Where Do We Go From Here

Jess and Devi are back with a lot of thoughts about why Gen Z men are now more religious than Gen Z women. The episode also features the thoughts of our fabulous partners.  Like this style of episode? Join us in Patreon for a unique News & Views episode every single month.  Show Notes In a First Among Christians, Young Men Are More Religious Than Women (NY Times)

In this episode Devi shares what's next for the show.  Sign up as a partner to hear weekly episodes of The Jess & Devi Show  Stay connected on Instagram and Twitter  Beth Hope's portfolio

Trigger warning: This episode contains stories of racial violence and sexualized racial violence.  In this episode we deep dive Purity Culture's origin story, and its connection with America's racial history.  Full show notes here. Talk to us on Instagram and Twitter Want to talk about this episode? Join our partners in The Big Debrief on Tuesday March 26 at 9pm EST and Wednesday March 27 at noon in Melbourne.  Sara Moslener is a lecturer in the Department of Philosophy, Anthropology, and Religion at Central Michigan University where she teaches courses on the history of religious and racial discrimination in the United States. She has been studying evangelical purity culture for over 15 years and has numerous publications including the book Virgin Nation: Sexual Purity and American Adolescence (Oxford University Press: 2015). She hosts the new series Pure White: Sexual Purity and White Supremacy with Axis Mundi Media. Connect with her on Twitter and Substack. 

In this episode we talk about love after divorce as Haverlee shares her story of a marriage breakdown, living alone, dating, and finding new love. It's part of our three part series. You can find the first two episodes here: 142: What If Marriage Doesn't Make You Happy Or Holy? 143: 7 Signs That Your Marriage Can be Saved Partner with us for $3/month to hear an uncut conversation before anyone else does. Professor Sara Moslener takes us back to school to uncover the connection between purity culture and white supremacy in the US. She also talks about the recent Alabama Supreme Court ruling on embryos and how that connects to purity culture rhetoric of the past.  Follow us for more on Instagram and Twitter Full show notes and transcript here 

There are characteristics and qualities of relationships that lead to better outcomes, and Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to talk about seven of them. If you're concerned about your marriage or have qestions about the person you're dating or engaged to, this episode is for you.  Listen to our previous episode to hear more about divorce in the United States. Full show notes here (including a full transcript of Dr. Camden and Devi's interview). Follow us on Instagram and Twitter to get a recap of the 7 signs.  Partners get to talk about this episode and more on February 27 (9pm EST)/ 28 (1pm AEDT). Join us for $3/month to get last week's romcom recap of Crazy, Stupid, Love. Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed clinical psychologist with over 13 years of experience as a therapist, college professor, and supervisor. She owns a private therapy practice focusing on women's issues, relationships, sexuality, trauma, and spirituality. Connect with her on Instagram

In this episode we deep dive divorce with journalist Lyz Lenz. We talk about: why it's so hard to tell the truth about difficult marriages how the labor of women sustains western marriage political decisions that could make marriage easier for everyone Follow us on Instagram and Twitter to keep talking. Full show notes here Partner with us for $3/month (USD) to hear Jess & Devi talk about recent revelations about beloved author Elisabeth Elliot's abusive third marriage.  Lyz Lenz is an author and journalist living in Iowa. This American Ex-Wife is her third book. She also writes the newsletter Men Yell at Me about personhood and politics in America.  

In this episode, Hillary McBride guides us toward how to see our body as a resource, and she gives us practical, free tools to help us reconnect with our bodies. Full show notes here Partner with us for $3/month to hear the full, uncut version of this converation and get episodes of The Jess and Devi Show Hillary L. McBride (PhD, University of British Columbia) is a registered psychologist, an award-winning researcher, and the host of the Other People's Problems podcast. She has a private practice in Victoria, British Columbia, and is a sought-after speaker and retreat leader who specializes in embodiment. McBride's work has been recognized by the American Psychological Association and the Canadian Psychological Association. She is the author of The Wisdom of Your Body and Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image, and coeditor of Embodiment and Eating Disorders. Learn more at www.hillarylmcbride.com. Connect with Hillary on Instagram.

Are you a subscriber? Have your say about this show in our listener survey! In this episode we dig into the pain points of being unpartnered when everything is getting more expensive. What's the mental load that unpartnered women carry about housing and job security? And what can people do that helps?  Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter Partner with us to hear our recap of the Christmas movie Best. Christmas. Ever! and join The Big Debrief call on December 26 (US)/ 27 (Australia) if you want to talk more about this episode. 

In this episode our co-founder Jessica Van Der Wyngaard tells us the bittersweet news that she's stepping down as co-host of the show and why it's the right time to go.  Partner with us to hear Purity Culture News & Views next week, plus a fun Christmas rom com recap later in December.  Are you in Melbourne? Join Sheila Gregoire and Devi at St. Silas' Anglican Church on Wednesday, December 6 from 1-3pm. You can find St. Silas at 99 Bridport St, Albert Park.  Full show notes here

In this episode we explore what it means to lose our faith and community because our beliefs, or sometimes our very selves, put us at odds with the expectations of others. Can there still be a spiritual home on the other side?  Plus there's a special announcement about a new book club featuring Holy Runaways. DM @wheredowegopod to get Keara's email address if you want to join. Partner with us for $3/month (USD) to hear Purity Culture News & Views this week.  Full show notes here (plus transcript) Matthias Roberts (he/him) is a psychotherapist specializing in religious and spiritual trauma and the author of Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion and  Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms. He hosts Queerology: A Podcast on Belief and Being and holds two master's degrees from The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, one in theology and culture, and one in counseling psychology. His work has been featured by O: The Oprah Magazine, Bustle, Woman's Day, Sojourners, The Seattle Times, and many others. He lives in Seattle. Connect with  Matthias on Instagram  

Andy Stanley's megachurch, North Point, held a conference to equip parents of LGBTQ+ youth and young adults to love and accept their kids, and soon after conservative gatekeepers accused Stanley of abandoning historic Christian doctrine. This episode discusses North Point's method and asks the question: Is it a blueprint for churches to follow? We consider: North Point's engagement with the LGBTQ+ community for the past 10 years an affirming pastor's perspective on the conference will evangelicals handle LGBTQ+ affirmation eventually the way they deal with divorce today  a Side B perspective on Stanley's sermon "slippery slopes" Full episode show notes here (interview transcripts as well). Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter. Partner with us to hear the uncut interview with David Bennett. Plus you'll get News & Views and a chance to chat about this episode on Zoom at the end of the month.  Zach W. Lambert is the Lead Pastor and founder of Restore Austin, a church in urban Austin, Texas. He is also the co-founder of the Post Evangelical Collective--a group of pastors, artists, and leaders committed to full inclusion, holistic justice, deep and wide formation, a gracious posture, and the Way of Jesus. Additionally, Zach serves on the boards of Restore Houston (a church plant he helped launch), Hub Garage (a non-profit for single moms), the Austin Church Planting Network, and the Multi-Faith Neighbors Network. Connect with Zach on Twitter and Instagram. You can connect with Restore Austin on TikTok and Youtube. Dr. David Bennett is a visiting theologian at Reality San Francisco, a member of the Archbishop of Canterbury's College of Evangelists and Postdoctoral Research Fellow at the Faculty of Theology and Religion. David is a graduand and recently completed his DPhil (2023), entitled ‘Queering the Queer: An Exploration of How Gay Celibate Asceticism Can Renew and Inform the Role of Desire in Contemporary Anglican Theology.' From Sydney, Australia originally, he has lived in Oxford for the last decade. Author of the memoir, A War of Loves: The Unexpected Story of a Gay Activist Discovering Jesus (Zondervan, 2018). Connect with David on Instagram and Twitter.

Annie Parsons is having a baby, and she's an unpartnered, 41-year-old woman in middle America who grew up in Purity Culture. Yes, we have questions. Her answers tell a complex, beautiful story about what it's like to gain agency, build community, and the dare to hope for a miracle. We talk about: ditching dating and pursuing motherhood "insurance against regret" gaining financial stability as a single woman the long road of navigating fertility questions Partner with us to hear a fresh Purity Culture News & Views episode this week. $3/month (USD) gets you in and there are romcom recaps plus a monthly zoom call with other partners. Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter.  Full transcript here Annie Parsons is a single woman in Kansas City who, after years of dating and hoping for marriage, decided to pursue having a child on her own. Many twists and turns later, through a fertility process, she is now expecting a baby boy any day now. This is obviously a non-traditional path to motherhood, especially for one who grew up immersed in the purity culture of the 90s, so she wanted to have a conversation about what it took to make this decision, from the practical to the spiritual. Connect with her on Instagram.

Anna McGahan is an Australian actress and storyteller who found God in the most radical of ways. Baptised into the Pentecostal tradition, she gave up everything to follow Jesus only to find that life in the church wasn't quite what it seemed.  In this episode we discuss: meeting God and meeting the church, it's not the same finding agency in celibacy losing queerness to find God recovering a sense of equilibrium and self Partner with us to hear The Jess & Devi Show and our take on the 1999 romcom She's All That (spoiler: it's not all that). Join for $3/month (USD).  Anna McGahan is an actor, author, screenwriter, playwright and poet. Anna's work prioritises a defiant female gaze to explore experiences of embodiment, motherhood, sexuality and spirituality. She is the author of the Vogel Prize-winning novel, Immaculate, a book of poetry about motherhood, Skin, and the memoir, Metanoia. She lives in Meanjin (Brisbane), with her two young daughters. Subscribe to her Substack here.

The evangelical message for girls was all about virginity, naivete, and silence, and millenial women are paying the price for it. "She Deserves Better" gets into what went wrong but also gives us a playbook for how to do better.  We talk about: the impact of modesty teaching what happens when girls are told they talk too much the importance of sex ed Full show notes here Partner with us to hear Jess and Devi's trip to a sex shop in Melbourne. We read out product descriptions and give our honest opinion about a (surprising) number of sea creature-like devices. Get it for $3/month (USD). Sheila Wray Gregoire is the face behind BareMarrige.com, the largest single-blogger marriage blog. She's also an award-winning author of nine books, including The Great Sex Rescue, and a sought-after speaker. Connect with Sheila on Instagram. Rebecca Gregoire Lindenbach is a psychology graduate, Sheila's daughter, and the author of Why I Didn't Rebel. Working alongside her husband, Connor, she develops websites focusing on building Jesus-centered marriages and families. Connect with Rebecca on Instagram.

We're mixing faith and friskiness and spilling divine secrets on tasteful toys. Get ready to bless your bedside drawer with a touch of sex-educator-approved delights. Dr. Celeste Holbrook is back with the the quality sex education we need after purity culture life.  Partner with us to hear our thoughts on the Barbie movie, plus you'll get a ticket to The Big Debrief at the end of the month and more!  Full shown notes here (including a transcript of our interview wit Celeste) Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sexologist and speaker who helps her clients evolve into the people they were created to be, in and outside of the bedroom. She speaks on a variety of topics from sex drive and sexual shame to painful intercourse, purity culture and more. Her mission is to provide safe spaces for people to talk about sex Dr. Celeste has been featured in Women's Health Magazine, Mothers of Preschoolers, Reader's Digest and more. Connect with Celeste on Instagram and take her classes online.  

Purity Culture graduates left the movement with our feet stuck to chewed up gum, our fingers locked into purity rings, and our hearts (supposedly) irreparably broken. But these were images and metaphors given to us by an evangelicalism broken by its own damaged stories, images, and metaphors. This episode gets into what went wrong, and how we can start to make it right.  Join us in Patreon to hear about deconstruction in evangelical history. Join today and get a ticket to our monthly Zoom call happening on July 27 (9pm EST) and 28 (11am AEDT). It's $3/month USD, and you get romcom recaps, purity culture news & views, and more! The Evangelical Imagination: How Stories, Images and Metaphors Created a Culture in Crisis16: Read Better Books (with Karen Swallow Prior) Karen Swallow Prior (PhD, SUNY Buffalo) is the award-winning author of On Reading Well: Finding the Good Life through Great Books. She is a frequent speaker, a monthly columnist at Religion News Service, and has written for Christianity Today, The Atlantic, the Washington Post, the New York Times, and Vox. She is a contributing editor for Comment, a founding member of the Pelican Project, a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum, and a senior fellow at the International Alliance for Christian Education. Connect with Karen on Instagram and Twitter

While "Sound of Freedom" rakes in the profits in the US box office, there are still children in exploitative circumstances. Are search and rescue missions the most effective way of rehabilitating them? We bring you a Christian anti-trafficking expert who has seen the harmful impacts of well-intentioned evangelicals and knows that there's a better way forward. We talk about: how this movie harms anti trafficking work the trafficking of children happens primarily through exploitative and forced labor how our dollars fund child slavery (hint: check your pantry) evidence-based models for successful anti trafficking work  organizations you can trust with your dollars  Full show notes here  (with all the organization links!) Dr. Lauren Pinkston is a public academic, teaching through published writing, nonprofit coaching, facilitated workshops, and a newly released podcast. She holds a PhD in International Family and Community Studies from Clemson University. Previous to working in academia, Lauren lived in Southeast Asia researching the human trafficking crisis and starting businesses to employ survivors. She now consults for anti-trafficking organizations and small business startups, helping them institute trauma policies into healing-centered workplaces. Lauren is the President of Kindred Exchange, a non-profit focused on establishing more ethical missions practices and expanding jobs in the Global South. Connect with Lauren on Instagram  

"Christians need to face the truth of who we are." That's what Professor Iwan Russell-Jones told us, and it's why we took a hard look at Hillsong through the FX/Hulu docuseries "The Secrets of Hillsong." In this episode we talk about church as the show and what it is costing us. We also talk about: the docuseries as Carl Lentz's redemption vehicle the cost of spiritual abuse should church be charging money for attendance and paying volunteers? Full show notes here Instagram Twitter Partner with us to hear our romcom recap of 13 Going on 30 and get the full conversation with Professor Iwan Russell-Jones plus more partner perks. 

Trigger Warning: This is a conversation about Frank Houston's three-decade history of sexually abusing children, and there are many references to the subject. Please proceed with caution if this topic is triggering for you. There are resources in the show notes about healing after trauma. Frank Houston was a serial sexual abuser of children, but he walked off the church stage into forced retirement to the sound of a standing ovation. After his son, Brian Houston, knew about at least once incidence of molestation. We discuss this sad, enraging event and the way "The Secrets of Hillsong" brings together the different pieces of information.  Full show notes here Join us for The Big Debrief on June 30 at 11 am (Melbourne time), June 29 (9pm EST/8pm CST) to talk about the past month of Hillsong stories and your church stories. Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter

We dive deep into the shocking downfall of Carl Lentz, former pastor of Hillsong New York, and ask questions about the supposedly eye-opening revelations from "The Secrets of Hillsong" documentary. A former member of Hillsong NYC joins us to uncover what the documentary misses, the culture of celebrity pastors, and the consequences of blind faith in broken institutions.  Full show notes here (including a transcript of the whole show) Partner with us to hear our conversation with documentarian Professor Iwan Russell-Jones on why it's important for Christians to face the truth.  Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter

What is true about the global megachurch Hillsong? There's a new docuseries out from Vanity Fair and FX trying to get to it. But do they get it right? Starting this week Jess and Devi recap the episodes for those of you in Australia who can't watch it yet and for those of you in the US who need a debrief. We've got you.  Full show notes here Want more? Our partners get episodes weekly, including this week's deep dive into documentary filmaking. If you want some tools for how to watch this documentary and others, Jess has all the tips for you.  Connect with us on Twitter and Instagram

Trigger Warning: This episode contains references to spiritual, religious, and sexual abuse. Please proceed with caution. What do we do when a spiritual hero is accused of abusive practices? Jess and Devi were both impacted by Soul Survivor founder, the Rev Canon Mike Pilavachi, and in this raw and real episode, they process the recent news about the investigation the Church of England announced. Want more? This week's partner-only episode of Purity Culture News & Views has the latest updates on the situation with Mike Pilavachi as well as more on how to deal with news about fallen Christian leaders. Sign up for $3/month to get it as well as romcom recaps and a ticket to the Big Debrief.  Full show notes here

At some point in childhood you first learnt about sex.  This might have been in the form of "the sex talk" from your parents. Or you might have heard it elsewhere.  In this episode we reflect on that sex talk from parents and from a parent and child's perspective. Join Jessica and her mum Caren for this special discussion between a mother and daughter around the sex talk.  What do we remember about that? What was said? What should be said? What would we do differently?  Our Instagram community also had a lot to share on this topic! Jessica shares their thoughts across these questions as well.  See show note links HERE. 

Ever wonder what it's like to gather with a group of strangers to talk about purity culture? Our partners get to experience it every month in The Big Debrief. And now you get to listen in. In this episode you get a taste of the warmth, wisdom, and fun that's in our monthly zoom conversations.  Join us this month on April 27 (in the US) at 9pm EST and April 28 (in Australia) at 11am to talk about all the things. 

Join us for an insightful discussion with Laura Tremaine, author of The Life Council, as we explore the challenges of making and keeping friends in adulthood. From busy schedules to changes in life stage, we uncover the top reasons why building meaningful connections as grown-ups can be tough, and share practical tips to overcome them. Full show notes here Partner with us to hear a conversation with journalist Bekah McNeel, author of Bringing Up Kids When The Church Let's You Down. Partners get romcom recaps and Purity Culture News & Views plus a ticket to the Big Debrief.  Laura Tremaine is a writer, avid reader, and enthusiastic podcaster. She is the creator and host of the podcast "10 Things To Tell You." She is also the author of Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. (published February 2021), and her second book The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs publishes April 2023. Laura lives in Los Angeles with her husband and two children. Follow Laura on Facebook & Instagram

In this episode for our partners, we delve into the ups and downs of Bridget Jones' Diary. From its charming wit and relatable protagonist to its problematic themes, fat phobia, and single-shaming, we take a critical look at this iconic piece of chick-lit and explore its lasting impact on pop culture and female representation.   Want to hear the rest? Join us in patreon for $3/month (USD). 

We delve into the world of Evangelical parenting with journalist Bekah McNeel. From perfectionism to purity culture, we uncover the the impact of Evangelical parenting on children's emotional, mental, and spiritual development. This is a sneak peak but you can listen to the full conversation when you partner with us for $3/month (USD). You'll also get Purity Culture News & Views, a romcom recap, and a ticket to the Big Debrief where you can share your thoughts with other like minded people.  Bekah McNeel is a journalist, wife, and mother of two. She's the author of Bringing Up Kids When The Church Let's You Down. Her work has appeared in Christianity Today, Sojourners, Relevant, The Texas Tribune, ESPN's The Undefeated, The Christian Science Monitor, Texas Public Radio, and elsewhere. In addition to pieces about parenting, she writes about education, immigration, and faith communities-as well as the occasional op-ed calling the American evangelical church to lay down its idols of White supremacy and patriarchy. Connect with Bekah on Twitter and Instagram  

Trigger warning: this episode contains a short discussion of childhood sexual abuse. Please proceed with caution. Purity Culture was bad for men, too. In this episode Zachary Wagner joins us to share his story combined with his theological study on how to build a non-toxic masculinity. We discuss: how purity culture dehumanized men growing up from boys to adult men strategies to help you grow Full show notes here (plus a transcript!) Partner with us for $3/month (USD) to listen to this week's Purity Culture News & Views episode on Hillsong's latest legal battle in Australia. Plus we talk about the Apple+ show Shrinking and more.  Zachary Wagner is an ordained minister and a DPhil (PhD) candidate in New Testament at the University of Oxford. He also serves as the editorial director of the Center for Pastor Theologians. Zach's academic research focuses on the concept of reward in the Letters of Paul and Matthew's Gospel. HIs first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality is being released with IVP in April, 2023. Zach lives in Oxford, England with his wife and three children. Follow Zach on Twitter

This episode is for all the people who were told your virginity was the most important thing about you. In this episode, we get into the meaning of virginity to evangelicals, the history, what we were told the Bible says, what the Bible actually says, and of course, we talk about where we can go from here.  Full show notes here Join us for $3/month (USD) to get the full conversations with historian Sara Moslener and biblical scholar Karen Keen as well as romcom recaps, purity culuture news & views, and a ticket to the Big Debrief.  Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter Sara Moslener is a lecturer in the Department of Philosophy, Anthropology, and Religion at Central Michigan University where she teaches courses on the history of religious and racial discrimination in the United States. She has been studying evangelical purity culture for over 15 years and has numerous publications including the book Virgin Nation: Sexual Purity and American Adolescence (Oxford University Press: 2015) which demonstrates how sexual purity campaigns and rhetoric have been used by white Protestants since the 19th century to obtain greater political power and cultural influence. Follow Sara on Twitter. Karen R. Keen is a biblical scholar and spiritual care provider at The Redwood Center for Spiritual Care and Education. She works to make scholarship accessible to lay leaders and the public, particularly as it relates to the intersection of Scripture, faith, and culture. Karen has taught biblical and theological studies in both academic and church settings. Trained as a spiritual director in the Ignatian tradition, she also provides spiritual care through groups and retreats. Karen is the author of The Jesus Way: Practicing the Ignatian Spiritual Exercises,  Scripture, Ethics, and the Possibility of Same-Sex Relationships, and  The Word of a Humble God: The Origins, Inspiration, and Interpretation of Scripture. She is currently working on a book to be released in 2024 on sex and the Christian life. Karen earned her M.S. in education (counseling) from Western Oregon University, M.A. in exegetical theology from Western Seminary, and Th.M. in biblical studies from Duke Divinity School. Follow Karen on Twitter.

In this partner-only episode, we're dusting off our VHS tapes (or maybe just streaming it online) and rewatching the classic rom-com, Sleepless in Seattle. Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan stole our hearts in this movie over 25 years ago, but how does it hold up in 2023? Is it still as charming and romantic as we remember, or does it feel dated and cheesy? Grab your tissues and your apple peeler, and join us for this hilarious and heartwarming trip down memory lane. Who knows, you may even fall in love with Sleepless in Seattle all over again. Partners get this episode plus a ticket to the Big Debrief next week on zoom! Join us to chat about all the things, and get our entire back catalogue of episodes and new weekly podcast episodes about purity culture news and views, exclusive guest interviews, and more. Get it for $3/month (USD)                

If you thought bad evangelical sex books were a thing of the 80s and 90s, guess again. Last week The Gospel Coalition lit the interwebs on fire by publishing an excerpt from an upcoming book by one of their (now former) fellows. This conversation untangles the sloppy reading of Ephesians 5, disturbing Roman Catholic roots, and what happens when we misuse biblical metaphors.  Partner with us for $3/month to join us for The Big Debrief, a zoom call where we discuss all the things you heard in this episode and more. You also get romcom recaps, Purity Culture News & Views, and special partner-only episodes. Full show notes here Amy Peeler is Associate Professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and Associate Rector at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Geneva, IL. She is author of Women and the Gender of God (Eerdmans, 2022), You Are My Son”: The Family of God in the Epistle to the Hebrews (T&T Clark, 2014), and co-author with Patrick Gray of Hebrews: An Introduction and Study Guide (T&T Clark, 2020). Follow Amy on Twitter.  Rebekah Mui is a PhD student researching empire, Christian anarcho-pacifism, and postcolonial Anabaptism at Virginia Tech. As editor of KingdomOutpost.org, she engages Anabaptist thought with issues like Christian nationalism and patriarchal abuses in the wider Christian world. Read Rebekah's work at: Part 1: Lust, Love and the Doctrine of Two Kingdoms,  Part 2: The Violence of Lust and Pornography  Part 3: Sexual Sin, Purity, and Bearing One Another's Burdens. Follow Rebekah on Twitter Andrew T. Draper (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is founding teaching pastor at Urban Light Community Church and the author of A Theology of Race and Place, co-author of Disabling Leadership, editor of Christian Mission and Poverty, and has authored numerous articles on race, disability, and the church, including contributing a chapter to Can "White" People Be Saved? Follow Andrew on Twitter Christy Hemphill is an educator trained in linguistics who supports minority language Scripture translation, literacy, and language development efforts in Indigenous communities in Southern Mexico with SIL. She is currently working on an editorial team that is developing a translators' resource for identifying conceptual metaphors implicit in the figurative language of the Psalms. Follow Christy on Twitter   Bekah Mason (ThM, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) has spent much of her adult life advocating for those on the margins of the church—sexual and racial minorities, foster and adoptive families, and abuse survivors. She is currently the Executive Director of Revoice and a founding member of The Pelican Project, and lives with her two kids and an absurd number of pets in Chattanooga, TN. Follow Bekah on Twitter.            

Ready to take center stage? In this episode, we dissect the problems with the 2000 cult classic dance movie, Center Stage. From unrealistic depictions of relationships to cringe-worthy dialogue, we'll break down the issues with this beloved flick. Join us for an entertaining critique of one of the most iconic dance movies of all time. Only partners get to hear the full episode, so join us for $3/month (USD).

Jess and Devi look back at their teenage years and wonder what if... we hadn't kissed dating goodbye. We talk about: what it's like to not get asked out our first dates regrets wisdom we learned along the way what YOU would tell your younger self about dating Full show notes here (so many links about dating and app dating) Follow us on Instagram and Twitter Partner with us to hear our romcom recap next week - Center Stage. It's a ballet drama with a lot to say about romance, body image, and power. Get it here for $3/month (USD). It's coming on Monday!

Kendall Vanderslice is with us to talk about her upcoming book By Bread Alone, and this conversation is all about hunger, and the way our physical hunger for food mirrors sexuality, the distortion in our culture (and Christian culture) around hunger and women. This episode is exclusively for partners, but you get to hear a sneak peak today. Get the full conversation for $3/month. Show Notes: By Bread Alone: A Baker's Reflections on Hunger, Longing, and the Goodness of God (Preorder Amazon) Kendall's Podcast Visit Kendall Vanderslice's Edible Theology website Visit Kendall Vanderslice's website Facebook | Instagram | Twitter Kendall Vanderslice is a baker, writer, and speaker, as well as the founder of the Edible Theology Project, a ministry that connects the Communion table to the kitchen table. She is a graduate of Wheaton College (BA Anthropology), Boston University (MLA Gastronomy), and Duke Divinity School (Master of Theological Studies). Her bylines include Christianity Today, Bitter Southerner, Christian Century, Religion News Service, and Faith & Leadership, as well as her book We Will Feast (Eerdmans 2019). Kendall lives in Durham, North Carolina, with her big-eared beagle named Strudel, where she teaches workshops on bread baking as a spiritual practice. Visit her online at kendallvanderslice.com.

This is for anyone who feels like they don't belong in church or among white evangelicals. Journalist Sara Billups traces the question - "How did we get here?" - by looking at the impact of the culture wars and consumerism on a generation of white evangelicals. And she helps us take steps home. We talk about what is an orphaned believer and how did we get here the dignity of choice a propehtic imagination for the future Full show notes Partner with us to hear Jess & Devi's discuss Purity Culture News this week - Pamela Anderson has a new memoir (and so does Jinger Duggar Vuolo). Marie Kondo's house is messier than we thought?! Purity culture in Australia plus some shows and a movie you should definitely be watching. Get it for $3/USD a month! Sara Billups is a Seattle-based writer and cultural commentator whose work has appeared in the New York Times, Christianity Today, and more. Sara is completing her Doctor of Ministry in the Sacred Art of Writing at the Peterson Center for the Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary. She works to help wavering Christians remain steadfast through cultural storms and continues to hope for the flourishing of the Church amid deep political and cultural division in America.

"Clueless" is the romcom that started the flood of high school coming of age movies in the 90s and early 00s, but what do we think about it today? You get a sneak peak of what our partners get to hear this week. To hear the rest, join us for $3/month! It'll get you a ticket to our monthly zoom call next week on Tuesday at 9pm EST and Wednesday 1pm AEDT. 

You get to hear a sneak peak of our conversation about Prince Harry's first time - what's the difference between how our culture talks about the first sexual experiences of men and women? SPOILER - we think there's a difference.  Want to hear the full conversation? Join our partners in patreon to hear about low libido after babies, plus all of Jess' recommendations about what you should be watching next. 

Jess and Devi are finishing 2022 out with some big announcements about what's next for the show! Plus we also discuss: changes in opinion about gay marriage evangelicals' favorite heresies and why purity culture "helps" "Harry & Meghan" - is it a documentary or PR? We have a lot of thoughts Full show notes here Partner with us to hear our take on "The Holiday." Can women be single during the holidays and be happy? Is love addiction real? Can Jack Black be a romantic lead? We have so many thoughts, and you can hear them for $3/month (USD). Don't forget that the only episodes we'll be creating in January will be for partners, so now's a great time to sign up if you've been on the fence.  Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter

Christmas is almost here, and we think it's a perfect time to think about a woman's body and the story it tells about who God is. If God could occupy a woman's body for nine months before Jesus' birth, maybe we can begin to untangle what this might mean for our lives today. Dr. Christy Bauman joins us to talk womb theology and manger theology - it's a story about God and likely one you haven't heard of before.  We discuss: the impact of purity culture how a woman's body points to God what breasts, menstruation, wombs, and more say about the divine Trigger warning: There is discussion of infertility and miscarriage in this conversation. Full show notes here Become a partner to hear Devi & Kelly talk about masturbation, desire when you're celibate, and more (plus next week is our final Green Room for 2022). It's $3/month (USD) for bonus episodes and a ticket to the Green Room. Dr. Christy Bauman is committed to helping women come into their true voice. She has a podcast entitled Womaneering and she offers storywork consulting, womaneering weekends, and marriage intensives with her husband Andrew Bauman through their organization, Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. Andrew and Christy host Therapy Shorts podcast for couples. She is the author and producer of her works: The Sexually Healthy Woman, Theology of the Womb, Womaneering Perpetual Calendar, A Brave Lament, and the award-winning Documentary: A Brave Lament. She is a psychotherapist and author who focuses on the female body, sexuality, and theology. Christy's work can be found at christybauman.com, and you can connect with her on Instagram.

What do you do when your child comes out? What are the next steps? This is for any parent regardless of what you believe; this episode will give you the tools you need to create a nurturing environment for your children so that they know they are safe and unconditionally loved. We discuss: being safe early what to say when your child says, "I'm gay" how to communicate with kids who don't want to talk about it sex ed for LGBTQ kids Become a partner to hear this week's Purity Culture News episode - Devi talks through the Respect for Marriage Act, apps being used to find friends, and a new law in Indonesia.  Full Show Notes Here Candice Czubernat has been a therapist for 17 years and is the founder of the LGBTQ affirming counseling and coaching practice, The Christian Closet as well as the teletherapy organization Progressive Christian Counseling.   Candice is a graduate of The Moody Bible Institute and The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology.   She identifies as a lesbian and a Christian.  She lives in a small mountain town in southern California with her wife, the love of her life, Crystal, and their 8-year-old boy/girl twins Deacon and Dylan. Connect with Candice on Twitter and Instagram. 

A sex educator is in the house, and she's taking us back to school for the education most of us never got. Erica Smith founded the Purity Culture Dropout™️ Program to equip people like us with information and education that is "accurate, queer inclusive, trauma informed, compassionate, and comprehensive." We discuss: why sex education is more than preventing negative health outcomes what happens when we pathologize all things sex related all things masturbation sex toys and sex shops Full show notes here Join us in patreon to hear Jess & Devi relive the romcom, Notting Hill. Also coming next week, Devi and Kelly debrief this conversation on sex ed and masturbation. It's $3/month (USD) and you get three episodes a month plus a ticket to the Green Room where you get to meet others in the community.  Erica Smith (she/her) is an award winning sexuality educator and consultant with over 20 years of experience. She has provided comprehensive sex education and advocacy to young women and LGBTQ+ youth in Philadelphia's juvenile justice system, worked in abortion care, and supported HIV+ and transgender adolescents and their families. In 2019, she developed the Purity Culture Dropout™️ Program to help people learn all of the sex education that they missed growing up in purity culture- sex ed that is accurate, queer inclusive, trauma informed, compassionate, and comprehensive. Erica lives in Philadelphia with her partner and house full of rescue animals. Connect with Erica on Instagram

It's no secret - the people who designed purity culture inteded it to benefit white, male, and straight people. What was unsaid was that purity culture was also about a kind of body, a body that had all the standard abilities. Dr. Amy Kenny disrupts the story with her life and work as a disability justice scholar and advocate. Could it be we've misunderstood who we are and who God is all along?  We talk about: the overlap between purity culture and the experience of disabled people maybe God isn't just "strong" what is the bodymind what happens when we add the disabled experience to the sexuality conversation Join us for an exclusive conversation with Amy about disability in the church - should we have prayer ministry for healing? What's the difference between curing and healing? It's exclusive for our partners, and you can hear it and new episodes weekly for $3/month (USD).  Full show notes here Amy Kenny (PhD, University of Sussex) is a disabled scholar whose research focuses on medical and bodily themes in literature. She is a Shakespeare lecturer at the University of California, Riverside, and is on the editorial board of Shakespeare Bulletin. Kenny is a member and scribe of the Freedom Road Global Writers' Group hosted by Lisa Sharon Harper and has written for Sojourners about disability in the church. She serves on the mayor's Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Task Force in her home city, coordinates support for people experiencing homelessness, and is colaunching Jubilee Homes OC, a permanent supportive housing initiative in her local community. Connect with her on Twitter and Instagram

Embodiment is a popular buzz word in therapy and spirituality circles, but does it have something for Christians and those coming out of a Christian background? Dr. Hillary McBride joins us to figure it out. We discuss: the impact of purity culture on embodiment what embodiment is how God is embodied in Jesus and what that means for us high control religious environments and their influence on how we see our emotions For partners only! Join us in the Green Room this week to talk about this episode and all the other great ones in October. We've got TWO Green Rooms this month, one specifically for those of you in Australia who want to talk about our Purity Culture News episode on Andrew Thorburn, City on a Hill, and Essendon situation. Join us on Thursday October 27 at 8pm (AEDT) and 9pm (EST) We have an upcoming episode with Dr. Hillary McBride on mothers and body image, and we want your voices on it. Record a voice memo starting with "Dear Mom (or Mum or Mama or Oma or whatever you call your mother)" and tell her what you wish she knew about her body. Email it to wheredowegofromherepodcast@gmail.com .  Full show notes here Hillary L. McBride is a registered psychologist, an award-winning researcher, and a sought-after speaker who specializes in embodiment. McBride's clinical and academic work has been recognized by the American Psychological Association and the Canadian Psychological Association. She is an adjunct professor in the department of counseling psychology at the University of British Columbia and has a private counseling practice in Vancouver. She is the author of The Wisdom of Your Body, and Mothers, Daughters, and Body Image and coeditor of Embodiment and Eating Disorders. Connect with Hillary on Twitter and Instagram

This episode is for any Christian who wonders how many more ministry leaders we have to see fall from grace in the headlines. Katelyn Beaty uncovers the love for celebrity at the heart of our churches and ministry, and she has thoughts about how to overcome it. We discuss: why Christians love celebrities the difference between how men and women use celebrity power Bill Hybels and Carl Lentz  why we shouldn't rush to put leaders back into positions of spiritual authority Katelyn Beaty joins us to talk about what Christians should watch out for next (her answer may surprise you), and it's available for partners only. Get it here along with a Purity Culture News episode about Andrew Thorburn's resignation as CEO of the Essendon football club in Melbourne.  Full show notes Katelyn Beaty is a writer, journalist, editor, and keen observer of trends in the American church. She has written for the New York Times, the New Yorker, the Washington Post, Religion News Service, Religion & Politics, and The Atlantic and has commented on faith and culture for CNN, ABC, NPR, the Associated Press, and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. She also cohosts the Saved by the City podcast (Religion News Service). Beaty previously served as print managing editor at Christianity Today and is the author of Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits are Hurting the Church and A Woman's Place: A Christian Vision for Your Calling in the Office, the Home, and the World. Connect with Katelyn on Twitter and Instagram. 

What does it mean to have a congruent life after purity culture? Therapy can help us get there, and Dr. Camden Morgante joins us to talk about how. We discuss: the impact of black and white thinking the benefits of mindfulness the long road of recovery Plus listen all the way to the end for a special high-dollar giveaway for those of you who want purity culture coaching from Dr. Camden. Giveaway deadline is October 7, 2022, it's open world wide, and all you have to do is send an email to wheredowegofromherepodcast@gmail.com.  The Green Room is this week! Join us on Zoom on Thursday September 29 at 10pm EST/ September 30 Friday at noon in Australia by becoming a partner today for $3/USD.  Full show notes here Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed clinical psychologist and former college professor.  She writes and speaks about relationships, sexuality, and faith and is a regular contributor to Christians for Biblical Equality's blog Mutuality. She is currently writing a book on the myths of purity culture. Camden also provides Coaching services for purity culture recovery, egalitarianism, and faith reconstruction. Camden lives in Knoxville, TN with her husband, their daughter and son, and two rescue dogs. Connect with her on: Instagram Facebook Twitter

Therapy after Purity Culture - have you been on the fence about it? We're here to convince you to give it a try. We know that purity culture can be experienced as a trauma, and therapist Jamie Williams is here to talk to us about: the impact of rigid thinking on our minds what happens when our bodies feel unsafe in religious spaces how to spot dysfunctional relationship patterns trauma re-enactments in dating EMDR and future templating On Instagram and Twitter this week, we'll be sharing tips as well. Full show notes here Join us as a partner to hear this week's conversation between Jess & Devi about some feel-good views and the heresies evangelicals in the US believe. For $3/month (USD) you'll get three exclusive episodes a month, and a ticket to the Green Room at the end of the month.   Jamie Williams is a Licensed Professional Counselor Supervisor and the founder of Prosperity Counseling Services. With over 10 years of experience in helping others thrive through adversity, she has witnessed, professionally and personally, the growth we can all make with the right support and tools. Jamie has worked with clients with a wide range of concerns including anxiety, depression, mood swings, anger, relationship issues, Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, mood disorders, postpartum symptoms, parenting problems, self-esteem and those who have experienced trauma in many forms. Her therapeutic approach combines Gestalt, Narrative, Jungian Analysis, Experiential, and trauma-focused counseling modalities such as Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), Trauma-Focused Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (TF-CBT). Jamie is also certified in and utilizes Integrative Somatic Parts Work and Neurofeedback. Jamie holds a Bachelors degree in Psychology and Child and Family studies from Arizona State University and a Masters degree in Mental Health Counseling.She is also currently pursuing a PhD in Clinical Psychology at Saybrook University. Jamie is a Licensed Professional Counselor Supervisor (LPC-S) in the state of Texas (#69979). Connect with her on Instagram.

What do you wish you could say out loud about abortion? We get into it in this huge episode. There's a lot of yelling on both sides of the abortion conversation; we try to cut through the noise and double down on the parts of the abortion topic that Christians tend to ignore.  What abortion and purity culture have to do with each other Christians and abortion: What are the realities? Historical, Medical, Legal, Global: What's going on? Interrogating the solutions proposed by those against abortion and for abortion Full show notes here (over 15 links) Our partners got to hear a one-hour conversation with Dr. Olamide Ayoade-Alawi who is an economist researching the research about abortion. She gets into the data with us - what reduces abortions? What happens when abortion is restricted? We promise no one gets to feel comfortable after this conversation. Join us for $3/month to hear it and other weekly episodes about sexuality, faith, and pop culture.

Purity Culture was full of pseudo-theologies, and we get into one of them here: the Soul Tie. The idea that premarital sex forms a connection in the heavenlies, one that maybe can be broken, but also maybe not. Candice Marie Benbow joins us to talk Red Lip Theology, soul ties, sexuality, why she doesn't use the Bible to form her sexual ethics, and racism in purity culture. This is a provocative conversation that will give you lots to discuss with your friends.  Full show notes here Partner with us to hear two new episodes this month: a romcom recap of How To Lose A Guy in 10 Days (with Jess!) and a Purity Culture News episode about  happenings in the LGBTQ+ space inside the Anglican communion and the CRC denomination in the US. Join us for $3/month (USD) to hear exclusive content no one else gets to hear.  Candice Marie Benbow is a theologian, essayist, columnist, baker, and educator whose work gives voice to Black women's shared experiences of faith, healing, and wholeness. Named by Sojourners as one of “10 Christian Women Shaping the Church in 2020,” she has written for Essence, Glamour, The Root, and VICE. Candice holds degrees from Tennessee State University, North Carolina Central University, and Duke Divinity School. She is the author of the recently published Red Lip Theology. Connect with Candice on Instagram and Twitter

After #MeToo exploded on to the scene, it seemed like the dating landscape for women changed. Consent is a necessary floor, but what is the ceiling for our relationships? Is consent enough to provide the meaning sex might have in our lives? This is the provocative territory Christine Emba's new book Rethinking Sex invites us into. Listen in to see where we go. :00 - Get to know Kelly Wolfe :15 - interview with Christine Emba :52 - Kelly & Devi debrief Full show notes We talk to Christine Emba about privacy and accountability, but it's only for our partners. Join us on the inside to get this and other exclusive episodes when you partner with us for $3/month (USD).  Instagram Twitter Christine Emba is a columnist for The Washington Post writing about ideas and society. Prior, she was the Hilton Kramer Fellow in Criticism at the New Criterion and a deputy editor at the Economist Intelligence Unit, focusing on technology and innovation. Connect with her on Twitter

Jess sits down with a 30-something single friend, Emily, who is a convert to the world of app dating. Together, they share from their experiences dating via a variety of dating apps, talk red flags and share some advise. They look at 5 myths of app dating... is it safe? Are people lying to you? Lastly, how has COVID changed how app dating looks? Emily shares her thoughts on that too. If you're at all curious about online/app dating or already an app user, you won't want to miss this episode! Full show notes Instagram Twitter Partner with us for $3/month (USD) to hear our romcom recaps, Purity Culture News, uncut episodes from our guests, and get a ticket to the Green Room.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains references to grooming and sexual assault.  Purity Culture is part of the reason why our secular and religious culture's still don't know what to do with abuse. We are so many years out from #MeToo and #ChurchToo but current events tell us we are not learning our lessons. Today we look at the grooming in the best selling novel The Time Traveller's Wife, recently adapted into a series for HBO, and the ongoing comeback of John Crist. We cover: Jess going on maternity leave The Time Traveller's Wife HBO series (spoiler alerts!) is what happens in this story grooming? What does purity culture have to do with John Crist? Crist's past two years in a three act structure What hope is there for alleged abusers? Partner with us for $3/month to hear our romcom recap of 27 Dresses! You also get purity culture news, uncut interviews from guests, and a ticket here to the Green Room. Instagram Twitter Full show notes here