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James: Hey listeners, this is James Kandasamy. Welcome to Achieve Wealth Podcast. Achieve Wealth Podcast focuses on value at real estate investing across different commercial asset class and we focus on interviewing a lot of operators so that you know, I can learn and you can learn as well. So today I have Omar Khan who has been on many podcasts but I would like to go into a lot more details into is underwriting and market analysis that he has. So Omar is a CFA, has more than 10 years investing across real estate and commodities. He has experience in the MNA transaction worth 3.7 billion, Syndicated Lodge a multi-million deal across the U.S. and he recently closed a hundred thirty plus something units in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey Omar, welcome to the show.  Omar: Hey, thank you James. I'm just trying to work hard to get to your level man. One of these days.  James: That's good. That's a compliment. Thank you Omar. So why not you tell our audience anything that I would have missed out about you and your credibility. Omar: I think you did a good job. If I open my mouth my credibility might go down.  James: Yes, that's good. That's good. So let's go a bit more details. So you live in Dallas, right? I think you're, I mean if I've listened to you on other podcasts and we have talked before the show you came from Canada to Dallas and you bought I think you have been looking for deals for some time right now. And you recently bought in Jacksonville. Can you tell about the whole flow in a quick summary?  Omar: Oh, yes. Well the quick summary is man that you know, when you're competing against people who's operating strategy is a hope and a prayer, you have to look [inaudible01:54] Right?  James: Absolutely.  Omar: I mean, and hey just to give you a full disclosure yesterday there was actually a smaller deal in Dallas. It's about a hundred and twenty something units. And I mean we were coming in at 10-point some million dollars. And just to get into best and final people were paying a million dollars more than that, and I'm not talking just a million dollars more than I was trying to be cheap. The point was, at a million dollar more than that there is freaking no way you could hit your numbers, like mid teens that are already 10% cash-on-cash. Like literally, they would have to find a gold mine right underneath their apartment. So my point is it's kind of hard man. But what are you going to do about it? Right?  James: Yes. Yes. Omar: Just have to keep looking. You have to keep finding. You have to keep being respectful of Brokers' times. Get back to them. You just keep doing the stuff. I mean you would do it every day pretty much.  James: Yes. Yes. I just think that there's so much capital flow out there. They are a lot of people who expect less, lower less return. Like you say you are expecting mid teen IRR, there could be someone there out there expecting 10 percent IRR and they could be the one who's paying that $1,000,000. Right? And maybe the underwriting is completely wrong, right? Compared to-- I wouldn't say underwriting is wrong. I mean, I think a lot of people-- Omar: Well you can say that James you don't have to be a nice person. You can say it.  James: I'm just saying that everybody thinks, I mean they absolutely they could be underwriting wrong, too or they may be going over aggressively on the rent growth assumption or property tax growth assumption compared to what you have. At the same time they could have a much lower expectation on-- Omar: Yes. I mean let's hope that's the case because if they have a higher expectation man, they're going to crash and burn. James: Absolutely. Omar: I hope, I really hope they have a low expectation.  James: Yes. Yes. I did look at a chart recently from Marcus and Millichap the for Texas City where they show us how that's like a San Antonio, Austin, Dallas and Houston and if you look at Dallas, you know, the amount of acceleration in terms of growth is huge, right? And then suddenly it's coming down. I mean all markets are coming down slightly right now, but I'm just hopefully, you know, you can see that growth to continue in all this strong market. Omar: No, no, don't get me wrong, when I said somebody paid more than 1 million just to get into best and final, that has no merits on, that is not a comment on the state of the Dallas Market. I personally feel Dallas is a fantastic Market. Texas overall, all the big four cities that you mentioned are fantastic but my point is there is nothing, no asset in the world that is so great that you can pay an infinite price for it. And there's nothing so bad in the world that if it wasn't for a cheap enough price, you wouldn't want to buy it. James: Correct, correct.  Omar: I mean that that's what I meant. I didn't mean it was a comment on the state of the market.  James: Got it. Got it. So let's come to your search outside of the Texas market, right? So how did you choose, how did you go to Jacksonville?  Omar: Well, number one the deal is I didn't want to go to a smaller city. I'm not one of those guys, you know in search of [inaudible05:11] I find everybody every time somebody tells me I'm looking for a higher cap rate, I was like, why do you like to get shot every time you go to the apartment building? You want to go to the ghetto? Do you want somebody to stab you in the stomach? Is that because that's-- James: That's a lot of deals with a higher cap rate. Omar: Yes. There's a lot because I was like man, I can find you a lot of deals with really high cap rates.  James: Yes. Omar: But you might get stabbed. Right?  James: And they are set class 2 which has higher cap rate.  Omar: Oh, yes, yes, yes.  James: So I think people just do not know what a cap rate means or how-- Omar: Yes and people you know, all these gurus tell you today, I mean let's not even get into that right. So specifically for us like I wanted to stand at least a secondary, tertiary market [inaudible 05:48] I mean like, any City over at least eight, nine hundred thousand at least a million, somewhere in that range, right?  James: Okay. Omar: And specifically look, after Texas it was really Florida. Because look, you could do the whole Atlanta thing. I personally, I love Atlanta but it's a toss-up between Atlanta and say either of the three metros in Florida or Jackson. Lords in Central Florida, Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando. You know based on my [inaudible06:11] experience I was doing this stuff portfolio management anyways, I kind of ran smaller factor model for all the cities where I took in different sort of factors about 30 different factors. And then you know, you kind of just have to do all the site tours and property visits to make all those relationships. And what I see across the board was, I mean Tampa has a great Market, but for the same quality product for the same demographic of tenant, for the same say rent level, Tampa was 20 to 25% more expensive on a per pound basis.  James: Okay. Omar: Let's say a Jacksonville, right? Orlando is kind of in the middle where the good deals were really expensive or rather the good areas were a bit too dear for us and the bad areas were nicely priced and everybody then tells you, "Oh it's Florida." right? James: No, no. Omar: But what they don't tell you is there's good and bad parts of Florida-- James: There's submarket. Yes Yes. Omar: Right? So you got to go submarket by submarket. And then lastly what we were basically seeing in Jacksonville was, it was very much a market which like for instance in Atlanta and seeing parts of say Orlando and Tampa, you can have to go block by block street by street. But if you're on the wrong side of the street, man you are screwed, pretty much. James: Absolutely. Omar: But Jacksonville to a certain degree, obviously not always, was very similar to Dallas in the sense that there is good areas and then there's a gradual shift into a not as a [inaudible07:29] Right? So basically what you kind of had to do was name the submarket properly and if you had a higher chance of success than for instance [inaudible07:38] right down to the street corner, right? And then like I said the deals we were seeing, the numbers just made more sense in Jacksonville for the same level of demographic, for the same type of tenant, for the same income level, for the same vintage, for the same type of construction. So Jacksonville, you know, we started making relationships in all the markets but Jacksonville is where we got the best bang for our buck and that's how we moved in.  James: Okay. So I just want to give some education to the listener. So as what Omar and I were talking about, not the whole city that you are listening to is hot, right. So, for example, you have to really look at the human capital growth in certain parts of the city, right? So for example in Dallas, not everywhere Dallas is the best area to invest. You may have got a deal in Dallas but are you buying in it in a place where there's a lot of growth happening? Right? Like for example, North Dallas is a lot of growth, right? Compared to South Dallas, right? In Atlanta that's I-20 that runs in between Atlanta and there's a difference between, you cross the I-20 is much, you know a lot of price per pound or price per door. It's like a hundred over door and below Atlanta is slightly lower, right? So it's growing, but it may grow it may not grow. I mean right now the market is hot, everything grows. So you can buy anywhere and make money and you can claim that, hey I'm making money, but as I say market is-- Omar: [inaudible09:03] repeatable [inaudible09:04] By the way I look at it, is hey is this strategy repeatable? Can I just rinse and repeat this over and over and over? James: Correct. Correct. I mean it depends on sponsor's cases. While some sponsors will buy because price per dollar is cheap, right? But do they look at the back end of it when the market turns, right? Some sponsors will be very very scared to buy that kind of deal because we always think about, what happens when the market turns, right? So. Omar: Yes, James and the other thing that I've seen is that, look, obviously, we're not buying the most highest quality product. James: Correct. Omar: But what I've seen is a lot of times when people focus on price per unit, say I will go for the cheapest price per unit. Well, there's a reason why it's cheap because you know, there's a reason why Suzuki is cheaper than a Mercedes. Now, I'm not saying you have to go buy a Mercedes because sometimes you only need to buy a Suzuki. Right? I mean that's the way it is, but you got to have to be cognizant that just because something is cheap doesn't mean it's more valuable and just because something is more expensive doesn't mean it's less than.  James: Correct. Correct. Correct. And price per door is one I think one of the most flawed metrics that people are talking about. Price per door and also how many doors do people own? Omar: And also cap rate, man. [inaudible 10:09]  James: Cap rate, price per door and-- Omar: How many doors have you got? James: How many doors do you have? Three metrics is so popular, there is so much marketing happening based on these three metrics. I mean for me you can take it and throw it into the trash paper, right? Omar: The way I look at it is I would much rather have one or two really nice things, as opposed to 10 really crappy things.  James: Correct. Correct. Correct. Like I don't mind buying a deal in Austin for a hundred a door compared to buying a same deal in a strong Market in another-- like for example, North Atlanta, right? I would rather buy it in Austin. It's just different market, right? So. Absolutely different. So price per door, number of doors and cap rate, especially entry cap rate, right? I went back and cap rate you can't really predict, right? So it's a bit hard to really predict all that. But that's-- Omar: Yes but my point is with all of these things you have, and when people tell me cap rate I'm like, look, are you buying stabilized properties? Because that's the only time you can apply this. James: Correct. Correct. Omar: Otherwise, what you really going to have to look at is how much upside do I have because at the end of the day, you know this better than I do. Regardless of what somebody says, what somebody does, everything is valued on [inaudible11:15] James: Correct. Omar: Pretty much. You can say it's a low cap rate and the broker will tell you, well yes the guy down the street bought it for a hundred and fifty thousand a unit so you got to pay me a hundred fifty, right? And then that's the end of the conversation.  James: Yes. Omar: Literally, I mean that is the end of the conversation, right? What are you going to do about it?  James: Yes. Correct. I mean the Brokers they have a fiduciary responsibility to market their product as much as possible, but I think it's our responsibility as Sponsor to really underwrite that deal to make sure that-- Omar: Oh yes. James: --what is the true potential. Omar: And look, to be honest with you sometimes the deal, that is say a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a unit might actually be a better deal-- James: Oh absolutely. Omar: [inaudible 11:51] fifty thousand dollars a unit. I mean, you don't know till you run the numbers. James: Correct. Absolutely. Absolutely. I've seen deals which I know a hundred sixty a door and still have much better deal than something that you know, I can buy for 50 a door, right? So. You have to underwrite all deals. There's no such thing as cap rate or no, such thing as price per door. I mean you can use price per door to a certain level.  Omar: [inaudible 12:15] in this market what is the price per door? That's the extent of what you might potentially say, in the submarket.  James: Correct. Omar: All the comps are trading at 75,000 a door. Why is this at 95 a door?  James: Yes. Omar: That's it.  James: I like to look at price per door divided by net square, rentable square footage because that would neutralize all measurements. Omar: Yes, see, you know we had a little back and forth on this, I was talking to my Analyst on this but my point is that I would understand [inaudible 12:46] at least to my mind. Okay. I'm not, because I know a lot of Brokers use it.  James: Sure. Omar: In my mind that would apply to say, Commercial and Industrial properties more. But any time I've gone to buy or say rent an apartment complex, I never really go and say like, hmm the rent is $800. It's 800 square feet. Hmm on a per square foot basis. I'm getting one dollar and then I go-- James: No, no, no, I'm not talking about that measurement. I'm talking about price per door divided by square footage rentable because that would neutralize between you have like whether you have a lot of smaller units, or whether you have a larger unit and you have to look-- but you have to plot it based on location. Right? So. Omar: Yes, so you know as you get into those sort of issues right? Well, is it worth more than that corner?  James: Yes. Yes. You're right. Yes. You have to still do rent comes and analyze it.  Omar: Yes. James: So let's all-- Omar: I mean look, I get it, especially I think it works if you know one or two submarkets really well. Then you can really-- James: Correct. Correct. That's like my market I know price because I know the market pretty well. I just ask you this information, just tell me price per door. How much average square feet on the units and then I can tell you very quickly because I know the market pretty well. Omar: Because you know your Market, because you already know all the rents. You already know [crosstalk13:57] James: [crosstalk13:57] You have to know the rent. I said you have to build that database in your mind, on your spreadsheet to really underwrite things very quickly. So that's good. So let's go back to Jacksonville, right? So you looked-- what are the top three things that you look at when you chose Jacksonville at a high level in terms of like the macroeconomic indicators? Omar: Oh see, I wasn't necessarily just looking at Jackson. What I did is I did a relative value comparison saying what is the relative value I get in Jacksonville versus a value say I get in a Tampa, Atlanta or in Orlando and how does that relatively compare to each other?  James: So, how do you measure relative-- Omar: What I did is for instance for a similar type of say vintage, right? Say a mid 80s, mid 70s vintage, and for a similar type of median income which was giving me a similar type of rent. Say a median income say 40 Grand a year or 38 to 40 Grand a year resulting in an average rate of about $800. Right? And a vintage say mid 70s, right? Board construction. Now what am I getting, again this is very basic maths, right? This is not I'm not trying to like make up.  James: Yes. Absolutely. Omar: A model out of this, right? So the basic math is, okay what is the price per unit I'm getting in say, what I have a certain crime rating, I have a certain median income rating and I have a certain amount of growth rating. And by growth I mean not just some market growth, [inaudible 15:21] are Elementary Schools nearby? Are there shopping and amenities nearby? Is Transportation accessible, you know, one or two highways that sort of stuff. Right? So for those types of similar things in specific submarkets, [inaudible 15:33] Jacksonville had three, Tampa had two and Orlando had three and Atlanta had four, right? What is the average price per unit I'm facing for similar type of demographics with a similar type of rent profile? With similar type of growth profile I mean you just plot them on a spreadsheet, right? And with the similar type of basically, you know how they performed after 2008 and when I was looking at that, what I was looking at again, is this precise? No, it's not a crystal ball. But these are just to wrap your head around a certain problem. Right? You have to frame it a certain way.  James: Okay. Omar: And what I was seeing across the board was that it all boils down to when you take these things because at the end of the day, all you're really concerned is what price am I getting this at, right? Once you normalize for all the other things, right? James: Correct. Correct. Omar: Right? And what I was seeing was just generally Jacksonville, the pricing was just like I said compared to Tampa which by the way is a fantastic market, right? But pricing was just 15 to 20% below Tampa. I mean Tampa pricing is just crazy. I mean right now I can look at the flyer and tell you their 60s and mid 70s vintage is going for $130,000 $120,000 a unit in an area where the median income is 38 to 40 Grand. James: Why is that? Omar: I don't know. It's not one of this is that the state Tampa is actually a very good market, okay. Let's be [inaudible 16:47] it's very good market. It's a very hot market now. People are willing to pay money for that. Right? So now maybe I'm not the one paying money for it, but there's obviously enough people out there that are taking that back. So. James: But why is that? Is it because they hope that Tampa is going to grow because-- Omar: Well, yes. Well if Tampa doesn't grow they're all screwed James. James: No, but are they assuming that growth or are they seeing something that we are not seeing? Because, if people are earning 30, 40 thousand median household income and the amount of apartment prices that much, they could be some of the metrics that they are seeing that they think-- Omar: Well, yes. Tampa's growth has been off the charts in the past few years, right? James: Okay. Okay. Omar: So what look-- first of all this is the obvious disclaimer is I don't know what I don't know. Right? So I don't know what everybody else is looking at. Our Tampa's growth has been off the charts, there is a lot of development and redevelopment and all that stuff happening in the wider metro area. So people are underwriting five, six, seven, eight percent growth.  James: Okay. So the growth is being-- Omar: No, the growth is very-- look the growth has been very high so far. James: Okay. Got it. Omar: My underlying assumption is, as I go in with the assumption that the growth must be high but as soon as I get in the growth will go down.  James: But why is that growth? I mean that is specific macroeconomic.  Omar: Oh yes, yes. There's first of all, there's a port there, number one. The port -- James: In Tampa. Okay. You're talking about Jacksonville or Tampa right now? Omar: No, I'm talking Tampa. James: Okay. Omar: Jacksonville also has it, but Tampa also has it, okay. James: Okay. Got it. Got it. Omar: Tampa is also fast becoming, Tampa and Orlando by the way are connected with this, what is it? I to or I for whatever, it's connected by. So they're faster like, you know San Antonio and Austin how their kind of converging like this? James: Correct. Correct. Omar: Tampa and Orlando are sort of converging like this. James: Got it. Got it. Omar: Number one. Number two, they're very diversified employment base, you know all the typical Medical, Government, Finance, Healthcare all of that sort of stuff, right? Logistics this and that. And plus the deal is man, they're also repositioning themselves as a tourist destination and they've been very successful at it. James: Okay.  Omar: Because there's lots to do you know you have a nice beach. So, you know that kind of helps all this, right? Have a nice beach. James: Correct. Correct. Omar: Really nice weather, you know. So they're really positioning it that way and it also helps that you've got Disneyland which is about 90 minutes away from you in Orlando. So you can kind of get some of the acts things while you come to Tampa you enjoy all the stuff here. Because Orlando relative to Tampa is not, I mean outside of Disneyland there's not a lot to do though. But a lot of like nightlife and entertainment and all that.  James: But I also heard from someone saying that like Orlando because it is more of a central location of Florida and because of all the hurricane and people are less worried about hurricane in the central because it you know, it has less impact. Omar: James. James. James: Can you hear me? Omar: When people don't get a hurricane, they are not going to be the people who get the hurricane. Other people get hurricanes. Not us. James: Correct, correct. Omar: But that's not always the case but that's the assumption.  James: Okay. By Tampa is the same case as well? Like, you know because of-- Omar: I don't know exactly how many hurricanes they've got but look man, they seem to be doing fine. I mean if they receive the hurricane they seem to be doing very fine after a hurricane.  James: Okay. Okay. So let's go to Jacksonville, that's a market that did not exist in the map of hotness, of apartment and recently in the past three, four years or maybe more than that. Maybe you can tell me a lot more history than that. Why did it pop out as a good market to invest as an apartment? Omar: Well, because Jackson actually, we talk to the Chamber of Commerce actually about this. And the Chamber of Commerce has done a fantastic job in attracting people, number one. Because first of all Florida has no state income tax. What they've also done is a very low otherwise state a low or minimum tax environment [inaudible20:29] What they've also done is, they reconfigured their whole thing as a logistical Center as well. So they already had the military and people always used to say, oh Tampa, Jacksonville's got a lot of military, but it turns out military's only 11% of the economy now. James: Okay. Okay. Omar: So they've reposition themselves as a leading Health Care Center provider, all that sort of, Mayo Clinic has an offshoot there by the way, just to let you know. It's a number one ranked Hospital.  James: Oh Mayo Clinic. Okay. Okay. We always wonder what is Mayo Clinic, but now you clarified that. Omar: Right? So Mayo Clinic is in Rochester I think. One of my wise colleagues is there actually. Think it's in Rochester Minnesota. It's one of the leading hospitals in the world. James: Okay. Got it. Omar: And now they've actually had an offshoot in basically Jacksonville, which is the number one ranked Hospital in Florida. Plus they've got a lot of good healthcare jobs. They've really repositioned themselves not only as a great Port because the port of Jacksonville is really good and they're really expanding their ports. You know Chicon, the owner of Jacksonville Jaguars, man he's going crazy. He is spending like two or three or four billion dollars redeveloping everything.  James: Got it. Got it. Omar: [inaudible 21:32] what they've done is because of their location, because they're right, I mean Georgia is about 90 minutes away, Southern Georgia, right? And now you have to go into basically, Florida and basically go to the Panhandle. What they've also done is because of their poor, because of their transportation Network and then proximity to the East Coast they repositioned themselves as a Logistical Center as well.  James: Got it. That's what I heard is one of the big drivers for Jacksonville. And I also heard about the opening of Panama Canal has given that option from like importing things from China. It's much, much faster to go through Panama Canal and go through Jacksonville. Omar: Oh, yes. James: Makes it a very good distribution centre. Omar: Because the other board right after Jacksonville in which by the way is also going through a big redevelopment and vitalization is Savannah, Georgia.  James: Okay. Yes. Omar: [inaudible 22:17] big enough and I think Jacksonville does something like, I mean don't quote me on this but like 31% of all the cars that are imported into the U.S. come through the Jacksonville Port. So there's a lot of activity there, right? But they've really done a good job. The Government there has done a fantastic job in attracting all this talent and all these businesses.  James: Okay. Okay. Got it. So let me recap on the process that you came to Jacksonville and going to the submarket. So you looked at a few big hot markets for apartments and looked at similar characteristics for that submarket that you want like for closer to school, in a good location and you look at the deal flow that you are getting from each of these markets. And then you, I mean from your assessment Jacksonville has a good value that you can go and buy right now for that specific demographic of location I guess, right? Omar: Look I love Atlanta as well. I was actually in Atlanta a few weeks ago looking at some, touring some properties. So that doesn't mean Atlanta isn't good or say Tampa or Orlando is good. We were just finding the best deals in Jacksonville.  James: Okay. Okay. So the approach you're taking is like basically looking at the market and shifting it to look for deals in specific locations of submarket where you think there is a good value to be created rather than just randomly looking at deals, right? Because-- Omar: Because man it doesn't really help you, right? If you really go crazy if you try to randomly look at deals.  James: Yes. Yes. I think a lot of people just look at deals. What, where is the deal? What's the deal that exist? Start underwriting the deals right? So-- Omar: Oh I don't have that much free time and I have a son who's like 18 months old man My wife is going to leave me if I start underwriting every deal that comes across my desk.  James: Yes, I don't do all the deals that comes across. Omar: I'm going to kill myself trying to do all that. Yes man it's very surprising I see a lot of people especially on Facebook posting. I mean I get up in the morning and I see this, [inaudible 24:05] who loves to underwrite deals? And I'm like, dude it's 1 a.m. Go get a beer. Why are you underwriting a deal at 1 a.m., man?  James: Yes. Yes. Yes I think some people think that you can open up a big funnel and make sure you know out of that funnel you get one or two good deals, right? But also if you have experience enough you can get the right funnel to make sure you only get quality data in, so that whatever comes in is more quality. Omar: My point is man, why do you want to underwrite more deals? Why don't you underwrite the right deal and spend more time on that deal or that set of deals. James: Correct. Omar: Because there's just so many transactions in the U.S. man. There's no way I can keep up man. James: Correct. Correct. Correct. So let's go to your underwriting Jacksonville because I think that's important, right? So now you already select a few submarkets in Jacksonville, right and then you start networking with Brokers, is that what you did?  Omar: Yes. Yes but you know with Brokers also, you kind of have to train them, right? Because what happened is every time what are you looking at? All that after all that jazz, wine and dining and all that stuff. We had to train Brokers [inaudible25:08] here are only specific submarkets we're looking at. So for instance Jacksonville, it was San Jose, San Marcos, it's the beaches, it was Mandarin and orange [inaudible25:16]  James: Okay. Omar: And Argyle Forest was certainly, right? If it's anything outside of that, unless I don't know it's like the deal of the century, right? Literally, somebody is just handing it away. We don't want to look at it. Don't waste my time. And invariably what the Brokers will do, because it's their job they have to do it. They'll send you deals from other submarkets because they want to sell. Hey, I think this is great. You will love this. James: Yes. Omar: And you have to keep telling them, hey man I really appreciative that you send me this stuff, not interested. Not interested. So, but what that does is you do this a few times and then the Broker really remembers your name when a deal in your particular submarket does show up. Because then you go to the top of the pile. James: Correct. Because they know that you asked specifically for these right now.  Omar: Yes. [inaudible25:58] You know the deal. Right? So that's kind of what we get, right? James: So let's say they send a deal that matches your location. So what is the next thing we look at? Omar: So what I basically look at is what are the demographics. Median income has got to be at the minimum 38 to 40 thousand dollars minimum. James: What, at median household income? Omar: Median household income. Right? James: Got it. Got it. Why do you think median household income is important? Omar: Because look, again this is rough math I didn't do a PhD in [inaudible 26:27]  James: Sure, sure, sure. Go ahead. Omar: Typically, you know, where [inaudible 26:30] everybody says BC but really everybody is doing C. Okay, you can just-- I think people just say B to sound nice. Right? It's really C. Okay, let's be honest. Right? Typically with a C if you're going to push [inaudible 26:41] within one or two years, in these submarkets at least, I don't know about other areas. Typically you want to push the rents to around a thousand dollars a month, give or take. Average rate. I'm just talking very cool terms, right? Which basically means that if you're pushing it to a thousand dollars a month and the affordability index is it should be 33%, 1000 times 12 is 12, 12 times 3 is 36. So I just added an extra 2,000 on top or 4000 on top just to give a margin of safety.  James: Okay. Omar: Right? It's very simple math, right? There's nothing complex in it. Right?  James: Correct. Omar: Because my point is if you're in an area where the average income is 30,000, man you can raise your rent all you like. Nobody's going to pay you. James: Yes. Yes, correct. So I think we can let me clarify to the listeners, right? So basically when you rent to an apartment, we basically look for 3x income, right? So that's how it translates to the household income, average household income and if you want to do a value-add or where deals, you have a margin of buffer in our site and you're buying it lower than what the median household income, that's basically upside. That means you can find enough renters to fill up that upside, right?  Omar: Yes. James: Just to clarify to the listeners. So go ahead. So you basically look up median household income. What is the next step do you look for? Omar: Then I basically look at crime. Basically, I just-- I mean look, there's going to be a level of crime, what I'm really looking at is violent crime. Right? James: Violent crime. Okay. How do you look for which tools to use?  Omar: Well, you can go to crime map, crime ratings, you can subscribe to certain databases and they can give you neighborhood Scout is one by the way.  James: Okay. Okay. Omar: You can use that. And then on top of that because it's harder to do this for Texas, but you can do this in other states like Florida, Georgia and all of that. But for instance, what you can do is see what the comps in the submarket are. Right? And that kind of helps you in determining basically, look if all the properties for a certain vintage around you have traded for a certain amount of money, then if something is up or below that there's got to be a compelling reason for that. Now I'm not saying if it's above it's a bad reason and don't do it. There's got to be a compelling reason. Now they might be actually a very good reason. Right? James: Got it. Omar: So, you know that's like a rough idea and then basically I'm looking at rent upside. Basically look at co-stars and see what the average rents are for this property. What is roughly the average rent upside and you can also seek [inaudible29:04] place that I had a few contacts in Jacksonville and you can also call those up. Right? Again, rough math kind of gives you hey, do I send five hundred two hundred dollars and then basically see what is the amount of value [inaudible29:16]. Because for instance, if all the units have been renovated which by the way happened yesterday. Yesterday we came across [inaudible29:22] in Jackson where I know the Broker and I mean he sent me the email. You know, the email blast out and basically what we saw was the location was great, there's a lot of rent up, supposedly there's rent upside, but when I called the guy up, we know each other. He's like, bro, all the units have been renovated. There's maybe 50, 75, I know you so I'm going to tell you there's only 50, 75 so the price isn't going to be worth it. James: Yes, and they'll ask you to do some weird stuff, right? Like go there, washer, dryer, rent the washer dryer out. Omar: Yes. Yes. James: But charge for assigned parking, right? So very small amount in terms of upside, right? Omar: My point is if it was so easy why don't you do it? James: Yes. Correct. Omar: That's the way I look at it.  James: Yes, usually I mean when I talk to the Brokers I will know within the few seconds whether it's a good deal or not. They'll be really excited if it matches what we are looking for, right? Especially-- Omar: Yes because I think the other deal is if you develop a good relationship with Brokers and they know what you're specifically looking for, good Brokers can kind of again look they have to sell but they can also give you some guidance along the way. James: Correct. Correct. Omar: Right? They can do a lot bro, it doesn't really work for you I think, but I'm just going to be honest with you, and look you still have to take it with a grain of salt but it is what it is.  James: Correct, correct. Okay. So look for rent upside by looking at rent comps and you said in Texas which is a non-disclosure state it's hard to find sales comp but…  Omar: Yes, but look, you know if you're in a market you're going to know who the people are doing deals. Which people are doing deals.  James: Okay. Omar: And even if you don't know it, say your property manager kind of knows it, or your  loan broker or lender knows kind of what deals have traded in the market. You got me. You can pick up a phone and call some people, right? Maybe you don't get all the information but you can get, I mean if you're in submarket or sometimes even in Texas, you can't know.  James: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So when do you start underwriting on your Excel sheet?  Omar: Oh bro after I've done the property tour because if these don't even pass this stuff why you even bothering to underwrite it.  James: Oh really? So okay. So you basically look at market-- Omar: [inaudible 31:28] My point is, if it passes all these filters and then I have a conversation, I talk to my property manager, I talk to the Broker, I talk to my local contacts there and if it's all a go and these are all five-minute conversations or less. It's not like a two hour long conversation if it passes through all this they're just going to [inaudible 31:45] property door, man.  James: Okay, so you basically-- but what about the price? How do you determine whether the price they asking is reasonable or not. Omar: Well, obviously because I can do a rough math and compare it against the comps, right?  James: Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. So you basically do [inaudible 31:59]  Omar: Oh, yes. Yes, because my point is why waste myself? Because look, the price could make sense, all the Brokers pictures we all know look fantastic. It looks like you're in like Beverly Hills, you know. So the pictures you know are kind of misleading, right? And the location might be really good but hey, you might go there and realize you know, the approach is really weird. Or for instance we were touring this one property and then 90% of I think the residents were just hanging out at 12:00 noon. James: Correct. Omar: Outside smoking.  James: At 12 o'clock. Wow. Omar: I said, well what the hell is this. Right? So my point is some things you only know when you do tour a property, there's no amount of videos and photos because the Broker isn't going to put a bad photo on.  James: Yes. Yes. Their Excel spreadsheets are going to tell you that, right?  Omar: Yes. James: So basically, you know, you have to go. What about what else do you look for when you do a property tour other than…  Omar: So you know when they're doing a property tour, like obviously I'm taking a lot of notes, I'm taking a lot of pictures, a lot of times the Broker will say one thing and then you kind of turn back around and ask the same question a different way just to kind of see. But what I also like to do is I also like to tour the property. On the property tour I like to have the current property manager and look I'm not stupid enough to say that the Broker hasn't coached the property manager. The broker has obviously coached the property manager that's his job. But a lot of times you'll realize that they haven't been coached enough. So if you ask the right questions the right way you can get some level of information. Again you have to verify everything and another trick I also figured out is. You should also try to talk to the maintenance guy and have him on the property tour and then take these people aside and so the Broker can be with somebody else. Ideally you should tour with two people. So if one guy takes care of the Broker and you take care of the property manager or the other way around. Because then you can isolate and ask questions, right? So especially if you take like say a maintenance guy and you ask him, hey man so what kind of cap X you think we should do? What do you think about the [inaudible 33:54]? A lot of times those people haven't been coached as much or at all. James: Correct.  Omar: And to be honest with you, man, we are in a high trust society. Most people aren't going to completely just lie to your face. They might lie a little bit but people aren't going to say red is blue and blue is purple. James: Correct. Omar: You know you can see that. You know when somebody says it, you can feel it. Come on. James: You can feel, yes. That's what I'm coming. You can actually see whether they are trying to hide stuff or not. But you're right, asking the maintenance guy is a better way than asking the property managers or even the other person is like leasing agent.  Omar: Yes. James: Who were assigned to you. They probably will tell you a lot more information. Omar: And that's why I feel like it's better to have two people like you and a partner touring. James: Okay. Omar: Because then different people, like one because look, and there is nothing wrong. The Broker has to do this. The Broker always wants to be with you to see every question is answered the way he wants it to be answered. So then one of your partners or you can tackle the Broker and the other person can tackle somebody else. James: Got it. Got it. So let's go to, okay so now you are done with the property tour. Now you're going to an [inaudible35:01] underwriting, right? So, how do you underwrite, I mean I want to talk especially about Jacksonville because it's a new market for you and you are looking at a new, how did you underwrite taxes, insurance and payroll because this-- Omar: Taxes was very easy to do. You talk to a tax consultant and you also see what historically the rate has been for the county. Right? James: Okay. Omar: But again, just because your new doesn't mean you don't know people. James: Correct. But how do you underwrite tax post acquisition? Because I mean in taxes is always very complicated-- Omar: No but taxes is harder, right? But [inaudible 35:32] in Florida it's easier because the sale is reported. They already know what price it is. James: So do they, so how much let's say how many percent do they increase it to after-- Omar: Typically in Duval County where we bought, it's about 80 to 85% [inaudible35:46]  James: Okay. Okay. That's it.  Omar: But the tax rate is low, right? Just to give you an idea the tax rate is [inaudible35:51] in Texas a tax rate is higher. So you understand there's lots of things and for instance in Florida there's an early payment discount. So if you pay in November, so it's November, December, January, February, right? So if you pay in November, which is four months before you should be paying you get 4% off your tax return.  James: Oh, that's really good. Omar: And if you pay in December you get 3% off, if you pay January you get well, whatever 2% off. In February you get 1% off. James: So what is the average tax rate in Florida?  Omar: I don't know about Florida. I know about Douval. It was like 1.81.  James: Wow, that's pretty low. Yes compared to-- Omar: Yes, but you also have to realize you have the percentage of assessed value is higher, right? Depending on which county you are in. You're in San Antonio and Austin where Bear county is just crazy. James: Bear Travis County, yes. Omar: Yes. Bear and Travis are just crazy but there are other counties in for instance Texas where the tax might be high but percentage of assessed value is really low.  James: Correct.  Omar: No, I mean it balances out. Right? My point is-- James: Yes. So but what about the, do you get to protest the tax and all that in the Duval County in Jacksonville? Omar: I think you can. No you were not, I think I know you can because we're going to do it. But you need to have a pretty good reason, right?  James: Okay. Okay. Omar: Right? And obviously look, you can show that yea, look I bought it for this price, but my income doesn't support this tax or this or that. I mean you have to hire the right people. I'm not going to go stand and do it myself.  James: So basically they do bump up the price of the acquisition, but it's very easy to determine that and 80 to 85% of whatever.  Omar; Yes. Yes. Yes. James: That's-- Omar: But look man, on the flip side is that when you go in, you kind of have a better control of your taxes in Texas where taxes can just go up and you [inaudible37:29]  James: Yes. Yes. You have no control in Texas. So we usually go very very conservative to a hundred percent. So which-- Omar: Look my point is it's good and bad, right? It depends where you are. So now people will say, oh the tax person knows all your numbers and like, yes but I can plan for it.  James: Yes, yes, correct. But it also gives you an expectation difference between buyer and seller because the buyer is saying this is my cap rate whereas the seller is saying, this is what, I mean the seller is going to say this is one of the cap rate whereas the buyer is going to say this is my cap rate will be after acquisition because-- Omar: Yes. Of course. James: So when it's smaller [inaudible38:03] between these two, the expectation is more aligned compared to in Texas because you know, it can jump up a lot and there's a lot of mismatch of expectations. Right? Omar: Well actually a deal in Houston, it's near Sugar Land and yesterday I was talking to this guy who wanted me on the deal and the other deal isn't going anywhere because the taxes were reassessed at double last year. Now he has to go to this the next week to fight it. Man, there's no way you're going to get double taxes in Florida or Georgia where there's our disclosure state, right? James: Correct. Correct, correct. So that's a good part because the buyer would be saying that's not my, the seller would be saying that's not my problem and buyer is going to say I have to underwrite that, right? So. Omar: I mean man, you can have a good case, right? Because it's not like somebody is saying something to you like, look man this is the law.  James: Yes, correct. So let's go back to Insurance. How do you underwrite Jacksonville Insurance? Because I know in Florida there is a lot of hurricane and all that-- Omar: [inaudible 38:58] just to give you an idea that is a complete myth because Jacksonville has only had one hurricane in the past eight years.  James: So is it lower than other parts of Florida? Or it just-- Omar: Yes. So the first it only depends where you are in Florida. Number one, right? Number two, it depends if you're in a flood plain or not, but that's in Texas as well. Right? And number three, it also depends a lot of times, well how many other claims have happened in your area? Right? Because that kind of for the insurance people that's kind of like a you know, how risky your area is quote unquote for them. So yes, so in Jacksonville, and apparently I did not need to know this information but we were told this information. Like the coast of Florida where Jacksonville is the golf coast is really warm where Jacksonville is, not golf courses on the other side, it's the Atlantic side. These are really warm waters relatively speaking. So apparently there's like some weather system which makes it really hard for hurricanes to come into Jacksonville. So that's why it's only had one hurricane in the 80 years.  James: So when you get your insurance quote, when you compare that to other parts of other markets-- Omar: Oh yes, Tampa was way higher, man. James: What about like Houston and Dallas?  Omar: I don't know about Houston because I haven't really lately looked at something in Houston. Right? So I can't really say about Houston and Dallas was maybe like say $25, $50 less maybe. James: Oh really. Okay.  Omar: Yes. It wasn't because that was a big question that came up for everybody. I was like look man, literally here's all the information and you don't even have to take my word for it because I'm giving you sources for all the information. Right? [crosstalk40:24] James: [crosstalk40:25] rate at different markets? Omar: Sorry? James: Are you talking about the insurance rate for-- Omar: Yes. Yes. Yes. Because a lot of guys from Chicago, I had a few investors they were like, but Florida has real hurricanes. I was like, yes but Jacksonville doesn't. James: Okay, got it. So you basically got a code from the insurance guy for the-- Omar: Oh yes man, I wasn't just going to go in and just put my own number that has no basis in reality.  James: Correct, correct. So, what about payroll? How did you determine the payroll?  Omar: So the payroll is pretty easy man. You know how much people get paid on per whatever hour. You know, you can have a rough idea how many people you are going to put on site and then you know what the load is, so then it gets pretty easy to calculate what your payroll is going to be. James: What was the load that you put in? Omar: So the load in this particular case was like 40% which is very high. James: Okay-- Omar: Yes it is pretty high. But the-- James: That is pretty high is very high. Omar: No. No. No. But hold on. They put our wages really low, right?  James: Oh really? Okay. Omar: Then you have got to [inaudible41:16] around. I was paying roughly the same that I was paying in [inaudible41:19]  James: Really? So why is that market…  Omar: I have no idea man, and I tried to check I asked multiple people. We did all that song and dancing. It's all kind of the same.  James: So you looked at the current financials and looked at the payroll? Omar: No. No, I was talking about my payroll would be going forward. I don't really care what the guy before me paid. Why do I care? James: So you got that from your property management?  Omar: Yes. Yes. Yes. And then I verified it with other property managers and blah blah blah blah blah checked everything, you know did all the due diligence. James: Got it. Yes. It's interesting that because 40% is really high. I mean usually-- Omar: Yes but [inaudible41:52] basis was really low. Like people salaries are really lower.  James: Is that a Jacksonville specific? Omar: I don't know what it is specifically. I think it's a Florida-based thing relatively speaking. But yes, that's what I mean. I thought it was kind of weird too. But then I mean I checked with other people.  James: So the deal that you're doing, I presume is a value ad deal. Is that right? Omar: Oh yes, all the deals-- James: How deep is the value at? I mean roughly at high level, how much are you putting in? Omar: Man, nothing has been touched for ten years. In fact, let's put it this way. We have enough land we checked with the city that we have enough land at the back to develop 32 more units.  James: That's really good because it's hard to find deals now, you know. Like ten years not touched, right? All deals are being flip right now, right? So within a couple of years. So that's good. That should be a really good deal. And what is the-- Omar: A hundred percent we could do basically.  James: What was your expense ratio that you see based on income divided by your expenses? I mean first-- Omar: Hold on man, let me just take it out. I don't even have to tell you. Hold on.  James: Okay. Omar: Why even bother you know?  James: Because usually like 50 to 55% is common in the [inaudible 42:59] industry. Omar: Oh no in basically in Jacksonville. You can get really lower expense ratios.  James: Okay.  Omar: It depends if it's submarket [inaudible43:05]  James: Yes, and I know like in Phoenix, I think it was like 45, or 40% which was surprising to me [crosstalk43:13]  Omar: [crosstalk43:13] this right now. Hold on let me open this model I can tell you right now. I don't want to give you something [inaudible 43:21] then variably one person's going to be like, I looked at your deal your numbers--Like, yes I'm sorry. I don't like have like numbers with second decimal points. Because people always do that to try to catch you. Right? And they're like, yes it's off by like $2 man. So hold on, divided by, oh yes so it was operating at 52 and yes first year we're going to be at 56 because you know we are repositioning-- James: Yes. First year of course, it will be higher-- Omar: And then we just go down.  James: Okay. Okay, okay that's interesting, that's good. So, and then as the income grows and your expenses stabilize, I think that expenses should be-- Omar: That's the only reason why the expense ratio goes down. Right? Because you're basically your top Line growth is way higher than your basically your expense growth.  James: Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay, that's really good. And you look for mid teens IRR. Omar: Mid teens IRR, a 10% cash flow and stabilized, all that jazz. James: Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay, that sounds good in terms of the underwriting. So-- Omar: Am I giving you all my secrets James?  James: Yes, absolutely. I will be very specific to Jacksonville. Right? I like to see you know, how each market is being underwritten and so that a business can learn and you know, it's very specific to people who do a lot of analysis on the market because I think that's important, right? You can't just go and buy any deal out of the gate right there, right? So it's good to know that. And these three things like payroll, insurance and taxes are very tricky when you-- Omar: Oh yes. James: --in different markets. So it's good to understand how does that county or that particular city or state determines their property taxes? Because we have different things in taxes here where I buy so it's good to understand. That's good. What is the most valuable value ad that you think that you're going to be doing to this deal? Omar: Oh well look man, because nothing had been touched. I think everything is valuable.  James: Okay. Omar: Hold on but that we lucked out also, right? There's a part of this is work and preparation. Or part of this is luck also. I mean you can't just take that portion away, right? James: Oh yes yes. Absolutely. Omar: All my hard work. Right? James: Absolutely. Absolutely. Omar: Because there's lots of people-- James: It's really hard to find that kind of deals nowadays, right? So how much was your rehab budget?  Omar: So rehab is about a million dollars. James: A million dollars. So let's say your million-dollar today become 500,000 right? I'm showing million dollar you're bringing into your exterior everything upgrade. Right? So let's say then-- Omar: Your exterior is roughly split 70/30. Interior [inaudible46:01]  James: Okay. Okay. So between interior and exterior which one do you think is more important?  Omar: I think if you only had a few dollars, exterior. James: Exterior, okay. Omar: Because people make a-- again this doesn't mean you should ignore the interior. Just to add a disclaimer. The point is, my point is a lot of times we as humans make decisions on first impressions. So if you come into a property and the clubhouse looks [inaudible 46:28] the approach looks [inaudible 46:29] the trees are trimmed, the parking lot is done nicely, then you go to an apartment which may, I mean I'm not saying it should be a complete disaster, but it might not be the best apartment in the world. You can overcome that. Right? But if you come in and the approach looks like you know, somebody got murdered here, right and the clubhouse looks like you know fights happen here, then no matter how good your indeed a renovation is, there's a good chance people will say well, I mean, it looks like I might get killed to just get into my apartment. James: Yes. Omar: Right? So it's the first impression thing more than anything else. It's like any other thing in life I feel. James: Absolutely. So let's say you are 300,000 for exterior. Right? Let's say that 300,000 become a 150,000, what are the important exterior renovation that you would focus on? Omar: So we did all the tree trimming because man, there's first of all living in Texas you realize how much a mystery still [inaudible 47:26] right? So first of all, tree trimming. Trees hadn't been trimmed for 10 years man. They were beautiful Spanish [inaudible 47:34] oak trees with Spanish moss on them. But they just hadn't been trimmed. James: Okay. Okay. Omar: So doing all the tree trimming, all the landscaping, then basically resealing the driveway and then making sure all the flower beds and all the approach leading up to all of that was done properly and the monument signage.  James: Okay, got it. So this is what you would focus on. And what about-- Omar: But also putting a dog park by the way. [inaudible 47:57] you said if my $300,000 budget went to 150 what I do and that's-- James: Yes. Dog park is not very expensive. Omar: Yes. But I'm saying it's stuff like dog park and [inaudible 48:06] to your outdoor kitchen, you're swimming pool, put a bigger sign in. You know [inaudible48:11]  James: Yes and dog park is one of the most valuable value ad because you spend less on it, but a lot of people want it, right? So for some reason, I mean people like pets and all that. So what about the interior? You have 700,000, how much per door are you planning to put for each-- Omar: So roughly say I can do the math roughly. There was six something. Right? So and James: [inaudible48:32]  Omar: Yes, so we're not even-- so we're planning on doing roughly say 75% of the unit's right? So I think that's  104 units if you go 700 divided by 104, roughly we were going to be around $6500 per unit. James; Okay. That's a pretty large budget.  Omar: Yes, man you should see some of these units man, I was like why God how do people even live here?  James: Yes. Omar: Because it's a very affluent. I mean relatively middle class, upper middle class submarket, right? They just haven't done anything.  James: So are you going to be using the property management company to do the renovations? Omar: They have a very fantastic reputation and they were highly recommended a few of our other contacts also use them so that's why. James: Okay. Omar: Because we were seeing problems with a lot of other people's property managers. Either they didn't have the right staff or didn't have the right professionals and this and that indeed these guys were properly integrated across the value chain. James: So at high level, what are you doing on the interiors? Omar: High level Interiors, it's a typical, [inaudible 49:29] back splashes, change the kitchen appliances, countertops, medicine cabinets, lighting packages. The other small little thing which we realized was a very big value add but was cost us less than two dollars and fifty cents per outlet was the [inaudible 49:45] Yes it was the biggest value add-- James: Yeah, biggest value add; that is the most valuable value add. Right? Omar: Yes. James: Like I've never done it in any of my properties but I was telling my wife, Shanti and I said, hey, you know, we should do these, you know, because it's so cheap and a lot of people, a lot of-- Omar: Yes, it was like two dollars or whatever, it was cheaper than that and people cannot get over the fact that they have so many USB out, I was like, everywhere there is a plug there's got to be a USB outlet. James: So do you put for every outlet? The USB? Omar: Not for every, I was dramatizing but I mean for the ones that are accessible say around the kitchen, living room. James: Okay interesting I should steal that idea.  Omar: I didn't invent the idea go for it man.  James: Yes. Omar: [inaudible 50:25] USB port so take it.  James: I know a few other people who do it mentioned that too but I'm not sure for some reason we are not doing it. But that should be a very simple-- Omar: People love it man. And I don't blame them man. Like it's freaking aggravating sometimes, you know, when you got to put like a little thing on top of your USB and then you plug it in. James: Yes, imagine how much you know, this life has changed around all this electronic [crosstalk50:46] devices and all that. So interesting. So did you get a lot of advice from your property management companies on how to work and what are the things to renovate and all that? Or how-- Omar: Yes, and no because we had been developing a relationship with them six months prior to this acquisition. So we had a good relationship with not just them but with other vendors in the market. And especially luckily for us the regional we have for this property right now, actually in an earlier life and with an earlier employer had actually started working on this asset 15 years ago as a property manager. This is sheer dumb luck. This is not by design. So she really knew where all the [inaudible51:24]  James: Yes. Yes, that's interesting. Sometimes you get people who have been in the industry for some time. They say yes, I've worked on that property before they, which is good for us because they know. Got it. Got it. So let's go to a more personal side of things. Right? So you have been pretty successful now and you're doing an apartment syndication now and all that, right? So why do you do what you do? Omar: James, I know a lot of people try to say they have a big "why" and they have a really philosophical reason James, my big "why" is James, I really like-- my lifestyle is very expensive James. So all these nice suits. James: Okay. Omar: All these nice vacations man, they're not cheap. Okay. Real estate is a pretty good way to make a lot of money man.  James: Okay.  Omar: I want to give you a philosophical reason, I know a lot of people say they have the Immigrant success story, Oh I came from India or I came from Pakistan, I ate out of a dumpster, I worked in a gas station and no I had five dollars in my pocket, and everybody tells me that and I say, okay what did you do man? I don't know did you just swim from India, you had two dollars in your pocket you need to get on a plane buddy.  James: You can't be here, right?  Omar: No Indian shows up to America and [inaudible 52:37] Are you kidding me? All the Indians are educated. Everybody's an engineer or doctor or lawyer. You kidding me. He shows up with five dollars, man. So no I didn't show up to this country with five dollars James. I didn't eat out of a dumpster. I didn't work at a gas station, and I'm very grateful for that. Right? I've always had a very good lifestyle and I don't need to have a philosophical reason to say I'm doing this to, I don't know, solve world hunger or poverty or whatever. I have a pretty good lifestyle. I'm very grateful and very blessed. And the biggest thing in my life is being that, look I moved to Texas man I didn't know anybody. Right? But people have been so generous, people have been so kind to me. I'm not just saying investing with us, which is very nice, which I'm very grateful but also connecting me with other people, right? Hey, hey just opening a door. They didn't have to do it, but people have been so generous and so kind, So I quite enjoy the fact man that it's a good way to  make an honest living, right? I have a very expensive lifestyle that needs to get financed and that's just the way it is. And I didn't show up with two dollars in my pocket. So I'm very  grateful for that.  James: That sounds good. So, can you give some, do you have any daily habits that you think makes you more successful? Omar: No man, I just get up every day and I try to put one step after the other but consistently work in the same direction. So every day I'm reaching out to people and that's a lot of small little tasks. First of all, I never like getting up early but I've always known the value of getting up early. So I get up in the morning, right? 5:45, 550 ish I kind of up. Most days not always, right? I read a lot of books man. I reach out to Brokers all the time. I'm always looking at deals, coordinating with my team to do stuff and a lot of these like you do in your business there are a lot of small little tasks there's no one task that is, oh my God, you do this and [inaudible 54:33] But it's just small little tasks that you do daily, every single day in and day out. So even if you're feeling sick, even if your head is hurting you just do it.  James: So can you give a few advice to people who want to start in this business? Omar: Regularly communicating. So in my particular case, I don't know like when you're starting out specifically everybody has a different pain point, right? So in my particular case for instance on a daily, I can't say about weekly I can tell you, staying in touch with my marketing people, emailing Brokers, emailing investors, following up with people I've had conversations with, especially leads, you know people who use this stuff. A lot of word of mouth and just doing the stuff over and over and over. But it's not like I have a 9:00 to 5:00 now, right? It's not like oh Friday, I'm done and Saturday, Sunday I'm relaxing. I mean I could relax on a Monday now, but Saturday and Sunday I'm working. Right? So that's a good-- but it's like the same as you were doing with your business, right?  James: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Omar it has been really a pleasure to have you on this podcast. Is there anything that you have never mentioned in other podcasts that you want to mention? Omar: No James, I don't want to go down that route man.  James: Is there something that you want to tell, you know people who listen to you that you think that would be a good thing to talk about? Omar: Yes, what I want to tell people is listen, I don't think you should take words of wisdom for me. But what I should tell people is guys, honestly, I don't l

Let's Talk about Men's Social Relationships... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry we have Dr. Jameson Mercier, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Doctor of Marriage and Family Therapy. His areas of specialization include Marriage/Family Therapy and fatherhood and this week the Lunch and Learn Community is in for a treat as he comes on to discuss the importance of social relationships for men and what happens when the correct ones are not in place. As we wrap up the end of men's health month I thought it would be extremely important to touch on mental health in men. When we talk about men's health month quite often we focus on the big diseases such as prostate cancer, colon cancer, and addiction but I know that I have come across many men who have these poor social habits and how it affects all their relationships. I talked about this before but as a outpatient clinical specialist one of the top 2 reasons why men would come to see me for an appointment was either someone was dragging them to the office or erectile dysfunction complaints. A recent journal article noted: "Social connections can act as a buffer against the impact of stressful or negative life experiences on mental health, the onset of mental ill health, including depression and suicidal behavior and can increase the likelihood of those with mental health problems seeking professional help." Social relation is defined as the relationship between two individuals and I know that after listening to this episode you are going to come away with a much better understanding of why your male family member acts the way they act. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and share the episode with a friend or family member Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Dr. Pierre's Resources - These are some of the tools I use to become successful using social media Links/Resources: Mercier Wellness The Couples Counsel - Apple Podcast Creole Adventures Guest Appearance on The Couples Counsel Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community – https://www.drberrypierre.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter – http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod – use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drberrypierre.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod Download Episode 114 Transcript Episode 114 Transcript... Introduction Dr. Berry: And welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. I'm your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of drberrypierre.com, as well as the CEO of Pierre Medical Consulting, helping you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy. And this week we end Men's Health Month. Again, we’ve had some amazing guests this month. And I want to touch on a topic that I think gets brush over when we talk about men's health, right? And that's the mental aspect of it. And most importantly, we're gonna be talking about the importance of social relationships in men, right? And when they lack it, what's the problem and what happens when they have a good social relationship, right? And when I was thinking about the topic of hand and I was trying to figure out who should we bring on this episode only had a couple people in mind and I was very fortunate enough to get Dr. Jameson Mercier on podcast to really drive home the fact that if our mind isn't there, if we don't connect. And again this is a very tough topic for men to talk about because when it comes to our emotions when it comes to the mental health when it comes to getting ourselves together for other people, is that something we do willingly. And Dr. Mercier, as a clinical social worker who has a Doctorate in Marriage and Family Therapy and he deals with it on the mental health aspect. I've talked about it all the time wherein medicine, I sometimes have trouble getting my men to open up to me to tell me like, hey, I'm having these medical related problems. So you can only imagine the difficulty he may be experiencing and not maybe he actually does and experience when dealing with getting men to open up about their mental health wellness and wellbeing. So again, I wanted to kind of give a little quick little bio just so you can understand just how important this guy, Dr. Mercier is for not only discussion but just the topic of mental health in general. So Dr. Jameson Mercier is a licensed clinical social worker. Like I said, a doctor in Marriage and Family Therapy where he got his Ph.D. and family therapy from Nova southeastern university. He also earned a bachelor's and master's degree in social work from the University of South Florida and Barry University, is areas of specialization include marriage and family therapy as well as fatherhood. He is a qualified supervisor for the state of Florida for clinical social work, family therapy, and mental health counseling interns. Dr. Mercier provides counseling for families, couples as well as individuals. He consults with businesses, nonprofits, churches, and government organizations. He has been featured in various media outlets including Hot 105, The Miami Herald, The Discovery Channel, Bustle, and Huffington Post. He and his wife own a private practice called Mercier Wellness and Consulting. And ladies and gentlemen, most importantly, especially if you have a kind of been up to speed on everything, he and his wife actually have a podcast as well, which is called The Couple's Counsel. And me and my wife had actually had the opportunity to join onto the show and really talk about our relationships and how we deal with growing up with a child with autism. Right. So if you had not had a chance, I will link that episode, link in the show notes as well. Just like you can get a chance to obviously get in touch with their podcast. You listen to their podcast, subscribe to their podcast here. Me and my wife kind of discuss our journey parenting a child with autism. Of course the theme today is Men's Health Month and we're talking about mental health. We’re talking about social connections and relationships and I really wanted to hit this home because again, I've talked about the cancer's a lot, right? You know, earlier this month I talked about just making sure they go do their wellness exam. We had doctor Jen who actually hit home erectile dysfunction, sexual health. So again, we've talked about a lot of huge topics when we talk about men’s health and I figured there was no way I could end this month, a discussion on men's health without speaking on the mental health aspect of it. Right? So like always, if you have not had a chance, go ahead subscribe to the podcast and leave a five-star review. Again, I want you to follow Mercier. All of his information will be in the show notes as well. Get on their podcasts, subscribe to their podcast, five-star review their podcasts as well because it's actually amazing. And get ready for another amazing episode here on the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. Episode Dr. Berry: Alright Lunch and Learn community, you just heard another amazing introduction to Dr. Jameson. I've actually had the opportunity to not only meet in internet spirit out, you know, a lot of us get a chance to talk to, also met personally and been able to collaborate on different events here and there and definitely fortunate enough to get this gentleman. A personal actually well-respected on the podcast. Dr. Jameson Mercier, first of all, thank you for coming to the podcast and educating the Lunch and Learn community today. Dr. Jameson Mercier: It's my honor. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Berry: So you know, I gave your introduction, which again amazing. Again, it's been this running theme that a lot of our guests have our resume that I'm sometimes in awe of as myself. But for someone who, you know, they read it, they read your bio, what is something that they may not be able to know about you that isn't necessarily in our typical bio? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Funny, you should ask I guess a little known trivia or the little known fact I suppose because of the line of work that I'm in. So mental health counseling, I realize maybe a long time ago, but really a few years ago just how much I needed to be able to do something for myself to be able to disconnect and separate and recharge. And so I am, I want to call myself an avid outdoorsman, but living here in South Florida and the city, there's only so much outdoors. (You’re right.) But I enjoyed being outside. I enjoy camping. As a matter of fact, tomorrow we leave for a camping trip and then we leave for a road trip that involves another week of camping. It's going to be a four-week road trip. (Wow.) So I do that because if you do 8, 10, 12 hours sometime working with people, counseling, mental health medicine, as you well know, you need to be able to separate that and give your mind something to focus on other than people's problems and patients who may not be compliant. And so for me, the way I kind of maintain some of my own sanity and my own mental health, getting outside, whether that's fishing, whether that's just going out by the water or anything, really that's something I enjoy and I've started taking the kids, my wife, her dean will join me sometimes. We're documenting some of that. Just side notice, a little passion project. We have a new Instagram and YouTube channel that's called Creel Adventures. Dr. Berry: Okay. Alright. And the links will be in the show notes because I definitely wanna hear about this. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. And so all that is, is simply, you know, me disconnecting, being out in nature, doing some camping, fishing and just something just to recharge my mental, my emotional so I can come back and be just as good. Dr. Berry: I love it. And when you're doing these things right, you're like there are no cell phones, as disconnected as can be. Right? So it's not like you're going, but you're bringing all the technology with you? Dr. Jameson Mercier: No, no. As a matter of fact, when I go out and I go camping, I tried to get as primitive as possible. Right. You know, so I don't need no hookup for electricity. I don't need anything. (Oh, wow. Okay.) But when you bring your kids, and especially when you bring your wife who maybe lacks the creature comforts, (yes) there's some compromise that needs to happen there. But I could go without it. I don't need it. And you know, that stemmed from a couple of years, three or four years now did I did a show with the discovery channel where I was in the woods for two weeks. It was a survival show. So no, it was not naked and afraid. It was not naked and afraid. There was another show. But when you spend two weeks in the wilderness with a knife, some matchsticks and a canteen of water, you really begin to realize how little you need to survive. How little you need and how much, how good that does just to be disconnected and totally in nature. And so that really was a boost for me and I tried to get out there as often as I can. Dr. Berry: That’s amazing. Again, we'll definitely make sure where he got the links to that because I'm very interested as well. I'm not outdoorsman but you could probably convince me to go for a day or two, where you're going on for a week. So I'm definitely alright. (Do it man. Do it.) A question I ask, obviously when we talk about the disconnection, right? Your primary field is therapy. My wife's mental health therapy field as well. And it's definitely something that I know has made me a better physician because of it and because of the acknowledgment that I can only do so much. Without addressing the mental health aspect of a person. What drove you to that direction in the first place? What was it that made you say, you know what, this is something I could see myself doing? Dr. Jameson Mercier: So there's a couple of stories that come together to answer that for the sake of time, I'll give you the condensed version. When I was young, I was about eight or nine, my dad died and my mother was left to raise my brother and me and my sister. And at the time we did, you know, you have the church that supports you and they come and they kind of sit and pray with you. But we did not get any kind of counseling, traditional counseling, professional counseling. And in hindsight, we could have definitely benefited from even just a few sessions as a family, of grief counseling or of just some regular run of the mill counseling, whatever that might be. You know, just to kind of process what's going on. Because as I got older, I was angry. I was rebellious. Looking back, I was not as destructive as some would say, but I could see how some of my actions stemmed from the loss of my father. And so when I got into college and I was struggling. I was like, you know, let me just kind of figure this out. And when I realized that if I had gotten some counseling, things we've gotten did go different from me as it there's got to be more people who could benefit from what I didn't get. And so originally I wanted to do psychology, but I'll leave that to the guys who like to do the testing and assessments. I wanted to be in the homes with the families dealing with some of these issues. And social work is what I discovered with social work. And once I found social work, I hit the ground running and then I decided to specialize in marriage and family therapy because the issues that we are seeing in society, a lot of times really do stem from dysfunction within the home and within the family. (Let's talk about it. I love it.) What happens, they go unresolved. They go unaddressed and then they cycle and we talk about this, you know, there's that generational cycles. Some people will call it a generation occurs. It's simply a matter of not resolving what you know exists within your family and these patterns we just hand them down. One generation after another. And so I resolved myself to break that cycle within my family and to help other people who are willing to break these dysfunctional cycles and patterns within their relationships. Dr. Berry: What’s very interesting and especially the focus of marriage and family and understanding like where it starts and within. We talked this month, this is Men's Health Month. And when I was thinking about the topics that I wanted to kinda touch on, which is very typical, right? You know, the prostate cancer, colon, all of these things that happen to men and know men do not get in themselves together. I think a lot of times the mental health aspect is when that kind of gets brushed over, unfortunately. And more importantly, especially when we're talking about men and, and I know you, obviously you have kind of established a niche, right? Where you like talking to men. Like that's your thing, right? Which is always interesting. Because like I always figured we'd probably be the most difficult, the niche to deal with. We were terrible. Dr. Jameson Mercier: We are terrible. And I recognize that. I recognize just how bad men are when it comes to talking and communicating. Even with our wives sometimes, you know, the women in our lives, our kids, and it isn't that we don't want to. In my own experience has shown me that everything we want to say or should say is right there behind our teeth. It's on the back of the, on the inside of our lips. A lot of us, yes, we're not taught how to communicate like that. A lot of us didn't see it modeled for us. And so it isn't that we don't get the urge, we just can't bring our lips together to say those things we know are there, you know? So in my practice, when I get dad or a man or husband, whatever he is in life when I get them while they're in my office or on a virtual call, I hold on to that guy. I do not take it for granted because I understand all the things that had to happen (before you could get to it.) Oh man! (Wow. Okay.) You know, and it's interesting when it's almost like a friend, you know, it's almost like bro, I've been for you. And he's like yo, that unspoken conversation that happens and if there's a wife or girlfriend there, they don't understand. But I am just so glad to see men who show up to have those conversations. Dr. Berry: And what I love about, especially the motivation behind episode like this is when, and of course I'm doing my research. I'm looking up mental health and you know, all of the issues that men need to deal with. And I came across this a very interesting article. It was actually in the Journal of American Men's Health. And it hit me. Because it talks about social connections and really the lack thereof. It talks about men's health, it talks about the lack of proper support which led to a lot of the different issues I deal with on the medical side. Whether it's noncompliance, whether it be alcohol and substance abuse, where it on all of these things that I do from a medical side that this article really said like, hey, you know what, if they actually like established some good stuff, in the beginning, it wouldn't be a problem. But unfortunately, we don't. And then we ended up dealing with me, unfortunately. And so I want to talk about like, this was one of this first sentence kind of hit me right off the head. It said social connections can act as a buffer against the impact of stressful or negative life experiences on mental health. The onset of mental ill health, including depression and suicidal behavior and, can increase the likelihood of those mental health problems from being sought. And I didn't realize. Again, I may be naive because of course that's not my field. How important these social relationships and social connections are when it comes to men, that was something that kind of like took me abreast. Is that something that you find not just to be a common thing, but sometimes like it's in that issue where like wow, like yeah, they really have problems from the beginning just talking to people? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yes, men, we do. But let me give you an example that in my mind and in my opinion crystallizes that phrase that you just read. When you look at the military and you take these 20 men, 50 men, hundred men, whatever the case is, and you put them in a group, you put them through some very difficult stuff. This is even before they go to battle, but you put them through boot camp, you put them through whatever school they're going to together. They eat and sleep together. They do everything together. When they actually do, then go and see theater, they go to war. They have much better cohesion. They operate so much better. When you compare one guy who did not move with them and was dropped in after the fact. So the one guy, for example, was not part of this community. Okay, so there's something about being in a group that does buffer you, that does keep you safe. The guys who are suffering depression, the guys who are battling thoughts of suicide, they're not part of a group. They're not. It's very hard to remain sad and depressed when you are amongst a group. It's hard, one, the group on lets you, but even if you just kind of stay on the periphery on the fringes, there's something that happens there, you know, and they've studied this all along, especially in guys who are in the military. When you move together with a group, when you have that accountability and we don't need 50 guys, one or two good guys, good friends, it is a protective factor. Totally. This is why an AA, they do the group thing and they have the sponsor thing. This is why they are designed like that because that accountability from the groups, it's hard to recreate that. Dr. Berry: Does that kind of like lessen the burden? Does that kind of lesson, oh it totally causes they're gonna face the stressors? But like because you do it within a group setting it's not as much? Is that the thought process? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. It's not that you don't face it. It is that when you do face it, you have other people on which to share the load. It's funny, we go to school and we study all these things and I realize if I just watch women when it comes to this whole social contract thing. (Okay.) So much because women have this thing down the pack. If you're with five or six women at work or at a conference one we'll get up and they'll say, I'm going to the bathroom and then two or three will get up. I'm coming with you. As men, we don't do that. (No.) We don't do that. We don't even announce it. We just get up. I'll be back. If if we say that much, you know what I mean? And I had this conversation with a colleague of mine. I said, why do you guys announce that you're going to the restroom? And she looked at me, she says, I do? It's something they didn't even notice that. (So kind of like ingrained in them to say, like hey.) Something they do, anybody wants to come. And so go into the bathroom is not about going to the bathroom for them it's about, it's a social activity. Dr. Berry: Especially because the theory that adds there, right? Like that's either ingrained in them. Right? Versus from a like either genetic standpoint or just a social construct. They've grown up since they were little with these similar patterns. Do you find that's the case for men? Right. We're just ingrained to be individual. We're just ingrained to be alone and we almost have to be placed in army barracks type situation before we'll go out and join forces and hold hands. I wonder about that? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Well you know, when I think back and I observed kids, boys play like that. Boys and girls move and little cliques and groups and herds, but there comes a point where we make boys feel like that's not cool. You know, in elementary school boys will go to the bathroom together and boys will actually do like girls do and play in the bathroom. But somewhere along the line, they get this message that boys don't do that. And what we don't realize is, we begin to eat away at something that is very much beneficial. And so when they're young, we tell them they can't hang like that. When they're teenagers, you definitely don't do that for whatever homophobic reasons for whatever negative stereotypes. Men just don't do that until you find yourself in your mid-twenties and 30s and forties and now for you to say to a guy, hey, how are you doing? It's very awkward. (Let's talk about it.) It's awkward. It’s unfortunate, and I'll even take it further. I think there's something about black men in particular where this kind of seeing another man and just kind of approach, hey brother, how are you doing? Are you good? How are you feeling? Approaching another brother, another black man and saying, hey, how's your day going? Are you good? You know, the man, being a man, if we're to be a man, we can't be like that. Dr. Berry: And you know, I'm glad we kind of touched on this because of this kind of segues into my next concern. What is like the role of masculinity? Because I think we've kind of danced around what that it is, right? When they go from elementary school to middle school to high school too, you know, I think we danced around it, at least in my thought. Right? I've talked about it and sometimes I don't want to say sometimes I do blame masculinity in a lot of the different concerns, at least I see on the medical side. Versus them coming to see me for physicals for them even allow me to do certain physical exams that I need to do properly, like a dresser. What has been your experience on the relationship of masculinity and mental health and these social constructs when we talk about their social relationships in general? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. You know, if you're gonna be a man, if you're going to be masculine, you gotta be tough. You got to keep whatever issues you have inside. And so on your end, it's the medical stuff where at your legs been hurting, your back's been hurting, you walk in all crooked, hunched over, but you gotta be a man. You can't complain about that. On my side, yeah, you might be feeling sad. You might be depressed. You might be crying in your car. You might be sitting in your truck for an hour, just unable to pull it together. But you can't tell nobody that because men don't cry. Nobody wants to hear men complain. All kinds of just jacked up ideas. You know if you're going to be tough, if you're going to be a man, there are just some things that you don't do. Right? All the emotional stuff or the soft stuff, whatever the hell that is or those are, it's unfortunate. Dr. Berry: First of all, I think that’s 100% head on. Right? And for those who, Lunch and Learn community, usually when I talk about, when men come to my office to do the yearly physicals and I see their significant other or family member there, a lot of times they usually won't say nothing unless I ask the question like, oh is there anything else going on? And they'd be like, no. And I'm like, hey you better tell them about this. This is like, they're ready because they just assume like, like this person I'm sitting in there isn't going to tell you the full story. Dr. Jameson Mercier: They know. And so in my case, especially if I'm working with couples, I'll see them together a couple of sessions and then I separate them still. I see them on individual sessions and it's not until I get the guy by himself in my office, I get this whole narrative and I'm like, bro, we've been together for a couple of weeks. Why didn't you say this? And the reason why is because his wife or his girlfriend was there. And I'm like, whoa, how much are you not saying? Because you live with this person. Dr. Berry: Exactly. Interesting. Okay. Alright. Let's see. Let's see. Alright. I don't want to say I'm glad it happens on the mental health side, but I'm glad it's not just a medical. Dr. Jameson Mercier: No, no. We as men have a lot of problems, man. And I say that as lovingly and understandingly as possible. (Sure.) Because we just, I'll tell you a quick story. When I was in college, I was at 24, 25. I went to see my primary and I was working like crazy. I was studying, I had two and a half jobs still broke. So the stress was this way and heavy. And I came down with what I thought was a fever or a cold, and I went to see my doctor and they were like, ah, after a couple of tests they thought I had lymphoma. And so I'm like, I don't even know how to spell that. Like much less what that is. (Wow.) You know? And at the time my wife and I were dating, I go to the doctor and I come back, she goes, how was the doctor's appointment? How did it go? I'm like, eh, it was ok. Dr. Berry: Oh wow. Lunch and Learn community, I'm really laughing because you'd be surprised how often, like that conversation occurs and they'll be like, I just told my husband, he said, nothing went and his appointment was fine. I'm like, no. It wasn't like I told them this, this. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Man, listen. And so the week I went, my wife was supposed to travel for a little bit. My wife, my girlfriend at the time. And so I let her leave without telling her anything. And so I think the following day, however it played out, I had a biopsy scheduled and I'm living with a bunch of guys at this time and I said to the guys, hey, I'm might need a ride to the doctor. I didn't say hospital. (You didn't even tell them why?) And I'm living in a room in a house with four or five guys, including my brother. And so they dropped me off. I walk in, I have my biopsy. In a biopsy, they put you under and it down there like all day. And my wife was looking for me later that night. She was out of town, she couldn't find me. So finally she calls my brother and she's like, hey, I can't find Jameson, what's up? He's like, Oh yeah, I took him to a doctor's appointment. She's like, what doctor's appointment? And then he says doctor’s appointment at the hospital and my wife, she like, (hold on.) sharp tool, man. She goes, who the hell has a doctor's appointment at the hospital? And it's like nine o'clock at night and they're still there? Bro, and so I had to come clean and so, and again, I look back and I’m just like, that is so dumb. That is like so dumb. I'm not too hard on myself because I was in my twenties, but still, that is dumb. And I can excuse the young, my youth, the ignorance of my youth to some extent, but at 40 and 50 and 60, my God, there is absolutely no reason at all. Dr. Berry: And it still happens, for sure still happens. Which is wow, it's very interesting because you aren't telling a unique story bro. (I wish I was. I wish I was.) Okay. Alright, see. Like I said, I like this kindred spirit that we got going on here, right? Because like now I'm seeing how much on the mental health side, you guys clearly have the deal. We have just as much, if not more than we deal with on the medical side because you know, we were so personal. We think like, all right, maybe it's just us, right? Maybe they just don't want to take care. Clearly, even when they're on your end… Dr. Jameson Mercier: Always, universal man, it's universal. And the thing is I think, and maybe this is my bias, it's a little worse on my end because you can see a bad leg, you can see the physical manifestations. Me, I don't know anything. If you don't tell me. (Nope.) If you're not having an episode in my office, if no one saw you having an episode, if you don't come to my office smelling like alcohol, I don't know that you have a drinking problem. (Cool. Let's go.) I don't know that you're not sleeping because even if you're not sleeping, you get a quick nap in you look fine for an hour session. So, and we as men are like, we're just, forgive me, full of shit sometimes. We are manipulators and we've learned the art of covering up the pain. We mask it well. We hide it from strangers and unfortunately, I loved ones in our family. So whenever I get the chance, I sent texts and my friends or I see the campaigns that just say, hey, ask a friend, is he okay? Because there's guaranteed he's going through something and if he tells you he's okay. Call him a liar. (Yes.) Check your boy. Dr. Berry: Talk it. I love it and the reason why I love that because the article, right? I kind of started it all right? It broke down very typical relationships that men tend to have. Right? And then we've touched on, we've already actually touched on quite a few of them and they, they broken out to kind of four categories, right? They talked about the type of man who likes to like compartmentalize their relationship, right? So this is a person who treats his boys like boys, but treats his girl like this girls, right? So he is open. To be emotional to his girl, but not his boys. Right? Like, so in your situation, where you're in the house with not only your friends but a family and you're like, alright, this is the position I'm putting you in this box, but I'm going to tell my girl all this other stuff here. Hopefully, I'm going to tell her all of these, my emotional support. And I think what was interesting is that they found that even a person who has that type of relationship does it really consider themselves emotional. Right? So even when they're talking in the sense of like, I'm just talking to my girl, I'm living my girl, know how she feels. Oh, she just kinda tells me her stuff. They don't even consider themselves the emotional type, even on the, for the women's side, which I thought was extremely interesting. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. We can't even allow ourselves to consider that. Dr. Berry: Wow. And then there’s another type where we talk about a person who just has some difficulty and confining. Right? So this is a person who, they understand like, you know, I need to tell the person something that, let me just see where he's at. But because they have poor judgment, they don't realize like, oh, Berry not the type you tell that to in a way he's going to laugh at you and make fun of you and then they regress, right? (Yup, Yup, Yup.) And then they're like a closed shell and then it's even harder to get them to open up again. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Listen, I'll tell you another story, does that tell you another quick story. And some of my boys and I, we try to catch a football game every year, right? So whether we drive somewhere or fly somewhere, some years we get it in other years because of work, we can't. One year I was just, I was having some difficulties. My wife and I, we were like disagreeing on some stuff. We were disagreeing on some stuff and for whatever reason, I didn't feel like I could talk to her. I knew I could, but I don't know. We were just bumping heads. And this trip was coming up and I was so grateful for this trip (it's almost like an escape.) Oh, it gave me a way out for a few days and so I go to pick up my boy and then I think we were two or three in the car and we're driving and I'm sitting in the car and I said, man, they say, yo Jay, how are you doing? I'm like man, you know what man, is kind of messed up lately. That's what I said. And I can't tell you how much energy it took me to just kind of slide that just to say that. Right? But then I said that and then the guys in the car, they didn't say anything. (Silence. Just like as if you never even said anything.) They didn't say anything and in my mind I was like, look at these mofos right here, here I am screaming for help and blah blah blah. In hindsight, I was talking to one of them, this was maybe last year or two years ago, and I said, yo, you remember that trip? You remember that time? And he was like, kind of. I was like yo man, I was going through it and he goes, what? What do you mean? I said, yeah, and I said this. And he goes, what? That's all you said? We had a good laugh about it, man. But I'm just like, oh my goodness, it is insane the things that we go through. All I had to say was, guys, I'm struggling. If I had said, guys, I'm struggling, they would have rallied around me. (Right.) But I hid that or I pretended. Dr. Berry: I guess the better question is, would you have been able to get that type of insight where you would have realized that that was the code word you would have needed, right? Because it sounds like you said it, but not in the way they were willing to like, oh I can't, I'm not sure how to interpret this so I'm not going to go in that direction. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Well, here's the thing though. One, I mean these guys are not counselors. So, I've got to give them that much. And so I didn't necessarily communicate it in a way that they would've gotten it. I communicated it in a way that was as painless and easy for me to get it out. And sometimes the two just don't connect. Right? What's easy for me to say doesn't translate into someone understanding that I have some challenges going on. But we spent the whole weekend together, tailgating, drinking, eating and the whole time I'm worried about my relationship and my marriage and they didn't tell crap about that. Dr. Berry: Wow. It's funny. (It’s insane.) It’s insane, it really is because that really is how a lot of our relationships are formed. And whether we, the ones are actually forming that way. Right? Because again, like you know like your boy said, he's like, well why didn't you just say this? Like I would've been ready to help but you didn't say. Dr. Jameson Mercier: If nothing does, he would have been like yo dog, we got you. And you know what? That would have been all I needed at the time because again, I know they can't treat me. Yeah, I understand that. But I could have used a shoulder to lean on but I had to make the first move. Right? I had to be vulnerable in that sense. And that is something that we do not do well. Dr. Berry: Do you think we are capable of doing it well? Because I know we've talked about women because they've been ingrained in society. Has provided and allowed them that space. Do you think we're actually even capable of being that type of person who knows to reach out when they see that social media posts like, hey, reach out to my strong friend. Is that something that we can even do? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Without a doubt, man. We are capable. Because again, as men, as people, we have the capacity to do so much. We have the emotional capacity, we have the mental capacity, we are capable beings. The challenges, we are often not in a community, in a setting that creates a space for that. If you don't grow up observing that, if you don't grow up seeing your father, your cousin, your brother surrounded by men who put a hand on him, who hug him, who embrace each other, men who will cry together. Then you don't do that. You don't do that. You know, if you don't witness it, because it's a skill, right? We're talking about communication. We're talking about personal and interpersonal skills. It is a skill. The same way we can learn to communicate better with the women in our lives. We can definitely communicate better with the men and our friends and our buddies, guys who come to rely on in other capacities. This would just simply be just another form of support for us. We are totally, we are more than capable. Dr. Berry: Okay. Alright. So for the men who are able to grow their skill and practice this skill and be actually proficient in doing it, what has been your experience as far as how has it affected the other parts of the relationship, just in general? What has been your experience for that type of guy who's able to reach out and say, hey, I need help or reach out to them and honestly be the person who someone reaches out to? What has been your experience in those types of men especially from a positive standpoint in regards to their other experiences and health and wealth and everything else? Dr. Jameson Mercier: You know, it opens doors and windows you didn't know was there. Two things I said, you know, the two things that change your life - the books you read and the people you meet. And I've met some brothers who have totally changed my life. Whether it's business connections, whether it's learning about this new place I need to visit or whether it's about just have to find someone with a similar interest, you know? But guys who are able to say that, you know, listen, it sounds cheesy, you feel just a little bit freer. You feel free to move because you're less concerned about all that baggage and all that crap. You got to hide and you got to make sure nobody sees and at the same time you're hiding it, but you're trying to look like you just gliding on the water all the damn time. It allows for so much more to happen once you are able to just express that. Once you are able to say, hey guys, hey, I'm not doing so hot right now. Or if you don't hear from me over the weekend, just a quick phone call. You know, just those little things. It totally changes people's, I know for me being able to do that, and again, it's not always easy. But with the guys in my life who I am able to do that with, the quality of my relationship with these guys, my quality of life and that's not an exaggeration, has dramatically improved. Dr. Berry: I love it. So first of all, I really want to thank you for being able to really come up and kind of open up some of the eyes. And even if it's a right, just some of the mental locks that are there, especially for men. Obviously, it’s Men's Health Month. They’re going to get talked about prostate cancer and all those stuff to deal, right? But the fact that we're not allowing that to do blow over that mental health is important too. Right? A relationship is important. The fact that we're not allowing that to happen. I definitely want to thank you for coming onto the show and really driving home that fact. That I'm not, I don't think anyone else could have, especially because again, and I'm dating myself like as we speak, you're currently doing a Dadfident series, right? On Your podcast which I've been listening to, especially the one with Mr. Tracy Martin. (Yeah.) Another discussion. I mean the fact that you're able to kind of reach out and recognize and you're taking that mantle that it's difficult, right? I know it's difficult because it's difficult on the medical side, I love when, because I know the women are just easier, unfortunately. So I know when I got to do deal with men man, I got to put some work in it. But you're like headfirst. No, this is the group I want to go after. Dr. Jameson Mercier: That's my people's man. That's my people. You know when you recognize somebody going through something that you went through and you learned a few things, so you learn one thing, you got one thing in your pocket and you say, yo bro, just do this. Like, don't even think about it. Do just do this thing. And I'm sure you in in your field as well, you said, yo, just do this one thing and you'll be fine. You know, like I feel like that's what I'm here for. I say, bro, just try this and you'll be fine. All this stuff that you got going on that you're struggling with. Trust me, trust me. (Yes.) Do these two things and you'll be good. Dr. Berry: I love it. Before we let you go, I always want to really highlight the amazing guests that we have here and just really the amazing stuff that they do. So this I like to call is more of my promo type hour. I want you to tell Lunch and Learn community, obviously, you know, what do you get to offer, books, obviously you're everywhere, right? Like, again, if you listen to his bio, this guy's been everywhere. But you have anything you've got going on right now, whether it be courses, books, seminars, speaking engagement, what's going on in your world, obviously outside of this camping trip and that you've got to get off? Dr. Jameson Mercier: The easiest way to find out about us, I'll put this in upfront is mercierwellness.com and so that's the website, everything Mercier. And so by Mercier, I'm talking myself and my wife, Herdyne. We have a podcast where we talk couple stuff, whether that's communication, finances, parenting, we're wrapping up season one and prepping for season two. And so that's a lot of fun. It's a lot more fun than we thought it would be. Dr. Berry: Oh yes. And I can tell you Lunch and Learn community, me and my wife were on there. It was an amazing time. (Yes.) And I will make sure that link is in the show notes as well too. Amazing time. My wife and his wife know each other very well. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Of course, they do right? They’re women. They just know. And even if they didn't know each other, they would know each other because that's what women do. Dr. Berry: You know, so funny story especially that, I hate to cut you off. When your wife was actually reaching out to my wife, she even realizes like I was the husband. So she's like, oh can you get your husband, was like, oh, Mercier. She was like, who’s the husband? Berry Pierre. Oh, Berry Pierre! Like it was totally oblivious. Right? Everything was all about my wife at that time. Dr. Jameson Mercier: That's it. As I tell my wife, you're the connector here, you do it all. That's just how women are and we need women in our lives. So, Mercier Wellness. mercierwellness.com (That’s right.) The name of the podcast is The Couple's Council. That's what it's called. And that's everywhere on iTunes, that's everywhere. Once you're on iTunes, Stitcher, Google podcast, we’re there. We're getting ready to do, Herdyne and I were getting ready to do like a couple series, a couple’s couple series. One about intimacy because this is also another area when it comes to sex and intimacy. Couples are not communicating about that. Dr. Berry: Wow. And if you think you were going to communicate with anybody, it'd be your significant other. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Who you laying in bed with. Who you just living your life with day in and day out. And so recognizing this need where we were putting together a workshop about couples and intimacy. On the flip side, we're also gonna be releasing some new, starting up some new webinars, online webinars. People can log on and watch about different topics. So in addition to the podcast, we have those things that are dripping out and on the dad fit in front dead. You know, once I say this and I have to follow through with it and I almost don't want to go. Dr. Berry: Let’s go. He’s on record right now. Let's go. Dr. Jameson Mercier: I know, right? There’s a book that semi-done right? It’s called Dadfident: Black Fathers as Primary Caregivers. (Oh! I like that.) The idea that the black fathers don't do that. And that's a bald-faced lie, not all black and brown fathers are locked up or absent. So that's going to drop soon. And there's a couple of things that follow that. So we're busy around here and just trying to do some good work, man. Dr. Berry: I love it. And before you go, I always ask this question, how is what you're doing really helping to empower the men, especially obviously the dads and whatever they're at in life, really improve their mental health and wellbeing and social relationships and everything above. Dr. Jameson Mercier: We are empowered. Once you begin to see that it's possible, you know, seeing is believing. And as men, you know, listen, you could tell me what you want, but show me, show me if you can show me that it works, you might have a chance. And so not only do I preach this and I teach this, but I strive to be even a role model. I don't like that. But I understand why that word exists. You know, I started to be an example to say, hey, it's okay. You know, do this because I do it too. So I understand I'm not selling you something I don't know. And I recognize that seeing someone who looks like you, talks like you, eat with you, who lives your life, do these things that you've been told historically you cannot do. That's where the empowerment comes from. Dr. Berry: I love it. Again, Lunch and Learn community members, definitely an amazing way to end Men's Health Month. But understanding that Men's Health Month is just a mouth. Like we gotta be about our health 24/7, 12 months out the year, right? So again Dr. Mercier, thank you for really blessing Lunch and Learn community, in a podcast with just such amazing introspection to what you have to deal with and really what men have to deal with and how to get better. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Listen, this has been awesome for me as well. Listen, I could talk this all day. I appreciate the invitation and anytime you want to get out there, man, get out in the woods. You let me know. We'd been saying we gotta Hook Up, man. (Yes.) We’re in the same area. Dr. Berry: We were probably like less than half an hour away. We were really in the same county. (There's no reason why we can't make it happen Dr. B.) All right. You know what? This is what we plan it right on the wax here, right? So I will be camping out. I'm putting it out. I'm going to camp. I'm going to go out and camp. Dr. Jameson Mercier: There's gonna be footage of it too. (Yes.) That's fact once it's documented. Dr. Berry: Yeah. Alright. You have a great day. Thank you again. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Thank you. Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

  Let's Talk about Annual Physical Exam... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry I am here to start off men's health month with an episode on just what to expect during your annual wellness exams. Last week on the empower yourself for better health series, I talked about the biggest reasons why men are dying earlier is that we are just unaware of our health statuses. Our lack of going to the doctor, being educated on what are our biggest killers has attributed to the majority (8/10) top 10 leading causes of death worldwide to all disproportinately affect men greater. In fact it would likely be 9/10 if not for the fact that Alzheimers usually increases with age but we are dying to soon to experience it. The annual physical exam is the most appointment you can make when you see a doctor because it allows the doctors to essentially check you from head to toe on what is going on. It is also where we can discover the most problems so it is extremely important to make sure your friends and family members are listening to this episode so they know what to expect. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and share the episode with a friend or family member. Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Dr. Pierre's Resources - These are some of the tools I use to become successful using social media Links/Resources: Empower Yourself Series - Episode 65 Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community – https://www.drberrypierre.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter – http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod – use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drberrypierre.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod Download Episode 112 Transcript Episode 112 Transcript... Introduction Dr. Berry: And welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry I’m your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of drberrypierre.com, who start the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry as well as the CEO of Pierre Medical Consulting, helping you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy. This week we bring you episode 112, the focuses on men and their wellness exams. And of course if you listen to this on the month of June, it is men's health month. And if you happen to catch my recent live series on Empower Yourself for Better Health where I essentially kind of lay out the fact that men are dying out here because they're not aware of their health and you know, I hope to put a charge in someone's battery or you know, someone's relative, spouse, somebody to like really push the mill, friends and family members that we have to go get their routine checkups. And a few I want to check out drberrypierre.com/youtube where you can check out that most recent episode where I go through the top 10 causes for death in men and I really kind of lay out the law that says like, Hey, we really don't have any excuses to deal with the issues that we're dealing with now. So check if you have the chance. So again, today we're going to be talking about the wellness exam. The annual physical exam. Most people call it and a lot of times is probably the only way you can actually get your significant other, your brother, your father, your cousin. It's usually the only time you can get them to come into the doctor's office, right? Because again, a lot of times I don't see them very often but if I can almost see him one time, it's usually for their wellness exam. So I want you to just take a little step back and take some tips on what to expect for the physical exam and you know, understand why we might like crunch a lot of things in there because sometimes, especially with our male patients, we understand that that the likelihood that they're going to come back at sometimes kind of low. So we want to take advantage of it when we got a chance. Before I want to go I do want to give a shout out to Dr. Coreos who is a friend in the social media space. She actually runs the hashtag somedocs. And reason why I love her is the fact that she is champion physicians to want to get on social media and really take advantage of all of this stuff that it offers. You guys know for a long time I've really been championed that bill that says like, no, we have to get on social media. Our patients are on social media. And if you want to be respected, if you want to be accredited in your patient’s eye. Again, not talking about accredited in the physician’s eye where you know, you have a couple of journal articles and do some poster presentations and you may speak at a medical conference and two. Because for the most part, most of your patients don't care about that, right? One because they don't go to those conferences. They don't read those magazines so they don't even know. But would they do knows that they check their Twitter, they checked their Instagram and they check their Facebook, they checked their YouTube and you're not there. So she's a big part of this promotion and you know, making it okay for your physicians to one get on social media. And another thing I love about her is that with her hashtags somedocs. If you have a blog posts and video posts, whatever, and you feed tag or she will actually retweet it and kind of share it out. So again, thank you Dr. Coreos for that. I'm definitely much appreciated it. Just wanted to make sure I gave her a nice one shout out because she's definitely helped the show grow for the Lunch and Learn community. So it definitely appreciative all our efforts. So getting back, we're talking about episode 112. We’re gonna talk about men. We’re talking about the annual wellness exam. And sit back for great episode and I'll see you guys later. Episode Dr. Berry: Alright guys. So this is episode 112. This is gonna be a solo episode. And it's funny because obviously if you've been rocking with the show for quite some time, you know and that we started out as a solo episode. This is something that we do and I think we do well. And when we made the change over this past season, season three, we really wanted to make a concerted effort to get the best of the best when it comes to topics of discussion, especially for Lunch and Learn community. And I was very fortunate enough to do that. We've got like two months, almost two months in a row of just amazing guests and like I said, definitely happy for all of their expertise and their support and you know, does the knowledge that they kicked over these past couple months. But I am back with a solo episode and it's funny because actually this episode was going to be a group episode as well, but I was unable to connect with this week's guest. His schedule was busy. My schedules is busy so we were unable to connect. But we'll definitely make sure, you know, we get them onto the shows at some time. Right. We'll, it'll happen for sure. But of course this is June. We're talking about men's health and this episode we're talking about the wellness exam, the quote unquote the physical exam that a lot of times it's the only time I can see some of my male patients and it's something that a lot of times as a physician we kind of cherish and we really take advantage of. Because we understand that if I don't order these tests and I don't ask these questions, there's a chance I may not see this patient in front of me for another year. And for most of my patient specialized outpatient medicine, most of my patients, that's exactly was the case. They were like, doc, I love you but I'm not coming to see you more than once a year. So get whatever you need to get, do whatever tests you to do, ask whatever question you need to ask while I'm here cause it ain't happen. And once I leave and I respected it and I love that. And that definitely took advantage. So what I want to do is first, you know, do you listened to the episode 65, right? Empower Yourself for Better Health Series where I talked about how the lack of awareness and our health has been killing us. And like us, I mean men, right? It's been absolutely killing us. And I talked about top 10 causes of death in that episode. So go ahead, check that out on the YouTube page. But when we stress all of these different factors here, a lot of these things can sometimes, and I hate to say it, but a lot of them could be avoided if they would just comfort a checkup and they would just come and see regularly. And that's why we take so much advantage when we do have you in our office. Right? Because we don't know what's the next time you get to come see us. So if you listen, right? If you're able to get that at your male, father, your cousin, your relative, your friend, spouse, whatever. If you were able to get them to the office, right? Like what should they expect when they get there? Right? I think that's always a question at hand, right? It's like this unknown cloud of secrecy, right? Again, they don't go to the doctor often and a lot of times it's out of fear. Right? And a lot of times it's out of this superhuman attitude that men tend to have. Like, I'm not sick, I don't get sick. I'm okay. Like nothing's bothering me. I think one of the most important questions that we'd like to ask, especially in a hospital setting is do you have any medical history? Right? As usually our questions, right? And for my men, I'm usually keen on asking, okay, if you say you have no medical history, what is the last time he saw a doctor? Because it's very easy to have no medical history if you've been avoiding us for five to 10 years. Right? Like if you haven't seen a doctor, and again that five to 10 years, may sound crazy to some of my Lunch and Learn community members. But I know some people who have not seen a doctor in five to 10 years, like that's just the way they're rocking and you know, God bless them, right? God bless them that something's not clicking up on the inside that we don't know about. But let's say you know, it's been five, it's been 10 years, right? And they haven't seen the doctor. And of course when you ask them to have any medical history, they say no cause they really don't because no one's ever told them. Right? But you are able to get this person into your office and you're able to get the quote unquote physical exam, right. Because first of all, let me tell you something. The physical exam, the actual physical part is, you know, the easiest part that probably takes like three to five minutes at most. But what's most important is all of the ancillary questions you're gonna ask your patient in front of you why you got in there, right? So why you got them there, right? And I always like to start head to toe, right? So first and foremost, for people who may not be familiar with the annual exams, right? The annual exam is the doctor's appointment that you go to, it's usually your longest doctor's appointment and not only is it a long the doctor's appointment, It usually has a whole bunch of labs are kind of associated with it, right? So that's usually when your doctor orders lasts for just about everything. And we're going to talk about those labs later. But it's one of those ones where your doctors has to take advantage and get you, you know, while you're there. And they really liked it, you know, strike while it's hot. So they order every test as every question because they aren't sure if they're not going to see you again. Right? And for some people was honest, right? I used to take care of patients who are in their 19, 20, 21-year-old. Like I don't want to see you in my office more than once a year. Right? Cause there's really no reason, especially if you have no medical history, that you should be seeing me that often. Not say that you can come to me if you, you know, you have a cold or you know, get sick or I'm not saying that. But they were just coming just for like a regular checkup and you have no medical history. You're not taking medications. Right. I don't expect you to be seen more often then, you know, once or twice a year. Right. Maybe you might see him every six months just to kind of keep them in the loop, but you're not seeing them any more than that. So you have your male, right? Let's just, we'll call the male Berry. Right? So Berry, you know, finally mustered up the courage and he makes the doctor's appointment, right? And I talked about this before. A lot of times what pushes Berry to making a doctor's appointment is they have a person like Maria screaming in their ear saying, hey, you need to go see the doctor and they finally do it. Or there's something, some sexual dysfunction issues going on. And Berry's frustrated and he's like, no, I gotta go see a doctor. I got to take care of this. Right? I've seen a commercial, I can take a blue pill and I'm good. I need someone to prescribe a blue pill. So those are usually the top two reasons why, you know, men tend to go to the doctor's office, at least in my experience. So you know, you're able to get buried to come to the doctor's office and you know, he's in a waiting room and you know, he finally get stay room and now he's ready. So usually what tends to occur, especially in your annual wellness exam is. Your doctor usually does a head to toe approach, right? In terms of how am I going to assess this person, how am I going to see what's going on? So usually, obviously from head, we start. I always like to check for vision issues, right? As men, because we're so machismo with it, right? Like wearing glasses is like this taboo thing that a lot of us don't like to do unless we absolutely have to do it. And for the most part there's a lot of diseases that are kind of manifesting with vision issues. So a lot of times when you're thinking, we're just asking about your vision and vision history is because we want to make sure that it may not be contributing and contributed to from another disease like high blood pressure or diabetes, which is very common. So we tend to ask for a vision issues. We want to make sure your eyes are checked. If you wear glasses, you want to make sure he got that done. And we want to make sure you're eating well. And again, the eating well is goes along with the bowel habits because we know the older you get, the more likely you are to have these issues with bowel and bowel dysfunction. And if you're one of my 50 year old gentlemen, right, or 45, depending on your race, right? Uh, and really just kind of varies but just kinda in general, you know, its colonoscopy time, right? And again, it's one of those times where we want to make sure the plumbing is working all the way through and through. Because one of the top 10 leading causes of death for men is cancer, right? So colon cancer is something in screen, when you hit that age because it is something that we should be preventing as long as you get a regular checkup. So a colon cancer is a big one, right? So again, I know I skipped down, but like, so we're checked the vision, now we're checking the heart, right? And the heart exam. Not only goals or just you know, just for listening, but you know, we're checking the blood pressure, we're checking your heart rate. Usually when you came in, right? We want to make sure that you don't have this underlying problem that could lead to disastrous effects that rock. Like I tell people all the time, blood pressure is one of those things that your body can deal with and deal with it a lot until it can't. And once it can't, now we're talking about stroke. Now we're talking about heart attack. Now we’re talking about disease in the feet, right? Like you can't feel and you're foot, right? That’s what happens when your blood pressure becomes such a problem that your body says all right, yeah I'm done. And so making sure that your blood pressure's fine, right? Because again, blood pressure is one of those things that you don't really feel symptoms from low blood pressure, especially when it's high, until it's a problem, right? If you're at the point when you're starting to feel symptoms because of blood pressures on the high side, you need to go see your doctor immediately, right? If you're listening to this and you know when your blood pressure is high, like you can feel it. That means I need to go to the doctor because you should not be feeling it. And if you're at the point where you're feeling when your blood pressure's high, that is a problem. So for heart, we're talking about blood pressure, we're talking about a heart rate. I kind of move actually for men, right? And not important for women. Is that the prostate exam? And this is something that I think personally scares men a lot, not only from doing regular checkups, but because of the prostate exam and the digital administration of the endoscopic scope. I think a lot of men dish, you know, shy away from that whatsoever. And it's funny because I've had men who meet the criteria who meet the age. And I said, okay, all right, let me, uh, let me check your prostate, see how that's doing. And they get stage fright, right? Hey, it's so, it's such a terrifying thing for them, right? It's very weird. I in that instance, right. Especially when you know cancer's a leading cause of death, right? All we have to do is this, there's physical exam tests that we do in our office. And of course it was sometimes was hanging out with blood work, right? But in our office, and you still refuse, you know? Yeah. I'm kind of weary of your decision making. So that's definitely something to think about, especially when we're doing about the abdominal pelvic exam is in the men at certain ages need to be checked for prostate, right. In large prostates. Now I've always said this a lot, that a patient will always tell you what's going on before you have to do any tests, right? So most of your patients, if they're going to talk about, you know, in large prostate, they're going to tell you urinary symptoms, complaints, they're gonna punch in that direction. That still doesn't mean you're not supposed to check but they will kind of point you in that direction to make sure you're going in the right way. So talked about the eyes, we talked about the mouth, we talked about the heart, talk about the abdomen, the lungs as well. Lungs is a big one. I know a lot of you may have seen these COPD commercials. Again, COPD top 10 leading causes of death for men. And you may have seen COPD commercials where this random person is sitting by a lake and because of the COPD medication, now they can breathe again and they can go outside again. And that's all great and dandy, but they don't tell you that usually the patient has COPD because they were a smoker and they were smoking for five years, 10 years, 20 years or they always kind of skip that part, right? That's always tell my patients like you can't skip the fact that this person was smoking for 20 years. Right? So it's not surprising that they're going to have some lung issues. So making sure that your lungs are working well, make sure you're not getting shorter breath easy. That is something you want to be very forthcoming with your physician. And for men, I could tell you what tends to happen with men is that we're so secretive, right, that we're so secretive to our family members, to our friends. So that's why we don't go to the doctor in the first place. But you would think once they get to the doctor's office, this, the veil of secrecy would leave? Nope. A lot of them are secret to the end. Like this to the point where you almost have to call them out like, hey, you know what? Maria sent me over here and said you were having issues with your bowels, but yours ain't they're not. Which is true, right? More often than not. If a person, if a male is sent over to the doctor's office by a female relative, a spouse, someone who says like you need to go to the doctor's office, a lot of times they'll, they'll be in the room with you and not because you know, they don't trust you. It's because they don't trust that their partner is actually going to tell them all of the problems. And that happens with men a lot. We tried to internalize everything and you know, try not to seek help and you know, that's where problems definitely will arise because of it. So I think, so we've talked about heart, we talked about lung, I talked about abdominal pelvis. We talked about the eyes making sure eyes are check as well too. And we had Dr. Candrice who talked about skin cancer, a couple of shows back. So again, the importance of, making sure there's no weird moles or rash or anything that your, your family members kind of played off. We don't want that. So making sure, and again, your skin exams, your regular physician can definitely take care of that while they got you here and kind of move. And if you need something else then see to the dermatologist. So skin exams, definitely an important one as well. And I think last but not the least, is it comes some of the blood testing. So what actually gets tested when we go to get our physical exam? So I could tell you this from a slew of tests, right? We don't have to mention the names because the names that are really important is what they're looking for. Some of our testing, right? We'll look for signs of inflammation, we'll look signs for infection. Some of our tests within that will check to see how stable is the person's blood count is? And blood count is a very important a number to think about because if you have this patient who's coming in and they're giving you symptoms concerning that, they may be bleeding somewhere. You want to make sure that blood count is good. And stable. So blood count is definitely something that thinks about. And then we check for your electrolytes. We check for potassium and we check for sodium, we check calcium, chloride. We check for all of these different things here because we want to make sure your electrolyte nutritional status is adequate because if not we have to take care of it. And we'd take a look at the kidneys. Kidneys are important. You'll notice when I stop and mentioned the disease is because it probably hits the top 10 diseases that killed men every year. And kidney disease is definitely in that ball park, right? So kidney disease, and again, this is a routine test. Again, I know my patient Berry's not going to come for another year, so I got to make sure I get all of these tests done while I got him here. So again, we're checking for kidney function, we're checking for electrolytes, we're checking to make sure your blood counts stable, we're checking to make sure you know the signs of inflammation or infection. And then, moving all, we check for the big gun right? We talk about cholesterol. Cholesterol is a big one for us, right? So we want to check your cholesterol, make sure your cholesterol was doing well. And we had previous episodes where we talked about the thoughts of cholesterol and good and bad, and what medications to take. We're not going to do this here. Moving forward, we checking for your diabetes? Diabetes is one of those things. It's one of those, and I wrote a blog post about this. It's a disease I probably not wish would not wish on my enemy, right? Because there's not a system that's not affected by diabetes. And I think what's happening, it's probably our fault, is that when we talk about diabetes, especially in the General Public Forum, a lot of people focus on the sugar aspect. Like, oh yes, my sugar is high, but they don't realize for us, right? When we hear your sugar's high, I hear, wow, you have concerns that you're going to have some vascular damage, right? Because diabetes is an extremely fast schuller disease, right? It affects the heart. It affects the legs, it affects obviously our kidneys, brain too. So every system that can be fed through the blood system, right, which is everything diabetes can effect, especially when it's uncontrolled. So we're checking for that. So again remember and the test that we run lets me know how well you did in the past three months. So not one of these things where I have to be concerned that this like oh maybe a little bit false or you just had some cheeseburger the next day. Like that's not going to necessarily change this testing here and may adjust your cholesterol testing but it's not going to change that you're testing for your diabetes or how severe your diabetes is. I will sometimes check for thyroid as well cause I want to make sure, and again I'm, I'm kind of foreshadowing get right cause I want to make sure all of your hormones are regulated correctly cause we've already seen that when your hormones are not regulated correctly. Because thyroid is out of whack, it doesn't matter if your hormones get back into that normal rhythm. Your thyroid has to be a normal rhythm as well. So thyroid hormones, a big one as well that we checked quite often. We've checked the urinalysis. Your urinalysis is a big one. And it's big one because it's cheap, but it tells us so much information, right? Urinalysis can tell me if you had blood in your urine, right? You're now tell me if you have an infection. Urinalysis can tell me if you have a stone in your kidney. So all of these different things that your urinalysis does a great job and educating us on, and it's a cheap test as a quick test. Definitely, something that I always like to glean information from. Last but not least, and this is the big one, right? Testosterone levels. Because I know, especially for my men, someone's gonna want to know about testosterone, right? They're gonna want to know about, you know, artificial mutation of testosterone when needed. So a testosterone levels. And usually, it's not, it doesn't come with the annual wellness exam. But if you're giving me complaints and concerns that sexual health may be affected. I'm going to do something about it, right? So I will check a testosterone level just to make sure all your hormones are kind of in line. So that's really the big crux of the annual exam for my men and I really try to kinda hit home all of the big take-home parts to really to let you know that it's not a difficult thing to do. It's not a test you need to be scared of. And I think knowing the answer, right? Because I think a lot of times when we talk about disease processes, some people just don't want to know the answer. But when it comes to, you know, taking care of your health and taking care of your wellness, you have to know what the answer is, right? Because we have no choice because it's killing us, right? And I hate to be doom and gloom, but I really want to stress the point, especially when you have this month of June and you know, everyone's hype about men's health month, but I know what's next month comes around, people ain't going to be at hype anymore. So I want to like make sure I'm shouting it from the rooftops, the importance of getting our stuff together men. So again, I want to thank everyone for listening with me - Dr. Berry. We’re back with a solo episode like I missed you guys. But again, I want to thank you guys for all your support, has been absolutely phenomenal in this past season, this season, right? Season three that we're in as far as the support and effort and people downloading and people leaving five-star reviews. You now had a chance leave that five-star review for me and you guys have a great and blessed day. I'm going to see you guys next week and next week we do have a special guest, right? So you don't have to worry about hearing my voice again solo. Next week we do have a special guest. Because like I said, we like special guests. You guys have a great and blessed day.   Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

Hi everyone! This is Connie Sokol, and you're listening to Balance Redefined Radio. I've spent over 20 years teaching people how to redefine what balance really is, meaning a more purposeful and joyful life.   They’ve paid off credit cards, lost weight, organize their homes, and created a meaningful life plan and they've managed their time, changed habits and experience greater success both at work and at home.   So now I decided to take the plunge and help about 100,000 new people who want to redefine balance in their lives. People ask me all the time, “How do I go from an overwhelming and chaotic life to more purpose and organization and joy?”   That's the reason why I'm doing this podcast, to give you trusted answers and create a space where you could find balance. My name is Connie Sokol and welcome to Balance Redefined Radio…   Welcome to Balance Redefined, and I am podcasting right now. If you haven't listened to the other ones, I am podcasting for my friend's basement apartment…   We'd been evacuated for the pole creek fire. We were evacuated on Thursday. It has burned 70,000 acres. It is one of the worst fires, actually the worst fire in Utah history and it is now the number one fire concern in the nation and has been upgraded to federal status and we have all that federal health that's coming in, but it is.   It's threatening homes, has been threatening homes for the last two days and it is. It is out of our hands as to far as far as what actually can be thoroughly done.   All the firefighters are doing all they can. They have been incredible…   Four hundred and 50 firefighters last night at 10,000 are expected today.   They are cutting lines, fuel lines all the way down in certain areas to try to protect the homes. They have been tireless and incredible in what they have done in fighting this fire and the horrible red flag conditions that have been present. High winds, the drought, the underbrush that is just prevalent up in the, in the forest, it's been truly a nightmare, sort of convergence of factors, but they have been incredible and how they move forward.   And I talk in my other podcast, hidden blessings about the organization of things that has been stellar…   That as far as from what I understand, what I have seen and experienced as a person that's been displaced and, and all of those things, it has been so incredible and smooth and clear and understandable and citizens have been patient and kind and helpful. It's been amazing.   So what I want to talk with you about in this particular podcast is lifesaving routines because as I alluded to in my other podcast I talked about in our community and then in my church the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we have this particular...we have women, you know, an organization within our church that's, there's the men that are watched over and stored and their stewardship over and it's called the elders quorum and some other things there.   And then we have the women. It's Relief Society.   And that's what we call it, just because if I throw out those terms then you'll know what I'm talking about. But with this, the, the women... we had spent the last couple of years, and the person that's over that relief society (president) had been over making sure that we had emergency preparedness and I mean thorough and so helpful.   This is like, her lifeblood is doing this. And we were so prepared that as I mentioned, and I'm not gonna go into detail here, but when we had the call to evacuate, I literally walked in, grabbed my emergency binder by vital documents tub and my scrapbooks and boxes and we were out the door.   I had everything I needed, absolutely needed and was ready to go. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.   And I want to talk about that today with those routines, these life saving routines. I want to ask you, and I'm not going to be dramatic about this, I just want to ask you in your soul, if you were told right now, get out. If like I texted my, my leader, “What should I do?” And she said, “Leave. Get out right now.” This is a real deal. What would you do? What would you take?   Who would be the first people you call?   What would be the things that you would need to wear? What would you need to have on hand?   These were things that went through my mind and I remembered this thing that my, this gal that had told me, my Relief Society President, her name's Terry. I remember her saying, “You want to have this prepared because in an emergency your mind is in a fog.”   “...Like it, it does weird things. It sort of shorts out and you'll grab one shoe, but forget the other, like those kinds of things.”   And I thought that's so true. I grabbed my little makeup bag but it didn't have any foundation in it, right? So I mean small, silly thing.   But of course I had an event that night that we had prepared for an interfaith women's event for close to 300 women, and were we going to cancel it?   We were way down south. It didn't affect them. They've made all their sacrifices to be there. Was I going to cancel it? Was I going to cancel my part in?   That was I going to let everybody just dropped that and so all of these things come into play and your mind can't really focus and even though I felt very calm and peaceful and focused, there were things that were dropped that I didn't realize that were dropped because your mind is so focused on survival and making sure that you're surviving.   It's really an incredible experience and that's why I wanted to share this with you in real time because I hope that whatever I share with you today will help you in dealing with whatever crisis you might be dealing with now or especially in the future that you will be prepared because there's that scripture.   “If you are prepared, you shall not fear,” so that you will not fear. I can tell you right now, in three days since Thursday, uh, it's Saturday now, I have not feared. Not once. There had been a few moments of tears where I have thought about the magnitude of what could happen to people in their homes and and things that could occur like this, sorry, but when I don't focus or think about it, so we're moving on.   When I don't think about it, I am good and not once in those feelings it's more of a sadness and a loss, but it is not a fear I have not feared and as a mother, a single mother of children, I have four of them with me. Then I know that that is exactly what they need.   They need a mother who is not afraid and who knows what they're doing...   Now, on the second part, I don't know so much about that, but I need to make sure I show that I know what I'm doing so that they can feel confident, that mom does know and even if not, she's moving forward. That's when you need to give to my children and that's what life saving routines will do for you.   So back to that question, what is it you would take? What is it you would put on and wear and taken that initial moment at that moment, I grabbed a tub, dumped out the laundry and put in clothes for each of us.   Just a quick underwear and shirt, pants, whatever. Dress, and through in wipes, and that little bag of makeup, and the dress that I knew I'd need to wear for that Reboot Event it was called “You got this,” reboot event, and shoes, a curling iron and just things that I knew we'd need for right now because it was just pre-evacuation status.   It was for right now that I knew that we needed. Now I didn't know that we weren't gonna be able to go back. Right. But I knew that we had everything we needed to function for that day and for the next couple of days after I had it in the car and I could get it at the store.   So I encourage you to consider, as I'm talking today, write down some notes of things that you say, “You know what? This is what I think I would need to bring her. I would need to do, or I would need to call or whatever.”   Jot these things down. Don't worry about having it in a beautiful plan where it's all laminated.   Don't worry about that. Just write things down that come to mind and you can go back and organize your thoughts later. The main thing I want to share with you before I share a couple of these thoughts is that it works.   I was given a real view and lens and understanding that this works…   What I teach to women and balance redefined women and men, what I teach to families, what I live, what my community did and my church did for being able to do these emergency preparedness things. They all worked.   Sometimes you're doing this stuff and you're thinking, oh, it's a pain and I'm doing food storage.   Like how exciting is that? Not.   And you're doing carpool. You're doing all these things. You got busy lives, right, and you're thinking, I'll get to that. I'll get to that. It all matters and it all works.   Even if I didn't use my exact emergency tubs that I used for, if we had to evacuate and I needed the meals and I did whatever, I still had those file drawers in my mind and soul and I could retrieve whatever pieces I needed in the moment to do the things that needed to be done with clarity, with joy, with confidence, with energy.   So I want you to know that this works. It cemented for me that what I've been practicing, what I've been teaching and what people have been teaching me worked. So let me share a couple of those things.   The two main categories that I'm doing right now are. The first thing is predictable rituals.   That's what I call them now. When I say rituals, I’m on not talking about some kind of a weird thing that you're doing, you know, on some sacrificial thing. I'm not talking about that.   I'm talking about these daily practices that we put into our lives, so maybe I'll call it predictable practices.   That's probably a little bit more across the board feeling and it's not in having this sort of vision in your mind that I don't want, so these predictable practices are those things that your children will be able to take and your, your spouse, your extended family members will be able to take heart in and feel confident in because these are things that you're doing on a daily basis.   These are things that are rhythms in your life, rhythms that they, that happened when they get up in the morning, it's good morning, loves they come down and there's some breakfast, wait out on the counter. Or even if it's a breakfast burrito in the microwave, it's just a predictable practice.   They know we have in our home, I have these things that we make, we call them scripture strips and so we have scriptures from different scripture, um, cannons and we have them on strips, colorful yellow, golden strips, and we put them in a cookie jar.   And then every morning we pull a scripture stripped before they go to school and we say, okay, let's read the scripture and what does that mean?   And they cannot say Jesus loves us because that's all they would say everyday, so they have to actually get a thought out of that and wow, first thing in the morning, it sets their whole mindset on that spiritual plane and opens that up for them to have any kind of spiritual download during the day.   So not that they necessarily do or they even think that they do, but I as a mom, belief they do. So that makes me a stellar mom. So that's why we do it. So again, that's a predictable practice. Then we have family, we have the family prayer in the morning before they leave.   We have family prayer at night. We do this before our meals. These are predictable practices. We have scripture at night that we listened to. Now I have to tell you, last fall, when I talked with my kids, I said, “What is a way that we can study scripture? Because I know, I know studying scripture matters. I know it creates a protection to us spiritually and even temporarily, I know that it creates this spiritual force that opens us up to blessings and protects us from certain things. I know that it does that no matter who's reading it.”   And so I know that it's important, but, you know, try to get your kids excited about scripture. Reading okay, right?   I've been doing this for years and we've like about condo fisticuffs and scripture reading, right?   That, I mean, well, you know, wars are in the Bible, so there you are. But anyway, so I said, “Okay, family, what do we want to do? How do we want to do this?” And we said, “Let's listen to scripture at night.”   Now in my mind I'm thinking, “How loser is that?” Like we're just laying there listening to scripture, you know, there are tuning out, you know, they're not really listening. Most of the time they're getting one thought and they're like, okay, put that in my back pocket in case mom asks, but we did it. And do you know the Canon of scripture that we're reading? We're almost done.   It's September. It's almost been a year and we're almost done with that Canon of scripture just by reading it. I mean listening to it at night, what I thought was so lame when guess what?   We added on listening at the fire pit outside and we added on being able to have a yummy herbal tea and having a snack or cuddling on the bed. So we've added these things.   Again, it's been a predictable practice. Doesn't mean we've done it perfectly, but we've done it. I would say my, you know, I'm a b plus or so about 80 to 90 percent of the time and I have to tell you these things.   Oh, the other two that I wanted to share was a family council. We have family council, we have family night on Monday and we have family councils especially about like our schedule for the week or about things that were going to do trips.   We're going to take what we want to do for the weekend when different things come to us are unexpected. I say KC Family Council and we get the family by and I help them to get their opinions, want to know what they think is the best way to do something and then move forward.   So family council and the last thing was gratitude…   We emphasize gratitude and our home, and I'll tell you, sometimes it's through clenched teeth.   I'm so grateful that you picked up your room even though your bathroom looks like something's going to come out of the toilet. Right? I've tried to practice gratitude and try to help them to say it in a kind way like, “Oh, if you were saying that your sister is total annoying and frustrating, maybe you could say, wow, she's not being as helpful today as she could be.” Right?   And you know how well that's gone over...   Like it's not like they jump up and there they're carrying a basket of daffodils to each other, but trying to be practicing gratitude. Okay, so predictable practices.   I have to tell you, this works. This works in this crisis. I have to tell you, we've been displaced.   We went to a friend's house for a couple of hours and then we went to our friend's house that we're at now.   We're in podcasting and this tripod is sitting on top of my son's Lego box. As I'm sitting on her bed. You can hear lawnmowers outside... we are, we are displaced. And yet we are doing these predictable practices.   We had family council last night. We had, we'd been having family, scripture and listening, and it's been soothing and comforting.   In fact, the place we chose last night happened to be this beautiful section of scripture that was just perfect of the savior actually surrounding the children with this protective fire.   Isn't that incredible? Like the chances of that are, you know, unreal…   But it was, it was amazing to be able to go through that and we all felt comforted and we even had a community united prayer last night at 8:00. I mean, that's these practices that are working.   We've talked about gratitude. We have family council about what we want to do with this, where we're staying and we don't know how long we're gonna stay.   And so we had a family council and said, “You know what, let's make it our home. Let's go to Walmart today and let's go get some stuff and we'll just get some plants, will get some cute little things and just a few. Just things that make us feel like we're at home and let's make our home where we are.”   These are predictable practices. This has made all the difference. It has kept us calm. It has kept us focused...   It is kept as in tune with God and remember, whatever that is for you, higher power, the universe, whatever. It's kept us in tune and open to receiving his gifts and his love.   So that's predictable practices. What are the predictable practices in your life, in your family's life?   What are those that your children can count on when trouble comes, because now is the time to do them. When the skies are clear, when there isn't smoke, literally billowing over a mountain range. When the skies are clear, is that time for you to do it? Now we know that fire is still burning. We know it's burned. Seventy thousand acres.   We know we're still not in our home and we don't know if we'll ever be able to go back, but we have faith. We have faith that we will. We have faith that those firefighters are doing all they can.   We have faith that we can pray and there's nothing more we can do. There's nothing they want us to do to go down and help so we can pray and I gotta tell you...   I have another podcast that talks about what happened at that reboot event and why I chose to go there and the blessings that came out of that, but I have to tell you the power of prayer is real and so this predictable practice gives my kids and myself as a life tool belt to be able to turn to during these moments and whatever that is for you. My kids are going to have…   One of them is getting ready to leave home. She's already had an experience of being out on her own for the last three months. She was nannying in France and she had to turn to prayer and to these spiritual practices that she knew and have been using in our family, so these predictable practices are real and they work, so write down three to five predictable practices that you think will be key in your family and they don't even have to be quote unquote, spiritual.   I wake my children in a joyful, happy matter every morning. I do...   This is something that I've made a promise that I will greet them with joy and love. After that, all bets are off, but I greet them with joy and love and how do I get responded to have a more minutes. I'm so tired, right? It doesn't matter.   I greet them with joy and love, and then after that, it's their choice how they're going to face today, so predictable practices, three to five. What are those things that you can feel are gonna need to be put into play in your family that will also help you through a crisis?   The second piece of this is regular routines. This is so crucial. This is a little different than predictable practices. Those are more of those touchy feely, got to have that spiritual, intuitive feeling, groundedness, right?   Regular routines are the day to day pragmatic things. These are the things that need to happen. I've got a snack laid out for them when they come home from school now, not every single day, and it's not like it's out on pinterest. Right? It's not like that.   Put a little cheese and crackers and some grapes. Okay, we're good. Or some yummy quito cookies or something like that. It's not like I have this big gourmet fair, but they have a predictable routine and they know I'm going to get a download of their day. Okay.   Your life may be different. Maybe you work full time right, and you're not there. That's fine. Get rid of the guilt and set up a regular routine that you can say, this is how this flows so that they know when you're going to be there and how it's gonna roll.   So the thing that struck me with this regular routines, it was so tender I cannot even express to you...   So here we've gone and stopped at a friends house just to sort of re retool and have a few hours and then we came here to my friend's basement apartment, which the space, I swear it was left open for us because she'd been looking for someone to be in here and haven't found someone yet and we're able to just come right in.   So it's, you know, it's in one of these beautiful older homes in Provo.   So we're down in the basement and it's one of those, it's like she has a, she has a daybed, kind of like a fold out couch kind of thing and then she has a bed in the other room but it's a little bit minimal, you know, as far as like actual furnishings and things and she hasn't really moved forward on it.   So it's not like it's all like incredibly, you know, decked out and things like that.   But it is lovely. And she has, she goes, come, I've got beds, I got linens, I've got, I've got whatever you need. Got Towels. So we come in here and we were not prepared for the sweetness.   That was awaiting as we come in at this time, it's Friday, that's yesterday and it's September 14th and it's my daughter's birthday, so my 18 year old turned 19 during this whole melee. Right. In fact when it hit midnight from the Thursday, the Friday, her and I were still up and we were the only one's awake and I had a cupcake from the event, the reboot event that you got this reboot and I had brought up a couple of cupcakes for the kids up to the room and I had one cupcake left and so she pulled up on her phone.   My daughter pulled up a candle that was lit on the phone and she put it right by the cupcake and I sang happy birthday...   To her it was the most tender experience…   I posted about it on Instagram, but it was the most tender experience. So here it's her birthday. Right. But it's kind of getting shoved back in a little bit at this melee.   So we go to this friend's house, then we come to here to this basement apartment. We walk in...It's at night. What's time was it like...I don't know what 8:39 at night. We're tired. I haven't showered. I, I'm really needing to just like get everybody set and get them where they need to be in trying to keep all happy and positive…   We walk in and this good woman, we come into this basement apartment and she has the bed is made up like Ikea. I'm going to post pictures of it with the little rose pillows, and the turn down comforters, and we go into the kitchen, and we opened the fridge, and she has snacks, and yogurts, and drinks, and goldfish, and bottled water, and milk.   And then we look on the counter and she set out breakfast items and paper plates and there's cops in their spoons. She did, I mentioned is a mother of nine.   She's also going to school and it isn't until later that I found out that she has an assignment that she didn't know it was due by midnight and it's like by now it's like 9:30 or something at night.   And she is talking to me like she's got all the time in the world!   We go into the other rooms. She has got the bathroom set up beautifully. We go into the hallway and she's got a little “Happy Birthday.” You know those little letters that say happy birthday hanging on the wall. I literally was almost in tears. Can I tell you that is a regular routine? She set up our home. That is what I'm talking about.   A routine. What are the routines that make your home run like a home? We came in, we had bathroom things, we had towels, we had a place to sleep. She even had a little pad and a sleeping bag and a steamed Lightening McQueen pillow for my six year old son all set to go.   It fit all of us…   Everything that could have been considered was considered for our comfort. She had created a working home and she said it took her only about an hour. I'm like an hour. I was dying. That's an hour. She could have been doing her stuff. And she said, “I did it with a cheerful heart.”   She said, “I considered it a joy.” Isn't that so her? I, I just, I can't wait. I'm going to have to interview her. You got to meet this woman, so I just want you to know this is what we came and were greeted with.   She had set up our home so quickly that we were able to then put our stuff away and get ready for our predictable practices our scripture, our prayer... I'm getting notices the whole time on the fire and I'm able to just move through it because all of these things are set.   So think in your mind, “What are some of the regular routines?”   Food, how do you do your groceries so that there's food in the house and there's things for this kind of a situation where you would have paper plates, you'd have extra in your pantry. Doesn't mean you have to have a huge pantry. Doesn't mean you have to have this extensive food storage, but what's in your food pantry?   You don't think that I'm writing notes on this. I have these things in my house, but now I know when someone is a refugee, these are some of the things that they need right off the bat.   When you're in crisis, these are some of the things you're going to need. How can you set up your home quickly? You need a space for the bathroom stuff.   You need a space for being able to have the toothbrushes and the toothpaste, the whatever you need for your evening, like taking off your, your makeup or whatever. Wipes. Definitely need wipes.   You need a place for the food and the kitchen. We didn't have a dining room table or anything in here and she said, wait a second, I've got this old table out in the hallway, so are in this closet.   So we went to the closet and yet was an old card like flip table thing, you know, and she's like the top. It was kind of ripped the melamine or whatever it was was ripped and she's like, I'll get a table cloth.   We set that table up with this cute little checkered cloth.   Boom. Four chairs done for folding chairs.   Done are eating space is set up, so now we have a wash cleaning space, we have a food space in the kitchen, we've got food now we have our sleeping spaces, we've got those set up and now we have our eating space together as a family.   So can you see these routines? How predictable this is because guess what those regular routines are, where do you eat and when? When do you shower? When do you bathe? When do you grocery shop? When do you do your laundry? When do you do your cleaning as a family, where do they keep their things?   All of those regular routines matter and having a routine, and I'm loving this because I teach women how to do this simply and easily to do the cleaning, the deep clean, the daily do's, how to do their laundry quickly and streamline it, how to do their, their organizing of their bills and things like that and streamline it.   How to make it so it's total so you can take it as you go, oh my goodness, am I having such a validation of the things that I've been teaching women for 20 years and how important this is because in a crisis, it doesn't matter if you're being evacuated or if you're staying at home and you're just experiencing a health crisis or something.   You are able to in that moment, recreate your home environment wherever you are, and that's what we did in the most beautiful thing to close this up. This morning I woke up and I walked out into the other room where the kids were sleeping and right there on that makeshift table with that tablecloth.   My daughter had set up for the table ready for breakfast. Was that the cutest thing? We watched these scripts for videos and we watched one on ruth and it.   It was showing depicting when ruth left with her mother in Law Naomi and how she went with her and they went into Satan's old kind of rundown home. That used to be.   I was imagining it used to be their home, but they went in at night and it was just kind of a sort of a scriptural depiction of what it could be like and so ruth has Naomi go to sleep because Naomi's elderly and ruth works through the night to clean and tidy this, this really poverty stricken home.   There's hardly anything there, but she makes it all nice and pretty for when Ruth and Naomi wakes up in the morning and I looked at this table that was set up for breakfast and I'll post it on social media and she even put a little block that I got at the reboot event that you got this women Reba reboot.   We got a little block, the three founders from one of the founders, mothers that said, you got this. She had found it at a bookstore and so I had thrown that into the tub to take with us when we left the hotel and she put that little block on the table.   So I stood there staring at this beautifully made up table with paper plates and spoons and little napkins in the paper.   The plastic cups and this little block at this at the top of the table that said, you got this beautiful. That's regular routines. That is the power of my friends have these life saving routines. It creates calm, it creates order. It creates peace. It creates continuity. It creates security.   It creates regular rhythms that children and adults can rely on so that their energy can be used for dealing with whatever comes emotionally and whatever may come physically that is unexpected.   So I implore you to write down what are three to five of those predictable practices and what are three to five of those regular routines that you can get working to a b plus degree in your home right now to create without a crisis.   That calm assurance, confidence and and consistency. All right.   Stay tuned for more and have more podcasts and things I'm learning from this Pole Creek Fire experience and hopefully you're learning some great things to remember. You got this with Balance Redefined. You got it. Thanks for listening and remember to rate and subscribe. And if you are feeling the need for real balance in your life, get your free five step life plan, and get started today! Just go to conniesokol.com/download.

Do you know your fabricator? Meet David Carmody, Division Manager and CID+ at San Diego PCB Design. As a service bureau, San Diego PCB works on a variety of PCB design projects. Learn why David says, “You gotta know who you’re fabbing with” and how he is using DFM Reports to help customers integrate design and assembly in this episode of The OnTrack Podcast. Show Highlights: Memorable designs in telecom space and the development board for Dragon II, a SpaceX project, for the capsule they hope to take to Mars Package on packages, dropping the DDR - removing the burden on the designer Palomar advisory program - student programs for learning PCB design San Diego PCB acquired by Milwaukee Electronics, EMS and Engineering Services DFM report - a “stoplight report” for customers before starting build - customers love it and it fixes issues proactively especially with packaging A lot of engineers don’t know the manufacturing side and DFM reports can help with this “You gotta know who you’re fabbing with”  Will additive manufacturing processes be the answer? The business model remains to be seen. 3D printing - you can’t print copper (yet) Altium User Groups - have Altium in the title but we don’t run them! We’d love to support. Altium User Group in San Diego is very active and supportive. Advice from a Pro: Always keep learning, it will keep you fresh and make work more fun. PCB design isn’t the only practice David has mastered - he’s a martial artist too Links and Resources: David Carmody on Linkedin San Diego Altium Users Group Website San Diego PCB Milwaukee Electronics Tecate, NM Manufacturing Facility   Hi everyone this is Judy Warner with Altium’s OnTrack podcast - welcome back. Once again I have another incredible guest to speak with us today, but before we get started please follow me and connect with me on LinkedIn. I try to share a lot of things relative to engineering and PCB design and on Twitter I'm @AltiumJudy and Altium is on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and if you'd please subscribe and give us some comments so we know what you'd like to hear more about that would be great. So today again we have a great guest which is David Carmody of San Diego PCB David has a new title now: he is the division manager and he also has a CID. So David, welcome and thank you for joining me here at Altium today. So, we've known each other for a little while and I've had the benefit of being over at San Diego PCB and looking over your shoulder to some pretty wild complicated designs. So tell us a little bit about your day-to-day from the perspective of design bureaus and the kind of work that you see? Okay, we do get a lot of different designs, a bunch of varied designs, so we see a lot of military application, we see a lot of new technology - wearable technologies and things like that as well; it is pretty much all over the map though. I mean we get a little bit of anything and everything just because of the the nature of the service entity. A lot of the more upscale - so to speak -designs are the real nanotechnology sort of stuff where we're cramming a ton of the little parts into a board that's less than a half square inch total in size, or we're packing everything into a big housing that has to get heat out somehow because, I mean, we're sending up high output micro processors into into space and there is no airflow so we need to get the heat out in other ways. So there's a lot of that sort of stuff that we do get to see and and play with and and learn from as well. I think San Diego is kind of a neat place to work too because there is a lot of Defense here and there's also call comments and telecoms, and even in our local area, although I'm sure you see work from all over the country? We do we also have kind of some neat things right here in our own backyard. Oh yeah. So across that variety what would you say some of your more memorable designs would be? I was gonna say we do have have some telecom stuff that's gone on and those are those are fun boards just because they've got big processors on them and lots of high-speed lines, things like that. Most memorable, for me personally, would probably be a SpaceX design. I was able to design the development board for the Dragon 2. Oh my gosh!we’re not worthy! Do you mean the dragon heavy that they just launched - the second Falcon that ever went? Yeah the the Dragon 2 which is the capsule that they hope to take to Mars one day. Oh so that that one! Yeah.  I did the development board for that so it's just basically a big processor board with a lot of RF communications on it and things like that and they're breaking out all the other boards from that, and that was a fun project. I got to be a part of that was really cool. Yes, I sold some R4s to them and got to go through that facility a few times so I'm like a weirdo SpaceX geek and then we also sponsor the hyperloop pod teams for universities. So Ben that's helping us here with recording this; he and I got to go up and hang out at SpaceX and see them do that. I saw some of those pictures. So sorry for being so weird but I’m a kinda SpaceX geek. Yes, it’s been fun. We do have a couple of space contracts we've worked directly with NASA and MIT and also with Space Micro so, we've definitely learned our way around the Class 3A specifications and we know that inside and out. Not easy, really dense stuff. So you talked a little bit about the nanotechnology, is that where you sort of see the bleeding edge going? What are the the most challenging designs? I was gonna say the packaging is actually changing quite a bit, we're seeing some things that the packaging is doing that's well, quite frankly, I'm not terribly happy with because it takes away some of our place - but things like package-on packages is coming around. That's really cool technology, I mean, you put down the DSP or the PGA - whatever it happens to be - and then you can drop the DDR right on top of it. There's nothing for us to do; it's purely an assembly process, if that. Wow. So that stuff is definitely interesting and removing a burden, so to speak, on the designer but yeah, then the package size itself is just getting smaller and smaller. We're being pushed into HDI technology more and more often. 0.3 millimeter BGAs are pretty common, 0.4s are all over the place now. I mean even big ones. So the 0.3 three millimeter BGA's are getting common. I've been able to work on things as small as 0.15 millimeter though. So it was a flip chip sort of design where we're pushing the envelope on that thing so it was experimental, and things like that. I don't think they actually ever built it was costly, that whole get up then but that's that the trend we're seeing. Just everyone's pushing the package design more and more all the time. Something I noticed I took a peek at, even though I've known you for a while - I took a peek at your LinkedIn profile. I don't know that I'd ever done that and I like to ask people a lot, how'd you get into this industry? Because most of us didn't start out this way, but we ended up here. So did you start out there? I notice you took courses at Palomar College which is local here, and I don't know if they still do, but they used to have PCB design courses? That they do I'm actually on the Palomar Advisory Committee right now and we're helping to restructure some of that stuff and try to join up a little bit more, their student base through there. They've got a pretty good offering right now to make it better but yeah it's still active and it's it's one of the few places that you can really go for formal education. So it's good that they're there keeping it alive, and not just keeping it alive but updating it. Right, and that's kind of where you started out was it not? It was. Or did you just join them recently as part of the Advisory Committee, or did you start learning design there? I did technically start learning some design there but it was an accident really. [Laughter] See, my point is, we didn't do this on purpose. No absolutely not. Basically I had gone through their program and really gravitated - back then at least - 3d was just emerging. It was all in AutoCAD, there was no such thing as SolidWorks, it was just coming around. So I ended up jumping into AutoCAD 3d mechanical sort of stuff and and did my degree on that and then got on to nothing but waiting list after waiting list. So at that point I was talking to a guy that I was working with, he goes: call my brother in law, he does something in computers. And I talked to this guy, he was a PCB designer at Intel - I'm actually working with him now, we recently hired him, but yeah he's working out in our Arizona office but he gave me some excellent time; never actually met him face to face at the time but he gave me some phone time and told me what to look for, and what this industry had to offer and gave me a couple of places to go after. And I went after both - I ended up getting an offer from both of them, but I liked the smaller business so I took that side of things and spent 12 years back at an ‘unnamed company’ as the Design Manager. Laughter, well not as awesome as Sandy Opie… Well I don't know, it hasn't been a year yet, so San Diego PCB was acquired actually by Milwaukee Electronics right. Yes it’s been about a year and four months now, time flies. So Milwaukee is a really capable EMS shop up in-  remind me? It's Milwaukee. Oh is it Milwaukee! Yes, their primary branch is in Milwaukee - okay this confuses everyone - because we have multiple brands out there now. So our Milwaukee electronics brand has most of our engineering services and the EMS as well there. Up in Canby, Portland Oregon, now that's where we have Screaming Circuits - that is our quick term prototype house and there is also EMS there as well. Most people don't know that but the factory shares the floor for that and then we also have - actually it's also called Milwaukee Electronics - despite that, it's in Tecate Mexico but they've got a huge building down there and they're there literally clawing the mountain out from being behind this building. Right I've seen photos of it, it's really quite lovely, at least the photos are, it looks really modern. It's a very impressive facility. I was able to visit there and I had seen pictures of it when the shop floor was was only 50% filled; that place is full and like I said they're calling out the mountain now behind them, so that they can add on and I think gain about 30% more square footage. Growing like crazy. How has that been, that acquisition, for your customers and for you, there's obviously synergy there between the two firms so how has that been for you? The two companies, the acquisition itself was great, Milwaukee Electronics is a fantastic company to work for. I really enjoy all the people that are there. The synergy has taken some time to get things rolling, but I'm starting to see a little bit of a snowball effect and so we're starting to pick up some momentum to where Screaming Circuits is sending us customers back and we're sending them customers in and we're starting to get a collaborative database of the customers going right now, so that we can take a more active role on that and and really sell to both sides. There's been a little bit of crossover, but like I said, it took probably six months before I saw even the first crossover and right then another one happened, and then another one, but now we're up to where we're getting about at least one customer a week or something like that, that's doing some sort of crossover. so it's definitely building up speed. But it's still going to take a little bit more time. So since our listeners and watchers here will are mostly engineers and PCB designers, what do you think the benefit is to collaborating design to EMS - what are the benefits you think that occur there? When you're collaborating, one of the biggest things that's coming out right now, is basically  DFM report that we've been doing, it's something that I've been doing for years. Say a customer has their own design team, they want me to be a second set of eyes - something like that. I'll go through the design either on a cursory level if you just want me to look at DFM/DFA sort of issues. Do you want me to look at your circuits, do you want me to look at this whole thing - make sure that you placed it correctly? I coined that a ‘stoplight report’ a long time ago, and basically it's just - we give a nice little green note if it's informative only: this looks good it was done right, give a yellow note if, hey you might want to look into this, you might have some potential issues or, hey this part’s hanging off the board edge you're gonna knock it off, this needs a correction before it goes out - and those are obviously the red items - so customers seem to love that. I mean it's really easy, real clear-cut. They can kind of skim through it, hit the items that they want and that is really building up some speed right now with with a few customers because they've had an internal source for a long time. They've been using Screaming Circuits forever, but Screaming Circuits is going: okay you're going into bigger yields, you need to fix these sorts of items - let's fix them ahead of time and that's what we're being utilized to do. That sounds absolutely incredible especially now, because in the marketplace so many engineers are laying out their own boards. They may or may not have time or access to spend a lot of time with their fabricators our assembler, so I think to have that sort of oversight would be very welcome. I don't know if that's what's driving it or just having a second set of eyes what do you think? Probably a bit of both, I mean the engineers obviously get EMI and and EM theory, they do that really well, so they they always lay out the board well for that. But they aren't necessarily the best packagers, most PCB designers are puzzlers so, we do the packaging portion real well that's what we like to play with. But if you’re a good PCB designer you're going to know the EM side and you're also going to know the manufacturing side. A lot of the engineers don't know that, so they don't really look at that. I mean, I've been given boards that were completely routed and they said: rip out all the routing because this guy did it with 6mm vias with a 12mm pad on an 80mm  thick board and so, it's just wrong all the way around. And placement wasn't bad on that… But the aspect ratio is the killer. -and he used decent trace widths, but I mean, the most problematic piece of the board, and he killed it. And like it's a good thing that companies like Altium and other EDA companies make such powerful, great software - but there's no place in the software that says: no, stop dummy,   you can run DRCs or whatever, but it won't necessarily flag it for for DFM if your aspect ratio is off or whatever, unless you've turned those settings on or off I can imagine right? Yes but you can still improperly program DRCs too, you can say: hey I want 1mm holes on this board… I've heard you and Mike Creeden say that a design tool is only as good as the designer.    -yeah you absolutely need that and I mean, someday in the future would it be great to see the tools incorporate that sort of stuff? Yes, but at the same time you’ve got to know how your fab works too… And you don't want to limit yourself either because you could potentially create self-limiting things that are really irritating... -oh yeah. So I think we're gonna just keep giving you powerful tools and you guys have to work it out. Yeah I mean, we can just zoom up and zoom up and, hey that via looks plenty big enough to me, I could put my fist through it, but not in reality. The packaging thing that I was referring to earlier that is just starting to drive this industry just because of big 0.4 millimeter pitch BGA. I'm working with a fabricator that can't quite do the the latest and greatest and all of a sudden that pattern starts to become a challenge that’s almost impossible to break out. Right yeah I don't know where this train’s going… Yup I don't know - it will stop somewhere at some point… I know, I know, except it seems like we just keep creating some breakthrough so I'm keeping my eye on things like additive manufacturing, whatever we could do it 1mm, controlled trace and pull it off but there's no clear front-runner. Yeah, the additive processes are very interesting, haven't seen anyone really start pulling off a business model out of it. The 3d printing technologies is also very interesting but you can't print copper unfortunately, so they can't - yet at least - so there's some major hurdles there too that they have to go through. It'll be interesting. Well I wanted to shift gears a little bit because you, along with your colleague Randy Clemens here in San Diego, run a really solid Altium user group here and for those listeners that don't know this, Altium User Groups, they have our name in the title but we don't run them - they're completely run by the users, for the users they're very democratic and we just lend support and it's something that we've been talking a lot about here, is that we would like to grow the user community and help people launch groups. So can you give us a little bit of background and give us the do's and don'ts maybe, if people that are thinking about starting a local users group from what things have worked, when things maybe haven't worked, and how do we get more people to launch user groups? Just sign up - just for a little background on that - there was a user group that was here for quite a while that was run by Bill Brooks and it had some traction, it was running for quite a while and then either the community or whatever, started to kind of drop off a little bit. Randy and I saw that as a bad thing basically, and we talked to Altium, talked to a few people here, and then put together a general terms for the the group. Randy has always done Google boards, the blog and stuff, so he's very good at that, he's got a pretty major Altium tutorial board actually that's out there. So he took some of that and ported it over and turned it into a San Diego Altium User Group Board, you can just google that: San Diego Altium User Group and you'll find his board. If you sign up you'll get meeting invites so it's really that easy. All of our IP, as it were, is all up there and and I mean fully freely distributable so anyone can go ahead and take that as a template and start porting it over. Randy would probably help if anyone asked to set up or clone a board but Altim is really great on this thing, they're really helping us out, they help promote it you guys are actually doing lunches for us and all of that, so we really, really appreciate all that support. Lunch is a good way to get people out - just feed them and they will come. Exactly, you feed them and they show up. So we were restarting the group, it had a little bit of a slow start and it's kind of typical. I think we had all of three people show up once plus the the huge group of Altium group and San Diego PCB group because we host the location but no I mean our last last attendance was in the 30s somewhere, so it's it's doing real well now. What do you think the benefits are to the users that participate regularly? One of the big things is we always bring Chris Carlson out for new updates and stuff so we can see things as they're coming out. He gave us a wonderful tutorial on 18 not long ago, really to help us all dive into it as as the interphase changed. I thought Randy was gonna eat us alive - he came out he's like yeah bring him - he had a slide deck going, and ‘what about this?’  God bless Chris Carlson, our senior FAE, he addressed most of those things and just said, no Randy we just moved it over here, it's just over there and we tackle most of it. But what I really appreciate is that Chris actually took four things back to our R&D team, and I think that kind of real-time feedback, it helps us make better tools right? And if we make better tools we sell more software, it's not rocket science right? Right and we're happier designers… Right your’e happier and you’re productive and so I think it's a win-win and I think Altium is doing a good job culturally. So say you were in... I don't know... New Hampshire okay, and you knew there was a pretty good-sized design community what would you say the first steps would be to get something going? First of all, probably to clone that board that we've already got… And we will share this, by the way, in the show notes and we'll share that if you want to go take a look at it, because Randy has done a good job of kind of making a charter, it would be a good model to share. -so it's a fairly basic charter but yeah, clone that board, start marketing it against that, call Altium… Me, call me I will help you. -so get them to put it out in a newsletter and a blog or something along those lines so you can start that foot traffic and then invite your buddies, invite your friends and get them to do the same. I interrupted you there, so you said that Chris came out and you got to see the latest and greatest, Chris did a good thing on showing you AD18 - what other kind of benefits do you think the users see over time? I mean we've already kind of hit on the the dynamic feedback and that's obviously great information, but just the user-to-user help is always nice too. I mean I've had people come in with a laptop and and open it up and go, look I'm struggling over here, what the heck do I need to do? What rule do I need to write to make this thing work right? And we can just basically rub shoulders and get things moving and get a workaround if it needs it just to move it along. Well I've been really impressed since I've been down here for about a year now and just seeing the group it's just very active and it seems like a really healthy thing and yeah all I get to do, is use my card and buy you guys lunch and if you want a speaker we’ll send one, if you don't want one we won't interfere so I think that user-to-user and that you guys really get to own it, is sort of a powerful model because it's not like we're going to come down and spring a free sales pitch... Yeah well, Altium doesn't go in they're not salesy. Yeah but we try actually, not to do it. No, it's been fantastic for that. Well I wanted to bring this up because you and Randy spoke at AltiumLive and Randy took a little part of his time speaking to talk about the Altium user groups and I was so surprised! I'm like, well you can spend your time talking about that if you want Randy, but I didn't think there would be that much interest - but I happened to pop in the back door just to see how it was going and people were really engaged and then people came and talked to me after. I think there's kind of a hunger to do it. I'm just wondering... I just wanted you to share with our listeners, if people did want to do it they would see, oh here's some steps to take because I don't know, though, that maybe we've done a really good job of advertising it because we do want to stay out of it, we want to contribute but not inserting ourselves into an organic user’s group. So, thanks for sharing that part. Hm-mm yeah, for the AltiumLive, Lawrence Romine asked Randy to do a little bit of a spiel on that and yeah, there were a lot of people from LA that sounded like they were going to be starting their own, or a couple of them, depending on the demographics or Geographics up there and then there were quite a few out of state as well that that sounded like they wanted to start one. I went to one in Utah, which I guess has been going on for a while. So, I got connected with someone actually at AltiumLive and we ended up connecting and there was like 80 people there to see Ben Jordan talk about AD18, I'm like okay, Wow! 80 - it was huge, but I think that group has been very active and been around for a long time so it wasn't like a new thing and they actually come from Salt Lake and south of there, so it was almost like two combined groups. So anyways, thank you for sharing about that. Any final thoughts? Nothing that I can think of right off the top of my head. Well thank you so much for coming in today… -Thank you You’re a good sport and we really appreciate you in San Diego PCB and thank you for sharing. Oh one thing I wanted to ask you was because the upper-end (age-wise) is starting to kind of age out in the industry and we're getting new ones coming in, what is one - since you're sort of a veteran designer - what is say, one or two pieces of advice that you would give to a young designer? The number one thing I would say is, never stop learning. I mean I got into a rut at one point where I wasn't learning I couldn't stand up on the the current trends, things like that, and that job got to be a drag, it really did because it's - overall - we did the same thing over and over all the time. It's very repetitive, but if you're standing up on the latest trends you always have something else to reach at and something else to go after. Always have the latest way to solve something too, so it just makes the job overall a breeze; makes it a lot easier to do day-to-day and keeps it fun and interesting. Very good. Okay, last question: I said that was the last one but I like my very last, last question - I call this part of the podcast designers after hours okay - so there's people like you and I know in common, like Bill Brooks who started the Alts Music Group. There's the sculptor, I just spoke to Chris Hunrath earlier today, who's a scuba diver. So what do you like to do after hours? Honestly Mike my side is a little sore right now because I did some martial arts last night so that's one of my little best-kept secrets, so to speak, been doing that for a long time done Tan Sido, got a third-degree black belt there, and then migrated over to Kung Fu and have a black sash. Well, remind me to never make you mad! You’re so soft spoken and could kick my butt. [Laughter] Pat's the one that always bounces that around the office but he's honestly the only one I’d ever damage too… [Laughter] That's cool. See, another interesting after hour designer. Well David, thanks again and I know we'll see you soon again. This has been Judy Warner and David Carmody of San Diego PCB. Thank you for joining us today we'll make sure to share our links below and please visit us again next time. Until then, remember to always stay on track.

Sick, tired, lonely and lost. That's the point where Jessica Zweig, founder and CEO of the SimplyBe Agency knew her path with Cheeky Chicago had ended and something needed to change. The story of changing paths - especially when it means shuttering something that's gained public recognition the way that Cheeky Chicago had - may be a topic that some guests on our podcast #WeGotGoals would avoid. But for Zweig, her willingness to share this journey was the perfect mix of authentic emotion and magic for the live audience in attendance for our recording of this episode during January's #SweatworkingWeek. Zweig shared the inception and co-founding of the online lifestyle magazine that gave women nightlife, restaurant and lifestyle tips as well as deals and events in Chicago. Behind the events, the nights out and the years of hard work, Zweig told the audience that she was suffering during what should have been high moments. "I ran cheeky for six and a half years and I was really burnt out by the end," Zweig said. "Inside I was miserable, especially for the last year or so." In a downtrodden moment following chronic sickness and surgery, Jessica understood a nearly universal truth: that if she moved on, she would almost certainly be OK. "If you've ever created anything, right, it like, doesn't feel like it's something that's separate from you. It's you, it's your creation. And that's how I felt about Cheeky. The ability to learn from moments like that - we've found through episode after episode of #WeGotGoals - is what makes guests on #WeGotGoals successful. The lesson's that you'll hear Zweig share are useful for anyone not interested in learning them the hard way. --- JACAre you guys ready? I think we are too, right? JZ: Yes, we’re so ready. JAC: OK, we're going to do this. I'm going to get my official podcast voice on. JZ: Woo-hoo, me too, then. JAC:  Hello, Jessica Zweig. JZ: Hello, Jeana with two last names. JAC: Yes, OK, good, we’re ready. I'm live with Jessica Zweig on the #WeGotGoals podcast. Hi, Jessica! JZ: Hi Jeana, so good to see you! JAC: Good to see you too. Thank you so much for being here with us and with our live audience during SweatWorking week. JZ: Thank you for having me. JAC: So on #WeGotGoals, we talk about big goals we've accomplished and big goals that we're striving to accomplish, but first we want to get to know you. So talk to us about how you spend your days and what you do for a living. JZ: So I run an agency called the SimplyBe Agency. So we're a personal branding agency, which means we work with people as our clients versus a typical agency that works with products and businesses and brands. We work with actual human beings in developing thought leadership for our clients. So what that looks like is we help them clarify their message, build their digital platforms, launch their initiatives, help them grow audience, ideally revenue, a new opportunity to live what they love. And what do I do on a daily basis? Like every entrepreneur, it's totally different. A lot of our time is spent strategizing and building the identities of our clients because they're, they’re—we’re all brands, right? Hello personal branding. It's the space that I'm in, but a lot of our clients, a lot of people don't know how to really articulate what they bring and their value and their, their message in a way that's clear, consistent, compelling. So we really say that that's our sauce at SimplyBe is helping really define what makes you amazing and articulating that in a way that you couldn't for yourself without us. And then a lot of our clients, we actually manage their personal brands. So we're creating content, managing their social media channels, helping pitch them for speaking engagements, all the things. So we're full service and uh, that's, that's the core of what my agency does. But we do a handful of other little things, which I'm sure we'll talk about too. JAC: So live what you love. I love that phrase and it sounds so simple, but I bet it's more difficult, wouldn’t you say? JZ: Absolutely. I mean I run my own business and live what I love, but it all has its own challenges. No day is perfect. You never feel like you're there, there. Where is there? I don't even think it exists. And I think you know what? People really want to do though is feel like they're getting paid and monetizing their genius and what they're good at, you know, what they're good at and what they love to do. And sometimes those things are not always the same. You know, ideally most people are searching and striving for that. And today we live in a beautiful world where anyone can be a media channel and audience is currency, right? So if you grow your own audience, that's a commodity that you can leverage in a lot of different ways to live what you love. So that is really why I think personal branding is so relevant right now. I don't think I could have built this business five years ago. A lot of people are like personal branding that's interesting or what's, what's that? And I get either one of those reactions and I think now we live in a really exciting time where you can, if you're intentional with how you're showing up online. You can open up a lot of new doors for yourself JAC: And obviously you're doing very well with it. You've got a team that's present here today and you’re incredibly successful. So congrats on all of that. JZ: Thank you. JAC: So, let's get to the first big question. So talk to me about a big goal that you've accomplished and how you got there. JZ: So I've had an interesting career track and I'll, I'll keep it tight, but I used to run a company called Cheeky Chicago. We were an online magazine for women in the city. We were around for seven years. If you were a millennial girl living in Chicago between 2008 and 2014, you knew what Cheeky was and I left that business in 2014 to launch SimplyBe. And I took a kind of a winding road full of detours and I ended up working for a corporate company for two years out of those these last three years. So my goal when I quit that job to relaunch SimplyBe was just to make money and pay my rent and you know, work for myself. It was really truly that simple. I say that 2017 was the year that I built a plane in the air. Literally that's how it felt. I was just in reaction to wanting to get away from another situation and sort of re establish myself in Chicago and I didn't really know what that was gonna look like. So unlike I think a lot of entrepreneurs in and in 2018 we've gotten clear and we'll talk about that. But you know, are all about having that plan. I always advise people have a plan and I didn't have a plan in 2000, the very beginning of 2017. I just wanted to take on some clients and make some money. And within 11 months I grew from a team of two to a team of five. I have a full roster of clients, we have our own office space in the Google building and business just keeps coming and so it's a testament to, you don't always need a plan. You should, but you don't always need a plan. You just got to put the right people around you, hustle, work, work hard, and you know, believe you can do it to half the battle. JAC: So I'm interested to know what you learned from living that phase of your life when you didn't have a plan. Y JZ: Yeah. You know, I think it really comes down to the people you put around you. I have the most amazing team. I will say I have the best team in the city of Chicago and I really believe that and part of it's luck. Part of it is just being in the right place and the right time on both sides, but it's also really understanding as a founder, as an entrepreneur, what you're not good at as much as knowing what you are good at and putting people around you that can fill in the gaps. Not only just a fill in the gaps because you need the gaps filled, but because they are rock stars in their own right and my job as their leader is to get out of their way and let them shine and empower them to grow careers and not just be, you know, an employee of a company. And so I would say people are definitely helpful when you don't have a plan because they'll keep you accountable. When someone's on your payroll, like as an entrepreneur, as a small business owner, like shit gets real when people work for you, you are accountable to someone's livelihood. And so that really helped me get, get clear, make better decisions faster. And also the right clients, right? So your business is defined by the clients that you say yes to as much as it is the clients that you say no to. And I took on a lot of the wrong clients right up front this last year and I learned a lot and I don’t work with those kinds of clients anymore. Right? So I think a lot of things can attribute to not having, helping you get through a year like that or a time like that without a plan. It’s really about people, mentors, employees, clients. JAC: So in going from sort of one phase of your life with Cheeky Chicago into this brand new phase where you're empowering people and helping them find their voice, what sort of, what sort of led to that, what sort of lead to you finding your voice, which was helping others find their voice? JZ: Yeah, that's a great question. So I always say that. OK, so you guys need to know that I went to school for theater. I got a degree as an actress. Like literally I always, I say this a lot. When I graduated college I knew how to do two things. I knew how to wait tables and be dramatic and I was really good at both. I still am. So I was like, no, no business, like calling myself an entrepreneur. Right. And so I started Cheeky Chicago when I was 26. I had been doing the acting thing for awhile and I was ready to be done with it. I had this light bulb moment. I had a partner. We had this joint light bulb moment and we started Cheeky and we just totally faked it until we made it and I always say that during that experience I built my own personal brand by accident. I was the face of the magazine that happened to have a lot of followers, so a lot of people were interested in me and it was the dawn of social media. You guys, this was 2008, so this was before Instagram. This is right when Facebook left the universities and anyone could use Facebook and Twitter has just exploded. And so I sort of grew up on social and by virtue of that as I was starting to get Jessica's following and so I say built my personal brand by accident and then by design and then something really incredible happened in 2014 when I left Cheeky to launch SimplyBe. People. I felt like were coming out of the woodwork wanting to work with me, and no one knew how good I was, like no one knew if I sucked or if I was actually really legit and I had this Aha moment back then. Wow, there's power in building an equity in your, in your brand name, and developing a story and a persona. Ideally an authentic persona, but a persona nonetheless that people can latch onto and believe in. And it really opened up a lot of doors for me. It made me money. It gave me opportunity, it gave me exposure. I met amazing people. I mean that was all from having a Jessica Zweig's personal brand. And so that evolution of really finding that myself and it does, it comes naturally to me. I grew up on social, so I'm able to teach it to other people and for sometimes hold their hand through that process. That’s why they hire us. And um, yeah. I don't know if that answers your question. JAC: Yes. So let's talk about the nuts and bolts of starting SimplyBe. JZ: Yeah. JAC: So walking away, from Cheeky, this thing that you had built that people love, that people still talk about, what did it take to know that it was time? What did it take for you to make the leap and start SimplyBe? JZ: All really good questions, you know, to be frank, I had a—I ran cheeky for six and a half years and I was really burnt out by the end. There were a lot of things that people didn't see that happened in that business. People were like, oh, it's so glamorous and it's so fabulous and it's so fun and to be a Cheeky Girl. And like inside I was miserable. Especially for the last year or so, I started getting really sick, I actually still get like little infections from, I developed an autoimmune disease when I was running C heeky. I got super sick and ended up having to have surgery on that sickness. I had a very challenging relationship with my partner. Um, I very indirectly created a toxic environment of employee, but there were a lot of things there that were really, really hard. Right? But it was my first business and I learned so much. I love and kiss and send light to every single moment of that experience. And every single person, I swear to God I do. They were the biggest teachers. And so by the end of that I just, I was really ready to walk away. It was like a dark night of the soul kind of moment towards the end there because—raise your hand if you're a business owner. We have entrepreneurs in the room. OK, cool.  If you've ever created anything, right, it's like, doesn't feel like it's something that's separate from you. It's you, it's your creation. And that's how I felt about Cheeky. It wasn't this thing that I created. It was me and I was it. And so how do you say out loud like I don't want to do this anymore? And it was incredibly painful experience. So when I, when I ended up taking the leap to leave and do SimplyBe very similar to this sort of last year when I created SimplyBe 2.0, I didn't have much of a plan either. I just knew I wanted to do my own thing and call it SimplyBe and do marketing and branding, consulting and get some clients and be a one woman shop and it was very reactive versus proactive. This year because I had such great success in 2017 and as I said, shit got real. I put a plan in place, so 2018, we have a blueprint, like a very clear quarter by quarter micro down goals and metrics and numbers and multiple revenue streams that we're building out and sales and marketing strategy. It's all there now. Right. And that's. And that makes me feel really good because I think you need, you need that. And my whole team is vetted on that and it's just a different experience now. So the nuts and bolts weren't there. But here I am nonetheless. And you know, now we're moving forward with a lot more in place. JAC: And it sounds like you almost led with intuition. JZ: Yeah, absolutely. And that's so funny that you say that. So quick story, I was still running Cheeky. It was towards the tail end I had had that surgery. I tell this story often, but it's a life changing moment. I was sitting, I was recovering from the surgery, which if anyone's ever had surgery, you know how intense that experience can be, and I was sitting outside in a park and I had like an emotional breakdown. Like I just started crying. I was so tired. I wanted to go back to work, but I couldn't. All I had been doing was Cheeky for, you know, six, five, six years and I have this little tattoo on my wrist. I don't know if you can see it, but it says simply be. It's written in my own handwriting that I'd gotten in my early twenties and I looked down at my wrist and I heard a voice like my intuition. And it was the first time in my life that I heard crystal clearly a voice, like another voice that came from somewhere else, but it was also within me that said, “You can, you can walk away, you can slow down, you can step out of this. You're OK. It's OK to take a break, a breather. It's OK to listen to your heart.” And I looked at my wrist and I was like, whatever I do next, and I didn't even know what it was I'm going to call it simply be as a reminder to be authentic to wherever I am in that particular time and to ideally help other people do the same. Right? Because every business you do, you should be in service, right? It's not about you, it's about what can you provide people. And so that's where that really came from. And that was, it was all intuition ever since then. And I've never stopped listening to my intuition. JAC: Incredible. How did you hone that? Have you always sort of been intuitive? JZ: I think we're all intuitive. I think we're all intuitive. We just need to give ourselves some space and time to hear it. But that was a pivotal moment. That's when I really started meditating more. That's when I started getting into more spiritual thought leaders. I've always been a little bit into the woo-woo, but now I'm like majorly into the woo. It's like the biggest part of my life. Ask anybody that knows me well. And so ever since—and, and just to be clear, once you hear your intuition, doesn't mean that you're never going to not ignore it. Like you're, you're never gonna be perfect. Once you listen to your intuition, you're still gonna make mistakes and be led down a path where you're like, yeah, my gut is telling me not to do this, but I'm gonna do it anyway because my head and my heart and the people around me are saying this is good. Right? I've had plenty of those experiences. But it comes from sharpening your intuition and getting really quiet with yourself more often than not. JAC:So you accomplish this big goal of doing this thing that allows you to help other people tell their own stories and build a legacy. JZ: Yeah. JAC: Let's talk about legacy. What, what do you sort of define legacy as for your clients? And what do you want yours to be? JZ: That's a great question. Um, so we're, you know, we all want to make money, have a job, build a career. But a legacy is different. Legacy is what do you want? Really, what do you want to leave when you're, when you die? What do you want people to say about you when you're not in the room? What do you want your name to represent in perpetuity? And I think that for, for, you know, for my clients, it's really—we're kind of, we're kind of elitist in the sense that if you don't want to leave a legacy, we don't really want to work with you. I don't really want to work with people who just want to be Instagram famous. Sorry, I don’t. I want to work with people who want to leave a legacy, who want to help future generations who want to make the world a better place. Not the whole world because you can't. I just had this conversation yesterday with one of my clients. He was like, I want to change the world. He's in the railroad industry, he's a technologist, and he's like, I mean, I know I can't change the whole world, but my little lot of land. And there's 8 billion of us and if we all did that, if we all made the world a better place, the world would be a better place. So that's how I'm changing the world and I have chills just  now thinking about him answering that question. It's like, that's, that's really what it's all about. Just change your life. If you can make the lot of land you sit on better, then you're making a legacy, then you're leaving a legacy. And for me, what's my legacy? Honestly, I really want to create space for women to unapologetically love and accept themselves. I, that's my challenge here on this planet. You know, I was reading this book called Material girl, Mystical world by Ruby Warrington. It's a great book and she has this whole chapter on motherhood. She's like 40, I'm 36. Jury's out if I want kids. And she. And she's like, I'm clear. I don't want kids, whatever, you know, Oprah doesn't have kids. Diane Sawyer doesn't have kids—like all these, like amazing, like thought leader women don't have kids because they feel she's like, I align to that feeling and to that purpose because I feel so maternal in creating businesses and creating impact, whatever it might be, and to be honest, I feel that way about my team. I feel like my legacy is to make, to give them careers and to make them like super boss, amazing women. And if I can play a small role in that and their future of their lives and they love themselves and create more reverberations for more women than I, then I'm living a legacy to be honest. Like, yeah, I love being an entrepreneur and making money and doing personal branding, but I really love doing that. That's really what I love to do. JAC: And that you can do anywhere. JZ: Anywhere. That's the thing about building a personal brand of a higher calling that has a legacy to leave. JAC: Incredible. So let's talk about the future. Yeah. Accomplished incredible things. What does the future look like? What's the big goal that you want to accomplish in the future and how do you plan to get there? JZ: So I'm deeming the year 2018, the year of experiences. I think we're so like on our phones all day long in email all day long and the most impact I've experienced is when I've gotten out and traveled to a new place or met a new group of people or gone to an event like this and like learned something. That's how I've expanded, right? And so I want to create that for my business and we want to actually launch, we are launching a various series of high-touch experiences. So we, we do the agency work, we support clients as a revenue stream, but this year we're launching workshops, live workshops where you can come work with me for a day or two and we do personal branding, deep dive intensives. And then I’m also launching, I’ve launched global retreats, so three different masterminds that are happening throughout the year in Bali, Costa Rica and Italy. And these were all like visions that I had in 2017 for where I wanted the business to go and we've set timelines and revenue goals against each and marketing plans behind each. So I mean, behind it all it’s, you know, facebook ads, it's um, you know, launch marketing emails, influencer outreach, all of the things, right. So those are, those are big goals. I essentially want to double my revenues from 2017 to 2018 and that's, that's the, that's the big goal, right. And to get there, I want to open up some other streams of revenue and of course, to be in service and to be creating experiences for people that I believe in that I know will help people. JAC: And in turn probably hiring a bigger team. JZ: Yeah. We don't want to get too much bigger. And we have two interns on staff with us now and they're like rock stars. And I have a core team of women. There's another woman that works for me. She's not here, she's in Nashville, but we'll probably hire a couple more people and then freelance out as we need. And yeah, I don't, I don't really want to build this huge team like 20, 30, 40 a hundred people. That's not my style. I want to keep it boutique and like family. JAC: So how does someone find these retreats? JZ: You can go to simply be magic dot com. They are happening in March in Bali, Italy's and May, Costa Rica as a November. They are, um, five day experiences. I partnered up with a master life coach. She's actually a spiritual life coach. So you get one full day with her one full day with me one full day with both of us. And we've built in Cultural Immersions, surfing, you know, going to the water temple in Bali, doing wine tours in Italy, going to the jungle and seeing the monkeys in the animals in the jungle in Costa Rica and all food, organic, included themed dinner parties at night. It's going to be really magical. That's why we're calling the magic mastermind. JAC: I put Bali on my vision board for this year. So it feels like we're going to have to talk. JZ: We should definitely this. This room is filled with a lot of women. So I'm wondering what’s one to two pieces of advice that you would give to women who want to find their voice or start anew. JAC: So you know, I always say that you can't be all things to all people or you'll end up being nothing to no one. Know that when people go to the internet or social media or their phones, they don't go to see how cool you are or skinny you are or what you ate for breakfast. They come to help themselves. They come to better their lives to be educated and inspired, to get information to help their families or their business, whatever. So knowing that when you create content, don't just add to the noise, provide something of value. Always be in the value mindset so that, that's how you really grow audience. And that's how you grow affinity. When people really feel like you've got something for them and that you're not just all about yourself. And then back to the nothing, everything to everyone and nothing to no one, having a relatively clear topics, right? So if you're talking about how much you love your cat one day and the next day, you're talking about where you're traveling to next and the next day you're posting a recipe and the next day or bitching about your boss and the next day you're talking about, should I move to another neighborhood? Like I don't know who you are and I don't know why I should follow you and I don't know what you have to offer. So really thinking about the core pillars of your life, the things that you really are passionate about that you could talk about every single day, and create what I call content buckets and just try and stay consistent. So the way you grow an audience online is consistency, clarity, and constancy. That's how you compound. I call it the three Cs. If you really want to grow an engaged following, you gotta, be consistent. Pick your platforms. You've got to be constant, be there all the time and be clear in your message. You can't talk about just one thing because you're going to be boring. But if you talk about 20 things, you're confusing. So coming up with the  things that you really that really move you that you love, know and do really well and just be known for that. So that's from a personal branding standpoint, what I always sort of recommend from a high level. JAC: Perfect. From the audience. We're going to open it up for questions. You'll actually come up to the microphone today and ask your question. So would anyone like to ask a question, of Jessica? Hannah, I knew you would. Get up here. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So first off, I actually used to love Cheeky. Get the free prosecco at HUB51. JZ:Oh my God, yes, the Cheeky Card. AM:I used to love it. Very obsessed, now I’m obsessed with aSweatLife instead. Swap out my obsession. But you did kind of touch on that Cheeky became a little bit toxic. And are there some lessons learned at Cheeky that sometimes now in your new company an event will happen, and you're like, oh my God, because of x, I know to do y. JZ:Yes, absolutely. Great questions. What didn't I learn a Cheeky that I apply today. It was my first business. I was 26. I ran it for seven years. I mean that's a long time. I learned a lot. Cheeky was my first experience in managing people, so the culture got toxic, right. And I was like 28 maybe at the time when we first started hiring real people and these were like 21 and 22, 23, 24, 26 year old girls. So they were, they were not that much younger than me. They were, we were peers in a way and I wanted them to like me so much. I wanted to be friends. I wanted to hang out, I wanted them to like think I was the coolest boss and you can't, you can't be liked first. You have to be respected first. And I was so afraid of making them mad at me, right? So that when I, when I was, when I had to reprimand them, I, it was awkward like they resented me because they were like, you're my friend. We were just talking about boys an hour ago and now you want to tell me I sent that, that email out wrong. Like that was, it was a line I just did not know how to walk. And with this team, I have a team that respects me first and I respect them and they like me as much as they respect me. And that's a balance I will say. I think I strike pretty well. Now I have a no asshole policy. One of my core values is to be kind. We didn't even have core values at Cheeky. We didn't even have core values. We had a philosophy like to be Cheeky is to be fabulous to be nice to each other, but we were nice to everyone else but each other internally. At least that's how it felt. You know, when you're running a business as a founder, you're not at your desk a lot, right? So your team, there's an expression when the cat's away, the mice will play. And that was very true for me at Cheeky. And I got burned really bad by that. And I know that when I'm away from my desk at this business, my team is working. And they're having fun, but they're not gossiping, you know, messing around on Facebook and pinterest all day like they're getting their work done. And that's a precedent that I set from the beginning. So that's just an example of it really is about team and as a leader, everything starts with you and it's a note that I set completely differently at SimplyBe. AM:I would love to know now since you still own your own business and it probably does still feel like a lot of you is in the business. What do you do now to separate and to create boundaries for yourself and to feel good just on your own terms? JZ:Yeah, well I definitely meditate. I work out a few days a week, so it's a non negotiable. Like I carve out time in the mornings usually before work to go to the gym or to go to a studio. I go to Pure Barre Bucktown shout out it's right across the street from my house. So good. And so there's that right? And I mean I work 24-seven, like I don't like to turn it off. I love to work. It's part of who I am. However, I will say that I brought on Tamara Edwards this year, one of my teammates. And she helps me with my, she came in within two days, she was like, you're doing all of these things and spending all of your time on things you don't need to do. This is not CEO level, this is like staff level and this is like she started policing my schedule, um, and helping me really prioritize what's really worth my time and what, where you going to get the best of me and how I should be spending the most energy and the least. And I think again, just going back to team, like having people who can really see things you can't and push you to be your best, keep you in line is really helpful. So, you know, and I, when I ran Cheeky, I was single and you know, was like out all the time. Now I'm married, I have a dog, two dogs actually. And I love to be home and so I've just put boundaries innately around my life so I have more balance. But you're still gonna work all the time. So having, having people who can, you know, put that boundary around you to help you do that has been really instrumental. AM:OK. For the listeners, I really would love for you to tell everyone here about, you know, we, it's this culture. I think what makes, I think all of us who have work experience. It's really the culture that you create that creates productivity and trust and those working relationships. Can you talk a little bit about our Monday meetings? Because that's why I show up on Monday. I just think it's, I just think it's so important, um, for any, any person, entrepreneurs, business owners, just something to think about. I've just always been about this and you actually put it into like an agenda. JZ: Cool. OK, cool. So every Monday morning we hold a 90 minute meeting. It's all about what's on deck for the week. It's a very intense meeting. It's a one, one time a week. We all got together as a team to do work and to set the tasks for the week. It's very task oriented and at the very end of the meeting I have four core values that I set in my business. Simply be bold, simply be relevant, simply be true and simply be kind. And we just implemented simply be in service, but all the same. To be bold means to step and think outside of your comfort zone. I think we need more bold women in the world like in general, let’s celebrate our boldness, like beyond. To be relevant. Like we want to know what's going on in our industry. We take classes, we read blogs, we keep up, we follow the right influencers were like, we're going to be the experts. We have to. We have to be the experts. To be true is to be authentic, to be yourself, always make no apologies and to be kind is obviously to be kind. So at the end of every meeting we do a core values roundtable where I have every one of my staff go around and ackno

What's going on everyone? This is Steve Larsen and you're listening to Secret MLM Hacks Radio. So here's the real mystery. How do real MLMers like us, who didn't cheat and only bug family members and friends, who wanna grow a profitable home business ... How do we recruit 'A' players into our down lines and create extra incomes, yet still have plenty of time for the rest of our lives? That's the blaring question and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Steve Larsen and welcome to Secret MLM Hacks Radio. All right you guys. Hey, recently I was on stage for several days. And I was teaching. And everyone in the room had paid anywhere from 15 to 25 grand per seat to be in the room. And ... a lot of fun. It's a part of my job. I absolutely love it. It's probably one of my favorite aspects of my job and what I do. And I was on stage, and I was teaching and a lot of marketers in the room, almost all of 'em are marketers, and you know business owners, of course. And everyone was ... anyway it was really fun, having a good time. There was a lady though, who stood up and I think she'd be okay if I share this. She stood up and she started telling us this story and we were on a certain subject here. And she stood up and we were all kind of sharing and stuff. And she stood up, and she started telling this story of when she was pregnant. Now she is in kind of like the mommy weight loss industry. She helps women basically get the results that they want without ... I'm sorry, after being a bit ... you know, giving birth, without giving up their bodies. It's a huge, huge industry obviously. This is something that isn't talked about that much. And she's sitting there, and she's talking to us about an experience she had while she's on camera. The camera was up and running. She was teaching. And she was showing a particular ... she was showing some exercises. And at this time, she was trying to just be as vulnerable as she could. She was trying to just be 100 percent herself, no fluff, no strings attached. And she leaned over, and she had lifted up her shirt just a little bit to show her stomach. And she leaned over, and she ... you know, she was showing all the skin from the stretching, from being pregnant. There was all this skin there. Right? And she'd stand up straight, and there was like a six pack. Then she'd lean straight over again, and there'd be all this extra skin. And she's like ... "It's weird. These are things that women don't talk about at all when they're with pregnancy and such." And all of a sudden, while she's doing ... Now, think of that. First of all. Just right off the bat. Amazing courage to do that on camera. Right? Just to do that, when most people are out there so busy posturing, and most people are out there going crazy about all the things that they need to be doing to make it look like they're professional and stuff like that, she's lifting up ... you know, showing her labs and then leaning over and showing all the actual saggy skin and stretch marks from her pregnancy. Number one, crazy amazing props. Absolutely incredible. All right. Then, she stands back up and the abs come back. And she was talking about, "Hey these are things that most women don't ever talk about. It's not really something in the industry that much." And while she's doing it, she pees her pants. After women give birth, the pelvic floor isn't as strong anymore. It just ... it's really easy for women to do that. [inaudible 00:03:31] it's kind of weird that I'm talking about this, but there's a whole point behind it. Okay? And she kept the camera running. And instead of getting freaked out and running around, she had no control over it, she pointed it out. And she goes, "Women. This is exactly what I'm talking about. I wanna teach you how to reclaim the body after you have something ... you know, after you have child birth happen to you. You don't have to give up." And she posted the video. And the video got passed around like crazy. And she ... that event that she was at, that I was helping to run, that was only a couple months ago. And on a $37 product, she has made over one point, I think three million dollars, something like that. Over a million bucks on a $37 product. You think about it, that's over 40,000 customers that have to come through. Let's think about this. That's ridiculous, first of all. Now, typically I teach people how to sell more hi ticket things, and she did it on a $37 product. And she got out there and just did it and posted it. Number one, ridiculous mad props. I just ... I'm so ... oh my gosh. Like I'm so ... I feel so blessed to even, that she was in there and telling us this story. And it all revolves around what I call and we call "the attractive character" and this notion of vulnerability. The attractive character is something that is ... it's how we speak. It's how we interact with people. It's the stories we tell. It's our parables. It's the things we like, the things we don't like. Right? It's our ability to tell our own backstory and where we came from. Right? It's our voice. And what's funny is that when you think about, "Hey. Let's go get into business. Let's go get into MLM. Let's go get into this. Let's go get into that," whatever it is. The tendency is to jump out and start putting on a freaking tie, and go to the dry cleaner, and get my suit dry cleaned, and get starch put in there, and go look all postured, and try to make myself look like I'm better than I am, look like I'm farther than I am, look like I'm different than I am. And what sucks about that is you end up cutting out so many people, who may have otherwise followed you. Does that make sense? When we start to posture ourselves, and we try to act like we're something that we're not, we end up cutting out part of the market. I realized this early on, not just in MLM, in other industries as well. I was doing these different ... you know, I'm a funnel builder. I build internet sales funnels as a living, and put all the pages together, and all the automation, and all this stuff. You know that's ... and I love it. It's a lot of fun. But I remember I was putting these products out there, and I was doing this fun stuff. And it was awesome. And I was really enjoying it. But these people started coming back to me and saying, "Gosh Steven, I'm so happy that you can go do X and Y and Z, but I just can't." And I realized that I had been posturing myself too much. There was a site that I launched first, not first ... there was a site that I launched about a year and a half ago called Sales Funnel Broker, and it's still up right now. I have not had a chance to go back and change it. But it's with me wearing a shirt and a tie. And I was like hey ... anyone to give me some feedback on this, I just want to see if it's set. I gotta go switch it right now. I probably will after I do this episode. But it was me wearing a shirt and tie and ... I had a buddy reach out to me, really quickly, and he goes, "Dude. Site looks great. Love all the stuff you're doing. Love the value your giving out there." He said, "Just one piece of feedback though." He said, "You're not really a shirt and a tie guy." I was like, "Well, I like to wear 'em." He was like, "Yeah. But your personality, the way you market, the way you put yourself out there, your voice is not really shirt and tie crap. You're more of like just kind of tell it how it is a little bit." I was like, "You know, that's really interesting feedback." And I thought that's actually really valuable feedback. Thank you very much and I started going ... I started podcasting like crazy on a different show that I have. And I was out there, and I was doing all this stuff. And I realized, quickly, as I started finding my voice, that more people were resonating with me as I would talk about the things I like, as I would talk about things I didn't like, as I would talk about my failures, as I would talk about ... and anyway I could get vulnerable. The game for me became so much less about how to actually look like I'm being professional. I'm a good funnel builder, you know. And I know that the stuff that I do is world class, you know. And I know that. And that's okay to know that, and it's okay to know what you're good at and I know that I'm good at it. But when I come off in a way that is too ... what's the word? How we say, "starch in your shirt." When I come off looking too professional, and when I come off looking too like I'm trying to posture myself and looking up like ... you know what I'm saying? It actually pushes people away. And it's the same thing for your MLM businesses. Guys, I promise you if you want to have success in this faster, stop acting like you're a pro if you're not. Even if you are a pro, stop acting like ... people are not attracted to that, because I believe that I have to be on your level just to learn from you. If you start acting like you're all professional, and talking ... if you're not vulnerable with your people, if your attractive character is too high up, people don't think they're good enough to even get near you. Does that make sense? They start comparing themselves. And the question is no longer, hey that guy is awesome, or that woman is amazing, or ... they're not, that's not the question in their head. The question in their head is, "Oh my gosh. Do I even have a shot at looking like that? Do I even have a shot of going from I am to where Steve Larsen is. Or from where, whoever, Natalie Hobson is, or for whoever ..." You know what I mean? Wherever you guys are right now, even if you're killing it, even if you're doing ... I've got several messages coming back from you guys. It's been a lot of fun, learned more about who you guys are who are listening to this show, which I love. I've learned more about ... and there's a lot of you. It's a lot of fun. The show's blown up a lot faster than the other one did, which is a lot of fun. This is a huge need. I know it is in the industry. But I've been very careful to not position myself as someone, or somebody, or my brand as Mister Steve Larsen, Commodore Steve Larsen ... you know what I mean? Like some kind of like Commander Steve like ... no. My name's Steve Larsen. I'm from Littleton Colorado. I'm living in Boise Idaho, potato land right now because that's where my full time job is. And while I know that I could leave and be fine. I love my job, so I'm staying at it. And it's a lot of fun, and I really enjoy it, and I build internet sales funnels. And I know that I, you know, the work that I do, both MLM style and funnel building changes lives. And it's very motivating for me. And it's a lot of fun. And there's this sense of the walls drop as soon as you become real. And that's what Natalie Hobson had figured out. And she figured it out in ... I'm not kidding guys, it's only been a couple months. And on a very cheap product she made a crap ton of money. Right? It's because of her ability to be vulnerable that made her sharable. And if you're not talkable, if the brand isn't talkable. Let's think about it. So let's think about you and your MLM right now. You're literally the exact same as everybody else out of the box. Right? I've pounded that point like crazy in this podcast. MLM is broken as soon as you get it. Right? Same scripts, same everything, same products, you're literally competing with your upline. Okay? It's like a red, red, red, red, really freaking bloody red ocean. Does that make sense? And if it's that red and you don't do anything different, there's no reason [inaudible 00:11:17] gonna join you. So one of the easiest ways to start setting yourself apart, besides creating additional products and actually making new offer, and all that kind of stuff, is just to highlight your actual difference. There's a great book ... I cannot remember the title of it. I actually only read the back, which is a lot of you guys are gonna laugh about, but that's me being vulnerable. I only read the back of the book, but it hit me so hard, I've never gotten the line out of my head. And it said, "Stop highlighting your strengths. Don't focus on your strengths." It said, "You need to highlight your differences." How are you different than everybody else around you. If you start focusing on what you're different at, and you actually make that the loud piece rather than the strength ... someone's always gonna be stronger than you. Someone's always gonna be bigger, faster, better, you know whatever it is. But only you are you. And you've got differences. What makes you different than everybody else. Right? Now go highlight that. Be really, really, really vulnerable. Now the first time I ever shot videos, and I put 'em out there, they were freaking awful. The reason I don't go update them is because if I go out ... now, the content's amazing, actually the delivery's not that bad either. But I'm really boring in the videos. You know what I mean? I think so anyways. The content is incredible. And the things that I'm teaching are amazing. But like ... and every time someone watches the five video series, it's the MLM Masters Pack, if you guys go to SecretMLMHacksRadio.com there's a five day master pack. Anytime anyone watches that, they always ask to know more, or join the down line, or whatever it is. Then that's the reason I did that. I could go back and update it. I made those videos years ago. But the reason I don't is because I don't want to come off as like all ... too professional. You know? And it's fine if the stuff that you use, and the members areas, and all this stuff that ... the other products that I create, yeah, they're more professional looking. But man, all those front end videos, all the products and everything that's way out into more of the cold market, man, I do not make it look pro. And I do it on purpose. So, that's my invitation to you. I want you to ask the question to yourself right now, is there a place inside your MLM where you're acting too professional? Where you're acting like someone you're not? And if that's the case, I'm begging ya, I'm asking ya, for the good of the people who you could run into and help change their lives, stop acting professional like that. Start acting like you. Actually, it's funny, the same as in marriage. You know my wife and I have been married almost six years now. We've got two kids and a lot of fun. And I made the mistake, when we first got married, that I had to start losing parts of my identity. I had to actually become an adult, you know. Get my responsibilities in order. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. Or it was like, oh, there's no more fun for me. You know what I mean? It was almost like this mentality that I felt like I had to take on, because that's what society was telling me. The problem is that sucks. You become someone that you weren't. And you become someone that the other person didn't fall in love with. That was the other person, you, your real self. You know? It's the same thing with your customers. Especially if you've never done anything in business before ever, a lot of what happens is there's this persona that Hollywood puts out that all meetings are in suits, that you have to have meetings. I hate meetings. Meetings are dumb. Maybe I go to one, one hour meeting a week. That's it. Max. And I barely have anything to do in it, because ... and I run a big organization. I'm not at all ... I hate meetings. But I thought I had needed it, and I thought I needed my business card. And what's my logo? And all this garbage that has nothing to do with actual sales, or business, or making money. Right? It's all this posturing crap that ... the personas of Hollywood and all the stuff start to put into our heads. And it's the same thing ... and I realized, luckily, even in the marriage and everything. Didn't mean to relate it to that, and was not planning on that in this episode, but it's true. The more I remembered who I am internally, and spoke to those things more loudly, you guys, that's where a lot of the attractive character came from. That's where a lot of finding my voice came from. That's where a lot of confidence in what I'm trying to say in my messages ... that's where a lot of it came from. When I'm just more true to myself, and it's true for you in your MLM as well. Anyway, it's kind of a deep episode. My gosh. But hey, I hope that you guys enjoyed it. Go be vulnerable. Find places to be vulnerable. Stop worrying. You know, I would go get on Facebook Live and I would just start talking. Do it every day. And you do that every day ... if you publish every single day for a year, you will change your life before a year's even up. It's just the formula. It happens every time. Every time I tell someone to go publish or whatever ... it's happened many times now. A lot of my buddies, a lot of friends, a lot of people I've coached, a lot of my students ... they go out and they go start publishing, and the ones that are vulnerable have success very quickly, because they are being them. And it's sort of attracting like minded people. But if it's too professional and you're speaking like you're writing a freaking essay in college, no one cares about that. Talk like you're talking to a sibling. You know? Talk like you're talking to ... and do that to your MLM people, do that to your upline, your down line, just be a very loud version of you. And I promise, that's gonna pull a lot of the attractive character out and people are gonna start loving that. They'll like to be around you. Take off the dang suit if it's not you. Right? Stop doing that. I gotta go change that picture. I just still haven't ... it's been a really busy year. Anyway. Hey guys, hope this was helpful, a little bit of a rant there. But I just hope that it was something that you guys can really use and apply in your MLM right now, because that is ... it's one of the keys that I feel like most people focus on the product, which is good. You have to have the product, or the message, or the marketing and that's good. You have to have that as well. But there's this underlying piece when it comes to recurring buying, and brand building, and the ability to communicate your message, and your confidence, and the speed that you move will highly be dependent on you as a person, as the leader, as the attractive character and your vulnerability with that. Anyway. Hopefully, it's been helpful guys. I really appreciate all of you. Love the engagement back and forth. I've really enjoyed that a lot. And I'll chat with y'all later. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Would you like me to teach your own down line five simple MLM recruiting tips for free? If so, go download your free MLM Masters Pack by subscribing to this podcast at SecretMLMHacksRadio.com.