Podcasts about Bitter

  • 7,353PODCASTS
  • 11,520EPISODES
  • 45mAVG DURATION
  • 2DAILY NEW EPISODES
  • Mar 9, 2026LATEST

POPULARITY

20192020202120222023202420252026

Categories



Best podcasts about Bitter

Show all podcasts related to bitter

Latest podcast episodes about Bitter

The John Batchelor Show
S8 Ep552: 5. Guest Author: George Black Headline: The Bitter Legacy of the MIA Issue Summary: The discussion covers post-war trauma and how the MIA issue and conspiracy theories blocked diplomatic normalization between the United States and Vietnam for de

The John Batchelor Show

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 9, 2026 10:05


5. Guest Author: George Black Headline: The Bitter Legacy of the MIA Issue Summary: The discussion covers post-war trauma and how the MIA issue and conspiracy theories blocked diplomatic normalization between the United States and Vietnam for decades. (5)1968 THIRD MARINES

the Henny Flynn podcast
Holding the Bitter and the Sweet (S19E8)

the Henny Flynn podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 7, 2026 23:28 Transcription Available


I'm back in my kitchen - this really feels like the place to speak to you - and I've been thinking this week about the juxtaposition between joy and pain, between the bitter and the sweet.It's something that came up in a conversation I had recently, and something that's been arising in the Gratitude Quest. So I thought we could reflect on that together today.In this episode, I explore:• How we learn to make space for both joy and pain within us - not as a meme of 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger,' but as a genuine capacity• Why cacao is a beautiful representation of the balance of bitter and sweet • A blessing I received from a wonderful teacher: 'I see you in your pain and your magnificence'• My own journey of believing I could only hold joy or pain, never both — and how I chose joy as my raison d'être, which became unsustainable• The devastating period of grief when I told Anton 'I feel as though I'm never going to smile again'• Getting really ill ten years ago and beginning to understand what would truly serve me• The awakening - deep, deep, deep down in the bowels of my belly - that I have the capacity to hold joy and pain simultaneously• An invitation to feel into where you are on this journey, and to know this capacity exists simply because of our humanityI close with a poem from My darling girl that I don't often share, but that appeared when I opened the book today. It speaks to the expansiveness of a heart that has space for every part of us.I also share details about two offerings: The Weekend of No Requirements 16-19 October (a luxurious retreat in Herefordshire with no requirements upon you to be anything other than how you feel) and Awakening Hopes and Dreams, a small group course beginning 26 March, 12.00-1.15pm (UK).Settle in, and see where the episode takes you. ★ Support this podcast ★

SHE gets It
Choosing To Be A Bitter Betty

SHE gets It

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 6, 2026 20:19


Be self aware, there is a choice you are making in what you don't like.If there is nothing else there and you have more to give... you are at your stopping point.People who are miserable together are choosing each other. Trust that.Follow us on Chan & Pods channelSubscribe to the show on YT and on your podcast apphttps://www.bonfire.com/store/the-chanbepoddin-spot/https://www.tabletopics.com/CHANTAL85549TikTok: @chanbepoddinX @chanbepoddin#bitterbetty #bebetterhttps://www.youtube.com/@chanpods Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/she-gets-it-pod/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Bitter och Tysk - en podcast om brädspel
Bitter och Tysk - Avsnitt 290 (Alla får påsar)

Bitter och Tysk - en podcast om brädspel

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 6, 2026 21:17


Tysk är upprörd över att alla får allt de vill ha, vilket känns lite ovanligt för Tysk att vara upprörd över. Detta tarvar en diskussion. Små kortspel har spelats, positiva hörnan lyser med sin frånvaro och siffran är 90. I avsnittet nämns: River of Gold Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game Battle for Rokugan Ark Nova Blood Bowl Agricola Nunatak: Temple of Ice Compile The Crew: The Quest for Planet Nine Star Wars: Episode 1 – Clash of the Lightsabers

Huberman Lab
Essentials: The Biology of Taste Perception & Sugar Craving | Dr. Charles Zuker

Huberman Lab

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 5, 2026 34:55


In this Huberman Lab Essentials episode, my guest is Dr. Charles Zuker, PhD, a professor of biochemistry, molecular biophysics and neuroscience at Columbia University and an Investigator with the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI). We explore taste perception and how the brain transforms chemical signals from food into distinct taste experiences. We discuss how these taste signals shape both conscious choices and unconscious behavior, as well as how food preferences can change over time. Additionally, we discuss gut–brain signaling and explain why sugar is especially powerful at driving cravings. Read the episode show notes at hubermanlab.com. Thank you to our sponsors AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman Timestamps (00:00:00) Charles Zuker (00:00:20) Senses & Perception (00:02:29) Taste, 5 Taste Qualities & Dietary Needs (00:05:49) Taste vs Flavor (00:07:05) Sponsor: AG1 (00:07:56) Taste Buds; Bitter (00:09:45) Sweet vs Bitter, Sensory Perception from Tongue to Brain (00:12:47) Taste Plasticity & Changing Food Preferences (00:14:13) Taste Modulation; Salt (00:17:08) Sponsor: LMNT (00:18:41) Gut-Brain Signaling (00:23:14) Sugar Appetite & Gut-Brain Axis (00:27:42) Sponsor: Function (00:29:21) Artificial Sweeteners, Sugar Cravings (00:30:37) Taste & Essential Nutrients; Highly Processed Foods; Brain & Food Choices (00:34:11) Acknowledgements Disclaimer & Disclosures Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

God se Woord VARS vir jou Vandag
Aartappels en Eiers

God se Woord VARS vir jou Vandag

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 5, 2026 3:14 Transcription Available


Send a textPsalm 62:2,3 Net by God vind ek rus, van Hom kom my redding. Net Hy is my rots en my redding, my veilige vesting, sodat ek vas en stewig staan. Teenspoed is geneig om een van twee verskillende reaksies uit te lok: ons word óf bitter óf beter. En let asseblief daarop, so naby as wat die twee woorde aan mekaar klink – bitter of beter – is hulle onverenigbaar. Bitter, of beter, die een óf die ander. Nooit albei nie. So … wat sal dit wees?John Bunyan en George Fox was albei tydens die 17de-eeu in Engeland gevange geneem omdat hulle sonder die toestemming van die Kerk van Engeland gepreek het. Bunyan, het die tronk as 'n plek gebruik om nader aan God te kom. Hy het ‘n boek, The Pilgrim's Progress, wat een van die klassieke Christelike werke geword het, geskryf. Sy lyding het hom nader aan Jesus laat groei.Fox, die stigter van die Kwaker-beweging, het ook deur ‘n soortgelyke moeilike tyd gegaan, maar hy het bitter en aggressief geword en homself selfs van sy vriende afgesluit. Die twee manne is albei baie onregverdig behandel, maar die een het sy pyn aan God oorgegee en dit het blywende vrugte gebring. Die ander, hoewel opreg,  vol wraakgedagtes. Sy lyding het hom verhard.Dieselfde tipe vervolging het twee baie uiteenlopende reaksies veroorsaak – die een beter, die ander bitter. Dit het onthul wat in hulle harte was.Dit blyk dat dieselfde pot kookwater 'n aartappel sag maak en 'n eier hard. Dit gaan nie soseer oor jou omstandighede nie, maar dit wys watter kaliber mens jy is.So, wat van jou? Wie of wat regeer jou lewe? Vir koning Dawid, was die antwoord, ten spyte van sy omstandighede waar hy moes vlug vir sy lewe, baie duidelik:Psalm 62:2,3 Net by God vind ek rus, van Hom kom my redding. Net Hy is my rots en my redding, my veilige vesting, sodat ek vas en stewig staan.Wanneer God jou lewe regeer, maak sy Gees jou siel stil en stel jou in staat om met stille vertroue te wag, wetende dat Hy jou rots, jou heil en jou veilige vesting is. Wanneer God jou lewe regeer, sal jy nie wankel nie!Dis Sy Woord. Vars ... vir jou ... vandag.Support the showEnjoying The Content?For the price of a cup of coffee each month, you can enable Christianityworks to reach 10,000+ people with a message about the love of Jesus!DONATE R50 MONTHLY

Fresh Intelligence
EXCLUSIVE: Keith Urban 'Desperate' to Win Back His Kids From Ex Nicole Kidman - Radar Reveals Singer's Make-or-Break Plan for Reunion With Bitter Daughters

Fresh Intelligence

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2026 2:21 Transcription Available


EXCLUSIVE: Keith Urban 'Desperate' to Win Back His Kids From Ex Nicole Kidman - Radar Reveals Singer's Make-or-Break Plan for Reunion With Bitter DaughtersAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

WCF Sunday Services
The Lord & His Prayer // Bitter or Better - Forgiveness Part 1 | Rev. Dr. David Chotka

WCF Sunday Services

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2026 64:29


In this week's message from The Lord and His Prayer, Rev. Dr. David Chotka begins a powerful two-part exploration of forgiveness titled “Bitter or Better – Forgiveness Part 1.” When Jesus teaches us to pray, “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors,” He ties our experience of God's mercy to the mercy we extend to others. But what happens when wounds run deep? How do we move from bitterness to freedom? In this episode, Dr. Chotka addresses the heart of unforgiveness—how resentment takes root, how it shapes our spiritual lives, and how Christ invites us into something better. This message calls us to examine our hearts and consider whether we are holding onto pain—or stepping into grace.

NHL Wraparound Podcast
NHL Wraparound Smith's Pix - Mar. 3, 2026

NHL Wraparound Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 3, 2026 3:02


Bitter beer taste from Sunday's six-pack was replaced by great taste with a 5-1-0 mark from Neil going with all road teams Monday. Now 388-210-80, an 11-game slate awaits him on Tuesday.X: https://twitter.com/NHLWraparoundNeil Smith: https://twitter.com/NYCNeilVic Morren: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vic-morren-7038737/NHL Wraparound Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nhlwraparound/#NHLWraparound #NHLWraparound.com #ShortShifts #NYCentric #CelebritySeries #HallofFameEdition #StanleyCupdate #SummerCoolers #Smith'sPix #NeilSmith #VicMorren #PatrickHoffman #NHL #SummerCoolers #AnaheimDucks # #BostonBruins #BuffaloSabres #CalgaryFlames #CarolinaHurricanes #ChicagoBlackhawks #ColoradoAvalanche #ColumbusBlueJackets #DallasStars #DetroitRedWings #EdmontonOilers #FloridaPanthers #LosAngelesKings #MinnesotaWild #MontrealCanadiens #NashvillePredators #NewJerseyDevils #NewYorkIslanders #NewYorkRangers #OttawaSenators #PhiladelphiaFlyers #PittsburghPenguins #StLouisBlues #SanJoseSharks #SeattleKraken #TampaBayLightning #TorontoMapleLeafs #UtahMammoth #VancouverCanucks #VegasGoldenKnights #WashingtonCapitals #WinnipegJets

RSG Geldsake met Moneyweb
RCL-wins val oor bitter suiker-afdeling

RSG Geldsake met Moneyweb

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 2, 2026 6:01


Rob Field, finansiële hoof van RCL Foods, gesels oor die groep se finansiële resultate. Volg RSG Geldsake op Twitter

Church of Hope
You're Not Burned Out — You're Disconnected.

Church of Hope

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 1, 2026 46:18


Pressure to perform.Pressure to provide.Pressure to parent perfectly.Pressure to feel fulfilled.You love God — but you feel like you're barely holding it together.In this message from John 15, we uncover a life-changing truth:You're not burned out.You're disconnected.Jesus calls Himself the Vine.We are the branches.Fruit is not produced by effort — it's produced by connection.If you've been: • Striving instead of resting • Bitter instead of better • Frustrated by delays and closed doors • Wondering why life isn't workingThis teaching will show you how to:✔ Stop striving and start abiding✔ Trust God in pruning seasons✔ Let go of bitterness✔ Experience real spiritual renewalFrom Abraham's impatience to Jesus' promise of “much fruit,” this is a call to move from striving to trusting.Stay connected.Remain faithful.Trust the process.#Abide #SpiritualExhaustion #ChristianEncouragement #John15Sermon #TrustGod

Ravenhill Presbyterian Church
22nd February PM (Grace and Redemption: Studies in Ruth 2 - Ruth 1:6-22 Grace for a Bitter Heart)

Ravenhill Presbyterian Church

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 1, 2026 28:08


Christ Full Gospel Fellowship
Get Better Not Bitter

Christ Full Gospel Fellowship

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 1, 2026 43:35


Get Better Not BitterSupport the show

Fresh Intelligence
'RHOBH' Alum Denise Richards Ordered to Pay Ex Aaron Phypers Eye-Popping Monthly Spousal Support Amid Bitter Divorce Battle

Fresh Intelligence

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 28, 2026 2:35 Transcription Available


'RHOBH' Alum Denise Richards Ordered to Pay Ex Aaron Phypers Eye-Popping Monthly Spousal Support Amid Bitter Divorce BattleAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

The Dirty Glass Podcast
The Dirty Glass Podcast RETURNS! with our waste management series !

The Dirty Glass Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 28, 2026 62:47


This week on The Dirty Glass Podcast, Nick and Denny the Mixologist officially enter their “health era”… or at least that's what we're calling it.No cream. No sugary pre-mix. No mystery ingredients.Just vodka, soda water, and concentrated fruit juice.Joining the show is special guest Zippy, who wastes no time questioning whether “concentrated” and “healthy” belong in the same sentence.On the tasting table:• Vodka + concentrated cherry juice + soda water• Vodka + concentrated cranberry juice + soda water• Vodka + concentrated grapefruit juice + soda waterThree simple builds. Three very different flavor profiles.The cherry brings bold sweetness and depth.The cranberry delivers that sharp, tart kick.And the grapefruit? Bitter, crisp, and dangerously crushable.We break down which juice holds up best with vodka, which one gets elevated by the bubbles, and which one might be the sleeper hit of the night.Is this the cleanest episode we've ever done?Or just a clever way to justify day drinking with fruit?Zippy brings the heat.Denny brings the balance.Nick brings the questions.And by the end, one concentrated contender stands tall.#DirtyGlassPodcast#VodkaDrinks#CherryVodka#CranberryVodka#GrapefruitVodka#ConcentratedJuice#SodaWater#CocktailReview#DrinkBattle#MixologyLife#Healthyish#YouTubePodcast#Zippy#NickAndDenny

JT PROJECT
# 189 Bitter Kisses

JT PROJECT

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 27, 2026 49:56


HELLO HOLICS HOW THE HELL ARE YA!!!!! SO WE WERE OVER THE POND FOR THIS INTERVIEW TO THE U.K .  I LIKE TO THANK BITTER KISSES TO TAKE THE TIME TO SIT DOWN FOR THIS AWESOME INTERVIEW. WE TALK ABOUT THERE NEW SINGLE FRIEND OR FAUX AND TRAPDOOR. AND WE DIP IN SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE DAWG BOWL SO LISTEN IN.spreaker.com/user/jtproject https://www.facebook.com/bitterkissesuk https://www.youtube.com/@Jtproject72 https://www.patreon.com/c/TFPAfterDark www.facebook.com/groups/allthingscoffee/ https://www.blackoutcoffee.com use  the code allthingscoffee15 at checkout.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jt-project--2275817/support.

Retrovaniacs
Ep 233 : Yakuza Kiwami

Retrovaniacs

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 26, 2026 81:50


We're taking on the remake of the first game in the Yakuza series this time, with Yakuza Kiwami - a Patron requested episode! As we cover Kiryu's quest to reunite with his friends, we discuss the differences between the original and this remake, and we say "yakuza" many different and incorrect ways. Want to get right to Kamuchuro?  Take a taxi to the 14:30 mark! Join us over on our Discord to discuss the podcast, video games, or really anything over at https://discord.gg/pb76x32uWY __________________________ If you would like additional bonus episodes of Retrovaniacs or to request a game we must cover, our Patreon is located here : https://www.patreon.com/user?u=21041333 If you enjoy this podcast, why not write a review wherever you download it from? It's easy, and helps people find us by accident. Find everything Retrovaniacs at http://www.retrovania.net Intro song is "8-Bitter" by Subtastics, and is used with permission, mainly because Jeremy P is in that band.

With Intrepid Heart Sermons and Bible Studies
Sermon for Lent 1 Midweek 2026 - Exodus: "Bitter Made Sweet"

With Intrepid Heart Sermons and Bible Studies

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 26, 2026 16:48


Preached by Rev. Adam Moline

Farzetta & Tra In the Morning
The Bitter Agony Of Defeat (Hour 3)

Farzetta & Tra In the Morning

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 25, 2026 41:17


(0:00-19:05) Today's Headlines with Connor Thomas(19:18-32:35) Nick Sirianni "Hot Seat"(32:48-41:17) Sour GrapesPlease note: Timecodes may shift by a few minutes due to inserted ads. Because of copyright restrictions, portions—or entire segments—may not be included in the podcast.For the latest updates, visit the show page Kincade & Salciunas on 975thefanatic.com. Follow 97.5 The Fanatic on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Watch our shows on YouTube, and subscribe to stay up-to-date with all the best moments from Philly's home for sports!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Life Pointe Podcast
BETTER OR BITTER | Pastor Rich Whitter | Philippians 1:1-8

Life Pointe Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 23, 2026 38:24


In this Sunday message, Better or Bitter, Pastor Rich Whitter teaches from Philippians 1:1–8, exploring how the Apostle Paul maintained joy, gratitude, and confidence in Christ even while facing imprisonment and hardship. Paul's opening words to the church in Philippi reveal a heart anchored in eternal perspective rather than temporary circumstances.This message challenges believers to examine how they respond to trials. Do difficulties deepen our faith and refine our character, or do they produce resentment and spiritual stagnation? Through Paul's example, we are reminded that God uses every season — even suffering — to shape us for His purposes and to strengthen our partnership in the gospel.Be encouraged to trust God's work in your life and choose growth over bitterness.Scripture: Philippians 1:1–8Speaker: Pastor Rich WhitterLife Pointe Church

Podcast Campamento Krypton
CK#336: Coca-Cola y el universo pop de los refrescos

Podcast Campamento Krypton

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 22, 2026 173:00


Los refrescos llevan acompañándonos desde que se inventó el agua carbonatada. La gaseosa y la tónica fueron de los primeros refrescos que nos llegaron gracias a las investigaciones de Schweppe y otros farmaceúticos. Dr Pepper llegó antes pero Coca-Cola se convirtió en la gran referencia, más que una bebida es todo un símbolo de la forma de vida americana. Pero Pepsi siempre fue su gran rival y recorremos las cola wars. Mientras, en España, disfrutamos o hemos disfrutado de Bitter kas, La Casera, Trina, Plim o Clipper aunque la Mirinda se quedó por el camino. Y por supuesto hablaremos de las conexiones con la cultura pop de los refrescos. Desde los tebeos de Pepsiman a obras maestras del cine como Uno, dos, tres, pasando hasta por refrescos de la ficción. Gracias a Domino's Friki disfruta de esta oferta por escucharnos. Con el código KRY11N, 2 medianas Clazzica’s por 11.99 euros c/u, vía web o app a domicilio. Las Deluxe llevan un suplemento de 1 euros y si se quiere masa Croizzantísima o borde relleno, suplemento de 1.99 euros. Oferta disponible hasta el 31/12/26 Escucha el episodio completo en la app de iVoox, o descubre todo el catálogo de iVoox Originals

Recomendados de la semana en iVoox.com Semana del 5 al 11 de julio del 2021
CK#336: Coca-Cola y el universo pop de los refrescos

Recomendados de la semana en iVoox.com Semana del 5 al 11 de julio del 2021

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 22, 2026 173:00


Los refrescos llevan acompañándonos desde que se inventó el agua carbonatada. La gaseosa y la tónica fueron de los primeros refrescos que nos llegaron gracias a las investigaciones de Schweppe y otros farmaceúticos. Dr Pepper llegó antes pero Coca-Cola se convirtió en la gran referencia, más que una bebida es todo un símbolo de la forma de vida americana. Pero Pepsi siempre fue su gran rival y recorremos las cola wars. Mientras, en España, disfrutamos o hemos disfrutado de Bitter kas, La Casera, Trina, Plim o Clipper aunque la Mirinda se quedó por el camino. Y por supuesto hablaremos de las conexiones con la cultura pop de los refrescos. Desde los tebeos de Pepsiman a obras maestras del cine como Uno, dos, tres, pasando hasta por refrescos de la ficción. Gracias a Domino's Friki disfruta de esta oferta por escucharnos. Con el código KRY11N, 2 medianas Clazzica’s por 11.99 euros c/u, vía web o app a domicilio. Las Deluxe llevan un suplemento de 1 euros y si se quiere masa Croizzantísima o borde relleno, suplemento de 1.99 euros. Oferta disponible hasta el 31/12/26

Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast — CodeGen, Agents, Computer Vision, Data Science, AI UX and all things Software 3.0
Bitter Lessons in Venture vs Growth: Anthropic vs OpenAI, Noam Shazeer, World Labs, Thinking Machines, Cursor, ASIC Economics — Martin Casado & Sarah Wang of a16z

Latent Space: The AI Engineer Podcast — CodeGen, Agents, Computer Vision, Data Science, AI UX and all things Software 3.0

