Podcasts about title nine

In episode #152 of

As a college basketball player, Missy Park was lucky to grow up during the early era of Title IX, the 1972 law that created new opportunities for young women in sports. But in the years before Lululemon and Athleta, activewear for women was either ill-fitting or non-existent. So in 1989—with little experience in apparel or retail—Missy launched a female version of Nike. She sent out a mail-order catalog of running shorts, tights, and (at the last minute) sports bras, naming her company for the law that had opened doors for her to compete. Over the years, Title Nine kept "hitting singles," eventually growing into a $100 million business without ever taking outside investment. Today, Missy remains the sole owner.This episode was produced by J.C. Howard with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research by Claire Murashima.You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram, and email us at hibt@id.wondery.com. Sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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INTRO 1: Morgan Stanley & Parametric just created a new way to invest in women's sports - literally.In episode #136 of

In episode #134 of

Maine's current political landscape is under fire as Governor Mills and The Maine Principal association defy federal law. Join us for a candid discussion, we explore how state leadership is failing to represent the interests of its citizens in the ongoing debate about transgender athletes in women's sports and in doing so it is also failing to protect women in sports and even jeopardizing the transgender athlete as well.• Introduction to the struggles facing Maine • Family dinner inspiration leading to the political discourse • Discussion about the major implications of Title IX and fairness • Examination of transgender athlete participation and public reactions • Analysis of the Maine Principals Association's conflicting stance • Insights into parental concerns for children in sports • Reflection on media coverage of transgender sports issues • Challenges presented by federal funding laws and state compliance • Critique of Governor Mills and her leadership decisions • Closing thoughts on what Maine needs moving forwardIf you found value in today's show please return the favor and leave a positive review and share it with someone important to you! https://www.sharethestrugglepodcast.com/reviews/new/Find all you need to know about the show https://www.sharethestrugglepodcast.com/Official Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100077724159859Join the 2% of Americans that Buy American and support American Together we can bring back American Manufacturing https://www.loudproudamerican.shop/Loud Proud American Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LoudproudamericanLoud Proud American Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/loud_proud_american/Loud Proud American TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@loud_proud_americanLoud Proud American YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmYQtOt6KVURuySWYQ2GWtwThank you for Supporting My American Dream!

Here are 3 big things you need to know—   One — President Trump says a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin was highly productive.  The President says both men agreed that the Russia-Ukraine war needs to come to an end.  Trump says the two will work closely together on negotiations including visiting each other's nations at some point.    Two ---- The Trump administration is rescinding the Biden Adminisration's rules related to N-I-L revenue-sharing payments to male and female college athletes. Just before Biden left office, the Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights said schools could be in violation of Title Nine if they didn't hand out revenue-sharing payments proportionately to men's and women's sports.  Now schools can distribute money to the sports they believe have the most value.    And number three —   Trinity Health Ann Arbor says an anonymous donor has given the hospital ten-million-dollars for a neurosciences institute. Construction on an expansion will begin this year and should be completed in the spring of 2026. The expansion will include new outpatient dementia and Alzheimer's care.

Cassie Abel is the founder and CEO of Wild Rye, a brand that celebrates the duality of athletes with gear for both snow and mountain biking. In this podcast, we dive into the history of the brand as she launched with a co-founder, looked for signals that they were on the right track, and rode the exhausting rollercoaster of manufacturing, marketing and everything in between as the brand experienced growth. Find out how a Craiglist post became an inflection point for the brand - and where the brand is headed next! Show Notes: Wild Rye: https://wild-rye.com/ Cassie Abel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassie-abel-5853787/ Women-Led Wednesday: https://womenledwednesday.com/ How I Built This - Sara Blakely: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spanx-sara-blakely/id1150510297?i=1000396023160 How I Built This - Whitney Wolfe: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bumble-whitney-wolfe-2017/id1150510297?i=1000436036734 Tory Burch Foundation: https://www.toryburchfoundation.org/ Title Nine: https://www.titlenine.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Salomon QST Skis: https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/sports/alpine-skiing/skis/freeride.html Eliot Jackson - "Ode To LA": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDthZQI7G4c Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

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Senators Deb Fischer and Pete Ricketts are cosponsors of legislation to overturn a U.S. Department of Education rule extending Title Nine protections to include gender identity. The Congressional Review Act allows Congress the ability to overrule federal regulations from government agencies by passing a joint resolution. The resolution can be vetoed by the president and would need a two-thirds majority of the House and Senate to override the veto.

Senators Deb Fischer and Pete Ricketts are cosponsors of legislation to overturn a U.S. Department of Education rule extending Title Nine protections to include gender identity. The Congressional Review Act allows Congress the ability to overrule federal regulations from government agencies by passing a joint resolution. The resolution can be vetoed by the president and would need a two-thirds majority of the House and Senate to override the veto.

Louisiana sex offenders could face surgical castration...California school board president faces recall for supporting parental notification...and two University of Texas professors suing President Biden over expansion of Title Nine. 

Ed speaks with Missy Park, Founder and CEO of Title Nine, a women's athleisure brand. They discuss how her experience as a collegiate athlete led her to start her company, the benefits and drawbacks of bootstrapping, and why achieving a work life/balance is not all it's cracked up to be. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In episode #88 of

Students sometimes enjoy cuddling, but innocent acts can sometimes lead to serious Title IX cases. These situations are more common than you might expect. Join Susan and Kristina in this episode of Real Talk as they discuss common pitfalls, focusing on important aspects like communication, conversation, and consent. Tune in for essential insights, and be sure to share this information with your students.   LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://studentdefense.kjk.com/   TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We are full time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations.   Susan Stone: Nice to see you on this dreary, rainy day.    Kristina Supler: Indeed, it is.    Susan Stone: It is. Well, we're going to talk about something that's actually good to do on a rainy day.    Kristina Supler: Ooh, tell me more. What could that be?    Susan Stone: Cuddling.    Kristina Supler: Who doesn't love cuddling?    Susan Stone: My gosh. You know what? I'm mourning the fact that my youngest is about to go to college. And we talked about this on prior podcasts, but do you remember we used to have younger kids. But back in the day.    Kristina Supler: My kids love to CUDDLE Yeah,    Susan Stone: There's nothing like that. Cuddling up a little kid, especially on a rainy morning.   Susan Stone: Couldn't agree more.   Susan Stone: I love it.    Kristina Supler: Well, why are you talking about cuddling today, Susan? Do I go with this?   Susan Stone: Well, we're going to get there because, as you know, nobody sees us and things until something goes wrong. And what is that saying? Everything's fine till somebody gets poked in the eye. Do you remember that thing?    Kristina Supler: Yes.    Susan Stone: Well, we're going to talk about cuddling going wrong. But first, let's just talk about why do we cuddle? I mean, I was doing a little research on cuddling and did you know that cuddling produces oxytocin and basically makes you feel good and safe?   Kristina Supler: Well, that's interesting because I suppose and you know, you're the special ed wiz, if you will, is it could one argue that cuddling is kind of like a form of O.T. in a way, occupational therapy or stimulating you in some way?    Susan Stone: Well, we know it improves sleep. There are some studies out there that says it actually boosts the immune system and it, believe it or not, lowers blood pressure. That's crazy, isn't it?    Kristina Supler: Now that I didn't see that one coming, I'm just thinking about like some of our little kids and people with sensitivities to touch and touch can be a good thing. And also maybe something that can be triggering.    Susan Stone: Yeah, exactly. Well, I would say that in early childhood, cuddling definitely leads to attachment parenting. You really form bonds.   Kristina Supler: Well, that like when you first have your baby and they want to put the baby on your chest for the. What does that kangaroo care? What was it called?   Susan Stone:  I think it's kangaroo care. It's been a minute   Kristina Supler: and they have had a baby.    Susan Stone: Yeah, but I think your point is well taken that some children actually are averse to touch, you know, like that feeling. But most people do. And a little simple hug or cuddle is wonderful for parents. And I'm a big fan of parents being physically affectionate with children. But.   Kristina Supler: but there's always a but    Susan Stone: but we're not here to talk about parents snuggling their babies,    Kristina Supler: I think as part of our podcast. It's funny, every episode there's sort of a theme of, in reality, things that are nice. Most of the time innocent sure and then put them on a college campus and the title nine world. And of course, there's always room for things to go wrong. So are we talking about cuddling in the context of Title Nine today?    Susan Stone: We are. Because one person's innocent, platonic, asexual cuddling can be another person's prelude to a hookup.   Kristina Supler: Indeed, indeed. And that actually makes me think we've had over the years we've had quite a few cases that are sort of rooted in, I don't know, cuddling going wrong, if you will, though I think it probably depends on who you ask. Right?   Susan Stone: Well, I just learned that there is a definitional difference between cuddling and snuggling.    Kristina Supler: Now this is totally new to me.Tell me more. I'm very interested.    Susan Stone: Okay. I read by Rabbi Google. You know, the go to source of all things.    Kristina Supler: When you're done, I'm going to tell you something that I just came across on Rabbi Google.    Susan Stone: Okay, good. So cuddling his arms around someone and snuggling is rubbing up and wiggling against a person.    Kristina Supler: Okay, that makes sense.   Susan Stone: It does?   Kristina Supler: Yeah.    Susan Stone: How do you think it makes sense? Supler    Kristina Supler: Because snuggling. It makes me think about, like, getting cozy and, like, under a blanket. And you're sort of, I don't know, inching up and just, like, being warm. And as I'm saying this, I'm realizing I don't even I don't know, it just makes sense to me that one's different.   Susan Stone: Well, so maybe we're not here really to talk about cuddling. Maybe we're here to talk about snuggling when that goes wrong,    Kristina Supler: Perhaps. But you reminded me, actually, not too long ago, I saw this headline about how in Manhattan, because of course, you can find anything in Manhattan, there are actually    Susan Stone: I love the Big Apple    Kristina Supler: professional cuddling services where people charge $150 an hour to cuddle in a platonic way because people are seeking out like that touch therapy thing.   Which made me think of the OT question I asked you earlier. How about that though? Truly, anything you want can be found in New York.    Susan Stone: It can be. But let's go back. And that's interesting. It may be kind of creepy. I don't know how I feel about it, but let's go back to college, because in college there are people who like to have what they call cuddle buddies.   Kristina Supler: Sure. And I think that from the perspective of Title nine, how can things go wrong? I mean, it's really in essence, any sort of touching or physical contact, if it's unwelcome, could perhaps give rise to a claim for sexual harassment.   Susan Stone: So let's set the stage for our listeners. It's late. You've already gone out. The bars have closed.So it's what, 2 a.m.    Kristina Supler: sure. I guess it depends what state you're in, but I think two AMs a reasonable time.    Susan Stone: Okay. And you know, nothing good happens at 2 a.m..    Kristina Supler: Nothing.    Susan Stone: Nothing. So it's 2 a.m. and you decide to watch a little Netflix and chill for your evening out. Maybe you've had a beer or two or ten and you decide to cuddle and accidentally you might even fall asleep and or not. And the cuddling to one person, they're tired. They want to go to sleep, but to the other person they get aroused, duu duu dun   Kristina Supler: Sure. I mean, I think one could argue that that is a natural consequence of cuddling    Susan Stone: and a hand might wander.    Kristina Supler: It's possible,    Susan Stone: and a hand might wander without consent.    Kristina Supler: Indeed.    Susan Stone: And there's your title nine.    Kristina Supler: Yeah. I mean, the whole at the heart of the Title nine analysis was the issue of unwelcomeness. And then also, you know, a conversation. It makes me think Conversations we often have with our students of any age is sort of impact versus intent, you know? But I didn't mean for anything, you know, to be upsetting or offensive, but it was received that way by someone else. And so what do you do with that? And that's really, in essence, what all of our Title nine cases are about, cause I don't think anyone ever says, I intentionally did X, Y, Z to hurt someone. It's always I didn't mean to or something was misunderstood or misconstrued. And then you have the, you know, the consequences of whatever the circumstance was. And that's often what we're navigating through is sort of the the gray.    Susan Stone: Well, because the definition of content send can be words or actions. And so what is an action? I thought we were cuddling. I thought we were getting closer. I thought you also were romantically interested in me. And so I thought it was a natural move on my part to move my hand. And the other person's thinking, wait, you didn't even talk to me? But that's not the definition of consent. It's words or actions. And I think that's where the confusion comes from.    Kristina Supler: Well, and I'm going to say this, that, you know, sort of a prevailing viewpoint might be that, well, come on, please. Everyone knows that cuddling is just sort of a gateway to a hookup. How would you respond to that?    Susan Stone: I don't even think that's true because as we started our whole podcast, parents cuddle children, but as we have worked our way through this issue, I think the confusion comes from the difference between cuddling and snuggling. And I think that college students don't spend enough time as they're creating these cuddle buddies to determine, is it truly platonic?   How do you know that you might feel platonic, and the other person might actually have feelings, and the cuddling or snuggling enhances those feelings.    Kristina Supler: So, I hear you. But then I guess let me ask you this. It sorts of circles back to what I very in artfully tried to define before the difference between cuddling and snuggling. If you're snuggling.How would you define the two? Because if you're saying one is more, it sounds like you're saying one is okay and one can be problematic. I mean, you try to define the difference.    