Podcast appearances and mentions of eleanor goldfield

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield cover Trump's new massive giveaway to the rich, cuts for the poor. Plus, Israel sh---ing at diplomats, and much more!To get FREE help navigating Medicare and Medicare Advantage, call 757-349-8232 or go to AskChapter.org/Camp *Chapter: Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and stand alone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your option. *Average potential savings are based on realized premium, co-pay, and out of pocket savings estimates self-reported by consumers that worked with Chapter Advisory LLC to enroll in a Medicare Supplement, Medicare Advantage, and/or Part D Prescription Drug Plan. The average is limited to consumers that chose to self-report. Savings information is subject to periodic updates and corrections. There is no guarantee of savings and any savings may vary by policy type, state, or other factors.

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield cover the breaking updates in Gaza, the new attack on Medicaid, and unleashing of ICE and much more!

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield cover the breaking updates in Gaza, the new attack on Medicaid, and unleashing of ICE and much more!

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield reveal the truth behind Trump's new UNHINGED federal budget PLUS India's attack on Pakistan, the police again go after Columbia students, and US contractors being used WHERE?! All that and more!To get FREE help to navigate Medicare and Medicare Advantage, call 757-349-8232 or go to AskChapter.org/Camp*Chapter: Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently, we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your option.*Average potential savings are based on realized premium, co-pay, and out of pocket savings estimates self-reported by consumers that worked with Chapter Advisory LLC to enroll in a Medicare Supplement, Medicare Advantage, and/or Part D Prescription Drug Plan. The average is limited to consumers that chose to self-report. Savings information is subject to periodic updates and corrections. There is no guarantee of savings and any savings may vary by policy type, state, or other factors.

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield reveal the truth behind Trump's new UNHINGED federal budget PLUS India's attack on Pakistan, the police again go after Columbia students, and US contractors being used WHERE?! All that and more!To get FREE help to navigate Medicare and Medicare Advantage, call 757-349-8232 or go to AskChapter.org/Camp*Chapter: Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan's contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently, we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all of your option.*Average potential savings are based on realized premium, co-pay, and out of pocket savings estimates self-reported by consumers that worked with Chapter Advisory LLC to enroll in a Medicare Supplement, Medicare Advantage, and/or Part D Prescription Drug Plan. The average is limited to consumers that chose to self-report. Savings information is subject to periodic updates and corrections. There is no guarantee of savings and any savings may vary by policy type, state, or other factors.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's program, which focuses on two major issues on U.S. campuses. First, a look at how universities (notably Columbia) have suppressed student protests against the Israeli genocide in Gaza and what explains the severity of those actions. Then, how are universities dealing with student complaints about faculty members? Are the processes fair? What are the implications for academic freedom? GUEST: Kei Pritzker is a journalist at Breakthrough News, and a co-director of the documentary “The Encampments.” Nick Wolfinger teaches at the University of Utah, and is the editor of the new book Professors Speak Out, which presents 22 accounts of campus investigations, as told by the faculty members involved.   The post Crackdown on Pro-Palestine Students / “Professors Speak Out” on Investigations appeared first on KPFA.

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield dig into how Trump's agenda is crashing into reality, PLUS a judge is arrested in Wisconsin and a former staffer for the Israeli Minister of Defense now works in the White House!

Lee Camp & Eleanor Goldfield dig into how Trump's agenda is crashing into reality, PLUS a judge is arrested in Wisconsin and a former staffer for the Israeli Minister of Defense now works in the White House!

Mickey Huff and Eleanor Goldfield co-host this week's program. They dedicate the hour to interviews about the 2025 “Izzy” Awards. Named for the famous muckraking reporter I.F. “Izzy” Stone (1907-1989), the annual awards honor outstanding works in independent journalism published during the preceding calendar year. Now in their 17th year, the awards are bestowed by the Park Center for Independent Media (PCIM) at Ithaca College in upstate New York. Chris Albright is a resident of East Palestine, Ohio, and a survivor of the 2023 railroad derailment, fire, and chemical spill. Max Alvarez is Editor-In-Chief at the Real News Network (www.therealnews.com). Victor Pickard is a media scholar at the University of Pennsylvania, and a member of the panel of judges for the Izzy Awards. Arielle Angel is the Editor of Jewish Currents magazine (www.jewishcurrents.org).   The post Honoring Independent Journalism: The 2025 “Izzy” Awards appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's Project Censored Show. Her first guest, Ben Price, speaks about the concept of “rights of nature” and how a legal system based on the control of “property” necessarily subordinates both the rights of humans and the rights of nature. In the second half of the program, Maya Schenwar and Kim Wilson examine the effects of the U.S. prison system on the families of prisoners and explain why “prisons are the canaries in the coal mine.” GUESTS: Ben Price is the education director at the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (www.CELDF.org). Maya Schenwar and Kim Wilson are the coeditors of the 2024 book, “We Grow the World Together,” a collection of essays on the impact of  imprisonment on families — especially the children of prisoners.   The post Rights of Humans, Rights of Nature / Incarceration and Families appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield speaks with Chip Gibbons, who details the acquiescence of academia and corporate media to the Trump  administration and Israel and sets these in the historical context of prior federal attacks on First Amendment rights. Next, Gene Bruskin explains the connection between the militarized U.S. economy and the daily pocketbook issues that confront American workers. GUESTS: Chip Gibbons is Policy Director at Defending Rights and Dissent (www.rightsanddissent.org), a free-speech-advocacy organization. His book on the history of the FBI is scheduled for release in 2026. He has a recent article in Jacobin magazine. Gene Bruskin is a 50-year labor activist, and the cofounder of the National Labor Network for a Cease-Fire.   The post Long history of attacks on free speech / How the militarized economy makes us poorer appeared first on KPFA.

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield discuss the new report that last year was the deadliest on record, PLUS reveal the very secretive geoengineering company that could change the planet (in a good or bad way). AND so much more!

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield discuss the new report that last year was the deadliest on record, PLUS reveal the very secretive geoengineering company that could change the planet (in a good or bad way). AND so much more!

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield reveal Israel's upcoming ground invasion, what the Tesla crash means and much more!

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield reveal Israel's upcoming ground invasion, what the Tesla crash means and much more!

Eleanor Goldfield opens the program, speaking with Gaza physician Khalil Khalidy about continuing aggression by Israel, despite the supposed Gaza cease-fire. He also explains how decades of Israeli occupation and travel restrictions have split Palestinian populations from one another, not only geographically, but also culturally. Later, Eleanor and Mickey Huff discuss recent under-reported or mis-reported stories, as well as corporate media's propensity to “normalize” abusive behavior the by U.S. government. Khalil Khalidy is an orthopedist in Deir al-Balah, Gaza.   The post Gaza's Reality, Propaganda, and the Fight for Justice appeared first on KPFA.

This week, a special Project Censored episode: “What To Us Is International Women's Day?,” a variation on the question asked by Frederick Douglass: What to the Slave is the 4th of July? March 8th is International Women's Day, and while many will and do celebrate this day in revolutionary ways, the truth is that IWD, like so many other holidays, is often used to serve the vehemently anti-feminist goals of the architects of our oppression. So-called white feminism perpetuates the evils of white supremacy, colonialism, capitalism, patriarchy, and imperialism — but with a femme facade, pushing us to ask what to us is an international women's day which doesn't seek to dismantle the very systems that use, abuse and torment women across the U.S. and the globe? Award-winning journalist Mnar Adley and organizer Afeni Evans will join Eleanor Goldfield for this special hour-long dive into the insidious machinations of white feminism, who gets violently othered and why, the internationalist demands of a revolutionary feminism, and what really to us, is — or could be — International Women's Day?   The post What To Us Is International Women's Day? appeared first on KPFA.

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield tackle the insanity of Trump's State of The Union speech and BlackRock's move to buy the pivotal points of the Panama Canal. And so much more! Also, tonight the 3rd episode of Unredacted Tonight! You can watch it for free here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DYxz1DZqoI

Lee Camp and Eleanor Goldfield tackle the insanity of Trump's State of The Union speech and BlackRock's move to buy the pivotal points of the Panama Canal. And so much more! Also, tonight the 3rd episode of Unredacted Tonight! You can watch it for free here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DYxz1DZqoI

Eleanor Goldfield is a journalist, filmmaker, and, more than anything, she's a creative radical. She co-hosts Common Censored and Project Censored. Also, I hope she doesn't mind my saying so, she put out some killer music a few years back. I've been following her for years now, and figured now was a perfect time for us to dive into the world.

Mickey Huff and Eleanor Goldfield co-host this week's Project Censored Show. In the first half of the program, Palestinian legal expert Hassan Ben Imran speaks with Eleanor about the continuing international-law case against Israel. He also expresses his concern that the Trump administration may surpass previous US administrations' defiance of rulings that go against the U.S., by actively attempting to defund and disempower agencies like the International Criminal Court. In the second half, Mickey Huff joins Eleanor for a discussion of recent news and news coverage, most notably major U.S. media's reluctance to cite estimates of the true death toll in Gaza or to tally the U.S. tax dollars that went to fund the genocide. Hassan Ben Imran is a member of the Governing Council of Law for Palestine and a PhD researcher in Law at the University of Galway, Ireland.     The post Gaza, Israel, and International law / U.S. media's failure on Gaza appeared first on KPFA.

In the first half of the program, Eleanor Goldfield interviews a Native American reporter who was arrested while covering a protest about land claims, despite showing the police his press credentials. Isaac White is a Mohawk journalist based in Akwesasne, upstate New York. His story highlights the importance of and dangers to local and Indigenous media. Then Mickey Huff speaks with John Collins, the founder of the independent journalism site weavenews.org, about the responsibilities of the non-corporate press in the years ahead, as the biases and failures of corporate media become increasingly evident. Collins is a professor emeritus of global studies at St. Lawrence University. He explains that journalism is too important to be left to the powers that be and what we need right now more than ever is news of, for, and by the people. John also talks about his books and years of work on Palestine and how Palestine is in fact not only an issue unto itself but also a lens for examining colonialism, capitalism, media, the politics of representation, and more.   The post The Special Challenges to Indigenous Reporting, a Case from NY / The Mandate for Grassroots Journalism appeared first on KPFA.

Join Lee and Eleanor Goldfield as they cover the DC plane crash, Trump saying he will be deporting those who stand up for Palestine, RFK Jr's downright hilarious Congressional confirmation hearing, and much more!

In the first part of the program, economist Dr. Richard Wolff joins co-host Eleanor Goldfield to set the record straight on what tariffs really are and how bizarrely hypocritical it is that the famously anti-tax republican party is now the party that wants a lot of taxes — taxes aimed at you and me. Professor Wolff also explains the wrong-headed thinking about immigration: in fact, steady immigration into the U.S. is and has been a sign of a healthy economy, so the fact that the nation can't and won't embrace immigration today is actually a big red flag that our economy is weak — as further evidenced by how well the BRICS nations are doing compared to the G7. In the second half, co-host Mickey Huff speaks with journalists Maya Schenwar and Negin Owliaei about how media must NOT back down to Trump's threats against press freedom. Maya and Negin outline the multi pronged attacks that journalists and media organizations are facing, remarking that none of us alone can surmount these problems but that real active solidarity and community building is key — along with contextualizing our today in the struggles of yesterday and NEVER complying in advance   The post Don't Get Distracted: Bitter Economic Pills and Threats to Free Press Hit Everyone appeared first on KPFA.

Join Lee and Eleanor Goldfield as they cover the DC plane crash, Trump saying he will be deporting those who stand up for Palestine, RFK Jr's downright hilarious Congressional confirmation hearing, and much more!

In the first half of today's show, co-host Eleanor Goldfield speaks with Leyna Quinn-Davidson, the Fire Network Director for the University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources about the confluence of issues that are quite literally fueling the fires in LA County. Leyna highlights how we have to shift our thinking about not only how fires burn but their historic and vital role in bolstering healthy ecosystems. She also pinpoints some simple actions people in the area can take to protect their homes and, perhaps more important, their communities, since what your neighbor does or doesn't do in these situations will directly affect you. In the second half, experienced conflict correspondent Theia Chatelle joins the program to talk about suing Yale PD, a frustrating but enlightening process that uncovered a vast and deep web of surveillance and repressive tactics aimed at students engaging in constitutionally protected speech and protest. Theia discusses the frightening levels of coordination between campus police, local and federal law enforcement, Zionist organizations, and even counter-terrorism agencies. She connects this to a larger pattern of repression across U.S. colleges, universities, and towns and cities beyond campus borders, where the panopticon-style surveillance follows anyone and everyone who could be deemed a threat to the status quo.   The post Lessons from the LA fires / Surveillance of Student Protesters: The Case of Yale appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's program. Her first guest is Shrouq Aila, a Palestinian journalist/producer and resident of the Gaza Strip. She describes daily life under Israeli invasion and genocide, Israel's targeting of reporters for assassination, and the challenges of living the story she covers. Then former State Department official Matthew Hoh shares his observations from a recent visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank and explains his belief that Israel's primary goal for the next several years is to displace the West Bank's remaining Palestinian population and annex the entire territory. GUESTS: Shrouq Aila is a Palestinian journalist/producer and resident of the Gaza Strip. She lost her husband in an Israeli attack. Her work can be found at www.instagram.com/shrouqaila. Matthew Hoh is a Marine Corps combat veteran, and a former State Department official.   The post Reporting Under Fire: Gaza, Genocide, and the Truth Behind the Headlines appeared first on KPFA.

Project Censored's new yearbook, “State of the Free Press 2025” is fresh off the presses. In the first segment, Andy Lee Roth and Shealeigh Voitl talk with Mickey about the extensive process that culminates in the selection of the annual “Top 25” censored stories. They also speak about the need to extend media analysis beyond fact-checking to “frame-checking.” In the second half, Mickey and co-host Eleanor Goldfield speak about Eleanor's new article on media literacy for activists, including various ideas on how activists can successfully interact with the different categories of media. Mickey and Eleanor also alert listeners to the dangers of House Bill 9495, a measure that would empower the U.S. Treasury Secretary to unilaterally remove an organization's non-profit status. GUESTS: Andy Lee Roth is Associate Director of Project Censored and the coordinator of the Project's Campus Affiliates Program. Shealeigh Voitl is digital and print editor at Project Censored.   The post Unplugging the News: The Fight for Local Journalism and the State of the Free Press (encore) appeared first on KPFA.

Project Censored's new yearbook, “State of the Free Press 2025” is fresh off the presses. In the first segment, Andy Lee Roth and Shealeigh Voitl talk with Mickey about the extensive process that culminates in the selection of the annual “Top 25” censored stories. They also speak about the need to extend media analysis beyond fact-checking to “frame-checking.” In the second half, Mickey and co-host Eleanor Goldfield speak about Eleanor's new article on media literacy for activists, including various ideas on how activists can successfully interact with the different categories of media. Mickey and Eleanor also alert listeners to the dangers of House Bill 9495, a measure that would empower the U.S. Treasury Secretary to unilaterally remove an organization's non-profit status. GUESTS: Andy Lee Roth is Associate Director of Project Censored and the coordinator of the Project's Campus Affiliates Program. Shealeigh Voitl is digital and print editor at Project Censored.   The post Unplugging the News: The Fight for Local Journalism and the State of the Free Press appeared first on KPFA.

The News That Didn't Make the News. Each week, co-hosts Mickey Huff and Eleanor Goldfield conduct in depth interviews with their guests and offer hard hitting commentary on the key political, social, and economic issues of the day with an emphasis on critical media literacy. The post Project Censored – December 6, 2024 appeared first on KPFA.

The voices of Palestinians in Gaza are some of the most censored in the world. When not killed outright, they are silenced by purposeful omission, in order to support Israel's narrative. It is therefore vital that alternative media work to find and platform these voices and that people who are not fooled by pro-Israel propaganda engage with them, share them, and allow them to inform our actions. This week Eleanor Goldfield sits down with Dr. Khalil Khalidy, an orthopedic doctor in Gaza. His testimony is necessary, powerful, and understandably distressing. We are therefore including a content warning for this week's show, as Dr. Khalidy does not sugarcoat his lived experiences. The following program includes descriptions of an ongoing genocide and of psychological and physical suffering from the perspective of a doctor trying to work in abominable conditions with little to no supplies. Khalil Khalidy is an orthopedist in Deir al-Balah, Gaza. He is also trained in psychology.   The post Voices from Palestine: A Doctor's Testimony from Gaza appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield is joined on this week's program with a special guest co-host: Maximillian Alvarez, Editor-in-Chief at the Real News Network. Their subject is the Julian Assange case and its implications for press freedom going forward. Their guests provide a recap of the case and new information on why the U.S. abandoned its years-long effort to extradite Assange from the UK and instead agreed to a plea bargain under which the Wikileaks founder was freed. GUESTS: Chip Gibbons is Policy Director at Defending Rights and Dissent, www.rightsanddissent.org. Kevin Gosztola is the editor of the Dissenter newsletter, www.thedissenter.org. His book on the Julian Assange case, Guilty of Journalism, was published in 2023.   The post The Julian Assange Case and the Future of Journalism appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's show. July 26 marked the 34th anniversary of the signing of the Americans With Disabilities Act. But is the ADA as far-reaching as it should be? Are the large disability-rights organizations keeping too close to the country's ruling institutions and, in doing so, defeating their own professed objectives? In the first segment of the show, Eleanor's guests talk about the limitations of the ADA and the inherent lapses that disability-rights groups make by not confronting the institutions that inflict disabilities and worsen the lives of those already living with disabilities, most notably in Gaza. In the second half, Eleanor and guests discuss the prospect of humans inhabiting Mars: is it a harmless sci-fi concept, or are “astro-colonial” ideas a distraction from the urgency of addressing the climate crisis on planet Earth? Jen Deerinwater and Ezra Star are members of Disability Divest (www.disabilitydivest.org), a collective that demands that “the disability establishment ends its relationships with war profiteers.” Zara Zimbardo is one of the creators of “Marsification” (www.marsification.com), a concept album that explores the idea of inhabiting space and finds it to be a continuation of colonialist ideology.   The post Systemic failure of major disability organizations / What is Marsification? appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's show. In the first half-hour, we hear the story of a Texas prison inmate, his struggle to publicize the abuses that go on behind the walls, and the prison authorities' efforts to suppress his work and retaliate against him. We also discuss the significance of prison journalism in the overall battle for press freedom. In the second half, the latest about Palestine, the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and the International Criminal Court (ICC). A legal expert examines the recent ICJ opinion on the illegality of the Israeli occupation, as well as the ICC's possible issuance of an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Resources on Incarceration: www.securustech.net prisonjournalismproject.org themarshallproject.org GUESTS: Jeremy Busby, inmate #00881193 in the Texas prison system, is a journalist who covers prison life from the inside. His writing can be found at freedom.press and other outlets. His personal web site is www.joinjeremy.org. Seth Stern is Director of Advocacy at Freedom of the Press Foundation (www.freedom.press). Hassan Ben Imran is a member of the governing council of Law for Palestine (www.law4palestine.org) and a researcher in law at the University of Galway in Ireland.   The post Journalism behind bars / Palestine and international law appeared first on KPFA.

In the first half of the show, cohost Eleanor Goldfield speaks with Juley Fulcher — attorney and worker health and safety advocate for Public Citizen's Congress watch division — about her recent report, Scorched States, an expose of the inadequate or wholly lacking protections for workers facing extreme heat in the age of climate chaos. Juley describes the legislative morass standing in the way of workers' rights and how states like Florida and Texas have actually made it illegal to protect workers. Next, Mickey Huff joins Eleanor for a conversation about whether the corporate media are accurately covering immigration or, instead, are exaggerating the differences between the Biden and Trump administrations' immigration practices.   The post Scorched States, Where Heat Kills Workers / Media and Immigration Narratives appeared first on KPFA.

Ten months in, the US role in Israel's genocide in Gaza goes far beyond complicity. Israel is butchering Palestinians with US bombs, funding, and political and military support, and some members of the US military are resigning in protest. In this episode of the Project Censored Show, which is now syndicated by TRNN, host Eleanor Goldfield speaks with Palestinian-American Mohammed Abouhashem, who on Oct. 21 of last year left the US Air Force after 22 years of service. Abouhashem discusses his decision to leave amidst the murder of six of his family members in Palestine. He describes the ongoing genocide through a lens of military experience, highlighting how Israel and its ally the US are well aware of the civilian casualties—an awareness that, for Mohammed, made any further military service impossible.In the second segment of the show, Goldfield speaks with filmmaker Kym Staton about his film 'Trust Fall,' which was recently released in the US. The documentary chronicles the personal and professional life of Julian Assange as well as the US case against him. Staton makes clear the importance of this story and case, even after Assange won his freedom, and offers insight into the remarkable smear campaign against him and how people power is the key to not only combating misinformation, but in freeing one of the most significant political prisoners of our time.Read a transcript of this podcast here. Help us continue producing radically independent news and in-depth analysis by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer.Sign up for our newsletterLike us on FacebookFollow us on TwitterDonate to support this podcast

In the first part of the program, Eleanor Goldfield speaks with journalist and analyst Ben Norton about the ongoing proxy war between Russia and NATO happening in Ukraine, the bludgeoning of multiple peace deals by the U.S., and the ultimately pointless struggle against a multipolar world. Ben also highlights the recent media kerfuffle on the petrodollar: what it is, why it matters, and where our economy is headed. Next, Eleanor speaks with Swedish actor, writer, and activist Håkan Julander about Sweden's fall from grace — the country that isn't what you think it is. Håkan outlines the abysmal state of Swedish media, the selling of Sweden's soul to a declining empire, where hope lies, and more.   The post The Motives for Ukraine Intervention / What Happened to Sweden? appeared first on KPFA.

In the first half of the show, Eleanor Goldfield speaks with professor and author Mohammed Bamyeh about the no-state solution, an idea rooted in Palestinian and regional history that speaks of legitimate liberation in the face of continued state-imposed oppression and colonialist violence. Mohammed also explains the origins and outgrowth of fundamentalism and the need to go beyond realism when reality has failed and continues to fail the people. In the second half, Eleanor speaks with journalist and author John Washington about his book, The Case For Open Borders, and the historic, economic, political, and environmental reasons why and how open borders would not only be possible but beneficial to all. John also highlights the contradictions and hypocrisies of borders, the inefficacy of militarized borders, and the very real effects of the recent Biden administration move to essentially close the border. Mohammed Bamyeh is Professor of Sociology at the University of Pittsburgh. His areas of scholarship include anarchism, revolution, religion, and the Arab world. John Washington is a staff writer for Arizona Luminaria (azluminaria.org). His work has also been published in the Atlantic, the Nation, the New York Review of Books, and elsewhere.   The post The No-State Solution & The Case For Open Borders appeared first on KPFA.

In the first half of the show, cofounder and executive director of Shout Your Abortion Amelia Bonow joins Eleanor Goldfield to highlight the shifting times and paradigms on abortion access. Amelia points out that abortion has always been difficult to access for millions of women in the U.S, even before the Supreme Court's reversal of its 49-year-old Roe vs Wade decision. But Bonow says changing attitudes, and the near-universal availability of abortion pills, mean that choice is still possible, despite repressive state laws. Then, Kevin Gosztola returns to the show to discuss with Mickey Huff the latest news on — and hope for — Julian Assange. This includes a recent ruling by the UK High Court of Justice that could complicate or even halt the Biden Administration's efforts to extradite Assange to the U.S. Kevin and Mickey also take note of new attacks on press freedom and whistleblower rights taking place in the U.S., Israel, and Australia, among other nations.   The post The Fight for Abortion Rights in 2024 / New Hope for Julian Assange appeared first on KPFA.

The News That Didn't Make the News. Each week, co-hosts Mickey Huff and Eleanor Goldfield conduct in depth interviews with their guests and offer hard hitting commentary on the key political, social, and economic issues of the day with an emphasis on critical media literacy. The post Project Censored – May 10, 2024 appeared first on KPFA.

This is a segment of episode 361 of Last Born In The Wilderness, “To The Trees: Diversifying Tactics To Defend The Sacred w/ Eleanor Goldfield.” Listen to the full episode: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com/episodes/eleanor-goldfield Learn more about To The Trees and how to watch: https://tothetreesfilm.com / https://eleanorg.gumroad.com Journalist and filmmaker Eleanor Goldfield joins me to discuss her documentary To the Trees, which documents humankind's relationship to the sacred Redwoods and the tactics tree defenders use to protect old-growth forests from the clear-cutting practices of the lumber industry. In our discussion, Eleanor disputes the claims made by the industry of practicing sustainable harvesting practices in the Pacific Northwest, and how it is part and parcel of a larger global effort by extractive industries to greenwash ecologically destructive practices in the name of sustainability and the "green energy" transition. Eleanor Goldfield is a creative radical, journalist and filmmaker. Mutual aid and community organizing are cornerstones of Eleanor's work and personal life, informing both her journalistic and artistic projects. Her written and photojournalism has appeared in independent publications across the U.S. and internationally. She is one of the 2020 recipients of the “Women and Media Award” presented by The Women's Institute for Freedom of the Press. Recently, she released her first solo EP, titled “No Solo,” after more than a decade fronting the political hard rock band Rooftop Revolutionaries. Her recent documentary film, To The Trees covers forest defense tactics in Northern California and our relationship to nature. Her first documentary Hard Road of Hope covers the radical history and present struggles in West Virginia and has been widely acclaimed. Currently, Eleanor is the co-host and associate producer of the Project Censored Show, and co-host of the podcast Common Censored along with Lee Camp. WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/lastborninthewilderness DONATE: https://www.paypal.me/lastbornpodcast SUBSTACK: https://lastborninthewilderness.substack.com BOOK LIST: https://bookshop.org/shop/lastbornpodcast DROP ME A LINE: Call (208) 918-2837 or http://bit.ly/LBWfiledrop EVERYTHING ELSE: https://linktr.ee/patterns.of.behavior

Six months into the US-Israeli genocide in Gaza, there is little use denying that what is taking place before our eyes is an intended land grab. Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich have called for Gaza to be "resettled" and for the Palestinian population to be expelled. And in the US, the likes of Ben Gvir and Smotrich have their allies and accomplices who hope to profit from the theft of Palestinian land. Across the US, real estate events advertising the sale of land parcels in Gaza, the West Bank, and Jerusalem have begun to appear. Activist, journalist, and filmmaker Eleanor Goldfield joins The Marc Steiner Show to discuss the recent protests against one such real estate event in Baltimore.Studio Production: Cameron GranadinoPost-Production: Alina NehlichHelp us continue producing The Marc Steiner Show by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer.Donate: https://therealnews.com/donate-pod-mssSign up for our newsletter: https://therealnews.com/nl-pod-stLike us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/therealnewsFollow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/therealnews Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-marc-steiner-show--4661751/support.

In the first half of the show, researcher and U.S. military veteran Christian Sorensen joins Eleanor Goldfield to discuss the business of war, the mapping of it, the remarkable spread of it, and the very real ability and need to shift this trillion dollar industry to something more sustainable and peaceful. Sorensen explains how the military industrial complex in this country is the classic definition of fascism, and why confronting this uncomfortable fact is quite simply necessary for a livable future. Then, we welcome Professor Richard Wolff back on the show, this time to articulate the dangerous delusions of American Exceptionalism that are hurting not only us but our allies in Europe as well. Professor Wolff outlines extreme miscalculations vis-à-vis Russia, China, and Israel; how right-wing fear mongering is failing; and the hope that's building on the horizon, thanks to leftist organizing and campaigning.   The post Who Profits from U.S. Wars? / The Cost of American Delusions appeared first on KPFA.

Journalist and filmmaker Eleanor Goldfield joins me to discuss her documentary To the Trees, which documents humankind's relationship to the sacred Redwoods and the tactics tree defenders use to protect old-growth forests from the clear-cutting practices of the lumber industry. In our discussion, Eleanor disputes the claims made by the industry of practicing sustainable harvesting practices in the Pacific Northwest, and how it is part and parcel of a larger global effort by extractive industries to greenwash ecologically destructive practices in the name of sustainability and the "green energy" transition. Eleanor Goldfield is a creative radical, journalist and filmmaker. Mutual aid and community organizing are cornerstones of Eleanor's work and personal life, informing both her journalistic and artistic projects. Her written and photojournalism has appeared in independent publications across the U.S. and internationally. She is one of the 2020 recipients of the “Women and Media Award” presented by The Women's Institute for Freedom of the Press. Recently, she released her first solo EP, titled “No Solo,” after more than a decade fronting the political hard rock band Rooftop Revolutionaries. Her recent documentary film, To The Trees covers forest defense tactics in Northern California and our relationship to nature. Her first documentary Hard Road of Hope covers the radical history and present struggles in West Virginia and has been widely acclaimed. Currently, Eleanor is the co-host and associate producer of the Project Censored Show, and co-host of the podcast Common Censored along with Lee Camp. Episode Notes: - Learn more about To The Trees and how to watch: https://tothetreesfilm.com / https://eleanorg.gumroad.com - Read Eleanor's article, Forest Defense Is About More Than the Trees. It's About Our Collective Future, at Truthout: https://truthout.org/articles/forest-defense-is-about-more-than-the-trees-its-about-our-collective-future/ - Learn more about all of Eleanor's work: https://artkillingapathy.com - Learn more about Project Censored and listen and subscribe to the Common Censored podcast: https://www.projectcensored.org / https://commoncensored.libsyn.com - The song featured is “Kodoma” by Nick Vander from the album Kodama (Nowaki's Selection), used with permission by the artist. Listen and purchase at: https://nickvander.bandcamp.com WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/lastborninthewilderness DONATE: https://www.paypal.me/lastbornpodcast SUBSTACK: https://lastborninthewilderness.substack.com BOOK LIST: https://bookshop.org/shop/lastbornpodcast DROP ME A LINE: Call (208) 918-2837 or http://bit.ly/LBWfiledrop EVERYTHING ELSE: https://linktr.ee/patterns.of.behavior

In the first half of the show, Libertie Valance and Cindy Barukh Milstein join host Eleanor Goldfield to talk about how a small co-op bookshop in Asheville, NC came to be the keeper of more than 20,000 youth books banned in Florida, as well as the emergence of the Banned Books Back! initiative and how a growing connection of people across state lines are finding creative ways to circumvent the rise of book bans. Next, professor, author, and organizer Nicole Fabricant joins the show to talk to us about Curtis Bay: a sacrifice zone microcosm, one that is mirrored all over the nation and indeed the world. Nicole highlights how primarily black and brown communities are overburdened not just by pollution and corporate malfeasance but by the need to become their own scientists, doctors, and advocates. She shares powerful stories of autonomous youth organizing, and how we are, in fact, all sacrificed to corporate greed. GUESTS: Libertie Valance and Cindy Barukh Milstein work at Firestorm, an anarchist co-op bookstore in Asheville, NC. Their bookstore accepted 22,500 copies of books banned from Duval County elementary schools, and are donating the books to families in Duval County. Many of the banned titles feature Black, Brown, Asian, Indigenous, or LGBT characters. More information is available at the bookstore's web site. Nicole Fabricant teaches at Towson University in the Baltimore area. She's the author of Fighting to Breathe: Race, Toxicity and the Rise of Youth Activism In Baltimore.   The post Banned Books Back! / We Are All Sacrifice Zones appeared first on KPFA.

A new book edited by a trio of media scholars tracks the spread of censorship across countries and across the media spectrum. All three co-editors join Mickey to explain their disturbing findings. Then, Mickey and co-host Eleanor Goldfield discuss the widely published story of supposed mass rape by Hamas fighters on October 7, and the New York Times' refusal, to date, to acknowledge that its story has been debunked. Eleanor also speaks about her recent article on her own experience of lacking housing and how corporate media's choice of language facilitates discrimination against unsheltered people as an “other.” GUESTS: Robin Andersen is Professor Emerita of Communications at Fordham University. Steve Macek teaches at North Central College in suburban Chicago. Nolan Higdon is a lecturer in Education at the University of California Santa Cruz campus. They are the co-editors of Censorship, Digital Media, and the Global Crackdown on Freedom of Expression.   The post Deconstructing Media Propaganda and Framing, from War to the Unhoused appeared first on KPFA.

Journalist and filmmaker Eleanor Goldfield joins me to discuss her documentary To the Trees, which documents the sacred Redwoods and the tactics tree defenders use to protect old-growth forests from the clear-cutting practices of the lumber industry. In our discussion, Eleanor disputes the claims made by the industry of practicing sustainable harvesting practices in the Pacific Northwest, and how it is part and parcel of a larger global effort by extractive industries to greenwash ecologically destructive practices in the name of sustainability and the "green energy" transition. Listen to the full interview: https://www.patreon.com/lastborninthewilderness

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week. In the first segment, a French farmer explains the complex politics behind the recent wave of mass protests by farmers, as well as the economic squeeze that government policies impose on them. Next, in a brief “intermission,” Eleanor and Mickey discuss recent failures of corporate media and consider whether old media has abandoned any hope of building a substantial audience among the generation now coming of age. We conclude by discussing legislation to expose vast tracts of southeast Alaskan forest to logging, under a pretense of returning the land to Native Alaskan authority. David Lorant is a farmer based in Rennes, northwest France. Joshua Wright is a filmmaker and forest-defense activist.   The post Why are farmers protesting in France? / Huge logging scheme disguised as land-back bill appeared first on KPFA.

Eleanor Goldfield hosts this week's Project Censored Show. Her first guest, Alan MacLeod, explains how some of the largest media institutions slant their Gaza coverage to favor Israel and even dismiss journalists who don't comply. He also warns of a neocon effort to push the U.S. into attacking Iran. The second half of the show looks at how hazardous uranium mining on and near Native territory in the Southwest is likely to persist and increase, even near the Grand Canyon, owing to various legal loopholes. Alan MacLeod is Senior Staff Writer at Mint Press News, and a frequent guest on the Project Censored Show. He's also the author of the 2018 book “Bad News From Venezuela.” Leona Morgan is a Diné (“Navajo”) anti-nuclear organizer. Information related to the campaign to halt nuclear colonialism in the American Southwest can be found at haulno.com.   The post Big Media's pro-Israel bias / Native people resist uranium mining appeared first on KPFA.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Eleanor Goldfield comes on to talk about her film, "To the Trees," a documentary that highlights forest defense tactics in Northern California. The film is meant to call into question our current relationships to nature, how we might reframe them, and why that reframing is vital to our survival and having a livable future. Guest Info Eleanor Goldfield (she/her) is a filmmaker and journalist who works to highlight different movement and struggles. You can find her work and her film "To the Trees" at tothetreesfilm.com and artkillingapathy.com. Eleanor can also be found on Twitter @RadicalEleanor and Instagram @RadicalEleanor Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Live Like the World is Dying: Eleanor on "To the Trees" & Forest Defense **Inmn ** 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host today, Inmn Neruin, and I use they/them pronouns. Today we are talking to a filmmaker about a really beautiful film called To the Trees. And I'm really excited for you all to hear this conversation. We're going to talk a lot about logging and forest defense and just kind of like the extraction industry in general, and then just about some, you know, cultural or psychological paradigms that we have around resource extraction. But first, we are a proud member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchists podcasts. And here is a jingle from another show on that network.  **Inmn ** 01:40 And we're back. Hi, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Could you introduce yourself with your name, pronouns, and a little bit about your background, and what you're here to talk about today?  **Eleanor ** 01:55 Sure, thanks so much for having me. My name is Eleanor Goldfield. She/her. I'm a queer creative, radical filmmaker, and journalist. And I've been doing frontline--I hesitate to say activism--I've been doing frontline actions and journalism since 2010 together. And before that I'd been doing organizing and community organizing since about 2003, before the second Iraq War. And I'm here today to talk about my latest offering in the film domain, which is called, "To the Trees," and it's about forest defense tactics in so-called Northern California and also about our relationship to nature and the necessary shift that that must take for us to have a livable future. **Inmn ** 02:50 Cool, um--I mean, not cool that a film like this needs to get made but cool that a film like this now exists and can teach people a lot of really awesome things. I highly encourage everyone to go out and watch the movie. It's really wonderful. It's really beautiful. But could you kind of give us just like a recap of the movie. **Eleanor ** 03:17 Sure. Yeah, and the films available at ToTheTreesfilm.com. And all of my work is also available at ArtKillingApathy.com. So kind of a general overview of the film is that I went out there to do.... This is kind of how I work. I ask folks if they need any support--and I'm ground support, by the way, because I don't do heights. Although, I did climb a redwood when I was out there, which was a terrifying experience. And I'm never doing it again. **Inmn ** 03:49 They're so big,  **Eleanor ** 03:51 They're ginormous. And that was my first...that was the first tree I decided to climb because...yeah, whatever. And it took me 45 minutes. And it's 200 feet up in the air, and I was terrified. And it took me like 15 minutes to get up the courage just to step off the platform. And the tree sitter, they were like, "You just step up," and I'm like, "What do you just step up? I'm gonna die," and they're like, "No, you're not. You're gonna be fine. I swear" and I'm like, "Oh God, this is so terrifying." And they're like, "Yeah, maybe you are ground support." **Inmn ** 04:20 Ground support is crucial. **Eleanor ** 04:23 It is crucial. Yes. And it's very much.... That's very much me. I was built to like just be grounded, I think. So I went out there basically saying, "I would love to help you all and do support and also, if it's cool with you, I'll bring a camera and I'd love to just hear some of your stories." And so folks were cool with that. And so there I go, traipsing into the woods. And it's a beautiful tree village. And the redwood forests, if folks have never seen them, I mean it's like Narnia. You know the forest floor is Like this plush, you know, soft and welcoming space. And then you look up and it's like the trees are so tall that you can barely see the crowns. It's just kind of like this green haze above you. And so I just started talking to folks and talked to a couple of tree sitters. I also spoke with somebody who does more of the judicial side of things, like trying to get forest...or like logging companies in court and how that kind of works with tree sitters. And then I also spoke to an indigenous woman, Marnie Atkins, who is a member of the Wiyot tribe, spoke to her a lot about perspectives on what's going on in these forests and the paradigms that are different between her people and the colonizers who came. And so it's kind of a.... [trails off] I call it at the end, I have this, I have this slide that says, "To the trees: It's a dedication, a call to action, a promise, and a militant apology." And I wanted folks to feel that, that it's an offering and it's also an invitation, not just to act in whatever ways we can but also to question the way that we think about these beautiful places, whether they be the redwood forests or whether they be the the ecosystems that are outside your front door. **Inmn ** 06:42 Yeah, yeah. And it's.... I feel funny that this is one of my first questions, but it was one of the pieces of the film that kind of really got me--it's like always knowing that Capitalism uses things for really silly things--but learning that the main use of redwood trees is to just turn them into kind of crappy decks. Is that right? **Eleanor ** 07:12 Yeah, yeah, it's based on market forces. The best use of a redwood tree is decking. And not only that, but redwoods can be 2000 years old. And of course, if you were to chop down a 2000 year old tree--which by the way, there's no law against it in California or anywhere else in the in the United States--if you were to do that, yes, that deck would last a while--it wouldn't last 2000 years--it would last a while. But the way that they cut down trees at the rate--because of course, no one's gonna wait 2000 years--they cut down these trees in their infancy. So the strong heartwood of the tree has not had a chance to develop. And so you're cutting down these trees, you know, destroying any future that they might have to rebuild an ecosystem, and you're turning them into a deck that is not even going to last like a decade because it's just not made of wood that has had a chance to mature. And so you're literally destroying burgeoning ecosystems for the sake of a deck that is going to last less than, you know, the length of a Britney Spears' single. It's just...it's ridiculous. **Inmn ** 08:35 Yeah, yeah, I feel like that's one of the harder things that I struggle with when really thinking about industrial Capitalism is just the...it's like the cost of what it...like what it costs to do to the planet versus what is gotten from that. And it's not even like, oh, you're gonna get something that's like, "We cut down this tree and it's gonna last this family multi-generations," you know, it's like a piece of shit that's gonna rot and fall apart in a decade.  **Eleanor ** 09:12 And that's the whole, you know, that's one of the primary issues with Capitalism is that it treats things that are finite, like trees and clean air and clean water, as if they're infinite. And it treats things that are infinite, like ones and zeros on a computer, as if they're finite. Like, "Oh, we don't have the money." And, I mean, it's like--I can't remember who it was-- maybe it was Alan Watts, who said, "That's kind of like saying, 'You don't have enough inches to build a house.'" Like that doesn't make any sense. Like of course you have more money because you just make it up. It's all a fairy tale. Whereas the things that we can't just make up like a 2000 year old tree or a clean river, you treat as entirely disposable, and that is one of the primary issues with the paradigm of Capitalism and thereby colonialism, which was the battering ram of Capitalism. **Inmn ** 10:08 Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what are the life cycles or growth cycles or logging cycles like in places that are being [testing words] harvested? Destroyed? Whichever word.  **Eleanor ** 10:34 Yeah, that's that euphemism, right? "Oh, we're just harvesting." No! So, basically, there are several different cycles that can be used. I think one of the shortest ones for redwoods is 45 or 50 years. So if you clear-cut and then you--and redwoods are actually one of the few trees that can sprout, like from a stump. Like it's self...I can't remember what it's called. Self-sprouting or something? And so you have to wait 45 or 50 years. Now, whether they always do that or not, is up for debate, especially depending on what they're hoping to get from the products. But it's 45 or 50 years. Some will say, "Oh, we're gonna leave this plot for 100 years," or whatever. And again, whether that's done or not, is up for debate. And it's also difficult because industrial logging has only been around since like, you know, 120 years or so. So when we talk about the amount of time you really need to grow these forests, it's like we're going back to a time before this was even a conversation because you couldn't possibly tear down the forests that quickly. And so we're in this kind of odd liminal space where people are talking about, "Oh, we're gonna have to let this grow again for 100 years," but 100 years ago this wasn't even a contemplation. And so the cycles are based on, again, like the market forces. LIke, okay, well, at 45 or 50 years these trees will be ready to be harvested and then can be used to do whatever we want with them, you know? Truck them off to the sawmill. And that, again, is it.... Well, I could go off into so many different tangents, but I'll pause. **Inmn ** 12:36 I do.... We love tangents. We love rants. So this wasn't surprising to me, but I've spent like a little bit of time in the coal fields of West Virginia, and it seems like there's this kind of similar thing in logging where there's a strong guidance to preserve the cardboard frame of what things look like from a road or something, you know, so it's like the devastation appears a lot less impactful. I am curious what kind of lengths or strategies logging companies go to--or the State goes to--to make it seem like nothing all that bad is happening? **Eleanor ** 13:25 Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny you brought up West Virginia because my first documentary was actually about West Virginia. And I talked a lot about the coal fields. And I actually did a flight above them because you can't--I mean, to your point--you can't see it from the roads. And you can really only see the vast devastation if you're up in a plane. Or if you have a drone or something like that. So in California, they call it the 'visual impact' or commonly called 'the beauty screen.' And it's this idea that, particularly Inmnorthern California--because Northern California, unlike West Virginia, which is very proud of its coal, Northern California doesn't want you to think it's proud of logging--it wants you to think that it's super proud of the trees, which is really twisted. **Inmn ** 14:21 Yeah. Yeah. **Eleanor ** 14:22 It's like being a serial killer and then being like, "I have a human rights organization." So they will.... Right before you get to a lot of these THPs, that's timber harvest plans, you're driving through, for instance, the Avenue of the Giants, which is part of a redwood forest, Redwood National Forest, and it's gorgeous, right? And you would never think that just a few miles up in the hills there are these vast bald spots. And so they want to ensure that that stays the case, right? So you just keep driving and you keep driving up the one on one and you just see trees and then the Pacific Ocean is over here and you're like, "Oh my god, California is amazing!"  **Inmn ** 15:06 "We love trees!" **Eleanor ** 15:07 Right. But it's being destroyed. And you can't see that. And it's very important that you can't see that because the companies that own this land--because most of it is privately owned logging land--and the companies have this like...one of the guys in the film says, "This eco groovy PR campaign and this facade." And they want you to think that everything is done respectfully and sustainably when, of course, you can't clear-cut sustainably. So they want to make sure that you can't see it because that would fly in the face of their 'eco groovy facade.' And part of that is also that they have a certification, which is called FSC, Forest Stewardship Council certification. Which if you've ever been to a Home Depot or Lowe's, oftentimes FSC wood will be more expensive because the idea is that it's sustainable. And so you get to feel good about yourself, you know, like, "Oh, sweet, this isn't from a clear-cut," but it is. And the Forest Stewardship Council, even if it started with honorable aims, is a complete...it's just a rubber stamp for the logging industry. And there's been a long list of horribleness, including stealing indigenous land, clear-cutting old growth forests, and you know, and yet they have that little FSC stamp. So people think, consumers think, that this is done sustainably. But of course, it's not. And so this is all part of that greenwashing campaign, whether it be the 'beauty screen' or the FSC stamp, it's all part of that push to ensure that the consumer remains in the dark and thinks that, particularly, Northern California is sustainably harvesting their, in quotes, 'harvesting' these trees and ensuring that they will be around forever. **Inmn ** 17:09 Golly, yeah. And I imagine people also...like the consumer on the end of like...they, you know, they go into Home Depot, or they're hiring a contractor to build their crappy deck, I'm sure they're really ecstatic that they have this...are getting this redwood deck. Like, I feel like it's just the name, you know, "Redwood," it sounds so majestic. It sounds so like, "Wow, this is gonna last me a really long time."  Is that kind of like part of it too, do you think?  **Eleanor ** 17:44 Yeah, I think it sounds.... You know, I was in bands for years, and people used to talk about the wood that went into their instruments like, "Oh, it's mahogany neck." and someone's like, "Oh! It's a mahogany neck." **Inmn ** 17:57 It's an electric guitar...like it doesn't matter. **Eleanor ** 18:01 And sure, I mean,as a former audio tech, I can be like, okay, I've heard the difference in acoustic guitars where you're like, "Okay. That. Yes." But it is also pretty.... I mean, mahogany is not endangered in that sense. But still, it's pretty twisted to be like, "Yeah, the best way to use this tree is to turn it into an instrument or a deck or whatever. It's that like, again, in Capitalism, nothing has inherent value in and of itself. Nobody's like, "Oh, wow, an oak tree! That's super cool!" Everyone's like, "Hmm, what can I do with that?" It's like, maybe you could just leave it the fuck alone. I don't know, Maybe that could be a thing? But nothing in Capitalism has inherent value in and of itself. So it always has to be twisted and contorted into something. And that carries with it a certain status, right? Like, oh, if you have this deck made out of redwood or if you have that guitar made out of mahogany, it becomes a status symbol. And so that is also part of like the poisoning that is Capitalism, psychologically, I feel.  **Inmn ** 19:06 Golly, I wish--I know, this is a recurring theme on the show--but if only our lives were more like those of hobbits. I mean, they just have a Party Tree, and that's a community resource. And they're like, "We need a party tree. It needs to be like 3000 years old and that's a party tree." If it's not 3000 years old. It's not a Party Tree. Or, yeah, the forest on the edge of town that everyone's like too afraid to go into. **Eleanor ** 19:40 Yeah, well, and this is actually something that I think is funny, too, that we have so many stories, whether that be through, you know, Lord of the Rings, or like when I was growing up, I partially grew up in Sweden, and there's so many stories still today about the Forest and its power. And I feel like that's also an interesting relationship that we have with the forest is that we are a little bit afraid of it. And that also...that also pushes us into this relationship where, okay, well, I'm gonna conquer my fears, right? As opposed to the stories--and there are these stories even in European cultures--that talk about the beauty of the forest and what the forest gives us. But that's also an interesting dynamic between a lot of Indigenous stories that I've heard where, yes, there might be like some being that lives in the forest that you don't want to interact with. But a lot of it is also about how, "Oh my gosh, look at all of the beauty and the life that we get from the forest," as opposed to, "Woods are terrifying. Don't mess with them at all. Just don't go there." It's like, but that's also going to dictate how you feel about cutting down a bunch of trees. **Inmn ** 21:04 Yeah, it's wild that fear of the forest means we have to destroy the forest. It's a bad mentality. As much as I love a story about the Dark Forest, you know, and wish that that was like a more sustainable option, growing a more deep connection to the forest is probably a more sustainable way to go about things. Did you ever see Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind?  **Eleanor ** 21:33 Yes, I did.   **Inmn ** 21:34 Yeah. Incredible movie about a toxic forest that will fucking kill everyone who comes into it. Because it eventually was like, "No humans. You can't. No, I can't take anymore. Here's poison." **Eleanor ** 21:50 Don't blame it really.  **Inmn ** 21:52 Yeah, and it's like, "No, I need several thousand years to recuperate from the harm that you've done and eventually I'll be a forest you can come in again." **Eleanor ** 22:04 Right. Right. Well, and I think... We talk about that in mutual aid spaces, or in organizing spaces, like, okay, if harm has been caused and there needs to be time to recover then possibly we can get to the point where we can be in community together with that person who did the harm.... It's like, we do that as humans. And it's necessary, right? And that is exactly what ecosystems need too. Like, the idea of--this is also how we fuck it up in terms of the Capitalist mentality--the idea of like, "Oh, we're going to leave that to grow for another 45 years before we cut it down again," that's not allowing a relationship to recuperate, right? That is, once again, treating something in that violent way, like the violence of ownership versus stewardship, right? Like, ownership is a violent relationship--I mean, just look at slavery--but stewardship suggests a respect. And I think there's also space for fear there, too, right? I think that, you know, when I was a kid walking through woods, I would feel a little...maybe a little scared, but I would also feel safe, like, "Oh, I'm safe within the woods." So I think we can carry both of those at once. And I think that sometimes when you have a deep respect for something, there might be a moment where you're like, "Oh, that's, that's creepy." But there's also this feeling of like, "I'm safe here." And I think that, you know, I think that carrying multiple truths at the same time and multiple thoughts is just beneficial. But yeah, I think that the idea of allowing places to recover is super important, while also recognizing that we have a role in that. And that's something that Marnie talks about in--and actually one of the tree sitters as well--talks about in the film is this idea that the relationship we need to have with nature is not removing ourselves from nature. And I always think of...I spoke with somebody who does work in Africa with the Maasai, and she was saying that the Maasai were removed from their ancestral lands in order to create a conservation park. But what happened with the ecosystem when they were removed is the ecosystem started to fall apart, because the Maasai were an integral--and had been for 1000s of years--an integral part of that ecosystem. And so it belies that notion that we are somehow outside of ecosystems. No, we are super reliant on them. And I think that kind of that kind of thinking is also super important to remember that like, you know, Indigenous peoples have used, for instance, wildfires, as a way to steward the land, because they're not the wildfires that we see today. They were wildfires that were able to replenish the soil and the land, get rid of invasives, and things like that. So the idea that humans are a part of these ecosystems, and that we have to learn those ways of being and rid ourselves of the notion that we can somehow be outside of, and other than, the ecosystems. **Inmn ** 25:29 I mean, it's like, it's.... I feel like, it's the same thing with most struggles out in the world is we have the tendency to want to remove ourselves from those things. And it is usually detrimental to those causes for us to think of ourselves as outside of everything--which, you know, obviously, there's struggles that we should send our specific voices around and that we should...like certain people should like not make about themselves--but like, for the most part, we are entrenched in all of in all of the thing. And we have to be an active part of them to fix them. **Eleanor ** 26:13 Totally. And I think that, you know, the idea of like, we should always be a part of these struggles, and not make them about ourselves, right, like the struggle to defend redwoods is not about us. It's just that in our own space, we can have these conversations about what it means for us humans to be in the struggle, just like I think, you know, right now, I've been in conversation with several fellow Jews about what's going on right now and what what we're dealing with as Jews. That is not something that I want to put out into the world like up on, you know, I don't want to spend a lot of time on it because it takes the focus away from Palestine. But within our Jewish community, I think it's an important conversation to have. So it's like...It's that...It's that way of being in the struggle. And then if you--just like I think white people need to have conversations with each other about what it means to...like what does Black Lives Matter really mean? And what does dismantling racism really mean? Don't do that at a Black Lives Matter protest, okay. That is not the time, but in our own space and time. So I think, again, you can hold both of those, and I think it's important to.  **Inmn ** 27:29 Yeah, golly, to go tangent for a second on that, like, I don't know, I read this article yesterday, I think, about this.... It was an interview with this Palestinian man who was talking about being asked about antisemitism and like his response to it was like, Israel is.... Israel as a State. Israel displaced Jews living as Arabs in Palestine. Like, Israel is bad for Jewishness and Jewish people.  **Eleanor ** 28:15 Yes, thank you.  **Inmn ** 28:16 And this is like all part of this, like colonizing myth, and any colonizing myth, is to create these others to create a "side," or whatever. I don't know. **Eleanor ** 28:29 Yeah, that's so true. Israel is the greatest threat to Jews in the world right now, I think. **Inmn ** 28:37 Um, too.... Not that I don't want to talk about this stuff more but to veer back towards the movie, I am curious about the collaboration between different...like attacking the problem from different angles. And in the movie, there's kind of this triple-pronged approach that is presented as there's people on the ground doing stuff in the trees, there's people doing legal work, there's indigenous people doing stewardship, and then there's people coming in to make movies about it. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how, like, all of these things interact and like help each other. **Eleanor ** 29:32 Sure. So, it was actually Tom Wheeler, who works at Epic in California, who said that we exist in an ecosystem with each other, which I liked. And he was talking about how--and he works on the legal side--and he was talking about why the tree sitters are important. And I really appreciated that because I think a lot of times we get, you know, the classic saying that like, "When anarchists meet, we meet in a circle. And that's also how I do firing ranges." And unfortunately, like it's true--not just with anarchists, it's just that my anarchist friend happened to say that. I think it's everybody on the left, regardless of what...if you have a title for your preferred angle. But I think it so often is the case that it's like, "No, my tactic is the most important. If you don't want to do my tactic then you're wrong and you're an asshole and you're standing in the way," and it's like, but not everybody can do the thing that you're doing. Like, I can't climb--I mean, I can climb a tree, but I won't, there's like, you know, the floor is lava or some shit--and not a lot of people have the ability to get up into the woods, to take that space and time. And a lot of people don't have the expertise to do legal battles. You know, we need a lot of good lawyers out there. I think the Lakota Law Project taught us that. Look what's happening in Atlanta. Like. you need good lawyers. So I think instead of getting on people's cases, about tactics, I think it's really important that we recognize that whatever your passion is, whatever your expertise or your drive is, there is a place and a need for that in our movements and in whatever struggle. And so I really appreciated that about the folks that I spoke with, is that they all were complementary and understanding of the other people in the struggle and understood that the goal was the same, was to protect these spaces and protect them out of this feeling of love for these spaces. And I think that's the other thing that's really important is that nobody was doing this for the, you know, the Instagram likes or because they thought it...because it paid the most money or because anything like...they were literally like, "Because I love these spaces," either because I have a strong ancestral connection to them or because I've just fallen in love with them from being around them. And so I think that that's the other thing and that this diversity of tactics is necessary when confronting something so vast and so disgusting as colonialism and Capitalism. We have to do whatever we can. And these folks are doing whatever they can. And Pat, one of the tree sitters, actually talks about this too in the film, like, sit wherever you can, do whatever you can in the ecosystem that you know, in the ecosystem that you love. Like, it doesn't have to be in a redwood. Cool if it is, but we don't have to choose the most superlative ecosystem or the most superlative place to do this. All ecosystems are worthy and Inmneed of our collaboration and protection. And again, in whatever ways we can. **Inmn ** 32:57 Yeah, yeah. It's really disheartening to watch spaces kind of rip themselves apart in being upset that everyone is not doing the tactic that they want. And that is something that I've always really appreciated about, especially, forest defense campaigns or like other kinds of extraction industry defenses--I can't think of words right now--is just the recognition that we need a lot of different kinds of people to do this work. And, you know, I feel like maybe part of that is people maybe having gone and done things and then gotten in a lot of legal trouble and being like, "Oh, fuck, we need lawyers," and then like, realizing like, "Oh, lawyers are really cool!" But, yeah, that's something I just really appreciate about those campaigns. Um, yeah, I don't know, maybe this is a funny question. Say I'm some random person--or not random--just I'm a person listening to this podcast who's been like curious about forest defense and doesn't really know where to start or how to get into that. Like, I want to.... I've never done forest defense and I want to go get involved in a forest defense campaign, either one that's near me or one that's, maybe, far away. Do you have any advice for someone like that? **Eleanor ** 34:48 Sure. I mean, I think just start digging into folks who have the knowledge that you're interested in. So like Inmnorthern California, there's the tree sitters union, I think they're on Instagram @thetreesittersunion. There's also, like down around where I am, close to Appalachia, there's Appalachians Against Pipelines. Greenpeace does a lot of like trainings, like climbing trainings and things like that. And those are also spaces where you might be able to meet folks that are like minded. But honestly, like in terms of getting started on a campaign, like.... You know, in the film, again, they just say, just, you know, I" walked up...we walked up and we saw that there was a chainsaw at the bottom of this tree And were like, 'Oh, I guess we'll sit in this tree.'" I think people feel like there has to be this, you know, there has to be the war room where you got all the plans and you got the poster board and you got paper clips and all that. But you don't! Like yes, plan is good so you have water and shit, but it doesn't have to be this really elaborate. campaign to start with. And earlier this year, I was in Germany because I was doing a tour of my film about West Virginia coal in the coal regions of Germany. And I went to this tree village that is absolutely gorgeous. And folks were still living there, even though the campaign had kind of moved on, and I was asking them, like, "Okay, so what's the story here?" And it was the same thing. It was like, "Well, we just didn't want them to cut down this forest." I mean, it really is that simple. Like, I think, again, there is this...there's kind of this mystique to the idea of frontline defense. And, yes, it can build to something where you've got several tree villages or you have, you know, a resistance camp blocking a pipeline that's also like a food forest. Like, sure it can become that. But you don't need to start with that. You just need to start with yourself and some comrades, and this, again, this feeling of love for this place that is threatened. And again, like looking for organizations or like minded folks--and the ones that I mentioned are good places to start--but there are definitely others that I don't know of personally. **Inmn ** 37:14 Yeah. I'm having...I guess having witnessed campaigns in a lot of different places, I'm curious about this. Are there any kind of differences that you noticed between forest defense campaigns here in the United States, or like Turtle Island, versus in Europe, or any kind of like other places that you've been? Either in terms of repression, tactics, or just like how people organize? **Eleanor ** 37:52 So, I'd say in terms of the repression tactics, I mean, people in Europe--I can only speak to, currently, Germany and Sweden--but people were very shocked and disgusted at what happened to Tortuguita and what happened down in Atlanta in terms of facing terrorism charges and Rico charges. But there is also, I mean, in Germany, earlier this year, the cops brutally beat people who were trying to save a small town, Lützerath, from being destroyed for an open coal pit mine. So in terms of the direct pushback, the violence, they're not getting shot, but they are getting the shit beat out of them. And so there's absolutely that understanding that, you know, fascism is on the rise across the globe. And neither Europe nor the United States have to look very far in their history, or their present really,to find ways of emulating the fascist state that they are moving towards. And so, in terms of repression, I think it's mostly like the legal battles that are the main difference between the US and Europe. And I think in terms of organizing, I do see a lot of similarities, basically, because it's the same story. It's people who were like, "Actually, you know what, no, you can't fucking do that. I'm not gonna let you ruin this." And I do find a little bit of the same problems in terms of organizing. Like, for instance, Inmnorthern Sweden--which a lot of people don't know that Sweden, Finland, and Norway have indigenous peoples that were then colonized--so the Sami are the indigenous people of the far-north and their ancestral lands blanket across what is now Norway, Finland, Sweden, and parts of Russia. And that's also where a lot of forests are. And it's up in the Arctic Circle. And there's a lot of still culturally important practices, like reindeer herding, that happen there that are being disrupted by deforestation and mining. You know, like Sweden announced recently that, "Oh, we found lithium in the north." Oh, great!  **Inmn ** 40:24 Oh no. Leave it there! **Eleanor ** 40:26 Yeah, exactly. Don't tell Elon Musk. So, yeah, there's a push to protect these spaces but also this difficulty of like, okay, how do we, as non-indigenous people in Sweden make these inroads. And the Sami are historically very reticent of working with Swedes--I don't blame them--or Norwegians or what have you, because of what's happened in the past. And I noticed that here, too, right. It's difficult sometimes for people who are not indigenous to make those connections in indigenous communities. And so I see a lot of that struggle as well. But at the same time, again, when you are coming at it from this place of, "Well, I too want to protect this out of love. And not because I'm looking for some kind of accolade or whatever," that I think that you can make those connections and you can make that struggle collaborative, as long as you're coming at it from that space. And, so I do see that happening in places outside of the US and I think it's rad. **Inmn ** 41:43 Hell yeah. That's really great. Golly, this is a really weird question, but, you know, my brain's always on a tangent. Are there any forest defense influencers? Is this a thing in the internet and the internet world? I'm imagining the person who's just there for, you know, Instagram likes, or something, and I'm like, is that real? **Eleanor ** 42:10 So like, not like the straight up forest defenders, but there's definitely like the Sierra Club type that are like.... You know, so, again, it's like this kind of gray area--I'm a big fan of recognizing nuance--it's like this nuanced space where the person cares and doesn't want to see it destroyed but also wants to virtue signal to people that they care. And that gets all gummed up in the whole Capitalist shit show. So yeah, it's a gummy area. **Inmn ** 42:48 Yeah, and this is--golly, whatever, I love funny questions--so I'm curious about this from, you know, I've had my own experiences with different with different organizations, but is there any kind of  tension or like problems that you do see between on the ground direct action campaigns versus these larger NGO or like nonprofit structures like the Sierra Club or Greenpeace? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not asking for a shit post about these groups or anything, just some of the nuances or complications that can come up?  **Eleanor ** 43:38 Yeah, I mean, again, Capitalism fucks everything up. There were a couple of organizations that I reached out to when I was in California, and they were first happy to talk to me, but then when they realized that I was there supporting and speaking to tree sitters, who are, by definition, breaking the law, because it's private timber land, did not want to speak to me anymore. And I think that's very clearly--like whether they personally wanted to or not is not the point--but as an organization, I think they realized, "Oh, well, our donors are, I don't know, some rich asshole over here. And if we do that, if we engage with people who are very overtly breaking the law, then that's not good for our bottom line. And we need our bottom line in order to keep protecting the forest.: So in their mind, they were doing that so that they could continue to protect the forest. But of course, this creates that splintering that is so useful for the system. In reality, they should be working with the tree sitters. Like, you have the ability to work together to protect these spaces but because you have to make sure that you get the foundation money or these rich donors or whatever, you can't. And so I absolutely see that and I think that's also a global problem because a lot of this does cost money, you know? Like, rope is not cheap. Just making sure that people have supplies and food and things. Like shit costs money. And it's not like tree sitters get paid. So it is difficult, but I tend to--I shouldn't say...I don't want to be prejudiced ahead of time, but I've I find that I often am--be prejudiced against a big organization that says, "We are protecting the forest." It's like, are you? Or are you doing like forest walks and shit--which is cool--and like picking up trash. But that is not the same thing as standing between a chainsaw and a tree. And that's not to say that like, "I'm more radical than you." It's just a necessary context, I think, for understanding, again, this ecosystem that we're a part of. Like, we need more people to be the ones standing in between the trains on the tree. And I think we need fewer people being the ones, you know, typing up newsletters about this forest walk where you can plant a sapling or some shit, just in terms of what we need. That's what I would say. **Inmn ** 46:25 Yeah. Yeah, It's weird how similar the idea of an NGO or something being getting donors to lead a forest walk.... It's the trap of building an organization that gets too big and has too many dependencies on Capital to sustain itself. It's, yeah, it's.... I don't know. I think about this a lot with different projects that I've been a part of. Like I'm part of this community theater group and I'm like, we can't get too big or it's gonna cause huge problems. We can't be too successful or else it all falls apart. Yeah, I think that would be my biggest thing with some larger NGOs is it's cool if y'all's thing is like bringing in money, that's cool. But it seems like the real problem is an organization like that's inability to accept a diversity of tactics or donors to really look past--and maybe this is a shitpost--but the idea wealthy donors who want the experience of like donating to an environmental nonprofit and want that experience of like bringing their kids on the forest walk, this is the same thing as getting a like, quote, "heirloom redwood forest timber deck that is sustainably 'harvested'" Like it's the same thing. **Eleanor ** 48:15 Yeah, it is very twisted. And of course I think that's the problem is that there's no such thing as money without strings. And so when you have these big donors--and I know this from just other spaces that I've organized, even outside of the environment--okay, well, so-and-so is gonna give this much money, but then they also want us to build the website this way or they want us to make sure that the action looks like this. And it's like, but also these people don't know anything about organizing. So then their ideas are shit and you're like, "Look, the whole entire campaign is falling apart because you want this sign to say something completely stupid," and it happens all the time. And that's why, unfortunately, we as organizers have to have this balance of like, "Okay, we need this much money, but if we just get it from one or two donors, what do they want in return for all of this cash?" And there's always going to be something. They're not just going to be like, "Hey, really happy that we can support you in whatever you're doing," like, that's never the case. So yeah, it sucks. But yeah, until we can just, you know, pay rent in good deeds or something, that's gonna be the problem. **Inmn ** 49:35 Or like shift our cultural mindset beyond like...you know, if I'm a wealthy donor or something, then the important thing is that the people have the money and resources to do the work, not that I get anything in return from it.  I don't know, I feel like--and maybe this is my bias, having not traveled much outside of the States--is that we have this very individualistic mentality around everything, and that that extends to forest and extraction resource defense and like.... I don't know. **Eleanor ** 50:15 It is a.... And one of the people in the film Marni, a member of the Wiyot tribe, talks about this individualistic paradigm that has perpetuated, that we as children of Empire have, because it's been passed down to us. And even those of us who have been radicalized, I like to say that there's no way that you can ever be like 100% AntiCapitalist. Like it's a daily struggle, just like you have to be antiracist everyday and antifacist. Like, there is no like, "Got it! No, I'm done." So she talks about this like this--and you know, to go back to Lord of the Rings-- **Inmn ** 50:18 The real goal podcast, right? It's not. But... **Eleanor ** 50:27 It all has to do with Lord of the Rings. She likens it to Gollum. And if anybody listening has not read Lord of the Rings, first of all, please do so. But secondly, Gollum is not a character that you want to emulate. Like, that is not how you're supposed to read that. Like, oh, Gollum is cool? Like, he is literally driven to mental anguish and dismay and physical like breakdown because he's so obsessed with this one ring. And that is not a good thing, right? It's not something where you're like, "Yeah, Gollum!" and he loses like all his community. Like, he's just by himself. And yet, we have built an entire system on the paradigm of Gollum. Like be by yourself. Fuck community. Care only about the thing that you can own and that can thereby, of course, own you in return. It's so fucked up. And yet, that is like the foundation of Capitalism. And so of course, when we step into a forest...and is one of the lines that I have in my first film about West Virginia is "How can you look at a mountain and think 'mine.'" Which is, of course, a double entendre. Which, I'm a sucker for those. But it's like, that's what we do. We've been programmed into stepping into these beautiful spaces and thinking, "Oh, I wonder how much this would be worth if I destroyed it?" Like, what kind of fucked way is that to look.... And it happens, you know, I have a toddler and people will kind of laugh when I'm like, "We go outside and we hug trees together," and they'll laugh. And I'm like, "So that's kind of weird that you think it's funny in like a derogatory way, because wouldn't it be more fucked up if I had like a toddler axe, or some shit, and I was teaching him how to destroy these things? Like, why do we have this paradigm where it's weird to teach your kids to love nature but totally cool to give a five year old a hunting rifle or something. Like what in the hell? And I'm not saying that you shouldn't hunt. But we hunt for fun. Like we don't hunt because we need food. We hunt because it's fun. **Inmn ** 53:17 Or for the trophy. **Eleanor ** 53:20 Right, for the trophy, which you can say is the same with the redwood deck. It's a trophy. It's something to show off to people. You don't need it. Like you could, you could stack stones and have a deck. Like, you don't need the fucking redwoods. And she also made...Marni makes this point in the film too, like, of course, people have used wood for generations, to use  for firewood, to widdle sculptures, to build things. And she's like, "I totally get that, but you can't do it at this scale. You have to have this relationship with nature so that you only take what you need and make sure that there's enough for the next time," and you see this throughout indigenous cultures. You know, Robin Wall Kimmerer talks about it in "Braiding Sweetgrass," the idea that--and I don't remember if it was her tribe or another one that she's talking about--would go out and get fish, but then they wouldn't get all of the fish. They'd just get the ones that they needed, right? And they would know that there's all these fish 'getting away'--in the white perspective--but they're not 'getting away,' they are surviving so that you can go fishing next time. And so again, it's like this...it's a very short sighted paradigm that is totally individualistic and totally destructive, that doesn't.... And again, like Gollum is totally destroyed but he doesn't see it himself. It's only people on the outside that are like, "Oh, God, that guy's not doing well." And yet again, we don't, we don't see it from the inside. And so I think that's why it's so important to step outside of that programming and just see the logic or the illogic of these situations and allow ourselves to fall in love with nature and question why that sounds corny when we say it out loud. Like, why is it corny to fall in love with a tree or a river or what have you. I mean, like, that is actually really beautiful. And it is necessary if we are to get to the space where we can say, "Defend what you love." Because if you don't love something, you're less likely to defend it, right? Like, you know, of course, that's why parents always defend their children because you have this natural need, like you love your child so much, or your partner, or your friend, or what have you. You're less likely to defend a total stranger. It's just like a human thing, or an animal thing. And so if we don't love these places, these spaces, then we're less likely to be moved to defend them. **Inmn ** 56:01 Yeah. Golly, so don't be like Gollum. Don't hoard ultimate power and destruction. Be like a hobbit and enjoy the 3000 year old party tree because it's a beautiful tree.  **Eleanor ** 56:19 Amen.  **Inmn ** 56:23 Well, this seems like a great place to kind of tie it off, and because we're also almost at time, but do you have any final thoughts or questions that I didn't ask you that you wish I'd asked you? And then after that, anything that you want to plug? **Eleanor ** 56:43 Just, I mean, it was something that I included at the end of the film, my good friend Carla Bergman co-wrote a book "Joyful Militancy," which I also recommend to everyone. **Inmn ** 56:53 Oh, yeah. We had Carla on not too long ago. **Eleanor ** 56:57 I love Carla so much. So one of the things that they talk about in that book, Carla and Nick, is this idea of rigid radicalism and the need to be fluid but not flimsy. And I think that that's something that...that's another practice that I'm trying to get more into, because I think a lot of times when we have a stance or when we have a perspective, we can get stuck in it. And then, we can let it weigh us down. And I think it's really important, no matter what fight we're fighting, to be able to be fluid because it will allow us to confront the next struggle, the next shitstorm, the next fire, or whatever. But if we are too rigid, we will get caught up in the flood or the flames and be carried away. And so I think it's important to stay fluid but not flimsy. And yeah. **Inmn ** 57:59 Sick.  Are there any places that you can be found on the internet where you would like to be found or where your work can be found? I know you plugged stuff at the beginning but we'll throw stuff in the show notes. **Eleanor ** 58:14 All of my work is at artkillingapathy.com That's where my films are, my music, my poetry, and journalism. This specific film To the Trees is at tothetreesfilm.com and I am on Instagram and Twitter @RadicalEleanor. **Inmn ** 58:32 Wonderful. And are you working on anything? Got anything coming up soon that you're working on? **Eleanor ** 58:38 I think I'm going to work on some of the footage that I got in Germany as kind of like an addendum, or a compliment, to my first film about coal regions in West Virginia. I have footage from coal regions in Germany that I think I'm gonna put into something. **Inmn ** 58:58 Great. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show today. **Eleanor ** 59:01 Thanks so much for having me. **Inmn ** 59:08 If you enjoyed this episode, Defend the Party Tree. You can also tell people about the show. You can support the show financially by supporting our publisher, Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. And you can find us on Patreon at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. You can also go to tangledwilderness.org and check out some cool books that we have for sale, because we are a publisher. We put out books, we put out zines, we put out podcasts, obviously. And we're working on all kinds of really fun stuff. So, go check it out and get a cool book. We also do this zine of the month club where for like 10 bucks a month, you can get a zine version of our monthly feature mailed to you anywhere in the world. You can also listen to the feature for free on our other podcast Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, where we do interviews with the author And that's really it. We would like to have a special shout out to a few of our Patreon supporters. Thank you, Patoli, Eric, Perceval, Buck, Julia, Catgut, Marm, Carson, Lord Harken, Trixster, Princess Miranda, BenBen, Anonymous, Funder, Janice & Odell, Aly, paparouna, Milica, Boise Mutual Aid, Theo, Hunter, SJ, Paige, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Staro, Jenipher, Kirk, Chris, Macaiah, and Hoss the Dog. Thank you so much. And we will see everyone next time. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co