Podcasts about lives we actually have

This week we are revisiting an episode originally recorded in April 2024 with the incredible Kate Bowler! She is a four-time New York Times bestselling author, award-winning podcast host, and an Associate Professor of American Religious History at Duke University. Jann and Kate discuss the importance of taking action in the face of challenges, the need for authentic conversations about grief, and the pressure to always be positive. They also touch on the topic of medically assisted dying and the complexities surrounding it. Kate Bowler shares her personal experiences with chronic pain and how it inspired her latest book, 'Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day,' which offers bite-sized reflections for navigating ups and downs in life. In this conversation, Kate Bowler discusses the challenges of navigating grief and supporting others in times of difficulty. They explore the concept of being overwhelmed by other people's problems and the need to set boundaries. They also discuss the role of religion and spirituality in coping with hardship and finding a sense of community. The conversation emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, love, and self-compassion in helping each other through tough times. More about Kate Bowler: Kate studies the cultural stories we tell ourselves about success, suffering, and whether (or not) we're capable of change. She is the author of Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel and The Preacher's Wife: The Precarious Power of Evangelical Women Celebrities. After being unexpectedly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35, she penned the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I've Loved) and No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear). She has also co-written with Jessica Richie, spiritual reflections: Good Enough: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection and The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days. Kate's most recent book, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! Daily Meditations for the Ups, Downs, and In-Betweens, is packed with bite-sized reflections and action-oriented steps to help you get through the day, be it good, bad, or totally mediocre. Kate hosts the award-winning Everything Happens podcast where, in warm, insightful, often funny conversations, she talks with people like Malcolm Gladwell and Beth Moore about what they've learned in difficult times. She lives in Durham, North Carolina with her family and continues to teach do-gooders at Duke Divinity School. https://katebowler.com/ Watch Kate Bowler's Ted Talk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. In this sermon we end our series, as well as begin a new on all on the same Sunday. On this Sunday we will celebrate All Saints Day by starting a three-weeks series devoted to the lives of the saints and how we encounter the gospel in them.

Emmy and Natalia read some poetry and Scripture and blessings to help us all through this chaotic and overwhelming and anxious time. Because we all need it, whenever we need it.    Support the show and what we do here: www.patreon.com/cafeteriachristian   Resources from today's episode: “Blessing in the Chaos” from The Cure for Sorrow - by Jan Richardson First Nations Version: https://firstnationsversion.com/book/first-nations-version/  Romans 8: 31-39 Lamentations 3: 19-30, 49-57 Luke 6, Matthew 5  John 18:33-38 Book of Common Prayer  Traditional Collect for the Nation Contemporary Collect for Social Justice excerpt from Madeleine L'Engle from Rhythm of Prayer - by Sarah Bessey  “For the Nation” from Ordinary Blessings, by Meta Herrick Carlson “For Feeling It All”, from Blessings for the Lives We Actually Have, by Kate Bowler  How to Love the World, by James Crews  Hope, by Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer   

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. In this sermon we talk about a scene from the Secret Life of Walter Mitty, a poem by Mary Oliver, some Scripture on the fleeting nature of life, and what it has to do with reverence.

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. Today's sermon is about our grief-stricken days. In this sermon we explore grief through a range of Scripture, the stages of grief, the question of meaning, and the high lonesome holler.  NOTE: Audio is a bit off this week. Apologies for the pour quality, but you should still be able to follow along.  

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. Today's sermon is about our overwhelming days. In this sermon consider two passage of Scripture as capturing the experience of being overwhelmed. In one sense we are like Peter, drowning in what's beyond our control. In another sense we are like Martha, distract by everything other than what matters most.

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. In this sermon we talk about how pain can be a catalyst for better things.

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. Today's sermon is about our lovely days. We consider a series of words—wonder, space, refresh, menuha, and savor—in order to find the gospel speaking to us in days we might call lovely. 

For the rest of Ordinary Time we will consider how the gospel speaks to our many varied days. We are using a book of prayers by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called The Lives We Actually Have as our structure and a source of inspiration. Today's sermon is about tired days. Addressing the great exhaustion of our culture, burnout, and quiet-quitting, we consider how a gospel understanding of leisure (thanks you Josef Pieper) might change our lives.

This week's guest is the incredible Kate Bowler! She is a four-time New York Times bestselling author, award-winning podcast host, and an Associate Professor of American Religious History at Duke University. Jann and Kate discuss the importance of taking action in the face of challenges, the need for authentic conversations about grief, and the pressure to always be positive. They also touch on the topic of medically assisted dying and the complexities surrounding it. Kate Bowler shares her personal experiences with chronic pain and how it inspired her latest book, 'Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day,' which offers bite-sized reflections for navigating ups and downs in life. In this conversation, Kate Bowler discusses the challenges of navigating grief and supporting others in times of difficulty. They explore the concept of being overwhelmed by other people's problems and the need to set boundaries. They also discuss the role of religion and spirituality in coping with hardship and finding a sense of community. The conversation emphasizes the importance of vulnerability, love, and self-compassion in helping each other through tough times. More about Kate Bowler: Kate studies the cultural stories we tell ourselves about success, suffering, and whether (or not) we're capable of change. She is the author of Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel and The Preacher's Wife: The Precarious Power of Evangelical Women Celebrities. After being unexpectedly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35, she penned the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I've Loved) and No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear). She has also co-written with Jessica Richie, spiritual reflections: Good Enough: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection and The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days. Kate's most recent book, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! Daily Meditations for the Ups, Downs, and In-Betweens, is packed with bite-sized reflections and action-oriented steps to help you get through the day, be it good, bad, or totally mediocre. Kate hosts the award-winning Everything Happens podcast where, in warm, insightful, often funny conversations, she talks with people like Malcolm Gladwell and Beth Moore about what they've learned in difficult times. She lives in Durham, North Carolina with her family and continues to teach do-gooders at Duke Divinity School. https://katebowler.com/ Watch Kate Bowler's Ted Talk Order her latest book Have a Beautiful Terrible Day: Daily Meditations For the Ups, Downs & In-Betweens Jann, Caitlin & Sarah also talked through some comments from listeners from last week's episode surrounding medically assisted death - stay tuned for next episode but here is the article that was referenced during this week's show: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-are-15-times-more-canadians-than-californians-choosing-assisted-death Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What lessons does life's uncertainties offer? Kate Bowler's stage IV cancer diagnosis ushered her into a world of fear and pain. Living in 60-day increments, her future held no promises. Angry about losing the life she had created, the love of family, friends, and her faith community helped Kate forge a new type of strength—learning to lean on others. This conversation between the nation's doctor and Kate Bowler illuminates how we find truth and beauty within the uncertainties of life. (05:07)    How did Kate Bowler's cancer diagnosis at age 35 affect her life?  (09:32)    Where did Kate Bowler navigate the uncertainty of her illness?  (12:02)    How did Kate Bowler re-define strength?  (14:26)    How did Kate Bowler's community support her during her most acute phase of illness?  (17:23)    How can other families build a village for their children?  (20:27)    How has Kate Bowler's health precarity changed how she thinks about life?  (25:56)    How can we encourage our kids to strive in a healthy way?  (29:38)    What is the message of Kate Bowler's most recent book?  (31:37)    When Kate Bowler was ill, how did others seem to expect her to fix her life?  (34:43)    How did Kate Bowler's experience with cancer impact her faith?  (39:15)    When is the last time Kate Bowler laughed uncontrollably?  (40:49)    Kate Bowler closes with a blessing.   We'd love to hear from you! Send us a note at housecalls@hhs.gov with your feedback & ideas. For more episodes, visit www.surgeongeneral.gov/housecalls.  Kate Bowler, Writer & Professor  Instagram: @katecbowler  X: @katecbowler  Facebook: @katecbowler    About Kate Bowler  Kate Bowler, Ph.D. is a 4x New York Times bestselling author, award-winning podcast host, and professor at Duke University. She studies the cultural stories we tell ourselves about success, suffering, and whether (or not) we're capable of change. She wrote the first and only history of the American prosperity gospel—the belief that God wants to give you health, wealth, and happiness—before being unexpectedly diagnosed with stage IV cancer at age 35. While she was in treatment and not expected to survive, she wrote two New York Times bestselling memoirs, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I've Loved) and No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear). After years of being told she was incurable, she was declared cancer-free. But she was forever changed by what she discovered: life is so beautiful and life is so hard. For everyone.  Kate is determined to create a gentler world for everyone who wants to admit that they are not “living their best life.” She hosts the Everything Happens podcast where, in warm, insightful, often funny conversations, she talks with people like Malcolm Gladwell, Tig Notaro, and Archbishop Justin Welby about what they've learned in difficult times. Author of seven books including Good Enough, The Lives We Actually Have, and her latest, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day!, she lives in Durham, North Carolina, with her family and continues to teach do-gooders at Duke Divinity School. 

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/eX7GZjdC4DEWhy can't people get over talking about race? Ever heard that line? Or, how about: We live in a post-racial world. We've even had a black president! If racism doesn't exist, then we don't have to deal with it. Yet racism, sadly, is alive and well—not just in our culture, but within the church. On this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Dr. Lainna Callentine—an educator, pediatrician, and former evangelical faith leader—delivers a powerful talk from our recent Restore Conference. Lainna has walked an incredibly difficult and painful journey as a Black woman in the evangelical church. This is a journey that white evangelicals often don't acknowledge. And it's an experience that Julie Roys, TRR founder and a friend of Lainna's, admits that she once didn't believe or affirm. But, just as Julie's eyes have been opened to abuse and corruption in the church, the past few years have given her a new awareness of racism in the church, as you'll hear in Julie's introduction of Lainna's talk. Lainna's talk, which is rich with history and personal anecdotes, has the power to open the eyes of many others. Please listen with a heart and mind open to what Lainna and the Holy Spirit have to say. Guests Lainna Callentine, M.D., M.Ed. Lainna Callentine, M.D., M.Ed., is a pediatrician, former homeschool mother, master's trained educator, and creator of curriculum program, Sciexperience. Dr. Callentine received her B.A. from Northwestern University and completed her M.D. at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. She has taught all levels from early childhood to postgraduate students. Learn more at sciexperience.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERSJulie Roys, LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. Julie Roys  00:04Why can’t people just get over talking about race? Ever heard that line? Or how about, we live in a post racial world, we even had a black president. Of course, if racism doesn’t exist, then we don’t have to deal with it. But as you’re about to hear racism, sadly is alive and well, not just in our culture, but within the church. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And on this podcast, you’re about to hear a powerful talk from our RESTORE conference by Dr. Lainna CALLENTINE Lainna is a pediatrician and an educator and a former faith leader in the evangelical church. But she’s also a friend of mine who’s walked an incredibly difficult and painful journey as a black woman in the white Evangelical Church. This is a journey that white evangelicals often don’t acknowledge. And as you’ll hear, it’s an experience I once didn’t believe or affirm. But just like I’ve had my eyes opened to abuse and corruption in the church, the past few years have opened my eyes to racism in the church as well. And coming to terms with this reality has been hard because I’ve had to deal with my own ignorance and indifference. And I’ve had to acknowledge my complicity with a sinful system that treats persons of color as less than full bearers of the image of God. But what Lainna did, coming into a predominantly white space and delivering this message was even harder. And I think that’s something I haven’t realized until recently as well. So many of our Black, Hispanic, Asian, and indigenous brothers and sisters have been profoundly wounded and traumatized by white Christians. And they have every reason to expect that when they speak to us, they’ll be minimized, dismissed, and traumatized again. I’m grateful that didn’t happen at RESTORE and I hope like the audience at RESTORE, you’ll open your heart and your mind to receive this important message from Dr. Lainna Callentine on surviving white evangelical racism.   Julie Roys  01:57 But before we hear from Lena, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington if you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM   Julie Roys  03:01 Well, again, you’re about to hear a talk by Dr. Lainna Callentine on surviving and thriving beyond white evangelical racism. I’ve also included in this podcast a portion of my introduction of Lainna at RESTORE, which includes an important apology. For time sake, I’ve had to remove my description of how my eyes were opened to racism in the church, while investigating what happened at Bethlehem Baptist Church, the Church John Piper pastored for three decades. But I encourage you if you want to understand more about the covert nature of racism in the evangelical church, go back and listen to our two-part podcast on what happened at Bethlehem Baptist Church when you’re finished with Lainna’s talk. But now here’s Lainna’s powerful talk at RESTORE 2023 with a short introduction and apology by me.   Julie Roys  03:49 So, three weeks ago, our next guest and I got together at her request, and we talked for about four hours. And she said, Julie, I just don’t know if I can do this talk. And she said this is what normally happens when I come into a predominantly white audience, and I talk about the trauma I’ve experienced as an African American woman in the church. So, I go out there and I bleed,  I bare my soul, and then they look at me with eyes of disbelief., and they just go on their way. And I mostly listened because I really didn’t have a lot to say, and I just needed to hear. And then she reminded me about how we had gotten together because our next guest is a friend of mine. In fact, she was my daughter’s 11th grade biology teacher. And she reminded me of a time we got together in a coffee house, and she shared her, really bared her soul to me, about all the racism that she had experienced. And she said, Julie, I didn’t feel like you believed me either. And the truth is six, seven, however, many years ago, this was I didn’t really believe it. I mean, I believe there was probably some racism in the church. It really wasn’t until I did the investigation on Bethlehem Baptist Church, John Piper’s church, and I got to know these people who had persons of color that had gotten together, had a dinner for the first time where it was just them. And they shared some of their experiences. And out of that, they decided that they wanted to put together a committee and address why is it that we have so few persons of color on our elder board? And then what happened with this committee is that then they spent, I forget how many months, a lot of months working on this, and then they gave their findings. And you know, it’s kind of death in committee. They gave their findings, that was it, nothing happened. Every single member of that committee ended up leaving the church.   Julie Roys  06:22 And so, it kind of opened my eyes to how this is done. And it’s kind of a covert thing. And I had to say to Lainna, you know what? I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I didn’t see that. And I’m sure that hurt you. And that was wrong of me. And I also told her that you guys are different. And when you’ve had enough bad experiences with white people, it’s hard to say this group is different. But I said, one, this group knows about believing victims, about believing survivors, and believing their stories. And we also know that when you get up and you bleed, when you tell your story, we get the cost. It’s like re traumatizing. And if you’re going to do that, and nothing’s going to happen. It’s like it happened again. Right? And so, I know you guys, I believe in you guys, or I wouldn’t have asked my friend to come, who I care about deeply. And It’s my prayer that this will be a healing experience for all of us. But especially for persons of color who have been hurt profoundly in the church. Just to tell you a little bit about Lainna’s credentials. She’s a pediatrician, who completed her MD at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. She’s also a former homeschool mother, Master’s trained educator, a creative curriculum program called SCI Experience. And then she served on a whole bunch of different Christian organizations that we would recognize, although she said to make sure that I say she was the former, or formerly served on the Physician Resource Council at Focus on the Family. But I love Lainna dearly. And I’ll just warn you, she doesn’t mince words. I have no idea what she’s gonna say. Let’s welcome Lainna.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 08:38 Thanks, Julie, for your words, and your apology is very heartfelt. Thank you. One of the things you need to know that I’m just traumatized being in this space speaking to you. Okay? And I know that as we prayed for all of you this morning, how coming into a church space listening to some of the songs that we’re singing, how traumatizing that is to you. And I hold that in my heart and understand that pain. As I’ve walked through evangelical spaces there are many things that have been said to me. These are just a few in the fine collection of lines that have been delivered to me with good intentions. I don’t see color. You are so articulate. You’re playing the race card that I’m doing reverse discrimination and racism. Why can’t people get over talking about race? I don’t even care if you’re black, white, or purple. I’m not sure. Only purple people I’ve seen are dead. But one of my best friends is black. We live in a post racial world. We’ve had a black president, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan. My family did not own slaves, and All Lives Matter. So, these are a few things. These are just a few of the sophomoric, unhelpful, and lacking insight retorts that I’ve received from my white brothers and sisters in Christ when discussing race with them. I’ve questioned myself over and over again, why am I here today? Up to this morning. I really didn’t think I could be here. A few months ago, as Julie said, when she asked me to speak at the RESTORE conference, I have struggled and questioned my need and your need to hear me speak. I have not spoken in front of a large audience since 2019. I swore off speaking in front of white Christian-like audiences, like someone giving up chocolate for Lent. I have been successful up until today to keep that pledge.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 11:08 This is a bit of a public coming out for me. Authentically, being myself, you’re the first people to see this. In the words of Maya Angelou. I no longer are beholding to the white gaze. I must have sat down 1000 times to write some kind of speech for you. I’ve struggled to share intimate parts of me, potentially to an audience and community like those in the past that caused me so much pain. It was then I was a respectable model Negro who provided a limited colorism to their homogeneity, I allowed myself to be squashed and to be strategically unassuming, as I would not convey the angry black woman or intimidate the fragility of the individuals around race. Now, I do not have the motivation or desire to wrap up this in joining into a neat tidy package sprinkled with various Bible verses and then joining hands to sing a rendition of Kumbaya making all feel comfortable with my threatening presence as an educated black woman. I’m going to be completely honest with you; discussing racial trauma in white evangelical spaces to me, as Julie was talking about, is like slitting my wrists for white folks to see me bleed as a bizarre form of curiosity and entertainment, while giving them the power to determine if my blood is red, debate the merits of the tool of my infliction and determine the depth of my wound and the level of pain I may be experiencing. All of this is based on their intellectualized bystander observations and their limited personal experiences. I’m tired of being treated when I talk about race, racism, unfair, unjust practices, and white Christian spaces as not being a credible witness. Being divisive and unloving in some way, my race disqualifies me, because I have a conflicted interest in my blackness, and that only white folks have the power to be the judge in jury in such matters.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 13:37 Julie assured me that this audience would be different. I told Julie, there is a great difference between white folk who have been hurt by the church and by the figures in Christian organizations, than the pain of being black in overwhelming Christian space. There are many nuances. Yes, Julie, they feel pain, isolation, and loss. But here’s the key difference. You see, Julie, you all were part of the family. You and they belonged until you didn’t. Me, however, while I was never part of the family, I was allowed to be in those spaces, tolerated as long as I did not upset the fragile balance or to critique or speak of the lack of people of color, in leadership or in lowly position in that space. I was to be unseen and unheard, and I was allowed to enjoy the delicious morsels that fell from the table where no seat was available for me. I felt a little bit like Charlie Brown ready to kick a football, getting into position to swing my leg, and Lucy quickly going from holding the ball and snatching it away again, and my landing square into my backside. I am so tired of not being believed, watching white folks finding no compelling reason to address the issue, feeling like they will lose something or be subjugated to the evils in demonic treatments that blacks have experienced. As if those like myself want to pay back every horror on white bodies that have been inflicted on us. I’ve watched white folks actively and complicitly be antithetical to the Gospel, denying the Imago Dei in all people. I’m tired of racism being viewed by white folk as a political issue outside the realm of the gospel and being chastised that we are one human race in a story.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 16:04 I hear God whispering, do you love me? A piece of me dies a bit, and my heart hardens repetitively, telling the story even if later a person starts to believe perhaps my story might be slightly credible. I have paid the price over and over. I feel God holding my hand,  will you trust me? I’ll be rejected and dismissed once again God. You are my child and so are they. But they hurt me so much. Look at all that I have lost. I have been hurt and othered all my life in predominantly white spaces. I have lost so much. I do not believe racism will ever go away. It is deeply rooted into the fabric and foundations and the DNA of this country.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 17:04 God can I really love these people? Proximity and the hugging it out doesn’t work. I fought this issue in the world and within my own home. I had no reprieve. I’ve got you, fall back into my arms. I will bear this. God, it’s so hard. But you have sent friends who have done the same who are not the same pigmentation of me. And many of them are here in this audience. They have borne with me the pain and loss that I’ve endured over the last several years. They have shown up with meals, encouragement, and prayer, sat beside me and held my hand on some of the darkest nights. They have listened to my disappointment and even my anger. They have been the hands and feet of Christ. Yes, Lord, I can love them. Because as I look around this room, I see so many of my friends. Although the pain is still there, hope has not been extinguished. I trust you, God, please stay by my side and walk with me and protect me.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 18:30 So, with that, I’m going to tell you a little bit about my story. But I can say something I couldn’t even say 72 hours ago. I love you guys. I have been hurt, but I still have hope. And I want to tell a little bit you know in this time. I’m like, How can I tell a hard story like this in 40 minutes? So, I’m gonna share a little bit about my story. I think parts of it that are  pertinent to this particular audience and my titular brothers and sisters. Unlike most African Americans, I’ve never been in an all-black space. I’ve never been part of a black church. I’ve always lived in white communities. And no, I was not adopted. Okay. So, growing up in white spaces, I also have had and continue to have education, because I just seem not to get enough. Right now, I’m getting a fourth degree from Wheaton College in evangelism and leadership. I decided to go there to see what white people were learning. And I got that done and knew in two weeks what was happening but dang I signed up for a three-year degree. That wasn’t well thought out. In my 30 years of formal education, I’ve only had two black instructors. A total of 12 weeks of those 30 years. I’ve learned to study white people learning to code switch and adapt in order to assimilate and be unassuming. My success depended on knowing how to operate in spaces. Their success I’ve learned culturally in medical school. And there have been times in my life where I was on the brink of wanting to join the Black Panther group and forever being away from white people, not black people, because Lord knows I haven’t been around them. So, I had an amazing mentor by the name of Dr. J. Hirsch, in medical school, he was a traditional Jewish man, amazing man. Had an incredible command of an audience. So, he was a child psychiatrist. And he always did the greeting at UIC, where I went to medical school for the incoming medical first year class. And he had a way that he could capture an audience. And I would be sitting in the audience with over 400 of my colleagues, and make you feel like you were the only one in that auditorium. And I was like, I don’t know what that is, but I want that. And one day he was offering, understanding the family as a patient. Anytime you treat a patient, you’re treating the whole family. And so, I decided I need to go to that class for this mysterious man. And I got into his class, it was just a four-week class. And one day I was walking down the hallway, and I was at that time, engaged to my white husband at the time. So, no one knew about that. We kept it kind of secret  I hung out with many of the black students, he came up to me and asked me if I would allow him to be my mentor. I looked at him like, really? I’m  like, I’m gonna have to think about this. I said, give me some time to think about this, and I walked off. I’m glad to report that I did take him up on his offer. And it was the most amazing time. Actually, my second child is named after Dr. J. Hirsch. He became my academic father; he used his privilege to stand beside me. I didn’t come from a whole line of doctors. I do have a brother that’s a doctor. And that’s something my parents instilled in us. But it wasn’t my background. And there were many times I struggled during medical school where I was close to being kicked out of medical school for academic failure. And he never did my work. I didn’t even know how to write a letter on my behalf. He would make me I would write it, he would edit it, he would make me write it over and over again until I got it right. And at one point, it was so bad that anytime I was called into the dean’s office for academic struggling, he would come with me. Didn’t say a word. I remember one time we were in the elevator, the doors closed, and I was exhausted, I was done. I was like,  I can’t fight anymore. And I remember when the doors close, that man took his fist and slammed it against the elevator door and let out a swear word that they better not eff with me. And at that point, his anger overwhelmed me. He freaked me out, oh, like, Man, this guy’s crazy. He wants it worse than I do. And he stood by my side. And that brought me to the brink of  going to the dark side.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 23:40 I spoke nationally in homeschool conferences all over the country. And I have a publisher that is, just Google my name, you’ll find out who it is. Who I worked with, who has my books. And I thought we believed the same thing. I was walking in any of these really big conservative organizations, even though I wasn’t up front or seen, I believed in the vision and mission. And as I watched the things that my children went through, and I watched my boys who were cute little biracial boys grow up to start looking like men, watching that they suddenly became dangerous. And I watched how I was treated in the world. And about five or six years ago, I said something’s wrong. So, I began to start speaking out about the racism and exclusion of people of color in leadership and the messaging of predominantly national organizations, ones that may have centered on white families using stock photos of black people to colorize their messaging to give the illusion that they were interested in diversity. I think the last thing that brought me back besides my great family from Tov that Julie spoke of, I’m part of that group of our Tov family, was I was bewildered just like you were. And I was like, these people’s orthodoxy do not match their orthopraxy. And I kept talking out, and I found myself at a conference called liberating. And check this. I did not put this on Facebook, liberating evangelism. decentering whiteness, okay. It’s like, what the heck is decentering whiteness? I don’t even know what that means. And so, I went into this conference., and at the time, I was already being kind of, excuse the pun, blacklisted in the evangelical circles. And I went into this conference, and I knew that no one that I associated would ever find themselves there. So, I walked into the hotel conference room, peeked my head in there, and a third of the people were white. I think I gasped out loud. And I stepped back, and I looked at the sign on the door. Yep. Liberating evangelism. decentering whiteness, why are there white people here?   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 26:20 And it was bizarre to me. And because no one in my evangelical circles would have been caught dead there. And so, I was fascinated as I watched the pulpit be shared by people of color of various nationalities. Now, this is the first time I was at a conference that I didn’t see a white male be a keynote speaker. And what I saw from the indigenous to Latinos, and Asians and other people that did it, it had a different flavor. So I was out of my mind, like observing this really weird world. And I asked one of the white individuals, why are you here? And they looked at me like I was asking a trick question. And they’re like, What do you mean? I said, “Did you not read my lips? Let me try this again. Why are you here? And they said, because the Bible says we should love our brother. And I like, seriously? Do you really believe that? Like, yeah, what else would that mean? And it was that adventure that I went into. And as I started sharing my circles, no one in this circle that I was at, had any idea really of Focus on the Family, or any of these organizations I associated in the homeschool world. And I’m like, Don’t you know who they are? I was like, kind of proud., because I was name dropping all those people. They’re like, I don’t know who these people are. And I was like, really? Because they told me they’re the center of Christianity. But you guys say you’re Christians, but you don’t know those people? They're like, nope, no clue. And so, after I would introduce myself, people would look at me at the conference like, and when those ASPCA commercials, you know, with the little dog in the cage shaking, they would look at me like really pathetically like, Oh, bless her heart, look at her. And I didn’t understand it at the time. And so, after one of the meetings, I was sitting on the couch just bewildered because I had not the language to describe what I was experiencing in the white evangelical space. And, lo Behold, this is how God works, a white woman stood and sat beside me. I was in my thoughts. She put her hand on my shoulder, and she goes, I know from which you come. And it’s just like, God, you know, and I was like, Oh, my gosh. And she’s like, Oh, I know all the people you’re talking about. I’m like you do because I was feeling kind of crazy. Like they didn’t really exist. And she goes, Yes, I’m a homeschool mom. I’m from Florida but I live in Philadelphia. And I traveled here because my husband gave me this gift. And I have two little boys, the woman was white, and I vow that I won’t raise them in the stuff that I was raised in. I was like, wow, this is a whole new world. And she goes, Well, where are you staying tonight? I’m like, I don’t know, this hotel is kind of expensive. I’ll find somewhere else to stay. She’s like, why don’t you stay with me? I said seriously, in your hotel room? I’m like It’s been a while since I’ve been in college and stuff. But so, I said, Okay, this is crazy, but I’ll stay in your room.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 29:40 So over two nights, this white woman mentored me. She’s like, and she didn’t chastise me. She’s like, okay, Lainna, you need a little help here. So, get a notepad out. Okay. And she’s like, let me give you names of some podcasts and some authors. She’s giving me black authors and other things, all the stuff that was taboo, and evangelical will start discovering James Cohn. And I started discovering the real Malcolm X and the real Martin Luther King. I started reading all these things. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t even know about James Baldwin. Nothing in my education had prepared me for this stuff. And she bandaged my wounds that night and brought me from the brink of hate. So, I share that, in that she was willing to step into space with me and walk with me.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 30:39 And my third story of where my friends have come, the last three years, I have had a new friend group. They don’t know they just laugh when I tell them where I’ve been. And these organizations that I have served, and they’re like, that doesn’t sound like the Lainna we know. Like, I know, I’m kind of a different person now. And the way that they’ve come beside me, and the love that I’ve been shown has been unprecedented. So, I can’t thank my friends enough. One of the things that has been really grounding into me is I had the opportunity to go to Ghana this summer. It was life changing, I will never be the same. I am so grounded now. I went on something called a Sankofa. It’s called and Sankofa is from the language A Twi from Ghana, and it means loosely, go back, and get it. And so the whole idea, and this is me sitting on underneath a Sankofa is the bird is facing forward, its neck is backwards. And as it’s going forward, it has the ability to look back. So, the idea is to retrieve things of value from knowledge of the past, you have to go back to move forward. And living in a country where they’re trying to ban all black history as if it’s alternative American history. I have grown up in a world that has told me my people were nothing; that we were savages until we had the unfortunate issue of slavery. And well, that was kind of a bummer. But now we’ve had the opportunity to be civilized. There is no history that we’ve done anything significant in this country or anything. So, I’ve always felt lost. I felt I couldn’t understand who I was. And so, when I went to Africa, I felt an incredible grounding, and a sense of pride. I couldn’t find it here. But I found it there. I learned about my ancestry, that I’m the descendant of kings and queens, where the European Christianity is not nearly as old as the African Christianity. So, I’m learning all these things I never had an opportunity, and it has been life changing. So, I went to for the first time in my life to be in a place where people look like me. Okay? I get lost in the crowd. I’ve never had that happen to me before. And so, we were able to be entertained by African chiefs. And actually, one of the chiefs reminded me of my father. I’ve never been in a group where I could actually see me, and I saw this man, and he resembles my father. Both my parents died of COVID, a couple of years ago, two weeks apart. And I’m going to tell you a little bit about that in a moment. But to see this man, I just welled up in tears and crying because I could see myself for the first time.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 34:08 So going to Ghana, I’d never seen all these billboards with black folk. Okay? I think I saw one billboard with one white person, but everything from their leaders to their celebration to everything else, I saw me. But the interesting thing in Ghana, there’s no such thing as a black person. And so that kind of understanding that their race is invisible, helped me to understand how white people see their race as being invisible. So, to be able to relish in the joys of being a part of a community where people looked at me, looked like me was incredible.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 34:50 I also had the opportunity to visit the Cape Coast and the Gold Coast. And I went into two castles that housed my ancestors when they were stolen raped and taken from their homes. And these castles are on the Cape Coast, Elmira and a Cape Coast Castle. And these were built in the 1400s. This one, particularly by the Portuguese was a trading post that later became a place for black cargo. So, to walk in these buildings and these castles to try to embody and feel the pain of my ancestors was overwhelming. And as I walked through one of the uncommon things that you wouldn’t imagine belief, do you guys know what that is? This is in the middle of one of the castles. It’s a church. There were churches where white people would come while the suffering and horror happened in the same space. And this was very formative to me. At one point, we were merged with a group of white tourists. And it was interesting to watch the white tourists posture. Believe it or not, our whole group from Wheaton College was black. I don’t know how that happened. But all of us were black that were on the trip. And we were merged with the white group. And as we walked solemnly through the sacred places, we watched our white brothers and sisters act like they were on a field trip. They would push to get in the front to get a better view. As they talked about the carnage that was happening in the space, I remember, we went up to the governors quarters. And they were telling us in the space that the governor’s quarters was, it would house up to nine people. That same space down below, would house over 300 of enslaved Africans in the space, without food, any kind of hygiene. Everything happened in that space. And what did my white brothers and sisters say, as they were in that space? They were looking out the windows and talking about what a beautiful view there was. So, at that point, I was like, I’m done. I can’t be around this. And I was sitting next to one of the cannons that protected the castle, kind of reflecting on it and someone kind of caught that picture of me at the time. This is one of the things on the castle. It reads an everlasting memory of the anguish of our ancestors. May those who died Rest in peace, May those who returned find their roots. May humanity never again perpetrate such injustice against humanity. We the living vow to uphold this. So, my whole talk is supposed to be about surviving and thriving. I know about surviving; I have been in survival mode for some time. I’ve had in the last four years I’ve had a total knee replacement as a former athlete along with many health challenges, I’ve ventured into spiritual wilderness teasing out the Jesus of the Bible, versus the twisted Jesus that had no concern for justice. Those who have been harmed in the church, who were unable to refuse to see the imago Dei and all people. I navigated racial unrest and the silence of my white Christian friends and my former circles, who always had something to say about black bleeding and dying bodies laying the street about their character and had nothing to say about the character of a yellow haired man with a bad comb over sitting in the Oval Office. I lost my 30-year marriage to a white man. I haven’t gone public. My divorce was finalized about six months ago. And had a lot to do with this issue. My family has been shattered. I’m watching the politicization of mass while millions die across the world from COVID. And those last being considered expendable. Watching my dad die over FaceTime, due to COVID and not being able to hold his hand or be present as he drew in his last breath,. No funeral and then there’d have to be my mom who died two weeks later. This is just a few of the things that I’ve had to survive over the last four years. I’ve survived a predominantly white churches where my pain and the pain of others who look like me were ignored so that my brighten brothers and sisters could remain comfortable without self-examination.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 39:49 I understand surviving. Surviving is remaining alive. Some days, that was all I could do. It’s continuing to exist after coming close to dying and being destroyed. surviving is holding up holding on and enduring when very little is left in your tank. I know all of you guys understand that. At times surviving is all that we can do. God carried and continues to carry me and you through this. God brought friends into my life who bandaged my wounds and lifted me up when I had no strength on my own.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 40:28 So, I want to get a little geeky, I want to show you something about healing. So, you know, I’m a doctor, and I kind of like that science thing and stuff. So, I’m going to talk about healing by secondary intention. So, this is like a medical picture. So, bear with me, maybe you can see the analogy here is, there are two ways of healing, there’s called first intention versus second intention. So, when a surgeon goes in to repair something, and they make that clean cut, after they repair it, they bring the edges nicely together and sew things up. That leaves a minimal scar. Okay? I feel like what we’re all going through is healing by second intention. And what that is, is when you have a gaping wound, and let’s say it’s been open for some time, or it gets pulled open several times. After about six to eight hours, for more as close to six, we as physicians can’t sew that wound up because of the concern of infection. So, you let that wound stay open. And with that open wound, you have to care for that wound. A lot of times we have antibiotics, and we’ll pack that antibiotic in that wound that the dressings have to get changed often. And as that wound is going through the healing, it actually heals from the bottom up, okay? From the inside, out. And I see us kind of like that secondary intention, as that wounding first we have to start that healing inside of us as we work it out. And then, of course, the scarring from second intention healing is much greater. There’s much scarring, but it’s been restored in a new way. And I feel that a lot of what we’re going through is similar to that secondary healing.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 42:21 So, we talked about surviving, what about thriving? I started looking through this whole idea, what does it mean to be thriving? Am I thriving? I do feel like I have a little more. The fact that I’m here is a big testimony that I’m starting to feel God’s healing presence, and it’s working. And thriving means growing and developing, having resilience. It means you’re comfortable with yourself, you’re able to take control of your physical, mental, and spiritual health. And there’s an increased optimism for the future. Ah, I think I’m starting to thrive. It’s not that the pain is not there. It’s not even that I believe that this world will ever get better. But I know as we walk and take our wounds, and we heal from them, the power that GOD can do with us through our thriving. So, we have a thriving we have flourishing. Like how is thriving and flourishing different? And Acts 2:42-47, If you read that when it talks about the hospitality, it’s a place of a joyous community, where there’s a festival friends. And there are five domains in flourishing; one, happiness and satisfaction that’s gonna look a little different for each of us. It is having the mental and physical health, having meaning and purpose in your life, and character and virtue. Now I know we’ve had a lot of character training in evangelical spaces. So, this will sound bizarre, but that character in virtue cannot be fully embodied unless you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Okay? And most churches and evangelical spaces talk about God, Jesus, and the Holy Bible, because Lord, we won’t get close to the Holy Spirit because that gets a little radical and out of control. And that doesn’t go in our 20-minute sermon series that we’re trying to do. Okay? So, in order to have good character and virtue it has to be nurtured through the Holy Spirit. And lastly, close relationships, close good social relationships. And finally, how do we get there? Okay. In 2019, as I was swearing off white evangelical spaces like chocolate I feel like God laid four words on my heart about this and it seems to apply to all these hard circumstances and prior speakers have spoke of this. So, the four words, the first one is lament. This is not feeling sorry, this is not God created you white. It’s a beautiful thing. No one’s asking you to be anything else than what you’ve been graded. But understanding that hearing these issues, no one wants pity. It’s a legitimate lament, it’s not a sadness. It’s not an Oh! that’s so sad. A lament is a deep longing in pain and sorrow for something. Unless you can lament, you can’t move forward. So, it is a spotty window that someone has talked about that embodying it.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 45:45 The second word he sent me was liberate. Oh my gosh, this seems out of touch. Because of all that stuff I hear an evangelical word about liberating means once Jesus comes, then we’ll be good. No, this means as soon as you see the problem, you have to liberate that issue. You don’t wait till Jesus comes. I lament, there’s a problem, it needs to be corrected now. I love how we like use time; I was told this at a prominent school, Christian school, you know, Lainna, you’re just trying to rush us too much. We’re just going to need a little more time to change hearts. Like seriously? Wait, your Bible says, When you see something wrong, you correct it. How does racism take time? So, you have to liberate.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 46:37 Third thing is to reclaim because Lord knows, you have to, like clean that space out. And you have to reclaim it for Christ because of the distortion and the evilness that’s been pervaded there, that space has to be reclaimed, or that mess comes back. And lastly, you have to reimagine. This is not a little tweaking of systems, you know, like finding a couple more chocolate chips to put into  your little organization to try to give the issue that you have reformed yourself. This is a whole reimagining. It’s a whole reimagining of systems and purposes of what you’ve done. You can’t tweak something that’s already distorted, tainted and evil. So, wow, I’m doing good, it’s only 49 seconds. Yes. Okay, so I didn’t think I could do this.   LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 47:40 So, I just want to leave you I have a little bit of I don’t know if you guys know this book, I didn’t write it. Darn! I wasn’t thinking – I should have brought my own books and should have been holding them up like this. But this is not one  I wrote. But it’s by Kate Bowler and it’s The Lives We Actually Have. And I thought something and it’s 100 blessings for imperfect days. And there was a perfect blessing that I want to leave with you. It’s called for when you’ve been hurt by the church. God saw me walk away. I had to, for what was supposed to have been a refuge, a community of hope and purpose, mutual encouragement, distorted all I understand you to be. Oh God, lead me to the heart of love so I might find the healing I need and protect the reverence I have for you. For you do not consume, but rather feed, you do not destroy but build up. You do not abandon your little ones but insist that they belong in your arms. Enfolded here, I see you now. The God who loves us to the end. For though I walked away, you didn’t. You found me and will lead me. Let’s now find the others. Thank you.   Julie Roys  49:17 Will again that’s Dr.Lainna Callentine speaking at RESTORE 2023 and Lainna, thank you so much for sacrificing yourself on our behalf to bring this message. And as you explained, there is no quick fix to racism. We need to lament deeply. We need to totally reimagine our systems and our purposes. And that’s something we’re committed to doing at The Roys Report. And I don’t know exactly what that entails, but I am confident that the Holy Spirit does. And we are committed to listening to the Spirit and to following the spirit. So please pray for us as we continue to take Lainna’s message to heart. And as we continue to discern how to practically walk out our conviction that every human being is a bearer of God’s image and worthy of equal respect and love. And I hope you’ll do the same. There’s so much to process in what Lainna said. But dealing with racism is not optional. Any more than following Christ command to love each other is optional. So, let’s commit to doing that together. And again, thank you so much for listening and supporting our podcasts and our mission here at The Roys Report. As I’ve noted before, we don’t have any big donors or advertisers, we simply have you, the people who care about abuse and corruption in the church and want to expose it. So, if you’re able, would you please consider giving a gift to support our ministry? And this month when you donate $30 or more, we’ll send you a copy of The Great DeChurching. This is a great resource exploring what’s causing the current exodus out of the church, and what can be done to stop the bleed. To donate and to get the book just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you’re blessed and encouraged.   Read more

This episode continues Elle's series asking the question about gender identity, Am I Transgender? This edition stands alone but is probably best absorbed in the context of the previous five (linked below). Elle talks about the spiritual nature of her transition, and how she made sense of it as someone who believes in the divine, the camaraderie she experienced meeting and hearing the stories of other trans people, and the professional medical consensus on her personal case. Additional themes in this episode of Transgender Woman Talking include: support groups, the DSM-V, the WPATH, Kate Bowler and her book "The Lives We Actually Have", conversion therapy or reparative therapy, gaslighting, gatekeeping, code language, and medical procedures. . Previous episodes in the series: Am I Transgender? (Part 1) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/twatpodcast/episodes/Am-I-Transgender-e1r3df3/a-a8tfsck Am I Transgender? (Part 2) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/twatpodcast/episodes/Am-I-Transgender--Part-2-e1t0hp9/a-a94fg40 Am I Transgender? (Part 3) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/twatpodcast/episodes/Am-I-Transgender--Part-3-e1v9592/a-a9c8939 Am I Transgender? (Part 4) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/twatpodcast/episodes/Am-I-Transgender--Part-4-e23bj4a/a-a9ouuq2 Am I Transgender? (Part 5) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/twatpodcast/episodes/Am-I-Transgender--Part-5-e26pv66 . Reach out to Elle at the following email address: twatpodcasting@gmail.com with constructive feedback, questions, or connection :)

This blessing is featured in Kate's conversation with Krista, “On Being in a Body.” It's published in her book The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days. Kate Bowler's beloved books include Everything Happens for a Reason (And Other Lies I've Loved) and most recently, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days. She is an associate professor at Duke Divinity School, and made an early name in her field of American religious history with her 2013 book Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel. She also hosts the podcast Everything Happens.

We love the theologian Kate Bowler's allergy to every platitude and her wisdom and wit about the strange and messy fullness of what it means to be in a human body. She's best known for her 2018 book Everything Happens for a Reason (And Other Lies I've Loved) — a poetic and powerful reflection on learning at age 35 that she had Stage IV colon cancer. From a reset on how to think about aging, to the new reality in our time of living with cancer as a chronic illness, to the telling of truths to our young, this beautiful conversation is full of the vividly whole humanity that Kate Bowler singularly embodies. (Also, as you'll hear, if she hadn't become a theologian, she might have been a stand-up comedian.)Krista and Kate spoke as part of the 2023 Aspen Ideas Festival.Kate Bowler's beloved books include Everything Happens for a Reason (And Other Lies I've Loved) and most recently, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days. She is an associate professor at Duke Divinity School and made an early name in her field of American religious history with her 2013 book Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel. She also hosts the podcast Everything Happens.Find the transcript for this show at onbeing.org._____Sign up for The Pause — a Saturday morning companion to the podcast season.

Jessica's back and we're talking all our favorites: summer memories, go-to meals, outfits and mantras. Plus, things what we're letting go of, what (and who) is inspiring us and how to make the mornings go smoother.  We love the book The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie. These are Jessica's favorite running shorts. Unfortunately, the linen pants she's been enjoying are all sold out!  Here's a podcast episode with Steve Martin that Michelle loved. And here's a black version of the jumpsuit she's loving. 

“I'm really hopeful that we're evolving past our very hyper individualistic understanding of like, my health, wealth and happiness is the great goal. And that we're trying to fold in a more collective, and I hope, generous sense that like our lives will require love. Our lives will require courage and interdependence, you know, and it's probably going to never fall along any of our demographic, political, religious, sociocultural dreams that advertising companies have for us, but instead it's gonna require a very collective sense of what can we become?” It is not without a dose of irony that professor Kate Bowler—a prolific historian and author about the Prosperity Gospel—was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at the age of 35. After all, her work had revolved around parsing a spiritual point-of-view that if you were a good person, a good Christian, good things would invariably happen…like wealth and health. From her diagnosis, she wrote a bestselling book: Everything Happens for a Reason—and Other Lies I've Loved and added an entirely new dimension to her scholarship at Duke. She's now in remission and the host of the Everything Happens podcast, and has written several more bestsellers, including books of devotionals like The Lives We Actually Have and Good Enough. In today's conversation, we covered a lot of ground—the inherent goodness of people, when we rise to the occasion, and whether evil as an absolute exists. Okay, let's get to our conversation. MORE FROM KATE BOWLER: The Everything Happens Podcast The Lives We Actually Have No Cure for Being Human Everything Happens for a Reason—and Other Lies I've Loved Good Enough Kate Bowler's Website Follow Kate on Instagram To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join Katherine and her dear friend, Kate Bowler, as they discuss living in the Joyful Rebellion if this GoodHard Story. Kate Bowler, PhD is a New York Times bestselling author, podcast host, and a professor at Duke University. She studies the cultural stories we tell ourselves about success, suffering, and whether (or not) we're capable of change. At age 35, she was unexpectedly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer, causing her to think in different terms about the research and beliefs she had been studying. She penned the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I've Loved), which tells the story of her struggle to understand the personal and intellectual dimensions of the American belief that all tragedies are tests of character. To learn more about Kate and her books, including her newest release "The Lives We Actually Have" check out her website.   To learn more about Hope Heals, you can find us at: www.hopeheals.com www.mendcoffee.org www.hopehealscamp.com www.instagram.com/hopeheals

How do you live knowing life can just come undone at a moment's notice? In the span of a few months, Tig Notaro received three life-threatening illnesses, unexpectedly lost her mom, and went through a breakup. Tig is a brilliant comedian whose real life informs her comedy and has a lot to teach us about living honestly in the face of reality.  In this conversation, Kate and Tig discuss:  Tig's “hands-off” parents and her journey of self-discovery, eventually uncovering her talents in the entertainment industry and making her a respected figure in comedy How Tig Notaro's family of “real characters,” served as an abundant source of comedic inspiration in her life (including the best graveyard story ever) How to live alongside fear of what you know could actually happen? CW: cancer, death of parent *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do you live knowing life can just come undone at a moment's notice? In the span of a few months, Tig Notaro received three life-threatening illnesses, unexpectedly lost her mom, and went through a breakup. Tig is a brilliant comedian whose real life informs her comedy and has a lot to teach us about living honestly in the face of reality. In this conversation, Kate and Tig discuss:  Tig's “hands-off” parents and her journey of self-discovery, eventually uncovering her talents in the entertainment industry and making her a respected figure in comedy How Tig Notaro's family of “real characters,” served as an abundant source of comedic inspiration in her life (including the best graveyard story ever) How to live alongside fear of what you know could actually happen? CW: cancer, death of parent***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What makes a good life? How would you answer that question? Not just life in the abstract… but what makes YOUR life good? Professor Miroslav Volf teaches a popular class at Yale University which guides students through these kinds of questions and might help us all think a little more deeply about what our lives are adding up to be.In this conversation, Kate and Miroslav discuss:   Why just practicing the habits of a good life doesn't make a life meaningful (hint: we need to be thinking about the ends) Importance of asking questions we don't always have the answers to How to define joy What does flourishing look like when we feel like we're “losing”  How joy and suffering can coexist  On a personal note, this is a special interview for Kate because Miroslav was also her professor at Yale and someone she looks up to with joy and admiration.***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What makes a good life? How would you answer that question? Not just life in the abstract… but what makes YOUR life good? Professor Miroslav Volf teaches a popular class at Yale University which guides students through these kinds of questions and might help us all think a little more deeply about what our lives are adding up to be. In this conversation, Kate and Miroslav discuss:   Why just practicing the habits of a good life doesn't make a life meaningful (hint: we need to be thinking about the ends) Importance of asking questions we don't always have the answers to How to define joy What does flourishing look like when we feel like we're “losing”  How joy and suffering can coexist   On a personal note, this is a special interview for Kate because Miroslav was also her professor at Yale and someone she looks up to with joy and admiration. *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren't they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us. In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss:  How we can't outrun our grief How our own parents love us in the ways they want to be loved, but maybe not in the ways we need—and how we find our ways back to each other The desire to share with our kids how we love, where we fail, where we tried, and who we were before we were their parent  CW: death of parent, divorce***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren't they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us.  In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss:  How we can't outrun our grief How our own parents love us in the ways they want to be loved, but maybe not in the ways we need—and how we find our ways back to each other The desire to share with our kids how we love, where we fail, where we tried, and who we were before we were their parent   CW: death of parent, divorce *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special episode, Kate Bowler joins host Sarah Bessey for a conversation about the search for spiritual language around blessing and praying without certainty. Kate also fields questions from the Evolving Faith community about her own faith journey and how that has shaped her thoughts about hope, “un-spiritual” feelings, and the character of God. They also chat about Kate's latest book, which she co-authored with Jessica Richie, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days, and the process of writing blessings for our honest, human, everyday existence.  Show Notes 2023 Evolving Faith Conference

Kate Bowler is an author, podcaster and professor at Duke University, and Nora's dear friend. And the thing that helps her remember it's going to be okay is … ketchup. You can find Kate's podcast, Everything Happens with Kate Bowler, wherever you listen to podcasts. Her most recent book, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days, is available wherever you get books. You can find information on Kate's newsletter and other books on her website. Want to hear more from Kate? Listen to “Life After Certainty,” an interview with Nora about Kate's academic work and cancer diagnosis, on our sister show, "Terrible, Thanks for Asking." “It's Going To Be OK” is a daily podcast from Feelings and Co. Each morning, we bring you a short story, essay, or interview about one thing that makes us (or our guests) feel like it might not all be so bad – even if some things are. If you liked this episode, go subscribe to "It's Going To Be OK" in your podcast app, so you never miss a single OK thing!  Share your OK thing at 612.568.4441 or by emailing a voice memo to IGTBO@feelingsand.co. We may use your submission in a future episode! “It's Going To Be OK” is brought to you by The Hartford. The Hartford is a leading insurance provider that's helping to simplify employee benefits by making them more personal and easier to understand. The IGTBO team is Nora McInerny, Jordan Turgeon, Megan Palmer, Claire McInerny, Marcel Malekebu, and Eugene Kidd. The transcript for this episode can be found here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Bowler is an author, podcaster and professor at Duke University, and Nora's dear friend. And the thing that helps her remember it's going to be okay is… ketchup. You can find Kate's podcast, Everything Happens with Kate Bowler, wherever you listen to podcasts. Her most recent book, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days, is available wherever you get books. You can find information on Kate's newsletter and other books on her website. Want to hear more from Kate? Listen to “Life After Certainty,” an interview with Nora about Kate's academic work and cancer diagnosis, on our sister show, Terrible, Thanks for Asking. “It's Going To Be OK” is a daily podcast from Feelings and Co, the company that brought you “Terrible, Thanks for Asking.” Each morning, we bring you a short story, essay, or interview about one thing that makes us (or our guests) feel like it might not all be so bad – even if some things are. Share your OK thing at 612.568.4441 or by emailing IGTBO@feelingsand.co. “It's Going To Be OK” is brought to you by The Hartford. The Hartford is a leading insurance provider that's helping to simplify employee benefits by making them more personal and easier to understand. The IGTBO team is Nora McInerny, Jordan Turgeon, Megan Palmer, Claire McInerny, Marcel Malekebu and Eugene Kidd. The transcript for this episode can be found here.

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO's Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom.  In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss: How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed The unfinished ways people love us—reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace The way Minka's mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time   CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO's Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom. In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss: How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed The unfinished ways people love us—reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace The way Minka's mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time  CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Some people are the LEAN IN sort. They lean into your unsolvable problems, show up on your impossible days, and walk with you all the way to the end. How do we become them? How do we create belonging when the people we love experience such uncertainty? Practical theologian and mental health nurse John Swinton knows a thing or two about this kind of love.  In this conversation, Kate and John discuss:  The importance of learning to be present for people with intellectual disabilities, dementia, or in mental health crises  How two places that should be known as places of belonging—the church and the hospital—have become difficult for fragile people… and how we might begin to make these institutions better A theology of hope we might all be able to sign up for (Spoiler: Hope is a long story.)  How love moves at a certain speed, so we all might need to slow down a bit ***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Some people are the LEAN IN sort. They lean into your unsolvable problems, show up on your impossible days, and walk with you all the way to the end. How do we become them? How do we create belonging when the people we love experience such uncertainty? Practical theologian and mental health nurse John Swinton knows a thing or two about this kind of love.   In this conversation, Kate and John discuss:  The importance of learning to be present for people with intellectual disabilities, dementia, or in mental health crises  How two places that should be known as places of belonging—the church and the hospital—have become difficult for fragile people… and how we might begin to make these institutions better A theology of hope we might all be able to sign up for (Spoiler: Hope is a long story.)  How love moves at a certain speed, so we all might need to slow down a bit *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kelly shares her own “go to” mantra as well as two blessings from frequent Kelly Corrigan Wonders guest Kate Bowler and her co-author/friend/podcast producer Jessica Richie's beautiful and extremely useful book: The Lives We Actually Have (100 Blessings for Imperfect Days). The book is full of warm and witty blessings found within the struggles of our shared humanity, from the New York Times bestselling authors of Good Enough.

Easter 3A | Acts 2 Our texts this week are here  Our prayer this week is from The Lives We Actually Have by Kate Bowler  Join us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/aplainaccount   Some commentaries assisting in Easter season: Jerusha Matsen Neal on workingpreacher.org and Acts by Willie Jennings (Belief Series), Acts by Beverly Roberts Gaventa (Abingdon NT), Acts For Everyone by N. T. Wright Browse the rest of our curated booklists! Purchasing through this affiliate link generates a small commission for us and is a great way to support the show https://bookshop.org/shop/aplainaccount   Other resources on our website: commentaries, discipleship, liturgics, music.

Maggie Smith (poet and author of books like Keep Moving and You Could Make This Place Beautiful) chronicles the aftermath of a painful divorce she didn't see coming. How do we raise our kids in the wake of such change? And how do we reconcile who we are and who we are becoming? In this conversation, Maggie and Kate discuss: How to support someone going through divorce The metaphor of nesting dolls as how we contain who we were before (and how our befores and afters might not be as dramatic as we thought) Speaking honestly with our children about the beauty and tragedy of the world Why tragedies are not worth the “lessons” that we might learn from them CW: divorce***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Maggie Smith (poet and author of books like Keep Moving and You Could Make This Place Beautiful) chronicles the aftermath of a painful divorce she didn't see coming. How do we raise our kids in the wake of such change? And how do we reconcile who we are and who we are becoming?  In this conversation, Maggie and Kate discuss: How to support someone going through divorce The metaphor of nesting dolls as how we contain who we were before (and how our befores and afters might not be as dramatic as we thought) Speaking honestly with our children about the beauty and tragedy of the world Why tragedies are not worth the “lessons” that we might learn from them CW: divorce *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when the people we built our lives around stop needing us? Or when we have to pick between our meaningful careers or our family? And what do we do with the ambiguous grief that comes with every expected and unexpected change? Today, Kate takes an honest look at juggling the demands on our time and on our heart with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly. Kate and Mary Louise discuss:  Debunking the women can “have it all” paradigm and what happens when the things we love come into conflict The limitations of gratitude How our callings pull us into a wider sense of who we belong to How to savor (and mourn) all the lasts as your children grow older   This may be a conversation about parenting, but I think there might be something in here for anyone who wonders: Who am I as my relationships change? Can I still find myself there? *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when the people we built our lives around stop needing us? Or when we have to pick between our meaningful careers or our family? And what do we do with the ambiguous grief that comes with every expected and unexpected change? Today, Kate takes an honest look at juggling the demands on our time and on our heart with NPR's Mary Louise Kelly.Kate and Mary Louise discuss:  Debunking the women can “have it all” paradigm and what happens when the things we love come into conflict The limitations of gratitude How our callings pull us into a wider sense of who we belong to How to savor (and mourn) all the lasts as your children grow older  This may be a conversation about parenting, but I think there might be something in here for anyone who wonders: Who am I as my relationships change? Can I still find myself there?***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join us each day of Holy Week for an audio devotion. Watch the video version on our YouTube channel! Reading: Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie, The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (New York: Convergent Press, 2023). Pages 206-207 Scripture:  John 18:1-19:42 First Presbyterian Church, New Bern, North Carolina, established in 1817. A Congregation of the Presbyterian Church (USA). Building community, transforming lives, engaging the world. See more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.firstpresnb.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow us on social media at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/firstpresnb⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch our virtual service each week at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtube.com/channel/UCKw0GnheJfOUlVv_g5bBrEw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Permission to podcast/stream live music in this service obtained from ONE LICENSE, License A-701790 and CCLI 3202763. All rights reserved. Permission to podcast/stream recorded music from artist.io.

How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness. In this conversation, we discuss:   The mysterious way beauty can be found the closer we inch to death (our own or someone else's). The importance of just showing up. And being you.  Honoring someone's memory at the same time being truthful about how human they were The peace that comes from acknowledging that life is full of dualities  “If you have to go through hell, don't come out empty handed” (Steve Leder), but no, the lessons were never, ever worth the pain CW: suicide, adult language***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness.  In this conversation, we discuss:   The mysterious way beauty can be found the closer we inch to death (our own or someone else's). The importance of just showing up. And being you.  Honoring someone's memory at the same time being truthful about how human they were The peace that comes from acknowledging that life is full of dualities  “If you have to go through hell, don't come out empty handed” (Steve Leder), but no, the lessons were never, ever worth the pain CW: suicide, adult language *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian and Canadian politician Michael Ignatieff explores the cracks in our seamless worldviews… or at least the worldviews we thought were seamless until we're faced with tragedies of all kinds. In this wide-ranging exploration, Kate and Michael probe humanity's enduring attempt to console ourselves and construct meaning from our pain. In this conversation, Kate and Michael discuss: Why truth and trust are so important when it comes to finding meaning in our pain The difference between comfort and consolation  The limits of stoicism and hyper-futurism  What it means to be hopeful The importance of community through pain and suffering   Michael does not denigrate anyone's attempt for comfort, but asks us to look carefully at the consolation that lasts. He asks: What is consolation? And why do we all crave that practice of meaning-making? *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Historian and Canadian politician Michael Ignatieff explores the cracks in our seamless worldviews… or at least the worldviews we thought were seamless until we're faced with tragedies of all kinds. In this wide-ranging exploration, Kate and Michael probe humanity's enduring attempt to console ourselves and construct meaning from our pain.In this conversation, Kate and Michael discuss: Why truth and trust are so important when it comes to finding meaning in our pain The difference between comfort and consolation  The limits of stoicism and hyper-futurism  What it means to be hopeful The importance of community through pain and suffering  Michael does not denigrate anyone's attempt for comfort, but asks us to look carefully at the consolation that lasts. He asks: What is consolation? And why do we all crave that practice of meaning-making?***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today we learned of another mass school shooting. Monday, March 27, 2023 six people were killed at school. Three children. Three adults. And the gun woman.  I am overwhelmed. I share a blessing from The Lives We Actually Have by Kate Bowler and Jessica Richie called For This Grief-stricken Day. I also talk about what is also true for each of us. Listen in...

Supermodel Paulina Porizkova has been in the public eye all her life. But it has been a rollercoaster of soaring successes and deep heartache. Grief and pain comes to us all, and in those moments, we need our shared humanity (and not our super-anythingness) to build a bridge back to others. In this tender conversation, Kate and Paulina discuss: How to show up to friends in unsolvable pain Why “what doesn't kill you will make you stronger” is just plain wrong Why the assumptions we make about one another are untrue  CW: Spicy language *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Supermodel Paulina Porizkova has been in the public eye all her life. But it has been a rollercoaster of soaring successes and deep heartache. Grief and pain comes to us all, and in those moments, we need our shared humanity (and not our super-anythingness) to build a bridge back to others.In this tender conversation, Kate and Paulina discuss: How to show up to friends in unsolvable pain Why “what doesn't kill you will make you stronger” is just plain wrong Why the assumptions we make about one another are untrue  CW: Spicy language***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

SHOW NOTES: Lent 5A | Psalm 130  Our texts this week are here  Our prayer this week: For When You Need a Little Hope, The Lives We Actually Have by Jessica Richie and Kate Bowler  We talked about Homeboy Industries and the work of Fr. Gregory Boyle. Megan mentioned his book The Whole Language, and both Megan & Alicia recommend Tattoos on the Heart.  Join us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/aplainaccount   For more about Brueggemann's categories for Psalms, check out Spirituality of the Psalms.  Browse the rest of our curated booklists! Purchasing through this affiliate link generates a small commission for us and is a great way to support the show https://bookshop.org/shop/aplainaccount   Other resources on our website: commentaries, discipleship, liturgics, music.

The Reverend Tom Long wrote the book on funerals. No, really. When grief threatens to swallow us whole, Tom reminds us of our place in a bigger story of hope and faith, of interdependence and the importance of community. He describes the necessity of ritual to pull us into a wider, truer story than the trite version our culture likes to tell. In this warm conversation (trust me! You will laugh!), Kate and Tom discuss:  What it means to be called into emotionally-expensive professions (jobs where you decide to really care!)  The importance of truth-telling at a funeral Seeing people through the prism of God's love for them (more specifically—through the lens of their baptism) Why people die at all and what happens with all the love we have for one another (hint: it's never, ever, ever lost) The importance of the rituals we create to walk people through death and dying No one likes to talk about funerals, but this one is a must-listen.  *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Reverend Tom Long wrote the book on funerals. No, really. When grief threatens to swallow us whole, Tom reminds us of our place in a bigger story of hope and faith, of interdependence and the importance of community. He describes the necessity of ritual to pull us into a wider, truer story than the trite version our culture likes to tell.In this warm conversation (trust me! You will laugh!), Kate and Tom discuss:  What it means to be called into emotionally-expensive professions (jobs where you decide to really care!)  The importance of truth-telling at a funeral Seeing people through the prism of God's love for them (more specifically—through the lens of their baptism) Why people die at all and what happens with all the love we have for one another (hint: it's never, ever, ever lost) The importance of the rituals we create to walk people through death and dying No one likes to talk about funerals, but this one is a must-listen. ***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Over thirty years ago, Elaine Pagels' young son and husband died within the same year. In this tender conversation, Kate and Elaine discuss surviving the aftermath of such devastation, the painful explanations religion often offers, and how we love and keep loving even after so much tragedy. Together, they discuss: The need for connection to others during grief Religion's often painful and punitive explanations for suffering (and why they aren't helpful or complete) Why parents often feel like they've “failed” when a child dies How suffering pulls us closer to mystery  This episode is for someone who has ever had the thought “haven't I suffered enough?” Elaine and Kate are trusted companions in a life that hasn't turned out like we thought it should. CW: death of a child, death of a spouse***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731A big thank you to Jed Meyers for contributing his beautiful poem to today's episode. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Over thirty years ago, Elaine Pagels' young son and husband died within the same year. In this tender conversation, Kate and Elaine discuss surviving the aftermath of such devastation, the painful explanations religion often offers, and how we love and keep loving even after so much tragedy.  Together, they discuss: The need for connection to others during grief Religion's often painful and punitive explanations for suffering (and why they aren't helpful or complete) Why parents often feel like they've “failed” when a child dies How suffering pulls us closer to mystery  This episode is for someone who has ever had the thought “haven't I suffered enough?” Elaine and Kate are trusted companions in a life that hasn't turned out like we thought it should.  CW: death of a child, death of a spouse *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 A big thank you to Jed Meyers for contributing his beautiful poem to today's episode. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every problem New York Times columnist Frank Bruni faced had a simple fix. Doctors offered reasonable solutions for reasonable problems. Preventative care guaranteed future health. That is, until he woke up one morning without vision in his eye. This experience forced him to rethink how much of life is in our control and how to live fully in the face of unfixable problems.In this conversation, Kate and Frank discuss:  Letting go of the idea that life is a series of choices and learning that there are things we can't fix How the lacquered lives we see on social media deny us the fuller picture of each other's problems Importance of finding the things that light up our lives and taking the hard stuff bird by bird, vine by vine.  ***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Every problem New York Times columnist Frank Bruni faced had a simple fix. Doctors offered reasonable solutions for reasonable problems. Preventative care guaranteed future health. That is, until he woke up one morning without vision in his eye. This experience forced him to rethink how much of life is in our control and how to live fully in the face of unfixable problems. In this conversation, Kate and Frank discuss:  Letting go of the idea that life is a series of choices and learning that there are things we can't fix How the lacquered lives we see on social media deny us the fuller picture of each other's problems Importance of finding the things that light up our lives and taking the hard stuff bird by bird, vine by vine.  *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time.  In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss:  How Beth's faith offered stability during a very unpredictable and unstable childhood  The complicated grief that occurs when family members cause deep, unforgivable harm What it means to be fully known (and why that feels better than anything else)  Beth's long-faithfulness despite experiencing rejection, pain, and hurt from her faith community   This was Beth's first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven't worked out like we thought they should.  CW: sexual abuse, mental illness *** Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here. Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time. In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss:  How Beth's faith offered stability during a very unpredictable and unstable childhood  The complicated grief that occurs when family members cause deep, unforgivable harm What it means to be fully known (and why that feels better than anything else)  Beth's long-faithfulness despite experiencing rejection, pain, and hurt from her faith community  This was Beth's first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven't worked out like we thought they should. CW: sexual abuse, mental illness***Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to SEASON TEN of the Everything Happens Podcast! I started this podcast as a way to create language and community around some of life's most painful moments. I was so overwhelmed by the question of how do we live in the after? After a diagnosis, after a death, after a divorce, after something that changes our lives or takes it apart.I had just been diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and I was only 35. I had a two year old at home with this giant lovey Disney eyes, and I had the job that I loved, and then suddenly, I had a picture of a future that was just never going to be. So I wanted to know, like, how do we do this? How do you find joy and hope and love even after life comes undone? And after years of treatment and years of uncertainty, I guess I realized somewhere along the way that this wasn't really a one and done kind of question. This is the sort of work that evolves over time as life continues to contract and expand and break our hearts and then put us back together all over again. And so thank you for being the people that I've had along the way. These are not, of course, the conversations anybody really wants to have, but we do, you and me and this gorgeous community here.We have so many great episodes coming to you for SEASON TEN. We're going to be talking to tender and wise and funny people about what they've discovered during their before and afters. People like Beth Moore on long faithfulness when life really doesn't work out the way you thought it did. Mary Louise Kelly on empty-nesting and rediscovering yourself after the kids leave. Rabbi Steve Leder on how tragedies teach us and how we can just see beauty somehow. Plus SO MANY MORE.New episodes coming your way every Tuesday this Spring. This episode also includes a conversation between Kate and her producer, Jessica Richie about their new book of blessings, The Lives We Actually Have.***THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releases TODAY). Learn more, here.We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started.Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to SEASON TEN of the Everything Happens Podcast! I started this podcast as a way to create language and community around some of life's most painful moments. I was so overwhelmed by the question of how do we live in the after? After a diagnosis, after a death, after a divorce, after something that changes our lives or takes it apart. I had just been diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and I was only 35. I had a two year old at home with this giant lovey Disney eyes, and I had the job that I loved, and then suddenly, I had a picture of a future that was just never going to be. So I wanted to know, like, how do we do this? How do you find joy and hope and love even after life comes undone? And after years of treatment and years of uncertainty, I guess I realized somewhere along the way that this wasn't really a one and done kind of question. This is the sort of work that evolves over time as life continues to contract and expand and break our hearts and then put us back together all over again. And so thank you for being the people that I've had along the way. These are not, of course, the conversations anybody really wants to have, but we do, you and me and this gorgeous community here. We have so many great episodes coming to you for SEASON TEN. We're going to be talking to tender and wise and funny people about what they've discovered during their before and afters. People like Beth Moore on long faithfulness when life really doesn't work out the way you thought it did. Mary Louise Kelly on empty-nesting and rediscovering yourself after the kids leave. Rabbi Steve Leder on how tragedies teach us and how we can just see beauty somehow. Plus SO MANY MORE. New episodes coming your way every Tuesday this Spring. This episode also includes a conversation between Kate and her producer, Jessica Richie about their new book of blessings, The Lives We Actually Have. *** THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releases TODAY). Learn more, here. We have free Lent guides for you to use by yourself, with a group, or with your church. Click here to get started. Leave us a voicemail and who knows? We might even be able to use your voice on the air: 919-322-8731 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jessica Richie is a producer and writer. She serves as the executive director of the Everything Happens Initiative at Duke University and the executive producer of the Everything Happens podcast, which hosts wise, funny, and tender conversations between Dr. Kate Bowler and guests about lives that don't always work out. Based on their work together, Kate and Jess co-wrote a book of spiritual reflections called, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish DEVOTIONALS FOR A LIFE OF IMPERFECTION and a book of blessings called THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 BLESSINGS FOR IMPERFECT DAYS. Jess received her M.Div. from Duke Divinity School and lives with her family in Wilmington, Delaware. 

Jessica Richie shares the story and practices behind “The Lives We Actually Have”, written with Kate Bowler. “The Lives We Actually Have” (Releasing February 14, 2023) is a collection of blessings for the struggles of our shared humanity, from the New York Times bestselling authors of “Good Enough”. A blessing for a painful day? A […]