Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Today's episode is a little different. From time to time on Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other, it feels right to widen the lens and explore the cultural spaces where identity, community, leadership, and rivalry show up in everyday life. Sports is one of those spaces. In this crossover episode, Corey shares a conversation from his new weekly show, East Meets West Sports, co-hosted with longtime broadcast journalist Rick Garcia. The discussion blends NFL playoff analysis, college football insight, and cultural reflection, featuring veteran sportscaster and former Indiana Hoosier Fred Kalil. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to check out and subscribe to East Meets West Sports on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. From NFL playoff pressure and coaching dominoes to Indiana's unlikely championship run, Rick Garcia and Corey Nathan are joined by longtime sportscaster and former Hoosier Fred Kalil for sharp analysis, great stories, and old-school perspective. The fellas break down a wild opening round of the NFL playoffs, preview the divisional matchups, and sort through the ever-spinning coaching carousel before turning to college football's biggest stage. With Kalil's firsthand insight as a former Indiana football player, they explore locker-room culture, leadership, and what makes this Hoosiers run so improbable—and so compelling. They close by popping the culture, asking what it says about wealth, status, and excess when luxury car brands start building skyscrapers designed for people and their cars. Episode Highlights NFL Wild Card Weekend — What We Learned Bears stun the Packers with another late comeback 49ers survive the Eagles despite mounting injuries Rams edge Carolina in a tight matchup-driven battle Patriots expose Chargers' roster flaws Bills escape Jacksonville—and raise bigger questions Divisional Round Picks 49ers vs. Seahawks — turnover battle decides it Rams vs. Bears — weather, Stafford, and discipline Bills vs. Broncos — elite defense vs. playoff nerves Texans vs. Patriots — defense wins the day Coaching Carousel Chaos Why quarterbacks dictate coaching success—fair or not John Harbaugh as the league's top domino Why the Giants may be the most attractive opening Evaluating Kubiak, LaFleur, and other rising candidates College Football Championship Preview Indiana vs. Miami: toughness, depth, and discipline Why Indiana's rushing attack may decide it Extended playoffs and the toll on programs Special Guest: Fred Kalil Former Indiana walk-on on the Hoosiers' title run Old-school coaching vs. modern player culture Walk-ons, locker-room hierarchy, and earning reps SEC dominance, NIL money, and recruiting myths Bobby Knight stories, broadcast war stories, and sharp elbows Pop That Culture Luxury car brands building residential skyscrapers Parking your supercar in your living room—progress or excess? Big Picture Takeaways Playoff football still rewards defense and discipline Coaches rise and fall with their quarterbacks Culture matters—from locker rooms to ownership suites College football's success may be breaking its own structure Some traditions (and personalities) never go out of style Find Us On Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube Follow Rick Garcia: @RickGarciaNews on X (Twitter) Follow Corey Nathan: @coreysnathan on Substack, Threads, Instagram, X & more Thanks to Our Sponsors: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Talking across differences doesn't require agreement. It requires courage, curiosity, and the willingness to stay human.

What happens when a nation debates whether it has a moral obligation to intervene in the suffering of others — and who gets to decide? Corey is joined by Pulitzer Prize–finalist historian and bestselling author H.W. Brands, Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin, to explore the moral, political, and human tensions behind one of the most consequential debates in American history. The conversation centers on Professor Brands' latest book, America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War, which examines the clash between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Charles Lindbergh as the United States wrestled with whether to enter World War II — and what role America should play in the world. Professor Brands unpacks how personal biography shapes public history, introducing his framework of “big history” and “little history” — the intersection between sweeping geopolitical forces and the intimate human decisions that quietly steer them. From Lindbergh's unlikely rise as a celebrity political figure to Roosevelt's strategic ambiguity and political maneuvering, the discussion reveals how persuasion, fear, power, and moral reasoning collide in moments of national consequence. Corey and Dr. Brands explore the ethical tension at the heart of American leadership: When does power create responsibility? Is it moral for leaders to deceive in pursuit of what they believe is the greater good? How should a nation weigh human suffering abroad against the risks borne by its own citizens? The conversation also examines Lindbergh's controversial views on race, antisemitism, and isolationism — resisting caricature while reckoning honestly with their implications.  Along the way, Brands reflects on his craft as a historian — how he uses diaries, speeches, correspondence, and press transcripts to reconstruct interior lives while remaining faithful to documented sources — and why narrative storytelling remains essential to understanding political power and human choice. The episode closes by turning forward: What questions should we be asking now that future historians will use to understand our moment? How should Americans grapple with a changing global balance of power, rising geopolitical instability, and the enduring tension between national interest and moral responsibility? Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion About the Guest H.W. Brands holds the Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin and is the author of numerous acclaimed histories and biographies, including Founding Partisans, The First American, Traitor to His Class, and America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War. Two of his biographies were finalists for the Pulitzer Prize. Brands writes regularly on Substack at hwbrands.substack.com, where he publishes A User's Guide to History. His forthcoming biography of George Washington, American Patriarch, will be released this spring. Connect on Social Media Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to Our Sponsors: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Talking across differences doesn't require agreement. It requires courage, curiosity, and the willingness to stay human.

What happens when global power politics collide with lived human suffering — and who gets centered in the story? This conversation was recorded in the immediate aftermath of dramatic U.S. military action in Venezuela and amid rising concerns about immigration enforcement and political violence in the United States. If you're joining us via Pocket Casts, welcome — this show brings journalists, scholars, and public thinkers together for conversations across disagreement without turning each other into caricatures or shouting past one another. Corey is joined once again by leadership consultant, writer, and podcast host Lori Adams-Brown, who grew up in Venezuela and maintains deep personal ties to the country. Together, they explore what it means to witness global events not as abstractions, but as realities carried “in the bones.” Lori shares what Venezuela was like before decades of authoritarian rule reshaped everyday life — the culture, beauty, resilience, humor, and communal spirit that defined her childhood. She reflects on how collective trauma reshapes societies, how hyper-vigilance becomes normalized, and why resilience often comes with hidden costs. The conversation examines the recent removal of Nicolás Maduro, the geopolitical motivations behind U.S. involvement, and the danger of centering American political narratives over Venezuelan voices. Lori challenges listeners to resist ideological shortcuts and instead listen directly to those most affected — recognizing that Venezuelans are not a monolith, and that their responses blend relief, fear, grief, hope, and exhaustion all at once. Corey and Lori also explore how trauma — whether national, communal, or personal — can drive dogmatism, flatten nuance, and harden political identities. Drawing from Lori's background in trauma-informed leadership and cross-cultural work, they discuss how curiosity, humility, and self-regulation are essential if we're going to talk about politics and religion without dehumanizing one another. This is not a tidy conversation. It's not meant to be. It's an invitation to slow down, listen more carefully, and remember the human cost behind every headline. Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ✅ Support Venezuelan-owned businesses in your community and seek out Venezuelan voices and journalists when following this story. About the Guest: Lori Adams-Brown is a leadership consultant who helps global leaders build innovative and inclusive organizations. She is the host of the podcast A World of Difference, where she interviews leaders across cultures and industries, and the author of a thoughtful Substack exploring leadership, difference, trauma, and human connection. Lori grew up in Venezuela and brings a deeply personal perspective to conversations about democracy, power, and collective resilience.

This conversation was recorded in December, in the aftermath of a deadly antisemitic attack at a Hanukkah celebration in Australia and before subsequent escalations by the Trump administration, including actions involving Venezuela.  If you're joining us via Pocket Casts, welcome—this show brings journalists, scholars, and public figures together for conversations across disagreement without turning each other into caricatures and shouting past one another. Former Congressman Joe Walsh returns to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other for a wide-ranging, unflinching conversation about democracy, moral responsibility, and what it means to resist authoritarianism without losing our humanity. Joe and Corey reflect on rising antisemitism, political violence, and the dangerous normalization of cruelty in American public life. From Trump's character — and why it does matter — to the failures of both political parties, to the fear gripping immigrant communities across the country, this episode asks a hard but necessary question: What do we owe each other now? Joe speaks candidly about his journey from Tea Party firebrand to Democrat; the moral breaking points that forced him to leave MAGA; and why he believes understanding matters more than “finding common ground.” He also shares hard-earned lessons from years of engaging people across divides — including why the most important conversations almost always happen off-camera and one-on-one. The conversation also explores Joe's newest project, PAXIS, an initiative designed to provide real-time tools, information, and protection for immigrant communities targeted by ICE. Rather than merely reacting to injustice, Joe argues, we must build infrastructure for resistance that ordinary people can actually use. ✅ Learn more about or support PAXIS: paxis.app This is not a tidy conversation. It's not meant to be. It's a human one. Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ✅ Learn more about or support PAXIS: paxis.app About the Guest: Joe Walsh is a former U.S. Congressman, former Republican presidential candidate, and former nationally syndicated conservative radio host who has become one of the most outspoken critics of MAGA authoritarianism. He is the host of The Social Contract podcast and a leading voice calling for moral clarity, democratic accountability, and citizen engagement across political divides. Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to Our Sponsors: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Talking across differences doesn't require agreement. It requires courage, honesty, and the willingness to stay human.

Bishop Mary Glasspool models what it looks like to live one's convictions with courage, humility, and grace — this “Best Of” episode reminds us that pluralism is not an abstraction, but a practice. Best Of TP&R As we close out the year, we're resurfacing a small handful of conversations from the Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other archive that best reflect what this show exists to do: create space for thoughtful disagreement, moral seriousness, and the hard work of living together in a pluralistic democracy. In this Best of 2025 spotlight, we revisit a deeply human and spiritually rich conversation with Bishop Mary D. Glasspool, a pioneering leader in the Episcopal Church whose life and ministry embody the possibility of faith without fear, conviction without coercion, and leadership without domination. From her early years growing up in the church, to wrestling with vocation, identity, and resistance from within her own denomination, Bishop Glasspool reflects on what it means to remain rooted in one's faith while staying genuinely open to others — across theology, politics, and lived experience. This is not a conversation about winning arguments. It's about becoming the kind of people who can stay in relationship even when the conversations are hard. Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion What We Explore Growing up in the Episcopal Church and discovering a call to ministry Wrestling with faith, sexuality, and belonging during moments of deep personal and institutional resistance The historic ordination of women and the legacy of the Philadelphia 11 Why being deeply rooted in one's own faith can make genuine interfaith dialogue possible Navigating polarization, fear, and exhaustion within religious communities The difference between hope and expectation — and why hope must remain central How listening, silence, and collaboration can heal what competition and certainty have fractured Highlights & Timestamps [00:00:00] Why this conversation still matters — and why we're resurfacing it now [00:03:00] Growing up Episcopalian and the formative power of place, family, and church [00:13:00] Faith as identity vs. faith as choice — and learning to remain rooted without fear [00:19:00] Women's ordination, the Philadelphia 11, and a church at a crossroads [00:31:00] Reconciling vocation, sexuality, and faith when the institution says “no” [00:40:00] Creating space for people who disagree — without surrendering conviction [00:48:00] Clergy exhaustion, political division, and the call to preach the basics [00:53:00] Hope vs. expectation — and why hope leaves the future in God's hands [00:59:00] Why diversity is a strength — and what it takes to live that truth [01:06:00] Three closing reflections: beyond binaries, the discipline of listening, and collaboration over competition Memorable Quotes

E.J. Dionne brings moral clarity and humility to the hardest questions in public life — this “Best Of” episode reminds us what real dialogue can be. Best Of TP&R As we close out the year, we're resurfacing a small handful of conversations from the Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other archive that best reflect what this show exists to do: create space for thoughtful disagreement, moral seriousness, and the hard work of living together in a pluralistic democracy. In this Best of 2025 spotlight, we revisit one of the year's most profound and inspiring conversations — a powerful episode featuring journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr. From discussing the soul of democracy to the essential role of faith and hope in civic life, E.J. offers wisdom forged over decades of public service, writing, and dialogue. Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion What We Explore: How E.J.'s upbringing shaped his approach to political argument. The moral imperative of engaging with ideas we disagree with. The difference between optimism and hope — and why the latter is vital. How faith and pluralism can bridge deep divides. Highlights & Timestamps: [00:03:00] E.J. on his father's influence in encouraging thoughtful disagreement. [00:06:00] Delving into DEI and the “woke” discourse — beyond caricatures. [00:10:00] Unexpected ways the Trump era united pro-democracy coalitions. [00:15:00] Economic pain and populist anger in Fall River, Massachusetts. [00:24:00] The virtue of hope in sustaining public life and discourse. [00:36:00] E.J.'s personal faith journey and the humility of belief. [00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis and the Catholic Church's evolution. [01:05:00] What keeps E.J. up at night — and what gives him hope. Memorable Quotes: "In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne "Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne "You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne "We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan Resources & Mentions: E.J. Dionne, Brookings Institution: www.brookings.edu/people/e-j-dionne Column, New York Times: www.nytimes.com/by/e-j-dionne-jr Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to Our Sponsors: Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group It's not about agreeing on everything. It's about disagreeing with integrity, and listening with love.

Best Of TP&R As we close out the year, we're resurfacing a small handful of conversations from the Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other archive that best reflect what this show exists to do: create space for thoughtful disagreement, moral seriousness, and the hard work of living together in a pluralistic democracy. This conversation with Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner stands out as a true highlight — not just because of the ideas discussed, but because of the spirit in which they're explored: curiosity, generosity, and an insistence that liberal democracy is something we must actively practice. Whether this is your first time hearing it or you're returning to it, I'm really glad you're here.   Why defending viewpoint diversity might be the most radical—and necessary—act in higher education today. What a treat to welcome two leading voices in the fight for viewpoint diversity and constructive civic dialogue: Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at Brookings and author of The Constitution of Knowledge, and Liz Joyner, founder of The Village Square. Recorded at a moment of rising polarization — and resurfaced now because its insights have only grown more urgent — Jon and Liz unpack the mission of Heterodox Academy (HxA). As board members, Jon and Liz unpack the organization's mission to restore open inquiry and truth-seeking within higher education—and how these values are essential to preserving our democracy at large. With personal stories, sharp analysis, and even a few laughs, they explore what we each can do to counter the ecosystem of illiberalism and strengthen the social fabric. Calls to Action: ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn't have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Timestamps & Topics [00:00:00] Intro: What's broken in our democracy and how we fix it [00:01:00] Meet the guests: Jonathan Rauch and Liz Joyner [00:03:00] What is Heterodox Academy and how did it begin? [00:06:00] Rauch on early signs of "wokeness" and Kindly Inquisitors [00:08:00] Joyner's grassroots experience with ideological diversity at Village Square [00:10:00] The "ecosystem of illiberalism" and why liberal principles matter [00:15:00] Can HxA help defend against external political coercion? [00:20:00] Are we headed toward institutional collapse or renewal? [00:25:00] Speech vs. coercion: The cultural and legal frontlines [00:33:00] Personal costs of speaking out: Corey's Chappelle story [00:36:00] What should institutions do to defend free speech? [00:39:00] On the Trump administration's authoritarian tactics [00:45:00] Fears for 2026 and 2028 elections [00:48:00] Signs of progress: Academic reform, FIRE, and HxA programs [00:54:00] How to break the cycle of intolerance [00:56:00] How do we actually talk to people who disagree? [01:01:00] "Love people back into communion with liberalism" [01:08:00] The local vs. national divide—learning from LA's fires & ICE raids [01:14:00] Final reflections: Reclaiming truth, curiosity, and compassion Key Takeaways Liberalism needs defenders: Jon reminds us that truth-seeking demands criticism—and that “criticism hurts, but it's necessary.” Civic spaces matter: Liz underscores the importance of local, respectful dialogue and building trust before crisis hits. The ecosystem is the problem: Illiberalism isn't coming from just one side; it's a reactive spiral we must all help disrupt. Institutions must hold firm: It's not disagreement that's dangerous—it's coercion by powerful entities that silence dissent. Each of us has a role: From book clubs to coffee shops, we can all “love people back into communion with liberalism.” Notable Quotes “We are better together. A diverse people can self-govern—if we protect the institutions that help us do so.” – Liz Joyner “If I'm talking, I'm not learning. If I'm listening, I probably am.” – Jonathan Rauch “What I'd like you to talk about today is how we can love people back into communion with liberalism.” – Quoting Jonathan V. Last (via Liz Joyner) Resources & Mentions Heterodox Academy - heterodoxacademy.org The Constitution of Knowledge - www.brookings.edu/books/the-constitution-of-knowledge Kindly Inquisitors - press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/K/bo18140749.html A University the World Has Never Seen- heterodoxacademy.substack.com/p/a-university-the-world-has-never Jonathan Rauch- jonathanrauch.typepad.com Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Our Sponsors Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group May your next conversation make room for disagreement — and still leave space for curiosity, courage, and care.

A conversation worth revisiting. Mónica Guzmán's work captures the spirit of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other at its best: fearlessly curious, deeply humane, and committed to bridging divides without sacrificing conviction. In this Best of TP&R episode, Corey revisits his wide-ranging and deeply grounded conversation with Mónica Guzmán — journalist, author of I Never Thought of It That Way, Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels, and one of the most trusted voices in America's bridge-building movement. Together, they explore why outrage so easily masquerades as moral clarity, how curiosity can act as a cooling force in moments of political rage, and why dialogue and activism are not opposing paths but necessary partners. Mónica reflects candidly on her own fears, boundaries, and doubts — including how to know when understanding must give way to action, and how to stay vigilant without becoming certain too quickly. This conversation also digs into free speech, Congress's abdication of responsibility, the ethics of moderation and “proven falsehoods,” and why policing structure rather than content may be one of the most overlooked tools for healthier public discourse. If you're new to TP&R — or if you've been looking for a hopeful, serious, and intellectually honest entry point into what this show is about — this episode remains one of our clearest expressions of that mission. Calls to Action ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Help spread the message of meaningful conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen ✅ Join the community on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch & subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Timestamps & Key Topics [00:00] Why revisiting this conversation matters right now [00:03] Processing elections without losing perspective [00:06] Recognizing when outrage needs curiosity [00:09] Congress, executive power, and shared civic frustration [00:12] COVID, free speech, and lived experience across divides [00:17] When understanding persuades — and when it doesn't [00:20] Boundaries, bridge-burning, and “loving from a safe distance” [00:28] Moderation, misinformation, and policing structure vs. content [00:37] Dialogue and activism — why we need both [00:45] What good journalism actually looks like [00:50] Where Mónica's bridge-building instinct began [00:57] Parenting, power, and conflict at the most human level [01:00] The real work of talking politics & religion without killing each other Key Takeaways • Outrage isn't clarity — it's often unexamined fear looking for certainty. • Curiosity doesn't weaken conviction; it strengthens discernment. • Dialogue without action can become navel-gazing — but action without dialogue is reckless. • Policing how we engage often matters more than policing what is said. • Bridge-building isn't naïve optimism; it's disciplined moral courage. Notable Quotes “Engagement is not endorsement.” “Dialogue without activism is navel-gazing. Activism without dialogue is doomed.” “Certainty is tempting — vigilance is harder.” “Sometimes courage looks like not burning the bridge.” Connect with Corey Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Our Sponsors Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group

A raw, reflective journey through the political upheavals, personal reckonings, and hard-won hope of 2025. Episode Summary Corey takes us on a tour of 2025's most pivotal moments—both in politics and in his own life. He recounts the Trump administration's controversial actions, the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and civic responses like the No Kings Rallies. Interwoven are deeply personal stories: Corey's mental health struggles, the loss of a friendship, and a psychotic break that led to crucial self-reflection. But it's also a celebration: of the TP&R community, of new collaborations with Pew Research Center and Weave, and of the many courageous conversations shared on the pod. From Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde to Governor John Kasich, from wildfires to wake-up calls, 2025 was a year of complexity—and Corey captures it all with honesty and heart. Calls to Action ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Help spread the message of meaningful conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen ✅ Join the community on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch & subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Timestamps & Topics [00:00] Opening & Shoutouts Thanks to Pew Research Center, Village Square, and our new show: East Meets West Sports  [01:30] Year in Political Review Trump's second term: Pardons, ICE expansion, inflation, foreign policy failures The assassination of Charlie Kirk and national grief 2025 elections and democratic resilience [08:00] The No Kings Rallies & Civic Engagement An unforgettable conversation with an 87-year-old woman who attended Dr. King's “I Have a Dream” speech Reflections on American threats—and hope [09:30] Personal Reckonings A broken friendship, mental health collapse, setting healthy boundaries “One of the few times I had to block someone I once considered a friend.” [14:00] TP&R in 2025: The Guests Who Shaped the Year Revisiting conversations with: Wajahat Ali Dr. Beth Allison Barr Jonathan Rauch & Liz Joyner Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde Rep. Ritchie Torres David French McKay Coppins, EJ Dionne, Isaac Saul & more! [24:00] On Free Speech & Evolving Views Why Corey no longer blocks or mutes—he now believes in the power of “better speech” [26:00] Favorite Moments & New Projects Civic bridges with Weave Collaboration with Pew Research Launching East Meets West Sports [38:00] Hard-Won Wisdom: 5 Boundaries for Healthier Dialogue When it's time to walk away from toxic conversations Notable Quotes “We're facing unprecedented threats to our democracy—but also experiencing a renaissance in civic engagement.” “The best way to combat bad speech is with good speech. Better speech.” Connect with Corey Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Our Sponsors Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org The Village Square: villagesquare.us Meza Wealth Management: mezawealth.com Proud members of The Democracy Group Final Reflections Take a breath. Take inventory. Set boundaries. And step into the new year with gentleness and respect. Wishing you a peaceful end to 2025 and a hopeful beginning to 2026. Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, and yes… Happy Festivus!

A Weaver's Journey of Art, Advocacy, and Belonging — from WEAVE: The Social Fabric Project In this edition of our special Weavers series, we sit down with Nikki Harris—fiber artist, mother, advocate, and community connector from Baltimore, Maryland. Through art and action, Nikki embodies what it means to weave the social fabric. She shares her journey from self-taught fiber artist to founding HGE Designs, and from 911 dispatcher to autism advocate with Pathfinders for Autism. This conversation delves into what it truly means to create space—for healing, for connection, and for community. Nikki opens up about raising her son Roman, navigating systems as a caregiver, and the spiritual resilience it takes to serve while healing herself. Calls to Action ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Help spread the message of meaningful conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you listen ✅ Join the community on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch & subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Timestamps & Highlights [00:01:00] –

A deeply clarifying conversation about fear, faith, and how Christians can reclaim a healthier way of engaging in public life. In this ICYMI release, Corey revisits his thoughtful and timely dialogue with Curtis Chang—public theologian, founder of Redeeming Babel, and co-creator (with David French, Dr. Russell Moore and Nancy French) of The After Party, a project devoted to healing the political fractures tearing churches and friendships apart. Curtis explains why so much of our modern polarization isn't actually about facts, but untended anxiety posing as conviction. He lays out how Christians can cultivate moral confidence without moral combat, why conspiracy theories often function as emotional painkillers, and what it looks like to move from combatant, cynic, or exhausted bystander toward the spiritual posture of a disciple. If you're new to TP&R thanks to Podbean, Overcast, or a friend's recommendation, this conversation is a grounded, hopeful entry point into what we're about.

Forget what you think you know about religion in America. The latest research from Pew reveals a story that's more complex—and more hopeful—than the headlines suggest. Corey sits down with Gregory A. Smith, who's spent over two decades studying how faith and identity shape American public life. In this no-fluff conversation, Greg unpacks the surprising stabilization of religious affiliation, the myths about Gen Z's spiritual life, and how a well-worded survey can teach us more than a pundit ever could. They also explore the emotional courage it takes to study religion without evangelizing it—and why 80% of Christians say you don't have to agree about Trump to be a “good Christian.”

A luminous conversation about leadership, love, and what spiritual courage looks like in a polarized age. In this ICYMI episode, Corey revisits his deeply moving conversation with Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, Episcopal Bishop of Washington and one of the most trusted—and most tested—faith leaders in American public life. With striking humility and clarity, Bishop Budde reflects on her faith journey, her response to political turbulence, her viral inauguration sermon, and the inner practices that sustain grace under pressure.

One of the clearest, most necessary voices on Ukraine, democracy, and what the West keeps getting wrong. In this ICYMI episode, Corey revisits his most recent conversation with Dr. Alexander Vindman — retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel, former Director for European Affairs on the National Security Council, and author of The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine. From the thousand-year struggle for Ukrainian sovereignty to why U.S. administrations repeatedly misread Russia, Vindman explains how we arrived at this moment — and what a values-based foreign policy (“neo-idealism”) could mean for America's future. He also opens up about family history, his brother Eugene's first term in Congress, and what gives him both concern and hope in a destabilized world.

One of the most compelling personal and political stories in Congress today — raw, principled, and deeply human. In this ICYMI episode, Corey revisits his conversation with Congressman Ritchie Torres, who represents New York's 15th district in the Bronx. With refreshing candor, Torres shares his journey from public housing and poverty to becoming the first openly LGBTQ elected official from the Bronx and one of the most forthright voices in American politics. He discusses the values that shape his independence, his commitment to social justice, why he proudly defends Israel despite intense backlash, and the inner tools he uses to face personal and political challenges — all while staying focused on the people he serves.

One of the most clarifying conversations we've had about conscience, character, and navigating our divisions with integrity. In this ICYMI release, Corey revisits his conversation with David French — New York Times columnist, attorney, veteran, and one of the most thoughtful voices on religious liberty, civic virtue, polarization, and how principled disagreement can strengthen rather than destroy a pluralistic society. David unpacks how he thinks about political persuasion, why courage and humility are twin civic virtues, what it means to disagree in good faith, how social media distorts our moral instincts, and why democracy requires both conviction and restraint. If you're new to TP&R thanks to Podbean, Overcast, or a friend's recommendation, this episode is an ideal introduction: rigorous, nuanced, grounded in lived experience, and rooted in a deep belief in the dignity of difference.

One of the most essential conversations we've had — on authoritarianism, influence campaigns, and what it takes to defend democracy. In this ICYMI release, Corey revisits his conversation with Anne Applebaum — Pulitzer Prize–winning historian, staff writer at The Atlantic, and one of the world's leading experts on modern authoritarianism. Anne explains how autocrats collaborate across borders, why propaganda spreads so easily, how economic complicity in the West has empowered illiberal regimes, and what ordinary citizens can actually do to strengthen democratic culture. If you're new to TP&R thanks to Podbean, Overcast or were recommended this program by a friend, this conversation is the perfect introduction: rigorous, accessible, global in scope, and grounded in the belief that democratic values are worth defending.

One of TP&R's all-time standout conversations—perfect for new listeners discovering the show this week. In this special ICYMI release, Corey revisits his deeply human, deeply honest conversation with David Brooks—New York Times columnist, bestselling author of The Second Mountain and How to Know a Person, and one of the most thoughtful public voices on moral formation, democracy, and what it takes to live well with one another. This episode has become a listener favorite not because it's political in the usual sense… but because it's personal. Corey and David talk candidly about depression, friendship, loss, faith, identity, community-building, and the inner transformations required for a democratic people to live together without coming apart. If you're new to TP&R thanks to the Podbean or Overcast promotions, start here. This is TP&R at its best: honest, vulnerable, intellectually rigorous, and grounded in real moral imagination.

Call it a holiday palate cleanser: today's TP&R feed features a special drop from East Meets West Sports. Be sure to find this new show on all the apps, follow, rate, review... You know the drill. Enjoy! Can Shedeur Sanders prove he's “the one” – or is Cleveland just buying time? Meanwhile, LA sports shake things up from the locker room to the front office. In this riveting holiday edition of East Meets West Sports, Rick Garcia and Corey Nathan dive deep into the buzz surrounding Shedeur Sanders, who made his first NFL start at QB with the Browns amid swirling controversy, legacy baggage, and sky-high expectations. Is he truly “who they've been waiting for”—or just the latest victim of hype? From there, they pivot to LA's sports scene, dissecting how the Dodgers' analytics dynasty is reshaping the Lakers' future following their acquisition. Can a World Series-winning front office build an NBA championship contender? They round things out with reflections on sports gratitude this Thanksgiving—from New York family traditions to LA playoff dreams. ⏱️ Timestamps & Topics Time Segment 00:00 – 01:30

What PRRI's Latest Data Reveals About Our Deepening Divide In the shadow of rising polarization, this episode dives deep into the latest findings from PRRI's American Values Survey, Trump's Unprecedented Actions Deepen Asymmetric Divides. Corey is joined by Dr. Melissa Deckman to break down the data—and what it tells us about party loyalty, trust in institutions, Christian nationalism, and shifting norms around religion and identity. They also unpack how Gen Z is engaging with this cultural landscape, particularly the gender divide between young men and women, and what the term “party agnostic” really means for the next generation of voters.

Repairing the damage—in our democracy, in our relationships, and in ourselves. ✨ Episode Summary Let's talk about redemption—what it really means to repair what's been broken, whether in our democracy or in our personal lives, and how we can tell the difference between a true apology and just going through the motions. Inspired by a powerful Substack piece by Mike Madrid, we'll reflect on the nuances between performative apologies and genuine repentance, weaving in theological insights, literary references like East of Eden, and real-life examples. We'll consider how we engage with those who have caused harm—and what it means to truly repair what's broken, especially as Thanksgiving and moments of family reconnection approach.

What do you get when a data scientist with a knack for sports betting and political forecasting returns to the pod? A masterclass in what polling can and can't do, how bad assumptions skew our democracy, and why Carl Allen thinks we need to stop blaming the camera for the race result. In this fascinating, far-ranging convo, Corey and Carl Allen (author of The Polls Weren't Wrong) break down why political polling is misunderstood, how data intersects with integrity, and where we go from here in the 2026 election cycle. They also take a surprising detour into MLB match-fixing, sports betting strategies, and how the “edge of the bell curve” reveals more than most talking heads on TV.

"And now for something completely different..." In a world flooded with outrage and anxiety, taking stock of the good isn't naive—it's necessary. Corey shifts the lens from polarization and pessimism to the power of thankfulness. Amid a flood of bad news and anxiety about the state of democracy, Corey invites listeners to pause and consider what's good—not in a naive way, but as an intentional act of civic and spiritual grounding. With stories from his journaling practice, reflections on recent political events, and a few personal notes, Corey makes the case that gratitude isn't just a feel-good exercise—it's a form of resistance against despair.

What happens when a former military cop, existentialist philosopher, and Substack firebrand walks into a podcast? You get this riveting conversation between Corey and Christopher Armitage, who pulls no punches when it comes to democracy, resistance, and why “soft secession” might be the only sane response to creeping authoritarianism. Chris is a U.S. Air Force veteran, former law enforcement officer, prolific writer, and founder of The Existentialist Republic. From his early days in New Jersey wrestling circles to his transformation into an outspoken advocate for “soft secession,” Chris shares deeply personal reflections and bold policy ideas aimed at confronting rising authoritarianism in America. Through a mix of dark humor, philosophical grounding, and actionable insights, Chris breaks down: What “soft secession” really means (hint: it's not Civil War 2.0), How localism and economic independence can fortify democracy, What ICE agents, serotonin, and Friedrich Nietzsche have in common, And why writing with relentless truth might be the ultimate form of resistance. This isn't just another political chat—it's a defibrillator for the democratic spirit. ⏱️ Timestamps & Key Topics [00:00] Welcome & Chris's multi-faceted background [00:04] Jersey roots, high school wrestling, and joining the Air Force [00:07] Serving as military police & navigating mental health in public service [00:13] From law enforcement to Substack: becoming a full-time writer [00:16] On Project 2025, ICE, authoritarianism, and systemic corruption [00:24] What is “soft secession” and why does it matter now? [00:29] Holding federal tax dollars in escrow — a controversial idea [00:33] Learning from Viktor Orbán, The Troubles, and global democracies [00:38] ICE overreach, due process violations, and local accountability [00:45] TP&R question: Can we still talk across our differences? [00:49] Dopamine vs. serotonin: the brain chemistry of politics [00:52] Final reflections: Hope, joy, and being a rebel for the good

Not every relationship can—or should—be salvaged. In this solo episode, Corey shares a personal story and outlines five unmistakable red flags that tell you it's time to step back to protect your peace. Sometimes, staying in the conversation means knowing when to step away. In this raw and introspective solo episode, host Corey Nathan opens up about a deeply personal encounter that pushed him to confront a painful question: When is it time to “unfriend” someone—really unfriend them? With vulnerability and clarity, Corey unpacks a recent experience with someone who crossed multiple emotional and ideological lines. What begins as a story about a text thread gone wrong unfolds into a thoughtful reflection on the emotional cost of dialogue, the importance of mutual respect, and the red lines we all must define for ourselves if we're to stay sane and whole in polarized times. If you've ever wrestled with staying true to your values while trying to build bridges, this episode will resonate deeply.

From Project 2025 to creeping authoritarianism, Atlantic journalist David A. Graham lays out the threats to democracy — and why he still believes it's worth defending. Glad to have this timely conversation with David A. Graham, staff writer at The Atlantic, author of the Atlantic Daily newsletter, and the mind behind two major works: THE PROJECT: How Project 2025 Is Reshaping America and his latest featured story in THE ATLANTIC, Donald Trump's Plan to Subvert the Midterms Is Already Underway. In this jam-packed discussion, David breaks down the real-world impact of Project 2025, why competitive authoritarianism isn't just for foreign regimes anymore, and what history can teach us about the fragility—and resilience—of American democracy.  We also explore David's deep love for jazz and Americana music, his reflections on faith and public discourse, and how local connections might be the key to healing national divides. This is not a story about doom. It's about awareness, preparedness, and the people working behind the scenes to protect democracy.  

How one rural weaver is helping neighbors feel seen, supported, and connected in Wilkes County, NC — and what we can learn from her example. We are kicking off something special. This episode is the first in a new ongoing series highlighting Weavers — local leaders around the country who are rebuilding trust and community from the ground up through Weave: The Social Fabric Project (weavers.org). Our inaugural guest is LB Prevette — a “rural rejuvenator,” community connector, and what she jokingly (but truthfully) calls an “aggressive friend.” LB is based in Wilkes County, North Carolina, where she works to create safe, inclusive, deeply rooted community spaces for queer youth, neighbors in recovery, families, and folks who don't always feel seen in small-town America. We talk about what it means to leave home — and to return to it. We talk about pain, belonging, queerness in Appalachia, rebuilding trust one relationship at a time, and why community isn't built in speeches — it's built in porches, casseroles, group texts, and checking in at the exact moment someone needs it. And we talk about Merle's — the community bar / gathering space LB helped co-found — a place that feels less like a bar and more like your cool aunt's house party where everyone belongs. This is not a story about charity. It's a story about returning to each other.

Where baseball, family, and democracy meet — Mike Madrid reminds us what's worth fighting for in America. If you didn't catch our most recent conversation with friend of the pod, Mike Madrid, well... where were ya? We recorded this one right around July 4th and it's still on point! What'd ya expect with the brilliant Mike Madrid?!?! So join us in welcoming back political consultant, author, and Substack contributor Mike Madrid. A renowned expert on Latino voters and co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Mike brings his profound insights on American politics, identity, and democracy. Together, Corey and Mike explore deeply personal stories, historical context, and present-day political dynamics, all while weaving in the emotional fabric that connects generations and communities.

“The North Star is the truth. Tell it. And if you can't, explain why.” — Col. David Lapan (Ret.) We had the distinct honor of sitting down with Colonel David Lapan, retired Marine and former spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, Secretaries of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In a wide-ranging, timely conversation, Colonel Lapan unpacks the critical balance between national security and democratic accountability, the dangers of politicizing the military, and how press freedom strengthens—not weakens—our institutions. We delve into his 30+ years of military service, his pivotal role in launching the media embed program during the Iraq War, and why he left DHS during the Trump administration. Lapan also shares pointed thoughts on recent efforts to restrict Pentagon press access and the implications of political theater in national defense.

Surviving Triangulation in a Polarized World It's time to reckon with one of the toughest questions in our current public discourse: “How can you think that?” Through stories from his personal and professional life, host Corey Nathan unpacks the emotionally draining phenomenon of triangulation—when we're caught in the middle of opposing viewpoints—and explores how we can respond with curiosity and conviction without losing our sanity. From navigating impossible conversations to confronting conspiracy theories (like the FBI staging Jan. 6?!), Corey challenges listeners to stay in tough conversations while guarding their own well-being. Drawing inspiration from a powerful essay by Christopher Armitage on The Existentialist Republic, this episode dives into the psychology of belief, the cost of defection from "reality bubbles," and the quiet strength of one-degree influence. Whether you're a peacemaker, bridge-builder, or just trying to keep your sanity in polarized times, this one's for you.

"If we lived in the poorest, most dangerous neighborhoods, we'd understand better how to love and serve." — Dr. Kurt Ver Beek It was great to sit down with Dr. Kurt Ver Beek, co-founder of the Association for a More Just Society (ASJ), who has lived and worked in Honduras for nearly four decades. From battling systemic corruption to reducing the homicide rate in one of the world's most dangerous communities, Kurt shares a riveting account of faith in action and public justice rooted in Christian conviction. We explore the difference between traditional missionary work and systemic transformation, how theological frameworks can drive bold action, and why brave Christianity is needed now more than ever.

A candid reflection on staying grounded while engaging in contentious conversations—and when to take a step back. ✨ Episode Summary In this heartfelt solo talk, host Corey Nathan goes back to the fundamentals of Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other. Reflecting on recent emotionally charged interactions—some painfully personal—Corey revisits five foundational principles that guide his conversations and this podcast's mission. He opens up about the emotional toll of receiving attacks from opposing sides of the political and religious spectrum and how even with years of practice, the work of engaging respectfully remains challenging and ongoing. Here are the five essentials Corey leans into when the temperature rises:

Exploring how Christian conviction and civic love — inspired by the faith of Willie Faye and Mahalia Jackson's generation — can transcend political tribalism.

A raw look at which relationships and conversations are worth our time—and when to just say f* it. ✨ Episode Summary In this candid, off-the-cuff talk, Corey wrestles with a series of deeply personal and philosophical questions that lie at the heart of this progam's mission:

Why defending viewpoint diversity might be the most radical—and necessary—act in higher education today.

In times of national tragedy, can we resist the urge to turn our grief into political ammo? Sadly, our current leaders can't seem to find their better angels. So who's gonna do the right thing?

What if the role of “pastor's wife” wasn't biblical at all, but a cultural invention that sidelined women from ministry? Dr. Beth Allison Barr pulls back the curtain on how power, patriarchy, and politics shaped Evangelical churches—and why reclaiming women's voices could change everything. Episode Summary So glad to sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr—medievalist, church historian, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor's Wife—for a candid conversation about faith, history, evangelical subcultures, and women's leadership in the church. Beth traces how the modern “pastor's wife” role emerged alongside the decline of women's ordination, shows how women have always done pastoral work, and offers grounded, hope-filled ways to talk across differences in a volatile moment.

After October 7, Rabbi Michael Holzman wasn't just mourning—he was mobilizing. A project he had already spent years developing. Discover how one rabbi is using ancient wisdom, civic rituals, and interfaith grit to heal our fractured democracy. In this episode, we sit down with Rabbi Michael Holzman, spiritual leader of the Northern Virginia Hebrew Congregation and founder of the Rebuilding Democracy Project. Together, we explore the fragile yet vital intersection of faith, politics, and civic life, tackling tough questions with grace, insight, and a touch of humor. From personal stories of family division over politics to deeply Jewish perspectives on democracy, Rabbi Holzman opens up about how religious communities can serve as training grounds for better civic engagement. He also shares how his own path—from a secular upbringing to becoming a reform rabbi—shaped his commitment to democratic values.

A deeply personal and timely conversation with Governor John Kasich on bridging divides, living your values, and why forgiveness is essential in today's fractured political landscape. We were so pleased to be joined by Governor John Kasich who opens up about the role of faith, forgiveness, and civic duty in his life and career. The conversation spans everything from the tragic loss of his parents to a drunk driver, his evolving views on religion and politics, to the lessons shared in his newest book Heaven Help Us. Governor Kasich's winsome curiosity sparked a profound dialogue about personal transformation, ideological differences, and how to build bridges in divided times.

✨ This Is Not the Way — The Tragedy of the Assassination of Charlie Kirk and What It Means for Our Country In this episode, we take time to reflect on the shocking assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, who was gunned down while speaking at a college campus. Instead of political posturing, let's have humane, constructive dialogue—and reject dehumanization, resist scapegoating, and reclaim our shared humanity. Marking this tragedy on the anniversary of 9/11, we'll look at Lincoln's words and the bipartisan statements of former presidents to remind us: "We are not enemies, but friends." This is not a moment for tribal rage or performative outrage—this is a moment to mourn, reflect, and reach across divides.

Why defending expression—even the speech you hate—is essential to democracy in 2025. Episode Summary: It was great to welcome back Greg Lukianoff, President and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Greg is also a New York Times bestselling author and executive producer of the feature-length documentaries Can We Take a Joke? (2015) and the award-winning Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story (2020). In this conversation, we dive deep into the evolving challenges to free speech, the myths that undermine it, and why defending expression—even the speech we disagree with—is essential to democracy. Drawing on personal stories, historical lessons, and his recent book The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech and Why They Fail, Greg discusses how free expression protects us from tyranny, the importance of principled advocacy, and how we can better engage across divides.

Dobson and MacArthur shaped a movement. Now it's time to ask: at what cost? ✨ Episode Summary In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Corey Nathan is joined by author and public theologian Lisa Sharon Harper and pastor Joe Smith to explore the complex legacies of James Dobson and John MacArthur—two towering figures in American Evangelicalism who recently passed away. What starts as a reflective discussion on personal experiences with Dobson's and MacArthur's teachings evolves into a profound analysis of spiritual formation, systemic violence, and the urgent need for a new way forward in faith communities. Together, the guests courageously confront the intersections of race, gender, theology, and power—and what it means to heal, both personally and as a collective. ⏱️ Timestamps Time Topic 00:00 Introduction to the episode & guests 01:00 Lisa Sharon Harper on her spiritual beginnings 03:00 Legacy and impact of James Dobson 08:00 Dobson's theology of discipline and its cultural roots 14:00 The trauma of “biblical” corporal punishment 20:00 Confessions of former Dobson followers — personal growth and regret 25:00 John MacArthur's institutional power and theological rigidity 30:00 Colonialism and the colonization of scripture 36:00 Reading scripture through empire vs. liberation 44:00 Who benefits from dominant theological frameworks? 48:00 Embracing humility and paradigm shifts in theology 54:00 Stories of change: how family and love reshape theology 1:02:00 Creating soft landing spaces for theological transformation 1:08:00 Substack, Freedom Road, and Lisa's ongoing work 1:10:00 Final reflections on urgent action, humility, and grace

What happens when law firms, universities, and elections come under fire—and how we can all help hold the line for democracy.

Is there any escaping the "Us vs. Them" mindset?

Dr. Terence Lester on overcoming poverty, confronting systemic racism in education, and how we can show up for students our schools are failing. Introduction: Dr. Terence Lester is an activist, speaker, professor, and founder of Love Beyond Walls, a nonprofit focused on raising awareness about poverty and homelessness. Dr. Lester shares his remarkable story—from dropping out of high school to earning a doctorate—and how personal experience shapes his advocacy. We dive deep into the topics of systemic injustice, education, faith, and what it truly means to be present with those on the margins. What We Discuss: How Dr. Lester's personal journey fuels his mission The impact of educational redlining and systemic inequality How faith, mentors, and community shaped his life What churches and individuals can do to respond to injustice How to build proximity and empathy across differences Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] Dr. Lester reflects on living in gratitude and grief at once [00:05:00] The dismantling of Black history and language in public discourse [00:10:00] How policy and redlining impacted Dr. Lester's childhood neighborhood [00:15:00] A teacher named Ms. West sees his potential and changes his life [00:23:00] Mr. Moore tells Dr. Lester, “One day you'll be a leader” [00:31:00] His grandmother and the spiritual foundation of faith in a historic Black church [00:36:00] A night in jail becomes a turning point in his faith journey [00:46:00] What the church is missing—and what it could become [00:54:00] How we can all build relationships across differences Featured Quotes: “Sometimes people have to borrow your courage.” – Dr. Terence Lester “Distance is the enemy of belonging.” – Dr. Terence Lester “You never know how far I've traveled to be here—and I'm not talking about geography.” – Dr. Terence Lester “If you preach from your life's text, you'll never run out of material.” – Dr. Lester, quoting his Bible professor Resources Mentioned: Love Beyond Walls: www.lovebeyondwalls.org From Dropout to Doctorate: www.ivpress.com/from-dropout-to-doctorate Dr. Lester on IG: www.instagram.com/imterencelester Dr. Lester's website: terencelester.com

Not Right. Not Left. Not Crazy. Just Real Talk About Politics and People. 43% of Us Aren't Partisan Left or Right. This Episode Is for You. Reflecting on what it means to be politically independent in a time of increasing polarization. Drawing on personal stories and hot-button issues like Israel/Palestine, redistricting, and public safety, host Corey Nathan makes a compelling case for the 43% of Americans who don't fully align with the far right or progressive left—and offers guidance on how we can still talk to each other with grace and clarity. What Is Discussed: The 3 main categories of political identity in America Why a plurality of us fall into a misunderstood, complex “middle” How to approach political conversations without labeling What really motivates voters—and why economic messaging matters Practical ways to connect across divides without compromising your values Episode Highlights: [00:02:00] Defining the “three buckets”: partisan right, left, and the independent middle [00:06:30] Mislabeling in political debates – a story about Israel and being misunderstood [00:12:00] How to hold multiple truths in the Israel/Palestine conflict [00:15:00] On crime, Trump, and false binaries [00:19:30] Redistricting in Texas—and why legal doesn't mean ethical [00:23:00] Why cost of living, not slogans, will decide 2026 & 2028 elections [00:27:00] Do's & don'ts for meaningful political conversations [00:33:00] Learning from mistakes and leading with respect Featured Quotes:

Exposing the New Apostolic Reformation's anti-democratic Seven Mountain Mandate and its profound impact on Christian nationalism, urging a return to interreligious dialogue and Jesus' core teachings to rehumanize faith and defend liberal democracy - we're joined by Dr. Matthew D. Taylor to discuss all this and more. Dr. Matthew D. Taylor is a leading scholar and practitioner in interfaith dialogue and a fierce advocate for pluralism in American society who holds a Ph.D. in Theological and Religious Studies with a focus on comparative religion and modern radical movements within both Christianity and Islam. He currently serves at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies in Baltimore, where he works to dismantle antisemitism, Islamophobia, and Christian nationalism. Together, Corey and Matt explore the evolution of evangelicalism, the rise of Christian nationalism, the dangerous theology of the New Apostolic Reformation, and the crucial role of pluralistic democracy in a divided America. What We Discuss: Why Dr. Taylor left evangelicalism and what drew him to interfaith dialogue The alarming growth and influence of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) How NAR theology is shaping U.S. politics and threatening democracy The distinction between liberal and illiberal democracy How to rehumanize political and religious discourse in polarized environments What Christians can do to confront authoritarianism from within their own communities Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] Dr. Taylor's evangelical roots and why he left the movement [00:05:00] From aspiring missionary to interfaith scholar: Matt's pivotal moment in Turkey [00:15:00] Understanding spiritual manipulation in evangelical circles [00:25:00] Introducing the New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountain Mandate [00:37:00] How Christian nationalism is reshaping America's political landscape [00:45:00] Trump, prophecy, and the theological foundations of MAGA [00:54:00] What liberal democracy means—and why it's at risk in the U.S. [01:03:00] A call for Christians to speak theologically against authoritarianism Featured Quotes: "If the propaganda is theological, the response has to be theological." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor "We need to improve the quality of our disagreements." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor "Right now, the propaganda holding MAGA together is theological—and Christians have a responsibility to speak into that." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor "Jesus didn't come to empower Christians to take power over others—he came to teach us to lay it down." — Dr. Matthew D. Taylor Resources Mentioned: Dr. Taylor's book, The Violent Take It by Force: icjs.org/the-violent-take-it-by-force Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies: icjs.org Matthew D. Taylor on Substack: substack.com/@matthewdtaylor

Principles, Polarization, and the Perils of Partisan Shaming. Let's dive into the heated “Redistricting Wars” in Texas, California, and other states. Using David French's framework of “Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise?”, Corey examines the legal, moral, and strategic angles of mid-decade redistricting. From explaining the political strategies behind Texas's proposed map changes to defending California's independent redistricting commissions, Corey makes the case for more competitive, purple districts. He also shares a candid and sometimes heated social media exchange about whether sticking to democratic principles is the right approach when political opponents “fight dirty.” *CORRECTION: Corey incorrectly referred to a conversation with Dr. Matthew D. Taylor. Corey incorrectly stated his first name as Michael instead of Matthew. What Is Discussed: Why Texas's mid-decade redistricting is technically legal but ethically questionable How California's independent commissions foster competitive districts The strategic risks of over-gerrymandering The dangers of toxic partisanship and abandoning core principles Why persuasion works better than shaming in political discourse Episode highlights: [00:02:00] Applying the “legal, ethical, wise” framework to Texas's actions [00:04:00] Why breaking redistricting norms is dangerous [00:07:00] Why Corey doubts Texas will gain five seats through gerrymandering [00:08:00] California's purple districts and independent commissions [00:12:00] Polling on overturning California's commission system [00:14:00] A revealing online exchange about principles vs. partisanship [00:21:00] The problem with labeling all Trump voters as enemies of democracy [00:27:00] Sticking to nonviolent, principled engagement during political urgency [00:33:00] Why respectful persuasion beats moral grandstanding Featured quotes: “Is it legal? Is it ethical? Is it wise? That's how I'm looking at this whole thing.” “We need more purple districts—places where voters have to talk to each other, not just live in partisan silos.” “We don't abandon our principles when it's convenient or when we think it's urgent.” “If your approach is to shame people into agreeing with you, you're not persuading anyone—you're pushing them away.” Resources mentioned: Reuters article on Texas redistricting fight: www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-led-texas-redistricting-gambit-ignites-national-arms-race-control-congress-2025-08-05/ Politicology with Ron Steslow and Mike Madrid: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cartographic-warfare-the-weekly/id1514968525?i=1000721241146

What happened between the election of the first black president in 2008 and the reelection of Donald Trump in 2024 that's led to "the age of certainty and the demise of discourse"? Well, as the brilliant writer Thomas Chatterton Williams recounts in his new book, there was the SUMMER OF OUR DISCONTENT. In this episode, we get to sit down with Thomas—staff writer at The Atlantic and also author of Losing My Cool and Self-Portrait in Black and White. We explore race, identity, cancel culture, and the importance of preserving liberal values in a polarized society. What We Discuss: How Thomas's biracial upbringing shapes his worldview The story behind the “Letter on Justice and Open Debate” in Harper's What happened with the Poetry Foundation and cancel culture Why “moral clarity” can be dangerous when journalism becomes activism How 2020's protests shaped national politics and the rise of MAGA Episode Highlights: [00:01:00] Thomas shares the story of his parents' interracial marriage [00:07:00] Growing up in a household full of debate and thick skin [00:09:00] Drafting and publishing the Harper's letter and its backlash [00:13:00] The Poetry Foundation controversy and institutional capture [00:25:00] Why “moral clarity” fails when we don't agree on morality [00:39:00] The link between 2020 protests and January 6th [00:45:00] Can Democrats win the center—and what candidates can break through? [00:48:00] The toxic effects of social media on how we see each other Featured Quotes: "You can't really have social justice without tolerance for viewpoint diversity." – Thomas Chatterton Williams "No one agrees on what's morally clear. That's why objectivity still matters." – Thomas Chatterton Williams "People don't talk that way in person. Social media strips us of our ability to imagine someone's humanity." – Corey Nathan Resources Mentioned: The Summer of Our Discontent by Thomas Chatterton Williams: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704632/summer-of-our-discontent-by-thomas-chatterton-williams/ Harper's Letter: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ Thomas's work at The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/thomas-chatterton-williams/ Thomas on IG: www.instagram.com/chattertonwilliams Thomas on Twitter: x.com/thomaschattwill