Podcast appearances and mentions of catherine just

In this episode, Aleah interviews Los Angeles-based artist, photographer, and intuitive seer Catherine Just. Learn about Catherine's transformative journey from battling substance addiction at a young age to finding solace and expression through art. Catherine shares heartfelt stories of resilience, detailing how art school became a sanctuary where she could channel her struggles into creative energy. Her story is a poignant reminder of art's power to heal and how our past experiences can fuel our creative processes.Substance addiction is often closely related to love addiction and anxiety. For Catherine, meth was a way to finally feel deeply in love, to belong, to be at home, and to connect with other human beings. In the throes of a difficult experience, she heard a powerful voice inside her that showed her there was more to the life she was living. She believed that voice and never looked back. Today, Catherine is 36 years sober and thriving.Learn what made Catherine cling to her healing path, how she developed resilience, and the role her art played in her recovery. She will also share how she handles triggers and challenging moments, and offer advice for people in similar situations. How do we ask for help in our darkest moments?To explore more about Catherine's work and her upcoming classes, programs, or retreats, visit catherinejust.com, where you will find:Her free Masterclass starting today (with replay), "Bedtime Stories: Internalized Ageism, Sensuality & Sexuality," where she'll dive into how internalized ageism affects our sensuality and sexuality and how we relate to ourselves, using self-portraiture as a tool to look, become aware, and transform.Her 6 or 12-week upcoming class, "Sacred Medicine of Self-Portraiture" — an expansive, multi-layered experience of healing in ways you didn't know you needed.Follow her journey and daily insights on Instagram @cjust, where she shares her medicine daily.Are you loving this show?For as little as 3 dollars / month you'll allow me to continue this show with more support. Click here to get on my supporter team now. Important Links:Order my brand new book: How to find love that heals, available on all Amazon marketplaces (by Aleah Ava Simone Rüthemann)Want immediate support for the love challenges you're going through? Schedule your personal time with me now:Get two months of free access to Venus Academy—a magical vault of feminine arts of intuition, healing and embodiment where we cultivate and celebrate all things feminine dimension - special code for two months off: lovethathealsIs your attachment style secure, anxious or avoidant? Take my quiz now! Want to join my next high-impact, high-proximity female group healing portal? Find more information here:Looking for personal support? Apply now for my limited 1:1 Mentorship spaces (currently waitlist)Find more info at: https://aleahava.comWant to send me some love? Subscribe to my show: Addicted To Love Podcast on ItunesSupport the show

In 2022, more than 6 million people visited farmers markets across North Carolina. Today, we're talking with a team of people who are the driving force behind the North Carolina Farmers Market Network: Maggie Funkhouser, Catherine Elkins, and Nora Rodli. The goal of the North Carolina Farmers Market is to create and support a thriving network of marketplaces for the state's local food and farm products. The nonprofit network, which was recently awarded a USDA Farmers Market Promotion Capacity-building grant, will provide education, programming, and partnership development assistance to farmers market managers, including resources to support historically underserved populations. Interview Summary   I would like to take a moment to actually get to know you all a little bit better. Tell us a little bit about how you got involved in farmers markets. Catherine, let's start with you.   Catherine - Sure. I've been doing this for the longest, I suppose. I went with my mom many times to Amish markets in Pennsylvania where I grew up. She was not a very good gardener. But we could buy everything that she liked at the market. I also worked a bit at the Carrboro Farmers Market, and I then got an opportunity to work with the Morehead City Saturday Market, a one-year lifespan. And the Old Beaufort Farmers Market we started up the next year, that's now in its 10th year. That makes me proud. I liked that market a lot. Managed it for two years, and I'm still one of those devotees that go on vacation and have to look up the closest farmers market just to check out new stuff.   Maggie - Like most managers, I did not go to school to be a farmers market manager. It kind of found me, I guess you could say. I went to graduate school directly after undergrad for classical languages. Then when I moved back to the Triangle, I just sort of started getting involved more and more with local food. I worked in restaurants, I worked in coffee shops, and one time I worked in an artisan bakery; I managed a culinary garden, and I just kind of kept getting drawn into different parts of the community in our local food system in the Triangle. In 2019, I applied for and was offered a job at the Carrboro Farmers Market as the assistant manager. I worked there for about a year. Then in 2020, I took over as the manager, and I've been here ever since.   Nora - So, I actually come to farmers markets as a farmer. For the past 25 years, I've farmed in various places around the country, mostly New Mexico and Hawaii and now North Carolina. That has given me the ability to see and experience farmers markets in a lot of different manners, whether it be a small market or a large market, and urban versus rural settings. I feel like I am uniquely on board as a cheering squad for farmers markets.   Thank you. We all need a cheerleader on our side, so it's good to hear that. I really would love to ask each of you more questions about your past because there are some interesting connections that I hear. Catherine, the Marine Lab is in Beaufort, and I'm intrigued to know more about how those relationships develop. Maggie, I would love to talk more about your training as someone in the classics has influenced the way you think about this. I mean, this idea of food and agriculture is deeply within that literature, and so that's really fascinating. And, Nora, I just can't wait to learn more about Hawaii. But I can't do that right now. We have other things to focus on. However, if those answers come up in your other responses, please feel free. I'm intrigued to talk to you all a little bit more about the North Carolina Farmers Market Network. What is it and who does it serve?   Maggie - I'll kind of kick us off talking about the network a little bit, and maybe my colleagues can chime in. So, we incorporated this year as a 501 nonprofit under the name North Carolina Farmers Market Network. NCFMN, for short. That's our kind of alphabet-soup title that I might say really, really fast. But there had kind of been plans and thoughts to form a statewide network in North Carolina for a long time. We gained a lot of momentum in 2020 because in 2020 we started, with the help of the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association, the State Extension and RAFI, when the pandemic hit, we started having these weekly Zoom calls that were specifically for farmers market managers. The reason we started them in March 2020 was because we were all really, really unsure about what was happening and what was going to happen to the farmers market spaces. Many of our markets across the state were shut down. Many of them had a lot of additional regulations and policies and emergency protocols that were really hard to implement, especially if there were no permanent staff or volunteer staff or part-time staff. In my position, I'm lucky enough to be full-time, but many market managers are not. So, we started out as a rag-tag group of market managers that were just trying to stay open and operating in a really difficult time. We had weekly calls, and we went over different policies we had, different marketing techniques we were using to communicate to the public about our pandemic response. I really clung to it as a source of support during that time. Then over the next couple of years, we started meeting biweekly, then we started meeting monthly. We kind of realized that we had a lot to talk about and a lot to share. Our Zoom name was COVID-19 Calls for Farmers Markets. But what started out as COVID-19 Calls for Farmers Markets turned into resource sharing, professional development, learning things like grant writing, bookkeeping, managing conflicts. And last year we decided to make it official. So, we applied for our FMPP grant, our Farmers Market Promotion Program grant, through the USDA, and we were awarded it. And then we were on the path to nonprofit incorporation.   Maggie, that is really fascinating, and it's interesting to hear how a crisis of COVID-19 drew a lot of you together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like it was beneficial in terms of the work you were doing. And it may have also had some personal benefits - just being connected to other people who were in the same field. And you all were able to talk about how you were managing things. Did that take place? Was there more than just sort of, "Here's how to manage your books," or "Here's how to manage conflict"?   Maggie - For sure. The camaraderie was just incredible. Farmers market managers, it's kind of a funny position, and maybe Nora can speak to this a little bit as a farmer who sells at a farmers market, and maybe a different perspective about what a market manager does or the role they occupy. But we do a lot of different things. On any given day we can be planning special events, applying for grants, communicating with vendors, communicating with our boards. And so, to have connections, especially for me being in the Triangle where we have a lot of farmers markets, I had never really met their managers or interacted with them. And now we're total pals. It really was an opportunity for me to share experiences with people who have very similar jobs, and those jobs are often singular in their workplace.   Nora, since she called you out, I'm interested, from a farmer's perspective, I would love to hear your thoughts, and, of course, Catherine, please feel free to join in.   Nora - Yes, I'd love to share. I feel like before meeting this network, and I've only been with them since April, I have to admit that as a farmer, I showed up at the farmers market and thought that's when the market began and didn't really think much beyond who was behind making it happen until I got there. And I've learned and been humbled by how much of an oversight that is. I definitely am guilty of not appreciating all of the work that goes into making sure that farmers markets happen. And I've spent the last six months learning about all the details of things that market managers deal with that farmers have no idea. And it's similar to farmers, maybe, in that way where we wear many hats. And so, I feel like I've learned, one, to appreciate them, but, two, there's not a lot of collective appreciation by anybody that goes on for farmers markets managers. And so, I think that by them grouping together every month because it can be such a siloed experience, it just seems like this really beautiful connection where, when you do your job well as a market manager, there's nothing, like no one says a thing. No complaints mean success. And so, here's a group that can give you compliments, you can empathize with one another, and know that you have each other's back. It's just a beautiful network.   Catherine - I think also what we noticed was that many times the overlap and potentially collaborative nature amongst managers is really great. These are not competitive people. They have secrets to share about what their special events might be, and not everybody has to hold Tomato Day on the same day. Or they may know people at City Hall that are the right people for this kind of permit or may as well share these things. They're all on our same perspective. And plus, that, we found that there were many other states that had networks or associations. So, we could follow them, especially during a period of crisis and near panic as COVID was. Everybody's just glued to their screens looking for information. And the states that had robust networks or associations already in place seemed to be able to help their markets succeed really well.   Thank you all for sharing this. It's really fascinating to learn about the development of this farmers market network and to know that there are other farmers market networks in other states, and it's great to hear of the learnings that you all gained from each other within the state and across states. So, this is really helpful. I've got to ask this question. I mean, it sounds like what drew you all together was the pandemic and thinking about how to navigate policies. Now that, I pray, we're through the hard part of COVID, and I say that cautiously, what are things that are on your agenda now? What do you hope to see be different?   Maggie - Catherine kind of spoke to this. Even though farmers markets are separate spaces, our market is within 20 miles of four other farmers markets. But the goal is not to compete with them. The goal is to lift up farmers markets as accessible community spaces and viable spaces for our farmers to make direct sales. So, for us, we really want to strengthen that local food ethic across the state of North Carolina. Because selling at farmers markets is an extremely viable way that small-scale farmers can succeed in North Carolina. And so, if you have a market manager that is leaving after six months because they're overwhelmed or they haven't received a lot of institutionalized knowledge or training or what have you, then that's where we can step in and say, "We have training, we can give you information, we can share resources, we can provide a network to you." Our big, impactful goal that we're working for is having a statewide nutrition incentive program, and I think Virginia calls theirs Fresh Match. Many statewide organizations have Double Bucks, Fresh Bucks, Market Match, whatever you want to call it, where they provide a dollar-for-dollar match for nutrition incentive programs like SNAP EBT or the Farmers Market Nutrition Program. And as of right now, farmers markets in North Carolina, most of them are fending for themselves. There are a few regional systems like in the western part of the state, the Triangle area farmers markets, Mecklenburg County farmers markets, that are working together. But we really want to have a statewide network where farmers markets across North Carolina can offer nutrition incentives to shopping at farmers markets.   Thank you for that. I'm really happy to hear how you all are working towards addressing policy questions and thinking about who the farmers markets can better serve by using programs like Double Up Bucks or the nutrition incentive programs, and seeing that work across the state. Because there are some significant differences in economic realities across the state. So, that's wonderful to hear you all are doing that work. I'd just like to take a step back, and I'm going to go back to you, Maggie. Can you talk to us about the role of farmers markets in communities? What role do they play?   Maggie - We talk about this a lot in the farmers market space. Because from the outside, farmers markets are spaces of commerce. They're a space where farmers can get together. Maybe you don't realize there's a level of organization behind it. But, in reality, anyone who is a regular at farmers markets knows that they are not just a space of commerce, that they are a community space. They are a third space, and an opportunity to socialize, meet your local farmers. And at our market, we were founded in the late '70's, we have customers who have been coming to our market for decades. They've known some of our farms for years, they've seen them get married and have kids, they've seen their loved ones pass away, they've seen them go through hardships, and seen them go through multiple recessions at this point. It's a really unique space, especially in this kind of era where there is an increasingly globalized economy where you can order one-day shipping for everything you need. To be able to meet the person that's growing your food or baking your bread is really unique. Many farmers markets promote the sense of community, and engagement between consumer and producer. A lot of us offer different types of community programming to kind of bolster that. So, things like kids' activities, encouraging healthy nutrition and things like senior days, educational events. Catherine named Tomato Day, which happens to be a very big day for us. And we've kind of touched on Double Bucks and food access, and that's another real priority for a farmers market. And, also, I didn't mention this when we were talking about the pandemic, but we were looped under grocery stores as essential for the state of North Carolina. And so, that kind of maybe speaks to how we feel, and I hope others in our community feel about farmers markets as well.   Wow, that's really fascinating. I didn't appreciate that farmers markets were treated like grocery stores as essential workers. That's really interesting. I'm intrigued, Nora and Catherine, what about your thoughts about the role that farmers markets may play in communities?   Catherine - Well, Nora would agree with that. The farmers are their own community, and they appreciate the opportunity to meet each other across the aisle, across the tables. "How's things going on your farm?" "Let me tell you about what's happening at my place." Farming can be a really solitary profession. There's many, many hours spent as just one person on a tractor, one person planting seeds, one person weeding. To have the camaraderie and the opportunity to meet up with your peers, that's pretty powerful on a Saturday morning. It is a lot of time sometimes to give up. The better farmers markets, of course, are the ones where you're talking directly to the farmer. How did they prepare this soil, or are they certified naturally grown? What does that mean to them on their farm? You get to actually have that conversation with a client, but only in person. So, it's a big deal for the farmer.   Nora - Yes, for sure. I can speak to that. I feel like most farmers don't have a lot of neighbors close by, and we can feel isolated in our own little work bubbles. And so, a farmers market is the social event of the week for us. Many markets that I have been a part of will have a standing lunch afterwards, and it develops into friendships that are really deep. I also wanted to just mention, from the farmer perspective, the value of meeting customers who are purchasing things from me and my farm, from others and their farms. It's not just meet your farmer, but for us it's like meet your customers. And it's a chance to explain something, like why you're excited about the diversity of such and such crops, why it matters. There's only so much you can put into website descriptions and social media, and it's just two-dimensional. Having the opportunity to meet and share space, the farmers market is so essential, I think, to not only understanding our food and where it comes from and how it's produced, but increasing our value of it in this day where it seems like food is sometimes just an afterthought of convenience.   I love the idea of the farmers market being sort of like the water cooler for farmers to get together and swap stories and share in each other's joys and probably also frustrations and pains. I can imagine how that's a wonderful space for folks. I remember watching a farmers market, I was staying in a hotel, and this is how I can say it. They were there at five in the morning, and I was like, "What's all this noise?" And it was great to see all of these farmers, one, setting up, but then I could see some of those exchanges. I had a sense of like there was a real community there. So, that's wonderful. And this makes it clear that these farmers markets can be really beneficial for farmers. I'm interested to hear a little bit more on how farmers markets are supportive, if at all, to the financial wellbeing of farmers? Or is this just a labor of love? Is it just the water cooler?   Nora - I feel like they're super economically important, and I think where I would say most importantly is as new and beginning farmers who are establishing their businesses. It is an extremely unique place to be able to try out different produce offerings and pricing. It's like you're practicing everything before you're able to have a reputation to secure accounts that might be other versions of direct or indirect marketing. And so, farmers markets offer you that opportunity to gain instant feedback: "Did that sell, yes or no?" "What were the questions?" "What were the gripes?" It gives you constant feedback to be able to refine as you grow your business and make decisions for the coming years. That's not only important as a farmer independently, I was also involved with some farmer-training programs, and we really highlighted farmers markets as giving that opportunity.   That's a great insight, that it's almost like a farmer incubator. It helps farmers test out different marketing means.   Nora - 100%, yes.   I would love to hear from some of the others. Catherine, Maggie, what are your thoughts about the financial benefit of farmers markets?   Catherine - We keep talking about it, how it's so perfect for the farmer or for the producer but think of how perfect it is also for the shopper to keep coming to a place that's always trying to reinvent itself in serving better and better and better food. My local brick-and-mortar store doesn't do that. There are different priorities.   I am an economist. I am just loving this idea of price discovery in the market and the idea that each of these markets are different and they're idiosyncratic and there's something new happening. This is actually worthy of further study, but that's another conversation for another time. So, thank you for sharing.   Catherine - I think you know probably better than most that farming is not a get-rich-quick scheme by any means. There are many examples of people, friends, who are pouring their heart and soul and muscles and fingernails into growing better and better, and they have to love it. They don't usually pay themselves terribly well.   Maggie - Many of our farmers sell at multiple markets, and it's kind of funny to hear things like: "Oh, I can always sell my cucumbers at the Carrboro farmer's market, but I can never sell them at another market." It's so funny to think about how the different farmers markets are literally different economic markets, where our customer base has like their own kind of idiosyncratic interests, and maybe they love persimmons or something like that. At our farmers market, we're definitely an incubator farmers market.   I want to ask one last question. And I say it's last, and we will see how the conversation goes. Because this has been really a delight. For market managers and farmers, what does the North Carolina Farmers Market Network have to offer them? Catherine, why don't you begin?   Catherine - Just like seeing your friendly farmer neighbors in person on Saturday morning, it's also really fun and informational, educational, all those great words, to Zoom with the managers. We have a first Thursday of the month Zoom call to the managers who are members. We have a range of topics prepared. We have space for updates on legislature. We had somebody come in from Senior WIC to help us learn what they're doing for us. How to collect data from your farmers markets is really helpful for boards and municipalities and us as the network. We're going to be asking for data. How to send out a census. What's everybody doing for the kids programs that's new, haven't been tried before? So, that Thursday morning event has a good deal of value, we think. We also have a connection to Farmers Market Network, and we'll be able to offer discounts on insurances, I believe, as well as membership and access to their resource library, which is immense. We also wanted to make sure you knew that we were seeing other states like Virginia teach their managers best practices and have a market-management certificate, something we hope we can offer someday. We certainly will be hosting regional meetings to get to know the managers better. We have five regions around North Carolina. That'll be pretty educational. That'll have a program for it.   Nora - I would love to add to Catherine's description that in addition to being a place where farmers market managers come together, we're also a network that invites others who work in the food system and who are passionate about the same issues to become members. They're valuable voices to include in every conversation. For example, just the other week I sent out something, kind of a newsletter. I had some questions that market managers had been asking me about food-safety regulation issues for farmers markets, which comes up a lot. And in the responses, others who worked with NC State or Extension roles, piping in saying, "I have a good resource for that," or "Here's the answer." And I feel like the value of bringing together all these voices in the same room is huge.   Maggie - I love all of what Catherine and Nora were saying. You know, it occurs to me also that there are over 200 farmers markets in North Carolina. Supporting farmers markets is part of supporting North Carolina's agricultural fabric. It's part of supporting small-scale family farms, organic farms, spray-free farms. So, I think that if we can assist with marketing those farms and farmers markets, that feels very important and impactful to me. And then I also want to draw us back to education for larger stakeholders and maybe government organizations about some of our statewide initiatives like Double Bucks. I think that's where we can really offer a collective kind of impact, where maybe individual farmers markets don't have the capacity to work with larger stakeholders, but as a network we can come together and we can really have a much broader impact.   Bios   Maggie Funkhouser is currently serving as the interim Board Chair of the North Carolina Farmers Market Network. She is the Manager of the Carrboro Farmers' Market in Carrboro, NC, where she has worked since 2019. She was raised in North Carolina's Triangle and has worked in local food systems there for many years, including as an educator, gardener, baker, and foodservice industry worker before coming to the farmers market. She carries with her a love of writing, language, and storytelling from her classical education background, and she is drawn to foodways stories and oral histories. She is especially interested in the intersection of food access and farmers markets, as well as learning more about making farmers' markets inclusive, equitable, and accessible community spaces.  Catherine Elkins has long enjoyed the spirit and joy of farmers markets, starting in Pennsylvania visiting several Amish markets and continuing in North Carolina after moving to Chapel Hill. She volunteered for many years at the Carrboro Farmers' Market, and then after retirement, stole many of their successful strategies when designing, starting and managing the Olde Beaufort Farmers' Market. She also assists with the Carteret Local Food Network's Mobile Market which operates a red short school bus tricked out to serve many low income and senior communities in Carteret County with the freshest, most local produce and farm products from Carteret farmers. Nora Rodli is the Program Coordinator for the NC Farmers Market Network.  She brings over 25 years of agricultural experience from working as a farmer and with farmer training and education.  She also has a healthcare background as an advanced public health nurse (APHN).  Currently living and farming in Boone, NC, Nora is passionate about the primary roles that local food and increased access to local food can play in health promotion and disease prevention, resilient local food systems and vibrant inclusive communities.

In this Episode I'm sharing ways to handle it when you get triggered by people, situations and life challenges. I give you step by step suggestions that I use and I offer you an opportunity to join 300 of us as we shift our attention from the default setting of what's not working in our lives to gathering evidence of what's going right. You can join us by signing up for the wait list to The Daily Miracle HERE. I'm Catherine and I'm a full time artist, photographer, activist, writer, healer and coach with 36 years of sobriety (8/18/1987) and the proud single parent of my son Max who has Down syndrome. I apprenticed with Miguel Ruiz, author of the Four agreements and am certified in NLP, Emotional Freedom Techniques(EFT Tapping), Hypnosis, TIME techniques, The trauma of Money and Energy Work.  My Artwork acts as sacred totem awakening and connecting you with the truth that lives in between the words.  My Sacred Healing and Coaching Sessions weave a dynamic blend of sacred healing work, mindset and expansion coaching, somatic and subconscious reprogramming techniques together offering a unique opportunity to release what's holding you back, anchor into your own deep wisdom, become fully self expressed in your creativity and take bold confident actions that activate your dreams and truly thrive.  I offer Sacred Sabbaticals in France and Spain merging creativity, with intuitive healing and tranformational coaching. Get on the email list at catherinejust.com for more information.    Join the Daily Miracle Wait List   Website : catherinejust.com Coaching : catherinejust.com/coachingsessions Courses : catherinejust.com/mentoring2022 Fine Art Portfolios : catherinejust.com/art-portfolios Art as Activism : catherinejust.com/maxandmama Follow me on Instagram : instagram.com/cjust

In this episode, I have the pleasure of interviewing a fellow sober creative, Catherine Just. Catherine's story is remarkable, inspiring, and is sure to leave you wanting to hear more. Catherine is a mom, an incredibly talented artist (you guys... her work has made it to the cover of National Geographic in two countries!!!), she's a volunteer with the Sober Mom Squad, and at the risk of sounding super dorky... is seriously just one of those really cool individuals you hope to have the chance to be friends with. Enjoy Episode 10!Ways to connect with Catherine:Instagram: @cjustWebsite: https://www.catherinejust.comWant to learn more about the Sober Mom Squad?Website: https://www.sobermomsquad.comInstagram: @sobermomsquadTo donate and/or learn more about the show head to: www.decidedlydry.com If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, leave a 5-star review, and tell your friends about Decidedly Dry. Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/decidedlydry)

This week on the #3UNIQUES Podcast, Catherine Just, is an artist, photographer and spiritual guide living in Los Angeles. After getting sober from a meth addiction at the age of 18, she went to art school and studied conceptual photography, film, and video that transformed her life. She then apprenticed with many spiritual teachers including Miguel Ruiz, Toltec master and author of the 4 Agreements. She has 34 years of continuous sobriety, is a full-time artist, and weaves her creative practice and Spiritual Wisdom into her Photography Sessions, Her Photography as Medicine Online Courses and Mentoring and in her artist's retreats in France. Her work has been published on the cover of National Geographic, inside O magazine, and is shown in galleries internationally. When Catherine isn't traveling with her cameras she's home with her 12 year old son Max, who happens to have Down syndrome. She's working on creating the Max Harrison Foundation - teaching marginalized communities how to use photography as their own medicine and to form deeper bonds of connection within humanity. Website Instagram   Thanks for listening to the #3UNIQUES podcast this week. Don't forget to leave a comment and star-rating. Here's are 3 ways to Discover Your #3UNIQUES: 1. Take the #3UNIQUES Leadership Quiz  2. Check out my online course on Stepping Into Your #3UNIQUES 3. Follow #3UNIQUES on Instagram.

Today my guest is Catherine Just. Catherine has been sober since 1987 and has made her living as an artist and photographer leading art retreats and also has online courses. Catherine is a single mother of 12 year old Max who has Down Syndrome and the host of a podcast called “Into the Deep with Catherine Just” and the host of Sober Mom Squad. Catherine's amazing story is about overcoming her addiction to crystal meth and how she created a wonderful life in her art. Her photography has been on the cover of National Geographic and inside O Magazine.You can reach out to Catherine here:http://www.catherinejust.comCheck out Catherine's retreat in Paris in 2022: http://www.catherinejust.com/parisretreat2022Book recommendation:The Toltec Path of Recapitulation: Healing Your Past to Free Your Soul – Miguel RuizInstagram @cjust  ******************************************************************Ready to make changes in your career and personal life? Learn more about my Recovery@Work program, by clicking HERE.Thank you for listening and being a part of a supportive community to help people with solid recovery step into leadership. If you liked this episode, please don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the show HERE through Apple Podcasts, or HERE if you're an Android user, and help us spread the word about this inspiring free content. Take the Quiz HERE to find out what animal best represents your leadership style and get on the mailing list so you don't miss an episode! Check out our FREE resources here: Emerge Leadership Academy  Are you ready to create your best future in a job that is blended to your purpose on earth?Schedule a free consultation with me today and let's get you going again:https://Maureenrg.youcanbook.me  Connect with me:Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/emergentleadership/Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/emergeleadership/Twitter -https://www.twitter.com/mrgmentor/LinkedIn -http://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenrossgemmeYouTube -https://www.youtube.com/emergeleadershipacademy

Catherine Just is an artist, photographer and activist living in Los Angeles. Her work has been published on the cover of National Geographic, inside O magazine and shown in galleries internationally. Her work investigates what lives in-between the words and underneath the surface of all forms of relationship. She considers her art process a sacred practice of listening to energy. Catherine got sober from a meth addiction at 18 years old on August 18th, 1987. She went to art school and studied conceptual art, apprenticed with Miguel Ruiz, the Toltec teacher and author of the Four Agreements and believes creative expression is a portal to spiritual connection. Catherine offers limited edition prints of her artwork and travels internationally for her photo sessions using large format film cameras. She leads artist retreats in France and teaches courses online using art as a tool for transformation. Catherine mentors artists and entrepreneurs globally. She's the proud mama of her 12 year old son, Max Harrison, who happens to have Down syndrome. She's currently developing the Max Harrison Foundation. The first program will teach kids with Down syndrome how to use cameras for self expression.

Take this action and make change happen now. Ready to take your life to the next level? Check out my https://lanekennedy.com/shop/group-coaching (coaching program) and the https://lanekennedy.com/release (retreat )that I am leading up with Catherine Just! So much goodness for you. Are your Nerves on end and want to try something different? Grab my new bestie, the ApolloNeuro band. Use this https://apolloneuroscience.pxf.io/c/2916557/916509/12331 (link) for 10% off your purchase! Um yes to that! This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

I love when I meet other women in long-term recovery from addiction. Catherine Just has become my new bestie, and I hope you'll fall in love too. She is a wealth of knowledge and a gentle soul. Catherine and I have come together to create a retreat for the holiday season and beyond, check out https://lanekennedy.com/release (Release and Awaken.) We are here for you. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

On the newest episode of We Chat Divorce we're joined by Renee Bauer, Esq. to discuss The Art of Re-Invention – Divorcing Without Shame. Renee Bauer is an award-winning divorce attorney, author, podcast host, and champion of finding your Happy Even After. She boldly educates and inspires women about divorce so they can move into their next chapter with confidence. She is the creator of The D Course, an online educational course designed to help save thousands of dollars in legal fees. Renee is regularly sought out by media to comment on trending family law issues. She is the Founder of Happy Even After Family Law located in Connecticut.    Learn More >> https://msreneebauer.com   Connect with Renee Bauer, Esq. on LinkedIn >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/rbauer1/   The We Chat Divorce podcast (hereinafter referred to as the “WCD”) represents the opinions of Shanahan, Chellew, and their guests to the show. WCD should not be considered professional or legal advice. The content here is for informational purposes only. Views and opinions expressed on WCD are our own and do not represent that of our places of work.  WCD should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever.  Listeners should contact their attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular legal matter. No listener should act or refrain from acting on the basis of information on WCD without first seeking legal advice from counsel in the relevant jurisdiction. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on WCD.    Unless specifically stated otherwise, Shanahan and Chellew do not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned on WCD, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third-party materials or content of any third-party site referenced on WCD do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of Catherine Shanahan or Karen Chellew.    WCD, SHANAHAN, AND CHELLEW EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST.     Karen: Welcome to We Chat Divorce with Karen Chellew, legal liaison and Catherine Shanahan CFA co-founders of my Divorce Solution, the company that delivers the quintessential financial blueprint to couples facing, or going through the divorce process. This blueprint, known as the MDS financial portrait, establishes the foundation and options and individual or couple would need to make clear financial decisions when considering divorce. Each podcast, Catherine and Karen, sit down with divorce professionals and other individuals who provide insight and Frank discussion about real people, real situations, and real divorce. Welcome to We Chat Divorce, Catherine and I are so happy today to welcome Attorney Renee Bauer to our podcast. In this episode, we're going to discuss the Art of Re-invention - Divorcing Without Shame. But first let me take a couple minutes to introduce Renee. Renee Bauer is an award winning divorce attorney, a published author, and founder of the family law firm Bauer Law Group. Renee's insights are sought after by local, national, and international media outlets, podcasts, and conferences, where she speaks on co-parenting blended family dynamics, relationships, and the art of reinvention as an accomplished litigator. She boldly educates and inspires women to reclaim their right to happiness through her online course, The D Course, love that and her podcast Happy Even After. Welcome Renee. Renee: Good morning, Ladies. How are you? Catherine: Good. We're so happy to have you, not only because of your expertise, but for your enthusiasm that you bring to a very difficult topic basically. ou know, you've been a divorce attorney for so long, and now you found the courage to talk about your own experiences with divorce. What gave you that courage to do that? Renee: Yeah, so, you know, it was really, really difficult. And for most of my career, I showed off in the way I thought a lawyer was supposed to show up, you know, all buttoned up and I was putting on an act and I would go into court and represent my clients and do the job that I thought I was supposed to do. But when I got home from at night and I kind of stripped away the suit in, in the act, it was, I was like a broken version of myself because I never talked about not just one divorce, but two divorces that I've had. And because I was filled with so much shame and I really had no intention of talking about it. I thought this was just something I was going to keep to myself forever and kind of just live with it. And one day a good friend of mine had started a podcast and she said, “Hey, I want to have you on as a guest. And I'm going to bring some sushi over, we'll have a couple drinks. I'm going to ask you questions.” And at that point I didn't listen to podcasts. I was just like, okay, like, I'll answer some questions for sushi. I can do that. And then she came over, we ate a ton. She clipped the mic on me. And for the first time ever, I spoke about my divorce and she asked these questions and I actually answered them. And when that podcast episode dropped, I was inundated with messages and emails and DMS from other women who said, that was my story too. Thank you for sharing. One woman said she sat in her hotel room and just sobbed because she never, she felt so alone during her divorce. And here she was listening to someone else talk about what they were going through. And at that point I knew I needed to stop being the buttoned up version of myself and really strip away those filters and start sharing my real story and start being vulnerable, which is so hard to do as, you know, a type A perfectionist of just really showing up and saying, hey this is me. This is what I went through. And it's definitely been a process, but it has been so rewarding because I've  just connected with so many people that way. And I've heard so many incredible stories and was inspired to start my own podcast because of that.   Catherine: You know, it's great that you say all of that because we talk about what it does for the other women, you know, the three of us developing through them or to the other side, right. So we know where they, where they are currently probably. But when you tell your own story and I've experienced this myself, you know, that vulnerability is very hard to do. But when you do it afterwards, you really you're healing yourself further. You know, you realize that there is still more healing. We all need to always improve. So when sharing your story, not only is that woman's sobbing in her room feeling a sense of relief because she realizes she's normal, but then I bet you went home too, and you probably shed your own tears saying, wow, I let that out. It's like something I was hiding from and it's okay. Right. Is that how you feel? Yeah. And, you know, especially the second divorce, like that was just such a moment of embarrassment and almost humiliation like the marriage was in, I was in and out of it so fast before like a season was up, but there was so much shame from that one and, you know, coming out the other side in inch and I, I you're right. You're completely right. I'd never really healed from that. Like I was still holding onto it and now I talk about it so much. And so frequently as just something that has just happened, there's no emotion attached to it. It's like, all right, it's just part of my story. And it allows me to do the work that I do now. It taught me to be a better partner and spouse for my current husband now, because I really learned from, from that. And, you know, if you, the more you talk about it, the, the more detached you are as if this is something that's so substantial and so impactful to who you are as a person. And it becomes so much less than that. And it's just, okay, this is just one chapter in my book is really, really thick. So I'm going to turn the next page, but you're completely right. The more we talk about our stories and share them there is just this healing process that happens for the person who's listening to that. And the person who's actually speaking it. Karen: Yeah. Renee, were you in the attorney during your divorces where you practicing family law attorney? Renee: Yeah. And you know what, there's the embarrassment of having to go into court and go into the courtroom on the day that I was getting divorced and standing there amongst the judges that I regularly practice in front of and some colleagues you know, that was so much shame there, which is crazy because it's like, why. You know, I do this every single day. Why was I so attached to this? And you know, there's so many reasons for that - generational upbringing and you know all of the societal upbringing that what we're taught about divorce. So even though I can work in that space and help other people through it, when I was going through it myself, it was just, you know, I got brought back to those moments of being a child and, you know, learning about friends whose parents were getting divorced or hearing my own parents talk about divorce and, you know, just, just whatever relative said. And just those things that you brought up thinking and attaching to that word. So yeah, it was, it was really, really difficult. And there was such a a difference between what I was doing in my work every single day and my personal life. And it wasn't until those two blended that I really stepped into who I am, what I was meant to do. And just in complete alignment with my life. Like there was definitely a disconnect before that time. Karen: So did they blend, or did they collide? I'm just wondering. Renee: It's all semantics. You know, I think that it was a collision at first and now it blends. I think that, you know, there was some was so much resistance at the very beginning and even my current husband and I like had to sit down and have a conversation about me speaking and being so public about it in a way that I never had before, because it was so personal. Like I kept everything to myself and now I was thrusting our family kind of into the social media world and speaking about it and sharing things, never sharing things about the exes. Cause that's not what it was about, that doesn't help you heal, but just short of sharing about our life in my journey. And so there was some resistance at the beginning because that was something my, my husband was uncomfortable with. He was like, I don't know about this. And I'm like, I get it. It's hard, it's hard for me, but you know, this is going to happen and we're going to do it. And now it's going to get easier each day and now it's, you know, he's totally comfortable with it. So there's definitely the collision at the very beginning and now it's blended beautifully. Catherine: Oh, that's awesome. You know, and I think a lot of shame comes from a lot of guilt, you know, as our generation, we're all in the same generation or actually we might be a little older than you, but you know, we're, we're expected to play our role and play it perfectly. And we're expected to do so many different things perfectly. And not only are we expected by others, but we expect it of ourselves a lot of times. And so we feel so guilty about not being able to, you know, meet up with the expectations of staying married forever or the shame as you say, getting divorced the second time, because it just didn't work out. Why do we carry all that guilt and shame on ourselves? You know, it's not until you get into your fifties that you start releasing some of that where, you know, it just doesn't matter. You know, the twenties and the thirties and the forties are just about sometimes almost everybody else, but yourself and that's what needs to change. You know, we don't need to be, feel shameful or guilty because our marriage didn't last as long as it was supposed to, by the guidelines that are put out there. You know, I don't say my marriage was a failure. You know, I was married 20 years. That's what the person, 23 years, I just say it lasts as long as it was supposed to, you know, and I think we need to change the mindset and the dialogue on how we treat others, you know? And when we look at somebody who's a divorcee, you know, so it's okay. You don't have to say, I'm so sorry for you. You know, you can say congratulations for moving forward with getting through that. Yeah. Renee: Yeah. And it's not contagious. It's like, you know, you say that you're divorced and you know, some reaction is like, oh, well, didn't, you want to try to make it work? Or, you know, oh, well, there's plenty of fish in the sea. And they kind of like, step back a little bit from you as if like they can catch it, but you're so right. And you know, what I think you said is so important is the guilt of walking away from something that just isn't good enough. Like it's okay to have to be married to someone who is a good person and not the right fit for you. And to be able to say, you know what, we're just not living in alignment. Maybe our values are different. Maybe would just adjust, it's come to completion and being able to walk away from that because there's something not something better that you're looking for, but it's just not the relationship that you want for yourself. And you walk away. Not because you're looking for there's someone waiting in the wings, but you walk away because you're choosing yourself. And I think that I, and I'm sure you guys hear it too, but there are so many women who will say, you know, my husband's a good person. He's a good father. And so what's wrong with me that I'm not fulfilled. And I think that that's, you know, there's so much work to be done there. And that's, you know, that was my first marriage. Like there was nothing wrong with it, but it wasn't, it wasn't a good fit. And, you know, he went on to marry someone who was his perfect match in every sense of the word. And so did I and you know, and it's, it's kind of like breaks my heart to think of people who stay and they kind of jam themselves into our relationship because they think that if, if, unless it's abusive or unless it's like really bad, then there's no reason for them to be unhappy. And that's where that guilt comes in because they feel guilty about wanting something different than what they have. Catherine: Just sad because we all change. You know, we hear a lot of people say, oh, our spouse says you change. Not the same person I was married to. That's why I want a divorce. You know? Well, of course we all change. You know, hopefully I change every day. I pray that I become a better person tomorrow. Right. So it's okay to change. And as you're saying, if over those years 20, and we have a lot of 30 year marriage is coming to us 20 years or five years, whatever it is, if your outlook has changed in life, listen, let the spice goes by so fast. That's okay. You don't have to feel guilty about it. You know, it is your right to be happy. And we see that a lot on the financial side, because there's a lot of shame and a lot of confusion and sadness or fear that they're going to leave this marriage. They don't have to take, they're not happy, but at least everything's taken care of because they don't understand it. And once they start getting the financial knowledge that they need, whether they have to go to work or not, it doesn't matter. But once they get that Renee, you should see their faces, you know, they just transform into, oh my gosh, I'm feeling a little bit more empowered. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know that information. You know, we always say, it's okay. You know, you did the best you could at the time you're doing it. But once you gain that kind of knowledge, some you get to move forward right. In the positive direction for yourself. Renee: Yeah. I have a client that I like to use as an example for exactly what you're talking about. And she was in a long-term marriage. Her husband did everything, paid the bills, took care of the house. And she had a really comfortable life. It was not a good marriage. It wasn't horribly bad, but it certainly was not good. And she would've stayed forever because she was afraid of what was going to happen on the other side. And so she was forced into this divorce situation. She knew she would have stayed married, had he wanted to. And she was so afraid of paying her own bills, taking care of the house and all of that. Having to go back to work full time. And it was about a year after her divorce that she reached out to me and said, I have never been so happy in my entire life. And I didn't even know that I was so unhappy until I was forced into this situation. And she said, she bought her house. She was paying her own bills. She was financially responsible. She was saving money. And, you know, she was just so happy that she was forced into this situation. And I'm like, that's you know, that's the example. That's the success story of just because you don't know it now, does it mean you can't learn it? And there's so much power when you start to really understand what money looks like and, and the finances and you take control of it. You're no longer just sitting back, waiting for things to happen for you. You become the driver and that's, you know, that's amazing. That's incredible. Catherine: That is incredible. And if you're listening, you know, that that woman took on a very courageous journey, but it was not easy. So a lot of people look at us, probably the three of us and many others that we talked to is I want to get to where you are now, you know, I'm 10 years out, right? So I want to get to where you are now, but I had to do that work too. You know, I cried every day for years, you know, I went through my ex saying to me, who has a better marriage than ours, ours is fine. Who, whose other marriage do you want? And I always said, it's not about the other people's marriage. It's about what I want, you know, the happiness I want. But it it's a journey to get through that. So if you're listening, give yourself a time so that you can be the success story of that woman as well, which is so exciting to hear. Renee: Yeah. And, and I think that that's so important too, is just to have some grace and allow yourself to heal and not jump into something else. Don't try to quick fix your emotions by jumping into another relationship. Like really give yourself that space that you can, and it's okay to cry. It's okay to miss your kids on the weekends. You don't have them. We all have gone through that, but you just continue putting one foot in front of the other and keep moving forward. And that's how you get out the other side.   Karen: I love that. So I see a tip here is give yourself space. What's some more tips that you have to help people divorce without shame, because I'm going to guess it's a high percentage of people that do have a significant amount of shame navigating this challenging process. Renee: Yeah. And so, you know, there's so many bad things about social media, but I think there's so many good things too. And I think that there are so many communities of people going through something similar and so many resources out there. So I'd say find a community that you feel comfortable in enjoying that. There's so many really amazing people doing this work and in this space and surround yourself with some, with other people who know what it's like, and they get it and they can say, I see you. I felt all of that attend events. Like the one that you put together that's a great place to connect with other women and make lifelong friendships. In addition to being inspired and excited about your future. And then just give yourself time. And like I said, don't jump into anything like it's, I think it's your initial reaction is to want to get some attention, want to mask the pain that you're feeling and you start dating before you're ready. And now you're just, you're covering up without actually healing. And so really before you jumped back into the dating world to make sure you're ready to do that, and you're doing it because you, you are ready to date, not because you're trying to fill the void to fill the time when you missed your kids. Catherine: Yeah. Do you think that's what you did and the second time around? Renee: Well, I actually did that right after my first divorce, I jumped into dating and that didn't work. That was not my second husband. Then there was time in between that. So, you know, who knows, who knows how many, what mistakes I made the second time around. You know, I think that that was just not giving the relationship enough space to let everything reveal itself. I think that that was just jumping too quickly into something and ignoring the red flags you know. Catherine: Love that Renee, not giving yourself enough space to let everything reveal itself. That is so powerful. And I think that we need to write that down and take that away because it's so true. You know, men and women, nobody wants to be lonely and everyone, and as we get older, everyone says, I don't want to be alone. I hear it from both sides, the men and the women. Right. So I always remember saying, you know, just because to my friends, I'm sitting here alone by myself. I'm really not lonely. Like I enjoyed watching the TV by myself. I enjoyed not having to cook for my kids finally for a night. You know, I learned to like embrace that and it really is cathartic. And it is something that we need, I guess it's the self care, right? Which is the best care that we need to start embracing, especially as women, because we're all, we're big givers and we're always taking care of something. But to take that time, even when you're going through the divorce to pause and look at what you need, you know, and give yourself the time to see what it is that you need from a companion, if that's what it is that you want.   Renee: And that's, that's exactly the takeaway that I have as to this day is because when I did create that time and really learned how to be by myself and do things that filled me up, it's something that I still crave. And even in a current relationship in married, it's still something that I make time for. And, you know, an example is I went to Vegas recently with my husband and he was traveling for work. And I spent the day kayaking down the Colorado river by myself. And it was, it was, you know, I don't need, I don't need someone else to be there with me. Like, this is something that just filled me up and it was that self-care. And it was being in nature and being by myself, it wasn't being lonely. It was doing something by myself. And you really, when you give yourself that space, you learn how to do that. And when you're comfortable being by yourself, you don't need to fit the type, fit someone in there. You will if you're with someone and it feels good and you're having fun and it's joyful, then that's fine. But when you start to see the red flags, you're able to walk away and say, you know what, this doesn't serve me. And I don't need you just to keep me company because I can keep myself company. Then I think that that's important is that you're really paying attention to those red flags. We all have had them in bad relationships. And when we've allowed them to linger a little too long, that's when you see the, the divorce or, you know, the relationship not work out. But it's taken some time to get there. So pay attention right at the beginning and you know, really dial into what those red flags feel like in your body and pay attention to them. And don't try to make excuses for them. It's, it's your gut instinct telling you that something just isn't right. And it's okay to walk away from that. Catherine: Yeah. I'd like to set up, I would like to set a challenge out there if you're listening to this podcast, because I do believe that with that self-care, you will release some of the shame and the guilt that you feel. So Renee, we heard that you just went kayaking in Vegas by yourself and really had a great time. So if you're listening, challenge yourself, what will you do this week today, this month to challenge yourself, to be by yourself and Karen, I think you and I will have to think of something too. I know Karen recently went out and I was so proud of her. I'm a little bit more of an extrovert. So I go out and do a lot of things, but Karen is more of an introvert, not in a negative way at all. I'm not saying that, but I said to her, go do pickleball by yourself. You don't need your friends all around you to go with ego due to a group that you don't know anyone. And she ended up doing that and she could talk about her experience. I'm not talking for her, but I will boast for her because she was the champion of a tournament that they had. And she would have never done that probably years ago, but found the courage to do it. And how did you feel after you did that for yourself? Like what kind of self-care was that? Karen: That was incredible because you are right. I am an introvert. And when I hear both of you talking about those things by yourself, I know for myself and for a lot of our clients, that's a really hard thing because, you know, for most of our lives, we're just around a lot of people. But I did take that challenge and I did sign up for a tournament. And so my first experience walking onto the courts was, oh, God, I don't know where to go. I don't know who to talk to. I don't even know if I'm in the right group here, cause you have to assign yourself a level to compete. So, you know, I just kept stepping up and asking questions and, you know, taking the next step and the worst case scenario I could walk away. But I never felt like doing that. I met some really great people and I had a really good time. So it was a great experience. So I do encourage anyone to just take small steps if that's your first step. Because we do have to do really hard things in our lives. And that piece of it is important, especially when you're in a life-changing situation, which divorce is. And we have lots of them to really know who you are inside. And I love that you encourage your clients and the people that are around you to do that because it is important. Yeah. So I have a question because you're challenging people to do hard things. That's can be a very hard thing from a self-care perspective, but when people are divorcing, they have to do really hard things from a tangible perspective, meaning make really good informed decisions for themselves and value themselves enough to make really clear financial and legal decisions. And sometimes it's really super hard because you're walking into a vortex of chaos. It seems sometime, and you don't know what's right and what's wrong and you're getting opinions from everybody. And sometimes you're you feel vulnerable and intimidated. So how much do you assign that as being as the art of reinvention, because going through divorce begins that art of reinvention. So can you talk a little bit about that? Renee: Sure. That's a great question. You know, I think that one of the mistakes that lawyers see clients make is the client comes in and says, okay, I hired the lawyer and now I don't have to do anything. And I'm going to let this lawyer do all of the work and speak for me. And I'm just going to follow the advice. And I think that that's a big mistake. There are lots of lawyers out there. Some of them do better jobs than others. Some have different value systems in terms of how they practice and whether they are pushing things to litigation or more settlement minded. And you really need to take control as a client of your own situation and become informed and ask the lawyer every step of the way, why things are being done or ask questions and not just allow or rely on the professional to tell you the way something is supposed to be done. Because at the end of the day when you sign that divorce agreement, you have to live with it. And if there's something you don't understand, or there's something that you absolutely hate, that's in there, then you need to be sure that that's being addressed before your signature goes on that page. And you know, we say lawyers say all the time that no agreement is perfect. And usually both sides are a little bit unhappy with the agreement, which is true, but you also have to start to prioritize what's important and have your goal lists. And you know, like what's the number one thing that's so important to you that you don't want to negotiate on, or it's more important for that piece than something else. So you can give up something else in order to get that. And you have to be the one to set those goals and not yet let your lawyer or any of the professional set them for you. So I think that the most important piece of it is educate yourself and ask, don't be intimidated or afraid to ask questions of the professionals and don't let any professional bully you into an agreement that you don't like. They're supposed to be working for you. They're supposed to be guiding you and counseling you and advising you of all of the, maybe the different variables if you pursue it in court or not, but you are allowed to ask questions and make sure you understand so that you're not just kind of being pushed into something that you don't like. So education and being a self advocate are the most important pieces. Karen: I love that you say that. Catherine: Sorry. Karen: Yeah, it is. I spend a lot of time with clients at the table with their attorney and other professionals and they do take that. It's almost a relief. Okay. It's in their hands. I'm good to go. And I'll say, well, now it's even more important that you're engaged because they're your advocate. They're not the boss. So they, they need to be directed by you. You come to the table and you, as an attorney, you need to know what do you want and why do you want it? And then you can do your job. And I think to your point, a lot of people don't understand that. And then they end up very confused and very frustrated. Renee: There's lots of lawyers that will just try to jam an agreement down their client's throat just to be done with it. And they, they won't listen to them or they won't recognize what their goals are in the hierarchy of those goals. And instead, they're just going to tell them that you need to do this because this is what's on the table and you're not going to get something better in court. And I think just having a better conversation, a more communication with your lawyer in order to head to, to get on the same page. So you both are working towards the same goal and a lot of times that doesn't happen. Catherine: Yeah. So even if you take pause and take on the challenge of doing something by yourself, for yourself, that might be the space that you need to get the courage to ask those really good questions or to listen to your gut. Women have a really good, strong gut reaction to things and look at the red flags and write those things down and take it to your attorney and ask those questions, you know, because you'll become more powerful by the more questions you ask. Renee: Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.   Catherine: Yeah. Karen: So Renee, do you have a final tip for everyone? I'm sure it may relate to your Happy Even After podcast or The D course. What would you like to leave with everyone today? Renee: I would say that you have to start turning inward to find solutions to the things that are keeping you up at night. So, so often what happens is someone looks at their acts and says, they're the reason for all of my misery. They're the reason I don't have enough money, or they might look to their lawyer and say, they're the reason that I, you know, I didn't get enough. And they're looking constantly for external answers, things that are keeping them up and are causing them concern. And when you flip that switch and you say, okay, what can I do to fix this problem? Or what can I do to make sure I have enough money to pay my bills? Or what can I do when I'm missing my kids, you're starting to provide your, provide your own solutions. And I think that is the key to coming out the other side of divorce, to thrive in past divorce and to really finding your happy even after is to stop blaming and looking back, stop looking in the past and just look forward and have the courage to rely on yourself and the strength to say, I am all that I need in order to make it out the other end. And because you have all of the power and you have everything you need inside of you, you just have to tap into it, believe in it. Karen: I love that. Absolutely. Okay. Renee, where should people go if they want to connect with you or learn more about you? Sure. Instagram is my favorite place to hang out. So you can find me there at Ms. Renee Bauer. And then from there, you can link up to everything else I have going on. Wonderful. Okay. Well, this concludes our episode on the art of re-invention divorcing without shame. Thank you, Renee, for a great conversation.   Renee: Thank you so much.