Susan Stone: Well, I like the definition I gave you. And first of all, both are okay as long as everybody's on the same page.   Kristina Supler: Right. Consent.    Susan Stone: Consent. It always comes down to consent. I don't think that snuggling is appropriate without conversation.    Kristina Supler: Yeah,    Susan Stone: and it's certainly not appropriate. And many, many contexts. It is, to me, a boundary violation to rub your body against someone without a conversation.    Kristina Supler: Agree. Agree. There needs to be a conversation. And you know, that makes me think as well that, you know, certainly, as you've pointed out correctly, most school policies indicates consent and again in Title nine world requires it can be given through words or actions. But I think, you know, from a let's put a lawyer head on from a best practices perspective, we really do encourage all of our students. And when we talk, we sort of make the point that the safest way forward is to have a clear, explicit conversation. Are you okay if we, you know, fill in the blank, whatever it is, to just have a clear understanding of what the boundary is, what a person is okay with, and perhaps not okay with.   Susan Stone: Let's get a little embarrassing here, can we?    Kristina Supler: Sure.    Susan Stone: Sometimes the body does what the body wants to do, even if your mind says something different.    Kristina Supler: You talk about involuntary   Susan Stone: erections.    Kristina Supler: Sure.    Susan Stone: Okay. Now I do not have a penis. I am a female. You know. The penis is going to do what the penis wants to do. Supler.    Kristina Supler: Tell me more.Where are we going with this?    Susan Stone: I can envision a scenario where there is cuddling or snuggling and a male gets a hard on. It can happen easily.    Kristina Supler: It could happen.    Susan Stone: And that's really embarrassing. What? What should the guy do? I feel like I'm Howard Stern talking about this. Really? Well, what should happen?   Kristina Supler: I mean, it can be embarrassing for the male.It could be whoever is the other person participating in the    Susan Stone: male or female    Kristina Supler: Male or female. It can make that person. They might like it, but also can make them feel really, really uncomfortable. And then what? What do you do?    Susan Stone: I don't know. Should they get. Should the person with the erection just get out of bed and go into the bathroom? I don't know.    Kristina Supler: I don't know either. And I feel like really delve into this topic. We need the male perspective because we're both females, but.    Susan Stone: Well, no, I. I'm married. Married? We get this.    Kristina Supler: Yeah,   Susan Stone: we both have raised sons.    Kristina Supler: So, the question is    Susan Stone: not that I've talked about this with my son. Everyone out there, I want to clarify. I have never discussed this topic with my child.    Kristina Supler: So, the question is, could that be a title nine violation?    Susan Stone: Yeah, it could be in today's crazy world. But how unfair is that?    Kristina Supler: I totally agree. I totally agree. And I think that, you know, it sort of gets back to this issue of the importance of students having    Susan Stone: self-awareness,    Kristina Supler: self-awareness, but also the ability to and we talk about this all the time, the ability to have difficult conversations is like, this is awkward. This would be totally awkward to talk about with someone you don't even really know that well, but like, Hey, I don't like that I'm going to go. Or I mean, because I think the worst way to handle it is everyone's awkward and uncomfortable and there's no conversation. And then for days, the interaction is being dissected and analyzed and then outside voices sort of filter, and the narrative gets rewritten about what happens.   Susan Stone: I'm going to challenge you on something,    Kristina Supler: okay? Please do.   Susan Stone: You're a big fan. As am I, on conversation.   Kristina Supler: I am. I'm a talker. You're a talker.    Susan Stone: But you know what? Some things you need a little self-awareness. I don't think. And everyone, I would love for you to respond. Send us your comments. I want to know what you think out there. But if you're really into someone and you secretly like them, can you platonically cuddle? I put that out there. I say, No,    Kristina Supler: I don't think you can either. That's actually I agree. I don't think you can. I think it's inevitable where where it's going to end up. But are you. So let me ask you.   Susan Stone: So cuddle Without talking to the person and saying, hey, maybe this is where the conversation comes in.I don't think I can do that. I don't think I can get in bed with you in. And let's face it, how big are college beds?    Kristina Supler: I mean, there aren't, like, extra long singles twins, right? Yeah. I remember going to bed with me and. And buying extra long sheets because, like, that's what you needed for some reason.    Susan Stone: Yeah. You still need those extra-long sheets. But what I'm saying is I don't see how someone can platonically Cuddle. And if you're male, not get erect. Or how about this? A woman? We females get aroused too.    Kristina Supler: I've been told    Susan Stone: I've been told. I heard from a friend. You know, that's not a natural place to put yourself if you want to remain platonic.So I say a little self-awareness goes a long way.    Kristina Supler: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think also, though, there's you.   Susan Stone: What do you mean? You don't know. That's ridiculous. You do know if you like, someone don't hop in the old bed with them without thinking that, you know, the juices are going to flow.    Kristina Supler: How about this? Cuddle or no cuddle? You're alone with someone at 2:00 in the morning watching TV. Like, come on. I mean, I think that, too. It could sort of be a situation where if we're really talking about self-awareness, I don't think it's limited to cuddling. I think it should be, you know, sort of broad into just being mindful of the situations in which we find ourselves. Can you if you have a crush on someone and you just want to watch, I don't know, a show together on Netflix at 2:00 in the morning, You know, one could argue that that's sort of also a recipe to test limits and see where things go.   Susan Stone: Drunk or not drunk?   Kristina Supler: Well, let's say both. Right. Because, I mean, either way, alcohol, we've had plenty of cases that are, you know, cuddling, touching, gone wrong with no alcohol involved. I mean, it's not let's face it, alcohol is involved in many, if not most of our cases, but certainly not all. Certainly not all.    Susan Stone: You know what else could happen? As I'm thinking about this, you could be thinking that you really are just friends. But sometimes you awake the dragon.    Kristina Supler: I mean, I just    Susan Stone: Feelings happen.   Kristina Supler: Feelings do happen. But there's a difference between feelings happening. And then, like, I don't know, I just struggle with the idea of and maybe I'm being to I don't know, traditional in my views, but like platonic cuddling between a male and a female at 2:00 in the morning, I don't know that it's possible.I really don't.    Susan Stone: Yeah, I'm with you. And I also wonder about those New York Cutlers. Do they really just cuddle?    Kristina Supler: Well, I mean, according to the news article, yes, but I mean, I'm with you and that I'm very circumspect. And then he also does wonder about germs and whatnot. But supposedly there's like good sanitation measures in places.    Susan Stone: We're getting so far off my gosh, I'm embarrassed for ourselves. But look, there is a lot of health benefits to cuddling and you can feel lonely in college and there's nothing wrong when the terms are clear. Yes, I will follow Suplers ideas, conversations, key. It can be a really nice way of connecting, forging bonds, getting good sleep, lowering your blood pressure and boosting your immunity. As long as everybody stays on the same page. I just worry for those little accidental erections and things that might go bump in the night accidentally.    Kristina Supler: Accidental erections. Okay, well, hopefully we've given our listeners some food for thought today. This is just sort of a fun and lighthearted discussion. But I mean, in all seriousness, we do see plenty of matters that, you know, involve components of cuddling and miscommunication.   Susan Stone: Yeah, and it's not funny when you have a Title nine case. It's embarrassing. our clients who come into our office or we zoom in with their mortified. It's awful. It's just awful.   Kristina Supler: It's awful for everyone involved and    Susan Stone: Also awful for the recipient. Who thinks that way.    Kristina Supler: I was going to say it's awful as well for the person who maybe dozed off and then they wake up and are like, Whoa, what's going on? So, you know, I mean, again, I think that, you know,    Susan Stone: No one wins    Kristina Supler: No One wins    Susan Stone: Or everyone wins, depending on what happens. Right.    Kristina Supler: Well, should colleges really be in the mix of passing through these scenarios? I'm not sure about that one. But under the regs, under the current title nine regulations are policies. They are. And so it is an issue that Title nine offices across the country are navigating.And so, you know, bottom line, parents out there, listeners, these two are topics to, you know, put on your students radar.    Susan Stone: Talk about cuddling versus snuggling. Stay connected if you would like. We'd love to hear from you and see what you think. And let's keep the conversation going.    Kristina Supler: Until next time. Thanks for listening to Real Talk with Susan and Kristina. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review so other people can find the content we share here. You can follow us on Instagram. Just search our handle @stonesupler and for more resources, visit us online at https://studentdefense.kjk.com/   Thank you so much for being a part of our real talk community. We'll see you next time.  

