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Welcome back to the show. We're wrapping up the Good to Great series with a best of episode. I love these episodes, and I love hearing from you that you love these episodes. Today, we're deep diving in Enneagram. We are going to talk about some Enneagram insights here that will help us go from good to great in our lives, in our relationship with God, in our relationships with other people, and just continue to build our self-awareness, which helps us build our emotional health, which helps us build great relationships.  Today, we have Elizabeth Orr, Marilyn Vancil, Jesse Eubanks, and Beth McCord sharing their Enneagram expertise.  We are diving into everything from Enneagram wings, the nine key desires, the shadow side and core beliefs of each number, and ways to love each Enneagram number.  Join us as we learn about: Identifying with more than one number and Enneagram wings with Marilyn Vancil  The nine key desires and how one comes to the forefront in our lives with Jesse Eubanks The shadow side and core belief of each Enneagram number with Elizabeth Orr Ways to love each Enneagram number with Beth McCord Favorite Quotes:  “The Enneagram helps give more definition and understanding of what your particle obstacles are. It is just a tool, but it is very helpful in discerning where we are stuck.” ~02:36 - Marilyn  “There are nine key desires that all human beings have, but one of them, for mysterious reasons, whether it is nature or nurture, takes the lead.”  ~06:57 - Jesse  “The shadow side is our survival mechanics. It is how we are trying to survive in the world as we perceive it. Every type has a very particular way of how they perceive the world and what they believe to be true about it.”  ~12:20 - Elizabeth  “For each personality type, all of these good messages are beneficial for any of the types, but some land very pointedly on the type because that is what is really tripping them up in life.”  ~26:02 - Beth Links to Great Things We Discussed: Marilyn Vancil  Website   Marilyn Vancil  Instagram    Jesse Eubanks Website    Jesse Eubanks Instagram    Elizabeth Orr Instagram    Beth McCord Website    Beth McCord Instagram    Build a Coaching Business Quick Start Challenge Create a Course Remaining You While Raising Them Little Things Studio Little Things Studio is a woman-owned small business bringing daily reminders of beauty and truth to your home and life. These thoughtfully-designed products are made in the USA and focus on the rich words of hymns and the beauty of nature.  Hope you loved this episode!   Make sure to hit that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don't forget to check us out on YouTube and slap some stars on a review! :)   xo, Alli

Are you ready to skyrocket your knowledge of Amazon PPC? In this TACoS Tuesday episode, prepare to be amazed as we bring you the secrets of the trade from none other than Elizabeth Greene, the co-founder of Amazon ads agency Junglr. Dive into the world of data analytics and learn why understanding the numbers behind the numbers is crucial. Whether you're a beginner or a seasoned seller, we've got insights that are bound to give your Amazon PPC game a boost. We talk about the core strategies for launching new products, from using supplementary keywords to strategic ad placements. We uncover the importance of context when branching into new markets and how to leverage different keyword match types to target specific search terms. Learn about optimizing strategies for Black Friday and Cyber Monday, and how to manage your budget effectively during these peak seasons. Lastly, ignite your understanding of advertising for branded products on Amazon. We debate the significance of tracking the share of search and using Search Query Performance reports, and reveal our strategies for advertising for products with only a few relevant keywords. Tune in and take away valuable strategies and insights that will elevate your Amazon advertising game to new heights.   In episode 511 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Shivali and Elizabeth talk about: 00:00 - It's Time For Another TACoS Tuesday Episode! 05:34 - Evaluating and Auditing PPC Strategy  08:10 - Analyzing Ad Spend Efficiency and Impact 12:34 - Advertising Strategy and Keyword Targeting 17:45 - Advertising Strategy for New Product Launch 25:32 - Keyword Research Using Helium 10 30:51 - Using Keywords and Sales Volume 36:31 - Optimizing Bids for Better Ad Performance 42:22 - Control Ad Spend, Gain Campaign Impressions ► Instagram: instagram.com/serioussellerspodcast ► Free Amazon Seller Chrome Extension: https://h10.me/extension ► Sign Up For Helium 10: https://h10.me/signup  (Use SSP10 To Save 10% For Life) ► Learn How To Sell on Amazon: https://h10.me/ft ► Watch The Podcasts On Youtube: youtube.com/@Helium10/videos Transcript Shivali Patel: Today, on TACoS Tuesday, we answer all of your PPC questions live, as well as discuss what you could be doing in terms of launching and auditing your PPC campaigns during the Q4 season. Bradley Sutton: How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Want to enter in an Amazon keyword and then within seconds, get up to thousands of potentially related keywords that you could research. Then you need Magnet by Helium 10. For more information, go to h10.me/magnet. Magnet works in most Amazon marketplaces, including USA, Mexico, Australia, Germany, UK, India and much more. Shivali Patel: All right, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Series Dollars podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Shivali Patel, and this is the show that is our monthly TACoS Tuesday presentation, where we talk anything and everything Amazon ads. So today we have a special guest with us, and that is Elizabeth Greene, who is the co-founder of an Amazon ads agency called Junglr. So with that, let's go ahead and bring her up. Hi, Elizabeth, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you? Elizabeth: Very good. Shivali Patel: So, nice to have you on. Thank you for joining us. Elizabeth: Yeah, thanks for having me. These are always, always fun. Shivali Patel: And what an exciting time to be talking about Amazon ads to a fat. It's cute for you. Oh my goodness, you must be slammed. Elizabeth: Life is a little bit crazy right now, but you know it comes with the territory. Shivali Patel: So it does. It is peak season I see we have someone coming, so it's a very exciting time to be in business and I'm looking forward to reading your questions and hopefully having Elizabeth answer them Now. The first question here says what can you suggest for a beginner like me, who is just starting out, and what and where can I learn to grow as much as possible? Elizabeth: I would actually say there's two skills that one, in the beginning, none of us have, and they are skills and they can be learned, even though they're considered more quote, soft skills. Data analytics made it not as much. Shivali Patel: My two things are going to be. Elizabeth: Data analytics and communication skills Community Asian sales are, you're going to find, are quite important when it comes to management of accounts management of accounts that are not your own. So if you are, even if you're a brand manager in a company or, you know, obviously, at an agency seller and a sourcing person, okay then I'm going to go with data analytics. Data analytics are going to be your friend. The things that I've kind of discovered have been, like you know, sort of mind blowing. For me are the numbers behind, the numbers Meaning. So when you're trying to evaluate ACoS, right, a lot of people are like, oh, it costs one up, it costs with down. Great, I know this, I can look at the account. What the heck am I going to do about it? Data analytics really good data analytics not only tell you the what, but the why and then the what next. So you're, if you can get really really good at the why and the what next, that's going to really set you apart and the way that I kind of have come to it. This is my own personal journey. Maybe there's other people who are way smarter than me, have way better journeys, but for me it has been, again understanding the numbers behind the numbers to have, for example, right, you start in a little bit of a way, it's kind of like the matrix. Elizabeth: So when you're breaking down, say ACoS, right, you go, okay, ACoS one up, big, else one down. Why right, what the heck happened? You're like, oh, wait, I can calculate ACoS by ad spend divided by ad sales. Okay, so it's either that ad spend went up and sales remain consistent or went down, or ad sales went down and spend remain consistent. She like, oh, okay, there's those two variables. Okay, now I can say, okay, ad spend increased. And then I can go, okay, ad spend increased. Great, I know that why. And then you're like, okay, so I can calculate my ad spend by my cost per click, by my number of clicks. Elizabeth: So either my cost per click went up or the number of clicks happening in my account went up. And then you can look at those two variables and go, oh, okay, it's the number of clicks. Why? Oh, I just launched a whole bunch of new stuff. Okay, that's why. Or my cost per click went up exponentially. Why? Maybe you know, it's just a natural market change thing. Talking about prime time, peak season, now you're probably going to see cost per clicks going up. It's a market thing. Versus other times you might have aggressively increased a whole bunch of bits in your account and so then you go check back. So data analytics that's the way I view it. I am not classically trained on data analytics, I just have looked at it for over five years now and tried to figure out the what the heck is going on a question and the what to do about it questions, and so those. That's my way of sort of. I've learned to sort of peer into the matrix. So if you can get really good at understanding not just what the data is but what it's telling you, that's really going to get you to the next level. Shivali Patel: Definitely, and I think a lot of people have very different strategies. I think Elizabeth's strategy, you know, is definitely one you should take into consideration. But also, the best way to learn is going to be trial and error and until you're really sifting through your own data, I think it's going to be hard to you know gauge sort of what's happening. I think a lot of things in business are just as they come. Now I want to kind of take the other side of that and go into, let's say, somebody's not a beginner, right, somebody's been selling for a while. They're more established. What do you recommend to somebody who might be evaluating or trying to audit their own PPC strategy? Elizabeth: Next level is going to be evaluating things on a per product level. And let me clarify when I say per product, I mean per listing. The reason why is the data gets kind of funky when you pull it down to a skew level. You definitely can, but there's some nuances that you really want to be aware of that can kind of lead you in the wrong direction if you're looking at a per skewer, per child days and level. But if you can start looking at your ad strategy, your sales growth, everything through the lens of listings, that's really going to take you to the next level. Shivali Patel: So when you see listings, are you talking about maybe like the conversion metrics? Are you looking at the keywords that you're using, sort of what is like the underlying factors? I guess all the above. Elizabeth: Honestly, but to make sense of it all. Because, to your point, like force for the trees, if you look at like everything, then do you walk away being like I have no idea what in the world I'm supposed to focus on? So the way that we've begun looking at it and the reason why we started looking at it like this is because we managed several clothing accounts. Talk about complexity, talk about force for the trees. You're like where in the world do I start? And you want to make impact on these accounts. Right, you can't just like all right, I did my bit, adjustments and call it good. Like you really want to get at our hands dirty and like really start improving the accounts. But you're like where in the world do I focus? So what we've started doing is percentage of total have been a little bit of a game changer. They're not, it's not the newest thing on the block. A lot of people use this percentage of total, but the two things that we look at is the percentage of total sales of each. Again, we're talking about a listing level. Again, reason clothing you have up to hundreds of different SKUs on a per listing level. Like how the heck do you make sense of it. So how do we make sense of it is rolling it up to the parent listing level and then looking at the percentage of total ad spend, again on a per listing. Elizabeth: So this gives you a lot of clarity into what products are driving the most sales for the brand. And then, what products are we spending, are we investing the most ad spend on? And when you look at it this way, it's very common to have these things happen in the account. If you haven't been paying attention to them, you oftentimes will see like oh wow, this product's driving 2% of my total sales volume and I'm spending 10% of my total ad spend here. Like that's probably a discrepancy. Maybe I should go and adjust those ads. So that gives you a lot of clarity. And then to court of gauge because again we're an ad agency, so ads are the thing that we focus on the most to help and drive improvements for the brands is we will look at the impact of the total spend on that per product. So again, percentage of total ad spend, and then we'll look at what we call like quote ad spend efficiencies, meaning ACoS, Total ACoS, ad sale percentage, also the delta between your ad conversion rate and your total conversion rate. Our unit session percentage is actually really helpful gauge. And so we're like, okay, we're investing most of our dollars here. How is our efficiency on that large investment? Elizabeth: And then you can sort of pinpoint like, oh, wow, I'm investing most of my ad spend into this product, to the point of like 5% of total brand sales, 13% of total ad spend investments. And wow, the ad spend investments are really unprofitable. Now, if you're in a launch phase, there might I mean there's context that you need to add to the numbers, to the point of like telling the story with data. And if you're managing the brand, you probably know the context. But at least it goes as okay. So here's two products we should dig into more. Here's two products we need to probably invest more of our ad spend on. And it really starts to clarify things when you really kind of understand how to see the picture in that way. Shivali Patel: To kind of follow up on that how do you really end up deciding which keywords to go after, as well as, maybe, how to really structure them into campaigns in accordance with your budget, because I know that's different for everyone? Elizabeth: Yes, it definitely is. We will always focus on relevancy first in the beginning. Now there are certain times if you're doing like a brand awareness play or you're like, wow, I've really targeted my market and I need to branch out, like what's the next hill? Absolutely go after categories, you know like, go after those brand awareness plays. But if you're in the beginning and you're in a launch, the nuance of Amazon advertising is you're not building, you don't build the audience. Amazon has built the audience for you. Elizabeth: All we're looking to do is use specific keywords or search terms to get in front of the audience that is already existing and that's where relevancy comes in. So you're saying where is my specific shopper? What are they using to search for products like mine? And I need to make sure I'm showing up there. So we're always going to prioritize that. That typically is going to get you better conversions, you know, better clicks, more interactions with your brand and which leads to more sales. And then also on the flip side, and if you're doing this on launch, it is a really good product sort of evaluation, because if you're showing up exactly in front of your target shoppers and your click rate is terrible and your conversion rate is terrible and like nobody's buying, there's probably a signal that maybe there's things to adjust with the listing or other factors that you should look into. Shivali Patel: Do you ever go into, like branch into, I guess, supplementary keywords where maybe it's not exactly for the product but it's maybe like a related product, and where do you really place those sort of ads? Elizabeth: Yeah, so when we'll do it is really dependent on the overall performance and the ads spend or profit goals, right? I mean, it seems so stupid, simple, but if you are advertising