Podcasts about treos

Plenty of Pilates studios look successful from the outside. The numbers tell a different story. In this episode, Lesley Logan sits down in person with Julian Barnes, co-founder and CEO of the BFS Network, the boutique fitness industry's market intelligence company behind the annual State of the Industry report. Julian brings the data from 500-plus studios across 46 states. Lesley brings the how. Together they break down the five numbers that separate a real business from an expensive hobby, and what it actually takes to keep clients for years instead of weeks. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:The five KPIs that profitable studios track every month.Why referrals still beat social media for new leads.How to structure an intro offer that converts.The objection scripts that turn a maybe into a yes.Why holding clients accountable is what kills churn.Episode References/Links:BFS Network – bfsnetwork.comBFS Pilates Studio Benchmarks Report - BFSreport.com or BFSpilatesreport.comFacebook https://beitpod.com/thebfsnetwork https://www.facebook.com/thebfsnetwork?mibextid=wwXIfr&mibextid=wwXIfrSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questionsGuest Bio:Julian Barnes is Co-Founder and CEO of the BFS Network, the premier growth accelerator and market intelligence company in the beauty, fitness, and self-care industry. He leads BFS' CEO Network — the premier peer-to-peer leadership network for multi-location, multimillion-dollar operators who are building to scale — and serves as Managing Director of the Global Leadership Council, whose members collectively operate more than 10,000 locations worldwide. He also serves as an Outside Director for a global fitness brand. Barnes created NYU's Institute in Entrepreneurship & Small Business Management and served on the US Tennis Association's Investment Committee, which managed a $200M portfolio. He holds a BA from Tufts and a JD from UNC Chapel Hill.If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Julian Barnes 0:00  You have to be confident enough, both in your own abilities and that the universe will provide for you the right way. You have to be confident enough to say no to the wrong person, so you keep space open for the right person, as you said, and you have to be confident that the universe is going to bring that right person to you.Lesley Logan 0:24  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started. Lesley Logan 1:05  All right, Be It babe. This is really for my Pilates studio owners and teachers out there, people who want to open a Pilates studio. We are going to get deep in numbers, and you're hearing me talk a lot about my thoughts about the Pilates industry and how you are going to have a profitable Pilates business. So it's kind of fun. If you've never heard me talk Pilates business, and you want to hear my thoughts, you can. For those of you who are Profitable Pilates members, you're going to hear some of my favorite things to say, and I think you're going to be really impressed with how amazing your studios are doing compared to others. But also, I think it's really important to know what the stats are. What is going on in the Pilates history? It is changing. There are a lot of studios, but are these studios actually as successful as they look? Lesley Logan 1:28  So, I think this report is really fun. If you watch it on YouTube, you're gonna see the visuals of these numbers. If you're like me and need to see them, you can watch it there. We'll also have everything in the show notes and in the blog as well. You guys are awesome. Here is Julian from the BFS Network. Lesley Logan 1:43  All right, loves, this is gonna be fun. You guys get to hear me in my own element, probably a little more behind the scenes of what we do with other businesses, but we have an incredible guest here. We'll talk a lot of numbers, so if you're a visual person, you might want to watch this on our YouTube channel. Julian from the BFS Network, you are here. Hello, tell everyone who you are and what you rock at, because they're going to want to know.Julian Barnes 2:18  Lesley, I am here in your home studio in Las Vegas. This is not Zoom. This is.. I could touch your high five. Here we go. There we go. Awesome. Hello, everyone. My name is Julian Barnes. I am the co-founder and CEO of the BFS Network. I am based in New York City, here in Vegas to hang out with my good friend Lesley and Brad. We are the BFS Network. For today's conversation, the most important thing I'm going to share is we are known as the premier market intelligence company in the boutique fitness industry. We publish the State of the Industry report, which is the annual report, which is the most comprehensive report in our industry. A lot of data, a lot of KPIs, a lot of metrics, all focused on showing what profitable studios do. So I'm here today with Lesley, and I'm going to share some of the numbers, and she's going to tell us how to achieve those numbers.Lesley Logan 3:13  Yeah, I'm excited. Let's go, let's do it. I'm a visual person, so I'm glad you got a visual for us.Julian Barnes 3:18  So the first thing I want to just talk about is who participated in the survey. In addition to the Profitable Pilates community, this survey has been conducted over the last 18 months, 500-plus studios worldwide. Most importantly, it is the overwhelming majority, 89% of the studios that participated in the survey have three or fewer locations, and most of them have one location, individually owned, self-financed, no private equity, no investor. So we're talking about just the regular studio owner who bootstrapped and saved, and maybe borrowed from the bank to open, that's who's in here. There's no Solidcore in here, there's no Barry's, there's no SoulCycle. And if there are some independent Club Pilates franchisees, they're individually owned, they're not big corporate, so that's.Lesley Logan 4:17  Not one of those people who owns 75 or 100 sharing. Yeah, yeah.Julian Barnes 4:21  Exactly. All right, so that's who's in it. Also, there's broad geographical distribution of the survey, meaning 45% of the responses came from cities with a population of half a million or more, 45% came from cities 50,000 to half a million, another 10% are rural areas less than 50,000, 46 out of 50 states, so we have geographic representation, we have market size representation, one, two, and three locations, no PE, no investors, so we're talking about the average mom-and-pop small studio everywhere in this country.Lesley Logan 4:57  Okay, you know I'm gonna want to have dinner where the four states are, so we got a find studio close to. Julian Barnes 5:01  It's like three S's. No, three N's. So it's North Dakota, Nebraska, and I forget the other two.Lesley Logan 5:08  Okay, I have a really great city for you, Nebraska solo owner, really pretty incredible, open for over 20 years. Julian Barnes 5:13  That's what we need. Okay. So that's who we're talking about. The way we're going to rock today is talk about the BFS scorecard, which is six KPIs. I'm going to share with the listeners, all of you, the six KPIs that profitable studios track, and I'm going to tell you what those KPIs are. And then we're going to come back, and I'm going to ask Lesley how and what a studio should do to achieve those KPIs. So, I am the "what" today; Lesley is going to be the "how."Lesley Logan 5:49  Yeah. So, for those of you, this is how it was explained to me, and I think this is a lot of fun for my peeps to listen. He's gonna be that Steve Kornacki at the big board, and I'm gonna come in as Rachel Maddow or Chris Hayes. I mean, obviously I watch a news channel, so there we go. So I'm gonna come in with my opinion and my punditry.Julian Barnes 6:07  You don't have blonde hair, so you're not that other channel.Lesley Logan 6:09  I'm not. Also, these are still my cheeks, my lips, my eyes.Julian Barnes 6:18  All real, keeping it real. Okay, so KPI number one is number of leads per month, and Profitable Pilates studios generally are generating somewhere between 10 to 50 leads per month. The number one response is more than 50 leads, so 30% of the respondents generated more than 50 leads, and then the tie for second was less than 10 leads per month and 10 to 25. Less than 10 was 20%, 10 to 25 is 21%, so that's basically a tie. I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, the studios that are generating more than 50 leads a month are probably mat Pilates with larger class sizes, and yeah, they need more leads.Lesley Logan 7:09  I think anytime you need more leads, it's probably better having more class-based classes. Yeah.Julian Barnes 7:13  Exactly. And so the studios with less than 10 or 10 to 25 are probably more of the Reformer.Lesley Logan 7:19  Yeah.Julian Barnes 7:19  So number of leads per month is the first metric to track. I'm going to run through these quickly, and then we're going to come back. Okay, so the first KPI is number of leads per month, and the highest response was more than 50 leads per month. 30% of the Profitable Pilates studios that we surveyed generate more than 50 leads per month, and I would imagine that the majority of those are Pilates mat classes, where they have more people in seats and bigger studios, and they need to fill classes. Tied for second was less than 10 leads per month and 10 to 25 leads per month, and that is between 20 and 21% of the people who completed this assessment selected less than 10 and 10 to 25. So number of leads per month is the first KPI that we're going to talk about. Second KPI is the conversion rate, and let's see if I can do this, because I'm not an idiot, is what I told you, right?Lesley Logan 8:19  You're doing great. So there we go.Julian Barnes 8:22  Conversion rate of leads to first-time visitors. I can't wait for Lesley to break this down, but it's one thing for someone to email you, to DM you, to IM you to say, "I'm interested, send me more information about your studio." It's another thing for that person to actually walk in the door, and so conversion rate of lead to first-time visitor, Profitable Pilates studios are converting at more than 30%. 54% of the Profitable Pilates studios are converting at more than 30%. So think about that: for every 10 leads, the best studios are getting three of those 10 emails to walk in the door, right? So, conversion rate of leads to first-time visitors. Now they came, they took a class, they bought the intro offer. The question is, what percentage of those people made a second, bigger purchase? They already purchased the intro offer. I like to think about it like this: you go to a restaurant the first time and you have a nice meal. My question is always, am I going to come back? And especially if you bring a friend with you, maybe it's your favorite restaurant, and you bring a friend with you to your favorite restaurant, and you pay for the dinner. The question for your friend is, did you enjoy your dinner, and did you enjoy your dinner enough that you would come back and pay for it? That second purchase, same thing applies with studios, so they bought the intro offer. Did they come back? And Profitable studios, 55% of Profitable Pilates studios convert to a second, bigger purchase more than 30% of the time. So see how small these numbers get: for every 10 leads, three walk in the door, and of those three that walk in the door, only one is making a next purchase. So Lesley's gonna break that down. She is chomping up the bits, waiting for me. Lesley Logan 10:13  I can't wait. Julian Barnes 10:13  All right, so those are the first three KPIs. Okay, so the last two KPIs we'll talk about are average member lifetime value, which is how long they stay, and so the largest category for Profitable Pilates studios, 28% of Profitable Pilates studios have a lifetime value greater than two years. The good news is, hence the name of Profitable Pilates, that 71% of the Profitable Pilates studios that completed this assessment have an LTV of more than two years, and that's really important. I'll let Lesley weigh in on why that's important, but the number is more than two years. You want to be an LTV more than two years. Julian Barnes 10:56  And finally, the last KPI we're going to talk about today is churn, and churn means how often your members leave and you have to go refill that spot. You can't grow if you're constantly replacing someone in your studio. So Profitable Pilates studios, 43% of profitable Pilates studios minimize churn to less than 5%, but here again, the Profitable Pilates community that Lesley runs, 71% of the people who completed this assessment have a churn less than 5%.Julian Barnes 11:31  So let's recap. The five KPIs are number of leads per month, converting those leads from lead to first visit, converting the first visit to a second purchase, assuming the first visit is an intro offer, second purchase, then how long do they stay, and do you retain them by minimizing churn? Those are the five KPIs. That's what Profitable studios do in the Pilates sector. Lesley, now tell the people.Lesley Logan 12:02  Oh my gosh.Julian Barnes 12:03  Tell the people, Lesley, what they're supposed to do to achieve these numbers. How do they get these number of leads per month?Lesley Logan 12:11  Okay, so here's a really great... I just want to say I'm really proud of the people who filled this out, because my goal has always been for the people we coach for the long term. I'm like, your business should get really boring, like it should get really predictable. My goal is that some of our people need one lead a month because they actually don't have room, and they're actually referring out to other businesses in the area. That obviously is more of a smaller studio that doesn't have large group classes, but that is the absolute goal, because it's better to be entertained in your life, your business should not be so entertaining. Lesley Logan 12:39  So what I would say is, for studios to have a really great conversion, if you don't know how many leads you're getting a month, that's important. You got to start there, and you want to know where they're coming from, because that really does help you understand where you're spending your time marketing. Everyone tries to sell you to the moon and back that you should be on social media. You might not need to be, depends on your community, right? Depends on how many people are there, and depends on how many leads you need. I know that sounds crazy in 2026 that I would tell someone that it's not about social media, but it's not, more and more people are not necessarily trusting what they're seeing on socials because of AI and things like that. So, you really want to have an amazing network of clients who love you, who refer people out, so you're getting strong, solid leads, because those are gonna be the ones that actually come in over just reaching out to see what's going on.Julian Barnes 13:22  You just said something I want to jump on. I didn't mention it, but we also asked studio owners what was their most effective lead gen tactic. You want to guess what that answer is, Lesley?Lesley Logan 13:33  Referral.Julian Barnes 13:34  By far, in every modality.Lesley Logan 13:39  Yes. And here's what people.Julian Barnes 13:40  It's two to one, like it wasn't close. And again, these are profit, not just Pilates, all modalities. The number one lead gen tactic is referrals. So when you said people don't trust what's on the social and socials, what do people trust?Lesley Logan 13:56  They trust their friends.Julian Barnes 13:57  They trust people they know, people who they know, like, and trust.Lesley Logan 14:00  So here's the thing: if you are a new business right now, or you need people right now, if you're spending all of your time marketing yourself through stuff online and buying ads, that's one way to do it. And you will get people. I'm not saying that doesn't work, but you will get more people quicker if you actually tell the people who know, like, and trust you, whether they're clients or not, "Here's what my studio does, here's who we help, here's how we help them. Who do you know?" If you say, "Who do you know?" it opens a loop. You open a loop, people aren't likely to say, "I don't know anyone," because they'd have to think about that. But if you say, "Who do you know?" it opens this loop, and they start being aware of it. And if their friend's like, "Oh, my shoulder hurts," they go, "Oh, I just heard about the studio down the street." People will refer you people, and those are the people who actually come in, more likely than not, than someone who's just cruising the internet and filling out the contact form. Whoever fills out the contact form, honestly, it's whoever gets to them first and doesn't bug them.Julian Barnes 14:49  Let's take the people behind the scenes for a second. Before this call, we were chilling out in your backyard, and is it safe to say that we have some fundamental disagreements about how studios actually operate some things, right?Lesley Logan 15:27  I think that's okay, though.Julian Barnes 15:36  I wanted them to know that the things you and I agree on are the most important fundamental aspects of running a business. The things we disagree on, I say they're on the fringe, they're just a matter of choice. But this, having referrals, know, like, and trust that, it is tested over time.Lesley Logan 15:26  Yeah, I mean, it's so true. And also, it just makes it a lot easier on you if you need clients today. You opened the studio recently, or you hired a new teacher, or you opened some new classes, you need people to fill those seats today, you will always have a faster rate of transitioning them into clients if you're going to your community and the people who trust you, because they will talk about you, they will have a trust transference. If you are waiting for people to fill out your contact form, then it's like, well, they wanted you at 11:00 PM last night while they were watching someone on some TV show doing what they thought was Pilates, so they reached out, but now it's 8:00 AM or 9:00 AM in the morning and they're at work. Then it's like, "Well, I'm too busy this weekend," so you got to get people when they're excited. Lesley Logan 16:07  If you have a 30% conversion rate from the lead into coming in, that's great. I actually don't think that that's a terrible... I think if you have higher than that, you are doing great, but if you have lower than that, that's where I have concern. I feel like 30% feels very fair. Where I want you to really look at is from that, when they come in, if you have a lower than 30% conversion rate, you really do have an issue, because the numbers just get so small, and you're actually just wasting a lot of time. You're working really hard. And so I think this is where you, as an owner, need to look at what your onboarding experience is. How are you setting people up? Are you getting them with the right teacher? Are you the only person who's teaching them? Then it really is on you, what's going on?Lesley Logan 16:47  And this is where I think a lot of people make mistakes, because they try to sell Pilates, or whatever the modality is. People actually don't want to buy process; they want to buy the transformation, they want to buy the passion from you. And so this is where, if you're a studio owner and you're not the one who's doing these intro offers, they're going into a class, or they're going into another teacher's experience. You need someone who's got passion and actually can read the person, because you have to take what their goal is and what you offer and show how they get there. Nobody wants to hear, "Oh, you're going to buy the four-session-a-week package," because that's, no, that's a process. They want to buy in on the belief that you have that you can get them to where they want to go.Julian Barnes 17:24  You just said the magic word, and I don't know if people really heard you or want to go back. You said they want to buy the what, starting with the letter T?Lesley Logan 17:34  Oh, the transformation.Julian Barnes 17:35  Say that again.Lesley Logan 17:36  The transformation. They want the transformation, they want the end result.Julian Barnes 17:38  I like to say that there is no transformation without the transaction. There is no transformation without the transaction. So you have to ask the question, why are you here, and you have to actively listen to what they say, and then be prescriptive in your answer to the question. Okay, so you want X, Y, or Z. Great. Here's how you're going to get that: two times a week, three times a week. You're going to take this class, that class, this class, etc. You're going to give them a prescription, just like a doctor would give you a prescription, and tell them when they ask what does it cost, you reframe it. The investment for you to achieve your desired goal is going to be one of time and money. The time is twice a week or three times a week, and the monthly investment for that is going to be X.Lesley Logan 18:29  I agree so much, because if you can actually get them to understand that this is a tool to the transformation, and they can make that transaction, and you break it down, you can also be honest with them, and this is where trust is really built. Some people are going to come to you with goals that are not in alignment with what you do. If you actually tell them... for example, in Pilates in LA, every single person wants to lose five pounds, and it's like, "Well, here's what we know about science. Science would say, if you want to lose weight, it's a few different factors, and any fitness is part of the journey, but it's not the tool." The actual tool, especially if you're serving women, is: what are your hormones like? What are you eating? And then you can go from there. But if all you do is work out to lose weight, you might lose a couple pounds, you might change the metabolism you've got, but it's actually not going to get you to the goal. Lesley Logan 19:20  And so this is where it's really cool for people, and this is what I coach people on their first-time sessions, is find out what they're there for, and then tell them you can or can't help them. So I would always say, "Here's how Pilates is going to be part of your journey, here's what we can't do, but here's what we can do." First of all, most people are lied to so much, or sold a bunch of smoke and mirrors, that they actually will like that you told them that. They might not buy from you, they might go to someone else, or they might try something else and come back, because they actually believe and trust you. I really do believe in being authentic here. And then when you're teaching the sessions, you need to actually tell them, "Here's why I've chosen this exercise for you, here's why this exercise is going to hit your goals." That's what people don't do, they just keep talking about Pilates this, Pilates that. Pilates is now on every corner, so maybe that worked in the 1990s or might have worked in the early 2000s, but it doesn't work today. You actually have to say, "With my eye, I'm seeing your shoulder is doing this, and you have back pain, and so what I'm seeing is because of this imbalance, you're gonna have back pain until we get this balanced. So, here's these three exercises we're going to do, and they're going to help you with this." You have to actually tell them, take them behind the scenes. I like to say that their first sessions, their intro sessions, are like going to a buffet. They get to see all the different options, and you're going to talk about all the different options, and then you're going to prescribe them, like Julian said, like, "Hey, okay." First of all, I never say, "Did you like that?" You got to just go with confidence. You're like, "Thank you for letting me teach you," because that gives gratitude, it lets them know the session's over, and then you go into, "You said you wanted this. Here's how we're going to get there. Here's the process." Julian Barnes 19:20  Here's the roadmap.Lesley Logan 19:20  Yes. And then if they're like, "Whoa, that's too much for me." If you go through all the investment and all the time, and they're like, "That's more than I can spend right now," you can say, "I understand. We can take a little longer; instead of coming three times a week, we can do two times a week, or we can do this and this," but you have to actually help them find a way. I get it, some people don't work out, so that's not even the money, it's the actual going from zero times at the gym to coming three times. You're asking a lot, so this is where you have to be honest, and this is where I think our industry really needs a little kick in the pants, and a nice one. People that are with me a long time have heard me say this: if you aren't going to hold people accountable to their goals, you're going to become a to-do that they move around all the time.Julian Barnes 21:28  1,000%. And remember, they came to you. You didn't go find them.Lesley Logan 21:34  Yeah.Julian Barnes 21:35  Even if you did, even if you went to the local farmers market, you didn't force them to give you their email. Lesley Logan 21:40  Yeah.Julian Barnes 21:40  They gave you their email. They walked into the door. You have to ask them why they walked in, and you have to actually listen, so you can connect what they said with what you're going to say. You know what you're going to say, you know what your packages are. The question is, can you connect your packages to the goal they told you they want to achieve? It is not about giving permission, you are the person in the position of authority.Lesley Logan 22:09  Well, that's the thing. You just said you are the person in the position of authority, and that's where people don't see themselves.Julian Barnes 22:15  Retain your power.Lesley Logan 22:16  And so when people come to us, I have to constantly remind them that you're so worthy. If you have people who are late canceling and you're not charging them, I promise you, you're losing that client. That's not a client you want, by the way, but it's also you're losing that client because when push comes to shove. Julian Barnes 22:31  They're not committed. Lesley Logan 22:33  Right. When their budget has an issue, when something comes up, they're like, "Oh, I'm going to cancel my Pilates," because they're not actually seeing results, because you didn't hold them accountable to get results. I think this is where people really have to actually remember there is such a thing as you being in relation to them, and there is a camaraderie, but you're also the expert. They came to you, and the only way that they can exchange the energy is to pay you that worth, but you have to hold them accountable so that they get those results. And when you get them the results, that's why you don't have churn, that's why your churn is so low, and that's why you'll have clients for life. And by the way.Julian Barnes 23:05  We're gonna come back to that. Lesley Logan 23:05  Okay I just want to say, I think a lot of people go, "Oh, this person came to me, I hope they like me." You can't be like that if you want a business that actually works and doesn't stress you out at the end of the day. You have to actually have the authority, because you are the expert. They don't know.Julian Barnes 23:21  You have to be a little bit like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs said you don't ask the customer what they want; you tell the customer what they need. None of us raised our hand and said we want a phone, remember the Blackberries and the Treos, and we want a contact management thing, we want to surf the web. No one said, "I want that." He presented it to us and said, "Here, isn't this cool?"Lesley Logan 23:45  Yeah, right. I think that's where, I understand some people's first-time sessions are in a group class. I would argue that that's a harder way to sell things. I would absolutely say, if you are a class-based studio and you want to have clients for life, you should have some sort of onboarding that allows them to be either on their own or in a very small group of other people who are also on an intro, so that you can actually find out why they're there and actually tell them how these exercises on whatever equipment you're teaching them actually help them reach their goal. Because if you just put them in a class with a bunch of other people, first of all, they get lost, and the experienced people get annoyed if the teacher keeps teaching to the newbie. You're going to lose people; they're going to start going, "I'm not getting challenged here, I'm going to this studio over here." So, I really do believe in an onboarding journey. And, of course, people are going to say, "Oh, this studio over here will let me in." Great, you should go to that studio that doesn't have any worries about you getting hurt and doesn't want your sessions to be personalized. No problem. I understand you want to get started. I actually believe in villainizing a little bit of the thing that you are not doing, so that you can actually tell people, "Here's why you wanted to work with me. Here's why you want to trust me, because I actually care about why you're here, and you're not just a number on my Reformer, you're actually a person whose impact I want. I want you to have the transformation you wanted." But I also think when they're in that first session, whatever it is, a week or a session, I really do think if you don't tell them what you're seeing in their body that's keeping them from the goal they want to have, you are missing out on an opportunity for them to understand how smart you are and how much of an expert you are. If you tell me that you want to have better posture and I'm seeing that your hip is up to one side, you have to tell people, "Oh, I noticed this, no wonder your posture is having problems. So here we're going to do these exercises." I always said this, but I think it's really where people miss out. This is where teachers keep it to themselves and they actually don't tell the client what they're seeing; they just pick exercises, but the person doesn't know why you're picking that. So, you have to peel back the curtain, so that they can see that you're in there with them, you're a partner in this journey, and you're gonna hold them accountable to hitting the goals they want, and then when they hit those, you're gonna set new ones.Julian Barnes 25:40  Right. All right, so let's talk about KPI number three: percentage of new visitors who purchase a membership or a bigger package. So we're talking specifically about people who purchase the intro offer, they finish the one week or the two week or the one month, whatever the intro offer is, they finished that. Did they pull out their credit card and make a second purchase? What should studios do, owners, and instructors do to increase the probability of a yes?Lesley Logan 26:11  I love this question so much. I'm going to take us back a little bit. So I want to go back to the intro offer. You need to pick an intro offer that actually fits the goals you need. If you need a lot of clients, the intro offer needs to be very simple, very easy. I wouldn't even give people two weeks, I think that is crazy nonsense. I also don't like free; I think you have to charge. It's very hard to go from zero to whatever you're charging. So, I would say if you need clients yesterday, you're doing a single-session intro offer with a very much hands-on experience, where someone is told, you find out what they need in an interview style, and then a concierge style at the end about what's going on. That's what you need. If you don't need a ton of clients, then your intro offer can be a little longer, and can actually be a higher need to say yes, meaning instead of doing a private session and the intro offer is $60 for one session, it might be $180 for three. That obviously is going to get rejected more, because it's a bit more. "I don't know if I want to spend $180 on you, I just met you, I don't even know you." But you don't need a lot of people, so you're like, "I only want the best to come through," right? So you really want to make sure you're picking that. Now, obviously, the higher the intro offer's time and money commitment is, the more likely you're actually going to have a second purchase if they do it in a condensed form of time. That's why I disagree with two weeks or one month, I really do, especially for in-person. I think you want to keep things quick, because when that dopamine high is happening, that's when they're more likely to buy. If it's three sessions that they can take over three weeks, good luck, because they only felt the high in the moment when they drove their car home, they actually didn't get the benefits. But if it's three sessions in one week, you're more likely to get that second purchase. You want people to feel the benefits, because let's be really honest: Joe Pilates has a quote that everyone likes to use, but they don't finish the sentence. "In 10 Pilates sessions, you feel different. In 20 sessions, you look different. In 30 sessions, you have a whole new body." But they don't finish it: "If you come three to four times a week, or your money back." That's what Joe said, that's what his ad said. If you're just coming to Pilates once a week, it'd be like trying to study Spanish once a week. I can recognize words, but I'm not going to be able to understand Bad Bunny, that's not happening. I have to do it multiple times a week, and science is there, no matter the modality. Unless you're doing something three or four times a week, you're actually not making a change.Julian Barnes 26:58  Well, that's the key, right? Earlier you said you're here for the transformation. The first step, I would argue, in the transformation is transforming your daily routine. What you just said is people need to adopt a new routine that says, "I'm coming on Tuesday morning, Thursday after work, Saturday morning." I'm committed to that change. See, hear these terms: commitment, investment, transformation. They need to commit. You need to present them with a prescription. You are more likely to be successful if you present a prescription that gives them the opportunity to adopt a new routine from day one.Lesley Logan 28:10  Here's the thing: you will sound more confident when you're talking with them if you're making them rise up to the occasion. It is understanding their intake forms.Julian Barnes 29:12  You're leading them to rise to the occasion.Lesley Logan 29:18  Yes. Here's the thing: are you more likely to come to the person who says, "When do you want to come in?" If you're someone who's listening who says, "When do you want to come in? Do you want to come in next week?" I'm going to tell you right now, your business is a hobby, and eventually the IRS is going to audit you, so that's not going to be good for you. You're not gonna be profitable. If you're telling people, "Hey, you should come, you're gonna come two times a week. I have 10:00 AM on Tuesdays and Thursdays, does that work for you?" That is me telling you. You're going, "Hmm, does it work for me?" But you're not, you're more likely to look at your calendar like, "When do I want to come in? Oh, next week actually feels really full. Now I can't come in," right? You want to actually tell people and prescribe people and have the confidence in what you're doing, and this is where I think a lot of people have a lot of fear. "Oh my god, they'll think I'm being rude." No, they won't. They're going to think that you're in control. This is a business. It's a business. Lesley Logan 30:06  And also, I don't want to waste people's money, so you can even say that. Look, here's the deal: if you're only going to come once every other week, this is kind of a waste of money. You shouldn't really do this; you could probably do something at home on YouTube. If you really want the transformation, you have to commit to it, and the commitment looks like this. That's where I would say, whether you do memberships or packages, I don't like unlimited, because that is craziness, you also can't prescribe people the times to come in. "If you want to hit this goal in the next three months, I recommend our three-time-a-week commitment. If that's too much for you, there's a two-time..." You have these things that people can choose, a journey, a path. If you're only gonna have one time a week, here's the deal: you can never miss, and I'm gonna need you to do homework, because the reality is, one time a week, if that's all you can afford time or money-wise, I get that something is better than nothing, but you gotta do something at home. Otherwise, it is a waste of your time and money, and I don't wanna waste your money. And when you talk like that with people, they're like, "Oh, this person really knows what they're talking about." When you ask them, "When do you want to come in?" a broken clock is right two times a day. You're going to get some people, but those are the type-A people who happen to be near you or close to you, and they kind of like you. You're not going to have a business where it's easy to predict how much money you're going to make month after month.Julian Barnes 31:15  Would you say that transformation requires the three C's? You need to change your routine, you need to be consistent about the changes you're making in routine, and you have to be willing to get rid of your comfort zone, get out of your comfort zone. Very little change occurs when you're comfortable.Lesley Logan 31:37  Oh, you know what happens: if you don't change, the world does, and you just actually get further behind. So I do think that... I love all those three C's, and I think that's really helpful for people. Here's the thing, the objections you're going to get are three. There might be some other ones, but these are the three I've heard teaching for a really long time, and I used to run nine studios for a high-end fitness company, so I have heard them all, which are: "I don't have the money." Guess what, everyone says that when they actually don't really want to tell you why they can't do it, or they didn't like it. It's an easier thing. You're not going to go show me your wallet, right? So, "I don't have the money," and "I don't have the time." This is one for people who want change, but they're afraid of leaving their comfort zone. So, this is where you actually have to have a speech ready in hand. "I get that. I'm a very busy person. Here's what we're going to do: we are going to pre-schedule your sessions for the next month, so you can schedule your whole life around it. How about we start two weeks out, because it's a little easier? Two weeks out, it's not overwhelming. We're going to schedule your whole life around it, and because of our cancellation policy, you're going to cancel your friends over this, and you're actually going to get the transformation." Or they have to "think about it." If they have to think about it, there's a couple things going on. You weren't good enough at making sure they understood how what you're doing is going to help them with their transformation. You didn't get an honest goal out of them, or you actually didn't tell them how you're going to get there, so they're kind of in, but they're not sure. Or you have way too many offers. If you have too many offers, "I don't know what to do. If I see we have these packages, and we have these packages, we have this class over here, we have this class over here..." It's too confusing for me, and I have to think about it. You want things to be very easy for people to make a yes. And so, if they have to say, "Oh, I have to talk to my husband," that is also a way of saying, "I don't have the money," or "I'm not sure," because most women have the ability to spend the money on what they want. The first time I ever heard this as a brand new teacher, I said, "No problem. If your husband has any questions, here is my number. Remember, these are the goals we talked about, here's how we're going to get there." And if you want me to chat with him about how this is going to work out, I'm happy to do that. Guess what? He came up to my studio the next day and he said, "My wife can come as much as she wants, whatever she wants, she can come as much as she wants. I just want her to be happy," right? Most of the time it's not the husband; it's that she was not sure if she was worthy of the commitment, and we have to hold space for that. But if you can actually think of the objections you have, and then come up with your responses ahead of time, you're gonna come off more confident when they have those. And then guess what, they can go think about it. Okay, great. "I'm gonna reach out next week, I'm gonna reach out tomorrow, I'm gonna call back on the follow-up. Is that okay with you?" You'd be surprised how many people come in if you follow up.Julian Barnes 34:04  Now, here's one of the areas where we may disagree. I agree with everything you just said. Sometimes it's okay to say, "We may not be for you."Lesley Logan 34:13  Oh, we're not going to disagree on that. I love that.Julian Barnes 34:17  I hear you. The three objections: don't have time, can't afford it, not sure. Okay, I hear you. We may not be the right place for you. We are the place for people who are willing to make a commitment to the transformation they seek. We work with people who are committed. We work with... and then whatever's in your community, you know, describe them. They might be business owners, executives, presidents of corporations, whatever is in your tribe, in your community. We work with the best of the best. If you want to be part of that, we'd love to have you, but I get it, we may not be for you, and that's okay. Lesley Logan 34:56  That's okay. Julian, I love this, because I just coached someone today, and she was talking about, "Oh, they got sick and they couldn't do this, and now they're good there." I said, "You should fire them as clients, they're not good clients." In fact, I would call that dirty money. Every single teacher out there who's taking clients who just come in willy-nilly, that is dirty money. It's actually never going to get you good referrals. There's certainly not gonna be a walking billboard. The best advice I ever got when I first started teaching Pilates, best advice, a teacher took me aside on my first day, and he goes, "Get one client and make them obsessed with you. You focus every energy and everything you have on that one client, and you will have clients for life." And he's not wrong. I was gifted a duet session from a teacher who was moving, and I took that to heart. They're like, "We can't come next week." I'm like, "Oh, well, I'll see you... let's go with an extra one this week. Gotta make it up."Julian Barnes 35:43  Exactly right.Lesley Logan 35:44  And they're like, "What? We don't do two in a week." I'm like, "Well, you're missing next week. I'm not gonna wait two weeks to see you. What change are we gonna have? We gotta do this." They never miss a session. Guess what? Within two weeks, I had two of their friends from their building, right? Because I was like, "If you want to work with me, this is how often you have to do this." And here's the thing: when you tell people, "We might not be for you," one, some people will rise to the occasion because they don't like to be rejected, and two, you're leaving space for someone who's going to actually add to the community and make your business successful. And, by the way, more importantly, you're going to make an impact on them, because it's not fun to teach people who are not committed it's, actually exhausting.Julian Barnes 36:18  I know you believe in karma.Lesley Logan 36:19  I do. Julian Barnes 36:20  Right, as we sit in a room full of crystals everywhere.Lesley Logan 36:24  Some people, I'm wondering when their karma is coming. I'm just gonna say.Julian Barnes 36:28  So you have to be confident enough that the universe will present you what you need when you need it, and that confidence is really tested when you have some financial needs and the wrong client walks in. You have to be confident enough, both in your own abilities and that the universe will provide for you the right way. You have to be confident enough to say no to the wrong person, so you keep space open for the right person, as you said, and you have to be confident that the universe is going to bring that right person to you.Lesley Logan 37:12  Yes. Well, and.Julian Barnes 37:13  But it's not going to always be on your schedule.Lesley Logan 37:15  No. And that... well, that's here's the thing, we've been talking about these different leads, you actually don't get to decide when people are going to finally come in the door. So you have to make sure that whatever you're doing is making sure it's put in front of them and reminded in front of them, and they're reminded again until they're like, "Oh, I'm finally ready." We actually don't get to decide when they come in the door, but once they're there, we absolutely can say, "You're in my house, and in my house, this is how we do things," right? Like my house, you can leave your shoes on, we got a dog, he goes in and out, this is a desert, we're fine, but some people's houses, the shoes go off. I was just at a friend's house who's in the Pilates industry, and he's like, "Yeah, you take your shoes off," and we went upstairs, and he's like, "Oh, there's a deck, put these slippers on," and I'm like, "Oh my god, there's so many rules!" But guess what, it's his house. Those are the rules of participating in his world, and so I would just say it's okay to have these rules. It really helps people understand the boundaries, and it will make for better clients who are more consistent, and guess what, they will go back to the best way to get clients: refer you better clients.Julian Barnes 38:15  Great. So now, how do we keep them? How do you recommend that your clients act in such a way as to increase lifetime value? First of all, what is lifetime value? Second, why is it important? Third, how do you increase it? What is it? Why is it important? How do you increase it?Lesley Logan 38:34  So you can correct me. I'm going to do a simple lifetime value with clients: like if you have clients for two years, how much money do you often make off them? And getting an average of a lifetime value really helps you understand how many clients you really kind of need for your business to predict or project what you want to make. You want to make a million dollars for your studio, and your average lifetime client is X. Then you need 25 of those clients to get there, right? So it really helps you understand the business you're going to have. And our businesses, we have a really amazing lifetime value of a lot of our clients. It's kind of insane for our membership bases that are online, what they are, and so once we know those, it really helps us understand how much money are we going to spend marketing, right? Especially if you're an on-demand business or membership basis.Julian Barnes 39:12  How much you're willing to invest in marketing.Lesley Logan 39:14  Yes.Julian Barnes 39:14  If you know that your member is paying you 100 bucks a month, which is 1,200 bucks a year, and they have an average tenure of two years, then you know that you have about $2,400 for every client.Lesley Logan 39:27  Yeah.Julian Barnes 39:28  So now you back, that's not even that's before profit.Lesley Logan 39:30  Yep. Okay. Yep.Julian Barnes 39:32  Now you back that down and back that out and say, "Well, how much am I willing to invest by an acquisition cost? Am I willing to invest $100 to make $2,400? Sure. Am I willing to invest $2,000 to make $2,400? Not so much."Lesley Logan 39:32  There are people who will do that, and I think they're crazy.Julian Barnes 39:33  So you know that number because you want to know how much you want to invest.Lesley Logan 39:37  Yes, and it's really important, and it really does take time to get that value if you're a brand new studio. This is going to be something. Julian Barnes 40:00  6 to 18 months, minimum. Lesley Logan 40:02  So it's really important. What was the second two questions?Julian Barnes 40:06  That's what it is. How do you keep your members with you for two, three, four years? How?Lesley Logan 40:14  Okay, so first of all, this is going to sound crazy. If your value system doesn't include commitment and consistency, you've already started your business off on the wrong foot for a long-term lifetime value of a client. You have to actually have in your value of your business, "We want committed or consistent clients." What are we going to do? It's part of our value system to make sure that happens. Maybe that comes from communication, maybe that comes from transparency, maybe that comes from responsibility, maybe that comes from community, but you have to decide in your value system how you're going to get there from the get-go. Because everything in your value system dictates how you make decisions on who you hire, what services you offer, what days you're open, all that stuff, right? Second thing is, if you're not making sure your clients are consistent, if you're just letting them cancel and there's no fees, they're not committed. Guess what, they're going to eventually go somewhere else, because no one's making sure they show up.Julian Barnes 41:11  The word there you're looking for, I think, is accountable.Lesley Logan 41:14  Yes.Julian Barnes 41:15  Accountable. You have to hold your clients accountable to the prescription for the transformation that they said they want. You didn't tell them what they wanted; they told you what they wanted. You told them how to get it.Lesley Logan 41:29  Yeah, exactly. So, I think this is where people are afraid they'll lose clients if they uphold a cancellation policy. Nope, you'll lose them because you didn't. Now, you might lose them in the beginning, like, "This is too harsh." Great, this is not the studio for you. That studio on the street is in charge, go there. I don't know if you'll get your goals, but you won't be charged for not showing up here. You said you wanted to do this; I held a space for you, right? It's really important. And you'll say it in your own words, but I promise you, I promise you, I had clients when I was in LA... I taught in LA for 12 years. I was there for 14, taught 12 years in LA, and when COVID hit, I still had more than half of my clients from the first year I started teaching.Julian Barnes 42:08  How? What did you do to maintain that LTV?Lesley Logan 42:12  Aside from my boundaries, if I traveled, there was a teacher coming into their space at their exact same time, so their schedule didn't change just because my schedule changed. I think this is really important: no matter the size of your space, you've got to have backups or a backup policy in place, so that you can get sick, have to travel, or have a baby, and make sure that they're taken care of at the schedule that they committed to, because it's really hard for them to move their schedule, right? Second thing, if you're not reinstating what they're getting from you, you think that they're mind readers, they're not, right? So, you have to remind them how far they've come, how close they are to their goal. "Oh, you've hit this goal, where are we at now?" You also need to actually... they talk so much, they are nonstop, they think you're their therapist. If you're not listening to the things they're saying they're going to go do with their family, "Oh, you're going to go hike such and such volcano in Europe? Okay, we're going to add some exercises in to make sure you can do that. Oh, you want to start running a marathon? Okay, we got to do these things to help keep your hips open, otherwise your back's going to hurt." You need to hear the things that they're saying they want to do with their kids, their family. You have to insert yourself. Julian Barnes 43:15  You have to listen. I'm hearing you say, 'Listen, listen.'Lesley Logan 43:17  And what do most teachers do? This is the thing, I say this, the industry is having an amazing moment right now, but I promise you, right now, because all the teachers are focused on cues, and all the students are focused on how many people are in the class, you are going to see the pendulum swing the other way. Because people are not there for your cues; they're there for the transformation. And if you're not looking with your eyes at what their body is doing, you don't know what cue you need. You have to see what they're doing, and then give them the correction that they need in that moment. And because we have different learning styles and things like that, you can't... I'm sorry, you can't have memorized cues. You have to learn how to be present, and be present to listen to what they're saying when they're leaving. What are they saying? "Oh, you know, my sister's coming to town next week." Guess what I'm saying: "Oh, is your sister coming with you to class? Do we need to reschedule your sessions?" Because if you can start to train them, then they're never missing, they're getting the consistency. But you have to know that their goals are going to change with their life. My clients, 12 years long, I mean, it's amazing what height we got out of them, and they're older. So I think it's really important for people to actually remember that the impact you want to make is there if you listen, and they'll stay because you keep reminding them how Pilates is part of their life.Julian Barnes 44:32  And so churn, to wrap it up, LTV and churn are related. You want your LTV to be high so they stay with you for many years, and you want to reduce your churn, which is the percentage of clients or members who leave your studio. What are some of the best practices that studio owners can implement to minimize churn?Lesley Logan 44:53  So, I think this is where, if your business is based off waitlists and 12-hour things, and hoping people cancel so they will get off the waitlist, you're actually going to have churn. I actually think this is where we have to really think about who we're trying to serve and how we're serving them. And I would really make sure that your clients are able to be part of the journey of the growth of your business. They should be part of it, celebrated, reminded that they're there. They always need to have a name. Every single person, whoever you hire, no matter how big you get, if they are not saying people's first names, and also following up, "Oh, you've been gone for two weeks because of X surgery. How are you doing? Yes, we paused your membership, but..." actually check on them. "Oh, I don't want to bother them." Oh my god, they won't respond if you're bothering them! We have to actually stick around and be in people's lives, and follow up and remind them that they matter and that they're missed. And if you have any teachers who are not remembering people's names and not remembering that they've been gone, you're going to have a churn problem. I think the reason why my businesses have grown, even in coaching people, and that we have people who've been with us since day one, is because we constantly remind everybody who the OG people were. These people are here; they've been with us for the long haul. They remembered us when it was small, but they're being introduced to the new people when it's bigger, and they're feeling that they're part of a community. I think people forget that people, at the base of everything, just want to belong. And if you're not able to look them in the eye and remember their name and introduce them to somebody else, they're going to feel unseen at some point. So I really do think that churn is reduced when you see people as a human being.Julian Barnes 46:27  So, I have a bonus question for you which is, right in your wheelhouse as a veteran instructor, more like a comment for you to reply to, from the very beginning of this conversation, you haven't used this word, but it's my takeaway of what you've been saying: impact. We talk about how people want transformation. Talk about how do you convert from lead to first-time visitor? How do you convert from first-time visitor to second purchase? How do you keep them a long time? How do you minimize churn? To me, the answer is impact, and what we, at BFS, don't focus on front of house, we're not Pilates instructors, but you obviously are. And so what I like to remind people, and I'm going to ask you to elaborate, I like to remind people none of the processes, none of the systems, none of the messaging, none of the stuff matters if you're not delivering fire classes each and every time. Agree, disagree, assess?Lesley Logan 47:29  Oh, I agree. I also think it's really interesting because I come from this as a classical Pilates instructor, but I coach a lot of contemporary-based Pilates. So my fire classes on the Reformer always start with footwork and probably end with the same exercise. So, when you say fire classes, I think it's really important that I say.Julian Barnes 47:47  I want to say impact. The classes have to deliver impact.Lesley Logan 47:50  Yeah, they have to. Well, I'm saying I'm agreeing with you. I'm also saying you don't have to be someone who's recreating the wheel every time, but people have to feel so different than when they walked in the door, because if they feel the same, then they're not coming back. This is a nice hobby that they have, you fit the thing, but as soon as road construction's up or their job goes across town, you're out of it. Here's what I know about being a teacher for so long in LA: people would drive across freeways to stay with the same teacher because of the impact. Why would they do that when there's a studio... it's LA! There are, and by the way, it's LA, like New York, the best Pilates instructors in the world are in these places, and they're going across town. Why? It is because of the impact. And I think this is where people lose their confidence: they see other people doing things and go, "Oh, I should do that, too. Everyone's Reformers are beige now; I should do beige. Everything is this." No. What is it that you said you would give people, and what is it that they want? And if you can stay clear on that and keep understanding what their new wants are, you will have them for life.Julian Barnes 48:59  This goes back to something you said earlier today: take one client and give everything to, say that again, you said?Lesley Logan 49:07  Take one client and you make them obsessed with you, and then you'll have clients for life.Julian Barnes 49:11  Okay, so unpack that, because I think you're talking about how do you make them obsessed. To me, that sounds like you're saying give them 110%, teach the best class every time, you are the best.Lesley Logan 49:38  It goes back to accountability. I'm going to give 110% in every session, but you have to show up for the sessions, and it's a two-way street, I'm not in your body, right? So you got to make sure that they feel like they can trust you to tell you what's going on, but they have to show up

Episode 591: August 2025 Turn Two Episode release date is August 20, 2025   Show Notes   This week we kick off our new format. Intro of Meeple Nation The World's Most Okayest Podcast Web Page Links to Episodes SaltPOD: A SaltCON Podcast Bios Email us at MeepleNation@gmail.com Patreon Instagram @meeplenation Facebook Meeple Nation Facebook Group Meeple Nation Off Air X Meeple Nation Discord Meeple Nation Become a Chanameeple   Sponsorship Game Toppers  SaltCON   Meeple Nation Gaming Highlights (Highlight-Thirty) Nathan Chromino Bunny Kingdom   Douglas TREOS Andy Inori New Game Radar Nathan Pergola Up or Down Doug Song of Silveranth  Brass: Pittsburgh  Star Wars: Battle of Hoth!  Andy Vantage The Lord of the Rings: Fate of the Fellowship  

Print and Play BasteleckeBärenpark Was habe ich gespielt?Boardgamearena.com: Treos, Ratjack Mit den KindernGemüsewürfelDeducktoFischenPasst nicht Podcast Hinweis Twitter / X – @vintersphrostBluesky – @vintersphrost.bsky.socialMastodon – @vintersphrost@brettspiel.spaceBoardgamearena.com – vintersphrostYucata.de – vintersphrostInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/vintersphrost/YouTube Hörspiel Einspieler – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCER_eNjl0R-Rzev5IMG2uufJSbXt01Mp

In Folge 25 sprechen wir gewohnt ausführlich über TREOS und CIVOLUTION. Neu auf der Karte sind TESSERACT und MEDICAL MYSTERIES MIAMI und im abschließenden Bargeflüster tauschen wir uns über Inserts in Brettspielboxen aus.

Print and Play Bastelecke Was habe ich gespielt?Boardgamearena.com: Treos, Ratjack, Tiwanaku, Faraway, QuartoSchach Mit den KindernOdinDuck & Cover Podcast Hinweis Twitter / X – @vintersphrostBluesky – @vintersphrost.bsky.socialMastodon – @vintersphrost@brettspiel.spaceBoardgamearena.com – vintersphrostYucata.de – vintersphrostInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/vintersphrost/YouTube Hörspiel Einspieler – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCER_eNjl0R-Rzev5IMG2uufJSbXt01Mp

Comenzamos una nueva centena con un vivero en el que hablamos de muchas novedades y algún juego que se nos quedó en el tintero pero que no podíamos dejar pasar. Aunque primero hacemos un breve repaso sobre las impresiones que uno de los componentes del podcast ha experimentado respecto a juegos que el otro componente ya comentó en un vivero anterior. Ahí os va el menú: (0:20:46) The White Castle Matcha (0:30:51) ICE (0:41:35) Barcelona Passeig de Gracia (0:54:59) Through Ice & Snow (1:23:10) TREOS (1:34:41) Stress Botics (1:47:28) Flower Fields (2:05:35) Tiger & Dragon

Print and Play Bastelecke Was habe ich gespielt?Boardgamearena.com: Treos, Quarto, RatjackSea Salt & Paper Mit den Kindern Podcast Hinweis Twitter / X – @vintersphrostBluesky – @vintersphrost.bsky.socialMastodon – @vintersphrost@brettspiel.spaceBoardgamearena.com – vintersphrostYucata.de – vintersphrostInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/vintersphrost/YouTube Hörspiel Einspieler – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCER_eNjl0R-Rzev5IMG2uufJSbXt01Mp

Print and Play BasteleckeCitizens of the Spark(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thunderworks/citizens-of-the-spark) Promos für Der Herr der Ringe – Duell um Mittelerde(https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/430036/the-lord-of-the-rings-duel-for-middle-earth-grond)(https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/428620/the-lord-of-the-rings-duel-for-middle-earth-the-sh) Was habe ich gespielt?Boardgamearena.com: Treos, Cacao, Dice Hospital ER Emergency RollCodenames App Mit den KindernTreosSoulaweenInfiltraitors Podcast Hinweis Twitter / X – @vintersphrostBluesky – @vintersphrost.bsky.socialMastodon – @vintersphrost@brettspiel.spaceBoardgamearena.com – vintersphrostYucata.de – vintersphrostInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/vintersphrost/YouTube Hörspiel Einspieler – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCER_eNjl0R-Rzev5IMG2uufJSbXt01Mp

Guuuude und Hallo,Eben noch vor der Messe, nun ist sie leider schon vorbei und hier unsere großen SPIEL Nachlese. Andreas und Alex tauschen sich über ihre High- und Lowlights der größten Brettspielmesse der Welt aus. Fängt es noch seicht mit Meeps, Miezekatze und Ralf zur Linde an, geht es knallhart an die Spiele: Castle Combo, bomb Busters, Faraway, The Gang, Snatch It, Monster Smash, River of Gold, Treos, Medium, What  The Rule und und und... ihr seht schon: PICKE PACKE VOLL !!! Viel Spaß beim Hören,euer Monkey Talk TeamIhr könnt gar nicht genug von uns bekommen?   Exklusive Podcastfolgen und viel mehr https://www.patreon.com/BoardgameMonkeys?fan_landing=true Lest ausführliche Rezensionen auf unserer Homepage https://www.boardgamemonkeys.com/ Diskutiert mit uns über die aktuelle Folge auf unserem Discord https://discord.gg/dFdWtSR3YJ Supportet uns über den Kauf von Brettspielen über unsere Affiliatelinks https://www.meeplebox.de/?affiliate=bgm https://www.fantasywelt.de/?bgm=g4GLChMaambJstx7Wdrt Oder checkt mal unseren Merch-Store ab https://boardgamemonkeys.myspreadshop.de/Support the showSupport the show

Print and Play Bastelecke Was habe ich gespielt?Spiele auf BGA & Yucata.de: Draft & Write Records, Treos, Citrus Mit den KindernDie magischen SchlüsselCamel UpZauberei hoch drei Podcast Hinweis Twitter / X – @vintersphrostBluesky – @vintersphrost.bsky.socialMastodon – @vintersphrost@brettspiel.spaceBoardgamearena.com – vintersphrostYucata.de – vintersphrostInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/vintersphrost/YouTube Hörspiel Einspieler – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCER_eNjl0R-Rzev5IMG2uufJSbXt01Mp

Auf der Road to Essen zur SPIEL'24, haben Smuker und Mathias mit Sabine Laure-Müller über die Neuheiten von Lookout Spiele gesprochen - mit einer Ausnahme -, denn zu Treos hatten sie die Möglichkeit mit dem Autor Arne aus dem Siepen ein Interview zu führen. Beides hört Ihr in dieser Ausgabe des Beeple Radios 2024.

Recently joined staff writer (and former member of the band Attalus) John Mark Amos makes his first appearance on the show to trade stories and opinions with regular host Chase Tremaine about the strangely commonplace occurrence of Christian rock bands who only ever released two albums. This episode is sponsored by AOH Music, whose new single "Heal Our World (Live)" is available now. Click here for more information. The JFH Podcast is hosted and produced by Chase Tremaine and executive produced by John DiBiase and Christopher Smith. To meet the people behind the show, discuss the episodes, ask questions, and engage in conversations with other listeners, join the JFH Podcast group on Facebook.

Host Casandra Grundstrom is joined by special guest Assistant Professor Sam Zaza  from Middle Tennessee State University, USA. Her main research interests lie in diversity, equity, and inclusion; IT career and nature of work, and methodological approaches. She is active in AIS as the SIG Social Inclusion President, SIG Lead President, and Women College CoChair and is the recent winner of the Diversity and Inclusion Advocate of the Year (2023). Sam has published her work in various journals such as Information & Organization, and Communications of the Association for Information Systems, among other proceedings in regional and international conferences.March is women's month, and we are back for the second time to talk about women in information systems. We unravel what social inclusion is and consider social inclusion from varying perspectives applied to the information systems discipline. We explore and reflect on what are 'our' challenges for social inclusion in conferences and the IS community, ponder why there is limited gender-related research, and ways forward for change. References:Gupta, B., Loiacono, E. T., Dutchak, I. G., & Thatcher, J. B. (2019). A field-based view on gender in the information systems discipline: Preliminary evidence and an agenda for change. Journal of the Association for Information Systems, 20(12), 2. Loiacono, E., Iyer, L., Ashong Elliot, M. A., & Cooper, V. A. (2021). Engaging Women in Information Systems: Where Are We Headed?. Masiero, Silvia and Aaltonen, Aleksi, "Gender Bias in Information Systems Research: A Literature Review" (2020). AISWN International Research Workshop on Women, IS and Grand Challenges 2020. 2.https://aisel.aisnet.org/aiswn2020/2 Trauth, E. M., & Howcroft, D. (2006). Social inclusion and the information systems field: why now?. In Social Inclusion: Societal and Organizational Implications for Information Systems: IFIP TC8 WG8. 2 International Working Conference, July 12–15, 2006, Limerick, Ireland (pp. 3-12). Springer US.Trauth, E. (2017). A research agenda for social inclusion in information systems. ACM SIGMIS Database: the Database for Advances in Information Systems, 48(2), 9-20.Zaza, Sam; Annabi, Hala; and Connolly, Amy J., "All you need to know about publishing Social Inclusion Research in high-quality IS Journals?" (2022). AMCIS 2022 TREOs. 25. https://aisel.aisnet.org/treos_amcis2022/25 Zhou, Shimi; Loiacono, Eleanor; Nerur, Sridhar; Randolph, Adriane B.; Lingo, Elizabeth; Iyer, Lakshmi; and Carter, Michelle, "Authorship, Collaboration, and Influence of Women IS Scholars: Using Social Network Analysis" (2022). AMCIS 2022 Proceedings. 6. https://aisel.aisnet.org/amcis2022/sig_si/sig_si/6 Other sources:AIS Women's Network: https://www.aiswn.org and Twitter @AISWN_AIS Women's IMPACT IT Research Grant: https://impactit.pages.wm.edu/ Check out these other women-oriented podcasts:https://www.cathymazak.com/podcast/https://theresearchher.com/ Special note: I am disgusted that I need to disclose this. Hate speech will not be tolerated and any offenders will be blocked and reported. 

Looking to secure his place amongst the Order of the Gauntlet, Treos heads out into the Field Ward to stop some thugs from making trouble. Thankfully his friends come along because the main thug making trouble turns out to be a real Bull. Durgan Phylund - Cleric of Gond - played by Allen Ildan of House Argith - Rogue - played by Jesse Oliver Firewing - Fairy Bard - played by Matt Sarril Ostoroth - Aberrant Mind Sorcerer - played by Jon Treos Windsong - Leonin Fighter - played by Brandon We're running Waterdeep: Dragon Heist for this campaign.

Idag er det afslørende interview med Thomas Treo og vi SKAL have svar på alt. Han vil give os svarene som vi har søgt på, om Lars Lilholt, de mange mord, nedbrændingerne af pladestudierne og nedlukningen af Radio 24syv. Det er konklusionen op vores True Crime-serie og det har været en rejse med mange fysiske og psykiske traumer. HVEM ER BANGE FOR LARS LILHOLT? er en ny True Crime-serie, hvor vi har fundet ud af, at den folkekære Lars Lilholt har en større magt over den danske musikbranche, som trækker mørke og drabelige spor efter sig.

PREMIERE PÅ NY TRUE CRIME-SERIE! I forbindelse med en undersøgelse af sexisme i mediebranchen, har vores researcher Gantimir fundet en noget besynderlig og farlig forbindelse imellem EkstraBladets musikanmelder Thomas Treo og den folkekære musiker Lars Lilholt. Et forhold, som tegner et noget mere anderledes og dystert billede af Lars Lilholt. I dagens afsnit skal vi se nærmere på mønsteret i Treos musikanmeldelser, Lars Lilholts karriere og så får vi en anonym trussel på vores telefonsvarer.

Join me and my guest, Steven Robyn, talk about his passion for solving business challenges and helping entrepreneurs turn their ideas into profitable ventures. Steven is the Marketing Operations Director of DivNotes Inc. and the President and Co-Founder of Treos. He shares some useful tips on how you can unlock the business potential in your tech idea. So, stay tuned and enjoy! In this episode, you'll learn about:●    The importance of networks in the success of a business - It's who you know, more so than what you know!●    Doing a SWOT analysis is a good starting point if you have a business concept that you want to develop. ●    If you want to go far with your software idea, you need an good team to back you up. Don't do it alone!●    The difference between a Toronto investor and a San Francisco investor●    Where can you find good resources if you want to venture into the tech /software business?●    And more! About Steven Robyn:Steven Robyn is the President and one of the Co-Founders of Treos, bringing a pragmatic humanitarian approach to business with a vision for efficiency optimization and a belief that all businesses have room for growth. From Steven's Western University days, he has been entrepreneurial, owning an e-commerce auto parts business that grew into a 3100 sq/ft fleet management repair facility before becoming a Business Analyst in Toronto specializing in identifying profitable changes to operations.He is also the Marketing Operations Director at DivNotes.Inc, a Toronto-based software development firm that designs and develops a broad range of custom-built cloud and mobile software solutions for funded startups, established businesses and governments.You can find Steven Robyn on: ●    LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/stevenrobyn●    Personal Website - stevenrobyn.com●    Company Website - divnotes.com   

Today we're going to look at the history of the Palm.  It might be hard to remember at this point, but once upon a time, we didn't all have mobile devices connected to the Internet. There was no Facebook and Grubhub. But in the 80s, computer scientists were starting to think about what ubiquitous computing would look like. We got the Psion and the HP Jaguar (which ran on DOS). But these seemed much more like really small laptops. And with tiny keyboards.  General Magic spun out of Apple in 1990 but missed the mark. Other devices were continuing to hit the market, some running PenPoint from Go Corporation - but none really worked out. But former Intel, GRiD, and then Tandy employee Jeff Hawkins envisioned a personal digital assistant and created Palm Computing to create one in 1992. He had been interested in pen-based computing and worked with pattern recognition for handwriting at UC Berkeley. He asked Ed Colligan of Radius and Donna Dubinsky of Claris to join him. She would become CEO. They worked with Casio and Tandy to release the Casio Zoomer in 1993. The Apple Newton came along in 1993 and partially due to processor speed and partially due to just immaturity in the market, both devices failed to resonate with the market. The Newton did better, but the General Magic ideas that had caught the imagination of the world were alive and well. HP Jaguars were using Palm's synchronization software and so they were able to stay afloat.  And so Hawkins got to work on new character recognition software. He got a tour of Xerox PARC, as did everyone else in computing and they saw Unistrokes, which had been developed by David Goldberg. Unistrokes resembled shorthand and required users to learn a new way of writing but proved much more effective. Hawkins went on to build Graffiti, based on that same concept and as Xerox patented the technology they would go into legal battles until Palm eventually settled for $22.5 million.  More devices were coming every year and by 1995 Palm Computing was getting close to releasing a device. They had about $3 million dollars to play with. They would produce a device that had less buttons and so a larger screen size than other devices. It had the best handwriting technology on the market. It was the perfect size. Which Hawkins had made sure of by carrying around a block of wood in his pocket and to meetings to test it. Only problem is that they ran out of cash during the R&D and couldn't take it to market. But they knew they hit the mark.  The industry had been planning for a pen-based computing device for some time and US Robotics saw an opening. Palm ended up selling to US Robotics, who had made a bundle selling modems, for $44 million dollars. And they got folded into another acquisition, 3Com, which had been built by Bob Metcalfe, who co-invented Ethernet. US Robotics banked on Ethernet being the next wave. And they were right. But they also banked on pen computing. And were right again! US Robotics launched the Palm Pilot 1000 with 128k of RAM and the Palm Pilot 5000 with 518k of RAM in 1996. This was the first device that actually hit the mark. People became obsessed with Graffiti. You connected it to the computer using a serial port to synchronize Notes, Contacts, and Calendars. It seems like such a small thing now, but it was huge then. They were an instant success. Everyone in computing knew something would come along, but they didn't realize this was it. Until it was! HP, Ericsson, Sharp, NEC, Casio, Compaq, and Philips would all release handhelds but the Palm was the thing.  By 1998 the three founders were done getting moved around and left, creating a new company to make a similar device, called Handspring. Apple continued to flounder in the space releasing the eMate and then the MessagePad. But the Handspring devices were eerily similar to the Palms. Both would get infrared, USB, and the Handspring Visor would even run Palm OS 3. But the founders had a vision for something more. They would take Handspring public in 2000. 3Com would take Palm public in 2000. Only problem is the dot com bubble. Well, that and Research in Notion began to ship the Blackberry OS in 1999 and the next wave of devices began to chip away at the market share. Shares dropped over 90% and by 2002 Palm had to set up a subsidiary for the Palm OS. But again, the crew at Handspring had something more in mind. They released the Tree in 2002. The Handspring Treo was, check this out, a smart phone. It could do email, SMS, voice calls. Over the years they would add a camera, GPS, MP3, and Wi-Fi. Basically what we all expect from a smartphone today.  Handspring merged with Palm in 2003 and they released the Palm Tree 600. They merged back the company the OS had been spun out into, finally all merged back together in 2005. Meanwhile, Pilot pens had sued Palm and the devices were then just called Palm. We got a few, with the Palm V probably being the best, got a few new features, lots and lots of syncing problems, when new sync tools were added.  Now that all of the parts of the company were back together, they started planning for a new OS, which they announced in 2009. And webOS was supposed to be huge. And they announced the Palm Pre, the killer next Smartphone.  The only problem is that the iPhone had come along in 2007. And Android was released in 2008. Palm had the right idea. They just got sideswiped by Apple and Google.  And they ran out of money. They were bought by Hewlett-Packard in 2010 for 1.2 billion dollars. Under new management the company was again split into parts, with WebOS never really taking off, the PRe 3 never really shipping, and TouchPads not actually being any good and ultimately ending in the CEO of HP getting fired (along with other things). Once Meg Whitman stepped in as CEO, WebOS was open sourced and the remaining assets sold off to LG Electronics to be used in Smart TVs.  The Palm Pilot was the first successful handheld device. It gave us permission to think about more. The iPod came along in 2001, in a red ocean of crappy MP3 handheld devices. And over time it would get some of the features of the Palm. But I can still remember the day the iPhone came out and the few dozen people I knew with Treos cursing because they knew it was time to replace it. In the meantime Windows CE and other mobile operating systems had just pilfered market share away from Palm slowly. The founders invented something people truly loved. For awhile. And they had the right vision for the next thing that people would love. They just couldn't keep up with the swell that would become the iPhone and Android, which now own pretty much the entire market.  And so Palm is no more. But they certainly left a dent in the universe. And we owe them our thanks for that. Just as I owe you my thanks for tuning in to this episode of the history of computing podcast. We are so lucky to decided to listen in - you're welcome back any time! Have a great day!

Episode 191 - You requested it and FINALLY here it is!  Casey Crescenzo - the mega talented mastermind behind The Dear Hunter and former frontman of cinematic post-hardcore legends The Receiving End of Sirens joins the show!  The discussion ranges from Casey's super musical upbringing, the demise of TREOS, his only ever music lesson, and Shane's confusion with the "other" band - Deer Hunter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Episode 030, I chronicle the making of one of my all-time favorite albums: The Receiving End of Sirens' Between The Heart And The Synapse. Released on April 26, 2005, Between The Heart And The Synapse was TREOS' debut full-length album – and marked the introduction of newcomer Casey Crescenzo, who stepped into the Boston-based group after original singer Ben Potrykus left the band in 2003. Crescenzo's musical versatility – bordering on genius – was immediately felt, and he pushed his new bandmates to greater musical heights along with introducing the electronic elements that made Synapse such a masterpiece. Balancing three guitars, three adept singers, complex time signatures, and cohesive lyrical content is no easy task, but TREOS made these lofty ambitions look effortless. That's why it remains a favorite of mine a decade later – and inspired bands like Cartel and Panic! At The Disco to push their craft to the next level. To celebrate the album's 10th anniversary, I caught up with old friends Brendan Brown (bass/vocals) and Nate Patterson (guitar) to share a lot of laughs, reminisce about writing Synapse, and learn why they loved tormenting former tourmates Panic! At The Disco. I hope you enjoy this very fun chat. Links: Between The Heart And The Synapse on iTunes Voice & Verse Podcast on iTunes | Stitcher | Twitter | Facebook

It's Been How Long?   Can you believe it's been 20 years since LAPUG was created?  The group was originally created in 1992 as a Special Interest Group (SIG) of the old Los Angeles Macintosh User Group (LAMG) -- one of the largest user groups in the world with a membership of over 5,000 at its peak. Monthly meetings back in the early 1990s peaked at over 600-700 attendees per meeting!!  For those of you who were with us back then (and there are quite a few!), remember our meetings at the DWP auditorium in downtown LA? What about the meetings at the school in Santa Monica before that?! Of course, that was before the Internet got really popular and Mac users got their info directly on their computer. The LAMG and all the large user groups died out but the LAPUG group has only grown since then (we have a membership of over 300) and we've had a lot of fun. In the mid-90's, the LAPUG became a fully recognized user group with Apple and we've focused on lots of portable technologies -- starting with the original PowerBooks (I've still got a PB 170 lying around), the Newton (got a few of those too), Palm and other related handhelds,Treos, MacBooks, iPods, iPhones and, of course, iPads. Who knows what's to come. We're going to celebrate our 20 years with a special pot luck party for our December 10th (at 7:00 pm) meeting. Of course, we'll have some tech talk! We'll talk about the new iMacs that were just went on sale last week as well as the new iTunes. The new iPad Mini with LTE is now shipping (we've got one of those, too) and we'll talk about a few really cool apps and utilities that have been introduced to make up for some missing features in Mountain Lion. And, of course, we'll spend some time with Q&A.

In today's TreoCast we discuss the implications of the iPhone Software Roadmap on the world of Treos, as well as some other news. Plus: your emails and the community!

Welcome to The Teachers Podcast Episode 4 Science and Social Networking from Sputnik to Smart Phones for Students. Live from New Jersey, your local satellite, and as always teacherspodcast.org. a new generation of EdTech professional development. Myspace to Microsoft; Cell phones to MyChingo ringing with listener comments; Firefly, Wherifone and TicTalk to slimmed down Treos; virtual Smithsonian, Scholastic Bookflix to webkins! This week a constellation of resources: news articles on Sputnik's 50th anniversary, Smart Phones for Students, Computerized Testing of Higher Order Thinking Skills?, Social Networking Abounds, free online data storage from Microsoft, the Smithsonian's new Virtual African American History Museum: all part of the conversation of EdTech you can use! This innovative production is a New Generation of Ed Tech PD: News, views, research and resources you can use are featured in every episode of The Teachers Podcast. The popular podcasting team of Mark Gura and Dr. Kathy King are teachers, ed tech experts, authors and professors. This is PD which includes fun, abundant resources and crisp insight from the perspective of what you can use today and tomorrow. Make teacherspodcast.org your new home for educational resources and pd. Email: teacherspodcast@gmail.com The Teachers Podcast is supported and copyrighted by Transformation Education LLC, King and Gura an innovative education team. (2007)

PAMobile works with Treos too, Foleo sticking to summer launch possibly debuting with video support, WM Treo updates, Centro leaked press shot, Apple Event September 5

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Elizabeth Charnock CEO and founder, Cataphora Date: July 24, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Elizabeth Charnock BIO: Elizabeth Charnock is the CEO and co-founder of Chenope, a bootstrapped startup that creates analytics that predict the future of an organization based on the observable behaviors of its members based on whatever data is available. Prior to that Elizabeth founded Cataphora and led it from concept to profitability, funded entirely by revenues from clients and without any outside investment. The company's genesis was a fundamental insight that Elizabeth had about a revolutionary approach to information retrieval. Starting from that idea, and a kitchen table group of four employees, she has guided the growth of Cataphora to over 100 employees. The company has seen three consecutive years of at least 100% growth in revenue, customers, and employee head count. In 2006, the company moved into a dedicated new headquarters building in Redwood City, California, and opened an office in Washington, DC, two blocks from the White House. 2006 also saw the granting of all claims in Cataphora’s fundamental technology patent, which Elizabeth co-authored. In leading Cataphora’s success, Elizabeth has drawn on her prior experience as an entrepreneur and CEO, and on her extensive knowledge of information retrieval technology and business. Prior to starting Cataphora, Elizabeth was CEO and founder of Troba, an industry leading Customer Relationship Management software company which she sold in 2001. Her previous experience includes management and senior engineering positions at international high tech companies such as Hewlett-Packard and Sun Microsystems. She started her career at Unisys in Plymouth, Michigan, where she ran a human factors laboratory. Elizabeth has lived in both France and Germany and speaks both of those languages. She has been a dedicated jazz dance performer. She enjoys travel, as well as spending time at home with her whippet, Ragnar, and African Gray parrot, Howard. Elizabeth holds a BS in Theoretical Mathematics from the University of Michigan Honors Program, which she entered at the age of sixteen. Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Woman and Information Technology, or NCWIT. With me today, is Larry Nelson, from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Welcome. Larry Nelson: Hello. I'm so happy to be here. Lucy: And Lee Kennedy, who's a co‑founder of Tricalyx, a new company here in Boulder. Lee Kennedy: Hi. Lucy: Lee is also an NCWIT director. So, today, we're interviewing Elizabeth Charnock, the CEO and founder of Cataphora. Elizabeth, welcome. Elizabeth Charnock: Thank you. Larry: Boy, I tell you, I'm so excited to be a part of this. It's a great program, and sorely needed out there, which is what really makes it extra special. Lucy: Well, Elizabeth's company is just extremely interesting to me. Elizabeth, I see, from looking online, that you're a patent holder? Elizabeth: That's correct. Lucy: And your company works on email. You must have some pretty sassy algorithms there, trying to figure out the content [laughs] of email. Why don't you give us a bit of information about your company? Elizabeth: Sure, I'd love to. First of all, it's not just about email. In fact, the idea that the company is founded on is that search is really no longer just about content. The search algorithms that are out there now, with the exception of Google's, on the Internet, all have very much to do with classifying documents according to content. And most documents used to have quite a bit of content, making this fairly easy to do. So you can see how many times, for example, the word "chicken" appears in a document or the word "hammer" appears in a document, or how many times the words "hammer" and "chicken" co‑occur in the same sentence or paragraph or so on. But now, in the world we live in, people are so wired‑‑we all have Blackberries; we've got Treos and the equivalent devices; we use IM‑‑with the result that email, and even informal memos, are a whole lot less formal and less long than they used to be. So, what our technology is all about is weaving together these different, smaller items into a searchable object that's meaningful. So, what we've done is changed the boundary of search. So search, for us, is no longer about an email or an IM or a phone‑rep message; it's about the dialog that can be put back together with our algorithms. To give a concrete example of this, while it's become a bit hackneyed at this point; let's say you have a message, of whatever form, whose entire content is just, "Yes, let's do it." Well, what does that mean? Larry: [laughs] Elizabeth: Does it mean, "Let's go commit securities fraud"? "Let's go embezzle that 300,000 bucks"? Or maybe it just means, "Let's go fishing." Right? How are you going to know? It used to be that the answer was in the same document. Now the answer may be two or three documents or items away. And that's what our company's all about. Lucy: Well, it is really interesting. And I think the algorithms must really be pretty fascinating. Larry: Boy, I'll say. One thing I can't help but wonder, just as kind of an opening question, is how did you get into technology? And then maybe a second part of that question is what do you think is really cool today, in addition to what you're doing? Elizabeth: How I got into technology, originally, as a child? My father is an electrical engineer and very, very much, I think, pushed me that direction, initially‑‑especially since I was an only child, so I was his one opportunity. But when I was in college at the University of Michigan, they had a program in mathematics that was trying to subvert what everybody at the time thought was almost just a law of nature, which was the fact that no significantly original, or significant period, mathematics had ever been done by anybody over the age of 27. Lucy: I remember that. Elizabeth: So somebody endowed the University of Michigan with a program to try to push promising mathematicians through their PhDs, with a little bit more time before their brain turned to mush at the age of 27. And the program was so much better than anything else that was out there that, even though I had no intentions of being a math major when I entered college, within a few months it was pretty clear that that's what I was going to do. And that's what I did. Larry: Wow. Lucy: Theoretical mathematics degree. That's amazing. Lee: It is. Elizabeth: People don't believe me now. They assume I must be a lawyer because of the field that my company is currently operating in. [laughter] Lucy: And just as a follow‑up with that, as you look out into the technology spaces today, what, in addition to some of the things that you're working on at Cataphora, are you thinking personally are just really cool? Elizabeth: This is going to sound a little silly, perhaps, but I think there's going to be a lot more things out there like this. I don't know if any of you guys have a Roomba‑‑you know the robotic little cleaning vacuum... Larry: [laughs] Lucy: In fact, Helen Greiner has been one of our interviews as well, from iRobot. Elizabeth: It's a wonderful thing. And I think that they could have done more, in terms of making it more, I don't want to say cutesy, but something that would maybe appeal to a broader set of people. I actually bought it for my husband for his birthday just because I thought he'd think it was cool. Larry: [laughs] Elizabeth: And I think that home robotics that actually do something useful, that are engaging and are not ridiculously expensive, I think, are a big area. I think there's still a lot to be done, obviously, in the area of search, apart from what Cataphora is doing. It's not uncommon, in the work that we do‑‑which is, at this point, mostly investigation and litigation‑‑to get literally 10 million items or more for a case. And these are not Enron‑like cases; these are more run‑of‑the‑mill sorts of cases. Lucy: Wow. Elizabeth: And so, while we're right now focused on the enterprise aspects of it and the legal aspects of it, there are obviously the personal information management of it all that I think is a really interesting problem. And some of the social networking stuff, I think, while a lot of it is somewhat trivial, some of it's really quite interesting. If you can build special‑interest groups for different types of research, or for people who are really expert or compassionate about a certain, very specific kind of thing, I think that's technology very well used. Lucy: I agree. It's huge. And it's changing so many things: the way people market, the way people find out what their interested in. It's amazing. Larry: Hmm. Lucy: Well, Elizabeth, you mentioned your dad as an EE, and he had influenced you into technology. What made you become an entrepreneur, and what about being an entrepreneur makes you tick? Elizabeth: In my case, those who have watched me progress, especially since I've come out to Silicon Valley‑‑because I'm from Michigan originally‑‑I think would say that it had to do with the fact that I was, again and again, in situations in much larger companies where I could see that the company was in decline, and there really was nothing much that I could do about it. And I wanted to have a center of excellence around me. I wanted to do work that I was proud of. I wanted to be working someplace where it was good to get up in the morning and go to work. And that sort of drove me to wanting to roll my own. For example, I joined Hewlett‑Packard at the point that it was starting to decline, and saw what that looked like, and it was just a very frustrating place to be. And it was interesting for me to see the "Wall Street Journal" extensive coverage of the firing of Carly Fiorina, and they were noting that many of these problems really pre‑dated her, even if she exacerbated some of them. And I was just so happy to see that, after 10 years, that now it was out in the open. But yeah, I spent a good several years there, and similarly joined Sun at the point it was arguably starting to decline. And I felt that I could do a better job, and I wanted to do a better job, even if at a smaller scale. Lucy: So, in terms of entrepreneurship, many people have mentors or people who influence them along the way. And we were just curious who your role models are. Who influenced you, and how did they influence you? Elizabeth: As an entrepreneur in different ways, John Nesheim‑‑the guy who writes the books on startups, he's best well‑known for writing the book, "High‑Tech Start Up" which here in the Valley is considered the Bible for starting a startup‑‑is an adviser of the company and is a really great mentor. At this point, he really spends his life teaching high‑tech entrepreneurial ship at Cornell, and writing books about it and advising a few companies. So he's seen many, many, many variations of the movie. He's very wise, and he's always willing to help. Julie Wainwright, who was the much‑maligned CEO of Pets.com during the bubble, I think is a really good person, and has a lot to offer in terms of, well, when you take a fall, you get back up on the horse‑‑has a great deal of personal grace and elegance. And Philippe Courteaux, who hired me into their elite, who I believe is the only four‑time successful CEO in Silicon Valley history. Obviously, there's a huge amount to learn from. Larry: Wow. I was not aware of that fact. I'm going to have to look more up on that. Lucy: You've got another book to read. Larry: Yeah, I do. Two other books... Lucy: [laughs] Two other books. Lee: That's an impressive list of mentors. Larry: Boy, I'll say. Elizabeth, I do have to point out that I was born in Michigan, so I understand. But I chose Colorado. I wanted to be surrounded a bunch of really neat people in a wonderful climate. Lucy: [laughs] Little plug there for Colorado. Larry: Little plug. Elizabeth, if you were to look back at the different things that you've been through‑‑and I'm sure you've had a couple of the tough moments‑‑what's maybe the toughest thing that you had to live through during your career? Elizabeth: Unfortunately, there's more than one... Lucy: Like or us all. Elizabeth: This is my second company. My first company was during the bubble, and we ended up having to sell it after the individual VC left the VC firm after the bubble burst‑‑at the point that many venture capitalists were no longer getting along with one another. And that was very, very difficult, not just because it was failure in some sense, even though we ultimately were able to sell it and at least get everybody a job, but because it was so unfair, in the sense that we had met all of our goals, we had exceeded some of our goals, and there was an exogenous failure event, as one person put it. And that's very difficult to explain to people who have really put their heart and soul into something. Obviously, it was a very difficult time, yet one of the things I am most proud of was that many of those same, original people joined this company, Cataphora, and made it possible for us to get to the point we are now‑‑which is to say we're a 100‑employee company in the Valley that has never taken a dime of investment from anybody, not even ourselves. Lucy: And I noticed that in some of the information on the web about your company. And I can really empathize with some of these unfair events in the world of startups. I was on the board of a company where a venture capitalist, in a Series B round, backed away at the very last minute, when, if that company had chosen to just bring more partners to the table originally, the company could have kept going. And as a result, gone. Larry: Yep. Lucy: That can be very, very hard. Elizabeth: I think that, as a practical matter, one of the things that very few people understand about the startup world is that there is very, very, very little‑‑and in fact, arguably no‑‑accountability on the part of the investors. Lucy: So it's clear you've been through a lot of challenges. Elizabeth: Yes. Lucy: If you were sitting with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what kind of advice would you give them? Elizabeth: Something, actually, that is very much stressed on John Nesheim's site, at least when last I looked, which is that if failure will completely destroy you, you should not go down this path. Lucy: Hmm. Larry: Good point. Elizabeth: Kind of an odd thing to say, perhaps, on a website of that nature. But it's a very important one, I think, because, statistically, depending on whose numbers you believe exactly, 99 percent of all startups fail. It depends at what point you start measuring. At what point does the startup become significant enough that it exists? Does it have to incorporate? Does it have to have people spending significant amounts of time on it? Where does conception occur? If you want to look at it that way. No matter how you measure it, the vast, vast, vast majority fail‑‑some for avoidable reasons, some for unavoidable reasons. Some were perhaps ill‑conceived. But for whatever the reason, statistically, you're very, very likely to fail. And if you can't accept that initially, then it's perhaps better to stay in that larger company, then to go out there and follow somebody else who's taking the load on their shoulders more than you are on yours. Lucy: And so I'm sure you have a network of friends who are in various stages of startup companies. And if they fail, what do you tell them to console them? Elizabeth: The main thing I say is, hopefully, you learn something from it, whether it's something to do with things to do again, things to avoid doing. If at all possible, what you learn about yourself, what you learn about other people that you are in the endeavor with. And you, at this point, have to make a real decision, not a knee‑jerk one, as to what you now want to do. Lucy: Well, and I think that that's very wise advice. I'm sure that that wisdom is part of what has given you your success as an entrepreneur. What other characteristics do you have that you think have given you advantage? Elizabeth: I would certainly say that one of them is persistence and discipline. So that's two, but obviously they're interrelated. Levelheadedness is something that I always tell people at Cataphora is a huge, huge, huge component to startup success because, without it, it's almost impossible to take the long view of anything. If you can't take the long view, then you're not going to last very long. The former VP of marketing here at my last company said, "Well, the startup experience is like a roller coaster, but with the key difference that when you're high, you're on the top of the roller coaster." You can either make $800 million or dominate the world. The reality is that you're not actually as high as you think you are. But the inverse is also true. When you're at the low part of the roller coaster, you're probably not as badly off as you feel that particular day. And trying to avoid riding the roller coaster, I think, is a really critical part of success. Obviously, there's passion for it. I think people greatly underrate the importance of leadership, character flexibility, and all those traits that make other people follow that person into the fire. Lee: And they have to want to follow you, especially in the startup world. Elizabeth: Exactly. Larry: Boy, I tell you what, you mentioned earlier that many people joined your company that you have today that were with the other company. That really does say a lot about you and the management team you put together. Lucy: So, Elizabeth, considering this is the second startup you've done, how do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives? Because we all know startups are seven by 24. Elizabeth: Nobody ever likes this answer, but the truth of it is you can't do both. Maybe at some point you can, but startups are 24 by 7, so either you have enough people at the right positions to really delegate everything to you in such a way that you can not have to work massive numbers of hours. But I've never really seen that happen in practice. I do work less than I did two or three years ago. Probably a year or two from now, I'll work a little bit less. But if you want 40 or 50‑hour weeks, startups, but especially being a startup CEO, is not for you. I do make sure I exercise and do yoga and make some time for the things that I really have to. Fortunately, my husband works here, so that is a simplifying assumption. Lucy: [laughs] That is something that you do to bring balance. Make sure that you employ your husband. Larry: One of the things that author, John Nesheim, had brought up about, "If failure is going to crush you, " or something to that effect, I think the idea is, also, if the entrepreneur has this fear of failure, that's what they really also have to avoid. Lucy: Right. So, Elizabeth, you've really achieved a lot in your career so far. What's next for you? Give our listeners a little hint of what you're thinking about for the future. Elizabeth: Well, we think Cataphora is a great opportunity. As anybody who's been out there in the tech world knows, it's not just a matter of having a really good idea; it's also the timing of it. Timing is everything in these things, and so we intend to stick with this for quite a while. And who knows? Maybe my next one will have to do with robots. Larry: [laughs] Elizabeth: But right now, I am very much focused on making Cataphora the next big software company. And I think it can be. And that's what I'm looking forward to doing. Lucy: Well, and in fact, with the robots, we'll make sure that you and Helen get together. Larry: [laughs] Lucy: Helen has shown us little pictures of Roombas in costumes and things like that, which are pretty exciting. So, we really do want to thank you, Elizabeth, for your time. We know you're busy. And I know our listeners will really appreciate hearing your views on entrepreneurism. I wanted to also congratulate you on your "Fast Company" Fast 50 article. It was a great picture. I loved it. The caption, like, "So don't mess with Elizabeth Charnock, CEO of Cataphora." Larry: That's why we were so gentle to begin with. [laughter] Lucy: We really do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. And I wanted to remind listeners where they can find this podcast. It's at www.ncwit.org. And it will also be syndicated on... Larry: www.w3w3.com. Lucy: And please make sure you pass this podcast along to a friend. Thanks very much, Elizabeth. Elizabeth: Thank you. Lee: Bye‑bye. Larry: See you soon. Bye‑bye. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Elizabeth CharnockInterview Summary: Starting with a good idea and a group of four kitchen-table employees, and funded entirely by revenues from clients (without any outside investment), Elizabeth Charnock has guided Cataphora into a profitable company with three consecutive years of at least 100% growth in revenue, customers, and employee head count. Release Date: July 24, 2007Interview Subject: Elizabeth CharnockInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 17:34

PA Giveaway still going on, Windows Mobile 6 Announced, WM 6 on Treos, ALP Pics and Info

Mike and Dieter discuss Palms new Treo announcement, Treos on a plane, two bluetooth headsets and two cases, how to listen to podcasts on your Treo, and the latest from the forums.