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We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Special Guest: Arick Wierson, Emmy-winning producer and TRR contributor The retail apocalypse isn't coming from Amazon or an economic recession—it's being manufactured in Washington through tariff policy that defies basic business logic. A comprehensive analysis of C-suite perspectives across small, medium, and large retailers reveals an industry caught between political conviction and economic reality, where even a "modest" 10 percent tariff can obliterate the profit margins that grocery and discount chains measure in single digits. Join guest Arick Wierson, Emmy-winning producer and TRR contributor and Shalley as they discuss how the emergence of "Trump majeure" as contractual language signals how deeply trade uncertainty has penetrated corporate planning, forcing executives to treat policy volatility like natural disasters. They analyze how the real crisis will emerge in Q4 when holiday inventory decisions made months earlier collide with tariff reality. Small and medium retailers lack the working capital to front-load inventory or the negotiating power to secure favorable financing terms, while their larger competitors deploy sophisticated hedging strategies. This creates a two-tiered market where scale determines survival, potentially accelerating retail consolidation beyond what digital disruption alone could achieve. The irony is profound: Policies designed to protect American jobs may ultimately destroy the very small businesses that form the backbone of local economies, while benefiting only those retailers with sufficient resources to navigate regulatory complexity.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
The rugby season is heating up with Major League Rugby and the Gallagher Premiership charging toward the playoffs. On this week's episode of The Rugby Rundown, hosts Will Hooley and Alex Corbisiero break down:
True Dual Citizens: Winemakers Severine Pinte & Grant Stanley THE SHOW Severine Pinte – Chief Winemaker, viticulturist and managing partner Le Vieux Pin and LaStella (South Okanagan) This weeks TRR is part of an on-going series highlighting stories of cold snaps, badly damaged vines/vineyards and renewal! Both Le Vieux Pin/La Stella...
Two exclusives in one! With the big news of Antoine Dupont joining RFCLA's ownership group, we have RFCLA's CEO Pete Sickle on the show to talk it all. Why is Dupont joining? What is his role? What is the future like with Dupont now involved? Will this grow rugby in LA & the US? Plus, this week is a MAJOR college event with the inaugural All American all stars showdown between the best in west against the best in the east. Will is joined by head coaches for each side, Andrew Cook & Blake Bradford to discuss the importance of the match, the pathway of college players to becoming USA Eagles and what matchups to watch out for! TRR also brings you up to speed with all the other major news, from USA Women's contracts to the USA Men's 7s getting a new coach!Watch FULL episode for FREE on The Rugby Network
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Guest: Marie Driscoll, a retail analyst, consultant and TRR contributorThe luxury market finds itself at a critical inflection point with industry titan LVMH serving as a perfect case study of resilience buffeted by volatility. As aspirational consumers pull back spending and economic uncertainty prevails, LVMH is making strategic pivots to redefine luxury's trajectory. The recent luxury boom is resetting to sobering realities: price increases, impending tariffs, and the weaking dollar. Join Shelley and Marie Driscoll, a retail analyst, consultant and TRR contributor, as they dive into LVMH's strategies to keep their brands relevant and top of mind for the consumer during a time of major market disruptions. The challenges are steep: LVMH and other luxury powerhouses must reimagine their value propositions by building authentic community through experiential retail. The luxury tool of the future? Digital storytelling that introduces brand essence and value that transcends superficial, fleeting TikTok impressions.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Guests:Michelle Bellanca, CEO and co-founder of Claros Technologies Arick Wierson, Emmy Award-winning producer and TRR contributorThe retail industry faces a transformative reckoning beyond tariffs and supply chain disruptions: PFAS chemicals. These "forever chemicals" are ubiquitous in everything from textiles and cosmetics to food packaging and electronics. What's more, PFAS compounds have infiltrated 99 percent of all humans' bloodstreams. Regulatory frameworks are tightening worldwide, with Europe leading aggressive restrictions while the U.S. market remains primarily litigation driven. Guests Michelle Bellanca, CEO and co-founder of Claros Technologies and Arick Wierson, Emmy Award winning producer and TRR contributor join Shelley with a call to action about this $13 trillion threat to the retail industry. The technology exists to detect and destroy these compounds, and innovative companies can lead rather than react to eradicate PFAS. Consumers will also put pressure on manufacturers to provide PFAS-free products. We are at a critical juncture to reverse the PFAS tide. Listen and learn! For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
THE SHOW Kathy Malone – Winemaker Hillside Winery If you haven’t already heard, April is BC Wine Month. Its also the month that we thank the four sponsors of Tasting Room Radio. When we started TRR the Summer of 2007, we made a pledge about the segment sponsors. If I’m going to talk about...
Ah, the "all killer, no filler" album. Records you can listen to from start to finish without a lull or dip in quality. It's a tougher exercise than one would think, as many of our favorite albums are flawed...perhaps beautifully or purposefully so, but that's not what this episode is about, kids. Joining us for this discussion is Ed Mazzucco and Laura Watling from Portland dream pop/shoegaze band Tears Run Rings. In September 2024, they released their fourth album, Everything In The End. And, true, to this episode's topic, it's a double album ("two hefty boys") that is a front-to-back modern classic., with each side having a distinct tone and feel. Everything In The End is out now of Shelflife Records, which, incidentally, is run by Ed and TRR singer/guitarist Matthew Bice. Since its 1995 roots in a Southern California bedroom, Shelflife has amassed an incredible catalogue of indie pop gems, including highly recommended releases by The Ocean Blue, Close Lobsters, Treasures of Mexico, Acid House Kings, The Caternary Wires, The Shermans, Souvenir, The Luxembourg Signal, Red Sleeping Beauty, Even As We Speak, Jetstream Pony, and much, much more. https://shelflife.com Thanks to Mike Turner from Crashing Through Publicity for the introduction! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Welcome back to The Treatment Room! Today we are BACK for round three with Danielle Hayden, founder of Kickstart Accounting... she's an expert in helping entrepreneurs think about and attain their financial goals. Today we're addressing how you can create a budget, set your small business up for financial success, and choose the entity type that works best for you. Want to work with Danielle's team? Book a discovery call here:Kickstartaccountinginc.com/treatmentroomEsties- Want to sign up with Pomp? Tessa's referral link. Want to shop any products mentioned? Shop here!Enjoy a special code on your first order for TRR listeners:TESSAZPOMP7849Join acne care with me!The Jet-Set (travel-friendly double cleanse set) is out NOW!Save with the double double cleansing bundle.Follow me on IG/ TikTok: @myestytessa @freeskinbytessaMY LINKS https://www.tessaskin.com/servicesSEND ME VOICENOTES! tessaskinconsulting@gmail.commy new food ig: @acnefriendlyfoodShop FreeSKIN by Tessa: www.freeskinbytessa.com Want to retail professional lines without needing to stock inventory yourself? Pomp is my retail success secret! Sign up here.Thank you for listening! I love you!
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Special Guest: Warren Shoulberg, Retail Journalist and TRR WriterConsumer spending is increasingly reflecting personal values. In a disruptive, unpredictable marketplace, the rise of grassroots activism presents unprecedented strategic challenges for retail executives. These orchestrated economic blackouts can transform individual purchasing decisions into collective action, triggering a compromised retail brand reputation with financial implications. While any immediate sales impact is difficult to quantify, brands are still vulnerable. Join Shelley and Warren Shoulberg, retail expert and TRR contributor, as they discuss whether these movements are successful and how the true power of these boycotts may lie in the symbolic expression of shifting the public discourse, particularly fueled by social media. The growing tension between consumer activists and retail brands sits at the heart of the strategic calculus of how the C-suite serves its customers and makes decisions. Now more than ever, retailers need to work harder to earn customer loyalty.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Special Guests: Mickey Alam Khan, CEO of Luxury RoundtablePam Danziger, TRR contributor and founder Unity MarketingThe shift in luxury retail's competitive landscape through the Saks-Neiman Marcus merger could have a domino effect on the operational synergies of both companies, unlocking fundamental questions about the sustainability of the luxury department store model. At stake is the state of personalized luxury retail when longstanding customer relationships and local market expertise are at odds with the impersonal efficiencies of large-scale consolidated operations. As the evolving dynamics of signature, singular brand stores and large multi-brand retailers unfold, it is evident that luxury brand houses are increasingly gaining control their own destiny through direct-to-consumer channels. Join Shelley, Mickey Alam Khan, CEO of Luxury Roundtable, and Pam Danziger, TRR contributor and founder Unity Marketing, as they dive into Richard Baker's acquisition track record and question whether Saks Global can gain strides against global luxury brands which have become its largest competitors. Or is the Saks model the demise of luxury department store retail? For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
In a podcast special The Rugby Rundown 'Rambling' is back and host Will Hooley is joined by one of his fellow broadcasting counterparts. The voice of Major League Rugby and a former CBS Sports lead commentator, Ben Holden gives the American perspective to Round 1 of the Six Nations and looks ahead to Round 2. Will & Ben also preview the upcoming Super Bowl predictions for the Eagles vs. Chiefs, and the transition from NFL to rugby. The conversation shifts to Major League Rugby, with insights on team strategies and player highlights for the upcoming 2025 season. The growth of women's rugby is also addressed, emphasizing its importance in the sport's future. Make sure to go to The Rugby Rundown to catch the full TRR x Football: Super Bowl Special!
Welcome back to The Treatment Room! Today we are BACK for round to with the founders of Clearstem, Danielle Gronich and Kayleigh Christina. Clearstem seeks to combat acne and aging without compromising skin health and overall... end the suffering that comes with skin issues. We talk acne root causes, raw dairy, Creatine, b12, bloodwork and MORE! Enjoy! Shop Clearstem here on my professional Pomp Storefront. About Danielle: A Licensed Clinical Esthetician and the founder of the San Diego Acne Clinic, Danielle is known as "The Acne Guru." About Kayleigh: An Integrative Health Practitioner and Nutritionist who struggled with cystic acne in her 20s. Esties- Want to sign up with Pomp? Tessa's referral link. Want to shop any products mentioned? Shop here! Enjoy a special code on your first order for TRR listeners: TESSAZPOMP7849 Join acne care with me! The Jet-Set (travel-friendly double cleanse set) is out NOW! Save with the double double cleansing bundle. Follow me on IG/ TikTok: @myestytessa @freeskinbytessaMY LINKS https://www.tessaskin.com/services SEND ME VOICENOTES! tessaskinconsulting@gmail.commy new food ig: @acnefriendlyfoodShop FreeSKIN by Tessa: www.freeskinbytessa.com Want to retail professional lines without needing to stock inventory yourself? Pomp is my retail success secret! Sign up here. Thank you for listening! I love you! Trackable UTM Link: https://clearstem.com/thetreatmentroom
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!The Robin Report Experts · Mark A. Cohen, Former Director of Retail Studies at Columbia Business School and Former CEO Sears Canada.· Phil Lempert, SupermarketGuru® expert analyst on consumer behavior, marketing trends, new products and the changing retail landscape.· Jasmine Glasheen, a go-to retail and SaaS content strategist, also well-known for insights on generational purchasing behaviorThe convergence of geopolitical tensions, technological revolution, and changing consumer behaviors are creating strategic challenges and reshaping retail, all which demand immediate C-suite attention. Join Shelley and her roundtable of TRR contributors (Jasmine Glasheen, Mark A. Cohen, and Phil Lempert) as they discuss how to navigate unprecedented disruption and anticipate the short-term future. Listen in to learn how emerging trends suggest a fundamental restructuring of retail economics that will require agile leadership and innovative approaches to maintain competitive advantage.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Welcome back to The Treatment Room! Today we are talking to Shannon Erley, CEO of Pomp Beauty, software built to elevate estheticians. Pomp offers an incredible range of curated professional products that estheticians can retail to their clients virtually. Esties- Want to sign up with Pomp? Tessa's referral link. Want to shop any products mentioned? Shop here! Enjoy a special code on your first order for TRR listeners: TESSAZPOMP7849 Join acne care with me! The Jet-Set (travel-friendly double cleanse set) is out NOW! Save with the double double cleansing bundle. Follow me on IG/ TikTok: @myestytessa @freeskinbytessa MY LINKS https://www.tessaskin.com/services SEND ME VOICENOTES! tessaskinconsulting@gmail.com my new food ig: @acnefriendlyfood Shop FreeSKIN by Tessa: www.freeskinbytessa.com Want to retail professional lines without needing to stock inventory yourself? Pomp is my retail success secret! Sign up here. Thank you for listening! I love you!
Episode 290: Happy New Year, TRR listeners! In this episode, Nat dives into her love for goal-setting, reflecting on her 2024 goals and habits while sharing what she stuck to and lessons learned. With only 9-12% of people actually keeping their New Year's resolutions, Nat offers practical advice on setting goals you can achieve, breaking them down into manageable steps, and finding real motivation behind them. She explores the difference between resolutions and dreams, the importance of writing goals down, and why it's fun to set goals with others—hello, vision boarding night! Nat also shares her personal goals and habits for 2025 and emphasizes the value of progress tracking and embracing failure. Tune in to get inspired and start your year strong! Leave Nat a voicemail! https://www.speakpipe.com/Therealreelpodcast Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. This show wouldn't be possible without our incredible sponsors. Check out these deals just for you: Shopify - Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel. Earnin - When you download the EarnIn app type in Real Reel under PODCAST when you sign up Prolon - Prolon is offering The Real Reel listeners 15% off their 5-day nutrition program for your post-holiday glow up when you go to prolon.comlife/realreel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!As we enter 2025, what's the imperative for retail going forward? We've identified three key shifts that are shaping the future of retail. Join Shelley in a review of Retail Unwrapped podcast highlights that preview retail things to come. In hot topics of the moment, tariffs are top of mind for CEOs and CFOs and retail leadership is anticipating uncertain changes with the new administration. The industry faces a pivotal moment as tariff policies create a complex economic balancing act between manufacturing costs at home and consumer price surging for global sourcing. Discover more with Bayard Winthrop, Founder and CEO American Giant and Arick Wierson, award-winning journalist and TRR contributor in a Post-Election Recap for Retail. AI is raising its head, a sleeping giant with integration emerging as the defining factor separating market leaders from laggards. Its impact on the retail industry will be broad and deep and brands that stay ahead of the technology and implement AI strategies that resonate with their target markets are better positioned to win. Learn more with The Next Frontier: Agentic AI Smart Shopping; The AI-Powered Merchant: Creativity Meets Retail Technology; and the Future of Retail Returns: Automation Meets Human Intelligence.Effective retail leadership will shift as it adopts modern skillsets and strategies to manage a disruptive marketplace. Find out what right stuff is required to win with customers and an evolving workforce: Behind the CEO Curtain: What Modern Leadership Really Looks Like; Succession Planning in Retail…Pepsi Has It Right Four Female CEOs with Unique Retail Strategies; and John Venhuizen, President and CEO of Ace Hardware: A 2024 Crave Retail Radical.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
The Pirates discuss the Susan G. Komen 60 Mile Walk in Dallas, Texas... the good, the bad and the ugly. Spoiler Alert: The Pirates already signed up to do the 60 mile walk again in 2025 - this time in Boston on August 15-17. Additional walkers are encouraged to join the Pink Pirate Team (links to sign up are below). Please use referral link on the specific pages to sign up, as that contributes to the overall fundraising amount! Or reach out to the Pirates individually to discuss participating and/or how to sign up. Donations can be submitted at any of the links below, as well. On behalf of all the Pink Pirate team members, we cannot thank you enough for your support! Shawna's page (to donate or sign up to walk) - https://www.the3day.org/site/TR/2024/20253Day?px=8306872&pg=personal&fr_id=2322 Adrienne's page (to donate or sign up to walk) - https://www.the3day.org/site/TRR/2024/20253Day/442494270?pg=ptype&fr_id=2322 Denise's page (to donate or sign up to walk) - https://www.the3day.org/site/TRR/2024/20253Day/32232820?pg=ptype&fr_id=2322
欢迎收听雪球出品的财经有深度，雪球，国内领先的集投资交流交易一体的综合财富管理平台，聪明的投资者都在这里。今天分享的内容叫低估值策略长期有效！来自点拾投资。公募基金教父约翰博格曾经说过，在美国公募基金过去60年的历史上，真正被称得上明星基金经理的只有三个人：彼得林奇，比尔米勒以及约翰涅夫。当然，他说这句话的时候是2008年金融危机之前，没有看到比尔米勒的滑铁卢。约翰涅夫可以说是被许多人低估的投资大师。他管理的温莎基金从1964到1995年，取得了13.7%年化回报率，并且将这只基金从7500万规模做到了136亿（美元）规模。今天重新纪念这位伟大的低估值策略投资大师。一、关于约翰涅夫的投资方法约翰涅夫1931年出生于俄亥俄州，33岁那年被Wellington资产聘用为基金经理，管理他们新发行的温莎基金。这只基金在70年代初被并入到约翰博格早期的先锋基金中。约翰涅夫是专业投资人眼中的专业人士。许多基金经理都来申购涅夫管理的温莎基金。约翰涅夫从1964年开始管理温莎基金，一直到1995年他64岁的时候退休。期间，温莎基金的年化回报率13.7%，年化超出基准3.5%（扣除费用后超出基准年化3.15%）。更难得的是，在三十一年基金经理生涯中，涅夫有22次战胜市场。涅夫写过一本书，相信许多人看过。和彼得林奇不同的书，涅夫的投资方法是有具体量化指标的。他投资中最核心的一点是买入低估值的股票。在后来的访谈中，涅夫谈到许多人把他看做逆向投资者，其实他并非如此。他觉得自己更应该是一个“低估值”投资者，很多时候正因为逆向，公司才有可能出现极低的估值。在涅夫做基金经理的时候，正好是漂亮五十表现最好的那段时期（漂亮五十是指上世纪70年代美国股市中，备受市场追捧的50只蓝筹股）。而且漂亮五十的泡沫持续了很长时间。但是他坚持不买高估值的热门股。涅夫从来不会买估值超过40倍的股票。在退休后的一次访谈中，约翰.涅夫说低估值策略是简单有效的。他的组合整体估值水平是市场的50%到60%，不需要成为一个魔术师来实现这个目标。有人问，你怎么看价值策略和低估值策略时，涅夫的回答很有意思：价值是各花入个眼，但是低估值是能简单计算和定义的。涅夫有一个总回报比例的公式TRR，这个公式思想上和P E G公式类似，但更看重低估值：它是盈利增长+分红率除以市盈率。涅夫会寻找那些TRR比例超过市场两倍的股票。比如标普五百的TRR比例是0.7，他就会找1.4倍TRR的股票。比如一个公司的盈利增速12%，分红率2%，市盈率10倍。这家公司的TRR就是12加2除10=1.4倍。涅夫会寻找那些持续盈利增长，但并不是很快的公司。典型的公司盈利和收入五年增速在7%到25%之间，低于7%增速太慢了，高于25%往往要付出过高的估值。涅夫还有一个特点，就是持股比较分散。温莎基金对于绝大多数股票的持仓都在1%左右，他认为除非股票到了极端便宜的价格，他才会买入5%的仓位，这也是他持有单一股票最大的仓位。在股票市值上，他没有太大偏好，大盘，中盘，小盘都买。因为价值投资的风格，他不会买热门股，喜欢从创五十二周新低的股票中去买入。在生活中他也有很强烈的价值投资者特质，为人谦逊低调，生活朴素，而且大量的阅读。这一点和巴菲特，芒格都非常类似。二、涅夫投资法则的思考：价值因子暴露重新去思考约翰涅夫的投资方法，给我最大的启发是结合了自己对于Smart Beta的理解，发现涅夫投资法则中最大的超额收益来自于对价值因子的暴露。价值因子本身是Smart Beta中一个非常普遍和重要的部分。约翰涅夫对于投资的标的，有能够量化的选股数据和模式，而且可复制性较强。有量化团队，根据涅夫的选股策略做过一个动态调整的组合，过去十年这个组合在美股的年化收益率超过了22%。关于价值因子，我之前也看过大量的研究，在百年美股历史上看，价值因子的回报率是最高的。不仅仅是回报率高，价值因子的回撤也更小，夏普比例超过了其他所有的因子。更有意思的是，虽然越来越多人发现了价值因子的有效性，但这种策略并不拥挤。成为了难得长期有效的投资方法。在A股市场，价值因子过去10年的回报率也非常高，甚至超过了海外。由于投资者结构的散户化，市场波动率较大，大部分人喜欢赚短期交易和博弈的钱，长期价值发现并不拥挤。甚至在某些年份，大量投资者并不关注上市公司的财报情况，而是在打听小道消息，管理层诉求等等。从再一次对于约翰涅夫的研究中发现，价值因子的效应需要通过时间发挥最大效应。约翰涅夫做了30年以上的基金经理，一直做到了60多岁。在时间的复利中，价值投资的模式让他成为美国历史上最伟大的公募基金经理之一。同时，价值因子需要投资人非常严格的执行力。因为短期买入后股票大概率继续下跌，短期卖出后股票大概率继续上涨。约翰涅夫在漂亮50的泡沫前，一直忍耐了很多年。强大的内心，对于价值投资的100%相信，最终是投资上的知行合一。更重要的是，全世界的价值投资者总有一些共性的地方：谦虚，勤奋，朴素，低调。价值投资者最大的源动力来自正确的价值观。
The Rugby Rundown is back for a new season, so to kick things off we talk about the new 2025 MLR Season. Schedule is out! MLR CEO, Nic Benson, comes on to discuss the some of the new format, aims for MLR, potential new Championship Final venue and more. The boys crack into ‘Things You've Missed' including USA Eagles action, Gallagher Premiership, Premiership Women's Rugby & college rugby. Check out some of the new features including ‘Tackling Topics' (why are South Africa the best team in the world?) and ‘Rundown Top 5'. Go and SUBSCRIBE to TRR's YouTube channel to catch more content. Make sure you SUBSCRIBE to TRN+ for all the rugby action on TRN.
Going smaller to go bigger might sound counter-intuitive, but this mindset helped Tyler Rossi transform his newly launched recruitment business from zero to $250k revenue! In this episode, you will hear Tyler's approach to niching down and the strategies that helped him win the majority of inbound clients and establish himself as one of the leading authorities in the metals and steel recruitment industry. Tyler is the President of American Dream Search and Host of The Recruiter of Steel podcast. He's one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel and Metals Industry. Tyler's story is one of determination and success in the face of adversity, and I'm excited to dive into his experiences and insights today. Episode Outline and Highlights [01:55] How Tyler got into recruitment and why he chose metals as a niche. [08:07] Tyler's story of resilience - getting laid off from a six-digit sales job while his wife was 32 weeks pregnant. [12:44] Difficulties of the first six months of a recruitment business and how niching down became a game-changer. [17:37] Getting the first client via LinkedIn Automation - Tyler shares his tech stack. [20:17] Turning it around from zero to $250k - discussion on business development. [23:53] How to establish yourself as the go-to authority in your niche. [30:57] Podcasting is an effective engagement tool to go above and beyond. [38:39] A creative way of using videos to promote your client and strengthen relationships. [43:55] Work and life integration: How many hours does Tyler work a day to take care of their daughter? [46:01] What is next for Tyler and American Dream Search? Go Smaller to Go Bigger - Top Benefits of Niching Down to a Specific Industry When Tyler attempted to broaden his scope as a sales recruiter - he felt overwhelmed and things did not work out. He recalled how he already established his network in the steel industry and decided to focus on this niche. It was indeed a game-changer for Tyler! His conclusion is “The riches are in the niches!” He highlighted below benefits and how niching down worked for him: Reduced Competition: By focusing on the steel industry, he reduced his competition from 26,000 recruiters in the US to only around five competitors in the same industry in his domain. Authority Building: It was easier for Tyler to add value to the industry and be an established figure in the steel industry through continuous sharing of content and podcasting. Higher Demand: Targeting a specialized industry can lead clients to view you as a high-value resource, as you bring industry-specific knowledge and connections. Even if you only place 10 candidates in a year with an average of $25k fee, you already have substantial revenue. Efficient Networking: Focusing on a niche simplifies networking efforts. Tyler concentrates on key decision-makers and candidates via targeted marketing and MPC. How to Establish Yourself as the Go-To Expert in Your Niche Tyler's reputation grew as he focused on the metal and steel sector, allowing him to generate trust and recognition in the metals industry. He started his podcast, The Recruiter of Steel, to bring added value to the industry. He also utilized LinkedIn by consistently posting content related to the industry which has gained traction, especially to decision-makers. Out of his 7000 connections, around 75% are in the metal and steel industry. Consistency in these actions made Tyler a recognizable authority in his niche. As he shared, “As far as an ROI … I would say the majority of my business now, I would say is inbound. Most of it is coming inbound to me. I haven't run an MPC campaign in probably three, or four months because all of this is coming to me and I have enough business with it. It's because I've established myself as that authority. It's brought in multiple six figures for me just doing posting and just interacting on LinkedIn.” Other Action Items That Turned Around His Business The first six months of Tyler's business brought in no revenue. However, he had a breakthrough that transformed it from zero to a $250k profit. That is niching down, and establishing himself as an authority. However, there are also other action items he shared that helped him, which I am sure a lot of listeners can relate to: Full Commitment and Resilience: When Tyler was laid off, he committed entirely to his recruitment business, even though it took six months of effort without income to gain traction. Mentorship and Continuous Learning: Seeking guidance, Tyler connected with Scott Tuttle, a successful recruiter who provided critical advice on areas like contract terms and marketing strategies. This mentorship helped Tyler refine his approach, close deals, and streamline his operations. Effective Use of Technology: Tyler used a tailored tech stack, including LinkedIn automation through Skylead, Sales Navigator, Apollo for marketing, and Crelate for CRM management. These tools allowed him to be targeted and efficient in his outreach, helping him reach the right clients and candidates without resorting to mass emails. Tyler Rossi Bio and Contact Info Tyler Rossi is the President of American Dream Search and Host of the Let's Talk Talent podcast (now rebranded as The Recruiter of Steel podcast). He is one of the top headhunters in America for sales talent in the Steel/Metals Industry. But it wasn't always this way. For the longest time, Tyler put off going into business full-time. While he had his LLC on the side, Tyler never had the guts to go all in. He had the six-figure tech sales job and the job security and benefits that came with it. He had the house, and the marriage, and his daughter was soon on the way. Fast forward to September of 2023, Tyler was forced to take the leap of faith he was putting off for so long. He was abruptly laid off from his job. There was no warning, no severance…nothing. Six-figure paycheck? Poof
Look who's on a Roll - It's this week's guest, Author Luke Whittall Luke and his Sipster's Pocket Guides Books. In the third volume in the popular Sipster's Pocket Guide series, wine expert and educator Luke Whittall presents his latest top 50 British Columbia wines under $50 (including many under $30) and along the way shares his thoughts on wine country and common misconceptions about certain grapes, and offers up tangents on everything from scented candles to middle children to jazz hands. With food and activity pairings that range from Thai noodles and pool noodles to classic rock and hootenannies, and an index of attitudes that lets you choose a wine based on your mood (come hither, dressed to kill, razzle-dazzle), the Sipster's guides are equal parts freewheeling and focused. Divided into chapters on sparkling, white, rosé, red, and dessert wines, the latest volume of Sipster's will snap you out of a catatonic funk in the liquor store and stick around for a quiet evening paging through a book—perhaps this book and perhaps there's even a wine for that. Welcome to Volume 3, where a Viognier can be a lot like a bouncy castle, a red blend that is the icing on top of another layer of icing and also a wine that will upstage Taylor Swift and Kayne and an adventurous evening calls for a certain Trebianno (not the guy from Friends . . . but then again, maybe?). The Sipsters series are written in language anyone can understand. Words we all use and can remember a day later. Make no mistake, Luke knows his wines from the vineyards to the bottle. He just makes the journey much easier than it really is. We also start TRR with a conversation about vineyard damage & recovery, plus the coming discovery of BC Wines made with Washington grapes. So those damaged vineyards, wineries and wine-farming families can survive the next couple of years. And heads UP - The Sipster's Ontario Vol 2 is coming - just in time for Christmas. Then surely, the Luke Whittall film starring Ryan Reynolds. Www.sipsterswinepodcast.ca/books Luke Whittall Online: The Sipster's Wine Podcast - Sipsters Icons on Substack WWW. Books: "The Sipster's Pocket Guide to 50 More Must-Try BC Wines, Volume 3" 2024 (Touchwood Editions) "The Sipster's Pocket Guide to 50 Must-Try Ontario Wines, Volume 1" 2023 (Touchwood Editions) "The Sipster's Pocket Guide to 50 Must-Try BC Wines, Volume 2" 2023 (Touchwood Editions) "The Sipster's Pocket Guide to 50 Must-Try BC Wines, Volume 1" 2021 (Touchwood Editions) "The Okanagan Wine Tour Guide" 6th Edition (with John Schreiner) 2020 (Touchwood Editions) "Valleys of Wine: A Taste of British Columbia's Wine History" 2019 (Whitecap Books)
We'd love to have your feedback and ideas for future episodes of Retail Unwrapped. Just text us!Guests: Warren Shoulberg, TRR contributor, award-winning journalist, consultant for the retailing and home furnishings industries.Brian Delp, President of Sales and Licensing, Himatsingka America.The pandemic reshaped the home industry, with a shift towards home upgrades over new purchases. Join Shelley, Warren, and Brian as they discuss shifting consumer and market trends, supply chain disruptions and their impact on the current state of the home furnishings and retail sectors. Driven by high interest rates and a tightening housing market, revenge travel is out, home decor is in, and traceability is more important than ever. Consumers are now more focused on smaller, more affordable home décor updates. The conversation also addresses looming port strikes, which could significantly disrupt the already strained supply chain and disrupt Holiday 2024.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Today we delve deep into the fascinating world of the placebo effect, exploring its implications in medical treatments and the ethics surrounding its use. Dr. Helena Hartman, a neuroscientist, joins the show to talk about how expectations can significantly influence treatment outcomes. Hartman shares her research insights into pain, empathy and placebo and the importance of expectation in driving placebo effects. We also talk about the work being done by the Treatment and Expectations group uncovering the complex interplay between expectation, treatment efficacy, and the ethical dilemmas that arise when discussing placebo in a clinical context. Hartman emphasizes the importance of transparent communication with patients regarding the use of placebos and the potential benefits they can offer when patients are informed about their effects. We also discuss the challenges posed by wellness influencers who may mislead the public into thinking that they can heal themselves through mental power alone, neglecting the necessity of real medical interventions. Hartman highlights the importance of finding a balance between promoting the benefits of medical treatments and avoiding the pitfalls of over-hyping the placebo effect, especially in the age of misinformation.Finally we take an intriguing examination of side effects and their unexpected role in enhancing the efficacy of treatments. Hartman discusses a study showing that mild side effects from placebos can actually boost the perceived effectiveness of treatment, tying back to the central theme of expectation. This leads to a broader conversation on the implications for future medical practices, particularly in the realm of psychedelics, where the challenges of maintaining placebo control are complex. This is the only link you need to subscirbe and never miss an episode of Two Brad For You. Please do rate and review it really helps us out.If you'd like to support the show with currency click here. We are grateful for that too. Finally, you can check out the website here.Many thanks to Freak Motif for the music and Sebastian Abboud for the logo. Side-effects are often a curse. Can they also be a blessing? Accessible scientific results and exciting fictional stories in one.What can psychedelic drugs teach us about placebo-controlled trials?Treatment and Expectations Group - Find out and join in / TRR 289
Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/XKwF1N--a00For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as lay leaders at Lakepointe Church, a megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area pastored by Josh Howerton. But as concerns about Howerton grew, Patrick and Mary found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now, they're dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called “church refugees” feel. In this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Mary DeMuth joins host Julie Roys to talk about navigating church bewilderment. This is a condition more and more Christians are experiencing today, as scandal and corruption are increasingly seeping into the church. And if you caught the previous TRR podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lakepointe Church. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How much is okay to say, and what is gossip? How do you find another church home when you're dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? These are crucial questions, which Mary—an internationally known author and a repeat speaker at our Restore Conference—admits she is wrestling with. And, as is so characteristic of Mary, she engages these questions with grace, wisdom, and a passion for truth and justice. Sadly, many churches have created a culture where it's not okay to talk about leaving a toxic church. But as Mary explains in this podcast, the church won't get better until we talk about it. Believers must begin to evaluate and process the toxicity in churches—and how we can truly become the Body of Christ. Mary has recently developed a Church Hurt Checklist to help people understand their situation and begin to process and articulate it. Download it free at marydemuth.com/churchhurt Guests Mary DeMuth Mary DeMuth is an international speaker, podcaster, and author of over 40 books, fiction and nonfiction, including The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible and We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis. Mary lives in Texas with her husband of 30+ years and is mom to three adult children. Learn more at MaryDeMuth.com. Show Transcript Julie Roys: For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as leaders at a megachurch in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But as concerns about the current pastor grew, they found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now they’re dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called church refugees feel. Julie Roys: Welcome to The Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today, Mary DeMuth joins me to talk about navigating church bewilderment. Sadly, this is an issue many Christians are dealing with, as abuse, scandal, and corruption increasingly seem to be seeping into the church. Julie Roys: And if you caught our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lake Point Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, where Josh Howerton is Pastor. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. And if you missed our prior podcast, it was a real eye-opener and I encourage you to go back and listen to that. Julie Roys: Today’s podcast is a sequel to my podcast with Amanda, but rather than exposing the issues at Lake Point today, Mary is going to be discussing the aftermath of leaving. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How do you know how much is okay to say? And what is gossip? And how do you find another church home when you’re dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? Julie Roys: These are crucial questions and ones that I know many of you are dealing with today. And so I’m so looking forward to diving into this topic with Mary DeMuth. But first I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Talbot Seminary and Marquardt of Barrington. Julie Roys: Are you passionate about impacting the world so it reflects biblical ideals of justice? The Talbot School of Theology Doctor of Ministry program is launching a new track exploring the theological, social, and practical dimensions of biblical justice today. The program equips students with the knowledge, skills, and spiritual foundation needed to address social issues with wisdom and compassion. Julie Roys: Justice has become a key issue in our culture, but more importantly, it’s an issue that’s close to God’s heart. While it’s clear the Bible calls God’s people to pursue justice, we must be guided by His Word within that pursuit. Talbot has created this track to do just that. As part of this program, you’ll examine issues such as trafficking, race, immigration, and poverty. Julie Roys: And I’ll be teaching a session as well, focusing on the right use of power in our churches so we can protect the vulnerable, rather than harm them. So join me and a community of like-minded scholars committed to social change and ethical leadership. Apply now at TALBOT.EDU/DMIN. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and quality. That's because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys: Again, joining me is Christian author and podcaster, Mary DeMuth, and many of Mary from her excellent books like We Too: Discussing the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the Church, and also her memoir, Thin Places. Mary also was a guest speaker at our last Restore Conference in 2022, and she’ll be speaking again at our Restore Conference in Phoenix in February in 2025. So we’re super looking forward to that. Julie Roys: But she joins me now to talk about something that’s been a very painful process for both her and Patrick, and that is leaving her church of 23 years, Lake Point Church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So Mary, Thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know has been a really difficult journey. Mary DeMuth: Thanks. I certainly prayed about this conversation and what I’ve noticed in this space is that a lot of people in the middle of it. are not articulating how they’re feeling because there’s this general pressure from churches that you leave that you aren’t supposed to say anything. And I think there’s a difference between, and we’ll talk about this, I’m sure, throughout this episode, but there’s a difference between leaving quietly and running around gossiping about things. Certainly, those are two different things. Mary DeMuth: But I think what we’ve done is we’ve created a culture of silence; you can’t talk about it and literally we won’t get better unless we do talk about it. So that’s one reason why I am having this conversation today, because this is not a completed story. This is a messy story. I’m in the middle of it. Mary DeMuth: I am heartbroken, and I don’t have all the answers. But I wanted to give word to those of you that may be in that same space, that may be hurting and don’t have words to say about it. And maybe I can articulate some of those things for you. Julie Roys: And I so appreciate that. I find that people often are willing to talk about experiences years after the fact, when they’ve worked it all out and they can tie it all up in a neat bow and we can all go, Oh, that’s so nice. And here’s three ways that you can apply this message. But I knew you were going through a really painful thing that it was messy. You’ve been tweeting about it, or I should say posting on X. Julie Roys: You’ve been very open and honest with your pain. And I really appreciate that. And I love the topic. You actually gave me the title for this, about navigating church bewilderment. And I love that word bewilderment because I feel like it really captures the confusion, the real disillusionment, and then the grief and the pain. Julie Roys: All of these things bound up in one. And so we’re going to get to all that and unpack all of that. But I think to understand the depth of it for you and for Patrick, first I have to understand how deeply vested you were in this church. So talk about what this church has meant to you over more than two decades and the roles that you played in it and the community that you had. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we’ve been there for 23 years, and we immediately started serving the moment we landed there. And we also were the first non-IMB, it was an SBC church at the time, and we were the first non-IMB missionaries to be sent out from Lake Point. Julie Roys: Define IMB for those who . Mary DeMuth: Yes. International mission board. So typically SBC churches send, they don’t really send their own missionaries. They sponsor IMB because all the money comes out of the SBC into this fund for the International Mission Board. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted to be actually supported because we believed that people who paid prayed. And so we were not IMB, but Lake Point sent us out. So we were church planters in the South of France for a couple of years. And honestly the leadership there at our church, even though we weren’t going through our church, they were the ones that helped us through a really untenable situation. And our loyalty to that church was because they put us back together when we got back from the field.. Mary DeMuth: So much pouring in and so much love. And so we have been a life group leader for 20 of the 23 years. The only three years we weren’t was when we were in France, planting a church. And then I have run a couple of conferences, interestingly enough, called the Re-story Conference, which was very similar sounding to the Restore Conference. Mary DeMuth: And I also recorded a Life Way study at Lake Point for an audience. And then my husband was an elder at the church for five years. And so we have led mission teams all over the world for Lake Point. We have definitely been in the upper levels of volunteer leadership all these years and have enjoyed a lot of conviviality and fellowship. Mary DeMuth: And I never never. I always bragged about my church. It never crossed my mind that there would be a day that I wasn’t at that church anymore. And so as of December of 2023, we are away from there and making our way into a new space. Julie Roys: And I’ve talked about this on this podcast, but we’re in a house church with, some of the folks in our house church were at their previous church for over 30 years, and the amount of pain and loss and especially when you’re, when you’re our age, early 40s. Julie Roys: That’s it. It’s early 40s. No, when you’re a little bit older and later in life and to be at this point where you’re starting over is not at all where you expected to be, and it’s pretty tough to be there. You retain some of the friendships, but everything’s changed. And it just makes for a really really difficult road that you never planned to be on. Julie Roys: Your church; and this is a lot of the reason behind you leaving, changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Stephen Stroop was your previous pastor. And in 2019, I believe Josh Howerton came in. Your husband actually was on the elder board that approved him, right? Mary DeMuth: Yes. Yes. And we’ve had to work through that as you can imagine, because that’s painful to think about. And just to expand a little bit about the why is the basic reasons why we left. There’s a lot of things. As an author, as a published author and as a speaker, the plagiarism was just grating on me and I couldn’t stomach it, but that wasn’t the main reason. Mary DeMuth: Although it’s still very problematic to me. What’s more problematic is that they don’t think it’s a big deal and they don’t see it as sin, and I just disagree. But the two things that we, the two main things that caused us to walk away, one was we were told by leadership, by upper-level leadership, that there was no place for us to serve. Mary DeMuth: And that was really, that was about a year ago. And so it took us about a year to make that decision. Like we were still serving in our life group, but there were things that God has put in us as church planters. And as me, as an author and an advocate that we have a lot that we would love to be able to offer, and to have that cut off when we feel like we’re in the prime of service right now. We weren’t asking to be paid. This is all volunteer, but we were told we couldn’t. Mary DeMuth: And then the second thing that was kind of the straw was all of the crude words and the misogynistic statements that started around 2022 almost every sermon. And as an advocate for sexual abuse victims and as an advocate for women, I could no longer be associated with that church because it just didn’t, I just couldn’t be associated with it. Mary DeMuth: I have stood in front of the Southern Baptist Convention, and I have spoken and advocated, and I have been chewed up and spit out for it. And if I’m going to a church that is marginalizing women, it does not make sense. And so no place for us to serve, big, huge problem. And then I just couldn’t be connected with a church that had that kind of reputation. Julie Roys: Those reasons are huge. and make an awful lot of sense. The plagiarism as you said, the crude remarks, the misogynistic remarks. And for a lot of folks, if you’re like, what are they talking about? I do encourage you to go back and listen to our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, where we went over a lot of these things that Mary’s talking about that have happened in her church. Julie Roys: I’m sure there’s people listening, and they’re like, okay, that sounds really, really awful. But how do you know when you hit that tipping point? Because I remember talking to you a couple of years ago and me going, Hey, is this really your pastor? I’m seeing some stuff. How is this your pastor? And you’re like we’re serving, and we love our life group. I get it. I totally, totally get it. But how did you and Patrick, how did you get to the point where you’re like, this is the tipping point, no more? Mary DeMuth: We decided we went into this together, so we decided that we both had to have the same decision. We weren’t going to have one of us leave and one not leave. We were going to do this together. So that took a year of a lot of conversations. And we saw those red flags when you saw them. So we’ve seen them, but as you mentioned, the model of Lake Point used to be, it seems to be shifting now, but it used to be church within a church. And so your life group was really basically what you’re doing, Julie. It’s a small gathering of people where there is someone who teaches, and there’s someone who’s the missions coordinator. And there’s someone who, it’s that’s how, like your church is that group. And so we felt a deep, strong connection to our group. And we felt like we were the pastors of that church within a church. Mary DeMuth: The model has shifted. And I don’t know, it has never been articulated publicly, but it seems from the exterior looking in that it’s more becoming a franchise model, which is where you create this mother church, and it can be duplicated like MacDonald’s in any context. Therefore they may not have that idea that it is church within a church anymore. It has to be something replicatable on all other campuses. And so we began to see this shifting of, this is no longer church within a church, which is really what kept us there. We had people we were serving. And then honestly, I just couldn’t stomach sermons anymore. I couldn’t walk into that building anymore. Mary DeMuth: And as everything became a spectacle the longer we were there, it was all about Sunday morning and the spectacle that it had become like a circus, and I could not find Jesus there. And I would sit in the audience. We had beautifully. articulated and performed auto-tuned worship. It was beautiful. It sounded amazing. There was a lot of rah-rah-rah. There was a lot of energy and it felt like Ichabod to me, like to me as a Christ follower, a mature Christ follower of many years, I couldn’t feel the presence of the Lord anymore. And for me, that’s what is the point of going to a church, if that has happened to you? Mary DeMuth: I’m not saying that other people aren’t experiencing the Lord there. I’m not saying that other people aren’t becoming Christians there. They are. And that’s probably the most problematic part of this whole thing is that they are easily able to point to numbers that are flowing in through the front door, ignoring all of us that have left out the back door. Mary DeMuth: And because it is successful, therefore they can just call me names and malign me or people like Amanda and others, and they can dismiss us because look what God is doing. Julie Roys: And Amanda talked about that same thing about the church within a church and even how each of the churches had different women’s ministries. Julie Roys: And I think about it, it was so personal because people are different and they all had different campuses, have different makeup, they have different cultures and now, this franchise model where you go in, you order a Big Mac, and you get a Big Mac. That’s what you’re used to, right? Julie Roys: But is it? And probably our conversation today, we probably don’t have enough time to really delve into this, but this is something I have been thinking more and more about, is it even church if you have a place where it, maybe a Christian organization and maybe a Christian organization that blesses a lot of people but is it a church where you say to members of the body, we don’t need you, we don’t need your gift, and you can’t serve here? If we have a pastor who doesn’t even know people’s names, if we don’t have that kind of shepherding, is it even a church anymore? Mary DeMuth: I’ll back up before I answer that in that I’ve, been overseas and, anyone that’s been overseas and gone to a McDonald’s overseas knows they have different categories. So even franchises like McDonald’s in France has McWine, right? Or McVine. McDonald’s even understands contextualizing the hamburger to the person, and to the people. So that’s an odd thing for me that there would be this idea that you can just, this is the model and we’re superimposing it on all sorts of different economic people and people in different cultures, and we’re just gonna superimpose it there, which seems super weird to me. Mary DeMuth: On the, is this a church? We have to just go back to simplicity, which is, are we celebrating the Lord’s Supper? Are there sacraments there? Is the word of God being delivered and is it? Mary DeMuth: And then deeper than that, are disciples being made? because there’s a big, huge difference between converts who hear something. And I think about the parable of the soils, they hear it, they receive it with joy, they have no root and then they walk away. We’re not teaching a theology of suffering in most of these bigger churches for sure. Mary DeMuth: But I think we need to remember that a church is supposed to be a place of koinonia, a place of fellowship, a place where we are iron sharpening iron, and a place of discipleship where people are not just converted, but they are just doing the slow work of people pouring into each other’s lives. That’s discipleship. That’s not a top-down model. That’s not pastor to congregation. That’s person to person. And when a church gets so big for its britches these things can fall through the cracks. Mary DeMuth: Now, Lake Point had done a very good job of doing that discipleship piece through their vehicle of a life group. But as things have shifted, we’re seeing a lot less of that. And again, I haven’t been there for six months, so they could be doing it. I don’t know, but just from my perspective today that’s something that’s been difficult to see. Julie Roys: You alluded to this earlier, this idea of leaving well. It’s hard to leave well and even to define what leaving well is. I will say there was one church that my husband and I ended up leaving and it was over a theological disagreement that we just felt we couldn’t bend on. And at the same time, we felt really pulled to another church. They actually had us come up and explain why we were leaving and gathered around us and prayed for us. Julie Roys: That was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen where it was just like, differences and God makes calling you here. We want to bless you as you go. And you’ve met a lot to this church and we mean a lot to each other and let’s just bless each other. It was so beautiful, and I don’t know why this can’t happen more. But usually it’s just a lot of pain and a lot of heartache And when you talk about leaving well, what it usually means to a lot of people, and I’ve heard even Christian leaders talk about this. When you leave well, you just keep your stuff to yourself. Julie Roys: The issues that you had, you suck them under, and you don’t speak about it. And honestly, I think that’s part of our problem in the church is that we don’t talk about our problems. And so we wait till they become a major scandal or crisis. And then they really blow up. And we allow abusive pastors just kind of reign; to continue doing what they’re doing. Julie Roys: So talk about this concept of leaving well. Obviously, you’ve chosen to speak rather boldly about what happened there. I think really from a heart of love and concern for both the church and the people there, not just to vent how you’re feeling. But talk about that and how you’ve come to the decision you have about that. Mary DeMuth: First, I’ll say there’s been kind of an unholy silence. We were pretty high up and we have not been followed up with, and the very few times we were invited into those spaces, it was difficult. So there is that. I would encourage church leaders to do what your former church did, because I think there’s a lot to be learned. Mary DeMuth: I also need to say that we didn’t leave from a position of canceling and of immaturity. There’s one thing if you’re like a church hopper and you’re like, just running around with a consumeristic mindset like, what do I get in this for me? A lot of people that are leaving churches are being accused of being that. But the ones that I know that have left this church are mature, deep believers in Christ who are seeing so many red flags. Mary DeMuth: And the reason I articulated it was because I was running into people who were brokenhearted and didn’t have words for it. And somehow through the grace of God and through his power and his ability, I was able to say the things that people were feeling so that they would no longer feel alone. I would rather have been silent if the Lord hadn’t put his hand on me. Mary DeMuth: I would rather grieve this alone and quietly, but I have seen a lot of really good conversation and ministry happen because of this. I’m not out to harm the reputation of the church. I will never tell someone to leave a church unless they’re being abused, obviously, that’s their own decision. Mary DeMuth: They have the autonomy to make that decision between them and God. But I do want to be a listening ear and an empath for those who are bewildered at the church they’re going to that no longer looks like the church they used to go to. Julie Roys: So tell me what is gossip because this is what is, this is the word, I’ve gotten called this myriads and myriads of times. But what is gossip? And clearly you don’t believe this falls into that category. Why? Mary DeMuth: It’s not gossip to share your emotions about how you’re reacting to an abuse. That is actually being a lot like Paul. And if you look at the letters throughout the epistles in particular, you see Paul saying things about churches. Mary DeMuth: And so if we’re going to talk about gossip, we’d have to call him a gossip because he was constantly calling out, Hey, listen, those Judaizers, they don’t really have it right. Oh, listen, this Gnosticism isn’t good. And that guy’s having sex with his mother-in-law. These kinds of things are, he’s very clear. Mary DeMuth: These are not untrue things he’s saying. These are actually true statements. And underneath all of that is a desire for the church to be the body of Christ and to be holy. It’s not slander because it’s telling the truth. And it’s always with a desire to see God do good work in the local church. And if she is straying, if you love her, you will say something about it. Mary DeMuth: Now there’s a manner in which you can do that. You can be really caustic. You can speak the truth without love, but we are called to speak the truth with love. And I believe that we have conflagrated speaking the truth in love with gossip, and those are two different things. Gossip intends to harm the reputation of another or of an entity; telling the truth in love tries to help that institution have a mirror and see what’s going on. Julie Roys: The motive is really important, although I always get frustrated when people try to judge other people’s motives because the truth is, you don’t know somebody else’s heart. And that’s something I never do. I’ll talk about actions, but I don’t know someone’s heart. Only God knows the heart. But I know that’s something I constantly check myself about is my desire for repentance? is my desire to see these leaders repent? 100 percent, and I know you well enough to know that you would be absolutely thrilled and would extend grace if the leaders who have hurt you so deeply would repent of their sin and would change their ways. I know that and I’m sure you pray for that, that you and Patrick are praying right now for that. Am I right? Mary DeMuth: Absolutely. That is underneath all of this, is just a desire to see the local church healthy and to see her lift up the name of Jesus. And we also just want to again put up a mirror of is this representing the kingdom of God or is this representing something else? And that’s what we were coming to find. Patrick and I both were. The kingdom’s upside down. It’s counterintuitive. It’s the least is the most. And the most is the least. It’s not about building platforms. It’s not about being the winner. It’s not about Christian nationalism. It’s none of these. I don’t even like those two words together. Mary DeMuth: It’s not about power. Jesus willingly laid down his power and he considered equality with God, not something to be grasped. He made himself nothing. And when I see a lot of these big churches and not all of them, but a lot of them where it is very male leader centric celebrity driven. And really about, we want to be the coolest people with the biggest numbers. Mary DeMuth: I don’t get it. They’ll point to Acts chapter two. They’ll talk about how many were added to the kingdom on that day. They’ll call that a mega church. It was not a mega church. People were still meeting in homes. So we just have to be careful. I’m not against mega churches. I actually think that there’s a place for them. Mary DeMuth: Over the years, they we have had the benefit of a megachurch that can go into a community and say, oh, you need a church building, here you go. Like they can do some things that a littler church can’t do. So I’m not against the megachurch, but there is something fallible in the model, the consumeristic model, that is causing all of this anguish. Julie Roys: And I’d say the leadership model. Because we have imported a leadership model that’s of the world and done the exact opposite of what Jesus said, don’t be like the Gentiles who lorded over them, but instead, whoever wants to be first should be last, whoever wants to be greatest should be least. Julie Roys: It is the upside-down kingdom, and we’ve forgotten that. We’ve become just like the world, and we count our success the same way as the world. And we’ve seen this going, it’s been going on a very long time, and I think the megachurches get a lot of the criticism because they’ve. been kind of doing it in spades in an awful lot of them and then exporting these values to all the smaller churches who are wannabes, right? Julie Roys: So you even have smaller churches that are trying to do the exact same thing and they think it’s right because it’s successful very much in the American model of success, which is bigger and better. Before we go forward, there is something I do want to ask you, though, and I would be remiss if I didn’t. What was it about what you and Patrick that you were doing that they didn’t want you serving? Mary DeMuth: I don’t know. They just didn’t want us. That’s what’s been hard is, it’s a speculative, I just don’t know. And I’m willing to be talked to about those things, of course. Like if they feel like something that we’re not godly enough or we’re, or I’m too public or whatever it is, I don’t know. Mary DeMuth: But I do know this, I do know this. When we were told this, what we learned was that they had been morphing from a church that had a lot of lay leaders to a higher control situation where only people who are employed by the church could be in charge of ministries. And so, you can control that. If you can control someone's salary, you can control the whole thing. Mary DeMuth: And so we were just told there is no place for you because we’re not on staff. So that’s probably my guess at a reason is that we were not controllable. And the statement made to us is I’ve got 30 other people just like you that are well trained and that have gone, my husband went to seminary, and all that, but will never use them. We will never use them. And basically, you just need to get over it. You will never be used. Julie Roys: What a waste of resources. Unbelievable. The kingdom is not so well resourced that we don’t need every single person; that God didn’t give gifts every single one of them to be used. Julie Roys: But I will say, I’ve seen this happen before. And the beautiful thing is, people get dispersed, people like yourself and like Patrick, too often churches that are very needy very welcoming. Like Oh, thank God. It’s like Christmas come early, come to Moots, come to our church. And I’m sure you’re experiencing that because I can’t imagine not wanting you and Patrick at my church. It’s just shocking to me. But yeah, that is a benefit of it. It’s the church in Jerusalem getting persecuted. Then they went to the ends of the earth, and we can do that. Julie Roys: One of the things that I’ve seen be a silver lining, if you can call it that, in these sorts of situations is you’re a church refugee, but there’s a lot of other ones out there, too. And there can be a great deal of deep fellowship. And, in many ways, that’s what RESTORE is. It’s a gathering of a lot of not just refugees, a lot of helpers and pastors and people who are allies who just want to know more. But. There’s an awful lot of us there that have been hurt by the church, and there’s just this beautiful, sweet fellowship. Julie Roys: And my understanding is, and Amanda alluded to it in our last podcast, that you guys have served as pastors to these refugees. Would you talk about that sweet group that you were able to love on and pastor through this and just help them? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we definitely were praying, and we just kept coming upon people. And in particular, people who had been employed but had been harshly fired in very traumatic ways. And we just felt so deeply. I mean for us, it’s sad and we were highly involved and it’s sad, but it wasn’t our job. And so we just had this empathy for those folks. And so we gathered as much as we knew, we put the word out quietly. Mary DeMuth: We gathered people for several weeks and met with them. And these were people that some were still there, and some were not, and some were walking away from Jesus. It was just the whole gamut of a wide variety of people in a lot of pain. And what we wanted to do was just to help them know our first session was called, You are not crazy. We just wanted them to know. that what they had seen and experienced was real and validated by the rest of us. And then we’ve just been walking through Chuck DeGroat's information about narcissism in the church and narcissistic church systems. And then talking about what is a safe person and what is a safe system. And then praying and crying and grieving and giving people the space that they are not allowed to have to get out all this junk that’s inside of us because it’s been so, so painful. Julie Roys: And I want to get to the safe system and the safe person, because I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening who would like that information as well. Julie Roys: But let’s talk about the feelings first, because when this happens, there is. Again, we talked about bewilderment. There’s just this mix of negative emotions that you don’t know what to do with a lot of times. One is anger and anger in the church has been one of these emotions that we just don’t deal with very well. And I’ve said this numerous times, but this is one that we’ll get. We’ll get thrown back in my face and people say, you sound like you’re angry and I’m like, darn I’m angry. Why aren’t you angry? Why wouldn’t we be angry when these awful things are happening in the church? And yet again, as a Christian, we feel guilty when we’re angry. So how have you dealt with your own anger, and helped others who are dealing with similar anger? Mary DeMuth: The first thing that we did was we process outside of the circle of the church because we needed to know if we were going crazy. Is this normal? Are these things that we’re saying? Is it a big deal? Or are we just being babies? We definitely did that. And then it’s been the prayer of let this anger fuel something beautiful, because I do believe that great movements of God happen because there’s injustice and we are angry at the injustice. Mary DeMuth: I often joke that I write a book when I’m angry, so I must be a pretty angry person at book 52. There’s injustice in this world and our God is righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. When we do the work of making note of people who are being hurt and oppressed and harmed, we are doing the Lord’s work. And so that anger can be a fuel to doing positive things Mary DeMuth:. Now, I also just want to say, it’s okay to be angry. I’m angry and I have been angry and I’m processing that with friends and I’m processing it with my husband and with the Lord. Rightfully so, because I see so many people, to use Mark Driscoll’s frustrating phraseology, the people behind the bus. I’m meeting so many people behind the bus that are getting the bus is backing up over the people. Because not only cause when if you say anything, if you dare to say anything, you will get run over again and again, you will be accused of all sorts of things when really your desire is to see people set free and to open the eyes of people that are being harmed so that they no longer have to be in that system anymore. Julie Roys: And what a great deal of fear these leaders must feel. to behave that way that you have to annihilate people who say anything negative. I’ve gotten quite comfortable with people saying negative things. I just want to make sure if there’s truth in it, that I take it to heart. It’s okay, but in the end of the day, you’ve got to be okay with who you are before your Lord. And those closest to you who will tell you the truth when you’re veering off. That desire to control that desire that you have to shut down negative communication. I can’t imagine living in that much fear that you constantly are doing that. And yet that’s what we see. Julie Roys: And that whole thing about feeling like you’re crazy. So much of that’s because you’ve been told you’re crazy. You’ve been told that because that’s the gaslighting that happens when you say there’s a problem. No, there is no problem. You’re the problem. Mary DeMuth: It’s back to the emperor with no clothes. We all see the naked emperor and only a little kid says he’s not wearing any clothes. And we’re like Oh, yeah, but there’s this like kind of delusional thing or czarist Russia, the Potemkin village. If you know what that is, it was a village that was just set up like a movie set so that when the czar went by he could see that this Potemkin’s village was actually a really cool place, but you open the door, you walk through, it’s just mud and dirt on the other side and some horses grazing in a field. Church is not a Potemkin village. It should never be. It should not be a facade that we are trying to hold up by shaming people who say negative things. The church is a living, breathing organization. It is the body of Christ. Mary DeMuth: God does not need to be defended. He can do just fine by himself. And this fear that you talk about is very real because it’s about human empire. Whenever we build our Roman empire on our cult of personality and our particular views about things and not on the word of God and not on studying the word of God, then we will be threatened by anyone who says anything negative because that will eat away at the foundation of our FACO empire. Julie Roys: Very well said. That is very well said. Let’s talk about grief. And I was reminded of the Kubler Ross Stages of grief. And let me see. Those are denial, which is often where we start, right? When things go wrong, anger, the bargaining we can work this out somehow, right? Depression and sink into that deep depression. This is just so sad. And then there’s acceptance, which is that last one. And it’s not like these are completely linear because what I found is you go through, oh, I’ve worked through to acceptance. No, I haven’t. I’m back at anger again. Julie Roys: Something will happen. it'll put you right back there. So it’s not completely linear, but how have you moved toward acceptance? What does acceptance look like? And maybe that’s a long way off but talk about where you’re at in that whole process. Mary DeMuth: I think a lot of people are in this space. There’s a lot of loyal people and that’s where the bargaining comes in. And a lot of the people I’ve talked to are like, yeah, I never go to that church anymore, like to the services, but I’m here because of my small group and they’re my church. There’s this, that we were in that space for a really long time. We can make this work. This is our church, not that other part is not the church, but it’s all together. Mary DeMuth: So once we got to the decision and made the decision, then the depression set in for sure. And I think I’m still there working my way through it of thinking that I was going to be there the rest of my life. As a person who grew up in a really difficult home and met Jesus at 15 years old, the church became my family. My family was not my family. And the church was the one place where I could go to be loved, to be healed, to be worked, just to work through my salvation with fear and trembling. And so, to walk away from something that you’ve been at the most we’ve ever been at a church is 23. This is the longest we’ve ever been somewhere to walk away from. It felt like I lost my limb. I lost my family, my father’s in the faith, my mother’s in the faith, my aunts, and my uncles in the faith. And then to be villainized for just having eyes to see what the heck is going on, has been devastating, devastating. So I’m still in the grief phase and I don’t cry much about it because I’ve sometimes just shoved it way down deep because I did not ever expect that I was going to have to leave a place I loved so much. Julie Roys: There’s a, I think it’s a short story and I should know the name of it, but it’s about someone, a man who goes to a cemetery and he sees a woman just weeping and weeping, and he’s there to visit his partner who had died. I don’t think he had actually married her. But he realizes in that moment that the person who’s grieving, who’s crying and just sobbing is the richer person. Because they had loved deeply and he had never loved that deeply. And I’ve thought about that, I lost my mother over 20 years ago and she was so special and I never like, I hear some people talk about their mothers, and how difficult or what I never felt that way. My mother was just a joy, but it was so hard to lose her, but it was hard because I loved her so much. Julie Roys: And I think, I’m so grateful for you that you did have that church experience where you were loved so deeply, where you loved deeply, and I’ve got to believe that God will provide that family again. It will be different. And I know I just feel so blessed by our church family that we found in this wasteland or out of the wasteland. Julie Roys: But it’s been really, really special because I don’t have to explain anything to these people. They understand the world I work in. They understand. It’s just, it’s really been a gift. And I think it’s been a gift too. And I know you have adult children. I’m glad I had these adult children because they’re a blessing in ways that they couldn’t be and a support in ways that they couldn’t be when they were younger, when we had to be everything to them. Julie Roys: And I’m glad I’m not dealing with, and I know a lot of people are, is what do we do for our kids now? And then there’s that pressure to find something for your children right away. And that makes it really hard. But as believers, we are taught, Hebrews 10:25, let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but all the more as the day of the Lord approaches, let us encourage each other and all the more as the day approaches. I have found sometimes that can be used as a club against people who are just grieving, and they’re dealing with a great deal of betrayal trauma at this point. Julie Roys: And now we’re going to hit them over the head and say, you better be in church on Sunday. When they walk into a church and it just triggers, it’s a trigger for them. I believe in fellowship. I believe in the church. I love the church, but I am concerned about the process of helping people reengage after they’ve been wounded so profoundly. Julie Roys: So speak to this process of finding a new church home, or even having the freedom for a period of time to say, I don’t know. I don’t know that I can do that right now. Obviously, there is a danger if we’re out of fellowship for too long. But speak to that person who right now is outside of fellowship and really afraid to reengage with it. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. First, you’re super normal. And if you’ve been wounded in a terrible community, the stakes are pretty high, when you walk in, especially if you’re triggered or traumatized by walking into a building. I don’t know that I could walk into a big church right now. Like I just don’t think I could, I think I would have a hard time with that. Mary DeMuth: So for us, how we went about it and everyone’s going to be different, we did want to land somewhere because we just feel like we’re in that stage of, we want to serve the church. And so for our little parameters, and I think it’ll be different for every person. Ours was, it needs to be local. And we’re hoping that there will be people there already that we’re friends with. Mary DeMuth: And since we’re in a little town, right? So there’s, 1 billion churches and little towns in Texas, right? So we had plenty to choose from so many, and we didn’t even get to all of them, but that was our parameter in choosing a home. In fact, we just officially joined a church yesterday. So it did take some time to get to that place. But I just want to let you know that it’s normal to be scared, to be triggered, to be in pain. Mary DeMuth: Don’t let it stay there. You are wounded in a negative community and the Lord is very frustrating and he asks you to be healed in good community. That’s hard. But a relational wound requires a relational cure, and that’s one reason why Patrick and I have been pouring into people who are hurt because we want to be that safer relationship for people to be falling apart or hurting or ask really blunt questions and be really ticked off. Because I believe people are healed in community when they’re wounded in community. Julie Roys: 100%. And I know when I came through just so much grief and pain and church hurt. I know a lot of people go to therapy and I’m not against therapy, but I was like, I don’t need to talk to this about this with a counselor. It’s just not like that. I need to be in a community where there’s love. I need to see beauty in people like again. And even though I’m afraid to be vulnerable on some levels at the same time, I’m compelled to be vulnerable because I know until you do that, you can’t heal. Mary DeMuth: When we met with the person who became our pastor and there’s a multiplicity of pastors in this particular denomination, but we sat across from him and we told him our story and he just listened, and he dignified the story. And then he said this, he said, we just want to love you. And I just immediately just, I was like, what? you don’t want to use me? Cause we’ve been in leadership positions in the church for so long, our whole adult lives we’ve been in those positions and for him to say, we just want to love you. And that was foreign to me, but that was the beginning of that healing journey. Julie Roys: I had a pastor at one of the churches we visited when we were in this search process. And it was at a very large church I would say it’s probably a megachurch, and we sat across from him and he said a very similar thing. It was really wonderful. And he said, “I think you guys have been wounded deeply, and you need a place to heal. And we do just want to love you. What was interesting is when I came back to him with a follow up email, because part of me is like wait, this is a megachurch. Am I insane? Julie Roys: I’m just like looking at it and being like, I don’t think this is at all what I want. And then I emailed him. I said, we want a pastor. Would you be able to pastor us? And then he basically declined as nicely as he could; like I’d love to be, but I can’t and I’m like I don’t need a small group leader to try and pastor me. I was just kind of like of course, you can’t because you have the corporation to run. And so that is again a fundamental issue that I do have with the mega church. Julie Roys: One thing I found and I see it here, because I don’t know how many people in the Chicago area who have left Willow Creek and ended up at Harvest. They’re like, wow, di I know how to pick them! They’re going from something that’s become familiar. And if you became a believer at Willow, then that big model, that big service, whiz bang entertaining sermon or inspirational talk, whatever you want to call it. Julie Roys: Although I’ll say at Harvest, he preached he discipled people. I know a lot of people from Harvest that were discipled shockingly by a really depraved pastor. But I see them going from what they’re used to. And it’s almost like when I see people who grew up in a dysfunctional home and thank God you didn’t do this, but they often then replicate that in their own home, or they’re attracted to that same kind of dysfunction in the next home. Julie Roys: And I’ve seen it with churches and I’m just like, why are you going to the same model of church that you just left? And I see that there’s this thought in their head that it’s just the one bad apple. That’s all it is. It’s the one bad apple, but basically there’s nothing wrong with the system. Julie Roys: I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the system. So speak to that. Do you think, I know you’ve got some pretty strong opinions now about celebrity megachurches, even though you said some megachurches we’ve seen work. Do you have some thoughts about the model of church and what makes a safe church? Mary DeMuth: Yes. So many thoughts. I’ll start with a story. In the early two thousand, I went to my first Christian writers conference before I was published and on the airplane on the way there, my story flashed before my eyes and I said, Lord I’ve withstood a lot of trials. Like I’ve gone through a lot of trials. Mary DeMuth: And he said clearly to me, you have withstood many trials, but will you withstand the trial of notoriety? And that has stayed in my mind all these years because fame emaciates, fame makes you think that you’re better than other people and that people exist to serve you rather than you equipping the saints for the work of service. Mary DeMuth: And when the systems are in a place, typically what happens is the ego takes over. There’s something deep within the narcissistic system. And in the narcissistic pastor, they have this wound that they can’t fill except by acclaim. And then it’s like a drug, so they have to keep being acclaimed. They cannot have negative things said about them. Mary DeMuth: Therefore, the next thing they’ll do is they will dismantle the elder board, or they will significantly reduce the influence of the elder board that exists or completely dismantle it altogether. They will gather yes-men around themselves who will only say positive things to them that are not in their context that cannot see them do the bad things And who are other megachurch pastors. So there’s just this like cabal of megachurch pastors that are sitting on each other’s boards saying you can do whatever you want and have fun. Mary DeMuth: That system is ungodly and that will cause the fall of many leaders, which we have already seen over and over and over. It’s like a broken record of sameness. It keeps happening. Why? Because I think we are creating a church structure from a pyramid, which if you look in the Bible, the Israelites left Egypt, but were still looking back at it. One person at the top, one Pharaoh at the top, one supreme ruler, and then everybody has to fit into that system underneath that pyramid. Mary DeMuth: Whereas the kingdom of God is the opposite of that. It’s an inverted pyramid. The kingdom is of people that are last to are not acknowledged. And I think we’re going to be super surprised at where they are standing in line and the new heavens and the new earth, the people with all the acclaim are going to be way at the back. The people that nobody knew about that were silently and quietly serving the Lord are going to be at the front of the line. And we’re going to say, tell me your story, I want to learn from you. Mary DeMuth: But these structures cause the downfall of many men who do not have the character to hold up that structure. They’ve been given leadership responsibility without having maturity, and therefore they are stealing sermons. They are harming people with their words. They are demonizing others. They are all sorts of things you talked about last week. They’re doing those things because they have to keep their empire because their ego needs it so badly. Julie Roys: And the other thing is, and we can’t really even go into this, although I know you see this too, because you run your own literary agency, is that the evangelical industrial complex needs these celebrity pastors to function. So they need the publishing companies need the celebrities so that they can publish them, so that the megachurches need the celebrity to fuel their model of that great attractional speaker that can be everything. Which again, does just feed into the narcissism and it attracts the narcissism. Julie Roys: We like the narcissist. And the whole entire moneymaking empire runs on these narcissists and these celebrity pastors. And so it’s not just even the pastor himself who needs to be a celebrity, but it’s this system that needs celebrities. And at some point, Mary we’ve got to deal with this and evangelicalism, or we’re just going to keep doing this over and over and over again. Mary DeMuth: And I believe the Lord is bringing judgment on those systems. And we’re seeing that in publishing as well. I think it’s a broken system. We make these requirements of how popular you are to be able to be an author. In the nineties and before, it was really about can you write a good book? Is it theologically sound? Do you have a good mind? Do you have a heart to minister to others? And now it’s how many social media followers do you have? Which is you can buy those. Mary DeMuth: So what does that even mean? I hate being a cog in the Christian industrial complex, both as an author and as a literary agent, but as an agent, I feel like I’m championing projects that would otherwise not get sold. That are more global voices people that are marginalized and not often given a voice. So that’s why I have a literary agency. Cause I’m trying to have those voices platformed. Julie Roys: Before you go, I want to ask you also about, we’ve talked a little bit about a safe church, but what makes somebody a safe person as you’re trying to process this? Mary DeMuth: A safe person is someone who doesn’t speak initially, who is an active listener. Who doesn’t jump to conclusions, who doesn’t feel the need to defend the church that you are leaving, who doesn’t say things like Hebrew says don’t forsake your assembling together. Those kinds of like cliche, like super cliche oh, you better do this instead of just meeting you in your grief. Mary DeMuth: A safe person doesn’t try to change your state. They come alongside you into your state and they weep alongside. And that to me is so powerful. People won’t remember what you said, but they will remember that you were there with them in the pain. And we’re just willing to say, yeah, that hurts. And, oh, that must’ve been very painful. Just that empathy piece. Julie Roys: And they won’t shame you for deconstructing. They’ll walk with you; they’ll allow you to process. And I hate that when I see that. I see it on social media all the time, people denigrating people who are deconstructing and I’m like, maybe if you didn’t do that, maybe they wouldn’t be walking away from their faith. But again, deconstructing, I think takes a lot of different forms. I think for a lot of people that have gone through it; they’ve come back to a richer faith that stripped of maybe some of the baggage that they had previously. Julie Roys: Before I let you go, because I know a lot of people listening are in this place of just really, really struggling and in a lot of hurt. And I know you have names and faces for those people too. Would you be willing to just pray for them and what they’re going through right now? Mary DeMuth: I will. And I’m just going to mention, I have a free resource, MARYDEMUTH.COM/CHURCHHURT. And it’s a hundred statements about things that people feel when they’re going through church hurt so that you can share it with a friend and check off the ones that are you, and then have a good conversation about it. Julie Roys: Wonderful. What a great resource. Thank you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Okay. Let me pray. Lord, thank you for loving the least of these. Thank you for leaving the 99 and chasing the one. Thank you for being counterintuitive. Thank you for the Sermon on the Mount. Thank you for your grace being sufficient for us and your power is made perfect in our weakness. Mary DeMuth: Lord, forgive us for these systems where we are worshiping strength, power, and numbers when that’s nothing to do with your kingdom. Reorient our lives and our hearts to what is your kingdom. Help us to hear your voice in the midst of the madness and the muddledness of what this has become. I pray that you would send friends to my friends who are suffering in the aftermath of spiritual abuse and church hurt. Mary DeMuth: I pray for hope Lord in these kinds of situations, it can feel like a death, and it feels very hopeless and sad. I pray for comfort and pray all of this in your beautiful name, Jesus. Amen. Julie Roys: Amen. Mary. Thank you so much. And how beautiful that even in this you are ministering to others through it. So I am just so grateful for you and for Patrick and for what you bring to the kingdom. And thank you so much for being willing to talk so vulnerably and bravely. So thank you. Mary DeMuth: Thank you. Julie Roys: And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and I want to invite all of you to our next Restore Conference in Phoenix in February 2025. Julie Roys: This is one of the most healing gatherings I know of, where you won’t just hear from amazing folks like Mary DeMuth and Scott McKnight, author of A Church Called Tove, and Dr. David Pooler, an expert in adult clergy sexual abuse. But you’ll also meet lots of other people who have gone through similar experiences, and I’ve found that just being in that kind of community is so healing. Julie Roys: And so powerful. So please come. I would love to meet you there. To find out more information, just go to RESTORE2025.COM. Also just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. Julie Roys: And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. 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Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/ZOOhWWj5AqIAccording to the Houston Chronicle, hundreds have recently left Lakepointe Church—Josh Howerton's prominent megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Now a longtime volunteer leader at Lakepointe, who recently left the church with her family, is speaking out. Joining host Julie Roys on this edition of The Roys Report is Amanda Cunningham, a former model and actress who became a Christian at Lakepointe Church under former Senior Pastor Steve Stroope. She also served as a leader in both the marriage ministry and women's ministry, which boomed during her years there. But in 2019, Stroope retired, and young pastor Josh Howerton was hired to replace him. According to Amanda, that's when a major transformation occurred. Ministries were canceled as the church sought to become more centralized and on-brand. Emails from Amanda to those in her ministry were canceled, and they were replaced by communications from central leadership. Soon, outsiders began posting about Howerton's plagiarized sermons. His behavior online, and in sermons, led to allegations of misogyny. Then, Howerton told a joke that some said promoted marital rape. Howerton apologized for the joke, but as TRR reported, he apparently plagiarized his apology! Most recently, the church, in an effort to gain city approval for a traffic light, urged people in the church to sign up to drive repeatedly through an intersection to manipulate the findings of a traffic study. All these events, plus interactions Amanda witnessed personally, made her and her husband feel like they no longer could attend the church. Now, she's speaking out to warn others. After 11 years doing life and ministry at Lakepointe, it wasn't easy or simple for Amanda and her husband to exit. Her eye-opening account covers what led them to that point—plus insights on church celebrity culture, top-down leadership, and spiritual abuse that are widely applicable. Guests Amanda Cunningham Amanda Cunningham is a former model/actress who left her career behind when she became a mom. Subsequently, she spun into an identity crisis and was later stunned to find her true identity in Christ. Amanda is a writer, speaker, wife of a fire Deputy Chief, and mother of two girls. Connect with Amanda on Facebook. Show Transcript Coming soon Read more
This week, we talked all about our experience at the Tobacco Road Relay over the weekend. TRR is an event that Erik and George helped win in 2022 in its inaugural year, and this year, they were back to give it another go on a three-person team with their friend Lee. The course had changed a great deal, though, and the race director--Ken Sevensky, the race director of the Blue Ridge Relay--put together a great event. We talk all about our running, our fueling, and of course, our gear, as we made our way as a three-person team over the 75-mile course in central North Carolina.
Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/eX7GZjdC4DEWhy can't people get over talking about race? Ever heard that line? Or, how about: We live in a post-racial world. We've even had a black president! If racism doesn't exist, then we don't have to deal with it. Yet racism, sadly, is alive and well—not just in our culture, but within the church. On this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Dr. Lainna Callentine—an educator, pediatrician, and former evangelical faith leader—delivers a powerful talk from our recent Restore Conference. Lainna has walked an incredibly difficult and painful journey as a Black woman in the evangelical church. This is a journey that white evangelicals often don't acknowledge. And it's an experience that Julie Roys, TRR founder and a friend of Lainna's, admits that she once didn't believe or affirm. But, just as Julie's eyes have been opened to abuse and corruption in the church, the past few years have given her a new awareness of racism in the church, as you'll hear in Julie's introduction of Lainna's talk. Lainna's talk, which is rich with history and personal anecdotes, has the power to open the eyes of many others. Please listen with a heart and mind open to what Lainna and the Holy Spirit have to say. Guests Lainna Callentine, M.D., M.Ed. Lainna Callentine, M.D., M.Ed., is a pediatrician, former homeschool mother, master's trained educator, and creator of curriculum program, Sciexperience. Dr. Callentine received her B.A. from Northwestern University and completed her M.D. at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. She has taught all levels from early childhood to postgraduate students. Learn more at sciexperience.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERSJulie Roys, LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. Julie Roys 00:04Why can’t people just get over talking about race? Ever heard that line? Or how about, we live in a post racial world, we even had a black president. Of course, if racism doesn’t exist, then we don’t have to deal with it. But as you’re about to hear racism, sadly is alive and well, not just in our culture, but within the church. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And on this podcast, you’re about to hear a powerful talk from our RESTORE conference by Dr. Lainna CALLENTINE Lainna is a pediatrician and an educator and a former faith leader in the evangelical church. But she’s also a friend of mine who’s walked an incredibly difficult and painful journey as a black woman in the white Evangelical Church. This is a journey that white evangelicals often don’t acknowledge. And as you’ll hear, it’s an experience I once didn’t believe or affirm. But just like I’ve had my eyes opened to abuse and corruption in the church, the past few years have opened my eyes to racism in the church as well. And coming to terms with this reality has been hard because I’ve had to deal with my own ignorance and indifference. And I’ve had to acknowledge my complicity with a sinful system that treats persons of color as less than full bearers of the image of God. But what Lainna did, coming into a predominantly white space and delivering this message was even harder. And I think that’s something I haven’t realized until recently as well. So many of our Black, Hispanic, Asian, and indigenous brothers and sisters have been profoundly wounded and traumatized by white Christians. And they have every reason to expect that when they speak to us, they’ll be minimized, dismissed, and traumatized again. I’m grateful that didn’t happen at RESTORE and I hope like the audience at RESTORE, you’ll open your heart and your mind to receive this important message from Dr. Lainna Callentine on surviving white evangelical racism. Julie Roys 01:57 But before we hear from Lena, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington if you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM Julie Roys 03:01 Well, again, you’re about to hear a talk by Dr. Lainna Callentine on surviving and thriving beyond white evangelical racism. I’ve also included in this podcast a portion of my introduction of Lainna at RESTORE, which includes an important apology. For time sake, I’ve had to remove my description of how my eyes were opened to racism in the church, while investigating what happened at Bethlehem Baptist Church, the Church John Piper pastored for three decades. But I encourage you if you want to understand more about the covert nature of racism in the evangelical church, go back and listen to our two-part podcast on what happened at Bethlehem Baptist Church when you’re finished with Lainna’s talk. But now here’s Lainna’s powerful talk at RESTORE 2023 with a short introduction and apology by me. Julie Roys 03:49 So, three weeks ago, our next guest and I got together at her request, and we talked for about four hours. And she said, Julie, I just don’t know if I can do this talk. And she said this is what normally happens when I come into a predominantly white audience, and I talk about the trauma I’ve experienced as an African American woman in the church. So, I go out there and I bleed, I bare my soul, and then they look at me with eyes of disbelief., and they just go on their way. And I mostly listened because I really didn’t have a lot to say, and I just needed to hear. And then she reminded me about how we had gotten together because our next guest is a friend of mine. In fact, she was my daughter’s 11th grade biology teacher. And she reminded me of a time we got together in a coffee house, and she shared her, really bared her soul to me, about all the racism that she had experienced. And she said, Julie, I didn’t feel like you believed me either. And the truth is six, seven, however, many years ago, this was I didn’t really believe it. I mean, I believe there was probably some racism in the church. It really wasn’t until I did the investigation on Bethlehem Baptist Church, John Piper’s church, and I got to know these people who had persons of color that had gotten together, had a dinner for the first time where it was just them. And they shared some of their experiences. And out of that, they decided that they wanted to put together a committee and address why is it that we have so few persons of color on our elder board? And then what happened with this committee is that then they spent, I forget how many months, a lot of months working on this, and then they gave their findings. And you know, it’s kind of death in committee. They gave their findings, that was it, nothing happened. Every single member of that committee ended up leaving the church. Julie Roys 06:22 And so, it kind of opened my eyes to how this is done. And it’s kind of a covert thing. And I had to say to Lainna, you know what? I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I didn’t see that. And I’m sure that hurt you. And that was wrong of me. And I also told her that you guys are different. And when you’ve had enough bad experiences with white people, it’s hard to say this group is different. But I said, one, this group knows about believing victims, about believing survivors, and believing their stories. And we also know that when you get up and you bleed, when you tell your story, we get the cost. It’s like re traumatizing. And if you’re going to do that, and nothing’s going to happen. It’s like it happened again. Right? And so, I know you guys, I believe in you guys, or I wouldn’t have asked my friend to come, who I care about deeply. And It’s my prayer that this will be a healing experience for all of us. But especially for persons of color who have been hurt profoundly in the church. Just to tell you a little bit about Lainna’s credentials. She’s a pediatrician, who completed her MD at the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine. She’s also a former homeschool mother, Master’s trained educator, a creative curriculum program called SCI Experience. And then she served on a whole bunch of different Christian organizations that we would recognize, although she said to make sure that I say she was the former, or formerly served on the Physician Resource Council at Focus on the Family. But I love Lainna dearly. And I’ll just warn you, she doesn’t mince words. I have no idea what she’s gonna say. Let’s welcome Lainna. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 08:38 Thanks, Julie, for your words, and your apology is very heartfelt. Thank you. One of the things you need to know that I’m just traumatized being in this space speaking to you. Okay? And I know that as we prayed for all of you this morning, how coming into a church space listening to some of the songs that we’re singing, how traumatizing that is to you. And I hold that in my heart and understand that pain. As I’ve walked through evangelical spaces there are many things that have been said to me. These are just a few in the fine collection of lines that have been delivered to me with good intentions. I don’t see color. You are so articulate. You’re playing the race card that I’m doing reverse discrimination and racism. Why can’t people get over talking about race? I don’t even care if you’re black, white, or purple. I’m not sure. Only purple people I’ve seen are dead. But one of my best friends is black. We live in a post racial world. We’ve had a black president, Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan. My family did not own slaves, and All Lives Matter. So, these are a few things. These are just a few of the sophomoric, unhelpful, and lacking insight retorts that I’ve received from my white brothers and sisters in Christ when discussing race with them. I’ve questioned myself over and over again, why am I here today? Up to this morning. I really didn’t think I could be here. A few months ago, as Julie said, when she asked me to speak at the RESTORE conference, I have struggled and questioned my need and your need to hear me speak. I have not spoken in front of a large audience since 2019. I swore off speaking in front of white Christian-like audiences, like someone giving up chocolate for Lent. I have been successful up until today to keep that pledge. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 11:08 This is a bit of a public coming out for me. Authentically, being myself, you’re the first people to see this. In the words of Maya Angelou. I no longer are beholding to the white gaze. I must have sat down 1000 times to write some kind of speech for you. I’ve struggled to share intimate parts of me, potentially to an audience and community like those in the past that caused me so much pain. It was then I was a respectable model Negro who provided a limited colorism to their homogeneity, I allowed myself to be squashed and to be strategically unassuming, as I would not convey the angry black woman or intimidate the fragility of the individuals around race. Now, I do not have the motivation or desire to wrap up this in joining into a neat tidy package sprinkled with various Bible verses and then joining hands to sing a rendition of Kumbaya making all feel comfortable with my threatening presence as an educated black woman. I’m going to be completely honest with you; discussing racial trauma in white evangelical spaces to me, as Julie was talking about, is like slitting my wrists for white folks to see me bleed as a bizarre form of curiosity and entertainment, while giving them the power to determine if my blood is red, debate the merits of the tool of my infliction and determine the depth of my wound and the level of pain I may be experiencing. All of this is based on their intellectualized bystander observations and their limited personal experiences. I’m tired of being treated when I talk about race, racism, unfair, unjust practices, and white Christian spaces as not being a credible witness. Being divisive and unloving in some way, my race disqualifies me, because I have a conflicted interest in my blackness, and that only white folks have the power to be the judge in jury in such matters. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 13:37 Julie assured me that this audience would be different. I told Julie, there is a great difference between white folk who have been hurt by the church and by the figures in Christian organizations, than the pain of being black in overwhelming Christian space. There are many nuances. Yes, Julie, they feel pain, isolation, and loss. But here’s the key difference. You see, Julie, you all were part of the family. You and they belonged until you didn’t. Me, however, while I was never part of the family, I was allowed to be in those spaces, tolerated as long as I did not upset the fragile balance or to critique or speak of the lack of people of color, in leadership or in lowly position in that space. I was to be unseen and unheard, and I was allowed to enjoy the delicious morsels that fell from the table where no seat was available for me. I felt a little bit like Charlie Brown ready to kick a football, getting into position to swing my leg, and Lucy quickly going from holding the ball and snatching it away again, and my landing square into my backside. I am so tired of not being believed, watching white folks finding no compelling reason to address the issue, feeling like they will lose something or be subjugated to the evils in demonic treatments that blacks have experienced. As if those like myself want to pay back every horror on white bodies that have been inflicted on us. I’ve watched white folks actively and complicitly be antithetical to the Gospel, denying the Imago Dei in all people. I’m tired of racism being viewed by white folk as a political issue outside the realm of the gospel and being chastised that we are one human race in a story. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 16:04 I hear God whispering, do you love me? A piece of me dies a bit, and my heart hardens repetitively, telling the story even if later a person starts to believe perhaps my story might be slightly credible. I have paid the price over and over. I feel God holding my hand, will you trust me? I’ll be rejected and dismissed once again God. You are my child and so are they. But they hurt me so much. Look at all that I have lost. I have been hurt and othered all my life in predominantly white spaces. I have lost so much. I do not believe racism will ever go away. It is deeply rooted into the fabric and foundations and the DNA of this country. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 17:04 God can I really love these people? Proximity and the hugging it out doesn’t work. I fought this issue in the world and within my own home. I had no reprieve. I’ve got you, fall back into my arms. I will bear this. God, it’s so hard. But you have sent friends who have done the same who are not the same pigmentation of me. And many of them are here in this audience. They have borne with me the pain and loss that I’ve endured over the last several years. They have shown up with meals, encouragement, and prayer, sat beside me and held my hand on some of the darkest nights. They have listened to my disappointment and even my anger. They have been the hands and feet of Christ. Yes, Lord, I can love them. Because as I look around this room, I see so many of my friends. Although the pain is still there, hope has not been extinguished. I trust you, God, please stay by my side and walk with me and protect me. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 18:30 So, with that, I’m going to tell you a little bit about my story. But I can say something I couldn’t even say 72 hours ago. I love you guys. I have been hurt, but I still have hope. And I want to tell a little bit you know in this time. I’m like, How can I tell a hard story like this in 40 minutes? So, I’m gonna share a little bit about my story. I think parts of it that are pertinent to this particular audience and my titular brothers and sisters. Unlike most African Americans, I’ve never been in an all-black space. I’ve never been part of a black church. I’ve always lived in white communities. And no, I was not adopted. Okay. So, growing up in white spaces, I also have had and continue to have education, because I just seem not to get enough. Right now, I’m getting a fourth degree from Wheaton College in evangelism and leadership. I decided to go there to see what white people were learning. And I got that done and knew in two weeks what was happening but dang I signed up for a three-year degree. That wasn’t well thought out. In my 30 years of formal education, I’ve only had two black instructors. A total of 12 weeks of those 30 years. I’ve learned to study white people learning to code switch and adapt in order to assimilate and be unassuming. My success depended on knowing how to operate in spaces. Their success I’ve learned culturally in medical school. And there have been times in my life where I was on the brink of wanting to join the Black Panther group and forever being away from white people, not black people, because Lord knows I haven’t been around them. So, I had an amazing mentor by the name of Dr. J. Hirsch, in medical school, he was a traditional Jewish man, amazing man. Had an incredible command of an audience. So, he was a child psychiatrist. And he always did the greeting at UIC, where I went to medical school for the incoming medical first year class. And he had a way that he could capture an audience. And I would be sitting in the audience with over 400 of my colleagues, and make you feel like you were the only one in that auditorium. And I was like, I don’t know what that is, but I want that. And one day he was offering, understanding the family as a patient. Anytime you treat a patient, you’re treating the whole family. And so, I decided I need to go to that class for this mysterious man. And I got into his class, it was just a four-week class. And one day I was walking down the hallway, and I was at that time, engaged to my white husband at the time. So, no one knew about that. We kept it kind of secret I hung out with many of the black students, he came up to me and asked me if I would allow him to be my mentor. I looked at him like, really? I’m like, I’m gonna have to think about this. I said, give me some time to think about this, and I walked off. I’m glad to report that I did take him up on his offer. And it was the most amazing time. Actually, my second child is named after Dr. J. Hirsch. He became my academic father; he used his privilege to stand beside me. I didn’t come from a whole line of doctors. I do have a brother that’s a doctor. And that’s something my parents instilled in us. But it wasn’t my background. And there were many times I struggled during medical school where I was close to being kicked out of medical school for academic failure. And he never did my work. I didn’t even know how to write a letter on my behalf. He would make me I would write it, he would edit it, he would make me write it over and over again until I got it right. And at one point, it was so bad that anytime I was called into the dean’s office for academic struggling, he would come with me. Didn’t say a word. I remember one time we were in the elevator, the doors closed, and I was exhausted, I was done. I was like, I can’t fight anymore. And I remember when the doors close, that man took his fist and slammed it against the elevator door and let out a swear word that they better not eff with me. And at that point, his anger overwhelmed me. He freaked me out, oh, like, Man, this guy’s crazy. He wants it worse than I do. And he stood by my side. And that brought me to the brink of going to the dark side. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 23:40 I spoke nationally in homeschool conferences all over the country. And I have a publisher that is, just Google my name, you’ll find out who it is. Who I worked with, who has my books. And I thought we believed the same thing. I was walking in any of these really big conservative organizations, even though I wasn’t up front or seen, I believed in the vision and mission. And as I watched the things that my children went through, and I watched my boys who were cute little biracial boys grow up to start looking like men, watching that they suddenly became dangerous. And I watched how I was treated in the world. And about five or six years ago, I said something’s wrong. So, I began to start speaking out about the racism and exclusion of people of color in leadership and the messaging of predominantly national organizations, ones that may have centered on white families using stock photos of black people to colorize their messaging to give the illusion that they were interested in diversity. I think the last thing that brought me back besides my great family from Tov that Julie spoke of, I’m part of that group of our Tov family, was I was bewildered just like you were. And I was like, these people’s orthodoxy do not match their orthopraxy. And I kept talking out, and I found myself at a conference called liberating. And check this. I did not put this on Facebook, liberating evangelism. decentering whiteness, okay. It’s like, what the heck is decentering whiteness? I don’t even know what that means. And so, I went into this conference., and at the time, I was already being kind of, excuse the pun, blacklisted in the evangelical circles. And I went into this conference, and I knew that no one that I associated would ever find themselves there. So, I walked into the hotel conference room, peeked my head in there, and a third of the people were white. I think I gasped out loud. And I stepped back, and I looked at the sign on the door. Yep. Liberating evangelism. decentering whiteness, why are there white people here? LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 26:20 And it was bizarre to me. And because no one in my evangelical circles would have been caught dead there. And so, I was fascinated as I watched the pulpit be shared by people of color of various nationalities. Now, this is the first time I was at a conference that I didn’t see a white male be a keynote speaker. And what I saw from the indigenous to Latinos, and Asians and other people that did it, it had a different flavor. So I was out of my mind, like observing this really weird world. And I asked one of the white individuals, why are you here? And they looked at me like I was asking a trick question. And they’re like, What do you mean? I said, “Did you not read my lips? Let me try this again. Why are you here? And they said, because the Bible says we should love our brother. And I like, seriously? Do you really believe that? Like, yeah, what else would that mean? And it was that adventure that I went into. And as I started sharing my circles, no one in this circle that I was at, had any idea really of Focus on the Family, or any of these organizations I associated in the homeschool world. And I’m like, Don’t you know who they are? I was like, kind of proud., because I was name dropping all those people. They’re like, I don’t know who these people are. And I was like, really? Because they told me they’re the center of Christianity. But you guys say you’re Christians, but you don’t know those people? They're like, nope, no clue. And so, after I would introduce myself, people would look at me at the conference like, and when those ASPCA commercials, you know, with the little dog in the cage shaking, they would look at me like really pathetically like, Oh, bless her heart, look at her. And I didn’t understand it at the time. And so, after one of the meetings, I was sitting on the couch just bewildered because I had not the language to describe what I was experiencing in the white evangelical space. And, lo Behold, this is how God works, a white woman stood and sat beside me. I was in my thoughts. She put her hand on my shoulder, and she goes, I know from which you come. And it’s just like, God, you know, and I was like, Oh, my gosh. And she’s like, Oh, I know all the people you’re talking about. I’m like you do because I was feeling kind of crazy. Like they didn’t really exist. And she goes, Yes, I’m a homeschool mom. I’m from Florida but I live in Philadelphia. And I traveled here because my husband gave me this gift. And I have two little boys, the woman was white, and I vow that I won’t raise them in the stuff that I was raised in. I was like, wow, this is a whole new world. And she goes, Well, where are you staying tonight? I’m like, I don’t know, this hotel is kind of expensive. I’ll find somewhere else to stay. She’s like, why don’t you stay with me? I said seriously, in your hotel room? I’m like It’s been a while since I’ve been in college and stuff. But so, I said, Okay, this is crazy, but I’ll stay in your room. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 29:40 So over two nights, this white woman mentored me. She’s like, and she didn’t chastise me. She’s like, okay, Lainna, you need a little help here. So, get a notepad out. Okay. And she’s like, let me give you names of some podcasts and some authors. She’s giving me black authors and other things, all the stuff that was taboo, and evangelical will start discovering James Cohn. And I started discovering the real Malcolm X and the real Martin Luther King. I started reading all these things. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t even know about James Baldwin. Nothing in my education had prepared me for this stuff. And she bandaged my wounds that night and brought me from the brink of hate. So, I share that, in that she was willing to step into space with me and walk with me. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 30:39 And my third story of where my friends have come, the last three years, I have had a new friend group. They don’t know they just laugh when I tell them where I’ve been. And these organizations that I have served, and they’re like, that doesn’t sound like the Lainna we know. Like, I know, I’m kind of a different person now. And the way that they’ve come beside me, and the love that I’ve been shown has been unprecedented. So, I can’t thank my friends enough. One of the things that has been really grounding into me is I had the opportunity to go to Ghana this summer. It was life changing, I will never be the same. I am so grounded now. I went on something called a Sankofa. It’s called and Sankofa is from the language A Twi from Ghana, and it means loosely, go back, and get it. And so the whole idea, and this is me sitting on underneath a Sankofa is the bird is facing forward, its neck is backwards. And as it’s going forward, it has the ability to look back. So, the idea is to retrieve things of value from knowledge of the past, you have to go back to move forward. And living in a country where they’re trying to ban all black history as if it’s alternative American history. I have grown up in a world that has told me my people were nothing; that we were savages until we had the unfortunate issue of slavery. And well, that was kind of a bummer. But now we’ve had the opportunity to be civilized. There is no history that we’ve done anything significant in this country or anything. So, I’ve always felt lost. I felt I couldn’t understand who I was. And so, when I went to Africa, I felt an incredible grounding, and a sense of pride. I couldn’t find it here. But I found it there. I learned about my ancestry, that I’m the descendant of kings and queens, where the European Christianity is not nearly as old as the African Christianity. So, I’m learning all these things I never had an opportunity, and it has been life changing. So, I went to for the first time in my life to be in a place where people look like me. Okay? I get lost in the crowd. I’ve never had that happen to me before. And so, we were able to be entertained by African chiefs. And actually, one of the chiefs reminded me of my father. I’ve never been in a group where I could actually see me, and I saw this man, and he resembles my father. Both my parents died of COVID, a couple of years ago, two weeks apart. And I’m going to tell you a little bit about that in a moment. But to see this man, I just welled up in tears and crying because I could see myself for the first time. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 34:08 So going to Ghana, I’d never seen all these billboards with black folk. Okay? I think I saw one billboard with one white person, but everything from their leaders to their celebration to everything else, I saw me. But the interesting thing in Ghana, there’s no such thing as a black person. And so that kind of understanding that their race is invisible, helped me to understand how white people see their race as being invisible. So, to be able to relish in the joys of being a part of a community where people looked at me, looked like me was incredible. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 34:50 I also had the opportunity to visit the Cape Coast and the Gold Coast. And I went into two castles that housed my ancestors when they were stolen raped and taken from their homes. And these castles are on the Cape Coast, Elmira and a Cape Coast Castle. And these were built in the 1400s. This one, particularly by the Portuguese was a trading post that later became a place for black cargo. So, to walk in these buildings and these castles to try to embody and feel the pain of my ancestors was overwhelming. And as I walked through one of the uncommon things that you wouldn’t imagine belief, do you guys know what that is? This is in the middle of one of the castles. It’s a church. There were churches where white people would come while the suffering and horror happened in the same space. And this was very formative to me. At one point, we were merged with a group of white tourists. And it was interesting to watch the white tourists posture. Believe it or not, our whole group from Wheaton College was black. I don’t know how that happened. But all of us were black that were on the trip. And we were merged with the white group. And as we walked solemnly through the sacred places, we watched our white brothers and sisters act like they were on a field trip. They would push to get in the front to get a better view. As they talked about the carnage that was happening in the space, I remember, we went up to the governors quarters. And they were telling us in the space that the governor’s quarters was, it would house up to nine people. That same space down below, would house over 300 of enslaved Africans in the space, without food, any kind of hygiene. Everything happened in that space. And what did my white brothers and sisters say, as they were in that space? They were looking out the windows and talking about what a beautiful view there was. So, at that point, I was like, I’m done. I can’t be around this. And I was sitting next to one of the cannons that protected the castle, kind of reflecting on it and someone kind of caught that picture of me at the time. This is one of the things on the castle. It reads an everlasting memory of the anguish of our ancestors. May those who died Rest in peace, May those who returned find their roots. May humanity never again perpetrate such injustice against humanity. We the living vow to uphold this. So, my whole talk is supposed to be about surviving and thriving. I know about surviving; I have been in survival mode for some time. I’ve had in the last four years I’ve had a total knee replacement as a former athlete along with many health challenges, I’ve ventured into spiritual wilderness teasing out the Jesus of the Bible, versus the twisted Jesus that had no concern for justice. Those who have been harmed in the church, who were unable to refuse to see the imago Dei and all people. I navigated racial unrest and the silence of my white Christian friends and my former circles, who always had something to say about black bleeding and dying bodies laying the street about their character and had nothing to say about the character of a yellow haired man with a bad comb over sitting in the Oval Office. I lost my 30-year marriage to a white man. I haven’t gone public. My divorce was finalized about six months ago. And had a lot to do with this issue. My family has been shattered. I’m watching the politicization of mass while millions die across the world from COVID. And those last being considered expendable. Watching my dad die over FaceTime, due to COVID and not being able to hold his hand or be present as he drew in his last breath,. No funeral and then there’d have to be my mom who died two weeks later. This is just a few of the things that I’ve had to survive over the last four years. I’ve survived a predominantly white churches where my pain and the pain of others who look like me were ignored so that my brighten brothers and sisters could remain comfortable without self-examination. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 39:49 I understand surviving. Surviving is remaining alive. Some days, that was all I could do. It’s continuing to exist after coming close to dying and being destroyed. surviving is holding up holding on and enduring when very little is left in your tank. I know all of you guys understand that. At times surviving is all that we can do. God carried and continues to carry me and you through this. God brought friends into my life who bandaged my wounds and lifted me up when I had no strength on my own. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 40:28 So, I want to get a little geeky, I want to show you something about healing. So, you know, I’m a doctor, and I kind of like that science thing and stuff. So, I’m going to talk about healing by secondary intention. So, this is like a medical picture. So, bear with me, maybe you can see the analogy here is, there are two ways of healing, there’s called first intention versus second intention. So, when a surgeon goes in to repair something, and they make that clean cut, after they repair it, they bring the edges nicely together and sew things up. That leaves a minimal scar. Okay? I feel like what we’re all going through is healing by second intention. And what that is, is when you have a gaping wound, and let’s say it’s been open for some time, or it gets pulled open several times. After about six to eight hours, for more as close to six, we as physicians can’t sew that wound up because of the concern of infection. So, you let that wound stay open. And with that open wound, you have to care for that wound. A lot of times we have antibiotics, and we’ll pack that antibiotic in that wound that the dressings have to get changed often. And as that wound is going through the healing, it actually heals from the bottom up, okay? From the inside, out. And I see us kind of like that secondary intention, as that wounding first we have to start that healing inside of us as we work it out. And then, of course, the scarring from second intention healing is much greater. There’s much scarring, but it’s been restored in a new way. And I feel that a lot of what we’re going through is similar to that secondary healing. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 42:21 So, we talked about surviving, what about thriving? I started looking through this whole idea, what does it mean to be thriving? Am I thriving? I do feel like I have a little more. The fact that I’m here is a big testimony that I’m starting to feel God’s healing presence, and it’s working. And thriving means growing and developing, having resilience. It means you’re comfortable with yourself, you’re able to take control of your physical, mental, and spiritual health. And there’s an increased optimism for the future. Ah, I think I’m starting to thrive. It’s not that the pain is not there. It’s not even that I believe that this world will ever get better. But I know as we walk and take our wounds, and we heal from them, the power that GOD can do with us through our thriving. So, we have a thriving we have flourishing. Like how is thriving and flourishing different? And Acts 2:42-47, If you read that when it talks about the hospitality, it’s a place of a joyous community, where there’s a festival friends. And there are five domains in flourishing; one, happiness and satisfaction that’s gonna look a little different for each of us. It is having the mental and physical health, having meaning and purpose in your life, and character and virtue. Now I know we’ve had a lot of character training in evangelical spaces. So, this will sound bizarre, but that character in virtue cannot be fully embodied unless you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Okay? And most churches and evangelical spaces talk about God, Jesus, and the Holy Bible, because Lord, we won’t get close to the Holy Spirit because that gets a little radical and out of control. And that doesn’t go in our 20-minute sermon series that we’re trying to do. Okay? So, in order to have good character and virtue it has to be nurtured through the Holy Spirit. And lastly, close relationships, close good social relationships. And finally, how do we get there? Okay. In 2019, as I was swearing off white evangelical spaces like chocolate I feel like God laid four words on my heart about this and it seems to apply to all these hard circumstances and prior speakers have spoke of this. So, the four words, the first one is lament. This is not feeling sorry, this is not God created you white. It’s a beautiful thing. No one’s asking you to be anything else than what you’ve been graded. But understanding that hearing these issues, no one wants pity. It’s a legitimate lament, it’s not a sadness. It’s not an Oh! that’s so sad. A lament is a deep longing in pain and sorrow for something. Unless you can lament, you can’t move forward. So, it is a spotty window that someone has talked about that embodying it. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 45:45 The second word he sent me was liberate. Oh my gosh, this seems out of touch. Because of all that stuff I hear an evangelical word about liberating means once Jesus comes, then we’ll be good. No, this means as soon as you see the problem, you have to liberate that issue. You don’t wait till Jesus comes. I lament, there’s a problem, it needs to be corrected now. I love how we like use time; I was told this at a prominent school, Christian school, you know, Lainna, you’re just trying to rush us too much. We’re just going to need a little more time to change hearts. Like seriously? Wait, your Bible says, When you see something wrong, you correct it. How does racism take time? So, you have to liberate. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 46:37 Third thing is to reclaim because Lord knows, you have to, like clean that space out. And you have to reclaim it for Christ because of the distortion and the evilness that’s been pervaded there, that space has to be reclaimed, or that mess comes back. And lastly, you have to reimagine. This is not a little tweaking of systems, you know, like finding a couple more chocolate chips to put into your little organization to try to give the issue that you have reformed yourself. This is a whole reimagining. It’s a whole reimagining of systems and purposes of what you’ve done. You can’t tweak something that’s already distorted, tainted and evil. So, wow, I’m doing good, it’s only 49 seconds. Yes. Okay, so I didn’t think I could do this. LAINNA CALLENTINE M.Ed., M.D. 47:40 So, I just want to leave you I have a little bit of I don’t know if you guys know this book, I didn’t write it. Darn! I wasn’t thinking – I should have brought my own books and should have been holding them up like this. But this is not one I wrote. But it’s by Kate Bowler and it’s The Lives We Actually Have. And I thought something and it’s 100 blessings for imperfect days. And there was a perfect blessing that I want to leave with you. It’s called for when you’ve been hurt by the church. God saw me walk away. I had to, for what was supposed to have been a refuge, a community of hope and purpose, mutual encouragement, distorted all I understand you to be. Oh God, lead me to the heart of love so I might find the healing I need and protect the reverence I have for you. For you do not consume, but rather feed, you do not destroy but build up. You do not abandon your little ones but insist that they belong in your arms. Enfolded here, I see you now. The God who loves us to the end. For though I walked away, you didn’t. You found me and will lead me. Let’s now find the others. Thank you. Julie Roys 49:17 Will again that’s Dr.Lainna Callentine speaking at RESTORE 2023 and Lainna, thank you so much for sacrificing yourself on our behalf to bring this message. And as you explained, there is no quick fix to racism. We need to lament deeply. We need to totally reimagine our systems and our purposes. And that’s something we’re committed to doing at The Roys Report. And I don’t know exactly what that entails, but I am confident that the Holy Spirit does. And we are committed to listening to the Spirit and to following the spirit. So please pray for us as we continue to take Lainna’s message to heart. And as we continue to discern how to practically walk out our conviction that every human being is a bearer of God’s image and worthy of equal respect and love. And I hope you’ll do the same. There’s so much to process in what Lainna said. But dealing with racism is not optional. Any more than following Christ command to love each other is optional. So, let’s commit to doing that together. And again, thank you so much for listening and supporting our podcasts and our mission here at The Roys Report. As I’ve noted before, we don’t have any big donors or advertisers, we simply have you, the people who care about abuse and corruption in the church and want to expose it. So, if you’re able, would you please consider giving a gift to support our ministry? And this month when you donate $30 or more, we’ll send you a copy of The Great DeChurching. This is a great resource exploring what’s causing the current exodus out of the church, and what can be done to stop the bleed. To donate and to get the book just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you’re blessed and encouraged. Read more
Trr trr traemos un episodio con toda la información sobre la denuncia que presentó la CNDH contra la ex maestra de Martín, Karla Quintana y la investigación sobre los vuelos de la muerte durante la Guerra Sucia. Por último, cerramos con Everardo González y su nuevo documental "Una Jauría llamada Ernesto" que presentaremos en Casa Creatura el jueves 30 de noviembre.Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/antifazSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
It's that time again...we've got a Live Talkback with the TRR team on our books for Wednesday, October 17 at 7pm PT on the Quests and Chaos YouTube! Hit up any of our socials for the link to submit your questions, and we hope to see you there!
Today we catch up with some old friends, and some new ones, to talk about the TransRockies Race! TRR is a 6 day stage race across the Rocky Mountains that covers 120 total miles and 20,000 feet of elevation gain. Ina & Mike along with Jenn and Dave relive their experience during the week and talk about how as partners they successfully completed the event.
“Everything is cyclical.” Recruiters and recruitment business owners who have been in the industry for many years understand that no matter how bad the hiring market is, things will get better. This is exactly the approach and mindset of Nick Cabral, our special guest, that enabled them to navigate the 2008-09 recession successfully. Nick is the Principal of Boston Investment Staffing Group. He specializes in permanent and contract placements within the investment and financial services industry. They focus on working with boutique investment managers and becoming an integral partner in their hiring process. He has carved out a successful entrepreneurial path, starting his business amidst the challenges of 2009, and weathering the storm of the 2008 recession. Nick's tales of waiting for the first deal and his survival strategies are packed with priceless insights and advice that a lot of recruitment business owners will find valuable today. Episode Outline and Highlights [02:03] How Nick got into the recruiting industry. [07:27] Nick's significant learnings when working with Boston Networking Group. [11:39] What prompted Nick to launch Boston Investment Staffing Group in 2009? [14:31] Navigating the uncertainties of the 2008-09 recession. [19:11] Nick shares his candidate-centric approach to recruiting and how it led to relationship building. [25:43] Discussion on the respect component in a recruitment process. [29:17] The art of building professional relationships in a post-pandemic environment. [37:36] Understanding and applying the rule of ten. [42:58] The significance of asking the right questions to candidates. Navigating the Uncertainties of the 2008-09 Recession Being in the industry for more than two decades, Nick has built an outstanding career as a recruiter and a recruitment business owner. In our conversation, he was more than generous and shared the significant learnings he had when he worked with his previous employer. He also gave context on what prompted him to launch his own recruitment firm, during the 2008-09 recession. His experience resonates well with me as Nick and I had the same experience during those unfavorable market conditions. I admire his mindset and resilience. He believes that everything is cyclical, and eventually, things will start to pick up again. He also emphasized, “So I think my mindset was keep doing the work, keep making sure that you are contacting clients and candidates and staying on their radar. You're not going anywhere. This is what you're going to do, and I think because of that kind of never-equipped mentality. It led to all right, 2010 got better, and then 11 was even better, and then 12 was a banner year, and so it was hard but manageable. I think you just got to kind of stay grounded in the fact that if you do the work, it will get where you want it to go.” I know that 2023 is not like the 2008-09 recession, but it appears to be a weird year for some markets. If you are experiencing a slowdown in the industry you are supporting, Nick's advice of just staying in the course, keeping doing the work, and focusing on what you can control can help. Remember that this is cyclical. Building Relationships and Asking Reflective Questions Nick and I also discussed critical topics on relationship-building which includes the value of meeting in person as well as asking the right questions to your clients and candidates. He also emphasized the importance of the ‘respect component' in the recruitment process. He shared these three factors that contribute greatly to his success, and it was an astonishing discussion because, in the end, you will find that these are interrelated to one another. The importance of meeting in person. He shared how he does virtual preps and trying to get back in person for face-to-face meetings. He shares how he has been able to build relationships further due to the emphasis on “IRL meetings” which is much different than just a quick phone call. The respect component goes both ways. Nick elaborated on how he believes respect helps him build a long-term client and candidate base. He specifically mentioned how giving constructive feedback and transparency to candidates is a critical act of respect. Asking the right questions. “Do you want this job?” is an effective question that can be a game changer when building candidate relationships. Nick is not just focused on making placement, instead, he assures all candidates that he wants the best for them by focusing on their long-term growth. Applying the Rule of Ten Nick also shared his 'rule of 10' which helps him to stay on track with his goals and activities. Basically, the premise is that in every ten pieces of activity, you will have one placement. This is how he described it: “In the rule of ten, if you have ten pieces of activity, it's going to lead to one placement, right, so that could be a candidate, so say it's your candidate and your client will count that as two, right, but if you have ten pieces of activity, odds are you're going to, you're going to have one placement and you could get lucky and hit three or four, you could be unlucky and you don't hit any. And where it really gets exciting is if you have, say, when you get up to 20 or 25 pieces of activity all at once.” He uses this goal-oriented way of thinking when training junior recruiters and so far it has been effective in motivating their team to stay on track with activities. Our Sponsor This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you'll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained Nick Cabral Bio and Contact Info Nick started his recruiting career in 2003 and has significant experience working with permanent and contract financial services professionals. Nick has worked with many large financial institutions and small boutique investment managers and has become an integral part of their hiring process. Nick graduated from Bentley University with a degree in Finance and a minor in Philosophy. Nick on LinkedIn Boston Investment Staffing Group website link Non-Profit Organizations that Nick supports: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute website link American Cancer Society website link People and Resources Mentioned Andrea Collabella on LinkedIn Abigail Stevens on LinkedIn Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#167 3 Simple Steps to Increase Your Billings from 6 to 7-Figures, with Andrea Colabella TRR#104 International Recruitment: Hard Won Insights From Placing People Around the World for 25 Years, with Abigail Stevens Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.
Working 100+ hours a week nearly burned Gregg out. If running your recruitment business is stressing you out, Gregg's story may be able to help you. I am pleased to be joined by Gregg Salkovitch. Gregg is intentionally growing his recruitment firm to become a lifestyle business. Along the way, he learned a lot of things to achieve his goal while gaining more lifestyle freedom. You will hear insightful strategies on how Gregg is building his team and delegating tasks. We also discussed why it is critical to hire a COO to help you in scaling your business. After a career as a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg co-founded a sales recruitment agency to combine the 2 things he loves most in business: sales and helping people. In 6 years, Gregg grew his company organically with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success. Episode Outline and Highlights [01:38] Gregg's journey of how he got into recruiting. [04:30] When being laid off is a blessing in disguise. [10:18] Transitioning from individual contributor to a recruitment business owner: Gregg shares the challenges that they overcame. [14:51] Scaling team to 60 people in six years. [17:07] Gregg reveals his key success factors. [20:06] Character over resume: hiring strategies to get the right people. [35:11] Discussion on growth strategies for a lifestyle business. [37:02] When to hire a COO role to scale your business. [42:49] Make less money in the short term to get long-term benefits. [48:04] Transferrable skills from sales to recruiting. [52:57] What is next for Gregg and his business? Getting Laid Off Pushed Gregg Into a Recruiting Career Gregg shared an amazing story of resilience on how he got into the recruiting industry. Getting laid off unexpectedly pushed Gregg into a recruiting career. He loved his sales job and was blindsided when he was laid off after 4 years as a top performer. This made interviewing difficult as he had to overcome the perception that he must have underperformed despite being an actual top performer. He also had non-compete from his old company which prevented him from staying in the same industry. Facing these challenges pushed Greg to explore a new path by using his sales skills to transition into recruiting. This pivot into recruiting ended up being life-changing for Greg's career. You will hear how he used skills he learned from sales to be an effective recruiter. He even leverages his experience of being laid off to engage with candidates. “I think when I speak to candidates and we're seeing more layoffs right now, I have major empathy for them because it's not just like, I've sold like you. I've stood at trade shows for 5 hours like you. I've been laid off like you. And that really helps me, in my opinion, become a better recruiter because I've actually lived it.” Though difficult, getting laid off opened new opportunities that Greg capitalized on. In his words, “It was a blessing in disguise. It was probably the best thing that ever happened.” Character Over Credentials: Building an All-Star Team to Scale Another topic that will also resonate with a lot of business owners is strategies for hiring recruiters and team members to scale. Gregg focuses on hiring people based on character and shared values over resume credentials. He wants people he genuinely enjoys working with. He told the story of how hiring a trusted person without recruiting experience worked well for their business. This strategy works well for Gregg and his team. He has grown his first recruiting company (with no outside funding) to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for Fastest-Growing Companies 3 times! These are some of my takeaways from their strategy: Vetting the work ethic, values, and coachability is crucial Greg wants employees he has a natural rapport A team aligned in values helps ensure an ethical, collaborative culture Why Hiring a COO is Critical If you are a solo recruitment entrepreneur and planning to scale, hiring a COO is critical. This has been true for both Gregg and me, where hiring an effective COO became a game changer. A lot of us may be able to relate to what Gregg said: “I've been doing it by myself for twelve years and I've never really had help. And it's been exhausting. I mean, it's been an amazing ride, but it's been exhausting. And I like to have my recruiters focus on recruiting. I mean, that's what keeps the lights on and not worrying about doing side projects and onboarding employees and dealing with maybe a tough client, which I know is going to wear them down a little bit. So that's why I decided to hire somebody in operations, is that I have my recruiters recruiting. I'm doing everything else, and to do everything else, it's a lot. I just need a helping hand.” Gregg is intentionally growing his firm slowly to have a lifestyle business. Hiring a COO helps him to focus on sales while delegating operations. Offloading operational tasks and delegating things that he does not enjoy doing creates more freedom and a better lifestyle. This resonates well with me. Some business owners may be apprehensive to take this approach because paying someone else can translate to lesser profit. But keep in mind that making less in the short term creates more freedom to earn much more in the long term. Our Sponsor This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you'll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained Gregg Salkovitch Bio and Contact Info After being a top sales performer for 3 consecutive companies, Gregg decided to co-found a company combining the 2 things he loved most in business, sales and helping people. Over 6 year period, Gregg grew this bootstrapped company with no outside funding to 60 employees, reaching the Inc. 5000 for fastest growing companies 3 consecutive times. He then started a separate recruiting company, Right Choice Resources, which specifically focuses on the placement of salespeople, executives, marketing, account management, and customer success. Gregg on LinkedIn Right Choice Resources website link People and Resources Mentioned Allan Fisher on LinkedIn Greg Savage on LinkedIn Paul Warner on LinkedIn Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman and Mark C. Winters Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#166 How to Bill $1,000,000 For Ten Years Straight and Grow a Successful Team, with Allan Fisher TRR#189 Recruiting the Savage Way: Navigating AI, Metrics, and Mindset for Recruitment Success, with Greg Savage TRR#143 How a Competitive Bike Racer Turned Recruiter Built a 7-Figure Staffing Firm in 3 Years, with Paul Warner Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.
Transitioning from a comfortable corporate recruitment career to building an agency is not an obvious choice for many. The risks it entails may even stop some recruiters from considering this transition. Although it may be a significant leap, with the right skills, mindset, and support, it can lead to a rewarding and profitable career change. My special guest, Pat Corrigan, shares his story of how he successfully transitioned and thrived as a recruitment agency owner from being a corporate recruiter for more than a decade. Pat shares the three key factors to his success, as well as the strategies he continues to implement in building his team and driving revenue. Pat is the founder of Palladium Point, a leading executive search firm based in St. Louis, serving the commercial insurance industry nationally. His recruitment career spans fifteen years, and for the past six years has been focused on building high-performing sales teams for leading commercial insurance brokers. After spending years leading the sales recruitment function for a global insurance broker, Pat pursued his entrepreneurial dreams and started his own firm. Since launching in 2022 they've taken off like a rocket. I'm also honored to have Pat as a member of our Inner Circle coaching program. Episode Outline and Highlights [03:03] Pat's Journey into Recruiting - From Corporate Recruitment to Agency Ownership. [12:40] The Bold Leap - Leaving the Comfort of Corporate Life to Establish His Firm - Discover the 3 Key Success Factors. [19:06] Accelerating Revenue Growth and Building a High-Performing Team. [24:17] How Bringing in Operations Personnel and Offshore Sourcers Became a Long-Term Solution for Pat's Business. [32:32] Pat Shares His Proven Client Development Approach. [39:07] Building Sustainable Growth - Implementing Systems and Processes. [49:30] Crafting an Inspiring Vision and Culture. Successful Transition From Corporate Recruitment to Becoming an Agency Owner For 15 years, Pat established himself as a recruitment leader for several corporate staffing firms. He had a colorful career but what resonated with me is his story of how being let go from a previous job was a pivotal moment that led him to where he is today. Pat emphasizes the importance of resilience and learning from every experience. Pat also revealed what prompted him to leave his corporate gig to set up his firm. His strong work ethic and niche expertise are the foundations that enabled his transition. He shared three critical focus areas that have been key to his success: Meticulous Planning - he took time to consult with others and assess potential risks before making his decision. Niche Focus - he leverage on his niche expertise that he had developed for half a decade. Cash Reserves - he understood that starting a business may not always easily take off successfully, so Pat ensured that he had enough cash reserves to hold him over for a while. This indeed is an inspiring story for corporate or in-house recruiters aspiring to become recruitment business owners someday. Strategies for Building a Team and Driving Revenue in a Short Span of Time We then moved on to discuss strategies for building his team and driving revenue in a short span of time. Pat discussed how long he had to work on his own before he started hiring the next person. After around three or four months he started building his team and his first hire was an ops person. How did this decision to hire an operations person impact his business long term? His logic behind it is, as Pat puts it, “If I want to attract, recruiters, or eventually salespeople into my organization, I want to give them the platform to get out there and kick tail. And I didn't want somebody to come in as the first recruiter and say, well, here's your ATS license and your LinkedIn recruiter and Zoom info …I like kind of linear stuff, and I wanted to not rush it. And as we're bringing on talent, I wanted, like, a real solid business platform that people could access” This is remarkable insight. Pat hired an operations person to establish a solid foundation for future growth. This strategic move allowed him to attract recruiters and create a platform that would support their success. The hiring process was focused on setting up systems and structures rather than rushing into recruitment because Pat valued organization and long-term growth potential. Pat then shared strategies in revenue which is focused on his approach to Business Development. Pat shared his perspective on sales which is focused on interaction and relationship building. He also described a Rainmaker Model way of working that enables him to get consistent revenue in running his business. Creating Systems and Processes for Growth Pat also emphasized the importance of putting up systems and processes for a smooth start for new hires. We discussed the platforms and tools they are using - such as Slack, to organize his team. He also shared his approach to having an offshore researcher and sources to help in lead generation. Pat advocates growth not only for his organization but for his team members as well. He highlighted the value of intentionally designing your business' vision and culture to attract top talents aligned with your core values. He believes that having the right tools and working environment in place will help your team grow exponentially. Our Sponsor This podcast is proudly sponsored by i-intro i-intro® is an end-to-end retained recruitment platform. Their technology and methodology allow recruiters to differentiate themselves from the competition, win more retained business, bigger fees, and increase their billings. Their software combined with world-class training enables you to transition from transactional, contingency recruiter to consultative, retained recruiter. Instead of being perceived as a “me too” vendor, you'll be positioned as a “me only” solutions provider. Be sure to mention Mark Whitby or The Resilient Recruiter. Book your free, no-obligation consultation here: https://recruitmentcoach.com/retained Pat Corrigan Bio and Contact Info As the Founder and President of Palladium Point, Pat brings a rich background in recruitment spanning nearly 15 years to the table. His journey began with recruiting top-tier talent for Lockton Companies, the world's largest independent insurance brokerage, where he played a pivotal role in driving industry-leading growth. Fueled by a desire to revitalize the recruitment and talent acquisition landscape within the insurance sector, Pat embarked on the path to establish his own firm. Recognizing the need for a more dynamic and contemporary approach, he envisioned a search firm that would infuse fresh ideas and perspectives into the industry while maintaining a collaborative, human, and intentional ethos. Today, Pat and his team at Palladium Point are trusted partners for insurance organizations navigating the intensely competitive landscape, while also serving as advisors to top talent seeking professional fulfillment. Prior to his venture into the insurance realm, Pat excelled in technology consulting, where he consistently delivered results on challenging recruitment initiatives for global and mid-market organizations. He proudly holds a B.A. in Psychology and Business from the University of Missouri. Pat on LinkedIn Palladium Point website link Palladium Point on LinkedIn People and Resources Mentioned Ravi Tangri on LinkedIn Gail Audibert on LinkedIn Jeremy Sisemore on LinkedIn Joe Rice on LinkedIn Rich Rosen on LinkedIn ClickUp (Project Management Tool) Slack Rad Reads, by Khe Hy Atomic Habits, by James Clear The E-Myth, by Michael Gerber 10x is Easier Than 2x Dan Sullivan Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#155 How to Grow a Recruitment Agency from Start-Up to $3M Profit in Two Years, with Emily Rushton TRR#171 4 Essential Skills that All Recruitment Business Owners Need to Be Successful, with Chris Dinaso Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.
Is implementing KPIs and measuring metrics the same as micromanagement? Measuring activities is fundamental to evaluating how effective your strategies are in running your recruitment business. However, there are some recruiters and business owners who are apprehensive about implementing metrics measurements and KPIs. Is that the same for your recruitment business? What are the metrics and KPIs that we should measure? How do we implement a KPI and data-driven environment without giving the vibe that team members are being micromanaged? How do you communicate the intent and purpose of your KPIs to your team members? In this episode, Greg Savage explained why it is not about micromanaging and discusses metrics that empower talents. On top of this, you will also hear insightful takes on critical trends in AI and technology, and why your mindset is the key in your recruitment career success. I am delighted to welcome the legendary Greg Savage to give us a reality check and revisit the pillars leading to recruitment success. Greg has four decades of experience owning, managing, and growing staffing businesses across the world. He's the founder of four highly successful businesses; Recruitment Solutions (took to IPO). Firebrand Talent Search (trade sale), Eloquent Staffing (trade sale), and People2People. Greg still takes an active interest in founding and growing recruitment businesses, investing in recruitment start-ups in Australia and the UK. He's a LinkedIn Top Voices and has been inducted into the Recruiter International Hall of Fame. He's founder of The Savage Recruitment Academy, and author of the best-selling book, The Savage Truth, and has recently published a new book called Recruit The Savage Way. Episode Outline and Highlights [03:06] Greg and I delved into the essence of authentic leadership. [05:44] Exploring the four key factors for achieving success in the recruitment field. [11:01] Strategies for overcoming complacency and avoiding contentment with the status quo. [15:00] Greg shared his insights on the importance of continuous learning and how he benefits from nano degrees. [18:40] Greg's valuable insights into the impact of AI on the recruitment industry. [29:41] Technological innovations that enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of recruitment. [32:08] Conversation about activities and key performance indicators (KPIs) and their role in achieving success in recruitment. [39:08] Exploring the best practices for effectively managing KPIs in recruitment. [47:52] Greg shared his perspectives on career development opportunities for recruiters. [57:00] Analysis of the economic landscape in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Mindset, Attitude, and Resilience to Become a Successful Recruiter I have always valued Greg as a mentor all these years. With over four decades of phenomenal success in the recruitment industry, he is an established authority when it comes to sharing wisdom with aspiring recruiters and business owners. He has recently published a book, Recruit the Savage Way, which offers “practical advice, skills, and attitudes and will give rookies an excellent grounding to thrive in their new career and help veterans brush up and add new competencies.” We have talked about the first section which is on mindset and attitude. Greg said that one of the big reasons for the high turnover in the staffing and recruitment industry is because of the wrong attitude and mindset towards the industry. He mentioned the fallacy of believing that “recruitment is not rocket science,” because it is a complex, sophisticated job. Greg believes that the mindset and attitude factors are something that can be corrected early on. Like skills and competencies, mindset and attitude can also be honed and trained. He emphasized four factors: Believe in your value as a recruiter Believe in the value that you can deliver to your stakeholders Having that true resilience - which he refers to as the bounce-back ability Overcoming the threat of complacency Greg also shared insightful principles on what true resilience looks like for recruiters. He elaborated on the value of emotions and moving on with positivity. You will also appreciate how he defines complacency in the recruitment field. Activities and KPIs are Critical For Recruitment Success There is a section in Greg's new book about the reality check on the importance of activities and KPIs to recruitment success. Greg elaborated on the two fundamental things to be successful in the business: “The first thing is if you don't do enough stuff in this business, you will fail.” “You cannot get better at something unless you measure it.” Greg and I talked about the myth that measuring your metrics and KPIs is synonymous with micromanagement. As Greg said, “There is no sports person or academic or anyone who doesn't measure their outputs and then try to work on improving them. So I mean, the problem with... most KPIs is that they are foisted on people with no consideration to where those people are up to, not explained why they're important.” Greg shared his advice to recruitment business owners on how to implement KPIs in a healthy working environment. Insightful Take on Career Development for Recruiters Greg also discussed a topic that deeply resonated with me: career development for recruiters and recruitment business owners. You will hear his thoughts on the threat of complacency. As he simply puts it, 10 years of experience is just 1 year of recruitment experience repeated 10 times if you are complacent. How do we overcome the trap of complacency and move forward with development? Continuous Learning. Greg is an advocate of continuous learning. He shared how he benefits from taking “nano degrees” to stay up to date with recent trades, such as AI. Owning Your Development. This is how Greg wittily describes it, “There is no one, nobody having sleepless nights about your career. Okay, maybe your mom, but nobody else is having sleepless nights about your career. Even a company that is going to help develop you, you've got to be dreaming if you think they're worried about where you're going to be in 15 years. And nor should they. You've got to worry about your career and you've got to take ownership of your career.” Do Not Only Think of Your Career as a Hierarchical One. Greg shared successful recruiters who have had satisfying careers by focusing on and growing the career of becoming a recruiter by itself. My takeaway from this is that appreciating the sense of progress honing your craft and seeing your results increase is extremely satisfying. Greg Savage Bio and Contact Info With a career spanning four decades, Greg is a founder of 4 highly successful businesses, a trusted advisor and respected voice across the global recruitment and professional services industries, and a regular keynote speaker at conferences around the world. Throughout his fascinating career, Greg has learned countless lessons in leadership, business, and life. One of his greatest achievements is his success as a communicator. An early adopter of social media for recruiters, Greg's industry blog, The Savage Truth, is a must-read in the recruitment industry. In November 2018, he was named one of LinkedIn's ‘Top Voices'. Greg's website link Greg on LinkedIn Greg on Facebook Greg on Twitter @greg_savage Greg on Instagram: @gregsavagetruth Greg on Youtube People and Resources Mentioned Driving performance with recruitment metrics and KPIs Greg's Masterclass: Recruit - The Savage Way: A recruitment masterclass series from Greg Savage Greg's new book: Recruit the Savage Way Recruitment Coach Live Summit in Florida - recruitmentcoach.com/florida Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Related Podcast You Might Enjoy TRR#1 The Future of Recruitment: Strategies To Stay Relevant and Effective, with Greg Savage TRR#64 The Recruiter Roadmap to Recovery: How to Thrive in a Post-Pandemic World, with Greg Savage Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you've been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters. “Support the podcast and leave a review here”.
Retailers are facing a potential economic event, and the wildcard is predicting what consumers will do. Most Americans are in credit card debt, prices are higher than last year, pandemic savings are dwindling; and student loan repayments hit in October, just in time for holidays. Join Robin, Shelley, and TRR's own reporter Pam Danziger who is an internationally recognized researcher, speaker, and author. Check out her article on TRR's site, Get Ready for the Weather to Turn. They discuss why the current economic landscape is worrisome for retailers. Listen in and learn how to prepare for a rocky fall/winter selling season.For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Meet Rati Sahi Levesque, President and Chief Operating Officer at The RealReal. Rati worked with her co-founder Julie Wainwright to grow the business from the ground up, all the way to taking the company public in 2019, while fundamentally transforming the retail industry. Rati's journey is a true testament to resilience. Raised in a hardworking environment, her entrepreneurial spirit was nurtured from a young age as she observed her parents deal with the demands of being small business owners. Rati faced her own challenges as she strived to reconcile her dual identity - as an American and as the child of Indian immigrants. These life experiences gave birth to her tenacity, forcing her to adapt quickly and constantly push the boundaries - whether it was dealing with rejection by investors, learning to level up as a leader in fast growing business, or making timely and tough decisions on a daily basis. Tune in and learn from Rati's extraordinary journey of defying the odds and building a thriving business with over 32M members. In this episode, you will uncover the secret to making effective trade-offs in the face of complex problems, and how resilience triggers personal growth and drives success despite challenges. Visit gobeyondbarriers.com, where you will find show notes and links to all the resources in this episode, including the best way to get in touch with Rati. Highlights: [03:02] What shaped Rati [07:43] Early career clarity [11:19] Knowing your value [14:30] Obstacles and fears Rati has overcome [17:33] Staying focused during volatile times and during setbacks [20:37] Making key decisions [23:30] The type of people that make you better [27:14] Getting by early on [28:29] Shifting to lead a larger organization [33:38] Having mostly female employees [35:55] Top 3 things to focus on [37:13] Rati's company's vision and how it drives their values [33:16] Building key business relationships [44:47] Lightning round questions Quotes: “Have a bias toward action.” – Rati Sahi Levesque “If you're not staying up at night thinking “Oh I really wish we could do this one thing for ourselves”, then you're not making trade offs.” – Rati Sahi Levesque “Sometimes you have to go on that journey of self-discovery to find your group, your people, and build resilience.” - Rati Sahi Lavesque “Being honest with yourself is the key to personal growth and success.” - Rati Sahi Lavesque “Believe in your vision, lead with data, and push through barriers to achieve your goals.” - Rati Sahi Lavesque Lightning Round Questions: What book has greatly influenced you? - “Circe” by Madeline Miller What is your favorite inspiring quote or saying? - "Between stimulus and response, there's space, and that space is our power to choose our response, and in our response lies our growth and our freedom.” What is one word or moniker you would use to describe yourself? - Resilient What is one change you've implemented that made your life better? - Little things like sleeping, taking walks, or getting a massage. What power song would you want playing as you walk out onto a stage? - Anything by M.I.A. About Rati Sahi Levesque: As President and Chief Operating Officer, Rati oversees the company's revenue channels and operations, including its rigorous authentication process, machine learning and AI tech developments, its operation centers and retail footprints, its team of master authenticators and experts, as well as its marketing and merchandising functions. In her tenure, Rati has developed a playbook when it comes to resale, helping teams including merchandising, operations, sales, retail and marketing understand how to leverage technology to scale TRR through all of its functions and channels. She has leveraged technology to lead the company to where it is today, helping to attract 32.5M+ members, keep 32.7M+ luxury items in circulation, and pay a total of more than $3.4B in cumulative commission payouts. Links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rati-sahi-levesque-782b824/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealrati/
For mid-tier fashion specialty retail, it's gone, baby gone. This sector is really struggling. With the proliferation of the internet and so many fashion startup companies, the democratization of fashion has become ubiquitous. Join Robin Lewis and Shelley E. Kohan, TRR's chief strategist, as they dig into the potential demise of mid-tier fashion specialty stores. For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts.Be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter for the latest from Robin Lewis and The Robin Report.
Even with the addition of Sephora and Amazon return centers, will it be enough to turn the struggling retailer around? Heavy inventory coming out of 2022 and a loss of $19 million to the bottom line make 2023 a challenging year. Meanwhile, CEO Kingsbury wants to pull back on couponing, which is a key driver for its loyal, high-frequency customer. Will this land them on the same road as Bed, Bath, and Beyond? Join Robin Lewis and Shelley E. Kohan, TRR's chief strategist, as they dissect what is happening at Kohl's For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts.Be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter for the latest from Robin Lewis and The Robin Report.
It's that time again...we've got a Live Talkback with the TRR team on our books for Wednesday, May 24th at 7pm PT on the Quests and Chaos Twitch! Hit up any of our socials for the link to submit your burning questions (heh) and we hope to see you there!
Episode 210: Nat's back to chat this week and is coming to you live from the comfort of her car. After a week-long trip to NYC, Nat is back in the driver's seat (literally) and feeling all kinds of emotions. Nat dives into how surreal this trip was, breaking down the details of Rella's collab with Discord and the pinch-me event they had the pleasure of putting on while they were there. But the real topic of discussion is imposter syndrome. As the founder of a startup and a content creator, Nat often feels like a fraud, but today she's sharing why this trip has been an awakening for her and her new-found perspective. She also opens up about her journey with confidence, emphasizing what she's learned and providing tips to help navigate it. So grab your coffee, catch up with Nat, and tune in for a quick but quality pep talk on overcoming self-doubt in all aspects of your life! Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Osea - Get 10% off when you go to Oseamalibu.com and use code REALREEL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 209: This week, Natalie has the pleasure of sitting down with a guest who is quite literally nailing it at life—none other than the founder and CEO of Glosslab, Rachel Apfel Glass. Rachel shares her entrepreneurial journey, from a cushy job in finance to taking the leap and starting Glosslab. She discusses her vision for an elevated, efficient, and Instagram-worthy nail salon experience and some of the challenges she's faced as a solo founder. With a clear vision of creating the "Starbucks of nail salons", Rachel shares insights on building a solid brand, disrupting the nail industry, and the importance of community in Glosslab's success. Tune in for some valuable and inspiring advice from a trailblazing entrepreneur! Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow Rachel @rachaglass and check out Glosslab @glosslab Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Osea - Get 10% off when you go to Oseamalibu.com and use code REALREEL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 208: Natalie is having a major pinch me moment this week as the opportunity to connect with CEO, author, and marketing guru, the incredible Tina Wells. Tina shares her inspiring journey from answering an ad in the back of 17 Magazine to becoming a successful entrepreneur and author of over 20 books (yes, you read that right!). Tina discusses her "elevation approach," which is a game-changer for anyone who feels stuck in their corporate job and is looking for a way to take their career to the next level. She emphasizes the importance of taking breaks and finding sources of inspiration in everyday moments, so you can always show up as your best self. Tina's infectious energy and practical tips will leave you feeling empowered to make positive changes in your life. So tune in, laugh along with Nat and Tina, and let her wisdom inspire you to find work-life harmony and achieve the dreams you've been putting off! Today's episode dives into: The 17 Magazine ad that sparked Tina's entrepreneurial spirit How the support of her parents laid the groundwork for her success An in-depth breakdown of The Elevation Approach and what it means Her journey as an author of over 20 books and counting Tips for minimizing burnout and integrating the elevation approach into your own life Why she prefers to use the word "harmony" instead of "balance" Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow Tina @tinawells and find her books at www.tinawells.com Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: Athletic Greens – Get a FREE 1 year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free travel packs with your first purchase when you go to athleticgreens.com/REALREEL Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Osea - Get 10% off when you go to Oseamalibu.com and use code REALREEL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 207: This week, Natalie's sitting down with a beloved guest who has already passed the vibe check. That's right, Emily Duong is back on the podcast! She's known as the host of the "What Fulfils You" podcast and founder of Elite Skate Wear, but let's not forget her real talent: flirting. In this episode, Emily shares her secrets to taking risks in all areas of life (like approaching men at the bar) without getting bogged down by the "what ifs", practicing Stoicism, and putting your ego aside to achieve your goals. She also discusses how to deal with rejection and find the sweet spot between confidence and humility. Even after leaving the Amish capital of America, where her hometown only had 8,000 people, Emily's story is a reminder that anything is possible if you don't give up. So, if you're looking for some motivation, words of wisdom, and a healthy dose of wit and laughter between two gal-pals, tune in to hear Emily and Nat swap stories on growing up with immigrant parents, letting go of resentment, finding grounding practices, and living life without regrets. Today's episode dives into: Emily's journey with skating and if she has any regrets from her experience The breakup that altered her mindset and formed who she is today What it's like to grow up with immigrant parents and the impact if can have on your adult life Her thoughts on the Kardashians and why she's never put them on a pedestal Growing up in the Amish capital of America and defying the odds of making it out Tips and mindset practices for dealing with rejection How to know when you've found your people in life Navigating grudges and learning how to let go of resentment The importance of finding your own individual grounding practice Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow Emily at @emilyeduong and check out Elite Skate Wear Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: Athletic Greens – Get a FREE 1 year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free travel packs with your first purchase when you go to athleticgreens.com/REALREEL Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Osea - Get 10% off when you go to Oseamalibu.com and use code REALREEL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 206: Prepare to have your confidence and social media game boosted this week. On her most recent trip to NYC, Nat had the opportunity to sit down in person with fellow content creator, confidence coach, and ex-reality TV star, Victoria Alario, and the two are serving up a heaping dose of social media realness. From starting a podcast to dishing out tough love on Instagram, Victoria shares how she's formed an authentic personal brand and made a name for herself in the social media space. She also discusses how she continued the growth of her following and brand after the initial wave from being on reality TV. The two swap stories of their social media experiences and discuss the importance of being yourself, leading with confidence, ignoring the haters, and pivoting when necessary. With a healthy dose of humor and tough love, these ladies will have you feeling like a boss in no time. Today's episode dives into: How to find your edge as a content creator and staying true to your passion Victoria's relationship with confidence and where it's led her Pivoting and finding a realistic niche as a content creator The beauty of growing up and adopting a more confident mindset Why cyberbullies are actually super cringe-worthy Victoria's advice for anyone struggling with finding the confidence to chase their dreams Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow Victoria @victoria.alario and check out @vicsenthelabel Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: The Farmers Dog - Get 50% off and free shipping on your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com/REALREEL Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Osea - Get 10% off when you go to Oseamalibu.com and use code REALREEL Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 205: As someone who was always terrified of getting her lips done, Natalie knows the importance of finding someone you trust to get the job done so you can look and feel your absolute best. On this episode, Nat is sitting down with Marissa Barrionuevo, a friend and her own physician assistant who specializes in cosmetic procedures. Marissa shares her journey of how she discovered her passion for aesthetics and how she strives to help her patients feel confident and beautiful while maintaining a natural look. The two discuss the importance of being honest with clients, the dangers of chasing trends, and the toxic beauty standards perpetuated by social media filters. Marissa also shares some valuable life lessons she's learned in her 20s, including the importance of finding your inner confidence and not caring about what others think. Whether you're considering getting cosmetic work done or are just curious about the industry, this episode offers a candid, unique, and insightful look into the world of aesthetics. Today's episode dives into: How Natalie became one of Marissa's clients Marissa's journey to becoming a PA and how she found herself in cosmetics Why she has no problem saying no to her clients before they go overboard Comparison and the influence social media has had on the world of aesthetics The art of finding and balancing confidence The role social media has played in her career Navigating real life and online mean girls Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow Marissa and book with @marissathepa Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: The Farmers Dog - Get 50% off and free shipping on your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com/REALREEL Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 204: This week, Nat's chatting with you live on video from Raleigh, NC! For her first ever video recording, she's diving into a frequent question found in her DMs and a niche topic she knows she may receive some heat for—her opinion on living in major, sought-after cities in the U.S. As someone who has lived in hotspots like Charlotte, Los Angeles, New York, and Miami, Nat has personal insight on the great and not-so-great qualities of each destination, and she's getting real (reel) about them all. Like why she'll never call L.A. home, the shockingly hot food scene in Charlotte, her overall obsession with NYC, and the quality of life she's found for herself in Miami. Tune in and join Nat on a nostalgic trip down memory lane, because, who knows, maybe you'll even be inspired to make your next move. Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: The Farmers Dog - Get 50% off and free shipping on your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com/REALREEL Supergut - Head over to Supergut.com and use code REALREEL to save 20% off your order Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Episode 203: New month, new podcast set-up! This week, Nat is over the moon to be recording from her new and improved podcast space in Miami, kicking this exciting chapter off with an episode you won't want to miss. For the inaugural in-person recording, she's joined by Tree3's CEO, the incredible Katina Kenyon. With over 20 years of experience under her belt in corporate America, from leading high-power teams on a global scale at companies like Dell, founding her own company, and now taking over as CEO for Tree3, Katina is a wealth of knowledge and dynamic experience. Unlike the usual CEOs we encounter, she was hired on to take over the role at someone else's company, offering a unique perspective and insight on the position that isn't frequently discussed. The energy in the room is palpable as the two swap stories about their perspectives on the corporate world vs. the #startuplife, sharing their wisdom and sage advice for the aspiring entrepreneurs out there. Today's episode dives into: Katina's early days as a leader and her perspective on what it means to be one The fruitful benefits of working for a major corporation Networking and the influence it's had on her career trajectory Leaving her role at Dell and founding her own company A breakdown of Tree3's business structure and the process of becoming their CEO Utilizing user feedback and the importance of pivoting as a business How to build a thriving team both in person and remotely Katina's true thoughts on the concept of "quiet quitting" The main differences she's seen working at both large corporations and start-ups Her advice for aspiring leaders currently working in the corporate world Thank you so much for being a part of our podcast community! Please be sure to rate, follow, review, and of course, post to your highlight reel. Follow your host Natalie on Instagram @nataliebarbu and @therealreelpodcast. Follow tree3 and check out tree3.com Thank you to our sponsors for making this episode possible. Check out these deals just for you: The Farmers Dog - Get 50% off and free shipping on your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com/REALREEL Supergut - Head over to Supergut.com and use code REALREEL to save 20% off your order Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only five dollars at Apostrophe.com/REALREEL when you use our code: REALREEL Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/realreel Rothy's - Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/TRR. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Welcome to the fifth episode of The Edge Work Podcast, where Zack Bodenstein, David Pagnotta, and Dennis Bernstein dive into the world of hockey. In this week's episode, the hosts start off by reacting to the trade that went down Friday night between the St. Louis Blues and the Toronto Maple Leafs with Ryan O'Reilly and Noel Acciari on the move. They discuss how this trade may impact both teams' trade deadlines with Toronto pushed up against the cap it will be hard for them to acquire another player meanwhile the Blues may have entered the Chychurn sweepstakes with the amount of draft capital they have accumulated. From there the discussion moves to different targets specifically on defenceman and some goalies that could be on the move. To wrap things up, the hosts discuss the Norris race, with Erik Karlsson vaulting past Cale Makar and being the odds-on favorite, is there any value in betting the field in the hopes that trade to a contending team may derail Erik Karlsson's Norris caliber season?
On today's #TheRalphReport : Raising money for Alzheimer's research! The missing link to TV TUNES TUESDAY! And, a TRR interview w/ the director and subject of the new documentary film about a reluctant Batman fan: "BATMAN AND ME" Subscribe: www.patreon.com/theralphreport
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