The capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing
Jay Goldman is a New York Times best-selling author of “The Decoded Company.” He is also the CEO and Co-founder of Sensei Labs - focused on technology, design, and the art of leadership. The conversation in this episode covers decision-making, connections, the six values of Sensei culture, and putting customers first. Jay urges leaders to have regular conversations with employees and use data to understand them better. Jay considers empathy to be the most important trait of a leader and he elaborates on its importance.https://bit.ly/TLP-342 Key Takeaways [2:34] Jay has a 13-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son. For Jay, parenting and leadership are very close; he uses some of the same principles with his children and in his one-on-one work discussions. [3:39] The book, The Decoded Company, was published in 2014. In the years since then, the world has changed a lot. Much of the book is still relevant, but in hindsight, Jay says they should have put more emphasis on culture. It should be a headline item. That has become more true as Jay continues to grow Sensei Labs, which was spun out of Klick to capitalize on the technology they talk about in the book. [5:34] Jay compares a company's culture to a garden. The leader makes sure the garden gets enough sunlight, water, and nutrients, weeds the garden and protects it from pests. Leaders can't directly make the garden grow. They can create all the right conditions for it to grow. If you want certain behaviors, create an environment that encourages those behaviors. It's dangerous to try to fix people. [8:16] There are more small decisions than big decisions. Your physical space in an office has a big impact on culture. It's hard to radically change your office space. Day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact. There are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions. Big decisions need to be followed up with lots of small decisions. [10:52] When COVID-19 hit, Sensei Labs was still within the offices of their parent company, Klick. Klick allowed them to stop paying rent, which was very helpful for a small business. In the summer of 2021, as COVID-19 was letting up, Sensei Labs discussed as a team if they needed to take an office. The Toronto group was missing the moments of connectivity, collaboration, and having lunch together. [12:13] After funding, Sensei Labs had almost doubled in size. International associates had never worked in an office together but they wanted the connection shared by the Toronto group. Sensei Group built an office with collaboration rooms but no private offices, desks for everyone there on a day, and multi-use spaces for large meetings and holiday parties. They are not mandating people back to the office. [15:04] Sensei Labs doesn't say “remote” for people outside the office. Teams pick a day to come in together. They use Teams calls for those who cannot attend that day. They also use Teams calls on cross-team meetings or customer meetings. All meeting rooms are set up for Teams, with good microphones, audio, cameras, and video. Sensei Labs is all hybrid, rather than divided into tiers. [16:21] All “hoteling” desks have a proper monitor and Logitech webcam. There is an events space with a screen that rolls down from the ceiling, a webcam, a projector, and an audio system, so people not present can have the full experience of partaking in the event. There are multiple presenters, some in the building, and some participating by video. All these things help integrate the teams. [17:30] All of that said, you can't replace the in-person experience, or going out for a coffee or lunch together. Jay loves to see a cross-functional group who have carried in lunch and are eating together. Those are collisions, as Steve Jobs called them, where you get an exchange of ideas and connections between different teams that wouldn't otherwise form. Those are hard to recreate on Teams or Slack. [18:50] At Sensei Labs, there is a big emphasis on helping each other in a culture where that's rewarded and recognized. The founders were intentional when they carved Sensei Labs out of Klick to build a culture that was unique to Sensei Labs, built around Enterprise SaaS, customers, and partners. [20:28] As they started, they came up with six values that represent Sensei culture: being Selfless, being Empathetic, being Nimble, being Skilled, being Entrepreneurial, and having Integrity. They built everything they do on the people side of the business around those Sensei values. They have a matrix of every role in the organization with the values, and observable behaviors expected from each role. [21:23] The matrix also shows how to get promoted in terms of what you should be thinking about in observable behaviors for each of the Sensei values for any role. When Sensei Labs does promotions, they evaluate on the Sensei values. The Sensei values are part of their open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of others and tag them with Sensei values. It's all intentional. [22:32] Over the last year, Sensei Labs has strongly emphasized CARE requests. Sensei President Benji Nadler came up with the acronym CARE, for Customers Are Really Everything, to reorient everyone's thinking about customer requests to make them the highest priority. [24:08] An organization that does not give its people regular feedback about results is doing its people a disservice and will not get the results that it wants. In The Decoded Company, there is the Rule of Five Degrees. If you take a boat across a lake, and you're five degrees off course at the start, it's an easy correction then. But five degrees off course on the other side of the lake could be miles out of the way. [25:05] If an organization gives performance reviews annually, it's already crossed the lake. Regular five-degree course corrections throughout the year could prevent an employee from being miles off course at the performance review. Regular feedback corrects behaviors and bridges the gap between behaviors. [26:18] As a privately-held company, Sensei Labs is free to make long-term decisions. Jay picks values even over performance because, in the end, that will have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect whom they hire. [28:14] Sensei Labs operates as a separate organization from Klick and the Sensei teams do not work on Klick's projects. Sensei is proudly part of the Klick group of companies but there is no need for a tight alignment between the two. There is an overlap in how the two companies express and define their values. Klick has a pyramid of cultural values with the bottom level being their foundational values. [29:00] Jay describes how the layers of the Klick value pyramid match the key inflection points of career advancement. Sensei used the best parts of the Klick values in developing the Sensei Labs values acronym. Sensei looks at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader, and the first time a leader becomes a leader of leaders. Those points require different thinking. [30:54] Leadership has a science component. The science of leadership goes back to Taylorism measuring productivity with a stopwatch and optimizing the Ford assembly lines. There's the possible Hawthorne effect of performance rising because it is measured. The science is how you use the data within an organization to optimize it for talent, centricity, and engagement, the premise of Decoded. [31:48] Jay explains how leadership is an art, requiring a high degree of empathy. You need to be able to understand the individual members of your team and what drives them. Jay values empathy as the most important trait of leadership. Empathy requires engagement, conversations, and knowing each other. It requires some vulnerable moments that establish psychological safety between you and your team. [34:30] People learned hard skills in school and had to figure out the soft skills for themselves. It dodges the responsibility for teaching the part of leadership that is probably more impactful. Jay explores the mistake technology companies often make in promoting engineers into managerial roles with no EQ or managerial skills. That mistake removes a skilled individual contributor and installs an ineffectual leader. [36:54] Instead, create a pathway that allows skilled engineers to remain in their craft but to become leaders, take on more responsibility, and make more money. Both Sensei Labs and Klick have parallel tracks for people leadership and craft leadership. As individuals advance, their time is leveraged so that an hour of their time creates more than an hour of value for the organization. [39:54] The use of Big Data has changed immensely since Decoded was published. The principle is the same, but if they wrote the book today, their take would be very different. Data is more prevalent in business today. [40:20] Most businesses today spend huge amounts on data to understand their customers. They do not use any of the same resources to understand their people. Jay argues that you will have a higher leverage effect by engaging in your team, creating a virtuous cycle of having the best talent on your teams, more customer happiness, more revenue, and hiring even more skilled team members. [42:03] There is a difference between ambient data and self-reported data. Self-reported data is always biased. Teams constantly use tools and that creates a digital body language about what they are working on and who they're connected with and other factors. That data is available through analysis. Jay calls this data a sixth sense. Have guidelines about using the data, so it's not uncomfortable. [43:35] There has been good research on 16 indicators that somebody may be thinking about quitting their job. If you could look across those 16 relative attributes of an employee, “Jim”, you could see changes that indicate that something has changed in ”Jim's” life. Measuring a baseline and looking ad deviations can be telling. How do you react if you suspect “Jim” is thinking of leaving? [45:18] If “Jim,” is a valued member of your team, and you want to make sure that “Jim” is not a flight risk, this might be an indicator to have a conversation. “Just checking in and making sure that everything's OK. How are you feeling? Can we talk about a career progression or a new project for you to take on?” If you are happy that “Jim” is thinking of leaving, you might start looking at replacements! [46:13] You've got five senses. If you can use data as a sixth sense, to augment those five with an extra set of analytic abilities to help you make better decisions faster, that leads to a better outcome. [47:40] Can this ambient data be hacked? Jay would hope people worked in an environment where they didn't have to prompt the conversation by wearing an interview suit to work. Every organization is a collection of people. Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms and values, whether by design or default. Sometimes you may find shortcuts to get to a desired conversation. [48:38] Mark Raheja taught Jay a management hack in the form of the question, “Is it safe to try?” In most organizations the default is safety. Proposing anything radical means a fight to get to the point of experimenting with it because you are triggering the organization's autoimmune system. But ask people to come up with a reason it's not safe to try it. If they cannot, then go ahead with the experiment. [51:19] After six months in his first job out of school at IBM, Jay asked about promotions. His manager told him everybody gets promoted on their first and second anniversary, and in the third year, promotions are earned by merit. Jay recalls, “I started looking for a job that day. And to me, that is the oldest-school thought pattern around what management looks like.” [55:19] Closing quote: Remember, “Leadership is unlocking people's potential to become better.” — Bill Bradley Quotable Quotes “Often in a parenting conversation with one of the kids, I'm repeating things that I might have recently said in a one-on-one to someone on my team, and probably more often, in one-on-ones, I find myself repeating things I've said in parenting moments.” “It starts to get difficult when you start to say, ‘I want behaviors that I don't see and my options are either to replace people or fix people,' and I think that's a dangerous path.” “Your physical space in an office environment has a big impact on culture. … It's harder to … radically change the configuration of it. … All those day-to-day moments can have just as big an impact and there are many times more of them than there are of the big decisions.” “In many ways, we are the trailblazers who are out ahead, thinking about culture, thinking about people, and thinking about leadership. And then, there are other places where we're happy to take a back seat and one of those places is mandating people back to the office.” “We have a matrix of every role in the organization and all of the values … that everyone has access to. So you can look up any role, and any value, and see what the observable behaviors are that we expect out of that role as well as where you might get promoted to.” “We have an open recognition channel in Teams. Everyone can post recognitions of each other. They tag them with some of the values. … At our Town Hall a couple of weeks ago, we celebrated the people who've had the most recognition posts for each of the values.” “Being selfless is about being there for each other and helping each other out and helping our customers and partners as well. These are both internal and external.” “We have the luxury of being able to make long-term decisions when we can and so I would pick values even over performance because, in the end, that is what is going to have the biggest impact on the business. Staying true to those values will affect who you hire.” “We have always looked at the key inflection points of the first time an individual contributor becomes a leader and then the first time they become a leader of leaders. Those are two points at which you have to think very differently about … your success.” “Your best engineers are at least 10 times as good as your worst engineers.” “Anytime you have a collection of people, you end up with norms in that group. You end up with cultural values, whether by design or default.” “In most organizations, the default energy is toward ‘No” and toward safety. … If you propose something radical and new, in almost every organization, you are going to have to fight a fight to get to the point where you can even experiment with this. … Ask ‘Is it safe to try?'” “I do think the tech industry has lots of problems, but it also has lots of great things about it.” Resources Mentioned Theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by: Darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC Jay Goldman The Decoded Company: Know Your Talent Better Than You Know Your Customers, by Leerom Segal, Aaron Goldstein, Jay Goldman, and Rahaf Harfoush Forbes Technology Council Sensei Labs Klick Microsoft Teams Logitech Software as a Service (SaaS) Benji Nadler Mark Raheja Taylorism (Scientific management) Hawthorne Effect Daniel Pink Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are, by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life, by Bill Dereseiwicz Chat GBT IBM
Today's episode tells you a few things that you should PAY attention to! If you do, it is my belief that you will cultivate children who turn into success, loving, and competent adults who are needed in the work place and society. Raising kids is no easy feat, but this 1 thing is worth the PAYment. Let's make memories and music together! Support our single "Mama Cry" on Apple Music https://music.apple.com/us/album/mama-cry/1554424288?i=1554424294 Support our single "Mama Cry" on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/track/1ZG2UFIH00IPMh6BkAGXMX?si=2760cf947dbc48e9 Connect-->Jo-Anne@musicallymindedmama.com Social Media-->https://www.instagram.com/MusicallyMindedMama/ Facebook Group--https://calendly.com/jkitson88/15min
Really good innovators and entrepreneurs have this ability to see things and connect the dots between different views. They are empathetic because they do not judge what it is. Rather, they ask themselves, What is it? And what can we do with it? On today's episode of the Circuit Breaker Show, Bob and Greg talk about the empathetic perspective in Bob's new book, Learning to Build. Bob will explain why he does not like personas and why you need them. You'll discover why the empathetic perspective is more art than science. You'll also learn why you need diverse perspectives on your team and how different worldviews are connected.When Bob wrote his book, he studied a lot of good innovators and entrepreneurs. You'll learn how they anticipate problems before they happen. Greg will address the most difficult aspect of having an empathetic view of people. He will also talk about his experience working in an independent living facility. You will learn why it is easier to practice an empathetic perspective in a group setting than alone. You will see why Greg is known as "Bob's Whisperer" You will also learn the steps you need to take to adopt an empathetic perspective.You will discover several skills that are part of an empathetic perspective. Bob will explore some of the obstacles that prevent us from adopting an empathetic perspective. You will learn how Greg maintains an empathic stance with Bob and what is the most important thing you can take away from an empathic perspective.Join us for this thought-provoking discussion.Enjoy!What You'll Learn in this Show:What is an empathetic perspective?A teaser of a future episodeHow good innovators and entrepreneurs see problems before they arise The importance of being able to put yourself in someone else's roleThe importance of empathetic perspective in the workplace.Why Bob always asks unconventional questionsAnd so much more...Resources:The Rewired Group Website
Sometimes life throws us curveballs. We begin to wonder if things could get any worse. Even though, deep down, we know they won't. In this episode of the Truest Fan podcast, I share an amazing exchange of insights about the importance of staying positive and being empathetic with James Mayer. James is the Manager of Huffman Mayer Paolo Wealth Management Group. With over 22 years of experience, James has had the privilege of being a trusted advisor and retirement planner to many Northeast Ohio families and institutions. James explains that no matter what kind of circumstances you're in, there's always a positive aspect to consider. However, it's up to you to look at it as a challenge or an opportunity. These experiences present an amazing chance to stay positive and be more empathetic toward others if you learn to acknowledge them. In a world where it's easier to recognise the negatives, it can be a challenge to see the good and be more helpful to others. Tune in as James shares his ideas and personal experiences on why being grateful and compassionate across all situations will improve your relationships. Important Links:Robb's 7-Step Guide: https://truestfan.com/challenge/ Connect with James Mayer: Website -wellsfargoadvisors.com Facebook - Huffman-Mayer-Paolo Wealth Management Group of Wells Fargo Advisors LinkedIn - James E. Mayer, Jr., CRPS, C(k)P Connect with Robb Website: http://truestfan.com/Connect on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/truestfan Connect on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/truestfan/
It's not just big businesses that struggle with creating a company culture where people want to work and having leaders who can drive the behaviors they want to see. Small businesses struggle, too. No matter how small your business, it's not too small to have a culture. My guest, Brittany Drozd, helps small businesses master leadership and company culture. She empowers agency owners and marketers to become confident leaders, build better teams and catalyze culture change. Learn how to drive leadership and culture in your business in this episode of Profitable Joyful Consulting. Key areas discussed: 0:00 Introduction 2:00 How Brittany helped a leader create a beautiful culture aligned with the organization's values 6:07 The highs and lows of ongoing culture and leadership work 7:01 What causes culture problems 7:40 Moving away from the fear and control style of leadership 8:52 What actually drives employee engagement and performance 9:32 Empathetic leadership 12:15 Getting to the next level by doing things differently 12:44 Unique culture issues and problems of $5-20M organizations 15:22 Creating space between stimulus and reaction for more thoughtful and strategic responses 16:25 What creates HR nightmares for small businesses 19:08 Navigating the growth point where the business is about to either explode or implode 21:37 How Brittany uses her psychotherapy background in client work 23:20 Brittany's signature systems that include tools from coaching, psychology, and organizational behavior 27:01 How Brittany works with key team members to shift culture 28:24 What she's keeping an eye on over the next year in culture and leadership Learn how to lead and do culture a better way in this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/N6bY3S_q00s or your favorite podcast app: http://www.samanthahartley.com/blog-podcast. #Leadership #Culture ---------------
Alexa Lytle is an empathetic and curious Software Product Manager looking to build solutions that make a positive impact for people at work. She's never had a life plan, been finding her path day by day! She resides in NYC, loves to travel and spend meaningful time with family and friends. Add her on Linked In to connect: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexa-lytle-0677b074 ********** EPISODE SPONSOR Eldorado Climbing provides handmade, easy to install, DIY climbing panels to fit your needs. With an extensive portfolio designing and installing for clients such as Notre Dame University, Google, Adobe, Vail Resorts, and many homeowners, Eldo is the company to trust with your climbing wall projects. Get your custom-built climbing products at https://eldowalls.com/jani ---------- This episode is produced in part by Keep It 100 Productions, a podcast and video production company that specializes in sharing stories of everyday people. Whether you're looking to start your show, or need assistance with the upkeep and editing, Keep It 100 Productions will provide a solution that is custom built for your needs. To learn more, visit https://keepit100prod.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/woympodcast/support
Remnants of the pandemic and social causes we've faced over the last few years continue to challenge the emotional health of our families and communities. Today's youth are faced with an onslaught of unfiltered and constantly changing information through the internet, social media, chat, texting, and the list could go on. So, how do you raise children who are prepared to thoughtfully evaluate all that information? Join host Suzi Kennon and guest Julie Bogart (author Raising Critical Thinkers) to learn how.
Shirley Thiessen's life looks nothing like the one she had planned for. She is the author of “The Little Black Funeral Dress”, a speaker, founder of a non-profit, CornerBend Ministries, and grief educator. Twelve days after her son's wedding, Shirley was thrown into the unimaginable task of planning his funeral. Grief threatened to extinguish her hope. Empathetic friends helped to fortify her resolve towards resiliency. Gradually hope returned as Shirley chose to participate with God to recycle her pain for good purposes.Shirley provides a playbook of best practices for those who feel uncertain how to support their grieving friends. When empathy is expressed, no one is left to grieve alone and hope grows.Connect with Shirley:Website: www.shirleythiessen.comFacebook: @shirley.thiessen.7LinkedIn: /in/shirley-thiessen-57208721/Free PDF: 8 ideas to confidently express your compassion and empathy
Meet Catherine Wragg, Chief People Officer at TriNet who shares how self-awareness and smart risk taking helped her achieve career success. Coming from a traditional environment, Catherine had to grow into the risk-taker she is today. Throughout her career, she took on challenges, betting on herself and her ability to learn. Whether it was switching to new industries or taking on risky projects, Catherine stepped into the unknown with curiosity and optimism. That's what helped her rise to the C-suite after starting her career in the payroll department. Catherine leads with a deep desire to make a bigger impact. She expertly navigated the challenges posed by the pandemic and created an environment where Trinet employees would thrive, adapting the culture and workplace to accommodate the new normal. Catherine lives her life with hope and belief in a better tomorrow. Visit https://www.gobeyondbarriers.com where you will find show notes and links to all the resources in this episode, including the best way to get in touch with Catherine. Highlights: [02:21] Catherine's formation story [07:04] Working for The Armani Group [11:49] What led to Catherine's success [15:50] Making important decisions for her career [20:03] Being a leader in HR during COVID [26:21] A new world of work after COVID [29:41] Balancing work and home life [33:18] Lightning round questions Quotes: “You have to take time for yourself and then digest all that you're seeing, feeling and hearing to be able to provide perspective or create an environment that allows folks to be their best selves.” – Catherine Wragg “It's really about trying to get as organized as you can about what's to come.” – Catherine Wragg “COVID was a unique impact to the organization that's actually transformed the way we work entirely.” – Catherine Wragg Lightning Round Questions: What book has greatly influenced you? “The Book of Hope: A Survival Guide for Trying Times” by Douglas Carlton Abrams and Jane Goodall and “The Year of Magical Thinking” by Joan Didion What is your favorite inspiring quote or saying? “Lasting change is a series of compromises, and compromise is all right as long as your values don't change.” by Jane Goodall What is one word or moniker you would use to describe yourself? Empathetic leader What is one change you've implanted that made your life better? Realizing I can't do it all on my own, and it's okay to ask for help. What power song would you want playing as you walk out onto a stage? “Competent” by Demi Lavato About Catherine Wragg: Catherine Wragg joined TriNet in 2017 and currently serves as the Chief People Officer at TriNet, overseeing learning and development, People (HR) operations and compliance, talent acquisition, compensation and analytics, and internal People (HR) support to the business. Previously, Catherine served as the senior vice president of Business Development at Giorgio Armani Corporation, where she collaborated with the CEO on various business strategies, including the management of the e-commerce channel for North America. Earlier at Giorgio Armani, she was the senior vice president of Human Resources at A|X Armani Exchange. Catherine led the integration of A|X into Giorgio Armani following its acquisition by Giorgio Armani Group. Prior to that, she was the senior vice president of Human Resources and Administration at Tower Group International, Ltd., where she was responsible for establishing and growing an internal HR function to support a rapid growth property and casualty insurance company. Catherine partnered with her colleagues on two successful initial public offerings and integrated various acquisitions. She supported 18 offices throughout the U.S. and Bermuda. Catherine studied English at Northern Arizona University. She is a former board member of the Insurance Industry Charitable Foundation. Links: LinkedIn URL: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-wragg-84a2012/
Eddie Saunders Jr, Head of Demand Gen at Flex Machine Tools talks with Jeremy about taking an empathetic approach to working with channel partners.Highlights:The importance of using an empathetic approach in content creation and sales.Getting to know people and getting in their headspaceAdvice for marketing teams that want to take a more empathetic approach to working with channel partnersLearn more about Flex Machine ToolsConnect with Eddie on LinkedInThe B2B Content Show is produced by Connversa, a podcast production agency helping B2B brands connecting with prospects, generates TONS of content, and grow revenue. Learn more at connversa.com
GOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL!!!! We start with a beautiful rendition of "Fut in Mouth" where Derek compares the World Cup Final to murder in the streets, sex workers, and American soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy. We talk to Dale Dupree about The Sales Rebellion. Brock talk and Matt Ryan does that thing again. Empathetic hippo, PNC Championship, bets, and windshield whippers. Follow us on IG: TBPnotagame
Red flags on females are easy to spot, you know what to do men. Nurturing? Gentle? Graceful? Thankful? Helpful? Caring? Loving? Receptive? Submissive? Cook? Clean? Bake? Sew? Don't gossip? Not jealous? Honest? Loyal? Morals? Healthy? Empathetic? Trusting? Trustworthy? (The last two are different) --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app
Everyone wants to belong. According to Jermaine Moore, to feel welcome, respected, seen, and heard, comes second only to our human desire to be loved. That's why Jermaine, a father of four, has devoted his career to teaching and training business leaders on the vital importance (and proven benefits) of prioritizing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the workplace, while also teaching young people, including his own children, the true value of empathy. Jermaine joins the Modern Dadhood conversation to share some wisdom about DEI, raising empathetic children, and why he's so encouraged by today's youth. Episode 77 of Modern Dadhood opens with a brief catch-up between hosts Adam Flaherty and Marc Checket. The guys announce they'll be at Podfest Multimedia Expo 2023 in Orlando in January, where Adam will present a breakout session on the use of video to promote podcasts.The guys briefly discuss the excitement (and stress) about the upcoming holidays, before welcoming Jermaine Moore into the conversation. Jermaine is Co-Founder of the Mars Hill Group, a New England-based consulting firm which specializes in leadership training, workplace culture, and diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Jermaine is a father of four children who are currently scattered across the world, and he shares candidly about what led him to this line of work, why it's so important and valuable, and how we as parents can actively exercise it and celebrate it within our families in order to raise empathetic kids. The conversation covers topics including:• What is DEI? Jermaine defines diversity, equity, and inclusion• WHY Jermaine is passionate about DEI work• DEI Misconceptions• Diversity in NON-diverse areas• The importance of exposure and representation• "More is caught than taught" - Modeling behavior• Allyship and how to be a true allyLINKSJermaine Moore (LinkedIn)Mars Hill GroupMcKinsey: Diversity Wins / How Inclusion MatterseXtension Foundation: What Is DEIForbes: 15 Key Benefits of DEIDr. Joy Degruy: A Trip To The Grocery StoreJermaine Moore Presentation at Creative MorningsPodfest ExpoRed Vault AudioCaspar BabypantsSpencer AlbeeStuffed Animal
The real art of empathy requires us to pay attention to the needs of others, without sacrificing our own. BUY SOME MERCH: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/make-your-damn-bed-podcast?ref_id=27657WATCH: www.youtube.com/juliemericaGET A MONTHLY NOTE FROM ME: www.makeyourdamnbedpodcast.comTUNE IN ON INSTAGRAM FOR COOL CONTENT: www.instagram.com/mydbpodcastOR BE A REAL GEM + TUNE IN ON PATREON: www.patreon.com/MYDBpodcast Get bonus content on PatreonSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/make-your-damn-bed. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
What is empathetic feedback? How can you use coaching in your real life relationships? John Kim (The Angry Therapist) and Noelle Cordeaux (CEO of Lumia) are teaming up to tackle the big world of positive psychology, meaning, and life coaching. Everything Life Coaching is brought to you by Lumia-- at Lumia, we train and certify impact-driven coaches, making sure they've got all they need to build a business they love and transform lives, on their terms. Become a life coach, and make a bigger impact on the world around you! Schedule a call with us today to discuss your future as a coach. Music in this episode is by Cody Martin, used under a creative commons license. The Everything Life Coaching Podcast is Produced and Audio Engineered by Amanda Meyncke.
Empathy is wonderful but misunderstood. And because it is misunderstood, it is often misused, which can be very inneffective when it comes to speaking up. In this episode, you'll discover: ✔️3 Things People Get Wrong About Empathy And The Right Way To Think about Empathy When You Speak Up ✔️Top 5 Mistakes That Kind People Make With Empathy and What To Do Instead Other Episodes You'll Like: How To Receive Feedback Gracefully (And What Not To Do): https://speakyourmindnow.libsyn.com/how-to-receive-feedback-gracefully-and-what-not-to-do 10 Steps To Be Both Assertive And Likable When You Speak Up: https://speakyourmindnow.libsyn.com/10-steps-to-be-both-assertive-and-likable-when-you-speak-up Important Assertiveness Skills You Need At Your Job Level: https://speakyourmindnow.libsyn.com/042-assertiveness-skills-you-need-at-your-job-level Free Resources: Ask me your question for the next episode here: https://www.speakpipe.com/speakyourmindquestion Sign up for 10 Day free Assertive And Liked Challenge: https://assertiveway.aweb.page/beassertiveandliked Free resources: https://assertiveway.com/free/ Assertiveness free training: https://assertiveway.aweb.page/getahead Assertive Communication Newsletter: https://assertiveway.com/newsletter Talk or Workshop on Speaking Up With Assertive Communication Podcast page: https://assertiveway.com/podcast-speak-your-mind-unapologetically/ Contact me firstname.lastname@example.org Or via Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivna-curi-mba-67083b2/ About Assertive Way: Website: https://assertiveway.com Rate the podcast on apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/speak-your-mind-unapologetically-podcast/id1623647915
Jerald Joseph, Director of Pusat KOMAS and former SUHAKAM commissioner outlines the policies and personnel actions that the new Home Minister Saifuddin Nasution must prioritise.Image credit: Shutterstock
Join us as we talk about all things you should give yourself permission to do in homeschool - change, quit, protect, trust, and say yes. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings: Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription LTWs Maren: Love Hard Angela: Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery Connect with us! Visit our website Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren Email us any questions or feedback at email@example.com Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:09] Maren: hi, we're Mar and Angela of homeschool, unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters, together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling. We're here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic [00:00:28] Angela: lens. [00:00:30] At Homeschool, unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and BI voices. [00:00:48] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:51] Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at home or all your kids are [00:01:00] at school or somewhere in between. Wherever you are on your journey, we are the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are your [00:01:07] Angela: kids. This is episode 2 0 2. [00:01:11] You don't need our permission, but we are gonna talk about five things we should always allow ourselves to do, and then we are gonna end like we always do with our lt. Ws Loving this week. And before we get started, we wanted to let you know if you are listening to this the day it comes out on Monday, then tomorrow, December. [00:01:33] Sixth, we are going to be having our class in Patreon that's gonna be all about how to take a winter break. Mm-hmm. . And that is gonna be at one o'clock central. We'd love to have you there. It's gonna be informal. There's gonna be 30 minutes of us talking live, and then there's gonna be 15 minutes of q and a. [00:01:52] So if you'd like to join us, you can go to pat our Patreon links in the show notes and get set up there. [00:01:57] Maren: Yes. [00:01:59] All [00:02:00] of my kids' favorite classes they've taken have been from out school, which is one of the reasons we're thrilled to have them as a sponsor. We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. [00:02:11] They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their. Connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their learning out. [00:02:33] School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. [00:02:38] Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll [00:02:56] Angela: with the code on. We [00:03:00] love when companies try to teach subjects in new and innovative ways, and that's why we're so excited to introduce you to Night Zookeeper. [00:03:08] Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, then night zookeeper may just be what you're looking for. Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills all while having fun at the same time. [00:03:31] Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors and the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn. If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. [00:03:50] When you register, they'll get a seven day risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off an annual subscription. That is a great deal if you ask me. [00:03:59] Maren: [00:04:00] My family has spent so many hours outside and learning about life. If this sounds like your family, you might like Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. [00:04:18] Blossom and Root has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschooling families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. [00:04:43] Volume one is available for purchase and volume two is available for presale all profits from this history curriculum. A River of voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. [00:04:57] You can find samples, scope, and [00:05:00] sequences and information about each of their levels firstname.lastname@example.org. You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Route. Blossom and has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% [00:05:18] Angela: off your purchase. All right, well, today we are talking about permission and how you don't actually need our permission to do some of the things we're gonna talk about, but we think we have a five different categories of things. [00:05:31] We think that you should allow yourself the permission to. Do when you're homeschooling. Exactly. [00:05:38] Maren: These are things we wanna actually normalize. I think that was like our alternative title, like let's normalize these things, make them so that we don't even have to [00:05:47] Angela: feel like we have to give ourselves permission. [00:05:51] Mm-hmm. , it's just something we do. It's normal. Well, I think like a lot of times the pressures of whatever, you know, the outside world. Yes. [00:06:00] Also, like the pressures you place on yourself mm-hmm. Can be can really like, weigh on you as you are thinking about some of these things. [00:06:08] Maren: Yes. I do think we as homeschoolers often already feel like we're kind of outside of the norm a little bit. Yeah, right. We've, we've, we say this a lot on our podcast, like we have done something kind of going against green homeschooling, . Yeah. It's different, right? [00:06:25] And so sometimes we do feel like, well, we can't go way out. Let's not go [00:06:30] Angela: way out there and do something even. There still has to be some standards. [00:06:33] Maren: We have to have standards. And so let's do the standards that, you know, some of the standards that everybody else does too, right? Like it just feels a little safer. [00:06:41] It feels like it's socially acceptable and so, which is great. I, and I actually think that's okay to do that sometimes too. But I also want [00:06:51] Angela: us [00:06:52] Maren: to. Utilize the freedom we have in, you know, homeschoolers. We get to make decisions. The [00:07:00] reason a lot of times the reason why we, you know, decide to homeschool is so that we can make different choices for our family and we can do things that are healthier and better for our kids [00:07:10] Angela: and for us, more [00:07:12] Maren: personalized. [00:07:13] More personalized mm-hmm. . And yet we sometimes then shrug those choices off because it feels too much at that moment. [00:07:19] Angela: Yes. Yes, definitely. So this, you know, this, we're doing this episode intentionally at the beginning of December because, you know, we're like three months into a school year here. Most of us are taking a holiday break coming up or a winter break. [00:07:34] And so you know, we're thinking about some of these things, but we wanna make sure, you know, if you listen to this in May or February or October, it still applies. Yes, because again, you don't need our permission, but we're telling you that you can do these things. You, you should allow yourself the permission to do these things anytime, [00:07:52] Maren: anytime, anytime. [00:07:54] And, and it's important to think about them anytime, not just during a holiday or a, [00:08:00] you know. You know, a time off or something. Right? Right. It's important to like continue to, this is a living thing, . [00:08:07] Angela: Right. Okay. So the first thing that we wanna give you or that you should give yourself permission to do is change. [00:08:13] And that can be a lot of different things. You can change how you school. You, you are allowed to do this. You are allowed to change the big picture things like going from homeschool to online school. You are allowed to put your kids in online school. Maybe homeschool just isn't working for you right now, or you need a little bit more support or a little bit more guidance. [00:08:33] It is okay to do that. It is also okay to switch from switch in the opposite direction. It is okay. If you are doing online school, it's not working, it's okay to switch to homeschool. It's okay to also put your kids in school. It's okay to also pull your kids from school. Yes, you can. You can do that anytime you feel like it's the right thing [00:08:55] Maren: to do. [00:08:56] And change what's right for each kid. Maybe. I know it's, for me, [00:09:00] I really value making my life easier and I, my goal has always been we're all doing the same thing because when we're all doing the same thing, then I don't have to drive four kids to four [00:09:13] Angela: different places or whatever. But realistically, [00:09:15] Maren: my kids all have different needs. [00:09:17] Mm-hmm. . And so I, we have made changes to Yes. Logistically it's a little bit trickier for us to get to different places. But it is so much [00:09:27] Angela: better for [00:09:28] Maren: everyone, for the whole family when we're all in the place and, and doing the learning [00:09:35] Angela: that works best for all. Right. So you made changes. Yes. And I think that's pretty common. [00:09:42] I would say like when your kids are younger, it's easier for you to do things altogether or all the same. Mm-hmm. . And then as they get older and their specific styles and needs emerge. Right. And, and desires. Like we want to accommodate [00:10:00] that. So that makes sense. [00:10:01] Maren: And even within homeschool, maybe you need to switch co-op. [00:10:05] Fine. It's okay to do that. It's great. I mean, you're, I don't ever think of change as, as negative. It's like you're getting closer and closer to the, you know, you're, you're moving in the right direction. Yeah. You [00:10:19] Angela: know more, now you know more, more about your child and what works or doesn't work in this season or forever, whatever. [00:10:26] And so it is good. It's a change is a. Right. Or maybe you're switching [00:10:31] Maren: from, [00:10:31] More of a, an unschool approach to more direct teaching approach or something like that. Maybe that is just what's right for you or vice versa. Mm-hmm. , you're going to more unschooling because that's how it's working for you right now. [00:10:45] I think that's great. And then also we need to just consider. What's the style that fits your child's needs the most? Mm-hmm. , and this can change over time too, as our kids mature, as their needs change as their interests change as their, as [00:11:00] they are a learning about themselves and, and, you know, in homeschool, you, they really do get to know themselves very well. [00:11:08] They're able to do that. And, and when they're able to verbalize that and. When you know more, you do the thing that works best then, right? And so, right. [00:11:19] Angela: So what is your kid really into, like what are they, what do they do in their free time? What it really excites them? You could just do more of that, right? [00:11:27] If that's, if that what, if that's what would make things like come alive for them. You should allow yourself to do [00:11:34] Maren: that. Right, right, right. And the style, you know, and when I say style, I don't always even mean you know, Active versus, you know, sitting at a table. It could also just be like your child listens to audiobooks or, you know, reads more audio audiobooks than ires. [00:11:53] Mm-hmm. great. Like pick up on that. And, and you can do more of the out your child does [00:12:00] math better on an app? Mm-hmm. than sitting at, you know, doing a book. Great. Mm-hmm. awesome. Pick up on that. My child loves to bake. We spent hours in the kitchen. Mm-hmm. still do . And so I think that that is, that's all learning and that can change. [00:12:19] Like you can make more time [00:12:20] Angela: for that. For sure. Yep. And maybe you have learned that you need to either get out of the house more mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. And go on more adventures. Or maybe you've learned definitely that you've been outta the house too much and you need more time at home. You are allowed to like make your schedule, make your routines right to fit what works for you. [00:12:40] And it's okay to do that mid-year or mm-hmm. a month into the school year or whatever it, you don't have to. Yes. Like stick with something that's not working. [00:12:49] Maren: Exactly. Exactly. Yep. All right. Let's move on to number two. Number two is you can give yourself permission to quit. Yes. Quit a variety of things and in a [00:13:00] variety of ways. [00:13:00] You can quit permanently. Something this is, this is just not for me. It's not happening, not for my kids. You can also quit. So, Indefinitely until we're ready, . Yeah. Yeah. Until we're ready to come back, we're quitting. Mm-hmm. . Yep. [00:13:17] Angela: So I feel like this right now, like we said at the beginning of December, so I'm sure you're thinking of a break probably. [00:13:23] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And, you know, you might be thinking, yeah, we're taking two weeks off, we're taking three weeks off, we're taking a month off. You can, you should allow yourself to do that. You could also allow yourself to, you know, not come back till the end of January. Or whatever works for your family. [00:13:38] However much time you think everyone needs, you are not bound to this outside culture schedule. Yes. That everyone else is bound to . You know, maybe you want to do lots of out outdoor activities right now. That's fine. You can take the time to do that and then come back later for some more structure that you might, yes. [00:13:57] Yep. Yep. If you want that. [00:14:00] [00:14:00] Maren: And quitting I think has a bad. It does. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It feels like a fail, like failing sometimes in some ways, or it's been deemed that way [00:14:12] Angela: by many people. Just never quitting. Never quitting is a thing. [00:14:15] Maren: Never quit. You need to get rid of that. Right, right. Well, my kids need to learn persistence and how to, you know, work through something hard, which is true. [00:14:22] We get, you know, totally understand that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And then also there is this, these skills in quitting. Mm-hmm. , like understanding yourself and listening to what you. Making a plan to quit. Like you don't, maybe you don't quit cold Turkey. Like right now, we're not, we're just [00:14:35] Angela: with this, you know, maybe we finish out the semester Yes. [00:14:40] Piano lessons because we've already committed and paid mm-hmm. , but we know at the end of December we're gonna take a break. [00:14:47] Maren: Yep. And Okay. I'm just gonna hear, I'm just gonna tell you a quick personal story. I won't get too detailed, but like, one of my, one of my kids just quit a sport and it was it was, it was really apparent led for a long time. [00:14:59] [00:15:00] Like we were, we were just like so excited for this child to like, join anything. And so we kind of coaxed them into it. They got, they got kinda [00:15:07] Angela: excited for a while. Yep. Yep. [00:15:10] Maren: And then you know, mid-semester, so it wasn't even at the end of anything. But it was just, we could tell it was just not worth the fight anymore. [00:15:20] Mm. It's just not worth the fight. And this child was communicating so well to us why this wasn't working for them. Mm. Yeah. And while we tried to stick it out to the end of the semester, it really didn't, like, the cus benefit wasn't, it just wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't worth it for us. And so we made the decision to stop mid-semester gasp. [00:15:42] I know, but it was the right thing. Yeah. For this child and [00:15:46] Angela: for our family really. I like when you talked about cost benefit. I mean, I don't love that necessarily terminology, but I like that you're saying like, what, what is the cost here for us? Yeah. You know, this child's unhappiness are having to drag them out of [00:16:00] the. [00:16:00] Yeah. Our fighting relationship, [00:16:02] Maren: right. It was causing anxiety to, and it wasn't the kind of anxiety that like, oh, if I overcome this, it's gonna feel so good. It was, if I overcome this, I'm just gonna be bitter at my parents a little bit. Yeah. And we were like, no, this is not worth it. That's actually counterproductive to what we're actually trying to, for sure. [00:16:22] So, [00:16:24] Angela: So good job. Thank you. Okay. Our next category or I don't know, next thing. Mm-hmm. is protect. Our next word is protect. Mm-hmm. , something that you are allowed to do is protect your child's free time. Mm. Mm-hmm. and or screen time . Yes. I think. Coming into winter. We're in winter in North America. [00:16:44] Right. So like coming into winter is a time I think when we instinctually just need a lot of downtime. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. At least I do. Okay. [00:16:54] Maren: Especially in northern in the Northern [00:16:57] Angela: states as I'm watching it. [00:17:00] Snow immensely outside right now. That's all I can think about. [00:17:03] Maren: like I just wanna hibernate. Yes. [00:17:05] Angela: I wanna hibernate. [00:17:06] Yes. And I feel like, so. We are not good at, and I say we like the collective we, and I'm talking about me as well. Mm-hmm. not good at is protecting my kids free time and downtime. Yeah. And I think that is so important and I wish I had done a better job of that when my kids were little. I did get better as they got older. [00:17:23] Oh yeah. But I think that downtime where their minds can wander, they can do the thing they're excited about, they can have a chance to explore new things that they maybe don't know if they're interested in. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. that only happens with. Huge blocks of free time. That's so true. You are allowed to protect that for your child and not cram in all the different subjects. [00:17:47] Exactly. Because are all those different subjects more important than free time? I don't know. I don't think so. Right. And are [00:17:53] Maren: they actually getting learned when you're cramming them in anyway? Yeah. Is the learning actually happening? Mm-hmm. , you're [00:18:00] getting things done. But that does not guarantee any sort of like internal long term learning. [00:18:10] Angela: You're not. That's how I remember a an episode we did like three years ago or four years ago, I don't remember, was about like how we don't choose what our kids. Yes. Make meaning out of or like Yes. Yes. Like we can put the information in front of them. Yep. But we don't get to decide like what stays in their head or what they choose to make meaning from. [00:18:29] Right. That's like something that they're doing or something that happens within them. So just because you're cramming in six subjects or whatever, I'm, I'm not saying you're doing that, that's extreme, but whatever. That doesn't mean that they're learning all of that, but exactly what they're, they are learning when they're at, when they're, when they have. [00:18:46] They are learning because they're choosing what they're doing. They're excited about it, they're into it. They're motivated by it. We know for sure that they're learning that. [00:18:57] Maren: Yep. They, it's the best kind of learning and yeah, it's [00:19:00] the most internal learning and long-term learning. And the only part of that that's tough for parents is that you probably aren't choosing the topic. [00:19:11] But let me tell you, so. Let me give you a peace of mind here. It's not always about the topic. , when it comes to learning the topic is almost irrelevant. It's the practice of learning. The habit of thinking. Mm-hmm. that is happening. Mm-hmm. during that free time. Mm-hmm. , it's the processing. Mm-hmm. , they are learning how to learn. [00:19:35] Mm-hmm. and they are loving it. So they're associating learning. Positive vibes. Positive feelings, for sure. For sure. And so they are going to continue that habit. Mm-hmm. of learning, of asking questions, of figuring out the answer. All these things, they are going to keep doing that the, their rest of their lives. [00:19:56] Mm-hmm. , if they have that time to do it now and they're having [00:20:00] positive experiences. Yes. So give yourself all the credit for all the learning you're you and your kids are doing in their [00:20:08] Angela: free time. Give your kids all the credit. . Yeah. Yeah. I also, I know we briefly touched on it, I wanna say protect screen time and mm-hmm. [00:20:16] I know this is controversial, but I'm just gonna say like, I think. A lot of screen time is really, really valuable and really important. My kids learn a lot through screen time. Mm-hmm. now my kids are older, but I have to say, like my son, for example watches a lot of YouTube videos that are about, I don't even know the category. [00:20:35] Geography. Yeah. Yeah. I think geography. Yes. And like politics happening within the different, like Oh totally. Countries or whatever. This is what he does for hours. He does this for hours. That's amazing because I love to see it. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, you should do that. I am doing it wanting to squander that at all. [00:20:55] Cuz he is deep diving into a subject that is interesting to him and he is learning a [00:21:00] lot by doing those deep dives. Right. I have to [00:21:02] Maren: say my son is doing the same thing really about you. Oh, okay. We should talk about that together. Yeah. Two of 'em, because they probably love to talk about that, so, yeah. [00:21:12] That's great. Yeah. And, and they can, you know, watch YouTube videos together. I think that's so, so great. [00:21:19] Angela: Yeah. I mean, and I do not wanna stop that. I do not wanna put a limit on that and say, oh, you need to turn that up. I know sometimes we need to, but I like, I know that his excitement and passion for this is so great right now. [00:21:32] Yes. And I am not stopping. Totally. [00:21:34] Maren: I also, I wanna piggyback on that. My oldest is learning all about the history of Iran right now. All on her, all on her own, and the, and all of the, the, just the you know, women's rights and all that stuff, just. Just doing all the research all the time on that and comes to us and tells us all these facts and things, and I'm like, that's amazing. [00:21:57] Had we [00:21:57] Angela: limited [00:21:59] Maren: mm-hmm. That [00:22:00] time, it just wouldn't happen. So, you know, it's just amazing. And then I have one child who's just doing art all the time. Mm-hmm. on their screen, on their iPad, just it's art. It's this art app. Pen, you [00:22:12] Angela: know, like [00:22:13] Maren: a mm-hmm. . Yeah. So it's, and it's amazing stuff. It's like amazing stuff. [00:22:19] Yeah. And I just think, well, why, [00:22:21] Angela: why would I like squander that, [00:22:22] Maren: that mm-hmm. excitement for that thing, so. All right. Number four is trust. Trust your gut. Trust your gut on things. Mm-hmm. Trust [00:22:31] Angela: yourself. Mm-hmm. and trust your. Say too. Yes. Yeah. You are allowed to do that because you know, like we always say, you know, you yourself and your family the best, right? [00:22:41] Mm-hmm. , and we know as parents, you have a gut feeling of if a thing is working or not. If we need to do more of something, if we need to do less of something, if we should change something up, like where's the. The excitement for our kids, and you know that, you know that better than any expert, right? Or, you know, grandparent or like friend [00:23:00] who's a teacher. [00:23:00] You, you know that for your kids and your family. You need to trust that. [00:23:05] Maren: Yes, and I think there is like a good. I think it's great to do a little research if you need to or whatever, do what you need to do, but also don't overdo that. Like I think about it when, you know when our kids are sick or something and then we Google something and then, you know, suddenly we think they, you know, have a terminal illness or something because of the Google results. [00:23:24] Yeah, yeah. It just brings us to this very scary place when really our gut instincts is like, you know, I should just, you know, sometimes we have to just listen to our gut and be like, I should just. My child to the doctor or not. Yeah. What it's usually the right thing. Whatever your gut is about that is probably the right thing. [00:23:43] Bring to the doctor or don't, or whatever, you know? Mm-hmm. . And I think, I think it, it's the same thing with homeschooling. Like, just trust your gut. What do you, what do you see and notice and experience with your kids? [00:23:56] Angela: Mm-hmm. , you have so much [00:23:58] Maren: information [00:24:00] that is intangible that nobody [00:24:02] Angela: else will be able [00:24:04] Maren: to. [00:24:05] Will never know those things. Mm-hmm. and only you do . [00:24:09] Angela: Yeah. Trust it for sure. I love that. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Our last one is say yes, you have permission to say yes. I think a lot of times us included talk about saying no and taking stuff off of our plate. And we also want to tell you that you are allowed to add more things or say yes more often when your kids are asking you to, if that is what you want to do. [00:24:35] And if that works for you, you are allowed to do that. You're allowed to. You know, have a fun adventure. One day you're allowed to have a mental health day. You know, you're allowed to play games together that day. You're allowed to do whatever it is that is going to bring joy to your homeschool. [00:24:56] You're allowed to do that. You're allowed to go off for ice cream. You're allowed to get coffee in the morning. [00:25:00] Whatever you need to inject a little passion is what you should. [00:25:05] Maren: Yes. Exactly. And a lot of times your kids will be the ones to let you know. There's something like, mom, can we do this today? [00:25:14] Mm-hmm. , I mean, I would listen to that. Mm-hmm. , maybe it's not a yes, but maybe there's something that you can, that you can say yes to around that. Mm-hmm. . But it might just be a little indicator that there's something that you could do. Yeah. For sure. [00:25:28] Angela: All right. All right. We hope that was, That was kind of, this is like our favorite thing to talk about. [00:25:35] Yeah. We, we could talk forever. We had to coach ourselves to not talk so much. So. Yep. Exactly. Hope that was helpful for you. All right, let's move on to our loving this week. Okay. Marron what? Loving this week. All right. [00:25:48] Maren: I'm loving a movie. It actually came out last. Holiday season, it's called Love Hard. [00:25:54] Okay. It's on Netflix. It is a pretty cheesy romcom, [00:26:00] actually but it is just, it's just such a great movie to sit down, curl up the blanket and enjoy brainless, basically. But it's so much fun, you know, it's like you don't have to think about it at all. You can just like eat it up like candy. [00:26:15] Angela: Mm-hmm. . So this is about, I'm trying to remember, cause I did watch this last year and I loved it. [00:26:20] So if you're looking for a good holiday flick, this could be Yes. The, you know, like comfort flick you wanted? Yes. It, it [00:26:28] Maren: just says it's an la Okay. I'll just read it quick. An LA girl, this is from imdb.com. An LA girl, unlucky in Love falls for an East coast guy on a dating app. Yeah. And decides to surprise him for the holidays. [00:26:40] Only to discover that she's [00:26:42] Angela: been catfished. Yeah, she catfishing. Ok. Yeah. [00:26:46] Maren: Yes. So it's very lighthearted and fun. And actually I just, I enjoyed it probably more this year than I did last year. I watched it again. Awesome. And I watched it with some of my kids. It does say TV A but [00:27:00] I would say it's probably more like PG 13, to be honest. [00:27:03] Yeah. [00:27:03] Angela: It's like a PG 13. That's what it feels like to me. Yeah. There's no like, [00:27:07] Maren: No rated R stuff. No, I wouldn't, I don't think so. There's probably some swearing I would [00:27:12] get. [00:27:12] Angela: I think that's what it's, yeah. Yes. Alright. Thanks for sharing that. All right, Angela, what do you loving this week? I also have a movie, . Okay, great. Love it. This is called Glass Onion, A Knives Out story. Yay. [00:27:26] Yay. So this is basically knives. If you saw knives Out. Wow. Like two years ago, [00:27:32] Maren: Martin, was that two? Oh, you know it's been three. It's been three. It was 2019. Wow. [00:27:37] Angela: Yeah. Okay. Well if you haven't seen the first Knives out, you should definitely see that this is the second Knives out. We sat in the theater with family. [00:27:44] This is perfect. If you have, I would say teens or even. Between and up. Because it's like, it's a murder mystery, right? That's what it is. Mm-hmm. . But it's done in this a really fun, in innovative new way. It's also, okay. So [00:28:00] there's the only continuing character from the first Knives out movie is the Detective Daniel Craig. [00:28:06] He's the same. Okay. Otherwise they have a whole new cast of characters. Wow. And they're all. People, you know. Oh, you know, all kind of coming together. Playing kinda [00:28:16] Maren: the last one [00:28:16] Angela: too. A new funny. Yeah. These funny characters. These like unique characters. This Kate Hudson and Oh, fun. Yeah. You know, . Okay, I should have looked this up. [00:28:26] You know, the guy from Hamilton, the good singer. Okay. You [00:28:30] Maren: know? Yes. Okay. I'm gonna look it up. Oh, Janelle, Moe. Yeah. Is in here. Leslie Oum Jr. [00:28:37] Angela: Leslie oum Jr. [00:28:38] Thank you. Like I knew it term with an L. Yep. Okay. Anyway, and what I liked about it, which I think like could have been done poorly, but they did it right, was they talked about the pandemic. It's like said in the pandemic. That's great. And so there's like funny references to it that we can laugh about a little bit, little bit. [00:28:59] Right. Like [00:28:59] Maren: [00:29:00] fun. Yes, exactly. And we can process through it. Yes. [00:29:02] Angela: Yes. . So I actually, I liked that it was like, it was good to see that . Okay, great. So I think I think it's just a good time. And I heard it's coming to Netflix in like a few weeks [00:29:13] Maren: very soon. Yeah. It was just out in theaters for a short time, so I'm glad you got to see it. [00:29:17] We really wanted to, but it didn't work out. So I'm really looking forward to this. [00:29:21] Angela: All right. Thank you everybody for being here. [00:29:23] Thank you to our three sponsors, blossom and Ru Out School and Night Zoo Zookeeper. Be sure to check out their links in our show notes. [00:29:31] Maren: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Sizer and Marrin Goerss. . We are listeners supported to get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your membership. Go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive email@example.com slash new. [00:29:55] You can find Mar on Instagram at unrefined and at Always [00:30:00] Learning with Mar. Find Angela at Unrefined. Angela. [00:30:04]
Matthew 28:1-10 Thanks to everyone who supports TMBH at patreon.com/thetmbhpodcast You're the reason we can all do this together! Discuss the episode here Music written and performed by Jeff Foote
Can you be empathetic and also have badass boundaries? Yes!Loose boundaries lead to overwhelm and burnout and they drain the empathy right out of you. This week I will give you the 3 steps that you need to gain control of your schedule so you can keep your cup full.Reach out any time! - Dr ChiaramonteP.S. Would you do me a favor? Please go to Apple podcasts and leave a review. It helps me reach more people. Thanks so much!Do you wish that you had more tools to give great care to your patients with complex or serious illness? A new CME program will be starting soon that will give you the skills and confidence that you're looking for to help your most challenging patients. Sign up and I'll let you know when the next course is open: https://trainings.integrativepalliative.com/tiipm-keep-in-touch. Programs will also be starting soon for loved ones of people with serious illness. Sign up at the link above if you'd like to know when registration is open.Please review this podcast wherever you listen and forward your favorite episode to a friend! Thanks for helping me spread the word about heart-centered care for people with complex and serious illness.
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What hopes and dreams do you have for your kids? Do you want them to do well in school? Have good friends who love and support them? Build a successful career doing what they love? Find a healthy, loving relationship some day and start a family of their own? As both a marriage and family therapist and a parent myself, I can tell you that these are the dreams that most parents, including myself, have for their children. And that there's one skill that's essential for making all of these dreams and many others a reality: empathy. Empathy is the ability to understand another person's emotional experience, and to connect with it from a compassionate place. Empathetic people have healthier relationships, a wider circle of support, stronger self-esteem, and greater success in every area of life. Fortunately, we all have the power to help our kids hone their empathy, and this episode of the podcast will help you do that. My guest is Georgi B., a marriage counselor and parent coach on our team at Growing Self. Georgi is sharing some valuable parenting tips on teaching empathy to kids. You won't want to miss this conversation — this topic is so important, and it goes so much deeper than you think! I hope you'll join us. With love, Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby GrowingSelf.com
Join us as we talk with Tanya Faisal all about ADHD and homeschool. We'll talk about what ADHD actually is, what it can look like, and how we can support our kids. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings: Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription LTWs Maren: Wakanda Forever Angela: Bad Vibes Only by Nora McInerny Connect with us! Visit our website Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren Email us any questions or feedback at firstname.lastname@example.org Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:10] Angela: hi, we are Maren and Angela of homeschool, unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters, together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling. We're here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:29] At Homeschool Under You find, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and bipo voices. We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:51] Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at home or all your kids are in school, or somewhere in [00:01:00] between. Wherever you are in your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are your kids. This is episode 2 0 1, homeschool and ADHD with Tanya Feil. [00:01:13] Tonya and I talked about lots, the lots of things about adhd, what it actually is, what it looks like, and how we can support our kids with adhd. And then we'll end like we always do with our lt. Ws loving this. Before we get to that we wanted to just let everyone know about our December class in Patreon. [00:01:35] Mm-hmm. , it's gonna be called How We Winter Break. It's all about the importance of taking a winter break and our best tips for doing so. We're super excited about that because we really are passionate about it. It is, we love breaks, , we're passionate of all breaks. We are. It is Tuesday, December 6th at one o'clock. [00:01:53] If you join us on Patriot at the $10 level Central. Yeah. Yeah. One o'clock Central. Mm-hmm. . You will get information [00:02:00] and a Zoom link for that. Yes. , [00:02:03] we know finding a curriculum that meets your needs is tough, and that's why we're excited to partner with Blossom and Root. Blossom. And Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum, focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. [00:02:20] Blossom and Root has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschooling families around the globe since 2000. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022, volume one is available for purchase and volume two is available on presale. All profits from this history curriculum. A River of Voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find [00:03:00] samples, scope, and sequences and information about each of their levels online at Blossom and Root dot. [00:03:07] You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase. We're so happy to be partnering with Out School this season because they are our favorite way to outsource. We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. [00:03:30] They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their. Connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their learning out. [00:03:51] School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible [00:04:00] live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with the code Unre. [00:04:15] Angela and I love using technology to teach specific skills, and that's one reason we are excited to introduce you tonight, zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may be just what you're looking for. [00:04:33] Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help to keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills. I, while having fun at the same. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors and the super safe community pages where children [00:05:00] can work with each other and learn together. [00:05:02] If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. When you register it, you'll get a seven day risk free trial, as well as a huge 50% off annual subscription. That's a great deal if you ask. We are so excited to welcome back Tanya Fel, who is the creator of the YouTube channel project. [00:05:26] Happy Home. Tanya is a doctor and a lawyer turned homeschool parent who talks a lot about homeschool curriculum and adhd, and much more on her YouTube channel and on her social media. So please enjoy this conversation with Tanya. [00:05:42] Maren: Thank you so much, Tanya, for joining us today. We're so glad you're. It [00:05:46] Tanya: is my pleasure to be back. [00:05:49] Maren: Yes. All right. So do, maybe we should just start with a reminder. Maybe you can tell everyone a little bit about yourself, your story, and Sure. What [00:06:00] you are doing now. [00:06:01] Tanya: So, I've been on social media, you know, in the world, the greater world for, I don't know, about seven years now. [00:06:08] I got on right as we started homeschooling, and I started my homeschool journey because my son was, you know, having trouble in kindergarten. And we had explored what could be causing that trouble and, you know, found out that it was adhd. And as all of that was happening, I thought it would be nice to find community. [00:06:28] And a lot of the information that I found initially was online. Mm-hmm. from moms who were going through it and. Sharing our story really was out of like gratitude to them. You know, it was like a, I realized how much that helped me and I thought, okay, so if I can share my experience, then it can help other people in the same way, you know, as a mom to mom, kind of, you know, parent to parent level. [00:06:51] Absolutely. Communication. So since then, I mean, I've continued the YouTube channel and the Instagram account under Project Happy Home, and we just talk [00:07:00] about all the day to day stuff. But also I focus on ADHD a little bit because mm-hmm. , that's really where our journey started. So [00:07:08] Maren: did you know a lot about ADHD before you started, before you started homeschooling? [00:07:12] Or did you have knowledge of it or? [00:07:14] Tanya: I come from a medical background, so I had knowledge of it, but I had no personal knowledge of adhd, you know, and it was, I, I think that even in the last five years, we've come a long way in like decreasing the stigma behind these different learning styles and learning abilities and learning, you know, Just modes of brain wiring. [00:07:36] You know, I think we've come a long way in like being able to be open about what challenges our kids are facing and what challenges we are facing, you know, [00:07:45] Maren: as adults. Absolutely. Okay. So you, you started, you started really studying because you had a personal, your, your son, you realized, you realized he had adhd and so you did a lot of research and Yeah. [00:07:58] And, and [00:08:00] communication and communicating with other parents and things like [00:08:03] Tanya: that. Yeah, because I, I mean, all the things I had read officially about adhd Yeah. Can one come from very different camps of thinking about whether you're gonna medicate or not medicate? Yeah. Whether it even exists or it doesn't exist. [00:08:16] But I found that the most helpful things that I learned were from parents. Mm-hmm. , you know, whether it was on like chat groups, on those official websites about adhd or whether it was like YouTube videos or Instagram accounts, because. I think that while professionals can have a lot of opinions about what is physiologically causing this and how we can treat it and everything, I think parents have the issue of like, so how do I get my child to Right. [00:08:44] Put their clothes in the hamper , right? [00:08:46] Maren: Yes. You know? Yes. Okay. We're gonna get to that too. We're gonna get to things like that in just a minute. But first, let's maybe just start at the beginning and let's talk about what ADHD actually is, because it sometimes feels like [00:09:00] in intangible it's like, well, it's these behaviors. [00:09:02] Is it just these behaviors? That's what I think there's this perception, but what really [00:09:07] Tanya: is it? So that's, I think, a hard question to nail down because there is disagreement about what it is if you're talking about it from a physiologic standpoint. Right? Yep. There's still a lot of medical disagreement about whether you actually have. [00:09:23] Physiologic changes in the brain or whether you don't. I find that amazing that that's still up idea. I do [00:09:30] Maren: too. I do too. I think that's it. It's just amazing to me that there isn't more information out there or research or work on this right now. I think especially, especially now. But yeah, because it is you know, from my own study and research, and you can tell me what you've also learned because this is how we do it. [00:09:50] Like, we kind of just say, well, this is what I've learned and this is what you've learned and let's talk about it. But it's, for me, what I think about first is, is a [00:10:00] differently wired brain. Yeah. And especially. I think about the prefrontal cortex, which is at the, you know, the very front of your brain and how it's often less developed or and so it's possibly, it's possibly delayed. [00:10:14] And a lot of that prefrontal cortex part of your brain coincides with executive functioning emotional regulation kind of logic and understanding those, you know, understanding logic sometimes Yeah. And things like that. Is that what you have also found? [00:10:29] Tanya: Yeah. I think that there's a lot of research indicate regardless of what is actually going on with neurotransmitters and the, you know, the way the brain is developing, maturing, yeah. [00:10:40] I think that they've definitely established a lack of working memory in these kids. That too. So, yes. Working memory, being that, exactly what you were talking about, that being able to take this short term knowledge, this short term instruction, this short term visual, and transforming it into a list of steps that [00:11:00] you mm-hmm. [00:11:00] you know mm-hmm. , if this, then all of these things, that connection and that has a lot to do with prefrontal cortex and how it connects to all of your other lobes, really. Right, right, right. So, I think regardless of what's going on, I think we should focus as parents on like, how does that manifest for us in our kids? [00:11:18] Like, what is actually happening? Because, like you said, we can ignore, you know, we can talk about the behaviors like the, the fidgeting or the lack of attention, and sort of forget about all the other pieces that come with that lack of working memory. Like, you know, the reaction times being slowed to someone's facial expression, the inability to realize that you've missed a step. [00:11:40] You know, in what you were supposed to do next then. And just all of these things that can be perceived as disrespectful and lazy and, you know, irresponsible. Mm-hmm. just being actual, you know, brain wiring like issues, right? [00:11:56] Maren: Yes, yes. So it, yes, that has, that [00:12:00] has helped me a lot over the past few years to understand that it is, it is to me quite physiological. [00:12:07] Mm-hmm. Instead of choices, bad choices. Yeah. Or, or just a tendency to not be able to do things you don't wanna do. Like you have to step it up, you know? Yeah. And so it's much easier to understand when it is just, it, it, it does to me seem like now a much more physiological and, and real tangible thing. [00:12:27] Tanya: I think people should realize it. Like the, you know, it is a disability that if you are an adult and in a workplace and you can, you know, apply for accommodations. So we all hesitate to use the word disability, but I think it's important to realize that like medically and psychologically speaking, like it has qualified itself to receive help for adults. [00:12:51] You know, like people who are functioning, like working members of society. And I think that that is important because yes, labels matter, but [00:13:00] I think it's important because it's a real thing. The thing that offends me the most is when people say that ADHD isn't real. Yes. And that it's just behavioral and just choices. [00:13:10] And I think. To know that it's recognized officially by people who give out money , you know, to, like, that's a hard, a hard call for the government, you know, like, I think that that's important to realize that that is, it has passed that bar, that discussion should be over. [00:13:25] Maren: Yes, absolutely. Yep. You are so right. [00:13:27] But, and I do think I get why it feels like, like I said, it does feel a little bit intangible, and I think sometimes that is, because it looks so different for everyone too. So it might not necessarily be just a, a, you know, not being able to complete a task or something. It might, like you said, might not, it might be more working memory not being able to remember or, you know, memorize things that you need to memorize, or it might be, you know, emotional dysregulation or things like that. [00:13:58] So it's sometimes [00:14:00] hard to pinpoint like, oh, this person definitely has ADHD because they have, they do this, this, and this, because it, you know, it can look so different. But also that's why probably getting a test is really, is really important. Yeah. So that you can, you can identify it and move forward. [00:14:17] Yeah. So I [00:14:18] Tanya: was 95% sure that my childhood had ADHD when I took them in for their very expensive testing. Exactly. It wasn't covered by insurance . Don't get me started. Yeah. And, and it was a huge relief to me to know like, that he met these criteria and it wasn't just me thinking, you know, things about his behavior and stuff and just guessing. [00:14:42] Even as somebody with a medical background, I wanted to know exactly to the best of our ability. What was going on so that I could hone like how we addressed him and how we lived with him and, you know, how we as parents like adjusted our behavior to best help him. [00:15:00] Yes. I, I, [00:15:02] Maren: I agree with you a hundred percent. [00:15:03] It felt so good for me too. I have kids with ADHD and since then I've been tested and, and have ADHD too. And so also, even though I knew same with you, probably 95% sure this is adhd it does feel validating. And also there's official things that can happen now too. Like you said. There are there are accommodations that can happen now for sure. [00:15:27] And so I feel Yeah, I I I am so glad we all got tested. So, and, but you're right. It is, it is really expensive and I think that that is something that I really hope changes in the future. Yeah. For people for sure. So what are, we've talked about a lot of the maybe things that are kind of hard for eight year, or maybe we call 'em symptoms or things that you see that make that maybe challenges for people with adhd. [00:15:54] What are some of the strengths that you've seen in anyone with adhd, maybe your son [00:16:00] or [00:16:00] Tanya: anybody else? I think, you know, like you were saying, the, the weaknesses are the things that people pick up on the first. And just to go over, if anybody wants to know a list of those, it's easy to find online, but a lot of the things people notice first are in school, like when a child first has to sit on the line and they have issues sitting on the line, literally, and also paying attention and following directions, completing activities a. [00:16:24] Behavior and talking that can be deemed disrespectful. Mm-hmm. , I think if you flip a lot of that behavior on its head though, what it comes from is their strengths. Yes. Which is, you know, not wanting to be on the line for a very long time and to want to be creating and producing and doing things and actively learning. [00:16:43] And then, you know, in terms of the disrespect and stuff, sometimes it's just kids being really questioning a lot of things or questioning, not we say questioning authority, but I think sometimes they're just literally questioning the direction, like without any disrespect intended. You know, they are truly wondering [00:17:00] like, why is this the choice that you've made in this situation? [00:17:02] Like, why do I have to do it first and not second? Why do I have to stop this and do this now? And I think sometimes when kids with ADHD appear disrespectful, they're actually just being critical thinkers, you know? Really. Absolutely. [00:17:15] Maren: Yep. And they're, and they don't, [00:17:17] Tanya: Gauge that your face is showing irritation quickly enough to re reroute their next question. [00:17:26] Yeah. You know, in a school environment and stuff, I think sometimes when you ask the first question, everyone can be like, okay, maybe you're just asking, but then they ask another one and another one. That seems equally disrespectful. But I don't think that's it. I think that's the reaction time thing coming in where they're not reading your face for disapproval, they're just going on with their next thought. [00:17:44] Maren: Well, and, and I also think Kids with ad don't wanna just say kids, people with adhd can be highly motivated when they connect their big why to what they're doing. Exactly. And so I think for them it's like I, a child might just be [00:18:00] saying, I really need this information or order for me to move forward. [00:18:04] Tanya: Exactly. There're actually telling you what they need. They're telling you what they need. They're trying to be, I think in one way it's easier to look at it as they're trying to be respectful. They're trying to find the reason that gets them there. They search child. I think that, yeah, no child wants to be yelled at, even if they have this prior knowledge, like, yes, I get yelled at a lot and kids with ADHD get reprimanded so much more than kids without, and that's like a heartbreaking number of times, more. [00:18:32] You know, and I'm not gonna call myself perfect at all. I definitely will be impatient with certain things because it's a continuous kind of answering of the question. You're not gonna have, as a parent of a child with adhd. You're never going to be in the situation where I just say things the first time and my children just [00:18:49] You know, like, duck legs go in a And that's something, you know, to get used to. I always say that the most important thing with your kids, whether they have ADHD or not, right? Is that relationship, like [00:19:00] Absolutely. Do they feel when they look at you, and what do you feel when you look at them? Like, is it like this waiting for like disapproval? [00:19:07] Waiting for like disobedience mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Or is it assuming the best of them? Like, I think of all the things I've ever come up with for myself, you know, how we come up with these things, these coping things. I came up with this mnemonic ABC. And so the A is just always ask the first time, like, don't expect them to not be doing it or not have done it, or not be listening. [00:19:31] Like don't yell the first time. You know, don't be annoyed the first time. Just ask like you would ask a friend or anything. And I always think when you ask, try to like touch them or really make sure that they're listening. Like they are not kids who are gonna respond well when you shout from, you know, downstairs to upstairs and expect them to like, just get it together. [00:19:51] Definit. So the A is just always ask. Mm-hmm. and ask like a nice person, you, yourself, you know? Right, right. And then the second one is [00:20:00] the B is just believe. Believe when you're asking that this is going to happen this time. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. like as best as you can, like believe that they have the best of intentions and you do. [00:20:10] And we're gonna meet there, you know, and it might not happen the first time you ask or the second or the third, but you have to believe that will continue to believe. You have to. Yeah. You have to believe that they want to work with you. They want to be like the best they can be because they do like they do. [00:20:26] Absolutely. The C for me is always chuck it if it doesn't work, you know, or if you have a negative interaction or like you messed up and said things you didn't mean, or they just, you know, melted down and had things come outta their mouth that they don't mean or whatever. Just chuck it. Like don't carry it with you into the next thing that you have to do together. [00:20:48] And the next thing and the next thing because. It's in the end a small thing. Like you shouldn't feel horrible about yourself because you had a meltdown, because it's hard to be the parent of [00:21:00] any neuro atypical kid. It is. Absolutely. Yep. And then give yourself [00:21:04] Maren: credit for [00:21:04] Tanya: that. Yeah. And give yourself some grace. [00:21:07] It's so much easier to give them grace when you allow yourself some, [00:21:10] Maren: you know, . Absolutely. Yep. So, yes, absolutely. And I was gonna say something about, oh yes, this I love the abc and Always Ask is so great because I think what can happen, especially with my children with adhd, messes happen all the time. I mean, I have mm-hmm. [00:21:27] You know, experiments are going on all the time. White because it's tactile, it is interest led. It is not, you know there's not necessarily a plan at a time, it's just things are happening and question. I think one of the strengths of someone with ADHD is they are often very inquisitive and eager to find answers, eager to find answers. [00:21:52] And so I think that's happening a lot in our house. And so that does create masses sometimes. And also there's a lot of creativity mm-hmm. Around [00:22:00] people with adhd. And so I think there's, you know, there's our projects everywhere too and things like that. And so to always ask to clean, to, you know, to, let's clean this up. [00:22:09] Could we clean this up now? Is great because when it happens a lot, sometimes my first reaction is, oh my goodness, again. Oh my goodness. And so I think this is really great to like just start. With Always ask . Yeah. You don't have to elevate it to, you know, level seven right away. Let's start with one. [00:22:31] You know, let's just stay, let's stay where, let's stay down there in the lower levels of, you know, your emotions because I think we know this is gonna happen and, and, and there it's because of the strengths. It's because of the strengths. Yeah. And then I also think like my, my kids' strengths are definitely in the beginning of those projects. [00:22:49] Mm-hmm. . And the strength is not in the cleaning up of those projects. Right. That still needs to happen, of course. And we need to build that skill and practice [00:23:00] it and continue to work on it. But my expectation should not necessarily be that they're gonna be as good at cleaning up as they are at starting this really interesting project. [00:23:13] Right. That's, you know, that's probably just not realistic. And so if my expectation is they get that good at cleaning up, I'm going to forever be frustrated. [00:23:22] Tanya: Exactly. Yeah. And I think it's important to talk to them, especially as they get older, but really even as youngest five and six about mm-hmm. [00:23:30] how do they think you should get there? Like if you have a goal, like if they did this big invention box project and now you have like painter tape and paint cardboard pieces and everything scattered everywhere and you're feeling your blood start to like boil a little, you know, cuz you're at the end of a long day or whatever and you have to do other things. [00:23:48] I still think it's important to like sit with them and be like, okay, so like I think you can say what your needs are. Like I need this to be cleaned up. Yes. So that I can feel okay. Yes. You know, so that we can [00:24:00] get through everything and do other things in this living room space. And ask them though, cuz they are so creative, right. [00:24:08] Like, what do you think would be the best way that we could do this? Or what do you think would be the fastest way? Or do you think if we like, you know, set a timer, like who could like finish their half of the room fastest? And honestly, that makes it fun for them and for you. Like it allows you to like, you know, not be this ogre who's always upset. [00:24:27] You know, like it allows you to just be in it with them. Like, this is a problem, but we're gonna do this like in a together, like year going to be together when we like figure this out. We're [00:24:38] Maren: in this together. It's not just you clean this up, this is your issue. Yeah. This is us together where it is a team. [00:24:44] Right. And then another thing that, you know, I was thinking of when you were, when you were just saying that Tanya, is that I've often like maybe started with let's, can you. At, you know, when they were much younger, they could help with a few things cleaning up, not the whole [00:25:00] cleanup. That's overwhelming. [00:25:01] It would deter them from ever doing a project again. Mm-hmm. , if they had to do the whole thing even with me. So it was like they could do 10%, 20% of it or whatever. And we have worked up over the years mm-hmm. For that, I don't know the, the stamina. To, to clean up a project or stamina to do anything that is of low interest to them. [00:25:25] Exactly, yes. That it just, we have to build that up. It can't be something that they just take on a hundred percent right away. Mm-hmm. Without I think almost like some scaffolding or . [00:25:36] Tanya: Yeah. It's a, this guideposts along the way like this is that if the, the like, you know, first this, then this is tough. [00:25:44] That is that working memory piece, you know, it is then this, like, this happens and this happens and it hasn't, and when they're little like charts help and visuals and stuff, I think when they're older, absolutely. . I always have the high five, I think I talked about this last time, where everybody's, you know, responsible for five things before they see me in the [00:26:00] morning and you get a high five. [00:26:02] I'm just like high five. And that's all I say. Instead of saying, did you do this? Did you do this? Did you do this? You know, like they know what the five are. Everybody has it listed on their bathroom mirror and like you just, that's great. And you start the day with a high five, which I think is really nice. [00:26:16] And if they haven't done it, you haven't used any negative words to show them that you haven't, you just ask like high five. And then if they can't, they're like, they just run back up, you know? Which is really not, you know, negative, you know, it's like them having a code word almost. [00:26:34] Maren: It's a code. I love that. [00:26:35] It's a code word. Instead of saying, oh, go back and brush your teeth. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah, because all kids get told what to do a lot just innately. Like whether we want that to happen or not, it just is. That's the way, that's the way it is. Kids. Get told what to do a lot. Someone with adhd maybe even more because they, they, you know, We have to repeat things a lot or, you know, they yet, like, [00:27:00] they forget or they get off task or they don't wanna do it or things like that. [00:27:03] So it just can multiply and multiply and it could be a day full of telling a child what to do. And so I love that the, as much as we can minimize that the better. And so if there's something written down that is so great because they do need the reminders. They will not remember five things Yeah. [00:27:20] In their brain, but they, they will remember to go look at the five things. Mm-hmm. . So anything that can be automated. Like that is so, so helpful. And things [00:27:31] Tanya: like, you know, I feel like the bane of my existence is socks in general. Every time I bring up socks, I'm like, how many problems can I have with socks? [00:27:38] Mm-hmm. . But beyond them being left everywhere, one of our issues was getting out of the door and always having people who had not put their socks on. And then having this whole thing of like, me seeing they were putting sneakers on without socks and being like, take off your sneakers and go put socks on them. [00:27:52] And so now I just keep a basket of socks. Oh, that's great. Right there of everybody's size. And every time we do the [00:28:00] laundry, I just like toss a sock in there, you know, because that way I, we've automated this step, so, okay. I've established people have trouble remembering their socks. Mm-hmm. . And so now the socks are always there. [00:28:11] Now that whole thing is eliminated. Yes. It took the barest amount of effort on my part. And honestly, if they grow up and they still have an issue remembering socks, hopefully they remember to do this. Exactly. And then it solves the problem, you know? Yes. I find like a lot of people will say like, well, how long are you gonna be around and you can't do all these things for them. [00:28:30] And I'm like, I'm teaching them how best to do it for themselves too. [00:28:35] Maren: You know, they can absolutely do this their whole lives. Yes. [00:28:38] Tanya: They, they can absolutely have a post-it with five things on their bathroom mirror for the rest of their [00:28:42] Maren: life. Yes. They had a problem. Yes, exactly. And we have to think outside the box on that, because I think we've been kind of trained. [00:28:49] We do. We just do life this way. This is what, this is what people do. People don't have baskets of socks in their, you know, in their joy. But they can Why, why can't they? And so I [00:29:00] think that's, I mean, you could call that almost an accommodation, but I, I don't even necessarily like the word accommodation cuz it's, it seems like you're, oops, sorry. [00:29:09] You're making an exception for you know, For a difference or something. But I think this is just like we all, we can all do things. Yes. It's a life hack. It's just we all do things that make our lives easier. Yeah. You know, we put our coffee right next to the coffee pot so we, you know, we don't have to walk across the kitchen to go get our coffee in the morning. [00:29:30] And so like, we're just making life easier in other ways that maybe, maybe someone else hasn't thought of before. And I think that is really [00:29:38] Tanya: great. Once upon a time we didn't have room closets, but now we do to keep the broom there where we will be able to get it easily. I mean, it's the same thing. And we have a lot of hangups about making life easier. [00:29:50] We really do. Like I. I mean, even as adults, people are like, Ugh. Like, do you really need that extra thing or do you really need that? Like, is that, I'm like, why are you [00:30:00] so upset that someone has a special way of cleaning baseboards? Yes. Like if you make them clean their baseboards, hurray, you know, like this extra tool or whatever, whatever it is that makes you a little bit less stressed as you live life, I think. [00:30:12] Yes. No one should denigrate that. No, [00:30:15] Maren: no kidding. I, I, I can't even agree with you more. I think you're so right and it also just takes away the shame of, of what a lot of kids might feel having adhd. It just takes away that shame. Like instead of saying like, I can't even go get the right socks at the right time. [00:30:33] I can't even do that. That can feel really bad for. . But really it's, it takes away that whole issue. It's like not even an issue anymore. And I think we can, we can translate that into homeschool in so many ways too. Mm-hmm. . I do like, I wanna think about kids when they can't sit still, like you talked about, they can't like sit on the line, but at homeschool it might be they can't sit on the couch, they can't sit, sit at the kitchen table or whatever. [00:30:56] But I do wanna encourage you that if you have a child like that, even if they [00:31:00] haven't been diagnosed with adhd, maybe they don't even have adhd. A, a child who can't sit still sometimes. They are so their brains are going, so, you know, they're, they're thinking about a million things. Maybe they're even so excited about whatever's going on. [00:31:16] And their reaction to that is moving around. So sometimes that's the case. But then also sometimes moving around is what is needed in order for their brain to focus. Yeah. So it could be, you know, one or the other. And so I think that's an a life hack for homeschool, for homeschoolers is to just think about how. [00:31:41] We don't all have to be doing homeschool the same way either. Just like we don't always have to have our socks and our drawers. We don't always have to do the plan that we, that we originally had for homeschooling our child is our children might be telling us they need something else. [00:32:00] Yeah. And so that's, it's not a bad thing. [00:32:02] It's actually great. It's great. I think it's, you're figuring out you're, yeah. I [00:32:07] Tanya: think one thing that's good about social media is that we have so much access to different people's experiences. Yes. But another thing on the flip side is that it's bad. Right. Particularly when it's like a visual format like Instagram mm-hmm. [00:32:17] Mm-hmm. where so many things can look so beautiful. . Yeah. And so exactly, you know, little House on the Prairie and all of this stuff. And I think that it can make us feel bad about, about the socks in the hallway or whatever we're doing. Yes. That is working for us maybe, but not picture friendly. And you know, people have different experiences, like people have different family dynamics and different ages in their homeschool. [00:32:43] There's so many things. Mm-hmm. beyond ADHD or any neuro divergence that makes it different. I think I parent my kids pretty much the same. Mm-hmm. because of my eldest having adhd. Like I think I'm much better at being nice , honestly, like that's the word, because [00:33:00] my eldest has adhd. Like, I think, yeah, I had expectations for what motherhood would be like and what my children would be like and what my house would be like. [00:33:07] Mm-hmm. that are wildly different from what has happened. And in many ways it's been for the good, you know? Yes. Like, because it's have my son having ADHD has taught me that, you know, one, the way I'm perceiving a situation is not the same as the way someone else is perceiving the situation. Yes. That is very clearly brought home. [00:33:30] So true. And. That I can like pause and try to meet them in a, in a helpful way, in a non judgey way. Like I really try hard, I think I used to say things like, you always, you know, you always don't, or you always do this negative thing would follow. And that I have, I, I still doing things wrong, but that I don't say anymore ever to anybody. [00:33:53] Right, right. Because I think that it's really important to tell them, you know, like, we [00:34:00] are growing all of us together. I always tell my son, I'm exactly as old a mom as you are a kid. Like, so think of us in the same way though, right? Like, I am learning these things and so are you and we are all moving forward together. [00:34:13] I think we can all say that we can get better at things without saying that there's any perfect place to get to or that we're terrible where we are, you know? Yes. I think. That's important to know. Yeah. [00:34:25] Maren: Definitely. And I, I always, I always think what I'm doing for my kids who are neuro divergent, it's actually good for everyone and vice versa. [00:34:37] What we're doing for everyone should be good for the person who's neuro divergent too. So I think we need to also just, I think we've kind of narrowed our idea of maybe expectations and the way we even, I don't know, communicate with each other or treat each other that I think can be much more inclusive. [00:34:56] And thanks to our neuro divergent, you know, the people, [00:35:00] the neuro divergent people in this world who's like, they're helping us understand even just how to, how to , I don't know, be better communicators with everyone. Yeah. Yeah. So I think yeah, [00:35:14] Tanya: no, I wanted to say like, the one thing I would mention too is one reality of being a parent of someone with ADHD is that, you know, they will take negative comments so much harder Yes. [00:35:26] Than, and your typical child would, and that. As a parent, because I know, I, I know that I have said things that I would take back if I could, and I have responded in ways that I could take back if I could. And I have seen how much that affected my kid and then me responding in a way that was even more frustrated because I felt like he shouldn't have had that response. [00:35:53] Like it shouldn't be this extreme that I said this negative thing. And so it was like piling like one negative thing on top of another, like [00:36:00] the frustration with the initial event or whatever that happened. And then my frustration with his response and I think really learning about how Neuro atypical kids, particularly with adhd, can have this rejection sensitivity dysphoria. [00:36:15] Yes. This, this incredible feeling of pain and just anguish really about being reprimanded. Yep. Is, is really important to acknowledge and learn about. And I think when we realize how harmful some of the things we do can be caring parents, you know, which most of us are. Yep. It really shifts you. Yes. You know, like always remembering that shifts my responses into like a more even keeled response. [00:36:43] Maren: I think that is so important to remember. I was gonna just ask you about R S D or rejections sensitivity dysphoria because I think it is real . It is very real. And I think that for many reasons it's very real. And one of those would be that there's just a lot [00:37:00] of, you know just culturally. There is a lot of rejection for, for a child who, you know, learns differently. [00:37:09] And so there is this sensitivity to it towards it, and I think their brains are also geared towards that sensitivity too. And so, and I've seen that a lot in our house and I do think, like, it's, it's amazing how I have always thought of myself as being very encouraging, very positive, you know accepting and everything and have realized I have so much. [00:37:33] I mean, there are just so many opportunities to continue to get better at that . Even things that I never would've thought were in the realm of any kind of criticism they actually can be interpreted that way. Yeah. And so yeah, it's important. [00:37:53] Tanya: They have documented like the response time too for ADHD kids. [00:37:57] Mm-hmm. is a little bit just milliseconds, [00:38:00] but like a little bit slower in terms of recognizing someone's facial expression and like responding appropriately. Yeah. And I think even that we don't realize, right, when we say something, and it might be neutral, but we say it with like a tightness in our tone or in a in our face, whereas our neurotypical child might immediately see that in like SCADA and do whatever we were saying. [00:38:20] Sure. The, you know, child with ADHD might just not have realized that we're serious in this moment and that you were close to reaching your limit for the day or anything like that, you know? So, you know, I think recognizing that difference Yes. Yes. Is so important in terms of being compassionate about, you know, how long it might have taken them to like move forward with the task you were asking them to do or whatever. [00:38:47] Maren: Yes. And I wonder if that, does that have anything to do? I'm just putting this together. Like, I know it's very, can be very difficult for someone with ADHD to transition, transition to different tasks. So it's [00:39:00] like this to this, like their brain is sometimes hyper focused on something. And so, and to be able to transition to something it can be quite difficult. [00:39:09] And so I wonder if sometimes that's the reasoning for that. There's just like, they're thinking of this thing and it, and it's really hard to change to the next thing, even if it's a, a, I don't know, a face, A face that they aren't noticing. Yeah. Yeah, so, but we, so yes, and we also need to be very conscious of that, like, transitions can be very difficult for for our ADHD kids too. [00:39:32] Like we, I know you talked well yes, you were talking about it's really hard for them to focus or sit down sometimes, but also sometimes our kids can get very focused, and this is when they're really into something. Their brain is, you know, kind of in this flow state almost when they're interested in what they're learning about. [00:39:52] And so I think when, well when we're homeschooling, I think this is a great gift because your kids are [00:40:00] gonna learn so much about the things that they're interested in. Yes. Like you can't really stop it from happening , but also you have to be very aware of Dere that Dere relaying. Yes. Yes. And giving them lots of support at the end of that time. [00:40:19] When it's time to move on to something else, giving them lots of you know, time to prepare for a change in what's gonna happen next. And then, yeah. So yeah. [00:40:30] Tanya: People when they come to my house always make fun of me because I have the Alexa timers on everything. Yeah. So many things, you know, like half an hour before something, it'll be like, in 30 minutes we're gonna have our piano. [00:40:40] Listen in 15 minutes we're gonna have our, and, and for us that works. Some people like timers, you know, I've heard people tell me when they have a timer, their kid kind of freaks out. And I'm like, you should stick with timers in whatever way works for you. But I promise you there will be one that has to. [00:40:58] Has to be you. Yes. They might not like [00:41:00] seeing a visual timer, but they might like hearing that the time is coming. You know, they might not like having, I don't know, alarm go off, but they might like a touch on the shoulder being like, you know, we have about five minutes left. There's all these different things you can do. [00:41:14] Yes. But I think knowing how the, you know, that time is passing is important because time blindness is a real issue. It's real. Yes. Not realizing that time is passing when you're having a good time and not realizing that this time will pass when something not so entertaining is happening. It's frustration of being stuck somewhere. [00:41:35] Can be very high kids, adhd, [00:41:38] Maren: very frustrating. It can be the ultimate frustration. Absolutely. I've also heard that even having a, an analog clock on the wall can be very helpful just visually to see the minutes moving. Yeah. Can be very helpful. We've never really relied on that as much, but I know some people just absolutely depend on that, on the visual. [00:41:58] So anyway, [00:42:00] and I know there's, [00:42:00] Tanya: I have a different timer for each of them. That's the visual one. Nice. The kind where, you know, you turn the dial and it shows in red how much time is left, and then it just keeps going down. But I have a different one for each of them because when we first started to do it, and I tried to say like, okay, everyone's gonna work on math for 30 minutes. [00:42:18] The stress level for all the different children was very different. Yeah. Yeah. And it was hard to kind of manage nowadays, like I, I truly let them choose what they're working on at any given time usually. Sure. Like if we're at seat work, you can choose whatever seat work you have for the week. Yeah. [00:42:31] And go forth and conquer. I mean, if you feel like doing math all day, great. If you feel like doing English all day, I am not going to micromanage. Yeah. That's amazing. Having to do eight subjects a day. Yes. But I think that each of them having their own, I just say like, you know, use your timer to help you. [00:42:46] That's, and I don't use them anymore myself, like with them. Mm-hmm. , I'm like, how long do you think this should take you? Is a good question. And then they can say like, I think it'll take 20 minutes. I think it'll take 10. And I'll be like, try, you [00:43:00] know, try and see if you can do it instead of like, definitely get it done. [00:43:03] And if it goes off, I always remind them like, okay, well, you know, you can set it again for the same amount of time if you think you didn't get far, or you can set it for like two minutes and see if you can wrap it up, you know, and then it becomes, Like a challenge, not so boring and not so not such a disappointment to themselves, you know, that they didn't finish in time. [00:43:23] It's like, it's fine. It's totally your timer, like you use it however you [00:43:28] Maren: want. That's so, that's so, so empowering, and it goes back to your, oh, you know, believe, believe in your, in your kids. And if they say, this is what I think I can do it in, then, you know, give them that power and, and let them try it. [00:43:42] Another thing that I've, I've definitely noticed with kids with ADHD and people including myself, is trying things is sometimes the best learning. I mean mm-hmm. , it's so powerful to put that prac, you know, the trying it's almost like, it's almost like an [00:44:00] experiment and you find out yourself firsthand if something worked or. [00:44:04] It doesn't matter how many people tell you you know, the best practice or the best way to do this, you just have to try it and make lots of mistakes. And and sometimes that's just it. It can look like a lot of tough life lessons. Mm-hmm. . But I would never call any of them fail failures. . It's just really moving forward in a, in it's moving forward in a different direction and learning which way works best for you. [00:44:30] And, and, and then it's the most effective way because you've learned this path is the way that works. Because I know I've experienced all the other 10 ways and those didn't work, and now I absolutely a hundred percent no. This is the way I wanna go with full confidence. And so I think kids with ADHD when they're given that, like you just gave 'em that opportunity to like make those choices. [00:44:51] It might not look like a success that day, but I would a hundred percent call it, you know, it a success because they've figured out what doesn't [00:45:00] work or what does work. I mean, who knows? You never know. Yeah. [00:45:04] Tanya: One of the most helpful things recently has been we've been putting Pomodoro timers up on the tv. [00:45:09] Awesome. YouTube on my phone you can search Pomodoro timer. The whole concept is that, you know, you work for a certain amount of time and you take a break and then you work for a certain amount of time, take a break, and you do a couple cycles of like 25 5 or you know, 30 10 and then you take a big long break. [00:45:23] And I think my kids have had so much fun picking the to Pomo do timer for the day. Like some of them will have like a color move across the TV screen as you get to completion. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , some of them will have a wheel. Some of them will just have, you know, as smr, a Hogwarts study room or whatever. [00:45:37] Yes. And they love it. And they've named the different Pomo do timers. So some of them are like Simon and Fred and I don't know how, they're just like, graphics so great, but like everything you can do to make it seem like you are. Team environment with them. And yes, the things that are giving us difficulty don't necessarily have to be not fun. [00:45:58] You know, maybe [00:46:00] there's people who never need a Pomo door timer and they just know how to work for an hour time. Sure, sure. None of us in our house are those people. No. And so this is like a really fun thing. You know, you start the day and you're like, what are we gonna like watch today? Like, you know, who's the character? [00:46:14] What sound are we gonna be in? Are we gonna be in this slithering room? Are we gonna be in a Hufflepuff room? And so you have this easy but productive way to like, you know, help yourself along in like a way. And I think that's important forever, right? Yeah. For our adult life too. I mean, the things we need help with don't all have to be boring and dull and like, [00:46:37] Maren: Yes. [00:46:38] And I've used, I've actually used a Pomodoro app like that too, as kind of, I kind of think of it as a body double too, which is a lot of ADHD years. Talk about having a body double, just meaning there's somebody could be somebody, something could be a dog, it could be any pet that's near you. That just, it, it's almost just like a [00:47:00] companion a little bit mm-hmm. [00:47:02] and helps you get your work done. And there's just something about that. I, you know, I often like to work in the same room with my dog and it's just because, I don't know. I can, I feel like I can concentrate more. And this is a real thing for people with adhd and I think those Pomodoro apps are sometimes I put on, oh, we put on YouTube you know, chill hop and it's just a raccoon, you know, going for a walk around a lake and there's music and [00:47:26] Tanya: the love. [00:47:27] That one. I never thought about it in the way you're describing that. It's like a companion, but it totally is. It is. [00:47:32] Maren: It is. [00:47:33] Tanya: Yeah. It's like having a friend with you. Like I always tell my kids, and again, this is because my son, like always be your own best friend. Like, if you would never beat up your friend verbally, you know, for a mistake they made really, for almost any mistake. [00:47:47] And I think that's the way it should be for our own self-talk. You know? So for them, I'm always like, when we melt down, when we have a negative thing happen mm-hmm. , like, who's responsible for that? We are ourselves, like we are in control of [00:48:00] ourselves. When you melt down, you're in control of that. When I melt down, I'm in control of that, but. [00:48:04] We shouldn't then beat ourselves up for it. Yeah. Because we should be our own best friend. We should say like, Hey, that did not go well . Right. Well, like, it's okay. Like, you know, you are loved, you are with your people. It's going to be okay. You love them, you're a good person. Like it's fine. You know? Yeah. [00:48:23] Like nothing is the end of the world. And I think sometimes, especially when we first come into parenting a child with adhd and you first experience this pushback. Mm-hmm. , you can feel like it's the end of the world. You can feel like, look at all these other people at the park whose kids are just like doing the things and like coming when called and like not throwing a fit because the swings are occupied or whatever. [00:48:45] And I think really learning to understand that it's not the end of the world. That this is just, you know, an opportunity to honestly be so much closer to your kids. It really is like, Oh, [00:48:58] Maren: totally. I, [00:49:00] I, I can't agree with you more. And I do think, like, I do remember that feeling, especially when our, our oldest was diagnosed with adhd. [00:49:07] It was our first, you know, experience in the family with the diagnosis. And the psychologist just said, you know, she's probably never gonna, you know, when she gets changed at a restaurant or, you know, at a store is not gonna be able to count it right then and there and make sure it's the right amount because it's just, you know, it's too, it's too fast. [00:49:24] And, you know, it's just the, the whole environment is, is too stimulating. And it would just be, it, it's overwhelming at that point to like count the change. Right. And I just thought, oh no, in my mind just, just despair. But. I now think , oh my goodness, what a small price to pay for the brilliance of that ADHD mind in our family, and the contribution this amazing human is bringing to the world and continues and will continue to bring to the world. [00:49:59] I'm just like [00:50:00] so grateful for that. And I know, I, I just think kids with ADHD minds just are so brilliant, creative, innovative I think they're gonna be the change makers of the world. They're [00:50:14] Tanya: often so friendly. Yes. They're so willing in spite of all of the, the negative kind of comments and reprimands and things. [00:50:23] They're so willing to have a good time. I think. Yes. You know? Yeah. On for sure. Larger scale. I, in our little co-op group, we have kids of all different, A small little group, but one of the moms in my group and a mom who has I think, incredibly well behaved children, you know? Mm-hmm. has four kids who are lovely little boys, and she did me like an enormous kindness because one day she came up and said, you know, I love seeing how Gabriel, who's so much older than the rest, you know? [00:50:48] Mm-hmm. definitely just like brings them like an idea, like there's a game, you're in an open field, there's nothing to do, but like, there's a game. There's a whole like adventure [00:51:00] planned, you know? It's always spontaneous and it's always something that engages everyone and involves people and. I see that so often with other kids, with adhd, like his friends, they come up with so many, you know, like interesting things. [00:51:13] Yeah. Like not the usual, we're never going on just a bike ride. We're never just, you know, at the park there's always like some sort of LA adventure going [00:51:21] Maren: on . Exactly. Yeah. They may not sit for the lesson that you had in your mind that thought you thought were was gonna be this great, you know, experience. [00:51:30] But then later on the day they might come up with this great discussion topic that you have for like 45 minutes and you're like, whoa. That was like mind blowing compared to, you know, what I had planned. And so I just think if we can let go of our own expectations in those ways, they're like, the learning is really limitless. [00:51:51] All right. And [00:51:51] Tanya: letting go of our own idea of how it should be. Yep. What it should look like. [00:51:55] Maren: Exactly. All right. All right, Tanya. Well, thank you so much for being [00:52:00] here. I love talking with you about this so much. So I appreciate it so much. Where can we Great to talk to you too. Good, good. Where can we find you? [00:52:08] Tanya: The best place to find me are on Instagram at Project Tappy Home and on YouTube, project Tappy Home. YouTube has actually just started the the, I don't know what you call them, but the, where you have like a hashtag thing where it's at something. Oh, yeah. So you can use those now on YouTube and find people. [00:52:26] But if you wanted to hear about ADHD in particular because you have a child with adhd or you look ways to manage one thing or another. Mm-hmm. , I have a specific ADHD playlist on there. Awesome. And then everything else is homeschool related pretty much. Okay. [00:52:41] Maren: Great. Well, thank you so much. Thanks so much. [00:52:45] Angela: Let's move on to our l t. Ws Loving this weeks. Angela, what do you loving this week? All right. I am loving an audiobook, . Nice. It is called Bad Vibes Only. Ooh, I'm [00:53:00] Nora McInerney. Okay. Nora, I just recently found her and love her, so she has her own podcast called Terrible Things for Asking. [00:53:11] Okay. Yes. And she talks about grief and she's also. Funny. So those two things kind of go together on her podcast. But I don't always listen to her podcast. But her book is just, it's just a series of essays, sort of memoirish love that. She's written a few different books, so I'm probably gonna go back, I don't know if this is similar to her other books, because she's. [00:53:35] Okay. She's a little bit younger than us. She's probably, I don't know, late thirties, maybe 40. Okay. She's a Minnesotan, so, and her voice is like so comforting to me. So she has that Minnesota accent, but also I love it. It's like, Also her voice is soothing. Mm. So I just love listening to her and I loved her book. [00:53:57] I related to like all the essays, [00:54:00] I related to them completely. And she's so great. It was funny and fun to listen to. It was like a fun listen. So I love that. And also, she's a great follow on Instagram. She's one of my new favorites and I think her Instagram handle is Nora Bali. And Okay. She's good there too. [00:54:18] So. And her pockets. Yeah. Favorite all the things that you just described are just that, just like you know, checks off a lot of boxes that I would like and a good audiobook. So yes. Like, I think you would like it mar because it's an easy, fun lesson. It's great. It will take your mind off other things, but also like [00:54:37] It's relatable. So awesome. Super relatable. Okay, . So, okay. What are you loving? Me? Okay, I'm loving. You know the box office winner, black Panther, Wakanda Forever? Oh yeah. You saw it? I did. Okay. Yes. Have you seen it yet? No. Okay. But a couple people in my family have. It's amazing. It is. Okay. So amazing. [00:54:59] And I [00:55:00] mean, I, because I love the first one so much too. I just, I came in like just on fire for this, and it did not disappoint. It did not disappoint at all. In fact, I was blown away. Oh, wow. Especially by the acting of the. The whole story is surrounded. I mean, it's based on the women. It is. It is a women led cast. [00:55:29] These actors are fa No, I just, I know that oftentimes Auction movies like this don't usually get the Oscar, you know? So you know, the actor, the actors don't get nominated or whatever. Yeah. I just think they need to, I really hope that changes this year, especially Angela Bassett. Oh yeah. I heard like best performance ever. [00:55:55] Her. That's awesome. And Latisha Wright who plays Surey, who, you know, [00:56:00] stepping up into this, you know, her new role. And it is just phenomenal. I I, it's so great. I love that they just put, you can tell they just put their all into this movie that everybody who was involved in it just mm-hmm. just doesn't fit it. [00:56:14] Nailed it. It was so great. That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear because it. Big shoes to fill it. And after, of course, after Chad Boot Chadwick Mosman died, you wonder how they're gonna handle that. So I'm just so glad they Yes, I do wanna see that. Definitely. Yeah. You're gonna love it. And I know you don't, you might not go to all the Marvel movies. [00:56:33] No. This is the one, but I will This one. Yes, you would. This one. And anybody else, if you're in that, you know, in that situation where you're like, I, I'm not gonna go see, you know, like Avengers five or whatever, . That's totally, I get that. But this is, you will, I think you're gonna really love this one. Okay. [00:56:49] That's awesome. That's a great story too. It just, you know, the story in and of itself, just this movie is so great. Mm-hmm. . So even if you haven't seen any of 'em, you'll love it. Yeah. Okay. [00:57:00] All right. Well thank you to our three sponsors, blare Out School at Night Zookeeper. Be sure to check out all of their links in our show notes. [00:57:10] This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Marron Go. We are listeners supported to get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your membership. Go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive email@example.com slash newsletter. [00:57:33] You can find Mar on Instagram at unrefined and at always Learning with Mar. Find Angela at unfi. Angela. [00:57:42] [00:58:00]
Data Mesh Radio Patreon - get access to interviews well before they are releasedEpisode list and links to all available episode transcripts (most interviews from #32 on) hereProvided as a free resource by DataStax AstraDB; George Trujillo's contact info: email (firstname.lastname@example.org) and LinkedInTranscript for this episode (link) provided by Starburst. See their Data Mesh Summit recordings here and their great data mesh resource center here. You can download their Data Mesh for Dummies e-book (info gated) here.Alex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-bross-33853837/In this episode, Scott interviewed Alex Bross, VP of Data Engineering at Fifth Third Bank. To be clear, Alex was only representing his own views on the episode.Some key takeaways/thoughts from Alex's point of view:Start from empathy. Being able to empathize with someone will give you a far better chance of understanding their context. And analytics is really about understanding what the data shows with the applicable context.There are 3 main barriers to change: logic, credibility, and emotion. Don't skip any of them.Microservices can teach us a LOT about how to distribute data, especially from the people angle. When moving from the monolith with single branch development to API-driven microservices, how did people feel? How did we get them to the right place mentally and capability-wise? We should learn from that and leverage it for data mesh.Don't try to do all your disruption at once. And data mesh is a disruption to the status quo. The business has a cadence, look to fit to that as best as possible.When looking where to begin with something like data mesh, look at need and/or desire. Is there a team that is really struggling and needs change? Or is there a team very willing to try it out?It's very difficult to have positive change with a team that is already struggling. If you are going to work with them now, make sure to be there to help instead of demand change.Catalysts lower the amount of energy needed in a chemical equation. Be a catalyst for change - make it less difficult to change. Focus on that and many - most? - domains will welcome you with open arms.Business users are, by and large, much more digital and data literate than historically. With a moderate amount of upskilling,...
Robert Bogue, from Thor Projects, talks about the importance of having empathetic conversations in remote and hybrid teams. Rob and Wayne discuss cognitive empathy, what empathy really is, and motivational interviewing. Additional Resources Art of Empathetic Conversations Online Course Book review mentioning Argyris Robert's Blog Thor Projects Learn more about Wayne Turmel Email Wayne Turmel Purchase a copy of The Long-Distance Leader Purchase a copy of The Long-Distance Teammate The Remote Leadership Institute The Kevin Eikenberry Group Join us for a powerful, 4-part video series titled, Demystifying Remote Leadership. You will learn how to create solid working relationships in a virtual team with more confidence and less stress! Sign up: https://longdistanceworklife.com/video Want us to answer one of your questions? Contact Us!
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In September 2017, Enrique Rubio saw a problem - the world of technology was moving so fast, and HR was moving very slowly (it at all). It was completely disconnected from how the technology was moving the world forward. So he decided to do something about.Today, Don and Enrique talk about Hacking HR, HR trends, creating a better and more equitable workplace, and how to be a more empathetic leader. Enrique Rubio is the Founder of Hacking HR, a global learning community of HR and business leaders, HR practitioners, vendors, consultants, and everyone else interested in learning, sharing, collaborating and advancing the HR profession. High Octane Leadership is hosted by The Diversity Movement CEO and executive coach Donald Thompson, and is a production of Earfluence. DEI Navigator offers access to our award-winning team of proven business leaders and certified diversity executives, along with expert curated content, how-to guides, specialized training, and a community of peers sharing their ideas and lessons learned — all at a fraction of the cost of hiring a full-service DEI consultancy.Pre-order UNDERESTIMATED: A CEO'S UNLIKELY PATH TO SUCCESS, by Donald Thompson.
At the Professional Tennis Registry (PTR) symposium, Emma Doyle had the pleasure of meeting high-performance coach, Martin Parkes. Martin has a very diverse coaching background from being a top junior player from the UK to working with professional players on the tour. He believes in the power of empathy, listening, care, trust, and communication, and using tennis as a tool for people to better themselves. Here are some of the highlights; Worst coaching moment; When the culture isn't right - trust your gut 1.09 Best coaching moment: Creating a great culture is all about "learning from your successes and building on them." 2:28 Sliding Doors: Performance profiles - does the player see what you see? How to focus on your strengths 4:47 What makes a Great Coach? 6:48 (Empathetic listener - communication) Lesson from Allistair McCaw: "I fail every day. Failure is just part of success." 9.08 How important is it to be adaptable? Are you doing the things necessary to keep learning and growing? Are you focusing your energy on the areas that you are greatest at? Are you focusing on less to achieve more? From 9.46 Resilience: 17 years, 14 different visas, 4 immigration lawyers, and $50,000 dollars for Martin to gain his green card and to fulfill living his dreams 13.00 Mindset: Who is the person in front of you? 15.30 Don't wait for your dream to come true - act as if it has already happened now! 17.07 Martin's new book which is coming soon is called, LOVE 40 - Making better lives through tennis 18.47 Are you learning "from" a coach OR "with" a coach for your growth and the growth of others (it's a different perspective) 13.17 What is the difference between a mentor, coach, and psychologist? 19.42 Your best training partner is the wall! 23.39 The skill of learning itself is not just defined by information 27.16 Directors of clubs: Creative ideas will open up new possibilities for this next generation of coaches 32.11 Top tips on igniting coaches' interest in understanding learning - ask yourself: 1) What are your learning outlets? 33.31 2) Do you think there is a difference between learning and development? 34.24 3) Recommendation: Take 1 day a month when you are learning and/or developing and work on not asking questions or not responding and simply just listen and absorb the information or situation (we learn when we are in silence) 32.52 What's next? 34.22 The Coaching Podcast is sponsored by Transition Coach 4 Athletes - a US college placement and mentoring service run by Tina Samara. Visit: www.transitioncoach4athlets.com or email: email@example.com Bio: Martin Parkes A former top junior and professional tennis player from Yorkshire in the U.K., Coach Parkes has been based in the U.S. over the last 22 years and has over 25+ years of coaching and tennis industry experience at every competitive level and educational component of the sport. His coaching philosophy is: “Making Better Lives Through Tennis” Career Highlights: Was honored to earn an EB-1 US Green Card in 2017 for my contributions and influences within my professional career and the tennis industry 10 years working for Saddlebrook International Tennis Academy and the Lawn Tennis Association in high-performance and competitive player development roles Coached Saint Leo D2 university men's team to a #1 team ranking, #1 ranked doubles team, and NCAA national final and contributed to the women's teams to two Final 4 appearances Completed my bachelor's in Psychology & Exercise Science and later my MBA in sports business with a focus on athletic programs and performance Traveling coach/friend to Jonathan Marray the "2012 Wimbledon men's doubles champion" Fortunate to have gained significant exposure, experiences, and leadership opportunities that enabled me to learn from the very best in the tennis industry on a variety of professional platforms Having a 1% influence or impact with 100's of students through the sport of tennis during their personal developmental journeys, who have gone on to become top professionals, represent their countries, or play for some of the top collegiate programs in the US Learn more: Website: www.martinparkestennis.com Follow Martin on Instagram: @martinparkestennis
Join us as we talk all about outsourcing in our homeschools with Amir Nathoo, CEO of Outschool. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings: Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription LTWs Maren: Hex Performance Laundry Detergent Angela: Love Is Blind, Season 3 Connect with us! Visit our website Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren Email us any questions or feedback at firstname.lastname@example.org Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:10] Angela: Hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool, Unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters, together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling. We're here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:29] Maren: At Homeschool Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating LGBTQ plus and [00:00:44] Angela: bipo voices. We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:48] Whether you're a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at home or all your kids are in school, or somewhere in between. Wherever you are in your [00:01:00] journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are your kids. Please excuse our voices [00:01:06] Maren: today as we, both Angela and I both have colds that we are recovering from. [00:01:10] We're getting over it, but it's they're lingering . Yeah, for sure. We're gonna make it through. But this episode is bonus episode 200, Outsourcing with Amir Ou and we'll talk all about our favorite way to outsource and then we're gonna end like we always do with our lt. Ws loving this. [00:01:29] We know [00:01:30] Angela: teaching reading and writing can be a challenge. [00:01:32] That's why we are excited to introduce you to Night Zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may just be what you've been looking for. Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focused on develop. [00:01:55] Awesome reading and writing skills all while having fun at the same [00:02:00] time. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors and the super safe community pages where children can work with each other and learn together. If Night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. [00:02:18] When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off an annual subscription. That's a great deal [00:02:25] Maren: if you ask me. Did you know my family spent a year traveling around the United States? Yep. I, and I wish I would've known about Blossom and Root back then. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. [00:02:46] Boston Root has been gently encouraging in supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added [00:03:00] in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. [00:03:11] Volume one is available for purchase, and volume two is available on pre. All profits from this history curriculum. A river of voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequence. And information about each of their levels online at www.blossomandroot.com. [00:03:35] You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% [00:03:48] Angela: off your purchase. My kids have taken a variety of out school classes throughout the years, from math to grammar, to Star Wars, the Old Republic. [00:03:58] We know kids who love to learn [00:04:00] don't just prepare for the future. They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests. [00:04:15] Connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their learning out. School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family and join us as we set learning free. [00:04:35] Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with the code Unre. [00:04:44] Maren: And we are so excited to have Amir Nathoo the CEO of Out School on our podcast today. I did not have a cold when I did this interview, so it's gonna sound a lot better for you. [00:04:57] But it is just an inspiring [00:05:00] conversation about thinking differently, about about learning. And so I really hope you enjoy this conversation that [00:05:08] Angela: I had with Amir. [00:05:09] Maren: Thank you so much, Amir, for being here today. We're just so excited to have you. [00:05:13] Amir: It's a pleasure. I'm really excited to be talking to you. [00:05:16] Maren: That's just awesome. Okay, so why don't we just get started where you can give us a little bit of information about yourself, your background, and some of your experiences that [00:05:25] Amir: you've had. [00:05:26] Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, as you shared, my name is Amir Nathoo. I'm co-founder and head of out school. I am speaking to you today from San Francisco. Nice. Where I live and have lived for the last 12 years. You can probably tell from my accent that I grew up in England, so originally from the, the. [00:05:42] And you know, moved over here in, in 2009. Okay. And I've always worked in technology and in software from a very young age. That's what I wanted to do. Mm-hmm. and I, I wanted to be an entrepreneur for a long time, and so out school is my second company. Mm-hmm. and moved out to the. Bay area initially [00:06:00] for work and then, you know, fell in love with with the area and and, and the culture and the opportunities here and yeah, I've always been interested in education because both my parents were teachers and I benefited enormously. [00:06:12] Yeah. From that when I was growing up, and not just in terms of like my formal academic education, but even my career in. Software because, you know, they helped me pursue that as a learning experience outside of school. And so really kind of, you know, my own learning experiences and the influence of my parents has, has guided migration of out school. [00:06:34] Maren: That's amazing. So your parents were teachers or educators? What did they [00:06:38] Amir: teach? Yeah, my father was a high school physics teacher, and my mom taught part-time. They had met in London, you know, studying for physics PhD. So, you know, they taught these technical subjects. But actually my father came back to teaching. [00:06:52] He had worked in the family business for a period of time and then created his own business running a kinda a TV and HiFi shop. [00:07:00] So he, he always had this combination of, Entrepreneurship and, and learning. That was, yeah, really valuable to me growing up. [00:07:07] Maren: Okay. Yes. Cuz I was going to ask you, I know your father really did have influence in you in, in starting out school. [00:07:14] Was it those experiences or were there other things too that helped you decide to start out? [00:07:21] Amir: Yeah. You know, it's, it, it's really interesting when I look back, you know, I, I, I've always known he's had a very big influence on me. Mm-hmm. , when I look back, it's, it's now kind of amazing how much you know, the fact I think that he was, you know, an entrepreneur himself. [00:07:35] So we're always talking about business ideas around the kitchen table. And the fact that he was a teacher not only helped me with my. Learning. But then as I was reflecting later about what kind of business I wanted to start and what kind of area I wanted to work in you know, it was, it was, you know, very influential from that perspective. [00:07:52] But I think one specific thing that, that happens that was incredibly influential for me in the founding of out school was that when I was [00:08:00] about someone between five and seven years old, my father bought me a computer. Old BBC Micro to play games on and, you know, he ran this high-fi shop and TV shop and so, you know, computers were sold through shops like that. [00:08:12] So he, he could see these kind of technologies. Oh, that'd be cool. And, you know, I started playing with it. And back in those days you kind of had to program it in order to Yeah. And then the key moment was like, you know, him finding him and, and my mother. Spotting that I was interested in that and helping me get resources to pursue their interest. [00:08:30] And, you know, that that's kind of key to the inspiration behind Out school was we were reflecting on that, that learning experience that they helped me find was just so valuable right to my life and career. And it was completely outside. Like normal curriculum, like nowadays. Exactly. Computer science, these things that, that, you know, people know they're valuable. [00:08:47] Back then it was just a toy. They didn't do it because they didn't help me pursue their interest cause they thought it was gonna turn [00:08:52] Maren: into anything. Right. They didn't say, We would like you to learn coding. We, we know this is a the future and you need to learn this. [00:08:59] Amir: They [00:09:00] didn't like that. And you know, the lesson I take away from that isn't that everyone should learn coding then days. [00:09:04] I think that's, you could probably treat it as a core subject that, you know, maybe kids should learn, but instead it shows the power of the pursuit of. Both in terms of kinda motivating children and in terms of some of those interests are gonna turn out to be extremely important and valuable. Right. [00:09:19] It's very hard to [00:09:20] pick [00:09:20] Maren: which. Yep, exactly. And we don't know today what our kids are going to latch onto and and pursue as a career either. And we, you know, we can't know and we. Shouldn't, and that's okay. But we do, we do have this power to give them like the freedom to pursue their interests and learn how to learn. [00:09:41] How to learn is really what we talk about a lot or lo you know, learning how to love learning . We talk about that on our podcast a lot. Just enjoying the process of learning because when you have that, when you have the experience of enjoying learning you know, learning is limit [00:10:00] limitless. You can, you, the world is your oyster when you love learning. [00:10:04] Amir: Hundred percent could not agree more with that. Yeah. And you know, the other, the other part of that is also we don't know where the world is gonna be in 20 years time. Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, we have to prepare our kids with kind of not only with kind of knowledge that we think they, they need to know based on our own experience, but we have to. [00:10:20] Recognize that our own knowledge is limited. We can't predict the future, and we have to prepare them for an uncertain changing world, which for me involves like much greater breadth and focusing on the ability to learn and the confidence. Yes. The love of learning, as you say. Much more so than you know historically in education we've been talking [00:10:38] Maren: about. [00:10:38] Exactly. Okay. And so this, these were the experiences you had as a child, and then you went into the tech world and you decided to start out school. How did that come about? And how does it, how did it start? How did it, how did it start working too? I know that it's evolved throughout the years, so what, what was the beginning about? [00:10:59] Amir: Yeah, [00:11:00] totally. It, it's really fun to reflect on that for me. Mm-hmm. , you know, I founded out at school in 2015. Okay. Yep. You, I've spoken a little bit about some of the inspirations, but you know, a key motivation going in was I knew I wanted to have my own kids . Yep. Didn't have kids then now I have a a three and three quarter year old and a, and a 16 month old. [00:11:18] Oh, wow. And I, you know, I wanted to, you know, build something that they might use and to integrate in my future family life with my work. And that got me reflecting on education, my own education, what I would want for them. And some of the topics we talked about, about, yes. This realization that, oh, what's needed in the future doesn't seem to. [00:11:38] You know look like the traditional education that I went through, as well as recognizing this discrepancy between what has been most impactful for me versus my, my formal education. And then combined with that, you know, insights from the tech world, you know, at the time we were seeing marketplace models really change how various industries were. [00:11:59] Were structured and [00:12:00] you know, Lyft, an Uber, you could order like a ride share just to click on a button. Right? And, and it became, you know, this realization came like, why is it that when this technology clearly can make that work, I can't click a button and get a class my, instead, I have to think about enrolling them in an institution. [00:12:22] Where you months and months in advance, where there's a set curriculum that's centrally set, this makes no sense, right? Clearly we could do better, do better a technology perspective. But then I started thinking, well, why, You know, the technology's there and I started to realize the limiting factors were, you know, I guess. [00:12:38] People's kind of concern about how that would actually work. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. People care so much about kids' education and, and school and, and traditional schooling is so embedded in our society. Yep. And I started forming this thesis that, you know, that's why that it's been kind of slow at a change. And that, but at some point the pressures and the you know, on it, were gonna become too great. [00:12:59] It would [00:13:00] have to find a difference and better way that's more suited to the future. And so I started looking around saying, well, who's innovating? Not from a technology perspective, but from a social perspective. Right. And that's why I discovered homeschooling and, you know, I had certain preconceptions about homeschooling, which, you know, I'm sure you and your listeners are very familiar with and lots of. [00:13:19] Have those preconceptions. Yes. But when I learned about it more, I realized, oh, this isn't what I expected. Yeah. And not only that, but I thought that there were many parts of it, which looked like what the future of education should be, and that no one from a technology perspective was helping enable. [00:13:36] This kind of you know, this kind of activity. And that's really, you know, when yeah, the light bulb moment came off. There's a match between what technology can provide, what is needed for the future, and there's this existing community who was already kind of living in the future. [00:13:48] Maren: Can I ask you, what were the things that you saw in homeschool that you thought, Oh, this is different than what I thought This is actually, these are actually really great things that I'm seeing in homeschooling. [00:13:58] What were some of those? [00:14:00] [00:14:00] Amir: Well, first off, the realization that, you know, homeschooling was not people staying at home. Hello. Yeah, exactly. Parents, I mean it's, I mean, it's more obvious now that more people have experienced you know, learning at alternative forms of learning, you know, through the pandemic. [00:14:16] But you know, it wasn't obvious from an outsider then. And I know like, you know, now it just seems kind of, you know, silly that people think about Yeah. . But you know, that was first. Like, it was like, oh, like people aren't just at home. They are collaborating with fellow parents, they're bringing in teachers having a social experience. [00:14:34] And then, you know, the other pieces were you know, parents reporting that they could keep up with. The standard curriculum, standard requirements with much less effort. Yes. If you are more willing to go with the flow, like, don't try and get kids to learn at 8:00 AM if that's not what they wanna do exactly. [00:14:51] Instead wait until they're ready and then you get rid of a whole bunch of kind of resistance or issues. And then, you know, you don't have to deal with constraints [00:15:00] of an institution that has to have like this, you know, rigid schedule. And, you know, you know everything that comes, comes along with that. [00:15:06] Right, Right. And so it was just, it was just like really eye opening and really inspiring. And then one more thing, Sorry, I can wax lyric about this for ages. That reflection on the, So, well, one more thing was just like, I get it. The ability to pursue interests. Like the, you know, a parent told me, you know, Hey, my kid wanted to learn about volcanoes for a week and instead of just doing like one session on volcanoes, we just spent the entire week on volcanoes. [00:15:30] But yes, and we study science through volcanoes. We study geography from geology through volcanoes. We did art, We drew volcanoes. It's not like you're not doing the subjects by focusing on that interest, but allowed them to kind of create an arc with a family that really used the fact that the kid was so interested in it. [00:15:47] Exactly, and that just seemed like so different and so much better. Than what a traditional system could offer, at least back then. [00:15:55] Maren: Yes. And it's also internally motivated too when, when your child [00:16:00] is interested in volcanoes, they would, you cannot help but learn all about everything about volcanoes. I mean, just everything. [00:16:06] It's just they want it all and it's all just so natural and the most motivating way to learn, and it's efficient. It's like the most efficient way to learn. It all just happens. So effect. Yes. So that's awesome. Okay. So then you, when you started out school, you had a few classes or how did it start? [00:16:29] Amir: Well, you know, even before founding the company mm-hmm. [00:16:31] you know, best practice, it's like test the idea, you know, is this, it can work, Is this something that anyone would be willing to kind of pay for? Sure. And the theory was that, you know, if there could be a platform that could take some of the burden away from organizing these learning experiences from families, then that's something that that will be valuable and that will be yeah. [00:16:47] And you know, I found a friend who was at the time, a postgraduate researcher at U C S F who was doing just really interesting research in stem cell biology. And I said, Hey, could you te, could you. [00:17:00] Teach this, but to a group of gifted 12 year olds who I know are like interested in science. [00:17:05] They're interested in science that they couldn't necessarily get in the regular textbook. Great. And he said, Yeah, I can do that. I told him all about like what the theory was and yeah, what we're trying to do here. And then you, It's so amazing. I got connected with a group of you know, gifted homeschoolers in the Bay Area and I asked one of the parents this, Hey, hey, would you mind sounding out your community whether they'd like this? [00:17:25] Like, And then the resounding arts came. Yes, it was sold [00:17:28] Maren: out. I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was and [00:17:31] Amir: sounds amazing. And then the next one, and yeah, we started with these in person experiences. We were just like testing the waters Sure. In the local area. And then I think the second one was, Tour of a local business. [00:17:42] Mm-hmm. , another friend had this warehouse where they were making iPad cases. And I thought, Well, this is cool. Like he's an entrepreneur. Like I also, this is like a visible physical good. So you, you know, let's take a group of kids around, just show them the manufacturing processes, you know, all the teams interested in [00:18:00] entrepreneurship and interested in craft. [00:18:01] Again, just like sold out like , I believe that's you. Before there was even a website or a product, it was just like emails saying, you know, back and forth and these lists. And at that point I realized there was really something here that if we could create a marketplace of these kind of experiences, and not just those that I described, but like any kind of experience, whether it's like. [00:18:22] Academic or career based or social and emotional or you know, anything then that was gonna be very valuable and no one was doing anything like that at the time. The initial early steps [00:18:34] Maren: that reminds me of this is what I love about out school too, is that there. Everyone is an expert. All the teachers on there are just so amazing at what they do, and their little niche is it's priceless. [00:18:50] I mean, you are not gonna get that in even a school setting because teachers, I've, I've been one of them, . I was a public school teacher for eight years, and you just [00:19:00] can't. You can't be an expert in every topic that you teach. You just cannot. It's impossible, but I, one of our favorite classes, Two of my kids took, was this, it's an out school class called the Biology Coloring Club, and I actually posted about it on Instagram a couple or last week. [00:19:17] And Oh, especially my oldest daughter, absolutely loved it. It was super interactive. Without pressure though, because like there was no test, there was no final project that needed to be presented. It was just about this internal learning and. Kids got to color these very intricate, beautiful like systems of the body. [00:19:38] And the teacher who is a doctor to, you know, took, gave a, gave the kids like these super interesting facts about this, this system of the body. And my daughter learned so much that like, it's actually she's been inspired to pursue science. Career and Wow. Like, you know, she's just like thinking [00:20:00] about all these. [00:20:00] She's just, because she's actually was like such an artist before we knew that. But like this class really brought art into science and it was just kinda like this explosion of learning and growth and like awareness that she could be. She could use her creativity in science actually too. There's a, I mean, science innately is, you have to be pretty creative to, you know, like think of possibilities. [00:20:28] Yeah. And outside the box and things like that. But this class kinda like brought it all together anyway. I could just I can see the value of all the varieties of ways you can learn on out school cuz we've experienced them personally, ourselves. So you, can you tell us about like some of those options and how they've you know, what you can choose from and, and how kids might be able to learn on [00:20:51] Amir: old. [00:20:51] Yeah. And you've really captured so much of it, and I'm so grateful that your, you, your daughters enjoyed that, that class. But you know, you, you [00:21:00] captured it in that we have these teachers who create these really unique, compelling classes that really play to their strengths. Mm-hmm. and their skills. And in fact, we encourage teachers as part of their reward. [00:21:10] Hey, Like teach things that you personally are passionate about in ways that you are excited about, but that will come through in the class, and that's how you get, you know this you know, doctor teaching, biology, biology color. Right? And You know, we have now 140,000 class on the sites. There's tremendous variety. [00:21:28] It's amazing across all, all subjects. You know, anything that you can imagine, some stuff that you, you can't imagine. And you know, some of the classes that jump out to me are things like the science of bots. Parents love it, but it's actually really good sciences. Kids love it because FARs are hilarious. [00:21:47] and so everyone's happy. Exactly. You know, that's the thing. Often in education, it's the case. Oh, you know, parents feel like they have to make the kid do this. Kid's not really interested. Yeah. Yeah. Like we try to avoid that. It's possible to avoid that. You just need to have like a bit of [00:22:00] creativity as a, as a parent and a teacher, and you know, The approach where we take this marketplace based approach where we don't insist on any particular curriculum, lets that to happen. [00:22:09] So that's one example. I'm, I'm picking through a couple of others on the site right now. Great. There's one called Being a good Friend. I love that. And the power of confident communication and getting along. Yes. So socially and emotional learning. The weirdest things animals do and why [00:22:24] Let's bust some common animal myths. You know, you see how this is both interesting for kids and involves some cool learning. And then we have classes on trigonometry, you know? Exactly. Advanced trigonometry. And you know, if your kid is. Head on that this is an opportunity to kind of double down on an interest in, in math create a business to help humanity, an entrepreneurship course. [00:22:45] So we have just this tremendous sobriety and, you know, like you, you know, I've now seen it work for myself because you know, I founded out school. I didn't have kids yet. I wanted to have kids, you know, Now I have a three and three quarter year old. And on his third birthday, of course, what did I do? I took the airplane.[00:23:00] [00:23:00] Yeah, no, out school. So let me try this out. And thankfully he loved it. awesome. There was this potential kind of path where I'd created this and company and, and then he didn't like it. But thankfully he loves it and he's now in lots of classes. And it's incredible to see the development. You know, I did not, That's so, Sign him up to class. [00:23:19] You know, I'm with the intent of like making him more advanced. That's not really how I think about education. My aspirations for him, you know, I I'm, I'm not trying to get him into a fancy college or like be ahead anyway, but, and at the same time, taking these interest based classes is just upleveled him in terms. [00:23:38] Confidence, interaction and some of the, some of the content that he's learning in terms of reading and writing and, and numbers. And so, you know, I, I see that firsthand [00:23:48] Maren: too. Yes. That's awesome. I, I see that, I see the value in, like I said, like this process of learning. Our, our kids are practicing learning and loving to learn too. [00:23:58] Because like I was [00:24:00] thinking of some other classes, like my kids have taken city planning. But it's all based on Lego Legos. So Cool. That was awesome. Also, my kids have gone down phases of like, they're, they've been really into frogs and so we just, we signed up for like a life cycle of frogs class, and then also got to show our frogs to the class, you know, the, the frogs that we've been catching until it just, you know, It actually, I think, also gives value to what they're interested in. [00:24:29] It gives 'em value. It's like this is actually an official learning. This is learning. And so it, it, you know, it's just so empowering and so that's one another reason why I absolutely love out school. And then something like trigonometry where I, you know, would be so overwhelmed to even think about teaching a class like trigonometry. [00:24:47] To be able to hand that over to someone who really does know and love trigonometry down a tree is very relieving to me. . [00:24:56] Amir: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's definitely room for that. You, you don't, [00:25:00] Don't have to and you shouldn't have to do it all [00:25:01] Maren: yourself, is that? No. And that's the great thing about homeschooling now in today, today versus, you know, 20 years from now you can sign up for a class that it's all encompassing. [00:25:12] It's just so, it's just right there and then, and the people who teach these classes are just really passionate about it. So it's just a win-win for sure. I know there are lots of kids, including my own, who have learning differences. Who really do well in out school classes. Can you tell us more about that? [00:25:30] How you keep kids in mind, who learn differently and how they can be successful with out school classes. [00:25:38] Amir: A hundred percent. And you know, there's multiple parts to that. And, and you know, we have many kids and families in, in out school classes with you know, identified learning differences. But I also like to say that every kid is different and unique. [00:25:51] Exactly. So true. And the power of recognizing the identified learning differences and catering. For them is that you actually benefit all kids. [00:26:00] Yes. And so, you know, a large part of it was just like how the community developed because, you know, the initial set of teachers were very familiar with those learning differences within various you know, homeschooling communities and sub communities. [00:26:11] Right. And families were sensitive to 'em as well. So the very start of our school, you know, always had that built in. And then you know, over time that attracted more and more families and teachers who were able. Handle those learning differences and, and we've now built in, you know, training into our, our teacher programs on, on, on how to do that for teachers that might have less experience coming in and and serving learners with unique needs. [00:26:32] Right. Some of it's also just innate in the model because with a marketplace based approach, people are self selecting in. Yes, you'll learn a, depending on how they want to interact and what the subject is, can pick the right class and teach you, and it's low stakes. So if you try it and it's really not, Gelling, then just take another class floor stake, one time classes or ongoing classes where you just go week by week rather than kind of committing up front to something that you don't know might work for your, your learner. [00:26:58] So all of that helps [00:27:00] support you know, kids with learning differences, whether, whether explicitly identified or or otherwise. And, and also I also one of the benefits of this live online, this online mode of learning over video chat is again, it's lower stakes, it's still social, but you know, you, you know, you could, the different ways to engage through chat or through speaking, you don't have to unmute. [00:27:21] Yes. And, you know, worst case, you know, it's on a computer, you can always just shut the laptop if you, if you give, become very, very, So . So I think all of that lends itself to being you know, positive a positive way for kids with learning differences to engage. And that's something that we really want to keep as we grow out school as community and as [00:27:41] Maren: business. [00:27:41] Yep. That's awesome. And I also, I also think it's just so focused on the experience rather than the outcome. I think that's a really big part for, for kids with learning differences. It's just about the learning. It's just about you know, either the connection or the content. You're learning the interest, and We're not worried about, [00:28:00] like, we're not gonna give you a grade or tell you Right. [00:28:02] What, you know, what your outcome really needs to be necessarily. I know there are some classes where you share things, which is really community oriented too, which I love. Yeah. We've done writing classes where we just. Everybody brings a piece of writing and we share it, and then they learn how to give like, positive feedback and it's just amazing. [00:28:22] So I love that too. Yeah. But it's never about like, there's no shame in your, in your, in your outcome. Which is I think, what a lot of kids learn in school. , unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Yeah. Yeah. So, and then also I think like you, you just, you just mentioned you had you do have some like mental health classes as well. [00:28:43] Well, there was like a social, social emotional learning class that you talked about. Can you tell us more about that too? What those classes might, how they might support kids, especially today. You know, after, you know, we've gone through a pandemic and kids, [00:29:00] I think right now a lot of them are suffering, you know, with mental health issues. [00:29:05] And just wondering how out school can support. [00:29:09] Amir: Yeah. You know, it's a huge area and it's a huge problem right now. Mm-hmm. . And you know, I, I don't think it's just the pandemic. I think there's anything about our society and education, which are, which are causing this. And you know, as a result we see on our school tremendous demand and also, you know, supply of classes around supporting kids. [00:29:28] For example, I'm just looking at class right now. Worry university strategies to increase calm and reduce anxiety. So these kind of social and emotional learning classes groups where there is support and advice and identity based groups that kids can connect with. Others where they might not have that connection or support locally for various reasons. [00:29:49] We don't do medical kind of therapy. Sure. Or, you know, and if kind of individualized learning plan that falls into the, the realm of medical services, which will, which various reasons, Yeah, this [00:30:00] isn't quite the right format for those services. But in terms of social emotional learning, that's a very big part of what, what our school offers with these classes that, again, you would not typically get. [00:30:09] In normal school. [00:30:10] Maren: Right, Exactly. Yep. Yeah, that's what, that's what another thing I love about old school is that there, it's like there are classes for the whole, it's for the whole child. Not just academicy things that are required of them, but just it's really supporting the whole child, which I love. [00:30:25] So do you have any favorite classes? School that you really love. . [00:30:31] Amir: I, I talked about a few, like the science of thoughts. You know, one real surprise for us was there's one well there's, there's now several, in fact, many on Dungeons and Dragons. Oh, fun. The first one was learning critical thinking skills through Dungeons and Dragons. [00:30:46] We ever thought that a class like that could become successful, but when it was first posted it, it became one of the most successful classes on the platform within just a few months. It just goes to show that people really dig this combination of kind of, Yeah. [00:31:00] Important kind of hard skills. Yes. With fun. [00:31:03] That was a great example of that. And then another set of classes, and then several different kinds of them are, are like writing workshops, creative writing. Mm-hmm. talk through Minecraft. Minecraft on the side, as well as like, you know, the Zoom kind of video chats, talk to the teachers and. And [00:31:20] Maren: that, that is [00:31:21] Amir: so great. [00:31:22] Yeah. And it just, again, it's just matching kids interest with, with with kind of skills or Yes. That, that, that parents are excited for their kids to learn and keeps everyone happy and engaged and, and promotes the love of [00:31:35] Maren: learning. Exactly. Yeah. You're meeting your, the kids where they're at and going from there which creates. [00:31:42] Phenomenal environment. I just love that so much. What do you see as the future of out school from here on out? Where is it going and maybe even in general of education, Where is education going? [00:31:56] Amir: Yeah, and you know, I, I hope the two are quite linked cuz we [00:32:00] hope to have like a big positive impact on right. [00:32:01] You know, the future of our school that I wanna see is to create this global learning community where, you know, kids and parents are able to find like exactly the right learning group for their kid at the right time with the right teacher to really engage them and move them forward. And the larger our community gets, the more classes we can offer, the more teachers we can support, and as a result, the kind of better match we can find from four kids with all kinds of needs. [00:32:27] And, you know, we have been, you know, very fortunate to serve about a million learners to date which is a, you know, amazing. Large number. And you know, I'm so grateful for all those families. I also recognize that there's, you know, 58 million K-12 age learners in the US and, and so many more worldwide. [00:32:44] And we have an opportunity to create, you know, a a a different kind of learning experience for, for many, many kids. And one part of that that's really inspiring to me is that. I believe that if kids around the world had positive learning experiences with each other at a [00:33:00] young age, with others from different socioeconomic backgrounds or, you know, different countries or different parts of society, then that would create a lot more empathy and would help towards some of the issues that we see in the world today. [00:33:13] So that's what I hope for out school and, and the hope for the, the impacts that we, we have in education more generally. You know, I hope for. I hope for change in how we think about what's important in kids' education to focus on this love of learning and the ability to learn rather than being so fixated on performance against specific rubrics or subjects. [00:33:33] Yes, and you know, I hope we can you know, have education change to be you know, more dynamic in kids work focused and future looking. [00:33:41] Maren: Absolutely. Ugh. I hope so. I hope, I hope there are, I hope out, out school influences , the way we educate all of our kids because it is a model. I think it's a model. [00:33:54] And I hope, I hope Schools see that? I hope that schools see that. Because it would just, what a, what a [00:34:00] great combination that would be. I don't know, just to be able to utilize out schools so much more. Ugh. Yeah. I get excited about this kind of stuff. I [00:34:07] Amir: get so excited about it. I do too. And, and that's what I hope. [00:34:10] And, but I think we have a lot of work to do. We do use, education is so entrenched that it's gonna take time and it's gonna take examples to shift. And that's why I'm, you know so grateful to be. Part of it along with your community and grateful for the work that you are doing to kind of spread some of these messages about you know, what education could be. [00:34:30] Yeah. [00:34:30] Maren: Thank you. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. All right. Where can we find you? [00:34:36] Amir: So I always love hearing from our community. Feel free to email email@example.com. Out school.com is you know, the, our website I hope many of you're familiar with it. If you're not, would love to, love to see that. [00:34:48] You also find me on, on Twitter, Amir, and so those are places where I, I [00:34:51] Maren: live on. Great. And then also just a reminder, if you sign up with our personal link it is out [00:35:00] schooler.me/hope School. Unrefined. You will get up to $20 off your first class if you enroll with a code unrefined. So keep that in mind. [00:35:09] I highly suggest it's . You probably won't stop at one class, just so you know. All right. Thank you so much, Amir. We appreciate you so much and everything you're. [00:35:20] Amir: Thank you, and likewise. It's been a pleasure to talk. You too. Bye [00:35:24] Maren: bye now. [00:35:25] Angela: All right, let's move on to our lt, Ws our loving this week. Yes, Myron, what are you loving this week? All [00:35:31] Maren: right. Okay. So I am loving a new laundry detergent, and I got this specifically for a certain, this, like certain need that I had. So it is called hex, h e x performance fragrance, Fragrance free laundry detergent. [00:35:46] And I picked it out because it's specifically for. You know, [00:35:50] Angela: sports gear and things like that. Oh, [00:35:52] Maren: yeah. And I got it because, you know, these, you know the shirts that you get for working out, It's like this material. You know what [00:36:00] I'm talking about, you know, performance. Yes. And especially like my husband and I both actually have, like, have these shirts and for some reason they like, they, the odor stays in them even after I wash them with any kind of laundry detergent that I've ever used. [00:36:17] Okay. I mean, I, I'm going for like the strongest stuff, like whatever, you know, And nothing has worked to get, like, it's even sometimes not even a bad spell. It's like deodorant, smell or something, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just not coming out and so's just the material. I guess. I don't know, maybe other people have had this issue too, and they must have, but I found. [00:36:40] Angela: Hex performance [00:36:42] Maren: laundry detergent, and it's so great. I use it just for Sean in my shirts like that because Oh, okay. It's like, it's like the, the only thing that gets out this, this odor and it's, and it's fragrance free, which I really like because I don't actually want lingering [00:37:00] other odor either. [00:37:01] Although I think you can get different fragrances if you. [00:37:05] Angela: Okay, so yeah, So you don't use it on all your laundry, just [00:37:08] Maren: your I don't, I really don't. I just use it for specifically for our, for our shirts, . [00:37:14] Angela: All right. Where do you get it? Amazon. I got it on Target. target.com. Okay. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. , thanks for sharing. [00:37:21] I'm gonna have to check that out because actually I'm running out of my laundry deter, and I was just thinking I need to find something new, so. Mm-hmm. , you might like that out. [00:37:28] Maren: Yep. All right, Angela, [00:37:30] Angela: what are you loving This. I'm loving a show that's back and I'm not even embarrassed about it. It's Love is Blind. [00:37:36] Three. Okay. Season three . Mm-hmm. . And I'm wondering if anybody else is watching. If you are, hit me up because I'm gonna need to discuss As of right now, I'm like one or two episodes from the end, but I'm gonna finish it. Probably by the time this comes out, I'll have finished it. Okay. Yeah, because what I like about it is Jeremy and I binge together mm-hmm. [00:37:55] because he's just as into it as I am and I'm always looking for a show [00:38:00] that grabs our attention and makes us wanna keep going to the next episode. Yeah. Yeah. If you've been around, well, you know Jeremy, like he goes to bed early. Doesn't, He's very he has good boundaries around sleep. He has really good boundaries. [00:38:12] He doesn't let a binge get to him, . And even this, so, but like the show he'll watch with me, not super late, but he'll watch like an episode and a half, or he'll like, stretch it out a little longer than he normally would. And so I'm happy about that. So it's totally you know You know, just for [00:38:28] Maren: fun. [00:38:28] This is just for fun. It's, It is, yes. Yeah. Have you watched? Well, I've actually, I think I only watched season [00:38:34] Angela: one cause I know, I'm trying to think. There was a season [00:38:37] Maren: two. Yeah. How did I miss that? [00:38:42] Angela: Well, now I have more to watch. I also like it, this is gonna sound really weird, but, but like, we talk about relationships when we watch it and like you know, how. [00:38:53] We, we connect it to our relationship or that's gonna work or that's never gonna work. I dunno. It's just fun to like, [00:39:00] discuss relationship dynamics with your . That's so great. So it's on Netflix, You should watch it. I like it because it's, it's contained, it's 10 episodes. Mm-hmm. And you can binge. [00:39:09] That's easy. It's a binger. Okay. It's a bender. That's great. All right, [00:39:13] Maren: well, thank you Angela. Yep. And thank you to our three sponsors, Blossom and Root Out School and Night Zookeeper. Be sure to check out their links in our show notes. [00:39:23] Angela: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Mar Gorse. We are listeners supported to get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your membership. [00:39:33] Go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive firstname.lastname@example.org slash newsletter. You can find on Instagram at unrefined and at always learning with you can find Angela at unrefined. Angela. [00:39:52] [00:40:00]
Welcome to another episode of the Conversations for Financial Professionals podcast where we are shaping the next generation of financial advice. Today I talk with Michael G. Thomas Jr., Ph.D., who is an Accredited Financial Counselor (AFC®) and a lecturer at the University of Georgia. His research focuses on financial empathy and self-compassion, data visualization's effects on financial behavior, and the connection between brain function and money. Dr. Thomas's philosophy on how to effectively interact with money can be summed up in his Ted Talk: Financial Empathy: Understanding the Story Beneath the Numbers. Utilizing financial empathy as a process for active listening and the creation of client-focused financial recommendations are reflected in two financial literacy and capability programs he helped create: Money Dawgs and Discovering Money Solutions. Dr. Thomas is also the founder of Modom Solutions - a virtual financial coaching service he has been providing since 2015. He is also soon to be an author as he expects to release his forthcoming book, Black Financial Culture: Building Wealth from the Inside Out, in the fourth quarter of 2022. In this episode, you'll discover:
The core fundamental that threads through Rani everyday... love. " ... you're the daughter of the owner of this company. You don't even have to work. What is your problem? I said, oh my goodness, look at how the world is. The world is already putting these notions on me that I'm supposed to be entitled. I'm supposed to piggyback off of somebody else's credit even though he's my dad. But what about me? What about the sense that I have earned a position or earned a level of earning or just to be proud of what skills and talents I may be given..” - Rani Puranik (Want to read a full written for reading transcript version of this episode? Download it here.) Who is Rani Puranik? A selfless, caring and hard-working woman who inspires others with her dedication to making the world better one step at a time. Revati Puranik - or Rani as she's known in India - is an absolute entrepreneur success story. Yet she also knows how important it can be for underprivileged kids to have access to education too, so they don't fall behind their peers. It can be challenging when society sees them only coming from disadvantaged homes due lack of resources, and has nothing to do with talent! Rani shares her honest thoughts as someone who turned her back on entitlement As you will hear from the conversation, Rani didn't have to do any of the things she's done in her life and career. She was set. But her determination to turn her back on entitlement makes her such a strong powerful force in the world. And it's little wonder she's so admired and respected. Rani's book "7 Letters To My Daughters" is literally a book of lessons around love, leadership and legacy. You can buy the book here: https://www.ranipuranik.com/seven-letters-to-my-daughters-book/ In this episode, you'll get a real taster of the book's contents as Rani talks all about her experience moving between Houston and India. She shares some impactful wisdom around culture, why Winnie The Pooh is a 'Zen master' and even some advice on how to demonstrate empathetic leadership. Key leadership learning moments 01m17s - Rani's story 11m09s - Younger Rani between the US and India 18m10s - Rani's return to the US and her reinvention 24m29s - Rani's biggest test - letting go 28m31s - How Rani manages to stay focused on her journey 34m16s - The challenges Rani's had to navigate around people and cultures 45m06s - Overcoming challenges over not leaning into entitlement 52m56s - How Rani defines leadership Useful links and shout outs in the episode Rani's book Rani's website Worldwide Oilfield Machine website Follow the podcast If you've just stumbled across this podcast episode by chance, please do click here to follow it so you never miss a future episode. If you want to learn more about this podcast, and myself, Sope Agbelusi, you can do so using any of the below links. Connect with Me Website Instagram LinkedIn Twitter Email: email@example.com I am always keen to hear your thoughts and connect with the community of listeners. If you have any comments, feedback or thoughts, please drop me an email at https://mindsetshift.co.uk/#ask-me-anything
It all began with maple cheesecake. I don't know if it was actually in the book, or if she just got me thinking about it, but when I read Buying Love by Toni Shiloh it not only made me hungry for something I'd never had before, it also introduced me to an author who would become a dear friend. For five years we worked together in an annual Christmas collection (we're still weeping the loss of her this year!), and so like many of her friends, I CHEERED when I heard she got her dream contract with Bethany House... and then... drooled with the rest of the world when the cover for In Search of a Prince came out. Well, her second book in that series is here, and well, it's time to talk about it, don't you think? Note: links may be affiliate links that provide me with a small commission at no extra expense to you. If You Love a Good Cinderella Story Here's One with a New Twist Not all Cinderella stories have to feature downtrodden, unwanted girls with stepsisters with big feet (seriously, cutting off toes and heels? Ugh!) Sometimes it's just an ordinary woman in an ordinary job discovering a secret that transforms her life into the extraordinary! Add to that an unusual setting (West African Island Nation!!!) and intriguing customs and... whew! All the things! Let's just say I've been hoarding that book for ages, waiting for the "right moment" and even after all that... I still haven't read it. However, while editing this episode, I DID put it on my "Currently Reading" shelf on GoodReads. #BecauseDuh! Fun fact: I wasn't the only one who got Princess Diaries vibes when she described the story. I mean, it's not the same at all, but there are elements that, if you pulled them out away from the rest are similar. One of those being... The best friend who goes with her when Brielle from In Search of a Prince goes to assume royal duties. Sound familiar? Yeah, after talking to Toni--not so much. I mean, remember Lily? Bubbly? Optimistic? Empathetic? Not hardly! I love that Toni wrote Iris' story in To Win a Prince, and while it's still languishing in my Audible library, I'm eager to get started. WOOT! To Win a Prince by Toni Shiloh Can she stop herself from falling before she's too far gone? As a fashion aficionado and best friend of the queen of the African island country Ọlọrọ Ilé, Iris Blakely dreams of using her talent to start a sustainable clothing line to help citizens in impoverished areas and honor the country's resources. But when she discovers that Ekon Diallo--the man who betrayed her best friend--will be her business consultant, the battle between her desires and reality begins. Ekon Diallo has lost everything: his princely title, his material possessions, his friends, and the respect of his fellow Ọlọrans. To pay for his actions against Ọlọrọ Ilé, he's forced to assist the charismatic Iris Blakely--but he can't allow his heart to distract him from regaining his status. Though they come from vastly different worlds, Iris and Ekon are both determined to reach their goals, and the only way to do that is to work together--if they can just keep their hearts from getting in the way . . . Like to listen on the go? You can find Because Fiction Podcast at: Apple Castbox Google Play Libsyn RSS Spotify Stitcher Amazon and more!
Join us as we talk all about quirky kids - what they are, what's great about them and how we can encourage them. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings: Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription LTWs Maren: This American Life Episode #783: Kids These Days Angela: I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy Connect with us! Visit our website Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren Email us any questions or feedback at firstname.lastname@example.org Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:10] Maren: hi, we're Maren and Angela of homeschool, unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters. Together with our master's degree and 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:31] Angela: At Homeschool, Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourselves credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to and elevating lgbtq plus and bipo voices. [00:00:50] Maren: We are here to encourage and support you whether you are a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at [00:01:00] home, or all your kids are in school, or somewhere in between. [00:01:03] Wherever you are on your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are [00:01:09] Angela: your. This is episode 1 99, Quirky Kids. We're gonna talk all about quirky kids and why that's a good thing and how to foster it, and then we are gonna end like we always do with our l t Ws Loving this week. [00:01:24] Maren: All right everyone. We wanted to give a big announcement. We have unlocked our Patreon class series, what we don't do, and we're so, so excited about it. So this is just for our Patreon Super Squad members. We do monthly live classes, and our new class series is called What We Don't Do The first class is sitting on for long for lessons and we just finished that class and it was really wonderful you, if you join our Patreon Super Squad today. [00:01:52] You're going to get that class immediately. It's available. It was live, and you'll get it immediately. And then you'll continue to get [00:02:00] li one live class per month. And the recording of that class? [00:02:04] Angela: Yes. And the next class after that is about winter break. Mm-hmm. between [00:02:10] Maren: everybody will be thinking of probably in December. Important? Yes, definitely. [00:02:14] If you've listened to our [00:02:15] Angela: podcast, you know, we are passionate about outsourcing. [00:02:18] In Homeschool Out school has been one of our favorite ways to outsource. We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. They create it. That's why Out School has reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their interests, connect with diverse peers from around the world, and take an active. [00:02:43] In leading their Learning Out school has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family, and join us as we set learning free. Sign up today at [00:03:00] Out Schooler dome slash homeschool unrefined, and get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with a code unrefined. [00:03:09] Maren: Angela and I both love creative ways to teach reading and writing, and that's why we're excited to introduce you to Night Zookeeper. Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with reading? If your answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may be just what you're looking for. [00:03:27] Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 that uses a gamified and creative approach. To keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same time. Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from real tutors, and the super safe community page where children can work with each other and learn together. [00:03:58] If Night Zookeeper sounds like the [00:04:00] perfect learning PR program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show. When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial as well as a huge 50% off annual subscription. That's a great deal if you ask me. [00:04:17] Angela: If you've been around a while, you know we are picky about curriculum and that's why we are excited to partner with Blossom and Rut. [00:04:24] Blossom and Rut is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing on creativity, science, nature, literature, and the arts. Blossom and Rut has been gently encouraging and supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom. And Rhett currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the. [00:04:46] Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is currently in development as of August, 2022. Volume one is available for purchase and volume two is available on presale All [00:05:00] profits from this history curriculum. A River of Voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. [00:05:07] You can find samples with scope and sequences and information about each of their levels online at Blossom and Rhett dot. You can also find them on Instagram at Blossom and Ru Blossom and Writ has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your purchase. [00:05:29] Maren: All right, Angela, let's dive into our main topic today, which is quirky kids. [00:05:34] Angela: Yeah. I'm excited to talk [00:05:35] Maren: about this. Very excited because I think, I think you and I agree, having quirky kids is one of the greatest. Things that could, I think, that could come out of homeschool. [00:05:46] Angela: What do you think? Yeah. Yes, for [00:05:48] Maren: sure. [00:05:48] We love having quirky kids. I think they're a gift to the world. And it feels, it feels like, you know, you are really getting authenticity for [00:06:00] sure when you, when you see the corino come out of kids. People in general, [00:06:05] Angela: for sure. Right. Yeah. Let's talk about what quirky kids are, because I feel like this is a word that maybe gets thrown out a lot and people have different definitions. [00:06:12] Right. But what we're talking about when we talk about quirky kids is kids who follow their interests Mm mm-hmm. and are confident in what they love. [00:06:21] Maren: Yeah. And they're really just, like you said, a confident and really just okay. Being themselves, like happy to be who they are. Mm-hmm. Accepting and accepting of other people too. [00:06:33] I think it, it just kind of goes along with that as well. [00:06:36] Angela: For sure. For sure. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And they're not much paying attention to, you know, the out necessarily what other people are saying. They've got the they've got the freedom to follow their interests because they're homeschooling and they've got the freedom to just be gen, just be genuine and authentically who they are. [00:06:57] Right? And I just think that is a real gift that [00:07:00] comes outta homeschooling. I mean, Obviously there are quirky cut kids who go to traditional school as well. Right. And I think that's great too. But I think in homeschool your, your quirkiness can really shine . I think it's safe in a way that it can't Yes. [00:07:15] In [00:07:16] Maren: public school. Yes. Yeah. It's safe at home. I mean, it's safe to do it. I think there is a little bit, it feels a little bit unsafe when you're around people who maybe aren't as accept. [00:07:27] Angela: Right. All those, or you're afraid might judge you for your union [00:07:31] Maren: interest. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And yeah, so we love that our kids show [00:07:37] Angela: their quirky side. [00:07:38] Maren: And it could be maybe they're like super interested in something that they, and [00:07:43] Angela: they're, they show it up to everyone or or they [00:07:46] Maren: just get into it or they just get into it. And I think it's just like an unapologetic love for whatever. Yeah. I think that's so great. And this can en encompass, I think, neuro divergent and neurotypical kids. [00:07:56] I think sometimes it, there's this label that it's a, [00:08:00] you know, maybe this, there's neuro divergence and I don't think that's always the case. I think a lot of times it's not. Yeah. [00:08:06] Angela: It can be, it, it is. I mean, I think a lot of neuro divergent kids are quirky for sure. But then so are a lot of neurotypical kids. [00:08:13] Absolutely. [00:08:14] Maren: Absolutely. Yeah. So we're talking about all [00:08:17] Angela: kids for sure. So why do you think Marron, that it's good? Mm-hmm. to have quirky kids, especially when they're [00:08:26] Maren: younger. Okay. Let's start with when they're younger because I , I think kids. Into the habit when they're younger, they get into the habit of being themselves. [00:08:35] Yes. It normalizes being unique. Mm-hmm. It celebrates being unique. Mm-hmm. . Being different and having different interests than your friends is the norm. It's just what? It's, it's life. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I think once you get into that habit, and that's your reality when you're a kid mm-hmm. then growing up, it [00:09:00] feels a little, it feels a little [00:09:02] Angela: off if it's [00:09:03] Maren: not like that. [00:09:04] And so I like that our kids grow up expecting that everybody's gonna be d. And you need, And I think it creates an acceptance of a variety, not just quirkiness, but I mean any kind of Yeah. Difference diversity. Mm-hmm. of any sort. Like there is just like this understanding that we are all different mm-hmm. [00:09:26] and we appreciate [00:09:28] Angela: differences. Yes. And I really like that. I love that too. I think I think it's joyful to see kids when they are young. Being an old, but we're talking about young kids. Yeah. Being into what they're really into. I mean, it is, I don't know. I mean, I know that I've seen my own kids and other kids. [00:09:47] Mm-hmm. excitedly. Tell me about the thing that they're into or excitedly tell whoever is willing to listen about the thing that they're into and that is So special at a young age and something that sometimes [00:10:00] gets squashed as kids get older. But you're right, if we can normalize it and expect it, Yeah. [00:10:07] Then if they aren't doing that, maybe it will feel off to them. [00:10:11] Maren: I also, I also think, yes, like you said, it's, it's brings this joy, it spreads this joy, and that is like this love. Learning. I would, I would call it learning. Mm-hmm. , it's living, you know? Yeah, yeah. And it's contagious, I think. I think it's contagious. [00:10:29] So when, when kids are cookie, they're just really in their zone or whatever, and they're spreading this joy, it's just that is priceless. And I don't know. Just having that experience is, is, is so powerful. It's so powerful. It's so good for us. It's good for us as adults to be influenced [00:10:46] Angela: by that . Oh yes, for sure. [00:10:49] Because that is Well, I'll just speak for myself. Mm-hmm. , I mean, that has been, you know, what's the word? Like Kind of drummed out of me as I [00:11:00] as I age. Right. Okay. Yeah. , Go ahead. I mean, so like, I mean, at least when I was a kid mm-hmm. , there were a few categories of things that were acceptable to be interested in or that were presented as possible interest, you know? [00:11:14] Right. Not that it was even acceptable or not, but that just like I knew about things I knew about that you could be interested in mm-hmm. . And so I don't know that I've really developed my quirkiness Yeah. Yeah. Until I've gotten older. Yep. Really. And like been okay. It's been okay with whatever it is. [00:11:32] Yep. And so true calling things weird or different or guilty pleasures or whatever, I don't know, but just like accepting of who, what things you're really into. Well, [00:11:44] Maren: I think there is a point too, even now, like we, we know this, we know being, you know, having this quirkiness is so good and you, and we love the uniqueness, but I think what even today, like there is a. [00:11:57] Quirkiness when kids are little. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . [00:12:00] And then at some point we [00:12:02] Angela: start to [00:12:04] Maren: not get excited about their quirkiness. Now we need to like, let's be done with all it in whatever, reign it in. And now you have to like kind of get in line a little bit. So why do you think it's, why, why is it good for older kids to also have [00:12:20] Angela: this quirkiness? [00:12:21] Well, okay, I'm, I think because then they are, First of all, being themselves. I mean, that is so important that everybody feels comfort, comfortable being themselves, right? Yes. Liking what you like, liking, knowing what you're interested in. Mm-hmm. , I think just knowing the things that are exciting to you. [00:12:40] Mm-hmm. knowing that when you're older, like let's say a teen I think is priceless. I think that's priceless. Because otherwise, You know, I just think it makes you more confident. I think it makes you know more about, and I hate to always make this the end goal, but like, what you [00:13:00] wanna do in the future. [00:13:00] Mm-hmm. . And that's not the end goal, but you know, like yeah. What kind of job might be interesting to you? I think it's, it's easier. What kind of things do I wanna study? Do I wanna take classes about a certain thing? You know? I think it's easier. Be confident and know what those things are. Yes. [00:13:17] Instead of being more lost. [00:13:19] Maren: Well, I wouldn't even say it, Angela. I don't think it's necessarily an end goal. I think what you're saying is just like we do spend a lot of time at our jobs , you know, when we're an adult. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and it would be great to hone in on something that you. You know, is, is really in line with your values and your interests and your skills and, and your experiences and things like that. [00:13:42] And it, it might not be permanent. You know, we know, we know that many people switch jobs [00:13:48] Angela: and careers throughout their, their lives. [00:13:50] Maren: So it's not necessarily [00:13:51] an [00:13:51] Angela: ending, but it is, like, there are, [00:13:53] Maren: you know, there's a, certainly a commitment level, you know, to jobs. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So I think it's, we know, we [00:14:00] know how much, you know, our jobs. [00:14:03] Have influenced us and, you know, affected us. And so it's so good to know to even get close closer Yeah. To something that you, you wanna do. Ah, it's so good. So just to, to have that self knowledge and awareness is so, so [00:14:20] Angela: key, right? Mm-hmm. . And I think, I think what I meant by. Not making it the end. Mm. It's just that like, I know so many adult, well mean well meaning adults. [00:14:32] Mm-hmm. , you know, put pressure on kids from the time that they're little Yes. To, and asking them like, What do you wanna do when you grow up like this? [00:14:40] Maren: What do you wanna do with your life? Yeah. You know? Yeah. From kindergarten. Yes. What's, what do you wanna do? A job. [00:14:46] Angela: Yeah. Right. It's a lot. So so I guess that's what I meant. [00:14:49] Yes. But you're right. I know. It is, it is important because your job is a lot of your life when you're older. So, [00:14:56] Maren: I mean, and, and when you are, when you're a teen, you [00:15:00] really are thinking about that. You know, it's not like Yeah. Not like a, you know, a far off thing, like from when you are in preschooler mm-hmm. [00:15:07] it's like, no, I mean, this isn't a. I gotta think about this. Yeah. I should, I should be thinking and planning. Right? But I also think it affects your whole life in that way too. It's like you get to kind of curate this life that works best for you too. It's not even just doing what you like, but like having the habits that work best for the way your brain works. [00:15:28] It's all so good, and [00:15:30] Angela: I think that knowing the way that you learn, knowing the way [00:15:32] Maren: that you learn, knowing the way you, that you organize, knowing the way that you know, you need to set up your, I don't know, set up your kitchen . They're just, or just set up your life. Set up your life friends. These are the type of friends that you know, help me thrive in my life. [00:15:49] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . These are some of the things that I just, you know, need to have in place. Those are all things that like, I think help when you are fostering this, you know, quirkiness in your kids. [00:15:59] Angela: For sure. [00:16:00] For sure. Yeah. I also think definitely. You know, in the teen years. Mm-hmm. friends are important. [00:16:06] Peers are important, Yes. And I just think if, if your child is comfortable with themselves and with their unique interests and who they are, I think that has such a positive effect on the other kids around them. Absolutely. Do you see somebody being themselves? It is so inspiring. Yeah. It's, to me for sure, like I see somebody into something cool that I hadn't, you know, Thought about before or just being unapologetically themselves. [00:16:36] Yeah. I feel so inspired to do that myself. Yes, yes, yes. So I think that's really, really key. And to find friends [00:16:45] Maren: who accept, accept each other for their quirkiness. . Right. That is, that's so, that's so key too. And that like, kind of goes back that we talked about how important it is, you know, it's how great it is that our kids are, you know, so unique and quirky when they're young, [00:17:00] so that when they're older they're like, Hey, like if there is a friendship that's happening and there isn't that acceptance or something's off, then they feel that they're like, This doesn't feel right because mm-hmm. [00:17:09] I'm just, you know, I am, I am this person. If you don't like it, then that's, there's something. You're not accepting about me or whatever. And there can be dialogue about that, but it's good to understand. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. [00:17:21] Angela: So, So, okay. How do you think we should foster quirkiness in kids? [00:17:26] That's a big question. [00:17:28] Yeah. I wanna say, first off, I think if you're homeschooling, if you're listening to this and you're homeschooling, I think you're already probably doing it. You know, I mean, I think homeschooling in and of itself is helpful in that way because everything is kind of personalized already, probably are you know, gearing things towards their interests. [00:17:46] They probably have time to their interest. , they have time for the things that they're interested in. Yep. And so I think you're probably already doing it. [00:17:54] Maren: Yes. Yes. That is so true. Yeah. I was just gonna say, I think that was like, I think that's the [00:18:00] biggest thing that contributed, you know, for my kids is just time to be themselves. [00:18:07] Time to play they way, the way they wanted to play and just [00:18:11] Angela: grow [00:18:12] Maren: their pretend world. You know, and, and without without constraint. [00:18:19] Angela: for so long, I hadn't thought about that, but time. Mm-hmm. , you're right, because kids when they're in school are so busy. They are so busy with school, you know, during the day and homework and then fitting in other activities. [00:18:33] That, and family time and sleep and homework. Yes. It's just, it's hard to really develop your interests. When you're [00:18:40] Maren: in school and it's, Yes. And it's not just a practical thing. It's not, It's not just the time, but it, the time is communicating, I think, to the kids. Mm-hmm. , the most important thing for you to do is to do the things that the adults are telling you to do all day long, you know, or whatever. [00:18:57] Mm-hmm. , that's the important thing. [00:19:00] Prioritize that. Yeah. Don't prioritize your own interests and who you are as a person. Mm-hmm. . And I think that that is a mistake. Yeah. We need to communicate with our time. Mm-hmm. our priorities. [00:19:14] Angela: Yes. And [00:19:15] Maren: so for our, you know, our priorities, for me, my priorities for our kids was to be themselves, be creative. [00:19:24] Mm-hmm. , love learning. Mm-hmm. , enjoy the way they love learning, and be curious and just go down rabbit holes. And they did that. They did that. Yeah. And it was so good. I will say when my kids were younger and they were doing that, I, of course, You know, a wrestling match in my head every day. Like, Oh my gosh, we're not getting to all these other things. [00:19:47] Angela: Yeah, we should be doing math, we should be doing reading or whatever. [00:19:50] Maren: Yes, we try every single day. Yeah, every single day. I remember honestly like standing in the middle of my living room looking around at just the [00:20:00] chaos or around me going, I'm never gonna be able to wrangle this in. Yeah. But, and, and then also thinking like, why do I think I need to. [00:20:09] And so I don't know. [00:20:10] Angela: Now looking at wrestling, is that lately mm-hmm. , right? [00:20:13] Maren: Yes. And so looking back, I'm just so glad that a lot of the time I open the space up for that Right. Space and time for that. Right, [00:20:20] Angela: Right. So it's mostly encouraging those things that they're interested in instead of mm-hmm. [00:20:26] You know, diminishing them or whatever. Yes. Instead of suggesting other things, instead of prioritizing other things. Really encouraging those things that they're interested in. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , whatever [00:20:35] Maren: that is. Yep. And then the other thing I think that's really important is to just own our own quirkiness. [00:20:41] Like you said, Angela, you're learning about your own quirkiness right now. And, and like, Kind of growing into that, and I think that that's so good for our kids to see too. It [00:20:51] Angela: is definitely [00:20:52] Maren: a unique set of interests and [00:20:54] Angela: skills too. Right? And sharing that with your kids and sharing your own journey [00:21:00] in that way. [00:21:00] Yes. And yeah, I think is really, really important because, you know, most things are about modeling and I mm-hmm. , I, mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. It is, like I said, because I'm kind of, I feel like late to the game in this way. Mm-hmm. , I mean, I've definitely always had interest, but you know, some things I felt embarrassed about or Mm. [00:21:19] Kind of squashed, or like, I don't, actually, mostly it was like, I didn't feel like I had a wide variety of things to pick from for interest. It's like, well, do you wanna do a sport or music or both . Right, right, right. [00:21:32] Maren: You know? And there was a limited amount of music amount of those. Of both. Yeah. Yeah. So it was either, Volleyball, basketball or stop Yeah. [00:21:41] For me, you know which of those three. [00:21:44] Angela: Yeah. Yeah. So I think learning about the, the world and just like how many options there are and like testing things out and I just, for me, that's like a lifelong practice and yes, [00:22:00] the sooner my kids can get started on. And finding their own joys, I just think the better off they're gonna be. [00:22:06] And so I really do want to encourage and model that for them. For [00:22:11] Maren: sure. And even if, even if our kids do choose a very maybe traditional career, I think that's great. Yeah. And they can have. They will, I think, value interests outside of their job too, which is just so healthy and you know, having a way to, to balance [00:22:30] Angela: your life out. [00:22:31] Having a full life that's having a full life more than just your job, but you also have other [00:22:35] Maren: Yes, exactly. Yeah, and you're right, like you said, example is so powerful just mm-hmm. . Watching your parents have those quirky interests is probably more powerful than anything else. Anything else, Right? For sure. [00:22:50] What's your quirky thing? I don't know. I mean I, I'm, I'm kind of figuring that myself out too. I mean, I have a lot of, I have a lot of interests, you know, I love doing. A lot of [00:23:00] different things, but like recently, like I think I, I think I talked about this on Patreon, maybe not on the main podcast, but in our Facebook, you know, by nothing group, we, Oh, there was a free. [00:23:12] Organ. Yeah. Somebody was giving away a free organ and I took it . Yeah. Right away. That's quirky. It's amazing. That is [00:23:20] Angela: quirky. I didn't think [00:23:21] Maren: about it at the time, but I was like, Oh, that was okay. I look back and I'm like, Yeah, that was pretty quirky. That's yeah, so, because I love, I love the [00:23:30] Angela: organ . Have you been playing it? [00:23:33] A little bit. A little bit, Yeah. [00:23:34] Maren: And we're, you know, the kids are enjoying it a lot for sure. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. [00:23:39] Angela: All right, let's move on to our lt. Ws Loving this week, right? Yes. Yeah. Mar, what are you loving? [00:23:45] Maren: Okay. I am loving it's a podcast that I listen to all the time, this American Life. Oh, yeah. Which I know I, I talk about, I've, I've shared several episodes with you, Angela, lately, but this last [00:23:57] Angela: one. [00:23:58] Okay, [00:23:58] Maren: let's hear. Everybody needs to [00:24:00] listen. It's number 783 Kids these days. Is what it's called. Oh, okay. And the description says, we hear from kids who are dealing with some of the country's most contentious debates. Oh. No debates that are supposedly about them. Mm. So it's just these kids who are caught in, you know, adult turmoil. [00:24:24] For sure. Yeah. Basically. And I am, I mean, I know you all probably. You know, if you're listening to this podcast you know, have a heart for kids and are thinking about just the things that kids are dealing with these days, and this is these are just personal stories about those things and Okay, [00:24:41] Angela: everybody needs to listen to it. [00:24:43] Okay. I would, I would love to listen to that. I'm gonna put that on my list in my queue. I'm gonna put it in my queue. Yep. Put it in your queue. Will appreciate it. Definitely. Okay. Thank you. Right. This American Life has been around for years before they had podcast apps and that's why they're on episode like 700 and something. [00:24:59] That's [00:25:00] right's. It is like the first podcast. Yeah. Yeah. That's really well done. [00:25:03] Maren: So it's really well done and I think it's becoming a much more inclusive podcast, like the stories that they're sharing. Okay. I'm just really appreciating them. Noticing it more and more. Yeah. Yes. From the lens of many, many different people in the world. [00:25:18] I'm right [00:25:19] Angela: in America, . That's great. That's great. All right, Angela, what are you loving this week? Okay. I am loving a book that this could be the book, like if you are in a slump, if you don't know if you like audio books. Okay. Or, you know, you've never tried or wonder if you could get hooked. I think this could be your book. [00:25:41] It's called, I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCarty. Okay. Yes, I've heard of this book. We've heard of this book. Yes. Okay, so this is a memoir. But it's very it'll take you in right away. So Jeanette McCarty is a young actress. She's probably 30 now. Okay. [00:26:00] She was on I, Carly. Oh yes. A Nickelodeon. As a young, as a young child. Mm-hmm. . And this is just her life story, which is pretty traumatic. You know, she didn't want to go into acting, but her mom wanted her to, cuz it was her mom's dream that her mom. [00:26:19] Got fulfilled for herself. Mm-hmm. . So her mom put, you know, pushed her into acting and Jeanette wanted to please her mother because she loves her mother. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . it is about that relationship and it is about her, you know, life in the spotlight and with her mother. and with her brothers and her mom is sick the whole time. [00:26:40] Mm-hmm. , I mean, it's in the title. I'm glad my mom died, so, you know, her mom dies, but no, spoil mom was sick. Yeah, no spoiler. Her mom is sick, you know, for much of her childhood. Mm. And so there's always kind of the threat of like, is her mom gonna die? And so she wants to really please her mom. So anyways, it is so well written. [00:26:59] Wow. [00:27:00] It is so well written. The audio is amazing. She reads it. By the, the first sentence, , you know, for the first story I was hooked. I was like, I need listening to this. So I think, you know, as a parent too mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It definitely It's just a, it's just a cautious, a cautionary tale, you know? [00:27:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a cautionary tale as a parent. Mm-hmm. , not that I'm like her mom, but you know, I just recognize just some behaviors or practices and I, I like, I, you know, am constantly thinking like, Oh, I do not wanna do that, or I would never wanna say that, or, or whatever. So, I don't know. I just think as a parent, it was really, It was important as a child that was imp It was important. [00:27:40] It's important for everybody. So yes, really well done. [00:27:43] Maren: Okay, [00:27:44] Angela: So you should listen, I think you should just get it on Libro fm, which I talked about a few weeks ago. Yes, it's a, or the library. Get it on your library, but listen on audio for sure. [00:27:56] Maren: All right. Thank you Angela. And thank you to our three [00:28:00] sponsors, Blossom and Root Out School and Night Zookeeper. [00:28:04] Be sure to check out their links in our show notes. [00:28:08] Angela: This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Marron Gors. We are listener supported. To get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your membership, go to patreon.com/homeschool unrefined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive email@example.com slash newsletter. [00:28:29] You can find on Instagram at unrefined and at always learning with you can find Angela. Unrefined, Angela. [00:29:00]
My guest Brent Eastman is the owner and CEO of BEI, Brent Eastman Insurance Services, the largest employee benefit brokerage firms in the Central Coast area. BEI currently manages over $26 million in annual employee benefit program expenditures. My conversation with Brent highlights the power of human relationships in sales and growth. We talk about building communities, increasing access to the best possible care and bringing back empathy in healthcare. Also learn what the Latin word, labor omnia vincit" means and why is it relevant . Brent Eastman Insurance Services website - https://brenteastman.com/This episode is sponsored by UnitedAg, one of the largest association health plans to offer healthcare to the agriculture industry of California and Arizona. Kirti Mutatkar, President and CEO of UnitedAg. Reach me firstname.lastname@example.org, www.linkedin.com/in/kirtimutatkarUnitedAg's website - www.unitedag.org
In this episode of the Legal Marketing 2.0 Podcast, Guy is joined by Iris Jones, Akerman's Chief Marketing and Client Development Officer. Iris oversees the firm's client development team to advance the overall strategic plan of the firm by continuing to grow the firm's client base while deepening existing client relationships. She works closely with firm leadership to build the firm's brand equity and position the firm as an influential thought leader and the law firm of choice for diverse clients in the firm's key practice areas. She was inducted into the Legal Marketing Association Hall of Fame earlier this year!
Today's thoughts become tomorrow's reality. And when you write down those thoughts, it's a lightspeed jump into your better future. The lovely and super authentic Tara Horstmeyer joins me to talk about life-career seasons, LinkedIn mastery, and the power of “ghostwriting your own life.” Enjoy!
After hosting and listening to over 24 episodes on empathy, are you more empathetic? Join us as we reflect on how our conversations with all types of people has shaped how we think about empathy. Are we better at channeling our empathy? Are we better communicators? How do we look at the world differently? How has this podcast impacted you? Let us know! Also stay tuned towards the end of the episode where we share more about the behind scenes experience of starting a podcast and what's next for Katie, Shyanne and Amanda --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ew49/message
This week, Julie Bogart is back to talk all about changing our minds in parenting and homeschooling. Fall 2022 Season Sponsors We are so grateful to our Fall 2022 Season Sponsors. Use the links below for their special offerings: Blossom & Root and use code HSUnrefined15 for 15% off your purchase Outschool and use code Unrefined for $20 off your first class Night Zookeeper for a 7-day, risk-free trial, as well as 50% off an annual subscription LTWs Maren: Good Inside by Dr Becky Kennedy Angela: Calm Aid Connect with us! Visit our website Sign up for our newsletter and get our Top 100 Inclusive Book List We are listener supported! Support us on Patreon Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and see video episodes now on Youtube Angela on Instagram: @unrefinedangela | Maren on Instagram: @unrefinedmaren and @alwayslearningwithmaren Email us any questions or feedback at email@example.com Complete Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Angela: hi, we are Maren and Angela of Homeschool, Unrefined. Over the past 25 years, we've been friends, teachers, homeschool parents and podcasters. Together with our master's degrees and 20 years combined homeschooling. We are here to rethink homeschooling, learning, and education with an inclusive and authentic lens. [00:00:29] Maren: At Homeschool, Unrefined, we prioritize things like giving yourself credit, building strong connections, respectful parenting, interest led playing and learning, learning differences, mental health, self care, and listening to an EL elevating LGBTQ plus and bipo voices. [00:00:48] Angela: We are here to encourage and support you. [00:00:50] Whether you are a new homeschooler, a veteran, you love curriculum, you're an unschooler. Whether all your kids are at home or all your kids are at school or somewhere in [00:01:00] between. Wherever you are in your journey, we're the voice in your head telling you, you're doing great, and so are your kids. [00:01:07] Maren: This is episode 1 98, Changing Our Minds with Julie Bogart. [00:01:14] We had such a good conversation and we're so excited to share this with you, and then we are going to end like we always do with our l t Ws Loving this week. [00:01:26] Angela: Before we get going, we did wanna let you know about our Patreon classes. We are starting a new series. on Thursday and it's our what We don't do series. Mm-hmm. , if you have been around a while, you probably have listened to one of our, What we don't do messages, we're turning them into a class and we're gonna talk about what we don't do as a, in a class format. [00:01:48] And that is gonna be Thur this Thursday at one o'clock central time. And if you are interested in that, you can join us on, on Patreon for our super squad. That's the $10 level. We [00:02:00] will have links in the show notes for you there, but we'd love to see you if you can't come live. You can get it recorded and video and audio. [00:02:07] We will be putting those out and then, The day or two after that. [00:02:11] Maren: Absolutely. And you know, we are passionate [00:02:13] Angela: about what we don't do. we are and spreading one of our favorite things. . It's important. It is. Mar and I both love new and innovative ways to make reading and writing fun. That's why we hope you've tried Night Zookeeper. [00:02:28] Is your child a reluctant writer? Do they struggle with. If the answer to either of these questions is yes, the Night Zookeeper may just be what you've been looking for. Night Zookeeper is an online learning program for children, ages six to 12 years old that uses a gamified and creative approach to help keep kids engaged and focused on developing awesome reading and writing skills, all while having fun at the same time. [00:02:51] Some of the features we love include the educational games, the personalized feedback on writing from Real tutors, the Super Safe Community pages where [00:03:00] children can work with each other and learn together. If night Zookeeper sounds like the perfect learning program for your child, you can try it for free by clicking on the link in the show notes. [00:03:09] When you register, you'll get a seven day risk free trial, as well as a huge 50% off annual subscription. That's a great deal if you ask. When it comes [00:03:20] Maren: time to decide on whether or not to use a curriculum, we think you should check out Blossom and Root. Blossom and Root is a nature focused secular homeschool curriculum focusing, focusing on creativity, science, nature. [00:03:35] Literature and the arts. Blossom and Root has been gently encouraging in supporting homeschool families around the globe since 2016. Blossom and Root currently offers curricula for pre-K through fifth grade with new levels being added in the future. Additionally, a three volume inclusive US history curriculum told from a variety of viewpoints is [00:04:00] currently in development as of August, 2022. [00:04:03] Volume one is available for purchase and volume two is available on presale. All profits from this history curriculum. A River of voices will be used to support storytellers and artists from historically excluded communities. You can find samples, scope, and sequences and information about each of their levels online at www.blossomandroute.com. [00:04:29] You can also find them on, I. [00:04:31] Angela: At Blossom and Root, [00:04:33] Maren: Blossom and Root has created a special discount for our listeners. Use the code Hs. Unrefined 15 at checkout for 15% off your [00:04:43] Angela: purchase. Over the years, our kids have taken many out school courses that they have loved. Have you given out school a try? We know that kids who love to learn don't just prepare for the future. [00:04:56] They create it. That's why Out School has [00:05:00] reimagined online learning to empower kids and teens to expand their creativity, wonder and knowledge. Empathetic, passionate teachers encourage learners ages three to 18 to explore their in. Connect with diverse peers from around the world and take an active role in leading their learning out. [00:05:16] School has created a world filled with endless possibilities for every schooling journey. Explore over 140,000 fun and flexible live online classes to find the right fit for your family. And join us as we set learning free. Sign up today at Out schooler.me/homeschool unrefined. And get up to $20 off your first class when you enroll with a code Unre. [00:05:42] Maren: All right. We are so excited to introduce you. [00:05:46] If you don't know Julie Bogart Bogart yet, here she is. Julie Bogart is the creator and owner of Brave Writer, the online writing and language arts program for kids and teens. She's written two books, The [00:06:00] Brave Learner and Most Recently Raising Critical Thinkers, Julie Holy Supports Homeschool Parents Through Her Social Media Channels. [00:06:08] Her podcast, her books and her community. We have always absolutely loved talking to Julie and we're just so glad that she is back. Enjoy this conversation. [00:06:20] Thank you so much, Julie, for joining us again on our podcast. We've had you on a few times and we love having you every single [00:06:27] Julie: time. Well, the feeling is mutual. Mar, I love being here. [00:06:31] Maren: Thank you so much. Okay. So I really wanna talk about your book that actually came out quite a while ago, but you and I have both been so busy that we haven. [00:06:41] Able to make time to talk about it, but I'm so excited to talk about your book Raising Critical Thinkers. And we talked a little bit about it maybe on your podcast last time. Yes, yes, Yep. But I just, this was before, I think we read your book though. You were still writing it and we've now since read it and love it. [00:06:59] And I'm just [00:07:00] wondering what made you wanna write this book right [00:07:03] Julie: now? Specif. Yeah, that's such a fun question for me to answer because you have to go all the way back to the 1990s to answer this question. Mm, okay. Yeah. It really started with the dawn of the internet . So in like 19 95, 96, when the worldwide web was crawling out into the space, homeschool parents in particular were. [00:07:25] We're like the first people to barge through those doors. We were so isolated. Yeah. , there were about 800, right? There were about 800 Absolutely. Thousand families who homeschooled back then in the United States today there's 3.2 million, so that's, That's amazing. A sizeable growth. And we did not have a means. [00:07:41] Of connecting except in local communities. Mm-hmm. . And so you can imagine the numbers were small. You know, you might, in your community have five or 10 people you know who homeschooled. Right. Some people had no one. So we all hopped online. Yep. In these couple of major sort of homeschool watering holes. [00:07:58] And to be fair to [00:08:00] the movement, the truth of the movement at that point is that it was. Yeah, we were white. Yep. Mostly conservative. Politically and religiously. Yep. And heterosexual and married. Right. So that was the demographic, like 98%, 99%. So I imagined we would get on these discussion boards and we would really like each other. [00:08:21] You know, I, I had been to park days. People are friendly, you know, occasionally they mention your child misbehaved, but nobody's getting into big fights about politics at a park day. Sure. And yet I get on these discussion boards and while there's plenty of friendliness, plenty of good advice. Mm-hmm. , there was also a shocking willingness. [00:08:43] Mm-hmm. to really go to battle. Mm-hmm. over things like oxy Clean, whether or not to breastfeed, Oh no. Whether or not you should potty train your child by age two. And that's the tip of the iceberg. When we got, When we got near [00:09:00] religious discussion, like doctrinal issues or theology, the gloves came off. [00:09:05] Wow. People [00:09:06] Maren: get really brave, don't they, on [00:09:07] Julie: those sites? Oh my gosh. And this is before we knew about trolls, so I jokingly say homeschoolers and bena trolling. We used to call it flaming, but it was really just a lot of fighting. And so here's the question that sort of grew inside me at that. . Why does everyone think they're right? [00:09:26] Mm. And why do they assume that all they have to do is state their belief and everyone will agree with it. So there was very little curiosity. It wasn't like, Wow, you're a five point Calvinist. I'm only a three point. I wonder why that is. . No, that is not what happened. It would be things like, you know, Julie, I just think you're wrong here. [00:09:46] The actual true theology is X. Mm-hmm. . And so for me, at the time when I was expecting sort of this homogeneous. Kumbaya experience. It was not that. And in fact, I was [00:10:00] so intrigued by this problem. I started my own discussion board. We called it at the time the Trap Door Society. And the reason it had that name Yeah. [00:10:10] Was that I felt like all these women were performing roles on a stage, you know, parent, wife, educator, spiritual or non-spiritual person, whatever you were. And we had no way of. To nurture the individual person that we were. So I wanted a trap door so we could go beneath the stage and like try on different costumes. [00:10:33] Imagine other points of view, read books that were for our pleasure, not for our children. That's amazing. Yeah. And it was, it was amazing. It was. So that was the. [00:10:44] Maren: You created that safety. That's that's what it sounds like to me when you're talking about that trap door. That's a place of safety where you can try things on without getting completely reprimanded. [00:10:57] Well, [00:10:57] Julie: that was the goal. Yeah. It did [00:11:00] not go that way. Oh, [00:11:01] Maren: okay. [00:11:01] Julie: So I started this community. Mm-hmm. . There was a lot of love. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And there were some, I mean, phenomenal discussions that were life changing for me. I will say that right out of the gate, my parenting, my home education, my outlook on the world was shaped profoundly by that community. [00:11:17] But there was also some battles that literally took me out, like days of crying obsessing over responding, trying to craft the perfect words so no one would be mad and still, Oh, I feel that lacking anger. Early days of the internet. Mm-hmm. the early two thousands. And so that persistent experience of why does everyone think they're right? [00:11:43] Right. Stayed with me. And it got me curious about how we form our thoughts. Why we think, how we do, what we believe about other people who think differently. And I, I just got on this serious mission. I've been studying, thinking for over 20 years. I've been so [00:12:00] fascinated by it. I even went to grad school to try. [00:12:02] Understand how we all think so differently. So yeah, that's really what led me to it. So ironically, it came out during the Covid period, , which is a, an important time to think critically. Oh my gosh. It's almost like, you know, we hit the Zer of trolling and flaming and everything else. [00:12:22] Maren: And it continues. And it continues. [00:12:24] Like for sure we need to, we need this skill. So what is your definition of critical thinking? Why do you think, Well, I mean, we already talked about why we think it's important, but if you have any other thoughts about that, but just what is it to you? What [00:12:37] Julie: does it look like? Yeah. Critical thinking for me starts in an unusual place. [00:12:41] Like if you go into the education world and they talk about critical thinking, it's always about analyzing something over. , like a piece of literature, a scientific discovery, a mathematical problem. Yes. But I think critical thinking starts closer to home. [00:13:00] It's self-awareness. It's the capacity to notice your own bias as it kicks into gear, right? [00:13:06] To pay attention to what triggers you to be curious, for instance, about why you think you're right. Yes. And it's doing all that before we extend a similar. Attitude, I guess I would say. Yep. To someone else. So if I know that I have these inherent triggers, biases and proclivities, right? That's also true of the person I'm chatting with. [00:13:30] Mm-hmm. , the cuter. And my job is to at least get to a place of understanding how the jigsaw puzzle of their experiences, education, thoughts, socioeconomics, and identity created safety right for them through this. Because that's what our beliefs are. They are a safety protective shield that keeps who I am free of anyone harming me. [00:13:58] Maren: It sounds to me like you're [00:14:00] talking about self-awareness as being one huge key. Totally of critical thinking it is. And then being aware that this other person is also has this other set of aware, you know, self awareness and maybe not, may not be as aware about those is of those things. And then, oh, it's just the, a higher level thinking here. [00:14:21] You know, I just think when you get in those situations and the. The ability to understand yourself, understand this other person and how you work together, and how it, how it's okay that they're thinking differently and it's okay that I'm thinking differently and we can work together in this way. I mean, it's just. [00:14:38] This is what's so needed in our world today. Can you imagine if E the most powerful people in the world, can't even do this, Julie? No. No. Can you train them ? [00:14:52] Julie: Well, the problem, the problem I really think comes down to the fact that. There are dangerous [00:15:00] thoughts. Mm-hmm. thought worlds that exist, but the criteria for danger varies community by community. [00:15:06] Mm-hmm. , person by person. So a lot of times when I've done these interviews, people have said, So you're really focused on critical thinking, leading to empathy. And my rejoinder is actually, no, this book isn't about empathy. You may gain some empathy. Sure. Come to a place where you look at your child, for instance, and have more insight into why they hold a view, and it creates a feeling of warmth or compassion towards your child. [00:15:31] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But mostly it's about understanding because for instance, we love true crime, right? We're all listening to podcasts. We all do movies, and we are doing it because we are fascinated to understand. Why a person imagines that the best solution to a problem in their life is murder. We're not and and we want to understand it. [00:15:56] That's why we watch. Right. We don't just judge it. We're like, [00:16:00] Well, what factors led that person to thinking, I will have a more beautiful life if I off this other person. What we end up feeling at the end is horror, not empathy. Right. Right. It actually engages our deep morality. We. Wow, these factors are problematic. [00:16:19] This person saw the world in a way that is so different than mine. And then it leads us to ask what I think is a very important question, What is it about that person's perspective that we haven't accounted for? Mm-hmm. in the public square. Yep. So if we think about someone like, you know, just to go for the extreme Hitler and go for it. [00:16:40] Yep. Right. What we have, were an entire population. Of German Christian, middle class churchgoing people. Mm-hmm. becoming persuaded that the solution to their economic crisis was genocide. Yeah. And the question we [00:17:00] have to ask ourself is how did that happen? How did that happen? Yep. Because they were persuaded. [00:17:08] There was a structure and a belief system that they were able to inc. That made them think they were on the moral high ground. And so for me, critical thinking is all of that. It's not just empathy, it's accounting for those factors that may possibly lead us into very immoral and scary thought worlds. [00:17:31] But we do it from a place of. Actual desire for a better world. Right. We're not doing it because we're inherently evil. We're doing it because we think life will be better for us and our people. [00:17:43] Maren: Right, Right, right. And that's why we need to think critically about our history. That's right. So that we can change it. [00:17:50] does not repeat itself. True. Yep. So true. One of our favorite chapters in your book is probably the last chapter, The Courage to Change Your [00:18:00] Mind. We love this idea. We talk about it a lot as parents. So just sitting with that for a minute, changing your mind. Why do you think that changing your mind is important? [00:18:10] Julie: Well, first of all, the capacity to change your mind shows a certain agility in your own ability to process information. So psychological research shows that psychological flexibility is a key component to a healthy ego. Mm-hmm. and healthy relationships. So if we are hardened or rigid, we actually start to eliminate the capacity to relate to a variety of people, right? [00:18:39] Then what we do is we start shrinking the group until we're in a very small corner of the world, well defended against all the attackers. We become victims, right? Of our own ideology. Mm-hmm. . So the courage to change your mind says, I'm actually related to all of humanity. There isn't [00:19:00] the in group, in the out group. [00:19:01] I'm here to hear experiences, data, research, information that is not like the kind I have and understand how it's shaped these people that I am connected to simply by being a human being. I don't think we think that way very often, but one thing I have not, Is that parents are the most likely to change their spiritual, political, social value beliefs when a child. [00:19:32] Tax them. So you have a child? Oh yes. That's me. Example. Right? Totally, totally. All that story, because I think it's so powerful. Well, there are, [00:19:40] Maren: there are actually, I mean, there's a lot of things I can't even share right now until my kids are grow, grown up. Yes. Until they've given me permission. But I mean, definitely politically, spiritually so many things. [00:19:51] I actually, I wrote down a few things, things that I've changed my mind on as a parent recently, probably hair color. Tattoos [00:20:00] piercings. Not that I'm letting my kids pierce their or get tattoos, but , like, I've changed my mind on it because just talking about it ha has created this big rift and I'm like, I, Why am I so against the, I mean, why am I so I against this? [00:20:18] I do not know. I honestly don't know anymore . So I had to rethink that. Food choices, TV and movie choices, clothing. What body parts can be shown and not shown. You know, these are things and ultimately school choice. Yes, school education choices. Because, you know, if it were up to me, we'd probably, you know, be doing something very different school-wise right now. [00:20:41] And I'm listening to my kids and they're telling me what they need and I'm like, Wait a second. I you. For a while I was like, No kids, we're doing school this way. This is what I see as the best way . And they're like, Mom, listen to us. We're telling you what we need right now. And I'm, and I had to really [00:21:00] go inside myself and evaluate like, why am I, why are my ideals the boss of. [00:21:08] Their education right now, it's their lives ultimately. And I can, That's right. Yeah. So I can make, Obviously I wanna make safe and good, you know, good choices for them. But there are lots of safe and good choices. I [00:21:22] Julie: think so. No, that is so beautifully expressed. Mm-hmm. . Because part of what happens is we've already lived through those ages. [00:21:31] We were teenagers and young adults. We have regrets, choices we made that we think, Wow, that was a bad decision. Or I wish my mother had stopped me from doing X. Right. And so we come in with this perspective that somehow we can protect our children from right. Regret, mistakes, getting in car accidents, whatever it is. [00:21:49] Mm-hmm. . And yet it is those very experiences that formed and shaped us into the adults we are today. Right. And when we don't give our children the [00:22:00] agency over their choices to some extent, obviously you have some, some room there, but to some extent, Then they feel the need to react that much harder. Yes. [00:22:11] Because they are testing, not you, but the world outside of your home to find out, am I qualified to be admitted as an adult? Yes. And if they don't have the opportunity to make some of those calls and fail. They will not discover what resources they need. I, I did a podcast interview recently with a mom who was raised in the obedience model as a child. [00:22:36] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And she told me she got to young adulthood and thought, But how can I know if I'm making a good decision, where's the authority that's gonna tell me I'm doing the thing? Yep. And so our kids need the, the right. I remember Johanna, she had red. She decided to die purple and the culture, not me. [00:22:57] I was like, That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. , the culture told her, [00:23:00] if you're a redhead, you're not allowed to dye your hair because your hair is too beautiful. You're not allowed to get rid of red hair. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember supporting her and saying, You know, it's your hair. Pick a color. So she went in to get it dye, and even the hair stylist was like, Are you sure? [00:23:18] Yeah. And so the hair stylist refused to bleach the hair. She's like, We'll just put purple on top of it. And it came out black. Okay. No. So she didn't end up with her purple hair. She had red hair and black hair, and then she decided to go full goth to support the black hair, you know, early two thousands, [00:23:36] And I look back on that and I think what an interesting moment for her. Yeah. To assert a desire and have the whole culture oppose her and to keep fighting for it anyway. Like this is what we want. How will they build their self confide? If they never have a chance to encounter opposition, to stand up for what they want, [00:24:00] to find out if it matches what their hopes and dreams were. [00:24:03] They need some of those chances, don't they? [00:24:05] Maren: They absolutely do, and I think our traditional educational system is teaching our kids to obey, yes, meet the standards, do the thing, and perform and not really think critically about themselves. They, it might be thinking critically. One small topic here, one small topic here, but it's not this all-encompassing critical thinker that, that we're raising, you know, in our education system. [00:24:32] And it's, it's tough because then they go to co, they go to college and, and you know, they might not. Go find the resources they need to do well in college because they haven't been taught to be proactive about those things or to figure out what they need or even to find their passion to find the thing they love to do in the world because they've just learned to go through the hoops. [00:24:53] Go through the hoops, do it, get a job, make [00:24:56] Julie: money, , a hundred percent. In fact, when I taught at Xavier [00:25:00] University, one of the most glar. and obvious lacks in the incoming freshman was a sense of agency about their own thoughts. Mm, mm-hmm. . So they came in having been trained to write essays and how to even do research online or use the, you know, the library correctly. [00:25:18] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But they were always trying to find out, but what did I really wanna hear from them? Yeah. What was the angle I hope they would take? And so we. All kinds of writing activities and writing on the board and small group sharing because my goal, Was to hear something genuine from each student. [00:25:35] I needed to hear how did this idea land for you? And if the idea hasn't landed for you yet, I don't wanna hear from you. Like, don't just turn in an essay. Yes. And so part of the training in high school, especially if you've got homeschoolers in this audience, but even in regular high school mm-hmm. . To give agency to a child's voice, and one of the few ways they can feel [00:26:00] they have a voice is opposing your voice. [00:26:03] So even though you think to yourself, This is a dangerous idea, , I want you to step back and think how cool that they felt that they could take the risk to tell me this crazy idea that I would never want them to believe. Because what they're saying to you is, I'm entertaining. The thought world that counters the moral center of this family. [00:26:27] Maren: Yes. I love that. And actually, that's one of the things I was just gonna ask you about, Julie, because I just watched one of your. Instagram reels about encouraging parents to argue with their kids. [00:26:36] So this, I think this is a great example of [00:26:40] Julie: encouraging critical thinking. Oh, it totally is. And I wanna give credit to one of my staff members because this morning I was having this meeting with Ramona and Ramona said, Julie, one of my kids is in your brave writer movie class on dystopian movies, and she. [00:26:56] The dystopian genre . And I told her, [00:27:00] Take that class cuz it's gonna have your best writing. Yeah. And so she's in there just hating these movies. They're watching them as a family and having huge arguments about them. And I was like, That totally reminds me of when my kids' dad and my kids argued about Nacho Libre for two long, Oh my gosh. [00:27:18] In the middle of summer, on our back deck after a barbecue, just dissecting the characterizations, arguing over whether or not this was a good movie. And so I think we sometimes forget that kids, they love that idea of being an. They love the feeling of being able to take an adult model of something and then shred it. [00:27:38] My son, Jake, totally, as a great example, he today, just to give kind of context, he's a human rights lawyer who works for the in Central Africa Republic. [00:27:47] Maren: Wow. So you need to be a critical thinker for, for that job. [00:27:49] Julie: Oh heavens yes. Went to Columbia Law School. Right. So he, he knows how to think, but I remember in junior or in, when he was a junior in high school, he watched this one movie, Some of [00:28:00] your, your listeners could even look it up. [00:28:01] It's called Zeitgeist. It was a thing in the mid two thousands. Okay. It's basically a massive critique of capitalism and it really does promote sort of a communist worldview and you know, eradicating the monetary system, et cetera. And I remember he came to my ex-husband when we were married, my husband and I at the time, And he's like, Mom, this is how the world needs to be. [00:28:23] But we watched it and his dad was saying to me, Oh no, Jacob's gonna end up in this horrible ti world of weird conspiracy theorists with the Illuminati, you know? Oh, totally. And I said, You know what, Actually, John, this is amazing. Not only is he watching it, he's telling us he's watching it, and he is critiquing the system that feels. [00:28:47] Air, like water. Like he didn't know this was a system Yeah. To critique until he heard there was a critique. Like you can criticize money. What, what a thought. Right. He had never known Right. [00:29:00] To do that. Yeah. And so we just leaned in. We just asked more questions, watched the movie, agreed with what we could raise questions about what seemed inconsistent, but we didn't like attack it. [00:29:10] It was more like, Is that working anywhere in the world? You know, like ask kinds of questions. And he evolved through it. He didn't stay there. Of course, yes. It was like a starting place for critique. [00:29:22] Maren: I think we have to remember that our kids aren't, aren't going to stay in their thoughts for the rest of their lives. [00:29:28] They are, their, their brains continue to develop and it's really the practice of critical thinking. It's the practice of learning. It's the, the, the practice of curiosity and synthesizing and having conversations and growing. That's what they take. To the next level of their lives. A thousand percent. Yeah. [00:29:49] They don't take this one topic and just, you know, think this is life [00:29:55] Julie: for the rest of their lives. Well, it's easy to do that experiment with yourself. Yes. How [00:30:00] many of your really hard one positions that you took at age 15 or 18 are still identical with how you think about the world today? [00:30:09] Maren: I'm so glad they're. [00:30:10] No, [00:30:11] Julie: No no. And in fact, how many I, I ask this in conferences all the time. So if I have a room of a hundred people, I say, How many of you hold the same exact beliefs as your parents in the areas of sex, politics, education, parenting, and food and exercise? And out of a hundred people, only 10 raise their hand. [00:30:31] Wow. So what you need to know is that same ratio is gonna be true in your family. There might be one kid who. Agrees or aligns with you generally, but there are gonna be a whole bunch who don't, and that doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with them. And it doesn't mean they've abandoned their morals. [00:30:49] It means they're thinking deeply. [00:30:52] Maren: That is so, so, so true. And I I just think what a skill. What a skill to learn and to not have to be [00:31:00] perfect at when you're 15 or 18 or even probably 21 . I mean, this is gonna take a while. This is not a perfection. This is not something that's gonna get perfected. [00:31:09] Early on and it, it, it might not ever, I mean, this is, yeah, this is a process. I was just thinking today, you know, I , you know, made a few mistakes. I'm 46, so, [00:31:19] Julie: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm 60. I, I've changed my mind countless times and if, and you will continue to, will continue to, and also you can't anticipate what will become an. [00:31:32] So none of us knew what a pandemic was. None of us knew how to respond to a pandemic. We were all jumping into our communities to tell us, these people are trustworthy. These people are not. This information's reliable, this information is not. Yeah. And we were using our blind loyalty to community to guide us because none of us has the expertise to evaluate. [00:31:57] Pandemics epidemics, vaccines, [00:32:00] public health economics, that are the result of this, you know, guidelines for how you run a company. All of that was suddenly up for grabs. Yeah. And when that happens, we stop thinking critically. We actually jump in with both feet to our safest communities. And what I've had to train myself to do, and this is something I write about in the book, Is notice that, Yes. [00:32:25] So when I'm scrolling through Facebook and some high school person I haven't talked to in 35 years, post an article and I think, Oh my gosh, that is the dumbest article I've ever seen. When I feel that smugness come up, yes, I know. I'm not critically thinking, Yeah, I am self protecting in that moment, critical thinking at that moment is, Oh, this is from someone I don't typically trust. [00:32:48] This is a person I haven't thought about in 30 years. Right. I don't really know what she's like anymore. She thought this was worth posting on Facebook. That's interesting. Mm-hmm. . I wonder what that says about her. I wonder if I've ever read this [00:33:00] article with this writer through the lens of this other person. [00:33:03] What, what might there be to learn? In reading it. Now, to be honest, I can't do that a lot. I, it takes so much energy to do that. But to keep myself honest, I try to do it fairly regularly. I try to give myself access to viewpoints that make me cringe. Mm-hmm. and I don't do it to deconstruct them. Yes, I do it to understand them. [00:33:29] Maren: That is so good. And it's also alternatively, when we, I think read, read articles or listen to something that is from somebody we normally do agree with. Like we, I think we also also have to think critically like, Yep, do I agree with this? Or what part of it is, Do I do I think is, you know, real or you know, is there part, are there parts I. [00:33:49] Push back on a little bit or something. So I think it's so good to do both. Absolutely. [00:33:54] Julie: Great point, Miller. Yeah. [00:33:56] Maren: Yeah. Okay. So I wanna go back to some of your work, Julie, because I [00:34:00] know Ev, everything you've always put out there, you've always encouraged us to make it our own. And I think you've, from the beginning, have encouraged us all to think critically. [00:34:09] You've inspired. Us all to do poetry, tea, time, , and I'm not kidding you. I have my oldest reads poetry by herself now all the time, and I, I attribute it all to poetry, tea time. I really do. So that you so much, but I know that you also encourage everyone to make. Their own special thing. So what is, What do you think is the key to those magical learning moments like poetry, tea time, or something else that we [00:34:41] Julie: have come up with? [00:34:43] I think when we're talking about learning, what we're actually talking about is a meaningful connection or relationship. To what is being learned. And so just to deconstruct poetry tee time for a moment. Yeah. I knew that adults hated poetry , [00:35:00] and for some reason my whole life I've loved it. I think because I'm innately a writer, and so any manipulation of language has been interesting to me. [00:35:08] My mother also gave me a a rummy card game that was all. So when I was young, I knew all the names of poets, which then later made me wanna read their poems. My father, my grandfather, gave me a poetry book that was a, I'll read to you if you read to me book. So I would share it with my brother or a friend who came over, or my mother, and we'd read poems to each other cuz of the nature of this book. [00:35:30] Awesome. So my early childhood was really warm towards poetry and then song lyrics became my obsession. Bruce Springsteen, Jackson Brown, Tom Petty, they all write such great storytelling and such great lyrics. So as I was raising kids, I was disturbed to discover that adults didn't like poetry. Oh. And I was so afraid that would happen to my children. [00:35:53] And I was on this email list back in the day in the nineties, and somebody shared that she was teaching geography to [00:36:00] her kids, but they didn't like geography. So she started making tea and cookies for when they studied geography. Yes. And suddenly they all liked geography. And I was. Well, I can do that. [00:36:11] We, I drink tea every day. Exactly. And so I created this whole British tea time and added poetry to it. And so I think really what we're saying is when something seems opaque or difficult, we want to tie it to something that automatically creates a sense of warmth and pleasure and openness. So I wish someone had done that for me with. [00:36:34] That that did not happen with Math , but with my kids, because it never happened to me with math. Mm-hmm. , I put so much more energy into manipulatives and games and cards and dices. That's so great. Yes. And even though my kids would all say, and they will say this openly, that math was not my strong suit. [00:36:54] What is ironic is all five of them have been very [00:37:00] successful in math and they, they came out, two of them are programmers and three of them did calculus and I mean, that's amazing. You did that. Good job, Julia. I take credit, it doesn't matter what they think. No, but honestly, the early years to me are what were the foundation for that. [00:37:18] And then I hired tutors and they did take some math at school. But my point is, I think what you're asking. How do we create the meaningful sense of connection that makes me warm and open this something that feels intimidating. And for me, that would be a great criteria for creating magic in learning. [00:37:37] Maren: That sounds amazing. I mean, I, I could think about that in every scenario. Like, what is gonna cause this to be a warm. Cozy or warm and safe [00:37:48] Julie: environment. Yes, and and stimulating enough to be interested, right? So, right. You might make tea and cookies to go with math, but if your child's already resistant or sees no purpose in it, they'll eat the [00:38:00] cookies, drink the tea, and still hate math. [00:38:02] Part of what made poetry special is that poetry's easy. You just read it out loud and everybody finds pleasure. But for something that's more of a struggle, I think part of what we wanna do is admit that it's going to be challenging. Provide a lot of support, create as many real life connections as possible, and then do it in small doses so that we don't create a toxic relationship where we're dreading and it feels tiring and I don't wanna do it. [00:38:31] Maren: I love that. Yep. So, so, so true. Okay, so another thing that we, both Angela and I both love about your book. So many other things that you've created is just the activities, but this specific, this book specifically just has so many practical ideas. And a whole book can be intimidating, honestly. Yes. [00:38:50] Sometimes, you know, but if, if you sprinkled out in, you know, throughout the book so many activities that if we. Just pick a few of those activities. I [00:39:00] mean, it would, it could change our home school and I just love that you did that. Did you, did you know you wanted to share practical activities Yes. And ideas when you wrote the [00:39:10] Julie: book? [00:39:10] Because I just feel that way about everything. Right? Like, I just feel like. We spend so much time reading nonfiction books for information and ideas, but the practical implementation is where transformation occurs. Yeah, Yeah. And for me, a lot of these practices are things that sort of, I stumbled on with my own kids because I was obsessed with thinking. [00:39:32] Yes, I was obsessed with it. So, you know, in that very first chapter where I'm talking about viewpoint and says who, and you know, are we hearing the fairy tale from the Wolf's point of view or the narrator's point of view, or the protagonist point of view? Yes. The reason that I am obsessed with that is that that is the foundation of all critical thinking. [00:39:52] Whose viewpoint Yes. Am I listening to? And what is the criteria by which they create that viewpoint? Mm-hmm. . So we can start that [00:40:00] at age. Totally. Yeah, of course. We would watch these Disney movies and we would analyze the characters to death. Why do we love Ursula? Even though she's the bad character? What is it about her that's compelling? [00:40:13] Why is she more interesting than the good characters? And why would Disney do that? Right? And then you just get into this conversation. What is her sob story? Do we believe it? Does she have some justification for being this angry? Ooh, that's so great. These are great questions. And honestly, they sort of forecast what they'll be encountering in college when they're analyzing. [00:40:35] Absolutely. Lenin versus you know Decart. . [00:40:39] Maren: I was just gonna say, because it's really easy at five and. To any age, but especially at five or younger where there's this dichotomy, like you said, bad and good things aren't bad and good, and it's, it's really easy to push that thought through, you know, And it's, that can be very scary. [00:40:59] And to [00:41:00] understand that the bad. The bad guys or bad people in movies may have some underlying things going on. What a great discussion and deep thinking for a five year [00:41:13] Julie: old that Yeah, and you know, they're, they can do that. They're dealing with siblings. Right. How much bullying happens in a family? [00:41:19] Just an absolute ton. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And so if we are only ever treating people in binaries as bad and good, we can easily harden our own families into the good kids, the not good kids. We start scapegoating a child for being disruptive or picking at each other or being loud, and we start treating that child differently because we see them not through a. [00:41:42] Prism of factors, but only through this lens of obedient or cooperative or, you know, creating pleasure for the adult at ease. Right. Versus the child who's taxing and hard. Right? Totally. Yes. And so that's another reason we do this. We want siblings in particular to see a [00:42:00] 360 degree picture of this child. [00:42:02] They have to share a table with, watch a movie, with share a computer, with go on vacations with Right [00:42:09] Maren: or parents too. Their view of their. Good parent, bad parent, right? Yeah. And it's easy to just say that [00:42:14] Julie: you're the bad parent. [00:42:16] Maren: Yeah. You make me do these things. And there's a lot around that too, that they can, they can think criti critically about, which is awesome. [00:42:23] So if there's one thing parents could implement today right now in regards to raising a critical thinker. What do [00:42:30] Julie: you think that would be? Oh, I love this question. So I'm gonna give you a little story by way of example. This is a practice that you can try. So a lot of people think critical thinking is like opinions about social issues and politics, but that that is just one feature. [00:42:46] Critical thinking is literally every decision you make all day. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , Which, you know, which way is the fastest to get downtown without traffic is a critical thinking decision. Absolutely. What to eat for. Do I dessert? First, critical [00:43:00] thinking decisions. What we want to do is invite our children to make more of those judgment calls using their own research and data, rather than usurping that role for them. [00:43:13] So I'll give you a a very clear example. Imagine you have an eight year old, it's time for dinner. Mm-hmm. , you say to that child, Hey honey, it's time to wash your hands. It's time for. And this child who has cooperated with this, you know, command for a year sure. Suddenly says, Yeah, I'm not going to, I don't want to [00:43:30] Most parents have one of two ways they respond. There's the authoritarian model which says you have to cuz I said so, right? Mm-hmm. . So you don't really, you could even give a reason, but mostly you're just like, Dude, I'm the mom. You're not. Go wash your hands. The second way is what I call the manipulative obedience model. [00:43:49] What most periods today call cooperation. And what they do instead of requiring obedience is they manipulate it. So what they say is, Oh honey, you must wash your hands. [00:44:00] They're these things called germs and they live on your fingers. And when you touch the food and then eat it, it will go in your body and make you sick. [00:44:06] This is what science tell tells us. Therefore, you must wash your hands right now. In that second model are very proud of that model. Yes. , they're always like, Oh, I would never ask them to do something. I don't explain , but basically what they're doing is they're giving a bunch of information the child doesn't care about. [00:44:25] Nope. And then requiring the child to accept that as better information then the personal experience they're having right now, which is, I don't wanna wash my hands. Exactly. So what I recommend is this. You can't do this every day. Some days you gotta throw 'em in a car seat without an argument and strap 'em in and go. [00:44:41] Mm. But once in a while, go down the rabbit hole. So when your child says, I don't wanna wash my hands, you say, Oh, well that's interesting. Tell me more about that. Why? Why don't you wanna wash your hands? I don't know. I just don't wanna, Is it the temperature of the water? Let me get a thermometer. [00:45:00] Let's measure the temperature, see which temperature is most comfortable for you. [00:45:03] Ooh, I love that. So you start doing that and the child's like, I still hate it. Oh, okay. So it's not the temperature. Is it the wetness? Yeah. I hate how it feels on my hands. Should we try hand sanitizer or it dries faster? Oh no, that's sticky. Well, that's interesting. So here's where I am. I have this belief about germs, but you don't like washing your hands. [00:45:26] I wonder if there's any other information out there about germs and hands. Mm-hmm. . So you do a little research together online, show 'em, and maybe you discover that heat kills germs. And so you say to your child, How would you feel about not washing your hands? And we just blow dry them with a hot blow dryer, , and the child's like that sounds good. [00:45:43] And so you do that or the child still doesn't want to because here's what might be underlying it, your belief in germ. Is actually not a belief. It's propaganda. You've accepted and here's how I know. Didn't your child just eat Cheerios off the [00:46:00] floor without washing their hands? Right? Didn't you at Target watch the baby, spit out the pacifier? [00:46:05] It landed on the floor of Target, you picked it up, sucked the germs off , and then put that pacifier in your baby's mouth. Do you actually believe in germs or you just doing the parental propaganda program where you pass on information, right? Designed to coerce my child. So what I recommend at that point, Either one of these accommodations. [00:46:27] Okay? We're gonna measure the temperature you like it at, You know, 72. We're always gonna wait till it's that temperature or hand sanitizer, or the blow dryer. Or maybe you just roll the dice. You say, You know what? You're right. I don't even know if I believe my own rhetoric. Should we find out if you get sick? [00:46:44] Are you willing for that to be a possible outcome of this? Let's try it for a week. See what happens. Sure. And then see what happens. Right? Right. Give your child meaningful opportunities to collect data, to ask better questions, [00:47:00] to evaluate their experience. To roll the dice and see what the outcome of their hypothesis is. [00:47:07] Now at the start of covid, could you have done this? No. Right, Because we were terrified and we had information our kids didn't have. So at that point, going online, showing them the germs, explaining how people are in the hospital, giving them a meaningful understanding of why you have this level of fear is a great idea, right? [00:47:26] But on the day to day, That's really not what's animating you. Right? And so I think that's where we have to do a better job of interrogating our own positions and our kids give us a chance to do that. [00:47:38] Maren: Right. And we have to be also, I think careful about imposing our own expectations on their critical thinking. [00:47:46] That's right. Because a five year old may not, even after all that information and all the testing and all the, everything you've done, they might. Yeah. I still don't wanna wash my hands . Right? Because they're not ready for that critical thinking at in that [00:48:00] moment. That's right at for that thing. And that's just where they're at. [00:48:02] You can't force their brain to develop anymore than where they're at right [00:48:06] Julie: now. No. And that's where, like Dr. Becky Gooden side, Dr. Becky was, is so right on. I'm reading that book right now. Oh, oh, so good. So good. So when. , ask a child to cooperate with your better judgment. Mm-hmm. , you are spending capital in that relationship. [00:48:26] Maren: You are spending capital. Absolutely. [00:48:28] Julie: And so that's why we want to make some of these demands fewer, you know, we want minimal demands. Yes. And then we want to explore when we can. A child's opposition because maybe it's just that the child was really engaged in a movie and dinner happened and they don't wanna take the time to wash their hands. [00:48:47] Exactly. And dinner delayed. Can we pause the movie? There could be factors here that have nothing to do with critical thinking about hand washing and just convenience that you are tempted to [00:48:59] Maren: overlook. [00:49:00] Absolutely. And it it, like you said, it also requires us to do our own critical thinking. That's right. [00:49:05] On washing hands or. Eating at 6:00 PM Why does that have to happen, ? That's right. You know there's so many things we can think critically of, and we can be an example of critical thinking. And while our kids might not be like, Oh, mom, you're such a great critical thinker today, , I'm going to follow your example. [00:49:27] The, the consistent, critical thinking every day is going to pay. Them, You know, witnessing that every day and seeing how you are transforming and learning from your own critical thinking. You, our kids can't really help but do that because [00:49:46] Julie: that's their example. In fact, I have a great story about this. [00:49:51] My son, Jacob, that I mentioned before, when he was in high school, he got very interested in this one social issue that was on the ballot. I'm not gonna name which one it [00:50:00] was just to keep everyone neutral. Mm-hmm. . And so he came to me and he is like, Mom, I can't vote yet, but I did all this research and I wanted to tell you why I think you should vote pro. [00:50:09] So he went through almost a PowerPoint level presentation. He had data and research in his computer was open. Yeah, it was really ad. He was like 16 and it was really good. And at the end I was like, Jake, that makes a lot of sense. I totally get where you're coming from. Thank you for sharing all that with me. [00:50:26] He says, So are you gonna vote pro? I said, No, I'm still voting Con. Yeah. And his eyes squirted tears. And he said, Mom, I count on you to be logical . And I said, Wow. Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I don't wanna discount what you just shared with me, but you, what you shared with me didn't account for all of my concerns. [00:50:51] It accounted for a lot of concerns you have. It didn't account for mine. But don't worry about that because this is my. And I don't have to agree [00:51:00] with you to appreciate the strength of your argument. And I think over time your side's gonna win. But I haven't personally been persuaded yet. Yep. And it was a very difficult moment for him. [00:51:12] Fast forward, you know, he's 30 and I'm older, and interestingly enough, We have just the best conversations. He ended up being the research validator for this book. I let him look. Wow. I paid him to do it. He went through and made sure that my arguments were actually built from solid foundations of evidence and, you know, make sure I wasn't quoting some spurious researcher who mm-hmm. [00:51:38] who happened to find their way onto a webpage I didn't vet. And so just to show. He saw me as a logical person, first of all. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , which I think is a beautiful credit. Secondly, we had to learn to live with the tension of disagreement, even when we were both being logical. Yep. And then third, we've built a relationship over time that makes it possible for both of us to [00:52:00] respect our capacity to do research and find answers. [00:52:03] And I think if there's anything I would want for parents, that's what it is. It's not agreement, it's not a. It's this dialogical respect for each person's capacity to show up with their own viewpoint while respecting the other person. [00:52:20] Maren: It's beautifully said. Julie. Thank you so much, and I think that's a perfect place to stop for today, even though I could talk to you for another hour as usual. [00:52:29] But I just appreciate your insight and your encouragement that, you know, we've always, I've always relied on your encouragement through my whole parenting and homeschool journey, so I just thank you [00:52:41] Julie: so much. Well, you do a great job both on this podcast and with your family, and so I. That you are continuing to put out such good information to your people as you [00:52:52] Maren: as well. [00:52:52] All right. Take care. [00:52:54] Julie: Thank you. Bye. [00:52:56] Angela: All right. Let's move on to our lt [00:53:00] Ws. Yes. Marron. What are you loving this week? Okay. I am [00:53:03] Maren: loving a book that I actually happen to talk with Julie about Very Oh, very shortly. I mean, we just like, I think Julie just kind of mentioned it in our conversation. You may have. I picked up on it, but I'm actually reading it right now. [00:53:18] And so it was fun to hear Julie mention it. And it's called Good Inside A Guide to Becoming the Parent You want to Be. And it's by Becky Kennedy, Dr. Becky . And it is just a [00:53:32] Angela: great it is [00:53:34] Maren: confirming. All of the, all of the healthy things we want to do in our parenting. [00:53:42] And I wanna say homeschooling too. Yeah. I think this is a great book for homeschoolers. It's just a great book. So I just, I, I can't say enough good things about Dr. Becky. She's my new favorite. . Yeah. I feel like she says things first. I was gonna say Angela, she says things that we. [00:54:00] Yeah, I was first gonna say maybe better. [00:54:03] Mm-hmm. , But actually I'm giving ourselves credit, Angela, and I'm gonna just gonna say, she says it in it with a twist, you know, that's, Yeah. On with her specialty, you know, as a doctor for, And I think we have this twist as a specialty, you know, as parents and educators and you know, we [00:54:17] Angela: have, but we're, we're really share, We [00:54:20] Maren: really share so much of the same message. [00:54:22] Yes. [00:54:23] Angela: And so Good. I'm loving. Yeah. You know, people need to hear things in different ways and from different people and I, so I fully support like different people, books and podcast and whatever. Yeah. But she I have not read her book, but I do want to mm-hmm. because what I've really liked about her is you know, she doesn't profess to. [00:54:45] Always do it right, . Exactly. Yep. And she describes that in the book too for sure. Yes. Like she's just coming from a place of like, Look, I'm in the trenches with you too. Like, I get it. Yeah. Things are triggering, things are hard. And [00:55:00] so she's really Supportive in that way. It feels like it feels reachable. [00:55:04] It feels attainable. Yes. [00:55:06] Maren: And it is good to hear from, you know, a, a, a doctor, a psychologist, you know, who really understands the brain and how it just very intricately. [00:55:16] Angela: Yes. And so it is, it's, it's science [00:55:18] Maren: that this is really good parenting and, and it's effective and it's just healthy. Mm-hmm. , it's just healthy for. [00:55:26] Physically, mentally, emotionally, [00:55:27] Angela: it's all healthy. . Yeah. And her premises, it's called Good Inside because Good inside. Yeah. Because we are all good inside. Yep. Kids too. We're all like wanting to do our Yes. Do good and do our best, so. Yep. Yeah, so I love that. I love that. Yes. Thank you for [00:55:42] Maren: sharing that. [00:55:43] Yes, of course. I'm, I'm excited for you to read it. I know you will, [00:55:46] Angela: and it'll be fun. I'll probably listen, Are you listening? I'm listening. Yeah. Yeah. Does she read? Yes. Okay. Yeah, that'll be what I'll do. All right, Angela, what do you loving this week? I am loving something that I think I may have talked to you about in private, [00:56:00] but now I would like the whole world to know about it. [00:56:01] Yes. It's called Calm aid. Oh, yes. And this is a natural supplement for anxiety, overwhelming stress. And you can get it on Amazon and you can get it cheaply. So we have subscribed and saved to it. . That is [00:56:16] Maren: amazing. You know, it's a, you know, it's a winner. You know, we need it. Subscribe and saved . Yes. [00:56:21] Angela: And the reason why I like it is because I was. [00:56:25] You know I've been on medication for anxiety and depression. Some of my kids have been on things at different times. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. for different things. And so we have a psychiatrist that we talk to. Yeah. And the psychiatrist was telling me that this calm aid is over the counter, right? Mm-hmm. [00:56:42] it's an over the counter thing, but. In many countries, like European countries, she said it's their first line of defense. For something like anxiety or depression before you, they try other medications. Wow. And so this is just their first go [00:57:00] to. It's real. It's a real, It really works. Yeah. All it is is lavender. [00:57:04] It's lavender. It's a lavender pill. That's all that's in. It is lavender. It's concentrated. It's concentrated. Right. Small capsule that is easy to swallow. Okay. That's what I would need. Yep. Right. So it's in a small, easy to swallow capsule. It's just lavender so you can feel good knowing mm-hmm. , that that's all you're taking. [00:57:22] Yeah. But it really does help. Like I have been taking it every morning. And on the days that I take it, I can tell that I feel much calmer, much less stressed. On the package it says you should take it twice a day. So I think if you were you know, really wanting to be more serious, you could take it twice a day if you were unsure about trying medication. [00:57:42] This could be a good place to start. If you were unsure for one of your kids, this could, this could be a good place to start for one of them too. I just think we more people need to know about it because I had, I had never heard about it until the psychiatrist recommended it, and I just think like, and it gets all these great reviews, so I just think, why [00:58:00] don't, maybe more people already knew about it and I just didn't. [00:58:02] Yeah, right. But. It has really been helpful for me and some of my kids. I was gonna say maybe [00:58:08] Maren: it's everybody in Europe who's, who's given it all those high stars. I mean, that's, that's amazing. [00:58:13] Angela: Yeah. So, Well, I'm [00:58:16] Maren: so glad that you, have you found something for, you know, for Totally. There's so many of, I mean, there are so many of us I think that who could use. [00:58:23] Something like that without a prescription would be [00:58:25] Angela: great. Mm-hmm. so great. So thank you. And it's just, it's a first, It's, I know it's hard to try medication if you haven't. It is before, it's a hard first step. And so like this, this is something you could try before that if you Yeah, [00:58:37] Maren: yeah. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . [00:58:39] We wanna thank our three sponsors, Blossom and Root Out School and Night Zookeeper. Be sure to check out their links in our [00:58:49] Angela: show. This podcast is created and hosted by Angela Se and Marrin Gors. [00:58:55] We are listeners supported to get extra content and the Back to School Summit free with your [00:59:00] membership. Go to patreon.com/homeschool on refined. Subscribe to our newsletter and get our free top 100 inclusive firstname.lastname@example.org slash newsletter. You can find Marron on Instagram at unrefined marron and at Always Learning with Marron, and you can find Angela. [00:59:18] Unrefined. Angela