Podcasts about law practice division

Our guest today is Stephen Embry, a legal tech guru and longtime lawyer. Among Stephen's many endeavors is TechLaw Crossroads, a blog devoted to the practical impact of technology and innovation on law practice. He writes frequently on the clash of cultures between tech and innovation on the one hand, and the traditional, precedent-grounded legal profession on the other. Today, he is a national litigator and advisor—primarily in the mass tort, business and consumer class action, and privacy and data breach arenas. Additionally, Stephen is the past chair of the ABA's Law Practice Division and the past chair of the Data Breach, Privacy, and Cyber Insurance Section of the Federation of Defense and Corporate Counsel (FDCC). Stephen has also co-authored the book Mass Tort Claims Resolution Facilities, as well as the 2020, 2017, and 2016 editions of the American Bar Association's Legal Technology Survey Reports. In our conversation, Stephen discusses why he started blogging, the disconnect between lawyers and legal tech vendors, pro se litigants using generative AI, and reconsidering pricing structures with the rise of generative AI.

Beth and Debbie welcome Mary VandenAck, a seasoned law firm leader and chair of the Law Practice Division of the American Bar Association. Mary shares her unique journey from training thoroughbred racehorses to becoming a successful attorney, emphasizing resilience, overcoming challenges, and the importance of women supporting each other, offering insights into leadership, inspiration, and the power of a strong network.   Check out the show notes for this episode on our website.   Connect with us: Facebook Twitter LinkedIn

Kathryn and Marlon Lutfiyya, Director of Talent and Diversity at Neal, Gerber & Eisenberg, discuss the advancements in legal research and the importance of DEI integration in law firms. Marlon highlights the benefits of joining a mid-sized firm like his, providing associates opportunities to work closely with senior partners and advance at their own pace using a competency-based system. He also stresses the importance of a firm's commitment to individual development and DEI initiatives when choosing the right firm for junior associates. Who is The Guest? Marlon Lutfiyya is the Director of Talent & Diversity at Neal, Gerber & Eisenberg LLP.  In that role, he helps lead and advance the ongoing development and implementation of the firm's recruiting, professional development and diversity strategies.  As a former litigator, Marlon brings strategic and innovative thinking to the areas of recruitment, professional development and diversity & inclusion.   Prior to joining Neal, Gerber & Eisenberg, he was the Director of Inclusion & Professional Development at Husch Blackwell LLP.  Marlon previously practiced as a litigation attorney at Winston & Strawn LLP in Chicago and at Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP in New York.  He is an active member of the National Association for Law Placement, the Association of Law Firm Diversity Professionals, and the Professional Development Consortium.  He previously served as the Vice Chair of the Diversity & Inclusion Committee of the ABA's Law Practice Division and was appointed to the Law Practice Division's Attorney Well-Being Committee. Episode Resources https://www.linkedin.com/in/marlon-lutfiyya   https://www.nge.com/    Episode Highlights How to integrate DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) into a firm's identity and culture by keeping it top of mind in every aspect of the firm's functions, including recruitment, mentoring, evaluations, and pro bono efforts Strategies to implement DEI initiatives in hybrid work environment Ensuring DEI efforts remain a priority during potential economic downturns, emphasizing the importance of non-monetary initiatives, and adapting strategies to focus on what can be controlled Implementing hybrid work environments with added flexibility by allowing employees to come into the office an average of eight days a month, maintaining connection across practice groups and levels Benefits of the inverted pyramid structure The competency-based level system that allows associates to progress at their own pace, leading to transparency and individual development within the firm Tips for young associates to ask the right questions when joining a firm or looking for a lateral move, focusing on individual development, firm culture, and commitment to DEI Importance of understanding the individual experiences at a particular firm and evaluating the commitment of supervising attorneys to the career trajectories of junior associates Episode Sponsored By https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

In this episode of On Record PR, Gina Rubel goes on record with Roberta “Bobbi” Liebenberg, senior partner at Fine, Kapan and Black, to discuss steps law firms can take to achieve better diversity within their organizations. Learn More Bobbi is a senior partner at Fine, Kapan and Black, a law firm in Philadelphia. She is also a principal in The Red Bee Group, a women-owned consulting group devoted to helping clients attain DE&I objectives. In her law practice, Bobbi focuses her practice on antitrust, class actions, and complex commercial litigation, representing both plaintiffs and defendants. She has devoted considerable time and effort throughout her career to the advancement of women in the profession. She has researched and co-authored groundbreaking, widely cited empirical studies on the underrepresentation of women litigators as lead counsel, the disproportionately high rate of attrition of senior women lawyers, and the effect of the pandemic on women lawyers. Bobbi has served as chair of numerous organizations devoted to gender equality in the profession, including the ABA Commission on Women in the Profession, the ABA Gender Equity Task Force, the ABA Presidential Initiative on Achieving Long Term Careers for Women in Law, DirectWomen (the only organization devoted to increasing the number of women attorneys on corporate boards), the Pennsylvania and Philadelphia Bar Associations' respective committees on women in the profession, and the Pennsylvania Interbranch Commission for Gender, Racial and Ethnic Fairness. In recognition of her professional accomplishments and contributions to gender equality for women lawyers, Bobbi has received numerous prestigious awards and honors, including the Margaret Brent Women Lawyers of Achievement Award from the ABA Commission on Women in the Profession; the Sandra Day O'Connor Award and Sonia Sotomayor Diversity Award from the Philadelphia Bar Association; the Lynette Norton Award from the Pennsylvania Bar Association; the Florence K. Murray Award from the National Association of Women Judges; the Hortense Ward Courageous Leader Award from the Center for Women in Law at the University of Texas School of Law; the Martha Fay Africa Golden Hammer Award from the ABA's Law Practice Division; and Lifetime Achievement Awards from Corporate Counsel and Inside Counsel, the Philadelphia Inquirer, and The Legal Intelligencer.  She was named by Pennsylvania's Governor as a "Distinguished Daughter of Pennsylvania,” and The National Law Journal named her as one of the “50 Most Influential Women Lawyers in America” and one of the “Elite Women of the Plaintiffs' Bar.”

What you'll learn in this episode: What law firm culture is, and why it affects clients as much as it affects staff Why law firms should look at their policies with fresh eyes post-pandemic How firms can use technology to enhance communication When it makes sense for firms to use a hybrid work model, offer hoteling, or open smaller satellite offices How to maintain firm culture when staff is remote About Marcia Watson Wasserman Marcia Watson Wasserman is a published author and co-author of the books: Law Office Policy, Procedures, and Operations Manual – Seventh Edition (ABA 2022), and Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees (ABA 2017).  She is a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management, one of an elite number of consultants who have earned this honor. Marcia serves as Columns Editor on Law Practice magazine's editorial board and is a member of the Publishing Board of the ABA's Law Practice Division. Additionally, Marcia frequently presents law practice management topics for legal and business conferences while also contributing articles on law practice management to leading legal publications. Prior to founding Comprehensive Management Solutions, Inc. in Los Angeles, Marcia served for over 15 years as Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director for several national and local law firms, including an AmLaw 200 firm. Earlier in her career, she served as Director of Law Firm Services and Director of Client Advisory Services for two, mid-sized CPA firms in Southern California. Additional Resources:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marciawwasserman/ Website: www.comprehensivemgmt.com Law Office Policies, Procedures, and Operations Manual, Seventh Edition  Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees    Transcript: After decades of incremental change, the pandemic forced many law firms to embrace technology, rethink work traditions, and evaluate their culture almost overnight. According to law practice management consultant Marcia Watson Wasserman, these changes have been a net positive, even though they've raised new questions about how to manage a law firm in the post-pandemic landscape. She joined the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast to talk about how firm culture trickles down to clients; what technology firms should be investing in; and how firms can embrace remote work. Read the episode transcript here.  After decades of incremental change, the pandemic forced many law firms to embrace technology, rethink work traditions, and evaluate their culture almost overnight. According to law practice management consultant Marcia Watson Wasserman, these changes have been a net positive, even though they've raised new questions about how to manage a law firm in the post-pandemic landscape. She joined the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast to talk about how firm culture trickles down to clients; what technology firms should be investing in; and how firms can embrace remote work. Read the episode transcript here.     Sharon: Welcome to the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast. Today, my guest is Marcia Watson Wasserman, Founder and President of Comprehensive Management Solutions. Her company provides COOs with to-go law practice management consulting and coaching services to boutique and midsize law firms and their managing partners. Marcia is also coauthor of several books on the subject of law firm management. Her most recent book, coauthored with consultant Cynthia Thomas, is the seventh edition of “Law Office Policy, Procedures, and Operations Manual,” published by the American Bar Association. Today, we'll look at how efficient law office management facilitates good marketing. Marcia, welcome to the program.   Marcia: Thanks for having me, Sharon,    Sharon: So glad to have you. As I was saying, it's such an accomplishment to have not only coauthored this book, but to have a list of books you've coauthored. Tell us about your career. You have an impressive track record in the area of law office management. Tell us about your career track.    Marcia: It all started accidentally when I was an undergrad at UCLA. When I was a sophomore, I saw a job on the job board. It was a part-time job working for an attorney. I took that job and learned how to be a legal secretary and a paralegal. I was the backup bookkeeper and office manager and eventually became Executive Director of several law firms back in the 1990s. I was also COO of an AmLaw 200 firm. I decided I wanted to be an entrepreneur and that consulting was far better suited to me, so that's what I started doing, consulting to law firms. For the last 20 years, I've led a managing partners roundtable of boutique and midsize law firms and enjoy doing that, too.   Sharon: I remember when you started it. That's how long we've known each other. Even before that, but I do remember when you were starting that.    Tell me about law firm culture. How does that affect employee satisfaction, and how does employee satisfaction affect or facilitate good marketing?   Marcia: I want to quote a law firm futurist, Jordan Furlong, because he says it so well. Culture is what people at the firm actually do every day. In harsher terms, it's what people get away with. Culture is what actually happens. So, what type of culture you have has an impact on who you hire, whether people are happy, whether they stay with you and how you communicate with clients. If you don't have motivated employees, your clients are not going to be happy with you. If you have people phoning it in and not really dedicated to serving clients, it's going to have a huge impact on your clients.    If you have a great positive culture, then you not only have good employees, but you have clients who are drawn to you as well. You become known for your brand and people seek you out because it's an important part of your own attempts at business development and marketing. If you have a good culture, it gets known. Suddenly, you're on the best law firm list for employees and your client base expands.   Sharon: Is that the way law firms should review and assess their current policies? Especially post-pandemic, when everybody's ramping up again, how should law firms assess their policies and procedures?   Marcia: They need to look at them with fresh eyes. You may have done something for many years because it made sense, but after the pandemic, when law firms discovered we could work virtually—least most positions could—you need to look at every single thing you do with fresh eyes. There were certain things that were temporary, governmental regulations that you had to put in place because of the pandemic, like mask wearing and cleaning and not allowing clients to come to our offices. Now a hybrid workplace is the new normal. We'll see how that plays out over time, but people reevaluated what they wanted, which has an impact on culture and has an impact on clients.    It isn't just the firm that has that in mind; it's the clients as well. Clients don't necessarily want to get in the car for an hour and drive to you. I heard family lawyers and estate planning lawyers say, “Oh no, it will never work. They're used to coming in. It's a very close relationship, and they want to come to the office. We have to have these really nice, big offices for them.” The reality is that's not what the clients necessarily want. The clients can do a Zoom or a Facetime or whatever works for them, and they're very happy to have a relationship with you that way. There may be a time and place where they do want to meet with you in person, but not necessarily as much as lawyers would have assumed they would. So, you have to have policies in place that take all of those things into account.    Demand has changed as to what clients' expectations are. Some of it has to do with the age of your clients. A lot of this is generationally driven, namely the younger lawyers and staff and clients who are Gen Z or Millennials, who have a very unique spin on what work and work/life balance means. If they're a client, they want to work with a law firm that understands that, so you'd better be marketing appropriately to your clients, know who your clients are and have the right people there. A Gen Z client or even a Millennial will not necessarily want a near-retirement Baby Boomer as their attorney, so you've got to pay attention to relationships.   There are certain policies you have to have that are formal, like leaves of absence and antidiscrimination, but if you're looking forward, what do you want your firm to look like? Make those policies to take into account a hybrid workplace. Be culturally and otherwise diverse and have fun things in your policies, too. Have a fun committee, whether it's virtual fun or nonvirtual fun. It makes a difference.   Sharon: I know a lot of companies learned how to use technology because they were forced to learn how to use technology, whether it's a law firm or a different kind of business. They said, “This will never work with virtual or a hybrid law firm.” What kind of technology have firms been implementing? How are they going to be doing this differently? What have they learned during the pandemic, and how are they going to be operating differently in terms of technology?   Marcia: There's so much available with technology. Even the Zoom we're doing today, if the pandemic had happened 10 years ago, we wouldn't have had a good medium like this to communicate. Communication is so important, and technology is right there with us, leapfrogging ahead of what the law firms were expecting. I know of immigration law firms and certain plaintiffs' firms that are using chat boxes and fillable forms. That's how they do their prescreening; they've designed their software to prescreen potential new clients. It makes it a little more seamless for the client. They can go on to somebody's website and fill out a form, so they don't waste time waiting for somebody to call them back. They're able to immediately get that information to the firm. Somebody reviews it and gets back to them much more rapidly at the intake stage.    There are document management systems that some firms were lazy about; they didn't want to make the investment. If you have those systems in place, you can share documents with clients much more easily. When you're setting up workflow and processes, usually firms look at it totally from an internal viewpoint of what's easy for them. They need to be outward-facing and think, “How will this work for our clients? How can we be more efficient so that our fees are fair, we can get things done faster for our clients and we can share documents with our clients?” Even if you've got a brainstorming session with a client on Zoom, you can use a whiteboard on Zoom or whatever other software you're using. You're able to communicate that way and use technology to enhance communication that you wouldn't otherwise have.    Sharon: That's an interesting point about the fact that if the pandemic had happened pre-Zoom, I wonder if it would have lasted as long. Everybody would have pushed to be able to get back into the office. It's an interesting question. I saw some ads recently for law firm marketers. They talked about the fact that it was a hybrid environment and I thought, “If you had suggested that 10 years ago, five years ago, the employers would have said, ‘Forget it! We're not going to do it that way.'”   Marcia: There are still employers who are behaving that way. I know of law firms that said, “We're important because we're employment lawyers and our clients really need us; hence, everyone needs to come back to the office one month into the pandemic. We'll spread people out and do our best to do what we can do, but everybody needs to be back in the office. My legal secretary has to be outside my door to do the things I need. It can't be done remotely.” The firms that took that position lost a lot of their lawyers and staff who said, “No, it's not safe, and that's not what I want to do.”    Sharon: In terms of lawyers working remotely or in hybrid environments, is that going to remain, especially with younger lawyers? Have they seen the way it might be and said, “I'm not going back to what it was”? What do you think?   Marcia: Some of it depends on where you live. In a congested area like Los Angeles, where both of us live, yes, hybrid will happen because people realize, “Wow, I don't have to be in a car two or three hours a day commuting. I'm so much more productive. I can get more work done. I can be with my kids. I can have more of a balanced life.” The younger lawyers are driving that and demanding it and saying, “As long as I'm getting the work done, what does it matter?”    Now, when hybrid comes in, there's a time and place where getting together makes sense. If you're onboarding new people, you can do it virtually; there are best practices for doing it, but there's a lot to be said for a brand-new person to come in and actually meet people and get walked through things. There's a time and a place for a team meeting. If there's a group of people that work together on a particular client and an important event is coming up, a trial or whatever, it makes sense for them to be in the office the same day. Even though a lot of clients say, “We don't need to come in,” there may be a client that wants to come into the office, and that's also the time the team should be there.    But I'm seeing a lot more willingness to let people adjust their schedules, and everybody's a lot happier. It depends. Your older lawyers who are accustomed to coming to the office all the time swear they can't work at home; they just can't do it, so they've been going into the office throughout the pandemic. There are younger lawyers, too, who say, “I have roommates; I have a one-bedroom; I can't work and live in the same place. I don't have enough space. I can concentrate better in the office,” and they've been going to the office the entire time. The great majority of them say, “Hey, I want some balance in my life. This is really working, and as long as I get the work done, give me the autonomy and the authority to get it done my way, as long as I'm meeting deadlines.” A lot of that has to do with how well your communication systems are in place. I do hear that people are worried about losing their culture because everybody's operating more in a silo. So, you have to work at that.   Sharon: How do firms have to operate differently? You mentioned communication. How about telecommunication? Do law firms have to strengthen or change their management policies around that communication? You have to work harder, I presume, to keep a culture.   Marcia: You do, and that's why firms are having things like happiness committees where they come up with events, virtual or otherwise. There are firms I know that have done walks on the beach during the pandemic just to keep people engaged, or they had everyone met at a park and bring their own lunch and stay socially distanced just to see one another. I know a few firms that had retreats at remote locations during the pandemic. They had everyone take Covid tests and made sure they were O.K., and nobody got sick because they were very careful about what they were doing. A lot of it depends on what your culture was to begin with and how friendly an environment you were. Are you a new firm? Are you a firm that's been institutionalized for 40, 60 years and you're used to doing things one way and you don't like change?    Lawyers don't like change anyway, so you need to manage a little bit differently, and communication is an important part of that. Everyone likes to be communicated with in a different way. Some people are happy to text one another and use Slack, and other people want to use video more. Every circumstance requires a different situation for communicating, both as to what the individuals' preferences are and the circumstances of what you're communicating about. People shouldn't just endlessly do Zooms. Everybody is burned out on Zoom. Meetings should be intentional. They should have agendas. There's a time and place for people to meet in person, and a time and place to have a group Zoom meeting or a one-on-one.    Sharon: I like the idea of the fun committees and walks on the beach. Those are great ideas in terms of keeping something cohesive during the time when you're supposed to be spread apart.    I've read about law firms opening more branch offices, little satellite offices of one or two people. Is that happening, or is that an exception? What's the scoop on that?   Marcia: I'd say, again, it depends where you live. If you're in a small town where everything is close by in Middle America, you don't need it. But in suburban areas that are spread out, yes, I'm definitely seeing it for a variety of reasons. One is to serve clients. It's to open an office closer to where your major clients live so they don't have a big commute to come see you. That's one reason. One firm I know, the senior partners live in the suburbs and they don't want to drive to the home office all the time, so they opened a branch near where they live to make it convenient. Now they don't have to come to the main office all the time.    Another firm I'm aware of—and this happened a lot—when people were working virtually, many of the employees, staff and the lawyers decided they were going to move because they wanted more space. They moved farther away, in some cases another county away. We have L.A. lawyers who've moved to Orange County and San Diego County. We have lawyers from the west side who had a small apartment and said, “No, I want something bigger for my family.” They bought a house out in the suburbs, an hour and a half drive from their office. Suddenly the firms are finding out about it later, after the fact, and saying, “O.K., what can we do to keep these people?” One firm I know has downsized their main office in L.A. and built a big branch because so many of their people moved into the area where they've opened the branch. The branch office is probably as large as the main office now. They did it to accommodate people's lifestyle and commute and to make sure their employees were happy.    Sharon: Are you seeing established law firm offices in Century City or downtown shrinking their spaces?   Marcia: Absolutely. They're doing more hoteling. It depends where they are in their lease. If their lease came up during the pandemic, almost universally they've reduced their space. If they still had time to go, they put up with it or renegotiated with their landlords to extend the term and make it less expensive, or they gave up some of their space. A lot of people are subleasing space. I have a client that is looking to move into subleased space because their lease is up. Just in their own building, they've had offers from several different law firms to move into subleased space. These other law firms—that are well-established law firms—have too much space.   They're doing a lot more hoteling for lawyers, just like CPA firms have done for a long time and commercial real estate brokers started doing a number of years ago. It was always, “Oh no, lawyers can't do that.” Well, lawyers can do that. If you want to work at home three days a week and be in the office two days a week, if you don't need your own dedicated office with your plaques on the wall, you can have an office or a conference room. There's scheduling software that firms are buying that accommodates this. The receptionist has scheduling software so that when people come, it arranges an office for them, and they know where to go. That's another place where technology is helping, so you don't have three people showing up to share the same office on the same day.    Sharon: When you say these are things that other industries have been doing for a long time, I worked for a large accounting firm 25+ years ago and they were starting hoteling. I guess it takes a pandemic to get the world to move.    Tell us more about the book. I was looking at the information about the book on the jacket, and it looks like you can tear it apart, make your own templates and really use the book.   Marcia: The main part of the book is an employee handbook. It's a multijurisdictional handbook because we weren't writing it for California or New York. We have readers in the ABA who live in Canada and elsewhere in the world, so we tried to make it as general as possible, while reminding people that you'd better make sure what the laws are before you adopt a policy that won't work where you are. We made that part of the book available online in Word format so you can take it if you don't have an employee handbook. It covers all the legal things you have to have about antiharassment and overtime and those kinds of things, but it also covers how to deal with technology and cybersecurity. We reached out to SMEs to write some of the chapters for us.   Sharon: SMEs being?   Marcia: Subject matter experts. My coauthor and I certainly aren't IT/technology/cybersecurity experts. That's such an important area. We reached out to four individuals from two companies who actually wrote that chapter for us, which includes model cybersecurity guidelines and policies for law firms. You can just take that and put in your handbook.    That's one part of the book, and the book has been around since 1982. The original book was written by a lawyer in L.A. named Bernie Ralston. Bernie was a mentor and a friend to me along the way. I met him through Bar Association volunteerism over the years, and he would refer clients to me. Bernie is just about 100 years old, and he's still licensed to practice law in California and does arbitrations. I don't think he does a lot of work anymore; it's probably pro bono. He was the one who came up with the idea of doing this book, and here we are at the seventh edition. It's pretty special.    Sharon: Wow! The seventh edition must have a lot of changes from the last version in terms of how you deal with post-pandemic issues and how you deal with cybersecurity. That has become such a huge area.    Marcia, thank you so much for telling us about this. You've given us a lot of food for thought and ideas about where we can get answers, such as your book. The templates sound like a fabulous benefit for law firms. Once again, thank you very much. We greatly appreciate you being here today.   Marcia: Thank you, Sharon, for giving me the opportunity to speak with you.  

If you're starting or running a solo or small law practice (or even working in a larger firm), it's important to remember you are not out there on your own. The ABA Law Practice Division (ABA LP) is loaded with resources to help you succeed and grow your business.  ABA LP Chair Heidi Barcus and Vice Chair Mary Vandenack join host Adriana Linares for a deep dive into the four pillars of success: marketing, management, finance, and tech (not to mention your own well-being). Learn what resources are available for you. Membership in the ABA LP includes access to all the books, mentoring, meetings, fellowship, and support of the ABA LP.  For anything you want to know about the practice of law, the ABA LP is the place to go.  Plus, we have a special upcoming mailbag edition on Office 365 and all things Microsoft. Got a question? Want to share some insights? Contact us at newsolo@legaltalknetwork.com. Topics:  You don't have to go it alone when starting or running your solo or small law practice. The ABA LP is loaded with resources including committees and publications on running a successful law practice.  Learn the four pillars of a successful business: Marketing, management, finance, and technology. And don't forget your own well-being.  New Insights, brought to you by Nota by M&T Bank Veteran attorney and mediation professional Liz McCausland answers questions from new solo Stephanie Larenas:   Question 3/4: “As a new lawyer, what are some red flags I should watch for in potential new clients?”   Special thanks to our sponsors, Lawclerk, Alert Communications, Abby Connect, and Clio. 

If you're starting or running a solo or small law practice (or even working in a larger firm), it's important to remember you are not out there on your own. The ABA Law Practice Division (ABA LP) is loaded with resources to help you succeed and grow your business.  ABA LP Chair Heidi Barcus and Vice Chair Mary Vandenack join host Adriana Linares for a deep dive into the four pillars of success: marketing, management, finance, and tech (not to mention your own well-being). Learn what resources are available for you. Membership in the ABA LP includes access to all the books, mentoring, meetings, fellowship, and support of the ABA LP.  For anything you want to know about the practice of law, the ABA LP is the place to go.  Plus, we have a special upcoming mailbag edition on Office 365 and all things Microsoft. Got a question? Want to share some insights? Contact us at newsolo@legaltalknetwork.com. Topics:  You don't have to go it alone when starting or running your solo or small law practice. The ABA LP is loaded with resources including committees and publications on running a successful law practice.  Learn the four pillars of a successful business: Marketing, management, finance, and technology. And don't forget your own well-being.  New Insights, brought to you by Nota by M&T Bank Veteran attorney and mediation professional Liz McCausland answers questions from new solo Stephanie Larenas:   Question 3/4: “As a new lawyer, what are some red flags I should watch for in potential new clients?”   Special thanks to our sponsors, Lawclerk, Alert Communications, Abby Connect, and Clio. 

What you’ll learn in this episode: How law firms have changed due to COVID. What firms are doing with their office and equipment leases. Who firms should be using to negotiate their office and equipment leases. How are lawyers who were previously resistant to working remotely handling the change. What firms need to do to maintain employment morale.  About Marcia Watson Wasserman: Marcia Watson Wasserman, founder and president of Comprehensive Management Solutions, Inc., is a seasoned legal management professional with more than 25 years of experience. She provides C.O.O. to Go™ services to boutique and mid-sized law firms. Her expertise includes operational management reviews, management development and training, succession planning, strategic planning, retreat facilitation, and financial management. Prior to consulting, Marcia served as chief operating officer and executive director of several Los Angeles-based and national law firms, including an Am Law 200 firm.   Marcia leads monthly Managing Partners’ Roundtables for more than 50 law firms focused on elevating the legal management discussion and sharing best practices. She serves as an associate editor for the American Bar Association’s Law Practice magazine and is a member of the Publishing Board of the ABA’s Law Practice Division. She frequently presents on law practice management topics at local, regional and national conferences, and her writings can be found in leading legal publications. She is the co-author of “Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees” (ABA 2017). Marcia’s efforts have garnered the recognition of her peers, as she is a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management.  Additional Resources: LinkedIn “Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees”  Transcript

Bree and Chris welcome lawyer well-being pioneer Anne Brafford to the podcast, best known for her roles as author of Positive Professionals, co-chair of the ABA Law Practice Division’s Attorney Well-Being Committee, editor-in-chief and co-author of the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being’s report The Path to Lawyer Well-Being: Practical Recommendations for Positive Change, author of the ABA’s widely distributed Well-Being Toolkit for Lawyers and Legal Employers and founder and principal organizer of Lawyer Well-Being Week, an annual event occurring every May. Transcript: CHRIS NEWBOLD:Welcome to the Path to Lawyer Well-Being, a podcast series sponsored by the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, where we talk to cool people doing awesome work in the lawyer well-being space. I'm here with my cohost, Bree Buchanan.BREE BUCHANAN:Hey, Chris.CHRIS:And we're here with really one of the pioneers in our well-being space. It is always, I think, an honor to be the first guest of any podcast series and we are obviously thrilled to have Anne Brafford here with us. Bree, do you want to go ahead and kind of do a quick introduction of Anne, a dear friend of ours and again, somebody who's been doing incredible work on behalf of our profession.BREE:Absolutely. I'm delighted to introduce Anne Brafford, Anne, who is somebody I admire and who I genuinely like and I know that whenever I'm going to have a conversation with Anne, I will do it with a smile on my face. So, that goes for this podcast today too. Anne, thanks so much for being here today.BREE:So, Anne, just a little bit about her background, she started out in big law and spent some time there and then made a pivot over the course of her career and ended up going to the University of Pennsylvania and pursuing a master's in applied positive psychology and I can't wait to hear Anne talk a little bit about what is this positive psychology business.BREE:She has been a very prolific writer. She has published a book entitled, Positive Professionals. She's also been very involved in the lawyer well-being movement and has been a pivotal person. She's somebody when I think about the work that the National Task Force has done. But for her, we would not be where we are truly. She stepped into the position of editor in chief for the National Task Force Report and took seven or eight writing groups, very disparate styles and pulled it all together and added all the research and really made the report in many ways the incredibly preeminent document on lawyer well-being. And so, we owe so much to her.BREE:She's gone on to produce the ABA's Well-Being Toolkit, which is an open source document that has been downloaded and used by thousands. So, I don't want to just take all the fun away, Anne. So, I want to give people an opportunity to hear from you.BREE:One question we're asking everybody that's our guest, tell us what brought you to the lawyer well-being space. When I look at your bio, I see that pivot from big law over to pursuing that master's. Tell us a little bit about that, if you would.ANNE BRAFFORD:Yeah, good question. And thanks so much for having me as the first guest on the new podcast. And Bree, I always love speaking with you. And it leaves a smile on my face as well. So, this should be fun.ANNE:So, how I got into well-being, it's a long story that I'll try to make short. But it started as far back as I wanted to be a lawyer since I was 11 years old. That's when I first started saying I wanted to be a lawyer. And unlike so many of us, my childhood dreams came true. I actually kept the dream up, went to law school, which was pretty odd because I was the first kid in my family to even go to college, let alone law school.ANNE:So, when I got my law degree, it was really just one of the happiest and most proudest days of my life. And then I got a judicial clerkship and then I got this great job at Morgan Lewis Equity Partner. It was like, on the outside, everything looked really successful, and it was. I was very proud of my accomplishments.ANNE:But as I began getting a little bit older, I started questioning whether this was all that there was. Was I kind of living up to my 11-year-old dreams of what it was to be a lawyer, which is sort of impossible to do. But I kept asking whether is this all that I'm going to do in my one short life.ANNE:And so, really, it began to be a deterioration of meaningfulness for me. I became a lawyer because I wanted to make the world a better place. And I was an employment lawyer. As an employment litigator on behalf of defendants and I never felt bad about what I did. I thought I was protecting a law that really meant a lot to me, but wasn't enough.ANNE:And eventually, I couldn't answer yes anymore. And so, I ended up applying to get a master's of applied positive psychology from Penn while I was still practicing law thinking I was going to fix myself or fix my culture. I was going to fix something, so I could stay because I wasn't leaving.ANNE:But as I got more into it, I just started feeling a pull that I could either stay in law and kind of do this other well-being stuff part time or I could leave and really potentially make a bigger contribution to the legal profession by helping to make it a place where people have a whole kind of variety of backgrounds and interests can stay and be happy and thrive.ANNE:And so, I made a really hard decision of leaving law in 2014. And I kind of liken it to it was like tearing my arm off. I mean, it was a really hard decision.BREE:I'm sure.ANNE:Yeah. And then I resigned from my partnership position in the firm and then almost immediately started my PhD program in organizational psychology, which I'm still in the middle of. And so now, I focus entirely on the legal profession. But the individual organizationally, institutionally have really helping to use science, apply science to help make the profession, help it live up to its potential to be a place where lawyers can really feel like they're doing something good for society and also thrive themselves. And so, I didn't really leave the law. I'm contributing to the law in a different way now.BREE:I love that you've verbed thriving. That's great, thriving.CHRIS:Yeah. And I think it would be helpful for our listeners to, you've now been for the better part of five, six years, but even before that, what would be your assessment of kind of what the current state of lawyer well-being is. We know that the report was released three or four years ago, right? We think that that was a significant catalyst and a national discussion. It feels like we've been making progress but I just be curious on your current assessment of where we're at and what you think is on the horizon in terms of where we need to go.ANNE:Yeah, good question. I think it's, for me, I feel like it's a really exciting time to be in this area right now. And I've had this conversation with Bree as well. I think people who have been doing well-being legal profession for a while are feeling like there's movement now. We're starting to make progress in a way that's really exciting.ANNE:And I do think the National Task Force's report that came out in 2017 was a catalyst for that, that there already was so much talk and action going on in kind of small cells and that the report then really catalyzed thinking organizations around this idea of well-being.ANNE:And now, I don't think you can talk to a firm or a lawyer who hasn't thought in some way about your well-being and that was not true. When I was growing up as an associate, well-being wasn't talked about really at all. And it was sort of considered, it's your problem not mine, where I think now organizations are getting more onboard and saying, this is really a team effort that we are responsible to each other for this.ANNE:So, I think that's great progress. I think we're still at the very beginning though. I think, well, where I'm hoping to see the evolution will go to is from this individual level, which is really where the movement is primarily focused now. So, things like stress relief, meditation, resilience, these more individually focused programs, nutrition, physical fitness. These are a lot of the things that I see that firms are doing and I see at least around and that's fantastic. It's a great place to start. And it's probably the easiest place to start.BREE:Right, absolutely.ANNE:But I think, yeah, the next part of our evolution needs to be more organizationally where and I think firms are starting ... They're sort of at the beginning of that now. I'm seeing this as more widescale culture change that if we really want to promote well-being, we have to seriously look at the cultures that are recreating the ill health that we're seeing in lawyers, like what about the way that law firms, and I come from a law firm background, but when I say law firms, I really mean all kinds of legal employers. But what are they doing and not doing to support well-being and seriously, looking at their policies and practices. And how can we change those.ANNE:And I think then we also need to evolve to more of an institutional level. Or people raise their eyebrows when I say it, but even things about how our court system is run, how judges treat lawyers, how clients, inhouse clients treat their outside lawyers and how the outside lawyers treat their clients.ANNE:I was a litigator myself thinking about the judges, and multiple times and judges deny lawyers' request to move something because they had a vacation or they weren't feeling well, or judges just being disrespectful. And lawyers sometimes being disrespectful to judges as well.ANNE:But I do think it's an institutional wide challenge of how can we rethink our system so that lawyers can still be their best and do their best for their clients, but also be well themselves. And I think we've made great progress, but we have a long way to go.BREE:No kidding. Yeah. And I also talk a lot about the fact that it's not just individual lawyers that we're trying to get to change the way they go about their work, but it's the culture change, and that's really hard. And so, I know that when we were writing the report, there was discussion about what are sort of the levers of the legal system that we can push to try and bring about some shifts to this, and particularly around, you've talked about with legal employers. And I know that you currently go out and speak to major law firms on these topics and what they can do differently. Can you give us some examples of what a law firm, a midsize or large law firm could do to bring about some culture change so that well-being is prioritized?ANNE:Yeah, I think the first place for organizations to start, and I actually think it might be the number one recommendation the National Task Force Report, number one or number two, but it's about leaders. And I truly believe this. And my book that you mentioned when you're introducing me, Positive Professionals, that's really what it's focused on, leaders and law firms.ANNE:And by leaders, I mean, partners and anyone who is responsible for supporting and influencing others. And I think a lot of partners don't actually think of themselves as leaders if they don't have a formal leadership position, but they really are because they have such an impact on other people.ANNE:And the organizational science part of this shows that leaders really are the creators of culture. They are the most important lever when we talk about creating cultures and changing cultures. And so, often when I talk to firms, what I'm talking about is focused on partners and how they interact with associates. So, many of our firms, although this is changing, but many of our firms have not thought about doing any kind of sort of leadership development with their aspiring partners and their current partners. And so, we think there's many partners that want to be better, want to do better, but just have never had the skills, tools or training to do so.ANNE:And I so I think that is the first place to start of really talking to the partners about how their own kind of supervisory skills, but also with their role modeling to the associates and to not just associates, the staff and everyone around them that you can come out with the best well-being policy and your professional development people and your well-being director can have really good words to say. But if the partners aren't doing it, that's what everyone else is going to follow because they're what staff and associates and all the other lawyers, they want to do well. And so, they look to the partners to know what that looks like.ANNE:So, if say they see partners that are not sleeping themselves, that are typing emails in the middle of the night, that aren't taking vacation, that are rude to others, like that's the pattern that they're going to follow.BREE:Absolutely.ANNE:And so, it's one of the things that I always underscore when I'm talking to partners is that everyone is watching you very closely. The higher you get up into an organizational hierarchy, the more people are watching you, both for what is the value system here and what do you think of me.BREE:Right.ANNE:And so, although you might not think of yourself as any different, oh, I'm still the same Anne Brafford, I just have a new partner title, like nope, you're actually different because people are treating you differently, and your behavior has a much bigger impact on them both for their own well-being and for them watching what's valued.ANNE:And so, I think there are other levers, but I think that one is so important and such a challenge, that that's where we should just be focusing for a while.CHRIS:Anne, are you optimistic that the cultural elements that position those leaders to move the profession forward is going in the right direction, the wrong direction or there's generational things that are in play, right? There's societal factors in play. It certainly feels like there's more willingness for folks to be vulnerable, which is a probably a driver that could be really helpful in culture shifts within the professions. I'm just kind of curious on your outlook of how optimistic are you? And what do you think are the kind of the underlying drivers that could either accelerate or hinder our ability to engineer this shift?ANNE:I think I'm always optimistic.CHRIS:We know that of you.ANNE:But I would say that my experience is that organizations are still all over the map. I would say like the ABA has come out with a wonderful ABA Well-Being Pledge, where many organizations, especially law firms have signed up saying that they're going to really commit themselves to lawyer well-being.ANNE:And I would say, even within that group who have made a public commitment, they're all over the map, that some of them, it's nice window dressing, but everyone else is doing it. So, we need to do it to show that we care about well-being.ANNE:There's others that I would say really are trying to figure this out. So, I think that at least now they're interested and asking questions, even the ones that just have it as window dressing, that's progress. It's better than what it was before. Once you start making public statements about your commitment, you're much more likely to start taking action because people are going to start questioning you. And you also want to be consistent with your public statements.ANNE:So, I think I am optimistic, but I think there are many obstacles to getting to where we want to go. Just our billable hour system, which is going to take a really long time to change, is everyone knows it's a problem. I don't know that you could find a single law firm leader that says they like the billable hour structure, but just no one has found a way to change it yet.BREE:Anne, I think that you're a heretic for saying that, I mean. I mean, to go ahead and call it out, I get up and talk. And I usually don't do this in a big room because I'm just afraid what's going to happen but really, if I can get around to it, the billable hours, the 800, 8,000 pound gorilla in the room until we have some shift with that, it's going to be a hard time to really change culture.ANNE:It is and I'm with you. I don't often talk about it in large rooms. I talk about it in small rooms, but I will also say that the science on it, on number of hours worked is really interesting. So, there was a big study in 2014 led by Larry Krieger on what makes lawyers happy? Let's stop talking about only what makes them sad. So, what makes lawyers happy.ANNE:And their study found that number of hours alone was not related to well-being or happiness, but billable hours work were. The more that billable hours rose, the less happy that people became. So, you could have two lawyers working the same number of hours but have different levels of happiness based on whether one felt like they were doing it freely and autonomously because it was their own choice versus feeling like they were forced to because of billable hours.ANNE:So, there's this idea of a basic human need that we have is autonomy. And it supports intrinsic motivation, like am I doing this because I enjoy it, because it's my choice to be doing it. And it's highly related to happiness and energy and all sorts of well-being that we care about. And so, it's not just that.ANNE:I think when people think about billable hours, it's often, oh, because we're being overworked. And yes, there is a lot of overwork in the profession. That's absolutely true. But there's also it's just harmful cultures that it's [crosstalk 00:19:04] worst.BREE:Yeah. What are you billing your time doing, which can be really mind numbing and it gets back to that meaning piece.ANNE:Yeah. And do I feel like I'm just making up hours because I have to. Am I having to find work when I really need to go take a job just because I need billable hours rather than because I'm so engaged in what I'm doing. So, I think billable hours is a challenge for a number of problems. But firms tend to be extremely competitive. And when you get to the partnership level, the way compensation works, there's all kinds of issues. I think the billable hours is just kind of the tip of the iceberg. But I do think there are a number of the ways that have just been standard practice within the legal profession that are posing obstacles that they're going to be hard to change, but again, I'm ready remain optimistic. It's just not going to happen overnight.BREE:Yeah, and I just want to commend everybody, the study that Anne just mentioned, it's called What Makes Lawyers Happy by Professor Larry Krieger, and it's really a great piece of work and maybe we can get Larry on the podcast.CHRIS:Yeah. It's probably a good time to take a quick break here from one of our sponsors. What a great conversation. And again, thank you for being here. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. —Your law firm is worth protecting. And so is your time. ALPS has the quickest application for legal malpractice insurance out there. Apply, see rates and bind coverage – all in about 20 minutes. Being a lawyer is hard. Our new online app is easy. Apply now at applyonline.alpsnet.com—BREE:Welcome back, everybody. We have Anne Brafford with us today, who is the founder and owner of Aspire and also has been a pivotal leader in the National Task Force and lawyer well-being movement across the country. And one of the things we're going to talk about with Anne in this part of the presentation is about her pivotal role as being a founder of Lawyer Well-Being Week.BREE:And Chris is going to talk to her about that in just a minute but Anne, really one of the reasons I wanted you to be our first guest is that you can really speak to a foundational component of our work, which is how we defined well-being. And in fact, I remember when we were writing, you, as the editor in chief, kept pulling us back to, okay, we need to define these terms. We need to substantiate what we're saying with data and studies and all of the 200 plus whatever footnotes that were in the report and really tying us back to science. So, could you talk a little bit about how we came about to define lawyer well-being? What does that mean?ANNE:Yes, so this was set out in the report. We had a couple of pages of just saying, okay, we're all wanting to talk about lawyer well-being, let's talk about what we mean. And I need to give a shout out to Courtney Wylie and Patrick Krill, the three of us are the ones who really did the research and debated with each other and then offered it up, proposed it to the whole National Task Force for acceptance.ANNE:But what we did initially was to look at what other organizations were doing, both like corporate organizations and also organizations like the World Health Organization and other large organizations and how they were defining well-being and how they were approaching it.ANNE:And the first thing that was obvious is that this was a multidimensional concept. It's not binary, you're well, you're not well. It's a continuum and has lots of different dimensions. And the other thing that the World Health Organization agreed with, thankfully, was that it was, well-being isn't just the absence of illness. It's also the presence of full well-being.ANNE:And Bree, you'll recall that I wasn't only harping about the evidence, I also was always wanting to remind us to not only focus on the absence of illness in our report. And understandably, that's where a lot of people tend to focus because that's important of when people's lives are really being harmed and ruined by alcohol use disorders and mental health. You want to focus there on just helping those people get better.ANNE:But there's so many lawyers in the profession that although they don't have a diagnosable illness, they're not fully well. And so, we wanted to capture the full continuum of well-being and all of lawyers no matter kind of where they were in the continuum. And so, that's how we define well-being of really making sure the first thing we noted is just like the World Health Organization, we are defining this to mean both sides of this, curing illness and also promoting full well-being and then the multidimensional concept of this involves both mental health, intellectual health, physical health, of all the different areas of our lives. These work synergy synergistically to make us fully well.ANNE:And then when you look at one of the big dimensions that is important to lawyers, all of them are, but it's occupational health. As lawyers, are we fully well and we define that. And that's an area where I have focused more on lately, like what do we really mean? And how do we measure it? And is it just again, like so many people will focus on things like burnout or depression, but what else is it?ANNE:If we're looking at optimal functioning, what we want to look at is yes, we want the absence of illness, but we also want things like engagement, job satisfaction, high performance, low turnover intentions, like people who actually want to stay and thrive here.ANNE:So, I think even just getting into each dimension, there's more that we need to understand and figure out how to measure so that we know whether we're making progress or not. But that's basically the gist.CHRIS:One of the pages that I'll refer to our listeners to is page nine of the report, which I think has just a wonderful graphic of the holistic dimensions that I think you cite, the emotional well-being, the occupational well-being, intellectual, spiritual, physical, social. And I'm curious and just because of how much scientific research that you've done in your work on the occupational side, you've done some work as part of your master's program on building the positive law firm. And what does some of the research kind of say out there with respect to that part of the well-being definition that I think that you're spending considerable amount of time really waiting into?ANNE:Yeah, so my master's capstone was on building the positive law firm. And then that was further expanded in my book, Positive Professionals. And there's a lot of dimensions to that. The first thing I already covered, which is the importance of good leaders because they create culture.ANNE:I think that one of the other things that it's so important in the legal profession that gets missed is that working hard isn't the problem. That people who are highly engaged and love their work, they work hard and they work a lot of hours, but failing to take time to recover, that's when the wheels can start coming off.ANNE:And so, I don't think that there's so much focus on lawyers work too hard. I think we should just turn it and say lawyers need to recover. Good lawyers are going to work hard. Anyone who loves what they do and are passionate about what they do are going to work a lot of hours. But thinking about how we recover and there's a whole body of research just on what are the best ways to recover.ANNE:And I talk about it a little bit in my book, but it's things like just sitting on a sofa and watching TV is not actually the best way to recover and actually conserve energy. So, one of the best things for lawyers, people who are very cognitively invested in their work, so lots of brain power, one of the best ways to recover is actually physical activity. It's very engaging. It makes your mind come off your work. And also, just physical movement is really good for both our brains and our bodies.ANNE:And the disengagement from work is a really important component of recovery, of finding something that will engage your attention. So, thinking about what are called mastery activities, so art, music, sewing, knitting, anything that will fully absorb your attention is a really good and important activity for recovery because it helps you disconnect a little bit from work and also has other sorts of great benefits.ANNE:And I don't think we can talk about recovery without talking about the importance of sleep, which I do think is a challenge. When I was a lawyer at my firm, it was honestly like people would sort of be competitive about how little sleep they have had for the week. And that's toxic. Those kinds of things have to change.BREE:Yeah, and I talk about that when I go out and speak to new lawyers and just talking to them about the importance of sleep and how everything that you need to do as a lawyer is not going to be online if you're not sleeping and there's no honor in bragging about being powered by Red Bull. You're not going to get the best work product.ANNE:I was one of those people, like I'm embarrassed by some of the things. Guys, if you would know me back then, some of the things that came out of my mouth ... I was one of those people. So, I totally get it. It is hard to change. I'm still recovering on that whole sleep is good sort of thing. And I read all the science, like I'm absolutely convinced, but there's just this draw of I have to get more done. So, sleep is a really important thing to work on in our organizational cultures.CHRIS:Let's spend a couple of minutes in talking about something that in your capacity as a leader of the ABA's Law Practice Division's Attorney Well-Being committee, you kind of hatched an idea knowing that we needed to continue to keep this issue front and center and that was Lawyer Well-Being Week, which we just enjoyed.CHRIS:Anne, I just love your perspective on why you felt like that week was so important to sustain awareness of this particular issue, what will you ultimately learn from Lawyer Well-Being Week in terms of the amount of activity, which I think was enormous and encouraging and why it's so important that we continue to keep this issue front and center?ANNE:Yeah, so, Lawyer Well-Being Week had been on my mind for several years and very excited that it finally came together. And there were a number of reasons why I thought it was important. One was that there were so many people that wanted to contribute in some way but didn't know how. And so, I wanted to create one event that was big enough and diverse enough for a lot of different people to contribute.ANNE:And then second is just what you said, Chris, of keeping attention this important topic that we've all seen kind of fads come and go in the legal profession that something is there's so much energy and attention around it for a couple of years and then we move on to the next thing.ANNE:And this well-being just can't be one of those things. We have to sustain this lawyer. Well-being is too important for it just become another fad. And so, creating an annual event to really focus attention around the idea, keep attention on it, create a time and space for more innovation, discussion around it, firms get to see what other firms are doing just based on social media and by communicating with each other.ANNE:And so, we had the first Well-Being Week was just this last May. Unexpectedly, we had a global pandemic occur. And we had to pivot pretty quickly. Firms and other organizations have been planning some really cool in-person events that hopefully they'll still be able to do next year, but everything had to go remote.ANNE:And I will say I was pretty disappointed. A lot of people were pretty disappointed. But in the end, I think the silver lining was that people were even more open to the idea of needing to care about well-being in the middle of this really difficult time.ANNE:So, although we couldn't do a lot of the programming that we wanted, it may have even been better in that people were so much more open to this message than they might otherwise have been. And so, there was lots of engagement involvement by bar associations, law firms, in-house departments because I think everyone has become interested in well-being but also they were looking for stuff to get out to their lawyers during this time that they knew a lot of people were struggling.ANNE:And I do hope it continues to be absolutely raising awareness. But I also really emphasize innovation of really thinking about how do we move this forward. The meditation sessions and resilience sessions are really important, but how can we push Lawyer Well-Being Week to get organizations to think more culturally and institutionally as well.ANNE:And I've gotten very positive feedback about it. And so, we're hoping that it continues and that it will be an annual event for many years and that we just keep making it better and better and find even better ways to serve the profession.BREE:Absolutely. And it's definitely a priority for the National Task Force for 2021. So, let's hope we can get together and enjoy that in person.BREE:Anne, because you're really are, and I mean this, and it's complimentary, but I really mean it, you are a visionary and a thought leader in the space. And so, I'm going to push you a little bit to think about how do we know that lawyer well-being is done? It's fixed. We can check that box. I mean, when we sat in the room, the original founders in 2016, we talked about that this is a project that will take at least 10 years because we had a sense that it was a really a lot of heavy lifting. But we didn't really break it down to what would the world look like?CHRIS:Yeah. What does success look like?BREE:Yeah, right, Chris, what does success look like in the lawyer well-being?CHRIS:You're a metrics person, too, so, this is even better.ANNE:Yeah. So, I actually think those were two different questions. And I think what does success look like is a different question than when will we be done, because I don't think we'll ever be done.CHRIS:That's right.ANNE:Because the profession will continue to evolve. The world will continue to evolve. People's values will continue to evolve. And so, what lawyer well-being means and how we get there will be a forever project.ANNE:But the urgency that created the National Task Force Report had a lot to do with ill being, which was the statistics that got all of our attention on the level of alcohol use disorders and mental health disorders. And so, alleviating that I think is job one.ANNE:And how do we know that we've succeeded? I've thought a lot about that just with respect to Lawyer Well-Being Week, how do we know we succeeded. And I think like one, more simple one is, have we raised awareness about the importance of this issue? And how would we measure that.ANNE:But then, have we decrease the incidence of alcohol use disorders and raised the incidence of people's willingness to seek help? And I think no organization yet has been doing broad scale regular surveying to measure that, for a lot of reasons.ANNE:But I do think like that those would be the kinds of measures that I would want to look at first because those are the things that are potentially ruining people's lives. And these aren't mutually exclusive. But then also looking at the more thriving aspects of well-being or do we have high job satisfaction, high engagement? Do people feel that their work is meaningful? Those kinds of things which there's measures for all of that.ANNE:So, I think those things are hard to get out. That's costly to do all those things. But I do think that's how I would measure it. But I don't want to undermine the importance of our people realizing that this is important, like have we got people's attention. And I think, on that score, we've made incredible progress.CHRIS:Yeah.ANNE:Whether we've made a dent yet in alcohol use disorders and mental health, I'm not sure but we have to have that first level of awareness before we get to the next and then next, are we getting to full thriving, are organizational cultures fixed or institution? I'm not sure what those measures are yet, but I think that's a longer way off.CHRIS:Yeah, the full thriving I think is really an interesting component because again, the opportunity for folks to pursue a legal career and find personal and professional satisfaction, so many of I think of our colleagues ultimately will find that they may have made a wrong decision.CHRIS:And one of the questions that I ask oftentimes when I get up the podium at a regional or a state bar gathering is, would you recommend that if your son or daughter or one of their close friends came to you and said, "Should I go to law school?" That generally the answer is a little startling of a lot of people saying no. And to me, that says something about the systemic nature of problems that people can't maybe find what they are actually looking for or there's a false sense of expectation on what they thought it would be like, versus what it ultimately is.ANNE:Yeah, I think it's all those things. Even though I've left law, I would actually say yes, go to law school. There are so many great things about being a lawyer, but also stay true to the reason that you're going to law school.ANNE:That Larry Krieger, who we mentioned earlier has done on work on the evolution of values for law students throughout law school. And what he finds is that law school culture is channeled lawyers toward, well, the brightest and best go to the big firms. And that's great. There are lots of great opportunities at big firms and if that's the right fit, do that.ANNE:But there are other people like maybe me, that when I had a different value system but I wanted to do what the best kids were doing.CHRIS:Yeah.ANNE:And so, I was actually going to be a prosecutor and was looking for internships with prosecutor's offices, and a professor came to me and said, "What are you doing? You have good grades, you should go to a big firm." And I'm like, "Why would I do that?" I said, "That's not what I wanted to do when I came to law school." And he said, "You can always go from a big firm to a prosecutor's office, but you can't do the reverse. So, just go try it."ANNE:And so, I did. And I got into employment law, which I really liked, it was super interesting. And then you just get carried away with like, whatever the next thing is, I'm going to get that, I'm an achiever like so many lawyers are.ANNE:So, I do think like, yes, be a lawyer. There are so many great things about being a lawyer. It's super interesting work. You can make a positive impact, but stay in the right lane. Do what you think you'll love in 20 years and not just what seems prestigious right now.CHRIS:Yeah. Well, Anne, in our last question that I wanted to pose to you is one of the things that we're so excited about is the growing army of folks who are passionate about this issue. And this podcast was developed for those particular folks who are leading state task forces, working on subcommittees at the state and local level. Just be curious on your words of wisdom as you get to kind of address an army of well-being advocates across the country, any thoughts about just this fight, this culture shift, any recommendations or motivational words to really an incredible growing number of people who are passionate about this issue?ANNE:Well, get involved in Lawyer Well-Being Week. And part of resilience is anticipating failure along the way and figuring out when you face those failures, what are the 10 or 20 different ways that you're going to get around those obstacles?ANNE:And I think that that doesn't sound very inspiring, expect failure. I think it's absolutely important to the cause that we're undertaking because there are so many obstacles. But it's so important. So, expect that this is a long road. Things aren't going to change tomorrow and really think about what those obstacles are. And when you have a failure, don't feel like a failure, that think of the 20 different ways that you can get around whatever that obstacle is.ANNE:And that's how I've approached it, that when I have a door closed or hear a no, I'm going different ways to get to my yes, maybe not as easily as or as quickly as I wanted. But this is a long game, this isn't a short game. And so, just keep at it and really engage, get connected with people who feel as passionate as you do so that we can all help keep our energy up.BREE:I want to point out to everybody, we've been talking about Lawyer Well-Being Week and if you want to learn more about that, go to the National Task Force website, which is lawyerwellbeing.net. And all of the information, the great materials and worksheets and ideas for well-being is still up there. And it's applicable throughout the year. And so, I'm hoping people will use that.CHRIS:Anne, thank you so much again for your leadership, for your inspiration, for taking risks in your personal life to become a leader in our movement, for the work that you're doing on the science side of well-being. I mean, we are truly fortunate to have you amongst us and being a leader in our movement. So, thank you for being our first podcast guest.BREE:Thank you.CHRIS:Really cool. And we will be back with the Path to Lawyer Well-Being podcast in a couple weeks. Again, our goal is to do probably two a month, where we'll bring more great guests like Anne into the fold and talk about specific areas of lawyer well-being. So, for me, signing off. Bree, any final closing thoughts?BREE:Just a delight to get to spend time with you, Anne, as always. Thanks so much.ANNE:Yeah. Thanks for having me.CHRIS:All right. Thank you. 

My guest today is the second return guest to this podcast - my good friend Stephen Embry. Who, when he was last on the podcast, was a member at Frost Brown Todd LLC based in Louisville, KY where he practiced for about 30 years. Since then Steve left the firm and started the fantastic blog TechLaw Crossroads (www.techlawcrossroads.com) which examines the cultural gap between technology and innovation, and how all that applies to the legal profession. I have the honor of crossing paths with Stephen at legal technology conferences and we’ve worked together on the ABA TECHSHOW and the Law Practice Division of the ABA. Stephen attended the 2020 CES trade show in January and joins me on the podcast to explain how lawyers can benefit from conferences like this, and some of the “consumer” technology that he saw and experienced. More importantly, Stephen explains why lawyers should be paying attention to all this technology. Stephen wrote some excellent pieces on his experience at CES in Part 1 and Part 2 of his TechLaw Crossroads blog.

Micah Buchdahl is an attorney focused on assisting law firms with business development initiatives. He is Chair of the American Bar Association’s Standing Committee on Continuing Legal Education and a past chair of the ABA’s Law Practice Division.Micah joins the Gruler Nation to discuss legal marketing misconceptions and trends in a 2019 world, specifically the importance of content marking.Find more from Micah by visiting his homepage at www.htmlawyers.comSubscribe to the Gruler Nation Podcast by visiting www.robgruler.com for both YouTube and audio links, or find the audio on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts and Stitcher.#lawyermarketing #lawfirmmarketing #legalmarketing #aba #americanbarassociation #attorneyatlaw #practice #marketing #businessdevelopment #contentmarketing #grulernationSupport the show (https://www.ericshouse.org/donate/)

Marcia Watson Wasserman, Founder and President of Comprehensive Management Solutions, Inc., is a seasoned legal management professional with more than 25 years of experience. She provides “C.O.O. To Go”™ services to boutique and mid-sized law firms. Her expertise includes operational management reviews; management development and training; succession planning; strategic planning; retreat facilitation; and financial management. Prior to consulting, she served as Chief Operating Officer and Executive Director of several local and national law firms, including an AmLaw 200 firm. Marcia leads monthly Managing Partners’ Roundtables for more than 50 law firms focused on elevating the legal management discussion and sharing best practices. She serves as an Associate Editor for the American Bar Association’s Law Practice magazine and is a member of the Law Practice Division’s Publishing Board. She frequently presents on law practice management topics at local, regional and national conferences, and her writings can be found in leading legal publications. She is the co-author of “Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion For Your Firm and Employees” (ABA 2017). Marcia’s efforts have garnered the recognition of her peers, as she is a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management. Andrew Elowitt specializes in leadership and talent development for lawyers and legal executives. His firm, New Actions LLC, focuses on the people side of legal practice: how lawyers lead, manage, thrive, change and find resilience and balance. Andrew works with lawyers and managers in private practice, corporate legal departments and government agencies. Andrew is regarded as an expert in soft skills and the uses of emotional, social and conversational intelligences in leading, managing and growing legal organizations of all sizes. In addition to coaching individual lawyers on topics as diverse as business development, practice management, productivity and stress management, he frequently consults with firms on business, strategic and succession planning matters. He is a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management and is regularly invited to conduct workshops for his clients, and present programs to industry leaders and professional associations. He is the author of many books and articles, including “Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees” (ABA 2017), “The Lawyer’s Guide to Professional Coaching: Leadership, Mentoring & Effectiveness” (ABA 2012), and “Is Managing Lawyers Like Herding Cats?” (Law Practice May/June 2018). He currently serves as Vice Chair of the American Bar Association’s Publications Board. What you’ll learn in this episode: The difference between being a good lawyer and being a good manager. Why lawyers’ unique personality traits can inhibit their management skills, and how to move past this to become a good manager. Best practices for delegating tasks to other lawyers and staff to boost productivity. How lawyers can overcome their reticence for business development activities. How to be a champion for both your employees and your law firm as a manager/lawyer. Marcia and Andrew’s book: “Lawyers as Managers: How to Be a Champion for Your Firm and Employees” ABA, Amazon Ways to contact Marcia: LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/marciawwasserman Company Twitter: @mwwCompMgmt Company website: www.comprehensivemgmt.com Ways to contact Andrew: LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/andrewelowitt Website: newactions.com Book: “The Lawyer’s Guide to Professional Coaching” ABA, Amazon

Contract staffing has been around for a while, but as the economy has changed so has the hiring process. In this report from On The Road, host Christopher Anderson talks to Michael Spekter about how on-demand staffing is evolving to meet the needs of firms. They also discuss the benefits of using contract employment. Some of these benefits include creating competition, improving work quality, and providing more opportunity for delegation. Michael Spekter, from the Law Practice Division, is an experienced and distinguished employment litigator.

The ABA’s Law Practice Division focuses on the areas of practice management, finance, marketing, and technology, which are all brought together at ABA TECHSHOW. In this report from On The Road at ABA TECHSHOW 2018, host Dennis Kennedy talks to Josh Poje and Zachary Bambacht about the conference from a Law Practice Division perspective. They also discuss the different aspects of the Law Practice Division and why lawyers should be interested in joining their community. Josh Poje is the director of the Law Practice & Technology Group at the American Bar Association. Zachary Bambacht is the director of the ABA Law Practice Division where he oversees all facets of law practice and the LTRC.

My guest today is Stephen Embry who is a member at Frost Brown Todd LLC. Steve is based in Louisville, KY, and practices in the Class Action, Privacy, and Mass Tort groups there at the firm. Stephen is a member of fbtTECH – the firm’s technology industry group that focuses on how technology is impacting the legal system and issues facing their clients. I frequently cross paths with Steve at legal technology conferences and get-togethers, most notably the ABA TECHSHOW since Steve is active in the Law Practice Division of the ABA. Steve and I also serve on the Board of the Legal Technology Resource Center (LTRC) of the ABA. Steve mentions in the podcast that the LTRC hosts the excellent Law Technology Today blog and suggests that it’s an excellent opportunity for young lawyers (and all lawyers!) to get published (contact the editorial team here). I’ve always enjoyed talking with Steve since he practices at a large law firm, but still finds time to focus on leveraging technology for the practice of law. I just appreciate someone in Steve’s position recognizing the importance of this topic. Apps mentioned in this episode: TranscriptPad Links above may be affiliate links to the iTunes App Store or Amazon.com.

Online advertising is a powerful marketing channel for expanding your client base and increasing sales. What makes online advertising so effective is that it is highly targeted, measurable and scalable. But picking the right mediums and properly implementing online ad campaigns is critical. In the webinar you’ll learn what makes online advertising so effective, the difference between branding and direct response advertising channels. The most important online advertising channels to consider, the unique benefits offered by different online advertising channels, how to identify your ideal prospects and develop a plan to attract them How to super-charge your content strategy with digital advertising, the importance of identifying your client acquisition costs, how to manage advertising like a high-return investment, how to effectively measure the ROI of your advertising spend down to the dollar, how to build a repeatable, profitable, and scalable online marketing machine to grow your business. Jason Marsh, founder of digital marketing agency MARSH8, has been working in the trenches of internet marketing since 2008, driving new business for companies spanning from Broadway to Silicon Valley. When it comes to acquiring new clients online, Jason Marsh is a nationally-known digital marketer knows how to get results. In an ever-changing digital landscape, he knows what is working right now. With an approach that is part art and part science, Jason and his team at MARSH8 develop scalable and data-driven online strategies for clients that consistently generate significant returns on investment. Jason has chaired the Legal Marketing Interest Group for the American Bar Association’s Law Practice Division, and was recently appointed to chair the brand-new Client Development & Marketing Committee. He is frequently invited to speak at conferences and legal associations across the country, and is a contributing editor for Law Practice Today.

Scott and Oscar continue their chat with Tom Bolt of the ABA’s Law Practice Division. The focus turns to specific thing that law students, new lawyers and lawyers in transition can do to help develop a practice in this new economy. The hosts discuss with Tom the role technology plays to both support and place stress upon new, developing practices. Tom’s position offers him unique insight into what is happening in the legal marketplace across the country. He concludes the discussion talking about the Law Practice Division’s four core focus areas: marketing, management, technology and finance. We would like to let our listeners know that the ABA website offers publications, professional development tools and networking opportunities that provide valuable guidance on those four topics. You can learn more about the ABA’s Law Practice Division by visiting their webpage at: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/law_practice.html

Legal Talk Network host Adriana Linares interviews Bob Young, current chair of the ABA Law Practice Division (LPD), at the 2015 ABA Midyear Meeting. Young discusses his goals as Chair to improve member benefits, expand the LPD’s brand, and connect with law students. He also talks about the upcoming ABA TECHSHOW and how all legal professionals can benefit from attending. Bob Young is a partner at the Bowling Green, Kentucky, firm of English Lucas Priest & Owsley LLP where he focuses on medical malpractice, pharmaceutical, and medical device litigation.

Legal Talk Network host Adriana Linares interviews Tom Bolt, chair-elect of the ABA Law Practice Division (LPD) at the 2015 ABA Midyear Meeting. Bolt discusses the progression of LPD and how it can give assistance to big firm, solo, and small firm lawyers, government lawyers, those in the judiciary, and even legal associates. In addition to being Chair-Elect of LPD, Tom Bolt is founder and managing attorney of BoltNagi PC on St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands.

The Law Practice Division (LPD) Legal Marketing Interest Group Chair Jason Marsh interviews LPD Associate Director Cindy Galvin and Meetings Assistant Marisol Massini at the 2015 ABA Midyear Meeting. Galvin talks about the logistics of planning meetings and the benefits of joining the LPD. Massini discusses her involvement with the Women Rainmakers. They both encourage all legal professionals to join the LPD and members to come to the meetings.

The ABA TECHSHOW is an annual legal technology conference in Chicago, sponsored by the Law Practice Division of the ABA. The goal of the conference is to educate lawyers, legal professionals, and law firm employees on using technology in their practice. The 2015 conference will be held April 16th through the 18th, and will feature many new and recurring educational topics that are trending in legal technology. Want to find out if this conference will benefit your practice? In this episode of The Digital Edge, Sharon Nelson and Jim Calloway interview the Chair of the ABA TECHSHOW Board, Brett Burney, about the 2015 conference, what attendees can expect, and why attendance is useful to almost anyone working in the legal field. The people who should attend, Burney says, are solo and small firm lawyers, government lawyers, members of corporate legal departments, and big firm lawyers. Additionally, law firm employees such as paralegals, legal assistants, CIOs, IT professionals, law firm administrators, office administrators, litigation support professionals, and many others will benefit from the educational value of the ABA TECHSHOW. He talks about this year's legal technology topics such as cloud computing, a paperless office, digital security, and many others, and how the board selects speakers of quality and relevance. Burney discusses how having vendors and exhibitors at the conference can help users, why a legal professional should attend for the first time, and what's new and cool for the 2015 conference. The ABA TECHSHOW comes highly recommended by past attendees for legal professionals at any level of tech experience, from novice to expert. Brett Burney is the Chair of this year's ABA TECHSHOW Board and is also the Principal of Burney Consultants LLC. He focuses the bulk of his time consulting on e-discovery and litigation support topics. He also works with lawyers who want to integrate Macs, iPhones, and iPads into their practice. Burney is a frequent contributor to Legal Technology News and speaks around the country on litigation support, e-discovery, Mac and iOS-related topics.

New Solo host Adriana Linares interviews Rodney Dowell and Josh Poje at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Poje, Director of the Legal Technology Resource Center (LTRC), discusses online resources like the blog or webinars, and how lawyers can benefit from marketing and technology conferences and meetings. Dowell, Chair of the LTRC group, gives insights into quality content creation and questionnaires the group has devised to research what technology lawyers are actually using. Dowell also discusses being Executive Director of Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers, an organization working with lawyers who struggle with mental health or stress issues.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews Chair of the Diversity and Inclusion Committee Joan Bullock at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Bullock discusses committee initiatives including building awareness, working with the Law Practice Today webzine, and reaching outside the ABA to see what is working in law firms and corporate legal departments. Bullock was a past Chair of the Law Practice Division, is Associate Dean for Teaching and Faculty Development and a Professor of Law at Florida A and M University College of Law, and has worked with law firms on practice management skills.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews E-Lawyering Task Force Co-Chair Chad Burton and Vice-Chair Adriana Linares at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Together, they discuss core components to delivering legal services using technology, helping clients be more comfortable using portals to exchange information, and the future of the E-Lawyering Task Force in 2015. Chad Burton and Adriana Linares are both in the forefront of facilitating the use of technology for lawyers and legal professionals.

New Solo host Adriana Linares interviews Reba Nance at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Nance discusses the ABA Techshow, her unique view on how the division can work with State and Local Bars, and the benefits of legal professionals getting involved with the committees or sections. Nance is the Director of Law Practice Management/Risk Management at the Colorado Bar Association.

The Digital Edge host Jim Calloway interviews Law Practice Magazine Editor-in-Chief John Bowers at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Bowers gives examples of top themes covered such as data security and work/life balance, his favorite articles including one with Richard Susskind, and how lawyers and other legal professionals can subscribe to the magazine in print, online, or through the Law Practice App. John Bowers works with lawyers in business development and marketing. He was previously the editor-in-chief of the Law Practice Division's Webzine and has been working with the division since 2006.

The Digital Edge host Jim Calloway interviews Law Practice Today Editor-in-Chief Micah Buchdahl about the Webzine at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Buchdahl gives some examples of high quality content topics the webzine provides, how they are doing Local and State Bar outreach, and explains how previously unpublished lawyers can be involved in writing content for Law Practice Today. Previously a sports and entertainment lawyer, Micah Buchdahl now works with law firms on marketing and business development strategies.

The Digital Edge host Jim Calloway interviews Robert Young about the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Young explains the rebranding of the division from the law practice management section of the ABA and the four core groups now included: marketing, technology, finance, and law firm management. He suggests that every lawyer be a member and gives some examples of available resources from the Legal Technology Resource Center. Robert Young has been a personal injury defense litigator for 25 years and is the current Chair of the Law Practice Division.

New Solo host Adriana Linares interviews Tom Bolt, Chair Elect of the American Bar Association Law Practice Division at the 2014 Fall Meeting. Bolt discusses the all-encompassing nature of the division including legal marketing, management, finance, and technology, and opportunities to network nationally and internationally. The division is expanding local outreach to law schools and local communities and he is pleased with the connection to the Women Rainmakers Board. As Chair-Elect, Tom Bolt has many ideas about the future of the Law Practice Division in 2015.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews ABA Techshow Board Chair Brett Burney at the 2014 ABA Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Burney explains how the Techshow is a 2 and 1/2 day conference focused on providing lawyers with technology information. He encourages all lawyers, legal professionals, and law firm employees to attend to learn about technology such as iPads or going paperless on an individual level from devoted speakers. Burney and Colletti also discuss the Expo Hall setup, his board's contribution to the event, and succession planning. In Addition to being the Chair of the ABA Techshow Board, Brett Burney is Principal of Burney Consultants LLC, and is very active in the Mac-using lawyer community.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews Anne Collier at the 2014 Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Collier describes her workshops for the ABA Women Rainmakers Mid Career Workshop. She discusses understanding your personality type through tests like Myers-Briggs, creating systems to help manage stress, and how women can use these skills to increase happiness and success. Anne Collier is a member of the Women Rainmakers Board and started Arudia, a coaching company to help lawyers and professionals with leadership, business development, and personal branding.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews liaison for the Young Lawyer Division Ireneo Reus at the 2014 ABA Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Reus discusses future projects for the Young Lawyer Division focusing on homelessness and street youth and how pro-bono work is implemented. He also explains recruitment age for the division, the level of national and international recruitment and networking, and how this leads to referrals. Starting in the Young Lawyer Division, he says, is extremely beneficial because it leads to connections and gateways into leadership roles within the ABA. Ireneo Reus is the National Representative from the National Asian Pacific American Bar Association and has his own practice serving as outside corporate counsel for business owners in healthcare and media.

The Kennedy-Mighell Report host Dennis Kennedy interviews Linda Klein at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Klein discusses her involvement with the ABA and Women Rainmakers Board, the struggle for women in leadership roles, and how generational differences and technology are changing the path of female lawyers. In addition to her history of leadership positions at the ABA, Linda Klein has practiced law for over 30 years and is the managing shareholder at at Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell and Berkowitz, PC.

The Kennedy-Mighell Report host Dennis Kennedy interviews host Tom Mighell at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Together they discuss how the Law Practice Division helps new authors publish legal issues through their webzine, blog opportunities, and even book authorship. Many exciting new book topics being published by the ABA include alternative fees, internet legal research, encryption, ethics, and legal technology. Kennedy and Mighell talk about their new book, Flying Solo, which helps solo practitioners with operations, marketing, and finance management. Mighell finishes by discussing how he has benefited from the Law Practice Division, why lawyers should get involved, and how anyone can be considered to write a book. Tom Mighell started as a practicing lawyer for a defense firm in Texas, became a legal technology support coordinator and is now a consultant at Contoural. He became involved with the ABA through the Techshow Board, has been Chair of the Board, and has been Chair of the Law Practice Division.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews Cheryl Niro at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Niro explains her negotiation training sessions at the Women Rainmakers Board Mid Career Workshop, and how law school does not have proper, in-depth negotiation training. She discusses gender-related issues and shadow negotiations, methods to overcome negative outcomes, and how to accept conflict as a facilitator of change. Cheryl Niro is the Senior Strategy Advisor to the Executive Director of the ABA, was the second woman President of the Illinois State Bar Association, started the Illinois Supreme Court Commision on Professionalism, and has been a practicing attorney across many fields of law.

New Solo host Adriana Linares interviews eLawyering Task Force Co-Chair Marc Lauritsen at the 2014 American Bar Association Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. eLawyering is defined as providing legal services to clients through a secure online portal. The eLawyering Task Force, Lauritsen explains, stimulates conversation among practitioners about the future of law practice and how lawyers can use the internet to serve the unmet legal needs of the middle class. He and Linares discuss benefits the Task Force can provide to attorneys, how the profession is changing, and how to include law students. Mark Lauritsen started as a legal aid lawyer, became a clinical instructor at Harvard Law School, was directed towards legal technology, and now runs a consulting firm called Capstone Practice Systems, Inc.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews President-Elect of the American Bar Association Paulette Brown at the 2014 ABA Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. Brown explains the concepts from her speeches at the ABA Women Rainmakers Mid-Career Workshop and the Earl B. Gilliam Bar Association. She describes the need for female attorneys to not conform to expectations and seek out leadership roles within the legal profession. Brown also emphasizes the importance for all lawyers to find a balance in their lives including sleep, family, and finding something that helps clear the mind. She then gives her experience with the ABA, interaction with the current President William Hubbard, and why young lawyers should be involved. Paulette Brown has been a lawyer for 38 years, worked for Fortune 500 companies, owned a firm for 15 years, and is now a partner in the Morristown, New Jersey office of Edwards Wildman Palmer LLP. She has been involved with the American Bar Association since she graduated from law school.

Legal Talk Network Producer Laurence Colletti interviews Vice Chair of the Women Rainmakers Board Leona Frank at the 2014 ABA Law Practice Division Fall Meeting. She discusses the history of the Women Rainmakers Board, the focus on newer female attorneys heading towards leadership roles, and how women should mold the legal profession around themselves, not fit in. She also explains how the group address the underrepresentation of female leadership within legal professions through networking, mentoring, and local programming. Leona Frank is a solo practitioner, a strategist for professional athletes, and has been Secretary of the ABA Law Practice Division, among many other impressive titles.