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In this episode of ALPS In Brief, our Bar Partnerships Strategist Rio Peterson sits down with Tamara Nash, Director of Experiential Learning and lecturer at the University of South Dakota School of Law and Chair of the ABA's Young Lawyer Division. They dive into her upcoming initiatives for the year ahead and discuss the inspiration behind her focus on empowering and motivating new and aspiring lawyers. Lastly Tamara, a first-generation lawyer herself, shares her plans to reach more young lawyers by organizing the ABA's inaugural first-generation summit in April 2024. — Rio Peterson:  Hello everybody and welcome to episode 81 of the In Brief podcast. I'm your host today Rio Peterson, coming to you live from Chicago. And as we all know, I am the bar partnership strategist here at ALPS and one of your new hosts for the podcast. So today I am sitting down with the fantastic and fabulous Tamara Nash. Hello.  Tamara Nash:  Hi.  Rio Peterson:  How are you?  Tamara Nash:  I'm great. How are you today?  Rio Peterson:  Good, I'm fantastic. Better that I get to sit here and chat with you. So we are both attending BLI, the Bar Leader Institute conference here in Chicago. And so we thought this would be a great time to sit down and talk about a lot of, well, all of, or as many as we can, the exciting things that Tam is doing because you do all the things. So yeah, happy to have you. Thanks for joining me.  Tamara Nash:  Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.  Rio Peterson:  Fantastic. All right, so let's get started. I would love to hear a little bit more about you. I mean, obviously I know a little bit about you, but our listeners don't. So why don't you tell me a little bit about who you are, what you do, and yeah, we'll go from there.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, I would love to. So those kind of questions always strike a chord of panic. Who are you? It's like, "Well, let me encapsulate my life in this one sentence." I always like to start that with I'm a proud first-generation attorney, born and raised in Omaha, Nebraska, and then transplant to South Dakota, a proud South Dakota young lawyer, but I can only say that for one more year and then I'll be aging out. So I'll go kicking and screaming to veteran attorney status.  Rio Peterson:  Yes.  Tamara Nash:  O I guess a quasi veteran attorney status, but...  Rio Peterson:  Young veteran attorney.  Tamara Nash:  Young veteran attorney. Yes, I like that. We'll bring that term into use. I am the oldest sibling of three. I'm very close with my siblings. I have a brand new nephew and I have a niece. I'm quite obsessed with them. I bring them up any chance that I can get. I was a prosecutor for about eight years and then recently made a transition into academia. I currently have the joy of serving as the director of experiential learning and a lecturer at the University of South Dakota Knudson School of Law. And I am kind of a serial joiner. I really like bar service, so I do quite a bit in the South Dakota State Bar as well as the American Bar Association and the American Bar Association Young Lawyers Division and just try to squeeze in time to read and bake when I'm not doing all of those things.  Rio Peterson:  I do all of the things when I'm not doing all of them.  Tamara Nash:  Basically, yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. And so I think it's incredible that you do all those things. It really just shows that you're so passionate about what you do. And so something I would really love to hear is a little bit about your origin story because I know you mentioned that you're a first-generation lawyer, so that's a really, I think, exciting thing when somebody in your family takes that next step. So I'd love to know more about what inspired you to become a lawyer.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah. So I love telling this story. It's something I'm super proud about and something that has always followed me. It's always like a little seed or flower I carry with me everywhere. So I think I come from a family of helpers, a family of people who always want to improve the world, make the world better and have done that in kind of their own little way. But no one in my family ever really went to professional school, ever did anything like this. I mean, my grandfather had a third grade education and started his own business. So I mean, so amazing feat from that, a Black man from Mississippi.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah.  Tamara Nash:  So extraordinary journey and path that he lived. But my kind of story was inspired by an amazing teacher. My sixth grade teacher let us create a mini society. So we had our own money, we had our own name, we had our own businesses, and one of our classmates had a hot dog stand, which beside the point of how weird and creepy that is, that sixth-graders were selling hot dogs to other sixth-graders, we had a mini society day where some of us were selling... I had a supply store with my friends, they had their hot dog stand, but apparently my friend's classmates thought he wasn't pulling his end of the labor. And so they fired him.  And my teacher said, "Well, you can do something about that." So our class had a wrongful termination lawsuit and some of us were jury members, some of us served as attorneys. I was his attorney. One of us was a judge. And it just changed something inside of me. It was the coolest thing I've ever done. And my teacher was like, "You seemed to really enjoy that." And so he brought in three Black women to talk to me about what it meant to be a lawyer and what they did every day. And I sat with them in the school cafeteria during the school day and just learned about it. And it planted the seed inside of me of what I could do and what my life could be.  And I kind of had ups and downs through school. I didn't do very well the whole time. But when I got to college, that dream came to fruition. I took the LSAT, the law school admissions test and was like, "I can do this, and went to law school. And so I went to University of South Dakota Knudson School of Law and the dream of following in the footsteps of helpers and my family kind of came to life. So it all started with a hot dog stand.  Rio Peterson:  Did you win? Did you win the case?  Tamara Nash:  We did. We did. Yes. But really we were all winners. We were all winners.  Rio Peterson:  That's really incredible. It's really a testament to the power that education and certain adults in your life can have to influence and inspire the direction you go. And do you still keep in touch with that teacher?  Tamara Nash:  I do. So his name is Mr. Summit. We keep in contact periodically on Facebook. And I very much believe that my journey and my life has been influenced and my trajectory has been changed by people who have intervened and got involved and influenced me in these monumental ways. And he's just one of the several examples of people who've changed my life. And so yeah, I'm so appreciative of him for something that he probably thought was no big deal, but literally changed the course of my life.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. And I love too that he thought to bring three women that you could relate to and connect with as a woman of color and show you," Hey, this is what you can do."  Tamara Nash:  Absolutely.  Rio Peterson:  That's amazing.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah.  Tamara Nash:  It's so powerful. I mean, you have to see it to believe it, and that's what he did. And it just planted the seed that took years to blossom, but when it did, it came with a vengeance. So it's really cool  Rio Peterson:  Oh, I love that. That's fantastic. That's a great origin story.  Tamara Nash:  Thanks.  Rio Peterson:  Was there anyone during your journey through law school and as a young lawyer who also inspired you in that way or pushed you forward?  Tamara Nash:  Yeah. So I mean, sincerely mean it when I say I've had amazing mentors who've been pivotal in my life. As a young lawyer, I've had a few mentors who have just been wonderful, who've taught me how to be a young lawyer, how to navigate the profession, how to have empathy, how to have compassion, how to be a professional.  I had one mentor in particular, I remember it's the summer between second year and third year, everyone's interviewing for jobs. And I remember walking out of that interview and I thought to myself, "Whatever I got to do to work for this person, I'll do it." Just you connect with a person and you just know this is who I am supposed to learn from. And fate aligned that I got that internship and it was with the US Attorney's Office in South Dakota.  Rio Peterson:  Oh, wow.  Tamara Nash:  And it changed life. And I'm still mentee with that person, and I still call on them when I want to know what to do in life or what decisions to make. And the coolest thing about it is that person ended up becoming a judge and then I ended up becoming their clerk by happenstance. We both kind of got the same job the next year. And so our lives kind of tracked for a couple paces after that.  And so that person has been such a pivotal mentor and role model and encourager and champion in my life. And I think that's one thing that makes the South Dakota Bar so amazing is that it's such a close-knit community that I don't know a single young lawyer who hasn't been impacted by an amazing mentor, someone who's been a champion to them, cheered them on, encouraged them, provided opportunities. And I am so fortunate to be not at all from South Dakota, but benefiting from an amazing bar and amazing mentors.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. And really the role of mentorship is so important, especially when you're new at something. I mean, whether you're coming into the profession as a young person or even maybe a bit later in life, it can be a very daunting and intimidating thing to be surrounded by all these very intelligent people who know what's going on. So it's really fantastic to know that it is understood that that is such an important thing for people to have that support when they're trying to figure out who they are and where they're going to end up in this profession.  Tamara Nash:  Absolutely. And especially as a first-generation attorney where you don't have a parent who came before you who can tell you, "This is what you do when you go golfing," or, "This is how you interact at this fancy lunch." And for someone to just sit you down and tell you these unspoken rules or just to encourage you and remind you, you are here for a reason.  Rio Peterson:  You belong here.  Tamara Nash:  You belong. Exactly.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah.  Tamara Nash:  And then just the power of someone saying your name in rooms you're not in, and to help you seek opportunities and achieve and push yourself, it is so powerful and it means so much. So it's really exciting.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. And I think there's kind of a theme that I keep hearing when I get to speak to incredible legal professionals. It's that a lot of the legal community is of the opinion that success is not a zero-sum game. There's enough opportunity for everyone, there's enough success, and if we just work together and bring each other up, we're all going to do well. And...  Tamara Nash:  Absolutely.  Rio Peterson:  ... the world I think in general will do well from that.  Tamara Nash:  Oh, yes. Absolutely.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, our whole profession succeeds. One of the cool things is there's a session here at BLI, the Bar Leadership Institute, leadership is a team sport. We all succeed when one of us succeeds. We don't take away from any of us or any one of us. And I believe sincerely that when we dig in and work together to do our joint mission, whether that's serving justice, whether that's a strategic plan, whatever the goal is, we all come out enriched for whatever that is. And that's how my mentors taught me.  Rio Peterson:  Yes, yes. And so in your role as a teacher and a lecturer, is mentorship something that you speak about with your students and encourage?  Tamara Nash:  It is. Mentorship is such an amorphous topic to teach, though. It's so hard to say, "Mentor, find one."  Rio Peterson:  [inaudible 00:12:38] right now with somebody.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, exactly. But I do, and I try to bring in folks to come in and guest lecture and different guest speakers and bring in my mentors to demonstrate how important it is. And I talk and try to be open and vulnerable about how I've benefited from mentorship and why it matters and how to find mentors and how to engage with your mentor and how to give back to your mentors because it's not a one-way street either. It's not someone you just call up like, "Hey, Bob, need a job, what you got for me," kind of thing."  So yeah, we talk about it. And I think it's one of those things that as you grow in the profession, you understand what it means, kind of like I understood the opportunity that my sixth grade teacher gave me much more as I got older. And so I think it's one of those pieces as well. But I think the students really enjoy meeting professionals, understanding what they do and understanding how those connections can continue to be cultivated as they grow in their three years as law students and then much more beyond as lawyers.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Yeah, absolutely. That's fantastic. So you teach, but you were also a prosecutor for eight years?  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, about eight years.  Rio Peterson:  Was that in South Dakota?  Tamara Nash:  Yes. Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Okay. How did you like it?  Tamara Nash:  I loved it. It was very challenging, very stressful, but I loved it. I loved my office and the mission and just the pursuit of justice, it mattered, and it was a very meaningful job to have.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Got it. And so then after your time as a prosecutor, you've now segued into, you work with the South Dakota Bar, you do work with the ABA ,and you teach. What are some of the things that you do with the South Dakota Bar?  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, so I have been fortunate enough that as soon as I was licensed, I had folks say, "Come to bar service. Welcome. Welcome." And so I've been involved in the South Dakota State Bar and the American Bar Association pretty much since the time I've had a license. And so with the South Dakota State Bar, I've been on the Young Lawyers Board of Directors. I've been fortunate enough to serve as our South Dakota Young Lawyer Section President. And with the South Dakota State Bar, I am our young lawyer delegate to the ABA House of Delegates. I serve on a few different committees within our state bar, with our law school committee. I also this year serve as chair of our diversity, equity, and inclusion committee. And it's just been really cool to be a part of a state bar and to serve and lead in a state bar that has given me so much and really has been the reason I have a career. So it's been really rewarding. I enjoy it.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. And they recognize, they're like, "This woman gets things done. We need her to join the [inaudible 00:15:32]." Yeah, we know obviously ALPS works with the South Dakota Bar, and they're a fantastic group of people. So yeah, it's wonderful to hear too the impact that a bar and participating in your bar can have as well. And, oh, excuse me. Yeah, just the positive impact that can have in helping to push your career forward as well.  Tamara Nash:  Absolutely.  Rio Peterson:  And helping you to connect with people. And I think also focusing on your passion. It sounds like you're very passionate about supporting young lawyers and helping them navigate the world, the legal profession, and becoming lawyers. I know... I mean, I think it's clear based on your work as well with the ABA, because you are the chair of the Young Lawyer Division this year for the ABA as well, right?  Tamara Nash:  I am.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. How did that come about?  Tamara Nash:  Oh, that's a windy, twisty turn of fate, truly a fate. And it's been such a remarkable just journey of kind of finding a home in the ABA. I attended my first ABA conference back in 2016 as a member of the board of directors for South Dakota, our young lawyer section. And I say this in all sincerity, although it sounds like a Hallmark card, knew I had found my home and found my people in my first meeting. And so instantly signed up for everything I could and tried to join all the things. And then someone was like, "All right, we'll need to narrow it down. So tell us one thing you want to do." And so I applied to become a scholar, which is a leadership development program at the Young Lawyers Division does each year. 16 young lawyers are selected to participate. And that we kind of lovingly and appropriately call a springboard into leadership.  Rio Peterson:  Great.  Tamara Nash:  And so that was kind of the first opportunity or segue into the Young Lawyers Division that I did. And after that held different positions as a director and committee leader and on different teams and on different boards. And everything that I did, I just kind of fell in love with the division more and lovingly call the division home, where I've made amazing, amazing friends that have kind of helped guide me through hard life stuff that we all live challenges, career changes, encouraged me as I'm negotiating new jobs, celebrating fun wins in life, and it's just kind of become this professional home that means so very much to me. And so I decided in 2019 to run a campaign, a year-long campaign to be secretary of the division and the successful candidate for that ascends to chair. And so that was four years ago...  Rio Peterson:  Got it.  Tamara Nash:  ... which leads us to today...  Rio Peterson:  Got it.  Tamara Nash:  ... serving as chair.  Rio Peterson:  Well, I would buy that Hallmark card. Yeah, I love that you found that community. You just instantly were like, "Yes, this is where I need to be." And it really shows through all the work that you've done. And I know a project that you have coming up is a summit for first-generation lawyers, which we're very, very excited about. Do you want to tell us a bit about that?  Tamara Nash:  Yeah. So I'm so very proud, very excited to be a part of the first-generation summit that we're able to put on. So kind of context of stepping back, we as the Young Lawyers Division have a first-generation initiative. Something that we are incredibly proud of is creating community for first-generation law students and young lawyers. It was a gap that we had that we didn't have a place where we could say, "Hey, this is who I am and this is something I'm proud of, and here are resources to support me." And that is a gap that we filled last year, last bar year.  Rio Peterson:  Yes.  Tamara Nash:  And a part of that is creating space where we can come together and be proud of who we are, to bring mentors into the space, to provide resources. And so on April 26th of this year, 2024, we'll be meeting in Houston, Texas to have a summit and really just celebrate that shared identity that I think we've all, a lot of first-generation, I should say, have gone through this transition of it used to be something that you felt, I wouldn't say embarrassed, but maybe felt like it used to be a barrier or a challenge. And now it's a badge of honor. To be a first-generation is synonymous with grit and tenacity and to be someone who perseveres.  And we'll come together and celebrate that identity and that label. And we'll have high-schoolers there, we'll have college students there, law students, members of the judiciary and young lawyers, and just kind of celebrate that shared identity, build community and have some programming, have some networking breakfast, networking lunch, and really just celebrate who we are and that first-gen status. And we have some amazing partners, one of which is ALPS. We have the AccessLex Institute. And we have some of the Texas Bar Associations that have been fantastic partners, and South Texas College of Law has been a wonderful partner. And so we're just really excited to say, "We're here and we're proud of who we are and how can we help."  Rio Peterson:  Yes. And I really love that you've included high school students in that as well. And I mean, giving them an opportunity to see the law as something that is viable and it is something they should be considering and that is open to them. And I know you've done work in the past with I think it's Project Destination, right?  Tamara Nash:  Yes. Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. So I love that because I think it's, especially for someone who doesn't come from a family of lawyers, even thinking about being a lawyer is maybe something they wouldn't be considering without someone being like, "Oh, actually you should."  Tamara Nash:  Yeah, 100%  Rio Peterson:  "You can do this. This could be you."  Tamara Nash:  Yeah. Yeah. I think it's the profound ability to see yourself in someone who looks like you, to say, "I did it. You can do it." And to plant that seed that we know that sometimes can take years to blossom. I'm the example of that, that someone took the time to plant a seed in me, and it took years for me to even think back on that. But once I did, and once life happened and the universe aligned, that seed blossomed. And it's just to take the time to pour into someone, pour life into someone, invest in them and believe in them, and for them to remember to believe in themselves as well.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. And I think seizing the opportunity to create visibility around, I mean, particularly women of color and showing other young girls of color like, "Hey, this is something that you can do." I mean, I think about media and stuff, it's not often that you see that representation.  Tamara Nash:  Absolutely.  Rio Peterson:  So connecting with that is so important, even if you don't realize it in the moment. Looking back, just like you said with, as you've gotten older, understanding the opportunity that was presented when you met the those women lawyers. Yeah. It's amazing growing the gardens of tomorrow today.  Tamara Nash:  Yes, exactly. It's so cool. And I always think even if students never become a lawyer, the impact that you can have is profound. And the ripple effect of the generations you impact afterwards are amazing. And there's a quote that I love of, "You plant seeds today so that generations can live in the shade tomorrow." Something like that, the quote, not precisely. But it's so cool that someone years from now can live the benefit because you put on a 40-minute panel.  Rio Peterson:  Yes.  Tamara Nash:  And so it's really so cool and so truly just moving to know that you can change the course of someone's life. And I say that in a way of not like I'm important, but in a way that I've lived it. It has changed my life. And so I know the impact that it can have.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. And I love that generational element as well. I mean, maybe if a high-schooler comes to the summit and they don't become a lawyer, but maybe their kid does and maybe their kid becomes president because of it and changes the world. You never know.  Tamara Nash:  Exactly.  Rio Peterson:  You never know.  Tamara Nash:  Or someone becomes a court reporter or they go into law enforcement and then the next generation does something. It can just be so cool.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's very, very exciting. And so that's on April 26th.  Tamara Nash:  April 26th.  Rio Peterson:  At the Houston?  Tamara Nash:  South Texas College of Law in Houston.  Rio Peterson:  South Texas. Yes, in Houston. Okay. Fantastic. And we'll talk in a minute about how people can get connected with that.  Tamara Nash:  Sounds good.  Rio Peterson:  So something I want to ask because I think this is really a theme and overarching theme about what we've been talking about is just inspiring youth and creating and opening those opportunities. So what is some advice that you would give your younger self? I know this is a question you like to ask. Well, I'm asking you, Tam.  Tamara Nash:  All right. A piece of advice I would give my younger self is to stay rooted in your passion and your dreams and to trust the process and trust the journey. I think we get very convinced that success looks one way and that the path has to be one way. And we get so rigid and so distracted by other people's definition of success that sometimes we lose sight of our own passion, our own dream, and our own wants for our life. And so I would just remind my younger self that it will work out just as it should and that you can define success for yourself.  Rio Peterson:  Oh, I love that. I feel like that's going to be the title of this episode. I imagine your family's really proud of you, hey.  Tamara Nash:  I hope they are.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's great. I love that. I love that advice. And it is so true. I mean, we definitely get wrapped up in this idea that it has to be a certain thing. But that's the great thing about success in this life is that you really get to decide for yourself what is important and how that looks and where you want to take it. And that's a really powerful thing to know.  Tamara Nash:  Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. And I mean, obviously it takes time to learn that, but once you do.  Tamara Nash:  It's liberating.  Rio Peterson:  Yes, it absolutely is. It's like, "Oh, I don't have to fit in this box. That's really awesome."  Tamara Nash:  Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's great advice. So tell us how can people find out about the summit?  Tamara Nash:  Yes. So easiest way to find out about the summit is reach out to me directly. You can email me at tamarapnash1@gamil, tamarapnash1@gmail.com. And I would love, love, love to get you connected to get you there and to get you all the information you might need.  Rio Peterson:  Perfect. And we will make sure to put that in the show notes so that it's easy to find and everyone can connect with you. And yeah, we're really looking forward to the summit and I think it's going to be a fantastic success.  Tamara Nash:  Thank you. We're excited and we are appreciative of your partnership.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. Anytime. We love young lawyers. Yeah, so thank you so much for chatting with me today. This was fantastic. I really enjoyed our conversation.  Tamara Nash:  Me too. Thanks for having me.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely. Anytime. You come back anytime.  Tamara Nash:  All right, be careful.  Rio Peterson:  This is just going to be our new show. And then they did a spinoff and it was great.  Tamara Nash:  And It kept going.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time. Have a wonderful day.   

