Podcasts about Awana

Introduction: 5 Reasons Pastors Should Be Paid: (1 Corinthians 9:1-14) It's COMMON Sense. (1 Cor 9:7) It's a CONCERN in the Law. (1 Cor 9:8-11) 1 Timothy 5:17-18 - Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” It's CLAIMED By Others. (1 Cor 9:12) It's a CUSTOM from the Old Testament. (1 Cor 9:13) It's COMMANDED By Jesus. (1 Cor 9:14) Luke 10:7 – for the laborer deserves his wages. Matthew 10:10 - the laborer deserves his food. Sermon Notes (PDF): BLANKHint: Highlight blanks above for answers! Audio Transcript 00:36-00:40Open up those Bibles to 1 Corinthians 9.00:44-00:52The title of today's message is, "Should Pastors Be Paid?" Yeah.00:54-00:57I'd like to invite the worship team to come back up as we close.00:58-01:00If you want to worship through giving, the offering.01:04-01:09You're like, "You better earn that pay." Fair, fair.01:09-01:12You know, I was associate pastor for 11 years.01:12-01:16And one of the things that I did was run the Wednesday night program.01:16-01:18It was pioneer clubs like Awana's.01:18-01:26But I'll never forget one girl who was lifelong member of the church from forever.01:26-01:27She the one little girl came up.01:28-01:39She goes, "Pastor Jeff, where do you work?" And I'm not gonna say her name 'cause she's an adult now and might be watching this, but I said, "Well, you know where I work.01:40-01:42"I'm one of the pastors here at the church." She just rolled her eyes.01:42-01:46She goes, "I know that, but I mean, where do you work?01:46-01:49"Like, what's your job?01:49-02:02"Like, what do you do to get paid?" I'm like, "You know, just when you start "to feel pretty good about yourself." Along comes some kid to bring you right back down to earth, right?02:03-02:03Where do you work?02:07-02:09Many people hold that opinion, right?02:10-02:12I mean, being a pastor isn't really work.02:15-02:19You know, my favorite, you only work for one hour a week.02:23-02:24And you know what?02:24-02:25I've heard that so many times.02:25-02:27I'm quick to correct people on that.02:28-02:28I'm like, "No.02:31-02:32I don't work the whole hour.02:34-02:36My part's only like 35 minutes.02:37-02:43I work 35 minutes a week." So should pastors be paid?02:44-02:47When you bring it up, people get weird.02:48-02:49People get weird.02:49-02:51Everybody's evaluating the pastor's car.02:53-02:55Everybody's evaluating the pastor's house.02:55-02:58Everybody's evaluating the pastor's clothes.02:59-03:00How much is he making?03:03-03:05You know nobody does that for other professions, right?03:08-03:18Like for example, if somebody here is a nurse and you pull up to church driving a Boxter, what are people gonna say?03:18-03:20"Good for her, good for her.03:21-03:23Wow, I am so happy for her.03:26-03:31If I drove up driving a Porsche, what are people gonna say?03:35-03:36How much is he making?03:40-03:49I've heard a lot of things over the years, statements people have made, their little evaluations on how pastors should be paid.03:49-03:51I just want to share a couple with you.03:51-03:53Just this is, these amuse me.03:54-03:57But one person told me this regarding how a pastor should be paid.03:58-04:10He said, "A pastor shouldn't make more "than the lowest paid congregant." So we should find out who in the church makes the least and that should determine the pastor's salary.04:13-04:17Because after all, the pastor shouldn't make more than anybody else in the church.04:19-04:20I had one guy tell me this.04:21-04:31He goes, "I have a real problem "with preachers getting paid by the church." And I said, "What's the issue with that?" He goes, "Think about it this way.04:33-04:35"You teach tithing, right?04:35-04:55"10%." I'm like, "I'm following you." He goes, "Okay, so if 10 people give 10%, "now automatically the pastor's making "more than everybody in the church." And I'm like, you're gonna have to back up here 'cause you lost me somewhere on that math.04:57-04:58I mean, does that math work out?05:01-05:02Should pastors be paid?05:04-05:05Awkward.05:05-05:07Right, it's an awkward subject.05:07-05:10Can we just get that under, it's an awkward subject to stand up and preach about.05:10-05:11You're like, well then why are you?05:12-05:17Because we're going through the book of 1 Corinthians and guess what the subject is of this next section that we are going in?05:18-05:24"Should pastors be paid?" Yeah, it's going to be awkward to talk about, but you don't be more awkward than that, skipping it.05:26-05:26Right?05:26-05:29Because didn't God put it in His Word for a reason?05:30-05:31And we don't skip anything here.05:32-05:33So we're going after it.05:34-05:35We're just going to go after it.05:35-05:36Should pastors be paid?05:37-05:39The Bible is clear, yes.05:41-05:50But some ministers, you know, they live lavishly, and they demand that the church pay for the their extravagant lifestyle, and that is wrong.05:52-05:59But we can't just disregard what the Bible says just because some people have abused the privilege.06:02-06:06This section here, we're in 1 Corinthians, it's about liberty.06:08-06:21You're like, "Well, what is liberty?" It's this, you know, to be saved means that you have to turn from your sin and receive Jesus Christ.06:21-06:34And when you receive Him, you believe that Jesus died for your sin, when you believe that Jesus resurrected from the dead, when you believe that, the Bible says you are adopted as a child of God.06:34-06:36And nothing can change that.06:37-06:40Nothing can separate you from the love of God in Jesus Christ.06:41-06:41Nothing.06:42-06:46When you are saved, you are saved as a gift of God's grace.06:47-06:48Nothing can change that.06:51-06:54So understand your salvation is not performance-based.06:56-06:58So that means there's nothing you can do.06:58-07:01If you're saved, there's nothing you can do that would disqualify you from being a child of God.07:01-07:02It's not performance-based.07:04-07:12So the extreme view of that is, well, if it's not performance-based, I'm free to do whatever I want.07:15-07:16And that's what we're looking at in this section.07:17-07:19Am I free to do whatever I want?07:19-07:38Their particular issue, we talked about this last week, was they were, some of the more mature Christians were eating meat that was sacrificed to idols, and they were like, "A burger's a burger." But it bothered some of the weaker Christians who came out of the pagan background and said, You don't want to touch meat that was used in pagan worship.07:39-07:46And Paul says, "Love says, 'I will give up my rights if it keeps a brother from stumbling.'" I'll give up my rights.07:49-08:02So understand here in this section that we're looking at today, Paul is saying, "Corinthians, I'm not asking you to do anything that I'm not willing to do.08:05-08:10Paul is saying here in this section we're looking at, I am laying down a freedom that I have.08:10-08:13I have the freedom to get paid by the church.08:13-08:15And Paul says, I laid that freedom down.08:17-08:23We're going to talk more about that part of it next week, but why would Paul lay that freedom down?08:23-08:25He knew it would bring offense.08:27-08:31You see, he knew that there were going to be some people that thought, "Oh, look at this guy.08:31-08:35There's this new religion and he's using it to cash in.08:35-08:36He's using it just to make money.08:37-08:40He's trying to rip you off." So Paul got a job making tents.08:40-09:03So he's like, "I'm not going to be a financial burden to anybody because I don't want anybody to think that I have an ulterior motive in preaching the gospel." So chapter 9, the section we're looking at today illustrates this whole giving up my liberty issue. I have the freedom to not use my freedom.09:05-09:18All right, let's bow. I'm going to ask you to pray for me to be faithful to communicate God's Word, and I will pray for you to have a heart open to receive it, and then we'll go right after it. Let's just take a moment and pray.09:22-09:23by your name and your word, Father.09:26-09:30We ask you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior forever.09:31-09:35And all of God's people said, amen.09:36-09:42All right, so the Corinthians are like, hey, we are free in Christ to do what we want.09:42-09:44Look at chapter nine, verse one.09:45-09:46Paul says, am I not free?09:48-09:49Am I not an apostle?09:51-09:52Paul's like, "I'm free.09:53-09:55"I'm free to, you know about your freedom?09:55-10:08"I'm free too." And Paul says, "By the way, I'm not just a pew sitter." Okay, he's like, "I'm an apostle." And as always, when the issue comes up, you're going to have a group of people that were like, "Are you, Paul?10:08-10:09"Are you really an apostle?10:09-10:13"Are you really?" Oh, look at what he says.10:15-10:18"Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?10:18-10:25"Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?" Paul was always defending himself.10:25-10:27And right here he goes, "Yeah, I am an apostle.10:27-10:28"I'll give you two proofs.10:28-10:30"One is the big one.10:30-10:37"To be an apostle, you had to have seen "the resurrected Jesus Christ." And Paul's like, "I've seen him." Like, did Paul see Jesus?10:37-10:39Yeah, at least three times.10:39-10:42Oh, by the way, one of those times was actually in Corinth.10:42-10:43What's that, Acts chapter 18?10:46-10:56Paul says, "I have another proof." He goes, "You want another proof of my apostleship?" He goes, "You, you are my proof." What do you mean by that?10:56-10:57Look at verses two and three.10:58-11:07He says, "If to others I am not an apostle, "at least I am to you, "for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.11:08-11:30"This is my defense to those who would examine me." Paul says, "Some might not believe that I'm apostle, but you cannot deny the way that the Lord has worked through me to you." He says, "You're my seal." See, in those days, if somebody wanted to authenticate a letter, they would put a wax seal with the signet ring.11:31-11:32That was to say, "This is genuine.11:32-11:35This is real." Paul goes, "You want to know that I'm real?11:35-11:48Do you want to know that I'm authentic?" He goes, "You're my proof, because God has ministered the gospel through me to you." These are the evidences that I'm an apostle.11:48-11:53So, verse 4, do we not have the right to eat and drink?11:55-11:57That's obviously sarcasm.11:58-12:03I was like, "Yeah, I'm an apostle and God has used me, so I'm not allowed to eat?" Is that what you're saying?12:06-12:10I've been faithful to your souls, I've been faithful to the Lord, but I don't get to eat?12:11-12:20He's saying, "I don't get to… are you saying that I don't get to earn a living from the work that I do in the Lord?" Look at verse 5.12:24-12:32He says, "Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?12:34-12:39Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?12:41-12:49Paul's like, "Other ministers are supported." So much so that other ministers actually take their wives along with them.12:50-12:52So you support them.12:56-12:57What about me?12:57-13:00Do I have the right to be supported by the church?13:01-13:03See what Paul's doing here.13:03-13:06in this little introduction, he's setting this all up.13:07-13:19He goes, "This freedom that I am laying down, is it actually a freedom that I have?" As we look at verses 7-14, Paul here is establishing that this is a right.13:19-13:21This is legitimate.13:21-13:25Ministers have the right to be supported by the church.13:25-13:26He's proving that in this section.13:29-13:35And in Paul's day, as in ours, there are people that are going to doubt the premise.13:36-13:38Like, really, should ministers be paid?13:38-13:38Really?13:39-13:40Not sure about that.13:40-13:41Should they, is it really work?13:42-13:4635 minutes, rather, 35 minutes a week, is that really work?13:47-13:48Should we be paying you for that?13:52-13:56Well, Paul gives five reasons why you should pay the pastor.13:57-13:57All right?13:59-14:00"Jot these down.14:00-14:08By the way, you're paying me overtime this week 'cause I spent some extra time making sure these were alliterated.14:09-14:12I don't always do that, but when I do, I charge extra.14:13-14:23And I charge by the word, that's why the sermons are so long." So five reasons a pastor should be paid.14:23-14:24Number one, I love this.14:24-14:26He just knocks this one right out.14:26-14:26It's common sense.14:27-14:28It's common sense.14:28-14:30Look at verse 7.14:32-14:36Paul says, "Who serves as a soldier at his own expense?14:38-14:40Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit?14:41-14:48Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?" Obvious point, right?14:49-14:52A man earns his living by his work.14:53-14:55And he gives three examples.14:56-15:00A soldier, a farmer, and a shepherd.15:03-15:09Imagine as Paul calls us to here, imagine doing those jobs at your own expense.15:10-15:11Imagine that.15:11-15:13That's ludicrous, right?15:14-15:14Like what do you do?15:14-15:15I work at Target.15:17-15:17Why do you work at Target?15:18-15:25"Well, just trying to pay the bills so in my free time I can be in the army." Like what?15:26-15:27Paul's like, "Who does that?15:28-15:36That's called a hobby if you're doing it without being compensated.15:36-15:41Their families are fed from the work that they do." So it should be true for pastors.15:41-15:42It's common sense.15:43-15:47should earn from the work that they do.15:50-15:55And I have to add, church, that this is also extremely practical when you think about it.15:55-15:57The church benefits from a focused pastor.16:00-16:05You're going to get your best work from the pastor if he's not distracted.16:06-16:07I mean, think about it.16:07-16:43If the pastor has to provide for his family by working another job, how much gas is left tank to be a pastor. And you're like, "Eh, doesn't look that hard." Well, I want you to think about your job, whatever you do. You're nine to five, whether you work in a bank, work in HVAC, community, you know, some kind of like social service function, think Think of what you do.16:44-16:52When your shift ends, do you feel like you would be able to effectively pastor a church on top of that?16:55-16:59Again, I don't care if you're with the police, a computer programmer.17:00-17:05Imagine working all day doing that, and then you get home and now you've got to write a sermon.17:06-17:07Oh, and you have two counseling appointments.17:07-17:09And make sure you squeeze time in.17:09-17:17you've got to follow up with these new people at church, oh, and then you have a ministry team meeting on top of that.17:17-17:21Are you really going to do all of that on top of your nine to five?17:24-17:25It's common sense.17:26-17:33You see, if a pastor has to work another job, it's easy for him to phone it in when it comes to the church work, right?17:33-17:37Well, I've got to work at Target so that I can pay my bills.17:38-17:39the church stuff is just going to have to wait.17:39-17:42I sure hope they're not expecting a decent sermon this week.17:44-17:45It's just common sense.17:45-17:47People should get wages.17:49-17:52People should benefit from their workplace.17:52-17:53That's where he starts.17:54-17:55It's common sense.17:55-17:58Number two, five reasons pastors should be paid.17:58-18:02Five reasons Paul says this is a right for pastors to be paid.18:02-18:05Number two is it's a concern in the law.18:05-18:06It's a concern in the law.18:09-18:10Like, what do you mean?18:10-18:11Well, look at verse eight.18:12-18:17Paul says, "Do I say these things on human authority?" Like, you think I'm making this up?18:19-18:22He says, "Does not the law say the same?18:23-18:37"For it is written in the law of Moses, "you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." That's Deuteronomy 25 verse 4.18:38-18:43Like, what do you mean an ox treading out the grain?18:43-18:47It was actually an Egyptian trick that Israel adopted.18:49-19:01They would tie a big round flat stone to an ox, and they would have the ox drag the stone over the wheat to crush it to remove the husk.19:03-19:13Okay, so you have this ox helping you prepare food, doing this hard work of dragging a stone.19:13-19:19Now how cruel would it be to put a muzzle on the ox while he's doing that?19:19-19:22Like you have to drag the stone, but you're not allowed to eat.19:23-19:27Oh, you're going to stand on top of food all day, but you're not allowed to take a bite.19:28-19:28That's inhumane.19:36-19:37That's the point.19:39-19:41Look at verse 9, second part.19:44-19:56He says, "Is it for oxen that God is concerned?" Does He not speak entirely for our sake?19:57-20:15It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope, and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop." See Paul's point, you know, the whole don't muzzle an ox while it's treading out the grain.20:15-20:27Paul's like, "You think God's concerned about the ox?" Look, I don't think God has anything against ox, oxen, oxes, oxen, oxen.20:27-20:28Thank you, Randy.20:28-20:28Oxen.20:28-20:31I don't think God's against oxen.20:31-20:32He created them.20:32-20:33I think God loves oxen.20:34-20:42Paul's like, "Do you think he wrote that in the law for the oxen who are going to be reading the law?" Like, "Hey, wait a second.20:43-20:48You're not supposed to muzzle me while I'm working." I think he didn't write that for the oxen.20:50-20:51But don't do it now.20:51-20:52You can do it later.20:53-20:56You get some time, turn back to that reference in Deuteronomy.20:56-21:01And you're going to see that section of Deuteronomy has nothing to do with animals.21:02-21:05Nothing to do with how to treat the livestock.21:05-21:06It has nothing to do with that.21:07-21:12It has everything to do with people.21:12-21:13And how you treat people.21:15-21:17You see, it's a figure of speech.21:17-21:21We use animals in figures of speech all the time, don't we?21:22-21:25Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, two birds with one stone, all of that.21:25-21:26It was a figure of speech.21:28-21:36And Paul reminds us here, look, when God wrote that through Moses, He wasn't really concerned about the oxen, He was concerned about man.21:38-21:44And the point of that expression is the worker deserves to benefit from his work, obviously, right?21:45-22:02Luke 11, he says, "If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?" Sown spiritual things.22:05-22:09That's all I'm trying to do for this church.22:10-22:13There are many people in this church that I have led to Christ.22:16-22:23There's many people in this church that I've not only taught the Bible, but I've taught how to teach the Bible.22:25-22:35There are people in this church that I have counseled out of disaster, comforted you and your family at funerals.22:36-22:37I married a lot of people here.22:39-22:45I've come along leaders to try to encourage them in their particular ministries.22:46-22:57None of this is meant to be boastful or "Hey, look at me." I'm just saying objectively, this is what I'm striving to do among you.22:59-23:01So is it out of line to support me in doing those things?23:03-23:05Am I asking too much?23:07-23:10Or do you see no value in anything that I do?23:12-23:16Now look, I am so thankful.23:16-23:18This church has always supported me and my family.23:20-23:24And I am so thankful to God for you and your support.23:27-23:34It would absolutely grieve me though if you thought that I wasn't worth it.23:35-23:43Like, yeah, we'll support him, but I mean, does he really bring something to the table?23:48-23:57Some churches, well, they do justify no pay or meager pay for the pastors.23:58-23:59Some churches justify that.23:59-24:01You can't pay the pastor very much.24:01-24:01Why?24:02-24:04Gotta keep 'em humble, right Pastor Taylor?24:06-24:07Gotta keep 'em humble.24:07-24:11Pastor Taylor gets paid two Kit Kats a week, that's all he gets from the church.24:12-24:14Because we're gonna keep 'em humble.24:16-24:18We don't want 'em to get swollen head.24:19-24:21So we gotta keep 'em humble.24:21-24:30Listen, that is an unbiblical mindset, completely backwards to what the Bible says about the way you treat your pastor.24:31-24:32Right?24:34-24:371 Timothy 5, look what Paul told Timothy.24:38-24:50He says, "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching." You know what he means by double honor?24:51-24:55He doesn't mean like, thank you, thank you.24:58-24:58Great job, great job.24:58-24:59That's not what he means at all.25:00-25:02You look at the context, he's talking about pay.25:04-25:07He's saying you should double my pay.25:09-25:11You get the point there, right?25:12-25:14Not keep them humble.25:14-25:17He's like, those who preach the word of God deserve double honor.25:18-25:24He says, for the scripture says, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.25:25-25:29and the laborer deserves his wages.25:33-25:37And right now some Bible scholar is like, oh, okay, don't muzzle the ox.25:38-25:40Okay, Pastor Jeff, that's Old Testament.25:40-25:42We don't live under the Old Testament.25:45-25:52Well, we abide under the principles of the law, especially when they're repeated in the New Testament.25:53-25:53All right?25:54-25:55The five reasons pastors should be paid.25:56-25:58Paul says it's common sense.25:58-25:59It's a concern in the law.25:59-26:01Number three, write this down, it's claimed by others.26:02-26:04It's claimed by others.26:07-26:21Verse 12, he says, "If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?" Paul's like, "Oh, by the way, it's not weird or unusual.26:23-26:25In fact, there's precedent for it.26:27-26:27Right?26:28-26:30Many of you do support others.26:31-26:39And you should, but there's many people here that you're like, I support certain missionaries or I support world vision, or I support Samaritan's Purse.26:39-26:41I support all these people.26:41-26:46And Paul here is just simply saying, hey, what about the shepherd who has devoted his life to caring for you?26:47-26:47What about that guy?26:48-26:49Should he be paid?26:49-26:50Should he be supported?26:53-27:03And my whole life revolves around caring for you, praying for you, discipling you.27:06-27:15And some people are like, "Well, you know, I listen to such and such preacher on the Facebooks or the YouTubes or whatever.27:15-27:22I listen to Jack Hibbs, so my tithe goes to Jack Hibbs." Okay.27:28-27:32But when you need counseling, do you think Jack Hibbs is going to come and counsel you?27:34-27:39You know, if you have a tragedy, do you think Jack Hibbs is going to be at your house to pray for you, pray with you?27:42-27:43Does Jack Hibbs even know who you are?27:46-27:46That's Paul's point here.27:47-27:49Paul's like, "Others share the rightful claim.27:49-28:12"You support others." Paul's like, "How can you not support the one who loves you?" He goes on in verse 12, he goes, "Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, "but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle "in the way of the gospel of Christ." That's the whole point of broaching the subject.28:13-28:25We have the freedom to get paid, but Paul says, "I laid that freedom down." Just as I'm telling you to do about eating the meat sacrifice to the idols, it's okay.28:25-28:28It's okay to lay your freedom down sometimes.28:30-28:32We're going to get into that more next week.28:33-28:36This week though, he's giving us five reasons a preacher should be paid.28:36-28:39And here's number four, it's a custom from the Old Testament.28:40-28:46It's common sense, it's a concern in the law, it's claimed by others, and it's a custom from the Old Testament.28:47-28:48Look at verse 13.28:49-29:03He says, "Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings.29:06-29:09Do a little study sometime, Old Testament law.29:09-29:16In the Old Testament, priests were supported for their work by their work.29:18-29:26All of the sacrifices that were given under Old Testament law realized the priest received a portion of what was offered in some way, shape, or form.29:26-29:27That's what Paul's talking about here.29:31-29:41And I was studying this this week, and I'm like, why did he sort of, he kind of said that in verse seven, right?29:42-29:43The same thing.29:43-29:46So why did he bring this up again?29:46-29:47And then it hit me.29:50-29:54Verse seven, he gave secular examples.29:56-29:57You know, the soldier, the farmer, the shepherd.29:57-29:59He gave secular examples.29:59-30:23And there are some in the church that would say, "Okay, Paul, you're using secular reasoning and you're trying to apply it to the spiritual realm." And I think what Paul's doing here is saying, "Look, yes, this principle, you should be supported for the work that you do, by your work." It's true in the secular world and it's true in the sacred world too.30:23-30:25So Paul's like, "Don't act like this is a new thing.30:26-30:31supporting the spiritual leaders, because it's a custom that goes way back to the Old Testament.30:35-30:40Number five, five reasons pastors should be paid.30:41-30:45It's common sense, it's a concern in the law, it's claimed by others, it's a custom from the Old Testament.30:46-30:57Last and probably most important, I would say, I think that's why it's last, it's commanded by Jesus.31:00-31:01It's commanded by Jesus.31:02-31:17Look at verse 14, "In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel." Wait a minute, when did Jesus say that?31:18-31:20Well, He said that a couple of times.31:21-31:34In Luke chapter 10, Jesus was sending out the 72 and He was talking about, you can look this up later, the people that believe you should be the ones that feed you.31:34-31:41So Jesus in sending them out said, "For the laborer deserves his wages." What's the context of that?31:42-32:06And again in Matthew 10, verse 10, Jesus was sending out the twelve, and He says, "The people that believe you should be the people who support you." And that's why He said, "The laborer deserves his food." In both cases, Jesus was saying those who preach the gospel must be supported by those who believe the gospel.32:07-32:14In other words, believers, we could say church members, should financially support their leaders.32:17-32:23If you're a guest here today, I want you to understand you're under no obligation to give.32:24-32:29Don't feel guilty or like, "Well, I probably should." If you're a guest, be our guest.32:31-32:32There's zero obligation.32:35-32:37is something that we are to share as a church family.32:39-32:39All right?32:43-32:45But nevertheless, the Lord commanded it.32:46-32:48Those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.32:50-33:01So Paul, in this whole section, is saying as a minister of the gospel, I have every right to expect you to support me, but I laid that right down.33:03-33:19I thought it might be an obstacle to the work, so because I love you, I didn't take financial support from you." Paul's like, "I'm trying to show you something, that when you love, you're willing to lay down your rights.33:21-33:56When you love, you're willing to lay down your freedoms." Paul is just simply saying, as we'll see next week, "Follow my example." Right now you're like, "Okay, pay the pastor, fine." Well my hope is not that you reluctantly get on board with giving, but I want you to see the bigger picture of why you give.33:57-34:00Yes, giving primarily is an act of worship.34:00-34:01We've had a whole sermon series about that.34:02-34:03Giving is an act of worship.34:04-34:08But also I want you to think about the tangible effects of giving.34:11-34:14When you give, my family is supported.34:16-34:22And that frees me from trying to do ministry on top of a nine to five job.34:22-34:25It lets me stay focused on caring for you.34:25-34:35Understand that when you give, look at the big picture, you're freeing me up so that I can care for everybody in this church to the best of my ability.34:39-34:39Everyone benefits.34:41-34:44When you give, other staff are paid.34:44-34:47That allows us to worship in excellent music.34:48-35:07It helps us disciple your children and young adults to minister on a personal level through the oversight of our entire small group ministry and so many more things that are able to happen that couldn't happen if you weren't financially supporting the leadership of the church.35:09-35:15Oh, oh, oh, and when you give, understand that you're supporting a whole network of ministers in Thailand.35:17-35:30Do you know in northern Thailand and beyond, we have 23 churches, we have four children's homes, we have a Bible institute, and do you know how many people stateside support them?35:33-35:34Just this church.35:35-35:49You, when you give, you are allowing the work of evangelism happen all over that area of the world through our network of churches.35:52-35:55Disciples are made all over Northern Thailand and beyond.35:57-36:08When you give, that is your way of actively partnering with me in advancing the kingdom of Jesus Christ.36:10-36:12I'd like you to bow your heads as the worship team makes their way up.36:16-36:29Father in heaven, it felt awkward to have to give a message like this, but God, it's your word.36:29-36:30We don't skip anything.36:32-36:34We just want to go after what you said.36:35-36:46Father, I thank you for the way that this church has always sought to support me and my family.36:48-36:53Financially sure, but so many other ways this church has sought to bless and protect my family.36:54-36:55God, I thank you so much for these people.36:56-36:58This is from you, God, and I thank you for that.36:59-37:11I just pray, Father, that looking at a passage like this, you would give us sort of a bigger picture of the way your economy works and why you have called us to certain things that you've called us to.37:15-37:24God, we believe that all things are yours, and we believe, God, that you have called us to be faithful stewards with everything that you give us.37:27-37:32We thank you for the privilege and all the ways that you've called us to partner with you in the work of the ministry.37:33-37:38Thank You, Father, for the spirit of generosity that You have stirred among Your people here.37:39-37:47And as King David prayed in preparation for the temple, might that spirit always be found in Your people.37:48-37:50We pray in Jesus' name, amen. Small Group DiscussionRead 1 Corinthians 9:1-14What was your big take-away from this passage / message?Explain why Paul broaches the subject of paying the pastor in the first place. What does that have to do with their question about Christian liberty?What are some practical benefits that come when a pastor doesn't have to work outside the church?How would you respond to someone who says, “Pastors should have a job like everyone else! It's not fair that the pastor has money when some people in the congregation are struggling financially.”BreakoutPray for one another.

  In this weeks Kids Ministry Collective Podcast, Our conversation asked the question: What if the biggest threat to your child's faith isn't what you think? Matt Markins, CEO of Awana, sits down with Tom and Ben to expose the counterfeit narratives quietly shaping kids' identities—often before they even turn 13. From screens to peers to well-meaning but watered-down Bible teaching, kids are absorbing stories that compete with the gospel every single day. In this conversation, Matt reveals his own battle with false narratives from childhood trauma, unpacks why "Bible light" moralism backfires, and shares practical tools to anchor children in the true story of Scripture: creation, fall, redemption, and restoration. If you're a parent, pastor, or ministry leader who wants to equip kids to stand firm in a culture of confusion, this episode is a must-listen. Mentioned on Episode:  Child Discipleship Forum BRITE Curriculum Kids Ministry Collective THE PLACE FOR KIDMIN!

1 Timothy 4:8 NIV “For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.”   *Transcription Below*   Brian Smith, author of The Christian Athlete: Glorifying God in Sports, is a staff member with Athletes in Action and a cross-country coach at Lowell High School. A former collegiate runner at Wake Forest University, he earned a BA in Communications and Journalism before completing his MA in Theology and Sports Studies at Baylor University's Truett Theological Seminary. Brian lives in Lowell, MI with his wife and three children. You can find him on Twitter @BrianSmithAIA.   Ed Uszynski is an author, speaker, and sports minister with over three decades' experience discipling college and professional athletes. With a heart for reconciliation and justice, he also works as a racial literacy consultant and marriage conference speaker, blending Biblical wisdom with practical living in the midst of complex cultural realities. He has two theological degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and a PhD in American Culture Studies from Bowling Green State University. He and his wife Amy have four children and live in Xenia, Ohio.   The Christian Athlete Website   Thank You to Our Sponsor:  Sam Leman Eureka   Questions and Topics We Cover: What is one of kids' greatest game day complaints?  Is it true that young athletic success is a predictor of adult athletic success? What are a few tips for instilling a heart of gratitude in our young athlete, rather than entitlement?   Related Savvy Sauce Episode: 230 Intentional Parenting in All The Stages with Dr. Rob Rienow   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:11)   Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 1:51) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka.   Owned and operated by the Bertschi family, Sam Leman and Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over Central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at lemangm.com.   Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski are my guests for today.   They are co-authors of this recent amazing book entitled, A Way Game, A Christian Parents Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. And from the very beginning, I was captivated, even with one of the endorsements from Matt Martens, who's the president and CEO of Awana, and he summed it up this way, A Way Game provides a much needed perspective shift on one of the most sacred idols in our culture, youth sports. So, Brian and Ed are all for youth sports, and yet you're going to hear there's a different way to approach it than what we've been trained in culture.   And they're going to share some wonderful and very practical insights. I can't wait to share this with you. Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Ed and Brian.   Ed Uszynski & Brian Smith: (1:51 - 1:54) Thanks for having us, Laura. Yeah, good to be here, Laura.   Laura Dugger: (1:54 - 2:04) So, excited about this chat. And will the two of you just start us off by sharing your family's stage of life and your involvement in sports?   Brian Smith: (2:05 - 3:29) Yeah, there could be a lot on the back end of that question. I'll start with sports, then get into family. I've been involved in sports my entire life, played every sport imaginable growing up, got cut from just about every single sport my freshman year of high school, ended up running track and cross country because it was the only sports that you could not get cut from at my high school.   And I ended up being pretty good at it by the time I was a senior, won some state championships, ended up getting a scholarship to run at Wake Forest University. So, I did that for four years right out of college. I coached a little bit collegiately.   Soon after that, I joined staff with a sports ministry called Athletes in Action that Ed and I have a combined 50 years with Athletes in Action. And really, that's been my life ever since. I've been ministering to college and pro athletes, discipling them, helping them figure out what does that actually look like to integrate faith in sport.   Even today, I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I coach high school cross country while I'm still on staff with Athletes in Action. I have a middle school Bible study that I run on Wednesday mornings.   Been married to my wife, who I actually met in high school. She was a distance runner too, and she ran at Wisconsin. So, we've been married for 20 years.   We have three kids, a high schooler, a middle schooler, and an elementary schooler who are all involved in sport at some level, some way, shape, or form.   Laura Dugger: (3:30 - 3:34) Wow, that's incredible. Thank you, Brian. And Ed, what about you?   Ed Uszynski: (3:34 - 5:04) Well, my story is very parallel to Brian's, just different sports and some different numbers. Just tack on 15 years. Yeah, I was a basketball player.   Grew up on the west side of Cleveland with a high school football coach. My dad was, but I was a basketball player. I played at high levels all the way through my 20s, got to play overseas.   I mean, this was a long time ago, but I got everything I could out of that sport. And as soon as I graduated from college, though, I started to work with that Athletes in Action ministry that Brian mentioned. So, I've been working with college and professional athletes for 34 years now.   And same, coached at different levels, have four kids. Amy and I have been married for 26 years. We have four kids, three are in college, and one's in ninth grade, who has a game this afternoon, actually.   So, we've just been going to games and have been involved in going to sports stuff for the last 20 years with our kids. And really what happened with Brian, and I is that we looked up a decade ago and realized this youth sports thing was a fast train that was moving in directions that we weren't used to ourselves, even though we've been around sports our whole life. It's like, there's something different happening now.   And then thinking about it as Christians, like, how do we do this well as Christ followers? We don't want to separate from it. We don't want to just go for the ride. How do we do this as Christian people? And that's what got us talking about it and eventually led to this book.   Laura Dugger: (5:05 - 5:23) Well, the book was easy to read and incredible. And I'd like to start there where you begin, even where you go back before going forward. So, when you're looking back, what are the factors at play that changed youth sports over time?   Ed Uszynski: (5:26 - 6:17) Well, I'll say this and then Brian, maybe you jump in and throw a couple of them out there. I mean, youth sports is a $40 billion industry today, which is wild to think about. It's four times how much money gets spent on the NFL, which is just staggering.   I can't even hardly believe that that's true, but it is. And it's really just in the last 20 years that that's happened. I mean, 50 years ago, you couldn't have had the youth sport industrial complex, as we refer to it.   You couldn't have had it. There were a bunch of things that had to happen culturally, as is true with any new movement or any paradigm shift that happens in culture. You've got to have certain things be true all at the same time that make it possible.   So, Brian, what were a couple of those? Again, I'll throw it over to you. There's six of them that we talk about in the book. And I think it's really fascinating because I'm a history guy.   Brian Smith: (6:18 - 8:40) Yeah. And we can obviously double click on any of these, Laura, that you want to, but we talk about how the college admissions process became an avenue where youth sports parents saw, man, if we can get our kids involved in some extracurriculars and kind of tag on high level athlete to their resume, it actually helps with the college admissions process. And so even the idea of college scholarships became an opportunity for youth sports parents to get their kids involved.   And then, yeah, maybe sports can actually get them into college. We talk about the economic shifts that happen, the rise of safetyism and helicopter parenting. ESPN was a massive one in 1979.   This thing called ESPN starts, and we get 24-7 coverage of sports, which they started exploring even early on. What does it look like to give coverage to something like Little League World Series and saw that it didn't really matter how young the sport was, it's going to draw a national audience. And so, we've almost been discipled by ESPN really over the last 50 years with this consistent coverage.   We talk about the rise of the sports complex. This one to me is like the most fascinating out of all of them. In 1997, Disney decided to try to get more people to come to their parks.   They built a sports complex, just a massive sports complex. The idea was, are the older kids getting sick of the Buzz Lightyear ride and the Disney princesses? So, let's build a sports complex and maybe it'll be something else that will draw this older crowd too.   And what happened was, I mean, a lot of people started coming to it, but kind of the stake in the ground game changer was when 9-11 hit. In the months and years after that, they saw a lot less people go to their parks, but population actually doubled going to the sports complex, which is wild to think that people were afraid to go to theme parks for a vacation, but they were willing to travel across state lines to play sports at the Disney complex. So other cities and municipalities took notice of that.   Today, there's over 30,000 sports complexes like Disney's, which again, this is all adding to the system of the youth sports industrial complex. Did I miss any, Ed?   Ed Uszynski: (8:41 - 10:47) Well, no, and that's good. And the reason why we even put all that on the table, again, everybody kind of intuitively knows if you're involved, you know, something's not right. But I think it's important to say this is not normal what's happening.   It's a new normal that's been manufactured by a bunch of cultural trends, by a bunch of entrepreneurs that are doing what entrepreneurs do, and they're taking advantage of the moment, and they are generating lots of money around it. So, it should be encouraging. If it's not normal, that means actually there's a counter way of going about this.   There really can be reformation. But when all this money gets involved, the two biggest consequences that come out of that is our kids start getting treated like commodities, which they are, and we could talk the whole time even just about what that means. But maybe even more importantly, or what comes out of that is that beyond their physical development, most coaches and clubs are not paying any attention to their emotional development, their psychological development, their spiritual development, all the different aspects of what it means to be human that, frankly, used to be paid quite a bit more attention to in youth leagues when I was growing up.   I'm 58 now, so I was playing in the 70s and the 80s. And it used to be expected, at least at some level, even among non-Christian people, that you would take those aspects of a kid's life seriously. And now those just aren't prioritized.   And so, what do we do about that? Again, that's kind of our whole point is, well, as Christian people, we're really supposed to be our kid's first discipler anyways. And part of that role and part of taking on that identity is that we would be asking, what is God trying to do in the wholeness of their life, the entirety of their life, even in the context of sports?   So again, I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but that's why we're trying to poke into that to say, oh, we could actually make change. We may not change the whole system. In fact, we won't. Most of us won't be expected to do that, but we can make significant change in our corner of the bleachers and what happens with our kids.   Laura Dugger: (10:48 - 11:05) That's good. And just like you said, to double-click on a few places, first of all, real quick, the 30,000 number, I remember that shocking me in the book, but I'm forgetting now, is that worldwide, the amount of sports complexes or is that just in America?   Brian Smith: (11:05 - 11:06) That's domestically in the US.   Laura Dugger: (11:07 - 11:52) Yeah. That is staggering. And then one other piece, all of this history was new to me as you brought it all together, but it was also fascinated.   This is from page 32. I'll just read your quote. The American youth sports ball began rolling when a British movement fusing spiritual development with physical activity made its way across the Atlantic Ocean at the turn of the last century.   And Ed, that's kind of what you were touching on, that they were mixing, I'm sure, spiritual, psychological discipleship, physical. Can you elaborate more on what was happening and where it originated? Because we've come very far from our origins.   Ed Uszynski: (11:53 - 13:18) Yeah. And there's been a bunch of really great books written about this topic called muscular Christianity. This idea, like you just said, Laura, of wedding physical activity through sports with our spiritual development and expecting and anticipating that somebody that was taking care of their body and that was engaging in sport activity, that was the closest thing to godliness.   That opened up the door for you to also be developing spiritually. And there was an expectation that both of those are going on at the same time. A bunch of criticism about that movement, but it was taken seriously.   The YMCA is actually a huge byproduct of the muscular Christianity movement. The Young Men's Christian Association created space for sports and for athletic activity to take place under the banner of you're also going to grow spiritually as you're doing this. So again, that was a hundred years ago.   And that's not really what AAU stands for today. The different clubs and leagues that we get involved in just don't talk that way anymore. Of course, culture just in general has shifted away from sort of a Judeo-Christian ethic guiding a North Star for us.   Even if we're not Christian people, that used to be more of a North Star. That's gone now. And so, it really is not expected in sports anymore.   Brian Smith: (13:18 - 13:55) And what we're saying is we cannot expect organizations to own that process for our kids. We can't outsource the discipleship of our kids to the youth sports industrial complex or the YMCA or the AAU. It really does start with us as Christian parents to be the primary discipler of our kids.   And there is a way to take what's happening on the field or the court or the pool and turn it into really amazing discipleship opportunities. But it means, and Ed is starting to tease this out, it means we need to change our perspective as parents when we sit in the bleachers or on the sidelines of what we're looking for and even the conversations we have with our kids on the back end.   Laura Dugger: (13:57 - 15:29) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka has been owned and operated by the Bertschi family for over 25 years. A lot has changed in the car business since Sam and Stephen's grandfather, Sam Leman, opened his first Chevrolet dealership over 55 years ago.   If you visit their dealership today though, you'll find that not everything has changed. They still operate their dealership like their grandfather did, with honesty and integrity. Sam and Stephen understand that you have many different choices in where you buy or service your vehicle.   This is why they do everything they can to make the car buying process as easy and hassle-free as possible. They are thankful for the many lasting friendships that began with a simple welcome to Sam Leman's. Their customers keep coming back because they experience something different.   I've known Sam and Stephen and their wives my entire life and I can vouch for their character and integrity, which makes it easy to highly recommend you check them out today. Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread, so come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka. Sam and Stephen would love to see you and they appreciate your business.   Learn more at their website, LemanEureka.com or visit them on Facebook by searching for Sam Leman Eureka. You can also call them on 309-467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship.   Laura Dugger: (15:30 - 15:31) And I want to continue getting into more of those practicals. Do you want to give us just a taste or an example or story of what that might look like?   Brian Smith: (15:32 - 16:54) We keep saying, we keep talking about the importance of the car ride home that it's tempting for us and not us broadly in the U.S., tempting for us, Ed and I, as people who have done this for 50 plus years and who should know better, it's tempting for us as discipled by an ESPN over analyzing everything culture and want to talk about sports to get in the car ride home with our kids and all we want to talk about is how game went, what they did right, what they did wrong, what they could fix next time.   Maybe instead of passing to Tim, they should take the shot next time because they're wide open. They just hit three in a row. So, and what our kids need from us in those moments is less coaching, less criticizing, less critiquing, and they just need us to connect with them.   The stats on kids quitting youth sports is crazy right now. Its 70 percent are quitting before the age of 13, in large part because it's not fun, and a lot of kids are attaching this idea of it not being fun to the car ride home with their parents who, let's say this too, most of us are well-intentioned parents. We're not trying to screw our kids up.   We want what's best for our kids, but the data and the research and the lived experience continues to tell us what our kids need from us is just to take a deep breath, connect with them, less coaching. Ed keeps saying less coaching, more slurpees.   Laura Dugger: (16:55 - 17:07) I like that. And that ties in. Is it called the peak-end principle that you discovered why kids are resisting that critique on the way home?   Brian Smith: (17:07 - 18:17) Yeah, absolutely. The peak-end rule in psychology is known as this: we, just as humans in general, not just kids, we largely remember things in our lives based on the peak moment of that event, but also how the event ends. And so, the peak moment in sport can be anything from something that goes really well, like they scored a goal or made a basket or something that did not go well, just like a massive event that took place that they're going to remember.   But then it's also married to how that event ends. So, if you think for kids, how does every youth sport experience end? It ends with the car ride home.   So, if they're experiencing the car ride home as I did not live up to mom and dad's standards, or there's fear getting into the car because they don't know what their parents are going to say, how are they remembering the totality of their youth sport experience? It is, I didn't, I didn't measure up. I wasn't enough.   It felt like sports was a place that I needed to perform for my parents or my coach. And I always feel a little bit short. We want to help parents see like there's a different path forward that can be more joyful for you, but hopefully more joyful for your kid as well.   Ed Uszynski: (18:17 - 21:37) Well, and, and I'll just, let me keep going with that, Brian. I thought you really articulated all that so well. I can just imagine a parent maybe thinking, was there never a time to correct?   Is there never a time to give input? And we would say, well, of course there, there is, they need far less of it from us than we think they need when it comes to their sport. And again, we can talk about that.   They need far less of that from us. They need us to be their parents, not to be their coaches. Even if we are their coach, they need us to be more their parents.   But there is a time to do it. We're just saying the car ride home is the worst time to do it. And that's usually the time that most of us, you know, we've got two hours of stuff to download with them.   And that's just, it's not a good time. But the other thing that Brian and I keep talking about is how about, what if we had some different metrics that we were even trying to measure? So, most of the time our metrics have to do with their performance.   Like what, what are we grading them on? Again, depending on what the sport is, there's these different things that we're looking for to say, how you did today is based on whether you did this or you didn't do that and whatnot. And we're saying as parents, and again, starting with us, we needed some other metrics that were actually more concerned about what was going on in their soul.   So again, I'm sure we'll talk more about this, but the virtues, how did love show up in the way they competed today? Where that usually is tied to them noticing somebody else. Do I, am I even asking them any questions about that?   Are they experiencing peace in the midst of all this chaos and anxiety that shows up at every game? How do we teach them to experience peace? How do they become other-centered instead of just self-centered all the time in a culture, a sport culture that's teaching them to always be the center of attention and try to be?   So, we just have needed to exchange some of what we had on that performance list, like tamper that down a little bit and maybe expand the list of categories that we're looking for that actually will matter when they're 25. And we keep saying this, our goal is that they'd come home for Thanksgiving when they're 25. And so, we need to stay relationally connected to them and how we act on the car ride home day after day after day after day, year after year is doing something to our relationship.   But we also are recognizing that it's really not going to matter whether Trey finishes with his left hand at the game today when he's 25, it's not going to matter. It's not going to matter probably a year from now, but how he goes through the handshake line after the game and the way he addresses other people, and whether or not he's learning to submit to authority, whether or not he's learning to embrace other people's humanity. Yes, even in the context of sports, that's really going to matter when he's 25.   It's going to matter when he's married. Those are the things that will matter. And we say that as people who are older and have been involved in ministry and have worked with college athletes and see what happens in their lives even after they're finished, and they have no idea who they are anymore.   And this thing that's dominated their life has not actually prepared them well to do life. And that's a problem that we say, let's start changing that when they're six and not hope they're figuring it out when they're 22.   Laura Dugger: (21:38 - 22:11) I love that because that's such a theme throughout those virtues that you talked about, but discipleship and sports are a tool or a way that we can disciple our kids. I also love that you give various questions throughout the book and even quick phrases. So to close that conversation on the car ride home, if we say, okay, that's what I've been coaching the whole way home, what is a question we could ask our child afterwards and a statement we could say and leave it at that and do it a better way?   Brian Smith: (22:12 - 23:56) The question I have consistently asked my kids after learning that I've been doing this the wrong way for a long time, I tweet my question to they get in the car and I say, is there anything that happened today from the game that you want to talk about? And it's frustrating to me because 99% of the time they say, no, can we listen to the radio? And we listen to the radio, or they play a on my phone, but I'm respecting their desire that they're done with what just happened and they're ready to move on to the next thing, even though I really want to talk about what just happened.   And then the statement that I want to make sure that I'm consistently saying that they're hearing is I love you and I'm proud of you. So, game didn't go well. Yeah, you did play well today.   That's okay. Hey, I love you and I'm proud of you. Game went well today.   Awesome. Great job. Hey, I love you and I'm proud of you.   So I want that to be the consistent theme that they're hearing for me, which is hopefully going to help them better understand the gospel later in life, that as they get older and older, hopefully they'll begin to realize it seemed like the way that my mom and dad interacted with me when I was performing in sport, but their love was not attached to my performance. That seems really similar to what I'm learning more and more that Jesus does for me, that I'm trying to do all these things that are good. But from what I'm understanding about the gospel, it seems like Jesus loves me in spite of what I do.   He loves me just because He's connected to me, that God loves me because I'm a son or daughter, not because I'm performing as a son or a daughter. So, in a very real way, I really am hoping that I'm giving a good teaser for my kids now for when they fully experience the gospel as they go through the life.   Ed Uszynski: (23:56 - 24:47) Another really good connecting question. I love how you said all that, Brian, is if they don't want to talk about the game, is it okay, did you have fun today? And they can only go in one of two directions.   No. Well, tell me about that. Why not?   And it opens up the door to talk about, well, because I didn't get to play or because something bad happened. And again, tell me more about that. Tell me more about that.   Or they say, yes, great. What happened that was fun? And it creates a very different conversation in the car.   And it opens up, again, relational possibilities that go way beyond, why do you keep passing it when you should be shooting it? Wow. And just all the different ways that that comes out of us, depending on sport, depending on their age.   But those are great questions. Go ahead, Brian.   Brian Smith: (24:47 - 25:41) I just asked my son this morning. He's a freshman. His wrestling season is almost done.   And I just asked, like, what has been most fun for you in wrestling this year? And his first thing was, I feel like I'm learning a lot. And that's really fun for me, which he's on a really good team.   He's had a lot of success. He's made a lot of good friends. But even that gave me a window into his characters.   My son enjoys and I knew this is true about him. But my son enjoys learning, which means he enjoys the process of getting better and better and better, which can happen in school, it can happen doing stuff in the yard, it can it can also happen in sport. But for me to remember moving forward, yeah, he he's probably going to have a different metric for what's fun in sport than I often do for him.   Yeah, like I wanted to learn. I want him to win though, too. He's happy with learning right now.   So, I need to be happy with that for him.   Ed Uszynski: (25:41 - 26:34) If I can say this, too, again, I don't want to be vulnerable on your behalf. But then knowing this, he's lost a lot this year to really good kids. Yeah.   And so much of the learning has been in the context of losing. So, you as a dad, actually, you could be crushing him because of those losses and what he needs to do to fix that and what he needs to do so that that doesn't happen again. And it's like he's already committed to learning.   How do you just how do you celebrate the loss? Like he took the risk to try something new in this movie. He tried to survive an extra period.   That's a process when and it's we just need to get better at that. Like you genuinely can celebrate that. That's not just a that's not like a participation trophy.   It's acknowledging now, do you're taking you're taking the right steps that are actually making you a winner, even if you don't have more points at the end of the game right now.   Laura Dugger: (26:34 - 26:54) Yeah. Yeah. And that long term win that you're talking about, even with character and you've talked about fun and asking them about fun.   Is it true that that's the main reason kids are dropping out of sports at such a rapid rate before age 13 is that it's just not fun anymore?   Ed Uszynski: (26:55 - 28:58) Yeah. Yeah. And why is it not fun?   And again, this is where Brian and I are always getting in each other's business. And we know that this conversation gets in all of our business as adults. But why is it not fun?   It's not fun because of the coaches and it's not fun because of the parents. We are creating stress. We are creating again collectively because we're all in different places on the on the spectrum on this in terms of what we're actually doing when we show up at games.   But if you even just go to any soccer game and you be quiet and just listen to what's happening and everybody's shouting and screaming things and there's contradictory messages being sent and there's angst at every turn and there's an incredible celebration because this eight year old was able to get the ball to go across the line for another goal. And what that's doing inside the kids is it is creating a not fun atmosphere. Let's just say it like that.   That's a not fun atmosphere when you're eight, when you're 10, when you're trying to figure out how to make your body work. You're trying to learn the game that you're unfamiliar with and you're trying to do what this coach is telling you to do. And you're also trying to do what all the parents are telling you what to do.   And if it's a team sport, you're trying to interact and play with other kids who are all in that same state of disarray, which is very stressful and frustrating. And we're just adding to it. So instead of removing it, instead of playing a role that says, we're going to keep diffusing that stress.   And again, I'll speak for myself. Too often, I have been the one that's actually adding to it. And so, kids are just like, why would I do this?   Why would I want to get in that car again with you? It's not fun. This is a game.   And so, there's a million other things that I can do with my time where I don't have everybody yelling at me and I don't have to listen to you correct me for two hours.   Laura Dugger: (29:00 - 29:21) Well, and one other thing that surprised me, maybe why kids are dropping out, you share on page 47, a quote that research reveals a strange correlation. The more we spend, the less our kids actually enjoy their sport. So, did you have any more insight into that?   Brian Smith: (29:21 - 30:50) Yeah, this was a real study that was done at Utah State. Researchers found that the more money parents are spending, again, let's say well-intentioned parents, the more we're spending in sports, the less our kids are enjoying. And the more they have dug into it, they're finding, and intuitively it makes sense.   If you buy your kid a $600 baseball bat, what's the expectation that they're supposed to do with this really expensive bat? When they swing, they better hit the ball, and they better get on base. If we're going to buy you this expensive of a bat, you can't just have process goals with it.   You better swing and hit it. And that's causing stress for kids. If you travel across state lines and you go to Disney to play at their sports complex, you're not there for vacation.   You're there to perform. So even if parents are saying we're trying to have fun, kids know when you're traveling and you're getting all this good equipment and you're on the elite team and you're receiving the best of the best stuff, they know it comes with some sort of an expectation. College athletes can barely handle that type of pressure and expectations, but we've placed this professional on youth sports from fifth five-year-olds to 15-year-olds, and it's just crushing them.   It's crushing them. Again, college athletes and professional athletes can barely handle it. They need mental health coaches for sports, but we're expecting that our five-year-olds can handle it, and they can't.   Ed Uszynski: (30:51 - 31:19) And they may not even be able to articulate it. So that's the other thing. They may not be able to identify what's actually going on inside and put it into words.   So again, that's why we're trying to sound the alarm for ourselves and for others who are listening, because we can do it different. Again, just to even keep spinning it back in an encouraging direction, we can do this different. We can change this this week in our corner of the bleachers.   We can start over again.   Laura Dugger: (31:21 - 31:48) Absolutely and make a difference. And before we talk about even more of the pros with sports, I think it's also necessary to reflect and maybe even grieve a few things. So, what would you say are some things families are missing out on when they choose youth sports to overfill their calendar, that that's all that they make time for?   What do you think they're missing out on?   Brian Smith: (31:51 - 33:16) Yeah, I think a couple that come to mind are family dinners are a big one. That's big for us in the Smith house, is just having the ability after a long day to sit at the dinner table together, to eat food together, and to process the day and be with one another. But when my kids' practice goes late, it means we're either eating almost towards bedtime or we're eating in different shifts.   And so that's something that we grieve. I think for me, when my schedule is full, I'm tempted to adopt the mindset that what's happening on the wrestling mat or on the track matters more than it actually does. And it robs me of the ability to just take a deep breath and smile and enjoy watching my kids play sports.   That without an intervention or a pregame devotional in the car for myself, I risk sitting in the stands or being on the sidelines, being stressed out and putting pressure on myself and pressure on my kids and gossiping about why the coach didn't put this kid into the people next to me, instead of just enjoying the gift that is sports and watching my kid try and succeed and try and fail. That is a gift available to me as a dad to watch my kid do that. But the busyness often robs me of that perspective.   Ed Uszynski: (33:17 - 36:06) Well, and the busyness robs, again, if you're married, that busyness eventually wears away at your relationship. And it's not just sports. I mean, busyness, we can fill our schedule, overfill our schedules with any number of things.   We can overfill our schedules with church stuff to a point where it becomes detrimental to our relationship. If we don't set boundaries so that we're making sure we're doing what we need to do to be face-to-face and to be going to areas beneath the surface with each other in our relationship and being able to do that with our kids as well, eventually there's negative consequences to that. It may not happen right away, but I've definitely experienced that.   We've experienced that in our home where it's easy to maybe chase one kid around for a while, but what happens when you add three into the mix and you haven't really done a time budget or paid attention to the fact that when we sign up for all these things, you get a month into it and you realize, oh, we have to be in different places at the same time. So, we're not even watching stuff together anymore. We're just running.   I can endure anything for a season, but what youth sports wants now in every sport from the youngest ages is that it becomes a year-round commitment. So, you're not even signing up to play a season anymore. You're signing up for a year in most cases because after the games, then they're going to have training.   They're going to have this other thing going on. And so again, can we say, well, we'll play the actual season, but then we're not going to do the additional training over these next three months. Again, we want to give parents' permission that you can say no to that.   Well, we paid for it. Well, it's okay. If you want your kid to be on that team and you like this club or whatever, then you pay the money and you just say, we're going to sit those three months out and we're going to use those three months actually to have people over our house for dinner.   Again, whatever's on the list, Laura, that you said about being more holistic and not letting sport operate like an idol in our life where it's taken on, it's washed out everything else in our life. We can get back in control of that by just saying no a little bit. You can go to church on Sunday.   Even if there's tournament games going on on Sunday, you can go to the coach early and say, hey, we just, in our family, we just don't want to be available before 12. Are you okay with that? And most of the time coaches will be.   The kid might have to sit extra maybe for not being, whatever. Okay. That's not going to be the end of the world that they had to sit out an extra game or had to sit out a half because they weren't available on Sunday morning.   It might actually make a huge difference that they weren't at church for two and a half years in the most formative time of their life.   Laura Dugger: (36:07 - 37:36) And a lot of times the way of wisdom includes reflection, getting alone with the Lord and asking, have we overstuffed our schedule this conversation today? Let's talk specifically with youth sports. Is that trumping everything else?   Because what if we're putting it in a place it was never intended to be as an idol where we sacrifice hospitality or discipleship or community or even just a more biblical way of life? I think we have to bring wisdom into the conversation for what you've mentioned. Whether it's worth it, if they're even enjoying it, how much we're spending on it, and do we have the budget to allocate our finances that way and evaluating the time just to see and make sure that it's rightly ordered.   Did you know you could receive a free email with monthly encouragement, practical tips, and plenty of questions to ask to take your conversation a level deeper, whether that's in parenting or on date nights? Make sure you access all of this at thesavvysauce.com by clicking the button that says join our email list so that you can follow the prompts and begin receiving these emails at the beginning of each month. Enjoy!   But if we flip that to if youth sports are rightly ordered, then what are some things that we can celebrate or reasons that you would want families to give this a try?   Brian Smith: (37:37 - 40:09) The massive positive that we keep coming back to is we have a front row seat to see our kids go through every possible emotion in sport, the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. And then if we have the right perspective, we are armed with awesome opportunities and awesome information that we're seeing. We get to see what our kids are really good at.   We get to see their character gaps. And then we get to be the ones who, again, who are their primary response, primary disciplers. It really goes back to like, are we trusting youth sports for too little in our kids' lives?   Like many of us are trusting that our investment is going to get them a spot on a team, or maybe they get an opportunity in high school, maybe in college. And what we're saying is, yeah, that maybe. And that's not a bad end goal.   But if that's everything that you're investing into youth sports, it's not enough. Like what you have available to you every single day is to ask your kid if they showed somebody else's dignity on the field. You don't know if your kid's going to hit a home run today.   That may not be available to them their entire life. What's available to them every single day is to ask a question to their teammate, to see somebody and show dignity to them. And that's really, it's like, it's almost the opportunity of a lifetime for us as parents who, when our kids get home from school, we really don't know what happened most of the day.   We asked them how it went and we get the one-word answer. In sports, we don't have to guess. We get to see everything that happens.   And again, if we are actually trusting youth sports for discipleship investment, that's a good ROI. That's a good return on our investment. But we need a consistent intervention almost daily to say, no, this is why they're in sports.   Yes, I want to see them get better. I want to see them have fun, but Holy Spirit, would you help me see things today that I normally don't see? Holy Spirit, would you put them in circumstances and relationships today and in the season that's going to help them look more and more like Jesus by the time the season's done?   Holy Spirit, would you convict me in the moment when I am being a little too mouthy and saying things that I shouldn't? Would you help me to repent? And God, in those moments where I'm actually doing wrong on behalf of my kid, would you help me to humble myself and apologize to them?   And God, would you repair our relationship that way? So again, all of these options are available just because our kid's shooting a ball or they're on the field with somebody else tackling other people. We're trusting youth sports for too little.   Ed Uszynski: (40:10 - 41:10) That's all big boy and big girl stuff. It just is. I don't normally naturally do any of that.   I have to be coached into that. I have to be discipled myself. I have to work through my own issues, my own baggage, my own fears about the future, my own idolatrous holding onto this imagined future that I have for my kid, irrespective of what God may or may not want.   I've got my own resentment. I've got my own regrets from the past. I wish things had gone differently for me, so I'm going to make sure they go different for you when it comes to sports.   And it's hard to look in the mirror and admit that I have anger issues. I mean, youth sports create a great opportunity for me to get up all my pent-up frustration from the day. We've given ourselves permission to do that, in most cases, to just yell and yell at refs and gripe about coaches and yell at kids.   Brian Smith: (41:10 - 41:31) Because that's what we do at the TV, right? When our favorite team is playing, we've conditioned ourselves to say, awful call, that was terrible. Then we get on social media and we complain about it.   We are discipling ourselves to this is how it's normative to respond within the context of sports. Then we carry all that baggage to our six-year-old soccer game.   Laura Dugger: (41:33 - 42:02) Well, I love how you keep pointing it back toward character and discipleship. You clearly state throughout the book, sports don't develop character, people do. But could you maybe elaborate on that a little bit more and share more now that we've listed pros and cons, you still list a completely different way that we can meaningfully participate while also pushing back?   Brian Smith: (42:04 - 43:49) I'll start with the first part, and then you can answer the second. We use the handshake line as a great example of why character needs to be taught to our kids. If you just watch a normal handshake line left without coaching, the kids are going through it, especially the ones who lose with their head down, they have limp hands, there's no eye contact, and they're mumbling good game, good game.   Sometimes they don't even say it, they'll say GG stands for good game. They don't just learn character by going through the handshake line. If anything, that's going through it like that without any sort of intervention or coaching, that's malforming their character.   That's teaching them when things don't go well, that it's okay for them not to be a big boy or a big girl and look somebody in the eye and congratulate them. What needs to happen? An adult needs to step in and say, hey, as we go through the handshake line, whether you win or lose, here's how we do it with class.   We shake somebody's hand, we look them in the eye, and we say good game. Even if in those moments we don't actually mean it, we still show them dignity and honor. And then when we're done going through the handshake line, guess what we're going to do?   We're going to run down the refs who are trying to get in their car and get out of here, and we're going to give them a high five and say, thank you so much for reffing today. That stuff needs to be taught. Our kids don't just come out of the womb knowing how to do that.   We have to teach them how to do it. Sometimes good coaches will do that, but the more and more we get sucked up into the sports industrial complex, we're getting well-intentioned coaches, but we're getting coaches who care more about the big W, the win, than the character formation stuff that happens.   Ed Uszynski: (43:49 - 45:27) They need to keep hearing it over and over again. I have a ninth grade Bible study in my house the other day with athletes and a whole bunch of my son's basketball team. Exactly what Brian just said, I actually was like, wow, I've got them here.   There was a big blow up at a game the other day, and we wound up talking about it. I said, I'm going to take this opportunity actually to say what Brian just said. When you go through a handshake line, this is how you go through it.   I watched what happened in the game a couple days later. Basically, they did the exact opposite of what I told them to do, and they lost. It was just what Brian said.   They went through limp handed. They didn't look anybody in the face, and they weren't even saying anything. I just chuckled to myself, and you know how this is as a parent.   They may or may not do it. Of course, those aren't my kids. I have more stewardship over my child, who actually, he is doing what I've asked him to do because I've re-emphasized it across time now.   It's not a failure because they didn't do what I said. Again, the pouty side of me wants to be like, forget it. I'm just not even going to try anymore.   It's like, no, they're kids. That was the first time they've heard that. They're going to do what their patterns have, the muscle memory that's been created by their patterns, just like we do as adults.   The next time I have a chance to bring that up again, I'm not going to shame them. I'm just going to go over it again with them. Here's how we do it.   It's super hard to do this, guys, when you just want to be violent with people or you want to cry. You got to pull yourself together. That's what big men do.   That's what big women do in life. They pull themselves together in those moments and do the right thing.   Brian Smith: (45:28 - 46:01) You don't know whether the fifth time you say it is going to stick or the 50th time. Your responsibility as the Christ-following parent is to do it the sixth time and the seventh time and the seventh time and trust that God is going to take those moments and do what he does. We're ultimately not responsible for our kids' behavior.   We're responsible for pointing them in the right direction, and then hopefully, yeah, the Holy Spirit steps in and transforms and changes and convicts in those moments, but it might take some time.   Ed Uszynski: (46:02 - 47:47) Tom Bilyeu So that's how you push back, Laura. You were asking that. How do we push back without being just completely involved in it or going for the same ride that everybody else is going for?   There's just little moments like that scattered throughout. Literally, every day that my kids are involved in youth sports, the car ride over, what happens on the way home, how we talk about it, what happens during the game and what we wind up talking about out of that, the side conversations that happen that just get brought up apart from games of how we interact with people and so-and-so looks like they're struggling. What do you know about that?   That's how we push back, that in our corner of the bleachers, oh, how we interact with other parents. We haven't even talked about that yet, that I can take an interest in more than just my own kid in the bleachers and spend way more energy actually in cheering for other kids and just trying to give them confidence and spend way less time trying to direct that at my own child who knows that I'm there. In fact, my side kid has said he doesn't want to hear my voice during the game.   It distracts him. He's like, I'd much rather that you cheer for other people. It's like, okay.   Having questions ready for other parents during timeouts and as you sit there for hours together, what do you talk about? Well, I could be the one that actually initiates substantive conversations over time with them and asks them about what's going on in different parts of their life. And in having done that, people want to talk.   They want a safe place actually to share what's going on in their So let me be the sports minister. Let me take on that identity and actually care about other people.   Laura Dugger: (47:49 - 49:47) I love that. Even that practical idea of just coming to each game, maybe with a different question, ready to open up those conversations. And I'll share a quick story as well.   Our two oldest daughters recently just gave cheerleading a try at a local Christian school that allows homeschool kids to participate. And this is an overt way that somebody chooses the different way. So, it's the coach of the basketball team.   His name is Cole. And at the end of every game, we saw him consistently throughout this season when it was a home game, whether their team won or lost, he would ask them, okay, shut off the scoreboard. It's all blank.   He gathers both teams. As soon as the game is over teams, cheerleaders, the stands stay filled with all the parents. And he says, this is not our identity.   The world and Satan, our enemy, who's very real. He wants us to put our identity here, but it's not here. You made us better tonight by the way that you played and you were able to shine Jesus.   And we're going to go a step further and we're going to do what we call attaways. So, he's like, all right, boys, you open it up. And his team is trained.   They say to the other team, Hey, number 23, what's your name? I loved how you pushed me so much harder tonight and says, my name's Ben. And so, their Attaway is, Hey, Ben.   And everybody goes, Hey, Ben. Yeah, Ben. Yeah, Ben Attaway.   And everybody just erupts in clapping. And the other team is always blown away and they are just grinning, whether they just lost. So, the boys go through that for a while and then they open it up to the other team and they start sharing Attaways.   And then they open it up to the crowd and the parents are able to say, I see the way you modeled Jesus by being selfless with the ball or whatever it is. So, Cole said that his college coach did that many years ago and he's passed that on. And I love that's one way to redeem the game.   Ed Uszynski: (49:47 - 51:39) Wow. Beautiful. Beautiful.   Yeah. That's amazing. And, you know, I, so Brian and I talk about this too.   And I coached at a Christian school. So, we, we think that it's really important if you're going to play sports and you're going to be a Christian coach that you actually take the game seriously. And that we actually are here to compete and we are here to try to win.   There's nothing wrong with that. And we're going to pursue excellence when we show up with our bodies, and we train for this sport and we're going to try to win. Cause I think sometimes we end up kind of going all or nothing, especially within our Christian circles.   We're uncomfortable with that. And it's like, yes, do that. And on the backside of that to do what that coach did is amazing.   It's that, that is, that is exactly what we're saying. We're also going to try to form our souls in the midst of this. We're going to try to win on the scoreboard.   Okay. The game's over, we lost, we won, whatever. There's more going on here than just that. And can we access that together? And again, that's so rare. Probably everybody listening has never even heard of anything like what you just said.   It would be amazing if a bunch of people did, but that's what we're saying. Let's do more of that. Let's find ways to have more of those conversations in our sphere of influence.   Maybe we're not the coach, but we can do that in our car. We can do that when we're at dinners with the other, with other players and other team, you know, we, we can do that. We can take that kind of initiative.   If we have those categories in our mind, instead of just being frustrated that my kid didn't get to play as much tonight. And I'm that bugs me. It's like, okay, it can bug you.   And now I gotta, I gotta be a big boy and get more out of this than just being frustrated that he or she didn't get to play as much. It's hard.   Laura Dugger: (51:40 - 52:11) Absolutely. Well, and like you guys are doing having Bible studies outside of the, the team that you can instill values in that way and share scripture that they're memorizing to go out there with excellence for the Lord. So, I love all of that.   And I've got just a few quick questions, just kind of for perspective. I want to draw out something from the book. Is it true that young athletic success predicts adult athletic success?   Brian Smith: (52:13 - 53:51) It is not true. This is, this is not a hot take. This is researched back more and more research they're doing on this.   And they're finding that there's not a direct correlation between a young elite athlete and them continuing that up into the right trajectory and being an elite athlete later in life in large part, because when puberty hits, like everything is a game changer. So, this is, I found this fascinating and this is probably going to be new to you too. This just came out today.   At the time we're doing this podcast, the winter Olympics is going on in Norway. It's just like, they're killing it. Nor Norway's youth sports system.   This is wild. They give participation trophies for all the kids. They don't keep score until 13 years old.   They don't do any national travel competitions, no posting youth sports results online. So, there's no online presence of youth sport results. And their country motto is joy of sport for all.   And they're, they're killing it right now in the Olympics. So, like, that's not to say, like you got to follow their model and then you're going to win all these gold medals, but it is, there is something to just let the kids have fun. And the longer they play sport, because it's fun, the better opportunity you're actually going to have to see them blossom and develop some of these God-given gifts that they might have.   Don't expect it to come out before they're 13. Even if it does, there's no guarantee that it's going to continue on until they're 23. Just let them have fun.   Ed Uszynski: (53:52 - 55:55) Brian, we, Brian and I got to speak at a church the other day about this topic. And there was a couple that came up afterwards and they asked the question of what, so when do you think we should let our kids play organized sports or structured sports? And so again, Brian and I are careful.   Like I, there's no, there's no one size fits all answer to that. We would suggest as late as possible, wait as long as possible. Because once you start doing structured sport where there's a coach and you have to be at practices and the games are structured and there's reps, it just cuts away all the possibility they have to just play and just to go up to the YMCA and just play for three hours at whatever it is that they like to do.   And they said, well, it's encouraging to hear that they said, because we, we actually are way more into just developing their bodies physically. And so, we do dance with them, and we do rock climbing and they were kind of outdoorsy people, and they just started listing off all these things they do because we want them to become strong in their bodies, and learn to love activity like that. And I just thought, again, that's, that probably would cause a lot of people to freak out to hear that, that they have eight, nine-year-olds that aren't on teams yet.   They're just, they're training their bodies to appreciate physicality and to become coordinated and to, you know, to get better at movement. And it's like, what sport is that not going to be super helpful in five years from now, even when they're 12, 13 years old. And now they really do want to play one sport, and they do want to be on a team.   They're going to be way ahead of the kids actually that just sat on benches or stood in the outfield, you know, day after day after day at practices. Again, that's maybe hard to hear, but maybe there's some adjustments that need to be made again; to give ourselves permission to say, we don't have to get on that train right now. You don't have to, your kid's not going to be behind.   They actually could be ahead. If you do the kinds of things we just talked about.   Laura Dugger: (55:56 - 56:11) I love that. And even that example with what it looks like played out with Norway and also, do you have any other quick tips just for instilling and cultivating a heart of gratitude and youth sports rather than entitlement?   Brian Smith: (56:13 - 57:33) I'm a high school cross country and track coach, and I have kids on my team who want to get faster at running, but instead of running, they want to lift weights and they want to do plier metrics. So, there's, yes, there's a spot for that. But the way you get better at running is to run.   You got to run more miles and more miles. And I think gratitude is similar. That gratitude, part of it is a, it's a feeling, but it's also a muscle that we can flex even if we don't feel it.   And so, I would encourage parents who are trying to instill gratitude into their kids to give them practical things like, hey, after practice, just go shake your coach's hand or give them a fist bump and tell them, thanks for practice today, coach. That that's a disciplined way to practice gratitude that will hopefully build the muscle where they're, they're using it later in life. After a game, I taught my kids this when they were young and they still do it today.   Go shake a ref's hand. I mentioned this earlier, just a really, really practical way to show thankfulness and gratitude to somebody who really doesn't get a whole lot of gratitude pointed at them during a game or after a game. If anything, they have people chasing them through the parking lot for other reasons.   I want my kids to be chasing them down to give them a fist bump or a high five. And so, gratitude is something that we can just practice practically. And hopefully the discipline practice will lead to a delight and actually doing it.   Ed Uszynski: (57:34 - 59:39) And how do we cultivate an inner posture? Cause I tend to be a cup half empty type person. I'm a, I'm a whiner by nature and a continuous improvement.   There's always something wrong. And I'm, it's easy for me to find those things just as a person. I'm not even saying that as a dad or a coach or anything.   And it's been super helpful to me in the last decade, even to just like, I can choose to shift that. There, there is, there's a list of things that are broke, but there is always a list of things that are good. There's always something good here to be found.   And even as I've tried to like, again, tip the scales more in that direction, I can keep pushing that out of my kids. So, so this, you know, my ninth-grade son tends to just like, he doesn't like a whole bunch of what's going on in basketball right now. So, I keep asking him if he's having fun.   He says, no, like, why not? Or like, who did, why did you not have fun today? So, it's just the same thing every day.   I'm like, okay, who did you enjoy even being with today? Nobody. And I'm like, dude, I don't believe that actually.   I just, I don't believe that. There was somebody that you had some moment with today that you enjoyed, or you wouldn't want to keep going back up there because, and he does. So, give me a name.   Okay. Lenny. What happened with Lenny that was fun? And I make him name it. Like I'm, I'm, I'm trying to coach him through it. And sure enough, he does have some sentences of what was fun today.   And it's like, good, let's, let's at least hold onto that in the midst of all the other stuff that's not right. Let's choose to see the thing that was good and that you enjoyed and that we could be thankful for. Not everybody got to have that today.   Again, I have to have my, I have to be the parent. I have to be the discipler. I have to be in, you know, in charge of my own soul that wants to be negative all the time and say, nope, we're going to, we're going to choose gratitude today because the Bible tells us to do that.   There's something about that posture that opens the door for the gospel to be expressed through us. So, let's practice.   Laura Dugger: (59:40 - 59:50) Well said, and there's so much we could continue learning from both of you. Where can we go after this chat to learn more from each one of you?   Brian Smith: (59:52 - 1:00:14) Yeah, we do a lot of our writing online at thechristianathlete.com. And so, if you go there, you can see articles that are specifically written for parents, for coaches, for athletes, all around this idea of what does it look like to integrate faith and sport together? So, the

Do you ever find yourself thinking, what do I even pray, Lord? Maybe you're stuck in a rut, praying the same things over and over, and honestly it's getting a little awkward and boring. You want your daily prayer to be deeper and more meaningful, but you just feel stuck. I've been there, and I want to share what changed everything for me. In this episode, I'm talking about how biblical declarations using God's word brought confidence and breakthrough in my prayer life like nothing else. I'm sharing the story of how just two weeks after I started declaring wise and godly friendships over my children, my homeschooled son got invited to Awana by another little boy. That was the first fruit I saw from speaking God's promises out loud. Here's what I love about declarations, when we use God's word straight from the Bible, we can know with certainty that we're praying His will. We're not stepping into that weird manifestation stuff you see in the New Age world. We're partnering with the Holy Spirit in spiritual warfare by declaring what God has already said is true. His word doesn't return void, it accomplishes what it was sent to do. I'm walking you through how I declared scriptures over my husband before he was even a believer, how I thank God for things not yet seen, and how to remind the Lord of His own promises in prayer. When we declare God's word instead of letting resentment or doubt creep into our prayers, everything shifts. This is about biblical encouragement and building unshakeable faith. Declarations will transform your prayer life and bring the breakthrough you've been asking for. Next Steps: Get the Ignite Revival: Powerful Prayers & Declarations Guide at: https://alyssarahn.com/prayers Email alyssa@alyssarahn.com for coaching  

When I was a kid, I was part of the Awana ministry at Ardella Baptist Church in Lakeland. I loved Awana. Our church was usually really successful at the Awana Olympics. In fact, the winner of the local Awana Olympics …

Are today's kids ministries actually helping—or unintentionally hurting—the faith of the next generation?Today I'm joined by family ministry veteran Dr. Josh Mulvihill for a candid, biblically grounded conversation about seven key problems in modern kids and youth ministry and why Christians can no longer afford to ignore them.Drawing from Scripture, church history, and current research, Josh challenges some of the most unquestioned assumptions in evangelical churches today, such as age-segregated worship, attractional entertainment models, and the growing confusion between the church's role and parents' God-given responsibility to disciple their children. This conversation is not a hit piece on kids ministry. Both of us love and support children's and youth ministry when they're aligned with Scripture. Instead, we hope this episode will be a wake-up call for parents, pastors, grandparents, and church leaders to evaluate how their churches can better reach the next generation. SHOW NOTES:Go to summit.org/natasha to learn about Summit Ministries' conferences for kids ages 13-22 and use code NATASHA26 to get $500 off an in-person conference when you register by March 31.Josh's website and podcast: https://gospelshapedfamily.com/Josh is the Executive Director of Church and Family Ministry at  Renewanation: https://www.renewanation.org/Josh is a board member of Awana: https://www.awana.org/Get Josh's book, "Family Ministry: How Your Church Can Shepherd Parents and Grandparents to Make Disciples": https://www.amazon.com/Family-Ministry-Shepherd-Grandparents-Disciples/dp/1951042093For more on how Dr. George Barna assesses the worldview of survey respondents, see: https://natashacrain.com/what-is-a-biblical-worldview-with-george-barna/. Learn more about my three apologetics books for parents and teachers: https://natashacrain.com/books/Curricula recommended by Josh: Bright https://britecurriculum.com/Gospel Story https://martymachowski.com/book/gospel-story-curriculum/

Are you hitting the mark in your children's ministry? Are your stories and activities communicating the most important things - like the truth of the gospel?If you can't answer those questions confidently, you may not be alone. The modern children's ministry movement has seen a wave of "Bible lite" teaching that has become the new norm. The good news is that the change starts with you. In today's episode, special guest Matt Markins (CEO of Awana) shares important insights that will equip you to provide gospel-focused teaching weekly. You can hit the mark. You can teach the most important truths - and you can start today. Looking for more resources? Get Matt's latest book, The Story We Tell Our Children, or access Faith of Our Children or Forming Faith on Amazon. To connect with Awana, visit awana.org.Want to dive deeper into reaching the next generation? Email hannah@kidzmatter.com to get a free KidMin Academy class!

Etter tre månader i leiarstolen for Indremisjonsforbundet (ImF) har Jarle Haugland allereie vore med på ei nedbemanning i organisasjonen. I desember såg ImF ut til å få eit underskot på fire millionar kroner, og tiltak måtte til. Det er hovedsakleg Awana sin satsning i Europa og forkynnarar i deltidsstillingar som har blitt nedbemanna, og i tillegg er det andre kutt som har måtte bli gjort. Tross krevande kutt ser den nye leiaren, Jarle Haugland, lyst på 2026 og arbeidet vidare i Indremisjonsforbundet. - Det er ein organisasjon eg er glad i. Eg er glad i folket og i oppdraget, seier Haugland. - Eg er framleis i læringsmodus og har tenkt å bruke dei fyrste månadane til å lytte, legg han til. Lytt til intervjuet med Jarle Haugland, leiar for Indremisjonsforbundet, om hans tankar rundt organisasjonen for framtida.

Pastor Heather Jarvie reflects on the impact of childhood scripture memorization and highlights the importance of not only studying the Bible but also meditating on it, allowing its truths to resonate deeply within our hearts.

Early winter weather has us pondering an alternate definition of “slush pile,” albeit the mucky, grey residue remaining after a city snowfall. Our Slush Pile is far more fresh, but still a wintry mix as we discuss the short story “Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction” by Candice Kelsey. You might want to jump down the page and read or listen to it in full first, as there are spoilers in our discussion!   The story is set on the day of the Women's March, following 2017's Inauguration Day, but only references those events in the most glancing of ways. Instead the protagonist glances away to an array of distractions: Duolingo, a Frida Kahlo biography, a bat documentary, European architecture, banjo music, a stolen corpse flower, daydreaming, and actual dreaming. In the withholding of the protagonist's interiority, Sam sees a connection to Rachel Cusk's Outline, while Jason is reminded of early Bret Easton Ellis. The editors discuss how fiction might evoke the internet's fractioning of our attention, by recreating the fractioning or reflecting it?   We'd like to offer congratulations to Sam whose debut book of short stories, “Uncertain Times,” just won the Washington Writers Publishing House Fiction Prize. As always, thanks for listening!   At the table: Dagne Forrest, Samantha Neugebauer, Jason Schneiderman, Kathleen Volk Miller, Lisa Zerkle, and Lilllie Volpe (Sound Engineer)   Listen to the story “Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction” read in its entirety by Dagne Forrest (separate from podcast reading) (Bio): Candice M. Kelsey (she/her) is a bi-coastal writer and educator. Her work has received Pushcart and Best-of-the-Net nominations, and she is the author of eight books. Candice reads for The Los Angeles Review and The Weight Journal; she also serves as a 2025 AWP Poetry Mentor. Her next poetry collection, Another Place Altogether, releases December 1st with Kelsay Books. (Website): https://www.candicemkelseypoet.com/ (Instagram): @Feed_Me_Poetry   Catherine of the Exvangelical Deconstruction Catherine's thumb hovers over Duolingo's question, her mind dim from doom scrolling, chest dead as TikTok. The green owl stares. She swears its beak is twitching.  “Got 5 minutes?”  She swipes Duo, that nosy bastard, and his taunting French flag icon away. “Non.” The apartment is dim, the air too still. Days feel hollow and unhinged, as if she's Edmond Dantès tossed off the cliff of Chatêau d'If, a brief and misplaced shell weighted to the depths of the sea. So much for learning a language to calm the nerves. Frida Kahlo's face stares from the page of a book she hasn't finished reading. “I should just return this already.” There are days she commits to her syllabus of self-education and days she resents it. Kahlo's eyes pierce her, and giving up feels like large-scale feminist betrayal—how she has shelved the artist, her wounds, tragic love, and all. But even sisterhood is too much this January 21st, and of all people, Kahlo would understand. Catherine opens her laptop and starts a documentary about bats instead. Chiroptera. A biologist with kind eyes speaks of their hand-like bones, the elastin and collagenous fiber wings. The chaos of nature is its own magic realism. She learns bats are vulnerable like the rest of us. Climate disruption and habitat loss. Plus white nose syndrome and the old standby, persecution by ignorant humans who set their caves aflame. In the documentary, there is a bat with the liquid amber eyes of a prophet. Maybe that's what this world has had too much of, she begins to consider. Mid-deconstruction of decades in the white, evangelical cesspit of high control patriarchy, Catherine sees the world as one big field day full of stupid ego-competitions like cosmic tug-a-wars. And prophets were some of the top offenders. King Zedekiah, for one, had the prophet Jeremiah lowered into a well by rope, intending he sink into the mud and suffocate. All because he warned the people of their emptiness. Her mind wanders to Prague, to art, to something far away that might fill her own cistern life. “Maybe next summer,” she whispers. “Charles Bridge, St. Vitus.” The rhythm of bluegrass hums through the speakers, enough to anchor her here, in this room, in this thin sliver of a world she cannot escape. “That could be the problem; I need to learn Czech. No, fuck Duo.” J'apprendrai le français. J'irai à Prague. Je verrai les vieux bâtiments. But then, something strange. The banjo's pluck feels different, deeper, its twang splitting the air. She Googles the history of Bluegrass, and the words tumble from the page, layering like the weight of a corpse settling into the silt off the coast of Marseille. The banjo isn't Appalachian in origin but rather West African—specifically from the Senegalese and Gambian people, their fingers strumming the akonting, a skin drum-like instrument that whispered of exile, of worlds ripped apart. American slavers steeped in the bitter twisting of scripture trafficked them across the Middle Passage, yet in the cruel silence of the cotton fields, they turned their pain into music. How are we not talking about this in every history class in every school in every state of this nation? The akonting, an enslaved man's lament, was the seed of a gourd that would bloom into the sounds of flatpicking Southerners. Still, the banjo plays on in Catherine's apartment. A much more tolerable sound than Duolingo's dong-ding ta-dong. But she can't quite cleanse her mind of the French lessons, of Lily and Oscar. Il y a toujours plus. Her voice is barely a whisper, trying to reassure herself. There must be more. A recurring dream, soft and gleaming like a pearl—her hands moving over cool clams, shucking them on a beach house in Rhode Island. It's a faint memory, but no less ever present. Aunt Norma and Uncle Francis' beach cottage and the closest thing to a Hyannis Port Kennedy afternoon of cousins frolicking about by the edge of a long dock lured back by the steam of fritters. But this time, Ocean Vuong stands beside her. He's talking about the monkey, Hartford, the tremors of the world. And the banjo has morphed into Puccini's La Bohème, which laces through the rhythm of Vuong's syntax like a golden libretto. They notice a figure outside the window, a shadow in the sand—the new neighbor? He's strange. A horticulturist, they say. Catherine hasn't met him, but there are rumors. “Did he really steal it?” Vuong asks. She practices her French—it's a dream after all—asks “Le cadavre fleuri?” They move to whispers, like a star's breath in night air. Rumor stands that in the middle of California's Eaton fire, the flower went missing from the Huntington Museum in Pasadena. The Titan Arum, bloated and bizarre in its beauty and stench, just vanished. Fran at the liquor store says the new neighbor, gloves always pressed to the earth, took it.  At night, she hears him in the garden, talking to the roots. She imagines his voice, murmuring something incomprehensible to the moonlight. Like that's where the truth lies—beneath the soil, between the cracks of broken promises, smelling faintly of rot. She recalls the history she once read, so distant, so impossibly rotten. During WWI, when the Nazis swept through Prague, they forced Jewish scholars to scour their archives. They wanted to preserve the so-called “best” of the Jews—manuscripts, texts, holy materials—for their future banjo-twisted Museum of an Extinct Race. She shudders. The music, the wild joy of the banjo, now seems infected with something ancient and spoiled. The act of collecting, of preserving, feels obscene. What do you keep? What do you discard? Whom do you destroy? She wakes from the dream, her phone still alive with French conjugations. The bluegrass hums, but it's heavier, like a rope lowering her into Narragansett Bay. The neighbor's house is dark. But she thinks she can see him, a silhouette against the trees, standing still as a warning. Everything is falling apart at the seams, and she is both a part of it and apart from it. Like each church she left, each youth group and AWANA or Vacation Bible School where she tried to volunteer, to love on the kids, to be the good follower she was tasked with being.  She leans her forehead against the cool glass of the window, closing her eyes. The ache is there, the same ache that never quite leaves. It's sharp, it's bitter, it's whole. The small, steady thrum beneath it all. Il y a toujours plus. Maybe tomorrow she will satisfy Duo. Maybe next fall she will dance down a cobbled street in Prague. Find five minutes to feel human. Perhaps she will be whole enough, tall as St. Vitus Cathedral, to face whatever is left of this America. She closes her eyes to Puccini's Mimi singing Il y a toujours plus and dueling banjos while her neighbor secretly drags a heavy, tarp-covered object across his yard under the flutter of Eastern small-footed bats out for their midnight mosquito snack. A scene only Frida Kahlo could paint.

Episode Summary: Conversations about crime and immigration are extremely charged today, and sincere people see these issues very differently. Why? Today, Dr. Mark Moland joins us to go beyond headlines and soundbites, unpacking the worldview assumptions shaping modern criminal justice and the immigration debates. Drawing on his experience, Mark shows how our beliefs about human nature, government, and justice shape the policies we support and how we treat our neighbors, whom we are called to love.Hear him present a compelling biblical framework that balances compassion and truth. Affirming the God-given dignity of immigrants while recognizing the essential role of law enforcement and wise government boundaries. Mark also explores the power of community engagement, relationship-building, and the pursuit of shalom as a path toward safer, healthier, and more cohesive communities and cities. We hope this conversation will offer clarity on these critical issues and guidance for faithful Christian engagement in this tense cultural moment.Who is Disciple Nations Alliance (DNA)? Since 1997, DNA's mission has been to equip followers of Jesus around the globe with a biblical worldview, empowering them to build flourishing families, communities, and nations.

Alan Crim :: Creekside Church :: Sunday, August 10, 2025 Alan Crim continues our short series in the Psalms with a message from Psalm 1, an ancient treasure map for blessing. Alan presents 3 critical landmarks—the path to avoid, the path to follow, and the 2 destinations in view. This message follows an announcement from Mark Kline about Awana, and Heather Derr about our College Care ministry. Worship music permitted under CCLI License #264436.

In this episode, I sit down with comedian and creator Anthony Russo to talk about his latest release, "The Bible Is Funny: Volume 2" - a card game that finds comedy in the most unexpected corners of Scripture. In our conversation we explore why the Bible is funnier than most people realize, how humor can deepen our engagement with God's Word, and what it means to do comedy as a Christian.Anthony Russo, the author of the bestselling Bible Is Funny Card Game, is the creator of The Bible Is Funny Instagram and one half of the duo Isaac Improv, which offers clean comedy content. A popular comedy performer, Russo grew up memorizing Scripture—partly to understand God's Word, but probably more so to earn badges for his Awana vest. He is an ordained minister who served on church staff for nearly two decades. He and his wife, Rachael, live in Seminole, Florida, and have two children.https://www.ryleyheppner.comhttps://apologeticscanada.com/ryley-heppner/

Anthony Russo, the author of the bestselling Bible Is Funny Card Game, is the creator of The Bible Is Funny Instagram and one half of the duo Isaac Improv, which offers clean comedy content. A popular comedy performer, Russo grew up memorizing Scripture—partly to understand God's Word, but probably more so to earn badges for his Awana vest. He is an ordained minister who served on church staff for nearly two decades. He and his wife, Rachael, live in Seminole, Florida, and have two children.

Send us a text In this episode of the Healing the City podcast, Pastor Eric sits down with the one and only Bob Lefevre. They talk about his years of working with children, his involvement with Awana, and the gift of patience he's developed along the way. Support the show"Healing the City" is a profound and dynamic weekly podcast that dives into the complexities of creating healthier communities. Featuring the voices and perspectives of the esteemed members of the Village Church, each episode is thoughtfully crafted to address the challenges and opportunities for meaningful change in our cities. With a holistic approach to healing, the podcast explores a wide range of topics, from soul care and spiritual direction to mental health and community involvement. It provides listeners with insightful and thought-provoking perspectives on the issues facing our cities, as well as practical steps they can take to make a difference. Join hosts Corey Gilchrist, Eric Cepin, Ashley Cousineau, Jessica Dennes, Michael Cousineau, Mark Crawford, and Susan Cepin as they navigate the complexities of our communities with wisdom, grace, and a deep commitment to positive change. Through their engaging discussions, listeners will be inspired to become active participants in healing the city and creating a brighter, healthier future for all. The Village Churchvillagersonline@gmail.comThe Village Church meets at 10a and 5p on Sundays1926 N Cloverland Ave, Tucson AZ 85712Mail: PO Box 30790, Tucson AZ 85751

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About Adam and Eve from Genesis 2-3 – August 10 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About Creation from Genesis 1 – August 3 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About Adam and Eve from Genesis 2-3 – August 10 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About Abraham's Call from Genesis 12, 15, 17 – August 17 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About the Birth of Isaac from Genesis 18, 21 – August 24 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About Joseph and His Brothers – August 31 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About Creation from Genesis 1 – August 3 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About Abraham's Call from Genesis 12, 15, 17 – August 17 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About the Birth of Isaac from Genesis 18, 21 – August 24 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About Joseph and His Brothers – August 31 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About The Ten Commandments-September 7 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About The Twelve Spies-September 14 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About The Walls Of Jericho-September 21 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Teaching Kids About Samson-September 28 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About The Ten Commandments-September 7 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About The Twelve Spies-September 14 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About The Walls Of Jericho-September 21 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

SHOW NOTES Brite is a digital weekend curriculum powered by Awana. Learn more about brite* and join the conversation in […] The post Preschool: Teaching Littles About Samson-September 28 appeared first on Child Discipleship.

In this episode of the KidzMatter Podcast, host Jordan Davis sits down with Brian Campbell, Executive Vice President of U.S. Ministries at Awana, to explore the evolving landscape of midweek ministry. Together, they dive into how churches can rethink their midweek strategy to better engage kids and families in a post-pandemic world.Mark also shares key insights and history behind the Awana curriculum programs - including their new Sunday curriculum, Brite. Click here to download a month of free curriculum!Whether you're rebuilding your midweek programming or starting from scratch, this episode will inspire you to think differently and lead with intention.

In this heartfelt NEW episode of Stand Up for the Truth, host Dave Wager reconnects with longtime friend and retired Air Force pilot Eric Demkowicz to explore faith, military service, and the power of intentional community. Eric shares his story of coming to Christ as a child through Awana Clubs and how that early foundation carried him through a lifetime of service, including flying C-5 aircraft around the world. He emphasizes the spiritual challenges that come with military life—frequent moves, isolation, and shifting cultural pressures—and offers practical wisdom for young believers considering military careers. Together, Dave and Eric challenge churches to go beyond polite gratitude and build real relationships with military families, helping them stay grounded in their faith. Later, the conversation turns personal as Eric reflects on losing both of his parents, facing cancer, and how God used those difficult seasons to deepen his dependence on Christ. He underscores the importance of being rooted in Scripture and surrounded by faithful friends who can remind you of truth when emotions run high. Eric's stories—from flying into remote parts of the world to simply inviting others into conversation—illustrate how every believer, in any career, can be a light in dark places. It's a powerful reminder that ministry often starts with one small invitation and that God's faithfulness is evident even in life's most turbulent moments. Stand Up For The Truth Videos: https://rumble.com/user/CTRNOnline & https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgQQSvKiMcglId7oGc5c46A

In this heartfelt NEW episode of Stand Up for the Truth, host Dave Wager reconnects with longtime friend and retired Air Force pilot Eric Demkowicz to explore faith, military service, and the power of intentional community. Eric shares his story of coming to Christ as a child through Awana Clubs and how that early foundation carried him through a lifetime of service, including flying C-5 aircraft around the world. He emphasizes the spiritual challenges that come with military life—frequent moves, isolation, and shifting cultural pressures—and offers practical wisdom for young believers considering military careers. Together, Dave and Eric challenge churches to go beyond polite gratitude and build real relationships with military families, helping them stay grounded in their faith. Later, the conversation turns personal as Eric reflects on losing both of his parents, facing cancer, and how God used those difficult seasons to deepen his dependence on Christ. He underscores the importance of being rooted in Scripture and surrounded by faithful friends who can remind you of truth when emotions run high. Eric's stories—from flying into remote parts of the world to simply inviting others into conversation—illustrate how every believer, in any career, can be a light in dark places. It's a powerful reminder that ministry often starts with one small invitation and that God's faithfulness is evident even in life's most turbulent moments. Stand Up For The Truth Videos: https://rumble.com/user/CTRNOnline & https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgQQSvKiMcglId7oGc5c46A

My guest today is Eryn Lynum: master naturalist, author, bible teacher, home schooling mom, and podcast host. Friends, she's incredible! And this episode with her is just so fun! We had the best time talking about nature and seeing God at work there. Eryn's love of nature and God's word have taught her much about the importance of pursuing rest. But this learning actually began when Eryn was a young teen.   At the age of 14, Eryn learned that she had a potentially life-threatening disease that required rest to keep her alive. This started Eryn on a journey of learning to manage the stress and anxieties of life in a way that was healthy and holy.  In this episode, Eryn talks about her new book, The Nature of Rest: What the Bible and Creation Teach Us About Sabbath Living, and how it is the story of all she's learned about rest from her own life journey, to studying creation and God's word. Eryn is a joy to talk to. She is a wealth of fun and fascinating nature knowledge, as well as a wise guide to biblical living. I love this episode, and I know you will too! Be sure to get Eryn's new book today! You can find it right here.  Resources mentioned in this podcast: Find Eryn's new book here Find Eryn's first book here Find Eryn's website here Find Eryn's podcast here Find Eryn on Instagram here Find more about Awana programs for kids here The Greta Eskridge Podcast is a part of the Christian Parenting Podcast Network. For more information visit www.ChristianParenting.org

Today's witnesses are from Matthew West's website, called popwe.org. If you don't know who Matthew West is, he is a singer, songwriter, and storyteller. This website is for the non-profit that he has with his father, a pastor. Matthew and his father encourage people to share their stories. They have various categories of stories. Today, I chose two testimonies from the Anxiety/Depression Category. I know so many people who are struggling with anxiety and depression right now. Suicide seems to be increasing as well. Often, we can hear our own story in someone else's story. When we listen to others tell their story, it helps us see that we are not alone. When we hear how God worked in their situation, it gives us hope that He will work in ours, too! I pray that when you hear these testimonies, you get the faith and hope to believe that miracles can happen in your situation, too. I pray you know that God is there with you, and if you invite Him into your anxiety and depression, He can help.Blair: Every story has a beginning. Even God's Word says “In the beginning” Genesis 1:1. So here's how my beginning led me to where I am now. I was born into a “Christian” home. We went to church, we went to Youth Group, and we participated in missionary activities at the church. But there was not a Bible to be seen in our whole house. I'm the first of three children, the Type A, do everything right, be the perfect kid. That's great, but try being that way with a mother who was emotionally, psychologically, verbally, and sometimes, very rarely, physically abusive.I didn't have a traditional mother-daughter relationship doing things together. I was a good student- no- I had to be a perfect student. When my brother was born, the last child, it was made very clear who the favorite child was. My sister and I were knocked out of place because we were girls. So, in the beginning, I was not the gender my mother wanted me to be. As the years went by, it was more of the same treatment with little in the way of any faith journey or building a relationship with Jesus. When I began having children, the stress of that sent me over the edge. The depression and anxiety were debilitating. I felt like I was in a valley and didn't know how to climb out. My husband was a pastor and even then my faith was very shallow.Things continued to spiral out of control and I ended up in the psychiatric ward of the hospital three times. Sadly, some of those times were because of suicide attempts. The whole of 2011 I basically spent in bed. I felt hopeless, useless, exhausted, unworthy, scared, anxious, and I could go on. I finally got a doctor who tweaked my medication so that I could go about “normal” life. Two weeks after my last stay in the hospital, my husband of 18 years passed away at the age of 44 on Christmas Eve. My boys were 17,15, 11, and 9.This is where the story of my new life in Christ began. Just like there were medication changes, there were also church changes that led to soul changes. I could actually hear God. I wanted to learn everything about Him. The more I began leaning into Him, the more He leaned into me. I lost my dad two years before my husband and my mom three years after my husband. But I was as ok as ok could be given the circumstances life has, is, and will be. That's life. I am so thankful for the valleys because then I was able to enjoy the mountain tops. God has a reason for me being here. Understand that my life still hasn't been perfect. I've had many financial difficulties. I've had difficulties being a man to four boys not knowing what it means to be a dad. But I know 100% that all of these “tragedies” and “valleys” led me to “triumphs” and “mountain tops” because God has a plan that I can't see. He is with me ALL the time. He puts people in my life that help me grow- friends, pastors, and family. He inspires me through music. The words hit me in just the right place and at just the right time. I'm thankful for the music of Matthew West, Chris Tomlin, Mercy Me, Toby Mac, Zach Williams and so many other talented musicians that bring God to me. I love music but I love my Savior even more. And so my story continues until God takes me home to live with Him in glory. My past doesn't dictate my future and my past doesn't change my relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm so very loved by a God who loves me unconditionally. Guess what? He loves you that much, too.Jenna: I grew up in a Christian family. We went to church every Sunday and Wednesday and were a part of almost everything; Awana, Elevate teen group, and even school there. Two and a half years ago, I lost someone who I was close to because she felt the need to commit suicide. I was heartbroken and I felt like I lost everything. 2022 was a challenging year for me. I had daily panic attacks and felt like I was worthless. My eating habits went down significantly, and I was stressed all the time. As exams neared, I was super stressed and ended up passing out.Months passed and I still felt worthless. I planned to commit suicide when I got a text from a friend, and it was like a text from God. She said she heard I was going to camp and hoped to see me there. I thought if I waited til after camp, and then committed suicide it would be okay. So I went to camp and it changed my life. I met so many new people and was able to share my hurt with my church and they told me that I was not alone. Camp was my blue couch moment as I sat there in service Thursday night, I realized that I needed God in my life more than ever. I had already been saved, but I realized I hadn't been living like Christ wanted me to. I have had friends come and go in my life some that have stuck around for a while God will not let you down and he will always have someone in mind who will help you grow in faith and support you through it all. They can also help you overcome the hardships in your life.I still deal with anxiety and eating habits, but they have gotten so much better since camp and I am so thankful for all that my church has done for me. Also, I have my three closest friends with me right by my side and the Lord has blessed me with an amazing boyfriend who I love and who has helped me through a lot.GOD'S NOT DONE WITH YOU OR YOUR STORY! HE STILL CARES A LOT AND WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU. YOU HAVE A PURPOSE – TURN TO GOD TO FIND THAT PURPOSE AND YOU WILL BE FOUND.Thank you to Jenna & Blair for sharing their stories with us. I know it can be hard to be vulnerable and share your story; however, when you share your story, you are showing someone else that God is there and that if He worked in your life, then He can work in their life too. You are showing them that if you could make it through the hard time, they can too. Thank you so much for sharing!  www.findingtruenorthcoaching.comCLICK HERE TO DONATECLICK HERE to sign up for Mentoring CLICK HERE to sign up for Daily "Word from the Lord" emailsCLICK HERE to sign up for my newsletter & receive a free audio training about inviting Jesus into your daily lifeCLICK HERE to buy my book Total Trust in God's Safe Embrace

On this episode, we go outside our comfort zone and discuss the concept of perceived safety and when it gets in the way. Tangents include hiding in the closet, finger painting, sad songs, and Awana trauma. Enjoy!Join the next conversation:* Leave us a voice message on www.speakpipe.com/picklesandvodka* Subscribe to our Substack: Pickles and Vodka: a Mental Health Podcast* Follow our Instagram: @picklesandvodkapodcast* Join our Facebook group: www.facebook.com/picklesandvodapodcast* Send us an email: picklesandvodkapodcast@gmail.com* Christina's personal Instagram: @xtinajumper* Christina's Substack: crisis corner (xtinajumper.substack.com)* Lauren's personal Instagram: @lauren___afh (but mostly @picosauve)Credits:* Edited by Christina Jumper* Theme song is Insane OK by The Whines from Free Music Archive Get full access to Pickles and Vodka at picklesandvodka.substack.com/subscribe

How do you trust in Jesus?Script:This was a question asked by a young student in AWANA, and I was caught off guard. I gave my typical ABCs of the gospel — admit you are a sinner, believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for your sins, and confess Him as the resurrected King over your life. I said that trusting in Jesus is something that happens in our hearts, and it's God who makes it happen. But I wasn't totally satisfied with my answer — and looking back, I don't think she was either.I gave it some thought, and here's what I think I should have said.I could have opened with: Well, who do you trust? Maybe your parents — your mom and dad. What does that look like? When I trust them, it means I believe they'll do what they say. I believe they love me. I believe they'll take care of me. I believe that we're family.So, to trust in Jesus means you believe what He says — one of those things being that we're sinners. You believe He is who He says He is: the Son of God who died on the cross for your sins. And you believe what He did, and what He tells you to do — to confess Him as the resurrected King over your life.To trust is to actively put your faith — your belief — in who someone says they are, what they say they'll do, and what that means for you.I trust that God will use whatever sliver of gospel hope I had in my answer and use it for His glory, as He always does. Even inadequate answers can receive amazing grace. I won't be caught off guard next time — and I'm glad to have learned a better answer to this question myself.Shownotes:AWANA Messagehttps://www.diveindigdeep.com/blog/messages/spirit-and-truthKids Q&A Playlisthttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_vN-vM53O-8cmwa4fcIaJk6GhnnjrgxXPreaching and Teaching:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL761H3XZh_ND_RS09G8_SxPmcrw82GSVIAll Messageshttps://www.diveindigdeep.com/messagesLinks:https://www.diveindigdeep.com/https://newsletter.diveindigdeep.com/https://www.instagram.com/diveindigdeephttps://www.youtube.com/@soundwordsfm https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/soundwords

How are American Christians thinking about engaging non-Christians in the United States? According to recent Barna research there are 60 to 80 million Americans who don't fit the paradigm that a lot of Christians have about those outside of the church. They are not really hostile to discussions about faith and spirituality and are actually spiritually curious at the right moments. Join Ted Esler's conversation with Mark Matlock, the Executive Director of the Urbana Student Missions Conference and also author of Faith for the Curious: How an Era of Spiritual Openness Shapes the Way We Live and Help Others Follow Jesus. Mark Matlock is a facilitator of innovation and impact, helping organizations adapt to changing times through turning research based insights into action. The founder of WisdomWorks LLC a consultancy helping churches and faith-based organizations leverage their collective wisdom and insight to innovate and adapt in changing times. Mark also works with Barna to assist clients with board training and on-site facilitation of research findings. Mark has been an advisor to organizations such as the Seed Company, Youth Specialties, Young Life, Awana, Brotherhood Mutual, Movement.org, BetterMan and has served as a board member of the American Bible Society. Mark is the author of more than 20 books for teens and parents, and in 2019 co-authored Faith for Exiles: Five Ways for a New Generation to Follow Jesus in Digital Babylon with Barna Group President David Kinnaman. Having initiated many research projects with Barna over the last two decades related to Next Gen studies, Mark's research continues to provide insights into emerging generations and how to cultivate faithful disciples.Mark is an ordained minister, certified LifePLanner, LEGO Serious Play facilitator, and MCORE trainer and coach. Mark is also certified as a HopIn online platform agency. He's been married for 30 years to his wife Jade. They have two adult children.The Mission Matters Podcast is a place to talk about the importance of our Mission as Christians. The Mission Matters is a partnership of Missio Nexus and Sixteen:Fifteen, who have a shared passion to mobilize God's people to be a part of His mission.https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Curious-Spiritual-Openness-Shapes/dp/0801018714https://www.urbana.org/

In this fun, faith-filled episode of the Women Inseparable Follow the Spirit podcast, host Jaclyn and friends blend laughs, mascara tips (Mary Kay and Babe Lash), and childhood stories—like the Awana brown bag game—with deep reflections on living guided by the Holy Spirit. From envisioning Jesus' eyes to spotting God in fingerprints and empty coffee cups, they mix scripture with silliness for a warm, uplifting chat that celebrates His everyday presence. Tune in for joy and insight!Women Inseparable @ womeninseparable.com/social-media Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's episode of The Coffee Break, Russ spoke with Rusty about becoming the new AWANA missionary.  The Coffee Break is the daily Christian talk and local events program on Hope Radio KCMI 97.1FM serving the Scottsbluff, NE area. Tune in for interviews with authors, musicians, pastors, and others in the Christian community and our local area! Visit our website: www.kcmifm.com Like us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/kcmifm

I realized after posting yesterday's podcast episode that I missed Witness Wednesday. I was away for the weekend, and coming back on Monday must have thrown me off. However, I didn't want you to miss out on Witness Wednesday, so I am just doing it a day late this week.  Today's witnesses are from Matthew West's website called popwe.org. If you don't know who Matthew West is, he is a singer, songwriter, and storyteller. This website is for the non-profit that he has with his father, a pastor. Matthew and his father encourage people to share their stories. They have various categories of stories. Today, I chose two testimonies from the Salvation Category. Often, we can hear our own story in someone else's story. When we listen to others tell their story, it helps us see that we are not alone. When we hear how God worked in their situation, it gives us hope that He will work in ours, too! I pray when you hear these testimonies, you get the faith and hope to believe that miracles can happen in your situation, also. I pray you know that God is there with you, and if you invite Him into your situation, He can help. I hope you enjoy these testimonies.My name is Cyndi. My broken story started before I was even born. I was the last of my bio mom's seven kids.  Unfortunately, she was an alcoholic who drank during her pregnancy, so I have Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder.When I was born in 1971, I weighed about 3 lbs. I was adopted at age 1. Unfortunately, the family I was adopted into was dysfunctional. I suffered all manner of abuse, including sexual abuse. This hurt me so bad that I wanted to die for many years.I was diagnosed at twenty with Bipolar Disorder. But I didn't take the medication because I just didn't want to. I got pregnant at twenty-one.  I literally had my son on my twenty second birthday.  I married his dad four months later.But my husband was abusive, mentally, emotionally, and verbally.  And because I had never dealt with my previous abuse, I believed his abuse was my fault. Not only did I stay with him and raise my son, but I also had another child, a daughter, when my son was six years old.Even though I thought our problems were my fault, I still knew how ridiculous that sounded because I knew I didn't really want to live like that. I separated from him when my daughter was three and tried to take the kids.He used lies and insinuation to get them back. I ended up being divorced and having visitation with my kids. It wasn't easy, but we managed to survive. You may wonder about my faith throughout all of this. Don't worry, I'm getting there!  I was raised Catholic but got into the Jehovah's Witnesses in 1996. I stayed that in that group until November of 2022, when I learned it wasn't what I had been led to believe.I was a lost soul for a little while but came back to Christianity the next November and have been loving it since. I'm quite happy these days. I do take meds. I have two spectacular kids and a wonderful granddaughter. I've been through more therapy than I care to admit and I'm still in it. But I've learned that it's okay to not be okay sometimes.Because I spent twenty-seven years not doing any holidays or birthdays, I take care to do them all and really celebrate them.  I really appreciate and enjoy my friends and family. So, I guess I have a pretty good ending to my broken story.But it's all because of Jesus. I do wish that my kids would love Jesus like I do, but they have to get to know him from a different perspective now. Just like I did.Ben:  I grew up in a Christian home going to church every Sunday, being involved in AWANA and Youth Group, and going to Bible camps based on the Bible. The broken chapters of my life started before age 14. I was a Christian then. I believed hard on God, He was my Savior and He loved me. In 2017, when I was in the 6th grade, the garage of my house went up in flames. That was really tough for me and my whole family to go through. I hated God through that. It was about a year of moving around, and not being in my own neighborhood.
Further into my life starting around age fourteen is when I fell apart from God.  I got introduced into pornography. That was my biggest struggle. A lot of changes happened. I hated God and felt like I didn't belong with Him. Satan took me over and I felt what he could do to me. Just to be living through that, though, is how I saw God. I became an addict to pornography and that was really harsh. Going though that, plus still going to church was a struggle. I believed that God didn't want me and that He left me. I hated God for writing my life like this. And yet, I prayed almost every day for Him to bring me out of this hell, out of Satan's world.Skipping forward in my life, I am now two months from my 16th birthday. In late February 2021, I moved from my hometown of Naperville, IL to South Nashville, TN. This was the biggest move of my entire life. I was confused and scared of moving so far away, but during this time I was doing better with God. I felt Him closer to me and with me more often. As life moved on during February, I came to realize that God has made my life for a purpose and He has drawn my path. So I just had to trust God that He knew what He was doing in my life. In June 2021, me and my family took a trip back up to my hometown to see friends and family and the community. About halfway through the trip, I was fishing at one of my favorite lakes and started to talk to God. I fished there that day for about 2 1/2 hours and during that time I was having a conversation with God. I felt really close to Him and loved Him. I poured out my fears and thoughts.During week three of the trip, I was in bed one night thinking of my strong fear of death. It scared me so bad, something happened between me and the Lord that I fell apart again. That time was one of the closest times I came to taking my own life, but I never did because of God. He came into my thoughts and blocked that idea. I was so scared of death, I couldn't do it.In week 4 of June, my family and I made our way to Gull Lake Ministries, in Hickory Corners, Michigan. The Friday of that week, I was out on the fishing dock at night about 10:30pm and was listening to my Christian music playlist and the song ‘Way Maker' came on. I poured out my heart to The Lord Jesus Christ asking for forgiveness. After that night, I asked God to come back to my heart.  I prayed and I cried happy tears knowing I had been saved.The week before school started, I joined my school's marching band…lots of hard work balancing that with my studies and with God. A month later, I was greatly in line with God. A month after that I met this girl who was in my instrument section for marching band. She is a very strong believer and a true Christian. She is one of the main people that brought me back to Christ. We prayed together and we both shared music, verses and Bible plans to know Jesus more. Finding a church is one of the harder struggles along with finding a youth group that can be of fit for me to be more connected.
One week, she invited me to her youth group and I liked it. I was able to become closer to the Lord and know that community.Two days later, the thought of killing myself and hurting myself came back. I fell apart from God again. I talked to my friend about this, and she seemed really worried. She tried to talk me out of it. She talked to her parents and gave me music and Bible verses about how God wants me, loves me, and knows me. This lasted about two weeks which is the longest I have had in my life yet. The struggle with the aftermath –going through that was the hardest. Reconnecting myself with God, I found this song by Matthew West called ‘The God Who Stays.' I put this song on repeat and listened to it about 100+ times. The lyrics of the song are really powerful and meaningful. After about a week, I grew closer to Christ, and during worship in a church service, I poured my heart out to the Lord. I felt him right next to me and knew that He was with me. Over the last couple months, I have been in line with Jesus, asking for forgiveness, talking openly to friends about Him, and being involved with church leaders. Now I see and consider myself a Christian, after three years of on/off with God. I am back.I got baptized on February 18, 2022. I love Jesus and I never want to lose Him again.  Amen!Thank you so much to both of you for sharing your stories. You have both had such a hard journey. I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story so that others know they are not alone. It also shows them that if God got you through it, he will get them through it too! Thank you so much for sharing!  www.findingtruenorthcoaching.comCLICK HERE TO DONATECLICK HERE to sign up for Mentoring CLICK HERE to sign up for Daily "Word from the Lord" emailsCLICK HERE to sign up for my newsletter & receive a free audio training about inviting Jesus into your daily lifeCLICK HERE to buy my book Total Trust in God's Safe Embrace

How do you evaluate whether a church program or curriculum, like Awana, is biblically sound and worth your child's time? In this episode, Elizabeth Urbanowicz shares a practical framework to help parents assess the faithfulness and impact of any program. Learn three essential questions to ask, including whether the program is biblically faithful, if it provides transferable skills, and what your family might sacrifice by participating. This episode will help you make informed, intentional decisions for your child's discipleship journey.

Pastor Heather Jarvie reflects on the impact of childhood scripture memorization and highlights the importance of not only studying the Bible but also meditating on it, allowing its truths to resonate deeply within our hearts.

Sarah-Ann Chaddick joined us in the studio to kick-off the month of September! Sarah-Ann starts her story by sharing about coming to know Jesus through Cubbies in the AWANA program. It was a special time because her family was all coming to know Jesus around the same time. In college Sarah-Ann met her husband Bradley (he was on the podcast back in June!) and they ended up moving to Colorado early in their marriage. She reflects on this as a sweet time because they had so much quality time as a young family, getting to spend time with her parents too. After about three years in Colorado, they felt the Lord leading their family to move to Arizona. In December 2020 Sarah-Ann describes feeling a sense from the Lord that something was coming, she just didn't know what it was. She felt the Holy Spirit saying, "Something is coming. Be prepared. Simplify your life."  Sarah-Ann did not feel anxiety from this but felt a strong confidence in the Lord. Just two months later Sarah-Ann received a phone call on a Sunday afternoon that changed everything. Her parents had both been killed in a car accident due to a distracted driver. This was the event the Holy Spirit had been preparing her heart for. You will be in awe by Sarah-Ann's response and her strength in how she reacted then and how she tells the story now. Even more amazing is what came to light after her parent's sudden death. Were they expecting this to happen? You will be drawn in as Sarah-Ann takes us into the deepest parts of her grief and shares how a fire was lit in her heart to follow God with a passion. The Sarah-Ann before this event and the Sarah-Ann after are not the same person and that is a testament to God's incredible and personal work. ________Topic's covered in today's episode: oceanography, Colorado, adoption, foster care, distracted driving, grief, discipleship________Bradley Chaddick's testimony (Sarah-Ann's husband!), Episode 120*available wherever you listen to podcastsMomCo at Desert SpringsWould you please subscribe and leave us a review? This will help our podcast reach more people! We'd love it if you'd share this podcast with your friends on social media and beyond. Join us next Wednesday to hear another story of God's faithfulness!

"Don't kick yourself over what wasn't done or what you would have liked to maybe do differently, just become intentional with the time that is left and pick the areas that matter the most." ~ Dr. Josh Mulvihill Watch this full interview on our YouTube Channel. While parenting is a joy-filled blessing, it can also be hard. How do we take our kids from childhood to adulthood in 18 short years and then send them off with the confidence that we have taught them well and done our very best to prepare them for a life of serving Christ? Yvette Hampton talks with Dr. Josh Mulvihill, author of the new book every parent should read, 50 Things Every Child Needs to Know Before Leaving Home: Raising Children to Godly Adults. This is a conversation you won't want to miss! Josh Mulvihill is the Executive Director of Church and Family Ministry at Renewanation. He served as a pastor for 18 years, has a PhD in Family Ministry, serves on the board of AWANA, and is the author or editor of ten books on parenting and grandparenting including Biblical Grandparenting, Preparing Children for Marriage, Biblical Worldview, and his latest 50 Things Every Child Needs to Know Before Leaving Home. He is married to Jen. They homeschool their five children and live in Victoria, MN. Josh blogs at GospelShapedFamily.com, enjoys camping, fishing, reading a great book, and a DIY project on their hobby farm. Has the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast been a blessing to you? Support from our listeners allows us provide resources, support, and encouragement to homeschooling families around the world. Would you please consider a year-end gift to support the Schoolhouse Rocked ministry? Recommended Resources: Podcast Note-Taking Guide 50 Things Every Child Needs to Know Before Leaving Home: Raising Children to Godly Adults, by Josh Mulvihill Check out Josh's other great books here! What does the Bible Say about that?, by Kevin Swanson Great Hymns of the Faith CaroleJoySeid.com  

“For us, it's not AWANA, it's ‘Can we disciple one more child?'” Gajendra Tamang is the Regional Director of AWANA in South Asia, coming alongside pastors and local churches to help reach and disciple children from many different religious backgrounds. Gajendra knows first-hand how a life can be changed through a simple invitation to a Christian activity. He came to faith while attending college in India, where a Christian classmate invited Gajendra to come to church with him every Sunday for a year. Finally Gajendra decided to see why his classmate loved going to church. He didn't understand everything being said, but he loved the music, and a few months later he came to know Jesus as Savior and Lord. As seminary students Gajendra and his wife were recruited to serve as AWANA volunteers. They continued serving in AWANA throughout their seminary training. After graduation the couple became AWANA missionaries, and today they are tasked with training volunteer leaders to help serve in local churches in India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. In most AWANA groups in South Asia, 20 to 25% of the children come from non-Christian homes, including Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists. Some parents restrict their children from coming after they learn that Bible stories are being shared, while others accept the care and blessing their child receives even though it is coming from Christians. Gajendra will help us understand and pray for the training process to equip more leaders and ultimately to tell more children about Jesus. Listen for the story of an entire family coming to Christ through one child's prayer for healing and learn how you can pray for the salvation of the next generation—and their parents—in South Asia. Pray for more AWANA leaders willing to be disciple makers on the front lines and for believers and local churches facing persecution for their faith in Christ. Never miss an episode of VOM Radio! Subscribe to the podcast. Or you can listen each week—and get daily prayer reminders—in the VOM App for your smartphone or tablet.