Paul McDowall and Catherine Clark were neighbors when they founded ClarkMcDowall, a 21-year-old agency that with “intelligence and imagination” architects growth for “visionary companies.” Originally starting with big clients Catherine “inherited” from her previous employer, the agency had to put in effort to bring on the startups and mid-size companies that keep an agency nimble, fresh, and entrepreneurial – where there is a higher chance of “getting stuff done.”  Paul says the agency's most productive relationships come with clients that want to think ahead and think differently, make changes and do something different, and push boundaries – that these companies have a “sophistication in the way they think, but also a progressive way of thinking about their own industry or their own business.” Catherine notes that the human side is important to the mix and that today's clients are far more savvy about marketing and innovation than they were even six years ago. Brand-architecting involves broad-scope innovation in such activities as creating new brands, amplifying “rising star brands,” and transforming legacy brands for visionary clients by changing brand strategy, purpose, or positioning. The agency's brand expression work covers verbal expression (naming/ messaging) and visual expression (visual ID, packaging, design across the whole ecosystem, and web, video, and social components). Catherine says, “Architecting a brand is really about getting into what it stands for and then really thinking about how that impacts in all the ways it expresses itself.” As an example of client work, Catherine talks about the agency's multi-year effort with the Oklahoma City Thunder NBA team; addressing such issues as – What is their purpose? Why do they exist? How do they uniquely do things? What is it they actually do? – and then thinking how that manifests in the organization's operations – a campaign, a tagline, player experience, how a new player is greeted . . . or about the arena itself and the experience of the arena. Paul extends the scope by mentioning that these things include the internal culture as well, “how they talk to each other” and “how they hire.” Although ClarkMcDowall is based in New York City, the 2020 Covid lockdown forced the agency to rethink its organization. Catherine talks about the tension that comes with change . . . and the agency's decision to “Just go hybrid and start building it.” Today, the agency uses different systems, different ways of hiring, and different ways of working than in the past . . . and has a strong focus on creating a work environment that is less transactional and more about people's lives. About 25% of the agency's 25 employees work remotely – across the country.  Catherine says all this change has come with some nice surprises (and these are quotes): The more we allow people to try to find their own rhythm and their own environment, the more we're able to retain them and get the best out of them. I feel like we're even truer to ourselves in our values. We've really doubled down on the way that we treat people, the way that we integrate into our community, some of the pro bono stuff that we're doing.  There's this weird thing that the more you innovate, in a way, the easier it is to be true to yourself. You have to change a lot in order to really notice that anchor that you have. Catherine and Paul can be reached on their agency's website at:  clarkmcdowall.com or on LinkedIn. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by a duo, Paul McDowall and Catherine Clark. They're both Founding Partners at ClarkMcDowall, based in New York City. Welcome to the podcast. PAUL: Thank you. CATHERINE: Thanks for having us. We're very excited to be here. ROB: It's very excellent to have you here. Maybe you could start off by telling us about ClarkMcDowall and about what it is that makes the firm unique. CATHERINE: We call ourselves brand architects. I guess we'll start there with the unique piece. Just to be tangible for everybody who might be listening in, that means we do a bunch of things. We create new brands, we amplify what we would call “rising star brands,” and then we transform legacy brands for clients that we would consider to be visionary clients who are really looking for some change. What does that mean? It means we offer services like brand strategy, brand purpose, positioning, architecture. We also do a lot of innovation work, as that is also part of architecting those brands. Finally, we do brand expression work, whether that's verbal expression like naming/messaging or visual expression like vis ID packaging, designing across the whole ecosystem, web, video, social. There's about 25 people in our agency. Our roots and our base are in New York City, but we are hybrid. We also have talent across the country. I think what makes us unique is – we phrase it as “intelligence and imagination,” and I'm sure Paul will jump in and add to that, but it's really born from the partnership that Paul and I have. I'm a strategist originally and Paul is a creative originally, and we both own 50% of this business. It's very much about the fusion of two sides of our business that are usually not seen in equal partnership very much in the agency landscape. PAUL: Yeah. We got to the intelligence and imagination – for a while we were talking about “we have strategy brains and creative brains working together,” and it sounded a little clunky. It also felt quite limiting as well. It feels as though creatives can't think and then strategists don't have a creative thought. It's just not true. The idea of intelligence and imagination is something that we do collectively as a team. It's not one team, one person owns that. It's everybody, whether it's the strategists, whether it's the creatives, but also whether it's our client experience team, whether it's our marketing team, ops team, whoever it is. That's how we think and how we approach life. It's a broader philosophy which has stood us in good stead for the last, gosh, 21 years, Catherine. CATHERINE: It's been a journey. PAUL: Yeah. Awesome journey. ROB: Congratulations on that alone. That's quite a journey. You mentioned building brand architecture. When someone goes to your website and looks at the range of brands that are on there, we see quite an array of impressive top-level name brands. How does that play out? I imagine you can talk about some of those brands that are on the site. What does brand architecture look like for one of those examples that we might see looking at the firm? CATHERINE: I could pick a couple of examples. Architecting a brand is really about getting into what it stands for and then really thinking about how that impacts in all the ways it expresses itself. One client we like to talk about a lot is the Oklahoma City Thunder NBA team. We worked with them for a number of years, really helping define their purpose, why they exist, how they uniquely do things, what it is they actually do, and then thinking about how that manifests in all kinds of ways. It could be a campaign, a tagline, some visuals. It could also be the player experience. How do you greet a new player when they show up at your team? Or it could be about the arena itself and what the experience is like. PAUL: Even their internal culture as well, how they talk to each other, how they hire. It's from the inside out. Sorry, Catherine. CATHERINE: No, no problem, Paul. This is our two heads thinking together, like we do. [laughter] So that's how we would talk about being brand architects. It's actually a little bit like an architect thinks about creating a building that is influencing the way people live their lives, the way they interact with each other, the way that building leaves a mark on the landscape. It's really bringing a lot of things together. Another manifestation of our work might be some work we did with Starbucks, restaging Evolution Fresh, which is their juice brand that was doing really well. They had this incredible, beautiful design, actually, that won some awards. But then the whole landscape changed around them. That's what happens when we get brought in to do brand transformation. It's like, “Hey, we've got this thing. It was doing great and now it's hit a wall.” We would help them from the get-go in terms of understanding, what is the problem? Who is your audience? How do we change the way you position yourself and tell your story? Then we're able to bring it to life. In that particular instance, it was mainly packaging. The packaging was their main source of communication; they didn't have any advertising. So that's where we applied all our efforts, into the visual expression, and it turned their business around. They went from major decline to double-digit growth. PAUL: They were getting delisted. Even from their own Starbucks stores, they were getting delisted. That's how dire the situation was. Through the work we launched, they were doing double-digit growth. They had the biggest growth I think they'd seen in the brand itself, and actually outpacing the category itself. So a pretty dramatic transformation. ROB: What was the timing of your engagement with Oklahoma City? Were you there right when they were moving and that transition? Was part of the brand design around the new team name? Or was it downstream from there? CATHERINE: Downstream. We came in at the Kevin Durant free agency time. I can't say too much about all of that, but you can imagine that that team was going through a lot of soul-searching in terms of what they stood for, and if that player was going to leave – which he ended up leaving – how do you make sure you define that team so that it has a real sense of purpose, regardless of the outcome they can't control? So we came in at that point and really helped them articulate what makes them different. And as Paul was saying, impacting their culture internally. They made this incredible bounce-back as soon as he left. And they're always changing and there's always players coming in, coming out. How, with a brand like that, do you help them to find what they stand for, agnostic of the players that might be there, knowing that the players are actually a huge part of the experience? So trying to create some stability and a sense of agency, if you like, for themselves outside of wins and losses and players. PAUL: I think it's interesting. They have a very progressive team way of thinking. I'm impressed with the GM, who we worked closely with and Catherine has a very good relationship with. He's super thoughtful about everything, not wanting to be just another sports team or thinking like another sports team. I think they're the folks that we do really well with, those clients that really want to push the boundary, thinking ahead – not just reflecting the status quo – and wanting to do something different, wanting to make a change, wanting to think differently, wanting to think fresh. There's a sophistication in the way they think, but also a progressive way of thinking about their own industry or their own business. We create wonderful, productive relationships with folks that are wired that way just because we're wired that way as well. CATHERINE: Just to build on that, a lot of agencies in our business are used to helping their clients narrow down their bull's-eye, target audience and all those good things. We've had to do the same thing over the years and say, “Hey, what kind of clients do we work best with?” Because you can't be everything to everyone. That's really been the thread: people who we consider to be visionary, who really want to do something different, transcend their category, push the boundaries, but at the same time have this very human side to them. We're a very casual agency in terms of how we present ourselves and how we work with people. So there's a real human side. We know we do better with clients that want that very personal, intimate relationship versus clients who are maybe looking for a big agency with lots of fancy style of working. We're in a category where there's lots of different people doing different things, and if you can really define your niche, you're more likely to be successful and be able to focus on that. ROB: Right. There's a big piece of the story there that I would like to come back to, because I think you look at a lot of the brands you've worked with, and I think a lot of agencies would look at the overall top-level brand and say that that brand is untouchable, that you really have to be a big holding company shop to engage with them. But I'm going to put a pin in that for a moment. I want to get back to the origin story a little bit. Clearly, you two teamed up and you're combining worlds of your own strengths. But how did ClarkMcDowall come to be in the first place? What's the origin story? PAUL: [laughs] This is a story that we actually didn't tell from the get-go because I think it would've scared our clients, but we were literally next-door neighbors, literally over the garden fence. Catherine was running the UK side of a London branding company and I was doing my own thing with somebody else. I was very dissatisfied; I was on the creative side/design side, very limited. Wasn't really allowed to ask a lot of questions. I'd inherit a brief and then respond to that brief. Catherine was on the flipside, doing all this incredible thinking with innovation thinking, strategic thinking, and then it would be mistranslated or turned into – just lost, just melt into the ether and never see what happened to it. We had a conversation one day – I think our spouse and partners were like, “The person next door, you should talk! They do what you do!”, whatever. And eventually we did. I remember Catherine sharing her insights. Catherine is extremely eloquent, as you can tell already. Very intelligent, bang-on. I just exploded and was like, “This is incredible.” It opened my mind to things. Likewise, Catherine, different side, “Here's a creative that thinks differently about the industry and is dissatisfied and doesn't just want to be a designer,” all those sorts of things. It was literally a meeting of the minds. It was happenstance. It was one of those magic moments in your life that is transformational. And I mean that in the biggest sense of the word “transformational.” Then we built the business from there and basically shared thoughts and insights. We started in the East Village because that's where we lived. As your audience will know, running an agency is a 24/7/365 job. We had babies at the time, or babies to come, so we wanted to stay close to our families. The human side, as Catherine touched upon, is super important to us, and recognizing that and trying to make it work for people. By the way, Catherine, jump in at any time. You've heard this story a thousand times. You don't need to hear me warbling on. CATHERINE: But you tell it so romantically. It's amazing. [laughter] I think what Paul's saying is incredible because we ended up having two girls, two boys, they were the same ages, they all went to school together. It became kind of like a family thing. The company never felt like a family business, but there was definitely a sense of community. We were very proud to have an office open on E 11th Street between A and 1st back in 1999. It was a complete scary neighborhood, and we were like, “This is where we live. We love it. We're doing it.” Our clients were a little freaked out at first, and then as soon as they got into our office, or past the front door, they were like, “This is awesome. I feel energized. I feel like I'm part of something.” I think we really stuck to who we were, and that's carried us all the way through. Then we ended up in various spaces on the same block. We couldn't really expand the space. At one point we had an apartment, we had a storefront, we had a studio, all literally on the same block. We called it our little village. That's how we grew. We started with some big clients that I'd inherited from my previous employer, Unilever – that then turned into Mars that then turned into other companies – just literally following people around. So we started really having what I would call big clients right from the get-go, and then over time actually had to work to try to get smaller clients – which is the opposite of maybe the journey a lot of other agencies take. They start with the smallest startups and then make their way up. We started literally with the big corporations and had to make an effort to go and acquire startups or mid-size companies that are actually really important to work with also, because they keep you nimble, they keep you fresh, they keep you entrepreneurial, and you have a higher chance of getting stuff out the door and published and all of those things. But it's been definitely a very organic journey for us. PAUL: Yeah. And it's not being afraid to evolve, I think. It's interesting because even after 21 years, we'll stop and do a brand refresh or want to choose our narrative or whatever it is, and we go back to those original core tenets, those values. Maybe the language around them changes, but the essence of those things, what we believe in, is still really true to who we are – this idea of being original, this idea of evolving and problem-solving and going with the times, this idea of having an optimistic outlook, because you have to in order to keep in business and keep going. The idea of community, the idea of taking care of people, nurturing people. Those things were baked in from the start. They weren't things that we made up. They're just true to who we are as people. I think that's something, if any of your audience are new business owners as well, really doubling down on what you believe in and your values and being brave and sticking to them. When you start off, you're a bit insecure. You think you need to be something else than you actually are. We had that, right, Catherine? We said, “Oh, we need to be like this agency,” and in the end it took a couple of years to be like, “No, people are buying ClarkMcDowall. They're not buying the other agency.” Then it was like, “Oh, we are who we are.” You embrace it more and you really go with it. That quirky little storefront we used to have or whatever it might be, it becomes part of you, and then that's what you build upon. ROB: It's really a key point. Maybe since you've made it through 21 years and probably continue to actually refine your authenticity – sometimes you think about building up layers; it seems like it's almost the opposite sometimes. It's peeling away the layers of what people made you think you were supposed to be and finding who you can authentically be. How have you figured some of those moments out? Because it's really, really hard when you think about the expectations that people have upon you when you say, “This is us, this is what we do. We're in the market.” CATHERINE: There's something about knowing your values. I think it was helpful that Paul and I met as people and shared values, so it's easy for us to return to, if you like, as opposed to maybe people meeting through a business lens. We just genuinely wanted to do work together and respected each other's ways of thinking. So there's a human side. I will say the tension comes when you want to change. For example, when 2020 hit, we were really quick to say – I think it was like April or something, a month or two after lockdown – “You know what? Just go hybrid and start building it. Whatever that means, we'll define as we go, but let's commit to that.” So we've changed in the last year and a half probably more ways of working than we've ever changed. Basically moving everything to Google, using different systems, different ways of working, having maybe 25% of the company remote. But somehow, I feel like we're even truer to ourselves in our values. We've really doubled down on the way that we treat people, the way that we integrate into our community, some of the pro bono stuff that we're doing. So there's this weird thing that the more you innovate, in a way, the easier it is to be true to yourself. You have to change a lot in order to really notice that anchor that you have. ROB: Have you hired in a particular secondary location, or has it really been anywhere, everywhere, or maybe just North American time zones? What's the range? CATHERINE: We're in North American time zones. We have had some team members go abroad for a month or so, and that's fine, as long as it doesn't exceed let's say the 5- or 6-hour time range. But in general, it's across the U.S. We have some people on the West Coast, which is great because we have some business over there as well. But there are some other people in places where we don't have clients. What we're noticing, though, is there's a fair amount of movement. Everybody's like, “Do I want to move?”, or they move and then they miss New York and they come back. I think what's been nice for people is that they've felt that they had the freedom to go and explore and not feel like, “I have to not move because we're going to have to go in the office next month” or something. We've allowed people to also discover what works best for them, and I think it's going to take a while to settle, because we're still in this very unexpected, volatile time. The more we allow people to try to find their own rhythm and their own environment, the more we're able to retain them and get the best out of them. That's our attitude. ROB: It's been an exciting opportunity. To your overall point, I think it can almost help when you're not trying to choose “Who's the best person we can find that wants to commute into the East Village?”, and instead you say, “Who's the best person that aligns to our values and needs who wants to work remotely?” It's a different question, and I think the numbers are bigger. The candidate pool is bigger. In our experience, at least, you can hire faster in a lot of cases. CATHERINE: Absolutely. We've also experimented with different hiring models, getting people on short-term contracts so that they're more willing to say, “I'm usually freelance, but I'm going to try to have this full-time experience for a period of time, but I'm not fully committed,” or people working part-time. I don't know that we've cracked the code yet, but we're very much in an open mindset around different ways to engage people, and that's been super successful for us. We've been able to attract people and retain people that maybe in the past it would've been like, they're not local, they don't want to work on these hours, and we might've passed them by. And actually, they've contributed tremendously to the business. PAUL: It's like constantly learning. Same with the space as well, like Catherine said. We gave up our lease. The timing worked out. We've got other pals who are big agencies who are locked into leases and they're like, “Gosh, what do I do with this now?” I guess we were in a fortunate position of being able to give that up, which means that we can experiment and we can learn and beta test. We keep saying we could never imagine – if you were to create an office from the get-go, there's no way you would put people in desks side by side, 9:00 to 6:00. You just wouldn't build it that way. So we're thinking about if and when we have the space – don't even want to call it an office, but what would that space be? What's its role, what's its function? How do we design around people? How do we design around the team? How do we design around people's lives? Because it's not just about work. It's not a transaction. I think work can often become, or has been in the past, a transactional relationship. We want to make it much more integrated and thoughtful in that sense. So that's the sort of experimentation. Do we have the answers? No, not at all. The same way Catherine said we don't have the answers on the hiring. But we're super open. We're not afraid of testing things, and we're not trying to be rigid because “That's the way it was.” It's, “What could it be?” And then we'll try to figure that out. ROB: It's fascinating that you were able after 20 years to hold the office lease even somewhat loosely. But I'm sure maybe because you've moved around so much, it's been possible to recognize that there will always be someone who will let you sign a lease when you show up with a signature in hand. But this moment is unique in what you can learn from it. We talked a little bit about some other lessons along the way around peeling those layers back, but Catherine and Paul, what are some other key lessons you'd say you've learned along the way that if you were rewinding 21 years, you'd tell yourself to consider doing differently on this journey? CATHERINE: Maybe I won't answer fully the doing things differently, but one thing that has been a big thing is how much brands have changed and how much our clients' needs have changed. For a long time – I would say for at least 10-15 years – I remember we used to do some work for a client, a big corporation, and you'd be educating them on this innovation process. They'd never done it before. Then six months later, you work with somebody else in the same company and they also don't know anything. The years would go by. I'm like, when are they going to figure out that they keep learning the same stuff? And suddenly, all of a sudden, I would say maybe five to six years ago, we started to see a shift where a lot of our clients became very sophisticated. They in-housed a lot more things, and all this stuff that we tended to have to educate them on, they know. What it means is you really have to make sure that you're adding value on top of what is basic 101 for everybody now. So the level of sophistication has really increased in the industry – which is great, actually. Different agencies are going to bring different things. For us, it's really about joining the dots. I think having a company that's owned both by somebody that comes from a creative background as well as someone who's coming from a business and strategy background has meant that we've created this culture where one doesn't trump the other. We don't have a design-led culture where strategists are post-rationalizing, or the opposite. That confluence of thinking, of different minds, is really, really rich. We find that harder to replicate in-house for clients just because they're not built that way. They're coming from a business perspective. So we're able to maybe crack things, join dots between things in ways that really add value, and we understand that process really well. But every agency is going to need to be finding how they add value over and above clients being much more educated. So if you ask me what we would do differently, I don't know if I have an answer to that other than just keep staying ahead and making sure that we're always attuned to what our clients really need and where the gaps are for them. PAUL: Yeah. I think about doing differently, maybe things to avoid is avoid limitations. Don't feel as though one has to behave and operate within a box. You can define that box yourself. I think there's more – well, not just you're able to do it; there's more need to do it, to really redefine what those parameters are. I think that is super important, whether you want to call it evolution or whatever it might be. And not just talking about services. That's a part of it, but how you do business is really important as well. And then going back to the transactional nature of business – and we see it with other agencies. I know great agencies. I'm not going to name anybody. They do fantastic work. But what we hear is they're still in a transaction with those folks. They have slots, they have people, they do the job, they go, they quit, they stay, whatever it is. They do great work. We believe that's really shifting and it's really putting the human being first. You need to craft a different kind of relationship with the folks that work for you and work with you, and putting those at the center, and then how do we build around those needs and how do we support those needs? Because if they're doing well and they're feeling fulfilled and they're feeling really good and energized, then your work product, what you do, your clients and your experience, is better as well. I think that's how we think about our business tool. ROB: It's healthy. Definitely, as you get the team in there and aligned, it really lightens the load as well as they become more capable. You don't have to always fill every hat that you've been wearing since the year 2000 or 1999. CATHERINE: Yes, that's definitely – and that's probably been our biggest challenge, getting to a team that is really empowered and that works well together. I look back over the years; we've had incredible talent, but it takes a lot of time and effort to get to a place where you can look at your leadership team and the rest of your talent pool and go, “Whoa, what an amazing bunch of people, and they work really well together.” Actually, we have an all-female leadership team at the moment, which is amazing, and they're really empowered. We have a Head of Client Services, a Head of Creative, a Head of Strategy, a Head of Operations, and a Head of Growth, and they have incredible relationships with each other. A number of those people have been with us a long time and some of them are newer. I think what's been really amazing is exactly what you just said, finding ourselves not having to wear absolutely every hat every day. I think when you do that for too long, it's hard to have big ideas when you're running around basically taking care of millions of different things. As an agency owner, allowing a team to grow under you that can really take some of the responsibility and ownership is huge. I think Paul and I spent a good 10 years running around like headless chickens. [laughter] Suddenly we hit a wall and it's like, “We have to have a reorg,” all these kinds of things that we had to do 10 years ago. But we've really managed to build this incredible team under us, which enables us to do things like this and reflect and think about where we want to take the business. PAUL: It's an old adage, but hiring people that are really good at what they do and in certain things are better at you. There are certain disciplines where I'm happy to hand that over because you're really good at that thing, and you're going to make us better and up our game. Advice to anyone starting a new business is don't be afraid of that. As business owners, your ego – you say, “Oh my God, I've got to be the best at absolutely every single little thing.” You can't. Nobody's that good. Nobody can do that. A lot of it is just trust and support and letting those people do what they do, and letting them shine as best they can. Like Catherine said, we have an awesome leadership team as well, a bunch of very intelligent, motivated, lovely human beings that I think have really helped us think about our business and move our business forward about the way we do things. Right, Catherine? And brought ideas to the table that we said, “Wow, we never thought of that” or “That really helps,” or building on ideas that we have and going with it. We call it “yes, and-ing.” That really energizes you, and it pushes us all forward. It's exciting when that happens. You get off one of those calls, those sessions, like “We just did something really good. I feel as though we've made steps forward here. I feel really good about this.” Those are great moments. ROB: Gosh, all sorts of lessons in there. I'm grateful to have you both on the podcast here. Paul, Catherine, when folks want to get in touch with you and when they want to connect with the firm, ClarkMcDowall, where should they go to find you? PAUL: If you go to our website, clarkmcdowall.com – that's “McDowall” with an “A,” not an “E” – you'll have contact details there if you want to get in touch, for talent. And then there's also LinkedIn as well. We're happy to connect with people. ROB: That's excellent. Paul McDowall, Catherine Clark, congratulations on what you've accomplished together, at the meeting of the minds known as ClarkMcDowall. Thank you for sharing your journey, and I wish you all the best moving forward with this new hybrid adventure as well. CATHERINE: Thank you for having us. It was a great conversation. We also appreciate the forum that you have for other agency owners and talents to hear about agencies and get a little bit of an insight into the underbelly of these different companies. Really appreciate that focus on the industry. PAUL: Totally agree. Thank you so much. ROB: That's wonderful. We all need each other. Thank you, and be well. CATHERINE: Take care. PAUL: Awesome. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye. CATHERINE: Bye. ROB: Bye. Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

How do you turn a setback into the biggest comeback of your life? Catherine Just was only 18 years old when she decided to get sober from an addiction that almost made her give up on herself. That moment was the beginning of her new life, and an amazing artistic career that has led her work to be featured around the world, including the cover of National Geographic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you consider yourself an artist? What if I told you that you are one, whether you know it or not? We can be so hard on ourselves and the art we produce, based purely on assumed judgement. Breaking free of that opens us up to so much and enables us to make more deliberate choices in the direction of our dream. Welcome once again Dreamers, to the Do it with Dan Podcast! The place to truly dream with your eyes open. It's time to expand our experience with some more great discussion on the power of the mind in all things. Whether you want to manifest more wealth, emotional abundance or love in your life; this is the podcast for you. In this episode, Daniel has a chat the incredible Catherine Just. Catherine is an artist, photographer and activist living in Los Angeles. Her work has been published on the cover of National Geographic, inside O magazine and shown in galleries internationally. Her work investigates what lives in-between the words and underneath the surface of all forms of relationship. She considers her art process a sacred practice of listening to energy. Catherine got sober from a meth addiction at 18 years old on August 18th, 1987. That was the beginning of her artistic career and a life worth living. She's the proud mama of her 12 year old son, Max Harrison, who happens to have Down syndrome. She's currently developing the Max Harrison Foundation. She leads artist retreats in France and teaches courses online using photography as a tool for transformation. Catherine mentors artists and entrepreneurs globally. Please share your stories with me over at dreamwithdan.com. Connect with Catherine here: Website: www.catherinejust.com Instagram Handle: @cjust To subscribe to my YouTube channel, please go here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMdAvGk6xa5fptmdULliJrg About your host: Dan Mangena is a Transformational Life Coach, Public Speaker and Best Selling Author. This series of podcasts is completely free. They are intended to provide you with the tools you need to live your dreams and experience the abundance you desire right now! “You honour me by listening in to this show and I thank you. Please allow me to serve you better by letting me know your thoughts with ratings and reviews.” - Dan Mangena *PLEASE RATE US AND SHARE* Join me on: Facebook Instagram Twitter Music Credit: "The Dreamer", Common Timestamps of interest: 02:57 - Truth just is 07:23 - The Matrix & Crystal Meth 14:30 - Staying with yourself 17:00 - The Rabbit hole of doom 24:22 - Whacked with the ego's measuring stick 28:05 - Advantage is a powerful principal 36:30 - If I can't paint, does that mean I'm not an artist? 38:38 - Stop comparing. Who cares? 41:38 - Connect with Catherine 44:30 - ‘Turning Triggers into Treasures'

Catherine Just is an artist, photographer, and activist living in Los Angeles. Her work investigates what lies in between the words and underneath the surface of all forms of relationship. She considers her art process a sacred practice of listening to energy. Catherine got sober from a meth addiction at 18 years old on August 18th, 1987. That was the beginning of her artistic career and a life worth living. catherinejust.com www.catherinejust.com/offerings

Welcome to the Soul Centered CEO Show featuring special guest Catherine Just! Catherine Just is an artist, photographer, and activist living in Los Angeles. Her work has been published on the cover of National Geographic, inside O magazine, and shown in galleries internationally. Her work investigates what lives in-between the words and underneath the surface of all forms of relationship. She considers her art process a sacred practice of listening to energy. Catherine got sober from a meth addiction at 18 years old on August 18th, 1987. That was the beginning of her artistic career and a life worth living. She’s the proud mama of her 10-year-old son, Max Harrison, who happens to have Down syndrome. She’s currently developing the Max Harrison Foundation. The Foundation empowers people who have been culturally disadvantaged to have a voice using creative expression. The first program will teach kids with Down syndrome how to use cameras for self-expression. Catherine offers limited edition prints of her work and travels internationally for her photo sessions using large format film cameras. She leads artist retreats in France and teaches courses online using photography as a tool for transformation. Catherine mentors artists and entrepreneurs globally. Join Catherine on the Awakened Artist 5-day FREE Masterclass! Happening on January 18th-22nd. To learn more, visit: https://www.catherinejust.com/the-awakened-artist-5-day-course And the Awakened Artist 12-month mentorship and apprenticeship program on January 26th. To know more about the details, you may visit: https://www.catherinejust.com/awakenedartistprogram Hurry! Only 8 spots left in the apprenticeship level!

This example shows how a fantastic interview can sometimes feel like a failure when your audio is not up to par. Catherine Just is a Photographer who has been published on the cover of National Geographic magazine, inside O Magazine, Photo District News Magazine, the cover of Danielle magazine. The accompanying transcript helps fill in any gaps in a listener's ability to make out portions of the recording. --- Full transcript can be found on the YourPodScribe Medium page here

Catherine Just started using drugs and alcohol when she was 13. By 18 she was addicted to crystal meth. Then one day, in the throes of addiction, she heard a voice. It said, “There’s more to this life than what you’re living.” Something in Catherine woke up and she got sober. She "checked herself into art school" where she immersed herself in discovery through photography. Today Catherine, 32 years sober, uses photography to help others return to their essence. Using a 4x5 large format film camera, Catherine captures, in a single image, “the breath, heartbeat, dreams, wishes, and desires” of her subject. Her photography has been published on the cover of National Geographic Magazine, inside O Magazine, Photo District News Magazine and shown in galleries in the US and France.  In this conversation some of things we talk about: being addicted to meth at 16 and getting sober at 18  the power of photography to capture everything: the seen and unseen, the known and unknown how art helped her settle into herself and find her way into the world diving into the unknown as a business strategy and how to use future writing as a tool to create the life you desire May it inspire you to make your thing and change your world.

How is your business going to look 5 years from now? Even if you're crystal clear on what you are creating, the people you want to help and the products you just KNOW you want to sell… There's a good chance things will change in ways you might not expect or anticipate. And that's what we're talking about today on the podcast. Today's guest and co-host has been in the Fearless Launching community since DAY 1. She's also someone who I've watched grow, evolve, re-invent herself...all while staying very clear on the vision for her business. (and she's seen all of my changes too!) Catherine Just is a fine artist, photographer but more than that she's someone who shows people how to welcome in huge transformation in their lives. If you have been feeling stuck on what to launch first, overthinking getting something out to the world, or just can't seem to get out of your own way to complete ANYTHING… this interview and conversation is for you.   For full show notes, head on over to annesamoilov.com/215.

How is your business going to look 5 years from now? Even if you're crystal clear on what you are creating, the people you want to help and the products you just KNOW you want to sell… There's a good chance things will change in ways you might not expect or anticipate. And that's what we're talking about today on the podcast. Today's guest and co-host has been in the Fearless Launching community since DAY 1. She's also someone who I've watched grow, evolve, re-invent herself...all while staying very clear on the vision for her business. (and she's seen all of my changes too!) Catherine Just is a fine artist, photographer but more than that she's someone who shows people how to welcome in huge transformation in their lives. If you have been feeling stuck on what to launch first, overthinking getting something out to the world, or just can't seem to get out of your own way to complete ANYTHING… this interview and conversation is for you.   For full show notes, head on over to annesamoilov.com/215.

Catherine Just is an award-winning photographer, artist, and mentor living in Los Angeles, California. She travels the globe capturing the Breath, Heartbeat, and Pulse of the planet with her 4x5 camera, Polaroid, Pinhole and other alternative film cameras. Her most prized creation is her son Max Harrison who happens to have Down syndrome and teaches her the most valuable tool for creativity is love. After getting sober from a crystal meth addiction at the age of 18, Catherine has been using photography as a tool for transformation. She feels that the truth lives in-between the words as underneath the surface of our everyday lives. Photography has been a way to investigate these spaces and places that aren’t seen but are deeply felt. She’s been sober for 30 years and sees photography and the creative process as medicine. She travels internationally with her vintage 4x5 camera, Polaroid and Pinhole cameras capturing the breath, heartbeat, and pulse of the planet. Catherine leads immersive photography retreats in Paris, Barcelona, and Oaxaca and teaches 3 online courses: Self Portraiture as Medicine, Begin Deepening and Into the Deep. Catherine is the Founder of the Max Harrison Foundation, dedicated to her son. The foundation offers a program that teaches children with Down syndrome around the globe how to use cameras for self-expression.

Catherine Just is an award winning photographer, artist and mentor living in Los Angeles, California with her son, Max. She travels the globe capturing the Breath, Heartbeat and Pulse of the planet with her 4x5 camera, Polaroid, Pinhole and other alternative film cameras. Her career began in 1987 studying photography, film and video at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design. Catherine's work has been published on the cover of National Geographic Magazine, inside Oprah.com and PDN.com as well as galleries internationally including her most recent collaborative show in Paris, France. Catherine believes that photography can be used to gather up evidence of what's living in-between the words and to document the unseen but deeply felt spaces and places within the internal and external landscape. In 2016-2017 her personal projects, workshops and photo sessions took her to Paris, Cannes and Antibes, France,  Marrakech, Morocco,  Rome and Montecastello, Italy, Vancouver, B.C, Canada, Mexico City, Oaxaca, Puerto Escondido and Teotihuacan, Mexico, NYC, Boston, Seattle, Sedona and San Diego, USA with plans to head to Barcelona and Mallorca, Spain, New Orleans, Santa Fe, Albequerque and other US and International destinations.   She teaches workshops and courses both online and in person as well as creating images for highly visible creatives for their new albums, websites, books and creative projects. Her most prized creation is her son Max Harrison who happens to have Down syndrome and teaches her the most valuable tool to creativity is love. They are working on a collaborative photography project, film and book that will be shown around the world as a way to educate and advocate that Max, and people like him are valuable and unique individuals and not just a diagnosis. Catherine is currently putting together Pop-Up Art show events in Los Angeles, Barcelona and Paris. Her fine art is sold online in limited editions. Resources: Download the free Candid Frame app for your favorite smart device. Click here to download for . Click here to download Click here to download for Support the work we do at The Candid Frame with contributing to our Patreon effort.  You can do this by visiting or visiting the website and clicking on the Patreon button. You can also provide a one-time donation via . You can follow Ibarionex on and .

Meeting your hero can be a big deal. But doing it when you're tired and emotional? It's going to be trouble. Here's what happened when I met Danielle LaPorte - and then had my story blown out of the water. This is part of the Yes Yes Marsha Advent(ish) Calendar of Stories. If you'd like to get a different story in your inbox for every day in December, sign up (for free!) here: www.yesyesmarsha.com/advent Photo of Danielle LaPorte by Catherine Just

Talking Shop with Theresa and Bri: Every Picture Tells a Story with special guest Catherine Just. Your site needs great visuals – including a fab headshot.  Learn about photography for your site and how to get that perfect headshot with master photographer, Catherine Just! (Originally aired March 26, 2014)

Catherine Just wanted to be a stay at home mom for her son Max''s first three years of life.  She knew she couldn't get those years back, and she wanted to be as present as possible.     And like most stay at home moms, she cherished naptime, her one chance to spend time alone and get some other things done. Max didn't always want to nap, though.  Catherine would try to rock him to sleep, and some days, he would just look at her and laugh.     One day, she decided to do the whole thing differently.  She took her iPhone with her to naptime and lay down next to Max.  After he fell asleep, she took a picture of them together.  She saw how much of the present moment she had been missing, focusing on getting somewhere else and being somewhere else.  Instead, she found a simple way she could always bring herself back to the present moment.   Listen to how this practice has changed Catherine's life and the other practices she does inspired by Max.

She’ll lead you through fear into trust. Her heartfire will make you combust. Let go of control, The light hits your soul. A photo by Catherine Just. Peeling back the layers, finding what’s at the core. Letting go of attachment to stories. Getting dirty. Highlights: the lofty and the dirty secrets, shame spirit vs. soul, […]

My guest today – Catherine Just is a fine art photographer and entrepreneur. Her photography has been published on the cover of National Geographic Magazine, inside Oprah.com, Photo District News Magazine and the cover of the soon to be released Danielle Magazine and in dozens of galleries worldwide. Catherine is also the host of the [...] The post [Episode #105] Don’t leave before the miracle happens with Catherine Just appeared first on The Ambitious Entrepreneur Podcast Network.

Soul*full describes just about everything that Catherine Just does. We talk about how she uses photography as a tool for transformation, her journey as a creator and much more! We love your feedback! Please let us know what you think – email us at radio@loveandmoneyrevolution.com, or leave us a comment below. If you’re not subscribed, please join us! How to subscribe: Most people subscribe to podcasts in iTunes; click the button to view the podcast in iTunes. If you just want the feed link to use in a different podcast software: