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Welcome! Craig’s walking you through a deep dive of the Pros and Cons of Online Collaboration Tools for Businesses and the Security implications for Businesses who have Regulatory Requirements.  For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Read More: Twitter wants to know if you meant to share that article DHS Warns on New Exploit of Windows 10 Vulnerability FBI Says Sudden Increase in Mobile Banking Is Heightening Risks For Users What COVID-19 Teaches Us About Social Engineering UPnP flaw exposes millions of network devices to attacks over the Internet --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: We're going to finish up our discussion about Microsoft teams. What are some of the things you might want to use it for? What is this? How was it different from Zoom and everything else on the market? So let's get going. [00:00:21] Hi everybody. Craig Peterson here. Thanks for being with us today. I really appreciate all your comments to me M E at Craig Peterson dot com. A lot of people just respond to my weekly show notes. You get those by signing up for my email list to find out what's going on, what you should be doing, what free trainings we have, what paid courses there are. [00:00:46]We are coming out with a free again, free, free, free. I'm trying to help out here. It really is for you. Okay. A free, special report about all of these apps we're talking about today. So Karen's been working really hard on that with me, and we hope to have it out either this week or maybe the week after. [00:01:09] And it's going to be. Pretty detailed about some of the pros and cons when you should be using it, what policies should you have in place for your employees when it comes to these collaboration apps? So I think it's very important topic, you know, so many of us just knee jerk our way into this with the COVID-19 thing, and we needed something now, please, anything. [00:01:36] And we jerked into Zoom. Most of us, some of us started using Slack. All of these things are, are up in usage. In fact, WebEx had so many people applying for it because it's really the only one. If you're a business that you should be using. That they had to cut back. They were giving it away for free for like two or three months. [00:01:58]Even though they have a huge worldwide infrastructure, they still had some problems with the onboarding, getting everybody set up and ready. So there may or may not be free WebEx stuff going on right now. They're supposed to go. Maybe it was through the end of June until the end of July. I'm not sure what it is right now, but anyway, We're talking about Microsoft teams right now. [00:02:21] Okay. so as I mentioned at the very end with Microsoft teams, you need to integrate your Skype went and we already know Skype is not. Considered to be overly secure. It was actually a little more security before Microsoft bought it. And then Microsoft changed its entire architecture to one where it goes through Microsoft servers. [00:02:45] And that way, if you're in China, Microsoft can sensor you. Or if the law enforcement agencies in the US want to hear what you're saying, Microsoft can provide it to them and they couldn't do it before. So yeah. A little bit of resentment there. You probably noticed in my voice, right, Danielle, back to Microsoft here. [00:03:07] The second big thing is it has this integration that a lot of people are looking for with your business apps. So you can use word Excel, PowerPoint, one-note planners, share 0.1 drive. All integrated with Microsoft teams. And that is a huge win because all of that stuff is right there. Now the integration isn't as clean or as neat or as easy as maybe it should be. [00:03:36] But it is there and it will get better over time. You can still use all of those tools, word, Excel, PowerPoint, et cetera, et cetera, with pretty much any of these apps. They're all designed to be integrated to varying degrees, but Microsoft ultimately will win this battle. Because they own the source code, right. [00:03:58] They own the programs. They're going to take care of themselves first. And they've been sued about that before. So no, no news there. Next point, customized workspace, and every team is different. So Microsoft teams is customizable so that you can integrate it with third-party apps, as well as Microsoft apps. [00:04:21] You know, that's really the trend right now. I see that across all of the industries, Cisco has done an interesting thing, and that is a couple of years ago. They decided to do a policy called API first. Now Microsoft is not doing this, but the whole idea behind API first is. That I'm like Microsoft that tries to play everything close to the chest and give itself advantages over all of its competitors. [00:04:49] Right. And we've seen suits on that forever, like integrating internet Explorer, right into the kernels, supposedly. And so that you could not use other browsers. You always had to have a ye initially, and then they allowed other browsers, but you still had to have I E, and then the courts ruled against them yet again. [00:05:09] And so unlike Microsoft's approach to try and lock you in, Cisco has decided that they want to make. All of the Cisco software uses the same interfaces that third-party vendors have to use. And that is phenomenal when it comes to integration. So if you want to use WebEx or WebEx teams or any component of any of the Cisco stuff, including their firewalls and the routers, et cetera, et cetera, you can. [00:05:41] They've got API APIs for everything. Cause that's the only way they can access their own software. It says absolutely phenomenal. So Microsoft teams do have some third party integration available on it, which can be handy. You also get real-time communications, which as I mentioned can be a problem. [00:06:02] This isn't just true with Microsoft. This is true for WebEx teams and Slack and everything else out there. But it's real-time. So a smart person's going to do something different with email excuse me. something caught in my throat, but, email, you typically try and delay, right? I try and read my email once a day and that's it. [00:06:29] And if someone really needs to get ahold of me, but they probably know how to really get ahold of me. Right. So I'm not getting interrupted. I can work on the stuff I need to get to work on. No, I'm putting his stuff. Together for my lives for my webinars, for my radio show for everything else. And if I get interrupted, particularly if I'm doing some programming work, it can cost me hours of time. [00:06:56] So I put off email and only go through it maybe once a day. Sometimes I'll go two or three days without really paying attention to my email. So I apologize to you. If you send me an email and you're hoping for a quick answer, I don't always get back to you very quickly. Right. I have other people in my team that that's what it's for. [00:07:15] So when we're talking about communicating in real-time with some of these collaboration apps, It's a double edge sword. So instead of having emails, bouncing back and forth, which might take hours and hours, right? Because someone says something and half an hour later, another person reads it and responds. [00:07:36] Now, then that first person an hour later read to them a response, you can just have it go over very quickly. It's phenomenal for productivity. When you need quick productivity, the high priority initiatives that you have can really move a lot faster because it's not an email. It's not getting a push back while you were waiting. [00:07:57] This is really instant messaging. Think of it like texting, right? So everybody can be on the same page with these team's apps you can see who has seen your messages and people can respond to them. They can start a thread. normally how does it work? You're well, you might send an email to everybody. Giving them an update, right? [00:08:18]they reply to you, but maybe not to everybody that happens all of the time. I know people that I, you know, I expect them to copy all because I, you know, I've got two or three people on it that are need to know, and they don't, they just reply directly to me. with these types of teams, apps, everybody's on the same page. [00:08:39] Everybody can see everything. This conversation with email can split into a bunch of different conversations with ideas, being directed at one person when it really should be a group discussion. So keep that in mind as well. When you're considering some of these team's applications, everybody knows what's going on, what the status is, and productivity. [00:09:04] Just keeps flowing. You're listening to Craig Peter's son. I appreciate your being with me today. And of course, you can get me online as well. Craig peterson.com. Make sure you sign up to my email list. Kirk peterson.com/subscribe. And that gets you an email every week. Oftentimes it's Saturday mornings lately. [00:09:27] It's been more like Mondays, you know, summertime COVID-19 every excuse in the book, right. As to why it's been a little bit more delayed, but you know, expected by Monday. And it's got my summary for the week. It's got links to my podcast and also info about classes and courses and lives when they happen. [00:09:46] And then of course, here on the air, take care of everybody. We'll be right back, stick around. --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

This episode originally aired as the Patreon bonus episode for March 2018. The original description follows: I think it's safe to say that writing this song has been an exploration of Skeletor's sensitive and emotional, yet still very evil, side. Based on how many times he's utterly failed over the years, he's finally turned to a classical music piece to maybe make a name for himself, but even then, still can't escape He-Man. When I started out with writing this song, I was torn between writing a bombastic, dissonant piece or a more somber, emotional one. I basically attempted to combine all of those feelings into this twisted, classical amalgamation. I started out with samples of all the hosts' most terrifying Skeletor laughs and some extremely dissonant piano... and then, because I'm Liz Logan, thought it would be a great idea to go from evil (what you would expect) to something unexpected, i.e. pleasant sounding. Then, I wanted the end of the song to be Skeletor's mental snare and bass-driven march to actually completing something for once. Bravo! -Liz LYRICS for "Skeletor Symphony No. 1" No one cares for me, No one seems to see That I'm so powerful That I even impress myself. I like to feel evil. I live to be bad. You're a loser Skeletor! He-Man, you boob! Everything I do Is for the sake of evil! Too bad I'm surrounded by dolts and halfwits and brainless idiots Who couldn't even beat a motley group of gnomes Skeletor is love! Evil You poor metal munching morons And this is how it ends, With Skeletor triumphant, at last!

Tahnee welcomes Heba Shaheed to the Women's Series today. Heba is a qualified women's health nutritionist and physiotherapist who specialises in pelvic and sexual pain, menstrual health, bladder and bowel health, pregnancy, postpartum, and complex trauma. Heba provides women’s health and paediatric pelvic health services including physiotherapy, exercise and nutrition. Heba’s mission is to make women's health information accessible globally and to provide high-quality women's healthcare in the privacy and comfort of a woman's own home. Heba believes women's healthcare needs to be disrupted so that women can stop suffering in silence. Heba is a global leader in her field and an absolute wealth of knowledge. Today's chat is informative and truly inspiring, if you're a woman or know one - tune in!   Tahnee and Heba discuss: The anatomy and physiology of the pelvic floor. The normalisation of period pain. What healthy bowel and urinary movements should look like. Mechanical constipation. The functionality of the squat. The pelvic floor and child birth. The use of Jade eggs - best and worst practice. The East vs West approach to pelvic floor therapy. Releasing trauma from the psoas. Multidimensional health and the importance of taking an integrated approach, heart, mind, body.  How and where the body stores emotion.  The subjective nature of pain. Retraining the brain and neuroplasticity. The correlation between pelvic pain conditions and childhood trauma. Sensitivity, self awareness and the importance of developing emotional boundaries. Tips for creating a happy and healthy pelvic floor.   Who is Heba Shaheed ?  Heba Shaheed is co-founder and CEO of The Pelvic Expert, a digital wellbeing platform specialising in maternal, menstrual and hormone health. Heba was inspired to work in this space following her own challenges with a 15-year history of chronic pelvic pain and endometriosis, and after witnessing the devastating effects of birth injury following her sister's first birth. Through the The Pelvic Expert Heba provides holistic and research-based, women-focussed, online wellbeing programs to corporates, government, private health insurers, workplaces and individuals. A qualified physiotherapist, Heba has supported more than 2000 women on their journey to better health and wellbeing, and instructed more than 1200 therapeutic yoga and Pilates exercise classes.  Heba is a leading authority on women’s pelvic health and is a media commentator on this important yet under-represented issue, and a regular speaker at global health and women’s conferences. Heba also offers specialised physiotherapy for complex female pain and endometriosis in her private practice.     Resources:   Heba Website The Pelvic Expert Website The Pelvic Expert Instagram The Pelvic Expert Facebook The Pelvic Expert Youtube The Pelvic Floor Program - Paid 4 Week Course   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee:   (00:01) Hi everybody, and welcome to the SuperFeast podcast. Today, I am here with Heba Saheed, and she's a qualified women's health nutritionist and physiotherapist. Her expertise lies in pelvic and sexual pain, menstrual health, bladder and bowel health, pregnancy, postpartum and complex trauma. And a lot of that is as you guys know, a massive area of interest for us at SuperFeast. So I'm really excited to have her here today.   Tahnee:  (00:27) She offers one-on-one pelvic health physiotherapy consultations in the Sydney CBD area. And this is for complex pain conditions like endometriosis, bladder pain symptoms, chronic constipation. I may not do these words justice, but I'm going to try, vaginismus and vulvodynia and painful sex, you can laugh at my pronunciation Heba. And she's also the founder of The Pelvic Expert where she blogs about pelvic health and provides online pelvic health programs and consultations which especially right now, given that everyone's in lockdown, is really useful for people.   Tahnee:  (01:01) She has also got a really great Instagram account with is how I came across Heba. It's @thepelvicexpert but we'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. And she also has a really awesome website, so if you guys want to go check that out after this, I would highly recommend it. Thanks for joining us today, Heba. It's really nice to have you on the podcast, finally.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:19) Thanks so much for having me. I know we've been going back and forth for a while now.   Tahnee:  (01:23) I know.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:23) But yeah, it's great and I really hope I'm able to provide some insight on this wonderful world of pelvic health. It's kind of a bit, it's almost sometimes hard to understand if you don't really get it.   Tahnee:  (01:41) Yeah. In researching you and preparing for this podcast I listened to a view other interviews you did and I was, because I've got a bit of a background in anatomy too, and I think you made the point in one of them of how a lot of people when they imagine a pelvic floor they're thinking about a banana hammock shaped piece of tissue in the pelvic area that just contracts. And they don't really have much of a three dimensional concept or a visual of what the pelvic floor actually is and how it functions.   Tahnee:  (02:15) Is that fair to say when you start seeing people, that you're educating them as well as obviously working with them?   Heba Shaheed:  (02:22) Ah yeah, absolutely. Education is the first thing. Educating them firstly, part of that is anatomy and that it is a three-dimensional, multi muscle system. I think people picture the pelvic floor as just this one little muscle that goes from your pubic bone into your tailbone, but it's more complex than that. It's got a right side, it's got a left side. It's got muscles that go to your hips, muscles that go to your tailbone, muscles that go to your pubic bone, muscles around your vagina, muscles around your urethra, muscles around your anus.   Heba Shaheed:  (02:55) It's a very complex system and they all have to interplay together. It's more than just muscles, it's connective tissue and fascia and nervous system and an immune system. There's just so much going on down there that we're almost oblivious to how important it is. There's organs there as well. Your pelvic organs, your bladder or your rectum, your uterus if you're a female.   Heba Shaheed:  (03:21) A lot of that is just beginning with education about yes, anatomy, like your physiology. But then even more than that, it's education around simple things like habits. What's appropriate for emptying your bladder? How often should you be going? What position should you be emptying your bowels in? How long should you be spending on the toilet? What should your periods feel and look and how long should they last? And all that sort of stuff. It's a lot of, more advice around simple things like your basic pelvic habits that we often have to educate people. And they're coming to us when they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s, even up to their 80s and not having known such simple concepts.   Tahnee:  (04:11) Yeah. I think back to health ed at school, which was pretty poor. It's such a mystery area for so many of us. And obviously then there's all the cultural stigma around bums and vaginas and vulvas and all those kinds of things.   Tahnee:  (04:30) When you're talking about these general health markers I suppose, something I'm really passionate about educating women around, is it's not actually normal to experience bad periods. For example, I have my period right now, and apart from feeling a little bit more introspective and a little bit quieter, like physically I don't have symptoms and that took me quite a long time to work out through my own journey of course. I think that's the same with things like bowel movements and urination. These are natural processes that require a really complex interplay of the nervous system and the myofascia and all of these things.   Tahnee:  (05:16) They're bio-markers. They're ways of us actually assessing our overall, more holistic state of health, right? So if you were talking to someone, what would you say how many times should we be going to the toilet? And what should we be looking for? And same with bowels. What are the averages, I suppose, if there are any that you would be looking for?   Heba Shaheed:  (05:35) Mm-hmm (affirmative). I can empathise with you on that front of having had periods that weren't great. And I agree with you in that we've kind of normalised period pain to the point that we don't even acknowledge that period pain is not normal. It's to the point where, "Oh I know, that's normal. Everyone goes through it. That's, you just kind of have to put up with it. That's life as a female."   Heba Shaheed:  (06:04) But the thing is, we know that period pain it still comes along with, if you start off your periods having had severe period pain and then you go on to have severe period pain through your whole teens and your 20s and whatever, that actually sets you up for development or exacerbation of both bladder and bowel symptoms. Because, as you mentioned before, it is a very complex interplay of the myofascia, which obviously your uterus is connected to your bladder and your bowels, fascially and muscularly as well, and of course your nervous system, the nerves are all supplying the same kind of area, and then the immune system and so on, right?   Heba Shaheed:  (06:46) In terms of what is acceptable in terms of behavioural habits when it comes to the bladder and urination, unfortunately what I often see in my clinic, because I see mostly complex pain patients is, "Oh yeah, I go about two or three times a day to empty my bladder." And I'm like, "Well, that's not right." And they're like, "I have such a strong bladder, I only need to go two or three times and I can really hold it." And I'm like, "Well, that's not actually something to be proud of, because you're actually putting a lot of strain on your bladder when you do that. Actually what you should be doing, is going around about every three hours."   Heba Shaheed:  (07:25) The bladder capacity, think of a bladder like a balloon. It's deflated when it's empty and then that balloon slowly inflates and the nerves send us messages when the bladder's more on the full end. But, you should also be getting minor nerve messages saying, "Ah, yeah. It's a little bit full," or, "It's moderately full." But if you're only going when your bladder is like stretched to extreme capacity, that's not actually healthy. Every three hours is good. That's about four to six times a day, or six to eight times a day. Six is kind of like a good, round about average number. If you're going less than four times, then I find that unhealthy.   Heba Shaheed:  (08:07) It should be a steady stream, a straight stream. If your stream's going off to one side or spraying, that could indicate that there's something going on. There should be no burning. It should be a steady stream, there shouldn't be any start stop of the flow. The flow should be relatively normal, not too slow, not too fast. Unless your bladder's full, then of course it's going to be a little bit fast. We also need to pay attention to what's happening. I think a lot of people, even when they're coming to my clinic and I'm asking them these questions, they're like, "Oh, I don't know. I don't know if it starts and stops. I don't know if it's a slow flow. I don't really know. I'm not aware."   Heba Shaheed:  (08:50) Or things like you go to sit on the toilet and it takes a few moments before the stream actually starts. That's suggesting that something's off with the muscles there as well. It's like these little things that if we start to become aware, I mean obviously we don't want to be hyperaware in that we're just fixated on it. But it's just like little cues that your body's telling you that the bladder or urinary system is functioning optimally or not. That's that.   Heba Shaheed:  (09:22) In terms of your bowels, the literature is strange, in that it says three times a week is okay to go to the bathroom for bowels. But I really don't believe that.   Tahnee:  (09:35) Yikes.   Heba Shaheed:  (09:38) I really don't believe that that is [crosstalk 00:09:38]-   Tahnee:  (09:38) Is that the scientific literature, I suppose in inverted commas?   Heba Shaheed:  (09:41) Yeah. It goes from three times a week to three times a day, is the realm of acceptability.   Tahnee:  (09:48) Geez louise.   Heba Shaheed:  (09:49) Yeah. I'm not really a huge fan of that. I'm thinking of it biologically and physiologically and mentally, psychologically the impact of not emptying your bowels on a daily basis. I'm a big proponent of, bowels should be emptying every day. If you're eating every day, you should be emptying your bowels every day. And if you're not, then that is suggesting that something is off in the digestive system, or in the immune system or in the nervous system. And it is something that needs to be addressed.   Heba Shaheed:  (10:22) And the fact, the thing is because I work with so many women who have complex pain and chronic constipation, irritable bowel and Crohn's disease and all sorts of bowel disfunction, I know for a fact that every single one of them is able to achieve daily bowel movements. Regardless of whether they came to me having said, "I haven't been in a month," or, "I haven't been in a week." In clinical practice I'm able to get them to go every day. It further justifies my belief that we should be going every day.   Heba Shaheed:  (10:53) And of course, it's just logical that you should be going every day. If you're having three massive meals a day, you could very well be going three times a day to empty your bowels, right? And they could be three type four stools, which is like a long smooth sausage, and that would be considered healthy. I would say at the very least once a day, and up to three times a day is good. But it's more about the consistency of the stool as well. It shouldn't be, "Oh, I'm going three times a day, but it's coming out as small pebbles and I'm incompletely emptying."   Heba Shaheed:  (11:27) It should be a complete empty of a type three to four stool, which is a long smooth sausage, and it should be easy to come out and I should be done instantly, I shouldn't be sitting there for 20 minutes trying to empty my bowel. And there shouldn't be any pain when I'm emptying, there shouldn't be any fissures, I shouldn't be straining, I shouldn't have haemorrhoids popping out. It should be a complete empty and I should feel like once I'm done, I'm done. I don't have to sit there trying to get little bits and pieces out.   Heba Shaheed:  (11:58) And if you're feeling that there is, sensations that aren't as I described, then it is starting to suggest again, that there might be some dysfunction. Whether that's a pelvic floor dysfunction, so for example the pelvic floor muscles, because the pelvic floor muscles surround your rectum, one of the muscles is called puborectalis, it surrounds your rectum and another is your external anal sphincter, these two muscles are part of your pelvic floor and if they're too tight, then they can make you functionally constipated.   Heba Shaheed:  (12:33) A lot of people get confused in that they think, "Ah, I just have to have more fibre. Or I just need to drink more water." It's a very nutrition focused approach, which is important for sure, but there is also a type of constipation that is purely mechanical. It is the muscles of the pelvic floor are extremely tight, and then it's actually physiologically difficult to push your bowel motions out. Or they are dyssynergic in that when you visualise yourself trying to push out your number two, it's actually tightening instead, because you're having this poor coordination. Your brain is sending the wrong message to the muscle.   Heba Shaheed:  (13:15) This is where pelvic floor physio comes in. Because it's like, "Okay, what's going on? How do we figure it out?" How do we... that's why we have such a great success rate with functional physiological pelvic floor dysfunction based constipation. What else? Yeah, I think that's the main kind of things. When we do go to the bathroom for number twos as well, positioning is super important. As I mentioned before, puborectalis slings around your rectum. It's part of your pelvic floor.   Heba Shaheed:  (13:45) When you're sitting on the toilet in just a general normal position like you're sitting on a chair, that puborectalis muscle is kinked, right? But as soon as you elevate your feet onto a stool and you lean forward, that kink relaxes, so that pelvic floor muscle actually physically relaxes just by being in a squat position. So think, eastern countries and so on, where they squat to empty their bowels, that's actually physiologically healthy and normal. We need to replicate that in the western world and that's where you would get a stool, and you'd lean forwards to produce that same effect. And that, again, physiologically, physically releases the muscles and you're able to actually empty your bowels without having to sprain and or without feeling uncomfortable.   Tahnee:  (14:36) Yeah. We have squatty potties in every toilet in our house and office. They are-   Heba Shaheed:  (14:42) Perfect.   Tahnee:  (14:42) They are very popular. But it's interesting just thinking about that, because I was lucky enough to have a birth that I was in control of. And I found the birth also I wanted to squat to deliver my baby. My mum, as I was growing up, always talked about that as being the most natural position to deliver in. I remember when I studied physiology that bend in the pelvis as well, you can really when you start to look at the muscles in the anatomy you can see how being in that squat position just allows everything to relax.   Tahnee:  (15:17) I think one of these misconceptions around the pelvic floor is that we always want to be tightening it, because and I was taught this through more the Taoist tradition but we work a lot with jade eggs and I don't know, you might not be into this, but taught me certainly to actually be able to relax and contract my whole pelvic region. And one of the practises we do is like almost using the vagina like a hand to like swirl them up and then down through the vaginal canal.   Tahnee:  (15:49) The first time I tried that I was just, "Oh my God, I have no connection to the... Like I can't feel anything in there. I don't," it was like one area was quite strong and then everything else was really weak. Is that kind of a similar thing when you're doing internal exams, what you're noticing is that people are quite tight in certain areas, but then really unable to get their brain to talk to their tissue in other areas? Is that what you're talking about with the anal sphincter as well? Things just gripping and holding on?   Heba Shaheed:  (16:23) Yeah. There's varying presentation that would come I guess. I think the biggest thing is that we have a complete lack of awareness of our pelvic floor. That's number one. It's just this disconnect, like our mind, body disconnect between the, well with the pelvic floor and pretty much that whole female region.   Heba Shaheed:  (16:50) If we go back to firstly what you mentioned about birth, yes, we're traditionally and physiologically you're supposed to birth, not supposed to birth, but it's inherently more conducive to birth to be in a squat position, right? Because we know that physiologically that opens up the pelvic floor muscles. And whereas in more kind of medicalized births where they're lying on their backs, that's completely not conducive to birth at all, because just the fact of lying on your back shuts your tailbone, it doesn't allow that tailbone to move. And that in itself tightens up, well not tightens, but it reduces the capacity of the pelvic floor to open, right? Yes, you're in a contractile state rather than a relaxed state, which is what it's supposed to be and then a bearing down state which you're supposed to be in for birth. That's number one. That's birth, right? But then aside from birth, well to be honest for birth you need to be connected to your pelvic floor.   Tahnee:  (17:58) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Totally.   Heba Shaheed:  (17:58) The issue that we see a lot with now is things like obstetric anal sphincter injuries. And that's because it's almost like women have been told, "Push through your butt like you're trying to push out a poo." But that's not the same muscles. They're part of the muscular system of the pelvic floor, but the vagina is very different to your anal sphincter. The anal sphincter in your posterior compartment, which is why you'll end up with an obstetric anal sphincter injury and perineal tears. And your vagina is your medial, like the middle system, but it's also part of the anterior system of the pelvic floor. It's very different, even the imagery that we are giving women is completely inappropriate. That's number two.   Heba Shaheed:  (18:55) We need to be connected to our pelvic floor, but not just, and I guess this is what you're saying, is like part of it is strong, what part of it is weak and part of it is connected, but part of it's disconnected. Well, that's the thing. If a person is visualising the pelvic floor as that little banana hammock thing, then of course you have no idea what's happening in your pelvic floor, because it's beyond that. Like I said, there's part of the pelvic floor that surrounds your urethra, part of it that surrounds your vagina, part of it that's part of your anus.   Heba Shaheed:  (19:25) Then you have another part that is a triangle that goes from your pubic bone out to your sit bone and across to the other sit bone and it creates a triangle. Then you have your perineal muscle, which are also part of your pelvic floor. Then you have a deeper perineal muscle. Then you have puborectalis that goes from your pubic bone and slings around your rectum and goes around to the other side of your sit bones. Then you have iliococcygeus, then you have pubococcygeus. Now I'm just putting words out there.   Tahnee:  (19:54) Then all of those are ligaments.   Heba Shaheed:  (19:55) That they have no idea what I'm talking about.   Tahnee:  (19:57) Well, [crosstalk 00:19:57].   Heba Shaheed:  (19:57) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (19:58) They're all ligaments of the uterus and the bladder and the vagina.   Heba Shaheed:  (20:02) Exactly. You've got all the ligaments which are your, so you've got contractile tissue that's under your control, but then you have ligaments that you can't really [crosstalk 00:20:11] control.   Tahnee:  (20:11) Yeah, not innervated.   Heba Shaheed:  (20:12) Yeah, exactly. Then you have your connective tissue beyond that. You have fascia, pubovesical fascia, you have the rectovaginal fascia. You've got all this complex system that I feel, yeah it might sound like it's hard to understand, but if you're going to go and give birth, at the very least you can develop a basic understanding so that you're able to differentiate between a posterior compartment push, right, as opposed to an anterior compartment breathing and let go and just facilitation of birth. It's not about forcing birth, it's about facilitating birth. It's changing the focus from a straining kind of action to allow the body to generate force from within to facilitate the birth, right?   Heba Shaheed:  (21:12) You mentioned jade eggs. Yeah, in traditional cultures there has been an emphasis, and the thing is today a lot of the, I guess western pushers of jade eggs aren't using it accurately.   Tahnee:  (21:30) Yeah, I know. Don't worry.   Heba Shaheed:  (21:33) A lot of them are more about, yeah.   Tahnee:  (21:33) I have that pet peeve too.   Heba Shaheed:  (21:33) Yeah. A lot of them are more focused on, "Ah, let's tighten up the vagina and tight, tight, tight. And squeeze and tighten." And it's all about squeezing, right?   Tahnee:  (21:43) Yeah, and like better sex and blah blah.   Heba Shaheed:  (21:43) That's right. Like you want to have... The thing is even if you want to have better sex and you want to have better everything down there, it's actually every muscle has the ability to contract and relax. And the pelvic floor is part of that. The pelvic floor musculature, rather than just a muscle, the pelvic floor musculature needs to be able to engage in contraction and relaxation. And traditional cultures who were using the jade egg in more traditional form, we talk about the engagement of the muscles in a contractile state, but also in a relaxation state. It's a bit of, not ballooning, but it's opening. It's letting go as well. And that when you have the jade egg, you shouldn't feel discomfort in there. You shouldn't feel sticky and uncomfortable and painful, but it also shouldn't feel like it's just going to fall out. It's like two concepts.   Heba Shaheed:  (22:39) The jade egg is something that's used in traditional cultures, but in more physical-   Tahnee:  (22:47) Modern context.   Heba Shaheed:  (22:47) Yeah, modern physical therapy context, we use something similar, but it's, what are they called? Vaginal weights. So they use vaginal weights, which are usually like a silicone thing or a plastic type of thing which I'm not really a fan of, so a silicone type of thing with magnets or weights in there that helps. It's a similar kind of concept. And-   Tahnee:  (23:10) Yeah, because I use weights. But just I use crystals.   Heba Shaheed:  (23:15) Yeah. And it's in the sense of that they use them more again, for strengthening and coordination, but again there is that kind of focus on tightening things as well. Usually you wouldn't see vaginal weights being used in somebody who has already a tight pelvic floor. However, in saying that, I could see the benefits of doing that in a sense that you're getting them to be more aware of their pelvic floor. And for them to desensitise the pelvic floor. Because a lot of issues with pelvic floor, pelvic floor pain in particular, is that there is an over sensitisation of the nerves and the muscles and the connective tissue of the pelvic floor.   Heba Shaheed:  (24:03) Can we go back to, what was the last question that you asked me?   Tahnee:  (24:07) I feel like I've gone so many places now, I think I was asking about in examining women and what your actual experience was as a clinician, I suppose. In the back of my mind, because we don't know each other super well, but I've studied with this guy in Thailand who's a Chinese man. Part of his system is you actually have internal massage to relax all of the tissue. And they work on your psoas through your vaginal wall and the psoas attachment at the femur and everything. It's interesting.   Tahnee:  (24:45) Yeah, so [crosstalk 00:24:46]. I was curious as, because for me I had probably six or seven treatments in a period of time. And then obviously didn't find many people here offering that sort of thing. But it's become more common lately, I've noticed. I just wondered, because for me I could really feel where there were areas of tension and pain, and then areas where I was, like you were saying, desensitised or didn't have a lot of awareness. I had that pre-birth and it was, I think, one of the reasons I had such a great birth. Because it had given me some context and some of biofeedback. I was able to, I love manual therapies in general because they teach you how to connect into your body in this new way, the tactile kind of way. I guess I was leading into what is your experience as a clinician and what do you see?   Heba Shaheed:  (25:34) Yeah. I guess my qualification is as a physiotherapist, but I work specifically in pelvic floor right, and women's health. But even more deeper than that, my expertise lies in female pain. I work specifically with women as you mentioned earlier, with women who have sexual pain, pelvic pain, period pain, vulva pain. Very specific to dysfunctions of pain down there. If we talk about the guy in Thailand, in a lot of traditional cultures we know that they utilise a lot of abdominal myofascial work.   Tahnee:  (26:23) Yeah, that's what I'm trained in.   Heba Shaheed:  (26:24) Yes. And intrapelvic myofascial work. And that's kind of in that whole body worker type of thing. And it's a traditional kind of thing, but then there's the Westernised modern thing which is pelvic floor physical therapy or pelvic floor physiotherapy where there's a medicalised version of it. Depending on the physio that you see, because again we're also divided in our approach. A lot of physios are moving towards more of mind focusing thing where it's like change your brain, change your body kind of thing, was my approach is a little bit more hands-on.   Heba Shaheed:  (27:09) I'm like change the body and the mind and the heart all at the same time, integrate them all. I know that I'm very, I don't know, just a bit more progressive in my approach and I'm very open, because I've also studied. I did a lot of South American Mayan type of abdominal massage training.   Tahnee:  (27:31) Yeah, like Arvigo and stuff.   Heba Shaheed:  (27:32) And I've done Ayurvedic and Abhyanga type stuff. I'm very open to all disciplines and all medicines. I'm not the type that's like, "No. It's all just about evidence-based pelvic floor physiotherapy." I'm not like that. And I'm very open about the fact that I'm not like that. And it's not exactly, it doesn't sit well with a lot of the evidence-based physical therapists, but I don't really care anymore.   Tahnee:  (28:00) I was curious about that, because when I saw you, I saw that you were working in kind of in clinic and like quite, like at universities and things. And I was thinking that's interesting that you're so open-minded, because I've, I guess in my career, bumped up against a lot of people who are evidence-based who think a lot of the stuff we practise is really wild. I've seen amazing transformations, and I also believe strongly in evidence-based stuff as well, but I'm like traditional evidence is still evidence to me.   Heba Shaheed:  (28:31) That's right. And clinical practise is still evidence. The thing is I find that the discussion or the disputes kind of occur because a lot of people get so focused on evidence-based being what is researched and done in a trial and done in a research study, but the thing is, most practitioners regardless of whether you're eastern, western whatever, most practitioners aren't sitting in research studies. They're actually with people.   Tahnee:  (29:04) Every day.   Heba Shaheed:  (29:04) Fixing the people's bodies. They've treated thousands of people using their practises. And this is where Ayurvedic medicine and traditional Chinese medicine and all these other traditional medicines come in. They've been doing that for thousands of years with beautiful results, right? And it has nothing to do with sitting in a lab or in a research group or whatever. I think people forget that clinical practise is actually, so there's three type of evidence-based medicine. One of them is research study. But the other one is clinical practise. Thousands and thousands of hours of clinical practise.   Heba Shaheed:  (29:40) And you know what? It comes down to a personality thing. We are all structured, we all have proclivities, right? I have an extreme proclivity for openness. Openness to experience and openness to intellectual things and openness to all sorts of things. But then you have other people who are more about like conscientiousness in like orderliness, or very low on the openness scale. And that's fine. That's who you are, like whatever. We're going to attract whoever is aligned with us. That's the people that I attract to my clinic. Most of the people, well 95% of my clientele are like intuitive, feeling, empathetic type of people who are very disconnected from their bodies, which is pretty much exactly who I am.   Heba Shaheed:  (30:29) I'm very intuitive person, a very feeling person, and I was very disconnected from my body, that I didn't realise that I had all these pelvic pain problems coming up, but they were there from when I was little, I just didn't realise until my periods came, and it hit me like a tonne of bricks that I wasn't emptying my bowels on a daily basis, that I was holding my bladder and only going twice a day. All these little things that you don't even realise, and it comes down to just who you are I guess biologically and psychologically anyway.   Heba Shaheed:  (31:05) The people who are a bit more, I suppose, conservative would end up with the more conservative physios. And then the people who are a bit more liberal end up with the bit more of the open physios or a bit more with the open traditional type of medicine. You're going to attract whatever, and that's fine. There's room for everybody. There's room for everything. And so I guess if we go back to what you were saying about what do I actually encounter in my practice, because I see mostly pain patients, they're coming in with these pelvic floors that are really tight, really uncomfortable, the fascia's yuck the nerves are very sensitised and all sort of things.   Heba Shaheed:  (31:43) And because I have such a touch-based approach, like I do a lot of intra-vaginal massage with them, and I do a lot of abdominal massage. And not just that, I do whole body massage. I work through the whole, if you're looking at meridians or myofascial lines, I work up into their ribs. I work down into their feet. I work into their cranium. Whatever I feel like, because I'm more of an intuitive person, it's like they come in and I don't know. It's just a weird thing that I have. I don't know how to explain it, but I can just look at them and I'll be like, "Yeah, this, this and this." And then I work into it and it frees whatever's holding. It's like it's something deep inside that you just have. You either have it or you don't. Or you can grow it, I guess.   Heba Shaheed:  (32:28) That's why, some people say, "Oh, she's a bit woo." But I don't care. I'm like, "Yeah, I am, but it works." And my patients are attracted to that and they love that. And then while I'm working with them, I'm talking to them, like anatomy and stuff. In talking to them, to their rational mind too. Obviously there's a rational part of this. There's and intuitive part and there's a rational part too. And I'm talking to them. And usually when I'm working on something and it might be the psoas interiorly, right? And they were like, "Oh yeah, my ex-boyfriend was very abusive," or something like. Things come up. You know that when we interact with the psoas, you're talking trauma extroverting muscle. As soon as you start to engage with it, the person starts to remember and wants to get out the trauma that occurred or whatever.   Heba Shaheed:  (33:24) Part of that is also allowing them to verbalise stuff, because we know a lot of stuff is repressed or held in. And because I attract this certain type of clientele who are the type, they're usually very assertive females who are assertive in their life, what they want, they're all like a bit type A type personalities. Type A, type B, I guess, but then they don't put their own needs ahead. They're putting other people's needs ahead of their own. And then they hold things in and a lot of them are quite out of touch with what is actually their feeling, because they're just constantly looking after people around them.   Heba Shaheed:  (34:09) It's like getting them back in touch with, "Okay, what happened to you and how did it change your life?" It's more like I do a lot of coaching stuff with them at the same time. It's an integrated thing. I've been to a lot of other pelvic physios and I can see the difference in the way that I treat, because a lot of them will just sit there quietly and do the work. Or ask you about your weekend or something, and I can never ever remember what I've done on the weekend, so it's like well what's the point of that?   Tahnee:  (34:45) You have a three year old, it's like, "I don't know."   Heba Shaheed:  (34:48) [crosstalk 00:34:48]. Yeah, you're having a deep meaningful conversation where you're freeing a lot of repressed stuff, whether it's microtrauma or a macrotrauma, it doesn't matter, they're still traumas. Even microtraumas have an impact and they're repressing them. And when a body comes to me in that state of, this inflamed state of severe period pain, chronic constipation, bloating and all this stuff, oh man, there's shit going on in there. There's stuff. It's not just, "Oh yeah, I fell over on the weekend." It's not that. This is deep stuff. What do you have to do? You have to have a deep conversation, otherwise that person's going to be going from one therapist to another never really figuring out what's wrong with them.   Heba Shaheed:  (35:33) And they're the ones that end up, because they start with the modern medical stuff and then it's not working, and then they have all this surgery and it's still not working, then they end up seeing traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurvedic Medicine and any of these traditional type of stuff, Mayan and whatever. And you know what? That's okay, because for you that is what is going to work, because it isn't just a body thing for you. When it becomes this complex and angry really, it is, there's like a poor alignment of your heart, your mind and your body. And it's trying to integrate all of them so that you actually feel like you're in control of your body, and it's not your body that's kind of controlling everything else.   Tahnee:  (36:19) Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's a such a common theme I think with women, is repressed anger and this sense that they have no control. I think especially women that are sensitive and like you were saying, empathetic and intuitive, because they take on so much and then it's this kind of push back or rage against what they've... It's their gift as well. I know you're an empath, and I am as well. It's my gift, it's also my curse sometimes. But I can feel, and that's certainly been my lived experience in my body, is when my own boundaries get brittle I start to really find that my body starts to lean back into the patterns that I've worked really hard to unravel.   Tahnee:  (37:11) I think it's just a constant process. But it sounds like you have such a holistic focus that people are able to work on that multidimensional level which I think, I mean for me it seems outrageous that that idea of bedside manner and all these things have been lost from the Western Medical system. Because, I think about just how important therapeutic touch and therapeutic listening is. I can remember going to older GPs when I was a little kid, who were like grandfatherly and gentle and kind. And just being in their presence was really healing. And I think now the system is really flawed obviously. But I can see how this disassociation of body from mind, from spirit has really led us down this path.   Tahnee:  (37:56) I'm super inspired to talk to someone who's actually gone through that system and continues to integrate, because I think that's really the future of medicine. That we need to have the evidence-based deep research and for me studying anatomy has given me so much power. But on the flip side of it, I have to keep remembering that the body is an integrated system and it's a holistic system and I can't just work on my pelvic floor and not have an overall effect on every single part of my body. It's this kind of dance always I think between the poles, I suppose, the Yin and Yang to use the Taoist ideas. But I mean-   Heba Shaheed:  (38:32) Yeah, well, it makes so much sense because what happened was in the last 50 or odd years or whatever, it really went into a more of a biological focus, like medicine went into a really biological focus. And then in the last kind of 20 years or so, they're like, "Oh no. We have to look at the mind as well." It's now kind of like a bio-psycho process, biological and psychological and then they're like, "Oh well, we know we do better in community." They're at this stage going to go into bio-psycho-social kind of thing. But the thing is, even the psycho-social stuff is still from a biological point of view, because it is like looking at psychology from a biological point of view.   Heba Shaheed:  (39:19) Really, depending obviously on what you believe in and stuff, and I'm assuming that obviously many of the people listening to SuperFeast are going to be more on the spiritual side. We feel like we have a, it's like a deeper connection, it's like a bigger connection, it's not just about my body right now. It's my body, it's my mind, but it's not just my body and mind, it's my heart and my soul as well. I need to be nourished in my soul too, for me to be really healthy. It's not just about always focusing on the physical elements.   Heba Shaheed:  (39:53) And that's part of it. It is part of it of course. You need to nourish your body to nourish your soul, but it's also vice versa. It's interesting. And the other thing that you mentioned before as well was about anger. One of the things that I've studied is when you look at, we have the mind or the head. And the mind and the head is where you hold fear. And then you have the heart, and that's where you hold shame. And then you have the gut or the pelvis, the gut and the pelvic paradigm where you hold anger. And that anger could be like anger to others, or it could be anger to yourself, or repressed anger.   Heba Shaheed:  (40:39) A lot of, that's often what we see. People are angry at themself, or they're angry at their bodies for not working the way that they want to, and it just feeds that cycle of anger. And their pelvic region gets worse and worse and worse. But if you really, really trace it back, you trace it right, right, right, right, back, there is that initial sliver of anger that started, but even before that there might have been an element of shame. There's even the heart isn't integrated. It could be shame, like shame at your own self. Or it could be a shame because somebody put a belief of shame onto you. Like, "Ah, that's not what girls do," or something like that.   Tahnee:  (41:18) Cultural.   Heba Shaheed:  (41:20) Yeah, cultural type of things. But it's somebody else's thoughts and feelings that you manifested of your own shame, or it's somebody else shame. Or even with a partner that you're with, or the parents, or whatever. Or society. And then even more so than that, your head is where you hold fear. Then what happens with a lot of my clients is that they get so stuck in their head, in that they're afraid that, "Sex is always going to hurt. That I'm always going to have period pains. Like, this is my life for the rest of my life. I'm never going to get better."   Heba Shaheed:  (41:56) It's like constant looping of fear in their head. What I try to do, is I try to get right to the beginning. It's like, "Okay, what was the first thought and feelings? What was the first thought?" If we go right back it could be something, a shameful thing that happened when you were two. Or it could be a fear driven thing that happened when you were just born. Maybe you were born to very abusive parents. Or like anger driven thing where you weren't allowed to be your authentic self, for example.   Heba Shaheed:  (42:33) It's like tracing it right back, because a lot of the time you can get so caught up in trying to treat the body, and then you think you're treating the mind because you're giving them pain education advice and all this stuff which is important, but at the end of the day the heart is completely not even involved. But I feel like that's really crucially important especially with the patients that I see, because they're all the kind of the feeling heart centred type of people. And then sometimes it's something as simple as, "I just hate my job. My heart's not in my job, and because I'm in my job," and I've had patients like this where it's like, she wants to be a naturopath for example, but she's working as a lawyer, you know what I mean? And she just hates her job. And I'm like, "Well, if your heart's not in it, your body's going to rebel against it."   Heba Shaheed:  (43:21) It's like even simple concepts like that could be the key that unlocks why a woman is having so much dysfunction.   Tahnee:  (43:31) Yeah. I can hear a little girl. Hello darling.   Heba Shaheed:  (43:35) She's dancing in the room.   Tahnee:  (43:37) Super.   Heba Shaheed:  (43:37) Spinning around, dancing.   Tahnee:  (43:39) Very cute.   Heba's Daughter: (43:39) Dah.   Tahnee:  (43:40) Yeah. It's you.   Tahnee:  (43:43) I'm curious-   Heba's Daughter: (43:47) Dah.   Tahnee:  (43:47) You're in a podcast darling.   Tahnee:  (43:50) I'm curious about complex trauma and pain and stuff, because one of the big epiphanies for me, I mean I was so scared of pain when I was 20. To the point where I've made some hilarious statements that now make me laugh. But I remember being 18 and 19 and saying, "There's no way I'm giving birth naturally. I need drugs to do that. I don't want to feel it." And obviously 10, 15 years later had a home birth naturally and blah blah. I changed. But a lot of the pain science and stuff I researched, I know that's an area you've studied a lot, like pain is just this completely subjective and incredibly difficult thing to measure and track. And so much of it is really due to this, I guess inability to be intimate with ourselves and to really give ourselves permission to have the full human experience, which is warts and all. It's not always sunshine and rainbows.   Tahnee:  (44:47) Is that kind of, I assume that's something because you work so much with really chronic difficult issues, is that something that you're always trying to educate people around? Is that, I'm not trying to say pain isn't real, because I feel like that's a really difficult thing to say, but it's sort of like from my experience, I've changed my relationship with sensation so much that pain and I have a very different relationship now. Is that what you're trying to work with people toward? Is to redefine their experiences, sensation and how they relate to their body?   Heba Shaheed:  (45:20) Absolutely. So it's all about perspective. We can create a relationship with our body that is pain driven. Or we can create a relationship with our body that's pleasure driven. Memories create little tags in your brain, neurotags, that can latch onto experiences as being with negative emotion or with positive emotion. And it depends on which part of your brain that you're using. We know that the right side of the brain is more associated with negative emotion, and the left side of the brain is more associated with positive emotion. Actually, we know that people, the ideal, so positive emotion isn't to do with being happy. Positive emotion is to do with not suffering. We don't want to suffer. And pain is an embodiment of suffering. We don't want to be in pain. If you're the type that is so fixated on not wanting to be in pain, that you'll use that-   Heba's Daughter: (46:25) Mum.   Tahnee:  (46:25) Exactly.   Heba Shaheed:  (46:31) If you're the type that doesn't want to be in pain, you'll become so fixated on that, you can become so fixated on that negative emotion, because you don't want to suffer, but unfortunately that actually propagates the feeling of suffering because you've become so fixated on that part of your brain that, because pain in itself is a negative emotion. Now here's the thing, right? Your brain actually doesn't know the difference between truth or lies. And this is a fact. It doesn't know. It's what you feed it. The food that you give your brain, food that you give your mind, is going to nourish it. If you're feeding it negative thoughts, which is fear of pain, and fear driven messages, and suffering driven messages, negative polarity based messages, then the brain will be nourished by that. And it will become hyper aware of that.   Heba Shaheed:  (47:28) But on the flip side, if you're feeding it positive thoughts, like I'm safe. I am content. If you're sending it positive messages, that will then nourish the brain in that sense. Think of it as like negative emotions and negative messages drying out the brain and making it hard and inflexible and uncomfortable. And positive thoughts and feelings and messages nourishing the brain and lubricating it, and filling it up that the brain is sitting in a soup, and it's relaxed and chill.   Heba Shaheed:  (48:01) Firstly a lot of it is just education on that sort of thing. Like visualisation based education, but then also anatomical and physiological based education in that explaining the actually neurophysiology of pain can be very helpful. But not just explaining that, but also getting them to do little workbook tasks to help them identify their patterns and behaviour. Because, remember a lot of it is beliefs driven as well. If you have this belief, that belief can be changed. We know that the brain is plastic, it's neoplastic. That means that it can be changed.   Heba Shaheed:  (48:40) Within three months, six months, 12 months, you'll have a completely different brain and cells in your body, if you continue to send it specific type of messages. That's why we can see a person, for example myself, I had like a 100 out of 10 pain 10 years ago. Literally every moment of every day was severe, excruciating neuropathic pain. From migraines to pelvic pain, or pain down my leg, sciatic nerve, and just like fibromyalgia type, like just horrific pain. That was because I was so fixated on the pain and the fear that I was always going to be in pain. Remember what I said about the head space being driven by fear.   Tahnee:  (49:29) I know. I call is the loop, like that constant feedback.   Heba Shaheed:  (49:32) That's right. And the thing is, that is very draining. That is very, very draining. Then you've got this rock hard brain that is completely devoid of lubrication, whereas today 10 years on, I can't even remember the last time I had a migraine. I can't remember the last time I had severe period pain. You can very drastically change it. And it's a constant work of it on daily basis. Obviously there are some times where I might regress and it's oftentimes where my mental state isn't well. Like if I fall into severe depression because of whatever, at the end of the day it is my thoughts and feelings. But certain events can trigger it.   Heba Shaheed:  (50:21) And that also comes down to trauma. We were talking about trauma just before, you mentioned trauma just before. Trauma, especially childhood trauma effects your hard-wiring. I was born into a very malevolent, narcissistic personality disorder family. To the point where there were times where I would be left by myself in the apartment crying my head off under the age of one, because of like no safety. No... Obviously that would've triggered a, what's it called? Fight or flight response in the brain. And we know that the nervous system is divided into two. Your sympathetic nervous system which is your fight, flight, freeze or fawn system. And your parasympathetic nervous system which is your relax, reproduce, digest, rest, chill system.   Heba Shaheed:  (51:17) If a baby is living in a chronic state of sympathetic nervous system hyperactivity, fight or flight, screaming and crying and being scared and feeling unsafe and all this sort of stuff, that's going to send your nervous system into overdrive. And your brain is just going to shrink, not shrink, but it's just going to become like that dried sponge. If it's a dried sponge, well all your nerves are coming out from your brain, well then those nerves aren't lubricated. Your immune system is then compromised. Your immune system is largely lubrication, right? It's mucous membranes.   Heba Shaheed:  (51:57) That's what I mean about going right back with my patients is that we're trying to figure out what caused this nervous system to go nuts? What caused your immune system to go nuts? And the musculoskeletal system is only the end product, the end thing. This all started way back when. It's like, "Okay, how do I then manage that?" Because I was one of those kids that when I was young, I had all this auto-immune stuff, like severe asthma, eczema, this condition called vitiligo where my skin turns white if I'm like severely stressed.   Tahnee:  (52:34) Yeah. I've seen that.   Heba Shaheed:  (52:36) It was just like super auto-immune type condition. And a lot of this stuff said, "Ah people say it's incurable. You'll just have to live with it. And maybe you'll grow out of it or something like that."   Tahnee:  (52:44) Those people are wrong.   Heba Shaheed:  (52:46) That's right. Exactly, because it's your immune system. Your immune system doesn't care, like it's trying to tell you that, "Help me. Help me. Save me. I need to feel safe."   Tahnee:  (53:03) This is the thing. If it's this line of defence, our protection and we're constantly being bombarded, like you're going to end up with immune responses.   Heba Shaheed:  (53:13) Mm-hmm (affirmative). If a patient comes to me and then they report to me that they had childhood asthma. I'm not going to be like, "Oh, you just had asthma." I'm going to be, "Woo, hang on."   Tahnee:  (53:21) Yeah, what happened?   Heba Shaheed:  (53:22) "Why did you have childhood asthma? Why did your immune system react like that?" And it's like 99% of the time that my patients will tell me and I'll be the first person that they've ever told, "Oh yes, this happened to me when I was little." Or something like that. There's a really, there's quite a correlation between persistent pelvic pain conditions and childhood trauma, whether we recognise it or not. And it could be just neglect. It could be neglect, it could be severe abuse, it could be sexual abuse, it could be physical abuse, emotional abuse. It could be anything. It could be sibling abuse, right?   Tahnee:  (53:55) I think even like-   Heba Shaheed:  (53:55) Or it could be bullying at school.   Tahnee:  (53:56) Yeah, I had a really, my family are loving and kind. But my parents had a really weird relationship and I'm super sensitive and I think took on a lot of that. And I disassociated from the body really early. I remember my mum having to be like, I'd be like, "I'm sick." And she's like, "Have you pooed today?" And I'd be like, "Oh yeah. I have to poo." I fully had that complete lack of biological connection. And it'd like that was my whole 20's it was working back to that. It's really interesting, because if I look at it, it's like I had a really happy childhood, but even just being in that energy all the time because I was sensitive to it.   Heba Shaheed:  (54:34) Absolutely.   Tahnee:  (54:35) It's like I can't [crosstalk 00:54:36] put blame onto them, but I have to do my own healing now to work out what my boundaries are.   Tahnee:  (54:43) And I'm curious, because you're an empathetic person and you're working with a lot of people's pain and suffering. Do you have boundaries for yourself on how much you can take on? Or how do you handle that sort of work?   Heba Shaheed:  (54:54) Ah yeah, for sure. I have massive, massive, massive boundaries. I only allow myself to work once to twice a week, and it depends on the week, it depends on my menstrual cycle.   Heba's Daughter: (55:09) I'm hungry.   Heba Shaheed:  (55:13) And with my patients, I used to think it was better to have breaks between patients, but it's not. For me, I need to just see them bang, bang, bang, one after the other with no break. Because then I don't allow all of the emotions to overwhelm me between patients.   Heba's Daughter: (55:32) I'm hungry. I'm hungry.   Heba Shaheed:  (55:35) That's my daughter crying out, "I'm hungry. I'm hungry."   Tahnee:  (55:38) I know, we're nearly finished, darling. They eat so much at three. My daughter's like a bottomless pit.   Heba Shaheed:  (55:44) I know.   Tahnee:  (55:44) It's ridiculous.   Heba Shaheed:  (55:48) Yeah, so.   Tahnee:  (55:50) Boundaries.   Heba Shaheed:  (55:50) Yeah, so boundaries. Yes, I discovered for myself that I need to see them bang, bang, bang, one after the other, because I couldn't allow myself to experience the overwhelm of emotion in between patients, because then it would be too draining to see the next patient. And then what I do is, I only, I actually see a lot of patients in one day. I can see between eight to 12 patients in one day, which is quite-   Tahnee:  (56:18) Whoa.   Heba Shaheed:  (56:18) A lot for-   Tahnee:  (56:18) That's heaps.   Heba Shaheed:  (56:20) Yeah. That's why I only work one to two days.   Tahnee:  (56:23) Yeah. Sure.   Heba Shaheed:  (56:23) And it depends. I do these really weird stuff, but before I go to work I tell myself, "Okay, who am I going to be today?"   Tahnee:  (56:38) Good. Yeah. I love this stuff.   Heba Shaheed:  (56:42) Which mask, which costume am I going to put on today? Even like now when I'm talking to you, this isn't the real, like it is, it's a part of me.   Tahnee:  (56:51) Yeah. It's one aspect of you.   Heba Shaheed:  (56:52) Mm-hmm (affirmative). But like the real me is actually very quiet and I kind of stick to myself, like a very introverted type of person. But, I'm like, "Okay, which costume am I going to put on today?" And that almost serves as like a physical barrier between my emotions and theirs. And then I have to physically tell myself, "Everything I feel today, none of this is my emotions. Anything that I feel," so like if I'm with a patient, the patient walks in and I immediately feel depressed, I'm like, "I know I am not depressed. She is depressed. Why is she depressed? What's happening?" Or if a patient walks in and they're like super happy, super excited and I suddenly feel like really bubbly and stuff, I'm like, "I know," I'm like, "Yes, I have the capacity," like obviously you have a capacity to be depressed and bubbly or whatever, "but in this moment every emotion that I'm feeling, is her emotion."   Heba Shaheed:  (57:45) Being conscious of that, so when the person walks in having that immediate consciousness of, "This isn't my emotion." And in that way I'm able to kind of, so I reflect. I imagine myself as a mirror and I'm reflecting her. So whatever I'm feeling is only hers. What I do, and this is a really amazing thing I've discovered is like I feel her emotion and then I allow myself to process her emotion, and then I actually speak out her emotion to her. I rationalise what she's feeling. And then she comes back to me with something, but it's allowed her to heal in that moment, that emotion that she was feeling, because instead of just feeling it inside, we've brought it to her outside. She's extroverted it out.   Heba Shaheed:  (58:30) And that in itself can be really powerful. What I've done, is I've also rationalised that it's not my feelings. It's like being very, very in the moment conscious of everything that you're feeling isn't actually your feeling, and it's theirs, but you're also letting them process their feelings. It's a really amazing thing to be an empath in the sense that you can allow other people to actually sort out their own feeling. It's a really amazing thing.   Tahnee:  (59:00) Yeah, in mirroring them.   Heba Shaheed:  (59:02) Yeah. And then-   Tahnee:  (59:04) Do you have meditation practises or anything as well around that? Or you just-   Heba Shaheed:  (59:07) What is it?   Tahnee:  (59:10) What do you do other... like yeah, obviously you're going to keep talking, so go. I jumped in.   Heba Shaheed:  (59:14) Oh, I was just saying and then at the end of the day I get on the train back home, and all I do is just filter everything out. I'm like, "Okay, what am I feeling right now? Is it mine? Or is it someone else's?" And then just letting it out. And then by the time I get to my car to go pick up my daughter, I've already sorted everything out, because I'm on the train for half an hour or whatever. It's like, "Okay, I've done it." And then it's like I could be super drained if I just let myself, because the thing is you have to filter them. Because in the past I hadn't done that and I would be so exhausted.   Tahnee:  (59:46) Oh it smashes you, yeah.   Heba Shaheed:  (59:47) After a day of work. Ah, my God, like I would be dead literally, and I'm just, "Leave me alone. Don't talk to me. I just cannot deal. I need to be on my own." But if you do that filtering process, and then you reflect on the day. And you reflect on how much you helped them, because remember as an empath helping other people, helps you as well. You feel that sense of, you get energy from that. And then it's the end of the day. And then I go pick up my daughter and I'm fine, because I know what's my feelings and what's not.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:00:17) I could do this every day if I wanted to, because I've kind of gotten really good at filtering my feelings, but I don't want to. Because I know there's a capacity to give, right? And a capacity to give, because we're giving people, but then there's also an importance of individually as well. I need to also be myself and do stuff that I want to do, and it's not always just about work and helping other people.   Tahnee:  (01:00:41) Yeah. And being a mum as well. For me certainly when I had my daughter, my priorities shifted a lot around she needs me more than others do a lot of the time. That's the priority.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:00:53) Absolutely. Especially that zero to seven really, it's like they need you, to nurture them.   Tahnee:  (01:01:02) Yeah. I wonder, I'll start wrapping up, but I was wondering if you had any advice for home care for the pelvic floor for people. Because I get frustrated that the Kegel thing, because I'm like that's not really good enough. But for so many people, it's pretty foreign territory down there. Is there stuff that people can-   Heba Shaheed:  (01:01:25) I'm not really a huge fan of Kegel, I actually am like well what the?   Tahnee:  (01:01:30) Yeah, it's just more tightening which people don't need.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:01:33) Yeah, so I don't. My focus for home care is more around your daily habits. We talked about it right at the beginning. Healthy bladder habits, going every three hours. Healthy bowels habits, going every day. And that means eating well, because we know your diet heavily influences your ability to empty your bowels. And just healthy bladder habits, healthy bowel habits, sexual health habits and vulva health habits as well. Like not using all these creams and douches and washes and all this stuff. The vagina's a self cleaning machine.   Tahnee:  (01:02:07) Leave it alone.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:02:08) Just use warm water. Yeah, just leave it. Don't put anything in there, except if you're having penetrative intercourse or if you're using jade eggs and whatever, that's okay as well. But, just leave it. Let it do its job, kind of thing. You don't want to mess with the PH and all that. And when you're having sex, simple hygiene practises.   Heba's Daughter: (01:02:31) [inaudible 01:02:31].   Heba Shaheed:  (01:02:31) Like washing your hands and stuff beforehand. And wiping from front to back. And emptying your bladder after sexual intercourse rather than before. And using a tissue. Stuff like that. Just simple sort of stuff. And even like the underwear that you wear and the pads that you wear. I'm a very, because I know this, I've seen it, like just simple thing of changing your pads to an organic cotton pad, or a menstrual cup or something, can be very helpful, rather than a lot of these mainstream pads and stuff that are like heavy with perfumes and toxins and stuff like that.   Tahnee:  (01:03:10) Yeah. And that stuff actually gets into your tissues and create issues.   Heba Shaheed:  (01:03:12) Mm-hmm (affirmative).   Heba's Daughter: (01:03:12) [crosstalk 01:03:12].   Tahnee:  (01:03:14) Yeah, inflammation. Okay, well, I think you have a little darling that needs you.   Tahnee:  (01:03:21) I will say thank you so much for your time and for this conversation. I really enjoyed speaking with you. And for anyone who wants to connect with Heba, she's on social media @thepelvicexpert and she's also online at www.thepelvicexpert.com.   Tahnee:  (01:03:36) I saw you have some courses up there. People can have online consultations. There's lots of ways people can reach you. Is there anything I've missed? Or anything else you wanted to add?   Heba Shaheed:  (01:03:46) Yeah, no that's all. If you are in Sydney and you do want to book a consult, if you have any complex

Transcription (was completed by automated process.  Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:00:00] All right. Welcome, everybody. We're so glad you're with us again today. This is a great week for us, celebrating the other week leading up to Easter. And I'm so excited to have lady on the phone with me again today for our next session. I was calling you. Beatty Carmichael is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field. Beatty, I'm super excited. I always look forward to our calls. What do you have for our listeners today?   [00:00:34] Well, today, Penny, we're going to do as we move into Easter. This will be coming out long after sometime long after Easter, probably. So at least now our listeners how long it is before from the time we do the call to the time they actually come out. But with that said, we're going to do a radical faith call for those who may be new on to our podcast.   [00:00:57] Radical Faith is where we diverge away from talking about real estate marketing and talk about what I believe is absolutely the most important thing, and that is our relationship with Christ. So if you don't have interest in that topic, you can go in and turn this episode off.   [00:01:14] Otherwise, I'd encourage you to listen and we're going to have a great discussion. This is a really cool topic that we're going to be talking about today. And Penny, would you like to guess what the topic is going to be?   [00:01:31] Well, if I think about what we've been discussing, I'm going to I'm going to generally guess something along the lines of the goodness of God.   [00:01:42] Well, that's a really broad statement, and I think it could definitely fit into that topic. The good thing you did. You did.   [00:01:51] I knew you aren't going to get to topic, by the way, for those who know how we do these on the radical face called Penny has no forewarning of what any of the topic is. So we call it a virgin call from that point. Right. So today, I want to talk about a matter of perspective, because I think especially right now, just to kind of log down where we are, no pun intended, log down. We're all down sheltered in place with a corona virus. This is this is technically mid April, pretty much right now. And most states have put a shelter in place. Law, you can't leave your house except for essential businesses. A lot of our real estate clients in some of their states, they've damed real estate non-essential. So it's been really tough. And the question is, how do we view what's going on? That's kind of a narrow focus. A broader focus of what I really want to talk about is as Christians, we're told to in Hebrews four 11, we're told to strive to enter into God's rest. We're told to rest in the Lord. And sometimes in our own phraseology, there is a I on a phrase that we'll use. And this is kind of the focus of what I want to talk about, which is how do you work from a position of rest? And have you ever heard that term working from a position of rest? Yes.   [00:03:30] Yes, I have. So in your estimation, what is that?   [00:03:38] It's working, but not using my strength or my will or my mindset or preconceived notions in order to accomplish that task. It's relying on my I can do it through me.   [00:03:56] It's realizing the Lord to do it through you. And what I want to do is I want to peel back the onion and really start peeling it back into a deeper and deeper layers and kind of show you at a deeper level. Working from a position of rest means what it looks like, how to begin to apply it to your life. Because as we work from a position of rest. I'm going to make a I'm going to make a statement that's going to sound a little far fetched, but I think by the time we get through this session, I'm going to be able to back it up and that working from a statement of a position of rest is always victorious. Think about this. A lot of times we work and we don't know if we're going to succeed, but when we work from a position of trust, it is always victorious. So let me start with our passage. I wanted to go through a quick overview real quickly, kind of give you a bird's eye view of the entire scope of what this whole concept of working from a position of breast is. And then I want to dig really deep into some scriptures that start to bring a lot more illumination to it. So let's turn real quickly to Hebrews three, verse 11. Hebrew. Because this is kind of where we start to see God's rest and I'll let you read it once you get there.   [00:05:23] All right. Hebrews three, verse 11. As I saw in my wrath, they shall not enter my raft, so they shall not enter my rest.   [00:05:33] So let me give you the backstory on this. This is pulled from the time of the exodus. This is when Moses said send out 12 spies to search out the promised land and check into it. And if you remember that God had been telling them, telling all of Israel, I'm leading you to the promised land. And in that promised land, it's going to be a land of milk and honey. It's going to be overflowing in abundance. You're going to live in houses you did not build. You're going to drink water from cisterns. You did not dig. You're going to eat grazed from vineyards that you did not plant. In other words, everything is going to be already fixed and ready for you. You remember that? Okay, then. So then Moses sent out spies into the land, 12 spies, one spy for each of the tribes of Israel. And what they wanted to do is go through, check out their land, see what's going on, and attest to the bountiful ness and abundance that was already there. The land was so fertile, if you remember. They cut a single stem of grapes and they had to carry it on a pole between two people because it was so full of grapes and so big and so heavy. This is the abundance of the land that the Lord has promised his children. So it's not just I'm going to give you a promise and your life is going to be a little bit better. The Lord sent them into this place of tremendous abundance, tremendous fruit, tremendous everything. And then do you remember what happened when those guys come back? I do not. Okay, so they give two reports, the first report is an abundant land. But do you remember the second report?   [00:07:34] I think it was that they saw giants in the land. That's right. The Giants were more than they could handle.   [00:07:41] That's right. So 10, 12 spies came back and gave a bad report that said, yes, it's abundant, but no, there's absolutely no way we can ever conquer. We were like grasshoppers in their eyes. And they gave a report from a man's perspective. The other two spies were a guy named Caleb and Joshua. They gave a report from God's perspective. And what do you think the difference between God's perspective versus man's perspective was?   [00:08:18] God's perspective was one of rest, not worry.   [00:08:23] That's right. One of rest not worry. One of, hey, we can conquer because the Lord is with us. The Lord has promised. Don't be afraid. Well, what happened is they became afraid. They believed the bad report, not the good report. And as a result, they became fearful and they would not move forward as a result. God says, well, we just read as I swore in my wrath. You will not enter my rest. And he makes them circle the mountain. All right. For now, this is about a year and a half into it, maybe two years. So he makes them circle that mountain for another 38 years. They were now in the wilderness. 40 years. One year for every day. The spies had gone out into the land. And God says those people who were afraid, who looked with their natural eye perspective. You will not enter my rest. Only those who have looked and looked from my perspective. That I'm gonna give you the land. You will enter my rest. And that's why Caleb and Josh were the only people of that generation that were actually able to cross into the promised land and enter into God's rest. So that's kind of the backstory. Does that make sense?   [00:09:44] Yes, it does. Okay, so now I want to give you kind of a synopsis of of taking it from there and talking a little bit more about what it means to work from a position of rest.   [00:09:57] And the key is it's work. It's not rest. Okay. So God's rest is not an attitude of cessation. Okay. It's technically it's an actual place. It's a place of abundance. Okay. But there is a there is a transition of going from the place where we are, which is a lack of abundance to the place where God has created for us that place of rest, which is abundance. And we see this in the micro and macro and the micro. We're always in a position of less abundance, moving towards God's promise of greater abundance, whether it's our spiritual life or any other part of our life. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Okay. So it's happening as we speak. But then at the macro level, in the big scheme of things, we also see that the trajectory of our life is continuing to be, in God's rest, great abundance, ending with eternal life and being in the heavenly places and for ages to come, as it says in officiants. So what we see with this passage in Exodus is kind of an allegory of our life. And I wanted to peel back that onion a little bit for you. So when they entered the Promised Land, they did not rest physically. Do you remember what happened when they transitioned from the wilderness into the promised land? There's something that never occurred during the wilderness that now started to occur all the time. Do you remember what that might be?   [00:11:43] I feel like it was. They complained a lot and they felt like their needs weren't being met.   [00:11:50] Almost. Okay. So they complained before they crossed the Jordan River, once they crossed the Jordan River. Now they're actually engaging into the promised land.   [00:12:02] Something else occurred.   [00:12:05] It was led by the priests. That thing that occurred was war. Now they had to fight for the promised land that had been promised them. They had to fight to take over the possession that had already been given them. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. And so when we move in to our promised land, this whole lot just make sure you can hear me now, is that correct?   [00:12:34] Yes. I got one little crackle there, but we're good.   [00:12:37] Okay, good. So they had to start going into and they started moving into battle. I want to kind of speed this up. So what happened is in a very a very high level sense, Joshua goes and he leaves the charge. Josh Wood leads the charge. And when he's leading, he's coming at it from a perspective that God has already given them the land. Therefore, victory is assured. And therefore, when they went out to fight, they went with the perspective, we are winning because God has promised it.   [00:13:14] Does that make sense that day when Joshua did that? Do you think there was any unrest in his spirit? Oh, my gosh. I wonder how this battle is going to come out.   [00:13:28] I think for me personally, if I put myself in his shoes, if I came out with that kind of statement to the people that I was leading, then I would have no doubt I would have no fear.   [00:13:39] He's asking me to just say that he's likely right.   [00:13:43] So we could then say that he fought from a position of rest because his spirit was at rest in peace, because a victory was assured. Does that make sense? Okay, so now we're starting to see. Working from a position of rest means it means working from the perspective of what God has already promised. And therefore, you can be assured of the outcome. And it's no longer scary. Then what happened is after Joshua and the Elders died off, then everything changed. The perspective of the leaders changed.   [00:14:20] This is now it gets us into the period of the judges. And if you remember, the judge's life was miserable. They were being attacked on all sides. They would try to go in and take over more of the promised land and they would lose and be defeated all the time because they no longer work from a position of rest. They worked from a position of fear. They started to see with or naturalized rather than their spiritual lives. They looked at the natural enemy that they are facing rather than looking at it from God's perspective of seeing the victory is already won.   [00:14:54] And then we move down the line for a couple of hundred years, and then another man comes out and comes to the scene. And this guy named David. Do you remember anything about a guy named David?   [00:15:10] Yes. Okay. And so does God, where it says that David was a man after God's own heart. Okay, so David is actually a foreshadow of Christ.   [00:15:25] Think about this.   [00:15:28] David was not of the line of Aaron, but yet Aaron is the priestly line. But yet, David was a priest.   [00:15:38] He wore the E. He danced before the Lord. He prophesied he did all kinds of priestly things. He was also of the royal line. Juda. And he was a king. He was a royal priest. And Jesus was a royal priest. He was royalty. And he was our high priest. And we are now royal. So we see this this poor shattering, this type of Christ coming online. And what happened with David? Is he engaged in battle? He engaged the same way that Joshua did.   [00:16:18] The victory was certain. Now he had some fear and some Currentzis concerns. We see that through Psalms, especially as he's been attacked by Saul. But he goes out and in faith, from God's perspective of his promise. He goes out and engages in battle and he wins. And he then conquers the promised land that God had promised his son, Solomon. Then comes on board and enters into the rest of the land. So as David goes in to the land, there's war and unrest.   [00:16:55] But there's constant victory. Then as Solomon comes on line, the land is at complete rest. And now Sollom Solomon gets to focus on building up the temple. Whereas David did not have that opportunity. So that's kind of the big picture. Do you see this in the macro? Yes. Yes, I do. So what we really see with all of this is this. Working from a position of trust comes first and foremost by faith.   [00:17:28] And faith being that title deed of that which is promised.   [00:17:32] So when we're in our lives and we search the scriptures, we spend our time and the word and the Lord reveals certain promises to us and we can work with confidence towards those promises, knowing that victory is certain. Now, what we may not know is the timing. But we know that the certainty of victory is there. And that certainty of victory that starts to create that working from a position of rest. All this making sense. Yes, absolutely. So now let me share one more. I want to share an illustration, and now we're about to take a deep dive into the scriptures. This is just a real quick overview. Here's an illustration of working from a position of rest, which is the knowledge of the outcome versus working from a position of undress, which is seeing things in the natural. Have you ever watched a really tense movie? Were you on the edge of your seat and your heart pounding? Your adrenaline rushing? Almost all the way through the movie? Yes.   [00:18:38] I hate that feeling. I know. I know. I hate it, too. So what caused that feeling?   [00:18:47] Uncertainty, not knowing what was going to happen and not being able to control the outcome.   [00:18:54] That's exactly right. You're looking at it from the perspective of that character. And the music, dun, dun, dun, dun dun, he's he's going into this dark room and he turns a corner and, you know, there's someone there. Right. That's about it. Okay. Now, once you watch that movie, if you were to go back and watch it the next day. Are you this tent and sitting on the edge of your seat?   [00:19:22] No. Why not?   [00:19:24] Because I know it's going to happen. That's right. You know the outcome. That second time through. You're watching it from a position of rest.   [00:19:36] It doesn't even get your heart beat up. Why? Because the outcome is certain. And therefore, you know the certainty of each outcome that nothing's going to happen. You know, generally, if you remember well, you know, generally what's going to happen. But if you don't remember, well, you know, there's not a big deal.   [00:19:56] And therefore, you're sitting watching it from a position of Resh while the person next to you. This is their first time through. They're scared to death. Do you see the difference of perspective? Yes. Okay. That's our Christian life. We can either look at this from our eyes and be scared to death. Or we can look at it from God's eyes and be a total peace. Why do you think, looking at it from God's eyes, you're at total peace?   [00:20:30] Because she's not worried about anything, then I don't have the right to be either.   [00:20:34] That's right. So what I want to do now, I want to show you a couple other scriptures where this gets manifested and then we're going to take a real deep dive. You ready? I'm ready. Okay, let's turn to Hebrews 11, verse 17, 18 and 19.   [00:20:53] All right. 17, 18 and 19 by faith. Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said through Isaac, shall your offspring be named? He considers that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which. Figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.   [00:21:24] Very good. So here's what happened. Abraham was at complete rest when he offered Isaac up as a sacrifice. Think about this in our perspective. We're going through tough times. Maybe your job, your your livelihood has been cut off because right now the shelter in place or because of other things that come up later in your life or you have situations with relationship or situations with help or with something else. And. You're scared. When you're scared is because you look at it with your own natural eyes. But think about Abraham. His only promised son. This is the son of the promise. All of his descendants is going to be name through Isaac. All of this inheritance is going to go through Isaac. And now God has told him to do something stupid and crazy for a man's perspective. Abraham, I want you to sacrifice your son to me. Your your your love of your life, the sun. I've said this is all the promises are coming through this one person. Now I want you to kill him. Do you see the turmoil that could really be going on?   [00:22:49] I can't even imagine.   [00:22:51] I can't either. And yet. According to scripture, there is no mention in scripture that Abraham was concerned at all. Why was he not concerned? What does it say?   [00:23:07] It says that he considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead.   [00:23:13] That's right. In other words, his perspective was from God's promise. Rumor says by faith, righteousness was read into Abraham, the promise. Faith is believing God's word, basically in real simple terms. So his faith in God's promise told him that the current situation had no bearing on the long term outcome. And because he had no bearing on the long term outcome. And the reason had no bearing because God's promises cannot fail. And therefore, if they cannot fail, the long term outcome is still intact, then it doesn't matter what happens right now. This is why it says that he considered that God was able to even raise him from the dead. He was fully expecting to kill his son. Stand back. And his son would miraculously come back to life. How many of us, when the Lord tells us to do something and it doesn't make sense in the natural naturalise, we say complete disaster. How many of us? Panic and cause that's not what most of us for sure. If we're going to work from a position of rest.   [00:24:36] And another way to say it is we're going to work from the promise, not to the promise, we hit that in just a moment. But if we're going to work from this position of respite, from the promise, from God's perspective, we got to do what God says to without questioning because. God has a perspective, we don't all we have to do is plug into that perspective and sometimes we don't know the perspective, but we know his promise and therefore we can rely on the promises that make sense. Yes.   [00:25:07] Okay, let's look at one more passage and then we're going to really take a nice deep dive. This is going to be fun. Okay. Matthew eight. Matthew eight versus 23 through 26.   [00:25:21] Twenty three or twenty six of Matthew eight. When he got into the boat, his disciples followed him and behold, there arose a great storm on the sea so that the boat was being swamped by the waves. But he was asleep. And they went and Wolken saying, save us, Lord, we are perishing. And he said to them, Why are you afraid? Oh, you have little faith. Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea. And there was a great calm. And the men marveled saying, what sort of man is this? That even the winds and the sea obey him. Huh?   [00:26:01] Let me ask you a question. What do you think was the perspective of Jesus?   [00:26:07] Rest, he not only rest. He was so restful. He was asleep in the middle of the storm.   [00:26:15] Yeah, well, it was the perspective of the disciples.   [00:26:19] Fear, worry. And they mean. They take what they're doing with their natural eyes.   [00:26:26] They know what was going on with their natural eyes and Jesus had a spiritual perspective. Perspective.   [00:26:35] All right. So we could say that Jesus was operating from a position of arrest. The disciples were operating from a position of natural sight. We can also say position of breath is a position of faith. Faith is God's perspective. Natural side is man's perspective, and they are always opposing each other. This is where Romans, eight says that the flesh can never please God because it is always at enmity with God. This makes sense. All of this is on this matter perspective.   [00:27:15] Now, let's start looking at perspective from God's perspective. This is going to be really cool. Let me let me just mention one thing. Perspective.   [00:27:30] Is everything perspective determines the outcome. You have God's perspective. And that creates one outcome you have man's perspective. It creates another outcome. Now, this isn't 100 percent true, but this is, generally speaking, the pattern that God's laws operate in. And we see this with Peter walking on the water. If you remember, when he's walking on the water, his perspective was where?   [00:28:04] When he was walking on the water, at first, his eyes run Jesus.   [00:28:08] That's right. So his perspective was on God's word.   [00:28:14] And God's word had inherent with it. A truth and that truth was you come on the water and you'll walk on the water with me. Then he changed his perspective. And what happened when he changed his flight? Where did he put his perspective in what happened?   [00:28:33] He started looking at the ways around town. So I took his eyes off Jesus and started looking at the water and the waves. And he became careful. Then what have you been thinking?   [00:28:48] There you go. So he changed his perspective from God's perspective, working from a position of rest to man's perspective, working from a position of natural sight, and by changing the perspective. The outcome was changed as well.   [00:29:06] Pretty cool. So now let's dig deep. So let's look at since everything focuses around God's perspective.   [00:29:12] Now let's look into what is God's perspective. This is going to be really cool. Let's look at a number of passages. Let's start with Revelation 13. Revelation 13. Eight.   [00:29:27] Revelation 13, verse eight says to all who dwell on earth will worship it. Everyone whose name has not been written before, the foundation of the world in the Book of Life of the Lamb who was slain.   [00:29:46] Let me also modify that translation just a little bit, I think this may be an I.V. I don't recall the same passage. Slight different translation that articulates a truth that is a little bit clearer. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast, all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's Book of life. The Lamb who was slain from the found from the creation of the world. To God's perspective, is this from the foundation of the world? The lamb was already slain.   [00:30:26] That promise manifestation.   [00:30:31] That was to come at a minimum 4000 years later, depending on how you look at the age of the Earth, 4000 years or 40 million, it doesn't matter. God's faith says the lamb was already slain. Long before the lamb was slain in the natural, does that make sense? That's the perspective of God. Let's look at this. Go to Ephesians one versus four and five.   [00:31:00] Okay.   [00:31:01] All right, effusions one, verse four and five. Even as he shows us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love, he predestined us for adoption to himself as son through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will from the foundation of the world.   [00:31:23] This is God's perspective from the foundation of the world.   [00:31:27] You were already chosen in Christ.   [00:31:33] Let's look at another Hebrews for three.   [00:31:39] All right. Hebrews four, verse three. For he who have believed for his who have believed entered that risk and as he said, as I swore in my RAF, they shall not enter my risk. All those his works were finished from the foundation of the world.   [00:32:01] So from the foundation of the world, God's perspective, all of his work had already been finished. Do you think this could be the work of Moses leading his people out of Egypt? Be. This could be the work of Christ on the cross. Yes. I think this could be the work that he's called us to do. Yes, it could. Yes, it could be all the works were finished before the foundation of the world. Let's look at Matthew 25 34.   [00:32:35] All right. Matthew, 25 versus 34. Says then the king will say to those on his right come you who are blessed by my father, inherit the kingdom, prepared for you from the foundation of the world.   [00:32:52] There we have it again. God's perspective is from the foundation of the world before it was created. The kingdom was already prepared for us.   [00:33:05] Let's look at one more Isaiah 46 versus nine and 10.   [00:33:13] Okay. All right, Isaiah 46 six, verse nine and 10. Remember the former things of old. For I am God. And there is no other. I am God. And there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning, from ancient times, things not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand. And I will accomplish all my purpose.   [00:33:37] So from God's perspective. From the foundation of the world. N had already been declared and finished. Before it began. What does this tell you about God's perspective?   [00:33:56] It's way bigger than our way, bigger than ours, right?   [00:34:02] So God's perspective is what faith looks like. Would you agree?   [00:34:07] Yes.   [00:34:10] From God's perspective. Before the foundation of the world, everything had already been finished. From God's perspective, think about in this way. God's perspective is things are truth, even when they have not manifested in the natural. Remember, we talked a while back on believe that you have received what you've asked for and then it shall be granted, you are from God's perspective. It's already been done. Now, this is not a name it and claim it. This is a name it and be it, as a friend of mine shared, name it and claim it as a perspective that says I'm naming something. I do not have. But name it and be it is a perspective of knowing what I already have. As a promise from God. But God's word is already said, and I am simply walking and living this out until it's manifested in my life. Do you see the difference between that? Yes, I do. So this working from a position of rest. It says God works six days and rested on the seventh, says that all of his works were finished. Working from a position of rest is. It's been done. It's finished. The outcome is assured. All I have to do is walk in faith for that outcome to be manifested in my life. This is why this story, Peter, is so important to others. But Peter's the clearest example, walking and working in reste. Gets one outcome, walking and working in fear gets another outcome. The outcome is assured as long as we operate and walk and faith. The outcome is not assured. If we ignore. God's perspective ignored trusting him and tried to do it on her own. Is this helping? Yes, absolutely. Okay, so then let's look at faith and the perspective of God a little bit more. Let's return real quickly. Foundational principles of faith. Romans, 10 17. Can you quoted or.   [00:36:49] You remember from from hearing by and hearing by what, by receiving the word of Christ. Yes. Sense 17. I get to change because I've got I've got my outline in front of me comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.   [00:37:16] That's right. Through the word of Christ. What is the word of Christ?   [00:37:22] The Bible. A little bit more. Everything that he said a little bit more.   [00:37:30] Oh, gosh. So let's talk on it this way. Will pull it off from John in the beginning was the word, the word and the word was with God and the word was God.   [00:37:48] So here we have in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. And the word was God and faith comes from hearing by the word of Christ, which is God himself. And John, 17, it says thy word is truth and where we come back to truth.   [00:38:10] God's perspective is one of truth and truth manifests itself in a natural way and acted on by faith. So we see kind of this circular. Faith comes from hearing by the word of Christ, which is God's truth, which is God himself. Faith is the perspective of God. And then we now faith is let's define a little bit different. It is the perspective of God. But what is God's perspective? Hebrews 11 one. You want to pull up Hebrews?   [00:38:46] Pull that up, because I do not that one off the top of my head.   [00:38:50] You actually did? No, it's just a matter of recalling this specific one.   [00:38:53] Yes, you're right. You're right. Now, faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.   [00:39:02] So it is the assurance of things hoped for. In Bible terms, hope for is an assured promise. It is not what we do, which is a variable that we're not sure. I hope it doesn't rain while I'm out here on my deck. Now, it is a hope, but that's not what the Bible talks about. The assurance of things, hope for the conviction of things not seen is the absolute certainty of what it is. And it's an absolute certainty because it is God's truth. Faith comes from hearing and hearing God's truth, the word of Christ. Another pass, another translation says that faith is the title deed of what has been promised. Even though we do not see it yet, we've got the title deed. So I want you to envision for a moment King David. He's out there fighting these battles. And I want you to picture this little caricature of King David. He's got a sword in one hand leading his army, charging in his other hand. He's got a crumpled up title deed that says the promised land is ours. This victory is mine. He's charging into battle, holding faith by one hand, holding the sword. And the other hand, because that faith, that title deed gives him the assurance of victory makes sense. Yes, that is working from a position of rest. Fighting for victory from a position of rest. It is working from from the promise. He's carrying the promise with him. And he's going into battle. The outcome is certain, those particular path of the battle.   [00:40:58] How many of his men he may lose? What's going to happen at any given moment? Those things are uncertain, but the outcome is guaranteed because it is the truth of God. So faith is when you look at things from God's perspective, not man's perspective. When you look at it from the promise, not to the promise. There's a number of different types of faith mentioned in scripture. I'm just going to kind of throw these out, see if this rings a bell by faith of faith through faith in faith. You remember those kind of passages used throughout scripture. So if faith comes from hearing the word of Christ is faith, therefore is the word of Christ. Faith, therefore, is Christ himself. And what we can translate with these is faith is Jesus, then it's by Jesus of Jesus, through Jesus. And Jesus. In other words, when we operate in faith, we're operating. In Christ, from Christ. And it's literally and technically Christ operating through us. We're abiding in him. He's abiding in us. We do nothing. He does it all. It's him living through us. What is it, Galatians? Three, two, twenty three. Twenty one of those. I'm crucified with Christ and is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me and through me. Okay, so that's kind of this perspective. So now I want to come back and I want to bring another perspective and kind of tie this together. We're almost finished, by the way. Is this exciting so far? Is this interesting?   [00:42:58] Yes. Love it. I love it.   [00:43:01] Okay, so now I want to talk about an old covenant versus new covenant. Old Covenant is the covenant given to Abraham, and that includes the law, the new covenant. The law has been fulfilled in us. The law is still in us. That's what Romans says. But the rightest requirements of the law have been fulfilled. Those of us in Christ. So the law is still present, but it's now fulfilled. But the covenant is a little bit. I want to I want to shift the focus of the covenant from the law to the promise of the fulfillment of that. So let's talk about the old covenant. First time with me to Hebrews 11, verse 13. So this is the Hall of Fame. Faith, the Hall of Fame. And this is a statement put in between as it kind of wraps up. What's going on in Hebrews 11 13?   [00:44:04] These all died in faith, not having received the things promised. But having seen them and greeted them from afar and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the years.   [00:44:18] Okay, so in the old covenant says that they were looking towards the promise, not from the promise, they were working towards the promise, the promise of the Messiah and of sonship being brought into the kingdom. Does that make sense? Yeah. Everything they did was from the outside looking in outside of the promise, looking into the problems. Now, let's contrast that with the new covenant and the new covenant. Let's go to Hebrews 11, first, 39 and 40.   [00:44:56] All right, 39 and 40 and all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised and God had provided something better for us. That apart from us, they should not be made perfect.   [00:45:11] So now this is basically saying the promise is ours.   [00:45:15] And apart from us, they were actually looking forward to us because we're the holder of the promise. So now, as the possessor of the promise, our perspective changes. We now are looking from inside a promise out rather than from them looking outside in where we work from. The promise they worked towards the promise is the same. Yes. Okay. Let's look at one more passage, Matthew, 28, verse 27 and 28.   [00:45:53] All right. Twenty eight. All right. 27, 28. Wait, are we sure we don't have a verse 27 in chapter 28?   [00:46:07] That's a start. It may be 26, but it starts and he took a cup and when he had given thanks. Here we found it. And he took the cup.   [00:46:18] And when he had given thanks, he gave it to them saying, drink it, all of you. This is my blood. The Covenant, which is poured out from many for their forgiveness. That's all right.   [00:46:30] Now, tell me the reference on that verse, if you would.   [00:46:34] The verses were right, but it's chapter 26, 26.   [00:46:38] That's where it was. Okay. So here's where he's going. And there's a word that sometimes you use and sometimes not. I'm going to use it here.   [00:46:48] Same drink of it, all of you. This is my blood. The new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sin. So now we had the inauguration of the New Covenant. We had the old covenant, the new covenant.   [00:47:02] We are to drink the blood of the cup and drink the cup, which is his blood. And that inaugurates the new covenant as we're abiding in the promise we're now operating from the promise because now the new covenant is in us, in the old covenant. They were looking towards a promise with us. We're looking from the promise. Making sense.   [00:47:29] Yes, absolutely.   [00:47:31] Yes. Okay, so the old covenant operates from an outside perspective, looking in the new covenant operates from an inside perspective, looking out. And we're going to take the same pattern in terms of how we operate and work. But I want to show you one more verse. Go to Matthew 17, verse 20.   [00:47:53] All right.   [00:47:53] Verse 20.   [00:47:55] He said to them, because of your little faith. Truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there and it will move and nothing will be impossible for you.   [00:48:11] All right, great. So this faith to Jesus is talking about. It is only possible when you're operating from inside the promise, from inside Christ, because if you're going to move a mountain.   [00:48:27] Now, this could be metaphorically backup. So mountains and scripture are pretty much government governmental authorities. They just asked him why could we not cast out this demon? Jesus says because of the littleness of your faith, the littleness of the perspective of God operating through you. This is a governmental authority that takes a lot more faith than what you try to operate in. That's basically kind of one way that we could interpret this. But he's using metaphorically a mountain. He's on. They just come down from mount to transfiguration. Okay, so you just come down from this mountain. So he's probably talking about that mountain. They just went up to a high mountain, it said prior.   [00:49:20] And so you said if you have faith like the grain of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, move from here to there and they'll move and nothing will be impossible. For you, that faith is only when you have the faith of Christ. Not the safe looking towards Christ. Does that make sense? Yes.   [00:49:45] Yes. This is kind of the old test, some old covenant versus new covenant. Old covenant. Look towards the promise. Through Man-Sized with a little bit of faith. New Covenant. Is the reality of working from the premise now kind of wrapping this back up to where I started the idea of working from a position of rest. Is working from the promise.   [00:50:16] Not to the promise it's working from inside.   [00:50:22] Looking out as opposed outside, looking in, maybe an easy way to try to understand this is imagine a really tall brick wall. And on the wall is running north south on the east side of the wall is this promise. This promise is whatever the promise may be in your life. It could be a new car. They could be victory in business. It could be health, it could be anything. It could be all kinds of different things. On the east side is a promise.   [00:51:00] On the west side of the wall is where you stand. On the west side of the wall. You cannot see the promise. Does that make sense? When we operate in the natural when we operate by our natural allies, all we see is a wall.   [00:51:23] And we have no idea what's on the other side. We work and we work and we work. And we're scared to death because we don't know what's going to happen. We pray and we plead with the Lord. Save me. Help me. Please do this, because we don't know what's going to happen, because our perspective is not God's perspective.   [00:51:47] From our perspective, this man's perspective, that is not working from a position of rest. It's working from a position of site and unrest and fear and fear. Exactly. Because site creates fear. Natural site creates fear. Because natural site, when in the presence of God's promise, natural site is always contrary to God's promise because it's all the flesh. God's promises are the spirit.   [00:52:20] So when we work from a position of rest, it's as if we walk around that brick wall and now we're on the east side and we see. The promise that God has given us and now we believe it, we're looking at it now with our Spiritualized. And we believe that as certainty, faith is the certainty of hope for is the title of doubt which has been promised.   [00:52:48] And now when we work, we work diligently towards it. But we have no fear that we will not achieve it.   [00:52:59] We know the outcome is certain. We know the victory of that promise is ours because it is. And God's word, God's word spoken to us, limited to us. Impress upon us. However he communicates. But that is the difference between working towards the promise, hoping in human terms, hoping that is going to become true versus working from the promise. It's already true. And now I'm simply doing the necessary labor for it to then be manifested in my life. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. That's what it looks like. To be seated in Christ. Be rooted in Christ, be rooted in his word, having the certainty of his word and his promise in our life and therefore moving forward with no fear. Can I share a little personal testimony on this? Absolutely. I've been in business since 1997.   [00:54:11] I've had some great ups and some great downs. One period time almost went bankrupt. And what's interesting is even the times where I was afraid, I always trusted the Lord. But I was still afraid you'd say this with David. He trusts the Lord. But when you read through Psalms, you see the fear come out. But every time the fear comes out, the psalm always ends with. And I trust in the Lord and he brings me victory is likely through writing the song. He comes back into God's perspective. You see him shift from that perspective to God's perspective. Well, I was during this period of time. And the Lord gave me a passage and the passage said, you will never suffer famine again among the nations because at that time we were in a famine financially and we were about to die financially. And ever since he gave me that passage, I'd been like Superman. I fear nothing. Shoot me up if you want to. They're just going to bounce off me. Why? Because I have the promise from God. And so it doesn't matter what situation we come into.   [00:55:25] I know we're not going to lose anything. I don't have to worry about losing the house. I don't have to worry about not having food. I don't even have to worry about. I've got my youngest child is in college right now. I don't even have to worry about how to pay the college bills because the promises will never suffer famine. Now, I've got a lot of other promises of a lot more abundance. But the simple promise was that now remembering one of my business groups, one of the ladies is a group called Vistage, business owners and business people that made work through different, different things. And one folks and one ladies in my group had asked the question because they've seen me over the years up and down, up and down. But always with the big dream, always with the certainty of victory. Always pressing forward. Always upbeat, regardless of what financials might say at the moment. Her question is, how do you do it? How do you keep your attitude so positive and keep going in the presence of all of the what we see as all the setbacks?   [00:56:42] And as I was contemplating that answer, you know, the answer is because I've been promised. We'll never suffer famine again. Never is, never. And it's a promise from God. And I can't tell you how incredible it is to operate from that position because it means I never have to fear. I don't. I don't take it on presumption. I work hard. I never have to worry about the outcome. Does that make sense?   [00:57:14] Absolutely. Yes.   [00:57:16] And that's what this is all about. That's what this is all about. That's working from the promise.   [00:57:23] Beatty, I was thinking of the verse and Hebrews Chapter 11 talked about without faith, it's impossible to please God. It goes on to say, because those who come to the father must believe that he exists and he rewards those who earnestly seek can. And that that verse kept popping up in my mind while you were sharing that testimony. It is that faith. It's your faith that you've had that where you have been able to see the promise. And I love that that's such a good thing.   [00:58:00] I'm so glad you brought that up, because I love that verse on the cutting table thinking it didn't really need to apply here at all.   [00:58:12] The lies at all. I love it. That's awesome.   [00:58:15] Yes, it does. Well, we got to close up. But do you have any final thoughts or comments before you wrap up?   [00:58:21] I don't. I just love the perspective today, and I hope our listeners are able to grasp that as well. Just knowing, like you said, that we do have that promise. And when we grab ahold of it and we see it with faith, knowing that God's giving it to us, that we can operate and rest and not in fear, no matter what's going on in the natural. And I think that's the key is is seeking the Lord, keeping our eyes fixed on the Lord and not letting our vision wander to the natural to what's going on around us, the waves and the wind. Easier said than done, but it can be done.   [00:58:59] I want to make one comment on this as to our real estate friends out there.   [00:59:04] When this Corona vase hit and people started going and shelter in place. I saw so much fear among so many of our clients and clients who follow the Lord. But they operated in fear.   [00:59:23] And I'd like to just speak to you guys for a quick moment. Stop looking at things in the natural. You've got to look at it from God's perspective, what God's word has shared with you and what he has illumined to you and hold that promise, because without faith, is it impossible to please them. And it's only by faith that you get the promise of faith. When you add by fear, you get the consequence of fear. And so it becomes says in the natural what we call a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can speak to words of fear. And it evaporates. The miracle of faith. And just like Peter, you can think and say. You see, I knew it was going to happen. No, you spoke it into existence. You take God's word and you focus on God's word and you speak God's word and you believe God's word because it is the word of God and it is truth. And by doing that action, God says, I am well pleased with you. Here's the promise that I've given you by faith and that your faith has now brought to bear. So do not fear. So focus on God's word. All right.   [01:00:53] That's awesome. All righty. This was great. Thank you so much. I agree with that. I want to encourage our real estate friends as well just to stay the course. Keep your eyes on the prize and keep your focus on the Lord. Don't allow other things around you to dictate what you're feeling and concerned about. You have nothing to fear when your eyes are on the Lord. So this was a great call today. Super excited. And we bless you all. Thank you so much for listening. And we're excited to be with you again very soon.   [01:01:26] Hey, man, you all be blessed. P021  

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Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:00:00] All right. Welcome, everybody. We're so glad you're with us again today. This is a great week for us, celebrating the other week leading up to Easter. And I'm so excited to have lady on the phone with me again today for our next session. I was calling you. Beatty Carmichael is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field. Beatty, I'm super excited. I always look forward to our calls. What do you have for our listeners today? [00:00:34] Well, today, Penny, we're going to do as we move into Easter. This will be coming out long after sometime long after Easter, probably. So at least now our listeners how long it is before from the time we do the call to the time they actually come out. But with that said, we're going to do a radical faith call for those who may be new on to our podcast. [00:00:57] Radical Faith is where we diverge away from talking about real estate marketing and talk about what I believe is absolutely the most important thing, and that is our relationship with Christ. So if you don't have interest in that topic, you can go in and turn this episode off. [00:01:14] Otherwise, I'd encourage you to listen and we're going to have a great discussion. This is a really cool topic that we're going to be talking about today. And Penny, would you like to guess what the topic is going to be? [00:01:31] Well, if I think about what we've been discussing, I'm going to I'm going to generally guess something along the lines of the goodness of God. [00:01:42] Well, that's a really broad statement, and I think it could definitely fit into that topic. The good thing you did. You did. [00:01:51] I knew you aren't going to get to topic, by the way, for those who know how we do these on the radical face called Penny has no forewarning of what any of the topic is. So we call it a virgin call from that point. Right. So today, I want to talk about a matter of perspective, because I think especially right now, just to kind of log down where we are, no pun intended, log down. We're all down sheltered in place with a corona virus. This is this is technically mid April, pretty much right now. And most states have put a shelter in place. Law, you can't leave your house except for essential businesses. A lot of our real estate clients in some of their states, they've damed real estate non-essential. So it's been really tough. And the question is, how do we view what's going on? That's kind of a narrow focus. A broader focus of what I really want to talk about is as Christians, we're told to in Hebrews four 11, we're told to strive to enter into God's rest. We're told to rest in the Lord. And sometimes in our own phraseology, there is a I on a phrase that we'll use. And this is kind of the focus of what I want to talk about, which is how do you work from a position of rest? And have you ever heard that term working from a position of rest? Yes. [00:03:30] Yes, I have. So in your estimation, what is that? [00:03:38] It's working, but not using my strength or my will or my mindset or preconceived notions in order to accomplish that task. It's relying on my I can do it through me. [00:03:56] It's realizing the Lord to do it through you. And what I want to do is I want to peel back the onion and really start peeling it back into a deeper and deeper layers and kind of show you at a deeper level. Working from a position of rest means what it looks like, how to begin to apply it to your life. Because as we work from a position of rest. I'm going to make a I'm going to make a statement that's going to sound a little far fetched, but I think by the time we get through this session, I'm going to be able to back it up and that working from a statement of a position of rest is always victorious. Think about this. A lot of times we work and we don't know if we're going to succeed, but when we work from a position of trust, it is always victorious. So let me start with our passage. I wanted to go through a quick overview real quickly, kind of give you a bird's eye view of the entire scope of what this whole concept of working from a position of breast is. And then I want to dig really deep into some scriptures that start to bring a lot more illumination to it. So let's turn real quickly to Hebrews three, verse 11. Hebrew. Because this is kind of where we start to see God's rest and I'll let you read it once you get there. [00:05:23] All right. Hebrews three, verse 11. As I saw in my wrath, they shall not enter my raft, so they shall not enter my rest. [00:05:33] So let me give you the backstory on this. This is pulled from the time of the exodus. This is when Moses said send out 12 spies to search out the promised land and check into it. And if you remember that God had been telling them, telling all of Israel, I'm leading you to the promised land. And in that promised land, it's going to be a land of milk and honey. It's going to be overflowing in abundance. You're going to live in houses you did not build. You're going to drink water from cisterns. You did not dig. You're going to eat grazed from vineyards that you did not plant. In other words, everything is going to be already fixed and ready for you. You remember that? Okay, then. So then Moses sent out spies into the land, 12 spies, one spy for each of the tribes of Israel. And what they wanted to do is go through, check out their land, see what's going on, and attest to the bountiful ness and abundance that was already there. The land was so fertile, if you remember. They cut a single stem of grapes and they had to carry it on a pole between two people because it was so full of grapes and so big and so heavy. This is the abundance of the land that the Lord has promised his children. So it's not just I'm going to give you a promise and your life is going to be a little bit better. The Lord sent them into this place of tremendous abundance, tremendous fruit, tremendous everything. And then do you remember what happened when those guys come back? I do not. Okay, so they give two reports, the first report is an abundant land. But do you remember the second report? [00:07:34] I think it was that they saw giants in the land. That's right. The Giants were more than they could handle. [00:07:41] That's right. So 10, 12 spies came back and gave a bad report that said, yes, it's abundant, but no, there's absolutely no way we can ever conquer. We were like grasshoppers in their eyes. And they gave a report from a man's perspective. The other two spies were a guy named Caleb and Joshua. They gave a report from God's perspective. And what do you think the difference between God's perspective versus man's perspective was? [00:08:18] God's perspective was one of rest, not worry. [00:08:23] That's right. One of rest not worry. One of, hey, we can conquer because the Lord is with us. The Lord has promised. Don't be afraid. Well, what happened is they became afraid. They believed the bad report, not the good report. And as a result, they became fearful and they would not move forward as a result. God says, well, we just read as I swore in my wrath. You will not enter my rest. And he makes them circle the mountain. All right. For now, this is about a year and a half into it, maybe two years. So he makes them circle that mountain for another 38 years. They were now in the wilderness. 40 years. One year for every day. The spies had gone out into the land. And God says those people who were afraid, who looked with their natural eye perspective. You will not enter my rest. Only those who have looked and looked from my perspective. That I'm gonna give you the land. You will enter my rest. And that's why Caleb and Josh were the only people of that generation that were actually able to cross into the promised land and enter into God's rest. So that's kind of the backstory. Does that make sense? [00:09:44] Yes, it does. Okay, so now I want to give you kind of a synopsis of of taking it from there and talking a little bit more about what it means to work from a position of rest. [00:09:57] And the key is it's work. It's not rest. Okay. So God's rest is not an attitude of cessation. Okay. It's technically it's an actual place. It's a place of abundance. Okay. But there is a there is a transition of going from the place where we are, which is a lack of abundance to the place where God has created for us that place of rest, which is abundance. And we see this in the micro and macro and the micro. We're always in a position of less abundance, moving towards God's promise of greater abundance, whether it's our spiritual life or any other part of our life. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Okay. So it's happening as we speak. But then at the macro level, in the big scheme of things, we also see that the trajectory of our life is continuing to be, in God's rest, great abundance, ending with eternal life and being in the heavenly places and for ages to come, as it says in officiants. So what we see with this passage in Exodus is kind of an allegory of our life. And I wanted to peel back that onion a little bit for you. So when they entered the Promised Land, they did not rest physically. Do you remember what happened when they transitioned from the wilderness into the promised land? There's something that never occurred during the wilderness that now started to occur all the time. Do you remember what that might be? [00:11:43] I feel like it was. They complained a lot and they felt like their needs weren't being met. [00:11:50] Almost. Okay. So they complained before they crossed the Jordan River, once they crossed the Jordan River. Now they're actually engaging into the promised land. [00:12:02] Something else occurred. [00:12:05] It was led by the priests. That thing that occurred was war. Now they had to fight for the promised land that had been promised them. They had to fight to take over the possession that had already been given them. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. And so when we move in to our promised land, this whole lot just make sure you can hear me now, is that correct? [00:12:34] Yes. I got one little crackle there, but we're good. [00:12:37] Okay, good. So they had to start going into and they started moving into battle. I want to kind of speed this up. So what happened is in a very a very high level sense, Joshua goes and he leaves the charge. Josh Wood leads the charge. And when he's leading, he's coming at it from a perspective that God has already given them the land. Therefore, victory is assured. And therefore, when they went out to fight, they went with the perspective, we are winning because God has promised it. [00:13:14] Does that make sense that day when Joshua did that? Do you think there was any unrest in his spirit? Oh, my gosh. I wonder how this battle is going to come out. [00:13:28] I think for me personally, if I put myself in his shoes, if I came out with that kind of statement to the people that I was leading, then I would have no doubt I would have no fear. [00:13:39] He's asking me to just say that he's likely right. [00:13:43] So we could then say that he fought from a position of rest because his spirit was at rest in peace, because a victory was assured. Does that make sense? Okay, so now we're starting to see. Working from a position of rest means it means working from the perspective of what God has already promised. And therefore, you can be assured of the outcome. And it's no longer scary. Then what happened is after Joshua and the Elders died off, then everything changed. The perspective of the leaders changed. [00:14:20] This is now it gets us into the period of the judges. And if you remember, the judge's life was miserable. They were being attacked on all sides. They would try to go in and take over more of the promised land and they would lose and be defeated all the time because they no longer work from a position of rest. They worked from a position of fear. They started to see with or naturalized rather than their spiritual lives. They looked at the natural enemy that they are facing rather than looking at it from God's perspective of seeing the victory is already won. [00:14:54] And then we move down the line for a couple of hundred years, and then another man comes out and comes to the scene. And this guy named David. Do you remember anything about a guy named David? [00:15:10] Yes. Okay. And so does God, where it says that David was a man after God's own heart. Okay, so David is actually a foreshadow of Christ. [00:15:25] Think about this. [00:15:28] David was not of the line of Aaron, but yet Aaron is the priestly line. But yet, David was a priest. [00:15:38] He wore the E. He danced before the Lord. He prophesied he did all kinds of priestly things. He was also of the royal line. Juda. And he was a king. He was a royal priest. And Jesus was a royal priest. He was royalty. And he was our high priest. And we are now royal. So we see this this poor shattering, this type of Christ coming online. And what happened with David? Is he engaged in battle? He engaged the same way that Joshua did. [00:16:18] The victory was certain. Now he had some fear and some Currentzis concerns. We see that through Psalms, especially as he's been attacked by Saul. But he goes out and in faith, from God's perspective of his promise. He goes out and engages in battle and he wins. And he then conquers the promised land that God had promised his son, Solomon. Then comes on board and enters into the rest of the land. So as David goes in to the land, there's war and unrest. [00:16:55] But there's constant victory. Then as Solomon comes on line, the land is at complete rest. And now Sollom Solomon gets to focus on building up the temple. Whereas David did not have that opportunity. So that's kind of the big picture. Do you see this in the macro? Yes. Yes, I do. So what we really see with all of this is this. Working from a position of trust comes first and foremost by faith. [00:17:28] And faith being that title deed of that which is promised. [00:17:32] So when we're in our lives and we search the scriptures, we spend our time and the word and the Lord reveals certain promises to us and we can work with confidence towards those promises, knowing that victory is certain. Now, what we may not know is the timing. But we know that the certainty of victory is there. And that certainty of victory that starts to create that working from a position of rest. All this making sense. Yes, absolutely. So now let me share one more. I want to share an illustration, and now we're about to take a deep dive into the scriptures. This is just a real quick overview. Here's an illustration of working from a position of rest, which is the knowledge of the outcome versus working from a position of undress, which is seeing things in the natural. Have you ever watched a really tense movie? Were you on the edge of your seat and your heart pounding? Your adrenaline rushing? Almost all the way through the movie? Yes. [00:18:38] I hate that feeling. I know. I know. I hate it, too. So what caused that feeling? [00:18:47] Uncertainty, not knowing what was going to happen and not being able to control the outcome. [00:18:54] That's exactly right. You're looking at it from the perspective of that character. And the music, dun, dun, dun, dun dun, he's he's going into this dark room and he turns a corner and, you know, there's someone there. Right. That's about it. Okay. Now, once you watch that movie, if you were to go back and watch it the next day. Are you this tent and sitting on the edge of your seat? [00:19:22] No. Why not? [00:19:24] Because I know it's going to happen. That's right. You know the outcome. That second time through. You're watching it from a position of rest. [00:19:36] It doesn't even get your heart beat up. Why? Because the outcome is certain. And therefore, you know the certainty of each outcome that nothing's going to happen. You know, generally, if you remember well, you know, generally what's going to happen. But if you don't remember, well, you know, there's not a big deal. [00:19:56] And therefore, you're sitting watching it from a position of Resh while the person next to you. This is their first time through. They're scared to death. Do you see the difference of perspective? Yes. Okay. That's our Christian life. We can either look at this from our eyes and be scared to death. Or we can look at it from God's eyes and be a total peace. Why do you think, looking at it from God's eyes, you're at total peace? [00:20:30] Because she's not worried about anything, then I don't have the right to be either. [00:20:34] That's right. So what I want to do now, I want to show you a couple other scriptures where this gets manifested and then we're going to take a real deep dive. You ready? I'm ready. Okay, let's turn to Hebrews 11, verse 17, 18 and 19. [00:20:53] All right. 17, 18 and 19 by faith. Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said through Isaac, shall your offspring be named? He considers that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which. Figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. [00:21:24] Very good. So here's what happened. Abraham was at complete rest when he offered Isaac up as a sacrifice. Think about this in our perspective. We're going through tough times. Maybe your job, your your livelihood has been cut off because right now the shelter in place or because of other things that come up later in your life or you have situations with relationship or situations with help or with something else. And. You're scared. When you're scared is because you look at it with your own natural eyes. But think about Abraham. His only promised son. This is the son of the promise. All of his descendants is going to be name through Isaac. All of this inheritance is going to go through Isaac. And now God has told him to do something stupid and crazy for a man's perspective. Abraham, I want you to sacrifice your son to me. Your your your love of your life, the sun. I've said this is all the promises are coming through this one person. Now I want you to kill him. Do you see the turmoil that could really be going on? [00:22:49] I can't even imagine. [00:22:51] I can't either. And yet. According to scripture, there is no mention in scripture that Abraham was concerned at all. Why was he not concerned? What does it say? [00:23:07] It says that he considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead. [00:23:13] That's right. In other words, his perspective was from God's promise. Rumor says by faith, righteousness was read into Abraham, the promise. Faith is believing God's word, basically in real simple terms. So his faith in God's promise told him that the current situation had no bearing on the long term outcome. And because he had no bearing on the long term outcome. And the reason had no bearing because God's promises cannot fail. And therefore, if they cannot fail, the long term outcome is still intact, then it doesn't matter what happens right now. This is why it says that he considered that God was able to even raise him from the dead. He was fully expecting to kill his son. Stand back. And his son would miraculously come back to life. How many of us, when the Lord tells us to do something and it doesn't make sense in the natural naturalise, we say complete disaster. How many of us? Panic and cause that's not what most of us for sure. If we're going to work from a position of rest. [00:24:36] And another way to say it is we're going to work from the promise, not to the promise, we hit that in just a moment. But if we're going to work from this position of respite, from the promise, from God's perspective, we got to do what God says to without questioning because. God has a perspective, we don't all we have to do is plug into that perspective and sometimes we don't know the perspective, but we know his promise and therefore we can rely on the promises that make sense. Yes. [00:25:07] Okay, let's look at one more passage and then we're going to really take a nice deep dive. This is going to be fun. Okay. Matthew eight. Matthew eight versus 23 through 26. [00:25:21] Twenty three or twenty six of Matthew eight. When he got into the boat, his disciples followed him and behold, there arose a great storm on the sea so that the boat was being swamped by the waves. But he was asleep. And they went and Wolken saying, save us, Lord, we are perishing. And he said to them, Why are you afraid? Oh, you have little faith. Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea. And there was a great calm. And the men marveled saying, what sort of man is this? That even the winds and the sea obey him. Huh? [00:26:01] Let me ask you a question. What do you think was the perspective of Jesus? [00:26:07] Rest, he not only rest. He was so restful. He was asleep in the middle of the storm. [00:26:15] Yeah, well, it was the perspective of the disciples. [00:26:19] Fear, worry. And they mean. They take what they're doing with their natural eyes. [00:26:26] They know what was going on with their natural eyes and Jesus had a spiritual perspective. Perspective. [00:26:35] All right. So we could say that Jesus was operating from a position of arrest. The disciples were operating from a position of natural sight. We can also say position of breath is a position of faith. Faith is God's perspective. Natural side is man's perspective, and they are always opposing each other. This is where Romans, eight says that the flesh can never please God because it is always at enmity with God. This makes sense. All of this is on this matter perspective. [00:27:15] Now, let's start looking at perspective from God's perspective. This is going to be really cool. Let me let me just mention one thing. Perspective. [00:27:30] Is everything perspective determines the outcome. You have God's perspective. And that creates one outcome you have man's perspective. It creates another outcome. Now, this isn't 100 percent true, but this is, generally speaking, the pattern that God's laws operate in. And we see this with Peter walking on the water. If you remember, when he's walking on the water, his perspective was where? [00:28:04] When he was walking on the water, at first, his eyes run Jesus. [00:28:08] That's right. So his perspective was on God's word. [00:28:14] And God's word had inherent with it. A truth and that truth was you come on the water and you'll walk on the water with me. Then he changed his perspective. And what happened when he changed his flight? Where did he put his perspective in what happened? [00:28:33] He started looking at the ways around town. So I took his eyes off Jesus and started looking at the water and the waves. And he became careful. Then what have you been thinking? [00:28:48] There you go. So he changed his perspective from God's perspective, working from a position of rest to man's perspective, working from a position of natural sight, and by changing the perspective. The outcome was changed as well. [00:29:06] Pretty cool. So now let's dig deep. So let's look at since everything focuses around God's perspective. [00:29:12] Now let's look into what is God's perspective. This is going to be really cool. Let's look at a number of passages. Let's start with Revelation 13. Revelation 13. Eight. [00:29:27] Revelation 13, verse eight says to all who dwell on earth will worship it. Everyone whose name has not been written before, the foundation of the world in the Book of Life of the Lamb who was slain. [00:29:46] Let me also modify that translation just a little bit, I think this may be an I.V. I don't recall the same passage. Slight different translation that articulates a truth that is a little bit clearer. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast, all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's Book of life. The Lamb who was slain from the found from the creation of the world. To God's perspective, is this from the foundation of the world? The lamb was already slain. [00:30:26] That promise manifestation. [00:30:31] That was to come at a minimum 4000 years later, depending on how you look at the age of the Earth, 4000 years or 40 million, it doesn't matter. God's faith says the lamb was already slain. Long before the lamb was slain in the natural, does that make sense? That's the perspective of God. Let's look at this. Go to Ephesians one versus four and five. [00:31:00] Okay. [00:31:01] All right, effusions one, verse four and five. Even as he shows us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him in love, he predestined us for adoption to himself as son through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will from the foundation of the world. [00:31:23] This is God's perspective from the foundation of the world. [00:31:27] You were already chosen in Christ. [00:31:33] Let's look at another Hebrews for three. [00:31:39] All right. Hebrews four, verse three. For he who have believed for his who have believed entered that risk and as he said, as I swore in my RAF, they shall not enter my risk. All those his works were finished from the foundation of the world. [00:32:01] So from the foundation of the world, God's perspective, all of his work had already been finished. Do you think this could be the work of Moses leading his people out of Egypt? Be. This could be the work of Christ on the cross. Yes. I think this could be the work that he's called us to do. Yes, it could. Yes, it could be all the works were finished before the foundation of the world. Let's look at Matthew 25 34. [00:32:35] All right. Matthew, 25 versus 34. Says then the king will say to those on his right come you who are blessed by my father, inherit the kingdom, prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [00:32:52] There we have it again. God's perspective is from the foundation of the world before it was created. The kingdom was already prepared for us. [00:33:05] Let's look at one more Isaiah 46 versus nine and 10. [00:33:13] Okay. All right, Isaiah 46 six, verse nine and 10. Remember the former things of old. For I am God. And there is no other. I am God. And there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning, from ancient times, things not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand. And I will accomplish all my purpose. [00:33:37] So from God's perspective. From the foundation of the world. N had already been declared and finished. Before it began. What does this tell you about God's perspective? [00:33:56] It's way bigger than our way, bigger than ours, right? [00:34:02] So God's perspective is what faith looks like. Would you agree? [00:34:07] Yes. [00:34:10] From God's perspective. Before the foundation of the world, everything had already been finished. From God's perspective, think about in this way. God's perspective is things are truth, even when they have not manifested in the natural. Remember, we talked a while back on believe that you have received what you've asked for and then it shall be granted, you are from God's perspective. It's already been done. Now, this is not a name it and claim it. This is a name it and be it, as a friend of mine shared, name it and claim it as a perspective that says I'm naming something. I do not have. But name it and be it is a perspective of knowing what I already have. As a promise from God. But God's word is already said, and I am simply walking and living this out until it's manifested in my life. Do you see the difference between that? Yes, I do. So this working from a position of rest. It says God works six days and rested on the seventh, says that all of his works were finished. Working from a position of rest is. It's been done. It's finished. The outcome is assured. All I have to do is walk in faith for that outcome to be manifested in my life. This is why this story, Peter, is so important to others. But Peter's the clearest example, walking and working in reste. Gets one outcome, walking and working in fear gets another outcome. The outcome is assured as long as we operate and walk and faith. The outcome is not assured. If we ignore. God's perspective ignored trusting him and tried to do it on her own. Is this helping? Yes, absolutely. Okay, so then let's look at faith and the perspective of God a little bit more. Let's return real quickly. Foundational principles of faith. Romans, 10 17. Can you quoted or. [00:36:49] You remember from from hearing by and hearing by what, by receiving the word of Christ. Yes. Sense 17. I get to change because I've got I've got my outline in front of me comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ. [00:37:16] That's right. Through the word of Christ. What is the word of Christ? [00:37:22] The Bible. A little bit more. Everything that he said a little bit more. [00:37:30] Oh, gosh. So let's talk on it this way. Will pull it off from John in the beginning was the word, the word and the word was with God and the word was God. [00:37:48] So here we have in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. And the word was God and faith comes from hearing by the word of Christ, which is God himself. And John, 17, it says thy word is truth and where we come back to truth. [00:38:10] God's perspective is one of truth and truth manifests itself in a natural way and acted on by faith. So we see kind of this circular. Faith comes from hearing by the word of Christ, which is God's truth, which is God himself. Faith is the perspective of God. And then we now faith is let's define a little bit different. It is the perspective of God. But what is God's perspective? Hebrews 11 one. You want to pull up Hebrews? [00:38:46] Pull that up, because I do not that one off the top of my head. [00:38:50] You actually did? No, it's just a matter of recalling this specific one. [00:38:53] Yes, you're right. You're right. Now, faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. [00:39:02] So it is the assurance of things hoped for. In Bible terms, hope for is an assured promise. It is not what we do, which is a variable that we're not sure. I hope it doesn't rain while I'm out here on my deck. Now, it is a hope, but that's not what the Bible talks about. The assurance of things, hope for the conviction of things not seen is the absolute certainty of what it is. And it's an absolute certainty because it is God's truth. Faith comes from hearing and hearing God's truth, the word of Christ. Another pass, another translation says that faith is the title deed of what has been promised. Even though we do not see it yet, we've got the title deed. So I want you to envision for a moment King David. He's out there fighting these battles. And I want you to picture this little caricature of King David. He's got a sword in one hand leading his army, charging in his other hand. He's got a crumpled up title deed that says the promised land is ours. This victory is mine. He's charging into battle, holding faith by one hand, holding the sword. And the other hand, because that faith, that title deed gives him the assurance of victory makes sense. Yes, that is working from a position of rest. Fighting for victory from a position of rest. It is working from from the promise. He's carrying the promise with him. And he's going into battle. The outcome is certain, those particular path of the battle. [00:40:58] How many of his men he may lose? What's going to happen at any given moment? Those things are uncertain, but the outcome is guaranteed because it is the truth of God. So faith is when you look at things from God's perspective, not man's perspective. When you look at it from the promise, not to the promise. There's a number of different types of faith mentioned in scripture. I'm just going to kind of throw these out, see if this rings a bell by faith of faith through faith in faith. You remember those kind of passages used throughout scripture. So if faith comes from hearing the word of Christ is faith, therefore is the word of Christ. Faith, therefore, is Christ himself. And what we can translate with these is faith is Jesus, then it's by Jesus of Jesus, through Jesus. And Jesus. In other words, when we operate in faith, we're operating. In Christ, from Christ. And it's literally and technically Christ operating through us. We're abiding in him. He's abiding in us. We do nothing. He does it all. It's him living through us. What is it, Galatians? Three, two, twenty three. Twenty one of those. I'm crucified with Christ and is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me and through me. Okay, so that's kind of this perspective. So now I want to come back and I want to bring another perspective and kind of tie this together. We're almost finished, by the way. Is this exciting so far? Is this interesting? [00:42:58] Yes. Love it. I love it. [00:43:01] Okay, so now I want to talk about an old covenant versus new covenant. Old Covenant is the covenant given to Abraham, and that includes the law, the new covenant. The law has been fulfilled in us. The law is still in us. That's what Romans says. But the rightest requirements of the law have been fulfilled. Those of us in Christ. So the law is still present, but it's now fulfilled. But the covenant is a little bit. I want to I want to shift the focus of the covenant from the law to the promise of the fulfillment of that. So let's talk about the old covenant. First time with me to Hebrews 11, verse 13. So this is the Hall of Fame. Faith, the Hall of Fame. And this is a statement put in between as it kind of wraps up. What's going on in Hebrews 11 13? [00:44:04] These all died in faith, not having received the things promised. But having seen them and greeted them from afar and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the years. [00:44:18] Okay, so in the old covenant says that they were looking towards the promise, not from the promise, they were working towards the promise, the promise of the Messiah and of sonship being brought into the kingdom. Does that make sense? Yeah. Everything they did was from the outside looking in outside of the promise, looking into the problems. Now, let's contrast that with the new covenant and the new covenant. Let's go to Hebrews 11, first, 39 and 40. [00:44:56] All right, 39 and 40 and all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised and God had provided something better for us. That apart from us, they should not be made perfect. [00:45:11] So now this is basically saying the promise is ours. [00:45:15] And apart from us, they were actually looking forward to us because we're the holder of the promise. So now, as the possessor of the promise, our perspective changes. We now are looking from inside a promise out rather than from them looking outside in where we work from. The promise they worked towards the promise is the same. Yes. Okay. Let's look at one more passage, Matthew, 28, verse 27 and 28. [00:45:53] All right. Twenty eight. All right. 27, 28. Wait, are we sure we don't have a verse 27 in chapter 28? [00:46:07] That's a start. It may be 26, but it starts and he took a cup and when he had given thanks. Here we found it. And he took the cup. [00:46:18] And when he had given thanks, he gave it to them saying, drink it, all of you. This is my blood. The Covenant, which is poured out from many for their forgiveness. That's all right. [00:46:30] Now, tell me the reference on that verse, if you would. [00:46:34] The verses were right, but it's chapter 26, 26. [00:46:38] That's where it was. Okay. So here's where he's going. And there's a word that sometimes you use and sometimes not. I'm going to use it here. [00:46:48] Same drink of it, all of you. This is my blood. The new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sin. So now we had the inauguration of the New Covenant. We had the old covenant, the new covenant. [00:47:02] We are to drink the blood of the cup and drink the cup, which is his blood. And that inaugurates the new covenant as we're abiding in the promise we're now operating from the promise because now the new covenant is in us, in the old covenant. They were looking towards a promise with us. We're looking from the promise. Making sense. [00:47:29] Yes, absolutely. [00:47:31] Yes. Okay, so the old covenant operates from an outside perspective, looking in the new covenant operates from an inside perspective, looking out. And we're going to take the same pattern in terms of how we operate and work. But I want to show you one more verse. Go to Matthew 17, verse 20. [00:47:53] All right. [00:47:53] Verse 20. [00:47:55] He said to them, because of your little faith. Truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, move from here to there and it will move and nothing will be impossible for you. [00:48:11] All right, great. So this faith to Jesus is talking about. It is only possible when you're operating from inside the promise, from inside Christ, because if you're going to move a mountain. [00:48:27] Now, this could be metaphorically backup. So mountains and scripture are pretty much government governmental authorities. They just asked him why could we not cast out this demon? Jesus says because of the littleness of your faith, the littleness of the perspective of God operating through you. This is a governmental authority that takes a lot more faith than what you try to operate in. That's basically kind of one way that we could interpret this. But he's using metaphorically a mountain. He's on. They just come down from mount to transfiguration. Okay, so you just come down from this mountain. So he's probably talking about that mountain. They just went up to a high mountain, it said prior. [00:49:20] And so you said if you have faith like the grain of a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, move from here to there and they'll move and nothing will be impossible. For you, that faith is only when you have the faith of Christ. Not the safe looking towards Christ. Does that make sense? Yes. [00:49:45] Yes. This is kind of the old test, some old covenant versus new covenant. Old covenant. Look towards the promise. Through Man-Sized with a little bit of faith. New Covenant. Is the reality of working from the premise now kind of wrapping this back up to where I started the idea of working from a position of rest. Is working from the promise. [00:50:16] Not to the promise it's working from inside. [00:50:22] Looking out as opposed outside, looking in, maybe an easy way to try to understand this is imagine a really tall brick wall. And on the wall is running north south on the east side of the wall is this promise. This promise is whatever the promise may be in your life. It could be a new car. They could be victory in business. It could be health, it could be anything. It could be all kinds of different things. On the east side is a promise. [00:51:00] On the west side of the wall is where you stand. On the west side of the wall. You cannot see the promise. Does that make sense? When we operate in the natural when we operate by our natural allies, all we see is a wall. [00:51:23] And we have no idea what's on the other side. We work and we work and we work. And we're scared to death because we don't know what's going to happen. We pray and we plead with the Lord. Save me. Help me. Please do this, because we don't know what's going to happen, because our perspective is not God's perspective. [00:51:47] From our perspective, this man's perspective, that is not working from a position of rest. It's working from a position of site and unrest and fear and fear. Exactly. Because site creates fear. Natural site creates fear. Because natural site, when in the presence of God's promise, natural site is always contrary to God's promise because it's all the flesh. God's promises are the spirit. [00:52:20] So when we work from a position of rest, it's as if we walk around that brick wall and now we're on the east side and we see. The promise that God has given us and now we believe it, we're looking at it now with our Spiritualized. And we believe that as certainty, faith is the certainty of hope for is the title of doubt which has been promised. [00:52:48] And now when we work, we work diligently towards it. But we have no fear that we will not achieve it. [00:52:59] We know the outcome is certain. We know the victory of that promise is ours because it is. And God's word, God's word spoken to us, limited to us. Impress upon us. However he communicates. But that is the difference between working towards the promise, hoping in human terms, hoping that is going to become true versus working from the promise. It's already true. And now I'm simply doing the necessary labor for it to then be manifested in my life. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. That's what it looks like. To be seated in Christ. Be rooted in Christ, be rooted in his word, having the certainty of his word and his promise in our life and therefore moving forward with no fear. Can I share a little personal testimony on this? Absolutely. I've been in business since 1997. [00:54:11] I've had some great ups and some great downs. One period time almost went bankrupt. And what's interesting is even the times where I was afraid, I always trusted the Lord. But I was still afraid you'd say this with David. He trusts the Lord. But when you read through Psalms, you see the fear come out. But every time the fear comes out, the psalm always ends with. And I trust in the Lord and he brings me victory is likely through writing the song. He comes back into God's perspective. You see him shift from that perspective to God's perspective. Well, I was during this period of time. And the Lord gave me a passage and the passage said, you will never suffer famine again among the nations because at that time we were in a famine financially and we were about to die financially. And ever since he gave me that passage, I'd been like Superman. I fear nothing. Shoot me up if you want to. They're just going to bounce off me. Why? Because I have the promise from God. And so it doesn't matter what situation we come into. [00:55:25] I know we're not going to lose anything. I don't have to worry about losing the house. I don't have to worry about not having food. I don't even have to worry about. I've got my youngest child is in college right now. I don't even have to worry about how to pay the college bills because the promises will never suffer famine. Now, I've got a lot of other promises of a lot more abundance. But the simple promise was that now remembering one of my business groups, one of the ladies is a group called Vistage, business owners and business people that made work through different, different things. And one folks and one ladies in my group had asked the question because they've seen me over the years up and down, up and down. But always with the big dream, always with the certainty of victory. Always pressing forward. Always upbeat, regardless of what financials might say at the moment. Her question is, how do you do it? How do you keep your attitude so positive and keep going in the presence of all of the what we see as all the setbacks? [00:56:42] And as I was contemplating that answer, you know, the answer is because I've been promised. We'll never suffer famine again. Never is, never. And it's a promise from God. And I can't tell you how incredible it is to operate from that position because it means I never have to fear. I don't. I don't take it on presumption. I work hard. I never have to worry about the outcome. Does that make sense? [00:57:14] Absolutely. Yes. [00:57:16] And that's what this is all about. That's what this is all about. That's working from the promise. [00:57:23] Beatty, I was thinking of the verse and Hebrews Chapter 11 talked about without faith, it's impossible to please God. It goes on to say, because those who come to the father must believe that he exists and he rewards those who earnestly seek can. And that that verse kept popping up in my mind while you were sharing that testimony. It is that faith. It's your faith that you've had that where you have been able to see the promise. And I love that that's such a good thing. [00:58:00] I'm so glad you brought that up, because I love that verse on the cutting table thinking it didn't really need to apply here at all. [00:58:12] The lies at all. I love it. That's awesome. [00:58:15] Yes, it does. Well, we got to close up. But do you have any final thoughts or comments before you wrap up? [00:58:21] I don't. I just love the perspective today, and I hope our listeners are able to grasp that as well. Just knowing, like you said, that we do have that promise. And when we grab ahold of it and we see it with faith, knowing that God's giving it to us, that we can operate and rest and not in fear, no matter what's going on in the natural. And I think that's the key is is seeking the Lord, keeping our eyes fixed on the Lord and not letting our vision wander to the natural to what's going on around us, the waves and the wind. Easier said than done, but it can be done. [00:58:59] I want to make one comment on this as to our real estate friends out there. [00:59:04] When this Corona vase hit and people started going and shelter in place. I saw so much fear among so many of our clients and clients who follow the Lord. But they operated in fear. [00:59:23] And I'd like to just speak to you guys for a quick moment. Stop looking at things in the natural. You've got to look at it from God's perspective, what God's word has shared with you and what he has illumined to you and hold that promise, because without faith, is it impossible to please them. And it's only by faith that you get the promise of faith. When you add by fear, you get the consequence of fear. And so it becomes says in the natural what we call a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can speak to words of fear. And it evaporates. The miracle of faith. And just like Peter, you can think and say. You see, I knew it was going to happen. No, you spoke it into existence. You take God's word and you focus on God's word and you speak God's word and you believe God's word because it is the word of God and it is truth. And by doing that action, God says, I am well pleased with you. Here's the promise that I've given you by faith and that your faith has now brought to bear. So do not fear. So focus on God's word. All right. [01:00:53] That's awesome. All righty. This was great. Thank you so much. I agree with that. I want to encourage our real estate friends as well just to stay the course. Keep your eyes on the prize and keep your focus on the Lord. Don't allow other things around you to dictate what you're feeling and concerned about. You have nothing to fear when your eyes are on the Lord. So this was a great call today. Super excited. And we bless you all. Thank you so much for listening. And we're excited to be with you again very soon. [01:01:26] Hey, man, you all be blessed. P064 [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

“I'm literally saying to myself that I'm proud of me. That I'm proud that I have the determination, that I had the natural drive to want to do something about something. That's a revolutionary.” Activist, entrepreneur, and former model Bethann Hardison recounts moments from her unconventional life. She shares personal stories from the streets of Bed Stuy to the runways of Paris and how she sought to hold the “powers that be” in fashion accountable for their actions.  Bethann Hardison is active in the fashion industry and continues to speak out around issues of diversity.

Welcome!   We are going to hit a number of topics today from the world of Technology. Primaries and Caucuses are underway and with that always comes the topic of technology and security and it is no different this year.  Apps are being developed and brought to market without being fully tested.  Extensions are being created that have ulterior purposes and are being downloaded by thousands and even more, on Tech Talk With Craig Peterson today on WGAN.  It is a busy show -- so stay tuned. For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Related Articles: Four States Use A Flaw Filled Mobile Voting App  Iranian Hackers Exploit VPNs Worldwide IT Disaster Recovery/Business Continuity Exacerbated by Coronavirus  Be Careful of Extensions on Chrome - Many found to Upload Your Private Data.  Sharp Increase in Exposed Records by Third-Party Applications Automotive Apps originally designed for Personal Owners cause headaches for rental agencies. 1.77 Billion  - That is how much Businesses lost last year to Business Email Compromises  Encrypted Communications for the Masses --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Hey, welcome, everybody. Craig Peterson here on WGAN. And we're live on Facebook. And we, of course, can be found over my website as well Craig Peterson, calm. We got a lot of topics for today's show. But we're going to start with the one that is really on everybody's minds right now is we see more of these primary elections beginning to come up, and we see problems. Well, I don't know, or are they problems or features? I guess they are problems with some of the election technology that has been used over in Iowa. New Hampshire's technology was rather straightforward as the Secretary of State in New Hampshire says, and it's hard to hack a pencil, although they're not using pencils. In New Hampshire. They are using felt pens, which are hard to hack as well. And these cards can like the cardboard that you would have in the back of a shirt when you purchase it. It's that type of cardboard that is not shiny or glossy, and then it goes through an optical reader that scans the ballot and places it in the bottom of that machine. An election official stands there to make sure that the balance legitimate. That you are not trying to stuff the ballot box, and that machine counts your vote. Now the unfortunate thing is those machines are kind of old in most states, some of them, I think maybe all of them are still running Windows XP, but there's no easy way to get it the operating system. It's never connected to a network. Even though some of these machines that have been examined and have patch levels zero or in other words, no patches of Windows XP, which is quite surprising when you get down to it. That is a big problem in many many cases. In New Hampshire, the primary went pretty well. Of course this weekend, the next one coming up, which is in Nevada. The Nevada caucuses. I don't know what to believe anymore because I've heard both sides of this. One that voting in Nevada is using the same technology that was used over in Iowa, which to me would be just a shocker and a whole big dismayed because it was just so terrible. As I've said on the radio before, in fact, this week when I was on with Ken and Matt, I think it was, might have been with Jim, I'm trying to remember who it was, which show. I pointed out how in when we're looking at some of this technology, we all well, not all of us, but some of us love the latest greatest technology. I'm one of those guys that like to stick with something that I know works and explore current technologies and newer things. But so many times we get just bamboozled as taxpayers because the people that are in control of the purse strings, they like the latest coolest stuff. They buy equipment from people they know hence the app and iOS. Former Hillary Clinton staffers ran the company chosen for use in Iowa, and I don't know how much vetting they did. We do know that the code wasn't checked. Homeland Security had offered. We also had offers coming in from Federal Investigation Bureaus and from several security companies saying, Hey, listen, we'd be glad to have a look at this. It was all closed source. It wasn't open-source where you can have a look at that software and say, yes, indeed, everything's legit. That is excellent software. People can find bugs in it. If they find a bug, they can report it, and it can get fixed, right? There are so many different things that they could have done when we're talking about trying to make this secure. I see Mary just joined us here on the Facebook Live and which is cool. She and I have worked several elections in the pas,t and we've been monitoring them. I have a son that's been one of these election officials. You know, part-time people that get pulled in to watch the voter checklist and things in New Hampshire, you have to have an ID to vote, which is weird, you know. I liked the way we did it here, Maine's doing the same thing. Most New England states are in fact as northern New England are doing the same thing where we have a felt pen, we have a piece of paper, we mark it down on that piece of paper, and we can then count it later on. If there's a problem, right? You can just go to that paper that sits in the closet, pull out the stack, bring it with you. And once you've done that, you can have a bunch of people sit around and think about Florida 20 years ago and what happened there with the hanging chads. They at least had a physical card they could look at although you know pregnant chats, hanging chads got to be quite the mess. So now we're getting concerned because of this new voting app that's out there. It's called Votz. V-O-T-Z is how they spell it. It's not the same one that was used the caucuses in Iowa. The app that the Democratic Party was using was trying to take the tabulations that were made by the people who were at all of these different precincts and figure out what the vote tallies were and then supposedly put it into the app and it gets sent up. This vote app that we're talking about right now goes a few steps beyond that. They want military personnel, and people are overseas to use it when they can't necessarily vote when they want to vote. It's, you know, panacea, maybe it's something we can get to in someday, but four states are going to use it this year. It has not undergone the trials that really should have gone down. And it's using a buzzword that I think got people's attention. And they're saying, Oh yeah, this is going to be safe because it's using this buzzword called blockchain technology. Blockchain technology is what used behind various cryptocurrencies, like Bitcoin and some of the others, to help secure the transaction. So the whole log is it signed each record inside the register is signed. Just because it has blockchain doesn't mean it's secure and doesn't make it properly designed. I've got a quote here in this article from MIT, is computer science artificial intelligence lab saying the whole thing is sloppy. It looks sloppy. It's in Georgetown Law. It's awe-inspiring. They were able to find such a pervasive set of vulnerabilities, said Matt Blaze and election security expert and computer science professor at Georgetown Law School. But we should also remember it's ultimately unsurprising that they would be able to do so because of every expert has warned against Internet voting as being vulnerable to flaws exactly like this goes on. The University of Michigan here Alex Halderman, saying that it makes vote seemed like a sham. So it is a sham. I think I think it's a real problem. But we're going to do it anyways and four states, including West Virginia, this year is going to be a mass. We've already seen what happened in Iowa. We saw excellent voting happen in New Hampshire. We're not sure what's happening this weekend in Nevada, then Super Tuesday is right on the heels. Some of these states are using these voting apps. Some of them are using the apps used in caucuses. I think thank goodness there aren't very many caucuses in the country. And we'll see, but one thing is guaranteed, and that is it will be quite the debacle. It is going to end up being a problem for everybody involved because they didn't vet this technology. Now, I reported on this a couple of weeks ago, this $10 million grant set aside by the Department of Defense grant, ultimately, and it was to design a voting machine that would be secure. A voting machine that we could trust. I think that's just wonderful. It hasn't really been tested yet. They brought it last year to one of these conferences like Black Hat and Defcon. They brought it out there. Every year there is a voting machine village where they have all kinds of voting machines there. They are asking people to go ahead and try and hack into the voting machines. We had a 15-year old that was able to hack a voting machine right there, and they compromised every voting machine except for the device under development on this $10 million contract. Now, that might seem impressive, and that might be kind of encouraging to some of us. I think it kind of is in some ways. However, the reason they did not hack it was it didn't work. They were not able to get it online and did not get it online until Sunday, which was the last day of the conference. And so no one got to test it out. But that was last year. Let's get them a little real a little bit under their belt, a little water under that bridge sometime, and they will be able to do it. And you know, I think they'll be able to do it ultimately, but I still will be the biggest proponent of a pencil and a piece of paper or a felt tip pen. The software, By the way, those votes VOATz software is being used in Denver, parts of Oregon, Utah and Washington State, we'll see what happens. West Virginia, as I said, is going to use it. But for disabled voters, the federal government requires all states to have electronic voting machines that can be used by disabled voters. I know here where I live in New Hampshire, we have a thing I don't know they might have passed. Now they're kind of getting old. Twins, twin women, and one of them was pretty much deaf, and the other one was pretty much blind. So they were able to help each other out in a massive way, which is kind of cool and get right down to it. But what they did is they kind of both helped each other to vote, but we all have in every precinct people who are there who can help people with disabilities. I don't like this requirement to have electronic voting machines. But the MIT researchers, these other researchers all agree with me. I'm very concerned about the Android phone and Android as a platform for people to use. I don't know if you are if you're using Android, you know, I'm always saying use iPhones much, much more secure. But I also am not looking at an iOS as being the problem. Cure-all for some of the voting machines. Anyhow, we are live on Facebook, as I'm putting the show together and shout out to everybody who is on there and asking questions. I appreciate it. And I will go back in and answer questions for anybody a little bit later on who has them, and I want you to stick around. I will be back here after the commercial break. We're going to be talking more about the latest in technology. We're going to be getting into these Iranian hackers that have been hacking VPN. If you think your VPN is safe. We've got another thing coming. So we're going to shut this one down. And we will be right back. Thanks for joining us, of course, Craig Peterson dot com. Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Craig Peterson here on WGAN and affiliates. You'll find me online at Craig peterson.com. And, of course, online at Facebook. I'm doing this Live on Facebook, and also out at YouTube. And we're going to talk right now about VPN. So hopefully, you have some understanding of them. But some exciting statistics came up this week from our friends in government. The FBI has been warning us a lot lately about what's been happening over in Iran what they've been doing, and we don't have kinetic war. In other words, we're not shooting at each other, which is a good thing, right? But Iranian hackers have been right at the forefront of trying to hack into our systems, and they've been relatively successful. I have a few clients that are in the defense industry, because we do, of course, the higher security stuff, right. And they have been under constant attack from Iran for about six, eight weeks now ever since the last little tussle with Iran might have been longer than that. And we're seeing sustained efforts to hack into them. Well, now we're getting a report from our friends over at ZD net here about Iranian hackers targeting these VPN services. So I thought I'd start by kind of explaining to everybody a little bit more about VPN services, what they are, what they offer. And because I'm hearing ads about this all the time, and frankly, it's driving me crazy, because the ads are telling me that Yeah, Craig you need a VPN because it's the only way you're going to be safe. It's the only way you're going to be secure in your day. You've got companies out there that used to be known for anti-virus, which of course nowadays we know antivirus software is zero percent effective against the latest hacks that are out there. So antivirus software companies are trying to figure out what's another way that we can make some money because people are starting to realize that this is a scam. And it's been a scam for a lot of years. You know, antivirus worked pretty well 15 years ago. It doesn't work at all today, as I just mentioned for the latest now malware nastiness that's out there. So some of these companies one that comes to mind. It was purchased not too long ago by another anti-malware company is running a lot of ads. They're saying this we need our VPN you need our credit watch. They've tied in, with one of these companies that watch your credit looking for transactions, it might be a bad guy, and I'm a little concerned because here's what usually is going on in the VPN industry. Running a good VPN is expensive. When you are using a VPN, all of your data, depending on what type of a VPN, how it's employed is encrypted from point to point. We're talking about the right ones and not those that you hear the ads for when you're using those types of VPNs. Your data is transmitted up to the VPN service provider. Then once it gets there, it is sent out to the internet. So let's say you're trying to go to my site, Craig Peterson, dot com. If you're using a VPN, your web browser is going to ask the VPN server Hey, can I get the Craig Peterson dot com? What's the best way to do it? How can I get there, and the VPN server will say Hold on a second. I'll get that page for you. Then the VPN server goes out to Craig Peterson dot com gets the page and sends it back to you. Now, that would be a caching or proxy VPN server. And some of them will just pass packets through. But the big concern I have is twofold. One of them is this whole Iran thing, and we'll get into that in just a minute. Because it isn't only Iran. But the other one remembers if something is free, or if it's inexpensive, who's the product? You the product! And since you're the product, what do you think they're making money off of selling your personal information, that's how they make their money. And that is a big problem as far as I'm concerned. So what some of these VPN services are doing is they are tracking you online. Some of them go the next step, and they're actually acting as full proxies, and they are sometimes acting as a man in the middle attacks. They're injecting things into your data stream that you weren't expecting. So where you think you're getting the VPN to have some security, and to have some privacy. Some of these VPN services are the exact opposite. They are reducing your privacy because what they're doing now is taking your data and selling it to the highest bidder that's out there, right. So I think that's a problem. And if you think it's a problem, maybe you shouldn't use some of these cheap VPN services. And I haven't gotten any I actually like, okay, I've heard advertisements on these radio stations, my shows airing on and I've checked them out, and I'm not comfortable with any of them. And the only VPNs I use or VPNs that I run, but remember, your data still has to hit the internet at some point. Remember, you're using one of these VPN services. versus your data is going to the VPN service provider. And at that point, it hits the internet. So it's now out on the internet. Well, if you're trying to make sure your data doesn't get on the internet, and people aren't hacking you, you've lost because your information does have to get to the internet. How are Internet Service Providers supposed to get to your bank? How are they supposed to get to my website? How did they suppose to get to Facebook or Google or YouTube? They have to go over the whole internet as well. If you're using one of these services, and they're going out to the internet. What do you think is a bigger target you at home, using the internet via your cable company or your telco or maybe your smart device. Is that one device a big target, or do you think that perhaps its the VPN service providers that are the bigger target, right? I'm not sure I need an answer because it's kind of a rhetorical question. The most significant marks out there when it comes to VPNs are these VPN service providers. And we're seeing warnings out there right now that Iranian hackers have targeted pulse secure, which has VPN software that they sell to businesses, shown to be insecure. Pulse Secure for the net. Another example of one of these security companies, right that has a VPN service, Palo Alto Networks, a company I have never used and never recommended either. I haven't recommended any of these companies to anybody ever. We've gone up against Palo Alto Networks in some proposals and contracts and, and they won them because of all the whiz-bang, not because they were the best of the safest, and so So there you go, Paul secure Fortinet, Palo Alto, and Citrix VPN are now being used to provide a back door into larger companies. So if you're a business person, I'm going to put these right now into this channel so that you can look it up for you or business and seeing and write this in as a comment over here in the Facebook Live that you can find online. Yes, go to Craig Peterson, calm slash Facebook. It'll take you to my Facebook channel. But there's the list of them. It is from an article that's out there on ZDnet. I think they have been publishing some great information lately. I've been using them in a number of my alerts that I send out as part of my Saturday morning emails. But some of these attacks have happened according to this firm called clear sky that Iranian hackers have targeted companies. From the IT telecommunications, oil, gas, aviation government and security sectors, why because that's where all the real money is. The particular report is dispelling frankly, the notion that it's their Russian and Chinese hackers or maybe North Korean because the Iranian hackers don't know what they're doing right. I've heard that before all Iran, don't worry about it. They know what they're doing. When in fact, yes, within hours of being disclosed, the Iranian hackers were right in there. It's terrifying. So keep an eye out. I look. Again, online at Craig Peterson, calm you'll find this article, and a whole lot more. Make sure you ask your IT department if you're using any of these VPN services or software. And by the way, in most of these cases, you can get patches to fix it. When we come back. We're going to be talking about Coronavirus and the new challenges right here on WGAN. Hey, welcome back Craig Peterson here WGAN and online at Craig Peterson dot com, of course, on Facebook as well. I am live on Facebook, and you can ask questions there you can watch this whole show as it unfurls, and you will find me there. You can ask questions almost anytime. We try and keep you up to date on what is happening out there in the world of technology. Well, you might not have thought of coronavirus as anything more than just a piece of nastiness, right. The virus I know some people are saying well you know we haven't had as many deaths from the Coronavirus, also known as covin-19. I was trying to remember the name little earlier. We haven't had as many deaths from that as we have from our regular flu virus every year. Right now is the peak of flu season in the northeast and Anyways, and in many parts of the country, and what is there to worry about, right? Is it going to hit us? It seems to be slowing down. We don't have a whole lot of information from our socialist friends in China. Like most socialist governments, they play things very close to the chest. They don't want people to know what's happening, including their citizens. But we have some new fears now, and this is a great little article that I have found over on dark reading. It's pointing out some of the security challenges that we're facing, because of the whole Coronavirus thing. Everybody's heard about it, everybody's scared of it. And when you get right down to it, you're watching me right now listening to me talking about the Coronavirus because it is an exciting thing to understand. The CDC has not only maps of where the Coronaviruses hitting right now, but the CDC also has information about general flu viruses this time of year. There are outbreaks of different diseases, what's happening where CDC.gov now I've seen some fake stuff like CDC, dash gov.org, just all kinds of fake sites. With phishing, we've got to make sure that all of our employees, family, friends, know not to click on any of those links. Don't click on them. However, people do and when you click on them, who knows what's going to happen, you might be downloading malware, you might just be confirming this is a valid email address for more and future spamming, right there might be a lot of different things that it can do to you. Don't do that. The next one I think that that's very interesting is something most businesses have not addressed. What would happen if maybe covid-19, or something else, actually becomes a pandemic? What if it is not even a pandemic. What if you have an office with five or ten people in it and everybody comes down with the flu or cold? At the same time? Have you prepared for a business continuity challenge? And it isn't just what might happen if you're sick. It might also be a little bit further than that. What might happen if the business burns down? Or there's flooding, or no one can get into the office for a day or two because of some natural disaster? Maybe, it's just a really nasty ice storm like we had here? What a decade ago, where there were portions of New England that had no power for six weeks, in the middle of winter. That's a very, very big deal. What would your business do? Most people will haven't had a good hard look at business continuity, just in general, although we really should. And when we've got the cyber attackers coming after us, it also brings to mind what would happen if they got through, and let's say it was a version of ransomware that encrypted all of your data or deleted all of your data and demanded a ransom. Are you going to be able to handle that? Right? It's a big question. Will you be able to continue with your IT people, whether they're outsourced or in-house? How about your security operations people? It could be a huge problem. Let's move it up-scale because I know we've got a lot of people listening, who have more substantial companies. Maybe a 200 person company, perhaps something more prominent and it would be interesting to know you can just drop it in the channel like to know a little bit. But if you've got to hundred people working in one building and it's a contagious virus that's getting spread, the odds are pretty darn good, that 10 to 15% of your workforce is going to get nailed with that bug. Okay. Here's an example from the article. If it's by the way, if it's something that might be pandemic, there's an excellent chance the government's going to quarantine everybody anyways, whether the people get sick or not. Okay, and what's that going to do to your business? It is a consultant over Accenture working in Mexico City during the h1 in one virus spread ten years ago. They were saying that the current quarantine protocols are 14 days. So think about that. What happens if your business if your employees are out for 14 days if you've got a large outsource facility. Your security management, any facility, with a large number of people and you probably don't want to bring 100 people together and put them in a small room unless you-yourself have evidence that none of them have been affected. The second part of the challenges they may not be able to get there even want to get there. Now, this is the business continuity side. Can your business continue if there is a spread of these types of diseases, this could be huge? Some Indian companies have reported, according to dark reading, they've reported disruptions because of stoppages and shipments from China. They've got 45,000 Plus Now I don't know what the number is confirmed infections over 1000 deaths. So if you part of your supply chain now is affected, in this case with the Covid-19. Of course, most businesses are worried about the supply chain from China. There's supply chain manufacturing the low-cost components from China to Indonesia and all kinds of places in Southeast Asia what happens if that goes away too? If you have parts being made anywhere in the world, keep in mind that businesses are starting to move if they haven't already. Then with all of the phishing that's going on, It can get to be a very big problem. Proof point and Cisco Talos have reported messages purporting to provide tips for virus protection. They appeared to be sent not only by official government organizations but by the own businesses itself, upper management. So there's an example of spearfishing going after a specific company, and the messages get used to stealing credentials drop malware like mo tap, and in lures specifically targeting manufacturing and shipping industries. The nano core remote access software, these are back doors, like the kind I've talked about on the show that we have found in business and that is before backdoors get put in there by China or that Iran now has become a big player in all of this. So very, very big problems. Hey, if you have joined me on Facebook for the Facebook Live Welcome, welcome. I appreciate the comments, like seeing the thumbs up, so please do give that to me. Otherwise, you can find me online at Craig Peterson dot com. I post all of everything we talked about every week, right there Craig Peterson dot com and I started sharing videos and, and other things as well on YouTube and a little bit more on Facebook. When we come back after the break, we've got more to discuss. Next up. We're going to talk about these 500 Chrome extensions that have been secretly uploading people's information. How's that for a scary thing? So stick around because we'll be right back. If you are on Facebook Live. We're going to end this Facebook Live and start another one with our new topic in about five minutes on the radio. We'll be back even quicker than that. So stick around. Hold on one sec. Here we go, everybody. Welcome. Welcome Craig Peterson here on WGAN and elsewhere. Of course, also on Facebook, Facebook live is where you'll find me there. Just go to Craig Peterson dot com slash Facebook. You can sign up for my weekly newsletter, where I make sure you have all of the latest news, everything that you need to know. And right now we're going to talk about everybody's favorite browser while except for mine. One of the companies that we use goes by the name of Duo and what they have recently found out about our friends over at Google and Chrome. If you are a big follower of mine, and you've attended some of my pop-up training, I do quite a few of them. Those are always free and, and I have some tutorials as well. I talk a lot about extensions because there are quite several extensions that can be fantastic. And I use them all of the time. If I were to bring up my browser here, you would see a whole bunch of extensions that I use continually. I use them to block certain advertising types, and I use them to prevent various kinds of malware. I have some extensions that use artificial intelligence to figure out what is this page trying to do? Because we've got things like pop-unders, where it opened something up, and it has little timer was saved for an hour, and then it pops up to this big scary message that you need to update windows or update something now Because it's out of date, and there are hackers out there that are trying to get you. And that's called, by the way, scareware. But it comes through your browser, and you have no idea. So some of these extensions that I use are specifically designed to look at the source code on the page, look at not just the HTML, obviously, but look at the JavaScript or so much stuff is hidden. So it pulls in all these pieces of JavaScript. Usually, they're removed in from multiple sites and assembles them has a look at them, and will even change them based on what it finds. Now, those are beneficial extensions. Then on the other side, there are these toolbar extensions. I don't know if you've used these before, man, these used to be all of the rages, and I still see them installed in people's computers. And these toolbar extensions give you a little bit of extra something sooner, just a call right in These extensions going to track you when you're online and shopping and tell you where the best deal is? Well, yeah, it's following you, right? It knows that you're on a shopping site because you give that extension access to all of your browsing history. Then it knows what you're looking at up the site and knows what you are searching. Because so many of these extensions come with their little search bar up top right. Yahoo was one of the big guys out there in this browser bar extension business. And every last one of them at the very least, despite you. Now, that's bad, right that it's bad enough. But now we're looking at this same mo wait a minute here. We have now uncovered 500 Chrome extensions that have been secretly uploading the private data from millions of users. Huge deal. An article in Ars Technica, if you are over on the Facebook Live, you'll see the article, right there has a direct link to it. But this is very bad. It was just discovered on Thursday here. It's been just about just over a week. And we found out from these guys, that what had happened is that these website extensions had more than 1.7 million installations. It was an independent researcher who worked with Cisco's own Duo Security. And they found all of these things. They then reported it privately to Google and the researchers and found 71. Google looked at what the researchers had seen, and how those extensions were coded up and how they we're behaving. Then Google found an additional 430 extensions. And Google has removed all known extensions that were doing this. So that's the right side of it. But that's the known extensions. Those are the extensions that we're doing something that looks suspicious that Google and the security researchers could identify. In this case, reported here, the Chrome extension creators and specifically made extensions that obfuscated the underlying advertising functionality from users. Now it did say advertising in this quote because here's another thing that they do. If you visit a website, and you have an extension installed, that has access to the websites that you're visiting, here's what they've been doing. They look for ads from their customers, so you've got a bad guy, Inc. Okay. And then what better guy he does is he goes out and says, Hey, listen, I can get you 1000 collects of thousand new views of your page, just pay me up. Then what they'll do is they will play some ads for you. These are pay-per-click ads. Every time someone clicks on an ad, they have to pay, right, and some of these ads are cheap at five cents. You don't see that too much anymore. Some of them are $500 for a single click. That money then goes to Google, who then shares it with whoever had the website where the click originated. Okay, so it's a pretty lucrative business if you as a bad guy that could guarantee clicks on these expensive websites That is what they're doing with some of these extensions. They are watching the pages you're visiting to look for an ad from one of these sites that they get some money fro, but now they can have your browser click on the ad unbeknownst to you. Your browser now clicks on that ad. They make some money because they have the fake ads that are up so all kinds of nastiness. The other side of this is let's say the bad guys want their competitors to stop advertising online. Let's say they make cups, and I make this glass. Other companies out there that make a blue glass kind of like this. They find out what are the ads this other blue glass company is running. They have their little extensions out there. They hire these people that only extension to then clicks on the competitor's ads automatically for them. The competitor might have a five hundred dollar a day limit with Facebook ads, and all of a sudden now that five hundred whatever it is they're spending where they've put a cap on it, right? So whatever it is they're spending is being 100% wasted, because you don't even see the ad. There are so many ways that the bad guys are using these extensions. It is a maze of redirects, malware, and more. Some of these plugins will do Bitcoin mining or other types of blockchain cryptocurrency mining out there. Man, there's just all kinds of them hardcoded control servers, which by the way, I've got another tutorial coming out telling you how to stop your computer from going on to some of these command and control servers. And that's going to be phenomenal for you. So keep an eye out for that coming up in a couple of weeks. Many the redirections because they're using redirections, as well as part of this, go to ads for products or Macy's, Dell, Best Buy large volume of ad content, as many as 30 redirects, the deliberate concealment of most ads from end-users and the use of the ad redirect streams to send infected browsers to malware and phishing sites. It goes on the bottom line, beware of extensions, but I also want you to be aware of apps, right? What are the apps that you are using? What are those apps providing you with? Now I'm talking about apps that are on your smartphone or on your tablet, maybe some programs that are on your computers. Okay, they're out there? What are those apps Are those apps something that you need? Many of them spy on you, which is another dangerous thing. They're stealing your data. They're taking the information they're sending to the bad guys. Right? It just goes on and on. So make sure you don't do that it is dangerous stuff. All right, I am doing this radio show on Facebook Live. If you want to follow me on Facebook, it's easy enough to do Craig Peterson comm slash Facebook. And if you are not a Facebook fan, and there are a lot of reasons not to be a Facebook fan, then you can also see a lot of these videos up on YouTube. I do YouTube lives, as well. You'll find that at Craig Peterson comm slash YouTube. And of course, you're listening on the radio, and you're going to find me on pretty much every streaming service that's out there. So I want to quickly ask a question - which browser do you use? If I say create a poll? What's going to happen here? Oh, there it is. I'm going to publish it right now. I see. Okay. All right. So far it's showing up. I should have clicked this a little bit earlier. So Facebook Live, you have a poll. Do you prefer Google Chrome, Firefox, Microsoft Edge, or Opera? And I personally use Firefox and Opera, Google Chrome and edge I don't trust particular Google Chrome, however, There are times when you have to use one of those two browsers, because your company might be using a website that's specifically programmed to only work with that particular browser. There. There might be other reasons, but let me know. Click on it there. If you are not watching me on facebook right now Facebook Live, go ahead and answer that poll. I'd really like to know or just drop me an email me at Craig Peterson calm. Let me know what your favorite browser is and why. And make sure that you delete every extension you don't need. Every app you don't use and don't need. We've got to cut back because it just presents such a broad attack surface to the bad guys. All right. Okay, so let's see end of this segment. When we come back, we of course, have a whole lot more to talk about. We're going to talk about third party breaches, what's been happening. It's increased sharply in 2019. If you are a business person, this is for you. Your listening to Craig Peterson WGAN and online at Craig Peterson dot com hello everybody welcome back Craig Peterson here on WGAN or also on Facebook Live if you have any questions, by all means drop them right here into the channel can always ask me a question to online anytime. Just email me and he had Craig Peterson calm more than happy to respond. You might have to have a little bit of patients I do try and get back ASAP. But if someone or my staff is not noticing or final notice Don't feel bad. It's not as though we hate you. But we do try and answer every question that comes our way just me at Craig peterson.com. We're going to talk right now about third party risks whether you are a small business or a little large business, this is a huge deal. very huge deal. And it's also a huge deal if you are an individual, because you are dealing with everything from Cloud services through a milk delivery company. All of these are third party services provided by third party companies. And many of them have information about us. And I've heard from so many businesses lately, that are now required under the new federal standards, the CMC standards, that they don't think that they really apply to them because they're not a primary government contractor. It's they don't have a whole lot or any personally identifiable information. You know, why? Why would you come after me? I just don't matter in the whole big scheme of things. So it's not something that I should have to worry about. When the law is clear, they do have to worry about it, but they're still not worried about it. And I think the biggest reason is because people just don't understand the risks involved. You're using Google spreadsheets, for instance, Google docs for me, you know, Microsoft Word replacement. And, and Google also has kind of a PowerPoint thing called Google Sheets, I think it is, or slides, Google Slides that you can use in order to put the presentation together. And even to show a presentation. It's, it's really rather cool stuff all the way around. But this is an example of a third party vendor. We already know that Google is looking at all of those documents and trying to figure out what a can use from that and in order to sell us stuff, right or do seller information to third parties. And in that's obviously a bit of an issue. But when we're talking about these smaller businesses that might be selling to Another government contractor that might be selling to Raytheon who's selling to the Department of Defense, just as an example. They wonder, why does it matter? That I'm really secure, because I'm making something that's completely passive. It's not as though I'm making the software that controls a missile in flight. Right? It is not doing any of those sort of things. So why should it matter? And I think that it's a good question, but here's why it matters. There were some huge hacks of the Department of Defense last year, and those hacks a good 50% of them came from their vendors. We're talking about a third party risk. That third party that vendor you're using, whether it's Google Docs and Dr. Mike, you might be using a version of Dropbox as Just a regular end user version might be using an unsecured or improperly secured as your instance or Amazon Web Services instance. You could be using any of those types of things. And guess what's going to happen if you're using those. All of those people who have your data could be used as a way into your computer's think for a minute. We spoke earlier today about these 500 plus Google Chrome extensions that were leaking your data there, the data is actually being stolen by third parties because of those. If you have software installed that's being used to manage your supply chain, and that supply chain software is tied into this third party vendor. Your network is is is exposed Now you may have tried to tighten it down, I might be as tight as could possibly be. And there's no problem here. But if you're like an average business, none of that is true. None of that is true at all. All of your data is potentially accessible by the third party. So some interesting stats that came out. And I again, I have this up on my website. I will post let me post this right now here in the Facebook Live channel. Okay. It's in there now to you can see that right at the end of my comment. They're showing that there were about 43% of businesses this last year 44% were, in fact, attacked and hacked via third party breaches. So in other words, the bad guys did not come in directly This wasn't a phishing attack attack necessarily directly against them. This wasn't a ransomware attack directly against them. It was against a third party. So it was a vendor who might have had all of their customer information they might have had to how to manufacture certain things. It could be all kinds of different types of information. And that information was then used against them. That's a very big deal. Think about billing. Think about your, your employees and their paychecks, their w 210 99. Since you send out all of these things to target so we talked earlier about these VPN services that are right now huge, they're huge attack vector. Now this number is up by the way 35% over the last two years. The number of records exposed in the breaches skyrocketed. Almost 300% last year, the cost of the breaches have gone up substantially as well. And you're going to find all of this up on my website, Craig peterson.com. But that's huge. So 44% of all firms that were surveyed had experienced a significant data breach caused by third party vendor. And remember, these are firms that know that they were breached. So let's look at an IBM study. This IBM study says it takes an average of 197 days for a company to identify that they have had a data breach almost 200 days to even identify even know that they had a breach and another 69 days to contain it. Fat is inexcusable. In excuse inexcusable, it really is. You know, so many people have fallen through victim to vendors that say, hey, we've got the solution for you Don't worry about it. This is this is going to be so easy, not a big deal. We'll take care of it for you and they don't that's the only explanation I can come up with here. For what 265 ish days, from the time a breach occurs to the time that they've contained it. 265 days, that's two thirds of a year. Now I believe me I'm this is not I'm not trying to sell you our services here. Okay. If you want to buy him great. I just want to let you guys know 250 days on average to contain it with what we do on average. It is this from this. From the time it happens to the time is discovered to the time it's contain. So from the very beginning of a breach to the time it's contained. With us, it's typically six hours. That's why I say this is in excusable, if you're a company with 200 employees with 1000 employees, and you're not using the right stuff. Whose fault is it? And I gotta tell you another number that I've seen before when when I was one of the FBI infragard programs that I ran, I had an expert on, and he was talking about breaches, and you know how many months it takes to discover and then to try and close the hole. If you take less than 30 days to stop the breach, on average, you save $1 million, a million dollars. So think about that when you're thinking about the cost of security. If you are slightly bigger company, you have a few hundred employees up into thousands of employees. And you can shave that whole massive number of 250 days, down to 30 days or less, you've saved yourselves a million bucks. So the million dollars that you might spend on security and by the way, it takes you quite a bit to spend a million dollars to even to get the kind of security I was just talking about, with the six hour to recovery stuff. A million bucks goes a long way now and that's plus, by the way, you know, all of your other costs, the loss of reputation that you get, so you're going to lose clients, you're not going to pick them up, you're not gonna be able to charge as much as you could before. People aren't going to trust you. All this is happening because of these third party breaches. So keep that in mind next time. You are auditing your business, right? You've got auditors and think about all of the people downstream from you who maybe you should be paying some attention to, because they have data that you might find to be sensitive. They might be used as a conduit to break into your systems as well as have their systems breached. Okay. So I know many companies now that are, are auditing their providers, their upstream downstream partners, for very, very good reason. So if you want to find out more, let me know just email me at Craig peterson.com. Be glad to punch in the right direction. You can find this particular order article over and dark reading and it's written by Jay v. JOHN, and you can find it as well at Craig Peterson calm Of course I post all of that stuff online. And if you have my newsletter, you get that Every Saturday morning, links to it there too. So stick around. We'll be right back. We got a lot more to talk about here. In this last hour of the show. We're going to talk about a rental car risk you might not be aware of. So stick around. Hey, welcome back. Craig Peterson here WGAN and and elsewhere. We are live on Facebook Live as well. out on YouTube. You can find me and Craig Peterson calm. And of course, listen to my podcasts on pretty much any platform out there. podcast platforms from one platform. I just been doing this for too long. I guess this is the problem. They've all found me. Oh no. So this is a great little article from our friends over at Ars Technica. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's one of those websites that I follow fairly closely because they have so many great things out there. But this one is talking about the rental cars and I want you to think about cars for a moment because well, I like cars. Hopefully you do too. But what are the problems that we're seeing today that are actually caused by this latest, newest, most wonderful technology? And there are a lot of them frankly. And some of them have to do shoes me with our phones, right? We plug our phones into the cars, the cars will automatically say, Okay, I want the contacts, people will just blindly say okay, go ahead and upload the contacts. And all of your contacts are uploaded, and now the car has them and the next driver comes in I love doing this comes into the car and scrolls through all of the phones and sees all of the contacts people have their home addresses in their status home. So you just look up home on the on the cars GPS and and just some poor fool who uploaded all of his contacts into the car, right use seen that before a music downloads, just all kinds of stuff. So I'm always careful, I never let the car upload my contacts you were probably kind of conscious about that as well. If you're not making sure that that doesn't happen right to the car doesn't have your contacts. You You might also do what I do, which is after I'm done with the car, I go into the Bluetooth settings and disconnect my phone or with Apple Car Play. I make sure my phone is disconnected. Excuse me. So those are all things I think that most people would know about and think about. Well, here's the problem that we're starting to see today. These cars are getting smarter and smarter and have more and more features on them, don't they? So there there's been some research here. Ars Technica did a little dive into it as well. And this Dan Goodin ended up writing an article about This where he found that the previous driver to his car could start and stop the engine lock and unlock the doors and track the location of the vehicle because you remember again these cars are designed by my guys right and gals obviously but by guys who are not thinking about all of the use cases for the car you know man I had such a fight of one of my my eldest sons who works with me he's he's one of the employees and works with a company that is fire jumpers certified for not fire jumper as in the fire department, although he does have a firefighting certificate including tight spaces on ships, but he's a fire jumper for security when something bad happens. Or please, please have us design the network before something bad happens. He gets some old us all of those. Well. We have all of Our clients emails run through a set of high end filters provided by Cisco. So all of the emails coming in our filters, look at it, and they are phenomenal. They have cut my email, I was 5000 emails a day. And now I'm down to about 100 hundred and 50 emails a day just by the Cisco filters. So and by the way, I have, I think, in the last year had maybe one false positive, maybe one it's just these things are so smart the way they work, right? They're not just looking for keywords or other things are really looking at behavior. Because Cisco sees so much of the internet, right? Cisco runs the internet backbone, but then they see so much of that traffic plus they see so much of the email traffic they can, they can just be phenomenal. So we have all of our customers emails running through our data center and it's properly secure. Of course, and running through these special Cisco email filters. And then we take those emails and we forward them on to our customers mail servers. Well, one of the services that is used by quite a few of our customers, because it's inexpensive, relatively speaking, is the Microsoft Office 365. Now, there's a lot of levels of old 3065. It's their cloud services, right? But that's cloud is in the cloud, right? And we're not going to get into that right now. But they have a whole bunch of services. And Microsoft had an internal grey list against our Cisco email host that was doing all of the filtering. And Microsoft, you know, they said, Well, you know, we can figure it out. It took us 24 hours to escalate it to people who knew what they were even talking about. We showed them their own tech article on this problem. them inside Microsoft with Office 365. And said, Here's your problem. You guys know about it, you have defined it, here it is. And yet, you know, they they start you with the people that say is a computer powered on type, right? Just so, so, so frustrating to me. Well, the problem here is that the Microsoft software did not consider all their software designers did not consider all of the uses usage cases. In this case, the Microsoft software people thought, Well, people using Office 365 they're just going to be real small businesses and they are going to have you know, dozen through 1000 email accounts maybe. And so the usage patterns are going to be consistent, etc, etc. That's not true in a case like us, where all of the emails coming in from all over the internet. To to us for all of our customers, including their deal D contractor customers, right? The people, the customers that have it are compliant, have PCI that have legal compliance issues, accounting compliance issues, right. So they all come to us where they are heavily heavily filtered. And then therefore it on to Microsoft. Well, that's not a usage case they thought of when they design the software. So we were fighting with them. We had thousands of messages queued up So the good news is, we didn't lose any of the email. We kept it our systems noticed right away that Microsoft was misbehaving, which they do frequently. And and then we got on the horn with Microsoft, we went the level two right away and then level three No, I'm air quoting levels two and three, because they're not real levels two and three, not by our standards. By the time you get to level three or somebody like me that or Steve, the fire jumper, somebody that really knows What's going on? Right? That's not the case of Microsoft. Anyhow, the problem in Ars Technica is found here is that these cars are designed with the idea that there is a single owner. Now there might be multiple drivers to the vehicle, but there's a single owner, right? She owns the Mustang. She drives it, but you know, the old man drives every once in a while the kids might drive it once in a while as well. Well, in this case, they looked at a Ford Explorer. And October last year, they put an article in about a guy that was able to remotely start, stop, lock, unlock and track a Ford Explorer that he had rented and returned five months earlier. And they're saying now something almost identical has happened again to the same enterprise rental car customers. customer. Four days after returning a Ford Mustang, the Ford pass app installed on the phone continues to give them control of the car. So here we have a usage case where the car is being rented, it was not part of the original design considerations. And the rental car company, in this case enterprise, and maybe it's just one unit of enterprise, I don't know. But enterprise is not properly clearing or resetting, whatever they have to do to that car after somebody has rented it. So it's a real problem. And it's something we need to be cautious of. Because it's, it's not even something we can necessarily do anything about. But personally, I would go into the menu on the console on the control system, you know, the entertainment system, and I wipe out every phone that's in there, just so that something like this can happen to me, right? But that's what I would do and that's what I advise you to do as well. Okay, stick around. When we get back. We're going to talk about a new FBI report that's talking about what happened to this $1.7 billion right here. Stick around. Craig Peterson and WGAN and live on Facebook. Hey, welcome back everybody, Craig Peterson here WGAN and and elsewhere. Hopefully you're able to join me on facebook live this week and we spend some time talking about the articles and answering questions for everybody. And of course you'll find that online right now kind of all over the place, make sure you get my weekly newsletter. It'll keep you up to date on all the latest security topics and some of the cooler new technology out there that I think is or maybe isn't ready for prime time. Going to have a cool guests next week too. I I used to do a lot of guests. I had like a dozen a show back when I had a three hour show. But next week we're gonna talk with a buddy of mine Mine, who is actually fairly well known, he's written a book about sugar. And you probably know if you've been listening to me for a while, not all that long. But a while you know that I have been very conscious about my health and doing the intermittent fasting thing and stuff. And so we'll talk to him about what he has found. You might remember I did the Atkins thing some years ago, but we'll be talking with him a little bit about that, too. I'm sure next week, so Barry Friedman will be my guest. And I will probably be next week. We've got to figure out the calendars first. No, I hate it when that happens. Sorry about that little bit of a coughing fit. Okay, so let's get into the article right now. And this has to do with email compromise. Now we all have email accounts, right? You got them. I got them, whether they're on Google Shame on you, or if they are Microsoft Office 365. Okay, depends on which level you have. Or if you host them yourself, which is what we've been doing for decades now for ourselves and our clients. I like that because they have more control. I don't have the problems like we had with Microsoft this week with Office 365 for some of our clients. But when you have email, there's a certain type of exposure that you have. We talked earlier about this whole problem with the coven 19 with the corona virus, and how they're using it right now to get you to click on links and phishing attacks. click on links in SMS. Those are called smishing. To get you to do something that ultimately you shouldn't do because they're using it to download nastiness. And it can be nastiness in the form of ransomware he'd be nastiness in the form of software that being installed on your computer to use your computer's resources, maybe as part of a denial of service attack, maybe to attack other people and other computers that are out there, right? It's all pretty darn evil. Well, the FBI put together some numbers because there's this thing called a business email compromise. That's only part of the problem. Because it isn't just business email, that can be a problem here. It's also our personal emails. So we're finding on the personal side that people are getting emails that are again from bad guys, but what they're trying to do is get you to go a little bit further. So a lot of them for instance, are based around dating sites. So people looking for companionship, they might be out on one of these websites and and they meet somebody.g more coughing meet somebody and as they've met that person, they kind of go back and forth and how are you? Oh my we have so much in common and they're trying to scam you. That is a very, very big and prevalent thing right now. Because so many people are just trying to find somebody that they can love someone they can spend some time with. And enjoy company and you know how I get that pardon my French but this is a real tough time in the world. There's so many people that are so ostracize that are blocked off from other people that are just looking for something anything right? Doesn't have to be love. As I said it can just be companionship. So the FBI has been warning about that. And then we've got these business email attacks, that what's happening here is oftentimes it's spearfishing. They're going After the owner of a company, and and frankly some of these dating things are spearfishing, too, because they know that somebody who's a little bit older might have some money that they can get out. Yeah. And they'll ask you Hey listen, I my uncle cousin has this medical bill and and we really need the money can I get $10,000 from you and people, people are sending it in the business email account account. It's a little bit different. So here's another article from our friends over dark reading this up on my website as well. But it's same back in 2013 scams often started with the spoofing of a CEO or CFO his email account, fraudsters send emails appearing to come from these execs to convince employees to send wire transfers to fake accounts. Now we know that within the last six months, this has gone to the next level. We're there we are using computers to imitate the bosses voice and they've been able to take millions anyhow the article goes on. Since then business email compromise has evolved to include the compromise a personal and vendor emails, spoofed lawyer email account and request for W two data. Of course, taxis and everybody. This is a big one w two right now the IRS is warning about that. Attackers often target the real estate sector and or make requests for expensive gift cards. In 2019. The Internet crime center saw an increase in business email compromised complaints related to the diversion of payroll money. So the attackers send a fake email to human resources or payroll department requesting an update to a specific employees direct deposit information. This is really really big and you look at these numbers. We're talking about 1.7 billion in losses. That's absolutely huge amounts of money. The in 2019, they had a half a million complaints come in costing organizations three and a half billion dollars overall. That's up almost $3 billion from 2018. absolutely huge. So we have to be very, very careful. There are some reports out there email fraud and entity deception trends that are out there about the attackers what they're doing rise in hybrid attacks, which a victim receives an email making a request, and simultaneously receives a text message from a spoof number designed to seem to seem like the same person saying they just sent an email. It is highly targeted and also highly effective. So you got to be careful of all of this. We have to be careful of all of this and for business people, we have to be particularly careful about all of this government, government agencies. Did you see what happened with in Atlanta in the last year, how they got nailed multiple times. And it was ransomware. Getting in some of it was some business email compromises. We've had cities all over the country who have fallen victim to the business email compromise, and they have wire money to vendors that just don't exist, etc, etc. We have to be very careful. So how do you avoid this? First of all, don't send money to people that you really don't know. You know, you I'm thinking about those of us that are looking for companionship, friendship, maybe for a new lover, somebody that we can spend the rest of our lives with. Don't send them money really don't no matter how bad that sob story is. And then if we're business people be doubly careful. Verify everything via the phone. So the boss tells you that they need to move some money into another account. Call the boss you have their number, don't call the number in the email. If you are getting contact in HR from an employee's saying, hey, I want you to start direct deposited into my new account, here's the account number. Call back and verify it. Right That's always the case. You know, a police officer pulls you over the side of the road. You have a good chance that it's really police officer because they're an unmarked car. They have the blue lights going. They have a police officers uniform on. You just don't know even in that case. So be extra-extra cautious out there. Man. When we come back, we've got one more article for the day again, believe that it's gone so fast. We're going to talk about the most secure messaging app out there. Hi You can get it how you can use it. So stick around. You're listening to Craig Peterson and wg AN. And of course, Facebook Live in YouTube Live. Man, we're going overboard this week. Stick around because we'll be right back. Hey, welcome back, Craig Peters, Melanie or w g. N. and online Of course, we're doing a Facebook Live even as we speak, having a little fun there as the chuckles we're all about. Hey, I appreciate you guys joining me and I know that your time is valuable, and I don't want to waste one minute of it. So I'd love to get your feedback. What do you think of this show? What are the good parts, the bad parts? What do you want to see more of? What do you want to see less of let me know just email me and eat at Craig Peters. on.com. I'd really appreciate it and make sure that you are on my email list so that you get every week the latest in technology news. With a course in emphasis, as always from me on security, and what you can and should be doing for security in your home, and in your business, you know, I really focusing on business, because that's what I've been doing for so many years. You know, most businesses aren't in the cyber security business. And so they're trying to make their widgets provide their service, etc. And they're just left hanging when it comes to the security side cyber security. And I know that's true of you guys, too, who are in smaller businesses, even larger businesses and home users. But the answers the solutions are always the same, although you don't have as much money to spend so you're not going to be as well protected. Right? Do you also, hopefully don't have as many assets at risk. I know a lot of people who are high net worth individuals who come to me in order to get things secured, but as as a whole Most of the time is business Zilla. So I kind of aim at that. And then every month is well, we have a list of the top security vulnerabilities that there are patches out for telling you, hey, you need to update this software or that software. There's various vulnerabilities that you have to take care of immediately. Another coughing fit, man, hope this isn't assigned to something coming down with something. Here's the vulnerabilities you have to t

---------------------- Written, produced, and narrated by Remedy Robinson Twitter: @slowdragremedy Email: slowdragwithremedy@gmail.com Podcast music by https://www.fesliyanstudios.com Rate this Podcast: https://ratethispodcast.com/slowdrag ----------------------   Elvis Costello Wiki Resource, I Almost Had a Weakness: http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/I_Almost_Had_A_Weakness   “I Almost Had a Weakness”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITvtRUO2qPg   Companion Blog: https://slowdragwithremedy.home.blog/2020/02/15/episode-32-i-almost-had-a-weakness/   References: “Watch Your Step” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvgIbU-I7-M   Sour Grapes: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/sour+grapes Aesop’s “The Fox and The Sour Grapes” Parable: https://fablesofaesop.com/the-fox-and-the-grapes.html     Listen to Episode 12 of “Slow Drag with Remedy,” “The Maddening Smile of La Giaconda”: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/12-the-maddening-smile-of-la-giaconda/id1478037117?i=1000453528993 for more from our appreciation of “The Juliet Letters”   So, until next time, Adieu, my little ballyhoo "I Almost Had a Weakness" Lyrics: Thank you for the flowers I threw them on the fire And I burned the photographs that you had enclosed God, they were ugly children So you're that little bastard of that brother of mine Trying to trick a poor old woman 'Til I almost had a weakness Last week Cousin Florence bit your Uncle Joe Hit him on the forehead with a knife and a fork Said that he looked like the devil Then she said... "pass the vinegar", I'm beginning to think That I'm the only one who hasn't taken to the drinking of it Though I almost had a weakness It pains me to mention These delicate concerns But while I have to tolerate you family jewels I really mustn't grumble 'Cause when I die, the cats and dogs will jump up and down And you little swines will get nothing Though I almost had a weakness  

Intro:                                     I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, by Maya Angelou. I am Michelle Oates and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer. Paul Casey:                         Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins. Intro:                                     Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's a Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews the local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey:                         Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Mark Brault. Mark is the volunteer CEO of Grace Clinic, and a fun fact about Mark is he met his wife at Farrell's ice cream parlor. I heard he manipulated the schedule to make sure they were working together. But how many years later, Mark? Mark Brault:                       Well, it's got to be 45 years later. 43 we've been married but 45, 45 and a half. Paul Casey:                         Still eat ice cream together? Mark Brault:                       Yeah. Pretty regularly. Paul Casey:                         Well, before we begin our interview, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors. Neal Taylor:                        Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek. Derek Johnson:                 Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business. Josh Bam:                            That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington state liquor and cannabis board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com Paul Casey:                         Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Mark. I was privileged to meet you probably around eight years ago maybe now. I was on staff at Central Church and we had a global impact celebration every year and we brought in many from many community organizations. Grace Clinic was one of those and I think you were their representative then and you still are now. Mark Brault:                       You can't get rid of me. Paul Casey:                         So tell us a little bit about your past positions, bring us forward to where you are now so our Tri-Cities influencers can get to know you. Mark Brault:                       Well, a long way from where I got started, by training I'm a CPA. Paul Casey:                         I didn't know that. Mark Brault:                       I practiced public accounting, yeah I was a partner in a CPA firm many, many years ago. I spent about 13 years in a medical equipment business. Most recently up till about three and a half years ago I ran a couple of heavy truck dealerships. I've been involved in some startup companies, it's a pretty wide range of things. Paul Casey:                         Wow. It is a wide range. And you've probably met a lot of influencers along the way. So who stands out in your mind as either bosses, supervisors, colleagues that have made an impact on you? Maybe they've been a mentor or an advisor in your life? Mark Brault:                       There are lots of people and many of them who maybe I didn't work with directly or for, I remember, I mean this is a long time ago a local banker here who really had a lot of influence in my life. I mean that was back in the days when I was in public accounting but probably as many almost casual relationships or business relationships that influenced me as people that I had significant working relationships with. Certainly in my early days of public accounting there was a partner in our firm that had a lot of influence in the development of my public accounting career. But you can learn something from virtually anybody. Paul Casey:                         Here, here. Mark Brault:                       That's just the case and if you're looking for what you can learn, you can learn something from anybody. Paul Casey:                         Would you agree that everybody probably needs a mentor, someone that's further down the road than them and a mentee, someone that they can pass the baton to? Mark Brault:                       Absolutely. Absolutely. We need to learn from other people's experience. There's an old saying it's impossible to know what you don't know. And so learning from people who have more experience, who've been down that path before is enormously valuable. And sharing your knowledge with other people is critical as well. If you stay in your cocoon, it might work for butterflies but it probably doesn't work outside of that. Paul Casey:                         I could picture a little image of a cocoon as the anti-influencer. We can put that on the website. So when you got into this position at Grace Clinic, what was your original vision? How has that morphed along the years that you've been on this leadership journey there? Mark Brault:                       My participation in the clinic has changed a fair amount. I joined the board in early 2006. I got involved there originally because of my wife. My wife is a nurse practitioner who specialized in diabetes. She had been volunteering in the clinic. I tell the story this way, it didn't happen exactly this way, but she was volunteering in the clinic one day, and was having a conversation with one of the founders who said they were looking for a CPA to the board. And she said, here, take mine. She didn't really say here, take mine but it makes a better story. But she did, she said, my husband might be interested and I ended up having some conversations and joined the board. And a few years later we didn't really have an executive director. And so a few years later, there were four of us who played that role collectively. And that worked for a period of time, but it came to a place where we needed somebody. And that became me on a volunteer basis. And so I started strictly as a board member and grew from there. But the thing that was always the case for me and what got me involved initially is that people in my family have had health needs and have always been able to take care of it. Had good insurance, been able to afford or part of the cost. Our youngest son had type two diabetes since before he was two years old. I've had a couple of joints replaced. I've had arthritis for a long time and having been in a position where I was leading or involved in the senior leadership of other company I had a lot of connection around purchasing health insurance for employees and understand what's happening there and then having my wife with a medical practice have a number of points of perspective. Mark Brault:                       And recognize that there are a whole lot of people that don't have the access that I had. And this is a way to give back and help meet those needs that are real significant. And there's probably a little bit that I've been around healthcare for a long time. As I said I spent some time in the medical equipment business when I was practicing public accounting, I had a substantial number of physicians as clients so I've been around elements of it for a long time. Paul Casey:                         Grace Clinic has a super mission, just a super mission and that's great that you've been able to be on that board for 13 years, probably hitting you over the face right now, thinking 13 years. That's a long time. And over time then getting a executive director that replaced you in that volunteer role by now a paid person there. Right? Mark Brault:                       Well we have a clinic director. Paul Casey:                         Clinic director? Mark Brault:                       My title is CEO, but effectively executive director. Paul Casey:                         Got you. Mark Brault:                       And yeah, the clinic director is a paid position and Avonte holds that position, is an outstanding resource for us and does a tremendous job. And to a very great extent that in the way things operate, her role is chief operating officer and she's focused on the... Paul Casey:                         Day to day. Mark Brault:                       ...day to day operations and I'm focused in great measure externally. Paul Casey:                         Okay. Mark Brault:                       But yeah my role probably isn't going to go away any time soon. Paul Casey:                         Supreme Court justice. Yes. Well, what are you most passionate about? I mean obviously you keep stoking your fire so that you stay in this, you have no immediate plans of resigning from your volunteer position. So what are you most passionate about at Grace Clinic now? Mark Brault:                       Two things. Well more than two things but the first is we do a really good job of taking care of people and we do that in a fashion that they really value. We have one of our patients who sometime back about a year ago spoke in one of our volunteer events. We have a video of her as well, who says very clearly that coming here was hard. And that's because she and her husband had always been self sufficient. Then he became disabled and they lost her insurance and said coming was hard, but the clinic made it really easy. Mark Brault:                       They treated us like human beings. They didn't make us feel like we were asking for handouts. And so, we do a really good job and we do it in a fashion that is consistent with what I expect when I go to my doctor's office. And so that's one piece. But the other is that in the last couple of years we've been able to expand what we do really significantly. If you look at our medical visits in the first six months of 2019 compared to the first six months of 2017 we're up more than 90%. Paul Casey:                         Wow. Mark Brault:                       I mean, it's huge. And part of that, a big part of our ability to do that is because beginning in July of 2017 we launched a relationship with the residency program at Trios and Kadlec. And so now all of the third year residents out of those programs rotate through the clinic. Paul Casey:                         Wow that's cool. Mark Brault:                       They gave us a boost in capacity and it's also important from the standpoint of working with a broader community game. Having those two programs from hospitals that historically haven't done a whole lot of things together but are really actively doing this together with us. The more of those things, we can do the better off the community is. Paul Casey:                         Here, here. So I heard the power of story keeps you going to see those lives that are being changed and the power of stats, seeing the increased numbers of the capacity expanding and then saying wow, look how many we'll be able to reach. Mark Brault:                       There's a part of me that will always be a CPA. Paul Casey:                         Love it. So in your all your leadership capacities over the years you have to build teams, you try to create a culture. What are you looking for when everything from hiring the clinic director years ago, Avonte, to the physicians that come in, they volunteer their time, other volunteers. How do you assess that everyone's on the right seat on the bus? Mark Brault:                       That can be tough. I mean it really can. And for us, certainly at the beginning is the question of why is somebody interested? Do they get the mission or are they interested in participating in that? And in our case, there are multiple facets to that. We're a faith based organization, not all of our volunteers come from a faith tradition. Okay? And so there's some balance in there but it's why does somebody want to be involved? Is it consistent with what we're trying to do? Is probably the key thing is, understanding what we're about and wanting to come alongside because this organization and we have more than 300 active volunteers. Okay? It's completely a community endeavor, a whole lot of people that come together to make it happen. Mark Brault:                       So first and foremost it's do they understand the mission and want to participate in that? And then the second is a question of people who have different skillsets. Now, in our case there's some very technical elements, you have a physician or a nurse well, they're principally going to function kind of in that arena. But we have a lot of volunteers who don't have some medical credential and so finding the right fit relative to their skillset. And there's another thing, one of the things that's not widely known about Peter Drucker is that he actually has a book on managing nonprofit organizations. Mark Brault:                       One of the things that he talks about that book, which is a really important principle, is that volunteers really need to be considered as unpaid staff. Paul Casey:                         I agree. Mark Brault:                       That the role is no less important because they aren't getting paid. Then with paid staff that those jobs are every bit as important and consequently we have paid and unpaid staff. I'm part of the unpaid staff. But there are a number of those things that come into play. Paul Casey:                         See yourself if you're volunteering right now, Tri-Cities influencers, see yourself as unpaid staff too. And maybe that even raises the water level of, Oh, I've got to stay connected on my board or I've got to show up and I've got to follow through because just like a paid person would, they're counting on you to get through that. And so alignment sounds really huge when you're trying to create a culture of both to the mission and also to the values. Let's stay on that personnel topic. So how do you keep those volunteers or those paid or unpaid staff inspired and affirmed? Mark Brault:                       In our organization, a big part of the inspired comes from doing the work. It comes from seeing the impact that we're having. It comes from seeing volunteers who have their eyes opened. We've had countless cases where a relatively new volunteer will comment, I had no idea. I had no idea about the magnitude of this need because I didn't encounter the need directly in the rest of my life. I've often said that for many of us, we encounter one of our patients because they happened to be the clerk in a store where we're buying something, okay? And we don't know their story, so a lot of that inspiration comes from seeing the impact in the patients and seeing the growth in the unpaid staff that is incredibly rewarding. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. I think it's important for all leaders, especially if you're in an organization with layers to connect your team through the constituents that you're actually helping. Even if you're making pizza or a widget, who are the people that you're actually benefiting from all the work that you're doing and that reconnects you to that mission over and over again. We also had a conference recently where they talked about your people, whether they're paid or unpaid staff need air and we were like, "yeah, of course we do to live." But AIR stands for affirmation, inspiration and recognition and I really like that AIR: affirmation, inspiration and recognition to keep going. Well, no one wants to get stale in leadership. You've been in the game awhile. How do you stay relevant? How do you stay on the cutting edge in your leadership position? Mark Brault:                       For me and in this particular arena at Grace Clinic, the principle thing that I do is I'm looking for what other people are doing. There's a statewide organization of free clinics and so we share a lot of information back and forth. We have a relatively new organization in the Tri-Cities, the Columbia Basin Nonprofit Association that I was one of about seven or eight people that put that together where we want to share information and knowledge. And the reality is it doesn't matter how well you're doing something, there are things that you can learn to do it better. Paul Casey:                         Absolutely. Mark Brault:                       And so for me it's always being on the lookout for those things and I'll give you a crystal clear illustration of this. A year and a half ago, I had been invited to an event, it was like middle of November and I agreed to go. I'm driving there in the morning and the title of this event was increasing community connections. And I'm driving there and I'm asking myself the question, why am I going to this thing this morning? It's all morning and I've got other things to do. And I went. Turned out it was a really lousy title. It really didn't identify what was going to happen there at all. And a pair of presenters who were making a presentation together talked about something that they had done in their organization, in another medical operation that directly got involved in their medical clinic, mental health professionals. Mark Brault:                       Now we have a substantial mental health program, but what these guys were doing is they had a mental health professional who was assigned to the medical clinic. And when one of their clinicians would encounter a need that the patient they were seeing had, they would often say, you know, excuse me man, there's another member of our team that I think could be helpful and they would bring that individual in. They don't identify him as a mental health professional. They just identify him as another member of the team and that person would take over the way that it was structured they just schedule a couple of followups in the medical clinic. Mark Brault:                       so part of what's happening here is you get this warm hand-off, but also you're avoiding the stigma. The reaction, I don't need to see a counselor. It was enormously effective. And so we decided we were going to try that and it's been enormously effective for us. If I hadn't gone to that thing, when might I have learned about that. And so you have to always be on the lookout for things that can advance what you're doing, something you can learn from other people. And that's particularly in an environment like healthcare where things are changing all the time. That's why it's a survival skill. Paul Casey:                         That's right. That's right. Again, the cocoon, the anti influencer principle. The associations are a big deal. So influencers, and you're listening to this podcast, your profession probably has an association in the nuclear society, the real estate association, the accountant's association. All of them here in the Tri-Cities have a branch, well maybe not all of them, but many of them do. Even this free clinic association you're referring to Mark, I got to speak at that a few years ago on strategic planning, big hearted people, and probably just being in the room with them was encouraging to all of them. So there's so many good things that can come out of being a part of your association. And I think innovation can spring from that. Well, before we head into our next question about what makes a good day for Mark, let us shout out to our sponsors. Paul Casey:                         Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you'd get about life insurance? Jason Hogue:                     Hey Paul. Yeah. One of the biggest push backs I get on life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, why do I even need this? I don't have kids. I don't have any dependents or a spouse. Why do I need this? Ultimately whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces. There's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs. And I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there is funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility. Paul Casey:                         Awesome, Jason. So tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you? Jason Hogue:                     You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco or give us a call at (509) 547-0540. Paul Casey:                         So Mark, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you put your head on the pillow at night and look back and go, today was a really good day. What kind of things are going on that day to make it a good day? Mark Brault:                       It's any one of a number of things. I mean certainly often it's we've been able to accomplish something we're working on. We've had some demonstration of why we do this. But for me also it could be something associated with my family. I mean, we're incredibly fortunate that all of our kids live here, which means all of our grandkids live here and for years we've done something where everybody comes to our place for dinner on Monday night. Paul Casey:                         Oh really? That's great. Mark Brault:                       That includes my parents and my wife's folks and if everybody's there we have, I think it's 30 Paul Casey:                         Whoa, a family reunion every Monday night? Mark Brault:                       It's a lot but we have so many friends whose grandkids live 2000 miles way and so often it can be related to just the interaction with our kids or grandkids, especially grandkids. We've got five who actually live six houses away from us and it doesn't get much better than that. Paul Casey:                         Well, you have a family of influencers. The Brault family here in town are movers and shakers for sure. But I love how you said it's living that way that makes it a good day. You look back in your day and did we live it out our way? And if you can say yes to that, it is a good day. Well, let's peel back one layer of the onion of your life here, Mark, what's your best habit and what's your worst habit? Mark Brault:                       Well, I don't know what my best habit is. My worst habit is procrastination. I'm as guilty of that as anybody. Paul Casey:                         We need a procrastination anonymous club here. Mark Brault:                       There was a time when I wore a little button that said Procrastinate Later. But that's undoubtedly my worst habit. I'm not sure what my best habit is. Paul Casey:                         Do you have more of like a routine that you're like, I've got to do this every day? Mark Brault:                       I am virtually always up early. And so, I have some time in the morning when I'm reading, I'm catching up on the news. I mean, it's a whole host of things and that really works for me. I've always been a morning person and it doesn't work for my wife. Paul Casey:                         Sure. Sure. Mark Brault:                       But I'll have that time to organize my day and that works pretty well. Paul Casey:                         Morning routine is huge. So much better than running to work or your first thing with your hair on fire. But to have that time to reflect, meditate. Some people pray, some people read, but to expand that morning a little bit more than just getting ready. Mark Brault:                       Right. Paul Casey:                         Well other than procrastinate later, do you have a favorite quote that or a mantra that you live by or like to repeat? Mark Brault:                       That for me moves around. It'll be something that works for a period of time and then doesn't and more recently, the one which I mentioned before we get started is something I heard recently in a sermon, which is "God will not push you deeper into your comfort zone." Paul Casey:                         I wrote that one down before we started because I love it. What does that mean to you? Mark Brault:                       Well, it means that there are a lot of things that are hard. I mean some things are just hard work. And require you to push to stretch. It doesn't happen because you kick back and take it easy. And so, if you're going to accomplish things that you want to accomplish, you have to get out there and get after it. And I think what really resonated there with me in that statement is it is the reality that you have to get out of your comfort zone. Mark Brault:                       And I mean, there are any number of things in my role in the clinic that take me out of my comfort zone. I spend a fair amount of time asking people for money. It's not the most comfortable thing I do. But I had a recognition and a number of years ago, and this was somebody I was listening to who made this comment, which is in the worst case, if you ask, the answer is going to be no. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. Paul Casey:                         Still, no. Mark Brault:                       Okay. So, if you don't give somebody the opportunity to say yes, the answer is no. Right? And so, you've got to be willing to get outside of your comfort zone if you're going to accomplish anything. And if you'll continue to do that, you can grow and develop. And if you don't, you're in that cocoon. Paul Casey:                         That's right. Growth is the enemy of comfort or comfort is the enemy of growth. I like that quote too. That's the same one I just turned to. I don't know if you've seen this guy. I think his name is JiaJiang. It's J-I-A and then J-I-A-N-G, the rejection therapy guy. So he went out to try to beat rejection. This feeling of hating rejection to get a hundred no's. So he came up with a hundred unique things like, can I play soccer in your backyard just knocking on a door, or can I get a burger refill? Just that we'd hear no, he'd be like, check, got another one. He was trying to get a hundred no's. You have to look it up on YouTube. But it is very funny. Some people actually said yes so for some, he was hoping for a no to walk away and they made it happen for him. But he overcame the no rejection, his fear of that because of it. So all that happened outside of his comfort zone. How about a book, Mark, that every leader should read in your opinion? Mark Brault:                       In the non-profit space, Peter Drucker's book is really excellent. He's generally not thought of in the non-profit arena. That's not where the bulk of his work was, but it's really well done and I think worth reading. I think the other thing, I recently shared a book in a clinic that was recommended to me that I think an awful lot of people ought to read. It's called Nickel and Dimed. And it's written by a woman who is a writer who decided that she was going to try and figure out what it's like to live on minimum wage. And so she went to three different communities each for a month and had to find a job and a place to live. Mark Brault:                       And she's very clear that her experience is not reflective of people who are at that place all the time. In one of the communities she went to, she worked for a maid service and she commented that she was in a better place at the end of the day than most of the women that she worked for or worked with. But she said that's because I haven't been doing this for 20 years. That I'm in good health. I went to the gym, I'm starting from a place of not having abused my body with this physical work for 20 years. But understanding those things is important. Paul Casey:                         Builds your empathy, builds your compassion. Yeah, for sure. Mark Brault:                       Builds your knowledge. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. Mark Brault:                       Okay. We often don't understand some of those challenges. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. Good old Peter Drucker, the father of modern management, I think he's called. He put out some really good stuff. How about an influencer in town that all Tri-Citians should meet? I know it's hard to narrow it down to one, but you got someone that everybody should meet? Mark Brault:                       And I'm going to stay in the non-profit arena. The group of people who were instrumental along with me in starting the Columbia Basin Non-profit Association are folks who are worth meeting. Brian Ace who leads the Boys and Girls Club, Grant Bain leads Senior Life Resources. Steve Holland, the YMCA. I mean there are a whole group of people who are really active in non-profit leadership that they're having a big impact in the community and are worth knowing. Paul Casey:                         Good people for sure. Well finally, Mark, what advice would you give to a new leader or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Mark Brault:                       I think that influence comes out of getting things done and doing it in a fashion that is open, that's not arrogant. And so, I think the way that people gain influence is by doing the work and both in their career, in their volunteer work, those are the things that they're necessary. And I've been fortunate, I've been involved in a lot of organizations over a long time and those things are both rewarding, but they also create relationships and connections that have value and can have a lasting impact. Paul Casey:                         Well, Tri-City influencers. You heard it here. Influence comes from getting things done. Thanks Mark. How can our listeners best connect with you? Mark Brault:                       I'm pretty easy to find at the clinic. I respond pretty faithfully to email at Markb@gracecliniconline.org. I get a lot of email and I'm usually not too far behind on it. Paul Casey:                         Way to go. Well thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend if you love quotes, found a great place to find them. It's called addicted2success.com. They have grouped quotes by famous leaders, both contemporary leaders and those that are no longer with us or by theme. So again, addicted2success.com and you'll find some other great resources there as well. Paul Casey:                         And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer : Gravis Law and Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Paul Casey:                         Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Kahlil Gibran said, "zeal is a volcano, the peak of which the grass of indecisiveness does not grow." Keep growing forward. Intro:                                     If you enjoyed this podcast or piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his Growing Forward Services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his Target Practice inspirational email newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books the most recent one being, Leading the Team You've Always Wanted. Paul Casey: This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse coworking space.  

Welcome back I'm excited I have my friend Karen Farfan here. We're going to spend a day filming episode after episode of building her YouTube channel. But we're starting with a video kind of out of order. We're talking about outsourcing just for a minute because I know a lot of viewers on the channel love to know why I hire people in the Philippines. And so we're going to start there. There's a specific reason why just the Philippines and we'll dive into that in this episode. -Nate, so can you tell me why the Philippines? Why not South America, why not India... -There's great people all over the planet. I love... You know, everywhere I've gone I found people that I love but there's so many great advantages to the Philippines. They're a developing nation and you know, the furthest extent of the word. Meaning I can hire somebody there for 450 bucks a month that is a very highly educated and skilled they've got a computer, they've got internet. The communication is fantastic, the way that they speak English. There's just so many event. I can trust them. They're people that I can trust that there... On one hand, like I look for entrepreneurial qualities yet I can train them everything and share all my secrets and I'm not going to be my competitor. -In fact, I'll show you this picture that I took. Because I I've been hiring people in the Philippines for nine and a half years. Never met them in person. But I just went over last November. And this is the night that we all met. This was a kind of a fancy buffet. Delicious, actually. So, I ate whole food plant-based. And like, I only went to this section and then after I was full, I realized that I had only been to a third of the restaurant. Anyway, meeting my team for the first time was a real... Is really touching. You know, my project manager came and met me. That's his sister. They're the only 2 that had known each other beforehand. Well at least these 2 are brothers, actually. So, there's 2 that have known each other. But otherwise, they work from their homes. So, it's kind of nervous like, "Are we going to get along? Is it going to just be awkward sitting there all together?" But you know, all the guys that hear, all the women sit here and we're chit-chatting and talking about clients and things that we'd worked with and having laughs. And I would... I just had this kind of a wave of emotion hit me of gratitude and of them gratitude grateful to me for providing them jobs. And it's a really neat experience. -Nice. And how do you build that trust with your team? Because you met them for the first time --after how many years? -Yeah, it takes time but really I don't micromanage them as far as hours. I tell them, you know, put in 8 hours a day you get to control your schedule. But I give them a very specific system to follow. And you know, if it's editing then I'll see a certain number of edited videos come out each day. And as long as there's consistency in their work and they're open with communication with me, just more and more trust gets built. And I get to see like... What I really love is when my team comes to me with ideas of, "You know what? If we, there's kind of been a bottleneck here." And if so if they kind of discover a problem and they can provide a solution, I just realized, "Man, you guys are loyal and I've seen lots of loyalty like that." And I've also seen where one of my project managers I now call my system creator because he creates lots of systems for me in our company. He noticed 2 of our team members who were doing great work. But he thought, "You know, I think this one we do better as the thumbnail designer. And I think this I'm going to do better editor. But if we have them switch roles..." I'm like, "Let's give it a try." And they're both happy you're doing... -What they're good at. -Yeah. So, it's developed over time to where we've got that type of dynamic. Really when... Just the culture in the Philippines they really want to do a good job. They really want that their boss to be pleased with them. And if they make a mistake, they kind of felt quiet and they'll just not say anything. And so, what I've learned to do is... We'll just use editing of video as an example. So if that's the project they're working on, I give them a project, give them all the footage and they edit it I tell them this is how I want you to edit it. Create it. You know, like this other video here. They'll send it back to me and I'll review it. I'm not expecting it to be perfect. But I'll see what they've done maybe they're 80% of the way there. And I'll go through my point, "Okay, yep. You did this right, you did this right, this is really good. I like what you did here. Here's some other things that you can do. If you just shorten, this tighten this up a little." You know, so I'll give them feedback and give them another chance to go through and improve it. And they'll come back. Maybe now it's 90% way there. So, as long as I'm patient and I can give them feedback, eventually, I'll get up to that 100%. And then the next time I give them a similar video editing project, they'll get a lot closer that time. And eventually get to the point where I just trust them. I don't have to review it anymore on my own because they've done it so much. They've learned, they've adapted. They've listened to what I said. So, it's a process but to now have a team. I've got 14 full time members in the Philippines. That all just send everything their way and I don't have to oversee it anymore. It's... -S,o you don't have the language barrier, you have loyalty. How much do you pay for this? -On average, it's about 450 per month per team member. So, some of my team members that have been longer they've gotten pay raises and things but... -You start... It starts at 450. -Mm-hmm. That's pretty good. They're helping you and that you're helping changing their lives. Is there a specific requirements that you asked for your team members? College degree? -No. What I do is I'll look at their experience. I actually don't like a resume. So, if they send me their resume, I'm never going to look at it. But what I have them do is send in a video application. So, I'll send them a video of myself. So, I'll just pull out my phone. I'll fill in the selfie video talking to them for about 5 minutes and say, "This is what I'm looking for. And this..." You know, introducing them to me and my company. And tell them what I'm looking for and then I say I want you to send a video back to me. So, if you just pull out your phone, talk to your camera it doesn't have to be good video production quality. Let me know what your experience is and why you want to work for my company. And that's been extremely helpful in really just trying to build a connection with somebody on the other side of the planet. Because I don't even talk to them on the phone. We talked about I don't like phone calls. They don't like phone calls either. So, we'll email, we'll use a Voxer but video communication like that, it's actually very helpful. -Yeah. -And so that's how I have them apply and then I'll give them a trial assignment. And I'll say, "Okay, I'm going to hire you. This first week is just a trial period. Just to make sure that we work well together and I'll pay you. If it doesn't work out, you'll still get paid for this week. But otherwise, I hope to have you work with for me for many, many years." And I actually had that experience where I hired a writer who just didn't have the ability that I thought she did. She actually was with me for a few weeks. I paid her for. I said... I apologize I'm just going to need to find somebody else that can do these tasks. And she was gracious and said, "Yeah, I understand. You know, all the best." And so and then I heard a different writer who's on my team now. So... -That's great. And I love your way of hiring people because anyone can make up a resume, right? You can, right? But with the video, you kind of... You can tell the essence of a person to. Kind of see if if it's a match or not. -So, a question I have for you is if, if you could give yourself an extra 8 hours in the day, what what tasks would you do more than what you're already doing? -What tasks would I be doing? I'm a bit more like a lifetime learner. I'd love to learn. So, I'll keep learning, I'll keep family, I love culture. I love connecting with people. So I'll be doing a lot harder than that. -So, I wonder how you could use outsourcing then because you can hire somebody 450 bucks a month. -Yeah, if I can hire anyone that can do what I eventually will be doing will be the editing part. I love writing and I love creating the content and then I don't want to do... It's like I want to start it and then not touch it again or not even see. -Talking about editing is a good fit for you then. -Have you do much editing yourself? Do you use Final Cut Pro or Adobe Premiere? -I don't know how to do that. -So, my advice will be to learn it. Kind of develop your style of editing. And then when you hire an editor in the Philippines, they'll pick it up and that way you can just best oversee and know you can kind of have creative control over that. But yet... -What I've done in the past that I use references. So, people that I like or inspire me and I use that and kind of like send it to you at this point like my best friend link will edit whatever I have. But that's a good point. So, you're in the first that will be your first advisor there first. And then create my style. -And the great thing is I mean, 450 a month, in the month, that's a lot of videos that they could create. Even if you're filming a vlog and it takes a full week of editing. That's going to be an amazing episode, right? You're only paying 100 bucks or so for that episode. So, even if it doesn't turn out right but chances are it'll turn out pretty good. Or they'll they'll be a place to grow from. So it's a real, real affordable safe way to hire somebody else to do your editing. -Perfect. So where do we... Where do we find... I'm not sure. I forgot if you mentioned that... -Virtual assistanttool.com. Friend of mine, John Jonas created this website. And now, there's... I believe there's a couple hundred thousand Filipinos that have submitted and created their profiles there that are hoping to work for Americans. And so you can go through and just really narrow it down. I'll put the I'll put the link down below for that virtual assistant tool. Because you can just go in search and find the exact skillsets you're looking for. And then you just contact them directly. So, I don't work through an agency. Most times when you hire you know somebody in another country, you go through an agency who then marks up the price. So, instead of paying will distract instead of paying 500 bucks a month, I would pay 1,500. 1,000 of that would go to the agency and they only pay the 500 to the person. So this way it's you get a hire somebody directly. -Right. Skip the middleman. So, who was the first person that you hire? And as a YouTuber what are the... You know, what 3 people or 2 people to somebody hire... -Yeah, well my first person is a funny story. So, I'll share that. Let me answer your other question first because then we'll end on a funny, funny failure. And editors is a good place to start. Also somebody that can manage YouTube that's got design ability with the thumbnail, that can do your description and kind of schedule things out. Those are the 2 people that I would if I were kind of building my team from scratch. Definitely start with an editor and then as you're... As they're editing and you're learning the ropes of YouTube and kind of managing that, then turn that over to a kind of calmer YouTube project manager or something like that. That's what I would do. -Perfect. -Okay, funny story. I was still an employee. So, this is going back over a decade. So, this is a... I was still employee. This one back 9 and a half years. I was doing telemarketing but I also for the same company had an independent contractor position writing articles. And the company that they would... They would do article marketing. And they would pay me 10 or 12 bucks per article that I would write. So, they'd give me a topic and I'd write the article and they'd pay me 10 or 12 bucks. So, I learned about hiring people in the Philippines. So, I hired a writer that I would give the topic to. She would write the article, I proofread it. Correct a couple things and sent it in. I get paid the 10 or 12 bucks and I'd pay her 2 bucks. And eventually got a system going where she was writing all the articles and I was making a pretty good spread. Being able to write a lot more but actually not doing the writing myself. So, the reason I say that this is a funny failure is I stopped doing quality control. And I just wasn't careful. And she started taking shortcuts. Instead of writing when she did her research on the different topics, she just take a paragraph here, a sentence here. And just pieced it together. And there was less grammatical errors because she was using other people's content. And so, when I went through and kind of did a copyright check or whatnot, I just found that she was... It was basically plagiarized content in these articles. And I and the previous fifty. I counted it was a nice round number. If the previous 50 articles had been that way that I had already been paid for. And so I was really nervous. I went in the next day went to the CEO of the company. And because I didn't want to have them catch me. I went to them and said, "Hey, this is what I've been doing. I hired some in the Philippines that they've actually been writing the articles for me and this is what happened." And the guy just laughed. He thought it was so funny. But he says, "I'm not the decision-maker on this. You got to go talk to your supervisor over the articles." And he was a young kid who was kind of a punk. And he was not happy with me. So, he said... He gave me permission to rewrite the 50 that I already been paid for. But I was not allowed to write any more articles after that. And you know, I don't know... I don't think the person that I hired was you know doing it maliciously. But I fired her. I could have been probably more patient and like talked to her like... Did you know... Like, anyway. So that was my first person I hired. And it was... Definitely... Well, I would say that there's a right way you could do that. In fact, I would encourage... I just learned that, "Wow, outsourcing." There's a lot of possibilities. And within a few months of that, I quit my job, I had my company and got up to a team of 10 employees on my web design company. And was very very successful. So, yeah. Highly recommend hiring people in the Philippines, I think. So, my hope is that this video is helpful for you and understanding what a great opportunity is to hire people in the Philippines. That I'm curious there's probably a lot of questions that you have about that. Like what's holding you back from taking that step in hiring an assistant in the Philippines. So go ahead and comment below and I'll make another episode and answer your question.

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE. Eve Picker: Hey, everyone, this is Eve Picker, and if you listen to this podcast series, you're going to learn how to make some change. Eve Picker: Hi there. Thanks so much for joining me today for the latest episode of Impact Real Estate Investing. My guest today is Majora Carter, and, wow, you won't want to miss this. It's hard to know where to begin describing Majora, who is, quite simply put, a powerhouse. Described as an urban revitalization strategist, her career has spanned environment, economy, social mobility, and real estate development, and her work has won major awards in each sector, including a MacArthur Genius Grant, a Peabody Award, the Rudy Bruner Award – Silver Medal, and nine honorary doctorates amongst many, many more. Eve Picker: Majora is quoted on the walls of the Smithsonian Museum of African-American History and Culture as saying, "Nobody should have to move out of their neighborhood to live in a better one." There is no way around it; if you are really interested in impact investing, this podcast is a must-listen. Be sure to go to EvePicker.com to find out more about Majora on the show notes page for this episode and be sure to sign up for my newsletter so you can access information about impact real estate investing and get the latest news about the exciting projects on my crowdfunding platform, Small Change.   Eve Picker: Good morning, Majora. I'm so delighted that you're on the show with me.   Majora Carter: Good morning. Thanks for having me.   Eve Picker: I was reading a little background on you, and the thing that stood out to me is this quote, "Nobody should have to move out of their neighborhood to live in a better one." These are your words, and they can be found on the walls of the Smithsonian Museum of African-American History and Culture. I just wonder how these words play into your work?   Majora Carter: Oh, those words are- were actually not my words, but they've certainly been attributed to me. They were the words of a woman who worked with me - Marta Rodriguez - as a organizer, when I ran Sustainable South Bronx, and it really embodied exactly what we were trying to do at the time, when I was running a small environmental and economic development organization - which is this is our community. How are we not creating the kind of community of our dreams here? It really continues on, as we're thinking about real estate development, and how do you use real estate development to truly transform your community into something that you can age into, and stay there, because you feel as though everything that you need and want is actually part of it?   Eve Picker: Yeah. So, you're working- are you still working mostly in the South Bronx?   Majora Carter: No, I work nationally. I certainly do have some projects that I'd love to get off the ground, here in the South Bronx, and some that we're working on, but we actually work nationally, as well. We've got a really amazing real estate development project, a mixed-income housing, mixed-use development, going on out in Mapleton-Fall Creek, Indianapolis, which I'm absolutely delighted about. There'll be about 50 units of home ownership; another 150 units of mixed-income housing, and about 50,000 square feet specifically for light manufacturing, commercial, and cultural space. We're delighted to be the developer on it.   Eve Picker: Wow. You weren't a developer when you started out, right?   Majora Carter: Oh, no! Although, interestingly enough, I've been developing a lot longer than I actually gave myself credit for. I was a card-carrying member of the non-profit industrial complex, and moved out of my neighborhood, or left my neighborhood for college, and didn't really want to come back, because it's really like America's low-status community - one of America's low-status communities.   Majora Carter: I want to just articulate what I mean by 'low-status.' We don't generally use 'disadvantaged,' or 'low-income' to describe the communities that we want to work in most; but low-status are the kind of communities where there are more liquor stores, and corner stores than there are opportunities for good, affordable, different, diverse options for food. You'll find, instead of banks, or credit unions, you'll find payday-loan places, and check-cashing stores. You'll find the kind of places where there's an enormous amount of very highly subsidized affordable housing, and very little economic range between.   Majora Carter: Essentially, in those areas, inequality is assumed, both inside, and outside the community. These are the places where, if you're a bright, talented kid, you are taught to measure your success by how far you get away from those communities. We don't have a way to think about retaining talent in those neighborhoods.   Majora Carter: When I was growing up in the South Bronx, I was one of those bright kids who was definitely told, "You're going to grow up and be somebody," which meant you get out of the neighborhood. I embraced it hook, line, and sinker. Only when I came back to the neighborhood and realized that the way our communities were being used via real estate - in particular, for us, it was environmental burdens that just kept getting heaped upon us - I also started realizing that we could use real estate as a way to transform our communities to benefit us.   Majora Carter: I first started in park development, and riverfront restoration, green jobs, training, and placement, and literally just moved into real estate development, when I realized that ... It seemed to me like a very natural trajectory to go at scale, in terms of creating the kind of community that you really felt you didn't have to move out of, in order to live in a better one.   Majora Carter: My first development project was literally squatting a building across the street from the house that my parents lived in, and I was born and raised in. It was a crazy story because it kind of technically had been in my family for decades at that point. The woman who owned it died 20 years before I decided to move in, and no one in her family wanted the house.   Eve Picker: Wow.   Majora Carter: Yeah, so it was like I'd move back in, and I'm like, "I want to set some roots down." What did I do? I moved in there, took over all the bills, the taxes, and everything. That's when predatory speculators obtained a fraudulent deed for my house, just as I was in the process of trying to purchase it and finding - getting title. It was a crazy, crazy story.   Majora Carter: There I was, acting as an owner/landlord for years, at that point, and it was a wonderful, just crazy opportunity to realize that, no, I am actually developing this space. and preserving affordable housing in my own community, and generating wealth for myself, because it's like, look, we're losing that. I wasn't thinking about the wealth gap or anything like that, I just needed a place to live. I wanted the people who were living in my building to continue to have a place to live. But I was a developer back then, and I'm a developer now.   Eve Picker: Right. That's really interesting to me, because I've been lots of places lately where 'developer' is just a bad word.   Majora Carter: It still is. Oh, my gosh, yeah-   Eve Picker: Yeah, I know. It's getting worse, I think. Not just still ... The question is, I mean, we know that just like there's good doctors and there's bad doctors-   Majora Carter: Exactly.   Eve Picker: -there's good developers and there's bad developers. But the narrative is really all developers are bad.   Majora Carter: Right [cross talk] and there's no space in it for those of us who are trying to use development for what it actually could be, which is a truly transformative way to support communities that we love. We really think about how do you use it as a tool, specifically, to support the visions and the values that we have, which is that [inaudible] and no one should have to move out of their neighborhood to live in a better one. You should have opportunities to live, work, and play, in wonderful ways, in ways that match your income, but there's all sorts of opportunities for you to engage in a beautiful community that actually does not require money, but builds community, and through [cross talk]   Majora Carter: Why is it that, in low-status areas - whether it's an inner-city community, like the South Bronx, or a Native American reservation, or a former coal-mining town that has no real jobs anymore, where it was all white - why do we think of those, of developing in those places, where it's only two kinds of development, where it's either the poor folks that are there are either bought it; generally bought out, or displaced by people with higher incomes  - that typical gentrification kind of phenomena - or its poverty-level economic maintenance, which is still real estate development, wherein there's [cross talk]   Majora Carter: The whole idea is that why are there only two kinds of development that happen in low-status communities? Why can't we use it as a way to increase economic diversity, and to build wealth creation, and just make it so that people love their neighborhoods, as opposed to feeling like they've got to move out of them in order to live a little bit better? I accept that challenge, and I really believe that that's what I'm doing. So, yeah, as a developer, and as a black woman developer, whose working in this really interesting way, where I absolutely ... There is no way I would ever build an exclusively affordable-housing complex for the lowest-   Eve Picker: I'm glad you said that.   Majora Carter: Never, never! I've been, in some circles within the non-profit industrial complex, demonized for that, because I should be doing the kind of things, where it's like [cross talk] for the people. I'm like, poor communities concentrate- low-status communities concentrate poverty and all of the issues that are associated with it - low health outcomes, poor educational attainment, higher rates of being involved in the justice system, or being touched by it in some way, and your family ... Obviously, higher rates of unemployment, and poverty, and just creating a sense of lack of hope within those communities.   Majora Carter: Why would I want to build more of that?   Eve Picker: Yeah.   Majora Carter: Unless, of course, you're getting big developer fees, and you really don't care about the communities that you're working in, which is why I understand why most people hate developers so much.   Eve Picker: Be sure to go to EvePicker.com and sign up for my free educational newsletter about impact real estate investing. You'll be among the first to hear about new projects you can invest in. That's EvePicker.com. Thanks so much.   Eve Picker: Yeah, no, I get it, too. But I'm really fascinated by what you're saying, and I totally agree with it. I've watched, for years, in Pittsburgh, the affordable housing product sort of live in neighborhoods that all start looking the same - this cookie-cutter affordable-housing product. It doesn't ... While, definitely, people need decent places to live, and it accomplishes that, it doesn't change the nature of what's happening in those neighborhoods. The moment you kind of push that edge of that, that's when ... I don't know, how do you stop speculators? It's something I think about a lot.   Majora Carter: We [cross talk] try to and are still trying a number of things. One of them is to continue talking about the approach that we've taken with our own real estate development and actually putting our own money where our mouth is. So, as developers, we did spend a lot of time within our own community just really understanding what are some of the hopes, and dreams, and aspirations, and, of course, needs within the community.   Majora Carter: We did hundreds and hundreds of surveys; realized that what people in a neighborhood, like the South Bronx, which is one of the poorest parts of the country within congressional districts, are the kind of the same things that anybody in a middle-class community wants. They want great places to work, with housing that- quality housing that matches their income. They want places where they could afford to buy new things that they need. They want lifestyle infrastructure, like cafes, and coffee shops, and bars, and things of that nature. They want those kind of things so they can feel a sense of value that is inherent within their own community. That goes back to that ...   Majora Carter: What happens within low-status communities a lot ... Because, of course, real estate developers, they take the kind of 20-, 30-year long-term view of what's happening, in terms of how communities are going, to plan; whereas, in our communities, we're taught that there's no real value in them. So, it's easy, I think, for them, if your family owned a home during a time of severe financial disinvestment in America, like the way that my family ... My dad bought the house I was born and raised in the 1940s. By the time the '60s, and the '70s rolled around, there was so much white flight and disinvestment within the community, and arson, because landlords were torching the buildings there, because there was no financial investment coming in, so the most they could do is get insurance money.   Majora Carter: It was a really bad kind of space. That kind of lingering understanding - this is what our community is ... Of course, you own property. It's going to have an impact on you, and you're going to feel like ... The second you can move, you're going to get out. Predatory speculators understand that. They're counting on us not knowing the value of our own home. I can't tell you how many little notes I get under my door, or they found my cell phone ... They're telling me they can buy my house for cash, and close within a week. This is a common occurrence.   Eve Picker: Wow.   Majora Carter: For folks that don't understand what they have, guess what? They're going to be like, "You want to pay me what for this crap that I'm living in right now?" So, they end up selling, actually, generally for less than what the house is worth, because they just don't know. Then the predatory speculator makes out really well.   Majora Carter: Since there isn't a whole lot, from what I've seen, within the non-profit industrial complex and communities like this, that's actually going to support homeowners within a community; which I think home homeownership is actually often - especially in areas where there's a rental unit in them - there's very little support to support those folks, like there's [cross talk] non-profits or government. They're like, "Oh, we're going to focus on the poorest people in those communities," and anybody else, it's like sucks to be them, because it's almost like they're invisible.   Majora Carter: What we've actually been doing on our own is trying to identify what are ... First of all, some of the homeowners, and just letting them know, "You're sitting on your family's legacy. You should be using this to help create wealth and retain it within your own family. Or, if you want to sell, at least understand what you got so that you're not being reamed for it."   Majora Carter: The other thing is we've actually hosted things like small zero-percent-interest loan workshops, and low-interest-loan workshops and you specifically - on our own dime - just so that folks have an understanding of what that is. On another level, and I think funny, because this is, again, on my own time, because we don't have funding to do this; it's just that we saw that it was a need ... We're really hoping that we are going to be able to convince somebody or other to develop some kind of a fund that supports low-income homeowners in low-status communities.   Majora Carter: You know there's that cooling-off period, if you change and get insurance, or you buy a house, or whatever, and you've got a little bit of time where you've got to prove that this is what you want? Wouldn't that be kind of great that before any kind of real estate transaction goes down in a neighborhood like this, that there's actually folks just making sure that folks understand what their options are?   Eve Picker: That would be great. What would the fund ideally do?   Majora Carter: It would, number one, support folks to actually be in that role, to play that kind of adviser role to the folks to let them know what their options are. But also, people may need ... We find that some folks are selling their homes [cross talk]   Eve Picker: -could not repair the roof.   Majora Carter: Yeah!   Eve Picker: I know, I know.   Majora Carter: One little thing, and it's just like [cross talk]   Eve Picker: So, a neighborhood fund- a neighborhood fund for people who really need help to keep them in their homes. I thought Philadelphia was doing a program like that.   Majora Carter: It is ... New York is definitely not; New York City, at least [cross talk]   Eve Picker: Yeah.   Majora Carter: -sad how little they think about it-   Eve Picker: I think there are ways to do a fund like that. Do you think there are people in the neighborhood that would contribute to a fund like that, themselves, in their own neighborhood?   Majora Carter: I'm not sure about that. I think it's something that, frankly, should be a part of city government. I really do, because I feel like they've just- they watch the tax rolls in communities like ours, and it does fall along racial lines, as well. Nobody pays attention in poorer communities of color to supporting the homeownership right here. It's not in our government. There are non-profits; there are a few nonprofits that work on- none in the area that I'm in, actually, which is why we've been posting those type of meetings and bringing those resources in. It's really challenging.   Majora Carter: Another thing that we're working on and is literally building our own projects to prove this talent-retention strategy that we have. It's like if you build the kind of community that makes people feel like they don't have to move out of it, in order to live in a better one ... But you've got to build it. One of the things that we saw in all of our research, in the market research that we did here, was that people were leaving the community across income levels; not because they thought the neighborhood was dangerous or anything like that.   Majora Carter: It was because it was- there was no real lifestyle infrastructure here. There was no place to get a drink, if you're an adult, that wasn't a topless bar; there wasn't a coffee shop, or a bookstore, anything like that. Even the kind of cute stores that people want to go to, or a place to get dinner. There's plenty of greasy spoon places, and, of course, fast-food chains, et cetera, but nothing that actually spelled quality in any real way, and no attractive third spaces that made people want to stick around, like a coffee shop with Wi-Fi.   Majora Carter: We actually were able to acquire the lease on two very inexpensive leases on the main street in our community. It was just a wonderful deal that we got, long term. So, we were just like, "This is great." We looked, actually, for a coffee-shop operator for years-   Eve Picker: For years?   Majora Carter: Oh, yeah, literally. We had that lease for a while [cross talk] and basically, it was clear, because it looked like the market here wouldn't appreciate anything like this, even though we knew that our data proved otherwise, because we knew people were leaving the community to experience things like that-   Eve Picker: I know what happened. You started it yourself, right?   Majora Carter: Exactly. I was never planning to be a barista [cross talk]   Eve Picker: Well, there's not many developers who've done that in areas where no one sees the market potential, because our financial institutions - I sound a little bit like a broken record, because there's lots of reasons to say this - financial institutions, really, they're crushing the innovation of the cities-   Majora Carter: Exactly.   Eve Picker: They're really just financing cookie-cutter projects, so the moment you do something different  ... I mean, I get it. They have regulators, but shouldn't someone step up?   Majora Carter: Yes! Yes! You know what? What was wonderful is that, in our example ... We decided to open- we first started- it was a joint venture with a really amazing coffee shop and roaster downtown. They'd never had a Bronx presence, and was kind of interested in the idea, called Birch Coffee. So, we partnered with them for almost a year. First, it took six months just to understand the business. Then, we actually opened in the latter half of the year. We learned everything from them about how to actually operate a coffee shop, and bringing people in, all that stuff. It was amazing. It really was their guidance [inaudible] I am so grateful.   Majora Carter: But it was sort of clear that the market up here was a little different than this very high-end big coffee shop downtown, where there'd be no flavors, or whipped cream, and syrups, and people ... That's what, frankly, people wanted up here. We also wanted to provide healthy options, as well, but we had- in order to stay in business, we actually had to respond to the market. So, we actually [cross talk]   Eve Picker: They wanted over-the-top luxury, right?   Majora Carter: Yes, and it's just like no. I know expertly steamed milk is beautiful, on its own, but, look, if somebody wants whipped cream on top of it, I'm going to give it to them.   Eve Picker: Yes!   Majora Carter: Oh, it was just [cross talk]   Eve Picker: That's a Viennese, right? [cross talk]   Majora Carter: -we should start calling it that now. You're totally right.   Eve Picker: Yeah, and they're all over the ... Call it a Viennese.   Majora Carter: What was so interesting is that it ... It also gave us an opportunity to stick our own swagger on it, quite frankly-   Eve Picker: Right.   Majora Carter: -because, after all, this is the South Bronx. It is the birthplace of hip hop. We are all about innovation. We were like, we need this cafe to pay homage to that. We literally ended up moving it to a larger space, and then we actually hired a two hip hop historians to actually help us curate the actual wallpaper, which is literally the early days of hip hop, mostly [broad] space. We just built this ... It's like an homage to graffiti, and it's just beautiful.   Majora Carter: We use it as this tremendous third space for open mikes, and art shows. It's just really this beautiful community gathering spot. It did take us a while to get to that point at a place where we won't be losing money soon, which is awesome. But what was fascinating about it was the fact that, early on, we literally ran out of money to do it, because we were not anticipating ... First-time coffee shop owners not knowing anything [cross talk] One of the members of the advisory board that we had that was literally giving us intel about how to do our projects better, actually, they volunteered to invest- her family volunteered to invest in our project-   Eve Picker: Isn't that great?   Majora Carter: It was just like ... What was amazing was that we didn't talk about it. We socialize a lot of things, and it's a small community, but what was interesting is that the way people found out that another family in the community had invested in this business was just like, "Wait, we can do that?" I'll never forget some of the conversations we've had about it. It was just so beautiful that it was ... Because people just did not realize that this was like within their grasp.   Eve Picker: Yeah.   Majora Carter: For our next project, we acquired [cross talk]   Eve Picker: I think you should- I think you should be the spokesperson for Small Change [cross talk] that's really what my hope is for it, that people can invest in the way big investors can invest and they can get the same return. Because, you know, hey, it's money, right? Why should they get less than someone else? Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt you-   Majora Carter: -powerful place.   Eve Picker: Very powerful.   Majora Carter: -just to even know that you can add value. Literally, you are adding the value to make this project grow. It is really amazing. Our next project, we acquired a rail station, a former rail station, that was designed by the same architect that did the Woolworth Building, and the U.S. Supreme Court building - his name's Cass Gilbert. Of course, I'm sure you know who that is. I owned a little piece of Cass Gilbert, like Woo-Hoo!, Which just makes me very happy. It really does! It's only about 4,000 square feet. Our goal is to transform that into a restaurant incubator, or a food hub for local chefs, because we've ... Interestingly enough, the Bronx has some tremendous culinary talent that comes out [cross talk]   Eve Picker: I'm sure it does, yeah.   Majora Carter: There's this one group called Ghetto Gastros. It is four young men from the Bronx; [cross talk] one of them I mentored 20 years ago, which I'm so proud of. Now, they're like these ridiculous caterers that are flown all over the world to do their version ... Haute couture is- I think that's a fashion term. That's not a food term. It's like nouvelle cuisine, except they put their spin on it, because they're these wonderful boys from the hood, but they're all trained chefs. It's unbelievable what they do, and it's just extraordinary. Ghetto Gastro - you look it up [cross talk] There are folks like that literally come from our communities, but then kind of parachute out, because there aren't many opportunities for them to open up businesses here. I'm like, how cool would it be if we had this restaurant [cross talk]   Eve Picker: Yeah, that'd be awesome. You know, we have an incubator like that in Pittsburgh that's done very well. I think they've got three stations, and they have like rotating startups in there.   Majora Carter: Because the restaurant incubatees, all they do, they cook ... In our version, we would manage the bar and the dining area, and each one of the restaurateurs, either three or four, depending on what we can fit, is literally what ... They would, instead of rent, we would get a gross percentage of sales [cross talk]   Eve Picker: Right, right, right, right.   Majora Carter: -they get a chance to really hone their craft-   Eve Picker: Right.   Majora Carter: -and at least focus on building their market, but the-   Eve Picker: What's the holdup? Why can't you get that off the ground?   Majora Carter: We're in a neighborhood that's not ... You can read lots of real estate development articles about the South Bronx, and how it's like the next ... It's like the next extension of Manhattan, and it's booming, and there's a lot of market rate development going on, and a lot of commercial things happening in it. But that's the part of the South Bronx where that's happening. There are other parts of the South Bronx, which is where I'm in, and born, and raised, and still live, that's the part that's sort of being reserved for poverty level economic maintenance [cross talk] Yep.   Majora Carter: There is one big project that's coming up here that's about ... Basically, it's another low-income-housing project. It's so crystal clear that all that's happening is they're trying to concentrate more and more poverty here. I think that's one of the reasons why it's kind of like, "Well, that's what happens here, so we can't really think about investing in it." Also, it seems like it might be considered a smaller- like almost too small a project for some folks, as well, because-   Eve Picker: How many square feet is that?   Majora Carter: It's only 4,000 square feet.   Eve Picker: Oh, that's big enough.   Majora Carter: That's about- with all the added ... We actually, interestingly enough, discovered a basement [cross talk] found the other room up top. It was- we discovered another basement [cross talk]   Eve Picker: That could be the speakeasy [cross talk]   Majora Carter: You know that to redevelop a 5,000-square-foot space, it's almost as ... The brain damage is about the same as a 50,000-square-foot space, but the returns are much higher for the 50,000-square-foot space. So, I think that's also part of it, as well.   Eve Picker: Yes, but the return on this would be phenomenal for that neighborhood [cross talk]   Majora Carter: Oh, absolutely.   Eve Picker: -the triple-bottom-line return that really we're talking about here. I don't know. I think there would be people who would invest. I really do. It's really an amazing story. I want to come see the building, and I want to eat with Ghetto Gastro, and-   Majora Carter: I know! Oh, my gosh, who knows where they are right now? [cross talk]   Eve Picker: -because the neighborhood sounds amazing, and I want to cry when I hear about more and more affordable housing being built.   Majora Carter: I know, I know, and it's just like ... I know whenever I say that, I have to preface it with, "Please don't think that Majora Carter hates poor people," because I think that's the way that folks immediately go, like, "Oh, she doesn't want any more affordable housing." I want- Actually, I do want more affordable housing. I want affordable housing for a range of incomes, because we know that economic diversity needs economic stability and community stability. Whereas, the concentration of poverty is exactly opposite that.   Majora Carter: But again, if we've been led to believe that this is all that happens in low-status communities, we start to believe it, and then feel the only option is to leave, if we have an opportunity to do so. Who does that benefit? It benefits the predatory speculators and the government programs, who take advantage of the fact that there are really poor people in our communities that probably have lifestyle-related illnesses, low educational attainment, or who'll probably be within the justice system. They make money for somebody; not for the people that are here. It just seems like such a tragically obvious thing that we see happening over, and over, and over again, and since we're led to believe that there's no real value in our communities, we internalize it.   Eve Picker: Yes. A lot of this is about educating community, right?   Majora Carter: Yeah.   Eve Picker: What community-engagement tools do you think work best?   Majora Carter: Honestly, opening our coffee shop [cross talk] having a presence, and being there has been so transformative. My husband and I both work there [inaudible] and work out of it a lot. We've met ... I thought I knew a lot of people in my own neighborhood, but I have met so many more, as a result of having that space, opening it up in a way that is just- it's not a community center that people feel like they've got to tip-toe in, or have a problem to be in. No, this is a place of joy, and access.   Majora Carter: I'll give you an example of how I knew that we were really something that our community appreciated, because, again, the idea ... I mentioned before that some folks within the social justice industrial complex totally demonized me and think that I'm bringing in developers to kick out poor people. Some of the stuff is just insane, and they won't acknowledge that I'm actually a developer. It's like, no, no, no, I'm the developer. I want to be called a developer ... I have my own ideas. I don't want to talk to these guys.   Majora Carter: We were hosting a workshop for small business owners in the community, as well as homeowners to get access to capital for zero-percent-interest loans and low-interest loans and also figure out other ways ... There was going to be a presentation on how to make your building- add additional units on top of your building, to see if this is something even you could do. We were protested. We had 40 people inside the space waiting to hear more about these zero-percent-interest loans and how do you make your actual building work for you, and there were like 10-15 people outside yelling about how I was destroying the neighborhoods with bringing a coffee shop there.   Eve Picker: Really?   Majora Carter: Yeah, and I have to tell you, I was ... The signs were huge. They were saying, "Majora Carter destroys the South Bronx one coffee at a time." That I'm a community destroyer. It was just like, "Some of you people know me ... You could've just literally knocked on my door and said, 'Can we talk?'" But they wouldn't do that. But I have to say, after that, I'm like, "Oh, my God, my whole neighborhood is seeing people yelling, with my name on a sign, talking about how evil I am.   Eve Picker: Yeah.   Majora Carter: I was just like, "We might have to close this stupid coffee shop. I mean, who's going to want to come?" The next day, we had the best day ever-   Eve Picker: Oh, that's really great.   Majora Carter: The best day ever. We had people coming in, one after another. It was like, "You know what? I've actually never even been here before, but I saw that, and I thought that was stupid. I'm going to buy a cup of coffee just to support you." I was just like [cross talk]   Eve Picker: That's really lovely. That's really lovely. Yes, yes, it is. Many people just fear change, right?   Majora Carter: Yes, and I get it, and I understand ... That's like to your point, it is we fear what we don't know, but if we don't actually look at ... Because real estate developers ... You know that Bishop Desmond Tutu quote? A knife's a knife. You could either use it to cut a hole in somebody or to cut a slice of bread and feed it to your child ... It's a tool. We can use it for horrible things, or we could use it for great stuff, but it is what it is. But how we use it, and unless we are empowering ourselves and other folks who are actually looking at places that actually have that triple bottom line and going, "That's valuable. Maybe I won't make the kind of returns ..." because I'm sure ... My rail station, one of the reasons why it's also empty is because I've been very choosy. I am not going to open it up to another health clinic, or a tax-prep place that's [cross talk]   Eve Picker: Yeah, yeah, yeah ...   Majora Carter: We've said no to folks like that.   Eve Picker: Yeah.   Majora Carter: No. So, yeah-   Eve Picker: So have I, so you're making me feel stronger.   Majora Carter: Good, good. No, I don't mind at all; at all.   Eve Picker: I said no to a tax-prep space. I couldn't bring myself to sign the lease. I just couldn't do it.   Majora Carter: They have so much money, and they don't even have to be open. It's really crazy.   Eve Picker: No, they don't have to be open. That's the really bad thing. What a horrible thing to do in a neighborhood, just have a place that's open for three months and then a shuttered storefront [cross talk] Anyway, now we've said what we think ... Just like there's been a wave of green-washing in this country, but I feel like there's a wave of good-washing. People are talking about impact investing.   Majora Carter: I hope so.   Eve Picker: But when I hear you, I really wonder if they're really impact investing.   Majora Carter: Nope.   Eve Picker: What do you think the future holds for impact investing? What do we have to do to change that?   Majora Carter: I am actually hopeful about some of the smaller-scale investment platforms that are out there, and just crowdfunding, in general, for real estate. I'm still learning about it. I do feel like our communities and our country, as a whole, is really only going to be changed when we start seeing each other in ways that we want to support. Look, I'm a woman of faith, so I think I actually really do believe that we can create a kind of heaven on earth, if we were really good at it, but I also think that- I am hopeful that ... People are really tired of the expecting the status quo, because, by all accounts ... I've got great vision. I have no balance sheet, so I don't look good to anybody, and I get that, but I have a track record of getting things done, and-   Eve Picker: No, you don't look good to very traditional financial [cross talk]   Majora Carter: No, I look miserable.   Eve Picker: You look great to other people, so that's-   Majora Carter: Yes, and those are the people that I'm hoping will go, "Oh, wait ..." But in order to continue to do that great work, she needs something that's a little bit different than what she was getting before." That's what I'm hoping. Because I do- I also love the idea of people really taking ownership. I think that's been one of the reasons why our low-status communities in America feel so disjointed and so destabilized is because we don't have a way to really keep and retain roots in those areas where there's access to capital, or predatory speculation. It's all up in there, just [cross talk]   Eve Picker: But it's really hard to get a neighborhood to focus, when has more than its fair share of single parents and people with two or three jobs.   Majora Carter: Those are the people that want more, and you know what? Believe me, and not to pooh-pooh it at all, yes, there are those who are not going to get out of their heads at all, but then there's those are just like, "You know what? Why can't I have it?" There's always a critical mass of folks who are just literally waiting for something to do, like, frankly, the folks who saw me being bullied with this protest and who were just like, "No, wait ... I see that. I know what I can do." You may think that just buying a cup of coffee, a specialty cup of coffee, might not be an act of rebellion or resistance, but I absolutely looked at it like it was.   Eve Picker: Yeah, I think you're right.   Majora Carter: I think there's more of that that's just waiting for a reason to be there, to actually stand up and be counted, and maybe even count a little bit of their own dollars to say, "You know what? Yeah, I believe in it. I believe in it so much that I'm going to invest in it."   Eve Picker: So that's what we've got to make happen at the train station, right?   Majora Carter: Yes [cross talk]   Eve Picker: I'm going to ask three sign-off questions that I ask of everyone, because I think I've taken up enough of your time. I could keep talking to you all day long.   Majora Carter: I know. I love it [cross talk]   Eve Picker: I think I know the answer to this, but we may as well reiterate - what's the key factor that makes a real estate project impactful to you?   Majora Carter: Mixed-income housing, mixed-use ... Well, the actual specifics - mixed income housing and mixed-use economic developments. But I think the real vision is talent retention in low-status communities.   Eve Picker: Then, do you think that crowdfunding might ... I mean, you touched on crowdfunding. Do you think it might benefit impact real estate developers in more ways than just raising money?   Majora Carter: Would it impact real estate developers?   Eve Picker: Well, or neighborhoods or any [cross talk]   Majora Carter: -no, I think that you couple the idea of putting your cash into something that you believe in that is actually going to support your community creates a level of ownership that, you can't buy that; you just can't. It sets up a foundation and roots in ways that I think a lot of folks wouldn't know what else to deal with.   Eve Picker: I think that's right. Then, this is a really hard one - if you were going to change one thing to make real estate development better in the U.S., what would it be?   Majora Carter: Just one?   Eve Picker: Blow up all the Walmarts ... I'm just joking ...   Majora Carter: You know what? Honestly, I really would go back to  ... It's very practical. Creating a fund and education platform specifically for people in low-status communities to either retain their properties or purchase them.   Eve Picker: Like a land bank.   Majora Carter: Mm-hmm. It's not necessarily a community land trust, although that could certainly be a byproduct or a result of it, absolutely. But I think, ultimately, right now, we just have to stop the bleeding. I just think about my own neighborhood, whereas, I think within the past 10 years, our local homeownership rate has gone down from like 20 percent down to less than seven.   Eve Picker: Oh, why? Why did that happen?   Majora Carter: Because predatory speculators [cross talk]   Eve Picker: -foreclosures ...   Majora Carter: Yeah.   Eve Picker: That's really bad.   Majora Carter: Yep, exactly.   Eve Picker: Well, on that sad note, I'm going to say [cross talk] I'm going to say thank you very much for talking to me. I thoroughly enjoyed it-   Majora Carter: Thank you. Right back at you.   Eve Picker: -and I really hope we'll continue talking.   Majora Carter: Cool. I hope so. Yes.   Eve Picker: That was Majora Carter. I'm in awe. Majora is uncompromising about her mission. She lives and works in Hunts Point in the South Bronx, one of America's lowest-status communities, just two blocks from the house she grew up in. Majora is undaunted by taking new and necessary steps. When it became clear that no coffee shop operator wanted to operate out of her space in the neighborhood, she created a own business to achieve her goal. She's committed to further developing the neighborhood where she lives and has now set her sights on the conversion of a former railway station into a food hub. She lives in a brownstone, two blocks from the one she grew up in. Now that is putting your money where your mouth is.   Eve Picker: You can find out more about impact real estate investing and access the show notes for today's episode at my website, EvePicker.com. While you're there, sign up for my newsletter to find out more about how to make money in real estate while building better cities. Thank you so much for spending your time with me today, and thank you, Majora, for sharing your thoughts. We'll talk again soon, but for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.

[fusion_builder_container hundred_percent="no" equal_height_columns="no" menu_anchor="" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" id="" background_color="" background_image="" background_position="center center" background_repeat="no-repeat" fade="no" background_parallax="none" parallax_speed="0.3" video_mp4="" video_webm="" video_ogv="" video_url="" video_aspect_ratio="16:9" video_loop="yes" video_mute="yes" overlay_color="" video_preview_image="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" padding_top="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" padding_right=""][fusion_builder_row][fusion_builder_column type="1_1" layout="1_1" background_position="left top" background_color="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" border_position="all" spacing="yes" background_image="" background_repeat="no-repeat" padding_top="" padding_right="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" margin_top="0px" margin_bottom="0px" class="" id="" animation_type="" animation_speed="0.3" animation_direction="left" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" center_content="no" last="no" min_height="" hover_type="none" link=""][fusion_text][/fusion_text][fusion_text] Listen via YouTube video if desired [/fusion_text][fusion_youtube id=" https://youtu.be/TKvtTopIsjI" alignment="center" width="" height="" autoplay="false" api_params="&rel=0" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" /][fusion_text] A significant key to Joanna Keskitalo's is 120 transactions a year is how she follows-up on leads. Read on for details... You've heard it said "the fortune is in the follow through."  Well, that's definitely the case with Joanna Keskitalo.  Joanna is a high-volume producer, but not for the reasons most people would think.  She's driven, but she's not a high-pressure sales person.  Her key?  It's all in her follow through. If you want to grow your business to a "top producer" level, you master the follow through to convert leads to clients.  And on this call, that's one of the things we talk about! Listen as a podcast while driving, or watch the live interview. Transcription (was completed by automated process.  Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:00:01] This is the get sellers calling you marketing podcasts for real estate agents. And I'm Beatty Carmichael for simple to do. Proven marketing strategies focus exclusively on finding sellers and getting more listings. Visit our Web site and get sellers calling you dot com. And now let's begin our next session of get sellers calling you. [00:00:23] Hi, I'm Beatty Carmichael, and welcome to the Get Sellers calling you realtor podcast. I'm excited today because I get to interview another wonderful agent, actually one of our clients and a strong producer named Joanna Keskitalo from South Carolina. Did I pronounce last name right, Joanna? [00:00:41] You did well. [00:00:42] Ok. Go. Go. Go. So. Hey, Johnny, I just want to say thank you again for being on the call with us today and sharing some of your insights and growing the business and things that really make it work for you. [00:00:57] Well, thank you. You're welcome. Glad to be here. [00:01:01] Now, which part of South Carolina are you in? [00:01:05] Kind of a upstate, little bit into the mountains where I live is about 15 to 20 minutes from the North Carolina border. So they call it upstate Greenville. [00:01:20] Area. [00:01:22] Well, that's a pretty area I know I used to spend a lot of my time in the mountain side of North Carolina and we would come down into Greenville. I used to I used to paddle rivers. So this is now in grade school, junior high high school. And so we'd go up there and all kinds of beautiful rivers and one of one or two were down in South Carolina. So that's a gorgeous area you're in. Oh, yes. And and just for the listeners on the call. Normally we do these as video podcast, but as the Lord would have it or as the enemy would have it, we couldn't quite get that to work out. So. So this is will be a great call, but it's entirely audio. And so join in. Tell us just if you wouldn't mind, just kind of set the stage. Can you tell us just a little bit about who you are and about your real estate business and and and and who is Joanna Khatalla? [00:02:22] Yes, I I've been in the real estate industry since 2006. Before that, I was a loan officer and kind of grew up in the building industry between and I was born and raised in Florida and then moved up here. The end of my junior year. And then from there I was. Did massage a little while and then went to college. And then. And then I started as a loan officer. And my father was a home builder who actually took me on as his real estate agent. So now it's been about 14 years. Then through a couple of different brokerages and started my own brokerage about eight or nine years ago, I have about seven agents underneath me now and we did about 22 million last year. One hundred and eight transactions and have already closed down six or seven million this year and have about eight million pending. [00:03:23] So is that all your personal volume or is that you and your. [00:03:30] Well, I kind of run it more like a team where it's all my leads and everything, so. [00:03:37] Yes, I'm involved personally pretty closely in each transaction. [00:03:41] So very, very cool. I love it. I just have to ask this question. Don has. [00:03:47] You know, I've always wondered the difference between a loan officer and a real estate agent. Obviously, you enjoy the realtor side more than a loan officer. What's the big difference that you've found? [00:03:59] I mean, I would definitely say the people interaction versus paper work is is probably the biggest thing. And yeah, I wasn't good at sitting behind a desk guy. My my first job out was with G E through Kelly Services, a staffing company, and I was under the admin for probably twenty two male engineers. And I I lasted about a month and a half in this cubicle doing schematic drawing and looking at where they don't meet each other. You know, the schematic drawing. I was like, no, that was not for me. So definitely, definitely being around people and is. Definitely more of a passion and joy than than shuffling paperwork, you know. [00:04:51] And though I love it for my 24 year old son, he was 22 at the time. He got this intern job one summer. So he's he's studying. He was he's already graduate now by the time he was in supply chain management. So, yes, his job at this 200 million a year business. They put him in a cubicle with a computer. His job was to do supply chain management type stuff. He calls me during the first day of the job and said, Dad, I can't stand this. [00:05:22] I never want a cubicle job ever again. You know that he learned real quick that was not him. So I love it. [00:05:29] No, no. And and I mean that from there. I mean, that can commission structure for me and a go getter and someone that can can do things on their own. I mean, I just cannot. I'm way too efficient to be punching a clock. So so like I get it. [00:05:49] So let me ask you a question. Go get getter side. So you've obviously I mean, you've been a go getter is it's obvious you've you started your career. You quickly moved into having your own business, being your own broker, building a team. You're involved with everything. Talk to me a little bit. So, you know, most agents out there. Their biggest struggle is getting enough leads and prospects to talk with and to work with. And it sounds like you've built kind of a machine of some sort, at least some of system. What are you doing? What are you do that you've found to really work well with you guys? [00:06:29] Well, like I said, my father was a home builder and and that really started and I guess that's a blessing. But it was that he he struggled and finding a real estate agent that. [00:06:45] You know, really was proficient enough for him to handle and and, you know, knowing in the construction industry. So I can't say I wasn't blessed in getting, you know, a start, but. Are you do you have to pound the pavement? You have to follow up with people. I would not describe me as like I mean, maybe that's wrong to say, but like a old car salesman type. I'm not pushy, but I am persistent. Like, follow up, follow up, follow up. I mean, that's just what you got to do in that. And then and not only following up once you're in in the transaction is to, you know, follow through and then follow through. Tell that to the closing table. Like it's way easier not to let those go and just wait for the next buyer as fighting every portion that it takes to get them closed. So I would think that the follow up and follow through are two biggies that a lot of people do fail at because it is it's consistent and it's hard work. So I think those are two things that you would need to be to be a successful real estate broker agent. [00:08:14] We know they they say that a fortune is in a follow through. And that is so Treves. I was telling a another guy today. This is a few years back. You know, we had a handful of sales reps and one sales rep. I was to tell him that, you know, you know, first, three weeks after doing a presentation, he had the lowest conversion rate. But within another four weeks, he had the highest conversion rate of anyone because the fortune is in a follow through. You have a. So in terms of the people that you guys work with and the work that you do, are you. And I want to I want to understand who your prospects are and then ask and find out a little bit about your follow up and how you manage it. [00:08:58] Do you do you follow up with different leads differently? I mean, are you. First off, I guess. What type of leaders are you generating? Are they coming to you or are you buying leads or you generating your own? It's your business source coming through. [00:09:16] Well, I handle the I'm a little bit different because the new construction and the custom home side and that is, you know, our main builders. My father and husband. So I handle all of their. Customers. So we're doing a lot of just name building through. Social media and through the Web sites, and so I guess the the follow up or follow through as far as that goes, I mean, just pictures and constantly updating all the Web sites and that kind of thing. In this day and age, a lot of social media on on all the different sites. So I do that through the real estate side and the building side and then the building a lot of times they'll have a house to sell. And so I will get those listings. But then in general, I mean, it's not it's not it's not even 50 percent of my business that comes through the custom and that. And we. I mean, when you're in 14 years. Yes. We have a database system used, top producer. And then you're doing now the postcards and the. And the Monday morning copies and that kind of follow up with past referrals and past clients. A lot of. Again, through social media, I mean, it is easier that way. If you can build a relationship where you can be Facebook friends with them, they get to know you. They feel like they get to know you more personally. You know, if you if you are a little bit more open and vulnerable in that social media, that all all that kind of stuff helps but a ton of a ton of marketing in every way. [00:11:10] So, yes. [00:11:11] So, you know, it's interesting you're talking about Facebook and just being vulnerable. I think it is so important. So you've got all your all your past clients and all your other contacts or all friends and your Facebook and Facebook friends. Right. [00:11:28] I try. You know what I mean? And and do I do hold the private account, you know, personally? And then obviously the the real estate and building pages are public. But I'm still a little bit, you know, hold myself right that I haven't got my personal pages are still held private, but that I think they appreciate where you're accepting or asking them for a friend request. And that is where you can be, you know, more. [00:12:00] I don't know. Vulnerable is the right word, but more personal. In your in your post, in that kind of stuff without worrying about it being on a on a totally public forum. [00:12:10] You know, when you said that the thing hit me and then I'm falling, maybe connected the dots that I've always been spinning back in my mind. So I just set the stage. One of our other clients used us. [00:12:23] And then he was also I did a Facebook community page for it was a fifteen hundred home forum he was in and he was the administrator on the page. So every time someone joined the Facebook page as the administrator, he would welcome them, but then he would also send them a friend request personally from his Facebook account. And this is what he sought to share with me. His name is Nelson. And he said, you share that. You know, he put everyone on as friends on his Facebook account. And then he was just normal, you know, sending all updating things just personally what's going on in his life and those things. And and I think was 18 months he went from basically nothing, no market share and form to like 25 percent market share in other team only has 50 percent. And you connected the dots is when when they know you, they see you all the time. [00:13:22] And now they feel like they're you know, they see you on Facebook. And so they feel like they really get they know you more. And it makes it more personal. Right. So talk to me in terms of follow up. [00:13:34] So follow up. Follow up. Follow what? How did you manage? Okay. So you're working with a lot of people and you get a lot of this is from the construction and a lot of business, I guess, from past clients and just other people. Are you. Do you use. Tell me about your follow up system. Because this is one. I'll be honest. This is when when we work with clients. This is one of the big challenges. They're not. They don't have a good system. What have you what have you found? Doesn't work. What did you kind of do in the early days? It just kind of blew up on you. And then what have you found really makes it all work for you. [00:14:15] I have to think about that one, but. [00:14:19] I mean, I have used. [00:14:23] I mean, a database system. I mean, once it gets messy, it's so I still have top producer because I have those leads in there and then, you know, now I'm pretty strict on my admins and stuff on keeping that database because. You know, if it gets big enough and and a big company wants to look at buying you out or something, really the only thing that you are selling. Is your database. So I went from like not understanding that and caring about. My database as like now is part of closing steps. Where are you? Where? I mean, I'm lucky enough to be able to afford admin help at this point. But if you had it clean from the beginning and people would be from step one. What you can build to sell later. Is so important and it's easier to start that at step 1 than trying to find out and then figuring out if they moved and where. But now it's part of closing steps where we come work, where we get when they go the closing, we get the e-mails and that kind of thing. And it's clean. Cleaner in the process. And it's a much cleaner database. And that than, you know, it's the latter part of of my career. It should have been done from the beginning. But, you know, you just think you're going to work forever. [00:16:01] When you're when you get in the business in the 20s, you just say go, yeah, you does. [00:16:05] And now I'm like, think about retirement someday. And so and then all of follow up and everything can be more that is if your database is clean. So I would preach even more more to database and then follow up because then a lot of stuff can be automated. And I mean, like we talked about, I mean, phone calls are are difficult. I mean, I'm on the phone all day long. But to. I think that and I like. And I can't. I have to admit with our with our last conversation and maybe the people won't know what we're talking about. But I I talked about maybe that maybe we don't need to. When you get to trying to articulate this better, when you get large, large enough and you don't really need the business, the phone calls slack off. So maybe we were talking about looking at it from maybe that person needs to hear from you. We'll make it easier on me to make those phone calls, because if I'm looking at not so much as a business aspect and the next deal, because you will eventually you get so busy and stuff and then you're you you do develop a well oiled machine that kind of generates generate their own leaves and stuff. The phone calls are the easiest thing to go in. And like we we talked about that. Its people are the only thing that you can invest in that will be eternal in that play. So again, I haven't done that and I get busy, but it's definitely it gave me a different perspective on follow up. [00:18:03] I love them. And I love that. Gosh, there's so much I want to try to pull out of you. And I know I want to have time to, but I'm seeing all these rich targets to inquire on. Let me let me take that last comment. And so for those listening to this. Oh, what? What we talked about last time is I was sharing with Joanna that one the most important things you do with your personal lives, especially your personal lives. But any list is they do business with you first and foremost because they like you and they know that the relationship is authentic. And so one of the things that we teach our clients when we provide our agent dominators service is for them to reach out and make a phone call and or drop by. And actually personally engage. And it's not an engagement that says, hey, do you have any more real estate business I can help you with? But it's a hey, how are you today? I was just thinking about you. And this is where, Joanna, you were mentioning you're so busy, you just don't have time. And I said, you know, we're talking about you need to make time. And. And then we talked about on the eternal aspect that the most important thing is rather than calling for real estate, call for personal needs. And I think somewhere in this conversation I was talking with you. In fact, Dwight, this kind of springboard is I reached out to you a moment before our call. This was a couple of weeks ago. And on your voicemail, you mentioned, you know something about it then and be blessed. Do you remember putting that on your voicemail? [00:19:43] I do. It's kind of. Then then what I do for years, because my man life is hard now. You know what I mean? People are mean. You know? And just. If someone needs to. And and our blessings do come from the Lord. [00:19:59] And I want everybody to be blessed. And I'm going to cry. So, you know, I. I do. I just want to spread that if that spreads. Anyone here just listening to my voice, it better than like, hey, leave me a message. And they won't get back to you. At least they've heard that in a cell. So I have done that on my voicemail for years and I will continue to do so. [00:20:24] So, you know, and I do that, too. But but because I come in and I said, tell me about this, be blessed. And we've got in the conversation that you love the Lord Jesus, and he's a real integral part of your life. And this is been where I was suggesting to you when we last talked. Is both make these phone calls to your list. But don't worry about this, since the Lord can take care of it. When you just reach out as a person, say, hey, is there anything I can pray for, you got or just something like that and and use it as a ministry outreach. And that's what you were talking about. I just want to bring people into that loop of of the reference that you were making while we're on the subject. Let me springboard into this, if you don't mind. [00:21:11] So I really want to find out more about follow up, but there are a lot of people that can do a great follow up stuff. I'm real curious. If you don't mind me probing, I look to probe about your relationship with the Lord and how you see it impacting your real estate business. It's OK to kind of a good direction. We can go in. [00:21:32] Yes. OK. [00:21:36] Talk to me a little bit about that. You know, so you're a Christian. First off, let's make sure everyone. What does it mean to you? You're what does it mean to you to say, I'm a Christian? And what is your relationship with the Lord Main? And then and then I won't inquire about how it impacts your business. [00:21:54] You're listening to the Get Cellar's Calling You podcast to increase sales from past clients and sphere of influence or from a geographic farm, learn about Agent Dominator. [00:22:03] We guarantee your sales in writing or give your money back. To learn more. Visit our Web site and get sellers calling EW.com and Slike Agent Dominator from the menu. [00:22:13] And now back to the podcast. [00:22:19] Well, I'm probably a rebel in my face, you know. And I guess that stems from. [00:22:29] You know where we come from as far as my background. I mean, it's Apostolic Lutheran was was the original base and and a lot of them turned to legalism and really, really strict things, you know, from no birth controls to hearings, arson and all of this stuff that we're where we totally forgot about Grace. And so not that I'm like we're all sinners, but I'm I'm a rebel. And my faith that that. I don't want anything good I do to come through me that comes through Christ, Jesus. I don't even want to know when I'm doing good or or that I I just it scares me to to fall into legalism because I feel like that is the the devil's way of taking some Christians when they think they're doing good and that that it is all Christ. So for me, when it says Christian, it is Christ. He did it all. He paid it all. And that's where where I want to stay. So if I if I have a glass of wine or I say a cuss word or like that doesn't make me not a Christian. It makes me. Have a savior. So Grace is is where I live and breathe, so in it they come across that like, how can this girl be a Christian? Because she'll feel likes to have fun or do this or. And but that's why I'm so hard, again, you know, not focusing on the sin so much, but at focusing on our savior. [00:24:34] So I love that. And I think there's a lot of a lot of folks that kind of get caught up in this whole legalism. I'm real curious. I'm not getting into big detail, but just kind of conceptually in your mind, what is legal as in and here's what I'm asking for. So there are a lot of people out there that are listening to this that may not understand the difference between grace and legalism and really kind of what that means or maybe what are the things to watch out for. OK. If that's the right term to use, but of where they are. Maybe they think they're doing it right, but they find out they're following a set of laws instead of. Grace, can you give me just, you know, your simple definition of. Legalism versus grace. What does that mean? [00:25:25] I think it probably would come down to works and. You know, when they. It's that personal relationship with Christ that you need to have and realize that we are all sinners, whether we follow this set of rules or we don't follow this set of rules. You know where it where you know there is. Don't. But I think there's a lot of dude. You know what I mean? Like, they do this. Exactly right. And it's almost like a perfectionist path. So either the set of rules of don't or do. We're all sinners. And that Jesus paid that whether what that set of rules is. And so I think breaking of that and living. Knowing that Jesus paid it all brings a lot of freedom because I've seen a lot of people struggle really, really bad when they. Ah. Ah, just like need to be like reminded of forgiveness of sins and that kind of thing where they're so it's hard to explain unless you've seen it. But it's. Can you give me an example? [00:26:46] I mean, just something that comes to mind for someone to struggle because of this legalism approach? [00:26:53] Well, I mean, that I think a lot of I've seen it in people going down past where it where maybe they had it like, for example, like drinking was super bad in in our religion. But it was almost like, well, they messed up. So then they like went off the deep end and got more into drugs and drinking instead of being like, well, if you messed up and got drunk one time, it's okay. You know what I mean? So it brings them when they are pounded in in their head so much that then and you can't sin and you can't sin. You just totally wipe out what Jesus did. And in that grace. So, you know, I don't seen it. Yeah. [00:27:41] Yeah. Yeah. Those came to him. Is Roman J. There? No. [00:27:45] Therefore, there is no no condemnation for those who Jesus. And when you mentioned that I think so late. You know, I guess. Let me see if this makes sense. Legalism. Is that part where you're always condemned. You're you're feeling can do it right. Never do good enough. And great. Is that part says, hey, I understand I'm a sinner, but in Christ, there's no condemnation. And he's going to help me through this. And it's not the writers. [00:28:14] I mean, this is a kind of radical, right? I mean. Yeah, where? Where? [00:28:18] I mean, or like Pharisees and that where the judgment and that it just I've seen that so much and so many problems come from that, that that is where I don't want to. In the end I have a perfectionist nature and I am a rule follower. You know what I mean? But I don't. So I could go down that road easily where I could and then become judgmental and what you're doing and what. But I'm like, yeah, I've seen it mess up people so much that that's why my face. I just want to give it all to Christ and give it to him because it is what he did and and and that's where the focus is. And then it's weird because like if you don't if you focus on the note. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. Our human nature wants to do what we're not supposed to do. And if you focus on Christ and then that's where it says like God, don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing and things like that, that it becomes easier if you're focusing on Christ. You're actually doing good without knowing you are. So I feel like focus on crises that have a list of dos or don't really, really brings freedom. You know what I mean? And you have fun in life and you enjoy life and that of like I messed up again, you know, let me get with what I mean. [00:29:49] So Paul talks about renewing your mind. And and I think, you know, a lot of times we focus so much on. Don't do don't do I have to do it this way? Trying to be good. Right. [00:30:05] But the reality is, what you're talking about is when we have Christ and we focus on Christ, then he lives in us and through us. And we. More and more naturally do good and more and more naturally avoid bad. And it's that inside out as opposed to outside in. How does this how does your relationship. Talk to me a little bit about how you applied in your business. [00:30:28] So, you know, I got your voicemail and you try to should, you know, be blessed. Just helping. What other things do you do? How do you live your Christian life as a realtor and. [00:30:42] And how it impacted your business. [00:30:47] Well. [00:30:50] I don't know if I'm great. I mean, that's I mean, I guess I don't wear my heart on my sleeve. But maybe maybe people see because, you know, Christ is in me. Maybe people see that and I'm not shy. You know what I mean? I'm not totally politically correct or watch and hide my face. But I will share my faith and. [00:31:23] You know, so I don't know if I like I said, because I don't. I'm afraid of a list of do's and don'ts. I just kind of live. [00:31:36] And can you give me an example? And not not to bring attention to you. But here's kind of what I'm you know, for those who are listening, who do follow the Lord and they want to have a more meaningful, you know, a more meaningful impact in life rather than say, well, I'm a real estate agent here. And then I try to do my Christian stuff there. Can you give me an example of just how this flows into your business? Is there anything that comes to mind? [00:32:05] I mean, I guess not hiding it kind of means a lot in this day and age. Not being afraid to say I love Jesus. You know, people do they get fearful of it. They want to they think it's going to hurt someone's. And. And then in building a business with integrity, honesty, like I do, I'm almost honest to a fault. I guess you know what I mean? And I'm I didn't say honest, but I should say for once. But very much. You won't have to guess my opinion. You won't have to guess what I'm thinking. I'm. Very, you know, blunt in that way. I don't know if that is a fault, but I feel like it's good. I mean, I feel like. People appreciate that. And they know where they stand, especially in transactions or something that's not, you know. And I think that it makes me a fairly good negotiator as far as as as deals and stuff like that. [00:33:15] And I feel like people people see my my. [00:33:23] That I'm ethical in that and that I tried to just do my best on every transaction. And and I feel like that should mean something. And I think that people do appreciate that. [00:33:37] So is there anything that stands out where you can look at a transaction for negotiation, for some interaction where? You did it differently than, you know, you would have done it if. You didn't have the relationship with the world. Does that make sense? Trying to contrast. [00:34:01] Yeah, I mean. I mean, that is that would be easy to do in every circumstance. You know, I mean, like. But it gave me an example. [00:34:11] Give me an example. Just just to kind of articulate what this means. [00:34:17] I mean, I feel like you could be so unethical and and real estate brokers are. I mean, in so many ways, I can't pinpoint an example, but I mean, you just lying. You know, I mean, sometimes it's easier to to say you have a multi offer situation or or that's way lower than that other offer or anything like that. I mean, just just being honest in every transaction and a you know, and not even stretching the truth makes your job harder. It really can. You know, so I mean, that's what I'm saying. Maybe I am want us to a fault, but I'm not going to say if there's a multi offer situation or. Oh, yeah, I have an offer on the table or something. If it's not, they are like ISIS, right? I will that my integrity means more to me than that transaction. So, you know, I've never done that. So I don't know what particular transaction, but I'm sure that I could have definitely made things easier on me had I had I fibbed a little bit. [00:35:30] So, you know, I get it. Hey, look, I want to I want to pursue two more questions with caution. [00:35:38] I want to go back, if I can, to the follow up. And then come back to your relationship with Christ. On the follow up. And what you do. So we were talking about your list. Keeping your list clean. And the thing that hit me. Because we do all, as you know, with a lot of folks who might have agents who come to us to help them market to their sphere of influence and past clients. And the one biggest challenge most of them have is they don't have a list or they have a list. It's not been updated because they've never really seen the value of it. And so you putting that effort and emphasis into your list is really great. Can you give any hints or suggestions of how to make that process easy? Did you know what have you found or what have things have you put in place so that it stays updated? [00:36:36] Yeah, I mean, they say if you're a new agent out to start number one, whether it be a notebook paper and write everything. And then I mean, obviously a computer system easier. I use top producer and then they've kind of, you know, 14 years later, you don't really want to shut it down and start over. But now I have a system where when it closes, you know, you just have them fill out a little thing and then ask you if you want to transfer. So if it's a buyer we're working with, that'll transfer to their address. And obviously, you know, it changes. But now then you can automate things and that kind of stuff. But I mean, even if you're new, just get their information. Don't be afraid to ask for their information. So we're working with them. [00:37:32] So. So you have a system. I love this, I think is what I'm looking for. You personally and you and your team, you'll have somewhere in your process where you are specifically asking them for their information so you can get it all in the database within that come Commonwealth. So it at closing his eyes when you're basically making sure you're getting all the information accurate or. [00:37:56] Yeah. And then we've created it with a survey, you know, so we're getting that testimonial or feedback and assistance. [00:38:04] She and I mean, if you worked with them on that and, you know, to bring to the closing table and just, you know, we try the best we can on that. And then we update our database based off of that. So. [00:38:21] And so, yeah, we did. [00:38:25] We do that at closing. [00:38:26] But I mean, any time you feel like some people say it's better to do it upfront, that you know what I mean? [00:38:35] Because they vent through the headache of a transaction and everything. So they like you sebastiano the first day. So in the end, though. But I mean, I feel like we keep pretty good rapport and have them good say good things at closing. So we do it then. [00:38:51] But wherever you felt more comfortable, it's just a matter of getting that information. And then. [00:39:01] And then what do you do mean when? What do you do with it once you have it? So now you built this database. You're getting it updated. Are you do anything special with. [00:39:11] Well, we have different like so depending on where the lead came from. Like I have a site called Upstate bank-owned Homes dot com. So when I did some of my best work when the economy crashed, because I started that site with with the cell site that led to mine and I was giving bank auction list, which I still get phone calls that are like, where's my where's my list this month? I mean, so. So they'll it depends on what you know. Because we have a computer system we can put on, that's where they buy our 2018 seller. 2018 where they did they come on for a bank-owned and they're just getting the auction list on a monthly basis or what. So it depends where where we categorize them, what they get. [00:40:10] So. And then you then follow up emails for past clients, all that kind of stuff. So we we can set up campaigns and do it. [00:40:21] Ballet. [00:40:22] So have you found one or two things among all the things you do to be most effective? You know, so you have the kind of the 80/20 rule, 20 percent of what you do generates 80 percent your business. [00:40:36] Have you found anything like that with with your follow up? [00:40:40] With any of this. [00:40:45] I mean, I still I think that phone calls would do the best, I mean, and and that is where my my fault comes in. [00:40:55] But, you know, I know my buyer's agents are are calling their their past clients on a regular basis, more regular basis than me. [00:41:07] And but that that's where you date the new new agents and that once, you know, you have to go back to the basics. And and. You know, pound the pavement, follow up and call those people. I think they're still especially in this technology age. There's nothing like a phone call. [00:41:33] So true very much. Let me. And then last question on just this line of questioning, and I want to talk one more thing and then we'll wrap up the call. They are off at the beginning to call your time out, follow up, follow up, follow up. [00:41:52] In terms of and I'm assuming these are you're talking about that when you have a buyer prospect or seller prospect, you're following up the whole time or are you talking about. Once you have this database in place that you're following up the whole time. Where do you put first your biggest emphasis on the follow up that you've experienced personally that you do? I don't think we know Phillip is so important. Where where do you find it? What? What part of your follow up is driving your business? And I wanted to see if you could share a little bit about what you do in that follow up. Or how you do it or, you know, just kind of peel back an onion a little bit more and share what you've found, be success. [00:42:43] I mean, where you're kind of basing your company on was founded through like 33 touchin Keller Williams and I mean that it it does. So they remember you. So I mean, just that the emails. And we tried to do even Facebook stuff and Instagram, like I have a social media calendar where it's like, you know, there's a day for everything now. So you just whatever. And then as far as Easter goes or something like that, and then you can do the same thing through holidays and kind of set up a campaign that you're just following up with past clients. And then we just have it set up on an automated. So they're getting on top of the Monday morning coffees. They're getting the Happy Easter, Happy New Year's, all that kind of stuff. So I guess the biggest thing is the more automated you can bring thing, then it just done. You know what I mean? Because it's hard to even in like the social media where we're doing to look at the calendar on a daily basis and get that post out there. It sounds so easy, but when you get busy. [00:44:01] So if you can just automate the posting then or automate the emails and that kind of stuff and people appreciate that just you know, so. But you should probably get on the phone and say happy birthday to you. [00:44:17] So that's the default is really almost so stay in touch with food as opposed to constantly following up on for specific transaction, just staying in touch. [00:44:30] So when a transaction is available, then yeah, I think the follow through once the transaction is where I would say the follow through. So you're not just like, oh, trying to get to the closing table. That's where kind of my loan officer background where I know what to ask for when and I have closing coordinator's now. [00:44:47] But I mean their eyes pounded the pavement. [00:44:52] I mean I many before I could afford admins and all of that. I mean I was up to 3:00 in the morning night. I have four children as well. Like I've I've you know, you've put them to bed and then you you work and then you wake up in the morning and put them to school and you work again. You know, my as you grow. But that I mean, I didn't just yet that 22 million I work. [00:45:17] So, I mean, it's not like you just jump into this and do 22 million in transactions. [00:45:25] So and definitely not for children and being a full time. [00:45:28] No, no. [00:45:31] So, yeah, I remember talking to my best friend many nights at 2:00 in the morning like he's a photographer and she would be editing and doing now all. And now, you know, we're like, when's the last time we've done that? Like, no, we're sleeping now. But before I mean, she would be editing photos and I would be putting in listings and then, you know, doing everything. [00:45:53] So, you know, it takes it it takes a village. [00:46:00] But, yeah, we we did pound our pavement, so. [00:46:03] Hey, let me ask you one final question before we wrap up. Fall back on your relationship with the Lord. Have there been any times we were talking before we saw the call about, you know, life is full of challenges? Is there anything more if you could share a challenge where, you know, just share your relationship with the Lord really helps you through it? And I don't know if that makes sense what I'm asking for, but just kind of a broad question. But, you know, I don't think so. [00:46:33] Yeah. [00:46:35] Yes. And. And I guess I don't know, I joke I joke about God wanting me to have so many anchors in heaven, but. I have lost a lot of significant people in my life, very close. [00:46:55] I lost my brother of cancer when I was eight and he was five in 1988. I've lost my fiance. He was building our house framing and he fell 20 feet and then passed away of a head injury and that I was engaged to be married. And he died two months before our wedding. I lost my baby in the womb at 26 weeks. I lost him and I've questioned God. You know, I mean, it's. [00:47:35] I don't think I would be living breathing without Jesus. I would be a total drug addict or something. I don't know how you get through stuff like that without Jesus, without the hope that, you know, I will see Diana again and I will see Mike again. And, you know, I. I asked. And I asked God in particular about my baby, because I don't understand. How we wanted to put a baby in my room if I was never going to have that joy, you know. And that was he wasn't going to be in this earth. And. He answered me that he he wouldn't have been a soul. He wouldn't have been a bean. He wouldn't be in in heaven if he hadn't put him. In my wounds, he was just meant for heaven. So I I live and breathe and stand going through some. Really, really hard stuff in life. And I'm, you know, I to wake up to live every day, I just don't understand how people do stuff like that without Christ. I just absolutely don't understand. So. You know, so. Tough stuff, but I'm. I feel like. [00:49:07] I won't I'm not for me, I I live, I'm excited. I love life. I, you know, I'm not in I'm not on on any anxiety meds and I'm not on any anti-depressants. I'm not on any of that. And the only way that I can have joy in life after such traumatic events is because of Christ. So I. Yeah. I just don't I don't understand how people do things like that without Christ. Am I? [00:49:39] So you ask me, I'm like, there's just no other way to do it. But with with the hope of salvation. Like, I just couldn't even imagine myself if I didn't have Christ in those. [00:49:51] In my life and in everything he's brought me through and I. [00:49:58] I had like. I guess. Dan, my my fiancee who passed away. [00:50:09] She's lost a lot. His mother and Carl, Dan's brother, passed away and a similar thing and we're thinking it's probably a heart condition of some sort now because even though Dan fell, he was like agile. He's 22 and he was really agile, really fit. And and his brother saw him fall and he fell like a ragdoll. And Carl, now he he she died in the tub. [00:50:40] And they really don't know what what happened. But. [00:50:47] When Coral died, it took me like God hit me because it was like almost a relief, because when you go through such traumatic things, you're worried about what's around the next corner and what what. You know what I mean, what you're scared of, what can happen and you're fearful. And God hit me, like because I was like my heart just went to Jan, which was Carl and Dan's mother. Like, how how could you do this again to her? And he told me, look, tell Joanna that you live, breathe. When I bring you to something, I will bring you through it. And. [00:51:36] You know, that that's that's great to. [00:51:42] You're making me cry, That's a wonderful Jesus to have me that I'm successful. [00:51:53] Yes. But to Britain, to have any kind of joy in life and jahns joyful to unus. I mean, you could probably interview her. She. He's a wonderful woman and she's a real estate broker as well, but man, it's just. That that's grace and that's a wonderful. A ussler where I can live and breathe and be excited about life. Then what is going to happen and not be fearful because. Because he created it all and he did it all and he created heaven and. And we'll see them all again. So, yeah, sorry. [00:52:37] I told you I could go. So love it. [00:52:43] My mind is perfect. [00:52:45] Love cast out fear. And you know, I remember doing a eulogy for a man I had just met a couple of months prior. And the thing that stood out is. You know. Your family's going to stream again. And when you have hope in Christ, then a lot easier to bear. [00:53:09] Yeah. And I mean, I'm not saying it's not me. I mean, it was easy. And I'm like, oh, I'm not one to grieve. I mean, this is horribly painful, you know, but it took even. Take your next step. Without Christ, that's impossible. Where is that where that where it says all things through Christ are are plausible. She's been. When you're in that moment, I don't see any other way that taking your next breath would be possible without Jesus Christ. So. [00:53:45] Well, I. I have always wondered, you know, this is much more my objective analysis. When someone goes through tough times and they don't have Christ, how in the world can they ever make it? Because just what you've experienced in which you share it, you can do all things with Christ. It's not it doesn't mean that the pain is no longer there, but you can make it through. And so that I'm glad you shared that, because I know that other people are going through some tough times and will. And just what an encouragement. [00:54:19] Your story is for them on that very thing else you'd like to share. I mean, this has been we've been all over the board. Anything that you have to share before you wrap up? [00:54:33] Anything more? No. I would just say be blessed. [00:54:39] It's. That's it. And then it all comes through Christ and. And I want it for everyone. So be blessed. Be blessed. [00:54:51] And if you don't know him, know him and and know that the blessings come. And if you if you do know him, I mean, just be encouraged and in your walk in this life, because I mean, maybe I say life isn't easy and maybe now they can understand why I say life isn't easy. [00:55:10] But I mean, yeah, I would just end with the blessed. [00:55:15] Hey, man. Definitely be blessed. Well, Joanna, this has been really a delight. Thank you. I know you're really busy, especially just coming back from travels and you've got a full load on you. So I really appreciate the time that you've taken out to. [00:55:32] Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:34] I thank you for the opportunity because it is. And it's coming as approaching 40 pretty quick here. And it is it is taking those moments and that and what you can put into people is comes more and more important in life. [00:55:53] So, yes, it does. And all of your love, your comment earlier on, you know, invest in people for eternity, double on your exact words. [00:56:01] But just. Well, thank you. [00:56:05] And for those listening, if you've enjoyed this podcast, be sure to subscribe to it. So you never miss another episode in place like our Get Cellar's calling you Facebook page. [00:56:15] Also, if you want to increase sales from past clients, a sphere of influence, dominate a geographic farm or convert home valuation leads. Check out our Agent Dominator program. We create custom content that differentiates you from other realtors, then use it to keep you top of mind with your prospects with postcards, targeted Facebook ads, email campaigns, video interviews and more. And the best part is we guarantee your sales or give all your money back. Learn more. Get sellers calling EW.com. That's like Agent Dominator in the menu. Thanks for listening to the Get Sellers calling you podcast. [00:56:49] Have a great day. 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This podcast frequently features experts at their own craft, but what if you aren't yet? Are you interested in becoming an expert yourself? Listen to Valerie Morris and Nate as they tackle four keys in building and expertise.   Welcome back. Of course we're talking about influence. And we've got Valerie Morris here with me. But a lot of times I talk about coaches, speakers, authors, mentors. They have expertise already and so I teach these people how they can use that to build an influence. That's so important. But how do we go that step before that? How do we build an expertise? That's what we're gonna be talking about. Okay, I'm excited to jump in this. But know you've got 4 keys of building and expertise. What would you say is that first key? -So, the first key is to go get the education. Now, sometimes that means going to a traditional education kind of setting where you're going and getting a degree, you're getting a certification. You're going through a formal program. And for some industries, this is really vital. For example, I've got a friend who has a whole program around passing the medical boards. And he is a certified doctor like he has all the education. He could go be in a practice day after day. Instead, he just runs this program. But if he did not have his degree he would not have the qualifications where other prospective doctors would want to trust him. So, sometimes the education is key. Sometimes the education might be an apprenticeship or going and getting some sort of informal class and there's so many online programs for different things. Especially if you're in an emerging industry. When I started doing social media marketing, it wasn't something you studied in college. There was no degree around social media. It wasn't even really a thing. So for me, I've had to use other certifications and programs that have been developed over time. So sometimes, your education is actually from your experience which kind of leads me to point number 2 which is experience can be a huge way that you become an expert. So, I'm curious though, how did you become an expert in YouTube and keywords? -Yeah. I got my education in human biology. -Okay. -So, I learned a lot of general things and then very because things in the medical world and I'm glad I'm not in that space. -A little different than YouTube. -Very different. So, mine has definitely been through trial and error through experimentation and and through just having experience. And I'm able to educate people now so specifically on YouTube because I've got a lot of experience and I've built up a big track record and I have that credibility from the track record. I don't have credibility from a degree or certification for YouTube. It's certainly that, I don't even know if those degrees exist today, a YouTube degree and people like that. But I have I have a track record that shows that when you do these, things you get these results and so now I can teach. -So, you know that actually sounds a lot like an experiment that you might have learned how to do when you got your degree. -Sure. -I found that the education you get regardless of what degree it is often has applications. If you switch completely to new path. -Okay, I can say an amen to that because my degree was all about science. -Yeah. -And I learned the scientific method like so clearly that I don't even know what the technical steps are for a write it out. But I think in the scientific method. -Yes. -If I'm doing something on YouTube and I see a result. And like, "Well, that's not statistically significant." You know, I'm just like... Yeah... -You're in the processes and the experimentation and what's working what's not. -I guess there is some value to my degree. -You know, I found value in my degree and it has nothing to do with social media. So, you know, I think when you take a look at what does education offer me that is beyond just the specific industry, there's so many different skill sets that you get from education. So not knocking education, but if you switch your path or you do something different, it's okay. So, education, experience and then I always encourage people to ask questions. This is exactly what we're doing here today is just asking questions from someone else who's an expert in something where we may not be that expert. And so, you know, I'm always asking you my YouTube questions because I don't live in YouTube all day every day like you do. You can provide me valuable information that I just can't get anywhere else. I can't find it in articles. It's only from other people who are experts. -Well and I gained my knowledge about different things about YouTube by having those same questions myself. And whether I'm going to YouTube or Google to ask it or asking other colleagues of mine that have tried things before. -Yeah. I like that. -Yeah. Now, step number 4 or the fourth key to success for becoming an expert, in my opinion, is simply to have the mindset of being endlessly curious. So, if you can develop this mindset of I want to learn as much as I can about a specific topic, the reality is you can find that information. With the internet today, with social media, with experts making YouTube videos on the topics. You can find out the answer to just about anything that you want by doing the research. And if you have that mindset and that attitude towards really being curious and wanting to find the answer, I guarantee you you will find the answer. And if you do enough research on something, odds are you're going to be seen as that expert. Now, I'll add in a bonus tip. And that's simply to talk about what you're interested in. Talk about what you're interested in because the more you share about a specific topic whether it's just something you found that's interesting or something you learned or sharing something you created that explains that topic, people are subconsciously going to learn that you are the go-to person on that topic. So, go ahead and just talk about it. That's how I got my first clients when I started my business. I was simply talking about social media and marketing and they subconsciously learned over time that Valerie is someone that they could go to to have help. -That really is the magic. Because you may not see yourself as an expert but you can answer other people's questions. -Yes. -And so if you just find what those questions are... I'm going to share another resource. There's a website it's a Q&A website called Quora. -Yes. -So, all you have to do is is create a little profile on Quora. It's free. And you can put in some things, "Well I know how to do this. I know how to fly-fish. Or have this other hobby. This my profession." Quora will send you questions that people are asking. Or you can search for different topics and see what questions people are asking. And all I have to do is just you write there on Quora or you can film a YouTube video to answer that question. And here's the interesting thing. People around the world that are asking that question, they now see you as an expert. -Yes. -They see you as an expert. Into your fourth key of being endlessly curious, it's also helpful to continue to be evolved and be and be flexible. So, it might be surprising to you that I admit that YouTube might not be the number one platform for me to recommend in the future. Right now YouTube is awesome. But I'm stepping into the podcast space and I'm really taking another look at LinkedIn. I used to be real heavy on LinkedIn years ago. Used to get all my clients there haven't really used it that actively for years. But I'm stepping back into LinkedIn. And I still love YouTube the best. But 10 years from now... -it should be different. -Yeah. So, it's important like is to be an expert. Imagine if something else replaces YouTube. But yet, "You know what? I'm the YouTube guy. That I'm going to stick with YouTube." -Well all industries tend to have continuing education. And often it's a more formal process. So, when you're in something that's like an emerging industry like YouTube, it's important to stay on what are the latest trends. See how you have almost your own continuing education program that you devote to and commit to so that you can stay on the latest. -So, now you have permission to be an expert. You are an expert to start answering people's questions. If you found value in this video, be sure to subscribe. What's all the way here so you must like it. And check out Valerie's book. All about influence. We'll find it on Amazon. I'll put a link to it below.   We're All Ears by Valerie Morris - https://amzn.to/31pnHFB

Welcome to this week's solo episode, #164. It was ten years this week that I left full-time employment at Virgin Atlantic Airways and decided to enter the world of entrepreneurship.  9/9/09 I like the symmetry. Since then I have started four different businesses. I've had my share of both success and failures. I've learnt that there is no 'secret formula', no 'secret sauce' to running a successful business. There is also no such thing as an 'overnight success'. This has been borne out throughout the two and a half years I've been hosting this podcast, backed up by countless entrepreneurs that I've interviewed. If you think you don't know what you're doing, then join the club. Everyone's winging it when they start. Tony Robbins defines F.E.A.R as "F**k Everything And Run". So many people quit when they're within touching distance of success. But most people quit way before then. When it comes to podcasting, most people quit after 6, 8 or 10 episodes when they haven't reached #1 yet. Likewise I always used to see new business owners write a weekly blog for 2 or 3 months and then quit. That's why I got ranked #1 for all the keywords I needed to be ranked for in my first business. because I kept going. I'm super-proud of this podcast reaching #164 episodes. Last week, we were even the #2 entrepreneurship podcast in Algeria behind Gary Vaynerchuk! How random is that! I know I've said this before, but there really has never been a better time to start a business. The speed of communication, the speed with which you can get things done because of the internet, mobile phones has never been quicker. But you've got to start. And it doesn't matter with what. Just do something. Take the next step. There's not a right or wrong. Just do one thing to move yourself and your business forward. And do the same the next day. And the next. Then you'll build momentum. You've just got to keep going. Don't quit when the going gets tough - and it will - just keep going. Over time, your network will grow, your resources will grow, your knowledge will grow. Which you can then leverage to make your business a success, and reach your goals, fulfil your dreams. It's only now, after ten years, that I feel like an unstoppable force. That I'm doing the right thing at the right time, and for the right reasons. I love podcasting, and I now love making podcasts for other people - helping them tell their stories through the power of a podcast. Next week see's the release of the first of many new podcast releases from me and my team, and I for one can't wait. So don't be discouraged when you haven't reached your goals yet. If it was easy - everybody would be an entrepreneur. You've got to be in it for the long haul. You've got to be patient, determined and able to persevere. Let's StartUp!

Edu Ribeiro shows you how to combine different traditional Brazilian rhythms, including the samba and baião.For full length drum lessons with Edu Ribeiro, check out https://www.openstudiojazz.com/brazilian-jazz-drumming========================================================Hi, I'm Edu Ribeiro and welcome to Two Minute Jazz. You know what those rhythms that I just played now have in common? Every rhythm was the same sub-division, in 16 notes, and often this rhythm has the same time signature: 2/4. And all of these rhythms were Brazilian rhythms. And that's something that people maybe don't know. That if they are different rhythms, you could combine these rhythms. You could play this rhythm in the same song, and with some parts you play samba and a different part you play a baião, or in the same part of the music you play both.And talking about the 16 notes, if you play samba, that is the most common Brazilian rhythm. You have the pandero, the tambourine doing chika chika, that I'm going to imitate with my right hand or on the hi-hat or on the cymbal.If you have to play a baião, you have the triangle that goes: ticka ticka ticka. That I'm going to try and imitate with my hi-hat too.If you're going to play a maracatu, the snare drum does the 16 note all the time.And even if in the rhythm there is no percussion instrument playing out the 16 note, the subdivision of the clave will be in 16 notes, as in the afoxê from Bahia.That is one thing that we're gonna practice together here, the combination of this rhythm.Happy practicing.========================================================Website: https://www.openstudiojazz.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/HeyOpenStudioInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudioTwitter: https://twitter.com/HeyOpenStudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Have you ever wonder what's it like to be the one that got left behind? Being the one who got kicked out of the band that he formed? The one who are out of the dream team he's been wanting to play with? The last person chosen, and only because they're out of options to fill up the requirements? Let me share my personal experience on these situations... That I'm currently facing... Be sure to share this podcast if it is something that you or someone you know can relate to... Leave a like if you're listening through Spotify so it'll be easier for me to get feature on the list.... You can reach me at this email: westlife2021@gmail.com Follow me on Twitter: @westlife2021 Instagram: @imaskingforforgiveness & @diary_of_a_psya Subscribe to my YouTube channel: E.M.P 2021 beep me up through WhatsApp: 01121515539 I'll try my best to reply, only if there's people who actually reach out to me...

In Yeshiva - a system of advanced learning in the orthodox Jewish world, there’s a saying: “Shiv'im Panim laTorah” - which means “there are 70 faces of Torah”, but implies that there are many equally valid ways of getting to a certain point. That idea resonates with IT practitioners, because there are many paths that led us into our career in tech. In this episode, Leon continues the conversation with guests Corey Adler, Rabbi Ben Greenberg, and returning guest Yechiel Kalmenson about how that made that literal pivot, from yeshiva into the world of IT, and what their experiences - both religious and technical taught them along the way. Listen or read the transcript below. Leon: 00:00 Hey everyone, it's Leon. Before we start this episode, I wanted to let you know about a book I wrote. It's called "The Four Questions Every Monitoring Engineer is Asked", and if you like this podcast, you're going to love this book. It combines 30 years of insight into the world of it with wisdom gleaned from Torah, Talmud, and Passover. You can read more about it including where you can get a digital or print copy over on https://adatosystems.com. Thanks! Doug: 00:22 Welcome to our podcast where we talk about the interesting, frustrating, and inspiring experiences we have as people with strongly held religious views working in corporate IT. We're not here to preach or teach you our religion. We're here to explore ways we make our career as IT professionals mesh - or at least not conflict - with our religious life. This is Technically Religious. Leon: 00:48 This is a continuation of the discussion I started last week with Yechiel Kalmenson, Ben Greenberg and Corey Adler on how they pivoted from a life of Orthodox Jewish studies into a career in it. Thank you for coming back to join our conversation. Leon: 01:03 Okay. So, I think a lot of people are asking themselves at this point, now that they have a better sense of what yeshiva was like and how very different it is from a secular education, how very different that kind of world is from sort of a normal working situation: How did you do it? How did you go from this really intensive... Yechiel, I think you said from 7:30 in the morning until 9 or 10 o'clock at night learning constantly, with a couple of bathroom breaks and a little bit of food and maybe a nap... go from that to learning to code or learning IT or whatever it was? How did you get through it? And in fact, Yechiel, since I mentioned it, why don't you go first? Yechiel: 01:42 So, I guess as I transitioned to programming through tech support, so I was doing that before. Though I knew I would have to move on at some point because tech support... There was, there was a limit to how much I could grow there and how far it can get. And actually, it's funny, before you asked, you asked like, you know, "what would your mother think?" She was actually the one who, it was her idea. She had someone in her office who went to a bootcamp, (actually a friend of mine) who went to bootcamp and later got a job as a programmer. And she was telling me, "No, why didn't you do that? You know, you're smart, you can do that." And I was like, "No, that's not for me." You know, in my head at least "no programmers were these genius hackers who had been born with a silver keyboard in their laps. And like, that wasn't me. And like, you know, I might be smart, I'm not that kind of smart. And I like, I just kept telling her, "No, that's not for me. I, you know, he could do it. I can't." And then I promptly went home and took my first coding class and been hooked ever since. Corey: 02:42 For the record, my keyboard was platinum, not silver. Yechiel: 02:46 Well, Ya know, we're talking about the layman... Lay folks. Leon: 02:50 right, well, he's Brooklyn, you're Chicago, you know, there's a whole economic strata. Yechiel: 02:55 Right. Anyway, so I took a few free coding classes online and got hooked and saw that this actually was something I could do and this was something I enjoyed. And once I realized that I was ready to commit to it for the long run, I enrolled in a bootcamp - FlatIron School. I don't know if you heard of it. I took it part time while I was still doing tech support. So back to our yeshiva days, I would work all day and then code all night, up too late. You know, until 2 to 3:00 AM like three or four nights a week. But it was a transformative experience. I met Ben at the same bootcamp. He went to the same boot camp as me. He's been bugging me ever since. And then half year later I got my first developer job. Leon: 03:38 So Ben? Ben: 03:39 So I decided to go to the Flat Iron school, as Yechiel did for the sole purpose and aim to continually bug him about my challenges in programming for the rest of my professional life. And I and to have someone to bother on Slack forever and ever and ever. But I also chose Flat Iron school in addition to Yechiel because I knew that I needed to retool and retrain and I knew I also didn't have a lot of time to do that. When you have already a family and responsibilities, you need to make a career transition quick. There's no time to go back for another four year program or two year program or even a one year program. And so the Flat Iron school at that point had a self paced program. I think it still does. I'm pretty sure it does. But it has a self paced program where you basically can do the program as fast as you can do it. And I tried to do it really fast. I left my job and I did it full time over the course of a summer - a summer plus a little more. Hours and hours and hours. And I actually think that spending four years in a yeshiva/college combined was a really great prep for that, because as Yechiel mentioned earlier, that days are very long. And balancing a dual curriculum of yeshiva studies in college meant that when I was in college, I was starting my day at around seven in the morning and ending at around 11 o'clock at night in studies all day between yeshiva curriculum and a yeshiva, (Beit midrash) study hall time. And combining that with traditional college classes. So the bootcamp - which is meant to be a very intense experience because it's full time and it's a lot of material - actually didn't feel that intense. It actually felt less. So it was actually a pretty relaxing experience, although intellectually stimulating and it definitely pushed me in my knowledge and learning. I didn't feel it didn't feel overwhelming because I had that experience from combining yeshiva and college at the same time, which is a very intense thing to do. And so, uh, within a few months of graduating from the boot camp I also found my first job, and it happened to be seated right next to Yechiel in the same company. Yechiel: 06:07 So I thought I'd gotten rid of him Ben: 06:08 ... on Long Island. Yeah. Cause everything eventually ends up back on Long Island. So we worked together for about a year, one cubicle apart from each other in a lovely place where it felt like you walked into the set of "The Office" every day. Leon: 06:29 So I've been in it for 30 years and, and it's amazing how many environments that show evokes for folks. It wasn't just there. Ben: 06:39 No, definitely not. Not this just in Scranton Pennsylvania. Leon: 06:42 Okay. Corey, it's your turn. Corey: 06:45 So I went to NYU as previously mentioned I got degrees in computer science and Jewish history. Afterwards I went to Case Western for only one year of Grad school, which is a story in and of itself, but it is something that my brother, who has a Ph.d and just recently got tenure at Northeastern Illinois University loves to beat me over the head with on occasion... Leon: 07:14 I was gonna say he doesn't rub that in your face at all? Every five minutes. Corey: 07:17 Oh he totally does . But I get to make fun of him because I make more money than he does. Leon: 07:22 Well, a Ph.d in history or in political science only takes one so far. Corey: 07:27 It does. That's really true. That's really true. So afterwards, then after Case Western, I went into the workforce and started worshiping at the altar of Stack Overflow. Leon: 07:39 And who doesn't do that? I want to point out that , recently I had the privilege of taking a few folks who were sort of in the adult version of yeshiva called kollel, which is for married guys. And they had been doing this for just a very little bit of money, but were learning scripture, Torah, all day long and realized - very much like you three did - that they needed to get a job. That their time of being able to do this was sort of coming to an end. And we also realized in the community that IT might be a wonderful transition point. And so I took them, in a period of about four months, from basically being at a point where the most technically advanced thing that they used was a flip phone. You know, not even a chocolate bar phone, but just one of the old dumb flip phones into programming, network engineering, sysadmin. And a lot of people said, "How could they do that? How could you take them so far, so fast?" And one of the things I want to emphasize for the folks who are listening is that the yeshiva program is not one that's structured to tell you the answers, (which we alluded to before). It's not about, "do you know the answer to this test?" "Okay, I pass the test . Moving on." It's, do you know how to think about the material? Do you know how to ask yourself - not just "what is the question and the answer", [but] "why is THAT the question? Why did they ask that question here? They could have asked any one of a dozen or two dozen or a million possible questions about this material. Why did they start there?" And when you start to look at information that way, why was that the question they asked? Why was that the answer they gave? Why didn't they give this other answer? When you start to think about that, your brain begins to process information in a very different way. And what that means is that you can categorize and digest information - especially IT information - much more efficiently than folks who might've come up through a more traditional learning program. And we'll talk about that in a little bit, but I just wanted to highlight that because it came out in each of your stories. So I'm curious on the flip side, what about this transition to IT do you think was harder for you three coming from yeshiva than it might have been for folks coming from a different route, from a more traditional American educational route. Yechiel, how about you go first? Yechiel: 10:11 I guess the main point is like Ben mentioned, it applies to any career change. I don't know if it applies specifically to someone coming from the yeshiva or from the rabbinate. The lack of formal education in the field, with me I didn't get a computer science degree. I didn't go to college for four years learning this stuff. And I know there are people in the field who believe that that is a hindrance. In my professional life, I didn't find that to be the case. I mean I appreciate the value of a computer science degree. I mean it teaches you the theory behind computing, the theory behind... and it is something that helps me in my life now. But to get started, it's like, when you're a carpenter, you don't have to know the theory of how the tools work, how, wood works. All you have to know is how to actually take a saw and a hammer and a nail and make things work. And that's something you can pick up. My first job as a web developer, that was literally just banging tools and nails together. And sometimes actually did feel that way. Like Ben can attest. And even though now I'm doing more backend-y, computer science heavy stuff, that's all stuff I was able to pick up later on. I was able to pick it up on the job as they say. Ben: 11:29 I often imagine, or conceive of our projects together in our first job together as we were building a sukkah out of code and a sukkah is... during one of the Jewish holidays in the calendar year, we're meant to go outside and build these temporary structures to dwell in for a week, and they're very fragile structures, that can easily yield themselves to the wind, to rain, to cold. And that's the intention behind them - is to reflect on the fragility of life. And so, often times, the code we're building in that first job felt very much like this sukkah of code. Um, the fragility of code. Yechiel: 12:14 And if I can extend that analogy, Leon: 12:17 Of course you can! We KNOW you can. Yechiel: 12:18 There's a popular meme that goes around every year around Sukkot time (which is the holiday when we build the Sukkah), of a photoshop-ed sign at a Home Depot saying "Dear Jewish customers: Unfortunately, we don't know what the thing that connects a thing to the thing is. You'll have to be more specific." And sometimes googling programming questions can feel like trying to figure out "what is the thing that connects the thing to the thing and does the thing, it makes the thing work? Ben: 12:46 It's an interesting question you asked. And I think for me the biggest differentiator there was: ultimately that the work I'm doing nowadays is not imbued with the same level of... sanctity? Uh, the same level of holiness, the same level of devotion and dedication that the work I did before was imbued with. And and I think in some ways it was both simultaneously challenging to come to terms with that, and come and reckon with that; but it also has made my life a lot easier. It both a challenging thing... I'm used to working in what I do 24 hours a day and having no differentiation between work and life, and yet getting used to having the differentiation between work in life. And having a time when I'm not working has actually been really pleasant. And discovering these things called "weekends" has been really nice. I didn't know what they were before and now I know what they are and they're... It almost feels like the episode of "Downton Abbey" when the matriarch of the family asks very naively and very innocently - but also from a great place of great privilege - "A 'week end'? What is a week end?" I asked that out of, not great privilege, but out of great stress. "What is a weekend?" And now I know what a weekend is and I never want to lose it ever again. Leon: 14:28 I just have to emphasize, again, for the it folks who listen to the show, that if you feel like you've been overwhelmed, just think of the hardworking rabbis who have... you know, we talk about 60 hour weeks in IT and "Oh my gosh, we have a Sev one call that went all night" and things like that... That if you wondered if there was something that was a notch higher, apparently the rabbinate is it. So just to let you know. Okay. So Corey, how about for you? Corey: 14:56 For me the most difficult thing was just trying to find the right balance between my work life and my religious life. So in keeping those two worlds kind of separate, but kind of mingled. But then also having to try to explain to people what that meant. So try to explain to my boss, "No, I'm sorry. I understand that there's a sprint launch coming up on Monday, but I can't make it because there's the holiday" Or in winter time, "Yeah. I'm sorry. I can't be at a four o'clock meeting on a Friday..." Leon: 15:33 ...because sundown is a half hour from now. Corey: 15:35 Yeah. The Sabbath is starting and I just can't make it or "Yes, I'm very appreciative that you bought lunch for everybody, but I can't actually eat this." And "Yes, I understand. And no, this didn't have to be blessed by a rabbi" Or "No, I can't make a 7:30am meeting in Pennsylvania because I've got to attend morning services." And also the idea that so many times - especially earlier on in my career - I would run into people who are doing 50 - 60 hour work weeks, and they're telling me all about working on the weekend and doing some Saturday work. And for me it's, "Well, okay, well how am I going to make myself look like I'm working as hard as they are, but I have one less day to put in the same hours that they are?" So it was really trying to maintain that balance between my work life, my professional life, and having my religious life. And where I was allowing the two to kind of coexist. Leon: 16:41 Interesting. Interesting. All right, so we started to hit on it, but I want to take the flip side of 'what was easier, coming from a yeshiva background'? What did you find about the transition to IT that was easier for you? Again, we talked about a few things, but is there anything else you wanted to add? Yechiel: 16:55 So I guess like you mentioned earlier, yeshiva thinking, for those who had a chance to look a little bit at the Talmud, yeshiva thinking, or yeshiva learning really trains you for thinking in abstract concepts. When you're programming, you're always trying to abstract things. You have a problem, a real physical world problem and you needed to abstract it into the idea what is the problem... what's the question behind the problem? What's the ultimate problem? And there are layers upon layers upon layers of abstractions. And I found that my time in FlatIron... I always, like I told you I'm a teacher at heart. I was always going back and helping students. And I found that this is something that a lot of people coming in from other fields struggled with that I struggled a lot less. Just idea that like when your screen says "x", it doesn't mean "x". It means the idea behind "x". It was something that came more naturally to me and that's yeshivas in general. Specifically. I learned in a Hasidic yeshiva, which puts a stronger emphasis on philosophical and Jewish philosophy. So they were constantly abstracting stuff. Going layers and layers deeper into the ideas. So that's one idea which you touched upon. Another idea actually, which I found interesting, which is not universal to tech, but and my company, Pivotal, we're very strong on the idea of pair programming. Like literally that's all... Like all day, every day. Every bit of code is written by a pair. We don't, we don't work on our own. We rarely ever solo on our own. And that that's a challenge to a lot of pivots moving into Pivotal. But actually at yeshiva, that is how we do all of our learning. Most of our learning is not done through lectures or listening to rabbis teach. There is some of that, but most of the learning is actually done in a system called a chavrusa, which is two people sitting together and learning together, trying to figure out the passage of Talmud, trying to figure out the commentary together, and delving deeper and deeper. So the idea of back and forth, exchanging ideas, thinking out loud, breaking a problem down together with someone else is something that came naturally to me and which I actually enjoyed when I came to Pivotal. Corey: 19:10 Does that make yeshivas agile? Yechiel: 19:11 Yes we are. We have a sprints. We have... Leon: 19:14 Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, you're right! Yeshivas are the original agile organization. Ben: 19:22 So who are the product managers in the yeshiva? Corey: 19:26 The Mashgiach? Yechiel: 19:27 The Mashgiach is sort of the supervisor who lays out the road map, tells you which material you're responsible to cover over the next week or so. And then you break off. And then at the end there's a retro where the Rosh Yeshiva, the head of the yeshiva gives a lecture on the material. Leon: 19:44 I see a blog post - a very serious blog post on this Ben: 19:49 In the Torah && Tech newsletter. Leon: 19:50 This is awesome. Okay. So Ben, how about you? Speaker 4: 19:54 Everything Yechiel said resonated and I would say just to add a little bit to that, the ability to switch back and forth between the concept and the implementation of the concepts. Between finding in the details, in the practical details, finding the conceptualization and then in the conceptualization, being able to go into the practical details, back and forth I think is very much a part of the world of programming. And I did also see it as an area that was very hard for a lot of people to come to terms with. That "I'm looking at this line of code and I know this line of code is executing this following thing, but in the execution of this following thing, it's also demonstrating to me this programming concept. And I see the concept through its execution" - is actually just a natural part of learning in the yeshiva world. And it just makes a lot of sense, it made a lot of sense to me from the beginning. I think that's a wonderful thing to port over from yeshiva life into IT life. Leon: 21:13 That's beautiful. Corey. Corey: 21:16 For me, and I touched upon this earlier, which was the idea of having to go step by step through the thing. You can't just jump to the end. And I'm sure we're aware of some of the, the traditional introductions to the idea of logical coding, like the, the old "Peanut butter and Jelly Sandwich" example. Tell me how to make a peanut butter and Jelly Sandwich. Leon: 21:43 And if you're our friend Aaron Wolf, you actually have several loaves of bread and a few jars of peanut butter and a few other things. And you end up destroying a bunch of those as the students in the class attempt to try to tell you how to do that and do it wrong and realize the flaw in their execution instructions. Corey: 22:00 Yeah. And it ended up destroying some students along the way. Leon: 22:02 Well, right. But that's just all part of the fun. Corey: 22:05 That's true. You gotta take your fun where you can Leon: 22:08 Shout out to Aaron Wolf. Corey: 22:12 So going step by step. And thinking about things logically, having to think things through - if something doesn't work, trying to question what's going on. Those things really ended up helping a lot when I started out. Leon: 22:32 Nice Leon: 22:34 We know you can't listen to our podcasts all day. So out of respect for your time, we've broken this particular discussion up. Come back next week where we continue our conversations about "Pivoting Our Career On the Tip of a Torah Scroll." Josh: 22:46 Thanks for making time for us this week. To hear more of Technically Religious, visit our website, https://technicallyreligious.com, where you can find our other episodes, leave us ideas for future discussions, and connect to us on social media. Leon: 23:00 So there's these three rabbis that walk into a bar. Ben: 23:00 Uh, that's not how it goes. Yechiel: 23:00 I think you totally ruined that joke. Corey: 23:00 This is how that joke goes.  

Let's Talk about Men's Social Relationships... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry we have Dr. Jameson Mercier, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and Doctor of Marriage and Family Therapy. His areas of specialization include Marriage/Family Therapy and fatherhood and this week the Lunch and Learn Community is in for a treat as he comes on to discuss the importance of social relationships for men and what happens when the correct ones are not in place. As we wrap up the end of men's health month I thought it would be extremely important to touch on mental health in men. When we talk about men's health month quite often we focus on the big diseases such as prostate cancer, colon cancer, and addiction but I know that I have come across many men who have these poor social habits and how it affects all their relationships. I talked about this before but as a outpatient clinical specialist one of the top 2 reasons why men would come to see me for an appointment was either someone was dragging them to the office or erectile dysfunction complaints. A recent journal article noted: "Social connections can act as a buffer against the impact of stressful or negative life experiences on mental health, the onset of mental ill health, including depression and suicidal behavior and can increase the likelihood of those with mental health problems seeking professional help." Social relation is defined as the relationship between two individuals and I know that after listening to this episode you are going to come away with a much better understanding of why your male family member acts the way they act. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and share the episode with a friend or family member Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Dr. Pierre's Resources - These are some of the tools I use to become successful using social media Links/Resources: Mercier Wellness The Couples Counsel - Apple Podcast Creole Adventures Guest Appearance on The Couples Counsel Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community – https://www.drberrypierre.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter – http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod – use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drberrypierre.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod Download Episode 114 Transcript Episode 114 Transcript... Introduction Dr. Berry: And welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. I'm your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of drberrypierre.com, as well as the CEO of Pierre Medical Consulting, helping you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy. And this week we end Men's Health Month. Again, we’ve had some amazing guests this month. And I want to touch on a topic that I think gets brush over when we talk about men's health, right? And that's the mental aspect of it. And most importantly, we're gonna be talking about the importance of social relationships in men, right? And when they lack it, what's the problem and what happens when they have a good social relationship, right? And when I was thinking about the topic of hand and I was trying to figure out who should we bring on this episode only had a couple people in mind and I was very fortunate enough to get Dr. Jameson Mercier on podcast to really drive home the fact that if our mind isn't there, if we don't connect. And again this is a very tough topic for men to talk about because when it comes to our emotions when it comes to the mental health when it comes to getting ourselves together for other people, is that something we do willingly. And Dr. Mercier, as a clinical social worker who has a Doctorate in Marriage and Family Therapy and he deals with it on the mental health aspect. I've talked about it all the time wherein medicine, I sometimes have trouble getting my men to open up to me to tell me like, hey, I'm having these medical related problems. So you can only imagine the difficulty he may be experiencing and not maybe he actually does and experience when dealing with getting men to open up about their mental health wellness and wellbeing. So again, I wanted to kind of give a little quick little bio just so you can understand just how important this guy, Dr. Mercier is for not only discussion but just the topic of mental health in general. So Dr. Jameson Mercier is a licensed clinical social worker. Like I said, a doctor in Marriage and Family Therapy where he got his Ph.D. and family therapy from Nova southeastern university. He also earned a bachelor's and master's degree in social work from the University of South Florida and Barry University, is areas of specialization include marriage and family therapy as well as fatherhood. He is a qualified supervisor for the state of Florida for clinical social work, family therapy, and mental health counseling interns. Dr. Mercier provides counseling for families, couples as well as individuals. He consults with businesses, nonprofits, churches, and government organizations. He has been featured in various media outlets including Hot 105, The Miami Herald, The Discovery Channel, Bustle, and Huffington Post. He and his wife own a private practice called Mercier Wellness and Consulting. And ladies and gentlemen, most importantly, especially if you have a kind of been up to speed on everything, he and his wife actually have a podcast as well, which is called The Couple's Counsel. And me and my wife had actually had the opportunity to join onto the show and really talk about our relationships and how we deal with growing up with a child with autism. Right. So if you had not had a chance, I will link that episode, link in the show notes as well. Just like you can get a chance to obviously get in touch with their podcast. You listen to their podcast, subscribe to their podcast here. Me and my wife kind of discuss our journey parenting a child with autism. Of course the theme today is Men's Health Month and we're talking about mental health. We’re talking about social connections and relationships and I really wanted to hit this home because again, I've talked about the cancer's a lot, right? You know, earlier this month I talked about just making sure they go do their wellness exam. We had doctor Jen who actually hit home erectile dysfunction, sexual health. So again, we've talked about a lot of huge topics when we talk about men’s health and I figured there was no way I could end this month, a discussion on men's health without speaking on the mental health aspect of it. Right? So like always, if you have not had a chance, go ahead subscribe to the podcast and leave a five-star review. Again, I want you to follow Mercier. All of his information will be in the show notes as well. Get on their podcasts, subscribe to their podcast, five-star review their podcasts as well because it's actually amazing. And get ready for another amazing episode here on the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. Episode Dr. Berry: Alright Lunch and Learn community, you just heard another amazing introduction to Dr. Jameson. I've actually had the opportunity to not only meet in internet spirit out, you know, a lot of us get a chance to talk to, also met personally and been able to collaborate on different events here and there and definitely fortunate enough to get this gentleman. A personal actually well-respected on the podcast. Dr. Jameson Mercier, first of all, thank you for coming to the podcast and educating the Lunch and Learn community today. Dr. Jameson Mercier: It's my honor. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Berry: So you know, I gave your introduction, which again amazing. Again, it's been this running theme that a lot of our guests have our resume that I'm sometimes in awe of as myself. But for someone who, you know, they read it, they read your bio, what is something that they may not be able to know about you that isn't necessarily in our typical bio? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Funny, you should ask I guess a little known trivia or the little known fact I suppose because of the line of work that I'm in. So mental health counseling, I realize maybe a long time ago, but really a few years ago just how much I needed to be able to do something for myself to be able to disconnect and separate and recharge. And so I am, I want to call myself an avid outdoorsman, but living here in South Florida and the city, there's only so much outdoors. (You’re right.) But I enjoyed being outside. I enjoy camping. As a matter of fact, tomorrow we leave for a camping trip and then we leave for a road trip that involves another week of camping. It's going to be a four-week road trip. (Wow.) So I do that because if you do 8, 10, 12 hours sometime working with people, counseling, mental health medicine, as you well know, you need to be able to separate that and give your mind something to focus on other than people's problems and patients who may not be compliant. And so for me, the way I kind of maintain some of my own sanity and my own mental health, getting outside, whether that's fishing, whether that's just going out by the water or anything, really that's something I enjoy and I've started taking the kids, my wife, her dean will join me sometimes. We're documenting some of that. Just side notice, a little passion project. We have a new Instagram and YouTube channel that's called Creel Adventures. Dr. Berry: Okay. Alright. And the links will be in the show notes because I definitely wanna hear about this. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. And so all that is, is simply, you know, me disconnecting, being out in nature, doing some camping, fishing and just something just to recharge my mental, my emotional so I can come back and be just as good. Dr. Berry: I love it. And when you're doing these things right, you're like there are no cell phones, as disconnected as can be. Right? So it's not like you're going, but you're bringing all the technology with you? Dr. Jameson Mercier: No, no. As a matter of fact, when I go out and I go camping, I tried to get as primitive as possible. Right. You know, so I don't need no hookup for electricity. I don't need anything. (Oh, wow. Okay.) But when you bring your kids, and especially when you bring your wife who maybe lacks the creature comforts, (yes) there's some compromise that needs to happen there. But I could go without it. I don't need it. And you know, that stemmed from a couple of years, three or four years now did I did a show with the discovery channel where I was in the woods for two weeks. It was a survival show. So no, it was not naked and afraid. It was not naked and afraid. There was another show. But when you spend two weeks in the wilderness with a knife, some matchsticks and a canteen of water, you really begin to realize how little you need to survive. How little you need and how much, how good that does just to be disconnected and totally in nature. And so that really was a boost for me and I tried to get out there as often as I can. Dr. Berry: That’s amazing. Again, we'll definitely make sure where he got the links to that because I'm very interested as well. I'm not outdoorsman but you could probably convince me to go for a day or two, where you're going on for a week. So I'm definitely alright. (Do it man. Do it.) A question I ask, obviously when we talk about the disconnection, right? Your primary field is therapy. My wife's mental health therapy field as well. And it's definitely something that I know has made me a better physician because of it and because of the acknowledgment that I can only do so much. Without addressing the mental health aspect of a person. What drove you to that direction in the first place? What was it that made you say, you know what, this is something I could see myself doing? Dr. Jameson Mercier: So there's a couple of stories that come together to answer that for the sake of time, I'll give you the condensed version. When I was young, I was about eight or nine, my dad died and my mother was left to raise my brother and me and my sister. And at the time we did, you know, you have the church that supports you and they come and they kind of sit and pray with you. But we did not get any kind of counseling, traditional counseling, professional counseling. And in hindsight, we could have definitely benefited from even just a few sessions as a family, of grief counseling or of just some regular run of the mill counseling, whatever that might be. You know, just to kind of process what's going on. Because as I got older, I was angry. I was rebellious. Looking back, I was not as destructive as some would say, but I could see how some of my actions stemmed from the loss of my father. And so when I got into college and I was struggling. I was like, you know, let me just kind of figure this out. And when I realized that if I had gotten some counseling, things we've gotten did go different from me as it there's got to be more people who could benefit from what I didn't get. And so originally I wanted to do psychology, but I'll leave that to the guys who like to do the testing and assessments. I wanted to be in the homes with the families dealing with some of these issues. And social work is what I discovered with social work. And once I found social work, I hit the ground running and then I decided to specialize in marriage and family therapy because the issues that we are seeing in society, a lot of times really do stem from dysfunction within the home and within the family. (Let's talk about it. I love it.) What happens, they go unresolved. They go unaddressed and then they cycle and we talk about this, you know, there's that generational cycles. Some people will call it a generation occurs. It's simply a matter of not resolving what you know exists within your family and these patterns we just hand them down. One generation after another. And so I resolved myself to break that cycle within my family and to help other people who are willing to break these dysfunctional cycles and patterns within their relationships. Dr. Berry: What’s very interesting and especially the focus of marriage and family and understanding like where it starts and within. We talked this month, this is Men's Health Month. And when I was thinking about the topics that I wanted to kinda touch on, which is very typical, right? You know, the prostate cancer, colon, all of these things that happen to men and know men do not get in themselves together. I think a lot of times the mental health aspect is when that kind of gets brushed over, unfortunately. And more importantly, especially when we're talking about men and, and I know you, obviously you have kind of established a niche, right? Where you like talking to men. Like that's your thing, right? Which is always interesting. Because like I always figured we'd probably be the most difficult, the niche to deal with. We were terrible. Dr. Jameson Mercier: We are terrible. And I recognize that. I recognize just how bad men are when it comes to talking and communicating. Even with our wives sometimes, you know, the women in our lives, our kids, and it isn't that we don't want to. In my own experience has shown me that everything we want to say or should say is right there behind our teeth. It's on the back of the, on the inside of our lips. A lot of us, yes, we're not taught how to communicate like that. A lot of us didn't see it modeled for us. And so it isn't that we don't get the urge, we just can't bring our lips together to say those things we know are there, you know? So in my practice, when I get dad or a man or husband, whatever he is in life when I get them while they're in my office or on a virtual call, I hold on to that guy. I do not take it for granted because I understand all the things that had to happen (before you could get to it.) Oh man! (Wow. Okay.) You know, and it's interesting when it's almost like a friend, you know, it's almost like bro, I've been for you. And he's like yo, that unspoken conversation that happens and if there's a wife or girlfriend there, they don't understand. But I am just so glad to see men who show up to have those conversations. Dr. Berry: And what I love about, especially the motivation behind episode like this is when, and of course I'm doing my research. I'm looking up mental health and you know, all of the issues that men need to deal with. And I came across this a very interesting article. It was actually in the Journal of American Men's Health. And it hit me. Because it talks about social connections and really the lack thereof. It talks about men's health, it talks about the lack of proper support which led to a lot of the different issues I deal with on the medical side. Whether it's noncompliance, whether it be alcohol and substance abuse, where it on all of these things that I do from a medical side that this article really said like, hey, you know what, if they actually like established some good stuff, in the beginning, it wouldn't be a problem. But unfortunately, we don't. And then we ended up dealing with me, unfortunately. And so I want to talk about like, this was one of this first sentence kind of hit me right off the head. It said social connections can act as a buffer against the impact of stressful or negative life experiences on mental health. The onset of mental ill health, including depression and suicidal behavior and, can increase the likelihood of those mental health problems from being sought. And I didn't realize. Again, I may be naive because of course that's not my field. How important these social relationships and social connections are when it comes to men, that was something that kind of like took me abreast. Is that something that you find not just to be a common thing, but sometimes like it's in that issue where like wow, like yeah, they really have problems from the beginning just talking to people? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yes, men, we do. But let me give you an example that in my mind and in my opinion crystallizes that phrase that you just read. When you look at the military and you take these 20 men, 50 men, hundred men, whatever the case is, and you put them in a group, you put them through some very difficult stuff. This is even before they go to battle, but you put them through boot camp, you put them through whatever school they're going to together. They eat and sleep together. They do everything together. When they actually do, then go and see theater, they go to war. They have much better cohesion. They operate so much better. When you compare one guy who did not move with them and was dropped in after the fact. So the one guy, for example, was not part of this community. Okay, so there's something about being in a group that does buffer you, that does keep you safe. The guys who are suffering depression, the guys who are battling thoughts of suicide, they're not part of a group. They're not. It's very hard to remain sad and depressed when you are amongst a group. It's hard, one, the group on lets you, but even if you just kind of stay on the periphery on the fringes, there's something that happens there, you know, and they've studied this all along, especially in guys who are in the military. When you move together with a group, when you have that accountability and we don't need 50 guys, one or two good guys, good friends, it is a protective factor. Totally. This is why an AA, they do the group thing and they have the sponsor thing. This is why they are designed like that because that accountability from the groups, it's hard to recreate that. Dr. Berry: Does that kind of like lessen the burden? Does that kind of lesson, oh it totally causes they're gonna face the stressors? But like because you do it within a group setting it's not as much? Is that the thought process? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. It's not that you don't face it. It is that when you do face it, you have other people on which to share the load. It's funny, we go to school and we study all these things and I realize if I just watch women when it comes to this whole social contract thing. (Okay.) So much because women have this thing down the pack. If you're with five or six women at work or at a conference one we'll get up and they'll say, I'm going to the bathroom and then two or three will get up. I'm coming with you. As men, we don't do that. (No.) We don't do that. We don't even announce it. We just get up. I'll be back. If if we say that much, you know what I mean? And I had this conversation with a colleague of mine. I said, why do you guys announce that you're going to the restroom? And she looked at me, she says, I do? It's something they didn't even notice that. (So kind of like ingrained in them to say, like hey.) Something they do, anybody wants to come. And so go into the bathroom is not about going to the bathroom for them it's about, it's a social activity. Dr. Berry: Especially because the theory that adds there, right? Like that's either ingrained in them. Right? Versus from a like either genetic standpoint or just a social construct. They've grown up since they were little with these similar patterns. Do you find that's the case for men? Right. We're just ingrained to be individual. We're just ingrained to be alone and we almost have to be placed in army barracks type situation before we'll go out and join forces and hold hands. I wonder about that? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Well you know, when I think back and I observed kids, boys play like that. Boys and girls move and little cliques and groups and herds, but there comes a point where we make boys feel like that's not cool. You know, in elementary school boys will go to the bathroom together and boys will actually do like girls do and play in the bathroom. But somewhere along the line, they get this message that boys don't do that. And what we don't realize is, we begin to eat away at something that is very much beneficial. And so when they're young, we tell them they can't hang like that. When they're teenagers, you definitely don't do that for whatever homophobic reasons for whatever negative stereotypes. Men just don't do that until you find yourself in your mid-twenties and 30s and forties and now for you to say to a guy, hey, how are you doing? It's very awkward. (Let's talk about it.) It's awkward. It’s unfortunate, and I'll even take it further. I think there's something about black men in particular where this kind of seeing another man and just kind of approach, hey brother, how are you doing? Are you good? How are you feeling? Approaching another brother, another black man and saying, hey, how's your day going? Are you good? You know, the man, being a man, if we're to be a man, we can't be like that. Dr. Berry: And you know, I'm glad we kind of touched on this because of this kind of segues into my next concern. What is like the role of masculinity? Because I think we've kind of danced around what that it is, right? When they go from elementary school to middle school to high school too, you know, I think we danced around it, at least in my thought. Right? I've talked about it and sometimes I don't want to say sometimes I do blame masculinity in a lot of the different concerns, at least I see on the medical side. Versus them coming to see me for physicals for them even allow me to do certain physical exams that I need to do properly, like a dresser. What has been your experience on the relationship of masculinity and mental health and these social constructs when we talk about their social relationships in general? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. You know, if you're gonna be a man, if you're going to be masculine, you gotta be tough. You got to keep whatever issues you have inside. And so on your end, it's the medical stuff where at your legs been hurting, your back's been hurting, you walk in all crooked, hunched over, but you gotta be a man. You can't complain about that. On my side, yeah, you might be feeling sad. You might be depressed. You might be crying in your car. You might be sitting in your truck for an hour, just unable to pull it together. But you can't tell nobody that because men don't cry. Nobody wants to hear men complain. All kinds of just jacked up ideas. You know if you're going to be tough, if you're going to be a man, there are just some things that you don't do. Right? All the emotional stuff or the soft stuff, whatever the hell that is or those are, it's unfortunate. Dr. Berry: First of all, I think that’s 100% head on. Right? And for those who, Lunch and Learn community, usually when I talk about, when men come to my office to do the yearly physicals and I see their significant other or family member there, a lot of times they usually won't say nothing unless I ask the question like, oh is there anything else going on? And they'd be like, no. And I'm like, hey you better tell them about this. This is like, they're ready because they just assume like, like this person I'm sitting in there isn't going to tell you the full story. Dr. Jameson Mercier: They know. And so in my case, especially if I'm working with couples, I'll see them together a couple of sessions and then I separate them still. I see them on individual sessions and it's not until I get the guy by himself in my office, I get this whole narrative and I'm like, bro, we've been together for a couple of weeks. Why didn't you say this? And the reason why is because his wife or his girlfriend was there. And I'm like, whoa, how much are you not saying? Because you live with this person. Dr. Berry: Exactly. Interesting. Okay. Alright. Let's see. Let's see. Alright. I don't want to say I'm glad it happens on the mental health side, but I'm glad it's not just a medical. Dr. Jameson Mercier: No, no. We as men have a lot of problems, man. And I say that as lovingly and understandingly as possible. (Sure.) Because we just, I'll tell you a quick story. When I was in college, I was at 24, 25. I went to see my primary and I was working like crazy. I was studying, I had two and a half jobs still broke. So the stress was this way and heavy. And I came down with what I thought was a fever or a cold, and I went to see my doctor and they were like, ah, after a couple of tests they thought I had lymphoma. And so I'm like, I don't even know how to spell that. Like much less what that is. (Wow.) You know? And at the time my wife and I were dating, I go to the doctor and I come back, she goes, how was the doctor's appointment? How did it go? I'm like, eh, it was ok. Dr. Berry: Oh wow. Lunch and Learn community, I'm really laughing because you'd be surprised how often, like that conversation occurs and they'll be like, I just told my husband, he said, nothing went and his appointment was fine. I'm like, no. It wasn't like I told them this, this. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Man, listen. And so the week I went, my wife was supposed to travel for a little bit. My wife, my girlfriend at the time. And so I let her leave without telling her anything. And so I think the following day, however it played out, I had a biopsy scheduled and I'm living with a bunch of guys at this time and I said to the guys, hey, I'm might need a ride to the doctor. I didn't say hospital. (You didn't even tell them why?) And I'm living in a room in a house with four or five guys, including my brother. And so they dropped me off. I walk in, I have my biopsy. In a biopsy, they put you under and it down there like all day. And my wife was looking for me later that night. She was out of town, she couldn't find me. So finally she calls my brother and she's like, hey, I can't find Jameson, what's up? He's like, Oh yeah, I took him to a doctor's appointment. She's like, what doctor's appointment? And then he says doctor’s appointment at the hospital and my wife, she like, (hold on.) sharp tool, man. She goes, who the hell has a doctor's appointment at the hospital? And it's like nine o'clock at night and they're still there? Bro, and so I had to come clean and so, and again, I look back and I’m just like, that is so dumb. That is like so dumb. I'm not too hard on myself because I was in my twenties, but still, that is dumb. And I can excuse the young, my youth, the ignorance of my youth to some extent, but at 40 and 50 and 60, my God, there is absolutely no reason at all. Dr. Berry: And it still happens, for sure still happens. Which is wow, it's very interesting because you aren't telling a unique story bro. (I wish I was. I wish I was.) Okay. Alright, see. Like I said, I like this kindred spirit that we got going on here, right? Because like now I'm seeing how much on the mental health side, you guys clearly have the deal. We have just as much, if not more than we deal with on the medical side because you know, we were so personal. We think like, all right, maybe it's just us, right? Maybe they just don't want to take care. Clearly, even when they're on your end… Dr. Jameson Mercier: Always, universal man, it's universal. And the thing is I think, and maybe this is my bias, it's a little worse on my end because you can see a bad leg, you can see the physical manifestations. Me, I don't know anything. If you don't tell me. (Nope.) If you're not having an episode in my office, if no one saw you having an episode, if you don't come to my office smelling like alcohol, I don't know that you have a drinking problem. (Cool. Let's go.) I don't know that you're not sleeping because even if you're not sleeping, you get a quick nap in you look fine for an hour session. So, and we as men are like, we're just, forgive me, full of shit sometimes. We are manipulators and we've learned the art of covering up the pain. We mask it well. We hide it from strangers and unfortunately, I loved ones in our family. So whenever I get the chance, I sent texts and my friends or I see the campaigns that just say, hey, ask a friend, is he okay? Because there's guaranteed he's going through something and if he tells you he's okay. Call him a liar. (Yes.) Check your boy. Dr. Berry: Talk it. I love it and the reason why I love that because the article, right? I kind of started it all right? It broke down very typical relationships that men tend to have. Right? And then we've touched on, we've already actually touched on quite a few of them and they, they broken out to kind of four categories, right? They talked about the type of man who likes to like compartmentalize their relationship, right? So this is a person who treats his boys like boys, but treats his girl like this girls, right? So he is open. To be emotional to his girl, but not his boys. Right? Like, so in your situation, where you're in the house with not only your friends but a family and you're like, alright, this is the position I'm putting you in this box, but I'm going to tell my girl all this other stuff here. Hopefully, I'm going to tell her all of these, my emotional support. And I think what was interesting is that they found that even a person who has that type of relationship does it really consider themselves emotional. Right? So even when they're talking in the sense of like, I'm just talking to my girl, I'm living my girl, know how she feels. Oh, she just kinda tells me her stuff. They don't even consider themselves the emotional type, even on the, for the women's side, which I thought was extremely interesting. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Yeah. We can't even allow ourselves to consider that. Dr. Berry: Wow. And then there’s another type where we talk about a person who just has some difficulty and confining. Right? So this is a person who, they understand like, you know, I need to tell the person something that, let me just see where he's at. But because they have poor judgment, they don't realize like, oh, Berry not the type you tell that to in a way he's going to laugh at you and make fun of you and then they regress, right? (Yup, Yup, Yup.) And then they're like a closed shell and then it's even harder to get them to open up again. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Listen, I'll tell you another story, does that tell you another quick story. And some of my boys and I, we try to catch a football game every year, right? So whether we drive somewhere or fly somewhere, some years we get it in other years because of work, we can't. One year I was just, I was having some difficulties. My wife and I, we were like disagreeing on some stuff. We were disagreeing on some stuff and for whatever reason, I didn't feel like I could talk to her. I knew I could, but I don't know. We were just bumping heads. And this trip was coming up and I was so grateful for this trip (it's almost like an escape.) Oh, it gave me a way out for a few days and so I go to pick up my boy and then I think we were two or three in the car and we're driving and I'm sitting in the car and I said, man, they say, yo Jay, how are you doing? I'm like man, you know what man, is kind of messed up lately. That's what I said. And I can't tell you how much energy it took me to just kind of slide that just to say that. Right? But then I said that and then the guys in the car, they didn't say anything. (Silence. Just like as if you never even said anything.) They didn't say anything and in my mind I was like, look at these mofos right here, here I am screaming for help and blah blah blah. In hindsight, I was talking to one of them, this was maybe last year or two years ago, and I said, yo, you remember that trip? You remember that time? And he was like, kind of. I was like yo man, I was going through it and he goes, what? What do you mean? I said, yeah, and I said this. And he goes, what? That's all you said? We had a good laugh about it, man. But I'm just like, oh my goodness, it is insane the things that we go through. All I had to say was, guys, I'm struggling. If I had said, guys, I'm struggling, they would have rallied around me. (Right.) But I hid that or I pretended. Dr. Berry: I guess the better question is, would you have been able to get that type of insight where you would have realized that that was the code word you would have needed, right? Because it sounds like you said it, but not in the way they were willing to like, oh I can't, I'm not sure how to interpret this so I'm not going to go in that direction. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Well, here's the thing though. One, I mean these guys are not counselors. So, I've got to give them that much. And so I didn't necessarily communicate it in a way that they would've gotten it. I communicated it in a way that was as painless and easy for me to get it out. And sometimes the two just don't connect. Right? What's easy for me to say doesn't translate into someone understanding that I have some challenges going on. But we spent the whole weekend together, tailgating, drinking, eating and the whole time I'm worried about my relationship and my marriage and they didn't tell crap about that. Dr. Berry: Wow. It's funny. (It’s insane.) It’s insane, it really is because that really is how a lot of our relationships are formed. And whether we, the ones are actually forming that way. Right? Because again, like you know like your boy said, he's like, well why didn't you just say this? Like I would've been ready to help but you didn't say. Dr. Jameson Mercier: If nothing does, he would have been like yo dog, we got you. And you know what? That would have been all I needed at the time because again, I know they can't treat me. Yeah, I understand that. But I could have used a shoulder to lean on but I had to make the first move. Right? I had to be vulnerable in that sense. And that is something that we do not do well. Dr. Berry: Do you think we are capable of doing it well? Because I know we've talked about women because they've been ingrained in society. Has provided and allowed them that space. Do you think we're actually even capable of being that type of person who knows to reach out when they see that social media posts like, hey, reach out to my strong friend. Is that something that we can even do? Dr. Jameson Mercier: Without a doubt, man. We are capable. Because again, as men, as people, we have the capacity to do so much. We have the emotional capacity, we have the mental capacity, we are capable beings. The challenges, we are often not in a community, in a setting that creates a space for that. If you don't grow up observing that, if you don't grow up seeing your father, your cousin, your brother surrounded by men who put a hand on him, who hug him, who embrace each other, men who will cry together. Then you don't do that. You don't do that. You know, if you don't witness it, because it's a skill, right? We're talking about communication. We're talking about personal and interpersonal skills. It is a skill. The same way we can learn to communicate better with the women in our lives. We can definitely communicate better with the men and our friends and our buddies, guys who come to rely on in other capacities. This would just simply be just another form of support for us. We are totally, we are more than capable. Dr. Berry: Okay. Alright. So for the men who are able to grow their skill and practice this skill and be actually proficient in doing it, what has been your experience as far as how has it affected the other parts of the relationship, just in general? What has been your experience for that type of guy who's able to reach out and say, hey, I need help or reach out to them and honestly be the person who someone reaches out to? What has been your experience in those types of men especially from a positive standpoint in regards to their other experiences and health and wealth and everything else? Dr. Jameson Mercier: You know, it opens doors and windows you didn't know was there. Two things I said, you know, the two things that change your life - the books you read and the people you meet. And I've met some brothers who have totally changed my life. Whether it's business connections, whether it's learning about this new place I need to visit or whether it's about just have to find someone with a similar interest, you know? But guys who are able to say that, you know, listen, it sounds cheesy, you feel just a little bit freer. You feel free to move because you're less concerned about all that baggage and all that crap. You got to hide and you got to make sure nobody sees and at the same time you're hiding it, but you're trying to look like you just gliding on the water all the damn time. It allows for so much more to happen once you are able to just express that. Once you are able to say, hey guys, hey, I'm not doing so hot right now. Or if you don't hear from me over the weekend, just a quick phone call. You know, just those little things. It totally changes people's, I know for me being able to do that, and again, it's not always easy. But with the guys in my life who I am able to do that with, the quality of my relationship with these guys, my quality of life and that's not an exaggeration, has dramatically improved. Dr. Berry: I love it. So first of all, I really want to thank you for being able to really come up and kind of open up some of the eyes. And even if it's a right, just some of the mental locks that are there, especially for men. Obviously, it’s Men's Health Month. They’re going to get talked about prostate cancer and all those stuff to deal, right? But the fact that we're not allowing that to do blow over that mental health is important too. Right? A relationship is important. The fact that we're not allowing that to happen. I definitely want to thank you for coming onto the show and really driving home that fact. That I'm not, I don't think anyone else could have, especially because again, and I'm dating myself like as we speak, you're currently doing a Dadfident series, right? On Your podcast which I've been listening to, especially the one with Mr. Tracy Martin. (Yeah.) Another discussion. I mean the fact that you're able to kind of reach out and recognize and you're taking that mantle that it's difficult, right? I know it's difficult because it's difficult on the medical side, I love when, because I know the women are just easier, unfortunately. So I know when I got to do deal with men man, I got to put some work in it. But you're like headfirst. No, this is the group I want to go after. Dr. Jameson Mercier: That's my people's man. That's my people. You know when you recognize somebody going through something that you went through and you learned a few things, so you learn one thing, you got one thing in your pocket and you say, yo bro, just do this. Like, don't even think about it. Do just do this thing. And I'm sure you in in your field as well, you said, yo, just do this one thing and you'll be fine. You know, like I feel like that's what I'm here for. I say, bro, just try this and you'll be fine. All this stuff that you got going on that you're struggling with. Trust me, trust me. (Yes.) Do these two things and you'll be good. Dr. Berry: I love it. Before we let you go, I always want to really highlight the amazing guests that we have here and just really the amazing stuff that they do. So this I like to call is more of my promo type hour. I want you to tell Lunch and Learn community, obviously, you know, what do you get to offer, books, obviously you're everywhere, right? Like, again, if you listen to his bio, this guy's been everywhere. But you have anything you've got going on right now, whether it be courses, books, seminars, speaking engagement, what's going on in your world, obviously outside of this camping trip and that you've got to get off? Dr. Jameson Mercier: The easiest way to find out about us, I'll put this in upfront is mercierwellness.com and so that's the website, everything Mercier. And so by Mercier, I'm talking myself and my wife, Herdyne. We have a podcast where we talk couple stuff, whether that's communication, finances, parenting, we're wrapping up season one and prepping for season two. And so that's a lot of fun. It's a lot more fun than we thought it would be. Dr. Berry: Oh yes. And I can tell you Lunch and Learn community, me and my wife were on there. It was an amazing time. (Yes.) And I will make sure that link is in the show notes as well too. Amazing time. My wife and his wife know each other very well. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Of course, they do right? They’re women. They just know. And even if they didn't know each other, they would know each other because that's what women do. Dr. Berry: You know, so funny story especially that, I hate to cut you off. When your wife was actually reaching out to my wife, she even realizes like I was the husband. So she's like, oh can you get your husband, was like, oh, Mercier. She was like, who’s the husband? Berry Pierre. Oh, Berry Pierre! Like it was totally oblivious. Right? Everything was all about my wife at that time. Dr. Jameson Mercier: That's it. As I tell my wife, you're the connector here, you do it all. That's just how women are and we need women in our lives. So, Mercier Wellness. mercierwellness.com (That’s right.) The name of the podcast is The Couple's Council. That's what it's called. And that's everywhere on iTunes, that's everywhere. Once you're on iTunes, Stitcher, Google podcast, we’re there. We're getting ready to do, Herdyne and I were getting ready to do like a couple series, a couple’s couple series. One about intimacy because this is also another area when it comes to sex and intimacy. Couples are not communicating about that. Dr. Berry: Wow. And if you think you were going to communicate with anybody, it'd be your significant other. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Who you laying in bed with. Who you just living your life with day in and day out. And so recognizing this need where we were putting together a workshop about couples and intimacy. On the flip side, we're also gonna be releasing some new, starting up some new webinars, online webinars. People can log on and watch about different topics. So in addition to the podcast, we have those things that are dripping out and on the dad fit in front dead. You know, once I say this and I have to follow through with it and I almost don't want to go. Dr. Berry: Let’s go. He’s on record right now. Let's go. Dr. Jameson Mercier: I know, right? There’s a book that semi-done right? It’s called Dadfident: Black Fathers as Primary Caregivers. (Oh! I like that.) The idea that the black fathers don't do that. And that's a bald-faced lie, not all black and brown fathers are locked up or absent. So that's going to drop soon. And there's a couple of things that follow that. So we're busy around here and just trying to do some good work, man. Dr. Berry: I love it. And before you go, I always ask this question, how is what you're doing really helping to empower the men, especially obviously the dads and whatever they're at in life, really improve their mental health and wellbeing and social relationships and everything above. Dr. Jameson Mercier: We are empowered. Once you begin to see that it's possible, you know, seeing is believing. And as men, you know, listen, you could tell me what you want, but show me, show me if you can show me that it works, you might have a chance. And so not only do I preach this and I teach this, but I strive to be even a role model. I don't like that. But I understand why that word exists. You know, I started to be an example to say, hey, it's okay. You know, do this because I do it too. So I understand I'm not selling you something I don't know. And I recognize that seeing someone who looks like you, talks like you, eat with you, who lives your life, do these things that you've been told historically you cannot do. That's where the empowerment comes from. Dr. Berry: I love it. Again, Lunch and Learn community members, definitely an amazing way to end Men's Health Month. But understanding that Men's Health Month is just a mouth. Like we gotta be about our health 24/7, 12 months out the year, right? So again Dr. Mercier, thank you for really blessing Lunch and Learn community, in a podcast with just such amazing introspection to what you have to deal with and really what men have to deal with and how to get better. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Listen, this has been awesome for me as well. Listen, I could talk this all day. I appreciate the invitation and anytime you want to get out there, man, get out in the woods. You let me know. We'd been saying we gotta Hook Up, man. (Yes.) We’re in the same area. Dr. Berry: We were probably like less than half an hour away. We were really in the same county. (There's no reason why we can't make it happen Dr. B.) All right. You know what? This is what we plan it right on the wax here, right? So I will be camping out. I'm putting it out. I'm going to camp. I'm going to go out and camp. Dr. Jameson Mercier: There's gonna be footage of it too. (Yes.) That's fact once it's documented. Dr. Berry: Yeah. Alright. You have a great day. Thank you again. Dr. Jameson Mercier: Thank you. Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

That I'm able to share my musings and deep dive, what would it have been like for the tortured talents of the past? In this episode, I speculate in regards to Vincent van Gogh.

I sometimes question whether or not it's possible to keep going and pushing out fresh daily episodes from lessons from surfing. I want to share daily gifts with you from the ocean, but there's this nagging story that pops in my head from time to time telling me that it's not practical nor possible to keep getting lessons from surfing and sharing them because there's only so many to be discovered and shared. A voice telling me that there's not enough. That I'm not enough. That it's just not possible. Yet, here I am. Surfing Lesson 125. Screw that lie! I'm more than enough!

The Looming Darkness Pt. I In a candy coated world of fun a Looming Darkness approaches upon the land... Lyrics: My mind is all made up. Over worked in overdrive. Under paid and under debt, And yet we forgotten there is no restart button. As I sit here watching Taylor Role a joint i realize. That I'm writing down what I'm thinking, and that is; that inner monologues are stupid. Yesterday went by so fast and I cant believe that its today already. Do you remember the days when Christmas was the only time love shined the brightest, And now all you see is the time shift and slip away in your hands, Where diamonds are supposed to be. But no where to be found. But they are all in the past now. So I think ahead. Stay positive Stay golden pony boy. You are the only one that can do it all along. There is not much I can say that hasn't been said before anyway. You forgot to pay the cable bill... 2020 Creative Commons CC Attribution Noncommercial No Derivative Works (BY-NC-ND)

What are the biggest struggles people face and how does energy healing help? How do you stay joy-filled when you're stressed? Julie Jancius interviews Nancy Regan, Energy Healer, about the tools and techniques she's used to help her clients for 20 years. This episode contains every question you've wanted to ask an energy healer. We discuss the teachings of various spiritual teachers, motherhood and keeping your high vibe energy as a mom, meditation, having a daily spiritual practice, how to honor your true self and so much more!   Connect with Julie Website:  www.jancius.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/angelpodcast/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/angelpodcast/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLOL5Dgsssv7A4C7SLvyqWg?view_as=subscriber   Connect with Nancy www.chibabyinc.com   Show Notes *Show Notes by Sonix AI. [00:00:00] Hello beautiful souls before we begin I just want to share a few freebies with you first. If you subscribe on my Web site your name and contact info will be put in a jar that I pray on every morning. The Angels also have me pick a few people from that jar every week to text personalized Angel messages too that could be you. All you have to do is subscribe on my Web site. Also you can win a free session with me if you write a positive review of this podcast on iTunes after you post a glowing positive review on iTunes. Just e-mail me with your name contact info and review and you'll be entered into a monthly drawing to win a free session. For details on all of this visit my Web site www.jancius.com, that spelled J A N C I U S dot com.   [00:00:51] You're listening to angels and awakening where we believe daily life can be lived from a constant state of love joy peace bliss ease and grace Why are people always searching for a better way to live because there is one life doesn't have to be stress filled and anxiety ridden you can make lasting changes that lead to a life you love. My name's Julie Genesis I have the gift of connecting with angels and bringing through their healing positive messages to my clients every day. Join us on the angels and awakening podcast each week   [00:01:26] As we explore our big spiritual questions. Interview experts and bring through Angel messages. I am so excited you're here   [00:01:39] Hello friends welcome back. I'm so excited about our guests today. Today I'm interviewing my friend colleague and teacher Nancy Reagan. Nancy has been a licensed massage therapist for 20 years. She also specializes in energy based somatic therapies. She is an explorer and a traveler. She's a free spirited individual who encourages people to find their flow and life by allowing their present life to unfold. Nancy works out of Chicago. Glen Allen in Naperville Illinois and she kindly allows me to rent her Naperville office for sessions on the weekends and summer when my husband and daughter are home from school and that has been the hugest blessing for me Nancy because then I don't have to kick my family out of their house. Friends I have worked with hundreds and hundreds of people and I can honestly say that no one has energy like Nancy's. She is one of the most beautiful souls inside and out that I have ever met. Nancy and I met over a year ago in fall 2017 and we work with one another twice a month. I will go to see Nancy once a month for sessions. And Nancy comes to see me once a month for sessions and what I love about Nancy's work is that when she works on me our sessions always include a few different components.   [00:02:55] First we talk a little bit about my life and how things have changed since the last time I saw her and then Nancy will give me some feedback and advice. And then next I lay fully clothed on her massage table and Nancy uses a combination of massage and energy work to clear the energy from my body and I should say for those of you who don't understand what energy work is. It's when someone connects with God energy which is the highest vibration that is and brings through that energy to the person that they're working on for that person's highest good and highest health. Now you may be thinking, well why do two people who work with energy as a profession need energy healing treatments for themselves. Well think of it like this. Think of it like a massage therapist who likes getting massages too. You could massage yourself. And I definitely work to clear my own energy out daily but it also feels so relaxing and so rejuvenating to receive energy healing treatments as well. So when Nancy is working on me I can feel this high vibration flowing through her every time. Now when I say this I mean I feel this vibration so intensely it feels so real.   [00:04:08] It feels like I can reach out grab it and pick it up. That's how much I feel this high vibration flowing out of Nancy and after the massage and the energy work is complete. Nancy always brings through intuitive information that she receives while working on me. And Nancy always keeps it very positive. But she tells me you're focusing too much on this. You really need to be focusing on that. And she's always totally right. For example when I first met Nancy I was really focused on reiki Reiki reiki and Nancy. I'll never forget it. You said Julie I work with some big time people people who are mediums on TV and everything you tell me is spot on. You are as good as them. And you said you're prophetic and at the time I had to ask you a prophetic means because I didn't even know. But you told me that people want to connect with their angels more than anything. And it was really you who encouraged me to share my gift of connecting with angels most with my clients. That was probably some of the most validating human feedback that I received. And I just wanted to thank you for that so much because that right there just shifted everything so much for me.   [00:05:17] Julie you're too kind. Thank you so much. It's always interesting to hear how my work affects people.   [00:05:28] And it's even more interesting whenever someone says to me Oh well you said and I always am like cause I'm like oh what did I say. But because the fact of the matter is I never I never   [00:05:45] With a lot of stuff totally remember exactly what I've said to someone because truly it's coming from Spirit and not from my own ego space. So if it's accurate that's why because it's not from my you know human judgmental ego space.   [00:06:08] So that's kind of key.   [00:06:11] But yes exactly.   [00:06:13] I like to thank you for having me on and saying you know what a wonderful intro.   [00:06:22] I'm very honored and very glad you came into my life. It's been really helpful and healing so.   [00:06:30] Oh good. Isn't that amazing too. It was just kind of by coincidence we both on this Web site at the same time.   [00:06:37] I forget what that website is tumblr which Tumblr I found on tumblr.   [00:06:45] Yeah. And I was only on there for like a brief period of time and then we connected and the rest is history right.   [00:06:53] Totally intuited it. So nice.   [00:06:57] So Nancy why don't you tell the listeners more about you and the work that you do.   [00:07:01] Wow. I am a licensed massage therapist for about over 15 years now and I do a little bit of massage. But that's totally like not my focus at all anymore.   [00:07:18] That's work that's not deep enough for me so even though people think it's deep it's not. So I'm more interested in working with the energetic body more than the physical body starting out as a massage therapist. I found that I was picking up a lot of information about people and I also found that I was getting some strange physical manifestations that I'd never had before. So it was a long process but it kind of was a path to figuring out why this was happening. So I started doing studies in both energetic type of healing and intuitive studies. So studying with some. Really good psychics going up to infinity Foundation in Highland Park and taking a lot of their classes with Mel Dore who is an amazing teacher and intuitive in Chicagoland and just started working with that more and found that that's that whole path of feeling into people's energy and working with the energetic body was really more in alignment and felt more and flow with me with my work. So little by little I started studying a type of therapy called visionary cranial sacral.   [00:08:49] What is that.   [00:08:50] Yeah. That is some people have heard of cranial sacral work and there's kind of two different forms of it. The main probably the one people are more familiar with is a form of cranial psychotherapy by a pleasure which is a more clinical form of cranial sacral work. And they really focus a lot and it's more like the actual feeling into like the sutures of the head and like feeling into the movement and just they look at it more just from a clinical base it's no matter how you put it like cranial sacral is definitely kind of way out there type of work besides massage therapists there are plenty of chiropractors who have learned it and how. Who else. Dentists. And if a doctor's doing it he's probably a d o versus an M.D. so that is not the area I'm trained and I'm trained in the visionary so that's more about intuiting more what you're feeling and understanding the energetic piece which gives a ton of information about the person what they're experiencing what their flow is and what not.   [00:10:19] So that's what it is. I mean there's books written on cranial sacral it's actually very complex. So yes I'm trained in cranial psychotherapy and sometimes that's a lot of it. It's an easier way for me to explain to people what I do. But I would say I take a big piece of it. My work from cranial sacral therapy because I do focus on both the sacrum and the the cranium the head.   [00:10:49] But I would say my work is kind of evolved into my own thing because what I do is I study with a lot of different teachers and masters and then I kind of take what they teach me and some of it works for me. A lot of times a lot of it doesn't work for me which is OK. And I just kind of have developed my own type of work with people so. So yes I'm basically I am a licensed therapist massage therapist but I kind of resonate more with. Like it an energy healing practitioner.   [00:11:34] Yeah. Perfect. Well and you know I know the difference but poor people listening out there. I always like to hear what you have to say. What what do you think are the differences the benefits that people receive when they're getting like a strict massage only verses when they walk away from an energy healing treatment or what would you call it.   [00:11:57] What would I call it well Mossad is wonderful. No one. But that is very much focused on our muscular body which of course is important an energy healing work is more focused on the energetic body which is actually deeper work.   [00:12:21] So the energy of your of your body your soul self whatever it is, is something that we are surrounded by and are deeply affected by. But a lot of people aren't very aware of their energetic body and this is how a lot of times we get. I like to say zapped by other people or places situations. It's kind of again like it is a tangible concept but for a lot of people it's not but energy is just in everything especially us.   [00:13:10] And if we can learn to work with it and feel into it both ours and other people and situations even objects it'll go a long way to help us. So the whole point of energy healing session which I think this is a bigger piece of it than the massage piece is I want to help people learn to heal themselves. OK. It's like what you said in the beginning. It's hard you know you can massage yourself but it doesn't really feel as good. But with energy work if you consistently receive it you do learn to feel into your own energy and that of others and to work with it.   [00:13:59] And ultimately it helps you to learn like what areas or what people or what situations you're more in flow with the whole idea is to help you be going you know downstream instead of upstream and removing blocks. That's another part of the work is to get a lot of times pain and dysfunction whether it's physical pain or emotional pain which I believe are connected when you have that you have something stuck energetically in your body. So another piece of the work is trying to help people move that out and release it basically releasing what doesn't serve you.   [00:14:37] And that is the art of it all right. Because we don't go around as human beings saying oh I really feel like I've got this stuck in my throat shocker I really feel like I've got this stuck out in my Auric field but as you learn an energy healing modality and you come into it you know when I teach people Reiki the most fun part is the first day when I'm having people for the very first time feel into the different chakras feel into the crowd and feel into the third I feel and to the throat chakra and they look at me with this shocked stunned face because I've had people say they feel so different.   [00:15:22] How did I never know that you could go into these different areas of the body and they feel so different but they do well yeah I mean one thing with our society in particular is we're very focused on everything outside of ourselves to make us feel better or fix us. And the whole point of energy work is to go inside and work with that energy which is really quite a bit more powerful than anything outside of ourselves because you have everything you need and you know what's best for yourself more than anybody else. And if you can tap into that to that inner wisdom and guidance it's a very powerful thing.   [00:16:07] Yeah. You know that's why we're friends Nancy because everything you say I'm like yes yes yes yes. Out of all the teachers that I met I think I align most with your ideals your philosophy your way of working. It's the tribe well and like you said before because I really feel like this is how I've built my practice is I have worked with a lot of different spiritual teachers along the way. And you're right. So many of them you get to a point like now not so much just like then just doesn't work. But there are other parts that they taught me which I do like which I do incorporate but with you there's just so much that's just dead on with the way that I see it as well.   [00:16:56] I'm glad. Well again that's probably an energetic process to be honest with you because if you listen to the energy this is a thing when you really learn how to work with your energy. You learn as you go through life that some people just you're not going to really flow with an you know it's not really it's never really a smart thing or it's going to be a waste of your time to try and get somebody to be something that they're not. Right. Right now they are who they are. So you'll start pulling in more people who are. More aligned with who you are if you're more in tune with energetically who you are. Yeah. Yeah but definitely the ones who aren't like you have a lot to teach you.   [00:17:46] That's better. That's a fact. That's true. And nobody knows where everybody you know right.   [00:17:51] That's true because a lot of the teachers who work for me I learned I I learned what I didn't want and the way that I didn't want to do things which was important info.   [00:18:05] Yes.   [00:18:06] So on this podcast and in my work I relate the vibration that I feel that I try to live most of my day and I call it high vibration because I watch Spirit shows me as everything is energy. Well energy vibrates vibrates at different levels or different frequencies. And when I tell people is God is the highest energy vibration that is and what you're doing is connecting with that energy. And when I live in it it feels like you're living in a different dimension. It feels like heaven on earth. How do you describe that vibration or what do you believe this high vibration is wow.   [00:18:49] I agree I think the highest vibration is you know the divine god. I also think though it's love.   [00:18:58] So love being the highest vibration and emotions like I think fear being one of the lower vibrations but it's really about feeling into when you're in those type of emotional states. How do you feel you know what's going on in your body right. Right. Both physically mentally and emotionally it's all tied together.   [00:19:31] Right. So how do you live your life in that high vibration. How do you maintain it   [00:19:42] For sure.   [00:19:43] My best most important tool is a very solid meditation slash stillness practice. This is something that I do every day. This is how I start my day. Sometimes I will meditate. I don't know four or five times in a day. And it and you know it's I try to do it for at least 20 minutes in the morning. If I'm really rushed I can only do five. Fine. It's better than nothing. But what that stillness practice helps you to learn is that you're more than your thoughts and your thoughts are always the truth. So I'm a believer of a lot of suffering.   [00:20:37] One may experience is because you are having beliefs in thoughts and information that aren't even true. So with a stone this practice the idea is to get past that ego mind and more again into your your soul self or your heart space where that is. That is the truth the body does not lie. Your energetic body does not lie. And it helps you learn that all of your chaos and drama and we all have it does not define you at all.   [00:21:20] And it helps you to separate from that and not let it take you over so that's probably the main without a doubt the main tool that in prayer. You know I always say meditation is like listening to what God has to say to us. And prayer is asking   [00:21:51] Yeah. I would say the meditation practice probably was a game changer for me. Yeah.   [00:21:57] Completely. So I want to go a little bit deeper into this and some real life examples. And a lot of people who are listening right now like myself. We have young children and I challenge myself to hold that meditative high vibrational state as much as I can throughout my day. But one area where I lose that vibration easily is being a parent. And I just find that being a parent brings so much emotion out of me. I mean there's that aspect of joy and love but there's also that aspect of fear and stress and frustration and over the last six months my daughter's been going through this very whiny complaining phase we don't spank or we don't believe in that we. And we don't normally take things away because she's just always been a pretty well behaved kid but lately we've been giving her a choice you can either change your behavior or we're going to take away your iPad for an hour and that works but the out the behavior starts to come back like an hour later or the next day. In fact we were just at Great Wolf Lodge which is an indoor water park like slash hotel complained non-stop the entire first day. We we ended up getting to the point where we said you have one last chance. And if this behavior doesn't stop we're not going to stay a second night we're just going to go home. And the hardest thing was sticking to that because behavior didn't stop. So we packed up we went home early and then the waterworks came. Oh my goodness. That year. And since we've been going on about six months now with this I find that now I even have anxiety about going places with her because my ego and mind is getting in and saying it's not going to be fun. She's going to come plain going with her. You know it's just not fun anymore. So my question Nancy is this. You have three children. Your youngest is in high school. How did you hold this high vibration in your life when your kids were young   [00:24:10] Wow OK. First of all like parenting is one of the greatest challenges but probably the greatest experience of my life. So holding the vibe high is just realizing that at least personally speaking for me my kids have been my greatest teachers. So for the most part any areas where they've really challenged me if I'm really honest with myself I'm looking at their behavior and they're basically throwing my behavior back in my face I things I need to work on. So first just being aware of that. OK. Second I have found that again if you go back to the energy of it. One really important thing to remember is another thing that is energy is our thoughts.   [00:25:11] Right. It's. Yeah yeah. I'm. I'm a huge believer in change your thoughts change your life. OK. Absolutely. So your kids can definitely pick up on what you're thinking. So if you think they're going to act up and be a pain in the Guess what.   [00:25:32] They probably are so again this is all easier said than done. Because again we're human and we're really really powerfully most regulated by our ego space. So a lot of times the best thing to do is when your kid is really challenging you is to go into more of holding a space versus holding the space for them but not giving their you know obnoxious behavior much energy at it. So allow mimes. Kids are acting up because they want your attention. You know they or they just they can't get enough attention. That type of thing. You know all of us have to learn that we have to take care of ourselves. Right.   [00:26:28] You know there's there's going to never be a space in life for somebody who takes care of you nonstop. It's really up to you. So even you know supermom cannot take care of their kid you know especially attention wise 24/7.   [00:26:46] No we need to eat and sleep too and have downtime. So I think a good thing to do oftentimes is this flight   [00:26:54] Kind of hold their space but not like Don't fan the fire like energetically you have so break down for people like I know what you mean but for people who don't understand it tell them what you mean about hold the space.   [00:27:10] And that last piece that you just said like give example something holding the space and this is something that as an energy healer. This is a big piece of the work holding a space means that this person knows that you are there like you're there as a source of support but unconditional like you're just going to let them be and you're going to be there and and help them work through this but it's their stuff and we're not going to have judgment on it and we're going to try and keep them as safe as possible but we're just going to kind of hold their space and let them work through this themselves because ultimately again like you have the answers you know what's right.   [00:28:02] Right. So that's what holding a space is OK. It's very important to be unconditional though that's super important.   [00:28:11] So going back to my example of being at great well how much you know there's a lot of offer I love that place. I mean it's fantastic it's so much cool. You can get overstimulated very quickly because there's just so much to do especially for the young ones.   [00:28:28] So right only back to that example maybe sitting down with her because I feel like I was overstimulated as well maybe sitting down with her and taking a couple of deep breaths saying Ok out there's a lot to do here we're going to pick two which is new do you want to do and and go with that instead of just allowing it to be kind of this chaotic situation holding the space coming in and just taking that time out together collectively as a family probably could have helped it.   [00:29:13] Well yeah because that would be giving providing some like boundaries for her which boundaries are very important to. In regards to energy you know it's when we don't have enough boundaries that's when you know we're just letting too much whether it's a person or a situation get into our space and it's too much. Yeah. So yes she probably was overwhelmed. I mean those type of places for me are really hard to you know you won't see me at Lollapalooza.   [00:29:47] There are certain things if you're really energy sensitive that you have to answer in yourself and you can't be bombarded by that.   [00:29:54] Yes I want to go into a couple of things. You know as you're speaking that what the other side was showing me is I do sit down with her and we do kind of hold that space every once in a while. But what it could be doing longer and what they're saying to tell everybody here is that the other thing that holding the space means that I don't do is bringing silence into it. So I work with her every once in a while and we take a couple of deep breaths but I notice that when you have those periods of silence you really center your energy what they're showing me I need to teach her is taking those periods of silence isn't a punishment. I mean let's take away the iPad for a second. Let's put everything down for a second and let's just sit and be for a minute and let's all reconnect with our energy and then let's come up with a grand plan.   [00:30:52] And I think that probably would have worked better than anything while it shifts the process out of reactionary to action because again like a lot of times when we're upset and really in our minds space like will react we'll say things we don't mean or well you know some people even strike out and do something that they don't really want to do. So if you give yourself that pause   [00:31:22] And you can go more into a space of like OK stop. What's the best action here so that you're not fanning the fire. It's like in an argument. Think of it this way. We've all been in arguments. Of which I avoid this like the plague but it is you most likely in a big argument or a fight. If someone's attacking you if you attack them back they're probably going to that's probably going to take you back and it's back and forth.   [00:31:56] Ok how about like what happens if if somebody is yelling and screaming at you and you just pretty much like shut it down by holding the space but not giving them any like of their own similar energy back for them to use an attack more with.   [00:32:17] Right. It uses everything.   [00:32:19] It's a diffuser. Yeah. And if if they won't stop then you just leave. I mean I always say like silence or no answer is an answer. Yeah. You know it's a powerful one.   [00:32:34] So that is another way of working with difficult energy.   [00:32:41] So I want to mention one thing because I heard this a while back while we're on the topic of motherhood and I want to go into it it's a little bit negative and then we'll pass it will jump into all the positive stuff. But while we're on the subject of this you know I heard a male spiritual teacher laugh at women one day and I heard this man say any somebody that I really admire. He said I was on the phone with a female spiritual teacher once and her child was really loud in the background. And when I stepped away from the conversation I could hear the frustration in her voice when she was talking to our child.   [00:33:18] Now I know the big time for female spiritual teacher he was referring to and I know she's dedicated her entire life to this work. I know personally that she holds a strong high vibration. I know that she's helped millions of people but this male leader in the spiritual community just really cut her down and made it out to be like she really wasn't as enlightened as she says she was because of the way that she had handled that situation with their child. And I just want to talk about this for a moment because have you noticed how some people in the spiritual community put on this front of perfectionism themselves. It's almost like a holier than thou persona. And I just don't believe it's real. What the angels show me is that every person here on Earth from the Queen of England to celebrities and Hollywood and CEOs you know everyone has down times and it just frustrates me I guess when these spiritual teachers continue to put on this holier than thou personas because aren't they going through frustrations and problems in their own lives. That doesn't stop for anybody.   [00:34:27] That's right yeah. Yes.   [00:34:31] I've experienced this phenomena quite a bit myself and again it's an ego thing not any one. I'll tell you what anyone who starts telling or judging people on the Enlightenment factor that they're not enlightened.   [00:34:47] Guess what.   [00:34:50] They're not very enlightened themselves. That's the thing. Who are they to judge that that is your own personal deal. And one person's enlightenment is not going to be the same as somebody else's. It's the whole point is we are all very very different unique perfectly imperfect souls. And the idea is that we need to honor and respect the differences. That's it. I mean there's no one way that is going to work for every single person. Yeah. The closest thing is would be would be the concept of love. Right. That's right. But that's that's a very you know not an easy thing to to attain all the time you know. So when all that happens a lot.   [00:35:37] Yeah. There's a great book out there for anybody who is experiencing this as well and wants more answers to this. I believe it's called something like after the Enlightenment do the laundry or something to that effect. And it's it's so true. Do you get into this state of being. You have to integrate it into your daily life and what does that look like. So I thought that that was interesting.   [00:36:05] Well here's another thing with enlightenment to in my opinion some of the times I feel most enlightened is when I'm just in the muckety muck of my muck and I accept it and don't hate myself. OK. A lot of people think   [00:36:27] That I'm somebody that has no problems and I have and I have a very uncomplicated life and all of that because I do come off as quite chill and I am chill. But the fact of the matter is that's not true at all.   [00:36:46] And I've had a ton of really complex I'm a very complex person I've had a ton of complex situations in my life both in the past and now and those kind of conflicts though and difficult issues are though what keeps me humble and helps me to work with other people because realistically if you're truly enlightened you know that everyone's got their right.   [00:37:17] Yeah. That's it I'll make sure everybody has this. Everyone.   [00:37:22] You just have to use the whole point is to help. What are you learning from it. That's the whole point.   [00:37:28] So let's jump into a fun topic. All right. We both got dogs this year and unintentionally we both basically named them the same thing.   [00:37:38] You've got Lou and I've known Lulu.   [00:37:43] I have found I haven't.   [00:37:45] I want to pet in a long time but we got Sir Fluff kittens of Oxford our little boy shit zoo we got them three years ago and he shifted the energy in our entire house.   [00:38:00] Oh yes.   [00:38:01] Tell me about animals the energy that they hold and the benefit they bring to our well-being.   [00:38:08] Oh gosh. Well our family has basically always had at least one or two dogs and we went through a period where. Earlier this year   [00:38:22] A really special dog we had had Harry who had a lot of problems.   [00:38:28] He was really funny looking and he was to be quite honest with you kind of a gross stuff that a lot of problems but he was the nicest guy ever. So just that energy alone just showed light despite all his problems. He was the nice guy. So he he absolutely was never complaining always loving you know. So he had a difficult demise and it was just really messy. I'll leave it at that.   [00:39:02] And when he finally transitioned I was like I'm we're not getting a dog for a long time because just the messes we had to clean up and the emotion and you know he did not. We had to like put him down which is usually you do have to do that but you know we were just hoping he would die on his own. But no. So it was very difficult and I thought No we're not doing that again.   [00:39:31] Within I would say a couple days. Like the whole energy of our house just shifted. It just it was such a void in the house and it didn't feel right. So sure enough I think within the speech a lie either within a couple months we had moved show up in our life. So yeah and an animal definitely brings a powerful energy into your home because they are so loving and they do you know these dogs sometimes or not. We don't give them as much attention or. You know as they want or or but it doesn't matter. They still love you anyway. Right. So now they add a ton to your to your life and you're in your household energy without a doubt without a doubt. Yeah Lou has brought a tremendous amount of joy and and healing into our home. He's just he's just so loving and no matter what's happened during the day you can come home and he will absolutely come and sit with you or he always meditates with me it's so it just yeah they're very energy sensitive a lot of animals. So again though like you got to look at your energy and see what you're drawing into and what you need. So right. No because pets aren't for everybody. Nothing is for everybody but if you're real energy sensitive person it might be a great thing for you. That's a good tap.   [00:41:11] I like that. It's a next question.   [00:41:15] What are the most common struggles you see your clients facing besides the ones that we've already talked about and what's the advice or tips or tricks that you find most help them the foundation whether you know how whether you hate your job whether you have a difficult relationship with your partner or whatever. OK the bottom line is people don't totally know who they are and what goes along with that is not honoring their self capital S so the whole path to a big piece of the path to feeling more whole and happier is first figuring out who am I you know and then honoring that. And again a lot of that can happen in a space of stillness and getting out of. That mind and which is so influenced by outside forces. So pretty much people are looking outside of themselves you know like those that pair of shoes is gonna make me feel happier. Yeah. Two seconds. Well right. Or this eating that hamburger or you know all the stuff or being with this person or having this car or if I make X amount of money or all of that. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to lie and say it does give you some happiness but it's it's a surface type of thing.   [00:43:03] It doesn't Larry it's temporary or fully.   [00:43:05] Yeah right. The true happiness is found like within an if this is simple it's simple. It's honoring your true self and being ok with that and really knowing your true self.   [00:43:20] It sounds so simple but it's a very difficult thing to do because we have so many outside influence and distractions that set us off course. So that's like that is the foundation of everybody I talk to. There's not one person that can't relate to that advice.   [00:43:40] Yeah. And with Spirit showing me when you were talking about that when I see a lot with my clients says this is work. A lot of this is working with a spiritual teacher but when you leave you have to do the work on your own on yourself and nobody else can do that work for you in your day to day life. And what spirit was showing me is so much about finding yourself and knowing who you are is about then following and staying in alignment with who you are. So if that jobs not serving you if that person's not serving you following that because there's so much fear or so much of our self identity wrapped up in these things that we're afraid to actually follow the path of who we are. By releasing these things right exactly right.   [00:44:38] Yeah. Mm hmm. And a lot of our beliefs and fast beliefs about ourselves and what not have been conditioned into us is really small. Small Young people. So again it's not an easy process to really figure out who you truly are.   [00:44:56] But it's a worthwhile process.   [00:45:01] So what is like the step by step one two three process of what you do when you start to feel anxiety or sadness rise up in your body.   [00:45:15] Ok.   [00:45:17] The first thing I do is just lean into it. I accept it and I don't try to push it away because I'm a great believer in going if you try and go around something it's going to take a lot longer to really resolve it and process it and just going right into it. OK. So I. I accept. OK. I don't feel very happy right yet. That's it. OK. Second thing I would do is I would probably just take some time out for me and I would probably just depending on what's going on that day if I have the time to sit down in and just be still for a while that's great.   [00:46:11] If I'm in the middle of a workday it may be a situation where I just have to take a breath and maybe pull up something positive to read or something that makes me happy or picture whatever and just remind myself that the situation does not define me. Another tool I use quite a bit which is super helpful for me is journaling.   [00:46:36] I will. I will write a lot of it out. And here's a thing though. Try to write from your heart space your soul space not your headspace. Don't really think about what you're writing. Just start right then don't think about.   [00:46:50] I find. Yeah exactly. I tell my clients the same thing I tell them to get into a meditative state first so that either really coming from their souls to voice their intuition instead of dread right they keep breathing and breathe. Yes. Breath work. Love it. Yep. So here's another question. You've worked with these big time celebrity mediums some who've been on TV and people the biggest skepticism that I hear from people is. Well they told me something I went to see this person and they told me something and it didn't come true. What do you say to those people.   [00:47:32] Well OK here's here's the thing and Intuit is and I I feel I totally relate to being an intuitive. First of all. You know you've had a great like intuitive reading.   [00:47:54] If you walk away from that session and you think or feel. That's what I thought that's what I thought. OK. So again it's a lot about you already know the answers. It's just like getting through. Like your your ego space of fear and mindset and whatnot.   [00:48:17] But OK no with intuitive.   [00:48:23] First of all nobody can tell you like. The hardest thing with intuiting for people is the timing piece because there's so many things that can change and so many variables and aspects going on in a person's life that can shift the timing and you know linear timing too is just that's such a human contact spirit world you know all to them like 300 years in our IT TO THEM IS LIKE NOTHING.   [00:48:55] It's IT'S A those two concepts don't connect. So things can totally change. So especially with timing. So perhaps perhaps it never comes true. Or perhaps it comes true in a in a long time from now any. What a good intuitive is doing is basically reading the energy of the present situation. OK. So it's like saying this is how I feel it's going.   [00:49:27] Like they can kind of feel into you and the situation and feel like yeah. This feels correct and this is the direction it's going in. Or oh no that doesn't feel right or it feels like that's gonna be an uphill battle or that's pretty much what they're talking about. Yeah I mean I will say sometimes just really odd information well or random information will pop into your head and you know yo you'll give a person that information and yeah it could be true I mean I remember one time I ran into a client I saw a once in a grocery store and she was wanting.   [00:50:09] She came to a session cause she was upset that she was having a lot of problems getting pregnant you know and these are these are tricky issues to work with Reno because that's you know that's up to God.   [00:50:26] So but I don't know.   [00:50:29] Apparently I told her that I felt like that she was actually had had a little baby spirit around her and that she would be having a baby here or getting pregnant and the next I gave her a specific time and everything and I guess it was right and I was like oh my gosh I believe I said that to her even with this type of work like sometimes I will say stuff that really is not of my mindset or ego and that's the great mystery of it.   [00:51:01] Yeah that's true.   [00:51:03] There is a great mystery to how we get information you know. Right. You know we all have hunches on stuff that really you can't totally explain there's no tangible reason for it. There's absolutely. The more I do this work the more I know that I don't know more right.   [00:51:22] That's one thing I know for sure but when we're dealing with them. Exactly.   [00:51:30] Well remove both.   [00:51:32] Oh good. It is that's so hard though because I've had clients like that too. And you do get information from spirit when they want to know something. But we also live in such a legal society that it's scary sometimes from my perspective to actually give that information because for example I had somebody come to me. I think it was last spring and she said you know I'm.   [00:52:02] I think it was seven eight months pregnant. I've been told by three doctors three nurses to actually abort the baby because they believe something's wrong. They believe that there's gonna be major problems. And the this and this woman spiritual team came through and they said there's nothing wrong with the baby. They were showing me her grandfather holding the baby the baby was absolutely fine. And I think that was one of the the times my ego came in the most and said Yeah how do you tell people how do you tell somebody that it's gonna be OK. And the crazy thing is that she came back and she said the baby is completely fine. She had the baby and I the way that it occurred within the session I said you have free will. You really have to make this decision for yourself. But this is what I see. And she came back and she said the baby's completely fine. There's nothing wrong.   [00:53:06] That's what I would have done to like honestly. Again you you know the answers and you have to honor what you feel like there's no body that knows better than yourself but you have to get to that space and really honor it. So but the other type of stuff is very difficult.   [00:53:27] Yeah. So I know for me in my work that spirit has because my ego would come through so much in the beginning. Oh my God Julie you're going crazy. This can't be true. You gotta stop this. Don't tell people this and spirit basically had to knock me over the head time after time after time was just this intense validation because I have always said I just want to be a tool that God can work through. And they've constantly come back and said well this is how we're working through you wake up and how his spirit shown you that validation that what you're hearing the thoughts that are coming to you is not you it is them for me it's not really so much like I thought.   [00:54:21] It's like feeling. It's very subtle. I don't know because this is something I struggle with all the time. For me it's always easier to work with other people than myself.   [00:54:37] Although many things in my life that I've really had a strong feeling about have manifested even though I think a lot of people would have said you're crazy.   [00:54:49] So yeah that's a real hard one. It's an ongoing thing. I just have to really trust what I feel and make sure that my intentions are in China. Right. And just   [00:55:07] It's really subtle and it's it's just really knowing what I'm like trying to to help with with the person and what what serving their greatest good. But honestly what serves people the best is to help them figure it out themselves.   [00:55:31] And of course some kind of get that go away of them.   [00:55:35] I don't really like Yeah I don't really like to do the bulk of my sessions are in silence right. I do not want to give them a ton of my verbiage you know.   [00:55:47] Yeah. Because no matter what you can't get away from some of me is going to come in there. I mean you know again this is for human beings. But you know the whole idea is to help them learn to know what that feeling is and when it's right and when it's not right.   [00:56:05] Right. And when you say that that's kind of where our sessions differ a little bit because you tell me sometimes that I just don't shut up.   [00:56:18] I never thought I'd die. I don't like the are. Yeah.   [00:56:26] So let me ask you this too because I have a lot of clients who come in and when I get into their energy they have had a parent pass or somebody very close pass and they're worried about passing the same way. You know Dad passed of a heart attack. Worrying about passing from a heart attack two of these conditions being passed out. You know there's a lot of moms out there we worry about something happening to our kids. And well my question to you Nancy is have you ever had these deep seeded fears within yourself that don't come true.   [00:57:07] So not all of the fears that we have are gonna manifest a lot of our fears don't manifest especially if we don't focus.   [00:57:14] Yes. So though the work that I give them is overcoming those subconscious thoughts by seeing them self in the future by really living in the daydream of being in the future and what they didn't want to happen not having happened at all laying tools.   [00:57:34] Do you give people to stop manifesting that stuff in their own lives.   [00:57:43] The main thing would be to just live now.   [00:57:47] Like be present because that's really all we have.   [00:57:53] There's no guarantees of even an hour from now. OK so what I'm really about is just acknowledging that the fact of the matter is is that we really don't have much if any control over anything so it's more about managing what is happening in our lives right now.   [00:58:22] And another truth is that nothing stays the same. So everything's going to change.   [00:58:31] You're not united the same person even secularly an hour from now. So there's no being really focused on the future which many people are. That's one of my demons that I fight that creates so much anxiety right. Like just learn to be happy with like what you're happy with right now in this present moment if you can learn to do that then that is going to help you release a lot of fears and the same goes for the past you know. Some of our past is great and some of it's not so great. That's for everybody.   [00:59:14] Yes learn from it but enjoy now.   [00:59:18] That's the main thing that you know one of the things that we've been working on this year together is I've been having sciatic pain and plantar fasciitis that just popped up this summer. I know it's all connected from my hip to my foot. And I know that it's connected to some emotional junk that I'm carrying. I want to talk about how what we experience in our life. We hold in our bodies. How do you see that working. How do you get to the root of the issue and work it out of the body. I know you've had some great tips for me and I just want to share those with our listeners Wow. I mean that's more   [01:00:03] I am of the belief that whatever physically is going on with you there is some there is an emotional energetic base to it. OK. That's my belief Absolutely. A very Eastern type of philosophy. OK so you know pain can manifest in a lot of different ways. And the way I work with it is just I am more   [01:00:33] Work with the overall energetic body vs. I sometimes I will specifically like lay hands on a specific spot that might be hurting somebody.   [01:00:47] But I don't know if that's necessarily better than just doing my thing where I'm at the head and just like sending the energy on through you know it's all about getting the energy moving. I like to compare it to like compare like the ocean to a stagnant stinky pond. You know those are two completely different energy. Presence of energy.   [01:01:17] So that's great. Yeah. I love that one.   [01:01:20] Well you got to keep things moving movements super important in all forms whether it's energetic physical or mental. When we stop moving usually great things don't happen. So just try to keep people moving and as an energy practitioner it's just kind of tapping in and giving them a nudge so that they can heal themselves. I'm just the conduit.   [01:01:49] So one of the things that I've learned that's been I'm going to say a little bit shocking to me is I've never put emphasis in my entire life on flexibility and I know that's the premise of yoga but coming into this over the last four years I've realized that that tightness creates so much pent up energy within our body. It is a you know they have edge and the power of flexibility it's just you can't deny it. And I have I have conversations and I'll be out at parties or out at dinners and people be like oh I don't stretch you know I go work out but I don't stretch and they don't put there like me how I used to be zero emphasis on flexibility but it really helps work so much energy out of our bodies.   [01:02:55] It does but maybe not for everybody. Like there's different things you know. The key is you have to find out what works for you energetic. So like for me I finally embrace that. I hate working out and I hate the gym and you know what. When I finally embrace that guess what I've lost. You know like 28 pounds you know yeah I mean I need to move but my form of it is more either walking or. I love to do movement somatic movement things like that. I mean but obviously the main thing is that eating is right. So but again it's different for everybody everybody. So so just finding out what works.   [01:03:54] I have some rapid fire questions and I want you to give me your intuitive answer some are big big spiritual questions but I want to hear you're short quick. Just what you have to say about them. This one or two words. Oh no. Let's. Yeah. Like a sentence or paragraph couple of sentences or paragraph you know. OK. OK. So here we go. Some rapid fire questions. What is the point of life.   [01:04:26] Why do we come here when there's so much pain the point of life is to to learn to love one another and yourself.   [01:04:37] Perfect. What is the soul the soul is your energetic heart being   [01:04:48] Who you are what you are here to do. It's the core of love.   [01:04:56] I love that if you could only leave your kids with one piece of advice what would it be.   [01:05:03] Oh my gosh it would be be yourself and love yourself.   [01:05:07] Love it.   [01:05:10] Okay. This is just for me. But. Who do you know that I definitely need to interview on this podcast.   [01:05:18] Yeah Mel Doerre. Do you think he would do it.   [01:05:21] Yeah I some I mean go have a session with them. Yeah see if you are in alignment with him. Yeah he's a great guy.   [01:05:30] Well thank you so much Nancy for being on the show. Being on the podcast if anyone wants to get in touch with you. How do they find you.   [01:05:40] Well thank you Julie. It's this it's always fun to talk about this stuff and it makes me think. And then I have to not think so I have to speak from the heart. But if anyone wants to contact me you can find me at my website which is w w w Chee baby income. And that's she c h i baby b a b y dot com or my number is 6 3 0 8 9 0 3 6 1 3. That's on the website and I'm a better texture with response. You'll get a quicker response with a text because I can do that very quickly in between clients and whatnot.   [01:06:30] So perfect perfect.   [01:06:34] Well thanks again Nancy. I hope you have the best. 2013 I feel like it's gonna be a fantastic year and as we're taping this it's the beginning of January so I wish you the best of luck this year. And thank you so much for what a huge blessing you've been in my life or you as well. Julie here's   [01:07:07] My dear friends you don't know what an incredible huge huge huge blessing it is to this podcast when you write a glowing positive review for us. It truly helps us get the best experts on the show. I know this might sound a little complex but if you send me an email after you post a glowing positive review here I will put your name into a monthly drawing to win a free 30 minute Angel message session with me and it may just be broadcast on this show at a later date. Your name will be kept in the drawing every month until you win when you email me. Don't forget to include your name contact information and positive review. I hope you win   [01:07:51] Tune in for a new episode next week where Al share tools and guidance that can help you fall in love with your life and start living it from a place of peace bliss and ease.   [01:08:01] Thank you so much for listening to the angels and awakening podcast. Until next time knowing your heart just how deeply you're loved on the other side and open up your heart to all of the random unexpected blessings that your angels and your spirit team are trying to bring into your life right now.   [01:08:25] Disclaimer this podcast provides general information and discussion about energy healing spiritual topics and related subjects the conversations and other content provided in this podcast and in any linked materials are not intended and should not be construed as medical psychological and or professional advice. If the listener or any other person has a medical concern he or she should consult with an appropriately licensed physician or other health care professional. Never make any medical or health related decision based in whole or even in part on anything contained in the angels in awakening podcast or in any of our linked materials. 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That I'm a 37 year old female, I have a 5 year old and a Boyfriend who's 10 years younger than me and we have gone through addiction etc. Finally now after 2 years together, we are learning how to take care of ourselves without our parents help. The Struggle is real

NOTE: We don't share any graphic detials in this episode but this is not an episode to listen to around children. To support this podcast please pick up one of our marriage books at https://shop.marriageaftergod.com In this episode, I share my history with an addiction to pornography and how it affected Jennifer. Jennifer And I both discuss how it made her feel and how it affected every aspect of our marriage but ultimately how the Lord freed me from this sin. Our prayer is that by being open and vulnerable about this sensitive and taboo subject that a light would be shown and that many other men and women would find freedom and healing. READ: [Aaron] Hey we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God, [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna share our personal journey with pornography in our marriage. Welcome to the Marriage After God Podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith everyday. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life. Love. And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you all for joining us this week on our podcast and we just wanted to invite you to leave us a review. This is just one way to help us get the word out about the Marriage After God podcast and let's other people find us and we really appreciate it, it just encourages our hearts. We love 'em. [Jennifer] So if you could just scroll to the bottom of the podcast app and leave us a review. [Aaron] Yeah a star rating is the easiest way to do it. All you have to do is hit a star, but if you have extra time we'd love a text review as well. [Jennifer] Thank you guys. [Aaron] Hey we wanna thank you for joining us and we also want to invite you if you've been enjoying the podcast to consider supporting our podcast. And the way that you do that is go to shop.marriageaftergod.com and pick up one of our books that we've written. The ones we wanna talk about today is our 31 Prayers for My Husband and 31 Prayers for My Wife bundle. We call it our prayer challenge and we encourage couples to do it. Thousands of couples have already gone through the challenge and they've loved it. They go through it multiple times actually a year so go to shop.marriageaftergod.com, pick up a copy of our 31 Marriage Prayers Challenge and that would support our podcast, thank you. [Jennifer] Okay moving right along, we are gonna jump into our icebreaker question, which is which one of you said I love you first? [Aaron] That's an easy one. [Jennifer] Give them a second to guess. You guys guess. Jennifer. Who is me. I couldn't wait any longer. [Aaron] Did I actually say I love you back? [Jennifer] So what happened was we were, I don't know if we were on a date or just hanging out but I remember I was getting out of your car-- [Aaron] I'm up in front of your house by your red mailbox. [Jennifer] No, actually Aaron has a terrible memory. [Aaron]Oh, it's not right there? -We were-- Where was this at? [Jennifer] It's okay honey. I'm not mad. We were in the church parking lot. Oh, oh. I was getting out of your black Honda, and I was getting into my car. And I got out, and I stood up-- I remember now. [Jennifer] And then I leaned back in, and I said, "Oh, by the way, I love you." 'Cause I was waiting, waiting-- Did I skid away, and the door slammed shut, or? [Jennifer] No, that didn't happen. But you did let a very long pause happen before you said anything, and it made me feel super awkward, and I said, I might have even said, "Okay, I'm gonna go now," or something like that, and then you were like, "I'm just kidding." You start laughing and you're like, "I love you too." Almost as if I had already known, but you never said it. [Aaron] Well, you did already know. [Jennifer] Yeah, I did. But it was-- That's really funny I made you wait. It felt good to have said it, and I'm glad I said it. I don't remember-- Yeah and we say it a lot now. Yeah, I do love you. And I won't make you wait. I'll tell you all day every day. [Jennifer] All day every day? [Aaron]Yeah. Oh good. So Jennifer said I love you first, and then I made her wait a few seconds-- [Jennifer] Super awkward. Super long seconds. And then you laughed, and then you said I love you back. [Aaron] Yeah. All right. So why don't we do a quick quote from a book. Okay. And this book is your book. [Jennifer] Yeah, we chose one from The Unveiled Wife, so it's not a typical quote that we've kind of been sharing with you guys. It's a little bit more personal. Okay this is found in The Unveiled Wife on page 153, and it says, "We were devoted to making ourselves "known to God and known to each other. "I finally felt free from the bondage "that was holding me captive. "I could breathe deeply without fear "of someone finding out who I was "because I had chosen to make myself known." [Aaron] And this was a part of our story where we were divulging to each other our deep dark secrets. Where we were sharing our sins, things we were struggling with. Actually, divulged everything. Talked about everything in our hearts. That was a pretty pivotal moment in our marriage. And that goes into what we're gonna be talking about, that's why we picked the quote because we're gonna be talking about that season of our marriage, we're gonna be talking about a pretty large season actually, of my life, and it has to do with pornography. [Jennifer] Yeah, which I actually, well we both didn't wanna do this episode. [Aaron] We've been putting it off for months. [Jennifer] Because I don't know why, it's just, I think it's one of those topics that's hard to dive into and expose, but like that quote said, I chose to make myself known, in our marriage, you've chose to make yourself known, and I've, I believe that that created a safe place for trust to be built, and I think it's really important for husbands and wives to hear our story and to hear, just to hear how we've exposed our hearts to each other, and hopefully they could do that too. [Aaron] And not only have we exposed it to each other, but we've exposed it to others. We've exposed the things that we've gone through, our dark secrets to other believers and through our platforms, there are ministries of the world. And one of the things that I love about how we are, you use the word expose, I love that word. The Bible tells us to drag that which is in the darkness into the light because that which is in the light becomes light. And that was our sin. The more it was hidden, the easier it was to keep doin' it. And so we've been draggin' it out ever since and keeping it out in public, keeping it out in the light so that it doesn't live in us. So I wanna start off by reading a scripture. And it's in Ephesians five verse three. It says, "But sexual immorality and all impurity "or covetousness must not even be named among you, "as is proper among saints." Paul's telling the Ephesians, you're saints, you're saints of the most high, and sexual morality and impurity and covetousness, they should not even be named among you. Meaning not even a little bit. In other translations it says there shouldn't be a hint of sexual morality. That's insane. Because in our current culture, in our current world, in my own life experience, I had not just a hint of sexual morality in my life, I was drenched in sexual morality. And Ephesians five verse three is very clear and it's, this isn't the only scripture that talks about this, that there shouldn't even be a hint of it among Christians. [Jennifer] Which is so weird because I mean, through our online platforms, we've shared about the topic of pornography before, and people even Christians, have shared their acceptance of it. And I think we're living in a culture, in an age where it's widely accepted even if people aren't talking about it. [Aaron] Yeah, we're desensitized to the grotesqueness of our sin. [Jennifer] Which is another reason why we knew we had to do this episode. We need to be willing to talk about it. [Aaron] Yeah, pretty much every time we've ever posted about pornography and how it's wrong, and shouldn't even be in a marriage, and how, and not that we're coming from perfection, we're coming from, well actually no, we've experienced this, it's wrong, and the Bible says we shouldn't do it, and God hates it. Christians, people claiming to be Christians in our comments will say, "Well, you're wrong actually, it's fine as long as." And then fill in the blank. And I'm like blown away. But we shouldn't be surprised by that 'cause the world's being, the world's gonna be deceived. So our heart today is to expose our story, and I hope my, our prayer we just prayed before this is that you listening, if this is your story, would begin to walk in freedom today. So that it, that sexual morality and impurity and covetousness might not even be named in your marriage. That there would be no hint of it. And so let's start, we're gonna start with my experience, and there's a bunch of questions I'm gonna answer and, but before we go to some of the questions I'm gonna answer about my experience with pornography and where it came from and how I walked in it and my story behind that, I just wanna read a letter I wrote to pornography in 2014. And it's on my blog, and it says this. "Dear pornography, "We have known each other since I was a child "and I feel as though I can tell you things "that I can never tell anyone else. "You know all my secrets and all my fantasies, "and you have been by my side "in the good times and in the bad. "You spent time with me when I was lonely or bored, "and you comforted me when I was angry or hurt. "It feels like you have always been there for me, "but I need to get a few things off my chest. "You promised me that after I got married, "I wouldn't need you anymore. "You made me believe that what we had was just a fling. "I realize now that you never loved me. "I am finally seeing your endgame. "You have stolen a piece of me like a master thief. "You wanted everything from me, not just my eyes, "but also my mind, heart, soul and strength. "You have promised a world to me that doesn't exist. "You have threatened my marriage and my children. "You have hurt my friends and family, "you have destroyed the lives of girls, boys, men and women "all over the world and used me to help. "All the while assuring me that no one would get hurt. "Our relationship has been nothing but lies. "You are not, nor have you ever been my friend. "You are the reason I have lived "with so much shame and embarrassment. "You are the reason my wife has been so hurt. "You have warped my perception of women in the world. "I needed to write you this letter "to let you know that it's over. "I would tell you in person, "but that would give you too much satisfaction. "I have found a true friend, his name is Jesus." I wrote this letter a long time ago and posted it. It resonated with a ton of people. It got 4,000 shares. And it was just me verbalizing out loud the relationship I had with pornography, so that I made it real. I was like oh, I don't wanna pretend like, oh, I'm just struggling and this that, like I actually verbalized what it was that I, how I related to it. [Jennifer] It actually makes me really sad just hearing you read it out loud, 'cause it makes it even more so feel like such an intimate thing, such an intimate relationship that you had with this thing, and I just, I, makes me heartbroken over the many people who are doing it, who are addicted to it, who have this kind of relationship with it. [Aaron] And it's true it's a lie. And it, in reality, it destroys us, it leads to death, and it destroys the people that, were, are being consumed by it, in the images. And it, do we care about those people? Do we care about ourselves, do we care about our families? And we need to consider those things. So I'm gonna be getting into some information about kind of where it started with me, and if you have questions as we go, Jennifer, you can ask me. How old was I when I was exposed first to pornography? I actually don't know. I feel like maybe seven, eight years old. I can't, I don't have a very good memory of my younger years. But I do remember one of the first experiences I had with it was I was walking home from school and I found a, it was like a playing card on the ground with a nude woman on it, and I remember keeping it. And I remember that being my first experience with it. I don't remember how I got connected on the internet with it, I don't remember how I've seen it on TV, but I've been exposed to pornography for many, many, many years. And not just exposed to it, but I've exposed myself to it and craved it, and sought after it since a very young age. And it went with me, I literally thought when I was younger that all I need to do is get married and it would fix my lustful cravings. 'Cause it, what they did was they, being exposed so young and right at that, puberty, when I'm already gonna be naturally more hormonal, and more testosterone, and all those things that come with puberty, I, it was heightened, extremely from a young age. And it just continued on until even, into marriage. [Jennifer] I actually remember before we got married, we did talk about that aspect of feeling like, 'cause you admitted to me that you struggled, pornography, and I also wrote it off as like well doesn't every guy do that? That was my perspective of it. And we both believed that it would be like a non-issue when we got married, that it would just go away. [Aaron] Right, so while we were dating, you had no red flags about it. [Jennifer] I mean, I hated it then and it hurt me then, but I figured marriage would be the solution. [Aaron] Well what you said was that you thought, well, I guess every guy struggles with that, and we'll just, when we get married we'll walk together and we'll figure it out, and it'll be fixed. And I actually believed that too, but I was so entrenched in it that I couldn't imagine men not struggling with it, and I think there was two reasons I did that. One, pretty much everything I heard from other believers, and pastors, and mentors was like, well yeah, everyone struggles with that and there's that book, Every Man's Battle, like we, that's the thing we've heard about this, so I just believed literally every man struggled with it and it was normal. Yeah, it was wrong, and we shouldn't do it, and I felt shameful, and I should be better at it, but I wasn't actually ever told by anyone that I didn't have to do it, that I wasn't slave to it, that as a believer I could walk in freedom from it, and that it was gonna destroy me. I don't remember hearing that ever. I remember how it made me feel. [Jennifer] How did it make you feel? [Aaron] Well,it made me feel gross. I hated that I couldn't stop it, probably like any addict. Like why do I keep doing this? Why can't I stop? I feel like I have no control. But then at the same time, I wanted it, I enjoyed it, I loved it, I couldn't say that out loud. When I would talk about it, it was always like, "I hate this, I don't wanna do this anymore." But internally, I really did love it, even though I didn't recognize that back then. And I can't remember ever having a real conversation about sexual purity. I remember being told I shouldn't have sex before marriage, I remember being talked about it a little bit, but I don't remember purity discussion. I remember being caught a few times with pornography and having a short discussion of how it's not good and we shouldn't do that, but I couldn't, I don't remember having these serious discussions of this can't happen. It is going to destroy you. You need to stop. I don't remember that. And it maybe did happen, but I don't remember it being, it wasn't memorable for me. It wasn't something that changed my direction from anyone, my parents, from pastors-- Youth pastors, yeah. [Aaron] Friends. In reality, even when I would try and, ways I would try and deal with it was just abstinence. Like, well I'm just gonna try and go, oh, I went a month. And I didn't mess up, was my term. I would have accountability partners. That's what we all do. But all my accountability partners also struggled with pornography and weren't changing. So all we would do was come together and commiserate and say, "Well, God's good, grace of God." Those kinds of things, but no one ever changed, no one ever had authority in my life to say like, "Hey, I'm walking in purity, you should too." I didn't, I actually didn't know anyone. I've never met someone back then that walked in purity, that didn't struggle with pornography, which gave me a very small world view actually. 'Cause I thought, I literally thought everyone struggled with it. And I'm sure there's people listening right now thinking like, "Well doesn't everyone?" No, everyone doesn't struggle with it. Many do, but it's a lie from Satan to believe that it's just the thing that everyone's gonna struggle with. [Jennifer] Well if we believe that everybody struggles with it, it just makes it more normal and then, like it's just-- Yeah, why change? [Jennifer] It's another justification for it, yeah. [Aaron] I would confess to God all the time, and just remember that God loves me, and remind myself. I would read scripture that would make me actually feel more shameful because I'd be like, "Wait a minute, why don't, why doesn't my life "line up with what the Bible says?" Like shouldn't it? Shouldn't, when I read this, oh, that's what a believer is. I would have to in round about ways work around what the Bible says to be who I was, as a quote unquote, Christian. Which is wrong, 'cause we're supposed to align our lives with what the Bible says not with how we feel, and then try and make the Bible fit into that, which is what I had to do because it, my life didn't line up with it at all. [Jennifer] So then we got married, and it didn't stop. [Aaron] No, it actually, I feel like at times, it got worse. [Jennifer] Well just to catch people up on our story, the first four years of our marriage, actually it's kind of humorous now that I think about it with your addiction, our biggest struggle was-- Sex. Sex. And-- Yeah, I remember telling God like, "God, just give me a wife, "I just wanna be able to have sex with my wife, "and I'll stop doing this." And then,gettin' married, and it's literally-- [Jennifer] The hardest thing possible. [Aaron] The thing that we can't do. [Jennifer] So I experienced excruciating pain every time we tried, and so for four years, our marriage just got tougher and tougher as far as our relationship because of this issue. And because we weren't coming together and being, experiencing that part of our relationship, you dove even further into-- I-- Pornography. [Aaron] Definitely used it as a excuse and a justification. 'Cause I thought to myself, like well I can't even have the one person I should be able to have, so, I got this over here. And it was wrong, completely wrong. But looking back, God absolutely used our struggle with sex to show the depravity in my own heart, and yours-- I was gonna say both of us. About lust, pornography, and these things-- [Jennifer] I'm like a lot of that is sin. Sexual, yeah lots of things. But He's, He was definitely saying like, "I don't want any of this." And He was willing to discipline us, and I believe that's what it was. I believe that that season of our life was discipline because He's like, "You're My children." And He says, "I discipline those who I love, "and I love you." And I, He was done with us walking our own way, and walking in that sort of sin, and, now I can't say like, we walked free from it, and then boom, we were healed. It was much more complex than that. But looking back, I know that's what God was doing in us. [Jennifer] So are you saying that we struggled with sexual intimacy because you struggled with pornography? [Aaron] I believe so, I believe that God was disciplining us, He was disciplining me. I told Him, the one thing I wanted was a wife I can have sex with, and He's like, "That's not gonna fix it." And it, and He, and I should be able to walk in freedom with Him, regardless if my marriage is perfect. I, it's not a justification, having a broken marriage, having a broken sex life, having these things that I think give me permission to break His heart, and His laws, and walk opposite of how He's called me to walk, when my greatest relationship should be with Him, which is what I've always said I have, like no, everything is about God, and I love God. And He's like, "Well," as Jesus says, "if you love Me, you'll keep My commands. "If you love Me," In 1 John, He says, "Those who practice righteousness "are righteous." And I wasn't practicing righteousness, I was, I had no integrity. When I was alone, I knew what I was gonna do, and you knew too. [Jennifer] I didn't trust you. [Aaron] No, I didn't trust myself. [Jennifer] I'd just go back to that point though, I wanna talk about trust, but I wanna go back to you saying that our, let's call it a drought, 'cause that's what it was, it was a sexual drought, and our marriage was correlated with this addiction to pornography, 'cause as much as I see that, I also know that it was layered because He used that time for so many other things, to reveal a lot to us. And I don't want that, I don't want them listening just to go, oh, that's kinda strange, but a cool little revelation, there was a lot more that-- [Aaron] Well of course, like God is infinite, and He orchestrated a lot of things in our life, for many purposes, to put us on this journey with this ministry, to make us, our unity and our oneness stronger, to use us in the lives of others, like lots of things to teach us things. [Jennifer] To teach us things, yeah. [Aaron] But it tells us that the, in the Bible that that our Father in Heaven disciplines His children. And if He didn't discipline us, we'd be illegitimate children. But because we're His children, He disciplines us. I just wanted to highlight that to show that we, in going through those things, that what our heart should be is to recognize what God's doing and that He loves us, and that He cares for us. It's that quota, He loves us the way we are, but loves us too much to leave us there, and so He changes us. And He draws us to Himself, and He makes us more like His son, Jesus. [Jennifer] He definitely used that time to do that in our life. [Aaron] Yeah. What for you, Jennifer, 'cause I brought this into my marriage, and I didn't know if you struggled with anything at the time, early in the marriage, but what did my addiction to pornography, how did it make you feel? How did you deal with it? What were some of the highlights, or lowlights, I should say-- [Jennifer] Yeah, I'm like, there were no highlights. [Aaron] From our, from that's part of our story? [Jennifer] Knowing that you struggled with this was painful, and I felt betrayed, as your wife. And there was a lot of deep hurt, a lot of pain, but what's interesting is also wrapped up in a lot of insecurity, and I felt like it was pointed back at me, as if I wasn't good enough for you. And so on top of the pain of betrayal and mistrust, there was also this layer of, "I'm not good enough for you and it's my fault." [Aaron] Right, like you're causing me to like, well, if I was prettier, or if could give him this-- [Jennifer] Or if my-- Part of my body. Yeah, if my body actually worked-- Yeah. [Jennifer] And we were experiencing an awesome sex life, maybe he wouldn't, maybe marriage would have fixed it. So then I felt at fault for it, and that was really painful. And so anytime that you confessed to me, or that the truth was exposed, I felt just as at fault for it. [Aaron] Yeah, and I remember you would say those sorts of things and I would try and like comfort you, and be like, "No, no, no, not at all, not at all." But what's unfortunate is I was only comforting you back then and trying to help you back then for the sake of my own shame. Like I didn't like that I made you feel that way, I didn't like that you responded that way, but instead of changing, I just tried to help you cope with it. Which is wrong of me, I wasn't a very good spiritual leader back then. [Jennifer] Well we didn't know back then, where I feel like spiritually, we were so immature that we didn't know how to navigate this right. [Aaron] We didn't have much close fellowship back then. We've talked about that in past episodes. Which would have helped us see it sooner probably, if we had people closer to us, knowing us. Not just people but spiritually mature people. People who would challenge this area of our life. But again, we have to expose it and we have to tell people how we're struggling if we want that kind of correction. Yeah, and we kind of-- Which most people don't. [Aaron] Kept it to ourselves. [Jennifer] So I also remember anytime that you would say, "Hey we have to talk," my heart would drop, 'cause I'd be waiting for the bomb, the truth bomb of like, "I have to confess again." And I hated that feeling, and my heart also ached with anxiety every time I left you at home alone because I just knew. [Aaron] You knew it was gonna come when you got back, yeah. [Jennifer] And when I did come home, and you told me you messed up, like you said you would say, it just affirmed my distrust in you. [Aaron] Were you ever surprised? No. Yeah, 'cause you knew I was gonna, which is such an unfortunate thing to make my wife only know that about me. That I'm not a trustworthy person, that I have no integrity, and she's gonna feel small, and insignificant because of something I'm choosing to do. And I think the reason, no I don't think, the reason we are getting real with this stuff, is because these are the things that aren't said to us. And so we can easily minimize what we're doing. I minimized it a lot with you. I would just be like, "Well it was only for a little bit here, "I, it was, like, it was nothing, it was not a big deal." And like, all I ever tried to do when I was apologizing to you was minimize the shame and the guilt that I saw in your face. And I deeply regret that part of our marriage, and the things that I walked in, that I didn't believe the truth that I've seen and read in the Bible that I thought that was for other people, not myself. I believed I was still trapped by it, even though I was a believer. I believed that I was still trapped in my sin. I believed that it had power over me that it didn't actually have. And I let it into our marriage. And in the Bible it tells us to keep the marriage very pure, and I didn't. And so I thank God that He showed me these things and He was patient with me because half the time, you feel like, "Man I'm surprised God just didn't strike me down." 'Cause like He's sovereign, He's a good God, but He's a just God, and man I justly deserved not what I've been given. The patience, and the reconciliation, and a wife who remained with me when you probably had a good reason and a good right to leave me, for breaking our vows so many times. Because the next truth we wanna make everyone listening realize is that pornography's not just, like oh, this little sin that I did over here, and like it's not a big deal, it's not attached to anything. The Bible tells us clear that sexual sin is special. It does something different to us because it's against our own bodies, and especially in marriage when you and your wife are one. [Jennifer] I was gonna say, it's against your oneness. [Aaron] It's against your body. It's against my wife, and this is the truth bomb, pornography is adultery. It's adultery. I was a cheater on my wife. I broke her trust time and time again. I broke faithfulness with her, and that's the reality, and if anyone's, that's listening right now is walking in this and is telling themselves, "Well, it's only every once in awhile. "It's not that big of a deal. "I can stop anytime." Whatever we, words we use, we are committing adultery on our spouse, and we are not practicing righteousness, and we are not walking in light as He is in the light. And those are truths that we need to say out loud, and we need to recognize them for what they are. [Jennifer] I just wanna be honest, this episode has been so hard for me, and I just feel like I, there's things that I wanna share, and then I get this lump in my throat, and my eyes start watering. We've had to stop three times just to pause so I can breathe. But pornography hurts. Pornography kills, and it kills oneness, and unity in marriage, it kills trust, it kills love, it kills-- [Aaron] Faith. [Jennifer] Faith, and-- [Aaron] It severs our relationship with the Father. [Jennifer] Yeah, it severs our relationship between husband and wife. Like our relationship was crumbling because of this. And I just, I feel so emotional I think, even sitting here listening again to our story because I know we're not the only ones who have been hurt by the pain of pornography. There are so many husbands and wives, maybe them listening right now, have walked this, or experiencing it, or maybe just last night, they had that hard conversation where they're in tears over it because they want it gone so badly, and it just keeps coming, and keeps coming, and keeps coming and it's gonna keep coming-- Or if they're about to have the conversation-- The enemy-- Today. The enemy hates marriage. The enemy hates what we're doing, and it's going to keep coming because he knows that it will destroy what we have. [Aaron] And I wanna, your words are powerful, but I wanna remind us that our words are powerful. And you keep saying "Pornography, it's coming, it's coming," as if it's something coming at us, and this is one of the lies I believed, that pornography was something happening to me. And when something happens to us, it's out of our control. Pornography was not happening to me. Yes, the same issue kept coming up and we had to keep dealing with it, but, and I'm not correcting you, Jennifer, but I want the people listening to not take anything we say and say, "See? "There it is, it's coming at me." [Jennifer] No, and when I said it's coming, I mean the enemy is dangling that temptation in front of us because he knows our flesh is weak. And we have to be willing to stand strong against it. [Aaron] And so if we think it's something happening to us, we'll never walk strong. It's something I believed. I believed it was a outward force that I had no control over. But it is not. 'Cause if that was the case, then no one's free. And the things that the Bible tells us are lies. Our encouragement to those listening is to believe the truth. Proclaim the truth, so confession, which is saying what's going on. Saying what you're doing. What you are choosing to do, which is the key. Not coming like, "Oh, it happened again. "Oh, I messed up again. "Oh, "I slipped and fell into this thing again now." Confessing that you chose again to cheat on your spouse, that you chose again to walk in unfaithfulness with your God. That's true confession. And then repentance is to turn the other way. I am no longer gonna choose to walk in that. Because if it's something that we accidentally fall into, if it's something that happens to us, then there is no need to repent because you don't know if you're gonna slip. You're walking on this journey, and you're just gonna fall into the pit by accident, and that's just your destiny. But that's actually not true because that goes against everything Jesus came to do on the cross. He came to set us free from the bonds of sin and death. And the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the same power that will bring life to our mortal bodies. That's what the Bible tells us. And in a little bit, we're gonna get through more scripture just so you listening can hear the truth about this. And I wanna bring up something, you said, Jennifer, that pornography hurts us, and it destroys us, and I wanna highlight one more truth, it was something that I never realized until I started walking in purity. And God was revealing to me who I was, and the things I was doing, is that pornography doesn't just hurt us, the ones consuming the pornography. We are literally condoning and cheering on, and paying for things that we would never condone, or cheer on, or pay for a Christian to do. And a lot of these men, women, whoever's in these videos or photos, many of them are forced into it. And even the ones that choose it, were literally saying, "Yeah, keep doin' that. "Keep doin' that." We're choosing to hold hands with someone to Hell, by the thing we are consuming. And if Christians would realize that, if I would have realized that earlier, would I have stopped? Maybe. If I woulda realized like, man, I'm actually like, partaking, participating in someone's journey, to a journey away from God. And it's easy for us to think like, well they're just things, it's just a video. Well no, those are people in those videos. Real people that are made in God's image. And I just hope that this is hitting home with those listening, I hope that people are hearing our hearts of concern and love, and are also being, having their eyes opened, and their hearts opened, and that true Godly repentance would come from this. [Jennifer] So I remember there was two pivotal moments in our marriage, that stand out to me. I think you'll know what I'm talking about, but they are pivotal because they helped you change in this area. And so I wanna share 'em so that those listening can be inspired by it and hopefully it, this, hopefully this moment right here becomes a pivotal moment for them. [Aaron] Amen, yeah. [Jennifer] So I remember it was just after we had Elliot, he was just a little baby, and I was sitting in a rocking chair midday, trying to rock him. And you were sitting at the desk in our bedroom, and you started telling me and confessing how you had-- -Again. [Jennifer] Messed up again. And normally, I mean, list an emotion, and I've expressed it. Tears, uncontrollably, like just all of it. Sadness-- All rightfully so, 'cause of what I've done to you. [Jennifer] But this time, I just sat pretty much gripping Elliot's little body, and patting his back, and my heart was just so burdened for you. And I remember-- It was actually your first time thinking about me in that way, because of what I was going through. [Jennifer] Yeah, yeah, like if tables were turned, yeah, putting myself in your shoes, but I just, I questioned you on your faithfulness to me. Because on the outside, we were Christians moving forward in our marriage and at this point, we actually had already been reconciled and determined to stay together. And you messed up again, and I questioned you on your faithfulness and I reminded you what scripture says about it being adultery, and I know you have already mentioned that today, but I remember just reminding you in this, in that moment that you were committing adultery against me. And I questioned how you would want our future to go, I questioned how you would want our son's future to go. [Aaron] I remember all this. You asked me if I actually feared God. You asked me if I actually loved God. You were challenging me at the core of what I was doing. Not just this one event, oh, I forgive you for the event, you told me like, you need to realize what you are doing Aaron. And I remember it was like, shocking. It was like oh my gosh. This is different first of all, 'cause usually I'm like looking forward to you, not looking forward to it, but I'm expecting an outburst, a reprimand-- A reprimand, yeah. [Aaron] "What, you did it again? "Don't you know how this makes me feel?" But you went from, you actually loved me, selflessly, 'cause even though you were totally hurt, you instead told me the truth in love. You said, "Aaron, you are committing adultery." And I think that was actually the first time I, we recognized that's what I was doing. I'm laughing 'cause I'm embarrassed. That was a pivotal moment, and that began actually, over the next few years, me walking in-- [Jennifer] The start of the true change. [Aaron] Like it, I did still have-- [Jennifer] A weakness. [Aaron] I still fell back into it, I don't wanna say fell back in it, I still chose it, but it was, it became much less, and much less, and then what the next event that happened was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like the, the like it was the thing like, so you opened my eyes to like, "Man, I have to change. "This is not okay what I'm doing." And then this next moment, I'm sitting in my car with our pastor and mentor, and he's, and we just had dinner and we were hangin' out, and he said, "Aaron, are you walkin' in purity?" And I said, "Well, no, recently I did this." 'Cause I wanna be honest, that I'm tryin' to walk in repentance and openness and light. And he says, "Well Aaron," he's like, "nothing's gonna change "until you believe the truth." He's like, "You need to believe the truth." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" Because the way I talked was, oh, it happened to me again, I fell into, I stumbled into, oh, woe is me, like as if something was happening to me, so, 'cause I was still not thinking clearly about this even though you challenged me correctly. I still wasn't thinking clearly. And he said, "You are not a slave "to your addiction to pornography. "Pornography is not something that has control over you." Which I didn't believe when he was saying it, 'cause I believed it controlled me. And then he said, "And also, Aaron, "you need to admit and confess that you love your sin." He said, "You need to say it because you do." And I said, "I don't love it." And he's like, "Well, your actions are proving different. "You say with your mouth that you don't, "and then you say with your actions that you do." And it went right into my heart. And it was the first time in my life that I was able to say with my mouth out loud, that I actually loved pornography. And what that meant was is I actually was able to fully confess, 'cause before I was confessing about the fruit of my sin, not confessing the sin that I loved my lust. [Jennifer] Which if people are wondering, my response is I hate hearing it, I hate knowing it, I hate, I hate all of that, but I think it's necessary in order to overcome-- [Aaron] Well, a true confession is necessary, I had to be able to admit the truth, 'cause I was walking in lies. And the lies were keeping me in the darkness, and the lies were keeping me trapped, when the trap was my lies, it was, there was no trap. There was no chains, 'cause God broke those chains on the cross. And he's like, "You need to recognize that, "that that is the truth. "You have not stopped sinning because you love your sin." And so I, once he said it out loud and once I said it out loud, I realized, wait a minute, I don't want to love my sin. And so I confessed, "Lord, forgive me for my love of my sin, "and change me." And that was the last time. I think there was one other little time after that, that was, and I'm not trying to minimize, significantly different kind of sinning, but in the same area. And I confessed that out loud to Matt, and to you, and that was it. And it's been how many years now? [Jennifer] Five. [Aaron] Five. But those are the pivotal conversations, was you telling me the truth in love, and then another brother telling me the truth in love. Not, "Aw, sorry, yeah we all, we're all gonna struggle. "Let's just get back up, "and let's just try harder next time." But that's not, that is not what God's asking us to do. He's not asking us to try harder, He's asking us to walk in the truth. And the truth is, let's read some of these verses. The truth is, Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free; "stand firm therefore, "and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery." And that's what I was doing, I kept submitting to a yoke of slavery that didn't exist. I was allowing a yoke to be put on me that didn't need to be there. So I'm free. That's what Christ came for, freedom. Would you read Romans 6:6? [Jennifer] "We know that our old self "was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin "might be brought to nothing, "so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin." [Aaron] Oh, so it's not that I have to try harder, I am not enslaved to sin. So I need to walk in the actual truth-- [Jennifer] Which is 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. "The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." [Aaron] So am I walking in this old self while pretending to be a new self? [Jennifer] Talk about a marriage fixing things. [Aaron] Yeah, and the marriage doesn't fix it, Christ has already fixed it. [Jennifer] No, the marriage of Christ, the being one. Oh, yeah, we're being one with the body of Christ, we're His bride, and it says that He's gonna come back to a pure white, and without blemish bride. That's who, that's what I'm a part of, that's who I am. That's who you are listening. [Jennifer] Yeah, how dare Him come back to a bride that's been-- [Aaron]Dancing in the mud, with her dress. [Jennifer] Sad. [Aaron] So those listening, your old self has been crucified. It's been crucified. Christ set us free on the cross. Ephesians 4:17 through 24, "Now this I say and testify in the Lord, "that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, "in the futility of their minds. "They are darkened in their understanding, "and alienated from the life of God "because of the ignorance that is in them," that was my life, I was walking as, He's telling Christians to not walk as Gentiles were, I was walking that way in my ignorance. "Alienated from the life of God "because of the ignorance that is in them, "due to their hardness of hearts. "They have become callous "and have given themselves up to sensuality, "greedy to practice every kind of impurity. "But this is not the way you learned Christ, "assuming that you have heard about him "and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, "to put off your old self," Aaron, put off your old self. "Which belongs to your former manner of life "and is corrupt through deceitful desires," I, that's crazy that it uses the word deceitful desires. They trick us, they're desires that are deceitful. "And to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, "and to put on the new self, "created after the likeness of God "in true righteousness and holiness." So my trying harder is actually just putting on the new self. Christ's likeness. 1 John 2:1, "My little children, "I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. "But if anyone does sin, "we have an advocate with the Father, "Jesus Christ the righteous." What's awesome about that is when we're walking in righteousness, and we stumble because we've chosen to, or we haven't, we weren't walking in the, we weren't walking in the Spirit, but we were walking in the flesh, we have an advocate. But the things that we're reading right now have been written so that we won't sin. So that we will actually walk in the truth. 1 John 2:28 and 29, "And now, little children, "abide in him, so that when he appears "we may have confidence and not shrink from him "in shame at his coming. "If you know that he is righteous, "you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness "has been born of him." I love that it says practice first of all, 'cause that that means is that we are not yet righteous, but we are becoming righteous. And as we practice it, we get better at it. So am I practicing my sinful desires and getting better at those things, or am I practicing righteousness and getting worse at my sinful desires? And that was, that's my life now, is I'm getting worse at my sinful desires and I'm actually getting better at avoiding temptation, and knowing what temptation is, and being strong under the temptation, and fleeing from the temptation, and talking about the temptation. And now encouraging others to do the same. [Jennifer] So actually I was gonna mention that, how you walk in authority now and challenge other believers, and I can be confident that you're gonna walk our children through these things, that you can teach them, and I don't know, I just, I love that you have this authority that you can say, "I've overcome this, you can too." [Aaron] Which is amazing, because when we see other people overcome something, it makes it that much more believable that we can. And so you're listening to this, and if you're thinking, "Man, I can't do that." Stop believing the lies, you have been set free by Christ. You have the power of the Holy Spirit in you. You've been given everything that pertains to life and Godliness, just like I have. I'm not special, I haven't been giving, given something that you haven't been given, Jennifer hasn't been given something that you haven't been given. We have Christ in us. We have, we could put on the new self, created after the likeness of God. [Jennifer] Something that we mention in our book coming out, Marriage After God, is that Jesus didn't come back to kind of save you, He came back to save you. [Aaron] He came back to fully save us, today, when Jesus teaches the disciples how to pray, He says, "Thy will be done on Earth, "as it is in Heaven." Which is cool because we can actually have His will on Earth, in our life. Now we haven't, our bodies are still gonna decay and we're gonna still see death, and these bodies are gonna fall apart because they're not yet redeemed. But you know what is fully redeemed? Our spirit. And He's renewing us day by day, and He's giving us a new mind, and new spirit, and He's, and through His word, and through walking in community, and through being, walking in light and truth, we can actually walk the way God has enabled us to walk. It tells us in Malachi, that He will write His laws on our hearts, on tablets of flesh. They're no longer on stones that can be broken, they're on hearts of flesh. His laws are written on our hearts, and not only has He showed us in our hearts how we can, how we should walk, but He's empowered us to do so through the power of His son and His spirit. I don't know, I hope that was vulnerable enough, and again, our prayer is that those listening, you, would not be freed from this addiction, and this struggle with sin, and pornography, but that you would recognize that you are free, and that you do not have to choose to be submitted to it. You don't have to choose it. You can choose actually to walk away, you could choose actually to turn the computer off, you can choose actually to put your phone down, you can choose to run away as fast as you can. We can choose that, and we are empowered to do so through the Holy Spirit. [Jennifer] So if this episode encourages them to go have a conversation, and there's confession and reconciliation, do you wanna share some things that we've learned over time that could help them? [Aaron] Yeah, I will say on my part, or for those that are going to do the confessing, and we talked about confession in one of our episodes, and they should go back and listen to that actually, don't minimize, meaning, well, it was just this, it wasn't as big as deal you think, it was only for a moment. Just say I did this. And then the second thing I would always try and do that I shouldn't do, was I tried to control your reaction. Please don't be mad, I know that I was wrong, please don't be sad, please don't be frustrated-- Or why are you crying. [Aaron] Or why are you crying. And so I, when I started walking in purity, I purposed that if I was gonna confess to you, I was just going to tell you what I did, when I did it, and then I was gonna be quiet. [Jennifer] And so on my part, I mean, as the person receiving the confession, something that I've learned is, well the first thing is, God created us with a lot of different range of emotions, but He created us with emotions. And so the first thing is acknowledging that you feel, and the second one is you're still called to have self-control in those feelings. And-- And you're allowed to have the feelings. And you're allowed to have those feelings, so you may cry, you may get angry, you may get all of the things, but you still are required to have self-control in them, and that doesn't mean that you just shut it off and you don't express those emotions, it just means that you don't sin in your emotions. And so I just wanted to share that as the counterpart to what you-- [Aaron] And on the person receiving the confession, the other spouse, your job is to not just love your spouse, but to speak truth in love. Like you did that day. You very calmly and lovingly said, "You are walking a very dangerous line. "You are committing adultery, "and you are harming our marriage, "and what you're doing will destroy us. "And you must change." [Jennifer] And then the biggest thing after all of that, is reconciliation. It should always be for the purpose of reconciliation and we hope that it's for reconciliation in your guy's marriages. [Aaron] And reconciliation can happen even though trust is still broken. Because the reconciliation is knowing that hey, we are still one, but we are going to work on this trust thing. Because you have hurt me and we're gonna walk it out together, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna avoid being healed, but it's going to take time and that's gotta be okay. Because it's not like a switch that gets flipped. There's been unfaithfulness, there's been brokenness, there's been sin, and there's consequences to that sin. But as a team, you walk towards healing and restoration, on both parties, and you do that by prayer, you do that by fasting, you do that by walking faithfully-- [Jennifer] And abiding in the word of God. [Aaron] And abiding in the word of God, and you also do that in community. You don't do it alone. If you're a brother dealing with this, you find other brothers that are gonna say, "Dude, stop it." That have authority in your life because they walk in purity also. If you're the wife, you find girls that are gonna be like, "You can't do this. "You need to walk in purity." And the goal is oneness, unity, healing, righteousness, holiness for the purpose that we always go back to is that God has a job for our marriages. He's got a ministry for us to do, and we will not be able to do it if we're stuck in sin. [Jennifer] Yeah, we need to be pure, and we need to present His bride, pure. [Aaron] And that's what we get to do, we get to purify ourselves, we get to practice righteousness, and we get to chase after God every day, and I just pray that this brings freedom today. I pray that hundreds, thousands of couples today would find not just healing, but realize the freedom that they have. And that they would be the ones that people look at and say, "I didn't know you could walk in freedom like that." And then they'll say, "Actually, this is what the Bible says." And they'll be able to help other Christians walk that way as well. [Jennifer] What an incredible ripple effect for the body of Christ. Oh yeah. [Jennifer] Well thank you guys so much for joining us on this episode. It was, it was vulnerable, and I appreciate you sharing, Aaron. And I can see that there's probably gonna be a lot of questions, probably come up from this. Probably. [Jennifer] And we might have to do another episode, but that's okay. But we do wanna invite you guys to pray with us, and close out the episode with this prayer from Aaron. [Aaron] Dear Lord, thank You for Your loving patience and kindness towards us. Thank You for Your mercy and forgiveness. Lord, I pray as Christian men and women we would practice walking in righteousness. I pray we would pursue purity, as You are pure. I pray that as Christian men and women who proclaim You to be Lord in our life, that we would not walk in this sin anymore. Change us, transform us, and cut out any dead flesh and wicked way that is in us. Help us to fear You and love You. Help us to see the truth about pornography, that it is destructive, sinful, immoral, and that it is adultery. Your word tells us that there should not even be a hint of sexual morality named among us as Christians. Help us to live with integrity, help us to be transparent and honest in marriage, help us to choose reconciliation over isolation in marriage. We are Your saints, and I pray we would walk in a manner worthy of Your call in our lives. In Jesus name, Amen. Thanks for joining us this week, and we look forward to what the Lord's gonna do in your life. And the testimonies that are gonna come from the truth that people heard today. [Jennifer] We'll see ya next week. [Aaron] Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

My Guest this week is Adam Wiggins, the cofounder of Ink & Switch — an independent industrial research lab working on digital tools for creativity and productivity.   The topic of the conversation is the future of product-focused R&D, the Hollywood Model of work in tech, Ink & Switch’s unique organizational structure, and whether it can be extended to other areas of research.   Links Adam Wiggins’ Home Page Adam on Twitter Ink & Switch's Home Page A presentation on Ink & Switch's Structure Sloan Review Article on Applying Hollywood Model to R&D (Paywalled)   Transcript   How the idea came about Ben:  How did you come up with this idea? Like wait what what originated that I'm just really interested in the thought process behind there Adam: sure, you know, I think me and my partner's we come out of the sort of the startup kind of school of thought on Innovation, I think. There's a lot of way to think about there's the more academic research minded approach to Innovation. There's made which get a bigger companies. So yeah, we come out of very much from the yeah. I don't know what you want to call it ad Jolene startup y combinator or whatever that you know mix of elements is which is really about build a thing really quickly get it in front of customers minimal viable product innovate, but at least my thinking is that the startup model has been so successful in the last let's say decade. Particularly with the kind of mass production of the startup that you get through groups like y combinator such that I feel like the problems the space of problems that can be solved with that kind of, you know group of 25 25 year old Founders spending three months to build a thing not say it's let's say saturated. Yeah to some degree in that maybe the more interesting problems are like bigger or longer in scope. And so then we thought about okay. Well, what's a what's a model that is more possible for going after bigger things. And that's when I kind of fell down the rabbit hole of researching these Industrial Research Labs. I know that you spent a lot of time on as well, you know, these big famous examples like Bell labs and Xerox Parc and arpa and so forth. And of course many other examples when we thought okay, well, You know, we're not at the we're not in a position to you know, be setting up a multimillion-dollar research arm of a government or commercial institution. But what can we do on a smaller scale with a small Grant and it's kind of a scrappy band and people and that's kind of what led us to the Incan switch approach.    The Thought Process Behind the Model Ben: can you go one step further where it's  you have the constraint that you can't do  a straight-up corporate research lab, but I think there are a lot of unique ideas in terms of a model that are sort of just unique and. In that like how did you cope that Lee idea that like, okay, we're going to like have our principles. We're going to pull in people temporarily. We're going to  build this network that that seems sort of to come out of the blue. So what was what was the thought process behind that? Adam: Well, maybe it came out of the constraint of do it with very little money. And so part of that is we're trying to work on a big problem. Hopefully and I can talk about that if you want, but the in terms of the the model that we're using we came at it from do it with very little money and that in turn leads to okay. Your big costs are usually sort of like office space and then the people right, but if we can do these really short term projects, we called the Hollywood model and I can explain about that if you want the basically we have like a four or six or eight week project. You can bring in some experts on a freelance basis and you don't necessarily need to commit to paying salary is over the longer term and you couple that with no office. We have an all distributed team. We're not asking people they don't need to pick up. Move somewhere to even temporarily to work on a project. Right? And so we what we can offer them as a lot of flexibility. And so the I think there's certain there's benefits for the people to participate in these projects join, but from the lab point of view again, it was we were embracing this constraint of do it really really cheap. Yeah and that basically boiled down to very short projects people on a freelance basis only no office and that that's kind of what what led us there, but I think there actually is a lot. Benefits to doing things that way there's some big downsides as well but there's some benefits as well. So the constraint led us to the model you might say got a desire to work on a big problem in the same with a longer time Horizon like you would for a you know, a classic R&D lab, but trying to do that with a lot less money. Let us to this kind of short-term project model. The Hollywood Model in Tech Ben:  There are three things that I want to take into from that the three things are going to be  how the Hollywood model works and sort of the difference between the Hollywood model in Tech versus in Hollywood  and then like those those pros and cons and then it feels like there's a tension between working on a really big long term projects via very short term sort of Sprint demos. So. So let's let's start with the Hollywood model because in Hollywood I like after after I learned about. You doing that I sort of dug into it and it's it seems like the Hollywood model Works partially because all of Hollywood is set up so that even the best people work on this temporary basis. Whereas in Tech, it feels like you sort of have to get people who are in very special life situations in order to get the best people. So like, how do you how do you juggle that? Adam: Yeah, yeah, that is those are really good point. Well just to I guess briefly explain. The Hollywood model is please the idea. There is I actually lived in Los Angeles for a time and have a lot of friends who are trying to break into that industry and got a little exposure to that. I don't pretend to be an expert but and you can read about this online as well, which is that most movies are made by forming a an entity usually an LLC for the duration of the movie Project. You know, I might be a year or two. Here's whatever the shooting time is and everyone from the director or the camera people the whole cast the entire crew are all hired as essentially short-term contractors for whatever the duration of time their services are needed. But even someone like director who's there throughout. It's essentially a one or two-year gig for him it yeah, and everyone's fired right things right expanded and it's and it's an interesting accounting model because it means the sort of earnings from the movie in the and how that connects to the studio. And then the way the studio is invest is almost more like maybe Venture Capital invest in startups to some degree. So that's that's my understanding of it. So we kind of borrowed this idea for saying okay part of what we like about this is you get a situation. Any given person and a cameraman a crew member a member of the cast doesn't isn't guaranteed some long-term employment. They don't sign on for an indefinite thing. They sign up for the duration of the project. Right and the end everyone leaves. But what you see is that the same directors tend to hire the same crew the same. You probably noticed this most dramatically in directors that bring the same actors on to the same onto their future films because if working with them before worked, why wouldn't you bring them back? Right and so it's but it's it inverts the model of instead of we're going to keep working together by default. It's more every time a project ends. We're all going to disperse but the things that work will kind of bring back together again and just inverting the model in a subtle way. I. Produces better teams over the long term. But yeah, you get this sort of loose network of people who work and collaborate together to have more of an independent contractor gig mindset and I think that was yeah it was inspired by that and like you said, can we bring that to kind of Technology Innovation?    How do you incentivize the hollywood model? Ben: Most people in Tech don't do that. So, how do you sort of generate? How do you get the best people to come along for that model? Adam: That was definitely a big unknown going into it and certainly could have been a showstopper. I was surprised to discover how many great people we were able to get on board maybe because we have an interesting Mission maybe because me and some of the other. Core people in the team have you know just good networks good career Capital. Yeah, but actually it's that more people are in between spaces and you might guess so quite a lot to work with us on projects. Certainly. There's just people who are straight. You know, they made freelancing or some kind of independent Contracting be their business, right so that those folks are to work with a lot of folks that do open source things, you know, we work a lot of people from the DAT Community, for example, a lot of folks there. They actually do make a livelihood through some degree of freelancing in this space. So that's an easy one. But more common I think is you think of that. Yeah full-time salaried software engineer or product design or what have you and they. You know, maybe they do a new job every few years, but they're expecting a full employment salary HR benefits, you know the lunch on campus and the you know, the massages and you know yoga classes and so I was worried that trying to you know compete to get Talent like that when all we have to offer these very short term projects would be difficult. But as it turned out a lot of people are in some kind of in-between space. We're really interesting. Project with an interesting team good sort of in between things maybe a palate cleanser in a lot of cases turned out to be quite interesting. So we got a lot of people who are you know, they're basically looking for their next full-time gig but then they see what we have to offer and they go oh, you know, that's actually quite interesting and they can keep looking for the next job while they're working with us or whatever. Yeah their Habits Like do this thing is like an in-between thing onto the way that are to their next. Employment or we have situations like, you know one person we were able to get on the team with someone who is on Parental. Leave from their startup and so basically wanted to be like getting the mental stimulation of a project but couldn't really go into the office due to needing to take care of an infant, right? Um, and so by working with us was able to get some nice in that case part-time work and some mental stimulation and a chance to build some skills in the short term in a way that was compatible with. Needing to be home to for childcare. So the a lot of cases like that. I think so it granted, you know people that are looking for full-time gigs. We can't give them the best offer in the world. But there's a surprising number of people that are willing to take a weird interesting kind of cool learning oriented project in between there. May be more conventional jobs. Building from scratch with the Hollywood Model? Ben: Yeah. Because one of the things that I'm constantly thinking about what I'm asking these questions is how do we have more things using the same model in the world? Because I think it's a really cool model that not many people are using and so it's like what like could there be a world where there are people who just go from like one to the other and then would be an interesting shift in the industry to be a little more gig oriented or Independent. Contractor oriented versus the sort of the full-time job expectation that folks have now. Yeah and another sort of difference between I think Hollywood and Tech is that Hollywood you're always sort of Reinventing things from scratch. Whereas in tech there is code and and things that sort of get passed on and built on top of . Do you do you run into any problems with that or is it just because like every every experiment is sort of its own its own thing. You don't you don't have that problem. Adam: Yeah, the building on what came before is obviously really important for a lot of our projects. We were pretty all over the place in terms of platforms. And that was on purpose we built a bunch. Projects on the iOS platform we bought built from on the Microsoft Surface platform. We've done in various different web Technologies, including electron and classic web apps and so in many cases there is not a direct, you know, even if we had written a library to do the thing we needed in the other thing. We actually couldn't bring that over in that kind of build it all from scratch each time or or the the mic slate of it. I think is part of what makes it creative or forced to rethink things and not just rely on the. Previous assumptions that said. You know for certain tracks to research you might call it a big one for us is this world of like CR DTS and essentially like getting a lot of the value of getting a lot of capabilities that you expect from cloud Solutions real time collaboration Google Docs style of being able to do that and more peer-to-peer or less centralized oriented environment. And so we in an earlier project. We built a library called Auto merge just in JavaScript and it was being plugged into our electron app and. And in future projects, we wanted to build on top of that and we have done a number of subsequent projects some of which were but obviously they needed to like use the JavaScript runtime in some ways. So if we were doing another electron project, yes, you can do that but that and then another case, you know, we wanted to go with tablet thing. All right. Well that limits us because we can't use that library in other places. And in one case is we chose to build for example in the Chrome OS platform because we can get a tablet there and partially because we already had this investment in kind of. Script ecosystem through these libraries. But yeah again that comes with comes with trade-offs to some degree. So so we're always trying to balance build on what we made before. But also we're really willing to kind of start over or do the blank canvas because we really feel like at this. Level of early Innovation. What matters is the learning and what lessons you learn from past projects and you could often rebuild things in a fraction of the time in some cases we have actually done that is rebuilt an entire project sort of like feature complete from what on a completely different platform. But if you can skip past all the false turns and you know Discovery process and to build what you where you ended up it's often something that can be done in just a tiny fraction of the time or cost Knowledge Transfer in the Ink&Switch Model Ben: Got it. And  do you have a way of transferring learning between  different groups of temporary people that things like would be one tricky piece. Adam: Absolutely. Well an important thing here is we do have core lab members both. We have some principal investigators who are people that are around long-term and are the people that drive our projects and their, you know, carry a lot of those learnings both the Practical ones, but also like culture. Cultural elements and then a lot of the folks we work with they'll come back to work for a future project. But yeah, absolutely every given project is a new combination of people some existing people in the lab. They carry forward some of those learnings and then some people who are new and so we've had to do we tried a variety of approaches to kind of. Do a mental download or crash course and you know, none of it's perfect. Right because so much knowledge. Is that even though we take a lot of time to do a big retrospective at the end of our projects try to write out both raw notes, but also like a summarize here's what we learn from this project even with that and sharing that information with new people so much of what you learn is like tacit knowledge. It's somehow, you know more in your gut than in your head. And so to some degree we do count on the people that are more standing numbers that go project project in some cases. We do have to relearn small lessons each time. And again that that somewhat is a you know, if you start over from scratch and you kind of start from the same premises then you often discover some of the same same learnings. I think that's okay as long as we get a little faster each. Each time and then yeah combine that with learning documents and I don't know for example, we're actually the point now we have enough projects under our belt. We actually have a deck that is like here's all our past projects and kind of a really quick crash course summary, at least here's what they're called and least when people reference. Oh, yeah. That's the way we did things on Project number five right was called this and you can be like at least have some context for that. And so short answer is we haven't solved the problem but here's some things that at least have helped with that. Yeah, and how many projects have you done in total? Yeah. Well depends on exactly how you count. But when it comes to what we consider the sort of the full list called formal projects, which is we spend some time kind of wandering around in a in a period of time to call pre-infusion named after the the espresso machine for the sort of record time. You put in the water to kind of warm up the grounds. So the version of that and once we have basically a process where once principal investigator finds a project with egg, I think there's a really promising area and we should fund this. Okay. Now we're going to go actually hire experts that are specific to this area. We're going to commit to doing this for again six weeks or eight weeks something on that order. There's a project brief we present basically present that to our board to basically give like a thumbs up thumbs down. I'm so if you count stuff that has been through that whole process we've now done 10 projects cool. That's over the course of about three years. Ink&Switch Speed vs. Startup Speed Ben: Yeah, that's that's really good compared to. Like I start up where you do one project and takes three years. Adam:  I need to maybe feels sometimes it feels slow to me. But honestly, we spend as much time trying to figure out what it is that we want to do as actually doing it and then suspend a really good bit of time again trying to retrospect pull out the learnings actually figure out. What did we learn? You know, we usually come out with strong feelings and strong Instinct for kind of this work. This didn't work. We'd like to continue this. There's more to research here. This is really promising. This was a dead end but actually takes quite a bit of time to really digest that and turn it into something and then kind of the context shift of okay. Now, let me reorient and switch gears to a new project is really a whole skill, too. To be doing such a rapid turnover, I think and I think we've gotten decent at it over the last few years, but I think you get a lot better if you wanted to keep at it. Ink&Switch's Mission and Reconciling Long Term Thinking with Short Term Projects Ben: Yeah. And I've actually like to step back real fast to the bookmark in terms of  a the big picture long-term thinking like what is in your mind the real Mission here and B. How do you square these? Like, how do you. Generate  a long-term result from a whole bunch of short term projects. Adam:  right. Yeah, really cool problem. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah and one again, I don't pretend to have answers to we're still in the middle of this experiment will see if it actually actually works. Yeah, let me start by just briefly summarizing our our mission or a theme. I like to think of it a little bit right like typically these and these great examples of successful Industrial Research Labs, you know for Bell Labs or theme was this Universal connectivity that has Bell had this growing Communications Network and they wanted to like solve all the problems that had to do with trying to tie together an entire nation with Communications technology or Xerox Parc. Of course, they had this office of the future idea. It's. How many papers and copier what is it going to be? I think you need a theme that is pretty broad. But still you're not just doing a bunch of random stuff that people there, you know think it's cool or interesting new technologies. It's tied together in some way. So for us our theme or a research area is Computing for productivity and creativity. Sort of what the digital tools that let us do things like write or paint or do science or make art are going to look like in future and we were particularly drawn to this and. And our investors were drawn to this because so much of the brain power and money and general Innovation horsepower in Silicon Valley certainly the tech industry broadly and even to some degree in Academia computer interaction research and so on it really pointed what I would call consumer technology. Right, it does social media It's Entertainment. It's games. It's shopping. Yeah, and and that's really a phenomenon just the last five or ten years, right the successful smartphones the fact that sort of computing has become so ubiquitous and mass-market its health and fitness trackers yet wearable, and you know, that's all great, but. I think that the more inspiring uses the more interesting uses of computers for me personally. I things that are about creativity there about self-improvement there about productivity and when you look at what the state of I'm going to look like a spreadsheet, right if you look at Excel in 1995 and you compare that to Google Sheets in 2018 the kind of looks the same. Yep, you know, it's at a Google Sheets as real-time collaboration, which is great. Don't get me wrong. But basically the same kind of program, right? Yeah. And I think you can say that same thing for many different categories Photoshop or presentation software note-taking software that sort of thing. There's some Innovation to give me to go get me wrong, but it just feels very out of balance how much again of that Innovation horsepower of our industry broad. They could go into Super Side. So for us the theme is around all right. We look forward five or ten years to what we're using to be productive or created with computers. What does it look like and you know, the reality is desktop operating systems or more and more kind of advanced mode because that's not where apple or Microsoft revenue is anywhere. But at the same time I don't think it's you know, touch platform particularly, you know are built around phones and consumer Technologies and sort of the pro uses of them tend to be kind of attack on afterthought. And so it sort of feels like we're in a weird dead end which is like what are we going to be doing 10 years from now to yeah do a science paper or write a book or make a master thesis or write a film script? It's hard to picture and but actually picturing it is that's that's sort of our the job of our research here. Ben:  and  that is a really long term project because you sort of need to go  back down the mountain a little bit to figure out what the what the other mountain is. Adam: Absolutely. Yeah the local Maxima of some kind and so maybe you need to yeah be a little. Out of the out of the box and go away from basically make things worse before they get better. Aside on AI Enabled Creativity Tools Ben: Yeah, just aside on that. Have you been paying attention to any of the sort of like a I enabled creativity tools? This is just been on my mind because Neurosis is coming up and there's some people who have been doing some like pretty cool stuff in terms of like. Enhance creativity tools were like maybe you start typing and then it starts completing the sentence for you and and or like you sort of like draw like a green blob and it fills in a mountain and then you sort of like just adjust it. Have you been paying any attention to those tools at all? Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. Some of the follow sir pokes on Twitter that post really interesting things in that vein that hasn't been an area of research for us partially because maybe we're a little contrarian and we like to kind of look where. You are looking and I feel like Ai, and that kind of Realm of things is very well. Or I should say a lot of people are interested in that that said yeah, I think to me one of the most interesting cases with that is usually we talk about with like generative design or things like. Sot great Target Range Loop last year by an architect who basically uses various kind of solvers we plug in like here's the criteria we have for like a building face, you know, we need the window has to be under the, you know can't because of the material dimensions and the legal things and whatever it can't be here's the constraints on it. But here's what we want out of the design. You can plug that in and the computer will give you sort of every possible permutation. And so it's a pretty natural step to go from there to then having some kind of. Algorithm whether it be here a stick or something more learning oriented, which is then try to figure out from that superset of every possible design satisfies the constraint which of them are actually sort of the best in some sense or fit what we said that we like before where we use, you know, the client or the market or whatever it is you're looking for. So I think there's a lot of potential there as I think it was more of an assistive device. I get a little skeptical when it gets into the like let's get the computers to do our thinking for us. Yeah realm of things. I would say, you know, I think you see with the fit and of the sort of auto complete version of this, but but yeah, but then but then maybe I you know, I love that artisanal Craftsman, you know, some kind of unique vibe that humans bring to the table and so yeah tools as. Assisting us and helping us and working in tandem with us and I think yeah, there's one probably a lot of potential for a eye on that that said that's not an area where researching. Ben: Yeah. I just I wanted to make sure that was on your radar because like that's that's something that I pay a lot of attention to him very excited about. More Reconciling Long Term and Short Term Ben: Yeah, and so for the long-term Vision,  the thing that I always worry about in the modern world is that we are so focused on  what can you do in a couple months these little Sprint's that if there's a long-term thing you just wouldn't be able to get there with a bunch of little projects. So I'm really interested in like how you resolve that conflict. Adam: Yeah, well you could say it's one of the biggest Innovations in Innovation, which I know is the area your study medication to get into this iterative mindset this what he called agile whether you call it. Yeah, iterative that the idea of kind of breaking it down into small discrete steps rather than thinking in terms of like I don't know we're going to go to the moon and let's spend the decade doing that. But instead think of and I didn't even see that difference in something like the space program right the way that the modern. Space exploration stuff that's going on is much more in terms of these little ratcheting steps where one thing gets you the next rather than that one big Mega project. It's going to take a really long time the super high risk and super high beta so I in general. I think that's a really good sort of shift that's happened. But yes, it does come at the expense of sometimes there are jumps you can or need to make that are not necessarily smaller steps. And so I certainly don't propose to have the answer to that. But at least for what we're doing the way I think of it is, you know, starting with a pretty Grand Vision or a big Vision or a long time Horizon. If nothing else and trying to force yourself first and foremost into the bigger thinking right? But then going from there to okay, if that's you know, where we want to go. What is the first step in that direction? What is the thing that can give us learning that will help us get there and one of the metaphors I always love to use for I guess research in general or any kind of Discovery oriented process is the other Lewis and Clark expedition, you know, this was commissioned by the Thomas Jefferson was president at the time and it to me was really crazy to read about. Holly you know they hadn't explored the interior of the continent they believe there might still be willing - running around and actually one of the things Thomas Jefferson Wander from the he's like, I really loved a, you know get a while you're out there they just had no idea they knew that the Pacific Ocean was on the other side that had ships go around there. But other than that it was this dark interior to the continent, but they sat out you know that expedition set out with the goal of reaching the Pacific Ocean and find out. What's on the way right and they did they took their best guess of what they might encounter on the way and put together Provisions in the team to try to get there. But then the individual sort of you might wait, you might call the iterative decisions. They need to make along the way to be go up this mountain rage. And we divert this way to be cut across this River. Do we do we follow this for a while do we try to befriend these tribes people who run away etcetera. Those are the sort of the iterative steps for the important thing is keeping in mind that long-term strategic goal. Um and defining that goal in such a way that it doesn't say go west, you know, it's not a set of directions to get there because you can't know that you have to start with here's what our vision is. Let's connect the two coasts of this country and then we're going to take whatever whatever iterative steps seem to be most promising to lead us in that direction. Also realizing that sometimes the most iterative step leads us in a way even away from our goal. So hopefully that's what we're trying to do it in can switch is picking individual projects. We hope carve off a piece of the bigger thing that we think will increase our learning or build our Network or just somehow illuminate some part of the this problem that we want to we want to understand better again, what is the future of you know, productive and creative Computing and then hopefully over time those will add up in the trick is not to get lost for me. I think the trick is not to get too lost in. Detail of the project right? And that's where the Hollywood model is. So important because you got to end the project and step away to truly have perspective on it and to truly return to looking at the bigger thing and that's what you don't get in my experience working in a startup that has operations and customers and revenue that you know goals. He need to hit us according to those things which are absolutely you know, the right way to run a business but then. Keeping that that that bigger picture view and that longer term mindset is very difficult. If not impossible in that setting. So that's our approach. Anyways, see how about in longer term? Loops around Loops: The Explicitly Temporary Nature of the Whole Lab Ben:  and in terms of of your approach and ending things is it true that you're actually going to  at the end of a certain amount of time. You're going to step back and look reevaluate the whole. Is it like you're sort of doing like loops loops around Loops Adam:  indeed? Yes. So individual projects have this sort of you know, we'll end it and and step back and evaluate thing. And then yeah, the whole thing is basically, you know, we have a fixed Grant when that's how it's out and right and it's up to us to deliver invest to investors the learning you might call the intellectual property. We're not patenting things or whatever, but the. See protect the things that offer commercial potential and could potentially be funded as startups. Basically. Yeah, that's you know, that's that's what we'll do. And actually that will happen next year. Wow. And when that does happen will hopefully do you know will do the same process? Like you said that the the bigger loop on the smaller Loop which that we've done on the smaller Loops which is retrospect at the end write down everything we've learned and then we do go ahead and let the team. Part of that may be when you've done put all this hard work and getting a team together, but my experience is that if there's really some great opportunity there. You'll recall us it in some new form. What Comes out of the Lab? Ben:  I can see it's  going multiple ways. Where you. You ended and then you could either say  there's another five-year research thing in this or there's some number of sort of more traditional startups to come out of that to try to capture that value are those sort of the the two options. What what do you see as the possibilities that come out of this? Adam: Yeah, those are those are both pretty key outcomes and they're not mutually exclusive right so it could be that we say, all right, great, you know we generated sort of five interesting startup options one of them. You know an investor decided to pick that up and you know, maybe take a team that is based on some of the people in the lab that worked on that and those folks are going to go and essentially work on commercializing that or making a go to market around that but then some other set of people who were involved in things and want to come back to this. He's promising tracks research and we're going to take another grant that has another time duration, I think. The obviously money is your ultimately all of them in limiting factor it yeah in any organization, but but I like the time boxes. Well, I think we use again we use that for our short-term projects and and some degree. We used it for the lab overall. I think thinking that it's like that Star Trek, you know, what is it or three-year Mission our five-year Mission, whatever it is. It's something about the time box that kind of creates clarity. Yeah, maybe in some is and yeah, you might decide to do another time box another chunk of time. In other chapter actually investors do this as well. If you look at something like the way that Venture struck funds are structured they often have sort of multiple. Entities which are you know, it's fun one fun to fund three. Yeah, right and those different funds can have different kind of buy-ins by different partners. They have different companies in their portfolio, even though there is like a continuous. I don't know if you want to call a brand or culture or whatever the ties them all together and I think that approach of like having these natural chapter breaks time or money based chapter breaks in any work is like a really useful and valuable thing for. Productivity and I don't know making the most of the time. Human Timescales - 4-5 Years Ben:  I completely by that. I have this theory that human lives are kind of divided up in like these roughly five year chunks. We're like that's that's the amount of time that you can do the sort of the exact same thing for the most time and if you if you like if you don't have. You can reevaluate every five years but it's like you look at like school. It's like you really like maybe it's like five years plus or minus like to but beyond that it's really hard to like sustained. Intense and tension on the same thing. So that makes that makes a lot of sense   Adam: agree with that. I would actually throw out 4 years as a number which does I think Max match the school thing it also matches the vesting schedules are usually the original vesting schedule and most startups is a four-year window. And if I'm not mistaken, I think that is the median length of marriages think there's something around. Well, you know, maybe it's something around, you know, there's renewal in our work life is what we're talking about here. But there's also renewal in a personal life, right? And if you're yeah if your employee at a company. Maybe something around for years as a feels like the right Tour of Duty. No not say you can't take on another Tour of Duty and maybe with the new role or different responsibilities, but there's something about that that seems like a natural like you said sustained attention, and I think there's something to goes about as well as inventing. Or Reinventing yourself your own personal identity and maybe not connects to you. Marry. Someone for years goes by you're both new people. Maybe those two people aren't compatible anymore. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe that's figure that's reaching a little bit far. I mean the other yeah Investors, Grants, and Structuring Lab Financing to Align Incentives Ben: that makes a lot of sense and you mentioned investors a couple of times but then also that it's a grant so  how did you something something that I'm always interested in is sort of like how to. He's up. So the incentives are all aligned between the people like putting in the money the people doing the work and people setting the direction and so like how did you structure that? How did you think about sort of coming up with that structure? Adam: Yeah, I've used maybe investors and Grant sort of a little Loosely there again, the model we have is a little different. So when I you know went to pitch the private investors on what we were going to do with this, I basically said look. Me and my partner's we had been successful in the past producing commercial Innovations. We want to look now at something that's a little bigger a little longer term and wouldn't necessarily fit as cleanly into some of the existing funding models including things like the way that the academic research is funded and certainly Venture funding and so take a little gamble on us. Give us a pics. Amount of money a very small amount of money by some perspectives to deliver not profits, but rather to deliver again this kind of concept of learning intellectual property in the loose sense not in the legal sense, but in the sense of intellectual Capital, maybe might be another way to put it and more explicitly. Yeah spin out potential right but the but but no no commitment to make any of these things. It's just we've evaluated all of these opportunities. Here's what we think the most promising ones are and that includes both. Let's call it the validated findings. We think there's a promising opportunity here at technology. That's right to you know, serve serve some marketing users well, but also some things that we got negative findings on we said well look we think there's a really interesting Market of users to serve right here the technology that would be needed kind of isn't ready yet and still five years out or maybe the market is actually tough for an early not very good for sort of early adopter type products and so in some way that would be valuable to. There's as well to have this information on why actually is it is not wise to invest in a particular Market a particular product opportunity. So that was that was what we asked for and promised to deliver and obviously we're still in the middle of this experiment so I can't speak to the whether they're happy with the results. But at least that's the that's the deal that we set up.   Tension between Open Knowledge Sharing and Value Capture Ben:  I just I love the idea of investment not. Necessarily with a monetary return and it's like I wish there were more people who would think that way and. In terms  of incentives. There's also always the question about value capture. So you you do a really good job of putting out into the world just like all like the things that you're working on and so it's like you have all those the great articles and like the code. Do you  hold anything back specifically for for investors? So that because I mean it would make sense, right because you need to capture value at some point. So it's like there's there's got to be some Advantage. So like how do you think about that? Adam: Yeah. I don't have a great answer for you on that, you know, certainly again, you know, there's conventional conventional ideas there around yet Trade Secrets or patents or that sort of thing, but I kind of. Personally, I'm a little bit more of a believer in the maybe comes back to that tacit knowledge we talked about earlier, which is you can in a way. I feel like it's almost misleading to think that if you have the entire project is open source that somehow you have everything there is to know I feel like the code is more of an artifact or an output. Yeah of what you learn and the team of people that made that and the knowledge they have in their minds and and again in. To some degree in there. There are sort of hearts and souls. Yeah is actually what you would need to make that thing successful. Right? And I think a lot of Open Source people who work on open source for a living rely on that some degree, which is you can make a project that is useful and works well on its own but the person who made that and has all the knowledge about it. They have a they have a well of. They have a lot of the resources that are really valuable to the project. And so it's worth your while to for example go hire them. And so that's that's the that's the way I think that we think about in The Way We pitched it to investors. If I were to do this again, I might try to look for something a little more concrete than that a little more tangible than that. The other part of it that I think is. Pretty key. Is that the networking? Yeah, and so you could say okay. There's the knowledge of the people who worked on in their heads. It may be that that kind of ties together. But there's the knowledge we transferred directly by like here's a here's a document that tells you everything we learned about this area where we think the opportunities are but then it's also by the way, we had a bunch of people to work on this some of whom are now in some cases where we were pushing the envelope on a particular Niche e sub technology. We end up with people on the team who are in many cases of the world's experts or we're in touch with the few experts in the world on a particular topic and we have act we have that network access. And so if someone wants to go and make a company they have a very easy way to get in touch with those people not the really impossible for someone else to take that. Bundle of information or take even a code based on GitHub and pick through the contributors list try to figure out who worked on it and go contact them. You know, I think that's possible Right, but I think it's quite different. You would be the pretty substantial disadvantage. There's someone that actually had the worm Network and the existing working collaboration. Extending the Ink&Switch Model to Different Domains Ben: Yes, the I like that and in terms of using the model in different places. Have you thought about how well this applies to  other really big themes the things that you're working on our nice because it's primarily software like the capital costs are pretty low. You don't need like a lab or equipment. Do you think that there's a way to get it to work for maybe in biology or other places where  there's higher friction. Adam: Yeah, I think the fact that we are in essentially purely in the realm of the virtual is part of what makes the sort of low cost. By all remote team and not asking people to relocate that's what as part of what makes that possible. We do have some cost. We've certainly purchased it quite a bit of computing Hardware over the course of the of the course of the lab and ship those to whoever needs it. But that said, you know, we can do that. I think this model would best apply to something that was more in the realm of knowledge development and not in the realm of you have to get your hands physically on something. Whether that's a DNA sequencer or a hardware development or something of that nature, but on the other hand as certainly as cameras get a more of the quickest and high-speed internet connections get better and certainly we've learned a lot of little tricks over the time. I think we were talking about the start of the call there about. Our use of document cameras is basically screen screen sharing for tablets doesn't work great because you can't see what the users hands are doing. So we learned pretty quickly that you got to invest in document cameras or something like that in order to be able to kind of effectively demo to your teammates. One of the quick or as a kind of a sidebar but related to that is one of the learnings we had in making the distributed team thing work is you do have to get together in person periodically so we can to support early team Summits got it. Making Watercooler Talk and Serendipity  Work with a Distributed Team Ben:  I was actually literally just thinking about that because one of the things that I always hear about. Great research places like whether it's like Bell Labs or DARPA is sort of like the the water cooler talk or the fact that you can just sort of like walk down the hall and like really casually hop into someone's office. And that's the problem with distributed teams that I haven't seen anybody saw well, so so you just do that by bringing everybody together every once in a while. Do you think that generates enough? Adam: Yeah. I mean the to your right like. That problem is very big for us. And there's there's a number of benefits we get from the distributed team, but there's also a number of problems. We haven't solved and so I'm not sure how this would balance against the sort of the spending the same amount of money on a much shorter term thing where people could be more in person because that water cooler talk you get some of with a slack or whatever but. It's just not the same as being co-located. So yeah, the the one of the mitigating things we have that I think is works pretty well as about about quarterly or so. We got everyone together and it's actually kind of fun because because we don't have to go any place in particular. There's no central office. We try to pick a different city each time someplace that's creative and inspiring we tend to like interesting Bohemian Vibe, you know in some cases urban city Center's been in some cases more historic places or more in nature. Ideally someplace close to International Airport that it wouldn't fly into and for really a fraction. I mean offices are so expensive. Yeah, and so our fraction of the price of maintaining an office. Actually fly everyone to some pretty interesting place once a once a quarter and so for a week, we have like a really intense period where we're all together in the same physical space and we're working together. We're also getting the human bonds more that casual conversation and we tend to use that time for like a lot of design sketching and kind of informal hackathons are also some bigger picture. Let's talk about the some of the longer term things lift our gaze a little bit and that helps a lot. Again, it is not as is demonstrably not as good as being co-located all the time, but it gets you I don't know 30 to 40 percent of the way there for, you know a fraction of the cost. So yeah over the over the longer term again, I don't know how that would Stack Up Against. Collocated team, but that's one good thing to getting product review so far. Where to find out more Ben:  I see that we're coming up on time and I want to be very respectful of your time.  I'm going to make sure people know about the website and your Twitter. Is there anything else any other places online that people should learn more about and can switch to learn more about you and what you're working on. Adam: Ya know the the website and the Twitter is basically what we got right now. We've been really quiet in the beginning here not because you know, I'm a big believer in that, you know that science approach of Open Access and you know, it's about sharing what you've learned so that humanity and can build on each other's learnings that said it, you know, it's a lot of work to to package up your ideas, especially when they're weird and fringy like ours are in a way that's consumable to the outside world. So we're trying to do a lot more of that. All right now and I think you're starting to see that little bit to our to our Twitter account where in including publishing some of our back catalogue of internal memos and sketches and things which again very itchy things you got to be really into whatever the particular thing is to find find interest in our internal memo on something as well as taking more time to put together demo videos and longer articles that try to try to capture some of the things we've learned some of the philosophies that we have some of the technologies that were. So yeah, there's she spots a great Thinking About  Extending The Model Ben: So freaking cool.  the. That I'm doing is just putting together the ideas and  trying to almost make a more generic description of what you're doing so  say like, oh, what would this look like if it goes into biology or it goes into something? What would this look like for nanotech? could you do the distributed team  using University resources? Right? Like could you partner with a whole bunch of universities and  have someone in different places and they just like go in and use the lab when you need to I don't know like that's  one Bay action item based on learning about this is like oh, yeah. I think I think it could work. Adam: That sounds great. Well, if you figure something out, I'd love to hear about it. I will absolutely keep you in the loop. Ben: awesome. Cool. Well, I really appreciate this.  I'm just super excited because these new models and  I think that you're really onto something. so I really appreciate you  bringing me in and going into the nitty gritties. Adam: Well, thanks very much. Like I said, it's still an experiment will we get to see? But I feel like I feel like they're more Innovation models than just kind of start up. Corporate R&D lab and Academia. Yeah, and if you believe like I do that technology has the potential to be an enhancement for Humanity then you know Finding finding new ways to innovate and a new types of problems and you new shapes of problems potentially has a pretty high high leverage impact the world.  

How can what we know about attachment and the power of our emotions, create deeper intimacy and resolve conflicts with your partner? In today’s episode you’re going to learn about a particular kind of conversation that you can have with your partner that can change everything. This week, our guest is Sue Johnson, author of  Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love, and the founding director of the International Centre for Excellence in Emotionally Focused Therapy. In Hold Me Tight, Dr. Johnson shares her groundbreaking and remarkably successful program for creating stronger, more secure relationships and she’s going to share some of her wisdom on that topic with you today. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Also, please check out our first three episodes with Sue Johnson – Episode 100: Attraction – How to Sustain It and How to Revive It – with John Gottman and Sue Johnson, Episode 82: How Safety Leads to Better Sex – Sue Johnson, and Episode 27: Breaking Free from Your Patterns of Conflict with Sue Johnson. Sponsors: Along with our amazing listener supporters (you know who you are - thank you!), this week's episode is being sponsored an amazing company with a special offer for you. Our first sponsor today is Audible. Audible has the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet and now, with Audible Originals, the selection has gotten even better with custom content made for members. As a special offer, Audible wants to give you a free 30 day trial and 1 free audiobook. Go to Audible.com/relationship or text RELATIONSHIP to 500500 to get started. Our second sponsor is one of my wife Chloe’s favorite online clothing retailers, ModCloth. With the year wrapping up, it’s time to put a bow on 2018 and...think about new outfits, and the new you! Whether you’re still craving cozy sweaters or you’re ready to start stocking up for spring, ModCloth is your go-to. To get 15 percent off your purchase of $100 or more, go to modcloth.com and enter code ALIVE at checkout. This offer is valid for one time use only and expires on March 3rd, 2019. Resources: Check out Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight Online course Visit Sue Johnson’s website to learn more about her work. Pick up your copy of Sue Johnson’s book, Hold Me Tight: Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love. FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE) Visit www.neilsattin.com/sue3 to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Julie Henderson. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome, to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. We've spoken a lot on this show about attachment, and the way that attachment influences how we operate in our lives and in our relationships. And I wanted to bring back one of the masters of showing us how to use what we know about attachment in relationship to the show, to talk about her new online program, and also to answer some questions from you, because we had some people in the Facebook group chime in with questions for this illustrious guest, who has been with us several times before. Her name is Sue Johnson. You probably know her as the creator of Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy or EFT, which is how we'll refer to it in this episode. She was here in Episode 27, talking about how to break free from patterns of conflict. She was here in Episode 82, talking about how creating safety in your relationship leads to better sex. And we had the double hitter in Episode 100, with her and John Gotman, both talking about how to sustain and revive attraction in your relationship. Neil Sattin: Today, we're going to focus on Hold Me Tight, which is one of Sue's breakthrough books that explains how couples can take this journey, these several conversations that they can have, that lead them into deeper intimacy both in terms of understanding themselves in relationship, also how to work through conflict, forgiveness, sex, you name it, it's there in the book. And this has all been rolled out recently in an online program called Hold Me Tight Online, we're going to talk more about that. Sue also has a book coming out right around the beginning of 2019, on attachment theory in practice. And this is using emotionally focused therapy with individuals and families as well as couples. So, we may touch on that a little bit, and hopefully we'll also get to have Sue back to chat when that book comes out. Neil Sattin: I think that's enough from me. In the meantime, if you want to download a transcript of this episode, please visit neilsattin.com/sue3, so that's S-U-E, and then the number three. Or as always, you can text the word Passion to the number 33444 and follow the instructions to get the transcript for this episode and our other episodes. Neil Sattin: Also, if you are interested in the online program that Sue is going to be talking about, you can visit neilsattin.com/holdmetight, and that will take you to a page where you can find out more about Sue Johnson's Hold me Tight Online program. Sue, thank you so much for sitting through that long introduction and it's such a pleasure to have you here again with us on Relationship Alive. Sue Johnson: Oh, it's always nice to be with you. Neil Sattin: Well, we have a lot to talk about today, and we'll do our best to be succinct. And I also want to encourage you listening that we're not going to go over all the finer points of what we've already talked about, those other episodes are there for you to listen to. But Sue, maybe we could start by just talking about what is emotionally focused therapy, what makes it unique from other ways that people might be used to working with therapists or understanding themselves. Sue Johnson: Emotionally Focused Therapy, as the title suggests, it basically works from the premise that the most powerful thing in a relationship is the emotional music that's playing. The emotional music is what structures a relationship, it's what organizes a relationship, defines, leads the partners to dance in a particular way with each other. So it's sort of dedicated to the idea that, if you want to understand relationships, and if you want to shape your relationship intentionally, whether to repair it or whether to just simply keep it strong, it's very important to understand the emotion that's going on when you dance with your partner. It's important to be able to deal with that emotion in a way that pulls your partner towards you. It's important to understand the impact you have on your partner. So EFT, really has focused on making emotion the couple's and the therapist's friend, and shown therapists and couples how to understand that emotion, how to deal positively with emotion, and how to use emotion to feel more connected with your partner. Sue Johnson: And I think the fact that we know how to use emotion, and we honor emotion in our work with couples, is one of the reasons why... The other special thing about EFT, is that we have a fantastic amount of research on outcome. We have over 20 studies, positive outcome studies, which makes us unique in the field of couple therapy. We're the gold standard of research in couples therapy. We do not have a problem with relapse in our research, which is pretty amazing, really. It always surprises me every time we do a study and we find no evidence of relapse, because all the sort of elephant in the room in couples therapy is that even if you can create change with a couple, you see them in a month's time or in six months time and they've kind of relapsed, they've gone back to being distressed. And that's not the case in our therapy. Sue Johnson: It's unique in that it's based on research, in terms of intervention. We've been doing this for 35 years now. It's unique in the way it deals with the most potent thing in the room, which is emotion. But in the end, the real thing that I think makes EFT different is that it's not based on somebody's idea about what love is or what relationships are all about. It's based on hundreds and hundreds of studies of adult bonding. It's based on a science of love. And so we have a map to what matters in relationships, what goes wrong, and exactly what you have to do to put it right. And that means that the EFT therapist is on target. We expect to create change, we expect our partners to grow, we expect our couples relationships to look not only a little happier, but more secure and be more stable at the end of therapy. Sue Johnson: Obviously I'm biased here, because I'm talking about my own work. I'm talking about 35 years of research and clinical work. But the truth is that we're the only approach to couple and family therapy that's based on a real science of relationships, and that science is attachment and bonding. And I think also, because of that science, in this model... The model suggests that together we're much more powerful than we are individually, and it values and honors connection between people. And so EFT practitioners and ICEEFT, the International Center for Excellence in EFT, which is our not-for-profit organization; basically, the headquarters are here in Canada. We've created communities all over the world. I think we have about 66 right now, affiliated with us to support therapists and health professionals to learn EFT, to get together and support each other, to help each other grow, to help therapists in those communities contribute to relationship education. Sue Johnson: We believe in creating community and I think that's something special about EFT. We do that wherever we go. The latest community that looks like it's going to take off is in Iran. Neil Sattin: Wow. Sue Johnson: And that's fascinating. Because of course, attachment science is about who we are as human beings. Attachment science applies to all of us, regardless of tribe, religion, political persuasion, race, gender. Attachment science, basically, is based on biology, and it tells us who we are as human beings, what our most basic needs are. So that's a bit of a mouthful, but that's what's special about EFT. [laughter] Neil Sattin: Right. Sue, I asked you for the short version. Come on. Sue Johnson: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: Okay, well, that's very hard, Neil. You know how passionate I am about what I do and how successful we are, so how can I... I'm sorry, that's the shortest I can manage, okay? Neil Sattin: No, that's great. And one thing that I really appreciate about the experience that you offer couples who are going through EFT, is that it literally does bring them along on an experience that allows them to feel each other in a different way. To feel each other's emotions in a different context, and to have that experience of getting through situations that are really tender, or challenging, or triggering and get to the other side in a way that is really constructive for their relationship and for their bonding. Sue Johnson: Yes. And we're talking about therapy here, but I know that later in the program we're going to talk about Hold Me Tight. Neil Sattin: Yes. Sue Johnson: The Hold Me Tight educational program is based on my book Hold Me Tight. And I put that relational program together. There's groups all over the countries, and all these communities run by therapists, or even people who aren't therapists. Pastors, anyone can actually buy the program and run the group, a Hold Me Tight group. And what always blows my mind when I go and do one of these groups, I think the biggest one I've ever done was with 100 couples at a time in San Francisco. And what always blows my mind is, people come up to you in the groups... Usually I do them over a weekend. And they go through the conversations that we teach them in the book. And people come up to you and they say things like, "Well, we just came cause we were curious. We don't even have any real huge issues in our relationship. And I thought that our relationship was pretty good, but this group experience has taken our relationship into places I never even knew existed." Sue Johnson: I just had one of these beautiful ones last week. This person sent me an email: "We didn't even know that we could have this kind of closeness and this kind of emotional connection. And we feel like it's changed how we'll be with each other in the future, so thank you." And I think what they're talking about is the profound, profound effect of being able to help people move into profound, bonding, conversations. They are the conversations... This is biologically prepared, powerful, experience. These are the conversations that our nervous system is wired to resonate to. These are the conversations that our brain says, "Yes, this is safe, and this is close, and this is what I want and need. This is what gives me the ability to stand up in the world and be strong." And people resonate with them. They are powerful, powerful experiences. And that's why we don't get relapse. Because you're brain... If you know how to have these bonding conversations, you remember them. They're not just something you put aside and say, "Oh, that was interesting but I don't think about it anymore." Sue Johnson: Your whole nervous system zings with the memory of them. And once you've had these experiences, your brain wants you to go back there. So bonding experiences are... We remember them all our lives. We remember the moments when we were vulnerable and our father turned and held us and said something to us. We remember that all our lives, we hold on to it. We go back to it when we're unhappy and sad. We go back to it with a thrill of joy. These experiences are core to what we need as human beings. So when you help people move into them in therapy or in an educational group, or even online together in the privacy of their own home, there's something very profound about that, and truly growth producing for individuals and for couples about that. And attachment science has shown us how to get there, how to... If we really understand who we are as human beings, of course we can craft powerful, transformative, experiences. Right? And that's the thing that keeps me passionate about this work. I think it keeps... EFT is passionate in general. Neil Sattin: And I want to take our listeners on this journey, a little bit, today. We'll give them a taste of this kind of experience. But before we do, I'm curious about how do you get when someone isn't along for the ride? [chuckle] Neil Sattin: And this is often the case in a couple, right? Where one person hears Sue Johnson on Relationship Alive and says, "We gotta find an EFT therapist, or we gotta buy this book Hold Me Tight." Or whatever it is, right? And the other person is maybe just like, "Yeah, I don't buy that therapy stuff." Or, "Sounds really like unhealthy co-dependence." When people come at it with their negative bias about it, or maybe they're just stonewalling and they're shut down to the influence of their partner at this stage in their relationship. How do you help enlist the partner in actually wanting, or hopefully, inviting them to participate in something like this? Sue Johnson: Oh, well that happens quite a lot. Even when people come for therapy sometimes, they're kind of being dragged there. Neil Sattin: Right. Sue Johnson: You can tell they're waiting... They're in the room with their teeth gritted, and they're... [chuckle] They're just wanting to wait for you to stop talking so they can explain how they've got to leave now, that's how you feel. What we do in EFT is what we always do. We start where people are. It's an incredible mistake from an EFT point of view to start telling people to be different. You just become dangerous when you do that, and they'll protect themselves against you. So, we start where we are. And I can give... For an example, I just did a session with an an Inuit couple, and we started with the fact that to sit and talk to somebody like me is definitely not part of Inuit male culture. And we talked about the fact that from his point of view the very best way of dealing with any problem was to go hunting. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Yeah. Sue Johnson: And I talked about that with him. I didn't explain therapy. That's the wrong channel. He's not interested in getting information from me, he's not even interested in it. So we talked about hunting, and we talked about what that did for him, and how when he hunted he felt competent. And he was out in a bitter environment but he was somehow in charge. And we talked about how strange it was for him to even think about sitting and talking about his emotions with someone like me, or reading the Hold Me Tight book. And as I joined with him, and listened to him, and had him teach me about how he dealt with his emotions, engaged other people, dealt with his needs for closeness, how he dealt with his vulnerability, which is... You can't get out of those things, they are universal, right? Unless you're a lizard or something, you have to be actively engaged with those three things. As we sat and talked about it he became more open. And I said, "Alright, well it sounds like your hunting has saved your life. It sounds like your hunting has really done a lot for you. And I think it's wonderful that you've been able to do that. And you're right, I can't offer you that experience. So would you like to talk to... Are you curious at all? And maybe I can help you feel some of the same kind of sure... " Sue Johnson: Cause he talked in words like "sureness" and "ground under his feet". He used these images. So I said, "Well, maybe I could help you find some of that sense of sureness and ground under your feet, when you're talking to your lady and you see that she's disappointed with you, which I'm hearing is one of the moments where you decide to go hunting." [chuckle] Sue Johnson: And I'd listen to him, he'd listen to me. He experienced me as safe. I wasn't telling him how to be. And so he said, "Yes that would be interesting." And he starts to look me in the eye and he starts to look up at me more, and he starts to... He's suddenly engaged. And we begin. We begin with what would he like to change in his relationship and what is happening to him in those moments in the relationship? We begin with his pain, we begin with the dilemmas that he would like a solution to, and we go slowly because in his culture that's the way it works. You speak slowly and you deal with things at a slow pace. I'm sorry, I'm getting interruption here, I forgot to turn off my phone it'll stop in a minute. Neil Sattin: It's okay. Sue Johnson: So we go slowly. And gradually he comes, he becomes curious. So you start where people are, you validate their uncertainty, their reluctance. If you think about it just in very human terms, the last thing you want to do if you are uncertain and vulnerable, is to go to talk to some strange professional person about that. You're worried about being shamed, you're worried about them telling you that there is something wrong with you, you're worried about what they are going to tell you about their relationship. You don't feel safe. Neil Sattin: Right. And of course what's challenging about these conversations when they happen just between partners in a relationship, is that they are so often very quickly triggering conversations. Sue Johnson: That's right. That's right. The partner hears, "Well, you don't even care enough about our relationship to go and talk to somebody about it, so that just proves what a creep you are." And people get stuck there. But what we are talking about is also another reason why I went to all the trouble to try and create the Hold Me Tight program, educational program. Because I assume that even though couple therapy is becoming a bit more normative, there are a huge number of people who would rather have their feet roasted in an oven than come to couple therapy, right? And they won't come. So I said, "Okay, then maybe they'd come to a group put on by their pastor in their church. Or, maybe they'd come to a group put on in the local hall with 10 other couples." And then it went to, "No, there's a whole bunch of people who won't come to that either." [chuckle] Beause in our culture, we hide our vulnerability or our uncertainty. And so I went, "Okay, well then there is a whole bunch of people, maybe they'd do an online program that's friendly and fun, and they do it in their own homes where they feel safe and private." So then of course that leaves us putting all the energy into creating an online. Sue Johnson: And I think what we are talking about here is the EFT commitment. Well, I'll just make it personal, my commitment. The commitment in this model, and if you are an attachment theorist, is not just to create a very good model, research it, and teach people about it. Which is big enough. We've been doing that for 35 years. The commitment is that as a psychological approach, that we have something to offer society and that we can help society learn to honor and value relationships, shape better relationships. That's what we're trying to do. So therapy, education. I think the main issue here that we're up against, where the person asked the question, is that our society, our culture, has not seen love relationships as something that are understandable, are shapeable, that you can shape, that you can learn to create, that you can nurture deliberately with intention. We don't talk about love like that. We say you fall in, you fall out. And we've basically had a very narrow mistaken view of romantic love relationships, and I think who we are as human beings. So people, they really don't see... They not only, "I'm not sure a therapist can help or a group can help." They really don't see love as something that you can craft and shape and understand. And we're trying to change that. We're trying to have an impact on that. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and I think that's one reason why we resonate, you and I, so much is that that's definitely part of my mission and Relationship Alive's mission in the world as well. To affect that transformation. Because that is definitely a big deal, that there are a lot of people who don't quite understand that you can actually adjust things in ways that are actually helpful. Sadly, I think a lot of people have this story that they know of a couple that tried therapy and it just blew up their marriage or that sort of thing. It's just one positive experience at a time, I think, and the way that that ripples out in to the world. That people get the sense of, "Oh actually we know a lot more about how to do this than we did 20 years ago." And that's why we are having this conversation. Sue Johnson: Right. And that's the message we keep trying to get out there. And you know it is so interesting, the news is always focused on bad news. That's what the news wants to report. But I always say I don't really understand, it's beyond me why at some point, it hasn't been all over the front of the New York Times, that we now have a science of romantic love, of love period. That we now understand it. We have an incredible theory and science about what it's all about, that attachment started off with looking at the bonding between mother and child, and now it's grown. In the last 15 years it's been applied to adult relationships, and it really has so much to say about who we are and what we need to thrive and survive, and how we are relational beings, and how to create good loving relationships. And surely, this is revolutionary. Surely this is at least as important as understanding DNA, I think so. Neil Sattin: It's at least page two, if not the front page. Sue Johnson: I think it's the headline. I think it is much more important than us putting all this energy into going in rockets to the stars. Why don't we learn to become powerful, bonded, connected, cooperating human beings on this planet? Maybe we wouldn't need to go to the stars. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Yeah, I hear ya, I totally hear you there. And this makes me wonder too, because there needs... I want to befriend to that person or persons who decide what goes on the front page of the New York Times. And if I meet that person I'll put in a good word for you, Sue. Sue Johnson: For sure, okay. Neil Sattin: And I am thinking that often what brings light on a particular subject is not how amazing it is, although sometimes that is true. But often it's the controversy that accompanies it. And that makes me wonder for you, your own perspective on what I think some people do still perceive as a controversy between attachment theory in relationships and how important it is to understand the science of bonding, and differentiation, and people learning to stand on their own two feet, and taking responsibility for themselves. And the interplay of those things. Yeah. So go ahead. Sue Johnson: Well, basically I think we in psychology have a huge responsibility here. Because we didn't know enough and so we set those things up. We set up being a strong individual and acknowledging your need for others as dichotomies. We set them up like they're on opposite sides of a long line. Like they're opposites. And of course they're not. That is a mistaken way of looking at it. All the research, and I'm talking about thousands of studies now. All the research since about 1960 points to the fact that the bottomline is the more securely connected to others you are, the more sure you are of yourself, the more... If you like, the more securely connected you are, the more articulated, coherent, and positive, your sense of self is. So, you find out who you are, you differentiate with others, not from others. If you look at the differentiation literature, it almost implies that there is a point in time where you just decide to look in the mirror and define yourself and tell yourself you're great, and that you can self soothe and you can do all this for yourself. This is nonsense, this is not who we are. We never get to that point. Sue Johnson: And the only people who look in the mirror, and totally define themselves and tell themselves they're wonderful and don't need other people, we call them psychopaths. And they are not particularly known for being wonderful members of society or particularly happy. It's a mistake we made because we didn't have the big picture. We just saw a little foot of the elephant that said that our needs, if they are expressed in negative ways, can get us into trouble. Our needs for others can get us into trouble, And indeed, that's true. But that's what we saw. So in family therapy for example, we focused on issues like enmeshment. And that's so interesting because we don't do that when we work with families in EFT. We focus on how people deal with their anxiety, and we help them move into that anxiety and hold it and regulate it, and be able to express that anxiety in ways that are not cohesive to other people, and not demeaning for themselves. And ways that pull the other people close. And they grow, and the relationships grow. That's what we do and we do it all the time. Sue Johnson: We don't find enmeshment or co-dependency particularly useful concepts. We just see it that people are stuck being anxious about the safety of their relationships. And when you're anxious, you either get all upset and try to yell and scream and demand and control things, or you tend to shut down and numb out. And neither of them are useful. They don't get you what you need. I think what I'm saying is, it's a much more integrated and rounded out and complete picture of differentiation and individuation and self soothing that you get from taking the whole picture of attachment and bonding in context. It's the little child who knows the mother will come if he calls, who goes out and believes that he can run down the slide, and who manages his distress if he finds that maybe he falls off the slide. He knows that if he calls his mum will come, he's in a safe universe where he feels loved and held, and his mother has come a number of times. So he's learned that distress is manageable and that he can manage it, and that he can call for another. He's internalized that sense of safety in the world. And he will grow up with a stronger sense of self and a stronger ability to go out into the world and take risks. Sue Johnson: This isn't a theory, there's thousands of studies on this now, this isn't a theory. Securely attached people who know how to trust others and reach for others, and who believe that others will be there for them, consistently have a better self-image, they are more able to take risks, they're more able to face the world, they're more resilient. They're basically, if you like, more differentiated. So this dichotomy is a false one, and it's really about the old theories of human functioning which are kind of in boxes. We've never had the whole picture coming up against the new approach to looking at human beings, which is attachment. And it's really the conflict between the old and the new there, and there doesn't have to be a conflict at all is what I'm saying. Neil Sattin: Right. I appreciate that. That you've, I think, shown very clearly how they include each other. That one comes with the other. And as soon as you split them apart that's when they start, either one, starts to become a little dysfunctional. Sue Johnson: I think on emotional level it really isn't about that. I think on an emotional level, it's about the fact that we all know that if we need another, that introduces a level of vulnerability. And I think, and especially in our society, we don't want to talk about that vulnerability. We want to believe that we're invulnerable. And society says you're supposed to be able to soothe yourself, deal with everything, live life at 50 miles an hour, have everything. So we want to believe we're invulnerable. And what attachment really says is, "That's not the way to real strength." Real strength is to understand where you're vulnerable. Understand the essence of your vulnerability, which is also a beautiful thing in human beings. Understand their need for closeness, the way they be able to tune into others, and you're own need for closeness, and accept that vulnerability. And then know how to deal with it positively. That is really strength, not the denial of vulnerability." Neil Sattin: Yeah. And this makes me think of the Hold Me Tight conversation. Sue Johnson: Yep. Neil Sattin: And I love how in our very first conversation where we talked about changing your conflict patterns, we talked a lot about discovering your demon dialogues, and the first three conversations that are part of the overall Hold Me Tight sequence. Sue Johnson: Yes. Neil Sattin: But then I'm thinking of the fulcrum, really, of Hold Me Tight sitting in the middle. So could we talk for a moment about what is the, 'the', Hold Me Tight conversation that happens and why is that so important? Sue Johnson: Well, what happens in a Hold Me Tight conversation is you have already... If you're helping a couple create one, it doesn't matter whether you're doing it in therapy or in an educational group or in an online program. Before you ask people to go into a Hold Me Tight conversation, you have helped them create a certain safety and sense of trust in their relationship. Because you cannot do a Hold Me Tight conversation while you are vigilant for danger, waiting for a negative pattern, like some sort of... Waiting to deal with an attack from your partner, or just waiting for your partner to let you down. When you're on guard, you can't move into a Hold Me Tight conversation. So you have to have a certain sense of safety first, and we've learned to take you there in EFT, and all the various forms of EFT. But once you have that, really what a Hold Me Tight conversation does is it moves people gradually into the three elements that we know are key to a bonding conversation. Sue Johnson: What defines the safety of a bond in a relationship is how emotionally accessible, responsive, and engaged you are. A-R-E; Accessible, Responsive, and Engaged. And I always relate it to, that the key question in a lot of relationships is, "Are you there for me?" A-R-E. Are you accessible? Are you open? Are you responsive to me? Will you tune into me? Will you move towards me when I call? Am I important enough that you'll tune into me and pay attention to me? Do you care about my needs? Will you engage me? Will you come and meet me on the dance floor? Maybe struggle even if I'm struggling with me? Are you committed to really being with me in a dance, even we are caught in a negative dance? Hold Me Tight conversations really create that emotional openness, that ability to send messages to each other that evoke empathy and caring, help the other person respond, that help us see that vulnerability in our partner and respond with what they need. And help us stay engaged even when that engagement gets hard. And it's really about being able to talk about... In the end, it's a conversation about your fears. And we all have the same fears in relationships, we're all terrified of rejection and abandonment. Sue Johnson: Those things are wired in, it doesn't say... It's nothing to do with personality strength or anything, it's to do with the fact that we're bonding animals, and abandonment and rejection are danger cues to our mammalian brain. They're life threatening, literally. We're born so vulnerable, when our brain is being formed, we know how to take our next breath, that if we are totally rejected or abandoned and left, we die. We know we're at risk. And we never lose that sense. So this vulnerability is wired in, and we're all afraid of rejection and abandonment, so we have these fears. And how we deal with these fears really has a lot to do with how we end up engaging others. And then it's not... But it's not just about how we deal with our fears, it's about whether we can actually know how, or have had the experience of being able to actually pinpoint our needs for connection, comfort, support, caring. Our needs... Just to share our reality to find out how valid it is. That's such a human need. Sue Johnson: To be able to share our needs, pinpoint them, and share them in a way that our partner can hear them and pulls our partner close to us. In the end, a bonding conversation is about sharing your vulnerabilities, your fears, and your needs in a way that helps your partner respond and come close. And helps you and them become accessible, responsive, and engaged on an emotional level. And that is the essence of bonding. And powerful conversations that can change the way you see yourself, the way you see other people, the way you experience your world. Neil Sattin: So this conversation that's about talking about your fears, sharing your needs and your vulnerabilities with your partner. And I love how you... The important thing comes at the end there, which is, in a way that invites your partner closer. Sue Johnson: Yeah. Neil Sattin: And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what allows that to happen versus... 'Cause I think some people might hear that and think, "Oh god, my partner's already so needy and vulnerable. They're needy all the time. So I want them to be more needy? How's that going to work?" Sue Johnson: No, it's not about being more needy. It's about being able to hold on to your emotional balance and own your needs, and then ask for them to be met. And that is very different from what most of us see as the norm in relationships. Which is, "I expect my... " For most of us it's like, "I expect my partner... If my partner loves me, my partner already knows my needs." That's a huge myth in relationships. And what we want to do is we want our partner to respond to those needs without us having to actually show that we need. Because in our society we've been taught that showing that you need is somehow shameful or not okay, or it means you're immature, or whatever it means. It means you're not an independent adult, whatever that is. So most of us don't want to show our needs, and we don't quite know how to talk about them. And so then of course we're massively surprised that the message doesn't come across to our partner. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: It's quite humbling to write these books and do all these training tapes and do all these studies, and then talk to your own partner, or your own children, your own son, and hear yourself doing exactly the same things that we all do, and that couples do. You just hear yourself rather than turning and telling your partner that you are feeling upset by something and you would like to be reassured and comforted, you hear yourself turn and get accusatory or demanding or give advice or start telling your partner they should know better, having been married to you all these years, and read Hold Me Tight a few times. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: They should know better and they should be more supportive right now. Which of course I'm asking for support in a way where I have a hammer in my hand and so my partner just looks at the hammer and backs off. We get stuck in these dances because we're not tuning into our own emotional music or our partners. We don't make it easy often for our partner to see what we really need, and then when we don't get what we need, we're not very good at keeping our emotional balance and dealing with that. We get very agitated and attack or criticize, or we shut down and numb out. And neither of those things work. It's what a good science does, is it tells you how to look at basic phenomena in the world and understand them and how they work. Sue Johnson: And attachment science tells us how we work emotionally, and how relationships work. And giving advice to your partner, telling your partner what to do, explaining to your partner that they're somehow inadequate, [laughter] that doesn't work. That might be more comfortable for us than pausing for a minute, taking a breath, getting our emotional balance and saying, "What is happening with me, why am I getting so agitated here?" Then realizing that we are off balance, we're on our back foot, and we need someone to reassure us or just calm us for a moment. And being able to slow things down... And that's a lot of it actually, that emotion is fast and sometimes it's overwhelming for us and we either numb it out or we get carried away with it. Sue Johnson: Being able to keep your balance and slow things down and say, "Oh, I'm finding that very difficult, getting this letter that is telling me that I'm maybe not going to be considered for this promotion. I was pretending it didn't matter to me but in fact I'm finding it very difficult indeed. And what I really need is to be able to tell my partner somehow I feel kind of small right now because I expected to get an interview immediately, and I expected everyone to be delighted to interview me. And I'm feeling pretty small and I just need some support and reassurance." That's not what occurs to us. We get irritable or... So there's lots of ways not to connect, unfortunately. There's lots. And we do them anyway, even when we sort of know lots of information in our prefrontal cortex, we still get stuck. Neil Sattin: Right, because that part of our brain is turned off when we're in those moments of distress. And I'm wondering, for you, especially because you so graciously pointed out that you may have moments where you don't act quite by the book, What are your... Sue Johnson: Of course. Neil Sattin: What are your best ways, what are your favorite go-tos in your relationship for regrouping when things have gone off the rails a little bit? And I'm looking for your specific ways you bring yourself back into balance, ways you take responsibility for what just happened and corral the interaction back into a more generative space? Sue Johnson: It's interesting because basically I tune into all the things I've learned in EFT, but I can't... That takes a while. So if you ask me what my fast route out of that is, I'm usually able to see the few minutes of interaction, and I'm able to see the negative pattern, that I'm not actually asking for what I need. I'm usually able to see it. I should be able to do this after watching thousands of couples and all kinds of research studies. And so I'm able to see. My vision expands, if you like, from the little tiny piece of interaction that I just had or my feeling of frustration that I'm feeling. I listen to what I just said to my partner and I'm able to hear it in a broader context or see, " Wait a minute, that doesn't work, this is not the dance I want to be in." So I somehow have to have a sense of that. That I'm somehow getting stuck in some sort of narrow place that isn't going where I want to go, which is to feel safer, sounder, more connected, reassured. Somehow I know I'm going in the wrong direction. Sue Johnson: And then one way of thinking about that I've been thinking about lately, and I've written about it in my new book that's coming out in January, which is a professional book. Is I change channel. I change channel from just coping with the emotion and somehow putting it out to my partner in a way that I'm just putting it out and I'm not actually thinking about how to really connect with him with that emotion. But I change channel. And usually what that means is, I change into listening to my emotion differently, and being able to stay with the softer feelings. And I think that's what people do in general when they can do these things. They move from somehow lecturing their partner or complaining or pointing out issues or just saying a few things and hoping their partner are going to guess. Sue Johnson: They move into being able to name their emotions and to say... Or describe them in very simple ways. Like, "I feel small," or, "I feel uncertain right now," or. "for some reason I'm feeling really uncomfortable, maybe even a bit scared, and I don't quite know why." They trust themselves enough, they trust their partner enough, that they can go into those softer feelings. And when they do, when they move into that emotional space, emotion just... It's like the picture evolves. It's like what you're scared of becomes clearer, what you need becomes clearer. And when you turn and change channel into that deeper more open emotion, you give different signals. It's just natural if you stay there. Saying to someone, "For some reason that conversation I had with that person left me feeling really, really, frazzled and uncomfortable, and even a bit scared and I don't know why." That is an invitation to empathy and connection. That's completely different from, "I've had a bad day and you're not helping. I thought you were going to cook supper. And what I hope is underneath all my bad temper, you're going to see that I really need some help and comfort. But unfortunately you don't." [chuckle] "You just see that I'm dangerous and you avoid me." Right? Neil Sattin: Right. Which is exactly what you don't need in that moment. Sue Johnson: Yeah. We are not wired to deal with our vulnerability by ourselves. We can do it if we have to, for short periods of time. But we're not wired, and it's not the most efficient and effective way of dealing with our human vulnerabilities. It's not the strongest or best way to deal with our human vulnerabilities. We're wired, we're social bonding animals. We're wired to connect with other people. We're stronger together. Neil Sattin: What I hear you saying too is that, by changing the channel, you're basically going from the channel that's all about, "I'm having this emotion and I'm expressing it on you." To the channel of, "I'm realizing that I'm having this emotion. And if I wanted to connect with my partner in this moment, and around the fact that this is how I'm feeling, how would I do that?" Which invites maybe a totally different course of action in that moment. Sue Johnson: Yeah. But I don't think it's as deliberate as you're making it sound here. Usually in the first instance, people are being reactive. They're actually coping with softer emotions by shutting down or being very... Just giving facts. Or getting angry and becoming demanding. They're actually... Those are coping devices, really. The real core emotion underneath is not spoken, and so then the partner doesn't see it and doesn't see the need that that core emotion speaks to. There's a lot of conversation about this too. There's all kinds of conversations in our field about how empathy, and how empathy is a skill and you have to teach empathy skills, you have to train for it, I'm sorry, I don't think so. Sue Johnson: Empathy is right into us, it's there. What we have to do is understand what blocks it. And the main thing that blocks it is, I can't be empathic to my partner if I'm too busy dealing with my own overwhelming emotions. If most of the glucose going to my brain is dealing with my own discomfort, fear, uncertainty, I don't have any room to tune into my partner's emotions. I don't think we teach empathy, we model empathy, I guess. In Hold Me Tight groups and in the online program, people will see models of couples interacting with empathy and connection, but in the end, it's really about what blocks it, how you put out your message that blocks your partner's natural empathy, or how you can talk to your partner in a way that evokes that empathy. People are naturally empathetic and responsive, so in the EFT we just understand the blocks. And we help people dance in a way that those blocks don't come up or to see beyond those blocks. I guess that sounds a bit abstract but I think it's clear. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and I think that's getting at the heart of the question that I asked you a few minutes ago, around how do you have the Hold Me Tight conversation? A conversation where you're able to tell your partner about your vulnerabilities and your fears and your needs, without it coming across as being a demand or being needy, that it comes out of that place of being aware of your feelings and seeking, I think you've said it a couple times now, the softer emotions that are underneath the things that are on the surface. Sue Johnson: Yes. And I think the other thing about that is, a big part of EFT is it's a lot easier to do that if you grasp those emotions, and you have the normalized and validated, and you don't see those emotions as somehow proof that you are somehow not strong enough. Or that you're somehow not mature enough or that there is something wrong with you. A lot of EFT is validating, honoring, and holding people's emotions. Walking, setting up experiences where they walk into those emotions gradually, and at the same time are safe in that experience because they are given a framework where those emotions are understood, honored, validated. And our society hasn't been very good at that. We don't teach kids in schools about their own emotions or about the impact they have on other kids, and how to have safe conversations. We don't teach that. It's insane, we teach kids trigonometry but we don't teach kids what I just said, and so that's nutty. There are thousands of couples out there in the world. Sue Johnson: I'm just going to give a talk, public talk, in a few weeks in Toronto in December, called "What Every Couple Needs To Know", at the big Museum in Toronto. And I really believe that this stuff is what every couple needs to know. There are thousands of couples out there who have no way of understanding the dances they're caught in. No way of understanding even their own needs. You say to people, "What do you need?" And they say, "I need her to stop nagging." Or, "I need the conflicts to stop." Or, "I need... " These kinds of... "I need my partner to have more communication skills." These are huge. They don't know how to really go to the core of what they need and what they want. And we have taught people to be ashamed of them. So, a big part of EFT is we help people understand their own emotional lives, their own... The terrain of emotion. And who we are as bonding animals. And when you can accept those needs, when you can accept that we're all human beings who need comfort and security, and life is so huge. We all need to put our hand out in the dark and call, "Are you there?" And have a reassuring hand come and meet ours. And when we can do that, we can deal with the dark. And that's just the human condition. Neil Sattin: That makes me think too that that must be how EFT approaches couples where one partner or another has a deeper trauma history. Sue Johnson: Absolutely, that's right. And I think EFT is particularly suited to helping traumatized couples, traumatized individuals. Well, in fact what's interesting is we're talking about Hold Me Tight educational groups, that's only been around for a while. And this is what happens in EFT. Things have sprung up. There's now a Hold Me Tight educational group called, "Hold Me Tight, Let Me Go", for teens and their parents. There's a Hold Me Tight educational group based on the Christian version of the book Hold Me Tight, which is called, "Created For Connection." Which looks at how Christian beliefs fit in with attachment science and the link between those two. There's a Hold Me Tight educational group for in medical settings, which is very interesting. The biggest one we've just done, which we've just got a huge grant for, in Canada, is the Big Heart Institute back in Ottawa has asked us to adapt the program, and I hope one day we'll adapt the online program for this, too. Adapt the program for couples we're dealing with where one person's had a heart attack, because the research says that the best predictor of whether you'll have another heart attack, is not the severity of the first heart attack or even the damage done to the heart, it's the quality of your most intimate relationship. Sue Johnson: And so the cardiologist actually read this research. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: And said, "Oh, we're a relational human beings." "Ah, relationships really impact health." "Ah, we better get this crazy lady in and she can adapt her educational program to cardiac patients." So we did that. It's called, "Healing Hearts Together", and the preliminary data on it says it's great, really works. I ran a few of those groups and they blew my mind, they were wonderful. So everybody needs to know this, and the uses of creating this knowledge about what matters in love and how love works and how to repair it and keep it, has infinite, infinite usefulness. Whether it's in therapy, in educational groups, and for sure, we've got to take this stuff online. The Hold Me Tight Online was a huge project. Took us four years and oceans of grief and work. And there was a number of times when I really thought, "What on earth am I doing this for?" But you have to do it. If you feel that we all need this, and that we... This is sort of very basic information for us thriving and surviving. We have to make it accessible for people and so many things are online now. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And having gone through the course online, I can say that it's clear how much effort that you put in and how you tried to address different learning styles and give people lots of different examples, and make it entertaining at times. Sue Johnson: Yes. [chuckle] We even have cartoons, which at first, when my colleague said, "We need a cartoon couple." I said, "No, no, no, no, no." But yeah, we've got cartoons and we've got music and we've got images, and we've got me giving chats and other experts giving chats, and we've got exercises that we tailor to you. It was a lot of work. But hopefully, the couples... The idea is that it's accessible to everybody, then. What I would like, which is a complete silly dream, but... Oh no, it's actually not a silly dream. What I would like is for our western governments, the government of Canada, for example, to say, "Okay, Sue, we'd like to make the Hold Me Tight Online educational program available to all couples in Canada, or everyone who's just gotten married or something. We'll make it incredibly cheap. Will you help us do that?" And I say, "Of course." And I was just going to tell you that's impossible, and I forgot that actually a much simpler version, not at all the online program we've got now, but a much, much simpler, pared-down version. The government of Finland, has actually just helped my Finnish colleagues make their version of Hold Me Tight Online, a very simple version of it, available to almost all Finnish couples, which blows my mind. Neil Sattin: Wow. Sue Johnson: But they've done that because they believe that stable loving relationships and stable loving families, create stable, caring, positive, thriving societies. And of course, they're right about that. That's the way to do it. So. Yeah. Why am I talking about this? I don't know. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: Hold Me Tight online was a lot of work, but at this point I'm quite proud of it. And I'm glad that you enjoyed it and that you found it very... We wanted to make it fun. We made it for the people who would never dream of coming for therapy or even reading my book or even going to a group. So we thought, "Well then, we better make it fun because these people are used to having fun online." We did our best. I think it's pretty good. It's just like everything we do, we're very pleased with it for about a year and then we find ways that we could have done it better. This is kind of classic. I know that I'm going to feel the same way about my book, my therapy book that is coming out in January, which is EFT For Individuals, Couples, and Families. But it's really a book all about attachment. I know that I'll be pleased for about a week, and then I'll read it, and by next Summer I'll have found all the ways that I could have done it better. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Well, fortunately, that ensures new editions or new books or new versions, and new conversations for the podcast. So I feel totally fine about that, that you're... Sue Johnson: Do you? Neil Sattin: Yeah. That you'll be constantly improving. Sue, you've been so generous with your time and wisdom. And I do want to ensure that everyone has the links so that... They will be, of course, available on the page for this episode which is Neilsattin.com/Sue3. And then you can also, if you're interested in the Hold Me Tight online program, you can visit Neilsattin.com/holdmetight and that will take you to a page where you can find out more about the program. Sue, I'm wondering if we can... I have just two quick questions for you. Sue Johnson: Sure. Neil Sattin: They can be quick or not, it's up to you, But if they're quick it's totally fine. The first was another take on when I asked you what are your favorite ways of coming back when your conversations have gone off the rails, and you brought up changing the channel. Often, because we're such astute observers of our partners, it happens that we notice that our partner is totally triggered about something. Sue Johnson: Yes. Neil Sattin: And so I'm wondering, when you notice, "Oh, my husband is... He's triggered right now." What do you like to do in order to help bridge the gap in that moment? Sue Johnson: That's a nice question. I think the best guide to this is what we naturally do with beings where the vulnerability is not so hidden, I.e. Children and dogs. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: If you watch people with little kids, or you watch people with dogs, which I find fascinating, okay? They naturally, if they see vulnerability, if you watch them they slow down, they lower their voice, they lean in, they give more attention, they give a focused kind of attention, they might ask a question or they might reach with their hand. You know? It's fascinating to me... Let's just take dogs, if you watch dogs. I remember sitting in a Starbucks, I can't remember why I was doing this, years ago. And watching all the people look on their cellphones, and all the people completely avoid contact, and was thinking, "Goodness, me. This society, we're becoming lonelier and lonelier." And then I sat and watched and there was a line of dogs tied up outside the Starbucks on these posts, right? So they're all sitting there, it's a Saturday morning. So you watch all these people come out with their... They've looked to their phones the whole time, they're carrying things, and they're busy and distracted, and it's a busy street so they've got to stop, right? And they look down, and it was so fascinating to me how many people looked down, and if the dog looked back, particularly if the dog was kind of small and didn't look very happy. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: These distracted, distant, disconnected people would... I couldn't hear what they were saying, which I think helped actually, because... You would think. I remember watching this man who put his coffee down, and leaned down, and talked to this dog. He was obviously comforting the dog, you know? Like, "Oh you're waiting for your master, you don't want to be here." Then he reached out and patted the dog on the head. He gave the dog more focused, soft, slow, connected attention than he'd given anyone in the Starbucks for whenever, right? Neil Sattin: Right. Sue Johnson: So we know how to do it. It's a question of tuning in and giving it. Unfortunately, sometimes we're not very balanced so we'll turn and say, "What the hell's wrong with you?" [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Right, right. That's why I love the way that you put it. Cause I'm so used to saying you see your partner and they're triggered, but I love your articulation of when you see vulnerability. Because that is what you're really seeing in that moment, is your partner in a vulnerable space. And if you know that your partner is the kind of person who, when they're vulnerable, needs space, is there an adjustment that you make to how you would respond to that? Would you just give them space and then revisit? Or is there a way to bring it out that doesn't... Sue Johnson: No, I'd reach and then give them space. Neil Sattin: Got it. Sue Johnson: I'd reach to say, "I'm saying I am accessible, I am here, I see you. But I'm not demanding that you turn to me right now. I see you, and I see that sometimes you need time when you're in this space. So I'm just seeing you and I'm here." That's a very powerful thing to do. Good parenting is that. Good parenting, parents know their kids style. And they do that. They say, I've seen people do it in therapy when they start to really mend their relationship. They say, "Well, I understand this is hard for you to talk about, and I see that and maybe when I was your age I couldn't talk about these things at all, and I just want you to know that I'm going to be here. And I see how hard it is for you and I want to help you. And I'm right here when you want to turn around and talk." This is amazing. This is an amazing invitation, right? And people can do that, they really can. They can offer each other that kind of space and that kind of empathy. I take account of your style of response. But for me to do that, I have to be feeling pretty safe. Otherwise, I'm busy dealing with my emotions about the fact that you don't talk about anything and that leaves me alone. And if I'm stuck there, I'm not going to be able to accommodate you. I have to have my own balance, if I'm dancing, before I can accommodate to you in that way. Neil Sattin: Right, right. Yeah. And so that brings us full circle to how we take care of ourselves when we recognize that we're in distress and take responsibility for how we're feeling in the moment. Sue Johnson: Yes. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Sue Johnson: And I think a lot of it is, many of us are dealing with relationships which happen very fast in a busy world where there's lots of demands on us. And I think the central issue is that many of us don't even know what's possible. We've never even seen the kind of relationships that we talk about in these programs, and in EFT and therapy, where people can diffuse conflicts, stand together against a negative pattern, find a way to be accessible, responsive and engaged. People haven't even seen it. They've see a bit of it in Hollywood, which is usually infused with sexual infatuation. They've seen little moments of it, which I think is great. Okay? I think that's great. Right? One of the ways movies and books have always civilized us, right? In some ways. But they don't really know how to get there. So, lots of times we're trying to create relationships where we really don't have a model of what's possible at all. And that's why I hope therapists who like EFT will maybe think about running Hold Me Tight groups, will maybe try the online program themselves and tell their clients about it, or tell their communities about it. Because so many of us don't even know what is possible in our relationships. Sue Johnson: We haven't even seen that these conversations can happen. And when we know that, the world changes. Our sense of what is possible with other people changes. This is a huge thing. Right? Neil Sattin: It's true. And I've definitely seen that in my own connection as well, as it's evolved through our patterns of conflict and beyond, which has been nice. And your work has definitely been helpful for us as well, so I'm so appreciative of that. Sue, my last question... And you talk about dance a lot, and... Sue Johnson: Yeah. Well, that's because I dance Tango, that's why. Neil Sattin: Yes. And I think we've even talked about it on the show before cause my partner, Chloe, and I do dance as well. But I'm wondering, for someone who's listening and they're like, "This all sounds great and amazing and I want to try, and it also sounds a little heavy, a little intense." What do you recommend for people in terms of keeping things light? And are there actual ways that you incorporate lightness and play and fun into how you work with people? Sue Johnson: Well, sure. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Sue Johnson: Well, I do couples therapy because it's more fun and more interesting than anything else, personally. And when I run Hold Me Tight groups, I think it's fun. I certainly hope our online program's fun or we've completely failed. It doesn't have to be heavy all the time. Learning can be fun, it can be intriguing, fascinating, surprising... Neil Sattin: But you know, when couples feel like, "Ah, we're so stuck and it's going to take all this work." And there's some truth to that, right? It's going to take some work for them to shift their patterns. And yet, yeah, I think it's more about... Sue Johnson: Discovery. If you're feeling... I think it all boils down to a sense of safety. My sense is couples come to see me and in the first few sessions it's not fun at all, because they're scared and they're worried. When they start to relax with me and we can play, and we can look at the dances they have, and we can look at how normal they are, and we can play with them and share them, and we can look at how stuck they got, and see how silly it is in some ways. EFT is not always heavy at all. We have a lot of laughter. And people not launch themselves into these huge heavy conversations. They're very gradual, and we make safety as they do it. So, yeah, it's not all heavy. It's you take it at your own speed. And for sure, people find it intriguing. Sue Johnson: The dropout rate in EFT is really low. In our studies and clinically in practice, the way people report to us, people stay. Sure it's heavy sometimes, but people stay because they're learning so much. And it's an amazing journey, they're learning about themselves, they're learning about their partner. And there's a huge amount of fun in there. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and you're reminding me that some of... Honestly, some of the funniest moments, I think, in my relationship, are when we... After we've recognized a pattern, which is one of the early things that you suggest couples do, is how they identify what are the patterns that they typically end up in patterns of conflict. And then when you're able to see it happening, and you're able to have those moments of like, "Look at us, we're doing that thing, that... " Sue Johnson: Yes. Neil Sattin: "We're just doing it again." And it can be hysterical. Chloe and I will be in the middle of it. And we'll just break out laughing, from a place of pretty intense conflict when we have those moments of, "Oh yeah, that's us just doing that thing again." Sue Johnson: That's right. It's like I can think of a dance analogy. You can be dancing with a partner who you trust a lot. And the partner tries a very tricky move. I can think of one where my teacher who's a fantastic dancer tried a very tricky move. And I sort of got half way through the move, where he was going, and then I got my high heel caught in the hem of my pants. [chuckle] Sue Johnson: And as we both nearly fell down flat. Okay, we nearly

My Guest this week is Malcolm Handley, General Partner and Founder of Strong Atomics. The topic of this conversation is Fusion power - how it’s funded now, why we don’t have it yet, and how he’s working on making it a reality. We touch on funding long-term bets in general, incentives inside of venture capital, and more. Show Notes Strong Atomics Malcolm on Twitter (@malcolmredheron) Fusion Never Plot Fusion Z-Pinch Experiment. ARPA-e Alpha Program ITER - International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor. NIF - National Ignition Facility ARPA-e Office of Fusion Energy Science Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air Transcript  [00:00:00] This podcast I talk to Malcolm Hanley about Fusion funding long-term bets incentives inside of venture capital and more Malcolm is the managing partner of strong atomics. Strong atomics is a venture capital firm that exists solely in a portfolio of fusion projects that have been selected based on their potential to create net positive energy and lead to plausible reactors before starting strong atomics. Malcolm was the first employee at the software company aside. I love talking to Malcolm because he's somewhat of a fanatic about making Fusion Energy reality. But at the same time he remains an intense pragmatist in some ways. He's even more pragmatic than I am. So here in the podcast. He thinks deeply about everything he does. So we go very deep on some topics. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did.   Intro   Ben: Malcolm would you would you introduce yourself? Malcolm: Sure. So I'm Malcolm heavily. I found in strong [00:01:00] atomics after 17 years is software engineer because I. I was looking for the most important thing that I could work on and concluded that that was kind of change that was before democracy fell off the rails. And so it was the obvious most important thing. So my thesis is that climate change is a real problem and the. Typical ways that we are addressing it or insufficient, for example, even if you ignore the climate deniers most people seem to be of the opinion that we're on track that Renewables and storage for renewable energy are going to save the day and my fear as I looked into this more deeply is that this is not sufficient that we are in fact not on track and that we need to be looking at more possible ways of responding to [00:02:00] climate change. So I found an area nuclear fusion that is that it has the potential to help us solve climate change and that in my opinion is underinvested. So I started strong atomics to invest in those companies and to support them in other ways. And that's what I'm doing these days   What did founding strong atomics entail?   Ben: and he did a little bit more into what founding strong atomics and Tails. You can just snap your fingers and bring it into being Malcolm:  I almost did because it was extremely lucky but in general Silicon Valley has a pretty well worn model for how people start startups and I think even the people getting out of college actually no a surprising amount about how to start a company and when you look at Fusion companies getting started you realize just how much knowledge we take for granted in Silicon Valley. On the other hand as far as I can tell the way [00:03:00] that every VC fund get started in the way that everyone becomes a VC is unique. It was really one story for how you start a company and there are n stories for how funds get started. So in my case, I wasn't sure that I wanted to start a fund more precisely. It hadn't even occurred to me that I would start a fund. I was a software engineer and looking for what I could do about climate change. I'm just assuming that I was looking for a technical way to be involved with that. I was worried because my only technical skill is software engineering but I figured hey, but software you can do many things. There must be a way that a software engineer can help. So I made my way to The arpa-e Summit in DC at the beginning of 2016 and went around and talked to a whole lot of people if they're different boots about what they were doing and. My questions for myself was does what you're doing matter. My question for them was how might a software engineer help [00:04:00] and to a first approximation even at a wonderful conference like the arpa-e summit. I think you'd have to say mostly these things are not moving the needle mostly in my terminology. They don't matter and it really wasn't clear how a software engineer could help and then because I was curious because I'd read many things about. Companies claiming that they were working on fusion and they were closed and made an effort to hit every Fusion Booth. I could find and a one of those booths. I said, I'm a software engineer. What can I do and they said well the next time this guy comes to San Francisco, you should organize an audience and he'll give a talk and won't that be fun? So that guy is now one of my science advisors, but that was. The first part of my relationship there. So he came I organized the talk we had dinner beforehand and is like how close is fusion and he says well, it could be 10 years away, but it's actually [00:05:00] in infinite time away. And the problem is we're not funded. So then you say well how much money do you need and it turns out to be a few million dollars you say that's really really dumb here. I am in Silicon Valley my. The company I work for is sauna making collaboration software for task management just raised 50 million dollars in here. These people are credibly trying to save the world and they're short two million dollars. Maybe I can find some rich people who can put some money in the answer was yes, I could find a rich person who is willing to put some money in and Rich. By and large unless they're really excited about the company do not want to put money in directly. They don't want that kind of relationship. So you work through all the mechanics here and you run as you can convince people to put money in but you need to [00:06:00] grease the wheels by making a normal VC structure in this case. And then before, you know it you wind up as the managing partner of a one-person VC fund but single investor. And then you say well, I've had a surprising amount of impact doing this. What should I do? Do I keep looking for that technical way to be involved and my conclusion was there's really no contest here. I could go back to my quest of how how is the software engineer? Can I help climate change or look? I've already put four million dollars into Fusion four million dollars of other people's money, but companies have four million dollars that. Born kinda half without me and several of them are doing way better making way more progress than they would have without me. And now I have all these contacts in the fusion industry. I can build a team of advisers. I'm in all of these internal discussions about [00:07:00] what's coming next in federal funding programs, and I'm invited to conferences and that kind of thing and it was. So obvious that the way to keep making an impact on climate change was to keep doing what I was doing. So that ends with my now taking the steps towards being what I call a real VC. Someone who goes out and really raises the next Fund in a much more normal way with multiple LPS and a much more significant amount of money. Ben: Got it Malcolm: Ray's right now in the baby if you see they VVC or. Ben: So you invest in babies? Malcolm: No. No, I'm the baby. That's and Tina that raises a whole bunch of questions.   Why did you structure the venture as a vc firm?   Ben: So one is why did you decide to structure it as a VC fund instead of say a philanthropic organization if you just wanted to redirect money. Malcolm: The short answer is [00:08:00] because I can get my hands on way more money. If this is a for-profit Enterprise, so my all P was very generous and trusting and also very open-minded and part of the four million dollars that I mentioned before actually was a donation. It was a gift to the University of Washington to support Fusion research there because. That particular project that we wanted to support was still an academic project for the others. The companies were our for-profit companies and there's just no good case to say to someone who has money. You should give money to support these for-profit things in a way that gets you know profit if they actually work you can tap a lot more money if you offer people a profit motive. And I think you create a stronger chain of [00:09:00] incentives. They are encouraged to give more money. I am more encouraged to look after that money. I have a share of the profit with my fund if it ever makes a profit and and finally you get a more traditional control structure. I don't yet have. At an actual Equity stake in these companies because we did a convertible note or a y combinator safe, but I sit on the board of the companies. They all know that my investment will turn into voting equity in the future and it's just a much cleaner setup. So I think there were no downsides to doing it this way and a lot of upsets the bigger question, which I. Contemplated the beginning of all of this was even for for-profit money is a fund the right vehicle or other other [00:10:00] options that I should pursue. That's something that I spent a lot of time looking into it after creating the first fund what other options are there, right? (Alternate structures) So one approach is you say, well there are four or however many companies here. I like what they're doing, but they're. Really annoyingly small by Annoying. I mean they are inefficient in terms of how they spend their money and their potentially leaving Innovation on the table. So the companies that I've invested in are all about four people maybe six, but that kind of size and they have one or two main science people in each company those. Interacts with other scientists a few times a year a conferences those scientists at the conference's are of course not completely trust to love each other. They are all competitors working at different companies [00:11:00] each convinced that they're going to crush the other guys and that's the extent of their scientific collaboration unless they have a couple of academics universities that they're close to. And when I think about my background in software, I never worked in a team that small I had many more people that I could turn to for help whenever it was stuck. So one thing we looked at seriously was starting a company that would raise a bunch of money and buy these four or so companies. We would merge them all into one. This is called the Roll-Up. And we'd move everyone to one place. They would certainly have a much larger pool of collaborators. They would also have the union of all of their equipment right? So now when someone had a new idea for an approach to Fusion, they wanted to test instead of needing to contemplate leaving [00:12:00] their job starting a new company raising money buying. Or scrounging a whole lot of equipment and then yours later doing the experiment. They could practically go in on the weekend and do the experiment after validating their ideas with their co-workers. Right? I think there's a lot to recommend this and it was seductive enough that I went a long way down this path in the end of the the complexities killed. And made it seem like something that wasn't actually a good idea when you netted everything.   Complexities of Roll-Ups   Ben: Can you go into a little more detail about that? Yeah, which complexities and how did you decided it was not a good idea, Malcolm: right? So it's much harder to raise money for because you're doing something much less traditional as I guess that's not necessarily harder in some ways. If you come to the market with a radically new idea. You're so novel that you. [00:13:00] Breakthrough everyone's filters and maybe you have an easier time raising money seen it go both witness. Yeah, and my existing investors was not enthused about this. So I would have certainly had to work past some skepticism there on top of that you have to convince all of these companies to sell to you and that looks really hard. The CEO of one of the companies told me look I'm a lone cowboy. I think he said and made it very clear that he was used to executing independently and didn't want to be part of larger company. Potentially. I could have bought his independence by offering him enough money that he couldn't refuse but that's not really the way you want to build your team. Other companies were enthusiastic but it would getting [00:14:00] the majority of these benefits would have required people moving. Yeah people and companies and these companies have connections to universities. Of course, the people have families they have whole lives. It wasn't clear that people wanted to move. It really looked as if everyone was really excited about a roll up that happened where they lived. Yeah on top of that. These people are cordial to each other at conferences. And at least think they wanted to collaborate more but they're also pretty Fierce competitors. So you also had to believe that when these people were all brought into one company. They would actually collaborate rather than get into status contests and fights and that kind of thing. Not to mention all the more subtle ways in which they might fail to collaborate and it really big wake-up call for me was when the [00:15:00] two technical co-founders one of my companies started fighting these people had known each other for decades. They were best men at each other's weddings. They had chosen to found the company together. No asshole VC had bought two companies include them together and force them to work together. This was their choice. And it got to the point where still they could not work together. I went down I spent two days at the company watching the team Dynamic interviewing each person at the company one-on-one and made the recommendation that the company fire one of the founders. So you look at that and then you're like, well these people say they're happy to cooperate with everyone at these other companies to I really believe that so. Huge caution, I think yeah other people cautioned me that the [00:16:00] competitive factors would be reduced. So I had one guy who went through YC not doing Fusion just a regular software startup say look when we were doing way see we were in the same year as Dropbox and it was clear the Dropbox was crash. And if we had known that actually we were part of some big roll up and we were going to share and dropboxes success. We would not have worked as hard on our little company as we did wanting to match their success. Yeah. (Holding companies and how they worked) So eventually I looked at the third model the first model being the VC fund at the second model being the roll up. The third model was a holding company and this is meant to be a middle ground where we would have a company that would invest in the various Fusion companies that we wanted to support. They would not be combined. I [00:17:00] guess. I'm neglected to mention several of the other advantages that we would have gotten with the holding with the roll up in addition to a unified team of scientists. We would have had the pool of Hardware that I did mention right we would also been able to have other infrastructure teams. For example, we could have had a software team that worked on modeling or simulation software that all of the different Fusion teams could use so the idea with the holding company was we would still be able to centralize things that made sense centralist right things where you could benefit by sharing. But we would have these companies remaining as separate companies. They could raise money from other people if they wanted to or we couldn't provide the money when they needed it. They wouldn't have to move they would be independent companies. But the first thing that we would do is say a condition of taking money from us is [00:18:00] you will give all of your experimental data and enough. Of the conditions of your experiments to us so that we can run our own simulations using our own software right and match them against your experimental results. We would of course encourage them to use our modeling software as well. But that's harder to force. So the idea was software is something that really can be shared right? We would encourage them to share it and by having access to their. Their detailed data, we would be able to validate what they were doing and being much more informed investors than others so we could make better investment decisions. We could tell who was really succeeding and who might be struggling or failing so we couldn't make better investment decisions than other investors, which would help us. It would also help the companies [00:19:00] because our decision to investor to continue to invest would be a more credible signal of success or the value creation and they could use that to to shop it around to raise money from other people. So to the benefits there would be still internalizing some of the externalities while keeping people with their independence, but allowing resource sharing and better signal. For further support raise so much more flexible sharing sharing where it made sense and not where it didn't and then in an optional way later later on we might have said, well, it turns out that the number of our companies need the same physical equipment may be pulsed Power Equipment, which is a large part of the expense for these companies so we could have bought that. Set it up somewhere and then said you're welcome to come and do experiments on our facility and you could imagine that over time. They would decide that the [00:20:00] facility was valuable enough that someone from the company moved there. And then maybe they do all their new hiring their and the company's gradually co-locate but in a much more gradual much smoother way than. In the roll-up where we envision seeing a condition of this purchase is you move right having just talked up the the holding company's so much. Obviously I decided I didn't like that either because that's not what I'm doing one of the death blows for the holding company was doing a science review of the four companies that I've invested in so far. Plus several other approaches by this point I built a team of four science advisors. We put all of these seven or so approaches past the advisors for basic feedback is this thing actually a terrible [00:21:00] idea and we haven't realized yet or what are the challenges or is this an amazing thing that we should be backing and the feedback that we got was that one of them was? And should definitely be back right for a bunch of them. The feedback was waiting to see another one. Was it an even more precarious position because of execution problems to more that received favorable feedback did not and still do not have companies associated with them but feedback was positive enough that we. Pay people to work on them inside basically shall companies so that we own the IP if something comes to that but what did we not so sorry just to interrupt right now. They're in universities right now. They're dormant. They're dormant. Okay a common theme in Fusion is someone does some [00:22:00] work gets some promising results and then for one reason or another fails to get. Funding to continue that it sometimes the story is then the Republicans got into power and cut the funding or they got less funding than they wanted. So they bought worse equipment and they wanted and therefore they weren't able to achieve the conditions that they wanted but they still did the experiment because of the bad conditions that got bad results. So they definitely didn't get any more money from that a whole host of reasons. The promising work doesn't continue. Yeah, so in both of those cases there are promising results and no one is working on this got it.  Yeah another sad Fusion story. So so bunch of things came out of that science review, but what did not come out of it was oh yes here. We have a pool of for companies that are all [00:23:00] strong and deserve. And have enough overlap that that some sort of sharing model makes sense on top of that. It was becoming clear that even a holding company was sufficiently novel pitch as to make my life even more difficult for fundraising. Yeah, so it just. Didn't look like something that was worth taking that fundraising hit for given that the benefits for seeming to be more theoretical or in the future than then in the present     Alternate Structures   Ben: So with a VC fund to my understanding you are sitting on already given capital and your job is. To deploy it I'm going to use air quotes as [00:24:00] quickly as possible within a   certain limit of responsibility. Would you ever consider something where you do something there there these private Equity firms that will have a thesis and the look for companies that meet these a certain set of conditions and only then. Will they basically exert a call option on promised money and invest that and it seems like that's that's another structure that you could have gone with. Did you consider anything like that at all? Malcolm: Right edit your description of a VC fund and yes, we may I please one is you're not sitting on a pool of money that is in your bank account. Some of the money is in your bank account, but there's a distinction between the money that is committed and the money that is raised. [00:25:00] So you might say I want to have a VC fund that has 40 million dollars over its lifespan if you wait until you have raised. All 40 million then the deals that you'd identified at the beginning that you are using to support the raising of your fund will likely be gone. It can take a long time to raise even a moderately sized fund. Yeah, unless you're one of those individuals leading very Charmed lives where in weeks they raise their entire fun, but for the rest of us the fundraising process can be 6-12 months that kind of thing so, You have a first close where you've identified or where you have enough and money committed to justify saying this fund is definitely happening. Right [00:26:00] we're going to do this even then maybe your first clothes is 15 million dollars. You don't need all 15 million dollars to start making your Investments right now. So you have 15 million dollars. Right, but over the life of the fund you do Capital calls when your account is too low to keep doing what you're trying to do. Right? So the LPS get penalized heavily if they fail to produce the money that they have committed within a certain amount of time after you're calling it got it you could in principle call all the money at the beginning but you damage your friends metrics if you do that. Got it. Funds are. Graded through their internal rate of return and I remember exactly how this is calculated. (Internal Rate of Return (IRR) ) But part of that is how long you actually have the money. So if you got the money closer to when you're going to spend it or invest it, you look better got it. So that's the first edit. The [00:27:00] second edit is I wouldn't say my job is to deploy the money as quickly as possible. Mmm. My job is to deploy the money for the best results possible. I measure results in terms of some combination of profit to my investors and impact on the world. Right because they think Fusion is well aligned to do both. I think these prophets are pretty consistent. So I'm not trying to spend my money as quickly as I can. I'm trying to support a large enough portfolio of companies for as long as I can. Large portfolio of companies because they want to mitigate the risk. I want to include as many companies in the portfolio. So that promising ideas do not go unsupported. That's the impact and also so that the company that succeeds if when ultimately does is in my fund so [00:28:00] that my investors get a return got it and then I want to support them for as long as I can because the longer I'm supporting them. The larger return my investors get rather than that later value creation accruing to later investors. Got it. Also.  longer. I can support them the greater the chance that the company has of surviving for long enough and making enough progress that it can then raise from other investors investors who probably will know less about fusion and be less friendly to Fusion.   Why not start the Bell Labs of Fusion   Ben:  okay, there's there's a bunch of bunch of bookmarks. I want to put there the first thing is one more question about possible structures. So a problem that you brought up consistently is the  efficiency gains from having people all in the same place all sharing equipment all sharing code all sharing knowledge that. Does not happen [00:29:00] when you have a bunch of companies, why are you so focused on sort of starting with companies as or groups of people who have already formed companies as as the basic building blocks. So for example, you could imagine a world where you create  the Bell Labs a fusion where you literally just start from scratch. Hire people and put them all in the same place with a bunch of equipment and aren't working together without having to pull people  who have already demonstrated their willingness to go out on their own and start companies. Malcolm: Yeah, great question and the bell Labs diffusion is an analogy of it gets thrown around a fair amount including to describe what I was trying to do. Although I agree. It's slightly. I think there are two answers to that question. One is [00:30:00] by the point that I was really considering this. I already had invested in for companies. So partly the answer is path dependence got it and partly the answer. Is that by the time I was clearly seeing the problems with the rollout especially but also the holding company it was. It didn't seem as if just starting a company from scratch was really going to change that some people make the argument that actually the best plasma physicists aren't in companies at the moment. They are in Academia or National Labs because the best ones don't want to risk their reputation and a great job for a two-bit company that's going to have trouble. And therefore the if you could come along and create a credible [00:31:00] proposition of the legitimate company that will do well fundraising and prove that it will do well at fundraising by endowing it with a lot of money in the beginning you may then hire those people right? I know some people who are convinced that this is possible. You still have to deal. The asshole complex that is common with infusion. These people have had their entire careers which are long because they are all old or they're in PHD programs basically to become quite sure of the approach that they want to take for Fusion, right? So it was difficult to find a team of four. Experienced knowledgeable and open-minded advisors for my science board and not all of those people are able to be hired for any price. I think if you want to actually stock a [00:32:00] company with these people you need more people right and they all need to be able to be hired and you still need to convince them to move and you still need to convince them to work on each other's projects. So it I think it's an interesting idea. I have real concerned about the lack of competition that you would get about all the areas that I just mentioned and on top of that when I looked into the situation around the software sharing and the hardware sharing more closely. I became less convinced that this is actually available. What's that on the software side many people don't even believe that it's possible in a reasonable time frame to create simulation software that [00:33:00] can sufficiently accurately simulate the conditions used by a whole range of different approaches to Fusion at the moment. We. Many different pieces of software or yeah codes as the physics Community calls them that they're each validated and optimized for different conditions different temperatures different densities different physical geometries of the plasma that kind of thing. There are some people who believe that we can make software that spans a sufficiently large range of these parameters. As to be useful for a family of fusion approaches. There are even people who claim to be working on them right now. Yeah, and when you dig more deeply you discover, yeah, they're working on them, but they haven't accomplished as much of that unified solution [00:34:00] as they think they have is they say they have so you talk to other people who use these and they're like, yes. Yes, I think those people really have the. I think they might be the people who can do this. They're not there yet. So the notion of spinning up a team of software engineers and plasma physicists and numerical experts and so forth to try to do that came to seem like a bigger lift with much more dubious payback in the relevant time frame than I had initially thought similarly on the hardware side. It is really costly in many ways to reconfigure physical equipment for one experiment and then reconfigure it for another experiment is really bad when you have to move things between locations as well or move a team to a site and configure everything there and then do your experiments for a month, but [00:35:00] it's still bad even. All the people and all the equipment are in when se you get to the most consistent results. If you can leave everything set up and you want to be able to keep going on Saturday or keep going on Monday because you weren't quite done with those through experiments. So to what degree can you really share these results these certain not these results. She killed to what degree can you really share this equipment? Yeah, definitely to some degree to a large enough to agree to justify. Spinning up a whole company. I'm not convinced got it on top of that. If I were to start a company doing this, I would need to find a CEO build up a whole team that I don't have to build when I'm investing in other companies, right? Should I be that CEO of many people assumed that I showed her that I wanted to or something like that. I think it's a really hard sell for [00:36:00] investors that I'm the best person to run this company on the other hand. It wasn't actually clear who should do it. Incentives: How do you measure impact and incentivize yourself?   Ben:  Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. I want to [00:37:00] go back to you're talking about incentives previously both that your incentives are to both have impact and make money for your shareholders. Yeah, I want to ask first. How do you measure impact for yourself in terms of your incentives you. I mentioned something along the lines of company's existing that would not otherwise exist. So like how it's pretty easy to know. Okay. I've like made this much money. It's a little harder to say. Okay, I've had this much impact. So  how do you personally measure that? Malcolm: Yeah, the clearest example of impact so far is another project called fuse annoyingly. Annoyingly the same name is spelt differently. So this is the fusion z-pinch experiment Fu [00:38:00] Ze at the University of Washington. And it's the group that we donated to (Fusion Z-Pinch Experiment. https://www.aa.washington.edu/research/ZaP) it is all four of the companies that have given money to so far are supported by our pennies Alpha program (ARPA-e Alpha Program:https://arpa-e.energy.gov/?q=arpa-e-programs/alpha ) its Fusion program and all four of them got less money than. Rpe would have liked to have given them. So the time that I became involved with the fuse project they were behind schedule on their rpe milestones and we made them a donation that enabled them to hire an extra two people for the rest of the life of the project that enabled them to catch up with their milestones and become the. Most successful of the fusion programs that are P of fusion projects that are PE has [00:39:00] when I say most successful what I mean is they are hitting their Milestones they are getting very clean results. So there they have a simulation that says as they put more and more current through their plasma. They will get higher temperatures and higher densities basically. Better and better Fusion conditions and that at a certain point they will be making as much energy as they're putting in at a point beyond that they will actually be getting what we call reactor relevant game getting a large enough increase in energy through their Fusion that they could run a reactor off that this and the way we plot their progress is. We look at the increase in currents that they're putting through their pastor and check that they are getting results that match their theoretical results for them. It's especially clean because they have this theoretical concern this theoretical curve [00:40:00] and their experimental results keep falling very close to that curve. So it's a really nice story because the connection between the money that they got. From strong atomics and the people that they hired and the results that they were able to the progress they were able to make with those additional people and the scientific validity of what they were doing is clear at every step. Yeah. So so that's one way that I can see the impact of what I'm doing another way. That's more. Is by being involved in the field and trying to make sure that it all makes sense to me. I wind up having insights or coming to understandings the turn out to be helpful to everyone. So I spent a long time [00:41:00] wondering about the economics of fusion. Companies are understandably mainly focused on getting Fusion to work and they don't spend that much time thinking about the competitive energy Market that they're likely to be selling into 15 or 20 years from now and what that means for their product. I spend time thinking about that because I want to convince myself that the space matters enough to justify my time. So I went through the stock process. And came to the conclusion that the ways that the companies were calculating their cost of energy were wrong. They were assuming that the reactors would be operating more or less continuously and they would be able to sell all of the electricity that they made whereas the reality is likely to be that for five or hours or so every day. No one [00:42:00] will buy their electricity because wind and solar producing cheaper electricity. See, right. So the conclusion that I've come to is well so scratch that so the companies often conclude that they need to be demand following they need to make their reactors able to ramp up and down according to what the demand is right that has other problems because the reactors are so expensive to build and so cheap to run. That ramping your reactor down to follow the demand doesn't actually save you any money. And so it doesn't make the electricity any cheaper. So I worked through all of this and came to the conclusion, which I think most people in the fusion space agree with know that you actually need to have integrated thermal storage. Your reactor is producing typically hot molten salts. Anyway, right and rather than turning that into [00:43:00] electricity. You should store the bats of hot molten salt and then run the reactor continuously and ramp up and down the turbine that is used to go from hot molten salts to electricity interesting turbines are cheap. They have low fixed costs. So you can much more affordably ramp them up and down plus if you were going to be demand following you were already going to be ramping your turbine up and. All I'm saying is keep the turbine demand following right make the reactor smaller so that it can run continuously. Right which is the most efficient way to use a high Capital cost good and then have a buffer of molten salt. So that's the that's a kind of insight that have come to by working through the economics and overall the investment case for Fusion. That I hope will help all the companies not just the ones I'm [00:44:00] investing in.   Incentives for LPs   Ben:  so those are those are your incentives is that combination of impact  profit and you also have LPS because of the VC fund structure. Where do you see there? What are their incentives in terms of what they want to see out of this? All right out of your firm Malcolm: my current LP is anonymous and so there's a limit to what I can say about their incentives sure, but they care about climate change. They basically by into my argument that climate change is real and worth mitigating, right and. Fusion is a promising and underinvested potential mitigation.   Does the profit motive increase impact?   Ben:  And to go a [00:45:00] little farther into that this is just a comment about impact investing as a whole  so the question is could they get a better return? By tape putting that money into a this definitely putting you on the spot, but I think you could probably make an argument that they  might get a better return just on the money putting the money in some other investment vehicle. And so they probably  want to see that same impact that you want to see and. I guess the the thing that I'm interested in is  does having the profit motive actually increased impact and if so how Malcolm: regarding the potential for profit. When [00:46:00] I started doing this, I thought it was really a charity play. I guess more politely only in Impact play but set up in a for-profit structure so that if it happened to make a profit then the people who had enabled it to happen would be able to share in that profit right as I have. Looked at the space more closely and refined my argument or arguments in this area. I have come to believe that there's a meaningful potential for profit here. This is all hinges on what you think on the chance that you were saying for Fusion working. It's very clear that if you shouldnt Works in a way that is economically competitive. The company that gets there will be immensely valuable assuming that [00:47:00] it manages to retain and say p and that kind of thing. So I've taken stabs figuring out the valuation of one of these companies the error bars are huge. So I got numbers around 25 billion for my low-end valuation closer to a trillion for the high-end. It's really hard to say, but the numbers are big enough on the profit if it works side right that it really boils down to do I think it's going to work that is a hard thing to put numbers on but by investing in a portfolio of them you increase your chances.   Risk, Timescales, and Returns vs. Normal Firms   Ben: something I know from other VC firms is that. You have to they have to limit their risk. They don't make as risky Investments because of their LPS because they feel they have this financial duty [00:48:00] to return some amount to their LPS in a certain amount of time right? I do you worry about those same pressures. Have you figured out ways around them ways to extend those time scales. Malcolm: I don't think I'm going to be subject to the same pressures because anyone who gives me money is going to be expecting something very different. Yeah, so instead of being subject to those pressures. I think that the same psychology manifests for me as limiting my pool of investors. So it's a real problem. It just plays out differently. Got it. That's it. A few things are different for me because I'm pitching the fund differently a normal fund cannot look at a space and say it's really important that something works in this space, but [00:49:00] it's not clear which company might succeed because there's real science risk, right so normally. Normally the investors to Silicon Valley can decide that this company or these two companies should be the winner and they can all agree that they're going to put all their money in there and they can anoint a winner it will win because it's getting all the money shorter than major Scandal that does not work for in when investing in companies with a heavy science risk. That's why I think you need to invest in a portfolio of companies and a normal fun has trouble doing that because they are obliged by their investment thesis that their investors have signed off on to spread their money out across different different sectors. Okay. So again, that doesn't make life. Magically easy [00:50:00] for me. It means I need to find investors who are on board for doing something different specifically investors who are wealthy enough that they are diversifying their Investments by investing in other funds or Vehicles besides mine and are not expecting diversity from me. But having found those investors, I will then be in a much better position because I can concentrate. In one sector and really solve that or at least strongly supported   Is Money the limiting reagent on fusion?   Ben: got it that makes a lot of sense. I want to shift and talk about Fusion itself. Okay a little bit more. So I'm sure you've seen the the fusion never plot. I'll put a link up in the show notes. (Fusion Never Plot: http://benjaminreinhardt.com/fusion_never/) So the question is this plot makes it look like if you pour more money in it will go faster. Do you think that's actually the case or is [00:51:00] there something else limiting the rate at which  we achieve Fusion Malcolm:  if you have to leave the existing spending. Then adding money is a way to make it go faster. But a cheaper alternative is to spend your existing money more wisely the world's Fusion spending and America's Fusion spending to a first approximation all goes in to eat. The international thermonuclear experimental reactor this International collaboration in France. (ITER - International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor. https://www.iter.org/proj/inafewlines) This thing came about because the next step for a fusion experiment in America and Russia was too expensive for either country to pursue independently, even though everyone's first inclination was surely to keep competing. So became a collaborative [00:52:00] Endeavor and. It's now a collaboration between many countries that things expected to suck up 20 billion or more and has a depressing schedule that ends with Fusion Energy on the grid and 2100. Okay, America puts on the order of a hundred fifty million a year into either directly and say 500 million a year. Into what are called either relevant projects domestic projects where you're trying to learn about something some problem that's relevant either but you're learning in a way that is smaller cheaper better controlled right than a 20 billion dollar massive building where everything is inevitably really complicated the. Other placed in America spends money is on [00:53:00] Neff the national ignition facility, which is really a weapons research facility that is occasionally disguised as an energy research facility. Another way that it's been described to me is the perfect energy research facility what these cynical people meant was it's too small to. (NIF - National Ignition Facility: https://lasers.llnl.gov/) Actually get to ignition or energy Break Even but it's big enough that the people working on it can tell themselves that it might get there. If only they work harder If Only They dedicate the rest of their career to this. So it has large numbers of people who really care about Fusion Energy much more than bombs working on. Because it's the best way that they can see meaning the best funded way that they can see to get there but they don't actually seem to believe that it's [00:54:00] going to get there. They just don't have any choice. So we spent a lot of money on these two programs and that funding would be more than adequate for forgetting to. If we spent it on anything more modern it is not controversial to say that these techniques these two facilities are the best Fusion approaches and experimental setups that we could come up with in the mid-80s the mid-90s when they were being designed that's a fact that's when they were being designed. They've had limited upgrades since but yeah, that's. That's the overall story. What is controversial is weather continuing to support them is the best move. There are people who believe that we need to keep putting money in there [00:55:00] because we're going to learn a lot if we keep doing that science or because if we don't put the money in there, then the money will get pulled and probably stand on bombs or something like that, but it won't come to fusion and so. Better bad money in a fusion than worse money somewhere else, right. My personal view is that eater is such a ridiculous energy project that it harms the entire Fusion field by forcing people to pay lip service. To the validity of its goals that we would be better off admitting that that thing is a travesty and that there are better ways to do Fusion, even if it meant losing the money now, I'm not certain about that. But that's the gamble I would take good news is we probably won't have to take that Gamble and it [00:56:00] looks as if the federal government is becoming much more open to to a yes and approach to funding. The mainstream approaches diffusion if and eater and a variety of projects for alternative approaches and more basic Research into things like tritium handling tritium breeding hardening materials to deal with high-energy neutrons. Lasting longer in the face of high-energy neutrons that kind of thing. So I think there's real momentum towards building a in inclusive program that can support everyone and that is of course the best much as I would take the gamble with killing eater and killing them if they do produce real scientific results, and and if we can have all these things that's a wonderful out.   Government Decision Making and Incentives   Ben:  on that note who ultimately [00:57:00] is the decision maker behind where government Fusion money is spent and what are their incentives? Malcolm: This is America. Is there ever one person who's the decision maker about some Ben: maybe not one person but is it is it Congress is it unelected officials in? Some department. Is it the executive branch? Do you have a sense? Is it some combination of all of them? Malcolm: The money flows through the department of energy a sub-department of the doughy is rpe, which has its 30 million dollar Fusion program and will hopefully have a new and larger Fusion program in the near future. (ARPA-e: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPA-E) There's also the office of Fusion science in an office of Fusion Energy and science ofes that funds a lot [00:58:00] of the mainstream Research into Fusion ( Office of Fusion Energy Science https://science.energy.gov/fes/ ) arpa-e is to my knowledge created by Congress and fairly independent of the doughy, but there's still feuding. I think without describing malice to anyone. It is a great Testament to many people's conviction and political skills that they were able to get America to fund niff and either more or less consistently over decades at a high cost and. Those people are highly invested in those projects continuing. I don't know whether that's because they genuinely believe that that's the best way to spend the money or fear that the money would disappear from Fusion completely [00:59:00] if it stopped or don't think that the Alternatives actually have any scientific credibility or. Are so now trapped by the arguments that they've been making strongly and successfully for decades, but for one reason or another or many reasons, they strongly believe that we need to continue to do these so there is a tension between people who want to fund the Alternatives and the people who want to fund the mainstream fusion   Who are the government decision makers?   Ben: and who are these people  do you have any sense of actually who they are? Like I'm not asking you to name names, but like what is their role? What is their nominal job title? Malcolm: I think it's a bunch of civil servants within the Dewey Congress has a role like cotton Congress gets to decide how much money to provide and that's often attached to a. About how that money will be spent right there have been [01:00:00] Congressional hearings on Fusion the covered either and whether we should continue to fund either it's a lot of different people.   What are the roles of Academia, Government, Industry, and Philanthropy?   Ben: Okay? Yeah.  I'm just really interested in dating you down until I like where we're the incentive structure is set up  along those lines in in your mind in sort of an ideal world. what do you see the ideal rolls of the the four Columns of Academia government private investment and philanthropy in making sort of an epic level project like Fusion. Yeah happen. Malcolm: There's a ton of room for government support on this. The federal government has National Labs that have the best computers the best software which is often classified the best testing sites many in many [01:01:00] ways. The only testing site. And lots and lots of experts the one thing that the federal government lacks is a drive to put Fusion Energy on the grid as quickly and as commercially successful as possible. I don't rule out that the federal government could develop that drive but. It seems like a long shot given that there's a lot of disagreement about climate change and energy policy and that kind of thing. So I think that the ideal would be that the federal government supports Fusion research with all of its resources Financial expertise modeling modeling software. Modelling hardware and testing facilities in partnership with Private Industry. So [01:02:00] that Private Industry is providing the drive to get things done. So I imagine a lot of research done at the federal government so that if the current crop of companies bottom out if it turns out that their techniques don't work. We have more Fusion research coming down the pipeline to support a later crop of companies, but we would have companies working closely with the federal government to try to build reactors getting assistance in all those ways from the federal government and providing the drive. The company's  would have this. Call of Fusion Energy on the grid that they would be working towards but they would get to use the federal government's resources for the areas that they're focusing on. There are also the areas that the companies are not focusing on areas that are largely common [01:03:00] to all companies and therefore no company views it as on their critical path to demonstrating reactor relevant gain, For example, for example tritium is toxic to humans and difficult to contain. It turns out even hydrogen is difficult to contain it leaks through metal surfaces, but we don't talk about this because hydrogen is. Astonishingly boring and section in small quantities. So we don't care that it leaks out of our containers we do care when tritium leaks out of containers because it's heavily regulated and toxic right? So any Fusion company that's handling Trillium is going to need a way to contain tritium with very low leak rates. Also, the world does not have very much true. You can't actually use tritium as a [01:04:00] fuel for Fusion. You have to breed tritium in your reactor from lithium. So the real inputs to the reactor if it is a deuterium tritium reactor will be do tarian and lithium and you'll be breeding tritium from lithium in your reactor. So we also need to study how we're going to breathe. The tritium right? We're making mathematical calculations about the tritium breeding rate how much tritium we will get out after doing Fusion relative to the amount of tritium. We had before doing fusion and these tritium breeding rates are close to 1 if they're below 1 or really not enough above one. We're screwed, right? So there's important work for academics. And the federal government to do to better understand trillion breathing rates [01:05:00] and what we can do to increase them and write how to make this work.   Companies aren't incentivized to look at things on critical path   Ben: Right and at the companies are not incentivised to look into that right now because they don't feel like it's on their critical path Malcolm: investors Pope maybe including myself have made it clear to these companies that. What they will reward the companies for is progress on the riskiest parts, right? This is valid you want to work on the Unruh Burning Down the biggest risks that you have, right and everyone perceives that the biggest risk is getting through Fusion conditions. Sorry. In many of these companies are already getting to Fusion conditions, but everyone perceives that the biggest risk is getting Fusion to work getting reactor relevant games from Fusion, right? So compared to that these risks are small and it's [01:06:00] valid to the further, right? If you're a single Company If you're looking from the perspective of a portfolio, which the federal government is best positioned to do which is. Going to be somewhat well position to do then your risks are different you're willing to say I have a portfolio of these companies. I don't care which one succeeds I'm doing what I'm doing, assuming one of them will succeed. Now. What can I do to D risk my entire portfolio, right? You look at it differently and then these problems start to seem critical. So with my second fund one of the things I want to be able to do. Is support academics or maybe for-profit companies that are working on this but the federal government isn't even better fit for this it is perfectly positioned to do this.   What does the ideal trajectory for Fusion look like?   Ben:  I think a good closing question is in your in your Ideal World.  would Innovation infusion come into being what would the path look [01:07:00] like? Imagine  Malcolm? King of the universe and we started with the world we have today what would happen Malcolm:  I think the federal government would do the  heavy lifting but it would rely on private companies to really provide the drive. It would the federal government would also support the longer term. Things that are critical but not the highest risks such as the tritium issues today - and perfect.   Why do so few people invest in fusion   Ben: there anything that I didn't ask that I should have asked about Malcolm: one question that comes up quite often is why so few people invest in Fusion? Yeah and why it is. That I'm the only one with the poor.   Ben: Yeah, if you could if it's there's a possible payoff of a trillion dollars, right? And that's  even if it takes 20 years  the AR are still pretty good. Malcolm: Yeah, the way I think of it [01:08:00] is there's a funnel where. It's like a company's fun offer acquiring customers. But in this case, it's an industry's funnel for acquiring investors and investors are falling out of this funnel at every stage. The first stage is of course, you have to believe in anthropogenic climate change, but we have lots of investors who believe in.   Why do you need to believe in climate change to fund fusion   Ben: quick question. Why why do you need to believe in that in order to want to fun fusion? Malcolm: Okay, that's a fair point. You don't have to but it's the easiest route. Okay. If you don't believe in climate change, then you have to believe purely infusions potential to provide energy that will be cheaper than fossil fuels, right. I believe a zoo that but it is a higher bar [01:09:00] than I believe the climate change is going to encourage people one way or another to put a premium on clean energy. Got up when I do my modeling. I'm not taking into account carbon taxes or renewable portfolio standards, but it's nevertheless easier to convince yourself to care about the whole thing. If you think that this is an important problem, right? Otherwise you could do it just because you think you can make a whole ton of money, but it is a high-risk way of making money, right? So one way or another let's say you decide you're interested in well. No, I think that's carry on with the. The funnel for a climate change. Yes. Yes, because there are a few more places that they can fall out and these places might apply to an ordinary profit seeking investors as well, but it's less clear. So you've decided you believe in anthropogenic climate change [01:10:00] and you'd like to see what you can do about it. Maybe you then narrow to focusing on energy. That's a pretty reasonable bad energy is something like 70% of our emissions  when you track everything back to the root. So perfectly reasonable Pace to focus within energy. There are lots of different ways that you might think you can do something about it. There's geothermal power. There's title power a long range of long tail a large range of long tail. Ways that you can make energy and a lot of people really get trapped in there or they decide they're going to look at the demand side of energy and think about how they can get people to drive less or insulate their buildings better or whatever. And in my opinion most of these people are basically getting stuck on [01:11:00] things that don't move the. Yeah, the don't add up to a complete solution. They are merely incrementally better. So when you look at things that might move the needle on energy, I think that the supply side is way more promising because the demand side is huge numbers of buildings cars people whose habits need to change on and on if you can change the supply side then. It doesn't matter as much if we are insulating our houses poorly driving too much that kind of thing. If we have enough energy we can doesn't matter we can make hydrocarbons. From the raw inputs and energy and we can continue to drive our cars and flat our planes and heat our cart heat our houses that have natural gas furnaces and that kind of thing. Ben: Well, if you have if you have absurd amounts of energy, you can just literally pull carbon out of the air and stick it in concrete   right? Malcolm: That's [01:12:00] the other thing. So, I believe that focusing on energy Supply is the right way to go because. With a distributed Grid or not. We have many fewer places that we make energy than where we consume energy and what you said, we're looking at significantly increased demand in the likely or certain case where we need to do atmospheric carbon capture and sequestration. It takes the energy it takes energy to suck the carbon out of the atmosphere and it takes probably. More energy to put it into a form where we can store it for a long time. Right? So I think you need to focus on the energy Supply even within that we have lots of ways of making clean energy that aren't scalable and there's a wonderful book called sustainable energy without the hot [01:13:00] air (Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air https://www.withouthotair.com/ ) that catalogs for the United. All the ways that they could make energy renewably and all the ways that they use energy and is more or less unable to make the numbers add up without throwing new clear in their got it nuclear or solar in the Sahara and then transfer transmitting the energy to to the UK. So that's it. You can probably make Renewables work. If you can start but the problem with Renewables is that well Renewables come in two forms that are the predictable forms like Hydra where we control when we release energy and then the variable Renewables like wind and solar where they make energy when Nature cases  for those. We need something to match the demand. That humans have for energy [01:14:00] with the supply that nature is offering and you can try to do that in some combination of three ways. You can over build your Renewables to the point where even on bad days or in Bad seasons, you're making enough energy. You can transmit your energy. You can overbuild you can space shift your energy. By building long distance transmission lines and you can time shifts your energy through storage. Right and it turns out that all three of these have real costs and challenges storage is an area where people get pretty excited. So this is the next point that people fall off. They say wind and solar are doing great. storage isn't solved yet, but gosh it's on these great cost curves and like I can totally see how storage is going to. A solved problem and then Renewables for work and I think there are two problems with that is that these one is [01:15:00] storage actually needs to get a lot cheaper. If you want to scale it to the point that we can use it for seasonal storage. Right? And we need a solution to the seasonal problem. There are places like California the. Vastly more Renewable Power sometimes if you're in the other times of year in California, it's by a factor of 10 or 12. Wow. Yeah, so it's not a day by day. It's Yeah by month and and that's critical because if you are cycling your storage daily just to to bridge between when the Sun's shining and when people need their power you get to monetize your story. Every day you get the entire capacity of your stories roughly right used 365 times a year for the 20 years that your plant is left. Right? If you're cycling it seasonally meaning once a year you get to sell 20 times [01:16:00] the capacity of your storage rather than 20 times 365 times the capacity of your storage. So your storage needs to be one 365th of the price. To hit that same price Target. Yeah. This is a really high bar for storage is economics. So the first problem with betting on storage is it needs to drop in price a lot to really solve the problem. The second problem is lots of people are investing in storage. So if you want your money to make a difference in terms of making you a profit or having an impact on the world. You need to out-compete all those other people working on wind and solar and storage.  you're going to play in that space and that leaves something like nuclear. There are compared to Fusion plenty of people investing in various nuclear fission approaches. So again, your company can make a difference your money can make a difference there. [01:17:00] But and it'll be a bigger difference than in wind and solar and storage but a small difference than Fusion. So say you get all the way to I think I want to invest in Fusion.  what you now encounter is an industry where everyone you talk to will tell you that their approach is definitely going to work unless they're being really nice and that everyone else is approach is definitely not going to work  \so. Pretty understandable at that point to give up on the whole Space. So in this is the step before that you have to to get over the hurdle where Fusion is always 10 years way. It's been 10 years away for as long as most of us have been alive,  you have to decide that you even want to look at Fusion then you hit the problem where everyone says nasty things about everyone else to a first approximation if you spend a long enough time there you might find a company. The convinces you that they are different that all those other people are crazy [01:18:00] and they're worth investing in but I've talked about why investing in one company is a bad idea to invest in multiple companies. You have to find some advisors or just be Reckless enough that you can so you have to find. Enough advisors who are open-minded or you have to be sufficiently Reckless to just roll a dice on these companies or maybe just sufficiently Rich that you're going to roll the dice on these companies, but it's a real hurdle to find advisors who are experienced and credible and open-minded enough to support investing in a portfolio of these companies. Yes, even then, If you're a regular VC fund which you probably are if you have enough money to do this, right we have the problems that I mentioned earlier where your Charter is to invest in a diverse [01:19:00] set of companies and you can't put enough money in these companies to infusion to support a portfolio of companies. so that is the funnel  did ends with as far as I can tell just strong atomics coming out the end as the only fund supporting a portfolio of fusion companies. That's why in my opinion. There are not more people investing in Fusion in general along the way.   Outro I got a lot out of this conversation here are some of my top takeaways.  There are many ways of structuring organization that's trying to enable Innovations each with pros and cons that depend on the domain. You're looking at Malcolm realize that a VC fund is best for Fusion because of the low return from shared resources and the temperaments of people involved just because there's a lot of money going into a domain. It doesn't mean it's being spent well. I love the way that Malcolm thought very deeply about the incentives of everybody. He's dealing with and how to align them with his [01:20:00] vision of a fusion filled future. I hope you enjoyed that. It's like to reach out. You can find me on Twitter at been underscore Reinhardt. I deeply appreciate any feedback. Thank you.  

Did you know that both good and bad fats play a huge role in the development of your visual system and brain? Douglas W. Stephey, O.D., M.S discusses the power fish oil supplements have in changing the course of inflammation in our body and brain. The arachidonic (pro-inflammatory) and eicosapentaenoic (anti-inflammatory) acid levels will be discussed: how to measure them and how to reverse this ratio when elevated. Douglas W. Stephey, O.D., M.S. 208 West Badillo St Covina, CA 91723 Phone: 626-332-4510 Website: http://bit.ly/DouglasWStephey Website Videos: http://bit.ly/DrStepheyOptometryVideos The Move Look & Listen Podcast is brought to you in part, by Audible - get a FREE audiobook download and 30-day free trial at www.audibletrial.com/InBound If interested in producing a podcast of your own, like the Move Look & Listen Podcast, contact Tim Edwards at tim@InBoundPodcasting.com or visit www.InBoundPodcasting.com Transcription Below Tim Edwards: The Move Look and Listen Podcast with Dr. Doug Stephey is brought to you by audible. Get a free audio book download and a 30 day free trial audible membership www.audibletrial.com/inbound. You'll find over 180,000 titles to choose from, including several books mentioned here in the podcast. Support the Move Look & Listen Podcast by visiting www.audibletrial.com/inbound.  Dr. Stephey: If our two eyes are not working together well as a fast synchronized team, our internal mapquest continues to be off. It's consistently inconsistent with our ability to judge time and space. Those that don't feel well-grounded, those that have some measure of anxiety, oftentimes it starts in the visual system. If you can't move, look and listen in a fast, accurate, effortless, sustainable, age appropriate, meaningful way, you're in a world of hurt. There's a whole world in vision and how it affects brain function that no one's ever shared with you. 20/20 is perceived as a holy grail of going to the eye doctor. Well, I'm here to change that paradigm.  Tim Edwards: This is episode eight of the Move Look and Listen, Podcast with Dr Doug. Stephey. You know, we've talked about a lot of things in this podcast, Dr. Stephey and today we're going to tie in vision and nutrition. So for those that maybe have just stumbled across Apple Podcasts or whatever platform they're listening to their podcast, they're probably wondering, what in the heck do these two have in common? And you've alluded to them several times. You've more than alluded, you've discussed them in detail in several previous episodes. But today we're going into fish oil, right? How fish oil, in particular, or omega-3's can help  your vision and other aspects of your being.  Dr. Stephey: Yeah, that's right Tim. So let's launch off into this. omega-3's, they are a big deal. There's one theory about human development that goes back, what, 20, 30, 40,000 or so years.   There's one theory that says that when humans started eating the seafood diet, the size of our brain exploded in size. Arguably that's the theory of human development. There's two theories that I've heard about why we have the brains that we do today. One is the amount of mega three fatty acids that we used to eat and the other was man's ability to use tools. Because using tools requires a concept called motor planning and motor sequencing, which ties to that millisecond timing clock that we were talking about last episode. But motor planning and sequencing, it is a platform for speech and language and eye movement control and auditory processing and cognitive abilities. All starting through motor planning and motor sequencing. So omega-3's, as people may or may not know, is the long chain fatty acid associated with fish oil and there's a ratio called the AA to EPA ratio, arachidonic acid to eicosapentaenoic acid levels. And the phenomenal thing about this ratio is that very few physicians actually seem to know or talk about it. And I tell you that because I was in to see my family physician a few weeks ago who didn't seem to know a lot about the AA/EPA ratio .  Dr. Stephey: I have a couple of brain injury recovery patients in my practice who have gone back and asked their neuro rehab doctors about this ratio. They didn't seem to know anything about it. Another patient of mine had a stroke last summer. She's in her late forties. She went back and talked to her cardiologist about this ratio. He didn't know anything about it but at least was interested to read and I talked to a friend of mine who's an ER physician back in Michigan who didn't seem to know a lot about it. And I'm stunned.  Tim Edwards: Flabbergasted. I think maybe because like you said, it's a big deal. You talk about brain development and overall health and yet these physicians know nothing about it.  Dr. Stephey: I remember about probably going back 15, 20 years when I first started to read about omega-3 fatty acid. There was a handful of pregnant women at the time in my practice and I said, hey, has your baby doctor talked to you about omega-3 fatty acids in your diet?  Dr. Stephey: Like, no, what are you talking about? I'm like, you should be taking  omega-3 fatty acids. You should've been taken them six months before you consider getting pregnant.  Tim Edwards: The baby doctor was probably talking about folic acid.  Dr. Stephey: Not omega-3s, and unlike if you don't believe me, just go do a google search for prenatal development and omega-3s. Or infant development and omega-3s. But at the time, this was not being discussed. I'm pretty sure today, most infant formulas have some measurable form of EPA or DHA in them.  Tim Edwards: Because we're talking about the development of the brain and their unborn child from the get go.  Dr. Stephey: Yes, I'm telling you if and when my daughters ever decide they're going to have kids. We're having a long talk about lungs. Six months before you need to be up in your omega-3 game in preparation for being a feeding tube for a newborn.   Tim Edwards: Right. Dr. Stephey: So omega-6 fatty acids versus omega-3 fatty acids. That's the ratio that we're really talking about today relative to what's happening in our blood and in our body dictated by the food we put in it. And the reality is that between vegetable oils and trans fats and processed foods, we're getting way more omega-6 fatty acids than omega-3s. And omega-6 fatty acids are pro-inflammatory and omega-3 fatty acids are anti-inflammatory. And there's a long biochemical pathway that goes from omega-6 fatty acids in our diet to arachidonic acid, that's the pathway. Or omega-3s to eicosapentaenoic acid, which is the anti inflammatory pathway. But now we're talking about what is that ratio in our diet? Well, I suppose the idealistic ratio would be one to one. But three to one or two to one is acceptable and considered still really good.  Dr. Stephey: So you might have three times as many omega-6s in your diet as omega-3s, but that's still considered good. No, that's better than good. So the Standard American Diet.. Tim Edwards: The SAD diet. Dr. Stephey: The SAD diet because in so many ways. The sad and pitiful, I'm going to be sick way before my time diet.  Tim Edwards: And if you don't mind me throwing a plug in for another podcast on the Inbound Podcasting Network, it's the Vibrant Living Wellness Center podcast and we go into the s-a-d or sad diet in great detail.  Dr. Stephey: I can't tell people to learn enough about it because there is a dearth of information people just don't know. And the more that they learn, the more that they're likely to change their behavior. And if you don't know, some years ago, the church I was going to, the pastor said one day said, "you know what," he said, "I've learned over the years that people aren't likely to change their behavior unless they have enough knowledge that stares them to do so, or they hurt enough that they need to change their behavior.  Tim Edwards: Great nugget of wisdom for sure. Unfortunately we all wait till we hurt enough. At least I do.  Dr. Stephey: Well and sadly further is that there are a lot of people today, both in emotional and physical pain that don't have to be, because they don't know this information and they have just come to accept that hurting this much is the way their balance of their life is going to be. And it does not have to be that way.  Tim Edwards: And so circling back Dr. Stephey, I think I derailed you a little bit and I apologize with my comment about the SAD diet, but you were going into omega-3s and omega-6 and the ratios.  Dr. Stephey: Yes. So, the Standard American Diet, I read this a couple of different ways now. The typical American has an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of somewhere between 15 and 20:1.  Tim Edwards: Wow.  Dr. Stephey: And it's supposed to be 3:1 or better.  Tim Edwards: Have you ever had yours checked?  Dr. Stephey: I did.  Tim Edwards: Your markers?  Dr. Stephey: So my story is that I had my, AA to EPA ratio checked in September of 2016 and it was 9.8. Higher than four and less than 10 was considered goods.  Tim Edwards: So you were borderline good, barely.  Dr. Stephey: I had convinced myself that, oh look at me, I'm under 10.  Tim Edwards: A 9.8.  Dr. Stephey: So I don't really have to do that much about this.  Tim Edwards: You know what, that's a common tale for most of us. I'm sure. I'm in the range! I'm good! But that was in 2016, right?  Dr. Stephey: That was in 2016 and I don't know who's the worst patient. The patient who doesn't know what they should be doing and doesn't do it because they don't know. Or me because I know what I'm supposed to be doing and I don't always do it.  Tim Edwards: That's the worst patient.  Dr. Stephey: I was hoping you'd get me some slack on it.  Tim Edwards: I know, but you know what? Because I'm like you. I mean we're all that way. I mean, you know, we like our comforts unfortunately. But they can become deadly.  Dr. Stephey: Well, you know, here's what I talk about with patients all the time in my practice and then we'll get back really to the topic at hand but this is related to that. Indeed we will definitely get to how this ties into vision, but this is good foundational information. So when you say we like the foods, we like. Well let's be clearer about that. It's not even us that like the foods we eat, it's the bad bacteria in our GI tract. There is a continuous battle in our gut, in the microbiome or the bacterial population that lives there. So that is a good versus evil discussion.  Dr. Stephey: Bad bacteria loves sugar and simple carbohydrates. There's some research that has made the argument that sugar is more addictive than cocaine.  Tim Edwards: Yes, I've heard that, read that, discussed that many times before.  Dr. Stephey: And that proteins in wheat and proteins in dairy act in the brain on the same receptors that opiates do. So when this bad bacteria drives these cravings, it's not even us that really wants that. It's the bad bacteria. And the bad bacteria says to you as it's living host, you know what, I don't care if you get diabetes and lose a limb. I don't care if you get MS or Lupus. I don't care if you have asthma or respiratory disease and need an oxygen tank to carry around. I don't care if you get arthritis as long as you're feeding me sugar and carbohydrates, I'm okay with you being really sick for 40 years.  Dr. Stephey: That is not right.  Tim Edwards: No, but we listen to it so we need to stop. Right? But how do we do that? Is it, is the answer in the omega-3s?  Dr. Stephey: omega-3s I think do play a role in that. And I'll give you an example. So if we talk about that 15:21 ratio, 15 to 20:1 ratio, that means that we're producing way more arachidonic acid in our body than eicosapentaenoic acid, which means that our immune system is highly inflamed. Virtually every cell in our body now is on fire. That is not the way to go about your business. It physically hurt. Your brain hurts. You are more at risk for developing a mood regulating disorder. You're more likely going to have a learning disability. You're more likely going to get diagnosed with ADHD or ADD. This unchecked, runaway, unchecked inflammation is wreaking havoc on us every day and we don't have to have it be that way.  Dr. Stephey: So to go back to my own story, 9.8, I convinced myself it was pretty good. I wasn't taking enough omega-3s as I should have been. And then I had a physical earlier in the year and I've had some issues with my blood sugar being too high. And I'm like, oh, homies not doing that, no. Tim Edwards: Yeah, we're not going there.  Dr. Stephey: So, I decided.  Tim Edwards: You're talking about potential prediabetic?  Dr. Stephey: I was beyond prediabetes. My physician said, Doug, you're now type 2 diabetic, and I'm like, no I don't. I'm not doing that. So the first thing I decided was if my omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acid ratio should be less than four to one then I'm on it. And Tim, I started taking six to 9,000 milligrams a day of EPA and DHA.  Tim Edwards: Now tell me, what is the daily recommended dose?  Dr. Stephey: Well, that's an interesting question and it's why we're doing this podcast because pretty much you got to have a Ph.D. in fish oil to make any sense out of what the heck is going on and what should I be doing?  Dr. Stephey: So when you typically go to the store and pick up a bottle of fish oil and and especially if it's a capsule, it's likely going to say serving size is one capsule and one capsule is usually a thousand milligram capsule. So the first discussion that I have with patients is, are you taking an omega-3? Invariably, the answer is no, but on the rare case that somebody is taking an omega-3, I say, how many milligrams of EPA and DHA are you taking? And they say, I don't know. Okay, how many capsules do you take a day? Well, I take one because that's what the bottle says. All right, well I need you to go home and look at your bottle and report back to me in the thousand milligram capsule. How many actual milligrams of EPA and DHA are in that thousand milligrams because you're not taking a thousand milligrams of EPA and DHA.  Dr. Stephey: I'll tell you that right now because every brand is different. And then I play a numbers game and I say, well, we don't know what you'r AA/EPA ratio is at this point. We could talk about you ordering a test to get it done, but we don't know. But let's say conservatively that you should be taking 3000 milligrams a day. Well, if you were getting a full thousand milligrams of EPA and DHA in that capsule, then you should be taking three capsules a day. But if you go home and your capsule says, oh, this only has 500 milligrams of EPA and Dha, well to get to 3000, you should be taking six of those a day. And if you're a capsule says it's got a 100 milligrams of EPA and DHA in it, then you ought to be taking the 30 of those a day.  Tim Edwards: So not all fish oil is created equal by any means.  Dr. Stephey: Oh, good gracious. No, Tim, there are some commercial official products that when you look at the EPA and DHA content, there are no numbers. They just have little tiny asterisk. Tim Edwards: Oh, boy. So then you're just wasting your money.  Dr. Stephey: So, my AA/EPA ratio, September 2016 was 9.8 and I mentioned that I got diagnosed recently with type 2 diabetes. That I'm going to reverse and mostly have at this juncture. And it's, we're barely three and a half, four months into the diagnosis.  Tim Edwards: Right, you were a 9.8 and 10 was the back end of normal.  Dr. Stephey: 10 was the back end of good.  Tim Edwards: Back end of good.  Dr. Stephey: But 3 to 1 or less was ideal. This is where we all should be. So, I up my fish oil intake and within 60 days and I had my retesting done, it came down to 3 to 1.  Tim Edwards: Oh wow. Amazing! Tim Edwards: Based upon the appropriate amount of omega-3s that you should be taking. Dr. Stephey: Yes. Tim, and I'm glad you said it in that manner because it prompted a memory for me and that is what is an appropriate amount? Because people will often, we talk about this in the office and people say, well what should I be taking? I say, what's your AA/EPA ratio? They're like, what the heck is that? And I'm like, well it's this and this is how you measure it.  Tim Edwards: Yeah. Because the doses cannot be consistent for everybody in any type of medication or any type of supplement.  Dr. Stephey: Right.  Tim Edwards: The doses are different. So, the, the first step for someone to find out their levels, their markers is what?  Dr. Stephey: The first thing to do is get the AA/EPA ratio measured and we'll include a link on a test about how to do that so that you can go read about this test availability and that it's not that hard to get measured.  Doug Stephey: And the kit that I'm talking about is something that can be sent home to you. You take a fingerstick, collect a few drops of blood and you send it off to this lab and then usually within about 10 days, maybe two weeks, we've got these results back. We've got something tangible to discuss.  Tim Edwards: Yeah you've got a benchmark to work with and it's, can I say the name of it?  Dr. Stephey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  Tim Edwards: The reason being, because I did it the other day and I'm awaiting my results and I can't wait and this is a service provided through Dr. Stephey. So we'll include a link and then they could just go through you. It's called BrainSpan Laboratories. BrainSpan, cell health assessment. The health of your cells dictate the health of your entire body and we're talking about attention, memory, anxiety and stress, chronic nerve pain and inflammation, weight management and metabolism, soft tissue and musculoskeletal injuries.  Tim Edwards: I mean this test covers a wide range of markers for us to start from and then once we get the test back, then we can make some adjustments.  Dr. Stephey: And that's because cellular inflammation affects every cell in our body. And let's go back to the appropriate dosage because as an example, one of the books that I read some years ago called The Omega-3 Connection written by a physician named Andrew Stole. He's a neuropsychiatrist who specialize bipolar disorder. And in his book he said, look, I've done this research. We have patients with bipolar disorder who are on maximum medical therapy who still have wild mood swings until we put them on high dose pharmaceutical grade fish oil at the range of 10, 12, 14,000 milligrams a day. So if you've got a mood behavior disorder, odds are that you need high dose fish oil because of the cellular inflammation.  Dr. Stephey: Most likely driven by the way that you're eating and that you're getting way too many omega-6s in your diet and your body and brain is on fire. I've got other research that I've read where they took a group of kids, broke them into two. The experimental group and a control group, so they kept them in the same curriculum. The only thing they did, Tim, was to give the kids in the experimental group, 16,000 milligrams of fish oil a day for I think it was 20 weeks and over the 20 weeks I'm not and I'm not telling people to go out and do that much. I'm just telling you this research, but over the 20 weeks periodically, I don't know, at the six and eight week mark, maybe the 14th week mark, 16th and 20th, something like that. They will go back and measure these kids reading skills and the kids on the fish oil their reading outcomes.  Dr. Stephey: Just start climbing and going through the roof and the only thing they've done is up their fish oil intake. Now the the brain has the second highest concentration of fats in our body. Only behind the retina which has the highest concentration of fats in our body, and that's how this nutrition, omega-3 fatty acid vision piece ties together pretty much every cell membrane in our body is made up of a phospholipid layer, water and fat. And to get nutrients into a cell and waste products out of the cell, it has to go through these cell membranes. And your body's going to make these cell membranes out of whatever fat you consume the most of. So if you're consuming too much of bad fats, the cell membranes in your wall are made of like solid brick instead of the semi-porous membrane that nutrients and waste products can go back and forth between.  Dr. Stephey: It honestly it isn't any more difficult than what I've just said.  Tim Edwards: It's very simple for us to understand that the only challenge will be to make the shift, but it doesn't seem like it's that hard of a shift to take the appropriate amount of fish oil. I mean really. It seems like every episode we have this, this crazy astronomical problem and you're like, and we can fix it with this. It's been in front of our face the whole time. Yet we didn't even know it was there.  Dr. Stephey: And you know, sometimes it's about that simple. Even though the podcast and a lot of what I talk about is Move Look & Listen, what I didn't speak clearly about in that triad is the nutrition piece. But it is a discussion with every patient that I have.  Tim Edwards: Well it sounds like nutrition is a major component in all three of those triads in that, in that triad.  Dr. Stephey: Well, it has to be right because if your brain is going to train itself to develop a new skill or a better skill or a skill you didn't have, it can only do that if it's got the nutritional building blocks to be able to benefit from the training or the therapy that you're going to be doing. So yes, there are limits to what my vision therapy protocols can do. If you're eating a really bad diet and you're not willing to change it. Now, I'm not saying you won't make gains, but you won't make the gains that you should have and you won't lead the life that you should have and you won't feel like you should if you continue to eat a crappy diet and don't change those outcomes. And tied to that again, we got to reduce the inflammation in your body and brain.  Dr. Stephey: We've got to get the good bacteria to out populate the bad bacteria in your GI track and this has wide ranging implications. I don't care if you're 90-years-old and have dementia or Alzheimer's. Or if you're an infant who's just now developing their nervous system, including brain and body and auditory processing and motor controls skills. Yet truly we are what we eat. Dot, dot, dot. We are what we're able to digest. So even if you eat really well, but your GI tract is a train wreck, you're not absorbing what you're eating and your body can't use it and it does not have to be that way. And I am happy to be an agent of change to help you get back on track and know the value of these omega-3 fatty acids and how they affect your brain and vision. Tim Edwards: Thank you for listening to the Move Look & Listen Podcast with Dr. Doug Stephey brought to you by audible. Get a free audio book download and a 30 day free trial of audible membership at audibletrial.com/inbound. You'll find over 180,000 titles to choose from, including books mentioned here in the Move Look & Listen podcasts. You can listen to these books through your iphone, your android, your kindle, your computer, or even an MP3 player. And if for any reason and at any time you choose to cancel your membership, you keep all of your audio book, downloads. Give it a shot for 30 days. You got nothing to lose. Support the Move Look & Listen podcast by visiting audibletrial.com/inbound. We will include a link for your convenience, in the show notes of this and every episode of the podcast. And of course if you like some more information regarding Dr. Stephey's practice or to make an appointment, we will include links in the show notes to Dr. Stephey's website and his youtube channel.  Tim Edwards: Dr. Stephey's website is stepheyoptometry.com. That's s t e p h e y optometry.com. You can also call the office at 626-332-4510. Again, all of Dr. Stephey's contact information will be included in the show notes of each and every episode. One last request before we let you go on to the next episode, please subscribe to the podcast from whichever platform you might be listening in. Of course, it is free to subscribe and it ensures that every time we post a new episode, you'll find it right there waiting for you to listen in your podcast app of choice. We really do appreciate your listening and until next time for Dr. Stephey of the Move Look & Listen podcast. I'm Tim Edwards with the Inbound Podcasting Network.         

Back with another episode mayne! In today's episode I talk about the video games that caught my eye from the E3 conferences. And of course I get to some album reviews (That I'm late on, my bad) 1. Pusha T-Daytona 2.Black Thought-Streams Of Thought 3. Kanye West & Kid Cudi-Kids See Ghosts Recommendation: 14KT & Ro Spit-RSXGLD https://rsxgld.bandcamp.com/album/rsxgld Listen And Rate On ITUNES itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/dojo-…d1265990272?mt=2 Send Us Questions at Dojotalkpodcast@yahoo.com Like The Dojo Talk Podcast Facebook Page www.facebook.com/dojotalkpodcast/ Listen On Google Play play.google.com/music/listen#/ps/…ilhyuq5mcg5rjhnze Follow Me On Twitter twitter.com/CerealSensei Background Instrumental Bobcatgoldwav – Solar-flare

Katrina Ruth: Ooh. That made a significant improvement, didn't it? Just that little forward tilt. She just needs a little bit of a forward tilt. Who's she? Not me, the tripod. The tripod is a girl, she's a lady. She's a lady who lunches. Somebody just invited me to lunch, I was like, "Ooh, lunch. How fancy." I feel like lunches for really fancy people, is that a true thing or am I making it up? I don't do lunch, who does lunch? Do people even eat lunch? Is that a thing? Who goes to lunch? What's that about? Who goes to lunch, I mean really. If you invite me to a lunch for your birthday, I'm going to be a little bit like, "Really, what's up with that? Dinner, I'll go to dinner." Live, we are live. I'll go to dinner, I will go for the espresso martinis ... I want to get my beach that's on both sides in. Dilemma. I don't care for that spiky spiky behind me. Do you reckon I should move it? Katrina Ruth: You think I could fix up my bloody set ... my fabulous set, before I get on it. You would think that, but if you thought it, you would be wrong. You go to lunch, who goes to lunch? My mind is being blown. You can't just go around going to lunch. I'm going to move this plant here. Oh man, my cushion situation just went out the window. All right. Hello. Just do a little bit of furniture shifting before we begin. I'm kicking it with my foot, I don't like that plant. Plant can fuck right off. With love. With love to wherever it came from. That is much better. Isn't it infinitely better? Do you feel like we need more brightness? Ha. What do you think? I'm just done with the throne right now, sorry, I'm just done with sitting in the throne. Sometimes the queen got to get off the motherfucking throne. Hello from Darwin. Why have I still in my whole life not been to Darwin? Okay that's it. Katrina Ruth: Who wants to do an amazing, amazing, kick ass entrepreneur retreat in Darwin? In a very fabulous high end location. Why are all my cushions falling off? As fast as I pick them up, they're falling off. What's happening? And why am I a little bit out of breath? Did something exciting happen to me? Not really. Something exciting is always about to happen, it's probably going to happen right now on this live stream. Okay yes, you guys are in. Oh my god I'm not even joking, I'm announcing it officially ... okay North Carolina, what are you going to offer me there? Is there good grits there, because I'll consider it. But they've got to be a lot of chicken, a lot of meat, a lot of protein. Darwin for sure we can get some really good meat. Right. Is there Vegemite on my face, because I was just eating quite a lot of it straight out of the jar, mushed with avocado and toast. So this is my studio, usually my throne is right there. I pushed it out of the way. Fuck you throne for now. Katrina Ruth: Okay, I'm announcing it officially, we're doing a very high end retreat in Darwin. I know for sure there's some fancy places in Darwin. Everyone send a love heart shout to Tina because she's just created that. Because she said, "Hi from Darwin," and I suddenly was like, "Oh my god, that's it. I've always wanted to go to Darwin and I've just never gotten around to it." And I have looked up those places and I know there's some really cool places you can go and do a retreat at, for sure, right? Tina's going to tell us what they are. We'll figure it out, we'll figure it out. I'm doing it, 10 women. How much will it be, how much will it be? Let's work it out right now. What am I talking about? Magic and power, we'll get to that in a moment. Let's do this retreat, this is the best way to do it or I'll just forget. So let's do this retreat, what month are we up to now? Katrina Ruth: We're going to do it in ... is it ... I was going to say will it be too hot in August, but then I remembered we're in Australia not America. August must be a pretty good month for Darwin, because it's not going to be crazy fucking hot, right? But it will still be hot enough. Cannes? I don't know about Cannes. I've been there already, sorry. So I think we should do it end of August, let's do it late August. Let's figure this out right now. I didn't even know I was going to launch a retreat, this is fucking amazing. I've never just created an offer on a live stream and then launched it. Who would not want to come to an incredible retreat in Darwin and we can do many nature-y things. How long should it go for? Vote. Four days? Four nights and three days? How long? We're going to do it, that's July right? We're going through the diary. And I'll do the same retreat in America, don't worry. So put your votes in for which city it should be in. Katrina Ruth: We're going to do it at the end of August, from Thursday August 30th, Mim can you write this down so that I don't forget about my own retreat? Yeah, four days. We're going to arrive on Thursday 30th of August, 31st, 1st is two, and we'll go through to the Monday. Now how much will it be? I don't know, should I include accomodation or not? I can really start putting up prices when I don't know if I'm putting out accommodations. I've been to Austin Texas many times. It's amazing, amazing. I love Texas. I do like Texas a lot. I have multiple reasons for liking Texas. But I love Austin. All right, well I've been to Dallas a lot, a lot, that's for sure. And I do like it there too a lot. A lot, a lot. Okay you guys are signing me up for a Texas retreat as well, are you? All right, well maybe. We'll see. I got to admit that my reasons for going to Texas are shortly about to be diminished. So what else was I saying? Katrina Ruth: I'm trying to decide should I give you a price right now for the retreat, but the only thing is I don't know how much, if I'm going to include accommodations or not. I've got to include accommodation. I think it's going to have to be a fabulous Airbnb where we can all stay. Do you think there is a fabulous Airbnb where we can all stay there? I don't even know what we're going to do on this retreat, but we will do everything. It's going to be a soul shifting, money making retreat. Soul shifts and money making. Message me now ... not now, pay attention here right now, message me on my personal Facebook if you want to come to the Darwin retreat. It's going to be full luxury and full stripping you back to the core. It'll be a hustle house, mixed with sausage, chips, and cellular ... cellular shifts and money making mixed with lots of martini and fun time, mixed with definitely full on adventure shit. Which I don't know what it's going to be yet, but you can't go around [inaudible 00:07:23] Darwin without doing crazy adventures and nature stuff. Katrina Ruth: Of course there's going to be a wine cellar ... yeah, we're going to do an Airbnb, we're not doing a hotel-y place. We'll get a chef, you know we'll get people to do things for us, and we will do a lot of high end lux stuff. We will rip your soul out, it will be high end with soul ripping. What else would you desire or want? Nothing. And we're definitely going to be getting into some full on nature shit of some kind. I'm really excited. It'll probably be 10 places max. I don't know how many people you can get into an Airbnb but I feel like 10's a good number anyway for me energetically. We're going to go to the water field, Tina's announcing it. Waterfalls. Message me about it and I'll sort it out over the next several days. How exciting. I'm so excited. I've been wanting to do some kind of like smack down boot camp slash hustle house, slash soc definitely running with the soc ... ooh, ooh, ohh, how have I never seen that hashtag before? Katrina Ruth: Lisa says she loves a good soul fuck. Fuck me. Fuck my soul please. Oh my god. Can I just quickly message that to somebody before we continue? Oh wait. I'll save it for later. Please fuck my soul, wait you already did. Okay so anyway, a little distracted, because I've known for ages that I so want to do a retreat and I couldn't ... oh my goodness this speaks to everything we're here to talk about. You know how fucking powerful and magical you are. That is a long ass name. Joelyn Rose McKayla Jane Longbow. Is that one person or have you got multiple profiles going on there? What's happening? Yes, well I'm going to take it and PM it to someone privately Lisa. Anyway, so anyway, I'm now thinking about that. I've really wanted to do a retreat for ages, a wine coach? I don't need a fucking wine coach. What do you mean a wine coach? I'm totally fine without a wine coach for choosing wine. Do you mean a couch? I don't understand what a wine couch is either though. And I just didn't have the idea coming forth from me. One name. Amazing. Katrina Ruth: Now I feel like I have name scarcity, my name's too short. I still have to get around to finalising what my next name is going to be. My new name. No that's right, I remember what it is. I'm changing my surname to Show. I'm legitimately, legally going to do this. And everybody can get fucked if they think it's kind of stupid. But I'm going to change my name to The Katrina Ruth Show. I don't know if you're allowed to legally change your name to The in Australia, but we'll see. But you can ... but I can definitely change my last name to Show. So my actually name will be Katrina Ruth Show. And then Facebook can suck it about how I'm not allowed to change my page name to the Katrina Ruth Show, because they were like, "Where's the show?" And I'm like, "Bitches please. This is the motherfucking show." Seriously. So then if it's my legal name? Just amazing. I'm just amazed at my own amazingness right now. I'm very impressed with myself. This cushion is scratching my back up. I'm exfoliating my back right now with these sequins. Katrina Ruth: And where did my other motherfucking cushion go? Did that purple cushion escape so far that I can't even see it? It's behind me. Okay. You've got to have a little bit of crazy in your life. People will be like, that's too far, changing your name to Show. No they wouldn't, you guys wouldn't, but normal people would. Well what's even the point of life if you can't muck around and be silly and have fun and shenanigans? We are going to have so much shananiganary on this Darwin retreat. I'm so excited that I'm doing a retreat in Darwin, I can't believe I didn't know that. I can't believe that the divine forces just aligned themselves together right now. I've been putting off organising a retreat in Australia for so long, because I'm like fuck the Gold Coast. Okay, this is the Gold Coast and it's quite beautiful and I have an amazing view here and I have a huge double story apartment here where technically I could run a fucking retreat here ... but I just didn't feel it, I didn't feel it, I didn't feel it. Katrina Ruth: And then the Darwinism came through within the whole Darwinism bit, but definitely the Darwin bit. We're going to have the best time ever. I'm going to bring my sister Jess up. Somebody tell her. Maybe I should rope in some of my friends. Maybe I should bring some of my badass friends. We're going it on Thursday August 30th. We just co-launched it right here on this live stream Helen. People in America, you would totally come from America to a retreat in Darwin. It'll be fucking amazing. Who of my friends would you want to see at this retreat? Put your votes in and we'll see if we can persuade them. And then I've got to do the retreat somewhere in America that's like ... For those of you who don't know where Darwin is, it's in the desert, it's the red fucking centre, it's where Uluru is slash Ayers rock, whatever it's being called now. I'm sorry I'm not up to speed. That's probably very politically incorrect. And you know, the crockadoo and there are very many scary beasties, that probably the Americans will all be scared of. Katrina Ruth: That's where the real dangerous things are I suppose, no it could be anywhere, it could be right here on this chair. And then yeah, yeah. Sedona I've been too, I feel like Sedona's too obvious, because every motherfucker does Sedona. Do you know what I mean? What's the west coast, tell me more about that. Does that mean the side where New York is? Is that what you mean by west coast? I do know that, but you have to be more specific. You're thinking Ellis Springs with the Uluru. Okay you're right, I don't know anything about geography, but we could travel. We could take a day trip. It's in the same state. It's not even a state, it's not even a state, it's a fricken territory. You getting me distracted. So I want to do it somewhere that's super cool and outdoorsy. Maybe in like a mountainous part of California, what do you think about that? All right, we'll figure it out. Leanna Francisco, that's a fabulous name. Maybe my surname should be Francisco, except it's going to be Show. West coast is California. Okay I know nothing about geography. Katrina Ruth: East coast ... ah, yeah, that's why they call it Eastern Standard time for the New York time. I'm not dumb, because clearly I've built a multi-seven figure business online, and by the way I'm a mass genius. Yosemite is amazing, I've been there, I got snowed in in an RV. Oregon, I've never been there. So clearly I have some wit and intelligence about me, but don't ask me things about geography, I get very fucking confused. And the other thing that I really can never figure out ... What? Who's ringing my doorbell right now? What's happening? Is that my sister turning up 26 minutes early? Inappropriate. I don't mind really, but I hate to be interrupted on a live stream. What's going on? Let's tell her off. You're early, I'm on a live stream. No it's fine, I was being a smart ass so that the livestream people laughed at me. Okay she made a funny face, I don't think she thought it was funny. She was like, "Oh, sorry." All right, don't worry. Anyway, we'll tell her about the Darwin retreat. There we go, I cracked the door for her. Katrina Ruth: Hey would you like a tour? This is lounge room, look how boring it looks I need some ... There's supposed to be a big picture behind that wall, it fell down. Here's another balcony for you, it's a bit misty today. Kitchen, and there's a whole upstairs. Massive kitchen. Here's my studio where we were. See this long ass picture on the wall was supposed to be behind that other couch. And there's my daughter's playroom. This is a little girl's heaven in here. It's supposed to be a study but she commandeered it. I like her style. There's the throne, its sorry ass is now sitting in the corner. Okay so it's been established, we're doing a Darwin retreat, Darwin is not Alice Springs. Katrina does not know east coast from west coast but she does know how to make money online. So you can all forgive her and you can all listen. And now I'm apparently talking about myself in the third person from now on. Did you know, did you know, before I get distracted by magickery and shenaniganary, did you hear the Empress is open? Katrina Ruth: Mim, give them some Empress details. But this is only for the people who know that they're like so bored as fuck with themselves for not showing up fully. And really that part of the reason for that is that you're actually not here just to be a frigging coach. You can coach all day long, but it's not who you're really here for. How you're really here. Why you're really here. Who you're really here to be, I'll get there eventually. It's to be an empress at the helm of the empire. Commanding the minions to do things. Okay that sounds really bad, but tell me you don't like the sound of it. And if you don't, don't apply, simple. Empress. It's time for some empresses to step into their empressness. Epressness. Empressory. Empressory. What does it say here on this comment. This is some damn compelling copy if I do say so myself. This came out of me like a woosh, like a woosh of magic and power. I was on a plane on the way to Bali, so much badassery comes out when I'm on Bali. Katrina Ruth: Ask valet guys to let you up or buzz again if they say no. The live stream people need to see you now. She said the buzzer didn't work. They are waiting. I have something to tell you. I'm just messaging her on what's up. All right. That stupid buzzer. My buzzer of my apartment, it's very snooty. It's very hoity-toity about who it will let in and not let in. It basically never lets Kelly Renee in. I think it started letting Kelly Renee in now, it will just let in whoever it likes. It usually lets Matt in, he should be here in not too long. My videographer. And it just basically selects who it wants in. Shogun ninjas. Yeah they are ninjas, they're actually ninjas. I guess I was referring to my children as the minions. You can't have them. But really ninjas, that's exactly right Carla. Who doesn't want ninjas. Let me tell you about Empress, I'm going to read it to you. It's such a kick in the ass read. It really is. It will reach into your soul. Hang on. Okay, no that was my blog. I almost accidentally read you my whole blog. Katrina Ruth: You should go read that, that is an ass kicking and a half. Empress, claim your rightful place now. Ready to play into the camera, give them a show. Turn the dial up and become a motherfucking star. Empress. Claim your rightful place now. Four weeks, one on one, with Katrina Ruth, excuse me, legal name, The Katrina Ruth Show ... for women unapologetically born for more. Jessa says ha, ha, okay. She'll be here shortly. This is what is missing ... listen to this, let it speak to your soul. I'm going to sermonise to you now. Sermonise. This is what is missing, you, you're a queen. Okay should be on the throne. But I'm just over the throne right now. You're a queen, a leader, a bad ass, we know this. You were born for it and it shines out of every pore of you, but more than that, you're a motherfucking empress. If you know that's true, shower me with love hearts now. Claim your place as an empress. Katrina Ruth: You're a motherfucking empress gorgeous, you've always known this and let's get real now. It might sting a little. This whole little game you're playing of, "I'm a coach, and teach this or that, or the other thing. Join my programme, sign up for my stuff, I'll teach you how. And I'll show you the process and how it can help you." Well it sounds pretty fucked up to me. Jessa is laughing at me in the background. I'm just taking off the stepford-preneurs. We'll bring her on shortly. You're going to have to say something amusing or she refuses to get on. She's very much the diva. It might sting a little. Oh I said that bit already. Okay this little game you're playing. Okay it was never going to cut it, was it now? No. Oh that hurt my boob. I flung my hand ... it keeps happening to me, I did it on a live stream with Patrick yesterday, I was like, "Hug. Ow." This left one is stuffed up, it doesn't want to be stretched too far. It's very juicy though. Katrina Ruth: It was never going to ... this is my sales video by the way, sales video. If we could chop it out and put it on a sale page, it would be as appropriate as fuck. It was never going to cut it now was it? No. This is not new information for you, der. You look around at all the things you tell yourself you have to do each day. The way you think you got to show up, sell, prove your worth, get people to want to learn from you, and therefore pay you ... why did I not think of putting this on a scripty thing on an iPad behind the tripod and I could have just read it and you would have thought I'm a magician. So well versed in my own copy, I am a magician. We'll talk about that in a moment. Magic and power, it's coming. I think I'm doing a good demo of it. What am I up to here? The way ... I did that bit. Katrina Ruth: The way, I'll do it again. The way you think you got to show up, sell, prove your worth, get people to want to learn from you, and therefore pay you, and what you don't see is that ... listen to this bit, write this shit down. Sit up fucking straight and pay attention Deneen and everybody else as well. You probably were already sitting up, since you just said that you're glad you didn't fall asleep ... the reason you were always meant to be paid ... Damn highly, I might add, is for people to be in your presence. In your aura. There's nobody laughing at me behind the tripod. So I can't be doing any live streams in public anymore, they've gone next, next level. To be in your aura. Is it true or is it true? To soak up the energy and the essence of you. Ode d'tea tree deodorant. Tea tree oil deodorant. And Chanel. To be lifted up and elevated to where they need to be, and into the action which automatically just goes with it, because of the way that you show up and shine. Katrina Ruth: This has nothing to do with what you teach. It's not a motherfucking strategy. I am giving you sales genius to read right now. Genius to read, so word, write it down. And you can break down the components of it all you like, but really it's a vibration thing. Okay this is where you know if empress is for you or not, because you've either got it or you don't. I can't give you that shit, I can't make you a motherfucking star, you already are the damn star and maybe you just need a little bit of soul alignment and adjusting and ass kicking. It's a vibration thing, you either got or you don't. If you got it, why are you not flaunting it? And you, well you have always had it, haven't you? You who knows who you are. Okay there's definitely some Vegemite with avocado and vegetables coming up right now. Have some coffee. All right. You always had it, haven't you? You've always been that person who shines so, full stop. Fucking full stop. Bright full stop. Katrina Ruth: Who sees the world in a particular way in which others do not, who has lived their life, that came out weird ... in a certain way in which others do not, who has quite literally trained for this shit. Since you were a young girl, as far back as you can remember, no need to pretend otherwise. You knew you were born for more. You looked around, I feel like Dr. Deuce now ... As though in a daze. Not quite understanding what everybody else was on about, so boring, or why they cared so much. So lame. And just kind of sort of always fucking realising, "Well. This is not where I am going to be anyway." Yes? Yes. "These are not my people. This is not my path. This is not the world I will operate in." It is as though your soul always knew, since before time even began, that you came from different stock. My god I'm a copywriting genius. Somebody should pay me for this shit, except I wouldn't do it for any money in the world, I'd do it for the fun. Katrina Ruth: For the fun and for the flow. I tell you how to write that shit out too. You were born into the wrong world, you had to spend time there for perhaps for learning, or growth, or just the gathering of patience, but it was always clear that one day ... Okay this sounds mean ... just as with an orphan, who dreams she is really born of royalty, reality, royalty? Same thing. Your real life would come for you. What you didn't realise, what you were perhaps never told ... and why would you be, because who would tell you back then, or even know ... but I'm telling you now. What you must now take ownership of, is that the life you've been waiting for this whole time, and the you who you've always known you must step into, it was never going to come for you at all. You have to step up for it. All right. When you're ... oh my goodness I want to stop but there's just a little bit more I've got to read, and then I've got some things to say. I'm getting fired up right now. Katrina Ruth: Now here we are. You show up online every day doing the do. Valiantly seeking to demonstrate why you are better coach, or even the best ... When actually you are not a motherfucking coach at all. And quite frankly the whole thing faintly sickens you, because when all is said and done and if you dare to admit it, you're just so much more than that. That's all. It's the way it's always been. You just didn't know you had to own it is all. And now, well you wonder why you struggle to break that next income level. You wonder why so many of the things you set out to do exhaust you, and you either don't do them ... and continually beat up on yourself for it ... give me a comment if read the [inaudible 00:25:29] of this ... or you do them and you resent every fucking second of it. You wonder what is wrong with you. Why you can't just get your shit done. Why you don't seem to think or feel like the other coaches. Katrina Ruth: And why it doesn't feel like flow yet when the whole damn point supposed to that you just get to wake up each day, follow your heart, create your art, do what you can't not. And you know that yes, it actually motherfucking was. So why does it not feel that yet, why is it that even when you're claiming flow and ease there is this constant fucking niggle there? Why? Why? Talking directly to you, [inaudible 00:26:04]. This constant fucking niggle there, I knew exactly why that niggle's there. I lost the word niggle on my screen right now though. It's a dilemma. Ah, this missing piece, this emptiness, this frustration, this won't you all fuck off and leave me alone energy. Yes, you should put a queenie emoji in if you know that this is you. Isn't it obvious? Don't you see? Haven't you always fucking known? You're not a coach. You're not an online business owner. You're not even actually an entrepreneur. Not if there's a period after it, anyway. Entrepreneur period? No. Entrepreneur amongst many other fabulous things. Yes. You can do all these things. Be all these things. Katrina Ruth: And indeed always will ... however, what you are, who you are, how it's always been, and why the whole damn thing is not in fact flowing as you know it could and should be, is because you are an empress baby. Lucky I didn't do this on the beach. Born for more. Born for exceptional. Born for extraordinary and not of this world. And you tell yourself how outrageous it is, to think so highly of you, to expect so much, to feel that really if the world were at rights with itself you would be in charge. Me, I'd be in charge. Just to be clear. You might feel the same way, but really it's me. We all know that. I don't mind for you, but it's really me.but you might think that you created a manifested me, but really it was me. But think whatever you like. You would be in charge. To know that you know, that you know, that people really need to shut the fuck up and listen to you. Katrina Ruth: And that actually you should always and only get to do what you want, have what you want, with the click of your fingers and the blink of your eyes and totally as you imagined it. And that while we're on it, people should motherfucking you pay just to be in your presence. Am I right or am I right. Give me an Amen if I'm right. You can do it via Amen, A-M-E-N period. With or without the period, or love heart shower, or little cat emojis. Whatever works for you. You tell yourself it's too much and crazy when in actual fact you know, and you've always known she says ... with a shrug of her shoulders and a what do you want me to do about it look ... this is just how it is. Which I suppose begs the question, when in actual fact do you think that you might start own the fact that this is how it is? Hmm? Hmm. I like that Amen Katherine, nicely done. How about ... Question, How about right fucking now? Empress, caps lock on, claim your rightful place, now. Katrina Ruth: Four weeks one on one with Katrina Ruth ... excuse me, The Katrina Ruth Show, legal name ... for women unapologetically born for more. Jess apply to have my changed to The Katrina Ruth Show. Go into the Queensland name changing register. I'm changing my surname to Show. And the first name's going to be The Katrina. And I'm not joking, just for laughs, straight no shenanigans. Jessa: Is it a space or two words? Katrina Ruth: Space. My first name is going to be The Katrina. And my middle name will be Ruth and my surname is Show. Jessa: I think it can be done. Katrina Ruth: Yes. She's doing it now. Ninjas, they're everywhere. Everywhere. What are we up to? Four weeks one on one with The Katrina Ruth Show for women unapologetically born for me. Empress energy and vibrations. Katherine's changing her last name to Empress, all in. Empress expectations and demands. With a humble, grateful attitude. Empress environment, every part of it. Empress empire, the whole shebang. Empress copy, it's a free bonus. You can have it when you come to the Darwin retreat. Empress motherfucking everything ... the way it was always supposed to be. It is time to stop playing so coy, pretending you want for so little and telling yourself a story. I'm channelling the version of me where I do my branding videos with Chris Collins in LA where I just turn it on ... I'm turning it on. Well I did write my blog this morning, Turn It On. It's time to stop playing so coy, I'll say it again. Pretending you want for so little and telling yourself a story. Katrina Ruth: That you're here to build a business online, make some money, be one of the fucking pack, when the only truth is always ... You were born to run the world. Beyonce as fuck. Run this thing. Empress initiation has begun. Your rightful place is waiting. This is one on one with me, the likes of which has never been done before ... Well actually it was done the first time that I ran Empress. But this is the second time. And that was fucking amazing and oh my holy Vegemite, wait till you see the feedback from that. I will share the testimonials. Whatever, it matters whether it's speaking to your soul or not, but still I will. It will take your breath away. It will shake you to the core. It will cause you to question everything you're doing right now ... Let's be honest, you already are. Katrina Ruth: What am I up to, I keep losing my place. And it will show you unapologetically why you feel so damn empty inside when you're supposedly doing everything you're meant to be doing. How can you feel what you're mean to feel, when it was always supposed to be about, and what it was always supposed to be about, when you haven't even actually begun on the life you really came here to build. There's a reason you feel like so much is missing, and here is what it is ... The thing you've been missing is being the real fucking you. Empress gorgeous, me and you. Claim your rightful place and everything which goes with it. When? Life is now. Time to be the motherfucking show. Private message me on my personal Katrina Ruth page for details. Goddamn it, I just made an entire sales video. Ash will be thrilled. That was quite a bit of shenanaginary that injected itself into the sales video. And do you know what else I did? I launched an entire retreat in Darwin. And you're coming as well by the way Jess. Jessa: Oh sweet. Katrina Ruth: Yep. That just happened on the live stream. Somebody said that they're there from Darwin and next thing we were planning an Airbnb of higher vibration [inaudible 00:32:05] in Darwin. It's going to be August 30th. Can you come? Jessa: Yes. Katrina Ruth: Would you like to go on the live stream? Do you have anything to say to people? She's thinking about it. she's considering it. Jessa: I don't have my ninja costume ready though. Katrina Ruth: You look amazing. Jessa: Well that's true. Katrina Ruth: Well that's true, it's obvious she says. She like, why do you even say such a silly thing. I don't know do we need to get another chair? Are we going to pull this chair over? Who wants Jess to appear on the live stream? Jess is the ... What are you even? She's the business manager, she's the mistress of the Millionaire Mastermind ... are you the mistress? The mother hen? Jessa: Someone said I was the sensei. Katrina Ruth: She's the sensei. Oh wise, one. Oh wise one. Jessa: Wise sensei. Katrina Ruth: Oh wise one, would you like to join me on my live stream wise one? Jessa: Yes, I feel [crosstalk 00:32:55] capes back here, I feel like [crosstalk 00:32:59]. Katrina Ruth: Put a cape on if you must, capes will make you look like Dracula, they're atrocious. Jess has never been on a live stream with me. Jessa: No. Katrina Ruth: Everybody's giving you a lot of love heart showers. You need 45 cushions. Don't appear without 45 cushions. You got to go get all the cushions. Jessa: [inaudible 00:33:18] yeah. Katrina Ruth: Because you'll feel like a little, so you'll feel like a little minion sitting down on that chair. Let me get you another purple cushion. Hold yourself tight right wherever you are. Don't hold yourself in a rude way, that's not what I meant by hold yourself tight. Well you can if you want. All right. You want to have one of them behind you. You want to sit on two cushions or maybe one, depends on how you feel. Perch, perch on the cushions. Jessa: She's going to have the lackeys now push apply cushions. Katrina Ruth: There we go, there's mini cushions. Jessa: I feel like there's too many cushions. Katrina Ruth: There's no such thing as too many cushions. Look at the side boob, would you? It's quite incredible. Okay somebody said ... one of my male friends said to me yesterday, why have I not sent him a photo of my breasts yet. And I was [inaudible 00:34:06]. That's not something I was planning to do. He was like, "Oh I just feel like whenever girls get their boobs done, they always want to show everyone." I'm like, "Well that's true, they do look amazing," but I'm trying stay within the realms of what's appropriate and not send before and after photos as requested to all my male friends. Jessa: I think it is now time to get you some of those Lady GaGa nipple [crosstalk 00:34:28]. Katrina Ruth: I'm not wearing nipple tassels. This woman is- Jessa: No tassels. Katrina Ruth: If someone is insisting in dressing me in bizarre things- Jessa: Sequined stickers. Katrina Ruth: Here she comes, give her a warm welcome. My sister Jessa, mistress, sensei, the ... What the fuck? Jessa: Den master? That was naughty. Katrina Ruth: Hold on, I didn't sign off on den master. Didn't we say ringleader? Jessa: Oh yeah, ringleader was one. Katrina Ruth: Really? Jessa: I like ringleader. Katrina Ruth: Let's have a vote, look at all the love that you're getting. You might speak to Jessa in a lot of my groups. And in fact we're going to do some filming today, that's why she's popped around. We're going to film a welcome video for the Millionaire Mastermind. Jessa: Yeah. Katrina Ruth: And you're going to get to know Jessa quite well in Millionaire Mastermind. But have you been on a live stream ... You might have done a live into High Vibe or something. Jessa: Yeah, I've done a live into High Vibe, I forced [inaudible 00:35:21] to do a live once. [crosstalk 00:35:24] Katrina Ruth: That's different, that's not you. You can't just say I forced someone- Jessa: Oh, well I was on it. Katrina Ruth: Oh you were in it. Jessa: Yeah. Katrina Ruth: Madam Lash. Jessa: Ooh, that's ... Katrina Ruth: It's not a sex programme, it seems to be going- Jessa: Yeah. Katrina Ruth: ... but I have helped many people manifest amazing sex of life, it's an [inaudible 00:35:39] thing that I'm doing. I'm okay with it, I'll go with it. Mistress- Jessa: How does the lash play into place? Because I'll lash people. Well, yes. I did buy multiple whipping props for [crosstalk 00:35:57]. Katrina Ruth: If you see me holding weird ass props in my live streams, I don't mean like a normal sceptre, like obviously a queen would ... but if you see me pick up like riding crop- Jessa: See these? These were bought because they are ninja swords. And you have ninjas around you all the time. Katrina Ruth: Then she's like, "Do you want some nipple tassels?" Tina says gorgeous, the colour. Tina's the one who initiated the Darwin retreat because she said she was in Darwin. And somehow we all co-launched a retreat together. Jessa also made me this Chanel hip flask. She made it. Jessa: Well, I designated a ninja to make it. Katrina Ruth: She outsourced it. Like an official ninja does. Jessa: Yes. Katrina Ruth: But she oversaw it, she oversaw the design of it. Jessa: I feel like we should write to Chanel and say, "Excuse me-" Katrina Ruth: I don't know why the fuck you got me a key as a prop, what is this supposed to do. Jessa: Oh it was relevant to something at the time and now it's irrelevant. Katrina Ruth: I feel like you had this key in my props for ages, I'm like, "But why? What is it the key for?" Is it for the door where all the dead wives of Bluebeard are? Jessa: Who is Bluebeard? Is he a pirate? Katrina Ruth: No, Bluebeard's the one who kills all his wives. It's actually ... Bluebeard is representative of the darkness of your psyche. Jessa: Or, it could be that you hold the key to everything. And that's why people follow you. Katrina Ruth: That's fucking obvious, nobody needed to say that. Jessa: Excuse me. [crosstalk 00:37:18] Katrina Ruth: Bluebeard, this is a great story. Bluebeard ... who knows the story of Bluebeard? Key to a kick ass life. Bluebeard gets his wives, he seduces them, and even though he has a blue beard which is clearly something to do with [crosstalk 00:37:34]- Jessa: Who knows? Katrina Ruth: ... and then he tells them that they can have the run of the whole castle and the whole house, and do whatever they like, but they must not go into this one room. And he gives them the keys with all the keys on it. And then he leaves. And so in the story the younger sister had her older sister there. The younger sister being seduced by Bluebeard even though it was scary. So she was going to marry him. And then her sisters and her all, "Let's look inside the room." And then they opened and it was all the dead bodies of all his previous wives. But then the room door lock started to bleed and bleed and bleed, and they couldn't wipe the blood off them, not even with horsehair- Jessa: Super random story. Is this some sort of twisted [crosstalk 00:38:15] Katrina Ruth: No, this is very- Jessa: This demonic story you found online. Katrina Ruth: Shush. This is very relevant. Sneaky, I'll joust with you right now. Jessa: I don't know, I'm a ninja. Katrina Ruth: So just on a side note, if you see me being really silly on live stream, or being an idiot it likely comes about from how my siblings and I behave normally all the time anyway. Jessa: Yes, we're always jousting. Katrina Ruth: Always jousting. All four of us, it's just complete idiots. And then the partners just leave the room. Jessa: We don't have have cutlery, we just take things with our jousting sticks. Stab them up and eat them like skewers. Katrina Ruth: I think I just snotted snot. And we do, we end up in hysterics. And then all the partners would always just be like- Jessa: Yeah. Katrina Ruth: ... and they will retire the lounge. Jessa: It's like they're coming to this new dimension they don't know. Yeah. Katrina Ruth: Because our parents get involved as well, they're just as weird. So then it's all six of us. So if you come around to my mum and dad's house, or you come hang out with me and my siblings, you're going to have to be as weird as fuck, or you're just not going to be able to keep up. Jessa: Yeah, you'll leave a little bit shell shocked otherwise. Katrina Ruth: It'll be soul shifting, with or without the money making. Yes, you may need some therapy and some actual healing after the result of that. Anyway. So Bluebeard, so then the blood just keeps coming out and she can't wipe the blood off her, which means that he's coming back and she knows that he's going to know that he went into the room. Jessa: That they went into the room. Katrina Ruth: Yes? Question. Jessa: But if they ... Do I get the key or the sceptre. Katrina Ruth: The microphone. Jessa: Oh. Katrina Ruth: Where is the motherfucking microphone? The kids took it. Jessa: Let me do this, question. Katrina Ruth: No I don't want that. I don't like that. All right, question. Jessa: Question, okay. So if he's got all bodies of his dead wives in there anyway, they're going to die anyway whether they look in the room or not. So you- Katrina Ruth: Exactly right. Jessa: ... always look in the room. Katrina Ruth: Exactly right. Exactly right. Are we invited to your parent's house or what? Well you can come here and we'll bring them to you. Jessa: They'll be a [crosstalk 00:40:40]. Katrina Ruth: My mother doesn't care for feet on her floors. You're not allowed into mum and dad's house unless you manage to not walk on the floor. Jessa: You have to tiptoe on your hands. Katrina Ruth: No floor, there's no floor there. You can't walk on the floor. But we could bring them here. And anyway, that was an excellent point that you raised. You're right, he was going to kill her anyway, but she discovered it. And then she's obviously terrified of him, that he's going to find out- Jessa: She's got her sister there, just fucking kill that guy. Katrina Ruth: I'm getting to the beard, calm your horses. Or your tits, whichever one. Calm your tits. So anyway, and that what happens is he comes back, so she tries to hide it from him, she's just wiping blood up, blood everywhere, it doesn't come off, it won't come off. She's using horse hair to scrub the key, the key is covered in blood ... I don't know why you gave me such a terrible prop to like prompt such a horrible story. Jessa: Because. Katrina Ruth: It's an important story though. And then, and then- Jessa: That's why I got the key. Katrina Ruth: ... well he discovers that she's been in there and he's furious and the monster is revealed. And she thought he was ... Stop trying to not laugh, just let it out and admit that I'm hilarious. So then the monster is revealed, and she thought he was loving, even though he did have a blue beard, which is always as suspicious sign on a gentleman. Jessa: Very suspicious. Katrina Ruth: I wouldn't be getting involved with any men with blue beards. Unless of course they were from Byron Bay- Jessa: And unless- Katrina Ruth: ... and they had some gluten free chocolate, white chocolate and [crosstalk 00:42:17]- Jessa: Johnny Depp. Katrina Ruth: Brownies. Jessa: Johnny Depp died his beard for you. Katrina Ruth: Johnny Depp, really? We can do better than that. Jessa: What if Bradley Cooper dyed- Katrina Ruth: Exactly. Jessa: ... his beard blue. Katrina Ruth: Exactly what I'm going for. Exactly. Jessa: You would be like mm-hmm (affirmative), smurf, yeah. Katrina Ruth: Smurf-alicious. Jessa: Smurf-alicious. Blue. Katrina Ruth: Hm. Back on track. Fucking focus. So anyway, then he's outraged and he's going to kill her and he tells her. And so she pleads with him for a moment to prepare her spiritual affairs. Because she's smart enough to know that she doesn't know how to escape right now but that she needs that little moment of time. And so she goes to the high tower and she says, "Sisters, sisters, can you see our brothers?" And they say, "No." And she says, "Sisters, sisters, can you see our brothers?" And they say, "I can see like a tiny, powdery speck on the horizon." And she says, "Sisters, sisters, can you see our brothers?" And they say "Yes, our brothers are coming." And then the brothers come and they kill him. And now I'll tell you the meaning of the story. Are you ready? Jessa: Do tell. Katrina Ruth: [crosstalk 00:43:23]. It's the motherfucking psyche. It's the darkness that exists in all of us as women, the dark and the wild and the raw and the scary. And it's that darkness inside of you which can ... If you don't know how to dance with it, actually consume you and take your life from you. And how mean women, all women, or all girls growing up, really you can try to do what you want to try and ... Did Matt just knock on the door? Jessa: Maybe. Katrina Ruth: Can you go check? Jessa: Yep. Katrina Ruth: Crack the door open anyway, because he'll be here any minute. You can do what you want to try and protect your daughters and protect the younger generation from making mistakes and doing silly shit that maybe going to hurt them or land them in trouble, but they're going to go it because they don't recognise the danger in the Bluebeard. They don't recognise you know the need to understand and be consciously in control of the darkness of the psyche. And so they allow the psyche to take them and maybe some of them get lost fully in the psyche and they're gone and they're killed and then put behind the door. Hello Matt. Matt: Hello. Katrina Ruth: You can film any time. I don't know what's happening right now. And so, did you hear that? So you try all you like to protect your daughters ... gosh your daughter's going to be protecting other people, that's for sure. She is terrifying. And extraordinary beautiful as well. Which is a really scary combination. Jessa: She deviates from sweet and scary. Katrina Ruth: She lifts dining tables over her heads ... her head. Jessa: Her heads. Katrina Ruth: What was the other random thing she did. Jessa: That makes her sound more scary. And she insists on keeping eating chilli sauce. Katrina Ruth: She eats Tabasco. She drinks it from the bottle. She's two. Two. Two. We're out the other night and we get a photo of her just hoisting the dining table up over her head. And she drinks motherfucking Tabasco sauce. And I'm not even kidding. Jessa: [crosstalk 00:45:29] her three and a half year old brother- Katrina Ruth: And she's two years old. She's terrifying. Jessa: ... to help her out with the dining table. Katrina Ruth: As a ninja. Jessa: Yeah. But she initiated. Katrina Ruth: That girl's scary. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. It's the darkness of the psyche. So you can try to protect your daughter's all you like from making silly mistakes, or the younger generation. They're going to do whatever the fuck they want. You can tell them all you like about the bluebeard, about the darkness, about the places to not go or look or they're just going to do what they want anyway. They're going to have their own experience. And hopefully they then catch it in time. And so when she's yelling for her sisters, when she's locked in the tower, you know she realised in time that he was going to kill her, so she asked for a reprieve to go to the tower to have a moment to collect her spiritual affairs. So she's realised that oh, maybe this is not safe and maybe her older sisters were already wiser and knew that. So then in that time, she's yelling, "Can you see our brothers? Can you see our brothers?" And they can't see them, because basically it represents that she doesn't have the knowledge or the wisdom in her psyche to know how to deal with her situation yet- Jessa: So she's calling it out? Katrina Ruth: Yeah, but it does exist in there, it exists in there. So then she asks again, "Sisters, sisters can you see our brothers?" And then they're like, "Well we can't see anything, but there's a little dust on the horizon," and it's like the knowledge is coming. The ability to deal with this stuff is coming. Females need to embrace the darkness as well as the light. That's right. We have to go through this experience. And then ultimately the monster is destroyed and and she's safe and she learned something and she goes on her way. It exists in all women ... How the fuck did we end up there? Bluebeard, we're talking about Bluebeard. Did you know the story of Bluebeard? Jessa: The key, this was the reason that the key was bought. Katrina Ruth: This is why we have a key that's covered in blood. Jessa: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes. Katrina Ruth: I was going to talk about magic and power- Jessa: But the pipe is to make you look more wise. Katrina Ruth: That's the pipe. I don't smoke a pipe. Who buys a pipe? Jessa: Yes, but you could be in the study, you know, making wise commentary. Katrina Ruth: I'm always in the study making wise commentary. Wherever I am I'm always making wise commentary. That's a normal situation of fucking everyday life. Jessa: All right, I'll fucking sell the pipe. Katrina Ruth: Oh. Swear on my live stream, how dare you. Jessa: Oh dear. Katrina Ruth: Irreverent. Well the brothers and sisters save her, but they represent the other parts of her psyche- Jessa: So you can't take it literally. Katrina Ruth: ... the wiser part- Jessa: Because I was like, why would she be needing her brothers, because you'd deal with that yourself? Fuck yeah. Katrina Ruth: I like how the men deal with things. Jessa: It depends. Katrina Ruth: Well the sisters are the more evolved wiser parts of the psyche and the brothers are the protective parts of the psyche, I think in the story. Jessa: So in my life story, you're just the more evolved part of my psyche. Katrina Ruth: Good on you mate. I'm finding these [inaudible 00:48:24] very distracting. Jessa: Very Grand Prix. Katrina Ruth: Yeah what's happening here, are you going to the Formula One afterwards? Matt: Yup. Katrina Ruth: Okay. Sorry I'm just in a very silly mood. All right. Now what were we up to? Magic and power. We'll say something about that, and then we've got to go, we've got to go. You guys are holding us up, you're just mucking around and climbing around and stopping us from doing what we're really meant to be doing. I was supposed to ... We've got to do some filming here. I was supposed to be live streaming on you know how fucking powerful and magical you are, and that is a fact. Reason being, I messaged that to someone an hour or so back, and we were having a conversation and I was like, "Let's get clear. You know how fucking powerful and magical you are." I know it. All my clients know it. All my friends know it. Jessa knows it. Matt knows it ... I mean about themselves even, and you know it as well. Everyone knows it about me, that's a given. But you do know it about yourself. Katrina Ruth: So you know sometimes when you're in the doubt, or you're in the resistance, or you feel uncertain about getting your message or your ad out there. Or you're like, I could never carry on ... I mean I'm just assuming you want to carry on like me on a live stream ... but really, why would you not want to be a complete clown and have fun and make money doing it? And then you think I'm not good enough for that or I can't, or I don't have it within me or something like that. Really what I wanted to come on today and say today and then somehow a whole bunch of random shit happened is ... Beneath the fear and beneath the uncertainty. Beneath the doubt, beneath the "Maybe I'm not born for this," you do fucking know and that is a fact. Or you wouldn't be here. So when you feel all that stuff, it's the surface stuff. That's not how you actually feel at the core. Katrina Ruth: And it's ... what it is is just layers. Layer upon layer upon layer. Get me an onion and I'll demonstrate. Except we don't have onions, because I hate them. It's devil's food. What can I demonstrate with. Get me a packet of bread out of the fridge. Yes, it's true. I have bread, it's embarrassing. Jessa: What? Do you [crosstalk 00:50:22]. Katrina Ruth: Bring me the bread. Jessa: Okay. Katrina Ruth: Bring me the bread. I'm going to do a live demonstration. This has been best live stream in the history of time. So far we launched an entire retreat in Darwin ... maybe you can come to that? Matt: When's that? Katrina Ruth: August 30th. Say hello to the camera. Are you there? Am I showing you? Matt: Yeah, I'm on. Katrina Ruth: There's Matt. Maybe Matt can come to the Darwin retreat because that definitely sounds like something we would want- Matt: I've never been to Darwin. Katrina Ruth: Me either. And then somebody from Darwin popped on the live stream and said hi from Darwin, and suddenly I said I think we should do a retreat in Darwin. Matt: Why not? Katrina Ruth: And we just co-created it right here. It's going to be on August 30th. We're going to get an amazing Airbnb, it'll be four nights, it'll be soul shifts and money making and lots of shenanigans. And lots of adventures. Matt: Yeah. Jessa: I feel like I should deliver this on a platter. Katrina Ruth: Get me a platter. Jessa: Like I could buy you one. Katrina Ruth: Can I have a platter? Jessa: Right now? Katrina Ruth: Bloody hell. All right, there is bread in my house, it's embarrassing. Helen said, Matt's cute. He hears that all the time, he's very used to it. Especially from my audience. Jessa: You know you could peel [crosstalk 00:51:27] Katrina Ruth: I don't know is it just my audience or do you get that whenever you're filming? Matt: Oh it depends who it is. Katrina Ruth: It's probably just all these women. Okay so we have here- Jessa: Lots of crumbs. Katrina Ruth: ... a very flaky packet of bread. It's gluten free. It's Paleo as fuck, don't worry. Should we get some [inaudible 00:51:45]- Jessa: Well you may as well have a snack. Katrina Ruth: I already was like face first in a jar of Vegemite earlier this morning. Now my dad's got a café and they're like, "Uh, there's Vegemite on your face." Burn the bread. So anyway, this is the BL layout. No it's not. This is the layer that you present to ... This is going to be a great skit by the way. Jessa: Yes. Katrina Ruth: This is the layer you present to Facebook, okay? On Facebook you're like, la-di-da, look at me, my hair is glowing and I look fabulous. Or even if it's not, you post some happy, chappy photos and your life is amazing. That is your surface layer. Surface layer, say it after me. Surface layer. My ninja will take that for me. Beneath, okay we don't need a crust. There's just a crust there just for no reason. Jessa: Crusts should be thrown out- Katrina Ruth: Why is the crust in the middle? Jessa: ... immediately after opening the bread. Katrina Ruth: The crust is the best bit. Jessa: That's disgusting. Katrina Ruth: This is the next layer, as you can see. This layer is the fear layer. This is the what if people really knew ... I know I've got to look at this camera. You'll excuse me. What if people really knew the truth about me? What if they knew that I've been [inaudible 00:52:50] all night long. That I'm drinking an excessive amount. That I yell and shout at my children. That I'm not really a nice person. That I have fucking clue what I'm on about and every day I'm worried that the fraud police are going to knock on the door and be like, "Hey. We have evidence to prove you're not a real adult. Everybody knows." That's the fear layer, lurks underneath the other layer. Okay we've got another Matt is cute, why was I not informed. I'm sorry I didn't have a prior arrangement with you Ellen that I have to inform you. I guess you could just watch more of my shows and then you'd see more. So that's the fear layer, everyone has it and you don't want everyone to know. Katrina Ruth: Underneath the fear layer, you have the fuck this shit layer. Official Wikipedia terminology. Fuck this shit layer. That is like, "Actually I'm pretty fucking certain that I know exactly what I'm doing and I don't know what these bitches over here think that they're doing, but I should be in charge." Fuck this shit layer. We should have prepared these breads earlier and written on them. Jessa: Oh that would have been good. Katrina Ruth: That would have been awesome. Underneath the fuck this shit layer, you have the despair layer. It's okay, we all have it, no need to get fat. The despair layer, the "I really don't think I actually know what I'm doing at all and I feel kind of hopeless. And I feel down and sometimes I feel completely lost and meaningless. Nobody really understands me, and I'm probably never, ever going to get there and I should probably just give up now." Despair layer. Lisa says she's in bed right now wallowing in that layer. Thank you for owning it. Underneath the despair layer, it's just a chocolate layer. It's a layer of chocolate mud cake. Underneath the chocolate layer is the core. The core. The core is solid, it's gritty. It's not at all flaky, this one is. It's solid, it is rock solid. It's a diamond. It's a fucking diamond. Do we have a big ass diamond anywhere in this room that I- Jessa: Oh no. We should. Katrina Ruth: ... can use? It is hard as steel. And this layer knows that all the other layers, except for the chocolate layer and the fuck this shit layer, are bullshit. It knows that the surface layer ... go through it again, in case anybody missed it. Have the crust. It's getting messy. I just had the house cleaned this morning as well. It knows that the surface, shiny Facebook layer is like, whatever. Who fucking even cares? It knows that the fear layer is actual bullshit. The core knows that the fear is bullshit. It knows that the fuck this shit layer is kind of like, cool, cool, but me thinketh the lady doth protesteth too much. Everyone knows what that means, right? Jessa: Yeah. Katrina Ruth: If you don't you have to leave. It knows that the ... what are we up to? Wait, I feel like I've got an extra layer that's been added in. Oh despair layer. It knows that the despair and sadness layer is just reactivness and resistance playing out. It's the human as fuck condition, it's okay, we're all allowed to have it. It knows that the chocolate layer is not going any fucking place and we'll hold on to it forever. And it knows that the core is the core. At your core, underneath all the layers, you know that you were born for it. You know that you were absolutely fucking born for it. You know you are magic, you know you are powerful. You know you are here to change the world. You know that everything you feel inside of you is real and that if you would only just throw all of ... It had to be done. If you would just throw all the layers off of you, then you would be living, breathing from the core. And all I did was let out the motherfucking core. Katrina Ruth: The [inaudible 00:56:28], give me them back to me, I need them back. No not really. The other layers they just heap themselves back on, back on, back on, all the time, every day. Sneaking up on me like invisible little evil ninjas and I'm just throwing them away all the time. Left, right, and centre. And I remain at my core, the whole story. Thank you for playing. Life is now. Press fucking play. What would you like to add? Jessa: Oh I don't know what I can add to that. Katrina Ruth: Any additions? Well, I feel like I said what I came here to say. In fact I said none of what I came here to say at all. But it was fabulous and so now we have to go. We have many very serious and important things to do. No shenanigans at all. But basic point is, you fucking know that you were born for it. Don't walk around saying that you're not. Man or woman the fuck up and do your shit. And when it comes up inside of you, just throw the bread layers off you and think of me. Get a chocolate layer if necessary or a coffee layer, or whatever it is. And why don't you just fucking pretend that you're already living from the core layer the whole time anyway? Nobodies going to know the difference. And then one day you'll wake up and you will have become it. Jessa: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Katrina Ruth: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's the whole story. Jessa: That was fun. Katrina Ruth: So now you should watch the replay if you missed any, because the whole thing was amazing. And then you should read the comment in there and Empress has returned, you should private message me if you want to be an empress ... My golly gosh, that was probably the favoritest new thing that I ever did. And the Darwin retreat. Jessa's coming, Matt might be coming, we check our dates. It is going to be beyond. We're going to have 10 women, plus ninja, plus videography, plus shenanigans ... One incredibly luxurious high end Airbnb house. Many Paleo as fuck, espresso martinis, many shenanigans, we're going to hustle. We're going to do money making and soul ... sell ... What's it called again? Soul and cellular shifts- Jessa: [crosstalk 00:58:33] Katrina Ruth: ... and money making. And we're definitely going to do some random as fuck adventures in nature. Jessa: Ride crocodiles. Katrina Ruth: And then we're going to figure out ... We're going to ride ... I told you the American side can't be scared about this. And then we're going to do some sort of equivalent adventure in California. What's a good mountainous part of California? Come on. Matt: I don't know. Tahoe's it. Katrina Ruth: Huh? Matt: Tahoe? Katrina Ruth: I've been to Lake Tahoe but I went in the snow. Matt: I was in the snow as well. Katrina Ruth: Oh. Matt: Brother went as there, summer's good as well. Katrina Ruth: Maybe it will be on Lake Tahoe. Yeah, it was on the way to Lake Tahoe that we stopped at some incredibly mountainous place where we had pancakes. And the pancakes were good so I think we should go back to that. Jessa: Well, okay. Katrina Ruth: I have no idea where it was. Well anyway, we'll do it, we'll do it, we'll figure it out. So that's happening. Message me on my personal PMs please, because it can't be fucked with the business page, PMs there annoy me, I won't read them. I make Jessa do it or somebody else. She doesn't do it. Jessa: No, a ninja does it. Katrina Ruth: That's all. Lake Tahoe or Big Bear. Big Bear, hmm. Mount Tamalpais ... Matt: What's the one that starts with Y? Katrina Ruth: Yosemite. Matt: Yeah that's [crosstalk 00:59:42] Katrina Ruth: Yeah, maybe it will be Yosemite. I don't want to do it in Sedona, it's like, so over-rated. What was that expression again? Jessa: Oh, I don't do- Katrina Ruth: I don't do Sedona. We have a little in-house joke going on here. I don't do Sedona. I don't do Sedona. All right, we have to go. It's going for too long. Up you go, they're holding us up. Okay. Watch the replay, message me about Empress or about the other thing, the Sedona thing ... No, not that one. We're not doing that. The Darwin thing. Just send me a message anyway, to tell me how much you love me. And Jessa has a very important finishing statement. Jessa: Oh. Life is now? Press play. Katrina Ruth: Press fucking play. Bye.

That "I'm not ready" feeling.   It creeps in every time you want to expand, to get bigger with your message. And your 3 Word Rebellion? Well that requires you to get bigger. (If you don't know what a 3 Word Rebellion is, go to threewordrebellion.com and check it out) That 3 Word Rebellion requires you to take up more space, to speak its truth every day of the week. When you and I see that requirement, it is so easy to let the "I'm not ready" feeling to creep in. I hear it all the time when I'm on decision making calls with potential clients. They tell me "I'll be ready when I reach seven figures in my business." "I'll be ready after I work with this coach and then take this other course and then maybe do this mastermind program.” "I'll be ready when I finish the book or launched the course or teach the workshop..." "I'll be ready when life settles down"  Side note, rebels, it never will. "I'll be ready when I have large expanses of time to focus on my message." Here's the rebel truth: You'll always move the readiness finish line. Your readiness to spread the message to get known for the work you do is not dependent on being more, taking more courses, getting another degree, or making a gazillion figures. Your readiness depends on your decision to feel uncomfortable.   Because "I'll be ready" keeps us safe when we know we have to move out of our comfort zone. So how do you know when you're really ready? Here are three signs that you’re ready to get out there and be seen and know for your 3 Word Rebellion.

Today we have Dallas based agent and real estate investor Ian Flannigan. From an investment real estate agent to Ian has been in the real estate industry for over 15 years and has come a long way gaining a diverse background around investment property sales and distressed properties and has become an expert at it travelling around the country speaking on creative financing and topics.  Ian talks to us about what attracted him to EXP and his transition coming out of a franchise system and joining EXP. He touches on the things that led him to decide to move all of his businesses including his investment business his brokerage business etc. over to EXP Realty  He brings a business owners perspective not just a listing and selling agents perspective.  Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.     In this episode. The Investor & Business Owner's Perspective  Creating Cashflow and building assets Benefits the Cloud provides Equity and revenue share Being the exponential earner Getting awarded EXP shares and becoming an EXP icon The compound effect on my revenue share & referrals  Predicting your income   Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Ian to inquire or ask questions. Contact Ian: Text at  214 213 1737  Links: www.EXPCloud.com   Take away "you borrow capital you'll leverage it against a property and then you receive that cash flow. The reality is not too many people ever get to that point" Ian Flannigan   Podcast Transcription Kevin: Welcome back to another episode of In The Cloud the EXP realty explain podcast I am host Kevin Cottrell. Joining me today is Dallas based agent and real estate investor Ian Flannigan Ian is going to tell us about his transition coming out of a franchise system and then working for a transaction based brokerage to decide to move all of his businesses including his investment business his brokerage business etc. over to EXP Realty and why he did that. He brings a business owners perspective not just a listing and selling agents perspective. Ian and I are going to talk about things ranging from equity revenue share and the other things that attracted him to EXP realty. Please stay tuned for my interview with Ian Flannigan. Welcome to the show Ian. Ian: Hey how's it going. Kevin: It's going awesome. I'm looking forward to our conversation now for any of the listeners the podcast that may not be familiar with you once you take a minute and give your background and history as far as real estate. Ian: I've been in real estate for almost about 15 years and I was a young hairdresser in my past life. We all have that story right? So you know I read that book Rich Dad Poor Dad and made me realize that I was you know spinning my wheels as a self-employed business owner. I didn't own a business I owned a job and just like you know we have friends that are attorneys you know real estate agents. Well you know all that stuff that they had these commission businesses and stuff like that so I knew that I had to make a change so I started studying real estate and I started flying around the country go into seminars was like a lot of people I didn't come into the business through the licensing side I came through the investing side which I really cherish that information because I have a very intimate knowledge of how the legal process works with pre foreclosures. We know probate houses people losing their houses the tax liens. I mean I've bought fire damaged houses all kinds of very interesting distressed property situations. I've become an expert at it and I've traveled around the country speaking on creative financing and topics like that because I ran a big seller financed real estate model for quite a long time and like I said I wasn't licensed I leveraged to brokerage's one in Oklahoma City one here in Dallas and we used all of our marketing and we ran all of our leads through them. I learned the business on both sides so when I was drafting my own contracts two years before I ever got a license so you know the market changed and I felt like I left a lot of money on the table so I started. I realized that like look I'm going to get go ahead and get my license because I'm processing so many deals through my investment company. So I might as well do it so you know I got my licence I hung out with Keller. Keller was a great company at the time, for me it wasn't a good fit. When I moved my licence over to a 100 % shop and it was a much better fit for my needs at the time but I had a big exit out of my investment company and everything that I had built over the last nine years kind of came to an end and I knew that I needed to buy and sell houses I knew I needed to list and sell houses but I also knew that I had to build more cashflow and I needed to build more assets because I just made an exit out of a company and it was a very interesting time in my life because I went through a legal divorce. You know I went in business with these wealthy individuals that were coming out of it luckily everything the dust settles all right. I came out OK but you know I knew that I had to build something again and when I saw the model with the EXP I was like oh my gosh this is interesting because there have been nothing like it that I've ever seen. So that's how I got to be. Kevin: Great! So you have a diverse background especially around investment property sales and distressed properties. When you looked at EXP you mentioned like myself I was a team leader at Keller Williams for a long time great company but the EXP is.. You know especially and I want to chat about this for a minute. It's a different model. When you talked about Rich Dad Poor Dad in thinking like a business owner that I think the industry has seen so there's a lot of noise and information out there that is confusing for real estate agents. In other words I want you to take a few minutes and talk a little bit about how you process this as a investor slash business owner because for real estate agents listen to this a lot of them have a commissioned sales job and they need some help understanding how to think like a business owner. Ian: You know that that couldn't have been the more perfect way to explain that because you know being an investor we have to think about OK how are we going to get money out in the market. This is how our thought processes we have X amount of capital we can leverage capital and we're going to put that money out into the market either short term or long term and then we're going to get a return on it's going to be a four month timeline a six month timeline. So that's what we're doing when we're buying and selling houses right we're thinking of it as a business it's not on the other side of the track where when you're listing agent it's a different experience because you don't own the house you're not responsible for the repairs utilities all that other stuff it's just a different ball game but it's a great way for someone to be able to get into the market and that's what almost drives me crazy about getting a real estate licence. Was I did that in a couple of weeks it took me almost a year to get a licence to cut hair in the state of Texas as it was mindblowing how different it was but my point is you know getting into real estate is the barrier to entry isn't that you know it's not very difficult. So there's a lot of people coming in and they don't really think of it like a business. They don't know that they have to put themselves out into the marketplace and sell themselves as a business owner so they get stuck in just that hamster wheel of the commission side of the business still thinking of it from an investment standpoint is like like oh my gosh this company... Forget the name forget all of it just look at your balance sheet and what are you doing on your balance sheet. Right you've got income expense asset liability what are you doing to create income in your business that you only have a commission type of business you only have one source. So this is the way that I see it because I built a seller financed model by leveraging capital we would raise millions of dollars actually. We didn't raise millions of dollars until after we placed it because one of our limited partners was our lender. So we had in-house lines of credit and I was buying you know five to 10 houses a month that I was selling them on owner financing and carrying back a note and we were archiving basically building a big huge spreadsheet of notes right. So once my mind opened to that like I knew that there were so many different ways to make money in real estate but once you find one model that you can't replicate and duplicate... And that's what exactly what I was doing with seller financing I was buying a house. I was renovating that house and that I was selling it and carrying back a note. And the more notes that I could create the more money I could borrow because we had we were building. A balance sheet of. Assets. Yes we had debt on it but. Our cash flow was compounding. Our interest was compounding. So having that experience with selling houses in volume like that and then carrying back notes like a bank that's what expanded my mind into understanding how to create massive amounts of cash flow and that's traditionally how you do it you borrow capital you'll leverage it against a property and then you receive that cash flow. The reality is not too many people ever get to that point even when they've been in real estate 15 20 years especially if they're coming from the licensing side of the world unless they have some mentors and coaches that were great that helped them put money back in you know build assets outside of their license that would be great. But most people never experience that. So when I saw EXP I really understood like oh my gosh like I got it immediately. Not only could I you know sell houses I could get you know software and technology to plug into to sell more houses because the training in EXP is you know second to none which people don't realize is the support and the training in the cloud is 100 times more effective more efficient. I mean the words just go on and on and on that describe how well you know it is and how easy it is to plug into the cloud. It's... The support and training is you can access it from anywhere in the world any time. There are no restrictions on getting in your car driving down to the road like that is gone that is over we plug into the cloud. So. That's one of the biggest takeaways of you know. Jumping into that is the time right we're all trying to... Maximize our time. So you know not driving down to offices. I had a huge office on the eighth floor overlooking. Downtown Dallas and I hated it because I had to get my car. I had to drive down to the office. Much more efficient with the home based office than I'd take my laptops and I got my Wi-Fi. So when I travel. I'm connected so. That I was the one thing is offloading that big expense of an office so that's the biggest thing that the cloud provides. And you know. To grow business you've got to reduce your expenses and grow your cash flows. And grow your transactional cash flow too. Kevin: So let me ask you a question regarding the business small as a business guy. You know so when you're traditionally a commission based business you know like you said that's one stream of income. When you look at the two big plays that EXP let's talk about the one being equity and the other being revenue share. The market really doesn't get this from the standpoint of the way startups work in Silicon Valley that's where I come from. You know so they look at it. I'm a real estate agent. I'm at XYZ brokerage I'm at independent it could be a big franchise. I go through my business I sell own a bunch of houses every year and either take listings and so on will get buyers at the end of the year or if I run my business well like you said I make a little bit of money. Ian: Yeah. Kevin: Now meanwhile there are people like Sherry Elliott who you know because she's in your marketplace that come on the podcast and go Hey by the way I'm buying a EXP stock for 20 % below on the commission plan. I've also been awarded it as an Icon for several years. You know I look at my account and I've got seven hundred thousand dollars in equity and if you'll look around a big franchise market center or office I would challenge you and you know this because you're in the marketplace. This is where the market doesn't get it right. There are not people running around with 150000 like I met an agent here in Austin or 700000 like Sherry Elliott where this is just occurring on automatic investment because the average agent just at the end of there like oh how many units did I sell. Ian: Exactly. That's you know the biggest part of about the business model is. Having that that potential to be what we call the exponential earner right. How you can scale a business. And adding stock and equity to your balance sheet. You know it's like sitting down with a financial planner and saying hey we're going to take a little bit of your cash we're going to put it here again take a little bit more your cash. We're going to put it here and then over time we're going to let this grow. And that's what people don't understand is. EXP offer's.... It's almost like a 401k for real estate agents. So as they're closing transactions moving forward paying into the brokerage we're actually getting a return on the money we're paying in. Right. Especially with the stock program that we have you know there's actually you know there's six different ways to get stock. One is to buy over the counter. Another is when you close your first transaction with the EXP you'll get awarded I believe it's 50 shares right now that could be off because the numbers are changing so fast I can't keep track of them but you'll get awarded shares of stock when you close your first transaction and then when you cap once you sell you know two point six six or about three million depending on what commission structure you're on 2.5 or 3 % whenever you cap you'll get more shares of stock I believe around 100 shares right now and then here's the cool part is if you sell 20 houses after your cap which a lot of team leaders do and a lot of brokers do they do a lot of volume or if you're a commercial and you sell about half a million then you can qualify to become an Icon. And then there's a panel that vote you and once you get qualified. You can receive your entire cap backing company stock which is sixteen thousand dollars just awarded back to you in company stock and that is pretty darn amazing. Because think about that. All the other franchise models that are out there there are great companies. You know. Nothing has changed in real estate in the last hundred years. Now the Internet has finally caught up with the brick and mortar real estate model. And no longer are agents being you know paying every dime in you know into their brokerages and not seeing a return on it. So it's a completely different mindset from this day forward of technology and growth and all that it's just changing the game in you know the billion dollars in expenses that all the big companies have. What do you think they're going to be in five and 10 years. I mean the internet has completely changed everything. But but that's why it's so important to build a future. And we haven't even talked about the revenue share. I mean you know as you're closing transactions you can be accumulating stock just through production. So every transaction you close your laying stock you have to think about that is building assets on a balance sheet. So back the very first thing we first started talking about where is why is what attracted me was understanding that I could build and compound more and more line items of assets on my balance sheet like in a spreadsheet. When you see cash flow coming at you in a spreadsheet and you see a total at the bottom and that total gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger by adding more line items of assets to your balance sheet. When I saw the revenue share model my mind was blown. And I've been in the company two years in what I've seen happen in the last two years. I mean I just stopped telling people the numbers because they're so big it just It's not relevant to them right. How does anyone relate to the kid that won the 450 million dollar Powerball in Florida. Like how is that relevant to me right. That's a massive amount of cash. It's like you know it's just one of those things. What do you think about that. Kevin: It's exactly what people miss. I talked to somebody last weekend. She's in Southern California and I'm glad you brought up the Icon program because as I started to ask her questions I could see that because she comes from a big franchise system that she was confused by the noise and information and other words they're trying to basically make it not clear that you're getting an equity award if you qualify for the Icon program of 16000 and that that's highly highly difficult to actually obtain that. Well as you mentioned either based on GCI or 20 transactions above capping. Ian: That's right. Kevin: There are very clear terms on how you qualify for this. So in her case she's got a big presence right. So I asked her some questions and just to clarify for our listeners in her case I said well how many referral fees on top of capping right she does about four or five million dollars a year. So she easily qualifies based on capping and she's in a high priced market in Southern California. I said well how many referrals did you do. She said I did I think somewhere around eight or nine referral fees that I got paid back to me last year. I said do you do any leases you're in a pretty high price market you've got to have people that are looking to lease houses and she goes I did it at least 10 of those on top of my real estate transactions. I said well just the referral fees and the leases are 18 transactions. How many did you do above. Approximately three million in volume. She goes well I have like another six transactions on top of that based on her pricing. I'm like OK well in our model you would be an Icon. Ian: That's right. Kevin: She's like I have no idea. I'm like yeah that's exactly how this program works. And assuming that you want to participate you're going to get all of your money back after you basically qualify based on transactions and you know the other structure and then for anybody listening to this you can certainly reach out we'll have some more information about the Icon program in this and other episodes. But don't let the marketplace confuse you. This is a real program. We can refer you to plenty of icons within EXP to talk to them about qualifying. Some of them have qualified for more than one year. In other words this isn't some promo special like you'd have at the car dealer where they're doing it once right. We have icons that have been here for more than two years that have qualified. Every year their hair. So the whole purpose of this podcast and I'm glad you brought this up is to have people understand because as a business owner at most brokerages there is no way to qualify to get your company dollar back. Right they just don't offer programs like that specially around equity which is an appreciating asset in most entities like this. So you absolutely are in a position to create value. I mentioned two numbers and now I want to tie this down. There is a agent I met at one of the meet greets right one of the EXP explained meetings and when this came up about Sherry Elliott in the conversation she said well I don't have a big mega team right. I'm a Capper. I do business and I've been investing in EXP stock through the program that Ian talked about where you can divert 5 % of your commissions. She said I have a hundred and fifty five thousand dollars in less than two years in my equity account. I would challenge any listener here if you're in a franchise or even an independent brokerage. Go look at your equity account and go ahead and send me a message if you have a hundred and fifty five thousand of your company's stock in there. And I think you and I know the answer is not unless you're buying at the market and you happen to work for a company that's traded right there's companies like Real Ajee or Remax or others out there that you could buy stock but you're not buying it for 20 % below market. Ian: Now you've got to buy it at today's value which it's been going down. Kevin: Let's transition a little bit to revenue share I'm going to give you my perspective and then I want to hear yours as a real estate investor so Gene-Frederic and I come out of the team a role or the regional owner role if you will at a big franchise system Keller Williams in particular but they all work the same way right. So one of the big things that were trying to basically make sure that agents understand is in a franchise system and if you are lucky enough to be around Keller Williams in the early days and this would be in the 90s right Gene-Frederic and Susan joined in the early 90s. They along with others had the opportunity to invest and buy regions right Gene-Frederic in particular with a couple of partners own Northern California Hawaii. Ian: I actually hung my license at DPR and live right down the street from where they used to live in Plano Texas. Kevin: That's awesome. And so for anybody looking at this the way regional owners are paid in franchise system and I'll speak specifically for Keller Williams is the royalties are taken off the top and they are paid half to the regional owners and have to the regional operating company in Austin. Right. So half and half. So one of the interesting variants of information out there in the marketplace is taking money off the top. It's not sustainable. Well if Remax does it if Keller does it. If all of the real Ajee franchises do this and if they have a regional operating partners or owners they're all paid this way then I challenge anybody that has been told that to go back and ask the person that told you this is this not how our franchise system the regional owners get paid. And the answer I'll just give you the answer is yes. So don't let anybody tell you that paying money off the top out of the revenue stream is not sustainable. This is exactly what EXP is doing. They don't have regional owners. From the standpoint of anybody buying in and owning Northern California Hawaii like Gene and Susan did with their partners. You are paid as a regional owner any EXP so to speak and I'm using that term broadly and loosely but it's the same concept off the top. Based on agents that are attracted to the company they become like your regional owner group. So with that as a precursor so people understand the concept here. This is not any different than what the franchise are doing. Ian what's your perspective on this as a business opportunity. Ian: So the way I see it and then you can correct me if I'm wrong that you know this is a big referral type of based payment right. Everyone understands. Getting a referral you mentioned the referral a moment ago. I have someone in California. I have a lead in California. I'm in Texas. I contacted agent say hey I have a great lead for you. They're jumping up and down because it's a five million dollar acquisition. So they think I've hung the moon. And I come and I go back to that same age and I say Hey. Here's the business model. That I'm operating around the entire country if you're interested in it and you're attracted to it and you like it. I could sponsor you into this model and then I could show you how to expand that. Across the entire United States as well. So now I sponsor that age in California. Now every time they close the transaction I'm going to get paid a referral fee. How cool is that. Right. And then every time they attract somebody. Into the company underneath them they could be in Seattle they could be and. They could be in. WASHINGTON They could be in Florida. They could be down in Alabama taxes Arizona. Every time those agents close transactions not only is that agent that I sponsored in California are going to make a referral now I'm going to make a referral fee off of another 20 agents. And wow the crazy thing about this model is every single person is on the same plan and they all want to expand their business so now I get organic compound and kind of like compound interest. So I'm getting a compound effect on my revenue share because now I've gone from two agents to 4 agents to eight agents to 12 to 24. I've expanded my revenue share business into 14 states and Canada and I just hit 84 agents and almost 30 of them hit my team in the last 60 days. So I'm now getting the organic compound effect of the duplication of what makes this lucrative revenue sharing model so amazing. Kevin: I've interviewed several independent brokers because their business owners right? They get blown away with is all of a sudden like Mitch Ryback and Florida they wake up and they're in 32 states in two provinces in Canada and they're adding more people per month than they had in their brokerage when they converted to EXP. Now you started from scratch right. You didn't convert a brokerage but for any agent listening here it doesn't matter if you're a single solo or and an agent that operates by themselves. You're a team and you're the rainmaker. You have an opportunity just to have when people ask you and I'm sure this happens right. And they like Tell me about the EXP. Why are you with EXP. You know somebody is going to listen to this podcast or other episodes and get it right. You're going to be able to have people have an understanding of the reality of EXP and to tie this down. From the standpoint of my comment earlier in the down markets right there is a several franchise systems including a very large one that operates on profit share. The regional owners and I'll speak to Gene-Frederic and his partners in Northern California. We're making a enormous amount of money in that 0 8 0 9 downturn. Most of the market centers we're not profitable for obvious reasons right. People's production were down however... because it's paid off the top the regional owners were making money like they were printing money and they felt guilty frankly about it. If you ever hear Gene interviewed about it he talks about the fact that they felt fairly guilty about the fact that if you're out there and you're thinking that it's all about profit share that's your reality check. We are going to go through another business cycle correction and you're going to see that when something is paid off the bottom at a profit. There's nothing wrong with that. It works. I'm invested removed partner. I was at Kellems for more than three years so to speak. And so I'm vested. I get paid profit share every month. So does Gene-Frederic. So do plenty of people. Now the difference is we're now comparing revenue share the profit share and it's a completely different model revenue share. Just to make it really easy is paid off the top like original owner. Like. I described earlier. Ian: And it's 100 % transparent. Kevin: It's very predictable. In other words.. Ian: You know exactly how much it is you can calculate it on your own. Kevin: And you can build a business around it in other words you've got to look at it like Ian talked about if you've got 80 people you've got 100 people if you've got like Pat Hays you have 800 people. You can predict very accurately. But here's what I expect at a minimum I'm going to make. And usually the numbers end up higher than what people are estimating. So let me ask you this before we wrap up today if somebody is listening to this and they want to do some due diligence obviously they can listen to this or any of the other episodes they can click on the link and watch that seven minute intro video that's in the show notes. What would you advise them to do as far as due diligence to really understand what the EXP is about. Ian: I would just refer you to some Web sites like you can really learn about the company. Number one is we're a publicly traded company right. That's one of the big game changers about this and why Glenn Sanford created this because he wanted everyone that was contributing to the growth of the company to be an owner and to be rewarded with it. So EXP world Holdings Inc. Is the site that you can do your due diligence and you can see our balance sheet. You can see everything about the company we're very very transparent. That's number one and that's the myth that everybody that's listening maybe for the first time or have heard something negative from someone else about the company like just forget all that. Do your due diligence were a publicly traded company EXPworldholdings.com The next thing that I would say is maybe we could take him over to the cloud side so they can see the training schedule they can see the agent handbook at EXPCloud.com. That's what I like to refer people to you know if you scroll down on that site you can see the agent handbook and you can read this and you can see exactly what the financial model is. And you can read through it. There it is it's right there in PDF form you can download it you can read it all the contact information for everybody in the company not everybody as far as the agent count goes. But now it's got Vicki in there it's got Jason Guessing in there. It's got you know Glenn its got their e-mail addresses in there. Everybody in this company is 100 % transparent. That's the great thing that I love about it so EXPCloud.com that you can see the agent handbook there. Kevin: Excellent.. which are the two suggestions I would give. I also would like to state this and I know that we're going to get your contact information before we wrap up. And when you're introduced to EXP the person that introduces you to EXP can get you in touch with Ian or anybody else or any of the people you interviewed on this podcast ask for references if that's what you need as far as your due diligence. There may be somebody that's from the same franchise you are with that you can chat with maybe you've never met them maybe you admire them and you respect them completely. That is the culture. As owners of this business that's also not apparent from the outside. In other words he and I'm sure you've had this happen we're all of a sudden you have somebody that needs to chat with somebody that's in another part of the country you reach out and say Hey John this person is from the same franchise that you were with. They want to talk with you. The answer I found 100 % is yes sent them my way and I'll be happy. Yeah. And it's not that clear from the outside. And so now with that even if somebody listens to this and they want to chat with you a little bit more directly what's the best way to reach you. Ian: I mean best way to reach me is by text at 214 2131 737 and I'm in the Dallas market. This is my backyard and I've had a lot of fun. I still do tons of fix and flips I actually have some pretty huge renovations that I document put on Facebook and LinkedIn and stuff like that and I invite people to come out and check them out when I'm done. Kevin: Fantastic. Appreciate you coming on the show. Ian: Thanks buddy. Thank you.

What power do you have to change your relationship for the better by working on yourself? If things aren’t going so well, how do you know if you’ve done “all you can do” - or if there’s still hope? As you know, relationships require a balance of learning the skills of relating to others AND doing your own work to bring yourself more fully to your connection. On today’s episode, you’re going to learn how to find that balance, along with some ways to take both your inner growth and your outer skills to the next level. Our guest is Dr. Alexandra Solomon, author of Loving Bravely: 20 Lessons of Self-Discovery to Help You Get the Love You Want. Along with her “Marriage and Intimacy 101” course at Northwestern University, Alexandra Solomon has taken relationship education to a new level - with practical ways to help you uplevel your abilities in relationship. The tools that we present in today’s episode will ensure that you’re on the right track as you move forward on your relationship journey. And, as always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Along with our amazing listener supporters (you know who you are - thank you!), this week's episode is being sponsored by FabFitFun.com. FabFitFun offers a seasonal gift box with full-size, ahead-of-the-trend, fitness, beauty, lifestyle, and fashion products. Each box retails for $49.99, but contains more than $200 worth of goodies! You can customize your box, or just be completely surprised by what comes. As a special for Relationship Alive listeners, FabFitFun is offering $10 off your first box if you use the coupon code "ALIVE" with your order. It's a great gift for yourself - or for that special someone in your life. Resources: Check out Alexandra Solomon's website Read Alexandra Solomon’s book, Loving Bravely: 20 Lessons of Self-Discovery to Help You Get the Love You Want FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Relationship (ALSO FREE) www.neilsattin.com/bravely Visit to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Alexandra Solomon. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. I always start the show with a question. There's a question that's been coming up a lot recently in terms of the kind of feedback that I've been getting from you, both through email and through the Relationship Alive community on facebook, and that is how do I know the balance between what I can actually do in a relationship, and when it's just not going to happen with the person that I'm with? How do I know whether I've really done all that I can do relationally? How do I know that I've truly brought my best to relationship so that if things really aren't working out, then I can safely say it wasn't me, or at least to the best of my ability? Neil Sattin: I think this is a great question to ask if you're in a troubled relationship. At the same time, if you're in a great relationship, there's always this question too of how do I bring my best to what we're doing? How do we be in a state of growth, and discovery, and curiosity? Also, how do we deal with the things that maybe come up for us over and over again? Is that a sign that there's something wrong or should I be fixing that? Neil Sattin: It's a great process of inquiry to be in. So to cover the breadth of these questions, I wanted to have on the show a special guest who just came out with a book this past year called Loving Bravely: 20 Lessons of Self Discovery to Help You Get The Love You Want. Her name is Dr. Alexandra Solomon, and she's a professor at Northwestern University who has gained a certain amount of notoriety for teaching a marriage and intimacy 101 class, which is something that we've talked about a lot here on the show that, that special "relationship education" that we often don't get in the haphazard way that we learn about relationship in our culture or in our families. Neil Sattin: So Alexandra Solomon is here with us today to discuss her book, Loving Bravely, and to get at the heart of how we can take this journey, the journey that really begins within us, but that interfaces with our partners, our family, our friends to make sure that we are bringing our best to relationship. Neil Sattin: We will have a detailed show guide and transcript for this episode. If you want to download that, you can visit neilsattin.com/bravely, as in Loving Bravely, or you can text the word Passion to the number of 33444. Follow the instructions, and I will send you a link to this show's transcript and guide as well as all of our other show guides and transcripts. Neil Sattin: So I think that's it. Let's get started. Alexandra Solomon, thank you so much for being here with us today on Relationship Alive. Alexandra Solomon: Thank you for having me on. I'm happy to be here. Neil Sattin: Let's start with, I'm curious about this course that you teach. How did that even come up for you? The idea of teaching this class in college about how to do relationship well. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. This course has certainly been just a huge meaningful experience in my life year after year. So the course, when we teach the course this Spring, it will be our 18th time teaching it. So the first years that it was taught, I was a graduate student studying at Northwestern University. Two of my mentors, Bill Pinsof and Art Nielsen were long time couples therapists who sat hour after hour, week after week in their offices with couple after couple watching these dances of despair, of disconnection, of suffering, and started to ask the question like, what if. What if we started to really value talking to people about love early in their lives before they've partnered, and before they've gotten tossed around in the sea of love, and could it make a difference? Alexandra Solomon: This was happening as the field of relationship science was really starting to take off and be able to stand on its own two legs as a legitimate field of study. Alexandra Solomon: So I think for years we thought of love as this, I don't know, woo-woo thing, and so to teach love was seen like, "What are you talking about?" But the science is certainly clear. The quality of our relationships, especially our romantic relationships is a really big piece of the pie in terms of the overall quality of our lives. Alexandra Solomon: So that was a place from which the course was born, was a desire to touch people, touch young people's lives and journeys early on when they're sexually mature, but exploring. My gosh, when I think about college, I spent hour after hour on the floor of the dorm talking about love and sex with my friends. So this class just, I think it really meets, meets young adults where they are. Neil Sattin: Does that mean that if you're someone like me who's in his 40s, that I'm not impressionable enough anymore, and these lessons won't apply? Alexandra Solomon: Not by a long shot. Not by a long shot. That's been, if there's been one thing I've heard over the years during this course has received, as you might expect a great amount of media attention. It's been featured on five continents, and just there's a lot of curiosity about what the heck are you doing talking to college students about how to do love? Alexandra Solomon: So the one thing I've heard over and over again, is like, "Dang, I wish I had that when I was in college." I think that there's a real longing for why aren't we talking about this? Like, why didn't somebody talk to me about some ... setting down some basic principles, some basic foundation. So it's never too late though. Never ever too late. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Well I was being a little facetious because I do have a whole podcast about this thing. Alexandra Solomon: That's right. It's only the entirety of your life. That's right. Yes, we love the lifelong learning, right? Neil Sattin: Yeah, exactly. I love how your book encourages, it encourages a process that allows people to get into that learning mindset, and to always be curious. I think that is one of the big challenges because when we struggle with our partners and find ... you have that moment where you get triggered and your prefrontal cortex turns off, remembering that you can find your way back to curiosity even in a moment like that is a real challenge for people. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah, I mean that's the practice, isn't it? Like holding onto that framework that whatever is happening right now in this space between my partner and I, has got the power to really show me more about me, reveal me to me, offer me tremendous healing. That's a hard place to hold. I don't know if any of us hold it 24/7, but at least we can commit ourselves to trying to remember, to making our forgetfulness as short as possible, and coming back to that center of, "Okay, what's going on in me right now?" Neil Sattin: Yeah. One of the themes that you come back to over and over again in Loving Bravely is this process of, I think you call it name, connect and choose. So perhaps we could dive into what that means right now. If you're listening and you're hearing me say name, connect, choose, you'll have a sense of what we're talking about because I think it pulls you from these moments of being dislocated from yourself and your curiosity and the kinds of things that help you find solutions or that even help you thrive and grow. It brings you back really, really well and succinctly. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. I think that, that was a helpful tool for me and my writing of the book. It's the name, connect, choose process is just the ... it's just a process of awareness. It's a way of thinking about what bringing awareness looks like. So sometimes it happens at the really macro level, like the really big picture level where the naming is I name my father's alcoholism, I named that. For many of us, we know our healing journey begins by just calling a thing what it is, looking a thing dead in the eyes and calling it what it is. Sometimes the naming is a big picture name, like I name that I am a survivor of abuse. I name that my father struggled with alcoholism. Alexandra Solomon: Then the connect is just noticing the feelings that are attached to that truth. And, rather than judging the feelings or thinking about what you think the feeling should be, just bearing witness to the feelings. That, the connect is really a permission to just feel what you feel, because it's through that process of naming something, allowing ourselves to feel what we feel that creates enough consciousness, enough awareness that then multiple paths open forward that allow us to choose something different. Alexandra Solomon: Sometimes like when we're talking about like a big picture thing, we may choose then to not partner with somebody who is in the throes of their addiction the way that we have before. When we're unconscious, when we haven't named the impact of a parent's addiction, for example, we will bring to us, in an unconscious way, we'll bring to us somebody with a similar wound, because that little child in us want so desperately to fix, to redo, to master something that in childhood was unfixable, out of our control. Alexandra Solomon: Through the process of calling the chapters of our life story what they are, and letting ourselves feel what we feel, we bring ourselves to a place of greater awareness and ability to say, "I see that, that person is suffering. I see it, I feel the pull, but I'm not going to go towards it. I don't need to. I don't need to fix the world. I can come back to my center." That's that big picture naming of bringing our awareness to our life story. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and you mentioned that process of even listing out the chapters. That was one aspect in your book that you revisit over and over again that I really appreciated as a way of helping you both see the themes, and the patterns that happen in your life and in your choices, as well as to get a certain degree of objectivity with those things. Neil Sattin: So, maybe you could describe what we're even talking about in terms of the chapters of your life and what that ... how someone listening might go through that process for themselves in a particular area of their lives. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. So one thing to say here is that the book itself is written in chapters, obviously, as all books are. Each chapter of the book closes with some exercises. My intention there is to offer the reader ... Each of the chapters of the book is like another, just place of awareness. Then the exercises in each chapter are designed to flesh that out. How does it apply to you? Alexandra Solomon: You're right, a lot of the work of the book is inviting people to work on their life story. This is from, there's a whole branch in the field of psychology that's about the power of story, the power of narrative, and that when we tell our stories, that's healing, right then and there, that's healing, just the telling of our story. So in the book, there are a number of invitations for the reader to kind of work on their story. It's through the process of working on who was I, and who am I? But then we start to really get empowered around, "Okay, so now who do I want to be going forward? What do I want to break, shed, transform? Then what do I want to carry through?" Neil Sattin: Yeah, and being able to, like I was imagining because I, unfortunately, I was reading so much that I didn't get a chance to do all of your exercises. But that being said, it was exciting, the idea of imagining, okay, at this part of the story, this is when the unwitting hero stumbles across his first love, or makes the decision that he will regret for the rest of ... that thing. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so there's some quality of that, that I think can be really helpful for you to be willing to look at your life that way. If I'm the hero of this story or the heroine of this story, what did I do in this chapter? What's like the one sentence summary, and how does that chapter live in me unconsciously that I'm naming right now. Well, what could happen in the next chapter? Because that's the beauty of story, right? Is that as long as there's another book in the series, you don't really know what's going to happen. It's not a set destiny no matter what you thought in chapters one, two, and three. Alexandra Solomon: That's right, and I think that when we are thinking about when we're working on a chapter in our story that maybe is what we would consider a dark night of the soul or a really difficult chapter that maybe has to do with a toxic romantic relationship, so we're writing that story. The risk is that what we take away from that relationship is just a lot of heavy cynicism, wound, hurt, a closed off heartedness, right? Because it hurt, because we feel like love is dangerous. We've been hurt. So I think there's something when we're especially working on one of those chapters, the process of telling the story can open up, even if it's just for a moment, it can open up a little light of awareness about the "and", about it was awful...and.... Alexandra Solomon: Then in the and, within the and, is that posttraumatic growth that's always there that we don't get to unless we really stand on the truth of it, allow ourselves to feel what we feel. Through that process, very often there can be this "and", that's about, "and that relationship taught me about what it really means to hold onto my worth, and what it really means to honor the red flags when I see them, and what it really means to speak my truth, even if I'm afraid..." Alexandra Solomon: But we don't get to those. We don't get to those little pieces that are about our own resilience, and our own ability to get back up unless we're willing to just tell the story. Tell the story, to be like, "This is what happened, here's what I saw, here's what I felt, here's what I did, here's what I tolerated and here's what I want going forward." Alexandra Solomon: So that's, I think that's why crafting our stories, telling our stories, even the chapters that were hurtful, that we survived. When we do that, we are really reclaiming our healing. We're really reclaiming our resilience through that process. I don't think there's any other way to get to the resilience, to the courage to love again. We don't get to that by just putting the chapter in a box, and burying the box in the bottom of the ocean, or doing this thing where we just say it was where we just don't talk about it. We can't get there unless we kind of go through and story it and start to make some sense of it. Neil Sattin: Yeah. It's funny because I agree with you completely, and still I know these people in my life who that's what they do, like end of chapter, box goes under the bed or in the closet or burned in the bonfire, and that's it. Like, next. No real self reflection. Neil Sattin: There is a part of me at times, especially when things get complicated where I'm like, "Wow, that must be a much easier way to live on some level." I'm wondering if you have any reflections on that. Do you ever, as you were writing the book, because what I loved about Loving Bravely, apart from it just being a really well organized book, when you read this book, you'll see that it does a great job, which probably won't surprise you for someone who teaches relationship 101. It walks you through a process that will get you somewhere, and with a whole lot more self understanding. So I really appreciated that. Neil Sattin: At the same time, I was reading it and I was like, "This is great. I can relate to so many of these things, and it's true." We do, we have to ride the waves of our relationship, and there's so much growth, and it can be so hard. Then I was like, "But is there a magical universe somewhere where people would, someone would pick up a book like this and be like, it's not that hard. It's really easy." Or be just like, "What is she even talking about? You just let go of that person and you move on, or whatever it is." What do you think? Does that mythical universe exist? Alexandra Solomon: I don't know. It sounds lovely. I might go visit that place, hang out for a while. Neil Sattin: Bring Todd. Alexandra Solomon: That's right. That's right. Well, that is, I mean, I'm sure you had these moments as well where it's like, I think part of what I do, whether it's in my classroom when I'm teaching undergraduate students, or my classroom when I'm training couples therapists, or in my couple's therapy office when I'm working with couples, I mean my life's work is to make stuff complicated, right? To hold onto 50 Shades of Gray, to be willing to go to the level of nuance to turn something eight different ways so we can look at it. Alexandra Solomon: So that's my jam. That's what I love to do. But I'm sure that way of living would drive a lot of people really crazy. It'd be a really unpleasant way to live the way there's just a simplicity that comes from not looking at the nuance of it. Neil Sattin: This brings me, and it gives me an idea for a question. Alexandra Solomon: Okay. Neil Sattin: Which is, I'm sure you see this all the time. I see this with my clients and people who write in. There's so often someone who's very self reflective, for some reason, finds themself in relationship with someone who's like, "No, I don't really want to talk about that." Or, "Why are we making things so complicated?" Or any variation of that. Neil Sattin: I'm wondering because you are probably not hearing from that person, you're hearing from the growth oriented taking things apart person who really wants to affect change. What do you offer someone in that kind of situation around the dialectics of their partner being different than them, versus inviting them into the reflection versus maybe this person isn't right for you? Alexandra Solomon: Yes. I think that is such a great question because you're right. The person that I talked to is the growth oriented person who asked me a question like, "How do I get my husband ..." because usually, to be stereotypical, it is a straight woman whose asking about her male partner, "How do I get him to be more self reflective, or how do I get him to ..." Alexandra Solomon: That to me is a red flag kind of question. Whenever we're talking about how to get somebody else to do something, we have exited our own business and we've put ourselves in somebody else's business, you know? But I do think that when there's a partner who has more interest in introspection, self awareness paired with somebody who has less interest, there is a way to invite, I think that the frame needs to be an invitation to collaboration, like an invitation to standing shoulder to shoulder and looking at a dynamic together. I think sometimes the person who has more years of therapy under their belt, who's read more self help books, there's a way that knowledge can start to get used as the weapon in the relationship in a way that, because I think it's like what I have done this to my husband at times, "Well, I'm the couple's therapist. Therefore ..." Neil Sattin: Right. The number of times that I've sat with my wife Chloe and been like, "Well, Dan Siegel says that ..." Alexandra Solomon: That's right. I know. Except for when it comes to Dan Siegel, because when you're saying what Dan Siegel said, you really are saying the right thing. He's just fantastic. But yes, I think that is. Those kinds of things can be used as a defense against the vulnerability of, "I'm hurt, I'm scared and lonely. I'm confused." When we start using our knowledge, or our experience, or our successful podcasts, or our successful ... our book, and we can start to use that knowledge defensively because it's maybe easier than saying, "I'm just really lonely for you, or I'm really scared about us right now, or I really don't understand your perspective. Can you tell me more about how you're seeing this?" Neil Sattin: Yeah. Alexandra Solomon: We had a, there was a moment, maybe a year or so ago that our daughter was kind of needing to talk through a dynamic that happened at school. This one said to this one something or other, and just one of those messy friendship dynamics. She's kind of unpacking it with me, and I'm working on like a diagram, and frameworks and we're unpacking it. Todd walks by, and my husband Todd walked by and he goes, "I don't know, I think you should just tell her that snitches end up in ditches." I was like, "Beautiful. That's beautiful." because that may very well be as good an answer as this diagram that I'm working on craft here. Maybe there's a simple way forward. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So in the spirit of being able to hold both things and to see the possibility for connection even when you're with someone who you suspect may not be as "growth oriented" as you are, and yet where there could be this real opportunity to collaborate. Well, let's dive into that. You talk about the dialectical approach, the holding two opposites or seeming opposites together, and being able to be okay there. How does that process work, and where do you see that? Alexandra Solomon: Well, I think this example we're working on about two people who have different approaches to life, like an introspective versus a just take it as a comes approach, that's a great ... That couple is a dialectic right there. How do you hold the both-and where sometimes reflection and introspection does yield greater wisdom and awareness, and sometimes there's a simplicity, "I love you. I'm here. Let's go forward." Alexandra Solomon: I know that there are times when my husband will ... I will want to unpack something and look at it multiple ways, and he'll just say, "Al, I love you and it's going to be okay." And, that is the thing that is ... there are times when that feels actually really validating, right? This simplicity of, "I love you. I love you, and we're going to get through it. It's hard, and we're going to get through it. I'm here, and we're together." That there's a simplicity that comes from that. Alexandra Solomon: So the both-and is like how do you hold onto a sense of like we're in this together, and that's maybe enough for now, and a need to kind of unpack and understand. But those both-ands come up everywhere. I think that's, they happen within us. How can I be both a career ... dedicated to my career and dedicated to my family. How can I be both strong and vulnerable? The dialectic idea is about how do we hold on to just complexity, both things at once. I think that happens at the level of the self, and at the level of the relationship. Alexandra Solomon: When we start to go into this either-or, either I'm right or you're right, that's, to me, that's a red flag. Whenever the conversation is going towards trying to figure out which one of us is right and which one of us is wrong, that's a red flag that we've gotten ourselves off track. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So that would represent a black and white thinking, kind of cognitive distortion almost. Yeah. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. Neil Sattin: Right. It can come up in like how can I love you so much and feel so angry at you right now? Or how can I trust you and handle the fact that I don't feel safe right now? Yeah. It comes up all over the place, doesn't it? Alexandra Solomon: It really does. It's, I'm thinking about when I'm working with a couple where they really, they're coming to therapy and there's a real question about whether or not the relationship will continue. They're, "How can we do both? How can we have serious doubts and do the work of couple's therapy?" That's a hard thing to hold, how to hold on to both the awareness this may not continue, and be dedicated to doing the work, and the one that you're talking about, I think is so common, right? I think when we feel angry, when we feel ... Well, or when somebody is angry at us, when my partner is mad at me, how can I remember that somebody can be mad at me and love me? That's a challenging knot, that sometimes the anger feels ... it's hard to stay present when somebody else is angry with us or disappointed in us. Neil Sattin: Right? That goes right back to childhood wounds usually around our experience of our parent's anger or disappointment in us. Alexandra Solomon: I think it's really important for parents to find ways of saying, "I am angry right now. I am upset right now, and I love you and I'm doing my work to move through this. I's my job as a parent to move through this and to reconnect." Right? So we don't leave our kids in that place of toxic shame. But that lingers, right? That lingers, and then the kid becomes an adult who really becomes fearful of conflict. Neil Sattin: Right? Right. We don't know anyone like that. Another dialectic. I like how you brought that up actually with couples who are on the edge of uncertainty around their status. But I think that that is something that more and more, especially in modern times, people are holding this, "I'm committed to you, and you know what? I could divorce you, I don't have to live with this bullshit." That kind of thing. Neil Sattin: There's a challenge there because that particular tension can really challenge the safety that you feel in relationship, and the safety that's required to do some of that vulnerable work. Yeah, how do you help someone who's in that, who's deep in that struggle of like, "I really want this, and I don't want to feel like I'm trapped here." Alexandra Solomon: I know. I think this is the hardest, I think this is the hardest thing. I think this is really, really hard because we are ... To act as if divorce isn't an option is to live in La La land, right? That is, even when divorce was, I think maybe 50 years ago, it was easier to not act as if that was in the realm of the possible because there was so much more shame and stigma around it than there is today. So what does ... that in and, there's no getting around the fact that in order to ... that will, that intimacy really does require a safe container. A container where I'm saying, "I am committed to showing up for you today, and I'm committed to showing up for you tomorrow. I'm here to do this with you." Alexandra Solomon: I like to think about commitment as having like two faces. The face of commitment that's about, I'm here because it's hard to leave. I got a lot of stuff here and we've got joint accounts. That is a part of commitment, right? Part of the essence of marriage is creating a guard rail, and making it hard for people to leave. That's one part of commitment. Alexandra Solomon: But there's the other part of commitment which is I'm here because I want to be here, because I value us, because I believe in us. That's always a really important piece of the work with couples who are ... Well, for any couple is really having that value statement, that what are ... that mission statement that, what are we about, what do we believe in, what do we value? That's how you create that container that makes staying here feel like a playground rather than like a prison, right? Neil Sattin: Right. Alexandra Solomon: That I'm here because this is where all of me shows up, including the part of me that has pride in what it means to show up, to surrender to a process with a person. There's a pride that comes from experiencing yourself as somebody who gave their word and stands by their word. So I think couples need, individuals, and couples need lots of pathways towards capturing and embracing that second face of commitment, which is, "I'm here because I believe in us. I believe in this. I believe in what we're doing." Neil Sattin: Yeah, there's something that emerged for me in what you just said, which was the reminder of being committed to the process. So within that, I feel like there's a lot of room for a couple to come to agreement that no matter what, we're committed to this process together, we're committed to being kind to each other. Neil Sattin: Having that as also something that you hold to, particularly when you know, if you are in a couple in jeopardy, let's say. But at least being willing to say, "Yeah, neither one of us is going to just jump ship, but I'm not going to surprise you. We're going to be in this together, even if the in it means ultimately deciding we're not in it together." Alexandra Solomon: That's right. One of my teachers along the way would say you can always end a marriage. You can't always save a marriage. So what it means to save a marriage, to work to heal a marriage or a longterm relationship, or a relationship, there's a pride and a sacredness to committing to that process. Alexandra Solomon: I think here again, I think sometimes we use the fact that we can leave, we can use that as a defense against the vulnerability of really turning towards the relationship, and certainly to I think what creates a healthy relational environment is a commitment to never using the threat of leaving as a reflection. I think when we're, that's why it's so important to manage when we're triggered because when we're triggered, if we're triggered, and we keep talking, and we keep fighting, and the volume is going up, and the volume is going up, we really put ourselves in jeopardy of saying that thing of putting divorce on the table, of putting break up on the table, of threatening to leave. Alexandra Solomon: That is all that can be, that is in that moment a reflection of that triggered volume-up kind of behavior that just doesn't create a healthy relationship climate. Like you're saying, if a marriage ends, it needs to end, or a relationship ends, it needs to end in, and from a really sober place of thoughtfulness, of consideration, of consciousness. Alexandra Solomon: People need to be aware that, I mean, that's the thing we've learned. This is what the whole field of interpersonal neurobiology has taught us, is that when we're triggered, we're not our, and we're nowhere near our best self or our bravest self. That triggered language, triggered meaning we're kind of not in our ... we're not in our mind, right? We're out of our mind. Our blood pressure's up, our pulse is racing, our brain, our intellect is down. So we are at risk of saying stuff that we can't take back. Stuff that really hurts. Alexandra Solomon: So part of that mission statement as a couple, I think is making commitments around what do we do when we get triggered, and how do we commit as a couple to taking time out for the sake of our relationship because we love our relationship too much, and we honor the fragility of the relationship. We know that relationships are breakable, they can be damaged. Therefore, we really value that when we're triggered, we just stop talking and we go back, we do a time out until we can speak from a place of love instead of reactivity. But that's a practice, and that takes commitment to practice to live that way, you know? Neil Sattin: Yeah. In your book, you bring up several things that we've talked about on the show. Things like creating a code word that you use with your partner so that you can even avoid using the word triggered, which can sometimes be even more triggering. That was one thing, or focusing on just things in your immediate environment to help you get present, to not hopefully not being in an actually threatening situation, which is what that fight or flight is, is responding to. Yeah. Neil Sattin: You offer lots of great hints in living bravely around how to navigate that kind of agreement with your partner, which I really appreciated. It's been a theme that we talk about a lot here on the show. What were you going to say? Alexandra Solomon: Well, I was going to say because it's really, I think it's I'm glad that you're talking about it a lot on the show because I think it's just, it's so important and it's so difficult to do. When that overwhelmed state takes over, we can start to tell ourselves, "Well, it's just my feelings. I'm entitled to talk about my feelings." There's this whole kind of story that gets wrapped around, like when I'm upset, I'm allowed to say whatever I want. Alexandra Solomon: An important aspect of self awareness is being willing to question that belief. There's, of course you are entitled and authorized to talk to your partner about what's on your mind, about what's troubling you, about the how, the how matters. Neil Sattin: Right? There's a lot circulating in the popular culture right now around radical honesty and telling it like it is. That can feel really good, particularly if you're angry briefly, and then you have to live with the consequences of how you delivered that radical truth. I think you're definitely right that your ability to get back to the part of your brain, that goes offline when you're triggered, your prefrontal cortex to get back to that part of your brain before you express your radical truth, so that you can do it lovingly, and relationally, and creatively, and compassionately, you're going to be way better off. Alexandra Solomon: Great. Yep. That's right. I think you're wise to connect it to this bigger cultural climate that we are in right now. I'm not a fan of radical truth. When I have a couple in my office, and one of them says, "You're not going to want to hear this, but I got to say it." I put my hand up and I said, "Well, let's just, let's pause. One hand on your heart, one hand on your belly. Let's do some breathing." Because if the frame is, you're not going to want to hear this, but I got to say it, maybe this is a great place to do some mindfulness and some preparation and kind of consider how can it be sad in a way that really is the voice of the voice of love, right? Said in a way that when you can advocate for yourself while also holding onto your partner. Neil Sattin: Yes. You bring up a couple times this question of what would love say or do in this situation. That's a great place to orient from. If you hear yourself saying, "I don't want to, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but ..." Alexandra Solomon: That's right. Go with that. Go to your journal, work it out. If that's the frame, that's a big red flag. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And, talk about the importance of the pause here because I love how you do that in a session, and I can relate. There are times when I definitely have to be like, "All right, stop everything." What's so important about the pause? Alexandra Solomon: It goes back to the fact that we are ... we act as if we're these highly evolved creatures when we're walking around with these brains that for the vast majority of our existence have, and sometimes in our lives really do still need to be fight or flight. But so we are wired for fight flight so powerfully, but we live in a world, and we create these romantic relationships where we really do value, care, consideration, compassion, closeness, intimacy. Intimacy is really a tender thing, right? To really, if what we say we value is letting ourselves be seen in all of our complexity, if that's what we value in our relationships, then we need to be willing to do what it takes to create the conditions where we can safely show each other to each other, and share stories of our heart, and talk about our insecurity. Alexandra Solomon: So that's what we want. We have to align our behaviors towards that. That means being willing to pause, and consider, okay, so having a concern, or a complaint, or a criticism is of course understandable and to be expected in a romantic relationship. Of course that's going to happen. But how do I say it in a way that really invites intimacy where this moment of difference, this moment of misunderstanding, this moment of disappointment can help us better understand who we each are individually, and what we're about as a couple. Alexandra Solomon: That really comes from pausing. Dan Siegel has that really lovely way of talking about the yes space versus the no space. Getting to know what that feels, I think that's where it starts. Very often in my office I'm just helping people get a sense of what does it feel like to be in a yes space. The yes space is curious, collaborative, empathic. The no space is defensive, reactive, like that gotcha energy. Alexandra Solomon: The first step is figuring out what that feels like in your body to be in a yes space versus a no space. In order to get to that, we've got to pause, and just take that moment of reactivity, and breathe, and watch it, and notice it, and start to question what are the stories that are getting going in me right now? Alexandra Solomon: Very often, the stories are pretty negative and critical of our partners. They deserve to be unpacked around, okay, the story I'm telling myself is that you must not care very much about me. If that's what your behavior says to me, you don't care much about me. Even just that is a kind of pause, saying the story I'm telling myself is you don't care very much about me. That's a kind of pause because then we're inviting our partner to say, "Okay, I hear that's the story you're telling yourself that you don't feel very cared for right now. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Let me know when you're ready to hear a little more about what was going on, on my side of the street, in my part of the world." That's how that back and forth opens up. Neil Sattin: Yeah. When you said we think of ourselves as these evolved beings, I think it's worth pointing out that when you were in fight flight, when you are about to say that thing that you know you shouldn't say, but you're actually in the least evolved part of your brain. That's your primitive brain. So you're not acting like an evolved being in that moment. Maybe that can be a reminder to you like, "Let me get back to the place where that ... where I can really leverage evolution here for myself." Alexandra Solomon: Yeah, it happens quickly. I'll be in a session with a couple, and one partner will raise their eyebrow, and then the other partner is like, "Okay, here we go." I'm like, "Wait, whoa. What happened?" It can turn on a dime. We get to know each other really well, we have these tells. My couple knows each other's tells much more than I know their tells. I'm getting to know the terrain of this relationship that they've been in for a long time. Alexandra Solomon: So she lifts her eyebrow up, and her partner is like, "Okay, well, here we go." = "Wait, slow down, what's happening?" because that's that reactive part of our brains that is so ready to either fight or get the heck out of there. Alexandra Solomon: That's a learning. To learn that the fight or flight response is our lower brain response, and that our relationships deserve something a little more careful, a little more nuanced than just fight or flight. That's work. They're like, "Okay, I'm watching your eyebrow go up. I'm starting to tell myself a story of you're dismissing me. You don't believe me?" Just to breathe through that stay in that space of curiosity instead of attack or get the heck out of there. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And, what's interesting to me, I'm just imagining this hypothetical situation with the eyebrow. I imagine that it's even possible that if the other partner were able to say, "I see you, I see your eyebrows being raised." and to actually name a few other things that they see, that even that in and of itself could totally shift what's being felt in that moment from what was about to happen to like, "Actually, we're both here in this space together, and we're both being people, and we're actually safe with each other." Just the act of mentioning those things presences both partners I think. Alexandra Solomon: I agree, because then the partner with the eyebrow can say, "Thank you for letting me know. Okay. Let me just take a couple deep breaths here because I really do. I love us. I believe in us. I want to fight for us, so let me just regulate myself for a moment so that I can really take in what you need to say." Neil Sattin: Yeah, and I don't know about you, Alexandra, but for me, when my partner names something that is a sign that I am going down some road that's very familiar to me. I have my own little recognition of, "Oh my God, I am. I'm about to do that thing that I always do." If she catches me just right, that's enough to let me see myself with a certain degree of humor and humility in those moments. Alexandra Solomon: Yes. Isn't that beautiful? Yes. My husband will. I remember a time not long ago, he was like, "Whoa, you just want like zero to 60 in a millisecond. That was really intense to watch." And, he said it in this kind of half sarcastic but observing way. But it was I was able to hear the love in the message and the invitation to slow down in the message. In that moment I could take myself lightly enough to be like, "Okay. Yep. Okay. You're holding up a mirror. I see it. Let me try again." Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. That's the whole Gottman's 5:1 ratio of positive ... that we need five positive to counteract every one negative, and that when we have that kind of atmosphere in our relationship, our partner can say to us like, "Whoa, you're super zero to 60 right now." And, we can take it for what it is, which is a bid to be like, "Let's go. Let's be careful here. Let's slow down, let's be mindful and take it with that sense of trust that we're both fighting for the same thing right now, which is our relationship." Neil Sattin: Yeah. There are two things that I want to make sure that we mention before we go today. Actually before we even do that, before we started, you mentioned that there's a new series that you're going to be doing online, like a book club around Loving Bravely. What is that you're going to be doing? Alexandra Solomon: Yeah, we are. In January, we're going to launch a Loving Bravely book club. It's going to be online. We're going to do it through Facebook. So we've created a facebook group. So to sign up, you go to my website, dralexandrasolomon.com/bookclub and there's signup information. It's going to be free. We're gonna just move through one lesson of the book each month. So there's 20 lessons of the book, so we're going to do just a deep dive on each of the lessons. Alexandra Solomon: It will be a blend of using Facebook live format plus Q&A in the Facebook group. Some dialogue back and forth there. Participants will have access to ... will do some homework and some challenges. I'm excited. It's a new venue for me. But a way of, I think of taking this work which is simple and infinitely complex at the very same time, and working on it in community, which I think is the best way to do it, frankly. Neil Sattin: Yeah. To be able to support each other for sure. So we will make sure that we have a link to that in the show notes for this episode as well, so that whenever you're listening to us, you can find Alexandra Solomon and jump in wherever they happen to be in the book. Alexandra Solomon: That's right. Yeah. They won't be a tight ... there's not going to be like if you don't get in, in lesson one, you're out, it will be an unfolding process. Neil Sattin: Great. So the two things, one is on the shorter side and one might be a little less short, but hopefully not too long. So the first one is, I love how many helpful ways you offer in your book to be an invitation. Something that we started talking about at the very beginning of this conversation. I'm wondering if you could talk for a moment about constraints questions, because that's something I hadn't, at least a terminology that I hadn't come across before. I found that to be a really generative approach to how you might flip something around to actually be useful. So can you talk about that concept of a constraints question and how you would use that practically? Alexandra Solomon: Yes. In fact, I love that you brought it up because just this morning I was thinking about the idea of a constraint question and just having a real moment of like, "Man, that's a brilliant idea." It's just, it's an old school family therapy concept that is simple and I think it packs a really powerful punch. Alexandra Solomon: So let's say, I mean this is kind of a tricky one. Let's say our partner lies to us. There's two ways of bringing it up. One way is, "Why did you lie to me?" Then the other way is to ask a constraint question. The constraint question is, "What kept you from being truthful with me?" So the difference between why did you lie to me and what kept you from being truthful with me is a really big difference, right? Alexandra Solomon: The why did you lie to me is an invitation to defensiveness. It's an accusation. It invites defensiveness, it predetermines the outcome, which is, I'm the victim. You're the perpetrator. It makes a good-bad split versus, what kept you from being truthful is a curious invitation towards let's work together to understand what the heck is going on in our relationship that truth is being constrained. Alexandra Solomon: The truth that something doesn't feel safe enough or something is unhealed in you like, "What's going on? Let's look at this." It's an invitation to that shoulder to shoulder stance to look together at what the heck is going on. Neil Sattin: So what's the trick for looking at a situation and finding the constraint? The constraint being though what's keeping you from something? Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. Well, I think just that language. What's keeping you from, is the way to ask it. So you were late. What's keeping you from being on time? We agreed to 3:30, what's keeping, what kept you? What kept you from showing up at 3:30? Neil Sattin: Right. You're setting unrealistic expectations for me. Yeah. Alexandra Solomon: And, it may as well, okay, so now we're off to the races. Let's have a conversation about expectations. How do expectations tie to values? What do we value in this relationship? In what way are you and I different? You grew up in a family where 10 minutes late equaled on time. I grew up in a family where 10 minutes early equaled late. That's so fascinating. Let's unpack that. What does that mean to us going forward? Alexandra Solomon: Now we're in it. Now we're unpacking and looking at it versus you were late, you were bad, you are wrong, you are disrespectful. That's a stance that closes off intimacy. It closes off any kind of curious conversation about how do we define? You know what? How do we define this? How do we operationalize it? What does it mean to us? Is there a difference between us and the value of this thing? Those are much more interesting conversations. Alexandra Solomon: The idea, I guess the key to the constrained question - it involves a flip and an asking about what keeps us from a path that feels more healthy, more whole, more inviting, more collaborative. Neil Sattin: Right? And, as you reach for a constraint question instead, you may bump up against that place in you that wants to be the victim because the constraint question, what I notice immediately is it invites you into a conversation where you have shared responsibility for whatever's happening. Alexandra Solomon: Totally. Totally. Well, because when it comes to a lie, one of the really tricky things is - when we start to hide, we start to hide things, distort things when we don't trust, when we don't feel safe. So the lie can feel like the blatant obvious place to put the blame or the badness. But there's a very oftentimes really important things to look at about how do we respond when we're in the face of differences. Sometimes I may lie because it's, I'm really scared to be direct with you, to tell you what's really going on. Neil Sattin: Right. We had, Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson on the show talking about their book, Tell Me No Lies, which, and I love how they illustrate that, that there is a co-created dynamic there of how honesty is fostered, and truth telling in a relationship. Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. It's a lot of breathing. We have to really keep breathing when our partners share a truth that challenges us, that we disagree with, that we don't like. Okay. So keep breathing, keep breathing because if what you're saying is that you value transparency and honesty, then you got to keep breathing even when your partner is sharing something that you don't ... that you're struggling with. Neil Sattin: Yes. True. Isn't that the truth? Alexandra Solomon: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Neil Sattin: Maybe that would be a great place for us to end because I'm ... you spend the first half, I think of the lessons in the book are all about the work that we do within ourselves. It can be easy to ... One place where I've focused a lot on the show has been in the skills of being relational because the personal growth, like we're a very personal growth oriented world. So people neglect the growth that's around how you actually connect after you're growing personally. Neil Sattin: But what did you, how can I phrase this? What's so crucial from your perspective about the way that we approach our own growth, and how we bring that to our relationship? Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. One of the things that I say over and over again in the undergraduate course, and it pervades my work, which is the self awareness, self growth work isn't one and done. It's not like a thing we do for a month or a year or two years. It's something that we, it's a paradigm shift. It's a commitment to always seeing, to really taking ourselves as these unfolding projects, and that were never done, and we're never perfect, and thank goodness, and that it's this back and forth between my own intimacy with myself and how that opens me to intimacy with you. Alexandra Solomon: Then how intimacy with you turns me back towards intimacy with myself. So it's really just, I think the most important thing is holding onto that both those things are true at the same time. That I'm working on me while we're working on us, and working on us helps me work on me. That that's this ongoing back and forth. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I love that. It's true. It is an ongoing process. You offer some great ways in Loving Bravely to look at your own growth and how it, the bearing that it has on what you bring to relationships. So whether it's your beliefs about soulmates, or your beliefs about anger and confrontation, or what to expect in relationship, all those things are so important because if you're not illuminating them, they're going to drive you unconsciously or subconsciously. Alexandra Solomon: That's right. That's right. Even the whole, I could see a couple having a fight where it's about, "I thought you were my soul mate." What is a soul mate? Okay, great. So let's use rather than fighting about whether or not each other ... you are each other's soul mates, back up and have a conversation about how did you come to believe what you believe about soulmates? What ways that are a reflection of your family system, your cultural location? All of these little points of difference are really neat opportunities for expanding our own awareness, expanding our compassionate empathy for our partner, and how they're different from us, and how they view the world differently from us rather than them being threats. Neil Sattin: Do we have time for one more question? Alexandra Solomon: Sure. Go for it. Neil Sattin: Okay. This came up for me actually at the very beginning of our conversation, and what you just said reminded me of it, and that is you've talked about the power of creating our narrative and really getting to know ourselves well in what you were just saying, unpacking that with our partners. I'm wondering from your perspective, what's the balance between what we share with our partners about that narrative, like sharing with them about our history, and what we're discovering, and maybe where we don't necessarily have to share. Neil Sattin: And, on the flip side, I've actually gotten a lot of questions from people. Perhaps you run into this in your therapy as well when your sessions with clients around someone finding something out, and then having trouble forgetting it, or how do I live with knowing that this was my partner's experience? That could be something really bad that happened or it could even be like the knowledge that their partner had this amazing lover, and maybe they're not that. How do you help a couple navigate those kinds of questions? Alexandra Solomon: Yeah. Boy, that's a big one. The first thing I'm thinking is about early in a relationship, the idea that we really do need to earn each other's stories. I think that early in a relationship there can be either a fear of being seen, of somebody knowing like what if you knew the skeletons in my closet, you would head for the hills, or there can be an opposite of like, "okay, so you need to know all this stuff about me so that you can decide whether you can handle me or not handle me, or I want to know right now if you are up for this because I don't want to get invested and then have you flee." Alexandra Solomon: That's where the degree to which we can hold onto, with love and compassion, our own complexity that will help us navigate what is a really personal boundary around how and when we share. Alexandra Solomon: But the thing that we know for sure is that when I show myself to you, and you respond with empathy instead of judgment, that right there creates a loop that builds trust. So the degree to which you do that for me is the degree to which I will feel safe enough to share more about me, and that builds trust. Alexandra Solomon: The sharing, and the trust building, and the empathy do go hand in hand and they grow over time, and they're a process. Time is a really essential variable. That's what makes, I think I'm getting into a relationship, one of the things that makes getting into relationship so challenging is that, that it takes a while to build. It takes patience to share something, and then read the feedback of how your partner, how that person's responding to you. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and on the flip side, if you're responding with a, "I don't know what to do about this, or having discovered this. You waited three years to tell me whatever it is." What I'm hearing, and what you just said is that, that might be a reflection of your own judgment or fear. And hopefully that's something that you're then able to bring to the conversation. Alexandra Solomon: Right. Yeah, and when the partner, when our partner, if a partner shares something in year three of a relationship, usually it's when I see this happen with my couples, it tends to be something about when I was a kid I was abused or some piece of a story or my last relationship, I cheated. When that comes forward, hopefully it's coming forward in a way of like, "Listen, here's something difficult, and here's what I've done to understand it, to make sense of it, to heal, to grow. Here's what I commit to going forward." So that it's not just this kind of unfinished plop. Here's this thing which is plopped down in the space. Alexandra Solomon: Where there is, I think some responsibility on the person who's doing the sharing to have done their own work around it, to have forgiven themselves, to have healed from the trauma, to have done some work around healing the trauma, to understand the bigger picture of what the impact was, what the recovery looks like, how they practice their healing today. I think that helps the integration of new knowledge, be a little easier for the recipient. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Well, now I'm realizing it wasn't really fair of me to drop such a big question on you at the end, but I appreciate that you are willing to dive right in with me. That being said, let this be hopefully an invitation for you to come back at some future date where we can unpack that even more. Neil Sattin: In the meantime, Alexandra Solomon, thank you so much for being here with us today. Cearly, you are so wise and you have a lot of practical wisdom from also practicing with clients as well. Your book, Loving Bravely: 20 Lessons of Self Discovery to Help You Get the Love You Want, I think is just so valuable. It's an easy read, and something that will definitely help you come to understand yourself in relationship way more than perhaps you already do. Neil Sattin: Again, if you want to download the transcript and guide for this episode, you can do that at neilsatting.com/bravely, as in Loving Bravely. You can also text the word PASSION to the number 33444, and follow the instructions, and I'll send you everything that you need along with links to find Alexandra Solomon, her book, and to get involved in her book group, and whatever else she has going on. Clearly lots of value there. Neil Sattin: So thank you so much again, Alexandra, for being with us here today. Alexandra Solomon: You're welcome. Thanks for having me on I appreciate it.  

Tim Albright is arguably the most successful podcaster in AV. He started his career in radio, and somehow wound up becoming and AV consultant. He’s also worked as a control systems programmer and university technology manager before founding AVNation. AVNation is a network of AV professionals whose goal is to further the AV industry through education and knowledge. They do that through blog posts and covering industry events and they are most well known for podcasting. Their flagship podcast, AVWeek, was first recorded in 2011 and provides a weekly overview of the AV industry. Over the years they have launched several other podcasts like ResiWeek, EdTech and my personal favourite, A State Of Control. Transcript This transcription was created with IBM Watson's Speech To Text service. Computers aren't perfect. Please keep that in mind when reading the transcript. [spoiler title="Read More..."] Pat: Greetings everyone in AV lands my name is Patrick Murray and welcome to software defined survival, where we interview the people and companies in AV that you software to re invent themselves and the way they do business. We listen to their stories and asks for as for tactics and device on how to survive and even thrive in this software defines world.   I'm excited about our first guest on the show he is arguably the most successful podcaster in AV and before you run away saying what the heck does podcasting have to do with software, I kind of see podcasting and blogging as software defined media. Right? That the podcasts and the blogs and things like that, they don't care where you are and they don't care how you consume it. They don't care what time it is like a radio show and things like that so this is definitely a software defined solution and that's why I'm excited to have this guest.   He started his career in radio and somehow wound up becoming an AV consultant I'll have to ask how that happens and he also worked as a control system programmer and university technology manager before founding easy nation alienation is a network of AV professionals whose goal is to provide to further the AV industry through education and knowledge something that is near and dear to my heart and their flagship podcast TV week was first recorded in two thousand and eleven and it provides a weekly overview of the AV industry if you're in a movie you should definitely check out a few weeks it's a great way to get a a download of what's going on in the industry.   Now over the years they launched several other podcasts like crazy week ed tech and my personal favorite state of control if your navy programmer definitely check out a state of control well ladies and gentlemen Tim Albright.   Tim: Yeah, way too flowery.   Pat: Welcome to the show Tim. Is there anything about that introduction that you'd like to add or expand upon?   Tim: No you don't need me on the show now! Yeah yeah I'm good.   Pat: Nice.   Tim: How are you doing?   Pat: Yeah I'm good I'm good.   Tim: I'm excited for this dude.   Pat: Thank you I appreciate that. I got a couple questions lined up here. We could also let this meander and go wherever it takes us.   Tim: It probably will.   Pat: It probably will. So I know you have kids I have a couple kids myself and one thing you'll never hear a child say is when I grow up I want to be in AV. At least, I haven't heard that one yet. So there's usually a story behind how people wind up in this industry so tell us how did you get started in AV?   Tim: Why are you mention my broadcast and my broadcast background and I was working for radio stations and Lois and must show my my my wife and I Michelle had had had our first child and it was not conducive to having a child was not conducive to being on morning radio which is what I was because you know you get up at stupid o'clock in the morning and you go to bed at you know really early at night and just wasn't conducive for that and so I was starting to look around and the armada the college that I had had gone to school to school at was needing what they described as a in an engineer and somebody to take care of some projector installs once a month once a year and I was annoyed that day I'm, I'm somewhat technical and somewhat you know I can do that and I was already teaching already a production for them and so I was like sure I can do this and so they they they hired me on and what turned in what what started out as being do a couple of projector installs a year turned into holy cow we have no money and we have to upgrade all of these rooms and we have to adjust the programming in these rooms and we have to learn how to properly designed these these rooms so I quickly found myself taking Infocom classes and taking classes from various manufacturers and getting certified to program Sir your fax first and so I buy it we ended up having our own little small band of of designers and installers for our little college I mean we had a hundred ninety rooms which is not it's not small but it's not it's not the size of let's say young university of Illinois which is also listed above out for me but it was it was significant for us and so that got me only involved in AV almost from the get go. I mea, I went to my very first Infocomm shortly after starting there because of the lack of knowledge that I had and I need to get ramped up on so that's how I got involved was you need to do a career change and of finding myself you know in the ceiling trying to put together a five wire BNC and and getting a multi meter out to figure out why the heck my yellow look weird.   Pat: Exactly switching that the black and white wires.   Tim: Well, I started making cables with all kinds of short so that's why I that's what I used to multi meter is yeah every yeah eventually got better at it .   Pat : So you mentioned your first visit to Infocomm do you remember what your first impressions were kind of walking into that hall?   Tim: Holy crap, are you kidding me? I fell in love I honestly it well it wasn't the work and it was in the I love the work it was it was good work and I I still I still control is still my favorite part of of a B. and and probably always will be , but when I walked in the show floor this is this is back in the mid to late two thousands arm so wasn't the size it is now I was absolutely flabbergasted me, I had never been to anything like that like it before my life I'd never to the C. S. as as a as a journalist I'd been to a number of junk it's a movie junkets where they fight about interview people in this up now and go see movies and those are smaller by by a large margin but I never been to any be a detriment to CS and so this is my first trade show experience and I walked in the show for and I'm just awestruck and I'm like I don't want to do anything else I simply don't want to do anything else and I remember walking around and talking to folks and you know that was when I got to meet a lot of folks that I still you know consider friends today I mean I it was when when I will I met body mind his name is Kevin who happens to work for Crestron but you know met him there and I met them for the folks that just to kind of took me under their wing and said okay here's this here's as dumb kid that does not anything let's, let's show him a thing or two.   Pat: Yeah there's nothing like having a mentor in those first years to know an explain things that are that are now probably totally obvious to you.   Tim: And obsolete. Just for the record.   Pat: Well, Yeah, RGBHV byebye.   Pat: So everybody in AV usually has a at least one nightmare project under their belt. Let's not talk about that. Maybe you could tell me about your most rewarding AV projects and what made it special for you?   Tim: Oh wow, see that one is harder. I can tell you can tell you my nightmare story off the top of my head. So this is not one that I specifically did but I was in charge of I mention the fact that I work for college and the largest the largest construction project that we were a part of the college I where I went to over the cards that I've I worked at was a small community college and it was it was bigger than what it should have been. It's it's it has delusions of grandeur at time and it's a good thing right I'm not I'm not saying that as a negative I'm saying that they have delusions of grandeur and all the times they meet those right so this is a community college who reaches beyond what the normal community college to play does they wanted to do a research center right this organization called script switches scripts ocean Oceana ocean out ripple oceanography is that right oceanic scripts motioning research center are they study the ocean well I live in Illinois, I live in southwest Illinois just outside of Saint Louis. We live on the Mississippi, the biggest outside of the Amazon the biggest of fresh water longest waterway in the in the North America there's nothing like that. Right there's nothing and so they wanted to develop a research center I community college, building a research center for the for the rivers. And where Alton is which is the whole time I live and it actually happens to be right at the confluence between the Illinois Mississippi and the Missouri rivers so not only are you on the biggest river in North America you're also at this very unique place between where all these three rivers come togther, right. So that's kind of the backstory here, they have this this grand idea are they partner with a bunch of people I know like we're gonna build this, right? It is a platinum level or gold level LEED certified building, right. I think when they started out they were going platinum and I think eventually they got gold. And we were tasked with doing all the AV in this research facility. Now there have been a couple other projects where they they built this this four story twenty million dollar research facility a year or two earlier and we spec'd out right. That was you're talking about thirty or forty rooms I think , six lecture halls that was subbed out we helped with the design and we we assisted with some of the direction but we did not do that. We did this research facility and at the end of the day when we had the grand opening and and this that and the other, you walk through and everything's working and everything's exactly you know what kind of the way you envisioned it as a designer so it was the first project as as a AV person as an A. V. professional, as a programmer, as a designer, as an installer you could sit back and go: „yeah we did that and it freaking rocks“.   Pat: Nice! It does happen once in awhile. Has it ever happened again?   Tim: No, well like that, I mean we've had a couple others while we were there like I said we were there and had the AV because we had to.   Pat: Is that why you had that kind of success with it, because yeah because the control you have over the projects?   Tim: Yes,absolutely! No it was one of these things where we were actually brought in early enough and every AV person in the world will tell you, the earlier we can get brought in the more successful going to half and we were able to do things like you know have conversations about you know the network and have conversations and this is early on with video over IP and integrating we used a,video conferencing system it was like the second or third video conferencing system college never had. We had two of them in this building because they were visiting scientists from all over the world who had their own water ways that they were concerned with they would come to this resurfaced research facility, because it was one of a kind of I believe it still as it was, one of a kind and so you had folks from China on you had folks from our member Argentina and Venezuela coming here. And so they needed to talk to their compatriots in a secure manner so we had we were tasked with creating a secure BTC system and something that was easy for them to use and understand and you know this was back way before anybody considered you know one button usability we had a one button system where they all they had to do was you know come in and and we were working with the the scheduling software and they can hit a button and they were connected to their people. If it was the right time and the right schedule.     Pat: Very nice. There's a few things I want to impact there. Like somebody told me recently when a professor in a university for example. When they have a hard time with this technology, it kind of takes away from their credentials a bit. Right, if if they're like supposed to be this really smart person and they're fumbling around with the touch panel, it it kind of takes away from the authority that they have. So something like a one touch button, you know, where anybody could really use it, then they can get on with their own job.     Tim: So, so I have a story about that. I have over the years worked with a couple integrators in Saint Louis. I still do work for one group. Just because I've known him for twenty years and they're good friends. One of the first times I was on a significant ,college and university in Saint Louis .I'm not gonna say which one. We were replacing a touchpanel and we get there and this touchpanel is concaved,right and this is an old, if you're familiar with the old Crestron quick media systems, it was a seventeen inch quick media touch panel, so this was not a cheap device to replace. It was somewhere between fifteen and twenty grants and the the entire center of it is concave and I'm like „what in the world happened to this?“   Pat: I think, I know what happened.   Tim: There's this professor, who has like fifteen doctorates, probably like four or five, but still has a number of doctorates and is the first time using the system and just like any other good programmer you put in a cool down screen, when you're using a projector, especially back then right.   Pat: Sure.   Tim: And he said, how dare this thing tell me to wait two minutes so I can restart the system. And put his fist through it.   Pat: Wow, he actually punched the touch panel.   Tim: No, no he wailed on the touchpanel, to the point where it was busted.   Pat: Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening to this, or I hope there are. Thant wanted to do that themselves once or twice.   Tim: Oh, I'm certain.   Pat: I know a guy, who threw his laptop across the room once, programmer.   Tim: Laptop? I've done that too.   Pat: Yeah? I always wanted to, never had the guts to do it. I wanted to believe it, but never had the guts to actually do it. So the other thing I wanted to talk about on that story was. I always like it, because a lot of times we do these projects and we go away and we never see how the rooms are used and usually it's some generic thing that you know we never really can appreciate at all. So I like the fact that you actually knew about people using the room and how they're using it. Like scientists coming together from all over the world and actually using your technology to collaborate and really produce results. That’s something I think we don't get to see often enough.   Tim: Well especially folks like you, right. And you know folks, who are either independent programmers right. You guys are the mercenaries of the industry you get called in or subbed out and you don't. Alright, you go in and you know, I've talked about this before, you're kind of unique, because you're in Germany, you get to go around to different parts, different countries in you Amsterdam and done jobs. I've done jobs, not a whole lot of outside of Saint Louis but a couple of size and Louis. And you're right, if you are in this position, you're never going to go back to that job, hopefully. As long as everything worked correctly and see how they use it. Now being a tech manager, if you are a tech manager, yes, you get that you get that that ability you get that opportunity to do it on two different levels. First of all, if you're decent, if you are a tech manager worth their salt, you should at least be there or be available for folks especially new an incoming faculty to use your systems. Now you and I both know, that if you have to have instructions on how to use a touch panel the new done a poor job of designing the touch panel. But there are people with five doctor too that can't turn on a light switch successfully. Sometimes.   Pat: They've got their minds on other things.   Tim: Absolutely they do. So we actually developed a number of modules because we still had we're still going from one control system to another control system even when I left, because that we have had with at one standard we're moving to another so we had about three different, types of of control systems are at our college, so we had different models we had recorded them in and let met what made them available to new incoming faculty so I can get used to it right. If you're in this building with this is the type of system we have in this building this is how you access your but this building it's just a bunch of you know it's a it's a wall plate with a couple buttons this is how you do you you access it. And so, you would still be able to go and and and and walk through and and kind of be available the first couple weeks of of classes, to make sure that everything kind of works and and kind of comes off without a hitch. Pat: Very nice. Lets a shift gears for a minute and talk about AV Nation. Where did the...   Tim: Why? I'm not very serious Patrick, you should know by now.   Pat: Yeah I'm good I'm getting that, so I'll try to tone it down a little bit. Tim: No, you’re fine   Pat: It’s my first podcast , give me a break, I'll loosen up.   Tim: I have three hundred forty one AV weeks and I am not gonna count the other ones, so.   Pat: Nice, so where the original idea come from?   Tim: Oh Lord, so you mentioned very very nicely my broadcast background. I was weaned and kind of developed as a broadcast journalist at the the preeminent news talk stations at Lewis called KMOX. I had a job before I ever left college there and so I was able to rub shoulders with and learn from some of the best in the business it was it was owned by CBS at the time and so we were trained in the CBS way of of how to gather news. And said that that is my pedigree when it comes to the broadcast journalists part. And when I got involved in the AV industry and fell in love with it, that kind of put that down for a while I still taught on radio production in audio production, but actually since 2006, I was teaching students how to podcast I wasn't doing it myself, but I I saw it as an opportunity for up and coming broadcasters to cut their teeth and and and kind of stretch their legs and stretch their wings and see what's possible on in the realm of audio. And in 2005/2006 I was turned on to this week in tech by Leo Laporte. It's the twit network, yeah he has several podcasts, he's probably the most successful podcaster period. And possibly Adam Corolla has passed him at this point from a network standpoint I would say that Leo was probably up there. And so listening to that on a weekly basis, he does tech in general, right, so he does you know cell phones, computers and switches and all kind of stuff.   Pat: Everything.   Tim: Everything. And he also does for two hours a week which is way more than than I can I can do. So I was looking for something, right and, so there were a couple of people who have who have were already doing something not what I was looking for but they were doing something Essien at the time and that's when I see an atomic medications was doing a monthly video podcast are where they would bring people into a studio and they would talk about a specific project, right. So it was kind of white paper, a video version of a white paper.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: Wasn't what I was looking for. What I was looking for the twit version of the the AV version of twit, right. I want the news that I wanted it in a succinct way and I want it on a weekly basis. Nobody had it.   Pat: Right.   Tim: Right and I don't know that anybody's still does .   Pat: Maybe in prints, but certainly not weekly, right.   Tim: But not weekly, right. And so on it's one of these things where necessity breeds invention I didn't have what I wanted and so I made it.   Pat: Scratch your own itch.   Tim: Yeah, I mean I could see again I'm an old radio guy in and I've been in television as well and and I think that that medium has a lot to offer people. You get to learn people's voices and I don't mean that any any in the literal sense I mean, folks understand that I am as much, a lover of this industry, as I am not overly serious about it. And I was I don't take ourselves too seriously I've made the comment both on the air off the year it's our team and other people. If the projector doesn't work no one is going to die, right. You know it's not life and death and you have to understand kind of where your your places in the world. We make experiences. And I'm I'm gonna totally steal this line here, we make great experiences and our job as as a nation is kind of what we've developed into and what we were allies and and me still learning how to be a businessman, because I'm a producer that's my pedigree is, we speak directly to the integrators on a weekly basis, right. Way back when it when I was a radio we had, you will be called an avatar with this is the person that we're talking to. My avatar for AV nation specifically for a AV week are the folks the integrators who are are driving into their office on Monday morning: Why is it that they need to know for that week to be successful? Right? And that question has driven, darn near everything that we've done. It's driven the deep dive into the other, what I'll call niche podcast that we do on a monthly basis and that includes the state of control which is controlled automation that includes AV. social which is shell social media and marketing. Which is kind of developed into more marketing and social media because boxing in under understand how to talk to their clients, right. It drove a show actually from one of our underwriters, to look at the on the IT in A. V. and how they each influence each other. It drove a show that I developed probably a year ago with a consulting firm, called on the eighty profession. And that looks at you know ways to make your business better. Has nothing to do with the with the actual technology of AV, but it is about how to be better at your business. You know we've done everything from interview consultants who will help you with your business to interview business authors, on how to get consumer consumers. I'd just interviewed a guy who I was turned on to by a buddy of mine that I've developed a relationship with the Name Ian Altman. Ian is a fanstastic sales person to bend tastic sales consulting. He's spoken of a Bacchae spoke in other places you spoke with PSNI and super summit. Well, Ian turned me on this other guy by the name of Markus Sheridan. He is probably one of the best experts that I've ever read, when it comes to content marketing, he turned a like this closed bankrupt, swimming pool company in the middle of the recession, he turned around with about a year and a half through content marketing. And reading his story and reading his take on it, is fascinating and it's incredibly important to people in the A. V. industry. Title of his book is: „They asky you answer.“ It’s very simple.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: Your clients are going to ask you questions. Probably to the sales people, when they ask you questions, you answer it, in a not only obviously you know, Patrick is my client even assuming email say „Hey what about this and what what what's what's the steel with with HDMI to that on? How ist his gonna affect us?“ Okay, well first of all: Into the question to the client directly right now this is going to how it's going to do it this is this is what it's doing but then you send it to your marketing people and say „Hey we have a question, because, an old rule of thumb in broadcasting is that, between five and ten percent of your audience will ever ever contact you ever, I don't care if you're given a million million dollars will between five and ten percent of your of your audience will ever call and we'll ever email you ever contact you same is true in the business world. Between five and ten percent of your clients will ever ask you a question that is meaningful. You know, how they're going to be affected you take those nuggets, because I will guarantee you, that at least, twenty of the twenty other clients have the exact same question, they're just not gonna ask you.   Pat: Sure   Tim: Or potential clients may have that same question- they are not gonna ask you.   Pat: Trash.   Tim: But if you have this piece of content over here, right and they're searching how will HDMI two do affect me? Boom you have an article. Boom you have a video whatever, so it's stuff like this that has driven our content to say you know how it how can we best help integrators and in all honesty also tech managers do their job better and be more successful.   Pat: Great stuff. I mean really does a lot of stuff to tackle their. How do you know what to write? That's something I always come up against, because of course this idea of putting content out there, that's all people find you. It's basically SEO, which sounds a little fishy, if you ask me, but if you are just writing stuff that people want to know about and they do find you, nothing is better than that. And I know what you mean like I ask, I have my online courses and I ask students all the time. „Please tell me what's wrong?“ and they never answer me. It's like pulling teeth getting any kind of feedback- out of anybody. And blog posting it takes a lot of time. It's really time consuming. It's a lot of fun, because it really makes you dig deep into a subject and become more knowledgeable about it and really start to look at it from different angles that you might not have considered, but again that time investment how do you decide what to write about.   Tim: So we've done a couple different things. First of all we started taking our shows and regardless of the show there's going to be at least two or three different topics on each episode and and we've started pulling and culling information from there. But me personally, my personal blog it's what I'm interested in, right. It's what's hit me are within the last week or two weeks and right now this week I am formulating and doing some research for a blog about how the terrorists are going to impact the industry in North America large adversely beyond North America in the US our current president has put tariffs on steel, well let's not be silly a lot of our products are made with with feel , you know what the rack rack is a big giant piece of steel arm based metal and so I'm trying to do some research right now, because that to me is interesting and that's a question that nobody's asked yet. Is how are the how are the policies of not just this president every president, impacting our industry you know you look at what is it Brazil is one of the biggest exporters to us of steel. Guess what, they are also one of the biggest importer of what they are one of the biggest importers of US Cole. To make this deal.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: So you know, you're looking at stuff like this going, okay you know and at the end of the day whether it's you know Atlas or it's Middle Atlantic or its Chief and I'm just naming three you've got so many other people sure like a bank, that use steel every single day. And our listeners are users are clients or customers, how are they going to be impacted not today not tomorrow because they've already got a warehouse full of steel, but in six months or a year and then how do they decide whether or not to pass that shards alone? You know the first question is is there going to be an increase right. That's the number one question as you know this Atlas I eat is atlas and their racks had to they have to increase the price of middle when it comes to increase their price and if the question is yes it's almost like programming right, if yes then what's right and then you then the manufacturer has to make a decision without a past that that charge along most the time they have to, their business, they have to truck bass along the their their cost increases. And then okay so your you know H. B. can occasions are here city Iowa St Louis your rack price just went up ten percent okay you've designed a system you have a spec out will suddenly you're losing ten points right so how did you recoup that cost and hopefully you haven't done so are too far out right to where it's going to hurt you that much. But then how do you how do you adjust your prices again their business so they have to salute laces Hannah and so it just trickles on down to you know the final customer whether it's education reporter five hundred operation they've got to you know explain the situations I look you know. Our metal prices increased down the line, you know.   Pat: It could, putting my programmer hat on, use less hardware. It could cause people to, right?   Tim: That's actually a good point.   Pat: Just their system design, put less stuff in the rac, right? That big matrix switch can be compressed down to a network switch and maybe the numbers would work out that way. Could be an interesting angle for to solve that kind of issue.   Tim: Where people to more video over IP and not do it over a switcher. You'll also from a program from a control standpoint to you know move more toward software as opposed to you know a three to direct high, processor moved to software to where I somewhere in the cloud someone the network.   Pat: Now how about that all due to the price of steel you the way things are all kind of connected to each other. You were talking about how the business podcast and I think that's another great subject because there really is no how to. And in A.V. for a long time everybody's always been busy. But with things changing, I kind of wonder, if in a few years from now, the flow of projects will change, just a little bit, if things do become more software based. Right the whole integrators maybe to change their business model. I mean it there was talk of this years ago, as margin started to go down with with Amazon you could buy display on Amazon. But the model still doesn't seem to be service based for the most part at all. It's still his margin based model of selling hardware.   Tim: They trying.   Pat: Yeah, well that's exactly the point. That I'm trying to make is like, there's no how to, to make that jump. And have you bumped into any resources on on a podcast to try to just help us you know take this thing apart and and figure out a new way to put it back together.   Tim: Not on that possible broadcasters specifically. What I run into is some folks were doing it well. And I've run into those folks at different industry events. Two or three of my favorite events have nothing to do with the technology. They all had to do about the business of AV.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: And there's absolutely reasons to go to ISE, there's absolute reasons to go to Infocomm and all the other technology trade shows. Certainly you get to see cold things you get to do things you know it and and experience things, but what I would say is that there is more of a reason to go to these business centric our shows as well these business centric meetings.   Pat: Do you have any examples?   Tim: Well there's the three that I have is my super summit which that's only for PS my folks, in the CIA's BLC would stand for business leadership conference and then of ex is a back which is the A. B. executive conference. Is not taken out mean there's not there's not a technology showcase their. These are folks that are going to you're going to have a chance to talk with your peers, what other business owners.   Pat: Right     Tim: And find out what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong and how they can help you and honestly how you can help them. And in doing so, you know you're gonna be able to see what's worked in what's doesn't. You know we're obviously that there are regional differences in their cultural differences, not only across you know international borders but also on the scene in the US there's regional, cultural differences as big as we are. But the basics are the same, right and understanding that and it was it was actually at the BLC three years ago now, I ran into a young man who was in charge of emigration from up in Maine, which is singled out of the way. But but they were doing service and support, as a AV as a service and support through their clients right, they had they had taken the the sass model the software as a service model and convertible into AV rather successfully and they did it through number different ways number one was was the monitoring and maintaining of their systems. But that conversation and coupled with a couple different conversation with some other and integrators who had moved to AV as a service through not only monitoring but also leasing, the equipment.   Pat: The equipment, okay.   Tim: So it's not yellow you Patrick as the client you don't own anything, right. My contract with you says you're gonna have the latest greatest stuff within five years, every year, so it's my job to make sure that the system is up and running and maintained and that you have the latest greatest you don't have to worry about you know end of life for a projector or display or a control processor. Your stuff is just gonna work and it's my job to figure that out. Now you're going to pay me for that, right you gonna pay me for that, because suddenly you you don't have a need for a support team you know have a need for you know having somebody physically on site because I'm gonna come within and you know depending on base on the contract but within an hour five hours twenty four hours depending on what the contract says. I'm going to support you, to this to this degree.   Pat: Do those numbers work out?   Tim: It does for some people, it does for some organizations right for some for some clients they get, right.   Pat: Is it really just an understanding thing or because you could put this in black and white: over the next ten years, system it will cost you X. and doing that as a service option will cost also X.   Tim: X, plus some. Understand that, it's not, it's not the cheapest option, right.   Pat: But you are not laying out the money up front.   Tim: You’re not laying out the money up front: You're eliminating in you do you hate to talk about you know people line jobs for your limiting a jobber too are so your cost of off that. Number three you don't have to deal with the the half life of certain products of equipment and then you don't have to mess with what do you do with that product that that equipment once it's been taken out and that is actually one of the dirty little secrets of A V. Especially from a technology manager standpoint.   Pat: Sure.   Tim: What the heck do you do with this crap, once you've taken out of the rack.   Pat: It's useless.   Tim: Seriously I had the office I had it at Lewis and Clark, which is the college I worked at, it was, our head in for our master control for our our internal TV station, okay. So I had it you know five racks worth of equipment the set the other about time. I left there I had replaced everything in that rack, when I got there. It was all old CRTs and an old old analog equipment.   Pat: Big stuff too .   Tim: I all of my gosh I had, replaced everything in that rack to where it was down to two racks. I had a back room full of gear.   Pat: Yeah, try ebaying it.   Tim: Ebaying it is worth less right, because you you get five or ten Bucks. But then so we only end up doing electronic recycling our college had a green initiative in this and other once a year , we electronically cycle and that's where a lot of those old five wire switchers went right to a company that we knew that that are college had had bedded they knew what they did with the equipment once they got it and and they were responsible about the way that they dispose of it. But you know that's one of those things that folks don't really think about because you know I don't care what the VCR with the doc came from her years ago. This stuff has first of all has hazardous material and right now people think about that but you've got lead in there you've got ill do it like this electronics have got crap in it that probably shouldn't go into the ground how do you responsibly dispose of that and some companies absolutely do really good job of that they'll have a program to where the either get a credit to their their clients are the height say „Hey I'll take this off your hands and as we know how to properly dispose of it“. Absolutely there is that there's also I would say a large majority of folks we simply don't know what to do with you know a sixteen by sixteen BJ switcher, once they take it out and replaced it with the with a digital equipment.   Pat: Right, so that's like another bonus of that as a service modelle right, they would take care of that that final tasks. So it sounds like this is all as a service model is more about convenience it'll cost a little more but you get a ton of convenience it's like kind of like what Rich does as a white glove service. So what's the hold up?   Tim: Getting the AV sales people to wrap their head around it.   Pat: Are we, so we are our own worst enemy, kind of.   Tim: Absolutly, it’s just like every industry by way.   Pat: Yeah, okay, sure, but this is like a real opportunity to grow, because you know within a service model, you know how much is coming in every month for the next five years. These are contracts as opposed to the way we do things now, a project comes in, you get it done and then you basically start from zero again.   Tim: I think some of is also cultural, going back to that, but yet it's cultural as well, because you have a business that has a business plan. And it is in their business plan to sell ex amount in their hiring the salespeople to sell a system.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: I'm not so the contractor and some of that's it you know some that's also a cultural shift internally to say okay we're going to make the shift. I would say that the folks that I know they had gone to the service model alright there are sure to migrate to art are incredibly successful.   Pat: Yeah.   Tim: I am certain that there are failures out there. I have not heard of them, but I'm certain there are values out there, people who for whatever reason whether it's their market or their client base or whatever. Just couldn't get off the ground. Then gone back to to doing you know sales and and a service as a separate item.   Pat: Okay, so to shift to an end as a service model, is obviously a big investment, right. It would it completely changes everything. Is there a pass to do it incrementally?   Tim: That actually is how you almost have to do it, right? You can't exactly do on mass, you would have to take it , object right so you get an RFP, or you are selling to a client and you know you're listening to them and you're hearing their their big pain points. But that's the other part is this is not for everybody , there are some folks who eaten will never let you monitor their network okay ever let you monitor their system. So unless you can overcome that hurdle, it's not gonna be a very successful AV as in service installation. So that you use a limited arsenal system.   Pat: That could be handled with staffing no?   Tim: Yes and no. I mean yes, you can put somebody physically on on site, right. And then that's another cost.   Pat: Right.   Tim: Some cost, but yeah absolutely.   Pat: Okay, interesting stuff. Let's shift gears back again to....you know that kind of reminds me of, is like you were saying, to start incrementally like I tell programmers just do something small you know find your smallest projects, if you want to learn a new programming language and tried on that something that you know you could go back to your old language and do in just a few minutes. But just just try it on a really small project first. And that's how you that's a gain confidence with these things- that's how you start to that so you go from crawling to walking.   Tim: That's why the most famous phrase and all the programming is „hello world“.   Pat: Yeah, there you go.   Tim: Seriously, because that right there is you know if you can do „hello world“ in a language then you can go from there.   Pat: Yeah, definitely. So speaking of control, „state of control“, but I'm a big fan of it, obviously.   Tim: I am too.   Pat: It's actually, you know, hearing everybody, she knows that I respect, talk about the different ways to approach AV control it's it's kind of inspired me a bit to follow up on some of my own ideas and develop them and even try out a new product or so on the market. They don't know it, didn't always work but.   Tim: Oh they will.   Pat: Do you know of any similar stories on estate control or any other podcasts where somebody's been inspired to really take action and do something with the information that that you guys are providing?   Tim: There are a lot actually over the years.   Pat: Pick your favorite.   Tim: I'm trying to think, but I will probably will I'll stick with state control and the good lord this has been, two or three years ago now. I can't remember. Crestron came out with their diamond level programming. If you're not familiar with with Crestron sort of by programmers there are, number of years there was sweat three different metals and was bronze silver and gold and then they came out with platinum and then they came out with diamond. And we did a special episode with the first ever diamond programmers. Now two of them were Crestron employees but still there was there was four of them that were that were first ever and out of that Labadie Dave hats started talking about doing diamond and he became a diamond level year later the first ever diamond that I ever knew personally right. I knew the couple of the posters of the question that but I didn't know them really well the day was the incredible fantastic very talented diamond level programmerer.   Pat: But we should also point out that it's about three weeks of work to do that certification.   Tim: Well, more than that, because then you have to do it, you have to keep it you, have to teach every year.   Pat: So it's a real investment.   Tim: It's incredible investment and even with the one thing that I find fascinating, is you have to teach outside of your discipline and what I mean by that is, Dave is a network programmer, he could take you know network control and and and run with all day long he's a commercial programmer, he has done commercial programming for years, so the first class he did was buy a home.   Pat: Was resi.   Tim: Was residential automation. Fish out of water. As our water and that's with a duty right. That's what they do to you. To stretch your arms and to get you kind of on the path of making sure that you are not as a real well rounded, right. I'm obviously Hatz probably has you know, fifteen pro3's in this house and use fully automated the only service dog food every morning you know outlaw doc brown. But you know it it's, there is something where it's you're getting outside of your comfort zone and outside of what you do on a daily basis.   Pat: So, I've had to make his decision myself and I decided for the time being not to make that huge investment in the next level of Crestron programming just because, yeah, does it really make a difference? And you know, from what you're telling me, this guy was inspired to make this huge investment, from one of your shows. I don't know, what do you think, does it really? Maybe it's a country thing, here in Germany maybe they just don't look at certifications the same way. They all kind of look the same and blur, but is there, yeah.   Tim: This is why it depends: You're an independent programmer. I have been outside of the spec part of the AV industry for probably too long, so I understand that when I say what I'm gonna say. I have not yet run into a situation, where somebody has put on us back, that they want a diamond level programmer. It doesn't mean, that they're not out there. I'm just saying that I have not personally run into or heard about a spec I ate in our P. where somebody has put down but they want a diamond level I am certain that there is at least one or two out there that that they've asked for. And the other side of that is there very few situations where it be where it would be warranted.   Pat: Well, that's the other thing, yeah.   Tim: By and large most course for most programmers I know Crestron AMX external, most of them that are worth their salt and they get they get their certification, can handle a vast majority, of thrown at them. Yes, there are building automation's where you know what you're doing. right. And for that I would say a higher level of certification would be needed. And what you should be called out of respect, but if that's what your business is and that's what you talk about what you do on a daily basis a personal question then.   Pat: You know, sure sure, got to be decided on a case by case basis   Tim: Yep.   Pat: Alright shifting back TV nation. I remember running into you a few years ago and you quietly whispered to me in my ear that you were I'm gonna go a hundred percent all in with AV Nation. Do you remember that time?   Tim: I do.   Pat: So what was the biggest reason was the biggest thing that that gave me the confidence to make that jump?   Tim: Two things. First one the the support of my wife. Of any ship flight that you have to have the support of your partner, regardless of who that is.   Pat: Absolutely.   Tim: Certainly it was it was a weird combination. So we had just started monetizing aviation and and by what I said just I mean we had this was the first start, we had just started taking on money from other people up at that point it was completely financed by me. I was financing and by doing some outside jobs. We had just completed our first trip ISE, which was a can credibly successful Kickstarter for us. It was very humbling, because up to that point well Infocomm was a trip that almost went to anyway. So we were kinda able to kind of couple together and I could cover whatever nobody else could. But ISE was different, ISE was a big chunk of money. It was ten grand was our budget show and our listeners came through in our supporters came through in a huge winds quickly on more, but also prove something that we could do it and we could do it differently, than other people and that's kind of what our thing is. We cover the industry in a unique way because we're all in the industry. And so I wanted to finance it in a different way to kinda keep with with who we are. And so after I see that year was actually I was I is the twenty fifteen twenty fifteen to that I was looking around like, okay what's what makes sense to me and I'm a big fan of NPR and PBS and BBC in the UK and an image are an arcane and just the way they think their model is which is pretty much be a publicly financed but no undue influence, I guess the best way to put this.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: And so the way that we have our contracts with our underwriting structured is, there's no real influence. And you know that's just kind of the the way we we wanted to go. And so we were starting to take on some money, not a whole lot but enough to offset into where I didn't have to the side projects anymore. And the company that I worked for, was eighty eight, independent programming house. I was the they operate the ops manager for. We got sold to a local integration firm in Saint Louis of folks that I have a lot of respect for. Good friends with. They were one of our biggest clients at at the time. And some sitting in this meeting and not really knowing what to expect from them. They were very gracious, they had all these ideas for me. They wanted to do this and this and this and I'm sitting here in this meeting going „this is a unique place in my life, this is a unique time and I have an opportunity, I can absolutely take this job. I could take this job and I could work this job for a year two years five years whatever. But AN Nation at the time was in a unique spot that I was I it was it was when those moments where you either take it full bore and and and and take it out and spend it and take it out for a test drive and see what it's capable of. Or you just keep in the garage and it's something that you can tinker with on the weekend.   And in that moment I just kind of decided well this is this is my time to figure out whether or not this is something real or not. Without this is something that people can really honestly sustain or not.   And I told them that and I remember the owner, who's become a very good friend of mine and one of my business mentors, says „well it sounds like you're quitting, before you ever start“ and I said, „well I kind of am“ and so I left that meeting oddly on cloud nine. Not having a job. I was unemployed, thoroughly. And it has been the scariest and craziest two and a half years of my life and I would not do it differently.   Pat: Excellent. I like how you mentioned you had to recognize the opportunity, that was happening. It was the it was a special opportunity that came you had the Kickstarter you had maybe a few underwriters so you kind of proven that there was a need for it that it could become something and then the company getting sold was kind of a catalyst to to kind of snap your into reality and say „wait a minute, I can either do this or that“ and then you chose this road. So what was what was really your biggest concern at the time what what were you worried about?   Tim: Paying my bills.   Pat: Yeah obviously.   Tim: I mean so it's interesting, that when I tell people my story, they're the ones that one of the more common questions is „you have your wife“ and yet „you have kids right like „yeah yeah that I've a mortgage I have to to pay for in Ohio.   Pat: Are you mentally stable?   Tim: No, no I'm not. You know, but now that's that's the biggest concern every month you know and and you know there are months that are better than others. And well I have a really good friend, I have known Michael for over twenty years he has recently in the last year and a half he has gone out on his own is does he does IT consulting. And he will be on me the powerful, for advice and I'm you know is is one thing we were I'll tell him is like looking out there there are going to be days and they're gonna be months that are horrible, right where you are going to question your own sanity in question your own your own brains. But we've gotten to the point where we are are stable and we are solid. And I'm I'm happy with on or the underwriters that we have them happy with the group that we've got and so out of that stability you okay so what were stable now it's taken us two and a half years to get stable but were stable so okay so what does any good entrepreneur wants wants a stable, you try to grow right.   And so we're in the process of doing some things that were were assessing some things and going okay you know what can we do to be a silly bigger for her sake but what can we do better? Right? What what can we do better how can we do things are even more differently and how can we reach more people and how can we do it more efficiently and how can we make our underwriters lives easier and how can we connect with more integrators and and what are we not just covering and were we not doing and you know we we started doing adjustments expo last year twenty seventeen. For the first time and we are doing it again this year, because our integrators are telling us that deals digital signage as a particle is important to them, so okay so you spend two days in Vegas right honestly Patrick it's the cheapest show that I do , from a from a cost standpoint, so it is the least expensive show that we cover and it's you know I'm in Saint Louis so I tell people, I'm spoiled as far as he is whites it takes me I get any place in the country in three hours you know at the most and Vegas is among those and you know southwest being southwest you can get in a fight pretty cheaply and you know hotels in Vegas Sir you depends on where you stay obviously but you know those little relatively inexpensiveunless you go during CIS, which I've heard really horror stories about that, but that's a whole nother issue: But you know it's it to you you grow from a stability standpoint and a you stretch and you see what's possible and you know we're not perfect by any stretch the imagination we have our own issues and and we're still learning how to be a website as opposed to in in addition to being a podcast company and that comes with that with its own challenges, because it's something that we never had to worry about you know was a website traffic because our our podcasting traffic is is what it does. And so that comes with is its own set of challenges and trying to shore that up and and learn because as a business owner I have to make I have to make intelligent decisions so the way that I make decisions, I want to learn everything about right I'll be an expert but I had to have I have to know enough to make an informed decision, so you know learning about you know things like you mentioned SEO and learning about things like making sure things are in proper categories and making sure that your , you're promoting so proper and all this other „hoo hah“ that I never had to worry about you know five years ago. So that's a learning. It's a way that we can we're able to become better and and serve our clients in in our our listeners better is okay, we're good you know we're or stable now now let's start stretching.   Pat: Excellent, sounds great. Any plans for the future you'd care to share with us?   Tim: Take over the world.   Pat: Really? With a podcast?   Tim: Absolutly. Here’s the thing- we I see online media, as not just the future of media in general, but I see it as as kind of where we're going as a society and I do mean it is a global society. I still believe in print, I think print is a is a fantastic medium, I think the journalists that worked at The New York Times SEM are fantastic people. Right? I think they do an incredible job of what they do, but I also look at what time magazine is doing on time magazine, if you've never heard of them is little magazine right, but they start out being being a print magazine. If you go to Times website you're going to see as much video as you are written conduct and you take the flip side of that company that started out as being just as video on that CNN, CNN start out being just video right. It was the cables news network, well with the the onset of of the of the internet are there is much written as they are video on their website now so you've got you've got to be as a media company you have to be everything are you have to provide folks written content as well as video and I would argue also as well as audio all you have to give your audience what they want in the format that they wanted an you regardless of whether you're covering audio visual or you're covering politics you have to give folks what you what they want in the way that they want it. And it took us a long time to realize that it really really dead because I thought blocks right I thought blogs I thought press releases I fought you know written content I'll let them right on the folks that help me run AV Nation will tell you that but I finally realize that you know what yet not everybody likes listening to me talk right not everybody likes looking and looking and then when watching some people just simply like to read , okay so you gonna go down that road as well. But no I mean I am I am fully ensconced in my business owners share. !I wanna take over the world, I want to be the number one you know audio visual media platform, I want to be the number one audio visual media company out there I would be number one and I I say that very humbly and but very honestly you know I am also a competitor, as well as a broadcaster and so how you do that you listen to your people you listen to you you listen to people who give you feedback , you make adjustments and you say okay to that just don't work and if it didn't well then you go back to the drawing board okay what what what's next.   Pat: Excellent, excellent. Well, you're doing a great job you're definitely on the path. You know I'm a big fan. I remember the first time you called me for a programming job, that's the first time we met.   Tim: Yep.   Pat: And I was like holy crap, it's Tim, I heard your voice on the other side of a phone and not coming through my car speakers, so yeah there's a there's a lot about the power of you know audio and voice and things like that but but the other know die that you were mentioning it sounds a lot like the way people learn too. Like some people learn better with text, others with video and I guess the news is a form of of learning too. The next big change could be right, you're saying that there's this move to video. What happens when everybody has a pair of googles?   Tim: No, not everybody will have a pair of googles.   Pat: No, no, because then you're there, like it doesn't get more real.   Tim: Well, the reason I say that is because I am, objects are right I am that you know that that lost generation between the damn boomers in the damn memorials and yeah so we're we're you know we're that we are the forgotten generation at and you know there there is you know our our kids are kids may very well have goggles the more likely than not our grandkids or great grand grand kids may very well have the goggles but in the meantime it is the augmented reality of the cell phone right and you know it it's the reason I say that we we probably don't have goggles is is does he goes back you go back to 3D. one of the main reasons the three D. never really took off to the people who were in the glasses if they don't have to wear glasses.   Pat: Sure.   Tim: I'm thirty three years old and I don't have to wear glasses knock on wood right so do you think Zak like you know my dad was forty when he started wearing his readers and I'm forty three and I still don't have to so I and I will fight it tooth and nail but I I'm legitimately I'm not I'm not fighting and there's a there's a box over there with the small print I can still read it now you know once I get to that point with wearing glasses you know I I don't know that I'll feel differently but I would say that if you don't have to wear glasses you're probably not really apt to even if it's going to give you some weird experiences however okay if you are already looking at yourself or let's be very Frank about it we all are right arm then you you kind of lean towards that and there's there's where some of the the I a are going to come from in our years honestly there's some games out there and there's some programs out there with that I'll let you you know see stuff on your desk if you know if you look at it through the through your lands and I'll give you an augmented reality experience.   Pat: It's gonna be interesting however plays out. So given your background in the AV press do you have any ideas on for somebody if they're coming out with a new software based solution or even if it's hardware based something new and different approach to solving something in AV? Do you have any ideas or advice on how to raise awareness for something like?   Tim: Two things. First of all get yourself a couple integrators to buy into it, because here's the thing so regardless of what the press release says this is the this is the latest greatest thing in the history the world and it will change how everybody does business in a brief period in the sentence right, I just wrote somebody's press release with, it doesn't matter if you don't have somebody to sell it to and to give the people in the press, a use case because with very few exceptions, the vast majority of audiovisual press have never been in the back of Iraq pulling cable.   Pat: Okay.   Tim: And as much respect as I have for them and I have a lot of respect for for everybody that that I work alongside in the process of the AB industry that is one thing that that they don't have as they do they've never worked anywhere right so that you're gonna tell them its latest greatest thing I don't care what the display with its control program over to switcher. They're gonna look at the specs and their comparison up to an old the on the previous model and they're gonna say you know this does X. amount more or this does this and the other and number one the kind of had to take your word for it unless you're there physically going to get a hold a bit and I have the testing equipment to test your hypothesis in in your your marketing speak or they're gonna talk to any writers that they trust that they've developed relationships with. They all do you know they're out there they all do their job right they did they have any brothers that they trust that they can bring to other they can bring a product to and say what do you think about this and why. And then no cultivate you know I'll use their their opinions is as part of their of their coverage because these are the folks are using on a daily and weekly basis, so I would advise you to obviously connect with the press but also connect yourself with some integrators and that you can point the press two and say look here is Susie's AV emporium who's been using this product for six months and this is what they think.   Pat: All right. Great stuff, thanks for that. Tim, I think we can go on for a long time here, we're gonna have to do a part two some time   Tim: Ok, whatever. You're in Germany so you can stay up as late as you will.   Pat: Exactly, I think the kids will be knocking on the door here and running the podcast any minute so...   Tim: It wouldn't be the first time.   Pat: Exactly thank you so much for being on the show.   Tim: Absolutely.   Even with that shift in my head and and shipped in my philosophy, I sat there for probably, five minutes, yeah I'm wearing and blundering and just putting off quitting pressing record, before it will before we did our first show, once I pressed record and I started, it was down hill, but it was the active physically pressing record and saying what I had been trained to say which is three to one before ever start recording, it was that act that I was I was putting off right, I was it was that for whatever reason that pressing that record button was so difficult and in the moment. You know I had talked around I'd never met him before I had Linda from this who was a long time AV industry journalist, out her husband works for, okay booking audio and then I had my buddy Michael physically next to me right we're sitting in my college radio station that I top production and at the time and you know I've got things kind of Jerry rigged between two different computers and and a recording system and it's on the other, but it was until I hit record that it actually started doing anything in my head   Pat: Yeah, have you heard about the war of art?   Tim: No.   Pat: He talks about exactly that it calls it the resistance he gives it a name he calls it resistance and he goes into this whole book is explaining how the resistance is out to get you and prevent me from doing everything you're meant to do it's it's a great book, are the war of art tour of art and, it's a good one to read for ten minutes in the morning to then she did to fix your head right.   Tim: Okay. 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Susan Hyatt is a master certified life coach, weight loss expert, and the author of BARE. She’s the creator of the trademarked BARE Process, the BARE Deck, a podcast called BARE, and an online community called BARE DAILY. We talk about: Helping women stop dieting How you know the inner voices are not your higher self How to silence the voice of the Inner Mean Girl Flipping the dialogue away from self-violent thoughts "There's no upside to violent self-thoughts. They don't help in any way," Susan says. "The more you allow yourself to be seen and take up space, the more you can conquer those voices that say you shouldn't." MENTIONED ON THE SHOW If I'm So Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight? by Brooke Castillo GUEST LINKS - SUSAN HYATT shyatt.com BARE daily BARE Podcast BARE by Susan Hyatt (the book) HOST LINKS - SLADE ROBERSON Slade's Books & Courses Get an intuitive reading with Slade Automatic Intuition BECOME A PATRON https://www.patreon.com/shiftyourspirits Edit your pledge on Patreon TRANSCRIPT Susan: I help people get what they want. Slade: What does that mean? Susan: That means, so when you say to people, I'm a life coach, still most of the population has no idea what that means. Theres an elderly woman on a plane that thought that meant I was a hospice worker. And so I look at it more as a conversation starter. So I'm not, if I just say, I'm a life coach, people's eyes kind of glaze over and then they are like, Oh, okay. If I say, I help opoeple get what they want, then they're like, WHAAAT? Say more! And then it's a conversation I'm having about, I'm a life coach and an author and I specialize in helping women stop dieting. Sometimes I just say, I help women stop dieting and you can see, I've written a couple funny stories because especially women are like, What?? You help them stop?? What would you do that? Because we're so immersed in diet culture. People think that dieting is being healthy and it's actually the opposite of that. Slade: Hnm.. How did that land in your lap, by the way? How did that become your thing? Susan: Well, it became my thing because I was 35 - 40 pounds over my natural weight when my first year as a life coach. And I knew that there were underlying issues about that. And I felt like, Hahaha it was my final frontier to conquer. It wasn't, but it certainly was one issue that I needed to deal with. And I hired a weight loss coach named Brook Castillo who's amazing, and she has this great book, If I'm So Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight? And what we really did was dive in to the emotional side of eating, which really rocked my world. And I lost that weight within about six months. And I was somebody who I joke, that I was, I really had a PhD in being a couch potato. I mean, I refused to exercise, I didn't want anyone telling me what I could or couldn't eat, and it really rocked my world. And I thought, If I can lose this extra weight, then I want to help other women do it. And so I became, I added weight loss coaching to my repertoire. And what I started to notice after coaching hundreds of women was, I was really spending the bulk of my time, because I could help anybody lose weight. It's really the inner deep work that makes weight loss sustainable, and it has nothing, I promise, to do with calories in, calories out, no pain no gain, all that stuff we're taught. It's really about, Is this woman cherishing herself, loving herself, giving herself enough daily pleasure so that she's not getting her entertainment from food, so that she's not getting her comfort from food, so that she's not numbing out. And I really started to notice that my clients, I could help them lose 50, 100 pounds, and then they would start complaining about other parts of their bodies. So yes, they had lost the weight, but now they were fixated on stretch marks, or, I still have a muffin top, or, Maybe I should get cosmetic surgery. And I started focusing on learning how to love your body as it is, right now. And THEN we'll do this other stuff. And BINGO! Everything changed. And so I developed this process called BARE, and it's really a process of bringing a woman back to herself. And figuring out that diet just keeps you on this deprivation cycle that you can't win. And the diet industry's actually counting on that. It's like, I think the latest statistic, it's a over 100 billion dollar industry and it's designed to keep you dissatisfied with how you look so that you keep spending money trying to become something else . Slade: Wow. Do you remember what the breaking point was for you? The shift that happened in your own mindset. I mean, now, working with the other clients, you were able to see it from outside and observe it in controlled environment. But when that happened to you, can you go back and remember what that mindset shift was? Susan: Yeah, I can remember. There was this moment, it was, I think maybe I had lost about 16 pounds of the 35 to 40, and we were going on spring break vacation and my daughter at the time was maybe 7. And I bought a new bikini and I was so excited in the store about having this bathing suit. And I remember my coach wanted me, she made a joke about a client of hers that she had asked to take a picture of herself in a swimsuit and send it to her. And when the photo arrived, it was a photo of her client flipping her off. And I started laughing and I said, "Don't ever assign that to me." And she was like, "Oh, really?? That's your homework then!" And so I have my daughter, I put my swimsuit on, I was actually feeling great. My little 8-year old Emily takes a photo of me and I felt fine the entire process. Until I looked at the photo on my big desktop screen. And all of a sudden, all of these really negative thoughts started flooding in. That were still there about, Oh, you don't look as good as you thought, and just really self-violent thoughts that almost all women have about their bodies. And I thought, You've got some real work to do. And I often think about, I was doing a webinar yesterday and I was talking about this. When you look at little kids. Say a film crew shows up at an elementary school, little kids are fighting, shoving each other out of the way to be seen on camera. This is an exciting thing, like, Look at me, I'm on TV! And at some point, we receive messages from either family of origin or culture at large that the way that you look is not acceptable. And by the time we reach our age, we're so full of these messages that we should look a certain way and we're not good enough. And in that moment when I looked at myself on screen, I was like, You have got to figure out how to be like that again. Be like, There I am! Look at me! And show up. And stop this hiding because you have some cellulite or whatever it might be. And that was really a moment, an AHA moment, a breaking point moment, a moment where I shifted and decided to devote myself to figuring that out. And I did! And I can tell you that people are always asking me, I don't understand how you get all that stuff done. And I can tell you, the reason I get so much stuff done, is because I'm no longer obsessing about food and body and how I look. Slade: Mmm... Tell me about, well, first I have to tell you. You probably know this about me but I like to personify the archetypes, I like to communicate with voices, a lot of the work I do with people is around policing the negative self talk. You know, it's really about learning how to, not only identify that, but one of the things that you pointed out was, these voices come from your family and society. They don't come from your higher self. They don't come from little kid you. You've got them from somewhere. You took them on, you download them, and you call them your own thoughts and they're really not. I noticed when I was looking at your website, before the interview, that you have an archetype called the Inner Mean Girl. Tell me about her. Is that who it is that's saying all these mean things? Susan: Yes! And you're absolutely right. These thoughts that we absorb and take on as our own, we were not born into this world with those kind of beliefs. We picked them up along the way and yeah, your inner mean girl is the one saying really horrible things to you about yourself that are untrue and the way that you know they're not true is because they make you feel horrible. And I think most women think that that is because they talk with their girlfriends, they talk with their mom, they talk with other people and everybody goes, "Oh yeah! Me too!" And so they think, Well that's normal and that's just the way it is. But it is prevalent in our culture but it's not what we were meant to experience, and so we have to clap back at that and tell the mean girl to have a seat and educate her on how you want to be treated. And you can flip the dialogue on that and practice talking back to her and saying kind things, because, listen, even if you want to argue with me and say, No, but she's right. I DO need to lose weight. I don't exercise. I am lazy. You've to to ask yourself different questions and tell yourself different things so that you change your behaviour, but there's no upside to self-violent thoughts, if you haven't noticed. There's no upside to it. Slade: Right. Susan: It doesn't help in any way. Slade: So you recently landed a big book deal. And I know this because we're friends on Facebook and you've been talking about the process and everything. Is this book deal, The BARE Message, is that what this is about? Tell me about the book. Susan: The book is called BARE, and we're still working on the subtitle. But thank you very much. Yes, I'm so excited to have a book deal for it. It's basically - Slade: Yay! Congrats! Susan: Thank you!!! I'm so stoked! Actually, just had a meeting with my publishing team yesterday, and they are on it. It's gonna be fire. I cannot wait for it to hit. Actually, pre-sale, the book is not going to be out until January of 2019, so there's a big process to getting these books out into the world, and I'm slightly impatient... Slade: Yeah... Susan: I would like it to be in your hands tomorrow, but pre-orders, actually, will start fairly soon, but the books will not ship until January. And yes, it's a book full of personal stories and client stories and it walks you through the BARE process. And the thing that I like about the BARE process is - so when you get the book, it's a story, and then there's a challenge. So it gets you taking action immediately. Side note, I have a podcast, the BARE podcast, which is going to drop on iTunes maybe by next week, so people, while they're waliting on the book, can check out the podcast. I'm dropping an entire season at once, so it can walk people through... there's 8 episodes in season 1. It walks people through the BARE process. You can do it on your own or you can decide to hire a coach to help you. Slade: Oh! Okay. You also have, for people who don't want to wait, who want to dive in and work with it, this platform, this work, this material exists in various forms. You have a community, an online community around it already, right? Susan: Yeah, yeah! It's called BARE Daily. The way that it's set up is, if someone joins the community, they get access, a username and password to an online classroom that has the BARE process in videos, so you can watch a video, there's homework assignments, there's tons of stuff in there. And then, in the private forum, I'm in there every day and so are my BARE coaches. So let's say you sign up and you start doing the BARE process, and you hit a wall or you have an issue, which you will. Coaches are there 24/7 to coach you through what's happening in the forum. So it's really a sweet set up. Slade: I have to ask you this question. I love to ask everyone this, and I'm trying to learn to ask it in a more postitive way, but, as someone who's spent some time now in the personal development world, what do you most hope to change about the conversation? Susan: So many things, Slade. So many things. Primarily, I want to disrupt diet culture. So the segment of the self-help industry that focuses on food, body and weight, I want to change the conversation from fear and deprivation to pleasure, love, positivity. So that's number one. People who are promoting unhealthy, unsustainable lifestyle changes, things that you wrap your body in, or starve yourself. All these kinds of things. I definitely want to, not flip the switch, flip the table on those folks. And then, also, the part of the self-help industry that is selling a bill of goods around, how do I say this? So I'm a big believer in spiritual grease plus elbow grease. Meaning, Yes, the Universe has your back. Yes, the Universe is conspiring in your favour. And whatever higher power you believe in, yes, your higher power, your higher self wants you to have everything that you crave. But you have to couple that faith in belief with action. And so, I get pretty worn out with people who are selling the idea that if you just believe it hard enough, it will happen. Slade: Mmm... yeah. Like the law of attraction method, I mean, not like specifically, but some of that stuff. Like thinking it will be true, feel your way into the reality, that kind of stuff? Susan: Yeah, because it's only part of the story. I have dear friends who are big law of attraction teachers, and I think people misunderstand it and they think, Well if I pay this money and I make a vision board, and I just believe that I'm going to own a Mercedes, and it's going to appear in my driveway... And tomorrow, I'm going to be dancing with Cardi B and Bruno Mars. It's gonna happen. Yes, if you do some things to put yourself in the path of Cardi B, if you do some work and go to the Mercedes dealership, you know? Slade: Right. Susan: It's just, I believe in magic, I believe in miracles, but I grew up Catholic. I'm a recovered Catholic. But my mother used to always say, God helps those who help themselves! And I guess that's really stuck with me, because I believe that to be true that, yes these miraculous things can happen, but you have to get out of your own way and do some work. Slade: I actually believe that too and I wasn't even indoctrinated to believe it. But that line, you know, God helps those who help themselves, really does work for me. You know, if somebody says it to me and I'm like, Amen! You know what I mean? Susan: Hallelujah! Slade: And I do write and teach law of attraction stuff in hopefully my corrected methods but, one of the things I like to introduce into the conversation is that, what you describe that the vision board thing is like working with one element as opposed to all the sacred elements. It's like legs on a stool kind of thing. You've got some other legs you've got to attach to this thing before it'll stand up. Susan: Yeah! And I totally, I mean I do vision board workshops online. It's not... I love all those things. They just have to be combined, like you said, with other practices. Slade: Well that's one of the reasons I wanted you to be on here. Because this is fewer hearts and flowers, we still love all the spiritual stuff, right? And the thing I love about you is you embody that very down to earth use of these things as tools. It's not an airy fairy thing for you. You love to show yourself doing it. You're on camera a lot. People can Facebook live right into your office on a daily basis. Susan: Yeah, it's true. Slade: And I love that about you too because you're never full hair and make up and wearing a glitter gown, except in a photo shoot, which you do. You get that out of your system. Susan: You gotta bring the big guns in sometimes, but yeah, on a daily basis I'm typically in my work out clothes with no make up. Slade: Well, you know what? That was very inspiring to me as I was developing this podcast and putting it out, because one of the pieces of advice that I got was, just don't worry about the intro music and the this and the that at the other thing. It's about you speaking, it's about the content, and it's about letting people hear you and the guests that you connect with. Just think of it as a big voice mail. Just take it down a notch. And that was very freeing for me. And you and I had a little interaction on Facebook probably about a year ago about that whole thing and you encouraged me. You were like, Yeah, people need to see you. Susan: Hmm? Slade: That probably will be my next step. Is to get to let my face be out there more. But that's one of those things... Susan: Dude! Why would you not let your face be seen??? You're a hottie! Slade: Because! Susan: McHotterson! You are depriving your audience of... You will be blessing the interwebs with your face. Slade: Alright. Susan: I need to come over there and smack you around. Slade: Well you'll be proud to know that I'm going to do my first Facebook live next week. For my - Susan: Next week?! How about this afternoon?? Slade: Well because it's a training for my Automatic Intuition peeps, so they get to be exposed to me first. But I was thinking about it and I was like, Yeah, you know what? I'm just going to sit on camera and... And I totally thought I 'm going to do this Susan Hyatt style. That you were my inspiration for that. Susan: That's awesome. And I have to say, that's part of the BARE process. Is to make you seen and be seen. So you have to, the more you allow yourself to be seen and take up space, the more you can conquer those voices that say that you shouldn't, that you don't look alright, like, whatever. Put yourselves out there, people. Slade: Well that was kind of my last big question for you, was about the whole make a scene concept. We're all rooting for you, living through you vicariously, as you're making your scenes and posting about that. And people just have to follow you online to get the full experience of what I'm talking about, because it unfolds, as you encounter things in your daily life and you share it. So, I used to, my friends in college actually used to call me Julie Sugarbaker, and I was notorious for telling some people off. You know what I mean? And I was really good at it. But I reached a point where I kind of had to dial back a lot of my anger. I had to go all the way back, strip back down and work my way back up again, and as we all know, this last year or so has been very trying when it comes to posting things online about your, the things that you're pissed about. I always look at you and I'm like, How is she coming out smelling like a rose every time? Because you are so good at doing something. Like, if I do what you do, I end up in a flame war. I mean... Susan: Oh! You mean with your following. People get mad. Slade: Yes! Like, you are so good at treading the line on making the scene and sharing the fact that you're pissed and putting it out there and calling stuff out without, somehow, ending up in tears at the end of the day and you wasted your whole day arguing with people online. So I'm wondering, What am I missing? Where do we draw the line there? How do you police that energy? Susan: So I have an unfair advantage, and my unfair advantage is that I have, for 19 years, parented a man named Ryan Hyatt. And Ryan Hyatt is some of the biggest most challenging energy that you could encounter. So I feel like I have been in boot camp with how to have boundaries, express feelings, call it like it is, in a way that doesn't set fire to everything. Sometimes I do want to set fire to everything, so there's number one. So sorry Slade, I'm going to have to ship Ryan off to you so that you can get some practice with that before, but... Secondly, I think I'm always, one of the things that I teach in writing, or when I'm training coaches on how to come up with content, how to come up with content for Facebook, how to come up with content for your blog, for your podcast, for whatever reason, a fellow Sugarbaker over here, I have always been able to come up with topics more readily, more easily, if I think about what has irritated me or pissed me off lately. And then what I do is say, Okay, I'm really irritated about whatever, these people who are selling diets. Then I try to come up, before I open my mouth, I try to come up with the life coachy solution to it, so that it's not just a rant. That I'm offering my displeasure, and I'm all, Let me tell you something, but I couch it in, Well here's what you could do for yourself if you're experiencing this too. And so I think that's what keeps it from just being something that would ruin someone's day. My day, your day, whatever. Slade: I like it. Susan: Yeah. So there's a little bit... Then also, you know it, I do get hate mail, I do get people who disagree and who will post things, but I shut it down pretty quickly. I don't let them have a platform on my platform. I'm open minded, so if they're talking about something respectfully and they just disagree, that's fine. But if they're trying to set fire to my Facebook thread, then they're immediately blocked. That's it. You don't get to come over on my page and do that. Sorry. Slade: You know what? I actually realized as you were saying this that, I teach this in terms of, journalling. I used to keep diaries a lot and that's a big tool for me and at some point I realized, it was nothing but whining. And when I did Morning Pages for the first time, the Julia Cameron style, I remember being like, You know what? I'm not just going to bitch every morning for 15 minutes. How's that a way to start the day? So I made a rule with myself that the only way that I can mention something that was wrong in my diary is if I put a potential solution there. Or, I am broke, here's what I'm going to do about it, kind of thing. And I teach that to people a lot. You can't, it's one thing to, like you said, it's one thing to rant, and it's one thing to vent, but I think even venting in your private space, without having constructive context, is damaging. You're just letting the inner mean girl have a dance party in your head. Susan: Right. Slade: So, what's next for you? You've got this big book coming out but it's going to take awhile. So what are you going to do in the meantime? Susan: So what I'm doing in the meantime is, I'm trying to build my BARE membership community up and I am spending a lot of time inside there. We have cooking classes and exercise classes... Just all kinds of great content that happens privately in there. I'll be spending most of my time in there. I'm also doing some international retreats this year. One to Italy that's already sold out and one to England and maybe one to Paris. That's one of my favorite cities. And then I'm training a bunch of BARE coaches, so coaches in the BARE methodology, so that they can spread this far and wide, and just on my regular! Slade: It must be fun to be you. Susan: It IS fun to be me! And I tell you, I remind myself of that every morning when my inner mean girl wants to whine about how much she has to do. I slap her around and tell her she is so lucky, that she's to stay in the miracle and be grateful for this practice and this business and this life. Slade: Mmm... Susan, I truly do love your energy. I could talk to you all day long, and one of the reasons why I had to get you on my show is because you'll probably be too famous next year to be on my show. Susan: Stop it! Never too famous for you. Slade: Anyway, it was fantastic to get to capture a chat with you and introduce you to some of my peeps who may not have heard of you before. So tell everyone where where they can go to find you online. Susan: Thank you so much, by the way. This was a delight. My website URL, is SHyatt.com. And then you can follow me on Instragram @SusanHyatt, or on also Facebook, same handle. Thank you for coming on the show Susan. Susan: Thank you! Thanks again for listening to the Shift Your Spirits podcast. For show notes, links, and all the past episodes please visit www.shiftyourspirits.com You can subscribe in iTunes or Stitcher or whatever app you use to access podcasts. If you’d like to get an intuitive reading with me or download a free ebook and meditation to help you connect with your guides please go to https://sladeroberson.com/ and if you’re interested in my professional intuitive training program, you can start the course for free by downloading the Attunement at https://automaticintuition.com/

"So I'm back up in the game (Hustling strong) Running things to keep my swing (All night long) Letting all the people know That I'm back to run the show"   The lyrics of Mark Morrison have never sounded sweeter.   Welcome in to the show that is ecstatic to have Zach LaVine back. We discuss his 1st game in action and his future with According 2 Sources host Christian. We also talk tanking, Niko trades and The Last Jedi. Also Dave asks a question he's been holding in for a while. Find out the guys' reaction to it and more. Enjoy the ride good people. BAWL!

Sandbrook: References count for me, references that I trust. Because in that hour interview or whatnot, you can get some sense but you can't be 100%. You're not always a 100% knowing that individual, what their work ethic is, how they really handle pressure, what are their true innate problem solving abilities? And I'm not a huge fan of canned tests. I think that leaves out another dimension and I think it demeans the individual. That I'm gonna look at all your test results from all these different prognostics and I'm gonna come up with who I think you are. So, I will tell you, what counts the most for me is somebody that I trust, maybe in another company that I've worked with before, to give me an honest opinion of the pluses and minuses of that individual. That outside reference is so critical to me, and it won't come off of that individual's list of references. It'll come off my own personal references that I'll find somebody that knows that individual.

Ep 103: Cordial Curiosity | Frank | I Have No Other Proof for God | Street Epistemology Los Angeles, CA 23 November 2016 Twitter: http://twitter.com/cordialcurious Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cordial_cur Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/civildiscour Music provided by Chet Hovatter. Beliefs, Claims & Opinions: 00:49 | God is much more powerful than the God(s) of religion. 03:05 | I don't believe in the concept of religion due to their contradictory nature. 04:12 | Religion doesn't make sense. The Adam and Eve story, for example, brings a lot of questions to mind. 06:02 | The Bible stories are unreliable because they were written so long after the original events. 09:51 | I'm a child of belief. 11:05 | You can believe in something that may be true for you, but in reality, may not be true. 14:48 | God is beautiful. I have to be good because god gave me a chance to be here. Regardless of religion. 15:38 | Someone can be good without a god. Confidence Level: 02:47 | I believe in my heart. It's my belief. 12:44 | I'm not sure it's true. Reasons for Belief: 01:05 | Scientists are continuously revealing evidence of planets like ours, proving the power of god. 07:24 | Beautiful things are evidence of god. I attribute whatever I see as beautiful to god and what's ugly to man. 08:33 | Everything science reveals about how the world works is evidence of the god. 09:13 | It's just a belief. There's only two ways the world came to be. Science's "doctrine" says that it came to be by accident. I believe it came to be by a creator. 10:13 | I have no proof. 10:20 | I like logic. Anything that makes sense to me, I'll accept. Anything that doesn't, I won't accept. 11:52 | My proof is the beauty of creation. 12:20 | I do not want to accept the scientific explanation of how the world came to be. I want to believe god did it. 13:48 | God's existence can be justified because I have life. 14:10 | I attributes all of these (positive) things in life to god. That I'm not an accident. 16:20 | I was brainwashed as a child. It's difficult to deny. 16:52 | I cannot deny it. Questions: 07:18 | Is there any reliable way to know if the god you believe in is true? 09:04 | Is there anything you could find out to change your confidence? 10:16 | Do you want to believe in things that are true? 10:52 | Is just believing something is true a reliable way to know if it's true? 12:07 | Is it possible this world could have been created without a god? 12:25 | Does the preference one has for a belief matter about the truth of it? 13:25 | Just because something makes sense to you, does that make it true? 13:38 | Is there any way to be more justified in the belief? 14:21 | How do you know your attributions are correct? 14:43 | What's this belief doing for you? 15:32 | Is there any way to be good without a god? 16:08 | If it's possible to be good without a god, why believe? __ Twitter: http://twitter.com/cordialcurious Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cordial_cur Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/civildiscour

How Good Is Your About Page? The About Page or About Me page on your website is arguably the most important page on your site. And yet, it's so often neglected when people create a website in order to concentrate more on the "meat pages" of the site. Pages like their portfolio, or the services they offer. The About Page is often just an afterthought. You know you need one, so you whip one up quickly and move on. But if you look at the analytics for your site you will probably see that your About Page is one of your most visited pages. Chances are you have a link to your About Page in your menu bar, and when someone lands on your site, regardless of the page they land on, they will probably click on that link to learn more about you. If you don't have a well-crafted About Page you could be turning visitors off and leaving potential business on the table. What makes a great About Page? People often fail in their About Page because frankly, they're talking about themselves. You would think that's what an About Page is for. But in truth, visitors really visit an About Page not to learn who a person or company is, but to find out why they should care. What's in it for them? they're there to determine if they should be interested in you and to figure out if you can help them. If not then why bother looking at the rest of the website. How do you make a great About Page? How long should an About Page be? There is no right answer to this. The length of your About Page should be long enough to get your message across and nothing else. Every business's About Page will be different so it's imperative that you test different things to see what works for you. You've heard about A/B testing? The About Page is a great candidate for such testing. Parts of a great About Page. Part 1: Your About Page should have a hook. Something that immediately grabs the attention of visitors and lets them know they've found the right person or business for them. Here's an example of a good hook. "Welcome to my site. Are you wondering how to promote your business? Do you have a great idea but don't know how to present it to the world? Are you tired of your current brand and want something more exciting? If you're asking yourself any of these questions, then you've come to the right place. The hook gets into the head of your potential clients. The hook tells them that you know what they need help with and that you have the solution to their problem. Trust me, if they think you have the solution to their problem, they'll be begging to work with you. It's a very basic concept but it's super effective. Figure out what questions your potential clients have and list the most popular ones. How do you figure this out? By asking your clients questions. Over time you will learn what common questions come up, what problems they're seeking help with, and you'll be able to address them here on your About Page. If you open with a great hook, your visitors will want to keep reading. Part 2: Share the benefits people get by working with you. Not the services you offer, but the benefits they get. What will they get if they decide to work with you? An example can be something like this. "Allow me to use my vast skills and experience as a graphic designer to create something amazing, something that is truly unique to you. I have a knack for capturing the personality of a company and creating designs that will reflect not only who you are, but designs that lets you connect with your target market on a personal level. In other words, I create designs you can be proud of. You see? This second part kind of describes you a bit, but in a way that benefits the viewer. Part 3: Share social proof. This is a great place to display an image of yourself so your clients have a face to associate you with. Share your accomplishments, not to gloat, but to prove you're the right person for the job. In my case, this is where I would mention being in the design industry since 1989. That I've helped brand 100s of successful companies. Where I've had my designs featured and what awards I've won. A little name dropping also adds social proof as to why someone should hire you so list any well A little name dropping also adds social proof for why someone should hire you. List any well well-known companies you've worked with. They may be local, national or global companies. If you think it will help, mention them here. Another great way to share social proof is to include one or two testimonials from clients praising your skills and partnership with them. People visit your About Page to learn about you. What better way to learn, than by hearing what others have to say about working with you? Be cautious in part 3. Don't include too much in this section or you might come off as too overbearing and smug. Don't talk about awards you won 10 years ago. They have no meaning to today. You only want to share enough to assure people that you are capable of helping them. Part 4: This is where you finally get to talk about yourself. You could mention where you went to school and how you got into the business. Limit it to just a couple of paragraphs. Enough for people to get to know you a bit better. Imagine you are meeting someone face to face for the first time and they ask you why you became a designer. Part 4 of your About Page is the answer you would give them. In my case I would tell them I had no intention of becoming a graphic designer. I only enrolled in the course as a stepping stone to something else I wanted to take in university. But once I started, I fell in love with graphic design and immersed myself fully in the program, graduating at the top of my class. If you want, you can include a few fun facts here about yourself in this section. Hobbies, likes & dislikes, family information you don't mind sharing. Stay away from controversial subjects like religion and politics. Myself I would mention my love of podcasting. That I'm a dog owner. I might also mention how I'm not a coffee drinker, which goes against the typical stereotype of the graphic designer. Use this section to really show off your personality. Remember, your About Page can also weed out people who wouldn't work well with you. If they don't care for your personality, chances are you wouldn't work well together. Part 5: This is probably the most important section and yet it's also the most overlooked. Include a direct link for visitors to contact you. A contact form works best, but any method that allows them to contact you is imperative. Include some sort of call to action letting them know you're anxious to hear from them. They just spent the time learning who you are and how you can help them, so make it easy for them to get a hold of you to start a working relationship. There you have it. A great About Page. Will following these steps guarantee new clients? Of course not. But every bit helps. And there's no reason your About Page shouldn't be given as much, if not more, attention than the other pages on your website. Don't leave potential business on the table because you have a weak About Page. What does your About Page look like? Leave a comment for this episode telling me your formula for a great About Page and I'll make sure to link back to it. Questions of the Week This week's question came from Michael. He asked... I'm a staff designer at an established agency. The leadership here does allow us to take side (for lack of a better word) freelancing jobs to help us grow our skills and creativity. As long as it's not a direct conflict of interest with the company. I'm struggling to gain traction in finding work. I have good set of personal clients that I work with already but nothing to add any substantial amount to mine and my wife's income. Just odd jobs now and then when my skills are needed. What is your method to finding new work/clients? Which ones have you found most effective and which methods would you recommend I stay away from. To hear how I answered Michael's question you'll have to listen to the podcast. I did however share this link with him. 10 Proven Ways To Attract Design Clients I would love to answer your question on a future episode of the podcast. Submit your question by visiting the feedback page. Resource of the week Who Stole My Images FaceBook Group This is not a resource I'm familiar with myself but when I heard about it I thought it would be great for my audience. It was shared by Molly in the Resourceful Designer FaceBook Group. Who Stole My Images is a group that helps creative people when their intellectual property has been stolen for illicit gains. If you sell your designs anywhere on the internet there's a good chance that someone copied your artwork and is selling it as their own. It's not always easy to stop these people and that's where this FaceBook group comes in. The members have experience and are willing to share their tips and tricks to help you target the thieves. If you find yourself in such a situation simply ask to join the group. Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe on iTunesSubscribe on StitcherSubscribe on AndroidSubscribe on Google Play Music Contact me Send me feedback Follow me on Twitter and Facebook I want to help you. Running a graphic design or web design business all by yourself isn't easy. If there are any struggles you face running your design business please reach out to me. I'll do my best to help you by addressing your issues in a future blog post or podcast episode here at Resourceful Designer. You can reach me at feedback@resourcefuldesigner.com

Download MP3 ８月の５週間は、恒例の「超濃縮！やさしい英語会話」です。この８年間に配信した259本の「やさしい英語会話」よりエピソードを厳選し、毎回４本分を濃縮してお届けします。ナチュラルスピードの会話をスクリプトとともにお楽しみください。 最近社会現象になったあのゲームなど、ゲームは世代を問わず人を夢中にさせるもの。今回は"Life Is a Game"をテーマに、パーティでのゲームや言葉のゲームも含めた、様々なゲームの会話を４本選びました。 Image credit: ぱくたそ. （初級〜中級）Drinking Games M: Chizuko! Do you want to go drinking tonight? W: Not really. Matt, you know I hate drinking. M: Come on. Alex is throwing a huge party. I bet lots of guys will come. W: Hmm. Nah. I think I'll pass on tonight. I don't really like drinking. And I hate drunk guys. M: Come on. I promise it'll be fun. If you don't have fun, you never have to come out again. There will be tons of games. W: Hmm. Games? What kind of games? Like Playstation games? M: Not exactly. W: Like Truth or Dare? Or I never? M: No way! Although those would be pretty fun, now that you mention it. There'll be drinking games. You know, like beer pong and flip cup. W: What? What are those? I've never played them before. M: What? I can't believe you never played those games. Every college student in America knows those games. W: Wait, I'm Japanese. I don't count. M: Still, you've been here for four months. W: Fine, tell me how to play. M: OK. Let's see. In beer pong, you try to throw ping pong balls into the other teams' cups. The losing team drinks. W: Yeah. That actually sounds pretty fun if I don't have to drink. OK, I'll go tonight if you're my partner and you drink all of the beers for me. M: No. You have to drink half of the beers. W: Fine. I'll just stay home. M: Fine, I'll drink all of your beers. Man, I'm going to get drunk tonight. W: What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying I'm going to make us lose? M: Maybe. But it's OK. You just have to deal with me after. W: Great. Just don't puke on me or try hitting on me. M: Sorry in advance. Sometimes, I just can't help myself. W: Maybe, I'll just stay home tonight. (Written by Kyle Kumashiro) How Do You Make a Game? M: Hey, Nobuko, how do you make a game? W: You mean a video game, I presume? Um, that's rather difficult. As difficult as creating a movie, maybe even more! Games contain images, sounds, plot, special effects. They also have interactivity. As well as goals, challenges, rewards… M: Whoa-whoa, cut the lecture. Can't you explain simpler? And a little closer to the actual thing? W: I see: no appreciation for the theoretical part? OK, well, basically a game is a compiled computer code together with images, sounds, and other resources it makes use of. M: Uh-huh, so I have to know how to write code? W: I see. No appreciation for the noble art of a software engineer! You don't have to know how to program. There are many game-creating software tools, such as Sploder and Stencyl. Such software already contains all the necessary game components - you only need to put it together in the way you want, like in a construction set. Of course, simplicity comes with a price of fewer possibilities. M: Oh, bummer. World of Warcraft and such are out of the question? W: Most definitely! In general, you won't be able to create anything complex or truly original unless you learn how to code. There are some exceptions to this rule, of course… Wait, actually I don't know any. M: It matters not! I will make my own game, which will be just like Super Mario, but with a cat instead of a plumber. It'll be a huge success. And being a famous game developer, I'll get money, fame, free lunches... you name it! W: I see. A couch potato with tacky dreams, and little respect for other people's intellectual property? Well, good luck! You'll need it. Ciao! M: I wonder why she would get so angry and call me names? It matters not! My fortune is just around the corner. Hey, wait! Isn't it time for my favourite TV drama? I guess I can leave game development for later! (Written by Dmitry Mamchur) Playing the "Would You Rather…" Game M: Hey, I have a good idea. Let's play the ‘Would you rather…” game! W: What's that? M: It's a game where I give you two really BAD situations, and you have to choose which one you'd prefer. W: Ah… That sounds like a horrible game. M: That's sort of the point, though! Alright, I'll start! Hmm… let me think… would you rather live in Antarctica or Death Valley? W: Oh, both are bad. OK… I'll choose Antarctica. At least I could build myself an igloo! Haha… OK. It's my turn now. Um… would you rather be trapped underground, or endlessly float through space? M: Um… I'm claustrophobic, so I choose ‘Endlessly floating through space'. W: I'd probably choose the same. Both are pretty crappy situations, though. M: I'd say! Alright… Would you rather… have a condition that made you sweat 10 times more than usual, or have really bad breath that was incurable? W: Bad breath! Most definitely bad breath! Can I use mints constantly? M: Mints don't work. It's an incurable condition, remember? W: Nooo! Alright, but I'm still sticking with bad breath. I'll just wear a mask for the rest of my life and will be known as the ‘masked beauty'. M: Haaaahhh, you DON'T need to wear a mask to be beautiful. W: Oh, how flattering… M: (laughs) OK, last one! Would you rather… go on a date with me, or go on a date with an old hairy lumberjack? W: Smooth… Um, I'll go with the old hairy lumberjack. M: Wow, what a lucky guy! W: Tomorrow at 7 pm. I'll be waiting outside my apartment. M: Hey, what are you trying to say? That I'm old and hairy? Anyway, I'm looking forward to it! (Written by Lauren Johnson) Are Game Arcades a Waste of Money? W: Hey Greg! What're you doing here? M: Eh? Oh hey Sarah. I just came here to try to win something for my girlfriend from one of these claw machine things. W: You mean UFO Catchers? You know those things are a huge rip-off, right? You really shouldn't be wasting your money on them. M: Ha ha. Yeah, I know they're a rip off, but I really need to win this figurine for my girlfriend! She told me she'd break up with me unless I got it for her for her birthday. W: Geez, why don't you just BUY the figure online if you need it so badly? You're gonna spend more money on this stupid machine than you would actually just buying it online. M: Trust me, I know that. It's just that I can't find this exact one online anywhere. It's a limited edition, and she's gotta have it. W: You know Greg, if I didn't know any better, I'd say your girlfriend is taking advantage of you. M: (Sigh) That may be true, but if I blow it with her, I may be alone for the rest of my life! (Greg begins shaking the machine vigorously) W: You know Greg, there's plenty of other girls out there who would date a guy like you. M: Really? Like who? (Continues to shake the machine as hard as he can) W: (blushes) Um, someone like-- (Sarah gets cut off as an alarm starts sounding from the machine.) Arcade Employee: Hey you! No shaking the machines! Get out of here! M: Ah! All I wanted was to win this stupid figurine! W: (sighs) (The two of them are ushered out of the arcade by a staff member.)　　　 (Written by David Shaner)

Download MP3 ８月の５週間は、恒例の「超濃縮！やさしい英語会話」です。この８年間に配信した259本の「やさしい英語会話」よりエピソードを厳選し、毎回４本分を濃縮してお届けします。ナチュラルスピードの会話をスクリプトとともにお楽しみください。 最近社会現象になったあのゲームなど、ゲームは世代を問わず人を夢中にさせるもの。今回は"Life Is a Game"をテーマに、パーティでのゲームや言葉のゲームも含めた、様々なゲームの会話を４本選びました。 Image credit: ぱくたそ. （初級〜中級）Drinking Games M: Chizuko! Do you want to go drinking tonight? W: Not really. Matt, you know I hate drinking. M: Come on. Alex is throwing a huge party. I bet lots of guys will come. W: Hmm. Nah. I think I'll pass on tonight. I don't really like drinking. And I hate drunk guys. M: Come on. I promise it'll be fun. If you don't have fun, you never have to come out again. There will be tons of games. W: Hmm. Games? What kind of games? Like Playstation games? M: Not exactly. W: Like Truth or Dare? Or I never? M: No way! Although those would be pretty fun, now that you mention it. There'll be drinking games. You know, like beer pong and flip cup. W: What? What are those? I've never played them before. M: What? I can't believe you never played those games. Every college student in America knows those games. W: Wait, I'm Japanese. I don't count. M: Still, you've been here for four months. W: Fine, tell me how to play. M: OK. Let's see. In beer pong, you try to throw ping pong balls into the other teams' cups. The losing team drinks. W: Yeah. That actually sounds pretty fun if I don't have to drink. OK, I'll go tonight if you're my partner and you drink all of the beers for me. M: No. You have to drink half of the beers. W: Fine. I'll just stay home. M: Fine, I'll drink all of your beers. Man, I'm going to get drunk tonight. W: What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying I'm going to make us lose? M: Maybe. But it's OK. You just have to deal with me after. W: Great. Just don't puke on me or try hitting on me. M: Sorry in advance. Sometimes, I just can't help myself. W: Maybe, I'll just stay home tonight. (Written by Kyle Kumashiro) How Do You Make a Game? M: Hey, Nobuko, how do you make a game? W: You mean a video game, I presume? Um, that's rather difficult. As difficult as creating a movie, maybe even more! Games contain images, sounds, plot, special effects. They also have interactivity. As well as goals, challenges, rewards… M: Whoa-whoa, cut the lecture. Can't you explain simpler? And a little closer to the actual thing? W: I see: no appreciation for the theoretical part? OK, well, basically a game is a compiled computer code together with images, sounds, and other resources it makes use of. M: Uh-huh, so I have to know how to write code? W: I see. No appreciation for the noble art of a software engineer! You don't have to know how to program. There are many game-creating software tools, such as Sploder and Stencyl. Such software already contains all the necessary game components - you only need to put it together in the way you want, like in a construction set. Of course, simplicity comes with a price of fewer possibilities. M: Oh, bummer. World of Warcraft and such are out of the question? W: Most definitely! In general, you won't be able to create anything complex or truly original unless you learn how to code. There are some exceptions to this rule, of course… Wait, actually I don't know any. M: It matters not! I will make my own game, which will be just like Super Mario, but with a cat instead of a plumber. It'll be a huge success. And being a famous game developer, I'll get money, fame, free lunches... you name it! W: I see. A couch potato with tacky dreams, and little respect for other people's intellectual property? Well, good luck! You'll need it. Ciao! M: I wonder why she would get so angry and call me names? It matters not! My fortune is just around the corner. Hey, wait! Isn't it time for my favourite TV drama? I guess I can leave game development for later! (Written by Dmitry Mamchur) Playing the "Would You Rather…" Game M: Hey, I have a good idea. Let's play the ‘Would you rather…” game! W: What's that? M: It's a game where I give you two really BAD situations, and you have to choose which one you'd prefer. W: Ah… That sounds like a horrible game. M: That's sort of the point, though! Alright, I'll start! Hmm… let me think… would you rather live in Antarctica or Death Valley? W: Oh, both are bad. OK… I'll choose Antarctica. At least I could build myself an igloo! Haha… OK. It's my turn now. Um… would you rather be trapped underground, or endlessly float through space? M: Um… I'm claustrophobic, so I choose ‘Endlessly floating through space'. W: I'd probably choose the same. Both are pretty crappy situations, though. M: I'd say! Alright… Would you rather… have a condition that made you sweat 10 times more than usual, or have really bad breath that was incurable? W: Bad breath! Most definitely bad breath! Can I use mints constantly? M: Mints don't work. It's an incurable condition, remember? W: Nooo! Alright, but I'm still sticking with bad breath. I'll just wear a mask for the rest of my life and will be known as the ‘masked beauty'. M: Haaaahhh, you DON'T need to wear a mask to be beautiful. W: Oh, how flattering… M: (laughs) OK, last one! Would you rather… go on a date with me, or go on a date with an old hairy lumberjack? W: Smooth… Um, I'll go with the old hairy lumberjack. M: Wow, what a lucky guy! W: Tomorrow at 7 pm. I'll be waiting outside my apartment. M: Hey, what are you trying to say? That I'm old and hairy? Anyway, I'm looking forward to it! (Written by Lauren Johnson) Are Game Arcades a Waste of Money? W: Hey Greg! What're you doing here? M: Eh? Oh hey Sarah. I just came here to try to win something for my girlfriend from one of these claw machine things. W: You mean UFO Catchers? You know those things are a huge rip-off, right? You really shouldn't be wasting your money on them. M: Ha ha. Yeah, I know they're a rip off, but I really need to win this figurine for my girlfriend! She told me she'd break up with me unless I got it for her for her birthday. W: Geez, why don't you just BUY the figure online if you need it so badly? You're gonna spend more money on this stupid machine than you would actually just buying it online. M: Trust me, I know that. It's just that I can't find this exact one online anywhere. It's a limited edition, and she's gotta have it. W: You know Greg, if I didn't know any better, I'd say your girlfriend is taking advantage of you. M: (Sigh) That may be true, but if I blow it with her, I may be alone for the rest of my life! (Greg begins shaking the machine vigorously) W: You know Greg, there's plenty of other girls out there who would date a guy like you. M: Really? Like who? (Continues to shake the machine as hard as he can) W: (blushes) Um, someone like-- (Sarah gets cut off as an alarm starts sounding from the machine.) Arcade Employee: Hey you! No shaking the machines! Get out of here! M: Ah! All I wanted was to win this stupid figurine! W: (sighs) (The two of them are ushered out of the arcade by a staff member.)　　　 (Written by David Shaner)

Your life is like a wheel. There are so many different components that come together to create your own personal "circle of life" (cue the Lion King Music!). These components are: Your health - your family and relationships - your career/work or mission - your finances - and your spiritual health and contribution. Life is not complete without the growth and development in all of these areas. The problem is, we are usually very off balance in one or the other based on where we are in our life. Your body might be banging, but your finances are in the toilet. You might have awesome relationships, but you're simultaneously struggling in your career. So, you see, your "circle of life" (your wheel) is usually pretty jagged and bumpy because of some parts being up and some parts being down... and this is what leads to a very bumpy ride in life. The truth is, life will have it's ups and downs, but there can be a lot more smooth sailing if you're able to grow gracefully and consistently in all areas. The question really is: How do you do it? And today, I have the perfect person to show you exactly how it's done. Many years ago I was sitting with my then girlfriend (now my wife... yep, I scored!) and we were watching this film that my amazing mother-in-law said we HAVE to watch... I honestly wasn't very interested in watching it... I had so much going on with trying to figure out how to structure my client's programs and even how I was going to pay my rent. We clicked play, and something unexpected happened. A man named Bob Proctor came on the screen with this confidence, grace, and sense of knowing that I'd never experienced before. I hung on his every word, and whatever this man had figured out, I wanted to know it too! The film broke down the hidden, but extremely real world of quantum mechanics. Not in a, "you'd better put on your pocket protector way", but in a real world "I get this" way that made me realize something profound. I realized in that moment what I had always known intuitively my entire life... That I matter. That I'm special. That I'm here to share the unique gifts that I have. That I am influencing the world around me (for the good and the not-so-good) based on the predominant thoughts that I'm carrying around in my mind. Bob told me that day, "If you can see it in your mind, you can hold it in your hand." The science in the film really spoke to my man-brain. The message in the film really spoke to my heart. Today I'm beyond honored to say that I have Bob Proctor on my show to be able to share him with you. In my mind him connecting with me is a result of hard work and effort. In my heart him connecting with me is a result of how powerful we all our to attract into our life the people, things, and resources we need to make the life we want a reality. Buckle in tight, because this is powerful! In this episode you'll discover: Why your results in life depend on your "inner game". What book transformed Bob's life over 50 years ago that he still reads today. Why you can never truly enjoy something without sharing it. How financial health impacts your health overall. How contribution can radically improve your finances (it worked for me too!) The most important and useful skill that's not being taught in schools today. Why kids are able to learn so much more than they are often given credit for. Why you need to get straight A's WAY after your schooling days are over. What acceptance REALLY means and why it's so powerful in your life. Why listening is a critical skill for success (and why many of us are doing it wrong!) How every-single-person is a leader in one way or another. Why improving your leadership capacity is so important. Whether or not someone is a "producer" or an "almost". How your self-image is actually formed. What you must do to transform your self-image. Why you should NEVER try to lose weight again (this is powerful!) What your #1 driving force really is (whether you realize it or not!) Why most people are programmed NOT to have longevity and what you can do to change that. Items mentioned in this episode include: Onnit.com/Model 

今回から「やさしい英語会話」は新しい学生アシスタント、Keiさんとともにお届けします。明るく元気な大学１年生で、先週までのAkariさんと同様に、楽しく番組を進行していきます。ところでKeiさんの高校時代の留学先は、Joeと接点があるようですね…。 今回お届けするのは"Would You Rather..?" Gameのお話。どちらも微妙な二つの選択肢の中から、究極の選択を行うゲームです。英語のスピーキングを楽しく練習できるゲームなので、ぜひ試してみましょう。会話の中では、どんな質問が登場するのでしょうか…？ Image credit: (Antarctica) Clayoquot via Wikipedia. CC BY-SA 3.0. (Death Valley) Complex01 via Wikipedia. CC BY-SA 3.0. *Click here to download MP3* （初級〜中級） *** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） That's sort of the point. = そこがこのゲームのキモのようなものさ。 ※That's the point.（そこがポイントだ）とsort of 〜（どちらかといえば〜的な。=kind of）を組み合わせた表現 〜, though. まあ〜なんだけどね。 ※文末に"〜, though."をつけることで、柔らかい逆説表現になる。日本人があまり発想しない英語表現なので、ぜひ使ってみよう。 Death Valley 「死の谷」（カリフォルニア州の観光地。非常に暑く、乾燥した場所として知られる） an igloo （イヌイットの作る）かまくら claustrophobic 閉所恐怖の crappy = terrible ※若者言葉なので使用には注意。 I'd say. = I agree. bad breath 口臭 mint ミント not work 効かない to stick with 〜 〜にこだわる wear a mask マスクをする how flattering... お世辞が上手ね。 ※名詞形の「お世辞」はflattery。Flattery will get you nowhere.で「おだてたって何も出ないよ」 hairy 毛むくじゃらの a lumberjack 木こり Smooth うまいわね。 *** Script *** Playing the "Would You Rather…" Game M: Hey, I have a good idea. Let's play the ‘Would you rather…” game! W: What's that? M: It's a game where I give you two really BAD situations, and you have to choose which one you'd prefer. W: Ah… That sounds like a horrible game. M: That's sort of the point, though! Alright, I'll start! Hmm… let me think… would you rather live in Antarctica or Death Valley? W: Oh, both are bad. OK… I'll choose Antarctica. At least I could build myself an igloo! Haha… OK. It's my turn now. Um… would you rather be trapped underground, or endlessly float through space? M: Um… I'm claustrophobic, so I choose ‘Endlessly floating through space'. W: I'd probably choose the same. Both are pretty crappy situations, though. M: I'd say! Alright… Would you rather… have a condition that made you sweat 10 times more than usual, or have really bad breath that was incurable? W: Bad breath! Most definitely bad breath! Can I use mints constantly? M: Mints don't work. It's an incurable condition, remember? W: Nooo! Alright, but I'm still sticking with bad breath. I'll just wear a mask for the rest of my life and will be known as the ‘masked beauty'. M: Haaaahhh, you DON'T need to wear a mask to be beautiful. W: Oh, how flattering… M: (laughs) OK, last one! Would you rather… go on a date with me, or go on a date with an old hairy lumberjack? W: Smooth… Um, I'll go with the old hairy lumberjack. M: Wow, what a lucky guy! W: Tomorrow at 7 pm. I'll be waiting outside my apartment. M: Hey, what are you trying to say? That I'm old and hairy? Anyway, I'm looking forward to it!    (Written by Lauren Johnson)

今回から「やさしい英語会話」は新しい学生アシスタント、Keiさんとともにお届けします。明るく元気な大学１年生で、先週までのAkariさんと同様に、楽しく番組を進行していきます。ところでKeiさんの高校時代の留学先は、Joeと接点があるようですね…。 今回お届けするのは"Would You Rather..?" Gameのお話。どちらも微妙な二つの選択肢の中から、究極の選択を行うゲームです。英語のスピーキングを楽しく練習できるゲームなので、ぜひ試してみましょう。会話の中では、どんな質問が登場するのでしょうか…？ Image credit: (Antarctica) Clayoquot via Wikipedia. CC BY-SA 3.0. (Death Valley) Complex01 via Wikipedia. CC BY-SA 3.0. *Click here to download MP3* （初級〜中級） *** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） That's sort of the point. = そこがこのゲームのキモのようなものさ。 ※That's the point.（そこがポイントだ）とsort of 〜（どちらかといえば〜的な。=kind of）を組み合わせた表現 〜, though. まあ〜なんだけどね。 ※文末に"〜, though."をつけることで、柔らかい逆説表現になる。日本人があまり発想しない英語表現なので、ぜひ使ってみよう。 Death Valley 「死の谷」（カリフォルニア州の観光地。非常に暑く、乾燥した場所として知られる） an igloo （イヌイットの作る）かまくら claustrophobic 閉所恐怖の crappy = terrible ※若者言葉なので使用には注意。 I'd say. = I agree. bad breath 口臭 mint ミント not work 効かない to stick with 〜 〜にこだわる wear a mask マスクをする how flattering... お世辞が上手ね。 ※名詞形の「お世辞」はflattery。Flattery will get you nowhere.で「おだてたって何も出ないよ」 hairy 毛むくじゃらの a lumberjack 木こり Smooth うまいわね。 *** Script *** Playing the "Would You Rather…" Game M: Hey, I have a good idea. Let's play the ‘Would you rather…” game! W: What's that? M: It's a game where I give you two really BAD situations, and you have to choose which one you'd prefer. W: Ah… That sounds like a horrible game. M: That's sort of the point, though! Alright, I'll start! Hmm… let me think… would you rather live in Antarctica or Death Valley? W: Oh, both are bad. OK… I'll choose Antarctica. At least I could build myself an igloo! Haha… OK. It's my turn now. Um… would you rather be trapped underground, or endlessly float through space? M: Um… I'm claustrophobic, so I choose ‘Endlessly floating through space'. W: I'd probably choose the same. Both are pretty crappy situations, though. M: I'd say! Alright… Would you rather… have a condition that made you sweat 10 times more than usual, or have really bad breath that was incurable? W: Bad breath! Most definitely bad breath! Can I use mints constantly? M: Mints don't work. It's an incurable condition, remember? W: Nooo! Alright, but I'm still sticking with bad breath. I'll just wear a mask for the rest of my life and will be known as the ‘masked beauty'. M: Haaaahhh, you DON'T need to wear a mask to be beautiful. W: Oh, how flattering… M: (laughs) OK, last one! Would you rather… go on a date with me, or go on a date with an old hairy lumberjack? W: Smooth… Um, I'll go with the old hairy lumberjack. M: Wow, what a lucky guy! W: Tomorrow at 7 pm. I'll be waiting outside my apartment. M: Hey, what are you trying to say? That I'm old and hairy? Anyway, I'm looking forward to it!    (Written by Lauren Johnson)

I have been carrying around a 4 by 6 card that carries two affirmations. One affirmation stems from one of my father's old sayings: "Boy, you're always just a day late and a dollar short." Like many addicts and co-dependents, I have taken on the abuse given so freely to me and made it my own. That I'm always "a day late and a dollar short" comes into my thoughts frequently. That's self abuse. So my affirmations is: "I am always on time and I have plenty of money." This statement reverses my thinking and miraculously changes my behavior. The other affirmation is "All geniuses are dingbats." That's for when I lose my keys or go charging off on a mission that is bound to fail. So I try to choose my battles better and give everything I do my best shot. I forgive myself for making minor mistakes in the small things in life. I try to look at the big picture.   

I have been carrying around a 4 by 6 card that carries two affirmations. One affirmation stems from one of my father's old sayings: "Boy, you're always just a day late and a dollar short." Like many addicts and co-dependents, I have taken on the abuse given so freely to me and made it my own. That I'm always "a day late and a dollar short" comes into my thoughts frequently. That's self abuse. So my affirmations is: "I am always on time and I have plenty of money." This statement reverses my thinking and miraculously changes my behavior. The other affirmation is "All geniuses are dingbats." That's for when I lose my keys or go charging off on a mission that is bound to fail. So I try to choose my battles better and give everything I do my best shot. I forgive myself for making minor mistakes in the small things in life. I try to look at the big picture.   

DC talk has a song called "In the Light" with these lyrics:"Tell me what's going on inside of me I despise my own behavior. This only serves to confirm my suspicion. That I'm still a man in need of a savior"It's hard to handle the glaring sins of others, but even worse to realize the worst about ourselves when we fail miserably to live up to our own set standards of loyalty, honor and common decency. This is a Thread about how to avoid moral collapse and how to deal with it once you have blown it in a major way.Don't give up! Peter made it and so can we.Play Episode

Hey, it's Booster(?) and headed to work this morning. It's Tuesday November 2nd election day. That I'm not gonna talk about the election or coordinate with event. I went in early voted for weeks ago so I'm not gonna talk about that. I'll talk about November. That's right November. No is short from a spache don't ask me how to hit that. I think it's the word almost spelling in review S P A C H E so calling November and the purpose of November is to raise awareness for men's health particularly ___ every year die of prostate cancer. I don't have any stats. I'm not gonna ramble off with the stats