more, you're going to be spending more, and if you're struggling to bring down Total ACoS or ACoS again, ad spend divided by ad sales, the one thing you can control with ads is ad spend. So in those cases when we're looking to bring down Total ACoS, we're typically looking at pulling back on ad spend. So if a product or brand is in that phase, I'm not going to be like let's launch all these broad things and we're not quite sure how they're going to convert, right? So context is really key here, but when it comes to branching out, it really is dependent. Elizabeth: You will find certain products on launch where, like, for some reason, it's really difficult to convert on the highly relevant terms but, like adjacent markets or, to your point, like somewhat related keywords or related products, actually work really well. So we're always going to prioritize what's working. So if we're like finding all of these search terms that are popping up through, like, say, broad match or autos or something, wow, we weren't aware that this is actually a really great market for us. But it's very obvious, looking at the data, that's something that we should, that's a direction we should go in. Then obviously we'll push towards that direction. But depending on if we're going to like decide to branch out on our own, it probably is highly dependent on the ad spend and then also sort of the phase of the product, meaning like how we kind of conquered everything and what's our next play. Shivali Patel: And in terms of when you are launching, yes, we're going for the most relevant keywords, right, that are where you can find your target audience. But what about in terms of exact match, like yes, are you going directly into exact match and auto and broad all at the same time? Are you just kind of doing exact first and then branching into auto? Elizabeth: Yeah, so we do like exact first. I'm still a huge fan of like all the above, exact phrase and broad. The one thing that we have found is like within your exact match, you can just be more specific on what search pages you're spending your ad dollars on. So if you, especially if you have limited budgets in the beginning and you're like, hey, I really want to make sure that I hyper target these keywords, exact match makes a lot of sense. Now, if you're talking about you like branching out, we're still going to prioritize putting a higher bids on our exact match keyword. So we're still going to try and have most of. Elizabeth: Let me say this if you're going to be aggressively spending on a specific search page, you're like I've identified this keyword, this is my ranking keyword, I'm going to put a lot of budget behind it. Exact match all the way. Now I don't want anyone to say that clip and be like wow, she hates broad and freight. Like, no, I love all the above. Like we run autos, run multiple autos, category targeting, like all the above, do it. But if you're trying to get really aggressive with something, it's just it's the nature of how the match type works more than like it's quote best, because they don't really think it is. Shivali Patel: Now I do see that we have some new questions, so let me go ahead and pop them up. We have can you give a refresher on how people can do modifiers, since nowadays exact sometimes performs as phrase match and phrase sometimes is like broad. So if someone wants to make sure that an exact is that exact two word phrase is adding plus in the middle self that. Elizabeth: Yes, it does, but caveat, it only officially does in sponsor brand ads. If you look at the document, I mean I gotta go check it because they're like they keep updating the documentation on the slide and like not notifying us. But from my understanding and from the reps I've talked to, and also the search storm reports, I've seen modified broad match I don't believe a hundred percent works all the time in sponsored product ads, which is super annoying. So for those of you listening who are unaware of what a modified broad match is or modified search terms, modified broad match is a thing in sponsor brand ads. So the way that broad match keywords work in sponsored brand ads and they have sense care that over to sponsor product ads is that it cannot only target. You know we do classic broad match, right, you can put keywords in the middle, you can swap stuff around. But like if I had the keyword running shoe, right, both the word running and the word shoe must be present in the search term for your kind of traditional sponsor product broad match. It's not the case anymore. Elizabeth: You can target what's called related keywords. So for example, one would be like sneaker, right, it's kind of related to running shoe. And if you wanna say. I stuck a screenshot out on LinkedIn not that long ago and I was like, how is this relevant? Like one of them, it was like targeting like a bread knife and the search term that it triggered was like ballerina farm, go figure, I don't know, but like, so you can get like this really weird, funky stuff. So what we do to kind of combat that one, just keep up on your negatives these days, like, keep a sharp eye on your search and reports and add those negatives. Elizabeth: But the one thing that you can do is just sort of like to Bradley's point make each those individual words have to show up is if, in front of each of those words that you want to make sure are present in the search term, you can add a little plus symbol. So in the example of like, say running shoes, I would say plus shoes, plus what is our running whatever? Plus running, plus shoes, right, and then that would trigger to the algorithm. Okay, you have to use these things inside of your searches, which again is a factor in sponsored brand ads. If you look at the documentation, they do say that modified broad match is a thing and it's been a thing for a while. I just hasn't been super popular. But I haven't read documentation that they've rolled that over into sponsored product ads. I don't think it's a bad idea to get in the practice of using modified broad match and sponsored product ads though. Shivali Patel: Okay, thank you for answering that question. We also have another one that says I'm going to be launching a brand new store for FBA and Shopify for my own manufactured product. What will you suggest that I do for the first few months? Elizabeth: Well, I'm gonna assume that the question is saying, with ads because that's my area of expertise like new product launches, there's a lot. So definitely follow @HumanTank because they way more than just add advice to offer you. But as far as the advertising, I would prioritize keyword research for the product launches. That actually would be really helpful when you're trying to vet even the space for your particular products. And then I would again, I would hyper focus on relevancy in the beginning. I would run that in exact match, probably high bids. Elizabeth: In the beginning you're looking for two things. You're looking to get eyeballs on your product, ideally those eyeballs conferring to sales that is remain to be seen, based on how appealing your product is to the market and how good your search pages et cetera. But you want to get eyeballs in the product and then you want to use those eyeballs to sort of vet again how much these shoppers like your particular product for purchase. So that's what I do. I would focus on those again for like the first couple weeks is typically what we do, and then you might sort of branch out into phrase match run, auto campaigns et cetera. Now here's a trick is how many keywords you choose in the beginning to launch is actually going to be determined by your budgets. So I have seen so many sellers in the groups like they'll be like oh my gosh, I just launched and launched my ads and I'm spending like $1,000 a day and I can't afford it and I don't know what's going on. Again, it's simple, kind of seems like stupid logic but the more keywords you're advertising on, the more clicks you're gonna get, the more cost per clicks you're gonna pay, the higher ads spent. So you actually want to factor in what you're doing for your launch strategy with your budgets. Elizabeth: Like I just got off a client call and we're like all right, we have these new product launches. Yeah, it's a really competitive space. It's like skincare. We're not gonna have reviews in the beginning. You know what? In the beginning we're gonna keep ad budgets really lean and we have a really good brand recognition. We're just gonna leverage brand recognition because we know the conversion rates are gonna be there. It's gonna help us get the initial products. But we also are understanding that if that's the strategy we're running again a little bit more limited, just leveraging brand lower budgets we're not expecting the sales to be exponential in the beginning. So it's like setting expectations and then kind of understanding what makes sense for you at this stage. Shivali Patel: Okay, and, keeping that in mind, the review portion that you're mentioning, right, yeah, you end up like, let's say, for example I'm not sure if I'll pronounce it right, but in Sweat's example right, his question when he's launching, do you end up waiting for the reviews to file in before you are running those ads or do you end up just kind of going in? And of course, there's many moving components, yeah, there's a lot of moving parts. Elizabeth: It depends on what the brand's wants to do. Typically we will start running stuff out of the gate Again. We just kind of set expectations. The reason why ACoS is so high in the beginning is for two reasons. One, your conversion rate tends to be a little bit lower and then, two, your cost per clicks tend to be a little bit higher because you really are trying to get aggressive to be able to get that visibility on the product and then over time, ideally, conversion rates improve because you get more reviews and then cost per clicks hopefully go down as you optimize. So between those two things, that helps it get better. So we just set expectations with like hey, because conversion rates are low means it takes more clicks to convert, which means ACoS is gonna be a little bit higher and we expect potentially sales not to be still or out of the gate. Sometimes it'll be surprised. Sometimes you launch a product and you're like, wow, this is amazing, this thing just absolutely took off and I hope for all of you listening, that is the case for you and your new products, but it's not always the case. So it's really more setting expectations and then just deciding what makes sense for you. Shivali Patel: Why would someone create like a branded campaign If they've already have their standard stuff? Do you maybe want to talk a little bit about branded campaigns? Elizabeth: Yeah, there's two kinds of branded campaigns. One is considered branded, or maybe brand defense is what you might call it. One of them is you have a whole bunch of products. Which you might do is you would advertise your own products on your other listings. The goal of that is you'd be like, hey, if somebody is going to click off, they might as well click onto my own product. Again, it's called a defensive strategy because you're plugging people off and refer to it. It's like plugging the ad spots. My competition can't get this ad spot on my listing. The other thing that you might do is if you have any branded searches happening so people searching your brand on Amazon then what you can do is you can again advertise your own products. Elizabeth: There's a lot of debate out there. They're like, oh, if I already have people searching for my brand, why in the world would I be spending on it? Because they're going to convert for my brand anyways. Yeah, there's arguments to be made. The things that you can do is you actually track your share of search in using search query performance reports to look at your own branded traffic and be like am I losing out on sales through my branded traffic? That's something you can do if you want to be like, is it worth it for me to run? But the second thing and the one I was referring to when I was talking about that more specific launch that we're doing is if you have great brand recognition meaning there's a lot of people searching for your brand you've already built up a lot of traffic to your current listings and you have a new product that fits very well into that brand. Elizabeth: So example I just gave was we have a brand that has a skincare line. Right, they have their launching complimentary products. They have really good repeat purchase rates. What we can do is for people searching their brand, we can make sure that the new products are then advertised and show up high on their branded search, where they might show up lower before if we weren't leveraging ads for that. And then what happens is someone's typing in the brand like oh, wow, there's a new product from this brand. Awesome, and most likely not always, but of course you know you read the data, but most likely you're going to get people purchasing very similar. You know you can use ads to be able to get visibility again on your own products, but you're using your new offering. So that's kind of a way to like. If you have a good brand, share to be like. Hey, I got a new product. I want to try it out using ads. Shivali Patel: Got it, and I see Sasha has a question here, and it is what's the best way to research Amazon keywords for low competition products? And I'll go ahead and add as well what do you do in the case if, let's say, there is not necessarily a market, maybe it's a brand new product that doesn't end up having any sort of crossover? You're creating a sub niche. Elizabeth: Yes, those are the most difficult. The two most difficult products to advertise for are one to your point of like there really is no relevant traffic for it. Or two, when you only have one keyword that has any search volume and there's like nothing else besides one or two keywords, because every single one of your competitors knows those one or two keywords and there's really not anything else to choose from. So there's not really a way to like play a sophisticated game. You just got to like grin and bear it in those categories, which is like kind of painful sometimes. So reword I mean your keyword research is really going to be exactly the same as for any other product. You're going to be looking at your competitors, seeing what they rank you for. I mean, we use Helium 10, love Helium 10, just did a walkthrough of how we did keyword research using Helium 10. Like it's a really great tool. Elizabeth: The one different way that we have of generating your first keyword. We actually generate two keyword less in the beginning. So what we'll do is we'll use, say, like a commonly searched keyword. So a lot of times people will start with like all right, type in a commonly searched keyword and then like, look at the ranked competitors, choose them, you know, choose the relevant ones and then go through that. What we will do is we will take that first you know pretty general keyword that we're pretty sure is relevant to the products, and what we'll do is we'll type that into. Elizabeth: I'm going to get them mixed up. I'm going to say it's magnet, it's the keyword research tool, so you type it in and then you look at search, so you sort by search volume and what we'll do is we'll actually go down that first list and find what we call our highest search volume, most relevant keyword. So what you're looking for is the intersection between where you actually have good shop or search, and it is also relevant to your product, because the more hyper relevant you get to the product, typically speaking, not always the lower your search volume is going to be. On those keywords You're like all right, what's my top of the mountain? Because oftentimes people will be like, oh, metal cup, that's a great keyword, yes, but it's not highly relevant keyword. So you're looking for, like women's metal cup for running or something like is there a good search volume there? How can I like niche down a set? And then what we'll do is we'll take that search page for a highly relevant keyword and use that as our springboard to find our top competitors. Shivali Patel: So we do also have a question from David where he asks how would you use not sure what that's supposed to say for top competitive keywords when your product have multiple attributes such as gold diamond ring, gold solid hair ring and engagement rings should I run through, bro, on each? I'm assuming that's just supposed to be. How would you search for top competitive keywords? So? Yeah so I would, I would just look for. Elizabeth: I would look for whatever is the highest relevancy, highest search volume, one that's going to give it and you're going to have a lot of applicable keywords. So the walkthrough that I did I think it's just yesterday what we did is we were looking at baby blanket, and what we start doing with our final keyword list when we're looking again we're prioritizing relevancy is you will find what we call buckets of keywords, right. So when I was doing baby blanket, it was like girls receiving blanket, receiving blanket for boys, like some like okay, there's a bunch of girl keywords and their bunch of boy keywords and these are actually a little bit related to specific variations. You can start getting really sophisticated with it. But as you do that keyword research and as you're looking for that relevancy, you're probably going to find a lot of these buckets. So what we'll do on launch is we'll like take our group out and be like okay, so to your point, we have a bunch of diamond keywords. Elizabeth: Oh wait, I have a bunch of solitary keywords, right. So you can actually group those. I can take all my solitary ones and be like hmm, I wonder if the search term solitaire is. I wonder if people like my product in relation to that search. Okay, so let me take that out. Let me put those in their own campaign. I'll label the campaign like solitary keywords or something and then I would advertise the products there or engagement ranks, right, okay, maybe that's applicable to my products. Let me again pull those out and put them in a subgroup and a campaign. The reason why I like doing this is because then I can just scan campaign manager instead of having to like go in and like, look at a campaign with, like the solitaire keywords, engagement ring keywords, gold, diamond keywords. I can be like, oh, these are sub group in campaigns and then when I'm in campaign manager, I can simply look at how each of those three campaigns are performing and be like oh, wow, it seems like gold, diamond ring keywords actually perform best and you still want to analyze at a keyword level. But that makes it a little bit more scalable to like understand shop or search behavior in relation to your product. Shivali Patel: Now I see that David also would like to know about the filter for keyword sales filter, which it is essentially just telling you on average how many sales occur for that particular keyword every single month. So that's really what you're looking at there, but, Elizabeth, maybe you want to expand on whether that's something that you end up looking at when you're doing your keyword research for these different brands that you work with. Elizabeth: I don't really Everything honest. The two things that I look at actually probably three things is I would like to look at. We look at numbers to the count of competitors that are ranking again, because we're doing that whole like find, you know, do the first list to find the second keyword, to find the really really super specific products. So if you can find good super specific products, then you can kind of like use their ranking on the keywords. So actually I love that Helium 10 added in that column because it was one that a lot of us were like calculating. Elizabeth: When I'm like God, I don't have to do the formula, I just already filter for the list, so it's really awesome. So we'll download that list and then you know, we'll just see what's the highly relevant and the kind of cross check that with search volume you can use. I don't think it's a bad idea to use, you know, kind of like the sales volume, because sometimes what you'll find is that even though there's like a high search volume, if the keyword is sort of like a little bit broader keyword, you might actually not have as much sales volume through those keywords as you would think. So it's not a bad idea to analyze it at all. We just find if we're like again, we're super honed in on that relevancy factor, then we tend to come up with the ones that have better sales volume anyways. Shivali Patel: Okay, I think that's really, really insightful. We also have Sergio. Sergio, do you like to use the same keywords for each campaign in broad phrase, and exact campaigns? Elizabeth: I do. I would say the one sort of not qualifier would put on it, the one thing you should be aware of. I would recommend keeping the bids lower in the broad and the phrase match. I don't always agree with Amazon's recommendations, but if you listen to their recommendations on this, they actually recommend that you keep it lower. Shivali Patel: And Sasha has a question. If I was to start selling a product that has a monthly volume of 60,000 units a month, how should I position myself? Should I run out? Elizabeth: I would first want to know how the product performs. That's your first goal. You want to figure out what your average cost per click is and you want to figure out what your actual conversion rate is. Once you have those factors, you can actually start building production models and sales production models and stuff. Actually, it's not hard to build or not search. You want to search traffic production models based on oh, I want to hit $50,000 a month in products, this is my conversion rate. What you need is you need your conversion rates. You really need your conversion rates is the main one, and then you're going to need your cost per clicks in the ads to be like all right, this is what it's going to cost me. Right now, you're going off of nothing. I know I've said it about 20 different times on this live, but I'm going to say it again relevancy, focus on your exact target market, see what your numbers tell you, and then you can build up from there. Shivali Patel: I think that's a good plan, so hopefully that is helpful for you. Sasha, I see we have Sweat's leaving, but he has found the response was informative. Now I wanted to touch on something we talked about at the beginning of this call, which is Q4, right, we've been talking a little bit about auditing your strategy and some general PPC knowledge, but also what about, I'm sure a lot of you guys that are watching? If you're already selling, then you probably aren't full swing. Maybe you've already gone ahead and optimized your listings for Q4. But what happens if maybe somebody is just starting to be like oh no, I completely dropped the ball? Do you have? Hopefully, not Hopefully, none of you guys are in that position, but let's say something like that happens, sort of maybe if you have a take on what somebody can do to make sure that they're still able to tap in on Q4's potential. Elizabeth: Yeah, so we're assuming it's a brand new launch product and we have nothing. Shivali Patel: We can assume that they've been selling for a while, but they haven't changed anything for Q4. Elizabeth: Got it, got it, got it. Ok, no, that's fine. So I would say if you're already selling, most likely you probably have some ad structure. You're not in a bad spot. Ok, q4, right before Black Friday, December and Monday, we're not launching a whole bunch of test campaigns. Don't do it, because what happens is Black Friday, Cyber Mondays Really, what you're doing, you don't get same. Elizabeth: I know there's not really data available, but honestly, nobody's really looking at that. An inside campaign manager. You're not going to be able to say, oh OK, I got 20. My ACOS was so much better this last hour, so let me increase these budgets, right? What you have to do is you have to look back at historical data. So if you want to test anything, do it before this week is out. Get those campaigns up, get that data, because you're going to be completely flying blind If you launched a bunch of stuff a day before. You're completely flying blind on performance metrics and it's so easy because of how many clicks are happening on the platform to really lose your shirt. So I would say, if you're like oh my gosh, I don't have any specific campaign set up for Black Friday, so that's fine, you're actually in a really good spot. So what you want to do these weeks leading up to it you actually still have time you want to go into your account and you want to evaluate what is working now, what is crushing it right now, and then I'm going to make sure, as that traffic comes in, that those have good budgets. I have healthy bids on them. Elizabeth: To be honest, days of for the most part, unless we have a really specific keyword on a very specific brand, they're like we have to be aggressive when we must win top of search for this particular keyword. For the most part, we're adjusting budgets. Day of is our typical optimizations. So what we're doing prior to that is we're like all right, if we're going to be increasing budgets, we want to make sure that all of this is super solid. So you're doing two things. One, you're identifying all the stuff that really works and you're like all right, I need to make sure again, budgets are healthy, bids are healthy, all my optimizations are done. And then the second thing we're doing and this is also very important is what is all the stuff that's not working, meaning Clips with no Sales? Where are all my high costs, low sale keywords going on? Here's a good one. What are all my untested stuff, that I've just been increasing bids. So it's so easy. Elizabeth: If you're like normal optimizations, right, we're going to go in what has no impressions, increase the bids. We do this as well. It is not a bad practice. What often happens, especially if you don't have any caps so we have caps, we're like, all right, we're never going to increase past x amount of dollars or whatever If you don't have any caps. Sometimes what happens is you're like you can end up with like $10 bids. Elizabeth: So what I would recommend doing go into your targeting tab. I would filter for everything with zero orders, or you could just leave it totally blank, sort by the bid what has the highest bid in your account and you might look at it and be like holy crap, I had no idea that was in there. And what you want to do is what we call a bid reset. So you're just looking at all this stuff and you're like, hey, it's not getting any impressions. Anyways, it's not going to hurt me if I lower my bids, but then at least I know when that traffic hits all of a sudden that random keyword that didn't have any search volume, that I had like $10 bid on. It's not going to like pop off and waste all of my ad budgets. Elizabeth: There's another filter that is really helpful to identify the irrelevant stuff. I'm not saying pause all these things. I'm saying use this filter to bring to the top everything that you're like how the heck did that get in there? Because it's super easy. When we're looking in our search term reports we're like, oh, this converted once. Let me go test it Again. Great practice. What happens is sometimes you get these random things in the account so easy for it to happen. So what you do is you go again. Targeting tab is going to be your friend here. You're going to want to filter for anything that has what is it? Zero clicks, zero, maybe once, two clicks. Elizabeth: We're looking for impressions. It has probably at least 1,000 impressions on it and you want to filter the click-through rate by anything that is lower than maybe a 0.2 or 0.15. So this says it's got a lot of impressions, it's not really doing anything in terms of sales volume and it's got really bad click-through rates. And then sort that by either your click-through rates highest or lowest to highest, or you can maybe start by impressions, highest to lowest. So what you're trying to do is what it has a bunch of eyeballs that nobody cares about and what you're doing is that brings up. Elizabeth: So a lot of people saw it. Not. A lot of people clicked on it, which oftentimes means irrelevant stuff, and because it's only got a couple clicks, there's not a lot of data, so it hasn't moved into our optimization sequences. So again, it's just a once over of the account. The first time you do this you'll probably be like what the heck, why is that there? And then, if you find that great pause, it put low bids on it, just kind of. Again, we're doing clean up. If you don't find anything that doesn't make sense for you, conkudos to. You're doing really, really good targeting. But either way, it's a really good thing to give it a once over before again traffic hits and things kind of go crazy. Shivali Patel: Now we do also have your keyword sale filter. Says 89 with low search volume, and another keyword has 20 keyword sales but a higher search volume. Is there one that you would kind of opt for? I know you said you don't typically look at the keyword sales Filter. Elizabeth: Yeah. So the two things I would look for is one I'm gonna say again, relevancy. I believe in it so strongly, I'm gonna say it again. And then the other thing that you would look at is, you know, the Helium sandwich. Again, another thing that I appreciate that you guys have added to the download keyword reports is the Recommended bits. Now, again, you guys are pulling them direct from the API, like Amazon does provide the recommended bits. However, as we all know, like if you go in you launch campaign, you like add different products, the recommended bids change, so their benchmarks don't take them as gospel, but they are really helpful to again kind of help you identify how competitive a particular keyword is over the other. So, like a budget's were concerned, you're like, well, you know, this one has like 20 sale, like the sales volume is pretty good, but like, wow, that one's Really competitive. I got to pay two dollars cost per click versus the other one where I'm like, well, I only have to pay like 50 cents cost per click. That probably would play into my decision. Shivali Patel: Okay, all right, there's. I know I said to, but let's just do this last one and then we'll. We'll call it. And so how do you structure your top keyword campaigns versus your complementary keywords? I know we briefly touched on this earlier. Elizabeth: Yeah, so I will cash with. So I saying I'm not a huge fan of doing everything as a single keyword campaign. I think it's way too overkill. You end up getting way more confused than you do in sight From doing it like that. That being said, if we do, I definitely have like a top keyword. We are going to put that in a single keyword, exact, match, specific campaign. The sort of it depends Questions and answers that I always give is the more the higher amount of Control I need over where I'm going to be directing my ad spend, the less keywords I want to have. Then more important it is for me to gain impressions on this keyword. For, again, for my campaign strategy, the less keywords I'm going to have. So if it is a top keyword, if it's my main ranking keyword, if it's super, super important to me, single keyword campaign right, because that's I need to control ad spend. I need a lot of impressions on this and super, super important versus another keyword set, right. Maybe I don't really have it. So the other, very other end of the spectrum is going to be like a whole bunch of a Campaign that actually works really well. Elizabeth: For us is single word meaning, like you know, cup bowl dish In broad match low bits. Do not put high-pits on these. Even if you have great ACoS, don't put high bits. Not a good idea. But we'll run these all the time. But what happens is because we cap our bids at, say, I think it's from 25 cents, maybe 30 cents, maybe in 15 cents. We never intend to grow our bids past that, right. Elizabeth: So how is it important for me to control ad spend at the campaign level? Not really because I'm controlling it at my bid level, right. How important is it for me to gain impressions? Not really because I'm expecting half of these keywords to not get impressions whatever. So I would be fine with putting, you know, say, 50, 100 keywords in that campaign, right, because for me it makes no sense to create 10 different campaigns that I have to like keep an eye on, versus just one important like oh yeah, that's that strategy and that's kind of like my background thing, right. So I would look at it through that lens again. How important is it for me to control spend at the campaign level? And then, how important is it for me to gain Impressions on these particular keywords? The more infatily you answer yes to those two questions, the less keywords you should have in that campaign. The more you don't really care about those two things, or they don't really matter as much then I would be okay with a lot more keywords. Shivali Patel: Alright, well, wonderful. Thank you so much, Elizabeth, for your time and your information, your knowledge. We appreciate it. I know a lot of people learned quite a bit. Sasha says thank you. We have sweat who says you know he was also waiting on those other questions that you were answering. That was very informative, so we do appreciate it so much. And yeah, that is it for today. You guys will catch you on the next TACoS Tuesday. Thank you! Elizabeth: Awesome! Thanks, I appreciate it.

“We don't like to talk about these things because they're not sexy,” says Elizabeth Coleman Gordan, of the work required to actually implement change in communities. She and her husband Geoffrey, join Michael for part two of their conversation about the political climate in Arizona as the mid-term elections approach. Michael and Geoffrey both agree that too many people expect instant gratification, and aren't realistic about the political process. Several of the most pressing issues of the day are discussed. The hypocrisy of the way we both shun immigrant populations, while relying on their labor. The factors that led to inflation and supply chain issues that, despite Republican talking points, have nothing to do with Joe Biden. And why the overturning of Roe v. Wade may be what tips Arizona elections in the Democrats favor. As a biracial couple, Elizabeth and Geoffrey discuss their experience of raising three young men through the Trump era, why America needs to put in some hard work, and how their predominantly white area has been shifting more towards diversity. Quotes “Honestly, when people are accepting aid, or they know someone who's accepting aid, it's because well, they're one of the good ones. But those people getting aid, that other kind of aid, they're not one of the good ones. Folks, in so many ways, if you were on the island from Lord of the Flies, you 100% would have killed that little Piggy boy. Really, you would not have been one of those supportive, cooperative, loving, great and kind people. You would have massacred each other and it's sad to see it.” (34:18-35:02 | Elizabeth) “Infrastructure isn't sexy. The solutions aren't going to be easy. The solution for infrastructure is almost always going to be some kind of attack so that you can rebuild or increase infrastructure. The solution to the water problem is, ‘Hey, guess what, nobody gets to have lawns. You need to have either rocks or fake grass because we can't be spending money on lawns.” (38:51-39:21 | Elizabeth) “For me, there's this concern that we're not going to be able to do hard things. Doing hard things takes practice. And if we get out of the practice of putting our heads together, as citizens, as constituents, as legislators, and doing hard things, then we're not going to be in a position 20 years down the road, 40 years down the road, where other nations are willing to do the hard things, to really put in that time. America has always been known to put in the hard work, even despite all of her issues, she has been known to put in this hard work.” 42:39-43:18 | Geoffrey) Links cuckoo4politics.com https://www.instagram.com/cuckoo_4_politics/ https://www.facebook.com/Cuckoo-4-Politics-104093938102793 Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Elizabeth Harris, a devoted mother, author, and science-minded business owner with more than two decades of experience in the field of health and wellness. Elizabeth's scientific training, life experience, drive, and entrepreneurial spirit proved to be the very things that saved the life of both herself and her son after they were diagnosed with a rare and very serious auto immune condition. In 2008, Elizabeth's son came down with a common case of strep throat and after receiving antibiotics he seemed to be feeling better. But then, his behavior became erratic. After consulting numerous doctors, specialists and undergoing multiple tests, Elizabeth's son was diagnosed with Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorders Associated with Streptococcal Infections (PANDAS). They were prescribed psychiatric medication and then sent home. But then, her son got worse. He began having uncontrollable compulsions and ended up facing the justice system. Elizabeth shares her epic and emotional story of how she decided to take matters into her own hands to solve her son's mysterious health conditions. She dedicated several years of her life to finding the root cause of her son's illnesses and she's now helping thousands of people understand how many unexplainable autoimmune diseases go undiagnosed and how they can be treated in her book, What's Wrong With My Child. Other topics covered in this podcast: how and why the health system is broken, the atrocities of the US Juvenile Courts System and more.   More about Elizabeth: For over two decades, Elizabeth has owned La Bella é Famosa Spa, a highly successful facial and body contouring spa in Nashville. She has also developed her own skincare line and cellulite reduction device. She is currently pursuing a Master's Degree in Molecular Medicine and has a degree in biology and chemistry from Murray State University with training in nutrition, physical fitness and cardiac rehab from the American College of Sports Medicine. Elizabeth is also the author of America is infected and What's Wrong With my Child which is real released this week. Find Elizabeth Harris at:   Website: www.whatswrongwellness.com Facebook: @elizabethharrisauthor Instagram: @elizabethharrisauthor Discussed on the PODCAST: Book Launch Oct 26th – ‘What's Wrong With My Child' Elizabeth Harris - https://whatswrongwellness.com/pre_order.php Book - ‘America Is Infected' Elizabeth Harris Molecular labs - Cunningham panel – PANDAS test - https://www.moleculeralabs.com/cunningham-panel-pandas-pans-testing/ James Lehman – Total Transformation Program - https://www.empoweringparents.com/ Dr Latimer, Washing, DC, IV immunoglobulin - https://www.bethlatimermd.com/ Dr Rosario Trifiletti – https://www.pandaspansinstitute.com/ CDC – Centre For Disease Control and Prevention Film & Book – Brain on Fire, Sushanna Cahalan - https://www.amazon.ca/Brain-Fire-My-Month-Madness/dp/1451621388/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1635548153&sr=8-1 Book – The Brain That Changed Itself, Norman Doidge - https://www.amazon.ca/Brain-That-Changes-Itself-Frontiers/dp/0143113100/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1635548172&sr=8-2 Dr Garth Nicolson www.inmed.org Mycoplasma Experiments Conducted in Texas Prisons - http://www.whale.to/m/mycoplasma5.html Rheumatic Fever -  https://www.cdc.gov/groupastrep/diseases-public/rheumatic-fever.html Get Off Your FAAT ASS - https://nicolette-richer.mykajabi.com/get-off-your-f-a-a-t-ass-october-round-1 If you are currently battling a Chronic Degenerative Disease, Nicolette is doing one on one consultations again. Go to www.nicolettericher.com to set up an appointment today! Our 22M Bike tour is still happening once the world returns to its new normal. Find out more about and support our 22 Million Campaign here - http://www.richerhealth.ca/ Want to improve your health… Click here to access our FREE resources so you can live your best life! https://nicolettericher.com/free-stuff Find out ways you can work with Nicolette to improve your health here: https://nicolettericher.com/work-with-me Join Nicolette at one of her retreats https://richerhealthretreatcentre.com/ Find out more about our non-profit society Sea to Sky Thrivers - https://seatoskythrivers.com/ Want to know more about Nicolette's Green Moustache Café's https://www.greenmoustache.com/ Sign up for the Eat Real to Heal Online Course - https://nicolettericher.com/eat-real-to-heal Buy the Eat Real to Heal Book here: https://www.amazon.ca/Eat-Real-Heal-Medicine-Arthritis/dp/163353782X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1567629190&sr=8-1

PMI Talent Triangle: Technical Welcome to the PMO Strategies Podcast + Blog, where PMO leaders become IMPACT Drivers! Today I am super excited to share an extremely important topic for all of us as PMO leaders and those leveraging the power of project management to make an IMPACT. We are going to be talking about the importance of mentoring, and both being a mentor and finding one. And how that can be transformational for your career, being on both sides of the fence as a mentor and a mentee. And the perfect person to talk to us about all of this is my friend, Elizabeth Harrin. Elizabeth is a healthcare project manager with over 15 years of experience in the field. She's the author of several books about project management and I highly recommend you check them out. So we'll make sure that we have them in the show notes for you. And she writes the award-winning blog, A Girl's Guide to Project Management. Welcome Elizabeth. Thank you for being here today. Learn the best-kept secrets to creating a PMO that drives IMPACT.  The LIVE dates are over, but you can still access this content with the Unlimited Access Pass!.fusion-button.button-227 {border-radius:2px;}UNLIMITED ACCESSLaura:  Elizabeth, we have been chatting as a part of your role in providing a lot of value for the PMO IMPACT Summit. As we were talking a lot about the role of women in organizations, and finding confidence, and building confidence, one of the things that we talked about, one of the pieces of really important guidance that you shared was about mentorship, and both being a mentor and finding a mentor. I thought it'd be really important to share with everyone that listens to the PMO Strategies podcast about that role of mentorship. Because it's not just about women, it's not just about men, it's not just about certain environments. Everyone should have a mentor and find an opportunity to become a mentor. Can you talk to me about your experience with that and what guidance you have for people that are looking for mentorship? Elizabeth: For me, mentorship is the relationship where you have with someone where you can talk to and be confident in the advice that you're getting. I think you're right, people don't always understand what it is and how it differs from coaching. And for me, I understand it in a very simple way. Coaches will help you to uncover the solution yourself, by asking you very probing questions, or "How do you think you might be able to tackle that problem?" And things like that. Whereas a mentor would be someone you'd sit down with a cup of coffee with and say, "I've got this difficult challenge at work. Tell me how you'd do it." And they would share their stories. There is a part of mentoring where you're helping people develop their skills, and it's fine to ask them probing questions, but I think I feel better at mentoring and coaching because I am very opinionated. And I like to share my history and tell people how to do things. So I think for me it's a much more practical perhaps partnership than a coaching partnership, where you are building your skills through deeper analysis perhaps. Although both can be valuable. Mentoring is more common in a workplace setting, I think, because coaching seems to be something that the leaders get to do. Whereas everybody can have a mentor at any level in the organization. You can be a mentor and have a mentor at the same time, and both are fantastic opportunities for personal development. Laura: Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you're saying it that way because I think that's been my experience as well. I've had both mentors and coaches. And to me the coaches were always asking questions and probing, but never really shared their own experiences. And what I love about a mentoring relationship is that it's so much more about a conversation, and sharing stories and experiences, on both sides, so that there's a different way to learn. It's not just let's do some deep dive analysis on your strengths...

Join our growing entrepreneur community on Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/139597470073188/ Got any questions? Ask me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/AleksanderVitkinPage/ Check out my free business training: www.businessmentor.com Aleks: Hi, this is Aleksander Vitkin and I’m here with Elizabeth, and Elizabeth is a member of the Business Mentor Insiders which is our Mastermind at businessmentor.com, and she’s been doing quite well in business recently so I decided to invite her over. She’s from London, but she’s right now visiting her family in Ghana, so welcome Elizabeth. Aleks: So what has been happening in your business over the past six months, what is some good news that you can share? So I guess you started a while back, and then six months ago what is the best news from the last six months? Elizabeth: For the last six month, is when my business really kicked off. I was getting in a decent amount of revenue, in fact triple what I was getting in the work I was doing before. And over the last couple of months my perfect margins have become somewhat stable and quite a decent amount of what I make is purely from business at this point. Aleks: So when you started, you were already doing business part-time, so you were doing like 20 hours, is that correct? Or how many hours were you doing business when you started? Elizabeth: Yeah, about 20 hours per week was dedicated to learning and starting a business. Aleks: Right, and how did it go back then? So in the early stages of your marketing agency, how did it go, how were things running your business? Elizabeth: It was, I think the best word to describe it is stressful, right. It was a little bit unpredictable. It was quite a new world to me, so although I’ve always been somebody who works by myself so I had a kind of freelance mentality, let’s say. I know the amount of work I put in is how much I get out, but at the same time it was always a struggle because you know you’re in a big pool with a lot of people competing for the same prize, essentially. So, that was a really difficult hurdle to get over both impracticality and as a mental hurdle that was something difficult to get past. But with the kind of, with the support that I’ve been getting within the group, so speaking to yourself and various other mentors within the group, the coaching has been a great guide to overcoming both the mental roadblocks and then the literal roadblocks I have been facing whilst trying to build my business. Aleks: Right, I guess last August was one of your best months, so what led you from doing kinda average in business, running kind of an average part-time almost hobby to building a business where you were, what was your top month, it was like 6.8K, 6.9K? Elizabeth: Yeah, 6.9 so in August is when I kind of really made up my mind to take on board. So I’ve been, I have been taking on board what even the other coaches and mentors have been saying but I think still I wasn’t dedicating enough of my attention to starting my business. So in August, I decided I was going to take out two weeks where I was going to treat it like a full-time business, something that was going to help, you know, sustain my life. Something I could properly grow and have a full vision for. So I was able to make 6.9K in sales that month, and one thing that really really helped me was also bringing on additional support in my team to make certain aspects of my business, such as lead generation, for example, more consistent because essentially without that you don’t have a business in the first place. I am a social skills mentor, is the name and job that I did, that I still do actually. So I work with young children from really really young, as young as two, who have autism spectrum disorder or related disorders and my objective is to help them develop the social skills that they need to, you know, engage better in society, engage better with their parents, work, and school, and so on and so forth.

Episode 13 of The Teaching Space Podcast is an interview with Elizabeth Hutchinson from the Schools' Library Service in Guernsey. Podcast Episode 13 Transcript Welcome to The Teaching Space podcast, coming to you from Guernsey in the Channel Islands.  Hello, and welcome to Episode 13 of The Teaching Space Podcast. It's Martine here, thank you so much for joining me. In today's episode, I'm interviewing Elizabeth Hutchinson from the Schools' Library Service in Guernsey.  Martine: Welcome, Elizabeth. Elizabeth: Hello there, nice to be here. Martine: Lovely to have you here. Rather than me do the introductions, I'm going to kick off with a question to you. Who are you and what do you do? Elizabeth: Okay. I'm Head of the Schools' Library Service in Guernsey. I'm a librarian, and I support the school libraries across the Bailiwick of Guernsey. We look after and support all primary schools, all secondary schools, and we even fly across to Alderney to support them too. Martine: Fantastic. It's a busy job then, by the sounds of things. Elizabeth: It is. I've got a nice little team, which is good. We sort of share the schools between us. We each allocate, I allocate schools to individual librarians so that schools expect to see the same person most of the time. Of course we're sharing across our resources too, so it's a bit of an unusual role for us to play because it's a support service that we offer, but we work very closely with schools and teachers, which is our aim really. Martine: What do people think the role of the school librarian is, and what is it really? Two questions in one there. Elizabeth: Okay, well our service is slightly different, we are providing the professional school librarian role. Throughout the years that I've worked at Schools' Library Service, there is a very clear misconception on what a school librarian does. There are two people that you would see within a school library, one is a library assistant whose job is to issue the books and look after the day to day running of the school library. The other one is the professional school librarian, and their role is very different from what most people think a librarian does. Our role as a school librarian is just to work alongside the teachers and the curriculum. Our role is to support information literacy, which is the ability for anyone to find access, evaluate, give credit, and use good quality information. We provide resources and support in accessing those resources. There are the book loans from the Schools' Library Service that you can get from your own school library, but there's also the online resources. Our role is to support the students in using those effectively. What we find is that students are very good at doing that Google search, that question into Google and hoping that the answer's going to pop out. As you progress through your academic schooling you need to be using better quality academic resources or be very highly skilled in evaluating the resources that you're finding. We work with them to make sure that they understand a keyword search, that they understand that in any academic source you cannot type a question, that you have to think about what you're looking for, and actually how you tweak those keywords to actually find what you need. The more students look online for information, the less skilled they get at actually finding what they really need. That's where we're sort of, our main aim at the moment is, is to support that. Is that the new Guernsey curriculum has changed incredibly recently to look at the skillset. This is what school librarians have always done, the skill of research. We are now in a brilliant position to be able to go, well the skills that we have are the skills that we can teach your students, and what you've highlighted that you need at the moment. It's interesting times for a school librarian I think. Martine: It strikes me that the role of the school librarian has changed dramatically over the past sort of 20 years or so, but ultimately as you said, it comes down to research and helping students learn how to research properly. I guess it's not the sort of fundamentals of the role that's changed, it's where you're looking for the information has changed a little bit perhaps. Elizabeth: Oh absolutely. If you think about when we were back at school. Our research was probably the school library, but it was books. You could always copy and paste, but you'd actually have to hand write it. The chances of you being caught for doing that was quite unlikely unless the teacher was probably going down to the library to check the books that you were copying from. We live in a world now where information is really freely available and really easy to access. It's even easier to plagiarise but even easier to get caught. It's those skills, that skillset that has suddenly become very usable and shareable and people want them. It's a much wider world out there, and actually far more opportunities. Our skillset has had to adapt and change, but it has in a very exciting way, opened doors that I couldn't have imagined at the beginning of my career. Martine: It's a good time to be a school librarian, is what you're saying? Elizabeth: Absolutely, really exciting. Do you know, just the opportunity to share ideas on social media, talk to experts in our profession in a way that was just not possible before, has up-skilled all of us in a way that just wasn't possible. Having a personal learning network on social media has not only helped me to understand my role a bit more, but also helped me learn about things that I can then share with the students that I teach and the teachers that I work with. The worlds of research has really opened up in the last sort of few years and it is exciting times, yeah. I love it. Martine: It's really interesting to hear you talking about social media in that way as well, because I'm in huge agreement with you there, in that I get a massive amount of my CPD directly from Twitter because of all the links people share, and the Twitter chats that go on, and things like that. Technology is really exciting right now and it's great to hear about how the role of the school librarian has adapted to accommodate. Elizabeth: I think as well is that as part of learning and teaching research, I think it's important that we do include these technologies or these tools, because like you said, I too get a lot of my professional development from Twitter, but it's that digital literacy that is also around in school today that we're teaching. Actually if we can help students navigate resources like Twitter within the classroom, it then becomes less of a problem outside. Martine: Definitely. Elizabeth: So instead of us shying away from it, we need to be confident in using it ourselves as teachers to be able to then help the students navigate it. I think I was talking to somebody recently about the negativity, and the bullying, and the trolling that goes on, but actually if we had more people on social media that were brave enough to say, "Hey, that's not a nice thing to say." We drowned out the negatives with the positive then it would be a much better place to be. You can only learn those skills through usage. Actually, if we can learn to use it in a safer environment within the classroom then it would stand the students in better stead for the future I think. Martine: I'm in complete agreement with what you just said, and it almost leads onto a discussion about a topic I want to cover in a future podcast episode, which is this misconception that young people today are digital natives. Everyone seems to think, particularly amongst certain teachers I come across, that the kids today, they all know how to do anything online and they're very comfortable with technology. Yes, in terms of navigating an iPhone or some sort of smartphone, they can do that very easily, but they aren't particularly savvy when it comes to social media, and using technology and social media and things like that professionally. It's all about social. Is that something you've come across in your role at all? Elizabeth: Oh yeah, without a doubt. You know? Even to the extent of just good research, there's a lack of understanding amongst teachers that it is important that they check where their sources are coming from. The only way that that can happen is if we encourage teachers to insist on referencing. I know it sounds boring, do you know? I've had one teacher tell me that it stops the flow of the essay or the research - Martine: Really? Elizabeth: It spoils it, you know? For the understanding that actually where your information is coming from is important to the teacher makes the child then understand the importance for themselves. Once you learn how to reference, it doesn't take that long. If you collect your references as you go through, it is part and parcel of academic writing. Whether you like it or not, that's what we're doing at school, we are writing academically. Even the youngest of students, none of them are generally writing for pleasure. You can create the opportunity to write for pleasure alongside doing the research correctly and it should all just flow into it. You find that international baccalaureate students generally tend to be really good at their referencing because it's an essential part of the course. Teachers who teach GCSE and A Level, it's not. A lot of these students are spoon fed, and I get it, I do understand. Teachers are in a very difficult position that they are judged by their outcomes and teaching to the test and all of this, I get it. I do. But we're not doing our children any favours if we are not helping them to take responsibility for where their information's coming from. We talk about recently the fake news and you live in an internet bubble. I find that really interesting, it's something that I'm particularly interested in myself is that we go back to the social media question, is that we tend to follow the people who have the same ideas as us, share the same views, and reinforce what we believe to be true. That's a really dangerous position to put yourself into, that it's safe because you're not going to read anything that you disagree with, but actually, if we don't teach and encourage our students to actually look beyond that immediate understanding to get a more rounded view, then we are going to ... We're in a very scary position where we can be manipulated into believing that this is the only way for the world to work, or this religion is right, or that political party is correct. Actually, you can only get a full view of the world if you actually understand how you can actually access other sources of information that are going to give you a slightly different view. I find it, that to prevent students or not encourage students to actually go beyond that question into Google, we're opening a huge chasm that we might not ever be able to shut. Actually now is the time to take responsibility and start saying, "This is a serious situation and we as teachers and educators need to actually do something about it when we can," and we can do something about it, you know? Teach them to reference, understand plagiarism, understand the fact that you need to give credit for somebody else's work. All of this is about looking at how we behave online and how we gather our information for our own learning. It has to come and start in a school setting. Martine: The idea of living in an internet bubble, as you described it, is just absolutely terrifying. I mean if you don't ever have to challenge what you see, what you read, what you hear, how are you ever going to learn? It's very, very worrying. Elizabeth: Yeah, it is interesting because I think people forget. I think if you don't live in an information world where you're teaching people to find information, I think it's very easy to forget that ... I think we've had recently, sort of Facebook have tried to change it, but where they were feeding you the things that you want to find rather than what you chose to find. I think you need to be a little bit savvy about ... Or understanding that that is actually what goes on. Martine: Definitely. What you said about referencing and how if you do it as you go along, it's not difficult, that is so true. I'm a Google Certified Trainer, and so I use Google Docs for most academic writing activities with my learners, and it is so easy to reference in Google Docs. It really is straightforward. I shared a video on social a couple of days ago that showed how to do it in about 90 seconds. It was a demonstration that took that long, you know? It is easy, simple and straightforward. As long as you know how to do it, then I don't really understand why people wouldn't be doing it, particularly in Google Docs. Elizabeth: Well exactly. If you are a person who uses Word, there's a referencing tab in Word, which is equally as quick, do you know? When you think back to the dissertations we used to write and you'd spend three or four days putting in your references, literally if you're collecting them as you go along, it's a less than 10-second job to create your bibliography. Why would you not use that, you know? Martine: Exactly. Elizabeth: It is so simple these days. Martine: Talking about things being speedy, how can your school librarian save you time? This is a question on behalf of the teachers, how can your school librarian save you time? Elizabeth: That's an interesting question because I had a discussion with somebody the other day and the things that I thought teachers would understand was time-saving. Turns out to be not so. Martine: Right. Elizabeth H.: Let me explain. Schools' Library Service provides what we call project loans. Teachers can email us and say, "I'm doing Victorians next term with my year six students. I have three or four higher learners and I have about two that will need lower level books." We put together a nice little box, we deliver it to the school, which then lands in their library and they go and collect it and they start using it. That is time-saving. Martine: Yes, I would think so, yeah. Elizabeth: If you are a teacher who sends an email ... So this is what was pointed out to me, if you are a teacher that sends an email once a term and this box magically appears, you forget that actually, it takes time to curate those resources and put what you need into a box and issue it and get it out to you. There is a little bit of lack of understanding of what you are getting on the basic level from a school library, you know? Martine: Okay, yeah. Elizabeth: Obviously we're talking about the fact that we're Schools' Library Service and we have a centralized collection. If your school library itself has the resources that you need you could just ask your school librarian to do the same thing. I understand that there are people probably listening to your podcast that don't have a Schools' Library Service or do have a librarian in their library but had not ever thought to have that conversation. So please do. If you want resources for your classroom, then start with your school librarian or contact your Schools' Library Service and books will magically appear and save you time, because then you don't have to go and look for them. Martine: Which is fabulous. Elizabeth: It is. Other time-saving initiatives that we've looked at and started doing recently is helping teachers and classes connect with other students in classes across the world. The Guernsey curriculum is all about outside, and we're learning outside the classroom, and learning from experts beyond the walls of your classroom. A lot of teachers don't have time to find those connections and those collaborations, and it is one of the things that Schools' Library Service has worked hard at, at building up our contacts and opening the doors of the classroom. For instance, in the last few years, we have connected our students with students in India who were doing an Indian topic. They were able to talk to and ask questions of Indian students who are the same age as them. They were able to share the information about what Guernsey is like to those same students. It sort of puts a different perspective on what creating a good question looks like. For me as a librarian, my role is not only to connect these students, but it's also to make sure that the skillset is right, so going back to that information literacy role for this particular Indian collaboration we made sure that the children understood what made a good question. Them being able to ask those questions directly to somebody else changes your understanding of what makes a good question. What we found interesting was that some of the questions weren't so good and they got a very poor response or a poor answer. Actually, as the session went on you could see the children were changing the questions as they carried on. Their questioning got better, so it's about learning real ... What is it called? Real-world learning, and it does make a difference. Martine: What a fantastic learning experience for them. I bet there'll remember that for the rest of their lives, that session where they talked to kids in India. I mean that's great. Elizabeth: Yeah, and it's learning on all sorts of different levels. We had a class locally talking to experts on African penguins, and they were taken around a nature reserve via Skype. It was, again, so different from that experience of reading the information from a book or online, you know? We save teachers' time by creating and generating these connections and collaborations, and enabling them to have innovative lessons in a way that they wouldn't have done before, you know? I think for me our role has changed, you wouldn't automatically think that a school librarian is about collaboration, but anybody that you collaborate with is a learning opportunity, and librarians are about learning and finding information. If finding information is found via a person, then that's just as good as finding it in a book or online, do you know? It's all-encompassing. Martine: That's fantastic. I'm really starting to get a feel for how that role has developed. I'm certainly sensing from you the passion you have for sharing your experience of it. I'm also getting a real technology vibe from you too. I work very closely with our librarian at the College of Further Education and she's very, very tech savvy, and that's what we work closely on, technology for learning. I've always been amazed at how if you go for the kind of old, as we've identified, misconception of the school librarian ... I mean our librarian, Rachel, is the exact opposite of that. She's really techy, and she's always looking for the latest innovation to enhance learning. I've always been really impressed with that. I mean clearly with what you've been describing, you're a massive advocate for technology for learning as well, but how else do you work with teachers to enhance their understanding of technology for learning and sort of bring new tools to them and things like that? How do you work with teachers in that way? Elizabeth: Our big aim over the last couple of years is to make sure that we understand the tools because unless you understand the tools you can't then help and support teachers to use them. Through our connections online, so usually via Twitter, we have been listening and hearing about what other librarians have been using with their teachers. The latest tools that we have really used widely across the schools is Padlet and Flipgrid. Martine: I love both of those. Elizabeth: Just really useful tools. It's not about how the tool can engage the learner, it's about how it can enhance the teaching. The two together work well in partnership. It's not about providing a piece of innovation or tool that ticks the box that you've actually used technology, it's about how it's going to enhance your learning. Martine: Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Elizabeth: For one example, we run book groups in our schools, so the librarian goes along, sometimes it's part of a lesson, other times it's a book group that is run at a lunchtime. Usually what we try and do is get them to read the same book so that then there's a book discussion. I've got two examples of Padlet enhancing what we were doing, one in primary and one in secondary. In the primary setting we had an author visiting, so Caroline Lawrence, she writes The Roman Mysteries. She had come as one of our Book Week authors last year. Our book group then decided that they were going to read one of her books and I then approached her, because she had been here, to say, "Do you know our students are reading your book, would you mind talking to them about it?" After a bit of a discussion and agreement that she would, we decided that we were going to use Padlet as our platform. Now Padlet is, for those of you that don't know, is like a post-it board online. Basically, you click a plus button and you can add a comment. It also allows other people to comment on your post-it. What we'd agreed with this book ground was that we were going to write questions for Caroline and look back the next week and see what she responded. I happened to manage to get in touch with Caroline just on the day that we were going to be doing the Padlet and told her what time we were going to be on and sent her the link. She appeared during that Padlet session. Martine: That's so cool. Elizabeth: The students were typing the questions and she was responding real time. Martine: I love it. Well, you cannot imagine the excitement of these students. You know, we sometimes worry, don't we, that if you allow something to happen live, we're at risk of students being silly or something going badly wrong, but I do believe genuinely that if you give students the opportunity and you've talked to them about the fact that you're going online and everybody could see, they genuinely behave in a way that is suitable. It's a brilliant learning, there were some amazing questions from that Padlet that we couldn't have got had she not answered real time, because one question led to another, to another. She was brilliant, she responded to as many of those questions as she could. Initially, we had lots of, "You're here. Ooh, exciting." You know? That is part and parcel of expressing how you're feeling about it, not something that's bad because you've been set a task to ask a question. It's about monitoring it and allowing it to happen naturally. Martine: It's just so memorable, like the example earlier with the Indian students, those students will remember that forever. Elizabeth: Of course they will. Of course, they will. Martine: So good. Elizabeth: They have come back and they've wanted to read more Caroline Lawrence books. The impact of that session was not just the fact that they ended up creating brilliant questions, but they were also engaged enough to sort want to continue and read more, and that's what it's all about, reading for pleasure. Okay, so the second example is a book called Wonder that has had international acclaim over the last few months and has actually been made into a book. For those of you that don't know, it's a story about a little boy who has severe facial disfigurements and it's written from several perspectives throughout the book, so it's written from his own perspective, his sister's, his friend's. It's about bullying, friendship, it's about understanding, empathy. It's gone down really well across the schools. We had planned to read the book with our book group in one of our secondary schools. I have a librarian friend who lives in Arkansaw. He is a librarian in a secondary school, so I said that we were going to read this book, did he fancy running a book club on Padlet. We agreed that this would be good, we set up the Padlet, the students themselves discussed the book across Padlet. When I look at the understanding that these children had and their shared ideas, and the variation of voices, it just gives me a tingle when I look at it, you know? We've got children from Nebraska, we've got children from Arkansaw, we've got children from Guernsey all talking about understanding and the importance of empathy. It doesn't matter whether you're from America or from England, those messages are all the same and show the students how people aren't any different. There may be different cultures and different ways of living, but actually, our friendships and our understanding of each other is all very similar. If that's what sharing an online book group is all about, then let's do more of it. Martine: Absolutely. I mean that's just such a great example of how technology for learning is so much more than simply getting learners engaged. I think a lot of people think, like you said, "Oh, we've got to tick a box, we've got to use technology. We've been told we have to." That's kind of one level that I think some people go to. Then the next level is, "Oh well, you know they're always on their phone, so let's use them in sessions and that will engage them." But it is so much more than that. Elizabeth: It is, yeah. Martine: That's exactly what you've just described. I love Flipgrid by the way. Elizabeth: Yeah, me too. Martine: I used it with my adult learners quite recently, because I teach our initial teacher training program at the College of Further Education, and we have one little bit of research that we have to do that isn't terribly exciting, they have to research a couple of different pieces of legislation that affect the role of the teacher. It's really not that exciting. Normally I get them to do it, a written approach to it and so on. This time I allocated the laws and codes of practice and regulations out to various members of the group and I sent them away to do their research. Of course, they noted their sources, so very important. Elizabeth: Good, good. Martine: Essential, as one of them was doing the copyright law so ... So yeah, they went away and they researched and they recorded a 90-second summary video on our Flipgrid sharing what they'd found out. It was so good, it went so well. Normally when they come to do that part of the assignment when they do it on their own, it's very challenging for them because it's just not the exciting subject that they want to be writing about, they want to be writing about the fun stuff of teaching. They did such a great job of it and it was because of the Flipgrid approach to research that we did. They were all quite nervous about using it, interestingly. Elizabeth: Yeah, people don't like having themselves videoed do they? Martine: No. Elizabeth: Actually, that is a skill in itself. Martine: Oh yes. Elizabeth: Condensing what you want to say in 90 seconds. Martine: Exactly. Elizabeth: It's a bit like learning on Twitter, that you have to say it in 140 characters, although I think it's a bit more now isn't it? Martine: It's 280 now I think. Elizabeth: 280, yeah. Actually, those are interesting skills in themselves. If you are anything like me, I'm a bit of a waffler when I write, and actually being made to restrict myself means that you learn to make sure you take the important bits rather than the bits that aren't important. That's where it does help. We also used Flipgrid to, again, talk about ... Again, it was, Wonder was a great book for us. The students in America asked the students in Guernsey what five words could they use to describe the book. We got lots of videos where the students are literally sitting in front of the camera giving five words. The work that's gone into that is far more than those 25 seconds that it takes them to say the words because they've actually had to think about which five words they wanted to choose, and why they were important, and how that was going to sound when they recorded it. They worked really hard at finding those five words. If we had set them a topic where we had just asked them and they were just going to write them down, I don't think you would've got the same engagement, but because they were going to share those with the world, they were then very careful about which five they chose, you know? It does add that extra element, it does add the audience that the children don't have in a school setting very often. Martine: I think for Guernsey students this becomes particularly important because we are living on a very small island and our community isn't as multicultural as perhaps we would like it to be, so students aren't exposed to perhaps as much diversity as students in other parts of the world would be exposed to. By opening the world up to them via technology or social media or whatever, I think it can do nothing but add value. Elizabeth: I've got another example that I'd love to share is that we do a lot of Google Hangouts. There's a thing called Mystery Hangouts where the librarians work together to find a school that would like to connect. You then organise it with the teachers. The teachers know where the other school is, but the students aren't told. The game is that they have to ... They can only ask questions that have a yes or a no answer, and they have to find the other school before they are found. Martine: I love it. Elizabeth: We ran this with Saint Anne's in Alderney, a year 10 group. It was all very exciting. Just to put it in perspective, normally when I used to go to Saint Anne's as the school librarian, I was the school librarian, nobody took any notice of me whatsoever as I walked down the corridors. I went in, I did my job, I worked with the teachers. It was all very similar to what it normally was. This day that I arrived in Alderney there was a buzz about the school, the whole school had heard that this game was going to take place. Everybody wanted to know what was going on. I was a little bit scared because it was actually our first attempt and wasn't sure that everything was going to work, but it thankfully worked beautifully. The game itself gave them good communication skills, it gave them research skills because they had to look at maps and atlases, and think about the questions that they were asking. The big deal for me from that one session was at the end where they were asked to share some information about where they lived, and the American students were very used to doing this kind of thing. They've never done it internationally before, but they'd obviously done Mystery Hangouts with other states in the US. These students had written lists of information about where they lived. We hadn't prepared our students that way. I did worry at that moment where there were lots of arms crossing and there's nothing to tell you about Alderney here. I thought, "Oh dear," you know? "This is where it all falls flat." Until one American student asked the Alderney students what they did after school. Their response was very negative, but it was, "We just go to the beach." They were the perfect words because again it was Arkansaw, they are 13 hours away from any beach. Martine: Oh wow. Elizabeth: They were just so amazed that Alderney students had a beach on their doorstep. The opportunity to pick up the laptop and take the laptop to the window and show the Arkansaw students the beach just suddenly made the Alderney students understand that they had a place in the world. Understand that they had something worth sharing. Martine: And how lucky they are to live in such a beautiful place. Elizabeth: Absolutely. Absolutely. It was a pivotal moment in my understanding of why we do what we do. Martine: Wow. Elizabeth: If I do nothing else in my career, it was a turning point, it was this is why this is so important. We live on a small island, you're right, Alderney is even smaller, but there are children who live in villages, there are children who live in cities, and actually seeing how other children live and it's a way of learning, it has huge potential, doesn't it? It is just an opportunity for us to open the world to them without them having to leave their classrooms, and to share their understanding of their place in the world is something that's really important. The more I can do with that the better as far as I'm concerned. Martine: Brilliant. The working title for this episode and I think I've just decided I'm going to stick with it, is Why It's Time to Get to Know Your School Librarian, and there it is. That's why it's time to get to know your school librarian because your school librarian can help you make amazing learning happen. Thank you, Elizabeth for sharing all of the things you've shared in this episode. That's been fab. Where can people find you online? Elizabeth: Schools' Library Service, Guernsey Schools' Library Service Blog Elizabeth on Twitter Elizabeth's blog Martine: Thank you so much, Elizabeth, that was excellent. You are welcome back on the show anytime. Elizabeth: Thank you, I really enjoyed it.

Stand-up comedian and author Dave O'Neil talks to host Elizabeth Harris at his office at The Grandview Hotel, Fairfield, against a backdrop of motorcycles revving their engines, doors opening and closing, and phones ringing, about: His latest book, The Summer of '82, a tribute to post-VCE life in the 80s and the shenanigans of his youth How to get started as a stand-up comedian Tips for dealing with hecklers when you're performing His days performing in the band Captain Cocoa, the Devo "Energy Dome" train encounter, and how he feels about being recognized in public His upcoming TV show. Find out more about Dave's work at DaveONeil.com.au. FULL TRANSCRIPT Elizabeth: Welcome to Writers’ Tête-à-Tête with Elizabeth Harris, the show that connects authors, songwriters and poets with their global audience. So I can continue to bring you high-calibre guests, I invite you to go to iTunes or Spotify, click Subscribe, leave a review, and share this podcast with your friends. Today I’m thrilled to introduce one of the funniest and most entertaining men I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet – Dave O’Neil. Dave: Gee, that’s a big introduction. I’ve met funnier. Elizabeth: There’s more Dave. Dave O’Neil has been in the business of comedy for 20 years, and is one of Australia’s most recognizable stand-up comics, having put in 15 Melbourne international comedy festivals and dozens of comedy clubs nationally. On screen you will have seen Dave as Team Captain in the ABC TV comedy quiz show Tractor Monkeys, as well as dishing out life advice in The Agony of Life, The Agony of Modern Manners, The Agony of The Mind, Can of Worms, plus messing about on Adam Hills In GorDave Street Tonight and Good News Week. He is probably most well-known for the honour of being the guest with the most appearances (over 50) on ABC TV’s ever popular Spicks & Specks. Dave O’Neil, welcome to Writers’ Tête-à-Tête with Elizabeth Harris. Dave: Welcome. Thank you. Lovely to be here. Pleasure to be called a writer, as opposed to a comedian. Elizabeth: Well, isn’t this your fifth book? Dave: Yeah yeah, two were kids’ books. My partner and I did them in Australia before we had kids. Elizabeth: When you had more time. Dave: We had more time, that’s right. And one’s called Lies That Parents Tell You, so I wouldn’t write that now. My daughter sits up in bed reading it and quotes it back to me. Elizabeth: How old is she? Dave: Ten. Yes, it’s tough. Elizabeth: I was at Kaz Cooke’s book launch about … Dave: On girl power? Yeah, she’s great. I’ve got to buy that book! Elizabeth: So Dave, you’ve been through so much in your career, but today I want to concentrate on your hilarious book, The Summer of ’82. Dave: Sure. Elizabeth: It’s a real feel-good book, and you cover some intense themes. Discipline. Masculinity. Sexuality. Mateship. Stalking. Dave: Stalking – that’s right. I followed a girl in Mildura. Back then it wasn’t known as “stalking”; it was known as “unrequited love”. Sexuality – there’s not much sexuality going on in there, I can tell you that. There’s a lack of activity in that department, that’s for sure. Elizabeth: You were talking about how you were giving advice to 17-year-old virgins. Dave: That’s right. A little girl at school would ask me for romance advice. I was like, that’s not who you go to for romance advice. You see, I was a nice guy, so the girls talked to me. Elizabeth: We like nice guys. So getting back to this book: What inspired you to write it, and what’s your favourite memory from summer? Dave: I always wanted to write a memoir from the 80s, and I wrote a few chapters and put it aside. I saw that TV show This is England on SBS, about the young guys growing up in the Housing Commission area, and I thought I’ve got to write something like that, because that’s in my era. But their show ended with incest and murder, whereas that never happened to me, so I thought why not write a more positive recollection of that time. So I wrote a few chapters and put it aside. And then my son started high school, and so you go to the local high school and it brought back all these memories from when I was in high school. Elizabeth: At Mitcham High? Dave: I went to Mitcham High, yeah. Back then we had a choice of the tech or the high school, and if you were Catholic, you went to Catholic school. We weren’t Catholic. So now, and I’m talking about the government schools, not the private schools – you can choose from 3 or 4 around here, so you go to this school or that school, and they’re all the same basically. They haven’t changed much since 1982. They look the same. You’ve got the oval, the canteen, big classrooms, kids sitting around, so they haven’t changed at all, so I thought I should write that book again. It brought back all those memories, and so my son started school, and that’s why I did it. That’s why. Elizabeth: Now we know. Dave: It’s just something to do. As comedians, we’ve got to have something to do, apart from studio gigs. Elizabeth: That’s good. So talking a bit about your children, you mentioned your parents Kev and Joyce – “Joyce the Voice”. Dave: Yep, “Joyce the Voice”. Elizabeth: And what I’m wondering now is, are you parenting your children differently from how you were parented then? Dave: Definitely, definitely. We got hit for a start. Elizabeth: What with? Dave: A belt. So Kev would get very angry – it’s in the book – he would get very angry, come running in in a singlet, trying to hide his nether regions, swinging a belt above his head, and whack us in the ... Elizabeth: My dad had a strap up on the fridge. I think we had a very similar upbringing. Dave: I don’t hit my children, but obviously parenting your kids back then was a bit easier, because you’d just say “I’ll hit you”, and that was a full stop to the conversation, whereas all I can do is yell at them. Elizabeth: How about cracking some jokes – does that work? Dave:  Yeah, crack some jokes, try and alleviate the situation, but my daughter in particular doesn’t like that. Elizabeth: Is that because she’s heard them all before? Dave: Yeah, she’s heard them all before. “It’s not funny Dad!” My mum and dad were pretty involved with us. My dad was a Scout leader and staff, so we spent a fair bit of time with him. He was a good role model, and Joyce was introvertly involved in our lives. But he’s even more involved these days – at school pickup and all that. There’s a lot more dads involved now. Elizabeth: That’s fantastic, so you’ve got that support as well. When we met at your book launch, you told me that you only know comedians. Dave: It’s true. I don’t know any writers really. Elizabeth: Well, you know me. Dave: I know you. And I know Arnold ... who lives around here, who wrote Scheherezade Cafe. He's famous! (Ed: Cafe Scheherazade by Arnold Zable) Elizabeth: Maybe you can introduce me to Arnold. Is that like Arnold on Happy Days? Dave: (Laughs) He’s had a book out called Fido – the Box of the Fido. Elizabeth: I can’t believe I made Dave O’Neil laugh. Dave:  So I see him on the street here, in Fairfield, and I talk to him about writing and stuff. Elizabeth: That brings me to something about fame. You’re a very famous star. Dave: Not that famous. Elizabeth: Well, we think you are. So, what we want to know is, do you like being recognized when you’re out and about, or does fame have a downside? Dave: No, my level of fame is pretty small, so people like Dave Hughes or Glenn Robbins, or Carl Barron for instance – they can get hassled all the time. Elizabeth: Well, in my network, I have a number of people who would love to meet you. Dave: Really? Well, tell ’em I’m around. Elizabeth: And they’re going to be really disappointed that here we are, at the Grandview in Fairfield – it’s a stunning place, gorgeous building, lovely people. Dave: They’re nice people here. Elizabeth: Michael? Dave:  Michael and Noah, yep. Elizabeth: Jenny? Dave: Michael, Noah and Jenny – they’re all the higher level management here. Elizabeth: They are, and they made me feel very, very welcome. Made me a coffee. Smiled and when I offered to pay, wouldn’t take my money. It’s fantastic! Dave: Ah that’s good. I didn’t tell them – you tell someone and they pass it on. It’s all on my tab, probably. My level of fame is not that high. Occasionally when you go interstate – the more you go interstate like Queensland – people get excited about you, but certainly around Fairfield Road, no one cares about you. Elizabeth: Well, they could have chimed some…”Captain Cocoa”… Dave:  What, with the band? That’s right. Well when the band broke up, someone did say, “How is Dave O’Neil going to be famous now?” Ambition for fame… Elizabeth: Let’s stop right there. Was it to meet girls? Dave: Probably. Definitely not music. We went and saw bands, and just thought: Why can’t we be in a band? And the guy at high school was … famous 80s band … “hands up in the air”…I didn’t see it. And so we thought, that’s the way to meet girls, get up on stage. Elizabeth: Did it work? Dave: Well, I met Sonia, who…but anyway, definitely does work. Being in a band definitely does give you the attention you want as a teenager. We used to play at Catholic girls’ schools …dances …You didn’t have to be good; we weren’t good musicians. Elizabeth: I want to talk about Sonia. You did invest a lot of time and you write about that in your great book. Then you say you end up having a better relationship with her younger brother. Dave:  Well, that’s right. What happened was that I hitchhiked to Mildura to see her on New Year’s Eve to surprise her. And she was surprised, particularly her dad. And they gave me a lift to the caravan park where I stayed for New Year’s Eve. And the younger brother – I can’t remember his name – he was a great kid, and so we got on really well. He’s probably a year, two years younger than me. Was it Shane – Shane? So we ended up hanging out together. Elizabeth: Was it Malcolm? Dave:  Malcolm, that’s right. And we got on really well, whereas Sonia and me didn’t get on well. Elizabeth: Well, that might have something to do with the boyfriend too. Dave: She had a boyfriend who I also got on well with. Probably married, those guys. So, yeah, good times. Elizabeth: So getting back to that, I just want to know, for all those young men who think they’ll never get a date, much less have a child: you’ve had three, haven’t you? Dave: Yes. Elizabeth: What dating advice can you offer? Dave:  Dating advice? That’s a good one. It’s been so long since I’ve gone on a date…not since the 80s. Surprise question – dating advice. Ask someone out – you know a good thing is to ask someone out for a drink or for something during the day. That’s what I read on some dating websites. Ask someone out during the day where there’s no pressure. At night I think there’s a fair bit of pressure. I reckon ask them out for a drink during the day or late afternoon. Elizabeth: What about a play date? Dave: Well, if you’re parents, definitely. Elizabeth: That seems to work well. Dave: Yeah, I think in our age group - I Dave’t know how old you are, but I’m middle-aged – there’s definitely a bit of that going on with divorce and separated parents. And fair enough. Elizabeth: And there’s a really good place to go in St Kilda called St Kilda Adventure Playground. Dave: Oh, I’ve never been there! Elizabeth: It’s great. Dave: That’s great. Elizabeth: And there’s a fellow who runs it – he’s a youth worker but he’s also a musician. Adrian Thomas. Check him out – he’s fantastic. So what do you like to do in your spare time? Dave: I like to watch TV. Elizabeth: Yourself perhaps? Dave: Not myself. I don’t like watching myself. I did a spot on one of those comedy galas this year. I hadn’t seen it; I watched it, I thought it was pretty good. I’m pretty happy … I was judge of myself. Elizabeth: Of course it’s good. Dave: What happened is…so I spend a lot of time with 3 children. Once I get them to bed at night, or if I’m home during the day, I do like to watch a bit of TV. And I watch a mixture of – I watch a few movies but more serious these days. There’s a mixture of comedies and drama. I do like a good drama, you know like Vikings or something like that. Elizabeth: I’m a fan of Doc Martin myself because I’m a nurse. Dave: Oh ya Doc Martin. Is he Aspergers? Yeah, must be Aspergers. I’ve been watching … the comedy show … it’s quite funny … so I watch that, get some laughs out of that. What else have I been taping…oh yeah…West World on Foxtel. Elizabeth: Oh yes. More fun to watch yourself, you know. Dave: Watch yourself? Yeah, no thanks. Elizabeth: What I’d love you to do is share an excerpt from your great book. Dave: Sure. Do you want me to read it to you or tell you it? Elizabeth: Whatever works for you. Dave: I’ll tell you a story. This is the story of The Bomb, the laying of The Bomb. Basically, what happened was we finished school and we went home. No, we went and registered for the dole, and then we went home. Elizabeth: As we all did. Dave: And my kids said to me, “How did you know how to make bombs before the internet?” Well, we didn’t need the internet. We had this chap called Brian every night, 6 o’clock. He used to tell us everything we needed to know on the Channel 9 news every night. Elizabeth: Can you sing the song? Dave: (Sings) “Brian told me, Brian told me, Brian told me so I know everything I need to know, cos Brian told me so.” Elizabeth: Great tone. Dave: Great tone, yeah, I wasn’t just a comedian; I was a singer. So you can imagine these four teenage boys and Mum and Dad, and we couldn’t see the TV – Dad was the only one who could see the TV – we could hear it. He positioned himself in the chair that sits there. So we could hear it. We heard this Brian guy say: “Two boys were arrested today in suburban Adelaide for making homemade bombs.” We were like, oh my God, you could hear a pin drop in the house. Then he told us how to make it, by using chlorine and brake fuel. We were looking at each other, like, we’ve got chlorine – we’ve got a pool – and we’ve got brake fluid; Dad’s a Trades teacher. “So can we please be excused from the table, Dad?” Within 10 minutes we were making bombs. So the next day we got my mates together and we made – we decided to up the ante and make some really big bombs. And we made this great bomb, but we didn’t want to throw it; we were gutless like any terrorist organization, so we recruited younger, stupider people like Phil, who lived in the house backing here on the paddock. He stuck his head over and said, “What are yous guys doing?” So we got him to throw the bomb, and he threw it. And it bounced – boom, boom – and it sat there, and then it went BANG! Real loud explosion, the biggest one we’d made. It showered us with dirt, and we were all laughing, and the neighbours came out. An old lady said, “It shook the foundations of my chook shed!” And we’re like “It works!” And then the cops turned up. We heard it. The car screeched up, the doors go, a cop pulls out, and we recognized him – he went to our high school, he was one of my Dad’s Scouts from his Scout trips – obviously he was in his twenties now. Darren, his name was. And he gets out, and it was the easiest case he’d ever solved. He looked at the bomb, then he looked at our house, and he was like “Oh yeah, case solved.” And then Dad had rocked up. Dad thought Darren had just dropped in to see his former Scout leader, and Dad goes up to him and goes, “G’day Darren, how are you?” And Darren goes, “Ah, this is no social visit Kevin. Do you recognize these containers?” “Yeah, they are my sons’, sitting in the garage.” And we were like, “Oh no…” So we went to the police station. And the bomb expert from India was on the site, and he couldn’t work out what was in the bombs. And he said, “What’s in the bombs?” “Chlorine and brake fluid.” And he’s like “How’d you know how to do that?” And we went, “Brian told me.” “RIGHT, WHO’S BRIAN?!” So we sang: “Brian told me, Brian told me, Brian told me so”. I love that story. Elizabeth: Such a great tune, isn’t it. Dave: Yeah, it’s a great tune, and they used it in Sydney too, you know. Brian Henderson. Value for money. That’s in the book – lots of detail about the 70s and 80s in The Summer of ’82. Elizabeth: See, that crime history continued because being from a family of four boys … your brother Mark captured my attention. Dave:  Yeah Mark’s quite a character in the book. That’s what my mum said the other day: “You were the worst, and now you’re the best.” He’s very good with Mum and Dad. Elizabeth:  He was a slow starter. Dave: He was a slow starter, classic middle child out of four boys, and he was very naughty. Got in trouble a lot with the police and he got kicked out of school for setting fire to the chemistry lab. He was meant to be getting changed for Oklahoma I think it was, and he set fire to the lab, and got kicked out. Elizabeth: See, I’d actually like to read this – I know you don’t like to, but I do. Dave:  Go on. Elizabeth: Page 88 – you write: “We’re talking about a kid who’s kicked out of school for setting fire to the chemistry lab while he was meant to be getting changed for his part in the school musical. Hmm, there’s young Mark in the lab where he’s supposed to be putting on his farmer’s overalls to sing in Oklahoma. Wait! The chemicals are too tempting, so it’s time for a quick experiment. Va-voom! Up in flames the lab goes.” See, I have a brother who is an illustrator. His name is Bernie Harris, and he’s going to illustrate my second children’s book which will be out next year. But he’s similar to Mark in that he used to enjoy lighting the Bunsen burners in the chemistry lab. Dave:  Ah yeah, they’ve still got Bunsen burners too. Yeah, Mark was very naughty. Elizabeth: So the difference between our brothers was that he wasn’t caught. Dave:  Yeah, right, Mark was caught. Elizabeth: But you had your own way of managing Mark when your parents were away. Do you call it “MYOB Night” or “M.Y.O.B. Night”? Dave: Oh. Make-Your-Own? Make-Your-Own. Elizabeth: You were very inventive Dave, and strategic in managing your brother. Dave: Yeah, he was put in charge of us when Mum and Dad went on holidays, and at that stage he was an apprentice at Telstra. And so he would invite his mates over for a card night. And I was working in a factory and I had to get up early. And he was like … Elizabeth: You get Endangerment, don’t you? Dave: Yeah, I was working in a factory and you look at the pay packet and we got Heat Allowance and Dust Allowance. It wasn’t a great job but it was certainly a wakeup call. If I’d done the job at the start of Year 12, I probably would have studied more, I think. Should have done that. But Mark … Elizabeth: There was something about connectors and fuses, I think. Dave: Ah yeah. He invited his mates over for cards and they were having this big party, and I pulled the fuse out of the fuse box, threw it out on the lawn, and went back to bed. And the music went (mimics sound of music dying out suddenly)… And he blamed the neighbor of course. So I think when he read the book, he found out it was me. Elizabeth: It was brilliant. So that job, crawling through those … crawling through those tunnels. And the hot dog … Dave: Hot dog shop. Elizabeth: With Cindy. Dave: With Cindy. So I got a job in a hot dog shop: Alecto Hot Dogs on Toorak Road. People from Melbourne may remember. Elizabeth: Sorry I don’t remember. Dave: You don’t remember Alecto Hot Dogs ’92? Yum. So I worked at Alecto Hot Dogs with a girl named Cindy, whom I eventually went out with. She was dressed up like Boy George or Hazie Fantazie and she had all these outrageous outfits. Turned out she was from Mitcham where I lived; I’d just never met her. She was a Catholic and I was Protestant. Different sides of the railway track. So that was very exciting. But I eventually got sacked from the hot dog shop because the owner accused me of stealing the rolls and selling them to an opposition shop, when in fact I was just eating them. Elizabeth: Was there proof of that? Dave: Yeah, I was eating them. But then my twin brother was also working there – I have a twin – and he got a full-time job so I just took his job, the part-time job, and kept turning up as him. Elizabeth: Are you identical? Dave: Yeah. And they’d say “Didn’t I sack you?” And I’d say “No, that’s my brother.” He’d probably be 20 kilos lighter than me now. He lives in Switzerland; he works for Red Cross. He’s the good twin; I’m the bad twin. He’s doing good stuff. Elizabeth: The ability to make people laugh is such a gift, and not everybody can do it. Dave: Not everybody can do it. It takes practice. Eizabeth: So tell me about that. Dave: Making people laugh? When I was at school, I was pretty funny, and when I was at uni and stuff, a few girls said “You should be a stand-up comedian – you’re quite funny.” Now when you’re in your twenties and girls say that, that’s a call actually. Elizabeth: Means something, doesn’t it. Dave: Yeah it’s a call actually. You should do it. And so I always wanted to do it; I didn’t know it was a job. I had no idea, especially in the 70s – comedy wasn’t prevalent, it was fringe. There are a few comedy clubs that have started, but maybe one work function with comedians. We’ve seen comedians on Scout camps; we used to have comedians turn up to do gigs on Scout camps. So it was definitely something I wanted to do; I just didn’t know how to do it. I thought it was something too out of my reach, but turned out anyone could do it, if you wanted. Elizabeth: For those that want to launch their comedic careers, is it really the hard slog of gigs and being heckled? And if so, what’s the best way of dealing with the heckling? Dave: Well I don’t get heckled much anymore, but certainly when you start out, and you’ve got to do a lot of bad gigs – they call them “Open Mic Nights “. Anyone can get up and do it – and if you have an inkling, there’s plenty of them around now, more so than when I started. I would advise people to go and have a look first, and then approach the person running the night and ask to go on the next week and just jump up – write some stuff down and jump up and do it. The hecklers? Best thing to do with hecklers: repeat what they say. So they say: “You’re a fat idiot.” And you say “What did you say, mate? I’m a fat idiot?” Which lets everyone in the room hear what they say. Because a lot of hecklers do it so no one else can hear what they say, especially in a big room. “You’re a blah-blah.” “Oh really, mate.” And so you repeat what they say, and then you think of something really quick to say back. It doesn’t even have to be that funny; it just has to be quick. I can’t think of any Elizabeth: On the front cover of this great book, you are pictured wearing a Devo Energy Dome, Dave. Can you explain the impact it had in your life, and what the proclamation “Are We Not Men?” means? Dave: “We are Devo”. I don’t know what it means – just something they say in one of their songs – album name. Elizabeth:What it means more so on the train? Dave: Oh on the train! We went and saw Devo. They had a 9-day tour; they had a few No. 1 hits in Australia. Elizabeth: What were they? Dave:  “Whip It”. “Girl U Want”. Elizabeth: You’re not going to sing to me. Dave:  No. “Whip It cracked that whip…one sat on the greenhouse tree…” Elizabeth: Did you bring your guitar? Dave: No. I play the bass. Anyway, so we went and watched Devo. It was a great night and we were all dressed up in our best; we were slightly alternative kids. Elizabeth: Does that mean you used to wear makeup? Dave: No, I didn’t wear makeup, but I had makeup on that night because I’d been rehearsing for The Game Show, which is a TV show. They’re really cool people…and so we dressed up in our best trendy gear: nice jeans and lemon vintage jumpers. Elizabeth: Lemon. Dave: Lemon vintage; might have had a pink one if someone was in a brave mood. Then we had these homemade Devo hats, these red flower pots Mum had made. Elizabeth: Joyce made them! Dave:  Joyce made them. Crafty. And so we were on the train. We were on a high, singing these Devo songs. Unfortunately for us, The Angels and Rose Tattoo were playing the Myer Music Bowl that night, and all their fans had gone on to Richmond, so this was a classic case of “last train out”. Elizabeth: For those that weren’t kids in the 80s, tell me about The Angels and Rose Tattoo and Henry Anderson. Dave: Yeah, bald-headed guy, tattoos. They’re basically hard rock; they’re a great band. They have fans who are hardcore bogans, so guys from the outer suburbs in mullets, stretch jeans, moccasins – tough guys. Elizabeth: What sort of suburb are we talking about? Dave:  We’re talking about Moroolbark, Lilydale, Ringwood. I grew up in Mitcham – there are plenty of them in Mitcham, so they would get on the train and they would look at us and be like, “What the … who are these guys?” And so we were like their enemy. And so one of them came over and he didn’t know where to start, so he started at the shoes. “Where did you get your shoes from?” And I’m like “The shoe shop.” And he’s like “No, you got them from the op shop.” Like that was an insult. I wanted to ask “Where did you get your language from? Your nan’s wardrobe?” But I didn’t say that. I was hoping my Energy Dome would transform itself and he would get picked up and thrown out of the window. Elizabeth: But it didn’t work. Dave:  It didn’t work. And he’s like “Do you have makeup on?” And I went “Why would I have makeup on?” I did have makeup on. So I had come from The Game Show rehearsal and I did have foundation and lipstick on, and I had forgotten to take it off. And he goes “I’m going to bash you!” And at that point in the book – when I do it live, it’s different – … came through the carriage. He was the tough guy from high school – he’s now a lawyer – and he came through the carriage, and he was a big Greek guy, and he was a big Devo fan so we got on very well. And he was like “What are you…?” and he pushes this guy aside – “What are you doing to him?” And then these guys “Yeah, nah, nah…” and then we pull up at the station. They pull the door open and he fell out on the wrong side of the track - the tough guy. Classic tough guy move – they pull the door when they’re not meant to, and then jump out. He jumped out on the wrong side of the tracks and fell on the tracks so all his mates laughed: “Yer, Gary!” Elizabeth: Oh, his name was Gary. Dave:  Yeah, Gary, classic name. And then everyone was like “Are we not men?” And then we were like “Yeah, we are Devo!” and we were chanting on the train. Good times. Elizabeth: Well, the whole book’s great, cause I’ve read it cover to cover. Dave:  Oh, good on you. You’re the only one. Elizabeth: No, I’m sure many, many people will be reading it, especially after our podcast goes live. Dave: Cool. Elizabeth: No, truly. What’s your next project, Dave? Dave:  I’ve written a TV show that I’m going to film soon. I’m just doing a pilot though; it’s based on my life as a stand-up and dad, so we’re going to film it soon, in December. Elizabeth: Can you talk about the people involved in it? Dave:  Oh yes of course, it’s based on my life as a comic, so I play myself. Glenn Robbins is in the first episode - he plays himself, because I’m always trying to get him to do charity gigs. He plays himself. Brendan Fevola - he plays himself. Well, it’s all based on an incident where I did a football club gig 15 years ago, where I insulted … I didn’t know Lance Whitnall - Carlton legend – came from that club – that was his original … and his mum was there when I made it. So I’m using Brendan Fevola in this. I’m too scared to ring Lance Whitnall, let’s be honest. So I know Brendan Fevola and I rang him, and he’s like “Yeah, yeah, no worries!” So that’s going to be out next year. I’m also working on a comic novel – I’ve written a chapter of a comic novel. I had no plans to do it at all, but I got this idea, so I started writing it, and I think it’s pretty funny. Elizabeth:  Of course it’s funny – it’s you. What else would it be? Dave:  And again it’s a satire based on the entertainment industry. Elizabeth:  That would be interesting, and funny. Dave:  I’ve got to change everyone’s name. Elizabeth: Are these people going to be recognizable? Dave:  Yes. Elizabeth: Of course they are. (Laughter) Dave:   There’s an amalgamation of people in there – part me, and other people, you know. Elizabeth:  Composite characters. Dave: Composite characters, so you don’t get sued. Elizabeth: So do you have a website or blog where my listeners can find out more about your work? Dave: Yes. Just go to my Facebook page. I update my Facebook page a lot. It’s “Dave O’Neil”. But if you just go to my website – dave-o-neil-dot-com-dot-au - there’s a link to my Facebook page. I don’t update my website that much, but I do update Facebook a lot because it’s so easy. I’ve got a public page, like a fan page. I don’t spend any time on my personal page at all. Elizabeth: So Dave, this is a signature question I ask all my guests because of my book, Chantelle’s Wish: What do you wish for, for the world … Dave:  World peace. Elizabeth:  … and most importantly, for yourself? We’ll start with you. Dave:  For the world? Well, as Rodney King once said, why can’t we all just get along? Elizabeth: Good point. Dave: That’ll be good, if everyone got along. I don’t see wars stopping, but if we just looked after the – I saw this great documentary about astronauts, and this astronaut, when he was up in space, he looked at the earth and he said, “It’s like an oasis, and we’re killing it.” So, interesting from an astronaut, ‘cause they’re like military guys, you know what I mean? So if we could look after the planet, that would be good, but I don’t know what I can do, you know. I do the occasional benefit. Elizabeth: I was going to say you mentioned fundraising; let’s talk about that. Dave: More of my benefits are for schools - local schools and kinders, that’s what I do, just because I’m in that world. Elizabeth:  They must love that, though. That really helps them. Dave:  I do benefits, and I’ll tell you what, if the benefit’s no good, I just get up on stage and I say: ‘I’m here to support the cause. See you later!” Some of the people have benefits in bars, and people are talking and not listening, and I think, “What’s the point?” Elizabeth: Well, I’d like to invite you to help us out. Pat Guest – he’s a children’s author, and he has a son, Noah, who has Duchenne’s Muscular Dystrophy, and we are creating an event where Rosalie Ham, author of The Dressmaker, will be there. Dave:  Oh wow. Elizabeth: She’s got a book out called There Should Be More Dancing. Aric Yegudkin and his wife Masha will be dancing, so he would like to do a bit of … Dave:  Sure. Elizabeth:  And all the donations will go to Duchenne’s Muscular Dystrophy to help those kids, because unfortunately that is terminal. Dave: Alright. Elizabeth: And I’ve nursed a couple of those children, so it’s … Dave: Full on. Elizabeth: It is full on. Dave: Yeah, I can help with that. Elizabeth: Thank you. So thank you Dave O’Neil. Dave:  Thank you for having me. Elizabeth:  It’s been an absolute delight. Dave O’Neil, thank you very much for guesting on Writers’ Tête-à-Tête with Elizabeth Harris. Dave:  Thank you. [END OF TRANSCRIPT]

When God Interrupts: Mary and Elizabeth For more information or visit us as www.connectioncc.org, or for sermon notes go to thisweek.connectioncc.org.

(Christine and Elizabeth) For the centennial of the Easter Rising, Christine and Elizabeth look back to the mythology and reality behind the 1916 Irish rebellion. ​