“You can't think yourself out of trauma,” the introduction to Trauma-Informed Law: A Primer for Lawyer Resilience and Healing warns. “An analytical response is insufficient. As lawyers and law students, we have been trained to learn only with our minds. But there are other epistemologies—other ways of knowing and interacting with the world.” Trauma-Informed Law, published by the ABA Law Practice Division, arose as a collaborative effort between Canadian lawyers Helgi Maki and Myrna McCallum and American lawyers Marjorie Florestal and J. Kim Wright. It seeks to suggest not only how lawyers can provide better client service to traumatized people, but also how lawyers, law students and judges can deal with their own traumas. Maki points out many people say that while the initial incident that brought them into contact with the court system was difficult—be it a divorce, an assault or a contract dispute—their experiences once inside the judicial system were harder to bear and caused more emotional damage. What other profession, she asks, would accept that as an outcome for its clients? In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Maki and the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles discuss the impact of trauma on the legal profession, and the ways researchers have seen it impact people on a personal and systemic level. Lawyers may be reluctant to label their own experiences trauma, but Maki explains vicarious trauma, and how burnout is a “cousin” to trauma. One element the book stresses is how important it can be for judges to become aware of how trauma can impact everyone in a courtroom, and basic measures that can be taken to decrease the risk of causing further harm during courtroom proceedings. The ABA House of Delegates recently called for more research to be done on how court workers are impacted by what they see at work and by threats to their personal security. Maki and Rawles also discuss ways legal professionals can build support systems without endangering client confidentiality, and how law schools can prep law students for the inevitable challenges they will face in the profession.

