Podcasts about McLaughlin group

By Walt HickeyWelcome to the Numlock Sunday edition.This week, I spoke to Alyssa Rosenberg, Sunny Bunch and Peter Suderman, the three panelists of the outstanding film podcast Across the Movie Aisle. I really enjoy the show and have been a longtime fan of their individual work.I think that they're a group with genuinely diverse opinions but who have a lot of love for cinema and as a result have some of the most deeply interesting conversations about the art form of any show I listen to. The show just split off from The Bulwark's network and is striking it out independently. Do check them out!This interview has been condensed and edited. Hey, Across the Movie Aisle. Thank you so much for coming on Numlock. I really appreciate it.Absolutely.Thank you for having us.Yes, this is the first three-on-one conversation that I've ever done here, so we're gonna have to juggle a bit. Either way, I am just such a fan of the show. I really, really enjoyed it, subscribed to the Bulwark for it when I heard that you guys were going independent. I was really excited to see what was motivating that, what opportunities you were seeing out there. It's just such a really fun program, and I think it's so unique in the space.Before we get into talking about the movies, do you wanna talk a little bit about where this show came from, where it started, then what you would say your perspective on the film industry is?Sonny: Sure.Alyssa: Who wants to tell the story?Sonny: The origin of the show was back in 2019. I started working for an independent film studio that's based in Dallas, where I live now. I moved here for the job. The pitch was, “it's like Fangoria,” but for action movies and thrillers and heist movies, that sort of thing. And one of the things I wanted to do when we came over was a little podcast network. We were gonna have some shows, some storytelling things, et cetera. And one of the things I had wanted to do for a while (and hadn't really had an outlet for) was a show I had envisioned as like Crossfire or McLaughlin Group or something like that, but by way of movies.So Across the Movie Aisle — I've always shorthanded it as Siskel and Ebert meets Left Right Center. And the idea here is that I am a conservative. I don't know how other people would describe me, but I still think of myself as a center-right person. Alyssa is the center-left person.Peter: Would you even say that you are a neoconservative?Sonny: Well, I'm a neoconservative with libertarian tendencies, which is a funny thing.Peter: “You work at the Weekly Standard,” is a good way to think about your politics? And they basically haven't changed since you worked at The Weekly Standard. Is that fair? That's the long and the short of it.Sonny: Then Peter is whatever Peter is. I'll let him define himself. But the idea here was you have three people with differing political views talking about movies and other stories about movies. The show has two segments. The first is called Controversies and Nontroversies. The second is a review. And the Controversies and Nontroversies segment was initially thought of as we tackle some dumb internet outrage of the day and decide if it's really worth being mad about.And that evolved into something slightly different, right? Right, guys? I feel like it's now more about the business of Hollywood.Alyssa: Yes, exactly. But I think it's worth noting that our story actually starts way before 2019. The three of us were all critics in some respect or other. I was over at ThinkProgress running their culture and sports verticals. Sonny, were you at the Weekly Standard when we started or were you at the Free Beacon then?Sonny: I think I was at the Washington Free Beacon when we met. So it must've been 2012 or 13.Alyssa: The three of us were going to screenings every week and somehow just gravitated towards each other. We would sit together. We were the people who were hanging out and hashing things out together after the screening ended. When I moved to the Washington Post, I ended up bringing Sonny over as a contributor to the blog that I was working on there. They were invited to my wedding. We were authentically contentiously friends years before we started the podcast.I think that's been a little bit of the special sauce for us, right? We are capable of having conversations that are somewhat harder to have elsewhere because (even before we started working together) there were five, six years of trust built up in in-person conversations and discussions over beers at the really terrible bar near the former AMC in Friendship Heights. Nobody is here on this podcast to blow each other up. But it's also not like “We're friends for the camera!”I think the show has always been like both a reflection of our dynamic. It's also the way that we hang out every week, even though Sonny lives in Dallas, and Peter lives in Boston some of the time. So for me, it's like my night out.I mean, as a listener, I really find the appeal to be exactly that. I think that having different perspectives on something as universal as film makes the show super compelling to listen to, even if I don't always necessarily agree with the perspective on it. What makes movies just so good to view from multiple different angles? There are lowercase “c” conservative films, there are lowercase “l” liberal films, that stuff. How do you guys find approaching the current state of the film industry from these different points of view?Peter: Alyssa talked about how our story goes back even before 2019, when the podcast started. And just for people who may not be familiar with the dynamic of Washington that all of us came up in in our 20s, Alyssa was working for ThinkProgress, which was the journalism arm of the Center for American Progress, which is this leading democratic or democratic affiliated think tank. Sonny was working for the Weekly Standard and then for the Washington Free Beacon, these feisty, conservative journalistic outlets.I actually started writing movie reviews for National Review for a couple of years. When I moved over full-time to Reason Magazine, which is where I've been for more than 15 years now, and also to the Washington Times, which is someplace that both Sonny and I wrote for. It's a conservative-leaning paper that has undergone many transformations. If you live in Washington, your social circle and your conversations and your life are so frequently segmented by politics.What we liked about being friends with each other and seeing movies with each other was that we saw that it didn't have to be the case. Movies and art and pop culture, even disagreements about them, were ways that we could come together and maybe not even agree, but like learn about each other. We're really good friends, but we also like each other's minds. This is something that is really important and drew us all together. I have learned a lot about movies from Sonny. I have learned about culture from Alyssa. I don't know if they've learned anything from me. Maybe they've been annoyed about how I'm fine with A.I.Having those perspectives, it's not just that it's like, “Oh, that's nice that you're a little different.” This is a learning opportunity for all of us. It also makes the act of watching movies together much richer. When you're watching the movie, if you're watching it next to Alyssa, I know what she's thinking. Maybe not what I'm thinking, but it's like having another set of eyes. If you're a critic, if you're somebody who likes movies, if you are somebody who likes movies for the social aspect of them, seeing them with somebody else and talking about them afterwards just makes it so much more enjoyable. The fact that we then get to have that conversation in public for an audience that seems to enjoy this is really rewarding.Alyssa: I have a very hard time with certain kinds of violence in movies. But I can sit in a theater with Peter, and he can tell me when I need to cover my eyes, but also when I'm gonna be okay when it's over. And he's always right, right? And that's the thing that we get.Peter: But also when we see the Taylor Swift movie, I show up, and Alyssa has friendship bracelets for us. Everybody's bringing something to the party here.Alyssa: Peter, you joked about whether or not we've gotten anything from you. And I actually think that in some ways, I'm the one of us whose politics and aesthetics have changed most as a result of doing the show with both of you. I came up in an era of lefty cultural criticism when there were real incentives for tearing things apart. And I think I, in some ways early in my career, helped advance a fairly doctrinaire vision of what political conversations about art should be. And I have some regrets about some of the things that I wrote and some non-regrets too. I did a lot of work at that point in my career that I liked a lot.But one of the things I've come to believe in my conversation with these guys is that art is at its most politically powerful not when it affirms an agenda or a worldview that is defined by a political movement, but it is at its most powerful and interesting when it creates space for conversations that are not possible in conventional political formats and political venues. I think the unpredictability of movies and the inability to shove movies neatly into a partisan schema is where their power comes from.It is not in being subordinate to an agenda, but in opening the space for new possibilities. And I think that having a space to come to that conclusion made me a better critic and a better person. Maybe less employable as someone who writes about this stuff full-time in a predictable way. But I really enjoy seeing the world through the lenses that Peter and Sonny helped me apply to all of this.Peter: And just to underline that really quickly, a little bit more. One of the things that brings all of us together is that we are all three people who moved to Washington to work in political journalism, to work in discourse about politics. We have very strongly held beliefs. At the same time, I think all three of us come to movies, to art and to culture thinking, “You know what, you can make good art. You can make a great movie that maybe I find doesn't in any way align with my beliefs, right?” It has nothing to do with my political world or is even critical of my political worldview, but it's still a great movie.And this is a thing that you see very rarely in Washington and political discussions of art and film, but also in criticism. You have so much criticism that is out there, especially in the movie criticism world, that is just straightforwardly, politically determined. I don't think that that is the best way to approach art and to live a life that is about art because. Of course, it engages with politics. And of course you have to talk about that. And of course, you have to deal with that, but it's not just politics. If what you want from a movie is for it to be an op-ed, then what you want isn't a movie, it's an op-ed.I think that's really interesting. And actually, let's dive into that real quick. We'll go around the horn, perhaps. Peter, you brought it up. What is an example of a film or a piece of media that maybe either subverts or goes upstream compared to your personal politics that you nevertheless enjoyed? Or you, nevertheless, in spite of where you were coming from on that, really tended to like?Peter: So we all had mixed reactions to Paul Anderson's, P.T. Anderson's One Battle After Another, which is quite a political film, just came out. All of us thought that on a micro level, scene by scene, as a piece of filmmaking, it's genius. But on a macro level, its big ideas are kind of a mess. I go back to another Paul Anderson film from the aughts, There Will Be Blood, which is fairly critical of capitalism and of the capitalist tendencies that are deeply rooted in America. And it's not just a polemic, just an op-ed. It's not something that you can sum up in a tweet. It is quite a complex film in so many ways. And I'm a capitalist. I am a libertarian. I am a markets guy. And it is, I love that movie.Sonny and I frequently have arguments over whether There Will Be Blood is the first or second best movie of the last 25 years or so. Sonny thinks it's maybe the best. I think it's the second best. This is a movie that I think offers a deep critique of my ideology and my political worldview. But it is so profound on an artistic character narrative, just deep engagement level. I could talk about it for a long time. It's a movie I really love that doesn't support what I believe about politics in the world.Yeah, Sonny, how about you?Sonny: Bernardo Bertolucci's The Last Emperor is commie agitprop, but it's also very good. It's one of those movies where the lesson of the movie is literally “The elite overclass needs to be taught how to pee correctly in a bucket, so as not to annoy the normals.” But it's a beautiful movie, including the bucket. You don't have to agree with a film's politics to recognize that it is a great movie. It certainly doesn't hurt. I flipped through my rankings, and a lot of it does line up.But another one is JFK. Oliver Stone's JFK is a movie that is nonsense as history. If you look at it as a history text, you are reading the film wrong. What it excels at and the way that it is great is that it's the absolute perfect distillation of sitting next to an insane conspiracy theorist and hearing them ramble. The way that Oliver Stone edits together all of these disparate ideas — the way he edits is like hearing a conspiracy theorist talk.The way a conspiracy theorist talks is that they overwhelm you with information. They will just throw out random things and be like, “And this is connected to this, and this is connected to this.” And you are not able to actually judge these things because you have no idea really what they're talking about. You're not steeped in this stuff like they are, but it all sounds right. And all of a sudden, yeah, I believe that the military industrial complex murdered JFK at the behest of a fascist homosexual conspiracy, which is just another amusing little element to JFK by Oliver Stone.Those would be two examples, I would say.I love that. Alyssa, how about you?Alyssa: I would say Dirty Harry. I did a huge project about 10 years ago on depictions of the police in pop culture. And the ways in which law enforcement, as an industry, has actually really shaped their depictions on film. And look, I don't think the police always get everything right. And I think that shooting people is not a viable solution to a crime, especially without a trial. But God damn, does Clint Eastwood make like a sweater and a blazer and a real big gun look awesome, right?Sonny: Those are things that look awesome. Of course, they look awesome on Clint Eastwood.Alyssa: Of course, they look awesome, but they look especially awesome on Clint Eastwood. And they look even more awesome when he's shooting a crazed hippie who has commandeered a busSonny: Full of children.Alyssa: Yes, a bus full of children. The evil hippie deserves to get shot, and Clint Eastwood is the man to set things right. The thing about aesthetics is that they can get you to set aside your politics momentarily in a theoretical way. But I also think that good movies can get you access to spaces and mindsets that you might not have access to otherwise.When you asked that question, the movie that I immediately thought of, not necessarily of challenging my politics, but like bringing me a place I can't go, is Alex Garland's Warfare from earlier this year. It is one of the best movies I've seen this year. And also a movie about (both as a social and cultural environment) an all-male combat unit in the US military and a situation (the war in Iraq) that I have no access to. I cannot go there. My being in the space would fundamentally transform the space. And that opening sequence with this platoon watching this music video in a weird, sexualized group bonding ritual, I just found fascinating and oddly touching in a way that I think is interesting to watch, especially if you're steeped in left-leaning critiques of traditional masculinity in all-male spaces.And I found that movie, despite how harrowing it was, kind of beautiful and tender to watch in a way. And I just felt very grateful for it.Awesome. Yeah, again, I really appreciate how much thought goes into viewing not only movies as cultural entities, but also their space in politics, but also how the culture can overwhelm that. I really think that you guys have such fun takes on this. I wanna back out a little bit and talk a little bit about this year and this moment. I think one thing I really enjoy about your show is that it's obvious how much you guys really enjoy going to the movies, enjoy consuming this stuff. I know that there's a lot of fairly understandable doom and gloom sometimes around the movie industry, around the exhibition industry. A lot of that, I think, comes from some of the more industry side of things and infects the viewing public's view.I'll just throw it to you. What is a trend or something going on these days within movies or Hollywood that you actually think is a good thing, that you're actually enjoying? Or a transitional moment that you think could be fun? I guess, Sunny, I'll start off with you. I don't know.Sonny: That's a hard question to answer because everything is bad right now.Alyssa: To be clear, this is Sonny's default position about all eras and all things. All things.Peter: He's a cheerful man.Sonny: All things, really. No, everything is bad. But if I were looking at a few green shoots, I like the rise of the draft house style theater, a combination of dining, bar, movie space. I know some people have issues with the waiters scurrying back and forth. And it's not my real cup of tea either, but that's all right. You mentioned this question right before we started taping. I was trying to sketch something out, so I didn't have nothing.But I do think the rise of the boutique Blu-ray and 4K UHD retailers has been a good thing. I don't know that it's enough to save physical media in the film context, but the rise of your Vinegar Syndromes. Criterion, of course, is the longest player in this space, and they've been doing it since the days of Laserdisc. They're very good at what they do, and they have a great catalog.But even smaller places, like your Vinegar Syndromes or your Shout Factory and your Scream Factory. The studios themselves are getting into it. Lionsgate has their Lionsgate limited thing that they do, which is just sucking money out of my pockets. A24 has also been good in this space. I like the idea that there is a small but committed cadre of collectors out there. And it's not just ownership for the sake of ownership. It's not the high fidelity, “the things you own matter. So you should show them off so everybody can see them and see how cool you are” kind of thing. There are actual quality differences to having a disc as opposed to a streaming service, which always come in at lower bit rates, and they look and sound worse.But this is so niche. Very few people who collect this stuff (Blu-rays, 4Ks, et cetera) really understand how niche they are.If you look at the monthly pie chart of sales of discs every month, it's still 50 percent DVD, 20 percent to 25 percent Blu-ray, and then 25 percent to 30 percent 4K, depending on what's out at any given time. But 50 percent of discs are still being bought by people browsing Walmart shelves, like “Ooh, I'll watch this new movie for $5. Sure, why not?”Yeah, having something for the sickos is always something viable, right? Peter, I'll throw it to you.Peter: So, on this podcast, I have probably been the biggest MCU, Marvel Movie Universe booster. What I think is a good thing that is happening right now is that the MCU is in a decline, or at least a reset period. It's not overwhelming Hollywood in the way that it was throughout the 2010s. It's hurting theaters and exhibition because those movies are not performing the way they used to, and that's a downside for real.But what it is doing is creating a space for young filmmakers and for young acting talent to rise up without having to immediately be sucked into the MCU or something comparable, like the DC movies that were trying to start up and never really got going. Now they've rebooted the DC universe with the James Gunn Superman film. But, it really felt like in the 2010s, anyone who was in their 20s or 30s and was a really promising actor or a really promising director was gonna make one or two movies. And then they were gonna get sucked into the Marvel or maybe the Star Wars machine, one of these big franchise things.It wasn't like even 25 years ago when Sam Raimi was making Spider-Man films, and they were very distinctly Sam Raimi films. I mean, you watch the Dr. Octopus POV sequence in Spider-Man 2, and it's the same thing he was doing in Evil Dead, except he had $150 million to make that movie, right?These weren't even altruistic superhero films. They were just being brought in to lend their names a small amount of flavor to whatever it was they were doing. And now, in an era in which the MCU is not gone, but is diminished, a lot of acting talent and a lot of directing talent are going to be free to spend that formative period of third, fourth, fifth, sixth movies to make the things that they wanna make and to experiment.Like I said, this does have downsides. This is not great for theatrical exhibitors who are suffering right now because there are fewer movies and because the big movies are not as big. But in that space, you get the opportunity to try new things. And I love seeing new things, and I love watching new talent develop.That is cool. I like that. Alyssa?Alyssa: I'm glad you said that, Peter, because what I was gonna say is I am delighted to see some of the directors who did time in the MCU or other franchises coming back and making original movies. Obviously, Sinners is one of the big success stories of the year. It's also a success story because Ryan Coogler is not only making franchise movies.I saw Seeing Fruitvale, which turned Fruitvale Station, at the Sundance Film Festival. It was like a seminal moment for me early in my career as a critic. I was like, “Holy God, this guy is great.” Even though I like what he did with the Rocky movies and I like the first Black Panther, I just felt this sense of profound regret for him getting diverted from telling these original stories. I'm really excited for Chloe Zhao's Hamnet. I expect to be emotionally incapacitated by that movie. Honestly, it is great for people who love movies that Immortals was just such a disaster.Peter: Eternals.Sonny: Eternals, that's how good it is we can't even remember the title.Alyssa: Yes, Destin Daniel Cretton is working on a Shang-Chi sequel, but he is also collaborating with Ryan Coogler on a project that I think is drawn from their childhoods.Sonny: He's directing a new Spider-Man movie right now.Alyssa: But there's other stuff coming. There's the possibility of life outside franchises. And, I'm excited to see what some of these folks do when they're not in front of a green screen and when they're telling stories about actual human beings. I am excited to just see more movies like Weapons, like Materialists, coming from younger directors who are still figuring things out, but have interesting things to say. And this year, at least, appears to be able to do okay at the box office.I love that. People are recovering from their exile in Atlanta and have a chance to make some cool movies. You guys have been so generous with your time. I do want to just finish on one last note: where do you assess Hollywood's position within the world to be?Obviously, in the States, they've had a lot of pressure from things like TikTok coming from below, things like the federal government coming from above. But even internationally and geopolitically, you've seen international players start to compete with Hollywood at the Oscars. For instance, in Best Animated Film last year, as well as some big markets shutting down for them, like China is not really doing anything. From a political perspective, where do you assess the state of Hollywood right now?Peter: From a political perspective, I think Hollywood is going to start producing movies that read less overtly liberal, less conventionally left-leaning. I think we're already seeing some of that. I don't mean that Hollywood is suddenly going to be MAGA, that it's suddenly gonna be like reading Buckley's National Review or anything like that. I just mean that at the margins, you're gonna see more movies that don't toe the line in the way that you saw movies before. There was a moment, especially right before and right after the pandemic, where it really felt like too many movies were towing a very predictable left-of-center political line. And it was obvious and there was no nuance to it.Again, I do not oppose movies that may have a different worldview than mine, but it felt like they were running scared in a lot of cases. I mean, in sports, if your team is behind, that's the time when you try new stuff. You don't use the same strategy if you are losing. Hollywood's losing right now. They're losing economically and they're losing as a cultural force. While that's in some ways not great for the art form, that is going to be good for experimentation. And that's gonna be formal and craft experimentation. That's going to be talent. We're going to see new and interesting people. And that's also going to be ideas both for stories and for politics and ideology.Sonny: A big question is what happens with the retrenchment of the global box office? Because I do think, for a long time, you could count on basically two-thirds of the box office of a major Hollywood release coming overseas and one-third coming domestically. And those numbers have, in some cases, inverted. It's closer to 50/50 for more of them. It's not universally true. F1 did more business overseas than domestically, which you might expect for something that's based on F1 racing. But the big question is what happens if the rest of the world is like, “We're not that interested in the big Hollywood blockbuster stuff that we have been eating up for the last 15 or 20 years”?This goes hand in hand with Alyssa's point about originals. That's probably a good thing, honestly. It's probably a good thing to get away from the theory of the movie industry being like, “We need to make things that appeal despite language barriers.” Language matters; words matter. And tailoring your words to the correct audience matters. American movie studio should tailor their stuff to American audiences.Alyssa: And also getting away from the idea of appealing to the Chinese censors who controlled which American movies got access to Chinese markets, which was not the same thing as appealing to Chinese audiences. But yeah, I totally agree.My father-in-law works in the foreign exchange industry, and he said something that I've been thinking about a lot. They're just seeing real declines in people who want to come here or feel comfortable coming here. Until July, I was the letters editor at The Washington Post, and it was astonishing to me just how much rage Canadians were feeling towards the United States. I don't know that these will translate into a rejection of American movies. American culture exports have been unbelievably strong for a long time.But I do see an opening for Korean pop culture, which has already been very popular abroad. I think there's a real chance that we will see a rejection of American culture in some ways. And, it will take Hollywood a while to respond to that. It always lags a little bit. But I do think it would be very interesting to see what more aggressively American movies look like. And I think that could take many forms.But scale is in many ways the enemy of interestingness. If there is not and opportunity to turn everything into a two billion dollar movie because you sell it overseas, what stories do you tell? What actors do you put on screen? What voices do you elevate? And I think the answers to those questions could be really interesting.Peter: I agree with all of this in the sense that I think it will be good for the art form, like I have been saying. But there's a cost to this that all of us should recognize. When budgets get smaller and the market shrinks, that is going to be bad for people who work in the industry. And in particular, it's going to be rough for the below-the-line talent, the people whose names you see at the end credits — when these credits now scroll for 10 minutes after a Marvel movie because they have employed hundreds, maybe even a thousand people.And there was a story in The Wall Street Journal just this summer. You mentioned the time in Atlanta about how Marvel has moved most of its production out of Atlanta. There are people there who had built lives, bought houses, had earned pretty good middle-class incomes, but weren't superstars by any means. Now they don't know what to do because they thought they were living in Hollywood East, and suddenly, Hollywood East doesn't exist anymore.We may be in a position where Hollywood West, as we have long know it, L.A., the film center, also doesn't exist anymore, at least or at least as much smaller, much less important and much less central to filmmaking than it has been for the last nearly 100 years. And again, as a critic, I like the new stuff. I often like the smaller stuff. I'm an American; I want movies made for me. But also, these are people with jobs and livelihoods, and it is going to be hard for them in many cases.Sonny: Oh, I'm glad to see the A.I. King over here take the side of the little guy who's losing out on his on his livelihood.Peter: I think A.I. is going to help the little guy. Small creators are going to have a leg up because of it.Sonny: Sure.All right. Well, I love some of those thoughts, love some of those lessons. Publicly traded companies are famously risk-taking, so we're going to be fine, definitely. Either way, I really do love the show. I really, really enjoy it. I think it's one of the best discussion shows, chat shows about any movie podcast out there. It is really, really fun. It is very cool to see you guys go independent.I just want to throw it to you a little bit. What is your pitch? What is the show? Where can they find it? What's the best way to support it? And where can they find you all?Sonny: The show's a lot like this, like what you just listened to.Alyssa: Peter has developed this catchphrase when Sonny asked him how he's doing to kick off the show, and he always says that he's excited to be talking about movies with friends. We want to be your movie friends. You should come hang out with us. Hopefully, we will be going live a little bit more, maybe meeting up in person some. I will hopefully be doing some writing for our sub stack, if you have missed my blatherings about movies and movie trends.But yeah, come hang out with us every week. We're fun.Sonny: Movieaisle.substack.com. That's where you should go. You should I'm I'm I'm sure I'm sure there will be a link to it or something. Movieaisle.substack.com is where it lives now. We'll have a proper URL at some point.Terrific. And wherever you get your podcasts?Sonny: And wherever you get your podcasts!That's great. Peter, Alyssa, Sonny, thank you so much. This is really, really fun. Again, I really dig the show so much. I'm very, very happy for you guys being able to spring out independent. So really, thanks for coming on.Edited by Crystal WangIf you have anything you'd like to see in this Sunday special, shoot me an email. Comment below! Thanks for reading, and thanks so much for supporting Numlock.Thank you so much for becoming a paid subscriber! Send links to me on Twitter at @WaltHickey or email me with numbers, tips or feedback at walt@numlock.news. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.numlock.com/subscribe

Nate, Phil, Abby, and Patrick get together and talk about a lot of things that are not St. Louis CITY SC soccer, because really, what's the point?

Eleanor Clift joins The Great Battlefield podcast to talk about her career as a reporter for Newsweek, covering Jimmy Carter in the 1976 primary, being a panelist on The McLaughlin Group and now as a columnist for the Daily Beast.

Since so many of our fellow conservative podcasts are taking the holidays off, we decided to do another special mid-week edition to observe the new year, and gear up for some changes. Last year's end of year show featured some low-probability but plausible predictions for 2024 (inspired by the late Wall Street guru Byron Weins' annual practice, which was often right), and unlike other shows that never track prediction accuracy (like the McLaughlin Group, which had a terrible record once someone checked), we decided to do a scorecard. Steve was 0 for 6; John was 5 for 8 (depending on how you score partial credit); Lucretia didn't make any new year's predictions, but pointed out that ALL of her mid-year predictions came true, especially J.D. Vance for running mate.We offered a few new low-probabilty predictions for 2025, but you'll have to listen to get them. Steve offers one of his as a teaser: some time in 2025 an elite or major university (could be a state flagship) will fire their president and senior administrators, and bring in a team to "clean house," which will mean closing whole departments and programs that teach anti-Semitic ideology, and eliminating faculty positions attached to these poisonous programs.From there we resume our unfinished argment from last week about discrimination and the 14th Amendment, and come to some unsatisfactory conclusions.Now the news: We're taking this weekend off from our usual Saturday show, and won't be back until January 11 or so. We're going to be re-tooling the podcast with some format changes. Stay tuned for details as they become available!

The PRI All Stars are back to hand out their annual year end awards to the biggest winners and losers of 2024.  What were the year's best and worst ideas?  What were the fairest and bummest wraps of the year?  Who is destined for stardom and oblivion?  Sit back and enjoy the honorees selected by the PRI All Stars, handed out in the style of the annual McLaughlin Group year-end awards.

This week Joe, Shari, and jD pore over this week's SNL Hall of Fame episode and proclaim a Hall of Fame and Hall of Shame moment on the week's current episode of SNL. Transcript:Track 4:[0:02] Hi, I'm Thomas Senna, co-host of the SNL Hall of Fame podcast. And I'm Deremy Dove, co-host of the Bigger Than The Game podcast. Deremy and I have joined forces to create a new podcast called Pop Culture 5 to ask the question, what are the five essential things about any given pop culture topic? It could be five essential movies by an actor of our choice. Or five essential songs by a musician of our choice. We're not making a list of our personal favorites, it's the essentials. And we better do a good job of justifying our essentials because one of us will have veto power each episode. And I'm ready to tell Thomas why he's wrong. All right, Dermy. All right. Well, actually, why don't we give everyone an out-of-context peek at what we've been up to? So Pharrell was right next to me, and we looked at each other, and we were kind of like bobbing our heads. He wasn't wearing his hat. Nobody really knew he was kind of wearing. He was kind of incognito. But I had to do a double take. I'm like, that's Pharrell. and then he looked at me you just slipped that in there this big name drop here i was next to my man pharrell like whoa i never heard this everyone so join us to celebrate and discuss the essentials of pop culture listen and subscribe to pop culture 5 wherever you get your podcasts.Track 4:[1:30] Hey, it's time to gather around the water cooler to talk the SNL Hall of Fame.Track 1:[1:40] Hey, it's JD here, and I want to welcome you back to the SNL Hall of Fame water cooler. I am inside the building walking down to the lunchroom right now where we keep the water cooler to meet Shari and Joe. They are there to talk about this week's episode of the SNL Hall of Fame. As well as breaking down the path that this person will have to the Hall of Fame and ranking them as well. And then we will go through the Hall of Fame and Hall of Shame of this week's Saturday Night Live episode. It is the premiere of the 50th season. I am now in the room. I can see Joe and Shari. Shari, how are you doing?Track 2:[2:23] I'm doing excellent. Got my water bottle all filled up from the water cooler and I'm ready to chat.Track 1:[2:29] I am parched. Joe, how about you?Track 3:[2:33] I'm doing good. I am really, really excited about this particular individual that we will be discussing today.Track 1:[2:42] Yeah, it's Bob Odenkirk. Nicole Brady was featured on this episode. She was also in season four with Anna Gassire, nominating Anna Gassire. This time, it's Bob Odenkirk in the writing category. So, Shari, do you want to recap Monday's Hall of Fame episode?Track 2:[3:01] Absolutely. Well, you gave a nice little lead in, J.D. You are the best at that. Getting me prepped. So thank you. Yes, it was Thomas and Nicole. And I had forgotten who she nominated. One of my favorite, Anna Gasteyer. So hopefully Anna gets in, I hope. Yeah. And Nicole did a great job this time, just like she did that time. And Thomas, of course, the consummate conversationalist. They chatted 100 percent. They chatted quite thoroughly about Mr. Odenkirk's career. They started off with some background in the fact that they shot Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. And I didn't want to either. So sorry. But apparently they were shot in New Mexico. I didn't know that. Beth. And I guess Bob was very close with the improv community and would like just show up at things. I thought that was super cool.Track 1:[3:58] Wow.Track 2:[3:59] Thomas and Nicole both said they had never gotten a chance to catch him, but they did compliment him for having such a great relationship with the New Mexican community. So I thought that was pretty cool. And then they broke it down from the beginning to the end. Of course, they started with Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad and How We Know Bob Odenkirk Now. And then they went back in the backward time machine to when he was a young 25-year-old, just starting out. And his time at SNL, of course, they talked quite in detail about his baby, as Thomas called it, the Matt Foley, the motivational speaker. They really did a nice breakdown of that. And several other sketches, some Tom Hanks sketches that he did that I wasn't aware of. And the fact that he worked on Superfans I knew, but I didn't know about Hans and Franz. So it was quite an enlightening discussion. Very detailed and very well researched on both Thomas and Nicole's part.Track 1:[5:02] Well, that's what we expect from those people at this point. And they always deliver. So it's really great. Great. Joe, what do you feel was the thrust of the argument that Nicole made in terms of nominating and advocating for Bob Odenkirk?Track 3:[5:22] What I pulled away from that episode, she didn't really say it specifically, but I just kind of connected the dots.Track 3:[5:31] Something I noticed was he's really, Bob Odenkirk is really good at bringing out a performer's voice.Track 3:[5:41] Now, there's one sketch in particular I'm sure we'll get to that really enhances a certain performer's talent. Talent but uh another one that i learned from from the episode was uh how much he helped dana cardi uh especially with grumpy old man hans and friends now with grumpy old man now if you listen to his podcast or watch the stand-up you see that he kind of riffs and what i've noticed is he finds an attitude puts a voice to it and then riffs jokes and what i imagine what bob odeker helped do was help mold it into a solid cohesive personality so i imagine he dana had most of grumpy old man there and i imagine orton kirk uh pitching some more jokes and give it maybe you know a theme for you know the week or you know for that current um editorial what have you right you know same for Hans and Franz kind of bringing out a performer's voice and you know finding out what's funny about them you know it's this not that oh and then the McLaughlin group that's another one where it seems like it's something Dana Carvey um you know probably came up with the idea well it with but uh.Track 3:[7:07] But like I mentioned in the episode, you got Michael Conan, who are like Harvard grads, who are really good at being with political stuff. And then Odenkirk, who I don't think he went to an Ivy League school.Track 1:[7:24] He did not, no.Track 3:[7:26] Still finding that voice, like what makes McLaughlin Group funny and contributing to that as he does.Track 1:[7:34] Yeah yeah you you put it well both of you i i i think odin kirk is certainly a deserving, member of the hall of fame if you thought if you look at saturday night live this is uh he's there for the second golden age.Track 2:[7:52] And you.Track 1:[7:54] Know that's not an accident i don't think.Track 2:[7:56] What do you think sorry oh absolutely not and you know they just did episode 13 of everything you need to know about saturday night live on yes the saturday night network which i feel like we sometimes are commercial for but you know the best is the best and they're awesome and they're awesome and that is the season where mr odin kirk showed up that's right and boy what a start of a season that was Because we were talking about it before we started recording. What an amazing season that was. And the writing, writing, writing. It's all about that writing. The cast was great. Don't get me wrong. But writing, writing, writing. Smigel, Odenkirk, O'Brien. I mean, that's like a murderer's role of writing talent. Just incredible.Track 3:[8:47] And then reacting to TV and movies. I just want to pass through Carcinio that is yes and then enhancing a performer's talent so you got Dana Carvey who does a great art or, great carson almost said the other guy and then uh but mentioning but you know making fun of the carson arsenio conflict at the time so good for you youngsters uh johnny carson has been was at the time this uh he was the host for the tonight show for decades and then he finally had competition in the 90s and then the sketch was the parody of that um you know and it's an excellent perfect.Track 3:[9:34] Note for note parody of what was going on yes but and then and then uh the last thing i want to get because again i just love bob hollycock so i'm sorry if i'm you know uh but then i was just going to go to the bears and uh he this was because uh this came out of the like all of the chicago sports teams or chicago's love for sports teams in the 90s you know it was like the bulls the bears like they were all dominating and uh the bears uh is like i i still know people like this with the you know that love dicka they have the bears you know shirts they watch you know every sunday and then the thing that i want to point out is in the sketch uh it the bears show or whatever is on uh wbbms and which is a cbs affiliate but that's the affiliate that shows the bears football so like that's how accurate the sketch is that the bears show would be on the same network as the bears football oh i love that like and that's a little attention for detail that comes out of um odenkirk because both me and him are from the chicago suburbs he's from um.Track 3:[10:57] Oh it's neighbor neighbor i used to hang out in naperville and uh you know i'm shout out to burbank but like i used to hang out in naperville and um so like yeah like i could it's almost like he's in it like a college senior that is like i got you kid like i know what you're talking about out and i'll put it on tv you know so he spoke my language uh shall we you can talk now sorry no.Track 2:[11:30] Joe that's awesome and i'm not very far from chicago it's funny i'm four hours from chicago and i'm four hours from toronto so i've like i'm right.Track 3:[11:39] There you go where.Track 2:[11:40] You used to be joe and where jayden currently is.Track 1:[11:43] So what you're saying is if we ever uh if we ever do a meet and great. We'll have to do it in Michigan.Track 2:[11:50] Yeah. I'm already planning a trip to Toronto, J.D.Track 1:[11:54] It's in the old noggin.Track 2:[11:57] But anyway, I was taking some notes because I know J.D. Always asks us about who the candidate or the nominee of the week compares to as far as people who are already in the hall. And this week usually I'm a little stumped. But this week it was easy.Track 3:[12:19] Absolutely.Track 2:[12:21] Because there's two in there, and they both have similar trajectories to Bob. I'd say he's closest to Conan. Because does anybody think of Conan's work on SNL when they think of Conan first thing?Track 1:[12:35] No, not really.Track 2:[12:36] They think of late night.Track 1:[12:38] I often wonder about the Conan getting in. I often wonder, you know, what were the circumstances about that?Track 2:[12:45] I wonder as well. I'm surprised that he got in as quickly as he did. I mean, three ballots is fairly quick.Track 1:[12:52] Yeah.Track 2:[12:53] Considering it took Molly and Maya five ballots.Track 1:[12:57] And Frank and the Davis as well. Five ballots.Track 2:[13:00] Five ballots. Yep. But I see Odenkirk in a similar vein to Conan because everybody knows him because of what he's doing now. And he's so huge now. So I think that's going to possibly.Track 1:[13:15] Hinder him?Track 2:[13:16] Slip him in in a couple. Oh, get him in. Okay. Yeah. I think it's going to get him in possibly in less ballots than Conan because people are obsessed with everybody calls Saul. and Breaking Bad, at least here. I don't know about where you're at, Jamie. Oh, for sure. I've never watched either. They're not my bag, but I've heard they're terrific. And, like, I'm a librarian, and, like, the librarians are obsessed with that. Like, they love Breaking Bad. They love Better Close Home. They're always picking on me because I haven't seen either. Same with Schitt's Creek, J.D., which I know is a Canadian product. I'm always hearing about that one, too. But it's like, everyone's like, why don't you watch it? Why don't you watch it? And I just, I don't have an interest, but I think that's going to put him in, again, it's that recency bias. He's in everybody's brain, just like Conan. You can't get away from Conan. He's everywhere.Track 1:[14:09] He is ubiquitous. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great comp. That's a great comp. And it took him three ballots to get in, like you said. So, you know, anything more than that for Odenkirk would, you'd have to say would be a bit of a disappointment. Yeah.Track 3:[14:26] Yeah.Track 2:[14:26] Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think he's, and I think his sketches, he's got more sketches that were reoccurring and like super fans was huge.Track 1:[14:35] Yeah.Track 2:[14:36] Hans and Franz. He had a hand in later on, but he still had a hand in grumpy old man was very, very popular. And of course we got to talk about.Track 3:[14:45] Here we go.Track 2:[14:47] Van down by the river. I mean, come on, come on. And that's his baby. He created that at second city. So I think that gives him, I think he's going to get in and possibly even on a first ballot, maybe second.Track 1:[15:02] Wow.Track 2:[15:03] We'll see.Track 1:[15:04] Shari going out on a limb.Track 2:[15:06] That's a hot take there. That's a hot take.Track 1:[15:11] Well, where do you guys, where do you guys rank them at this point? This will be interesting this week. I think whether or not anybody has shifted from last week. So we are looking at Beck Bennett versus Shari Ohtari. sorry sherry o terry.Track 3:[15:27] Jesus jay versus.Track 1:[15:28] Garrett moore versus adam driver versus you two versus charles barkley versus bob odenkirk where do they stack up this week gang joe.Track 3:[15:40] Okay so these discussions i've been thinking about them during the week and you know my rankings have been and changing um so uh i'll go from bottom to top okay uh there's seven people number seven you two they're a great band but i don't think they contributed a lot to sarian antlion's legacy so i mean they're great when they're on but you know sure charles barkley uh he's great but snl isn't his forte okay so uh so he's better than you two um above him is adam driver he's on his way to being like a tom hanks but he's not there yet so above him is sherry o'terry who's great but like shari my midwest accent uh pointed out she just came and went she came dominated and left and then didn't do anything since.Track 3:[16:40] Beck Bennett is above that. It's above her. He's a great universal performer. Above him is Bob Odenkirk because how much he contributed to other performers. So it's almost like he was there after he left. Like his legacy was there with Motivational Speaker and The Bears. And those characters were still there. Yeah, and then Bob Harcourt was like two shows later. He had the Ben Stiller show and then Mr. Show, and they were still doing Da Bears. And then above him is Garrett Morris, and that's because he's an original cast member, and it's the least he could get as being in the SNL Hall of Fame. If you listen to that episode, you'll see how he was shortchanged, and based on his talent, And the least that he deserves is being in the ethanol hall of fame. So that's my top seven.Track 1:[17:40] How are you, Shari?Track 2:[17:41] Okay. So I take a different angle from Joe. I leave my personal box and I go to the box of the voters. How are they going to vote? I get into their brains a little bit. And I think I'm going to start at the bottom too. And Joe and I line up there. You too. it's that curse of the musical act that we talk about all the time yeah i don't even think they're gonna if they crack 10 are able to stay till next season i'll be surprised charles barkley is going to be just above them and i think he'll make get onto the next ballot but not by much garrett i agree with joe he deserves to be in the hall of fame but memories are short and i just don't think I think people remember him. I do, but I don't know how many. And I know you two do, but I don't know how many others. Same with Sherry O'Terry.Track 1:[18:35] The casual voters.Track 2:[18:37] Yeah, casual voters. Same with Sherry O'Terry. I think she's just going to be right with Garrett because, again, she came and went, and I don't know how many remember her. I think Adam is going to be right here at number three. He's very recent. He's on fire. He does not seem to be leaving the zeitgeist. He's always got something going on and he may show up this season. Who knows? Now, here's where I shook things up a little bit. This episode shook me up a little bit. I banked back down to number two. I think he's going to be just under Bob because Bob did some major sketches and he's huge right now. Whereas Beck's, what is Beck doing? I'm not exactly sure. Taking a little breather maybe and that's fine.Track 1:[19:31] He just signed for a new TV show. Him and Kyle and someone else. Oh, A.D. Bryant. There's three of them joining a TV show that's going into its second season, and I forget the name of the TV show. If you are listening and you remember, send us an email, SNLHOFWC at gmail.com. We would love to hear from you.Track 2:[19:56] Yeah, let us know the name of that show, because I want to try and track it down if it's on any of my streaming services.Track 1:[20:02] Yeah.Track 2:[20:02] But, yeah, I'm giving Bob the top slot here because he's got those great sketches. I mean, come on. Wasn't Matt Foley the number one in the countdown? Again, the Saturday Night Network did a countdown of the characters. I feel like Matt Foley was right there. Or maybe it was catchphrases. Or maybe both. Because Van Down by the River was very high up. and he's that sketch is always in the mix it's really it's you can't talk about snl without talking about that sketch and that's from the mind of bob odenkirk.Track 1:[20:39] Okay we are going to move to a new segment now that we are in the thick of snl season 50 uh there are new episodes to discuss and the angle that we're going to take in the discussion of episodes is we are going to keep Keep it Hall of Fame focused. And we are going to take a look each week. We're going to get one hit from Joe and one hit from Shari on what they think their Hall of Fame moment was for the episode and their Hall of Shame moment for the episode. Will these moments that they identify as Hall of Fame moments, will they come back in the arguments to nominate these people in the future? We'll have to wait and see. Joe. Joe. We'll start with you. Do you want to start Hall of Shame or Hall of Fame, buddy?Track 3:[21:29] I'll start Hall of Fame.Track 1:[21:31] All right.Track 3:[21:31] Because I think it's on everyone's minds, especially if they watched it recently, is the cold open. And I think everyone was looking for Saturday Night Live's reaction to what was going on in the summer. And it scratched that itch perfectly. It addressed Kamala. It addressed Trump. they addressed the cats and dogs the assassination attempts um and then they had cameos it just hit every you know uh note i don't know what phrase yeah i started the phrase i didn't know how to end it but yeah the cold open it just uh it just you know got everyone it's the only thing got everyone caught up like this is yeah we and they addressed everything from the summer uh and then And, you know, you got all the pitch perfect, you know, impressions. You know, you got Maya Rudolph.Track 3:[22:26] And then also I want to mention I was so happy to see Jim Gaffigan for two reasons. One, he was perfect. And two, like he's someone that I should have put on my list that I wanted him to host. Because it's like he's been in the zeitgeist forever. He was in the Jerry Seinfeld Pop Tarts movie. He did Pale Force with Conan. in i recommend you look it up on youtube and he's just been and he's a great comedian that's been around forever and then to see him