What's it like being a Jewish student at Harvard today? With us to tell their firsthand accounts are Nitsan Machlis, Co-Chair of the Harvard Kennedy School Jewish Caucus, and Shabbos Kestenbaum, a Harvard Divinity school student who is part of a group that sued the university–alleging that they failed to address “severe and pervasive” campus antisemitism.  AJC's State of Antisemitism in America 2023 Report found that 24% of current or recent college students say they felt uncomfortable or unsafe at a campus event because they're Jewish. Listen in to hear from Machlis and Kestenbaum on how Harvard's administration has made Jewish students feel unwelcome and unsupported – and what they're doing to fix it. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode Lineup:  (0:40) Nitsan Machlis, Shabbos Kestenbaum Show Notes: Listen – People of the Pod on the Israel-Hamas War: The Fallout from the University Presidents Congressional Hearing: What Does it Mean for Jewish Students? When Antisemites Target Local Businesses: How Communities Are Uniting in Response How A 10/7 Survivor is Confronting Anti-Israel Activists on College Campuses Tal Shimony Survived the Hamas Attack on the Nova Music Festival: Hear Her Story of Courage, Resilience, and Remembrance More Analysis and Resources:   What is Students for Justice in Palestine, the Hamas-supporting Anti-Israel Group Being Banned on College Campuses? Confronting Campus Antisemitism: An Action Plan for University Students AJC Campus Library Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Transcript of Interview with Nitsan Machlis and Shabbos Kestenbaum: Manya Brachear Pashman:   Since the October 7 terror attack on Israel by Hamas, it has become increasingly difficult for Jewish students to feel safe on American college campuses. AJC's state of antisemitism and America 2023 report found that 24% of current or recent college students say they felt uncomfortable or unsafe at a campus event because they're Jewish. This is even true at one of the world's top Ivy League schools. Some might even say, especially true at Harvard University.  This week, the co-chair of a task force set up by Harvard to combat anti semitism resigned. The second such departure after Rabbi David Wolpe resigned from an anti semitism Advisory Committee. He cited former Harvard President Claudine Gay's congressional testimony and events on campus, which reinforced the idea that he could not make the sort of difference he had hoped. The latest event on campus: a blatantly antisemitic cartoon circulated on Instagram by pro Palestinian student groups.  Here to give us some perspective on the ground are Harvard Divinity student Shabbos Kestenbaum  and head of the Harvard Kennedy School Jewish Caucus, Nitsan Machlis.  Shabbos, Nitsan, welcome to People of the Pod. Nitsan Machlis:   Thank you. Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Thank you. Good to be here. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So as I mentioned on Sunday, Professor Raphaela Sadoon resigned from her role on the University Task Force to Combat Antisemitism. Any idea why?  Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Sure. So when President Garber put out that announcement, it was definitely a surprise to many of us. The official reason was she wanted to focus on her administrative and academic responsibilities as a professor at the business school. But we know that that's not true. The very next day, The Harvard Crimson wrote an article detailing from members on the antisemitism Task Force, that she was incredibly frustrated with the slow pace, with the bureaucracy. And more fundamentally, she had asked Harvard to commit themselves to actually applying the recommendations that the taskforce would issue. And Harvard was not willing to do that. And I think that speaks volumes, again, about their priorities and how serious they are about combating antisemitism, that they wouldn't even commit themselves to listening to the advice of people that they themselves appointed.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   So what are some of those basic obvious objectives that you think the task force–what are your expectations for this task force? Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Well, my expectations for the task force is nothing. I mean, the first one was so remarkably useless. It was disbanded after, what 40 days. And this one, I'll give it, let's say 100 days tops. But in terms of what I would want to see, and what Jewish students have been asking for for years, is I'll give you an example. When all incoming students come into Harvard, they take mandatory Title Nine training, and it tells them that things like fat phobia, like sizeism, like the wrong gender pronouns are forms of abuse, and they can be disciplinary, if someone were to engage in them.  Why is antisemitism not included in that type of mandatory training? And why is it that we need the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust for Harvard to wake up to that reality? So that's number one.  Number two, we need to see the fair enforcement of the school code of conduct and the fair enforcement of school policies. If you're a student engaged in antisemitism, the way that many of them are at the moment, you will be disciplined in the same way you would be and you have been, because Harvard has a track record of doing this, if you were engaged in racism, or sexism, or homophobia. But why the double standard when it comes to Jews? And then more fundamentally, we need to really restructure and reconsider DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives on campus that have never included Jewish people. Not once. These are just three basic recommendations off the top of my head that we've been saying for so, so long.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   It seems like students and faculty are simply oblivious to just how vulnerable Jewish students are feeling. Case in point the cartoon last week showing a hand marked with a star of David and $1 sign holding nooses around the necks of a black man and an Arab. Can you share with our listeners, what kinds of explanations, apologies or consequences that you've heard about associated with that cartoon?  Nitsan Machlis:   That cartoon was really upsetting on a personal level. I'll share maybe attuned with the general theme here that I personally have never felt threatened on campus. I have friends who have had very bad experiences. I think antisemitism at an institutional level definitely exists.  But I think that cartoon for me was the first time that I really felt like, wow, this is very upsetting. And this is something that could hurt me. I haven't had conversations with students about the cartoon. And I was actually surprised how many students were unaware that that cartoon had, in fact, been circulating.  