Podcast appearances and mentions of rob brian

Percussion Discussion - Episode 129 - Rob BrianJoining me today is English drummer Rob BrianRob has carved out an incredible career for himself so far, having wonderful names on his CV such as Miles Kane, Siouxsie Sioux, Peter Gabriel, Hugh Cornwell, Simple Minds, Clara Ponty, Modern English and many more.Join Rob and myself for a fascinating and free flowing chat about his amazing career, we talk about Robs obvious passion for education, he tells us how important it is to pass on and share information and that how the drumming community thankfully thrives on doing this.Rob and I also talk in-depth about his gig with Siouxsie Sioux, a gig he has held since 2006, and the challenge of playing some of the unique and tricky parts of the original Banshees drummer and former guest on this podcast Budgie.We had to chat about Rob's involvement in the upcoming tour with Gary Astridge in February 2024 - The Legendary Drums and Drumming of a Starr, a tribute to the Genius of Ringo Starr, Gary Astridge (Ringo's curator of all the Beatles era drum kits, historian and friend of Ringo) will be hosting the evening featuring some incredible Ringo facts, storied and a multimedia presentation along with Rob demonstrating some of Ringos grooves and rather unique traits behind a drum kit!Thanks to Rob for a totally fascinating chat - checkout his website www.robertbrian.co.uk

Navigating your way through the tech stack and business processes can be daunting. But it doesn't have to be. In this episode, Rob Brian reveals his secrets on making process management and measurement strategies work for your business. Learn how balancing expenses and empowering employees can help you reap profits in the long run. Get insights into core values that foster loyalty with long-term partnerships. And find out how an influential tech stack, IT services, business processes, and measurement can set you up for success and growth. Robin Brian, founder and CEO of Cogent Analytics, helps businesses make difficult decisions. From optimising cash reserves to developing risk mitigation plans and creating value management strategies, Cogent Analytics is committed to helping entrepreneurs succeed during difficult times. Their expertise has allowed them to help business owners turn around failing businesses, strengthen relationships and reach new heights of growth and success. They are also dedicated to improving the lives of business owners and their families, providing security for employees and their communities. Tune in today to gain invaluable insight from this leading entrepreneur!

The Philadelphia Flyers have managed to kick off the NHL season on a high note with a great win over the New Jersey Devils and then a solid come-from-behind win against the Vancouver Canucks. But now the Orange and Black prepare to face their biggest challenge so far this year in the Tampa Bay Lightning. Can the Flyers overcome this great foe and continue their winning ways? Join Matt, Brad, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour.

After the 4-game homestand to open the regular season, the Flyers have a solid 2-1-1 record and are now on the road bound for Edmonton as they play the Oilers on Wednesday night to begin a West Canada road trip. Can the Flyers rebound after a tough loss to the Panthers? And will this road trip be a strong showing for the Orange and Black outside of the Wells Fargo Center? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 8 right here on a2dradio.com.

After a short off-season, the Flyers are back and the boys of the Hockey Happy Hour are here to break down what they've seen in the preseason. Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 8 only on a2dradio.com as they take a deep dive into the Orange and Black, plus the major happenings around the league.

After stocking up on Veteran leadership and resigning young talents in the off-season, the Flyers now prepare for their training camp. With all the changes made what can we expect from the Flyers' young prospects, can any crack the roster? Will we see a bright future superstar in the making? All these questions and more shall be answered right here on a2dradio.com live at 8 with Matt, Rob & Brian from an all-new Hockey Happy Hour.

Tune in now and don't forget to sign up for www.solciety.co!Speaker 1 (00:03):Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong and I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in a year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bringing the top solar dogs, the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals. What is a Solarpreneur you might ask a Solarpreneur is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.Speaker 2 (00:41):What's going on. Solarpreneurs. We are back with another episode and I'm excited today because we are in the studio with Mr. Dan Dunn. What's going on, Dan? Thanks for coming on the show. You bet.Speaker 3 (00:52):Good. He could to be here. Okay. Well, you'reSpeaker 2 (00:56):Hearing me too. Yeah, it's, it's fun. We're hearing a Newport beach, made the drive up here from San Diego and, um, we're doing some video content too. So excited about that. So Dan, you want to tell us a little bit how you got like in the solar space and your background, where you came from and everything.Speaker 3 (01:14):Sure. Yeah. I should have this down to an elevator pitch by now. Um, I was born in Illinois in the Midwest. I was then transplanted, California. So I clean California is my place of growth, I guess kind of sounds a little cooler. Um, and then, uh, went to yeah, went to college in Utah. I then, uh, and I majored in music in English. We just talked about that before this podcast started. Yeah. Um, yeah. I love music nerd and music nerd. That's right. And actually, uh, the movie pitch. Perfect. I was actually telling, um, this guy to the, to the left ear off, off camera earlier that, uh, my wife and I met through similar circumstances as Anna Kendrick and the guy. I don't remember his name anyway. She was in a female acapella group. I was in vocal point male acapella group kind of came together like jets and sharks and west side story anyway. Um, so yeah, met my wife there been married almost 16 years. Uh, live in Southern California. I love this place. Feels like home will never leave. And, uh, old harness. I started the harness brands in 2017, so we're almost five years old next year. Awesome. Um, and then have a production company in the music space called prosody music. Okay. That's me in a nutshell.Speaker 2 (02:31):That's awesome. I love hearing guys that are like, you know, like music nerds and stuff like that. Cause I was just telling you, I was a music major myself in college, studied drums, percussion. That was the dream I was all about, you know, just graduating and being a music teacher, making my 30, 40 grand a year. And I was like, this is it. I'm going to love it. That's the dream. And then yeah, came out. Yeah. Came out, made that, you know, like in the summer or whatever. And I'm like, it's a little bit longer.Speaker 3 (03:02):Right. I can still picture, Hey, imagine dragons. When they have their live shows, they need some good drummers up there. Right. Have you ever been to one of those?Speaker 2 (03:09):Uh, I haven't been to their show, but I haven't been to, I don't know. Been to all its other concerts. Yeah. Same with maybe they'll listen to this podcast. If they're listening, give me a call and I'll beSpeaker 3 (03:19):In the drummer. We've got a table right here. He can start anyway.Speaker 2 (03:22):Let's do it. But yeah, what I wanted to ask you, Dan, I mean being like music, English and all that. Yeah. Do you feel like, I mean, I don't think there's a ton of us that did music before, um, you know, solar, but the few that I have met that have, I feel like, I dunno, it's helped them in a way. Maybe like creativity. Do you feel like music has helped you in business or in any, any aspects of what you're doing now?Speaker 3 (03:45):Absolutely. So I mean, scientific studies have shown if you put your kids in piano lessons early on, they'll connect certain parts of their brain and think more critically. And I'm not trying to pump myself up at all. I mean, don't feel deficient out there guys, if you didn't get piano lessons, it's not your fault, but it does help. Uh, yeah. You looking at problems from multiple sides of the spectrum. And so when your brain makes those connections, you have kind of that openness to multiple solutions and seeing both sides of an argument, uh, really, really helps in problem solving interpersonal relationships, um, leading. It helps them and I think all aspects of business to me. Yeah.Speaker 2 (04:23):That's awesome. Leading. Why do you say that?Speaker 3 (04:27):Well, because as a leader, you're going to come across the fires. We have to put out constantly. Right. And so to put out fires, you could, you could throw a huge bucket of water on it and say, it's good. Or you could kind of massage it and come at it strategically and see if there's, you know, two or three different ways to go at it. And which one's best consider the consequences. Being able to look at that, that cube from all sides, I think will, uh, it has paid dividends. SoSpeaker 2 (04:53):Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. No, and I always compare it to just like, I'm sure, you know, music where you like a specific instrument. Are we just voice Canon boys in a way? Okay. Yeah, for me, it's like, I don't know about you, but all those hours you put in practicing. Yeah. That's true. That's something that I feel like it's like, I was, I was no way like a natural sales guy or whatever. And I still, like, I'm not like the top guy, but because of all those hours that I put in not being the top drummer or whatever, I'm like, okay, why don't I just use that same, you know, method of getting better at cells all the hours I put in practicing the guys are doing it. You know,Speaker 3 (05:27):I just made that connection. Now. That's crazy. I used to like hold myself up in a practice room for four to six hours a day just going at the keys. That's and then of course that's what I did on the doors too. That's weird. Never made that connection. Yeah.Speaker 2 (05:41):So cool. I think it's super power for sure. I agree. Well, you know, can go with a distance like that, but cool, man. So tell us Dan, how, uh, so harness you started that in 2017. Yep. Okay. And were you, uh, just working on a sales team before, how did you transition to like starting your own company and everything?Speaker 3 (06:00):Yeah. So back in 2002, I started doing pest control for a couple of summers. Then I did alarms for eight and a half years, mostly summers, but also some year round programs built up, you know, deems and regions during that time. And then transition to solar in 2012 with vivant, when they started their San Diego office, I was in that original office that was full of all kinds of cool guys. We were, we were a cool crew. Anybody that's listening? I don't know if you are, but it was, it was cool. Everybody from that office branched out and either became at least DMS, mostly regional VPs, owner, company owners, et cetera. Um, and so, uh, helped them went up to orange county and then, uh, left for solar city Tesla. And uh, when Elan fired us all in 2017, best thing that happened to me. Um, that's when I started harness because I, I felt like I had learned enough. Yeah.Speaker 2 (06:53):Okay. Yeah. A lot of good. A lot of superstars came from that. Yeah. Including, uh, you know, Taylor McCarthy. We were just talking about that a lot too. That's cool. We've been solar though. Were you, uh, do you know Rob Brian river? Yeah, for sure. With CLL, we used to call them the bull. The bull. Was he back there in 2012 with you guys? He was, yeah, he was in that office. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. So he, uh, yeah. New power that company he used to work for, he went on to be like VP of sales for that company. Yeah. Yeah. He was my boss for a long time over there, but I know that's cool. Yeah. A lot of superstars came from that and um, I know it was like rough, at least according to Rob, he said it's pretty rough. In the beginning, you have water issues with stuff. Well, we feltSpeaker 3 (07:34):So good about selling a 15 cent PPA for like $200 a kilowatt or 180. I think it was, we were so excited about 180 a kilowatt for a PPA. And by the way, the con the customers back then from a customer standpoint, we were setting people up with 15 cent CPAs now in San Diego. Um, you know, I think the average might be up to 19 20 cents somewhere in there. And so like just, I was talking about this with my team the other day at the companies feel at Liberty to continue to raise the prices as long as utility continues to escalate proportion with that. So yeah, it's interesting. The, the whole urgency pitch is, is real. It's not just a sales tool, like go solar now or you're going to probably pay more in the future. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.Speaker 2 (08:16):I know. I love those things. It's like natural urgency that we don't like. We don't have to make it up. It's like stuff is actually happening. Tax credits. It's actually happening a lot of good reasons. I'm not at the school. And so a harness it's a 2017. Do you think, do you think you would have like went on to start harness had solar city not had they not let everyone go. Do you think you would have gone that same path eventually orSpeaker 3 (08:42):Eventually, maybe? Yeah. Um, thing is, I was, I was pretty bought in to the vision. I was, I was a little bit of an Ilan worshiper, not a bad way. I mean, I did have a big blown up picture of him, you know, that Obama poster with the hope, you know, the blue and red and white. Yeah. I made one of Ilan and I put in progress and it was, it was a little foolish I think. But, um, I had that up in the office and uh, yeah, I just, I, I loved his vision. I was at like the Gigafactory grand opening and sparks Nevada. Um, I loved what we were doing. I felt like it was obviously much bigger than us, so everybody feels great about that. But, uh, when it stopped, it was an easy decision to do my own thing. I'd already been knocking doors for 15 years straight with no stops, you know, consistency and practice, um, and you know, running regions and divisions, stuff like that. So I felt like it was a good time, but how do you not fired us? That's a great question. I don't know. I think I was stuck with it for a while and man, it was just, it was, it was cool. Cool.Speaker 2 (09:47):Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Everything happens for a reason, so sure. Yeah. Maybe a good thing. It happened definitely in hindsight. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so like, I mean, I know it's, you know, a lot of challenges going through starting your own company, starting your own brand business, all that. So starting out, I'm sure it wasn't all like sunshine and rainbows and all that. What was, what were some of like the challenges that you had to go through to get, you know, get things rolling with harness?Speaker 3 (10:13):I had the team from solar city pretty much. It was easy because there was no like non-slip stations. They fired us. So we just started, you know, it was no big deal. Uh, so I started with a T a sales team that was nice, but partner wise, um, a lot of companies, you know, instantly become dealers for other installation companies. And that was the, that was the thing. I'm a diligent student of who I'm going to be hopping into business bed with. And I did, I remember to this day I did 17. I interviewed 17 different EPBCS, which are, uh, installation companies went through it, got it on a PowerPoint, did like a, you know, a risk benefit analysis of it. Um, and I even presented it to my team like, Hey guys, this is what I've been going through to make sure we're going the right direction, settled in on one. I won't mention their name, but I sailed in on one and uh, on paper they were the best. And then in reality, they had horrible.Speaker 2 (11:08):Yeah. They leave me alone.Speaker 3 (11:11):Lost me a lot of money. Yeah, exactly. Interestingly enough, I hope I wish that the story was different, but, um, but what it did teach me was, uh, again, you can look good on paper executions, everything when you're in a partnership a lot of times too, and those go south like that, um, you can, you have to cut your losses. There were definitely some losses early on in the business first year, but I also came into the business knowing like all the stories I had read, that's pretty common. It's pretty common in your first year to anything, but in the five-year range. Yeah. It's common to, to have some struggles, have some learning lessons, some big ones. Um, and yeah, it's about it really tests your metal of if you're serious about the business and the long-term aspect of it or not. Yeah,Speaker 2 (11:53):No doubt about that. And so something that, uh, while I'm sure you've struggled with it too, like your teams just, I mean, commissions are so high in solar right now. Um, people are making 10, 15 grand on single deals and stuff, especially out here in California. Like how have you in your teams? I don't know if it's changed as time has gone on, but how, what, what are some things you're doing to like, keep your guys motivated earth stuff that you like passed down to like yourselves managers for our listeners,Speaker 3 (12:21):Uh, considering what they make, is that what you're asking?Speaker 2 (12:23):Yeah. And we'll just, that's one obstacle. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the curse of solar, right? It's like guys make 10 grand on a deal and then three weeks I'll be back next month. Right?Speaker 3 (12:33):Yeah. That is a, that is an interesting question. And it is something of course that we grappled with one way is to constantly have them expanding their idea of themselves. So, uh, it's, there's an income thermometer in every single person. And so once you've reached that thermometer top of a hundred thousand dollars a year, if that's essentially what you think you're worth, or I don't even know if it goes that far in your head, usually you're just like, this is where I'm comfortable. I love freedom and I love taking off and going on experiences. And now I have the freedom to do that. That's all fun and games. And I think everybody deserves to have that time in their life. But if you mentioned this concept of expanding the idea of yourself, often enough in meetings, which I try to, then you can, we actually have a, an archetype I created, uh, so Chad, the cheetah or Chad DRA for the women.Speaker 3 (13:24):Um, and, uh, so there's a, there's a turtle, Tom, the turtle there's Harriet the hair. And then there's Chad that cheetah. So essentially like how fast can you accelerate your progress towards semi-retirement towards being like a, you know, a 10 or a 20 or a hundred door owner properties, et cetera. And, you know, you can follow Dave all or some of these guys in the industry that have made it and have done that. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and it's, it's a reality for us in solar. Like we can get there quick because of the money, for sure. So do you want to just kind of live at this range, which I understand is extremely enticing and fun, but you could also make a million dollars in the next few years and accelerate your progress and, uh, do a whole lot more with your life. Right.Speaker 2 (14:06):Okay. So it sounds like just basically helping them see a higher vision and set bigger goals for themselves. Yeah, I have to. Yeah. That's huge. And so what are some ways that you do that for your reps? Is it like you personally sitting down with them or you like having your managers sat down and I don't know, I'm like quarterlies or anything you guys are doing to help them actually like see those bigger goals and visions for themselves.Speaker 3 (14:27):All of that. We started doing quarterly submits this year, which I don't know why we didn't do them before. They're extremely, they moved the needle a lot because we all get together and have that memory together. This, this quarter we're getting together at Pirate's Cove in Henderson, Nevada overlooking lake Mead. Oh yeah. I've heard about that.Speaker 2 (14:43):Yeah. Our, yeah. Cool. Same thing.Speaker 3 (14:46):This is one of those things that gets tossed around in the industry. So we rented it out for three days and we're, we're taking, uh, our top producers there for the three days. And then we're taking the rest of the company. We'll meet there for like a half day at the summit. That's awesome. And, uh, yeah, getting together and having those memories, having the comradery and the culture come together super important. And during those seasons, of course, we address that topic among many others. That's one needle mover. And the other one is, uh, yeah. Having, uh, you know, we have weekly calls with our leaders of course, and we disseminate what's most important. And there are things that we talk about over and over. Yeah. That's, that's one of them. SoSpeaker 2 (15:25):That's huge. It's communication. Yeah. It's funny. I'm so I'm working down with, uh, uh, Jason, I don't know if you know, Jason newbie squatting down there, but sure. Yeah. He's talking about the Pirate's Cove too. He said, yeah. I think he said Vivian got like banned from it or something likeSpeaker 3 (15:38):That. That doesn't surprise me. No, it doesn't surprise me though.Speaker 2 (15:41):He's like, but I didn't get banned, so yeah. Right. Yeah. There's no longer associated. Yeah.Speaker 3 (15:47):That's funny. I went there with Trevor, uh, Trevor in the top. He he's winning the cup every single year on the alarm side. Uh, I wonder if their group did it cause they're prettySpeaker 2 (15:56):Wild. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I guess that's a story Jason will have to tell black guys. Nice. No, that's cool. And so, yeah, I like the quarterly summits idea. I think that's huge for probably, you know, the culture and things like that. Anything else that you guys are doing just like build the culture of working of like going out every day, if not getting lazy reps, what else are you guys doing?Speaker 3 (16:18):That's a good question. So we have, um, we started a prime program prime, and I think this industry is moving in this direction anyway. Uh, prime is essentially our, uh, senators. So, you know, we have centers in most of our offices. Now it's a very structured program at keeps. Uh, I wouldn't say that keeps people not lazy and they may even contribute to a little bit more, but I don't, I don't think so because it's very dialed in. And of course we have it structured to where we give the most appointments to the highest, highest skilled closers. Um, and so I think that helps a little bit, but also, uh, just the, the, the cadence of accountability. And I don't know we to be Frank, this question is interesting because we, as a company we're, we're not high high, like, um, what's the best way to put this.Speaker 3 (17:09):I'm not super super concerned with being the, like the top sellers in the whole country. Uh, as far as solar sales, I'm concerned with quality mostly. And so I would take honestly, uh, you know, a hundred installs from a group a month versus 300. And I know that sounds rash, but I would take them if they were super quality, uh, you know, the, the sales were done with trust and, uh, and not sloppily and not creating a whole bunch of stress and extra stress for people. Yeah. That's just me. That's the way I want to run the business. Um, one of the things I noticed with publicly traded companies is they're always making decisions based on their stockholders. And, uh, I never wanted to have that again as just a, again, an archetype of what I want, I didn't want, so in this company, we're, um, more principles focused, I think, just trying to always do the right thing. Yeah, yeah,Speaker 2 (17:59):No, that's huge. Yeah. I talk with, you know, some of my friends that own their like EPC stuff like that, I mean, they deal with some of these dealers who it's just like, they're pushing through deals no matter what, on any type of roof, getting guys the same, like roof waivers and stuff, and just throw them panels up there. And it's crazy and, uh, [inaudible] cells, but yeah, it's like 25 years peopleSpeaker 3 (18:20):And that's a long time.Speaker 2 (18:22):It's like, yeah, you throw on these roof waivers and then just put the panels up. Stuff is going wrong. And it's like, what's that? What's that gonna look like down the road for customers and thingsSpeaker 3 (18:30):Like that. It's literally the roof over somebody's head. They worked their entire life to buy their house and make sure it's good. Yeah.Speaker 2 (18:38):So, no, I definitely appreciate that. I think that's the, you know, the only way really to build long-term and make sure you're focusing on your customers and your clients,Speaker 3 (18:49):That brings up a point. I mean, because there's so much money to be made in the solar industry. There's, it's naturally attracting fly by night people. So it's, it's an, it's an unfortunate fact, the industry right now, I feel, uh, needs a huge pivot towards integrity based sales and installs. And I think on the installation side, especially, yeah, there needs to be a big step up in quality and, uh, and customer service towards, you know, uh, sales partners.Speaker 2 (19:18):I know no doubt. And it's like, how many times have you heard it? Um, I hear it all the time where like, oh, what's the reason you haven't gone solar. Oh. Cause our neighbor had a bad experience. So cause their friend know, cause our uncle's roof is leaking. Like how many more customers could we all have? We were just doing quality work and know, you know, not lying to people. So yeah. Ripple effect. So yeah, it's definitely super frustrating, but I know, so yeah. That's good to hear that, um, you know, that you're passing that onto your leaders and it's your company. Cause I think that's really what the industry needs. Um, but yeah. So how many teams do you guys have? So you said you're in, uh, California, Utah. Where else?Speaker 3 (19:56):California, Utah, uh, New Jersey. Um, a little bit in Nevada and a little bit in Florida and then we've got a team in Puerto Rico as well. Okay.Speaker 2 (20:05):That's awesome. How many reps do you have for the whole company? Um,Speaker 3 (20:09):We're around two 50. Okay. All right.Speaker 2 (20:12):Okay. And so what do you see? I don't know. I'm sure some, obviously some teams are better than others. What do you see in your great teams, your best team versus, you know, teams that are struggling, anything you see that's um, is, you know, helping contribute to a good team or is it the teams that are struggling?Speaker 3 (20:27):Yes. I think a good team obviously starts with leaders so you can have a good team without good leaders. It's obviously, uh, a again, a ripple effect. I hate to use that phrase twice, but, um, so if the leaders aren't dialed in, you can, you don't even need to see or meet the leaders. You can tell by the team if you just met the team. But anyway, once that's dialed in and this is part of what the leaders do, having the team have an identity, a name, and even a creed, something that they can coalesce around as a principle or principles that they live by once they have that and identity as a group, then it's about having fun, which is part of culture is kind of what we think about with culture. Like, yeah, you want a yacht somewhere. Um, so having fun and then, uh, getting into flow.Speaker 3 (21:13):I was listening to Aubrey Marcus podcast recently and he had a guy on there it's supposed to be the master of flow. Um, my VP Owen recommends to me anyway. He says there's steps to get into flow. And, and uh, the first one is curiosity. So as if the leaders can create curiosity, uh, with their people somehow, I mean, there's, we can brainstorm around that for a while, but we've, we've had ideas about it and we're looking to increase this constantly because when people are in flow, they don't have to think too much. They just feel, and they're feeling great about what they're doing and, you know, flows. Like we just went surfing this more in the morning and got tossed around in the water, positive ions flowing all around. Yeah. And that was the best way for me to start my morning before I got here.Speaker 3 (21:59):Yeah. So activities like that, if we can, if we can make, um, sales and solar as flowy as, as the way I feel when I'm surfing. Um, then I think we've, we have hit the jackpot. So our best teams, they feel that they don't feel like they're going to work. They feel like they're just in a, in rhythm with a bunch of their friends and they're making a ton of money together, which is awesome. But it's, they want to show up to meetings. Yeah. It's fun. You know, so there's good quality content being shared in the trainings, the bad teams, um, again, bad leaders or it's hard to say bad, uh, ineffective, ineffective leaders. Yeah. Not doing some of these things, no identity. Maybe, maybe they missed on the culture piece. Um, they're not having a much, they're too serious. Not having enough fun. Yeah. Uh, and it's the fun is not just like throwing out incentives and let's meet a Jamba juice it's it's like, right. You know, it's making jokes and having actually vernacular having like inside jokes around your work. Yeah. That kind of, stuff's fun. Yeah. So that's, it's all about. Yeah.Speaker 2 (23:04):That's cool. And yeah. Be a big struggle with like companies I've been a part of, um, I mean that's a big struggle is starting new offices, especially like when it's far away from your home base. Right. Or what have you, it's like sometimes it's tough to keep that same culture and expand and ensure, you know, find good people. Cause yeah. I mean, one of the first companies I was with it's like we expanded to, I think we opened up five offices in a year, but then, um, the next year all of them closed down except for like one, it was just like, because they didn't have like solid leaders in place. And I don't know, it was just tough to grow in too fast. Yeah. Keep it going.Speaker 3 (23:39):So, one thing that we've we've found is to bring like, use your best office and bring your leaders that are struggling or new leaders for sure new leaders bring them into that office and by osmosis the learn and feel the culture. So in fact, we just hired a new Vegas manager today. I just got off a zoom call with him this morning. And uh, he's coming in for two weeks into San Clemente where our top offices, uh, and he'll be learning by osmosis what they're doing. And it's not even just because you could describe to them what to do, but it's, you got to feel it. And you got to meet the people and see how happy they are and talk to them and like all that's going to be super valuable, invaluable. And he'll bring that back to, I guess, have a much better start.Speaker 2 (24:21):Yeah. That's awesome. So that works pretty well. They kind of see what the other people are doing and like, oh, I'm going to go implement that in mySpeaker 3 (24:26):Office. It's pretty basic, but I don't think on a lot of people are doing it.Speaker 2 (24:31):Yeah. I know. We definitely weren't when we were having that problem though. Right. That's that's a great idea. Um, and yeah, like as far as like, uh, your inspiration and everything, what's what are the things that like motivate you to keep it going through all the challenges? And I don't know when their struggles, ups and downs, what are some things that,Speaker 3 (24:51):Um, that's a good question. Multiple things. So I've thought about, what's been driving me since I've been a kid and it's actually hard to put my finger on it. I have some kind of motor in me that won't stop. I feel I've seen the musical Hamilton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just the Disney plus version. Yeah, exactly. Me too. I haven't been to a live show, but you know how there's a song in there that there's, the lyrics are like he's running out of time. He always felt he was running out of time. I've always felt that way. I've always felt like, Hey, this is a very, it's a short life. Um, you gotta, you got your time to make a mark on it. And uh, and so I think that's ever present in my mind. Yeah. And I, that drives me. I mean, I actually just heard, you know, some of the most successful people in the world, art are both running away from something and running towards something.Speaker 3 (25:38):Yeah. There's like two motors driving them. Yeah. And so, uh, I can certainly agree with and relate to the running away from things. Um, you know, came from a divorced family. Dad died when I was young bunch of interesting, you know, storyline items that I could bring up, but running towards something I'm running towards really excellence. I'm trying my best to just be excellent because at some point along the road, the way I got the idea in my head, that being excellent is just so much more fun. And it's a choice. So why not? Like why would you choose not to be excellent? Yeah. I know it's hard and I'm certainly not good at it, uh, all the time. But, uh, I think I've developed that skill over time to just, you know, achieve excellence in certain areas of life. Yeah.Speaker 2 (26:24):Yeah. It's sweet. I like animals. I remember when I first listened to it watched the Disney plus palms and I was like, listen to that, that same song, I think on the way to my, like my deals and stuff like that run out of time. Nice. You know, I guess it's the sweet, but it's true. I mean, especially in solar, that's like a real thing. Cause you don't know, like, I don't know what your thoughts, but it's like solar is probably, probably not going to be, oh yeah. It is profitableSpeaker 3 (26:47):For a long, I mean, yeah. Not, not 10 years from now. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna, it's going to hit critical mass. It's already doing that in certain markets and uh, in California specifically where we are right now, I'm not gonna make a prediction, but you know, we're, we're living on borrowed time for sure. He thinks though. I mean with, yeah, with the, with the level of commissions that we're getting, um, the way and just modeled it off of any other industry in the way it's matured, you know, it's still young. Yeah. But we can model this off of a lot of other industries and you can, you can predict what's going to happen in the next five years. Pretty well. Yeah.Speaker 2 (27:22):Yeah. So yeah. I mean, that's what we're trying to tell our listeners too, is like for those that are listening to this, make sure you understand that and take Dan's words you're living on borrowed time. So push as hard as you can right now be present. That's right. So it's like the days where you're making huge commissions, probably not going to be around forever. So no. So I invest in yourself, invest in coaching and get as good as you can right now. So you can reap the benefits and make as much as possible. Yep. I think is something huge and something I'm sure you, you know, share with your reps. Do ISpeaker 3 (27:53):Bet? Sure. Again, I mean, we've been on the wave of starting out 2012, just nine years ago, making 185 bucks kilowatt or whatever. It was 180 and being so excited and then it just kept going up every single year, but it's just like the real estate market. You can't just keep going up. It's got to crash at some point. Right. So I don't, I'm not saying we're going to crash, but we're certainly going to see corrections in the market. Uh, yeah.Speaker 2 (28:18):It's funny. I feel like the grandpa and solar, I started in Soren 2016. So coming up on five and a half years or so, but yeah, like I don't know all the new reps coming in. They're seeing these seats commissions. I the grandpa. I'm like, oh, back in my day, I was only making two 50. I know it's real.Speaker 3 (28:36):Yeah. And the opportunity arrogance is there. It's like, uh, you know them, like you said, those numbers, you mentioned earlier, they think that's normal. That's not normal. This is not normal. ISpeaker 2 (28:47):Know. So it's like, guys, you got to understand. There's like, solar's the gold rush right now. Go take your pick and hammer and all that. No, get it now andSpeaker 3 (28:56):Get it now and do it. Right. You know, don't ruin it for the rest of us. Don't be that. Don't be that guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Speaker 2 (29:01):For sure. Well, Dan, I know we're going to wrap up soon here, but yeah. Last question or two, I wanted to ask you, like from your reps that are, um, seeing a ton of success out there compared to reps that are struggling and whatnot, what are you seeing? What's separating like the super successful reps versus the ones that are struggling or new teams,Speaker 3 (29:19):The super successful reps have their schedules dialed in. We've got a motto at harness called win the day. You'll see it on our Instagrams. Okay. Um, it's on, well, it's actually in the back of my shirt, right? Is it on the back of my shirt?Speaker 4 (29:32):Not this one.Speaker 3 (29:34):Cool moment. Anyway, you put it on the back of our swag. Uh, when the day came from Owen Santos, RVP of execution, it's a, it's something that he came up with in his own life, basically to win the morning. He wakes up every day at 5:00 AM. I was disciplined guy. I know, um, gets his workout and gets his healthy eating go and gets the surf on surfed with him this morning. Um, basically does more than a lot of people do before 8:00 AM is over. And so winning the day is what our successful reps do. They have a pretty regimented schedule that they stick to live and die by it. And, um, that makes all of their targets time-bound, which has, if you listen to Tony Robbins, you got to have smart goals. S M a R T the T stands for time bound. So, uh, I think that's critical.Speaker 3 (30:20):And then they are students of the game, a students of the game. So they're constantly curious again, way to get into flow state about how to get better and what's happening and, you know, stay on top of their stuff. Yeah. So I mean, those, I could say a lot more than that, but that separates them again. If you want to look at the, the flip side of the coin reps that aren't being successful are treating this, like, you know, they'll come to a meeting and they'll expect the meeting to kind of fill their cup and uh, other people to give them all the knowledge and the skills that they need instead of taking that bowl by their own bull, by the horns, with their own hands and, uh, doing homework, you actually do have to do homework to be great at this. Yeah. So I know one of the best things I can give you is when I first started, I had, uh, an approach that I would record in my phone every day when I was driving out to the area.Speaker 3 (31:10):And I would listen back to it to hear how I sounded to myself and put myself in the customer's shoes. Like how would I react to this guy coming to my door? And I would do that over and over and over and over and over, like, I just became obsessed with like the right words and the right cadence and my meta verbal and nonverbal communication. And it probably took me like two and a half to three months, uh, right when I got into solar to come up with an approach that I felt was hitting on all the psychological principles that you would need to have in place to make sure the customer responded in a certain way. Yeah. And that's, that's what you do. You dial that in so that you're hitting on all those things, the takeaways, the questions, the, the motion creates emotion, all that. Stuff's so critical. ISpeaker 2 (31:49):Love that. Yeah. I can tell, let's go back to your music days. You're probably doing the same stuff and you're practicing piano, right. Recording yourself here and what's going on. That's what I'm saying. It's like so many parallels be doing it. Oh yeah. And top guys are doing it. They're recording themselves in their closes at the doors. It's just like so many things that we didn't think were doing there. Courtney is not going to lie. Right. Like it's like stupid, but I was actually sounded like that actually said that. Yeah. So yeah. So yeah, no, I think that's a huge separator and lots of people I've had on the podcast actually brought that up. That's one of the number one things that reps can do that most people aren't doing it's yeah. I didn't do it for years either, but I'm hearing it so many times. Good recording yourselves, getting feedback and just, you know, analyzing what went wrong and looking in the mirror. Yeah. That's huge. Um, well then we appreciate this secrets you shared with us today and um, yeah, I guess last question or two, I had like, what's been your biggest, uh, I dunno, is there any time at harness that there was like a, a down point or like a big struggle you had at harness and then what, what did you do to get out of it or any, or maybe there hasn't been any, but ISpeaker 3 (32:58):Don't know. Uh, I mean there was the installation misfire in the, in the early year, the most recent one was actually online leads, man, I'll tell you, I can go off for an hour about this. So many companies sprung up during the pandemic saying that they were experts and gurus on lead gen. So many dollars were lost to those companies. Not only by me, but others. Uh, but yeah, that was definitely a struggle. Um, we, we, I think we were shut down for probably, uh, I don't know, maybe a month and a half or two. And then we kind of rebounded with the idea that we were tied to the utility company. And I think everybody in the industry agreed we were essential services, but it's still, you know, um, had our best year during the pandemic, which is cool obviously, but spent a lot of money on online leads that didn't pan out. And again, I could name some companies, I can name some names, but I won't yeah. Blacklisted names. Uh, but I would just caution any, any of the listeners to be very, I would never go with an online lead company that hasn't been vetted by somebody, you know, that can show you proof of the results. Yeah. I just, it's such a trap right now, so yeah.Speaker 2 (34:06):And that's huge. I don't know if you've seen it, but there's like groups on Facebook now, like blacklisted, solar online leads. I follow people just go and follow them. Yeah. Talk crap on all the people that screwed him over.Speaker 3 (34:18):So the names that have scorned me have shown up, so it wasn't just me.Speaker 2 (34:23):Okay. Yeah. No, that's good to observe. I know a lot of people are looking, thinking, oh, online leads. That's the wave. Never going to have to knock the door again,Speaker 3 (34:30):But yeah. Yeah. They think it's a panacea. It's really not. Yeah. It's a supplement. It always should be treated such as such.Speaker 2 (34:37):Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, well Dan, thanks for coming on the show today. Um, where can people find out more about your teams and what you're doing and kind of connect with you on social media and all that? Yeah.Speaker 3 (34:47):Luckily, uh, there's this great guy named Serge. That's been, uh, managing our social media recently and, uh, anyways, you can find us on, you can find it on Instagram at harness your future. Okay. Uh, we also have harness power official. That's kinda more of a customer facing Instagram. Okay. Easiest way to find us. And you can slide into our DMS and have some conversations. Yeah. Okay. I love it.Speaker 2 (35:06):And speaking of surge, I mean, I know surge comes at the price. He's not doing this stuff for free, but, uh, w w what's driving you to kind of invest in like the social media side of things. And what's the goal with that?Speaker 3 (35:17):The goal with that is really because we were a closed loop before, like we were growing mostly organically by referral. And then late last year December-ish of last year, we just decided, you know what, we're going to do some, we're going to make some more efforts to grow. Uh, not just organically, but you know, get ourselves out there a little bit more and show the world what we've got going. We feel like we have something very special here. It's not contrived. It's a special culture of great people that want to be part of this because it's fun. It's special. We create a lot of cool programs that are proprietary to us. So nice. Um, so we wanted to get that out there a little bit more. And Serge is just such a charismatic gentleman came to me. He's like, Hey, I can do all this for you. And he made these massive promises and, uh, now he's, he's delivered quite well so far. Um, yeah, he does a great job, great content, uh, very organized. And he's got some automated systems that are pretty impressive. So yeah.Speaker 2 (36:10):Yeah. Surges them in. He said, we've gotten smiling on the sidelines there. So yeah. Give him a shout out. He's in the room, but no, so yeah, social media definitely important. I know if there's a building brand and also recruiting helps a ton just recruit your ideal salesperson.Speaker 3 (36:26):Yeah. Yeah. And I've been averse to it, to be honest that I haven't been on social media in a while. I took a hiatus for a Facebook for like a, I dunno, a year, year and a half or something. But I think the resistance to social media was like, I just don't want to feel obligated to put myself out there with something contrived. I want it to feel authentic. And I want to feel like, I don't know that we're not trying to like manipulate people into anything. So luckily surges give me free reign on what to put on there. Um, and has worked with me on, um, the way I want to do things, which is, has been awesome. Yeah.Speaker 2 (36:59):That's awesome. Cool. Well, Dan, appreciate you coming on. And before we wrap up here, any final, I guess, words of advice you want to share with our solar printers with RS or guys that are listening on the show here today? Yeah.Speaker 3 (37:10):I would just say something I say often there's magic in the mundane, which is, goes back full circle to what we talk about. Like if you, if you practice piano for hours on end or, you know, parlayed any kind of musical talent or any other kind of rhythm, maybe from athletics, when you were young into knocking doors, you know, that the magic is in doing the same mundane things over and over and finding the magic, which is the income, the success, the, uh, the leadership, eventually all the things that you kind of want and are going after it's it's in the consistent daily. Yes.Speaker 2 (37:44):Yeah. Love that. And yeah, I'm sure you read the two book compound effect slight edge, but yeah. It's just like, if you haven't read those for our listeners, go read those for sure. I mean, that's yeah. That's the key to success. Most people aren't willing to do the little things everyday over a long period of time. Anyone can do it for one or two days, but the guys that are having success in this industry, or really anything they're doing the little things that no one wants to do for, you know, day after day afterSpeaker 3 (38:09):Day formula was written long ago. I just gotta follow it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.Speaker 2 (38:14):Love it. Dan will links were coming on the show. Guys, go give Dan a shout out soon, a message a DM on Instagram, Facebook, let them know you appreciate him on the show. And Dan, thanks again. We'll talk to you soon. Cool. Thanks Taylor. Appreciate it.Speaker 5 (38:28):Hey, Solarpreneurs quick question. What if you could surround yourself with the industry's top performing sales pros, marketers, and CEOs, and learn from their experience and wisdom in less than 20 minutes a day. For the last three years, I've been placed in the fortunate position to interview dozens of elite level solar professionals and learn exactly what they do behind closed doors to build their solar careers to an all-star level. That's why I want to make a truly special announcement about the new learning community, exclusively for solar professionals to learn, compete, and win with top performers in the industry. And it's called the Solciety, this learning community with designed from the ground up to level the playing field to give solar pros access to proven members who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry. Brightest minds four, are you ready for it? Less than $3 and 45 cents a day currently Solciety is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to Solciety.co To learn more and join the learning experience. Now this is exclusively for Solarpreneur listeners. So be sure to go to solciety.co And join. We'll see you on the inside. 

Tune in now and don't forget to sign up for www.solciety.co!Speaker 1 (00:03):Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong and I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in a year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bringing the top solar dogs, the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals. What is a Solarpreneur you might ask a Solarpreneur is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.Speaker 2 (00:41):What's going on. Solarpreneurs. We are back with another episode and I'm excited today because we are in the studio with Mr. Dan Dunn. What's going on, Dan? Thanks for coming on the show. You bet.Speaker 3 (00:52):Good. He could to be here. Okay. Well, you'reSpeaker 2 (00:56):Hearing me too. Yeah, it's, it's fun. We're hearing a Newport beach, made the drive up here from San Diego and, um, we're doing some video content too. So excited about that. So Dan, you want to tell us a little bit how you got like in the solar space and your background, where you came from and everything.Speaker 3 (01:14):Sure. Yeah. I should have this down to an elevator pitch by now. Um, I was born in Illinois in the Midwest. I was then transplanted, California. So I clean California is my place of growth, I guess kind of sounds a little cooler. Um, and then, uh, went to yeah, went to college in Utah. I then, uh, and I majored in music in English. We just talked about that before this podcast started. Yeah. Um, yeah. I love music nerd and music nerd. That's right. And actually, uh, the movie pitch. Perfect. I was actually telling, um, this guy to the, to the left ear off, off camera earlier that, uh, my wife and I met through similar circumstances as Anna Kendrick and the guy. I don't remember his name anyway. She was in a female acapella group. I was in vocal point male acapella group kind of came together like jets and sharks and west side story anyway. Um, so yeah, met my wife there been married almost 16 years. Uh, live in Southern California. I love this place. Feels like home will never leave. And, uh, old harness. I started the harness brands in 2017, so we're almost five years old next year. Awesome. Um, and then have a production company in the music space called prosody music. Okay. That's me in a nutshell.Speaker 2 (02:31):That's awesome. I love hearing guys that are like, you know, like music nerds and stuff like that. Cause I was just telling you, I was a music major myself in college, studied drums, percussion. That was the dream I was all about, you know, just graduating and being a music teacher, making my 30, 40 grand a year. And I was like, this is it. I'm going to love it. That's the dream. And then yeah, came out. Yeah. Came out, made that, you know, like in the summer or whatever. And I'm like, it's a little bit longer.Speaker 3 (03:02):Right. I can still picture, Hey, imagine dragons. When they have their live shows, they need some good drummers up there. Right. Have you ever been to one of those?Speaker 2 (03:09):Uh, I haven't been to their show, but I haven't been to, I don't know. Been to all its other concerts. Yeah. Same with maybe they'll listen to this podcast. If they're listening, give me a call and I'll beSpeaker 3 (03:19):In the drummer. We've got a table right here. He can start anyway.Speaker 2 (03:22):Let's do it. But yeah, what I wanted to ask you, Dan, I mean being like music, English and all that. Yeah. Do you feel like, I mean, I don't think there's a ton of us that did music before, um, you know, solar, but the few that I have met that have, I feel like, I dunno, it's helped them in a way. Maybe like creativity. Do you feel like music has helped you in business or in any, any aspects of what you're doing now?Speaker 3 (03:45):Absolutely. So I mean, scientific studies have shown if you put your kids in piano lessons early on, they'll connect certain parts of their brain and think more critically. And I'm not trying to pump myself up at all. I mean, don't feel deficient out there guys, if you didn't get piano lessons, it's not your fault, but it does help. Uh, yeah. You looking at problems from multiple sides of the spectrum. And so when your brain makes those connections, you have kind of that openness to multiple solutions and seeing both sides of an argument, uh, really, really helps in problem solving interpersonal relationships, um, leading. It helps them and I think all aspects of business to me. Yeah.Speaker 2 (04:23):That's awesome. Leading. Why do you say that?Speaker 3 (04:27):Well, because as a leader, you're going to come across the fires. We have to put out constantly. Right. And so to put out fires, you could, you could throw a huge bucket of water on it and say, it's good. Or you could kind of massage it and come at it strategically and see if there's, you know, two or three different ways to go at it. And which one's best consider the consequences. Being able to look at that, that cube from all sides, I think will, uh, it has paid dividends. SoSpeaker 2 (04:53):Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. No, and I always compare it to just like, I'm sure, you know, music where you like a specific instrument. Are we just voice Canon boys in a way? Okay. Yeah, for me, it's like, I don't know about you, but all those hours you put in practicing. Yeah. That's true. That's something that I feel like it's like, I was, I was no way like a natural sales guy or whatever. And I still, like, I'm not like the top guy, but because of all those hours that I put in not being the top drummer or whatever, I'm like, okay, why don't I just use that same, you know, method of getting better at cells all the hours I put in practicing the guys are doing it. You know,Speaker 3 (05:27):I just made that connection. Now. That's crazy. I used to like hold myself up in a practice room for four to six hours a day just going at the keys. That's and then of course that's what I did on the doors too. That's weird. Never made that connection. Yeah.Speaker 2 (05:41):So cool. I think it's super power for sure. I agree. Well, you know, can go with a distance like that, but cool, man. So tell us Dan, how, uh, so harness you started that in 2017. Yep. Okay. And were you, uh, just working on a sales team before, how did you transition to like starting your own company and everything?Speaker 3 (06:00):Yeah. So back in 2002, I started doing pest control for a couple of summers. Then I did alarms for eight and a half years, mostly summers, but also some year round programs built up, you know, deems and regions during that time. And then transition to solar in 2012 with vivant, when they started their San Diego office, I was in that original office that was full of all kinds of cool guys. We were, we were a cool crew. Anybody that's listening? I don't know if you are, but it was, it was cool. Everybody from that office branched out and either became at least DMS, mostly regional VPs, owner, company owners, et cetera. Um, and so, uh, helped them went up to orange county and then, uh, left for solar city Tesla. And uh, when Elan fired us all in 2017, best thing that happened to me. Um, that's when I started harness because I, I felt like I had learned enough. Yeah.Speaker 2 (06:53):Okay. Yeah. A lot of good. A lot of superstars came from that. Yeah. Including, uh, you know, Taylor McCarthy. We were just talking about that a lot too. That's cool. We've been solar though. Were you, uh, do you know Rob Brian river? Yeah, for sure. With CLL, we used to call them the bull. The bull. Was he back there in 2012 with you guys? He was, yeah, he was in that office. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. So he, uh, yeah. New power that company he used to work for, he went on to be like VP of sales for that company. Yeah. Yeah. He was my boss for a long time over there, but I know that's cool. Yeah. A lot of superstars came from that and um, I know it was like rough, at least according to Rob, he said it's pretty rough. In the beginning, you have water issues with stuff. Well, we feltSpeaker 3 (07:34):So good about selling a 15 cent PPA for like $200 a kilowatt or 180. I think it was, we were so excited about 180 a kilowatt for a PPA. And by the way, the con the customers back then from a customer standpoint, we were setting people up with 15 cent CPAs now in San Diego. Um, you know, I think the average might be up to 19 20 cents somewhere in there. And so like just, I was talking about this with my team the other day at the companies feel at Liberty to continue to raise the prices as long as utility continues to escalate proportion with that. So yeah, it's interesting. The, the whole urgency pitch is, is real. It's not just a sales tool, like go solar now or you're going to probably pay more in the future. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.Speaker 2 (08:16):I know. I love those things. It's like natural urgency that we don't like. We don't have to make it up. It's like stuff is actually happening. Tax credits. It's actually happening a lot of good reasons. I'm not at the school. And so a harness it's a 2017. Do you think, do you think you would have like went on to start harness had solar city not had they not let everyone go. Do you think you would have gone that same path eventually orSpeaker 3 (08:42):Eventually, maybe? Yeah. Um, thing is, I was, I was pretty bought in to the vision. I was, I was a little bit of an Ilan worshiper, not a bad way. I mean, I did have a big blown up picture of him, you know, that Obama poster with the hope, you know, the blue and red and white. Yeah. I made one of Ilan and I put in progress and it was, it was a little foolish I think. But, um, I had that up in the office and uh, yeah, I just, I, I loved his vision. I was at like the Gigafactory grand opening and sparks Nevada. Um, I loved what we were doing. I felt like it was obviously much bigger than us, so everybody feels great about that. But, uh, when it stopped, it was an easy decision to do my own thing. I'd already been knocking doors for 15 years straight with no stops, you know, consistency and practice, um, and you know, running regions and divisions, stuff like that. So I felt like it was a good time, but how do you not fired us? That's a great question. I don't know. I think I was stuck with it for a while and man, it was just, it was, it was cool. Cool.Speaker 2 (09:47):Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Everything happens for a reason, so sure. Yeah. Maybe a good thing. It happened definitely in hindsight. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so like, I mean, I know it's, you know, a lot of challenges going through starting your own company, starting your own brand business, all that. So starting out, I'm sure it wasn't all like sunshine and rainbows and all that. What was, what were some of like the challenges that you had to go through to get, you know, get things rolling with harness?Speaker 3 (10:13):I had the team from solar city pretty much. It was easy because there was no like non-slip stations. They fired us. So we just started, you know, it was no big deal. Uh, so I started with a T a sales team that was nice, but partner wise, um, a lot of companies, you know, instantly become dealers for other installation companies. And that was the, that was the thing. I'm a diligent student of who I'm going to be hopping into business bed with. And I did, I remember to this day I did 17. I interviewed 17 different EPBCS, which are, uh, installation companies went through it, got it on a PowerPoint, did like a, you know, a risk benefit analysis of it. Um, and I even presented it to my team like, Hey guys, this is what I've been going through to make sure we're going the right direction, settled in on one. I won't mention their name, but I sailed in on one and uh, on paper they were the best. And then in reality, they had horrible.Speaker 2 (11:08):Yeah. They leave me alone.Speaker 3 (11:11):Lost me a lot of money. Yeah, exactly. Interestingly enough, I hope I wish that the story was different, but, um, but what it did teach me was, uh, again, you can look good on paper executions, everything when you're in a partnership a lot of times too, and those go south like that, um, you can, you have to cut your losses. There were definitely some losses early on in the business first year, but I also came into the business knowing like all the stories I had read, that's pretty common. It's pretty common in your first year to anything, but in the five-year range. Yeah. It's common to, to have some struggles, have some learning lessons, some big ones. Um, and yeah, it's about it really tests your metal of if you're serious about the business and the long-term aspect of it or not. Yeah,Speaker 2 (11:53):No doubt about that. And so something that, uh, while I'm sure you've struggled with it too, like your teams just, I mean, commissions are so high in solar right now. Um, people are making 10, 15 grand on single deals and stuff, especially out here in California. Like how have you in your teams? I don't know if it's changed as time has gone on, but how, what, what are some things you're doing to like, keep your guys motivated earth stuff that you like passed down to like yourselves managers for our listeners,Speaker 3 (12:21):Uh, considering what they make, is that what you're asking?Speaker 2 (12:23):Yeah. And we'll just, that's one obstacle. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the curse of solar, right? It's like guys make 10 grand on a deal and then three weeks I'll be back next month. Right?Speaker 3 (12:33):Yeah. That is a, that is an interesting question. And it is something of course that we grappled with one way is to constantly have them expanding their idea of themselves. So, uh, it's, there's an income thermometer in every single person. And so once you've reached that thermometer top of a hundred thousand dollars a year, if that's essentially what you think you're worth, or I don't even know if it goes that far in your head, usually you're just like, this is where I'm comfortable. I love freedom and I love taking off and going on experiences. And now I have the freedom to do that. That's all fun and games. And I think everybody deserves to have that time in their life. But if you mentioned this concept of expanding the idea of yourself, often enough in meetings, which I try to, then you can, we actually have a, an archetype I created, uh, so Chad, the cheetah or Chad DRA for the women.Speaker 3 (13:24):Um, and, uh, so there's a, there's a turtle, Tom, the turtle there's Harriet the hair. And then there's Chad that cheetah. So essentially like how fast can you accelerate your progress towards semi-retirement towards being like a, you know, a 10 or a 20 or a hundred door owner properties, et cetera. And, you know, you can follow Dave all or some of these guys in the industry that have made it and have done that. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and it's, it's a reality for us in solar. Like we can get there quick because of the money, for sure. So do you want to just kind of live at this range, which I understand is extremely enticing and fun, but you could also make a million dollars in the next few years and accelerate your progress and, uh, do a whole lot more with your life. Right.Speaker 2 (14:06):Okay. So it sounds like just basically helping them see a higher vision and set bigger goals for themselves. Yeah, I have to. Yeah. That's huge. And so what are some ways that you do that for your reps? Is it like you personally sitting down with them or you like having your managers sat down and I don't know, I'm like quarterlies or anything you guys are doing to help them actually like see those bigger goals and visions for themselves.Speaker 3 (14:27):All of that. We started doing quarterly submits this year, which I don't know why we didn't do them before. They're extremely, they moved the needle a lot because we all get together and have that memory together. This, this quarter we're getting together at Pirate's Cove in Henderson, Nevada overlooking lake Mead. Oh yeah. I've heard about that.Speaker 2 (14:43):Yeah. Our, yeah. Cool. Same thing.Speaker 3 (14:46):This is one of those things that gets tossed around in the industry. So we rented it out for three days and we're, we're taking, uh, our top producers there for the three days. And then we're taking the rest of the company. We'll meet there for like a half day at the summit. That's awesome. And, uh, yeah, getting together and having those memories, having the comradery and the culture come together super important. And during those seasons, of course, we address that topic among many others. That's one needle mover. And the other one is, uh, yeah. Having, uh, you know, we have weekly calls with our leaders of course, and we disseminate what's most important. And there are things that we talk about over and over. Yeah. That's, that's one of them. SoSpeaker 2 (15:25):That's huge. It's communication. Yeah. It's funny. I'm so I'm working down with, uh, uh, Jason, I don't know if you know, Jason newbie squatting down there, but sure. Yeah. He's talking about the Pirate's Cove too. He said, yeah. I think he said Vivian got like banned from it or something likeSpeaker 3 (15:38):That. That doesn't surprise me. No, it doesn't surprise me though.Speaker 2 (15:41):He's like, but I didn't get banned, so yeah. Right. Yeah. There's no longer associated. Yeah.Speaker 3 (15:47):That's funny. I went there with Trevor, uh, Trevor in the top. He he's winning the cup every single year on the alarm side. Uh, I wonder if their group did it cause they're prettySpeaker 2 (15:56):Wild. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I guess that's a story Jason will have to tell black guys. Nice. No, that's cool. And so, yeah, I like the quarterly summits idea. I think that's huge for probably, you know, the culture and things like that. Anything else that you guys are doing just like build the culture of working of like going out every day, if not getting lazy reps, what else are you guys doing?Speaker 3 (16:18):That's a good question. So we have, um, we started a prime program prime, and I think this industry is moving in this direction anyway. Uh, prime is essentially our, uh, senators. So, you know, we have centers in most of our offices. Now it's a very structured program at keeps. Uh, I wouldn't say that keeps people not lazy and they may even contribute to a little bit more, but I don't, I don't think so because it's very dialed in. And of course we have it structured to where we give the most appointments to the highest, highest skilled closers. Um, and so I think that helps a little bit, but also, uh, just the, the, the cadence of accountability. And I don't know we to be Frank, this question is interesting because we, as a company we're, we're not high high, like, um, what's the best way to put this.Speaker 3 (17:09):I'm not super super concerned with being the, like the top sellers in the whole country. Uh, as far as solar sales, I'm concerned with quality mostly. And so I would take honestly, uh, you know, a hundred installs from a group a month versus 300. And I know that sounds rash, but I would take them if they were super quality, uh, you know, the, the sales were done with trust and, uh, and not sloppily and not creating a whole bunch of stress and extra stress for people. Yeah. That's just me. That's the way I want to run the business. Um, one of the things I noticed with publicly traded companies is they're always making decisions based on their stockholders. And, uh, I never wanted to have that again as just a, again, an archetype of what I want, I didn't want, so in this company, we're, um, more principles focused, I think, just trying to always do the right thing. Yeah, yeah,Speaker 2 (17:59):No, that's huge. Yeah. I talk with, you know, some of my friends that own their like EPC stuff like that, I mean, they deal with some of these dealers who it's just like, they're pushing through deals no matter what, on any type of roof, getting guys the same, like roof waivers and stuff, and just throw them panels up there. And it's crazy and, uh, [inaudible] cells, but yeah, it's like 25 years peopleSpeaker 3 (18:20):And that's a long time.Speaker 2 (18:22):It's like, yeah, you throw on these roof waivers and then just put the panels up. Stuff is going wrong. And it's like, what's that? What's that gonna look like down the road for customers and thingsSpeaker 3 (18:30):Like that. It's literally the roof over somebody's head. They worked their entire life to buy their house and make sure it's good. Yeah.Speaker 2 (18:38):So, no, I definitely appreciate that. I think that's the, you know, the only way really to build long-term and make sure you're focusing on your customers and your clients,Speaker 3 (18:49):That brings up a point. I mean, because there's so much money to be made in the solar industry. There's, it's naturally attracting fly by night people. So it's, it's an, it's an unfortunate fact, the industry right now, I feel, uh, needs a huge pivot towards integrity based sales and installs. And I think on the installation side, especially, yeah, there needs to be a big step up in quality and, uh, and customer service towards, you know, uh, sales partners.Speaker 2 (19:18):I know no doubt. And it's like, how many times have you heard it? Um, I hear it all the time where like, oh, what's the reason you haven't gone solar. Oh. Cause our neighbor had a bad experience. So cause their friend know, cause our uncle's roof is leaking. Like how many more customers could we all have? We were just doing quality work and know, you know, not lying to people. So yeah. Ripple effect. So yeah, it's definitely super frustrating, but I know, so yeah. That's good to hear that, um, you know, that you're passing that onto your leaders and it's your company. Cause I think that's really what the industry needs. Um, but yeah. So how many teams do you guys have? So you said you're in, uh, California, Utah. Where else?Speaker 3 (19:56):California, Utah, uh, New Jersey. Um, a little bit in Nevada and a little bit in Florida and then we've got a team in Puerto Rico as well. Okay.Speaker 2 (20:05):That's awesome. How many reps do you have for the whole company? Um,Speaker 3 (20:09):We're around two 50. Okay. All right.Speaker 2 (20:12):Okay. And so what do you see? I don't know. I'm sure some, obviously some teams are better than others. What do you see in your great teams, your best team versus, you know, teams that are struggling, anything you see that's um, is, you know, helping contribute to a good team or is it the teams that are struggling?Speaker 3 (20:27):Yes. I think a good team obviously starts with leaders so you can have a good team without good leaders. It's obviously, uh, a again, a ripple effect. I hate to use that phrase twice, but, um, so if the leaders aren't dialed in, you can, you don't even need to see or meet the leaders. You can tell by the team if you just met the team. But anyway, once that's dialed in and this is part of what the leaders do, having the team have an identity, a name, and even a creed, something that they can coalesce around as a principle or principles that they live by once they have that and identity as a group, then it's about having fun, which is part of culture is kind of what we think about with culture. Like, yeah, you want a yacht somewhere. Um, so having fun and then, uh, getting into flow.Speaker 3 (21:13):I was listening to Aubrey Marcus podcast recently and he had a guy on there it's supposed to be the master of flow. Um, my VP Owen recommends to me anyway. He says there's steps to get into flow. And, and uh, the first one is curiosity. So as if the leaders can create curiosity, uh, with their people somehow, I mean, there's, we can brainstorm around that for a while, but we've, we've had ideas about it and we're looking to increase this constantly because when people are in flow, they don't have to think too much. They just feel, and they're feeling great about what they're doing and, you know, flows. Like we just went surfing this more in the morning and got tossed around in the water, positive ions flowing all around. Yeah. And that was the best way for me to start my morning before I got here.Speaker 3 (21:59):Yeah. So activities like that, if we can, if we can make, um, sales and solar as flowy as, as the way I feel when I'm surfing. Um, then I think we've, we have hit the jackpot. So our best teams, they feel that they don't feel like they're going to work. They feel like they're just in a, in rhythm with a bunch of their friends and they're making a ton of money together, which is awesome. But it's, they want to show up to meetings. Yeah. It's fun. You know, so there's good quality content being shared in the trainings, the bad teams, um, again, bad leaders or it's hard to say bad, uh, ineffective, ineffective leaders. Yeah. Not doing some of these things, no identity. Maybe, maybe they missed on the culture piece. Um, they're not having a much, they're too serious. Not having enough fun. Yeah. Uh, and it's the fun is not just like throwing out incentives and let's meet a Jamba juice it's it's like, right. You know, it's making jokes and having actually vernacular having like inside jokes around your work. Yeah. That kind of, stuff's fun. Yeah. So that's, it's all about. Yeah.Speaker 2 (23:04):That's cool. And yeah. Be a big struggle with like companies I've been a part of, um, I mean that's a big struggle is starting new offices, especially like when it's far away from your home base. Right. Or what have you, it's like sometimes it's tough to keep that same culture and expand and ensure, you know, find good people. Cause yeah. I mean, one of the first companies I was with it's like we expanded to, I think we opened up five offices in a year, but then, um, the next year all of them closed down except for like one, it was just like, because they didn't have like solid leaders in place. And I don't know, it was just tough to grow in too fast. Yeah. Keep it going.Speaker 3 (23:39):So, one thing that we've we've found is to bring like, use your best office and bring your leaders that are struggling or new leaders for sure new leaders bring them into that office and by osmosis the learn and feel the culture. So in fact, we just hired a new Vegas manager today. I just got off a zoom call with him this morning. And uh, he's coming in for two weeks into San Clemente where our top offices, uh, and he'll be learning by osmosis what they're doing. And it's not even just because you could describe to them what to do, but it's, you got to feel it. And you got to meet the people and see how happy they are and talk to them and like all that's going to be super valuable, invaluable. And he'll bring that back to, I guess, have a much better start.Speaker 2 (24:21):Yeah. That's awesome. So that works pretty well. They kind of see what the other people are doing and like, oh, I'm going to go implement that in mySpeaker 3 (24:26):Office. It's pretty basic, but I don't think on a lot of people are doing it.Speaker 2 (24:31):Yeah. I know. We definitely weren't when we were having that problem though. Right. That's that's a great idea. Um, and yeah, like as far as like, uh, your inspiration and everything, what's what are the things that like motivate you to keep it going through all the challenges? And I don't know when their struggles, ups and downs, what are some things that,Speaker 3 (24:51):Um, that's a good question. Multiple things. So I've thought about, what's been driving me since I've been a kid and it's actually hard to put my finger on it. I have some kind of motor in me that won't stop. I feel I've seen the musical Hamilton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just the Disney plus version. Yeah, exactly. Me too. I haven't been to a live show, but you know how there's a song in there that there's, the lyrics are like he's running out of time. He always felt he was running out of time. I've always felt that way. I've always felt like, Hey, this is a very, it's a short life. Um, you gotta, you got your time to make a mark on it. And uh, and so I think that's ever present in my mind. Yeah. And I, that drives me. I mean, I actually just heard, you know, some of the most successful people in the world, art are both running away from something and running towards something.Speaker 3 (25:38):Yeah. There's like two motors driving them. Yeah. And so, uh, I can certainly agree with and relate to the running away from things. Um, you know, came from a divorced family. Dad died when I was young bunch of interesting, you know, storyline items that I could bring up, but running towards something I'm running towards really excellence. I'm trying my best to just be excellent because at some point along the road, the way I got the idea in my head, that being excellent is just so much more fun. And it's a choice. So why not? Like why would you choose not to be excellent? Yeah. I know it's hard and I'm certainly not good at it, uh, all the time. But, uh, I think I've developed that skill over time to just, you know, achieve excellence in certain areas of life. Yeah.Speaker 2 (26:24):Yeah. It's sweet. I like animals. I remember when I first listened to it watched the Disney plus palms and I was like, listen to that, that same song, I think on the way to my, like my deals and stuff like that run out of time. Nice. You know, I guess it's the sweet, but it's true. I mean, especially in solar, that's like a real thing. Cause you don't know, like, I don't know what your thoughts, but it's like solar is probably, probably not going to be, oh yeah. It is profitableSpeaker 3 (26:47):For a long, I mean, yeah. Not, not 10 years from now. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna, it's going to hit critical mass. It's already doing that in certain markets and uh, in California specifically where we are right now, I'm not gonna make a prediction, but you know, we're, we're living on borrowed time for sure. He thinks though. I mean with, yeah, with the, with the level of commissions that we're getting, um, the way and just modeled it off of any other industry in the way it's matured, you know, it's still young. Yeah. But we can model this off of a lot of other industries and you can, you can predict what's going to happen in the next five years. Pretty well. Yeah.Speaker 2 (27:22):Yeah. So yeah. I mean, that's what we're trying to tell our listeners too, is like for those that are listening to this, make sure you understand that and take Dan's words you're living on borrowed time. So push as hard as you can right now be present. That's right. So it's like the days where you're making huge commissions, probably not going to be around forever. So no. So I invest in yourself, invest in coaching and get as good as you can right now. So you can reap the benefits and make as much as possible. Yep. I think is something huge and something I'm sure you, you know, share with your reps. Do ISpeaker 3 (27:53):Bet? Sure. Again, I mean, we've been on the wave of starting out 2012, just nine years ago, making 185 bucks kilowatt or whatever. It was 180 and being so excited and then it just kept going up every single year, but it's just like the real estate market. You can't just keep going up. It's got to crash at some point. Right. So I don't, I'm not saying we're going to crash, but we're certainly going to see corrections in the market. Uh, yeah.Speaker 2 (28:18):It's funny. I feel like the grandpa and solar, I started in Soren 2016. So coming up on five and a half years or so, but yeah, like I don't know all the new reps coming in. They're seeing these seats commissions. I the grandpa. I'm like, oh, back in my day, I was only making two 50. I know it's real.Speaker 3 (28:36):Yeah. And the opportunity arrogance is there. It's like, uh, you know them, like you said, those numbers, you mentioned earlier, they think that's normal. That's not normal. This is not normal. ISpeaker 2 (28:47):Know. So it's like, guys, you got to understand. There's like, solar's the gold rush right now. Go take your pick and hammer and all that. No, get it now andSpeaker 3 (28:56):Get it now and do it. Right. You know, don't ruin it for the rest of us. Don't be that. Don't be that guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Speaker 2 (29:01):For sure. Well, Dan, I know we're going to wrap up soon here, but yeah. Last question or two, I wanted to ask you, like from your reps that are, um, seeing a ton of success out there compared to reps that are struggling and whatnot, what are you seeing? What's separating like the super successful reps versus the ones that are struggling or new teams,Speaker 3 (29:19):The super successful reps have their schedules dialed in. We've got a motto at harness called win the day. You'll see it on our Instagrams. Okay. Um, it's on, well, it's actually in the back of my shirt, right? Is it on the back of my shirt?Speaker 4 (29:32):Not this one.Speaker 3 (29:34):Cool moment. Anyway, you put it on the back of our swag. Uh, when the day came from Owen Santos, RVP of execution, it's a, it's something that he came up with in his own life, basically to win the morning. He wakes up every day at 5:00 AM. I was disciplined guy. I know, um, gets his workout and gets his healthy eating go and gets the surf on surfed with him this morning. Um, basically does more than a lot of people do before 8:00 AM is over. And so winning the day is what our successful reps do. They have a pretty regimented schedule that they stick to live and die by it. And, um, that makes all of their targets time-bound, which has, if you listen to Tony Robbins, you got to have smart goals. S M a R T the T stands for time bound. So, uh, I think that's critical.Speaker 3 (30:20):And then they are students of the game, a students of the game. So they're constantly curious again, way to get into flow state about how to get better and what's happening and, you know, stay on top of their stuff. Yeah. So I mean, those, I could say a lot more than that, but that separates them again. If you want to look at the, the flip side of the coin reps that aren't being successful are treating this, like, you know, they'll come to a meeting and they'll expect the meeting to kind of fill their cup and uh, other people to give them all the knowledge and the skills that they need instead of taking that bowl by their own bull, by the horns, with their own hands and, uh, doing homework, you actually do have to do homework to be great at this. Yeah. So I know one of the best things I can give you is when I first started, I had, uh, an approach that I would record in my phone every day when I was driving out to the area.Speaker 3 (31:10):And I would listen back to it to hear how I sounded to myself and put myself in the customer's shoes. Like how would I react to this guy coming to my door? And I would do that over and over and over and over and over, like, I just became obsessed with like the right words and the right cadence and my meta verbal and nonverbal communication. And it probably took me like two and a half to three months, uh, right when I got into solar to come up with an approach that I felt was hitting on all the psychological principles that you would need to have in place to make sure the customer responded in a certain way. Yeah. And that's, that's what you do. You dial that in so that you're hitting on all those things, the takeaways, the questions, the, the motion creates emotion, all that. Stuff's so critical. ISpeaker 2 (31:49):Love that. Yeah. I can tell, let's go back to your music days. You're probably doing the same stuff and you're practicing piano, right. Recording yourself here and what's going on. That's what I'm saying. It's like so many parallels be doing it. Oh yeah. And top guys are doing it. They're recording themselves in their closes at the doors. It's just like so many things that we didn't think were doing there. Courtney is not going to lie. Right. Like it's like stupid, but I was actually sounded like that actually said that. Yeah. So yeah. So yeah, no, I think that's a huge separator and lots of people I've had on the podcast actually brought that up. That's one of the number one things that reps can do that most people aren't doing it's yeah. I didn't do it for years either, but I'm hearing it so many times. Good recording yourselves, getting feedback and just, you know, analyzing what went wrong and looking in the mirror. Yeah. That's huge. Um, well then we appreciate this secrets you shared with us today and um, yeah, I guess last question or two, I had like, what's been your biggest, uh, I dunno, is there any time at harness that there was like a, a down point or like a big struggle you had at harness and then what, what did you do to get out of it or any, or maybe there hasn't been any, but ISpeaker 3 (32:58):Don't know. Uh, I mean there was the installation misfire in the, in the early year, the most recent one was actually online leads, man, I'll tell you, I can go off for an hour about this. So many companies sprung up during the pandemic saying that they were experts and gurus on lead gen. So many dollars were lost to those companies. Not only by me, but others. Uh, but yeah, that was definitely a struggle. Um, we, we, I think we were shut down for probably, uh, I don't know, maybe a month and a half or two. And then we kind of rebounded with the idea that we were tied to the utility company. And I think everybody in the industry agreed we were essential services, but it's still, you know, um, had our best year during the pandemic, which is cool obviously, but spent a lot of money on online leads that didn't pan out. And again, I could name some companies, I can name some names, but I won't yeah. Blacklisted names. Uh, but I would just caution any, any of the listeners to be very, I would never go with an online lead company that hasn't been vetted by somebody, you know, that can show you proof of the results. Yeah. I just, it's such a trap right now, so yeah.Speaker 2 (34:06):And that's huge. I don't know if you've seen it, but there's like groups on Facebook now, like blacklisted, solar online leads. I follow people just go and follow them. Yeah. Talk crap on all the people that screwed him over.Speaker 3 (34:18):So the names that have scorned me have shown up, so it wasn't just me.Speaker 2 (34:23):Okay. Yeah. No, that's good to observe. I know a lot of people are looking, thinking, oh, online leads. That's the wave. Never going to have to knock the door again,Speaker 3 (34:30):But yeah. Yeah. They think it's a panacea. It's really not. Yeah. It's a supplement. It always should be treated such as such.Speaker 2 (34:37):Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, well Dan, thanks for coming on the show today. Um, where can people find out more about your teams and what you're doing and kind of connect with you on social media and all that? Yeah.Speaker 3 (34:47):Luckily, uh, there's this great guy named Serge. That's been, uh, managing our social media recently and, uh, anyways, you can find us on, you can find it on Instagram at harness your future. Okay. Uh, we also have harness power official. That's kinda more of a customer facing Instagram. Okay. Easiest way to find us. And you can slide into our DMS and have some conversations. Yeah. Okay. I love it.Speaker 2 (35:06):And speaking of surge, I mean, I know surge comes at the price. He's not doing this stuff for free, but, uh, w w what's driving you to kind of invest in like the social media side of things. And what's the goal with that?Speaker 3 (35:17):The goal with that is really because we were a closed loop before, like we were growing mostly organically by referral. And then late last year December-ish of last year, we just decided, you know what, we're going to do some, we're going to make some more efforts to grow. Uh, not just organically, but you know, get ourselves out there a little bit more and show the world what we've got going. We feel like we have something very special here. It's not contrived. It's a special culture of great people that want to be part of this because it's fun. It's special. We create a lot of cool programs that are proprietary to us. So nice. Um, so we wanted to get that out there a little bit more. And Serge is just such a charismatic gentleman came to me. He's like, Hey, I can do all this for you. And he made these massive promises and, uh, now he's, he's delivered quite well so far. Um, yeah, he does a great job, great content, uh, very organized. And he's got some automated systems that are pretty impressive. So yeah.Speaker 2 (36:10):Yeah. Surges them in. He said, we've gotten smiling on the sidelines there. So yeah. Give him a shout out. He's in the room, but no, so yeah, social media definitely important. I know if there's a building brand and also recruiting helps a ton just recruit your ideal salesperson.Speaker 3 (36:26):Yeah. Yeah. And I've been averse to it, to be honest that I haven't been on social media in a while. I took a hiatus for a Facebook for like a, I dunno, a year, year and a half or something. But I think the resistance to social media was like, I just don't want to feel obligated to put myself out there with something contrived. I want it to feel authentic. And I want to feel like, I don't know that we're not trying to like manipulate people into anything. So luckily surges give me free reign on what to put on there. Um, and has worked with me on, um, the way I want to do things, which is, has been awesome. Yeah.Speaker 2 (36:59):That's awesome. Cool. Well, Dan, appreciate you coming on. And before we wrap up here, any final, I guess, words of advice you want to share with our solar printers with RS or guys that are listening on the show here today? Yeah.Speaker 3 (37:10):I would just say something I say often there's magic in the mundane, which is, goes back full circle to what we talk about. Like if you, if you practice piano for hours on end or, you know, parlayed any kind of musical talent or any other kind of rhythm, maybe from athletics, when you were young into knocking doors, you know, that the magic is in doing the same mundane things over and over and finding the magic, which is the income, the success, the, uh, the leadership, eventually all the things that you kind of want and are going after it's it's in the consistent daily. Yes.Speaker 2 (37:44):Yeah. Love that. And yeah, I'm sure you read the two book compound effect slight edge, but yeah. It's just like, if you haven't read those for our listeners, go read those for sure. I mean, that's yeah. That's the key to success. Most people aren't willing to do the little things everyday over a long period of time. Anyone can do it for one or two days, but the guys that are having success in this industry, or really anything they're doing the little things that no one wants to do for, you know, day after day afterSpeaker 3 (38:09):Day formula was written long ago. I just gotta follow it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.Speaker 2 (38:14):Love it. Dan will links were coming on the show. Guys, go give Dan a shout out soon, a message a DM on Instagram, Facebook, let them know you appreciate him on the show. And Dan, thanks again. We'll talk to you soon. Cool. Thanks Taylor. Appreciate it.Speaker 5 (38:28):Hey, Solarpreneurs quick question. What if you could surround yourself with the industry's top performing sales pros, marketers, and CEOs, and learn from their experience and wisdom in less than 20 minutes a day. For the last three years, I've been placed in the fortunate position to interview dozens of elite level solar professionals and learn exactly what they do behind closed doors to build their solar careers to an all-star level. That's why I want to make a truly special announcement about the new learning community, exclusively for solar professionals to learn, compete, and win with top performers in the industry. And it's called the Solciety, this learning community with designed from the ground up to level the playing field to give solar pros access to proven members who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry. Brightest minds four, are you ready for it? Less than $3 and 45 cents a day currently Solciety is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to Solciety.co To learn more and join the learning experience. Now this is exclusively for Solarpreneur listeners. So be sure to go to solciety.co And join. We'll see you on the inside.

The off-season continues and it would seem things have died down around the NHL, including in the Flyers Organization. So the question now is what is next for the Orange and Black as they gear up for Training Camp? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10 only on a2dradio.com.

After a few tense moments last season, Carter Hart looks to have a bounce-back season and with his new 3-Year, $11.9 Million Contract it seems that the Flyers have found the healthy medium between big boy contract and bridge deal. But it wasn't just Hart that signed on the dotted line, others around the NHL have been signed and are prepared to face new challenges on either new or old teams. Join Matt, Rob & Brian on an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10 only on a2dradio.com as they break down all the major Free Agent signings, and maybe some other shenanigans will pop up, who knows?

All eyes rest on the Free Agency as the NHL continues their offseason, several teams (including the Flyers) have made some big and subtle moves to make their teams better than they were last season. The question is though, who has had the best offseason so far? Join Matt, Rob & Brian along with Special Guest Nick Rodriguez as they breakdown the big transactions and signings of the NHL Free Agency.

The long wait is over and the picks are in, who did the Seattle Kraken select? Who will possibly be traded? & What Free Agents are they going to sign? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10 only on a2dradio.com, as they break down the picks of this year's 2021 Expansion Draft.

After a wild and crazy season we have our final Stanley Cup Champion of the NBC era and it's once again the Tampa Bay Lightning. After managing to win the cup in the Bubble in 2020, the Bolts managed to do it again this time in a pandemic shortened season with modified divisions and playoffs. Now that the Cup has been clinched the offseason is on and everyone is waiting with anticipation of what's next, Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10 only on a2dradio.com to see what is next for the NHL.

Dr. Rob-Brian The Trucker & Francisco-Relationship and Car Problems

Brian Phillips is Co-founder and CEO of The Basement, an integrated (technology + creativity + measurement) B2C and B2B marketing agency with its roots in production. Brian dabbled in art and worked in architecture before he took the artistic principles of rendering positive and negative space to marketing. He explains, “The positive space, the consumer journey, is one we can see and everything works.” He believes marketers can get a lot of understanding out of identifying and analyzing negative space – the things that don't work – and that these, too, can help define the client journey. He believes “Negative space helps define and form the positive space.” His interests today remain diverse. For the past year, he has avidly read scientific books, pursuing ideas related to how genetics might impact buying and selling. The agency manages all media and destinations (the social channels and websites where consumers engage), extracting and analyzing as much data as possible and using multivariate testing. As an example, the agency may “cross-reference data out of Amazon” with data from its analytics platform on the ecommerce side.” The Basement markets its clients through an often complex, multi-touch, multi-channel approach. Larger companies may have as many as 150 datapoints across their consumer journey from “high level impressions down to ecommerce platform conversions.”  Brian has found that insights gained by analyzing data about consumers in the lower funnel can provide information on how the consumer got there and what the consumer will do next. The agency measures its success through outcomes, which, Brain explains, ensures accountability. Brian says his agency's focus has always been on growth, but growth “has to be calculated.” When asked about his agency's culture, he says simply, “Stay fascinated,” and then expands on the thought, adding, “Stay curious, stay ambitious, stay competitive, stay genuine, and stay fascinated.” Brian can be reached on his agency's website at: thebsmnt.com. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I am your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by Brian Phillips, Co-founder and CEO of The Basement based in Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome to the podcast. BRIAN: Thank you. Thanks for having me. ROB: Excellent to have you here, Brian. Why don't you start off by telling us about The Basement and where the firm excels? BRIAN: The Basement is an integrated agency, and there's probably some backstory there of how we got to be an integrated agency with roots in a production company. It's sad but true, but one of our greatest strengths is being able to deliver on what we say we can do. I've sat at many tables with brands that are unsatisfied with whoever their partners are, and sometimes it's as simple as just being able to deliver. I think as a production company, at the beginning that was what we prided ourselves on, and over time we've evolved to include that same delivery mentality against the consumer journey and a fully integrated offering of technology and creativity and measurements with the consumer journey in mind. We've had a lot of success with brands. We're not afraid to talk about outcomes. Actually, we prefer talking about outcomes, and we prefer the accountability that comes with that. We've been very fortunate to align with some great brands, and they acknowledge and accept our approach. It's turned out to be very impactful for both their business and mine. ROB: Are those brands typically more consumer-facing, or is there some B2B in there as well? BRIAN: Mostly consumer-facing, but we do have some B2B. Certainly there are major differences there. But we really approach our work systematically and through a proprietary framework that we've developed. Technologies roll in, audiences roll into it, but at the end of the day we're still performing the same services against that framework for B2B and B2C. ROB: Interesting. Tell me a little bit more about that framework. I think you have some brands that are of a pretty big size, and their go-to-market with customers is probably very multi-touch in a way that would often be hard to measure and hard to be accountable for, but that very much seems to be what you've leaned into. BRIAN: Yeah, there's no question. It seems like the majority of our clients are that way with the multi-touch and the omnichannel approach. I think it's important when we start talking with a brand that we're all aligned on accountability, and where we're going to hold ourselves accountable and where the brands are going to be accountable. Throughout that initial phase where we're working on strategy, we have to come to consensus on how we're going to measure success. Measuring that success along the consumer journey is something that we work together on and then we measure against. So that becomes, in my opinion, a lot easier to have dialogue and to have fruitful conversations and collaborations if you're aligning at the beginning. And that approach has been the core of what we do and how we build our integrated offerings. ROB: What sorts of things are you measuring for brands? BRIAN: Oh, man. [laughs] One of our larger brands that we work with that is a consumer brand, we're measuring 150 datapoints across their consumer journey, and that's everything from high level impressions down to conversions through their ecommerce platform and everything in between. At that point we're managing all media, all what we call destinations – places where consumers engage, whether that be social channels, whether that be their enterprise websites. We're going to build that infrastructure inside of that journey so that we can extract as much data as possible. Then we want to analyze it. We want to understand if there's any insights we can gain in the lower funnel that can impact how the consumer's getting there and what the consumer's doing next. And we've got case studies where we've seen and applied insights that were upper funnel, that were on the advertising layer, where we were able to test what type of product mix through display ads – we would run multivariate testing and we noticed that these certain product mixes with color combinations and words were effective. That then translates all the way down to the way we communicate on our website and what products we show on the website, how we're driving conversions through the performance funnel online. That cross-analysis is very important to us. We use and leverage a lot of technology, don't get me wrong; technology is extremely important to our business. But at the end of the day, we want to make sure that our core teams that work with the brand are analyzing that data, and we're looking for those insights and we're trying to figure things out on behalf of the brand. Machine learning is helpful. Obviously, it's a trend and it's going to be here. It already has changed the business and it's going to continue to change the business. But at the end of the day, I think you still need to have humans involved in that analysis, and that's something that we do very diligently with our clients. ROB: It's fascinating because a lot of marketers think about knowing how to track marketing when they can track the individual user all the way around the internet, when they can get a hard link through to conversion, that sort of thing. Certainly, you will have that in cases on the ecommerce side. But it almost sounds like on the broader consumer/general market side – maybe they bought something on Home Depot's website or Costco's website or Amazon or someplace where you can't sink into the data – it sounds like maybe you're still pulling on the stages of the customer journey at a macro level to see what's pushing down the funnel. Is that how you're thinking about it? You know what the stages are, you know what people are doing; even if you can't link each person, you can still see the echoes of what you've done up-funnel. BRIAN: Exactly. That's exactly right. Amazon's a great example where we can get data out of Amazon and we can get data out of our analytics platform on the ecommerce, and we have to cross-reference those. We have to understand why this happened versus something else happened. My background is kind of an interesting background, but it certainly comes from the creative side. I often talk to my team and in general about the importance of the consumer journey and looking at it very similar to figure drawing. The way that I learned figure drawing is you have positive and negative space, and the positive space, the consumer journey, is one we can see and everything works. But with figure drawing, you need to leverage and use the negative space as templates to help you define and form your positive space. I relate that to marketing and the consumer journey in a way that says sometimes things don't work, but understanding why they don't work and having the measurements in place to understand and help define – that helps us define what's going to work and what didn't work. So we really want to look at the positive and the negative space. I think there's an idea or a wish for marketers and agencies to say, “We just want to find all the positive and that's it. That's what we want to base everything on.” We try to look more holistic than that, because we think we can get a lot of definition and a lot of insights out of the things that don't work. ROB: It's fascinating to hear such a – there's sort of a disciplined line of thinking around the creativity that probably frees you up to be creative in other ways. It's interesting how it echoes right into marketing. It almost sounds like we're talking about planetary physics or something while we're at it. BRIAN: Now you're really going to get me going. [laughs] ROB: Oh, how so? BRIAN: I study science. I don't read many business books; I never did. I mean, I've read marketing and business books, but I've found that the focus on our business and the focus on science, everything from natural order to epigenetics, is something that I've been really focused on over the past year and a half and applying that level of thinking. To your point, you mentioned the word discipline, and I think that's certainly a strength of the agency and it's something that my business partner and I have always strived for. If I were to analyze my career, I think a systematic, more scientific approach to creative is something that I've always done. The parallels of science and creativity are just so fascinating to me. ROB: I think you can't just drop epigenetics into the conversation without actually helping those of us who think we know what that is, but maybe we don't. [laughs] Can you give a definition of what that is and maybe how it ties into, if it does tie into, your work and marketing? BRIAN: Any of the scientists in your audience may say, “He's completely off,” so I'll use the caveat that this is how I've interpreted it. The genes that we have as humans are what I would consider more binary. They do simple on and off. They can't define the entire character of a person. They may define the way you look, they may define other parts of your genetic makeup, but epigenetics is a newer science that is the study of the chemicals that are how the genes are expressed. What's so fascinating to me and what really got me interested in the concept is that these chemicals, these imprints of chemicals can become part of your genetic makeup that you can pass down to your children. There may be a certain way that you move or the way that you stand that wouldn't necessarily be part of a gene. A gene doesn't have that in it, but epigenetics have put that imprint on you because of the way that things have happened through your environment. That is what I find so fascinating about it – that study of behavior and getting all the way down to that science to say these behaviors can actually be explored through genes. Tying that to marketing – I think this is way, way future-focused, but when that data becomes more readily available and people start mapping it, which they are now, how does that bring the science of genetics into the targeting of how people are buying and selling products? That is the stuff that I find fascinating and I read about. ROB: Is this something in the neighborhood of a gene drive or something like that? Is that what we're talking about here? Or am I completely out of the neighborhood? BRIAN: What did you call that? ROB: A gene drive, where they can take certain things and introduce them – like they can introduce sterilization into the mosquito population not by shooting a mosquito into a crisper or anything like that. It's called a gene drive. Basically, they can introduce this trait into the population in this external way. BRIAN: I'm not spending a lot of my time and energy on what they're going to do with that innovation. [laughs] I do think that the future of medicine is going to be more tailored based on the structural variations within people's genes. So I do think that's going to change medicine as a potential outcome. But right now, my fascination and interest has just been the data and what happens when that source, that mapping has been done, what you do with it. It's like Tesla having all the data of people driving their cars. ROB: I see. So, you're able to measure things you've never been able to measure before to get insight you've never been able to draw before, just by how deep you're able to look into the picture. BRIAN: Right. That's what we keep doing as society. We keep finding new ways to extract data, and that is a parallel to the way we look at our framework and the way that we work with our clients. How can we extract meaningful data from the journey? It's just going to get smarter and more robust, and the systems are going to be in place and the first party data is going to be there. It's an interesting time, for sure. ROB: You've alluded a couple of times to your own background and your own origin story. What is the origin story of The Basement? What made you decide to start the firm, and what have been some key inflection points along the way? BRIAN: How far do you want me to go back? I think there's some relevance to the first brush of creativity. For the record, I'm about 6'6” and I come from an athletic family, and I was a basketball player. There was a point in my life where I thought I was going to go play basketball. Certainly not professionally, but in college. And I was always an artist. When I was in high school – this was in the early to mid-'90s – I met a graffiti artist from Chicago. That culture didn't really exist in Indianapolis in a meaningful way. That culture really didn't exist in the common culture of society. Hip-hop culture was in its infancy, really, at that time. I became fascinated by that art form. I think one of the key powers or superpowers, if you will – and for the record, I think superpowers change over time. At that time in my life, one of the things that defined me was defiance, and I think that carried through my career, from graffiti art to wanting to be an animator when I saw the movie Toy Story. That became my goal. My dream was to be a character animator. That's what my career set off into: how can I make animated films or shorts or whatever? I didn't really have a definition. I ended up in architecture, and I spent a number of years in architecture. It was at this period when the internet was becoming relevant. It was getting introduced to businesses. This was pre-broadband. Everyone was on dial-up. We were just at that point in society where the internet and how people engaged online was being defined. Then I became really interested in creating these very rich, high-end experiences that eventually became online, for lack of a better term, engagements. That's how my career started. I was doing that in architecture, and at one point my business partner and I met, and I was frustrated with my career and the ceiling that I saw for myself and the work I wanted to do. I wanted to work at Pixar. I left. I just quit my job. I convinced my business partner to start a business. He was certainly more of a marketing business mind than me at the time. I was very much an artist and a producer. The combination of the two of us has worked out really well. And we left. He left McDonald's Corporation, where he was a very successful regional marketing director, and I was this young, probably cocky kid who was doing 3D animation and interactive 3D online and virtual worlds, and we took off. We ended up becoming one of the first digital agencies in Indiana, and from there we started The Basement because we saw a void with traditional agencies that didn't have an understanding of digital. We saw that as an opportunity and a void in the market and serviced agencies for the first 5 or 6 years of our business as a high-end interactive studio, doing animated TV spots, doing Flash games. We made a number of video games, we made a number of TV spots, we did a number of very high-end, rich websites for consumer brands and national product launches, until we saw an opportunity. We were really good at building the destinations and the engagement points with consumers, and we would always ask the agencies and the people we were working with, “How are we getting people here? What's the narrative? What's that consumer narrative and how do we extend it?” That's where we started to take on more direct clients. We had clients that were at agencies that went to the brand side and wanted to hire us directly. It really started to snowball, and then we built a media business, and now we have a full national internal media business and analytics business, and obviously creative is still there, still a studio. We still produce a lot of work in-house. There's a ton of content that gets produced along with consumer journey. Being able to build that content against a very robust media strategy that's looking at data, looking for data, that's the kind of integration that we've built. In a very, very short, run-on sentence, that's how we got to where we are. ROB: Brian, you mentioned something that I think is very common, which is that a creative firm starts up to work on a particular practice area that other agencies aren't focused on, and you'll either take a referral or you'll get white-labeled under them on the engagement – and then there's this jumping off point that has to come around to grow more. That's that graduation from taking other people's subprojects and leftovers and engaging the clients directly. How did you change the mindset and make that jump in the business? Because a lot of people get stuck there. BRIAN: I really give a lot of that credit to my business partner. We also have one of our vice presidents who took the client services part of the business. We all worked really hard together, and my business partner's background in the agency was account service. He knew that business. He knew it very well. He's very disciplined, and he understands how to build systems, and again, echoing the points that we made, we think systematically. So we built systems that will hold ourselves accountable, and we made sure that we were honest with each other and collaborated. We're transparent. I think that transparency was a very important key for us with our clients throughout. If we can do something, we'll tell you we can do it. If we can't do it at that time, we're going to be honest with you and we'll tell you when we can do it. That formula worked really well for us. I've always been an advocate for hiring people that are better than you, and that is what we did. At that time we had to build a culture, and we built a culture around growth not only for our clients, but for ourselves and for the individuals that are within the company. We fostered the culture, and that culture helped organically make us better. That is I think equal weight in the success of that adoption and being able to change and being able to recognize how something needs to improve. That's, again, been a big part of who we are. We have a tagline, which really is the definition of our culture, and that's “Stay fascinated.” Our culture is defined by stay curious, stay ambitious, stay competitive, stay genuine, and stay fascinated. That idea of staying fascinated is see something bigger than yourself, see something that we can become collectively. When you see something and you strive for something and you strive for growth, things need to change and things get better. That's how we define our culture, and that's how we were able to improve. Because I'll tell you right now, our account service business was not great when we started. It was good. We've made it great. ROB: It sounds like by being honest with yourself and with your clients – both of which takes discipline, which we said before – you were able to avoid getting yourself in the deep end in some areas and say no to the things that were too big while also growing into bigger and bigger capabilities along the way. BRIAN: Yeah. We expanded our services along the way. Again, very, very proud today. We've had tremendous growth over the life of the agency, and we still plan to grow. We are going to continue to grow. Thinking of it from a biological standpoint, organisms grow to the point where they peak and they start to decay. We feel that we're not even close to decaying. Growth has always been a part of our strategy, but it has to be calculated. We've said no to things that we knew we weren't going to be able to deliver against, and that I think is very important and has defined us by saying no to things versus saying yes to everything. That was a really good business lesson that we've learned along the way. And preservation of culture, because you can say yes to things and short term you can grow revenue, you can make more money – but at the peril of what? That was something we've always been very protective of: the culture, the people, the dynamics within the team. Because as we recruit and we want to hire the most talented people, then you have to protect them and you have to make sure that they are in a position to do what they're great at. The point I made about superpowers evolving – as I got further in my career and further into the growth of business, that became part of my role and what I strive to be good at. ROB: It's quite a journey, Brian. Thank you for sharing. I feel like there's a lot more we could pull on; I want to be respectful of everybody's time. Brian, when people want to get in touch with you and with The Basement, how should they connect with you? BRIAN: Certainly the website for The Basement, and that is thebsmnt.com. That's the easiest way to get a hold of us. We love challenges, and we love brands that want to swing above their weight class. We're actively looking for new partnerships. I really appreciate you taking a moment to have me on and talk about this business that we've built out of Indianapolis, which is not typically known for advertising. ROB: If people don't know, there's a lot there. ExactTarget didn't get as long in the sun as people might've wanted it to, but that was a big deal out of Indy, right? BRIAN: Oh my goodness, yes. ExactTarget has been a fantastic story, and Salesforce is there. Yeah, things are changing. There's no doubt. Things have definitely changed and momentum is with our city right now. ROB: Got that Atlanta to Indy connection with Pardot and Salesforce and all that. We appreciated ExactTarget as well. It was good for our ecosystem. BRIAN: Good. ROB: Thanks so much, Brian. Good to have you on. Be well. BRIAN: Likewise. Thank you again. ROB: Bye. Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

The Flyers started out the week in a terrible state with an abysmal performance at Lake Tahoe, however, the Flyers managed to rebound against the Rangers. But the question remains if the Flyers can keep pace with the teams in their Division as the short-season continues on, join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10 only on a2dradio.com. As the boys review the Orange and Black’s victory against the Blueshirts of Broadway and an update on the big stories going on around the NHL.

After defeating the Washington Capitals on Super Bowl Sunday it would seem that the season was back on track for the Flyers. However Covid-19 has plagued the season and several teams have already had to postpone games and now it would seem the Flyers have joined that list as Travis Sanheim, Claude Giroux & Justin Braun have been placed on Covid Protocol and therefore the Orange and Black have had no choice but to wait before they can play again. How long will the Flyers have to postpone their games? How long will the Flyers be without Giroux, Braun & Sanheim? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour for this and much more, live only on a2dradio.com.

The Hockey Happy Hour returns with a brand new episode live at 10 right here on a2dradio.com and tonight Matt, Rob & Brian preview the Atlantic Division. With the Defending Stanley Cup Champions, four of the Original Six teams & two up-and-coming franchises what can we expect from this division for the 2020-21 season.

Join us again for another trip with Carl & Greig on Desert Planet Discs as they chat with Grammy winning UK session drummer and Star Wars fan Robert Brian, who has played with artists such as Peter Gabriel, Simple Minds, Goldfrapp and Souixsie Souix, and many more. We find out how musicians are coping during the COVID-19 crisis and how the galaxy far, far away inspired a young boy to follow his dreams. You can contact any of our shows and send in your listeners questions by emailing radio@fanthatracks.com or comment on our social media feeds: www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ7LZotr3rQhVJwpO3b2ELw www.instagram.com/fanthatracks www.facebook.com/FanthaTracks www.twitter.com/FanthaTracks www.pinterest.co.uk/fanthatracks/ www.fanthatracks.tumblr.com/ www.tiktok.com/@fanthatracks

Brian Lawson and his brother left their jobs in engineering, IT, and software development to found WebMO (Web Marketing Optimizer), a digital marketing agency. From the beginning, they focused on optimizing organic visibility/SEO and doing Google search ads, not just studying digital marketing tactics, strategies, and analysis, but digging into the “behind the scenes” mechanics. Today, WebMO is heavily data-driven, does everything digital marketing, and serves a large number of diverse and predominantly small-businesses nationwide. WebMO's “super-detailed” understanding of Google Analytics, conversion tracking, visitor engagement metrics, and the conversion heuristic enables the agency to fully understand clients' market spaces. Over the years, the agency built their own analytical tools. The combination of three major Google data points – Google Analytics, a company's Google Search Console data, and the data compiled in a company's Google my Business listing – provides a clear understanding of a company's “true space in the market.” Education is the beginning of WebMO's relationship with its clients. Brian loves to break down complicated technical concepts. He is used to speaking to groups of people, and loves running free workshops to help business owners understand complex concepts. As a result of this proactive training, WebMO became a Google Partner. When Google introduced the Grow with Google program, which encourages small business organizations, chambers of commerce, public libraries, agencies, and other organizations to participate in live feed educational workshops, WebMO was on board. Because of the huge number of people who have gone through WebMO's workshops, Google recognizes the agency as a “high impact partner.”  Education on how Google works, Brian says, “is absolutely critical.” After defining a client's market space, the agency evaluates the client's unique situation, and then makes recommendations. Because Brian's agency works with smaller companies with smaller budgets, “testing” the market and quantifying the response works well. Instead of spending thousands of dollars for a huge campaign, the clients may spend a few hundred. WebMO is then able to quickly show them the ROI on that investment. Brian says, “If it's going to fail, fail fast and fail cheap.” Covid-19 changed the agency's operations. Although WebMO has been unable to meet with clients in person, it continues its educational outreach through weekly updates. Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Yelp are constantly tweaking their policies . . . WebMO is working to keep clients aware of these changes. One of Brian's more recent presentations covered “how to look at Google Trends to truly understand the impact that this [Covid-19] situation is having on your business.” Brian explains that Covid-19 has affected businesses in several different ways. Companies that provide such things as bartending services for parties are devastated. For other companies, like air conditioning repair companies and plumbers, it's business as usual. For the last category, exemplified by companies that sell cleaning supplies, provide in-home nanny services, and medical professionals who are still working, traffic has gone “off the charts.” In addition to having its own clients, WebMO partners with agencies that need an invisible number cruncher. When asked what he would have done differently when he started his agency, Brian said, he should have been “a little quicker to respond to where our clients were probably needing us most.” He seems to be doing that now. Brian can be reached on his agency's website at: www.web-mo.com Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by Brian Lawson, Owner and Co-founder of WebMO, based in Tucson, Arizona. Welcome to the podcast. BRIAN: Hey, thanks, Rob. I appreciate you having me on. ROB: Brian, it's great to have you. Why don't you start off by telling us about WebMO and what makes WebMO great? BRIAN: Awesome. We are, as you mentioned, a Tucson, Arizona based digital marketing agency. I've always introduced our company as being a little different than quite a few others in our space because of our backgrounds. The co-founders, myself and my brother, come from a much different background than the typical marketing agency background. A lot of times people that provide the types of services that we provide, like websites and digital marketing and SEO and Google and YouTube and Facebook and all that, tend to come from either the design world or sometimes a traditional marketing background. Our backgrounds were in engineering, IT, software development, all those things. So, from the very beginning, we started approaching all of these digital marketing tactics and strategies and analysis with a much greater emphasis on the machinery, the real techy stuff that's lingering behind the scenes. You think about Google as one example; Google's a company that has 20,000 engineers and 300 designers. So, taking that real math-based, almost “super nerd” approach, if you want to think about it that way, is a good way to approach it given the kind of issues we're dealing with. We tend to be – again, compared to most – a little more data-driven, a little more analytical. We definitely tend to be sometimes a little skeptical of other things that some others in our industry are saying. That gave us the foundation for a very unique and somewhat successful agency. ROB: It sounds like that would also shape the sort of client who comes to you and resonates with you. What sort of clients are drawn to and resonate with this approach? BRIAN: We have a pretty large variety of clients, which thankfully serves us well when things in the market go up or down. We don't really specialize in any one kind. We have some larger end clients that pretty much just engage our services purely for the data analysis part of what we do. We're one of the few agencies who have a complete understanding of all the things going on with Google Analytics and conversion tracking and embracing some of the math that's in our industry, like visitor engagement metrics or the conversion heuristic. We really get super detailed on that. But interestingly, that overall idea is also very appealing to a small business. If you're a house painter and you've been through multiple agencies so far and no one's really been able to figure it out, when they hear that story, it's like, “Whoa, these guys are super into this stuff and they're really technical and analytical.” In a way, it gives that client a reason to believe that maybe this time will be different. Our industry, digital marketing, is old enough now to where most businesses out there have had at least one or two or more experiences with other efforts, and most of them haven't been exactly what they were hoping for. So as an agency – and I would say this to any agency – one of the things you have to really get out there for a client is a reason to believe that this time, things will be different. For us, it's that. It's our unique value proposition, that idea that we're going to take a closer look at the data, but because we have this deep level of understanding of how this stuff works, we're going to find a way to get things happening that maybe weren't happening before. Now, on top of that, I also happen to be a business owner, and I have been a business owner for 30 years, so when I'm talking to another business owner, it's like, “Oh yeah, you get it. You understand.” So a lot of our clients – I'd say the majority of them – definitely fall into the small business category, with a few exceptions being some of those higher end companies that want to bring us in for the analytics side of things. ROB: Very interesting. What sort of toolkit do you bring to bear on that analytics problem? I think people look at tools all the time, and often having right thinking is much more important than the tools, but having good execution is also helpful along those lines. What's your go-to? BRIAN: We've actually done a lot of in-house compilation things, if you want to think about it that way. We're very heavy on the technical side. We have a team of 23 people total, very heavy on the techy side. A lot of developers and programmers. Because of our background being software developers/app developers, we really didn't have to rely on finding third party solutions to do most of what we do. We were able to grow them from the ground up. One example is, for instance, if you're trying to analyze a company's visibility. Let's say you've got a local PC repair guy, whatever, and they want to really understand how they're doing online. We rejected this idea of rank reports way before everyone else did. Even when we entered into this business probably close to 10 years ago, we immediately looked at that model and said, “This doesn't make any sense.” Clients were getting these reports that said “Hey, you're #3 on this term and #6 on that term,” and it all seemed so useless, honestly. Clients were already saying it was useless because they were looking at these reports and saying, “Whatever. Yeah, you found that I'm #3 if I type this exact phrase or whatever; what good does that do me? What do I get? Am I going to get a prize for this? What's the reward?” So we almost right out of the gate rejected that model and said rank reports are about useless, especially when it comes to local visibility. We started creating our own analysis tools that combined, at the time – and now more than ever, in today's market – the three major data points in Google, which is the data that's being accumulated, of course, in Google Analytics, your Google Search Console data, and all the data that's being compiled in your Google My Business listing. The only way to get a really accurate understanding of your true space in the market is with all three of those data points being combined. And then taking it a step further – and again, just putting your mind in a small business owner's frame of mind, they say, “Yeah, I get that I have traffic and I understand that all these people are finding me on these different words and phrases, but again, what does it really mean?” So we'll look at a market and say, “You are in Phoenix, Arizona; there are 50,000 searches per month, roughly, for people looking for plumbing repair. As a business, you, Mr. Plumber, are visible about 33,000 of those times.” Like I said, compiling all this data. That's the starting point: understanding your percentage of market share as opposed to just saying, “Hey, you're showing up in the third spot on this particular search term.” Then it just goes from there. If you're going to have any chance of getting a client or winning a new customer, they have to be able to at least see. As a business owner – and of course, we teach them this – the very first question you should be asking is, “How ubiquitous am I? If there's 50,000 people searching per month, how often am I one of those people that at least appears in front of somebody's eyeballs?” That's just one example. ROB: Absolutely, that makes sense. You talked a little bit about your technical background and your co-founder, your brother's background, coming into starting this business. But in particular, what was it that made you decide to start this business when you did? How did you go from the technical background to “I am going to start a digital marketing agency”? BRIAN: It's interesting. A couple things. We're serial entrepreneurs, as most business owners tend to be. From early on, from about the early '90s, about 1991, we had started an IT services company that was pretty much helping businesses with, at the time, the very confusing world of internal LANs and inter-office communication and computer networking and all that, and then branching into internet configuration and everything else. So, I had a very deep, good long list of local businesses that trusted us for pretty much everything technical. This buildup started happening probably around 2009-2010 with clients saying to us, “Hey, you guys are awesome in helping with all this other stuff, but I can't find anybody that can explain this to me or help me with this.” Almost getting dragged into it from that standpoint. We were thinking, “That's interesting, but let's put a pin in it.” Meanwhile, again as serial entrepreneurs, we did a tech startup. It was a home-based internet security product. I won't get into a lot of detail, but we had the old venture capital funding and all that, and we had developed a marketing strategy for that online. And it was good, using a combination of SEO and Google search ads and all the other things. We had it really cooking. After some investors came in, they basically said, “Hey, you guys are engineers. You guys are probably really good at communicating what you know about your product, but you're not marketers. You don't know what you're doing there. Let's hand that over to this agency” – it was in New York City, one of the bigger agencies out there. “Let's let them take care of that part.” We're like, eh, okay, let's see what happens. Sure enough, we watched what they did and we were doing it better. Our results, everything about it was far exceeding what one of the top agencies in the country was doing. So of course, the little lightbulbs go off in our heads, thinking, as soon as this current tech startup is behind us, between the demand that we're seeing from the boots on the ground, all the people out there that were literally begging us to help them, and combining that with the affirmation that we were truly, truly good at this stuff, our course was set. That was about 10 years ago. ROB: It's interesting how oftentimes through that experience in another business, you find out – sometimes it can be wanderlust and you just try to do something different, but in this case you were able to find something that you could do differently and successfully. If I rewind the conversation a little bit, you were talking about some of these rather complex things. I think if you ask a client sometimes to pick an attribution strategy in Google Analytics, their eyes glaze over. It sounds like you have the strength and knowledge to be able to prescribe that for them pretty well. But marketing also requires going one step further when you're working for a client and helping them understand. How do you think about helping these owners understand something like attribution when you get to something like beyond first click, last click, even attribution, and you're trying to tell somebody that an ad gave them 20% of a lead? I think it'd be pretty confusing. How do you think about getting those concepts through to clients? BRIAN: That's a great question. Early on, we really embraced this idea of the client relationship model, starting with education. I'll come back to that in a second, but really making sure that our client is truly educated. We weren't oblivious to the fact that, for the most part, in our industry, the number one reason why clients drift away is because they make a comment that says something like, “I didn't know what they were doing.” They honestly didn't understand what was happening. So first is education. Then it's evaluation of their specific situation. Only after that we make specific recommendations as to what they should be doing. The education side – as it turns out, I love talking about this stuff. I'm a passionate advocate for the entire model of digital marketing. I love getting in front of groups of people and explaining these things. Because of my background working with businesses on the IT side, I spent many, many times in boardrooms and in front of employees from companies, really breaking down very complicated technical things into little anecdotes and analogies and fun ways to think about stuff. So I was always very capable of doing that, and I really truly enjoyed it. We got way ahead of the curve on that and early on started doing workshops, just free education workshops that would be designed to get business owners understanding this stuff. Because they're dying for information. Even today, even though our industry is a little bit more mature, still so many business owners are quite oblivious. They really don't understand even the basics, let alone some of the more complex concepts like you mentioned. So we hopped on that train big time, and interestingly, it led us – because we're also what's considered a Google Partner; we have a Google Partnership status, and about 3 or 4 years ago, Google introduced this program called Grow with Google, where they were encouraging small business organizations, chamber of commerce, public libraries, or whatever to allow Google to do these live feed education workshops. At the time, since we were a partner, they were opening it up to agencies as well, so we started becoming involved in that. We did that so much that we became the only agency, at least in the state of Arizona, that Google recognized as one of its high impact partners. That was strictly because of the sheer number of people that have gone through our workshops. I know that's sort of a long roundabout way to answer your question, but yeah, education on that stuff is absolutely critical. There's also another element as well. There's getting a client to the point to know enough to know that they'll never truly understand it, and then they basically have faith in you at that point. They say, “Okay, I get that it's really complicated. I don't think I fully understand it, but I'm fully convinced that you understand it, and as long as at the end of the day I'm seeing results and I see that you're attentive, that's really the key.” ROB: As we were chatting before we started recording, that background you have in doing this education has really helped in the moment that we're in. We are in the middle of this coronavirus national shutdown, everybody work from home situation. How are you adapting your agency to operate in this new, fully remote environment? What parts of that do you think you might stick with even once we're all back together in person more often? BRIAN: That's a great question. Like we were talking about, I love the live workshop. I thrive in that environment where I can be interactive with people and gauge – if I'm saying something that's flying right over their heads, I can usually pick that up. So the challenge, for all of us really – and this doesn't just go for workshops; it goes for meetings, it goes for everything that we're doing right now – is to try to find a way to offset that disconnect. Like we talked about before, there's no substitute for that live connection. That being said, I think there are also some opportunities right now. I think that as of today – I feel like we're still, sadly, in the early stages of this; we're hopefully maybe a third of the way through, who knows – but I think after we settle into the new normal and people realize that, “Okay, I'm going to be here a while. I can't, even if I wanted to in some cases, be as productive as I was before because I can't do meetings, I can't do this, whatever. I'm stuck at home, not even driving” – I mean, for some people, an hour or two of their day just opened up because they don't have to drive cars. Again, for business owners and for those that are truly entrepreneurial, I think they are going to shift over to this mindset of saying, “You know what? With all this free time, I'm going to use it to make things better. I'm going to finally understand this thing I never really understood before. I'm going to figure out how to program my TV.” Whatever is on their list of things. From a business standpoint, they might actually be more interested in circling back to saying, “When I come out of this, I've always wanted to try Facebook ads, but I don't know how to do it.” So I think there will be an increase in the number of people that are at least interested in listening to or participating in some form of webinar or podcast. I don't think we're there yet; I think people are still in the “I've just got to figure out how to work remotely.” But once that settles in, I think there might actually be some opportunity. Back to your question. We were doing a pretty steady series of live events. We've obviously switched those over to all webinars. Even in the month of April that we're in right now, we've allocated every Thursday morning from 9 to 10 a.m. – we're just doing updates. There's so much information coming out in waves from Google and Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram and Yelp, and they're all offering money this and credits for that and changing their policies. So, we're allocating that time just to get everyone up to date. But then we're also layering in really interesting topics. Like I think the one we're doing tomorrow is how to look at Google Trends to truly understand the impact that this situation is having on your business. This is something anybody can do. You don't have to have this high level of analytical skills to go to Google Search Trends and see whether or not people are searching more often for this, less often for that, or about the same. Once you're looking at that data and saying, “Interesting. People are no longer searching for this; however, they really are searching for that now,” that actually might help you course correct and maybe adapt your strategies a little bit. So yeah, we're still 100% all-in on the education side. Obviously switching over to webinar, for better or for worse, and then hopefully getting back to the normal mode once all of this is behind us. ROB: Are there any interesting examples of the Google Trends shifts you've seen on behalf of clients that you might be able to share? BRIAN: Absolutely. People ask me, “How are you guys doing?” We have such a diverse number of clients that we're really seeing all three scenarios. We're seeing some that are just devastated, sadly. We have clients that specialize in providing bartender services for parties and events, and of course, they're wiped out. Their entire book of business from now through May no longer exists. Our guidance to them is saying all the people that had these events are going to have to reschedule, so even though you're not finding people that are looking to do it right now, you might find them later. We have some that are seeing no impact whatsoever. If you're looking at AC repair or plumbing repair – pipes and air conditioning systems have absolutely no respect for the stay at home orders. If they're going to break, they're going to break. They're not going to wait until everything's normal, so there's no reason why there'd be less search on that, and there isn't. If anything, we're probably going to start to see a sudden uptick of that. People are home more often, and if you're in a state like Arizona where it's going to get into the upper 80s this week, they're going to be putting stresses on systems that they didn't really have to before with their kids at home and working from home. So I would expect they may grow a little bit. The third category of businesses that we work with are actually seeing increases. We have businesses that sell office cleaning supplies. We have businesses that offer nanny services for people that come to their homes and watch their kids. Again, there's a lot of people that have to go to work. All the people in the medical industry. So there's an example of a huge uptick. Their website traffic and the amount of leads they're getting is off the charts. So we really are in an interesting situation where we get to see all three of those scenarios playing out. ROB: That's an interesting mix, and probably encouraging to have that combination of some clients that are needing you a little bit more while some of those other clients maybe need a little bit less while they figure out this time. BRIAN: Right. It's almost like having a stock portfolio. [laughs] It's good to have diversity. You've got your winners and you've got some of them that aren't so good. ROB: When you think about your experience in building WebMO – and it sounds like you have some experience from building prior businesses as well – what are some things you would do differently if you were starting WebMO from scratch that you've learned? BRIAN: That's a good question. I saw that previously, and it's always hard for a business owner to do that, when you see yourself as being like “I've got this figured out.” But I would say in the early years, we found our lane. We found this lane and we were very committed to sticking to it. We were like, “We don't want to build websites, we don't want to do social media, we don't want to get into this, we don't want to get into that.” We were very much specializing in really optimizing organic visibility/SEO and doing Google search ads, because we had that down. We mastered those two things. We were probably a little more reluctant than we could've been to just open up and be more responsive to what the market was asking for. There was probably a few years where we just said, “No, no, no, no, no.” Again, hindsight is 20/20. I don't know, maybe it was better to do that. But today, through growing and evolving or whatever, I think the lesson with most small business owners is you have to listen to the market. You have to provide what your client wants, ultimately. You can't be too stubborn about saying, “No, no, this is all you need.” But on the other hand, you can't be running around like a crazy person saying yes to everything and getting into areas that are outside your expertise. I would've probably gone a little sooner into getting more into a lot of the other stuff that we do. Now currently, we do stuff across the board. Of course, we build websites, and we have campaigns running on everything from Spotify to obviously all the social media platforms and LinkedIn and direct email campaigns. You name it, we probably do it, if it's in digital marketing. I probably would've been a little more open to doing that sooner if I could roll back time for a few years. But again, you can't really second guess it too much when you like where you're at currently. We're very happy with where the business is now. It's always tough to say – but if I had done that too soon and I hadn't really mastered it, maybe it would've done more harm than good. It is a tough question, but that's probably about the closest I can get. Just being a little quicker to respond to where our clients were probably needing us most. That would probably be it. ROB: Are there any new directions that you think you might be getting pulled in, but you're not quite sure yet? BRIAN: There's certain things that I've just never been a big advocate of when it comes to marketing in general. There's certain tactics that I'm not probably ever going to be convinced to do. Things like spam. We're never going to tell a client, “You should be blasting spam out to people's inboxes.” Sending advertisements to people's text messages is to me crossing a line that I just will never feel comfortable doing. Yeah, you know you're going to get email solicitations from people you don't know; you accept that. You know you've got to see commercials when you watch TV. You know you're going to see ads on websites. You know if you're a Facebook user, you're going to see advertisements. But texts to me are our one safe space where we can be sheltered from getting bombarded with ads. We've had clients before say, “Hey, what about these?” and I'm just like, “I don't think so.” I think I'd still be reluctant to do something that I know, anecdotally, people in general just really, really don't like. Even if there's a possible ROI on it, there's probably some areas where I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my clients. ROB: I absolutely understand that, and I totally agree with you about crossing those lines. It's interesting what you mentioned on being pulled toward social earlier and resisting it. In a way, one of the things I end up seeing as I have these conversations is a lot of the people who got really good early at doing the core search ads and that sort of thing stayed away from social when it was fluffy and then came back into it when it wasn't “Hey, let me make a nice organic post that goes viral and gets a lot of activity,” but “Oh my goodness, Facebook ads is becoming sophisticated, and look at these tools we can bring to bear.” I think there may be a theme there. Also the case in email. I think a lot of clients weren't ready to use email intelligently for a while. BRIAN: I would say that's exactly correct, and that almost mirrors precisely how we approached it. I didn't like social media management because of that very reason. It was fluffy, like you said. There wasn't a lot of ways to calculate an ROI. There wasn't as much engineering and math and science behind it. It was way too obvious what you were doing and not doing from a client's perspective. There wasn't anything you could bring to the table other than really clever writing skills. It just didn't go to our core value. It's like, we're math guys, we're science guys; how in the world does that apply to making a clever, quippy little Facebook post? But then, like you mentioned, things got a lot more interesting when some of these more sophisticated targeting tools – that's about the same time we started hopping into it, because then there was a value add. That's the thing. As an agency, as a business owner, or whatever, if you're not doing something that's adding value that's obvious, your lifespan with them is going to be limited. I always explain that with any transaction. You have this perception of value that the client or the customer sees, and if they see the cost being at about the same level – there's a value, there's what you're getting, and then there's the cost that they're paying for it – if that is out of balance, if they feel like “I'm paying too much because they're not doing this,” then it's going to be trouble. The problem that we ran into, and a lot of people ran into with social media management, is that it's so obvious what you're doing. There's no secret. They're looking at your posts, and for better or for worse, they're saying, “That's it? My 16-year-old could do that. I'm paying $1,000 a month. I could just hire a part-time person and have them do it all the time.” So it's really hard to explain or to get across to somebody that what you're doing is something that you're uniquely qualified to do, that somebody else couldn't do as well. About that time when ads became a little more sophisticated or whatever, it fit into – one of our core, principal beliefs is this idea that there are no expert marketers, only experienced marketers and expert testers. So, we started embracing this idea that every single strategy out there is probably worthy of testing. If you're looking at Facebook, if you're looking at Instagram, if you're looking at Spotify, whatever, you don't have to buy into this idea that you spend thousands of dollars and do it whether it's working or not. You just have to take a testing mentality and say, “I'll try it. I'll throw a few hundred bucks at this.” And if you're working with somebody like ourselves, who's very good at analyzing data, with a relatively small budget we can drill right down and say, “There you go. That little budget that you ran for 2 months, here's precisely what it got you. We may have run across the tactic that will work.” On the other hand, some things don't work. It's marketing, right? You're going through your ideas; some things are going to work, some things are going to fail. If it's going to fail, fail fast and fail cheap. That is the beauty of digital marketing. You don't have to necessarily do an ad buy that you're committed to for 6 months. You can actually try a small budget test. I know that was a long circle around, but that mindset of adopting this idea that our job is just to test things for our clients – we just need to execute tests – that then opened up everything. Everything from Yelp to LinkedIn to Bing and YouTube and whatever. That's what got us into that, after that first wave of pure social media management abated a little bit. ROB: That seems like a great principle to carry forward, this idea that you might not say no to something you don't believe is effective; you can test it, and you can even probably keep testing it as long as you are changing something and you're not just in a rut of experimental nothingness. BRIAN: Exactly. That idea of A/B split testing everything from your landing pages or conversion pages to your ad copy – again, the beauty of digital marketing comes back to data. If you have data, you can literally look at it and say, “That ad got a 3% click-through rate and led to this sort of visitor engagement when they got to my website. This ad had a 4% conversion rate, but had lower visitor engagement.” Okay, that's some great information. It's very unique that way. It's extremely hard, if not impossible, to get that level of detail on traditional marketing methods. Radio, TV, billboards, magazines – there's basic things you can do, maybe track phone calls, but the unique thing is you can't get into the mind of somebody watching a TV ad and see how they're reacting to it. When they come to your website or a landing page, based on all the math that we are able to apply to this, you can really understand the people that are there that appear to be engaged, the visitor engagement metric. It's pretty common in our industry. It's exciting to me. I'm super passionate about it. This is the kind of thing where I teach people this in a workshop and a lightbulb goes off. They're like, “That makes sense!” You can actually get a better understanding of if your marketing is even moving generally in the right direction. ROB: You definitely know your numbers, Brian. When people want to find you and WebMO, where should they look you up? BRIAN: You can just go to www.web-mo.com. That's our website. Or you can just type “WebMO Tucson” or “WebMO” Arizona, “WebMO.” You're going to find a few references to us out there. We do work with clients all over the country. We're based in Arizona, but we are definitely nationwide in terms of the clients we work with. We love to partner with other types of agencies. We have a lot of partnerships with website designers, traditional marketing agencies, where we provide these services behind the scenes and basically make you look awesome because we're back there crunching all these numbers and generating all this great data and reports. Meanwhile, you're talking to your client and saying, “Hey, look what we did!” Sot hats a good way to initiate the conversation. Sign up for a workshop. Ask for a free report where we can obviously analyze your market. There's lots of actionable steps once you get to the website. ROB: Excellent. Thank you so much, Brian. Best wishes to you and WebMO going forward. We'll look for you online. Enjoy. BRIAN: Thanks, Rob. I appreciate the time. Stay healthy and safe and all that good stuff. ROB: Indeed. Take care, Brian. Thanks. BRIAN: Thanks. ROB: Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

Join hosts Adam, Rob & Brian as they stand tall with their thoughts and reactions to both episodes of NXT and AEW Dynamite. Rob still has an issue with Cody and his lashes. Adam retreads on retreads in NXT. Brian is confused about the Nightmare Collective. The guys also have a special announcement for Monday Nights and the HotMic app. All of this... AND MORE!!! _________________________________________ Want to watch the guys do live commentary during your favorite WWE programs? Download the free app HOTMIC on your mobile device and PLEASE MAKE SURE you use invite code: MARKEDOUT ITS 100% FREE  _________________________________________ Use Discount Code MARKEDOUT at collarxelbowbrand.com for 10% off your entire order! Use Discount Code MARKEDOUT at markedoutgear.com for 10% off your entire order! _________________________________________ Join the AEW: ALL ELITE WRESTLING DISCUSSION FACEBOOK GROUP to stay involved with everything AEW! _________________________________________ IG: @markedoutwrestling TWITTER: @smartmarkshow FB: MarkedOut1 EMAIL: markedoutpodcast@gmail.com RATE/REVIEW/SUBSCRIBE

The Flyers have managed to get a victory on the road against the defending Stanley Cup Champions, But they must now set their sights on Montreal. Tune in to an all-new Hockey Happy Hour at 10:00 with Rob & Brian to see just how the Orange and Black fared against the Habs in Montreal. Plus Trade Deadline talk, are the Flyers buyers or sellers? all this and more will be discussed tonight right here on a2dradio.com.

The Flyers return home was just what the doctor ordered as the Orange and Black crushed the Sabres and Rangers in Philadelphia. Also, a shootout victory in Ottawa managed to be sandwiched in between those two wins. The question now is can the Flyers keep up this momentum after Christmas Break? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour live at 10:00 only on a2dradio.com.

The Flyers have had a rocking road getting back to Philadelphia, after an abysmal Western Conference road trip which saw the Flyers get 0 points. The Boys of Broad Street returned home to vanquish the visiting Anaheim Ducks but can they keep up that momentum going up against the Buffalo Sabres? Join Matt, Rob & Brian for an all-new Hockey Happy Hour at 10:00 only on a2dradio.com for all your NHL and Flyers news.

Adam, Rob & Brian are back together inside Y-Table Studio discussing the 12/11/19 episodes of NXT and AEW Dynamite. Brian shares his own Lexicon as to why AEW is the superior show. Rob still doesn't appreciate the Young Bucks. Adam chimes in on MJF's dig at Cody about his lisp that almost tears the group apart. All of this, AND MUCH MORE.....   -Use discount code MARKEDOUT at collarxelbowbrand.com for 10% off your order- -Use discount code MARKEDOUT at markedoutgear.com for 20% off your order- DM us for questions, sponsorship opportunities, segment ideas at any of the following: Twitter @smartmarkshow IG @markedoutwrestling FB @markedout1 email: markedoutwrestling@gmail.com    

Because you Demanded it!  Justin Workman & Rob Minch are back in the studio today to answer more questions from our listeners: How much money should you set aside for maintenance & capital expenses? What repairs should you know how to do yourself v.s. what should you hire someone to do? How do you avoid evictions? Who do you need on your team to make the lender happy? Resources for improving your Negotiation Skills. How do you quit your job and live of of rents? Justin, Rob & Brian also discuss the signs they're seeing in the marketplace and economy that are affecting their decisions & investments. Enjoy the show!

Couch Kid Joanne Fish comes by to talk about her documentary Mr. Handy's Blues and the Indigogo Campaign which begins tomorrow... Then we speak with Bo & The BluesDrivers, who’s new Self-Titled EP released in May.  The band recorded, mixed and mastered the album inside of one day, and they have been touring venues and festivals since.  I’ll chat with the band and find out more about their journey and where they are heading. Noah Wotherspoon Band took 2nd place at the International Blues Challenge this year and he was named Gibson Guitar Player of The Year. The new album, Mystic Mud just dropped and is already making noise throughout the Blues World. I get to chat with Noah about his life and music and he may even have Rob & Brian along for the ride! Jimmy Wolf is a member of the Turtle Clan Mohawk Tribe from upstate New York and has played on stages with some of the most revered Bluesmen around including Buddy Guy, Jr. Wells, Albert King and Albert Collins. His latest release is a Tribute to Little Johnny Taylor and I will speak with Jimmy about his finding the Blues and his career. Finally, Tad Robinson joins me.  Tad and I were supposed to hook up a few years back, but it never did.  Tonight he will be coming by to talk about his new release, Day Into Night and we will learn more about this talented artist while we explore the music on the album.