when he came out i was like happy to see him and i'm like oh yeah we gotta he's good at the impression he's great at that too and then you know and all that stuff um so yeah it was just you know one after another so uh shari oh.Track 2:[23:11] My hall of fame moment There were so many tonight. Oh, my God. So I know that the Lonely Island is already in. But freaking Andy Samberg. I'm sorry. I never swear. Andy Samberg. I did not love him when he was on the show. I did not love him. I did not appreciate him.Track 1:[23:33] Wow.Track 2:[23:34] And now that I listen to the Lonely Island podcast with Seth Meyers and I've watched Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Do you get that? JD, are you able to watch? Have you watched Brooklyn Nine-Nine at all?Track 1:[23:45] Absolutely.Track 2:[23:46] Didn't watch it till just recently. Loved it. And now here he is, not once, but twice. He is the man. He's so funny. Okay. I'm a Jewish girl. So I really appreciated his Hanukkah joke about the White House, getting the White House ready for Christmas. I still, I mean, it's so good to see Andy. I'm just happy he showed up. I don't think it's the last we're going to see of him. He was hilarious as Doug M. Off. I know he'll be back. He and Maya have amazing chemistry. This is a Hall of Famer. I think he should be in there by himself. As well as with the Lonely Island. Because he's, I didn't appreciate him. And now I'm like, homie is so funny. And I never thought of him as an impressionist. And he often says he's not. But he nails Dog Am. I just nailed it. So, so good. So he would be my Hall of Fame.Track 1:[24:52] That's something we need to consider, because if you look, we did that honor for John Mulaney. You know, he struck out as a host, but we have him on the ballot now as a writer. And, you know, Sandberg is in with the Lonely Island as writers. Yeah. They took to the third ballot to get in, which is mind-numbing for me. Absolutely mind-blowing. They should have been first ballot. They changed the show, for heaven's sake. But to have Andy go in on his own, you know, that's, that's fascinating. I like that. And, uh, you know, so stay tuned for the draft folks. Um, we'll be, we'll be doing the season seven draft in January and, uh, maybe you'll hear from Mr. Sandberg again. All right. I hate to do this, but let's go to the hall of shame. We'll stick with Shari. Shari, was there anything in this episode that you would, um, look at with your nose pinch?Track 2:[25:51] They either hit. with the weirdness or they miss with the weirdness and uh that housewives of was it yeah yeah i was expecting more here everybody tries so hard but nobody can save it it's sort of a sinking ship and they're throwing everything at the wall and nothing is sticking um it was a a bit of a disappointment but this was i don't want to spoil for anybody who hasn't seen the episode yet but this was a stellar stellar stellar evening so you know you're not going to hit with every set so that was a little bit of a mess for me.Track 1:[26:36] All right we're going to move to joe now uh and his hall of shame pick.Track 3:[26:42] So it's the same. It's Housewives. Again, I don't want to. Well, for one, let's just point out it's a 10 to 1. And what that means is it's the last sketch of the night. It's probably going to be the shortest. But what why it's a miss for me is the Jean Smart that I know from, I think, Frasier and whatnot. She's very good at being like condescending. And so when I saw the graphic for Real Housewives, I was like, oh, OK, perfect. This is a great premise for her to be condescending. And then instead, without spoiling it, it was about something else. So it was like, she's right there. You can use her as a condescending housewife. But the sketch wasn't about that. It was about something else. And I was like, oh, but they did use her condescending, um, talent in another sketch, uh, without spoiling it. So, uh, you know, so, but that's why it was a miss. It was like, you had, you know, the talent right there, but you use, you had, you had the premise be about something else.Track 1:[27:51] So very interesting. I think that's a nice point because they, when you saw the title card and you saw the, you know, you got a sense of the premise and then you saw the lady sitting around the table, it was an impeccable, you know, it was, it was the best of the best of, of the female cohort. Right. Pretty much. Right. You're expecting a big thing. And then, you know, again, if you haven't watched the episode yet, don't listen. Um, that that's probably the best bet. Uh, but, um, uh, it was, you know, it was more about Dismukes and this physical comedy. And, um, and it, the physical comedy just didn't hit. It just didn't hit the way I thought it might because Andrew Dismukes is so talented.Track 2:[28:43] So good.Track 1:[28:45] Okay. So that gives us our, our hall of fame and hall of shame picks for this week. We'll do that again next week. When we talk about Bill Kenney nominating Danny DeVito, uh, Danny DeVito in the host category has hosted four times, I believe once with his wife, Rhea Perlman. Um, Bill Kenney, of course has been all over this show since season one. Uh, he's been part of the round tables. He's been part of nominated discussions and we expect nothing but, uh, awesomeness from, from our friend Bill.Track 2:[29:20] I'm a giant Danny DeVito fan. Like, I obsess over Taxi, and he is so great in Taxi. And he's so great in everything. And he's got this, this is another show. We were talking about shows that Shari doesn't seem to get a hold of. Everybody loves this Sunny Philadelphia.Track 1:[29:39] It's always sunny in Philadelphia, yeah.Track 2:[29:41] Thank you.Track 1:[29:41] It's been on 20 years, and I haven't seen an episode.Track 2:[29:44] Oh, that makes me feel better, J.D.Track 1:[29:46] Yeah.Track 2:[29:47] Because I just, I tried. It's just not for me.Track 1:[29:50] Okay.Track 2:[29:50] Again i do love danny he's just so so funny yeah so this is this is gonna be a fun episode because and he was enormous in the 80s oh huge like a big actor in the 80s yeah um throw mama from the train ruthless people so movies outside of his tv work uh yeah he was all over the 80s.Track 3:[30:11] He is a a multi-generational talent where Taxi, movies, he was like, he was associated with Taxi, Twins, Matilda, Sunny in Philadelphia. So, trust me, whoever you are out there, Danny DeVito is associated with something that you like and we'll talk about his connections with Saturday Night Live and such.Track 1:[30:42] Absolutely. And we're going to do that next week right here on the SNL Hall of Fame Water Cooler. On behalf of Joe and Shari, I want to wish you well and bid you adieu. We will see you next week. Until then, stay thirsty.Track 4:[31:02] Thanks for listening to the SNL Hall of Fame Water Cooler. To connect with Joe and Shari, join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash SNL HOF. To email the cast, write to SNL HOF WC at gmail.com. Please subscribe, share, rate, and review the show wherever you get your podcasts.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/snlhof/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comKara is a journalist who has covered the business of the Internet since 1994. She was the cofounder and editor-at-large of Recode, and she's worked for the NYT, the WaPo, and the WSJ. She's now the host of the podcast “On with Kara Swisher” and the co-host of the “Pivot” podcast with Scott Galloway, both distributed by New York Magazine. Her new memoir is Burn Book: A Tech Love Story. It's a fun read, and it was good to hang out with her again after many years. We were both web pioneers and it's good to remember those days of the blogosphere. And we get fiery at times.For two clips of our convo — debating how woke the MSM really is, and how readers are smarter than journalists — pop over to our YouTube page. Other topics: Kara's rough childhood on Long Island; losing her dad at an early age and contending with a bad stepdad; her military family and her interest in serving; how DADT made things worse for gays; being an AIDS quilt folder; lesbian tropes; our mutual dislike of Pride parades; her fearlessness as a young reporter; The McLaughlin Group; the condescension of legacy media; tycoons who buy media outlets; Jeff Bezos; Marty Peretz; Friendster, Zip2 and Suck.com; how Facebook was seen as a savior for media; how trolls are chagrined when you talk to them; how Zuckerberg is “lovely but awkward” in person; Bill Gates; Peter Thiel; how gay hookups drove the early internet; how the apps kill serendipity; the power of podcasts for community; how the right innovated direct mail and talk radio; Obama's pioneering with web outreach; how Twitter made January 6 (and Trump himself) possible; Kara watching every single episode of The Apprentice; how Trump's act is getting stale; how social media is not a good business model; Elon Musk; buying Twitter to “make him more interesting at parties”; the Walter Isaacson bio; Elon's vile tweets on Paul Pelosi; his trans daughter; ketamine; Mark Cuban on DEI; abortion in the 2024 election; how social media is fracturing and losing appeal with Gen Z; the decline of cable news; the disinfo on unarmed black men killed by cops; how BLM led to more black lives lost; the grievance-industrial-complex of the right; how its reactionaries just want to “burn s**t down”; why Kara is a China hawk; why she disagrees with Jon Haidt; the TikTok ban; the Twitter Files; Hunter's penis; Tipper Gore and dirty lyrics; and how Kara counsels her four kids about social media and porn.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Adam Moss on the artistic process, Johann Hari on Ozempic, Nellie Bowles on the woke revolution, Noah Smith on the economy, George Will on Trump and conservatism, Bill Maher on everything, and the great Van Jones! Send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

PRI's All Stars - Rowena Itchon, Tim Anaya, Lance Izumi, and Kerry Jackson - are back with their choices for 2023's biggest winners and losers, in our annual tribute to the McLaughlin Group.  We hand out our choices for best and worst ideas of the year, the bummest wraps, and give our predictions for who is destined for stardom in 2024.

It's Mars on Lite as we blast through the topics, McLaughlin Group-style: Radio panels C-SPAN Trump's indictment (recorded pre-April 4) Can Trump run for president in prison? Ryan's presidential impressions on dates PJW's lizard man conspiracies Social media: Mars on Life: @marsonlifeshow on Twitter and Instagram Sebastian Schug: Seabass on YouTube Ryan Mancini: @mancinira (Twitter) and @manciniryan (Instagram) Andrew Martinez: @andrewomartinez (Twitter) Matt Fernandez: @matt_fern (Twitter) and @thewoodseyninja (Instagram) Artwork by Zachary Erberich (@zacharyerberichart) "Space X-plorers" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mars-on-life-show/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mars-on-life-show/support

Today on The McLaughlin Group, should there be a holiday for tying down and tickling women? Pat Buchanan says yes. For weekly bonus episodes, go to patreon.com/mostcontroversial  For all other inquiries, refer to https://linktr.ee/mostcontroversial  

What would The McLaughlin Group say about Donald Trump vs. Ron DeSantis? Michael recreates a conversation in the style of the long-running public affairs show with Mark Halperin, based on his Wide World of News newsletter. Original air date 29 March 2023.

Susan Pendergrass speaks with James Pethokoukis about why advancements in A.I. are cause for optimism, not hysteria. James Pethokoukis, a columnist and an economic policy analyst, is the Dewitt Wallace Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, where he writes and edits the AEIdeas blog and hosts a weekly podcast, “Political Economy with James Pethokoukis.” He is also a columnist for The Week and an official contributor to CNBC. Before joining AEI, he was the Washington columnist for Reuters Breakingviews, the opinion and commentary wing of Thomson Reuters, and the business editor and economics columnist for US News & World Report. Mr. Pethokoukis has written for many publications, including Commentary, Investor's Business Daily, National Review, The New York Times, USA Today, Washington Examiner, and The Weekly Standard. His numerous broadcast appearances include CNN, Fox Business Network, Fox News Channel, “The McLaughlin Group,” MSNBC, and “Nightly Business Report” on PBS. Produced by Show-Me Opportunity

This week, we're going McLaughlin Group, doing a quick roundtable burst of stuff we've been dipping into before the end[...]

Episode 124 of That Was Disappointing is Live.Yo, we're goin' old school!Today's Topic: Master Debaters.If you say it quick enough, it sounds like a double entendre…Join Art and Lex, along with their friends Al and Ben, for this “very special episode” where they maybe/kinda/sorta go back to the roots of the podcast. Everyone brings a topic and debates it's merits. It's like the McLaughlin Group… meets Crystal Meth. Hell, Lex is so flabbergasted by the end that he even jacks up his weekly segment. #squadgoalsTWD Tip of the Week: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt… dumbass.

Stephen takes over on this one and brings along Philadelphia dirtbags Liz Roscher and Justin Klugh to talk about HOLY SHIT THE PHILLIES ARE IN THE WORLD SERIES. It's like The McLaughlin Group for people who flick lit cigarettes at kids in Mets hats and puke on police horses. We talk shit on the Astros, Mattress Mack, and everyone who isn't loving this postseason. Also Justin found a mask of potentially demonic origin and we talk about how the Phillies just keep getting gayer and gayer. Like what we're doing here? Go to Patreon.com/BattingAround to support the show

The McLaughlin Group polling shows 65% of all voters believe the country's on the wrong path. 67% say it's Joe Biden's fault.  60% say we're in a recession and of those voters, 85% say they've been affected.  47% say it's affected them so much they're struggling to meet basic necessities. That's a crisis. McLaughlin says a lot of Dems are breaking with their party, Independents are overwhelmingly with Republicans but Dems will do anything to win. McLaughlin predicts the GOP will pick up between 40-50 seats in the House. In the Senate, 4 Dem incumbents are in trouble and Republicans may have more than 52 seats. We have to make sure these elections are honest, that ballots cast are legitimate.  Right now we can't take anything for granted. We can't allow Dems to change the rules after the elections. GUEST: JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP

71% of voters say the country is on the wrong track, the highest number ever. McLaughlin says 80% of all voters think the economy is getting worse. 4 out of 5 voters say inflation is affecting them and only 5% of voters tell McLaughlin that Roe v Wade was a top issue. When Republicans and Independents were asked if they wanted Donald Trump to run again, 70% said they did. When asked if they would support him 84% said they would. And in a field of 13, President Trump gets 59% to DeSantis 15%. If there was an election today, Trump would destroy Biden electorally and in the popular vote.   GUEST: JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP

Recent polling from the McLaughlin Group and Summit Ministries reveals that nearly 80% of voters believe that people who adhere to the values found in the Bible have the right to express their religious beliefs publicly.Going a step further, the same polling showed that 42% of Americans say they are hesitant or careful to share their opinions on important cultural or political issues for fear they will be taken to task by family, friends, or co-workers.  In addition, nearly a third of Americans are concerned their personal opinions and beliefs could cost them their job.My guest today, Dr. Jeff Myers, heads an organization that is training the next generation of “cancel-proof" Christians who won't self-censor but boldly proclaim God's truth.  His group is doing this with more than 60 years of experience in Christian worldview training for young adults.Dr. Jeff  joins us on the Crossmap Podcast to discuss how cancel culture is being introduced and reinforced throughout society. Listen as he shares what types of things his organization is doing to “stand in the gap" so to speak to thwart cancel culture and he offers a few tips to win this war for our own integrity.Dr. Jeff Myers Links Summit Ministries Website Summit Ministries on Facebook Summit Ministries on Instagram Dr. Jeff Myers on Facebook Links to Crossmap Crossmap Website Crossmap Facebook

Like us, we know many of you feel that there is an agenda to destroy America. Could our country have taken such a nose-dive in the last two years by accident?! We have this conversation in episode 37 with the BRILLIANT MONICA CROWLEY! Monica doesn't hold back as she gives her experienced viewpoint on why and how the leftist leadership in our country has been determined to destroy everything American and what we can do about it. 

Like us, we know many of you feel that there is an agenda to destroy America. Could our country have taken such a nose-dive in the last two years by accident?! We have this conversation in episode 37 with the BRILLIANT MONICA CROWLEY! Monica doesn't hold back as she gives her experienced viewpoint on why and how the leftist leadership in our country has been determined to destroy everything American and what we can do about it. 

Little did Andy know when he let Dave take the controls that he would turn it into a mini-McLaughlin Group (those in the DMV know). In this format Andy and Jen talked about four key questions around Ukraine while Dave attempted to moderate. This discussion dove deep into concerns around the current conflict in the Ukraine, Russian capabilities and organizational defenses, as well as key areas for organizations to remain mindful of! The group landed with a dud when a pop star question fell flat, but Jen quickly picked up and talked about her recent conference attendance and meeting some power people (hi CISA Jen!). The group wrapped up with some some reminders and quick hits before heading into Andy's final 3 questions.  Some of the reference mentioned in the pod include: https://criticalinfrastructuredefense.org/ https://www.cisa.gov/shields-up https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/shields-technical-guidance https://www.cyberscoop.com/ukraine-russia-us-cybersecurity-companies/ https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2022/03/29/mitigating-attacks-against-uninterruptable-power-supply-devices https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2022/03/17/strengthening-cybersecurity-satcom-network-providers-and-customers https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2022/03/15/russian-state-sponsored-cyber-actors-access-network-misconfigured https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2022/03/24/state-sponsored-russian-cyber-actors-targeted-energy-sector-2011 https://www.ic3.gov/Media/News/2022/220325.pdf

This week's guest, Brian Menéndez of Baseball Prospectus and FiveThirtyEight, hops on to talk baseball: why the Rays and Braves are ahead of the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets, the Astros' and Giants' turnarounds, and who's the best player in the game (spoiler: it's not Shohei Otani). The pod ends McLaughlin Group-style with Matthew asking Brian and Jonah their stance on various MLB rule changes. Brian Menéndez (@briantalksbsb) writes for Baseball Prospectus. His work has also appeared in FiveThirtyEight, Beyond the Boxscore, DRays Bay, and The Hardball Times. Follow the Jacobin Sports Show on Twitter: @JacobinSports Email us: jacobinsports@gmail.com

Emily Jashinsky joins this week's podcast to talk about the red and blue divide in America. With polarization at an all-time high, we discuss the media's role as well as what we can expect in a Joe Biden presidency. Is he really here to unify? Emily Jashinsky is a culture editor at The Federalist. She previously covered politics as a commentary writer for the Washington Examiner. Prior to joining the Examiner, Emily was the spokeswoman for Young America's Foundation. She's interviewed leading politicians and entertainers and appeared regularly as a guest on major television news programs, including “Fox News Sunday,” “Media Buzz,” and “The McLaughlin Group.” Her work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, Real Clear Politics, and more. Emily also serves as director of the National Journalism Center. Originally from Wisconsin, she is a graduate of George Washington University.She Thinks is a podcast for women (and men) who are sick of the spin in today's news cycle and are seeking the truth. Once a week, every week, She Thinks host Beverly Hallberg is joined by guests who cut through the clutter and bring you the facts.You don't have to keep up with policy and politics to understand how issues will impact you and the people you care about most. You just have to keep up with us.We make sure you have the information you need to come to your own conclusions. Because, let's face it, you're in control of your own life and can think for yourself.You can listen to the latest She Thinks episode(s) here or wherever you get your podcasts. Then subscribe, rate, and share with your friends. If you are already caught up and want more, join our online community.Sign up for our emails here: http://iwf.org/sign-upIndependent Women's Forum (IWF) believes all issues are women's issues. IWF promotes policies that aren't just well-intended, but actually enhance people's freedoms, opportunities, and choices. IWF doesn't just talk about problems. We identify solutions and take them straight to the playmakers and policy creators. And, as a 501(c)3, IWF educates the public about the most important topics of the day.Check out the Independent Women's Forum website for more information on how policies impact you, your loved ones, and your community: www.iwf.org.Be sure to subscribe to our emails to ensure you're equipped with the facts on the issues you care about most: https://iwf.org/sign-up. Subscribe to IWF's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/IWF06.Follow IWF on social media:- https://twitter.com/iwf on Twitter- https://www.facebook.com/independentwomensforum on Facebook- https://instagram.com/independentwomensforum on Instagram#IWF #SheThinks #AllIssuesAreWomensIssues See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The McLaughlin Group -- December 25, 2020 guest panelist this week is Emily Jashinsky of The Federalist The panel hands out more awards, including those for Most Honest, Most Overrated Story, Biggest Story, Best Reporting, and Most Inspiring Moment. Plus, a look ahead with predictions on who is Destined for Political Stardom and Oblivion. Bonus topic: Domestic 2021 Twitter YouTube facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The McLaughlin Group -- December 18, 2020 guest panelist this week is political analyst Shermichael Singleton The panel takes a look back at the winners and losers, best and worst of 2020 in The McLaughlin Group's first ever Awards Show Bonus topic: a look ahead at foreign policy under a Biden Administration Twitter YouTube facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alex Epstein is a philosopher who argues that “human flourishing” should be the guiding principle of industrial and environmental progress.He founded Center for Industrial Progress (CIP) in 2011 to offer a positive, pro-human alternative to the Green movement. Epstein is the author of The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels (Penguin, 2014), a New York Times bestseller arguing that if we look at the whole picture, human flourishing requires that humanity use more fossil fuels not less.The book has been widely praised as the most persuasive argument ever made for our continuing use of fossil fuels, winning Epstein the “Most Original Thinker of 2014” award from The McLaughlin Group.Epstein, known for his willingness to debate anyone, anytime, has publicly debated leading environmentalist organizations such Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and 350.org over the morality of fossil fuel use.He has made his moral case for fossil fuels at dozens of campuses, including Harvard, Yale, Stanford, and Duke (his alma mater). He has also spoken to employees and leaders at dozens of Fortune 500 energy companies, including ExxonMobil, Chevron, Phillips 66, Valero, Enbridge, and TransCanada.In his speeches and consulting work he helps companies take his pro-human messaging and use it to neutralize attackers, turn non-supporters into supporters, and turn supporters into champions. One of his major goals is to teach millions of employees in the fossil fuel industry to understand the value of what they do and how to communicate it. You can find Epstein at https://industrialprogress.com/, Twitter: @GoIndustrial, FB: @industrialprogress, and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ImproveThePlanet.

Alex Epstein is a philosopher who argues that “human flourishing” should be the guiding principle of industrial and environmental progress.He founded Center for Industrial Progress (CIP) in 2011 to offer a positive, pro-human alternative to the Green movement.Epstein is the author of The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels (Penguin, 2014), a New York Times bestseller arguing that if we look at the whole picture, human flourishing requires that humanity use more fossil fuels not less. (WSJ review here.) The book has been widely praised as the most persuasive argument ever made for our continuing use of fossil fuels, winning Epstein the “Most Original Thinker of 2014” award from The McLaughlin Group.Alex has some hot takes on the issues of climate change and science but why are they so controversial. If we are to completely step away from fossil fuels how much energy output would we use? What would our lives look like without fossil fuels?Enjoy the show with Alex EpsteinConnect with AlexTwitterThe Moral Case for Fossil FuelsCenter for Industrial ProgressThank you to Ambary Gardens for sponsoring the show!Use promo code: busdriver for a 25% discount!Support us on PatreonWe offer tons (yes tons!) of extra content for as little as $2 - including an extra ad-free podcast each month. Your support keeps us going and growingGet the Patreon Benefits!I created The Bus Driver Experience as a way to gain a new perspective from the unique lives of other people - Olympic athletes, monks, porn stars - to not just learn, but EXPERIENCE what it's like to be in their shoes for a day.And do it in a way unlike how every other travel/interview show does it. Most other shows merely talk with these individuals.But talking with these people isn't enough for me.I want to live their unique story. To understand not only what they go through in their day to day, but also why they're doing it. Follow me on YouTube for videos of the experiences with my guests, and other content.For media and collaboration inquiries, or more on the show, contact me by email or visit my website. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

The McLaughlin Group -- April 3, 2020 guest panelist this week is Emily Jashinsky of The Federalist Issue one: National Emergency The panel discusses President Trump's current handling of the crisis. How is he balancing concern about virus spread against desire to re-open the economy? Issue two: Calculating China How should China be addressed in terms of what it knew and what it told us in the early days of the outbreak? What about their recent actions? Issue three: It's an Election Year How does this play out between Joe Biden and Donald Trump? Issue four: How Will Society Change as a Result? As we pass through this crisis, what are some of the long-term ramifications of Coronavirus? Plus: predictions Twitter YouTube facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week on The McLaughlin Group, we tackle issues affecting all Americans. Starting off with the climate and whether or not Republicans should offer their own green new deal. For issue two we take a look at military spending and the Pentagon. And finally we discuss entitlement reform and the national debt. Lively discussion and debate as guest panelist John Schindler, Observer columnist and former intelligence officer, joins the group! Twitter YouTube facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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AB Stoddard guest hosts with Ryan Girdusky as guest panelist. Kavanaugh hearings and Trump at the U.N. highlight this week's discussion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices