Podcast appearances and mentions of sandy rogers

Sunday Morning Worship with guest preacher Sandy Rogers. Park Road Baptist is located Charlotte, NC. For my information, please visit our website at ParkRoadBaptist.org

New customers are great, and to keep them we need to nurture the relationship and build trust. Jason Young tells Kevin that most decisions are based on emotion. So, to continue the relationship, it's important to understand how the guest feels. This is true for both external customers and our teams. It's easy to give a job title or description. It is more difficult to build the culture you want, so you need to be intentional and work together. Key Points Jason Young describes a guest and the connection to hospitality.  He discusses the importance of moving beyond demographics and looking at psychographics.  He shares a few practices that create lifelong customers, including knowing the guest, focusing on feeling as much as function, and focusing on the culture, not the job. Meet Jason Name: Dr. Jason Young  His Story: Jason Young is the co-author of The Come Back Culture: 10 Business Practices That Create Lifelong Customers with Jonathan Malm. He is also the co-author of The Come Back Effect, The Volunteer Effect, and The Volunteer Survival Guide. He is a nationally recognized guest experience consultant and leadership guide as well as a keynote speaker and university professor. Worth Mentioning:  Connect with Jason Young: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonyounglive/ https://twitter.com/ReadBakerBooks This episode is brought to you by... Remarkable Masterclasses. Each masterclass is designed to help you become the remarkable leader and human you were born to be. Details on how to get on board for a specific skill or get discounts each month can be found on our website.   Book Recommendations The Come Back Culture: 10 Business Practices That Create Lifelong Customers by Jason Young and Jonathan Malm  Tricks of the Trade: How to Think about Your Research While You're Doing It by Howard S. Becker  Deep Kindness: A Revolutionary Guide for the Way We Think, Talk, and Act in Kindness by Houston Kraft Digital Body Language: How to Build Trust and Connection, No Matter the Distance by Erica Dhawan  Related Episodes The Feedback Revolution with Margie Mauldin Leading Customer Loyalty with Sandy Rogers  Why Customers Leave with David Avrin  Creating Customer Value with Rob Markey

DOG GONE CALM, Vol. 1 FULL ALBUM ON ALL STREAMING CHANNELS:Click to listen on your favorite streaming appJOIN THE DOG  GONE CALM CLUB WAITLIST:WaitlistMUSIC ON THIS EPISODE:Excerpts (intro and outro) Vivaldi Largo Winter from Four Seasons, Arranged for Left Hand by Lisa SpectorGUEST SANDY ROGERSACE Dog SportsOnline CoursesINTERVIEW  HIGHLIGHTS5:45 Why dog behavior is not predictable. 7:50 The importance of doing one thing at a time. 9:33 Looking at your dog's behaviors as questions. 11:30 Why you don't want to change your response when your dog doesn't respond. 13:13 Getting your dog on the right track13:30 Creating communication with your dog 17:00 Protecting your dog's understanding17:38 Being fair to your dog18:15 Honoring your dog's brilliance29:00 How massage has really helped calm and focus Sandy's dogHOW TO LEAVE A REVIEW:Gina shows you here YOUR TREAT AT MYZENPET.COM:Training Tips for Canine Sound TherapyPET LOVER'S SUMMIT: June 27 - July 17Featuring Creating A Healthy Soundscape For Your Pet with Lisa Spector on July 14OTHER LINKS:Instagram: @My_Zen_Pet   @LisaSpectorPianoFacebook:       My Zen Pet      LisaSpectorPianistPodcast Website: MyZenPet.com/podcastLisa Spector's Website: LisaSpector.comClubhouse: @lisaspectorYouTube: LisaSpector

Join Jamie and Maggie Clark with their guests, Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan, as they talk about their book, Wisdom of the Silver Sisters. Sharyn is a writer and feng shui consultant, while Sandy is known as the Referral Queen. They share how the book came to be with it having 45 female authors.   45 Women, 45 Stories Wisdom of the Silver Sisters is a compilation of unique stories from 45 female authors. The anthology spotlights business expertise, holistic healing, leadership, spirituality, and even time traveling. Each story included in the book offers an opportunity to connect to the author's wisdom, whether through experience or expertise. The book came to be when Sharyn had a vision, and that started her to approach the other authors. Wisdom of the Silver Sisters is a number one best-seller and has five stars on Amazon.   Magic in a Book It is a challenge to make a collection of different stories that still tie up to a central theme. With 45 women writing each their part in the book, Sharyn believed there was magic that happened in the compilation stage. They decided that the book would be free-flowing, and what was surprising was that there was not a single chapter with the same topic. Categories were set just to give an idea to the authors, that is, to share the wisdom they have experienced in their lives, whatever the topic may be.    About Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan: Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan are two of the 45 women who compiled their stories in their book, Wisdom of the Silver Sisters. Sandy is known as the Referral Queen and is an active member of the spiritual community in Phoenix. Sharyn, meanwhile, is a writer and feng shui consultant and has authored eight books and two collaborative books.   Outline of the Episode: [02:47] An anthology of unique stories from 45 female writers [09:11] How they briefed the ladies in terms of the initial idea of the book [11:59] There is at least a chapter anyone can relate to [17:29] Writing can be healing [18:57] Hints of a next project with some male energy [22:36] Spiritual practice in the form of writing and the importance of storytelling to culture [29:07] Psychic gift triggers from writing [34:20] Spiritual awakenings from the book and other tools and modalities [42:43] What is next after Wisdom of the Silver Sisters [46:16] Sharyn's recommendation of the books she authored   Resources: Sandy Rogers Website: https://asksandyrogers.com/ Wisdom of the Silver Stars Website: https://wisdomofthesilversisters.com   Connect with Jamie and Maggie! Website: www.psychicevolution.net JOIN THE EVOLUTION in the Psychic Evolution FREE Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/PsychicEvolution Become an Inner Eye Member: https://psychicevolution.supercast.tech/

Join Jamie and Maggie Clark with their guests, Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan, as they talk about their book, Wisdom of the Silver Sisters. Sharyn is a writer and feng shui consultant, while Sandy is known as the Referral Queen. They share how the book came to be with it having 45 female authors.   45 Women, 45 Stories Wisdom of the Silver Sisters is a compilation of unique stories from 45 female authors. The anthology spotlights business expertise, holistic healing, leadership, spirituality, and even time traveling. Each story included in the book offers an opportunity to connect to the author's wisdom, whether through experience or expertise. The book came to be when Sharyn had a vision, and that started her to approach the other authors. Wisdom of the Silver Sisters is a number one best-seller and has five stars on Amazon.   Magic in a Book It is a challenge to make a collection of different stories that still tie up to a central theme. With 45 women writing each their part in the book, Sharyn believed there was magic that happened in the compilation stage. They decided that the book would be free-flowing, and what was surprising was that there was not a single chapter with the same topic. Categories were set just to give an idea to the authors, that is, to share the wisdom they have experienced in their lives, whatever the topic may be.    About Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan: Sandy Rogers and Sharyn G. Jordan are two of the 45 women who compiled their stories in their book, Wisdom of the Silver Sisters. Sandy is known as the Referral Queen and is an active member of the spiritual community in Phoenix. Sharyn, meanwhile, is a writer and feng shui consultant and has authored eight books and two collaborative books.   Outline of the Episode: [02:47] An anthology of unique stories from 45 female writers [09:11] How they briefed the ladies in terms of the initial idea of the book [11:59] There is at least a chapter anyone can relate to [17:29] Writing can be healing [18:57] Hints of a next project with some male energy [22:36] Spiritual practice in the form of writing and the importance of storytelling to culture [29:07] Psychic gift triggers from writing [34:20] Spiritual awakenings from the book and other tools and modalities [42:43] What is next after Wisdom of the Silver Sisters [46:16] Sharyn's recommendation of the books she authored   Resources: Sandy Rogers Website: https://asksandyrogers.com/ Wisdom of the Silver Stars Website: https://wisdomofthesilversisters.com   Connect with Jamie and Maggie! Website: www.psychicevolution.net JOIN THE EVOLUTION in the Psychic Evolution FREE Facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/PsychicEvolution Become an Inner Eye Member: https://psychicevolution.supercast.tech/

Sandy Rogers, founder of Ace Dog Sports hops on mic with the Rover Reporter to help folks understand the basics of agility.   Are you right for agility?   Is your dog ready for agility? Sandy shares her philosophy of the chemistry between dogs and owners.   Beyond sit and stay, her idea is that […] The post Ready, Set, Go – Do you have an Agility Dog? appeared first on WebTalkRadio.net.

Sandy Rogers has master's degrees in both physics and archaeology. He's used this mix of talents in the development and use of obsidian dating techniques. Links California Rock Art Foundation Contact Chris Webster chris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.com Twitter: @archeowebby Dr. Alan Garfinkel avram1952@yahoo.com ArchPodNet APN Website: https://www.archpodnet.com APN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnet APN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnet APN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnet Tee Public Store Affiliates Wildnote TeePublic Timeular

Sandy Rogers has master's degrees in both physics and archaeology. He's used this mix of talents in the development and use of obsidian dating techniques. Links California Rock Art Foundation Contact Chris Webster chris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.com Twitter: @archeowebby Dr. Alan Garfinkel avram1952@yahoo.com ArchPodNet APN Website: https://www.archpodnet.com APN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnet APN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnet APN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnet Tee Public Store Affiliates Wildnote TeePublic Timeular

Loyal customers generate greater returns and even more powerful word-of-mouth advertising. Loyal employees drive customer loyalty. Regardless what industry you are in, loyalty should be on your radar screen. How do you measure loyalty, why should you, and what can you do to foster it in your customers and in your employees, even in millennials? Tune in to hear this and more.

Loyal customers generate greater returns and even more powerful word-of-mouth advertising. Loyal employees drive customer loyalty. Regardless what industry you are in, loyalty should be on your radar screen. How do you measure loyalty, why should you, and what can you do to foster it in your customers and in your employees, even in millennials? Tune in to hear this and more.

Loyal customers generate greater returns and even more powerful word-of-mouth advertising. Loyal employees drive customer loyalty. Regardless what industry you are in, loyalty should be on your radar screen. How do you measure loyalty, why should you, and what can you do to foster it in your customers and in your employees, even in millennials? Tune in to hear this and more.

Author Langston Hughes, a powerhouse of the Harlem Renaissance and best known for his poetry, published this debut novel in 1930. This stirring coming-of-age tale unfolds in 1930s rural Kansas. A poignant portrait of African-American family life in the early twentieth century, it follows the story of young Sandy Rogers as he grows from a boy to a man. It is a vivid exploration of growing up in a racially divided society, with an absentee father, and strong female figures. A rich and important work, it masterfully echoes the black American experience.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/sweetdreams_radio)

Pregnant at 15, Sandy gave up her baby for adoption. 20 years later, she and her son were reunited, in no small part due to her advocacy efforts and work with Concerned United BirthParents and American Adoption Congress. "My joy comes in working with people, talking to people, being a resource for people." - Sandy Rogers Resilient and capable, Sandy has always found her way, pivoting her career many times until, today, she works full time for a state agency and supports the holistic community she engaged in, through her Ask Sandy Rogers website. Everything she has accomplished is because she went after it. And, as she says, she “is in tremendous gratitude for her good health”. Connect with Sandy Rogers Website: https://www.AskSandyRogers.com   Connect with Gail and Catherine Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Wo70AgingReimagined Instagram: WomenOver70 Website:https://womenover70.com Email: info@womenover70.com Show: Women Over 70 – Aging Reimagined Listen on: Apple Play, Stitcher, Please rate our show and subscribe wherever you listen. This is how we grow.

The Nature Of Loyalty | Join bestselling author and FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Thought Leader, Sandy Rogers, as he talks about what earning customer loyalty should look like and gives front-line leaders permission to earn loyalty in unique and practical ways. Subscribe to the FranklinCovey On Leadership email newsletter and receive weekly videos, tools, articles, and podcasts to help you become a better leader. ow.ly/tH5E30kAxfj Show Loyalty to Earn Loyalty: Reframe the way you approach customer loyalty with this effective paradigm shift. Change your focus from earning loyalty to showing loyalty for immediate and sustainable results. https://resources.franklincovey.com/blog/show-loyalty-to-earn-loyalty Surprise With Unexpected Extras: Engage your team and brainstorm your way to increased customer loyalty with this tool. http://pages.franklincovey.com/2020-Q4-NL-June23_Newsletter-Tool-Download.html

We have the tools for accounting principles, and these have remained unchanged for years. Yet we have no real tool to measure customer loyalty, and every bit of cash flow starts with cash from the customer's pocket. Kevin is joined by Rob Markey. He is the author of a new Harvard Business Review article on how to run a company to maximize customer value, “Are You Undervaluing Your Customers?" He is also the co-author of The Ultimate Question 2.0. Rob believes that customer loyalty and company success go hand in hand. Companies with high satisfaction rankings grow revenues roughly 2.5 times as fast as their industry peers. Leaders need to find ways to get the voice of the customer in front of the entire organization, not just sales or customer service (regardless of the size of the organization.) Rob also shares ways to destroy customer value (a lesson on what not to do). In this episode, Rob discusses: Customer value. Leading for loyalty. Relationship recovery. This episode is brought to you by... 13 Days to Remarkable Leadership, a free leadership video series based on Kevin's book, Remarkable Leadership. You can learn more at https://remarkablepodcast.com/13days  Additional Leadership Resources Book Recommendations: The Ultimate Question 2.0 (Revised and Expanded Edition): How Net Promoter Companies Thrive in a Customer-Driven World by Fred Reichheld and Rob Markey The Essential Drucker: The Best of Sixty Years of Peter Drucker's Essential Writings on Management by Peter F. Drucker Blindness by Jose Saramago Are You Undervaluing Your Customers? Net Promoter System Podcast Net Promoter System Connect with Rob Markey: Website | LinkedIn | Twitter Related Podcast Episodes: Delivering Innovative Service with Chip Bell. Leading Customer Loyalty with Sandy Rogers. Why Customers Leave with David Avrin.

Kevin counts down the most downloaded episodes of 2019. As he recounts each episode, he shares his thoughts on why the conversation was valuable and who may find the most value in the discussion. Additional Leadership Resources Related Podcast Episodes: The Making of a Manager with Julie Zhou. Leading on the Football Field and in Your Field with Michael Lombardi. Leading Customer Loyalty with Sandy Rogers. Scaling Leadership with Robert J. Anderson. How to Think Like Amazon with John Rossman. The Connectors Advantage with Michelle Tillis Lederman. Making Meetings Matter with Elise Keith. Brave New Work with Aaron Dignan. Great Leaders Have No Rules with Kevin Kruse. Proving Your Competence with Jack Nasher.

Everyone in an organisation should be a loyalty leader - Interview with Sandy Rogers of FranklinCovey, the co-author of new book: Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion and the leader of FranklinCovey's Loyalty Practice. Sandy joins me today to talk about the new book, how leading companies develop loyalty (Spoiler alert: it's not about a loyalty programmes), what they do to get in the way of loyalty and how they can put themselves on the right path.

Sandy Rogers's efforts to measure customer experience at Enterprise Rent-A-Car were part of the inspiration for the design of the Net Promoter system. Today, Sandy is the global practice leader for loyalty at Franklin Covey and coauthor of Leading Loyalty, but in this podcast, he also describes how he managed to convince the leaders of Enterprise, a large, successful company, to take chances that would wind up changing their fundamental approach to customer service. It started with figuring out how to measure customer experience. Sandy is someone I've been learning from for many years, and as usual, speaking with him was both inspiring and educational. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.  

Sandy Rogers serves as Managing Director of FranklinCovey’s loyalty practice which is focused on helping large multi-unit operators in retail, healthcare, grocery, food service, lodging, and financial services to accelerate growth through increased customer and employee loyalty. FranklinCovey provides each location in the chain with an accurate and representative measure of employee engagement and customer service along with a process to improve them through more consistent frontline execution. Prior to FranklinCovey, Sandy spent 14 years with Enterprise Rent-A-Car, most recently as Senior Vice President of Corporate Strategy. During his time at Enterprise, he led the turn-around of Enterprise’s London operation, and before this, he served as Vice President of Marketing and Business Development. He led the teams that developed Enterprise’s consumer marketing strategy including the “Pick Enterprise...We’ll Pick You Up” television campaign and ESQi, Enterprise’s comprehensive system for measuring and improving customer service across their 7,000 branch network. Before Enterprise, Sandy held marketing positions at Apple Computer and began his career in brand management at Procter Gamble. Sandy serves on the executive committee for Big Brothers, Big Sisters of Eastern Missouri and chairs the Leadership Council for the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center. Sandy holds a bachelor’s degree from Duke University and an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School    

John chats with Sandy Rogers, co-author of Leading Loyalty, about the actionable steps businesses can take to create deeply loyal customers.

Sandy Rogers, our Business Builders Show guest and his co-authors, Leena Rinne and Shawn Moon, have identified the key differentiators that set loyalty-leading organizations apart from their lesser-performing counterparts.Get started on your loyalty journey with this interesting and relevant interview with Sandy Rogers.Learn more about the book and the authors at franklincovey.comThank you for listening to the Business Builders Show with Marty Wolff. Learn more about me at martywolffbusinesssolutions.com. Learn more about my guest host J. Kelly Hoey at jkellyhoey.co. Call or text me at 570 815 1626 with your comments and questions. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Sandy Rogers shares the three core principles required to earn the devotion of both customer and colleague.   You'll Learn: The 3 core loyalty principles of responsibility, empathy, and generosity How indifference can destroy loyalty The importance of weekly team huddles for reinforcing new behaviors   About Sandy: Sandy Rogers is the leader of FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Practice. He was previously Senior Vice President at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. During his 14 years there, Sandy managed the turnaround of the London, England operation and led the teams that developed Enterprise’s marketing strategy and system for improving customer service across all branches. Before Enterprise, Sandy worked in marketing at Apple Computer and at P&G. He is a graduate of Duke and Harvard Business School.   View transcript, show notes, and links at http://AwesomeAtYourJob.com/ep438

Sandy Rogers is one of the most prolific minds on the topic of customer and employee loyalty. He will change the very way your organization views the topic and will help orient your company towards winning loyal customers and employees for life. Sandy Rogers is a leader of FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Practice, a FranklinCovey offering which helps organizations increase customer and employee loyalty. He was previously the senior vice president at Enterprise Rent-A-Car and during his 14 years there, Sandy managed the turnaround of the London, England, operation and led the teams that developed Enterprise’s marketing and fleet-services strategies, the advertising campaign “Pick Enterprise. We’ll Pick You Up,”and the system for measuring and improving customer service across all branches.   Before Enterprise, he worked in marketing at Apple and brand management at P&G. He has a bachelor's degree from Duke and an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School.   Questions   Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey? Could you tell us a little bit about this loyal to practice? What does it entail? If a company wanted to take on this venture in their organization, what are some of the things that would have to happen? I want you to talk to us about why it's so important to have a healthy internal customer service culture. Could you share with us, you've been in the customer experience realm for quite a bit of time, how do you feel about customer experience on a global level and where do you see it 5 or 10 years from today? What are some important considerations person who operates in the online space should consider to improve on their customer experience, especially seeing that they're lacking that human element? Could you share maybeone online resource tool, website or app that you couldn't absolutely live without in your business? Could you share with us some books that have had the biggest impact on you? What’s one thing that’s going on in your life right now that you’re really excited about – either something that you’re working on to develop yourself or people? Could you tell our listeners where they can find you online? What’s one quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge in your life, you tend to revert to that quote or saying to help you to refocus?   Highlights   Sandy shared that he spent most of his career with Enterprise Rent-A-Car and he joined the company and one of his first challenges was to figure out how to help grow the business faster, in the position of leading marketing and they figured the best way to do that was to provide an experience that would get everybody to tell your friends about Enterprise, so they would come back and help the business grow. And they had no measure of customer service, they thought they were pretty good, across the 3000 branches, they had back then, but they had no metric and so they early on measured it, figured out that they're good overall, but there was huge variation across the chain. And over the next 10 years he and his team, the whole group in Enterprise figured out how to dramatically improve customer service and as a result of what they did, Fred Reichheld at Bain wrote up a book and introduced this whole idea of the Net Promoter Score. And so, at Enterprise he had a lot of different jobs, but when he retired about 10 years ago, Franklin Covey, he got in touch with him about launching a loyalty practice under their umbrella to help other companies build a culture like they had at Enterprise that was really focused on delighting customers to help the business grow faster.   Sandy shared that they do two things. They first help organizations measure the loyalty of their customers today and learn specifically not only what they need to do to improve, but equally important, who on their team needs to improve. They have a real passion for the importance of people in taking an ordinary experience and making it extraordinary. So, you got to know who on your team is terrific and should be studied for best practices and who needs coaching. So, beyond the metrics, the second part of what they do in the Franklin Covey Loyalty Practice is provide training and a method that enabled teams to get better at earning the loyalty of their customers faster.   Yanique asked, if you could share with us what you think that difference is between satisfaction and loyalty and why is it so important?   Sandy shared that just thinking about our own experiences as consumers, we may be satisfied and said, “How was everything?” “Oh, it was fine. Yeah I was satisfied.” But the difference between that and the loyalty that every organization wants from its customers and its employees is huge. With loyalty, not only are customers giving you all of their business, but in addition, they are enthusiastically talking you up, singing your praises, recommending you to all their friends. You have the double impact of their business plus the business of all the people they talked to.   Yanique stated, so loyalty is something that all organizations should aim for?   Sandy stated that he thinks almost every organization that is serious wants loyalty, they want loyalty from their customers. And they've learned over the last 25 years working with hundreds of different organizations that the key to increasing customer loyalty begins with improving employee loyalty.   Yanique shared that she’s happy he touched on that. As a Customer Service Trainer, because that's how I got into having this podcast in the first place. Companies hire me to come in and train their staff in customer service, leadership development employee and team building. And I have found over the years and I've had it reinforced by so many guests that we've interviewed on the podcast that at the end of the day when your service is poor, it's usually a symptom of something that's deeper within the organization and it stems from the employees and of course leadership.   Sandy shared that the customer experience rarely exceeds the employee experience. He actually agrees with Yanique’s thought that we've got to, as an organization, treat employees in a way that they will in turn take great care of our customers. And back to his Enterprise experience, Jack Taylor, the founder of Enterprise Rent-A-Car, which is the largest car rental company in North America and perhaps the world now when you combine Alamo and National, which they also own. He said it's really simple. When people walk out of one of the thousands of Enterprise branches, they should feel like, “Wow, that was one of the best experiences I've ever had.” And we realized that that's all about our people and how the people are treating those customers. So, when Jack would go with him to visit some of the branches that he was overseeing in London, England, he would ask the employees, he'd meet, “Are you having fun?”And he (Sandy) would say, “Jack, why are you asking them if they're having fun? Talk to them about their sales, about their customer service scores.”He called him and many other Sport, he says, “Sport, if they're not having fun, nothing else really matters.”And so, when we think about how do we create an environment where people are having fun - very simply, we believe it's putting them in a position to enrich the lives of other people. Not just the customers, but each other, the people they work with every day. And that's what they talk about in this book through these three core loyalty principles.   Yanique shared that the book focuses on three core loyalty principles and the book is going to be called, as Sandy mentioned prior to the interview, Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion.   The book is going to focus on:   How it is that you can infuse empathy, responsibility, and generosity into every interaction. Make those interactions warm and authentic. Ask the right questions Listen to learn Discover the real job to be done Take ownership of the customer's issue Follow up and strengthen the relationship Share insights openly and kindly Surprise people with unexpected extras and the bonus, Model, Teach and Reinforce these Essential Behaviors Through Weekly Team Huddles.   So, what I'm getting is the book is not only focused on teaching the three principles, but it also is providing the how to as to how you're going to maintain consistency, because that's the challenge in customer experience. So, you go a company and you have a great experience today, but you visit them next month when you travel, if we're to use Enterprise as an example, and the experience you had last month is nothing compared to the one you had this month. And so, how do they maintain being consistent in their behaviors regardless of the location that you've gone to, regardless of the employee that you're dealing with.   Sandy stated that that is such an important observation. Every company in the world has pockets of greatness, where you'll get good service. The difference between a good organization and a great customer service organization comes down to the consistency of great experiences across, every week and all their different locations and people in call centers, etc. And to drive that consistency, we believe you've got to do these two things. One, you've got to have good measures that are telling you every month who's doing a great job and who needs coaching. And second, what they talk about in the book Leading Loyalty is a process to make sure that people understand the principles essential to earning loyalty, to bring those to life each week. So, in the book they talk about having a 15-minute huddle each week with your team and first celebrate the people who are living the principle you talk about last week. Then learn the nuances of how to apply the next one over the following week and then making a commitment to each other to do these things and come back next week and talk about what was successful and what didn't work as well.   Yanique stated that it's definitely having more conversations and helping people to grow and develop because the more robust your team is, the more knowledgeable they are of their shortcomings and limitations, then the better they'll be able to work at improving on those interactions and not repeating the negative behaviors that will create negative experiences.   Sandy agreed and stated that just simply modeling the behavior you want is the first step, but then calling up. We don't need to wait a week to point out, “Gosh Yanique, I just want to tell you. I just saw how you interacted with that customer. That is absolutely fantastic. We just talked about how important empathy is and that was a perfect example.”So, we've got to celebrate every time we see the behaviors that we want to happen more consistently.   Yanique agreed and stated that when you do that, it makes people aware of what it is that is correct and they'll want to repeat that behavior because people love recognition, it's not just about the dollar in terms of getting more money, but it's also about how you made them feel in that experience.   Sandy stated, underline, underscore, it is not just what we measure that drives improvement, it's what gets celebrated. We want to leave our work each day and feeling like, “Wow, I had a good day. Why was that? Cause I made a difference. I was recognized for doing something great for one of my teammates or one of our customers.” And so, the more celebration the better.   Sandy stated that in his own experience as a business and a consumer, sometimes it's absolutely dreadful and we all have those stories. And occasionally it's incredible. And when we think about those incredible experiences that each of us have as customers, we're all customers, it often comes down to the people and how they made us feel. Our behavior delivers the emotional experience essential for earning the fierce loyalty of other people. And so, they really talk about in the book Leading Loyalty that you've got to have a loyalty leader mindset. You've got to begin with this idea that “I am responsible”regardless of what your job is in the organization. You can be the CEO or you could be the assistant or the frontline person, you can choose to be a loyalty leader and adopt a loyalty leader mindset, which simply says, “I am going to earn the loyalty of everybody I encounter by having empathy for them, taking responsibility for what it is they're trying to get done and I'm going to be generous with them.”   Yanique agreed and stated, I had also asked, apart from how you feel about customer experience, where do you see it 5 to 10 years from today? Do you think it's going to change very much? There's so much technology that's being introduced now, there's chatbots, there's so much things that are replacing that human interaction, but I personally believe that at the end of the day, even though these things are there to aid in the client experience, I think still people want to deal with another human being. Do you think that will change much 5 to 10 years from now?   Sandy shared that he thinks increasingly we will see technology used in both positive and negative ways in our experience. If the people designing the technology are doing it with the loyalty principles in mind, if they had empathy for customers, technology is great. We've all learned how to do online banking, we've learned how to check ourselves in for flights, we've learned how to order things from Amazon and when those things are working well, it's terrific. But there are times when we need a human being. He had a problem one time with the Amazon and he actually got a human being and he was blown away by how well that they handled his problem and it gave him tremendous confidence that “Wow, not only did the people who design all of us have empathy for me, but when I do have a problem, there's a human being there that will care and will take responsibility for getting it sorted out.”   Sandy thinks it's going to be both over the next 10 years. It's going to be increased technology, but there will always be that human component that Yanique alluded to.   Sandy shared that every person has a customer, whether they're inside or outside the organization and all of our work directly impacts their experience. The people behind the online customer experience need to ensure that it's fully aligned with the core loyalty principles. So, if he uses whatever brilliant app that has been designed as a customer do you walk away and feel like, “Wow, that was so easy. Whoever designed this is like, they’re a genius. This is so great,”and that comes from having empathy for them as the user. Now, if on the other hand, he’s typing in information that the company should already know, then he’s feeling like, “These people have no empathy for me. What's with that? I've been doing business with them for five years.” So that these principles of empathy, responsibility and generosity have to come through regardless of whether it's a human being interaction or we're using technology to connect with the organization.   Sandy shared that the online tool that he couldn't live without is Google Maps, that's how he gets everywhere.   Yanique shared, this is the first time I've been doing these podcasts as the first guest I've had that said Google Maps.   Sandy stated that in the old days they'd say, “Oh, just go take a left here, drive three blocks, take a right here, take a left there.”  Now, he’ll just put in Google Maps.   Yanique agreed, Google Maps is amazing. And that's very true. I even use it here in Jamaica if I'm going out of town to somewhere that I'm not very familiar with and I'm just amazed at how well it works. It's really accurate to the point, “You've arrived at your destination on the right,” and when you look over, it's exactly where you're going. So, I totally agree.   When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Sandy shared that the book he read back when it first came out, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. That book has just such an enduring value and to just keep revisiting, my children tease me about the seven habits and reminding me, “Oh dad, that doesn't sound very win-win.”You have to live the advice you're preaching to your children.   Yanique agreed, and we all need people in our corner, in our tribe to help keep us accountable because we're human and yes, we read these books and we do our best to try and live these behaviors and attitudes on a daily basis, but sometimes we mess up. That's the truth. So, if we have people in our corner that know what those things are and they can call us out on it, it makes us even more aware and just keeps us aligned.   Sandy shared that that's one of the things they teach in Leading Loyalty. There are three core loyalty principles. The third one is generosity. You got to have empathy for people, take responsibility for helping them and then be generous with them. And one of the ways that we're generous is we share our insights openly. So, if you see something as my coworker or my friend that would really help me, we have a huddle in the book, chapter nine, which describes how do you share insights with and think about millennials and generation z where we've got a lot of confidence about how to share feedback online, but we want to have just as much confidence doing it face to face, in person where we let people know, “Hey listen, I think you're terrific. Can I just share this thought with you?”And we haven't practiced this one that we're teaching in the book.   Yanique stated, a lot of what you've stated since we started this interview has to do with practice and I just want, know if you could emphasize for our listeners how important it is regardless of the industry that you are in or the profession or the roles that you practice on it. You engage in on a daily basis, but in order for you to really master a particular skill or talent, practice is required, that's what builds the consistency.   Sandy stated no question, practice what we learn as kids, practice makes perfect. And when people hear things like empathy, responsibility, generosity, they'll say, “Well, come on. I learned that stuff in kindergarten,” and his response is, “You did. We all did.”And hopefully it's ingrained in our psyche, but just because empathy, responsibility and generosity or common sense, unfortunately they're not common practice in so many of my interactions. And so, to practice and to reinforce, they say, have a huddle once a week, bring your team together for just 15 minutes and celebrate the people who are doing these things, teach them in detail and the nuance is “How can I really discover the real job to be done for somebody,”which is our responsible practice, for example. And then challenge everybody to go try it this week and come back and share. And so, they're creating space within the whirlwind of our busy lives to practice these things so that we get better and better.   Sandy shared that he is really excited about all the feedback they're getting from different organizations running these huddles. Ah, I'll tell you a story. They recommend this huddle process, there's 11 different huddles, 11 chapters in the book, and they had this group of Auto Repair Shops and when they described the empathy, responsibility and generosity, they looked at him like, “Are you nuts? I mean come on. I mean this is, this, that, lovey, dovey, Covey's stuff.”These guys, they have been under the hood of cars, you really expect them to get together and talk about this stuff. They ran these huddles for six months and they had their customer service scores because they were providing metrics and both them and Sandy’s team were very pleasantly surprised by how dramatically they were able to improve their customer service. People get stuck in a rut, they want to get better at customer service, but they don't know how to do it. They get frustrated and for these Auto Repair Shops, they improve their scores by more than 10 points on average. The top three or four shops improved by 20 points. So, he gets excited about working on something that makes a difference.   Yanique stated, and so when the book is released, now people will have a how to process that they can have, a physical, Bible that they can work with that will help them to achieve those kinds of results.   Sandy stated that this is what's different between this book Leading Loyalty and all the other books on Loyalty, which are great by the way. He loves Fred Reichheld’s work on the Net Promoter Score, “The Ultimate Question,” most of the books up until now, talk about the theory of loyalty, about the economics, about what’s the return on investment is by improving. This book talks about a process, they give you the principles, the practices and a process to actually earn greater loyalty. And it's not just from your customers and employees that the principles apply to your personal life too, apply these things to your spouse, your kids, your family and friends.   Yanique agreed and stated, as a matter of fact, there is a principal, I think it's from The Eighth Habit. It's called the 90/10 principle that Covey speaks of and regardless of the workshop that I'm doing, whether it's a leadership workshop or it's an employee workshop, it's for low level employees versus in a C Suite employees, at the end of the day I always introduce the principal at the beginning of the workshop because I think it's so important and it ties back to your initial introduction when you spoke to the fact that in order for people to be loyal, there has to be some emotional engagement and connection there. So, if you're familiar with the principal, Covey says that, “90% of everything that happens to you, it's based on your response and your reaction and 10% you have no control over.”And I think as customer service, people, leaders, employees, frontline people, regardless of where you are in the company, if you remember that fundamental principle that customer comes in blazing, mad, steam coming through their ears saying things that are just unconscionable, you're like, “Oh my goodness, why is this customer saying this to me?” If you can think in your mind, just put yourself in a frame of mind where 10% is that customer, I have no control over their own behavior, what I control how I'm going to respond, I control what I'm going to say, I control the thoughts I'm going to have about this customer, it can really transform that whole interaction.   Sandy agreed and stated that that's taking personal responsibility. You get to choose your response; you carry around weather to use the Stephen Covey phrase. But that's such an important paradigm or mindset to adopt before that nasty customer comes in the door and yells at you for something that you really had nothing to do it. If we've got that mindset, we can say, “You know what, this is not about me.”And I can have empathy. I can say, “Oh my gosh, wow. That is incredibly frustrating, I would be really angry too, tell me more about this.” And just letting people talk about. Enterprise, one of the best ways to create a fiercely loyal customer is to find a problem and then just hear him out. Just say, “Tell me about what happened.” Offer a sincere apology, say, “Oh my gosh. I mean, I totally get that. It was incredibly frustrating,”and then ask in a very sincere way, “What can we do to make this right for you?” And you know, more than 90% of the time the customer will say, “Nothing,I mean wow. I thank you for listening.”A heartfelt apology.   Yanique shared, there are times, as you said, the customer just wants someone to listen, someone to pay attention, someone to not discount or discredit what they're saying by just moving onto the next thing but actually paying attention to this moment now that I'm sharing this experience with you.   Sandy loves that the Chinese character for listen, it contains the symbols for the ears, the eyes and the heart. So often we just use our ears but if we're not listening with our eyes, we're missing the emotion that's being expressed through that clenched fist. And if we're not listening to him with our heart, we're not sensing how upset this person really is. Using all three and so much, it's interesting the word listen and silent, they're the same letters.   Yanique also shared that then there's also the fact that God gave you two ears, but he only gave you one mouth. So, I'm thinking, maybe there is some reason behind that. And it could be that we really need to spend more time listening and less time talking and unfortunately in our society, people do the opposite. There's lots of talking and less listening.   Sandyshared listeners can find him at – Linkedin – Sandy Rogers Facebook - @SandyRogersFC   Sandy shared that his stepfather told him when he was in high school, “No risk it, no biscuit.” Whenever you're feeling comfortable in the shallow end of the pool and feel like you've got it under control, throw yourself in the deep end of the pool and keep going deeper because that’s the only way that we grow as people.     Links   Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion by Sandy Rogers 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey  

Episode 200 - Sandy Rogers, leader of FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Practice, discusses the book "Leading Loyalty" -- a #1 New Release on Amazon -- and ways to crack the code to customer loyalty. Sandy was previously senior vice president at Enterprise Rent-A-Car and during his 14 years there managed the turnaround of the London, England, operation and led the teams that developed Enterprise’s system for improving customer service across all branches. He is a graduate of Duke and Harvard Business School. Listen for three action items you can use today. Host, Kevin Craine Do you want to be a guest? Everyday-MBA.com/guest Do you want to be a sponsor? Everyday-MBA.com/sponsor

Host Cyrus Webb welcomes Sandy Rogers, co-author of the book LEADING LOYALTY: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion to #ConversationsLIVE to discuss the new book and what businesses and entrepreneurs need to understand about customer relationships.

Shep Hyken interviews Sandy Rogers. They discuss his new book, Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion, and the importance of empathy, responsibility, and generosity in the customer experience.  The Interview with Sandy Rogers:During Sandy’s tenure at Enterprise Rent-a-Car, the company focused on improving customer service to drive loyalty. They measured service quality and strove to improve from the bottom up. Over ten years, the company’s customer satisfaction rating grew from 67% to 80%, service quality became more consistent between all branches, and sales tripled. The employees may have stayed the same, but changes in management and expectation directly lead to the improvement.The biggest factor in customer loyalty is empathy. Loyalty is an emotion that can’t always be explained by numbers and figures. Companies need to remember to include the human element when dealing with their customers if they hope to win their hearts, which is the key to winning their business.Empathy and emotional engagement begin inside the company within the employee experience. Companies must respect and empathize with their employees if they want and expect their employees to do the same with their customers. What is felt on the inside of an organization will be felt on the outside.Implement a regular “loyalty huddle” with your team. Use this time to focus on one of the principles of loyalty outlined in the book, such as empathy, responsibility, or generosity. Celebrate successes and create a safe space to discuss things that aren’t working and ideas for improvement.Empower your employees to come up with ideas for improvement and to deliver the best level of customer service they can, even if that means deviating from established policies. It falls to management to lead this charge and advocate for change. Allow good ideas to come from every level of employee, from frontline representative to CEO.Loyalty programs and rewards points may help with customer loyalty, but they’re too easy for competitors to copy. At the end of the day, loyalty will be more driven by empathy and customers’ emotional engagement with a company.There will always be people who will try to cheat the system and take advantage of you. You can’t let those few dictate your business practices, because you will alienate the rest of your customers and lose their loyalty by being difficult to work with. This will only end up hurting your company in the end.As a leader, you must choose to center your company’s culture around the principles of loyalty. Reward and demonstrate the practices you value as central to your goal. You will start to see positive changes not only in your business, but also in your personal life.Quote:  “We must start by earning the fierce loyalty of our employees by treating them with empathy, responsibility, and generosity.” - Sandy Rogers About: Sandy Rogers is the co-author of Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion and the leader of FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Practice. Formerly, Sandy was the senior vice president at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. Shep Hyken is a customer service and experience expert, New York Times bestselling author, award-winning keynote speaker, and your host of Amazing Business Radio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sandy Rogers is the leader of FranklinCovey’s Loyalty Practice, a FranklinCovey offering which helps organizations increase customer and employee loyalty. Prior to FranklinCovey, he was a senior vice president at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. Before making his way to Enterprise, Sandy worked in marketing at Apple and brand management at P&G. Sandy has a bachelor’s degree from Duke and an M.B.A. from Harvard Business School.Sandy's book, Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion is available on April 16th. You can pre-order it now!We discuss:What are the three pillars of loyalty and how was it built into the culture at Apple?What is it about a customer that 'proves' loyalty? How is customer loyalty defined?What is your favorite example of a company that embodies loyalty and has created loyal customers?Sponsor:BetterHelp - Get 10% off your first month - https://betterhelp.com/smartDonate:Donate here to support the show!

Kathryn interviews Author & Clinical Psychologist Carla Marie Manly PhD, author of “Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend”. So many of us go through our lives hampered by painful memories, and instead of denying the fear they create, we need to face it — and heed its inner voice. Dr. Manly's method helps us detach from fear and learn from it and guides us in how to find the meaning in our fears and use it to our benefit. Kathryn also interviews Author & Managing Director FranklinCovey's Loyalty Practice Sandy Rogers MBA, author of “Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion”. In today's hyper-connected world, where customers can switch to another provider with a mouse click or rethink a purchase based on a negative review, earning customers' true loyalty has proven to be elusive. Rogers provides readers with the foundation for building the kind of fierce loyalty that is fueled through positive and emotional interactions with others.

Kathryn interviews Author & Clinical Psychologist Carla Marie Manly PhD, author of “Joy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend”. So many of us go through our lives hampered by painful memories, and instead of denying the fear they create, we need to face it — and heed its inner voice. Dr. Manly's method helps us detach from fear and learn from it and guides us in how to find the meaning in our fears and use it to our benefit. Kathryn also interviews Author & Managing Director FranklinCovey's Loyalty Practice Sandy Rogers MBA, author of “Leading Loyalty: Cracking the Code to Customer Devotion”. In today's hyper-connected world, where customers can switch to another provider with a mouse click or rethink a purchase based on a negative review, earning customers' true loyalty has proven to be elusive. Rogers provides readers with the foundation for building the kind of fierce loyalty that is fueled through positive and emotional interactions with others.

Crack the code to customer devotion. Join Sandy Rogers, customer loyalty expert and former senior vice president at Enterprise Rent-a-Car, to learn how to build fierce loyalty among your customers. Subscribe to FranklinCovey On Leadership and receive weekly videos, tools, articles, and podcasts to help you become a better leader. http://ow.ly/tH5E30kAxfj

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Dr. Amy Cook. Amy has been training dogs for nearly 25 years and has been specializing in the rehabilitation of shy and fearful dogs for over 15 years. She's the creator of The Play Way, her process for helping dogs learn to cope with the world around them. She's also a certified dog behavior consultant, a long-standing professional member of the Association of Professional Dog Trainers, and has attended all four Chicken Camps in Hot Springs, Arkansas taught by Bob Bailey. Amy returned to school in 2006 to get her PhD in psychology from UC Berkeley. Her research there focused on the dog/human relationship and its effect on problem solving strategies dogs employ. She also recently started a blog at playwaydogs.com, and everyone should definitely go check it out. Hey, Amy, welcome to the podcast. Amy Cook: Hi, Melissa. Thanks for having me. This is so exciting. Melissa Breau: I'm very excited to talk to you. To start us out do you want to tell us a little bit about the dogs you have now and what you're working on with them? Amy Cook: Oh, my dogs. You know, when you start people talking on their dogs it's kind of endless, so you're going to have to stop me when you've heard about my lovely dogs. I have currently, I lost my old girl last year who I would have had a lot to say about, but I have currently Marzipan who some people know, she's my Whippet, she's five and a half, I want to say, or so, and with her I mainly do agility. She's been actually out with an injury for now what seems like a million years and since dinosaurs have roamed the earth. She got sort of her foot reconstructed, she had reconstructive surgery on her toe. So it's been a real adventure having a dog go from three classes a week and traveling every weekend to you live in a box. It's been hard on both of us, but also stretching for both of us because of how I can keep her happy in different ways than I used to before. And I have little baby Caper who I think you helped name if I'm not mistaken. She is a ten-month-old terrier, chihuahua-terrier is what she is. Melissa Breau: So what did Marzipan do to her foot that took her out of commission? Amy Cook: You know, yeah, you'd think it would be during sport or something since we do such crazy stuff, but no, we were hiking and I think the crime was that it was not quite winter, it wasn't winter, it was summer, and the ground used to be marshy and now was dry and cracked. I think she just tweaked a toe just running, just not even running a lot, just running kind of a normal amount, and it didn't look injured at all, and so it took so long, it's like, oh, rest it for three weeks, it'll be fine. Then it was like, oh, that wasn't long enough, rest it for eight weeks and it'll be fine. The specialists come in and they're like, you're going to take four months and it'll be fine. Then finally to the agility, fancy agility surgeon and he said, “Yeah, I think we should do some surgery on her toe. It's not healing.” So from that point, I know, it was six weeks of splint and six weeks of bandage and now it's going to be 12 weeks of rehab. You know, it was quite a shock to the system. She's my main partner, my main dog. I didn't have the puppy, she was the only dog I had at the time that happened. So our training life took a turn for a bit. But we're almost there. Almost there. Six more weeks, I hope. Melissa Breau: The end is in sight. Amy Cook: End is in sight. Very happy about that. Melissa Breau: So you mentioned the puppy. Where did the puppy come from? Amy Cook: Caper, she was my unplanned pregnancy as my friend likes to say. God, she was…a friend sent me a picture, I'm like, oh my God, she's so cute, it's a classic story, I just need a little pocket dog, I just need a little…Marzipan is going to be out for a while. My next sport dog will come in 2018, I thought to myself, and I just need a little dog to tide me over, I'll get a little Chihuahua or I'll get a little pocket dog, I'll have a little fun companion for a bit. So that'll be fun. So I get this little sort of try on as a foster dog and the first thing she does from week one is she's bringing me toys, she's pushing me, she's, “Why are we not doing more? I'm not a pocket dog. Put me down. Why are you picking me up? I don't want this. Here's a toy. Can you tug this?” She was so active. It's like I'd adopted a Border Collie puppy. It's crazy. I was like, oh, well, that's not who I thought you were, but I can roll with that. Okay. All right. That's fun. She's a fun little dog. She's really fun to train and she came with focus out of the box. I've barely trained focus in her and she doesn't take her eyes of me. It's crazy. It's really fun. Melissa Breau: She's really cute. Amy Cook: It's a real contrast to Marzipan. She's so cute. And it's a real contrast to Marzipan because I'm used to the sighthound way and she's all terrier, all terrier. I'm learning a lot from that, from working with that psychology, you know? It's different. Melissa Breau: So I know that one of the things about your intro that I don't think I'd known before I started doing some research for the podcast is that you'd been to Chicken Camp, especially four times. So I really want to hear more about that. Just like, what your impressions were, what your thoughts were about it, what was it like? Amy Cook: Amazing. Amazing. I went to Chicken Camp. It's like a friend of mine and I, we went together, and I'm really glad to see that Bob is still here and with us and doing Chicken Camps, but at that time I think it was right after his wife had died and they were doing the camps together, and he wasn't sure how much he was really going to continue. It was like, God, I've been putting this off way too long, we have to go, we have to go. So I actually did I think two in one summer and then two the next summer if I'm not mistaken. I kind of crammed them in. Melissa Breau: Wow. Amy Cook: Yeah. Because I really wanted to take advantage of learning from Bob. There's really nobody like him. At the time I was very, very into clicker trainer, I mean of course still, but I was much more so then. Learning it, learning it a lot on the internet, a lot from books, a lot from just every source I could find and I wanted to go to somebody who was so close to the, I guess I could say origins of it if that's fair to say, and learn as much as I could. Honestly it was absolutely life changing to learn both from him and to train an animal that does not meet you halfway, that does not help at all with the learning process, isn't trying to work with you at all. I think if you can train a dog that's one thing, but it doesn't guarantee you can train another animal. But if you can train a bunch of other animals you can probably train a dog because they make it so much easier on you and the other animals kind of don't, at least that's my impression. So it was wonderful and he's such a good teacher. He knows exactly how to lay just the right amount in front of you. There was one time when a chicken was pecking me like crazy and I was really afraid of her and he actually shaped us both without telling me that's what was happening. So I got the experience of just quietly being compassionately and respectfully shaped. It was just a beautiful experience. I loved chicken camp so much and it changed the way I train fundamentally. Absolutely. Melissa Breau: For anybody out there who might not be familiar with the concept do you want to just briefly kind of explain the idea? Amy Cook: Sure. So what you do is maybe you're a dog trainer, maybe you're a bird or exotic animal trainer, I went to camp with a few of those, or even a psychology professor. If you want to learn how to apply the techniques of operant conditioning in a very controlled environment you can go to Chicken Camp. You pay money to spend a week with Bob and two chickens and a partner and a _____ (16:26) doing the little exercises that he lays out for you. They get increasingly complex and you first start with how do I click and how do I feed this animal in a way that is correct? How do you feed a chicken? They peck. You can't hand them with your hand a piece of feed, right? So you go through all the mechanics of how to train a chicken, clicker train, and then he gives you these little tasks. So it's like, you know, here are some disks, have your chicken peck only the red one and not the yellow or blue one. You're like, oh, piece of cake. I can do that. Famous last words, right? Sure enough, one errant click somewhere because you're late, because dogs can kind of handle you being a little bit late, right, and still progress, one errant late click for the chicken and the chicken goes, oh, all right, got it, and starts doing that thing that you clicked over and over and over again. You're like, no, no, I didn't…wait. I just…could you not? I didn't mean that. No. One click could get you a hundred clicks in the wrong direction to get out. And you really learn to be accurate because you can't afford to make certain kinds of mistakes. And the chicken will get full, so every click and every food they eat is measured. You have to really, really be careful and very, very good, and you make all sorts of sloppy mistakes and you pay for them really harshly. Your chicken does not do anything you thought you were teaching, you're all over the place. You know, you find yourself maybe turning to things you otherwise do with your dogs that maybe you don't realize you do, like oh, come on, just could you just…then you're like, wait, I can't do that to a chicken. Do I do that to my dog? I shouldn't do that to my dog either. It pares you down to the pieces of the technology that actually work and the chicken forces you to get better because she's not going to cover a single mistake that you make, ever. That's it. Click once wrong and oh, boy. You're going to be there all day. Melissa Breau: I definitely think Chicken Camp is on my someday list, on my bucket list, something I would love to do. Amy Cook: For sure. Absolutely. Run, don't walk. For sure. Melissa Breau: So I wanted to ask you too about the early days of FDSA because I believe, I think you actually told me that you were one of the first teachers that Denise brought on at Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. So I was really curious to get some of your impressions on how you think it's changed and kind of what happened when she initially approached you. Amy Cook: Oh, boy. You know, it was standing in the right place at the right time, I swear. You know, she had taught online elsewhere and decided to do this endeavor, and I was just…I'm pretty sure I was just finishing grad school and saying, well, I guess I'm going back to dog training. I wasn't sure what I had in store, I'll just revamp or ramp up my business again, fine. And I can remember, I was standing near a freezer in her garage and I can't exactly remember how it came up but she said, “We have a behavior arm, could you teach what you teach, teach a class in what you do?” Boy, I felt…the answer was both yes and no. The answer is no because I've never done that, but the answer is yes because well, it has to be possible, right? Sure. I'll certainly try it. I really wanted to do something like that. But for a second there I was like, really? Behavior? Behavior, though. I mean, behavior. It's complicated. People are all over the place. Dogs are behaving all over the place. It's a lot to…how will I do this online? But I had faith. She really had vision early on for how this was going to go and we brainstormed, I was really excited about it. She actually came up with the title of the class, Dealing with the Bogeyman, that's hers. She's like, let's call it that. I was like, sure. It was exciting. It was exciting times and I was really just like, well, I'm happy to run a class and see what I can do for people. If it's something I don't feel is resulting in improvements that are reasonable for the dogs I'm helping then it's not right, then online is more suited for skill-based stuff and not so much the concepts or the complicated behaviors. I shouldn't have been afraid because it's been amazing. It's been amazing. I got to say, I think that my online students…oh, well, I wrote a blog post about this because I was just so moved by this. My online students get to their goals faster than in person students do, and there's something very intoxicating about that. To get somebody closer to the resolution in such a shorter amount of time, you know, I was like, well, then I want everybody online. Everybody get online. Everybody, quick. You know? And it's amazing how much contact I have with somebody who takes an online class. They can talk to me every day whereas no in-person client does that or can afford to really. That's the reason. And I get every day almost contact with people trying to apply the lessons, run into problems, and ask again. I get to fine tune it so much. It's like living with people which is what I always want to do when I get a new client. I'm always thinking wow, if I could just move in, you and I together, we could fix your situation and I could help you. But you get an hour a week. It's not enough, you know? And boy, being online with people in amazing and the community that Denise has been able to build through Facebook and all of that. I don't know. I think about it all the time. I think about how much access we have to changing…I know it's ____ (22:34) any other way to say it, changing the world. You know? It's the ripple effect. You have to put it out there and say, this is the way I think we should be doing this, and let me help you with it. And the changes I've seen just in these short few years have been really, really inspiring. I'm so grateful to be a part of it. Melissa Breau: So my understanding is the very first class that you started offering right out of the gate with Denise was the Bogeyman course, right? Amy Cook: It was. It was. And that's all I ran for a long time. Melissa Breau: Do you want to just explain briefly to listeners kind of what the course is and a little bit about the methodology that you use? Amy Cook: Yeah. So the course is Dealing with the Bogeyman, and it's designed for fearful, stressed, reactive dogs, dogs that are overwhelmed with what's going on for them, what they're afraid of, and really getting to the root of problem and really trying to get to the source, get right to the bottom of the problem rather than just kind of manage it which is what we end up doing a lot of times. We find a way to get to about a stasis and we kind of coast along there. But stress is a hard thing to experience. Everybody listening knows exactly what I mean. Wouldn't we all not want to have the stress we have in our lives? Every one of us wants to have a less stress life pretty much because it's hard and I feel that for dogs. It's hard for them to live in our world when they're so stressed. So this class is designed to help with that at a root level. What I do is I use social connection and social play to help get them in a state where they can process their triggers a lot better, and I reduce the use of food, I reduce the use of toys sometimes to zero, but not always all the way to zero, to help them. And it didn't start out…like, it started out, the first iteration of the class is not like the current iteration that's running right now. It has evolved a lot over time. As I watched students have more success with even more play I started emphasizing more and more play. It was a part of the program before but it wasn't as emphasized as it is now. But I've seen the wonders of what it can do, and so now it's really the bulk of what the approach is. I think I might have lost your question in the fact that I'm just talking on. Is that what you're asking? Melissa Breau: Not at all. You actually answered it pretty well. I just wanted you to kind of explain what the Bogeyman course was and kind of what's involved and I think you did that very nicely. I do… Amy Cook: People are going to play. If you take the class you're going to play, play, play, play, and then you're going to play some more, and then your dog is going to get better. That's _____ (25:35). Melissa Breau: So that leads me very well into my next question which is asking you to kind of…I know when you and I talk about it usually you call it kind of The Play Way is like, the name of the methodology even though the course if the Bogeyman course. So I was curious if you wanted to sum kind of what the play way is up in a short blurb. I mean, you talked about it a little bit, but if there's anything kind of you want to add there. Amy Cook: Yeah. The play way is specifically using social play and social connection, so not tug, not fetch, not that kind of thing, but being goofy and silly and making your dog laugh and having a fun time with your dog, and taking that play and using that to directly solve problems that they have with fear. So it's dog centric, it's about the dog, him or herself coming to a new understanding of the thing that they don't currently understand. So if they're afraid of strangers it's because they have a misunderstanding of what the strangers are about, because none of the strangers really mean to hurt them, and I think they don't have enough information. Now it's hard to get dogs to get new information about things that are scary to them because they're scared of them and you can't look at it openly and you can't deal with it as well. Like, I can't deal with spiders. You put one on me, I'm done. I can't deal with that. So if you want to reframe that it's not going to work until you get me distance, you get me in a calm state, and I really found that play puts them in this completely different emotional space that allows for our therapeutic attempts to really take root. And I realize none of that is brief, none of what I just said is brief. I don't think I can be brief. I think I'm genetically wired to be the opposite of. Melissa Breau: But I think it gives people a good idea, right, of what the methodology is and kind of what you're endorsing here. I mean, I think that it's very different probably than what most people are used to hearing about dealing with fear and dealing with dogs' sensitivities which is so often food-based. Amy Cook: It's different from anything I had ever done. I mean, I've been doing this a long time and it's a complete departure for me. It's not at all what I've done most of the time in helping dogs. Melissa Breau: So where did it come from? Where did the idea… Amy Cook: Well, yeah. Kind of…it's an evolving idea I should first say, right, I'm not finished. I mean, I want to keep investigating all of this and putting all the little pieces together. Right now I'm at a place where I've put some pieces together and it's hanging together, it's helping, and that's really exciting. It's sort of this big evolution of influences. I first got together with Denise because I had known her before kind of just from our local training circles, but she and I both got puppies at the same time and they both turned out to have every similar sorts of views on the world and challenges and training. It made us get together kind of more often. Once a week we would talk about it and shoot the breeze about these different things. I started watching her train in person more which I hadn't really done a lot of previous. And the amount of social interaction and the way she was working with her dogs was sort of reminding me of how I had been feeling lately about a lot of clicker training was feeling remote to me, at least at the time. It was feeling like very Chicken Camp. I'll tell you maybe a little bit about that later, but where you observe your animal a lot, so you're watching, and you're holding your clicker, and you're kind of being still and letting your animal think. Or maybe it was just me, I was making learning a little more sterile than I needed it to be, and she had so much more play and relationship in it. And through watching her do that and training with her and exploring that with my own dog I started just to…some things were clicking in my head. Then I'm also friends with Grisha Stewart and when she was creating BAT which is behavior adjustment training she was really exploring how dog centric training could be. Like, how much can I let the dog do for him or herself without intruding so much and let the process happen so naturally? And it was inspiring to me because we were tending not to do that, we were tending to make a lot of associations. Here's a cookie, I'm making an association for you, I'll be there in your process with you. That was percolating a bit too, about how to…I mean, really dogs, all of us should know how to deal with our fears if we're given the right environment to do so. An animal should know how to calm him or herself. An animal should know how to become less afraid, to investigate something that's frightening. It just isn't available if the stimulus is too high. If you're too afraid you can't do it, but all of us have that kind of wisdom in us. We all know how to make something better. So with that percolating. And then I sort of had this undercurrent of a bit of dissatisfaction with the way rehab was going with the basic tools that I had. It worked, but I don't know, I felt that there was something more. And when I was in grad school I got a chance to actually read a whole bunch more literature than I had been able to read as a nonstudent, although I was studying Skinner and studying Pavlov and using science to train dogs, for sure science based all the way. Now I had big libraries behind me and a whole bunch of information and people I could ask, and I realized when we're dealing with human fears we don't really do it like we do with dogs, we don't really classically condition them in that same way. And more importantly, when children have fears we don't classically…or maybe someone does, but I was seeing that a lot of therapy has to do with play and has to do with relaxing and talking things through. I thought, how can I do this with dogs? I can't talk things through with dogs. So all these pieces were just kind of in the air for me. And as each influence kind of came in I started to think, well, okay, I like what this distance is doing, but the dogs are on their own, and for our sport dogs we need them to be turning to us and be more interactive and wanting to do things with us. How can I put myself in this picture with them, with their dog centric work without impeding it, without taking it over, without going back to trying to click or make associations with classical conditioning? How can I blend them? And I started to just experiment and see what dogs needed. And it kind of all came together. It took a few passes through Bogeyman for me to see just how I wanted to impart it to people. Honestly that's not even true because I keep tweaking it, I tweak it every time figuring out how to explain it better and more. But that's where it came from. It's partly human psychology, human therapy, and partly the great distances that Grisha is experimenting with and letting a dog solve her own problems, and then the great relationship building stuff that Denise is just amazing at, and reading when you are being too much for your dog and when you're not giving them enough agency to come at you. You know, she's just so good at that and I drink everything…every time I get to see her do anything like that I drink it up and think how can this apply to dogs in trouble? How can I use this? You know, it's very inspiring. Melissa Breau: Yeah. I mean, I have to say, having had the chance to watch Denise train a couple of times now I feel exactly the same way. When you see somebody who is really incredible at what they do and you just get a chance to watch it's just, I mean, it's fascinating. I'm looking forward to camp again this year so much because last year…you get to watch, I mean, all the instructors at FDSA are so incredible, and to be able to spend a couple of days doing nothing but watch these incredible trainers do what they're best at, it's a really neat experience. Amy Cook: It really is. I change every time and I would have my lesson with Denise and then I would sit there and watch her do whoever came after me just to kind of watch what she did and go, how come what she's doing here isn't what I have access to in the pet world? I came from…I did pet dog training all of this time, my whole career, my whole life, pet dog training and behaviors in pet dogs, aggression and fear, stress, all that stuff, not really sports stuff. Sport I got into late and I just did for myself. And it's a whole different world. Pet dog trainers don't have access. It's almost two non-overlapping circles. It isn't quite true but it felt that way. When I watch a lot of…Shade is one of those people too, I watch her and I go, how come that wasn't something I could have learned when I was learning how to train dogs? That part is missing from the pet dog trainer education and I wish we were a lot more…I wish there was a lot more overlap than there is. I hope that's in our future. Melissa Breau: That makes both of us. So we got a little bit away from kind of what we were talking about originally, but that's okay. I think the conversation went good places. But I want to kind of bring us back for a second to the Bogeyman course. We talked through that a little bit but you also now teach the Management for Reactive Dogs class. So I wanted to give you a chance to tell us a little bit about how that course is different, and what that course covers, and kind of why you felt the need to add a second course. Amy Cook: Yeah. That course is different. I teach that as an adjunct or kind of a package, but I mean, you can jump in at either point, they're not sequential. Because when you live with a dog who has some troubles it's great that you can put aside time for therapy, and those therapeutic moments are really impactful, they really make a difference and that's all great. It takes time to do it though, and in the meantime you still have to potty your dog and you still have to get your houseguests in, right, and in the meantime you still have to drive somewhere. Life goes on. You can't stay under threshold. I have a way more conservative definition of threshold than most people do, so staying under it gets even harder if you're going with my definition of threshold. So that doesn't solve everybody's problem. That's great, you can go through Bogeyman but you can't potty your dog, right? So management class is for the times when your dog is going to be over threshold. Maybe not massively so, maybe not full on into the biggest display over, but worried, actually triggered by being scared, seeing somebody outside or seeing a strange dog, and it covers all of the strategies to get you through daily life. How do you get a positive leash walk going? What do you do when your dog barks at a window when someone is walking by the house? How do you get your dog outside without rehearsing the worst behaviors of their stress and their fear and their anxieties? I don't want anyone to worsen anything. Management is what you put in place first, you just say, how can I make sure nothing gets worse than it currently is? How can I relieve the pressure as best I can, keep everything as positive as possible, what skills do I need to do that? Once that's in place you're like, all right, now let me set aside some time for therapy to get at the root of this. So management is how you can get through your leash walks without getting your leash all tangled, how to feed in a way that keeps the dog's nose right on that cookie magnetically. I'm continually surprised that that's hard for us all because we're trained to keep the cookie off, it's not a lure, we're supposed to reward after. So a lot of little details that way, and the two together get you through kind of the problems you're having with your dog. I also teach a learning theory class but it hasn't been on the schedule for a bit, but I think that one is coming back too. So I do have three classes that I currently teach as well. Melissa Breau: Well, that's exciting. Do you want to briefly tell us what that kind of… Amy Cook: Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking…yeah. I'm thinking of revamping that one. I do a learning theory class that's a bit of the basics to catch up, make sure we're all on the same page with operant and classical conditioning and how it works, what it's for. But I've been doing this for a long, long time, and there's a lot of interesting practicalities when using those models. There's a lot of overlap between the two models. There's a lot of times when you're not sure which one to use. So I wrote this class to be a practical introduction for people who had been trying this stuff. Like, I'm trying to use operant conditioning but this is the common thing I run into. I look for all the common pitfalls, all the holes, all the should I do this or that, because I've heard if I do that it's going to make this happen. I'm like, aha, glad you asked, I'm going to write a whole lecture on it. So it's sort of very practical, very nitty gritty, very what a dog trainer actually needs to know. Like, you really don't need to know all the schedules of reinforcement. All of you out there, if you studied all the conditioning models, you also studied schedules of reinforcement, but you don't really use them in real life, right? So I pared this down to the stuff you actually do every day of your life, and then we talk for fun about things like can dogs feel jealous or can dogs tell time, can they estimate things, what kind of a life does a dog lead inside their brains? We foray into that for fun. Amy Cook: But I'm currently revamping it a little bit. Melissa Breau: You can't dangle those two questions out there without giving us at least a brief answer. So can dogs feel jealous? Can they tell time? Amy Cook: Well, that's what we discuss, right? That's what we discuss. If you lay out the evidence for jealousy I think it doesn't pass. I think what they feel, and this is a guess, I'm not saying I have a fact, right, I think they feel a precursor to jealousy. I think they feel the thing that is like, oh, I want that, no, why does…I want. A very basic version of feeling upset and wanting that if it had more self-awareness we would be comfortable calling jealousy, because jealousy has this sense of she shouldn't have that and I wish I had the thing she had. It's got more layers to it. But just because it doesn't have the outer layers doesn't mean it doesn't have the core. So it's my guess knowing what emotions they do have and what emotions they don't have. They don't seem to have secondary, they do seem to have primary emotions. They probably don't have well developed jealousy but everything is a continuum and having a basic version of jealousy, it becomes a semantic argument. Like, maybe we would just call that jealousy then, why can't we just say that's what jealousy is in dogs and say they have it? You know? So we toss that around a lot. It's a class for talkers and thinkers and tweakers and people who like to debate back and forth about definitions. It's that kind of geeky class. Melissa Breau: That sounds excellent. Amy Cook: It's like me. Melissa Breau: Hey, it sounds pretty good to me. I'll have to take it next time it comes around. Amy Cook: You're welcome. Melissa Breau: So now that we've talked a little bit about that, I mean, looking at a puppy who doesn't necessarily have a fear issue, or you mentioned you did get Caper fairly recently, how do you kind of try to raise that puppy in a way or lay groundwork for that puppy in a way that really allows them to become a healthy adult dog so you don't see some of those issues crop up? Amy Cook: Yeah. It's been fun. Every puppy is this adventure gift, right? I mean, part of why her name is Caper is because we're on a caper, we're on an adventure together. You can think you have one thing when you meet your dog or when you get to know a dog and have something entirely else at any point. And you know, as Denise would say, you train the dog in front of you today, right? So I say great, I've started with a brand new puppy, she's not really a blank slate because we know nobody is really a blank slate, but she hasn't had anything really happen to her, but you know, really she's a dog that was found stray in the streets of Fremont and picked up and put into a shelter and then into a rescue, and she certainly has a history. So what's been really fun is using the sensitive tools I have now that I didn't have before, or you know, that you're always a better trainer this year than you were last year, right? Oh, boy. Please, God. You know, so I feel like she's the Fenzi puppy in a way because Marzipan kind of wasn't. I mean, she was, but this one, I don't know, this one feels like she really is. So I think of that and I think, who do I have today? Who are you today? How do you feel today? I get to keep asking her how she feels, and I feel like I can hear more clearly what her answer is than I have every felt before with other dogs. It's really exciting. She has her issues, we went through a season, her heat cycle and a false pregnancy, and maybe from that or maybe a kind of fear period, I don't know, where she was all of a sudden some other kind of puppy. I thought wow, okay, I don't have the puppy I had a minute ago. What do I have now? And it's been just, at times a not so fun challenge, but mostly a fun challenge while I figure out what her needs really are, and she's completely different. I mean, maybe everybody says this, I'm going to go back and see if you ask this of everybody or what people say now, but thinking of my last four dogs, not a stitch of similarity in any of them to each other, you know? Like, I'm going to get a dog who's going to be like this and we're going to do that. You get the dog and you're like, oh, hi, nice to meet you. Who are you? What _____ (43:30). You know? She's enormous fun and I'm taking a lot of time with her. I don't care. A lot of people would just…you know, there's this pressure in puppyhood to get a bunch of skills in because they're just so malleable and you can start all this stuff and they love to learn and all that is true, but I also know that I can teach an older dog, any dog those kinds of things, and the time in immaturity, the time when they're growing up is the time to actually smell the flowers, you know? To chase the actual butterflies, to let them take in the world without so much interference from my input and from training. We go out and we exist together. We see the world and I resist the urge to try to take advantage of every second and train all the fun stuff. It feels more holistic and it feels more like we're bonded in a way that it just feels richer because I'm spending so much time listening and asking her how she feels and what she'd like to do. She's just an n of one, we like to say. It's not like I can say, and that leads you to the best dogs in the world, because I don't know. It's her. But I feel like when she does then say yeah, I can work, I'm ready to work, the quality of the connection that we have is much, much better after I've let her. And I directly learned that from the stuff that Denise was investigating with Brito. I mean, it's really…I'm just so grateful she got a little dog before I did, you know? Next I want her to get a Border Collie so then I can get one of those. It's like, you do it first. Somebody pave that. I don't want to make that _____ (45:20). Melissa Breau: So we're nearing the end, unfortunately, so I want to ask you those big questions that are always some of my favorites. Amy Cook: We just started. I have so much more to say. I have so many more things. Melissa Breau: Well then, we'll have to have you back, that's all. Amy Cook: All right. Melissa Breau: So I want to ask you what the dog related accomplishment that you're proudest of is. Amy Cook: Oh, my. Well, right now that would be Marzipan who I guess I didn't talk too much about. I have a theme. I have a theme in my life where sometimes I get a dog and I think, yeah, I can just make her into that, I can do that, I'm a good trainer, I know what I'm doing, I can just solve that problem, no problem. And then I realize that I'm on crack and I don't know what I'm doing at all, and get in way over my head. I got a dog long ago named Hannah who was very, very fearful, and I didn't estimate correctly how difficult that was going to be, and it was really, really, really hard, but I got into it going, no, just a few weeks of clicking and I'll be fine. So when I get my Whippet, Marzipan, I had intended to get my main sport dog, I'm getting my dog, and I'm going to do all this fun stuff, and I get whippet, and she's not purpose bred, she was five months old, and she didn't really work, didn't enjoy it, and I thought, so what? I'm a trainer, I'll just train her to like that stuff. It was harder than I thought it was and of course therefore then a gift, right? It led me to people like Denise, it led me to people like Shade, it led me to understand that I don't know anything about drive building and need to actually learn from people who do. But we got…she's in master's level agility and she does very, very well, and she's fast, and she's connected, and she's focused, and she didn't start out that way, and it was really hard mostly because I didn't know. I was applying the tools I had and they weren't right. So I'm really, really proud that together we were able to find a key to her lock if you can say that, and that I was able to change enough, because I had to do all that work, I had to do all the heavy lifting. It's not on the dog, right? It's not on the dog to change. You have to be who the dog needs. I had to change the way I presented myself. She didn't like a lot of things I would like, a lot of the things I was doing were not the things for her. Through the help of Sandy Rogers and through a bunch of people we found a way to motivate her, found a way to make her love this, and I got a non-working bred off-breed to find a way to love and look forward to and perform well in agility, and I'm just really proud of that and I'm proud of her for sticking with me through my many, many late front crosses. Thank you very much. I'm really proud of her and I'm really proud of the teamwork we have. Melissa Breau: That sounds like it's totally a good thing to be proud of. It sounds like you guys worked really, really hard to develop it and she's come a long way. So that's awesome. Amy Cook: Yeah. I'm thankful for it. It's lessons to me, right? I'm grateful that I've been able to grow in this direction because if she were a really easy dog I might not have the skills that I have, right? So that's the upside to all those things. So I'm just very grateful. Melissa Breau: So potentially my favorite question every single episode, since we've had somebody quote you on the podcast, not to add any extra pressure. Amy Cook: Oh my goodness. Hi, Julie. Melissa Breau: What is the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Amy Cook: Well, you know, my advice, that's my…no. I'm kidding. That piece that I made up, that's the best advice ever. No. Gosh, remind me to tell you the story one day of how that lecture at camp came to be because it happened the night before, believe it or not. Two. Everybody else got two, so I'm taking two. Melissa Breau: Go for it. Amy Cook: So I'm just saying that there's two. One that really, really made a difference, has really impacted me, always stuck with me, was from Bob Bailey. He said observe your animal, observe your learner. And you know, maybe that doesn't sound so deep at first. Of course, you'll watch your learner and you'll learn what you need to know. But it solved so many little problems and so many things that get in the way of your training because you're not seeing who is actually right there in front of you. And the short example is that you have to teach a chicken to peck not just the circle, it's like a construction paper circle, and not just the circle, but the dead center of it. That's really harder than it sounds because they move very quickly and the speed it takes for you to see the chicken and then depress your thumb onto the clicker, by the time the sound is made the chicken is on its way back up from pecking. Melissa Breau: Right. Amy Cook: So you need to click, plan to click and start the clicking when the chicken is on its way down. So it took many lessons, I'm concatenating it for this reason, for you, but Bob had to give me little pieces over time. But it was I had to know what her head and her beak angle, and what she looked like when she was going to be pecking the center and decide before she got there that that was going to be a successful peck and then click that one. And instead I was looking at the peck, I was looking at where the peck landed and trying to click the correct ones. Instead you click on the trajectory toward. And if you don't know what your animal looks like, if you don't observe her really closely you can't tell which peck is going to be the one and therefore your click will be late and therefore you'll never train the chicken. It doesn't really happen, with dogs you can be late, it's all right, but chickens no. And I was teaching a dog to tug open a fridge and I had to call him because I kept not getting it right, I couldn't see what my problem was. I was clicking when she was tugging and it just wasn't getting more tugging out of it. And he asked me, “What does her neck look like when she's about to make the best tug, about to make the strongest contraction?” I'm like, “I wasn't looking at her neck.” “What were you looking at?” The tug in her mouth? Well, are you looking at the clench of her claws as she settled in to really get a good tug in? Click that. And in the matter of an evening she was tugging really tugging really hard and pulling the fridge open. You really have to look at who you have and not see what you want to see and not click or reinforce end products but reinforce process because it's process you're trying to often get when you're training. So that one stuck and made me a much more accurate and better trainer. Then my second is Denise in the sense of…I don't know if she boils it down, but in the way of attitude before precision, I'm sorry, yeah, attitude before precision where you feed cookies for attitude. If that behavior was incorrect you give a cookie anyway. I think a lot of times we as trainers get caught up in, I reinforce the right ones and I make sure not to reinforce the ones I don't want, and that's very engrained in us. So don't click or don't reinforce the incorrect behavior. She does it all the time. She's like, that isn't correct, but my dog tried, you know, cookies for attitude. When I first was aware she was doing that it made me a little nervous. It's like, you're going to get all this bad behavior in the mix. How is this going to work? But it works beautifully. It works beautifully. It keeps your dog in the game. She really helped me see that cookies for trying is not bad. How to handle a mistake is to reward it because your dog tried and was with you and you can just _____ (54:03) most of the cookies are for the right things, don't worry so much. Your learner has an emotional life and that's way, way, way more important than anything else. She codified it down into attitude over precision. It really centered me in my training a lot. So those are my two. Melissa Breau: Those two things, they feel like they have a lot in common, just in terms of kind of looking at the bigger picture of things, you know? Amy Cook: Right. Right. Exactly. It's very bigger picture, and I think clicker training, just for me, I shouldn't speak for anyone else, can get me a little too focused on minutia and make me forget the rest. So those were good for me to learn and to incorporate at this stage of my training. Melissa Breau: I certainly don't think you're alone in that. I mean, clicker training, it's all about splitting, and sometimes when you're splitting it's hard to hold both ideas in your mind at the same time, right? Amy Cook: Right. It's kind of like, wait, I'm splitting, but should I lump again? It's not lumping, it's splitting and wait…mixed metaphors. Forest. I'm splitting in the forest. Wait. Something like that, right? Someone listening can suggest something much more elegant than that because I've never been known for an elegant metaphor, I'll tell you that. Melissa Breau: So for this last one, who else, somebody else in the dog world that you look up to, and I'm going to push you not to name Denise since she's gotten named lots and we've talked to her lots. Amy Cook: No. You can't do that. I know, because I talked about her way too much. I didn't plan to talk about her constantly for the past hour, I promise you. Melissa Breau: I'm sure you have one or two that I'm not super familiar with. Amy Cook: No. No. No. It really isn't all about Denise, but I stand on the shoulders of giants, right? Everybody who has come before me is an influence on me, and everyone has taken their turn. I had a troubled dog years ago that I brought to everybody. Instead of doing some TTouch with her I brought her to Linda Tellington-Jones, you know? Like, I sought everybody I could find to help and to teach me, and I absolutely stand on their shoulders, all of them. I credit myself with nothing and them with everything except my own mistakes and however that phrase really goes. So since I can't name Denise I'm going to anyway. What I admire most…no, I'll be vague and we'll pretend I didn't mention her. What I admire most in a trainer I can look up to now is independent thinking. People will say there's nothing new in training, you know, it's all been done before it's just how we're repacking or talking about it differently. I don't think so anymore. I think there have been just a few people, at least on my radar, that are willing to challenge something that's supposed to be the way it's done and try it on dogs and not say, well, that's in the wrong _____ (57:12) or that's supposed to do this, that's going to make a dog do x, can't do that. Because I was that, that's how we all start when we're learning, we acquire the wealth and the wisdom of other people who say don't do it this way and please do it that way. So you do. And we can get a little lost in that sometimes. So I gravitate toward the independent thinker who isn't about I do it this way because this is the way we do it. I like people who say, I don't know, what would happen if I just give a cookie when he was wrong? Let's find out. I mean, yeah, of course it's going to make him a little confused, but I can fix that, I'm not worried about it. That kind of confidence of I'm an independent thinker and I don't do just what people do because it's what they do. I'm not terribly like that so I look up to it. I think Denise does that. Grisha also does that. And Donna Duford, I don't know if you remember her, also taught me that same way, and she was one of the early old school clicker trainers from the East Coast. There was a kind of East Coast/West Coast rivalry going on in the clicker training where early on, or at least I'm led to understand, I was a few years later, or I'll just say that there were people who replaced their methods, people that called themselves crossover trainers, who replaced things they did piecemeal, one at a time. I don't think this one works so I'm going to do this instead. Oh, this works better, oh, this is really great. Then there are people because they hear about a new system throw out everything they did before and try to put in the new fancy positive system that they're learning. I think when people have the courage to say, I'm just going to try this little piece and see how it goes, and they put in their system and they go, oh, I think I like this, this is pretty good, I'm going to investigate some other stuff, I'm going to try something new. I think from there comes the innovation. At least in my world, in the people who have been around me to influence me, there haven't been a ton of people doing that. So when I see that that really stands out to me. I fully admire it. I think Grisha did that when she just said, “I'm just going to see what happens when we do this.” I think Denise does that all the time. She's not beholden to the world of some _____ (59:27) training that says this is how you do it. She says, “Let's find out.” And I look up to anybody who can think independently, try stuff on their own, and just kind of stand their ground with what it is. Melissa Breau: I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. I think that's exactly what you've done with The Play Way, is take a look and do something totally different. Amy Cook: Well, it's really what I'm trying to do. It's what I'm trying to do. I don't know that I bravely strike out so well, but I'm trying to because you know, we have to see things new ways, or we have to explore. If there's some other way people do it in some other traditions don't be afraid. If you're good enough at what you do, if you're sensitive enough with your learner, if you really are sure that you're not going to cause harm it's okay. It's okay to give a cookie for the wrong behavior, right, to use that again, because you're not causing any harm, so try and _____ (1:00:19). So that's I think where innovation will be found, and I think we get a little stuck, we're a little rutty a little bit in some positive training circles and some pet training circles, and I think it's time to see what…not to throw out things, but to enrich them with new experiences and new things from other thinkers. I don't know if I'm headed there but that's what I think about a lot. So thank you for that but I don't accept it. I reject your compliment and insert some self-deprecation of my own. You can't get me. I refuse. Melissa Breau: Well, I'm going to tell you that I think it anyway and you can choose to accept it or not. But they were sincerely given. Amy Cook: Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Melissa Breau: Well, thank you for coming on, Amy. I really appreciate you taking some time to chat. I know that you weren't feeling well earlier this week, so I'm glad we managed to reschedule and get this in there. Amy Cook: Thank you for your patience. I hope I don't sound too husky, I'm not extra sexy, I'm back to nerdy, but I had no voice _____ (1:01:28). I'm telling you people, I hope you understood everything, I didn't cut out. Melissa Breau: Well, thank you for coming on and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back in two weeks with Julie Flannery to talk about Rally-FrEe, and if you haven't already please subscribe to the podcast. You can do that in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice and you'll have the next episode of our podcast automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bensound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang, and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training. CREDITS: Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called “Buddy.” Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!

Today on "Straight talk with Carly Alyssa Thorne" we have guest Sandy Rogers known as "The Referral Queen" so you guessed it, the topic for today's show is how to build your business your referrals and networking. You can connect with Sandy Rogers at:  Website: http://www.AskSandyRogers.com Twitter: http://www.Twitter.com/ReferralQueen Host, Interviewer, Producer: Carly Alyssa Thorne   http://www.CarlyAlyssaThorne.com Be a Guest on the Show:   http://carlyalyssathorne.com/be-a-guest-on-one-of-our-shows/ Disclaimer: We don't tell our guests what to say, they are expressing their own personal opinions. We do not discriminate against any one Religion, Faith, or ethnicity and are of the belief we are all interconnected. Any advice or subjects we discuss are of our own Personal experiences. Please seek proper counsel from Your own personal advisors whether it be Your Doctor for medical and or health issues, an Account for Financial Advice or any Professional necessary. If You Enjoyed this Post, Please Share the Love... We Also LOVE Feedback, So Please Be Sure to Leave Your Comments Below, Enjoy The Journey... To Your Success, Carly Alyssa Thorne

A fun show about needlepoint and embroidery.  Sandy is a needlepoint teacher and author of Shapes of Needlepoint.

A fun show about needlepoint and embroidery.  Sandy is a needlepoint teacher and author of Shapes of Needlepoint.