Scouting The Refs Podcast

This week on the #RefsPodcast, we ask: Where's Wes McCauley? Edmonton Oilers' Connor McDavid takes an overtime high-sticking penalty that was confirmed via review... but was another penalty missed? Boston Bruins forward Charlie Coyle gives a little 'How do you do' to Florida Panthers defenseman Aaron Ekblad's undercarriage, with no penalty or fine. Goaltender interference (surprise!) at Vancouver Canucks vs. Edmonton Oilers... and again at Dallas Stars vs. Colorado Avalanche... and once more at New York Rangers vs. Florida Panthers. Breaking down those plays, the rules, and the maddening 'explanations' we get from the officials and the NHL's Situation Room.Also, we look at Matt Duchene's real impact - and legacy - in the National Hockey League... and more on McCauley's whereabouts and why he's missing his first conference final in over 10 seasons. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

No goal! We've got no goal after Vancouver Canucks goaltender Arturs Silovs saves a puck with his glove that might have been over the line… but a good goal for the Florida Panthers' Sam Bennett after he cross-checked Charlie Coyle into Boston Bruins goaltender Jeremy Swayman. We also have some goaltender interference on the Panthers' Sergei Bobrovsky. No call! Edmonton Oilers' Connor McDavid gets away with one after he bloodied Vancouver Canucks defenseman Quinn Hughes with an uncalled high stick. How was it missed, and what can the officials do about it afterwards?No control! Chaos ensues after the buzzer at Edmonton Oilers vs. Vancouver Canucks, when a Connor McDavid slash prompts a pair of cross-checks that resulted in a fine to Nikita Zadorov and a suspension for Carson Soucy. Did Player Safety get it right? We're not quite sure…No video! Florida's Sam Bennett delivered a sucker-punch that knocked Boston's Brad Marchand out of the lineup, but no penalty was called… no suspension or fine were offered… and no clear video of the incident was available - until just before the next game. How does that happen?No way! Vancouver's Elias Petterson picks up a charging penalty for a jumping reverse hit. You don't see that every day, but that doesn't mean it's not a penalty. (Heck, most reverse hits are already interference.)Also, sad news out of Hamilton with the passing of long-time NHL and WHA referee Bill Friday at age 91. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this week's #RefsPodcast, we've got big hits, mega misconducts, and… who's that ref?Dallas Stars captain Jamie Benn goes unpenalized for a hit on Colorado Avalanche defenseman Devon Toews - even after a ref review, Carolina Hurricanes' Tony DeAngelo gets two for a hit on Will Cuylle of the New York Rangers, more goaltender collisions at Canes/Rangers, and some poor goaltender geometry for the Edmonton Oilers' Stuart Skinner against the Vancouver Canucks. We've got a no-call for low-sticking, and a whole bunch of misconduct penalties at Boston Bruins vs. Florida Panthers.Plus, standby referee Frederick L'Ecuyer subs in at Avs vs. Stars… so where's Wes McCauley?Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's all about the blue paint as Nashville Predators' Michael McCarron gets fined for goaltender interference after running over Casey DeSmith of the Vancouver Canucks, and two Tampa Bay Lightning goals get wiped out due to goaltender interference. Los Angeles Kings goaltender David Rittich is in the blue when he catches the puck… but his glove goes over the line. Boston Bruins' Brad Marchand gets taken out by linesman Andrew Smith… then shoves linesman Ryan Daisy while heading off on a line change. Rangers' Rempe takes out Caps' Van Riemsdyk and a pair of penalties get overturned after referee review at Vegas Golden Knights vs. Dallas Stars – Todd and Josh break down why the refs couldn't assess a double-minor of Alex Pietrangelo for roughing after he drew blood from Tyler Seguin. We've got a Nashville Predators goal off the skate of Filip Forsberg that was ruled not to be a ‘distinct kicking motion', and the Colorado Avalanche ending up shorthanded after some inconclusive video evidence on an offside challenge against the Winnipeg Jets. Should the NHL remove the penalty when a review is inconclusive?Plus, the role of NHL Series Supervisors and how they factor into each playoff series. PLUS: Did you know that the official color blue for an NHL goal crease is PANTONE 298? (If you're playing along at home, that's #51BAE8 or 81,186,232)Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out.Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs.Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trevor Moore of the Los Angeles Kings gets only two minutes for a low hit on the Edmonton Oilers' Vincent Desharnais, and the New York Rangers' Artemi Panarin sees a major penalty call rescinded after his hit on Washington Capitals' forward T.J. Oshie.Also on the latest #RefsPodcast, we've got two too-many-men penalties -- one at Rangers vs. Caps for six men, and one at Panthers vs. Lightning where Tampa was caught with seven skaters on the ice. We also review the review of the Winnipeg Jets' red-line goal against the Colorado Avalanche that required a second look, a penalized slash by Tyler Bertuzzi on Boston Bruins' Brad Marchand that should get a second look for embellishment, and the rules around stopping play when a goaltender has lost his mask, as New York Islanders goaltender Ilya Sorokin did against the Carolina Hurricanes.Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcastQuestions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcastThe Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this week's Scouting the Refs podcast, we've got an Emergency Back-Up Ref getting into the action as Michael Markovic steps in for Trevor Hanson at Nashville Predators vs. Vancouver Canucks, Trevor Moore of the Los Angeles Kings gets only two minutes for a low hit on the Edmonton Oilers' Vincent Desharnais, and the New York Rangers' Artemi Panarin sees a major penalty call rescinded after his hit on Washington Capitals' forward T.J. Oshie. Also on the latest #RefsPodcast, we've got two too-many-men penalties -- one at Rangers vs. Caps for six men, and one at Panthers vs. Lightning where Tampa was caught with seven skaters on the ice. We also review the review of the Winnipeg Jets' red-line goal against the Colorado Avalanche that required a second look, a penalized slash by Tyler Bertuzzi on Boston Bruins' Brad Marchand that should get a second look for embellishment, and the rules around stopping play when a goaltender has lost his mask, as New York Islanders goaltender Ilya Sorokin did against the Carolina Hurricanes. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We hereby conduct this week's Scouting the Refs Podcast... The playoff officials working the next fortnight's games are out! Referee Mike Sullivan is... ready for it as he makes his NHL debut; Kevin Shattenkirk is guilty as sin for stickwork from the bench; refs would've, should've, could've called a penalty for Habs' Slafkovsky's stick flip, Flyers fans need to calm down when referee Kelly Sutherland thought 'don't blame me' after he waved off a goal when he lost sight of the puck, the Islanders' Kyle Palmieri is like 'look what you made me do' after a Rangers player pushes him offside, the Pittsburgh Penguins are wondering how did it end after two disallowed goals for interference, the Red Wings' Joe Veleno is fresh out the slammer after only two minutes for a dangerous boarding, Washington's Nick Jensen goes down bad after a hit from Tampa's Mikey Eyssimont, and Ottawa's Shane Pinto hits different - with no call - on the Rangers' Matt Rempe -- who, at 6'7", is definitely not the smallest man who ever lived. Tampa Nikita Kucherov is like 'who's afraid of little old me' after he did something bad with an elbow to the Caps' Tom Wilson, and I think he knows it. (Sorry, nothing this week about Taylor Hall, the Swift Current Broncos, or Florida!!!) Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby calls out a linesman, referee Steve Kozari is injured in a collision with Tampa Bay Lightning's Haydn Fleury, two new NHL referees make their league debuts as Graedy Hamilton and Stephen Hiff take the ice, with two more waiting for their starts.  We've got a goal line stand at Boston Bruins vs. Carolina Hurricanes, where a shot from the Canes' Martin Necas just baaaaaarely crossed the goal line… or did it? And why can't we be sure?! The rulebook fails the refs as they review a high stick on Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby, Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Erik Johnson leaves the penalty box – with the officials' headset, and Edmonton Oilers' winger Evander Kane is fined $5000 for slashing Calgary's Dryden Hunt after a goal.  Also, do any NHL officials live in Utah? Asking for a friend. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've got a communication breakdown in Montreal as a Canadiens goal against the Florida Panthers is confirmed - then overturned due to a miscommunication between the Situation Room and the on-ice officials. (At least they got the call right!) Player Safety had a busy week, with Minnesota Wild's Hartman suspended for throwing a stick at a referee, Montreal Canadiens' Guhle suspended for slashing from the bench, Anaheim Ducks' Strome fined for cross-checking, and Philadelphia Flyers' Hathaway fined for diving/embellishment. While both players were ejected from their respective games, no supplemental discipline for a spear from Vegas Golden Knights' Eichel or boarding by Canucks' Zadorov. You get a misconduct! You get a misconduct! Misconduct penalties to every skater on the ice at Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Buffalo Sabres. We also saw eight players ejected just two seconds into New Jersey Devils vs. New York Rangers, thanks to Rule 46.7. Linesman Ryan Galloway works his final NHL game, while referee Chris Lee lays out Anaheim's Trevor Zegras with a solid check along the boards. Also, over in the OHL, they're giving referees the final call on video reviews for the playoffs. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Detroit Red Wings broadcaster Ken Daniels joins Todd and Josh to discuss a revolutionary change to the offside rule that would increase scoring, reduce Coach's Challenges, and expand the size of the offensive zone. The NHL's Department of Player Safety issues a six-game suspension to Washington Capitals' Tom Wilson for an egregious high stick - which he reportedly won't appeal - and a $5000 fine to Buffalo Sabres defenseman Bowen Byram for some egregious interference on Ottawa Senators winger (and 17th-century pirate) Angus Crookshank. We've got captain-on-captain violence as New York Islanders' Anders Lee gets ejected for a knee-on-knee hit that injured the New Jersey Devils' Nico Hischier. Vegas Golden Knights' Nic Hague sees a match penalty reduced to a minor after review, but Winnipeg Jets' Mark Schiefele still gets the instigator for avenging the hit. The Situation Room rules no goaltender interference between Casey Cizikas and Anthony Stolarz at Islanders vs. Panthers, and no hand pass from Vincent Trocheck at Rangers vs. Avalanche. We break down the rules and the calls. Over in the ECHL, we've got an egregious temper tantrum that ended up in an ejection, but somehow didn't result in a suspension for abuse of officials. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Move, ref! Get out the way! Get out the way! Unintentional zebra hunting this week, as linesmen Tommy Hughes, Steve Barton, and Dan Kelly all find themselves on the receiving end of some unintentional contact; referee Chris Schlenker gets a primary assist; Mark Shewchyk steps up as the EBUL (Emergency Backup Linesman); and an unfortunate collision may be career-ending for referee Kevin Pollock. The NHL's Department of Player Safety hand out a two-game suspension to Florida Panthers' Dmitry Kulikov, and calls for an in-person hearing with Washington Capitals winger Tom Wilson, who's made it three years without a suspension. That streak will end. National Hockey League General Managers' meetings have resulted in a handful of rule changes, including some significant tweaks to Coach's Challenges which would allow teams to challenge certain minor penalties. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Philadelphia Flyers head coach John Tortorella gets ejected by referee Wes McCauley, then refuses to leave, resulting in a two-game suspension along with a $50,000 fine. New York Rangers' Matt Rempe gets a major, a game, and a four-game suspension for elbowing New Jersey Devils' Jonas Siegenthaler, while Ottawa Senators' Parker Kelly sits for two. Referee Gord Dwyer derails a potential goalie fight between the the Anaheim Ducks' John Gibson and Petr Mrazek of the Chicago Blackhawks. Player Safety issues fines to the Boston Bruins' Charlie Coyle and Toronto Maple Leafs' Jake McCabe for separate cross-checking incidents.   Overtime shenanigans ensue after the Buffalo Sabres' game-winning goal is reviewed - and disallowed - for an offside, well after the Sabres and Edmonton Oilers have both left the ice. The Minnesota Wild pull the goalie in overtime against the Nashville Predators, nearly invoking a little-known rule that even the players on the ice weren't aware of. Also, a pair of officials get mic'd up as linesman James Tobias confesses to some foot-speed challenges while referee Kyle Rehman chooses politeness.  Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week's Scouting the Refs Podcast: Longtime NHL referee Tom Kowal heads to the BC Hockey Hall of Fame, the NHL's Department of Player Safety issues fines to Minnesota Wild's Mats Zuccarello and Nashville Predators' Michael McCarron, and a suspension to Calgary Flames defenseman Martin Pospisil. No call, no fine after Colorado Avalanche's Josh Manson slashes Chicago Blackhawks' Connor Bedard -- or to New York Rangers' Matt Rempe for charging Toronto Maple Leafs' Ilya Lyubushkin. Plus, the New Jersey Devils get a penalty shot after Anaheim Ducks' Frank Vatrano intentionally dislodges the net, while the Toronto media thought the Maple Leafs should've been awarded one against the New York Rangers. (They shouldn't have.) #RefsPodcast Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've got coach conflicts as the Toronto Maple Leafs' Sheldon Keefe gets kicked out and Buffalo Sabres bench boss Don Granato puts his team down two men. A power outage at Lightning/Flyers, Hill keeps one skate blade in the crease, review rules a legal check for Trocheck, the PWHL brings back the ref cam – and hands out a major penalty and ejection. Plus, we've got a hot @#$%ing mic in Philly! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

New York Rangers' Matt Rempe gets ejected for an illegal check to the head of New Jersey Devils' Nathan Bastian, but don't expect a suspension. From the same game, defenseman Jacob Trouba delivers a legal hit, and Bastian gets away with instigating a fight in return. Islanders head coach Patrick Roy fails in his first Coach's Challenge in New York on a possible missed hand pass, Montreal Canadiens defenseman Mike Matheson hits Zach Benson of the Buffalo Sabres, and - whoops - a shorthanded icing at Washington Capitals vs. Montreal Canadiens. Todd and Josh check out the ruling after New York's Artemi Panarin won it for the Rangers in overtime on a dislodged net vs. the Islanders in Sunday's Stadium Series game. Plus, NHL ref Dan O'Rourke dons a neck protector, Peter Laviolette's son openly mocks the officials after an ejection, and NHL referee Garrett Rank steps up to the mic for what just might be the review call of the year! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So, Ridly Grieg did a thing. Then Morgan Rielly did a thing. And then Player Safety did a thing. Now Rielly has appealed that thing. DOPS hands out $10k in fines to the Boston Bruins, with Matt Grzelcyk getting a major penalty and a fine for spearing the Caps' Max Pacioretty and goaltender Linus Ullmark picking up a fine for high-sticking Tampa Bay Lightning forward Mikey Eyssimont. Vancouver Canucks defenseman Nikita Zadorov gets a two-game suspension for a hit to the head of Detroit Red Wings forward Lucas Raymond that Zadorov admitted was "a bad hit." We'll also dive into Rielly vs. Grieg, the five game suspension, and all the strong opinions on both sides of the incident as we await the results of Rielly's appeal to Commissioner Gary Bettman. We review a continuous play goal where the Tampa Bay Lightning scored a goal even after referee Kelly Sutherland blew the whistle. Plus, Todd and Josh check out the latest Down Goes Brown post over at The Athletic on the NHL's unwritten rules. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Breaking down the three-game suspension to Winnipeg Jets defenseman Brendan Dillon for his it on Pittsburgh Penguins' Noel Acciari. Dallas Stars forward Mason Marchment picks up a fine for an unpenalized hit on the Toronto Maple Leafs' Jake McCabe, while Calgary Flames defenseman Martin Pospisil gets ejected for a crosscheck to the face of Boston Bruins winger Brad Marchand that drew no further supplemental discipline. Should the NHL's Department of Player Safety build in some 'automatic' or mandatory minimum suspensions? Plus, Todd and Josh run through an NHL All-Star video review that wiped out a Pastrnak goal, officials' ASG paychecks, ref milestones for Frederick L'Ecuyer and Francois St. Laurent, and STR makes it on to TNT! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! #RefsPodcast The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on the #RefsPodcast: A crazy situation from Canucks vs. Blue Jackets, where it looked like the officials changed the call - and the penalized player - via video review... which they're not exactly allowed to do. Todd and Josh also break down the No Goal for the Toronto Maple Leafs after goaltender interference from William Nylander cancelled out a Tyler Bertuzzi goal.  NHL Player Safety has a busy week with a 5-game suspension to Montreal Canadiens' Brendan Gallagher and a 2-game ban to New York Rangers' Jacob Trouba, along with fines to Vancouver Canucks' Tyler Myers and Arizona Coyotes' Michael Kesselring.    The PWHL also hands out the first suspension in league history; NHL players name the league's best and work refs; Todd an Josh throw out some proposals to get better explanations for the Situation Room's decisions; and congrats to this year's NHL All-Star officials: Frederick L'Ecuyer, Francis Charron, Brandon Gawryletz, and Trent Knorr. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on the #RefsPodcast, a Pittsburgh player is wrongly incarcerated after the Penguins score an own goal while shorthanded -- Todd and Josh break down what exactly happened on this play. Also coming up this week: Player Safety springs into action with suspensions to Seattle Kraken's Yanni Gourde and Florida Panthers forward William Lockwood, along with a fine for Arizona Coyotes' Liam O'Brien on a play that failed to meet the automatic 10-game suspension. Plus, Sens' Vladimir Tarasenko penalized for an illegal stick flip to Brady Tkachuk, the Flyers score after the whistle against the Sens -- only to have the Sens score after the whistle later in the game, Buffalo Sabres defenseman Rasmus Dahlin plays the puck from the penalty box, a whole buch of overtime picks by the Sharks, and the NCAA gives a shout out to their officials. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

This week on the Scouting the Refs Podcast: Two goals at Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Calgary Flames that required a second look -- one for a missed hand pass and another for a kick to a stick and in. Todd and Josh break down both plays, along with a goal from Edmonton Oilers' Zach Hyman called back for an offside, some mid-air stickwork by Montreal Canadiens' Cole Caufield, officials' All-Star Game jerseys, and the impressive success of the Maple Leafs' video crew on Coach's Challenges. Also on this week's #RefsPodcast, we look at some high hits from Tampa Bay Lightning's Emil Martinsen Lilleberg on Anaheim Ducks' Brett Leason, Toronto's Morgan Rielly on Detroit Red Wings' Joe Veleno, and an obviously illegal one from Seattle Kraken's Yanni Gourde on Edmonton's Mattias Ekholm, along with asking: is the NHL's Department of Player Safety working? (Immediately after recording this podcast, DOPS handed out two disciplinary rulings, proving that talking about DOPS is like mentioning that your team's goalie has a shutout going...) Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

On this week's #RefsPodcast: Two too many men on the ice penalties at the same time - something the NHL hasn't seen in over a decade. How does that happen? Plus, the PWHL's first all-female officiating crew, linesman Steve Barton gets bloodied but stays in the game, no goal for the Flyers... but that's okay, it wouldn't have counted anyway. Also, Todd and Josh discuss the NHL's increase in match penalties this season, Connor McDavid's thoughts on offside reviews - including the one on Leon Draisaitl that wiped out a Zach Hyman goal, and former NHL All-Star MVP John Scott's suggestion of minimum suspensions from Player Safety. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

On this week's #RefsPodcast: Arizona Coyotes' Jason Zucker suspended for boarding Florida Panthers' Nick Cousins, but nothing for the Cousins hit on Valimaki; Minnesota Wild's Ryan Hartman fined for avenging an injury to Kirill Kaprizov with a high stick to Winnipeg Jets' Cole Perfetti, New York Rangers' kickin' old school on a Chris Krieder skate goal, Seattle Kraken's Tomas Tatar plays the puck from the bench, the PWHL's inaugural season gets underway with new rules, closing your hand on the puck in the crease, a Ghost dive gets two, a penalty swap at Sens/Pens, and more on ref accountability and post-game comments. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

It's a pre-holiday extravaganza on the Scouting the Refs Podcast. Linesmen Chad and Cody Huseby join us to talk about their unexpected NHL debuts one year ago this week. Plus, New Jersey Devils' Akira Schmid crosses the line, Boston Bruins' David Pastrnak picks up five, refs get run over, the Detroit Red Wings watch the penalty clock, the Montreal Canadiens avoid losing a goal to a hand pass, and what the Frk was he doing with his skates in the air? Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

Now boarding... a whole bunch of NHL players. Breaking down the past week's boarding calls - and non-calls: Oilers' Kane on Wild's Brodin, Sabres' Robinson on Canadiens' Barron, Panthers' Cousins on Jackets' Gudbranson -- who decided to avenge the hit by taking the law into his own hands. The Wings' Perron took the same approach, picking up a six-game suspension for a crosscheck to the face after an injury to Larkin. Should players answer the bell for legal hits? Why does the NHLPA only seem to care about its suspended players, rather than the victims of their crimes? Todd and Josh break down a pair of penalty shots, including Panthers' Tkachuk vs. Canes' Kochetkov and a Zuccarello shootout goal after a pokecheck. We've also got a Devils' Smith slewfoot, an unsportsmanlike for Preds' Watson, and more. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

Flyers coach John Tortorella calls the NHL the “No Hit League” after Garnet Hathaway gets ejected for boarding on a late icing call. Player Safety goes after both combatants in a stick-battle, handing a two-game suspension for New Jersey Devils defenseman Brendan Smith and a $5000 fine to Philadelphia Flyers' Travis Konecny. Detroit Red Wings blueliner Jake Walman also picks up a high-sticking fine - for lower than the league maximum.A trio of suspensions in the FPHL for middle fingers, crotch gestures, cross-checks to the face, and late hits - with one player banned for 18 games. ‘Intent to Blow' costs the New Jersey Devils a goal against the San Jose Sharks, Arizona's Sean Durzi puts the “bench” in bench minor, and an ECHL player gets a misconduct penalty for shooting a chicken nugget into the stands. Yep. You read that right. Plus, congrats to two retired NHL linesmen: Brian Murphy, on his induction into the USA Hockey Hall of Fame; and John Grandt on his final college hockey game before coming off-ice as the USHL's Director of Officiating.  Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

The Florida Panthers found their way into a bunch of sticky situations, including an overturned shootout goal vs. the Toronto Maple Leafs and a controversial offside - make that ONside - against the Ottawa Senators. Referee Garrett Rank penalizes everybody on the ice, while Kyle Rehman offers up a penalty to Pittsburgh Penguins' Kris Letang. Plus, Todd and Josh discuss a late hit from Philadelphia Flyers' Garnet Hathaway on New Jersey Devils' Luke Hughes, a violent stick slash from Brendan Smith on Philadelphia Flyers' Travis Konecny, Minnesota Wild's Kirill Kaprizov getting away with a head shot against the Nashville Predators, and this week's Player Safety decisions: a two-game suspension to Minnesota Wild's Ryan Hartman and fines to New York Rangers defenseman Jacob Trouba and Ottawa Senators winger Zack MacEwen. Also, referee Katie Guay joins the NHL as Officiating Manager and we see two high-sticking double-minor penalties overturned after video review... C'mon, guys. You're doing it to yourselves here. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

Linesman Tyson Baker makes an amazing save after a fight, Calgary Flames' MacKenzie Weegar take a penalty -- then throws his stick to prompt a penalty shot. Nashville's Filip Forsberg gets away with closing his hand on the puck prior to a Preds goal, Rangers' Quick gives up a goal while gloveless... at least until a review. New Jersey's Jack Hughes scores after the whistle on a 'continuous play', and Anaheim's Jakob Silfverberg doesn't score at all, somehow, despite a lengthy review. Puck tracking on goals, where are you?! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls. 

The instigator penalty makes a comeback, Bruins' Marchand mouths off, Habs' Gallagher lays into referee Pierre Lambert, Oilers' Draisaitl fined for taking out Horvat's knee, Wild's Duhaime tossed for Harley hit, Jackets' Kuraly has boarding major reduced after review, a Rangers' no-goal results in one of the longest reviews of the year, a quick whistle costs the Flames a goal vs. Leafs, CBJ's Fantilli penalized for 'sportsmanlike' conduct, and... finally... NHL NFTs! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com #RefsPodcast Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Flames' Magiapane suspended for cross-check, Bruins' McAvoy has suspension upheld after appeal to commissioner Gary Bettman, Isles' Barzal fined for high-sticking Canes' DeAngelo, Canucks' Demko run over on Draisaitl goal, Colorado's Ross Colton picks up 17 penalty minutes and a fine, no penalty after Ducks' Henrique runs into Pens' Jarry, and Edmonton Oilers' coach Jay Woodcroft gets ejected by referee Kevin Pollock. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A pair of suspensions for hits to the head to Bruins' McAvoy and Sabres' Clifton, one non-call infuriates Nathan MacKinnon while another frustrates Maple Leafs fans, Ducks coach tossed after no-goal confirmed via review, Capitals' Milano nearly scores after a high stick while Edmonton's Draisaitl tries to play with a broken one, and a knee-on-knee takes out Fox at Rangers vs. Canes. Todd and Josh also discuss recent officiating comments by agent Allan Walsh, review a pair of jerseys not tied down in fights - only one was a penalty, and check out an on-ice penalty assessed to the fans. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, retired NHL linesman Brian Murphy joins the show to talk about his career, developing officials, and his upcoming induction into the US Hockey Hall of Fame.  Todd and Josh also cover a missed thrown stick at Kraken vs. Red Wings, Detroit's Ben Chariot caught playing without a helmet, Ottawa Senators' Brady Tkachuk picks up a late instigator penalty in a fight with the Sabres' Alex Tuch, and Calgary's Rasmus Andersson gets suspended and loses his appeal, the Washington Capitals lose a goal to a Coach's Challenge, Ref Appreciation Night for the WHL's Vancouver Giants, and more. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads.. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Officials getting in the way, Tony D going off for going off, coaches vs. refs, Zub gets handsy, a plethora of penalty shots in the NHL, Coach's Challenges, suspensions and fines for OHL post-game brawl, and a case of double-goaltender intereference? Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads.. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! The Scouting The Refs Podcast is a weekly look at the world of officiating and player safety within the National Hockey League, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world. We'll break down the calls and the rules behind them to help understand why a penalty or suspension was - or wasn't - handed out. Todd Lewis is a veteran broadcaster covering the NHL and other major league sports. Lewis is a former host on the NHL Network and on NHL Network Radio. He's also worked for TSN, Sportsnet as a host/anchor and is a producer of other programs. Josh Smith is the founder of Scouting the Refs, the leading independent site related to hockey officiating which follows hockey officials across the NHL, AHL, ECHL, and other leagues around the world, including news, rule changes and interpretations, suspensions, and statistics on officials and penalty calls.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The NHL's Department of Player Safety hands out the first suspension and fine of the season, with two games to Howden and $5K to Danault. Kneeing and high-sticking calls downgraded after review, Bedard goes bucketless, and retired OHL/AHL linesman Kevin Hastings joins the show! Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads.. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stone gets walled, Cole gets clipped, and Crosby shares his thoughts on Player Safety. Todd and Josh also tackle an illegal headshot from Pospisil on Perfetti, a legal high stick, listener email on 'game management', and a 25-game suspension in the WHL. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The NHL's Department of Player Safety gets in some preseason action with a possible fine or suspension to LA's Arthur Kaliyev for kneeing. Todd and Josh also look at a knee from Chicago's Alex Vlasic, some unsportsmanlike language from Mikey Eyssimont, and referee Frederick L'Ecuyer lends the Blue Jackets a hand on goaltender interference. Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads.. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The NHL goes down under with two teams - and four officials - headed to Australia. Todd and Josh break down player suggestions for rule changes from ESPN and The Athletic, including extended power plays, removing the red line, allowing kicks and hand passes, overtime tweaks, goalie gear, high-stick goals, power-play killing on a shorthanded goal, and more. Also, the NHL addresses referees' post-game comments -- or the lack thereof.  Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With less than a month until the puck drops on the 2023-24 NHL season, Todd and Josh discuss the new refs joining the league and the new rules they'll be tasked to enforce. Also, three promotions, two departures, and the first suspension of the new season comes from the OHL. Hockey Canada Officiating Manager Dan Hanoomansingh also joins the show to talk about the Officiating Coaching Program, which looks to help develop those overseeing officials across Canada. Follow Dan on Twitter/X and Instagram (@DHanoomansingh)   Visit scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter/X, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Questions? Comments? Just looking to vent? Call the RefLine and leave us a message at 585-484-REFS!

O'Rourke crosses the finish line on his Route 66 ride, the QMJHL kicks off the preseason under the ban on fighting, NHL Referee Ian Walsh retires, possible new hires to the NHL staff, checking up on coach's challenges, the impact of 'injuries' on the rule book...  and should NHL refs do post-game interviews? Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!  

Retired NHL linesman Brad Lazarowich joins Todd and Josh as we count down the days to the start of the NHL season!  After 30 years in the NHL, 1,971 regular season games, 204 playoff games, and 3 trips to the Stanley Cup Final, Laz has taken over the reins as the Vice President of Hockey Operations for the British Columbia Hockey League (BCHL), as well as the league's head of Player Safety.  Brad talks about the benefits of his dual role, the upcoming BCHL season, his recent trip to the NHL Officiating Exposure Combine, and the challenges of running an independent league that operates outside of Hockey Canada.  Take a listen before the BCHL Exhibition Games get under way September 3, with the season starting on September 22.  For more on the BCHL, visit bchl.ca.  Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!  

It's Number 9 on Route 66 as NHL Referee Dan O'Rourke bikes for blindness, NHL Officiating Managers take a European Vacation for Summer Exposure Combine, officials forced to choose in BCHL vs. BC Hockey battle, Civian sticks up for the stripes, and reconsidering some rulebook rewrites - including a change to line changes.  Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

School's out for summer?  Not for retired NHL referee Jay Sharrers!  The former NHL referee and linesman -- with over 1600 regular season games, 204 playoff matches, and seven trips to the Stanley Cup Final -- joins us to talk about life off the ice, working as an Officiating Manager in the National Hockey League, memorable coaching interactions, and the upcoming second annual Jay Sharrers Officiating School which takes place this August. The Jay Sharrers Officiating School is a 3-day ice hockey officiating camp featuring classroom curriculum, on-ice instructions, and live-game evaluations. The school is open to grassroots officials (ages 14+) in the host state, neighboring states, and from other parts of North America. All proceeds to benefit a scholarship fund for school participants as part of the Bill McKenna Scholarship Foundation, www.McKennaScholarship.com. For more information and to register, visit:  https://www.mckennascholarship.com/jay-sharrers-officiating-school or check out @sharrers_school on Twitter. Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter, Instagram, and Threads. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!  

It took overtime of Game 7 in the American Hockey League... but the North American professional hockey season has finally come to a close! The trophies have been handed out, and the Hall of Famers inducted - without a new inductee in stripes. Looking at this year's class, the officials left out, and who should be in there. Also another year without an award for the league's top official; who's your Chadwick 'Big Whistle' Award nominee?   More on these topics, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

It's over...  well, almost. While the NHL has handed out the Stanley Cup, the AHL's Calder Cup Final is still going! Todd and Josh break down a pair of Cup Final controversies, including Pietrangelo leaving the penalty box, along with 'continuous play' vs. 'intent to blow' on the Golden Knights' Game 5 goal after the whistle.  AHL Bears' Nelson speaks with the supervisors, the QMJHL cracks down on fighting, Sweden adds hitting to women's hockey, and a possible rule change on icing that flips the trapezoid! More on these topics, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

Breaking down the opening games of the 2023 Stanley Cup Final from head to... knob. Vegas Golden Knights captain Mark Stone's stick job, a high-stick challenge, Barbashev's reverse hit on Gudas, down goes Eichel, and lots of misconduct by Florida Panthers forward Matthew Tkachuk.  More on these topics, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

Take a moment to catch your breath before the Stanley Cup Final, with referee Kelly Sutherland mic'd up, the referees and linesmen working the Cup Final, the first female on-ice official enters the IIHF Hall of Fame, ECHL refs have an easy night, and the CHL looks at three major rule changes for the 2023-24 season -- all around penalties and power plays! More on these topics, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!   Episode Transcript #166 Scouting the Refs is an unscripted audio podcast, designed to be heard. It's a whole lot more interesting to listen to the audio, but we're happy to provide a transcription below. This transcript has been generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain textual or typographical errors.  Full transcript: https://scoutingtherefs.com/2023/06/40183/scouting-the-refs-podcast-166-making-the-cut-for-the-cup-final/   Todd: So I know we're all excited about the Stanley Cup final beginning and finally getting underway, Florida Panthers and the Vegas Golden Knights, but you know Josh? I'm thinking I want to start planning now. What we're going to be doing in the next few weeks when there's no games to watch, because no matter how much I prepare mentally at this point in time in the season, I always suffer from withdrawals after the Cup final is completed and the trophy is handed out. Josh: It's such a challenge, right? We go from the first round where you've got multiple games every night and just there's something going on everywhere at every hour. And the NHL even figured out scheduling this year, so with the games spread out, we could watch a lot of the action. And then it dwindles down a little bit more and now we've had this break of days without hockey, at least at the NHL level, and now the most we'll have is a game every other night. It's starting to feel real, Todd. It's starting to slip away a little bit. The hockey season is leaving us. Todd: It is and that's the hard part. I know the theory is that you start big and that it seems as though like you're kind of being weaned off the drug but it doesn't really work that way. You still suffer from the the withdrawals when it's gone.  Josh: And, you know, the warm temps outside don't exactly help you. The weather's warm. You want to be outdoors doing things, especially with these games on the weekend. You're out and about it's it's hot outside. You've got shorts and a t-shirt on, and then you come back in to watch some ice hockey. Yeah, I I love the length of the season. I love that we have all these games, but when you start to get into June, especially the middle of June, it it feels like maybe we've gone too far. Todd: You know, we'll, we'll get through it. We always do. And there will be the anticipation before long of the new season. This is the Scouting the Refs Podcast. Please make sure you follow us on the social channels. Josh, of course can be found @scoutingtherefs on Twitter and Instagram, you'll get me at @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram as well. Coming up on this week's episode: Kelly Sutherland mic'd up, who made the cut, a Hall of Fame career, and new rules the NHL should be considering. I am very excited to discuss this topic, Josh. Josh: New rules are always interesting, sometimes they have unintended consequences, so you never know how it will play out, but it will be interesting to see. Todd: Okay, so let's get to some of the other stuff before we talk about the potential for for new rules. Four-star review for the video of the Western Conference Series game One. You hear from players, you hear from coaches, but most importantly you hear referee Kelly Sutherland at work out on the ice. We've seen these  videos pop up semi regularly. They provide great insight into what is happening on the ice during the games, and conveniently enough, the bad words are taken out for you. That's why it takes a couple of days to get them out. So Kelly Sutherland, as you've perhaps seen before in some of these videos, is one of the most vocal referees out on the ice. He's explaining to players what he sees after a play. He's telling goaltenders that he's watching for the goalie interference. He's explaining to coaches what is happening out on this. It's it's as if he is a coach out on the ice at times. I think it's a great job that he does. Josh: Absolutely. It's one of the reasons that when they've had the player polls in the past that Sutherland scores so highly as one of the league's top officials. It's not only about positioning and judgment and comportment and all of the things that go in from an officiating standpoint. But from the players point of view, here's a guy who's actually helping you understand where the line is, and he's giving you advance notice before he's calling the penalty. And as a player, that's what you wanna have. You want to know where you stand and and when you're getting too far over the line. And that's what Sutherland does. I think one of his greatest strengths is the communication side of thing of warning guys and when they're getting too close and putting pressure in the crease. Or when it's a potential interference call and things he's seeing out there, so he tries to set that up front and then stick with that standard the whole game. And it's great when you have the mic'd up videos, because then we get to hear some of that dynamic and you see what goes into it before a penalty's actually called. Because he might have been chatting about it for the whole first period, halfway through the second period and a guy keeps at it and now all of a sudden he's blowing the whistle because he's warned him and he's had that conversation and it's one of his strengths. And it's really interesting to hear the types of things that go on. But you're right, Todd, it's almost like he's the second coach out there advising these guys. So he's not just enforcing the rules, but he's he's warning them he's giving them a heads up. He's reminding them of where the line is and when they've gone to far, that's when he has to send them off to the box. Todd: I I love it too. It's not just after the play that he's explaining calls, but as you mentioned, when two players are tied up, he's telling one like, okay, let him go. You gotta let him go now otherwise. You get the interference call and it's just like I don't want to penalize you, but I'm going to have to pretty soon. Josh: Yeah. And it's great in this video, you can hear a nice exchange he has with Keegan Kolesar about a hit that happened and there was a cross checking why he didn't call it and Kolesar's great, super polite there. Just thanking him for it. ‘I appreciate it' is what he says afterwards. So you might not always agree with it, but just giving that explanation and. Letting the guy understand why the call was or wasn't made in a certain situation is immensely helpful. But I don't know if you noticed, Todd, in the clip one of the coaches is on there saying, ‘Nice chat, Kelly.' We don't actually get the content of that conversation. So I don't know if it was something they wanted to keep quiet, or if there were just too many four letter words to include it. Todd: Yeah, that that sometimes the editing can be a little bit tricky on those. Again, I think it provides great insight and good job, I believe for putting those out even if it's 3-4 days after because of all the all the approval that has to go through. So with this video and hearing Kelly Sutherland at work, it is not surprising that he was one of the referees named to work in the Stanley Cup. Final he'll be joined by Steve Kozari, Wes McCauley – no surprise there, Dan O'Rourke, and Chris Rooney. The linesmen are Steve Barton, Scott Cherrey, Brad Kovachik, Kiel Murchison, and Jonny Murray. Congratulations to all for reaching the final. There's no real surprises with any of these names, is there? Josh: No, everybody's been here before, so I can't say that any of them come as a total shock. You've got tons of veteran experience there, McCauley, Sutherland both working their 10th Stanley Cup Final, Rooney with six. Even Johnny Murray, with six. So everybody's been here plenty of times. They all know what it's like, what the pressure entails, what the big games mean. It was not a shock.   I was hoping that some of the younger guys might have made it. We saw Jean Hebert make the Cup Final last year, thought he might have a shot at returning this year, but he and Trevor Hanson, looking to make his Cup Final debut, both left off of the rosters. I thought either one of them could have made it, but who do you cut in their place? This is such a a challenge here. Figuring it out. So you think of – from an NHL standpoint – everything that goes into it and it's your full season, it's your mid season grade, it's your season end evaluation and then it's what you've done each round in the playoffs. So all of that leading up to it and I I think you know, we see and expect who's going to make it. And I I'd say these are like you said, Todd, no surprises here on these crews. Todd: Now, as you explained nicely in a piece on the scoutingtherefs.com website, the final works a little bit differently in that there's not specifically a backup referee at each event and the whole procedure of pairing guys together works a little bit differently as well. Josh: It's interesting to see because all season long we get this rotation of refs. Everybody works the next game with a different partner, typically because of travel, maybe they'll have a back-to-back together, but you're typically working each game with an entirely different crew. Through the first few rounds of the playoffs, that changes a bit because we do see ref pairings and linesman pairings, and often we see that quartet move together through some games. We definitely saw in the conference final where Kelly Sutherland's crew, the same four of them, worked together each game. Once you get to the Stanley Cup Final, they throw everybody back in the hat and basically draw numbers again. So you've got an odd number of referees, which means we're no longer having that pairing; we're having a rotation where the first two guys will work game one, the second two guys will work game two and then they'll start to mix it up after that because of the odd number. So your partner being a standard guy and and maybe at some of them that you've worked together the entire postseason up until now, now you're gonna get a new partner every night. So back to how the regular season works with the rotation. Obviously you're hoping these are your top officials. These are the best of the best. These guys have been consistent throughout the postseason, so it shouldn't matter, but it definitely shakes things up a little bit, so it'll be interesting to see how those tendencies translate when we see a guy where maybe two guys have worked together the entire postseason and now they get to work with different partners in the Stanley Cup Final. Todd: One other note on the referees who are and are not working the Cup Final, and you and I were exchanging messages during this game. But for those that say there is no accountability for officials, yes, there is, because there was one particular game with the Florida Panthers and Carolina Hurricanes, where not one, but two goals were overturned on offside challenges and those two linesmen are not working in the Stanley Cup Final. Now, they were so close. It was microscopic that they were offside plays, but this is the price that they're paying. Josh: Yeah,  and we don't know. For sure if that happened to be the reason or the straw that broke the camel's back, or if there are other contributing factors here in making that decision. But, certainly, it's one of those things that you look at from an officiating management standpoint when you have guys that are frequently involved in coaches challenge or you have referees that maybe are calling major penalties, that they're downgrading after review, maybe it makes you question their judgment a little bit. I'm not saying it's right or wrong and and like you said, these are really close plays, so I'm not even going to point fingers at the officials or or find fault in how it worked out, but certainly the optics of having a call that had to be overturned on such a public stage and in such a critical juncture in a key moment for a goal to be scored or not, you can't help but think that that did put the spotlight on them a little bit more and may have influenced Stephen Walkom's decision. Todd: A couple of non-NHL notes that we should mention as well. Congratulations to Sandra Dombrowski, who now goes by Sandra Frye. She has become the first female on ice official inducted into the IIHF Hall of Fame. Congratulations Sandra on a great international hockey career.  Josh: Yeah. Very nice to see that honor there. The class of 2023 was inducted. We have lots of players from all over the place and another official making it in. And there's very few in the IIHF Hall of Fame. Only eight now, with Dombrowski's edition and mostly European, we don't have an American or even a Canadian official that are yet in the IIHF Hall of Fame, so there's there's still boundaries to hit there, but nice to see Dombrowski get in. She broke plenty of boundaries coming in and making her way up. Even as a hockey player, when she was younger, she couldn't find a team to play with as a woman, so she founded her own and it went from there and she was involved in a lot of firsts. The first unofficial women's game at the World Championship and then the first woman referee of a Women's World gold medal game. So nice to see her recognized for all the contributions to hockey, both as a player as an official and then coming off the ice, working as a supervisor and then part of the IIHF officiating committee. So she's given a lot to hockey and nice to see them reciprocate and and give the honor of putting her into the IIHF Hall of Fame. Todd: So the first North American referee that could go in potentially maybe a few years down the road, you know if that was Wes McCauley, I got to think that the acceptance speech is going to be out of this world because they they let them do that at the presentation, don't they? Josh: They do and they did, and Dombrowski gave a great speech. It was wonderful to hear from her and you could tell how much this meant to her; how much hockey means to her. So it was a great honor, but I just picture Wes being most comfortable with just want to give that speech with the mic on, at center ice in full uniform. Todd: Five for fighting! Josh: We've got an induction! Todd: Perfect. Love it. Okay, also non-NHL-related. Congratulations to the Florida Everblades for their win over the Newfoundland Growlers. They win the Eastern Conference final in the ECHL. They'll move on to play Idaho in the final. That series also opens up on Saturday, June the 3rd. Congrats to the Blades who are going for back-to-back titles. It is the second time these two teams have met. In 2004, it was the Idaho Steelheads that prevailed . It was an interesting game summary in this one. It was a double overtime game as I mentioned, but barely a whistle blown for a penalty. Josh: Yeah, quiet one for the officials, which is —  It's funny, we joked last week on the podcast about how things tighten up and saying that when you get into game six or game seven, we see fewer and fewer penalties and things really tighten up and I think it's on both sides, right? I think it's on the officials. Maybe I don't wanna say pocketing the whistles, cause that becomes a a negative, but maybe calling that standard tightly and making sure everybody knows where it is. But we also see it on the players trying to be on their best behavior because they don't want to be the person sitting in the box that's responsible for a power play goal against, especially when goals are so critical. But this one, Todd, referee Sam Heideman and Alex Normandin called a clean game effectively because they didn't hand out any power plays. They had some penalties. We had a holding minor that was accompanied by a diving penalty, so that washes out; we have no man advantage there. Only one other penalty in the game. And you can thank the linesman for it because it was a bench minor for too many men on the ice. Todd: Now those of us that are familiar with the ECHL and have, you know, seen a few games, is this a first? Josh: It's a relatively well behaved game for these guys. Nice to see how well-mannered both clubs were. I got to watch part of the game didn't see the whole thing, but you know it's one of those things where you don't want to be the guy who messes it up. You're trying to keep it clean. You don't wanna get whistled for anything. You're kind of playing a little more careful, a little, a little safe there, especially in a game that spent a lot of the time tied. I mean from the second period on, the whole third period, the whole first over time, you've got a tie game there. So you definitely don't want to be the guy who puts your team shorthanded. Todd: I'll just end by saying go Blades. That's my hometown team. Okay, now we talked about some potential rule changes that are going to take place. They are taking place in the Champions League in Europe and I think that there's some some of these –  in fact, I like all of them – that could and should be considered by the National Hockey League. Okay, so let's go through them one at a time. First, being minor penalties dealt with the same as a major penalty in that a team that has caused a minor penalty will remain shorthanded, even if the opposing team scores a goal, so you're serving the full two. Josh: Yeah, not a radical change here. This is one of those ‘everything old is new again' kind of moments because this is how it was in the National Hockey League up until 1956. You sat for the whole 2 minutes; you served your time. If they scored once, twice, three times, however many they score in that 2 minutes, you're staying in the box. So I think the Champions League is looking to boost goal scoring here and they also say that they want to make sure punishments are consistent. So yeah, you did the crime you will do the time, no matter how many goals get scored during your sentence. Todd: I don't think that's an unreasonable thing. I know that we had an exceptional power play this year with the Edmonton Oilers, but it still was, what? Just over 30%. So it's unlikely that you're going to score two or three or four goals, but maybe that helps as a deterrent. Josh:  It could because those penalties become a bit more valuable. And right now you're looking at it as you're either short handed for two minutes or you've given up a goal and then you're back to even strength. Now you're definitely going to be shorthanded for the whole 2 minutes, and you aren't capped at just giving up one shorthanded goal, so it does put a little premium on those penalties, which hopefully doesn't put more pressure on the refs when it comes to not wanting to decide the game or factor into the game. You need to call it the same way, it's just that the each penalty call becomes a bit more impactful, potentially. Todd: Okay, also with a delayed penalty, a minor penalty will be served even if a goal is scored while a delayed penalty is pending. Josh: Yep, and I'm good with this one. This is one of those interesting situations where many of the leagues wipe out the goals on delayed penalties. NCAA College Hockey in the US actually has this rule currently where a goal scored on the delayed penalty does not wash out the penalty. If you score on the delayed call, you still get a power play afterwards and the player still serves his time, which now under this other rule will also be a full 2 minute power play coming out of that. Todd: Right. Josh: It's it's pretty interesting at the NHL level and others that penalty just disappears. It never happened. The the guy doesn't have two minutes associated with any infraction. He doesn't serve any time in the box; the entire penalty isn't even recorded.  At the USA Hockey level, it is recorded but not served. So I think it's interesting. I mean, I've rallied before in the past to say they should consider at least booking the guy for the two minutes and making him sit in the box even if you don't give the team a man advantage, but I think this is the most honest way to do it. The delayed penalty isn't a power play. It's an opportunity where the other team can't touch the puck, so it it definitely comes to a benefit to the attacking team. They get to pull the goaltender, they get to maintain possession. So there there's definitely a benefit there, but I've always been amazed that it offsets the power play there. And again I think this is just try to keep balance and keep scoring down, but now you're going to see more scoring because not only will you score on the delayed penalty… or if you do, you'll still get a 2 minute power play. Todd: I like it. I think it's a a good idea and the other one that's being implemented by the Champions League is that a short handed goal erases a current minor penalty. If the team shorthanded scores, then their minor penalty will come to an end. I'm okay with this. I guess it's a bit of a ‘get out of jail' free card. Well, even more of a bonus than that, but I think it will encourage teams to maybe try stuff on the penalty kill. Josh: This is the most radical of them, right? Because everything up until now has been ‘Delayed penalty? You're still going to serve the time', ‘Other team scores? You're still gonna serve the time.' Well, your own team scores. Now you get out of jail free — so you worded it properly, Todd, I think that's exactly what it is. And this one's not looking at the change from a punishment standpoint. This is purely around goal scoring because you're you're hoping that you can get that team to stretch things out a little bit and think offensively, which could open scoring the other way and make those short handed teams a little less defensively conscious because now they want to score. They want to get that time back, especially if it's late in the game, you're trailing, you don't wanna wait out the whole 2 minutes. If you can get this goal, you can get back to even strength. So I think it's an interesting move. I think it's definitely the most radical of the ones that are coming in here and the one I'm curious to see what types of changes that makes to how teams approach being shorthanded and and what the power plays look like. And remember with those other changes, you will be shorthanded the entire time, so you've got that two minutes you can be scored on multiple times unless you do this to end your short handed situation by scoring a shorthanded goal.  The combination of these three makes it really interesting. I feel like it's gonna take some time for teams and coaches to adapt to what the strategy is here and how best to take advantage of this and and how to work it properly. So I'm glad the Champions Hockey League is putting these in place, since these are ones that we've talked about at the North American hockey level and it's the right place to test it. It's this the specialty league. They have limited scope, limited teams, 24 teams this year coming in from all over Europe. So because of the way they're set up, I think it's a great proving ground to see how are these going to work when we first put them in place and then by the end of the season, is it still doing what we thought it would? Or have we seen things change dramatically?  And you know what they then they take a break, they can change it for next year, but at least this is the right place where you can actually try that and see how it plays out before you implement it at a larger scale or at the AHL, ECHL, NHL level. Todd: I have one more that's been suggested, I think by a few people, but I think would be an interesting to be part of this experiment as well. If the team that has is getting the penalty has a choice between being on the man advantage for two minutes or taking a penalty shot. Josh: That's an interesting one. You know, we've, we've seen that come up before in discussions on especially late in game situations. Should it be a power play? Should it be a penalty shot? Todd: Right. Josh:  In the past you look at penalty shot, success rate versus power play success rate and it's not that far off. I mean we've we've seen maybe the penalty shots are a little bit higher, but statistically speaking it's not a huge difference where you see a big swing there, I think it'd be interesting to give teams that option, especially when you've got the full 2 minutes because now. Do you want 2 minutes on the power play where you can score multiple times, or do you want one shot at a breakaway? In this situation, you know if you're trailing in the game, maybe that 2 minutes is valuable and you you'd rather have the penalty shot. Or maybe the opposite is true and you just wanna kill time off the clock and you'd rather have the two-minute power play. I think that'd be an interesting strategy driver there, too, Todd, on how do you approach it because now you've got a power play that could result in multiple goals, or you get to take the penalty shot, which is only one – uses no time on the clock – but do you think your team has a better chance on the penalty shot than on the power play? Interesting dynamic there. Another one where I think it takes time. You you'd have to put that in and coaches would figure out how best to make it work for their team. You know, if you're the Edmonton Oilers this past season, you're taking the power play every time. Some teams with limited success or with a really strong breakaway scoring player there, you might want to take the penalty shot and I think that it just changes things up from a strategy standpoint. Todd: Now you mentioned the downfall.  Coaches ruin everything.   Thanks for listening… or reading. Please like, share, and subscribe to the Scouting the Refs Podcast wherever you get your podcasts:  

Stars' Benn suspended two games for cross-checking, Rank hits the links, five for stomping at the World Championship, double-dipping on Dallas, cup checking Tkachuk, a missed call on Ghost, and possible goaltender interference on the Panthers' series-winner vs. Carolina, and more! More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!  

This Week, Todd and Josh discuss refereeing the sixth longest NHL game of all time, review the Panthers' OT winner overturned for goaltender interference, explain the no call after a high stick bloodies Ekholm, check out a penalty box altercation in the OHL with a happy ending, and attempt to explain hybrid icing.   More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!  

Retired NHL referee Don Koharski returns!  Koho, currently a rules analyst on TNT's NHL broadcasts, breaks down the Pietrangelo slash and the Nurse instigator. He also share some ideas on improving officiating, what the playoffs are like for refs, standby officials, potential rule changes, the evolution of hockey officiating, and how refs can get out of the way on the ice!   More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

Paul Maurice gets on a first-name basis with the refs, Sam Bennett vs. a pair of Leafs in Bunting and Knies; getting away with some unusual missed calls; a pair of big, questionable hits in Eberle on Cogliano and Trouba on Meier; The Athletic's Sean McIndoe dives deep into the rulebook, and NHL agent Allan Walsh on officiating.   More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

Getting officials and Player Safety on the same page, STR on ESPN, the high-stick that wasn't at Oilers/Kings, Makar's interference suspension, Foligno takes a knee... and some phantom penalties, Tkachuk and Lafferty fined for cross-checks, Maroon's boarding non-call, and more. More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!

Retired NHL referee Dave Jackson - currently a rules analyst with ESPN - joins Todd and Josh to talk about the start of the Stanley Cup Playoffs, including how officials are selected and notified, playoff ref pairings, the role of series supervisors, and big plays of the week: Dumba's hit on Pavelski, Bunting on Cernak, goaltender interference, and more!  Follow Dave at @ESPNRefNHL. More on these plays, including video clips and rule breakdowns, at scoutingtherefs.com Visit www.scoutingtherefs.com and follow @scoutingtherefs and @toddlewissports on Twitter and Instagram. Email us your questions - heyref@scoutingtherefs.com Call the RefLine at 585-484-REFS!