Podcast appearances and mentions of Gary Sutton

Is your financial bottom line the true story of your organization? In this episode, Jacob Stoller and Andrew Stotz take on the myth of the bottom line - maybe it doesn't tell you what you think it does. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.5 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today, I'm continuing my discussion with Jacob Stoller, a Shingo prize winning author of "The Lean CEO" and also "Productivity Reimagined" which explores how to apply the Lean and Deming management style at the enterprise level. The topic for today is myth number two, the Myth of the Bottom Line. Jacob, take it away.   0:00:32.7 Jacob Stoller: Thank you, Andrew. Great to be back here with you. Yeah, the myth of the bottom line, it is widely believed that if you look at the financials, that tells you everything you need to know about the productivity in your organization. And it's almost when you think what we talked about last time, so that the pyramid, the idea that the whole equals the sum of the parts, I think the myth of the bottom line is really kind of flows naturally out of that. If you believe in this pyramid that Dr. Deming was so critical of, the myth of the bottom line seems to make sense. Just that dollars flow through, you save a dollar here, it's all going to add up.   0:01:23.8 JS: So the problem with that is that productivity as we've learned from Dr. Deming, is actually determined by lots of non-financial factors. And what the bottom line gives you is a kind of an oversimplified, I guess, aggregated view. So you take the total sales of a company and you divide it by the number of employees. You can call that productivity, but it's not really productivity, 'cause productivity, strictly speaking, comes from making increasing output with a set of inputs. So you go from time A to time B, are we making more while keeping all our fixed costs constant? So there are things that get in the way of measuring that and one of the big ones is something called price recovery. So if you look at profitability, it's really a combination of price recovery and productivity. But price recovery would be any change in cost, any kind of financial cost during or between the two periods that you're measuring.   0:02:45.7 JS: So if you've got say the cost of labor, cost of materials, facility costs, energy costs, all these things can change between two time periods. And at the same time, maybe your selling price changes. So it turns out that factoring all those things out is much more difficult than you would think. It doesn't come easily using ERP systems in those things. And one of the pioneers of Lean accounting [0:03:16.8] ____ explained to me how he, when he first realized this, how much work it was to actually just separate all these price recovery factors from the total that contributed to productivity. So it's not that easy to even get to productivity and really get an accurate figure on it.   0:03:39.1 AS: It's interesting. I'm a financial guy, so I look at the P&L all the time of so many companies. So I think I've got some fun stuff that we can talk about, but was there something more you were gonna wrap that up with?   0:03:51.9 JS: Well, yeah, I think what happens with that is you get a sort of a cultural divide, because executives, I'm told, typically see operations as a black box. They'll say, well, okay, someone worries about process and manufacturing process, or it could be in any field. It could be medical, it could be something else, but that's something that operations worries about, so we'll let them do that. So they're left, these executives, with only one language, and that's financial language to understand things. And that's basically the iron law there is you get what you pay for. So we wanna get better quality, okay, we invest in it, that costs money. We wanna get faster delivery times, well, we'll pay money for that. And we wanna lower cost, well, then we better get rid of some people.   0:04:51.7 JS: So these things are all looked at sort of transactionally from the outside, not inside this black box of process. But inside that black box, that's where all the magic happens. That's where the Deming chain reaction happens. The fact that when we invest in quality, costs are gonna go down, but you tell that to an accountant, they'll tell you you're nuts. So it's really, I think there's a big challenge there of getting people to understand that the laws of that really determine productivity are not purely financial. And people need to... I think a lot of people need to broaden their thinking to understand that.   0:05:43.0 AS: Maybe out having looked at the financial statements of thousands of companies and have valued thousands of companies in my life, let's look from a top down, first of all. So people organize, people give money, give capital to companies, because they expect to get some return from that capital. Some people care about what that company does, others don't care, but that's the first step. And so the company gets capital that they deploy and they organize their business however they want, and ultimately they generate revenue. Now, revenue is price times quantity. And I think the first thing that supports what you're talking about is that, if a manager of a company says, our revenue went up 20% last year, and it was all driven by increasing prices only, well, that's... If you could sustain that, that would be fantastic, but it's quite likely when you increase prices, you're gonna have a knock on effect of your demand falling as your competitors have lower prices. But then, what you could say is that that company really didn't change anything about the way it's operating, it's output, it's productivity. Would that be correct in saying that in your mind?   0:06:56.9 JS: Yeah, it would be correct, and I think that a lot of the companies that are protected from... We got stories about this that are protected price wise and are able to kind of raise their prices at will, actually get very sloppy with their operations, and they don't increase their productivity. So I would say to your clients or whoever when you're analyzing that, that what productivity growth will give you is sustainable improvement over time. Productivity is the one thing that every company has control over, and you can control it year after year, but it's long term. It's a long term prospect. So that's... If you're managing quarter by quarter, that's maybe not gonna be so attractive.   0:07:52.0 AS: Yeah. So I think that's a great point about the long-term nature of trying to improve your productivity, because anybody can be a one hit wonder and increase price, let's say, and then tell everybody, "hey, we got more revenue, or we got more profit." Now let's look at the other side. So the P&L, the profit and loss statement, or the income statement is revenue minus costs, equal profit. There's a second aspect, is that a top level executive who come in and say, "I'm slashing the marketing budget, and I'm slashing the cost related to our operations and all that," and in the end, they would get an increased... Increase in profit. But they may get that at the sacrifice of future growth of let's say the image, the brand image of the company as an example, which doesn't necessarily have to do with the black box of actually making the product, but does have to do with creating a bottom line that looks great, but sacrificing the future bottom line. What are your thoughts about that?   0:08:55.1 JS: That's a great point. Yeah, of course, Dr. Deming would tell us to look at the system. They're all interdependent, marketing, sales, production and everything. But when I said black box, I mean, yeah, it does conjure sort of an image of manufacturing, but that same black box thinking, I think needs to spread through the entire company. And some of these really mature companies, Lean companies and Deming companies too, they're thinking everything as within that operational framework. Because it's operations within that, that you have your complex adaptive system. Financial, pure finance is not really in the same way... The laws of finance are not... Don't reflect that kind of complexity.   0:09:45.0 AS: I would like to just define this black box, because what you're... When we think of it of a black box, we think, okay, people just look at it, and they don't really know what's going on inside. But you're saying that that's the way a senior executive oftentimes comes in and they don't even know what's really going on. I remember when I worked for Pepsi in the factory, that the factory manager was even out of touch with what was happening on the floor. He wasn't out there all the time. So when you're talking about black box, you're talking about kind of people looking from the outside in, but inside that black box is where all this productivity work is being done of how do we get more efficient in what we do, use less resources, and get a better outcome? How do we hit the specifications or the desire product that the customer needs. Which is one of the great things about capitalism is that you're actually trying to reduce the resources that you're putting in to create an output.   0:10:43.4 JS: Yeah, exactly. Well, I would expand the black box again. It can be anything, it can be in your accounting department. So the black box really is process. It's the whole concept of process. So it's not a physical entity at all, or a plant floor, it can be everything in the company, but yeah, you can look at... You can take same kind of principles and say, "how come it takes you 10 days to close our books at the end of the month? Can we shrink that down to three?" So we can use the same principles anywhere in the organization. And similarly, we can use these principles in healthcare and services industries and just about anything. So yeah, so the black box is a very conceptual idea.   0:11:33.4 AS: The process, the systems.   0:11:33.4 JS: Yeah.   0:11:37.0 AS: The other thing I always tell my finance students on first day, the first thing I put up on wall, on the board is, "finance adds no value." Which is a very disappointing thing for undergrads in finance. But what I try to show them is that, finance is a feedback. It's a tool for feedback. And the feedback in this case is financial feedback. And with that financial feedback, it's information that the management team can use to create value, to make better decisions, ultimately about the business and what they're doing. And so for those people that think that finance is something that creates value in a business, I always say it's a support function. And when it's done really well, it's a fantastic support function to give feedback of, here is the big picture of what we're producing, whether that's looking at the cost accounting on a production line, or whether that's looking at the overall company. So finance adds no value is one of the things I always say to kind of wake my students up to see that really, finance can be great if it's supporting the CEO and the management team at making good decisions.   0:12:47.8 JS: That's a great point, Andrew. And of course that's said often in the Lean world. When they separate out, muda, which they call waste, they have... Well, they have necessary waste and unnecessary waste. Unnecessary waste is too many steps in a process or whatever, but the necessary waste is things like finance, and it's not just finance, but it's things like having an HR department. Because HR is not actually making any products for your company. So all these support functions, administration, even executive management would be considered to be not adding value in that framework. So I think what you're saying makes perfect sense.   0:13:38.4 AS: I came across a company when I was a young analyst here in Thailand, and it's a factory. And I was looking at the financials, and I was seeing that the profitability was rising quite fast, and the cash conversion cycle basically went negative, which I've never seen a factory have negative cash conversion cycle. So I called up the company and asked if I could come out as a analyst. I went out to visit the CEO and the management team and went around and I asked him, "how did you get your cash conversion cycle to be so low?" He said, "well, we focused on reducing an inventory in our business." And I said, "how long did it take you?" He said, "it took us about five years." And he said, "but I really gave the responsibility to each team leader and each team to think about how they could reduce the inventory in their area."   0:14:27.4 AS: And that was, first of all, a lesson in focus. If you focus on one thing and it's the right thing, let's say, let's assume that was the right thing at that time, you can get there. But the reason why I'm telling you this story is 'cause he told me another thing that was interesting. He said, "we have a... Each area we have a profit and loss statement for, and we try to get people to think about that." But I said, "how do you handle the overhead of management, the cost of management?" He said, "we list out the exact cost of management and we post it on the wall, and then we calculate it per area so that everybody knows how the management cost is hitting their P&L. And then we challenged them to help push us to drive down that overhead." And I was like, that's pretty transparent, I thought, in a Thai factory.   0:15:18.2 JS: Well, that is interesting and I'd be curious. A lot of companies use standard cost accounting and what often happens is inventory actually... When they reduce inventory, that's an asset right? On the balance sheet, and they take a hit from reducing inventory. So I'd like to know how your client dealt with that, or if they had to deal with it.   0:15:42.1 AS: I am not sure how he did the accounting, but I know that many, many companies in Thailand do not use standard cost accounting, just because it's a pretty advanced thing. And I think that they're pretty simple in some of their operations. Not all, but yeah.   0:16:00.8 JS: Yeah. Okay. Well, no, standard cost accounting is just not a good way if you're interested in maximizing your productivity, because it basically hides the... It hides the true cost of inventory. It postpones them to a later year. So when you sell the product, then you're paying the carrying costs of the inventory, which is crazy. So somebody overproduces, they don't take the hit for that.   0:16:25.3 AS: Right. One last thing from me, and then maybe we'll wrap it up by thinking about the takeaway of what we want the listeners to be able to do from this discussion. But I just, since it's myth number two, the myth of the bottom line, I wanna address another myth that I always talk to about my students, and that is that the goal... This is the myth, "the goal of the management is to maximize profit." And I teach my students that if we wanna look at the financial goal of the management of a company, it is not to maximize profit. And if anybody says that, I always stop them and say that "actually, the goal of the management is to maximize value. And value is a function of profit and risk in the calculations that we use in the world of finance." So you can... A manager, two managers of different companies, but let's say competing companies, they could be, one could be getting a huge amount of future cash flows coming in, but they could be doing it through bribery, let's say.   0:17:28.8 JS: Yeah.   0:17:29.6 AS: And that is raising the risk secretly behind the scenes. And so the ultimate, the value that's being created in that company is going to disappear. Another good example is Amazon. When Amazon listed in the stock market, it went seven years with losses. So was it doing the wrong thing? No, it was creating value even though it had loss. So ultimately, the importance is to create value, maximize value, not maximize bottom line. That's kind of me from the top down finance perspective, but what are your thoughts about that?   0:18:08.6 JS: Well, value is tricky. Because it's determined by the customer. So a bunch of things. I always give the example of ballpoint pens because I scribble a lot on my calls with a ballpoint pen, but supposing I'm making 10,000 of these an hour or something, and I up that by 10%, well, that's fine. And with all my machinery, maybe I'm running it faster and I'm using all the same plant, I figured out a way to do that. But what if the productivity, or sorry, the productivity will show as an increase, but what happens if some of those pens skip? I have a quality problem as a result of picking that up. Well, if the pens are not really acceptable to my buyers anymore, then I haven't gained anything. So it shows...   0:19:01.6 JS: So you can't just do a productivity calculation based on numbers that are turning out. You have to maintain that quality and that's not that easy to do. 'Cause it might be that my quality problem is that, I have to increase by 10%, but it's only skipping one out of 10,000 pens or maybe one out of 5,000, but the customer might not care about that, or they might not... They might rather pay a little bit less and have that slight defect. So it's a tricky business, I think, with value, you have to constantly be getting customer feedback, and knowing what the customer needs, what level of quality they need, and making sure that you consistently deliver that. So value, yeah, absolutely.   0:19:55.8 AS: It's a good time to come back to point number one of Dr. Deming's 14 points, which is, "create constancy of purpose towards improvement of product and service with the aim to become competitive, and to stay in business and to provide jobs." And the idea of focusing on improving product and service is the holy grail. If every day, you are working as an organization, as teams, as groups to improve product and service, it's just amazing, and I think that that's where Toyota has been a great example of just relentlessly pursuing that. But let me ask you, how would you sum up what you want people to take away from the myth of the bottom line number one, and what action do you think that they should take as they go back and look at their business or look at their department?   0:20:52.1 JS: I would say stop. First of all, stop pretending that you know everything based on the financials. Go look at, go study Deming principles or learn about what actually happens and how the value is created. Go onto the front lines where value is created. Whatever your company is, study that and start to learn what some of their problems are, and how that affects value. I think there's this... They've said that... It's often said that it's much harder to unlearn things than it is to learn new things. So I don't think it's an easy... I don't think it would be an easy thing to do. It's very convenient to believe that the finances tell you everything, especially if you're outside the company. If you're an investor or you're Wall Street or whatever, and you're providing guidance on companies, telling them that they don't really understand what's driving the value of that company is not a very welcome message. So I think it's it's not easy.   0:22:05.8 AS: I was just reading a book called, "The Six Month Fix" by Gary Sutton, which is a great book about turning around companies, but he has a chapter talking about Hewlett and Packard, the two gentlemen who started Hewlett Packard, but he talked about how they just... They were constantly walking around out in the production area. They were in the maintenance area, they were on the loading dock. They did it at evenings, they did it on weekends, they did it on day... They were just constantly out there. So part of what I'm hearing from you is step back from the financials and get into the operations, see what's happening in the processes, and helping support people to work towards improving the product and service, so that you get a consistent growth in your business that's driven not by like raising prices, but by getting more efficient in what you're doing. That would be kind of how I would summarize the takeaway.   0:23:02.3 JS: Yeah. I think you have to acknowledge that there are people out there on the front lines that are creating the value in your company. And there's a lot you can do to help them as a leader. You can remove roadblocks. And if the company's been running purely on financial metrics, you can bet there are tons of roadblocks and frustrations that these people are seeing. But you can also... Eventually you can create a kind of a culture where people work together. Because as I think we see with Deming, the productivity is a team sport. You really wanna have team productivity, and people working together, not knocking each other down, as we talked about in the sort of the pyramid structure is what people do. You want them working together and leaders can do a great deal to kind of create that culture and lead by example and all those things.   0:24:03.9 AS: Well, that's inspiring. And I know for all of us, the myth of the bottom line, we can get trapped into it at times, particularly when the bottom line's not that strong and times tend to get focused in on it and maybe at the cost of other things, but this is a good reminder for everyone. I'm gonna wrap it up there.   0:24:24.9 JS: Okay.   0:24:26.3 AS: Jacob, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, I wanna thank you again for this discussion. And for listeners, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. You can find Jacob's book "Productivity Reimagined" at jacobstoller.com. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, "People are entitled to joy in work."  

On Episode 25 of After the Breach Podcast, co-hosts Jeff and Sara welcome back their friend and colleague, Gary Sutton. Aside from being a captain in the Salish Sea he has also been working with OceanWise as a researcher and he joins in to talk about the research he's a part of and some exciting upcoming projects. Before they get into that the three discuss the Northern Resident killer whales, which are a salmon-eating population similar to the Southern Resident killer whales that are a frequent topic of conversation. This population spends most of their time in the waters off northern Vancouver Island and along the central coast of British Columbia and even up into Alaska. While they are not infrequent visitors to the most northern reaches of the Salish Sea, the past few weeks have found three matrilines of Northern Resident killer whales visiting the waters of Howe Sound, where Jeff, Sara, and Gary all got to see them. Gary shares some interesting foraging observations about his visit with the A23s, A25s, and A42s, while Jeff and Sara talk about their impromptu visit with them. For Jeff this was a reconnection with a whale that changed his life and for Sara this was her first visit with this ecotype. If you are enjoying listening to our podcast, please share this with your friends, follow/subscribe, and leave us feedback/reviews! You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook and Youtube. Please send us feedback or questions at afterthebreachpodcast@gmail.com.   Links from this episode: Ocean Wise Research on Instagram Gary Sutton on Instagram Orcalab Photos from this episode: Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Sara Shimazu   Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Sara Shimazu   Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Sara Shimazu   Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Sara Shimazu   Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Sara Shimazu   Northern Resident killer whale, A61 "Surge," photo by Jeff Friedman   Northern Resident killer whales in Howe Sound, photo by Jeff Friedman

Private Investigator, Heather Cohen, discusses recent developments into her investigation into the wrongful conviction of Gary Wayne Sutton and a special guest discusses first hand knowledge of the case.

Licensed Private Investigator, Heather Cohen, discusses the findings of her investigation into the wrongful conviction of Gary Sutton/the murders of Tommy Griffin and Connie Branam.

Gary Sutton is the US Firm Business Diversity Leader at Deloitte Consulting. Gary has over 18 years of sourcing and procurement experience, during which he has served more than 40 commercial and public sector clients. In addition to Deloitte, Gary has worked with the Boston Consulting Group and The Hackett Group. He completed his Bachelor's degree in Economics at Howard University and his Master of Business Administration degree at the Fuqua School of Business at Duke University. Gary joins us today to discuss how Deloitte strategizes to procure diverse suppliers systematically. He shares what motivated him to become the Business Development Leader of Deloitte after 13 years of serving as a supply chain consultant. He describes how Deloitte is pursuing its mission to create sustainable wealth for communities of color and women. Gary also explains the role of intent in shaping the future and highlights the business case for supplier diversity in the professional services industry. “Business diversity is about including diverse suppliers across the entire spectrum of what we spend money on and the segments of the economy that are growing the fastest.” - Gary Sutton This week on Breaking Barriers: ●     How Deloitte is making supplier diversity proactive●     The Deloitte strategy to systematically procure diverse suppliers●     Valuing strategic relationships between diverse and non-diverse firms●     The power of targeting start-ups in supplier diversity efforts●     Building better incubator programs and helping diverse suppliers' capacity●     Making the case for supplier diversity in the professional services and consultancy industry Connect with Gary Sutton: ●     Deloitte Consulting●     Deloitte Consulting on LinkedIn●     Deloitte on Facebook●     Deloitte on Instagram●     Deloitte on Twitter●     Deloitte on YouTube●     Deloitte on Glassdoor●     Gary Sutton on LinkedIn This podcast is brought to you by Hire Ground Hire Ground is a technology company whose mission is to bridge the wealth gap through access to procurement opportunities. Hire Ground is making the enterprise ecosystem more viable, profitable, and competitive by clearing the path for minority-led, women-led, LGBT-led, and veteran-led small businesses to contribute to the global economy as suppliers to enterprise organizations. For more information on getting started please visit us @ hireground.io today! If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts | TuneIn | GooglePlay | Stitcher | Spotify Be sure to share your favorite episodes on social media and join us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

Joining us as our guest, from Vancouver Island, is our friend Gary Sutton. Gary is a whale researcher with Ocean Wise Research and Bay Cetology. He is also a professional whale and wildlife guide. After recently returning from his field research season off northeast Vancouver Island and the central BC coast, Gary shares information about the focus of their research and tells some great stories about his time up there. The overarching goal of the research he is working on is to use photogrammetry to take photos and measure cranial fat deposits in Northern Resident killer whales and track changes over time to assess body condition and health. Gary talks about this research and what we can learn about whales using drones to take photos from above.  As we do with all of our guests, we asked Gary to share some memorable encounters from his field season. Gary tells some great stories about seeing bubble-net feeding humpbacks and the first documented sighting of some famous California Bigg's killer whales in the inland waters of BC.  We also discuss the latest sightings, including a new calf with the T37Bs and a rare winter Southern Resident killer whale superpod. We discuss how the Southern Residents are adapting to declines in their preferred prey availability and the changes we are seeing in their distribution and travel patterns. The episode concludes with an email from a listener in response to our discussions about humpbacks intervening in Bigg's killer whale predations on marine mammals. The email points out that hippos have been well documented to interrupt hunts on other animals as well.  If you are enjoying listening to our podcast, please follow/subscribe, leave us feedback/reviews and share with your friends! You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook and Youtube. Please send us feedback or questions at afterthebreachpodcast@gmail.com. For complete show notes, links and photos, please visit our website: https://www.afterthebreachpodcast.com/e/episode-0-orca-research-stories-latest-sightings/   Links mentioned in this episode: Gary on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gary_j27/ Ocean Wise Research on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oceanwiseresearch/ Bay Cetology: https://baycetology.org/ Photos mentioned in this episode: New calf with T37B. Photo by Jeff Friedman

After taking a deep dive into the 1992 case, The State of Tennessee v. Gary Sutton, P.I. Heather Rolling has discovered a number of unsettling problems with the investigation and trial. Now, she and her crime-solving partner are ready to discuss investigative details with the public. Please, join us in our fight for justice which, in this case, is undoing the injustice created in The Wrongful Conviction of Gary Sutton.

Gary Sutton is the US Firm Business Diversity Leader at Deloitte Consulting. Gary has over 18 years of sourcing and procurement experience, during which he has served more than 40 commercial and publi

Gary Sutton is the US Firm Business Diversity Leader at Deloitte Consulting. Gary has over 18 years of sourcing and procurement experience, during which he has served more than 40 commercial and publi

This week we sit down with Olympian Lily Williams who will represent the United States on the Women's Pursuit team. While track cycling is not our typical fare, Lily has a cyclocross background (and a maybe a gravel future).  In addition to representing our country, Lily is the Communications Director of Bike Index.  Lily Williams Instagram USA Cycling Olympic Track Schedule Support the podcast Automated Full Episode Transcription (please excuse the typos): Craig Dalton: [00:00:00]   Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton.  [00:00:10] This week on the podcast, we've got Olympian, Lily Williams, joining the show. Lily's got a bad-ass background as a cyclist particularly as a cyclocross racer after a career as a collegiate runner. [00:00:24]Team. Lily races professionally on the road with the Rally Cycling, [00:00:28]And caught the attention of USA cycling and was brought to Colorado Springs for some performance testing on the track. I'll let her explain what happened next but a pretty amazing journey from someone who just found cycling after college. [00:00:41]Like many professional cyclists, Lily also holds down a full-time job, full disclosure. We work together at the nonprofit bike index. And we'll talk a little bit about that. And the mission bike index is on.    [00:00:54]Before we get started, I needed to thank this week sponsor Athletic Greens, who also happens to be a sponsor of USA cycling.  [00:01:04]Athletic greens is N S F certified for sport. Meaning they take their product seriously. Consistently testing and auditing it to ensure what's on the label is actually in the pouch. As you can imagine, that's critically important for Olympians and professional athletes and gives us average athletes the confidence to know what's going in the body.  [00:01:27]I'm actually drinking my post ride athletic grains right now, my personal way to prepare it. I like two big heaping scoops of ice, and then a heaping spoonful of Athletic Greens.  [00:01:39]Athletic Greens is a complex blend of 75 vitamins minerals, and whole food sourced ingredients. Athletic greens is green powder engineered to help fill the nutritional gaps in your diet. Their daily drink improves everyday performance by addressing the four pillars of health energy recovery gut health and immune support  [00:02:00]I've said it before. I'm a little bit embarrassed at times as to how poor my diet can slide when I get stressed out. But with athletic greens being packed with  for recovery. Probiotics and [00:02:12] Digestive enzymes for gut health, vitamin C and zinc [00:02:17]For immune support, it's just an easy all-in-one solution to help your body meet its nutritional needs. And boy, I could use all the help I can get. My program, I'd take one scoop every morning, and then I'll typically do two glasses on days where I've depleted myself through a big gravel ride. It's keto, paleo vegan. Dairy-free and gluten-free. All in a drank with less than one gram of sugar that tastes great over ice . [00:02:45]So, whether you're looking to boost your energy levels, support your immune system or address gut health. Now's the perfect time to try athletic greens for yourself. Simply visit athletic greens.com/the growl ride to claim my special offer today and receive free. K-12 wellness bundle with your first purchase.  [00:03:05] That's up to a one-year supply of vitamin D as an added value. When you try, they're delicious and comprehensive daily, all in one drink. You'd be hard pressed to find a more comprehensive nutritional bundle anywhere else. Again, that's athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. Would that business of supporting our sponsors behind us. Let's jump right in to my conversation with Olympian Lily Williams.  lily. Welcome to the show.  [00:03:31]Lily Williams: [00:03:31] Hey Craig. Thanks for having me  [00:03:33]Craig Dalton: [00:03:33] Our weekly calls. Aren't enough , Lily and I work together at the nonprofit bike index. [00:03:38] So we are in frequent communication.  [00:03:40]Lily Williams: [00:03:40] It's true, but nonetheless, I'm happy to be here.  [00:03:42] Craig Dalton: [00:03:42] And in the context of this conversation, huge congratulations for being selected to the Olympic team for the United States.  [00:03:49]Lily Williams: [00:03:49] Thank you. Yeah. So exciting. How many people have told me I'm fulfilling a dream and I'm just like, forget how  [00:03:56] cool it is. [00:03:57] Craig Dalton: [00:03:57] I think it's absolutely amazing. And I'm one of those people who constantly feels the need to remind you what an amazing journey you've been on.  [00:04:04]Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. For the  [00:04:08] listener. I want to be clear, unfortunately, this is not the Olympic gravel cycling team.  [00:04:12]Lily Williams: [00:04:12] Not yet, but what might  [00:04:15] Craig Dalton: [00:04:15] happen? [00:04:15] This is the Olympic pursuit team on the track.  [00:04:19]Lily Williams: [00:04:19] Yes. Yeah. Which is about as far from a gravel race as you can get. But that doesn't mean I don't have a passion for all things off-road as well.  [00:04:27] Craig Dalton: [00:04:27] Is this true? And we will get to this Lilly. There is a tie into gravel cycling and dirt riding. For Lily. And we'll get to that. [00:04:36] In fact, where I wanted to start the conversation. I know you were a division one runner in college and transitioned and went into grad school, found the bike, but why don't we start there on your journey about where you started riding the bike, what you started getting excited about. And then we have to, for the listener, figure out a way to show them how you ended up. [00:04:56] Being on the Olympic track team of all things.  [00:04:58]Lily Williams: [00:04:58] Yeah. That might be worth some explaining. Yeah, so I started, I got my first bike as an adult, I think my sophomore year of undergrad. Maybe no, it was my freshman year of undergrad and I just had a bike that I was riding around campus. And then I was running track and cross country for my university. [00:05:14] And anytime we had an off week, I would ride my bike around town. So I definitely really enjoyed. Riding the bike, didn't wear a helmet or flip flops. Wasn't a cyclist, just was a person, bobbing around getting to the grocery store. And then I moved to Chicago for graduate school. [00:05:30]And that's where I really started writing. I started working at a bike shop and got a road bike and pimped out my computer so that I could get to and from class, which was downtown and I lived in the north. Northern part of the city. Yeah, I really started as a commuter, even though I was an athlete before in a different sport. [00:05:48]And then, because I was working at a bike shop, my coworkers coerced me into trying to become an athlete again. So that's where it started in 2016. So as I  [00:05:58] Craig Dalton: [00:05:58] understand it, your collegiate running career was. Maybe challenging for you in terms of what you thought it was going to be and what it turned out to be. [00:06:07] Were you looking for another athletic career at this point?  [00:06:11]Lily Williams: [00:06:11] No, my collegiate sport experience was pretty terrible. And a lot of it was just like me not knowing how to balance being basically a full-time athlete, which is what division one athletes are and getting, going to school and not failing. [00:06:24]And I also just yeah, socially, there's so much fun things to do at school. And you just find a way to prioritize the thing you like the least, which at that time was sports for me. So I was pretty ready to not be an athlete ever again. When I went to grad school and that lasted all of four months before I found cycling. [00:06:42] Craig Dalton: [00:06:42] So you found cycling at the, you said in the context of a road bike, but quickly discovered that cyclocross was an interesting part of the sport for you.  [00:06:51]Lily Williams: [00:06:51] Yeah because I was living in Chicago people may know that the Chicago cyclocross cup is a pretty big deal. There's a bunch, I can't remember how many, 10 ish race, weekends, all within driving distance of city throughout the course of the fall and winter. [00:07:06] And the money's really good and the it's just a really good time. And the competition is pretty good. And quickly started borrowing a demo bike from the shop that I was worked on. Shop that I was working at and was taking it to cyclocross practices in town just after class, just to, I don't know, just hang out with people and have a good time. [00:07:28]And then doing the races to have a good time as well. And I started having a lot of success in cyclocross, at least locally which kind of motivated me to want to try to do some of the bigger events as well.  [00:07:40] Craig Dalton: [00:07:40] And so you use that. Springboard. And I think you had mentioned there was a really good shop in Chicago land that leans into cyclocross and had a good team that you could get to be a part of. [00:07:52]Lily Williams: [00:07:52] Yeah, 100%. So initially I was aware being at Turin bicycle, which is a shop in Ravenswood, which is the neighborhood I was living in. And then I did just a season with the club team based out of Turin which is called bonkers cycling. And. Then I also did a few races for Northwestern because I was at Northwestern for school and was able to compete and cross and on the road and cyclocross for Northwestern. [00:08:18]And then that would have been in winter of 20 16, 20 17. And then my partner and I at the time wanted to do a full UCI calendar of cyclocross the next winter. And we approached the pony shop, which is in Evanston, which is the city immediately north. Of Chicago and they hooked us up. [00:08:37] They helped us get all of our equipment and kit and race entries and everything. And we just jumped head first into a full UCI calendar. And it was awesome. Like we got on some podiums and we got UCI points and it was really fun, a fun program. That's still going by the way and is growing. [00:08:54]Craig Dalton: [00:08:54] That's amazing. I remember getting introduced to the idea that Lily is going to be my coworker. And I think our coworker south basically said that Lily she's based in Chicago, she likes, she races. Cyclocross was very sort of unassuming introduction. Given what you've subsequently been able to achieve. [00:09:15]Lily Williams: [00:09:15] Yeah Seth and I, we just bombed around town and had a good time. And at the point that I knew Seth in Chicago, we didn't really I did not have any aspirations to be a professional athlete. I was really just looking to meet new people and enjoy like exercising for fun, crazy concept. And yeah, over the years, even since you and I have been working together, I think it's changed quite a bit into something a little more serious than what it was initially. [00:09:39]But yeah, I thought I was going to full gossipy, a cyclocross, a pro, and race in Europe and be sick over there. So things have just changed drastically, as you may assume, have assumed.  [00:09:50] Craig Dalton: [00:09:50] And after those results in 2018, you signed on board with rally cycling on the road.  [00:09:57]Lily Williams: [00:09:57] Is that right? In 2017, late 2017. [00:10:01] So I had already done. Oh man. I'm like already losing sense of the timeline. It's been four years and I can't even remember what I've done. In, so even before I had really done a full UCI cross calendar, I had been racing on the road and doing all the professional road races. And so in 2017 I reached out to Hoggins Berman Supermint and then signed with them for 2018. [00:10:26]As my first pro road contract. And then, so before I ever raced with Superman, I did after I signed, but before I raced, I did a full winter of cyclocross racing for the pony shop. Yeah. And then the following the subsequent year, I continued with the pony shop and did another full season of UCI cyclocross and one of my first UCI race. [00:10:44]And then after 2019 Superman, I signed with rally cycling for 2020 cause Superman folded.  [00:10:54] Craig Dalton: [00:10:54] Gotcha. And at what point did you start getting the interest from USA cycling to introduce this idea of riding on the track?  [00:11:01]Lily Williams: [00:11:01] Yeah, so it seemed so you got a new women's endurance head coach for the track program after Rio. [00:11:09] And his name is Gary Sutton. So he's our coach now. And he was just bringing people in from the road since he got to the U S so the team was really strong. They were defending world champions, Olympic silver medalist. But Sarah Hamer, who was one of their key riders retired. And there were just a few spots that they needed to fill. [00:11:25]So he was bringing people in just based on who was doing well on the road. So in late 2018, so this would have been after cyclocross nationals, two of 2018. So the first one was in January and Louisville, Kentucky, or excuse me, Reno, Nevada. And then the second one was in December in Louisville. I flew two days after Louisville out to Colorado Springs to do some testing as one of many people. [00:11:50]And then realized I might be able to be good enough and then started pretty heavily coming to the track starting early 2019. So I was coming to Colorado Springs for camps once a month, at least before my first race in July of 2019,  [00:12:06] Craig Dalton: [00:12:06] the identification testing look like. So you go to Colorado Springs and they make you do something. [00:12:10] What do they make you do? And what are they looking for?  [00:12:12]Lily Williams: [00:12:12] I was like, yeah. So I was trying specifically for the team pursuit. Like I knew that going in because I'm literally,  [00:12:20] Craig Dalton: [00:12:20] why did you know that? I'm just curious.  [00:12:21]Lily Williams: [00:12:21] I guess I didn't really know that I just assumed that, but I was a 1500 meter runner in college, which is a four-ish minute event, like four minutes. [00:12:30] 20 seconds or whatever. And then the team pursuit, the world record is like a four, 10, great Britain has it. So I knew that there was an event that was similar to what I would be doing. And then I came to USA to the us Olympic training center and did some power or testing on a watt bike. So I did like a sick test, 32nd test, four minute test, just to see where you are. [00:12:53] I think my six second test was the worst test they'd ever recorded. And then my four minute test was like the best test they'd ever written. So they were like, there's something here. We don't know what it is. And then when I got on the track, so I actually wrote the track. They put me on a pursuit bike. [00:13:08] So with the arrow from run end and I was doing pursuit specific efforts, just like riding the bike behind the motors. The motor and then like doing some flying 32nd efforts, ish, just to see how quickly I can cover ground without falling off the bike was of course I'd never written one before. [00:13:23]So yeah, it was like two or three days. And then they were like, if you want to come back we'd love to have you, but obviously, like you have to want to do it. And at that point it would require me giving up my cross program and potentially missing a lot of road, which I ended up doing. But yeah, so it's been pretty full gas since. [00:13:39] Probably January of 2019.  [00:13:41] Craig Dalton: [00:13:41] Yeah. I can only imagine how challenging it was getting on a track bike for the first time.  [00:13:46]Lily Williams: [00:13:46] I guess that's not really a true rule. I have written it Northbrook, which is the velodrome. And once again, just north of Chicago, but just two or three times, just for the summer series. [00:13:55]I borrowed one of the bikes they have at the track. I had no idea what gear was going on it, I think I probably switched the seat height between me and my friend riding the same bike the same night. So I didn't really know what I was doing. I was just like, I'd been on a bike, but not really. [00:14:12] Then I remember  [00:14:13] Craig Dalton: [00:14:13] you got to try over the course of our relationship. You would ask for things like, Hey, I need to reschedule a call because I'm going to be in Lima, Peru, and then you'd come back and say, oh, we won this medal. And then you said, Hey, I have to go to Berlin and not knowing the track schedule as well as I might know, road scheduling. [00:14:33] I didn't realize it was the world championship. And lo and behold, I see. Oh, I came back with the gold medal, wearing the rainbow striped Jersey on the track.  [00:14:43]Lily Williams: [00:14:43] Yeah. I remember that night I was in bed in the hotel doing some work and you were like can you just stop and go celebrate for a little bit? [00:14:51]I'm busy. I have to answer my email. Yeah, it's cryptic, especially in the U S where there really aren't that many velodromes to race on. I don't think people, I certainly didn't know what. What I was doing or what track cycling was about. And it was only until I started going to the world cups, which I got pretty fast tracked into. [00:15:07] Did I see what a track cycling is and it's the, how it's popular in other countries and what events there are. But yeah, we've gone to some interesting places. We spent 10 days in Cochabamba, Bolivia, which was that like 10,000 feet for a race. So it's kinda cool.  [00:15:23] Craig Dalton: [00:15:23] And for clarity, you race on a four woman pursuit team. [00:15:28] Can you talk about those team dynamics and what you're looking for? Because I know over the process of the Olympic selection process, there were multiple women vying for spots, and I'm imagining as a coach, you're trying to factor in certain things. I'd be curious, like what things were they trying to factor in? [00:15:44] And what's important in the dynamic between you and the other athletes.  [00:15:48]Lily Williams: [00:15:48] Yeah, that's a great question. So you're right. It's four people and you basically just want to maximize the four that you have. So everyone in the group is going to be doing something a little bit different from, starting position one to starting position four, or, if you're Chloe you're spending the last three laps on the front, when someone else in line might only be able to do. [00:16:11] Three laps, total of the race. So you really have to maximize the four that you have in a combination. That's going to be the most effective and that's completely different for every team and is completely different depending on the combination of riders that you have. We set out a schedule the night before, or the morning of the race and say, this is where you're going to start. [00:16:29] This is how much time you're going to spend on the front. We like go over our communication strategy because things can always go wrong and you have to be able to tell whoever's on the front, what's happening three wheels back. And then we'll have the coach walking the line on a certain pace. [00:16:43] So we always know where we are relative to the other team. And we always know exactly what pace we're riding to equate or the final time. So for something that's relatively simple there's quite a bit that goes into it. And there were seven women on it. The team pursuit, long team and five women were selected. [00:17:03]So even though it seems like there were a pretty, if you were on the long team, you had a pretty good shot of making it even getting on the long team was a big challenge because you had to either have podium at a world cup or written a certain time standard. It was definitely a tight selection. [00:17:19]Craig Dalton: [00:17:19] Within there are limits to figure out how to phrase this. So for clarity, everybody in this particular event needs to finish at the same time. So your time is taken on the last rider going across the line.  [00:17:30]Lily Williams: [00:17:30] Yes. So you start with four and you only have to finish three writers. So for most countries the starter who does the most work at the beginning of the race does not finish. [00:17:40]Our starter is a woman named Jen Valente, who Usually finishes the ride. She's pretty good. So is there a benefit  [00:17:47] Craig Dalton: [00:17:47] for her hanging on throughout the rest of the ride?  [00:17:49]Lily Williams: [00:17:49] Not necessarily, but she's good enough at it that she can still do more with the start. Those of us who are newer and not quite so strong. [00:17:57]So it, the time is taken on the third rider across the line. So in theory, you're. Your three writers come across at the same time, you like fan up and all right across the line together. Sometimes it goes wrong. Somebody gets dropped or you crash or something. So you start four, but time has taken on three. [00:18:14] Craig Dalton: [00:18:14] And so that starter that you alluded to with maybe slightly different physiology, is it just sheer power and Watts to get up to the speed? The team needs as quickly as possible.  [00:18:23]Lily Williams: [00:18:23] Jen is the best starter in the world. She has a really, she's probably got the longest track background of anyone on the team. [00:18:28]She definitely does. And she is has a history in doing the sprint events too. So she's by far the quickest of all of us over the, just getting out of the gate and getting us up to speed. The us will typically start almost a second faster than. Some most of the other teams, which is not insignificant when races are won by tenths of seconds,  [00:18:50] Craig Dalton: [00:18:50] your stacks up the track and she starts, and then you've got, obviously everybody else is starting at the same time. [00:18:56] And you've got to, you've got to tuck in. If Chloe is your cleanup batter, so to speak, is she expanding a little less energy at the start? Because she can fade into the fourth slot.  [00:19:07]Lily Williams: [00:19:07] No, because she normally, yeah, I'll start second, which is the second most challenging position because you're getting up to speed basically at the same pace as the starter, and then the starter pulls off and you have to do your turn immediately. [00:19:20] Whereas say at worlds, I started in fourth position. I had three people's terms before I had to take my first turn, so I could settle into the ride and then do my turn. Whereas someone like Chloe, who is. Next level world-class she can do the star behind, P one and then also, take her pole right away without any recovery. [00:19:41] Craig Dalton: [00:19:41] Okay. And then as far as when you peel off from the front, how many rotations would you typically get in an event?  [00:19:47]Lily Williams: [00:19:47] It usually it totally depends. We've tried a bunch of different structures, I think. If you look at any of our footage from past races, normally we do two to three on the front depending on where you start in line. [00:19:59]So for me, it's always been two. I think I'll be able to contribute quite a bit more after an additional year of training, but traditionally the races I've done, I would take two turns on the front.  [00:20:10] Craig Dalton: [00:20:10] And is it you, I think you mentioned that is likely decided the morning of the event via your coach and you're just following a plan. [00:20:18] Lily Williams: [00:20:18] Yeah. It's pretty much based. Yeah. It's based on a plan that's laid out. We have some input as well if we want. Which is really nice because I think of course we all know each other in our own bodies very well. And yeah, the structure as we call it, or the schedule is usually not. Sent out until pretty close to race time. [00:20:35]Which is good. I think it minimizes the stress of thinking about it and it always is very logical. There's never anything crazy in it. Like they would never say Lilly are doing the eight laps in the middle of the race. So we all know what is going to happen? How many  [00:20:49] Craig Dalton: [00:20:49] laps total are we talking about? [00:20:50]Lily Williams: [00:20:50] So a track is a track that we would race on is 250 meters. And we'll do 16 laps. From a standing start. So it's four kilometers total for the team  [00:21:01] Craig Dalton: [00:21:01] pursuit. Another team on the other side of the track starting at the same time, right?  [00:21:06] Lily Williams: [00:21:06] Or is that not the case? Yeah, so to, to confuse it even more, there were three rounds in the first round is called qualifying in. [00:21:14] The second round is called first round. The third round is called finals, but qualifying is just for time. So the, at the Olympics there'll be eight teams. And you will all ride individually with no other team on the track to set a time. And then they seed you based on the time that you have written and qualifying. [00:21:35] So there's a there's then three man, and I really don't even know, like I really should know this. But then there are then in first round, they race, I believe they race first and fourth from qualifying together against each other. And the winner of that ride goes onto the gold medal round and then they race second and third in the winner of that ride also goes on to the gold medal round. [00:21:59] And then whoever gets S whoever gets seconds in the, yeah. [00:22:07]Yeah. I really don't even know. I'll be honest with you. I know that. I know how you get to the gold medal round, but I don't really know how you get to the silver or to the bronze metal round, so I never have to learn it. But yeah. And then they'll slot the fourth, fastest time from quals in or a fourth fastest time from first round in to the final in that bronze medal ride, I think, or maybe from the non. [00:22:34] Yeah, but I don't know.  [00:22:35] Craig Dalton: [00:22:35] So I'm curious, you mentioned something about being able to take clues from your coaches about the timing. Are they flashing you up, assign each lap about where you're at?  [00:22:45]Lily Williams: [00:22:45] He'll stand on the line that we started. So if he's in front of the line, it means we're going too slow and he's behind the line. [00:22:51] It means that we're up. There'll be different things. It's a different part of the race. So like the first part of the race, he'll be standing on the line based on the time that we set for ourselves. And then later on, he'll be walking the line based on how far ahead or behind we are the opposite team. [00:23:04] So yes, as I forgot to mention, quals is an individual just for time ride. And then first round and finals are with another team on the track. So you are thus pursuing each other.  [00:23:16] Craig Dalton: [00:23:16] So for that qualifying round, you presumably the coach has in his or her head, this is the time we need to hit in order to seed ourselves one or two or whatever you're going for  [00:23:27]Lily Williams: [00:23:27] in theory. [00:23:28] But it always ends up just being full gas. If we were really up in. Calls is always full gas. Cause you want to set the fastest time because you want to automatically be seated in a first round ride. That'll get you into the gold medal final. Yeah. And then first round you definitely, all you have to do is beat the other team to move on, but at the same time you are still going pretty much full gas because it's hard to beat the other team, there's not as much strategy in it as you would think. And then of course finals is full gas too. So it's it's pretty much three. Three, all out rides. That seems  [00:23:58] Craig Dalton: [00:23:58] what I could imagine. It's just, you're going to be going hard and fast and it's hard to take it up to the next level. Even if someone's saying you have to, because you're behind. [00:24:08] Lily Williams: [00:24:08] Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because calls is first as one day. So you do that and then you know where you're at. And then first round and finals are on a together on another day. And when we won worlds in Berlin first round felt easy. Like we, four of us finished and we were all just this is interesting. [00:24:25] And so we moved, went into the final feeling, pretty confident. Even though sometimes it feels easy, but you're really still going very hard and accumulating fatigue. But yeah, you kinda just have to take it one round at a time. Yeah. That's  [00:24:37] Craig Dalton: [00:24:37] interesting. Are there, which countries are you looking out for the most in terms of competition for the Tokyo Olympics? [00:24:43]Lily Williams: [00:24:43] So great Britain has won great Britain, won London and Rio, and the U S got second in London and Rio. And then we won worlds and great Britain was second, which is what happened before Rico as well. So the U S women were world champions, and then I got to great Britain at the Olympics. So we know that great Britain always comes to the Olympics prepared like they do a full four year cycle with the really, the only goal of winning an Olympic gold. [00:25:07] So they're certainly the ones who are on paper, the best to be. But Germany set a pretty fast time at worlds as well. So we know that they have at least one really fast time in them Oz Australia or the world champions in 2019. I'm sure they will be on good form. And knowing our coach, Gary, who came from Australia knowing how good of a coach he is, you have to assume that. [00:25:28]Whoever is coaching those women now also knows how to make them best. And then New Zealand is very fast. They almost broke the world record in 2020, and rumor has it that they almost broke it again in training this year or at nationals or something. And then Frank, it's had a couple of really fast rides two years ago. [00:25:47] So there is really, the eight teams that are there are really. All metal capable on Canada. Canada got bronze in in Rio and consistently podium at world cups. So there's a lot,  [00:26:02] Craig Dalton: [00:26:02] it sounds like you're going to be looking over your shoulder at basically everybody who's on the opposing end of the track. [00:26:07]Lily Williams: [00:26:07] Pretty much. Yeah. I'm trying not to get overwhelmed by how stressful it is, but I also feel very confident in our group. I take a lot of solace in that. And I  [00:26:17] Craig Dalton: [00:26:17] believe I saw from our friends that felt that they've got a pretty sweet track bike for you guys to race.  [00:26:23]Lily Williams: [00:26:23] Yeah. So they built it for Rio. [00:26:26]And it's left side drive. And sometimes I pull out my road bike, my normal felt road bike. And I'm like, why is the crank on this side? And then I remember that's what a normal bike is like. Yeah, so it. Pretty much the same as a regular track bike, but in theory, the left side drive decreases drag because it's traveling the shorter there's drag on a shorter distance, if that makes sense. [00:26:45] So the inside of the track is shorter than farther up on the track. So if you have the cranks or if you have the crank set on the inside the drive train, then it's spending less time in the wind. And we have some other secret stuff that we're developing on the bikes right now, or just fitting the bikes out with. [00:27:05]It's going to be exciting. Everyone shows up at the Olympics with at least so I've heard because I've never been with crazy new bikes and equipment and skin suits. And it's people don't realize that track cycling like the cutting edge of all of this arrow stuff that USU and the. [00:27:20] Are you shun in the gravel world? But a lot of it's pretty, pretty cool. And arrow bars are, people are using arrow bars on the gravel now, too, so I can empathize.  [00:27:29] Craig Dalton: [00:27:29] Yeah. It's definitely one of those things I always look out for when the Olympics come around to see what kind of snazzy new tech or bike is going to be introduced. [00:27:37] I know as you mentioned, the UK always seems to introduce new, fast looking bikes. And that felt like with the drive train on the other side is just But when you talk about marginal gains, like that little bit of moving it from one side or the other.  [00:27:49] Lily Williams: [00:27:49] Yeah. Yeah. We're talking like half of 1%. [00:27:52] So in my opinion, I'm just like, okay, I'm going to work so hard that none of those one percents matter, so that nothing can go wrong and I don't have to think about anything else. But they make a big difference. They all add up and especially when you're trying to get an Olympic medal, you really have no room to let other teams. [00:28:07]Take extra from you where you could be doing the same thing. Yeah. I  [00:28:11] Craig Dalton: [00:28:11] mean, we want all you athletes to feel fast in your clothing, your bikes, your helmets, everything, right?  [00:28:17]Lily Williams: [00:28:17] Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot of thought that goes into it. I don't think people realize quite how much time and money and energy is spent on making sure we have the best of everything. [00:28:28] Yeah.  [00:28:28]Craig Dalton: [00:28:28] It's going to be awesome. I'm excited. I'll put links to where people can watch the stream. I think I looked it up correctly. Is August 2nd sound right? For one of the start of the events. Yeah. And it sounds like it's going to be around 11:30 PM. Pacific time to watch.  [00:28:43]Lily Williams: [00:28:43] I hope so. I looked it up on NBC. [00:28:46] I'm not sure it'll even be aired because most people are at once again are like, what is track cycling? But hopefully, especially if. We have multiple events that are metal capable. NBC has some incentive to yeah. Just show it. Exactly.  [00:28:58] Craig Dalton: [00:28:58] There's nothing worse than my, my, my past when I've stayed up at night to watch something on the Olympics and they're covering something totally different than the sport that I wanted to see. [00:29:07] Lily Williams: [00:29:07] It's like a question or something and you're like, dang it. Yeah. But this is going to be awesome. Olympic trials yesterday. It's finally happening. It's  [00:29:15] Craig Dalton: [00:29:15] exciting. Definitely. Wow. I'm excited to be along for the ride with you. I know you've worked tremendously hard to get to this point and we've already said we don't want you working on bike index stuff while you're over there. [00:29:28] Yeah.  [00:29:28]Lily Williams: [00:29:28] Yeah. We'll try. I'll try really hard. I'm going to have to shut down slack and some other things are also being really tempted. I get on and talk to you guys.  [00:29:36] Craig Dalton: [00:29:36] If it's relaxing, talk to us. If not we'll survive.  [00:29:40]Lily Williams: [00:29:40] Yeah. Sometimes it's so nice to have a tie to normalcy. I'll be perfectly honest when all you've done is be at the track all day. [00:29:46] And you just want to talk to someone about something that isn't splits or which drink mix to put in your bottle or which gear to put on the bike or whatever. Yeah. So  [00:29:55]Craig Dalton: [00:29:55] In what may seem like a giant leap for the listener bike index is a nonprofit where a stolen bike, sorry, where a bicycle registry and stolen bike recovery platform. [00:30:06] So at its basic level, You register your bike, it's free to use. You can do that as a, as an owner. You can do it a lot of times, right? At the shop level when you purchase your bike. But the really interesting things that Lily and I get to see are on the stolen bike recovery side. And I thought it might be fun just to share a couple of stories of some of our favorite recoveries that we've seen on bike index. [00:30:29]Lily Williams: [00:30:29] Yeah. I'll steal our favorite one. We have recovered a bike that somebody reported stolen on bike index when they were an undergraduate. I think in Iowa, I think at Iowa state or a university or some, one of the universities in Iowa, and then. I think it was six or eight years later, they were back at the same school for their medic getting their medical degree. [00:30:51] And they recovered the bike that they had reported stolen when they were there for undergrad. So that was a pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's always  [00:30:59] Craig Dalton: [00:30:59] incredible. Basically once it's indicated as stolen on the platform, it's just going to sit there. And as a nonprofit, we've got a pretty wide community of volunteers that are looking out for it. [00:31:10]If they see something that's. Listed on offer up or Craigslist or Facebook marketplace. That looks too good to be true. Oftentimes our volunteers will just check bike index and be able to reconnect with the owner and at least give them a heads up. Hey, I think we've seen your bike here, or I think it's being sold there and it gives you a fighting chance to recover your bike. [00:31:29]Lily Williams: [00:31:29] Yeah, 100% or recovery rate is growing from around 10%, which is the highest reported recovery rate of any registration service. And yeah, not only volunteers, but law enforcement officers and members of the community of which we have hundreds of thousands are all looking out for stolen bikes and sending messages to people just out of the goodness of their hearts about. [00:31:53] If they see your stolen bike somewhere, they can let you know where it might be, so you can recover it. So it's pretty successful.  [00:32:00] Craig Dalton: [00:32:00] And while we can't talk about the details in this context and listener, I do trust that you won't you won't share this too widely until we tell you it's available, but we have been tracking this absolutely massive theft ring ranging all the way from Northern California. [00:32:16] Into Mexico and we've traced over $500,000 worth of bikes to one seller. We've got active police investigations in a number of different cities and counties in California that are all triangulating around this same effort. We've got a national publication. That's been following it along with our partner who focuses on stolen bike recovery. [00:32:38] And it's going to be the biggest bicycle theft ring I think ever uncovered in the United States.  [00:32:44]Lily Williams: [00:32:44] Yeah. Pay attention. But like that really galvanizes people, I think when you rely on your bike as transportation or your way to get to work or your sole opportunity for recreation it's really a problem. [00:32:55] And hopefully it, we are here to make it better. Yes.  [00:32:58] Craig Dalton: [00:32:58] So thank you for your continued efforts on that behalf, Lily.  [00:33:01]Lily Williams: [00:33:01] Of course,  [00:33:03] Craig Dalton: [00:33:03] but time to focus on the Olympics, we have high expectations for you. We can't wait. We're all standing at your back and I appreciate you sharing with our listeners. I'm sharing this because you started in the dirt. [00:33:15] You're going to go into metals. I think you're going to come back to the dirt and we're going to see you at some of these big events in the future.  [00:33:21]Lily Williams: [00:33:21] I think you're probably right. I've paid close attention to a lot of them. And I'm just wondering, like when I'm going to bite the bullet and do Unbound or one of the other big races domestically or as I was telling Craig earlier pseudo dirt, Go over to Europe and hopefully rice, the first ever women's Perry Ruby in a few months here, if my team rally cycling gets the invite. [00:33:43]So yeah, I did one gravel race in 2017. I did Barry Ruby up in Michigan. And it was for reasoning. It was like 40 degrees and raining, so it wasn't cold enough for it to be snow. And it was just wet and miserable the whole time. But I did win. So I think that I will come back at some point and I'll probably bring the arrow bar. [00:34:04] Craig Dalton: [00:34:04] Oh, controversy right there.  [00:34:07]Lily Williams: [00:34:07] I feel like that's an old controversy now. There's always something new and arrow bars are just like part of the litany.  [00:34:14] Craig Dalton: [00:34:14] Yeah, exactly. Cool. Thanks for all the time today, Lily. I appreciate it.  [00:34:18]Lily Williams: [00:34:18] Yeah. Thanks Craig. It's good to talk to you as always.  [00:34:22] [00:34:22] Craig Dalton: [00:34:22] Huge. Thanks to Lily for joining us on the show this week. I'm so proud of her for making the Olympic team and so excited for the women's track team in Tokyo. Her event is starting on August 2nd, Monday, August 2nd, the first rounds, and then the finals will be on August 3rd. [00:34:42]Make sure. And send USA cycling and Lily, your support over social media. I'll put her handles. In the show notes. I know it can be funky finding cycling on the streaming and television networks. But do what you can. I think for the USA cycling program. We've got a great shot at gold in the women's pursuit. and i can't wait to follow the journey. [00:35:03] [00:35:03]Thanks again to this week's sponsor athletic greens. Remember visit athletic greens.com/the gravel ride to obtain that special offer. And thank you. Thank you for all the new members. Thank you for all my one-time supporters. When you visit, buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride, that's your way to directly support what we're doing over here at the podcast. We couldn't be doing what we're doing without the support of members. Like you.  [00:35:32] And also the generous sponsors from the industry. And outside the industry.  [00:35:38]One final ask would be, if you have a friend or a group of friends that are getting into gravel cycling, please share the gravel ride podcast with them. I'm endeavoring to create a body of work. That'll take a new rider on a journey and take an experienced rider through some deep dives. We want to create content that just helps people stay stoked.  [00:35:57] On the sport of gravel cycling. Until we speak again. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels

In this episode we interviewed wild life photographers and educators Gary Sutton and Tasli Shaw discussed their role in conservation through photography, education and art. They share their thoughts on the whale watch industry, environmental stressors impacting the souther residents as well as personal experiences.

Ramesh Raghavan is currently the vice chairman of Business Angel Network of Southeast Asia (bansea), one of the leading and oldest organizations of its kind in Asia, as well as an early-stage venture investor and advisor in several start-ups. He is an advisor on risk management in traditional public market investments and alternative investments to family offices and emerging hedge funds. Ramesh previously held global leadership roles in derivatives, capital markets, and sales and trading with Morgan Stanley and the Royal Bank of Scotland and has worked in New York, London, Hong Kong and Singapore. Prior to his career in investment banking, he had a fast-moving consumer goods and commodity trading career with multinational corporations. Ramesh holds an MBA from the London Business School, a Masters in International Business from the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade and a Mechanical Engineering degree from India’s oldest technical institution, the College of Engineering, Guindy, Chennai, India.     Worst investment ever  Investor takes first flight as an angel   Ramesh’s first taste of angel investing happened about 12 years ago when a former college friend approached him to invest in an “execution-type business” that seemed interesting even though it was not a fundamentally new idea. Ramesh listened because the guy had been the smartest person in the room at university and had a good work history with large multinational companies. So Ramesh decided to invest his own funds and gather an investing syndicate together because he believed in the person more than the actual idea.   ‘Too many generals and not enough soldiers’ raises first red flag  After a few months, red flags began to appear. Ramesh couldn’t see any traction. Communications were worse than the usual poor information flow from start-ups. He couldn’t get clear answers when he wanted to know what was happening with the business, and something he has learned with angel investing since is that people tend to take the money for their business and disappear, only reporting good news and failing to provide updates on the bad. Being responsible to his investor syndicate, Ramesh urged his friend to tell him what was happening and if there were any problems. Finally, he then insisted to see the business plan in which he noticed there were eight co-founders, when three or maybe four should be the maximum. That said, he stressed that there should be one “chief”. He also noticed that all these co-founders had significant multinational experience but that nobody was doing the job. Everyone wanted to get paid but nobody wanted to actually do anything. They lacked the inability to actually get down, roll up their sleeves and actually do stuff.   Time to trim inactive ‘leaders’  Ramesh’s first advice was to fire the loafers and change the whole business model. As the company was not making money, the significant salaries had to be cut to zero. If nobody liked it, Ramesh told his friend they should leave. His friend was unhappy, but after months of pushing, the friend managed to get rid of two co-founders. But issues remained. The company’s leaders still had no key action areas for which each person was responsible. So Ramesh worked with him, nearly four or five hours a session, over about six weeks to figure out how to help him create a viable potential business plan that including setting out key responsibilities for each of the co-founders, who were visibly unhappy at the prospect of doing some actual work.   Remaining team fails to listen to chief advisor   After a lot of prodding and mental anguish, Ramesh’s friend introduced him to the remaining co-founders and they found someone able to be best pitch person from the team to raise more capital, which, after a few months, they were fortunate enough to do. This gave them some breathing room. A lot of the time though, Ramesh began to realize that the team would say yes, but they would never take his advice. So the traction was very poor and he learned that it didn’t matter what he said, the red flags were clear. Ramesh also advised his friend that if the current business was not working (which it wasn’t) in the current state of the market, they should pivot the business. The friend was so stuck on his idea that he thought pivoting meant accepting failure, despite Ramesh telling him that every start-up pivots every other day. Great idea do not just take people to success in a straight line.   Investor becomes CEO and tells everyone to adapt or die  It was at this point, Ramesh took over as CEO. He had to put his foot down with the board and the team and say if they were not on board with pivoting, they should leave. After that, two other co-founders did just that which left the company with a team of the ideal size, three or four co-founders. Salaries were slashed and Ramesh had to point out that “entrepreneurship is not a salary-collection business model”. Ramesh said that despite being friends he had to be frank ab out how they should go forward giving life to the business, because he had a responsibility to the investors he had brought into the deal.   Boss tells team weekly to focus on getting customers – still no progress  As another year past, Ramesh noticed that traction was still lacking, and his friend was losing hope. He found that he was not just playing CEO but also playing therapist to his friend while taking a very hands-on approach trying to motivate the people to keep the business alive. Still without processes to manage employees, Ramesh told them to forget everything else and just focus on finding customers to pay for the business, and that all other activities were irrelevant in the scheme of things. Despite getting another investor to help out, he tried to look for progress every week, and every week, there was no progress and hundreds of excuses.   Team continues to do ‘busy work’ without achieving much  So the team was still acting like bureaucrats or employees, just sending out emails to each other. They were too used to working for large organizations, which for most of the time can run on their own. But this was a start-up, running with zero revenue, zero brand value, and zero everything. There were still too many chiefs, and their ability to manage the soldiers was very poor.   Investors call a halt after money runs dry and team effects no real progress  A few more months went by, and the team came back to the investors asking for more money. Ramesh told them there was no more money out there and that they should put in their own funds. They refused. The discussions went on but it all became too much for Ramesh and they pulled the plug. He told the team that, yes, they had tried to do something, it didn’t work out, but stressed that he was more disappointed that they had failed for the wrong reasons. If it didn’t work out for business reasons, that would have been alright. However, the fact that they could not manage the people side of the business, had a top-heavy business model for a start-up – in which the soldiers were not paid and the generals were skimming salaries at the top – was a very bad precedent, so bad that it was very unlikely they could do anything more with the company.     Some lessons  Be clear about the reason for investing in a start-up. Be clear whether you are investing in a business for the sake of friendship or for the sake of business. Be clear whether you expect a return from the investment or not. Once that is clear and you expect a return from the investment then do all the due diligence before getting involved. It can longer, but never invest just on the basis that someone is a good friend, a smart guy, or their successful corporate background, because the start-up life is a different kind of animal altogether.   Don’t invest in a business with too many co-founders. Too many chiefs are waste of time.   Investment must go to build the business. It must not go to supply the founders’ huge salaries before there are revenues and profitability. Look carefully at the business plan and determine whether the “leaders” are eating up the investment in salaries.   In a start-up, people must have a sense of urgency. Every day you have to do something that adds value and adds something positive to the basic objective of driving the business forward: Find customers, lower costs, build a network, raise revenues, or whatever it is, every day.   Don’t cling too tightly to your business idea. A least 90% of businesses start up with an idea does not work, so they have to pivot and figure out a better model for it to work.   It’s very important to take care of your soldiers in the business. They are crucial for the success of your business. First pay the soldiers and then pay yourself. Don’t pay yourself first and leave the soldiers in the air.   Vitally important is the ability to listen to and execute advice. If you execute it and it doesn’t work out for valid business reasons, people understand. But you should not give reasons that are flimsy. Don’t put your excuses on lack of capital or feedback from investors.   In a start-up, you have to be “a hungry dog”. You can’t wait to be fed, you have to hunt down the necessary capital to feed your company. You have to go after people because people don’t come after you. When you work for a large multinational, people come to you. When you are a start-up, you go to the people.   Have a good mix of talent in your team, with defined roles. Such people should be experts in their domain with specific responsibilities, not just people dressed up as co-founders who are doing nothing. Makes sure you can identify the roles, identify the action plan stemming from each role, identify outcomes, and then actually execute your business. Then you will have a much better chance of doing something much more credible.   “When you’re getting into a start-up … leave the baggage of what you did before (at the door) and be open to new ideas. Roll up your sleeves and do what needs to be done to get the business off the ground, because nobody is coming here to help you. You have to go to the people to help yourself.” Ramesh Raghavan   Andrew’s takeaways  Collated from the My Worst Investment Ever series, the six main categories of mistakes made by interviewees, starting from the most common, are:   Failed to do their own research   Failed to properly assess and manage risk   Were driven by emotion or flawed thinking   Misplaced trust   Failed to monitor their investment   Invested in a start-up company  Be wary of putting trust in someone who doesn’t fully deserve it. The fourth category of the most common investment mistakes gathered through Andrew’s My Worst Investment Ever series is Misplaced Trust. Ramesh put trust in somebody who was perhaps undeserving on the basis of what Ramesh needed him for; in this case executing a successful start-up.   Investing in start-ups (number six) is an extremely high-risk venture. When you invest in a start-up, it is such a high-risk activity, that Andrew usually recommends against it. Doing business with or investing in friends’ enterprises doesn’t always work, but it can work. It doesn’t always work with family, but it can work. Some people can truly earn our trust through good performance over a long period.   When doing small business, you must do everything. If you’re thinking about going in and doing business, and you think it will give you more time, think again. You’re going to be overwhelmed and you’re going to have to do many things you never dreamed you would have to be doing.    Actionable advice   Never have a business with more than three co-founders, and each must have specific, clear, identifiable responsibilities for what they will bring to the table.   The equity should be split based on what the investors or co-founders bring to the table, rather than the pure capital that they put in.     No. 1 goal for next the 12 months   To figure out exits for some of the investments Ramesh has made so that he can convert that locked-up capital to liquid capital for better uses in the future.    Parting words   Be bold and remember that the first step in making money is actually to lose some money. So don’t worry about losing money, as long as you win more than you lose.    You can also check out Andrew’s books How to Start Building Your Wealth Investing in the Stock Market My Worst Investment Ever 9 Valuation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them Transform Your Business with Dr.Deming’s 14 Points    Connect with Ramesh Raghavan Email Connect with Andrew Stotz astotz.com  LinkedIn Facebook  Instagram Twitter  YouTube My Worst Investment Ever Podcast  Further reading mentioned Gary Sutton (2001) The Six-Month Fix: Adventures in Rescuing Failing Companies 1st Edition 

David Wolf is the founder and executive producer of Podcast and Radio Networks. For more than 32 years, he has been the creative director, music composer, or producer of content for radio, TV, film, podcasts, audiobooks and multimedia. He has been hosting the Smallbiz America Podcast since 2005, which is now syndicated coast to coast in the US on BizTalk Radio Network and on Smallbiz America Radio. Today, David applies his experience along with the skills of his virtual creative team to help companies, organizations, entrepreneurs and thought leaders grow their brands and businesses through podcasting, audiobook production and internet radio.   “But as you know from hearing these stories, we get emotionally connected to the idea that we can save the idea we thought was the right one” David Wolf     Worst investment ever David, his wife and their two boys were living in Dallas, having moved there from Chicago in 1985 after their marriage. They had successfully built together a successful business producing music for big name brands such as McDonald’s, Southwest Airlines, Chuck E. Cheese restaurants, Exxon Mobil through advertising agencies as primary clients. They also produced work for children’s programming such as the Barney the Dinosaur shows. Music production operation builds to more than half million in annual revenue Upon arriving in Dallas, the keen 25-year-old David worked hard at building his music business, spending 85% of his time driving sales, meeting new people and getting them his music reel. The rest of the time was spent in the studio. With his wife Phyllis, a virtual team, and a collection of musicians and singers, David built up to a peak top-line revenue of around US$650,000 a year. Move to New Mexico proves financially imprudent Around the time he turned 36, he and his family decided to move to Santa Fe, New Mexico, physically moving from the market that was supplying revenue for his business. He admitted failing to fully appreciate the amount of money the business was generating through the creative work and overlooked considerations of capital preservation. Riding the wave of past success, they moved but eventually the reality of being removed from their market dawned on them, so they decided to move back to Dallas to try to regenerate what they had started around a decade earlier. Return to Dallas fails to recreate past wins Back in Dallas, they could not generate the kind of success they had seen before. There was new competition in the market, David and his wife were older, nearly 40, which in that business is considered a little bit old because the decision makers in ad agencies are in their 20s or 30s. So the move back failed to take. So they found themselves asking the question: “What are we going to do?” Brother calls with idea to take over cousin’s bankrupt bagel business Then, possible light shines from the dark. David’s brother in Albuquerque, New Mexico invites him to get involved in a popular retail and wholesale bagel bakery brand in Albuquerque and Santa Fe that had been run by their cousin but had gone bankrupt after attempting to grow too fast. David’s brother understood the physical side of the business whereas David knew nothing about it. He did however know how to market products and was drawn to the idea of something completely new in distributing an edible commodity. Buying an operation for $75,000 that had made $3.2m at its peak seemed smart So he and his family moved back to New Mexico and negotiated to buy with his considerable savings the assets of out of bankruptcy for around $75,000. He also was attracted to the business as it had been generating $3.2 million at its peak, so it felt like a good idea. But it was a very complex business that required knowing a lot more than he realized, with 30 employees, wholesale purchasing, and retail came far more complex accounting, than his experience of getting a creative fee and then paying musicians. But, David learned a lot and was excited to do so. The media picked it up as it had been a very popular brand, had seven retail stores, and they were selling to businesses such as Cisco, Shamrock, Whole Foods, and Wild. Walks in blind to complexity and risk of business type So he walked into an infrastructure set up to make the product and he was blind to the complexity and the risk that he was undertaking. That said, the recipe was great and there were a lot of underserved people in the Jewish community. Even so, the massive chain, Einstein Bros. Bagels had entered the market and had tried to buy out the cousin. It is a large publicly traded company began to do better than his cousins company, mostly because they really know how to run a chain of stores. Operators inherit unnecessarily massive warehouse After the bankruptcy proceedings, they found ourselves with 12,500 square foot warehouse, far bigger than the company would ever need. They tried to get around their competitor Einstein through wholesaling while learning how to do so and bleeding money in paying rent and utilities for the massive building they occupied. They raised loans, David used his own retirement savings, they brought in an investor but after eight or nine years he had to give up. Even though it was the worst investment I made he is very grateful and believes he’s a much better business person now because of this adventure. Family management either works well or fails dismally His brother and his wife, David and his wife formed the top management team, in what David admits was a clearly flawed model for many reasons. Some of it he put down to personal chemistry, but in many cases he blames the idea that you have people doing jobs that are inappropriate to their skill sets simply because they are family members. David was technically the CEO, had strong marketing and communications skills, picked up the financial side, raised the money and organized the banking. His brother and wife were bakery people, but they wanted to be equity partners without having capital to put in. This created many problems because they were employees were owners at the same time. There were emotional drivers as well as he truly desired to help his brother who had had mixed fortune. Death knell as company loses last of its big wholesale customers David was feeding his losses with his retirement funds, all the money he had made amassed from his music business, when he was doing what he loved and had knowledge and experience with. He fed the flailing business in the belief that he could save it and in doing so, help his brother as well. It was a painful ending. When David and the business lose one or two of their large wholesale customers, he decided around when the 2008 crash was happening that he had had enough. He was depleted and exhausted. He filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy and with his family has to a complete restart to life. He admits being emotionally connected to the idea that he could save the idea he thought was the right one.   “I really learned a lot in that very painful 10-year period about business.” David Wolf Some lessons  Stay with what you know. Don’t chase the money, don’t chase the deal. Be really sure that you are rooted in something that you can live and breathe in a very full way. David was really successful as a music composer and a creative professional, but he is still not entirely sure why he veered and walked away from what he was renowned for and what he was skilled good at. He explains that he failed to fully understand the destructive nature of walking away from what I already had experience and success in.    “And so that’s one lesson, to really ask the question:‘Do I know enough about this other thing?’” David Wolf    But he had his reasons: He was 40, burned out and quite tired of creating on demand. It also seemed sufficient a reason to just try something new.   Really evaluate and probe the idea of bringing family in to a business. Make sure that the right people are doing the right jobs. David himself on his own podcast has over the years interviewed experts in family business dynamics that say involving family either works extremely well or it is a complete disaster. So in his case, it was the latter category.     “I underestimated the risk of bringing family in, even though it sounded like a beautifully euphoric idea.”  David Wolf      Never underestimate the complexity of a business you are investing in. David threw himself into a business he knew very little about and then relied on his brother for the knowledge about baking.   Examine the fixed expense base thoroughly. David said he was foolishly optimistic that he and his family team could grow the business and underestimated many of the costs involved, especially plant rental and warehousing costs.  Andrew’s takeaways  Hold cash flow as sacred once you have it. Coddle, cradle, nurture, hold as on to and keeping building it. It is so hard to create cash flow in the first place that, when you have it, make sure you take care of it, build it and protect it. Most of all, don’t walk away from it for any reason.   Complexity is risk. Andrew says he and his coffee business partner and are always discussing ways to reduce complexity. He said he witnesses risk building up in areas of their business when complexity is growing.   If you feel costs getting too high, cut immediately and massively. The Andrew cites Gary Sutton’s The Six-Month Fix for this takeaway. In the front of this book about turning businesses around.  “If you’re the CEO of a struggling business, let’s hope we never meet. I’m Gary Sutton, a turnaround guy. When I arrive you leave. Results usually get better and fast.”  Andrew Sutton, quoting Gary Sutton You have to focus on right person, right job.  Andrew says this is critical for family and business in general. Bear this idea in mind constantly. Another way to think about this, and it’s very important, is to ask yourself the question:   “If somebody bought out our business, and they were going to run it, would they put us in charge? …Or would they go out and put a different person?  Andrew Stotz   Actionable advice   Peel back the layers of your emotional onion to really understand why you’re making a decision, whether that decision is to buy a business, turn a business around, start a new business, get into a franchise, or start a hobby and develop a business model from it. Really understand the why behind the direction you are about to take. Because, if you’re not emotionally connected to the purpose of the business, it could really hurt you down the road.   Understand and do not underestimate the power of complexity and the power of risk. Risk shows up in a lot of insidious ways so try to determine what you don’t know about the path you’re about to take.   No. 1 goal for next the 12 months   To quantify his objective. David is building a virtual team while building his business and he’s received advice to do this.   “I’d love to see it hit the quarter of a million dollar top-line mark, because our gross margins are looking really good.”  Andrew on goals in general  “I highly recommend for yourself as well as listeners, and I try to keep myself to this”   Write down your number one goal.   Identify the top three obstacles to achieving that goal.   Write down the next few steps that you need to take to get to that goal.  And especially for David after listening to his story, and thinking about all of the podcasts Andrew has done …   Write down the risks.    Parting words   “I’m grateful for the opportunity to tell this story becauseit helps me really internalize it and point to the future, as you suggested. So thanks for having me.” David Wolf You can also check out Andrew’s books How to Start Building Your Wealth Investing in the Stock Market My Worst Investment Ever 9 Valuation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them Transform Your Business with Dr.Deming’s 14 Points    Connect with David Wolf Linkedin Twitter Website Facebook Email Connect with Andrew Stotz astotz.com  LinkedIn Facebook  Instagram Twitter  YouTube My Worst Investment Ever Podcast  Further reading mentioned Gary Sutton (2001) The Six-Month Fix: Adventures in Rescuing Failing Companies 1st Edition   

Internationally famous Gary Sutton (Pro Orca Photographer) and Tasli Shaw (Renowned Orca Artist) joined us from Vancouver Island in this PNW Protectors podcast episode to share some mind blowing Orca stories, a Canadian perspective of the plight of the Southern Resident Orcas (SRKW), and ways we all can help Save Our Orcas. Prepare yourself for an amazing hour long journey with these two incredible souls. Enjoy!

Pastor Michael Anthony from Grace Fellowship Church joins Gary Sutton on the show.

Pastor Michael Anthony from Grace Fellowship Church joins Gary Sutton on the show.

Pastor Michael Anthony from Grace Fellowship Church joins Gary Sutton on the show.

Pastor Michael Anthony from Grace Fellowship Church joins Gary Sutton on the show.

How will the new Tax Plan affect you? Senator Toomey calls in to discuss it with Gary Sutton this morning.

Pat Toomey talks with Gary Sutton on election day and changes over the first year of Donald Trump's Presidency.

Tim Law and Gary Sutton discuss the impact violent video games may have on some recent mass shootings.

Tim Law and Gary Sutton discuss the impact violent video games may have on some recent mass shootings.

Gary Sutton speaks with Mike McCormick from the Global Business Travelers Association on travel tips and planning advice.

Gary shares his thoughts on whether President Trump is exactly what this country needs, forcing both sides to unite.

Gary shares his thoughts on whether President Trump is exactly what this country needs, forcing both sides to unite.

Gary Sutton talks with Senator Pat Toomey.

Gary Sutton with Glyn Haynie, author of 'When I turned 19: A Vietnam War memoir'

Gary Sutton with Glyn Haynie, author of 'When I turned 19: A Vietnam War memoir'

Pastor Mike from Grace Fellowship in York joins Gary Sutton in studio.

Pastor Mike from Grace Fellowship in York joins Gary Sutton in studio.

Pastor Mike from Grace Fellowship in York joins Gary Sutton in studio.

Gary Sutton talks with Dr. David Ring, Chair of the AAOS Patient Safety Comm. Change the conversation between doctors and patients concerning opioid prescription use.

Chris Kelly, author of "America Invaded: Remembering 9/11 and Flight-93 and its Citizen Warriors" joins Gary on the WSBA Morning News on the 16th anniversary of 9/11.

Chris Kelly, author of "America Invaded: Remembering 9/11 and Flight-93 and its Citizen Warriors" joins Gary on the WSBA Morning News on the 16th anniversary of 9/11.

PA Senator Pat Toomey talks with Gary Sutton.

Gary Sutton talks with Jason Riley, jounralist and author or the new book "False Black Power".

Gary Sutton talks with Jason Riley, jounralist and author or the new book "False Black Power".

Sen. Pat Toomey and Gary Sutton to talk about Healthcare reform.

If Gary Sutton could have addressed the Boy Scouts at the National Jamboree, here's what he would have said.

Gary Sutton talked with Pakistani-Canadian journalist and author Raheel Raza about being Muslim, Trump's travel ban and more.

Gary Sutton talks with Dr. Buck Blodgett author of "A Message From Jessie." Its the story of how his family overcame violence against children.

Gary Sutton talks with Doug Oliver, author of Resuscitation, And All That Follows.

Mark McKenzie talked about PA public employee pension reform with James Paul with the Commonwealth Foundation on June-1st during the WSBA Morning News with Gary Sutton.

Reverend Michael Lessard joins Gary Sutton to discuss Pastoral Care Associates and your overall spiritual health.

Francis Mandewah was born in a poverty stricken village outside of Sierra Leone, Africa. He was rescued from abuse by an incredible act of kindness and generosity from an American who provided opportunity and education, so Francis could live in freedom. He describes this in his new book Friendship: A True Story of Adventure, Goodwill and Endurance. Francis talks with Gary Sutton about kindness and friendship on WSBA

Scott Uehlinger, Former Operations Officer at CIA, Former Commander at the U.S. NAVY, talks with Gary Sutton about the expulsion of Russian Diplomats, The Russian connection to the Election of 2016, and more on WSBA.

Dr. Bonner Cohen is a senior fellow at the National Center for Public Policy Research, where he concentrates on energy, natural resources, and international relations. He also serves as a senior policy adviser with the Heartland Institute, senior policy analyst with the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, and as adjunct scholar at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. Dr. Cohen talks with Gary Sutton on WSBA

Jim Horn, Former Program Director, Disc Jockey, and Talk Show Host with WSBA talks with Gary Sutton about the Diamond Anniversary for WSBA

Jim Horn, Former Program Director, Disc Jockey, and Talk Show Host with WSBA talks with Gary Sutton about the Diamond Anniversary for WSBA

John Neyland, author of "How To Live The Life You've Yet To Dream" talks with Gary Sutton asking Could the final hours of your life change everything?