SaaS Talkâ„¢ with the Metrics Brothers - Strategies, Insights, & Metrics for B2B SaaS Executive Leaders

Stock-based Compensation (SBC) has been a hallmark of the SaaS and Cloud industry since the early days. Stock Options, Restricted Stock Units, Strike Price, and vesting periods continue to be a key discussion point for potential hires. Today's episode covers how Stock-based compensation impacts Operating Expenses on the Income Statement...and how SBC can impact SaaS metrics.Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into the details of Stock-Based Compensation in today's episode including:What is Stock-Based Compensation (SBC)How does a company pay/account for SBCWhat kind of expense is Stock-Based CompensationWhere does SBC show up on an Income StatementHow can SBC impact SaaS metricsStock-Based Compensation can be a very complex and nuanced topic, but if you are a SaaS executive, a SaaS employee with stock options, or a SaaS company investor, this conversation and episode is full of detailed insights.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

B2B SaaS Benchmark reports are popping up like mushrooms - but how do you know if the benchmark report is good, contains valuable insights and how to use the benchmarks to inform your own objectives and SaaS metrics goals? Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike take on a topic that is near and dear to their hearts and discuss several key factors that are a tell for a good benchmark report including:Top things to consider when reading a benchmark reportAttributes of a good benchmark reportAttributes of a "not so good" benchmark reportBenchmark utilization best practicesGood Benchmark reports to reviewIf you read benchmark reports and use them in helping to establish goals and objectives in your B2B SaaS company - this episode is a must listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is a term commonly used across the SaaS industry - but what does it really mean, how can a company effectively build a customer acquisition strategy around it and what METRICS can be used to determine a company's ICP and then measure if it really is the best target customer segment?During this week's episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the following ICP elements to understand, execute and measure the ROI on the "Ideal Customer Profile":What variables are used to determine the ICPHow to measure the relevant fit of a prospect to the ICPHow to measure if the identified "ICP" is the best target customer segment(s)What metrics can be added to the traditional ICP criteria to enhance the targeting strategyAs always - CAC and Growth introduce a new pairing and an attempt at humor throughout the episode

Net Customer Base Expansion = (Expansion ARR - Churned ARR) which helps SaaS companies to understand how the existing customer base is impacting ARR growth excluding the impact of new logo customer ARR. Why not just use Net Revenue Retention? CAC and Growth dive deep into this SaaS metric including:Calculation formula for Net Customer Base Expansion (NCBE)How is NCBE different from Net Revenue Retention (NRR)What is CAC's definition of lazy NRRCohort vs Segment Calculations - what is the differenceWhat is a good Net Customer Base Expansion RateWhen and where does the Net Customer Base Expansion provide the most valueIf you are responsible for impacting how ARR grows at existing customers in a B2B SaaS company - this episode may provides some new insights and maybe a new metric to add to your SaaS Metrics glossary!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

B2B SaaS Pricing models have evolved over the past few years with 67% of SaaS companies now saying they have introduced at least one element of Usage-Based Pricing. Though this benchmark does not tell the whole story of pricing, as the primary pricing model is still based upon a subscription fee per user or a subscription fee per user + a Usage-Based or Value-Based pricing variable.During this episode, CAC and Growth cover a wide range of current pricing trends and benchmarks including:Subscription vs Usage vs Value vs Hybrid pricing model adoptionAdoption of AI and the associated pricing strategiesImpact on Growth Rates based upon pricing model usedUtilization of "Usage CAPS" and how they are chargedTreatment of Usage-Based Revenue when calculating ARRIf you are a student of the SaaS industry, and/or are evaluating if your current pricing model is optimized for your customers and your company's financial performance - this episode is chalked full of unique insights and thought-provoking commentary from Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" RikeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Common practice is to measure Sales and Marketing expenses as a percentage of revenue, which in the SaaS industry ranges between 20% - 60% based upon stage, growth and efficiency. CAC and Growth discuss an alternative metric which measures the ratio between Sales expenses and Marketing expenses, known as the Sales/Marketing Expense Ratio.During this episode topics discussed include:Sales and Marketing expense as percentage of revenue benchmarksSales and Marketing expense ratio - value and insightsWhat a 2:1 Sales and Marketing expense ratio meansWhat drives a changing Sales and Marketing expense ratioCustomer Acquisition Cost Efficiency metric - CAC Ratio vs S&M Expense RatioIf you are interested in measuring the allocation of the GTM budget between Sales and Marketing, this is a great episode and listen.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Sales Velocity metric calculation formula is (win rate x average contract value x # opportunities)/ average sales cycle length. The resultant Sales Velocity metrics highlights the amount of new bookings a Sales team can deliver per day....one key question about Sales Velocity is " is this a metric to help understand sales capacity, sales effectiveness or sales efficiency?Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike break down Sales Velocity in this episode covering key topics including:Sales Velocity CalculationSales Velocity BenefitsWhich input variables to focus on firstFour Approaches to Increase Sales VelocityIf you have a sales team, lead a sales team or are involved in how sales performance impacts financial goals, this episode provides several key "operator insights" on how to use the Sales Velocity metric and ideas on how to improve Sales Velocity!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the latest revenue growth trends and the related metrics driving the growth as highlighted in GONGs 2025 State of Revenue Growth Report. Topics discussed include:2024 Growth RatesSales Velocity Trends including Win Rates, Sales Cycle Length and ACVAI AdoptionTop Growth InitiativesSaaS Magic Number trendsIf you are responsible for the GTM and Revenue growth teams in your SaaS company, or just interested in the latest Sales benchmarks - this episode in another great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Implied ARR is the SaaS metric used to convert GAAP revenue for public SaaS companies into an equivalent to Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) used by investors and private SaaS companies. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the what, why and how behind Implied ARR.During this episode CAC and Growth discuss multiple Implied ARR topics including:Implied ARR Calculation FormulaWhy Investors Calculate Implied ARRSaaS Metrics that use Implied ARRChallenges with Implied ARRImplied ARR versus Trailing Twelve Month RevenueIf you are interested in how public SaaS companies analysts use Implied ARR, and what the differences are between private SaaS companies ARR and public SaaS companies Implied ARR this is another great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Max Schireson and Jason Mendel, from Battery Ventures recently published an article on Managing and Measuring R&D spend including key metrics from the DORA and SPACE frameworks and they also introduced their own 5 step R&D measurement framework including:Allocate top downBreak R&D into granular buckets (not a lump sum)Listen to product-adjacent teams that are customer-facingBe deliberate about measuring success of R&D projectsHold the full team accountableThe article also includes benchmarks from Battery Ventures portfolio company, LinearB.If you are interesting in best practices on measuring R&D productivity, this episode is a great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the SaaS Quick Ratio, a SaaS metric first introduced in 2015 with the goal to measure ARR growth efficiency by comparing New ARR growth versus existing customer ARR contraction.The SaaS Quick Ratio borrows a concept used in general finance known as the "Quick Ratio" - which measures a company's ability to pay it's current liabilities.The formula used to calculate the SaaS Quick Ratio is:(New Logo ARR + Expansion ARR)/ (Churned ARR + Down-Sell ARR)Traditional wisdom says a SaaS Quick Ratio above 4 is good, between 1-4 is ok but beware that ARR growth is not as efficient as it should be and less than 1 is highly inefficient growth - an ARR leaky bucket!If you are a SaaS operator and looking for an easy metric to calculate that quickly highlights ARR growth efficiency as measured by the ratio of New ARR versus Lost ARR - The SaaS Quick Ratio may be for you.Listen to the entire episode to hear CAC and Growth discuss the nuances of the SaaS Quick Ratio!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Marketing budget and productivity benchmarks are hard to find, so when Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike first saw the ICONIQ Growth Marketing Budget and Productivity Report - they knew it was a great topic for this episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers.During today's episode, Dave and Ray discuss several critical Marketing Planning, Budget, and Productivity benchmarks including:Marketing budget as a percentage of RevenueOn-line versus off-line spendProgram vs People budget allocationOnline Marketing spend by channelOff-line Marketing spend by programOutsourcing and Agency spend by program typeMarketing efficiency benchmarksPipeline contribution sourcesIf you are a B2B SaaS Chief Marketing Officer, Chief Financial Officer or CEO, this episode is chalked full of great data, insights and ideas for 2025 and beyond...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

ServiceTitan, a vertical SaaS company for the trades recently filed their S-1 and went public on December 12, 2024. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss many details regarding the S-1 including the basic enterprise value creating performance metrics and some very interesting aspects of the IPO structure.During this episode, Dave and Ray discuss several aspects of the S-1 and IPO measured against industry benchmarks including:ARR Growth RateRule of 40Net Dollar Retention RateCAC Payback Period Gross Margin S&M as a percentage of revenueR&D as a percentage of revenueARR per FTERevenue breakdown by category (Subscription, Gross Transaction Value, Services)Down round from last rounds of funding as a private companyCompounding IPO RatchetDifferent classes of stock and voting rightsOne of the sources of information used for this episode was the Meritech Capital S-1 breakdown which can be read here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

KeyBanc Capital Markets in partnership with Sapphire Ventures recently published their 2024 SaaS Metrics Benchmark report. During today's episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into this years highlights including:Growth RatesNet and Gross Revenue RetentionRule of 40Go-to-Market Organization RatiosMarketing Strategies and ProductivityHuman Capital EfficiencyValuation Multiples - By Growth RateIf you are a SaaS executive, employee or investor this episode is a great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Sales Operations function evolves dramatically as a company scales and Meghan Gill, SVP Sales Ops and Sales Development at MongoDB has lived that reality. Meghan started in Marketing at MongoDB as employee number 8 as the first non engineering hire, and then seven years later took over Sales Operations in preparation for their IPO.CAC and Growth discuss the evolution of Sales Ops with Meghan and discuss several key topics including:The career journey from Marketing to Sales OperationsThe evolution of Sales Operations post IPOSales Operations vs Revenue OperationsGTM changes required when converting to Usage-Based PricingCentralized planning to decentralized global planning - an operations perspectiveHearing how the role of Sales Operations evolves from pre IPO to post IPO and continuing to $2B+ directly from a person who has been in the middle of making that journey possible makes for a highly informative conversation and a unique guest centric SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers episode!!!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

CAC and Growth discuss the recent Scaling SaaS from $1M to $20M ARR ICONIQ Growth report that provides a long term view on the performance metrics benchmarks that SaaS companies exhibit at granular stages of growth including $5M, $10M, $15M and $20M ARR.Benchmarks covered include:Enterprise Five Benchmarks (Median and Top Quartile)Growth Plateau Challenges started at $25M ARRNew Logo GrowthOperating Expense TrendsAnnual Contract Value Growth by StageNew ARR vs Expansion ARRARR per FTEBurn MultipleThe ICONIQ Growth "Scaling SaaS from $1M to $20M ARR" Report provides unique insights and perspectives on the benchmarks that define success as measured by both the top quartile and median benchmarks for the 107 private SaaS companies that are included in this research.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Remaining Performance Obligation (RPO) metric has become a more standard metric that public company Wall Street analysts have started to follow closely to help evaluate the bookings growth of recurring revenue companies. CAC and Growth cover the following topics regarding RPO including: Why was the Remaining Performance Obligation createdWhat does the Remaining Performance Obligation (RPO) metric tell investorsHow is RPO calculatedThe difference between RPO and deferred revenueHow multi-year agreements impact both the RPO and Deferred Revenue calculationsIf you are interested in how public company analysts use the RPO metric or are just a student of the SaaS industry - this episode dives deep into an increasingly important SaaS investor metric!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Customer Retention is a hallmark of the SaaS recurring revenue business model. But what is the primary metric to measure the cost of retaining each customer, how is the efficiency to renew ARR calculated, and what goes into that metric?Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike go deep into the components of Customer Retention Costs and the value in measuring including:The benefits of measuring Customer Retention CostsCustomer Retention vs Customer Renewal CostsThe Components of Customer Retention CostsTotal ARR or Renewed ARR - which is the best to measure Retention Costs againstThe SaaS industry has multiple metrics that measure the cost to acquire a customer (Customer Acquisition Cost), the efficiency of acquiring new customers (CAC Ratio), the payback period on Customer Acquisition Costs (CAC Payback Period) and how much recurring revenue is retained every period (Gross Revenue Retention- GRR)...but no standard metric that measures the efficiency of retaining and renewing customers.During this episode, CAC and Growth dive deep into the topic of the Customer Retention Cost Ratio and the Customer Renewal Cost Ratio!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

New investment announcements in B2B SaaS companies are not quite what they seem!? Over the past few years, public announcements have moved from how much capital was raised to what the valuation of the company was at funding. BEWARE - those valuation headlines are full of nuance and details that are not disclosed!!!Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike - also known as The Metrics Brothers go deep into the details that are left out and are present behind the headline valuation announcements including:Class of stockLiquidation preferencesParticipating preferencesRedemption RightsSecondary SalesIf you are in the B2B SaaS industry and interested in the "story behind headline valuation announcements" - this is a great conversation to hear!!!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Contracted Annual Recurring Revenue (CARR) and Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) are commonly used terms in the SaaS and Cloud Industry but are not standardized leading to inconsistent calculation. In fact, they were the first two metrics the SaaS Metrics Standards Board published standards upon.Dave and Ray discuss the current definitions, calculations and how Usage-Based Pricing is impacting the historic ARR reporting model.During today's episode CAC and Growth cover the following topics:Contracted Annual Recurring Revenue (CARR) - Definition and CalculationAnnual Recurring Revenue (ARR) - Definition and CalculationUsage-Based Pricing and impact on revenue reportingIntroduction of Recurring and Re-ocurring revenueReporting variable revenue from Usage-Based Pricing modelsWith ARR not being a FASB / GAAP Revenue reporting standard - the opportunity and challenges for having multiple calculation and reporting models is easy to identify - but hard to rectify.If you are using, considering using or do not use Usage-Based Pricing this conversation and episode is a great listen.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Free Cash Flow is a key metric for any SaaS investor and thus for SaaS CFOs and CEOs. Moreover Free Cash Flow Margin is a key variable in the Rule of 40 - a key enterprise value creation metric. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive deep into the value behind the FCF metric and the different ways to calculate!During this episode Dave and Ray discuss the following elements of Free Cash Flow:Where to find Free Cash Flow on public company filingsThe three primary Cash Flow statementsDifferent formulas to calculate Free Cash FlowThe impact of capitalizing sales commissions and R&DThe Rule of 40 calculation - Free Cash Flow as the profitability metricFree Cash Flow is not a metric limited to B2B SaaS companies but has become an increasingly important metric to SaaS investors as the industry matures as measured by how Enterprise Value has become more correlated to a blend of growth and profitability.This episode is a great listen for anyone interested in the core financial metrics that impact the value of a B2B SaaS company! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bessemer Venture Partners recently released their 9th annual Cloud 100 Report. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive deep into the impact of AI companies on the top 100 private cloud companies which increased their aggregate enterprise value to $820B and increased their growth rate to 70%!Key highlights Dave and Ray discuss include:Aggregate enterprise value of the Cloud 100 increased 25% year over yearAverage growth rate increased from 55% in 2023 to 70% in 202497% of the Cloud 100 will be over $100M ARR by the end of the yearTop 10 companies in the Cloud 100 represent ~ 30% of the total Enterprise ValueAi companies represent the top category of the Cloud 100 EV (21% of total)EV:Revenue multiples are down YoY (23x) but still at very attractive levelsAs a follow-on to the BVP "State of the Cloud 2024 Report" the Cloud 100 highlights the era of AI has moved from hype to reality as measured by growth rates and enterprise value!If you are interested in the latest "CLOUD" industry trends as measured by company value, revenue growth rates and industry impact this episode is a must listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Go-to-Market continues to be a trending topic for the majority of B2B SaaS companies being challenged to optimize efficient revenue growth. ICONIQ recently published a report entitled "State of GTM Benchmarks" and Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the report's findings and what the benchmarks mean to both operators and investors.Key GTM benchmarks covered during today's episode include:Growth Rate Trends ('24 vs '23)Customer Acquisition Logo VelocityPipeline Coverage RatioPipeline Conversion RatesPartner Sourced ContributionsExpansion ARR vs New Logo ARRIf you are a B2B SaaS CEO, CFO or GTM executive this episode is full of interesting insights based upon the most recent GTM benchmarks.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The SaaS Mendoza line highlights the slope of the long term growth rate that investors expect and operators should target on a path to IPO. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike break down the updated expectations.Veteran software VC, Rory O'Driscoll of Scale Venture Partners proposed a theory to identify the growth rate below which a company may not be on the VC-to-IPO trajectory.In 2018, Rory started with an analysis of SaaS companies at the time of IPO. In 2018, SaaS companies going public had a minimum run rate ARR of $100M and at least a 25% forward growth rate. He then examined growth rates over time and observed that the growth persistence - which represents the rate of growth decay year over year, that public SaaS companies grew at 80-85% of their previous year's growth. This metric is commonly known as "Growth Endurance".Dave and Ray discuss the new reality of the SaaS Mendoza line, with the most recent data in 2023-2024 suggesting that a SaaS company must have at least $400M - $500M" in revenue before they can IPO as evidenced by the recent Klaviyo, OneStream and Rubrik initial pubic offerings.CAC and Growth highlight other common "growth expectation" models including the T2D3 (Triple, Triple, Double, Double Double) and 56789 models. If you are evaluating what it takes for early stage company to attract new investors as your growth on a path to IPO - this conversation is full of great insights and perspective on investor expectations.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Go-to-Market trouble shooting is a very common activity in 2024 as B2B SaaS companies continue to face growth and especially efficient revenue growth challenges. In this episode Dave "CAC" Kellogg shares his top-down GTM trouble shooting method which boils down into two primary categories:Pipeline CoveragePipeline ConversionDave and Ray dive into the details on the key metrics to evaluate and what they tell a SaaS GTM operator about the current state of their GTM performance. Key insights are provided across multiple topics including:Week 3, Day 1 Pipeline Coverage RatioWin Rate vs Pipeline Coverage RatioPipeline Conversion MeasurementPipeline Source and CompositionCAC also provides his most basic insight into the top two questions a CEO should be asking which are:Are we giving sales a chance to hit the number (pipeline coverage)Is Sales converting enough opportunities into customers (pipeline conversion)If you are a CEO, CFO or GTM leader in B2B SaaS and are responsible for GTM performance and/or evaluating GTM performance this episode is a great listen! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

OneStream went public on July 24, 2024 and Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dedicated this episode to discussing their S-1 and Initial Public Offering (IPO). OneStream, the company offering their Digital Finance Cloud to the Office of Finance has a long history including being self-funded, being acquired by Private Equity (KKR) in 2019 and beginning the transition from a perpetual license software company to a SaaS company in 2020 on the path to their IPO.During the episode, Dave and Ray discuss multiple aspects of the OneStream public offering including:The history of OneStreamKKR investment in 2019IPO pricingUmbrella Partnership Corporation (Up-C)Stock Class Voting RightsFinancial Performance Metrics TrendsIf you are a student of the SaaS industry and/or are interested in the details behind a company that serves the Office of Finance this episode is a great listen.This is the 50th episode of SaaS Talk™ with the Metrics Brothers and don't miss CAC and Growth sharing credits to the people who made SaaS Talk a reality!!!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Burn Multiple is a metric created by David Sacks to measure the capital efficiency of ARR growth in B2B SaaS companies. In this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss alternatives to the Burn Multiple and then dive into the details of the two primary burn multiple components which are Net Burn and Net New ARR.There are multiple metrics that attempt to measure capital efficiency of B2B SaaS companies including:Hype Ratio = Capital Raised / ARRCash Conversion Score: Current ARR / (Total Capital Raised to date - cash)Efficiency Score = Net New ARR / Net Burn The Burn Multiple uses two primary components in it's calculation which is: Burn Multiple = Net Burn / Net New ARRNet Burn = Revenue in the Period - Operating Expenses in the PeriodNet New ARR = New Logo ARR + Expansion ARR - Down-sell ARR - Churned ARRWhat is a good Burn Multiple? It depends on the stage of the company, but let's use David Sacks benchmark framework from his original Burn Multiple article in 2020:Amazing = < 1xGreat = 1.0 - 1.5xGood = 1.5 - 2.0xSuspect = 2.0 - 3.0xBad = >3xIf you have an investor focused on the Burn Multiple or you have heard about the Burn Multiple but want to understand the details and nuances this episode is a great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bessemer Venture Partners recently released their "State of the Cloud 24" which included the catch phrase "The Legacy Cloud is Dead - Long Live AI Cloud!" Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the report and the opportunities and threats to traditional SaaS companies.Topics discussed include:Social Media Buzz and Sources of "SaaS is Dead"Gen AI VC Funding Categories and SourcesTop Five Gen AI Trends Trend 1: AI foundation models set the stage for Big Tech's new battle-of-the-century Trend 2: AI turning all of us into 10X developers Trend 3: Multimodal models and AI agents will transform human relationships with software Trend 4: Vertical AI shows potential to dwarf legacy SaaS with new applications and business models Trend 5: AI Brings Consumer Cloud Back from the DeadIf you are in a SaaS company evaluating how best to maneuver the risks and/or capture the potential of Gen AI, the Bessemer State of the Cloud report is a great read and this episode with CAC and Growth is a great listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

McKinsey recently published a report entitled "Navigating the Generative AI Disruption in Software" that Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss in his episode.Some of the primary topics discussed include:GEN AI penetration velocity today vs SaaS in the early daysGEN AI impact on switching from traditional SW/SaaS vendorsWhere will the rewards of Gen AI goImpact on SaaS Growth and Churn RatesOne of the most interesting parts of the report and this episode is that expansion growth rates of software will increase for those with embedded generative AI. In addition, the adoption of Generative AI solutions will be spread across three primary modalities of Gen AI software including:Native Generative AI Point SolutionsBroader platforms with embedded Generative AIInternally developed Generative AI softwareIf you are a traditional SaaS company and are looking to navigator the unchartered waters of the Generative AI software era, the McKinsey report and this episode are great sources of ideals and insights.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What is the difference between the price and value of a SaaS company? How do metrics such as Enterprise Value to EBITDA multiples play a role in this discussion? Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth Rike discuss the topic on this episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brother and cover a wide array of topics including:What is a SaaS company worth?What is the definition of "price vs value" in the stock marketExamining Valuation Multiples What They Miss, Why They Differ, and the Link to FundamentalsHow Cash and Debt impacts Enterprise ValueEV/EBITDA vs EV/FCF vs EV/Revenue MultiplesAn inspiration for this episode was from a paper written by Michael Mauboussin with the title: "Examining Valuation Multiples What They Miss, Why They Differ, and the Link to Fundamentals". You can read the paper by clicking here.If you are a SaaS professional or even just interested in learning more about how SaaS companies are valued, this conversation is full of interesting insights and details on the concept of SaaS company valuations.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trouble shooting Go-to-Market (GTM) issues is a critical competency to master for every SaaS company as they face the pressures of lower growth and reduced revenue growth efficiency. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike introduce a GTM trouble shooting framework that addresses the five primary opportunities to improve GTM efficiency.The five key areas of Go-to-Market efficiency opportunities include:Pipeline GenerationPipeline ConversionWin Rates + ACVCustomer RetentionCustomer ExpansionCAC and Growth discuss some of the key metrics that measure the performance and health of each of the above areas. In addition, as two former B2B SaaS operators, they cannot help but dive into some of the key issues and solutions that go beyond "trouble shooting" and move into potential solutions to enhance revenue growth efficiency and improve performance.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Benchmarkit recently published their 2024 SaaS Performance Metrics Benchmark Report based upon 936 B2B SaaS companies participation. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the recent trends and insights.SaaS Metrics and the corresponding benchmarks discussed include:2023 Growth Rates2024 Planned Growth RatesCAC Ratio (Blended, New and Expansion)CAC Payback PeriodNet Revenue RetentionSales and Marketing expenses as a % of RevenueARR per EmployeeThe full report and interactive benchmarking tool can be reached at: benchmarkit.ai/2024benchmarksIf you work in the B2B SaaS or Cloud industry this episode is a must listen!NOTE: Benchmarkit was founded by SaaSTalk co-host, Ray "Growth" Rike"See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is Pipeline Coverage Ratio simply the inverse of the win rate? Many people will translate a 20% win rate into the need for a 5:1 Pipeline Coverage Ratio - Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into why that just isn't the case! There are multiple variables that need to be considered including:Win Rate versus Closed-Won Rate Conversion - there is a differenceWhat happens to Pipeline Coverage Ratio when deals are pushed into or pushed out of the quarterHow is Pipeline Coverage Ratio different in a 30 day sales cycle versus a 180 day sale cycleBottom line - why Pipeline Coverage Ratio is NOT as simple as 1/Win RateSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

SaaS Account Executive Benchmarks including On-Target Earnings, Commission Rates, Quota, Quota Achievement, Renewal and Expansion Responsibilities are a few of the benchmarks that Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss in this episode.Account Executive Benchmarks discussion include:On-Target Earnings (2024 vs 2022)Base Salary and Variable Compensation MixCommission Rates (2024 vs 2022)Quota Assignment by ACVQuota AchievementRenewal and Expansion ResponsibilitiesIf you are leading a B2B SaaS sales team or have one in your company that directly impacts financial performance this is a must listen episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Logan Bartlett, Managing Director at Redpoint Ventures recently shared the Market Overview Report they presented to their Limited Partners in March '24 at their AGM event at the Chase Center in San Francisco. Ray "Growth" Rike and Dave "CAC" Kellogg review the key insights during this episode.Insights that Dave and Ray discussion include:Enterprise Valuations - a return to 2019Growth Rate trends - a return to a time long ago in a land far awayThe value of Growth vs Profitability - the trends and the factsDown Rounds, Shut Downs and No RoundsClick here to get the report and to follow along Dave and Ray's conversation - as they sometimes go off the deep end!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Rubrik, a cloud industry cybersecurity company went public on April 25th - Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike break down the key metrics that Rubrik used as the foundation to their S-1 and Initial Public Offering. Those metrics include:Annual Recurring Revenue GrowthRevenue (GAAP) GrowthNet Revenue RetentionSales and Marketing Expenses as % of RevenueFree Cash Flow versus Net IncomeThe Metrics Brothers also discuss the Rubrik transition to a recurring revenue model and the two-tier stock structure used to ensure voting control remains with the founders and early investors.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss how a "growth rate" endures for a SaaS company trend over time!Topics covered during the conversation include:T2D3 Growth Model and Mantra from 2015"56789" Growth Model from Metric Brother Dave "CAC" KelloggThe Impact of Growth Endurance decreasing to 65% in 2023 versus 80% in 2021Growth Endurance is the measure of how a company's growth rate endures over time: GE = current year's growth rate / last year's growth rate.At an 80% Growth Endurance (2021 value) says that a companies growth rate in the next year will be 80% of the current years growth- example: 70% growth this year would predict 56% growth next yearGrowth Endurance has decreased over the last two years and is NOW ~ 65% (2023)- example: 70% growth this year would predict 45.5% growth next yearGrowth Endurance decreasing from 80% to 65% may not sound that bad but let's look at the impact over 5 years at a $10M ARR company today but...80% Growth Endurance = $189M ARR in Five Years (starting at $10M ARR)65% Growth Endurance = $122M ARR in Five Years (starting at $10M ARR)Using a 6.5x "Enterprise Value to Revenue" multiple that projects a material decrease in Enterprise Value

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike continue their discussion on the SaaS Metrics Maturity Model which includes the below five levels:Level 1: FoundationLevel 2: TrustLevel 3: Strategic LinkageLevel 4: Metrics CultureLevel 5: TrajectoryLevel 1: Lay the foundationDefinitions and calculationsPipeline stages, forecast categories, close dates, values, SaaS metricsSemantics - what do words like best case, forecast, commit and downside meanInstrument underlying systems (GL, CRM, Billing, HCM, etc)Consider Metrics CommitteeLevel 2: Build trustTemplates, templates, templatesMetrics selection & presentationHistory & context - always include footnotes on how metrics are calculatedRegular Cadence: which templates used at which meetings?Continuous improvement - fix data at the source, improve templatesLevel 3: Link Metrics to Business StrategyIdentify your top challenges Define 4-6 strategic goals - align metrics to those goalsLink department, team and individual objectives to the company metrics (OKRs)Level 4: Build a metrics cultureDemand numeracyManage to the regular metrics publishing cadenceMetrics conversations about the business impact NOT the metric calculation methodLevel 5: Agree on strategic trajectoryLong-range, driver-based modelsTimeframe: When are metrics goals targeted to be achieved, what are the milestones towards goalSequencing: Not everything at once - what is the priority order and associated timeframe for each metric's goalIf you are a creator, user or participant in how your company uses metrics to measure performance, inform decision making and/or report performance to your boss, your board and your investors this conversation will be valuable!!!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the 5 root causes that created the need to develop a SaaS Metrics Maturity Model for companies as they scale.The top five root causes that lead to the 15 primary problems in how companies use metrics include:There's no shared metrics foundationThere's no trustMetrics are not integral to strategyThe culture is not metrics-drivenMetrics are not being used define trajectory and long-term goalsThis episode discusses the key challenges in using metrics and the approaches to address those challenges. This discussion builds up to the introduction of the Metrics Maturity Model and the 5 levels of maturity:Level 1: FoundationLevel 2: TrustLevel 3: Strategic LinkageLevel 4: Metrics CultureLevel 5: TrajectoryIf you use, develop or just are a student of SaaS Metrics - this episode is full of insights and ideas on how to accelerate your company's metrics maturity model to level 5!!!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the Customer Lifetime Value to Customer Acquisition Cost (LTV:CAC) Ratio - a metric many consider the ultimate compound metric that investors love.During this episode topics covered include:How to calculate Customer Lifetime ValueHow to calculate Customer Acquisition CostBenchmarks for LTV:CAC Ratio and the translation to Rate of ReturnPrimary input variables and predictive indicators to optimize LTV:CAC RatioIf you have ever heard of the LTV:CAC Ratio or just are interested in some of the details and finer points from CAC and GROWTH - this is a entertaining and information episode!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a replay of one of the most popular SaaS Talk episodes published in season #1. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive deep into all things Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) including the CAC Ratio.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Aileen Lee, Founder and Managing Partner at Cowboy Ventures recently wrote an article entitled "Welcome Back to the Unicorn Club, 10 Years Later" (1/18/24) which was a follow up to an article she wrote in November, 2013 entitled "Welcome to the Unicorn Club: Learning from Billion-Dollar Startups".Our SaaS Talk™ with the Metrics Brothers co-hosts, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike do a deep dive into how private and public company valuations are calculate, explore the difference between Market Capitalization and Enterprise Value, and uncover a few of the "inside baseball" secrets to how $1B Unicorn may be worth much less.Topics discussed include:Market CapitalizationEnterprise ValueParticipating vs Non-Participating Preferences1x, 2x and 3x Liquidation PreferenceCommon vs Preferred Stock in a Private CompanyStock Option Re-pricing - beware the last post money Unicorn valuationOnceacorn, Decacorn, Supercorn, ZIRPicorns, Papercorn, Zombiecorn, UnicorpseThe number of unicorns has grown from 39 in 2013 to 532 in 2023 per Cowboy Ventures (1,000 according to Battery Ventures). Unfortunately ~ 40% are trading for a much lower price on secondary markets than the last post-money valuations.If you love the idea of creating or being part of a VC backed company worth more than $1B, or are just interested in the material reduction in the creation of new unicorns, this episode is full of detail, insights and a little humor!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

ICONIQ Growth recently published their "Essential Go-to-Market (GTM) Board Slides", which includes the categories and metrics that they recommend be included in the GTM portion of the board deck. The template includes slides for the each category of GTM metrics they recommend including:GTM ScorecardIdeal Customer ProfileARR FunnelLogo VelocityRevenue and Logo RetentionWin/Loss AnalysisPipelineLead and Funnel ConversionSales Capacity and ProductivityTeam Update and PlanningDave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike identify and discuss their perspectives on the top slides in the template, while also highlighting a couple of additional slides that would be valuable.If you are a GTM leader, or a CEO or CFO looking on refining and optimizing the GTM portion of your board deck, this episode is full of good ideas and insights.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Common Paper recently released a benchmark report on Cloud contract terms and conditions based upon data from over 1,000 companies. This is the first benchmarking report we have found that covers SaaS/Cloud Master Service Agreements.Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike, better known as the Metrics Brothers break down the benchmarks contained in the report including:Agreement LengthPayment TermsLimitations of LiabilityAI and Data PrivacyInsurance RequirementsDesign Partner AgreementsIf you are responsible for designing, negotiating or enforcing Master Service Agreements in the Cloud industry, this episode provides broad and detailed insights on the latest MSA terms and conditions being used in the industry.The Common Paper Benchmark report is available by clicking here.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Nick Mehta, CEO of Gainsight joins Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike to discuss all things Customer Success and metrics! This is a "special episode" that combines deep Customer Success (CS) expertise with moments of light humor, pop culture references, and SaaS industry insider insights!Topics discussed and benchmarks shared during this episode include:ARR per CSMCustomers per CSMCustomer Success Reporting RelationshipsExpansion ARR and Renewal ResponsibilityCSAT or NPSFurther into the episode, additional topics covered include:Priority Outcome Metrics for CSPrimary Leading Indicators for CSCustomer Verified OutcomesThere has been a lot of talk across the industry regarding the future of Customer Success, including if Customer Success as a function is needed which was highlighted in Frank Slootman's book "Amp it Up".If you have a Customer Success team, are considering how to invest in Customer Success, or are just looking for an entertaining 20-minute conversation chalked full of great insights and a laugh or two this episode is a GREAT listen!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the top metrics for a Customer Service organization that span the top three goals of CS including resolving, deflecting, and/or preventing cases.During this episode, we lean heavily on CAC's background as a technical support agent for the first two years of his career, and then as the head of the Salesforce Service Cloud.The primary job of Customer Service (Customer Support) including the three below macro-level goalsResolve CasesDeflect CasesPrevent CasesWhat are the top metrics to measure the performance of Customer Service while ensuring a high level of customer satisfaction?:Cases per Agent (while maintaining a 4.5 CSAT score)CSAT Time to Resolution (mean is not as valuable - have a max)First call resolutionThere are many nuances to the above metrics including the type of call (how-to or bug fixes), the ability to effectively deflect calls that solve the customer issue, and how to measure the longer-term impact of preventing inbound cases over time.If you are thinking about or currently evaluating your customer service (customer support) performance metrics, this is a great conversation that covers a wide range of metrics, goals, and priorities for any customer service organization in a B2B technology business.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What are the top metrics for a Professional Services (PS) leader in a B2B SaaS company? During this episode, our hosts Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the top PS metrics including:Professional Services Revenue / BillingsGross Margin (%)Billable Utilization Rate ($ and Hours)Non Billable Utilization including reasonsCapacity ($ Billables and # Hours)Before diving deep into the actual metrics, Dave highlighted that PS's primary job is to "maximize ARR without losing money". A key highlight on the role of PS is that it is not primarily responsible for maximizing PS Revenue or PS Gross Margin, but rather to help accelerate deployment to subscription revenue recognition, product adoption, utilization, and customer value all leading to increased customer retention rates and subscription customer lifetime value.One of the key points that were discussed is that Professional Services should not be goaled, or incented for maximizing PS revenue and/or optimizing Gross Margin. Generating cash from PS is a strategy that companies that are not in a good cash position may use to lengthen their cash runway - but not a strategy that maximizes the enterprise value of a recurring revenue business.Attach rate is a common measurement that many B2B SaaS companies use. The most common way to measure attach rate is: PS Billings / Total ARR in a specific period, such as quarterly or annually. Being able to correlate those customers that use PS and the associated GRR can highlight how the utilization of PS has to customer retention.What % of total revenue in a B2B SaaS company is the max for professional services? Dave "CAC" Kellogg used 20% as the absolute cap on PS, measured as a % of PS revenue to subscription revenue. Dave also recommended a Gross Margin of anything above zero percent, but optimizing Gross Margin at the expense of ARR is not a good long-term strategy.If you are responsible for Professional Services in a B2B SaaS company, or are evaluating the strategic role and associated metrics for a PS organization this is a great episode to listen to.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the top metrics for a Chief Customer Officer to use presenting to the board and to report to the executive team when the CCO has responsibility for: 1) Customer Success; 2) Professional Services and; 3) Customer SupportNet Revenue RetentionGross Revenue RetentionCustomer Health ScoreBillable PS RevenueBillable UtilizationGross MarginCases per AgentPost Case Closed CSATDeflectionsThose these are the high level metrics for a CCO, each function will have more detailed lagging and leading indicator metrics that Dave and Ray will cover in subsequent episodes of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What are the top metrics for a Chief Marketing Officer to use when presenting to the board of directors and in a Quarterly Business Review. Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the below top 7 CMO metrics during this episode:Marketing Sourced Pipeline GenerationMarketing Sourced Pipeline ConversionDay 1 Pipeline CoverageDemand Generation Cost per OpportunityBrand AwarenessWebsite VisitorsSales CSATDave recently wrote a detailed blog article on this topic which can be read by clicking here."CAC" is a huge fan of the phrase "Marketing creates pipeline that closes" and dives into the detail of the top Marketing metrics during this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Top 5 Metrics for Chief Revenue Officers that own the entire customer journey, including Customer Acquisition, Customer Retention and Customer Expansion process.Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss 5 of the top metrics for a Chief Revenue Officer in 2024 including:ARR "Actual vs Plan" - the keep your job metricPipeline Performance - Coverage & EfficiencyNet Revenue RetentionCAC RatioCLTV:CAC RatioKey context to this episode, is it discusses 5 of the top metrics for a true Chief Revenue Officer, not a SVP/VP Sales with the CRO title. CROs are responsible for revenue growth across every stage of the customer lifecycle, and is a financial steward of the company focused on increasing enterprise value by leading the strategy and the execution of all processes that result in efficient, profitable revenue growth.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Rule of 40 has been the standard metric B2B SaaS investors and operators have used to measure balanced growth...will the Rule of 40 be surpassed by the new Rule of X recently created by Bessemer Ventures? Join Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike as they discuss the details about the Rule of X including:Foundational calculation formula for the Rule of XHow to find the "Growth Weighted" M in the formulaWhat is a good "Rule of X" scoreThe Rule of 40 has been around for over a decade - but it was missing one key variable....which is more important growth or profitability? Beyond that, if one variable is more important what are the respective weights of Growth and Profit?CAC and Growth have a little fun while diving deep into the details behind the Rule of X and the Rule of 40.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.