Podcasts about marin humane society

Every animal is telling you something. The real question is whether you're paying attention. I sit down with animal behavior expert Hanne Grice to explore what our pets reveal about trust, stress, communication, and even ourselves. Drawing on nearly 20 years of experience, Hanne explains why behavior is never random, why outdated dominance theories continue to harm animals, and how curiosity leads to better relationships with both pets and people. We also discuss guide dogs, emotional regulation, grief, parenting with dogs, and the science behind building trust through predictability and choice. I believe you'll find this conversation valuable whether you share your life with animals or simply want to become a better leader, communicator, and observer of those around you Highlights: 05:47 – The biggest breakthrough in animal behavior starts with changing the human. 09:35 – A common belief about dog dominance is challenged by modern science. 20:34 – Jane Goodall's work transformed how we understand animal emotions and personalities. 31:02 – Hidden medical issues often explain behaviors owners mistake for disobedience. 45:14 – Giving animals more choice can reduce stress and strengthen trust. 58:21 – Remarkable stories show how animals have influenced history in unexpected ways. About the Guest: Hanne Grice is a UK Clinical Animal Behaviourist, Certified Trainer, and award-winning educator who specialises in the science of human–animal relationships. She founded Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour in 2006 and has supported thousands of families across dogs, cats, and small companion animals. Her work centres on evidence informed welfare, behaviour change, and practical strategies that help people and their animals nurture stable, healthy relationships. Alongside clinical practice, Hanne lectures at the postgraduate level in applied animal behaviour, human–animal interactions, and the psychology that shapes how people understand and interact with their pets. She previously served on the Board of the UK's Animal Behaviour and Training Council. When her tenure concluded in July 2025, she was appointed an Honorary Individual Member in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the charity's mission to raise and protect professional standards. Hanne is known for making science accessible. Her “How Does…” series explores everyday behaviour across species, and her “Animals in History” films examine the remarkable roles animals have played across cultures and time. She is the author of Playing with Your Dog (2010), a practical guide to enriching the lives of companion animals through evidence-informed play. Her research includes studies on dog–owner relationships during pregnancy and early parenthood, as well as ongoing work on behaviour change techniques for animal professionals. She continues to develop tools that bring together behavioural science, practical welfare, and effective communication, helping owners and practitioners create environments where animals feel safe, understood, and able to thrive. Ways to connect with Hanne**:** Hanne Grice YouTube: Hanne Grice Pet Training & Behaviour - YouTube Facebook: Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour Instagram: Hanne Grice on Instagram LinkedIn: Hanne Grice | LinkedIn TikTok: Hanne Grice (@hannegrice) | TikTok https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhiktobqDFUSrjuXKBQUW_xyz&si=T9593esdANzVVYoM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhik4U80OJWUMHd5JwbDNZbwd&si=atOLyb_foY_7AVjs   https://learn.hannegrice.com/ https://shophannegrice.com/ https://amzn.to/4pxuzfv  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am Mike Hingson, or you can call me Michael Hingson, just to make sure you get the Hingson part right. I am the host of Unstoppable Mindset, and today we get to chat with Hanne Grice from over in the well, across the pond, shall we say. So it's later in the evening there, and she was just telling me that her children celebrate Christmas tomorrow because they also have another Christmas to celebrate on Thursday, so I might be jealous. It is being recorded by the way two days before Christmas in 2025 and we're looking forward to it. Hannah is an animal behavior, she's an expert in all of that. She's done a program called How Does, which I'm interested to learn more about. She is also founded other organizations dealing with training, I think, probably more humans than pets, but all about pet training and developing relationships. Just before we came on, we were talking about a couple of our kiddies, and I should tell you, Hanne, I had a guide dog, my second guide dog, Holland, who was a golden retriever, lived 15 years, so he lived a long time, and was actually three weeks from retirement when he collapsed, and I think had a stroke and a heart attack, and the vet said we could bring him back, but he wouldn't have a good quality of life, so, but we were only without a guide dog for three weeks, but anyway, with all that aside, Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Hanne Grice  02:34 Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor, and I'm sorry to hear about Holland. So, thank you for sharing that. Michael Hingson  02:42 Well, here's a wonderful puppy dog, and now we have Alamo, who will be 10 years old on the 14th of May, and he will have been a guide dog for me for eight years on the 24th of February, and that's especially interesting because the 24th of February is my birthday, so I regard Alamo as a wonderful birthday present, which is kind of cool. Speaker 1  03:17 That is cool. And how long, Michael, would you typically have a guide dog for when do they typically retire. Michael Hingson  03:24 Typically it's an average thing. It really is all a question of how the guide dog is doing, and so on, because it's a very stressful job, but it's also up to me to keep the stress as low as possible. But typically it's, it's six to eight years, and I expect Alamo to work and be around for quite a while, yet he's just doing really well and isn't showing much age, and I'm happy with that. And then Stitch is going to be 16 in January, so we guess we rescued her back in 2015 and and so she's she's been around, and the two get along pretty well together. They don't chase each other or anything like that, but, but they do communicate, and they talk, and they touch noses, and all that. And every so often, Stitch steals Alamos bed, and poor Alamo doesn't know what to do about it, because Stitch has claws, and he knows it. So he just goes and finds another place to collapse until she leaves. Speaker 1  04:20 Yeah, cats and dogs, they find a way, but two of the species that I work very closely with, so yeah, and a testament to the quality and type of relationship that you have with them, that they're aging so well. So that's great to hear. Michael Hingson  04:36 One of the things that I insist on when I'm having to get a new guide dog, which I don't anticipate doing for a long time yet, but one of the things that I insist is that any guide dog I get has to have been raised around cats and get along with cats. I've seen a couple of guide dogs that are cat haters, and I would never want that kind of thing, especially when it's such an. Easy distraction when that happens. Speaker 1  05:02 Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine what it'd be like if suddenly you're finding yourself careering down the street, right? My dog was chasing the neighbor's cat, not good, not good for any of the animals or human involved. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  05:15 my fourth guide dog, Lynn, loved to chase rabbits, now not out of any kind of meanness or anything like that. She just wanted friends, and she loved to visit my first guide dog, Squire, when we were in Boy Scouts, and went to a camp one on a camping trip one weekend. Actually, caught a road runner, and we discovered that the road runner had a broken leg, but we fixed it, and the road runner took off, but again he just wanted to talk. He never hated any animal, and you know, none of my guide dogs have ever done anything, except they've never known a stranger. Everyone is a friend to them, people in and animals, which is great, Speaker 1  05:58 and that's what I love about my job, Michael, because I am, and you said at the start I'm working with animals, but predominantly it's the humans that engage my services, it's the humans that are looking for help and support with their animals, and so when any of my students or young and aspiring clinical behaviorists or trainers say to me, "Oh, I want to do this job because I love animals. I don't like people. I always say, well, you're going to be in the wrong job. You have to like humans as well, because they're the ones that really you're working with to help change their animals' behavior, and they pay the bills. Michael Hingson  06:36 Well, since you do work a lot with training animals and so on. Have you had any success at training politicians? I mean, there's an animal for you. Speaker 1  06:44 I have had all sorts of clients on my books, from the rich and famous to sportsmen and politicians, so I can't disclose names. However, what I will say is I have successfully used my effective consulting skills on humans to reframe, because actually, if we think about when they engage my services, usually it's because there's a fractured pet owner relationship. For example, you might have a dog that's lunging at other dogs, or you know, the cat that's attacking another cat in the household, and by the time they come to me, they're really frustrated. They're labeling their animals as naughty, and actually, my role is to take an investigative approach, look at all the evidence, and help the clients understand, you know, why the animals are doing what they're doing, what's the function, and usually we start to see that human mindset shift when they have that understanding, and that's incredibly powerful, because you know once we get that human understanding, the behavior change in animals then follows, so it really does begin with the insight in the humans. Michael Hingson  08:04 Really good point. I've seen a lot of people interacting with guide dogs, and some of them get very nervous, especially when they get lost or something isn't going exactly the way they want. When the reality is that nervousness translates to the dog, and the fact is that the dog gets stressed out because their person is stressed out, and I think there's a lot of truth to what the dog whisperer, Caesar Milano, says, is that it's that the dogs are looking for a pack leader, they want the humans to do it, but when some of these people get so nervous, they stress out the dogs, and that has a significant effect on the lifespan. A guiding is is very stressful, and the dogs take it very seriously and want to do a good job, and they want to know that they're doing a good job, and if you get stressed, Michael Hingson  08:59 it's a problem. Speaker 1  09:00 Absolutely, what I would say is it's more scientific in the sense that when we look at the evidence out there in terms of how our animals influence us and vice versa, it tends to be much more subtle. Michael Hingson  09:18 Yeah, Speaker 1  09:19 for example, animals do act as a stress buffering mechanism, for example, if we're feeling worried about something or unsettled, if we see our dog lying, you know, calmly by our feet, we're going to pick up on those cues, and that will help us settle, and there's a good amount of evidence, as you'll be aware, Michael, of, you know, how animals can lower our heart rates, our breathing rates, they can reduce our stress hormone levels, but what's interesting is that doesn't happen in isolation, and over time humans and their animals do fall into these shared rhythms, like you're talking about. So essentially, we are synchronizing things like our routine, our movement. Our emotional states, and so that synchrony does work both ways, and when to your point, as our stress levels rise or our routines become unstable, absolutely our animals will often reflect that, and it's not about leadership at all, it's actually about emotional, our emotional regulation, or inability to regulate that, exactly Michael Hingson  10:23 right, Speaker 1  10:24 or have stable routines, and you know, certainly we saw the impact animals had for us during the pandemic, you know, lots of people lost that social contact, they lost their structure, and so their animals became anchors for routine and emotional stability, so this also helps explain why researchers, as well as our lived experiences, show that attachment to our pets can rival or even exceed some of those that we form with people, and that also explains why when we look at grief, when we lose a pet, and you talked about your gorgeous Holland, and you know your previous guide dogs, you know that that loss of a pet can be as intense as you know when we lose a close friend and a partner. So, back to what you were saying, yes, there's lots of evidence to show heart variability synchronizes, you know, cortisol blood cortisol levels will synchronize, you know, but it's, it's more than sort of some of the popular culture would have us believe in terms of alpha and leader, and I think if there's one thing I could burst a bubble on, it would be around that notion about that the dog is trying to dominate us or take control, and the reason being is because it all comes down to some outdated and flawed research from the 1940s that was then attempted to replicate in the 70s, and as I said, the research design was deeply flawed. It was mixing captive balls from different groups together, so, of course, there's going to be fighting, and so I guess for anyone listening, I would like them to just be really aware that dominance isn't a personality trait, it simply describes a relationship between individuals in a specific context, so when your dog is sat next to you at home, they're not plotting to take over the household, they're not like, you know, Dr. Evil in Austin Powers, they're not trying to take over the world, they're when we see the behaviors like the chasing after the road runner, or the lead pulling after the neighbor's cat, or the growling when they're being touched for grooming, or when they're guarding objects, those behaviors are usually linked to fear or frustration, learning history, even pain, and so when we look through things with a dominance lens, that alpha lens, it attempts to explain animal behavior without actually helping the animal. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, so when we fish shift, I should say our focus to understanding what's actually driving that behavior, how is that environment, or how's the handling from that individual contributing or compounding the issues that people are coming to me to get help with? You know, what does the animal need to learn instead? Then we get actually better welfare outcomes and much more reliable behavior change done in a science-led, ethical, humane way. Michael Hingson  13:45 Well, I was talking about Squire chasing the Roadrunner. It is my, and it's always been my opinion that Squire was the first one to see that that that bird was injured, and I am absolutely certain that he would never have been able to catch the road runner if that road runner had been able to go at full speed, but the, but the bird had a broken leg, and we fixed it, you know, we taped it, we split it, and then the bird ran away, and Squire didn't, didn't follow it, but I think that there was a sense, and I'm still convinced to this day that that was the case, and I don't want my dogs to be afraid. My previous guide dog to Alamo, actually not even Africa, but going back to Roselle, who was with me in the World Trade Center, Roselle was afraid of thunder. Now she didn't start out being afraid of thunder, but we really didn't know how to deal with it, probably correctly, and she developed this phobia, so that she could even sense when a storm was coming before it got to us, and we worked to calm her down as much as we could, but she was our early warning system for. Storms, and you know, but that was also one of the reasons that I knew on september 11 that we were going, you know, that we didn't have to just rush out of the office like crazy people, because she wasn't reacting after the building was struck, she wasn't reacting with any kind of fear evidence at Speaker 2  15:24 all. Michael Hingson  15:24 Mostly she was yawning and going, "Who woke me up? You know, and, and the bottom line is that she didn't sense anything, and I wasn't smelling any smoke, and I knew that whatever was going on wasn't such an imminent emergency that we couldn't try to evacuate in an orderly way, and, and that's what happened, but I, you know, I have a question for you. How did all this start for you? So, tell us a little bit about the early Hanne growing up, and how did you get into the whole idea of dealing with animals and starting this whole process? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, partly stories like yours, fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Um, so as a child I, there's a big age gap between my brother and my sister and I. So I was the youngest, and I was always fascinated with human animal interactions anyway, but because I think my siblings, where they were so much older, my animals were really my constant companions, and so that's where the deep love of a range of species started, and I was very lucky in that I think because there was such an age gap and my brother and sister weren't around, my parents were sort of, yeah, you can have another rabbit, you can have a stick insect, and it was kind of just keep it quiet, and then I'd be busy with my animals, and then as I sort of grew up, became more aware, as you do, into your sort of preteens and then teens, was really interested in watching how people behaved around their pets, which comes back to some of the stuff you were saying earlier, doesn't it, and I became really curious as to why someone could describe themselves as an animal lover, yet use methods or make choices that clearly compromised the animal's welfare, so that really fascinated me, and I can't pinpoint it to a single defining moment, but certainly I wasn't fortunate to, unlike my students nowadays, because I also lecture, they can do what I do as a degree. When I was growing up, it was vet or very nursing, so it took a while before I could viably get onto the degrees and masters to specialize, but I think for me what continues to motivate, and I'll be 20 years in practice in 2026 is the, the impact, positive impact my role can have on the human animal relationship, in the sense that you know they can, they can come to me, and they're at the brink of despair, the clients, because they've maybe looked at the internet, they've asked well-meaning friends, they may have gone to other professionals, and nothing seems to be working. And actually, you know, it takes further exploration. I can detect stuff that might not be picked up before, because I'm taking like a detective approach, looking at medical history, looking at the owner reporting, asking questions, observing the animal, and all of that information can then lead me to determine, okay, what's going on, and how we approach it, and so when done robustly and systematically that shift in the relationship starts to improve, because they better understand one another, and when an animal starts to go, "Hey, you're listening to me, you're getting what I mean when I kind of do x, y, or z in terms of behavior. That's when the shift happens, and for me, the magic and what really motivates me doing this job day in day out is improving the human animal relationship. Michael Hingson  19:06 Was there any defining moment that caused you to say, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life, or was it just sort of a gradual thing? Speaker 1  19:17 Oh golly, I mean that for me it's it's a bit like, you know, if you ask something, somebody like an artist to do a painting, at the end of it, there's the finished picture, and for me, I liken it, it's like lots of little building blocks to get to that end picture. For me, the magic really is, is seeing a fractured relationship repair and be better than it was, and so there's been many, many moments over 20 years in my career where that's happened, and those glimmers, as I call them, of what I celebrate, and it's very easy for us all, isn't it, to have those negative ninny moments, those imposter sounds. Syndrome moments, and I hold on to all the reviews, or the little texts that I get when my clients go, "Hey, I walked past another dog, and my dog kept his call, you know, yay, you know, they're the things that drive me and motivate me to keep going, because some of the cases I work with are really heavy, you know, take quite a lot of emotional toll, and I guess that's the stuff that you know the every person doesn't see with clinical behaviorists, is that we do lay in bed at night worrying about other people and their animals. Michael Hingson  20:30 Yeah, I know what you're saying. Coincidentally, just this morning I was reading an article about people we lost in 2025 and of course, one of the people mentioned one of the trailblazers, as the New York Times put it, was Jane Goodall. Have did you ever meet her? Have you had any interactions with her? Because one of the things that they talked about was that she took a completely different approach to interacting with chimpanzees and truly developed a personal relationship. She named them, and she became accepted by them. That really was.. I don't want to say amazing, because I don't think that kind of thing is amazing, but that really just told me how much she obviously understood. Did you ever meet her, or get to deal with her at all? Speaker 1  21:20 I really wish that would have been amazing. Jane Goodall is one of the most inspiring people, you know, in my opinion, and I'm really glad you mentioned her, Michael, because she, her work really paved the way for us to understand back in the 70s, really, that animals have personalities. Michael Hingson  21:45 Yeah, Speaker 1  21:46 because it was, it was months and years of taking things really slowly, being really unintrusive, observing. It took many years for her to be accepted around the truth, because they can be really dangerous animals, and so, and that was a really good example, you know. I was saying earlier about taking things slowly and systematically, and she recognized that chimpanzees were individuals, they had different emotions, just like us, they had different personality types that didn't really change as they grew, and it was through her work, particularly with one called David Graybeard, that led to her sort of gaining more public awareness, and she had her critics, you know, at the time they thought she, oh Michael Hingson  22:35 sure, Speaker 1  22:36 she was a bit like Diane Posse, they thought she was some sort of crazy lady who was terribly anthropomorphic, and that wasn't the case at all. No, so you know it's it's real leaders in, in the field, like Jane Goodall and the Diane Fosses, that that has paved the way for the likes of me to then go, yes, our animals have emotions. It wasn't, you know, Darwin led the way in the 1800s with the first idea of this, but you know it's not that long ago that really we thought animals were just unthinking, you know, blobs that you know were incapable of feeling pain, and sadly even today in social media we see some awful advice given out to cat or dog owners about how you deal with problems in order to have a quick fix, you know, and that's not the case at all. So, yeah, I'm really happy you brought her up, because, yeah, amazing lady. Michael Hingson  23:35 Well, I don't remember exactly when it occurred, it was sometime when I was 10 or 11, sometime in the very early 60s. She came and lectured in the area where I grew up, in the Antelope Valley, and my parents and I did go to see her. I don't remember anything about the lecture, but it was.. I know it was.. it was interesting, and I wish I could remember more of it, but that was the only time that we were ever close to her, but it was, it was fascinating, and of course, knowing about her life and the things that she did, I absolutely understand and agree with you. When I worked, which I did for Guide Dogs for the Blind for six and a half years, we lived in Northern California, about seven miles from Guide Dogs for the Blind, and literally just down the street from the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous and well-known organizations of its type in the United States, and talking to some of their people, they, they said, How so often it's not really training the animals that is what we're dealing with here, it's training the humans, and it is because it's the humans that really need to get a clue and understand that these animals have as much of a personality and as much knowledge to share. As we do, and are born with more instincts, and we could learn to listen to our own instincts, if we would observe these dogs a whole lot more, and these animals a whole lot more than we do. Now, I don't know about cats, but you know that's another story. Speaker 1  25:13 Yeah, yeah, we often like to label. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's super cool that you got to see her in the 60s, even if you can't remember what she said, that's really impressive. I remember Michael Hingson  25:28 doing it, but that was about that's about it, actually. Speaker 2  25:32 Yeah, wow, that's Michael Hingson  25:33 kind of fun. Yeah, if Speaker 3  25:38 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community, Michael Hingson  26:11 but you know the fact is that animals really can contribute a whole lot more to our lives than we think, and we just need to be the ones to take the initiative and develop the relationships. I talk to people all the time about dogs, and I say that dogs, and I firmly believe, do love unconditionally, unless there's some horrible thing that happened to them that that affects their, their views, but dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference, though, between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust, and they want to develop that trusting relationship. And if we would learn to do that as well, it would be such a wonderful thing. Now it can be that you will like with human to human trust, you might find that somebody doesn't earn your trust. That's okay. Then you move on, but we need to learn to be more open to trust than we than we tend to be. Speaker 1  27:14 Yeah, absolutely. Really well said. And you know, in terms of how do we develop secure, healthy bonds between us and our animals. It's built on several things, and that includes predictability, responsiveness, and emotional safety. That's your trust bed, isn't it? And so one of the clearest findings that we have from attachment research is that animals cope better when they can predict how their humans going to respond. Michael Hingson  27:46 Yes, Speaker 1  27:47 and when their attempts at communication are noticed and make sense to the animals. So, for example, in everyday life, you know, this might look like your dog pausing or turning their head when we're reaching out to stroke them, or it might be the cat choosing to leave a stroke as you're attempting to reach out to their cheek, and how we recognize this as the human would be to go, "Oh, okay, I'm going to ease off, because clearly you know you're turning your head, you're lip licking, that's telling me you'd rather I stop trying to reach out to pet your head or the cat walking way, I'm going to allow you to do that pussy cat rather than follow you and try and pick you up and give you a cuddle. So when handlers respond in those ways to their animals responses, the animals learn very quickly, hey, my communication works, and then that understanding strengthens the animal owner relationship, and another thing that plays into that, which is what I'm always talking to clients about, is processing time plays an important role in building healthy, secure relations, because often animals need much longer to take in information or decide how to respond, particularly if they're feeling emotionally aroused, unsafe, or trying to learn something new. And when we rush them, and a real good example of this is some my clients will ask the dog to sit, and if the dog doesn't do it within a split second, they're going sit, sit, they're repeating the cue over and over again, and that unintentionally puts pressure rather than giving clarity to the dog, and it can then often lead to confusion and even frustration, and that's going to show up behaviorally, so for example, we may end up with the dog, then jumping up at the owner or grabbing the lead and ragging it. So, I always say, look, if we slow down, if we allow space for the animal to process what we're asking them to do, if we respond calmly and consistently to their subtle cues that they communicate through body language. And so on, animals begin to expect safety rather than threat from us, and that expectation therefore reduces things like stress. It supports learning, it makes behavior much more resilient, because the relationship itself is secure, and these are the same principles that sit at the heart of child-parent attachment, where there's predictability, there's responsive caregiving, and that helps the child feel safe enough to explore and learn. Michael Hingson  30:32 It's also just as relevant for any kind of teaming relationship, even within companies, and the true leaders of companies who catch on to these kinds of things and learn how to communicate and process to determine whether somebody is truly understanding what they're communicating or not is an extremely important thing, because the fact of the matter is none of this is overly magical, whether it is between human and animal or human and human, but we do need to recognize the values and what it really is is meaning when, for example, we don't react to someone not doing instantly what we say, which isn't the way to do it. Speaker 1  31:17 Absolutely, yeah, really good example using principles that we see in leadership, HR, you know, and that's why when they're recruiting, they spend so much time typically looking at personality types, how that's going to match with the team, you know, so yeah, really good point there, Michael, about leadership and the importance of that people centric approach, which I think, with you know, sadly, you know, not to go too political, we're seeing real crazy times Speaker 2  31:47 at the moment, Speaker 1  31:48 and a lack of true leadership with that empathetic, human-centric approach, whatever side of the political spectrum you sit on. Michael Hingson  31:57 Yeah, and it is, it's all over. I hope something will come and break that pattern and get people to recognize what really should work and what really does work well in your case, even when you walk into a home, what is it that you observe, or how do you determine how an animal feels for the first time when you come in and see them before you really even get a chance to talk with their people. Speaker 1  32:25 Yeah, that's a good question. Animals, you were talking about Brazil and thunder, and she pick up on, you know, atmospheric changes. We know that biometric changes are picked off on by many, many non-human animals, so because they communicate using a combination of sensory information, be it sense, sound, visual signaling. I can walk into a client's house and immediately pick up on something. So, I'll give you some real examples. I recently had a case with Dusty Gorgeous Cocker Spaniel, and I was called in because she had developed severe resource guarding, so she'd get really growly and snappy, and sometimes bite the owner when she'd taken something of theirs, and they were trying to take it off them. As soon as I walked into Dusty's home, I could smell her, I could smell her ears, and that led me to suspect straight away there's some sort of likely infection going on here, and so working collaboratively with the vet, as clinical animal behaviorists do, that was confirmed, and the level of pain she'd been experiencing turned out to be a significant, significant contributory factor in her case for guarding, because guarding of the items provided some form of emotional regulation, whereas you know from an outsider's perspective she might have just been labeled naughty and disobedient, which isn't the case at all. Another example is I'm always watching how an animal moves, or how the owner interacts with them. How the animal, therefore, responds in return. And I touched on, you know, predictability a moment ago. And many stress signs that our animals will give us are really subtle and often misinterpreted. So let's take zoomies, you know, when the dog goes crazy around the lounge, and they may be jumping all over the sofas, etc. or humping the visitor, you know, the leg when the person comes in. Frequently, that's labeled as over excitement, or even dominance. When in reality, these are really often indicators of stress or discomfort, and small details also matter, so for example, the holding of breath or an increased blink rate, turning away from an outstretched hand. You know, these are really kind of brief moments that can be missed, and yet they tell us a huge amount of information. About how that animal was feeling about that interaction at that moment in time, and more recently I had a couple of cats, different cat cases, but urinating around the home, you know, up toasters on beds and sofas and things like that, and when, because I work with clients all around the world, as well as the UK, I can't always physically be there in person, so I'm reviewing the footage, and they managed to capture video of the cats moving around their environment, and then also urinating in their litter tray, and straight away I could spot the position of the whiskers, the eye shape, the ear position, the tension in the muzzle, the posture, and when they're moving around, and these were consistently scoring high on something called the cat groom miss scale, and that's a validated pain assessment Michael Hingson  35:54 tool. Speaker 1  35:54 So all of that information provided further investigation for the bet, and again, medical conditions are identified, and clearly you've got learning occurring anyway. So, there's always the behavior modification side, but these are just with dusty in the cat examples showing how there's often some other stuff like medical bits and bobs that are compounding the issues as well. Often I might be in a situation where you know the dog is belching or they're gnawing at their paws or their franks. Now that in itself can indicate perhaps gustatory issues or skin problems, but also context is critical because that's if that's happening when I'm there it could also be a stress sign, yeah, because an unfamiliar person, me, is present, so I'm looking at patterns, and does that happen when visitors aren't there, and and so on, and so on. So I come back to what I said earlier, really, it's like a detective, you're looking at all the evidence and piecing that together, and that then helps us understand what function is that undesirable behavior serving, whether that's the cat, you know, urinating against the toaster, or the rabbit scratching or biting the human. Michael Hingson  37:14 Well, so I've mentioned Roselle, one of the things that I was told when I first met Roselle, was she likes to steal socks, and, and I found that to be true. She loved to steal them and hide them, and that was it. She never chewed them up, but it, it really was a game, and we, we found socks in very strange places, and she actually, a couple times, stole my wife's slippers, but again, she stole them, and she hid them, and it was, she, she was very proud of herself. She thought it was a fun game, and you know, we never reacted negatively to it, because clearly it wasn't a bad thing. She didn't ever chew them up, so we knew it wasn't a bad thing, and we just accepted it as a game. Speaker 1  38:06 Yeah, yeah, and you know, partly if you think about, you know, her breed and species, partly that could be cashing, you know, partly it's fulfilling an entertainment function, as you said, a game, so yeah, and that will come down to her learning history before she came to you, and so on. So, yeah, really lovely example. She sounds like a complete poppet. Oh, Michael Hingson  38:28 I've always described her as a pixie by any standard, but, but yeah, she was, she was a wonderful dog, and the bottom line was it was also how we reacted to her, because if we had started to react in a negative way, that would have introduced stress, and that wouldn't have been a good thing either. Speaker 1  38:50 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, your story is is remarkable, and you talked about her and fireworks, yet she was so steady on that day, so I wonder, yeah, and I was just wondering, Michael, if, if I can ask you, you know, what do you think helped Friselle remain so steady in those conditions where many humans were being overwhelmed, understandably, on that day in 911 Michael Hingson  39:19 Well, I, I'm sure this won't totally surprise you, but I spent a lot of time before september 11 learning all I could about the World Trade Center, including what to do in the case of an emergency, and so I think that probably the most significant thing was probably Roselle was was looking at me and how I reacted and recognizing the fact that we do work and did work well as a team, so I wasn't panicking, and that helped her focus as well. Speaker 1  39:55 Yeah, and you know that's a really good example where you talked about. Up getting to know the environment, and kind of practicing, you know, going through those drills of what to do in an emergency, because I'm always saying to clients, repetition, consistency is the mother of success, you know. So, my goodness, did that pay off dividends, and you keeping your cool head, and both of you helping each other, amazing. Michael Hingson  40:21 Yeah, you've spent a lot of time studying kind of the transitions that that people go through, parenthood, children, pregnancy, and so on. How do dogs react to that? What are.. what are you.. what do you observe, or.. and what would you advise about that? Speaker 1  40:41 It's really interesting, Michael, because actually there's very little research out there in terms of what happens when a new baby arrives, you know, what happens to the family dog, and that's why I've explored it, and what stood out with my research, which looked at expectant parents and the other group with the postpartum parents, is that once baby arrives, and this won't be a surprise to anyone with children, but you know parents are spending understandably all their time focused on the baby, so what immediately happens is there's less time interacting with dogs, and so the biggest drop tends to be in the quality and type of interactions that are occurring, for example, walking durations, walking frequency, and also play, and the ones that stay in terms of the interactions that remain the same are the low effort ones, the quick ones, which is like stroking the dog or giving them a treat, and also my research found that many parents describe having huge levels of guilt once the baby arrived, because you know they are aware that now their dog, which may have been their fur baby, you know, the kind of surrogate child before the real one arrived, now was sort of come down a peg or two, and also what came out of my research is there's often because new parents are knackered, let's be honest, broken sleep is that they can easily become frustrated and sometimes the dog becomes the one that the frustration is directed at, and then layered on to that, we also have physiological stress synchrony. We were talking about synchrony between ourselves and our dogs, and an example is that research has found that when a baby cries, our blood cortisol level rises in the parents, but it also rises in the family dogs. Blood cortisol levels also rise. So, what that shows is, oh my goodness, you know, there's a significant impact on the new baby that has on the dog's day-to-day life, and it might not be obvious, because the dog may just kind of plod to the bed and rest, but there's all this other stuff going on that might not be obvious. So, the key takeaway from my research is that, you know, if you're having a baby and you have a dog, you know absolutely baby prep your dog for that change that's going to come, you know, especially if your dog has any problem behaviors, you know, be it pulling on the lead, they don't like visitors, you know, build support systems, so in less qualified humane, ethical trainers and behaviorists, dog walkers, so we've got some sort of routine, or in less family support or friends to help out, so there's some predictability, there's some quality one to one time for the dog once baby comes, and all of that, along with really good management of the home environment through dog ate safe zones, etc. for the dog and the baby, that's going to protect the pet's welfare, but it's also going to reduce the risk of behavior problems escalating. Michael Hingson  44:05 The other kind of thing that I can imagine will happen, hopefully more than not, is that the dog will bond or work to develop a bond with the new baby in the family. Speaker 1  44:18 Absolutely, and that's one of the most important things about baby prepping is that if we create some sort of understanding. Okay, I'm being exposed, let's say gently to baby sounds whilst I'm licking on this long-lasting chew, and this is quite nice, hearing this baby cry, you know. This recording, or I have, I joke, I have like a lending library with fake babies, you know, and my clients may think I'm mad to start, and very quickly they're realizing actually it's really good to train my dog to go and station on their mat while I'm carrying a baby or pretending to change the nappy on this fake baby, and the dog's learning I can, I can go to my mat and sit and settle while you know my own is doing this. Yes, and you know, so if we create that sort of learning, it's, it's not then such a shock to the dog, and I even get my clients practicing walking with a pram and the dog, because the dog's got to learn to walk nicely with the pram, you know, and inevitably, you know, the owners are accidentally running over the dog's paws to start, or just simple things, like, oh my gosh, I hadn't even thought about how do I get out the house with the baby, the dog, and the pram. So, sometimes just, just practicing, like you said, about getting to know the environment at the Twin Towers, it's really important to practice these things for real world, Michael Hingson  45:36 and the reality is, even a dog with a big long tongue isn't going to drown a baby, Speaker 1  45:42 of course. You know, and we know, and we absolutely know that those little ones that grow up with animals, particularly dogs, have really strong guts, micro, you know, flora, and so it's, it's helpful, you know, if they're sort of around the animals. So clearly we just got to be sensible in terms of managing the interactions, but absolutely I'm a huge fan of nurturing those dog baby buns, and do you know what one of the best things is when the baby throws some of that food onto the floor from the highchair when they're weeding, that's that's a sure far way for that dog to learn to love that baby, Michael Hingson  46:20 yeah, you know, there's nothing wrong with a little bribe every so often. Speaker 1  46:24 Pennies from heaven, I call it. Michael Hingson  46:27 That's right. What is the one behavior that you wish that people would just get rid of and not not have anymore? Speaker 1  46:37 Well, I talked about earlier in terms of myth busting and the busting, the myth about our dogs wanting to take over the world, and us needing to be sort of leaders, and that's not the case at all. I think, for me, it's the importance about agency and understanding what do we, what do we mean by giving our animals agency, so for example, you know, if our animal has some sort of influence over what happens to them, rather than just being passive receivers of what we're telling them what to do, if we give them choice, behavioral science and lived experience shows that absolutely that reduces uncertainty, and we know that uncertainty is a major driver of stress, so if we look at zoological settings, there's a Copenhagen Zoo, for example, give their guinea pigs choice whether to be petted or not, and how they do that is they bring out a carrier and the guinea pigs know that if they hop in the carrot carrier, it means they're going to go and see the kids, sit on the kids' laps, and they'll be petted, and so you'll have guinea pigs that rush into the carrier, and then you've got other guinea pigs who go, "Heck, not today, and those ones that choose not to go in the carrier are simply not handled, and then I've got peers of mine who work with dolphins, and they will show the dolphin picture of two of the trainers, and they'll let the dolphin decide who do they want to work with in that session. So that's an example of giving a dog adult dolphin and guinea pigs agency. Another one is in the states, so in the Smithsonian National Zoo and Toledo Zoo, they've specifically designed exhibits where orangutans can, by choice, spray the visitors with water. So, basically, the orangutans push a button, and that button causes a shower to go all over the visitors on the other side of the enclosure, so that acts as a form of enrichment, and it also provides a really neat way for the visitors to feel like they're directly connecting with the animals, so in all of those examples stress-related behaviors actually drop because the animals have choice, and so if we apply that principle to our pets at home, you know, agency would look like allowing the family dog to choose which way to walk occasionally, or allowing them the time to stop and sniff, or offering choice between resting places, or letting our cat decide when they want the interaction to end, or I don't know, offering up a choice of different toys or different food stuffs, and seeing which way does your pet go, you know, what do they find motivating, which toy or which food stuff in that moment in time do they want, so these small choices tell animals that they have some sort of control over their environment, and so why that's so important, and why I'd love everyone to be aware of that, is behaviorally this really matters, because when animals are feeling sort of overridden or trapped, Michael Hingson  49:59 yeah. Speaker 1  50:00 They're much more likely to rely on coping strategies that include avoidance or shutdown or even escalating behaviors like grounding and biting, and conversely, when they experience agency, their learning improves, their emotional regulation becomes easier, and their behavior becomes more stable, so agency isn't about letting our animals run the household. It means it means we as humans are deliberately designing interactions so that the animals feel safe and they have appropriate choices, and that balance supports welfare and leads to much more reliable behavior change over time. Michael Hingson  50:43 I think that all too often we are the greatest contributors to stress in our pets' environments, like dogs, and so on. And I know one of the things that is emphasized when we get new guide dogs is guiding itself is extremely stressful. The dogs have been brought up to respect the job, to like to do the job, and they're absolutely committed to doing it as well as they can. Now, to keep that attitude up is our job, and one of the things that I've learned over the years, you know, people will come up, "Well, I want to pet your dog, and my response is, "No, don't pet the dog. Now, if there's time, however, I will stop, and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog, because the harness is the indicator that the dog is working, but dogs need to relax too, and so I know Alamo, especially, just loves it when the harness comes off, and he'd love to cheat more and visit with people, even when the harness is on, but he does understand the difference, and so I do work to try to make sure that when people want to pet the dog, if I have any time at all, I will stop and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog. You need to understand why we're doing this, and that gives me the opportunity to explain it. Now, the only difference, the only time that's there's an exception to that, is if a child comes up and wants to pet the dog. I will always stop and take the harness off, because it doesn't matter. I want kids to grow up being comfortable around these dogs, and sometimes the parents will go, "Oh, that dog might bite, and all that, and I'll say, "No, the dog won't, and I'll always take the harness off for children. I may not always have the time to do it for adults, but I'll take the time for kids, because I want them to really understand that these dogs are not mean, and that they have a job to do, and so it gives me the opportunity to talk about that. Speaker 1  52:52 Yeah, that's great that you are promoting those fantastic child dog interactions, and you know what you're talking about is exactly what we've been discussing, in terms of that predictability, that consistency. You know, when the harness is off, you know that that gives the dog a clear signal. So, that's fantastic. Michael Hingson  53:13 Yeah, that's also part of it, that they know that when the harness is on, time to work, at least you're supposed to be serious anyway, no. Now, what? What's one thing that you wish dog owners would understand about cats and small animals that they tend not to pay attention to? Speaker 1  53:31 Yeah, you made me smile earlier, Michael, when you mentioned cats, because I was thinking about this. So, I guess you know, often cats and small animals are characterized as independent or aloof. Yeah, when in fact their communication styles are just maybe less obvious than the dog that's wackling the body, and you know, the tail, etc. And you know, looking really happy when the owner returns home, whereas the cat may sort of slink past, and we think, oh, okay, they're not that fast, but you know, their behavior is shaped by very different evolutionary pressures, and that's particularly around safety and conflict avoidance. So, when cats, for example, you know, act aloof or appear distant, it's much more about de-escalation, so research into feline social behavior shows that cats rely heavily on subtle signals like slow being blinking or head turns or ear position, choosing elevated resting spots to manage sort of social distance and reduce tension, and those behaviors are affiliative or calming, yet they're often missed by our ourselves or misinterpreted, and again, what seems like they're independent or aloof or distant is in reality them simply working hard to regulate proximity in ways that feel safe to them and. So you know, never feel offended if your cat moves away from you in the sofa to perch on a higher spot, because they're just managing their own comfort and control, and similarly, with rabbits or guinea pigs, they're a prey species, so their behavior is organized again differently, and they're neurologically wired to prioritize things like visibility or escape routes or control of space, so research consistently shows that when prey animals feel exposed or they're unable to run away, obviously stress responses are going to escalate quickly, and what people will therefore label as a rabbit, skittish, for example, is in fact a really logical response to feeling unsafe. Michael Hingson  55:47 Yeah, Speaker 1  55:47 so when we, when we stop looking at behavior through our human lens, which is what Jane Goodall and others have, you know, tried to help people understand, when we stop looking at it through human lens and consider what safety looks like for the animal. You know, welfare improves, owner animal relationships tend to strengthen. Michael Hingson  56:10 I don't know how Stitch figures out how to deal with a blind person, because all that link, blinking, and all that goes way over my head, of course. But even so, she's obviously figured it out, because we do have a good relationship, and she, as I've explained earlier, comes and yells at me when she wants to eat, and she'll come up and rub against me, and so on, but I think that overall she's figured out enough that, well, maybe he's a little bit different than some of the people I'm used to, so we figure it out, and we make it work, Speaker 1  56:42 absolutely. And do you know what cats are very clever in that, over the 1000s upon 1000s of years we've been around them, they've developed these unique vocalizations that really, that they don't do to other cats, but they do only to humans, which taps into our sort of caregiving responsibilities to feed them or be attentive, so yeah, brilliant example, when, when she's crying at you to have some sort of interaction or food, Michael Hingson  57:12 yeah. Tell me about your, your program. How does.. Speaker 1  57:17 oh gosh, so basically I'm drawn to sort of questions that people may have the answers to, but can't articulate, or everyday behaviors that we may take for granted. And an example of that might be, you know, why does it take so long for a dog to find the perfect spot to poo? You know, why they twirling around, and that's to do with the Earth's magnetic field. So, the how does series, I deliberately choose questions that sit at the intersection of curiosity and science. Some of the topics are more serious than others, but I do intentionally use some questions or look at some areas that are silly, for example, how does a dog fart, and why does some linger, and that might sound silly, but it's a brilliant entry point into physiology, digestion, dog behavior, and it kind of hooks people in, particularly the younger audiences, as you can imagine, and once they're engaged, then you can start to introduce real, real science without it feeling heavy, and another deciding factor, when I'm looking at subject matters, will be, you know, what's the science behind it? Is there robust research that can explain the science accurately without stripping it of nuance, and then you know, I might look at a different angle, like with my animals and history series, which is another one that I do, where it's still grounded in human animal interactions, but it's about historical moments involving animals, and what do those stories reveal about humans, and how we understood them, how we valued them or misunderstood them, and so on. So those two series, how does is the kind of science behind what animals do, and so on. And the animals in history is still approaching curiosity, but from a different angle. Michael Hingson  59:17 Is there one animal in history that really has changed how you think about animals that you maybe have talked about in your animal history series. Speaker 1  59:26 Gosh, I, at the last look, I think I've done about 67 so far of the animals in history, and there are some that really stick with me, and if I am allowed to have more than one, is that all right, Michael? Michael Hingson  59:43 Oh, sure. Speaker 1  59:44 Okay, so there's ones like Operation Acoustic Kitty, which is completely inhumane and unethical by today's standards, but back during the Cold War, they basically, the US researchers. Tried to create cat spies, and basically fitted them with microphones and listening devices within their bodies, and it was a bit barbaric, to say the least, but that experiment was scrapped. It wasn't very successful in the real world. The cats, when they were experimenting with them out on the street inevitably got run over or distracted. There's other experiments like attaching incendiary devices to bats in an attempt to help with the Second World War effort, which was unsuccessful because the bats didn't always do what the researchers hoped they would do, and then there's Project Pigeon, which is fascinating, and that's where researchers trained pigeons to guide missiles through pecking the screen, and that was scrapped because then Oppenheimer's bomb took over from that project, but you know these are some of the examples about how animals are drawn into human conflict strategy, even technical ambition. And then there's there's fascinating ones like Snowball, who was a Canadian cat, and her DNA was used to solve a crime in a murder case in 19 419 94 and basically it was the first time ever that animal forensics had been used in that way. So fundamentally it changed how we think about animals as part of our human environments, not just emotionally but evidentially, and then there's quirkier stories as well, but you know the stories that stand out include yours, Michael and Roselle. On that day, as I've said to you before, when we first met and chatted, you know that, that to me is just, I mean, it just gets me, your story, so yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:04 So, what's next for you? Speaker 1  1:02:07 Golly, so there's always many plates spinning. Let's say I'm working on putting the Animals in History series into a book, so my plan is to produce a version of the video series into a form that would be of interest to young kids and adults who are interested in in the quirky and the curious, and then always stay curious, I guess. You know, I think curiosity matters. It's what drives my how does series. It's what interests me with the animals in history, and my articles that are right, my podcasts, etc. So, whether we're talking about humans, whether we're talking about non-human animals, it makes far more sense to pause and ask what might that individual individual be experiencing rather than rushing to explain or correct it, and I think if we're patient, if we're responsive, if we allow animals the time and humans that they need to cope in a world that's often crazy, and for animals largely designed by us, I think will be much better advocates for our animals and each other. So, I always think, stay curious. So, that's what I will stay as my mantra going forward. Michael Hingson  1:03:34 And it doesn't get better than that. And I hope that you stay curious. And I think curiosity is such a wonderful thing that that we should do a whole lot more than we do. Well, I want to thank you for being here with us. This has been fun. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour? Oh gosh, I can all hold Speaker 1  1:03:53 on forever. So, oh, I'm not Michael Hingson  1:03:55 complaining, I'm not complaining. We'll have to do this again. Speaker 1  1:03:58 Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Well, Michael Hingson  1:04:00 this has been fun, and I want to thank all of you for watching and listening. Love to hear from you and hear what you think, but Hannah, for you, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Speaker 2  1:04:09 It's just my name, Hanne grice.com is my H A Michael Hingson  1:04:14 N N E, not A, Speaker 1  1:04:16 yeah, Danish way, so H A double N E, G G R I C e.com So I'm on the website. You can just Google my name, follow me on socials. If you have any questions, you have any ideas for the how does, or want me to explore a story for the animals in history, always open to suggestions as well as feedback. Michael Hingson  1:04:36 Cool. Well, and I hope all of you will give us some feedback. I'd love to hear from you, feel free to email me at Michael H I M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Please give us a five star rating wherever you're observing our podcast, but more important than a rating, give us a great review. We love reviews, and people who are interested in listening to the podcast. Just really appreciate people who have already heard the podcast reviewing it, so please give us a review, and whatever you do, if you know anyone who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, including you, Hannah, we'd love introductions to anyone that you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, and with that, again, I want to thank you, Hannah, for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:05:24 Thank you again, and take care, everyone listening. Michael Hingson  1:05:30 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Thank.

What happens when heartbreak becomes the starting point for a whole new purpose? In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with Heather Christie, author, educator, entrepreneur, and founder of Love Notes, a storytelling movement built around real stories of real love. Heather shares how commuting alone to New York City as a teenager shaped her independence, why she walked away from her creative dreams after marrying young, and how writing helped her rediscover herself after the end of a 30-year marriage. We explore storytelling, resilience, creativity, publishing, relationships, and the power of authentic human connection. You will hear how Heather transformed loneliness into hope through Love Notes, an off-Broadway storytelling series that is now expanding across the country and helping people reconnect with the many forms love can take. Highlights: 01:25 - Learn how early independence shaped Heather's confidence and resilience. 16:03 - Discover why staying true to yourself matters in life and relationships. 19:29 - Hear how heartbreak inspired a search for real love stories. 27:21 - Learn how writing helped Heather reconnect with her creativity. 32:35 - Discover the mindset that helped her push through years of rejection. 47:17 - Hear what Heather believes is at the heart of real love. About the Guest: Heather Christie is a speaker, writer-producer, educator, and the creator of LoveNotes! — Real Stories. Real People. Real Love.®—an Off-Broadway storytelling show that's expanding through satellite productions alongside an award-winning anthology. An award-winning YA author, she wrote What The Valley Knows and The Lying Season, which debuted as an Amazon #1 bestseller in Young Adult Soccer Fiction. Her essays have appeared in Salon, NextTribe, Writer's Digest, Baltimore Style, Scary Mommy, Elephant Journal, The Good Men Project, Grown & Flown, Baltimore Child, Parent.co, Her View From Home, the Erma Bombeck Writers' Workshop, and The Lighter Side of Real Estate. Heather holds a BA in Literary Studies from UT-Dallas and an MFA from Pine Manor College. She is CEO of SocRoc Soccer and an adjunct lecturer at the City University of New York. Ways to connect with Heather: Website: www.LoveNotesWorldwide.com & www.HeatherChristieBooks.com Instagram:@_heatherchristie/lovenotes_worldwideFacebook: @heatherchristiebooks / @LoveNotesWorldwideLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-christie-mfa-4b976049/LoveNotes! AnthologyWhat The Valley Knows (book)The Lying Season (book) About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:06 John, thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. Today we get the opportunity and the honor of chatting with Heather Christy, and Heather, Heather is an author. She and her brother have formed a company, so she's clearly an entrepreneur. She's acted, she's a keynote speaker, and I don't know what all we're going to find out in the next hour or so, but definitely an exciting person to get a chance to chat with. So, Heather, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Speaker 1  01:47 Thank you, Michael. I'm so honored that we're going to have a conversation today. Michael Hingson  01:52 And Heather lives in New York City, she lives in Manhattan, or as we all know it, the city. And before we started this, we were talking about the fact that winter is coming everywhere. Ah, well, what do you do as long as you don't get too much snow back there? Speaker 1  02:11 Yeah, the winters have been pretty mild here the last couple years, so see what happens. Michael Hingson  02:16 Yeah, time will tell. Well, why don't we start? Tell us about the early Heather growing up in some of those things. Speaker 1  02:22 Okay, well, as a young person, I, I wanted to be an actress, and I grew up in a really small rural town, about two hours due west of New York City, in Pennsylvania. It's called the Holy Valley. Michael Hingson  02:37 What town? Speaker 1  02:39 Oh, it's called Oli Oley Valley, it's actually a Michael Hingson  02:42 valley. Okay, Speaker 1  02:43 historic site. And so I had a really interesting sort of upbringing, because I, before it was really in vogue, I was on a work-study program, and I would spend half my day in this small Pennsylvania town, and then I would jump on a bus - it was called the Bieber Bus back then - and drive to New York City on the bus, and that was like two to two and a half hours each way, get off in the, you know, huge metropolis of New York City, go on auditions, go sees, or if I had a booking, I'd do the booking, and then I would jump back on the bus and go all the way back to rural Pennsylvania, and that's how I spent like all my high school years was back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and then I actually graduated early. I graduated halfway through my senior year. I had enough of my credits done that I'd actually, the first half of my senior year, I went to community college, and I took a class in the evenings, so I could be done by Christmas break, and the only requirement I still needed to fulfill was my physical fitness, so I ended up moving to New York City, and then I would take my physical fitness classes at Steps Dance Studio, and then I was still able to graduate with my class in June, but I was living in New York City from January on of what would have been senior year. Yeah, so it was like the early me, and the one thing that was sort of interesting when I was on the work study, my mom was a mathematician, and my dad was a an ER doctor, so they actually tutored me. My mom tutored me in math, and my father tutored me in chemistry. And then, like my history teacher back back in the day, we had Walkmans, and he would record his three lessons on a Walkman, and I would listen to them on the bus back and forth from New York. Michael Hingson  04:43 Yep, Lockmans were the big thing back in time. Sony created a very clever thing, but as with everything, the technology has advanced beyond that. Now Speaker 1  04:58 that's right. Yeah, now my kids. Wouldn't even recognize a Walkman, Michael Hingson  05:02 they wouldn't recognize a cassette either. Speaker 1  05:05 That's right, yeah, it would be like an ancient artifact. Michael Hingson  05:08 What's really strange is there are a lot of people who don't even really know anymore what CDs are. Speaker 1  05:14 That's true, yeah. Michael Hingson  05:16 Much less, well, and DVD is sort of going the same way, it hasn't quite got there, but we, we are new now, moving more into streaming and things like that, but, gee, what a crazy world. Well, so you went through high school, basically commuting to New York. What did your parents think of that? Speaker 1  05:35 Well, I was one of four children, I was the oldest child, and what's remarkable is in the beginning, my mother would go with me, but it was hard to do that, and have you know three other children at home, so by the time I was 15 I was doing it on my own, and when I.. it's just like such a different culture that children are raised in now, there's sort of this idea that we, we can't let them kind of do their own thing, you know, like there's, we're so follow every move and thing they do, but that was like a lot of independence my parents granted me at such a young age, and so they thought, I mean, it was great, and they gave me the support I needed, but at the same time they allowed me to be really independent at a pretty young age. I know when I tell people, "Oh, yeah, I moved to New York City when I was 17 by myself, they're like, "And your parents let you do that? And New York, and this was in the late 80s, early 90s, and New York was like a whole different place, like when I get off the bus at Port Authority back then, like now that whole strip Times Square is kind of sanitized and disified, but back then it was, it was a little rough, Michael Hingson  06:56 it was a lot of X-rated things, and all that, I did some commuting more in the early 90s. I sold products, and I would travel back to New York, because that's where I sold to. I traveled from California, and I remember it was there was a lot of stuff on 42nd Street that was very X-rated, and so on, a lot different than the musical 42nd Street, but that's okay. Speaker 1  07:20 That's right, yeah, Michael Hingson  07:21 but it is a lot, a lot cleaner now than it was, and I remember times I would go out of my hotel and there would be people who would say you really shouldn't be walking around on your own, and why not, and they said, well, because it's pretty dangerous here, and you know, the the angels that that were out there insisted on escorting me everywhere I went, just because they were concerned about me, and I wasn't, although I understand the the situation, but I wasn't going to go in the middle of Central Park at night either, so you know, Speaker 1  07:58 right, and I was a lot the same for me. I remember, though, getting.. I would get off the bus at the Port Authority, for people who know you, New York City, it's on Eighth Avenue, and then I would feel like I wasn't like fully safe until I could get to Lord and Taylor, which was on Sixth Avenue. Yeah, and then it felt like everything got a little bit safer and calmer, the energy changed. Michael Hingson  08:23 Yeah, Speaker 1  08:23 that Michael Hingson  08:24 was a lot different. You could always go to St. Patrick's Cathedral for refuge too. So, but yeah, the Port Authority was an interesting place to go, and I understand. Well, how did.. how did all that affect you, and how did, how does what you did back then kind of affect you in the way you think today, especially with children and so on? Would you give them that same level of independence today? Speaker 1  08:52 That's a really interesting question. And my children are a little older than I was at that time now, but I do think about when they were 15, 1616, years old, and if I'm to answer the question really honestly, I don't know that I would have. I just feel like, and I don't know what's changed about society that makes it that way, that and part of it I think is maybe like the news cycle just is constantly highlighting everything that's wrong and fear based that that's what we see and it's in our faces so much more because we have all this access to it through social media that it it creates sort of this, this like undercurrent in parenting that, that we're, that we're oftentimes afraid, like, what could happen to our children. So, I don't know if I actually would have let them commute like that by themselves, you know? Like, yeah, I don't think I would have. Michael Hingson  09:56 Yeah, it's definitely different now than it was then, and. And I think you're right with especially the news cycle and also in reality there's there's so much gun violence and other stuff going on and I ask people when we talk about it I ask is it really that there's more now or it's just more visible in the news, and I'm not sure that it's just visibility. I think there is more stuff going on, and it's not being stopped nearly as effectively or as aggressively as it should be, and it does make it a scarier world. It's tougher, I think, by far to be a kid now than it was when you were a kid, much less I believe when I was growing up. We just didn't see the kinds of things that we see today, and I don't think it's all just exposure from the news. I think there's there's some truth to the fact that that there are other issues going on, Speaker 1  11:00 right, that it actually is a more dangerous world that we live in. Michael Hingson  11:03 Yeah, and I think that it is something that we do have to think about, and hopefully someday sanity will come back to it all. I agree, I'm of the opinion that eventually it will, but you know, so that's cool. But, but still, we have to do what we do, but I also think that we can't stifle our children, we have to give them the opportunity to grow. It may be that you might, when your children were the age you were, you might have decided, well, one of us just has to go with you all the time, and we're going to just to keep an eye on you, or you have other people that help, but I think being so aggressively smothering that you don't let children grow is a problem too. Speaker 1  11:53 Yeah, I agree. I think that's, I mean, there's that saying, and maybe I'll get it right, or maybe I'll get it wrong here, that we need to give our children roots and wings, Michael Hingson  12:02 yeah, Speaker 1  12:02 and that's the challenge, is to find the balance, Michael Hingson  12:06 yeah. Well, and so for you, you were given a lot of independence. How did that shape kind of your attitude, and how does it shape the way you look at life today? Speaker 1  12:20 Well, that's a really great question, and for all the independence that I had as a young person, and maybe, maybe I was given too much independence in some ways, because I, I ended up marrying very young, and and I often wonder, like, had my parents not given me as much independence, if I would have done that, but yeah, I still think I'm very independent now, and I've tried to instill that in my children as well, and I think they're, they're really great kids, and they've launched really well, which I know is a common problem with today's young adults, is the this sort of inability to to launch, and I, I feel really good. My both my kids have done that and done it well. Michael Hingson  13:15 Well, and all you can do is your best, Speaker 1  13:19 right? Michael Hingson  13:20 I think we don't do this nearly as much as we should, but it ultimately comes down to, you know, kids want all sorts of independence, and so on. Parents are, are.. I'm talking about parents who really think about what they do, they may not want children to have that much independence, but I think the key is that you really need to communicate with your kids and teach them what's going on and why, Speaker 1  13:48 right. I think that's it's to be open and transparent with, with our children is very, and to have like the hard conversations and give them a safe space in which they can speak to Michael Hingson  14:02 the other side of that is that we should hold them to the same standard and say when you have issues and so on, we're here, we're not going to judge you, you need to have the hard conversations with us too. And I don't think we do nearly as much of that. I know when I was growing up, we had a lot of conversations. Of course, I was blind. I've been blind my whole life, and I encountered a lot of different things growing up, and my parents were glad to talk with me about blindness, and glad to talk with me about different things about independence, and it also was true that they allowed me to be independent. I mean, I rode my own bike around the neighborhood, and some other.. I'm not the only blind kid that did that in the world, but in my town I was brand.. and I think that, you know, I'm. Sure, that I was watched, but parents didn't interfere. I mean, I even fell off the bike a couple times until I really learned how to ride it, but they allowed me to have the opportunity to grow, and I think that there is a way to do that without, without, well, without stifling your kids, and that you can, you can let kids grow, and we should really emphasize curiosity a lot more than we do. Speaker 1  15:29 I agree, I think that's really important, is to give kids the space to grow and encourage curiosity. Michael Hingson  15:36 Yeah, we don't probably do that nearly as much as we ought to, well, so you mentioned you got married at 19. Well, I guess that's a little young, but, but you did that, huh? Speaker 1  15:48 I did. Yes, I did. I married young. Michael Hingson  15:54 How did that work out? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, it, it worked out for a little, well, it worked out for a while. I stayed married a really long time, but I eventually divorced 30 years later, and part of that had to do with I was, I did marry young, but my ex-husband also had some addictions that you know in time just became too hard to manage, so that ended the thing, and he Michael Hingson  16:29 wouldn't, and he wouldn't deal with them Speaker 1  16:31 well. At one point, I mean, we'll ask a lot of times in relationship with addicts, you kind of, there are times when they deal with them, and then times when they don't, Michael Hingson  16:39 right? Speaker 1  16:40 Yeah, so ultimately it dissolved. Michael Hingson  16:44 It's too bad when things happen. Speaker 1  16:47 That's right, yeah, but I'm grateful for the the union, because it produced my two great kids. Michael Hingson  16:56 And what, what else did being married for 30 years teach you? Speaker 1  17:01 Well, wow, that's a great question. I think probably it taught me most of all it's a lesson learned, sort of, that you really need to be true to yourself and listen to yourself, because I think deep down we know, and my I was always trying, like, to try harder, if I just try harder, you know, things will get better, but there's part of me deep down that knew I was sort of trying harder for everybody else but myself. And when I left New York, I had given up everything I'd worked on, and in, you know, in hindsight, when I look back, I, it was in a way I sort of abandon all my dreams and hopes, and ultimately I don't think that's a good thing when you give up yourself for someone else. Michael Hingson  17:50 So, after you got married, what did you do? Where did you go? Speaker 1  17:54 Well, my ex-husband was a professional soccer player, so we ended up going around the United States, he played for a couple different teams, and I went to college, and I finished my degree at the University of Texas, and then I, I did a couple things, I was a flight attendant, and I eventually fell into real estate, and worked in real estate for a long, long time, but along the way, I, there was a, there was a point where I kind of really missed that young creative person that I had started out my life as, and I'd always loved books and lacher, and my undergraduate degree was in literary studies, and I started writing stories, and then at midlife went back to graduate school for a master's of fine arts in creative writing, and and started writing. So I was, I was always doing a bunch of things. I was a real estate broker, I was managing a company, and then I was, I was writing, and began writing novels on the side. Michael Hingson  18:58 What was your bachelor's degree in Speaker 1  19:00 literary studies. Michael Hingson  19:02 Oh, okay, Speaker 1  19:03 yeah. Michael Hingson  19:04 So, you never did get degrees in what either of your parents did. Speaker 1  19:09 No, no, no, Michael Hingson  19:10 you weren't that into math. Speaker 1  19:12 No, not at all. No, I always liked words, words. Michael Hingson  19:16 Yeah, I understand. I do pretty well with math, but by the same token, I've been learning more about words, having now written three books, and appreciate it. I also like to collaborate, so when I write, I generally write with someone. I think that the team approach works, at least it does for me, and there are a lot of people who don't use a second person on their team, other than their publishers, editors, and so on, but for me the collaborative way works, which is fine. Speaker 1  19:49 I've had a little bit more experience later now in my creative career, because I've, and maybe we'll talk about this in a little bit, but I've started producing storytelling shows, so I. Work with the storytellers in helping them in their stories, so that's a much more collaborative exercise, and one one I really enjoy. Michael Hingson  20:09 Yeah, well, well, let's, let's, you know, we could talk about it now. What the heck, we don't have to do this in a linear way. Tell me about storytelling. What you think about storytelling. Why is it so important, and so on. Speaker 1  20:25 Well, for me, so the storytelling that I do, I'm working on this project called Love Notes, which real stories by real people about real love, and that came to me during the darkest, loneliest period of my life. It was, you know, after the disillusion of this 30 year marriage, and I was really despondent and, and disillusioned, and thinking, you know, like, does love even exist, and what does it look like, and I just, I just really didn't even believe in love anymore, and being in the storytelling community, I produced some storytelling shows, stories about motherhood. I put out a call to writers and actors and just regular people to share their true love stories, and so from that, people started sending me all these true stories, they had to be 1000 words or fewer, and so to answer your question, like, what does storytelling do in, in this case, I think story, storytelling, it's different than other mediums, like the personal essay or the novel, it's, it's a, it's a testament, it's a first person testament, and what's really great when you see the different storytelling communities around the country is anybody can do it, and so that's part of the beauty of storytelling. Michael Hingson  22:00 I think the key is, though, it has to be a genuine story. Making it up isn't the same thing, Speaker 1  22:06 right? And that's the difference, right? Because people will write a short story or story thing, but in storytelling, you're exactly right, Michael. It needs to be a true story, and that's what makes it so compelling, and I think so relatable, is that people can see themselves in other people's stories, so like in my case it was a way, it was like the evidence, the proof of love, like what it really looks like as it walks around in the world, Michael Hingson  22:36 so that's it, sounds like changed your view of love, and that you believe in love again. I Speaker 1  22:46 do, I do, and it's it, and even like during the first season of Love Notes, because we do an off-Broadway show here in Manhattan, and we have an anthology, a companion anthology. I remember that first year, like some I'd wake up in the morning and just like be not despondent but upset, like, oh, like this doesn't happen. And then literally there was like a little voice in my head that would say, oh well, don't you remember Stacey's story or Sarah's story? And it was like just like the the universe providing this evidence and this this proof and just hearing enough stories and story after story, yeah, it really did fortify my belief in love, and that love is for everyone, and it comes like from all these different angles, and when you least expect it, and it shows up in so many different forms. Michael Hingson  23:43 Yeah, well, and I think there's there's a lot of merit to that. I know when I was writing this last book that I wrote, which is entitled Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs, about being brave, overcoming adversity, and moving forward in faith, I spent a lot of time talking about each of the eight guide dogs that I've had and the lessons I learned from them, and also using those lessons in the book to show the importance of different aspects of what happens in our lives, but I have maintained for years I've learned a lot more about life and learned about leadership and teamwork. I've learned a lot more from these dogs than I ever learned from all the experts in the world, and that's primarily because we'll have some interesting observations. One, I allow my dogs to express themselves, but they also learn what the rules are. Because dogs really want to hear from humans, they want humans to set the rules, they want humans to be the pack leaders, by and large, and they want humans to be the ones to say this is what I expect, but when. That relationship forms, and it forms well. There's it's second to none, and you learn so much. Dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, and we're not. And we really should learn to be more open to trust, and just so many different kinds of things. It has really given me a lot of pause to think over the past several years, while we were writing the book, and, and I, and I think about it now. There are a lot of neat stories in there that really ultimately are love stories in one way or another, and I think that makes a lot of sense. Speaker 1  25:36 Oh, that's so.. I'm actually a new dog owner, well, not too new, I.. I'm for the first time in my adult life have a dog, and I just.. it's such a wonderful, like, experience, and it's opened me up to, yeah, like so many different levels of love. Michael Hingson  25:53 Yeah, dogs want to establish a relationship, but as I said, I don't think that they are open to just trusting they do pretty much love unconditionally, unless something just totally traumatizes them. But trusting is a different story, and that's a trust that has to be earned both ways. It's not just us earning their trust, but they're earning our trust, and the people who really take that to heart and develop that relationship and think about it, find that they have a bond that's really second to none. It's as close to knit a team as you could ever find. Speaker 1  26:35 That's beautiful. Michael Hingson  26:37 So, it's a lot of fun. What kind of dog do you have? Speaker 1  26:40 I have, well, because remember I'm in a small New York City. I have a teacup poodle. Michael Hingson  26:46 Oh, so it isn't a Saint Bernard, okay? Speaker 1  26:49 And she's, she's an eye, she's a, she's a character. She, she acts like she's a cross between a teacup and a pit bull when she's in the, when she's out on the street. She does not like she's a scaredy cat on the street. She would prefer to be carried when we're on the street, so she's got sort of a split personality, but she, and she doesn't take too many people. So, just like you were saying, I can identify with that, like the whole trust element, and she's, she only trusts a few people. Michael Hingson  27:25 Yeah, well, trust isn't something that happens overnight. I've maintained for a long time. I think it takes a good year for me when I am meeting a new guide dog. I think it takes a good year for the trust to become so seamless that we really know what each other is thinking, and I think that we really do understand each other. There's a lot of empathy there, Speaker 1  27:52 that's really great. So, Michael Hingson  27:53 I think it's, it is kind of cool. Well, so, but going back to you getting married and all that, so you gave up for a while a lot of your dreams, that that must have, whether it was conscious or not, been a little bit frustrating. Speaker 1  28:08 Yeah, and I didn't realize it at the time. It was only later, like when my younger self sort of came calling, and I had given up a lot for this marriage that didn't really turn out the way I had hoped, and yeah, so writing was a way for me to find myself again, was not only a refuge during that time in my life when I wasn't really happy, but it also really opened up that whole creative part of myself, which felt really good, and it's, you know, it's been something now I've been working on for the last decade and a half, Michael Hingson  28:57 but it sounds like you didn't really, or at least consciously you didn't really know that you were unhappy. Speaker 1  29:03 No, I didn't, and that's a really interesting observation that that you make, because you know, I had my children, I loved my children, and I loved being a mom, and I had a really fulfilling career, but there was something missing, you know, and I wasn't really able to put my finger on that until I started writing, and then it became more and more obvious that, yeah, this is the part that was missing, this, you know, who you had thought you were going to be a creative, you, you had denied that, and you're right, so it wasn't really conscious, but, like, once I sort of, it started to become more noticeable to me, then it sort of came back with a vengeance. Michael Hingson  29:49 How much writing did you do before you got married? Speaker 1  29:53 Before.. well, I really didn't, because I was more in the.. I read a lot. Lot, and, but I was more into that, the acting, so I didn't really, I mean, I would write some really bad poetry, but not anything. I know some writers will say they were writing from the time they were six years old, but I, it didn't come to me till much later. Michael Hingson  30:16 So, what got you started back writing after your marriage ended, what was the trigger that made that happen? Speaker 1  30:25 Writing and the marriage, it was like the last 10 years of, of my marriage, I was writing, and it's, I sort of wrote my, my way out of the marriage in a way, but what was the trigger, and I do remember there wasn't an absolute trigger. I had a friend who had self-published a book. Michael Hingson  30:45 Okay, Speaker 1  30:46 I was like a friend of a friend. And one afternoon, it was a summer afternoon, we were over at her house because she had been hired to go to an elementary school and do a presentation, and so we were brainstorming and about what she could do at this presentation, and I went home from that, and I was like, I felt like so energized again. I was like, wow, well, I could do this, I could write a children's book, and so I sat down, and I wrote this book called Beatrice Bumblebee is busy. I didn't know anything about publishing, and I thought to myself, okay, well, now I'll just write it, and I'll send it to publishers, and I'll get it published. Well, it was promptly rejected by every single publisher, and I knew nothing about the publishing that point, but it was enough of a spark. And then I did start just sort of playing around, and I had this scene in my head of a girl, like a young girl who's been in a car accident, and she's on the side of the road losing consciousness, and she has this terrible secret that she wants to tell her boyfriend, and this, the scene, it was like a dark, wet Pennsylvania night, and it was an autumn, and like, I could see the mist, and so I had written this scene, and I remember giving it to my father, who was a huge reader, and he's like, well, Heather, this is really good. Why don't you keep trying to work on it? And, and so I did, and I love school, so I was like, well, I don't know how to write, like, how can I learn how to write? And then I sort of discovered, oh, well, there's these MFA programs, and so I ended up applying, and and going back to school, and then it was in my MFA program, where I wrote the first draft of my first novel, but yeah, so the actual trigger was a friend who had published a self-published a book, and it really kind of triggered something in me. Michael Hingson  32:38 Whatever happened to Beatrice Bumblebee is busy, Speaker 1  32:41 she is in a drawer, but I do keep.. I have here on my bulletin board. I'll pull it down if we're on camera. I have this little bumblebee, it's like a rhinestone bumblebee that I keep stuck on my bulletin board as just a reminder that the address in my life. Michael Hingson  33:07 Well, are you ever going to publish it? Speaker 1  33:10 Oh, I don't think it's very good, Michael. Michael Hingson  33:12 Okay, well, maybe you should go back and rewrite it, but Speaker 1  33:16 then, and maybe if I have grandchildren someday, maybe I'll, I'll be, yeah, that's kind of interesting that you say that. Maybe I will go back and just look at it. It would be fun to look at it all these years later. Michael Hingson  33:32 Yeah, well, so you got rejected a whole bunch, which is a pretty common story. What did you learn from that? Speaker 1  33:42 Well, and I do, I do talks at different places, and one of the talks I say is I started with the, you know, Calvin Coolidge said most of humanity's problems can be solved with two simple words, press on, and and that's what I learned through the process. My first book was on submission for like 520 weeks before it finally found a publisher, and it was every degree of rejection that you can get when you're publishing, you know, I'm, and for people who understand the publishing hierarchy, you know, the coveted placement is to land a book deal with one of the big five traditional publishers, and then from there it works its way way down, and we had gotten close on some of the big fives and other places where we'd made it to acquisitions, and we finally ended up with a small indie publisher, but it took so long, and it was so soul crushing in a way, and not so much the first book, and the first book I was still like super, super hopeful, and then once it was published, it did go on, and it won the new. National Indy Excellence Award, and I kind of was always thinking of it as a, you know, a stepping stone, a stepping stone, and that the second book would, would land the big publishing deal, and the second book took just as long, and it ended up right back with the same publisher, so the rejection taught me, yeah, that you just need to keep going. I mean, sometimes people hit really easily, or you know, the way the wind's blowing that day, whatever's on trend or top of mind, and, and sometimes it doesn't, but you have to do it because you, you love it, and you're called to do it. Michael Hingson  35:46 When you were getting rejected, did you get any substantive feedback that helped, or do do publishers do much of that? Speaker 1  35:54 Well, actually, I did, especially on my second book, and on the first book, too, it depends how interested they are in the book, and I did have a couple that were pretty interested and gave what's called like an editorial letter, and oftentimes they won't even do that unless you're under contract, but I did have a couple that had liked it enough, so on my second book, especially my agent and I then took that information and did some like hard edits and rewrites, but that's not always the case. I mean, and I have a lot of friends who are also in the business, sometimes you don't get any, any feedback. Michael Hingson  36:39 So now all together, how many books have you written? Speaker 1  36:42 Well, I've written two, and then I've edited and curated the anthology, the Love Notes anthology, Michael Hingson  36:48 right? Speaker 1  36:49 Which, and I've written a small bit of that. Um, yeah, so I'd like to say three books. Michael Hingson  36:54 Are there more books in you? Okay, Speaker 1  36:58 for sure. We have, you know, we'll. well, first, the second, the second Love Notes edition, I'm definitely editing and curating the stories for that, and that's through a small publisher. And then I have been really sort of toying around with, like, what's my next book, and my first two books were young adult romance, mystery, and thriller, and I kind of think I'm done with that genre, so I have talked about an adult, adult fiction, or even a that would go kind of hand in hand with Love Notes, the my story type of book, you know, rebuilding after divorce and being on, you know, what the space that love notes came out of, and going on, you know, hundreds of dates, and what that, that looked like, but that's in a very sort of nebulous state. It Michael Hingson  37:54 will be fun to see what happens. You'll have to keep us all posted, Speaker 1  37:58 yeah, for sure. Michael Hingson  38:00 But you've, you've described your creative journey, your whole creative journey is basically transforming heartbreak into healing. Tell me more about that. Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, like I touched on earlier, Love Notes came out as sort of this really dark, lonely time in my life. My 30 year marriage had ended. My children had both left for college, and I'd relocated to New York City. So I was living alone for the first time in my adult lifetime. I was 19 years old, and New York can be a really.. for as many people who live here, it can be a really lonely place. I was really, really starting over, and I started dating at midlife, is, you know, it's not for the faint of heart, and I was going on a lot of dates, and just really discouraged by the whole process, and, like, I had sort of mentioned earlier, that's where I kind of was like almost indignant, like you know, I want proof, like show me proof that that love is real, and and that's where this this call to like look for people's love stories came from, so I do say it, it truly came out of a place of of loneliness and darkness, and then hope, though, too. You know, I was hoping I wanted to, I wanted, I wanted the stories to give me proof. I wanted them to be the evidence, and then, and then that sort of became a calling that, well, then I want to share that with other people and give other people hope, and that's been the most gratifying part for me is when somebody like they come to the show and the shows are really great, these storytelling shows, and now I've started to franchise them, so we have them popping up in some other cities, and I've gone around to some of the other cities, in fact, if you have any listeners who. When I produce a love note show, but the audience members, they're like, "Oh, wow, this, this was.. they don't expect it, first of all, coming into it, and everybody walks out feeling good, and that is like so gratifying to me, that, like, you know, in this, in these like divisive times, that they can come to a show, they can recognize part of the human experience, and they can walk out feeling uplifted and Speaker 2  40:25 hopeful, and that some readers, Speaker 1  40:27 you know, in the book do that too, like having read the book, and someone will reach out and say, "Oh, well, that just really gave me hope. So, hope that answers the question a little bit. Michael Hingson  40:40 Does it? Does it? Does get so the two books that you've written are what the Valley Knows and The Lying Season. Tell me more about those. What the interesting titles, to say the least. Speaker 1  40:52 Yeah, okay, so the both books are they're not ones, they're not a sequel and a prequel, but I would call them a series, because they're both in this fictional town of Millington Valley, which is much like the small town I grew up in, the Oley Valley, and it's all set around this high school, so the peripheral characters in the book stay the same, like the English teacher and the principal, but the kids, you know, because kids are only in high school for four years at a time, so different kids kind of like move through both of the books, they're both mysteries or are thrillers, and they both have like a big kind of like moral question at their center, both sent it set in this Millington Valley, which is a small Pennsylvania town, Michael Hingson  41:45 right? And they're, they're for juveniles, primarily. You said, I think, right. Speaker 1  41:52 Well, they are. They'd be considered young adults. What the valley knows, that's told from three point of views: two kids, and then one of the kids' mothers, so it has a lot of crossover appeal. So you and that book originally started at six point of views, and that was when I was in graduate school, and I remember my professor saying to me, Well, Heather, that's that's just too ambitious to try to do for your first book, you need to cut it down, and, and just whoever's story has to be there, that's the point of view you, you include, and so it kind of fell into the young adult category by accident, but I have a lot of adult readers who, who it really resonates as well, Michael Hingson  42:43 yeah. You know, I know a lot of people say, especially the early ones, the Harry Potter books are for more young adults, and so on, but I certainly had no problem enjoying them as a full-fledged, real-life middle-aged adult. So I think there's a lot that we can learn by stretching and not necessarily just falling into the trap of reading one kind or, or one sort of book that's, oh, this is for more adults or this is more for for children. Think there's a lot to be learned all the way around. Speaker 1  43:17 I think you're, you're right, Michael, and that's it's kind of like a modern thing that we do, like classifying books as adult fiction, like when we think about Catcher in the Rye, like what would that be considered now? Because the protagonist is a young adult, would it be considered a young adult book? But yeah, that's a really great point that you're making. Michael Hingson  43:40 Well, so you, you wrote these books, and you said that, so they've been published, and I assume they're out there. Do you know if they're audio books also? Speaker 1  43:52 Well, yes, and but here's the thing, I, because I didn't get to pick the publisher, I mean, the, you know, I didn't get to pick the narrator, so the what they both, okay, so what the bally knows is narrated. Yes, I don't like the narrator's voice. I know that's a terrible thing to say, because I would love for people to go and listen to the audio book, but I don't know, and maybe it's just me. And then the second book the publisher actually used like an AI kind of, I don't know exactly how it works, and I didn't really even know it happened till I went on Amazon one day, I was like, oh, they made an audio book of this, and it was in like an AI voice, so, so the answer is yes. Both of them are on audiobook. Love Notes is not the other bar. Michael Hingson  44:49 It's interesting, I'm on several lists that deal with audio books, and so on, and I hear people talking or. Emailing on the list all the time, and what people have often said is nonfiction books that are not what they're necessarily as much into as fiction books, they don't mind it being an AI voice, but when they're reading good fiction, where they really want to be absorbed, AI and synthetic voices text to speech just doesn't do it, and in fact I buy into that. I agree with that. I don't think that we have yet gotten computer synthesized voices to really take the place of human readers, and I don't know that we ever totally will, because we're so used to what people sound like, but it is an interesting thing that does come up. Speaker 1  45:47 Yeah, I agree with you. Michael Hingson  45:50 So, I prefer human readers in general. I've never been as great a fan of having a synthetic voice. Nothing against computers, but they just don't talk as well as humans do. Speaker 1  46:03 No, I agree with you too. I much prefer the human voice. Michael Hingson  46:09 Well, so you, when did you start writing love notes? When did that really start coming to fruition? Speaker 1  46:17 Well, love notes. We're coming into our third off-Broadway season this Valentine's Day, so it started that would, so it was started in 22 Michael Hingson  46:27 Oh, yeah. Okay, Speaker 1  46:29 so it's a relatively young project. We're going into our third year, but I'm super excited. We just cast the show for this upcoming performance, and that's really exciting. We have, you know, a bunch of local New Yorkers, but then we also have about the cast is 12 members, and six of them are from other parts of the country, so it's, it's got a, you know, flavor from from from all over. Michael Hingson  46:57 Now, is Love Notes available in any way online, or is it strictly just the shows, and they're not recorded and disseminated in any way. The Speaker 1  47:06 the all-star show, which is Valentine's Day at Symphony Space in New York City, the APM show is live streamed. Yeah, so it can be enjoyed from anywhere in the world. Michael Hingson  47:19 Okay, but outside of that one being live streamed, are there recordings of any of the shows that are out there for people to hear? Speaker 1  47:28 There are on my website, actually. Both the 2023 show and the 2024 show are available for resale. I think it's like $15 and you can, you can watch it's like it's a great, like date night kind of thing to watch the Love Notes show. Michael Hingson  47:48 Okay. Well, so from all that you have heard and seen and interacted with in doing Love Notes, how do you define real love today? Speaker 1  48:01 Oh that's it. Oh, Michael Hingson  48:03 that for a question out of left field. Yeah, Speaker 1  48:06 that's a great question. How do I define real love? So, I think real love shows up in a lot of different ways, and it.. and what's interesting in love notes, is I've seen all sorts of examples of it. I've seen the type of real love that ignites people when they're young, you know. Speaker 3  48:31 We'll love Speaker 1  48:31 that's the other thing people will say, "Oh, well, you were too young, that's why it didn't work out. But I don't think that's necessarily true. I think I think a little bit sometimes is luck of the draw, but the I've seen examples of people who met when they were 20 years old, and they've stayed together their entire lives, and that shows up in commitment and the ability to grow up together and to grow and evolve together, so I think real love shows up like that, but I've also seen real love, like the second time around type of love, and that sort of love, where people really need to be able to integrate their past and understand they're both two people carrying bags, and now they're going to carry those bags together, and so that shows up in a different way. Real love, and I've even seen it love showing up for people like in their 80s, third time around, or having never had partnered, and finding a partner very late in life, and that shows up in a whole different way, that's absolutely real too, but I think at the core of all types of real love is one, the ability to both people have to want the relationship, and they have. To be willing to work for the relationship, it's not just like what I want or you want, but it's oftentimes if they can ask the question, like what's the problem, and how is are we a team against the problem, or to be able to solve the problem, and I think that's sort of like the realist type of love that's out there, Michael Hingson  50:26 and I would, would also say it goes back to something we talked about earlier with, with dogs, dogs are are very much open to and do love unconditionally, and when we develop that kind of a relationship, it's as strong as any other kind of relationship that we can develop. When both sides of that relationship sense it and know it, it creates a bond that's, as I said earlier, second to none. Speaker 1  50:58 Yeah, that's a really great way of putting Michael Hingson  51:02 it. I would, I would not want to do anything to betray my guide dog or any of the guide dogs that I've had, but I've learned how to create those teams, and I think that's very important. One thing that that sticks in my mind dealing with dogs is when I lived in Northern California, we were very close to the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous organizations of that type in the world. We were talking to one of the people at the Marin Humane Society one day, and they were talking about the fact that they're growing in class sizes and growing in the number of classes that they have to offer, but what they also point out is that 90% of the training isn't training the dog, it's training the human, which is really true. There's so much that humans don't really work to develop the relationship that they should, and that if they really truly understood it, it would, it would be a whole lot different relationship that they would experience, Speaker 1  52:05 yeah, that's a really nice way of looking at it. Michael Hingson  52:10 Well, so you have love notes that are growing by loops and bounds in a lot of ways, and you have, how many different places are doing the shows now? Speaker 1  52:24 Well, so far we have Indianapolis, Chicago, Redding, Pennsylvania, and then we have another Pennsylvania city, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and we're in talks right now with Atlanta, Georgia, and Tampa, Florida. Michael Hingson  52:42 Wow, so it's growing, Speaker 1  52:45 it's growing, it's starting to spread. We're starting to spread some love. Michael Hingson  52:51 I get it. What do you think about that? Speaker 1  52:54 I think it's great. Like, I hope I'd love to see one in every city. Such a nice event that really brings the community together. Michael Hingson  53:04 So, how often do the shows run? Is it just like on Valentine's Day, or do they go throughout the whole year? Speaker 1  53:10 It can be any time of year, and it's usually just a one-day event. Sometimes there's multiple shows on one day, but yeah, it's just a one day. Oftentimes the local producer will partner with a local charity, so we try to give back in that way too, and they can choose the charity they want, or, or sometimes they're trying to fund like a scholarship fund, or or something like that. I do encourage that, and and we have like a mastermind group among the producers just trying to support each other as creative entrepreneurs. Michael Hingson  53:46 Well, you're you're seeing a lot of success with it. What kind of surprises have you experienced? This must be kind of a thrill, and a lot of, a lot of surprises for you. Speaker 1  53:58 Well, one of the surprises. well, I'm not surprised by it anymore, but I, I can, I'm certain, always surprised when I have a cast member who, at the very last minute, you know, they've gone through all the rehearsals, all the prep work, all the editing, and then at the very last second they pull out of the show, I've had that happen each show, so now I know how to plan for it, and know how to prepare, you know, producers for it. But yeah, that, that's always surprising to me. Michael Hingson  54:34 It's an adventure, isn't it? Speaker 1  54:35 Sure is. Yeah, gotta sing quickly on your feet. Michael Hingson  54:39 Yeah, you definitely have to do that. Tell us a little bit about Socroc, the company you and your brother formed, and what that's all about. Speaker 1  54:47 Sure, well, my brother was a professional soccer player, and he, when he retired, he moved to Manhattan, thinking he was going to be an actor, and as most actors. Oh, they need a second job to support themselves. Yeah, so became a personal trainer, and he was personal training, and some of his clients got word that he'd been a professional soccer player, and they begged him, they're like, can you teach our kids soccer? So it kind of happened by accident, and just a few balls and cones in Central Park, teaching soccer to little kids, and over the years it's grown and grown and grown and grown. We're in our like 20th year, and so during it was like maybe five years ago, he, it just got out of hand, like it was getting too big, and he needed help, and that was when I had gone through the divorce, and I like explained I'd been in business before, and I wanted a change, so he offered me, you know, a position to come and help him and run, so I run the business side of the soccer, and he runs the soccer side, and we're all throughout Manhattan, we, we do public classes in the parks and playgrounds, and then, like, now in the winter time, we rent space all around the city, and then we also partner with private schools and public schools throughout the city, and we do birthday parties and personal training, and we're starting a kids of all abilities program, and that's that's like our new initiative right now, and and then the spring we're expanding into actually into basketball too, BB Rock, we're calling Michael Hingson  56:29 it. Oh, that's cool. Well, you're doing a lot of different things, you speak, you're an author, you're an educator. We haven't talked about, I guess it's you work with Speaker 1  56:39 SUNY. I teach at the City University of New York, which is part of SUNY, and that work I really love. Yeah, Michael Hingson  56:47 tell, tell me about that. Then, Speaker 1  56:49 so they have an initiative, it's through the Manhattan Educational Opportunity Center, and SUNY provides grants for adult students returning who need to get their high school epilepticy, their GED. So I teach writing the writing section of the GED, and this I - these are the students I like the most, and I've taught at all levels, from freshman comp all the way up to graduate level MFA, and it's the GED adult student that I enjoy the most. So, I'll, when I, when I'm done with you, I actually will zoom up to Harlem, and I'll be teaching GED time tonight. Michael Hingson  57:35 Okay. Well, you're doing all of these different things. How do you keep yourself grounded, and how do you keep the creative juices going? Speaker 1  57:44 Well, that can sometimes be a challenge. Michael Hingson  57:46 I bet, Speaker 1  57:47 but I do. I exercise. That's one thing I really, I love to exercise, and I'm getting better at just taking time for myself, but I also feel like what I do isn't work, like I enjoy what I do, so I always try to bring a sense of gratitude to each day in that way. Michael Hingson  58:13 Yeah, well, and taking time for yourself is is important to do, and and now you have a teacup poodle to share it with, and I'll bet you guys have some interesting conversations. Speaker 1  58:26 Yeah, we sure do. She's a cutie, she's just lying on the little chair right over here. Michael Hingson  58:33 Yeah, my, my dog is over here on his bed, so he, he, he monitors me. Speaker 1  58:41 Yeah, she's been really good, because sometimes when I'm on the Zoom like this, she, she'll start to bark. She doesn't like paying attention to somebody else. Michael Hingson  58:48 Well, one of these days we'll have to end up in Manhattan and come and meet her. Speaker 1  58:54 That sounds Michael Hingson  58:55 be kind of fun. Speaker 1  58:57 That sure would. Michael Hingson  58:58 Well, so tell me, what's next for you? What do you envision going forward from here? Speaker 1  59:04 Well, my hope is actually, I would love, because there have so much fodder now, all these different stories, love stories. My hope is to launch a podcast, a Love Notes podcast that would feature the storyteller and their story, and then I would do an interview of the story behind the story, because people always have questions. They'll hear a story, or they'll read the story, and it's really short. It's like 700 or 1000 words, and they'll always want to know, like, well, what happened to them, or how did that end up. So I envisioned this podcast of love notes, real stories by real people about real love, and that would be like the the meat of it, and then they're at the end of each one, there'd be like a love letter, and people could write love letters that would be shared on the podcast, and tell Michael Hingson  59:55 me, Speaker 1  59:56 you know, like, dear Michael, this is why I love you, and then it would be a. Letter, so that's that's I'd like to see more satellite cities. I'd like to get the next edition of the book out, and then launch the podcast by Trifecta. Michael Hingson  1:00:13 Lots going on, needless to say. Well, if people want to reach out to you, talk about creating their own love notes, or as you said, you'd love to find people who want to help produce in various cities. How do they do that? Speaker 1  1:00:27 Well, probably the easiest thing to do is first, if they just want to learn more about the project in general, would just be to check out the website, and that's at www dot Love Notes worldwide.com and from there, then you can, you can get a hold of me, but I'll give my email address also, it's Heather at Heather Christy, C H R I s t i e books.com so either just hit the website or send me an email directly, and I, yeah, I'd love to talk to anybody who's got a story they want to share, or anyone who's thinking like maybe they'd love to bring a love notes to their community. Michael Hingson  1:01:19 Cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and that you'll get lots of interest from our podcast. It's a, it's a fun thing, and I hope that people will respond. So, all of you out there, email Heather. Speaker 1  1:01:34 That sounds great. And my last little plug: if anybody would love to watch the Love Notes show on January, february 14 for Valentine's Day. You can find that information on the website too. Michael Hingson  1:01:48 What I'm trying to remember, what day of the week february 14 is going to be in 2026 Speaker 1  1:01:53 It's a Michael Hingson  1:01:54 Saturday, great day to Speaker 1  1:01:57 do it. So you can watch it, and actually the live stream will stay live for a week, so if you're not able to watch it that night, you can watch it during the week. Michael Hingson  1:02:05 Oh, cool. Well, I hope people will do that, and I want to thank you for being here. But I want to thank all of you out there for being a part of this today. Heather has had a lot of interesting things to say, and I hope that you'll help her and help yourself by helping her to be more successful. I'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H i@accessibe.com that's M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com We'd love it and would greatly appreciate it if wherever you are listening or watching the podcast, if you'll give us a five star review, but also, or a rating, but also give us a review. We love reviews, we appreciate reviews, and we really value all the people who have done it so far, and we ask that you do it again, or you do it for the first time. So, please let us know what you think by writing reviews. If you know anyone who ought to be a guest, we'd love it if you'd let us know. Heather, you as well. Anyone that you think ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we would really love to be introduced. My belief is everyone has stories to tell, so don't be shy. We'd love to hear from you. But Heather, once again, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:03:26 Thank you so much, Michael. It's been so much fun to talk to you this afternoon. Michael Hingson  1:03:32 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others each week. I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started, 1:04:24 I.

Aimee Kilmer, Founding Partner & Creative Director of Good Stuff Partners, has spent more than 20 years in the creative industry advocating for brands that prioritize the well-being of people, animals, and the planet. From designing for VegNews and V-Dog to working with Habitat for Humanity, Aimee's passion for purpose-driven work has always been at the forefront of her career.In this episode, Aimee shares how her dissatisfaction with traditional creative agency work led her to co-found Good Stuff Partners whose mission is to work with clients that align with her values. She discusses how staying authentic to her principles drives the work she does and helps her deliver the most meaningful results for her clients.Beyond her professional achievements, Aimee talks about her commitment to the vegan lifestyle, her volunteer work with the Marin Humane Society, and the importance of standing up for animal rights in her community. Tune in to hear her inspiring journey and how she embodies the values she promotes through her agency.Get to know Aimee and Good Stuff Partners better here: https://www.goodstuffpartners.com/Quote:Just listen to your gut. If you have a bad feeling about something, run for the hills. Find a different client, because it never really works out. And I think that's just something as women we need to do – trust our gut more. It's something I wish I'd done early on. And it also goes the other way; when you have a great feeling about someone, you can really start to build great relationships. – Aimee KilmerShow notes timestamps:▶️ [01:12] Seeing your long-term impact: creating "Good Stuff Partners" and helping both non-profit and profit organizations.

Today's Topic:   Having an overexcited dog can present a variety of challenges for dog parents. The exuberance and high energy levels of such dogs can lead to difficulties in training and managing their behavior, which can make simple daily activities like walks or playtime more demanding as these dogs may require extra effort to channel their excess energy appropriately.So as a new dog parent to an overexcited dog, what options do you have in terms of training, management, and changing how you view your dog?That's why we invited the Director of the Behavior & Training Department At The Marin Humane Society, the founder of Canine Behavior Associates, and the author of the critically-acclaimed book, Parenting Your Dog, Trish King, to the podcast, to discuss how we unknowingly are overstimulating our dogs, how dogs can get addicted to excitement - even those rooted in fear, how leashes can add to overexcitement, what "extinctive drift" means, how oversocialization may be contributing to our dogs' overexcitement, and so much more!Guest Bio: Trish has been a professional in the animal world for over 30 years.   As Director of the Behavior & Training Department at the Marin Humane Society, she built a department known throughout the United States for its quality.  Trish established the Canine Behavior Academy at MHS for new or interested trainers.   She currently teaches the Academy of Dog Behavior, and teaches workshops and seminars on behavior, canine management, temperament assessment, and handling difficult dogs, among other topics. In addition, she and her partner own Canine Behavior Associates, consulting with and helping dogs and their owners.Her extensive knowledge of animal behavior, as well as her sense of humor, have made her a popular speaker at a variety of conferences worldwide.Trish authored a critically acclaimed book for dog owners, Parenting Your Dog (TFH Publications).   She has written numerous articles about dog and cat behavior for local and national newspapers and magazines.  She also developed the “Canine Calming Cap", marketed by the Thundershirt Company, to help dogs that are overly anxious or excitable.Connect With Trish King: WebsiteOther Resources Mentioned In The Episode:Overexcited Dog? How to Calm A Dog DownA Dog's Day With Humans – Time Activity Budget Of Free-Ranging Dogs In India

You guys have heard me say it before, but so much of what I have learned to help dogs with aggression issues has come from amazing icons in our community who have been so generous to share their knowledge and insight with the world. One such amazing trainer is none other than Trish King. Have you heard of the umbrella method to deal with off-leash dogs trying to harass or attack your on-leash dog? Yup, that credit goes to Trish. In this fantastic conversation, Trish and I chat about a variety of topics around helping dogs with aggression, as well as avoiding it in the first place through things like socialization...and when I say socialization, it may not be quite what you are thinking. For additional resources on helping dogs with aggression, visit:https://aggressivedog.comIf you want to take your knowledge and skills for helping dogs with aggression to the next level, check out the Aggression in Dogs Master Course and get a FREE preview here:https://aggressivedog.thinkific.com/courses/aggression-in-dogsDon't miss out on the third annual Aggression in Dogs Conference  9/30-10/2/22:https://aggressivedog.com/conference/Woof Cultr swag!https://woofcultr.com/collections/the-aggression-in-dogs-conferenceAbout Trish:Trish has been a professional in the animal world for over 30 years.   As Director of the Behavior & Training Department at the Marin Humane Society, she built a department known throughout the United States for its quality.  Trish established the Canine Behavior Academy at MHS for new or interested trainers.   She currently teaches the Academy of Dog Behavior, and teaches workshops and seminars on behavior, canine management, temperament assessment, and handling difficult dogs, among other topics. In addition, she and her partner own Canine Behavior Associates, consulting with and helping dogs and their owners.Her extensive knowledge of animal behavior, as well as her sense of humor, have made her a popular speaker at such venues as the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT), The Humane Society of the US (HSUS), American Humane Association AHA), and California Animal Care Conferences.  Trish authored a critically acclaimed book for dog owners, Parenting Your Dog (TFH Publications).   She has written numerous articles about dog and cat behavior for local and national newspapers and magazines.  She also developed the “Canine Calming Cap, “marketed by the Thundershirt Company, to help dogs that are overly anxious or excitable.   https://www.canine-behavior-associates.com/about-1/about-trish/Support the show

Gregg Tully is the Executive Director of the Pan African Sanctuary Alliance (PASA), the largest association of wildlife centres in Africa, with the aim of securing a future for the African primates and their habitats. Gregg shares with us how he has always had a passion for nature and animals, he just did not know how to obtain a career in that field. Consequently, he went to university to study biology with a major in environmental studies. Soon he identified that he loved teaching older people and believed this way he could share his passion for animals. Gregg understood that this required a PhD, so he earned one in Evolutionary Biology from the University of California Santa Barbara in 2006. Gregg, alongside his studies, volunteered at the Nepal Youth Foundation. Here, he developed his passion for working for non-profit organisations. Following his PhD, he became the Development Director of the Nepal Youth Foundation. He highlighted his skills in funding proposals and how they helped him to get this job. Missing the animal aspect, Gregg moved to California working in Marketing and Communications at the Marin Humane Society. Here he learnt many skills that would help him in the future including animal shelter management, public communications, and graphic design. Gregg then returned to Nepal in 2011 and worked as the Development and Communications Manager and acting Executive Director of the Kathmandu Animal Treatment Centre. Whilst here, he received the Marin Humane Society's Humanitarian of the Year award for his commitment to animal protection worldwide. Gregg then introduces us to PASA. He explained how it started as a collaboration between sanctuaries who wanted to share their primate knowledge to improve success and increase their voice internationally. He states that African primates' main threats are habitat loss, international wildlife trade and the bushmeat crisis. He then goes onto elaborate that PASA's sanctuaries does more than caring for primates. They form strong local connections to ensure the individual sanctuaries are culturally appropriate. This enables them to educate children on the animals, and the villagers on how to feed their families in a sustainable way. Gregg also shares PASA's commitment to member capacity building. This includes training in veterinary care, community, education, fundraising and primate care and welfare. These workshops are decided by the sanctuaries themselves. In doing so, PASA increases their reputation among other conservation organisations. This is crucial as PASA can now influence policy changes within the Convention on International Trade and Endangered Species (CITES) to better control trafficking of primates internationally. Gregg stresses that the primate reintroduction process in Africa is complicated. There are limited ideal habitats remaining, with most already containing wild populations of territorial primates or has high cases of poaching. Additionally, the whole process is lengthy and expensive. It requires planning, long distance travelling, hiring staff, gradual release, and post-release monitoring. Each primate is assessed to determine individual release suitability in relation to their background and behaviours. Gregg concludes by stressing the importance of connections. He tells a story of when a group of 25 monkeys got ceased from traffickers at Zimbabwe's borders. PASA has no sanctuaries there, however, through connections they found JACK, a chimpanzee sanctuary. PASA helped JACK to fundraise to make suitable enclosures with the overall aim being their reintroduction. Learn about PASA HERE and JACK Sanctuary HERE Learn about CITES HERE Become a member of PAWS HERE

They often say that a dog is a man or in our case a girls best friend! Pets can provide an incredible connection for girls teach confidence, independence and responsibility. But sometimes the relationship between children and pets of all ages can become rocky, sometimes scary and dangerous. Lots of dogs are relinquished to animal shelters because their families don't feel as if they can cope with parenting humans and dogs at the same time. Either it's too chaotic or it feels unsafe. But with adequate support from professionals, they can set up strategies and a training plan to help families regain peace of mind and keep their families safe. We can teach children to read dog body language so that they can learn to interact safely with all dogs, not just their family pet, and prevent problems before they escalate and become dangerous.By learning to read dog body language and do basic training, girls can grow up to be confident with the family dog and other canines they may encounter in their lives. We can help to keep them safe, and they, in turn, can feel empowered by helping others learn the same life skills. Michelle Stern is a San Francisco Bay Area native and currently lives in Marin County. She's a mom to a daughter heading to college next year, and a 16 year old son. She also shares her home with her husband, dog, service dog puppy and 4 mean chickens. After teaching high school biology and running a cooking school for children for 16 years combined, she has returned to her first true love. Dogs. Working with dogs also means working with their humans, which she adores. Michelle is a dog behavior consultant, a Licensed Educator for the Dogs & Storks®, and Dogs & Toddlers™ Family Paws programs and a dog training instructor for the Marin Humane Society. She is also a partner with The Family Dog, offering private in-home training lessons for whole families, kids included.

A little preparation goes a long way in setting up baby and dog to be lifelong pals.Helping a dog acclimate to the new smells, sounds, and demands of a baby takes a bit of time and forethought, according to Trish King, Director of Behavior and Training at the Marin Humane Society. There will be many changes in the dog's life; best to begin instituting those changes before the baby arrives on the scene. Listen to this week's "Good Dog" podcast episode for a wealth of information on how to keep baby safe from your well meaning but, perhaps, excitable pup.

Many of us have troubling memories of being called upon in grade school to read aloud. For some kids, it can be torturous to feel that everyone is listening and judging the performance. But dogs don't judge and they're being used, increasingly, in classrooms and libraries to help young readers gain comfort and, ultimately, develop a stronger attachment to reading. Darlene Blackman coordinates the SHARE a book program at the Marin Humane Society in Novato, California. She works closely with local teachers, reading specialists and librarians to create opportunities for volunteers to bring their trained dogs to children who can benefit from reading to supportive, friendly, furry, nonjudgmental listeners. In this episode of the "Good Dog" podcast, brought to you by Eukanuba, learn how this program evolved, how you can volunteer in this way, and how you can bring a similar program to your community. For more information, Darlene can be reached at dblackman@marinhumanesociety.org.If you have a question that you'd like answered about your dog, write to us at GoodDog@SmarterPodcasts.com. Today's episode was in response to a listener question.SmarterPodcasts.com, Delivering Sound Advice.

Hear what happens when authorities seize 800 tiny dogs from deplorable conditions. About 800 small dogs, primarily Chihuahuas, were seized from a mobile home in Southern Arizona when a woman, responding to an Internet ad to purchase a puppy, became suspicious. Authorities described the living conditions as among the worst they’d ever seen.Marin Humane Society staff was dispatched to the Tucson area and transported as many dogs as they safely could back to Novato, California. Fifty or more of these tiny pups are in foster homes and more than 300 applications have come in from local families interested in adopting one. The story may have a happy ending, but there's much to learn about preventing this sort of animal abuse and neglect. Kim Snyder, Director of Animal Care and Veterinary Services at the Marin Humane Society tells the whole story and provides great information about hoarding, how to avoid puppy mills, and how you can help when crises like these occur.If you have a question that you'd like answered about your dog, write to us at GoodDog@SmarterPodcasts.comSmarterPodcasts.com, Delivering Sound Advice.

Nancy and Harold Rhee discuss the successful Clear the Shelters adoption day in Berkeley, California, along with our upcoming podcast series on Pit Bulls. We also discuss the downside of offering free pet adoptions, and our very shy foster dog, Curry. Show recap notes at http://thisispawprint.com/60 Our Periscope live video account https://www.periscope.tv/thisispawprint/1ZkKzpEOAqRJv Our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/thisispawprint/ Our dogs’ names are Nacho, Lego, and Evie. Clear the Shelters was an effort of NBC partnering with local animal shelters in the United States for a coordinated animal rescue day on Saturday, July 23, 2016. Clear the Shelters has grown in its two years of existence, and over 47,000 pets were adopted in 2016 due to this terrific partnership. Website http://www.cleartheshelters.com Clear the Shelters video Featuring the local NBC station and many rescue organizations in the San Francisco Bay Area. http://www.nbcbayarea.com/on-air/as-seen-on/Clear-the-Shelters_-More-than-46_000-Pet-Adopted_Bay-Area-388189702.html Nancy and Harold fostered Chloe, who got adopted, and currently foster Curry. Diane Roth fostered Noodle, who was found extremely malnourished. We interviewed Diane, she was a fascinating guest! http://www.thisispawprint.com/22-diane-roth-piglet-the-chihuahua-single-source-dog-food/ The Good and Bad of Free Adoptions Clear the Shelters featured either reduced fee or free adoptions. While this positively increases interest in pet adoptions, the downside is free adoptions can attracted people looking for “bait” dogs and cats for dog fighting, along with folks trying to make some quick money. They do this by adopting an animal for free with the intention of selling the animal for a profit. Contra Costa Humane Society http://cchumane.org Berkeley Humane https://berkeleyhumane.org Berkeley Humane’s Clear the Shelters event https://berkeleyhumane.org/NBC-Animals Milo Foundation http://milofoundation.org/index.cfm Hopalong Animal Rescue http://www.hopalong.org Marin Humane Society http://www.marinhumanesociety.org/site/c.aiIOI3NLKgKYF/b.7628477/k.6D56/Marin_Humane_Society.htm Look out for future announcements for our Pit Bull series!! Initial episode should be released around the end of August. If you want to join our animal rescue community and receive two free bonus dog-training resources from Irith Bloom, positive reinforcement dog trainer, go to http://thisispawprint.com/ask. Irith can be found at http://www.thesophisticateddog.com/ All of Pawprint's music is composed by Luke Gartner-Brereton. Luke is a musician based in Australia, and he composes a wide variety of songs and musical loops http://vanillagroovestudios.com http://soundcloud.com/luke-gartnerbrereton If you want to learn more about Nancy and Harold, go to our About Us page at http://thisispawprint.com/about or listen to our introductory podcast episode, "Fifty Puppies and a Podcast." http://thisispawprint.com/000 Pawprint (or Paw Print) is a weekly podcast dedicated to animal rescue, adoption, and the heroes who make it happen. Volunteer, walk, adopt, or foster a dog, cat, rabbit, or other wonderful pet through your local shelter, humane society, SPCA, pound, and animal control. Stop abuse, and help increase animal protection, welfare, and rights.  http://thisispawprint.com http://animalrescuepodcast.com

It's a rare kid who doesn't melt at the sight of a puppy. It's a rare adult, too! But the reality of being a responsible pet owner, day in and day out, is often very different from the fantasy of having a family dog. Animal trainer and Marin Humane Society Adoption Counselor Karen Schuerholz firmly believes that growing up with a dog is a "fabulous experience for kids. It teaches them life lessons." But it's not a good fit for everyone. Annie talks with Karen about how parents can determine when and if it's the right time to bring a dog into your pack. About Karen Schuerholz Karen Schuerholz has been an animal lover since childhood. Formerly in Advertising Sales, Karen moved to California 20 years ago with her son Matthew and her first dog Oscar. This 125 lb. Chocolate Lab mix would shape her future as an animal enthusiast. When he passed in 1998, she started volunteering at the MHS as an Adoption Counselor and quickly realized that a career in animal care would be in her future. Karen is a graduate of the MHS Canine Behavior Academy Levels I and II. She continues to work as an Adoption Counselor at MHS and trains new volunteers in the program. Her philosophy is that dog training can be fun! The key ingredient to having and raising pets is patience and knowing that they will tell you what they want—you just have to pay attention to how they tell you. Learn more about pet adoption at http://MarinHumaneSociety.org Copyright © 2009-2018 Annie Fox and Electric Eggplant. All Rights Reserved.

Susan Daffron talks to Carrie Harrington from the Marin Humane Society about a dog named Rocky who is available for adoption. Rocky is an 8-year old smooth collie mix who just loves people -- all people, even little kids. It's difficult to find a dog nicer than Rocky. Although he is friendly and playful, he also is happy to settle down at your feet or next to you on the sofa for some quality snooze time. Carrie calls Rocky, "a big goofball" who just loves to play with his toys. Plus, he's even had some obedience training and knows how to "sit" and "down" on command. Because he is an energetic 55-pound dog, he will need regular exercise. Rocky is an extremely striking dog, partly because he has handsome tan and white markings, but also because he has one brown eye and one blue eye. Even though his eyes are different colors, he doesn't have any vision or hearing problems. In fact, the folks at the Marin Humane Society did a full vet exam on him complete with blood work and he's just a healthy happy dog that would be ideal for an active family that can give him the love he deserves. ] More details on this episode MP3 Podcast -Rocky - A Great All-Around Family Dog - with Susan Daffron on PetLifeRadio.com

‘Pen Pals of San Quentin'…no it is not a correspondence initiative for the inmates of this northern California prison but rather an innovative partnership between the Marin Humane Society and this penal institution. Dogs with special rehabilitation needs are matched with selected minimum-security inmates. This program and its coordinator, Larry Carson, have had such a phenomenal success that the California Veterinary Medical Association has honored them. There are few things more relaxing than a good massage for relieving stress, but massage for a dog or cat? My guest, Jean Pierre Hourdebaigt, is an internationally recognized pioneer in the field of dog, cat and horse massage. He will inform us of the benefits of pet massage, from speeding postoperative healing to increasing the loving bonds that you and your pet share. More details on this episode MP3 Podcast -Doggedly Doing Time -- Prisoners and Pets -- a Win/Win Situation & Why You Want to Become Your Pet's Personal Masseuse with Dr. Bernadine Cruz