“You can't think yourself out of trauma,” the introduction to Trauma-Informed Law: A Primer for Lawyer Resilience and Healing warns. “An analytical response is insufficient. As lawyers and law students, we have been trained to learn only with our minds. But there are other epistemologies—other ways of knowing and interacting with the world.” Trauma-Informed Law, published by the ABA Law Practice Division, arose as a collaborative effort between Canadian lawyers Helgi Maki and Myrna McCallum and American lawyers Marjorie Florestal and J. Kim Wright. It seeks to suggest not only how lawyers can provide better client service to traumatized people, but also how lawyers, law students and judges can deal with their own traumas. Maki points out many people say that while the initial incident that brought them into contact with the court system was difficult—be it a divorce, an assault or a contract dispute—their experiences once inside the judicial system were harder to bear and caused more emotional damage. What other profession, she asks, would accept that as an outcome for its clients? In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Maki and the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles discuss the impact of trauma on the legal profession, and the ways researchers have seen it impact people on a personal and systemic level. Lawyers may be reluctant to label their own experiences trauma, but Maki explains vicarious trauma, and how burnout is a “cousin” to trauma. One element the book stresses is how important it can be for judges to become aware of how trauma can impact everyone in a courtroom, and basic measures that can be taken to decrease the risk of causing further harm during courtroom proceedings. The ABA House of Delegates recently called for more research to be done on how court workers are impacted by what they see at work and by threats to their personal security. Maki and Rawles also discuss ways legal professionals can build support systems without endangering client confidentiality, and how law schools can prep law students for the inevitable challenges they will face in the profession.

“You can't think yourself out of trauma,” the introduction to Trauma-Informed Law: A Primer for Lawyer Resilience and Healing warns. “An analytical response is insufficient. As lawyers and law students, we have been trained to learn only with our minds. But there are other epistemologies—other ways of knowing and interacting with the world.” Trauma-Informed Law, published by the ABA Law Practice Division, arose as a collaborative effort between Canadian lawyers Helgi Maki and Myrna McCallum and American lawyers Marjorie Florestal and J. Kim Wright. It seeks to suggest not only how lawyers can provide better client service to traumatized people, but also how lawyers, law students and judges can deal with their own traumas. Maki points out many people say that while the initial incident that brought them into contact with the court system was difficult—be it a divorce, an assault or a contract dispute—their experiences once inside the judicial system were harder to bear and caused more emotional damage. What other profession, she asks, would accept that as an outcome for its clients? In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Maki and the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles discuss the impact of trauma on the legal profession, and the ways researchers have seen it impact people on a personal and systemic level. Lawyers may be reluctant to label their own experiences trauma, but Maki explains vicarious trauma, and how burnout is a “cousin” to trauma. One element the book stresses is how important it can be for judges to become aware of how trauma can impact everyone in a courtroom, and basic measures that can be taken to decrease the risk of causing further harm during courtroom proceedings. The ABA House of Delegates recently called for more research to be done on how court workers are impacted by what they see at work and by threats to their personal security. Maki and Rawles also discuss ways legal professionals can build support systems without endangering client confidentiality, and how law schools can prep law students for the inevitable challenges they will face in the profession.

Prepare to venture into the uncharted territory of Arizona's legal landscape, where the rulebook is being reshaped, and the status quo is bravely defied. In this transformative episode of The Heart of Law, our astute host, Mirena Umizaj, invites Ethics Attorney Lynda Shely, the esteemed founder of The Shely Firm, to shed light on the intricacies of the Arizona Business Structure (ABS) program and its groundbreaking 2021 rule changes. Together they discuss the elimination of Ethics Rule 5.4 and how it has acted as a powerful catalyst, propelling Arizona lawyers to forge collaborative partnerships with non-lawyers, igniting a new era of innovation and opportunity in the legal landscape.  With an impressive private practice spanning over two decades, Attorney Lynda Shely has consistently delivered exemplary representation to numerous law firms while also providing invaluable ethics advice to over 2,000 firms nationwide. However, her influence extends far beyond her thriving practice. With pivotal roles in prominent committees and organizations, including the Arizona Supreme Court's Alternative Business Structure (ABS) Committee, Attorney Lynda Shely stands at the vanguard of the ABS program's development and implementation, driving the advancement of innovative approaches to legal practice.  As the episode unfolds, Attorney Lynda Shely takes a moment to reflect on her personal journey to becoming an ethics attorney, navigating the delicate balance of career and motherhood while raising her three children. Her story serves as a testament to the determination and resilience required to carve a path in the legal profession. Reflecting on her experiences, Attorney Lynda Shely unveils her instrumental role in spearheading the groundbreaking initiative that allows Arizona lawyers to establish law firms with non-lawyers as owners or investors. Addressing misconceptions, she acknowledges lawyers' concerns about potential conflicts of interest. However, she assures listeners that the Arizona ABS program is designed to maintain integrity by safeguarding lawyers' control over legal decisions. She sheds light on the rigorous regulations and meticulous approval process that enable non-lawyers to hold ownership stakes in law firms while respecting the professional autonomy of lawyers in client representation and case selection.  As the conversation progresses, the focus shifts to the intriguing realm of mass torts and its intersection with Wall Street. With artful emphasis, Mirena highlights the profound significance of this intersection, succinctly stating, "this is where the rubber meets the road." Her words resonate as Wall Street ventures into the domain of mass torts, actively investing in law firms through financial loans, seamlessly integrating themselves into the very fabric of the debt structure. In parallel, Mirena and Attorney Lynda Shely explore the ever-evolving landscape of technological advancements, honing in on the transformative impact of chat GPT and its wide-ranging implications for the legal field.  As the final moments of the episode unfold, the spotlight shifts toward the legal landscape in Utah, where uncertainty looms over the issue of non-lawyer ownership. Mirena's mention of Utah's shifting stance from considering partnerships to potential felony charges raises eyebrows and prompts reflection. In response, Attorney Lynda Shely expresses her disappointment in these attempts to restrict innovation and courageously advocates for the embracing of change. She acknowledges that "change is scary,", particularly in the legal profession, where risk aversion often prevails. However, she reminds us that it is precisely this embrace of change that propels progress and allows the legal profession to adapt and better serve its clients.   QUOTABLE QUOTES: "I represent firms in every practice area. So, I have to understand the ethics rules, but not necessarily have very detailed knowledge of a specific practice area like mass torts or estate planning or tax." "The Arizona Supreme Court created a task force on the future of the profession to look at a couple of issues, not just access to justice, which we all know there is a huge gap in getting legal services to people who need it, but simply informing folks that they might have a legal issue and how to get legal services." "Some of us who are ethics lawyers looked at the rules, and one of the rules that they were reviewing was Ethics Rule 5.4, which is the rule that prohibits lawyers from both sharing legal fees with non-lawyers and having a partner who's a non-lawyer. In Arizona, our task force looked at the rule and really kind of looked at what else was going on in the whole world, not just the US. And they looked at the fact that the UK has had these alternative business structure law firms, and an ABS is simply a law firm that has some non-lawyer owners." "The UK has had ABS law firms for years, and so has Australia, and they've been able to demonstrate that, look, this provides capitalization to firms, which frequently lawyers are not good at finding capitalization for their firms. It also provides incentives to key paraprofessionals because we all have issues with trying to maintain our staff and keep quality people." "The number one misperception about Arizona's program is that it permits non-lawyers to practice law, and that's not true. The other, and I would say this is a legitimate concern, lawyers express concern, oh if we're going to have non-lawyer partners, all they're going to be interested in is the bottom line, and they're going to tell me I shouldn't take depositions because they're too expensive... I get that. And that's a very legitimate concern." "Arizona's ABS program is designed to hopefully prevent non-lawyers from controlling the legal decisions that lawyers make. The ABS regulations are very detailed in saying, you know, non-lawyers, you can own a hundred percent of an Arizona law firm that we approve. It has to go through the ABS committee, and you have to get all the non-lawyers, including all the companies, approved by the ABS committee. You can own 100% of the firm, but you cannot direct the legal representation of clients or even which clients the firm will represent." "The ABS program actually is more transparent than the existing litigation funding in other states because where you have a law firm in someplace else that borrows money to be able to pay for all of the advertising that they have to do and all the expert witnesses, in the ABS program, you know exactly who's involved with that lawyer because it has to be disclosed in the application. So I would say that the ABS law firm process is much more transparent than regular litigation funding." "The ABS application journey, I guess, starts with a lawyer considering that they want to partner with a non-lawyer. And I tell everybody on both sides… do your homework. It's just like being engaged. You don't get engaged overnight. First, you date somebody for a while, and you figure out if your values are compatible... Same thing in a law firm; before you bring a partner on, you do some due diligence, same thing in the ABS process." "The ABS applications are very detailed. They require disclosing every person or company that will have a 10% or greater ownership or economic interest in the firm. So, it's kind of a proactive approach to saying before you create this law firm, tell us that you know what you have to have in place." "I think the ABS process and the regulations are far better at assuring that the people who are involved in these law firms understand they have an obligation here to serve clients. This is not just about the bottom line; it's a for-profit firm. So yes, you can make profits, but it is about representing the clients." "Change is scary. I recognize the concern but number one; you're not going to have Wall Street buying up, gobbling up every law firm in Arizona. That's just not gonna happen. Number two, you don't have to participate in this. I have a law firm in Arizona. It's not an ABS."  "I appreciate that change in the legal profession is glacial because lawyers are resistant to risk and change, which is good." "I don't think Chat GPT is going to eliminate lawyers. I think it probably will help lawyers be more efficient. It's kind of like a giant form file that large firms all have. So I don't see technology eliminating us." "I think you're gonna have a lot of main street lawyers still in, in small firms, solo shops. And that's wonderful. But you also might have Wall Street investing in that small, small town sole practitioner and allow them to maybe update their technology and make their services even more efficient, more affordable." "I think law firms might pretend that they weren't for profit. They want to say we're a profession, and we are, but every firm is for profit unless they are officially a nonprofit, and more firms should consult with somebody like you because I'm not teasing when I say lawyers are bad at finance." "By permitting Wall Street to be able to invest in a firm, you actually are expanding access to justice and access to legal services because you might then be able to fund a lawyer who's a small-town lawyer who's great expertise and has a compassionate heart and is great with clients, but they can afford a national ad campaign, can't afford ten years of litigation against a huge corporation and hiring all the experts that are needed. " "We're years and years into mass torts, and it costs a fortune to do this. And so the consumer who has a possible claim, number one, might not even know it. So that's what a lot of this is. It's educating consumers about their recourse. And then number two, having the finance to be able to front all this money because mass tort lawyers don't charge their clients the cost upfront; they front all that money." "My personal view is I'm sad to hear that lawyers who are frightened by the change are trying to go to the legislature and restrict change. I think it's shortsighted. I think it hurts the profession, and it hurts consumers, and shame on them for being afraid to let Utah have their sandbox, their pilot project." "I think Arizona's BS program is being so careful. I would say if anything, we overregulate the law firms that are being approved by requiring so much disclosure and so much looking behind the curtain to see who's actually controlling everything." "Everybody who is a licensed A BS law firm in Arizona is a representative of the program. So it's to everybody's benefit that we approve firms that are trying to comply with the regulatory objectives and that everybody abides by the rules because you're right. We want to show this is; this is an opportunity for lawyers; this isn't being done to lawyers."   EPISODE SURVEY: [00:02:15] - [00:04:25] Navigating the Intersection of Ethics and Law: Lynda Shely's Journey as an Ethics Attorney [00:04:59]- [00:09:43] Revolutionizing Legal Partnerships: Eliminating Rule 5.4 and Embracing Non-Lawyer Ownership [00:11:54] - [00:16:48] Balancing Transparency and Control in Mass Tort Partnerships: The Role of Wall Street and the ABS Program [00:16:50] - [00:27:03] Examining the Path to Partnership: The Process of Establishing an ABS Law Firm  [00:27:08] - [00:39:16] Embracing Opportunities and Addressing Concerns: Navigating ABS Partnerships with Confidence  [00:39:19] - [00:47:50] Future Predictions: Law Firms, Wall Street, and the Role of Legal Technology [00:47:53] - [00:52:06] Utah's Bold Steps: Embracing Change and Expanding Legal Services   ABOUT OUR GUEST: ●      Founder of The Shelly Firm in Scottsdale, Arizona ●      Currently serves on the Arizona Supreme Court's Alternative Business Structure, ABS Committee. ●      2020-2023 Chair of the ABA Standing Committee on Ethics and Professional Responsibility. ●      Serves as an Arizona delegate in the ABA House of Delegates ●      An active member of the State Bar of Arizona Ethics Advisory Group ●      President of the National ABS Law Firm Association ●      Past Director of Lawyer Ethics for the State Bar of Arizona for ten years ●      Past president of the Association of Professional Responsibility Lawyers and the Scottsdale Bar Association. ●      Recipient of numerous awards, including the 2007 State Bar of Arizona Member of the Year award and the 2022 Maricopa County Bar Association Member of the Year Award. ●      Has served as an adjunct professor at all Arizona law schools, teaching professional responsibility

Plan to end mandate for LSAT, other law school admission exams stalls in key vote - https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/06/aba-lsat-law-school-admissions-test/Supreme Court justices should follow binding code of ethics, ABA House says - https://www.abajournal.com/web/article/resolution-400-supreme-court-justices-ethics-code13th Amendment constitution right to abortion? - https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/06/federal-judge-constitutional-right-abortion-dobbs-00081391SBF of FTX wants to chat with his friends LOL - https://www.reuters.com/legal/sam-bankman-fried-prosecutors-resolve-dispute-over-bail-conditions-2023-02-06/Thanks so much for listening to Minimum Competence. If you have any questions or story suggestions, find us on Mastodon on the esq.social instance. We also have a link aggregator in the fediverse, at links.esq.social, where some of our stories will be sourced from so feel free to sign up and submit there.We are especially interested in legal happenings from our listeners outside the United States. If you have an interesting case or story, consider recording a 30 second to 2 minute clip on your phone and sending it in. We'd love to run it. Contact information is in the show notes. Get full access to Minimum Competence - Daily Legal News Podcast at www.minimumcomp.com/subscribe

Lynda Shely serves as the founding partner of the ethics law firm, Shely Law. Lynda consults on legal ethics to firms operating in Arizona and the District of Columbia on topics including advertising, fee agreements, billing, conflicts of interest, and staff training, to name a few. Shely Law also offers specialized risk management assessments and training on how to implement in-firm CLE programs. Before founding Shely Law in 2003, Lynda served as Director of the State Bar of Arizona's Board of Ethics and held years of experience as an intellectual property associate at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP.  Most recently, she chaired the 2020-2022 ABA Standing Committee on Ethics and Professional Responsibility, and currently serves as an Arizona Delegate in the ABA House of Delegates. Lynda speaks on ethics to law conferences across the country and frequently serves as an expert witness in legal malpractice cases. Lynda has received numerous awards for her work in law ethics, including the ​​2015 Ruth V. McGregor Award issued by the Arizona Women Lawyers'​ Association, the 2007 Member of the Year award issued by State Bar of Arizona, and the 2010 Award of Excellence issued by Scottsdale Bar Association. Most recently, the Maricopa County Bar Association honored Lynda with the 2022 Robert R. Mills Member of the Year award.   Lynda Shely Social Media:   LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynda-shely-74400a11/  Twitter - https://twitter.com/shelyethics Email - lynda@shelylaw.com   Shely Law - https://shelylaw.com/   Remember to subscribe and follow us on social media…   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mass-tort-news Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/masstortnewsorg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/masstortnews.org

Episode 32 of the "Everything Except The Law" podcast has arrived! This time we're speaking with Robin Wolpert, an attorney for the Sapientia Law Group and Treasurer of the Institute for Well-Being In Law.In this episode, Robin and podcast host Nick Werker discuss what recent data tells us about the state of lawyer wellness, what makes attorneys likely to struggle with wellness-related issues, how well-being can impact work performance and much more!About our guest:Robin Wolpert is an appellate practitioner, business litigator, and white-collar criminal defense attorney at Sapientia Law Group in Minneapolis. Her 20-year career began in BigLaw, and she went on to serve as a prosecutor and Senior Counsel of Compliance & Business Conduct at 3M. Robin handles a diverse mix of criminal and civil lawsuits and appeals, focusing on constitutional law, defamation, business fraud, money laundering, and cyber-harassment and misinformation campaigns. Robin is passionate about public service. Robin is President-Elect of the National Conference of Bar Presidents, Treasurer of the Institute for Well Being In Law, Member of the ABA House of Delegates, Member of the ABA Standing Committee on Professionalism, and past President of the Minnesota State Bar Association. She served on the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being from 2018-20. She was Chair of the Lawyers Professional Responsibility Board from 2017-2021, responsible for oversight of Minnesota's lawyer disciplinary system.Connect with Robin here: http://ow.ly/HmWn50KUtCQLearn more about Robin here: http://ow.ly/WzOY50KUtIZ  About IWIL:The Institute for Well-Being in Law (IWIL) is dedicated to the betterment of the legal profession by focusing on a holistic approach to well-being. Through advocacy, research, education, technical and resource support, and stakeholders' partnerships, they are driven to lead a culture shift in law to establish health and well-being as core centerpieces of professional success.Learn more about IWIL here: https://lawyerwellbeing.net/

