Podcasts about Squire

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Every animal is telling you something. The real question is whether you're paying attention. I sit down with animal behavior expert Hanne Grice to explore what our pets reveal about trust, stress, communication, and even ourselves. Drawing on nearly 20 years of experience, Hanne explains why behavior is never random, why outdated dominance theories continue to harm animals, and how curiosity leads to better relationships with both pets and people. We also discuss guide dogs, emotional regulation, grief, parenting with dogs, and the science behind building trust through predictability and choice. I believe you'll find this conversation valuable whether you share your life with animals or simply want to become a better leader, communicator, and observer of those around you Highlights: 05:47 – The biggest breakthrough in animal behavior starts with changing the human. 09:35 – A common belief about dog dominance is challenged by modern science. 20:34 – Jane Goodall's work transformed how we understand animal emotions and personalities. 31:02 – Hidden medical issues often explain behaviors owners mistake for disobedience. 45:14 – Giving animals more choice can reduce stress and strengthen trust. 58:21 – Remarkable stories show how animals have influenced history in unexpected ways. About the Guest: Hanne Grice is a UK Clinical Animal Behaviourist, Certified Trainer, and award-winning educator who specialises in the science of human–animal relationships. She founded Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour in 2006 and has supported thousands of families across dogs, cats, and small companion animals. Her work centres on evidence informed welfare, behaviour change, and practical strategies that help people and their animals nurture stable, healthy relationships. Alongside clinical practice, Hanne lectures at the postgraduate level in applied animal behaviour, human–animal interactions, and the psychology that shapes how people understand and interact with their pets. She previously served on the Board of the UK's Animal Behaviour and Training Council. When her tenure concluded in July 2025, she was appointed an Honorary Individual Member in recognition of her outstanding contribution to the charity's mission to raise and protect professional standards. Hanne is known for making science accessible. Her “How Does…” series explores everyday behaviour across species, and her “Animals in History” films examine the remarkable roles animals have played across cultures and time. She is the author of Playing with Your Dog (2010), a practical guide to enriching the lives of companion animals through evidence-informed play. Her research includes studies on dog–owner relationships during pregnancy and early parenthood, as well as ongoing work on behaviour change techniques for animal professionals. She continues to develop tools that bring together behavioural science, practical welfare, and effective communication, helping owners and practitioners create environments where animals feel safe, understood, and able to thrive. Ways to connect with Hanne**:** Hanne Grice YouTube: Hanne Grice Pet Training & Behaviour - YouTube Facebook: Hanne Grice Pet Training and Behaviour Instagram: Hanne Grice on Instagram LinkedIn: Hanne Grice | LinkedIn TikTok: Hanne Grice (@hannegrice) | TikTok https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhiktobqDFUSrjuXKBQUW_xyz&si=T9593esdANzVVYoM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOf6YEUpLhik4U80OJWUMHd5JwbDNZbwd&si=atOLyb_foY_7AVjs   https://learn.hannegrice.com/ https://shophannegrice.com/ https://amzn.to/4pxuzfv  About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I am Mike Hingson, or you can call me Michael Hingson, just to make sure you get the Hingson part right. I am the host of Unstoppable Mindset, and today we get to chat with Hanne Grice from over in the well, across the pond, shall we say. So it's later in the evening there, and she was just telling me that her children celebrate Christmas tomorrow because they also have another Christmas to celebrate on Thursday, so I might be jealous. It is being recorded by the way two days before Christmas in 2025 and we're looking forward to it. Hannah is an animal behavior, she's an expert in all of that. She's done a program called How Does, which I'm interested to learn more about. She is also founded other organizations dealing with training, I think, probably more humans than pets, but all about pet training and developing relationships. Just before we came on, we were talking about a couple of our kiddies, and I should tell you, Hanne, I had a guide dog, my second guide dog, Holland, who was a golden retriever, lived 15 years, so he lived a long time, and was actually three weeks from retirement when he collapsed, and I think had a stroke and a heart attack, and the vet said we could bring him back, but he wouldn't have a good quality of life, so, but we were only without a guide dog for three weeks, but anyway, with all that aside, Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. We're glad you're here. Hanne Grice  02:34 Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor, and I'm sorry to hear about Holland. So, thank you for sharing that. Michael Hingson  02:42 Well, here's a wonderful puppy dog, and now we have Alamo, who will be 10 years old on the 14th of May, and he will have been a guide dog for me for eight years on the 24th of February, and that's especially interesting because the 24th of February is my birthday, so I regard Alamo as a wonderful birthday present, which is kind of cool. Speaker 1  03:17 That is cool. And how long, Michael, would you typically have a guide dog for when do they typically retire. Michael Hingson  03:24 Typically it's an average thing. It really is all a question of how the guide dog is doing, and so on, because it's a very stressful job, but it's also up to me to keep the stress as low as possible. But typically it's, it's six to eight years, and I expect Alamo to work and be around for quite a while, yet he's just doing really well and isn't showing much age, and I'm happy with that. And then Stitch is going to be 16 in January, so we guess we rescued her back in 2015 and and so she's she's been around, and the two get along pretty well together. They don't chase each other or anything like that, but, but they do communicate, and they talk, and they touch noses, and all that. And every so often, Stitch steals Alamos bed, and poor Alamo doesn't know what to do about it, because Stitch has claws, and he knows it. So he just goes and finds another place to collapse until she leaves. Speaker 1  04:20 Yeah, cats and dogs, they find a way, but two of the species that I work very closely with, so yeah, and a testament to the quality and type of relationship that you have with them, that they're aging so well. So that's great to hear. Michael Hingson  04:36 One of the things that I insist on when I'm having to get a new guide dog, which I don't anticipate doing for a long time yet, but one of the things that I insist is that any guide dog I get has to have been raised around cats and get along with cats. I've seen a couple of guide dogs that are cat haters, and I would never want that kind of thing, especially when it's such an. Easy distraction when that happens. Speaker 1  05:02 Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine what it'd be like if suddenly you're finding yourself careering down the street, right? My dog was chasing the neighbor's cat, not good, not good for any of the animals or human involved. So, yeah, Michael Hingson  05:15 my fourth guide dog, Lynn, loved to chase rabbits, now not out of any kind of meanness or anything like that. She just wanted friends, and she loved to visit my first guide dog, Squire, when we were in Boy Scouts, and went to a camp one on a camping trip one weekend. Actually, caught a road runner, and we discovered that the road runner had a broken leg, but we fixed it, and the road runner took off, but again he just wanted to talk. He never hated any animal, and you know, none of my guide dogs have ever done anything, except they've never known a stranger. Everyone is a friend to them, people in and animals, which is great, Speaker 1  05:58 and that's what I love about my job, Michael, because I am, and you said at the start I'm working with animals, but predominantly it's the humans that engage my services, it's the humans that are looking for help and support with their animals, and so when any of my students or young and aspiring clinical behaviorists or trainers say to me, "Oh, I want to do this job because I love animals. I don't like people. I always say, well, you're going to be in the wrong job. You have to like humans as well, because they're the ones that really you're working with to help change their animals' behavior, and they pay the bills. Michael Hingson  06:36 Well, since you do work a lot with training animals and so on. Have you had any success at training politicians? I mean, there's an animal for you. Speaker 1  06:44 I have had all sorts of clients on my books, from the rich and famous to sportsmen and politicians, so I can't disclose names. However, what I will say is I have successfully used my effective consulting skills on humans to reframe, because actually, if we think about when they engage my services, usually it's because there's a fractured pet owner relationship. For example, you might have a dog that's lunging at other dogs, or you know, the cat that's attacking another cat in the household, and by the time they come to me, they're really frustrated. They're labeling their animals as naughty, and actually, my role is to take an investigative approach, look at all the evidence, and help the clients understand, you know, why the animals are doing what they're doing, what's the function, and usually we start to see that human mindset shift when they have that understanding, and that's incredibly powerful, because you know once we get that human understanding, the behavior change in animals then follows, so it really does begin with the insight in the humans. Michael Hingson  08:04 Really good point. I've seen a lot of people interacting with guide dogs, and some of them get very nervous, especially when they get lost or something isn't going exactly the way they want. When the reality is that nervousness translates to the dog, and the fact is that the dog gets stressed out because their person is stressed out, and I think there's a lot of truth to what the dog whisperer, Caesar Milano, says, is that it's that the dogs are looking for a pack leader, they want the humans to do it, but when some of these people get so nervous, they stress out the dogs, and that has a significant effect on the lifespan. A guiding is is very stressful, and the dogs take it very seriously and want to do a good job, and they want to know that they're doing a good job, and if you get stressed, Michael Hingson  08:59 it's a problem. Speaker 1  09:00 Absolutely, what I would say is it's more scientific in the sense that when we look at the evidence out there in terms of how our animals influence us and vice versa, it tends to be much more subtle. Michael Hingson  09:18 Yeah, Speaker 1  09:19 for example, animals do act as a stress buffering mechanism, for example, if we're feeling worried about something or unsettled, if we see our dog lying, you know, calmly by our feet, we're going to pick up on those cues, and that will help us settle, and there's a good amount of evidence, as you'll be aware, Michael, of, you know, how animals can lower our heart rates, our breathing rates, they can reduce our stress hormone levels, but what's interesting is that doesn't happen in isolation, and over time humans and their animals do fall into these shared rhythms, like you're talking about. So essentially, we are synchronizing things like our routine, our movement. Our emotional states, and so that synchrony does work both ways, and when to your point, as our stress levels rise or our routines become unstable, absolutely our animals will often reflect that, and it's not about leadership at all, it's actually about emotional, our emotional regulation, or inability to regulate that, exactly Michael Hingson  10:23 right, Speaker 1  10:24 or have stable routines, and you know, certainly we saw the impact animals had for us during the pandemic, you know, lots of people lost that social contact, they lost their structure, and so their animals became anchors for routine and emotional stability, so this also helps explain why researchers, as well as our lived experiences, show that attachment to our pets can rival or even exceed some of those that we form with people, and that also explains why when we look at grief, when we lose a pet, and you talked about your gorgeous Holland, and you know your previous guide dogs, you know that that loss of a pet can be as intense as you know when we lose a close friend and a partner. So, back to what you were saying, yes, there's lots of evidence to show heart variability synchronizes, you know, cortisol blood cortisol levels will synchronize, you know, but it's, it's more than sort of some of the popular culture would have us believe in terms of alpha and leader, and I think if there's one thing I could burst a bubble on, it would be around that notion about that the dog is trying to dominate us or take control, and the reason being is because it all comes down to some outdated and flawed research from the 1940s that was then attempted to replicate in the 70s, and as I said, the research design was deeply flawed. It was mixing captive balls from different groups together, so, of course, there's going to be fighting, and so I guess for anyone listening, I would like them to just be really aware that dominance isn't a personality trait, it simply describes a relationship between individuals in a specific context, so when your dog is sat next to you at home, they're not plotting to take over the household, they're not like, you know, Dr. Evil in Austin Powers, they're not trying to take over the world, they're when we see the behaviors like the chasing after the road runner, or the lead pulling after the neighbor's cat, or the growling when they're being touched for grooming, or when they're guarding objects, those behaviors are usually linked to fear or frustration, learning history, even pain, and so when we look through things with a dominance lens, that alpha lens, it attempts to explain animal behavior without actually helping the animal. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, so when we fish shift, I should say our focus to understanding what's actually driving that behavior, how is that environment, or how's the handling from that individual contributing or compounding the issues that people are coming to me to get help with? You know, what does the animal need to learn instead? Then we get actually better welfare outcomes and much more reliable behavior change done in a science-led, ethical, humane way. Michael Hingson  13:45 Well, I was talking about Squire chasing the Roadrunner. It is my, and it's always been my opinion that Squire was the first one to see that that that bird was injured, and I am absolutely certain that he would never have been able to catch the road runner if that road runner had been able to go at full speed, but the, but the bird had a broken leg, and we fixed it, you know, we taped it, we split it, and then the bird ran away, and Squire didn't, didn't follow it, but I think that there was a sense, and I'm still convinced to this day that that was the case, and I don't want my dogs to be afraid. My previous guide dog to Alamo, actually not even Africa, but going back to Roselle, who was with me in the World Trade Center, Roselle was afraid of thunder. Now she didn't start out being afraid of thunder, but we really didn't know how to deal with it, probably correctly, and she developed this phobia, so that she could even sense when a storm was coming before it got to us, and we worked to calm her down as much as we could, but she was our early warning system for. Storms, and you know, but that was also one of the reasons that I knew on september 11 that we were going, you know, that we didn't have to just rush out of the office like crazy people, because she wasn't reacting after the building was struck, she wasn't reacting with any kind of fear evidence at Speaker 2  15:24 all. Michael Hingson  15:24 Mostly she was yawning and going, "Who woke me up? You know, and, and the bottom line is that she didn't sense anything, and I wasn't smelling any smoke, and I knew that whatever was going on wasn't such an imminent emergency that we couldn't try to evacuate in an orderly way, and, and that's what happened, but I, you know, I have a question for you. How did all this start for you? So, tell us a little bit about the early Hanne growing up, and how did you get into the whole idea of dealing with animals and starting this whole process? Speaker 1  15:56 Well, partly stories like yours, fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Um, so as a child I, there's a big age gap between my brother and my sister and I. So I was the youngest, and I was always fascinated with human animal interactions anyway, but because I think my siblings, where they were so much older, my animals were really my constant companions, and so that's where the deep love of a range of species started, and I was very lucky in that I think because there was such an age gap and my brother and sister weren't around, my parents were sort of, yeah, you can have another rabbit, you can have a stick insect, and it was kind of just keep it quiet, and then I'd be busy with my animals, and then as I sort of grew up, became more aware, as you do, into your sort of preteens and then teens, was really interested in watching how people behaved around their pets, which comes back to some of the stuff you were saying earlier, doesn't it, and I became really curious as to why someone could describe themselves as an animal lover, yet use methods or make choices that clearly compromised the animal's welfare, so that really fascinated me, and I can't pinpoint it to a single defining moment, but certainly I wasn't fortunate to, unlike my students nowadays, because I also lecture, they can do what I do as a degree. When I was growing up, it was vet or very nursing, so it took a while before I could viably get onto the degrees and masters to specialize, but I think for me what continues to motivate, and I'll be 20 years in practice in 2026 is the, the impact, positive impact my role can have on the human animal relationship, in the sense that you know they can, they can come to me, and they're at the brink of despair, the clients, because they've maybe looked at the internet, they've asked well-meaning friends, they may have gone to other professionals, and nothing seems to be working. And actually, you know, it takes further exploration. I can detect stuff that might not be picked up before, because I'm taking like a detective approach, looking at medical history, looking at the owner reporting, asking questions, observing the animal, and all of that information can then lead me to determine, okay, what's going on, and how we approach it, and so when done robustly and systematically that shift in the relationship starts to improve, because they better understand one another, and when an animal starts to go, "Hey, you're listening to me, you're getting what I mean when I kind of do x, y, or z in terms of behavior. That's when the shift happens, and for me, the magic and what really motivates me doing this job day in day out is improving the human animal relationship. Michael Hingson  19:06 Was there any defining moment that caused you to say, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life, or was it just sort of a gradual thing? Speaker 1  19:17 Oh golly, I mean that for me it's it's a bit like, you know, if you ask something, somebody like an artist to do a painting, at the end of it, there's the finished picture, and for me, I liken it, it's like lots of little building blocks to get to that end picture. For me, the magic really is, is seeing a fractured relationship repair and be better than it was, and so there's been many, many moments over 20 years in my career where that's happened, and those glimmers, as I call them, of what I celebrate, and it's very easy for us all, isn't it, to have those negative ninny moments, those imposter sounds. Syndrome moments, and I hold on to all the reviews, or the little texts that I get when my clients go, "Hey, I walked past another dog, and my dog kept his call, you know, yay, you know, they're the things that drive me and motivate me to keep going, because some of the cases I work with are really heavy, you know, take quite a lot of emotional toll, and I guess that's the stuff that you know the every person doesn't see with clinical behaviorists, is that we do lay in bed at night worrying about other people and their animals. Michael Hingson  20:30 Yeah, I know what you're saying. Coincidentally, just this morning I was reading an article about people we lost in 2025 and of course, one of the people mentioned one of the trailblazers, as the New York Times put it, was Jane Goodall. Have did you ever meet her? Have you had any interactions with her? Because one of the things that they talked about was that she took a completely different approach to interacting with chimpanzees and truly developed a personal relationship. She named them, and she became accepted by them. That really was.. I don't want to say amazing, because I don't think that kind of thing is amazing, but that really just told me how much she obviously understood. Did you ever meet her, or get to deal with her at all? Speaker 1  21:20 I really wish that would have been amazing. Jane Goodall is one of the most inspiring people, you know, in my opinion, and I'm really glad you mentioned her, Michael, because she, her work really paved the way for us to understand back in the 70s, really, that animals have personalities. Michael Hingson  21:45 Yeah, Speaker 1  21:46 because it was, it was months and years of taking things really slowly, being really unintrusive, observing. It took many years for her to be accepted around the truth, because they can be really dangerous animals, and so, and that was a really good example, you know. I was saying earlier about taking things slowly and systematically, and she recognized that chimpanzees were individuals, they had different emotions, just like us, they had different personality types that didn't really change as they grew, and it was through her work, particularly with one called David Graybeard, that led to her sort of gaining more public awareness, and she had her critics, you know, at the time they thought she, oh Michael Hingson  22:35 sure, Speaker 1  22:36 she was a bit like Diane Posse, they thought she was some sort of crazy lady who was terribly anthropomorphic, and that wasn't the case at all. No, so you know it's it's real leaders in, in the field, like Jane Goodall and the Diane Fosses, that that has paved the way for the likes of me to then go, yes, our animals have emotions. It wasn't, you know, Darwin led the way in the 1800s with the first idea of this, but you know it's not that long ago that really we thought animals were just unthinking, you know, blobs that you know were incapable of feeling pain, and sadly even today in social media we see some awful advice given out to cat or dog owners about how you deal with problems in order to have a quick fix, you know, and that's not the case at all. So, yeah, I'm really happy you brought her up, because, yeah, amazing lady. Michael Hingson  23:35 Well, I don't remember exactly when it occurred, it was sometime when I was 10 or 11, sometime in the very early 60s. She came and lectured in the area where I grew up, in the Antelope Valley, and my parents and I did go to see her. I don't remember anything about the lecture, but it was.. I know it was.. it was interesting, and I wish I could remember more of it, but that was the only time that we were ever close to her, but it was, it was fascinating, and of course, knowing about her life and the things that she did, I absolutely understand and agree with you. When I worked, which I did for Guide Dogs for the Blind for six and a half years, we lived in Northern California, about seven miles from Guide Dogs for the Blind, and literally just down the street from the Marin Humane Society, which is one of the more famous and well-known organizations of its type in the United States, and talking to some of their people, they, they said, How so often it's not really training the animals that is what we're dealing with here, it's training the humans, and it is because it's the humans that really need to get a clue and understand that these animals have as much of a personality and as much knowledge to share. As we do, and are born with more instincts, and we could learn to listen to our own instincts, if we would observe these dogs a whole lot more, and these animals a whole lot more than we do. Now, I don't know about cats, but you know that's another story. Speaker 1  25:13 Yeah, yeah, we often like to label. Yeah, that's fascinating. That's super cool that you got to see her in the 60s, even if you can't remember what she said, that's really impressive. I remember Michael Hingson  25:28 doing it, but that was about that's about it, actually. Speaker 2  25:32 Yeah, wow, that's Michael Hingson  25:33 kind of fun. Yeah, if Speaker 3  25:38 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset community, Michael Hingson  26:11 but you know the fact is that animals really can contribute a whole lot more to our lives than we think, and we just need to be the ones to take the initiative and develop the relationships. I talk to people all the time about dogs, and I say that dogs, and I firmly believe, do love unconditionally, unless there's some horrible thing that happened to them that that affects their, their views, but dogs love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. The difference, though, between dogs and people is that dogs are more open to trust, and they want to develop that trusting relationship. And if we would learn to do that as well, it would be such a wonderful thing. Now it can be that you will like with human to human trust, you might find that somebody doesn't earn your trust. That's okay. Then you move on, but we need to learn to be more open to trust than we than we tend to be. Speaker 1  27:14 Yeah, absolutely. Really well said. And you know, in terms of how do we develop secure, healthy bonds between us and our animals. It's built on several things, and that includes predictability, responsiveness, and emotional safety. That's your trust bed, isn't it? And so one of the clearest findings that we have from attachment research is that animals cope better when they can predict how their humans going to respond. Michael Hingson  27:46 Yes, Speaker 1  27:47 and when their attempts at communication are noticed and make sense to the animals. So, for example, in everyday life, you know, this might look like your dog pausing or turning their head when we're reaching out to stroke them, or it might be the cat choosing to leave a stroke as you're attempting to reach out to their cheek, and how we recognize this as the human would be to go, "Oh, okay, I'm going to ease off, because clearly you know you're turning your head, you're lip licking, that's telling me you'd rather I stop trying to reach out to pet your head or the cat walking way, I'm going to allow you to do that pussy cat rather than follow you and try and pick you up and give you a cuddle. So when handlers respond in those ways to their animals responses, the animals learn very quickly, hey, my communication works, and then that understanding strengthens the animal owner relationship, and another thing that plays into that, which is what I'm always talking to clients about, is processing time plays an important role in building healthy, secure relations, because often animals need much longer to take in information or decide how to respond, particularly if they're feeling emotionally aroused, unsafe, or trying to learn something new. And when we rush them, and a real good example of this is some my clients will ask the dog to sit, and if the dog doesn't do it within a split second, they're going sit, sit, they're repeating the cue over and over again, and that unintentionally puts pressure rather than giving clarity to the dog, and it can then often lead to confusion and even frustration, and that's going to show up behaviorally, so for example, we may end up with the dog, then jumping up at the owner or grabbing the lead and ragging it. So, I always say, look, if we slow down, if we allow space for the animal to process what we're asking them to do, if we respond calmly and consistently to their subtle cues that they communicate through body language. And so on, animals begin to expect safety rather than threat from us, and that expectation therefore reduces things like stress. It supports learning, it makes behavior much more resilient, because the relationship itself is secure, and these are the same principles that sit at the heart of child-parent attachment, where there's predictability, there's responsive caregiving, and that helps the child feel safe enough to explore and learn. Michael Hingson  30:32 It's also just as relevant for any kind of teaming relationship, even within companies, and the true leaders of companies who catch on to these kinds of things and learn how to communicate and process to determine whether somebody is truly understanding what they're communicating or not is an extremely important thing, because the fact of the matter is none of this is overly magical, whether it is between human and animal or human and human, but we do need to recognize the values and what it really is is meaning when, for example, we don't react to someone not doing instantly what we say, which isn't the way to do it. Speaker 1  31:17 Absolutely, yeah, really good example using principles that we see in leadership, HR, you know, and that's why when they're recruiting, they spend so much time typically looking at personality types, how that's going to match with the team, you know, so yeah, really good point there, Michael, about leadership and the importance of that people centric approach, which I think, with you know, sadly, you know, not to go too political, we're seeing real crazy times Speaker 2  31:47 at the moment, Speaker 1  31:48 and a lack of true leadership with that empathetic, human-centric approach, whatever side of the political spectrum you sit on. Michael Hingson  31:57 Yeah, and it is, it's all over. I hope something will come and break that pattern and get people to recognize what really should work and what really does work well in your case, even when you walk into a home, what is it that you observe, or how do you determine how an animal feels for the first time when you come in and see them before you really even get a chance to talk with their people. Speaker 1  32:25 Yeah, that's a good question. Animals, you were talking about Brazil and thunder, and she pick up on, you know, atmospheric changes. We know that biometric changes are picked off on by many, many non-human animals, so because they communicate using a combination of sensory information, be it sense, sound, visual signaling. I can walk into a client's house and immediately pick up on something. So, I'll give you some real examples. I recently had a case with Dusty Gorgeous Cocker Spaniel, and I was called in because she had developed severe resource guarding, so she'd get really growly and snappy, and sometimes bite the owner when she'd taken something of theirs, and they were trying to take it off them. As soon as I walked into Dusty's home, I could smell her, I could smell her ears, and that led me to suspect straight away there's some sort of likely infection going on here, and so working collaboratively with the vet, as clinical animal behaviorists do, that was confirmed, and the level of pain she'd been experiencing turned out to be a significant, significant contributory factor in her case for guarding, because guarding of the items provided some form of emotional regulation, whereas you know from an outsider's perspective she might have just been labeled naughty and disobedient, which isn't the case at all. Another example is I'm always watching how an animal moves, or how the owner interacts with them. How the animal, therefore, responds in return. And I touched on, you know, predictability a moment ago. And many stress signs that our animals will give us are really subtle and often misinterpreted. So let's take zoomies, you know, when the dog goes crazy around the lounge, and they may be jumping all over the sofas, etc. or humping the visitor, you know, the leg when the person comes in. Frequently, that's labeled as over excitement, or even dominance. When in reality, these are really often indicators of stress or discomfort, and small details also matter, so for example, the holding of breath or an increased blink rate, turning away from an outstretched hand. You know, these are really kind of brief moments that can be missed, and yet they tell us a huge amount of information. About how that animal was feeling about that interaction at that moment in time, and more recently I had a couple of cats, different cat cases, but urinating around the home, you know, up toasters on beds and sofas and things like that, and when, because I work with clients all around the world, as well as the UK, I can't always physically be there in person, so I'm reviewing the footage, and they managed to capture video of the cats moving around their environment, and then also urinating in their litter tray, and straight away I could spot the position of the whiskers, the eye shape, the ear position, the tension in the muzzle, the posture, and when they're moving around, and these were consistently scoring high on something called the cat groom miss scale, and that's a validated pain assessment Michael Hingson  35:54 tool. Speaker 1  35:54 So all of that information provided further investigation for the bet, and again, medical conditions are identified, and clearly you've got learning occurring anyway. So, there's always the behavior modification side, but these are just with dusty in the cat examples showing how there's often some other stuff like medical bits and bobs that are compounding the issues as well. Often I might be in a situation where you know the dog is belching or they're gnawing at their paws or their franks. Now that in itself can indicate perhaps gustatory issues or skin problems, but also context is critical because that's if that's happening when I'm there it could also be a stress sign, yeah, because an unfamiliar person, me, is present, so I'm looking at patterns, and does that happen when visitors aren't there, and and so on, and so on. So I come back to what I said earlier, really, it's like a detective, you're looking at all the evidence and piecing that together, and that then helps us understand what function is that undesirable behavior serving, whether that's the cat, you know, urinating against the toaster, or the rabbit scratching or biting the human. Michael Hingson  37:14 Well, so I've mentioned Roselle, one of the things that I was told when I first met Roselle, was she likes to steal socks, and, and I found that to be true. She loved to steal them and hide them, and that was it. She never chewed them up, but it, it really was a game, and we, we found socks in very strange places, and she actually, a couple times, stole my wife's slippers, but again, she stole them, and she hid them, and it was, she, she was very proud of herself. She thought it was a fun game, and you know, we never reacted negatively to it, because clearly it wasn't a bad thing. She didn't ever chew them up, so we knew it wasn't a bad thing, and we just accepted it as a game. Speaker 1  38:06 Yeah, yeah, and you know, partly if you think about, you know, her breed and species, partly that could be cashing, you know, partly it's fulfilling an entertainment function, as you said, a game, so yeah, and that will come down to her learning history before she came to you, and so on. So, yeah, really lovely example. She sounds like a complete poppet. Oh, Michael Hingson  38:28 I've always described her as a pixie by any standard, but, but yeah, she was, she was a wonderful dog, and the bottom line was it was also how we reacted to her, because if we had started to react in a negative way, that would have introduced stress, and that wouldn't have been a good thing either. Speaker 1  38:50 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, your story is is remarkable, and you talked about her and fireworks, yet she was so steady on that day, so I wonder, yeah, and I was just wondering, Michael, if, if I can ask you, you know, what do you think helped Friselle remain so steady in those conditions where many humans were being overwhelmed, understandably, on that day in 911 Michael Hingson  39:19 Well, I, I'm sure this won't totally surprise you, but I spent a lot of time before september 11 learning all I could about the World Trade Center, including what to do in the case of an emergency, and so I think that probably the most significant thing was probably Roselle was was looking at me and how I reacted and recognizing the fact that we do work and did work well as a team, so I wasn't panicking, and that helped her focus as well. Speaker 1  39:55 Yeah, and you know that's a really good example where you talked about. Up getting to know the environment, and kind of practicing, you know, going through those drills of what to do in an emergency, because I'm always saying to clients, repetition, consistency is the mother of success, you know. So, my goodness, did that pay off dividends, and you keeping your cool head, and both of you helping each other, amazing. Michael Hingson  40:21 Yeah, you've spent a lot of time studying kind of the transitions that that people go through, parenthood, children, pregnancy, and so on. How do dogs react to that? What are.. what are you.. what do you observe, or.. and what would you advise about that? Speaker 1  40:41 It's really interesting, Michael, because actually there's very little research out there in terms of what happens when a new baby arrives, you know, what happens to the family dog, and that's why I've explored it, and what stood out with my research, which looked at expectant parents and the other group with the postpartum parents, is that once baby arrives, and this won't be a surprise to anyone with children, but you know parents are spending understandably all their time focused on the baby, so what immediately happens is there's less time interacting with dogs, and so the biggest drop tends to be in the quality and type of interactions that are occurring, for example, walking durations, walking frequency, and also play, and the ones that stay in terms of the interactions that remain the same are the low effort ones, the quick ones, which is like stroking the dog or giving them a treat, and also my research found that many parents describe having huge levels of guilt once the baby arrived, because you know they are aware that now their dog, which may have been their fur baby, you know, the kind of surrogate child before the real one arrived, now was sort of come down a peg or two, and also what came out of my research is there's often because new parents are knackered, let's be honest, broken sleep is that they can easily become frustrated and sometimes the dog becomes the one that the frustration is directed at, and then layered on to that, we also have physiological stress synchrony. We were talking about synchrony between ourselves and our dogs, and an example is that research has found that when a baby cries, our blood cortisol level rises in the parents, but it also rises in the family dogs. Blood cortisol levels also rise. So, what that shows is, oh my goodness, you know, there's a significant impact on the new baby that has on the dog's day-to-day life, and it might not be obvious, because the dog may just kind of plod to the bed and rest, but there's all this other stuff going on that might not be obvious. So, the key takeaway from my research is that, you know, if you're having a baby and you have a dog, you know absolutely baby prep your dog for that change that's going to come, you know, especially if your dog has any problem behaviors, you know, be it pulling on the lead, they don't like visitors, you know, build support systems, so in less qualified humane, ethical trainers and behaviorists, dog walkers, so we've got some sort of routine, or in less family support or friends to help out, so there's some predictability, there's some quality one to one time for the dog once baby comes, and all of that, along with really good management of the home environment through dog ate safe zones, etc. for the dog and the baby, that's going to protect the pet's welfare, but it's also going to reduce the risk of behavior problems escalating. Michael Hingson  44:05 The other kind of thing that I can imagine will happen, hopefully more than not, is that the dog will bond or work to develop a bond with the new baby in the family. Speaker 1  44:18 Absolutely, and that's one of the most important things about baby prepping is that if we create some sort of understanding. Okay, I'm being exposed, let's say gently to baby sounds whilst I'm licking on this long-lasting chew, and this is quite nice, hearing this baby cry, you know. This recording, or I have, I joke, I have like a lending library with fake babies, you know, and my clients may think I'm mad to start, and very quickly they're realizing actually it's really good to train my dog to go and station on their mat while I'm carrying a baby or pretending to change the nappy on this fake baby, and the dog's learning I can, I can go to my mat and sit and settle while you know my own is doing this. Yes, and you know, so if we create that sort of learning, it's, it's not then such a shock to the dog, and I even get my clients practicing walking with a pram and the dog, because the dog's got to learn to walk nicely with the pram, you know, and inevitably, you know, the owners are accidentally running over the dog's paws to start, or just simple things, like, oh my gosh, I hadn't even thought about how do I get out the house with the baby, the dog, and the pram. So, sometimes just, just practicing, like you said, about getting to know the environment at the Twin Towers, it's really important to practice these things for real world, Michael Hingson  45:36 and the reality is, even a dog with a big long tongue isn't going to drown a baby, Speaker 1  45:42 of course. You know, and we know, and we absolutely know that those little ones that grow up with animals, particularly dogs, have really strong guts, micro, you know, flora, and so it's, it's helpful, you know, if they're sort of around the animals. So clearly we just got to be sensible in terms of managing the interactions, but absolutely I'm a huge fan of nurturing those dog baby buns, and do you know what one of the best things is when the baby throws some of that food onto the floor from the highchair when they're weeding, that's that's a sure far way for that dog to learn to love that baby, Michael Hingson  46:20 yeah, you know, there's nothing wrong with a little bribe every so often. Speaker 1  46:24 Pennies from heaven, I call it. Michael Hingson  46:27 That's right. What is the one behavior that you wish that people would just get rid of and not not have anymore? Speaker 1  46:37 Well, I talked about earlier in terms of myth busting and the busting, the myth about our dogs wanting to take over the world, and us needing to be sort of leaders, and that's not the case at all. I think, for me, it's the importance about agency and understanding what do we, what do we mean by giving our animals agency, so for example, you know, if our animal has some sort of influence over what happens to them, rather than just being passive receivers of what we're telling them what to do, if we give them choice, behavioral science and lived experience shows that absolutely that reduces uncertainty, and we know that uncertainty is a major driver of stress, so if we look at zoological settings, there's a Copenhagen Zoo, for example, give their guinea pigs choice whether to be petted or not, and how they do that is they bring out a carrier and the guinea pigs know that if they hop in the carrot carrier, it means they're going to go and see the kids, sit on the kids' laps, and they'll be petted, and so you'll have guinea pigs that rush into the carrier, and then you've got other guinea pigs who go, "Heck, not today, and those ones that choose not to go in the carrier are simply not handled, and then I've got peers of mine who work with dolphins, and they will show the dolphin picture of two of the trainers, and they'll let the dolphin decide who do they want to work with in that session. So that's an example of giving a dog adult dolphin and guinea pigs agency. Another one is in the states, so in the Smithsonian National Zoo and Toledo Zoo, they've specifically designed exhibits where orangutans can, by choice, spray the visitors with water. So, basically, the orangutans push a button, and that button causes a shower to go all over the visitors on the other side of the enclosure, so that acts as a form of enrichment, and it also provides a really neat way for the visitors to feel like they're directly connecting with the animals, so in all of those examples stress-related behaviors actually drop because the animals have choice, and so if we apply that principle to our pets at home, you know, agency would look like allowing the family dog to choose which way to walk occasionally, or allowing them the time to stop and sniff, or offering choice between resting places, or letting our cat decide when they want the interaction to end, or I don't know, offering up a choice of different toys or different food stuffs, and seeing which way does your pet go, you know, what do they find motivating, which toy or which food stuff in that moment in time do they want, so these small choices tell animals that they have some sort of control over their environment, and so why that's so important, and why I'd love everyone to be aware of that, is behaviorally this really matters, because when animals are feeling sort of overridden or trapped, Michael Hingson  49:59 yeah. Speaker 1  50:00 They're much more likely to rely on coping strategies that include avoidance or shutdown or even escalating behaviors like grounding and biting, and conversely, when they experience agency, their learning improves, their emotional regulation becomes easier, and their behavior becomes more stable, so agency isn't about letting our animals run the household. It means it means we as humans are deliberately designing interactions so that the animals feel safe and they have appropriate choices, and that balance supports welfare and leads to much more reliable behavior change over time. Michael Hingson  50:43 I think that all too often we are the greatest contributors to stress in our pets' environments, like dogs, and so on. And I know one of the things that is emphasized when we get new guide dogs is guiding itself is extremely stressful. The dogs have been brought up to respect the job, to like to do the job, and they're absolutely committed to doing it as well as they can. Now, to keep that attitude up is our job, and one of the things that I've learned over the years, you know, people will come up, "Well, I want to pet your dog, and my response is, "No, don't pet the dog. Now, if there's time, however, I will stop, and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog, because the harness is the indicator that the dog is working, but dogs need to relax too, and so I know Alamo, especially, just loves it when the harness comes off, and he'd love to cheat more and visit with people, even when the harness is on, but he does understand the difference, and so I do work to try to make sure that when people want to pet the dog, if I have any time at all, I will stop and I'll take the harness off and say, "Now you can pet the dog. You need to understand why we're doing this, and that gives me the opportunity to explain it. Now, the only difference, the only time that's there's an exception to that, is if a child comes up and wants to pet the dog. I will always stop and take the harness off, because it doesn't matter. I want kids to grow up being comfortable around these dogs, and sometimes the parents will go, "Oh, that dog might bite, and all that, and I'll say, "No, the dog won't, and I'll always take the harness off for children. I may not always have the time to do it for adults, but I'll take the time for kids, because I want them to really understand that these dogs are not mean, and that they have a job to do, and so it gives me the opportunity to talk about that. Speaker 1  52:52 Yeah, that's great that you are promoting those fantastic child dog interactions, and you know what you're talking about is exactly what we've been discussing, in terms of that predictability, that consistency. You know, when the harness is off, you know that that gives the dog a clear signal. So, that's fantastic. Michael Hingson  53:13 Yeah, that's also part of it, that they know that when the harness is on, time to work, at least you're supposed to be serious anyway, no. Now, what? What's one thing that you wish dog owners would understand about cats and small animals that they tend not to pay attention to? Speaker 1  53:31 Yeah, you made me smile earlier, Michael, when you mentioned cats, because I was thinking about this. So, I guess you know, often cats and small animals are characterized as independent or aloof. Yeah, when in fact their communication styles are just maybe less obvious than the dog that's wackling the body, and you know, the tail, etc. And you know, looking really happy when the owner returns home, whereas the cat may sort of slink past, and we think, oh, okay, they're not that fast, but you know, their behavior is shaped by very different evolutionary pressures, and that's particularly around safety and conflict avoidance. So, when cats, for example, you know, act aloof or appear distant, it's much more about de-escalation, so research into feline social behavior shows that cats rely heavily on subtle signals like slow being blinking or head turns or ear position, choosing elevated resting spots to manage sort of social distance and reduce tension, and those behaviors are affiliative or calming, yet they're often missed by our ourselves or misinterpreted, and again, what seems like they're independent or aloof or distant is in reality them simply working hard to regulate proximity in ways that feel safe to them and. So you know, never feel offended if your cat moves away from you in the sofa to perch on a higher spot, because they're just managing their own comfort and control, and similarly, with rabbits or guinea pigs, they're a prey species, so their behavior is organized again differently, and they're neurologically wired to prioritize things like visibility or escape routes or control of space, so research consistently shows that when prey animals feel exposed or they're unable to run away, obviously stress responses are going to escalate quickly, and what people will therefore label as a rabbit, skittish, for example, is in fact a really logical response to feeling unsafe. Michael Hingson  55:47 Yeah, Speaker 1  55:47 so when we, when we stop looking at behavior through our human lens, which is what Jane Goodall and others have, you know, tried to help people understand, when we stop looking at it through human lens and consider what safety looks like for the animal. You know, welfare improves, owner animal relationships tend to strengthen. Michael Hingson  56:10 I don't know how Stitch figures out how to deal with a blind person, because all that link, blinking, and all that goes way over my head, of course. But even so, she's obviously figured it out, because we do have a good relationship, and she, as I've explained earlier, comes and yells at me when she wants to eat, and she'll come up and rub against me, and so on, but I think that overall she's figured out enough that, well, maybe he's a little bit different than some of the people I'm used to, so we figure it out, and we make it work, Speaker 1  56:42 absolutely. And do you know what cats are very clever in that, over the 1000s upon 1000s of years we've been around them, they've developed these unique vocalizations that really, that they don't do to other cats, but they do only to humans, which taps into our sort of caregiving responsibilities to feed them or be attentive, so yeah, brilliant example, when, when she's crying at you to have some sort of interaction or food, Michael Hingson  57:12 yeah. Tell me about your, your program. How does.. Speaker 1  57:17 oh gosh, so basically I'm drawn to sort of questions that people may have the answers to, but can't articulate, or everyday behaviors that we may take for granted. And an example of that might be, you know, why does it take so long for a dog to find the perfect spot to poo? You know, why they twirling around, and that's to do with the Earth's magnetic field. So, the how does series, I deliberately choose questions that sit at the intersection of curiosity and science. Some of the topics are more serious than others, but I do intentionally use some questions or look at some areas that are silly, for example, how does a dog fart, and why does some linger, and that might sound silly, but it's a brilliant entry point into physiology, digestion, dog behavior, and it kind of hooks people in, particularly the younger audiences, as you can imagine, and once they're engaged, then you can start to introduce real, real science without it feeling heavy, and another deciding factor, when I'm looking at subject matters, will be, you know, what's the science behind it? Is there robust research that can explain the science accurately without stripping it of nuance, and then you know, I might look at a different angle, like with my animals and history series, which is another one that I do, where it's still grounded in human animal interactions, but it's about historical moments involving animals, and what do those stories reveal about humans, and how we understood them, how we valued them or misunderstood them, and so on. So those two series, how does is the kind of science behind what animals do, and so on. And the animals in history is still approaching curiosity, but from a different angle. Michael Hingson  59:17 Is there one animal in history that really has changed how you think about animals that you maybe have talked about in your animal history series. Speaker 1  59:26 Gosh, I, at the last look, I think I've done about 67 so far of the animals in history, and there are some that really stick with me, and if I am allowed to have more than one, is that all right, Michael? Michael Hingson  59:43 Oh, sure. Speaker 1  59:44 Okay, so there's ones like Operation Acoustic Kitty, which is completely inhumane and unethical by today's standards, but back during the Cold War, they basically, the US researchers. Tried to create cat spies, and basically fitted them with microphones and listening devices within their bodies, and it was a bit barbaric, to say the least, but that experiment was scrapped. It wasn't very successful in the real world. The cats, when they were experimenting with them out on the street inevitably got run over or distracted. There's other experiments like attaching incendiary devices to bats in an attempt to help with the Second World War effort, which was unsuccessful because the bats didn't always do what the researchers hoped they would do, and then there's Project Pigeon, which is fascinating, and that's where researchers trained pigeons to guide missiles through pecking the screen, and that was scrapped because then Oppenheimer's bomb took over from that project, but you know these are some of the examples about how animals are drawn into human conflict strategy, even technical ambition. And then there's there's fascinating ones like Snowball, who was a Canadian cat, and her DNA was used to solve a crime in a murder case in 19 419 94 and basically it was the first time ever that animal forensics had been used in that way. So fundamentally it changed how we think about animals as part of our human environments, not just emotionally but evidentially, and then there's quirkier stories as well, but you know the stories that stand out include yours, Michael and Roselle. On that day, as I've said to you before, when we first met and chatted, you know that, that to me is just, I mean, it just gets me, your story, so yeah. Michael Hingson  1:02:04 So, what's next for you? Speaker 1  1:02:07 Golly, so there's always many plates spinning. Let's say I'm working on putting the Animals in History series into a book, so my plan is to produce a version of the video series into a form that would be of interest to young kids and adults who are interested in in the quirky and the curious, and then always stay curious, I guess. You know, I think curiosity matters. It's what drives my how does series. It's what interests me with the animals in history, and my articles that are right, my podcasts, etc. So, whether we're talking about humans, whether we're talking about non-human animals, it makes far more sense to pause and ask what might that individual individual be experiencing rather than rushing to explain or correct it, and I think if we're patient, if we're responsive, if we allow animals the time and humans that they need to cope in a world that's often crazy, and for animals largely designed by us, I think will be much better advocates for our animals and each other. So, I always think, stay curious. So, that's what I will stay as my mantra going forward. Michael Hingson  1:03:34 And it doesn't get better than that. And I hope that you stay curious. And I think curiosity is such a wonderful thing that that we should do a whole lot more than we do. Well, I want to thank you for being here with us. This has been fun. Can you believe we've been doing this over an hour? Oh gosh, I can all hold Speaker 1  1:03:53 on forever. So, oh, I'm not Michael Hingson  1:03:55 complaining, I'm not complaining. We'll have to do this again. Speaker 1  1:03:58 Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Well, Michael Hingson  1:04:00 this has been fun, and I want to thank all of you for watching and listening. Love to hear from you and hear what you think, but Hannah, for you, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Speaker 2  1:04:09 It's just my name, Hanne grice.com is my H A Michael Hingson  1:04:14 N N E, not A, Speaker 1  1:04:16 yeah, Danish way, so H A double N E, G G R I C e.com So I'm on the website. You can just Google my name, follow me on socials. If you have any questions, you have any ideas for the how does, or want me to explore a story for the animals in history, always open to suggestions as well as feedback. Michael Hingson  1:04:36 Cool. Well, and I hope all of you will give us some feedback. I'd love to hear from you, feel free to email me at Michael H I M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Please give us a five star rating wherever you're observing our podcast, but more important than a rating, give us a great review. We love reviews, and people who are interested in listening to the podcast. Just really appreciate people who have already heard the podcast reviewing it, so please give us a review, and whatever you do, if you know anyone who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, including you, Hannah, we'd love introductions to anyone that you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, and with that, again, I want to thank you, Hannah, for being here. This has been absolutely wonderful. Speaker 1  1:05:24 Thank you again, and take care, everyone listening. Michael Hingson  1:05:30 Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. Thank.

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Carlton Bricker reminds listeners to send for their photos of Lum and Abner before it's too late. Down in Pine Ridge, Lum has decided to order his statue. Today Lum…

In this week's episode, we offer 7 tips indie authors can use to help their audiobooks turn a profit on production costs. This coupon code will get you 25% off the ebooks in the Ghost Night series at my Payhip store: JUNENIGHT The coupon code is valid through July 13, 2026. So if you need a new ebook this summer, we've got you covered! TRANSCRIPT 00:00:00 Introduction and Writing Updates Hello, everyone. Welcome to Episode 309 of The Pulp Writer Show. My name is Jonathan Moeller. Today is June 26th, 2026 and today we are sharing seven tips for audiobook profitability for indie authors. Before we get to that, we will have Coupon of the Week and an update on my current writing, publishing, and audiobook projects. First up is Coupon of the Week and this week's coupon code will get you 25% off the ebooks in the Ghost Night series at my Payhip store. That code is JUNENIGHT. And as always, the coupon code and the links to my Payhip store will be available in the show notes for this episode. This coupon code will be valid through July the 13th, 2026. So if you need a new ebook series to read this summer, we have got you covered. Now let's have an update on my current writing, publishing, and audiobook projects. I am pleased to report I am on the second editing pass of Blade of Thieves. I am about 13% of the way through that. And so if all goes well, I think the book will be out after the 4th of July weekend/second week in July, if all goes well. I have a few real life things to do that might slow that down, but I am very, very keen to finally have this book out after the 4th of July weekend. After Blade of Thieves is published, my next project will be Cloak of Frost, the 15th book in the Cloak Mage series. I am 17,000 words into that and I am hoping that will be out in August, if all goes well. I have no audiobooks currently in production, but that will change next month because Brad Wills will be recording Blade of Thieves once it's done. Hollis McCarthy will be recording Cloak of Worlds and Leanne Woodward will be recording Dragon-Mage. So we'll go from having no audiobooks being worked on to a bunch being worked on all at once. Funny how things tend to bunch up like that. So that is where I'm at with my current writing and publishing and audiobook projects. 00:01:59 The Economics of Audiobook Production for Indie Authors [All money amounts mentioned are in USD.] Now today I want to talk about a very advanced level indie author topic, namely audiobook production and the economics of it. Recently there's been some controversy because ACX (which is Amazon's audiobook production platform) has been changing its royalty model and rolling out what they call synthetic voice, which is basically an AI generated voice. Some writers have been using it because it's a lot cheaper than a good human narrator, but the flip side is that not many people like listening to it and won't pay money for it. Admittedly, synthetic voice is not fundamentally a new technology. Text to speech has been around forever. Macs have had it since I believe 1984, back when 120 kilobytes of RAM was a lot. As a brief digression, I wish the term AI hadn't been bandied about so liberally. Before the public backlash began against generative AI and data centers, the term AI was trendy, so it got slapped on a lot of things that are actually wildly different than generative AI. I saw a post where someone was complaining about the locations in Starfield being AI generated, when in fact they're procedurally generated, which is something totally different. Anyway, synthetic voice is just a more advanced version of the text to speech technology that's been around since the early 1980s. The fear is that AI generated audiobooks will swamp the market and dominate most of ACX's payment model. Now, while that is a valid fear, I strongly suspect that it is not going to work out that way, given the hostility I have observed towards synthetic voices, especially in fiction. I think what'll happen is authors who use synthetic voice will save a lot of money by not paying a narrator, but then they won't actually make any money because no one will want to buy these machine voiced audiobooks. I have some basis for that because in the early 2020s, I experimented with making synthetic voice versions of my Silent Order science fiction series and putting them on YouTube. The overwhelming response was that people liked the story but hated the computer generated voice. It might be different for nonfiction. A romance novel with a synthetic voice would obviously be quite flat, but that wouldn't matter as much for a primer on tax law or agriculture or something similar. So there's a lot of uncertainty on whether or not audiobooks can still be profitable for indie authors. However, I suggest this is nothing new. Audiobooks have always been indie publishing on hard mode, partly because they're expensive to produce and partly because they're harder to sell than ebooks and sometimes even paperbacks. That said, I'm on my eighth year of self-publishing audiobooks and some of them have made back their production costs and turned a profit. So I thought it would share seven tips on how to have profitable self-published audiobooks. #1: Think long term. If you want your audiobooks to be profitable, you need to think in the long term. ACX has this program called Royalty Share where rather than pay a narrator, you and the narrator split the royalties on the audiobook for the next seven years and after those seven years are passed, you get all these subsequent royalties. I've never taken this option, but I cite it here because I think seven years is not an unreasonable amount of time for an audiobook to earn back its production cost. People always blanch a bit when I say that, but I've been doing self-published audiobooks for eight years now, so let's see how some of them have done. The Frostborn audiobooks, 100% of them have earned back their production cost. Of the 24 Ghosts books in audio, about the first 10 have earned back their production cost. For Cloak Mage, of the 12 Cloak Mage books currently in audio, about the first three and a half have earned back their production cost. For Dragonskull, of the nine Dragonskull books, the first three and a half have earned back their production cost. For Malison, of the four Malison books, they have 100% earned back their production cost. It helps that they're short. For The Shield War, of the six Shield War books, the first one has earned back its production costs, but I only started the series in 2023. The Linux Command Line Beginner's Guide (my one nonfiction book) has totally earned back its production cost. So I don't think seven years is an unreasonable length of time to earn back the production cost for an audiobook. That means you have to think long term, almost like a small business owner buying a new piece of equipment. Depending on the business, the owner might budget for the equipment making back what he paid for it in four or five years, or if he has to take out a loan to buy the equipment, he'll calculate how long it'll take to pay back that loan. Like for example, I just had to pay a lot of money to have these struts in my car fixed and I expect the garage owner carefully considered how much he would spend on his vehicle hoist since I believe a new vehicle hoist and installation typically costs between $7,000 and $12,000 and how long it would take him to make back that money. All successful small business owners have to think like this. Now this mindset is a bit tricky for indie authors because we often have a strong tendency to think in the short term, especially new indie authors who want their books to make a ton of money right now. But as I said above, audiobooks are self-publishing on hard mode, so you need to decide whether it is worth the investment and if you're comfortable waiting a few years to earn back the production cost over time. The reality is that if you are paying a professional narrator to create an audiobook, you're paying $200 per finished hour or above, which is a small business expense. So for that kind of money, you need to think about the audiobook like a small business owner. #2: Deductions First off, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice and I am not an accountant and this is not investment/financial advice. If you want financial/investment advice, you should talk to an accountant or financial planner properly certified with the tax laws of your state, province, and nation. If you want legal advice, you should talk to a lawyer licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. The way my writing business is set up, I can take the production cost of audiobooks as a deduction against my taxes. This initially was one of the reasons I got into self-published audiobooks in the first place way back in 2018. I realized that if I was going to have to pay the money in taxes anyway, I might as well spend some of it on audio production instead, since that way I'll at least get a revenue generating asset out of it. Other small businesses will sometimes do this when they approach the end of their fiscal year and realize they have more tax liability than expected, so it's probably time to invest in some new equipment or upgrades that they would need anyway. Like maybe the garage owner we mentioned earlier has a really good year so he decides it's a good time to spend that $12,000 on a new vehicle hoist so he doesn't have quite so high a tax bill at the end of the year. I once had someone tell me rather self-righteously that this was a tax dodge and therefore immoral, but that's ridiculous. [Transcriptionist's side note: I wish I had that person's level of unearned confidence. I'd use it for cliff diving or starting a library just for puppies and the weirdest, clumsiest orange cats. Literally anything else.] No less of an authority than Jesus Christ himself said that to render under Caesar what is Caesar. If Caesar says that audiobook book production is a deductible business expense, it is a deductible business expense. Business deductions are the government's way of saying, "spend this income on something that benefits the national economy or will take it as taxes." To a more immediate point, the IRS itself says you have the legal obligation to pay exactly the amount of taxes you owe, but there are also legal ways such as business deductions to reduce the amount of taxes you owe. Besides, no matter what you do, the government gets its cut anyway. At the end of the year, I have to file 1099s for the narrators because their payments are taxable income and every time one of the audiobooks sells, the government gets sales tax, the stores owe taxes on that income, and I owe taxes on the payment from the store. Uncle Sam has a lot of practice at getting his cut and he's very good at it. So depending on your business structure and the local tax laws where you live, audiobook production might be a deductible expense, which is very helpful on the financial side of it. #3: Promote the ebook. The easiest way I found to sell an audiobook is to have the audiobook of an ebook that sells well. Admittedly, this is a bit of a chicken and egg problem, isn't it? However, that can help you choose which titles to make into audiobooks. Like I mentioned above that Frostborn has paid back 100% of its production costs, and that's because it's my most popular series. It was easy for the audiobooks to sell well because the ebooks were selling well. By contrast, an ebook that sells more slowly will have a harder time selling audiobooks. One of the reasons I experimented with using synthetic voice on YouTube with the Silent Order series earlier in the 2020s was because I knew I would never make Silent Order into actual audiobooks because the series didn't sell well enough to merit it. So if you want your audiobook to sell, the easiest way to do it is to promote the ebook. If the ebook sells well enough, it will likely generate some audiobook sales as well. This can also help you determine whether or not you should even produce an audiobook of a particular ebook. If the ebook does not have strong sales, it is probably not a good idea to make an audiobook out of it. #4: Diversify We started out by talking about ACX, but ACX is not the only game in town. The other big audiobook distribution platform is INaudio, which is owned by Spotify. It was previously known as Findaway Voices, but then Spotify bought it and changed the name to INaudio. ACX will get your audiobook into Audible, Amazon, and Apple. INaudio will get your audiobook into every other platform: Google Play, Kobo, Storytel, Chirp, the library distributors, and a bunch of others. So if your audiobook is not exclusive to ACX, it's a good idea to use INaudio as well. That said, Google Play and Kobo now have direct upload for audiobooks and if your audiobook is not exclusive to ACX, it's a good idea to use the direct upload for Google Play and Kobo instead of relying on INaudio. There are a few significant advantages to this. First, you make a little bit more money since INaudio is not taking its distribution fee and the cumulative effect of that over time can be significant. Second, your audiobook will be eligible for Kobo Plus, which can generate extra revenue. I've had some of my best months on Kobo in 2026 thanks to Kobo Plus. Third and perhaps most importantly, you won't be completely dependent on INaudio because INaudio is frequently quite glitchy and in my frank and unbiased opinion, has gone downhill noticeably in quality since Spotify took over. Every single problem I've ever had with INaudio has come after Spotify bought Findaway and turned it into INaudio. I'm afraid that Spotify, like many other publicly traded corporations in the US, has the chronic problem of an upper management class who are buzzword prone MBA drones with an unhealthy enthusiasm for generative AI and indulging in self-destructive cost cutting and layoffs right before it's time to file quarterly reports. Very frequently, the QA process on INaudio will go berserk and declare that a book is AI generated and ineligible for distribution even when it's not. So direct upload to Google Play and Kobo avoids that problem. Because of these problems, another distributor called Author's Republic has been growing, but I haven't tried that out yet. Despite these problems, INaudio also gets you access to Chirp, which is our next bullet point. #5: Chirp Deals I said earlier that the best way to promote your audiobook is ebook promotion, but the one exception to that is Chirp. Chirp is run by BookBub, which is an email newsletter service that offers discounted ebooks to its subscribers. BookBub wanted to expand to audiobooks, but Audible very famously does not let indie authors control their prices and definitely doesn't let them do discounts. So to get around that slight problem, BookBub started its own audiobook store in the form of Chirp, which does let indie authors control their prices and therefore offer discounts. I've had some excellent results with Chirp deals over the years, usually with Child of the Ghost and Cloak of Dragons. In May, I had a Chirp deal with Dragonskull: Sword of the Squire, but since the dashboard on INaudio only updates every 30 days for Chirp, I'm not sure how it did yet. If you get a Chirp deal and you want to take a big swing with it, you can also set temporary discounts on the subsequent books in the series. For my earlier Chirp deals for Cloak of Dragons and Child of the Ghosts, the price for Cloak of Dragons was at $0.99 and I set the price of the subsequent two audiobooks at $2.99 each. I got good results from that and some of my best months on INaudio. For the recent Dragonskull deal, Sword of the Squire was at $0.99 and I temporarily set every other audiobook in the series at $2.99 on Chirp. It was the biggest swing I've taken with a Chip deal, so I'm curious to see how it plays out. #6: Direct sales It's a good idea to have a direct sales platform of some kind, whether it's Shopify or Payhip or Gumroad or a similar platform and offer direct sales of your audiobooks. There are numerous advantages to this. You can set your own price, which as we mentioned above, ACX does not let you do. You can very easily run sales and discounts. If you're a regular reader at the site, you know I do a different Coupon of the Week for my Payhip store every week and it's often for audiobooks. As I mentioned with the problems with INaudio, it provides a platform to get your audiobook to listeners even if the other stores are having technical problems. Sometimes ACX processing can take weeks and the site's past troubles sometimes stretched [it] into months. The difficulty is getting people to actually use the store. The term vendor lock-in means that the more a customer uses the platform, the less likely they are to switch. If someone has been building up their Kindle library or Audible library since 2009, they're unlikely to switch to a competitor. Most of my direct sales come from a combination of Coupon of the Week and new releases to people who don't like DRM. So having a direct sales platform is a long haul, but still worth doing. Besides, everything in audiobooks is a long haul. #7: Direct reader relationship via Patreon or a similar site. I've never done this myself so I don't have any specific tips, but I have seen some writers do it quite successfully. That said, you should only have a Patreon or a similar site if you're willing to put in the work. Readers are very unforgiving of a writer who does not live up to his or her Patreon obligations. However, if you include audiobooks as one of your patron tiers that can go a long way towards audiobook profitability. A regular Patreon type income can help fund regular audiobook production. Conclusion Audiobooks are indeed indie publishing on hard mode, but hopefully these tips will help increase the chances that your audiobooks will be profitable. Lastly, thanks to everyone who has listened to one of my audiobooks. So that's it for this week. Thanks for listening to The Pulp Writer Show. I hope you found the show useful. A reminder that you can listen to all the back episodes at https://thepulpwritershow.com, often with transcripts. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review on your podcasting platform of choice. Stay safe and stay healthy and see you all next week.

Listen to a provocative interview as Aurin Squire unveils the impact of media manipulation and the crumbling state of our Democracy. His new script at CATF is catching much attention. Don't miss his dark comedy!

This episode we have some excellent whiskey and pipe tobacco pairings! Specifically Old Charter with Sutliff Black Swan and Laphroaig 18 with Mac Baren Old Dark FiredAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Comedy on a SaturdayFirst, a look at the events of the day.Then, The Chase and Sanborn Hour with Don Ameche, originally broadcast  June 20, 1937, 89 years ago. Charlie McCarthy gets a lesson from a French tutor.  May Robson ("A grand old lady of the theatre") appears in scenes from, "The Old Lady Shows Her Medals." On Father's day, W. C. Fields remembers his father, a doctor who treated a man for yellow jaundice for years before learning he was a Chinaman.   Followed by The Lucky Strike Program starring Jack Benny, originally broadcast June 20, 1948, 78 years ago.  The program originates from Cleveland. Marilyn Maxwell sings, "Hooray For Love." The program's guest is Cleveland Indians pitcher Bob Feller. Bob Hope joins Jack and Bob Feller for a comedy routine.Then, X Minus One, originally broadcast June 20, 1957, 69 years ago, Inside Story.  A reporter dares to enter the secret enclave of those infected with Null-E Fever.  Finally, Lum and Abner, originally broadcast June 20, 1935, 91 years ago, Squire to be Arrested. Squire Skimp is very upset that he's been put out of business. Thanks to Debbie B. for supporting our podcast by using the Buy Me a Coffee function at http://classicradio.streamCheck out Professor Bees Digestive Aid at profbees.com and use my promo code WYATT to save 10% when you order! If you like what we do here, visit our friend Jay at http://radio.macinmind.com for great old-time radio shows 24 hours a day

Westerns and Crime on a FridayFirst,  a look at this day in History.Then, Gunsmoke starring William Conrad,  originally broadcast  June 19, 1954, 72 years ago, Going Bad.   Young Dave Robbins meets up with a "hard case." He's Luke Quiller and sure enough, murder follows upon murder!Followed by Frontier Town starring Reed Hadley, originally broadcast June 19, 1953, 73 years ago, Fort Disaster.  An old Army stockade, Fort Disaster, has been reopened to deal with The Dallas Kid.  Colonel Carpenter is shot and killed. Then, Have Gun Will Travel starring John Dehner, originally broadcast  June 19, 1960, 66 years ago, Too Solid Town.  Paladin travels to Lawrence, Kansas, for a reunion of his old cavalry outfit. One old soldier is seeking revenge by killing three men!Followed by Nick Carter Master Detective starring Lon Clark, originally broadcast  June 19, 1949, 77 years ago,  The Case of the Perfect Alibi.   A crook kills the prosecutor who sent his brother to the chair at the same time that he's talking to the Chief Of Police from one hundred and fifty miles away!Finally, Lum and Abner, originally broadcast June 19, 1935, 91 years ago, Squire to be arrested.   Dick Huddleston and Grandpappy Spears force Lum into action.  BONUS:  In 1972, radio legend Ken Deutsch had the opportunity to interview Moe Howard, who was born on this date in 1897.  I got a copy of the interview years ago and finally have the opportunity to share this rare interview with Moe, who talks about his life in the Three Stooges.  Moe passed away in 1975.Thanks to Bill B for supporting our podcast by using the Buy Me a Coffee function at http://classicradio.streamCheck out Professor Bees Digestive Aid at profbees.com and use my promo code WYATT to save 10% when you order! Find the Family Fallout Shelter Booklet Here: https://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/the_family_fallout_shelter_1959.pdfhttps://wardomatic.blogspot.com/2006/11/fallout-shelter-handbook-1962.html

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This is Derek Miller, Speaking on Business. Squire, a leading accounting and advisory firm serving the Mountain West, recently expanded through the acquisition of HintonBurdick. Northern Region Managing Partner Danny Barlow, joins us with more about the firm's continued growth and commitment to personalized client service. Danny Barlow: At Squire, accounting is the heart of what we do. We take the time to understand our clients' businesses, ensuring the financial services we offer are tailored to meet their unique needs and goals. But for us, it's not just about serving clients; it's about making a lasting impact in the communities where we live, work and play. That commitment to long-term relationships and personalized service is what made bringing HintonBurdick into the Squire family such a natural fit. This acquisition expands our presence across the Mountain West while bringing together two firms that share the same client-first mindset and dedication to their communities. By combining our teams, we're able to offer clients greater depth in audit, tax, advisory, technology and outsourced accounting services while continuing to deliver the personalized approach that has defined Squire for more than 50 years. To learn more about Squire, visit Squire.com. Derek Miller: By staying committed to personal relationships and community-focused service, Squire continues helping businesses across Utah and the Mountain West grow with confidence. I'm Derek Miller, with the Salt Lake Chamber, Speaking on Business. Originally aired: 6/18/26

21-letnia Libby Squire wracała do domu po spotkaniu ze znajomymi. Nigdy jednak do niego nie dotarła. Co wydarzyło się tamtej nocy i jaką rolę odegrał w tej sprawie polski wątek?-----☕Postaw mi kawkę: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://buycoffee.to/kryminalnehistorie⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Liam Squire was one of the most feared players in world rugby, he had an incredible ability to throw his body into contact with zero thought of self preservation. While that approach helped Liam Squire the player, it's taken a serious toll on the body of Liam Squire the man. He's had an endless amount of injuries throughout his career and is now left with serious hip pain, shoulder pain and knee pain as he moves into the next chapter of his life.In this Fan Favourite episode of What a Lad, Liam opens up about the full journey through rugby and life. From growing up in Tokoroa and finding his way into professional rugby, to becoming an All Black, dealing with injuries, stepping away from the 2019 Rugby World Cup and ultimately being forced into retirement.Some parts that stood out for me in this episode were…How quickly his rise from provincial rugby to becoming an All BlackDealing with the fame of becoming an All BlackWinning a Super Rugby title with the Highlanders and the culture that made that team specialWhy he never felt completely comfortable in the All Blacks environmentThe pressure and scrutiny leading into the 2019 Rugby World CupHis battles with injury and the mental toll of spending so much time on the sidelinesBeing told by a surgeon that if he wanted quality of life later on, it was time to retireHow he has adjusted to life after rugby and what retirement has really been likeThis episode was recorded back in 2021 but this conversation shows a side of him that most people have never seen. Honest, reflective and incredibly open, this is a fascinating insight into the highs and lows of professional rugby and the price that can come with giving everything to the game. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Carlton Bricker reminds listeners of the limited supply of photos of Lum and Abner, and how to send for one. Down in Pine Ridge Grandpap plays checkers with Abner, and…

Kenzie tells the completely bizarre story of a man in Lake Barrington who did everything he could think of to get rich. Chicago’s best morning radio show now has a podcast! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and remember that the conversation always lives on the Q101 Facebook page. Brian & Kenzie are live every morning from 6a-10a on Q101. Subscribe to our channel HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@Q101 Like Q101 on Facebook HERE: https://www.facebook.com/q101chicago Follow Q101 on Twitter HERE: https://twitter.com/Q101Chicago Follow Q101 on Instagram HERE: https://www.instagram.com/q101chicago/?hl=en Follow Q101 on TikTok HERE: https://www.tiktok.com/@q101chicago?lang=enSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Comedy on a Saturday First, a look at the events of the day.Then, The Lucky Strike Program starring Jack Benny, originally broadcast  June 6, 1954, 72 years ago, Jack Goes To Dallas.  The last show of the season. Jack is off to Dallas and the gang goes down to the airport to see him off.Followed by The Harold Peary Show, originally broadcast June 6, 1951, 75 years ago, Peabody's Sister Takes Over the Radio Station.  Stanley Peabody is leaving the radio station. His sister takes over, even though Harold thinks he should get the job. Then, The Great Gildersleeve starring Harold Peary, originally broadcast June 6, 1943, 83 years ago, The Wedding Shower.   A surprise shower for Leila. Leroy gets fired from Peavey's drug store...for punching a customer!Followed by Abbott and Costello, originally broadcast June 6, 1946, 80 years ago, Bud and Lou Need Some Dough. Lou loses his place in the script during the opening routine. Lou "needs some dough" to pay the rent. The boys are locked in their room until they can find $60, possibly by "kneading some dough."Finally, Lum and Abner, originally broadcast June 6, 1935, 91 years ago, Squire to Start Rival Theater.   Squire Skimp has threatened to open his own movie theatre since Lum and Abner won't take him in as a partner.Thanks to Debbie B. for supporting our podcast by using the Buy Me a Coffee function at http://classicradio.streamCheck out Professor Bees Digestive Aid at profbees.com and use my promo code WYATT to save 10% when you order! If you like what we do here, visit our friend Jay at http://radio.macinmind.com for great old-time radio shows 24 hours a day

Produced by Joseph Cottrell, Wayne Hall, Ken Fuller and Jeffrey Crecelius This week we welcomed bass maestro Miguel Falcão back onto the YMP, this time to talk about the bass that appears in Barry Plummer's photo set from Redan Recorders in February 1980. Chris shows off his new instrument to the camera so we have a great insight into his feelings, shortly after he received his customised Electra MPC bass. He seems rather pleased with it, as you can see in the photos I have included, appropriately watermarked, in the show notes for this week.I kick off the conversation by explaining what Yes were doing in Redan Recorders and why Barry Plummer's visit was fortuitous, at least for those of us interested in the history of the world's greatest progressive rock band.Miguel then takes us through all the details of the Electra bass, delving deeply into the weeds in the way we enjoy very much on the YMP. What was special about this bass guitar? Where and how did Chris use it? What happened to the instrument in the end? Please do add any other details you know about this remarkable bass in the comments below. Chris plays the Electra on 9012Live in 1984 The Rickenbacker takes a back seat Chris singing, playing and dancing, as always Chris demonstrates the Electra on the Starlicks video in 1990 A good close-up of the bass The internal setup with two slots for effects The Tempus Fugit video Uncredited, 1980 - Forgotten Yesterdays Paul Stradley Saturday, October 18, 1980 Hampton, Virginia Hampton Coliseum - Forgotten Yesterdays Paul Rogers Friday, July 22, 1994 Los Angeles, California Greek Theatre Brian King Wednesday, December 1, 1999 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania - Forgotten Yesterdays John Kuehne Sunday, May 2, 2004 Tampa, Florida - Forgotten Yesterdays Eduardo Paulo Wednesday, April 21, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada - Forgotten Yesterdays https://youtu.be/m4VwF-dpMlA?si=m8V6mFpNA6KgfnQB https://youtu.be/MeWn2oYyMFQ?si=9F2WNE_P3TSKOKwV Barry Plummer 2026 Calendar is still available! ORDER HERE Apply £11.00 off with the promo code wh4y4pk3 Enrich your Prog year with iconic images of Yes in the 1970s, taken by the legendary rock photographer, Barry Plummer. Enjoy 12 beautiful colour and black and white photographs of Yes in the studio and live, capturing the essence of the world's greatest progressive rock band. With this limited-edition calendar on your wall throughout 2026, you'll agree that Barry Plummer is, indeed, the Master of Images! (A flat shipping fee will be added at checkout depending on your location.) ORDER HERE Yes - The Tormato Story & Tales from Topographic Oceans - Yes Album Listening Guide Available now! YesMusicBooks.com YMP Patrons: Producers: Joseph Cottrell Wayne Hall Ken Fuller Jeffrey Crecelius Patrons: Aaron SteelmanSteve LuziettiLindAl Dell'AngeloTerence SadlerLobate ScarpBarry GorskyJohn ThomsonMark BaggsBill WhittakerSteve PerryMark James LangBob MartilottaThomas DeVriesMark SlaterBrian HarrisJohn ViolaMartin KjellbergBrian SullivanSteve RodeMichael HanderhanChris BandiniTim StannardMichael O'ConnorCraig EstenesSteve ScottMiguel FalcãoDave OwenChip PalmerPaul HailesDavidGuy DeRomePaul TomeiDavid HeydenSteve MossRachel HadawayDavid PannellGeoffrey MasonRobert NasirDavid WatkinsonHenrik AntonssonRobert VandiverDeclan LogueHogne Bø PettersenRonnie NeeleyDemSteven RoehrScott ColomboDoug CurranTodd DudleySimon BarrowFergus CubbageJohn HoldenStephen LambeFred BarringerDouglas CaldwellSteve DillGary BettsJohn CowanJamie McQuinnGeoff BailieRay Riethmeier Become a Patron!

Stuck on the sales treadmill using outdated tactics while buyers cut through the noise? The rules are changing fast—AI is raising the bar on what "good" looks like. In this episode, Dr. Philip Squire and Mike Sparling break down new research on how buyers want to be sold in 2026. You'll learn why sales success is now a values problem—not a technique problem—and how to master authenticity, client-centricity, proactive creativity, and tactful audacity. Discover the rise of "intellectual authenticity" and how to combine human insight with AI to avoid "AI slop" and elevate your sales game.

Horlicks: Imitations are made to resemble a thing, but no imitations can hold up to the quality of Horlicks. Accept no substitutes. Only the finest ingredients for the past 50…

Horlicks: Enjoy a breakfast treat. Just sprinkle powdered Horlicks on buttered toast, or in cereal. Now, let's see what's happening in Pine Ridge. Previously, the circus was sold to Squire…

Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/drgrande⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dr. Grande's book Harm Reduction: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Harm-Reduction-Todd-Grande-PhD/dp/1950057313⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Dr. Grande's book Psychology of Notorious Serial Killers: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Notorious-Serial-Killers-Intersection/dp/1950057259⁠ Check out Dr. Grande's merchandise ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://teespring.com/stores/dr-grandes-store⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

fWotD Episode 3301: Silverthrone Caldera Welcome to featured Wiki of the Day, your daily dose of knowledge from Wikipedia's finest articles.The featured article for Tuesday, 19 May 2026, is Silverthrone Caldera.The Silverthrone Caldera, also referred to as the Silverthrone Caldera Complex, is a volcano in the Range 2 Coast Land District of British Columbia, Canada. It lies within the Pacific Ranges of the Coast Mountains and reaches an elevation of 2,860 metres (9,380 feet), although some sources give the elevation as high as 3,160 m (10,370 ft). The caldera is about 25 by 20 kilometres (16 by 12 miles) in size and has been deeply eroded, resulting in the formation of rugged topography. Several glacial meltwater streams originating from the volcano flow through valleys in the Pacific Ranges; among these streams are the Pashleth, Selman and Catto creeks and the Kingcome and Wakeman rivers. The caldera contains several named mountains, including Mounts Somolenko, Overill, Kinch, Squire, Ardern and Calli, as well as Petrovsky Peak and Silverthrone Mountain.Volcanic rocks deposited by eruptions of the Silverthrone Caldera and associated vents include rhyolites, dacites, andesites and basaltic andesites. They are exposed in valleys, but at higher elevations they are largely buried under glacial ice of the 3,600 km2 (1,400 mi2) Ha-Iltzuk Icefield. These rocks comprise three geological units: a 750,000-year-old basal breccia unit, a 400,000-year-old unit of overlying lava flows and domes, and a less than 13,000-year-old series of lava flows and pyroclastic cones. Small magnitude, shallow earthquakes have been recorded near the volcano since 1980, but they have not been demonstrated to be magmatic in origin. The main potential hazard posed by future volcanism is to air traffic if explosive eruptions were to occur from the caldera.The Silverthrone Caldera was a source of obsidian for Indigenous peoples during the pre-contact era. Geological studies have been conducted at the volcano since at least the 1960s, but its very remote location has impeded detailed fieldwork. As a result, the eruptive history of the caldera is poorly known and its affinity to the Garibaldi Volcanic Belt remains unclear. The volcano was studied in the 1970s as a potential source of geothermal energy. It can be reached by helicopter or, with great difficulty, by trekking on foot through valleys.This recording reflects the Wikipedia text as of 01:05 UTC on Tuesday, 19 May 2026.For the full current version of the article, see Silverthrone Caldera on Wikipedia.This podcast uses content from Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License.Visit our archives at wikioftheday.com and subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.Follow us on Bluesky at @wikioftheday.com.Also check out Curmudgeon's Corner, a current events podcast.Until next time, I'm neural Justin.

Horlicks: There are many who can't drink milk or coffee. Try getting your good nourishment with Horlicks malted milk drink for breakfast. The circus business has been improving, but yesterday,…

This week, Thinking Borders, hosted by Marianna Karakoulaki (@Faloulah), returns as Marianna interviews Professor Vicki Squire (University of Warwick @vidkowiaksquire). In this episode Marianna and Professor Squire discuss migration, borders, normalisation of death, the ethical responsibilities of scholars, activism, her most recent book Making and Unmaking Global Citizenship, published by Edinburgh University Press and more. Thinking Global is affiliated with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠E-International Relations⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - the world's leading open access website for students and scholars of international politics. If you enjoy the output of E-International Relations, please consider a ⁠⁠donation⁠⁠.

Gut Check: Jacqueline Squire, MD, on Gastric Impacts of MCAS by Gastroenterology Learning Network

A young professional steps into leadership faster than expected and learns what really drives success. In this conversation, I sit down with Dana Prenger, a rising marketing manager at SmartSolve, who shares how growing up in a small town, competing in sports, and navigating college shaped her mindset around drive, resilience, and growth. You will hear how she turned uncertainty into clarity through programs like Life Design, how early career risks helped her step into leadership, and why she believes failure is simply a learning moment. We also explore SmartSolve's mission to create water-soluble packaging and reduce waste, showing how purpose-driven work can fuel motivation. This episode is a reminder that progress comes from consistent effort, not one defining moment, and that your mindset will shape how far you go. Highlights: 00:10 Discover how stepping into new opportunities before feeling ready builds real confidence 06:02 Learn how sports shape discipline, time management, and long-term success habits 10:00 Understand how exploring different paths helps you find the right career direction 20:00 See how real-world internships can define and accelerate your career path 34:36 Discover how early sales experience builds resilience and confidence under pressure 51:39 Learn how reframing failure as a learning opportunity changes how you grow and move forward Bottom of Form About the Guest: Dana Prenger is a Marketing Manager at SmartSolve, a zero-waste packaging technology company with a bold mission to make packaging no longer trash. In her mid-20s, Dana has quickly built a career in B2B marketing, contributing across content creation, social media, email campaigns, event marketing, video projects, website management, and brand storytelling. As SmartSolve celebrates its 10-year anniversary, she is grateful for the opportunity to wear many hats and help bring an innovative, sustainability-driven vision to life. She grew up in a small town in Ohio, where she learned the value of hard work, teamwork, and community. A three-sport athlete in high school, Dana was a member of the 2019 Ohio state basketball team and graduated as her class Salutatorian—experiences that shaped her competitive mindset and leadership style long before her professional career began. Dana earned a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with a specialization in Marketing from Bowling Green State University. During her time at BGSU, she was a Dean's Scholar, recipient of the Women in Business Leadership Scholarship, and an active member of the American Marketing Association. She was selected for the inaugural Ohio Export Internship Program, where she was matched with SmartSolve—an experience that ultimately launched her career with the company. Driven by curiosity and connection, Dana thrives in fast-paced environments where creativity meets strategy and marketing feels intentional and human. Outside of work, she loves to travel and has visited more than ten countries and counting. She is motivated by meaningful work, strong relationships, and conversations around marketing, sustainability, packaging innovation, and career growth. Ways to connect with Dana: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dana-prenger/ SmartSolve website: https://smartsolve.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I'm really excited to be here today. We've been waiting for this one for a while, and I'm glad we were finally able to do it. I found Dana Prenger online, and her boss and she decided to come on, and then we'll have to get her boss on, because then we want to find out the real truth about Dana. Dana Prenger  01:28 Yes, thanks, Michael, thanks. Michael Hingson  01:31 I'm such a big help, right? But Dana, Dana Prenger  01:35 I was debating on joining. I was like, we should have John, the president of smart solve, share about our story first, and I didn't feel worthy enough to share my story right away, but Michael was very reassuring, and it's like you got this let's give it a go. Michael Hingson  01:48 Yeah, you can tell us a little about smart solve. It's not going to affect having John on because he'll tell more of the story, and he'll tell it from his point of view. So I'm not too worried about that? Well, Dana. Dana is a marketing person. She graduated from Bowling Green State University. I didn't know it was a state university, Dana Prenger  02:10 yep, BGSU. A lot of people get confused with Bowling Green. They think of Kentucky, but northern Ohio, yeah, nice College in town. Oh, cool. Is it? How large is it? Pretty big. It's a d1 school. Michael Hingson  02:25 When I went to UC Irvine, out here in California, one of the reasons I went was that it was a small school. It was actually a new school. The year I was a freshman, was the first year they actually had a graduating class at UC Irvine, there were, like about 2500 2600 students. They had their first graduating class, and I went and visited it in 19, excuse me, in 2024 because when I left, they were just getting ready to start a phi, beta, Kappa chapter, and it was too late for me to become a member. And in 2023 the there was a, there's a magazine that generally is all about Sigma Pi Sigma, the physics honor society. And they discovered me, and they wanted to do an interview. And during the interview, as I love to put it, I shot off my mouth and said that, in fact, I was was going to the school when they were forming the phi, beta, Kappa chapter, but it was too late for me to join, because I was leaving. And one of the people who read that story was a physics professor who came to UC Irvine, basically the year I left, and she is still there. She's still a professor. And she called me and she said, I am the historian for the local mu chapter of Phi Beta, kappa, and we want you to come back and become an honorary member of Phi two. Well, a member of, I guess it'd be an honorary it's not an honorary member. I'm actually a member, but it's of later on, not at the time being a student. So anyway, I went back down and there are 32,000 undergrads at that campus. Now it's crazy. Dana Prenger  04:16 Wow. So cool to see the growth. Michael Hingson  04:18 Of course, UC Irvine or UCI, as they love to say. UCI actually stands for under construction indefinitely, because they're always building something there. Dana Prenger  04:30 It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. BGSU has around 4000 students, so it's cool that it's a big enough college, but they had really great professors and instructors where you didn't feel like just a number there, you got to know people by name. I was involved, yeah, and a lot of different student groups. One of the programs that was really cool was being a life design student ambassador. Michael Hingson  04:53 Ah, well, we'll have to talk about that. But I like, I like the size 4000 is plenty low. Large that's pretty cool. Well, tell us a little bit about you, the the the early Dana, growing up and all that. Where did you grow up? And tell us about some of that. Dana Prenger  05:10 Yeah, of course. I grew up in a small town, Minster, Ohio, so that town's a lot smaller than, Bg, about a square mile. Very good community. A lot of my family's from there. My mom's a school teacher at the school. So very great place to grow up, good traditions, and it's still close to Bowling Green, so it's an hour and a half drive away, so I still go home quite frequently and visit family and friends. Michael Hingson  05:36 So you went you went to school. What time were you Where did you come from? Where were you born? Dana Prenger  05:43 Yeah, born in a local hospital, right near Minster, Minster, Minster, Ohio. We have a lot of German heritage. We do a big Oktoberfest festival every year, which draws a lot of people to it. But besides that, a lot of corn fields. Grandpa's a farmer family. Michael Hingson  06:01 So are you a beer drinker? Dana Prenger  06:05 Yes, I am. I Michael Hingson  06:07 never did like the taste of beer, but that's okay. I did take three years of high school German, so maybe that counts for something. Yeah, there you go. Well, so you, you, you went to school. There you went to high school and all that, and then you decided to go to Bowling Green, huh? Dana Prenger  06:26 Yep, and that's the thing I liked about being in this from a small town, you got to do a lot of things. I was very much a multi tasker, or tried to be well rounded as I could be So, doing school, different clubs, sports. I was a three sport athlete, doing volleyball, basketball and track. So coming to BG, it was fun. I did like an intramural volleyball league. And, yeah, I chose BG. A lot of people, kind of from our area, went there. After being on campus, it did feel kind of like a second version of home. Michael Hingson  06:59 So Wow. So three sports, that's that's pretty cool. That kept you busy. Dana Prenger  07:05 Thanks, yes. And I graduated minster in 2021 so I'm not sure if you, I might be your youngest podcast guest you've had on, Michael. You might Michael Hingson  07:15 be well. You clearly have done well. So you graduated from school in minster in 2021 Dana Prenger  07:22 Yeah, I was born in 2000 to June of 2002 so yeah, nine months after 911 911 Michael Hingson  07:30 so for you, though you were at Bowling Green State four years, Dana Prenger  07:37 three years. Oh, you graduated a year early Michael Hingson  07:40 for you. Now, when you graduated, you were what second in your class? Dana Prenger  07:50 Yep, from Minster. Yep, I was a salutatorian, so had to give a speech at my high school graduation ceremony, Michael Hingson  07:57 and so, so what did you talk about as a as a speaker, as a salutatorian? Dana Prenger  08:05 I shared a story and equated kind of the grade schools reflecting on memories as a clock. So I was like, as the clock strikes one, and I would throw in a funny little memory from first grade to second to third, kind of going around until it was clock striking 12 as we're about to graduate. Michael Hingson  08:23 There you go. So you you had some experience at public speaking? Do you still do public speaking today? Dana Prenger  08:30 I've joined a few podcasts before, but being in marketing too, when students come or groups visit, smart solve, I'll do some speaking there, but not near as much speaking engagements or experience that you have well. Michael Hingson  08:48 So you, you went right into Bowling Green, and you decided right up front you were going to do marketing. Or what did you major in at first? Or did you always stick to one? Dana Prenger  08:59 I was debating between two things. So yeah, I liked marketing, like the business element. I had an older brother who went to BGSU as well. He was in the College of Business. But I also liked design. And in high school, I was on the yearbook committee. So I liked to take pictures, like to design the pages. So I tried out a few different classes before officially declaring my major. VCT is the program visual communication technology. I took a few classes in that but ultimately, after my first year, decided to go on with business and marketing as my specialization. Michael Hingson  09:37 Well. But even so, VCT is, in a sense, related to marketing, although I understand it's a specialty as well, correct? Dana Prenger  09:48 Yep, very much related into it work hand in hand. I'm actually hiring for a digital content coordinator right now, so it's cool to have somebody that I'm looking for. With more of that specialized experience Michael Hingson  10:04 and and are we looking at people from Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  10:08 Yep, it's a in person position. So looking at people around the area or willing to commute? Michael Hingson  10:15 Yeah, because otherwise, bringing somebody in from out of state or from a long way away, and paying moving expenses and all that. That's a bigger challenge. Dana Prenger  10:25 Yeah, and one of the things I was involved at at BGSU that I really loved this program, it was a new program they were implementing called Life Design. So basically, it's based off of the book and research that the Stanford Bill Burnett and Dave Evans did, designing your life, but basically saying that a lot of students come and come to college and don't know their major and are undecided and trying to figure out classes. So it's just a way to build community along the way, and it's a class for first year students to help them prototype different pathways and different avenues for their life. Michael Hingson  11:05 And so do they get a chance to look at different kinds of curriculum, different disciplines and so on? Dana Prenger  11:11 Yep, different curriculum, different careers, thinking, planning out your years. If you would go in this major, join this major, do this club, basically just getting people to think outside of the box, and prototype is a big word that they used in design different pathways that work for you. How's that working? Yeah, it was really great program. I was one of the first people to come as a freshman, to have that class, and then the class evolved and grew. My second year at BG, when I became the life design ambassador, I joined the class and was helping the first year students out, and the program continued to grow, continued to grow. We actually had a new building dedication, Jeffrey, Jeff and Jan, rad, Bill center for life design, so I got to be a part of the whole new building opening, grand ribbon cutting ceremony. And just cool to see something build up. Michael Hingson  12:10 Is it still going on? Dana Prenger  12:12 Yeah, still going on. And it's a big kind of differentiator of what BGSU has compared to other colleges across Yes, Michael Hingson  12:20 I can imagine that is pretty unique, but it really sounds like a great tool, because I think a lot of people aren't necessarily as ready, and I don't know whether as ready as is the right way to put it, but as ready to make a commitment as to what major or maybe this Is that people want to really look at options before they make a decision. But either way, it's great to have that kind of a program, Dana Prenger  12:47 and being a student ambassador just helped students get adjusted. Like this is the first time a lot of kids are living off on their own, and so just being there as a reference and resource for them some things they don't feel comfortable asking a professor even just about living in a dorm or college life. I was there for a group of students. Michael Hingson  13:08 Yeah, well, I remember going down to UC Irvine and starting and I didn't know a lot about a lot of the different things that would go on. But for us back in the day, as it were, you were just kind of thrust into it and you you could learn it and but again, I think that's one of the reasons I really liked the fact that it was a fairly small college or university at the time, and I remember I was put in the dorm with all of The athletes for the campus not being an athlete, but they had World Champion water polo team and other things like that. And people would occasionally pray play pranks on me, until the day came when I got to play a prank on them. Gained a lot of respect for that. So I was pretty cool. Dana Prenger  14:00 Are you going to share the prank or keep it a secret? Michael Hingson  14:03 Well, what happened was my my guide dog, my first guide dog, Squire, who's a golden retriever with a wicked sense of humor. Squire was in my room and I was next door with another freshman. We were trying to solve a physics problem. My master's is in physics. I went back into my room and there was no squire. Well, it turns out that they had stolen squire, and they hid him and and I kind of figured that part out, but I went through the dorm looking and of course, everybody was snickering and watching me. I went into the restroom and called him, and he didn't respond. He you know, I didn't hear him anywhere. I even opened the showers, and there was no response. And finally, one of the students who had seen all this happen came over and he said, Look, Squire is in the shower. Or and we went in and opened the door, and Squire comes right out, bouncing and having a good old time, having put it all over on me, as it were. But what we did was they didn't, you know, most all the students weren't paying attention to the fact that this guy was showing me where Squire was. We hit squire again, and I went out and got really ticked, saying, What did you guys do with my dog? I'm sure you took the dog, and everybody was laughing, always in the shower, and they went in the shower, and there's no dog because we hit him elsewhere. So, you know, we got back at him. It was kind of fun. And Squire made no noise when I was looking for him, what a horrible sense of humor. Dana Prenger  15:44 Golden Retrievers are great dogs. Michael Hingson  15:46 They are. Well, it was fun. I mean, you know, it was all in it was all in good fun, but still not the best thing to do to a guide dog. But that's okay. But the the jocks were, were were, were the major players of the campus. Actually, there's a great story. Every room had a phone in the dorm. And so in one of the women's dorms, one day, one of the women started getting some obscene phone calls from somebody, and she told her boyfriend about it, who was one of the jocks, and they, one day, they they told her, if you get him on the phone, this guy calls back, try to keep him on the phone and get somebody to let us know. And they, when this guy called, One day, she got word to her, her boyfriend, and all of the other jocks. They went through the entire phone book on campus in 10 minutes, dialing every number. Found three numbers that were busy, two of which were clearly not the right ones, because they were offices and all that. And so there was this one, and they all went over, knocked on this guy's door. Can you imagine all these big water polo and football players and all that went over and knocked on his door and they said, Hang up the phone and don't you ever do it again. It was great. I mean, teamwork, what? What teamwork? So, you know, they were all pretty neat guys. I gotta Dana Prenger  17:19 say, Yeah, being part of a team is just so good, and for building your character, like growing up being on basketball team, volleyball team, my basketball team actually made it to state in the year 2019, so you really do form a nice bond with them. And even now, as I'm in a different phase of life, your work, team, workplace, just really important, Michael Hingson  17:47 just really important too. Yeah. Well, if you were to describe your hometown with one word or whatever, how would you describe it? Dana Prenger  17:55 Ooh, that's a good one. I would say tradition, just because we do have so many traditions that bring the community together, or minster school motto is tradition of excellence. So that's what I would use. Michael Hingson  18:09 So that's pretty cool, though. But you had, you've had parents who who honored you, but who also, I'm sure, did a lot to teach you things and and help you grow up in the right way. Dana Prenger  18:26 Yes, yeah, a lot of thanks to both my parents, yeah, Mark and Jody. And then I had two siblings, two brothers, siblings and one sister. So family of six, wow, the second oldest, so I had older brother kind of paving the way me younger sister, and then a younger brother, who's a senior right now, and he's debating on where to go for college, and I think he's also going to be going to BGSU Michael Hingson  18:56 well, and I'll bet Older brother especially made sure that sister was treated well, Yep, yeah, brothers do that, right, what? That was fair. That's okay. Well, so you, you worked pretty hard at it all and, and, and had a lot of fun. So tell me more about your your whole time at college, getting marketing degrees and and what all that was like, and then how you ended up going to work and going to work for somebody close by. That must have been a joy. Dana Prenger  19:34 Yeah. So yeah, I loved marketing. And as I said, VCT, I was considering that, and I could have graduated like I did in three years with just marketing, or I could have stayed longer and did an international business specialization. I love traveling. I've been to 10 plus countries, and yeah, thought about doing a study abroad because that older brother of mine, he did do a study abroad in Strasbourg. Of France, and loved it, but instead, I came across this program called the Ohio export internship program. So basically, it's a program designed for small to mid size companies in the state of Ohio, and the state helps them out by going through the whole interview process for candidate, all the screening, teaching them adequate coursework, and then they'll pay for half of the interns wages for the summer. So in the spring, I did a three credit hour course. Had a group of 20 students in my cohort, and then all different colleges in the state of Ohio participated in this too. But then I could have been matched up with the business anywhere in the state of Ohio for my summer internship, summer of 2023 and I just so happened to get matched up with smart solve and that's how I came to know about them Michael Hingson  20:57 cool well, so having been a three sport person and all that. What do you find today from all of your sports experiences that helps you in your career and and how is that all stuck with you? Dana Prenger  21:15 Yeah, definitely the hard work and the grit and drive being able to focus your energy and really go when you have to go, yeah and yeah, managing your time effectively, like when I was in sports, you still had school, you still had other things you had to do in the evening. So being able to manage your time and get a lot of things done. Michael Hingson  21:42 So you you learned a lot about time management, having to juggle three sports and everything else that you were doing. And so how did all that work when you got to Bowling Green, though, did you? Did you have as many different kinds of activities you weren't doing three sports at Bowling Green, I presume? Yeah, no Dana Prenger  22:01 less sports and more trying to focus the academics and, like I said, what I wanted to do with my life. So, yeah, I spent a lot of time being the ambassador for life design. Still did sports just for enjoyment, fun. I did an intramural volleyball League. Yeah, I was involved in the American Marketing Association. Once I found out my true passion, I really liked marketing. Was involved with that, and I was also involved in through the College of Business Dakota Dean's Advisory Council on diversity and inclusion. Michael Hingson  22:37 What did you think about that? Dana Prenger  22:42 Yeah, it was really good for me to be a part of and opened my eyes to a lot of things, because my small hometown, though I love it, and we have great tradition, we are kind of a little bubble of not a ton of diversity. So being opened up to new, new perspectives and new things that was really beneficial. Michael Hingson  23:06 Well, certainly there were other small colleges around. Why did you specifically choose Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  23:13 Yeah, I think I wanted it was a perfect distance. I still wanted to be close to my family and close to home, but also I wanted to go out and experience on my own. If I chose a school too close to home, I would just be driving home, coming, eating dinner with my parents, and not really fully immersing into my independence. Michael Hingson  23:34 So so it was kind of just the ideal distance, if you will. Dana Prenger  23:42 And being like I said, a bigger college, so there is more opportunities sporting events and games, but they had it at an affordable price too, like going to football games my friends and I love to go watch and cheer on the Falcons, but it wasn't like a big school where we had to pay a lot for the tickets as well. Students got free tickets to all sporting events. So I enjoyed that. Michael Hingson  24:06 Oh, that's cool. How big was the stadium? Dana Prenger  24:10 Pretty big. I don't know the exact size, but yeah, it's right off the highway too. So as you drive on 75 through Ohio, you'll see the stadium in the road Michael Hingson  24:24 well, but you, but you enjoyed it. Do you still do any work or activities at Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  24:32 Yeah, so I'm living in BG right now, as I work at Smart solve, they do have a program called the regional network leaders, which tries to keep alumni engaged. So I joined that, and I'm on a team with seven other individuals just helping keep the alumni connected to the university. How's that working? It's good. It's good. Great to meet. With people, and just gives me something else to do besides work in the evenings. But it's not a huge time commitment. We meet about once a month, Michael Hingson  25:10 but it works out pretty well. Well, so you worked, you worked as a life design ambassador. Do you still do anything with that program today? Dana Prenger  25:24 No, not as much as I would like to. I think they are also in the progress, because I was one of the first people to graduate with having to keep us engaged and involved. I still am connected with a lot of them on LinkedIn, and sometimes one of the life design coaches will message me if a student has questions or wants to just have a quick prototype call or conversation to learn more about marketing or their field. Michael Hingson  25:53 You're you're available to help. Which is cool. It's neat to be able to to be a part of all of that. Yeah. Which is cool. So anyway, you you were part of the export internship program and so on, and that eventually got you connected with smart solve. What attracted you to specifically to smart solve? Why did you decide that that's what you, at least were were willing to explore? Dana Prenger  26:20 Yeah, I really liked smart solve. How strong we are with our core values and vision, mission and purpose statement. Most companies say these are our core values, but they're just words on the wall, and they don't get lived out each and every day. But here at Smart solve, we do something called the daily word of inspiration. So we have about 20 full time employees on our team, and we'll just have a calendar we rotate whose day it is for inspiration, and it's just a brief 15 minute meeting, how we start our day every day. And you can share a personal life story. You can share a Bible verse, any watch a video, motivational video, anything you want to give for your inspiration. And then we start our day with word of prayer, optional. Word of prayer. Michael Hingson  27:13 Well, that's pretty cool, and certainly that's a lot of commitment. I was going to ask, why you feel that the whole idea of smart solving what it's doing generates so many important values, but it's pretty clear why that's the case. Dana Prenger  27:31 Yeah, the core values are character, drive, innovation, joy, humility and growth. All right, it's really cool to hear those lived out, and you can see our team members each embody it smart. Solve is a faith based company, but we don't discriminate or only hire people of the same faith. In fact, not everybody's Christian that works here, but we are open about it because we want people to be comfortable about it, or be knowing that we do have that optional daily prayer every day Michael Hingson  28:07 well, and I think there's value in that. I mean, it's, I think, important to recognize that there are a lot of different religions in the world. And the fact is, if you really study most religions, they all pretty much essentially end up going to the same place, and they all believe in the same basic rules anyway, which is, which is pretty important, which is, which is kind of good. Well, where did the term or the title of the company, smart solves come from? Dana Prenger  28:38 Yeah. So John, he's our current CEO, co founder of smart solve. He smart solve. He calls himself intrapreneur, because smart solve was under CMC group, which is they had a bunch of different businesses. One of their main things was supplying labels, any and all kind of labels. And this is kind of the evolution story of smart salt, water salt. One of the customers was like, our labels are great, but it would be nice if they could just dissolve or wash away, because it was an application in the back of a kitchen. How you have, like, containers, the plastic containers you have to label food days of the week and expiration dates for food safety loss. But when they were putting the containers in the dishwasher, after trying to, like, peel or scrub the labels off, there would still be adhesive, sticky residue on it. Yeah. So, so, yeah, they developed water soluble label. And so, yeah, a label that can dissolve and wash away. So day mark still sells water soluble labels to food rotation business, but John was an intern at that time and was like, I think there's a much bigger. Market for water soluble materials, besides just label for food rotation so he can, they allowed him to take that idea and run with it. So smart solve is specifically water soluble materials. We sell just water soluble paper that dissolves the labels and then also pioneering water soluble, flexible packaging, so power stock applications Michael Hingson  30:27 I remember many years ago, and I still don't know how they knew it, but I got a package in the mail and it had popcorn in it, you know, the shipping stuff, and somebody said, Oh, this is that water soluble popcorn. If you put it in water, it'll it'll melt. And I was going, No. And sure enough, it was, I don't know what visually was the clue that that was water soluble, but it was, Dana Prenger  30:58 yeah, so our company, smart solves vision is to make packaging no longer trash. We realize the increased amount of plastic packaging, or just any packaging unnecessary consumption going on in the world today. So having an avenue or a smart solution of how to solve the problem, Michael Hingson  31:21 well, you can always come up with a new kind of straw that everybody can use, that they if they throw it away, it's not going to fill the world full of plastic. That's another story. Dana Prenger  31:35 Yeah. But in microplastics, to the increasing research and studies how microplastics are impacting human health and the environment. One of the fun facts we like to share is, well, not fun fact, but sad fact that by 2050 they project that plastic in the ocean will outweigh fish in the ocean. Michael Hingson  32:04 I hadn't heard that one, but I'm not surprised which it's so unfortunate. Dana Prenger  32:09 Yeah, great garbage patches of just waste forming out in the ocean. Michael Hingson  32:15 Is there a way, has anybody looked at the fact that, yeah, there's a lot of trash out there and so on, and it's great to come up with trash that won't be trash that will dissolve. But what do you do with all the stuff that's there? Has anybody been working at all on finding ways to dissolve that stuff as well? Dana Prenger  32:35 Yeah, I think that's harder, because it's already all out in the ocean, but there are efforts and people who go out and try to collect it, but then it's like, once we take it out of the ocean, where do we put it, just into massive landfill areas? Well, that's Michael Hingson  32:51 why I was wondering if there is some sort of a chemical process that could be introduced that would dissolve a lot of that material, rather than trying to collect it and take it somewhere, but I realize it's a much more of a significant challenge to do, because you don't want to hurt the fish and you don't want to hurt the ocean. But nobody has come up with a way to just dissolve all that plastic Dana Prenger  33:15 and stuff yet. Yeah, and our material is non toxic to fish, so it's we don't want people to we wouldn't say, just throw it in the ocean, but if it would end up litter becoming there, it would dissolve. Be safer fish. There's multiple end of life avenues for smart solves packaging, which is, yeah, flushable too. So some customers of ours are like toilet bowl cleaner cleaners or feminine care tampon packages that is flushable, so you can just flush the packaging down the toilet Michael Hingson  33:49 right, which, you know, and all of that is very important, but it still seems to me that hopefully somebody someday will figure out a way to dissolve All the stuff that's out in the ocean, yeah? Because I think collecting it is never going to happen as fast as it gets thrown in the ocean in the first place, Dana Prenger  34:09 yeah, especially in different countries around the world where there's not as adequate systems set up for landfills or recycling and waste is just much more incremental. Michael Hingson  34:22 So when you graduated and you started at Smart solves full time, what did you do? Dana Prenger  34:31 Yeah, so, actually, so the Ohio export internship program, I was a full time intern for the summer of 2023, okay, and then I was finishing my final year at school at BGSU, but they offered me to stay working part time. So I did work part time at Smart solve. My senior year of BGSU, I was a sales development rep, so business development, I had to do a lot of cold calling, so you just pick up the phone try to call people. So tell them about smart solve and so, yeah, I did that until I graduated in May, and then they kind of knew that they wanted more marketing support, and I liked marketing better than the sales prospecting. Sales, yeah, so they created a position for me, marketing coordinator, what was Michael Hingson  35:22 it like selling smart solve did you find that there were a lot of people who were very pessimistic or skeptical about what it could do? Or were you able to demonstrate pretty, pretty easily that in reality, sports fans it works? Dana Prenger  35:38 Yeah, I think smart solve products were easier than most things to sell and communicate about because, like we said, it really is a product that is better for people, better for the planet. I said our core values earlier in our vision, but our mission statement is enabling people to better care for the planet by pioneering Zero Waste packaging technologies, so smart solves. Big slogan is zero waste, zero hassle, zero hassle in the consumer. So it's cool to share that with prospects, and they would be more receptive, I feel like, than selling products that people don't necessarily need or want, but still in any industry, no matter how cool the product you have, when you're cold calling people on the phone, you're going to get some of those people that are like, how did you get my number? Or I don't want to talk, or just denies and ends the phone on you. So yeah. Well, that happened a lot of character building, doing that. Michael Hingson  36:38 I experience it oftentimes today, looking for speaking opportunities, even so, same concept, yep, and I've been selling my whole life, so I'm I'm fine when there are objections, when I at least there's a lot of truth to the to the fact when I at least get an objection, at least I can then go off and deal with it, but the people who just shut you down and you don't even get the opportunity to deal with the objection. That's a different story. Dana Prenger  37:06 Yeah, it really does. Michael Hingson  37:07 So was John a chemist? Or how did he develop Dana Prenger  37:11 all of this? Yeah, so John had a team of like, independent contractors that he would work with, and also just some of the knowledge with the water soluble label coming from CMC, but yeah, we have a lot of different team members now, research chemist employees that helped bring this product to life. And one of the cool things is doing a new product launch. So all of our typical water soluble materials we have today you can still buy, but we just now launched a new product called Pure nil zero, which is a completely plastic free, 100% bio based packaging substrate solution Michael Hingson  37:58 is packaging constructed like that, more are less stringent or sturdy than the more traditional kinds of packaging. Or is that something that you've been able to overcome and it's not any less durable? Dana Prenger  38:16 Yeah, it depends. It all depends on what you're trying to package in it. Yeah, it won't be as strong as plastic, but a lot of customers will use it for, like, powdered solutions. So obviously, if you have, like, liquid hand soap, you can't put that in our package, or it will start to break apart. But there's a lot of like, travel and convenience powdered packets that work great in our material. And the thing about pure no which is this new product, it is approved for direct food contact. So our other packaging is more agricultural, personal care, laundry, dish, a lot of those applications, this new product is approved for direct food packaging. So say you would have a powder drink, pack, mix, instant coffee, and eventually we want to get into more snack packaging, but there becomes certain limitations with oxygen and moisture barrier, Michael Hingson  39:12 yeah, well, you know, but that's still, it's it is really fascinating to hear about this, though, because there's, there's so much that that goes into it, it's really kind of fascinating to to see. Do you have customers all over or mainly in Ohio or what? Dana Prenger  39:33 Yeah, we do have customers all over the world. In fact, a lot in the European, European union, union that area, a few customers in the UK, since sustainability, new laws are happening all over. Michael Hingson  39:49 So you recently became the marketing manager. Tell us about that. Yeah. Dana Prenger  39:54 So yeah. I was very, very rapid upward marketing coordinator. For a while, and then just the end of this year, I got the promotion to Marketing Manager, which is great because I yeah, thank you. Get to manage content creators, to have somebody that creates blogs for us, somebody that helps with video support, especially because the water soluble material, it is so cool to see it, dissolve yourself. So yeah, doing a lot of video creation, and then, as I mentioned earlier, we're hiring for a digital content coordinator, a full time in office role. Michael Hingson  40:34 So are other companies doing the same kinds of things that smart solve does? Dana Prenger  40:39 There's a few, not a ton, but there's other bio based solutions. So for example, one company is using seaweed to make packaging, and there's other bio based materials, but not many water soluble packaging. Michael Hingson  40:57 So what makes smart solve unique? Dana Prenger  41:00 Yeah, we are unique for the ability to help you come to market with it. Our materials printable too. So some of the other like plastic PVA based, say laundry packs or dish packs, it's that plastic ours. You can print on it so you can have certain branding or safety warning instructions. Remember the challenge few years back when kids were trying to eat Tide Pods? We say, how different would it be if you could have had a big warning logo or image on the pod itself for them not to consume? Michael Hingson  41:38 Yeah, well, that's of course, the issue is, will they really pay attention to it or not? Dana Prenger  41:45 Yeah, also true, but we do think there's a good branding perspective too. Just to have brand on it, have instructions. We get. Our packaging is a little bit more expensive than just plastic and traditional uses, but we try to show our benefit by being better for the planet, better for the environment, and you do get a lot of good marketing. ROI, some of our customers have said using the materials and videos and being able to make a lot of sustainable claims has helped their company Michael Hingson  42:21 as a whole. So what kind of goals do you basically have as the marketing manager at Smart solve for what you're looking to do over the next few years? Dana Prenger  42:31 Yeah, one of my big grows goals is just growing, growing our followers, growing our reach. I feel like not a lot of people know about smart solve or know about our materials. So we have a LinkedIn page, since we are a B to B business, we also have Facebook and Instagram, but LinkedIn is our primary social that I'm looking to grow. So I think I shared with you smart solves LinkedIn profile, if you want to include that, or if any of the listeners today want to give us a follow, I'd really appreciate it. Michael Hingson  43:03 Well, absolutely that makes sense to do. Dana Prenger  43:07 Well also just increasing website. I help add new pages on our website, increasing our web visitors, new traffic, and creating more leads and sales qualified opportunities for our sales team, Michael Hingson  43:21 so dealing with diversity and and such, what do you do to make sure that your materials are accessible for people who don't necessarily read the print or who aren't going to be able to see pictures on the websites and so on. Do you have you all done a lot with that yet? Dana Prenger  43:42 Yeah, we're getting into improving and open to recommendations and suggestions. A lot of with the package itself, we leave up to the individual brands who sure have the product, because we're just the packaging supplier, not actually the end brand that uses it, but yeah, our website, I we use a site to do that, trying to become more accessible. There's so many ways to learn and do it, so, yeah, Michael Hingson  44:15 well, but it makes sense to do so with all the sports and stuff background that you've had, and we talked about this a little bit already, but what lessons from sports and leadership and all of your experiences have translated most into what you're doing today? Dana Prenger  44:37 Yes, I would say I'll tie it back to drive that one of our core values at Smart solve, and just as an athlete, having to really drive, whether that be your mental state, getting in the right mindset before a game or big competition meet, you. And just putting your effort into your skill to perfect it Michael Hingson  45:06 well, and an important thing to do by any standard. So, you know, a lot of people have jobs, they have worked in various places, they've matured and so on, but a lot of times there's kind of a defining moment that shows them that what they're doing is really what they wanted to do and so on. Do you have a defining moment like that that said this is really it? Dana Prenger  45:37 Yeah, that's a good question. And I think life is a journey, and there's always going to be small moments throughout I haven't had one big knock me off my feet moment that's shaped everything, but more kind of collectively built up small moments, small hurdles, small challenges that's got me where I am Today, any specific challenge that comes to mind, yeah, I would say. I would say, just going through college and yeah, figuring out my path and different setbacks along the way, throughout, trying to figure out my major and things and one of a small, funny setback, but not that big of one. I mentioned it as I was 16 years old, going to get my driver's license from sports. I had an injury and sprained my ankle, so I couldn't walk at the time, but I really wanted to get my driver's license, and it was my left foot, so not my right foot. So I my parents, the car that we had was a minivan with all my siblings, so Driver's Ed test, I'm pull up in this minivan, and I didn't want to let that setback delay me from passing my driver's test, so I had my crutches, crutched out, put my crutch in the back of the car, and then drove, using my right foot to pass my driver's test. Michael Hingson  47:10 And you passed your test, huh? Yes, and you did well on the written part as well, yep. Well, all I have to say is I think you should come out here to Victorville and spend a little bit of time the way people drive out here is crazy. I still submit that they ought to let me have a license, because I am sure that the way I would drive is every bit as good as the way people drive in Victorville right now. Wow, I don't see the problem myself. Dana Prenger  47:40 Yeah, and it's crazy. With innovation, the new things coming up, like nowadays, the autonomous vehicles, I'm curious to see in the next years how that will impact driving. When I am older and have children, when will they have to get their driver's test like that? Or there's some bold suggestions that say in many years to come, you won't have to drive a car. Michael Hingson  48:07 Well, I, in all seriousness, am really of the opinion that it will be great when autonomous vehicles are really as stable and as foolproof as they ought to be, because I think that we really do need to take driving out of the hands of drivers. It's just too many people to do too many crazy things on the road. The reality is that for blind people, and it's not going to be in prime time, certainly in the very near future, but the National Federation of the Blind challenged private universities and companies to develop a car a blind person could drive, and I don't mean an autonomous vehicle, but literally one that would provide the information so that a blind person could drive it just like a sighted person. And if you really look at driving, what is driving and why is it that blind people can't do it well, the answer is, because we don't have a way to get the information in as timely and as functional a way as sighted drivers do with eyesight. And the the people who realize that actually developed a vehicle that a blind person could drive. If you go visit the website of the National Federation of the Blind nfb.org, and search for Blind Driver Challenge, you can actually see a video of a blind man driving a vehicle around the Daytona Speedway right before the 2011 Rolex 24 race. Wow, and he wasn't driving it with people communicating with him through walkie talkies or anything like that, the car was literally transmitting the information to him that allowed him to drive the vehicle, drive through obstacle courses and do a variety of other things, pass a vehicle and so many other things. Because the fact is, today, the technology exists to provide that information to blind people, but it's not ready for prime time, and probably won't be, but autonomous vehicles are coming, and I really am looking forward to the time that they really work and work well, because they're going to make life a whole lot better for everyone. And I'm serious when I say taking the hand, the driving out of the hands of drivers, is pretty important to look at, yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how all that goes. So we've been talking about drive why other why? Else wise, did you really want to use Drive and make that kind of a theme for what we're talking about today? Dana Prenger  50:48 Yeah, I think drive just reflects the path that people have for life. And drive you always want to keep going being a goal oriented, focused person. There's a lot of things, and other people do experience many setbacks. And what I've learned from your story as well. When trouble would come your way, you didn't just stop. You kept moving, kept driving in a direction. Sometimes you might not always get from point A to point B. You might have to do a little bit of a detour in the journey of the drive, but yeah, that's kind of why I thought drive would be a good conversation topic word for today's podcast. Michael Hingson  51:29 But the reality is that that you can succeed. I tell people all the time that I reject the concept of the term fail, because if you fail, that's kind of an end all. You just, you just screwed up. Well, you didn't screw up. The issue isn't failure. The issue is what do you learn from it? And the issue is how you you move forward. And so I've learned that in reality, when things don't go right, I'm my own best teacher. I'm the one that has to take that information and internalize it and figure out how to move forward, people can suggest people can help. And I think that's important. But for me, personally, and for every individual on the planet, ultimately, we have to internalize it and make it succeed, which is, I think, so very important. Dana Prenger  52:19 Yeah, connecting some of those points is what we would talk about in life design too, because students would come and if they wouldn't pass a certain class or wouldn't do a certain thing, they would see it as a failure. And it's reframing failure and redefining it that, yeah, it's not, in fact, a failure, but a learning opportunity and experience Michael Hingson  52:41 it is. It's a growth opportunity by any standard, and that is something that we all really need to work on, because failure just isn't isn't fair and it isn't right, and we've got to get away from thinking that it is, Dana Prenger  52:56 and even reframing your experiences or statements you choose to say and think and believe about yourself like I could. I'm, as I said, one of a younger professional. Sometimes it can be intimidating or room full of people that know more than you. I could be down on myself. And look at it and say, Oh, I'm the youngest here. I am most inexperienced. I don't have as much skills or sets, or I could reframe it and think of it in a positive light and say, I am young, I do. I offer a new mindset. I bring new skills, new things that aren't already established. So kind of having that confidence and positive outlook to be able to reframe Michael Hingson  53:42 the other part of that. The other part of that, though, is that, yeah, you're young and all of that. But clearly some people have thought that you have a lot to contribute, and you're already doing that. And so obviously life is, is a is a place where we can learn, and we do need to continue to learn, but, but the reality is that we can always find learning as an end, as an adventure, and something that we need to do. And I think that that's exactly what we should we should be doing regularly, because it's always all about learning, yep, which really makes a lot of sense. So for you, what's next? For you? Do you have any notion? Dana Prenger  54:32 Yeah, I think I'm excited to continue developing this role, this new marketing manager role at Smart solve. I do like to travel. As I said, I've been to a lot of different countries, so wanting to further learn more about the world, new people, new places. Yeah, I want to have a family. I have a boyfriend that we're getting kind of serious. So looking for. To that next phase of my life and how well of a role model my mom was for me, I do want to be a mom as well someday. Cool. What countries have you been to? Yeah, I've been to Mexico, been to Portugal, been to Spain, one of the recent family trips. We just got back from Costa Rica. It was gorgeous there. We left right after Christmas and got back January 7 of this year. So that's why I'm still a little tan from the trip for you. But yeah, it was a good mix of adventure, zip lining, rock climbing, hiking, and then also just getting to relax and be in warm weather by a beach. Michael Hingson  55:46 What are what other countries, Dana Prenger  55:49 other countries that I've been to, went to Punta Cana, that was a very nice one, that Dominican Republic as the country, yeah. Michael Hingson  56:02 Cool. So the whole family went, Dana Prenger  56:07 yeah, all six of us. Wow. It works out nice because I have one sister and two brothers, and then my mom and dad. So it's kind of perfect, three and three, three girls, three boys. Michael Hingson  56:18 Yeah, that's, that's pretty cool. I'm glad that you you get a chance to have some of those experiences. What have you learned by going to other countries? Dana Prenger  56:29 Yeah, I've learned a lot just the way of life, the way they do things. Speaking of since we just got back from Costa Rica, one of the sayings they say all the time is Pura Vida, just pure life and kind of a more, not as upbeat, fast, hard paced environment as the US more free, yeah. But also it depends on the trip too. I've done some local mission trips. I wanted to do an international mission trip. I had it scheduled, but then that's when covid happened, so I had to cancel that. So bucket list coming up soon, I'm going to do a international mission trip. But it is different when you're traveling for just enjoyment vacation versus other purposes. Michael Hingson  57:19 You find that a lot of places where you visited, don't tend to take, and I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but don't take life as seriously as we tend to try to do here. Yeah, yeah. And it's, and it makes a lot of sense to lighten up a little bit, and then ought to do more of that. Well, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Dana Prenger  57:42 Yeah, they can message me on LinkedIn if they have a LinkedIn profile, or they can go to smart solve website, contact us through there. What's your LinkedIn name to me? Yeah, Dana, just my name. You can search it. Dana pranger. Dana, D, a n, a pranger, P R, E N, G, E R, Michael Hingson  58:04 okay, well, I hope people will do that. This has been fun, and you've got a lot of good insights that you've offered, and we're going to have to after you your marketing for a while, we'll have to have you come back and tell us Dana Prenger  58:19 more stories. Yeah, that would be wonderful. And, yeah, thank you for having me as a guest. Super fun. Yeah, we'll see you, John. Yeah. Now we'll get John on and he can, I gave you a little warm up to smart solve. He can get into more of the details. Michael Hingson  58:36 Well, I want to thank you, and I want to thank everyone for being here today. We really appreciate it. Love it. If you'd give us a five star rating wherever you are, and also, even more important than a rating, please give us a very positive review. We really love your reviews. People will and do monitor and read and watch these podcasts more when people review them. So we'd love you to voice your thoughts. If you'd like to reach out to me. I would love to hear from you, and especially if you might know and Dana you as well. If anyone else, in addition to John, who ought to come out on on unstoppable mindset podcast, feel free to email me, and we're changing the address so it's easy. It's speaker, S, P, E, A, K, E, R, at Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, n.com. Love to hear from you. Love to get your thoughts. And we'll we'll value them a lot. And if you know people who ought to come on, please introduce us. But again, Dana, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely a lot of fun, and hopefully we'll get to do it some more in the future. Dana Prenger  59:48 So thank you. Yes, this was great. Thank you, Michael, Michael Hingson  59:55 thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope to. Day's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook blinded by fear, it explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening, keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. You you.

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You can create the greatest content in the world, but if it shows up on the wrong channel at the wrong time, it still falls flat. In this episode, lifecycle marketing expert Leslie Bartley makes the case for treating content as guidance rather than just marketing. She walks through how to match message urgency to the right channel, how to keep the human touch while scaling through automation, and her "core four" metrics framework for knowing whether your content is actually landing. If you're blasting and hoping for the best, Leslie's approach will sharpen everything about your distribution strategy.Leslie Bartley is a lifecycle and customer marketing expert with over 15 years of experience spanning e-commerce, advertising, luxury hospitality, healthcare, and SaaS. She has held roles at Amazon, GoodRx, and early-stage startups, working across demand generation, marketing automation, product marketing, and product management. Now at Squire, Leslie focuses on behavior-based content delivery across owned channels, building systems that guide customers rather than just market to them. Connect with Leslie on LinkedIn.Text us what you think about this episode!

Can Your DPC Practice Survive Its Own Success?Most physicians opening a Direct Primary Care practice master the clinical side quickly. The harder challenge? Running the business that sustains it.In this episode of My DPC Story, host Dr. Maryal Concepcion sits down with Tom Squire, founder of Osprey CFO, a financial advisory firm built specifically to support small businesses and DPC practices. Tom brings a background in banking and private equity and translates that institutional financial playbook for independent physician practice owners.Whether you're pre-launch, in your first year, or scaling a multi-location DPC, this conversation will help you identify where your finances are quietly costing you time, money, and peace of mind.What You'll Learn in This Episode:The two biggest financial problems DPC physicians face as their panel growsWhy the systems that worked when you opened your practice stop working as you scaleHow to know when it's time to start paying yourself a salary from your DPCThe real cost of DIY financial management (QuickBooks, Gusto, bookkeepers who don't explain anything)Why pricing strategy is one of the highest-leverage tools in your DPC financial toolkitHow a $5 membership price increase can meaningfully impact your bottom lineThe opportunity cost of doing your own financial administration vs. outsourcing to an expertWhat to look for when choosing a financial partner who actually understands DPCWhy private equity is coming for DPC and how strong financial foundations protect independent practicesOsprey CFO handles your DPC financial infrastructure so you can focus on patients and growth. Get your FREE Osprey + My DPC Story Financial Decision Tree HERE.  DPC gives you autonomy. But autonomy without financial clarity becomes stress in disguise.Cash flow. Owner pay. Hiring timing. Tax strategy.These aren't afterthoughts. They're what protect your freedom long term.Book a free 30-minute strategy call with Osprey CFO to see how they can help you handle the financial infrastructure of your DPC so you can focus on patients Support the showGET your FREE MONTHLY BUSINESS TOOL DOWNLOADBecome A My DPC Story PATREON MEMBER! SPONSOR THE PODMy DPC Story VOICEMAIL! DPC SWAG!FACEBOOK * INSTAGRAM * LinkedIn * TWITTER * TIKTOK * YouTube

Produced by Joseph Cottrell, Wayne Hall, Ken Fuller and Jeffrey Crecelius Mark considers the new version of Yes Symphonic Live, from the amazing combination of Anderson, White, Squire, Howe, Brislin and orchestra. Is the new version significantly different to the original? What are the added ingredients? Is it worth the purchase price? Do let us know your thoughts in the comments below. Barry Plummer 2026 Calendar is still available! ORDER HERE Apply £11.00 off with the promo code wh4y4pk3 Enrich your Prog year with iconic images of Yes in the 1970s, taken by the legendary rock photographer, Barry Plummer. Enjoy 12 beautiful colour and black and white photographs of Yes in the studio and live, capturing the essence of the world's greatest progressive rock band. With this limited-edition calendar on your wall throughout 2026, you'll agree that Barry Plummer is, indeed, the Master of Images! (A flat shipping fee will be added at checkout depending on your location.) ORDER HERE Yes - The Tormato Story & Tales from Topographic Oceans - Yes Album Listening Guide Available now! YesMusicBooks.com YMP Patrons: Producers: Joseph Cottrell Wayne Hall Ken Fuller Jeffrey Crecelius Patrons: Aaron SteelmanLindAl Dell'AngeloLobate ScarpBarry GorskyMark BaggsBill WhittakerMark James LangBob MartilottaMark SlaterBrian HarrisMartin KjellbergBrian SullivanMichael HanderhanChris BandiniMichael O'ConnorCraig EstenesMiguel FalcãoDave OwenPaul HailesDavidPaul TomeiDavid HeydenRachel HadawayDavid PannellRobert NasirDavid WatkinsonRobert VandiverDeclan LogueRonnie NeeleyDemScott ColomboDoug CurranSimon BarrowFergus CubbageStephen LambeFred BarringerSteve DillGary BettsSteve LuziettiGeoff BailieSteve PerryGeoffrey MasonSteve RodeGuy DeRomeSteve ScottHenrik AntonssonSteven RoehrHogne Bø PettersenTerence SadlerTodd DudleyThomas DeVriesJohn CowanJohn ThomsonJohn HoldenJohn ViolaJamie McQuinnTim StannardDouglas Caldwell Become a Patron!

Tune in for an episode of your questions and feedback for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: The Squire. Bald Move Groundhog Day 2026 or groundhog.baldmove.com CureAlz Send your feedback to sevenkingdoms@baldmove.com. We await your ravens. Theme song: Game of Thrones (80's TV Theme) by Highway Superstar Support Bald Move:  Club Bald Move Leave Us A Review on Apple Podcasts Join the discussion:  Email | Forums Follow us: Twitch | YouTube | Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Featuring audience owns and updates from the public's reaction to episode 3 of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.Episode 564 - Breaking Down The SquireGame of Owns is hosted by Hannah Hosking & Zack LuyePodcast shirts ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gameofowns.com/shirts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gameofowns.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for sorted podcast episodes

Tune in for an episode of your questions and feedback for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: The Squire. Bald Move Groundhog Day 2026 or groundhog.baldmove.com CureAlz Send your feedback to sevenkingdoms@baldmove.com. We await your ravens. Theme song: Game of Thrones (80's TV Theme) by Highway Superstar Support Bald Move:  Club Bald Move Leave Us A Review on Apple Podcasts Join the discussion:  Email | Forums Follow us: Twitch | YouTube | Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chatting season 1 episode 3 - "The Squire".AKOTSK Intro by Bran the Builder - ⁠⁠linktr.ee/Br4nTheBuilder⁠⁠Shirts (w/ AKOTSK) -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠historyofwesteros.threadless.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠HoW Audience Survey - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠bit.ly/howsurvey⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bonus Eps & More -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ patreon.com/historyofwesteros⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.historyofwesteros.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Intro/Maps - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠klaradox.de⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook Group -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ bit.ly/howfb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ bit.ly/howdiscord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nina - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠goodqueenaly.tumblr.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Ross Bolen and Barrett Dudley discuss and review episode 3 of “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” on HBO. Later this week, further discussion driven by hotline calls from listeners/viewers in an ad-free podcast available exclusively on Patreon.com/OystersClamsCockles. Video Produced by Kade Orris Subscribe on YouTube:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/@OystersClamsCockles⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Presented by Bolen Media:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BolenMedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dunk and Egg are munching on breakfast and sewing up their clothes. The jousting tournament will determine the future prosperity of many. And Egg's identity is barely a secret at this point. Cover your eyeholes and listen in as Jim and A.Ron discuss A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on HBO. Mike Nelson Bald Move Prestige - A Knight's Tale (2001) Bald Move Twitch Bald Move YouTube Send your feedback to sevenkingdoms@baldmove.com. We await your ravens. Theme song: Game of Thrones (80's TV Theme) by Highway Superstar Support Bald Move:  Club Bald Move Leave Us A Review on Apple Podcasts Join the discussion:  Email | Forums Follow us: Twitch | YouTube | Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of A Cast of Kings, David Chen and Kim Renfro dive into the third episode of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.Why has sports betting infiltrated Westeros? What did we make of the big reveal at the end of the episode? And how was it different than what was in the books? Listen to hear us discuss all these questions and more!Links: Email us at acastofkings(AT)gmail(DOT)com Subscribe to Decoding TV on YouTube Follow us on Tiktok Buy Kim Renfro's book about Game of Thrones Follow this podcast on Instagram Follow this podcast on Tiktok Subscribe to David's free newsletter, Decoding Everything

Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson are back to break down ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' Episode 3, “The Squire.” They discuss their favorite moments of the episode, Egg's big reveal, and what it all means going forward. (00:00) Intro (1:20) CR's Recap (6:30) Favorite Moment (9:37) Is This Show a Hit? (12:17) The Egg Twist (19:56) Aerion Brightflame (25:47) Aegon Targaryen (32:56) Targaryens and Incest (40:24) Alice and Her Three Fingers (43:01) Humfrey Hardyng (46:33) Robyn Rhysling Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson Producers: Aleya Zenieris and Carlos Chiriboga Social: Jomi Adeniran Lighting Director: Sarah Reddy Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Da7e and Neil are hungry for bacon and egg sandwiches as Dunk and Egg get into more trouble than you'd expect from a 30-minute episode of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.  In The Calm [05:18], your faithful hosts kick things off with several very important lore corrections from last week's pod. Then they discuss this week's big reveal, the tonal shift signaled by the closing credits music, and the effective deployment of the Save the Cat Horse trope.Then in The Storm [01:03:34], Neil puts on his fortune teller cloak to unpack all the lore connections hinted at in this episode. And Da7e makes bold predictions about who may stand with Dunk now that he's in a bit of hot water. Plus, a bold claim is made about how this first season will be remembered... Next week, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms drops its fourth episode early (on Friday, February 6) because of something called the Superb Owl, which means that A Storm of Spoilers will be in your feeds on Saturday.To interact with the show, send your comments and questions to stormofspoilers@gmail.com, and follow us on Twitter/X and Bluesky @Da7eandNeil.You can also support Da7e and Neil and get all kinds of bonus content (from the Game of Thrones era to the LOST rewatch to our Twin Peaks rewatch project to our current Adventure Pod and Hannibal watch project) by subscribing to our Patreon here: patreon.com/Da7eandNeil

Jason and Rosie recap the third episode of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Follow Jason: IG & Bluesky Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram Join the X-Ray Vision DiscordSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jason and Greta unpack the momentous third episode of the series, where we learn more about Egg. And to break it all down, they are joined by the young squire himself, Dexter Sol Ansell. They discuss that explosive final scene, shaving his head for the role, and how many gummy worms he ate on set. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The secret's officially out

This week on Streaming Things, Kit, Andy, and Steve break down A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms - Season 1, Episode 3: “The Squire.” As Dunk and Egg take in the first full day of tourney events, Dunk is presented with a tempting proposition - one that could secure his future, but may challenge his sense of honor.00:00:00 - Introduction00:05:17 - Overall Thoughts00:21:04 - Scene by Scene Recap01:03:23 - Valyrian Steals01:11:07 - Dragon Eggs01:18:52 - Potential Spoilers!01:21:34 - Mummer's DragonVideo Version of this Episode: YouTubeFollow Us on Social MediaStreaming Things PatreonStreaming Things InstagramStreaming Things TikTokFollow Kit LazerTikTokInstagramYouTubeFollow SteveInstagramFollow AndyInstagramVisit Our WebsiteCheck Out Our MerchSend Us Mail:Streaming Things6809 Main St. #172Cincinnati, OH 45244 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Squire. Railroad's Tales of Dunk and Egg is the best thing he's ever written in the ASOIAF universe, and the long overdue adaptation has finally made it to television. Red & Ivan smack the fleas out of their clothes and head to the Inn at the Crossroads to talk HBO's A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Dunk and Egg theme by Daniel Preston AKA Wesley Thunder Also, check out Red & Maggie Tokuda-Hall's podcast, Failure to Adapt, available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or via RSS As always: Support Ivan & Red! → patreon.com/boarsgoreswords Follow us on twitter → @boarsgoreswords Find us on facebook → facebook.com/BoarsGoreSwords

Dunk and Egg are munching on breakfast and sewing up their clothes. The jousting tournament will determine the future prosperity of many. And Egg's identity is barely a secret at this point. Cover your eyeholes and listen in as Jim and A.Ron discuss A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on HBO. Mike Nelson Bald Move Prestige - A Knight's Tale (2001) Bald Move Twitch Bald Move YouTube Send your feedback to sevenkingdoms@baldmove.com. We await your ravens. Theme song: Game of Thrones (80's TV Theme) by Highway Superstar Support Bald Move:  Club Bald Move Leave Us A Review on Apple Podcasts Join the discussion:  Email | Forums Follow us: Twitch | YouTube | Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Da7e and Neil are back in Westeros learning maybe a little too much about Ser Arlan of Pennytree as A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms continues to track the rise of his protege, Ser Duncan the Tall. In The Calm [04:58], they do a bit of Banner Tracking as more famous houses join the fray with a ferocious burst of jousting action. They also discuss the arrival of House Targaryen to the party and break down all the princes, blonde and otherwise. And before they head into the spoilery Storm section, Neil does a deep dive into the currency of Westeros so that everyone can convert their silver stags into gold dragons as they tearfully sell their most beloved horse.Then in The Storm [01:01:38], Da7e has questions about the Targaryen family tree, their current obsession with the Blackfyre Rebellion, and the tradition of houses changing sigils over time. They also breakdown the episode 3 teaser and what secrets it's hiding in plain sight before discussing some alleged episode titles for the rest of the season.Next week, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms continues with episode three, "The Squire" on Sunday evening, then Da7e and Neil will be back in your feeds with their deep dive on Monday afternoon.To interact with the show, send your comments and questions to stormofspoilers@gmail.com, and follow us on Twitter/X and Bluesky @Da7eandNeil.You can also support Da7e and Neil and get all kinds of bonus content (from the Game of Thrones era to the LOST rewatch to our Twin Peaks rewatch project to our current Adventure Pod and Hannibal watch project) by subscribing to our Patreon here: patreon.com/Da7eandNeil

Mal and Jo are back in Westeros to dive deep into the latest ‘Game of Thrones' spinoff series, ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms'! They talk about everything from Dunk's attempt to enter the tourney, Dunk meeting Egg, and the introduction of the incredible Lyonel Baratheon. (00:00) Intro (09:48) Opening Snapshot (41:12) Dunk Buries Ser Arlan of Pennytree (48:02) Dunk Contemplates His Future (01:05:25) Dunk Meets Egg (and a Mysterious Stranger) At the Inn (01:13:57) Dunk Arrives At Ashford Meadow to Join the Lists (01:28:40) Dunk Seeks Ser Manfred Dondarrion (01:35:24) The Fossoway Apples Enter the Chat (01:42:11) Ser Manfred Really Needs An Alarm Clock (01:44:23) Tanselle Too-Tall Is Not Too Tall For Me (01:50:44) Bonding With Raymun (01:51:50) The Laughing Storm Dances His Way Into the Story (02:12:11) Ser Manfred Rejects Dunk (02:13:39) Dunk Takes on a Squire! (02:23:15) Book Spoilers! Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices