Podcasts about elementary principles

What did Dr. Deming really mean when he said to "cease dependence on mass inspection"?    In this episode, Balaji Reddie and host Andrew Stotz unpack why one Ford manager's decision to fire his inspection team missed the point entirely. They explain how inspection can help leaders understand and improve the process, rather than simply sort good from bad.    They also explore why Deming's 14 Points must be understood as a system, including his evolving call for cooperation and win-win thinking among employees, customers, suppliers, and even competitors. Whether you are new to Deming or have studied his work for years, this conversation offers a sharper way to think about quality, systems, and improvement.   TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.0 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we dive deeper into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm continuing my discussion with Balaji Reddie, an educator and trainer in the teachings of Dr. Deming and quality management generally. Balaji, how are you doing today?   0:00:25.1 Balaji Reddie: Oh, I'm doing good. We're meeting after a small little gap, and in the interim I think a few things happened. One of the major things, I think you and I were really happy to see that Bill Scherkenbach sent us a lovely photo. So Bill, if you're listening to this, thank you so much, of course we thank you for the photo. We mentioned the last time or rather when we were speaking that I said that there used to be a group of people that used to meet over the weekend. I don't know what the actual protocol was, but all of the so-called core Deming people, you know, like Gipsie Ranney and Nida Backaitis, I hope I'm getting the names right, Barbara Lawton. And I remember Henry Neave saying he was a part of that. So I didn't see that in the photo. So, maybe one of the weekends he was there over in America and so he was there because he mentioned this. And so Bill very kindly said what it was christened. It was christened the Cosmos Club. And then he shared a photo. So Bill, thank you so much. And also helping us identify most of the people in that photograph. If sometime we could share it with the Deming Institute, if they could show it as part of the... If ever we convert this into some kind of video later on with some slides and things like that, they could add that in.   0:01:53.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, it's still wonderful.   0:01:53.7 Balaji Reddie: That was wonderful. Yes.   0:01:54.9 Andrew Stotz: It's a great picture. In fact, I'm gonna just make sure that I download it for today's episode.   0:02:00.9 Balaji Reddie: Yes, yes.   0:02:01.7 Andrew Stotz: Because I'll supply it to the Institute and ask Bill if we can use it. Let's see.   0:02:08.4 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, I mean, I presume that he would want us to ask, but he is very big-hearted. I think he wouldn't mind at all.   0:02:14.7 Andrew Stotz: He looks like a spring chicken in that picture. [laughter]   0:02:17.2 Balaji Reddie: Oh, yeah, all of them. There was Joyce Orsini too there. It was nice to see the whole jing-bang gang, as they call them, [laughter] the Cosmos Club. But wonderful. So, yes, so last time we were discussing point number one and we saw his interpretation in the broadest sense of constancy of purpose. I shared also what he was saying towards the end of his life that he said, "Create and publish the statement of the aims and purposes of the company or other organization." So he was envisioning that it's no longer one company. It's a family of companies working together. And so there has to be something that binds all these companies together because today's business is very complex. The family is actually globally dispersed. And so there has to be a common thread that links all of these organizations together and that has to be the statement of purpose. Why do we exist? Each could have their own, you know. Because that's what Deming said in the word interdependent components of a system. And interdependent means being independent and mutually dependent simultaneously. So independent does not mean isolated. It means autonomous, that means you go by yourself. You could have your own purpose, but you need to align it with the purpose of the companies you're actually contributing to, which is amazing. So he asks us to look at it that way. And he said that the purpose should be to impact people in the broadest sense of the term. And you, in fact, brought that up, that quality, and we saw what he meant by quality. And then I think we discussed the purpose of educational institutions, et cetera, et cetera. What should they be?   0:04:07.5 Balaji Reddie: So that was point one. Now we get to point two. And I'll start with the original wordings which he wrote in 1986. So let me just pull that up here. He says here that, "Adopt the new philosophy. We are in a new economic age." And then he very specifically states, "Western management must awaken to the challenge, must learn their responsibilities and take on leadership for change." Now, let's look at it both ways because in 1990 he reworded this completely. But let's get back to what he meant in 1986, the new philosophy. Now, what was the new philosophy? What did he mean then? Recently I heard, or I think I saw, Dr. Joseph DeFeo, that is the current CEO of Juran Institute, release a version of the 14 points, or rather saying that these were Dr. Deming's 14 points. And I saw what he wrote there about point number two, which was his interpretation. Now, when I look deep, actually, it looked more like Dr. Juran's interpretation of the 14 points. Incidentally, talking about Dr. Juran and the 14 points, it's no secret that Dr. Juran always said that Deming did not speak much about management, he spoke only about statistics, blah, blah, blah. But there was, if you know, part of the inner circle of Dr. Deming was Dr. Myron Tribus. And Myron Tribus, if you know, was a director at MIT for some time, right? And around the time Deming was there at the Center for Advanced Engineering Study. And when... He, of course, went and met Dr. Juran to speak to him about the 14 points, and then they had a discussion for half a day on the 14 points, and Dr. Juran agreed with every single one of them. He said, "Yeah." He said, "He's spot on." But then he said that he never spoke of management then, and so he stuck to his version that he taught statistics to the Japanese. Anyway, let's leave that aside.   0:06:19.0 Balaji Reddie: But when he spoke about point two, and that's what Juran's interpretation was, that the new philosophy was quality should be the basis for running a business. That was the new philosophy, right? And he said that top management, of course, Deming always said that top management should be involved because unless that happens, nothing happens inside the company. So the new philosophy, what now we interpret is what Dr. Deming was trying to say in 1986, was "quality is the basis for running an organization," right? And quality, again, what we discussed last time, in the broadest sense of the term, not just of a product or a process, but the way you conduct yourself as a business, as a people. So that was the new philosophy. And he said that you should take on leadership for change, and he aimed it at Western management at that point in time, right? So that was the 1986, and he goes on to explain that, saying that we are living with commonly accepted... Because he was trying to shock the Americans at that time, right? If you try to realize when they woke up to quality in the 1980s, primarily to be... I mean, to their credit, to the American businesses, that they were doing a lot of course correction. They realized that they had done things wrong for 20 years, and a lot of course correction started happening, and they started seeing benefits. So they started interpreting that as improvement when actually it was just a correction. And I think Deming wanted to bring in that shock treatment to them, and he said improvement is not enough, right? So at that point in time, that new philosophy was basically that, okay, you're doing it right, but it's not enough. And that's why it has to come from the top. So top people have to be involved. And that was how they interpreted this.   0:08:12.1 Balaji Reddie: And we also looked at it that way. But in 1990, he changed the wordings of the point two, and that was in light of what he had started professing, which was a System of Profound Knowledge. So I'll just read out what he wrote in 1990. He says now, "Adopt the new philosophy of cooperation and win-win, in which everybody wins. Put it into practice and teach it to your employees, your customers, your suppliers, and" why not "your competitors." So that was, I think, the new philosophy. Much of the stuff, if you start seeing, Andrew, when I look at all the 14 points, the 14 points have to be interpreted through the 14 points.   0:09:06.7 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:09:07.8 Balaji Reddie: You need to understand the purpose of each point. You need to understand that they're a system. And that's why you can't just read them sentence by sentence and want to implement them, if you know what I'm trying to say here. They're a system by themselves. So you need to interpret them the right way and through the 14 points... I don't know if I'm making sense to you, but that's exactly how these are. He wanted it to be that way. So you can never tell that you've understood it completely. You're getting me? You're learning something new about it every single day. And as you start looking at things around you through the lens of Profound Knowledge, you will see things differently. And sometimes you see some gaps with the sentences that Dr. Deming was uttering, and then you say, "Okay, okay, this, this, this, I understood it now. I need to make this correction." Right? And so you can never say that I've completely understood them. I mean, after all these years, still reading Out of the Crisis, still doing the series with you, has been a catharsis for me. It's revisiting these things all over again. This, despite the fact that I've been teaching this regularly to my students for the last 20-plus years, it's still new for me.   0:10:24.4 Andrew Stotz: And so could I describe what you just said about interpreting it within the system is that really, that's the thing about systems thinking, is that you can no longer look at an individual part. Every time you get a deeper meaning or understanding of an individual part, that changes the way you view the overall system and the interconnectedness of everything.   0:10:48.6 Balaji Reddie: Exactly.   0:10:48.9 Andrew Stotz: Where life would be much more easy if we could just, "Okay, I understand that one thing deeper and deeper. I can make a control chart better and better and better."   0:11:01.1 Balaji Reddie: So, it's crazy. And this realization came on me way back in, I think around '98 or '99, when I was teaching this, the 14 points, for the third or fourth time. I think I mentioned this in episode one and two, where I told you that it was very easy for me to teach the works of Philip Crosby, very easy to teach the work of Dr. Juran, because they gave methods, they gave steps. But Dr. Deming didn't give anything. You just couldn't show the wording on the slide and get away with it. You had to explain what he wanted us to do. And then, I mentioned this before, you can go back and listen to that episode, but I said that it suddenly struck me, "God damn it, these points are a system." And when I was describing this and I explained this to Hazel Cannon, and she said, "We call this in Deming-speak an 'aha' moment. You had your 'aha' moment." She said, "That's the beauty." She told me once that in the middle of the night, at 3:00 in the morning, she understood what he was trying to say, and she called up Dr. Deming.   0:12:11.3 Balaji Reddie: And he was very, very patient. He listened to her. And she said, "I'm sorry. I..." He said, "I knew you'd understand." That's all he said. So he used to be very happy when people used to call back and suddenly say, "We realized it now, what you were trying to say then." So it's a moment of realization. So this point to... If you read some of the notes that he gave to the Japanese in 1950, and incidentally, it's they who made the notebook and then he added on to it, if you know, Elementary Principles of the Statistical Control of Quality, first edition and then the second edition. And when they made the first edition, they had actually done this without his permission. But when they told him that we made these notes, they thought that he would be a little upset because of copyrights, blah, blah. But instead he was so happy that they'd done that, he actually helped them with the second edition. And if you read those notes, a lot of things there where he was speaking about cooperation, about understanding people. So that may not have been explicitly stated by him in his lectures in Japan, they understood it. Right? And that's a very... I don't want to sound communal here, but a very Asian way of looking at it. Because our languages are very metaphorical, so we always look for different meanings to the statements being uttered. And we always look out for what has this person actually not said, which I... Or rather, yeah, has not said, which I have not heard, but I need to hear. Right?   0:13:46.5 Balaji Reddie: So that's amazing, how they looked at what he was saying. I'll give an instance here where he talks about the use of the control chart, and he says that you can use it for training a worker. And then if you see that before and after training, there's been no change in the control chart, well, then the worker's attained his optimum. Then use that worker somewhere else. He talks in a very positive way about understanding people. And then going back to what we spoke in our second episode about the principles of leadership, it comes back there, that choose people in the right way and optimize all of their aims, hopes, et cetera. So coming back here, the new philosophy, basically, now we can interpret it as what he intended it to be in 1990. He said, "Win-win." But the original wordings are also... You don't replace it, you add on to it, right? So we look at it this way, that he meant that quality should be the center point of running your business. People at the top should be involved. And now we talk about cooperation, win-win. And he says this, "Teach and practice this." Now, all these things are easier said than done. We know that. But we should make an attempt. So employees, your customers, your suppliers, and your competitors. Sometimes it could be funny, right? You go up to your competitor and you say, "Look, I think we've done enough of this, going at each other's throat. Let's get together to do something." And obviously the other person will say, "What's the agenda?" They'll think you have some hidden agenda. So it's gonna be difficult when you start doing this. But I think that's become... Slowly people are warming up to that idea of being close to your competitors and learning with them and from them. Right? We don't look at them as a rival in the true sense, trying to cut the other guy down and things like that. But that's the way it is. And if you say that it's a cutthroat thing, but we need to have some things in common before we decide to branch out and go our own way. Right? So there has to be some kind of a cooperation so that win-win... But main thing is to win, that is, everyone wins. He says, "Some may win less than others, but we all win just the same." So the whole purpose was that. Yeah.   0:16:02.4 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because I remember hearing that when I was younger and the first thing is cooperating just within a team. The second one is cooperating maybe within a department. Another one is cooperating within a business. And then... That's already hard enough to get to. And then he talked about cooperating within an industry. And of course, there are anti-trust laws in America, which he wasn't talking about colluding on prices to take advantage of the position against the customer. But he was also... I think if we look at AI right now, the development of artificial intelligence, and to what extent could the industry work together to safeguard, for instance, or to understand the development of the energy needed to do this, you know.   0:16:54.4 Balaji Reddie: Yes.   0:16:55.3 Andrew Stotz: Or how do countries across the world work together to make sure that one doesn't have an unfair advantage with AI or with energy or that type of thing? So, yeah, it was definitely interesting when I first heard it. But as I look at it now, I get what he's saying about the industry cooperation.   0:17:15.3 Balaji Reddie: Yes, I saw this in our country, in India, where you had the rival mobile service providers getting together and realizing that the hardware needed was the same, the software would be different. So they got together and created a company, you heard that right, a company, that set up mobile communication towers. So there are no multiple towers everywhere for each mobile provider. There's one set of towers, and it was a separate company. And by the way, that company went on to win the Deming Prize.   0:17:48.0 Andrew Stotz: Interesting, interesting. It's interesting that the concept for point number two is... And sometimes I read it and I think, "Adopt the new philosophy." It's kind of obvious, isn't it?   0:18:04.1 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. [laughter]   0:18:05.8 Andrew Stotz: And that's where part of what you're talking about, about understanding all of it through the Deming 14 points lens.   0:18:13.7 Balaji Reddie: Right. Yes.   0:18:14.9 Andrew Stotz: But I can also think... I wanted to highlight back for those people that weren't around at that time. I graduated from university in 1989. I went to work at Pepsi. And so Out of the Crisis came out about 1986. And I remember during my years at university, the Japanese were just killing the American car manufacturers. And the motorcycle companies were killing... Honda and the others were killing Harley-Davidson.   0:18:43.2 Balaji Reddie: Right.   0:18:43.5 Andrew Stotz: Even to the extent that Harley-Davidson and others went to the government to try to get Reagan to give them tariff protection, which he did, in fact. But there was a huge debate I had in class, I remember, about protection versus competition. And it just highlights what was going on. And so Out of the Crisis, as you mentioned, the title, just the idea of shocking people to say, "We're in a crisis," I think at that time it was really apropos. And also the other part is he's talking about Western management.   0:19:21.1 Balaji Reddie: Yes.   0:19:21.4 Andrew Stotz: Western management. And now you look at... Japan was really doing great at that time. And now we have Japan and China that's also made huge strides. And so it's just so fascinating that he was directing it at Western management for sure, that we've got to fix things. And sometimes I look back and I think, "Oh yeah, Western management learned and improved," because we've got so much innovation going on in America as an example and all of that.   0:19:52.6 Balaji Reddie: Right. Right.   0:19:53.4 Andrew Stotz: But sometimes I look at the developments of the Chinese or Japan and I think, "Hmmm...Did we learn? Did we learn?" Look at the trade balance, look at the amount of debt, look at that in the US and you think, "I don't know." I'm curious, how would you score it?   0:20:09.5 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, I mean, that's just what I had to say. So the whole approach towards this whole thing being holistic, not just looking at it from a very narrow point of view and realizing that we need each other, we can't do without... We call them competitors, but they are also helping us do a better job. They're pushing me to look out for what I'm good at and I don't have to put somebody else down to show myself as big. And if I contribute to the industry in a very big way, not only do I gain, others gain, and if I share, then they would also share with me, right? So that realization, I think, is coming in. And if you think about this, it was very interesting, the mathematician by the name John Nash, if you remember him, he actually postulated this in terms of mathematics in 1950, and he got a PhD from Princeton for this. Now, I would give full credit to the jury listening to his dissertation, defending his thesis, that you had to do this because, interestingly, he gets a Nobel Prize for that in 1974. It took 24 years for the world to figure out what he was trying to say. And you want to go read that, he was thinking win-win.   0:21:41.7 Balaji Reddie: So I often wondered if Dr. Deming, John Nash, did they know each other? Obviously, they didn't, but they were thinking and saying the same thing in two different parts of the world. He was doing that here in the US and Deming was talking about this there in Japan, and he was talking about telling the Japs that Japan must see itself as a system. And so all their companies actually work together. We see them as versus; they don't see each other as versus. You're interestingly saying this about the two-wheeler companies, the bikes... In India, we had just one or two bikes before the four Japanese companies came in. It was Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha. And they tied up with different Indian companies. Now, of course, after a long time, they've all gone their separate ways. But as a teenager, I remember these. And the funny thing was all four motorcycles were different and all four sold well. All four. And they sold in different parts of the country.   0:22:43.8 Balaji Reddie: I can tell you this firsthand because just after I completed my engineering, I was looking for a job. So I had some time to myself and my mother's friend, she ran a market research agency and she just called up one fine day and said, "Would Balaji care to do this market research for me? It's about bikes." So I had to travel north, south, east, west and tape a conversation with bikers asking them which motorcycles they liked among these four. And these four, the plants were set up at four different places in our country. So north, south, east, west, typically, you know how vast India is in that sense. And the one... It was very interesting. The bikes that were made in the north were sold very well in the south, and some made in the south were sold very well in the west. It was crazy. But there was, of course, one motorcycle that would always stand out and people would say that, "Yeah, this is the one which really..." But that would always be the case. But by and large, everyone did well. Looking back, I say that, wow, they were practicing this without us knowing it.   0:23:51.6 Balaji Reddie: And even now, if you know, I don't know whether this happens outside of India, but Suzuki and Toyota in India have collaborated with each other to use the car body, if you know what I mean. The insides would be their own inside. Suzuk... Maruti is the name of the Indian company that's tied up with Suzuki Motor. So you have Maruti Suzuki and Toyota. They have common bodies, names are different, but the inside is Toyota technology and Suzuki technology. So they've decided, they just realized that they need each other, right? And they're doing exceedingly well, both. Just both.   0:24:33.7 Andrew Stotz: Sharing the platform.   0:24:36.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. It's crazy. And you don't start bothering so much about trying to defend yourself, right? You go ahead and focus on what you're good at. So this point two, the new philosophy, what it meant before and what it means now, I would not say it replaced it, but it's just added on to it, where he said that top management should be involved. That was the new philosophy, that quality has to come from the top. Western management waking up, et cetera. The Western managers to see quality is the basis for running your organization. It should be your strategy. And he just says as an extension of that strategy, we need to get together and cooperate and think win-win. So that's the new philosophy. It takes us, he always says, a new reward system would come in. It would be a better applied science. You can read that in The New Economics, that what is the purpose of this entire new philosophy, The New Economics, where he explains this.   0:25:39.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:25:41.4 Balaji Reddie: In a nutshell is point two. So the purpose was to shock the Western management at that point in time, but also in a different sense, try to open the eyes of people even now that please don't think small, think big, right? The new philosophy tells us look beyond the boundaries that you've artificially created and see what you can do with the others, including your competitors. And don't look at them as adversaries, rather than partners in something that both of you will grow. Maybe not evenly, but you will grow. So that was...   0:26:18.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. One last thing for me on that is just the idea that he reinforces the focus that quality is, the key is the customer in that process of quality.   0:26:33.8 Balaji Reddie: That's right. That's right.   0:26:34.4 Andrew Stotz: As opposed to it's not about quality, quality, quality, control charts and QC circles and all that. It's about what is quality in the eyes of the customer and how do we better deliver that. So that always gave me so much comfort when I learned what he was teaching, that he wasn't just... It wasn't all about quality and tools. It was about quality in the eyes of the customer.   0:27:00.8 Balaji Reddie: Right. So that's why he said tools are just 3%. And you can be 100% excellent at the 3% and still run out of business, right? He always said that. So you need to apply this in the broader sense of the term. So that was...   [overlapping conversation]   0:27:08.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And the problem is if you don't understand the system and you don't understand the whole teaching, then even if you're good at the tools, you may misinterpret from the tools.   0:27:25.6 Balaji Reddie: Yes. So, right, so that was point two.   0:27:30.4 Andrew Stotz: Whoo!   0:27:31.3 Balaji Reddie: So now we come to point three. [laughter] Now point three... Yeah, we just got I think 15-odd minutes, but I'll cover some part of it and I think we'll continue with this.   0:27:34.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, yeah. We good. I got time.   0:27:42.5 Balaji Reddie: Point three. Now this again has been so crazily misinterpreted. All right, so I'll start with the wordings once again, I'm referring to the document what he wrote. And he says now, "Cease dependence on mass inspection to achieve quality. Eliminate the need for inspection on a mass basis by building quality into the product in the first place." Now if you look at that, he was talking much about the act of inspecting and the entire activity-based and saying don't depend. The keyword was "cease dependence," because if you hear what happened in one funny case where the manager from Ford went back and just sacked all his inspectors saying Dr. Deming said we don't need inspection. But that was, I think, overstating it. But nevertheless, the keyword is dependence. Don't depend on inspection. And then he said, build quality into the product in the first place. And then he quotes Harold Dodge who said you cannot inspect quality into a product. Quality is already there. Inspection just reports what's happening. It doesn't tell you where... You know.   0:29:00.4 Andrew Stotz: Yep.   0:29:03.4 Balaji Reddie: Andrew, can you hear me?   0:29:05.8 Andrew Stotz: Yes. Keep going. So what you're talking about is the idea of thinking about quality not from the perspective...   0:29:20.2 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, we got disconnected.   0:29:21.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. What I was saying you're talking about is this idea of cease dependence on inspection, that it doesn't mean inspection's completely gone, but it means starting at the beginning of the process and thinking about how do we improve things from there. So continue on.   0:29:37.3 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, so I just said here that he was not so much at that time when he wrote this, like I said here, it was misinterpreted because, yes, he did start with saying the activity, the activity-based thing about inspection, that we should not depend on it. And I think I mentioned that Ford... One of the managers of Ford, misinterpreted that and sacked his inspectors and things like that. But he said that eliminate the need for inspection by building quality into the process and the product in the first place. So the word was dependence. And so he did not say that you need to eliminate the act of inspecting. In fact, it's very interesting what he actually spoke about this in the workbook which you get when you go a four-day seminar on video which was created by General Motors, right?   0:30:30.6 Balaji Reddie: So those video cassettes, and then the workbook that came with that had a very interesting take on inspection. So he said that it doesn't mean that we're gonna stop. He said you'd be a fool to keep yourself in the dark about what's happening in the process. You need to know what's happening in the process. So he's not saying that do away, he's saying use inspection. So now he actually said this, and here's where the interpretation comes in: understand the purpose of inspection. The purpose of inspection is to give yourself more and more knowledge of the process, not for sorting bad from good, because good and bad product come from the same process. We need to fix the process. And this is to be interpreted if you talk about how he looked at this, because if you read what he spoke about the nine heavy losses, when we discuss those, he says that one of the losses was performance appraisal. So I want to ask those people who say that this interpretation, isn't performance appraisal quality by inspection? You're sorting bad from good based on some arbitrary measure that you created in your head. You decide what's good, you decide what's bad. You're God, is it?   0:31:52.9 Balaji Reddie: I mean, Douglas McGregor actually wrote an article on this saying that managers don't like to play God, right? And he's the one who advocated, no, we don't need performance appraisal. It actually harms. And Dr. Deming just said the same thing. So if you read Douglas McGregor's book, The Human Side of Enterprise, there's a new version, the annotated version, where they've given commentary of what some experts or some the interpretations of the text. And I was amazed to see Dr. Deming's name come up there and saying that Dr. Deming also concurred with this and said it in very plain words that do not carry out performance appraisal. And he likened it to using inspection to create quality, whereas we know it doesn't. So fix the process. Right? And then people again take this in piecemeal and start quoting Deming: "A bad system will beat a good person anytime." I don't know what to say here, really. I mean, he obviously he said... He was trying to explain that you cannot judge that person based on the output of the system. I mean, it's an output of the system, the person. So you need to look at it that way. I don't know whether I'm making sense here, but that's the way to look at this point number three. Right? And he says that don't depend. Use the inspection to understand the process. Now, he says here, and I think I've got the text in that, he says, "There will always be inspection. We must never deliberately leave ourselves devoid of information on how the process is doing. Is it still in statistical control? Is there a trend? Were our efforts towards shrinkage of variation or change of level successful? The function of inspection is optimization of the whole system, including suppliers of materials and services and the ultimate consumer." So he very clearly stated this, that this is a system. And this was the system he was talking about, right? And he says here that it's not about just manufacturing, service. It's if you are really, really interpreting this, then you'd also remove performance appraisal in the process, right? Because that's quality by inspection. Uh-oh.   0:34:21.2 Andrew Stotz: The Human Side of Enterprise, the annotated edition, is available on Amazon. Just looking at it right now, this annotated edition came out in 2023. So I haven't read it, so I'm gonna check it out myself.   0:34:42.1 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, I think I lost you again.   0:34:44.5 Andrew Stotz: Yep. I just went through the details about The Human Side of Enterprise and that latest version or edition that's just come out that you've mentioned. It came out in 2023.   0:34:57.0 Balaji Reddie: Right, right. So you could get that, read that book, you'll get to see it. And he very clearly... Did you record that bit where I read out the text?   0:35:09.4 Andrew Stotz: I don't remember that.   0:35:10.8 Balaji Reddie: Okay, I'll just read it out again so you can edit it later. So, yeah, he says here, "There will always be inspection. We must never deliberately leave ourselves devoid of information on how the process is doing. Is it still in statistical control? Is there a trend? Were our efforts towards shrinkage of variation or change of level successful? The function of inspection is optimization of the whole system, including suppliers of materials and services and the ultimate consumer." Did you get that? Did that get recorded?   0:35:45.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:35:46.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. So that's exactly what he meant. He said that he was not talking about the act, and he said you would have some inspection. Now, interestingly, a very, very different take on this that, yeah, I told you Myron Tribus was talking to Dr. Juran about this, and Dr. Juran gave his interpretation. Because if you know, he invented this badly misunderstood and abused term called cost of quality, right? And if you know why he invented it and what happened later, I don't even want to get into it. He said, "The only way I could grab management's attention was to present my problem in terms of money. If I explained to them and said to them that there is... This process running at 90% efficiency, they would be happy. They said, "Great." He said, "No, it's not great." And then they just wouldn't listen. They said, "90% is great." So he said, "How do I talk to them?" And so he went back to them and said, "Okay, your process is running at 90% efficiency." They said, "Yes." He said, "But you're paying 100% salary to this guy to do 90% good work, and then you're paying 100% salary to another guy to remove the 10% bad work, and then you're paying 100% salary to a third guy to correct that bad work." And that's how he invented cost of quality.   0:37:11.8 Balaji Reddie: Now people have gone and overindulged in this and they start having arguments about what is the category and where should it fit in and... Anyway, what he was trying to say is there are some activities where the more money you spend, the better it is. And so he came up with that cost of prevention and of course, I mean, conformance and non-conformance. In conformance, there were two categories. One was called prevention, where the more money you spend, obviously the better it is, but you get... You know, the returns on them will come much, much later, like training and spending money on the right things like maintaining your equipment, blah, blah, blah, research and development. He also gave a category called appraisal. And appraisal, he says, these are all activities which are necessary evils. [laughter] That means you can't eliminate them, at the same time you should not overtly depend on them to create quality. And one of them was inspection. And he says you should not spend more than necessary on inspection, just enough.   0:38:16.1 Balaji Reddie: Now here's the question I get, how much do we spend? [laughter] And the trick which I read somewhere and I saw that because I interpreted these points both ways. So when you start doing this, you walk into a company, make them calculate how much money they're spending on inspection right now. So let's say it's $100,000 or rupees or whatever. Now you start implementing the improvement processes, you start understanding the process and you start, well, the works, control charts, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you start seeing that the process is getting better and so your defects are coming down and things are getting better generally. And so you're spending lesser money on inspection, you're spending lesser time on inspection, your resources are going in the right direction. And so that amount starts coming down and you keep doing that and you keep doing that and then you reach a point where you say, "Okay, this is it. I need this much of inspection at a bare minimum to keep myself," like Dr. Deming said, "not devoid of any information." I need to know what's happening. So that need-to-know basis, just enough, now that becomes the cap, right? And you say now, "If after this I see an increase in the money being spent, then... It's not that I'm going to go and just eliminate. I'll try to find out why." And if you look at it, that's exactly what Dr. Deming said, understand the purpose of inspection is to make the process better. The product, of course, will get better and you use the inspection intelligently to understand because good and bad products come from the same process. This is absolutely true for both manufacturing as well as services. You always can look at the activities and see which are the ones which are prone to a lot of mistakes that can happen and then you try to help the person carrying out the process. "Can I eliminate this? Can I reduce this?"   0:40:14.0 Balaji Reddie: And talking about AI, I think AI can help a lot in that, in much of the so-called mundane activities which are repeatable and being done on a regular basis. You can bring in AI over there, use it in the right way. Right? Even for the inspection thing, they talk about it, but yeah, like I said, we need to keep our eye and just keep glancing at it, but not going and standing in front of the process all the time. You don't need to do that. Just... So like Dr. Deming said, watch that... Look at the trend, the impact of my action that I need to inspect. So in that sense, like I said, the act of inspecting will never go away, but our reliance on that will come down drastically. And once in a while, just glancing through, just letting us know that things are going according to plan is the right way of looking at this. Anyway, I think that's all we have time for today, Andrew.   0:41:10.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. So I'm gonna wrap up by saying 290 years ago, Benjamin Franklin said, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."   0:41:23.2 Balaji Reddie: Wow.   0:41:24.2 Andrew Stotz: Well, it's a lot of what you've just described is the idea of starting at the beginning and trying to reduce the need to depend on inspection. I love the stuff that you talked about about... He didn't say eliminate inspection, he said reduce the dependence. And that really reminded me that there's a purpose. And as you've described, the purposes of inspection isn't only just, "Okay, we don't want something bad going out to the customer," but what it really is about is understanding how are we doing. How have the upstream preventative or improvements that we've done in the upstream resolved or reduced what's happening at the downstream? I think that was a major thing for me as a young guy when I first heard Deming, to understand that, start at the beginning and try to get things right from the beginning, that will reduce the amount of trouble that you have towards the end. So, fantastic.   0:42:22.2 Balaji Reddie: That's true. That's true. All right, then.   0:42:24.5 Andrew Stotz: Well...   0:42:25.1 Balaji Reddie: We meet again next week or week after that to continue this.   0:42:27.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I look forward to it. And for the listeners out there, remember to go to deming.org and jump into DemingNext to continue your journey.   0:42:36.5 Balaji Reddie: Yes.   0:42:37.0 Andrew Stotz: This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, which is, "People are entitled to joy in work."   0:42:45.3 Balaji Reddie: "Joy in work."

The third elementary principle listed by the Hebrew writer is “the doctrine of baptisms” (Hebrews 6:2). The shadow of the Old Testament is filled with “various washings” (Hebrews 9:10) which point to the true washing in Jesus' blood accessed in baptism.

The second elementary principle listed by the Hebrew writer is “faith towards God” (Hebrews 6:1). It is impossible to please God without faith (Hebrews 11:6). However, it is imperative that we understand faith as the Bible portrays it.

The first of six elementary principles listed by the Hebrew writer is “repentance from dead works” (Hebrews 6:1). Repentance is rejected by many and misunderstood by more. Without being grounded in the principle the Christian cannot grow and live according to his calling.

The Hebrew writer paused his thought flow in the epistle to give necessary admonition for the readers' failure to move on from the elementary principles of Christ (Hebrews 6:1-3). We must mature, but this also illustrates the importance of those elementary principles.

What does great leadership actually look like? Can you make a difference even if you're in the middle of the hierarchy? "If you think you're too small, you've not spent the night under a bedsheet with a mosquito." In this episode, educator and Deming practitioner Balaji Reddie explains why W. Edwards Deming was far more practical about leadership than many people realize. Drawing on both The New Economics and Out of the Crisis, Balaji shares stories and examples that bring Deming's 17 principles of leadership to life. From creating trust and joy in work to understanding variation, coaching people, and improving systems, this conversation challenges conventional management thinking and offers a clear path toward transformation. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.2 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm continuing my discussion with Balaji Reddie, who is an educator and trainer in the teachings of Dr. Deming and quality management generally. And the topic for today is Principles of Leadership. Balaji, take it away.   0:00:27.9 Balaji Reddie: Good morning. Thank you so much, Andrew. We had left our last session with that, we'd be dealing with this. And of course, Dr. Deming gave us the outline of Profound Knowledge and he gave us 14 points. He also gave us the deadly diseases and the 16 Obstacles. So people often talk about the diseases, but very often they forget the obstacles. And there are 16 of them which he highlighted for us. And if you think that they're outdated, they're as relevant as they ever were. So you need to keep revisiting those. I think if you start working on removing the obstacles, it's like you're taking your foot off the brake rather than pressing on the accelerator.   0:01:11.3 Balaji Reddie: So you're removing the things that actually stop you before you actually take things forward. But nevertheless, we start with point number 14 where he says, take action to complete, to make the transformation. And he says that there should be a critical mass of people that you need to educate and train and get them on the same page as you are. I'm gonna quote Hazel Cannon here, who is current president of the British Deming Forum. And she talks about the time when she was very young and she attended the Deming four-day seminar, I think in Birmingham. And at the end of those four days, she was overwhelmed as you normally are when you hear how the man speak. And he spoke... He wanted you to make drastic changes. It's not just tinkering here and there.   0:02:08.2 Balaji Reddie: And so she went up to him and she said, "I'm really taken up by what you just said." And then she made a statement, "I'm too small to make these changes in my organization." I believe she worked as a lab assistant in a chemical manufacturing company. They used to make chemicals for cosmetics. So she said, "I'm too small." And Deming just interrupted her and said, "Never think you're too small. If you think you're too small, you've not spent the night under a bedsheet with a mosquito." So make a change where you are and take it from there. So I would like to now quote Dr. Deming from Out of the Crisis. This is Plan for Action: Take action to accomplish the transformation. So he writes there, there are three points and then I'll come to what he writes below that.   0:03:01.8 Balaji Reddie: So he says, "Management in authority will struggle over every one of the above 13 points, the deadly diseases, and the obstacles. They will agree on their meaning and on the direction to take. They will agree to carry out the new philosophy. Management in authority will take pride in their adoption of the new philosophy and in their new responsibilities. They will have courage to break with tradition, even to the point of exile among their peers." So he talks about courage. He talks about courage of conviction. And then he says, "Management in authority will explain by seminars and other means." So I think he leaves it to people of the ways and means. And now today there are a lot of means of doing that. DemingNEXT is one of them. And he says, "To the critical mass of people in the company why change is necessary and that the change will involve everybody."   0:04:00.9 Balaji Reddie: Now he writes something very interesting. He says, "This whole movement may be instituted and carried out by middle management speaking with one voice." So he gave instructions. Why are people saying that he did not tell us what to do? It is just that he expected maybe a lot. And now let's get to that middle management and what he expected. He says here... Let's see here. I'm coming to chapter four now in The New Economics where he says, "A System of Profound Knowledge. The aim of this chapter: the prevailing style of management must undergo transformation." So we just heard that, that what we need to do. And he says, "A system cannot understand itself. The transformation requires a view from the outside. The aim of this chapter is to provide an outside view, a lens that I call a System of Profound Knowledge.   0:04:59.7 Balaji Reddie: It provides a map of theory by which to understand the organizations that we work in." Then he says, "The first step is transformation of the individual. This transformation is discontinuous. It comes from understanding the System of Profound Knowledge." Then he says that "the individual, once transformed, will set an example." So setting an example, I believe, is doing the right thing under adverse circumstances, when you stick to your principles despite the fact that there is an easier way out. As they say, choosing a path between good and bad is easy, you choose good. But good and better, you need to make the right choice. And that needs profound knowledge. "So be a good listener," he says, "but will not compromise. Continually teach other people and help people pull away from their current practice and beliefs and move to the new philosophy without a feeling of guilt about the past."   0:06:02.7 Balaji Reddie: So he explains to us what was needed here, right? And he says this is what we actually need to do. Now I'd like to, I mean, I'll be referring to a document. I don't know how we're gonna get this to people, but for the Principles of Leadership. All right, I think I'll have to send this over to you later, but we will do that. So in the Principles of Leadership, just come to them. I am quoting again from both Out of the Crisis and The New Economics. So you will find this there when he speaks about what needs to be done. Modern Principles of Leadership. And he says, "The modern principles of leadership will replace the annual performance review. The first step in a company will be to provide education in leadership." So that would be introducing people to profound knowledge from what we just heard. Then he said, "The annual performance review may then be abolished." Of course, that will take time. "Leadership will take its place, and this is what Western management should have been doing all along."   0:07:12.6 Balaji Reddie: So he says, "The annual performance review sneaked in and became popular because it does not require anyone to face the problems of people. It is easier to rate them, focus on the outcome. What Western industry needs is methods that will improve the outcome." And he says, "Suggestions follow." So first, institute... The first principle. "Institute education in leadership: the obligations, the principles, and methods." And so I think introduction to the System of Profound Knowledge will help. And then after profound knowledge has been sort of brought to the notice of... Of bringing to the notice of the people then you get into perhaps teaching them about 14 Points, et cetera.   0:07:57.8 Balaji Reddie: Comes the second principle. He says, "Ensure more careful selection of people in the first place." So choosing the people, he says again, now here's where it requires you to understand the purpose of what you're doing, purpose of your organization, purpose of the people you're looking out for and making this change. Because when you know your purpose, you know the aim, then you can choose people in the right way. And I believe he said this somewhere, it's a combination of education, training, skills, and experience. So we need to combine these four factors in choosing the right people. Then he says, after selection of the people, ensure better training and education. So we fine-tune all of their... He says a complete background. He said their aspirations, their goals.   0:08:54.2 Balaji Reddie: I kind of borrowed this idea from a company here in India where they had this thing called roles, responsibilities, and objectives. And they used to meet once in a month, but once in a year they used to decide. So the top management, the HR, would sit down with each and every employee and say that, "In this calendar year, this is what we intend to do and this is what we expect from you." And in turn, they used to ask the employee, "What do you expect from us? Because this is what we want from you." And then the employee had a chance of putting forth what he or she wanted, the management, what help they needed. And I think this is where we have to be... It's a give and take. And they didn't just meet once a year; every month they would meet and the question was, "How are we doing?" not "What have you done?"   0:09:51.1 Balaji Reddie: So I think it wasn't a traditional appraisal. If there was any appraisal, it was appraising what top management were doing or intended to do and not so much the employee. I thought that was a good move. So that's what we need to do here: better training and education. Principle number four states: "A manager understands and conveys to his people the meaning of a system. He explains the aims of the system. He teaches his people to understand how the work of the group supports these aims." Now, here's where, you know, when you talk about, say, hiring people in the first place, when you bring in new employees, I believe that there should be a special session by people inside the company who have stayed the longest, who served the company the longest, especially during their bad days. Because the employees need to know what really happened and how the company survived and how we were resilient, we came back despite all the problems that we had.   0:11:00.7 Balaji Reddie: And the historical perspective, especially if there's someone who's in touch with the founding members, that would be a great boon. I know nowadays we talk about the older companies, obviously none of the founders are there, but if there is such a person, exchanging those ideas with the young employees would definitely make a difference. So they would then understand the purpose, the aims, and how your work supports these aims. I think it's the best way to do that. But what I see right now in companies and I'm being very specific about this, because today when new employees join the company, they have an orientation, they have onboarding, as they call it, but that's done by a rookie, someone who's just joined the company and is just making...   0:11:46.8 Andrew Stotz: [0:11:46.8] Following a checklist?   0:11:48.1 Balaji Reddie: Exactly. Like a PowerPoint presentation. They don't talk about the history of the company. And I think there has to be an emotional connect before there is a logical or an intellectual connect. That emotional connect, I think, then makes you feel that pride and you feel good about coming to work and you say, "Oh, I did not know." So I believe this fourth principle is important in that sense, in the way to do that. Now, he says that... Principle five says he helps...   0:12:19.7 Andrew Stotz: By the way, do you know what chapter are you in?   0:12:23.9 Balaji Reddie: Oh, I have combined.   0:12:27.9 Andrew Stotz: Okay.   0:12:29.4 Balaji Reddie: I took some of the text... Okay. If you want to see here, this is management of people, all right? In that chapter. So I've taken... There are 14 principles there, management of people. In the new edition of The New Economics. It appears...   0:12:48.2 Andrew Stotz: So chapter six.   0:12:50.2 Balaji Reddie: Chapter six, yeah. That's chapter six...   0:12:51.8 Andrew Stotz: Yep.   0:12:52.6 Balaji Reddie: All right. And he talks about pictorial effect of transformation, and then he talks about management of people, role of a manager of people. So there were 14 there, but in Out of the Crisis, the first three which were there, he did not include here.   0:13:10.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay. I just just asked...   0:13:11.0 Balaji Reddie: So I just included those. Yeah. No, so that when people read the book, they could read it clearly, right? So, yeah. So he says now principle number five, which in Economics is principle number two or three, right? He says "he helps his people to see themselves as components in a system, to work in cooperation with preceding stages and following stages toward optimization of the efforts of all stages towards achievement of the aim." So we want optimization, not compromise. So you need to sit together. Just if I were to ask a simple question to you, Andrew, and without thinking, if I were to try to answer this question... Okay. I presume you know how to make a cup of tea.   0:13:58.7 Andrew Stotz: Yes.   0:14:00.1 Balaji Reddie: So what is the first step?   0:14:02.7 Andrew Stotz: For me, boil water.   0:14:04.6 Balaji Reddie: Boil water. And what if I say that's not the first step?   0:14:12.0 Andrew Stotz: Well, first of all, I think you probably have more experience with tea than I do, but I have more experience with espresso, probably. But anyways, go ahead and tell me.   0:14:20.9 Balaji Reddie: Okay. The first question is, whom am I making a cup of tea for? So what I just tried to convey is it's not natural to think about the customer. And so the first step is, for whom is the cup of tea? If it's the person...   0:14:30.8 Andrew Stotz: Grandma.   0:14:40.7 Balaji Reddie: That's right. If she's diabetic, then you would not need sugar. So you gather the ingredients accordingly. If he wants black tea, you don't take milk, right? And that's the point he's trying to say here. When you look at different stages, every every person has a customer. So the first question is, who is my customer?   0:15:07.1 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:15:07.4 Balaji Reddie: And that part of profound knowledge, understanding psychology, I mentioned this last time, is empathy. The word empathy captures this. So you go to the next process as, "Whom am I doing this work for?" and sit down with that person and say, "What do you expect from me? How may I help you?" And that's what decides what you're gonna do. So this this fifth principle here, that he helps his people see themselves as components, I think this is important. The next process is your immediate customer, and the rest of them are customers in a very oblique sense. But what you do is critical to the next person in line, right? So you always spend extra time with that person and of course the other people down the line who your work is gonna be impacting over a period of time, right? But these are the... This is the first step you find out. So who's my customer? So that's principle five.   0:16:09.0 Balaji Reddie: Principle number six: now this comes under psychology again, that a manager of people understands that people are different from each other. He tries to create for everybody interest and challenge and joy in work. Now, if you look at the theory of knowledge, what exactly did he give us when he brought that component of profound knowledge into play? He says that theory is a statement that conveys knowledge by relating cause to effect. So I repeat, theory is a statement which conveys knowledge by relating some cause to some effect. It fits without fail all the observations of the past and helps us predict the future with the risk of being wrong.   0:17:04.7 Balaji Reddie: So I'm gonna repeat this whole statement again. Theory is a statement which conveys knowledge. How? By relating some cause to some effect. It fits without fail all the observations of the past and helps us predict the future with the risk of being wrong. So no amount of examples can establish a theory, and even one example can lead to either abandonment of the theory or modification of the theory. That's what he kept saying. Now, how does this work? So he says it's a system of learning, and all of us have this built in, right? Now, he came from the school of Clarence Irving Lewis, Mind and the World-Order. And if you read that book, Lewis says all knowledge is a priori, it's based on what you already know.   0:18:00.9 Balaji Reddie: For example, let me take this example here. Now, suppose I were to start describing the road to my house. Now, you've not been here, but if I start saying that the road bends towards the left and then there is a command you get to see, now you start constructing a picture in your head based on what you have already seen. It's not the same. That's your theory, right? And then when you actually visit, you say, "Oh, it's the difference between theory and what I actually saw," and then you change your theory. So theory is... It's natural. All of us think naturally like this. And that's why he says here that people are different from one another and we need to celebrate those differences. All of us are born with the system of learning, but not all of us learn the same way.   0:18:49.8 Balaji Reddie: There are some who learn by watching, there are some who learn by doing, there's some who learn by reading, there's some who learn by writing. For some people, one word is enough. You utter a word and they say, "I got it." And for some people, you have to repeat the statement maybe 10 times, 11 times, and then the 12th time you repeat it, they say, "Okay, I got it." Now, is that wrong? We're just different, right? And that's why he says here that we need to understand the learning process of people. And when you understand the learning process of a person and then put that person in the right job, you'll have to stop that person from working. That was his definition of joy in work. People enjoy their work when they realize it resonates with them.   0:19:40.4 Balaji Reddie: And how does that resonance come in? When you under... And because this is so difficult to do, we just throw the responsibility on them by saying, "Here's the target." So the target actually distracts them when actually you should be working on understanding their learning process. So it's a lot of hard work. And sometimes people are motivated enough to discover it themselves, which is great, but we need to create that atmosphere for them to enjoy their work. So interest, challenge, et cetera, he tries to optimize. Now, here's the key. This is beautiful. He tries to optimize family background, education, skills, hopes, and abilities of everyone.   0:20:21.7 Balaji Reddie: So this is not ranking people, very clear. It is instead recognition of differences between people and an attempt to put everybody in a position for development. I think this is one of the most important principles in getting things done. When I teach this to the HR students in my college, I keep saying that I don't think you should call this science as human resource management, because the definition of a resource is obtain it, shape it, use it, and throw it away. We don't wanna do that. I think we should change the title of that department to Department of Learning, because that's what exactly this is all about, and it's learning in both ways where you are trying to understand their process of learning and in effect, you're trying to understand how the company is going to be learning.   0:21:17.0 Balaji Reddie: So you put this in... So this principle, he says, combine all of these things: family background, education, hopes, I love that word. Because if you see one of the things that people talk about, customer satisfaction, I think Deming was the only person who said customers should be happy. Not just satisfied, happier, right? Now comes the next principle. "He is an unceasing learner." So you can never say, "I know it all." Unceasing learner, he encourages his people to study. And I think this fits Dr. Deming himself. He made no excuses to learn. "May I not learn," he would keep repeating that. And I remember Bill Cooper getting irritated and said, "The last time I met you, you said this, and now you're saying this. I got that on tape." He said, "Well, you got this on tape now." He said that, "I do, I learn. And as I learn," he said, "that could have been under different circumstances that I said that, but I'm saying this."   0:22:22.4 Balaji Reddie: And so you keep learning. And he encourages his people to study. The word is study. And he provides, when possible and feasible, seminars and courses for advancement of learning, encourages continued education in college or university for people that are so inclined. So I think this bit is in many places getting to be a part of the systems in most companies. I've seen that happen now, which is a good sign. But it doesn't end there, there are a lot of other things to do. This was the Principle 7 in the list of 17. Now comes Principle 8, and this is so difficult to look at. He says "he's a coach and a counsel, not a judge." You judge people, they shut up.   0:23:15.4 Balaji Reddie: So he says coach and counsel. When they need help, guide them, show them the path. Sometimes maybe you need some help in doing that, well, go ahead. So that was principle number eight. Principle number nine says "he understands a stable system. He understands the interaction between people and the circumstances that they work in. He understands that the performance of anyone that can learn a skill will come to a stable state." Now, this is amazing. He said this way back in the 1950s when he was in Japan teaching them the control chart, where he took one example where he says that further training to the worker and the process was still in control. And he says, "I think he's reached the limit of his learning. He perhaps needs to be taken to another process or maybe given something more challenging so that we can develop the learning process."   0:24:17.6 Balaji Reddie: So he was speaking about this way back in the 1950s, which today you can say comes under understanding psychology through variation. And he says, upon which furthest the lessons will not bring improvement of performance, and a manager of people knows that in this stable state, it is distracting to tell the worker about a mistake, because he says you'll actually then demotivate someone. So these three principles...   0:24:44.1 Andrew Stotz: Because a mistake may be just normal variation, or are you saying... Okay. Yep. Okay.   0:24:51.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. I mean, it could be anything, right? But if you are highlighting that when he's already reached a stable state, it could just work in a detrimental way, the opposite direction.   0:25:05.4 Andrew Stotz: Ultimately you've reached your goal. A steady state is fantastic.   0:25:07.4 Balaji Reddie: A steady state. And then now you say if you want him to... Anything better here, I think you need to move him out from there, since maybe he needs to be given something either more challenging or whatever it is. But use of psychology and variation together. If people are saying that he spoke about this in the 1990s, he actually spoke about this in the 1950s in Japan. And I have proof. If you go and check Elementary Principles of the Statistical Control of Quality, the series of lectures that he gave in Japan, you will see this in one of the chapters, very clearly stating what needs to be done.   0:25:47.9 Balaji Reddie: Now we come to the next principle, which is... I don't know how to explain this, but it's amazing. He says that "the leader has three sources of power: authority of office, knowledge, and personality and persuasive power, tact." So authority, that's your title, knowledge, and personality. Now, personality, persuasive power, and tact is more of a personal thing. It is something that is an attribute. Authority is the title you're given. I think the only thing that you can really work on is your knowledge. And he says that a successful manager of people develops knowledge and personality and persuasive power, does not rely on authority of office. He nevertheless has obligation to use his authority, a source of power, for him to bring changes. He says that maybe some drastic changes to equipment, to materials, to methods, and to reduce variation.   0:26:55.0 Balaji Reddie: So he attributes this to a gentleman, Dr. Robert Klekamp, or Klekamp, I don't know how to pronounce that. So he says, "He in authority, but lacking knowledge or personality, must depend on his formal power. He unconsciously fills a void in his qualifications by making it clear to everybody that he's in position of authority, his will be done." So I think he said if things needed to be done and if he's being guided the right way, then he has to bring his authority into power. I think this brings me to one of the interactions he had with... Was it James McDonald at Ford? When he made him stand up and asked him, "What is your job?" And he said, "I'm vice president, manufacturing," and he sat down. Deming said, "Stand up. That's your title, not your job." And then for the next half an hour, he grilled him on what his job was. And after half an hour, he still didn't get an answer. He said, "You don't know what your job is. Do you think other people in the company know what their jobs are? I think you're running a mess here."   0:28:02.2 Balaji Reddie: So Jim McDonald, instead of feeling insulted, took it in a very different way. Though he said, "I did feel that I wanted to resign and just walk out of there," but he said, "I knew this man was onto something." And that kind of thing of authority of office, I think he did not like if people used it for the wrong reason, but he wanted them to develop knowledge, personality. Personality, well, I think again, on the soft side, persuasive power tact. Not all of us have that, but I think we are living in a knowledge economy, so knowledge would be the key here. And he also says that if you're in a position of authority, use this to get the right work done.   0:28:47.3 Balaji Reddie: Then next he says "he will study the results with the aim to improve his performance as a manager of people." So when the system is not getting what it's supposed to do, then he does not put the blame on the people. He says, "I have... I may be going wrong somewhere." I'd like to share an example of my father in Japan. My father was in Japan in 1964, I said this last time. And he was on this Asian Overseas Technical Scholarship, AOTS. And they run these courses even today. They have three-month, six-month, nine-month, and one-year courses. And from what I remember my father telling me, it's integrated in the sense, I think he was there for six months. So during the morning sessions, they used to have classroom training, sitting in a classroom. And in the afternoon, post-lunch, they would go and work in a company, and that was like their intern. And so it was a combination of theory and practice taking place almost every day.   0:30:02.4 Balaji Reddie: Now, what happened there was on the first day... And that's where he started working with Showa Electric, and said they were called the interns. So on the first day, he was taken to the company and was introduced to his supervisor. The supervisor took him on the shop floor and introduced him to the team that he would be working with. And then, while he was leaving, that supervisor said, "I just need to tell you this, that we also form what is called as a quality circle." And this was... The quality circle movement started in 1962, so '64, the quality circle. And so my father said, "I don't know what you're talking about." And he said, "Well, this is something new. So would you like to be a part of it?" Because quality circle is voluntary, not mandatory. They make you a part of the quality, so if you want to be a part of the quality circle. It's not imposed on you.   0:31:05.0 Balaji Reddie: So my father said, "I need to talk to my teacher, my sensei, at the class." He said, "Yeah. You can talk to him." So he went back to the class the next day in the morning, he asked the teacher, the sensei, that this is what they said. He said, "Oh, it's a very good system. You can become a member of the quality circle." So on the second day, he said, "Yes, I'll be a member of the quality circle." "Great," he said. Now, on the third day, his actual work started. Now, they used to make television screens, CRO, et cetera. And one of the steps there was soldering. They had to solder. And the soldering was the dip soldering. You had to take the printed circuit board and dip it into the solder bath and take it out. Of course you were to... There was a technique.   0:31:52.8 Balaji Reddie: And so his job was that. His first job that he was assigned is to do soldering on these PCBs. And so the supervisor himself sat with my father and demonstrated 10 to 15 times how to do it. Then he told my father, "Now you do it." And then he was guiding him, and he made him make around 10 pieces until he said, "Okay. Now you're getting it right." Okay. Now he said the ground rules. If by any chance you press it down too hard or you keep it too long because of the extreme heat, there will be a superficial crack on the PCB. And that would not be something that affects the customer right away, but over a period of time, it can result in the board cracking and the radio not working. So when you see a superficial crack, you're supposed to pull the cord. There was a cord there. And when you pull the cord, the supervisor will come and help you. Fine.   0:32:56.1 Balaji Reddie: Now my father started doing his work, and his fifth or sixth piece developed a crack. Now, he said, I don't want to sound derogatory, but the Indian in me caught up. Should I report this? What would he think? I hardly left this man alone, and his fifth piece is a rejected piece. And he said, I did not want to pull that cord. But then... He said that, he told me, "Please pull the cord," I decided, let me go ahead and pull it. So when he pulled the cord, a red lamp went on there, and there's a big siren that went on. And the supervisor came running and turned off the siren and turned off that lamp and said, "What happened?" My father showed him the crack. So he said, "Okay, no problem." He put it aside. He demonstrated to my father 10 times again how to do it. And then he made him do it 10 times till he said, "Ah, see, you did this." And he got it right. Now he said, "Let's continue production."   0:33:58.8 Balaji Reddie: Now they went away and now my father got it right. After an hour or so, or maybe two hours, they had their tea break. And they were sitting around a table. Now, this was the quality circle. So the supervisor got up and started speaking in Japanese. Now, this was my father's third day there, so obviously he did not understand what was going on. The only thing he knew that they were referring to him because they could not pronounce his name properly. So instead of Reddie, he was being called Leddie. So Leddie-san, Leddie-san, Leddie-san. So my father said, "I knew he was talking about me." And he said, "I felt so ashamed, I was looking down at my cup of tea rather than looking up." And then when I looked up, he said, all of them were looking at him in admiration and the thumbs up sign. And he was wondering what the hell just happened.   0:34:51.0 Balaji Reddie: And at the end of it, when that supervisor stopped speaking, they all clapped. They clapped. And as they dispersed, each one came and held his hand and they went away. And now my father told the supervisor, "What did you tell them? Did you tell them I made a mistake?" He says, "Yes, yes, I did tell them that." He said, "Then why are they complimenting me? Why are they... Why did they clap? Why did they clap for me? Why are they shaking my hands?" He says, "They're shaking your hand, they're clapping, and they're complimenting because you pulled the cord." So he said, "What do you mean?" He says, "Well, we have a saying here, here in Japan, if after explaining to a person 10 times how to do something, if the person still makes a mistake, then there's something wrong in the way I explained it." So this bit over here is he will study results with the aim to improve his performance as a manager. Don't blame the other guy. What am I doing wrong?   0:35:54.0 Andrew Stotz: You hired him, you train him.   0:35:56.4 Balaji Reddie: Yep. So when Jack Welch used to say, "Sack the bottom 10% of the people every year," and he called them dead wood, well, I would say when you hired them, they weren't dead. You killed them. So that was principle number 11. Now principle number 12 is where he combined both variation and psychology together. He said "he will try to discover who, if anybody, is outside the system, in need of special help." So he draws a normal curve. I'll pass on this document to you so you could share it along with the podcast. And he says here that people belong to the system. These are people who need not be ranked. But a person outside the system on the lower side needs special help. People outside the system on the higher side, well, we need to take the system to that level to improve the system.   0:37:08.4 Balaji Reddie: So he talks about that. He says this can be accomplished with some simple calculations. If there be an individual with figures on production or on failures, special help may be only simple rearrangement of work. It might be more complicated. He in need of special help is not in the bottom 5%. He's clean outside that distribution. So he's trying to use the understanding of variation in a very different sense to understanding people. And he says that we try to reduce that variation in performance between people. That's the job of the system. So this is principle 11 and 12.   0:37:51.0 Balaji Reddie: Now you come to principle 13: "he creates trust." And that creates trust, I would believe, it's a two-way process. And he creates an environment that encourages freedom and innovation. That is the environment where people are unafraid to make mistakes. Because we learned that theory is not the opposite of practice; it's a guide to better practice. And we need all of us working together. And that trust, I think, has got a very funny meaning in my country. I keep joking about this. In India, trust is we will lie a little less to each other. But that's not what this is. We need to be straight honest with each other. And honest is you can only do that by example. Like what happened in my case. I remember when we had installed the ERP system in our company, and there are interlocks. And I remember there was a backlogged order. And I knew that because when we did not deliver the order on time, I negotiated with the customer and I got the delivery date postponed.   0:39:08.0 Balaji Reddie: Now I was trying to test the ERP that month. So I said, let me see if the ERP can capture this because it should show it as a backlogged order. But it showed it as an order that was to be delivered on the new adjusted date. And I said, "How did that happen?" Because that should not have changed. And so I called my assistant. I said, "This should be in backlog. Why is it showing me as a spillover order?" And he said, "No, I changed the date." I said, "Why did you do that?" And he said, "No, because the finance guy will get angry with me." And I said, "That is my problem." I said, "When I told you you're not supposed to change that date..." And I removed his administrative powers in changing the date so that he could not change the date in the system.   0:40:01.7 Balaji Reddie: I removed his powers. And he apologized profusely and said, "Please let me." I said, "No." So till the day I resigned, I kept it. I said, "You're not gonna be doing this because it's not a question..." I said... If I had succumbed to that Andrew, they would have lost my trust. They would have thought that, "Oh, Balaji just talks. He doesn't walk the talk." I said, "No, you're not supposed to do this. We are trying to go by a system. Let's go by the system." So I think you can only create trust through example, through demonstration, if I may say so, and especially under adverse circumstances that you need to demonstrate this.   0:40:46.1 Balaji Reddie: Principle number 14: he says "he does not expect perfection." I think that even he said it in principle of variation. Principle 15: he says "he listens and learns without passing judgment on him that he listens to." This is an extension of the previous points. Principle number 16: he will hold an informal, unhurried conversation with every one of his people at least once a year, not for judgment, merely to listen. The purpose would be development of understanding of his people, their aims, their hopes, and their fears. This meeting will be spontaneous and not planned ahead. So there should be no bias, like an audit.   0:41:41.5 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:41:42.2 Balaji Reddie: And lastly, principle number 17: "he understands the benefits of cooperation and the losses from competition between people and between groups." So these were the 17 principles of leadership, the beginning of transformation. I think there can be nothing more to do than this. He was so clear in what he wanted us to do. I wonder why people say that there was no method.   0:42:16.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. He definitely outlined a lot of stuff there. One of the questions I had for you on that list is, what do you say to people that say that he's kind of a dreamer? The idea that you can sit down with your employees and have this time and everybody's so busy and just talk about your fears and your goals and all that stuff where we live in this age of, we've gotta get the result, we've gotta be focused. How do you respond to that?   0:42:51.1 Balaji Reddie: Well, I say give this a try. All right? You've done it your way, right? You've done it... Let's just forget about it, and you're seeing what's happening. You want a change, you gotta do something different. So why don't you go by what this man is saying? And if you say that, you know, a dreamer or whatever, well, I'd like to quote John Lennon here: "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."   0:43:16.8 Andrew Stotz: Yep. Yep. Yep. And what do you say for people that feel that you gotta have these targets and goals and KPIs to get the most out of people? And when we think about what Deming's talking about, we're talking about this intrinsic motivation. But it's scary for people to think. It's a lot more comfortable to have these goals and structures than what you could argue is a little bit more unstructured. And how do we balance that? And obviously Deming wasn't saying don't have goals.   0:44:02.1 Balaji Reddie: Yeah, yeah. I think Henry addresses this very well in his 12-day course where he has a specific section on goals, et cetera. And he talks about how Deming said that there are some things called facts of life. Facts of life is, okay, we need to turn out, we need to generate so much of revenue this year because we need to pay for all our salaries and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then we need to have some money for the future. So we need to make so much of money this year. Now that's not a goal, that's a fact of life. But when you are bringing that number out and showing that to everyone, please also indicate to them how we intend to achieve that. Don't just leave it to them and say we need to do this.   0:44:54.4 Balaji Reddie: Okay. I'll give an example here. I don't want to sound... It may sound a little self-serving, but okay, take it in the right spirit. I remember when we had our first strategic meeting at my company, and my boss... Okay, was... He said... I think 20 of us sitting in the room and he said, "Last year, our target was 30 million and we're getting there and we're doing a great job. So this year we're gonna aim for 45 million." Now when he said that, I just put my hand up and he said, "Yes." So I said, "Why 45 million?" And he just stared me down and he looked up at everyone and said, "That's it. Meeting dismissed." He just walked out. These are those days when you had... You know the OHP? You know the overhead transparencies, the projector?   0:45:56.9 Andrew Stotz: Oh, yeah. Overhead transparencies, yep.   0:45:58.8 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. So he had the transparencies, and he just took them and walked out. And all the guys came to me, "Are you mad? You're questioning the owner of the company? Are you nuts?" And I was thinking, "God, what did I say wrong?" And then we started going back to our cabins, and when I sat down at my desk, the phone rang, and it was boss. And he just uttered one word, "Come." So when I was walking towards his cabin, I was thinking to myself, "Nice company, nice friends." And then I knocked on the door, and he said, "Yeah, yeah. Come in." He said, "Sit down." And then he said, "Shut the door." He said, "What the hell were you trying to do today? Are you trying to mock me?" I said, "Please, why would I want to mock you, boss? I wouldn't want to mock you. I just wanted to know why 45 million."   0:46:52.9 Balaji Reddie: He says, "All right." And so he took out what is called the blue book, where we have the yearbook, what happened in our country in the last one year. We have these books that get written, right? So he said, "Look, this is growth in our country in industry. This is our... Sector that we are in, and we are in the organized sector in this industry. And the year-on-year growth for the last five years has been this, and this year the expected growth is so much. And can I expect at least 3 or 4% of that growth?" I said, "Of course, why not?" He said, "That, son, is 45 million." So I said, "Why didn't you tell me this? That's all I wanted to know." He said, "You think these asses..." He was referring to my other colleagues... "Would understand?" I said, "Boss, if I can understand, they can understand. It's one and the same." "Okay. Let's meet tomorrow."   0:47:52.1 Balaji Reddie: So the next day we met again. And he said, "Yesterday, when I uttered 45 million, this genius asked me why, and so I'm gonna tell you why." And he went on to explain. After he finished explaining, my sales guy... Sorry, my marketing guy got up and he said, "I have something to share." "Okay, please come forward." He put the transparency. And he had listed there the top 10 selling items in my company based on revenue, based on profits, and based on quantities. Top 10 for each. There were three products that were common to all the three. So obviously he was sending a message to us, that we had to attain our targets, at least by focusing.   0:48:44.8 Balaji Reddie: The moment he showed that, he underlined these three, the sales guy put his hand up and said, "Yes." "That second product you underlined, our competitor is selling it as a package with another product, but we don't seem to have that on our list." So the R&D guy got up and said, "Could you tell me what the part number..." And he says, "It's part number so-and-so." He said, "Hang on, I've already developed that." You know what was happening, Andrew? We were talking to each other. And that meeting went on for three and a half hours. And at the end of the three and a half hours, all of us knew how to attain 45 million.   0:49:23.8 Andrew Stotz: I thought you were gonna ask a question on the second day, "Hey, boss, so 45 million, why is there no market share gain of our business that we're growing faster than the industry?"   [laughter]   0:49:41.4 Balaji Reddie: So anyway, but this was... This is what I think goals should be transparent in this sense, that why are we giving you this number? And more importantly is the discussion that happens is how are we gonna do this? It just doesn't happen by itself, right? And if you leave it to people, they start distorting numbers, right?   0:50:03.8 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:50:04.2 Balaji Reddie: As Brian Joiner said, "Distort the data, distort the system, or distort both."   0:50:12.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And we're working on a growth plan for my coffee business.   0:50:19.0 Balaji Reddie: A growth.   0:50:19.6 Andrew Stotz: And really what it comes down to is three things. Number one, are we as the owners gonna hire more salespeople? Because salespeople bring in revenue.   0:50:36.3 Balaji Reddie: Right.   0:50:37.0 Andrew Stotz: Number two, are we as the owners going to develop together with the rest of the team a higher value-added offering...   0:50:50.6 Balaji Reddie: Wow.   0:50:50.8 Andrew Stotz: That we can bring more value than what we're bringing right now, which would bring potential customers to us and allow us to sell more easily. Or are we as the owners going to buy another company?   0:51:07.8 Balaji Reddie: Oh, okay.   0:51:09.2 Andrew Stotz: So those are the three things. And Dale and I have been discussing each one of those in a lot of detail, testing out and debating and discussing. But those are the type that... When it comes to growth, that's just... We know the growth we can produce with no change. And that's in line with the inflation rate or whatever the economic growth, for sure. But as long as we don't lose people on our team or something like that. But to go to our team and say, "How are we gonna grow faster?" Well, that whole point is we can see. Also the other thing is that we can see bigger about the industry sometimes. Sometimes they see something at a small level that they bring back to us and think, "Whoa, wait a minute, that's something valuable." And yeah, so we're getting ready for our final decisions on where we're gonna go with that. But yeah, without that type of change, we're not gonna reach the type of growth that we want to get. And really our idea is 5x growth in five years.   0:52:19.9 Balaji Reddie: Okay.   0:52:20.5 Andrew Stotz: And in order to do that, we have to have a completely different level of quality, service, product, thinking. And so, yeah, it's fun... It's challenging. Anyways...   0:52:32.9 Balaji Reddie: Right.   0:52:33.2 Andrew Stotz: So how do we wrap this up? What is it you want people to take away? You've shared a lot of different stuff. What would you like them to take away from it?   0:52:42.0 Balaji Reddie: Yeah. One, I'm trying to shatter that myth that Deming did not tell us what was to be done. I think he was very clear and we need to reread and reread. And we have to take these as guidelines. You may come up with your own method, but see these as a guideline by and large to put you on the right path. And once you do that, you may develop something which works for you, and that's what he wanted. But let us not just say that he only philosophized about things. I think he was very clear in his head. He just wanted us to do things our own way because nobody understood our problems better than we ourselves. And he was just showing us how to understand things around.   0:53:32.6 Balaji Reddie: He wanted us to know, to understand what we do not know. Through these principles, we can address some of the gaps. Perhaps we were getting a few things wrong. So point number 14, take action to accomplish the transformation. I think it begins with leadership. So point number seven comes into the picture. It begins with training and education. Point number six comes into the picture and it also brings in point number 13, which is learning and development. And education and training is different from learning and development. Training can be very company specific and you can measure the outcomes of training, but you cannot measure the outcomes of development because that takes time.   0:54:19.8 Balaji Reddie: So you need to have some things going in your favor. And for that you need to choose, and he told us how to do that. And yes, he wanted top management to be a part of this because he said those in authority need to do this. But that one sentence that middle management can commence, it can commence there, is a telling statement. So he knew it was possible.   0:54:45.0 Andrew Stotz: That's great. And I like that. Commence. That there's... It's not necessarily gonna be completed by middle management, but middle management can start right now, right where you are. So that's a great way, that's a great way to end with the start. So, Balaji, I want to thank you on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute. And it's an interesting discussion and I'm enjoying it very much. And for listeners out there, remember to go to deming.org and also there, jump on DemingNEXT to continue your journey. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and that is: "People are entitled to joy in work."   0:55:32.1 Balaji Reddie: Oh, yeah. Andrew, I think saying thank you on behalf of the institute, I am also a part of the institute.   0:55:38.5 Andrew Stotz: Of course. Of course. You are. I appreciate it. Okay.

1. Our Former Slavery to Elementary Principles (1-3) 2. Our Redemption: Accomplished by the Son (4-5) 3. Our Adoption: Confirmed by the Spirit (6-7)

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Message from Bukunmi Oyebola on January 25, 2025

In today's episode of Theories of Everything, Curt Jaimungal and Julian Barbour challenge conventional physics by exploring Barbour's revolutionary ideas on time as an emergent property of change, the universe's increasing order contrary to entropy, and the foundational nature of shape dynamics. SPONSOR (THE ECONOMIST): As a listener of TOE you can get a special 20% off discount to The Economist and all it has to offer! Visit https://www.economist.com/toe TOE'S TOP LINKS: - Support TOE on Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!) - Enjoy TOE on Spotify! https://tinyurl.com/SpotifyTOE - Become a YouTube Member Here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdWIQh9DGG6uhJk8eyIFl1w/join - Join TOE's Newsletter 'TOEmail' at https://www.curtjaimungal.org LINKED MENTIONED: - The Janus Point (Julian Barbour's book): https://www.amazon.com/Janus-Point-New-Theory-Time/dp/0465095461 - ‘Relational Concepts of Space and Time' (Julian Barbour's 1982 paper): https://www.jstor.org/stable/687224 - ‘The Theory of Gravitation' (Paul Dirac's 1958 paper): https://www.jstor.org/stable/100497 - Carlo Rovelli on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF4SAketEHY - ‘On the Nature of Things' (book): https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674992009 - Leibniz: Philosophical Writings (book): https://www.amazon.com/Leibniz-Philosophical-Writings-Everymans-University/dp/0460119052 - Elementary Principles of Statistical Mechanics (book): https://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Principles-Statistical-Mechanics-Physics/dp/0486789950 - The interpretations of quantum mechanics in 5 minutes (article): https://curtjaimungal.substack.com/p/the-interpretations-of-quantum-mechanics - Sean Carroll on TOE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AoRxtYZrZo Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 02:12 - Working Outside of Academia 03:53 - Space, Time, Dimension 10:40 - Mach's Principle 21:33 - Mach Confused Einstein 24:22 - Two Particle Universe 31:46 - Carlo Rovelli 35:02 - Julian's Ontology 43:37 - Julian's Theory ‘Shape Statistics' 51:11 - Leinbiz's Philosophical Writings 56:14 - Expansion of the Universe (Scale Invariance) 01:05:02 - Cosmological Principle 01:15:34 - Thermodynamics 01:17:15 - Entropy and Complexity 01:30:40 - Wave Function / Double Slit Experiment 01:39:21 - God 01:44:48 - The Role of Instruments 01:47:44 - Etymology of Pattern and Matter 01:51:25 - Join My Substack! Other Links: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt - Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs - iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802 - Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything #science #sciencepodcast #physics #theoreticalphysics #time #space #dimensions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Key Points:Operant Conditioning and Behavior:Explore the basics of operant conditioning and its relevance to management.Discussion of Jeremy Bentham's Panopticon and its implications for behavior management.The role of observation in influencing behavior.Distinction between direct and indirect acting contingencies.Interview with Dr. Dick Malott:Background and work of Dr. Malott in behavior analysis.Consistency of operant conditioning principles across different groups (rats, students, managers, children with autism).Explanation of behavioral contingencies and categories (unlearned/learned rewards and aversive conditions).The importance of rule-governed behavior and rules that are easy to follow.Behavioral Management in Organizations:Effective implementation of behavior management strategies in the workplace.Importance of easy-to-follow rules with immediate, significant, and likely outcomes.Examples of effective performance management in educational and organizational settings.Challenges in implementing and maintaining behavior management systems.Practical Takeaways:Reflect on feedback mechanisms in your workplace.Redesign processes to make rules clearer and feedback more immediate.Relevant Articles:Greer, C. R., Lusch, R. F., & Hitt, M. A. (2017). "A Service Perspective for Human Capital Resources: A Critical Base for Strategy Implementation," Academy of Management Perspectives, 31: 137-158.Podsakoff, P. M., Bommer, W. H., Podsakoff, N. P., & MacKenzie, S. B. (2006). "Relationships Between Leader Reward Behavior and Punishment Behavior and Subordinate Attitudes, Perceptions, and Behaviors: A Meta-Analytic Review of Existing and New Research," Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 99: 113-142.Trevino, L. K. (1992). "The Social Effects of Punishment in Organizations: A Justice Perspective," Academy of Management Review, 17: 647-676.Molenmaker, W. E., Kwaadsteniet, E. W., & van Dyjk, E. (2016). "The Impact of Personal Responsibility on the (Un)Willingness to Punish Non-Cooperation and Reward Cooperation," Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 134: 1-15.Podsakoff, P. M., & Mackenzie, S. B. (1997). "Impact of Organizational Citizenship Behavior on Organizational Performance: A Review and Suggestions for Future Research," Human Performance, 10(2): 133-151.Link to Dr. Dick Malott's Book:Principles of BehaviorNext Episode Teaser:Stay tuned for our next episode, where we explore blame and punishment in the context of organizational learning. In the meantime, keep learning, keep growing, and keep adding to your management theory toolbox!Dr. Richard Malott [Guest], with more than 40 years of experience at Western Michigan University, has used the principles of behavior to construct teaching models and behavioral systems that have been sustained over several decades. As a result, he has taught generations of students to use behavior analysis in their everyday lives as learners, teachers, practitioners, and citizens, and has provided the training grounds for many of the field's leaders in behavioral systems design. Richard Malott is a prolific, creative, and engaging writer who has authored some of the field's most important and widely read publications, including Elementary Principles of Behavior (first with Donald Whaley and then with Maria E. Malott and Elizabeth Trojan Suarez), which is in its eight ed

Today our series will discuss the need to grow to become a mature Believer.Questions: 1. What is meant by the phrase, "you have come to need milk, not solid food"?2. How are our spiritual senses exercised?3. What are the "Elementary Principles of Christ?4.What is "Faith that Works"?

Today our series will discuss the need to grow to become a mature Believer.Questions: 1. What is meant by the phrase, "you have come to need milk, not solid food"?2. How are our spiritual senses exercised?3. What are the "Elementary Principles of Christ?4.What is "Faith that Works"?

Jeff, Matt, Brian, Jon, David, and Paul discuss Louis Martyn's depiction of the Galatian heresy as captivity to the elementary principles as this can be equated with Douglas Campbell's picture of the false teacher, and how conversion pertains to mind transformation through deliverance from this cosmos through Christ as fundamental reason. Become a Patron! If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to support our work.

Duane Sheriff teaches that to mature spiritually, we must apply six elementary principles that lay a foundation. One of these principles is repentance from dead works. Repentance means to change your mind and change your direction. Some examples of dead works include self-righteousness, sins of our flesh, and religious works.

In this message we look the doctrine of laying on of hands. This is something far more than just a symbolic show, but the impartation of the power of God for the commission of the work of the ministry! Support the show

In this message we look at what the Bible says about the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement. Is there a resurrection and eternal judgement of the unbeliever?Let's find out! Support the show

In this message we look at the resurrection of the believers and the how we will stand before the judgement seat of Christ and give an account to God! Support the show

Have you ever wondered why Jesus had to be baptized?In this message we look at John's baptism, the Christian baptism and we answer the question of why did Jesus have to be baptized! Support the show

Support the show

Join Gabe Rutledge and the rest of DMF as we study the sixth and final elementary principle of our faith: eternal judgment. For more information on Dothan Messianic Fellowship, visit www.dothanmessianicfellowship.com 

Join Jonathan Wriston and the rest of DMF as we look at the fifth elementary principle of our faith, the laying on of hands. For more information on our congregation, visit www.dothanmessianicfellowship.com 

Join Gabe Rutledge and the rest of DMF as we continue our study through Hebrews chapter 6 and the elementary principles of the faith. Recorded during Sukkot, 2023.  www.dothanmessianicfellowship.com 

Join Gabe and the rest of DMF as we look at Hebrews chapter six and the elementary principle called "resurrection of the dead". www.dothanmessianicfellowship.com 

Join Gabe Rutledge and the rest of DMF as we study through Hebrews chapter 6 and the "elementary principles of the faith". For more information on Dothan Messianic Fellowship, visit www.dothanmessianicfellowship.com   

Join Gabe Rutledge and the rest of DMF as we study through Hebrews 6 and the Elementary Principles of the Biblical, Christian faith. 

In this message we will begin to take a look at the only baptism that saves. Many in the church are confused about this, so let's dig in and see what we can find out!Support the show

In this message we continue going deeper into to the scriptures analyzing the only one of three baptisms in the New Testament that saves us!Support the show

In this message we look at what the bible says repentance from dead works and faith toward God is!Support the show

In this series we will begin to examine what the bible calls the elementary principles of Christ, but first we are going to look spiritual regression. What is spiritual regression and how does it happen? Let's find out!Support the show

A verse-by-verse study through the Letter of Hebrews. A ministry of FBC Tipp City. Part of our verse-by-verse study of God's Word. Reggie Osborne: Pastor/Teacher. regosborne1@gmail.com 

In this series we will examine what the Bible calls the elementary principles of Christ. First place we are going to look is at spiritual regression, is it possible and if it is how does it happen?Support the show

Paul's admonition today in Galatians is to stop worshiping false gods (or “elementary principles of the world”). In our current mindset, it may be easy to think, “Of course we shouldn't worship false gods.” All too often, however, we easily fall into the trap of doing so. False gods (or elementary principles) do not just include pagan rituals or Norse mythology; false gods include anything we focus on that leads us away from Jesus and the truth of the Gospel. WATCH FULL SERVICE ON YOUTUBE DOWNLOAD PDF SERMON NOTES HERE

In this episode, published on March 9, 2023, Pastor Ethan Callison and Susie Harris journey through Galatians 4. Link to reading plan: https://fcclife.org/podcast-reading-plan.

256. Elementary Principles Review - Introducing The Gospel, Pre/Post Baptism by David Grams

What a fun interview today!  Matt McKeown is the Associate Pastor at the United Brethren in Christ Church (UBIC) in Holly Hill Florida and the Manager of Sound Mind Studios. His music is featured in televised sports games and events for the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, and F1 racing. He also has worked in ADR for programs like Hawaii Five 0, Law and Order SVU, and The Man in the High Castle.In ministry Matt has served on his denomination's Youth Leadership Team and National Human Sexuality Task Force. Matt has a passion for studying Messianic Judaism and as a Christian Pastor lives a Messianic lifestyle; willingly attending his local Messianic Synagogue, studying at Yeshivat Shuvu, eating Kosher and teaching from a Messianic Jewish perspective. He has also taught on tours in the Holy Land and has provided music for the Bless Israel Network. Matt has done voice over work for FFOZ on their television show and is the voice of Torah Kids audio lessons and their books ‘Tent of David' and ‘Elementary Principles'. He is currently recording the audio version of the Complete Jewish Bible by David H. Stern.The call on Pastor Matt's life is an interesting one. The Lord is using him to be a bridge between the Christian world and the Jewish world. It is his desire to see Jewish people recognize Yeshua (Jesus) as the Jewish Messiah and for Christians to recognize the Jewish foundation of their faith.Matt, his wife Kara and their three teenage children live in the Daytona Beach area of Florida and in addition to serving at UBIC attend Beth Judah Messianic Synagogue in Ormond Beach.

In this Series, we study the Foundational Doctrines of Christ. By hearing and doing the teaching of Christ, we build our lives on the ROCK - Christ Himself, the only true and firm foundation (Matthew 7:24-27, 16:18, Isaiah 28:16, 1Corinthians 3:11). Hebrews 5:12- 6:3 define the 7 key Foundational Doctrines of Christ, the Elementary Principles of God, the Milk of the Word, that we need to master before going on to the solid food. This is how our lives are to be built on the Foundation Rock – the Person of Christ. The FOUNDATION of JESUS CHRIST is laid in our lives by the GOSPEL, which reveals who He is, and His love for us, demonstrated by what He did for us in His death and resurrection: “No other FOUNDATION can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST” (1Corinthians 3:11). When we believe the Gospel and receive Christ, the foundation (Christ) is laid (established) in us. Thus, the GOSPEL is the central, entry-level foundational Message of the Bible: “the Gospel of Christ is the Power of God unto Salvation for everyone who believes” (Romans 1:16). In this video, Pastor Derek shares the Gospel and explains how you can personally receive Jesus Christ and His free gift of forgiveness and eternal life. The video ends with a prayer you can pray to receive Christ as your Lord and Saviour. If you need to make sure that you are saved, and will go to Heaven when you die, then please pray this prayer with Pastor Derek, saying it from your heart to God, and you will be saved, for: “ALL who CALL on the Name of the Lord (Jesus) shall be SAVED” (Romans 10:13).

In this Series, we study the Foundational Doctrines of Christ. By hearing and doing the teaching of Christ, we build our lives on the ROCK - Christ Himself, the only true and firm foundation (Matthew 7:24-27, 16:18, Isaiah 28:16, 1Corinthians 3:11). Hebrews 5:12- 6:3 define the 7 key Foundational Doctrines of Christ, the Elementary Principles of God, the Milk of the Word, that we need to master before going on to the solid food. This is how our lives are to be built on the Foundation Rock – the Person of Christ. The FOUNDATION of JESUS CHRIST is laid in our lives by the GOSPEL, which reveals who He is, and His love for us, demonstrated by what He did for us in His death and resurrection: “No other FOUNDATION can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is JESUS CHRIST” (1Corinthians 3:11). When we believe the Gospel and receive Christ, the foundation (Christ) is laid (established) in us. Thus, the GOSPEL is the central, entry-level foundational Message of the Bible: “the Gospel of Christ is the Power of God unto Salvation for everyone who believes” (Romans 1:16). In this video, Pastor Derek shares the Gospel and explains how you can personally receive Jesus Christ and His free gift of forgiveness and eternal life. The video ends with a prayer you can pray to receive Christ as your Lord and Saviour. If you need to make sure that you are saved, and will go to Heaven when you die, then please pray this prayer with Pastor Derek, saying it from your heart to God, and you will be saved, for: “ALL who CALL on the Name of the Lord (Jesus) shall be SAVED” (Romans 10:13).

243. The Law of Christ VS The Law of Moses - Elementary Principles by David Grams

242. Resurrection Of The Dead - Elementary Principles by David Grams

a study of Galatians 3-4