U.S. News named being a lawyer as the 2nd most stressful job in 2022. But it wasn't until recently that far reaching reports identified major wellbeing deficits, such as problematic drinking, workaholism, and mental health concerns. The reports led to a major call to action for the industry to address lawyer wellbeing. It also led to the creation of the Institute for Well-Being in Law (IWIL), a non-profit dedicated to the betterment of the legal profession through holistic well-being.  Podcast guest Robin Wolpert is an appellate practitioner, business litigator, and white-collar criminal defense attorney at Sapientia Law Group in Minneapolis. She is Treasurer of the National Conference of Bar Presidents, Treasurer of the Institute for Well Being in Law, Member of the ABA House of Delegates, Member of the ABA Standing Committee on Professionalism, and past President of the Minnesota State Bar Association.  In this episode, Robin shares her entry into the industry and what's changed in her 20 years of practice. Robin describes some unique challenges lawyers face, both in law school and once they are practicing. She explains a series of reports that emerged, which was a call to action for things to change in the legal industry. Robin walks through a couple of the recommendations to enhance lawyer wellbeing and asks a question for lawyers to reframe their current environment. For links mentioned in today's episode visit https://redesigningwellness.com/

In this episode of Money Tales, our guest is Juan Thomas. Juan grew up in suburban Chicago and as an African American, he saw a different level of privilege when hanging-out with white kids and felt out of place in both worlds. When he attended Morehouse college, he did a deep dive on African American theological giants, inspiring him to become a servant leader. Juan also wanted to be the first black president. Although that's been taken, he's still committed to political aspirations and is focused on bridging the money differences he sees between black and white communities. Juan is Of Counsel to Quintairos, Prieto, Wood & Boyer, P.A., and is the founder and principal of The Thomas Law Group. Mr. Thomas' practice includes the following specialties: real estate/estate planning, labor and employment, and family law. In addition, Mr. Thomas provides counseling and training to firm clients in areas involving personnel, collective bargaining, and business development matters. The National Black Lawyers: Top 100 includes Mr. Thomas on its list of the Top 100 Trial Lawyers, an honor given to only a select group of lawyers for their superior skills and qualifications in the field. Membership in this exclusive organization is by invitation only and is limited to the top 100 attorneys in each state or region who have demonstrated excellence and have achieved outstanding results in their careers. Mr. Thomas' selection was based upon his performance as an exceptional lawyer in the practice area of matrimonial and family law in the state of Illinois. Because of Mr. Thomas' dedication to developing lawyers for bar leadership and community service, he was selected to serve on the Executive Council of the National Conference of Bar Presidents, a national association of lawyers-leaders whose mission is to provide high-quality programming and leadership development training for members of the legal community. Mr. Thomas also serves as the Chair-Elect of the American Bar Association's Civil Rights & Social Justice Section, and the General Counsel for the Morehouse College National Alumni Association. This past December, Mr. Thomas was elected by the Illinois State Bar Association (ISBA) to be an At-Large Delegate in the ABA House of Delegates becoming only the second African-American to represent the ISBA in its 144 history in the ABA House of Delegates. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Illinois Bar Foundation and Co-Chair of the Board of Directors of the American Constitution Society (Chicago Chapter). Mr. Thomas served as the 75th President of the National Bar Association (NBA) from 2017-18.  During his term as President, the NBA co-founded the National Commission for Voter Justice to address voter suppression across the country while advancing electoral reform and civic engagement. Under his Law & Technology Initiative, Mr. Thomas was the first NBA President to lead the Association to Silicon Valley to promote more diversity and inclusion in the technology industry. Also, under Mr. Thomas' leadership the NBA established its first LGBTQ Lawyers Division to further advance an inclusive environment for all members of the Association regardless of their sexual orientation or identity. From 2013-19, Mr. Thomas served on the Board of Directors of Mutual Ground Inc., an organization committed to providing services to victims of domestic violence and sexual assault and their families. He is the Past Chair of the State Conference of Illinois NAACP Legal Redress Committee and the past General Counsel for 100 Black Men of Chicago, Inc.  Currently, he is on the Board of Directors of the Leadership Greater Chicago Fellows Association, 100 Black Men of Chicago, Inc., and the A + Foundation for the West Aurora School District # 129. Mr. Thomas' passion is community and public service. While in law school, he successfully ran for the West Aurora School Board, commuting 120 miles each way every weekend during the c...

In this episode of Money Tales, our guest is Juan Thomas. Juan grew up in suburban Chicago and as an African American, he saw a different level of privilege when hanging-out with white kids and felt out of place in both worlds. When he attended Morehouse college, he did a deep dive on African American theological giants, inspiring him to become a servant leader. Juan also wanted to be the first black president. Although that's been taken, he's still committed to political aspirations and is focused on bridging the money differences he sees between black and white communities. Juan is Of Counsel to Quintairos, Prieto, Wood & Boyer, P.A., and is the founder and principal of The Thomas Law Group. Mr. Thomas' practice includes the following specialties: real estate/estate planning, labor and employment, and family law. In addition, Mr. Thomas provides counseling and training to firm clients in areas involving personnel, collective bargaining, and business development matters. The National Black Lawyers: Top 100 includes Mr. Thomas on its list of the Top 100 Trial Lawyers, an honor given to only a select group of lawyers for their superior skills and qualifications in the field. Membership in this exclusive organization is by invitation only and is limited to the top 100 attorneys in each state or region who have demonstrated excellence and have achieved outstanding results in their careers. Mr. Thomas' selection was based upon his performance as an exceptional lawyer in the practice area of matrimonial and family law in the state of Illinois. Because of Mr. Thomas' dedication to developing lawyers for bar leadership and community service, he was selected to serve on the Executive Council of the National Conference of Bar Presidents, a national association of lawyers-leaders whose mission is to provide high-quality programming and leadership development training for members of the legal community. Mr. Thomas also serves as the Chair-Elect of the American Bar Association's Civil Rights & Social Justice Section, and the General Counsel for the Morehouse College National Alumni Association. This past December, Mr. Thomas was elected by the Illinois State Bar Association (ISBA) to be an At-Large Delegate in the ABA House of Delegates becoming only the second African-American to represent the ISBA in its 144 history in the ABA House of Delegates. He is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Illinois Bar Foundation and Co-Chair of the Board of Directors of the American Constitution Society (Chicago Chapter). Mr. Thomas served as the 75th President of the National Bar Association (NBA) from 2017-18.  During his term as President, the NBA co-founded the National Commission for Voter Justice to address voter suppression across the country while advancing electoral reform and civic engagement. Under his Law & Technology Initiative, Mr. Thomas was the first NBA President to lead the Association to Silicon Valley to promote more diversity and inclusion in the technology industry. Also, under Mr. Thomas' leadership the NBA established its first LGBTQ Lawyers Division to further advance an inclusive environment for all members of the Association regardless of their sexual orientation or identity. From 2013-19, Mr. Thomas served on the Board of Directors of Mutual Ground Inc., an organization committed to providing services to victims of domestic violence and sexual assault and their families. He is the Past Chair of the State Conference of Illinois NAACP Legal Redress Committee and the past General Counsel for 100 Black Men of Chicago, Inc.  Currently, he is on the Board of Directors of the Leadership Greater Chicago Fellows Association, 100 Black Men of Chicago, Inc., and the A + Foundation for the West Aurora School District # 129. Mr. Thomas' passion is community and public service. While in law school, he successfully ran for the West Aurora School Board, commuting 120 miles each way every weekend during the c...

Explaining How to Avoid Conflicts of Interest https://zalma.com/blog It is imperative that the defense attorney and the adjuster both recognize that where the interests of the insurer and the insured conflict in a suit on a liability policy, the attorney's duty is to the insured. The attorney and the adjuster must be careful that the attorney does not become the insurer's agent on any issues that relate to coverage. The insurer may, if it ignores this conflict, find itself paying extracontractual damages and counsel may be surprised to be a defendant in the same suit. Conflicts may be avoided by sending a copy of the reservation of rights letter or nonwaiver agreement to the attorney retained to defend the insured so that he or she is aware of the problem areas. However, the adjuster must not ask the attorney retained to defend the insured to draft a reservation of rights letter for the company or to provide the company any advice regarding coverage. Doing so would create an unnecessary conflict between the attorney and the client/insured and force the defense attorney to withdraw from the case. The adjuster should not instruct the attorney to collect facts without any relevance to the defense of the insured but that are particularly directed to an issue that would tend to defeat coverage. Nor should the adjuster pose hypothetical cases involving similar facts to the attorney hired to represent the insured. Rather, the adjuster should consult experienced coverage counsel regarding coverage issues, including assistance drafting reservation of rights letters to the insured. Coverage counsel should never be involved in the defense of the insured or the insurer because coverage counsel will usually be a key witness in any future litigation resulting from the advice provided. Coverage counsel's work should be limited to providing advice to the person or entity who has retained him or her. The American Bar Association (ABA) established Guiding Principles for Insurance Representation in 1970, which were later incorporated into the ABA's Code of Professional Responsibility. The ABA Guiding Principles were rescinded at the annual meeting of the ABA House of Delegates in August 1980. The delegates decided the Guiding Principles no longer needed a separate statement, as the principles had been incorporated into the ABA's Code of Professional Responsibility. They include the following suggestions: If a conflict arises between the interests of the insured and the insurer, the insurer and the attorney hired by it must inform the insured of that conflict and invite him to retain his or her own attorney at his or her own expense. © 2021 – Barry Zalma Barry Zalma, Esq., CFE, now limits his practice to service as an insurance consultant specializing in insurance coverage, insurance claims handling, insurance bad faith and insurance fraud almost equally for insurers and policyholders. He also serves as an arbitrator or mediator for insurance related disputes. He practiced law in California for more than 44 years as an insurance coverage and claims handling lawyer and more than 52 years in the insurance business. He is available at http://www.zalma.com and zalma@zalma.com. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/barry-zalma/support

This year, the law student division is bringing three resolutions for consideration before the ABA House of Delegates at the Annual Meeting. In this episode, Ashley Baker is joined by Matthew Wallace for a deeper look at two of these resolutions and what law students hope to achieve through them. First, they discuss the resolution calling for the ABA to encourage widespread adoption of pro bono scholars programs. Matthew explains the benefits of programs of this kind and offers insight into what this type of opportunity would look like for a typical law student. Later, they discuss how the resolution for increasing the number of law student division delegates from three to six would give law students the voice they deserve in the ABA House of Delegates. Matthew Wallace is a 3L at Syracuse University College of Law.

Join Jonathan Krueger as he interviews Doug Copeland who is a founding member and principal of COPELAND, THOMPSON, and JEEP. IN THIS EPISODE:   On today’s show we will be talking about the trends in Estate Planning. I’d like to welcome our guest Doug Copeland who is a founding member and principal of COPELAND, THOMPSON, and JEEP.   During this episode you’ll hear:   The most prominent issues currently affecting estate planning. Does everyone need a trust and/or a will? Other important documents everyone should have. What joint ownership with a child or children means for an estate plan. The role of life insurance in a plan. What role charitable giving plays.   Opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of LionsGate Advisors. The topics discussed, and opinions given are not intended to address the specific needs of any listener. LionsGate Advisors does not offer legal or tax advice, listeners are encouraged to discuss their financial needs with the appropriate professional regarding your individual circumstance.       RESOURCES:   Douglas A. Copeland is a founding member of the firm.  He primarily practices in the fields of education law, estate planning, probate and trust administration, commercial real estate transactions and corporate/business law.   Mr. Copeland currently serves as general counsel to the Webster Groves School District, Missouri Baptist University and Missouri Baptist Children’s Home.  He formerly served as general counsel for Missouri Baptist Medical Center, the Rockwood School District, the Valley Park School District, and the Cooperating School Districts of the St. Louis Suburban Area.  For many years, Mr. Copeland has served as local counsel for the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP).  Mr. Copeland currently is a member of the Boards of Trustees of Missouri Baptist Medical Center, Missouri Baptist Healthcare Foundation, a private charitable foundation and Kirkwood Baptist Church.  He also serves as a member of the Audit Committee of BJC, the Board of Trustees of The Missouri Bar, the Planned Giving Council of the St. Louis Art Museum, and the St. Louis Estate Planning Council.  Mr. Copeland served as President of The Missouri Bar and the St. Louis County Bar Association, and as a member of the ABA House of Delegates.  He also served on the Missouri State Public Defender Commission from 2008 until 2016, serving as Chair from 2011 until 2016, and the ABA Missouri Death Penalty Assessment Team, 2010-12.

It’s a culinary competition that has raged for millenia. Well, maybe not millenia, but at least since the invention of the pizza. And now, New York’s thin, crispy slices are challenging Chicago’s deep dish, sauce-smothered pies in a whole new way. In this report from On The Road, honorable host Laurence Colletti acts as supreme pizza judge while Deborah Enix Ross and Fred Dixon represent New York, and Michael Bergman and David Whitaker represent Chicago. And, of course, what is a trial without a crusty bailiff, in this case Jerry Cito. Who will win the title of best pizza? Grab a slice and tune in to find out. Jerry Cito is the senior vice president of convention development at NYC & Company. Deborah Enix-Ross is Senior Adviser to the International Dispute Resolution Group at Debevoise & Plimpton in New York City. She has been a member of the ABA House of Delegates since 2010 Fred Dixon is the president and CEO of NYC & Company. Michael Bergman is a partner in the firm of Bergman & Song LLP. He practices intellectual property law with a focus on patent and trademark prosecution, licensing, and related transactional matters. David Whitaker is the president and CEO of Choose Chicago where he leads sales and marketing efforts.

In early August, the American Bar Association's House of Delegates will vote on a proposed amendment to Rule 8.4 of the Model Rules of Professional Responsibility. The amendment would subject lawyers to professional discipline for "harassment" or "discrimination," even if the conduct was unintentional or committed unknowingly, and even if the harassment or discrimination is not prejudicial to he administration of justice.  The rule proposes that any conduct "related to the practice of law," including running a law firm, representing a client, or engaging in social conduct as a lawyer, would fall under the rule. The rule also expands the classes against which unknowing "discrimination" is prohibited to include "socioeconomic status," "gender identity," and "sexual orientation." Given the current cultural winds, this rule is a dangerous minefield for lawyers, particularly those who don't see "gender identity" or "sexual orientation" as cultural "causes" to be celebrated. Brad Abramson, Senior Counsel with the Alliance Defending Freedom, has been following this issue for several years. About three years ago, a handful of states moved to enact similar changes, and Brad has been on top of the issue ever since. Now that the ABA is following suit, there is a danger that many more states will jump on the bandwagon.  Join host Mike Schutt as he and Brad discuss the proposed rule and its specific dangers to practicing lawyers. They discuss the proposal's break with the tradition of lawyer autonomy, its Constitutional difficulties, and the specific changes the new rule would make. They also speculate as to why the ABA Standing Committee on Ethics and Professional Responsibility would ignore 477 lawyers' comments opposing the rule (in contrast to the 17-- just 17!-- in favor of the rule) when revising it. In closing, Schutt and Abramson suggest that attorneys everywhere contact their delegates and urge a "NO" vote on the proposed amendment, Resolution 109, at the ABA House of Delegates meeting August 8 and 9. A list of delegates is available here. Both Christian Legal Society and ADF submitted detailed comments opposing the rule. Read them here (CLS) and here (ADF).  Mike Schutt is the host of Cross & Gavel audio, and Associate Professor at Regent University School of Law, where he has taught Professional Responsibility and Torts, among other things. He is a graduate of the University of Texas School of Law. He currently teaches American Legal Thought in the Regent MA program and directs Attorney Ministries for the Christian Legal Society. Contact him at mschutt@clsnet.org. Bradley Abramson serves as senior counsel with Alliance Defending Freedom, where he plays an integral role on the Alliance Coordination Team. He also directs the Bar Association Project, which focuses on encouraging allied attorneys to participate in and influence bar associations to advance religious freedom. He earned his J.D. from the University of Minnesota Law School. Contact him at babramson@adflegal.org.  

The ABA Law Student Division serves to not only provide options for students to better engage with their peers but also to provide valuable leadership and career development opportunities. Individuals who wish to promote positive change within the profession will often seek to aid their peers by serving on the Law Student Division Board of Governors. In this ABA Law Student Podcast hosts Fabiani Duarte and Madison Burke sit down with members of the ABA Law Student Division to chat about their past year in review. The conversation opens with each board member explaining a bit about their law school background, the circuit they represent, and some of the changes their circuit went through over the year. The group then takes some time to discuss their favorite achievement that their respective law school was able to accomplish this year. The conversation wraps up with each governor providing tips and advice for the new board members that will be filling their positions once they leave. Mathew C. Mecoli, Third CircuitDrexel University Thomas R. Kline School of Law Akemini Ruby Isang, Fourth Circuit:University of South Carolina School of Law Marcus Sandifer, Fifth CircuitEmory University School of Law Krystal Yalldo, Sixth CircuitWestern Michigan UniversityThomas M. Cooley Law School Mayra Salinas-Menjivar, Fourteenth CircuitUniversity of Nevada Las Vegas,William S. Boyd School of Law Kirk W. Kabala, Fifteenth CircuitArizona Summit Law School Andrew Rhoden, M.S.American University, Washington College of LawWashington, DCDelegate to the ABA House of Delegates

One of the most demanding endeavors that any recent law grad will face is studying for and passing the bar exam. However, upon entering the legal market, many graduates aren’t aware of the challenges associated with transferring their bar exam scores between jurisdictions. In this episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast, host Fabiani Duarte and guest Christopher Jennison, the Board of Governors representative to the Law Student Division, discuss their year-long fight to provide law students with more bar exam portability by encouraging the ABA House of Delegates to adopt Resolution 109. Christopher Jennison is the Board of Governors representative to the Law Student Division and sits on the ABA Board of Governors. He graduated from Syracuse University in 2012 with dual majors in public relations from Newhouse and policy studies from Maxwell. He also graduated with a master’s degree in public administration from the University of Pennsylvania in 2014. Christopher has been the law student liaison to the Standing Committee on Continuing Legal Education and was also the recipient of the Law Student Division’s Gold Key Award.

The Digital Edge podcast Host Jim Calloway interviews Trish Refo, chair of the ABA House of Delegates, at the 2015 ABA Midyear Meeting. Refo equates the House of Delegates to the Legislative branch; it makes and sets policy for the entire association. She discusses the various future issues that may be brought to the house including unaccompanied minor immigrants, consumer data privacy, possession and ownership of wild animals, stand your ground laws, and roadmaps to making Native Americans safer, among other legal concerns. Trish Refo is a partner at Snow and Wilmer in Phoenix where she practices commercial litigation with an emphasis on business tort disputes and legal malpractice defense.

Starting a law firm from scratch can be a daunting endeavor. With a down economy, limited budget, and not enough clients, solos can have a tough time breaking into the market. In her debut as the new host of New Solo, Adriana Linares interviews Jay Foonberg, the most influential author on the subject of starting your own law firm. Together they discuss where to find clients, how to get paid, and recommended practice areas. Tune in to learn how attorneys stay relevant with new technology, why it's important to train assistants, and how to sustain a long happy marriage. Jay Foonberg is the author of How To Start and Build a Law Practice (5th edition) and was a practicing attorney in Beverly Hills for over 40 years. He served in the ABA House of Delegates, is on the Advisory Council for the ABA Commission on Evaluation of the Rules of Professional Conduct, and was a founder of the ABA Law Practice Management Section. In addition to being an author of three other important books (all available from the ABA), Foonberg is a much sought after speaker on topics such as client relations, malpractice prevention, and client development in every one of the 50 states and as far afield as Europe, South America, and Asia. He has received the prestigious Harrison Tweed Award and lifetime achievement awards from 4 American Bar Association entities.

Stephen Wu Stephen Wu is a partner in the Silicon Valley law firm Cooke Kobrick & Wu LLP. He advises clients concerning data security and privacy, electronic commerce, e-discovery, electronic records retention, and digital evidence. His practice also includes technology transactions, intellectual property litigation, and commercial litigation. Before forming CKW, Mr. Wu was VeriSign, Inc.'s second in-house attorney where he was in charge of the company's worldwide policies and practices governing its digital certification secure ecommerce services. Prior to joining VeriSign, Mr. Wu practiced with Jones Day Reavis & Pogue and Kirkpatrick & Lockhart LLP in the areas of computer law, intellectual property, general litigation, and technology transactions. He clerked with a U.S. District Judge in Columbus, Ohio. Mr. Wu was co-chair of the ABA Information Security Committee from 2001 to 2004. He is currently Secretary of the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law. Mr. Wu is a frequent speaker on secure electronic commerce and information security topics, as well as e-discovery, digital evidence, and electronic records retention. He has written or co-written five books on information security, including Guide to HIPAA Security and the Law (ABA 2007), Information Security: A Legal, Business, and Technical Handbook (ABA 2004), Risk Management for Consumer Internet Payments (NACHA 2002) and Digital Signatures (RSA Press 2002). Mr. Wu received a B.A., summa cum laude, from the University of Pittsburgh in 1985, and received his law degree, cum laude, from Harvard Law School in 1988. Lucy Thomson Lucy L. Thomson, J.D., M.S., CIPP/G, has extensive experience as a litigator in complex federal civil and criminal cases and as an expert in information security, privacy, and new technologies. At Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), a global technology company, she has addressed a wide range of legal, technical, and policy issues in major IT and information sharing programs. This past year, she was appointed Consumer Privacy Ombudsman for three U.S. Bankruptcy Courts to oversee the sale of electronic consumer records. A career U.S. Department of Justice attorney from 1977-2000, Ms. Thomson served in senior positions in the Criminal and Civil Rights Divisions. Ms. Thomson is an ABA Fellow, and represents the D.C. Bar in the ABA House of Delegates. She is a member of the Council of the ABA Section of Science & Technology Law and chairs its Homeland Security Committee. She served on the D.C. Bar Board of Governors, as Bar Secretary and President of the Women's Bar Association and its Foundation. She was the guest editor of the Symposium on Homeland Security in JURIMETRICS: THE JOURNAL OF LAW SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (2007), and is a frequent contributor to the IAPP Privacy Advisor. In recognition of long-time public service, she received the Heroines in Technology Award. Ms. Thomson is a past Alumni Trustee of Andover. She earned a master's degree from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in 2001, and her J.D. from Georgetown University Law Center. Hoyt Kesterson II Hoyt L. Kesterson II is an Arizona-based technology expert with more than 30 years of experience in the field of information security and related technologies. For 20 years he chaired the international standards group that created the X.509 certificate, a fundamental component in digital signature and securing web transactions. He has been working with the ABA's Information Security Committee for nearly 20 years on the effects of digital data and electronic signature.

-In this episode: From the Board of Governors, to The Department of Justice, to The Department of Education, and finally to the ABA House of Delegates, MSL pursues their accreditation case against the ABA. Has the case been stacked against them from the start, or has