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Useful links to books related to the episodes: Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by JD Vance https://amzn.to/48ztT22 (Amazon) Explores Vance's early life, family, and cultural background, offering context for his perspectives on politics and society. Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything about Race, Gender, and Identity – and Why This Harms Everybody by Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay https://amzn.to/3NRdBYX (Amazon) Explores the development of critical theories and their cultural impact, providing context for discussions on modern ideologies. American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump by Tim Alberta https://amzn.to/3AtVjKg (Amazon) Examines recent shifts in American politics, exploring cultural and economic factors shaping national policy. www.JREreview.com For all marketing questions and inquiries: JRERmarketing@gmail.com This week we discuss Joe's podcast guests as always. Review Guest list: JD Vance and Triggernometry A portion of ALL our SPONSORSHIP proceeds goes to Justin Wren and his Fight for the Forgotten charity!! Go to Fight for the Forgotten to donate directly to this great cause. This commitment is for now and forever. They will ALWAYS get money as long as we run ads so we appreciate your support too as you listeners are the reason we can do this. Thanks! Stay safe.. Follow me on Instagram at www.instagram.com/joeroganexperiencereview Please email us here with any suggestions, comments and questions for future shows.. Joeroganexperiencereview@gmail.com

Israel attacks Hezbollah, the soul of MAGA, and Olivia Nuzzi.  Find us on Youtube. This week, we are joined by Jonathan Schanzer (senior vice president of research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies) to talk about Israel's attacks in Lebanon. Then, Tim Alberta of The Atlantic joins to explore the soul of MAGA, and finally, Mike and Clarissa discuss shamelessness in the scandalous story of Olivia Nuzzi. “The Soul of MAGA” by Mike Cosper Boz Tchividjian discusses sexual abuse in episode 87 GO DEEPER WITH THE BULLETIN: Follow the show in your podcast app of choice. Find us on YouTube. Rate and review the show in your podcast app of choice. Leave a comment in Spotify with your feedback on the discussion—we may even respond! Subscribe to Christianity Today Magazine TODAY'S GUESTS:  Jonathan Schanzer, PhD, is senior vice president for research at Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), where he oversees the work of the organization's experts and scholars. He is also on the leadership team of FDD's Center on Economic and Financial Power. He previously worked as a terrorism finance analyst at the US Department of the Treasury. Schanzer has written hundreds of articles, monographs, and chapters for edited volumes on the Middle East. His book, Hamas vs. Fatah: The Struggle for Palestine, analyzes the ongoing Palestinian civil war. Schanzer testifies often before Congress and publishes widely in American and international media. He has appeared on Fox News, CNN Al-Arabiya, and Al-Jazeera. Tim Alberta is a staff writer at The Atlantic. He was previously the chief political correspondent for Politico. He is also the author of American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. ABOUT THE BULLETIN: The Bulletin is a weekly (and sometimes more!) current events show from Christianity Today hosted and moderated by Clarissa Moll, with senior commentary from Russell Moore (Christianity Today's editor in chief) and Mike Cosper (director, CT Media). Each week, the show explores current events and breaking news and shares a Christian perspective on issues that are shaping our world. We also offer special one-on-one conversations with writers, artists, and thought leaders whose impact on the world brings important significance to a Christian worldview, like Bono, Sharon McMahon, Harrison Scott Key, Frank Bruni, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kamala Harris' VP Pick and Iran's impending attack. Find us on Youtube. Russell, Clarissa, and Mike welcome Tim Alberta (The Atlantic) to review the Democrats' vice presidential candidate Tim Walz and discuss the impending attack on Israel from Iran with David French (New York Times). GO DEEPER WITH THE BULLETIN: Follow the show in your podcast app of choice Find us on Youtube. Episode 97 referenced: “We're Not Gonna Take It”  Rate and Review the show in your podcast app of choice Leave a comment in Spotify with your feedback on the discussion–we may even respond! TODAY'S GUESTS:  Tim Alberta is a staff writer at The Atlantic. He was previously the chief political correspondent for Politico. He is also the author of American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. David French is a columnist for the New York Times. He's a former senior editor of The Dispatch. He's the author most recently of Divided We Fall: America's Secession Threat and How to Restore Our Nation. ABOUT THE BULLETIN: The Bulletin is a weekly (and sometimes more!) current events show from Christianity Today hosted and moderated by Clarissa Moll, with senior commentary from Russell Moore (Christianity Today's Editor-in-Chief) and Mike Cosper (Director, CT Media). Each week the show explores current events and breaking news and shares a Christian perspective on issues that are shaping our world. We also offer special one-on-one conversations with writers, artists, and thought leaders whose impact on the world brings important significance to a Christian worldview, like Bono, Harrison Scott Key, Frank Bruni, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Trump campaign isn't just expecting to win this election; it's expecting to win it in a landslide. And top Trump campaign officials were feeling that confident even before Joe Biden's disastrous debate performance. So what's their strategy to achieve the blowout they're imagining? And is their confidence justified?Tim Alberta is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.” He recently spent months profiling Trump's campaign managers, Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita. In this conversation, Alberta offers an inside look at the Trump campaign and their theory of victory. We discuss how the campaign has tailored its messaging to capitalize on Joe Biden's weaknesses; LaCivita's and Wiles's personal backgrounds and approaches to the campaign; what Trump's vice-presidential pick, Senator J.D. Vance, signals about Trump's vision for his presidency; and more.Mentioned:“Trump Is Planning for a Landslide Win” by Tim Alberta“How J.D. Vance Won Over Donald Trump” by Jonathan Swan and Maggie HabermanBook Recommendations:Tired of Winning by Jonathan KarlKingdom of Rage by Elizabeth NeumannRomney by McKay CoppinsThoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show's production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

Tim Alberta is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. He formerly served as chief political correspondent for POLITICO. In 2019, he published the critically acclaimed book, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump" and co-moderated the year's final Democratic presidential debate aired by PBS Newshour. His recent book is The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, and it forms the basis of our conversation about the evangelical church and its quest for cultural and political power. Get a FREE one year supply of vitamin D plus 5 travel packs! https://www.drinkag1.com/TITR Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw

Tim Alberta is not only an excellent writer, he's also a practicing Christian and the son of an Evangelical pastor. So it's no wonder his recent book THE KINGDOM, THE POWER AND THE GLORY struck such a nerve as it "paints an expansive and profoundly troubling portrait of the American evangelical movement."   It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics    We're joined by Tim Alberta upon the publication of his new book, The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. After starting out with some fun banter about Tim's beloved Detroit Lions and veering off into kids' names, we delve into weighty topics such as whether Tim still considers himself an #evangelical - more specifically, if there are aspects of his faith he's begun to question. Much of this conversation is about the new book: "The main thing is no longer the main thing" for so many megachurch pastors; Donald Trump is "a creation of the culture gone crazy" (especially in the American Evangelical church); whether hucksters like Trump and Paula White, when they're behind closed doors, laugh at all their "suckers" that buy into their various schemes; who Tim thinks is the audience for THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY - and who he hopes the audience is; and we get to hear some input from Charles Mingus the 3rd!   Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico, and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump and the newly released The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. He co-moderated the final Democratic presidential debate of 2019 and frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. And as listeners will quickly learn, Tim is a big time Detroit Lions fan.   Let us know what you think. You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.   Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.   Very grateful for our sponsor Meza Wealth Management. Reach out to Jorge and his team: www.mezawealth.com   www.bytimalberta.com/   www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X   www.theatlantic.com/author/tim-alberta/

Tim Alberta is not only an excellent writer, he's also a practicing Christian and the son of an Evangelical pastor. So it's no wonder his recent book THE KINGDOM, THE POWER AND THE GLORY struck such a nerve as it "paints an expansive and profoundly troubling portrait of the American evangelical movement."   It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics    We're joined by Tim Alberta upon the publication of his new book, The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. After starting out with some fun banter about Tim's beloved Detroit Lions and veering off into kids' names, we delve into weighty topics such as whether Tim still considers himself an #evangelical - more specifically, if there are aspects of his faith he's begun to question. Much of this conversation is about the new book: "The main thing is no longer the main thing" for so many megachurch pastors; Donald Trump is "a creation of the culture gone crazy" (especially in the American Evangelical church); whether hucksters like Trump and Paula White, when they're behind closed doors, laugh at all their "suckers" that buy into their various schemes; who Tim thinks is the audience for THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY - and who he hopes the audience is; and we get to hear some input from Charles Mingus the 3rd!   Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico, and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump and the newly released The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. He co-moderated the final Democratic presidential debate of 2019 and frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. And as listeners will quickly learn, Tim is a big time Detroit Lions fan.   Let us know what you think. You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.   Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.   Very grateful for our sponsor Meza Wealth Management. Reach out to Jorge and his team: www.mezawealth.com   www.bytimalberta.com/   www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X   www.theatlantic.com/author/tim-alberta/

Frank Schaeffer In Conversation with Journalist and Author, Tim Alberta, exploring his work and the themes of his new book, The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism._____LINKShttps://www.bytimalberta.comBOOKSThe Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremismhttps://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1704411722&sr=8-1American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trumphttps://www.amazon.com/American-Carnage-Front-Republican-President/dp/006289644X/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1704411784&sr=8-1_____Tim Alberta is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. He formerly served as chief political correspondent for POLITICO. In 2019, he published the critically acclaimed book, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump" and co-moderated the year's final Democratic presidential debate aired by PBS Newshour. His new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism is available now._____I have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said.Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth.Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of Fall In Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy. Learn more at https://www.lovechildrenplanet.comFollow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and YouTube. https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTube In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer PodcastLove In Common Podcast with Frank Schaeffer, Ernie Gregg, and Erin Bagwell

Chris Beem talks with journalist Tim Alberta about the role that Evangelical Christians play in the Republican Party — and what that means for the future of American democracy.Alberta is a staff writer at The Atlantic and author of the books The Kingdom, The Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age  of Extremism and American Carnage: On the Front  Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. He's also the son of an evangelical pastor. This conversation covers both books and how the evangelical movement and the Republican party have been corrupted. They also discuss the role that religion should play in politics, and Alberta's answer might surprise you.

American Christianity enjoys a great deal of power and influence at home and abroad. Is the church better for it? Is the world better for it? Or is Christian Nationalism just another idolatry—a temptation to take up the sword instead of taking up the cross? Journalist Tim Alberta (The Atlantic, POLITICO) joins Evan Rosa for a discussion of his new book, The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. Tim explains his reporting on American Evangelicalism from 2019 through 2023 as well as his own Christian faith and spiritual background. He also reflects on a variety of challenging issues that influence life far upstream from political theatre, including:how faith matures or erodesthe impact of Constantinian Christianity and the Christian embrace of power, influence, and glory in American public lifethe difference between Christ and Christendom, and our allegiance to one or the otherand the meaning and unique threat of idolatry—which takes on a unique form in contemporary American life.Show ArtGrégoire Guérard, “The Arrest of Christ”, circa 1520-1522, Musée des Beaux-Arts, Dijon, FranceAbout Tim AlbertaVisit Tim's personal website for more of his writing, or follow him on X/Twitter.Tim Alberta is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. He formerly served as chief political correspondent for POLITICO. In 2019, he published the critically acclaimed book, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump" and co-moderated the year's final Democratic presidential debate aired by PBS Newshour.Hailing from Brighton, Michigan, Tim attended Schoolcraft College and later Michigan State University, where his plans to become a baseball writer were changed by a stint covering the legislature in Lansing. He went on to spend more than a decade in Washington, reporting for publications including the Wall Street Journal, The Hotline, National Journal and National Review. Having covered the biggest stories in national politics—the battles over health care and immigration on Capitol Hill; the election and presidency of Donald Trump; the ideological warfare between and within the two parties—Tim was eager for a new challenge.In 2019, he moved home to Michigan. Rather than cover the 2020 campaign through the eyes of the candidates, Tim roved the country and reported from gun shows and farmers markets, black cookouts and white suburbs, crowded wholesale stores and shuttered small businesses. He wrote a regular "Letter to Washington" that kept upstream from politics, focusing less on manifest partisan divisions and more on elusive root causes: the hollowing out of communities, the diminished faith in vital institutions, the self-perpetuating cycle of cultural antagonism, the diverging economic realities for wealthy and working-class citizens, the rapid demographic makeover of America—and the corollary spikes in racism and xenophobia.Tim joined The Atlantic in March 2021 with a mandate to keep roaming and writing and telling stories that strike at the heart of America's discontent. His work has been featured in dozens of other publications nationwide, including Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair, and he frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. Tim's first book, "American Carnage," debuted at No. 1 and No. 2 on the Washington Post and New York Times best-seller lists, respectively. He lives in southeast Michigan with his wife, three sons, and German Shepherd.Show NotesTim Alberta, The Kingdom, the Power, and the GloryIntellectually re-examining the faith of childhoodA generational disillusionment in today's exit from ChristianityGenerational break in attitude & behaviorDistance from the moral majority generation to evaluate criticallyInverse relationship where the more one learns about Christ, the less they like ChristianityThe creation of the secular, evil “other”“They created this other, this outsider, this enemy that had to be defeated.”Current American Christianity is often looking to find our identities on the good side of zero-sum equation.Shrinking our theology into something pathetic and miniscule.St. Augustine, St. Paul, and C.S. Lewis“One way to find meaning is to locate an enemy.”From Cal Thomas's Blinded by Might” —”Unless you have the power to right every wrong and cure every ill and what better way to do that than with An all powerful God on your side.”The church most often seems to thrive when it is at the margins.“We can understand the relationship between this lust for dominance in our, in a society, the inverse relationship between that lust for dominance and the health of the church.”Satan's temptation of Christ in the Gospel of Luke—the temptation to bow down.St. Peter, “Blessed are you Simon bar Jonah…” and then… “Get behind me Satan.”Reaching for the sword versus reaching for the crossThe impact of Constantinian ChristianityJohn Dixon's Bullies and SaintsConstantine wielding Christianity to dominate—the imposition of Christian faith“Is Christianity an end or is it a means to an end?”“It's easy to forget about the teachings of Christ if you are preoccupied with the, crusades of Christianity”“An idol is something that starts as a good and healthy thing, but then becomes the ultimate thing.”America as a kingdomAmerican Christendom as a source of idolatryBaptizing the American experience and pastE.g., Thomas Jefferson, Donald Trump, and Paula White“The other part of it that I find to be uniquely problematic and sometimes just downright gross, is this willful merging of scripture with the American mythos.”Mike Pence, and “Let us set our eyes on Old Glory.”“Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever.”An age of gnawing unknownsTim Alberta's reflections on his father“Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus.”The influence of Jesus's life and teaching“We are in sales, not management.”Production NotesThis podcast featured Tim AlbertaEdited and Produced by Evan RosaHosted by Evan RosaProduction Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, and Tim BergelandA Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/aboutSupport For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Tim Alberta is a staff writer at The Atlantic and the author of the great new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. You can get your copy here. He was previously the chief political correspondent for Politico. He is also the author of American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. In this episode Alberta, a former seminarian and son of an evangelical pastor, discusses his personal experience with evangelical faith and the intersection of faith and politics. He explores the influence of evangelicalism on American politics, particularly in relation to Donald Trump and the rise of Christian nationalism. Alberta argues that the politicization of faith has had a negative impact on the church, leading to a decline in religious identification and attendance. He also addresses the role of race in the evangelical movement and the challenges of reconciling politics with the teachings of Jesus. Today's Bill Press Pod is supported by The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, America's largest and most diverse union. More information at Teamster.org.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Guest Bios Show Transcript How did loving your enemies—a command of Jesus—suddenly become a sign that you're “woke”? And why is “owning the libs” now the answer to “What would Jesus do?”  On this edition of The Roys Report, bestselling author and journalist Tim Alberta joins host Julie Roys to explore a disturbing phenomenon in American evangelicalism. Though once evangelicals understood that the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man were separate, now the two are being combined into an unholy mix. And sadly, for millions of conservative Christians, America is their kingdom—and proper adherence to their political ideology is their litmus test for Christian orthodoxy! On this podcast, you'll hear Julie's compelling conversation with Tim, exploring how evangelicals got into this mess—and if, and how, we can get ourselves out. Yet Tim doesn't speak as an outside critic passing judgment, but as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor.  Tim spent years sifting through the wreckage of American evangelicalism, interviewing pastors, evangelical/political activists, congregants, and scholars. The result is his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, which tells story after illuminating story of major players and institutions within the evangelical movement that have succumbed to political idolatry.  One example is Liberty University, founded in 1971 by Jerry Falwell Sr. Recent headlines have exposed how Senior's now-disgraced son, Jerry Falwell, Jr., made Liberty into a far-right, culture warring, money-making powerhouse. But is this mixing of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man a corruption of Senior's vision—or, is it the culmination of it? And what does it say that everyone—the administration, board, and Liberty supporters—were all fine with it, as long as the money was coming in?  Tim also shares stunning admissions he got during one-on-one interviews with major evangelical/political figures, like Robert Jeffress and Ralph Reed. In private, these men confessed that they know mixing political advocacy with the gospel is misleading and wrong. Yet, as Tim documents, these men keep doing it! Yet Tim also offers stories of hope—like his chapter on Rev. Dr. John Dickson, who teaches at the flagship evangelical school, Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. In it, Tim explains why Dickson has become a missionary to America—and how Christians can lose the culture wars yet live joyfully and winsomely among unbelievers. Tim's book also includes a chapter on exposing abuse and corruption, featuring Rachel Denhollander's work and our work at The Roys Report. On the podcast, we discuss why our reporting is so important and why this chapter is Tim's mother's favorite! This is such an important podcast for Christians wanting to remain true to their calling to worship God first and foremost, rather than succumb to political idolatry.  Guests Tim Alberta Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal and National Review. He is the author of The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism and the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. He lives in southeast Michigan with his wife and three sons. Show Transcript SPEAKERS TIM ALBERTA, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04 How did loving your enemies, a command of Jesus, suddenly become a sign that you're woke? And why is owning the libs now the answer to what would Jesus do? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this podcast is New York Times bestselling author Tim Alberta, whose latest book explores what happened to American evangelicalism. Decades ago, Americans viewed evangelicalism favorably. In 1976, author and historian Gary Wills called evangelicalism, the major religious force in America, both in numbers and an impact. And leading evangelical thinkers claimed that evangelicalism could no longer be regarded as reactionary but was vigorously and sometimes creatively speaking to the needs of the contemporary world. Fast forward to today and evangelicalism has become synonymous with Donald Trump, a thrice married vulgar opportunist who said he doesn't need to repent or ask for forgiveness. A recent poll by Pew Research found that the only religious group that views evangelicals favorably are evangelicals. And as Tim Alberta notes in his book in 1991 90% of Americans identified as Christians, but today, only 63% do. What happened to this once vibrant movement? And can it be saved, or has it passed beyond the point of no return? Un his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory. Tim Alberta does a masterful job of exploring these questions, but he doesn't do it as an outside critic passing judgment. But as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor. I found Tim's book eye opening on many levels, and I'm so excited to share this interview with you. Julie Roys  01:47 But before I do, I want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity, to check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys  02:51 Well, again, joining me is Tim Alberta, a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico. Tim also is the author of The New York Times best seller American Carnage on the Frontlines of the Republican Civil War, and the Rise of President Trump. And his latest book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, explores American evangelicals in an age of extremism. So, Tim, welcome. It is just such a pleasure to be with you again. TIM ALBERTA  03:16 Yes, Julie, it is. It's great to catch up with you and come sort of full circle from where we were a couple of years ago talking about all of this. Julie Roys  03:24 That's right. We spent a couple of well, more than a couple of hours. I think it was supposed to be like maybe an hour and a half, and we got so into our discussion. I think we closed down one coffee shop and went to another. TIM ALBERTA  03:35 We did. I hijacked your whole day. Julie Roys  03:38 Oh, it was fantastic. And so, encouraging to me, but always fun to talk to a fellow journalist with similar convictions. And I was excited about this book when we had our discussion. I'm so honored, I have to say, you know, to get the galley of the book, and I figured because we spent so much time that I'd be in it, but you know, just what you wrote, and the way that you captured some things just so honored to be featured in a chapter with Rachel den Hollander. So, thank you so much for that. I just really appreciate it. TIM ALBERTA  04:07 I should tell you that is my mother's favorite chapter of the book. Oh, for what it's worth, because she's big into strong feminine Christian leadership. And so, she was particularly smitten with you and with Rachel. So, I thought you should know that. Julie Roys  04:21 Oh, wow. Well, I'm honored. I really am. And I should mention that we are offering your book as a premium to anybody who gives $50 or more to The Roys Report in this month. Again, this is just a way that you're able to support the work that we do, but also get this fantastic book. Just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE if you're able to help us out and continue the work that we do, and also get what could be a great Christmas present for somebody or for yourself. So anyway, encourage you to do that. Well, Tim, as I mentioned in the open, you're not writing this book as sort of an outsider critiquing evangelicalism. You grew up evangelical, your dad was an evangelical pastor. And oddly enough, it was at your dad's funeral in 2019, that something sort of awakened you to the severity of what's happening right now within evangelicalism. Tell us a bit about that story. TIM ALBERTA  05:17 Yeah, so my dad, Reverend Richard Alberta, was an amazing, amazing guy. We were very close. And he had a pretty crazy come to Jesus story himself where he was actually kind of a hotshot New York finance guy. And my mom was kind of a hotshot, young journalist with ABC Radio. They lived in New York and my dad, despite having all of this worldly material success, just felt this emptiness. And he was an atheist. He grew up in an unbelieving home. And he, one day stumbled into this church in the Hudson Valley, and heard the gospel and he gave his life to Christ. And it was already a pretty dramatic conversion because he became completely unrecognizable to people around him, including my mom, who was not yet a Christian. Everybody who knew him just thought he was sort of losing it. Suddenly, he's waking up at four in the morning to read his Bible and meditate in prayer for hours. And they're all like, what is this guy doing? And then pretty soon after that, he feels the Lord calling him to ministry. And now they all think he's like certifiable, right? You know, but he follows the Lord's calling. And, you know, he and my mom who became a Christian, they sell all the possessions so he can go to seminary, and they basically they give up this pretty lavish lifestyle they'd had. And for the next like, 20 years, they just work in small churches and live on food stamps and serve the Lord that way. And then when I come along, some years later, we eventually settle in Brighton, which is a suburb of Detroit. And my dad builds this kind of small startup church there into kind of a mega church. And that was my home. It was my community. It was my whole life, really. My mom was on the staff there at the church as well. It was called Cornerstone Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I was raised physically, literally, inside of that church. TIM ALBERTA  07:11 And so, my dad dies a few years back. And when I came back to the church for the funeral, because of the work I've done in politics, and because I had just recently written this book about Trumpism and his takeover of the Republican Party, I was kind of in the crosshairs of right-wing media at that time, because of the book. And so, at the funeral or at the wake during the visitation, I had a bunch of people at the church kind of confronting me and wanting to argue about politics and about Trump and asking me if I was still a Christian and how I could be criticizing him this way. And it was pretty ugly. And as you said, sort of a wakeup call. Julie Roys  07:52 Yeah. And it is something isn't it when you don't support these people that certain evangelicalism believe you have to your, you know, I've got people praying for my salvation, because I've taken on John MacArthur, you know, It's craziness. But there is this tribalism now, within evangelicalism, and it's probably at its very worst when it comes to former President Trump and what he typified. It's interesting to me, you know, as I look at the evangelical movement, you know, I was a card-carrying conservative right? Before Trump came along, and then something really happened. And I feel like I was going back and reading a little bit of Chuck Colson's, Kingdoms in Conflict. Do you remember that book? TIM ALBERTA  08:34 I do. Yeah. Julie Roys  08:35 I mean, he was pretty even handed. I mean, he's very clear in there that being in the kingdom of heaven means it's not about ruling others, it's about being under God's rule. And yet something has tripped, where we're not saying that anymore. We're really become about this whole Dominionism. And he talks about the cultural mandate and things like that, but it's from a very, very different perspective. So here we are dealing with all of this Christian nationalism, and according to your book, a lot of this began, and it's funny because now, Lynchburg Virginia has become synonymous with the Falwell's and with Liberty University. But I've got to say, growing up in the 80s, you know, I knew about the Moral Majority, and some of that, but it just wasn't that big to me. And yet it has grown and grown, and I guess I wasn't even aware of the influence it had. But talk about how a lot of this has its roots really there, in Lynchburg, Virginia, and with what Jerry Falwell Senior. started in, like the late 70s, early 80s. TIM ALBERTA  09:42 Sure, in the context of the American church experience, it is Lynchburg, Virginia. It is the mid-1970s. And it is Jerry Falwell Senior who was a brilliant businessman who, you know, this guy could sell anyone on anything, and he was kind of a master entrepreneur, also a master manipulator. And what Falwell Senior. effectively did, he had already built out Thomas Road Baptist Church into a massive congregation. And then he had tapped into the relatively new medium of television to broadcast his sermons around the country. At one point, he became the single most telecasted program in the entire country. And so, he's reaching millions of people and he's raising a lot of money. This is pretty cutting-edge stuff at the time, but he's building out a mailing list with like more than 10 million names on it, and they are raking in money. So, then he already has his church. But Falwell, Senior is really almost the early archetype of the Christian nationalist. He believes that sort of fighting for God and fighting for America is one in the same and that if America falls, then almost God's kingdom on earth will fall. And so he recognizes that he needs something more than a church; that he needs kind of a cultural stronghold. So, he does two things. First, he takes this little Baptist College Lynchburg Baptist College, and at the time of the bicentennial in 1976, he rebrands it to Liberty University, and he changes the colors from green and gold to red, white, and blue. And basically, they do this whole patriotic rebranding exercise, which is aimed at tapping into not only patriotism in the church, but also tapping into the percolating low simmering at the time, fear in the church and grievance in the church. This sense that, you know, abortion is now legal. Pornography is prevalent, the drug culture is out of control. Prayer is banned in public schools. Secularism is on the march and they're coming for us like they are coming for Christianity in America. And so, Jerry Falwell turns Liberty University into this cause, and then piggybacks onto that with this new organization, The Moral Majority. So suddenly, he's got these three cogs. And he builds out this machine, Falwell Senior does, and it is incredibly effective. They mobilize 10s of millions of voters and sort of bring them under this banner of not just, you know, Christianity, not just following Jesus, but a very particular type of Christianity, a sort of subculture of a subculture. And in many ways, those seeds planted by Falwell 50 years ago, we are harvesting them now. And what we are dealing with, you know, the fracturing of the modern evangelical movement, I think you can trace it directly back to that period. Julie Roys  12:36 It's so interesting, because I think when you talk about Jerry Falwell Senior, and I've talked to a lot of people from Liberty, I've done a lot of reporting about Liberty. And a lot of folks look very wistfully back to the early days, and these are good people, you know, I've talked extensively to them. They're really good people, sincere believers. They look at what's happened to Liberty, and they're like, this isn't Senior. Like Senior loved the Lord and he really was sincere in his walk with the Lord and Junior just was like, we don't know how Junior happened, right? I mean, that's how they often talk about it. I'm going to have you come back to that, because I think what you present is a very, very different picture and honestly, one that I've begun to suspect myself. But let's talk about what happens with you know, Senior dies pretty abruptly right of a heart attack. And then Jerry Falwell, Junior, who is the lawyer, right? He takes over not Jonathan Falwell, who's the pastor, much more of the spiritual leader, but Jerry Falwell, Junior takes over. Very clearly, I'm not a spiritual leader. I mean, he really assued that whole entire title. But when he takes over, despite all the success that his dad had, the school was on the brink of bankruptcy at this point, right? And he kind of turns it around. 13:57 So, Falwell, Junior. is the yes, the UVA trained lawyer, businessman, real estate developer, who is a smart guy. He knows business. And he had really kept the church and organized religion at arm's length. His younger brother Jonathan was the preacher in the family. But Jerry Junior, he'd gone to Liberty for his undergraduate studies. And he says that, you know, he believes in the teachings of Jesus but rejects a lot of the other stuff that comes with it, including Liberty itself. Jerry Junior never wanted to really be a part of Liberty. And suddenly as he's working in the private sector, the school is about to go under. Jerry Senior has really badly mismanaged the finances and he tells his son that basically the school is on the brink of insolvency. And so, Jerry Junior kind of reluctantly comes aboard and he helps to stabilize everything, and he makes a lot of drastic cuts to the different programs and kind of rejiggers the whole balance sheet operation. And he saves Liberty in a lot of ways that, you know, his father gave him credit for that. And it's interesting though, Julie, that when Jerry Falwell senior dies, it's not an accident that Jerry Junior. takes over. That was the plan of succession. It's notable that here is Jerry Falwell senior, who is both businessman and culture warrior, but also a preacher. And he's got these two sons that exemplify one of each, right? He's got the son who's a preacher. And he's got the other son who's the kind of culture warrior businessman. And he appoints the latter to take over Liberty after he's gone. And that in and of itself, I think, speaks volumes. And then more to the point, Jerry Junior, as you said, he comes in and he tells anybody who will listen, look, I'm not a religious leader, I'm not here charged with the spiritual well-being of this school. I'm here to turn us into a powerhouse, I'm here to turn us into a highly profitable, highly influential organization that can sort of, you know, push back against the forces of secularism in the left in this country. But he doesn't, to his credit, I suppose. Falwell Junior, he doesn't pretend that he's something that he's not. And the irony of it all, Julie is that everybody was fine with it. They were fine with it. Right? They were, as you know, when the money was coming in, and the buildings were going up at a rapid clip, and the endowment was bulging, everybody was fine with it. Because he's Jerry Senior's namesake, and he's a Falwell, and the school is doing great. Clearly God is blessing this project. So, what's not to like? Julie Roys  16:47 Well, and you say everyone was fine with it. And it's true on a public face, everyone was fine with it. I will say I started hearing from a lot of people who weren't fine with it from I mean, obviously the Jane DOE's and now we know about who were victims of sexual assault, and their cases got just horribly mismanaged. In fact, not even reported. And you know, now we have the Department of Education looking into how badly Liberty bungled these cases and violated Title Nine mandates, and they could face like a 30 some million dollar fine, which could be one of the largest ever. So, this was percolating under the surface, but nobody knew about it at the time. And I also talked to a lot of professors who were like, the way this place is being run is abysmal. There's nothing Christian about it. The way the administration handles things, there's nothing Christian about it. And we know too, from some of the people you interviewed, it was less like a religious institution and more like a mafia like a mob boss. Like Jerry turned into I think Jerry is very, he's very likable when you meet him. I mean, obviously very socially gifted, even though he's an introvert. He seems like this kind of your good old boy that, you know, everybody likes. But he began to become very controlling, and lock that place down where Jerry ruled with really an iron fist. And by the time some of the stuff started coming out about him, that place I mean, am I right, that it was a lot less like a Christian institution a lot more like the organized crime syndicate? TIM ALBERTA  18:24 Yeah, well, and listen like this is so Julie. It's funny, because obviously, you and I are in the same line of work. We're coming at this from pretty similar worldviews, and we're having similar conversations, with some of the same people. And you're exactly right when they're using the term family business. You know, Liberty is a family business. They're not just talking about like the Falwell family. There's, you know, the implication there is like very clearly that there is almost a mafioso-esque quality to, you don't cross the Falwell's, the power is concentrated in a few hands here. If you get a seat at the table, you are just lucky to be there and you nod and you know, at one point, I think I make sort of an offhand smart aleck comparison to like the North Korean military where, you know, you stand and salute the dear leader and don't dare step out of line. And of course, that's tragic on a number of levels, one of them being that Liberty has been filled over the years with really good and godly students and good and godly professors who are there for the right reasons. Some of these professors who started to really see the rot from the inside., they chose to stick around because on the one hand, they could see the success around them. The kind of observable material success that you know that the campus is absolutely stunning. Maybe God is doing something really marvelous here and I just have to kind of see my way through this part of it. But I also think that there's a level of devotion, and a feeling for some of these people that they wanted to help right the ship, that they wanted to be a part of the solution. And obviously, those are some of the characters I talk to in the book who now have finally gotten to a breaking point where they say, you know what? I just can't do it anymore. And not only can I not do it anymore, but the world needs to know, the whistle needs to be blown here that like this is not okay. Julie Roys  20:21 What does it say about evangelicalism, Tim, that when the money was coming in, and the money still is coming in, that everybody was okay with how godless this place was? And anybody that was in administration knew and saw it. The Board, who it's astounding to me that when Jerry Falwell Junior, got embroiled in this big sex scandal, and he gets fired, that Jerry Prevo takes over. And we think that that is a change of the guard. This was the man who was the chairman of the board the whole time that Jerry was doing all of this stuff. It's shocking to me, but yet I see it so much in so many different Christian organizations. And so, what is it about us that we're okay with these things, with really what is just absolute rampant hypocrisy? TIM ALBERTA  21:15 I'm afraid that in many ways, we're actually worse than some of those secular institutions. Because of this idea of the prosperity gospel, it's almost become like this proper noun. And so, people feel like well, those are those people are crazy. I'm not one of them, I'm not a part of that, right? But the idea inherent to the prosperity gospel, right is that, well, if you give to the Lord, and if you serve the Lord, if you follow the Lord, then you will be blessed. But that is so conveniently and so easily reverse engineered by a lot of Christians, either at a conscious or at a subconscious level, where when you see any sort of material success around you, you then say, well, clearly, I'm blessed. Clearly, the Lord is blessing this project. And that creates a kind of a permission structure, I think, for a lot of us to then turn a blind eye to things that are very obviously wrong, or kind of downplay things that you otherwise would never downplay. And whether that's an individual church congregation, whether that's a big college campus, whether it's the President of the United States, this can manifest in a lot of different ways. It's so much based on that kind of material thinking that I think we are particularly vulnerable, particularly susceptible to it here in the American church. I think the saddest part about it is that many of us just don't see it, or maybe don't want to see it. I don't know. Julie Roys  22:44 Your book has a stunning quote, stunning quote by a former professor, Dr. Aaron Warner. And he says, and I quote, Jerry, Senior, was always a bit of a scoundrel, and Jerry Junior, perfected the art of using fear and hatred as a growth strategy. Christianity happens to be the thing that they used to build a multibillion-dollar institution. It could have been anything else. It could have been moonshine, but they chose Christianity. And it's gained them a lot of power and a lot of money; the two things these people truly worship. You talked to a lot of people, interviewed a lot of people at Liberty. Is that characterization fair? Or do you think it's a little too harsh? TIM ALBERTA  23:23 It's harsh, that's for sure. It might contain some traces of hyperbole. But I will say this, Aaron Werner is another guy who knows that institution very well. Went there as an undergraduate, has deep longstanding ties to Liberty And the stories he tells from the inside are stunning. One of the other quotes, actually, I thought it might be the one that you're going to read because it kind of runs right along in parallel to that one is from a current professor. Now, at the time of this recording, he's a current professor. My sense is that when the book releases and when this gets back to the administration that he could be dismissed and he's expecting that that will happen. But his name is Nick Olsen, and he's an English professor, very popular English professor there. Brilliant, godly young guy. And he's a legacy at Liberty. His dad was one of the first students at Liberty and a contemporary of Falwell Senior. And Nick has sort of agonized in recent years with this inheritance at Liberty and everything that he's seen and struggled with there. And he says to me, this is not quite verbatim, but he says this to me in the final chapter of the book, he says, Jerry Junior, thought that he was fulfilling his father's vision by assuing spiritual stuff and by building out this massive multibillion dollar like culture warring Republican institution. And he says, and it is heartbreaking, because that's exactly what he's done, and he did fulfill Jerry Senior's vision. And I think that piece of it, Julie is not hyperbole. I think that when you spend enough time digging through the archives and talking to people who were there in the room where it happened, so to speak, it becomes pretty self-evident. And by the way, you know, you mentioned earlier that there are people who will say, Yeah, but you know, Jerry Senior, he really loved the Lord. Yeah, well, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I mean, I'm not suggesting that he didn't love the Lord. But I'm suggesting that like many people who love the Lord, he got his priorities out of whack. And by the way, we are all susceptible to this. But it's very hard to evaluate the history of Liberty University, the decisions made there, the structure of the place and the personnel and how they've treated people and what the benchmarks have been. It's very hard to assess all of that and reach any other conclusion than the one that Nick Olsen reaches at the end of the book. Julie Roys  25:41 And yet Liberty continues to be the largest Christian university in the country. It still has this dominance, there's still a lot of people that I know sending their kids there. And it's heartbreaking to me. I mean, I just wonder at what point do we say enough, and we stand up to this? And I'm glad that people are starting to speak out. But sometimes I wonder if it's too little too late, when we have just these juggernaut organizations and it really has been a marrying of two kingdoms that should be in conflict, and we're trying to say that they can be married together the kingdom of this world, the kingdom, the political realm, and the kingdom of Christ. And Jesus never became a political leader. It's stunning to me some of these quotes that are in your book, that are just like you expect a lightning to fall out of the sky, the way that scripture and Jesus are being misrepresented. It's just so awful. Julie Roys  26:37 In your first section, though, I have to say there's always some redeeming thing in each section, which I'm like, Thank You, Lord. It's like a palate cleanser in a lot of just awful stuff. But you have this beautiful chapter. And it's on a guy, John Dixon, who I actually got to know in my reporting on Ravi Zacharias, because John used to be a speaker for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. And he was one of those who, you know, pretty early in the game as things were starting to come out, recognized that there were some lies being told by the institution he had been a part of, and he quickly made a break, and he boldly took a stand. I mean, I really respected him for that, that he didn't seem to have this Oh, fear of, if I say something, what's going to happen to me? I mean, he just said what was right, and what was what was true. And now he's at Wheaton College, which is right in my backyard. And what I love is that he's so joyfully on the losing team. You know, we've got all of these people, all these Christians out there telling us we have to be on the winning team, we got to take America back. And here's John Dixon saying, No, we're on the losing team right now. I mean, eventually, when Christ comes back, we'll be you know, he will set things right, and we'll be on the winning team. But for now, we're kind of on the losing team. And it's okay, people. So, talk about John and what we can learn from him and his example, because again, he's from Australia, which is probably about 10 or 15 years ahead of us in sort of this post Christian era that, you know, is beginning to happen here as well. Julie Roys  28:16 And that is so tough for us. I mean, it's not tough for Chinese Christians to get this, right? I mean they get it right away. Because to be a believer means you have to get rid of everything, you can't hold on to anything, you're gonna lose all your power, all your position. But I think we've been, actually it's the curse of being prosperous. And being in a country where Christians have had the majority and where it actually was a plus, probably for my parents to be believers. I think it won't be for my children. But maybe that'll be a good thing. And maybe that's precisely what the church needs. We already think we're being persecuted, which is funny. We really aren't. But we may see it. And right now, I think most of the persecution we're getting is because of what you said that we're not because we're so holy, but because we're actually worse than the world in so many different ways. And we deserve it. TIM ALBERTA  28:16 John is really one of my favorite people I've met in all of the journeys that I was on, and one of my favorite characters in the book for exactly the reasons that you mentioned there. And the fact that he is not an American is, I think, a big part of his perspective, right? But I think also, there's something deeper embedded in the American psyche, about winning, about the need to dominate. I have a funny quote somewhere else in the book from somebody who had spent years living and studying and teaching in Canada, who talks about how Canadians just want fourth place, and then when they get the bronze, they're thrilled. And in America, if you don't get the gold, you're a total loser, right? And so, there's something, you know, about the American Christian experience that's so different. And so, John, one of my favorite scenes in all of this reporting that I did was, we're sitting in the cafeteria there at Wheaton College, surrounded by the flags of the world all around us in the cafeteria. And I say, Why did you come here? Like, really? Why did you come here? And he says, like, this is my mission field now, like the US is my mission field because of this, this stuff. Everything you and I are discussing right now. He said this stuff is like so toxic and so unhealthy. And the church is caught in this terrible pattern. That, by the way, is not new. Right? You go back to Constantine, there has been this obsession with worldly power this inclination to merge two kingdoms into one. So, what we're living through here is not new, in a lot of ways. And I think John is so brilliant in kind of illuminating the appropriate Christian perspective here, which is to say that if you care so much about winning and losing, then the good news is you've already won, right? The tomb is empty, Jesus conquered death, and you believe in him. So therefore, you're already a part of the kingdom. But this place, which is meant to be ephemeral, and unimportant ultimately, and just, you know, a step among the stairs, that if your identity here is wrapped up in winning and losing, then you can't really have your identity there. And he says, ultimately, you know, we're the death and resurrection people. Like losing, and losing well, is a part of the Christian experience. TIM ALBERTA  31:24 John Dixon talks about how there's sort of this inverse relationship historically, between the amount of cultural and social and political power held by Christians in a society and the health of Christianity in that society, right? In other words, when you hold the commanding heights, the Christian influence it actually tends to be pretty weak and pretty corrupted and pretty compromised. When you are at the margins and when you are truly countercultural, the witness thrives. And we've seen that throughout history. Another favorite character of mine in the book, Brian Zahnd, who's the pastor of a church out in Missouri, he talks about how difficult it is for American Christians to really appreciate how the Bible is written from the perspective of the underdog, right? The Hebrew slaves fleeing Egypt, and the first century Christians living under a brutal Roman occupation. Like they had no power, they had no influence. And yet they were so joyful, and they were so content because they had their kingdom, right? And it does give me unease even in my own personal life, just the things I enjoy the materials, the prosperity, the comforts; can I fully appreciate the baby born in a manger? can I fully identify with the vagrant preacher from the ghettos of Nazareth? You know, it's a hard thing. Julie Roys  32:42 And here's the reality; that message, which is Christ's message really doesn't sell well in America. Having your best life now sells in America. And what we're seeing right now, and this, you know, brings me to the second section in your book dealing with power, which again, we've got to take back, America, has become sort of the mantra that we're hearing from so many of these, you know, political rights. And it has just morphed into something where, and again, I said at the outset, I used to be very much politically engaged with the conservative movement. I am not anymore because I can't stomach it and what it's become. I felt like we were being salt. But now it's about dominating and doing it by any means possible, where we just get rid of our morality. And I was always brought up to believe and I think this is what Scripture teaches, that the means is as important as the end. And so, if we achieve a righteous end through an unrighteous means, then we've lost. We've completely lost because we have given up what makes us unique, and what makes us God honoring for something that we're saying is a God honoring, you know end. But again, this is what has happened in our country. And, and what's interesting in this section that just captured my imagination. I mean, I've wondered this, like, you take a Robert Jeffress, right? This guy's not dumb. He's a smart Southern Baptist preacher, clearly a savvy guy. He has built this mega church, but the things that came out of his mouth, especially when Trump was in power, but it's still there. The things that come out of his mouth, and I think, he's got to know that this is not in line with the Gospels. He's got to see this. And yet, publicly, you wouldn't hear that. But when you met with him privately, you began to hear some doubt in there and allowing you to see a little bit of vulnerability, although it didn't seem to last all that long. But talk about that, because I'm not sensing much doubt in the masses that follow these men. But when you get them one on one, tell me what you see. TIM ALBERTA  34:50 And it's not just Robert Jeffress, Greg Locke, Greg Locke, Ralph Reed. Yeah, yeah, a lot of these guys. It's the pastor who in my hometown, grew his church tenfold by basically turning Sunday morning worship services into Fox news segments. And giving a Nazi salute to Gretchen Whitmer from his pulpit. I mean, but then you get them one on one. And you press them a little bit. I mean, you know, politely, respectfully, but you press them. Suddenly, they not only back off a little bit, but they do a little bit of like winking and nodding at you to basically say, like, you're right, I'm definitely putting on a bit of a song and dance here for the masses. But I think that they will ultimately justify it by saying, Well, yeah, but look at all these people who are coming in and look at the opportunity, we have to reach them now with the gospel? So, you know, those ends really do justify the means. I think the problem with that, as you hinted it, is but look, I mean, there's a lot of problems with it. You know, Mark 8:36 is not a rhetorical question, right? Like, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul? But I think for some of these people, some of these leaders, the thing that really grates at me and I know it grates at you, Julie, is like, they're the shepherds, they're the ones who are supposed to know better, because a lot of their flock, you know, and I'm not being condescending or patronizing when I say this, they don't necessarily know better, they are the sheep, right? They need to be shepherded. And instead of shepherding, a lot of these people have just themselves become wolves. And they become wolves for what? So that you can have a seat at the table? So that you can get on Fox News? So that you can raise some money? So that for what ultimately? You're so right, when you press them on it almost to a person, they will acknowledge at some level that what they're doing is kind of gross, and kind of anti-biblical, and then they just keep on doing it. Julie Roys  36:46 So, speak to the person who is listening. And we probably don't have a ton of these. But there may be some who are listening, who have bought this hook, line, and sinker that we do need to take America back. And Franklin Graham told us it's all for the Supreme Court justices, and we got the Supreme Court justices and Roe v. Wade was just overturned and, you know, look at what was accomplished. So, you know, politics is a dirty business, Tim. I mean, come on, if we're gonna win in politics, which, you know, we're talking about babies here, babies are being slaughtered left and right. And then, you know, some of these people would allow a baby to be born alive and kill it. You know, that's who these people are. So, I mean, come on. This is the world we live in, and we've got to fight the way that the world fights. What do you say? TIM ALBERTA  37:35 I'd say a couple of things. I think you can go round and round about Roe v. Wade, and about Trump and about Supreme Court justices. But be careful what you wish for in this space. Because the fact of the matter is that Roe v Wade fell, and the total number of abortions in this country went up. I live in Michigan, where prior to Roe v Wade falling, there were pretty tight abortion restrictions in Michigan. Now, it is the wild west. It is some of the most liberalized abortion laws in the country. And that is true in seven or eight other states that have had ballot initiatives passed since Roe v. Wade, dramatically liberalizing abortion laws, and it's going to happen in a number of other states next year. So, let's be really clear eyed and fact based when we talk about what our political involvement does and what it doesn't do. At the end of the day, if you want to win hearts and minds to stop the scourge of abortion, if you are a Christian, and you view this as your great crusade, then is voting for a candidate or putting a bumper sticker on your car, is that the way to win those hearts and minds? Because the fact is, if American evangelicals had put a fraction of the energy into the social side of abortion, of doing the hard work in the clinics, and helping the single mothers and doing the foster care that is needed to address this at its root, if they had been willing to do that over the last 50 years, my guess is that public opinion would be dramatically different as it pertains to abortion. And we wouldn't even be talking about Roe v. Wade, because the number of abortions would be so low in this country that it wouldn't even register. But we've sort of self-selected into this alternate universe where politicians are our savior, and that politics is the mechanism by which we right the wrongs in this country. And I'm sorry, but if you are citizens of another kingdom?, then you can't possibly believe that. You can't possibly believe that Donald Trump or that any other politician is the person who's going to ultimately right these great moral wrongs. But unfortunately, I think that's the trap we've fallen into. Julie Roys  39:51 You know, I used to be very involved in the prolife movement. I will say, almost all of the people that I knew when I was involved in the pro-life movement, were actually involved in reaching out to single moms and caring for them and caring for their unborn children. But I think what we've forgotten so much is that politics is downstream of culture. So, if you're losing the culture, which we clearly are to change the politics, if you've got a kid that's rebellious, a teenager who's rebellious in your home, locking down all the windows and the doors in your house, that's not going to keep your kid from sinning. What's going to keep your kid from sinning, is if you can winsomely love your child into relationship with Jesus Christ and to want to be like you and to want to adopt your values. But we've forgotten about that, we've become this, you know, Midas right. And I remember in 2016, writing a commentary, The Rise of Trump, The Fall of Evangelicalism, and I said, we may win this one, but we will lose in the long run, if we throw our convictions out the window, and we alienate everyone around us, by our you know, the way that we talk and the way that we relate to people. This is not how you win people to the Lord. That fell on, you know, really deaf ears. It actually lost me some key supporters too. But I just was stunned because I did not know who these people were that I thought believed the same way that I did and had the same values. And then I went, Wow, we are just on different planets, we really don't have that. Julie Roys  41:29 I want to look at one person, again, you have these palate cleansers within all of these sections. And one of them to me is Cal Thomas, who was very much a part of the right and so I can relate to that, because that was I mean, I used to be emceeing the banquet to raise money for you know, the political cause, or whatever it was. I don't do that anymore. Cal Thomas doesn't do that anymore. What changed Cal? TIM ALBERTA  41:58 It's so funny, Julie, because just a minute ago, when you were talking about what are the weapons of our warfare? I was thinking about Cal., because Cal for those who don't know his story, you know, he was Jerry Falwell Senior's lieutenant in the Moral Majority. And he was their spokesman for the Moral Majority. And the vice president of that organization, and, you know, was really heavily involved in the kind of crusading era of the Religious Right, he was a central figure. And then Cal really started to feel uneasy with what he was seeing around him. And he doesn't even sugarcoat it. We have this very raw conversation in the book where he talks about, you know, the corruption and the greed and the grift. And how he just couldn't justify it. He justified it for a while by saying, Well, look how many people we're reaching, and look at all this money coming in. So clearly, you know, God must be doing something here. And then he eventually just gets to a point where he says, No, this is a scam. It's just immoral. And he finally walks away. And then years later, he writes this book called Blinded by Might, where he kind of tries to atone. And he just says, Listen, I was a total believer in winning the culture war to protect Christian America, as you know, part of our duty, you know, to God's kingdom. And in fact, not only has it failed, but it has backfired spectacularly, that we have driven away so many people who need Jesus, but who won't have anything to do with us anymore, They won't even let us in the door to have a conversation because of the way we've treated them because of the way we've treated the culture. So, to your point about locking down the teenager in the house, right? Cal really eloquently and powerfully was giving voice to this when he wrote that book. And then, you know, in our interviews for this book, he's an older guy now he's 80. And he's looking back with such regret on those years and thinking about how did he in some way contribute to laying the groundwork for Trump ism as this kind of sub cult in the evangelical world. And what's most interesting to me from that whole conversation, and I said this to him, is that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the exact same. I mean, this break that he's describing in the 1980s. And this kind of crisis of conscience that he's feeling is exactly what we're trying to address today. What I'm trying to address in the book now, which is that, listen, it doesn't have to be this way. You have a choice, right? We all have a choice. It was so incredibly unpleasant for me to write this book in a lot of ways, Julie. If I'm being totally honest, I probably couldn't have written it while my dad was still alive. It would have been too hard. Like I've had some people writing me emails this past week saying, oh, like thank you for your courage. Thank you for your brave, I don't feel courageous. I don't feel brave. I feel like a coward in a lot of ways that it took me so long and that a lot of ways took my dad dying and having those experiences at his funeral to finally be willing to acknowledge and use my platform, my relatively high profile journalistically speaking to address this thing that has been so clearly wrong for such a long time. And so, for anybody listening, whether it's in your individual congregation, your faith community, your family, whatever it is like, it doesn't have to be this way. And it takes people like Cal Thomas, kind of blowing up his own life, blowing up his tribal affiliations and walking away. It takes Pastor Brian Zahnd, who I write about in Chapter 15, who had a mega church of 5000 people, and they were making money hand over fist. And then he just woke up one day and had this like epiphany from the Lord that it was all wrong, and that it was so shallow, and it was doing such a disservice to the Gospel. And he blew up his mega church. He's got like 150 people who come every Sunday now and the sanctuary seats like 2000. And he made a choice, right? Cal Thomas made a choice. You've made a choice, Julie. And I just think like, at the end of the day, the people who make that choice and who decide to reckon with what this has become? I don't think they're going to regret it. I really don't. Julie Roys  46:05 I have not regretted it once being free of the whole evangelical industrial complex as it's called, and just being free to follow your conscience without thinking, what are the consequences if I speak the truth publicly? Like what's going to happen to me? Like I see so many Christians just living in fear that if they speak out, or they tell the truth that they know that something, you know, there will be bad consequences for me, and it just makes me wonder, do we believe the gospel, like do we believe the gospel? What gospel are we living on day-to-day basis? And I love Pastor Zahnd's story that was like one of my favorite stories. And it reminded me of the book because I just interviewed Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer and their book pivot, which talks about similar things, other churches that realized church is toxic. It's huge, it's successful, but I feel empty inside, you know, and I feel thin, and they made that pivot. And it may be to smaller church, it may be and it's interesting, though, you were saying how Zahnd's church is now starting to maybe even start to grow and become a little bit healthier. And so, when I hear that I say, it's going to take a while. But in this, you know, these ashes, do you see something growing that's beautiful there that can replace this ugliness that quite frankly, I think I just think it's doomed. I think it's coming down. I don't know that it will come down quickly. This complex that we've built, but I think it will come down eventually. It may take decades. But I think there will be a Christianity I hope this was my prayer that replaces it. And it's more organic and more Grassroots less big leadership and more the Body of Christ. TIM ALBERTA  47:48 Yes,  I do see something rising from the ashes. I can sense it, particularly among the younger generation. One of the things that consistently surprised me in all of my reporting, and it was a pleasant surprise, to be clear, was spending time with younger believers. They ideologically, culturally, politically, like they're really no different from their parents, like they check those boxes on paper. But then you kind of get into some of this with them. And they want nothing to do with Trumpism. They want nothing to do with Charlie Kirk, and I'm talking about like the serious believers. I'm not talking about like the very casual kids who identify as Christian, but then go to a Turning Point USA event. I mean, like, you spend time around Liberty, and like, yes, there are some MAGA kids at Liberty. But most of the kids you spend time with  at Liberty, including those who would self-identify as like, sure I guess on paper, I would be a Republican, because of abortion because of other issues, they will really eloquently and gracefully speak to these schisms. And they're so perceptive. I think that's the big thing, Julie, is that they can see it. Right? My generation, I kind of think of us as like the children of the Moral Majority. And we can now very clearly diagnose this in a way that my dad's generation probably couldn't, they were too close to it. They were too wrapped up in it. And I think, you know, in some ways, they almost I kind of tend to maybe just give them a little bit of a pass for that because they didn't have the appropriate distance to really assess it and analyze it in the way that I think I'm able to, and certainly in the way that the generations behind me are able to. They see what this is doing to the church, and they are saying no, thank you. Even at my home church, the guy who took over for my dad, almost run out of the place. He came very close to just quitting because it got so bad for him because he hears this young guy taking over this, this mega church congregation in a very conservative Republican community. And he's not particularly a conservative Republican. He's not like some big Democrat either. He's just a guy who like loves Jesus and who processes news events through the eyes of like the gospel, right? What's so interesting is that he lost a ton of his congregation. And then this past summer, I went back for the first time since my dad's funeral, and the place was packed, and I didn't recognize anybody there. And he comes out and gives this sort of fire and brimstone sermon, challenging them on the culture wars, challenging them on like, where are your priorities, really? What kingdom do you really belong to? And so that actually, I didn't aim to end the book on that optimistic note, but I was so encouraged by it, because it makes me think that in this market of supply and demand that you and I have talked about, and mostly we focused on the perverted nature of the supply and demand, that there is also maybe more demand out there than we realize for that true, pure form of the gospel. And so that is my hope, moving forward, and particularly with these younger Christians, who will demand something better than what we've seen so far. Julie Roys  50:53 I loved that I don't often read the epilogue, but in your book I did. And that was beautiful to read about Pastor Winans and the way that, you know, you kind of left them in the early chapters really disillusioned and discouraged. And then he comes back invigorated for the gospel, and preaching it so boldly and that really, pastors like that give me hope. And I know that there's probably a lot more of them than I encounter in you know, the line of work that I do, which usually means I hear about the worst of the worst all the time. Julie Roys  51:28 Let me just ask you about this most of your chapters are about political power and about the way that these kingdoms  and the power has sort of become an idolatrous thing. And then you turn your eye to corruption going on in the church and the abuse, the abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, how that's been addressed recently, how Rachel den Hollander stood up to it and she went, you know, most people I'm sure listening know Rachel's story. But you know, one of the first gymnasts who came forward and told her story about Larry Nasser, and how he had abused so much of the, you know, US Olympic gymnasts team. And she went from being just Joan of Arc, I think you call it to being Jezebel, right? Or from Esther to Jezebel, because she spoke out about the evil in the church. And that's what I found. When I was at Moody Radio I was allowed to speak about Joel Osteen, right? Or I was allowed to speak about the liberals in politics. But when I turned my critique on our own tribe, man, I would get shut down, you know. That's one of the reasons I left Moody besides the others that I talked about. I couldn't speak out about the evil in our own house. And I feel that at this point, we have no moral platform as Christians to be speaking about the evil out in the world anymore, until we deal with the evil in our own house and the way that it's crept in. You know, judgment begins with the house of God. He doesn't expect, you know, the people who don't know him, to act any differently than they're acting, but He expects us to, and we're not. So, I appreciated that you put this chapter in the book, dealing with some of the abuse and the corruption within the church. But you could have easily left it out and just talked about the way that politics has, you know, really usurped the gospel. Why did you put this chapter in? TIM ALBERTA  53:28 One of the things that really bugs me, is how the New Testament model here and you were just alluding to this a moment ago. The New Testament model is not ambiguous. We are to treat outsiders with unlimited grace and kindness and compassion and forgiveness, because they don't know God, and they don't know any better. That is clear. And what is also clear is that we are to treat the insiders with the utmost accountability, and they are to be held to the highest standard because they do know God, and they do know better. That is the New Testament model. And we in the American church have completely flipped it. We have nothing but hostility, and animus and enmity towards the outside world. And we practice nothing but grace and forgiveness and cheap grace and cheap forgiveness inside the church. Right? And it drives me a little bit nuts. Because if you are the person out there in the world, who is sort of curious about Jesus, and you feel something missing in your life, what are the odds today that you're going to go to a local church and try to learn a little bit more? I mean, you know, you might say, Well, some people will, some people do Sure. But the statistics here don't lie, Julie. Like when you look back 30 or 40 years, the perception of the church among unbelievers in this country was incredibly positive. People who did not know Jesus looked at the church as a beacon of moral rectitude, of compassion, of social good. Even if they were never going to sit in the pews with us, even if they didn't believe any of the doctrine, they respected the church and they admire the church. And that has completely changed. It's just completely fallen apart. There are some people who will tell you like Robert Jeffers and I go back and forth on this in the book, he said, Well, that it doesn't matter, right? Those people aren't looking for the Lord. I completely disagree. I think the credibility of the church matters enormously. TIM ALBERTA  55:37 To your question of why did I feel compelled to include that chapter? Well, who's going to hold the church accountable? Is the church going to hold itself accountable? No, I mean, typically, institutions are not very good at self-policing. We know that from working in journalism, right? By the way, the media is not very good at self-policing. Actually, I could argue the media is terrible at self-policing. I mean, any big institution, it can't be expected to hold itself accountable. Okay, so what are the mechanisms for accountability here? If we care about the Bride of Christ, if we care about the credibility of the church, if we care about how the outside world perceives the church, which I think matters enormously, then what do we do to ensure that the church is on the up and up and is doing its duty before God and it's carrying out its purpose and its mission? You know, journalism has to play a role in that. I think, you know, the law has to play a role in that. I think that there are external forces, even, you know, gasp secular forces that have to play a role in that, because otherwise, we just leave these churches, these pastors to their own devices. And I'm sorry, but you don't need to read any other source then the Bible itself. You pick up the Bible itself, read from Old Testament to new and see how well that works out. We see it time and again. I there are not accountability structures in place, then things go very badly, very quickly. And so that's a long answer to your question. Julie Roys  57:06 Hmm. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your book. And I know you're getting interviews all over the country. I saw you on CBS, Good Morning America; that was so exciting to see but really wonderful that you've gotten this platform to winsomely speak to the rest of society who I remember a couple of times, I got to be on NPR. They would ask me about evangelicalism, and they are always amazed, I think that I could even string two sentences together. And I was actually an evangelical right? But I am so thrilled that you are representing evangelicals because you're a face that and I don't know, do you still identify as Evangelical? TIM ALBERTA  57:49 not really, I don't fight the label, but I would not volunteer it for myself just because of exactly what we just described, you know. Somebody outside the church hears it, and they quickly shut down the conversation, because they don't really want anything to do with you. Julie Roys  58:01 I don't know if I would take that term, either. I'm kind of where you are, as well. But you're a Christian, and you love Jesus. And even when I heard you in that one interview recently said, How's your faith? and you're like, it's as strong as it's ever been. I thank you for that and for your witness, and for this book, and for giving me so much of your time. I really appreciate it. So, thank you, TIM ALBERTA  58:21 Thank you for all that you're doing. And thank you for saying that. It's very kind of you. We're ultimately playing some small part here in trying to get this thing back on track and doing it as humbly as possible. I hope that we can make a difference. Thank you for having me on. And I know that we'll continue to talk. Julie Roys  58:39 Absolutely. And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And just a quick reminder, if you'd like a copy of Tim Alberta's book, The Kingdome, The Power, and The Glory, we'd be happy to send you one for a gift of $50 or more to The Roys Report this month. Again, we don't have any large donors or advertising, we simply have you, the people who care about exposing evil and restoring the church. So, if you'd like to support our work and get Tim's book, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, I want to let you know that next week, I'll be releasing another talk from the RESTORE conference. This one is by veteran church planter Lance Ford, who gave an amazing talk on the Christian addiction to leadership and why it's so toxic. I love this talk and I think you will too. So be watching for that. We'll release the talk as both an audio podcast and as a video at my YouTube channel. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media. So, more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

We're joined by Tim Alberta upon the publication of his new book, The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. After starting out with some fun banter about Tim's beloved Detroit Lions and veering off into kids' names, we delve into weighty topics such as whether Tim still considers himself an #evangelical - more specifically, if there are aspects of his faith he's begun to question. Much of this conversation is about the new book: "The main thing is no longer the main thing" for so many megachurch pastors; Donald Trump is "a creation of the culture gone crazy" (especially in the American Evangelical church); whether hucksters like Trump and Paula White, when they're behind closed doors, laugh at all their "suckers" that buy into their various schemes; who Tim thinks is the audience for THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY - and who he hopes the audience is; and we get to hear some input from Charles Mingus the 3rd!   Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico, and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump and the newly released The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. He co-moderated the final Democratic presidential debate of 2019 and frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. And as listeners will quickly learn, Tim is a big time Detroit Lions fan.   Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.   Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/   We're also pleased to give a shoutout to our friends at a great new podcast: https://leftylooseyrightytighty.podbean.com   And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.   www.bytimalberta.com/   www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X   www.theatlantic.com/author/tim-alberta/

Dive into an enlightening conversation with Tim Alberta, renowned journalist and author of "The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism," on this week's Faithful Politics Podcast. Hosts Will Wright and Pastor Josh Bertram engage with Alberta in a thought-provoking discussion about the intersection of faith, politics, and evangelicalism in contemporary America.In this episode, Alberta shares his personal journey, shedding light on the complexities and challenges within the American evangelical community. From the impact of political figures like Donald Trump to the role of the church during COVID-19, Alberta offers a nuanced perspective on how politics and faith intertwine and sometimes clash in today's society.Discover insights into:The evolution of evangelical Christians' pursuit of power in American politics.The internal struggles and external perceptions of the evangelical church.Alberta's experiences and interviews that shaped his views and his book.Tune in for an episode that's not just informative but also a mirror to the current state of American evangelicalism. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the podcast, this episode with Tim Alberta promises to be a compelling addition to your podcast library.Buy the book: https://a.co/d/bNPR3iZGuest Bio:Tim Alberta is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. He formerly served as chief political correspondent for POLITICO. In 2019, he published the critically acclaimed book, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump" and co-moderated the year's final Democratic presidential debate aired by PBS Newshour.Hailing from Brighton, Michigan, Tim attended Schoolcraft College and later Michigan State University, where his plans to become a baseball writer were changed by a stint covering the legislature in Lansing. He went on to spend more than a decade in Washington, reporting for publications including the Wall Street Journal, The Hotline, National Journal and National Review. Having covered the biggest stories in national politics—the battles over health care and immigration on Capitol Hill; the election and presidency of Donald Trump; the ideological warfare between and within the two parties—Tim was eager for a new challenge.Keywords: Tim Alberta, American Evangelicals, Faith and Politics, Donald Trump, COVID-19 Church Response, Evangelicalism in America, Political Podcast, Faithful Politics Podcast.Support the showTo learn more about the show, contact our hosts, or recommend future guests, click on the links below: Website: https://www.faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/ Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Political Host: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Twitter: @FaithfulPolitik Instagram: faithful_politics Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast LinkedIn: faithfulpolitics

We're joined by Tim Alberta upon the publication of his new book, The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. After starting out with some fun banter about Tim's beloved Detroit Lions and veering off into kids' names, we delve into weighty topics such as whether Tim still considers himself an #evangelical - more specifically, if there are aspects of his faith he's begun to question. Much of this conversation is about the new book: "The main thing is no longer the main thing" for so many megachurch pastors; Donald Trump is "a creation of the culture gone crazy" (especially in the American Evangelical church); whether hucksters like Trump and Paula White, when they're behind closed doors, laugh at all their "suckers" that buy into their various schemes; who Tim thinks is the audience for THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY - and who he hopes the audience is; and we get to hear some input from Charles Mingus the 3rd!   Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico, and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump and the newly released The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. He co-moderated the final Democratic presidential debate of 2019 and frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. And as listeners will quickly learn, Tim is a big time Detroit Lions fan.   Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.   Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/   We're also pleased to give a shoutout to our friends at a great new podcast: https://leftylooseyrightytighty.podbean.com   And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.   www.bytimalberta.com/   www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X   www.theatlantic.com/author/tim-alberta/

A weekly podcast exploring stories at the intersection of faith and culture through an inclusive Christian lens. This week Mitch and Autumn discuss the gun epidemic in the US.Later, Tim Alberta joins the show to discuss his article for The Atlantic, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump." Tim is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. You can read the full article here.

A weekly podcast exploring stories at the intersection of faith and culture through an inclusive Christian lens. This week Mitch and Autumn discuss the gun epidemic in the US. Later, Tim Alberta joins the show to discuss his article for The Atlantic, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump." Tim is an award-winning journalist, best-selling author, and staff writer for The Atlantic magazine. You can read the full article here.

Journalist Tim Alberta got his first taste of Washington, DC straight out of undergrad as an intern for The Wall Street Journal. Since then, he has become a plugged-in political reporter, with a particular focus on the Republican Party. He has watched and reported as American politics and priorities shifted—something he said most of the country has yet to fully grapple with. He joined David to discuss growing up the son of an evangelical pastor, covering the 2020 election from his home state of Michigan, what the media missed in 2016 and his 2019 book, “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.” To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

Wednesday’s storming of the Capitol should not have come as a surprise to anyone who has paid attention to Donald Trump’s election-related conspiracy-mongering in the weeks since November 3. Politico’s chief political correspondent Tim Alberta has been interacting with Trump supporters for months now and joins today’s show to explain why Wednesday’s Capitol siege was almost inevitable: “What we saw at every step of the way was a coordinated and deliberate campaign” by the president, high ranking Republicans, and far-right media personalities “to deceive the American public,” Alberta tells Sarah and Steve.   Show Notes: -“Jan. 6 Was 9 Weeks — And 4 Years — in the Making” by Tim Alberta in Politico. -American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump by Tim Alberta. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tim Alberta is chief political author at Politico and author of the 2019 New York Times Bestseller, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump."We talk about what comes next for the Republican party in the wake of an election where it showed promising trends for the future, but in which the party's leader and the sitting president told lie after lie about the integrity of the election, dragging some of the leading figures in the party with him.Tim's recent piece, "The Election that Broke the Republican Party," is here.The interview with Democrat David Shor in Politico about challenges facing the Democratic party is here.Outro music: "House of a Thousand Guitars" by Bruce Springsteen Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/thelonggame. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jay is joined by an old colleague and one of the best political reporters in America: Tim Alberta, of Politico. He is the author of the bestselling book “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.” He and Jay talk lockdown politics, the John Bolton book, Campaign 2020, and so on. Whom will Biden pick as his running mate? Will Trump dump Pence? Source

Jay is joined by an old colleague and one of the best political reporters in America: Tim Alberta, of Politico. He is the author of the bestselling book “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.” He and Jay talk lockdown politics, the John Bolton book, […]Sponsored by Express VPN, Gabi Join the conversation and comment on this podcast episode: https://ricochet.com/podcast/q-and-a/our-topsy-turvy-political-world/.Now become a Ricochet member for only $5.00 a month! Join and see what you’ve been missing: https://ricochet.com/membership/.Subscribe to Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger in Apple Podcasts (and leave a 5-star review, please!), or by RSS feed. For all our podcasts in one place, subscribe to the Ricochet Audio Network Superfeed in Apple Podcasts or by RSS feed.

Did Trump just do to his generals with his Iran attack what he did to the the GOP? Michael and Tim Alberta break it down. Tim Alberta is chief political correspondent for POLITICO Magazine, covering Donald Trump’s presidency and Capitol Hill and the author of American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.

Why Is Removing 1000 US Troops Trump's Top Priority?; Having Sold out Saudi Arabia, Trump Is Now Selling out Israel; The Author of "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump backgroundbriefing.org/donate twitter.com/ianmastersmedia facebook.com/ianmastersmedia

While Sharpie-gate continues to expose Trump’s hypersensitive ego, Michael talks with Tim Alberta about who’s winning the civil war in the Republican Party. Tim Alberta is chief political correspondent for POLITICO Magazine, covering Donald Trump’s presidency, Capitol Hill, the ideological warfare between and within the two parties, demographic change in America, and the evolving role of money in elections. His new book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.

As the race for the White House lurches into high gear, Tom’s guest today is Tim Alberta.He’s the Chief Political Correspondent for POLITICO, and he has written a terrific book about the recent history of the Republican Party, and the many internecine ideological and strategic battles that have raged within the GOP ever since the Presidency of George W. Bush.The book is called American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. It is a must-read for Washington insiders, political junkies and anyone who has ever pondered how Donald Trump has engineered such a dramatic transformation of the Republican Party as well as the conservative movement in America.

Tim Alberta is Politico Magazine's chief political correspondent. He is also the author of the bestselling new book American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. Alberta explains how the American fascist Donald Trump took over a very willing and eager Republican Party, what it was like to interview Donald Trump, and is the president a political genius, an idiot, or something all together different? Alberta also explains how and why the wicked sinner Donald Trump is viewed with such adoration and love by white right-wing Christians evangelicals-Christian Nationalists and the role of Michael Pence in nurturing and cementing that relationship. Alberta also offers his thoughts on if Donald Trump is a "sincere" racist and white supremacist or if such values and behavior are just a means to an end for him to secure and expand his political power. On this week's show Chauncey DeVega reflects on America's state of national exhaustion in response to a wave of white supremacist terrorist attacks which killed dozens of people across the country last week -- terrorism inspired and encouraged by Donald Trump, the Republican Party and their propaganda machine through the use of "stochastic terrorism" and "scripted violence". At the end of this week's show Chauncey shares an animal friend story -- with a happy ending -- about a sea lion which ended up inside of a humpback whale's mouth. SELECTED LINKS OF INTEREST FOR THIS EPISODE OF THE CHAUNCEY DEVEGA SHOW   Donald Trump, white supremacist violence, and American surrender: The connections are clear White Nationalists Praise El Paso Attack and Mock the Dead El Paso Shooter Coveted ‘Most Lethal' Rifle Ammunition on the Market The El Paso Shooting and the Gamification of Terror All of the extremist killings in the US in 2018 had links to right-wing extremism, according to new report The ‘gamification' of domestic terrorism online Dayton shooter obsessed with killing, Bellbrook classmates say Dayton shooter was in a pornogrind band that released songs about raping and killing women WHERE CAN YOU FIND ME? On Twitter: https://twitter.com/chaunceydevega On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chauncey.devega My email: chaunceydevega@gmail.com Leave a voicemail for The Chauncey DeVega Show: (262) 864-0154 HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT THE CHAUNCEY DEVEGA SHOW? Via Paypal at ChaunceyDeVega.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thechaunceydevegashow  Please subscribe to and follow my new podcast The Truth Report http://thetruthreportwithchaunceydevega.libsyn.com/ Music at the end of this week's episode of The Chauncey DeVega Show is by JC Brooks & the Uptown Sound. You can listen to some of their great music on Spotify.    

On The Gist, Trump and racism. In the interview, Politico’s Tim Alberta has been covering the Republican Party since 2009, back when it was “totally rudderless and beaten into the ground.” Ten years later, and though in control of the White House, the GOP isn’t in much better shape. Alberta’s new book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.      In the Spiel, impeachment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On The Gist, Trump and racism. In the interview, Politico’s Tim Alberta has been covering the Republican Party since 2009, back when it was “totally rudderless and beaten into the ground.” Ten years later, and though in control of the White House, the GOP isn’t in much better shape. Alberta’s new book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.      In the Spiel, impeachment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Politico reporter Tim Alberta sets out to answer the question, “How did Donald Trump become president of the United States?" Alberta joins Ben Domenech on the Federalist Radio Hour to discuss his new book, "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump." They recount the history of the Tea Party, the 2016 Republican convention, and how political judgements made by conservatives like Paul Ryan, Mark Meadows, and others look in retrospect.

What happened to the Republican Party? You’ve heard of it: One of the two major political collectives in America… the one that counts Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan among its heroes? The modern GOP branded itself on ideals of fiscal responsibility, fighting dictators from the Soviet Union to Saddam Hussein, and personal morality. Today, of course, the U.S. deficit is more than $1 trillion. New age dictators are our friends. And personal morality? Well, not so much. The GOP change has been swift, stark, and you might be led to believe, all because of one person: Donald Trump. But is that true? Was Trump the cause or the most logical outcome? Perhaps more importantly, is there any going back? Is the GOP now the POT – the Party of Trump?  That’s what I asked Tim Alberta, Politico Magazine’s Chief Political Correspondent and author of “American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.” For show notes & my newsletter, go to chrisriback.com.

If you want an expert on the Republican party, look to Tim Alberta, the author of the sensational new book American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. Jay puts him through his paces, and Alberta is in excellent form. He even jabs Jay at the end of the podcast about college football — in response to which, Jay can only smile weakly... Source

Politico chief political correspondent Tim Alberta joins the Remnant to discuss the behind-the-scenes machinations and the long-term implications of Trump’s securing the Republican presidential nomination–and then the presidency itself–in 2016, the subjects of his new book: American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.  Shownotes American … Continue reading Episode 120: American Carnage→ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tim Alberta, chief political correspondent for Politico Magazine, talks about his new book, American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.

On today's Bulwark Podcast, Politico Magazine's Tim Alberta joins host Charlie Sykes to discuss his new book: "American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump (https://www.amazon.com/American-Carnage-Front-Republican-President/dp/006289644X)." Special Guest: Tim Alberta.

Today on a special edition of Nerdcast with Scott Bland: Tim Alberta, chief political correspondent for POLITICO Magazine, talks about his forthcoming book AMERICAN CARNAGE: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.

On The Gist, Beto O’Rourke is running for president. But should he? In the interview, Tim Alberta, chief political correspondent for Politico,  recently wrote a piece about Reps. Ilhan Omar and Dean Phillips and the current divide in the Democratic party, “The Democrat’s Dilemma.” Alberta is here today to discuss the difficulty facing the Democratic party as some new members of Congress seem to be pushing the party further left and whether or not that’s a good thing. His upcoming book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.  In the Spiel, Paul Manafort goes to Ostrich Court. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On The Gist, Beto O’Rourke is running for president. But should he? In the interview, Tim Alberta, chief political correspondent for Politico,  recently wrote a piece about Reps. Ilhan Omar and Dean Phillips and the current divide in the Democratic party, “The Democrat’s Dilemma.” Alberta is here today to discuss the difficulty facing the Democratic party as some new members of Congress seem to be pushing the party further left and whether or not that’s a good thing. His upcoming book is American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump.  In the Spiel, Paul Manafort goes to Ostrich Court. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices