Podcasts about Laser

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bad at Sports Episode 947: Justin H. Long Live from the fair circuit heat (not Miami… but spiritually always Miami), Duncan MacKenzie, Ryan Peter Miller, and Tom Sanford catch up with artist Justin H. Long, self-described "original Florida man," to talk boats, comedy, identity, and the strange poetics of nautical culture. Long's sculptural practice moves between deadpan humor and conceptual rigor: a capsized Laser sailboat turned vertical monument, a palm tree replacing its mast, and a title—S.O.S.—that refuses to resolve cleanly into sentiment. From Morse code to yacht club politics, from Spanglish boat names to disaster-relief coolers, Long builds a practice that blends maritime history, Miami mythologies, and a punk-inflected irreverence toward art's seriousness. Also featured in this episode – a CalArts performance art involving chocolate milk vomit, signal flags translating hip-hop lyrics, and why humor still makes the art world uncomfortable. Justin H. Long — https://justinhlong.comDuncan MacKenzie — https://kurasmackenzie.com/Ryan Peter Miller — http://ryanpetermiller.com/Tom Sanford — https://www.tomsanford.art/Lumpen Radio — https://lumpenradio.comFlorida International University — https://www.fiu.eduCalArts (California Institute of the Arts) — https://calarts.eduBaker Hall Gallery — https://bakerhall.art/Spring/Break Art Show — https://www.springbreakartshow.com Design Miami — https://www.designmiami.comKey Biscayne Yacht Club — https://kbyc.orgContemporary Arts Center New Orleans — https://cacno.orgDamien Hirst — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Hirst Nicole Eisenman — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Eisenman The Simpsons — https://www.thesimpsons.comKids in the Hall — https://www.kidsinthehall.ca  

We've known for decades that cigarette smoking increases cosmetic surgery complications.  But not until this week did we understand that vaping, nicotine patches, and even chewing tobacco increases complications 4 fold!  Across the board in all cosmetic suergery procedures all complications, from infections to bleeding to wound problems are all enormously increased - from 4% to over 15% - in people who use nicotine.  So just don't.  We discuss this, as well as the new CDC report about continued problems of complications and deaths from Americans having cosmetic surgery in other countries.  

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

(2) Rebecca Grant describes the proposed Trump class battleship, a nuclear-powered "missile truck" designed for standoff strikes. Unlike traditional battleships, it emphasizes hypersonic attack and laser weaponry. The ship would be highly survivable, defended by Space Force overwatch and advanced electromagnetic warfare techniques.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if your best skin ever had nothing to do with Botox, fillers or even fancy skincare? This week we welcome Dr. Tia Paul, a Harvard- and MIT-trained, board-certified dermatologist—and major skin laser aficionado. As the founder of Balanced Skin Dermatology and Aesthetics in Newport Beach, California, Dr. Paul treats everything from acne, hyperpigmentation, eczema and psoriasis to skin cancer and she has earned over 400K followers on social media.Tune in to find out how to achieve glass skin the non-gimmicky way, as Dr. Paul reveals everything to know about the most effective at-home brightening solutions, how-to navigate the world of professional lasers, and the “pyramid” framework she designed for a brighter skin game plan that won't shock your skin or your credit card.In this episode, we discuss:Hydroquinone, tranexamic acid, azelaic acid, niacinamide — the new rules for skin brightening skincare in 2026Lasers 101 — the difference between ablative and non-ablative lasers, vascular lasers and why the term “laser” itself is one of the most misused words in the beauty industryWhat is laser “stacking” and why Dr. Paul says that combining technologies is where you get the best resultsWhat's all the fuss about Xerf? The new tightening device that's giving people snatched jawlines with zero downtime — Dr. Paul shares her experience.Myth or reality? The truth about lasers on skin of colour — and what to ask before your appointmentWhy the Fitzpatrick scale is outdated — according to Dr. Paul — and what she thinks should replace it to treat a full range of skin tonesDr. Paul's go-to's: The laser that she personally swears by for glass skin, and the favourite sunscreen the derm will be using to maintain clear skin results all summer longDisclaimer: Please note the discussion in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.Get social with us and let us know what you think of the episode! Find us on Instagram, Tiktok,X, Threads. Join our private Facebook group. Or give us a call and leave us a voicemail at 1-844-227-0302. Sign up for our Substack here. Subscribe to our YouTube Channel to watch our episodes! For any products or links mentioned in this episode, check out our website: https://breakingbeautypodcast.com/episode-recaps/ Related episodes like this: K-Beauty Secrets: Dermatologist Dr. David Kim on Salmon DNA, Glass Skin & Anti-AgingStress and Your Skin: Decoded with Dr. Amy WechslerSkincare Terms to Know Before Your Next Dermatologist Visit with Dr. Samantha Ellis PROMO CODES: When you support our sponsors, you support the creation of Breaking Beauty Podcast! One SkinBorn from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS-01 Peptide™ is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code BREAKINGBEAUTY at oneskin.co/BREAKINGBEAUTY. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you. Qualia Life SciencesExperience the most trusted magnesium for purity, potency, and performance. Plus it's non-GMO, vegan and gluten-free making it a choice you can feel good about. Go to qualialife.com/BEAUTY for 50% off. And here's a bonus, use the code BEAUTY for an additional 15% off your order. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode! QuinceElevate your summer wardrobe. Go to Quince.com/breakingbeauty for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Dove Discover the new Dove Serum+ Oil Body Wash — available in “Radiance” with notes of jojoba and monoi flower and “Soothing” with almond oil and sandalwood — at www.dove.com/ca. Now available on Amazon and in stores nationwide.*Disclaimer: Unless otherwise stated, all products reviewed are gratis media samples submitted for editorial consideration.* Hosts: Carlene Higgins and Jill Dunn Theme song, used with permission: Cherry Bomb by Saya
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Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sketch, Kuro, Steven, Laser and returning guest R. Dragon recap Tokyo Revengers eps 15 and 16, Blue Lock ep 16 and the penultimate episode of Rooster Fighter season 1 bookended with some Toonami related news! 0:00:00 - Toonami Schedule Update 0:04:46 - Tokyo Revengers eps 15 and 16 Recap 0:49:44 - Blue Lock ep 16 Recap 1:14:16 - Rooster Fighter ep 11 Recap 1:44:49 - Lazarus Wins Best Original Series at the Crunchyroll Anime Awards

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Keep Canada Weird Jordan and Aaron Airport explore the weird and offbeat Canadian news stories from the past week. In this episode your hosts discuss; Tim Hortons Counter Attacks Dunkin' A Laser, an Umbrella, and a Fool in Regina A Stolen Playground Calgary's Garbage Tornado Series Links Keep Canada Weird Series: https://www.thecanadiangothic.com/keep-canada-weird Send a voice memo: www.thecanadiangothic.com/contact Join the Keep Canada Weird Discussion Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/keepcanadaweird Provide feedback and comments on the episode: thecanadiangothic.com/contact Subscribe to the show: thecanadiangothic.com/subscribe Contact: Website: https://www.thecanadiangothic.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCanadianGothic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecanadiangothic/ Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/thecanadiangothic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join James (from the Watchtower Database YouTube channel) as he shows his good buddy Brian the entire DC Animated Universe from start to finish for the very first time, in the controversial airdate order--so he may view these shows the way human beings experienced them in the far-gone days of the 1900s (and 20-hundreds). Will Brian become a super-fan like James or intensely regret agreeing to do this?This week's episode:"Aftershock""Static Shock"Original release: 9/30/2000Static learns that the person responsible for the Big Bang is Edwin Alva, the city's philanthropic billionaire businessman, but his efforts to gain evidence are hampered by Hotstreak, the bully from the pilot, himself transformed by the gas mutagen.Timecodes:0:00 - Intro12:48 - Review and Ratings1:05:10 - Yoppie Mail1:31:56 - OutroGoogle Form for the next live show!https://bit.ly/yoplocationNext episode:"Inqueling" (Batman Beyond)DCAU Airdate Viewing Order:https://www.watchtowerdatabase.com/resourcesSend us an email!batwagonpod @gmailBuy us a coffee!https://www.buymeacoffee.com/yoppieBuy a Yoppie Dude T-Shirt!https://www.watchtowerdatabase.com/shopSpecial thanks to our yoppie community!Dylan Pollack, Movies to Watch Before You Diehttps://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/moviestowatchJordan Blueman, The Fandom Optimistshttps://open.spotify.com/show/2GyhxgiZR64XcDmIjQMoezHosted by:James StreckerBrian ManeelyEdited by:James StreckerMusical themes by:Kimi LevoeKuni PhoenixJordan BluemanEric LeBowViltsuLegacy Michael AllenKathleen StreckerBrian ManeelyJames StreckerNew episodes debut Fridays on our YouTube channel and your favorite podcast feed!https://www.youtube.com/@BatWagonPodSubscribe to the Watchtower Database for more DCAU videos!https://www.youtube.com/watchtowerdatabaseHang out with us on Discord!https://discord.com/invite/RWZ7TaxAar

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las cuatro de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las tres de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las dos de la mañana

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las seis de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las siete de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las ocho de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las nueve de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las diez de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las once de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 21 de mayo de 2026 a las cinco de la mañana.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las ocho de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a la una de la tarde.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las doce.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las ocho de la tarde

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las siete de la tarde.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las siete de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las cuatro de la tarde.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las diez de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las once de la mañana.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las dos de la tarde.

Resumen informativo con las noticias más destacadas del 20 de mayo de 2026 a las seis de la mañana.

CreepGeeks Podcast Episode 360 INTRO  You're listening to CreepGeeks Podcast! This is Season 10, Episode 360 Japanese Robot Wolves, Smart Neandertals, Lefties Do it Right, and Wanted Director of Paranormal Affairs? Welcome to CreepGeeks Podcast! We broadcast paranormal news and share our strange experiences from our underground bunker in the mountains of Western North Carolina.  THIS EPISODE IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY BARLEY'S BITES Barley's Bites Barley's Bites is dedicated to providing top-quality, home-made dog treats for every doggo to enjoy. Our treats are made with fresh, healthy ingredients and no harmful chemicals, ensuring your pet receives the best possible nutrition.  Jack loves them, and the dog neighbors approve. Made in New Mexico! Thanks, Kristen and Dave, for sending Jack and us some tasty treats! Barley's Bites: Exclusive offer for CreepGeeks Listeners- Barley's Bites would like to offer all CreepGeeks Podcast listeners 20% off their orders with code "CreepGeeks" at checkout. Your favorite anomalous podcast hosts are Greg and Omi Want to support the podcast? Join us on Patreon:  CreepGeeks Paranormal and Weird News is creating Humorous Paranormal Podcasts, Interviews, and Videos!  Get our new Swag in our Amazon Merch Store:  https://amzn.to/3IWwM1x  Get Starlink for Rural Internet Access-  Starlink | Residential Hey Everyone. You can call the show and leave us a message!  1-575-208-4025 Use Amazon Prime's Free Trial! Did you know YOU can support the CreepGeeks Podcast with little to no effort? It won't cost you anything!  When you shop on Amazon.com using our affiliate link, we receive a small percentage.  It doesn't change your price at all. It helps us keep the coffee and gas flowing in the Albino Rhino!  CreepGeeks Podcast is an Amazon Affiliate CheapGeek and CreepGeeks Amazon Page's Amazon Page    Support the Show:  CreepGeeks Swag Shop!  Website- CREEPGEEKS PARANORMAL AND WEIRD NEWS Hey everyone! Help us out!  Rate us on iTunes!  ‎CreepGeeks Paranormal and Weird News Podcast on Apple  WARNING: This Podcast May Contain Bioengineered and Cell-Cultivated Food Products. Stanley Milford Navajo Rangers Book- The Paranormal Ranger: A chilling memoir of investigations into the paranormal in Navajoland https://amzn.to/3ZhzG8m  Interested in Past Lives or Past Life's Journeying- RC Baranowski. Past Life Journeying: Exploring Past, Between, and Future Lives Past Life Journeying: Exploring Past, Between, and Future Lives - Kindle edition by Baranowski, R. C.. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.  Over on our Patreon-  Patron's Messages-  Welcome, Patrons and new Patrons-  New Lake Shawnee Haunted Amusement Park Video is available! Brown Mountain Lights Brown Mountain Lights Geological Survey- Here's a thought: Are Brown Mountain Lights caused by lithium? 1-800 Number Comments-   Fate Magazine - Fate Magazine  Did you know that #creepgeeks is ranked- FeedSpot- 10 Best North Carolina News Podcasts You Must Follow in 2025  10 Best North Carolina Technology Podcasts You Must Follow in 2025  GoodPods- Best Fortean Podcasts [2025] Top 3 Shows - Goodpods  Best Bigfoot Podcasts [2025] Top 30 Shows - Goodpods  Greg's Pen Tangent -The Sharpie S-Gel in Copper:  https://amzn.to/4gNatda  CreepGeeks Podcast NEWS: Omi-  Into the Shadows of McDowell County  Haunted Hollers of McDowell County  What are we doing, what're we up to? CreepGeeks Podcast has won its copyright debacle. Digital Audio Player:  FIIO Snowsky Echo Mini https://amzn.to/4n8rQYh  Omi is a big-time artist and is busy. North Carolina artist creates 'Bluebirds of Hope' from glass shattered by Helene | Fox Weather  One Artist Picks Up the Pieces | Our State  Greg is pushing forward in his quest to own his own digital content. Greg celebrated his YouTube Channel's 15th birthday! Listener Messages- We just bought some Barley's Bites for our white shepherd - thanks for the promo code! You had me laughing on your description of the Brits. I am a Southern Belle married to a Brit - well, a Scot. Having lived in the UK and here, you nailed it in terms of their food, washing machines in the kitchen, and I could easily list a whole bunch of other stuff that is so different. The feelings that they (the Brits) are better than everyone else is real - until they marry an American and live here - quite the humbling experience for them. We live in central North Carolina and the hubs DIES every summer with the heat and humidity. Back to the food though, I'm also half Puerto Rican and so, we like a little spice to our food. This was a major adjustment for the hubs, but now, he's all about Southern comfort food and the Latino heat. Every once in a while though, he goes and stocks up at the Scottish grocery store in Greensboro LOL (Ma heed needs a break darlin' - he says)  Last Episode FollowUp:  Missing Scientists- Jemez Mountains, Boulder through the Back Window? Loa Alamos is close enough Missing scientist's shattered car sparks chilling mystery in remote New Mexico mountains | Daily Mail Online  Weird: Manufactured Food Shortages Will Continue- Walmart Is Being Accused Of Significantly Hiking Up Meat Prices  Weird NEWS: Weird True purpose of Egypt's Great Pyramid challenged by new theory ancient wonder is a 'planetary beacon' | Daily Mail Online  Japan 'robot wolves' in high demand to scare off bears   Robot in Warsaw chases Boars  Who Were The 'Butterfly People' Children Said They Saw During The 2011 Joplin Tornado? Scientists Figured Out How Smart Neanderthals Were (We Were All Wrong)    Lefties Do it Right! Why is almost everyone right-handed? Scientists finally SOLVE the mystery - and say the answer may lie in how we learned to walk  TIKTOK TRASH CIA Codes / Grabovoi Codes https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTk4yPyCg/  Data Centers  Nearly 50,000 Lake Tahoe residents have one year to find new power as their utility pivots to data centers | TechSpot  A data center drained 30M gallons of water unnoticed — until residents complained about low water pressure - POLITICO  Cryptid:  SIU's Sharp Museum seeking cryptid-themed art for juried exhibition  Bigfoot sightings-  Alasquatch Beans  UFO /UAP Goldie Hawn gives new detail about meeting silver triangle-headed ALIENS who touched her face: 'Like finger of God'  Kurt Russel reported the Phoenix Lights Paranormal: Georgia City Seeks 'Director of Paranormal Affairs'  Animals/Follow Up: Accused Witch Doctor Summons Swarm of Bees to Courthouse in Uganda?  *AD BREAK* READ: If you like this podcast, subscribe on YouTube, follow on Spotify, review on Apple podcasts, support on Patreon, and connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @CreepGeeks.  LIBSYN AD *AD BREAK* Bumper Music- SHOW TOPICS: AD- Want to Start your own podcast? https://signup.libsyn.com/?promo_code=CREEP    Looking for something unique and spooky? 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Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Researchers conducted a study to determine if laser acupuncture was a viable alternative to electroacupuncture for treating thoracolumbar pain in horses. Read the full article: https://equimanagement.com/research-medical/sports-medicine/laser-acupuncture-vs-electroacupuncture-for-equine-back-pain/This magazine article has been transformed for your listening pleasure using AI resources.Mentioned in this episode:EquiManagement on Audio All the articles you have come to love in EquiManagement Magazine are now available in this podcast for free. Each article is released as its own separate episode to make them quick and easy to listen to. EquiManagement always has the latest insights on equine health, veterinary practice management, and veterinarian wellness.

Send us Fan MailNext Level is back… but this year, it's bigger than lasers.In this episode of The Riley Black Project, John and Crystal sit down with Will and Mark to talk all things Next Level Maker Con 2026, the shift from Next Level Laser Conference to a broader maker-focused event, and why this year's theme of “Refreshed” matters more than ever.We dive into:• Why the event changed from laser-focused to maker-focused• What “Refreshed” means for makers, creatives, and business owners• Why taking care of the maker matters just as much as growing the business• What to expect at the Gaylord Texan Resort in Grapevine, Texas• The value of smaller conversations, networking, and community• Why video access to classes is a huge win for attendees• The new Creator's Corner and content creation spaces• Free professional headshots for all-access attendees• Breakout classes covering AI, pricing, marketing, Etsy, Shopify, garment decorating, UV printing, sandblasting, 3D printing, packaging, branding, and more• The charity partnership with Wipe Out Kids Cancer• Why Next Level feels more like a maker family reunion than just another conferenceWhether you're a laser owner, UV printer, crafter, designer, content creator, or small business owner, this episode breaks down why Next Level Maker Con is becoming one of the must-attend events in the maker community.

Photobiomodulation Stroke Recovery: How Laser Therapy Is Restarting Damaged Brains After Stroke For seven years, a woman lived unable to remember faces. She had developed prosopagnosia, a condition that turned every person she met into a stranger, no matter how many times they had been introduced. She kept notes. She took photographs. She built systems to compensate for what her brain could no longer do on its own. Then she sat down for a single laser therapy session with Dr. Robert Hedaya. One session later, the problem was gone. “I can remember the face of the person I worked with this morning and his wife and the dimple on his face,” she told him, describing something she hadn’t been able to do in nearly a decade. What Dr. Hedaya witnessed that day and what he now works to replicate for stroke survivors, people living with aphasia, early dementia, and Parkinson’s, is the result of a therapy called photobiomodulation. And the principle behind it may fundamentally change how you understand your own recovery ceiling. Your Neurons May Not Be Dead. They May Just Be Stuck When a stroke occurs, conventional medicine draws a clear line. Tissue that is destroyed is gone. Deficits that persist beyond the early recovery window are considered permanent. Survivors are told, sometimes gently, sometimes bluntly, that they have plateaued. Dr. Hedaya challenges that directly. In his clinical experience, there is often a population of neurons that survived the stroke intact but are no longer functioning. They are alive. Their cellular architecture is preserved. But they have lost their energy supply, specifically, the ability to produce ATP, the molecule that powers every cellular process in the body. Without energy, these neurons go quiet. They stop firing. From the outside, this looks like permanent damage. But it isn’t. It is dormancy. This mirrors the concept of the chronic penumbra explored in hyperbaric oxygen therapy research, where viable tissue sits in a suspended state, waiting for conditions to change. Dr. Hedaya’s approach is different in method but identical in premise: the brain has not finished recovering. It is waiting for the right signal. Photobiomodulation provides that signal. What Photobiomodulation Actually Does “After the first laser treatment, the problem was gone. Gone. She told me — I can remember the face of the person I worked with this morning.” — Dr. Robert Hedaya Photobiomodulation, also called transcranial laser therapy, delivers precise wavelengths of near-infrared light to targeted areas of the scalp. The photons penetrate through the skull, meninges, and tissue to reach dormant neurons, where they act on the fourth complex of the mitochondrial electron transport chain, the site where nitric oxide accumulates and blocks ATP production. The photons dislodge that nitric oxide. The mitochondria resume normal energy output. The neuron now has what it needs to resume its function. The downstream effects are significant: new synapses form through a process called synaptogenesis, brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) is produced, inflammation decreases, and misfolded proteins associated with cognitive decline begin to clear. Given energy, the brain begins repairing itself, not because the laser forces it to, but because the cells already know what to do. They were just waiting for the fuel. How QEEG Makes It Precise Not every stroke survivor responds to the same laser parameters or needs treatment in the same regions. This is where Dr. Hedaya’s approach clearly separates from consumer LED helmets or generic light therapy devices. Before any laser is applied, he conducts a quantitative EEG, a brain mapping process that measures electrical activity at 19 points across the scalp. Unlike a standard EEG, which relies on a clinician reading scrolling waveforms visually, QEEG uses AI to analyse thousands of data points and reverse-engineer the source. The result is a functional map: which networks are underperforming, which are overactive, and where pathways between regions have broken down. This is paired with a neuroquant MRI that measures 30 to 40 distinct brain structures volumetrically. Together, they function as a GPS triangulating exactly where the laser should be directed, at what wavelength, power, pulse frequency, and joule delivery for each individual patient. These parameters are adjusted as the patient responds, session by session. This level of precision is what distinguishes clinical photobiomodulation from anything available over the counter. A half-watt LED helmet delivering diffuse light through hair and scalp is not the same intervention. Depression After Stroke – And the Whole-Body Connection Roughly 30% of stroke survivors experience depression in the aftermath. This is not simply an emotional response to a difficult event – it is a physiological outcome with identifiable drivers that conventional psychiatry often does not investigate. Dr. Hedaya’s model, which he calls whole psychiatry, treats post-stroke depression as a downstream expression of broader disruption: hypothyroidism, hormonal imbalance, B12 deficiency, elevated mercury from dietary sources, gut dysbiosis, chronic inflammation, and unresolved neurological stress all play measurable roles. In one of his current stroke cases, treating low thyroid function triggered seizure sensitivity because post-stroke tissue is more vulnerable to excitatory input. That kind of complexity is precisely why a comprehensive functional evaluation must precede treatment. For survivors too depleted to engage with lifestyle changes, Dr. Hedaya will now often begin with laser therapy directly. Once cellular energy is restored, the motivation and capacity to make further changes typically follow. The jump-start, he has found, enables everything else. Is Recovery Still Possible After a Plateau? If you have been told you have reached your ceiling, the core message of this episode is worth sitting with: the plateau is often not a biological fact. It is frequently the consequence of underlying conditions that haven’t been identified, and dormant tissue that hasn’t been activated. “The brain is incredibly plastic,” Dr. Hedaya says. “When you challenge it and give it everything it needs, nutrients, light, hormones, and remove the toxins, great things can happen. There is hope. There is so much hope.” His practice, the Whole Psychiatry and Brain Recovery Center, offers initial consultations via Zoom for those who cannot travel to New Jersey. For survivors with a local physician willing to collaborate, educational consultation is also available. Reach Dr. Hedaya at wholepsychiatry.com. If this episode opened something up for you, Bill’s book – The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened follows the full arc of what recovery can become when you stop accepting the ceiling and start questioning it. Find it at recoveryafterstroke.com/book. If the Recovery After Stroke podcast has supported your journey, you can support the show at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. This blog is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your doctor before making any changes to your health or recovery plan. The Laser That Restarts Brains – Dr. Robert Hedaya on Photobiomodulation, QEEG, and Whole Psychiatry After Stroke A laser pointed at the right spot in your brain can restart neurons that stopped working. Dr. Robert Hedaya explains how and who it can help. Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy – Dr. Amir Hadanny Highlights: 00:00 Introduction – Photobiomodulation Stroke Recovery 01:09 Dr. Hedaya’s Medical Journey 07:55 Transition to Functional Medicine 10:31 Photobiomodulation Stroke Recovery Applications 19:21 Understanding Laser Mechanisms 24:36 Jumpstarting Healing with Laser Therapy 29:48 Understanding EEG vs. QEEG 34:10 Addressing Depression Post-Stroke 39:38 Holistic Approaches to Recovery 46:20 Patient-Centered Care and Follow-Up 51:38 The Role of Spirituality in Healing Transcript: Introduction – Photobiomodulation Stroke Recovery Dr Bob Hedaya (00:00) After the first laser treatment, the problem was gone. Gone. She told me, she said, my God, I can remember the face of the person I worked with this morning and his wife and the dimple on the face. And I said, what are you talking about? She says, have prosopagnosia. I said, says, can’t remember faces. I have to write down everything that I do and take pictures of everything and every person. I said, my God, it’s gone, gone. that’s when I went home that night and I was like, this doesn’t make any sense. How could this be? There’s nothing about a neurological condition being turned around in one minute. It makes no sense. Dr. Hedaya’s Medical Journey Bill Gasiamis (00:41) Welcome everyone to the Recovery After Stroke podcast. I’m Bill Gasiamis and my guest today is Dr. Robert Hedaya, a board-certified psychiatrist, functional medicine practitioner, and the founder of the Hull Psychiatry and Brain Recovery Center in New Jersey. Dr. Hedaya trained at Georgetown and the National Institute of Mental Health. And over the course of his career, he moved from conventional psychopharmacology into functional medicine after discovering of what was driving his patient’s symptoms had nothing to do with their medications and everything to do with their biology. In more recent years, Dr. Hedaya has added a tool that very few practitioners anywhere in the world are using, QEEG, guided transcranial photobiomodulation. That’s laser therapy, precisely using a functional brain map to reactivate neurons that survived the stroke but stopped working. In this conversation, we get into the science behind photobiomodulation and what it actually does inside the cell. How QEEG brain mapping removes the guesswork from treatment, why post-stroke depression is so often mismanaged, the role of nutrition, hormones, and toxin load in recovery. and why Dr. Hedaya believes the plateau most survivors are told about is not the biological sealing they’ve been led to believe it is. Now, before we get into this episode, if you found this podcast helpful in your recovery, my book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened goes deeper into the tools and mindset shifts that support long-term recovery and personal transformation. You can find it at recoveryafterstroke.com/book. And if this show has supported you, you can support it at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Now let’s get into it. Bill Gasiamis (02:38) Dr. Hedaya. Welcome to the podcast. Dr Bob Hedaya (02:41) Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Bill Gasiamis (02:43) It is a very good pleasure to have you here as well. The reason being is because I, what we’re going to discuss, but B the way that you came to be on my podcast was through somebody who listens to my podcast, reaching out and saying, need to have this gentleman on your podcast. And I get that a lot. And sometimes it’s like, thank you for the referral, but maybe that’s not for me, but this is definitely for me. Can you give me a little bit of. Dr Bob Hedaya (03:01) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Bill Gasiamis (03:13) background for people who are listening to understand how it is that you and I came to be on the podcast today, but more importantly, like your medical journey to today. Dr Bob Hedaya (03:26) Well, so first of all, I ⁓ was treating a woman who was, let’s say, about 50 years old. She had several strokes. And her husband looked me up, and they came here for treatment. in New Jersey. And ⁓ she had significant improvement in her ability to speak over a short period of time. That’s a little. kind of summary of the situation, but it was ⁓ profound. She still has work to do, a lot of work to do, but she’s doing it and she’s progressing nicely. So that’s, he basically, I guess, decided this needs to get out. And so he contacted you, et cetera, et cetera. In terms of my journey, ⁓ that could take a few hours. So let me try and summarize it. I will say I basically went to medical school, took off six months to study medicine on my own after two years because I really, lot of reasons, but one of them was I just was memorizing things and I didn’t really understand what I was doing. And so I took off six months and I really learned about the human body. I studied, I had a schedule, a very fixed schedule, about 10 hours a day of studying and exercise and eat. was very, you know, I was young and regimented. And I had six books, six subjects that I wanted to get through and I did. And I learned all about the body and different parts of the body, how they interact with each other. And also I was able to understand and predict even certain kinds of processes and problems in the body. So that was an integrative experience, which ⁓ later really served as the foundation for what I do. Fast forward, I was going to be a surgeon, decided to be a psychiatrist instead, because I was fascinated by by the human mind. And what happened was I was trained at Georgetown National Institute of Mental Health in Washington, DC. And then I was in practice for about a year. And I was treating a woman who had panic attacks. And they weren’t getting better after a year. And panic attacks are pretty easy to treat. And so I was like, what’s going on here? She paged me one night after a year, Saturday night. And I remember I had a little beeper, you know, and I went to find a phone booth and, hey, Joanne, what’s going on? It’s midnight, right? She’s talking to me, I’m having a panic attack. And I mean, I still remember the anguish in her voice. You know, it was really, really, really rough to listen to. So Monday morning, I went into the office very early and I’m like, I’m missing something. What am I missing? So I found I had one piece of blood work. had a blood count and the size of her red blood cells was large. and I had seen that and didn’t know what it meant and ignored it. Very little. It wasn’t very large. It was just a little bit out of the norm. And I was trained in hospitals. know, in hospitals, you don’t worry about the little things. You worry about the train wrecks, right? So you never really learn what the little things mean. So here was a so-called little thing and it was ruining her life. Meanwhile, I did some research. It was a B12 deficiency. I gave her B12 injection. And with the first injection, her panic was gone. Transition to Functional Medicine I mean, gone, gone, gone. And I was like, whoa, what else am I missing? Because psychiatry, neuropsychiatry, it’s a revolving door. You go to this doctor, you take these meds, you do this therapy. That works for a while, then you go somewhere else. I figured I’m missing a lot of stuff. And basically, ended up learning. I didn’t know it was called functional medicine, but I ended up learning functional medicine on my own. Wrote a book, got introduced. to Jeff Bland at IFM. contacted me and took formal training and then, you know, that was what I was doing. And I did that, ⁓ put out a second book ⁓ and that was a best seller. And ⁓ the book was called the Anti-Depressant Survival Program. But really it was functional medicine psychiatry or whole psychiatry, which I like to call it. But it’s functional medicine psychiatry, but the publisher wanted… you know, a nice fancy title that would, know, so they decided to call it the Anti-Depressant Program, you know, survival program. Anyway, the best seller and we had thousands of phone calls, we had a lot of publicity and I couldn’t obviously see everybody. So I picked people who had treatment resistant depression and people who had the resources and the motivation or the support to be able to do what they needed to do. And I just treated them with functional medicine. And at this time, you’ve got to realize I was a psychopharmacologist. I was also trained as a psychopharmacologist. So I was doing a lot of psychopharmacology. I mean, a lot. And now I’m doing functional medicine on everybody. And after about three years, I’m noticing that I’m not actually doing that much psychopharmacology anymore. And everybody’s getting better. And the diabetes is going away. and osteoporosis is going away and one woman’s MS lesion in her brain went away and I’m like, what’s going on here? You know what? I might be lying to myself. So maybe I’m paying attention to the positive cases and I’m ignoring the negative. So I hired a statistician to go over all my cases over the course of this period of time, it two or three years. Ended up in 23 cases of treatment resistant depression. ⁓ I wasn’t lying to myself. Every single person went into recovery, not partial remission, not 50 % better, fully recovered by 10 months, every single one. And I was just blown away that, you know, I mean, I was blown away before, but then it was like, well, you’re not really lying to yourself. So that’s what I was doing until 2014 when I retired. I had actually an inaccurate diagnosis. I retired and… turned out it was incorrect. So it was actually really good to be retired, although I missed it terribly, really missed medicine terribly. But it gave me some time. And this is where this kind of starts to relate more to your audience. ⁓ I’m sitting on a hammock for six hours reading a book. Well, you can’t do that when you’re in practice. Bill Gasiamis (10:07) Good thing to do. Yeah. Photobiomodulation Stroke Recovery Applications Dr Bob Hedaya (10:13) That doesn’t happen. So but I was you know in retirement, so I’m reading this book and put two and two together over the course of time and I learned about laser which which they were using in Russia in 1980s and learned how the laser worked and And I was like whoa this could really help the brain and Then I was thinking now. I’m not in practice right, but I’m then I’m thinking but how would I know where to? point the laser in the brain for a patient. And then I keep reading in the book, and then they start talking about in the next chapter about quantitative EEG. And I’m like, oh, that’s how I would know. So I spent the next three years or so actually studying these methodologies. And then in 2017, I want to say, or 2018, I treated my first patient who had early dementia. published this case actually. I was treating her for early dementia. And I had treated her for six months with functional medicine, know, hormones and treating infections, et cetera, et cetera. And she really was much better. And then I was ready to do my first quantitative EEG. And she’s doing much better. She still has some symptoms. And I do the QEG. And actually, if I could share my I don’t know if I can, Okay, so basically what I just sent you is ⁓ how her brain looked after six months of functional medicine, right? So I was shocked because I thought her brain would look much better. And then I said, okay, let’s do the laser. So I knew where to point it because the QEG and this was the shocker. With the first laser, she had a problem. before the laser treatment of facial blindness. I don’t know if you know what that is. It’s people who can’t remember faces. They just met someone, they can’t remember the face. It’s called prosopagnosia. She had acquired it seven years earlier. Bill Gasiamis (12:11) I do. Yeah. Dr Bob Hedaya (12:21) After the first laser treatment, the problem was gone. Gone. She told me, she said, my God, I can remember the face of the person I worked with this morning and his wife and the dimple on the face. And I said, what are you talking about? She says, have prosopagnosia. I said, what? What is proto-diagnosia? I don’t know what that is. She says, can’t remember faces. I have to write down everything that I do and take pictures of everything and every person. I said, my God, it’s gone, gone. that’s when I went home that night and I was like, this doesn’t make any sense. How could this be? There’s nothing about a neurological condition being turned around in one minute. It makes no sense. But then I realized, I reasoned it out, realized, well, she had a population of neurons that were kind of alive, but they were not really functioning. And then I kind of jump started them with the laser and they went about their business and did their job. Bill Gasiamis (13:19) I love it. So, that’s a contrast on what you’re doing as in psychiatry, because psychiatry from, you know, my understanding is, you know, if you, if you speak to somebody who’s been through psychiatry and you ask them, how’s your condition or how is your situation or what has improved, very few people can say, ⁓ well, I’m, I’m better. I’ve overcome it. We’ve moved beyond the resolve that Dr Bob Hedaya (13:27) Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (13:47) Nobody really does that. They kind of just continue to go through the motions of another appointment, another medication, another adjustment in the amount of medication, et cetera. And what you said also seems a little bit ridiculous and kind of too quick. How do you get that kind of a solution that’s meant to take ages? You’re supposed to go through the typical times and it’s supposed to be costly and Dr Bob Hedaya (14:06) Too quick. Bill Gasiamis (14:16) unattainable and all these things. And it makes people feel sometimes I know stroke survivors who come across promises like that from other ⁓ people who talk about ⁓ perhaps ⁓ non-studied, ⁓ no scientific background kind of solutions to stroke and then kind of give everyone a blanket. If we do this, we’ll fix your stroke deficits, which is not true. ⁓ And then And then it leaves people feeling like they got ripped off. If they paid money, it leaves people lost for hope that there is no hope, cetera. And we kind of find ourselves in a, okay, desperate, what do we do now situation, right? And that’s kind of why I got excited when your patient’s husband reached out and said that we should chat. And I had a bit of a look into the kind of work that you do. ⁓ Functional medicine, I’ve heard about heaps. Dr Bob Hedaya (15:00) Hmm. Bill Gasiamis (15:14) And I love that it’s merged with psychiatry because when I started my journey in 2012, overcoming the first brain bladed and the second brain blade six weeks later, I went into functional medicine study to find out not formally, but I started doing what I didn’t know at the time was studying functional medicine and understanding like how I can decrease the inflammation in my brain. and provide the right environment for healing. And the first thing I came across was a book by somebody that you’re gonna know, Mark Hyman. And the book was, ⁓ the book was, ⁓ Eight Fat Get Thin. I read it, not wanting to get thin, I read it ⁓ because it ticked the boxes for the diet that I was gonna use to reduce inflammation in my brain. Dr Bob Hedaya (15:54) Okay. Bill Gasiamis (16:12) And the side effect was I thin. I wasn’t going for that because I was taking medication. was taking ⁓ dexamethasone, which made me put on weight and made these like all these types of ⁓ terrible side effects, but it was helping reduce the inflammation in my brain. So I, I was happy to have it, but I needed to achieve the same outcome as dexamethasone. Dr Bob Hedaya (16:13) I’m kidding. Bill Gasiamis (16:41) or a similar outcome as dexamethasone on a permanent basis without taking dexamethasone to improve the situation in my brain. And then I started to realize that I had a lot of power and I was ⁓ only not guided properly because my physicians, my doctors weren’t able to offer advice in that space. And had I not been the curious kind of guy that I was, I never would have come across Dr. Hyman and some other amazing guys who wrote books at around about that time that were similar in nature. so you’re, and then, and then a little while later, I found there was a Tasmanian, ⁓ psychiatrist, forget her name, but I have her book on my shelf upstairs who wrote a book about, ⁓ psychiatry and food and, the link between food and a good psychiatric outcome. Dr Bob Hedaya (17:15) huh. Bill Gasiamis (17:39) in the brain. And I just thought, okay, there’s much, much more that needs to happen here. Now, this the connections, there’s a lot of connections here. So recently on my YouTube channel, somebody left a comment I wanted to know about red light therapy, and will it help their brain? And I’m like, I have no idea. But let me do some research. I went on to PubMed, I found some articles and wouldn’t you believe it, there is a whole bunch of ⁓ proper data that Dr Bob Hedaya (17:40) You know what? Come on. Bill Gasiamis (18:08) suggests that there is a benefit. The only challenge that I always have with all of these potentially beneficial interventions is there’s no diagnosis done in the first place to determine whether somebody actually is eligible for a particular intervention. And what it sounds like you’re able to do is the diagnostics part and determine their eligibility. Tell me a little bit about why that is important. Dr Bob Hedaya (18:35) Right. Okay, so let me back, I wanna back up, because you said something very important, then I wanna reiterate it. I just gave you before a case of a woman who in five minutes, her problem was gone, right? Not, people should not think that’s the norm, okay? Not the norm. Occasionally it happens, I have a guy who had a head injury and had light sensitivity and confusion in certain situations with light, and one treatment, boom, gone. Understanding Laser Mechanisms People, you know, I have cases like that, but most of the time this is a gradual process. So people should not think it’s a cure-all for everybody. We do have to know who it’s good for. So what we do diagnostically before we do this is I will look at their brain, you know, obviously take some history and all of that business, but we do a quantitative neuroquant MRI. So we look at the different structures inside the brain. You know, we look at… Bill Gasiamis (19:32) Lovely. Dr Bob Hedaya (19:32) 30, 40 different structures. And then we also do a quantitative EEG, which is an electroencephalogram. We measure the electricity in the brain in 19 different places. And then there’s this really AI that takes all this data and it reverse engineers it. It’s called the inverse solution. And you can actually see the pathways, all of the pathways in the brain and the surface areas of the brain. And you can look at that, correlate that with the person’s symptoms. with the neuroquant MRI, it’s like a GPS, right? A triangulation of information and then assuming there’s not a mass or an aneurysm or some reason not to do the laser like an overactive brain or something like that, then we could consider using the laser. And then we also know where we want to do it based on the symptoms, based on the QEG, based on the neuroquant. We will decide what we’re going to target. And then we combine that, sometimes, not always. Bill Gasiamis (20:05) Hmm. Dr Bob Hedaya (20:31) with neurofeedback so we can exercise the areas that we want to exercise or calm down the areas that we want to calm down. And sometimes with hyperbaric oxygen, things like that. And hormones, using hormones or things like that. Bill Gasiamis (20:42) Yep. Hyperbaric oxygen has been a topic that I’ve discussed as well on the podcast and the people that I spoke to about hyperbaric oxygen and guys, I can’t remember right now, but I’ll put a link in the show notes for anyone listening so that you can go and find that episode and have a listen to it. Basically, what I loved about their approach was that they did a massive amount of diagnosis beforehand to determine where the penumbras were and then target those penumbras while the person was in the chamber. by getting them to do certain exercises that would activate those areas and therefore be targeted. So it sounds like the laser therapy is similar. Tell me about the laser. What kind of a laser is it? How does it get targeted to a specific spot? And what does it do when it goes there? I mean, I imagine it just doesn’t point there and go, I’ll illuminate that and it’ll be better. How does it actually work? Dr Bob Hedaya (21:18) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, so the laser, there are a bunch of different parameters that we have to adjust for each person. So it’s the frequency, how fast is the wavelength? What’s the wavelength? How many times per second is it pulsed? 10 times per second, 40 times per second, 50 times per second. Is it a 8, 10 nanometer wavelength or is it a 1064 wavelength? How many joules are we delivering? you know, where are we delivering it? So there are lots and lots of parameters to adjust, right? ⁓ What does it do? So simple, the first thing that it does, it does many, many things, right? But the very, very first thing it does is it actually releases ATP, the energy molecule, from your mitochondria. So it basically, the photon goes to the fourth channel, the fourth complex in the mitochondria, bumps off the nitric oxide, and that opens the flow of ATP. Well, if your brain, if your neurons have energy, they say, ⁓ energy, ⁓ well, we know what to do with energy. Let’s fix the puddles. Let’s build the roads. Let’s make the connections. Let’s do whatever we got to do. So now you’re getting energy flow. You also get synaptogenesis. You build new synapses. You get production of brain-derived neurotrophic factor. Bill Gasiamis (23:01) Wow. Dr Bob Hedaya (23:05) You get reduction of inflammation, get reduction of tau proteins and misfolded proteins. ⁓ You get, subjectively, get cognitive enhancement. aphasia, you know, people can start to speak. I mean, I can tell you one story. We used to shave people before doing the laser because I wanted to… Remember, you got a skull, you got the skin, you got all this stuff, right? How are you going to get the light into the brain, right? So we know that only about Bill Gasiamis (23:31) Mmm. Dr Bob Hedaya (23:35) 2.6 % of the light goes through the skull and the meninges and all the layers, right? So we used to shave people because I want to get the hair out of the way, right? At least get rid of some of it. So I had this woman who came to me, this is probably seven years ago, I guess. And at that time, I would not use the laser until I had done functional medicine on the patient. Because I figured, you know, let’s get the terrain straight. the nutrients, the hormones, get rid of the infections, get rid of the toxins, then we’ll apply the sunlight to the brain, to the plant, right? That was my logic. I thought that made perfect sense. So this woman came to me. She was 70 years old, obese. The husband wanted me to give her the laser. She wouldn’t change her diet, not an iota. High blood pressure, obesity. She could not speak. She would not take a medicine. She would not… Bill Gasiamis (24:04) Mm-hmm. Mm. Jumpstarting Healing with Laser Therapy Dr Bob Hedaya (24:33) Like, you name it, non-compliant all the way. Maybe you could say a word or two, that was it. Her husband begged me. I said, listen, it’s a waste, okay? It’s just a waste. I can’t ask her to shave her head. It’s not gonna work. I’m not doing it. He did not stop. So finally, I said, okay, fine, I’ll do it. So I was in my office and I’m making the laser plan. And I’m just writing, and something pops out of my mouth, God, I need a miracle. So I go into the laser room, and I start doing the laser. She starts talking. I have tears. He has tears. She starts talking. So by the end of like 20 sessions, I’m sitting with her having a 45-minute therapy session, because it turns out she was really severely abused when she was young. ⁓ She’s having a whole conversation with me. Turns out she’s psychotic also now. She’s also a psychotic and we didn’t know. So she needs to take some medicine for the psychosis because in the middle of the night, she’s going around with a baseball bat and she wants to like do, and she wouldn’t take medicines, I had to stop the laser. But that was an amazing thing because that was one, but with aphasia, typically it’s more gradual, much more gradual. But I have had a couple of patients where, and a woman came from Chicago and she just started talking also. So everyone’s different. You can’t necessarily come into this expecting that kind of thing is wonderful when it happens, but you Bill Gasiamis (26:14) Yeah. I love the fact that you can intervene with a laser, but also people can intervene with all the things that you said that that patient wasn’t doing beforehand. And that you that’s the top of the hierarchy of how you approach healing the brain is you do all those things. And then you supplement with ⁓ with a therapy like laser or whatever. And you kind of combine that and you make Dr Bob Hedaya (26:25) Yeah, yeah, you got it. Bill Gasiamis (26:42) like the, you make a soup of amazing things that all come together at the same time to support you together. And laser is just one of those things, but all the hierarchy like is so important because Dr Bob Hedaya (26:48) Yeah. It’s all important, all important. But I will tell you this. I have come to the point now where I believe that like people come to me and they don’t want to do anything and I’m like, okay, because I can jumpstart you, assuming you’re a good candidate. I can jumpstart you with the laser. I could just jumpstart you and then once I’ve jumpstarted you, say, ⁓ yeah, okay, I’ll do this. ⁓ okay, I’ll do a little of this. I’ll do a little. Because I’m bypassing everything and I’m giving you energy. Right? And so if you have energy, then, you know, there’s a lot that you can do that you couldn’t do before. So I kind of switched my model, really, only because of the accident of this guy who insisted I give his wife the laser, you know. Bill Gasiamis (27:30) Yeah. That’s not a way to go. mean, ⁓ there isn’t one way to solve a problem. there’s probably many iterations of, know, like how you can put that particular, like intervention together for a person that could specify for that individual, we’re going to go down this approach for you. You were going to go down this approach to get you going. Since you have all these, ⁓ challenges and energy is difficult. Maybe we’ll go directly with the laser and then Dr Bob Hedaya (27:46) Bye. Mm-hmm. Bill Gasiamis (28:09) We give you the skills, the energy, Dr Bob Hedaya (28:09) That’s right. That’s right. Bill Gasiamis (28:12) the training, the coaching, the support to implement the rest of the stuff that you need to implement to continue providing the right ⁓ space for your brain to heal in ongoing so you’re not just relying on laser. Dr Bob Hedaya (28:14) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah Yeah, if someone comes to me post stroke for example and the laser is appropriate I’m not gonna say well, we’ll get around to laser in six months. I’m not gonna do that They need relief they need help if it can help them Let’s do that. Let’s jump on that and you know, and then is the other stuff we need to do will do it And there’s usually stuff to do ⁓ But I want to get the healing remember the laser is healing It’s clearing out proteins, reducing inflammation, increasing blood flow, synaptogenesis, doing all these good things over the course of time. So you really want to get that process going, I feel, as soon as you can. then, okay, now you can work on the diet that’s going to take some time, check the hormones, make sure there’s no infections, toxic element, you know, all that functional medicine stuff. Maybe you need some medication for depression, you know, it’s having a… a phaser or a stroke or a head injury or some of things like this, they turn your life upside down better than I know. It’s ⁓ incomprehensible, really. Bill Gasiamis (29:26) Yeah, really. Yeah, really challenging. With a laser, how much laser for how long, how often? Understanding EEG vs. QEEG Dr Bob Hedaya (29:37) Great question. So let me say a couple of things. First of all, we have laser and then we have the LED helmets, right? You’ve read about and read the helmets, right? So there are a lot of studies on the helmets. There’s a question of whether they’re really having a direct effect because for a few reasons. Number one, it’s LED, it’s not a laser. Number two, the voltage is so low, if you’re only getting 2.6 % through and it’s so low to begin with, what do you think you’re actually delivering into the tissue? know, it’s hard to imagine that you’re delivering much. there, know, Henderson, I think, wrote an article where he showed there’s no penetration into the brain. But the studies do show cognitive benefit. So it could be an indirect effect or, you know, all the studies are done by the companies that make the… the helmet, there could be some bias. I don’t know the answer there. The laser ⁓ itself is more potent, so we’re doing, say, 30 watts. So the equivalent of a 30-watt light bulb, right? They might be doing half a watt, a very, very, very dim light bulb. We’re doing 30 watts. Now, we’re targeting the area or areas that we want to hit. Now, it goes through 2.6. Bill Gasiamis (30:34) devices. Dr Bob Hedaya (31:03) 5 % of it goes through. And then of course it’s going to be diffused, right? And it’s going to hit the surface tissues more. 1064 will penetrate deeper into the brain, but you don’t really have to go that deep because there’s downstream effects that happen, right? So we really, and then we adjust the parameters depending on how someone does. for example, you know, I had a woman who I was treating And actually it was the patient who her husband contacted you. I was treating her with a certain amount of energy and then after about five sessions I went up, I doubled the energy and boom, she had a response. But we have no way of knowing that’s what she needed. It’s all a calculation. But she, you know… Bill Gasiamis (31:39) Yes. Dr Bob Hedaya (32:00) Whatever it is, the thickness of the skull or the membranes or whatever it is, that’s what you needed and that’s what worked. Bill Gasiamis (32:06) Yeah. Tell me about ⁓ QEEG. So let’s dive deeper into it a little bit because we kind of glossed over it. I think it’s important to discuss how it’s different from EEG, ⁓ what EEG is and then what the Q adds to EEG. Dr Bob Hedaya (32:24) OK, so the EEG, imagine somebody, you put a cap on, and it has all these electrical wires that are measuring the electricity that comes, that’s on your scalp. It’s coming from your brain, but it’s measured at the scalp. And each one is measuring the energy from that spot, comparing it to other spots. And then you might, your viewers might remember. all those squiggly lines, you’ll see like 19 or 20 squiggly lines and you’re like, what is this spaghetti? I don’t know what this is. And I mean, even in medical school, we looked at it and our eyes would glaze over because who knows what it is. So the neurologists look at it and they’ll scroll through it and look for certain patterns to see is there a seizure or is there area of damage where there’s a lot of slowing like the frequency of the electricity slows down if there’s tissue damage, right? And they look visually to see what they can find. But we know with AI, you can get the patterns that you can determine. There’s no way the human mind, the human eye, a trained eye, I don’t care how long you’ve been looking at EEGs, there’s no way you can extract this data that we now extract. So the quantitative is actually looking at the quantity of this, what’s going on here versus the quantity of electricity that’s here versus what’s here versus what’s here. And then all of that is calculated and they say, ⁓ well, if this is high and this is here and this is low here and this is this, well, that means they’re coming from this deeper place here and that’s under functioning. And, you know, that’s done over thousands, thousands of points in a very short order, very short order. It’s amazing. I can’t imagine practicing without this. So now I can look at the thalamus. I can look at the putamen. Addressing Depression Post-Stroke Bill Gasiamis (34:07) Mm-hmm. Dr Bob Hedaya (34:17) In my office, I can do these tests in my office. If a patient is my patient, I can send the QEG to their home and do it in their home. And I get this imagery that’s immensely better than a spec scan. It’s not an MRI, an MRI structure. This is function. Okay, this is function. It tells us how different parts are functioning. Bill Gasiamis (34:40) What’s lighting up? What’s not lighting up? What could be lighting up better? What’s not going to light up anymore? Dr Bob Hedaya (34:45) What’s the information flow? How is the flow going from here to here? How about this network? Is this network working? Is this network overworking? Is it underworking? How about the neuron populations that are firing when I’m relaxed? How are they doing? How about the ones when I’m thinking? How about the ones when I’m thinking fast? How about the populations when I’m emotional? We can look at all those populations and see what’s going on with those populations. And then we can actually target them. train them, et cetera. And then we have that data that we treat, and then we measure and see is it getting better? Do we need to change the protocol? It’s not helping, it is helping, et cetera. Bill Gasiamis (35:29) Yeah. with stroke, so many things come from stroke that people are not equipped to handle. You know, firstly, all of the, ⁓ the parts relating to, ⁓ simply the person discovering them, they’re, they’re immortal after all, you know, you become a mere mortal immediately and you kind of work out the most terrible thing that could have happened to me happened. My brain is injured and all these things go away. Right. And then. Unfortunately, like I think it’s 30 % the studies of people who experienced stroke will then also experience depression. Like as if recovering from stroke isn’t enough and all the deficits that you also have to recover from depression. What’s it like? How can that be supported with this particular method, this approach that we’re discussing here today? Dr Bob Hedaya (36:28) So ⁓ kind of separate from stroke, ⁓ treat treatment resistant depression with laser all the time. With stroke, we use the laser, but you have to watch the QEG to make sure you’re not getting overstimulation, number one. Number two, I learned this with the patient that referred me to you, ⁓ that after, put us in touch, there was actually a central Bill Gasiamis (36:44) huh. for us in touch. Dr Bob Hedaya (36:58) hypothyroidism, meaning the low thyroid function, right? And we had to treat that, but the problem was as we treated that, there was a supersensitivity and because the tissues after stroke are more vulnerable to seizures, the patient actually had a seizure. She was actually having seizures we didn’t know, mild seizures. And then when we treated the thyroid, then we actually ended up having seizures. now we have to support, you need thyroid function to be good in order to not be depressed, right? If you have low thyroid, you’re much more likely to be depressed in the face of a stroke or other stresses. So we were kind of a little bit of a bind there because we went and treated, but it’s too sensitive. So anyway, we’re actually threading that needle nicely and we’re moving slowly and carefully and keeping, there’s no seizure activity now. But you have to treat the depression because of the depression itself. Bill Gasiamis (37:29) Yep. Dr Bob Hedaya (37:55) is a big problem because you know to recover from stroke, man, you gotta work hard. You gotta keep a good attitude. gotta have your eye on the ball. There’s no room for like… I’m going to give up. There’s no room for that. I mean, of course you feel it and I mean, it’s all natural feelings, but you have to really be determined and that’s essential. so with depression that is ⁓ really can get in the way. So we treat it. The laser can treat it. Sometimes pharmacology, sometimes therapy, sometimes yoga, know, hyperbaric, all these things that we do with the nutrition, making sure the hormones are right. All these things work together, you know. Bill Gasiamis (38:14) Yeah. I love all of those things that you mentioned. And then all of a sudden you just throw in yoga. mean, it just, it’s so counterintuitive, isn’t it? When you have a conversation about all these acronyms and all these tests and lasers and all that kind of stuff, and then you just throw in yoga casually like that. It’s, and we underplay it, but it’s such a massive thing in the picture of what creates the environment for a good recovery, but also I love that you mentioned the thyroid in that conversation as well about depression and what can also be a trigger to depression and people may have depression, never check their thyroid and not know that it’s a thing. Now I’ve had thyroid surgery, have ⁓ half of my thyroid removed because I had a massive ⁓ goiter on one side and that was such a difficult thing to discover and have to go through 16 months after brain surgery. but they only discovered it after my brain surgery when they did a chest x-ray, because I wasn’t recovering properly and they found that I had this goitre which would have been there for a long, long time impacting my health and all sorts of things. And I make that point because often people who have had a stroke and can’t speak, for example, have aphasia, ⁓ or their arm doesn’t work or the leg doesn’t work properly, will say, I just wanna fix this thing. If I could speak, Dr Bob Hedaya (39:40) No. Holistic Approaches to Recovery Bill Gasiamis (40:09) everything’s better, but they’ve never looked at the other things that may be contributing to keeping the speech at a level which is not good enough for them, for example, to be comfortable with. And it’s like this one track mind, I’ll just get my speech back, I’ll get my speech back, you what do I need to do? Or make it go, get back for me. There’s often no looking into the other things that might be causing depression, for example. Dr Bob Hedaya (40:31) Thank you. Bill Gasiamis (40:38) After stroke, know for a fact that the gut gets impacted ⁓ very dramatically from a stroke and the gut is highly linked to ⁓ mood and how you feel. And nutrition is what supports the gut to feel better and taking out things from the diet that are ⁓ making the gut sluggish and not work appropriately will ⁓ improve your mood and how you feel. It’ll make a difference and Dr Bob Hedaya (40:59) Okay. Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (41:08) and it’ll add to one of those little tools that supports depression and makes depression less impactful and you have less swings, et cetera. And that’s kind of the point that you’re making is that you don’t just turn up and do psychiatry. We’re gonna do psychiatry, treat you pharmacologically and then send you on your way and then see you in six, 12, eight months again or whatever and then just repeat the process again. It’s a whole, know, holistic is the word that you hear, but it is a broader conversation that people need to be having. And that sounds like what you guys do. It sounds like the conversation doesn’t encompass, it encompasses everything. It doesn’t just focus on one intervention. Dr Bob Hedaya (41:56) That’s why I call it whole psychiatry. But it really should be whole neuropsychiatry or whole brain or, you know, but it’s whole body, whatever you want to call it. It’s really more than the body because obviously the social connections play a big role as well, you know. So yeah, everything you’re saying is 100 % true and it’s all real. Everything you’re saying is real. Everything you do. mean, simple things going back to the B12. You you need B12 to… Bill Gasiamis (41:58) Yeah. Dr Bob Hedaya (42:26) remyelinate your neurons. need to keep the mercury, by the way, got to keep the mercury levels low. know, the mercury, if you’re eating tuna fish or swordfish and you have high mercury levels, know, the mercury will actually prevent you from making new branches. The mercury actually will bind on tubulin, which is like a brick that you need to build new roads. And it will prevent the tubulin from building new roads in your brain. So here you are working hard trying to… Bill Gasiamis (42:28) Mmm. Dr Bob Hedaya (42:54) do things and you’re a can of ⁓ whatever tuna fish with loads of mercury two, three, four times a week. Well, that’s not working, you know. So that’s why you really want to look at the whole thing. It’s a lot. It’s really a lot. You know, it’s a big program, but you you take, take steps. Everybody has different needs or not everybody has to do everything. Bill Gasiamis (43:04) Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody needs to do everything to achieve significant results, but it’d be amazing to be able to find the things and target those, the ones that you’re to get the most bang for buck on. So you’re to putting time and effort into things that are not getting results. For example, an led hat from, uh, Amazon for $9 that you put on your head. And it’s basically just a red light hat. It’s not really doing the thing, right? Dr Bob Hedaya (43:32) Hmm. Ha ha ha. Bill Gasiamis (43:49) And that’s kind of why I started to have that conversation and do a little bit of research in what they, know, what’s medically known as or scientifically known as photo bio modulation, you know, the idea is great, but then it came to me from somebody who I imagine was looking at a seven or eight or $9, $10 cap with red lights that put on the head and they Dr Bob Hedaya (44:00) Right. Bill Gasiamis (44:15) paid money for a cap and hoping for an outcome and they didn’t get an outcome and then they’re wondering why. I suggest when people are looking into those topics, is gonna go and have a look at the science, what it says about the nanometers of the type of light that you need to be experiencing, how, where, who, and always do these things with medical supervision. It really challenges me when I find out people do things like, know, methylene blue was a thing. Dr Bob Hedaya (44:44) Right. Bill Gasiamis (44:45) uh, very recently and people will just go get a bottle of Methylene blue from somewhere and just start taking it and have no idea what they’re doing and, and, and, know, what they could hope for. They could be making things worse than for themselves and actually making themselves, um, like make things a lot harder for themselves. So, uh, my point is this all needs to be done under medical supervision. Typically when you, somebody reaches out to you, how do you begin the conversation and then how does that person engage with you? And then what happens after they’re treated? Because often I know from my experience with all my neurologists, et cetera, very rarely do I see anybody a second time, six months, 12 months, 18 months, five years down the track. You usually go in, they patch you up, they send you home, you get back to your life and then maybe you do one MRI. Dr Bob Hedaya (45:36) Really? Bill Gasiamis (45:44) ⁓ for a few years after brain surgery just to make sure that everything’s stable. But that’s about it. Nobody follows up with you. Dr Bob Hedaya (45:52) No, it’s a whole different ball game with us. No. So what we do first is ⁓ if someone will contact us through the website, which is wholepsychiatry.com, they will actually fill out a form. And if we feel that it looks like we might be able to be helpful to them, then we will send them a welcome letter. And then they will have the opportunity to meet with our new patient coordinator at no charge. Patient-Centered Care and Follow-Up and she’ll talk with them for 15 to 30 minutes and kind of tell them what’s going on and see if they, you know, the fit is good, et cetera. And then they have an opportunity if they want to meet with me on Zoom for 15 to 30 minutes and ⁓ I’ll figure out, can I help them? Can I not help them? Is it a good fit, et cetera? And then if it looks like, you know, green light and they decide they want to move forward and it makes sense, then we’ll schedule an evaluation. The time duration of the evaluation depends on what kind of patient. It could be a couple of hours, could be four and a half hours. But usually for neurological patients, straightforward, it’s a shorter evaluation. And before the evaluation, we’ll collect the neuro-quant and the QEG and the old records, et cetera. And then I will go through all of that data plus lab data that we collect. And I will then have an idea. Okay, what’s going on here? Now there’s all these things. There’s digestion, there’s nutrition, there’s immune function, inflammation, toxins, hormones, all the hormones, structural issues, chiropractic issues, traumatic brain injury, cardiovascular issues, et cetera. We look at all of that and then to see what are the players here and spiritual, social resources, connectivity. We look at all of this. And then we have a whole picture of what’s going on. And then we can figure out, okay, how do we want to approach this? And sometimes we approach it very lightly. Say we just start with the laser, that’s it. Or sometimes somebody says, no, I want to really get in there and fix everything that’s wrong. Okay, well, we identified these five or six things that need correction. So let’s stage this in order. And that’s what we’ll do. And everyone’s different. And then we have follow-up depending on what we need in two weeks, in a month, six weeks, not usually six weeks. Once things are stable, it could be every two, three months or four months. But in the meantime, I’m in the boat rowing, paddling with them. That’s the way I do it. I treat people, really, I try to treat people just like I would want to be treated myself, like I would want my family to be treated. I do the very best. I love what I do, you know what I mean? I just love what I do and I try to do the best, highest quality. And it’s not that I’m perfect, not that I don’t make mistakes, ⁓ not that I know everything because that’s for sure that I don’t, but that’s my approach. So I try to be in the boat with the patient. As long as the patient’s paddling, I’m paddling just as hard, if not. Bill Gasiamis (49:02) Yeah, it sounds like at least if things, if you don’t make the right approach initially, there’s a whole bunch of tools and resources and things that you can kind of focus on. And one of the things you mentioned, again, you glossed over it, but I love that you do this is spiritual. Like it might be a spiritual journey that the person needs to take. And it’s so overlooked because people, you know, do have… Dr Bob Hedaya (49:22) yeah. yeah, yeah. Bill Gasiamis (49:30) existential crisis after a stroke. it’s like a spirituality helps somehow for a lot of people ease, heal that, ⁓ help people move through, you know, the weeds and come out into the opening and then kind of see the opportunities and where they need to go next. And people don’t need to engage with somebody like you to go on a spiritual journey. That might just be something they’ve ever looked and they can just go, you know what, I’m going to pick up the Bible or ⁓ I’m going to learn about this particular ⁓ spiritual journey or whatever and go through it and do whatever it is that they need to do to kind of start beginning the healing journey in their own special unique way. It’s really important that spirituality gets addressed and it’s not glossed over. And I’m not saying that you did or I did or we do, but in the back of the minds, stroke survivors may not consider that being important. The Role of Spirituality in Healing Dr Bob Hedaya (50:31) Yeah, first of all, I’m passionate about spirituality. I mean, passionate because the truth, in my opinion, is that consciousness, your level of awareness is really consciousness is the foundation, the substrate of everything that exists. The material is an outflow from consciousness. So I could talk about this forever. Not everyone is oriented this way. So, you know, I just saw a businessman, very successful businessman ⁓ last week. He doesn’t want to just, you know, get me back online. OK, I don’t want to hear this mumbo jumbo and I just can’t. I don’t want to delve into it. Just get me better. know. But other people are like, I want to find the meaning, you know, and it’s very important. to find the when I think generally for most people finding the meaning in it is critical. And I’ll say one thing, my mother, may she rest in peace, was in the emergency room, probably 25, 30 years ago, I don’t know, something was wrong, she was in the emergency room for seven, eight hours or whatever, and some guy comes by and says, ma’am, can I get you a sandwich? And she says, oh yeah, please, please get me a sandwich. He gets her a tuna fish sandwich, whatever it is, right? He leaves. She’s so grateful. She’s so grateful that she volunteers in the hospital for 20 years. Okay? This guy has no idea what he did and all the people that he helped through her, right? So you’re, you you and you’re not just you, but we, each of us in our small minds, we have no idea. the impact we have on other people. So if it’s important to a person to have a meaningful life, understand that you don’t have to be running a company. You can smile at a stranger, change their day. There are things that you can do and you have an impact. Now, that’s a small consolation when you’re dealing with a stroke, obviously, but that’s when you kind of want to work to a meaningful ⁓ attitude and a good attitude. So yes, the spirituality is… many people very important. Bill Gasiamis (52:54) David who brought us together ⁓ wanted me to meet you so I could interview you. that part of the role that he played in what happened to his wife ended becoming something that helped other people. Isn’t it interesting? The whole journey started on. Dr Bob Hedaya (53:15) Exactly. Bill Gasiamis (53:20) He contacted me because he wanted to make something good come of what happened to his wife, which I’m sure his wife was also interested in. And he said, you need to get Dr. Hedaya on because we need to share more information, make this stuff aware. so, and I’m like, well, that’s perfect. Of course I do. Whoever comes to me with that kind of information because they want to help other stroke survivors because he’s hoping that other caregivers that are in his shoes have a better outcome. They have more support. They have more information. They have more tools. Dr Bob Hedaya (53:27) Mm-hmm. Bill Gasiamis (53:50) That’s the spiritual journey. You don’t have to call it ⁓ Christianity, Judaism. You don’t have to call it something. You don’t have to label it, but that is what spirituality looks like in practice. Dr Bob Hedaya (53:56) Right. Right. That’s exactly it. That’s exactly it. And it gives me chills because, you know, I know his wife is suffering, you know, and ⁓ but she’s making really great headway, but it’s hard, you know. But look at look that he’s reaching out and he cares enough about other people and to and make her journey and what she’s gone through and what she’s learned be useful to other people. That’s it. That’s just beautiful. I mean, that that speaks volumes about him and her. Bill Gasiamis (54:32) It does absolutely and her and your work because your work is not unique. You’re not the only one doing this kind of work. I think there’s only kind of a small percentage of ⁓ medical professionals in the field that are practicing in this way. And hopefully that continues to grow. ⁓ If somebody wanted to, well, somebody lots of people are listening to this today. If anyone wanted to reach out ⁓ who thinks, you know, that they might be able to ⁓ benefit from or go down this kind of approach. How should they go about that? What questions should they be asking of you, et cetera? Like how do they begin? Because this is a different conversation than I have ⁓ neurological injury, have aphasia. It needs to be positioned differently, this conversation. Dr Bob Hedaya (55:29) Tell me what you mean. I’m not really clear what you’re saying. Bill Gasiamis (55:33) If somebody wants to find a clinician who practices the way that you practice, you guys, for example, you know, you know, who thinks about the brain in a different way. What, what should they be looking for and what. Dr Bob Hedaya (55:38) Aha, I see, I see. I would say that they should go to the website for the Institute for Functional Medicine. And there’s a tab. This is find the practitioner. And make sure you look for a practitioner that is certified, fully certified. And then investigate the practitioners who are in your area and see if they experience. in this area. there are not I’m not aware of, there’s a guy somewhere in the Midwest here who’s using a laser, I believe. And then maybe other people that I don’t know about using lasers, but I’m not aware of anybody that I could say, go see this person for this quantitative EEG guided transcranial photobiomodulation. I’m not saying that that is readily available. It’s not. But the whole functional medicine thing, there are a lot of practitioners. And I think that’s the way to go there. Just do your homework. Bill Gasiamis (56:48) Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Your organization is whole psychiatry and the brain recovery center. Is that right? Okay. So the psychiatry part of it, ⁓ people might be listening and going, well, that doesn’t apply to me, the specific word specifically doesn’t need to apply to an individual to engage with you because, we’re not just dealing with the psychiatry part of somebody’s recovery. Dr Bob Hedaya (56:56) Yeah. Right. Thank you. No, no, we’re dealing, we treat psychiatric, but we treat neurological. You know, I started as a psychiatrist. was, you know, certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, but I was doing psychiatry. then, you know, just following, you know, learning and whatever, I ended up, you know, doing some neurology here. And so, but we didn’t change the name to the whole neuropsychiatry and brain recovery. Maybe we should, or maybe the whole brain recovery center or something like that. So, you we do both, no, and if, and if, I can’t be helpful, of course, I’m going to tell people this, we really don’t want to waste people’s time, energy, money, et cetera. ⁓ But it’s, it’s been, you know, I have to say an amazing journey. And I would say when you follow for me, this is me, my life, following my passion of learning about the brain and understanding the brain and Bill Gasiamis (57:45) Yeah. Dr Bob Hedaya (58:14) looking for the fundamentals of how do things work and just there’s a common sense in medicine. I looked at the laser when I was reading that book and I was like, wow, ATP in the brain, that could really help the brain. How would I

The future of war has been evolving before our eyes in Ukraine, yet the west still plans to fight the last war. In this special episode, guest host Noah Smith (@noahpinion) and Brandon Anderson sit down with Yaroslav Azhnyuk (@YaroslavAzhnyuk), a serial tech founder who went from building PetCube to founding The Fourth Law, one of the world's most advanced AI-guided drone companies. Over two hours we cover the technology, tactics, and geopolitics of drone warfare, and why the modern battlefield has already left the West behind:* Yaroslav's personal history and the Ukraine war [00:01:04 – 00:14:01]* The modern drone tech stack: why FPV drones are the new god of war, the future of the rifleman, fiber optic vs. AI, five levels of autonomy, and the eight dimensions of the autonomous battlefield [00:14:01 – 01:05:13]* The geopolitics and economics of drones: China's manufacturing advantage, the drone race, Western defense readiness, countermeasures, and why the gap is widening [01:05:13 – 01:58:57]For those looking for Noah Smith's commentary, it really gets going around the 00:51:31 mark.Yaroslav Azhnyuk / The Fourth Law:* X: https://x.com/YaroslavAzhnyuk* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaroslavazhnyuk/* The Fourth Law: https://thefourthlaw.aiNoah Smith:* Substack: Noah Smith * X: https://x.com/noahpinionTimestamps00:00:00 Cold Open: China's 4 Billion Drones and the Cameras-to-Explosives Pipeline00:01:04 Introduction: Brandon, Noah Smith, and Yaroslav Azhnyuk00:05:41 From Tech Entrepreneur to Defense: PetCube, Brave One, and the D3 Fund00:10:42 The Ethics of Building Weapons: Dual-Use Technology and the Wolf at the Door00:14:01 The Tech Stack: Cameras, Autonomy Modules, Interceptors, and a Semiconductor Fab00:18:47 Fiber Optic vs. AI: The Radio Horizon Problem and $32/km Cable00:25:32 FPV Drones: The New God of War — 70–80% of Frontline Casualties00:28:28 The Five Levels of Drone Autonomy: From Terminal Guidance to Full Autonomy00:41:37 The Eight Dimensions of the Autonomous Battlefield00:45:32 AI Safety and the Morality of Autonomous Weapons00:51:31 The End of the Rifleman? Noah's 2013 Prediction vs. Battlefield Reality01:05:13 China's Manufacturing Advantage and Western Vulnerabilities01:24:21 Policy Advice for Western Defense: Defense Valley and the Widening Gap01:32:54 The Drone Race: Who's Ahead, Category by Category01:41:57 Countermeasures: Shotguns, Jammers, Lasers, and Fishnets01:58:19 The Wedding and Final Takeaway: Be Prepared for WarTranscriptCold Open: China, FPV Drones, and the New Warning SignYaroslav [00:00:00]: Think about this. Last year, Ukraine produced 4 million FPV drones. Ukraine is not the most industrious nation in the world. China can produce 4 billion of these FPV drones.Noah [00:00:10]: Would you say that right now China is now the supreme conventional military power on Earth, given its ability to manufacture and deploy drones in the quantity and quality that you just described?Yaroslav [00:00:20]: I don't think we have all the information to claim that but we cannot count it out, and that alone should be a big warning sign. As I say, at some point in my life I went from making cameras that fling treats to pets to cameras that fling explosives to the occupiers. So that's the short story. And when you think about what your nation, what your patriots are going through, you realize that's the only morally right thing to do is to fight back, and it is immoral not to fight back, and then the choice becomes very clear.Introduction: Yaroslav Azhnyuk, Petcube, and the Last Flight into KyivBrandon [00:01:04]: Welcome to Latent Space. I'm Brandon. I normally do science podcasts, but today we're going to do something a little bit different. I'm joined by Noah Smith of Noahpinion on Substack and Twitter. And he has lots of interesting things to say about drones. And as a guest, we have Yaroslav Azhnyuk, founder of The Fourth Law and several other, drone-related startups. To get started, it is February 23rd, 2022. You are running a pet startup. You're connecting pets with their owners. Let's go in just a little bit of background. How did you get started in tech, and what were you working on before the Ukrainian war started?Yaroslav [00:01:50]: Good to be here. Thank you. On February 23rd, late in the evening, 11:00 PM Kyiv time, my wife and I landed in Kyiv. Actually, then she was a fiance. We came from Lviv, where we were looking at a church, where our wedding should have taken place. And we got into this cab ride from the airport to our home, and the driver was like, “You crazy. Like, everyone's leaving Kyiv. Why do you come?” We're like, “What? Nothing's going to happen. Dude, chill.” And then obviously, eight minutes later, or eight hours later, the bombs fell in the city. It was quite surreal. We probably landed on the last flight that landed in Kyiv, or one of those last flights. My background, I'm a tech guy. Studied applied mathematics in Kyiv Polytechnics, born and raised in Kyiv. My parents are old PhDs from academia, and grandparents too. Like, everything, from linguistics to nuclear physics. And I'm an entrepreneur, so I've built a bunch of companies. Petcube is the one you were referencing. So I lived in San Francisco 2014 to 2020, building Petcube, which is one of the leading, pet device companies in the world, selling lots of pet cameras. And then, yeah, as I say, at some point in my life I went from making cameras that fling treats to pets to cameras that fling explosives to the occupiers. So that's the short story.February 24th: Leaving Kyiv as the Invasion BeginsNoah [00:03:28]: February 24th, I guess a few hours after you, go to check out your wedding chapel, what do you do?Yaroslav [00:03:37]: We had a plan for this situation. So my parents and family live in Kyiv, and we're like, “Okay, this has actually started. The worst has, come true.” And so we basically packed our belongings and got in the car and spent 17 hours driving west. And that was pretty sure most people in our audience watched at least one apocalyptic movie in their life, so that was exactly like that. Like, felt exactly like that. Missiles are falling. Like, there was smoke in Kyiv. Like, my dad and I went, like, to central part of the cities. It's probably, likeYaroslav [00:04:20]: 800 meters from presidential office, to pick some stuff up at his workplace. Because he's, like, the head of an academic institution, so he had to get some of the things with him. And super surreal. Like, the streets are empty. Like, the gas stations are out of gas. Like, we found some gas station. We didn't have, like, spare canisters with us, so we're like, We figured out, like, the car was diesel, so like, we figured out, if it's diesel, you can actually store it in plastic, canisters, and we bought some window wash for the cars. We poured it out of the canisters, and we poured the diesel into that. Yeah, so it was like that. And then, like, helping friends get out, like my friend and his dog. Like, we found Like, my brother was also, like, riding in a separate car. We found a place for my friend who didn't have a car. It was like, yeah, it was like, totally surreal. And we didn't know of course, and you didn't know this will last for so long. You didn't know whether Ukraine will be able to defend Kyiv. And it was like, yeah, very little information and very little insight into future.From Pet Cameras to Defense Tech: Building for Ukraine and the Free WorldNoah [00:05:42]: What are your thoughts with regards to how do you, defend, Ukraine? So you eventually start building drones Like, what is the process to get from there from where you were building, devices that connect owners with pets to building drones, and what other things did you do to help the war effort in the process?Yaroslav [00:06:07]: It's definitely non-trivial, right? Like, I didn't go, to I didn't get any, like, military education when I was a student. Like, normally, in Ukraine, you would, you would go to like, this military school even if you're getting higher education in any other, sphere. I decided to skip that which is like, an unusual way to go. And I never thought that I will be somehow engaged in a war effort. Like, what is war? Of course, wars are over. It's the end of history. So one thing you got to understand about, like, many Ukrainians and like, I guess, it's also true about most of the people I met here in the US, that your who you are in terms of your nationality is a big part of your identity. So when that gets under attack, it's something deeper than just the country you live in gets under attack, right? And I Day one, I figured I'm going to I'm going to fight back with everything I can, right? But I didn't think on day one that I'm actually going to do, weapons. And a bunch of things. We were reaching out to a number of American, congresspeople and senators, and basically advocating for support of Ukraine, for voting for lend lease, which has happened in May 2022, but didn't actually work as expected. We helped start, Brave One, which is now a very important defense innovation cluster, sort of like a DIU here in the US. We helped start, a fund called D3. It's like, it was started or co-started by Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google. So a bunch of these odd things, but then eventually I was like, “Okay,”by 2023 it was obvious this thing, A is going to last a lot more time, and B, that the whole world is shifting and that there's going to be a new arms race, that the warfare is redefined by drones as platforms. And for the first time in history, you have a platform that is software defined, that can increase your battlefield capabilities, in a in a step change just overnight. So it's like if you were able to push a software update and get all of your Roman legionnaires a new helmet? That has never been possible before. It's the first time in the history of war this is possible. So all of that and many other things like, supply chain fragilization, and the impact that AI is going to have on all of this all these things have become evident to me in 2023, and it's like, “Okay, I should do what I do best, or what I know how to do best, start a tech company, and sort of leverage the global techno capitalist machine, to provide, defensibility to Ukraine and the free world.” So that's literally the mission of the company, increase defensibility of Ukraine and the free world. And then there was some sort of soul-searching and like, asking yourself. It's like, “Okay, am I Actually, I know nothing about weapons. Am I actually, like, ready to make, things that other people use to kill other bad people?”Yaroslav [00:09:36]: When you think about what your nation, what your Compatriots are going through And think about all the terror of places like Bucha, the occupied cities in the east and south, the abducted children, the raped women, all the economic damage that's being done, and the intention to destroy a whole nation, to genocide the people of Ukraine, you realize that's the only morally right thing to do is to fight back, and it is immoral not to fight back. And then the choice becomes very clear. And look, we're just passing the ammunition. We're not doing the actual job. The actual fighters and defenders and heroes are people in the armed forces. We're just support.The Moral Question: Weapons, Responsibility, and Fighting BackNoah [00:10:33]: I have so many questions. Actually, I know you seem to have a question. Do you want to ask anything?Yaroslav [00:10:38]: No, I'm just listening. Go ahead.Noah [00:10:40]: I do want to talk about, some of let's say, the moral issues, like you just said. You endYaroslav [00:10:50]: I think there are no issues there.Yaroslav [00:10:52]: What would an example of a moral question be in this case?Noah [00:10:55]: No, I mean Okay. As you just said, you are creating the tools, but others are using them.Noah [00:11:05]: I was maybe thinking of having this conversation later, but one of the questions is like, is it actually you are going to be building them for your homeland, which you are building it for your homeland, which is I think, very a strong morally defensible position, but this technology is not going to stay with you, right?Noah [00:11:26]: This you will probably be selling these to other people Yeah. So the future is really where the moral issues may come into playYaroslav [00:11:38]: The this question becomes, easier and more complete if we ask this not about a particular technology or particular weapon, if we think that this question actually applies to any kind of technology Right? So -Knife or fire. You can use knife to do surgery and save people's lives, or you can use it as a weapon to take people's lives.Noah [00:12:06]: Cut tomatoes, too.Yaroslav [00:12:08]: Cut tomatoes too.Noah [00:12:09]: Yes, knife.Yaroslav [00:12:09]: That's helpful.Noah [00:12:10]: In Japan, sword and knife, they, call the same word.Yaroslav [00:12:14]: It's like, it's with any technology. Large language models, right? Look at how powerful they are and yet they're available to anyone in North Korea or in Russia.Yaroslav [00:12:29]: That's one side of the argument. The other side is As a maker, what is your responsibility for how the tools you're creating, will be used? There's definitely some responsibility, right? Then How should the decision process look like? Should you, like, try to calculate all the possible scenarios before starting to work on something? Or do you create something that is needed now to save people's lives, and then think about, addressing the unwanted edge cases later? In ideal world where there's like, or okay, it's not ideal world. In a mythical world where there is some one governing party and it gets to decide everything, and there is no other country, that can, decide on their own, you could say, “Well, we need to calculate for all the consequences, and only then, maybe build this building, by replacing this park because, maybe we need this park in the city,”right? So that kind of situation. But when you're in a situation where you're in a forest, in front of a wolf, you first going to deal with the wolf that wants to eat you, and then you're going to go consult Greenpeace. So that's kind of situation that Ukraine is in.The Fourth Law, Odd Systems, and Ukraine's Drone StackNoah [00:13:59]: Enough. Because this is a tech podcast, I did want to spend some time talking about, sort of the tech in that you've developed and what you've been working on. So can you explain, I guess, first of all, like, the problem that you were trying to solve from a technical standpoint? And I think, and then maybe, like, go into some of the solutions and some of the design process that led you from designing, little laser-guided, guiding lasers with a with an iPhone versus Having drones.Yaroslav [00:14:34]: Like, it so happened, that my partners and I, we sort of So I started one company called The Fourth Law, and its goal was and is to Make, massively scalable on-drone autonomy. And then In parallel with that together with my, Petcube co-founders, partners, and friends, we started another company called Odd Systems Which, was focused on making thermal cameras. Cameras, thermal cameras are seeing thermal radiation and are used to see at night. And we're now sort of those companies are getting closer and closer together and we're probably going to merge them. And this group of companies is currently the leading, team in on-drone AI and thermal imaging on the Ukrainian battlefield, and Likely one of the leading, if not the leading in the world. So We have these, like, three sort of business units, which are cameras, drone autonomy, and drones. So the cameras and drone autonomy sell daytime and nighttime cameras and different types of drone autonomous modules to other drone manufacturers, over 200 drone manufacturers in Ukraine. And then the UAV, business unit sells the drones themselves to the armed forces of Ukraine, Ukrainian government. And there are different types of drones. Those are sort of front strike, as we call them, so those are sort of FPV strike drones and the bombers, and then interceptors. And there are different kinds of interceptors. We do Shahed interceptors and we do ISR interceptors. We don't do the deep strike-FPV Drones, Interceptors, and Battery-Powered WarfareNoah [00:16:32]: What's an ISR interceptor?Yaroslav [00:16:33]: ISR is stands for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and those are basically drones which are which, Russians are using to watch over positions and then communicate where, the targets are coming.Noah [00:16:48]: It's a reconnaissance.Yaroslav [00:16:48]: That's, the ISR is sort of a classical term for a for a reconnaissance drone.Noah [00:16:53]: Are all of these battery-powered drones that you just described? ‘Cause I know that the sort of deep strike drones still have, like Some sort ofYaroslav [00:17:01]: Internal combustion engine?Noah [00:17:02]: Internal combustion engine. Are all the things you're talking about battery-powered?Yaroslav [00:17:06]: What we're working on is all battery-powered, right? We don't do the deep strikes, right? And then in terms of autonomy-Noah [00:17:12]: You can catch a Shahed with a battery-powered thing. It's not Fast to catch.Yaroslav [00:17:17]: No, absolutely. Look, Shahed interceptor, like ours, it's called Zero, it goes up to 326 kilometers per hour.Noah [00:17:26]: For reference, how fast is a Shahed?Yaroslav [00:17:28]: Eight, like, in internal phase it could be 280, but in cruise phase it's, like, 220-ish.Yaroslav [00:17:36]: Yeah. And sorry, I'm not like you can convert that into miles if you're interested.Noah [00:17:41]: No, that's fine.Noah [00:17:41]: Multiply by two thirds or point six or something.Yaroslav [00:17:44]: That's easy. Yeah, I was saying that for autonomy modules, right, we, -We make systems, autonomous systems for frontline, for interceptors and some for deep strikes as well, and then different levels of autonomy. So from terminal guidance, which is like lasts 500 meters, give or take, to autonomous bombing, to autonomous target detection, to autonomous navigation and all of that across day and night, different terrains, different time of the year, different platforms like quadcopters and fixed wing, and maybe some other platforms. So it's quite a wide variety of products. We also have like our own simulation. We have our own training school for the war fighters. And we're about to start construction of two, semiconductor plants to make, sensors for thermal cameras. So that's super exciting for me as a computer science guy is Doing semiconductors. Super cool.Noah [00:18:49]: Like in terms of kind of core drone technologies, you basically are one is an FPV replacement without fiber optics, and the other isYaroslav [00:18:59]: YouNoah [00:18:59]: Signal tracking with interceptorsYaroslav [00:19:00]: With or without fiber optics. Fiber optics Is just like, sort of a communication module.Yaroslav [00:19:05]: You can, you can use classical analog, video link and radio link. Those would be two separate radios. You can do digital, or you can do fiber optic, and then fiber optic Has its own advantages but also adds weight and decreases, the distance and decreases, how fast you can, sort of turn and With a drone. Yeah.Noah [00:19:33]: Do you need AI for fiber optic drones?Yaroslav [00:19:36]: Like you can use AI for fiber optic drones. AI replaces a human, right? Fiber optic is making your communication link more resilient. So those are slightly different goals. Like if you want, you can have, AI controlling hundreds of fiber optic drones instead of having 100 operators for each.Fiber Optics, Radio Horizons, and Terminal GuidanceNoah [00:20:03]: I guess I thought that the key reason that people moved to fiber optic drones was for like electronic, countermeasures. Or I guess to counter those.Yaroslav [00:20:13]: I think that's a correct assessment from sort of a public awareness standpoint. In practice it's somewhat more difficult Because besides electronic countermeasures, you have these issues of a radio horizon For FPV drones, which means that asYaroslav [00:20:36]: I believe Earth is round Some people disagree. But basically if you fly a drone and you have a land station over here and a drone flying over hereYaroslav [00:20:49]: If your drone is flying high, you have good direct radio visibility. If your drone goes low, and usually, Russian infantry and vehicles, they're on the ground and you want to hit them, you need to go low. Lower you go, maybe you'll get behind a hill or behind a forest, and if you're far enough, you'll just get behind the curvature of the earth. You get into what's called a radio shadow. And then That is a real bummer because for the last, be it 60 or 20 meters, you won't be able to see anything and it will be very difficult to hit the target. So to counter that what-- And then the distances that these FPV drones, act on they're, they can be quite large. So for example, here in the US there was this drone dominance program competition, and in drone dominance the furthest distance was about 10 kilometers.Noah [00:21:44]: What was drone dominance? What was that competition?Yaroslav [00:21:47]: Drone, the drone dominance is a is a program started, by the US government, to accelerate the development of drone technology here in the US.Noah [00:21:57]: Got it. And the longest range thing they were using was 10 kilometers.Yaroslav [00:22:00]: Was 10 kilometers, right. In Ukraine, like if your drone doesn't fly at least 20, 25, it just, no one's interested in it, and the usual hits are happening. It was like, okay, many hits are happening between 30 and 40 kilometers, and that's what expected from a regular 10-inch, FPV drone. So at that distance, even at altitudes of like 60 to 100 meters, you might start losing, the link. So some of the earlier AI technology that was fielded in FPV drone was this terminal guidance technology. That was the first product that we ever, launched that helped you as an operator, once you see the target from two, three, 500 meters, you lock onto the target and then, it just, drives the drone towards the target no matter what, even after you lost the visual connection. So optic fiber solves that. However, if you want to go like 20 kilometers with optic fiber, that will add an extra three kilos, of useful weight to your drone. SoNoah [00:23:12]: ‘Cause the cable that you have to unspool as you go weighs.Noah [00:23:15]: It is heavy.Yaroslav [00:23:15]: At first, like the spool is about 800 grams, so a bit less than a kilo, and then, and then think about 10, 10 kilometer optic fiber is another kilo, something like that. That takes away from your useful mass and then now you have like, you need a 15-inch drone and it can only carry maybe one or two kilos of explosives if you want to go, 20 kilometers. If you want to go to 30 or 40, like 30 is probably max. 40 is like very problem problematic on optic fiber. And then the problem with optic fiber is it's actually getting super expensive. So and why? Because of all the data centers for AI. That's literally the same optic fiber-Noah [00:24:01]: We're running out of centersYaroslav [00:24:02]: That's being used there.Yaroslav [00:24:02]: Like when Ukrainians and Russians come to Chinese factories to buy the optic fiber, they're like, “We're out. We sold it out to the Americans.”? That's the craziest thing. So optic fiber went up in price from like, $4 per, kilometer to like, $32 per kilometer in a few months in the beginning of this year. And I'veBrandon [00:24:26]: Claude Code is stopping the Russian drone effort here.Yaroslav [00:24:30]: Ukrainian as well. Yeah.Brandon [00:24:31]: Ukrainian. But I read somewhere that the Russians had grown more dependent on fiber optic drones relative to the Ukrainians, and that's one reason why the Ukrainians have sort of regained the initiative in drones recently.Brandon [00:24:42]: How accurate's that?Yaroslav [00:24:43]: The Russians were the first ones to scale that. I think by as of now, Ukraine has caught up. I think, like, as of maybe three months ago, Ukraine is mostly caught up on fiber optic. Yeah.Brandon [00:24:57]: What percent of damage would you say is in terms of FPV drone damage would you say is now fiber optic versus, like autonomous?FPVs as the New God of War: Tanks, Artillery, and Cost per KillYaroslav [00:25:07]: For our, for our audience, I actually, I cannot answer that question. Like, it's like I know the answer, but I would not disclose that. But for our audience, I think another interesting fact is out of all the casualties on the front line Between 70 and 80% are done by FPV drones.Brandon [00:25:30]: FPV drones are the new weapon of universal weapon of warfare.Yaroslav [00:25:34]: It'sBrandon [00:25:35]: Land warfare, anywayYaroslav [00:25:35]: They used to say that artillery is a god of war because artillery used to cause, like 80% of casualties, and now On that ranking-Brandon [00:25:46]: FPVYaroslav [00:25:47]: FPV drones rule.Brandon [00:25:48]: FPV drones are the god of war.Yaroslav [00:25:51]: Sort of. Dethroned artillery. But it's not to say that artillery is not useful, is not needed. Like, all of these systems are needed. Maybe except cavalry, although Russians still use it. I know, have you seen the videos of Russians using mules and horses?Brandon [00:26:09]: What is the usefulness-Yaroslav [00:26:10]: It'Brandon [00:26:10]: Of a tank in the in the modern-Yaroslav [00:26:11]: That's where we need Greenpeace to say a word, but they're silent. Yeah.Brandon [00:26:15]: What's the use of a tank on the modern battlefield?Yaroslav [00:26:21]: It's diminishing.Brandon [00:26:22]: Diminishing.Yaroslav [00:26:22]: However, I think there might be technologies which will, revive the tank. Look, tank still provides you armor, and armor is important. Like, you still need to armor and firepower, right? Like, you can be an armor personal carrier that provides you, armor. The challenge that currently exists is armor is not very well protected against incoming drones. However, there are ways to do to protect it. We were previously talking about this before the podcast. The CEO of Rheinmetall, recently sort of ridiculed, Ukrainian drone industry, saying that like, there is nothing interesting there, no real innovation, no to stand Compared to like, Rheinmetall or Boeing, and it's all made by housewives. There was like, obviously a ton of memes about this people ridiculing the CEO of Rheinmetall. And one of the best quotes, I heard on this topic is from my friend, Alexey Babenko, who's, the head of and founder of VIARI Drone, which is one of the largest manufacturers of FPV drones. They're our partner. They're using our autonomy. So he said that the drones we manufacture in one day will be more than enough to destroy all the tanks Rheinmetall manufactures in a year.Yaroslav [00:27:52]: Then, yeah, cost-wise, of course, a drone is like, $500 and a Rheinmetall tank is what, probably 5 million-ish or maybe more.Brandon [00:28:00]: Don't mess with those housewives.Yaroslav [00:28:03]: Drone wives.Brandon [00:28:04]: Drone wives.Yaroslav [00:28:06]: That's it.Noah [00:28:06]: There's a classic saying that everyone always fights the last war.Noah [00:28:12]: Yet do How did So from your standpoint, how did we get to the point where tanks became irrelevant in at least for now In a matter of just a few years?Yaroslav [00:28:24]: Look, I think it's the same way, how do we get to the point that calculators become irrelevant?Yaroslav [00:28:31]: Now we have iPhones. Like, why would you need a calculator? Technology progresses and its influence grows non-linearly. It's all exponential. So I can tell you that full autonomy, when you put it on a drone Look, so if you, if you think about a tank and a like, it's not a direct comparison, but even, like, a drone and a artillery shell or like, sort of cost per kill, an artillery shell for 155 caliber, which is a standard NATO caliber Currently market price is about $4,000 per piece. So compare that to say, $400 per drone. That's 10 times more expensive. Account for the amortization of the artillery gun and for how vulnerable it is and what is the sort of tactical, capabilities it gives you as compared to a drone. You'll figure out that an FPV drone is maybe three orders of magnitude, more versatile, more useful, more capable than artillery and many of than a classic artillery. Many of Because there are different types of artillery. Not just, like, one 155. You have mortars, you have all that. But give or take, roughly three orders of magnitude maybe. Again, it doesn't have that firepower. It's not one-to-one comparison still.Yaroslav [00:29:53]: Now, take that FPV drone. When you put full autonomy on that FPV drone, which can be not very expensive, like systems that we're, producing are like, in hundreds of dollars of pure bombFull Autonomy: From Human Pilots to Smartphone-Directed Drone MissionsNoah [00:30:06]: Just interrupt. You said full autonomy Just a second ago you were saying that the autonomy here is guidance, right? It's not decision-making.Yaroslav [00:30:14]: No, I was I was saying that's the f-First and sort of easiest pieces of autonomy that was fielded by us. But if you, if you add full autonomy to a droneBrandon [00:30:24]: He, I think he's asking what does it can you, for the listeners, can you explain What the term full autonomy means?Yaroslav [00:30:29]: Basically, I think a good way to think about an FPV drone is like an iPhone of warfare. It's, like, very inexpensive, very mass producible, very versatile. You don't need a bunch of other things when you have a iPhone in your pocket. You don't have, need an MP3 player, you don't need a calculator, don't need other things. All right? So FPV drone is an iPhone. Or like, okay, Apple please don't sue me, is a smartphone. And then, when you add autonomy to it sort of becomes like Uber or ride sharing. Okay? So what it means is instead of actually being a trained pilot who has this complex remote controller device which requires a couple months of training to actually pilot the drone, and then having to pilot it for 30 minutes, flying towards the target, et cetera, et cetera, now you basically, you have your smartphone, you have a drone, you pick your smartphone, you say, “We are here. The bad guys are here. Go and get them.” And the drone goes up, flies in a given direction, localizes itself on the map, finds the dedicated area where they, the bad guys are supposed to be sees the bad guys, bombs them, return, like, watches, so does a damage assessment, returns back, sits down, and then you can pick it up and watch the video if you didn't have the radio link, right?Noah [00:31:59]: That's a bomber drone.Yaroslav [00:32:00]: That's full autonomy for a bomber drone, right?Noah [00:32:03]: You're saying that no human decision is made in this entire process?Brandon [00:32:06]: That's not, that's not what he's saying.Yaroslav [00:32:07]: A human decision was made at the beginning of the process-Noah [00:32:09]: I get it. I get itYaroslav [00:32:09]: The same way as you would fire an artillery.Yaroslav [00:32:12]: When you fire an artillery, you don't stop at like, 500 meters away from a target and ask it whether, you want to strike or not. That's exactly, a human decision is always made at some point. So when you do that's full autonomy, and such full autonomy is happening as we speak. And such full autonomy increases the capabilities of an FPV drone, which is already, like, three orders more powerful than an artillery shell. Full autonomy increases its capabilities by four orders of magnitude because now you can have 100 times as many people who can use it, because you don't need to train those people, and this is important. You can have 10 times, mission success rate, and you can have 10 times utility per drone because now instead of being one-way kamikaze, it's, it can be a bomber.Brandon [00:33:05]: Now wait, let's, you said 10 times mission success rate, which means that fully autonomous bomber drones succeed in their missions 10 times more often than human piloted bomber drones do. That's an important thing to know.Noah [00:33:17]: Maybe, to push back onBrandon [00:33:19]: They're super, they're superhuman. They're, they' 10X superhuman.Yaroslav [00:33:22]: They're not vulnerable to electronic warfare. They don't care about the radio horizon. They don't lose track during navigation. They are not susceptible to human error when, an artillery shell or other drone blows up besides you and you're like, “Hell no,”like, “I'm getting out of here.” Right? That doesn't happen to an autonomous drone. Like, all of those things. Like, we have, like, one of the brigades that's using our drones with just first level autonomy They literally said that their success rates-Brandon [00:33:53]: What's first level autonomy?Yaroslav [00:33:54]: First level autonomy is just the terminal guidance.Yaroslav [00:33:57]: By the way, we have video of that. We can watch that.Brandon [00:33:59]: Terminal guidance means a human gets it nearby and then the AI takes over.Yaroslav [00:34:03]: The human flies it all the way, like 30 kilometers towards the target, and obviously the target was probably given to that human by someone who's flying some ISR drone, some reconnaissance drone, right? So all the way to the target, and once you see the target from a distance of 500 meters, you do target lock, and from there drone flies autonomous. So just that feature alone, it has increased the guy's, his call sign is Grom, so it has increased his, mission success rate, like precision of mission, yeah, mission success rate from 20% to 71%, and it also increased his kill zone from three kilometers to 10 kilometers, which means there's certain area around the front line which is designated kill zone. Whenever enemy goes into that area, it's almost guaranteed to be to be destroyed by a drone. And then obviously the drones are not launched from like, the zero line. They're usually launched from like, minus 10 kilometer-Mission Success, Failure Modes, and the Five Levels of AutonomyBrandon [00:35:03]: What is a zero line?Yaroslav [00:35:05]: Zero line is sort of an imaginary line of control, of two conflicting forces.Brandon [00:35:14]: It's important to explain these things to a lot of the listeners who areYaroslav [00:35:17]: Thank you for askingBrandon [00:35:18]: Familiar with warfare.Noah [00:35:20]: Myself.Noah [00:35:20]: I'm one of those listeners.Brandon [00:35:20]: You said that level one autonomy, in other words just terminal guidance, just, like, human gets it to the finish line and then it goes over the finish line, increases mission success from 20 something percent to 71%, or something like that.Yaroslav [00:35:33]: Increases the kill zoneBrandon [00:35:34]: Increases the kill zoneYaroslav [00:35:34]: Three kilometers to 10 kilometers.Brandon [00:35:36]: Got it.Yaroslav [00:35:36]: On both parameters-Brandon [00:35:37]: What is full autonomy, dude? AndNoah [00:35:38]: Actually on real quick, can we define mission success and like, maybe in a way, what are the failure modes of missions?Brandon [00:35:44]: I have a guess what mission success is.Noah [00:35:46]: But I couldBrandon [00:35:47]: Get ‘em.Yaroslav [00:35:49]: No, but that's a very good question, in fact, because, even if you fly into the target, well, first the target can be damaged or destroyed. Those are two different modes. Then there can be different targets. A sole infantryman is one kind of target. A dugout where supposed there are some, enemies there is another kind of target, and a some mechanical equipment is another type of target. Radio emitting equipment, which, like, often, like, the targets that the military want to get more than anything else is the some enemy radio tower or something like that or some small radio dish that really makes life difficult in that area, in that combat area. So those are different targets, right? It can be destroyed, can be damaged.Then sometimes, the drone hits but doesn't explode. Like, that happens. And then, there are other failure modes. You didn't even reach the target because you were A jammed by electronic warfare; B, you lost the control over drone because of the radio horizon; C, you were jammed by a different type of electronic warfare that happens way before You hit the target area. It's, impacting your, video receiver. So like jamming on video or jamming on control are two different types of jamming. Then something malfunctioned on a drone, just a mechanical malfunction, maybe like a motor broke or like, whatever. So all of those are different failure modes. Yeah, or maybe you got lost, you're navigate navigating to your, to your target. That happens, too.Noah [00:37:41]: The Level one autonomy, basically you manage to point in a direction.Noah [00:37:49]: You go there, and then the last mile The drone taking over.Yaroslav [00:37:52]: We define this like, I define that but it sort of got picked up by the industry. We define five levels of autonomy. So level one is terminal guidance. It's what we just discussed. Level two is bombing. Level three is autonomous target detection and engagement decision. Level four is autonomous navigation. And level five is autonomous takeoff and landing.Noah [00:38:15]: Those are good things to knowYaroslav [00:38:16]: Those are five levels of autonomy. Now, if youNoah [00:38:19]: I have a question for you.Yaroslav [00:38:19]: Sorry. Like, let me finish withNoah [00:38:21]: SorryYaroslav [00:38:21]: Theoretical part.Noah [00:38:23]: What is Tesla running at right now?Yaroslav [00:38:25]: Tesla?Noah [00:38:25]: No, sorry.Yaroslav [00:38:26]: That's very good point. Like, it's exactly, it was inspired by the levels of self-driving autonomy.Noah [00:38:32]: Waymo's level five, right?Noah [00:38:35]: You just tell it where you want to go, it picks you up, and then you go there.Yaroslav [00:38:36]: I think, like, if you, if you look at the classic definitions of self-driving cars, Waymo is still, like, level four because it still requires even remote, but still, like, human control. It's like if Waymo gets in trouble, there is an operator who takes over and resolves this. So that would still be a level four. It doesn't map directly, but it's also five levels.Brandon [00:38:58]: Can I, can I interject a question here? In terms of an FPV drone that's like a suicide drone that'll just blow itself up killing something, how do what it hit? Like, does it, just transmit back, or do you sort of like, lose track of it and hope it hit? Like, what happens to that?Yaroslav [00:39:16]: That's a great question. SoBrandon [00:39:18]: You need another droneYaroslav [00:39:19]: Like, the current battlefield in Ukraine is saturated with different types of drones. So obviously you have all the FPV drones and last year alone, Ukraine manufactured about 4 million of these, and then Russia's maybe, like, 20% less than that. And for this year, the publicly voiced target was 7 million on Ukrainian side. So it's, like, serious numbers. We're getting in serious numbers here. And then besides those, there are different, reconnaissance drones, ISR as we call them, and there are sort of tactical level ISR where we, both Ukrainians and Russians usually use, Mavic, drone by DJI. And then there are a bunch of locally produced drones, which are sort of fixed wing drones that can stay in the air for much longer than Mavic, maybe, like, half an hour. And then, there are drones that can stay for many hours or even up to a day. And those drones have, are more expensive, have more expensive cameras, et cetera, et cetera. We hunt those drones that Russians launch. The Russians hunt our drones, and so on. But ideally, when you, are a group of soldiers operating an FPV, you'll have someone in your, company, or someone in your platoon who has an ISR asset that will do target designation for you. They'll say, “Oh, like, there's a Russian vehicle over there. Go and get him.”and you go there, you get it, and they're like, “Okay, confirmed.”Battlefield Surveillance and the Eight Dimensions of AutonomyBrandon [00:40:57]: Those guys are watching. They have their own drones in the sky.Yaroslav [00:40:59]: Target destroyed. They have, like, a carousel of drones because One Mavic cannot stay more than 30 minutes. ItBrandon [00:41:06]: They're constantly surveilling the battlefield.Yaroslav [00:41:07]: Almost every spot on the battlefield.Yaroslav [00:41:11]: It's not always the case. Sometimes you will not have a surveillance asset, so then you would launch another FPV just to confirm that there was a hit. Then if you see there was a hit and you're not sure if it completely destroyed, you maybe hit again for good measure.Brandon [00:41:26]: You double tap.Yaroslav [00:41:28]: That's how it works. But I was about to give you another sort of piece of taxonomy. So you have five levels of autonomy, right? Then you have sort of eight dimensions of autonomous battlefield. So what is eight dimensions? It's crucial to understand how autonomy evolves in a modern, battlefield environment. So dimension number one is level of autonomy. What are the capabilities that your asset has? Dimension number two is the platform you're operating on. So it can be a quadcopter, a fixed wing drone, different types of maybe, like, a long range drone or short range drone, but it can also be a missile. You can have autonomy even on an artillery shell or a ground vehicle or a sea vehicle. So all of those are different platforms. Level three would be domain. So it's ground to ground or ground to air as an intersection, or ground to sea or sea to air. They're all, like, all the nuances with different domains. Then level four, would be higher levels of autonomy, such as swarming, drone carriers, drone nests, et cetera.Brandon [00:42:39]: Now when you're saying level, you're talking about dimensions, not about-Yaroslav [00:42:42]: Sorry. YeahBrandon [00:42:43]: Autonomy levels. So dimension four.Yaroslav [00:42:43]: The dimension. Yeah, I used to say I was supposed to say dimension. I say dimension because each of them works with another, right? So you might have, like third level autonomy, fixed wing drone operating in land to air, and stuff like that right? And then operating in a swarm or operating from a nest. Right? Then you have, sort of dimension number five is environment. So is it day or night? Is it summer or winter? Is it, humid, cold, dry? What kind of target is it? Is your target hiding in a forest, or is it, behind a hill or within buildings? So all of that is environment. Then you have, dimension number six is command and control. How are you dealing with or like, tens of thousands of those assets around the battlefield? How are you coordinating that on the higher levels of command? How are you collecting data? All that.Yaroslav [00:43:44]: Dimension number seven would be infrastructure, so things like simulation, data collection tools, security, deployment mechanisms, et cetera. So all those systems have to be developed separately and integrate with all the others. And finally, dimension number eight is sort of distribution. Have you deployed 100 of these systems or 100,000 of these systems? Because those are two very different ballgames. So that now gives you a more broad overview of how autonomy propagates across the battle space.Targeting, Human Responsibility, and Rules of EngagementNoah [00:44:23]: As someone who has done machine learning and had gone out of distribution and had things, go horribly wrong, you were talking several of these, kind of axes of thinking about drone warfare seem like they could be very susceptible to some sort of distribution shift if you start making things autonomous.Yaroslav [00:44:41]: Like what?Noah [00:44:41]: I mean Well, first ofYaroslav [00:44:43]: If the I'm very interested Sort of sort of kinds of scenarios that you're thinking about.Noah [00:44:48]: Like the most obvious one is you, if I assume these are computer vision guided systems for at least the last mile, how do you ensure that oh, well, like you now have some fog roll in or something, and you, the drones just attack the wrong thing? Or maybe, it probably will not turn around and fly back and attack you, but youYaroslav [00:45:10]: Same, the same, the same question, how do you ensure that your mortar fire hits the right thing? Well, it's like mortar fire, give or take half a kilometer could be plus or minus. So maybe you fire one, and then you fire another. So drones are actually, much better in being precise in those scenarios. And I think, to your point, I think five to 10 years from now it will be immoral to use weapons without AI.Yaroslav [00:45:44]: ‘Cause weapons without AI will be more likely to cause, collateral damage or unwanted damage. Same way, it will be immoral to drive your own car manually on a public road because it's more likely to cause, unwanted damage.Noah [00:46:02]: Wow, I never considered that mightBrandon [00:46:04]: Really? That's definitely coming.Yaroslav [00:46:07]: Anyway.Brandon [00:46:07]: No, but that' I don't know, it's an obvious, an obvious thought. I agree with you.Brandon [00:46:12]: I, No, they, obviously they're not going to let you drive once most of the cars on the road are autonomous.Noah [00:46:17]: No, that one, don't I believe.Yaroslav [00:46:19]: No, I think you were you were talking about drones, right?Brandon [00:46:21]: The drones, right. Cool.Yaroslav [00:46:22]: The weapons, right?Brandon [00:46:23]: Friendly fire and collateral damage and stuff like that is all minimized with AI.Brandon [00:46:27]: Here's my question. Take all let's go to level six autonomy. Let's take all of the target selection. Let's take all the battlefield data, integrate it into one big AI, and have that big AI basically be in command of the battlefield And agentically do target selection.Yaroslav [00:46:44]: Be the general, right?Brandon [00:46:44]: It's a general. It's, you've cut humans out of the loop except maybe as dexterous robots, repairing drones and fastening things to drones or maybe something like that because you don't have those robots yet. How soon are we there? AI general.Yaroslav [00:46:58]: The most important thing to ask ourselves is who will be faster to that us or our adversaries?Brandon [00:47:07]: I assume us, but how fast will we be to that? I hope us.Yaroslav [00:47:11]: I hope so too.Brandon [00:47:12]: How fast can we Like when are we looking at that in terms of like horizons years?Yaroslav [00:47:18]: Like technically, it could be done now. The question is of course, there's, some engineering work to be done. The bigger challenge is deployment. Right? So okay, technically Like operation in Iran, right? They, the publicly, it was claimed that I think Palantir system was used for target designation, et cetera, et cetera. So it is not exactly as you say, the AI makes all the decisions, but basically AI goes through all the data you have, gives you these 1,027 different targets and says, “You-- To confirm, please press Okay.” And you look at the targets and you're like, “Yeah, sounds right. Press Okay.”so that's, I think that's where we are now already, or we were a couple weeks ago as we're recording this on April 10th. Another question is how massively deployable it is. Is it, like, every decision being made like that or is it, like, just some of the decisions made like that? And then different levels of command and control. There you have, like, the platoon, the company level, the battalion, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the tricky thing here when we get into that territory, the tricky thing is If your enemy is getting advantage of being Thousand times faster than yourself by deploying such systems What do you do?Yaroslav [00:49:10]: You got to-Brandon [00:49:12]: The if the enemy is a thousand times faster than you at deploying those systems?Yaroslav [00:49:16]: Like, if enemy starts deploying level six autonomy, as you call And you have not started doingBrandon [00:49:22]: You're in troubleYaroslav [00:49:23]: Yes, exactly. So you have to catch up. So my point is that it is very important to think about the safety of these systems, but that thinking should not slow you down in developing them because they are critical for your existential, survival, right? And like, one person who doesn't think, doesn't get to think about the ethics of the war is a dead person. That person surely doesn't get to think about that.Brandon [00:49:52]: What would be the safety risk of such a system?Yaroslav [00:49:55]: Of course-Brandon [00:49:56]: Friendly fire?Yaroslav [00:49:56]: Just wrong decisions, right?Brandon [00:49:59]: I see.Yaroslav [00:49:59]: Maybe, these decisions-AI Command Decisions, Dead Zones, and Complex BattlefieldsBrandon [00:50:06]: Skynet AI decides it's going to useYaroslav [00:50:08]: No, these-Brandon [00:50:08]: Drone army to kill usYaroslav [00:50:09]: Decisions will not only be made about drones. They are likely to made about what the humans should do on your side as well. Then obviously some environments are more like Ukrainian-Russian war, where you haveBrandon [00:50:26]: It will have to choose to risk lives. It will have to choose to sacrifice human lives-Yaroslav [00:50:28]: Of courseBrandon [00:50:29]: On your side.Yaroslav [00:50:29]: Of course. And then some environments are just, like, dead, like, dead zones and there are no civilians there, or virtually no civilians close to the front line because, like, super dangerous. Everyone has evacuated from there. But there are other environments which are more like, okay, there's a counterterrorist operation. There's, like, a group of terrorists or a group of civilians. Or like, it's like the recent operations in Iran, I imagine that the US and Israeli forces do not want to harm civilians. They only targeted the military targets there, right? So in those situations, it's a different level of responsibility for that decision-making as well. And then there is just such a big variety of those military missions, and I'm not even, like, well-informed or well-educated in military science to tell you about all those scenarios. We would need to put some general besides me, and maybe a Ukraine general and American general would have told you very different stories about these things.Brandon [00:51:34]: Got it. Can I ask a few more questions? All right. So in 2013, I wrote one of my first, paid articles ever was about how the era of drones will change human society. I was just sitting around bored thinking about things.Yaroslav [00:51:54]: You were way ahead of your time.Brandon [00:51:55]: I said, I said, “The following will happen.”Yaroslav [00:51:57]: It's, this article is real. I've read it.Yaroslav [00:51:58]: It's actually-Brandon [00:51:59]: I said small autonomous, suicide drones, will cleanse the battlefield of human infantry. Human infantry will not be able to stand against swarms of AI-powered, suicide drones. That was I didn't even know about, like, AlexNet at the time, I think.Yaroslav [00:52:19]: You're just an avid sci-fi reader.Brandon [00:52:23]: I'm an avid sci-fi reader, but also, like, it's not Like, there will be a way to do that. It's a it's a nonlinear multidimensional search problem, and you get enough compute, you'll find some search algorithm that will get you there. And soBrandon [00:52:38]: I, yeah, I think that one sentence describes the bitter lesson right there.Brandon [00:52:41]: It's just like it's a multidimensional search space. You search it somehow. I don't know. Figure out some get a grad student-Yaroslav [00:52:47]: Sooner or laterBrandon [00:52:47]: To make a search algorithm.Brandon [00:52:48]: It's not that hard. Anyway, so but then, but I guess the point is The point is that human infantry on the battlefield will be will be gone at the end. I wrote that in 2013. Many people on social media laughed at me for that called me hysterical, said things like, “Electronic warfare will knock all the drones out of the sky.”like, “You need humans to hold ground.”that's something you still hear from a lot of people on social media today. I feel that this article that I've written has never been directionally wrong. It has gotten more and more right steadily over time, and that we're very reading the battlefield reports from Ukraine, where, human infantry are basically guy, like a few guys hiding in dugouts for months, and I'm not sure what they're doing.Yaroslav [00:53:35]: That's on Ukraine's side. On the Russian side, that's just like a zerg rush.Brandon [00:53:38]: The zerg rush, and then they just die. Then, but they have some guys in dugouts too, right? Like hiding in dugouts for months.Yaroslav [00:53:45]: They have. Yeah.Brandon [00:53:45]: Like, but that like, what are those guys doing in the dugouts? Are providing, like, frontline, like, reconnaissance? Like, what are they doing?Yaroslav [00:53:54]: If there is a guy in a dugout with some bullets and automatic weapon, the other guy cannot come and take the that dugout. That'Brandon [00:54:07]: I seeYaroslav [00:54:08]: They are they're establishing control over territory.Brandon [00:54:10]: I see. So that is so there still is a use for human infantry on the battlefield as of today.Yaroslav [00:54:15]: LikeBrandon [00:54:15]: How long will that last?Yaroslav [00:54:17]: I think it will last for a while. This is funny. There's this whole Layer of the modern culture, a modern Ukraine culture built around the war-related stuff. So there is this -Punk rock band, that is called SZC, I guess in English that would be. Which stands short for like a deserter or something like that. So anyhow, this band has a song titled “2030.” It's basically about the year 2030, and the war still goes on as like the whatever, third world war or whatever. And they basically, they, sang about the AI and like cyborgs and everything, but the simple infantry is still needed, and we're still, like, getting cold in those dugouts, and we're still doing our job. That's sort of the theme of the song. And it seems like that's actually what's going to happen. There areGround Robots, Simulation, and the Limits of World ModelsBrandon [00:55:30]: Ground robots will not replace humans in the dugouts soon.Yaroslav [00:55:34]: I'm very much interested in following the whole humanoid robot theme andBrandon [00:55:39]: What about like a dog robot?Noah [00:55:41]: Or just mobile controlled platforms or something.Brandon [00:55:44]: Spider robot, yeah.Brandon [00:55:45]: Everything evolves into a crab.Brandon [00:55:46]: You build a crab robot.Yaroslav [00:55:47]: A humanoid-Noah [00:55:48]: The carcinization of warfare.Yaroslav [00:55:51]: There is a lot of utility in humanoid robots because the world is designed around humanoids. So I would not, like, 100% disqualify the possibility that sometimes 10 years in the future, humanoid robots, will be actually fighting. So that's an actual Terminator kind of scenario.Brandon [00:56:14]: Yeah, in the first Terminator movie, you look at what they've got on the battlefield, they've got flying bomber drones and humanoid robots.Yaroslav [00:56:20]: Look, the cost of large language models of running them is getting so low, you can have basically an inexpensive computer running, what was a state-of-the-art model a year and a half ago, running it locally on a device with an open source model, which also means that the Chinese can have it, the Russians can have it, the North Koreans can have it, et cetera. So that is already possible. And with when we're looking at the acceleration of the neural nets, I would've, if not the acceleration of the large language models, I would've said that I don't think that humanoid robots will be able to be useful in the battlefield earlier than in 10 years. But if you account for the exponential, it might be five years or so. The problem with all of the autonomous systems, and it's like starts with self-driving cars and even with all the AI, like modern day AI agents, to make them really, useful, you have to solve such a long tail of edge cases, that it's really difficult to make them useful. Like we were promised, self-driving cars, what, like 2007, Sebastian Thrun and Google, and even before that all the challenges, everything. And Elon of course told us it's going to be one year from 2014, and now we still don't have self-driving Teslas everywhere. We have Waymos in SF and some other places, but they're still, like, not perfect. So I think, I expect something similar from self-flying drones and fully autonomous drones, and we saw that firsthand as with each level of autonomy that we're adding, there is a very wide distance between a prototype and something that is ready to be scaled to millions of units and something that has been scaled to millions of units. But the race with like AI coding tools is just insane. So things might accelerate very fast, faster than we can imagine.Noah [00:58:46]: I think your point is that with due to this long tail behavior Level one autonomy as you've defined it, is actually very natural. Like you basically are just solving an image recognition and tracking system.Yaroslav [00:59:02]: It's actually interesting that you say it that way, and I thought about this the very same way, and we have this joke that there are like 200 companies in Ukraine which are trying to solve last mile, targeting or terminal guidance. It seems like we're like the only company that actually solved that because even that problem-Noah [00:59:22]: I'm not saying it's, I'm not saying it's trivial, but it's at least something that you imagine given our current state.Yaroslav [00:59:26]: Like us and Eric Schmidt, like Eric Schmidt's companies are pretty good.Yaroslav [00:59:29]: Like, I actually have lots of respect to what they're doing, and they're, they have been practically influential and helpful on the battlefield, and they have good engineering.Noah [00:59:38]: I wasn't, I wasn't saying it's trivial. I'm just saying this is a something naturally adaptive based upon things that we know work, well. But some of the other domains that where you do have to make decisions and you have a long tail become much harder, and you worry about edge cases more.Yaroslav [00:59:57]: Like the more, the more complex behavior you're trying to simulate, the more edge cases there are right? The more ways to do it wrong there are. And then there are different approaches. It's like if you think about, if you read academic papers about robotics, right? You sort of the robot is represented as something that has the sort of sensor input, and then you have three, levels of sort of logics or decision-making, which are perception, planning, and control, and then you have actuators as output.So pre-neural nets, you would do perception output and control all with classic logics, right? Then, with AlexNet and computer vision, you could do perception with neural nets and the rest with logic. You cannot currently do each of those separately with neural nets, each of those separately with logics, or you can just have one huge neural net that just takes lots of sensory data. It's not just pixels. Could be sound, could be accelerometer, could be everything, as input, and just outputs the controls. And some of the self-driving car companies are doing that or like, experimenting between different ways of doing that. So you can also, like, think about that and the way you implement those features, also influences how much degrees of freedom the system would have, right? Like control, you can do it classical algorithmic control with common filters and PAD filter, PAD controllers, et cetera, or you can do a neural net, that was trained in a gym with a reinforcement learning, et cetera. And those would be two different behaviors of a system.Noah [01:01:53]: I-- Maybe my point was just much more high level. It'Yaroslav [01:01:56]: Or you can If you go even like, if you go high level, you can, you can like train to like have whatever, like Feifei Li and folks who are doing like physical, sortBrandon [01:02:08]: World modelsYaroslav [01:02:08]: World models, right, physical intelligence, they're trying to make these big models and sort of understand the world and then supposedly you have such model and you can tell a drone, “Okay, like, go over that hill and like, find the bad guys and then get them,”or “Make me a video, make me a photo of the guy smiling and get back to me.” Right? That's one way. Another way you have like these subsystems, like one is navigation, another is finding the person, another is like getting to them to take a photo. And those are again, very different behaviors. And then it's not that one is necessarily better than the other, and we might have more technological ability to do one or another. But all of those systems will exist. And then again, you should always keep in mind that it's only the not only the good guys that are developing these systems, the bad guys are developing these systems as well.China's Drone Supply Chain and the West's Manufacturing GapNoah [01:03:00]: I guess where I'm going with this back to Noah's original thought with the end of the end of the soldier. And so in order to replace-Brandon [01:03:10]: Or at least the end of the rifleman.Noah [01:03:11]: Or the end of the rifleman, yeah.Yaroslav [01:03:13]: I'm not seeing that very close, and it was like I'm, as much as I'm a lover of sci-fi and all of that and a technologist, the more I try to beYaroslav [01:03:27]: Like the I try to have certain humility about these things, and like the military, domain and there was just so much human history and blood and tears, dedicated to sort of understanding this art of war and perfecting it and so on. There is so much knowledge in there that I don't feel like I even started to comprehend, a lot of that. But one thing that I really understood is that even though drones are now making eighty percent of the casualties, you go to the actual officers, you talk to the actual, like, brigade commanders, corps commanders, and they explain to you, how all of it fits together, how when you're thinking about an operation that involves a couple thousand people to get this piece of land, out of the enemy's hands, deoccu deoccupy it, how it is so complex, it involves, dozens of different types of drones and then land operations and reconnaissance operations, psychological operations and then aviations and tanks and logistics and all kinds of these different assets. So modern warfare is really very complex, and the fact that the drones are the latest, coolest thing, and then the AI is latest, coolest thing, doesn't mean that now it's that and only that right? So yeah. Whoever's looking into that I think should realize that it's not just what the press talks about, that the reality is much more difficult, much more complex.Brandon [01:05:17]: Let's talk about China and China's manufacturing capabilities. So suppose that someone, like suppose the United States went to war with China. AndYaroslav [01:05:26]: I hope not.Brandon [01:05:27]: I hope not as well. And then but suppose that drones were very essential to that war of all the types of drones that we're talking about here, and that suppose that China said, “All right, well, you need X and Y and Z, to make those drones to fight us, and we control the production of X and Y and Z, so we're just going to cut you right off, and now you have no drones.”Brandon [01:05:47]: I know that a number of countries, including Ukraine and Taiwan, have been making moves to China-proof their drone productions that China couldn't do that. Examples of things they might be able to cut off might include rare earths, fiber optic cable that you were talking about before, various other things that where even if they don't control one hundred percent of the production, they control enough of the production that would be extremely expensive to produce it without relying on Chinese sources. Or the market's fragmented enough, et cetera. What do you see as China's key bottlenecks, and how easy are those to overcome in terms of China-proofing drone production in case of a war against China?Yaroslav [01:06:30]: Let me start with a saying that -Although China does not sell directly to Ukraine and it does sell directly to Russia, a lot of Ukrainian supply chains, they start in China, right?Yaroslav [01:06:49]: We're not in a conflict with China, and we would not want to be in a conflict with China. And we'd hope that China stays a neutral power between Ukraine and Russia and the US as well. That said, the scenario that you're describing, everything is much worse.Yaroslav [01:07:11]: Think about this. Last year, Ukraine produced four million FPV drones. Ukraine is not the most industrious nation in the world.Yaroslav [01:07:19]: China can produce four billion of these FPV drones.Yaroslav [01:07:23]: China can make them not drones with propellers, but fixed-wing drones, which go not forty kilometers far, but maybe two to three hundred kilometers inland.

Executions have soared inside Iran, with new Amnesty data today showing more than 2,000 people were given the death penalty in 2025. Roland Oliphant speaks to Iranian journalist in exile Maryam Mazrooei about the “bloodthirsty” regime's latest tactic to scare citizens into silence amid the war with the US and Israel. She also explains why the mood inside the country is increasingly dark amid a growing economic disaster, with mass layoffs and no internet.Plus, the UK has fitted new laser-guided missiles to its Typhoon jets on patrol in the Gulf. Venetia Rainey talks to acting defence editor Tom Cotterill about how they have been designed to talk on Iranian Shahed drones and why they were developed so fast. Tom also talks about his recent trip to the Falklands, where locals dismissed rumours that the US may drop its backing for British sovereignty over the Islands as punishment for not joining Donald Trump's war against Iran. Highlights Gulf gets new laser-guided missiles to help smash Iranian drones‘Bloodthirsty' Iran regime executions hit all-time high as economy freefallsCONTRIBUTORS:Venetia Rainey, co-host and executive producer @venetiaraineyRoland Oliphant, co-host and chief foreign affairs analyst @RolandOliphantTom Cotterill, acting defence editor @TomCotterillXMaryam Mazrooie, journalist @MaryammazrooeiSCONTENT REFERENCED:Trump: There won't be anything left of Iran if it refuses peace dealhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/05/17/trump-wont-be-anything-left-of-iran-if-refuses-peace-deal/Typhoon jets equipped with cheaper missiles to fend off Iranian attackshttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/17/typhoon-jets-new-missiles-iran-attacks/Tom Cotterill: Trump is using us as a pawn, says Falklands chiefhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/05/10/falkland-islands-trump-is-using-us-as-a-pawn/David Blair: Iran's regime is confident of victory. It may be overplaying its handhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/17/irans-regime-confident-of-victory-it-may-overplaying-hand/Amnesty: Executions surge to highest recorded figure in 44 yearshttps://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2026/05/executions-surge-highest-recorded-figure-44-years/Producer: Peter ShevlinExecutive Producers: Venetia Rainey & Louisa Wells► Sign up to our most popular newsletter, From the Editor. Look forward to receiving free-thinking comment and the day's biggest stories, every morning. telegraph.co.uk/fromtheeditor► EMAIL US: Contact the team on battlelines@telegraph.co.uk ► GET THE LATEST HEADLINES: Find all our latest Iran coverage here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/iran-war/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kuro hosts with Sketch, Laser, Steven and Paul. They recap Rooster Fighter, Tokyo Revengers, Blue Lock. After that they discuss some Toonami related news, mainly the live action Voltron and He-Man movies, Bo-Bobo getting some love in Japan and apparently the real JFA is making Blue Lock real and they're doing it in America?!?!?

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Weird news stories from around the world… with a healthy dose of lasers added in. Does it make sense? Not really, but it doesn’t have to… it’s Laser Stories!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.