Podcasts about literally

Ed Millar opens our eyes to the true literal interpretation of songs with the podcast "Music Literally." In the episode he brought us, Spence gets bullied.

Welcome back basement gang! It's still women's month and we want to give a big shout to Ketanji Brown Jackson. We see you! PERSEVERE!!! We are still giving flowers to E! Shoutouts to you too! Here at the basement, we don't always agree. But when we don't agree, WE DON'T AGREE! Hear us enter the ring of debate when the topic of Ye's docuseries Jeen-Yuhs was debated. Uhmm, you're going to need a drink for this one. Sit back and relax while we dive into this art. Btw, we need a Coodie. Hit us up if you're interested. 

The Sisters are here!! Aren't they great? Let's enjoy our last round of news before General Conference and think about what might be coming our way this weekend! Also, don't miss our temple predictions! http://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2022/03/episode-575-temple-predictions-april-2022/ Latter-day Saint News Where did CTR rings come from? American Latter-day Saint becomes Ukrainian refugee Main Street Plaza at Temple Square closing in April Former BYU counsel appears on behalf of Ketanji Brown Jackson BYU honors Jewish Passover with Seder dinner NAACP reading list includes talk by President Nelson Ulisses Soares served a mission before going to the temple BYU makes list of top party schools Tabernacle Choir announces special Easter program Relief Society General Presidency likely to be released in General Conference ? Support the Pod! Do you enjoy This Week in Mormons? Help show your support by becoming a supporter on Patreon! Many hands make light work, and we'd love to have you become part of the elite Patreon family. Transcript 00:00.00 TWiM Sisters All right? hello there welcome to This Week in Mormons the sisters edition with your hosts Arianne Smith and Tiffany Hales real life sisters. Yeah and sisters. And the castle. So true here. We are at the end of March at the end of March we just finished spring break we did and so tell me about your spring break. Um, my spring break was pretty uneventful but the week before spring break I got to go chaperone a sixth grade trip. Science overnight camp in the snowy mountains and I couldn't decide if you north of quite crazy I didn't go for the whole week I only wear a glutton for punishment I only went for 2 nights with my sixth grade daughter. It was a fascinating observation of sixth graders in the wild. Literally in the wild. So I had like a cabin of five girls that I was in charge of like making sure they got to the right place at the right time there were there were college grad students there to like teach them. How to do this science. You don't have to teach anything you mass there to make sure there to make sure really behaved. There was no. Funny business. No nonsense. So yeah, did you sleep in the cabin. Yes I slept in the cabin with my girls and I don't you? How did you did you even get any yeah calling it sleep is a stretch that is for sure the second night one of the other chaperones had mercy on me and slipped me one of her melatonins. And then I was thinking if I were really smart and now I know because I've never done this before next time I'm going to get something serious like who do I know that has ambien oh you? Oh you got some right? Yeah, you just you just come to your local pharmacy which is my house I can hook you up with just about anything. Lessons for next time because I could not sleep in that cabin pool of girls not because of them. They were actually pretty good I just like couldn't yeah yeah know so but and you got 2 more kids that you have the potential to do that for. Because they do this for all 6 yeah graders. So my oldest daughter my husband went for half the week and so this was like my turn with our second oldest so we'll see if we make it for the next two. But here are my 2 observations. Okay yes, the same. What have you learned from sixth grade girls is wild. The sixth grade girls. Talk a whole lot about the boys and they like to have dance parties so that was great. The sixth grade boys wrestle. All they do wrestling sad that that all day every day I mean they even had like presentations and skits that they had to give on their like science experiments. 02:41.85 TWiM Sisters Somehow they always worked wrestling into the skits and the presentations and then when they had free time. They're just wrestling in the snow this is like this is new information for me as a mom of girls but I do have one boy. So now I'm prepared. You see this is not new information to me because.

Who doesn't love Doritos, they have been around since 1964! In this episode, I invite Trung Phan, a contributor for SatPost, Bloomberg, and co-hosted the Not Investment Advice (NIA) podcast, to come on to the show to tell me the origin of Doritos, and why are Doritos so addictive? Is it the chemical that they used to manufacture these products? The Flavors? The Brains? Or it's all three?Listen to the episode to find out! Also, you can read his Twitter thread about the Doritos here: https://twitter.com/TrungTPhan/thread/1505575719211991040Also, make sure you follow him on his substack! https://trungphan.substack.com/Visit Notepd.com to read more idea lists, or sign up and create your own idea list!My new book Skip The Line is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever you get your new book!Join You Should Run For President 2.0 Facebook Group, and we discuss why should run for president.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltucher.com/podcast.Thanks so much for listening! If you like this episode, please subscribe to “The James Altucher Show” and rate and review wherever you get your podcasts:Apple PodcastsStitcheriHeart RadioSpotify Follow me on Social Media:YouTubeTwitterFacebook

We have to take Biden seriously but not literally because he is a gaff prone ignoramus, Biden's poll numbers continue to go down and Trump's event in Georgia was underwhelming.

Will Smith was a BIG hit at the Oscars last night! He won his first Best Actor award, but, seriously… is anybody gonna remember that? When comedian Chris Rock made a joke at Jada Pinkett Smith's expense, Mr. Smith took matters into his own hands. Literally. And after years of dull ceremonies and dwindling ratings, Oscar excitement came back with a vengeance. And while Will made Hollywood history, could his career be history too?Listen ad free with Wondery+. Join Wondery+ for exclusives, binges, early access, and ad free listening. Available in the Wondery App.Support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We have to take Biden seriously but not literally because he is a gaff prone ignoramus, Biden's poll numbers continue to go down and Trump's event in Georgia was underwhelming.

On this episode, Doug and his coaches got to sit down wit Alanna Hellman from 1st Phorm Headquarters and chat all about 1st Phorm and the supplements they highly recommend to clients! Literally, everything you need to know about basic supplementation is in this episode, so make sure to listen in! Follow Alanna: https://www.instagram.com/alanna.hellman/ Instagram: @champion.living Facebook: @Championlivingfitness YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCibo-Tq2Jb6qiMBXTxnzPdw Website: https://championlivingfitness.com/ Thank you to our upcoming partners, Red Dirt Hat company! For simple designs that make a statement, from the back porch poets to the musicians, to oil field workers and rodeo cowboys, head to https://reddirthatco.com/ and use code CHAMPIONLIVING to save 15% on all hats.

In this episode Anthony and Jaben talk all things cars. Anthony watches FRONT ROW as a man hangs on to his life. Literally. Follow us on Instagram @2straightmen.

Action Plan: https://jimharshawjr.com/ACTION Free Clarity Call: https://jimharshawjr.com/APPLY World-class sky runner Hillary Allen fell off a cliff. Literally. But broken ribs, a fractured back, a ruptured ligament in her foot, and broken wrists didn't stop her from rising back up after the horrific accident. Now that's badass! In 2017, world-class ultrarunner, Hillary Allen, was at the top of her sport and it felt like she was running on top of the world as she competed in Norway's Tromsø Skyrace. She was nearly halfway through the 50k race when she fell 150 feet off an exposed ridge.  In her book, “Out and Back: A Runner's Story of Survival and Recovery Against All Odds,” Hillary recounts the dramatic story of her accident and rescue, and her fight to return to the life she loves.  With vulnerability that reveals remarkable strength and introspection that yields wisdom, Allen shares in this episode of the Success Through Failure podcast the story of her recovery— both physically and mentally— the hard-earned knowledge that the path forward is not always linear, that healing takes time, and that the process of rediscovery is ongoing as she learns what it takes to survive and thrive. Don't miss her story. Tune in now. If you don't have time to listen to the entire episode or if you hear something that you like but don't have time to write it down, be sure to grab your free copy of the Action Plan from this episode— as well as get access to action plans from EVERY episode— at http://www.JimHarshawJr.com/Action.  

Today's episode is about being criticized for our work and actions! Your hosts — and fairy godmothers in Tapping — Collette Schildkraut and Lee Uehara, got today's Tap-Along idea from their friend, Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, who just wrote the new book, Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape The Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. It's all about self-esteem today, mommas! Also, next week, you'll want to attend the Spring Energy Event: THE EFT Tapping + Wellness Retreat from Jondi Whitis, EFT Tapping Master Trainer. Lee will be there, so get your ticket -- so affordable -- and hang with her and everyone else. And, the line-up of speakers is NOT to be missed! And, BTW, Lee and Collette are on CLUBHOUSE, the new audio drop-in app! Click HERE to join them! Literally, you can log in and drop in to meet with them LIVE each Wednesday at 11:00 a.m. EST. (Sometimes they get there at 11:30am or 12:00pm, but those are rare times.) They talk about all things EFT Tapping, have guests at times — and do their famous Tap-Alongs! Join them and ask to Tap on whatever is on your mind. While the pandemic is still going on, Collette and Lee haven't been able to meet up in person to record more episodes just yet. So they thought this would be the perfect temporary solution. So again, go join them over at Clubhouse. Just click HERE to join their club, The EFT Tapping Club! You can always visit them at www.TappingLikeAMother.com, or on Instagram, or you can email them: info@tappinglikeamother.com. They'd love to hear from you!

    Albert Camus - The Stranger - Episode 1 -Introduction To Absurdity!I'm Christy Shriver and we're here to discuss books that have changed the world and have changed us.    And I'm Garry Shriver and this is the How to Love Lit Podcast.  Today we begin a three part series on Albert Camus' mostly widely translated and perhaps even read book, “L'Estranger”- which in English has been translated “The Outsider” as well as “The Stranger”- both apply and apply well, which we'll talk about more in episode three.  The initial critical reception to the novel was mixed but after WW2 as well as an aggressive marketing campaign for its first English translation, the book took off.  It was a critical success as well as a commercial one.  Camus' book today is translated in over 60 languages and has sold over 6 million copies.       It's a favorite with teenagers as well, although, I will say, most wouldn't care to tell you all about the absurdism or existentialism in the text.  They just relate to it.  It's easy to read.  In fact, a lot of high school French students will read it in the original French for the very obvious reason that they can- the language is itself deliberately simplified to the most basic of verb tenses.  Camus wrote for everyone not just for everyone to read but to express the condition of every individual who engages the world, and although the language is simple, the book is not…in fact, it's intimidating.      Well, it is intimidating not just because it asks questions that are difficult, but because it doesn't allow you to answer questions with anything like a cliché or a simple answer- in fact, for Camus to do so is to commit philosophical suicide- it is to give up on life itself- to become the Meursault of part one- to not be the protagonist of our own lives- so to speak.  But in all of its grimness on the surface, Camus is not a dark guy.  Literally or metaphorically- his favorite symbol, at least in this book, is ironically, the sun.  He wouldn't like the word “hopeful” because that goes against his world view, but he might like the phrase- defiant against darkness.    I agree with that, but before we get into the paradox which is the thinking and writing of Camus, let's talk a little about this man who managed to be the second youngest man to win the Nobel Prize for Literature, and that was in 1957.      As an aside, who was the youngest.    Rudyard Kipling did it in 1907 at the age of 41.  Camus was 44 years old, and seems to me, was more surprised than anybody that he won.  He comes across as embarrassed to have earned it, and very humbly said if he'd had a vote as to who got the award, he wouldn't even have given it to himself.  He would have given it to a different writer.  I love the fact, that He also immediately wrote a letter to one of his elementary school teacher sback in Algeria, with this to say, “  “When I heard the news, my first thought, after my mother, was of you,” The name of the teacher, by the way, by way of a shout out was Monsieur Germain. “Without you, without the affectionate hand you extended to the small poor child that I was, without your teaching and example, none of all this would have happened.”  As a teacher I find that so very endearing.  It's what every teacher would love to hear some day from a student who made good, not just one that won the Nobel prize for literature.    Well, of course.    Anyway, I mention he was from Algeria because that is an important detail in understanding him as a person, and although arguable in many critical circles, we contend is something helpful to know when understanding a person's worldview and work.      Some would call that rhetorical context.     Yes, I think they would.  Anyway, Algeria is the largest country in Africa, if you go by total area.       True, but it's large by world standards as well.  It's the tenth largest country in the world.  It's the world's largest Arab country.  It's in North Africa.  Tunisia (where part of Star Wars was filmed) is on one side and (Morocco where Casablanca was set) is on the other side.     Let me add that “Casablanca” was released two years after Camus published The Stranger if that gives you any visual context. Garry, tell us a little bit about the place Camus called home, where The Stranger is set, and the place that held Camus' heart his entire life.    Of course, Algeria, historically, has an extremely long and rich history dating remarkably to 200,000 bc, but I'm guessing you're not interested that far back.    Yeah, I'd say that would pretty much eclipse Camus, Homer, Sophocles or pretty much anything we've ever featured, let's go with modern history.    Of course.  As you would expect, as with every other part of Africa, Algeria experienced European colonialism.  By 1848, nearly all of Algeria was French.  And just like we saw with the American experience, many Europeans who were having trouble in Europe or looking for a place to find upward mobility looked to migrate to this new colony- and why not, if you were a struggling French man or woman.  Algeria is beautiful; it's warm, has beaches- there was much allure.  Camus' great grandparents were part of this movement.  These French Europeans who came to Algeria in search of a better life were called “pied Noirs” or black feet.  But just as we saw in our series “Things Fall Apart”, colonialism takes a toll on indigenous populations.  European colonial governments did  not treat local peoples equally or even respectfully, although they were technically French citizens.  In the colonial system, pied noirs dominated government as well as the wealth of Algeria.  This of course, went on during Camus life and obviously he had ample opportunity from his earliest days to watch the abuses of this system from all sorts of angles.  His views on how these inequalities should be solved eventually made him antagonistic to both the far right as well as the far left.    You know, I've read his views and what people thought of them, and at first pass, I agreed with the accusation that his “peace first- never violence” approach was naïve and something only a pie in the sky philosopher could afford to indulge, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me.  His idea was ahead of his time in some ways.  During his day 15% of the population was of European origin, that's a minority and one that was imported, obviously, but they were indeed still Algerian and a significant number of individuals.  In his case, he was born there.  Yes, he wasn't of the same skin tone as people whose ancestors had been there more than two generations, but it was still his home.  His idea was, find a way- make peace- live together.  The idea of the indigenous people was something like everyone of a different skin tone needs to get out.  And the French approach was, dominate and subjugate all local peoples of different ethnic origins.      Which of course is not a peaceful attitude on anyone's part.  After the end of WW2, which by the way, over a million soldiers from all over Africa but mostly north Africa, fought on the European front of that conflict, including many Algerians.  But after the war, Algerian Muslims demanded and eventually won their independence.  However, independence wasn't simple.  The Algerian war was bloody, deadly and long.  Algerian independence did not come until 1962.  Almost 1,000,000 pied noirs fled back to Europe, France sent 100s of thousands of soldiers to Algeria to fight against the insurrections.  Tens of thousands of young men on both sides died.  Terrorist tactics were used on both sides.  Napalm was even employed- if you recall that was the toxin of choice Americans associate with the war in Vietnam.  There were horrible internment camps. But the death count isn't the only measure of devastation. By the time Algeria finally proclaimed its independence, 70% of the workforce in Algeria was unemployed, businesses that had been run by European descendants had been confiscated by the state, but many were not being administrated productively.  Independence created a power vacuum internally.  Political factions vied for control.   For average people, life was a real struggle.        So, this was Algeria during Camus' lifetime.  He died in 1960 right before its independence.     Yes, and let me add, even into the 1990s and the early 2000s Algeria has experienced incredible internal violence and civil strife.  It does make Camus's call for peaceful resolution seem more and more reasonable- at least less costly for average people, which of course was his upbringing, and who he cared about protecting.      Yes, and it is Camus' understanding of Algeria that shaped his personal story, his politics, his philosophy and his art.  As you mentioned, Camus was a pied noir, but he certainly couldn't be described as being a member of any ruling class.   He was born in Algeria to a very low-income working-class household, and passionately loved his homeland.  I think it's important to understand, he was not European; however, he was, in many ways, an outsider in Algeria.  He was born there, but his people were not indigenous- think the title of his book- the Stranger.  There is so many ways this title could be the subtitle to the author, as well.  Let me be clear, I'm certainly not suggesting the novel I autobiographical because it is not in any overt sense- but I will suggest that his experiences did him an heightened understanding of feelings that are, of course,  universal.  Mersault, the name of our title character, by the way, was a pen name Camus had used before in other writings- so do with that what you will.  But the experiences of his life that left him an outsider are not just about his geo-political situation.  Camus' father died in one of the first battles of WW1 when Camus was one year old, and as a result, the family had to move in with Camus' uncle and their grandmother.   He has fatherless which is itself a handicap, but as you might expect, this situation wasn't awesome financially.  The family was left left in poverty.  Here, little Camus experiences another version of being an outsider.  He's the poor kid with no dad. His mother worked in factories, she was also a maid, all the things poor single moms do to make ends meet, but nothing that inspires a child with pride.  She was illiterate, was mostly deaf and suffered from a serious speech impediment.  The deafness and speech problems were a result of a childhood illness that went untreated.  Camus deeply loved his mother, but I've also read she was a distant person emotionally- we can only speculate perhaps it was because of the circumstances of her life, maybe she just was- I don't know, but I can imagine that those challenges created barriers in building relationship and intimacy.  Camus said this about his mom later in life, “"When my mother's eyes were not resting on me, I have never been able to look at her without tears springing into my eyes."    I also read, although this is getting farther along in Camus' personal story, that he commented when he received the Nobel Prize, that his mother was one woman who would never be able to read his speech.     True, and I think it's important to bring his relationship with his mother out because of his famous first line in The Stranger, but we'll get to that in a minute.  Camus, without any privilege of birth or education was still a brilliant student who managed to stand out to the point that he received scholarships to attend a very fancy high school there in Algiers- let me add, another way to be an outsider- the poor kid in the rich kid school.        True, but he was successful there- and more than just academically.  He played soccer, and in fact; was good at it.    He was a first string goalie, and perhaps might have had a shot at sports on a bigger level, except…at age 17 he contracted tuberculosis- yet another set back- one more way to be an outsider.   His disease shocked him, as you can imagine.  NO 17 year expects to be confronted with potential death, and especially not an athlete.   He had to drop out of sports, out of school, out of everything.  So, I hope you are seeing some trends here. I am.  He can't cut a break.    Yeah, Camus is definitely not the cliched spoiled rich kid privileged “thinker” who attends elite universities then sits around Parisienne cafes or salons discussing personal omniscient theories about existence and nature of the universe.      No, his buddy Jean Paul Sartre is much closer to that description than Camus, although, Sartre's ideas are actually interesting and not cliches- in fact, his explication of The Stranger is fantastic.  But before we get the Sartre/Camus drama-  and they are often associated together although not always on good terms, but before any of that, sweet Camus is getting his butt kicked by life itself in every imaginable way.  When he does show up in Paris, he's got an edge to him that's sexy to the upper crust. He's this brilliant, good-looking bad boy from the provinces, if you want to think in cliches- the James Dean of Algeria.  But before that, he recovers his health and returns to school in 1933, marries a girl named Simone Hile- a beautiful girl apparently but one with a bad drug habit.  The marriage was not good- another set back.  In 1936, he graduates from school and gets involved in supporting the Algerian Muslims and other workers in Algeria.  He joins the Communist party and even creates a theater group trying to bring the arts to the working class people of his community.         This is interesting, Camus joins the Communist party precisely because he doesn't believe in how the French are treating local people in Algieria.  He believes in fairness, equal opportunity, and sees that the power in Algeria is disproportional.  It's obvious to everyone that the  French are abusing the local populations.  He wants to be part of the solution, and he wants a peaceful solution. He wants maximum freedom for the maximum number of people.  All the things the Communists were espousing with their words.  However, through the war, he eventually changes his attitude towards the communists.    At first I thought that meant he moved towards the right.  But he doesn't really.  He will always be a leftist- he just has this very consistent view of equality- and the Communists when they got in charge did not live out the message that got them his support.     Exactly, and we see that as a problem in politics for all times- from antiquity and it's a problem today.  Camus finds Stalin and the Communists to be as awful as Hitler and the fascists.  He does NOT believe the ends ever justifies the means, and so he eventually be became disenfranchised and despised by both the right and the left.      I would say that is to his credit especially in 1940.  But speaking of that year, that's the year he divorced Simone and moved to Paris- which in retrospect, wasn't the best time to be moving to Paris.    Ah, no I would say not.  France falls to Germany in June of 1940.  There are famous pictures that most of us have seen of Nazi soldiers marching through the Arche de Triomphe.        Camus gets trapped.  He tries to get home, but he's stuck in occupied Paris.  And so, he does what he can.  He takes an active role in the resistance.  He literally risks his life through his journalism. He inspires the people of France to not give in to the Nazis; to hold on to the resistance- his essays from their period are actually published and people still find them inspirational. (One example would be “The Almond Trees” if you are going to try to Google them).  But more interesting for us, tt's also during this period that he writes the three works that would change his life.  First there is novella, if we're going to call it anything, The Stranger, but there is also and the philosophical companion piece published four months later titled, the myth of Sisyphus, as well as the play Caligula.  Camus called these three works, “The Cycle of the Absurd”.  The Stranger, which is where we want to focus, expresses the feelings of the absurd, but obviously, we can't avoid reading it without the lens of The Myth of Sisyphus  but the essay is designed to help explain the impressions or the experience we should have when reading the story.     You know, in some ways it makes total sense that Camus would write about the meaningless of life in the backdrop of WW2, but in other ways, it's a total paradox.  He doesn't advocate rolling over and surrendering to the Nazis.  His political writings instill hope, but while encouraging people to resist fascism, ironically he's writing a great philosophical work on the idea that there is no hope.    Exactly, and Camus IS a paradox.  But, in many ways, he's the most relatable philosopher most high schoolers or maybe just many of us, will ever read.  I actually love his stuff, and I'm not even an atheist, to be honest.     And I do think we need to point that Camus is an atheist, or at least an agnostic and this thinking is predicated on exactly that.  He said this, “I do not know whether this world has a meaning that is beyond me.  But I do know that I am unaware of this meaning and that, for the time being, it is impossible for me to know it.  What can a meaning beyond my condition mean to me?  I can understand only in human terms.  I understand the things I touch, things that offer me resistance.”    And of course, that is a completely rational position to hold and easy to understand.  He's one of the few philosophers I would have loved to have met, and I think it's a real loss that he died so young.  We may talk about his untimely death towards the end of the series, but I think this is a good spot to break from biography and open the book.  It's time to read that famous first line- and make no mistake about it…it's very famous and recognizable.  Garry, in your best Camus voice…would you mind.      “Maman died today. Or yesterday maybe, I don't know.”    It is the sentence that shocked the world.  In a sentence that feels so cold, he uses the personal way of saying mama- he doesn't open with “Mother died”.  He doesn't call his mother by her first name.  In French, Maman would be like us saying mom, mum or mommy or mummy- it's the term kids use to call their mothers.  And yet…look at the rest of this phrase- she died today or yesterday.  I don't know.  What do you mean you don't know?  Are you a psychopath?  Are you a monster?  Why would you seeming blow off the death of your mom.  Except Meursault isn't a psychopath.  He's not a monster.  He's lost.      If we keep reading the next sentence, we see that maybe he's not a monster, maybe the nursing home is.  The nursing home sent him this telegram.   I got a telegram from the home: "Mother deceased. Funeral tomorrow. Faithfully yours." That doesn't mean anything. Maybe it was yesterday.   it's not cruel it just feels cruel. just because it's a telegram and they have to be short.   Or, another idea, maybe it's the culture of the area to be so short, or maybe, or maybe…it's absurd.    And now we got down to the point.  Camus is introducing to us through these very short phrases a feeling we get from our world.  At this point, he's not telling us what to think, he's showing us how we fee.    Camus' world is not theistic at all, it's not deistic.  So that's important to understand.  Camus doesn't believe in God nor does he believe it's rational to believe in God.   But he's also not naturalistic or deterministic either- he's not like Steinbeck who will say, there are forces in the world and we are just victims of nature and the laws that govern it.  Camus would not even claim to be existential, although today we would say he most definitely falls in this broad category.  But he didn't call himself that- he saw existentialists like Kierkegaard, Nietche, or even Sartre, or Kafka as different, but for our purposes we don't need to really go there.  The point Camus is making here, and it's a point so many of us understand, is that the world is really an absurd place to live, and although we can go through the routine of our daily lives, making ourselves busy, doing things we think are important, there will be moments in our lives, if we are lucky (he would suggest) where we are absolutely hit in the face with an undeniable truth that the world is one heck of an absurdity.   And as a young man in his twenties, there is anger here.    So once again the author tells the whole story in the very beginning-   Yes, but let me add- this is a book that will with all intentionality will offer almost NO commentary or NO explanation about anything at all for anything that will happen in the story, but here we will receive some of the only words of explanation- and let me remind you we will see in a lot of scandal later on but here's the explanation- that doesn't mean anything”.  Well, in context doesn't he mean that it doesn't mean enough for him to know when she died?  Well, of course, but what, I think, we're seeing is beyond that.  His mother's death sets off events that will define events, if we're looking for meaning which, of course, we shouldn't because we can't find- although we will still try, even subconsciously as we go through each event in the story.  Our brains will try to find a  correlation as we see Camus take as many pains as he possibly can to clearly disconnect every single action in the story.  It will be a futile hunt for meaning in a book that is meant on teaching us that there is no connection between events- it is the nature of our existence and this we will express with this term “the absurd”.      And as soon as we read these first lines, if we are honest, we intuitively identify with them…especially if we have lived more than five minutes in this world.  We know exactly how this feels – this book describes the feeling of not being able to feel, or to feel an unidentified guilt, or to feel impulses that are even self-sabotaging.  It's acknowledging feelings that are fair and indeed human to feel.  There is a moment in everyone's life, hopefully, if you're not a sociopath or narcissist, when we realize things just don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and Meursault is experiencing this at the death of his mother.  He describes asking off from work and being made to feel guilty to the point where he literally says “it's not my fault.”   This guilt feeling is an abstract guilt, he's aware it's coming from somewhere outside of him- he's not important enough to matter that his mom is dead.  He goes on to describe his bus ride to the old people's home- and its remarkably plain.  The world is the same.  His mother is dead and as he says to himself before he catches the bus, “it's almost as if Maman weren't dead.  After the funeral, though, the case will be closed, and everything will have a more official feel to it.”  There is a sense he understands the universe but just doesn't care.    I want to go back to something you mentioned. The word “fault” is used on the first page and in this book where the main character seems so detached from everything, it's strange that his boss is to make him feel guilty for something that is entirely NOT his fault.  This is something to take note of.   We will see him revisit  next episode we will discuss this idea of guilt, in full, because it is the most important idea in the text- Meursault does commit an action that IS his fault, at least we think it is, but then we're made to question whether it is or isn't .  Camus is interested in guilt and wants to solve the problem of guilt.  So there is something to look forward to.  But on to your important point- as we read Meursault's recollection of the death and then funeral of his mother, there's much to relate with.        For one thing, Meursault''s mother's death  is reduced to a telegram without even a definitive point of time.  Both she and he are specks in the universe and the death of a speck is of no consequence whatsoever.      I totally remember the moment I understood this about myself.  When I graduated from high school, my parents sent me back to America, are you know, I grew up in Brazil.  As a child, I thought I was the center of the world, but for me, I went in one day from being a somebody in a community to being a nobody from nowhere- a speck. I  remember showing up at college in Arkansas.  I went to a dance the first week on campus.  I drove myself to a skating rink, that's where the dance was held hoping to make friends.  I walked it, was greeted by no one.  I tried to go up to a couple of people, but it seemed strange.  They all knew eath other.  I was invisible.  I was unwanted.  I was a speck.  I remember the overwhelming nature of that realization.      Every one has those moments- and there will be more than one.  At some point, many of us will all of a sudden become keenly aware of a certain level of pointlessness to almost every human enterprise- hence the myth of Sisyphus which Camus thinks is the perfect metaphor for our everyday existence.      Yeah- we didn't have time to really talk about Sisyphus, but he's a guy Odysseus meets in the underworld.  Garry, read for us the paragraph about this guy.  Now, he's in trouble with Zeus so he has a punishment.  Let's read it.    When I witnessed the torture of Sisyphus, as he wrestled with a huge rock with both hands. Bracing himself and thrusting with hands and feet he pushed the boulder uphill to the top. But every time, as he was about to send it toppling over the crest, its sheer weight turned it back, and once again towards the plain the pitiless rock rolled down. So once more he had to wrestle with the thing and push it up, while the sweat poured from his limbs and the dust rose high above his head. (Odyssey, Book 11:593)     For Camus, this is a metaphor for our everyday routines- a pointless sameness over and over.  To use Camus' words it's the, “getting up, tram, four hours of work, meal, sleep, and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, in the same routine.”  And for Camus, after a while, it all just seems absurd.  So, it's not just in the big moments where we recognize the absurd, but it is in the routine of our daily life-     Indeed, but here in the Stranger, it' feels a little overwhelming  here at the start of a novel.  “Maman died today.  Or yesterday maybe, I don't know.”- if I read it this way, it reminds me that it really doesn't matter.   Her life doesn't matter.  Her death doesn't matter.  The fact that I loved her doesn't matter.  The fact that we're here doesn't matter.   It's pretty depressing.  It's an expression of lostness.     And that's where Camus starts his philosophical treatise which he titles and wrote to explain the Stranger, “The Myth of Sisyphus”.  Let me read the first line of that famous essay.  It reads, “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide.”   Camus goes on to say that “the feeling of absurdity can strike any man in the face.”  We're to feel like we're being slapped in the face by Meursault's sense of absurdity.   And I think it's important to understand as Camus clearly differentiates that the feeling of the absurd isn't the same as the idea of the absurd.”      That kind of makes me confused pretty much immediately and tired and depressed if I think about it too long.  Sartre calls it “hopeless lucidity”. It's a tiresome feeling- and we see Mersault just wanting to sleep basically all the time.  The idea being that there will come a moent when we become lucid or aware of a certain hopelessness- and that is our beginning point.  If you're reading this book and feel disoriented- that's a good thing.  You're supposed to.  If the next feeling is one of boredom- you're getting the point.    Such irony there- so we're supposed to be bored by reading- I guess every student can identify with that.  In fact, I think that's happened to me in lots of books that are not about existential meaning of life!  HA!  So true.  The scene Camus goes on to describe in chapter 1 is described in as brief a way as humanly possible.  When you read the book at first, you think it's going to be about a mom and a son, but that's really only 12% of the book.  In reality it has nothing to do with anything else and making arbitrary connections between the funeral and the events that follow is an obvious point of absurdity.      Here are a few of the sentences as Camus writes them.  They sound like a journal someone is keeping for themselves when they have to document their actions for some court case or something.   “It was very hot.  I ate at the restaurant, at Celeste's, as usual. Everybody felt very sorry for me…I ran so as not to miss the bus.  I slept almost the whole way.  The home is two kilometers from the village.  I walked them.       Exactly, All these short isolated sentences that have no connection with anything.  No connection is made between them.  They do no explain each other like you would expect in plot progression.   They are just declarative observations,  and somehow we arrive at a feeling of  “lucid hopelessness”.    Another feature of the text that I want to point out because it's going to become incredibly important next episode is this emphasis on the sun.  When I read this book, I got the impression that Algiers must be this incredibly hot place with a boiling sun- like Memphis, btw, but then I looked it up.  It turns out the weather in Algiers is pretty much perfect.  It rarely gets excessively cold in the winter or mercilessly hot in the summer.  But in this book, we feel an intensity of heat that is stifling.  The sun is oppressive.  In fact to use Meursault's exact words he says this, “but today, with the sun bearing down, making the whole landscape shimer with heat it was inhuman and oppressive.”  It is a presence during the procession.  It makes sweat pour down Mersault's face.    And so we walk with hand in hand with our narrator this absurd man, Meursault.  And Meursault undeniably is the absurd man- and, as Sartre tells us, the absurd man does not explain, he describes.  He doesn't prove anything.  And so with no reason, he experiences th sun.  It bears down.  The glare from the sky is unbearable.  It gets to the point where it makes Mersault feel lost.  He literally says that.  Here's another description. Let's read it.  “All of it- the sun, the smell of leather and horse dung from the hearse, the smell of varnish and incense, and my fatigue after a night without sleep- was making it hard for me to see or think straight.”  And this is where reading the Myth of Sisyphus is helpful.  For Camus, the absurdity of life comes from realizing a few undeniable things about the world- and this is regardless of worldview.  1) There is something in the heart of man that seeks to find meaning. We are not absurd.  We are wired to NOT be absurd.  We as non-absurd people look to find meaning.  We're wired like that. But then there's this second reality.  2) There is something in the arbitrary nature of the way life works that defeats us. We will lose and we know it.  We desire immortality but we will die.  Life is rigged against us.  Nature wins.  The absurdity of life will absolutely win.  Good things will happen for bad people. Bad things will happen to good people?  These are truths, and certainly obvious during Camus days in occupied France.      To use his words, “The world itself is not reasonable, that is all that can be said.”  So, this is our beginning point.  Now what do we do.    In the Myth of Sisyphus, Camus talks about suicide, and he does mean physical suicide for sure, but physical suicide is not such a simple thing to understand.   And it's not the only way to kill yourself.  He uses the term “philosophical suicide”.  And this is something that Camus is really against.  But he thinks that most of us will actually commit philosophical suicide.  Benjamin Franklin thought so too.  Franklin said it this way, “  “Many people die at twenty five and aren't buried until they are seventy five.”  In other words, in order to not face the reality that life is absurd, they choose to live dishonest lives.  We lie to ourselves about almost everything.  We can use God as philosophical suicide- if you can't explain it put it on God- I'm doing  this because it is the will of God.  It is a simple answer to a complicated question, but if you can just chalk everything up to god, than it's an easy answer- a way to stop asking the question that reminds us we're absurd.  Camus focuses on religion quite a bit, but religion certainly isn't that only thing in this world that can bring meaningless for the absurd man.  I would suggest that in the year 2022, we literally use drugs- . We use entertainment.  In a rich country like the United States, we use the pursuit of wealth to find meaning.  More recently, we've used morality- not religious morality, but secular morality.  We parade it over social media, proclaiming this platform or this other one- but in reality, it's all pretty absurd.  Camus says we have a mind that desires meaning and a world that disappoints.      And so we walk on with Mersault.  We experience with him the very basic feelings of life with Meursault- Maman's death SHOULD mean something, but it doesn't.  It's an inconvenience and it's uncomfortable.  It makes him hot; it makes him tired.  We experience the absurd.  With Meursault we experience what we glean from our senses, but not a lot more than that.  In chapter one, we feel a lot of physical discomfort, but we will see next episode that sex, food and cigarettes are strong physical sensations as well.  We will watch Meursault be pushed around and do things that I find morally repulsive.  He's not a part of anything really.  He'a into nothing- he's not a soccer fan, a company man, or even a film buff.      He's quite an outsider in almost every way.  Although, I will say, he doesn't have any trouble getting a girlfriend, but even Marie seems attracted to him because he's a wierdo.  He's a stranger.  He's l'estranger.       Christy, at this point, you're not leaving us a lot to look forward to.  This seems like we're heading toward nihilism and a foregone conclusion that we know the answer to the suicide question and it's not a good one.    True, but we're really only in chapter one.  Although, I will admit, there's a lot more boredom and a whole lot more poor decision-making or lack of decision-making in Meursault's immediate future.  But let me end with this, if this was all Camus had to say, he would not be interesting.  I had a friend in high school from France, ironically.  His name was Laurent.  Laurent was nihilistic, by 18.  He had this saying that he would go around saying all the time.  To this day, I can hear him say it in my head as I can see him put three cigarettes in his mouth at one time.  He loved to smoke, and I would fuss at him for it.  He would say, “You die. You're dead. So what.”      But that is not Camus.  Camus never lost faith in justice, the life of the spirit, the power of truth.  He rejected nihilism completely.  He said this, “All of us, among the ruins, are preparing a renaissance beyond the limits of nihilism.”  At another point he says this, “No, everything is not summed up in negation and absurdity.  We know this.  But we must first posit negation and absurdity because they are what our generation had encountered and what we must take into account.”      And so we begin…with the uncomfortable sun glaring down from the sun making us hot, sweaty, sleepy and reminding us that nature always wins.      Yeah- that's the idea- the absurd reality Starts with honesty- that is opposite of philosophical suicide.     Negation and absurdity are just the beginning.  It takes a certain amount of courage to do what he's asking, but of course, I agree.  The alternative is the Meursault of part 1- the absurd man- and as you said, he's not really that likeable.    Thanks for listening……                 

We're sure many of you have pondered the luck that comes with obtaining a winning lottery ticket. Literally 1 in however many million. But have you thought about the “Curse of the Lottery” or heard any of the tales of those who have won and regretted it? In today's episode, we will be covering the story of Abraham Shakespeare- a man who won the lottery & should have had a wonderful, stress free life ahead of him. Sadly, Abraham was to experience the darkness of what came along with his winnings. Bringing us to question… is there a bigger price to pay when it comes to the lotto and is it worth it? --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/crime-cults-and-coffee/support

This week the boys podcast ~*socially distanced*~ since Eddie got COVID. At least he had a week full of Bravo TV to keep him company. Matthew and Eddie break down how Austen is LITERALLY the worst on Summer House (8:10), the problem with their fave Phillip on Kandi & The Gang (15:46), Gina vs. Shannon on RHOC (23:49), and the healing conversation between Marge & Jen on RHONJ (34:08). Summer House (8:10) Kandi & The Gang (15:46) RHOC (23:49) RHONJ (34:08)

Today on the Brain Booster we have with us former European Open winner Andrew Murray and we get the chance to discuss life on tour in the 1980's A wonderful trip down memory lane Andrew played on what many agree was the golden era of the European Tour A period of time that saw the emergence of some of the legends of the game “THE MAGNIFICENT SIX” Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo, Sandy Lyle, Bernhard Langer, Jose Maria Olazabal and Ian Woosnam A period that saw European golf dominate many of the Majors most notably the US Masters Winning the Ryder Cup at the Belfry in 1985 for the first time in numerous decades and then going on to win numerous times over the next decade. Life on tour then was light years away from what we see now Pre Internet, pre mobile phones and the ability to organise all of your travel with one click. Having to get around Europe in camper vans, hitting your own balls to your caddie on the range, persimmon woods and balata balls Literally a different world But a world that shaped the wonderful tour we see now We discussed how many of the great players found ‘their' way. The great fluid swing of Ian Woosnam and how a change of approach allowed it to flourish The wonderful talent of Sandy Lyle and how he won the European Order of merit without hardly ever hitting his driver over a full season The genuine kindness and sincerity of Bernhard Langer and why he has been able to play at such a high level for so long How Seve Ballesteros shared with Andrew some golden nuggets of information about the short game and then tried to steal one of his wedges!! Playing with the great man and how intimidating he was How he was the KING of playing the crowd and utilising their energy How Nick Faldo was able to switch off his analytical mind on the golf course and just play SHOTS The emergence of the great Swedish golfers and their approach to fitness and conditioning that changed the approach to the game The incredible contribution made by John Jacobs as both a player, coach and European Tour ambassador How a swing tip from a car mechanic and whistling helped Andrew himself win the European Open at Walton Heath How he would have worked more on the mental game if he had his time again and what that would have looked like. The wonderful camaraderie on the tour in the 1980's The rivalries and friendships that have stood the test of time Just a wonderful insight into a great period of golf and a conversation that triggered so many good memories To find out more about Andrew Murray His coaching and his experience days go to www.andrewmurraygolf.com   To find out about working with Karl Morris go to https://themindfactor.net/personal-training-2/ To book YOUR Mind Factor workshop go to www.themindfactor.com      

I loved today's conversation with Lia Pinelli around what's missing in the “weight loss” world and truly healing our mindset and relationship with food. If you struggle with chronically dieting, food taking up a large portion of your mental brain space, having tried everything to lose weight and not seeing any results, overeating, undereating, etc. this conversation is for you. Lia is one smart cookie. Despite holding degrees from both Stanford and UC Berkeley she was unable to crack the code on her struggle with overeating for decades. In 2016 she began life coach training and learned how to stop overeating using principles and practices rooted in psychology and neuroscience. She is now on a mission to help women take back their lives from outdated patriarchal norms by first ending their battle with food and weight so they can focus on what really matters– their careers, kids, communities, and lives. She now teaches women how to stop overeating by increasing pleasure and liberating them to create the lives they crave, unapologetically. Obsessed with Lizzo, bad feminism, and Real Housewives, you can count on her to have a cocktail in her hand and a good story on her tongue. Fiercely committed to changing the trajectory for the next generation of girls by helping their mothers and mentors end overeating and feel good in their own skin, Lia lives in California with her husband, son, and a dog named Taco. www.liapinelli.com @liapinellicoaching To connect with Dr. Alex further visit: www.emergentwomencoaching.com Send an email to Dr. Alex- dralex@emergentwomencoaching.com Get $230 off an initial consultation https://www.emergentwomencoaching.com/voucher-7421 Get more free trainings and connect with our private community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/trwcommunity Be sure to check out our website, follow us on Facebook and Linked In, and Instagram.

Racial inequality and inequities in health care are inextricably linked. Dayna Bowen Matthew is the dean and Harold H. Greene Professor of Law at the George Washington University Law School. She joins host Krys Boyd to discuss the ways systemic racism harms the health of minority communities and to offer solutions for more equitable health care. Her book is called “Just Health: Treating Structural Racism to Heal America.”

Dirty Little Secret is when someone calls The Jubal Show with one of their top secrets. No matter how big or dirty the secret is, Jubal Fresh, Alex Fresh and English Evan will not judge, unless you need to be judged!This Dirty Little Secret is literally a family affair! Leave a rating and review wherever you listen. It will help the show out in a big way. If that's not your thing, you can find us on social media here:https://instagram.com/thejubalshowhttps://twitter.com/thejubalshowhttps://www.tiktok.com/@thejubalshow

Wednesday's show we discussed:  Amanda Bynes conservatorship is done.  Alley's kid almost started the house on fire...LITERALLY.  Miley Cyrus's plane was hit by lightning. Is Marie a jerk for telling her husband to dial back the sports? Miss Milwaukee makes HISTORY. Earbud cleaner tool is a game changer.  The horrifying things your children have said out loud.  Enjoy the show, friend!  You're awesome. 

Pour yourself a wee dram of whisky and tune in as Matt and Dru talk with Iain Provan about the perils and benefits of literal(istic) interpretation of Scripture and his new book The Reformation and the Right Reading of Scripture (Baylor, 2017). In addition to some great convo, in this episode you'll witness the special guest appearance of an Eastern European thought leader, and a new edition of 'How Scottish Are You?' This is a republished episode.  The post Iain Provan – On Reading the Bible Literally first appeared on OnScript.

In this introductory episode, we learn about our new coachee Michelle! We discuss the importance of support and embracing the timing of your journey. Michelle shares her IVF journey that prompted her to begin her business. Hear about the steps she took to begin, her goals, biggest lessons learned so far in her business, and how she honors her journey & feelings in her decision making. Tune in for what you can expect this season on LITerally®! 

Since her first experience with Technology, Adriana Mallozzi knew it was the key to her independence. In this episode we hear how pairing that love of tech with her empathy along with advocacy and leadership skills led her to start Puffin Innovations. Literally, Adriana is creating the technology enabling more people to do their thing with their disability! Subscribe/follow wherever you get podcasts. FB & IG: @ReidMyMindRadio Twitter: @tsreid Transcripts & more: www.reidmymind.com

This week we cover one of the better weekends in Michigan basketball and athletics history, focusing on the basketball. First, we go over the men's run to the Sweet Sixteen, how they best Colorado State and Tennessee, and how they match up with Villanova. After a little Big Ten in the tournament talk, we flip over to women's side to review their opening weekend victories over American and Villanova, then examine their chances at fending off upset-minded South Dakota and how the bracket could shake out from there. PointsBet is my go-to sportsbook. You too can use (or fade) our bowl picks and take advantage of features like booster odds, same-game parlays, and name a bet. Use promo code BUCKETPROB when signing up for the PointsBet app to get your first deposit MATCHED for up to $1,000 in free bets. Double your betting potential with promo code BUCKETPROB. Use promo code BUCKETPROBLEM for 15% off your first order at homefieldapparel.com, your home for the best, softest, retro logo-est, dunking mascot-est, most fashionable licensed collegiate gear you can imagine. Yes, they have Michigan—and Slippery Rock. Sign up for the newsletter and the bonus podcast at www.thebucketproblem.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Go fund Ranger Halston: http://gofundme.com/f/eyebeam Baker Beach Beginning. You got anything new to burn? Shot to maim. HeeBeeJeeBee Healer. Radio Elektra. Shock Collared. Graveyard Dirt Ranger. You'll have to deal with that. Little infections of Burning Man. Not being freesponsible. Farming. The problem with Worker's Comp. Also, don't take acetaminophen. Plus, doggo in the background. August 30th, 2014 Man burn night. Persistent issues. Three to ten miles. Sandpersons. Literally a split second. Brand new issues. How much for how much? Those are great things. #BringBackTheGuns

On this episode of Kings Hour, we explore the trials of work, family, and entrepreneurship with Mike “Bama” Suttle. Aside from leading his family, Mike runs a very successful fitness company called “Fitness Made EZ” where he LITERALLY changes lives every 12 to 16 weeks. As Kings and Queens, we all know the difficulties of managing work, family, and your own physical and mental health. Mike is going to answer some questions and give us insight on how he balances it all.

Intro: when you don't feel your best, do the thing anyway, Fake Famous, H&M is 40 shades of putty, Stitch Fix,  Let Me Run This By You: Selfie vacations, Paul Stuart, rent a fake jet, Tevas, we are old enough to accidentally wear cool clothes. Interview: We talk to Mickey O'Sullivan about body image, sibling relationships, getting bullied, Illinois State University, The Wake, Henry Moore is Melting at The Athenaeum, addiction, Sophia Bush, Chicago PD, Casey Affleck.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina .3 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.2 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.3 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (35s):Isolation is a funny thing because it's both the thing that you feel drawn towards when you don't feel well. But it's also the thing that, you know, that makes it worse. And I saw another thing that said, the more comfortable you get with you and who you are, the less likely you're going to want to isolate because it does, you know, it it's effort to be who you are when you're, you know, not kind of sinked up. Yeah. That's all just to say that when my kids have their aches and pains and two of my kids are real vocal about every single sensation they ever have in their body at any given time. Like, I can't think of a time where these two leave the house where I haven't heard my foot hurts.2 (1m 20s):My shoulder hurts. I have a headache. My stomach hurts. It hurts when I do this. And I, I believe it all. And yet I'm like, yeah, but if you stay home, I'm not going to let you be on a screen. So you're just going to literally be staring at the wall, feeling that I wouldn't, you rather go to school. Right.1 (1m 38s):Interesting. But Gina, it has taken me to 46 to actually realize that. So they're like, literally like a year ago, I probably would've been like, you know what, I'm just gonna stay home. And like, I have a headache, but like now I realize like, oh no, I think it's also like, time is slipping by like, I'm getting older, we're marching towards death. Like I got to get outside2 (2m 3s):Dude. And1 (2m 4s):You know, so like, I, I think it takes some what it takes, but yeah, man, I know that this pandemic has created the sense that the outside world is dangerous because literally it was, so it is like a war in that we, I felt like we were in a war when, when this all started, it was two years ago this month. Right. So right. I came to visit and then all to you and then all hell broke loose. And it, yeah, it created this thing of like the danger is outside the home. And so now it's like so easy to, but I actually realize that I feel worse at home because not only then do I have a headache, I have to deal with my fucking dog.1 (2m 52s):Who's a pain in the ass and get triggered by my husband who I think should be doing his job differently. And I hear him because we're in a teeny house. So that's torture. That's worse.2 (3m 3s):That's terrible. That's no good. My corollary for that is just, I do spend all of my, I mean, I do my, everything I do is, is at my house. I take care of my house. I take care of my kids and then I write and, and work, work on, you know, artistic stuff when you're home and your office, maybe miles experiences this too. Like you don't, you're never not at work in a way. So you're, I gotta do some, I gotta do something to have more of a separation. Maybe I should just like, bro, did you, did you see what about Bob? When he, he worked from home, but he clocked in. I should know that.1 (3m 42s):Well, the other thing that I was thinking, so I, okay. I thought about this cause I was asked. Okay. So I, a friend of mine said, I have this free thing for stitch fix. Right. One of these bottles. Okay. Right. I've done those before I did DIA and co and whatever it lost, its luster, it's a waste of money. Eventually. It feels like, and it's ridiculous. Okay. But good, good news about stitch fix is that, or one of these services is that one. I love the jeans they sent me, but two, you have to leave the house to return the things you don't want or you pay for the things. Right. Okay. So that's a side benefit. And so that got me out of the house and three I'm wondering, I was like, oh, maybe I should send my code to Gina.1 (4m 26s):But then I'm like, Gina, doesn't like to shut up. Right. And Gina doesn't like, so they do the shopping, but you also don't strike me as someone who would want to dress up for our meetings.2 (4m 36s):Exactly. And I did stitch fix and did it for a while. And then I was like, well, what am I dress for? This is a big conundrum. I have just life in general. And we should tell our listeners that, you know, we're, we're contemplating recording, doing a video recorder recording of these podcasts, which will be great, but then it'll make me feel like I need to, but maybe, but maybe it's okay to feel that way. Maybe it would be actually really good for my mental health to be like, I have to get dressed for my day.1 (5m 8s):I think it helps me. I mean, look, I'm literally wearing a tank top and a bra, but like2 (5m 14s):No, that's huge. Yeah,1 (5m 15s):Yeah, yeah. Right. No, and pants without an elastic ways. So like, I think it helps me in that. And some days it's just a pain in the ass, but it also helps me to think that, yeah, at least I'm trying in some area of my life, which we're all trying in all areas, but I'm just saying it's a visual representation of the fact that like, oh, I'm trying, the other thing about coworking that I like is I get to see other people's outfits. And sometimes they're really cute. Sometimes they're fucking horrible. Like it there's a lot of like 20 year olds that are here at co-working because are 20, 25. I'm a little old. So I like age everyone down, but like a 25 year olds that cause you can rent big offices here too.1 (5m 59s):Like for companies like marketing companies. So I see the fashions of the 20 five-year-olds and I'm like, whoa, you are opening my eyes to a whole hell scape of fashion that I did not know existed.2 (6m 14s):It's all so bad. It's all so bad. By the way, before I forget the, the getting dressed is, is this the reason to do it as the same reason to make your bed every morning? Like you don't have to sure. But doing it creates a nice demarcation that you're not always just, you know, in this miasma of like doing the same, same thing. But yeah. Getting back to the fashions of it's all terrible. And I just watched this documentary called fake famous. You might really like it it's is actually so fascinating. It's a, some guy who, I'm not sure if he's a journalist or whatever, but he speaks all of the time on news programs about social media.2 (7m 2s):Like that's just his area of expertise. So he says the social experiment where he, they have a casting call where the casting call says, I'm asking for people who want to be famous. So they get 4,000 submissions1 (7m 18s):And it's is it called the theater school?2 (7m 20s):Yeah, no, it's not going to theater school. And of course, you know, they paid these people to do it inverse of what we did and they pick these three people who wants to be famous. And he was, he set out to use his knowledge of social media to make them famous, artificially famous. And it was so interesting. It's a, it's something, it's a culture that I knew about. Like, but I'm not, I don't participate in influencer culture. Right. And I don't know if you saw this thing, I posted that 40 million people in the world have a million or more followers, like really puts things in perspective.2 (8m 5s):You know? And, and, and it was also talking about how the algorithm shapes itself. So like I'm also reading this book about Alex Jones and conspiracy theories. And you know, he will say on his show, he'll say a lie. And then he'll say Google it, because he's got millions of listeners and millions of listeners Googling something. Right. Makes it, shapes it into something. Right.1 (8m 35s):It makes it true. Makes it true. You can literally an impact the truth. It's gross. But it's also, it's like literally how for me, yeah. It's like how Hitler got to power, right? There was no Google, but it is the same. Like if you believe it, it will be so on some level. And if 40 million people believe it, it will really be so on some level. Yes.2 (8m 58s):And if they tell us that earth tones and no patterns and no structure to garments looks good, eventually will believe it. And they probably are doing it because there's a glut of earth, tone fabric, and people are trying to write, but I haven't seen something that I would consider a cute outfit on a person under, or maybe even anybody, but in years, like going to the mall, I don't say, Ooh, this is great street1 (9m 29s):Snapper.2 (9m 30s):It's all just looks gross.1 (9m 33s):I went to, so I walked down my street to get to coworking and there's an H and M there. And I, and also when my niece was here, we went to H and M because they love that shit. And I, I was like, literally, this is all 40 shades of putty. Like honey, 40 shades of putty. I said, and she goes, what's potty. And I go, it's this color? 40 shades of putty is my new memoir. And it's all about this color scheme they've got going on. Right? Like it is literally Putney. The putty that came in, the eggs that we used to play with silly putty or whatever, the fuck,2 (10m 9s):Petty wood glue,1 (10m 12s):Like coffee2 (10m 13s):Grounds call,1 (10m 19s):Let me run this by you.2 (10m 27s):So one of the places, I guess that Instagram is a very popular Instagram spot, by the way, people do whole vacations that are just centered around where to have their picture made. And like, not even thinking about the vacation itself, like people come to LA. Yes. Ma'am people come to LA, let's say they had this one story on their two girls from there might have been from Russia. Now that I'm thinking of it came, you know, spent $2,000 or whatever on their ticket to come to LA. And it was literally just touring these selfie spots. One of them is the Paul Stewart building. There's a big pink, it's a Paul Stewart it's fashion design.2 (11m 9s):And it was just like, his store is the, it's a huge, huge, huge pink wall. Oh. And this is where people at any time of day, you could drive by it. And you're going to see people taking selfies there because it's an Instagram spot. Oh. So people come to LA by the droves with a list of selfie spots.1 (11m 33s):This is like fucking Pokemon people situation.2 (11m 37s):Okay. Like by dying because you're being pokey while you're driving. Yeah, exactly.1 (11m 42s):Wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah.2 (11m 43s):So I guess you don't see too much of this.1 (11m 45s):No, not, especially not in Pasadena. I can't2 (11m 48s):Imagine1 (11m 50s):Fucking suburb dude. And, and, and I would also, oh, but I did see, okay. So miles surfs. Right? And we, while he's a new surfer, I shouldn't, it's not like Kelly Slater or whatever the fuck. Anyway, the point is we went to a surf lesson once and I fucking kid, you not, there was a guy who I believe was speaking Russian on the phone at the Santa Monica parking lot at 7:00 AM beach parking lot with his Mercedes that was rented clearly with a camera on a fucking tripod, taking selfies at 7:00 AM with a rented Mercedes in a crazy outfit there when he was doing and, and, and me and miles and I, and, and, and the surf teacher, who's fucking hilarious.1 (12m 41s):Who's this stoner comedian named Jared, who is hilarious, was like, yeah, yeah, dude, this is, this is, this is it, man. This is how they do it. They like stop traffic. And, and I didn't know what he was talking about, but now that you're saying it, this is what this guy was doing. And I, he was on the bash Dudley doing it. So like, there was no embarrassment. I was like, what the fuck? And music was playing. It was videos too. Like Instagram videos, reels or something. He's fucking, he was playing rap music, which was the best thing about the whole thing was the music. But he, it was raw. And he was crouching down, like by the car, in an outfit at 7:00 AM.1 (13m 21s):And Doris was, I was with the dog of the dog was like, even the dog was like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Like what?2 (13m 28s):I never bring my personal. I was like, just taking a selfie. I have to do it usually with one of my kids. And even then it feels it's something about it feels wrong. And did you know that you can rent the space that looks like the interior of a private jet for $50 an hour so that you could take pictures and make it look like you are traveling,1 (13m 58s):Which is like my nightmare, because I'm afraid to fly. I'd go to, I'd be in hell, but okay.2 (14m 2s):Oh, you can rent a mansion for $600 in a day and have, you know, these Instagrammers, they get together like four or five looks and they rent out a mansion and they pose themselves in these ridiculous things. And then they, because they post, they have to post four times a day in order to stay relevant and to get brands that want to get a sponsor them or whatever. So they are just constantly going around looking for content. And then the pandemic happened. And I think that really gave rise to like renting these spaces because they couldn't actually go on these vacations and so forth.2 (14m 43s):Isn't that wild. It's just1 (14m 45s):Craziest shit I've ever, I'm going to watch this documentary. I M it is again, I know why you find it interesting too, is because it really reminds me of Adam McKay's work. Like what is happening? It's so meta. It's like, what? Wait a minute, wait, what is happening?2 (15m 7s):Well, ironically, I think one of the things that's happening is whereas, you know, initially the feeling about the internet, it was just made everything opened up, right. And that's still true to, to a large degree, but on another way, everybody's life is just about their phone. You know, your life takes place on this tiny little screen and, and to be in a group of people under, I mean, maybe not even that maybe just to be in a group of people is to see like 80% of them at any given moment staring at their phone, wherever they are out in the world. Right. They, one of the scenes in the movie is they, some company hires a bunch of influencers.2 (15m 51s):It's a junket, essentially. Like they take them to these selfie spots, including a abandoned water park. That's like a, that's like a great place to take salaries. They get this crew of girls and they just take them to these various spots to model this ugly, putty, colored clothing, and then get paid for brand, you know, for hashtagging the brand. And there, I was just like so depressed. I felt sick after watching that Pressing right. There was one guy who did not, he decided that actually of the three people, they picked, two of them quit during the experiment, because one of them was getting comments from his real cause the guy was buying them followers.2 (16m 38s):That's what he was doing. He bought them followers, which are all of these bots. And did you know that like people like Kim Kardashians who have whatever millions and millions it's estimated this 60% of their followers are bots. Yeppers. Yep. Yep. Yep. So I guess1 (17m 1s):I can't, I can't even process what's going on here today. Like, I, I, you, you can't people can't see what they will. Once we start recording these bad boys, the video, I like looked down at my fucking TIVA sandal. Okay. My Tivas okay. By the way, by the way I was wearing, I bought Tivas because my feet are fucked up. Right. And I had to wear, I got, I have two shoes now I can really wear, which are Hocus. And then Tivas alright, terrible. Sarah will situations. But anyway, I'm wearing black Tivas sandals that I wore literally wore in eighth grade. And then I have a fucking LL bean like throw back at, or is it an Adirondack2 (17m 45s):And1 (17m 47s):Adirondacks a chair. Right. But okay. And it has like kind of nineties, throwback colors, not on purpose. I just liked it. And I bought it has a hood. I fucking wearing that. Some jeans and my Tivas and I look like I'm going to summer camp. Right. And I'm in the coworking and these young, these young ladies go, oh my God, we'd love your throwback nineties outfit. Literally. They said that. And I was like, Oh my God, I, oh my God, I didn't ha I didn't know what was going on. And I was like, oh my God, the one there. Right. I literally looked like I was going to camp echo, which was the camp I went to the Y camp.1 (18m 30s):And I also was like, it's also kind of hideous. And yet these youngsters are thinking I'm doing it. Ironically.2 (18m 38s):Let's, let's give up.1 (18m 44s):Let's just give up. Let's kill ourselves.2 (18m 47s):Let's wave the white flag. I tried Lord. Oh Lord.1 (18m 53s):I mean, I, I couldn't understand what's going on. And I looked down and I was like, oh my God, they're so right. And I just smiled. And I was like, are they2 (19m 1s):Literally Chivas from eighth grade? Like, you literally still have your same. No,1 (19m 4s):I bought Because my feet hurt. I need sandals that are literally, it's so sad. It's so sad. And I was sitting at coworking and they walked by and they said that I looked down and I was like, I, I did, I did feel Gina. Like I just, I gave up2 (19m 23s):Trying to give up. Now we're all set.0 (19m 28s):Well2 (19m 39s):Today on the podcast, we are talking to Mickey O'Sullivan. Mickey O'Sullivan is a Chicago actor. You know him, you know him from the shy and from Chicago PD and athletes. So many television shows. I couldn't possibly mention them all here as well as theater and commercials. And he is a related and relatable, insightful, funny, warm, talented person. So please enjoy our conversation with Mickey O'Sullivan1 (20m 15s):I'm talking about right now, filling her age. I don't know. It's great. It's great. It's in a good way. You will see that my internet was in and out. It's just,2 (20m 24s):Yeah. Are you close to your router or1 (20m 27s):Even know where the router is? So there we5 (20m 29s):Go. What's the router.2 (20m 33s):Good point. Make you good. Bye. Nice flex there with your Peloton in the background.5 (20m 39s):Oh yeah. Check that out. Just like slid it over. I've got it on one of those lazy Susan's right now. This is my current look. And it just,1 (20m 48s):Do you have another lip?5 (20m 52s):Who's a lazy Susan on the table and you know how you got to kind of prop up your, your laptop. So,1 (20m 57s):Oh, I thought you had the Peloton on a fucking lazy Susan. I was like Next level.2 (21m 4s):I was adding a whole new dimension to that workout, which is already very difficult.1 (21m 8s):I was just feeling Gina and about the things, which is interesting that you popped on. So I can tell, I can say it in front of you and make you really embarrassed. So in a good way. So I was just saying, and we'll, we'll, we'll start with the official Gina opening, even though you left theater school still the same opening applies. So say it,2 (21m 27s):Congratulations. Mikio Sullivan, you survived theater school. Hey, Mickey, serve a cookie.1 (21m 35s):You deserve a cookie and all sorts of things and free therapy. And Yeah, so we all need that. But I was just saying that one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about, and we'll just dive right in and see Gina and I talked before our guests. So we're like warmed up about like psychological issues. Other people are like, what are you talking about? Like, why are you starting here? But here's how I have to start, because this is what I've realized lately. You're the only male identifying person that I've ever talked to. That talks about body image.2 (22m 8s):Oh,1 (22m 10s):I had never had a conversation where casually come up in conversation, your history of your relationship with your body as, as you from a kid to an adult, no one ever taught male, identifying person has ever talked about that with me and eight, I, it opened my eyes to like, oh shit, oh shit, men have body image issues. I did. It didn't even occur to me. So that's where I want to start. Good morning to you.5 (22m 40s):No, I'm also kind of jealous, right? So I listened to your podcast and you do you get like a real ramp up. And so this morning I was like, you know what? I need this a little bit. So I, you know, I drove the wife to work. I have a wife, I would say the word wife, which is really exciting. Thank you. And I'm also a chauffeur, which I love being. I like to be of service. I'm driving her there and I'm trying to have conversation to like warm up, you know? And she is so focused on work.2 (23m 12s):She's like, yeah. Anyway.1 (23m 17s):Yeah. She's like, that's all good. I didn't listen to the last 10 minutes. You said? Yeah. I mean, so I I'm glad that you, that was nice of you to do a ramp up, but no need, but, but, but also, can you talk a little bit about, and then we'll leave that that'll probably lead into acting stuff too, obviously in schooling, but like, what was your experience? Because you've talked about that. Like, I guess my first question would be like, what are the thoughts when I bring that up about a dude talking about body image,5 (23m 49s):To me, it makes total sense. And I'm also kind of shocked that more people don't talk about this. I mean, growing up, right. Like, yeah, kids are cruel for sure. But like, it's kind of very insidious the way that guys can be cruel to other guys. And also this idea that like, in order to be attractive to whoever I'm, whoever I'm like crushing on, like starting from a real young age is I better look like these people. And when we were growing up, those people were athletes. Right. It was never like Neil deGrasse Tyson. Right? Like it was never like these like really super intense or if it was, it was like bill gates or something.5 (24m 31s):And I don't know, like there was, there's this disconnect between masculinity and like being okay with your, your body and your body image and the way that you give off your image to other person, people so much. So to this day, I still struggle with it on a daily basis for a little while there, I was like, you know what? I think I understand the key to Hollywood success and that's the six pack and the really fucked up part was that the more, the closer I got to that goal, the better my career got. And I don't think that the two are linked. I don't think so. But I think that like, being, having to think that as somebody who's, who understands the industry pretty well and who has kind of had highs and lows in their career, if I'm thinking that then what is, you know, the version of 15 year old Makey, who's like, oh, I wonder what being an actor is like thinking.5 (25m 27s):And so that starts super young, but I was also stop me if you have questions, but I'm going to go on like a tangent here. Sure. So very young right. Actor on a baby soap opera before image is even a thing, right? Like before you have any concept of that, you give off your image to other people. I don't remember any of it, obviously. Right. And then parents separated. I come to Chicago, dad stays in New York, me and my brother growing up. My brother is always super thin, super smart. And I am always not super thin and not super smart. And so there's this kind of competitiveness that's going on right there.5 (26m 11s):But in order to fit in my brother developed a real good sense of humor at new school, very young. And I didn't, I was, I, I struggled to acclimate to like a new environment. And I guess, I don't know necessarily that I, I think that I wanted to tell myself that I had an eating problem growing up, but I don't know that that's true. I don't think I understood food or my body or energy really well because later on I started getting into athletics probably out of this complex.5 (26m 50s):Right. But I started using food for fuel and that kind of started my journey towards like understanding my body and understanding of what goes in there. But as a kid, it was like, if it's in the cupboard, I'm going to eat it. And I am a very energetic person. And so I attached myself to like food, energy, just keep going. But then when you're getting made fun of on a daily basis, energy emotions take like a lot of energy to process. And so I would come home and I would be in tears from, you know, being, they call me Shabaka my brother's name is Danica.5 (27m 30s):And they like, you know, the, the terrible people that our children. So I was always known as like, what is the one thing that is different between you and your brother? Well, you're fat and you're not. And, and yeah, like going into the career, it's awful.1 (27m 51s):But wait, I have a question. Was your family, I always wonder this because my family was not supportive. So, so I was bullied at school and I was also bullied at home. Were you bullied by your brother and your mom or no,5 (28m 8s):For sure. My brother, like, we were awful to one another, the fact that we have a relationship now and like a really good one is, is mind blowing. But yeah, we were awful each other. My mom, not so much, my mom always struggled with her body image and her weight and her reflection of herself. And I think still does to this day, like I remember like some of the conversations before our wedding was like, for both her and I like, you know, gotta start to trim up for the way, you know? So, so yeah. I don't know if I was bullied at home as much. I was, it was definitely a safe space for me coming home in that regard.5 (28m 50s):But my brother around his friends, it would increase a bit. And then of course that's like a role model to all of my friends or whatever. And then I just started hanging out with people who like, probably weren't the best for me because they weren't making fun of me. They weren't the best for me because of,1 (29m 10s):I mean, I think that it's like, we go, I'll speak for myself. I went, you go where the teasing stops. Right. Whoever's not, the love is great. And the love5 (29m 22s):Has an absence of love.1 (29m 24s):Right. I see. I always say like, I didn't necessarily want to be not if once I realized I was just going to keep being bullied, I then just wanted to be left alone. So whoever would leave me alone, if not mention it became my friend, even those people were fricking had troubles of their own. I mean, like were troubled, at least they weren't picking on me. Right. So it's like you start settling for more and more, less and less love. And like, you just want to disappear. I mean, that's what happened.5 (29m 56s):Do you think that that led to you being an artist in the sense that you started focusing more on self through isolation? Do you know what I mean?1 (30m 5s):Great question. I started. Yeah. I think that what happened was it led to my brain and heart madly trying to figure out why this was happening to me. Why was reading, being treated this way by school and at home and what I could do that was safe. And the only thing to do that was safe was make believe and create in a world where, yeah, where it wasn't about the way I looked because you know, but then you mix2 (30m 37s):Except until it totally was1 (30m 41s):When you then go to a theater school. So there you go.5 (30m 44s):Yeah. Yeah. Super weird to how that kind of comes into the mix. Right.2 (30m 50s):So I, I'm being quiet as you're talking Mickey because you're describing a dynamic that is happening in my house right now with my two sons and, and you're, so you're the, you're the grown up version. I'm really happy to hear you have a good relationship with your brother, because this is like one of my biggest fears. I had such a terrible relationship with my sister and my sons are on their way to, you know, how it seems to me is they're on their way to having that type of relationship. And maybe it's the thing about, you know, because kids are like, prof, I forget sometimes how much they have to take on at any given day.2 (31m 30s):Maybe even 90% of it at school is social. And only 10% of it is academic, but that's, that is so much that just, just like information processing and it has to happen in your body. So if you're having a hard time with it and then you're having, you know, body image issues on top of it, it's, it's all, it just seems like impossible to survive high school, you know? Like how does anybody survive high school, let alone theater school,5 (31m 60s):But oh,2 (32m 2s):No. The 15 and 13.5 (32m 4s):So part of the pandemic was they were being judged on this while they're going through like fuck and hormones and brutal. I could not imagine2 (32m 16s):Completely, completely brutal. And that's a whole other thing about education and the pandemic and how like we'll never get it back. Like, you know, it's just, there's just last years basically. But anyway. So when did you start getting into acting? When did you decide that that was something you wanted to pursue?5 (32m 34s):All right. So like alone, personally, like walking home from school, right. That, that mind was already there. Like my entire life. I was like, I'll be an actor. Not that I wanted to, but like, oh, that seems like, like I was the liar growing up. I was the storyteller I told the fucking biggest bibs in the world. And so I think like in my mind, but then it was like, oh, I'm very distractable. And I, this is how I knew I wanted to be an actor. Was that like one day that, wow, I could be a doctor. I could be a firefighter. Oh my gosh, garbage man. Why not? Right. And then the idea, like, I'd maybe like work on that for like a day.5 (33m 17s):And then the next day I'd be like, oh, I'm so interested in this. And I think later on, I was like, oh, you can go. It's a really cool way to learn about all sorts of these little things. It was just kind of like spin the wheel of roulette, acting, you know, go out for tons of commercials. You get to play a handyman for a day. And for me, like, I personally loved the pretend of like, oh, I wonder what a handyman stays like.1 (33m 41s):Yeah. That's what I remember about you is like a super curious kid, like super curious and maybe like that's part of the artist's brain too, is like, you were always curious, curious, curious, curious a hundred times curious. So what, okay, so you were like, that was your thought as you're walking home and then how did that translate into like being in a play or auditioning for shit? Or like how does that work or going to school? Yeah,5 (34m 7s):Definitely thought, right. Like funny person was my option in terms of getting out of like the social anxiety. And so my mom got me involved in a play, I think in like sixth grade, but it was outside of my social circle. It was like, we were on like the Southwest suburbs and this was way in the south suburbs. And so I didn't know anybody there only relationship to me was this thing. I played a skunk in a Winnie, the Pooh play. And then I proceeded to like rip my pants and fart in my own peace scene. So That helped the whole shitty body image to thing. Cause right.5 (34m 47s):Cause who splits their pants.2 (34m 50s):Right. Miley Cyrus actually. I mean, anybody can start therapy6 (34m 56s):It's me and my2 (34m 58s):Okay. But when it was time to pick college and you were looking around, did you look at a variety of theater programs or conservatories?5 (35m 8s):No. I don't think that I admitted to myself at that point that those was like a valid career option. So my senior year of high school, I had this like real stint in hockey where like I thought that that could be a career path for me. And then that was ended through like a variety of like injuries and you know, like personal stuff. And so then it was like I had a theater professor pulled me aside and was like, Hey, not professor, but high school teacher, special ed teacher who then ran the drama program was like, Hey, maybe you should consider doing this with your free time. Instead of just like smoking pot and smoking hookah and like driving around with your newfound free time.5 (35m 51s):And I was like, oh, maybe that's a good idea. So I did like beauty and the beast high school as like, you know, this like a side character kind of like not in the limelight. And then later on did a Shakespeare comedians, LR where we just totally ripped off of the American conservatory theater's production from, we like copied it, move by move and called it acting. And then we won state for that, which is kind of backwards, you know, like we won state for copying and production. So I definitely thought it was good, but I didn't think that I was any good at like creating my own versions of characters or anything. So I knew I had to apply to a school.5 (36m 32s):I had no idea what I was going to apply to. That seemed to be what I was good at. So I did a double major and special education and, and theater because I didn't think that a, my parents would approve of me being fully theater student. And then B I felt like maybe it was either a selfish career path or yeah, not like, I think I wanted something more noble maybe. And I had experience working summer camps for special Olympics and stuff like that growing up. So I was like, oh, that's a, that's an interesting thing. So then when I got to Illinois state university, they were one of the schools that accepted me.5 (37m 15s):I had no concept of what a theater school should be, none whatsoever. And a lot of the other people were like, oh, I did four years of drama and four years of forensics. And in the summers, I go away to theater camp and I was like, I played hockey. And so I didn't fit in again. Right. Which was fine because I learned how to be by myself. And so I started making all of my social circles outside of the theater department for the most part. And I think in a way that kind of helped me, like I practice my monologues in front of my buddy, Greg, who I think Greg does like computer science and you would just go, I think that was good. You know, it really became self self reflection.5 (37m 59s):And the weird part is like, I would go in and I, I really did become the, the, one of the golden children of my department. I was an asshole. Yeah. So a hundred percent I was cast in a li almost immediately. And2 (38m 18s):It does not surprise me because this is what always happens. Like the, the men who go into drama don't tend towards the masculine. Right. So then when they get somebody who's like, I played hockey that, I mean, you know, that happened in my high school. That1 (38m 35s):Happened our theater school too.5 (38m 37s):I think it's backwards too though. Cause you the more in touch with my feminine, oh, I hate that word. But like, you know, like this idea that like there's a masculine, the more I got in touch with myself and with art, I felt the better I did. Right. I still think that to this day, like the more I'm receptive to my own emotions and the emotions of those around me, the better I'm able to handle my career.1 (39m 4s):Yeah. It just sounds like the, the, the bind that we're all in, which is people want you to be a certain way. But when you actually invest in being another way, it's going to make you a better person than artists, but nobody really wants that, but they say they want it. So men are in a bind. I guess what I'm saying is like, you're the first male guest that we've had on that I've known. And I know the struggles that you've been through and it, it opened my eyes to theater school for men straight men specifically are men that identify as straight, whatever. It's a, it's a bind for you too. It's a bind for you. So I guess, what did you love about theater school and what were you like? I'm outta here.1 (39m 46s):That's my question.5 (39m 48s):Yeah. And those are all awesome points. Like it continues. The body image thing continues all throughout college. And I do grow closer to myself through that. But I think the thing that I loved about it is that I had that opportunity for the first time in my life. Like hockey was definitely an obsession for me. I tend to gravitate towards obsessing. And so to get into theater school, I didn't take any gen EDS. I like, I, I forgot my degree. I failed out of school. And finally, because I just, I wasn't interested in anything except for learning all of the theater that I think at some point I looked at somebody I MDB and I was like, oh, they were, you know, working for 15 years before they had their big, big, big break right there before they were discovered.5 (40m 36s):And so I was like, oh, I have a lot of catching up to do. Right. I didn't do this until my, until I was 18. Now it's time to catch up. So I just started like taking only theater classes. And then the idea that you can sit or lay on the ground in a dark room, surrounded by your peers and think about what shape your body is making and what noises are coming out to me. That was super interesting to me. I got lost in that world. And I still think to this day, like my brother is a finance guy and he he'll never know what it's like to just weep behind a mask because you saw something a certain way one day. And so for me, that was a celebrated thing.5 (41m 18s):It was like, congratulations, you, you cried behind the mask. I don't know. It's still is kind of a bizarre thing to like to reflect on. But my, my presentation skills got better at, than my social emotional skills got better. I was spending every night in a rehearsal space getting to know how to best work with people and how to make mistakes, like going back. I love college. I don't like the results of college. I don't like the way that it was kind of organized. People were cut after certain years. It was very dramatic. But theater school for me was, I mean, what a dream, right? Like I got to wake up, put on a leotard and go stretch for two hours and then go into a voice class.5 (42m 1s):Talk about my feelings towards words, study history.1 (42m 8s):I wish I could, I want to go. What if I apply where they, that's a horrible idea. I do this all the time, by the way. But like, it sounds so great when you guys, when you say it, I'm like, wait, I was wasted. I wasted my time there. I wasted my time.5 (42m 26s):I don't know though. Right. Like I think I've spent the rest of my career being like, okay, so what can I take from that? Because that's not the real world. The real world is not that you get to wake up and do that. But like, certainly I've recently gotten back into like stretching and mourning, like yoga in the mornings and stuff. And I'm like, oh, that was something that really works for you back then. Where did that go? And so, right. Like creating my own schedule. I think also I got, I was supposed to get a, B S and not a BFA. So I think I definitely missed some of the, I had more rigidity in my schedule that I think some of my peers and that made me resist the regular general education stuff and spend more time.5 (43m 16s):Like I committed to every directing project that somebody was doing. Right. Like they're in a class. And I was like, I'll do it. When they were like, bring one monologue to class. I was like, well, I'll take up the whole class and bring 10. I was super selfish about theater classes as well. Like if nobody else wanted to go, it was like, well, what are we doing here? I'll go.1 (43m 37s):Wow.5 (43m 38s):So I S I experienced a ton. Right. I was looking through, I, I was like reflecting the other day and I don't understand how I did all of that in four years or four and a half years or whatever, because I probably did at least 10 projects a year. And then I stayed during the summers and did community theater, like a playwrights festival there as well. And so I was just constantly going, but a weird body image thing. Right. So freshmen, what are the freshmen 15? I put on like the freshmen 45 drinking a lot. Right. Partying, a lot, eating food from the food Corp,1 (44m 18s):Chicken fingers, chicken fingers, fingers.5 (44m 22s):So much cheese.1 (44m 25s):Yeah.5 (44m 25s):And then I played my first like bigger role was Toby belching 12th night. So, so, oh, you have extra, you are bigger than other people. Now you're going to play the funny role, right. The drunkard, the, this or that. And I don't know what came too, but I think somebody made a body image comment in my final assessment that year. And regardless of whether that was a positive or negative thing, I committed that summer to not being what they thought I was. Right. I was like, I'm not just this1 (45m 6s):Comment. Do you remember the comment?5 (45m 7s):I don't remember. I just know that there was a catalyst, right. Something happened in that last little meeting where either what was said, or what was not said was not what I wanted to write. And so I was like, I have, I have a fucking chip on my shoulder. I love to prove people wrong. It's like a weird obsession thing as well, prove myself wrong. And so I, I went and I went running and I went back to this like, athlete, like, oh, this is how I preserve myself. And maybe if my feelings were hurt, right. Like I can focus all of that into this.5 (45m 47s):And I lost, like, I lost a lot of weight very quickly. And then that next, you know, I was the romantic leading man, the next fall In Philadelphia for the story. And to the point where like, this is how little I understood. They're like, you're doing the Philadelphia story. Will you come in and read for like the dad role? And I was like, okay. And I was like, oh, this is the dad role. It's a musical, obviously in my brain. And it's not, yeah. It's not, it's, it's Carrie gray Audrey. But I was like, I didn't read the play. I had no idea.5 (46m 27s):And then they cast me as like the leading romantically, not Carrie Grant's character. And I was like, oh no, this is a terrible idea. They don't know that. I can't say6 (46m 43s):I showed up to them like ready to like, 2 (46m 50s):Mickey. Would it be fair to say that, like, you've had to figure, I mean, a lot of people come to acting as a way to figure themselves out. Right? Like a lot of people like the idea of trying on roles. Cause that's what they're also doing with their own identity. And I do see like a little bit of a trend where a lot of people who do it for that reason, maybe didn't get enough reflected back to them when they were a kid or they got reflected only these negative things like you're describing about getting bullied. So, I mean, would it be fair to say that it's taken you oh, a long time to get to know who you really are?2 (47m 31s):Are you still in a process of figuring that out? Like, did you, how much, or how little did you know yourself when you were at theater school?5 (47m 41s):Yeah, totally fair to say. I didn't, I didn't really know myself. I definitely was enjoying the process of getting to know myself, but I didn't really have an understanding of like why I was the way I was. I, and I am definitely still in the process of trying to figure that out. I think I did a play right when I left school called, called awake. And it was about a young man. Who's a poet who's who thought his father was a poet and turns out there was, it was his brother. Like my, my father's brother was my actual father.5 (48m 22s):And it was just like, I don't know myself. I need to go figure out who I am. And that really resonated with me. It was like this idea that like sometimes what we feel is just the, the anxiety or the poles that we feel is just us going while I thought I would have known myself more by now. And so, yeah, definitely still trying to figure it out. My process, creative process. I mean, like that's constantly in flux, never the same. And that's like hockey stuff too. The reason I liked hockey was you could run a set play, and it's always going to be different every single time.5 (49m 4s):And the idea of theater, right? Like you, you get up every night and you do it. And like something about the way that your day went will be reflected in your performance. And, and so that's interesting to me. Yeah.1 (49m 23s):Interesting. I never got that. I never, I never knew that that acting was about me. Do you know what I mean? Like I never got that note. Like that message. I missed that whole thing that like, I could bring my whole self to a role. It doesn't mean that it's me. Like, but that I was allowed to bring my whole self to the role. And in fact, if I did, my acting would be better. Like I miss so much, I'm just so bombed, but I'm learning it. I'm learning it from, from listening to people like you on the podcast and talking with them like, oh, I'm helping to, to, when I teach now, I'm like, bring you, you're helping me.1 (50m 7s):The other thing I want to say is that when I saw you Mickey in my first time seeing you in a lead role or any role was at the greenhouse, I dunno, Athen am in Henry Morris, melting this, play it. And I'd never seen Mickey act. And someone was like, I have my own problems. Like, why am I going? I went to this5 (50m 36s):That's great advice. Yeah.1 (50m 40s):Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I give you terrible advice. I was like, go to LA, you're going to be famous. But like, yeah. Well, anyway, so I saw this play. I saw you in the play and I was like, this is one of the best actors I've ever seen in my life. I, I, I was blown away. I thought, oh, this kid knows what the fuck he's doing. And commits 125% on stage, which is, it just was miles ahead of what everyone else was doing onstage, but not in a real snarky way, in a real working man sort of a way so that you don't hate Mickey because you're like, oh, this is a good person.1 (51m 26s):They just really are committed to what the fuck they're doing. I had never seen that from an actor your age, because we're2 (51m 34s):Obsessed.1 (51m 37s):And I was like,5 (51m 38s):Oh,1 (51m 39s):This kid is the real deal. Like I,5 (51m 43s):That maybe I was avoiding My work. I was avoiding all of the other things that were sitting outside of that. Right. That like were valuable pieces of insight that I could have learned about myself. But like, I, at that point, Jen, like I was moving to LA because I did not have a home. Right. Like it was a warmer climate. Like I had no money to my name whatsoever. I struggled with addiction. I right. Like I had all of these personal life crises going on, but theater is a place where you can go for two hours, whether you're seeing it or whether you're in it and totally just purposefully forget everything else.5 (52m 26s):And so I put off a lot of like personal growth until probably like 30 years old, at least like real is true. Like this might work for you, but it is destructive. I put off that work because I was like, oh, it serves me. Right? Like it's, it gives me energy to put into my career. It is going to better knees somehow to hurt.2 (52m 49s):How do you, how, how does the casting world see you? Like who are you as an actor?5 (52m 56s):That's a good question. I wish I knew. I think I'm, I think I play intense characters that I played, blue collar characters, definitely people with an emotional depth, like an intense, emotional depth. I have, I'm starting to play the good guy. All of a sudden, which is interesting. I like playing the best friend role. And I think I kind of look at every role as the best role, you know, I am there to do something.8 (53m 32s):Yeah. Right.1 (53m 37s):Which is why they want you for the leading man role. Look, this is, it makes perfect sense to me from an outside. I'm like, they want you, so you are finally what I'm hearing too is like, you're finally what you said is like starting to do the work on yourself, right? Like as a person, as a human, as a father, as a, as a, as a husband, as all the things. Right? So it makes perfect sense that you are now playing the good guy. And also that you now are wanted by people to play the lead. Even though you want to play the best friend and you play leads to, I'm not saying you don't want to play the lead, but it, it just all makes sense.1 (54m 18s):It all makes sense that when you work on yourself, if, and if you're lucky and all the things that You5 (54m 24s):End up your1 (54m 24s):Career advancing when you do the work on5 (54m 27s):Yourself1 (54m 28s):Internally, but5 (54m 30s):Then you can decide whether or not things are working. And that's like the, the small business perspective, right? Like you open a small business on the corner, your first year, you're, you're looking at like high expenses, right? Like expense your entire store. You're going to be in the red for a while. Second year, you maybe are developing a customer client relationship. Third year, maybe you have a personal crisis and things take a step back fourth year, whatever fifth year, by the time the fifth year goes, you go, I have some solid data to work with. Right? Maybe this network isn't working for me and I need to go to a different network. And I S I subverted a lot of bad advice. I didn't listen to any of it.5 (55m 10s):I went from New York back to Bloomington, normal Illinois to try to get my degree and failing out again, because I did too much theater up to Minnesota, Chicago, California, Colorado, back to Chicago, and about three years, four years. Yeah. And so then I got back to Chicago and I was like, oh, this is what it's like, when you stay in a place for a little while, maybe people have a chance to respond to the postcards that you're sending up.2 (55m 40s):Yeah. And what's that whole thing, like now, since I've been out of it for so long triangle, when you're first starting out and trying to get people to know you, you said you still send them postcards with your, with your headshot on one side or something.5 (55m 54s):Snail mail, baby headshots. Right. I would print go to Kinko's or FedEx or whatever. I've had tons of headshots, tons of resumes, tons of cover letters. And I'd send them to everybody which maybe is what I'm learning. Now. Thankfully, I have representation. I've had representation for a really long time. Is that like, maybe be targeted with the people that you want to work with and focus on that rather than like, will anybody like me please will anybody, But maybe I had a better, I I've never thought about this. I submitted to two agencies or one agency that called me, and it was a really big name in Chicago.5 (56m 39s):And they called me in and they kept calling me Maki, like, Hey, Maki, come here. And then they were like, yeah, my name is Mickey. Sorry. That was the thing that they call me,1 (56m 59s):Excuse me.5 (57m 1s):And I was like, well,1 (57m 2s):That's the greatest fucking name I've ever heard of. I mean, it's not your name, but it's a great name. Yeah.5 (57m 8s):They brought me into the room and they're like, okay, give us your monologue. But look at the wall. They're so spot on the wall, look at it. So I did the whole thing and they were like, how are you expecting to have a good relationship with casting? If you just stare while you talk the entire time. And I was like, oh, I thought you said, like stare at the wall and talk. And they were like, you know what I think, like with your look and your experience, we could do a trial contract. And I was like, maybe finally at that point, did I have the guts in my life to be like, I don't need just anyone to be my friend or to work with me.2 (57m 48s):Maki need somebody who can really connect with5 (57m 51s):It knows my name, you know, that read the email. And then sure enough, I, I reached out to somebody who I knew was an agent and I had a meeting with them and I was like, Hey, is that how all of them should go? Because if it is, I'll just take the contract and I'll work in the industry and whatever. But if it's not, I'm not going to sign with somebody who's a Dick. Who's like too overwhelmed to actually build new relationships. Let me go and focus on somebody who like, wants to have a conversation about what I think of the industry and my place in that.2 (58m 23s):Oh, it makes me sick to think about how many people who are in those positions of power. It's, that's all they're interested in is the sort of the power play of it all. Like this thing that we start doing when we're kids and for some people we don't ever outgrow it, which is like, I don't need you. You need me, you know, the way that I show my, you know, whatever that ability in the world is to reject you instead of, you know, to be inclusive or, or even just, I mean, just a kind thing, because by the way, nobody has, is named Maki. So they should have had a sense of like, wait, why are we saying this? Right. I mean, right.2 (59m 3s):Shouldn't they have had some idea that5 (59m 6s):I do. Like, maybe I'm a sucker and lately I've been trying to think of like, what are all of the reasons that people could act like that? Because I don't get it right. Like, I don't get like, the I'm going to go brag to people about how I treated this person, like shit. And I, I think maybe it like it, it is just a really deep, deep, personal thing that's going on. That's totally clouding. Then being aware of how they're treating other people at all. Because I don't, I it's gotta be because I don't, I I've never heard anybody brag to me about how they treated somebody like shit in my entire life. I know that that's a thing that generally, as humans, we feel deep shame about and how maybe that deep shame manifests is just constantly being so focused on, on you and the things that you have to do and, you know, maintaining your own personal level of success and survival.5 (59m 59s):It's this fucked up survival tactic of like nobody else matters only what I'm doing matters. Maybe. I dunno. Maybe I'm just a sucker.1 (1h 0m 8s):No, I think it's, I think you're right. Like I think people get so caught up in their own process. They don't even know some people do, but I think that's like the exceptional sociopath psychopath, but like most people are just like low level nurses. We're all such low level narcissists mixed with our childhood trauma. We don't even realize what we're doing. I swear because I have confronted people, you know, that I've, I've confronted big wigs and said, do you realize that you're talking like this person is a piece of shit and they're like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, oh my God, most people don't understand.2 (1h 0m 50s):And most people are so far from understanding that the, that the farthest they'll ever get with that is just a defensive will know you're the asshole for pointing out. Right. I mean, that's, that's, that's usually the limit. It never ceases to amaze me. And yet it always amazes me. No, that's the same thing. how with, you know, my, the thing I'm always interested is getting from surface to depth with people. But I think like maybe 98% of the population is just really interested in staying or maybe it's just because of where I'm living. I don't know. But I, I find that not only do people not want to go from surface to depth, they're frightened and weirded out by you wanting to do that.2 (1h 1m 35s):You know what I mean? Because my thing is always like, we all know that the weather is how it is. Like, can we just like, let's skip that part. Let's go to the next thing. And people don't like that. They really don't like that.1 (1h 1m 47s):No people are not interested in that because what they have to, I am convinced that at the, at the core of that is, oh, one day I'm going to die and everyone I know is going to die.2 (1h 1m 59s):And1 (1h 1m 59s):If we talk about real, if we talk about real stuff, it'll inevitably lead me to, oh my God, everyone I love is going to die and I'm going to die. And I can't handle that. So I'm going to do drugs or do anything else instead, or not, or talk about the,5 (1h 2m 13s):Not the talking about the weather, but that's where I'm at right now is that I'm like, oh, the most important thing that we could do now is acknowledged the back that we're going to die2 (1h 2m 23s):Because it's so much freedom by the way, because it's not like, sorry to spoiler alert, but everybody is going to die. So like let's instead of being, spending your entire life afraid of that thing, embrace it because you're not going to die right now necessarily, you know, like you could make right now more interesting, right.5 (1h 2m 43s):Enjoy right now. Right. In a way1 (1h 2m 46s):Even noticed right now, just notice that we're actually alive. And I, and that we are here now doing things, talking, eating, all the things that we do it's happening. I think that that's what I've come to in this podcast. And in my life is like if the most I ever get to is, oh, this is actually happening. I'm here. This is going on. How I feel about it as how I feel about it, but this is what's going on. Acknowledging them. That's going to have to be enough because to go deep with people is such a treat and so rare. But like, I have to still stay true to the acknowledging part.1 (1h 3m 28s):Like, oh, you, you might be uncomfortable, but I'm going to acknowledge in my own way that, that, that we're all going to die in. And that's part of the impermanence. I'm going to acknowledge it to myself because if I don't, it just really leads to2 (1h 3m 40s):You just feel so isolated and desperate and yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, speaking of isolated and desperate and alone, you mentioned going through some issues with addiction. How, how do you, could you say anything about that and how you, how you got ahead of it?5 (1h 4m 0s):Yeah. Never out of it, right? Like I am an addict through and through, right? Like it's anything that make me feel better and then like learning what those good things are and what leads to right. This path of destruction. I think really early on, I was constantly the kid that was if he only put his mind towards things, but I think if you only focused on those thing, and so that got me on this idea of like, whatever it is, and this is where obsession came in, right. Like if I could just focus on stuff and then I would dive 110%. And so what were the things that allowed me to do that?5 (1h 4m 41s):Right? Like first it was, you know, cigarettes, right? Like I could just sit there and read a play and read another play and smoke cigarettes, I guess. Right. Like definitely alcohol is in there. It's not like my primary. I, I do not go into functioning or nonfunctioning relationships where this, where I'm like, oh, I need this to function. Or I need this not to be totally dysfunctional. But early in my life, it was definitely a medicine of some sort. Right. Like I was definitely looking at it for relief. I drank a lot and drank, it was binge. Like, that was the way that we drank in high school and college.5 (1h 5m 23s):You had three hours to drink. You better drink a lot of it. Right.9 (1h 5m 27s):So true.5 (1h 5m 30s):So that was a thing. And then Adderall became a thing for me where it was like, this is something that allowed me to sit and work for hours on end. And certainly I think that, like, if I'm going to go to a psychiatrist, they would be like, I think you definitely have some traits that are right there with add or ADHD, but I did it. And so I would just abuse on my own. Right. Like, and I, I looked at it as the investment opportunity of a lifetime. Right. It was like, you're going to constantly have this on you. You're going to constantly be taking it. You're going to constantly be working. And that led to cigarettes. Right. That led to me avoiding all of my own personal shit.5 (1h 6m 13s):And then, right. Like the way I quote unquote got out of the throws of it was total collapse2 (1h 6m 24s):All the way to the bottom5 (1h 6m 26s):All the way. Right. Many times where I thought that I was going to die. Right. That I thought I was like, I would not sleep at night and a very functioning. Right. Nobody, nobody knew at least that I know of. Right. Like, I'm sure, like now looking back like, oh, something's going on there? Like, but it was a whole production for me. Right. Like I had the hand sanitizer to stop my hands from smelling like smoke. Right. So nobody needed to know that, like that was my preparation to get myself right. For, you know, the audition. And then it was, you know, I've got gum, I've got Gatorade to keep my body, like all of the, the electrolytes in my body up because I haven't slept in two days, I've got like coffee.5 (1h 7m 17s):And so like financially fell apart. Right. And no good reason. Right. Like best point in my career probably was like, you know, commercial money coming in, episodic money coming in. And for me, this was just like, great. Double-down on my investment. Great. Like be better, be better. And in my version of better was more, more altered, I guess. So never out of it and re emotionally my relationships fell apart. Right. I stopped paying attention to what other people, how other people were reacting around me.5 (1h 7m 58s):And that kind of led into acting, I guess, a little bit that like, it wasn't maybe until like five years ago. And Jen, this is where I'm a little bit jealous of you. Is that like, I did think that what you said earlier was like, I never considered myself, like the main part of gen actor being so valuable to whatever character I'm playing. I never considered that, the shit that I was trying in rehearsal, like just like a kid in a box, like had real time attacks on the other actors that I'm working with.1 (1h 8m 31s):I never considered that either. Like, but you're right. Like, it goes both ways, right.5 (1h 8m 37s):If you're in a, if you're in a meeting with a coworker at an office and they never focused on one idea long enough for everyone to kind of like gel with the idea, you don't work with that person for very long, even if what they're doing is an abusive or hurtful or anything like that, it's just not conducive to like, right. Especially for theater, where in Chicago, right? Like you get $300 for an eight week stipend. And so you better really get everybody read it better, really be getting something out of that rehearsal time. And I was selfish, you know, like this is about me and my journey and my character and, and everybody else better fight for that.5 (1h 9m 17s):And there's, and that's what conflict is. And that's what drama is.2 (1h 9m 22s):Well, what are your feelings about that? The stories that we hear about famous actors who do that, who still do that, that's still their process. Does it make you mad?5 (1h 9m 31s):Yeah, I think it's so misguided. Right. And I'm thankful that I've had enough experiences where I'm like, oh, you're, you were kind of the Dick there that could be bad. That could develop. Right. Or somebody who pulled me aside and was like, you know, that just wasn't necessary or whatever, really, really early on, I moved to New York and I was in a play festival. And it was like about what is that? The witch who they shove into the oven, what was that called? The Hansel Hansel and Gretel. I was Honsel I guess. And we were pushing the witch into the fire and they were like, yeah, you used a broom and we didn't have a broom.5 (1h 10m 17s):And so like fresh out of college, Mickey was like here, hand on the butt. And afterwards this woman came up to me and she was like, don't do that ever again. And I was like, oh my God, what did I do? I have no idea. I'm so sorry. And at first I was really kind of like, come on, like, what are we going to do? Like you needed to get it. So it was my first time being like, oh wow. And she was older than I was. And so to me that told me that she's been hurt in this process and that through whatever trauma that she's been through, like this is not the, the road to working with other people.5 (1h 11m 2s):Right. And so there's just like little moments like that, that I think if you're so blind you're so like, I need to get to the top. I needed to get to the top. I needed to get to the top. It's really easy to just that everybody is being1 (1h 11m 16s):Right. Right. It's like, that's5 (1h 11m 19s):Like1 (1h 11m 20s):This whole reckoning, this whole reckoning that the arts and humanity and the U S and everyone is doing, which is like, that may be true. You said something really important to me, which is, it may be true that people are overly sensitive. You didn't say this part, but I, I think people can be, oh, I can be overly sensitive. That's for fucking shirt. And it's also true that that is not the way to working with others. So like, both are true. Like I have sensitive issues. And you notice that like, doing that kind of behavior is actually not conducive to doing good art and creating and not, and getting jobs, the whole thing.1 (1h 12m 2s):So like, it's interesting. It's like you took the note and actually took it. Whether you took it all in or whatever, you took the note, but a lot of these dudes aren't taking the note. They're not getting the note. They're seeing it as the people are over sensitive, which they might be, but they're also not taking the note, like take the note, you know,5 (1h 12m 21s):I take the note. Absolutely. That's something like in college that we were constantly reminded. It's like, you don't have to respond. Just take it, write it down and think about it for a, for an eye and then com

Covering almost 960 acres Bangour Village Hospital has been through the wars. Literally. This Asylum has been through two world wars, treated wounded soldiers, the mentally ill and even has over 500 unmarked graves onsite. So join me as I go through the history and hauntings of Bangour Village Hospital. Contact Us: scottishandscared@gmail.com Instagram: @scottishandscaredpod

Shelly and Cam explore anchoring as a practice this week. With the three barriers of awareness, action and learning, those of us with ADHD can lose touch with tried and true knowledge and proven practices. Seeing ourselves in the picture matters, but over time the picture can fade. Anchoring to what we know to be true is a proven practice to keep us tethered to our best practices and keeps us front and center in the picture. With ADHD we can set down knowledge and practices like setting down a set of keys. Eventually the keys become relevant when we need to drive somewhere. The irony here is that we can lose the awareness of the need or value of a practice or a nugget of relevant information. Literally out of sight, out of mind. Shelly and Cam discuss how the pause from pause, disrupt, pivot is an opportunity to introduce an anchor practice. Shelly shares a client story where her client realizes how smelling a candle triggers a connection to a value of lightness and humor. Anchoring to what we know to be true opens us to living more authentically and within our values and strengths. The hosts leave the listener with an exercise to develop awareness around the practice of anchoring. Episode links + resources: Join the Community | Become a Patron Our Process: Understand, Own, Translate. About Cam and Shelly For more of the Translating ADHD podcast: Episode Transcripts: visit TranslatingADHD.com and click on the episode Follow us on Twitter: @TranslatingADHD Visit the Website: TranslatingADHD.com

This week we take a look at the 2009 documentary, 'tallhotblond.' Perhaps one one of the most disturbing online catfishing cases ever. The lies and deceit of the perpetrators, resulted in the murder of a 22yr old man. Literally, nothing is as it seems in this case. Join us as we take a look at this disturbing case.   Become a Patron here: https://patron.podbean.com/betweenthecrackspodcast  

This one is just totally all over the map. From close personal friend of the show Gabe being stuck in Tahiti to the banking system. Literally all over the map.@sundayconversation

Brent joins us on That Awkward Moment to tell us about a butt dial gone wrong....or maybe a watch dial gone wrong!

A “3” on the Enneagram, mom to two toddlers (one with autism), serving two churches, and a daily rhythm of rippin' and running' to get it all done, Charity hit the floor. Literally. After what she describes as an “emotional heart attack,” she began a journey to find herself again and start living into the true purpose and calling God gave her while helping others to do the same. About Charity Rev. Charity Goodwin serves as the Clayton Site Pastor of The Gathering in St Louis. She has served in ministry for over 20 years and is a certified coach, author, facilitator and sought-after keynote speaker. She is the founder of Speaking Life where she helps people discover their calling and break free from the over-worked, over-productive, over-achieving life. She is the author of the book, GET UP: Unearthing your Passion and Taking Brave Action in 50 Days - a devotional journey that will lead you from burnout to breakthrough. Rev. Goodwin is also the co-founder of Black Genus School – a virtual learning community that provides engaging and empowering experiences for Black families and their school-age children. She is mom to Levi Nicolas, who she describes as the ham in the fam, and Gabriel Jicotea, the budding engineer and computer tech of the family. Gabriel has autism and has shaped and textured her voice with an empathy and realness that cannot be manufactured. Charity loves to dance, listen to podcasts, watch period dramas and spend time relaxing in her big comfy chair. Connect with Charity Visit www.charitygoodwin.com to purchase the book, GET UP and learn about coaching. Click here to join the waitlist for the New GET UP Facilitator Guide!

As Steven starts pitching audience questions to Matt Ford, Matt hits home runs of information every time. Listen up as we talk about differences between rural vs urban non-competes, acquisition metrics & red flags, solo vs group practice management philosophies, buying right out of school, and so much more.  Literally grab a pen and paper for this one!

SUMMARY: Overcoming Health Anxiety is possible! Today, we interview Ken Goodman and his client Maria on overcoming hpyochondria using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. In this episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, you will learn key concepts of health anxiety and how to overcome their health anxiety. In This Episode: What it is like to have health anxiety The key concepts of treating Hypochondria Tips for managing fears of death and cancer. A step-by-step approach to overcoming health anxiety. Links To Things I Talk About: https://www.kengoodmantherapy.com/ Quiet Mind Solutions ERP School: https://www.cbtschool.com/erp-school-lp Episode Sponsor: This episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit is brought to you by CBTschool.com. CBTschool.com is a psychoeducation platform that provides courses and other online resources for people with anxiety, OCD, and Body-Focused Repetitive Behaviors. Go to cbtschool.com to learn more. Spread the love! Everyone needs tools for anxiety... If you like Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, visit YOUR ANXIETY TOOLKIT PODCAST to subscribe free and you'll never miss an episode. And if you really like Your Anxiety Toolkit, I'd appreciate you telling a friend (maybe even two). EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION This is Your Anxiety Toolkit - Episode 226. Welcome back, everybody. If you have health anxiety, hypochondria, health anxiety disorder, or you know of somebody who has health anxiety, you are going to love this episode. I mean, love, love, love this episode. Today, we have Ken Goodman, who's on the show. He's a clinician who's here with his patient and they're sharing a success story, a recovery story of health anxiety, and it is so good. I am so honored to have both of them on. It was so fun to actually interview other people and the way they're doing it, and look at the steps that were taken in order to overcome health anxiety. And this is the overcoming health anxiety story of all stories. It is so, so good. I'm not going to waste your time going and telling you how good it is. I'm just going to let you listen to it because I know you're here to get the good stuff. Before we do that, I wanted to do the “I did a hard thing” and this one is from Dave. It says: “I've been trying to get back into meditating regularly. I was sitting at a desk this morning, reviewing my work emails. And I told myself, before I get even further in my day, I need to meditate. I did a guided meditation, even though I felt a strong pull inside to go back to work. I kept getting caught up in my thoughts, but I just kept telling myself it doesn't need to be a perfect meditation. I said the goal today is just to be able to sit without being busy for three minutes. Nothing more. It was hard, but I did it.” Dave, thank you so much for the submission of the “I did a hard thing” segment, because I think that meditation is so important. In fact, I keep promising myself I'm going to implement it more into this podcast. And Dave has really looked at some of the struggles people have with meditation. And look at him, go, it's so amazing. Totally did it. So amazing. Dave, thank you so, so, so much. I love it. If you want to submit, you may submit your “I did a hard thing” by going to KimberleyQuinlan-lmft.com. If you go to the podcast page, there is a submission page right on the website. And from there, let's just go straight to the show. I hope you enjoy it. Kimberley: Welcome. I am so excited for this episode. Welcome, Ken and welcome, Maria. Ken: Thank you for having me. Maria: Hi, Kimberley. Kimberley: So, as you guys, we've already chatted, but I really want to hear. This is really quite unique and we get to see the perspective of a client and the therapist. If I could do one of these every single week, I would. I think it's so cool. So, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. We're going to talk about health anxiety. And so, Maria, we're going to go back and forth here, but do you want to share a little bit about your experience with health anxiety? Maria: Yes. I think I've had health anxiety probably for like 15, 20 years and not known about it. Looking back now, everything comes clear when you see the multiple pictures that you've taken of certain lumps and whatever five years ago. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I have so many pictures that I've taken and so many different things.” But yeah, I've been struggling for a while I think, and had multiple doctor's appointments. Until I realized that I had health anxiety, it was an everyday struggle, I think. Ken: Well, you came to me and you were mostly worried at the time about ticks and Lyme disease and skin cancer, but you told me that for the previous 15 years or so, you were worried about other things. What are those things? Maria: Well, I was mostly completely obsessed with moles on my skin and them being cancerous. And I was scared of ticks. I would not be able to walk through any grass or go hiking. I was scared that I would have to check my whole body to make sure that there were no ticks on me. I was completely scared of Lyme disease, and it just completely consumed my life really. And they were the main things. But looking back before that, I think that I always had a doctor's appointment on the go. I would book one, and as soon as they said, “You can book online,” That was it for me. I would have one booked, and then I'd go, “Oh, what if there's something else next week? You know what, I'm just going to book one for next week, just in case something comes up.” I am a terrible person when it comes to that because I'm taking up multiple doctor's appointments. And I knew that. But it was trying to reassure myself, trying to control the situation, trying to control next week already before it even happened. So, yeah. MARIA'S SYMPTOMS OF HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. What did it look like for you? What did a day look like for you pre-treatment and pre-recovery? Maria: Some days it could be fine. I remember days where nothing was bothering me. It was such a nice feeling. And then I was scared because I never knew what was going to trigger me and it could be anything at any time. And I think that was the not knowing. And then as soon as I would latch onto something, I would come to the phone, I'd start Googling over and over again, hours of Googling and then checking. And then it was just ongoing. And then my whole day, I was in my head my whole day, just what if, what if, asking questions, going back to Google, trying to find that reassurance that of course never happened. Ken: Yeah. You tell me that you would take pictures of your moles and then compare them with the cancerous moles online and do those things. Maria: Yeah. And I would book-- and interestingly enough, looking back now, I went through a phase of always having a doctor's appointment. And then I also went through a phase of completely avoiding the doctor as well, not wanting to go because I didn't want them to say something that I knew was going to trigger a whole host of anxiety. So, I've gone through multiple doctors. And then once you start the doctor's appointments, then you're on a roller coaster. Because you walk away from that appointment, never feeling, or for me, never feeling reassured. Or feeling reassured for maybe a few minutes, and then you leave, and then the anxiety kicks in. “Oh, I never asked them this,” or “Oh my gosh, well, what did that mean?” And then the what-ifs start again and you're back to square one. So then, you go, “Oh, no, I didn't try just what they said. I'm going to book another appointment and this doctor is going to be the doctor that reassures me.” MANAGING DOCTOR VISITS WITH HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: Right. Or sometimes a lot of clients will say to me like, “The doctor made a face. What did that face mean? They made a look and it was just for a second, but were they questioning their own diagnosis and so forth?” And I think that is really common as well. Ken: Well, the doctor will say anything and it could be something very simple like, “Okay, you're all good. I'll see you in six months.” And the person will leave thinking, “Why would he want me to come back in six months if nothing was wrong?” Maria: Well, that's interesting that you would say that because I think probably at my lowest point, I was keeping notes about my thought process and what I was feeling when I was actually going to the doctors or waiting for the results. And actually, I thought it might-- if I have a few minutes to read what I actually was going through in real-time, I know it's probably very relatable. Kimberley: I would love that. Maria: I had gone to basically a doctor's appointment, an annual one where I knew I was going to have to have blood tests. And they're the worst for me because the anticipation of getting the results is just almost worse than getting the results, even though-- Ken: Did you write this before we met? Maria: No. While I was seeing you, Ken. Ken: In the beginning? Maria: Yeah. When you'd asked me to write down everything and write down what I was feeling, what I was thinking, and then read it back to myself. And this is what I had written down, actually, when I was going through the doctor's appointment and waiting or had just gotten the results. Kimberley: If you would share, that'd be so grateful. Maria: So, my blood results came back today. I felt very nervous about opening them. The doctor wrote a note at the top. “Your blood results are mostly normal. Your cholesterol is slightly high, but no need for medication. Carry on with exercise and healthy eating.” “Mostly,” what does that mean? “Mostly”? I need to look at all the numbers and make sure that everything is in the normal range. “Okay, they're all in the normal range except for my cholesterol. But why does she write mostly? Is there something else that she's not telling me? I need reassurance. I'm driving down to the doctor's right now. I can't wait the whole weekend.” I go into the doctor's office and ask them, “Is there a doctor who's able to explain to me my results?” The receptionist said, “No, you have to make another appointment.” I explained to her, “You don't understand. I just need somebody to tell me that everything is normal.” Finally, this nice lady saw the anxiety on my face. She calls the doctor over to look at the labs. The receptionist shows the doctor the one lab panel, and he says, “Everything is completely normal. Nothing was flagged. Everything is completely fine.” I thank him so much for looking and walk away. As soon as I get outside, I realize I didn't ask him to look at all the lab panels. What if she meant mostly normal on the other lab panels that I didn't show him? When I get home, I look over each one multiple times and make sure that each one is in the exact number range. After looking over them four or five times and seeing that each one is in the number range except for my cholesterol, I still feel like I need to have her explain to me why she wrote the word “mostly.” The crazy thing is I'm not concerned about the high cholesterol. I can control that. I don't know what she meant by the word “mostly.” I'm going to send her a message. And I'm going to ask her to clarify. I have to believe that she would tell me if something was wrong. I wish there was an off button in my head to stop me worrying about this. Ken: I remember this now. I remember. And this was in the middle. Maria was really avoiding going to the doctor and she had overdue with some physical exams. And so, we really worked hard for her to stop avoiding that. She got to the point where she felt good enough about going to the doctor. And she really, I think I remember her not having any anticipatory anxiety, handling the doctor very well, host the doctor very well, until she got the email and focused on the word “mostly.” And that sent her spiraling out of control. But the interesting thing about that whole experience was that we processed it afterwards, and that whole experience motivated her to try even harder. And then she took even bigger strides forward. And within a couple of months, she was really doing so much better. And I think it's been over a year now since that and continues to do really well. Kimberley: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I actually was tearing up. Tears were starting to come because I was thinking, I totally get that experience. I'm so grateful you shared it because I think so many people do, right? Maria: Yeah. And there's always and/or. You go into the doctor's appointment, they tell you everything. And because your adrenaline is absolutely pumping, you forget everything. And then you come out and you go, “Oh my gosh, I can't remember anything.” Then the anxiety kicks in and tells you what the anxiety is like, “Oh no, that must have been bad. That must have been--” yeah. Ken: And that boost in adrenaline that just takes over is so powerful. You can forget any common sense or any therapeutic strategies or tools that you might have learned because now you just get preoccupied with one word, the uncertainty of that word. Maria: Yeah. I would have to have a family member come in, my husband to come in and sit in the-- it got to that point where he would have to come in and sit in the appointment, so then after the appointment, I could have him retell me what was said, because I knew as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, I would not be able to remember anything. ROADBLOCKS TO HEALTH ANXIETY TREATMENT Kimberley: Right. Ken, this brings me straight to the next question, which would be like, what roadblocks do you commonly see patients hit specifically if they have health anxiety during recovery or treatment? Ken: Well, unlike other fears and phobias, the triggers for health anxiety are very unpredictable. So, if you have a fear of elevators, flying or public speaking, you know when your flight is going to be, you know when you have to speak or you know when you have to drive if you have a fear of driving. For health anxiety, you never know when you're going to be triggered. And those triggers can be internal, like a physical sensation, because the body is very noisy. And everyone experiences physical sensations periodically and you never know when that's going to happen. And then you never know external triggers. You never know when the doctor is going to say something that might trigger you, or you see a social media post about a GoFundMe account about someone that you know who knows someone who's been diagnosed with ALS. So, you never know when these things are going to happen. And so, you might be doing well for a couple of weeks or even a month, and suddenly there's a trigger and you're right back to where you started from. And so, in that way, it feels very frustrating because you can do well and then you can start becoming extremely anxious again. Another roadblock I think might be if you need medicine, there's a fear of trying medicine because of potential for side effects and becomes overblown and what are the long-term side effects, and even if I take it, I'm going to become very anxious. And so, people then are not taking the very thing, the medicine that could actually help them reduce their anxiety. So, that's another roadblock. Kimberley: Yeah. I love those. And I think that they're by far the most hurdles. And Maria, you could maybe even chime in, what did you feel your biggest roadblock to recovery was? Maria: Being okay with the unknown. Trying to be in control all the time is exhausting and trying to constantly have that reassurance and coming to terms with, “It's okay if I can't control everything. It's okay if I don't get the 100% reassurance that I need. It's good enough,” that was hard for me. And also, not picking up the phone and Googling was the biggest. I think once I stopped that and I was okay with not looking constantly, that was a huge step forward. Ken: You really learn to live with uncertainty. And I think you start to understand that if you had to demand 100% certainty, you had to keep your anxiety disorder. In order to be 100% certain, that meant keep staying anxious. Kimberley: Yeah. Being stuck in that cycle forever. Ken: You didn't want that anymore. You wanted to focus on living your life rather than being preoccupied with preventing death. SKILLS AND TOOLS TO OVERCOME HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, I mean, that's probably, from my experience as a clinician, one of the most important skills, the ability to tolerate and be uncertain. Were there other specific tools that you felt were really important for your recovery at the beginning and middle and end, and as you continue to live your life? Maria: Yes. I think the biggest one was me separating my anxiety from myself, if that makes sense. Seeing it as a separate-- I don't even know, like a separate entity, not feeling like it was me. I had to look at it as something that was trying to control me, but I was fine. I needed to fight the anxiety. And separating it was hard in the beginning. But then I think once I really can help me to understand how to do that, at that point, I think I started to move forward a bit more. Kimberley: So, you externalized it. For me, I give it a name like Linda. “Hi, Linda,” or whatever name you want to give your anxiety. A lot of kids do that as well like Mr. Candyman or whatever. Maria: Yeah. It sat on my shoulder and try to get in my head. In the beginning, I would be brushing off my shoulder constantly. Literally, I must have looked crazy because I was brushing this anxiety off my shoulder every 10 minutes with another what-if. What if this? What if that? And I think I had to retrain my brain. I had to just start not believing and being distracted constantly by the “What if you do this” or “What if that?” and I'd say, “No, no.” Ken: Yeah. I'd treat a lot of health anxiety. I have a lot of health anxiety groups. And I do notice that the patients that can externalize their anxiety and personify it do way better than the people who have trouble with it. And so, whether it's a child or a teenager or an adult, I am having them externalize their anxiety. And I go into that, not only in my groups, but in the audio program I created called the Anxiety Solution Series. It is all about how to do that. And it makes things so much easier. If now you're not fighting with yourself, there's no internal struggle anymore because now you're just competing against an opponent who's outside of you. It makes things easier. Kimberley: Right. Yeah. And sometimes when that voice is there and you believe it to be you, it can make you feel a little crazy. But when you can externalize it, it separates you from that feeling of going crazy as well. Maria: I felt so much better as soon as I did that because I felt, “Okay, I think I can fight this. This isn't me. I'm not going crazy. This is something that I--” and I started to not believe. And it was long, but it was retraining my brain. And I would question the what-ifs and it didn't make sense to me anymore. Or I would write it down and then I would read it back to me, myself, and I'd be like, “That's ridiculous, what I just thought.” And the other tool which was hugely helpful was breathing, learning how to breathe properly and calm myself down. I mean-- Ken: Yeah. There's lots of different types of breathing out there. And so, I teach a specific type of breathing, which is, I call it Three by Three Relaxation Breathing, which is also in the Anxiety Solution Series. And it really goes over into detail, a very simple way to breathe that you can do it anywhere. You can do it in a waiting room full of people, because it's very subtle. It's not something where you're taking a big breath and people are looking at you. It's very, very subtle. You can do it anywhere. MEDITATION FOR HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Ken, just so that I understand, and also Maria, how does that help someone? For someone who has struggled with breathing or is afraid of meditation hor health anxiety and they've had a bad experience, how does the breathing specifically help, even, like you were saying, in a doctor's appointment office? Maria: I've done it actually in multiple doctor's appointments where I've had that feeling of, “I've got to get out of here now.” It's that feeling of, “Uh, no. Right now, I need to leave.” Before, before I started, I would leave. And now I realized, no, I'm not. I'm going to sit and I'm going to breathe. And no one notices. No one can see it. You can breathe and it really does calm me down, especially in the past, I've had panic attacks and feeling like I can't breathe myself. When you start to realized that you can control it and it does relax you, it really helps me a lot. I do it all the time. Kimberley: It's like a distress tolerance tool then, would you say? Maria: It's something that I can carry around with me all the time, because everyone needs to breathe. Kimberley: Yeah. I always say that your breath is free. It's a free tool. You could take it anywhere. It's perfect. Maria: Yeah. So, it's something that I can do for myself. I can rely on my breathing. And now knowing after Ken teaching me really how to do it properly, it's just invaluable. It really is, and empowering in a way. Now, when I feel like I can't be somewhere, and in fact just not so long ago, I was in a doctor's appointment, not for myself, but I sat there and it was really high up and there was lots of windows around. Of course, I don't like being [00:22:34 inaudible]. And I felt I have to get out. “Nope, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.” I sat there, I did my breathing. I actually put my earphones in and started listening to Ken's anxiety solutions and listened and took my mind off of it, and I was fine. I didn't leave. And actually, I walked away feeling empowered afterwards. So, it's huge. It's really helpful. Ken: Yeah. You just said a couple of very important things. You made a decision not to flee, so you decided right there, “I'm not going anywhere. So, I'm going to stay here. I'm going to tolerate that discomfort, but I'm going to focus on something else. I'm going to focus on my breathing. I'm going to listen to the Anxiety Solution Series.” And then by doing that, I'm assuming your anxiety either was contained, it stayed the same, or maybe it was reduced. Yeah? Maria: Yeah, it was reduced. It stayed the same. And then it started to reduce. And naturally, by the end, I was like, “I'm fine. Nothing is going to happen.” So, it was great. And the other-- I want to say actually one more thing that really, really helped me. And it was actually a turning point, was that I was in another appointment. The doctor came in and told me I was fine. And it was actually like an appointment where they had called me back medically. So, it was a different scenario. It wasn't me creating something in my head. But anyway, there was a lot of anticipation beforehand and he came in and he said, “You are fine. Go live your life.” And I walked away and I went home. And within maybe about 40 minutes, I said, “Maybe he was lying to me. Maybe he was just trying to make me feel good because he saw how anxious I was.” And at that point I realized, this is never going to stop, never. Unless I fight back, I will never-- I felt robbed of the relief that I should have felt. When he told me that, I wasn't getting that relief and I was never going to have that relief unless I used-- and at that point, I actually got angry. And I remember telling Ken, I was like, “I'm so angry because I felt robbed of the relief.” And at that point, I think I then kicked up my practicing of everything tenfold. And that was a turning point for me. Ken: Yeah. That anger really helped you. And anxiety is a very, very powerful emotion, but if you can access or manufacture a different emotion, a competing emotion, and anger is just one of them, you can often mitigate the anxiety. You can push through it. And for you, it was an invaluable resource, because it was natural. You actually felt angry. For other people, they have to manufacture it and get really tough with their anxiety. But for you, you at that moment naturally felt it. And you're right. You said it is never going to stop. And physical sensations, the body is noisy. People will have the rest of their life. You're going to have a noisy body. So, that will never stop. It's your reaction and your response to those physical sensations that is key. And you learn how to respond in a much more healthy way to whenever you got any sort of trigger external or internal. TREATMENT FOR HEALTH ANXIETY/HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: It's really accepting that you don't have control over anxiety. So, taking control where you have it, which is over your reactions. And I agree, I've had many clients who needed to hit rock bottom for a certain amount of time and see it play out and see that the compulsions didn't work to be like, “All right, I have to do something different. This is never going to end.” And I think that that insight too can be a real motivator for treatment of like, “I can't get the relief. It doesn't end up lasting and I deserve that like everybody else.” So, Ken, how do you see as a clinician the differences in recovery and treatment for different people? Do you feel like it's the same for everybody, or do you see that there are some differences depending on the person? Ken: Well, when I treat people with health anxiety, although the content of their specific fears might be different – some might worry more about their heart, some might worry more about shaking that they experience and worry about ALS – the treatment is basically the same, which is why I can treat them in classes or groups because it's basically the same. There are some variations. Some people are more worried about things, where other people feel more physical sensations. And I may have to tailor that a bit. So, some people have to-- their problems are more the physical sensations that they feel and they can't tolerate those physical sensations. And other people it's more mental. They're just constantly worried about things. But in general, they can be treated very similarly. It's learning how to tolerate both the uncertainty and the discomfort and the stress that they feel. Kimberley: Right. And I'll add, I think the only thing that I notice as a difference is some people have a lot of insight about their disorder and some don't. Some are really able to identify like, “Ah, this is totally Linda, my anxiety,” or whatever you want to name your anxiety. “This is my anxiety doing this.” Whereas some people I've experienced as a clinician, every single time it is cancer in their mind and they have a really hard time believing anything else. Like you said, they feel it to be true. Do you agree with that? Ken: Completely. Yeah. Some people will come to me and they know it's probably anxiety, but they're not sure. And some people, they are thoroughly convinced that they have that disease or that disorder. And even after months and months and months of-- and oftentimes the content changes. So, I have patients who, when I first start seeing them, they might be afraid of cancer. And then two months later, it's their heart. And then a couple of months later after that, it's something else. There's always something that can come up and they're always believing it's something medical. And of course, they go back to, “Well, what if this time it is? What if this time it is cancer?” And that's where they get caught in the trap. So, for them, it's answering that question. For Maria, it's the word “mostly” that she became fixated on to get lured in and take the bait. It's like, what happens to a fish that takes the bait? Now they're struggling. So, now once you take the bait, you're struggling. Kimberley: Right. And I would say, I mean, I'll personally explain. A lot of my listeners know this, but I'll share it with you guys. I have a lesion on the back of my brain that I know is there. And I have an MRI every six months. And I have a lot of clients who have a medical illness and they have health anxiety, and it's really managing, following the doctor's protocol, but not doing anything above and beyond that because it's so easy to be like, “Well, maybe I'll just schedule it a little earlier because it is there and I really should be keeping an eye on it.” And that has been an interesting process for me with the medical illness to tweak the treatment there as well. Ken: Yes, absolutely. I have a patient right now and she has a legitimate heart issue that is not dangerous. They've had many, many tests, but all of a sudden, her heart will just start racing really fast, just out of the blue. And it happens randomly and seems like stress exacerbates the frequency of it. But it's not just irritating for her, it was scary because every time she would experience it, she thought, “Maybe this is it. I'm having a heart attack.” But she really had to learn to tolerate that discomfort, that it was going to happen sometimes and that was okay. It happens and you just have to learn to live with it. Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, this is the question I'm most excited about asking you. Tell me now what a doctor's appointment looks like for you. Maria: It looks a lot better. You can actually pick up the phone and book an appointment now without avoiding it. I practice everything that I've learned. I'm not going to lie. The anticipation, maybe a couple of days before, is still there. However, it's really not as bad as it was before. I mean, before, I would be a complete mess before I even walked into the doctor's office. Now, I can walk in and I'm doing my breathing and I'm not asking multiple questions. I'm now okay with trusting what the doctor has to say. Whereas before, if I didn't like what he had to say or he didn't say exactly the way I wanted to hear it, I'd go to another doctor. But now, I'm okay with it. And it's still something I don't necessarily want to do. But leaps and bounds better. Leaps and bounds really. I can go in by myself, have a doctor's appointment, ask the regular questions and say, “Give me the answers,” and leave and be okay with it. GETTING TEST RESULTS WITH HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: How do you tolerate the times between the test and the test results? How do you work through that? Because sometimes it can take a week. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's a long time. Maria: Yeah. I mean, I haven't-- so, obviously, it's yearly. So, I'm at that point next year where I will have to go and have all my tests again and get the results and anticipate. But I think for me, the biggest thing is distraction and trying not to focus too much beforehand and staying calm and relaxed. And that's really it. I mean, there's always going to be anxiety there for me, I think, going to the doctors. It's not ever going to go away. I'm okay with that. But it's learning how to keep it at a point where I can understand what they're telling me and not make it into something completely different. Ken: I think you said the keywords – where you're putting your focus. So, before, your focus was on answering those what-if questions and the catastrophic possible results. And now I think your focus is on just living your life, just going about living your life and not worrying or thinking about what the catastrophic possibilities could be. Is that accurate? Would you say it's accurate? Maria: Yeah. Because if you start going down that road of what-if, you're already entering that zone, which it is just, you're never going to get the answer that you want. And it's hard because sometimes I would sit and say to myself, “I'm going to logically think this out.” And I would pretend. I mean, I even mentioned to Ken, “No, no, I'm logically thinking this out. This is what anyone would do. I'm sat there and I'm working out in my head.” And he said, “You've already engaged. You've already engaged with the anxiety.” “Have I?” And he said, “Yeah. By working it out in your head, you're engaging with the anxiety.” And that was a breakthrough as well because I thought to myself after, “I am.” I'm already wrapped up in my head logically thinking that I'm not engaging, but I'm completely engaging. So, that was an interesting turning point as well, I think. Kimberley: Amazing. You've come a long, long, long way. I'm so happy to hear that. Ken, before we wrap up, is there anything that you feel people need to know or some major points that you want to give or one key thing that they should know if they have health anxiety? Ken: Oh my gosh, there are so many. There is a tendency for people with all types of anxiety to really focus their attention on the catastrophic possibilities instead of the odds of those catastrophic possibilities happening. The odds are incredibly low. And so, if you're focusing on the fact that it's probably not likely that this is going to happen, then you'll probably go through your life and be okay if you can focus your attention on living your life. But if you focus on those catastrophic possibilities that are possible, they are, then you're going to go through life feeling very, very anxious. And if you focus on trying to prevent death, prevent suffering, then you're not really living your life. Kimberley: That's it right there. That's the phrase of the episode, I think, because I think that's the most important key part. I cannot thank you both enough for coming on. Ken: This is fun. This is great. Maria: It was fun. Kimberley: Maria, your story is so inspiring and you're so eloquent in how you shared it. I teared up twice during this episode just because I know that feeling and I just love that you've done that work. So, thank you so much for sharing. Ken: Yeah. She's really proof that someone who's suffered for 15, 20, some odd years with anxiety can get better. They just have to be really determined and really apply the strategies and be consistent. She did a great job. Kimberley: Yeah. Massive respect for you, Maria. Maria: Oh, thank you. Kimberley: Amazing. Ken, before we finish up, do you have any-- you want to share with us where people can hear from you or get access to your good stuff? Ken: Yeah. So, quietmindsolutions.com, I have a whole bunch of information on health anxiety. I have two webinars in health anxiety on that website, as well as other webinars in other specialties I have. Also, I have the Anxiety Solution Series, which is a 12-hour audio program, which focuses on all types of anxiety, including health anxiety, as well as others. And you can listen to a few chapters for free just to see if you would like it, if you could relate to it. And there's other programs, other articles, and videos that I produced. I have a coloring self-help book, which is basically a self-help for people with anxiety, but every chapter has a coloring illustration where you color. And the coloring illustration actually-- what's the word I'm looking for? It's basically a representation of what you learn in that chapter. It strengthens what you learn in that chapter. Kimberley: Cool. Ken: Yeah. And then a book called The Emetophobia Manual, which is a book for people who have fear of vomiting. Kimberley: Amazing. And we'll have all those links in the show notes for people as well. So, go to the show notes if you're interested in getting those links. Ken: Ken Goodman Therapy is the other website. It has similar information. Maria: I wanted to mention as well that I actually watched one of Ken's webinars quite by accident in the beginning before I realized I had health anxiety. And after watching it, I thought, “Oh my gosh, I've got that.” And so, it was hugely, hugely helpful because I think that having this for so many years and not realizing, there's a lot of people that still don't realize that they suffer from health anxiety. For me, as soon as I could label it as something, it was a relief because now I could find the tools and the help to work on it and get that relief. Kimberley: Amazing. Okay. Well, my heart is so full. Thank you both for coming on. It's really a pleasure to hear this story. So inspiring. So, thank you. Ken: Yeah. Thank you for doing this, Kimberley. Maria: Thank you. Ken: And thanks, Maria. ----- Thank you so much for listening. Before we finish up, we're going to do the review of the week. This is from kdeemo, and they said: “This podcast is a gift. I just found this podcast and I'm binging on the episodes. I learn something through each episode, and love her practical advice and tools. I feel like part of a community-what a gift!” Oh, I'm so, so grateful to have you kdeemo in our community. This is a beautiful, beautiful space. My hope is that it's different to every other podcast you listen to in that we give you a little bit of tools, a little bit of tips, but a huge degree of love and support and compassion and encouragement. So, thank you so much for your review. I love getting your reviews. It helps me to really double down in my mission here to give as many practical free tools as I can. It is true, it is a gift to be able to do that. So, if you could please leave a review, I would be so, so grateful. You can click wherever you're listening and leave a review there. Have a wonderful day.

We are at the end right before the beginning.  The Moon is Full in exacting Virgo with many planets anchored opposite in the boundless realm of Pisces March 18, 2022.  This is compassionate, courageous, discerning, supremely creative energy.  What you can conceive of you can achieve.  But before we begin this new season of quantum growth what will you let go of? What will you toss in the burning pile? March 20th the Equinox lifts us up to a new level. We are in the middle of a magical transformation. Can you feel it? The frequency is shifting. We access it by tuning in. Reaching for the light - Like a plant. The Full Moon in Virgo is hungry to know it all.  It needs to know the truth.  To illuminate what's not working and make it right.  Sitting opposite of this Full moon is a planetary powwow in empathic Pisces. We are all supremely sensitive.  This can make us escapist.  Don't allow it.  Your exquisite ability to feel it all is what informs you of the truth. Allow your feelings validation. Honor the nonlinear parts of yourself.   Float in a tub. Stare into the fire. Snuggle under the coziest of blankets with your lovelies. Listen to music and feel into the magic of the simple pleasures of living.  It's from this relaxed state that we can receive all that we need for our next phase of action to take us to the highest expression of reality. The Virgo Moon can help you know what is right for you, what is true for you and your bio-suite. Your body and your home benefit from a major clean up. Virgo loves the nooks and crannies. Clean your keyboard with a q-tip. Get that toothbrush out for the grout. Do your taxes. Edit your words.  Make a plan, It will be a good solid plan you can trust.  A wise plan.   The Spring Equinox- This is the beginning. We can thrust ourselves out there now, Like tulips and daffodils. So certain and purposeful. Just beautiful. You are just beautiful. What will you intend for this new year? Plant the seeds - It's go time. The Spring Equinox is the great initiating energy of your whole year. The seeds you plant now are powerfully supported by the cosmos. During this Equinox- The power of the growing light Helps you grow things too. It's also a Perfect time to cleanse your life of all the old and no longer useful. Ask yourself, Do you need it? Do you use it? Do you Love it? If not - out it goes. Its powerful to plant seeds- Literally, to offer something to this mother earth and symbolize the new situations growing in your life. In 6 weeks at Beltane- you can expect to see the new Appear- this is  a time to celebrate the obvious newness. Like yay, we did it! Our seeds are sprouting.   At the end of April we begin our journey through the Eclipse portal. We are gonna be so transformed this year. Embrace the lessons and learning. Follow the whisper of your silenced heart. It will lead you to soo soo much Love. “What you seek is seeking you”. Ephempers.co offers a most Unique and beautiful gift of your own personal birth chart. Use the link to use the discount and learn more https://glnk.io/587l/hillory-skott      You can take the Everyday Astrology Podcast with you anywhere! subscribe on iTunes or Google Play to get every episode automatically. Please be sure to leave us a review as well! If you would like to find out more about your chart or have a question about astrology you would love the answer to, please do connect with me at hilloryskott@protonmail.com to inquire.  

Happy Match Week! In this replay episode, Lara speaks with an anonymous couple who share their experience when they did not match to a residency program. They participated in the scramble, applied for research positions, and finally ended up where they needed to be as they embraced the journey. *The couple will be known as Jack and Lisa in this episode. Names are changed for privacy. “I applied to all the surgical subspecialties. I applied to prelim surgery spots. I applied to prelim medicine spots. I applied to anesthesia spots. I applied to EM spots. All of them. Literally every single open spot. Like I said, I think it was over 100 spots that I applied to.  So, anyways, it was a really stressful time. Very hard time.” -Anonymous 

What you'll learn in this episode: How David earned the nickname the “100-carat man” for selling some of the most expensive jewels in history What type of buyers are interested in eight-figure gems How David got the opportunity to write “Understanding Jewelry” with Daniela Mascetti Why the most incredible jewelry may be off the beaten path Why 18th century jewelry is so rare, and why people have refashioned old jewelry throughout history   About David Bennett Regarded internationally as a leading authority in the field of precious stones and jewelry, David Bennett is best known in his role as Worldwide Chairman of Sotheby's Jewelry Division, a post he held until 2020, after a brilliant 42 years career at Sotheby's. During his prestigious career David sold three of the five most expensive jewels in auction history and as well as seven 100-carat diamonds – earning him the nickname the ‘100-carat man'. David has also presided over many legendary, record-breaking auctions such as the Jewels of the Duchess of Windsor (1987), The Princely Collections of Thurn und Taxis (1992) and Royal Jewels from the Bourbon-Parma Family (2018). Among the many records achieved during his career as an auctioneer is that for the highest price ever paid for a gemstone, the CTF Pink Star, a 59.60ct Vivid Pink diamond which sold for $71.2 million in 2017, and the world record for any jewelry sale where he achieved a total of $175.1 million in May 2016. David was named among the top 10 most powerful people in the art world in December 2013 by the international magazine Art + Auction. In June 2014, Swiss financial and business magazine Bilan named him among the top 50 “most influential people in Switzerland”. David Bennett is co-author, with Daniela Mascetti, of the best-selling reference book Understanding Jewelry, in print since 1989. They have also co-written Celebrating Jewelry, published in 2012. In 2021, David and Daniela launched a unique website showcasing their unparalleled experience and knowledge in the field of jewelry. David Bennett grew up in London and graduated from university with a degree in Philosophy, a subject about which he is still passionate, alongside alchemy and hermetic astrology. Additional Resources: Website: https://www.understanding-jewellery.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/understandingjewellery/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UnderstandingJewellery Twitter: https://twitter.com/UJewellery_ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/19192787 Transcript: Whether you know his name or not, David Bennett is responsible for some of the most significant jewelry auctions in history. Before retiring from Sotheby's in 2020, David sold the Pink Star, the most expensive gem ever sold at auction, and whopping seven 100-carat diamonds. He's also the co-author of the jewelry bible “Understanding Jewelry” with his colleague Daniela Mascetti. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about his new business with Daniela; what it was like to handle some of the world's most precious jewels; and why he thinks gemstones hold incredible power. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. Here at the Jewelry Journey, we're about all things jewelry. With that in mind, I wanted to let you know about an upcoming jewelry conference, which is “Beyond Boundaries: Jewelry of the Americas.” It's sponsored by the Association for the Study of Jewelry and Related Arts, or, as it's otherwise known, ASJRA. The conference takes place virtually on Saturday and Sunday May 21 and May 22, which is around the corner. For details on the program and the speakers, go to www.jewelryconference.com. Non-members are welcome. I have to say that I attended this conference in person for several years, and it's one of my favorite conferences. It's a real treat to be able to sit in your pajamas or in comfies in your living room and listen to some extraordinary speakers. So, check it out. Register at www.jewelryconference.com. See you there.   This is a two-part Jewelry Journey podcast. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it comes out later this week. Today, my guest is David Bennett, who you may be familiar with. He coauthored with Daniela Mascetti what is often referred to as the bible of the jewelry industry, and that is the ubiquitous book “Understanding Jewelry.” David spent his 40-year career at the international auction house Sotheby's. When he left, he held the position of Worldwide Chairman of International Jewelry. He's a veteran of gemstones and is often called the “100-carat man” because of his multiple sales of hundred-carat diamonds at record-breaking prices.    He and Daniela just published “Understanding Jewelry: The 20th Century.” They've also launched an online business, UnderstandingJewelry.com, which encompasses education, appraisals, travel and more. In his spare time, he is a part-time lecturer in philosophy, and he's also an astrologer. We'll hear more about his extraordinary jewelry journey today. David, welcome to the program.   David: A pleasure.   Sharon: So glad to have you. Tell us about your jewelry journey, how you became involved with jewelry and how you joined Sotheby's. It's an interesting story.   David: As you've already mentioned, I graduated in philosophy. Most people are rather surprised about that. It's a wonderful thing to study. It was a long time ago in the distant past. I graduated in 1973. I wanted, after university, to go to the London Film School because I've always been interested in film as a medium, but my father, who was basically a Victorian, thought that Hollywood was not the sort of thing for a young gentleman. He cunningly invited me for lunch with a friend of his who was a director at Sotheby's. He painted Sotheby's so glamorously, I might say, more than anything else, and he invited me to come on a one-year training in all the things that Sotheby's sold, from contemporary art to silver. I thought, “Oh, O.K., that's another year of education.” It was the beginning of many years of education, but I thought I'd try that.   In May of the following year, Britain and most of the world had fallen into disastrous economic times. London was working a three-day week because there wasn't electricity to power it. It's amazing when you think of it. Of course, as a result, there were very few jobs, so for the first time in my life until that point, I suddenly thought, “I'd better get about what I'm going to do.” Literally, I hadn't thought about it. I thought, “Well, something will come up, maybe a lecturer in philosophy.”    So, in this very difficult environment, my father's friend came to me and said, “Look, David, I've got a job for you.” I said, “Great, what is it?” He said, “It's in the jewelry department,” and I said, “The jewelry department. I don't even know how to spell sapphire. Is it two p's or one?” He said, “You'll love it. They have sales. They just started having sales in Switzerland. There's a lot of travel, and you'll be getting in at the ground floor of very interesting subjects.” I was very skeptical about it, but he said, “Look, more important than anything else, you need a job because the world's going into a very difficult time.” In fact, he turned out to be right, because it was at least 15 years before we started to get out of this massive crisis at the time. So, I took the job and that's how I got into it. It was sort of through the back door.    I knew nothing about jewelry, absolutely nothing about jewelry. It was a huge learning curve, a huge apprenticeship. I think I mentioned to you that I went out early on and bought some sheets of gold and silver. I learned how to work with the metal and how difficult it is to set a stone in a ring. I wanted to know about everything. I wanted to know about Roman jewelry, Greek jewelry. I thought, “If I'm going to spend my whole life doing this, I don't want to have any bits that I don't know at least something about.”    So, that's how I began. As always in careers, you get a lot of lucky breaks. People seemed to like me, which is very surprising, so there you are. I got quickly promoted, and my first big job was running the London Jewelry Department. That was in 1984. I took my first auction in 1979. The big break after that was that I was promoted to head of jewelry in Europe and the Middle East in 1989. I moved with that promotion to Geneva, which was a great move, a wonderful place. Then I started having to make my mark. I was in a highly competitive environment. Christie's the main competitor. It's an extremely good company as well.   We ran sales in Geneva. My principal sales were in Geneva twice a year and once at St. Moritz in the winter, at which we competed to do the largest turnover and the biggest, record-breaking sales and the biggest, record-breaking stones and so on. It was a great time, and I continued doing that until two years ago when I retired. By then, I'd become Worldwide Chairman of Sotheby's. During this career, I was very lucky because I saw some of the greatest jewels in the world. I still hold the world record for the most expensive diamond ever sold at more than $70 million. I sold the most expensive ruby ever sold for more than $30 million. There were so many wonderful collections, like the Windsor Sale in 1987, which is what made my name really. The jewels of the Duchess of Windsor are still the most incredible auction. So, it was a combination of determination and lucky breaks. Everybody's career is like this.   Sharon: What were your thoughts the first time you looked at a 100-carat? Was it, “Oh, there's another diamond?” or was it “Oh my god, how could that be?”   David: The first time I saw one was in the summer of 1990. I had just arrived in Geneva. I put together my first sale, really, in Geneva, and I wanted to make a mark, to do something that nobody else had done. I can see it now. In those days, I was in this splendid Medieval chateau in the middle of nowhere in France, and I got a phone call. In those days, mobile phones were virtually unheard of, so it was a big thing like a brick, and this chap said, “I've heard about you. I've got a very important stone I'd like you to come and see. Would you be able to come to Antwerp to meet me?” In those days, the answer was always yes. So, I left my family there and took a plane right to Antwerp.    This young chap, about the same age as me, passed a little bag across the table, and there was the first hundred carats of the Pashe Stone. Extraordinary. It was D color, internally flawless, actually like a piece of ice. It was absolutely crystal clear. I fell in love with it, so he said, “Do you think you could sell it?” I said I had absolutely no idea, but I'd love to try. He said it was $12 million. I can't remember the exact figures for it. That was probably nearly double what any other diamond had ever sold for, but in the beginning when you take risks, you're very comfortable.    When I got home that night, my wife said to me, “You look worried. What's the matter?” I said, “Well, I think I may have made the biggest mistake of my career.” She said, “What?” I said, “I've taken a diamond worth $12 to 15 million.” And she said, “You're kidding me.” I said, “No.” And then she said that awful question that began to haunt me: “Who would you be selling it to?” At that point, I didn't know. I had three months to find somebody. I remember it was rather amusing because the timing could not have been worse. A week after that—you're just about old enough, I think, to remember—Hussein invaded Kuwait. Do you remember?   Sharon: Yes.   David: You may remember what happened, because I remember it vividly. The world went into shock. Markets dropped. In Switzerland—can you believe it—we all had to suddenly take rations into our air raid shelters. I thought, “Oh, that's that, then. At least it lets me off the hook. Maybe he doesn't expect it to sell now.” Either way, it was a bit of a relief.    After this, I decided to start taking it around the world a bit. I took it to certain countries in the Middle East and began showing it to possible clients. One chap, I'll never forget it, came in and said, “Sir, can I see the stone?” and I said, “By all means.” He's looking at the stone, and I'm thinking, “He's been looking for a long time. Honestly, he really seems to like it.” So, I said, “Sir, are you buying for your wife?” There's a young man talking; my naivete. He looked at me with a slight grin and he said, “No.” So, I said, “For somebody else, then?” He said, “No, it's for nobody.” I said, “You want it because you think it's an investment?” He said, “Maybe partly, yes.” I said, “What's the main reason?” He said—it's something that's stuck in my mind ever since—“How can I put $14 million in my pocket any other way?” Maybe uranium. You'd still need a lead box, but it was an extraordinary thought. When you've got war around, this sort of thing matters, doesn't it? It's portable value. Throughout history, for the last 4,000 years, jewelry has also been used for that specific purpose because it's very portable.    So, I get up on the rostrum. I have no idea that I'm going to sell it. I think there were 200 lots before the final lot with this 100-carat diamond. The sale was going quite well. I opened the lot. I think I opened at $8 million. There wasn't much interest at all when they start bidding. Suddenly, right at the back of the room, this chap started waving his hand. I took the bids from him and knocked it down for him, “Sold!” All the cameras and TV stations and radios in the room are approaching the rostrum where I was standing. Of course, the first question to me is, “Who's the buyer?” Now, I looked at the back of the room, and the man who had raised his hand, as I was being asked the question, was moving very quickly out of the back of the room. I said, “Oh my god!” because that was the worst possible thing that could have happened in those days. This was before you had to register to bid. It could have been some sort of maniac. So, I quickly got my colleagues sitting beside me. I said, “Run after him. Find out who it is.” Luckily, they found him as he was leaving the hotel where we had been holding the sale. He was in fact the driver, the chauffeur, of the buyer. So, I was lucky that I was able to announce the buyer.   That was the first of many extraordinary experiences with highly valued stones, pink diamonds, blue diamonds. They make millions and millions. Within 10 or 15 years, $12 million had been dwarfed by bigger stones and higher-value things. It was an extraordinary career when I look back at it. I'm quite busy doing what I'm doing now, to be honest with you. There comes a point where something like that, that is so unpredictable—you don't know what the next stone is going to be, what the next collection is going to be—you suddenly start thinking, “Actually, I've done that. I'd like to do something else.” That's when Daniela and I, about two years ago, decided we would retire. We were above the age we were expected to do that, so we set up this company, which so far has been great fun.    Sharon: You mean your online company, UnderstandingJewelry.com.   David: Yeah.   Sharon: Did you decide to write the book and then it occurred to you to do this?   David: No, the history of the book is a thing in itself. Believe or not, I'm thinking back to 1986. I got a phone call. I'm in the office and this chap was on the phone. He said, “Mr. Bennett?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “I'm so-and-so. I'm from a publishing company. I'd like to take you for lunch,” and I said, “O.K.” We fixed it for a week's time. We arrived at this restaurant, and he said, “Thank you. Now, I'll explain why I want to see you,” and as he did so, he slid across the table an envelope. He said, “Have a look inside.” Inside in the envelope was a check for a man who just had his second baby, a check for the sort of sum of money that makes you think. I said, “What is this for?” because I was suspicious. He said, “That's an advance, because you're going to write me a book, and it's going to be called ‘Understanding Jewelry.' Amazing, isn't it?” I said, “Really?” and he said, “Well, what do you think?” I said, quite candidly, “That amount of money is quite persuasive. Let me think about it.” I thought about it for a couple of days and said yes, and he said, “O.K., I want the first manuscript within a year,” and they published the book within two years.     When I got back to the office, I said, “Goodness me, O.K. Well, you'd better get started.” I began quickly to realize that I wasn't going to be able to do this on my own because I had so many other things going on. Daniela was working with me in London at that time, so I approached her because she's a real academic. She loves research and everything else, so I said, “Look, would you be interested?” and she said, “Yeah, absolutely. Let's do it.” That's where it began.    It took about two years to write it. In those days, writing a book like that was much more complicated because when you put the book together, you have the negatives of everything, and you can imagine there were a huge number of photographs in the book. Each one of them had to be printed. It's not like nowadays, where you have digital photographs. It was a massive task, and without Daniela it would never have been written. We brought it out in the autumn of 1989, just as I was leaving to go live in Switzerland, and it was a huge success right from the word go. We thought, “We'll sell a few copies.” In fact, it's been incredible. They're saying it's the largest selling hardback book in jewelry in the world. It's been around so long.    Sharon: It wouldn't surprise me. I know you've had several updates.   David: And 10 reprints, separate editions in Russian, Japanese, Italian, Hungarian, even. It's been great. In 2012, we decided that we'd become old and ugly enough to think about another book, so we wrote one for ourselves called “Celebrating Jewelry,” which was done for our own pleasure. We just chose items that we'd sold throughout our careers and wrote a book about it. That was also celebrating the new photography that was available. “Understanding Jewelry: The 20th Century” came out at the end of last year. It's selling very well. We're working now on another book, “Understanding Jewelry: The 19th Century.” We're both looking forward to it, as it's one of our favorite periods of the history of jewelry.   Sharon: What made you decide to write “Understanding Jewelry: The 20th Century?” What made you decide it was time to write another book?    David: It was very simple, actually, because “Understanding Jewelry” runs a timeline. It begins from about 1750 and runs all the way through to when it was written, the late 20th century. With 20 years of hindsight about the 20th century, we're a little bit distant; we have a little bit of perspective about it. We thought the obvious thing to do was to complete the last two decades of the 20th century with the best of hindsight and everything else. It became clear to us that we'd like to do that also to the 19th century. So, we decided to have two new volumes which go into more depth about each of the time periods.   Sharon: Did you decide to launch the online business when you were writing the book? Did you think, “Oh, this would make a great business online?” or had you already thought about doing an online business?   David: I was thinking about it with what's happened in the last 10 or 15 years in our careers. What became quite clear to me was the power of the internet, particularly, for example, on the auction business. 20 years ago, you would have had virtually no bids coming online because they wouldn't be online. Even before I left two years ago, huge portions of the sale were being sold to online bidders, very often people who'd never seen a piece of jewelry that was being sold. It seemed to me that there was this opportunity for us to offer a service to people who were collectors of jewelry, but weren't able to see the jewels themselves. A lot of the new collectors are, as you know, from the Far East and, increasingly and in very recent times, from mainland China. What I think people need in this new online world is—we wanted to offer a sort of endorsement. We wanted to be able to say that we think this is a wonderful piece of jewelry. We've seen it. We've handled it.    We have this section to bring out very shortly, in the next month or so, beginning with London and Geneva and then New York and other cities, looking at what's on offer within the trade. We call it “Hidden Treasures,” because a lot of the great jewelry retailers or specialized retailers are not shop fronts on Madison Avenue or on Wall Street. You have to know where they are, and we've chosen pieces in their retailers to write about. We're not owned by price; we're not trying to sell them. It's just to say that these are great pieces; have a look at them. See what you think, and we offer other services that offset our evaluation services.    This summer in June, we're starting our first tour. It starts in Burgundy, where I'm sitting now, at my property in Burgundy, and then we move to Paris. We're going to take a group of 12 or 14 collectors. It'll be lectures and visits. Hopefully, the idea is that it'll be nearly a week of entertainment but also study. It's meant to be a learning thing as well as being entertaining. We're going to visit some great restaurants around here, great restaurants in Paris. We're going to visit the remaining French crown jewels. We've also been invited by some of the major historic jewel companies, Cartier, Boucheron, Valeria, so we'll be taking this group there to have an insider's look at these companies. This particular course, which will be between Burgundy and Paris, as I said, will feature jewelry from 1880 to World War II, so Belle Epoque, the Gaden style and Art Déco very roughly. It will be quite an intense six days I think, speckled with fun.    Sharon: I'm sure. It sounds very intense. It sounds like somebody would learn a lot. 

After special prosecutor John Durham filed a document claiming that a tech executive "exploited" internet traffic data to find derogatory information about Donald Trump, the allegation instantly set off a furor on the political right."The most striking example I recall hearing was Jesse Watters on Fox saying that Durham had disclosed that Hillary Clinton paid people to hack into Donald Trump's home and office computers in order to plant evidence of Russian collusion," the Cato Institute's senior fellow Julian Sanchez recalled on the latest episode of Law&Crime's podcast "Objections: with Adam Klasfeld."Describing Watters's assertion as "impressive" in its falsehood, Sanchez added: "Literally no part of that sentence is correct."Specializing in issues of technology and civil liberties, Sanchez explains on the podcast that the actual story buried beneath the mound of overheated rhetoric is a thorny problem of privacy in an age of bulk data analysis.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Starbucks' iconic cup is the must-have-bev-accessory, but they just announced a bold move to phase them out: Re-Cup or De-Cup. AMC Theaters is sitting on $2B cash so it's doing what any movie company would do… invest in a small Nevada gold mine. And Lockheed Martin just sold a fleet of F-35 fighter jets to Germany because we're in a new phase of fortressing. $SBUX $AMC $HYMC $LMT Got a SnackFact? Tweet it @RobinhoodSnacks @JackKramer @NickOfNewYork Want a shoutout on the pod? Fill out this form: https://forms.gle/KhUAo31xmkSdeynD9 Got a SnackFact for the pod? We got a form for that too: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe64VKtvMNDPGSncHDRF07W34cPMDO3N8Y4DpmNP_kweC58tw/viewform Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are Traci and Ellie, two bookish friends who talk in any spare minute that we have.  This week we are discussing some new releases - March Madness style!  To shop the books listed in this episode, visit our shop at bookshop.org.   Literally Reading: A River Enchanted by Rebecca Ross (Traci) Unmissing by Minka Kent (Ellie) Find Me by Alafair Burke (Traci)  The Star-Crossed Sisters of Tuscany by Lori Nelson Spielman (Ellie) Crack the Book Open:  Something Wilder by Christina Lauren Book Lovers by Emily Henry Part of Your World by Abby Jimenez Love on the Brain by Ali Hazelwood One Night on the Island by Josie Silver Flying Solo by Linda Holmes The Maid by Nita Prose The Paris Apartment by Lucy Foley The Island by Adrian McKinty The New Neighbor by Karen Cleveland Tokyo Dreaming by Emiko Jean Rivals by Katharine McGee Upgrade by Blake Crouch Forging Silver into Stars by Brigid Kemmerer Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin Just Like Home by Sarah Gaily 

On today's episode, Rabbi Daniel Lapin reveals a 20-minute exercise that will help you improve your communication skills. When you improve your ability to speak and articulate, your ability to build relationships, handle objections, and make sales rises as well. Try it out. Twenty minutes. Three days a week. It'll pay off. Literally.Source: Financial Summit '16 - Session 5 - Rabbi Daniel LapinGet your FREE copy of The Course Cure here. Hosted by Sean CroxtonFollow me on InstagramListen to my new Mindset Coach podcast! Want ad-free episodes? Visit your App Store and download the Stitcher app. Join Stitcher Premium and listen to QOD commercial-free!

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but how much of our perception of what we perceive as 'beautiful' is being prescribed, moulded, and manipulated through marketing campaigns and products? What if beauty brands were regulated by a set of ethical standards that didn't allow them to prey on our insecurities to sell their products? Let's be real, beauty brands have a vested interest in you not feeling good about yourself, in you wanting to change something about your appearance or enhance your features; It's how they sell their products.      We're exploring all these topics and more today on the podcast, as Tahnee chats with prolific beauty industry journalist and author of The Unpublishable, Jessica DeFino. You may have read some of Jessica's articles in Vogue, Harper's BAZAAR, Allure, The New York Times, Elle, Cosmopolitan, or Marie Claire. Jessica has earned herself a reputation for debunking marketing myths, exposing the ugly truths behind beauty product ingredient lists, and as the HuffPost once put it, "basically giving the middle finger to the entire beauty industry". We love Jess for this and are so excited to share this podcast with you.   In this episode, Tahnee and Jessica deconstruct the beauty industry as we currently know it. The insidious impact patriarchy, white supremacy, colonialism, and capitalism have on the industry, how things like colourism, sexism, and ageism are enforced constantly through marketing campaigns, the ethical dilemma of dermatologists offering (and often suggesting) aesthetic cosmetic procedures like Botox and fillers, the role of self-care as we age, and so much more. Most importantly, Jessica talks about the power individual behaviours have when it comes to shaping culture and the future of beauty culture for the better. Jessica also breaks down how and why we need to stop participating in this psychologically damaging industry that is the root cause of so many physiological and psychological disorders. There is so much in this episode; Jessica inspires transparency, truth, and the kind of beauty that can only come from within.     "I want the next generation of humans to feel worthy, to raise their voices, be seen, heard, acknowledged, accepted, and embraced by the people around them without worrying if they're pretty enough to ask for that acknowledgment and acceptance. And I mean, that's my whole motivation. I don't think anybody should feel the way myself and billions of people around the world currently feel. I want that to change. And the only way I know how to do it is to change myself and inspire the change in others".  - Jessica DeFino     Host and Guest discuss:   Botox. Topical steroids. Filter vs. Reality. Psychodermatology. The Skin/Brain connection. How meditation benefits the Skin barrier. The ploy of 'community' used in branding. The problem with the clean beauty industry. Jess's natural skincare routine and suggestions. The culture of consumerism and the beauty industry. Performative beauty masquerading as empowerment. Self Care; What It Means and How It Changes As We Age. Racism, colourism, sexism and ageism in the beauty industry. The Kardashian's, and the beauty standards they perpetuate. The most pressing health issue in beauty is the psychological harm of beauty standards.   Who is Jessica Defino? Jessica DeFino is a beauty reporter working to dismantle beauty standards, debunk marketing myths, and explore how beauty culture impacts people — physically, psychologically, and psychospiritually. Her work can be found in the New York Times, Vogue, Allure, and more. She also writes the beauty newsletter The Unpublishable.    CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST    Resources: Jessica's website The Unpublishable Jessica's Instagram    Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi everyone, and welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. I'm here today with Jessica DeFino, who is one of my favourite follows on socials. She's also the author of The Unpublishable, which is this amazing newsletter you guys should all sign up to. I've heard you describe yourself as pro-skin/anti-beauty product. I love that. So yeah, thanks for joining us here, Jess. I'm really excited to have you.   Jessica DeFino: (00:23) Thank you so much for having me.   Tahnee: (00:25) Yeah, really, really cool. And you're such a prolific writer. You've been in the New York Times, Vogue, Marie Claire, all over the place, plus all of those amazing online platforms we have access to today. But then you're kind of this punk, which I love. You're sort of in the beauty world, but also tearing it apart from the inside. So would that be fair to say?   Jessica DeFino: (00:45) Yeah, I think that is fair to say. It's definitely a balancing act and a tight line to walk.   Tahnee: (00:56) Yeah. I often say to my husband, because I really respect that line you're walking, and I think any of us in any industry, it's really important to be critical of like the work that we do and the kind of culture and everything, and also to love and enjoy what we do. And I do get a sense that there's that sort of dance there for you. You really love what you do, but then there's also this like.   Jessica DeFino: (01:23) Exactly. I mean, the whole reason that I got into the beauty industry is out of love and out of a passion for it. And yeah, I think we do critique the things that we love the most because we want them to be the best possible version of what they can be and sort of serve the highest good. And currently, I don't think the beauty industry serves the highest good, and I think it can, and I would love to be part of that transition.   Tahnee: (01:47) Well, you're doing a good job of getting us there. So thank you. So how did that sort of manifest for you? You are obviously a writer. Did you sort of always want to get into the beauty space or were you drawn into it for a certain reason or?   Jessica DeFino: (02:01) No. I was always interested in writing. In college, I studied songwriting. I went to the Berkeley College of Music in Boston. And I sang, I played guitar and songwriting was my main passion. After school, I decided I wanted to be more in the music industry. So I pivoted. I moved to Los Angeles and I decided to work for a wardrobe stylist in the music industry. So I was assisting her on shoots and helping to cultivate the look for rock stars like Green Day and Linkin Park and Daughtry.   Jessica DeFino: (02:34) And that was really fun. And eventually I missed writing. And because I sort of had this foothold in the celebrity space, I pivoted it into celebrity lifestyle writing for magazines, which eventually led me to a job working for the Kardashians, which eventually led me into the beauty space. So it was a long winding path.   Tahnee: (02:58) Okay. So I have to stop at the Kardashians because I've never watched that show. But no matter how avoiding the Kardashians you are in life, they seem to be everywhere. What were you doing for them? What was that?   Jessica DeFino: (03:10) I was part of the launch team that created content for their official apps. So in 2015, all the Kardashian and Jenner sisters launched their own individual apps. And they had content that was fashion related, beauty related, lifestyle. I mostly did Khloe's app. I wrote her sex column. I wrote her beauty column.   Jessica DeFino: (03:32) So it was really funny. It was really fun. It was definitely a learning experience for me. And I think looking back that's part of what inspired me to get into the beauty industry. Well, for one, it was a high stress environment and my skin kind of freaked out during the time I was working there. So I started independently researching a lot about skincare and beauty.   Jessica DeFino: (03:57) And then working for these women, you sort of see how beauty standards are created, and how they are consumed, and how that is a very strategic thing in order to get clicks and sell products. And so I started deconstructing that in my head and applying it to different aspects of the beauty industry. And eventually I was like, "You know what? This is super messed up. I want to do something about it."   Tahnee: (04:27) Well, that's kind of what made me start with that, that name in particular because I feel like they've really shaped, I guess ... Again, I'm not sort of someone who's super across all the trends with face things. But people have the skin that's really shiny and the implants and all the injections and all of these things these days. And it's like I really see they were part of that first wave of celebrities that were really, I guess, pushing that. And they're such an interesting family because they have sort of darker skin, but they're not black and they're sort of in this weird world. What sort of has come from that for you? You are obviously, I love how you call it dewy, diet culture. It's one of my favourite things. But where have you landed after this sort of journey from the Kardashians to now?   Jessica DeFino: (05:17) From the Kardashians? Well, when I started, I truly did think that they were great examples of empowered business women. I really thought like, "Wow! These people started out with not much talent to work with, and they've created these huge empires. And how amazing is that?" And that was definitely an early part of my own feminist learning and understanding, and journey.   Jessica DeFino: (05:43) And now where I am is recognising that those things aren't necessarily empowerment because that sort of empowerment within a patriarchal culture, what kind of power is that truly. I'm less interested in those forms of power and beauty as capital, and infiltrating the male business world as capital. And I'm more interested in chasing collective liberation, which I think looks very different.   Tahnee: (06:16) So where does beauty even sit in that, because I think that's such an interesting ... My partner and I talk about this as well. We're both white, fairly attractive people who run a Taoist tonic herb company. And I have to think if I was Chinese, I probably wouldn't be as successful as I am just because of the way our culture reflects back that sort of stereotype. And it's something I sit with a lot and I don't have any answers about yet. But I think it's a really interesting time because beauty does give us leverage and it does give us space in the world to take up.   Jessica DeFino: (06:53) I think an interesting path to go down, if you are interested in learn more about that and learning more about beauty and how these standards evolved, is just getting into the history of beauty standards. And when you do dive into the history, I wrote a pretty long article on that for Teen Vogue, if anybody wants to Google it, about the origins of beauty standards. But basically beauty standards all came about through four particular forces in society, patriarchy, white supremacy, colonialism and capitalism. Any beauty standard from the beginning of time can be traced back to one of those things.   Jessica DeFino: (07:35) Beauty standards are how things like racism, colorism, sexism and ageism are enforced. These aren't just fun things, even though we tend to think of them that way now. These standards emerged to support these sort of more nefarious societal forces and to, not to get too conspiracy theorists about it, but convince us to reinforce these social structures. So when we are participating in beauty standards, a lot of the time we are reinforcing the very societal structures that oppress us and we don't even know it.   Tahnee: (08:16) I think that's such an important mic drop moment because we are all co-creating and participating in the ongoing perpetuation of these forms without any awareness around how we're actually contributing to that. And that's what I've loved about your work. You're really trying to bring that to the fore. And for me, it's been a big sort of, I think obviously that's been happening in my life for a while. But then your work has really helped me give words, I guess, to sort of some of the stuff that's been brewing in my thinking, because I did some modelling when I was younger and it was quite toxic for me.   Tahnee: (08:55) I know some people don't have that experience. But I had an eating disorder. I felt like people were constantly looking at me and judging me and just it really turned this kind of cog in me that made me very self aware and very uncomfortable. And I've noticed myself over the last probably 20 years just like I don't by stuff anymore. I barely use anything on my skin. My skin seems to be about the same as when I used all the things. It's really funny. Kind of as I decondition myself, it's like my life becomes a lot simpler.   Jessica DeFino: (09:29) Yeah. What strikes me there is that we often hear in the mainstream media beauty sort of touted as this path to empowerment, and beauty is empowering, and beauty builds confidence. And sometimes those things can be true. But more often what beauty culture does is it disempowers us because studies show that it contributes to things like anxiety, depression, body dysmorphia, eating disorders, self harm, and even suicide.   Jessica DeFino: (10:00) So it's really important to examine when we hear this beauty product is empowering or this thing is self care, because the flip side of that is that this disproportionate focus on our physical bodies actually leads to all of those things that I just mentioned. So we sort of have to weigh that and say, "Okay. Is the confidence that I get from getting this injection of Botox worth the anxiety that I get from now constantly worrying about my wrinkles for the rest of my life?"   Tahnee: (10:39) That's a tricky one. I know people in their twenties now getting Botox and I'm like, "Woo." And I think that's ... I mean, you've lived in LA. There's certain pockets where that pressure is really high for people. And I think it's definitely an interesting time to be a human. And that's something I really appreciate about your critique is you talk about this idea of brands and how they perpetuate this idea of community. And again, my brand is probably contributing to that in some way. But I think that's a really interesting conversation again around well, if someone is just getting money out of you and really selling you a narrative, is that actually a community, and is that actually sort of something you want to be a part of? Can you speak a little bit to that sort of, cause I see that as a theme in your work?   Jessica DeFino: (11:27) Yeah. I mean, I think community has become this sort of catch phrase that brands are using now. And it's an attractive one and it's one that really grabs our attention because I think as humans we crave community. Humans are creatures of community. We crave it on a biological, instinctual level. And because we have been so steeped in this culture of consumerism, we can't really see out of it. We don't really see any different. And it's really easy to latch onto this idea that this brand is my community and the other people that buy from this brand are also my community.   Jessica DeFino: (12:08) But it's not a community. There's inherently a power and balance in that relationship in that a brand's main interest is always going to be their financial interest. Brands don't do things unless they further the brand and make the brand money and further their reach. If something that is good for the customer also comes out of it, that's a bonus. But that is never the initial goal. The initial goal is to make a living. And so that inherently creates this power imbalance with brand and customer. And to call that a community is just, I think it's a little bit a psychological mind fuckery. I don't know if I can say that on you podcast.   Tahnee: (12:49) Of course, you can. Feel free. I think that's a really interesting ... So you probably don't know this, but I used to be a yoga teacher full-time and had a studio. And I found that really interesting when I worked in yoga before having my own business that, this is probably not a great thing to say. I won't name names. But people would talk behind students' backs and kind of be quite critical. But then to their faces, do the whole yoga thing.   Tahnee: (13:21) And similarly, within the teaching community, there was a lot of backstabbing and kind of really awful behaviour, and then this front facing kumbaya, look how spiritual we all are kind of stuff. And I found it really challenging and kind of went off and did my own thing. It was financially successful enough for me, but I really notice that when you focus on that community aspect, so much energy, so much time, so much of yourself and you can see why that's not a commercial proposition for most businesses. It's not a way to go and make you millions. But rewarding for other reasons. But I think it's like that word has become so loaded and so misused that it's really tricky now to even know what people mean when they say community, especially.   Jessica DeFino: (14:10) I mean, it's just, especially with beauty, beauty brands have a vested interest in you not feeling good about yourself. They have a vested interest in you wanting to change something about your appearance or not thinking your current appearance is enough as it is. And whether they frame that as "fixing your flaws" or "enhancing your good features", which sort of means the same thing, the baseline has to be there in order for them to be successful. You have to think your good features aren't enhanced enough. You have to think that your flaws aren't fixed.   Jessica DeFino: (14:50) I always like to use the Dove campaign, that everybody is beautiful campaign from years and years ago. That was kind of their first body positive thing. It was founded on this marketing idea of empowerment, and we're going to make everybody feel beautiful. But again, in order for a campaign like that to succeed long term, depends on most customers not feeling beautiful and needing to buy into this message of confidence and empowerment. So your insecurity has to be there in order for these brands to survive even if their marketing message seems positive.   Tahnee: (15:28) I do know. And I don't see that much difference you in the wellness space, if I'm honest. I know I seem to make those comparisons. And I think that's something that I'm aware of in terms of the world we live in, which I guess like you Americans, that sort of we are a version of Moon Juice or those kinds of companies here, obviously with less of a fashion focus than they have. But I think it's a really interesting thing because it's like the premise can be literally there's something wrong with you. You need to buy X, Y and Z to be healthier, or better, or in this perpetual grind toward optimization and stuff, kind of improvement. So can you speak a little bit to that, how you see that overlap up between wellness and beauty in what's happening?   Jessica DeFino: (16:16) Well, I think what has been happening more so is that the shift in messaging is less about outer beauty and physical appearance as it is health. Health has sort of become the beauty standard. And now of course we associate health with having all of these aesthetic markers that are not necessarily signs of health. For instance, beauty brands will use glowing glass skin, healthy skin, and glass skin. That look is not a marker of health. That's not what healthy skin looks like.   Jessica DeFino: (16:57) And I think wellness brands will do the same thing. They'll use health as this marker, but the things that they're positioning as health are not necessarily health, or maybe they are, but it's not going to be fixed by a supplement or a tincture. A lot of the problems that wellness brands are trying to solve are structural societal problems that require collective action and policy change, and not just a stress relieving tincture. So sure, a stress relieving tincture might help. But it's not actually solving the underlying problem. And I think if brands don't acknowledge that, it's pretty disingenuous.   Tahnee: (17:39) So it's really pointing to root cause, which is one of those foundations of neuropathy. And all of these, in theory, wellness things anyway, rather than going at what's the outside symptom.   Jessica DeFino: (17:51) Exactly. Which is so ironic for a lot of wellness brands because they claim to be treating root cause. A lot of the wellness philosophy comes from root cause medicine and holisticism and or holism and and all of that. And still, they're stopping at individual solutions rather than looking wider to systemic solutions. And again, that's not to say you can't do both. As a brand, you can of course say, "Hey, this blend of ashwagandha and whatever might help you feel less stressed throughout the day. And also-   Tahnee: (18:28) So you can go tackle the patriarchy.   Jessica DeFino: (18:31) Here are the systemic reasons why you're feeling stressed, and here is how we as a brand are going to encourage change in those areas too.   Tahnee: (18:41) Well, I think that's such a, not trying to point the finger at America, but that individual pull yourself up by bootstraps. That's such a cultural ... When I was at uni, we studied cultural colonialism. And it's something that really landed for me is how much we've digested that American like, "You can do it." But then it really takes out that we do need to come together as a community and there's this sort of usefulness in us having these conversations to together and sharing them widely. So I noticed that's changing in America slowly, I think, maybe. Are you saying that?   Jessica DeFino: (19:21) I think so. I think, again, it starts with buzzword. And that's not exactly a bad thing. But like just how we set ed brands are starting to use community. Okay, it feels a little disingenuous. But also, okay, it's getting the idea of community out into the collective consciousness and we can start valuing that more. So I am hearing more community, collectivism, collective care. And that feels really good. And I think what needs to happen is just sort of taking that next step from absorbing it as a marketing term and adopting it as a way of life.   Tahnee: (20:00) Yeah. And actually changing culture and letting that filter through. I wanted to step back to self care because you mentioned that before and it's something. I guess we both using Instagram. It's kind of one of those things that always makes me cringe a little bit when I see someone with their bubble bath and their face mask, whatever. And for me, self care has a pretty different definition, especially being a mom. It's usually like my practise and meditation and sleep. They're my pillars. But I'm interested for you obviously having been in the beauty industry and now sort of holding this space of holding up a mirror literally to this strange industry, how has self-care changed or been redefined for you over the last sort of decade or so?   Jessica DeFino: (20:47) I think for sure, I used to definitely give into the brand focused definition of self care as being like, "I'm going to do a face mask, and I'm going to take a bubble bath, and even I'm going to go for a run, or I'm going to exercise." And I mean, those are all valid things. It took me a really long time to realise, or not to realise, but to embody and incorporate the idea that yourself isn't your skin, and yourself isn't your body. Yourself is your values, your purpose, your passions, your deeper wants and needs, your emotions. And all of those things require care too.   Jessica DeFino: (21:33) So if my self-care stops at a face mask, it's literally stopping at the surface, not actually addressing the self. It's just addressing the fleshy coating that encapsulates my spiritual self. So just having that sort of aha moment was huge for me, which is not to say that I'm necessarily great at self-care. I still work too much and don't take time every day to meditate, and don't particularly feel like I'm in a season of my life where I am actively caring for myself the way that I should. But at least I have an awareness about it now. Is that any better? I don't know.   Tahnee: (22:16) I think so. I think that's a step. I mean, my experience is similar of being this, even though I'm a yoga teacher, been practising since I was 15. At the beginning, if I'm really truly honest, I was practising because I didn't want to get fat and I wanted to have a strong body and a healthy body. But it was quite an external motivation. It wasn't to connect to myself or to feel more calm in my existence or whatever. Now it's literally this thing that reminds me of my spaciousness and my connection to life and nature and all of it, and why I'm a mother, and why I'm ... But that took me, I'm 36. I would say in the last 10 years, that's really landed for me. But that's a long time with one discipline really to get to a place of not using it to beat myself up, I suppose. And I think it's a process.   Jessica DeFino: (23:15) Yeah. And it's also fine because I have said many times before that vanity was my entry point to wellness. So the reason I started meditating was because my skin was so inflamed, and I had been through the ringer with dermatologist. I had been on a prescription steroid treatment. It actually really damaged my skin. I went to topical steroid withdrawal and I couldn't put products on my skin.   Jessica DeFino: (23:40) And so I started looking at stress reducing exercises to sort of minimise the impact of stress on my skin because you get stress breakouts, stress can cause acne and rosacea, all of that. So I was like, "Okay, I'm going to clear my skin." So I started meditating. And it was for purely vein reasons. And then once I got into the practice, it expanded and it became so much more. And it became not about my appearance at all. So I think it's fine to have these sort of vein superficial pursuits be your entry point, as long as you are able to cultivate that awareness and allow yourself to expand further and maybe even use it to let go of the original vanity and the original superficial reason why.   Tahnee: (24:33) I think that's so true because that sort of evolution of self has to be honoured and acknowledged. And I think that's probably what I see as so insidious about the kind of those four pillars you were talking about of patriarch and white supremacy and all these things. It's like it's so insidious and it's designed to really trap us in this cycle. And I actually do think it takes quite a lot of strength and self awareness to step out of that. And then I think what you are doing to sort of help raise collective awareness about these things, it's a big task and it's not ... So I think however people get there, it's great.   Jessica DeFino: (25:14) And it's also not easy. So I know like my work and my writing can come off as very harsh. And people will sort of come at me for it and be like, "I don't want to let of this certain beauty procedure or my Botox appointment or my lipstick. And I don't think you should be telling people to let go of these things. And how dare you? And blah, blah, blah." And that's a valid perspective too. And I think what we all need to realise is that so many of us have formed these beauty habit and these beauty behaviours as a coping mechanism. We are coping in a world where we are judged by our beauty. And it has material effects on the quality of our life. "Pretty people" make more money, get better jobs, have better social standings, have better legal outcomes even. There are material benefits to performing beauty.   Jessica DeFino: (26:11) And so when we develop these habits and these behaviours, those are natural and totally understandable reactions to living within a world that judges us based on our outside appearance. And then I also think we need to acknowledge that as we slowly let go of these behaviours, we are changing the culture that instilled them within us. We have that power collectively to change the way things are. And I personally think that it has to start with us individually and collectively deciding to stop participating if and when that is emotionally available to us.   Jessica DeFino: (27:00) If abandoning a beauty behaviour is giving you extreme anxiety and affecting the quality of your life, don't do that. Work on the anxiety thing first. And then maybe later in your life, you will start to let go of the beauty behaviour that prompted it. But there's a balance there where you have to protect your mental wellbeing, while also divesting from this industry and this culture that tells us our appearance is the most important thing about us.   Tahnee: (27:33) So you're still a fairly young woman like me. I often think, I'm not going to speak about other people. But for myself, I've often been like, "When I'm 60, I'll just kick around with my grey hair and not worry about how I look." But that was definitely more so in my 20s. As I'm getting older, I'm sort of integrating more. But how do you personally dance this dance between performative beauty and, I suppose, I guess wanting to present? I love mascara. I have blonde eyelashes. Mascara makes me happy. Those are things that I don't want to give up. Are there things for you that sort of still draw you into this world or?   Jessica DeFino: (28:14) Yeah. I mean, I think the big thing for me is my eyebrows. So I have, it's a mental disorder called trichotillomania, called hair pulling disorder. So when I get really anxious, I actually pick out my eyebrows. And I can't help it. I can't stop it. There is no approved treatment for it. It's just something that I do, and I've done since I was 16. And seeing my bald eyebrows is really traumatising for me. It makes me even more anxious, and then I pick even more.   Jessica DeFino: (28:51) So for me, eyebrow makeup and microblading is something that I'm currently not emotionally able to let go of because it does affect my quality of life if my eyebrows are completely bald, because it triggers the trichotillomania. It makes me remember of like, "Look what you've done to yourself." It starts it all over again. And so I always use that as an example of like this is not a safe beauty behaviour for me to let go of because it harms me to let go of it at this point. I'm working on that emotionally and maybe be someday I will be able to let go of that. And that would be a beautiful thing.   Jessica DeFino: (29:30) And I think I also still have a lot of anxiety around my acne scars. I have had pretty severe cystic acne since I was 14, 15. I've gone through the ringer for treatments of it. And I've done a lot of work to not have to wear a full face of makeup every day. I mean, in my early 20s, I would put on liquid foundation, concealer powder, lipstick, eye line, all of it to go to CVS for toilet paper. I could not be seen without it.   Jessica DeFino: (30:00) And now I pretty much don't wear makeup. But in social situations where I need like a little bit of cushioning to not feel different or weird or ugly, I have gotten down to just tinted moisturiser, a little concealer, blush and eyebrows. Those are my four. And I would love to be at a place where I felt like I didn't need makeup in those situations. But I still do feel like I need it. And so I'm slowly easing my way out of it and being gentle with myself when I do need that sort of skincare security blanket.   Tahnee: (30:42) I think it's such an important thing to talk about because I have a little girl. She's five, or she'll be five in two days. I'm making a rainbow cake right now. It's highly stressful.   Jessica DeFino: (30:53) Oh, so cute.   Tahnee: (30:56) But I watch her. I'm like you. My makeup kit is literally tinted moisturiser, a blush thing, mascara and an eyebrow grooming tool. But I will put that stuff on before we go out for dinner or do some kind of an event of some kind. And I've just watched her, without any encouragement from me, sort of integrate this idea that she now has to ... She doesn't sort of want to put it on every day or whatever. But if she sees my little makeup kit lying there, she'll grab it and she'll start putting on blush. And she'll ask me if she looks pretty, and this part of me dies. I'm like, "Oh my God! What have I done to her?" And then this other part of me is like, "This is life and we kind of have to navigate these things with our kids."   Tahnee: (31:46) But it's been a really interesting dance because I've sort of, I was raised with a mom who didn't really wear makeup at all. And in many ways, I found her lack of self care and presentation almost a bit confronting. It was like can you at least try? Can you put on some ... So it's this sort of interesting thing. And I haven't got any answers at all. But I think we all have to find a space where we're comfortable with what we're putting out there. And I think the piece that you really have been pointing to and we've been dancing around is it's that conscious awareness and choosing what we engage with and what we don't, as opposed to being unconsciously moulded by an industry that's designed to be very toxic for us.   Jessica DeFino: (32:27) Yeah. I mean, I think the mother daughter pipeline is such a powerful example of how individual behaviours shape culture, and how working on our individual behaviours and changing our individual behaviours can shape the future of beauty culture to be better, to be safer, to not be as stifling and suffocating. I think a lot of times people read my work and they think that I have completely freed myself from the pressure of beauty standards. And that's not true at all. I feel so weighed down by the pressure to be beautiful or to look a certain way or to ... I feel that all the time, that I'm not good enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not beautiful enough to use my voice in the particular space. I am not pretty enough to be looked at and to be like a public figure or whatever.   Jessica DeFino: (33:25) And so many people feel that. And that is my main motivation, is like nobody should feel that way. I want the next generation of humans to feel worthy raising of their voice and being seen, and heard, and acknowledged, and accepted, and just embraced by the people around them without worrying about if they're pretty enough to ask for that acknowledgement and acceptance. And I mean, that's my whole motivation. I don't think anybody should feel the way that I know I feel, and it sounds like you have felt and millions and billions of people around the world feel currently. I just want that to change. And the only way I know how to do it is to change myself and inspire it in others.   Tahnee:  (34:15) Yeah. I think that one thing, this is weird. It's sort of a segue, but it's linked. My husband, when I first got with him, I was like, "You don't use anything." Literally, the guy doesn't use shampoo, he doesn't use soap. He doesn't. He literally goes in the shower, kind of maybe every now and then he'll use Dr. Bronner's on his armpits or something. Seriously, his little man bag when we travel is toothbrush, toothpaste, not even a hairbrush, a hair tie. And I'm like, "Hang on a second. This person-   Jessica DeFino: (34:49) And I bet he has fine hair and skin.   Tahnee: (34:52) No, beautiful hair and skin. I'm always like, "What the fuck? How come you have this amazing hair and this amazing skin and you've never used any of the stuff?"   Jessica DeFino: (35:06) That's the secret.   Tahnee: (35:08) I know. So I'm interested in this because my daughter, we've never used shampoo and things on her. We've used some conditioner because she has my hand. It gets really tangled. And she barely uses soap, all of these things. And I guess kind of inspired by my husband. I haven't quite got to his level of self corporation. But I'm really interested in that because I mean, yes, patriarchy. But bodies, they're sort of not these filthy beasts that can't take care of themselves. They have these self cleaning mechanisms. You speak about this a little bit. What's your kind of current deep dive into this world? How is that?   Jessica DeFino: (35:46) Sure. Well, I always like to say human skin survived and thrived for literally millennia before pre-bottled products were invented. So it's fine. It's truly fine to not use almost anything. The skin has built-in mechanisms to self cleanse, self moisturise, self exfoliate, self heal, and self protect. And oftentimes what we do when we apply all of these products, and again, not again, but a reminder, your scalp is skin. So this stuff applies to hair as well. When we add all of these external products, we actually interrupt the skin's inherent functions and we change the signals they get, because sort of the extension of your skin is the environment. It gets a lot of its cues out how much sebum to produce or how many dead skin cells to shed from the environment it's in.   Jessica DeFino: (36:42) So when you sort of cut off the connection to that environment with skincare products, you interrupt these mechanisms and they kind of go haywire. And then you become dependent on the products to keep your skin in that cycle because your skin hasn't needed to interact with its actual environment and figure out how to regulate itself. So oftentimes when you just stop using products, it'll take a week, two weeks, sometimes a month. A skin cycle is 28 days. So that's what I generally recommend. When you stop using these products, you'll find that skin self regulates and you actually don't need many products or sometimes even any products. Of course there are like some modern changes to the environment that we can account for. For instance, pollution levels are a lot higher, sun exposure is a lot more harsh.   Tahnee: (37:37) Air conditioning.   Jessica DeFino: (37:37) Yeah, exactly. So SPF, great. Sometimes your skin will need a little bit more moisture in that case. I love to use Jojoba oil on damp skin. Jojoba oil is like a 97% chemical match to human sebum. So your skin really responds well to it as if it were it's own. And I personally cleanse with Manuka Honey, and really-   Tahnee:  (38:03) I've seen you talk about that.   Jessica DeFino: (38:04) I love Manuka, but-   Tahnee:  (38:05) Well, I love it too. But I mean, I tend to use it on wounds and internally. So what's your take on skincare? I've used as a mask before.   Jessica DeFino: (38:14) Yeah. Well, exactly. It's used in hospitals for wound healing, for burn healing. And that's because it really supports the skin's inherent repair and healing mechanisms. So if your skin is acne prone or eczema prone, or psoriasis, rosacea, any of those big skin issues, Manuka is beautiful. It's so great for it because it supports your skin's inherent healing. It's a prebiotic. So it supports your skin's microbiome. It's food for all of those great beneficial bacteria that live on your skin. It's full of antioxidants. Antioxidants are great for fighting free radicals like pollution particles. There are just so many things. It's also humectant. So it draws moisture into your skin. So your skin is able to stay moisturised on its own. It's just, to me, a perfect product. Of course, if you don't have prevalent skin issues, a normal honey will usually do the trick. It has a lot of the same properties. It's just that Manuka has really special healing properties.   Tahnee: (39:25) Yeah. So you're talking about, they're the ones we use medicinally, they're the ones with the pluses. I can't remember what the compound is right now. I should know.   Jessica DeFino: (39:33) It's called the UMF rating. Unique Manuka Factor. So for skincare, if you're using it topically for its healing properties, you want to look for a UMF plus rating of 15 or higher.   Tahnee: (39:47) Yeah. Because I think it can go quite higher from memory. The New Zealand honey industry is thanking you right now for the plug. Well, I guess on a really practical note, it's very sticky. So how do you get around that?   Jessica DeFino: (40:01) Well, I mean I use it as a cleanser. So I will splash my face with water and then just take like a finger full and massage it onto your face for about a minute, and then wash it off. It's really not sticky at all. If you're doing it as a face mask, yeah, it'll be a little sticky. You're not going to be running around the house in it. But you also can't run around the house in a sheet mask. So take those 15 minutes to just chill. Don't touch your face. You'll be fine.   Tahnee: (40:31) Yeah, great. And I mean, are there other things you've sort of changed in your routine from your little research dives? Or like what else are you looking into?   Jessica DeFino: (40:41) Yeah. I mean, the bulk of my like "skincare routine" is mindfulness practices because one of the most fascinating finds of my skincare research has been the field of psychodermatology, which focuses on the skin brain connection. So the skin, the gut and the brain, it's called the gut brain skin axis, are all connected. They form from the same bit of embryonic tissue in utero, and there they form these pathways and these connections that are there for life. So that's why what you eat can affect your skin. It's the gut skin connection. And even what you think can affect your skin. That's the skin brain connection. And we usually see this in more negative settings. So if you're stressed out, and you get a stress pimple, anxiety acne, or when you're embarrassed and you blush, or when you're scared and the colour drains from your face. These are all everyday examples of the skin brain connection.   Jessica DeFino: (41:39) What I found in my research is that it actually goes the other way. So if you actively cultivate a calmer mindset, it results in calmer skin. So for instance, meditation strengthens the skin barrier. It makes your skin are able to hold in moisture. So it actually does create that, we call it, an inner glow. But it's actually an outer glow. It's actually your skin barrier getting stronger and being better able to hold onto moisture and producing balanced levels of oils. So that has been fascinating to me. So I try to incorporate practices like that in my routine.   Jessica DeFino: (42:15) And then a big thing for me was researching the skin barrier and realising that, it sounds so obvious. But your skin is built from within. Your skin cells come from the deepest layer of your skin, work their way out and then eventually shut off. So you're focusing on putting skincare on your face, you're caring for them at the final stages of their life.   Tahnee: (42:41) It's like palliative care.   Jessica DeFino: (42:45) Exactly. If you focus on consuming the nutrients that your skin needs to create healthy skin cells, you're great and you're actually not irritating your skin barrier with external products. So omega-3s and omega-6s are huge for the skin barrier. They're essential fatty acids. They are integral to skin barrier function and the body can't produce them on its own. It can only get them via diet. So once I started incorporating omega-3s into my diet through a supplement, but also through like salmon, nuts and seeds are huge sources of omegas, my skin saw the results of that very quickly. And that's goes onto your skin.   Tahnee: (43:29) And that's going to be overall. Yeah. I was going to say feel better.   Jessica DeFino: (43:30) Exactly. I mean, it's great for brain function, for hormones, for heart health. They're so important. And also yeah, it makes you glow. So why not?   Tahnee: : (43:40) Win-win.   Jessica DeFino: (43:42) Exactly.   Tahnee: (43:44) And topically, you're sort of just sticking to really simple stuff like you.   Jessica DeFino: (43:47) Yeah. Topically, I don't do much. Honestly, the best thing you can do for your skin is leave it alone. It does so much for you, and it doesn't really want to be bothered. So I really don't wash my face in the mornings. Sometimes I'll spritz it with water if I need to, and I'll put on a little bit of jojoba oil if it's feeling dry. On damp skin and if I'm going outside, mineral SPF. And then at night, I'll wash off the SPF or any makeup that I have on with jojoba oil as an oil cleanser, Manuka honey as a cleanser. And then that's it. I love to leave my skin bare overnight because overnight is when a lot of the skin's repair and renewal processes take place. And again, it needs to interact with your environment in order to do those to the best of its ability. So I just love a skincare free evening.   Tahnee: (44:43) Well, it's so interesting you say all of that because I've landed at a similar place. I basically use jojoba, if I do wear mascara, to get that off and then I wipe my face with a cloth at night, and then I wipe my face with water in the morning. And that's pretty much it. If it's dry, I'll use oil.   Jessica DeFino: (45:02) I love that.   Tahnee: (45:05) Like you said, it took a little while for my skin to sort of, I think probably like a month, just to feel like it was ... It was a bit patchy, I think, or something. I just remember it not being amazing for a little bit. And then it was totally fine.   Jessica DeFino: (45:19) Yeah. And part of that process is also like letting go of these arbitrary aesthetic expectations that we have placed on our skin. Your skin's not going to glow like a piece of freshly polished glass from doing nothing to it. But that's also because your skin is not supposed to glow like a freshly polished piece of glass. Things-   Tahnee: (45:41) Does that basically mean you've taken off, because it sort of seems to me you're taking off that protective ... My understanding is the skin's more mechanical. But it's a protective area and it's meant to be there, and you shouldn't probably be exactly deleting it.   Jessica DeFino: (45:53) Yeah, exactly. Everything that's happening on your skin is happening for a reason. It's meant to have a barrier for a reason. Dead skin cells are there for a reason. They're actually really important to skin functioning. And actually, your dead skin cells are the only skin cells that are equipped to hold external moisture. So when you absorb moisture from the environment rather than drinking it, your dead skin cells are the only cells that can actually do that. So if you're exfoliating them away every day, your skin is going to be dry.   Tahnee: (46:24) Then you need more moisturising things, and vicious cycle.   Jessica DeFino: (46:29) Yeah, it's important. Yes. It's important to just keep everything in place. And the reason that we have, part of the reason that we have come to repeatedly damage our skin through skincare and think that it looks good is because we're actually creating these micro injuries on the surface of our skin every time we do that. So for instance, intense exfoliation will often make you look very smooth and shiny. And we like that. And so we keep chasing that. What that is is your skin's repair process kicking in. When it's injured, your skin, your body, sends all of these healing nutrients and molecules to the surface, collagen, hyaluronic acid, which are supposed to be in the deeper layers of your skin, all of these other things. They flood the injured area with nutrients to sort of heal and repair. And we think that looks good because suddenly we're getting this rush of blood to the surface and all of these good molecules. And what it is is it's a response to injury. And we shouldn't have that happening all the time. [crosstalk 00:47:37].   Tahnee: (47:37) It sounds like a drain on our resources as well.   Jessica DeFino: (47:39) Exactly. Your skin doesn't want to be in repair mode constantly. So I think with glass skin and things like that, we've sort of normalised the look of injury, which again, traces back to capitalism because if you're constantly injuring your skin, you constantly have to repair your skin. And it's just a process that requires product after product, after product with no end in sight. And if you sort of chill and let your skin re-regulate, you can honestly wean yourself off of most of those products.   Tahnee: (48:10) It feels like it's gotten worse since Instagram. I don't know if I'm sort of ... Like I said, I don't really, my one kind of delve into this world, which my husband finds really funny is every now and then I read Into The Gloss Top Shelf, just because I find it incredibly amusing how much shit people have.   Jessica DeFino: (48:27) It is fascinating.   Tahnee: (48:29) Yeah. And I get down into this like, "Wow! This person uses 93 creams in the morning or whatever. And how do they have time? And they must be so rich." And anyway, it's just this funny little reality TV show world of mine. But that, sort of I've noticed. I remember when I first started reading, which would've probably been five or six years ago maybe, there was a lot more sort of, it was quite simple, I feel like, whereas now it feels like people are using a lot of different things. And you see these skin care routines that are 9,000 steps. And I wonder is that because, do you think that's in part because of this filter culture? And I mean, you call everyone dewy dust bunnies, which I love. But there does seem to be, and actually another thing you wrote, which I really loved was like is this fear of dead skin cells related to our fear of death?   Jessica DeFino: (49:21) Oh, yeah.   Tahnee: (49:24) I think it's a really interesting thing because it's like we've suddenly kind of got this platform where people are sharing these kind of quite synthetic versions of themselves. And then we're trying to match our 3D reality to this thing. And it's a bit of a concern.   Jessica DeFino: (49:38) It's so much. I think there are a lot of factors at play there. I think one of them is just that's the nature of consumerism. It's this constant need for more and more and more and more and more. And we've seen that grow in real time through Instagram. I think too, this skincare boom that sort of started with Glossier, beauty has always been messaged as this ethical, moral imperative. It's always been this ethical idea. Beauty historically has been associated with goodness. And so we sort of feel this moral obligation to be as beautiful as possible.   Jessica DeFino: (50:14) Recently, I think through the start of COVID, science has sort of been messaged as this ethical ideal as well, western science. And health has always been an ethical ideal. Of course, these things are not moral, but they have been messaged as such. And so with skincare, you get a lot. You get this sort of moral validation of, "Oh! This is something I'm doing for my health." Even though it's mostly just aesthetic, it's messaged as a healthcare thing and a self care thing. And so that feels really good. And so people are emboldened to share more of it and do more of it.   Jessica DeFino: (50:56) And then there's also this scientific intellectual aspect of skincare where people are just over the top about knowing everything about this particular active ingredient, and whether this ingredient mixes with this ingredient, and what this other ingredient does to your skin. So skincare offers a lot of ways to sort of show off and feel good about yourself. There's the science intellectual aspect, there's the health aspect and there's the beauty aspect. So I think all of those combined into this huge, just overwhelming mass of just skincare bullshit.   Jessica DeFino: (51:29) And then also, as you said, the filter thing is for sure part of it. We're seeing people through filters, and we're seeing less of people in person, especially again through COVID. So we're getting all of our information about what human skin looks like we're seeing through a screen, and we're actually not getting any validation of what real human skin looks like in person, because we're really not seeing people. Most of our interactions are through a screen, through a filter, through lighting, through all of these things that warp our perception of what our skin is supposed to look like.   Jessica DeFino: (52:07) So we're seeing everybody else out there looking "perfect" and we're seeing our actual skin, in an actual mirror, with no filter and we're saying, "Oh my God, what's wrong with me?" And so we start buying and applying all these products to try and match our real life skin to this sort of virtual ideal that doesn't exist in real life. And all of it is just this huge recipe you for, one, consumerism, and two, just skin stress.   Tahnee: (52:34) Insecurity. I think that filter, I'm thinking about the metaverse right now, whatever Facebook. I'm like, "Oh God, this is going to get more interesting." I mean, you've spoken a bit about, I guess we've sort of touched more on what I would say the conventional beauty industry. But clean beauty has become this thing in the last again maybe decade. I'm not really sure on the timelines. And it's sort of the same thing, right? Are you seeing any distinction in this clean beauty space or what's your rate on this trend?   Jessica DeFino: (53:11) I think the ethos behind clean beauty is admirable and necessary. There are a lot of unnecessary ingredients in our beauty products. There are a lot of potentially harmful ingredients in our beauty products and the science bears this out.   Tahnee:  (53:27) Well you also made a note of a dinner you went to where the person was sharing.   Jessica DeFino: (53:31) Oh, my gosh!   Tahnee: (53:31) I was like I wonder if you'd had a few wines when you wrote that?   Jessica DeFino: (53:37) Oh my God. I'm privy to some beauty industry insider information. And it's not good. There are-   Tahnee: (53:47) This particular comment was like, "Yeah, this is not good for people." And they're putting it in this mass produced product.   Jessica DeFino: (53:51) I was talking to a product engineer who was telling me that the ingredient that this cosmetic corporation was using as its star ingredient in a lot of new products was not safe. And they were trying to tell the company, "Hey, we can't use this." And the company was saying, "We're going to use it." So just know behind the scenes there's a lot of stuff going on. There are ingredients that just don't belong in beauty products that are in beauty products. They're not going to kill you, most of the time. They're just ...   Jessica DeFino: (54:22) And I say that talking about extreme examples of a couple of years ago, there was a moisturiser that was contaminated with mercury. That was a counterfeit product. And it actually did put a woman in a coma. Is that going to happen every day with the products you buy at CVS and Target? No. But there are these outlier cases. So I'm not trying to fear longer there. I'm just trying to say like, "Hey, stuff happens." So I do think that the ethos of clean beauty is a necessary one. But it has become this marketing monster and it has gotten so out of control. And a lot of the statistics that clean beauty brands and clean beauty influencers are using are actually scientifically incorrect. And so it undermines the more admirable overall mission of clean beauty.   Jessica DeFino: (55:16) And so I do have a lot of problems with that. I also think that the solution to most of our problems is not cleaner beauty, but just less beauty. We just need to be using less of everything. I see clean beauty products that have 52 natural ingredients in it. And it's like the skin doesn't want 52 ingredients on it. That's going to cause irritation. That's not a better product in any sense of the word.   Jessica DeFino: (55:41) And then finally, I think that in non-toxic beauty, we are focusing on the wrong toxicity. Sure, some of these ingredients can be harmful. But the most toxic thing in the beauty industry are beauty standards. And these products promote unrealistic beauty standards. And these beauty standards that these products are pushing, even clean products, are leading to physical and psychological health issues in humans all around the world, from anxiety, to depression, to eating disorders, to dysmorphia, to self harm and even suicide.   Jessica DeFino: (56:20) And that is what's toxic in the beauty industry more than anything. So I wish that the industry overall could adopt this attitude of clean beauty and apply it to the ideology of the industry and clean up the standards that we're selling people because if you're concerned is a health issue, the most pressing health issue in beauty is the psychological harm of beauty standards.   Tahnee: (56:48) And I mean, I'm just thinking about dermatology, because I know you've mentioned that before, and you've had your own experience with that. And the topical steroid piece you wrote was really interesting because I've not had any experience with it. But I've heard from a lot of people that come through our doors how damaging, and I guess my understanding is it's quite a commonly recommended first step is like, "Use this quite strong product. And I think what I've heard you point to a few times in this podcast is how much that psychological factor is influencing what's showing up on us.   Tahnee: (57:23) And I have a similar, I don't know if your stress was work related mine. I left a partner of 10 years. And it was a big life change for me, and came off the pill at the same time. So it was a combination. Or I'd come off the pill for years earlier. But it was a combination of things going on. But I can really trace my kind of emotional instability at that time to what was reflecting on my face.   Tahnee: (57:49) And I've studied all these practises, Taoist healing and things. And we speak about how these organs and these parts of body, like the emotion, if the body can't hold it, it comes out through these elimination channels. And I think that's a really interesting of an untouched topic. And I don't see dermatology really addressing that. I think what I tend to see as people getting trapped in these loops with prescriptions and kind of appointments. And is that sort of your experience? I mean, I don't know heaps about the dermatology world. But is that your experience?   Jessica DeFino: (58:20) Yeah. I mean, I will say that there are great dermatologists out there, and I do think dermatology is of course necessary for your annual skin cancer screening and anything relating to actual physical health issues that are manifesting specifically on the skin. That being said, in my experience in interviewing thousands of people or over the years and in researching the field of dermatology, the main goal for dermatologists day in day out with their patients is to eliminate the physical symptoms. That doesn't mean treating the root cause, and that doesn't even mean promoting skin health. So a lot of the very powerful drugs that dermatologists are describing will eliminate the physical skin symptoms for a time. And they often do this at the expense of overall skin health and skin functioning.   Jessica DeFino: (59:19) So for example, antibiotics are the number one prescription in skin care. Antibiotics actively kill the bacteria of your gut microbiome and your skin microbiome, which are huge factor in healthy skin long term. And that can lead to more skin issues down the road. Something like Accutane, while it can be very helpful for a lot of people psychologically because it can wipe out acne very quickly, it does this by destroying and damaging your sebaceous glands. And that's a direct quote from a dermatologist. A dermatologist told me in an interview that we damage and destroy sebaceous glands.   Jessica DeFino: (59:58) I was on Accutane in my early twenties before I knew much about it. And my skin still struggles to moisturise itself. I have not regained the sebaceous function at all. So again, this is an example of a prescription that sort of damages the skin long term. Steroids, for sure. I mean, there's a lot of scientific literature on how steroids damage the skin's inherent functions. So dermatology is still very much steeped in this world of aesthetics where it's just trying to create this certain aesthetic as quickly as possible, and that doesn't necessarily serve you or your skin in the long term.   Tahnee:  (01:00:36) So that's sort of making the problem go away without really addressing why it's cropped up in the first place.   Jessica DeFino: (01:00:41) Exactly. I also think there's a huge ethical dilemma to the fact that a lot of aesthetic cosmetic procedures are offered by dermatologists like Botox and fillers. These things are not markers of health. And I do think it's a huge conflict of interest that healthcare providers are not only offering these services, but suggesting them. Offering them is one thing. If people are going to get them, they need to get them in a safe way. But I have heard from dozens and dozens of people who will go into their dermatologist for an annual screening and their dermatologist will say, "Hey. So you recently turned 28. Have you thought about Botox?" And this is your healthcare provider who is now planting this.   Tahnee:  (01:01:25) That's so unethical.   Jessica DeFino: (01:01:26) It's so unethical. And planting the seed of doubt in your brain like, "Oh no, I look old. I need to do something about it. And my healthcare provider is telling me that this is an option. So it must be safe and it must be healthy." And it's equating aesthetic with health again. And it's creating this really, I think, toxic cycle of obsession with our appearance outside of health.   Tahnee: (01:01:56) Is there a long term effect to Botox? Because I've heard about people having preventative Botox, which I'm not ... So my husband's mom is disabled and she has Botox in her leg because it actually is a medical treatment, which was sort of new to me. I knew it had been developed for that, but I sort of figured it had become a beauty thing. But I've sort of been seeing it around that people use it preventatively. Does it actually? It doesn't work long term though, right? It stops after a few months.   Jessica DeFino: (01:02:24) No, it doesn't work long term. It wears off after a while. So you have to keep getting these injections. And just applying common sense, there's no way to know that Botox is preventing anything. You say you're using it preventatively, but what are you preventing? Everybody ages in different ways. Some people get really deep lines and some people get no lines at all. And I mean, there is just no scientific way to prove that you're preventing something. So that is just a, that's marketing. That's nothing more than marketing.   Tahnee: (01:03:01) And kind of we haven't spoken a lot about race. But I'm obviously conscious of time with you. But with things like gua sha, and even I've been seeing face yoga on Instagram recently and these things. I'm interested in, again, from my understanding of yoga, maybe I'm wrong, and of Taoist practices, gua sha, yes, there's the aesthetic, but also it moves Chi, it helps move fluid. It's this really powerful ... I use it on my body because it's this really powerful way of clearing chafe from the meridians and stagnation, these kinds of things. But I'm seeing it a lot now as this really popular trend to get rid of wrinkles and do this and do that. So it's like we've sort of taken, I guess it's the same thing with this whole conversation. It's like we take the real root essence of something and turn it into just an aesthetic kind of.   Jessica DeFino: (01:03:51) Yeah. I mean, to me, that is like the real tragedy of gua sha getting so huge and facial massage getting so huge is that there's been this focus place on it as this is a way to get rid of wrinkles, or it's a way to look younger, when actually these practices offer so many overall health benefits to not only you and your skin, but also your mind. Massage in any form is this huge form of stress relief. It sends a physiological chemical cascade through your whole body that lowers cortisol and promotes skin health and also promotes overall health. And there are just so many benefits to these practices beyond aesthetic.   Jessica DeFino: (01:04:31) And I think we do them a real disservice by focusing on the aesthetic benefits rather than the fact that facial massage supports your skin's inherent cleansing mechanisms, it supports your skin's inherent moisturization and exfoliation mechanisms. It boosts blood circulation. It brings nutrients to your skin cells so that they are healthier and more efficient and better equipped to protect you and to heal you. These are all wonderful reasons to engage in these practices. And I think that should be the focus rather than you're going to look younger.   Tahnee: (01:05:06) Yes, it's funny. I mean, it crossed my mind when my daughter was born. She's got that porcelain baby skin. It's like, "Oh! It's a shame we don't get to keep that." But it's also very vulnerable, right? And so you're always trying to pr

At Places I Remember we love stories of memorable people and places, and this episode certainly offers that.After a life  of international travel; work including opera performer, chef and arts director; raising a family; divorcing and recovering from alcoholism, Sandra Smith was a ready for a sea change. Literally. At 43, Sandra moved from Philadelphia to the California coast, bought a 35-foot sailboat, painted it pink,  and taught herself to sail. Her travel adventures for the next seven years took her down the coast to Mexico and into the Pacific. Navigating by the ancient mariners' system of dead-reckoning, she experienced storms, evaded drug dealers and pirates as she sailed over 4,000 miles alone and sometimes with her rebellious teenage daughter. Using just a compass, a chart and a prayer, the author embarks on this spiritual odyssey which brings self-discovery and healing.Later Sandra enjoyed adventures in Guatemala, and winds up in Arizona, living a land-locked, but still fascinating life. Sandra's  spirit is unique. Her ability to live large in the moment and roll with the tide is remarkable and inspiring._____Sandra C H Smith 's memoir, Out of the Fog, is available at Amazon in paperback and eBook. It's also available from the publisher, and online and in-store at Barnes&Noble:  Her website: https://SandraCHSmith.com   _____Podcast host Lea Lane blogs at forbes.com, has traveled to over 100 countries, written nine books, including Places I Remember, and contributed to many guidebooks. Contact Lea  @lealane on Twitter; PlacesIRememberLeaLane on Insta; on  Facebook, it's Places I Remember with Lea Lane. Website: placesirememberlealane.com.  New episodes drop every other week, on Tuesdays. Please follow, rate and review this award-winning travel podcast!

Need More Sheep company is in its 50th year managing the resources in the federal lands of Nevada. It is quite apparent that Federal Goverment is righ now putting on a power play to chase him out for good.

McKaila is going to a rocker themed bachelorette party & Chris is excited about it!

Kinda Murdery welcomes Derek Hayes from Monsters Among Us (MAU) Podcast!   "The KING of the THINGS that Go Bump in the Night!"  First, we head to Samoa, CA circa 1971 for a killer Catch-22 and the murder of small-time drug dealer, Edward King. Then, Derek tells us about a famous missing person case that hits a little too close to home...Literally.  Don't forget to rate, review, follow and subscribe!   Find us online at: https://audioboom.com/channels/5063037?page=2 Follow us on Twitter  Instagram  Facebook Monsters Among Us Website MAU's Social Media: Twitter Instagram Facebook Patreon Credits: Kinda Murdery is Created, Researched, and Hosted by Zevon Odelberg Edited and Produced by Zevon Odelberg Theme by Niall Madden Art by The Djinn of Leng Intro Outro Credits by Xiao Hui If you'd like to advertise with us or sponsor us, please e-mail: kindamurdery@gmail.com Update Description

Looking for ONE classroom idea that could make your spring awesome? You are in the right place. In this episode we will take a deck of Uno cards and show you how to: increase student motivation, decrease problematic behaviors, boost classroom camaraderie, and create SO much fun. Literally all you need to implement this super simple, but super effective idea is a deck of uno cards and a classroom of kids. I promise you will want to implement this idea immediately! Episode Notes:  Need a Teacher Boost this Spring? Check out this awesome virtual course: monicagenta.com/courses Get a free PDF copy of Monica's Book Crushing It For Kids Here: http://bit.ly/MonicaGenta Want some Awesome PD At Your School? Let's Connect:  http://monicagenta.com/pd Connect with Monica on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/monicagentaed/ Facebook: facebook.com/MonicaGentaEd Twiiter: twitter.com/monicagentaed ss

welll y'all knew it was coming -- with the latest slew of attacks on trans and queer youth, we go through what's happening, resistance on the ground, and ways we experience trans and queer joy! aclu tracker: https://www.aclu.org/legislation-affecting-lgbtq-rights-across-country theme music as always by brandon payton-carrillo

This week on our nationally syndicated radio show, we learn how heartbreak can have physiological consequences on the heart and other organ systems. Broken Heart Syndrome, also called Takotsubo, is a form of stress cardiomyopathy. The effects of stress hormones due to an emotional blow or a serious illness can weaken the heart muscle. A […]

Valerie Bertinelli and Rob Lowe are living their best lives on Literally this week. The incredible conversation goes everywhere—from Malibu hangs, and roofing houses during the 80s actor's strike, to all the Van Halen DRAMA. On today's episode you'll also find out how Valerie got her role on One Day at a Time, and the unique gift MJ gave Eddie after recording a solo on Beat It! Got a question for Rob? Call our voicemail at (323) 570-4551. Yours could get featured on the show!