Podcasts about James Baldwin

Award-winning narrator Ron Butler joins AudioFile's Michele Cobb to tell listeners about narrating Nicholas Boggs' stunning audiobook, BALDWIN, one of our picks for Best Biography & Memoir audiobooks of 2025. This comprehensive biography of James Baldwin—the first in over 30 years—is told through the lens of the great loves of his life, something that has never been explored before. Butler dives into what kind of research went into preparing for the narration, and what kind of tone and “music” he invited into performing the text.  Read AudioFile's review of the audiobook: Published by Macmillan Audio AudioFile's 2025 Best Biography & Memoir Audiobooks are: AWAKE written and read by Jen Hatmaker BALDWIN by Nicholas Boggs, read by Ron Butler BOAT BABY written and read by Vicky Nguyen MARK TWAIN by Ron Chernow, read by Jason Culp MEMORIAL DAYS written and read by Geraldine Brooks THE SPINACH KING by John Seabrook, read by Dion Graham Explore the full list of 2025 Best Audiobooks on our website . Support for our podcast comes from Dreamscape, an award-winning audiobook publisher with a catalog that includes authors L.J. Shen, Freida McFadden, and Katee Robert. Discover your next great listen at dreamscapepublishing.com.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week’s Nose — guest hosted by writer and journalist Lindsay Lee Wallace — looks at: PLUR1BUS is a new post-apocalyptic sci-fi thriller series created by Vince Gilligan. Apple TV describes its premise like this: “The most miserable person on Earth must save the world from happiness.” Rhea Seehorn stars as Carol, one of the few people on the planet who weren’t part of the “Joining,” an event that turned most of humanity into a — very polite — hive mind. And: Orwell: 2 + 2 = 5 is the new documentary from Raoul Peck. Peck’s 2017 film about James Baldwin, I Am Not Your Negro, was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. GUESTS: Shawn Murray: A stand-up comedian, writer, and the host of the Fantasy Filmballpodcast Mercy Quaye: Founder and president of The Narrative Project Bill Yousman: Professor of media studies at Sacred Heart University The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode! Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Geographies of Relation: Diasporas and Borderlands in the Americas (U Michigan Press, 2024) offers a new lens for examining diaspora and borderlands texts and performances that considers the inseparability of race, ethnicity, and gender in imagining and enacting social change. Theresa Delgadillo crosses interdisciplinary and canonical borders to investigate the interrelationships of African-descended Latinx and mestizx peoples through an analysis of Latin American, Latinx, and African American literature, film, and performance. Not only does Delgadillo offer a rare extended analysis of Black Latinidades in Chicanx literature and theory, but she also considers over a century's worth of literary, cinematic, and performative texts to support her argument about the significance of these cultural sites and overlaps. Chapters illuminate the significance of Toña La Negra in the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, reconsider feminist theorist Gloria Anzaldúa's work in revising exclusionary Latin American ideologies of mestizaje, delve into the racial and gender frameworks Sandra Cisneros attempts to rewrite, unpack encounters between African Americans and Black Puerto Ricans in texts by James Baldwin and Marta Moreno Vega, explore the African diaspora in colonial and contemporary Peru through Daniel Alarcón's literature and the documentary Soy Andina, and revisit the centrality of Black power in ending colonialism in Cuban narratives. Geographies of Relation demonstrates the long histories of networks and exchanges across the Americas as well as the interrelationships among Indigenous, Black, African American, mestizx, Chicanx, and Latinx peoples. It offers a compelling argument that geographies of relation are as significant as national frameworks in structuring cultural formation and change in this hemisphere. Theresa Delgadillo is a Vilas Distinguished Professor of English and Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she is also Director of the Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies Program. She is a founder and editor for the online publication Latinx Talk. Shodona Kettle is a PhD candidate at the Institute of the Americas, University College London. Website here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

Geographies of Relation: Diasporas and Borderlands in the Americas (U Michigan Press, 2024) offers a new lens for examining diaspora and borderlands texts and performances that considers the inseparability of race, ethnicity, and gender in imagining and enacting social change. Theresa Delgadillo crosses interdisciplinary and canonical borders to investigate the interrelationships of African-descended Latinx and mestizx peoples through an analysis of Latin American, Latinx, and African American literature, film, and performance. Not only does Delgadillo offer a rare extended analysis of Black Latinidades in Chicanx literature and theory, but she also considers over a century's worth of literary, cinematic, and performative texts to support her argument about the significance of these cultural sites and overlaps. Chapters illuminate the significance of Toña La Negra in the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, reconsider feminist theorist Gloria Anzaldúa's work in revising exclusionary Latin American ideologies of mestizaje, delve into the racial and gender frameworks Sandra Cisneros attempts to rewrite, unpack encounters between African Americans and Black Puerto Ricans in texts by James Baldwin and Marta Moreno Vega, explore the African diaspora in colonial and contemporary Peru through Daniel Alarcón's literature and the documentary Soy Andina, and revisit the centrality of Black power in ending colonialism in Cuban narratives. Geographies of Relation demonstrates the long histories of networks and exchanges across the Americas as well as the interrelationships among Indigenous, Black, African American, mestizx, Chicanx, and Latinx peoples. It offers a compelling argument that geographies of relation are as significant as national frameworks in structuring cultural formation and change in this hemisphere. Theresa Delgadillo is a Vilas Distinguished Professor of English and Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she is also Director of the Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies Program. She is a founder and editor for the online publication Latinx Talk. Shodona Kettle is a PhD candidate at the Institute of the Americas, University College London. Website here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latino-studies

Geographies of Relation: Diasporas and Borderlands in the Americas (U Michigan Press, 2024) offers a new lens for examining diaspora and borderlands texts and performances that considers the inseparability of race, ethnicity, and gender in imagining and enacting social change. Theresa Delgadillo crosses interdisciplinary and canonical borders to investigate the interrelationships of African-descended Latinx and mestizx peoples through an analysis of Latin American, Latinx, and African American literature, film, and performance. Not only does Delgadillo offer a rare extended analysis of Black Latinidades in Chicanx literature and theory, but she also considers over a century's worth of literary, cinematic, and performative texts to support her argument about the significance of these cultural sites and overlaps. Chapters illuminate the significance of Toña La Negra in the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, reconsider feminist theorist Gloria Anzaldúa's work in revising exclusionary Latin American ideologies of mestizaje, delve into the racial and gender frameworks Sandra Cisneros attempts to rewrite, unpack encounters between African Americans and Black Puerto Ricans in texts by James Baldwin and Marta Moreno Vega, explore the African diaspora in colonial and contemporary Peru through Daniel Alarcón's literature and the documentary Soy Andina, and revisit the centrality of Black power in ending colonialism in Cuban narratives. Geographies of Relation demonstrates the long histories of networks and exchanges across the Americas as well as the interrelationships among Indigenous, Black, African American, mestizx, Chicanx, and Latinx peoples. It offers a compelling argument that geographies of relation are as significant as national frameworks in structuring cultural formation and change in this hemisphere. Theresa Delgadillo is a Vilas Distinguished Professor of English and Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she is also Director of the Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies Program. She is a founder and editor for the online publication Latinx Talk. Shodona Kettle is a PhD candidate at the Institute of the Americas, University College London. Website here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Geographies of Relation: Diasporas and Borderlands in the Americas (U Michigan Press, 2024) offers a new lens for examining diaspora and borderlands texts and performances that considers the inseparability of race, ethnicity, and gender in imagining and enacting social change. Theresa Delgadillo crosses interdisciplinary and canonical borders to investigate the interrelationships of African-descended Latinx and mestizx peoples through an analysis of Latin American, Latinx, and African American literature, film, and performance. Not only does Delgadillo offer a rare extended analysis of Black Latinidades in Chicanx literature and theory, but she also considers over a century's worth of literary, cinematic, and performative texts to support her argument about the significance of these cultural sites and overlaps. Chapters illuminate the significance of Toña La Negra in the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, reconsider feminist theorist Gloria Anzaldúa's work in revising exclusionary Latin American ideologies of mestizaje, delve into the racial and gender frameworks Sandra Cisneros attempts to rewrite, unpack encounters between African Americans and Black Puerto Ricans in texts by James Baldwin and Marta Moreno Vega, explore the African diaspora in colonial and contemporary Peru through Daniel Alarcón's literature and the documentary Soy Andina, and revisit the centrality of Black power in ending colonialism in Cuban narratives. Geographies of Relation demonstrates the long histories of networks and exchanges across the Americas as well as the interrelationships among Indigenous, Black, African American, mestizx, Chicanx, and Latinx peoples. It offers a compelling argument that geographies of relation are as significant as national frameworks in structuring cultural formation and change in this hemisphere. Theresa Delgadillo is a Vilas Distinguished Professor of English and Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she is also Director of the Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies Program. She is a founder and editor for the online publication Latinx Talk. Shodona Kettle is a PhD candidate at the Institute of the Americas, University College London. Website here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latin-american-studies

Geographies of Relation: Diasporas and Borderlands in the Americas (U Michigan Press, 2024) offers a new lens for examining diaspora and borderlands texts and performances that considers the inseparability of race, ethnicity, and gender in imagining and enacting social change. Theresa Delgadillo crosses interdisciplinary and canonical borders to investigate the interrelationships of African-descended Latinx and mestizx peoples through an analysis of Latin American, Latinx, and African American literature, film, and performance. Not only does Delgadillo offer a rare extended analysis of Black Latinidades in Chicanx literature and theory, but she also considers over a century's worth of literary, cinematic, and performative texts to support her argument about the significance of these cultural sites and overlaps. Chapters illuminate the significance of Toña La Negra in the Golden Age of Mexican cinema, reconsider feminist theorist Gloria Anzaldúa's work in revising exclusionary Latin American ideologies of mestizaje, delve into the racial and gender frameworks Sandra Cisneros attempts to rewrite, unpack encounters between African Americans and Black Puerto Ricans in texts by James Baldwin and Marta Moreno Vega, explore the African diaspora in colonial and contemporary Peru through Daniel Alarcón's literature and the documentary Soy Andina, and revisit the centrality of Black power in ending colonialism in Cuban narratives. Geographies of Relation demonstrates the long histories of networks and exchanges across the Americas as well as the interrelationships among Indigenous, Black, African American, mestizx, Chicanx, and Latinx peoples. It offers a compelling argument that geographies of relation are as significant as national frameworks in structuring cultural formation and change in this hemisphere. Theresa Delgadillo is a Vilas Distinguished Professor of English and Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she is also Director of the Chicanx/e and Latinx/e Studies Program. She is a founder and editor for the online publication Latinx Talk. Shodona Kettle is a PhD candidate at the Institute of the Americas, University College London. Website here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/anthropology

Small Rain by Garth Greenwell is a haunting story of one man's emotional reckoning. Garth joins us to talk about bewilderment, memory, interiority, James Baldwin, home ownership, intimacy and more with host Miwa Messer.  This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.                     New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Small Rain by Garth Greenwell Nocturnes for the King of Naples by Edmund White Confessions by Saint Augustine Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin Another Country by James Baldwin  

You Deserve Flowers with Devon Blow In this episode, host Adina Oberman interviews Devon Blow, a dynamic artist and illustrator from Los Angeles who specializes in illustration, design, writing, and social justice advocacy. Devon discusses her debut book "You Deserve Flowers," a pocket-sized collection of affirmations and poetry that originated from a therapy assignment focused on self-affirmation. The conversation explores Devon's creative process, her passion for representing diversity and marginalized communities in her work, and her upcoming projects with Familius, including "Life's Best Bits" and a picture book. Throughout the discussion, Devon emphasizes how her art is deeply connected to social justice work and her desire to bring hope and encouragement to people from all walks of life. Episode Highlights 00:00:10: Adina Oberman introduces the Helping Families Be Happy Podcast and welcomes guest Devon Blow, describing her impressive background as an artist working with major clients like Netflix, Oprah's Book Club, and the United Nations. 00:01:42: Devon thanks Adina for having her on the podcast and the conversation begins. 00:01:44: Adina expresses excitement about discussing Devon's new book and their working relationship. 00:01:59: Devon introduces "You Deserve Flowers" as a pocket-sized book of affirmations and poetry designed to provide encouragement whenever readers need it. 00:02:27: Adina asks Devon to share the inspiration behind the book and her creative process. 00:02:37: Devon reveals the book originated from a therapy assignment where she was asked to write affirmations for herself as if speaking to others, since she found it easier to affirm others than herself. 00:03:26: Adina shares several affirming messages from the book, including "Loving yourself isn't arrogance, it's survival" and discusses the beautiful artwork. 00:04:16: Devon identifies the rain/puddles page as one of her favorites from the book. 00:04:19: Adina highlights Devon's artistic signature of including little hearts on characters' cheeks throughout the book. 00:05:14: Devon explains that people and diversity inspire her creative work, and she finds beauty in everyone's unique features and cultural backgrounds. 00:06:00: Adina asks Devon to elaborate on how her work connects to her passion for social justice. 00:06:18: Devon discusses how community and hope are central to her social justice work, citing influences like James Baldwin and bell Hooks, and emphasizing the importance of embracing differences. 00:07:28: Adina asks Devon to share information about her upcoming projects. 00:07:47: Devon announces her second book with Mamis titled "Life's Best Bits" featuring over 190 illustrations about simple joys, plus a picture book project and a middle-grade fiction book she's currently writing. 00:08:41: Adina expresses excitement about Devon's upcoming work and asks where listeners can find her online. 00:09:00: Devon directs listeners to her website and social media at @DevthePineapple across all platforms. 00:09:12: Adina thanks Devon for joining the podcast. 00:09:14: Adina concludes the episode by thanking Familius for their support and encouraging listeners to subscribe and leave reviews. Key Takeaways Self-affirmation can be challenging even for those who naturally affirm others, and therapeutic exercises like writing affirmations can be transformative creative outlets. Art can serve as a powerful tool for social justice advocacy by representing diverse communities and providing hope during difficult times. Small, accessible formats like pocket-sized books of affirmations can provide encouragement and support in everyday moments. Embracing and celebrating differences in people's backgrounds, cultures, and appearances is essential to moving forward as a society. Creative work that centers love, community, and inclusivity can have meaningful impact beyond aesthetic value. Finding inspiration in the beauty of everyday people and their unique features can fuel authentic and representative artistic expression. Quotable Moments "Loving yourself isn't arrogance, it's survival" - From Devon's book "You Deserve Flowers" "This rain won't stop you. The puddles remind you, you survived" - From Devon's book "You Deserve Flowers." "Trust your feelings, but don't forget to let the joy in" - From Devon's book "You Deserve Flowers." "I think if we can inspire each other and just be kind to one another, which sounds really cliche, but it's true" - Devon Blow on her approach to social justice work. "I think embracing all of our differences is what will push us forward" - Devon Blow on diversity and community. "I love affirming others, but I struggle with affirming myself" - Devon Blow on the origins of her book. "I think all of our unique features and things makes us really beautiful" - Devon Blow on her artistic inspiration.

Send us a textIn this mini Thanksgiving episode, I investigate what James Baldwin and the other James Baldwin have to say about the holiday. More information is at talkingaboutkids.com. Full-length Talking About Kids episodes return next week (December 1, 2025).

What does it feel like to be a young, urban, Jewish post-war migrant woman who grabs a camera and walks into the Australian desert, only to emerge 50 years later with an intimate archive of a civil rights movement? In this very special episode, Yves and Clare are joined by legendary octogenarian photographer Juno Gemes to discuss her lifelong pursuit of creativity, community, independence and social justice. hy did Juno follow in the footsteps of Richard Avendon and not James Baldwin? What role does photography play in the political and artistic pursuit of truth-telling? Can landscape be a portrait? And why is living in an archive both a privilege and a responsibility?

James Baldwin, el fuego del amor y la rabia Fue la conciencia de América y el profeta marica que el siglo XX necesitaba. En este episodio de Grandes Maricas de la Historia, nos adentramos en el alma en llamas de James Baldwin, el escritor que convirtió el dolor de ser negro y homosexual en una de las obras más incendiarias de la historia. Junto a Otto y Rata, viajamos desde las iglesias de Harlem, donde un joven Baldwin predicaba a un dios que no lo aceptaba, hasta los callejones de París, donde encontró la libertad para amar y escribir sin tapujos. Analizamos cómo navegó la doble condena del racismo y la homofobia, siendo a menudo rechazado tanto por el establishment blanco como por los movimientos de liberación negros que temían su sexualidad. Exploramos sus amores turbulentos, como el que inspiró la mítica novela El cuarto de Giovanni, y su radical negativa a ser encasillado en etiquetas como "gay", defendiendo que el amor es un campo de batalla demasiado vasto para cualquier definición. Este es el retrato de un testigo que se atrevió a decir que amar es peligroso, pero no amar es morir. Un episodio que reivindica a Baldwin como un pensador indispensable para entender que toda lucha por la libertad, o es para todos los cuerpos, o es una estafa. Y las músicas, como siempre, aquí: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6cydy7x5WAEUky4zJ2EixK?si=e14a82ab83854789

The father and mother of our country is Harriet Tubman. The teacher of our country is Edward Said and his neighbor Frida Kahlo and her neighbor James Baldwin. The father and mother of our country is the Earth and they were deported by agents of the monoculture, helplessly misguided men in masks who tear us apart. The father and mother of our country immediately begin healing the children ziptied in the hallways…. the ancestors rush in to guard us against plastic pixel nightmares. We remember that the Earth is our government, our culture, our economy…. Suddenly, we know power. Image is of Savitri D, of News from the Natural World, after howling at fossil bankers

James Baldwin's recent centennial birthday allowed us to discuss one of his most celebrated novels, Giovanni's Room. Andrew Limbong and B. A. Parker are joined by NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour's Glen Weldon, examining the story of three lovers, chasing connection, love, and acceptance in 1950s Paris. Special guest Garth Greenwell also drops by to share how Giovanni's Room made an impact on his work. Glen's Recommendation: ‘Florenzer' by Phil MelansonParker's Recommendation: ‘The Stranger' by Albert CamusAndrew's Recommendation: ‘The Sun Also Rises' by Ernest HemingwayTo listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookofthedayLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Nicholas Boggs's “Baldwin: A Love Story,” is many things at once. It's a comprehensive biography of James Baldwin. It's a nimble excavation of Baldwin's work, filled with astute literary analysis of his books and prose. And, most pressingly, it's an argument for a new critical framework to understand Baldwin through the lens of love. The biography is structured around Baldwin's relationships with a series of men — relationships that, as Boggs outlines, shaped Baldwin's life and writing in crucial ways. Boggs joins MJ Franklin on this week's episode to talk about his new book.Other works mentioned in this discussion:Zadie Smith's essay “Conscience and Consciousness: A Craft Talk for the People and the Person,” from her new collection “Dead and Alive”“James Baldwin: A Biography,” by David Leeming“Little Man, Little Man: A Story of Childhood,” by James Baldwin, illustrated by Yoran Cazac, edited by Nicholas Boggs and Jennifer DeVere Brody“Goodbye Days,” by Jeff Zentner“Virginia Woolf,” by Hermione Lee Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

In deze aflevering bespreekt Inge met Evelyn en Lotte over de Top400-aanpak, de juridische en menselijke gevolgen ervan, en het lange traject om de gemeente er voor ter verantwoording te roepen. Evelyn neemt ons mee in haar week internetten: die ging van James Baldwin naar Jennifer in paradise. Artikel en shownotes: https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/podcast/de-top400-problematisch-en-omstreden

In this exciting new episode of BG Ideas, we sit down with Dr. Clayton Rosati, Associate Professor of Media Studies at Bowling Green State University and Claire Cromly, an undergraduate student who took Dr. Rosati's course about media, place, and power through the works of James Baldwin. During this conversation, our guests navigate the construction of social environments, the values within them, and the importance of illuminating minority voices and experiences in the dominant narrative. Listen as they discuss their respective experiences of teaching and learning. For Claire, reading Baldwin in the classroom has encouraged her to think critically and to reframe the way she understands the world in which she lives. For Dr. Rosati, Baldwin is an avenue through which he can illustrate the racialization of spaces, using his work to act as a liaison that showcases the interconnectedness of spaces we don't generally think of as related. His goal is to empower minority voices and experiences in America through the amplification of them in classroom spaces and larger scholarly discussion. A transcript for this episode can be found here.

In this  episode of Dead Talk, the group connects with the spirits of Jeanne la Pucelle — Joan of Arc —and James Baldwin, two luminous souls who lived centuries apart yet carried the same divine paradox: Freedom is won through rebellion in grace. It's the loving rebellion of our own beliefs. True rebellion is not the fight against darkness, but the refusal to surrender our light to it. Baldwin calls forgiveness “the highest rebellion,” the act that ends the war within, while Joan reminds us that obedience to love, not fear, is what ignites genuine freedom. Together, they explore what it means to embody “rebellion as grace”: to live truthfully without the need for approval, to forgive as an act of liberation, and to follow divine guidance even when it defies expectation. They remind us that the voices of spirit never command — they reveal love — and that today's revolution is one of compassion, patience, and the courage to live our truth aloud. “You are not being called to die for your truth,” Joan says. “You are being asked to live it.” Schedule a call to learn about The Freedom Project - Click here To book a 55-minute Connect Call with Gary, click here    

Tickets are available for our 2026 upcoming dates in LA, Philly, Brooklyn, Austin, and more at www.drunkblackhistory.com! Hope to see ya'll on the road! On this month's episode, Brandon meets with "A Black Man Reading" founder Dr. Jerid P. Woods to discuss the life and legacy of James Baldwin. They break down some of the central themes in his work, helping communities grow through education, and why Baldwin's work continues to resonate with audiences. DBH Links:- https://www.instagram.com/officialdrunkblackhistory- https://www.drunkblackhistory.com/ - https://www.youtube.com/@drunkblackhistory- https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/16706941-dbh-logoGuest:Dr. Jerid P. WoodsA Black Man Reading Hosts:Brandon Collins"Drunk Black History" was recorded at Baldwin & Co. in New Orleans. Shout-out to their amazing staff and great coffee! "Drunk Black History" is a production of Casa de Collins LLC. 

Mary Lovell is a queer grassroots organizer, visual artist, and activist who has been fighting oil and gas infrastructure and for social justice for their adult life - living up in the Kitsap Penninsula they are working on their first book  and love working with people to build power in their communitiesWelcome to the Arise podcast. This is episode 12, conversations on Reality. And today we're touching on organizing and what does it mean to organize? How do we organize? And we talk to a seasoned organizer, Mary Lavelle. And so Mary is a queer, grassroots organizer, visual artist and activist who has been fighting oil and gas infrastructure and fighting for social justice in their adult life. Living in the Kitsap Peninsula. They're working on their first book and love working with people to build power in their communities. Join us. I hope you stay curious and we continue the dialogue.Danielle (00:02):Okay, Mary, it's so great to have you today. Just want to hear a little bit about who you are, where you come from, how did you land? I know I met you in Kitsap County. Are you originally from here? Yeah. Just take itMary (00:15):Away. Yeah. So my name is Mary Lovel. I use she or they pronouns and I live in Washington State in Kitsap County. And then I have been organizing, I met Danielle through organizing, but I've spent most of my life organizing against oil and gas pipelines. I grew up in Washington state and then I moved up to Canada where there was a major oil pipeline crossing through where I was living. And so that got me engaged in social justice movements. That's the Transmountain pipeline, which it was eventually built, but we delayed it by a decade through a ton of different organizing, combination of lawsuits and direct action and all sorts of different tactics. And so I got to try and learn a lot of different things through that. And then now I'm living in Washington state and do a lot of different social justice bits and bobs of organizing, but mostly I'm focused on stopping. There's a major gas build out in Texas and Louisiana, and so I've been working with communities down there on pressuring financiers behind those oil and gas pipelines and major gas export. But all that to say, it's also like everyone is getting attacked on all sides. So I see it as a very intersectional fight of so many communities are being impacted by ice and the rise of the police state becoming even more prolific and surveillance becoming more prolific and all the things. So I see it as one little niche in a much larger fight. Yeah,Yeah, totally. I think when I moved up to Canada, I was just finished high school, was moving up for college, had been going to some of the anti-war marches that were happening at the time, but was very much along for the ride, was like, oh, I'll go to big stuff. But it was more like if there was a student walkout or someone else was organizing people. And then when I moved up to Canada, I just saw the history of the nation state there in a totally different way. I started learning about colonialism and understanding that the land that I had moved to was unseated Tu Squamish and Musqueam land, and started learning also about how resource extraction and indigenous rights went hand in hand. I think in general, in the Pacific Northwest and Coast Salish territories, the presence of indigenous communities is really a lot more visible than other parts of North America because of the timelines of colonization.(03:29):But basically when I moved and had a fresh set of eyes, I was seeing the major marginalization of indigenous communities in Canada and the way that racism was showing up against indigenous communities there and just the racial demographics are really different in Canada. And so then I was just seeing the impacts of that in just a new way, and it was just frankly really startling. It's the sheer number of people that are forced to be houseless and the disproportionate impacts on especially indigenous communities in Canada, where in the US it's just different demographics of folks that are facing houselessness. And it made me realize that the racial context is so different place to place. But anyways, so all that to say is that I started learning about the combination there was the rise of the idle, no more movement was happening. And so people were doing a lot of really large marches and public demonstrations and hunger strikes and all these different things around it, indigenous rights in Canada and in bc there was a major pipeline that people were fighting too.(04:48):And that was the first time that I understood that my general concerns about climate and air and water were one in the same with racial justice. And I think that that really motivated me, but I also think I started learning about it from an academic standpoint and then I was like, this is incredibly dumb. It's like all these people are just writing about this. Why is not anyone doing anything about it? I was going to Simon Fraser University and there was all these people writing whole entire books, and I was like, that's amazing that there's this writing and study and knowledge, but also people are prioritizing this academic lens when it's so disconnected from people's lived realities. I was just like, what the fuck is going on? So then I got involved in organizing and there was already a really robust organizing community that I plugged into there, but I just helped with a lot of different art stuff or a lot of different mass mobilizations and trainings and stuff like that. But yeah, then I just stuck with it. I kept learning so many cool things and meeting so many interesting people that, yeah, it's just inspiring.Jenny (06:14):No, that's okay. I obviously feel free to get into as much or as little of your own personal story as you want to, but I was thinking we talk a lot about reality on here, and I'm hearing that there was introduction to your reality based on your education and your experience. And for me, I grew up in a very evangelical world where the rapture was going to happen anytime and I wasn't supposed to be concerned with ecological things because this world was going to end and a new one was going to come. And I'm just curious, and you can speak again as broadly or specifically if the things you were learning were a reality shift for you or if it just felt like it was more in alignment with how you'd experienced being in a body on a planet already.Mary (07:08):Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting question. I think. So I grew up between Renton and Issaquah, which is not, it was rural when I was growing up. Now it's become suburban sprawl, but I spent almost all of my summers just playing outside and very hermit ish in a very kind of farm valley vibe. But then I would go into the city for cool punk art shows or whatever. When you're a teenager and you're like, this is the hippest thing ever. I would be like, wow, Seattle. And so when I moved up to Vancouver, it was a very big culture shock for me because of it just being an urban environment too, even though I think I was seeing a lot of the racial impacts and all of the, but also a lot of just that class division that's visible in a different way in an urban environment because you just have more folks living on the streets rather than living in precarious places, more dispersed the way that you see in rural environments.(08:21):And so I think that that was a real physical shift for me where it was walking around and seeing the realities people were living in and the environment that I was living in. It's like many, many different people were living in trailers or buses or a lot of different, it wasn't like a wealthy suburban environment, it was a more just sprawling farm environment. But I do think that that moving in my body from being so much of my time outside and so much of my time in really all of the stimulation coming from the natural world to then going to an urban environment and seeing that the crowding of people and pushing people into these weird living situations I felt like was a big wake up call for me. But yeah, I mean my parents are sort of a mixed bag. I feel like my mom is very lefty, she is very spiritual, and so I was exposed to a lot of different face growing up.(09:33):She is been deep in studying Buddhism for most of her life, but then also was raised Catholic. So it was one of those things where my parents were like, you have to go to Catholic school because that's how you get morals, even though both of them rejected Catholicism in different ways and had a lot of different forms of abuse through those systems, but then they're like, you have to do this because we had to do it anyways. So all that to say is that I feel like I got exposed to a lot of different religious forms of thought and spirituality, but I didn't really take that too far into organizing world. But I wasn't really forced into a box the same way. It wasn't like I was fighting against the idea of rapture or something like that. I was more, I think my mom especially is very open-minded about religion.(10:30):And then my dad, I had a really hard time with me getting involved in activism because he just sees it as really high risk talk to me for after I did a blockade for a couple months or different things like that. Over the course of our relationship, he's now understands why I'm doing what I'm doing. He's learned a lot about climate and I think the way that this social movements can create change, he's been able to see that because of learning through the news and being more curious about it over time. But definitely that was more of the dynamic is a lot of you shouldn't do that because you should keep yourself safe and that won't create change. It's a lot of the, anyways,I imagine too getting involved, even how Jenny named, oh, I came from this space, and Mary, you came from this space. I came from a different space as well, just thinking. So you meet all these different kinds of people with all these different kinds of ideas about how things might work. And obviously there's just three of us here, and if we were to try to organize something, we would have three distinct perspectives with three distinct family origins and three distinct ways of coming at it. But when you talk about a grander scale, can you give any examples or what you've seen works and doesn't work in your own experience, and how do you personally navigate different personalities, maybe even different motivations for getting something done? Yeah,Mary (12:30):Yeah. I think that's one of the things that's constantly intention, I feel like in all social movements is some people believe, oh, you should run for mayor in order to create the city environment that you want. Or some people are like, oh, if only we did lawsuits. Why don't we just sue the bastards? We can win that way. And then the other people are like, why spend the money and the time running for these institutions that are set up to create harm? And we should just blockade them and shift them through enough pressure, which is sort of where I fall in the political scheme I guess. But to me, it's really valuable to have a mix where I'm like, okay, when you have both inside and outside negotiation and pressure, I feel like that's what can create the most change because basically whoever your target is then understands your demands.(13:35):And so if you aren't actually clearly making your demands seen and heard and understood, then all the outside pressure in the world, they'll just dismiss you as being weird wing nuts. So I think that's where I fall is that you have to have both and that those will always be in disagreement because anyone doing inside negotiation with any kind of company or government is always going to be awkwardly in the middle between your outside pressure and what the target demand is. And so they'll always be trying to be wishy-washy and water down your demands or water down the, yeah. So anyways, all that to say is so I feel like there's a real range there, and I find myself in the most disagreements with the folks that are doing inside negotiations unless they're actually accountable to the communities. I think that my main thing that I've seen over the years as people that are doing negotiations with either corporations or with the government often wind up not including the most directly impacted voices and shooing them out of the room or not actually being willing to cede power, agreeing to terms that are just not actually what the folks on the ground want and celebrating really small victories.(15:06):So yeah, I don't know. That's where a lot of the tension is, I think. But I really just believe in the power of direct action and arts and shifting culture. I feel like the most effective things that I've seen is honestly spaghetti on the wall strategy where you just try everything. You don't actually know what's going to move these billionaires.(15:32):They have huge budgets and huge strategies, but it's also if you can create, bring enough people with enough diverse skill sets into the room and then empower them to use their skillsets and cause chaos for whoever the target is, where it's like they are stressed out by your existence, then they wind up seeding to your demands because they're just like, we need this problem to go away. So I'm like, how do we become a problem that's really hard to ignore? It's basically my main strategy, which sounds silly. A lot of people hate it when I answer this way too. So at work or in other places, people think that I should have a sharper strategy and I'm like, okay, but actually does anyone know the answer to this question? No, let's just keep rolling anyways. But I do really going after the financiers or SubT targets too.(16:34):That's one of the things that just because sometimes it's like, okay, if you're going to go after Geo Corp or Geo Group, I mean, or one of the other major freaking giant weapons manufacturers or whatever, it just fully goes against their business, and so they aren't going to blink even at a lot of the campaigns, they will get startled by it versus the people that are the next layer below them that are pillars of support in the community, they'll waffle like, oh, I don't want to actually be associated with all those war crimes or things like that. So I like sub targets, but those can also be weird distractions too, depending on what it is. So yeah, really long. IDanielle (17:24):Dunno how you felt, Jenny, but I feel all those tensions around organizing that you just said, I felt myself go like this as you went through it because you didn't. Exactly. I mean nothing. I agree it takes a broad strategy. I think I agree with you on that, but sitting in the room with people with broad perspectives and that disagree is so freaking uncomfortable. It's so much just to soothe myself in that environment and then how to know to balance that conversation when those people don't even really like each other maybe.Mary (17:57):Oh yeah. And you're just trying to avoid having people get in an actual fight. Some of the organizing against the banger base, for instance, I find really inspiring because of them having ex submarine captains and I'm like, okay, I'm afraid of talking to folks that have this intense military perspective, but then when they walk away from their jobs and actually want to help a movement, then you're like, okay, we have to organize across difference. But it's also to what end, it's like are you going to pull the folks that are coming from really diverse perspectives further left through your organizing or are you just trying to accomplish a goal with them to shift one major entity or I dunno. But yeah, it's very stressful. I feel like trying to avoid getting people in a fight is also a role myself or trying to avoid getting invites myself.Jenny (19:09):That was part of what I was wondering is if you've over time found that there are certain practices or I hate this word protocols or ways of engaging folks, that feels like intentional chaos and how do you kind of steward that chaos rather than it just erupting in a million different places or maybe that is part of the process even. But just curious how you've found that kind ofMary (19:39):Yeah, I love doing calendaring with people so that people can see one another's work and see the value of both inside and outside pressure and actually map it out together so that they aren't feeling overwhelmed by the prospect of one sort of train of thought leading. Do you know what I mean? Where it's like if people see all of this DC based blobbing happening, that's very much less so during the current administration, but for example, then they might be frustrated and feel like, where is our pressure campaign or where is our movement building work versus if you actually just map out those moments together and then see how they can be in concert. I feel like that's my real, and it's a bit harder to do with lawsuit stuff because it's just so much not up to social movements about when that happens because the courts are just long ass processes that are just five years later they announced something and you're like, what?(20:53):But for the things that you can pace internally, I feel like that is a big part of it. And I find that when people are working together in coalition, there's a lot of communities that I work with that don't get along, but they navigate even actively disliking each other in order to share space, in order to build a stronger coalition. And so that's to me is really inspiring. And sometimes that will blow up and become a frustrating source of drama where it's like you have two frontline leaders that are coming from a very different social movement analysis if one is coming from economic justice and is coming from the working class white former oil worker line of thinking. And then you have a community organizer that's been grown up in the civil rights movement and is coming from a black feminism and is a black organizer with a big family. Some of those tensions will brew up where it's like, well, I've organized 200 oil workers and then you've organized a whole big family, and at the end of the day, a lot of the former oil workers are Trumpers and then a lot of the black fam is we have generations of beef with y'all.(22:25):We have real lived history of you actually sorting our social progress. So then you wind up in this coalition dynamic where you're like, oh fuck. But it's also if they both give each other space to organize and see when you're organizing a march or something like that, even having contingent of people coming or things like that, that can be really powerful. And I feel like that's the challenge and the beauty of the moment that we're in where you're like you have extreme social chaos in so many different levels and even people on the right are feeling it.Danielle (23:12):Yeah, I agree. I kind of wonder what you would say to this current moment and the coalition, well, the people affected is broadening, and so I think the opportunity for the Coalition for Change is broadening and how do we do that? How do we work? Exactly. I think you pinned it. You have the oil person versus this other kind of family, but I feel that, and I see that especially around snap benefits or food, it's really hard when you're at the government level, it's easy to say, well, those people don't deserve that dah, dah, dah, right? But then you're in your own community and you ask anybody, Hey, let's get some food for a kid. They're like, yeah, almost no one wants to say no to that. So I don't know, what are you kind of hearing? What are you feeling as I say that?Mary (24:11):Yeah, I definitely feel like we're in a moment of great social upheaval where I feel like the class analysis that people have is really growing when have people actually outright called the government fascist and an oligarchy for years that was just a very niche group of lefties saying that. And then now we have a broad swath of people actually explicitly calling out the classism and the fascism that we're seeing rising. And you're seeing a lot of people that are really just wanting to support their communities because they're feeling the impacts of cost of living and feeling the impacts of all these social programs being cut. And also I think having a lot more visibility into the violence of the police state too. And I think, but yeah, it's hard to know exactly what to do with all that momentum. It feels like there's a huge amount of momentum that's possible right now.(25:24):And there's also not a lot of really solid places for people to pour their energy into of multiracial coalitions with a specific demand set that can shift something, whether it be at the state level or city level or federal level. It feels like there's a lot of dispersed energy and you have these mass mobilizations, but then that I feel excited about the prospect of actually bringing people together across difference. I feel like it really is. A lot of people are really demystified so many people going out to protests. My stepmom started going out to a lot of the no kings protests when she hasn't been to any protest over the whole course of her life. And so it's like people being newly activated and feeling a sense of community in the resistance to the state, and that's just really inspiring. You can't take that moment back away from people when they've actually gone out to a protest.(26:36):Then when they see protests, they know what it feels like to be there. But yeah, I feel like I'm not really sure honestly what to do with all of the energy. And I think I also have been, and I know a lot of other organizers are in this space of grieving and reflecting and trying to get by and they aren't necessarily stepping up into a, I have a strategy, please follow me role that could be really helpful for mentorship for people. And instead it feels like there's a bit of a vacuum, but that's also me calling from my living room in Kitsap County. I don't have a sense of what's going on in urban environments really or other places. There are some really cool things going on in Seattle for people that are organizing around the city's funding of Tesla or building coalitions that are both around defunding the police and also implementing climate demands or things like that. And then I also feel like I'm like, people are celebrating that Dick Cheney died. Fuck yes. I'm like, people are a lot more just out there with being honest about how they feel about war criminals and then you have that major win in New York and yeah, there's some little beacons of hope. Yeah. What do you all think?Jenny (28:16):I just find myself really appreciating the word coalition. I think a lot of times I use the word collective, and I think it was our dear friend Rebecca a couple of weeks ago was like, what do you mean by collective? What are you saying by that? And I was struggling to figure that out, and I think coalition feels a lot more honest. It feels like it has space for the diversity and the tensions and the conflicts within trying to perhaps pursue a similar goal. And so I just find myself really appreciating that language. And I was thinking about several years ago I did an embodied social justice certificate and one of the teachers was talking about white supremacy and is a professor in a university. I was like, I'm aware of representing white supremacy in a university and speaking against it, and I'm a really big believer in termites, and I just loved that idea of I myself, I think it's perhaps because I think I am neurodivergent and I don't do well in any type of system, and so I consider myself as one of those that will be on the outside doing things and I've grown my appreciation for those that have the brains or stamina or whatever is required to be one of those people that works on it from the inside.(29:53):So those are some of my thoughts. What about you, Danielle?Danielle (30:03):I think a lot about how we move where it feels like this, Mary, you're talking about people are just quiet and I know I spent weeks just basically being with my family at home and the food thing came up and I've been motivated for that again, and I also just find myself wanting to be at home like cocoon. I've been out to some of the marches and stuff, said hi to people or did different things when I have energy, but they're like short bursts and I don't feel like I have a very clear direction myself on what is the long-term action, except I was telling friends recently art and food, if I can help people make art and we can eat together, that feels good to me right now. And those are the only two things that have really resonated enough for me to have creative energy, and maybe that's something to the exhaustion you're speaking about and I don't know, I mean Mary A. Little bit, and I know Jenny knows, I spent a group of us spent years trying to advocate for English language learners here at North and in a nanosecond, Trump comes along and just Fs it all, Fs up the law, violates the law, violates funding all of this stuff in a nanosecond, and you're like, well, what do you do about that?(31:41):It doesn't mean you stop organizing at the local level, but there is something of a punch to the gut about it.Mary (31:48):Oh yeah, no, people are just getting punched in the gut all over the place and then you're expected to just keep on rolling and moving and you're like, alright, well I need time to process. But then it feels like you can just be stuck in this pattern of just processing because they just keep throwing more and more shit at you and you're like, ah, let us hide and heal for a little bit, and then you're like, wait, that's not what I'm supposed to be doing right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's intense. And yeah, I feel that the sense of need for art and food is a great call. Those things are restorative too, where you're like, okay, how can I actually create a space that feels healthy and generative when so much of that's getting taken away? I also speaking to your somatic stuff, Jenny, I recently started doing yoga and stretching stuff again after just years of not because I was like, oh, I have all this shit all locked up in my body and I'm not even able to process when I'm all locked up. Wild. Yeah.Danielle (33:04):Yeah. I fell in a hole almost two weeks ago, a literal concrete hole, and I think the hole was meant for my husband Luis. He actually has the worst luck than me. I don't usually do that shit meant I was walking beside him, I was walking beside of him. He is like, you disappeared. I was like, it's because I stepped in and I was in the moment. My body was like, oh, just roll. And then I went to roll and I was like, well, I should put my hand out. I think it's concrete. So I sprained my right ankle, I sprained my right hand, I smashed my knees on the concrete. They're finally feeling better, but that's how I feel when you talk about all of this. I felt like the literal both sides of my body and I told a friend at the gym is like, I don't think I can be mortal combat because when my knees hurt, it's really hard for me to do anything. So if I go into any, I'm conscripted or anything happens to me, I need to wear knee pads.Jenny (34:48):Yeah. I literally Googled today what does it mean if you just keep craving cinnamon? And Google was like, you probably need sweets, which means you're probably very stressed. I was like, oh, yeah. It's just interesting to me all the ways that our bodies speak to us, whether it's through that tension or our cravings, it's like how do we hold that tension of the fact that we are animal bodies that have very real needs and the needs of our communities, of our coalitions are exceeding what it feels like we have individual capacity for, which I think is part of the point. It's like let's make everything so unbelievably shitty that people have a hard time just even keeping up. And so it feels at times difficult to tend to my body, and I'm trying to remember, I have to tend to my body in order to keep the longevity that is necessary for this fight, this reconstruction that's going to take probably longer than my life will be around, and so how do I keep just playing my part in it while I'm here?Mary (36:10):Yeah. That's very wise, Jenny. I feel like the thing that I've been thinking about a lot as winter settles in is that I've been like, right, okay, trees lose their leaves and just go dormant. It's okay for me to just go dormant and that doesn't mean that I'm dead. I think that's been something that I've been thinking about too, where it's like, yeah, it's frustrating to see the urgency of this time and know that you're supposed to be rising to the occasion and then also be in your dormancy or winter, but I do feel like there is something to that, the nurturing of the roots that happens when plants aren't focused on growing upwards. I think that that's also one of the things that I've been thinking a lot about in organizing, especially for some of the folks that are wanting to organize but aren't sure a lot of the blockade tactics that they were interested in pursuing now feel just off the table for the amount of criminalization or problems that they would face for it. So then it's like, okay, but how do we go back and nurture our roots to be stronger in the long run and not just disappear into the ether too?Danielle (37:31):I do feel that, especially being in Washington, I feel like this is the hibernation zone. It's when my body feels cozy at night and I don't want to be out, and it means I want to just be with my family more for me, and I've just given myself permission for that for weeks now because it's really what I wanted to do and I could tell my kids craved it too, and my husband and I just could tell they needed it, and so I was surprised I needed it too. I like to be out and I like to be with people, but I agree, Mary, I think we get caught up in trying to grow out that we forget that we do need to really take care of our bodies. And I know you were saying that too, Jenny. I mean, Jenny Jenny's the one that got me into somatic therapy pretty much, so if I roll out of this telephone booth, you can blame Jenny. That's great.Mary (38:39):That's perfect. Yeah, somatics are real. Oh, the cinnamon thing, because cinnamon is used to regulate your blood sugar. I don't know if you realize that a lot of people that have diabetes or insulin resistant stuff, it's like cinnamon helps see your body with sugar regulation, so that's probably why Google was telling you that too.Jenny (39:04):That is really interesting. I do have to say it was one of those things, I got to Vermont and got maple syrup and I was like, I don't think I've ever actually tasted maple syrup before, so now I feel like I've just been drinking it all day. So good. Wait,Mary (39:29):That's amazing. Also, it's no coincidence that those are the fall flavors, right? Like maple and cinnamon and all the Totally, yeah. Cool.Danielle (39:42):So Mary, what wisdom would you give to folks at whatever stage they're in organizing right now? If you could say, Hey, this is something I didn't know even last week, but I know now. Is there something you'd want to impart or give away?Mary (39:59):I think the main thing is really just to use your own skills. Don't feel like you have to follow along with whatever structure someone is giving you for organizing. It's like if you're an artist, use that. If you're a writer, use that. If you make film, use that, don't pigeonhole yourself into that. You have to be a letter writer because that's the only organized thing around you. I think that's the main thing that I always feel like is really exciting to me is people, if you're a coder, there's definitely activists that need help with websites or if you're an accountant, there are so many organizations that are ready to just get audited and then get erased from this world and they desperately need you. I feel like there's a lot of the things that I feel like when you're getting involved in social movements. The other thing that I want to say right now is that people have power.(40:55):It's like, yes, we're talking about falling in holes and being fucking exhausted, but also even in the midst of this, a community down in Corpus Christi just won a major fight against a desalination plant where they were planning on taking a bunch of water out of their local bay and then removing the salt from it in order to then use the water for the oil and gas industry. And that community won a campaign through city level organizing, which is just major because basically they have been in a multi-year intense drought, and so their water supply is really, really critical for the whole community around them. And so the fact that they won against this desal plant is just going to be really important for decades to come, and that was one under the Trump administration. They were able to win it because it was a city level fight.(42:05):Also, the De Express pipeline got canceled down in Texas and Louisiana, which is a major pipeline expansion that was going to feed basically be a feeder pipeline to a whole pipeline system in Mexico and LNG export there. There's like, and that was just two weeks ago maybe, but it feels like there's hardly any news about it because people are so focused on fighting a lot of these larger fights, but I just feel like it's possible to win still, and people are very much feeling, obviously we aren't going to win a lot of major things under fascism, but it's also still possible to create change at a local level and not the state can't take everything from us. They're trying to, and also it's a fucking gigantic country, so thinking about them trying to manage all of us is just actually impossible for them to do it. They're having to offer, yes, the sheer number of people that are working for ICE is horrific, and also they're offering $50,000 signing bonuses because no one actually wants to work for ice.(43:26):They're desperately recruiting, and it's like they're causing all of this economic imbalance and uncertainty and chaos in order to create a military state. They're taking away the SNAP benefits so that people are hungry enough and desperate enough to need to steal food so that they can criminalize people, so that they can build more jails so that they can hire more police. They're doing all of these things strategically, but also they can't actually stop all of the different social movement organizers or all of the communities that are coming together because it's just too big of a region that they're trying to govern. So I feel like that's important to recognize all of the ways that we can win little bits and bobs, and it doesn't feel like, it's not like this moment feels good, but it also doesn't, people I think, are letting themselves believe what the government is telling them that they can't resist and that they can't win. And so it's just to me important to add a little bit more nuance of that. What the government's doing is strategic and also we can also still win things and that, I don't know, it's like we outnumber them, but yeah, that's my pep talk, pep Ted talk.Mary (45:18):And just the number of Canadians that texted me being like, mom, Donny, they're just like, everyone is seeing that it's, having the first Muslim be in a major political leadership role in New York is just fucking awesome, wild, and I'm also skeptical of all levels of government, but I do feel like that's just an amazing win for the people. Also, Trump trying to get in with an endorsement as if that would help. It's hilarious. Honestly,Mary (46:41):Yeah. I also feel like the snap benefits thing is really going to be, it reminds me of that quote, they tried to bury us, but we were seeds quote where I'm just like, oh, this is going to actually bite you so hard. You're now creating an entire generation of people that's discontent with the government, which I'm like, okay, maybe this is going to have a real negative impact on children that are going hungry. And also it's like to remember that they're spending billions on weapons instead of feeding people. That is so radicalizing for so many people that I just am like, man, I hope this bites them in the long term. I just am like, it's strategic for them for trying to get people into prisons and terrible things like that, but it's also just woefully unstrategic when you think about it long term where you're like, okay, have whole families just hating you.Jenny (47:57):It makes me think of James Baldwin saying not everything that's faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it's faced. And I feel like so many of these things are forcing folks who have had privilege to deny the class wars and the oligarchy and all of these things that have been here forever, but now that it's primarily affecting white bodies, it's actually forcing some of those white bodies to confront how we've gotten here in the first place. And that gives me a sense of hope.Mary (48:48):Oh, great. Thank you so much for having me. It was so nice to talk to y'all. I hope that you have a really good rest of your day, and yeah, really appreciate you hosting these important convos. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

durée : 00:31:44 - Les Nuits de France Culture - par : Mathilde Wagman - En 1981, un jeune homme noir est déclaré coupable du meurtre de 28 enfants à Atlanta, alors que les preuves contre lui sont minces. James Baldwin écrit un livre sur cette affaire ; il y questionne la place des Noirs dans le pays. En 1985, il était l'invité d'Éliane Contini pour parler de ce livre. - réalisation : Virginie Mourthé - invités : James Baldwin Écrivain

durée : 03:28:40 - Les Nuits de France Culture - par : Albane Penaranda, Mathias Le Gargasson, Antoine Dhulster - Par Jean Daive - Avec Arman (artiste), Claude Fournet (conservateur de musée, directeur des musées de Nice de 1975 à 1997, poète), Roger Vergé (cuisinier, directeur du Moulin de Mougins de de 1969 à 2003), Corice Arman (épouse d'Arman), Yves Arman (fils d'Arman), "Capitaine Nemo" (père d'Arman), Édith Boissonnas (mécène, poétesse et critique littéraire) et Charles Boissonnas (son mari), William Rubin (historien d'art, essayiste et conservateur de musée), James Baldwin (écrivain), Sacha Sosno (sculpteur), Jacques Martinez (peintre et ami de Arman), Jean-Louis Martinoty (metteur en scène et écrivain), Pierre Restany (historien de l'art et critique d'art, créateur du terme nouveau réalisme), Niki de Saint Phalle (artiste) et Ben (artiste) - Réalisation Jean Fredericks - réalisation : Rafik Zénine, Vincent Abouchar, Emily Vallat

Christine Valters Paintner is joined by author Claudia Love Mair for a series of video conversations. Every other month they take up a new book by or about a voice of color. The community is invited to purchase and read the books in advance and participate actively in this journey of deepening, discovery, and transformation. This month they sat down with Jamie McGhee about her book co-authored with Adam Hollowell You Mean It or You Don't: James Baldwin's Radical Challenge. After a speech at UMass Amherst on February 28, 1984, James Baldwin was asked by a student: “You said that the liberal façade and being a liberal is not enough. Well, what is? What is necessary?” Baldwin responded, “Commitment. That is what is necessary. You mean it or you don't.” Taking up that challenge and drawing from Baldwin's fiction, nonfiction, poetry, and interviews, You Mean It or You Don't will spur today's progressives from conviction to action. It is not enough, authors Hollowell and McGhee urge us, to hold progressive views on racial justice, LGBTQ+ identity, and economic inequality. True and lasting change demands a response to Baldwin's radical challenge for moral commitment. Called to move from dreams of justice to living it out in communities, churches, and neighborhoods, we can show that we truly mean it. Welcome to life with James Baldwin. It is raw and challenging, inspired and embodied, passionate and fully awake. AbbeyoftheArts.com/lift-every-voice/you-mean-it-or-you-dont/

Paris has always been on the mind of Eugene Crowley since his hometown, St. Joseph, Missouri, was founded by a French fur-trader, Joseph Robidoux.  For Gene, anything French reminded him of Paris. Before the end of his first decade in St. Joe, Gene “saw” Paris as his father drove down the parkway entrance, flanked on both sides with trees and shrubs, to Krug Park.    Gene announced to himself, “This is Paris.”  In his first trip to Paris four decades later, Gene became dazzled by the art in the Louvre and experienced a light show that he was the only witness.  This regeneration of the spirit in the Louvre keeps Gene's mind on Paris.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.We are proud to announce the we have launched TWATNews.com, launched in August 2025.TWATNews.com is an independent online news platform dedicated to uncovering the truth about Donald Trump and his ongoing influence in politics, business, and society. Unlike mainstream outlets that often sanitize, soften, or ignore stories that challenge Trump and his allies, TWATNews digs deeper to deliver hard-hitting articles, investigative features, and sharp commentary that mainstream media won't touch.These are stories and articles that you will not read anywhere else.Our mission is simple: to expose corruption, lies, and authoritarian tendencies while giving voice to the perspectives and evidence that are often marginalized or buried by corporate-controlled media

The scholar Nicholas Boggs has a new perspective on James Baldwin. The new biography Baldwin: A Love Story considers how the writer and Civil Rights leader's lovers might've shaped him. In today's conversation with NPR's Michel Martin, Boggs argues Baldwin provided a dynamic model for how we relate to other people – both in platonic and romantic relationships.To listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookofthedayLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile contributor Kendra Winchester to Behind the Mic this week to discuss one memoir and two biographies which center three different writing lives: A deaf, mixed-race writer finding his voice in THE QUIET EAR by Raymond Antrobus, read by the author; a cultural biography of Octavia Butler, the groundbreaking science fiction and fantasy writer in POSITIVE OBSESSION by Susana M. Morris, read by Karen Murray; and an expansive biography of James Baldwin told through the lens of friendship and love in BALDWIN by Nicholas Boggs, read by Ron Butler. Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  THE QUIET EAR: Published by Random House Audio POSITIVE OBSESSION: Published by Harper Audio BALDWIN: Published by Macmillan Audio Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website Support for our podcast comes from Dreamscape, the publisher of The Intruder by bestselling author Freida McFadden. The Intruder is a deadly tale of survival that explores how far one girl will go to save herself. — on-sale 10/7. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the first major biography of Baldwin in more than a decade, James Baldwin: Living in Fire (Pluto Press, 2019), Bill V. Mullen celebrates the personal and political life of the great African-American writer who changed the face of Western politics and culture. As a lifelong anti-imperialist, black queer advocate, and feminist, Baldwin (1924-1987) was a passionate chronicler of the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, the U.S. war against Vietnam, Palestinian liberation struggle, and the rise of LGBTQ rights. Mullen explores how Baldwin's life and work channel the long history of African-American freedom struggles, and explains how Baldwin both predicted and has become a symbol of the global Black Lives Matter movement. Bill V. Mullen is Professor of English and American Studies at Purdue University. His specializations are American Literature and Studies, African American Studies, Cultural Studies, Working-Class Studies, Critical Race Theory and Marxist Theory. Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube Channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

In the first major biography of Baldwin in more than a decade, James Baldwin: Living in Fire (Pluto Press, 2019), Bill V. Mullen celebrates the personal and political life of the great African-American writer who changed the face of Western politics and culture. As a lifelong anti-imperialist, black queer advocate, and feminist, Baldwin (1924-1987) was a passionate chronicler of the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, the U.S. war against Vietnam, Palestinian liberation struggle, and the rise of LGBTQ rights. Mullen explores how Baldwin's life and work channel the long history of African-American freedom struggles, and explains how Baldwin both predicted and has become a symbol of the global Black Lives Matter movement. Bill V. Mullen is Professor of English and American Studies at Purdue University. His specializations are American Literature and Studies, African American Studies, Cultural Studies, Working-Class Studies, Critical Race Theory and Marxist Theory. Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube Channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In the first major biography of Baldwin in more than a decade, James Baldwin: Living in Fire (Pluto Press, 2019), Bill V. Mullen celebrates the personal and political life of the great African-American writer who changed the face of Western politics and culture. As a lifelong anti-imperialist, black queer advocate, and feminist, Baldwin (1924-1987) was a passionate chronicler of the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, the U.S. war against Vietnam, Palestinian liberation struggle, and the rise of LGBTQ rights. Mullen explores how Baldwin's life and work channel the long history of African-American freedom struggles, and explains how Baldwin both predicted and has become a symbol of the global Black Lives Matter movement. Bill V. Mullen is Professor of English and American Studies at Purdue University. His specializations are American Literature and Studies, African American Studies, Cultural Studies, Working-Class Studies, Critical Race Theory and Marxist Theory. Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube Channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

In the first major biography of Baldwin in more than a decade, James Baldwin: Living in Fire (Pluto Press, 2019), Bill V. Mullen celebrates the personal and political life of the great African-American writer who changed the face of Western politics and culture. As a lifelong anti-imperialist, black queer advocate, and feminist, Baldwin (1924-1987) was a passionate chronicler of the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, the U.S. war against Vietnam, Palestinian liberation struggle, and the rise of LGBTQ rights. Mullen explores how Baldwin's life and work channel the long history of African-American freedom struggles, and explains how Baldwin both predicted and has become a symbol of the global Black Lives Matter movement. Bill V. Mullen is Professor of English and American Studies at Purdue University. His specializations are American Literature and Studies, African American Studies, Cultural Studies, Working-Class Studies, Critical Race Theory and Marxist Theory. Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube Channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/biography

In the first major biography of Baldwin in more than a decade, James Baldwin: Living in Fire (Pluto Press, 2019), Bill V. Mullen celebrates the personal and political life of the great African-American writer who changed the face of Western politics and culture. As a lifelong anti-imperialist, black queer advocate, and feminist, Baldwin (1924-1987) was a passionate chronicler of the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, the U.S. war against Vietnam, Palestinian liberation struggle, and the rise of LGBTQ rights. Mullen explores how Baldwin's life and work channel the long history of African-American freedom struggles, and explains how Baldwin both predicted and has become a symbol of the global Black Lives Matter movement. Bill V. Mullen is Professor of English and American Studies at Purdue University. His specializations are American Literature and Studies, African American Studies, Cultural Studies, Working-Class Studies, Critical Race Theory and Marxist Theory. Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube Channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/lgbtq-studies

Ben Fountain is far more than just the author of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk, which won RTB hearts and minds (and the National Book Award) long before it became a weird Ang Lee movie. Back in 2020's lockdown, RTB asked Fountain what was consoling and engaging him. American novels, especially those about Americans abroad (Joan Didion. say) have always done something special for him. Marilynne Robinson's and James Baldwin's work make us confront the reality that's happening around us all the time, “a freaking massacre.” He carried the the (fictional but genuine) facts of Baldwin's If Beale Street Could Talk in his head for forty years. Allen Tate, Fugitive poet (and author most famously of the tricky post-Eliotic 1928 “Ode to the Confederate Dead“) Joan Didion, The Last Thing He Wanted (1996; “a masterpiece of tone and mood and character and profound interiority”; the movie, not so much) Joan Didion, Democracy (1984; she goes “straight after the heart of that mystery, what is America?“) Marilynne Robinson. Listeners, do you prefer her incisive nonfiction (“Poetry of Puritanism“) or the deep, torqued interiority of her first novel, Housekeeping ? Zadie Smith on the amazing, terrifying Americanness of Kara Walker Kara Walker's “A Subtlety” (also referenced in our Silvia Bottinelli episode on food art!) James Baldwin, A Letter to My Nephew (1962) James Baldwin, e.g. If Beale Street Could Talk (Ben loves those Library of America volumes…) Another Country (1962) Giovanni's Room (1956) Sewanee Review, The Corona Correspondence Chronicles of Now George Saunders “A Letter to My Students…." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Ben Fountain is far more than just the author of Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk, which won RTB hearts and minds (and the National Book Award) long before it became a weird Ang Lee movie. Back in 2020's lockdown, RTB asked Fountain what was consoling and engaging him. American novels, especially those about Americans abroad (Joan Didion. say) have always done something special for him. Marilynne Robinson's and James Baldwin's work make us confront the reality that's happening around us all the time, “a freaking massacre.” He carried the the (fictional but genuine) facts of Baldwin's If Beale Street Could Talk in his head for forty years. Allen Tate, Fugitive poet (and author most famously of the tricky post-Eliotic 1928 “Ode to the Confederate Dead“) Joan Didion, The Last Thing He Wanted (1996; “a masterpiece of tone and mood and character and profound interiority”; the movie, not so much) Joan Didion, Democracy (1984; she goes “straight after the heart of that mystery, what is America?“) Marilynne Robinson. Listeners, do you prefer her incisive nonfiction (“Poetry of Puritanism“) or the deep, torqued interiority of her first novel, Housekeeping ? Zadie Smith on the amazing, terrifying Americanness of Kara Walker Kara Walker's “A Subtlety” (also referenced in our Silvia Bottinelli episode on food art!) James Baldwin, A Letter to My Nephew (1962) James Baldwin, e.g. If Beale Street Could Talk (Ben loves those Library of America volumes…) Another Country (1962) Giovanni's Room (1956) Sewanee Review, The Corona Correspondence Chronicles of Now George Saunders “A Letter to My Students…." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's episode 183, but even more importantly, it's our 7th Anniversary Hangout Episode! We can't believe it's already been seven years. It's been a blast and we can't wait for another seven more!Show NotesWe've read so many incredible books over the past seven years and recorded so many fun episodes. Stay tuned for a blog post of our personal favourites coming soon!Speaking of favourites, or at least popularity, our most-listened to episode is still The Rural Diaries by Hilarie Burton Morgan, followed by Joan Didion's Slouching Towards Bethlehem in second place, and Colleen Hoover's Verity sliding in at third.Shout out to our fourth most-listened to episode, Another Country by James Baldwin because it was our very first Baldwin and kicked off our annual tradition and life long love of his work.There's a new Jedidiah Jenkins books coming out in 2026, so you know we'll be reading that. If you're in Toronto and you love science fiction, fantasy, and/or children's books make sure to check out the Lillian H. Smith library branch. They have small exhibits set up showcasing books from their extensive collection.Did you know there's a Ouija museum in Salem?If your in Europe and want to check out some cute books store cafes, these are the ones Gen went to: Paludan Bog Cafe in Copenhagen, Minoa in Berlin, and Bookstor in The Hague. In our next episode we'll be talking about Mariana Enriquez's new book, Somebody Is Walking on Your Grave. And then it's time for our next book club discussion! We're reading Jette's pick, Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid.Books MentionedElsie Silver's Chestnut Spring SeriesLaurie Gilmore's Dream Harbor SeriesExquisite Corpses by James Tynion IVYou Weren't Meant to Be Human by Andrew Joseph WhiteThe Most Unusual Haunting of Edgar Lovejoy by Roan ParrishThe Dead Romantics by Ashley PostonHappy Medium by Sarah AdlerMorbidly Yours by Ivy FairbanksLost in the Garden by Adam S. LesliePart of Your World by Abby JiminezHarriet Tubman Live in Concert by Bob the Drag QueenWorldtree by James Tynion IVMinor Arcana by Jeff LemireMake Me a Mixtape by Jennifer WhiteheadThe Bewitching by Silvia Moreno-GarciaBoys Weekend by Matty LubchanskyThe Late Night Witches by Auralee WallaceEat the Ones You Love by Sarah Maria GriffinThe Sparrow by Mary Doria RusselIt by Stephen KingMapping the Interior by Stephen Graham JonesBlessed Water by Margot DouaihySunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

Welcome to Books We've Loved, a new limited series from Book of The Day. Every episode, we will dig into some of our favorite books, to make the case for picking up a book from the past. Hosted by Book of the Day's Andrew Limbong and Code Switch's B.A. Parker, they will be your guides through these timeless stories. Bringing on NPR voices and book nerds far and wide, they will discuss titles by authors like Anthony Bourdain, James Baldwin, and Jane Austen, and asking their guests questions like — why can't they get this book out of their head? How did this book shift a paradigm, shake the culture, or change their life? And, most importantly, why should you read it now? To listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookofthedayLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Prepare for intrigue, suspense, and unforgettable twists in this groundbreaking anthology of queer crime fiction.In 2023, crime fiction anthologies featured 517 stories across 30 titles—but shockingly, fewer than 1 percent were penned by LGBTQ+ writers. Crime Ink: Iconic (An Anthology of Crime Fiction Inspired by Famous Queer Icons) is a resounding response to this glaring disparity, offering a vibrant collection of stories by and about queer authors and characters.Drawing inspiration from queer icons—James Baldwin, Oscar Wilde, Candy Darling, Radclyffe Hall, Babadook, Megan Rapinoe, Laverne Cox, Dolly Parton, Vita Sackville-West, and many more—these tales span the rich spectrum of crime fiction, from cozy mysteries and whodunits to noir, psychological thrillers, and police procedurals. Each story is a testament to the depth, ingenuity, and thrilling originality of queer voices in the genre.This anthology showcases an incredible array of talent, including New York Times Best Crime Novels of 2024 honorees Margot Douaihy, Robyn Gigl, John Copenhaver, and Katrina Carrasco; Lambda Literary winners Ann Aptaker, Greg Herren, Ann McMan, and J.M. Redmann; and other celebrated writers like Cheryl Head, Penny Mickelbury, Christa Faust, and Kelly J. Ford. But that's not all—this collection also includes many more decorated and emerging voices, ensuring a dynamic reading experience as inclusive as it is entertaining.With a foreword by Ellen Hart and an afterword by Katherine V. Forrest, two luminaries of queer crime fiction, this anthology is more than a collection of stories—it's a movement. Bursting with intrigue, twists, and unforgettable characters, Crime Ink: Iconic is essential reading for crime fiction fans and anyone who craves representation in the stories they love.Includes stories by:Jeffrey Marks • Ann Aptaker • Ann McMan • Cheryl Head • Meredith Doench • Kelly J. Ford • Margot Douaihy • Christa Faust • Robyn Gigl • Greg Herren • Anne Laughlin • Kristen Lepionka • Katrina Carrasco • Mia Manansala • Renee James • Penny Mickelbury • Diana DiGangi • Baxter Clare Trautman • JM Redmann • Katherine V. Forrest • Stephanie Gayle• Marco Carocari • Jeffrey Round• David Pederson • Christopher Bollen • John CopenhaverEdited by:John Copenhaver • Salem WestSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/houseofmysteryradio. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Season 10 opens with fire.

In this special episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I had the privilege of sitting down with the remarkable Ivan Cury—a man whose career has taken him from the golden days of radio to groundbreaking television and, ultimately, the classroom.   Ivan began acting at just four and a half years old, with a chance encounter at a movie theater igniting a lifelong passion for storytelling. By age eleven, he had already starred in a radio adaptation of Jack and the Beanstalk and went on to perform in classic programs like Let's Pretend and FBI in Peace and War. His talent for voices and dialects made him a favorite on the air.   Television brought new opportunities. Ivan started out as a makeup artist before climbing the ranks to director, working on culturally significant programs like Soul and Woman, and directing Men's Wearhouse commercials for nearly three decades. Ivan also made his mark in academia, teaching at Hunter College, Cal State LA, and UCLA. He's written textbooks and is now working on a book of short stories and reflections from his extraordinary life.   Our conversation touched on the importance of detail, adaptability, and collaboration—even with those we might not agree with. Ivan also shared his view that while hard work is crucial, luck plays a bigger role than most of us admit.   This episode is packed with insights, humor, and wisdom from a man who has lived a rich and varied life in media and education. Ivan's stories—whether about James Dean or old-time radio—are unforgettable.     About the Guest:   Ivan Cury began acting on Let's Pretend at the age of 11. Soon he was appearing on Cavalcade of America, Theatre Guild on the Air,  The Jack Benny Program, and many others.  Best known as Portia's son on Portia Faces Life and Bobby on Bobby Benson and The B-Bar-B Riders.    BFA: Carnegie Tech, MFA:Boston University.   Producer-director at NET & CBS.  Camera Three's 25th Anniversary of the Julliard String Quartet, The Harkness Ballet, Actor's Choice and Soul! as well as_, _The Doctors and The Young and the Restless. Numerous television commercials, notably for The Men's Wearhouse.   Taught at Hunter, Adelphi, and UCLA.  Tenured at Cal State University, Los Angeles.  Author of two books on Television Production, one of which is in its 5th edition.    Ways to connect with Ivan:       About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:16 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And the fun thing is, most everything really deals with the unexpected. That is anything that doesn't have anything to do with diversity or inclusion. And our guest today, Ivan Cury, is certainly a person who's got lots of unexpected things, I am sure, and not a lot necessarily, dealing with the whole issue of disabilities, inclusion and diversity, necessarily, but we'll see. I want to tell you a little bit about Ivan, not a lot, because I want him to tell but as many of you know who listen to unstoppable mindset on a regular basis. I collect and have had as a hobby for many years old radio shows. And did a radio program for seven years, almost at UC Irvine when I was there on kuci, where every Sunday night we played old radio shows. And as it turns out, Ivan was in a number of those shows, such as, let's pretend, which is mostly a children's show. But I got to tell you, some of us adults listened and listened to it as well, as well as other programs. And we'll get into talking about some of those things. Ivan has a really great career. He's done a variety of different things, in acting. He's been in television commercials and and he is taught. He's done a lot of things that I think will be fun to talk about. So we'll get right to it. Ivan, I want to thank you for being here and welcome you to unstoppable mindset. Thanks. Thanks. Good to be here. Well, tell us a little bit about kind of the early Ivan growing up, if you will. Let's start with that. It's always good to start at the beginning, as it were,   Ivan Cury ** 03:04 well, it's sorry, it's a great, yes, it's a good place to start. About the time I was four and a half, that's a good time to start. I walked past the RKO 81st, street theater in New York, which is where we lived, and there was a princess in a in a castle kept in the front of this wonderful building that photographs all over the place. Later on, I was to realize that that Princess was really the cashier, but at the time, it was a princess in a small castle, and I loved the building and everything was in it. And thought at that time, that's what I'm going to do when I grow up. And the only thing that's kind of sad is it's Here I am, and I'm still liking that same thing all these years later, that's that's what I liked. And I do one thing or another, I wound up entertaining whenever there was a chance, which really meant just either singing a song or shaking myself around and pretending it was a dance or thinking it was a dance. And finally, wound up meeting someone who suggested I do a general audition at CBS long ago, when you could do those kinds of things I did and they I started reading when I was very young, because I really, because I want to read comics, you know, no big thing about that. And so when I could finally read comics, I wound up being able to read and doing it well. And did a general audition of CBS. They liked me. I had a different kind of voice from the other kids that were around at the time. And and so I began working and the most in my career, this was once, once you once they found a kid who had a different voice than the others, then you could always be the kid brother or the other brother. But it was clear that I wasn't a kid with a voice. I was the kid with the Butch boy. So who? Was who, and so I began to work. And I worked a lot in radio, and did lots and lots of shows, hundreds, 1000s,   Michael Hingson ** 05:07 you mentioned the comics. I remember when we moved to California, I was five, and I was tuning across the dial one Sunday morning and found KFI, which is, of course, a state a longtime station out here was a clear channel station. It was one of the few that was the only channel or only station on that frequency, and on Sunday morning, I was tuning across and I heard what sounded like somebody reading comics. But they weren't just reading the comics. They were dramatized. And it turns out it was a guy named David Starling who did other shows and when. So I got his name. But on that show, he was the funny paper man, and they read the LA Times comics, and every week they acted them out. So I was a devoted fan for many years, because I got to hear all of the comics from the times. And we actually subscribed to a different newspaper, so I got two sets of comics my brother or father read me the others. But it was fun reading and listening to the comics. And as I said, they dramatize them all, which was really cool.   Ivan Cury ** 06:14 Yeah, no doubt I was one day when I was in the studio, I was doing FBI and peace and war. I used to do that all the time, several it was a sponsored show. So it meant, I think you got $36 as opposed to $24 which was okay in those days. And my line was, gee, Dad, where's the lava soap. And I said that every week, gee, Dad, where's the lava soap. And I remember walking in the studio once and hearing the guy saying, Ah, this television ain't never gonna work. You can't use your imagination. And, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 06:52 well, except you really don't use your imagination near especially now I find that everything is way too spelled out, so you don't get to use your imagination.   Ivan Cury ** 07:03 Radio required you to use your radio required you to use it. Yeah, and, and if you had a crayon book at the time, well, and you were 12 or No, no, much younger than that, then it was and that was what you did, and it was fun.   Michael Hingson ** 07:17 So what was the first radio program that you were   Ivan Cury ** 07:20 it was very peculiar, is it New Year's Eve, 19 four? No, I don't know. I'm not sure. Now, it was 47 or 48 I think it was 48 Yeah, I was 11, and it was New Year's Eve, and it was with Hank Severn, Ted Cott, and I did a Jack and the Beanstalk. It was recording for caravan records. It became the number one kids record. You know, I didn't, there was no he didn't get residuals or anything like that. And the next day I did, let's pretend. And then I didn't work for three months. And I think I cried myself to sleep every night after that, because I absolutely loved it. And, you know, there was nothing my parents could do about this, but I wanted, I wanted in. And about three months later, I finally got to do another show. Peculiarly. The next show I did was lead opposite Helen Hayes in a play called no room for Peter Pan. And I just looked it up. It was May. I looked it up and I lost it already. I think, I think I may know what it is. Stay tuned. No, now, nope, nope, nope, ah, so that's it was not. This was May 1949, wow. What was it? Well, yeah, and it was, it was a the director was a man named Lester O'Keefe, and I loved Barry Fitzgerald, and I find even at a very early age, I could do an Irish accent. And I've been in Ireland since then. I do did this, just sometimes with the people knowing that I was doing it and I was it was fine. Sometimes they didn't, and I could get it is, it is pretty Irish, I think, at any rate, he asked me father, who was born in Russia, if we spoke Gaelic at home, we didn't. And so I did the show, and it was fine. Then I did a lot of shows after that, because here was this 11 year old kid who could do all this kind of   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 stuff. So what was no room for Peter Pan about,   Ivan Cury ** 09:27 oh, it was about a midget, a midget who is a young man, a young boy who never grows up, and there's a mind. He becomes a circus performer, and he becomes a great star, and he comes back to his town, to his mother, and there's a mine disaster, and the only one who can save them is this little person, and the kid doesn't want to do it, and it's and there's a moment where Helen Hayes, who played the lead, explained about how important it is the to give up your image and be and be. Man, be a real man, and do the thing, right thing to do. And so that was the   Michael Hingson ** 10:04 story. What show was it on? What series?   Ivan Cury ** 10:07 Electric Theater, Electric Theater, Electric Theater with Ellen Hayes, okay,   Michael Hingson ** 10:10 I don't think I've heard that, but I'm going to find it.   Ivan Cury ** 10:14 Well, yes, there's that one. And almost very soon afterwards, I did another important part with Walter Hughes, Walter Hamden. And that was on cavalcade of America, Ah, okay. And that was called Footlights on the frontier. And it was about, Tom about Joseph Jefferson, and the theater of the time, where the young kid me meets Abraham Lincoln, Walter Houston, and he saves the company. Well, those are the first, first shows. Was downhill from there. Oh, I don't   Michael Hingson ** 10:50 know, but, but you you enjoyed it, and, of course, I loved it, yes, why?   Ivan Cury ** 11:00 I was very friendly with Richard lamparsky. I don't even remember him, but he wrote whatever became of series of books. Whatever became of him was did a lot, and we were chatting, and he said that one of the things he noticed is that people in theater, people in motion pictures, they all had a lot of nightmare stories to tell about people they'd work with. And radio actors did not have so much of that. And I believe that you came in, you got your script, you work with people you like, mostly, if you didn't, you'd see you'd lose, you know, you wouldn't see them again for another Yeah, you only had to deal with them for three or four hours, and that was in the studio. And after that, goodbye.   Michael Hingson ** 11:39 Yeah, what was your favorite show that you ever did?   Ivan Cury ** 11:42 And it seems to me, it's kind of almost impossible. Yeah, I don't know,   Michael Hingson ** 11:51 a lot of fun ones.   Ivan Cury ** 11:54 I'll tell you the thing about that that I found and I wrote about it, there are only five, four reasons really, for having a job. One of them is money, one of them is prestige. One of them is learning something, and the other is having fun. And if they don't have at least two, you ought to get out of it. And I just had a lot of fun. I really like doing it. I think that's one of the things that's that keeps you going now, so many of these old time radio conventions, which are part of my life now, at least Tom sometimes has to do with with working with some of the actors. It's like tennis. It's like a good tennis game. You you send out a line, and you don't know how it's going to come back and what they're going to do with it. And that's kind of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 12:43 Well, so while you were doing radio, and I understand you weren't necessarily doing it every day, but almost, well, almost. But you were also going to school. How did all that work out   Ivan Cury ** 12:53 there is, I went to Professional Children's School. I went to a lot of schools. I went to law schools only because mostly I would, I would fail geometry or algebra, and I'd have to take summer session, and I go to summer session and I'd get a film, and so I'd leave that that session of summer session and do the film and come back and then go to another one. So in all, I wound up to being in about seven or eight high schools. But the last two years was at Professional Children's School. Professional Children's School has been set up. It's one of a number of schools that are set up for professional children, particularly on the East Coast. Here, they usually bring somebody on the set. Their folks brought on set for it. Their professional school started really by Milton Berle, kids that go on the road, and they were doing terribly. Now in order to work as a child Lacher in New York and probably out here, you have to get permission from the mayor's office and permission from the American Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children. And you needed permits to do it, and those both organizations required the schools to show to give good grades you were doing in school, so you had to keep up your grades, or they wouldn't give you a permit, and then you couldn't work. PCs did that by having correspondence. So if a kid was on the road doing a show out of town in Philadelphia or wherever, they were responsible for whatever that week's work was, and we were all we knew ahead of time what the work was going to be, what projects had to be sent into the school and they would be graded when I went, I went to Carnegie, and my first year of English, I went only, I think, three days a week, instead of five, because Tuesdays and Thursdays Were remedial. We wrote We were responsible for a term paper. Actually, every week, you we learned how to write. And it was, they were really very serious about it. They were good schools   Michael Hingson ** 14:52 well, and you, you clearly enjoyed it. And I know you also got very involved and interested in poetry as you went along. Too do. Yes, I did well, yeah, yeah. And who's your favorite poet?   Ivan Cury ** 15:07 Ah, my favorite poets. If that is hard to say, who my favorite is, but certainly they are more than one is Langston, Hughes, Mary, Oliver, wh Jordan, my favorite, one of my favorite poems is by Langston Hughes. I'll do it for you now. It's real easy. Burton is hard, and dying is mean. So get yourself some love, and in between, there you go. Yes, I love that. And Mary Oliver, Mary Oliver's memory, if I hope I do, I go down to the shore, and depending upon the hour, the waves are coming in and going out. And I said, Oh, I am so miserable. Watch. What should I do? And the sea, in its lovely voice, says, Excuse me, I have work to do.   Michael Hingson ** 15:56 Ooh. That puts it in perspective, doesn't   Ivan Cury ** 16:00 it? Yes, it certainly does.   Michael Hingson ** 16:03 So So you, you went to school and obviously had good enough grades that you were able to continue to to act and be in radio, yes, which was cool. And then television, because it was a television Lacher, yeah, yeah. It's beginning of television as well. So I know one of the shows that you were on was the Jack Benny show. What did you do for Jack? Oh, well,   Ivan Cury ** 16:28 I'm really stuffy. Singer is the guy who really did a lot of Jack Benny things. But what happened is that when Jack would come to New York, if there was a kid they needed, that was me, and so I did the Benny show, I don't know, two or three times when he was in New York. I, I did the Jack Benny show two or three times. But I was not so you were, you were nice, man. It came in. We did the show. I went   Michael Hingson ** 16:51 home. You were a part time Beaver, huh?   Ivan Cury ** 16:54 I don't know. I really don't know, but I was beaver or what? I don't remember anything other than I had been listening to the Jack Benny show as a kid. I knew he was a star and that he was a nice man, and when he came into the studio, he was just a nice man who who read Jack Benny's lines, and who was Jack Benny, and he said his lines, and I said my lines, and we had a nice time together. And there wasn't any, there wasn't any real interplay between us, other than what would be normal between any two human beings and and that was that. So I did the show, but I can't talk very much about Jack Benny.   Michael Hingson ** 17:32 Did you? Did you primarily read your scripts, or did you memorize them at all?   Ivan Cury ** 17:37 Oh, no, no, radio. That was the thing about radio. Radio that was sort of the joy you read. It was all about reading. It's all about reading, yeah. And one of the things about that, that that was just that I feel lucky about, is that I can pretty well look at a script and read it. Usually read it pretty well with before the first time I've ever seen it, and that's cold reading, and I was pretty good at that, and still am.   Michael Hingson ** 18:06 Did you find that as you were doing scripts and so on, though, and reading them, that that changed much when you went in into television and started doing television?   Ivan Cury ** 18:22 I don't know what you mean by change.   Michael Hingson ** 18:24 Did you you still read scripts and   Ivan Cury ** 18:26 yeah, no, no, the way. I mean the way intelligent show usually goes as an actor. Well, when I directed television, I used to direct a lot of soap operas, not a lot, but I directed soap operas, but there'd be a week's rehearsal for a show, danger, I'm syndicated, or anything, and so there'd be a week's rehearsal. The first thing you do is, we have a sit down read, so you don't read the script, and then you holding the script in your hand walk through the scenes. Sometimes the director would have, would have blocking that they knew you were going to they were going to do, and they say, here's what you do. You walk in the door, etc. Sometimes they say, Well, go ahead, just show me what you'd like, what you what it feels like. And from that blocking is derived. And then you go home and you try to memorize the lines, and you feel perfectly comfortable that as you go, when you leave and you come back the next day and discover you got the first line down. But from there on, it's dreadful. But after a while, you get into the thing and you know your lines. You do it. Soap opera. Do that.   Michael Hingson ** 19:38 The interesting thing about doing radio, was everything, pretty much, was live. Was that something that caused a lot of pressure for you?   Ivan Cury ** 19:51 In some ways, yes, and in some ways it's lovely. The pressure is, yes, you want to get it right, but if you got to get it but if you get it wrong, give it up, because it's all over. Uh, and that's something that's that isn't so if you've recorded it, then you start figuring, well, what can I do? How can I fix this? You know, live, you do it and it's done. That's, that's what it is, moving right along. And this, this comment, gets to be kind of comfortable, you know, that you're going to, there may be some mistakes. You do the best you can with it, and go on one of the things that's really the news that that happens, the news, you know, every night, and with all the other shows that are live every day,   Michael Hingson ** 20:26 one of the things that I've noticed in a number of radio shows, there are times that it's fairly obvious that somebody made a flub of some sort, but they integrated it in, and they were able to adapt and react, and it just became part of the show. And sometimes it became a funny thing, but a lot of times they just worked it in, because people knew how to do that. And I'm not sure that that is so much the case certainly today on television, because in reality, you get to do it over and over, and they'll edit films and all that. And so you don't have that, that same sort of thing, but some of those challenges and flubs that did occur on radio were really like in the Jack Benny shows and burns and Allen and Phil Harris and so on. They were, they just became integrated in and they they became classic events, even though they weren't necessarily originally part of the plan.   Ivan Cury ** 21:25 Absolutely, some of some of them, I suspect some of them, were planned and planned to sound as if they would just happen. But certainly mistakes. Gosh, good mistakes are wonderful. Yeah, in all kinds of I used to do a lot of live television, and even if we weren't live television, when we would just do something and we were going to tape it and do it later, I remember once the camera kind of going wrong, video going wrong. I went, Wait a minute. That's great. Let's keep it wrong like that, you know. And it was so is just lovely that that's part of the art of improvisation, with how   Michael Hingson ** 22:06 and and I think there was a lot more of that, certainly in radio, than there is on television today, because very few things are really live in the same   Ivan Cury ** 22:17 sense. No, there. There are some kinds of having written, there are some type formats that are live. The news is live, the news is live. There's no, you know, there are. There used to be, and there may still be some of the afternoon shows, the kind of morning and afternoon shows where Show and Tell Dr whatever his name is, Dr Phil, yeah, it may be live, or it's shot as live, and they don't, they don't really have a budget to edit, so it's got to be real bad before they edit. Yeah. So do a show like that called Woman of CBS. So there are shows that are live, like that, sport events are live. A lot of from Kennedy Center is live. There are, there are lots of programs that are live, concerts, that are that you are a lot of them. America's Got Talent might as well be live. So there's a lot of that. And certainly things go wrong in the ad lib, and that's the way, because, in fact, there's some lovely things that happen out of that, but mostly, you're absolutely right. Mostly you do show it's recorded. You intend to edit it, you plan it to be edited, and you do it. It's also different when you shoot multiple camera, as opposed to single camera, yeah, single camera being as you say, again and again and again, multiple camera, not so much, although I used to direct the young and the restless, and now there is a line cut which is almost never used. It's it's the intention, but every shot is isolated and then cleaned up so that it's whatever is, whatever is possibly wrong with it gets clean.   Michael Hingson ** 24:03 Yeah, it's, it's a sign of the changing times and how things, everything   Ivan Cury ** 24:09 is bad. It's just, it's different. In fact, that's a kind of question I'm really puzzled with right now for the fun of it. And that is about AI, is it good or bad?   Michael Hingson ** 24:20 Well, and it's like anything else, of course, it depends. One of the one of my, my favorite, one of my favorite things about AI is a few years, a couple of years ago, I was at a Christmas party when there was somebody there who was complaining about the fact that kids were writing their papers using AI,   Ivan Cury ** 24:43 and that's bad   Michael Hingson ** 24:44 and and although people have worked on trying to be able to detect AI, the reality is that this person was complaining that the kids were even doing it. And I didn't think about it until later, but I realized. Is one of the greatest blessings of AI is let the students create their papers using AI. What the teachers need to do is to get more creative. And by that I mean All right, so when children turn in and students turn in their papers, then take a day and let every student take about a minute and come up and defend the paper they wrote. You're going to find out really quickly who really knew the subject and who just let ai do it and didn't have any interaction with it. But what a great way to learn. You're going to find out very quickly. And kids are going to figure out very quickly that they need to really know the subject, because they're going to have to defend their   Ivan Cury ** 25:41 papers. Yeah, no, I think that's fine. I I don't like the amount of electricity that it requires and what it's doing to our to our needs for water, because it has to be cooled down. So there's some physical things that I don't like about AI, and I think it's like when you used to have to go into a test with a slide rule, and they you couldn't use your calculator. When I use a calculator, it's out of the bag. You can't put it back anymore. It's a part of our life, and how to use it is the question. And I think you're absolutely right. I don't even need to know whether. I'm not even sure you need to check the kids if they it. How will you use? How will we get to use? Ai, it is with us.   Michael Hingson ** 26:30 Well, but I think there's a the value of of checking and testing. Why I'm with you. I don't think it's wrong. I think, no, no, but I think the value is that it's going to make them really learn the subject. I've written articles, and I've used AI to write articles, and I will look at them. I'll actually have a create, like, eight or nine different versions, and I will decide what I like out of each of them, and then I will add my part to it, because I have to make it me, and I've always realized that. So I know anything that I write, I can absolutely defend, because I'm very integrally involved in what I do with it, although AI has come up with some very clever ideas. Yeah, I hadn't thought of but I still add value to it, and I think that's what's really important.   Ivan Cury ** 27:19 I did a I've been writing stuff for a while, and one of the things I did, I wrote this. I wrote a little piece. And I thought, well, what? What would ai do if they took the same piece? How would they do it? So I put it in and said, rewrite it. They did. It was kind of bland. They'd taken all the life out of it. It wasn't very Yeah. So then I said, Well, wait a minute, do the same thing, write it as if it were written by Damon Runyon. And so they took it and they did that, and it was way over the top and really ugly, but it I kind of had fun with what, what the potential was, and how you might want to use it. I mean, I think the way you using it is exactly right. Yeah, it's how you use it, when, when you when, I'm just as curious, when you do that, when you said, you write something, and you ask them to do it four or five times or many times. How do you how do you require them to do it differently.   Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Well, there are a couple different ways. One is, there are several different models that can use to generate the solution. But even leaving aside such as, Oh, let's see, one is, you go out and do more web research before you actually do the do the writing. And so that's one thing and another. I'm trying to remember there were, like, six models that I found on one thing that I did yesterday, and but, but the other part about it is that with AI, yeah, the other thing about AI is that you can just tell it you don't like the response that you   Ivan Cury ** 29:09 got. Aha, okay, all right, yep,   Michael Hingson ** 29:13 I got it. And when you do that, it will create a different response, which is one of the things that you want. So, so so that works out pretty well. And what I did on something, I wanted to write a letter yesterday, and I actually had it write it. I actually had it do it several times. And one time I told it to look at the web to help generate more information, which was pretty cool, but, but the reality is that, again, I also think that I need to be a part of the the solution. So I had to put my my comments into it as well, and, and that worked out pretty well. Okay, right? Yeah, so I mean, it's cool, and it worked. Right? And so the bottom line is we we got a solution, but I think that AI is a tool that we can use, and if we use it right, it will enhance us. And it's something that we all have to choose how we're going to do. There's no no come, yeah, no question about that. So tell me you were successful as a young actor. So what kind of what what advice or what kind of thoughts do you have about youth success, and what's your takeaway from that?   Ivan Cury ** 30:36 The Good, yeah, I There are a lot of things being wanting to do it, and I really love doing it, I certainly didn't want to. I wanted to do it as the best way I could Well, I didn't want to lose it up, is what it really comes down to. And that meant figuring out what it is that required. And one of the things that required was a sense of responsibility. You had to be there on time, you had to be on stage, and you may want to fidget, but that takes to distract from what's going on, so sit still. So there's a kind of kind of responsibility that that you learn, that I learned, I think early on, that was, that's very useful. Yeah, that's, that's really, I think that's, I wrote some things that I had, I figured, some of these questions that might be around. So there, there's some I took notes about it. Well, oh, attention to details. Yeah, to be care to be watch out for details. And a lot of the things can be carried on into later life, things about detailed, things about date. Put a date on, on papers. When, when did, when was this? No, when was this note? What? When did this happen? Just keeping track of things. I still am sort of astonished at how, how little things add up, how we just just noted every day. And at the end of a year, you've made 365 notes,   Michael Hingson ** 32:14 yeah, well, and then when you go back and read them, which is also part of the issue, is that you got to go back and look at them to to see what   Ivan Cury ** 32:23 right or to just know that they're there so that you can refer to them. When did that happen?   Michael Hingson ** 32:28 Oh, right. And what did you say? You know, that's the point. Is that when I started writing thunder dog, my first book was suggested that I should start it, and I started writing it, what I started doing was creating notes. I actually had something like 1.2 megabytes of notes by the time we actually got around to doing the book. And it was actually eight years after I started doing some, well, seven years after I started doing writing on it. But the point is that I had the information, and I constantly referred back to it, and I even today, when I deliver a speech, I like to if there's a possibility of having it recorded, I like to go back and listen, because I want to make sure that I'm not changing things I shouldn't change and or I want to make sure that I'm really communicating with the audience, because I believe that my job is to talk with an audience, not to an audience.   Ivan Cury ** 33:24 Yeah, yeah. I we say that I'm reading. There are three books I'm reading right now, one of them, one of them, the two of them are very well, it doesn't matter. One is called who ate the oyster? Who ate the first oyster? And it's a it's really about paleon. Paleological. I'm saying the word wrong, and I'm paleontological. Paleontological, yeah, study of a lot of firsts, and it's a lovely but the other one is called shady characters by Keith Houston, and it's a secret life of punctuation symbols and other typographical marks, and I am astonished at the number of of notes that go along with it. Probably 100 100 pages of footnotes to all of the things that that are a part of how these words came to be. And they're all, I'm not looking at the footnotes, because there's just too many, but it's kind of terrific to check out. To be that clear about where did this idea come from, where did this statement come from? I'm pleased about that. I asked my wife recently if you could be anything you want other than what you are. What would you want to be? What other what other job or would you want to have? The first one that came to mind for me, which I was surprised that was a librarian. I just like the detail. I think that's   Michael Hingson ** 34:56 doesn't go anywhere. There you go. Well, but there's so. There's a lot of detail, and you get to be involved with so many different kinds of subjects, and you never know what people are going to ask you on any given day. So there's a lot of challenge and fun to that.   Ivan Cury ** 35:11 Well, to me also just putting things in order, I was so surprised to discover that in the Dewey Decimal System, the theater is 812 and right next to it, the thing that's right next to it is poetry. I was surprised. It's interesting, yeah, the library and play that out.   Michael Hingson ** 35:29 Well, you were talking about punctuation. Immediately I thought of EE Cummings. I'll bet he didn't pay much attention to punctuation at all. I love him. He's great, yeah, isn't he? Yeah, it's a lot of fun. An interesting character by any standard. So, so you, you progressed into television, if, I guess it's progressing well, like, if we answer to Fred Allen, it's not, but that's okay.   Ivan Cury ** 35:54 Well, what happens? You know, after, after, I became 18, and is an interesting moment in my life, where they were going to do film with Jimmy Dean, James Dean, James Dean. And it came down and he was going to have a sidekick, a kid sidekick. And it came down to me and Sal Mineo. And Sal got it, by the way. Case you didn't know, but one of the things was I was asked I remember at Columbia what I wanted to do, and I said I wanted to go to college, and my there was a kind of like, oh, yeah, right. Well, then you're not going to go to this thing, because we don't. We want you to be in Hollywood doing the things. And yes, and I did go to college, which is kind of great. So what happened was, after, when I became 18, I went to Carnegie tech and studied theater arts. Then I after that, I studied at Boston University and got a master's there, so that I had an academic, an academic part of my life as well, right? Which ran out well, because in my later years, I became a professor and wrote some   Michael Hingson ** 36:56 books, and that was your USC, right? No, Cal State, Lacher State, LA and UCLA. And UCLA, not USC. Oh, shame on me. But that's my wife. Was a USC graduate, so I've always had loyalty. There you go. But I went to UC Irvine, so you know, okay, both systems, whatever.   Ivan Cury ** 37:16 Well, you know, they're both UC system, and that's different, yeah, the research institutes, as opposed to the Cal State, which   Michael Hingson ** 37:23 are more teaching oriented, yeah,   Ivan Cury ** 37:26 wow, yeah, that's, that's what it says there in the paper.   Michael Hingson ** 37:30 Yes, that's what it says. But you know, so you went into television. So what did you mainly do in the in the TV world?   Ivan Cury ** 37:44 Well, when I got out of when I got through school, I got through the army, I came back to New York, and I, oh, I got a job versus the Girl Scouts, doing public relations. I I taught at Hunter College for a year. Taught speech. One of the required courses at Carnegie is voice and diction, and it's a really good course. So I taught speech at Hunter College, and a friend of mine was the second alternate maker man at Channel 13 in New York. He had opera tickets, so he said, Look standard for me, it's easy, men seven and women five, and telling women to put on their own lipstick. So I did. I did that, and I became then he couldn't do it anymore, so I became the second alternate make a man. Then it didn't matter. Within within six months, I was in charge of makeup for any t which I could do, and I was able to kind of get away with it. And I did some pretty good stuff, some prosthetic pieces, and it was okay, but I really didn't want to do that. I wanted to direct, if I could. And so then I they, they knew that, and I they knew that I was going to leave if, if, because I wasn't going to be a makeup I didn't. So I became a stage manager, and then an associate director, and then a director at Channel 13 in New York. And I directed a lot of actors, choice the biggest show I did there, or the one that Well, I did a lot of I also worked with a great guy named Kirk Browning, who did the a lot of the NBC operas, and who did all of the opera stuff in for any t and then I wound up doing a show called Soul, which was a black variety show. But when I say black variety show, it was with James Baldwin and but by the OJS and the unifics and the delphonics and Maya Angelou and, you know, so it was a black culture show, and I was the only white guy except the camera crew there. But had a really terrific time. Left there and went and directed for CBS. I did camera three. So I did things like the 25th anniversary of the Juilliard stringer check. Quartet. But I was also directing a show called woman, which was one of the earliest feminist programs, where I was the only male and an all female show. And actually I left and became the only gringo on an all Latino show called aqui I ahora. So I had a strange career in television as a director, and then did a lot of commercials for about 27 years, I directed or worked on the Men's Warehouse commercials. Those are the facts. I guarantee it.   Michael Hingson ** 40:31 Did you get to meet George Zimmer? Oh, very, very, very often, 27 years worth, I would figure, yeah.   Ivan Cury ** 40:39 I mean, what? I'm enemies. When I met him, he's a boy, a mere boy.   Michael Hingson ** 40:45 Did you act during any of this time? Or were you no no behind the camera once?   Ivan Cury ** 40:50 Well, the only, the only acting I did was occasionally. I would go now in a store near you, got it, and I had this voice that they decided, Ivan, we don't want you to do it anymore. It just sounds too much like we want, let George do this, please.   Michael Hingson ** 41:04 So, so you didn't get to do much, saying of things like, But wait, there's more, right?   Ivan Cury ** 41:10 No, not at all. Okay, okay. Oh, but you do that very well. Let's try.   Michael Hingson ** 41:13 Wait, there's more, okay. Well, that's cool. Well, that was,   Ivan Cury ** 41:18 it was kind of fun, and it was kind of fun, but they had to, it was kind of fun to figure out things. I remember we did. We had a thing where some of those commercial we did some commercials, and this is the thing, I sort of figured out customers would call in. So we recorded their, their call ins, and I they, we said, with calls being recorded. We took the call ins and I had them sent to it a typist who typed up what they wrote that was sent to New York to an advertising agency would extract, would extract questions or remarks that people had made about the stuff, the remarks, the tapes would be then sent to who did that? I think we edited the tapes to make it into a commercial, but the tags needed to be done by an announcer who said, in a store near you were opening sooner, right? Wyoming, and so those the announcer for the Men's Warehouse was a guy in in Houston. So we'd send, we'd send that thing to him, and he'd send us back a digital package with the with the tags. And the fun of it was that was, it was from, the calls are from all over the world. The the edits on paper were done in New York, the physical work was done in San Francisco. The announcer was in Houston. And, you know? And it's just kind of fun to be able to do that, that to see, particularly having come from, having come from 1949 Yeah, where that would have been unheard of to kind of have that access to all that was just fun, kind   Michael Hingson ** 42:56 of fun. But think about it now, of course, where we have so much with the internet and so on, it'd be so much easier, in a lot of ways, to just have everyone meet on the same network and   Ivan Cury ** 43:09 do now it's now, it's nothing. I mean, now it's just, that's the way it is. Come on.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 Yeah, exactly. So. So you know, one of the things that I've been thinking about is that, yes, we've gone from radio to television and a whole new media and so on. But at the same time, I'm seeing a fairly decent resurgence of people becoming fascinated with radio and old radio and listening to the old programs. Do you see that?   Ivan Cury ** 43:41 Well, I, I wish I did. I don't my, my take on it. It comes strictly from that such, so anecdotal. It's like, in my grandkids, I have these shows that I've done, and it's, you know, it's grandpa, and here it is, and there it's the bobby Benson show, or it's calculator America, whatever, 30 seconds. That's what they give me. Yeah, then it's like, Thanks, grandpa. Whoopie. I don't know. I think maybe there may there may be something, but I would, I'd want some statistical evidence about well, but   Michael Hingson ** 44:19 one of the things I'm thinking of when I talk about the resurgence, is that we're now starting to see places like radio enthusiasts to Puget Sound reps doing recreations of, oh yes, Carl Omari has done the Twilight Zone radio shows. You know, there are some things that are happening, but reps among others, and spurred back to some degree, yeah, spurred back is, is the Society for the Prevention, oh, gosh,   Ivan Cury ** 44:46 not cruelty children, although enrichment   Michael Hingson ** 44:49 of radio   Ivan Cury ** 44:50 drama and comedy, right? Society, right? Yeah, and reps is regional enthusiasts of Puget Sound, Puget   Michael Hingson ** 44:58 Sound and. Reps does several recreations a year. In fact, there's one coming up in September. Are you going to   Ivan Cury ** 45:04 that? Yes, I am. I'm supposed to be. Yes, I think I Yes. I am.   Michael Hingson ** 45:08 Who you're going to play? I have no idea. Oh, you don't know yet.   Ivan Cury ** 45:12 Oh, no, no, that's fun. You get there, I think they're going to have me do a Sam Spade. There is another organization up there called the American radio theater, right? And I like something. I love those people. And so they did a lot of Sam Spade. And so I expect I'm going to be doing a Sam Spade, which I look forward to.   Michael Hingson ** 45:32 I was originally going to it to a reps event. I'm not going to be able to this time because somebody has hired me to come and speak and what I was going to do, and we've postponed it until I can, can be the one to do it is Richard diamond private detective, which is about my most favorite radio show. So I'm actually going to play, able to play Richard diamond. Oh, how great. Oh, that'll be a lot of fun. Yeah. So it'll probably be next year at this point now, but it but it will happen.   Ivan Cury ** 45:59 I think this may, yeah, go ahead. This may be my last, my last show I'm getting it's getting tough to travel.   Michael Hingson ** 46:07 Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Let's see. Let's see what happens. But, but it is fun, and I've met several people through their Carolyn Grimes, of course, who played Zuzu on It's A Wonderful Life. And in fact, we're going to have her on unstoppable mindset in the not too distant future, which is great, but I've met her and and other people, which I   Ivan Cury ** 46:34 think that's part of the for me. That really is part of the fun. Yeah, you become for me now it has become almost a sec, a family, in the same way that when you do show, if you do a show regularly, it is, it really becomes a family. And when the show is over, it's that was, I mean, one of the first things as a kid that was, that was really kind of tough for every day, or every other day I would meet the folks of Bobby Benson and the B Barbie writers. And then I stopped doing the show, and I didn't see them and didn't see them again. You know, I Don Knotts took me to I had the first shrimp of my life. Don Knotts took me to take tough and Eddie's in New York. Then I did another show called paciolini, which was a kind of Italian version of The Goldbergs. And that was, I was part of that family, and then that kind of went away. I was Porsche son on Porsche faces life, and then that way, so the you have these families and they and then you lose them, but, but by going to these old events, there is that sense of family, and there are also, what is just astonishing to me is all those people who know who knows stuff. One day I mentioned Frank Milano. Now, nobody who knows Frank Milano. These guys knew them. Oh, Frank, yeah, he did. Frank Milano was a sound. Was did animal sounds. There were two guys who did animal sounds particularly well. One was Donald Baines, who I worked with on the first day I ever did anything. He played the cow on Jack and the Beanstalk and and Frank, Don had, Don had a wonderful bar room bet, and that was that he could do the sound effects of a fish. Wow. And what is the sound effect of a fish? So now you gotta be required. Here's the sound effect of a fish. This was what he went $5 bets with you. Ready? Here we go.   Michael Hingson ** 48:41 Good job. Yeah, good job. Yeah. It's like, what was it on? Was it Jack Benny? They had a kangaroo, and I think it was Mel Blanc was asked to do the kangaroo, which is, of course, another one where they're not really a sound, but you have to come up with a sound to do it on radio, right?   Ivan Cury ** 49:06 Yes. Oh my god, there were people who want I could do dialects, I could do lots of German film, and I could do the harness. Was very easy for me to do, yeah, so I did love and I got to lots of jobs because I was a kid and I could do all these accents. There was a woman named Brianna Rayburn. And I used to do a lot of shows in National Association of churches of Christ in the United States. And the guy who was the director, John Gunn, we got to know each other. He was talking about, we talked with dialects. He said Briana Rayburn had come in. She was to play a Chinese woman. And she really asked him, seriously, what part of China Do you want her to come from? Oh, wow. I thought that was just super. And she was serious. She difference, which is studied, studied dialects in in. In college not long after, I could do them, and discovered that there were many, many English accents. I knew two or three cockney I could do, but there were lots of them that could be done. And we had the most fun. We had a German scholar from Germany, from Germany, and we asked him if he was doing speaking German, but doing playing the part of an American what would it sound like speaking German with an American accent? You know, it was really weird.   Michael Hingson ** 50:31 I had a history teacher, yes, who was from the Bronx, who spoke German, yeah, and he fought in World War Two. And in fact, he was on guard duty one night, and somebody took a shot at him, and so he yelled back at them in German. The accent was, you know, I took German, so I don't understand it all that well, but, but listening to him with with a New York accent, speaking German was really quite a treat. The accent spilled through, but, but they didn't shoot at him anymore. So I think he said something, what are you shooting at me for? Knock it off. But it was so funny, yeah, but they didn't shoot at him anymore because he spoke, yeah, yeah. It was kind of cool. Well, so with all that you've learned, what kind of career events have have sort of filtered over into what you do today?   Ivan Cury ** 51:28 Oh, I don't know. We, you know. But one of the things I wanted to say, it was one of the things that I learned along the way, which is not really answering your question until I get back to it, was, I think one of those best things I learned was that, however important it is that that you like someone, or you're with somebody and everything is really terrific. One of the significant things that I wish I'd learned earlier, and I think is really important, is how do you get along when you don't agree? And I think that's really very important.   Michael Hingson ** 52:01 Oh, it's so important. And we, in today's society, it's especially important because no one can tolerate anyone anymore if they disagree with them, they're you're wrong, and that's all there is to it. And that just is so unfortunate. There's no There's no really looking at alternatives, and that is so scary   Ivan Cury ** 52:20 that may not be an alternative. It may not be,   Michael Hingson ** 52:23 but if somebody thinks there is, you should at least respect the opinion,   Ivan Cury ** 52:28 whatever it is, how do you get along with the people you don't   Michael Hingson ** 52:32 agree with? Right?   Ivan Cury ** 52:35 And you should one that you love that you don't agree with, right? This may sound strange, but my wife and I do not agree about everything all the time, right?   Michael Hingson ** 52:43 What a concept. My wife and I didn't agree about everything all the time. Really, that's amazing, and it's okay, you know? And in fact, we both one of the the neat things, I would say, is we both learned so much from each other when we disagreed, but would talk about it, and we did a lot of talking and communicating, which I always felt was one of the most important things about our marriage. So we did, we learned a lot, and we knew how to get along, and we knew that if we disagreed, it was okay, because even if we didn't change each other's opinion, we didn't need to try to change each other's opinion, but if we work together and learn to respect the other opinion, that's what really mattered, and you learn more about the individual that way,   Ivan Cury ** 53:30 yeah, and also you have you learn about giving up. Okay, I think you're wrong, but if that's really what you want exactly, I'll do it. We'll do it your way?   Michael Hingson ** 53:42 Yeah, well, exactly. And I think it's so important that we really put some of that into perspective, and it's so crucial to do that, but there's so much disagreement today, and nobody wants to talk to anybody. You're wrong. I'm right. That's all there is to it. Forget it, and that's just not the way the world should be.   Ivan Cury ** 53:59 No, no. I wanted to go on to something that you had asked about, what I think you asked about, what's now I have been writing. I have been writing to a friend who I've been writing a lot of very short pieces, to a friend who had a stroke and who doesn't we can't meet as much as we use. We can't meet at all right now. And but I wanted to just go on, I'm and I said that I've done something really every week, and I'd like to put some of these things together into a book. And what I've been doing, looking for really is someone to work with. And so I keep writing the things, the thing that I wrote just today, this recent one, had to do with I was thinking about this podcast. Is what made me think of it. I thought about the stars that I had worked with, you know, me and the stars, because I had lots. Stories with with people who are considered stars, Charles Lawton, Don Knotts, Gene crane, Maya, Angelou, Robert Kennedy, the one I wrote about today. I wrote about two people. I thought it'd be fun to put them together, James Dean and Jimmy Dean. James Dean, just going to tell you the stories about them, because it's the kind of thing I'm writing about now. James Dean, we worked together on a show called Crime syndicated. He had just become really hot in New York, and we did this show where there were a bunch of probably every teenage actor in New York was doing this show. We were playing two gangs, and Jimmy had an extraordinary amount of lines. And we said, What the hell are you going to do, Jim? If you, you know, if you lose lines, he's, this is live. And he said, No problem. And then what he said is, all I do is I start talking, and then I just move my mouth like I'm walking talking, and everybody will think the audio went out. Oh, and that's, that's what he was planning on doing. I don't know if he really is going to do it. He was perfect. You know, he's just wonderful. He did his show. The show was great. We were all astonished to be working with some not astonished, but really glad to just watch him work, because he was just so very good. And we had a job. And then stories with Jimmy Dean. There were a couple of stories with Jimmy Dean, the singer and the guy of sausage, right? The last one to make it as fast, the last one was, we were in Nashville, at the Grand Ole Opry Opperman hotel. I was doing a show with him, and I was sitting in the bar, the producer and someone other people, and there was a regular Graceland has a regular kind of bar. It's a small bar of chatter, cash register, husband, wife, team on the stage singing. And suddenly, as we were talking, it started to get very quiet. And what had happened is Jimmy Dean had come into the room. He had got taken the guitar, and he started to sing, and suddenly it just got quiet, very quiet in the room. The Register didn't ring. He sang one song and he sang another song. His applause. He said, Thank you. Gave the guitar back to the couple. Walked off the stage. It was quiet while a couple started to sing again. They were good. He started to sing. People began to chatter again. The cash register rang, and I, I certainly have no idea how he managed to command that room to have everybody shut up while he sang and listened to him. He didn't do anything. There was nothing, you know, no announcement. It wasn't like, oh, look, there's Jimmy. It was just his, his performance. It was great, and I was really glad to be working with him the next day well.   Michael Hingson ** 57:56 And I think that having that kind of command and also being unassuming about it is pretty important if you've got an ego and you think you're the greatest thing, and that's all there is to it. That shows too, yeah?   Ivan Cury ** 58:08 Well, some people live on it, on that ego, yeah, and I'm successful on it, I don't think that was what. It certainly   Michael Hingson ** 58:17 wasn't, no, no, no, and I'm not saying that. I'm sure it wasn't that's my point. Yeah, no, because I think that the ultimate best people are the ones who don't do it with ego or or really project that ego. I think that's so important, as I said earlier, for me, when I go to speak, my belief is I'm going to to do what I can to help whatever event I'm at, it isn't about me at all. It's more about the audience. It's more about what can I inspire this audience with? What can I tell the audience and talk with the audience about, and how can I relate to them so that I'm saying something that they want to hear, and that's what I have to do. So if you had the opportunity to go back and talk to a younger Ivan, what would you tell him?   Ivan Cury ** 59:08 Cut velvet? No, there you go. No, what? I don't. I really don't. I don't know.   Michael Hingson ** 59:18 Talk Like a fish. More often   Ivan Cury ** 59:20 talk like a fish. More on there. Maybe. No, I really don't know. I don't know. I think about that sometimes, what it always seems to be a question, what? Really it's a question, What mistakes did you make in life that you wish you hadn't done? What door you wish Yeah, you would open that you didn't? Yeah, and I really don't, I don't know. I can't think of anything that I would do differently and maybe and that I think there's a weakness, because surely there must be things like that. I think a lot of things that happen to one in life anyway have to do with luck. That's not, sort of not original. But I was surprised to hear one day there was a. It. Obama was being interviewed by who was by one of the guys, I've forgotten his name that. And he was talking about his career, and he said he felt that part of his success had been a question of luck. And I very surprised to hear him say that. But even with, within with my career, I think a lot of it had to do with luck I happen to meet somebody that right time. I didn't meet somebody at the right time. I think, I think if I were to do so, if you would, you did ask the question, and I'd be out more, I would be pitching more. I think I've been lazy in that sense, if I wanted to do more that. And I've come to the West Coast quicker, but I was doing a lot of was in New York and having a good time   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:50 Well, and that's important too, yeah. So I don't know that I changed, I Yeah, and I don't know that I would find anything major to change. I think if somebody asked me that question, I'd say, tell my younger self that life is an adventure, enjoy it to the fullest and have fun.   Ivan Cury ** 1:01:12 Oh, well, that's yes. That was the I always believe that, yeah, yeah. It's not a question for me, and in fact, it's one of the things I told my kids that you Abraham Lincoln, you know, said that really in it, in a way a long time ago. He said that you choose you a lot of what you way you see your life has to do with the way the choices you make about how to see it, right? Yeah, which is so cool, right? And one of the ways you might see it says, have fun,   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:39 absolutely well, Ivan, this has been absolutely fun. We've been doing it for an hour, believe it or not, and I want to thank you for being here. And I also want to thank everyone who is listening for being with us today. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. Please feel free to email me. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. Email me at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, so Ivan, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Ivan Cury ** 1:02:10 Oh, dear. Oh, wait a minute, here we go. Gotta stop this. I curyo@gmail.com I C, u, r, y, o@gmail.com There you go. Cury 1r and an O at the end of it, not a zero. I curyo@gmail.com Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:30 Well, great. Well, thank you again, and all of you wherever you're listening, I hope that you'll give us a great review wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star review. We appreciate it, and Ivan, for you and for everyone else listening. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on our podcast, love to hear from you. Love an introduction to whoever you might have as a person who ought to come on the podcast, because I think everyone has stories to tell, and I want to give people the opportunity to do it. So once again, I want to thank you, Ivan, for being here. We really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on and being with us today. Thank you.   1:03:10 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

We all know James Baldwin the high priest of Civil Rights, but what about Jimmy B, the extremely horny homosexual? JB was a chain-smoking, vodka-swilling romantic who fell hard and often—usually for straight men he could never have.This week, Bash and his bestie guestie, Clark Moore, crack open Baldwin's chaos: from his Harlem childhood all the way to his retirement villa in the South of France.Along the way we meet the English teachers who found him a pleasure to have in class, revisit the first gay nights in Greenwich Village, and soak in the winter sun at his Swiss twink's chalet.This is a tour of Baldwin's life through his greatest loves.Get ready to talk about:Love with a capital L, and how it was the key to Baldwin's ideas on race, sex, and revolutionThe contradictions of Baldwin's genius—he was a brilliant debater who lived on a bottle a day and a prophet of love, who struggled to love himselfGiovanni's Room, the gay novel he swore wasn't about being gayAnd why his words still influence us today, from antiracists "doing the work" to an almost annual New Yorker article summing up his life, work, or legacy

Nick Bromell is the author of By the Sweat of the Brow: Labor and Literature in Antebellum American Culture and Tomorrow Never Knows: Rock and Psychedelics in the Sixties, both published by the University of Chicago Press. His articles and essays on African American literature and political thought have appeared in American Literature, American Literary History, Political Theory, Raritan, and The Sewanee Review. He teaches at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and he blogs at thetimeisalwaysnow.org. Nick Bromell's book is a work of intellectual history and political theory that places Black thinkers—writers, activists, and artists—at the center of American democratic thought. He argues that African American intellectual traditions have continually reshaped the meaning of democracy in the U.S., offering critiques and visions that go beyond the frameworks typically emphasized in mainstream political philosophy. The title, taken from James Baldwin's writings, reflectsthe idea that democracy is never finished—it is always urgent and ongoing.The Time is Always Now: Black Political Thought and the Transformation of U.S. Democracy (Oxford UP, 2013) posits that Black thought epitomizes the crucible of American Democratic theory Bromell contends that African American thinkers are not simply responding to oppression but actively producing political theory—ideasabout freedom, justice, equality, and collective life. Their insights emerge from lived experiences of slavery, segregation,and racial inequality, which provide a unique vantage point for critiquing American democracy.Secondly, Democracy is an ongoing and incomplete project of reconstruction, renewal, and revival. Building on Baldwin's phrase “the time is always now,” Bromell argues that democracy must be constantly reimagined and fought for. Black intellectual traditions highlight democracy's fragility and incompleteness, challenging myths of American exceptionalism.Third, American Democracy exists beyond what are known to be traditional American institutions. While mainstream American political theory often places focus on constitutions, governments, or laws, Black thinkers and citizens emphasize affective, relational, and cultural dimensions of democracy—dimensions that exhibit and feature American virtues and values of community, solidarity, and recognition.Fourth, Professor Bromell calls for a vibrant relational empathy and mutual recognition. In this sense, Bromell highlights Black thought's insistence on recognition of shared humanity and mutual vulnerability as the foundation for democraticpractice. Thinkers as varied as James Baldwin, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr, Toni Morrison, and Ralph Ellison stress the necessity of empathy as a civic virtue. Bromell reframes African American intellectual history as politicaltheory, not just cultural or social commentary. He challenges readers to recognize that the deepest resources fordemocratic renewal in America come from traditions forged under conditions of racial oppression.  Ultimately The Time is Always Now insists that democracy is less about stable American institutions and more about the practice of bettering and refining incipient features of American institutions-facing each other honestly, acknowledging and shouldering of collective pain, and being committed to a shared mutual recognition of the totality of our collective experience. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

Nick Bromell is the author of By the Sweat of the Brow: Labor and Literature in Antebellum American Culture and Tomorrow Never Knows: Rock and Psychedelics in the Sixties, both published by the University of Chicago Press. His articles and essays on African American literature and political thought have appeared in American Literature, American Literary History, Political Theory, Raritan, and The Sewanee Review. He teaches at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and he blogs at thetimeisalwaysnow.org. Nick Bromell's book is a work of intellectual history and political theory that places Black thinkers—writers, activists, and artists—at the center of American democratic thought. He argues that African American intellectual traditions have continually reshaped the meaning of democracy in the U.S., offering critiques and visions that go beyond the frameworks typically emphasized in mainstream political philosophy. The title, taken from James Baldwin's writings, reflectsthe idea that democracy is never finished—it is always urgent and ongoing.The Time is Always Now: Black Political Thought and the Transformation of U.S. Democracy (Oxford UP, 2013) posits that Black thought epitomizes the crucible of American Democratic theory Bromell contends that African American thinkers are not simply responding to oppression but actively producing political theory—ideasabout freedom, justice, equality, and collective life. Their insights emerge from lived experiences of slavery, segregation,and racial inequality, which provide a unique vantage point for critiquing American democracy.Secondly, Democracy is an ongoing and incomplete project of reconstruction, renewal, and revival. Building on Baldwin's phrase “the time is always now,” Bromell argues that democracy must be constantly reimagined and fought for. Black intellectual traditions highlight democracy's fragility and incompleteness, challenging myths of American exceptionalism.Third, American Democracy exists beyond what are known to be traditional American institutions. While mainstream American political theory often places focus on constitutions, governments, or laws, Black thinkers and citizens emphasize affective, relational, and cultural dimensions of democracy—dimensions that exhibit and feature American virtues and values of community, solidarity, and recognition.Fourth, Professor Bromell calls for a vibrant relational empathy and mutual recognition. In this sense, Bromell highlights Black thought's insistence on recognition of shared humanity and mutual vulnerability as the foundation for democraticpractice. Thinkers as varied as James Baldwin, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr, Toni Morrison, and Ralph Ellison stress the necessity of empathy as a civic virtue. Bromell reframes African American intellectual history as politicaltheory, not just cultural or social commentary. He challenges readers to recognize that the deepest resources fordemocratic renewal in America come from traditions forged under conditions of racial oppression.  Ultimately The Time is Always Now insists that democracy is less about stable American institutions and more about the practice of bettering and refining incipient features of American institutions-facing each other honestly, acknowledging and shouldering of collective pain, and being committed to a shared mutual recognition of the totality of our collective experience. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Our latest installment of Full Bio focuses on the life of writer James Baldwin, a literary master and essential figure of the Civil Rights movement. Nicholas Boggs discusses his new biography, Baldwin: A Love Story. Nicholas Boggs discusses his new biography, Baldwin: A Love Story. [00:00] Baldwin's early life and work[26:26] Baldwin's career and life in Paris[51:46] Baldwin's later life and civil rights work

Today on AirTalk, Jimmy Kimmel's show gets cut off by ABC indefinitely. How do First Amendment rights play into this?; checking in on CA's bill propositions; a book on the life of James Baldwin; how the pet wellness industry is pushing supplements and TV Talk. Today on AirTalk: Jimmy Kimmel's show gets suspended. How does free speech play in? (0:15) CA legislative round-up (19:22) A book on the life of James Baldwin (32:20) Pet supplements (51:15) TV Talk (1:20:09) Visit www.preppi.com/LAist to receive a FREE Preppi Emergency Kit (with any purchase over $100) and be prepared for the next wildfire, earthquake or emergency!

Our latest installment of Full Bio focuses on the life of writer James Baldwin, a literary master and essential figure of the Civil Rights movement. Nicholas Boggs discusses his new biography, Baldwin: A Love Story. On today's installment, we learn about his literary legacy, his activism, and his final years.

Here's a question that'll keep you up at night: What do you do when you believe in "buy or die" but you're terrified of ruining future opportunities with annoying prospecting sequences? That's exactly what Angie Anderson asked during a recent Ask Jeb session, and it's a problem that's plaguing salespeople everywhere. Angie subscribes to the buy or die mentality but doesn't want to destroy her odds of winning in the future by becoming the prospect's worst nightmare. If you're nodding your head right now, you're not alone. The tension between persistent prospecting and respectful relationship building is one of the biggest challenges facing modern sales professionals, and getting it wrong costs you deals—both now and in the future. The Buy or Die Misconception That's Killing Your Pipeline Here's the brutal truth: Most salespeople completely misunderstand what "buy or die" actually means. They think it's about hammering prospects until they crack, but that's not persistence—that's harassment. Real buy or die mentality recognizes that the prospect is never not a prospect, but sometimes now is not the right time. The key is knowing when to push and when to pull back. Your sequence length and touch frequency should be driven by one critical factor: deal complexity and account size. Short Cycle Sales Need Short, Aggressive Sequences Run 10-14 touch sequences over 10-30 days with touchpoints every 2-3 days. These prospects have buying windows that are typically always open, and the stakes are relatively low. Complex Accounts Require Long-Term Relationship Building For massive, high-value accounts, you could run sequences that extend up to two years. Touch them monthly or quarterly to stay top of mind, waiting for the right opportunity window to open. The magic happens when you track meaningful engagement. In any properly executed sequence, 30-50% of prospects will give you some form of signal—yes, no, or even "go away." All of these responses give you something to work with. But here's the critical part: When you get complete radio silence from the other 50%, you stop. Pull them out of your sequence, slot in fresh prospects, and circle back in 90 days or six months. You have infinite time to go after them—use it strategically. Why Generic Messages Get You Blocked Every Time This brings us to the second major challenge facing modern salespeople: crafting relevant messages that actually resonate with busy prospects. James Baldwin perfectly captured this struggle when he asked about leveraging tools like ZoomInfo to create relevant messaging. He sees tons of information but doesn't know what to use or how to use it effectively. This is where most reps completely miss the mark, and it's costing them relationships. The Research Failure That Destroys Credibility Want to know the fastest way to get permanently blocked? Send a message that screams "I know nothing about you or your business." This happened to me recently with a rep from a major software company. They did everything technically right—multi-channel approach, proper timing, professional voicemails—but they failed at the most critical element: relevance. They prospected Sales Gravy without doing even basic research. My LinkedIn profile was right there. My content was everywhere. I've literally said thousands of times that if you mention my books when prospecting me, I'll almost always respond. But they were too lazy to look. That's not persistence—that's sales malpractice. How to Turn Data Overload Into Relevant Conversations The problem isn't lack of information—it's information overwhelm. Modern tools give you access to massive amounts of data, but most reps freeze up trying to figure out what matters. The solution is asking better questions of your data. Instead of just building lists, use AI-powered tools to ask specific questions: "What are three conversation starters that would make this CEO interested in talking with us?

Our latest installment of Full Bio focuses on the life of writer James Baldwin, a literary master and essential figure of the Civil Rights movement. Nicholas Boggs discusses his new biography, Baldwin: A Love Story. On today's installment, we learn about Baldwin's time in Paris and his relationship with Lucien Happersberger.Fact Check for the tribute to the late Robert Redford: "Barefoot In The Park" was actually released in 1967. 

Our latest installment of Full Bio focuses on the life of writer James Baldwin, a literary master and essential figure of the Civil Rights movement. Nicholas Boggs discusses his new biography, Baldwin: A Love Story. In today's installment, we learn about Baldwin's early life and relationship with his family.

Brad and Lesley recap her conversation with franchise expert Jon Ostenson, unpacking how non-food franchising helps risk-averse entrepreneurs own a business without reinventing the wheel. They highlight funding paths, corporate support, and why following the playbook matters. You will hear practical ways to start while keeping your day job and how Jon's services are paid by franchisors, not you.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:When to treat Reformer footwork differently from leg press.How franchise ownership works even if you keep your day job.Why matching your strengths to the right franchise matters.Why matching your strengths to the right franchise matters.Common mistakes franchisees make when they don't follow the playbook.The mindset shifts around seeing $50K as possible, not impossible.Episode References/Links:Indivisible Movement - https://indivisible.orgBook: She Caused A Riot by Hannah Jewell - https://a.co/d/cGhs5UYP.O.T. Chicago 2025 - https://pilates.com/pilates-on-tour-chicagolandCambodia October 2025 Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.comWinter Tour Waitlist - https://opc.me/eventsSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questionsEp. 544 Matthew Lesko - https://beitpod.com/matthewleskoBook: Non-Food Franchising by Jon Ostenson - https://a.co/d/29XayrQ If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Brad Crowell 0:00  His services to you are free. How are they free, you ask, because he sees what you're trying to do. Then he goes to the franchise, the parent company, and he says, pay me, and I'll help these guys succeed doing your franchise. Pretty brilliant. I was like, wow, that's amazing.Lesley Logan 0:20  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:59  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the supporting convo I had with Jon Ostenson in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one, and then come back and join us, or listen to this one, and then you can decide if you want to listen that one. I think it's great. Jon has a book. It's really wonderful. It's a very niche topic. It's a nerdy topic. It's one I wanted to have because I don't think entrepreneurs, I'm like, making your own idea is for everybody, but I do think everybody deserves to have the wealth and agency that they want to have in this world and make what they want to make. So I'm excited about it. Brad Crowell 1:30  Well, I thought I really liked, I really liked the conversation. I was very I mean, especially for me, because I am very entrepreneurial, but I appreciated the back and forth. So, yeah, I, I think that it was very revealing. Lesley Logan 1:51  Are you saying it was a great interview? Did I do a good job? Brad Crowell 1:51  I'm saying it was a great interview. Not only that, but I think the information that he's sharing is shocking. He's super smart dude, and I thought, I thought it was very revealing for someone who might be hoping, wishing they could own a business. This was very empowering, because it, it created hope I think. So, yeah, great. Lesley Logan 2:17  I well, you'll, you guys, stay tuned. You'll hear what we're talking about in a second. Today is September 11th, 2025 and it's Patriot Day, which gives us all time to reflect on the devastating terror attacks that took 3000 lives. We commemorate those who we lost, and give thanks to the brave responders who put their lives on the line. Take a moment today to consider what we stand for as a nation, how we can work together to make the world a better place for all. It's a hard day. Brad Crowell 2:39  Yeah, I mean.Lesley Logan 2:40  Especially with 20, with 25 years to reflect on what fucking lies we're told afterwards, and then how we treat the first responders and how fucking hard it was to get their medical bills paid because they're dying from cancer right now. Like.Brad Crowell 2:56  Yeah, it's like, it's like a story that keeps repeating itself where something devastating happens that is wrong and tragic. People die and then motherfuckers in office take advantage of the public's emotional state, and they use it to go do some wrong shit. Lesley Logan 3:18  Go, so seriously, go watch the movie Vice. I happen to be really lucky to be teaching Christian Bale's wife at the time that he was filming that. And so it was a really interesting time, because, like, he was becoming Dick Cheney, which, like, it is a, I mean, of course, he won an, I think he won a bunch of awards for that. And he literally thanked Satan for the inspiration. Brad Crowell 3:41  Yes, he did. Lesley Logan 3:37  And I remember, I remember my client. I remember my client was, my client was just like, I fucking told him not to do that, or something like that. And so anyways, but go watch it, because it, while it's not historical, it is pretty fucking accurate about like, how rich Cheney and these bitches got after doing what they did and using, using the heartbreak, and what people fought with patriotism to go make these fucking wars, and then we did a bunch of bullshit, and then we ruined places. And it just pisses me off, because. Brad Crowell 4:04  Over, over, lies. Lesley Logan 4:09  Lies and so. And also, if you don't believe in September 11th being what it was like, I don't know why you're here, but like, I, I just really.Brad Crowell 4:18  Well, it was, I mean, it was a terrorist attack, no question. But what we did after it, how the public was manipulated, to then go to war for 20 years after, based on literal lies, you know.Lesley Logan 4:30  Yeah, it's, I it's hard because, like, okay, reflecting on what we consider as a nation today, I think, as an I think the people running our nation today reflect something I would never want to be a patriot of.Brad Crowell 4:42  Yeah, and that that's, that's the thing that really frustrates me as a person who, when you read the definition of patriot, I want to be that. That is absolutely, I mean, I consider myself a patriot. But also there's this, there's this frustrating association with angry white men, usually, who don't give a shit about people. And there's so much fear of others associated with it. And there's this ego that's associated with it that.Lesley Logan 5:17  It's, it's so it's so fragile. What they're like, they're thinking is so they are. They're such fragile people. Because they're just like, they're the way that they think, that they're showing strength. And we're like, protesting, they're like, like, making sure that we see the middle finger, and like, just like, and it's like, I have never driven in my entire life, of driving past something, we're talking about this with the protest where I disagree. Brad Crowell 5:39  We used to live by protests all the time, where we lived in L.A., we're literally next to the federal building, so it was like, every weekend, forever.Lesley Logan 5:45  Every weekend, it was like, who's protesting today? And like, there were times I was like, oh, I wonder why. It made me get curious as to, like, what is going on here. It was very fascinating. And it was like, what the fuck like, but I never was like, here's my middle finger to you. It's like, just, you know, move along. Move right along. The fact that you have to make sure I see your face in your lifted stupid truck while you flip me off, it makes you and that makes you feel good. You're like, yeah, I did it to them. I did it like, we were in Idaho, and there was a big ass sign in this guy's house. I was walking by the lake, and it was like, make liberals cry again, and it's like, oh, you think I'm crying. I'm pissed off. Like the tears of the tears are of what we are losing, of course, but like, no, I'm pissed off. James Baldwin, I want to, I want to make sure everyone hears this quote, because I think it's really beautiful, and I think it's this is what being a patriot is. I love America more than any other country in the world, and exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually. And I think that, like, this country has so many shortcomings, and no country is perfect. Like, I was listening to Sophia Bush on a podcast recently, and she's like, like, I'm not gonna move because, like, I love this place. I'm gonna fight for her. And so, like, if you moved and whatever, like, I have no judgments for that, but if you're here, like, you have to fight, because we're losing rights. We're losing rights. And it really pisses me off, because in the time of my mother being an adult and married woman, she could not get a credit card until, like, the 80s, right? Like, like, I if you're listening to this and you're just like, la, la, la, I just want to hear about how to be till I see it. Ladies, you are going to lose your ability to have your own bank account. You're gonna lose your ability to have your own vote. And if you think it's not going to happen because, oh, it's not going to happen. It's they want it to happen. And the right people are in power. And I'm tired of being told that Project 2025 is bullshit. It is happening right now. Lesley Logan 5:46  They're more than 50% of the way through completing Project 2025.Lesley Logan 5:48  In the time we're recording this, seven months. Brad Crowell 7:40  Yeah, seven months. And, I mean, you know, if you go through and you actually read the things that are in that platform, they they do want to make single family voting, which is literally taking away the white the rights of women, because they would consider the man the head of the household. Lesley Logan 8:02  And if you think, oh, I'm not married yeah your brother get to vote for you. I don't have a brother, your uncle get to vote for you. Like they will find a man if and when this type of life existed, they would find someone in the government to become your vote. You don't get there's no getting out of this. You don't get one.Brad Crowell 8:17  Yeah, and, and, and the people in power are Tweeting about that stuff, literally right now, right like they're they're putting it out there. They're trying to normalize the idea so that when they go and try to do it, it doesn't seem like it's as big of a deal as it actually fucking is. Lesley Logan 8:32  So you know what I think patriotism is right now, babe, it is, find a protest. I know you're busy. I know you have fucked tons, going on. We are, too. Find one. Go for an hour. Go yell. Go meet friends. Go meet people who are different than you. It's, these protests people, some people are fighting for their their gay marriages to still exist. Some people are fighting further to not be war. Some people are fighting for God. Some people are fighting to like for the Epstein list. I don't care what gets you out there, but like you think that this, that what they're gonna do is not gonna affect your life, it is. It is. Brad Crowell 8:55  Yeah, go, go check out individual, indivisible.org, for a local, you know, event, or how you can get involved near you. So, you know, we're gonna move on, and we're gonna actually. Lesley Logan 9:11  Well, people like this, Brad, we've been told, hi, Vicky.Brad Crowell 9:14  I think it's so important y'all and and it's like this, I know that we this isn't a podcast about politics, but it is. Lesley Logan 9:22  But also, but also. Brad Crowell 9:23  Being it until you see it is a pod, it is about like politics, and it is a part of every single element of our life, even if you have the perfect life, quote, unquote, it's because of politics that you are able to live the way that you live. And what's happening right now is such fast, dramatic change in our countries. Like, historically, there's so much change happening so quickly there, that when we wake up, you know, in even six months from now, it's going to be like, there we are at the brink of things. Lesley Logan 9:53  I don't even know how we're going to make it to the midterms. That's my fear. That's my fear, and I put it out right now, but I will just say, even if you're like, less. I just want a homestead. I want to be like tradwife. The fact that you get to choose that is because of politics. So that is fine if that's what you want to choose to do. But do not think that everybody wants to do that and that that should be the choice for everybody. So I think that like that is why we have to get involved. And if you are a woman, you are political. Your existence in any room is political has been and if you really want to get fired up, go read the book, She Caused A Riot. Go look at history. Like fucking Socrates, his teacher was a woman. Did you know that? The reason you don't know that is because politics, they didn't want you to know that there was leaders in this world.Brad Crowell 10:39  Politics and religion. Lesley Logan 10:39  Fuck that. Anyways. Brad Crowell 10:39  Frustrating. Lesley Logan 10:39  I'm pissed off, but we're currently in the U.K. We're in the U.K. and then when we get home, well, we're home for a couple of weeks, and we gotta see my best friends and come visit, and then we're gonna go to Chicagoland for Pilates On Tour with Balanced Body. I'm doing the Joe's Gyms there. That's in Burr Ridge. If there's any spots left, you should snag one, because it's super, super fun, and we have a huge party coming with all of our agency eLevate OPC members, then we're gonna be in Cambodia. That's also in October. You can still join like you can join last minute. Guess what? Flight planes will sell a seat as long as there is one. So you can get the fuck out of town and retreat a little bit and be in a different world and get some empathy for what it's like to live in different places.Brad Crowell 11:21  Yeah, and experience a different culture and see that not everybody.Lesley Logan 11:24  If you are worried. Sorry, I cut you off. If you're worried about being an American in a different country, let me tell you, they see what's happening right now, and they are, in Cambodia, they are sad for us. They are scared for us. They know that they know where we're headed, and they're sad for us.Brad Crowell 11:25  Yeah, I was just gonna say with our experience recently about trying to cross borders and getting stuck and turned around and not being able to, it wasn't the it wasn't the attendees of the events that we were not able to attend who were angry with us. It was the border guard who was, you know, unfortunately, misinformed and, you know, and angry. And he's angry because the border guards of our country were turning away people for no reason. So he could just, that's the only power he had, was to turn away, you know, Americans for no reason. And we just kind of got caught up in that. So there's a lot of, there is a lot of frustration, but it's not from the people, right, in this country, it's like, you know? So, so I would say, you know, yeah, it did feel a little bit stressful to you know, as we were approaching, once we got there and started talking to them, it became clear that that there was just silly reasons being turned away but, but even in that, like the you know, the guy wasn't like, he wasn't an asshole about it. So, but I it was really frustrating. If you're worried about something like that, when you come to a place like Cambodia, you apply for your visa ahead of time. You will know before you arrive if they're going to turn you around, because you'll have the right paperwork.Lesley Logan 13:06  And also you're we're all going as tourists. The Canadian thing, we were going into work. Brad Crowell 13:11  That's true. Lesley Logan 13:11  And that was it, we'll have to do a whole episode on it, because it's a longer, longer conversation. That being said, you go to. Brad Crowell 13:18  But as a tourist, they want a tourist. They want that because. Lesley Logan 13:21  That's how they're that's literally how their country survives. Brad Crowell 13:24  Yep, it's how well, it's how the city that we're going to, that's how the economy there survives, from tourism. So, you know, and they are very aware of that, so. Lesley Logan 13:32  Yes, they want us there. They're so welcoming, they're so kind, and you can see what it's like to be living in a different part of this world. I think that's so important. I think one of the biggest reasons why people in this, in the U.S., are so fucking scared of people of a different color is because they've never, they've never gone and seen how they live. Yeah, you know, go get worldly. You will have more empathy, crowsnestretreats.com. After we leave Cambodia, we're going to be in Singapore. We're going to teach at a beautiful studio there, and then we're gonna see the Botanical Gardens. And then we're home. We're home for the whole month of November. Oh my God, no, Brad, I'm not going camping anywhere. We're home for the whole month of November. Brad Crowell 14:10  But my parents are coming. We're gonna go camp. Lesley Logan 14:12  No, we're, that is not why they're coming to visit us. Help make an, help you with the roof or something. And then October, we're gonna be on our winter tour. And if you want to make sure you hear about that first, go to opc.me/events, opc.me/events, because our people on our waitlist will get the access to the tickets first. And the winter tour does have cities that sell out in 24 hours. Okay, we have to get to our interview, but we do have an audience question. So Brad, go for it.Brad Crowell 14:37  Yes. Okay. DMK asks on Instagram, hey Lesley, my footwork question is this, what cue or cues do you like to use during footwork? I'm sorry, if footwork students, very confused. They made a mistake on the word here.Lesley Logan 14:42  What cues do you like to use, if during footwork, students are using it like a leg press? Brad Crowell 14:56  Oh, sorry. Okay. Lesley Logan 14:57  Yeah, thank you. Brad Crowell 14:59  Well, I just read that wrong. That's all.Lesley Logan 15:00  It's okay, it's all good. So.Brad Crowell 15:04  First off, we're clearly talking about. Lesley Logan 15:06  Footwork on the Reformer. Yeah. DMK, this, I hate cues.Brad Crowell 15:13  Well, hold on, let's explain what the problem is. What is the problem that she's experiencing with her class? Lesley Logan 15:17  The problem that she's probably seen is they're, they're, they're pushing out and in, like, it's a leg press machine, like, it's like a leg machine, and they're making it only a leg exercise versus a full body exercise, right? And then the other thing is that they're not using all the muscles of their legs, because they're just, like, shoving their knees straight. And they're probably pausing at the top, which is what you do on a leg press machine. And then kind of, hopefully, on a leg press machine, you're resisting. But a lot of people just kind of, like, close the the weights, or just like, kind of float in or ride the springs in. So here's the deal, DMK, my teacher, Jay Grimes, and the teachers I studied with him, talked a lot about how Joe didn't really correct during footwork. You use footwork to tell you what's kind of going on in the person's body. So I also happen to like three or four springs on for footwork. So some people think that, like heavy springs means they're gonna use it like a leg press machine, but ideally you want those heavy springs to warm the body up. Two lightest springs can actually affect someone's lower back, if they have a tight lower back, or they're not getting the connection, and the warm up for what's to come. So I do like three to four springs. That being said, what you can do for those people who want to make it a leg press machine, take all the springs off, go down to one light spring and see what happens. They're going to fly off. And you're like, yeah, you actually have to push into the foot bar the whole time, even as you come in. So I love a one spring, because it kind of helps teach the actual movement, and then load the springs up. If you take my fast workshop, I think you can get it on our OPC website. You'll see how I explain how to use especially with arches and heels to do that. The other thing I would say is ask them, if they are opening the front of the hips or opening the back of the knees. What is their intention? Meaning, the, when you focus on opening the knee joint, you're a leg press machine. When you focus on opening the front of the hips, you're making this move from your center. I am looking, I actually don't care people's knees go straight. I'm looking at, can they move their thigh away from their center and open the front of their hips and then pull that back in. So I'm kind of looking at that, but if they don't do those things, the footwork is just really telling me how they're actually moving. And I have to pick other exercises to assist. So other ways to help them understand that's not like press machine would be doing leg springs. Single leg springs, both leg springs, footwork on the Tower is gonna be really helpful, because that's a whole different plane. And so like, find different exercises that get your point across. Ask them what they're feeling and then take them back to the Reformer and say, find that feeling here.Lesley Logan 17:39  Great. Love it. That's the best cue you could do. Lesley Logan 17:50  There you go. Brad Crowell 17:50  I love it. Great question, DMK. Lesley Logan 17:52  Thanks, DMK. Brad Crowell 17:52  If you have a question, just text us. 310-905-5534, 310-905-5534 or you can actually send your question in through, beitpod.com/questions, beitpod.com/questions.Lesley Logan 18:07  That's where you can also send your wins in, too. I want your wins, people. Brad Crowell 18:14  We want your wins. Let's do it. All right. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're actually going to talk about Jon Ostenson next. Lesley Logan 18:20  Finally. Brad Crowell 18:22  All right, let's talk about Jon Ostenson. An expert in franchising and based out of Atlanta, Georgia, Jon Ostenson left his W2 job eight years ago, after years in the corporate world, to become president of Shelf Genie, a large franchise system where he says he fell in love with the franchise model, which he explained amazingly and in detail during the interview. So if you didn't get a chance to listen to that, I would, I would very much encourage you to go listen to it. It was super informative. He is, Jon, is now the founder of FranBridge Consulting and author of the bestselling book, Non-Food Franchising, which, Lesley, I know you read, I've seen it on our table out there. Jon helps clients find suitable franchise opportunities from over 600 different brands outside of the fast food industry. His mission is to guide individuals who want to own a business but may feel risk-averse or lack a, quote unquote, genius idea connecting with them with proven scalable franchise model, and here's the, models, and here's the crazy thing, this is where I was like, oh my God, this guy's brilliant, his services to you are free. How are they free, you ask, because he sees what you're trying to do then he goes to the franchise, the parent company, and he says, pay me, and I'll help these guys succeed doing your franchise. Yeah, pretty brilliant. I was like, wow, that's amazing. So.Lesley Logan 19:44  I love it. I love it so much because it's, like, it's completely risk-averse for you, like, and the reason I thought this, I really wanted to dig in with this guy, because I don't even understand how you get into a franchise, and. Brad Crowell 19:58  Well, it makes me want to get into franchises. Lesley Logan 20:00  I know. And we just met someone who's like, all he does is all these different franchises and and so I just like it because, like, first of all, we talked a lot about how you could, like, work and have a franchise. Like, it's like, there's like, there's all these different ways you can do it. So, anyways.Brad Crowell 20:16  Yeah, he said a lot of franchisors, the people on the franchise, still might have a day job, because. Lesley Logan 20:21  Yeah. Aren't they a franchisee? Brad Crowell 20:24  Oh, sorry, franchisee. You're, you're right. The franchisor is the parent company. The franchisee is the person who's, who's like, purchase one of the locations or whatever. So the franchisee as if you could still be working your normal life and have a franchise, obviously, then it's about the team that you put in place to make sure that they can run it without you having to be there. But, but this guy was talking about having franchises all over the country, so he's clearly not in them operating them. Lesley Logan 20:51  Yeah. But also. No. And so you can be an owner-operator. He has, he, like, his book has got a lot of this stuff in it, if you want to, like, dig in even more and then chat with him, but like, here's what I. Brad Crowell 20:51  And by the way, we're not just talking about Pilates franchises. Lesley Logan 21:02  No, he is, like, there's so many, there's some out there. And also, like, I personally, I personally don't want to grab someone else's Pilates franchises, because, the way I like to teach, I probably would want to make my own, but maybe I want to get one that's in the like, maybe that's like a red light sauna space or something that goes along with what I do, that's like in the thing that I am interested in, in life, like I'm already. Brad Crowell 21:23  Or salt path, float, float, yeah, floating, yeah.Lesley Logan 21:27  By the way, there is a float place that I'm sure, is a franchise in Nashville that I'm like, how the fuck do we get it out here in our neighborhood? Because I'm tired of driving 30 minutes to go fucking float, I'm pissed off by the time I get back. Anyways, we just need, I don't know, a few thousands of dollars, and then we can do it, babe. I think, here's where our next adventure is. Brad Crowell 21:45  (inaudible) crazy is you said that, like, a lot of people, will start a franchise with maybe, you know, $50,000 to $100,000 down, and the rest of it is actually from a an SBA loan, because the SBA and the banks believe in the franchise model so much that they are willing to effectively front the rest of the startup capital. And I was like, wow, I never thought about that. That's amazing. Because, and like, you know, $50,000 is still a shitload of money. I understand that. But it also isn't a million dollars, right? Lesley Logan 22:18  And also, like, anyone who wants to start to make legitimate money, you have to stop thinking that $50,000 is a lot of money, start thinking it's possible, that you can get it, that there's a way, because I remember thinking that, oh, my God, it's so much money. And let me tell you the long as you think 50,000 is so much money you're gonna have, it's gonna feel so far away when you start to think like, of course I still have to find $50,000 you, go listen to that podcast we have with the guy with the question marks, I forget his name, anyways, go and find it, but let's just talk about things I loved that he said. Okay, let me get into my notes. He said, you're in business for yourself, but not by yourself. And I love this, because so many of the people I meet, they're like, so lucky that you and Brad, like, are married and like, you work together. And our biggest response is, like, not everyone should do what we do. So if you want to be in business for yourself, but not by yourself, instead of working with your partner, why don't you get a partner? And it can be a franchise like, I think that's really cool.Brad Crowell 23:09  And different franchisors offer different support, and that's one of the conversations that that you could have with a person like Jon, where you might be like, hey, I am innately a marketer, but I'm terrible at operations, right? Then he, he might say, okay, well, this franchise, you know, whatever, they can help. Or, or conversely, I hate marketing. I'm really, that's not my jam. I need a franchise that will create the content for me that I can just use to put out there. So they're different, like, corporate offices will do different things for the business to support the franchisee and but, but, but as a as a layman, how am I supposed to know? But Jon gets to see hundreds of franchises. Lesley Logan 23:53  I think that's what's so cool. Is like, if you know your strengths, then you can talk to Jon and figure out, like, what are the different franchises that I'm interested in that are, like, in an area I want to be in, and then, okay, of those, which one matches my strengths and my weaknesses? Because you don't want to have something that's like, great at marketing and you're great at marketing, but like, has the systems are not there for the operations, like things like that, but also the franchiser does a lot for you. And remember, it's a proven business model, so like, it's already figured like, it's already thrown ideas at the wall, figured out what works, and then you just get to rinse and repeat that. And I really, I really like that for people who want to create their own schedule, create their own impact, be part of the community, but are risk-averse, you know? And by the way, I get it, we just.Lesley Logan 24:39  I'm risk-averse, too. Lesley Logan 24:39  Oh my god, you really are. Brad Crowell 24:41  But in a measurable way. But it's like, I wouldn't want to go, just go throw money away and hope, hope that something works. Imagine being able to follow a systematic approach where they figured out all the kinks in the business. Like, like the business that Lesley and I run that we've created, it has taken us a lot longer to get to where we are today. It's literally 10 years now, 10 years of running this business, yeah, 10 years of trying to figure things out, making mistakes, doing all this stuff, when with a franchise model, there are so many less mistakes to make, because hypothetically, they've already made the mistakes for you and figured it out and put together the playbook that you can simply follow the plan, the process, right? I really loved when he talked about business ownership is really hard. It takes a lot of work. And, yeah, that's that's very true, too. And he said, if it was easy, everyone would be a business owner, and what he what so, so, of all the pros that we've been talking about with a franchise model, it still does take a lot of work, and it's it takes focus and and the biggest thing he mentioned was the people who fail don't follow the plan, right? And Jon goes, calls up the franchise corporate office and goes, yo, what happened here? What's going on? And the franchisor said, you know, would say to Jon, well, look, we did everything we could to support this person, but they didn't listen. They just didn't fucking listen, you know. And that doesn't mean that, like, there won't still be challenges, because every single location is different, every market is different, every opportunity. And what I mean that, I mean different franchise model is different, you know. So it still will take work, but you don't have to do it alone, you know. And that that's amazing, you know. So, so anyway, he doesn't sugarcoat franchises but he said it's a lot easier and a lot more predictable. Lesley Logan 26:40  His book, actually, like, talks about, like, like, kind of like, if it's for you, you know, and this is where like, it, for us to follow the rules, right, with you, you have to know, okay, we're gonna do this thing with this company. We're gonna follow their rules, which means I'm gonna hire someone to go follow their rules, because I am unemployable, so I will probably fuck him up, but you have to know that about yourself, you know. Such a cool dude. He also was like, because I told him I have an idea, I still have an idea that I might want to, like happen and make, and franchise and he's like, just give me a call. Run it by me. And I'm like, amazing. I just love how generous people can be. Brad Crowell 27:18  Yeah, yeah. Well, stick around, we're going to talk about how generous Jon is with his Be It Action Items, in just a minute. Brad Crowell 27:25  All right, so finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Jon Ostenson? He said he really encourages people who are interested in franchising or the concept of franchising, to just simply explore, that there's no downside, there's no cost to learn about how it works, what it is, is it even plausible for me? Is this something that I could do while still doing my life? He said it's super free to work with them, which we already talked about at the very beginning of this convo here. FranBridge consulting, his company helps clients navigate and find top available opportunities among over 600 different non-food franchise brands and. Lesley Logan 28:08  We love that. I do not want to deal with food. Brad Crowell 28:10  Well, he's he's not, he's not opposed to food, but it also, apparently, just adds a whole lot more variables in there. Lesley Logan 28:16  I used to work at a coffee shop, and it was small business-owned, and I'm going to tell you right now, it is,.Brad Crowell 28:21  Well, that's different than a franchise, because a franchise is a system, so small business-owned might make things just complicated because they're making shit up.Lesley Logan 28:28  Food, food, there's, like, the things you have to do to prevent rats.Brad Crowell 28:32  Right, there's just a lot more variables when it comes to food. There's also a lot of more licensing and a lot more, like red tape with like, local state government stuff, you know. So anyway, he explained that what I already mentioned is that, how does he get paid? He gets paid by the franchise business, the corporate, right? He, you're not necessarily paying him directly. So, I mean, it seems like an absolute win-win.Lesley Logan 28:57  Just worth having the conversation like there's no, there's no harm in it, you know. Brad Crowell 29:00  Yeah. What about you? Lesley Logan 29:01  So I love that he said, activity breeds activity. Yes. It's like a body in motion, stays in motion. Yesterday, we just got into town, you know, at midnight on Friday night. I guess it's Saturday morning. Anyways, our friend, my she saw me at the gym, and she's like, you're like, the most consistent creature. And I'm like, I don't if I was to not be consistent, like, like, if I used travel as an excuse, I would never be consistent. So activity breeds activity. A body motion stays in motion. Explain, it's the idea he saw play out in his career and life, that whenever he gets off the sidelines he starts moving to Option A or B. That's that, then that's when option C comes out of left field. He says, good things happen when you're in motion. And it's so true. Like, it's so true. You know, even we got sidelined with the fucking Canada thing, we pivoted and kept going. And, like, because we did that, other things happened, that the dominoes kept going. And like, these other opportunities came around. And I think, like. Brad Crowell 29:53  Yeah, we met a whole studio we never would have met. Lesley Logan 29:55  We totally did. Could be a pop-up someday. But at any rate, like, you know, you, you'd be surprised what happens. Too often, we get we get sidelined, and we're like, I'm gonna sit over here. Keep going, take another step. And if you hear, as you hear in the podcast, it says action is the antidote to fear. So anyways, I'm Lesley Logan. Brad Crowell 30:16  And I'm Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 30:17  Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We love your reviews. Leave us more reviews. I want more reviews. It's my love language. And share this with a person who needs to hear it like you might have a friend in your life who is like, kind of stuck, kind of wondering what to do. Maybe this is what they need. So send them Jon's episode. Send them this episode. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. Brad Crowell 30:38  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 30:38  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod. Brad Crowell 31:21  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 31:27  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 31:31  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 31:39  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 31:42  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

9.9.2025 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: MO GOP Map Targets Black Voters, Pressley Demands Powell Answer on Black Jobs, Pastor vs. MAGAMissouri Republicans have passed a proposed congressional map that could expand the GOP's razor-thin majority in the U.S. House. Congressional Black Caucus Chair Yvette Clarke will join us to discuss the racist efforts aimed at undermining Black and minority representation in Congress.Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley is demanding that Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell address the rising unemployment rate among Black women. She'll be here to explain why Black women's employment is a "key metric of the health of the U.S. economy."A New York pastor calls out MAGA Christians. His message: "Don't confuse them with real Christians." Racist conservative commentator Charlie Kirk is blaming young white women for the "West's fertility collapse." Tonight's Black Star Network Marketplace segment is for art lovers. The award-winning artist, DomoINK, who created the James Baldwin piece in our studio, will explain how her work brings representation to people of color.#BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbasehttps://www.startengine.com/offering/fanbaseThis Reg A+ offering is made available through StartEngine Primary, LLC, member FINRA/SIPC. This investment is speculative, illiquid, and involves a high degree of risk, including the possible loss of your entire investment. You should read the Offering Circular (https://bit.ly/3VDPKjD) and Risks (https://bit.ly/3ZQzHl0) related to this offering before investing.Download the Black Star Network app at http://www.blackstarnetwork.com! We're on iOS, AppleTV, Android, AndroidTV, Roku, FireTV, XBox and SamsungTV.The #BlackStarNetwork is a news reporting platform covered under Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This 2020 episode covers James Baldwin, who was a brilliant essayist, one of the chroniclers of the Civil Rights Movement, and a powerful voice against racism.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.