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2026 55:18


Tickets for AIEi Miami and AIE Europe are live, with first wave speakers announced!From pioneering software-defined networking to backing many of the most aggressive AI model companies of this cycle, Martin Casado and Sarah Wang sit at the center of the capital, compute, and talent arms race reshaping the tech industry. As partners at a16z investing across infrastructure and growth, they've watched venture and growth blur, model labs turn dollars into capability at unprecedented speed, and startups raise nine-figure rounds before monetization.Martin and Sarah join us to unpack the new financing playbook for AI: why today's rounds are really compute contracts in disguise, how the “raise → train → ship → raise bigger” flywheel works, and whether foundation model companies can outspend the entire app ecosystem built on top of them. They also share what's underhyped (boring enterprise software), what's overheated (talent wars and compensation spirals), and the two radically different futures they see for AI's market structure.We discuss:* Martin's “two futures” fork: infinite fragmentation and new software categories vs. a small oligopoly of general models that consume everything above them* The capital flywheel: how model labs translate funding directly into capability gains, then into revenue growth measured in weeks, not years* Why venture and growth have merged: $100M–$1B hybrid rounds, strategic investors, compute negotiations, and complex deal structures* The AGI vs. product tension: allocating scarce GPUs between long-term research and near-term revenue flywheels* Whether frontier labs can out-raise and outspend the entire app ecosystem built on top of their APIs* Why today's talent wars ($10M+ comp packages, $B acqui-hires) are breaking early-stage founder math* Cursor as a case study: building up from the app layer while training down into your own models* Why “boring” enterprise software may be the most underinvested opportunity in the AI mania* Hardware and robotics: why the ChatGPT moment hasn't yet arrived for robots and what would need to change* World Labs and generative 3D: bringing the marginal cost of 3D scene creation down by orders of magnitude* Why public AI discourse is often wildly disconnected from boardroom reality and how founders should navigate the noiseShow Notes:* “Where Value Will Accrue in AI: Martin Casado & Sarah Wang” - a16z show* “Jack Altman & Martin Casado on the Future of Venture Capital”* World Labs—Martin Casado• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martincasado/• X: https://x.com/martin_casadoSarah Wang• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-wang-59b96a7• X: https://x.com/sarahdingwanga16z• https://a16z.com/Timestamps00:00:00 – Intro: Live from a16z00:01:20 – The New AI Funding Model: Venture + Growth Collide00:03:19 – Circular Funding, Demand & “No Dark GPUs”00:05:24 – Infrastructure vs Apps: The Lines Blur00:06:24 – The Capital Flywheel: Raise → Train → Ship → Raise Bigger00:09:39 – Can Frontier Labs Outspend the Entire App Ecosystem?00:11:24 – Character AI & The AGI vs Product Dilemma00:14:39 – Talent Wars, $10M Engineers & Founder Anxiety00:17:33 – What's Underinvested? The Case for “Boring” Software00:19:29 – Robotics, Hardware & Why It's Hard to Win00:22:42 – Custom ASICs & The $1B Training Run Economics00:24:23 – American Dynamism, Geography & AI Power Centers00:26:48 – How AI Is Changing the Investor Workflow (Claude Cowork)00:29:12 – Two Futures of AI: Infinite Expansion or Oligopoly?00:32:48 – If You Can Raise More Than Your Ecosystem, You Win00:34:27 – Are All Tasks AGI-Complete? Coding as the Test Case00:38:55 – Cursor & The Power of the App Layer00:44:05 – World Labs, Spatial Intelligence & 3D Foundation Models00:47:20 – Thinking Machines, Founder Drama & Media Narratives00:52:30 – Where Long-Term Power Accrues in the AI StackTranscriptLatent.Space - Inside AI's $10B+ Capital Flywheel — Martin Casado & Sarah Wang of a16z[00:00:00] Welcome to Latent Space (Live from a16z) + Meet the Guests[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast, live from a 16 z. Uh, this is Alessio founder Kernel Lance, and I'm joined by Twix, editor of Latent Space.[00:00:08] swyx: Hey, hey, hey. Uh, and we're so glad to be on with you guys. Also a top AI podcast, uh, Martin Cado and Sarah Wang. Welcome, very[00:00:16] Martin Casado: happy to be here and welcome.[00:00:17] swyx: Yes, uh, we love this office. We love what you've done with the place. Uh, the new logo is everywhere now. It's, it's still getting, takes a while to get used to, but it reminds me of like sort of a callback to a more ambitious age, which I think is kind of[00:00:31] Martin Casado: definitely makes a statement.[00:00:33] swyx: Yeah.[00:00:34] Martin Casado: Not quite sure what that statement is, but it makes a statement.[00:00:37] swyx: Uh, Martin, I go back with you to Netlify.[00:00:40] Martin Casado: Yep.[00:00:40] swyx: Uh, and, uh, you know, you create a software defined networking and all, all that stuff people can read up on your background. Yep. Sarah, I'm newer to you. Uh, you, you sort of started working together on AI infrastructure stuff.[00:00:51] Sarah Wang: That's right. Yeah. Seven, seven years ago now.[00:00:53] Martin Casado: Best growth investor in the entire industry.[00:00:55] swyx: Oh, say[00:00:56] Martin Casado: more hands down there is, there is. [00:01:00] I mean, when it comes to AI companies, Sarah, I think has done the most kind of aggressive, um, investment thesis around AI models, right? So, worked for Nom Ja, Mira Ia, FEI Fey, and so just these frontier, kind of like large AI models.[00:01:15] I think, you know, Sarah's been the, the broadest investor. Is that fair?[00:01:20] Venture vs. Growth in the Frontier Model Era[00:01:20] Sarah Wang: No, I, well, I was gonna say, I think it's been a really interesting tag, tag team actually just ‘cause the, a lot of these big C deals, not only are they raising a lot of money, um, it's still a tech founder bet, which obviously is inherently early stage.[00:01:33] But the resources,[00:01:36] Martin Casado: so many, I[00:01:36] Sarah Wang: was gonna say the resources one, they just grow really quickly. But then two, the resources that they need day one are kind of growth scale. So I, the hybrid tag team that we have is. Quite effective, I think,[00:01:46] Martin Casado: what is growth these days? You know, you don't wake up if it's less than a billion or like, it's, it's actually, it's actually very like, like no, it's a very interesting time in investing because like, you know, take like the character around, right?[00:01:59] These tend to [00:02:00] be like pre monetization, but the dollars are large enough that you need to have a larger fund and the analysis. You know, because you've got lots of users. ‘cause this stuff has such high demand requires, you know, more of a number sophistication. And so most of these deals, whether it's US or other firms on these large model companies, are like this hybrid between venture growth.[00:02:18] Sarah Wang: Yeah. Total. And I think, you know, stuff like BD for example, you wouldn't usually need BD when you were seed stage trying to get market biz Devrel. Biz Devrel, exactly. Okay. But like now, sorry, I'm,[00:02:27] swyx: I'm not familiar. What, what, what does biz Devrel mean for a venture fund? Because I know what biz Devrel means for a company.[00:02:31] Sarah Wang: Yeah.[00:02:32] Compute Deals, Strategics, and the ‘Circular Funding' Question[00:02:32] Sarah Wang: You know, so a, a good example is, I mean, we talk about buying compute, but there's a huge negotiation involved there in terms of, okay, do you get equity for the compute? What, what sort of partner are you looking at? Is there a go-to market arm to that? Um, and these are just things on this scale, hundreds of millions, you know, maybe.[00:02:50] Six months into the inception of a company, you just wouldn't have to negotiate these deals before.[00:02:54] Martin Casado: Yeah. These large rounds are very complex now. Like in the past, if you did a series A [00:03:00] or a series B, like whatever, you're writing a 20 to a $60 million check and you call it a day. Now you normally have financial investors and strategic investors, and then the strategic portion always still goes with like these kind of large compute contracts, which can take months to do.[00:03:13] And so it's, it's very different ties. I've been doing this for 10 years. It's the, I've never seen anything like this.[00:03:19] swyx: Yeah. Do you have worries about the circular funding from so disease strategics?[00:03:24] Martin Casado: I mean, listen, as long as the demand is there, like the demand is there. Like the problem with the internet is the demand wasn't there.[00:03:29] swyx: Exactly. All right. This, this is like the, the whole pyramid scheme bubble thing, where like, as long as you mark to market on like the notional value of like, these deals, fine, but like once it starts to chip away, it really Well[00:03:41] Martin Casado: no, like as, as, as, as long as there's demand. I mean, you know, this, this is like a lot of these sound bites have already become kind of cliches, but they're worth saying it.[00:03:47] Right? Like during the internet days, like we were. Um, raising money to put fiber in the ground that wasn't used. And that's a problem, right? Because now you actually have a supply overhang.[00:03:58] swyx: Mm-hmm.[00:03:59] Martin Casado: And even in the, [00:04:00] the time of the, the internet, like the supply and, and bandwidth overhang, even as massive as it was in, as massive as the crash was only lasted about four years.[00:04:09] But we don't have a supply overhang. Like there's no dark GPUs, right? I mean, and so, you know, circular or not, I mean, you know, if, if someone invests in a company that, um. You know, they'll actually use the GPUs. And on the other side of it is the, is the ask for customer. So I I, I think it's a different time.[00:04:25] Sarah Wang: I think the other piece, maybe just to add onto this, and I'm gonna quote Martine in front of him, but this is probably also a unique time in that. For the first time, you can actually trace dollars to outcomes. Yeah, right. Provided that scaling laws are, are holding, um, and capabilities are actually moving forward.[00:04:40] Because if you can put translate dollars into capabilities, uh, a capability improvement, there's demand there to martine's point. But if that somehow breaks, you know, obviously that's an important assumption in this whole thing to make it work. But you know, instead of investing dollars into sales and marketing, you're, you're investing into r and d to get to the capability, um, you know, increase.[00:04:59] And [00:05:00] that's sort of been the demand driver because. Once there's an unlock there, people are willing to pay for it.[00:05:05] Alessio: Yeah.[00:05:06] Blurring Lines: Models as Infra + Apps, and the New Fundraising Flywheel[00:05:06] Alessio: Is there any difference in how you built the portfolio now that some of your growth companies are, like the infrastructure of the early stage companies, like, you know, OpenAI is now the same size as some of the cloud providers were early on.[00:05:16] Like what does that look like? Like how much information can you feed off each other between the, the two?[00:05:24] Martin Casado: There's so many lines that are being crossed right now, or blurred. Right. So we already talked about venture and growth. Another one that's being blurred is between infrastructure and apps, right? So like what is a model company?[00:05:35] Mm-hmm. Like, it's clearly infrastructure, right? Because it's like, you know, it's doing kind of core r and d. It's a horizontal platform, but it's also an app because it's um, uh, touches the users directly. And then of course. You know, the, the, the growth of these is just so high. And so I actually think you're just starting to see a, a, a new financing strategy emerge and, you know, we've had to adapt as a result of that.[00:05:59] And [00:06:00] so there's been a lot of changes. Um, you're right that these companies become platform companies very quickly. You've got ecosystem build out. So none of this is necessarily new, but the timescales of which it's happened is pretty phenomenal. And the way we'd normally cut lines before is blurred a little bit, but.[00:06:16] But that, that, that said, I mean, a lot of it also just does feel like things that we've seen in the past, like cloud build out the internet build out as well.[00:06:24] Sarah Wang: Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's interesting, uh, I don't know if you guys would agree with this, but it feels like the emerging strategy is, and this builds off of your other question, um.[00:06:33] You raise money for compute, you pour that or you, you pour the money into compute, you get some sort of breakthrough. You funnel the breakthrough into your vertically integrated application. That could be chat GBT, that could be cloud code, you know, whatever it is. You massively gain share and get users.[00:06:49] Maybe you're even subsidizing at that point. Um, depending on your strategy. You raise money at the peak momentum and then you repeat, rinse and repeat. Um, and so. And that wasn't [00:07:00] true even two years ago, I think. Mm-hmm. And so it's sort of to your, just tying it to fundraising strategy, right? There's a, and hiring strategy.[00:07:07] All of these are tied, I think the lines are blurring even more today where everyone is, and they, but of course these companies all have API businesses and so they're these, these frenemy lines that are getting blurred in that a lot of, I mean, they have billions of dollars of API revenue, right? And so there are customers there.[00:07:23] But they're competing on the app layer.[00:07:24] Martin Casado: Yeah. So this is a really, really important point. So I, I would say for sure, venture and growth, that line is blurry app and infrastructure. That line is blurry. Um, but I don't think that that changes our practice so much. But like where the very open questions are like, does this layer in the same way.[00:07:43] Compute traditionally has like during the cloud is like, you know, like whatever, somebody wins one layer, but then another whole set of companies wins another layer. But that might not, might not be the case here. It may be the case that you actually can't verticalize on the token string. Like you can't build an app like it, it necessarily goes down just because there are no [00:08:00] abstractions.[00:08:00] So those are kinda the bigger existential questions we ask. Another thing that is very different this time than in the history of computer sciences is. In the past, if you raised money, then you basically had to wait for engineering to catch up. Which famously doesn't scale like the mythical mammoth. It take a very long time.[00:08:18] But like that's not the case here. Like a model company can raise money and drop a model in a, in a year, and it's better, right? And, and it does it with a team of 20 people or 10 people. So this type of like money entering a company and then producing something that has demand and growth right away and using that to raise more money is a very different capital flywheel than we've ever seen before.[00:08:39] And I think everybody's trying to understand what the consequences are. So I think it's less about like. Big companies and growth and this, and more about these more systemic questions that we actually don't have answers to.[00:08:49] Alessio: Yeah, like at Kernel Labs, one of our ideas is like if you had unlimited money to spend productively to turn tokens into products, like the whole early stage [00:09:00] market is very different because today you're investing X amount of capital to win a deal because of price structure and whatnot, and you're kind of pot committing.[00:09:07] Yeah. To a certain strategy for a certain amount of time. Yeah. But if you could like iteratively spin out companies and products and just throw, I, I wanna spend a million dollar of inference today and get a product out tomorrow.[00:09:18] swyx: Yeah.[00:09:19] Alessio: Like, we should get to the point where like the friction of like token to product is so low that you can do this and then you can change the Right, the early stage venture model to be much more iterative.[00:09:30] And then every round is like either 100 k of inference or like a hundred million from a 16 Z. There's no, there's no like $8 million C round anymore. Right.[00:09:38] When Frontier Labs Outspend the Entire App Ecosystem[00:09:38] Martin Casado: But, but, but, but there's a, there's a, the, an industry structural question that we don't know the answer to, which involves the frontier models, which is, let's take.[00:09:48] Anthropic it. Let's say Anthropic has a state-of-the-art model that has some large percentage of market share. And let's say that, uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, a company's building smaller models [00:10:00] that, you know, use the bigger model in the background, open 4.5, but they add value on top of that. Now, if Anthropic can raise three times more.[00:10:10] Every subsequent round, they probably can raise more money than the entire app ecosystem that's built on top of it. And if that's the case, they can expand beyond everything built on top of it. It's like imagine like a star that's just kind of expanding, so there could be a systemic. There could be a, a systemic situation where the soda models can raise so much money that they can out pay anybody that bills on top of ‘em, which would be something I don't think we've ever seen before just because we were so bottlenecked in engineering, and this is a very open question.[00:10:41] swyx: Yeah. It's, it is almost like bitter lesson applied to the startup industry.[00:10:45] Martin Casado: Yeah, a hundred percent. It literally becomes an issue of like raise capital, turn that directly into growth. Use that to raise three times more. Exactly. And if you can keep doing that, you literally can outspend any company that's built the, not any company.[00:10:57] You can outspend the aggregate of companies on top of [00:11:00] you and therefore you'll necessarily take their share, which is crazy.[00:11:02] swyx: Would you say that kind of happens in character? Is that the, the sort of postmortem on. What happened?[00:11:10] Sarah Wang: Um,[00:11:10] Martin Casado: no.[00:11:12] Sarah Wang: Yeah, because I think so,[00:11:13] swyx: I mean the actual postmortem is, he wanted to go back to Google.[00:11:15] Exactly. But like[00:11:18] Martin Casado: that's another difference that[00:11:19] Sarah Wang: you said[00:11:21] Martin Casado: it. We should talk, we should actually talk about that.[00:11:22] swyx: Yeah,[00:11:22] Sarah Wang: that's[00:11:23] swyx: Go for it. Take it. Take,[00:11:23] Sarah Wang: yeah.[00:11:24] Character.AI, Founder Goals (AGI vs Product), and GPU Allocation Tradeoffs[00:11:24] Sarah Wang: I was gonna say, I think, um. The, the, the character thing raises actually a different issue, which actually the Frontier Labs will face as well. So we'll see how they handle it.[00:11:34] But, um, so we invest in character in January, 2023, which feels like eons ago, I mean, three years ago. Feels like lifetimes ago. But, um, and then they, uh, did the IP licensing deal with Google in August, 2020. Uh, four. And so, um, you know, at the time, no, you know, he's talked publicly about this, right? He wanted to Google wouldn't let him put out products in the world.[00:11:56] That's obviously changed drastically. But, um, he went to go do [00:12:00] that. Um, but he had a product attached. The goal was, I mean, it's Nome Shair, he wanted to get to a GI. That was always his personal goal. But, you know, I think through collecting data, right, and this sort of very human use case, that the character product.[00:12:13] Originally was and still is, um, was one of the vehicles to do that. Um, I think the real reason that, you know. I if you think about the, the stress that any company feels before, um, you ultimately going one way or the other is sort of this a GI versus product. Um, and I think a lot of the big, I think, you know, opening eyes, feeling that, um, anthropic if they haven't started, you know, felt it, certainly given the success of their products, they may start to feel that soon.[00:12:39] And the real. I think there's real trade-offs, right? It's like how many, when you think about GPUs, that's a limited resource. Where do you allocate the GPUs? Is it toward the product? Is it toward new re research? Right? Is it, or long-term research, is it toward, um, n you know, near to midterm research? And so, um, in a case where you're resource constrained, um, [00:13:00] of course there's this fundraising game you can play, right?[00:13:01] But the fund, the market was very different back in 2023 too. Um. I think the best researchers in the world have this dilemma of, okay, I wanna go all in on a GI, but it's the product usage revenue flywheel that keeps the revenue in the house to power all the GPUs to get to a GI. And so it does make, um, you know, I think it sets up an interesting dilemma for any startup that has trouble raising up until that level, right?[00:13:27] And certainly if you don't have that progress, you can't continue this fly, you know, fundraising flywheel.[00:13:32] Martin Casado: I would say that because, ‘cause we're keeping track of all of the things that are different, right? Like, you know, venture growth and uh, app infra and one of the ones is definitely the personalities of the founders.[00:13:45] It's just very different this time I've been. Been doing this for a decade and I've been doing startups for 20 years. And so, um, I mean a lot of people start this to do a GI and we've never had like a unified North star that I recall in the same [00:14:00] way. Like people built companies to start companies in the past.[00:14:02] Like that was what it was. Like I would create an internet company, I would create infrastructure company, like it's kind of more engineering builders and this is kind of a different. You know, mentality. And some companies have harnessed that incredibly well because their direction is so obviously on the path to what somebody would consider a GI, but others have not.[00:14:20] And so like there is always this tension with personnel. And so I think we're seeing more kind of founder movement.[00:14:27] Sarah Wang: Yeah.[00:14:27] Martin Casado: You know, as a fraction of founders than we've ever seen. I mean, maybe since like, I don't know the time of like Shockly and the trade DUR aid or something like that. Way back in the beginning of the industry, I, it's a very, very.[00:14:38] Unusual time of personnel.[00:14:39] Sarah Wang: Totally.[00:14:40] Talent Wars, Mega-Comp, and the Rise of Acquihire M&A[00:14:40] Sarah Wang: And it, I think it's exacerbated by the fact that talent wars, I mean, every industry has talent wars, but not at this magnitude, right? No. Yeah. Very rarely can you see someone get poached for $5 billion. That's hard to compete with. And then secondly, if you're a founder in ai, you could fart and it would be on the front page of, you know, the information these days.[00:14:59] And so there's [00:15:00] sort of this fishbowl effect that I think adds to the deep anxiety that, that these AI founders are feeling.[00:15:06] Martin Casado: Hmm.[00:15:06] swyx: Uh, yes. I mean, just on, uh, briefly comment on the founder, uh, the sort of. Talent wars thing. I feel like 2025 was just like a blip. Like I, I don't know if we'll see that again.[00:15:17] ‘cause meta built the team. Like, I don't know if, I think, I think they're kind of done and like, who's gonna pay more than meta? I, I don't know.[00:15:23] Martin Casado: I, I agree. So it feels so, it feel, it feels this way to me too. It's like, it is like, basically Zuckerberg kind of came out swinging and then now he's kind of back to building.[00:15:30] Yeah,[00:15:31] swyx: yeah. You know, you gotta like pay up to like assemble team to rush the job, whatever. But then now, now you like you, you made your choices and now they got a ship.[00:15:38] Martin Casado: I mean, the, the o other side of that is like, you know, like we're, we're actually in the job hiring market. We've got 600 people here. I hire all the time.[00:15:44] I've got three open recs if anybody's interested, that's listening to this for investor. Yeah, on, on the team, like on the investing side of the team, like, and, um, a lot of the people we talk to have acting, you know, active, um, offers for 10 million a year or something like that. And like, you know, and we pay really, [00:16:00] really well.[00:16:00] And just to see what's out on the market is really, is really remarkable. And so I would just say it's actually, so you're right, like the really flashy one, like I will get someone for, you know, a billion dollars, but like the inflated, um, uh, trickles down. Yeah, it is still very active today. I mean,[00:16:18] Sarah Wang: yeah, you could be an L five and get an offer in the tens of millions.[00:16:22] Okay. Yeah. Easily. Yeah. It's so I think you're right that it felt like a blip. I hope you're right. Um, but I think it's been, the steady state is now, I think got pulled up. Yeah. Yeah. I'll pull up for[00:16:31] Martin Casado: sure. Yeah.[00:16:32] Alessio: Yeah. And I think that's breaking the early stage founder math too. I think before a lot of people would be like, well, maybe I should just go be a founder instead of like getting paid.[00:16:39] Yeah. 800 KA million at Google. But if I'm getting paid. Five, 6 million. That's different but[00:16:45] Martin Casado: on. But on the other hand, there's more strategic money than we've ever seen historically, right? Mm-hmm. And so, yep. The economics, the, the, the, the calculus on the economics is very different in a number of ways. And, uh, it's crazy.[00:16:58] It's cra it's causing like a, [00:17:00] a, a, a ton of change in confusion in the market. Some very positive, sub negative, like, so for example, the other side of the, um. The co-founder, like, um, acquisition, you know, mark Zuckerberg poaching someone for a lot of money is like, we were actually seeing historic amount of m and a for basically acquihires, right?[00:17:20] That you like, you know, really good outcomes from a venture perspective that are effective acquihires, right? So I would say it's probably net positive from the investment standpoint, even though it seems from the headlines to be very disruptive in a negative way.[00:17:33] Alessio: Yeah.[00:17:33] What's Underfunded: Boring Software, Robotics Skepticism, and Custom Silicon Economics[00:17:33] Alessio: Um, let's talk maybe about what's not being invested in, like maybe some interesting ideas that you would see more people build or it, it seems in a way, you know, as ycs getting more popular, it's like access getting more popular.[00:17:47] There's a startup school path that a lot of founders take and they know what's hot in the VC circles and they know what gets funded. Uh, and there's maybe not as much risk appetite for. Things outside of that. Um, I'm curious if you feel [00:18:00] like that's true and what are maybe, uh, some of the areas, uh, that you think are under discussed?[00:18:06] Martin Casado: I mean, I actually think that we've taken our eye off the ball in a lot of like, just traditional, you know, software companies. Um, so like, I mean. You know, I think right now there's almost a barbell, like you're like the hot thing on X, you're deep tech.[00:18:21] swyx: Mm-hmm.[00:18:22] Martin Casado: Right. But I, you know, I feel like there's just kind of a long, you know, list of like good.[00:18:28] Good companies that will be around for a long time in very large markets. Say you're building a database, you know, say you're building, um, you know, kind of monitoring or logging or tooling or whatever. There's some good companies out there right now, but like, they have a really hard time getting, um, the attention of investors.[00:18:43] And it's almost become a meme, right? Which is like, if you're not basically growing from zero to a hundred in a year, you're not interesting, which is just, is the silliest thing to say. I mean, think of yourself as like an introvert person, like, like your personal money, right? Mm-hmm. So. Your personal money, will you put it in the stock market at 7% or you put it in this company growing five x in a very large [00:19:00] market?[00:19:00] Of course you can put it in the company five x. So it's just like we say these stupid things, like if you're not going from zero to a hundred, but like those, like who knows what the margins of those are mean. Clearly these are good investments. True for anybody, right? True. Like our LPs want whatever.[00:19:12] Three x net over, you know, the life cycle of a fund, right? So a, a company in a big market growing five X is a great investment. We'd, everybody would be happy with these returns, but we've got this kind of mania on these, these strong growths. And so I would say that that's probably the most underinvested sector.[00:19:28] Right now.[00:19:29] swyx: Boring software, boring enterprise software.[00:19:31] Martin Casado: Traditional. Really good company.[00:19:33] swyx: No, no AI here.[00:19:34] Martin Casado: No. Like boring. Well, well, the AI of course is pulling them into use cases. Yeah, but that's not what they're, they're not on the token path, right? Yeah. Let's just say that like they're software, but they're not on the token path.[00:19:41] Like these are like they're great investments from any definition except for like random VC on Twitter saying VC on x, saying like, it's not growing fast enough. What do you[00:19:52] Sarah Wang: think? Yeah, maybe I'll answer a slightly different. Question, but adjacent to what you asked, um, which is maybe an area that we're not, uh, investing [00:20:00] right now that I think is a question and we're spending a lot of time in regardless of whether we pull the trigger or not.[00:20:05] Um, and it would probably be on the hardware side, actually. Robotics, right? And the robotics side. Robotics. Right. Which is, it's, I don't wanna say that it's not getting funding ‘cause it's clearly, uh, it's, it's sort of non-consensus to almost not invest in robotics at this point. But, um, we spent a lot of time in that space and I think for us, we just haven't seen the chat GPT moment.[00:20:22] Happen on the hardware side. Um, and the funding going into it feels like it's already. Taking that for granted.[00:20:30] Martin Casado: Yeah. Yeah. But we also went through the drone, you know, um, there's a zip line right, right out there. What's that? Oh yeah, there's a zip line. Yeah. What the drone, what the av And like one of the takeaways is when it comes to hardware, um, most companies will end up verticalizing.[00:20:46] Like if you're. If you're investing in a robot company for an A for agriculture, you're investing in an ag company. ‘cause that's the competition and that's surprising. And that's supply chain. And if you're doing it for mining, that's mining. And so the ad team does a lot of that type of stuff ‘cause they actually set up to [00:21:00] diligence that type of work.[00:21:01] But for like horizontal technology investing, there's very little when it comes to robots just because it's so fit for, for purpose. And so we kinda like to look at software. Solutions or horizontal solutions like applied intuition. Clearly from the AV wave deep map, clearly from the AV wave, I would say scale AI was actually a horizontal one for That's fair, you know, for robotics early on.[00:21:23] And so that sort of thing we're very, very interested. But the actual like robot interacting with the world is probably better for different team. Agree.[00:21:30] Alessio: Yeah, I'm curious who these teams are supposed to be that invest in them. I feel like everybody's like, yeah, robotics, it's important and like people should invest in it.[00:21:38] But then when you look at like the numbers, like the capital requirements early on versus like the moment of, okay, this is actually gonna work. Let's keep investing. That seems really hard to predict in a way that is not,[00:21:49] Martin Casado: I think co, CO two, kla, gc, I mean these are all invested in in Harvard companies. He just, you know, and [00:22:00] listen, I mean, it could work this time for sure.[00:22:01] Right? I mean if Elon's doing it, he's like, right. Just, just the fact that Elon's doing it means that there's gonna be a lot of capital and a lot of attempts for a long period of time. So that alone maybe suggests that we should just be investing in robotics just ‘cause you have this North star who's Elon with a humanoid and that's gonna like basically willing into being an industry.[00:22:17] Um, but we've just historically found like. We're a huge believer that this is gonna happen. We just don't feel like we're in a good position to diligence these things. ‘cause again, robotics companies tend to be vertical. You really have to understand the market they're being sold into. Like that's like that competitive equilibrium with a human being is what's important.[00:22:34] It's not like the core tech and like we're kind of more horizontal core tech type investors. And this is Sarah and I. Yeah, the ad team is different. They can actually do these types of things.[00:22:42] swyx: Uh, just to clarify, AD stands for[00:22:44] Martin Casado: American Dynamism.[00:22:45] swyx: Alright. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I actually, I do have a related question that, first of all, I wanna acknowledge also just on the, on the chip side.[00:22:51] Yeah. I, I recall a podcast that where you were on, i, I, I think it was the a CC podcast, uh, about two or three years ago where you, where you suddenly said [00:23:00] something, which really stuck in my head about how at some point, at some point kind of scale it makes sense to. Build a custom aic Yes. For per run.[00:23:07] Martin Casado: Yes.[00:23:07] It's crazy. Yeah.[00:23:09] swyx: We're here and I think you, you estimated 500 billion, uh, something.[00:23:12] Martin Casado: No, no, no. A billion, a billion dollar training run of $1 billion training run. It makes sense to actually do a custom meic if you can do it in time. The question now is timelines. Yeah, but not money because just, just, just rough math.[00:23:22] If it's a billion dollar training. Then the inference for that model has to be over a billion, otherwise it won't be solvent. So let's assume it's, if you could save 20%, which you could save much more than that with an ASIC 20%, that's $200 million. You can tape out a chip for $200 million. Right? So now you can literally like justify economically, not timeline wise.[00:23:41] That's a different issue. An ASIC per model, which[00:23:44] swyx: is because that, that's how much we leave on the table every single time. We, we, we do like generic Nvidia.[00:23:48] Martin Casado: Exactly. Exactly. No, it, it is actually much more than that. You could probably get, you know, a factor of two, which would be 500 million.[00:23:54] swyx: Typical MFU would be like 50.[00:23:55] Yeah, yeah. And that's good.[00:23:57] Martin Casado: Exactly. Yeah. Hundred[00:23:57] swyx: percent. Um, so, so, yeah, and I mean, and I [00:24:00] just wanna acknowledge like, here we are in, in, in 2025 and opening eyes confirming like Broadcom and all the other like custom silicon deals, which is incredible. I, I think that, uh, you know, speaking about ad there's, there's a really like interesting tie in that obviously you guys are hit on, which is like these sort, this sort of like America first movement or like sort of re industrialized here.[00:24:17] Yeah. Uh, move TSMC here, if that's possible. Um, how much overlap is there from ad[00:24:23] Martin Casado: Yeah.[00:24:23] swyx: To, I guess, growth and, uh, investing in particularly like, you know, US AI companies that are strongly bounded by their compute.[00:24:32] Martin Casado: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I, I would view, I would view AD as more as a market segmentation than like a mission, right?[00:24:37] So the market segmentation is, it has kind of regulatory compliance issues or government, you know, sale or it deals with like hardware. I mean, they're just set up to, to, to, to, to. To diligence those types of companies. So it's a more of a market segmentation thing. I would say the entire firm. You know, which has been since it is been intercepted, you know, has geographical biases, right?[00:24:58] I mean, for the longest time we're like, you [00:25:00] know, bay Area is gonna be like, great, where the majority of the dollars go. Yeah. And, and listen, there, there's actually a lot of compounding effects for having a geographic bias. Right. You know, everybody's in the same place. You've got an ecosystem, you're there, you've got presence, you've got a network.[00:25:12] Um, and, uh, I mean, I would say the Bay area's very much back. You know, like I, I remember during pre COVID, like it was like almost Crypto had kind of. Pulled startups away. Miami from the Bay Area. Miami, yeah. Yeah. New York was, you know, because it's so close to finance, came up like Los Angeles had a moment ‘cause it was so close to consumer, but now it's kind of come back here.[00:25:29] And so I would say, you know, we tend to be very Bay area focused historically, even though of course we've asked all over the world. And then I would say like, if you take the ring out, you know, one more, it's gonna be the US of course, because we know it very well. And then one more is gonna be getting us and its allies and Yeah.[00:25:44] And it goes from there.[00:25:45] Sarah Wang: Yeah,[00:25:45] Martin Casado: sorry.[00:25:46] Sarah Wang: No, no. I agree. I think from a, but I think from the intern that that's sort of like where the companies are headquartered. Maybe your questions on supply chain and customer base. Uh, I, I would say our customers are, are, our companies are fairly international from that perspective.[00:25:59] Like they're selling [00:26:00] globally, right? They have global supply chains in some cases.[00:26:03] Martin Casado: I would say also the stickiness is very different.[00:26:05] Sarah Wang: Yeah.[00:26:05] Martin Casado: Historically between venture and growth, like there's so much company building in venture, so much so like hiring the next PM. Introducing the customer, like all of that stuff.[00:26:15] Like of course we're just gonna be stronger where we have our network and we've been doing business for 20 years. I've been in the Bay Area for 25 years, so clearly I'm just more effective here than I would be somewhere else. Um, where I think, I think for some of the later stage rounds, the companies don't need that much help.[00:26:30] They're already kind of pretty mature historically, so like they can kind of be everywhere. So there's kind of less of that stickiness. This is different in the AI time. I mean, Sarah is now the, uh, chief of staff of like half the AI companies in, uh, in the Bay Area right now. She's like, ops Ninja Biz, Devrel, BizOps.[00:26:48] swyx: Are, are you, are you finding much AI automation in your work? Like what, what is your stack.[00:26:53] Sarah Wang: Oh my, in my personal stack.[00:26:54] swyx: I mean, because like, uh, by the way, it's the, the, the reason for this is it is triggering, uh, yeah. We, like, I'm hiring [00:27:00] ops, ops people. Um, a lot of ponders I know are also hiring ops people and I'm just, you know, it's opportunity Since you're, you're also like basically helping out with ops with a lot of companies.[00:27:09] What are people doing these days? Because it's still very manual as far as I can tell.[00:27:13] Sarah Wang: Hmm. Yeah. I think the things that we help with are pretty network based, um, in that. It's sort of like, Hey, how do do I shortcut this process? Well, let's connect you to the right person. So there's not quite an AI workflow for that.[00:27:26] I will say as a growth investor, Claude Cowork is pretty interesting. Yeah. Like for the first time, you can actually get one shot data analysis. Right. Which, you know, if you're gonna do a customer database, analyze a cohort retention, right? That's just stuff that you had to do by hand before. And our team, the other, it was like midnight and the three of us were playing with Claude Cowork.[00:27:47] We gave it a raw file. Boom. Perfectly accurate. We checked the numbers. It was amazing. That was my like, aha moment. That sounds so boring. But you know, that's, that's the kind of thing that a growth investor is like, [00:28:00] you know, slaving away on late at night. Um, done in a few seconds.[00:28:03] swyx: Yeah. You gotta wonder what the whole, like, philanthropic labs, which is like their new sort of products studio.[00:28:10] Yeah. What would that be worth as an independent, uh, startup? You know, like a[00:28:14] Martin Casado: lot.[00:28:14] Sarah Wang: Yeah, true.[00:28:16] swyx: Yeah. You[00:28:16] Martin Casado: gotta hand it to them. They've been executing incredibly well.[00:28:19] swyx: Yeah. I, I mean, to me, like, you know, philanthropic, like building on cloud code, I think, uh, it makes sense to me the, the real. Um, pedal to the metal, whatever the, the, the phrase is, is when they start coming after consumer with, uh, against OpenAI and like that is like red alert at Open ai.[00:28:35] Oh, I[00:28:35] Martin Casado: think they've been pretty clear. They're enterprise focused.[00:28:37] swyx: They have been, but like they've been free. Here's[00:28:40] Martin Casado: care publicly,[00:28:40] swyx: it's enterprise focused. It's coding. Right. Yeah.[00:28:43] AI Labs vs Startups: Disruption, Undercutting & the Innovator's Dilemma[00:28:43] swyx: And then, and, but here's cloud, cloud, cowork, and, and here's like, well, we, uh, they, apparently they're running Instagram ads for Claudia.[00:28:50] I, on, you know, for, for people on, I get them all the time. Right. And so, like,[00:28:54] Martin Casado: uh,[00:28:54] swyx: it, it's kind of like this, the disruption thing of, uh, you know. Mo Open has been doing, [00:29:00] consumer been doing the, just pursuing general intelligence in every mo modality, and here's a topic that only focus on this thing, but now they're sort of undercutting and doing the whole innovator's dilemma thing on like everything else.[00:29:11] Martin Casado: It's very[00:29:11] swyx: interesting.[00:29:12] Martin Casado: Yeah, I mean there's, there's a very open que so for me there's like, do you know that meme where there's like the guy in the path and there's like a path this way? There's a path this way. Like one which way Western man. Yeah. Yeah.[00:29:23] Two Futures for AI: Infinite Market vs AGI Oligopoly[00:29:23] Martin Casado: And for me, like, like all the entire industry kind of like hinges on like two potential futures.[00:29:29] So in, in one potential future, um, the market is infinitely large. There's perverse economies of scale. ‘cause as soon as you put a model out there, like it kind of sublimates and all the other models catch up and like, it's just like software's being rewritten and fractured all over the place and there's tons of upside and it just grows.[00:29:48] And then there's another path which is like, well. Maybe these models actually generalize really well, and all you have to do is train them with three times more money. That's all you have to [00:30:00] do, and it'll just consume everything beyond it. And if that's the case, like you end up with basically an oligopoly for everything, like, you know mm-hmm.[00:30:06] Because they're perfectly general and like, so this would be like the, the a GI path would be like, these are perfectly general. They can do everything. And this one is like, this is actually normal software. The universe is complicated. You've got, and nobody knows the answer.[00:30:18] The Economics Reality Check: Gross Margins, Training Costs & Borrowing Against the Future[00:30:18] Martin Casado: My belief is if you actually look at the numbers of these companies, so generally if you look at the numbers of these companies, if you look at like the amount they're making and how much they, they spent training the last model, they're gross margin positive.[00:30:30] You're like, oh, that's really working. But if you look at like. The current training that they're doing for the next model, their gross margin negative. So part of me thinks that a lot of ‘em are kind of borrowing against the future and that's gonna have to slow down. It's gonna catch up to them at some point in time, but we don't really know.[00:30:47] Sarah Wang: Yeah.[00:30:47] Martin Casado: Does that make sense? Like, I mean, it could be, it could be the case that the only reason this is working is ‘cause they can raise that next round and they can train that next model. ‘cause these models have such a short. Life. And so at some point in time, like, you know, they won't be able to [00:31:00] raise that next round for the next model and then things will kind of converge and fragment again.[00:31:03] But right now it's not.[00:31:04] Sarah Wang: Totally. I think the other, by the way, just, um, a meta point. I think the other lesson from the last three years is, and we talk about this all the time ‘cause we're on this. Twitter X bubble. Um, cool. But, you know, if you go back to, let's say March, 2024, that period, it felt like a, I think an open source model with an, like a, you know, benchmark leading capability was sort of launching on a daily basis at that point.[00:31:27] And, um, and so that, you know, that's one period. Suddenly it's sort of like open source takes over the world. There's gonna be a plethora. It's not an oligopoly, you know, if you fast, you know, if you, if you rewind time even before that GPT-4 was number one for. Nine months, 10 months. It's a long time. Right.[00:31:44] Um, and of course now we're in this era where it feels like an oligopoly, um, maybe some very steady state shifts and, and you know, it could look like this in the future too, but it just, it's so hard to call. And I think the thing that keeps, you know, us up at [00:32:00] night in, in a good way and bad way, is that the capability progress is actually not slowing down.[00:32:06] And so until that happens, right, like you don't know what's gonna look like.[00:32:09] Martin Casado: But I, I would, I would say for sure it's not converged, like for sure, like the systemic capital flows have not converged, meaning right now it's still borrowing against the future to subsidize growth currently, which you can do that for a period of time.[00:32:23] But, but you know, at the end, at some point the market will rationalize that and just nobody knows what that will look like.[00:32:29] Alessio: Yeah.[00:32:29] Martin Casado: Or, or like the drop in price of compute will, will, will save them. Who knows?[00:32:34] Alessio: Yeah. Yeah. I think the models need to ask them to, to specific tasks. You know? It's like, okay, now Opus 4.5 might be a GI at some specific task, and now you can like depreciate the model over a longer time.[00:32:45] I think now, now, right now there's like no old model.[00:32:47] Martin Casado: No, but let, but lemme just change that mental, that's, that used to be my mental model. Lemme just change it a little bit.[00:32:53] Capital as a Weapon vs Task Saturation: Where Real Enterprise Value Gets Built[00:32:53] Martin Casado: If you can raise three times, if you can raise more than the aggregate of anybody that uses your models, that doesn't even matter.[00:32:59] It doesn't [00:33:00] even matter. See what I'm saying? Like, yeah. Yeah. So, so I have an API Business. My API business is 60% margin, or 70% margin, or 80% margin is a high margin business. So I know what everybody is using. If I can raise more money than the aggregate of everybody that's using it, I will consume them whether I'm a GI or not.[00:33:14] And I will know if they're using it ‘cause they're using it. And like, unlike in the past where engineering stops me from doing that.[00:33:21] Alessio: Mm-hmm.[00:33:21] Martin Casado: It is very straightforward. You just train. So I also thought it was kind of like, you must ask the code a GI, general, general, general. But I think there's also just a possibility that the, that the capital markets will just give them the, the, the ammunition to just go after everybody on top of ‘em.[00:33:36] Sarah Wang: I, I do wonder though, to your point, um, if there's a certain task that. Getting marginally better isn't actually that much better. Like we've asked them to it, to, you know, we can call it a GI or whatever, you know, actually, Ali Goi talks about this, like we're already at a GI for a lot of functions in the enterprise.[00:33:50] Um. That's probably those for those tasks, you probably could build very specific companies that focus on just getting as much value out of that task that isn't [00:34:00] coming from the model itself. There's probably a rich enterprise business to be built there. I mean, could be wrong on that, but there's a lot of interesting examples.[00:34:08] So, right, if you're looking the legal profession or, or whatnot, and maybe that's not a great one ‘cause the models are getting better on that front too, but just something where it's a bit saturated, then the value comes from. Services. It comes from implementation, right? It comes from all these things that actually make it useful to the end customer.[00:34:24] Martin Casado: Sorry, what am I, one more thing I think is, is underused in all of this is like, to what extent every task is a GI complete.[00:34:31] Sarah Wang: Mm-hmm.[00:34:32] Martin Casado: Yeah. I code every day. It's so fun.[00:34:35] Sarah Wang: That's a core question. Yeah.[00:34:36] Martin Casado: And like. When I'm talking to these models, it's not just code. I mean, it's everything, right? Like I, you know, like it's,[00:34:43] swyx: it's healthcare.[00:34:44] It's,[00:34:44] Martin Casado: I mean, it's[00:34:44] swyx: Mele,[00:34:45] Martin Casado: but it's every, it is exactly that. Like, yeah, that's[00:34:47] Sarah Wang: great support. Yeah.[00:34:48] Martin Casado: It's everything. Like I'm asking these models to, yeah, to understand compliance. I'm asking these models to go search the web. I'm asking these models to talk about things I know in the history, like it's having a full conversation with me while I, I engineer, and so it could be [00:35:00] the case that like, mm-hmm.[00:35:01] The most a, you know, a GI complete, like I'm not an a GI guy. Like I think that's, you know, but like the most a GI complete model will is win independent of the task. And we don't know the answer to that one either.[00:35:11] swyx: Yeah.[00:35:12] Martin Casado: But it seems to me that like, listen, codex in my experience is for sure better than Opus 4.5 for coding.[00:35:18] Like it finds the hardest bugs that I work in with. Like, it is, you know. The smartest developers. I don't work on it. It's great. Um, but I think Opus 4.5 is actually very, it's got a great bedside manner and it really, and it, it really matters if you're building something very complex because like, it really, you know, like you're, you're, you're a partner and a brainstorming partner for somebody.[00:35:38] And I think we don't discuss enough how every task kind of has that quality.[00:35:42] swyx: Mm-hmm.[00:35:43] Martin Casado: And what does that mean to like capital investment and like frontier models and Submodels? Yeah.[00:35:47] Why “Coding Models” Keep Collapsing into Generalists (Reasoning vs Taste)[00:35:47] Martin Casado: Like what happened to all the special coding models? Like, none of ‘em worked right. So[00:35:51] Alessio: some of them, they didn't even get released.[00:35:53] Magical[00:35:54] Martin Casado: Devrel. There's a whole, there's a whole host. We saw a bunch of them and like there's this whole theory that like, there could be, and [00:36:00] I think one of the conclusions is, is like there's no such thing as a coding model,[00:36:04] Alessio: you know?[00:36:04] Martin Casado: Like, that's not a thing. Like you're talking to another human being and it's, it's good at coding, but like it's gotta be good at everything.[00:36:10] swyx: Uh, minor disagree only because I, I'm pretty like, have pretty high confidence that basically open eye will always release a GPT five and a GT five codex. Like that's the code's. Yeah. The way I call it is one for raisin, one for Tiz. Um, and, and then like someone internal open, it was like, yeah, that's a good way to frame it.[00:36:32] Martin Casado: That's so funny.[00:36:33] swyx: Uh, but maybe it, maybe it collapses down to reason and that's it. It's not like a hundred dimensions doesn't life. Yeah. It's two dimensions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like and exactly. Beside manner versus coding. Yeah.[00:36:43] Martin Casado: Yeah.[00:36:44] swyx: It's, yeah.[00:36:46] Martin Casado: I, I think for, for any, it's hilarious. For any, for anybody listening to this for, for, for, I mean, for you, like when, when you're like coding or using these models for something like that.[00:36:52] Like actually just like be aware of how much of the interaction has nothing to do with coding and it just turns out to be a large portion of it. And so like, you're, I [00:37:00] think like, like the best Soto ish model. You know, it is going to remain very important no matter what the task is.[00:37:06] swyx: Yeah.[00:37:07] What He's Actually Coding: Gaussian Splats, Spark.js & 3D Scene Rendering Demos[00:37:07] swyx: Uh, speaking of coding, uh, I, I'm gonna be cheeky and ask like, what actually are you coding?[00:37:11] Because obviously you, you could code anything and you are obviously a busy investor and a manager of the good. Giant team. Um, what are you calling?[00:37:18] Martin Casado: I help, um, uh, FEFA at World Labs. Uh, it's one of the investments and um, and they're building a foundation model that creates 3D scenes.[00:37:27] swyx: Yeah, we had it on the pod.[00:37:28] Yeah. Yeah,[00:37:28] Martin Casado: yeah. And so these 3D scenes are Gaussian splats, just by the way that kind of AI works. And so like, you can reconstruct a scene better with, with, with radiance feels than with meshes. ‘cause like they don't really have topology. So, so they, they, they produce each. Beautiful, you know, 3D rendered scenes that are Gaussian splats, but the actual industry support for Gaussian splats isn't great.[00:37:50] It's just never, you know, it's always been meshes and like, things like unreal use meshes. And so I work on a open source library called Spark js, which is a. Uh, [00:38:00] a JavaScript rendering layer ready for Gaussian splats. And it's just because, you know, um, you, you, you need that support and, and right now there's kind of a three js moment that's all meshes and so like, it's become kind of the default in three Js ecosystem.[00:38:13] As part of that to kind of exercise the library, I just build a whole bunch of cool demos. So if you see me on X, you see like all my demos and all the world building, but all of that is just to exercise this, this library that I work on. ‘cause it's actually a very tough algorithmics problem to actually scale a library that much.[00:38:29] And just so you know, this is ancient history now, but 30 years ago I paid for undergrad, you know, working on game engines in college in the late nineties. So I've got actually a back and it's very old background, but I actually have a background in this and so a lot of it's fun. You know, but, but the, the, the, the whole goal is just for this rendering library to, to,[00:38:47] Sarah Wang: are you one of the most active contributors?[00:38:49] The, their GitHub[00:38:50] Martin Casado: spark? Yes.[00:38:51] Sarah Wang: Yeah, yeah.[00:38:51] Martin Casado: There's only two of us there, so, yes. No, so by the way, so the, the pri The pri, yeah. Yeah. So the primary developer is a [00:39:00] guy named Andres Quist, who's an absolute genius. He and I did our, our PhDs together. And so like, um, we studied for constant Quas together. It was almost like hanging out with an old friend, you know?[00:39:09] And so like. So he, he's the core, core guy. I did mostly kind of, you know, the side I run venture fund.[00:39:14] swyx: It's amazing. Like five years ago you would not have done any of this. And it brought you back[00:39:19] Martin Casado: the act, the Activ energy, you're still back. Energy was so high because you had to learn all the framework b******t.[00:39:23] Man, I f*****g used to hate that. And so like, now I don't have to deal with that. I can like focus on the algorithmics so I can focus on the scaling and I,[00:39:29] swyx: yeah. Yeah.[00:39:29] LLMs vs Spatial Intelligence + How to Value World Labs' 3D Foundation Model[00:39:29] swyx: And then, uh, I'll observe one irony and then I'll ask a serious investor question, uh, which is like, the irony is FFE actually doesn't believe that LMS can lead us to spatial intelligence.[00:39:37] And here you are using LMS to like help like achieve spatial intelligence. I just see, I see some like disconnect in there.[00:39:45] Martin Casado: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think, you know, I think, I think what she would say is LLMs are great to help with coding.[00:39:51] swyx: Yes.[00:39:51] Martin Casado: But like, that's very different than a model that actually like provides, they, they'll never have the[00:39:56] swyx: spatial inte[00:39:56] Martin Casado: issues.[00:39:56] And listen, our brains clearly listen, our brains, brains clearly have [00:40:00] both our, our brains clearly have a language reasoning section and they clearly have a spatial reasoning section. I mean, it's just, you know, these are two pretty independent problems.[00:40:07] swyx: Okay. And you, you, like, I, I would say that the, the one data point I recently had, uh, against it is the DeepMind, uh, IMO Gold, where, so, uh, typically the, the typical answer is that this is where you start going down the neuros symbolic path, right?[00:40:21] Like one, uh, sort of very sort of abstract reasoning thing and one form, formal thing. Um, and that's what. DeepMind had in 2024 with alpha proof, alpha geometry, and now they just use deep think and just extended thinking tokens. And it's one model and it's, and it's in LM.[00:40:36] Martin Casado: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.[00:40:37] swyx: And so that, that was my indication of like, maybe you don't need a separate system.[00:40:42] Martin Casado: Yeah. So, so let me step back. I mean, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, these things are like nodes in a graph with weights on them. Right. You know, like it can be modeled like if you, if you distill it down. But let me just talk about the two different substrates. Let's, let me put you in a dark room.[00:40:56] Like totally black room. And then let me just [00:41:00] describe how you exit it. Like to your left, there's a table like duck below this thing, right? I mean like the chances that you're gonna like not run into something are very low. Now let me like turn on the light and you actually see, and you can do distance and you know how far something away is and like where it is or whatever.[00:41:17] Then you can do it, right? Like language is not the right primitives to describe. The universe because it's not exact enough. So that's all Faye, Faye is talking about. When it comes to like spatial reasoning, it's like you actually have to know that this is three feet far, like that far away. It is curved.[00:41:37] You have to understand, you know, the, like the actual movement through space.[00:41:40] swyx: Yeah.[00:41:40] Martin Casado: So I do, I listen, I do think at the end of these models are definitely converging as far as models, but there's, there's, there's different representations of problems you're solving. One is language. Which, you know, that would be like describing to somebody like what to do.[00:41:51] And the other one is actually just showing them and the space reasoning is just showing them.[00:41:55] swyx: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Got it, got it. Uh, the, in the investor question was on, on, well labs [00:42:00] is, well, like, how do I value something like this? What, what, what work does the, do you do? I'm just like, Fefe is awesome.[00:42:07] Justin's awesome. And you know, the other two co-founder, co-founders, but like the, the, the tech, everyone's building cool tech. But like, what's the value of the tech? And this is the fundamental question[00:42:16] Martin Casado: of, well, let, let, just like these, let me just maybe give you a rough sketch on the diffusion models. I actually love to hear Sarah because I'm a venture for, you know, so like, ventures always, always like kind of wild west type[00:42:24] swyx: stuff.[00:42:24] You, you, you, you paid a dream and she has to like, actually[00:42:28] Martin Casado: I'm gonna say I'm gonna mar to reality, so I'm gonna say the venture for you. And she can be like, okay, you a little kid. Yeah. So like, so, so these diffusion models literally. Create something for, for almost nothing. And something that the, the world has found to be very valuable in the past, in our real markets, right?[00:42:45] Like, like a 2D image. I mean, that's been an entire market. People value them. It takes a human being a long time to create it, right? I mean, to create a, you know, a, to turn me into a whatever, like an image would cost a hundred bucks in an hour. The inference cost [00:43:00] us a hundredth of a penny, right? So we've seen this with speech in very successful companies.[00:43:03] We've seen this with 2D image. We've seen this with movies. Right? Now, think about 3D scene. I mean, I mean, when's Grand Theft Auto coming out? It's been six, what? It's been 10 years. I mean, how, how like, but hasn't been 10 years.[00:43:14] Alessio: Yeah.[00:43:15] Martin Casado: How much would it cost to like, to reproduce this room in 3D? Right. If you, if you, if you hired somebody on fiber, like in, in any sort of quality, probably 4,000 to $10,000.[00:43:24] And then if you had a professional, probably $30,000. So if you could generate the exact same thing from a 2D image, and we know that these are used and they're using Unreal and they're using Blend, or they're using movies and they're using video games and they're using all. So if you could do that for.[00:43:36] You know, less than a dollar, that's four or five orders of magnitude cheaper. So you're bringing the marginal cost of something that's useful down by three orders of magnitude, which historically have created very large companies. So that would be like the venture kind of strategic dreaming map.[00:43:49] swyx: Yeah.[00:43:50] And, and for listeners, uh, you can do this yourself on your, on your own phone with like. Uh, the marble.[00:43:55] Martin Casado: Yeah. Marble.[00:43:55] swyx: Uh, or but also there's many Nerf apps where you just go on your iPhone and, and do this.[00:43:59] Martin Casado: Yeah. Yeah. [00:44:00] Yeah. And, and in the case of marble though, it would, what you do is you literally give it in.[00:44:03] So most Nerf apps you like kind of run around and take a whole bunch of pictures and then you kind of reconstruct it.[00:44:08] swyx: Yeah.[00:44:08] Martin Casado: Um, things like marble, just that the whole generative 3D space will just take a 2D image and it'll reconstruct all the like, like[00:44:16] swyx: meaning it has to fill in. Uh,[00:44:18] Martin Casado: stuff at the back of the table, under the table, the back, like, like the images, it doesn't see.[00:44:22] So the generator stuff is very different than reconstruction that it fills in the things that you can't see.[00:44:26] swyx: Yeah. Okay.[00:44:26] Sarah Wang: So,[00:44:27] Martin Casado: all right. So now the,[00:44:28] Sarah Wang: no, no. I mean I love that[00:44:29] Martin Casado: the adult[00:44:29] Sarah Wang: perspective. Um, well, no, I was gonna say these are very much a tag team. So we, we started this pod with that, um, premise. And I think this is a perfect question to even build on that further.[00:44:36] ‘cause it truly is, I mean, we're tag teaming all of these together.[00:44:39] Investing in Model Labs, Media Rumors, and the Cursor Playbook (Margins & Going Down-Stack)[00:44:39] Sarah Wang: Um, but I think every investment fundamentally starts with the same. Maybe the same two premises. One is, at this point in time, we actually believe that there are. And of one founders for their particular craft, and they have to be demonstrated in their prior careers, right?[00:44:56] So, uh, we're not investing in every, you know, now the term is NEO [00:45:00] lab, but every foundation model, uh, any, any company, any founder trying to build a foundation model, we're not, um, contrary to popular opinion, we're

Viral Mindfulness the Podcast
"Live The Life That Chooses You" The Final Chapter of Our Winter Soul Care Series

Viral Mindfulness the Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2026 21:25


Are you feeling disillusioned? Disappointed? Bitter? Sour? In this final installment of the Winter Soul Care Series, Alexander Blue Feather offers a powerful closing reflection on self-compassion as medicine for modern life. Opening with Rebecca Del Rio's poem Prescription for the Disillusioned, this episode explores how the overly critical mind contracts the soul. Be inspired to learn how compassion creates space for ripening, renewal and fresh beginnings. Drawing from Francis Weller's teachings on the “generous heart,” Alexander reflects on self-judgment, the muscular agenda of self-improvement, and the quiet violence we sometimes direct toward ourselves. Through personal story (including the one-year anniversary of his father's passing and a new chapter in South Bay) this episode becomes both teaching and testimony. What if the soul does not demand perfection or acceleration, but instead asks for mercy? What if compassion means “to suffer with," especially with yourself? This is an invitation to soften, to include your ancestors, to release rigid expectations, and to befriend your life as it is unfolding now. For spiritual explorers navigating grief, transition, and change, this episode offers a gentle and grounding prescription.

Thru the Bible on Oneplace.com
Revelation 10:8—11:2

Thru the Bible on Oneplace.com

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2026 26:00


Bitter and sweet—that's how the angel describes the little book he tells John to eat. The judgment is bitter, but the future is sweet and full of promise. Breathe a little easier in this interlude between the 6th and 7th trumpets and learn more about the 70th week of Daniel we now are studying.

Ancient Faith Today Live
Roman Catholic Liturgical Reform's Bitter Fruit

Ancient Faith Today Live

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2026


The Roman Catholic church's liturgical reforms continue to meet passionate resistance 60 years later. We'll review the state of their reforms to help us distinguish between the natural development of Orthodox liturgical practice and a destructive agenda-driven reform.

Dr. GPCR Podcast
GPCR Location and Lipid Raft Signaling

Dr. GPCR Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2026 37:01


Key TakeawaysHow does the precise localization of GPCRs in lipid rafts reshape drug discovery strategy? Examine implications for functional assays and therapeutic innovation.Explore the pivotal role of GPCR-lipid raft compartmentalization in receptor signaling, desensitization, and pharmacology research. Dr. Keyvan Sedaghat discusses assay approaches, regulatory mechanisms, and the translational impact of bitter taste receptors beyond sensory biology. Leveraging decades of experience in assay development and database creation, he offers actionable insights for researchers optimizing GPCR drug discovery pipelines.Compartmentalization of GPCRs in lipid rafts directly influences receptor signaling and drug response.Desensitization pathways of dopamine D1 receptors depend on precise phosphorylation domains—challenging classical paradigms.Bitter taste receptors demonstrate functional relevance in non-gustatory tissues with emerging therapeutic applications.Database-driven research accelerates the identification of receptor-microdomain interactions for novel targets.Integration of computational modeling and biochemical validation is essential for advancing GPCR assay strategies.Dr. GPCR Links & ResourcesAccess the Dr. GPCR Ecosystem at https://www.ecosystem.drgpcr.com/ for community, tools, and databases.Details on Membership & Pricing: https://www.ecosystem.drgpcr.com/university-pricingGPCR Weekly News: https://www.ecosystem.drgpcr.com/gpcr-weekly-newsExplore Dr. GPCR Premium for expanded translational resources and networking.About the GuestDr. Keyvan Sedaghat holds a pharmacy degree and a PhD in cellular and molecular medicine, specializing in pharmacology, from the University of Ottawa. With over two decades of academic experience, he has served as a professor, senior lecturer, and chief scientific officer in the pharmaceutical and cosmetic industries. Dr. Sedaghat's work spans peer-reviewed publications and editorial roles across journals in molecular pharmacology, cell signaling, and G protein-coupled receptors. His scientific drive centers on unraveling molecular mechanisms underlying GPCR function and translating those findings into effective teaching, research, and drug discovery strategies.Guest on the Web:LinkedInGoogle Scholar

The Brülosophy Podcast
Episode 417 | Short & Shoddy: Ordinary Bitter

The Brülosophy Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 17, 2026 65:35


Brülosophy merch is available - click here to see all we have to offer! Contributor Will Lovell joins Marshall to discuss the classic British ale known as Ordinary Bitter, as well as what tasters thought of a version brewed using a Short & Shoddy approach. Become a Brülosophy Patron today and be rewarded for your support! | Relevant Article | Short & Shoddy Ordinary Bitter

Mikkipedia
Calocurb: Can Bitter Hops Replace GLP-1 Meds? with Sarah Kennedy

Mikkipedia

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 17, 2026 52:26


Webinar link: https://www.mikkiwilliden.com/unlocking-fatloss-success Save 20% on all Nuzest Products WORLDWIDE with the code MIKKIPEDIA at www.nuzest.co.nz, www.nuzest.com.au or www.nuzest.comCurranz Supplement: Use code MIKKIPEDIA to get 20% off your first order - go to www.curranz.co.nz  or www.curranz.co.uk to order yours This week on the podcast Mikki speaks to Sarah Kennedy, cofounder of Calocurb. They discuss the origins of the product and how Amarasate was discovered, how it works, why it's potentially better than taking a synthetic version of GLP-1 agonist, how it works with your body, and why it's the only product on the market that has clinical evidence behind its use in this space. They also discuss the efficacy of it, how to use it and what users should expect. This was a great conversation for anyone considering a GLP-1 or coming off a GLP-1, pros and cons all covered.Listeners of the show can get 10% off their purchase by using the code Mikkipedia10 at www.calocurb.com Sarah Kennedy is the Chief Executive Officer of Calocurb and a commercial leader in New Zealand's biotechnology sector. With a background in health innovation, strategy, and global commercialisation, Sarah has played a central role in bringing Calocurb's proprietary bitter hops extract, Amarasate®, to international markets as a natural appetite-support supplement grounded in gut–brain axis research.Prior to leading Calocurb, Sarah built extensive experience across life sciences, nutraceuticals, and technology-driven ventures, working at the intersection of science translation and consumer health. She is known for her ability to bridge rigorous research with practical application, guiding multidisciplinary teams through product development, regulatory pathways, and global distribution.Under her leadership, Calocurb has expanded internationally, positioning New Zealand-derived functional ingredients at the forefront of evidence-informed metabolic health solutions.Sarah Kennedy : https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-kennedy-0a840b13/  Contact Mikki:https://mikkiwilliden.com/https://www.facebook.com/mikkiwillidennutritionhttps://www.instagram.com/mikkiwilliden/https://linktr.ee/mikkiwilliden

Coffee Convos with Kail Lowry & Lindsie Chrisley

CC463: On this month's bonus episode... Lindsie and Kail share more stories on the complexities of co-parenting and the exhaustion of being the "default parent". They discuss the challenges of managing children's appointments, sports commitments, and the resentment that can build when responsibilities aren't shared equally. Also, a listener writes in to ask "Is It Cheating?" Thank you to our sponsors!Better Help: This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/coffee today to get 10% off your first month.Little Spoon: Go to littlespoon.com/COFFEECONVOS and enter code COFFEECONVOS for 30% off your first orderQuince: Go to Quince.com/coffee to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next orderRocket Money: Cancel unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/COFFEECONVOSRoBody: Find out if you're covered for free at Ro.Co/COFFEECONVOS. Rx only.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Guy Benson Show
BENSON BYTE: Jason Miyares Discusses the "Bitter Price" of Dem Wins in VA

Guy Benson Show

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 16, 2026 21:16


Jason Miyares, former Attorney General of Virginia and partner at Torridon Law, joined us on the Guy Benson Show today to discuss the first few months of leftist leadership in Virginia. While Democrats claimed to be moderates in the 2025 statewide elections, their first few months in leadership has been marked by sewage spills, gerrymandering, and radical crime policy. Listen to the full interview and Miyares' warning to the rest of the country at the link below. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

United Church of God Sermons
The Bitter Fruit of Long Patience

United Church of God Sermons

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 14, 2026 54:40


By Jay Ledbetter - In this sermon on the “bitter but beautiful” fruit of longsuffering from Galatians 5:22–23, we are reminded that true long patience—makrothyméō—is not merely enduring inconvenience, but bravely bearing offenses with grace, just as God has done toward us. Through powerful glimpses of God's character

The Doctor Is In Podcast
1756. The Bitter Truth About High Fructose Corn Syrup

The Doctor Is In Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 13, 2026 29:42


Join Dr. Martin in today's episode of The Doctor Is In Podcast.  

Nuus
Bitter krisis vir suikerbedryf in SA

Nuus

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 13, 2026 0:18


Die Suid-Afrikaanse suikernywerheid staar 'n ernstige krisis in die gesig met Tongaat Hulett wat nader aan likwidasie beweeg. Die maatskappy se meulens, raffinaderye en verbouing van suikerriet ondersteun duisende klein- en grootskaalse produsente in KwaZulu-Natal en Mpumalanga. Die voorsitter van die SA Suikerrietkwekersvereniging, Higgins Mdluli, waarsku die ineenstorting bedreig die lewensbestaan van duisende suikerrietprodusente. Mdluli doen 'n beroep op die regering en Tongaat se reddingspraktisyns om dringend die voortsetting van die meulbedryf te verseker en produsente se inkomste te beskerm:

bitter kwazulu natal krisis mpumalanga tongaat die suid afrikaanse tongaat hulett
Retrovaniacs
Episode 231 : The very delayed mailbag show!

Retrovaniacs

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2026 60:29


Jeremy P is more or less back from his unexpected medical leave, and so we're picking up right where we left off by kicking off 2026 with the mailbag show we should have had at the end of 2025! Join us over on our Discord to discuss the podcast, video games, or really anything over at https://discord.gg/pb76x32uWY __________________________ If you would like additional bonus episodes of Retrovaniacs or to request a game we must cover, our Patreon is located here : https://www.patreon.com/user?u=21041333 If you enjoy this podcast, why not write a review wherever you download it from? It's easy, and helps people find us by accident. Find everything Retrovaniacs at http://www.retrovania.net Intro song is "8-Bitter" by Subtastics, and is used with permission, mainly because Jeremy P is in that band.

The Feds
121. Inside Military Vaccine Retaliation | R. Davis Younts, Esq. & Kim Bitter | The Feds

The Feds

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2026 58:31


The mandates may be over — but the punishment isn't.

Communism Exposed:East and West
Chapter 25 A Desperate Bitter Concubine Resorts to Black Spells to Kill But Divine Intervention Saves the Victims

Communism Exposed:East and West

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2026 28:06


Masterpiece Podcasts: Collection of Chinese Classic Novels

Simon Temple AME Zion Church
I'm too Blessed to be Bitter

Simon Temple AME Zion Church

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 8, 2026 32:14


The John Batchelor Show
S8 Ep422: Professor Eve MacDonald explains how the First Punic War erupted over Sicily, transforming former allies Rome and Carthage into bitter enemies competing for Mediterranean dominance and trade supremacy.

The John Batchelor Show

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 6, 2026 11:30


Professor Eve MacDonald explains how the First Punic War erupted over Sicily, transforming former allies Rome and Carthage into bitter enemies competing for Mediterranean dominance and trade supremacy.Syracuse

Rumble in the Morning
News with Sean 2-6-2026 …Warning: Bitter Cold on the Way

Rumble in the Morning

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 6, 2026 16:58


News with Sean 2-6-2026 …Warning: Bitter Cold on the Way …Trump RX launches …Astronauts and their Smart Phones

The Rich Keefe Show
Drake Maye might still be bitter about Cam Newton

The Rich Keefe Show

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 5, 2026 5:19


When asked about his idol and who he models his game after, Drake Maye mentioned a lot of names and not one of them was Cam Newton so their could be some saltiness from the Patriots' quarterback.

TODAY
TODAY News, February 3:   New Details in Search for Nancy Guthrie | Impact From Record Snow and Bitter Cold | Clintons Agree to Testify in Epstein Investigation

TODAY

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 3, 2026 31:41


NBC News' Liz Kreutz brings the newest developments on Savannah Guthrie's missing 84-year-old mother Nancy Guthrie in Arizona. Also, tens of millions brace for bitter cold temperatures up and down the east coast as parts of the south enter a second week without power and heat. Plus, the Clintons have agreed to testify before a House Committee in the latest fallout on the Jeffrey Epstein investigation. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A Book Like No Other
The Manna, Part 2

A Book Like No Other

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 3, 2026 44:26


In this episode Rabbi Fohrman puts the bitter herbs - maror - under a microscope. Why do we need to hold onto a reminder of our slavery, during a Passover seder that represents freedom? Drawing from a principle of teshuvah - repentance, our hosts carve out an incredible principle in human psychology and what it takes to heal from trauma.Can't Skip the Bitter (to Get to the Sweet)(Verse 1) In Egypt the bread held the taste of our tears Sourdough—you couldn't tell where it stopped The sourness baked into four hundred years Until the whole batch was bitter and lockedBut God didn't hand us the honey that night Didn't say: forget it, here's something new He gave us flat bread with bitter alongside— Separated. Still there. Still true.(Chorus) You can't skip the bitter to get to the sweet You can't leave the sorrow behind The only way forward is going back through it One morning at a time(Verse 2) The manna came later, the honey came slow Forty years of daily bread Each day God was asking: do you believe now that you're more than the tears that you've shed?And every spring we sit down at the table Flat bread and bitter, side by side Not because we're still slaves—because we remember What it took to come back alive(Chorus) You can't skip the bitter to get to the sweet You can't leave the sorrow behind The only way forward is going back through itOne morning at a time(Bridge) Each day the same question fallingLike bread upon the ground:Are you more than what was done to you?Are you more than what you've done?(Verse 3) Two families broken, made into one He said: leave the past where it liesBuild something new now, the future's begun But nobody asked who we were before the goodbyesAnd forty years later I knocked on her door I said there's something I never did right I never once asked you to tell me the story Of who held your hand through the long, long night(Chorus) Tell me about your mother What was it like when she was yours? Tell me about your mother I should have asked you this beforeYou can't skip the bitter to get to the sweet You can't leave the sorrow behind The only way forward is going back through it And that's what I'm doing this timeYou can also listen to this song on Youtube and Spotify.We love to hear from you! Click here to share your thoughts, insights, questions, and reactions by voice note, or send us an email at info@alephbeta.org. A Book Like No Other is a product of Aleph Beta, and made possible through the generous support of Shari and Nathan Lindenbaum. Aleph Beta is a Torah media company dedicated to spreading the joy and love of meaningful Torah learning worldwide.

Hans & Scotty G.
HOUR 1: Is Ace Bailey playing the right role for the Utah Jazz? | Should Justin Jefferson be bitter that the Vikings let go of Sam Darnold? | Egor Demin is adjusting to the NBA very nicely

Hans & Scotty G.

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 2, 2026 42:28


Jake Scott & Ben Anderson fill in for the first hour with Scotty G out for the day Is Ace Bailey playing the right role for the Utah Jazz? Should Minnesota Vikings Wide Receiver Justin Jefferson be bitter that the team let Sam Darnold walk? Egor Demin is adjusting to the NBA Level quite nicely. 

BEING HER with Margarita Nazarenko
150: Why Some Women Don't Grow With You (And How to Let Go Without Becoming Bitter)

BEING HER with Margarita Nazarenko

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 1, 2026 14:17


→ Pre-Order my NEW Book: Unbothered: The Art of Letting Go to Find Yourself by Margarita Nazarenko https://geni.us/Unbothered → Pre-ordered already? Claim your bonus: https://www.margaritanazarenko.com/pre-order → UNBOTHERED 3 Day Masterclass: https://www.margaritanazarenko.com/joinlive→ FREE: The Unbothered Reset: 30 Days to Become Her.Every day for 30 days, you'll receive a short email. Start the 30-Day Reset: https://www.margaritanazarenko.com/unbotheredreset→ HER Journal: https://margaritanazarenko.myshopify.com/products/her-journalCourses aren't public anymore, join via email.Find me:IG: @margarita.nazarenko Podcast: Being HerBusiness/Press: Elleny@mgmt.com.auSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

kPod - The Kidd Kraddick Morning Show
Bitter Cold Or Bitter And Cold

kPod - The Kidd Kraddick Morning Show

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 27, 2026 11:27


We're stuck at home because of the ice, and it is giving us Covid flashbacks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The John Batchelor Show
S8 Ep375: John Hardie Hardie reports that Ukraine's deep strike campaign against Russian territory intensified in mid-2025, focusing primarily on energy infrastructure like oil refineries. Despite a "very bitter winter" leaving Kyiv without hea

The John Batchelor Show

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 26, 2026 1:32


John Hardie Hardie reports that Ukraine's deep strike campaign against Russian territory intensified in mid-2025, focusing primarily on energy infrastructure like oil refineries. Despite a "very bitter winter" leaving Kyiv without heat, there is talk of potentially reviving a failed energy truce from earlier in Trump's second term. Hardie suggests this could serve as a confidence-building measure toward de-escalation and a broader deal.1859 ODESSA

Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee
The Bitter Truth About Sugar with Dr Robert Lustig (Re-release) #616

Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 25, 2026 109:32


My guest on this week's Feel Better Live More podcast is Dr Robert Lustig, Professor of Paediatric Endocrinology at the University of California. He's a leading public health expert who has long been exposing the myths of modern medicine and the food industry. His passion is communicating how sugar and ultra-processed food is fuelling the chronic disease epidemic that we are all facing today. Obesity, type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart disease and so much more are caused, in Rob's view, by the foods that we are eating. In his latest book, Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition and Modern Medicine, he outlines what he calls the ‘hateful eight' – the eight root causes in our body that underlie all chronic disease. He explains how food and sugar impact on them and, most importantly, suggests strategies to counteract them. In this conversation, Rob explains why sugar is so damaging and explains that just like alcohol, our bodies can cope with sugar in small amounts. But in excess will end up in the liver and ultimately trigger us to get sick. Rob's decades of clinical experience and research has led to his bold and compelling assertion that the answer to all chronic disease can be found in real food. His solution? To ‘protect the liver, feed the gut'. I think these 6 words are an elegant way of summarising the nutritional advice that all of us should consider taking on board in order to improve our health and wellbeing. We talk about what constitutes ‘real food' and how different levels of food processing are classified. Rob explains why sugar-sweetened drinks are so disastrous for health, particularly in children – and why diet drinks do just as much damage, if not more.  We also talk about TOFI (thin on the outside, fat on the inside) and fascinatingly, Rob outlines the three types of fat gain that we can all experience: subcutaneous (which you can see); visceral (stress-related fat around the middle), and liver fat. It's only the first of these that you're likely to notice – but it's the latter two which we really need to fix, especially as they're already appearing in kids. This conversation is full of mind-blowing facts and insights but it's also really empowering and contains simple, practical tips that all of us can use to improve our lives. I hope you enjoy listening.  Caution: contains mild swearing.   Support the podcast and enjoy Ad-Free episodes. Try FREE for 7 days on Apple Podcasts https://apple.co/feelbetterlivemore. For other podcast platforms go to https://fblm.supercast.com. Thanks to our sponsors: https://ag1.com/livemore https://thewayapp.com/livemore   Show notes https://drchatterjee.com/616   DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or qualified healthcare provider. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.