Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast

The focal point of this podcast episode revolves around the exploration of Type Seven within the Enneagram framework, characterized by their intrinsic desire for excitement and aversion to emotional pain. We delve into the complexities of the Seven's experience, emphasizing the multifaceted nature of their personality, which is often misunderstood as superficiality. Through thoughtful discourse, we unravel the dichotomy of their vibrant exterior contrasted with the profound emotional depth they possess, often hidden beneath a facade of joy. By sharing personal anecdotes and insights, we aim to illuminate the rich inner world of Sevens, fostering a greater understanding of their motivations and challenges. The dialogue further encourages listeners to reflect on their own interactions and perceptions of this dynamic type, inviting a deeper appreciation for the nuanced layers that define the Seven's journey.Human Interview: Milton Stewartkaizencareers.comDo It For The Gram PodcastThe Enneagram Institute Type 7The Narrative EnneagramType 7Awareness to ActionType 7Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic Enneagram

The salient focus of our discourse today revolves around the exploration of Type 6 within the Enneagram framework, characterized predominantly by a quest for security and an instinctive response to perceived threats. Throughout this episode, I engage with nine distinguished speakers, each contributing unique insights into the complexities that define this personality type. We delve into the dual expressions of Type 6, namely the phobic and counterphobic tendencies, highlighting how both seek safety albeit through divergent methodologies. The conversation further touches upon the intrinsic relationship between fear and courage, elucidating how these emotions coexist and inform the behaviors of Type 6 individuals. As we navigate these profound themes, our aim is to foster a comprehensive understanding of Type 6, encouraging listeners to reflect on how these dynamics may manifest in their own lives and in their interactions with others.Human Interview: Ben CampbellWebsiteInstagramAwareness to ActionType 6The Enneagram InstituteType 6The Narrative EnneagramType 6Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic Enneagram

The focal point of today's discourse revolves around the Enneagram Type Five, characterized by their profound inclination towards detachment and observation as a means of navigating an overwhelmingly stimulating world. We delve into the complexities inherent in the Five's experience, particularly emphasizing their heightened sensitivity, which often compels them to create emotional distance from their surroundings. Throughout our dialogue, various participants elucidate the nuances of the Five's emotional landscape, shedding light on the intricate interplay between intellect and feeling that defines their existence. Additionally, we reflect upon the common misconceptions surrounding Fives, particularly the notion that they are devoid of emotion, highlighting instead their rich internal life and the necessity for connection. As we progress, we invite listeners to consider how understanding Type Five can foster deeper empathy and insight into their own experiences and those of others.HUMAN INTERVIEW: Melissa KircherWebsiteInstagramTwitterTicktokThe Enneagram InstituteType 5Awareness to ActionType 5The Narrative EnneagramType 5Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the...

In this special collaborative episode with Do It for The Gram, the International Enneagram Association Podcast and Fathoms, Milton Stewart is joined by Seth “Creek” Creekmore, Lindsey Marks and Lee Fields as they preview the upcoming IEA Enneagram Experience 2025 - Global Conference and Celebration. All four hosts will be in attendance, so they share what they are looking forward to at this summer's annual event while also reflecting on this year's theme — 30 years honoring Enneagram pioneers and future frontiers.The Fathoms team will continue to host the IEA podcast with the traditional long form interviews with legendary figures as well as collect personal stories from attendees to deeply humanize this work. In their current Season Five, Fathoms has been focusing on the history of the Enneagram from the perspective of different schools and models to get a fuller picture of how they've come into this tool, providing an important and better framework and grounding before the conference.Milton's Links and Handles:Join KCEP Program: kaizen-enneagram-community.mn.coThe B.I.G. Enneagram Retreat: bigenneagramretreat.simvoly.com/applicationMilton's Website: KaizenCareers.comUpcoming Events: kaizencareers.com/upcoming-eventsIEA Links:IEA Enneagram Experience 2025: ieaexperience.comIEA Podcast: international-enneagram.captivate.fmConnect with Creek:Instagram: @_creekmorePod: Fathoms | An Enneagram PodcastPod: Awareness to Action Enneagram PodcastPod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. BConnect with Lindsey:IG: @lindseyfaithdmPod: Fathoms | An Enneagram PodcastConnect with Lee:Web: enneagrammatic.comIG: @enneagrammaticAwareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose...

This podcast episode delves into the complexities of the Enneagram Type 3, also known as "The Achiever." We explore the dichotomy of striving for excellence while grappling with the inherent anxieties of performance and recognition. A special guest, Vanessa Fernandez, shares her personal journey in understanding her threeness, articulating the challenges of balancing ambition with authenticity. Throughout the discussion, we highlight the often-overlooked emotional depth and relational dynamics of Type 3 individuals, emphasizing that their drive for success is not merely superficial but deeply intertwined with their sense of self-worth. As we navigate these themes, we encourage listeners to reflect on their own experiences and perceptions surrounding achievement and recognition.HUMAN INTERVIEW: Vanessa FernandezWEBSITEEnneagramworkshop.comPODCASTThe Enneagram Workshop PodcastThe Enneagram InstituteType 3The Narrative EnneagramType 3Awareness to ActionType 3Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic EnneagramFrom Armor to Ease

The focal point of this podcast episode revolves around the exploration of Enneagram Type Four, often perceived as the individualistic or romantic type, characterized by a profound longing for identity and uniqueness. Our discussion delves into the complexities of the emotional landscape of Fours, emphasizing their capacity for creativity and introspection, as well as the challenges they face with feelings of inadequacy and longing for connection. Throughout the episode, we engage in a rigorous examination of how Fours navigate their emotional depths and the societal perceptions that often label them as overly sensitive or melancholic. The insights offered by our guests illuminate the paradoxes inherent in the Four's journey—balancing the pursuit for meaning with the acceptance of the mundane aspects of life. Ultimately, we aim to foster a deeper understanding of Type Fours, inviting listeners to appreciate the rich and nuanced experiences that define this unique personality type.Human Interview: Stephanie SpencerWEBSITEstephaniejspencer.comBOOKSOut of the Box & Into the Wild: An Enneagram Journey Through the Triads of NatureBeyond Your NumberAwareness to ActionType 4The Enneagram InstituteType 4The Narrative EnneagramType 4Jerry Seinfeld on writers blockAwareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:

The primary focus of this podcast episode revolves around the exploration of Enneagram Type 2, often referred to as "the Helper." We delve into the intricacies of this type, examining the motivations that drive individuals characterized by this type to seek connection and affirmation through their relationships with others. In particular, we scrutinize the potential for mistyping, as Type 2s may exhibit traits that overlap with other Enneagram types, such as Sevens and Nines, leading to confusion in self-identification. The conversation further highlights the emotional nuances and inherent challenges faced by Type 2s, including the struggle with boundaries and the tendency to prioritize others' needs over their own. Throughout our discourse, we aim to provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the complexities of Type 2, offering insights that may facilitate personal growth and interpersonal dynamics.Human Interview: Hunter MobleyLetting Go, Finding You: Uncover Your Truest Self through the Enneagram and ContemplationForty Days on Being a Two The Narrative Enneagram - Type 2The Enneagram Institute - Type 2Awareness to Action - Type 2Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:

The focal point of this podcast episode is a thorough exploration of Type One in the Enneagram, often referred to as the "Reformer" or "Perfectionist." This discussion encompasses the characteristics of Type One, such as their principled nature, commitment to integrity, and the relentless pursuit of improvement. Throughout the dialogue, we delve into the intricate dynamics of the inner critic that Ones frequently experience, highlighting how this internal voice shapes their actions and interactions. Additionally, we examine the manifestations of their striving for perfection, noting the balance between their desire to reform and the acceptance of imperfection in themselves and others. As we engage with various speakers, we endeavor to provide a comprehensive understanding of the One's journey, emphasizing their inherent warmth and altruism beneath the surface of their idealistic aspirations.Human Interview: Micky ScottBey Jones - WebsiteAwareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic EnneagramFrom Armor to EaseThe Enneagram InstituteGayle Scott: Email - gayle@enneagrammysteryschool.comMichael Naylor:Web - enneagrammaine.comYou Tube -

Lee Fields joins as Lindsey discusses the realization that she was mistyped as a Type Two. This conversation highlights that identifying an Enneagram type is a lot harder than people think, so mistyping can happen. Initially thinking she was a Type Two, Lindsey shares why she thought she fit into this type and how learning that she's in fact a different type has helped her grow as a person.Awareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic EnneagramFrom Armor to EaseThe Enneagram InstituteGayle Scott: Email - gayle@enneagrammysteryschool.comMichael Naylor:Web - enneagrammaine.comYou Tube - Enneagram Maine Interviews—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Growth for Unserious Humans—Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership CommunityCo-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey MarksProduction/Editing: Liminal PodcastsFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow...

In our discourse on Enneagram Type Nine, we collectively unpack the layers of the Peacemaker's identity, guided by the insights of my fellow speakers. We begin by defining pivotal terms such as 'type', 'strategy', and 'pattern', which serve as foundational concepts for our exploration. The conversation transitions into examining how Nines often embody a facade of peace while grappling with underlying anxieties and fears. This dichotomy is crucial, as it reveals the struggle for authenticity that many Nines face. Each speaker contributes unique perspectives on the Nine's journey of self-discovery, articulating the balance between maintaining external harmony and asserting personal significance. We also reflect on how Nines may inadvertently suppress their own needs to avoid conflict, ultimately leading to feelings of frustration and invisibility. This episode provides a compelling narrative that underscores the importance of self-acceptance and the courage it takes for Nines to assert their voices within a world that often overlooks them.Caryn Berleycarynberley.comEnneagram InvitationsEnneagram Typecast PodcastSomatic Enneagram PodcastAwareness to ActionEnneagram on Demand - Certification ProgramMario Sikora: IG: @mariosikoraTikTok: @mariosikoraWeb: mariosikora.comSubstack: mariosikora.substack.comMaria Jose Munita: IG: @mjmunitaWeb: mjmunita.comPodcasts:Awareness to Action Enneagram in a MovieThe Narrative TraditionTerry Saracino:Web: https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/team/terry-saracino/Christopher Copeland:Web: illuminatingpaths.comNarrative Podcasts:Heart of the EnneagramThe Somatic Enneagram

This episode delves into the intricate dimensions of the Enneagram Type 8, characterized by its assertive and dynamic nature. We engage in a profound discussion with Mandy Capehart, who shares her personal insights and experiences, illuminating the complexities of navigating grief and power in relation to this type. Mandy, alongside the three esteemed educators from various Enneagram schools, enriches our understanding by articulating how Type 8 individuals embody strength, yet are often misperceived as solely aggressive. Our conversation traverses the nuanced interplay of empathy and directness, revealing how Type 8s can wield their inherent power not merely through control, but through fostering connection and support for others. This episode ultimately serves as an exploration of the transformative potential within Type 8, encouraging listeners to reflect upon their own relationships with power and vulnerability.mandycapehart.comRestorative Grief by Mandy Capehart TYPE 8The Narrative Enneagram - type 8The Enneagram Institute - type8Awareness to Action - type 8CENTERSThe Narrative Enneagram - centersThe Enneagram Institute - centersAwareness To Action - why we don't teach themWINGSThe Enneagram Institute - wingsThe Narrative Enneagram - wingsAwareness to Action - what did you do with the wings?LINESAwareness to Action - neglected & support strategiesThe Narrative Enneagram - stress & securityThe Enneagram Institute -

The core focus of this episode revolves around the intricate dynamics of the instincts, or instinctual biases within the Enneagram framework, specifically addressing the distinctions between the various schools of thought on this subject. We examine the varying perspectives offered by our esteemed teachers, highlighting how these biases or drives can influence behavior and interpersonal relations, while also considering their implications for personal development. As we engage in this multifaceted conversation, we invite listeners to reflect on their own experiences and observations regarding these instinctual drives, as they are essential in shaping our interactions and self-perceptions. Ultimately, we aim to illuminate the complexities and provide clarity on how the instincts can be harnessed for greater self-awareness and growth.Resources:The Narrative Tradition - https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/programs/instincts-subtypes-3/The Enneagram Institute - https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/how-the-enneagram-system-works/#h-the-three-instinctsAwareness to Action - https://awarenesstoaction.com/our-instinctual-biases-three-patterns-of-attention-and-values-and-how-they-shape-the-way-we-work/IEA Pod: Exploring the Instincts & Subtypes pt 1 IEA Pod: Exploring the Instincts & Subtypes pt 2 IEA Pod: Exploring the Instincts & Subtypes pt 3Cognitive Bias Resources - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_biasLogical Fallacies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies Science Books“Behave” by Robert Sapolsky“Social Chemistry” by Marissa King7 ½ Lessons About the Brain” by Lisa Feldman Barrett“The Selfish Gene” by Richard Dawkins“Basic Instinct: The Genesis of Behavior” by Mark S. Blumberg“A Hunter-Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century” by Heather Heying and Bret WeinsteinDon't Forget a Huge List of Resources Recommended by Fathoms and Our Teachers!

This podcast episode delves into the rich and complex history of the Enneagram, highlighting its origins and the various schools of thought that have shaped its understanding today. The conversation explores how the Enneagram serves as both a tool for personal growth and a map for navigating human experiences, emphasizing the importance of historical context in shaping contemporary interpretations. Key figures such as Oscar Ichazo, Claudio Naranjo, and the founders of the Riso Hudson Institute are discussed, illustrating their contributions to the Enneagram's development as a personality model. The hosts and guests reflect on the significance of integrating historical narratives with personal experiences, urging listeners to recognize the fluidity and evolving nature of this ancient wisdom. With insights from various experts, this episode encourages a deeper understanding of how historical perspectives inform present practices in the Enneagram community and our daily lives.—ResourcesPodcast Episodes:Milo Rossi & Flint Dibble - Bridges Podcast (The Importance of Accurate History)The Enneagram in the Narrative Tradition - “Spotlights on Helen Palmer”Where Did the Enneagram Come From Pt 1 - Mario SikoraWhere Did the Enneagram Come From Pt 2 - Mario SikoraThe Dawn of the Enneagram with Russ Hudson - Totem PodcastArticles:The Six EnneadsEvagrius Ponticus George GurdjieffSarmoung BrotherhoodOscar IchazoClaudio NaranjoThe origin of the Enneagram - Claudio Naranjo speaks - June 2010Letter to the Transpersonal Community - by Claudio NaranjoMythmaking and the Evolution of the Enneagram of Personality, Part 1 - Mario Sikora"Nature and Nurture: Acquiring an Enneagram Type,” - Dr. David Daniels“The Narrative Tradition” - Helen...

Season five of the podcast marks an exciting new chapter as the hosts dive deep into the Enneagram, exploring its nuances through the lens of three primary schools of thought: the Riso Hudson School, the Narrative Enneagram, and the Awareness to Action approach. This season aims to clarify the often-confusing landscape of Enneagram teachings, offering listeners a resource that distinguishes between various interpretations and encourages critical thinking. The hosts, including Creek, Lindsey, and Abram, share personal insights and updates about their lives, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and openness in understanding the complexities of human behavior. Listeners can expect longer, biweekly episodes filled with engaging conversations and opportunities for interaction. With a focus on creating a clear and accessible framework, this season promises to enrich both newcomers and seasoned enthusiasts alike in their Enneagram journey.—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Work for Unserious Humans—Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership CommunityCo-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey MarksProduction/Editing: Liminal PodcastsFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Join us January 16th for our biggest season yet! In true Fathoms form, we'll be diving into EVERYTHING Enneagram! This will be the first and only stop for everyone trying to get a taste of all things Enneagram, from the history, types, and the most important growth! You'll get to hear from legendary teachers, from different schools, your fellow nerds of all walks of life and of course, plenty of cackling and practical content from your hosts, Abram, Lindsey and Creek! Check below for links to stay connected and support so the content can reach as many people as possible!Thanks to Christian McClain for his use of his incredible song “Older”Check out his new EP here!—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: Serious Work for Unserious Humans—Help Fathoms, By Supporting Us Here: Fathoms Membership CommunityCo-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey MarksProduction/Editing: Liminal PodcastsFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Drew's departure from the Fathoms podcast marks a significant transition for everyone involved, as they reflect on the challenges and growth that come with saying goodbye. Throughout the conversation, Drew shares his journey of reinventing himself after losing his job and the emotional complexities that accompany such a change. The team discusses the importance of acknowledging loss and the value of maintaining connections, even when circumstances evolve. They explore how transitions can lead to personal growth and a deeper understanding of one's identity beyond professional roles. As they reminisce about their shared experiences, the group emphasizes gratitude for the influence and camaraderie they've built over the years, affirming that while goodbyes can be painful, they also pave the way for new beginnings.This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Leslie Flood Hershberger joins the Fathoms podcast to discuss the Enneagram and its profound implications on personal development, particularly in the context of navigating the second half of life. The conversation begins with Leslie reflecting on her own journey with the Enneagram, a tool she originally approached to better understand those around her—her family, students, and colleagues. As she delved deeper into the Enneagram, Leslie discovered that the true work lies not merely in categorizing personalities but in fostering a genuine presence and awareness of oneself. This shift from a superficial understanding of the Enneagram to a more intimate exploration of personal growth marks a significant evolution in her practice. Throughout the episode, Leslie emphasizes the importance of acknowledging the complexities of life transitions, particularly as one ages. She discusses how the second half of life often invites individuals to confront their shadows—the parts of themselves they have repressed or neglected. This process is not just about facing discomfort but also about embracing regrets and recognizing their role as teachers. Leslie draws on her extensive experience, highlighting that the journey is unique for everyone; some may begin their second half of life work in their 30s, while others may not engage with it until much later. The deep emotional and spiritual insights shared by Leslie provide listeners with a framework for understanding their own experiences of growth, loss, and transformation.The episode culminates in a rich discussion about the three centers of intelligence: the head, heart, and body. Leslie proposes a re-evaluation of how these centers are perceived in relation to the Enneagram, suggesting that the body center, often overlooked, is crucial for understanding our instinctual responses. She argues that true emotional connection can only occur when we ground ourselves in our physical sensations and feelings. This perspective not only deepens the understanding of the Enneagram but also serves as a call to action for listeners to integrate these centers into their personal development practices, highlighting the importance of somatic awareness as a gateway to authenticity and presence.Takeaways: Leslie Flood Hershberger emphasizes that the Enneagram serves as a tool for self-discovery and personal growth throughout various life stages. The conversation highlights the importance of integrating emotional awareness into the practice of the Enneagram, especially as one ages. Understanding the distinction between emotional experiences and somatic feelings can enhance personal transformation work. In the second half of life, individuals are often asked to let go of attachments that no longer serve them, leading to deeper self-awareness. Leslie shares insights on how grief and loss profoundly shape one's journey into the second half of life. The podcast underscores that shadow work can be a powerful portal for personal growth and healing, revealing hidden aspects of ourselves. Links referenced in this episode:lesliehershberger.comenneagramshop.comSupport our podcast: • fathomspodcast.com/supportFollow us on Instagram:@fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

In this episode, we talk to Sandra C. Smith, an Enneagram teacher, about her new book, The Enneagram Map to Your Deeper Self: Living Beyond Your Type.[2:44] Getting to know Sandra through summer-themed questions[8:26] Sandra's personal journey with the Enneagram[12:19] Sandra's teachers, their influences on her and how they show up in her book[17:16] Defining type and why is understanding that you're more than and not just your type is important for your growth[25:37] How Sandra's strengths show up as she wrote her book[29:19] The dualities of the types[41:39] This yearning to open ourselves to more of what we are[47:21] Prompt for each type to help them reframe and move beyond their own limited perspective[52:24] Why we should buy Sandra's book and where they can buy itFollow Sandra's work: Alchemy Works // @sandrasmithalchemyworks // Heart of the Enneagram Podcast // “The Enneagram Map to Your Deeper Self: Living Beyond Your Type”—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Serious Work for Unserious Humans.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey MarksProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreSupport our podcast: https://fathomspodcast.com/supportFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdmThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy

Here's Part 2 of our Season Finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. [2:00] How can we move forward with these terms despite the issues? [13:05] Ego & Essence as bypassing[19:05] It's about the process, not a destination[24:00] Individuality, Mutuality, & Unity in relation to ego and essence[31:35] Russ' and Mario's closing remarks for people using the enneagram[35:40] The Fathoms Cohosts provide their initial reactions to the conversation[45:05] How we'll use the terms “ego” & “essence” moving forward[60:00] Abram shares a story[1:01:00] Linz hands out podcast awards to the guys[1:05:30] Why we do this podcast—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

It's here! Part 1 of our season finale: Revisiting Ego & Essence. To end our season, we have a deep and meaningful conversation with enneagram legends Russ Hudson and Mario Sikora on these often used, often misunderstood concepts. Lee Fields joins the Fathoms crew for this conversation, which always makes us better. [1:00] A quick recap of this season[5:30] We talk about (and cringe a bit) our Season 1 episode on Ego & Essence[12:30] Lindsey's thoughts about the first episode as a listener[14:15] Our thoughts behind ending the season with the topic of Ego & Essence[18:50] Some tips listening to this conversation with Russ & Mario[23:00] Our conversation with Russ & Mario begins[25:15] What's the conversation we need to have today about ego & essence? [27:45] Having beginner's mind with ego & essence?[28:50] Russ & Mario's first meeting…and first impressions![30:45] Their common fascination with zombies[32:50] What Russ and Mario admire about each other's enneagram work[35:45] Russ and Mario's definition of “ego” and “essence”[45:00] Examples of how they've changed their minds on ego and essence[55:30] How Mario interprets Russ' view of ego and essence[1:00:00] Russ on “essence”[1:08:00] Mario's problems with the term “essence”[1:11:45] Why are still using these words in these ways?[1:18:45] Lindsey pushes back a bitStay tuned for Part 2 of our conversation with Russ & Mario next week! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Today we debrief our three-episode series on trauma. If you haven't listened to those interviews with Sharon K. Ball, Dr. B, and Miles Adcox, be sure to check them out! We also talk about our next episode, where we revisit the concepts of ego and essence. In that episode we're joined by enneagram legends Mario Sikora and Russ Hudson! [2:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Sharon K. Ball, including her 3 m's: movement, meaningful connections, mindfulness[5:20] Reflecting on our conversation with Dr. B, including “resilience is not random.”[14:00] Reflecting on our conversation with Miles Adcox, including his thoughts on projection between therapist and client[19:40] Setting up our next episode, revisiting Ego and Essence. What we still think, how we've changed our views, etc. —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Today we finish our series of conversations on trauma and personhood with Miles Adcox. He is the Chairman and Owner of Onsite, an internationally-known emotional wellness lifestyle brand that delivers life-changing personal growth workshops, digital mental health master classes, emotionally smart leadership retreats, and residential emotional wellness and trauma treatment. Miles' work at Onsite has been featured on 20/20, Good Morning America, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Dr. Phil Show, The Doctors, People, Billboard, Marie Claire, and NOW FATHOMS | AN ENNEAGRAM PODCAST! [1:45] Lightning round questions to get to know Miles[7:50] What is mental health and emotional wellness?[10:00] How does Miles approach his work amid the rise of pop psychology?[17:00] Miles' cautions regarding the pitfalls of self-help/personal development[21:00] On “crescendo culture” and the success of Onsite[27:15] Miles' talks about Internal Family Systems theory[30:05] Some practical advice: The 20/10/5 list[33:30] On clean and dirty pain[42:10] What should be in our “trauma kit”? [48:30] Miles' own experience as a father[56:15] A current challenge Miles is facing[58:30] What Miles has to say to mental health professionals and other helpersFollow Miles at www.milesadcox.com // www.experienceonsite.com —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

We continue our series on trauma and personhood with another conversation with Dr. Kristin Beasley. Dr. B is a clinical psychologist who specializes in trauma and early childhood development. Dr. B helps us clarify terms such as “victim” and “victimhood.” She provides practical insight on how to more compassionately work with those who have experienced trauma and is a wealth of wisdom on cultivating resilience. [1:00] What is victimhood? [3:40] The difference between states and. traits[9:20] Resilience is not random[10:00] A more compassionate response[14:50] On true Victim/victimhood and the limits of the terms[23:40] For those who struggle to acknowledge their victimhood[33:00] Dr. B's problem with the “hood” in “victimhood”[37:30] Resilience starts in the front end of life[38:30] If Dr. B were president…[42:15] Developing resilience and respecting those who struggle[55:45] What we can do to cultivate resilience (in ourselves and in those we help)Follow Dr B's work: https://www.drbconnections.com/ [trauma-informed care and resilience training!]—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this first episode on trauma, we interview Sharon K. Ball. Licensed therapist and enneagram professional who specializes in trauma and the enneagram. Sharon is the author of Reclaiming You: Using the Enneagram to Move from Trauma to Resilience. [1:10] Abram asks Sharon for her “top strength in her Myers-briggs finder” (?)[2:00] Clarifying some terms: trauma and resilience[4:15] The 4 Types of Trauma: Chronic, Insidious, Acute, & Complex[9:30] Big T vs. little t trauma[12:00] How important is it to label one's type of trauma?[16:10] The difference between a stressful experience and a traumatic one[22:30] On being trauma informed…and not reducing people to a type[27:40] Finding specific practices for our type[29:45] The triad of resilience/trauma resolution[33:00] The difference between an enneagram type as a coping strategy vs. a trauma response. [36:20] How knowing your type can engage your trauma work[39:05] How can we honor each other and arrive at a greater sense of unity? Follow Sharon's work: @sharonkball // www.ninepaths.com—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we reflect upon our recent conversation with singer/songwriter Andy Squyres. If you haven't listened to that episode, go check it out and then come back and reflect with us. We look forward to our next topic, trauma and personhood. Andy's Instagram post that inspired our conversation: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgUkgrYOn6M/ Follow Andy's work at https://andysquyres.com/ and listen to his music! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we're joined by singer/songwriter Andy Squyres (or “song doula” to Linz). Andy is a brilliant creative and a deep thinker who challenges our assumptions about the enneagram and the broader self help world. Andy is familiar with the enneagram but by no means a practitioner. He's the perfect guest to share much needed perspective about this work we care about so much. His observations and critiques are important for all who use the enneagram. Stick around to the end of this episode, where Andy reads an Instagram post he wrote that inspired our conversation. [2:00] Creek sets up the conversation on challenging our labels and identities with compassion & Andy's role as a critic[5:45] Universal ache and faith deconstruction[10:15] On the tension of pursuing redemption and when to draw boundaries[18:00] Andy's critiques and observations of the self help community[24:15] On the perils of the enneagram's popularity[27:30] Our inability to hold multiple possibilities at the same time[30:00] On the benefits of being on the outskirts of the enneagram world. [32:00] On the tension of personal growth and learning to appreciate what simply is[39:50] Subversion vs. aggression in challenging assumptions[51:00] On being authenticAndy's Instagram post that inspired this conversation: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgUkgrYOn6M/ Follow Andy's work at https://andysquyres.com/ and listen to his music! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Wrapping up our mini-series on aging and personhood, the Fathoms hosts reflect upon our episodes with the wonderful and wise Clare Loughrige. They also look ahead to our upcoming conversation with poet/musician Andy Squyres, who has some major and important critiques of the enneagram. Join our Marco Polo Sharecast: https://onmarcopolo.com/sharecast/dIT4N10HbBKn—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, the Fathoms hosts reflect upon our previous two episodes focused on chronic illness. If you haven't listened to our conversations with Brook Gurrad and K.J. Ramsey, stop what you're doing right now and have a listen. The hosts also ask for your help on an upcoming episode, and introduce our next topic we're exploring in this season. [1:05] Our insights gained and reflections on chronic illness and personhood. [8:00] Implications for chronic illness and our enneagram type/style, and a healthier approach to growth/development/improvement[15:00] Can people change? [16:00] PLEASE HELP US WITH OUR UPCOMING EPISODE ON EGO AND ESSENCE[19:00] Introducing our next topic: Aging and Personhood. [24:00] Aging vs. maturing[25:30] Cultural messaging for women and men regarding body imageDM us with any thoughts, ideas, or questions for our upcoming ego and essence episode. OR, leaves us a recording on SpeakPipe: www.speakpipe.com/fathomspodcast —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Interview | Aging: A Meditation on Grief & Letting Go with Clare Loughrige

In this episode, the Fathoms co-hosts, are joined by Lee Fields and Milton Stewart to celebrate Fathoms' 100th episode and to announce and exciting new partnership with the IEA as temporary hosts of the International Enneagram Association Podcast for this year's global conference. Listen as they all share what this year's theme, “Unite & Ignite,” mean to them within the Enneagram community and what they are most looking forward to at the conference.“I love the Enneagram because it's a tool for liberation.” - Milton [02:41]“In relation to what we've been building for the past three years of Fathoms, how wide and complex it is to be human, and how the Enneagram is such a beautiful tool to help us navigate that, and I'm looking forward to adding more complexity and seeing how the Enneagram stands up” -Creek [14:16]“Why is there this factioning, why is there this othering between the new guard and the old guard? What's up? And it seems like it could be fixed with two lines of dialogue. What needs to happen? And I don't believe that I'm the secret sauce that's going to fix all of that, but I believe that naming it and doing something about it and striving to have connections between people is going to be the thing that's going to do it.” -Lee [19:31]“Especially in the Enneagram space, we spend so much time looking at ourselves and I feel like this is an opportunity to really look each other in the eye and to see one another more clearly.” -Lindsey [23:34]“When I think of these United & Ignite, it makes sense to me that we have to come together to experience the fire.” -Abram [30:22]“I think some of the most meaningful conversations I've ever had have been around a campfire and I think that's a good way to approach a conference like this. It's kinda like a global campfire of Enneanerds and Enneagram professionals.” -Drew [31:52]TIMESTAMPS[00:00] Intro[01:05] This week's hosts[04:59] Icebreakers[12:13] Most excited at the IEA conference[21:08] What unite and ignite means[33:38] Rapid fire questionsConnect with us:IEA2023.comMilton Stewart:IG: @kaizencareersWeb: KaizenCareers.comWeb: Kaizen Enneagram AcademyPod: Do It For The Gram: An Enneagram PodcastSeth "Creek" Creekmore: IG: @_creekmorePod: Fathoms | An Enneagram PodcastPod: Awareness to Action Enneagram PodcastPod: Delusional Optimism with Dr. BSeth Abram:IG: @integratedenneagramPod: Fathoms | An Enneagram PodcastDrew Moser:IG:

In this episode, we have the first of an incredible 2 part conversation with enneagram author and teacher Clare Loughrige. We talk to Clare about the aging process and how it impacts the dynamics of personhood, especially the “Third Act” of life. Have a listen and be on the lookout for part 2 of this series later this week. [1:40] How Western culture exalts youthfulness, and what to make of this in light of the enneagram's popularity. [4:30] The reduction of the enneagram to listicles and the vast wisdom the enneagram truly provides[6:45] The challenge and the possibility of introducing the enneagram too early. [7:50] The transition from mentee to mentor[10:00] The key questions of life's Third Act[12:50] Clare's crash and burn moment[17:45] The fragility and wisdom that comes with being nearer to death[24:10] Discussing the “Third Acters” potential for growth and transformation[29:15] On FLOW in the Third Act of lifeFollow Claire's work: scottandclareloughrige.org. And buy her books! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

We continue the conversation on chronic illness and personhood with our friend, the brilliant author and therapist, K.J. Ramsey. K.J. offers profound and practical wisdom on suffering and chronic illness, and she's ennea-fluent. Her books include: This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering LingersThe Lord is My Courage: Stepping Through the Shadows of Fear to the Voice of LoveBook of Common Courage[1:45] What K.J. had for breakfast this morning.[2:30] Linz nerds out with KJ on all things Michigan and Tennessee[4:50] K.J.'s experience with and relationship to suffering. [9:00] K.J.'s complicated relationship with “self care” & needs as signals[12:15] K.J.'s journey as an enneagram Type 4[15:05] Pain as a witness[20:40] The importance of being brutally honest and looking inward[26:30] The importance of language (poetics) as it relates to our stories of pain and suffering[32:00] How we can redeem our language when talking about our bodies[36:00] A practical & somatic example, with Linz as volunteer, of how to have a conversation with our bodies[44:00] How to hold “positive” language (like hope) in a healthy way[48:45] Hope as a team sport[53:00] Managing emotions alongside chronic illness[1:03:00] K.J. reads an excerpt from her most recent book, The Book of Common CourageFollow K.J.'s work (and buy her books!): @kjramseywrites on social media and www.kjramsey.com—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Interview | Chronic Illness: When Health Means Standing Still with Brooke GurradIn this episode, we interview Brooke Gurrad of The Bonus Years Podcast. Brooke is an important voice in telling the story of those who live with chronic illness. She has profound wisdom to share about the dynamics of personhood for chronically ill persons and how to see and live as whole persons when life doesn't go as planned. [1:00] Brooke's favorite memory of Lindsey [3:00] A bit about The Bonus Years Podcast [8:45] On the stakes of having a podcast that isn't “easy to digest”[10:15] Brooke's story of chronic illness(es)[19:00] Navigating the enneagram, chronic illness, and the dynamics of personhood[23:45] What does it look like to see others as whole people? [27:20] How Brooke's story with chronic illness brought forward her personhood?[31:40] The people groups that the enneagram does not serve well (and her career as a bowler!)[37:15] Brooke cautions against some ableist tendencies in “personal growth”[42:00] How Brook practically approaches suffering Follow Brooke's work and the community she leads on Instagram and Facebook: @thebonusyears. Check out her coaching and writing work at www.brookegurrad.com. And listen and subscribe to her podcast, The Bonus Years, on all major podcasting platforms. —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Reflections | Race: The Bypassed and The BypassingCo-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we interview Dr. Deborah Egerton (Dr. E). Dr. E is a Diversity, Equity, & Anti-racism Specialist, Author, Executive Coach, Keynote Speaker, and Culture Transformation & Leadership Development Expert. Dr. E. brings all kinds of brilliance and new insights on the enneagram [1:40] When's the last time Dr. E's had a good belly laugh? [6:30] About Dr. E's book Know Justice, Know Peace[10:50] Dr. E's perspective as a Black woman in the enneagram space[16:40] On loneliness and the current state of the enneagram community[21:10] Dr. E's vision of a humanity mosaic[38:30] The Platinum Rule[40:40] An example of a well-intentioned but counterproductive attempt to apply the Golden Rule[45:30] How can we challenge others appropriately? [50:50] The centers of intelligence as bridge builders, healers and defendersFollow Dr. E's work : https://www.deborahegerton.com/ and buy her book Know Justice, Know Peace! —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we continue our series on race and the enneagram and interview Chichi Agorom, author of the brilliant book, The Enneagram for Black Liberation. [0:45] What's energizing Chichi right now? [3:00] The importance of considering the collective, not just the individual, when using the enneagram[7:35] A bit about Chichi's Nigerian background[9:10] What's challenging about being from a collectivist culture[11:00] The difference between individualism and individuality[14:00] What Chichi wishes people truly understood about the enneagram[18:15] The role that our armor plays in our lives[25:45] If our type/strategy is armor, is it ever ok to get rid of it? [29:30] On the concept of “centered”[33:30] On the importance and nuance of vulnerability . . . and the role privilege plays[37:50] Chichi turns the tables and asks us about our armor[49:00] What can listeners do to increase understanding of the collective? [54:50] Where can listeners find Chichi? Follow Chichi : www.chichiagorom.com and @theenneagramforblackliberation on Insta. —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we interview consultant, author, and enneagram teacher Danielle Fanfair. Danielle is full of wisdom and possesses a fierce compassion in exploring some of the more challenging aspects of race and personality. [1:15] A bit about Danielle's enneagram certification program and why she developed it. [8:45] The gaps Danielle seeks to fill in her enneagram work[12:45] How Danielle fosters safe and brave spaces in her work[15:30] On the barriers persons of color face & how the enneagram can help[19:44] How to handle a space that some find safe and others find brave[25:15] How to challenge people in effective ways[31:30] Engaging groups with both the privileged and the marginalized[36:20] Danielle's hopes for the enneagram community[41:00] Danielle's parting words of wisdomTo follow Danielle's work and sign up for any of her trainings and certifications, visit https://www.confusiontoclarity.life/ —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode, we interview Jessica Dickson. Jessica is an enneagram teacher and host of the Antiracist Enneagram Podcast. Jessica's wisdom on socialization and its impact on the enneagram is profound. Enjoy! 2:35 A bit about Jessica's work with clients3:30 A bit about Jessica's podcast: The Antiracist Enneagram Podcast6:30 Coco, Encanto, and being human8:50 The concept of socialization and its impact19:30 The nervous system and the enneagram21:20 How to help others become aware of their socialization24:45 The difference between being a White person and Whiteness29:45 Socialization and the challenge of enneagram typing36:30 An embodied way forward Follow Jessica's work: https://jessicaddickson.com/ & on insta: @jessicadickson—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Reflections | Culture & the EnneagramToday we're debriefing our last two episodes on the overlays of culture and the enneagram, sharing what we learned, and setting up what's coming next in season 4! 0:40 Why we aren't a morning show2:33 What surprised us about our conversations with Maria Jose and Chin Ai. 8:47 Contemplating the interplay between cultural influences and enneagram style13:47 What's next in our exploration of dynamics of personhood? What are our hopes for you and for ourselves as we continue together? Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth Creekmore • Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram • Follow Abram: @integratedenneagram • Follow Creek: @_creekmore • Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagram • Follow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this interview, we interview enneagram teacher Chin Ai Oh. Chin Ai lives and words in Malaysia and has a lot of wisdom to share on expanding our cultural fluency when using the enneagram. 2:00 Who is Chin Ai? 4:00 The last time Chin Ai ate Durian. 6:00 Chin Ai's enneagram origin story10:45 How Chin Ai integrates the enneagram into her career working in FinTech14:40 Differences working with the enneagram in North America vs. Malaysia19:20 What North Americans get wrong about the enneagram21:05 Chin Ai's type and her cultural overlays25:40 A few specific examples of her type and culture28:30 Chin Ai's culture and her type's lines to type 9 and type 633:45 Chin Ai's experience as a young female in Malaysian corporate culture37:55 Chin Ai's experience as a young Malaysian female in the United States42:30 How can we use the enneagram in a more unifying fashion? Follow Chin Ai's work: @ennethistogether [https://www.instagram.com/ennethistogether/]—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Maria Jose Munita - @mjmunitamjmunita.comCo-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmore Follow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this conversational episode, Abram, Creek, and Lindsey discuss the prototype, archetype, and stereotype expressions of personality, and how it connects to our Season 4 theme: dynamics of personhood. 12:45 Prototype - What comes to mind, what we mean14:10 Archetype - What comes to mind, what we mean17:45 Stereotype - What we mean & how it harms. 22:10 Thoughts on avoiding stereotypes27:40 On the pitfalls on relying on subtypes & wings too heavily30:30 What do we practically do with this? 38:45 The concepts of apophatic and cataphatic—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Lindsey Marks, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Season Four is here, friends! We are so excited to share these beautiful, vulnerable, and inspiring conversations with you. This season is tapping into something really special in our hearts, challenging us to grow profoundly. We hope you love this season as much as we do. Thanks for coming along with us! Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailheadFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Season Four is here, friends! We are so excited to share these beautiful, vulnerable, and inspiring conversations with you. This season is tapping into something really special in our hearts, challenging us to grow profoundly. Here's a teaser to get you hyped about what's in store! We hope you love this season as much as we do.Thanks for coming along with us! Song: "King's Castle" by Kazi JayKazi: @kazi.jayFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @_creekmoreFollow Drew: @typetrailheadFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Connect with Scott!Scott's InstagramSway LeadershipFathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Quotes to Uncover the Layers (Part 2)Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Bonus: Quotes to Uncover the Layers [Part 1]In this bonus episode of Fathoms, Lindsey & the Seths talk about Abram's recent Instagram series [@IntegratedEnneagram] on quotes for each type to uncover the layers of our personality. Abram shares the quote and then the hosts share how that quote resonates with their own type structures. They hosts also try to impersonate Drew…and fail miserably. 5:20 Type 1 quote10:21 Type 2 quote19:00 Type 3 quote26:15 Type 4 quote—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Lindsey: @lindseyfaithdm

Bonus | When the Enneagram Becomes a Religion

In this bonus episode of Fathoms, we talked to the creators of the innovative enneagram resource, “Enneaflip,” Scott Allender & Ashlee Sikorski. Scott and Ashlee together form Sway Leadership, a leadership development and emotional intelligence consulting firm. 1:05 Who are Ashlee [Type 4] and Scott [Type 3]?6:00 How did Ashlee and Scott invite the enneagram into their lives?11:20 Something surprising/counterintuitive about your type 16:30 About Ashlee's Nine Shapes Project19:15 What the heck is an Enneaflip? 24:00 What's challenging about introducing the enneagram to orgs & and what's limiting about using the enneaflip? --Follow Scott on insta @eqenneagram Check out Scott and Ashlee's work at Sway Leadership: https://www.swayleadership.com/Check out the Enneaflip here: https://www.swayleadership.com/enneaflip Check out Ashlee's Nine Shapes Project here: https://nineshapes.co/ —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Linsdey: @lindseyfaithdm

Merry Christmas from the Fathoms hosts (and Abram's 5 month old son “Bear)! In this bonus episode we talk about all things Christmas. 2:50 When does Christmas start?5:00 Our holiday traditions8:55 The things that get into the spirit of Christmas. 11:00 Our fond childhood Christmas memories16:15 Christmas and grief/pain20:40 We finally talk about the enneagram24:00 The power of cultural myths31:00 On disenchantment and re-enchantment—Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Linsdey: @lindseyfaithdm

In this episode we're excited to welcome back enneagram and addiction expert Michael Naylor to talk about his recent book: The Alchemy of the Enneagram in Transforming Addiction2:15 The hardest part of writing the book. 5:00 Michael's intended audience(s) for the book. 8:15 How the enneagram offers additional insight into addiction. 12:30 Why he chose to use “alchemy” in the title.16:05 Can you use the enneagram in a non-conscious way? 18:00 Creek's sad amazon tale19:00 Re: the concept of “transforming addiction”23:15 Why do certain people struggle with addictions and others don't? 25:30 Any wisdom on using the levels of health?29:00 What Michael is most proud of in the book. Find Michael's book wherever you order books online! Check out Michael's website: www.enneagrammaine.com —Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”—Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew MoserProduction/Editing: Seth CreekmoreFollow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagramFollow Abram: @integratedenneagramFollow Creek: @creekmoremusicFollow Drew: @typetrailenneagramFollow Linsdey: @lindseyfaithdm