And many times I found that in conversations I'll have with friends, they will be very upset, but they didn't even know it was happening. So I will hear about this first from my Israeli circles or from my Jewish circles. But many students are really unaware the extent these images are circulating on campus. So I don't know if that directly answers the question of reactions.  But for me, there's been this big question of how do people not know this is happening? And how can I be so upset for several days over this and my classmates are not even aware. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Shabbos you, as you were saying, you're one of six students who has sued the university for not adequately protecting Jewish students. In fact, you personally encountered antisemitism. Can you share that experience with our listeners? Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Sure. So unfortunately, I haven't just encountered it on a one off, but it's been pervasive and it's been consistent. But one particular example that stands out was the very first day of the spring semester here at Harvard. I was walking through Harvard Yard and I noticed that every single poster that called attention to kidnapped Jewish babies was vandalized and not just vandalized, but with horrific horrific antisemitism, saying that Jews are best friends with Jeffrey Epstein, that they're responsible for 9/11.  And in fact, on Kfir Bibas, who's the one year old Jewish child, someone had written his head is still on, where's the evidence? So I, of course, reported that immediately, no action was taken. It was only after CNN and Fox News had covered the story that Harvard retroactively issue a statement.  But anyways, the next morning, I get a unprompted unsolicited email from a current Harvard employee who asked me to meet him in a secluded underpass to debate whether Jews were involved in 9/11. I, of course, reported that.  And then later that night, he posted a video on his social media waving a machete with a picture of my face, saying that he wants to fight and he has some master plan. And as I said, I recorded all of this, I went through all the proper channels, whether it was DEI, whether it was the police, whether it was the Office of Student Life. To this day, February 27, he is still employed at Harvard. In fact, a friend of mine told me he saw him walking through Harvard Yard just a couple of days ago. It is inconceivable that any other minority group would be treated the way that Harvard treats its Jewish student body. And that's what makes this lawsuit, unfortunately, so necessary. Manya Brachear Pashman:   That sounds absolutely horrifying and terrifying for you. I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with that. And that's on social media. Have you also encountered people on campus? Have you had personal encounters as well? Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I'll just tell you the most recent incident that happened. There is a forum for Harvard students, specifically Harvard Divinity School students, and it's really just become a forum in the last couple of months to bash the Jewish state—It's genocidal, it's apartheid. And someone had posted a couple of days ago that they were going to organize an event demanding lawmakers pass a ceasefire resolution.  So I responded and this is the first time I was really involved in this forum for months, I responded saying wouldn't it make more sense to ask Hamas to release all the Jewish babies that they kidnapped and to surrender and end the war and I was kicked out of the forum.  So there was not space for mainstream Jewish viewpoints unless that Jewish viewpoint is anti-Zionist. Harvard does not value freedom of speech, the free exchange of ideas or intellectual discourse. what it values is a one narrative, one ideology, and the moment you are counter to that you are ostracized, you are bullied and you're isolated. Manya Brachear Pashman:  Nitsan, have you encountered the same resistance to your point of view? Have you been reluctant to share that you're Jewish or Israeli? Nitsan Machlis: I have felt for the first time, uncomfortable with how I share my identity. And whenever I speak in class, either on Israel or my Jewish identity, I think twice about it. And I have friends who have had very difficult experiences in classrooms and have really been caught off guard, that constant feeling that you have to be on guard because you don't know what will be said and how he will reply to it. It's very exhausting.  But again, what I want to emphasize here is that this isn't the case for everyone. On a personal level, I haven't felt unsafe on a day to day basis, and I have had overwhelmingly positive experiences with my peers in the classroom. At the same time, there's a lot of very upsetting behavior that's happening, like the cartoon we just discussed. But the reason I think it's important to also discuss these stories is because I think that that feeling of isolation can be very dangerous.  So we need to separate fighting against all the awful things that are happening, but also listening to students who have had positive experiences with their peers who have stepped forward and supported them in this time. I think both from an Israeli and a Jewish perspective, the worst thing that can happen is for us to feel completely isolated from our surroundings. Manya Brachear Pashman:  Nitsan, you are not part of this lawsuit. You have not been targeted in the same way. How are you trying to make a difference and change the climate there?   Nitsan Machlis: I will say that my approach has been to first of all work with the administration. And I very much believe in this. I think there is value to challenging the institution from the outside, especially when they have disappointed us on so many levels. But as the chair of the Jewish caucus in the Harvard Kennedy School, we have tried with the other co chairs, to work together with administration and specifically with DEI offices. For me this is one of the most important asks to have DEI offices in Harvard and another campuses understand that religious identities and national identities are part of any policy of inclusivity.  And personally, I've seen results here, I think there is a greater understanding that these offices should cater to the needs of Jewish students. And I think this is institutionally one of the most important places that we can make things better for students in the long term, and shift the mindset of how administration deals with different identities within the school.  But this really requires an approach of being willing to work together with administration, even when they have disappointed us. To make the meetings, to speak to the deans, and to come with lists of of demands from our students. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You mentioned working with University officials and leaders who run the DEI programs, there on campus. And I know that there has also been a task force formed to address anti Muslim and anti Arab bias. And both that group and the antisemitism Task Force are being advised by the university's chief diversity and inclusion officer. Until now, have the DEI efforts adequately included Jewish students, or let me just say, have they addressed Jewish students' needs at all? Nitsan Machlis:   So pre October 7, not at all, at all. And I found that really shocking, even from having orientation presentations, where we speak about all the different identities in school, and no religious identities would be there. And I think that we had a similar issue with Muslim students in the school who also felt like their religious identity is not something they felt comfortable talking about, or expressing or asking for accommodations.  And in that sense, I think we should be building bridges with these kinds of student groups and working together because this is a dual issue. So we definitely did not see any of that pre-October 7. And a lot of our work with the DEI Deans has been making them aware that this is part of their toolkit and part of what they should be working on on campus.  And some of it is really basic stuff like celebrating Jewish holidays when we're celebrating different holidays. So giving that a space on campus, having people know that a lot of the student population are celebrating a holiday right now, building courses around antisemitism, talking about antisemitism in racism classes, clarifying who we can report antisemitism to on campus.  So these are small milestones. But I think what's important here is the mindset change. And understanding that if we want to talk about being inclusive, then we should be talking about religious identities, too. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Shabbos, there's the strategy of working from within, and there's this strategy of putting pressure from the outside. Do you feel like you kind of maximized used up any energy you had to try to work from within? Or is that in your experience, just not a successful strategy? And how did you decide to put the pressure on from the outside in the form of this lawsuit?  Shabbos Kestenbaum:   My mindset from day one was let's work with the administration, let's work from the inside. And in fact, when I was working with my legal team to draft this lawsuit, which took about three months, I was quite emphatic, and quite clear that should things change, I would be willing to drop the lawsuit in a heartbeat.  You know, I don't want to do this. And I don't want to go to DC. And I don't want to appear on different conferences, telling strangers how bad antisemitism is at Harvard. I want to learn. that's why I came to Harvard. But much like they say about Palestinian leadership, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.  The Harvard faculty, the Harvard administration are the exact same way. They failed time and time again, not only did they fail, but they made the situation untenable, they made the situation so much worse.  So my attitude in the past month or so has been these things are not amenable, we cannot change it. We have to dismantle it, we have to put pressure, outside pressure. Manya Brachear Pashman:   What are some of the mistakes that you're seeing in this battle to confront antisemitism? Nitsan Machlis:  The whole conversation on anti-Zionism being critical of Israel and antisemitism is a very, very, very complicated conversation. There are no easy answers. I wish I had easy answers. And we shouldn't be having a complicated conversation about it, we should not be having an easy answer to every single case of criticizing Israel is necessarily antisemitic. And when we do that, unfortunately, people take us less seriously.  Again, it's very complicated conversation. And I think very much of anti semitism is tied to anti-Zionism. And these things are not separate at all. I think we need to be very careful with how we fight antisemitism on campuses. And I think the listeners of this podcast will hopefully be willing to understand that climate is very, very, very complicated.  I'm very critical of Israel's policies, I was involved in a lot of political activism work, I'm also a Zionist, and I'm a proud Israeli and I will return to Israel to work within the Israeli political system.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Have you taken precautions to stay safe? Have you changed any of your behavior?  Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Yeah. So you know, going back to this example of the current Harvard employee who taunted me with a machete, I had private armed security outside my house for three days, I had armed security follow me to synagogue on Friday night, you know, my parents are always calling and checking in on me, they very much want me to leave Cambridge and to come back home.  And in the lawsuit, we also talked about how there was one instance at Widener library, which is really the heart and soul of Harvard University, where during finals week of the fall semester, there were hundreds of students chanting, globalize the Intifada, Palestine will be Arab, from the river to the sea. And Widener library's where I like to go. It's where I'm entitled to go as a Harvard student.  And I, of course, made sure not to, not even go into Widener library, but to change my regular route. So I wouldn't even have to walk across these people.  Because we already know as we saw in the week after October 7, these protests can get violent, they do get violent, you know, there was an incident of a physical altercation at the business school. So what has Harvard done about it? The answer is nothing.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   I'm just curious if your sense is that this climate already existed on campus, and October 7, that just intensified it, or are we just now paying attention to something that has long been there?  Shabbos Kestenbaum:   That's a great question. Well, before October 7, just as one anecdote, my first semester as a Harvard student, actually my first month, with the Palestine Solidarity committee invited Mohamed El Kurd to speak, this was his second time coming to campus. This is someone who said that Jews eat the organs of Palestinians. This is someone who says that the Israeli occupying forces have adopted the ways of Nazi Germany.  And this is also someone that literally last night lamented on Twitter, that it's such a shame that we can't hijack planes to pursue our cause. I mean, calling him a terrorist sympathizer puts it mildly.  Harvard has a strong track record, rightly or wrongly, but a strong track record of regulating speech that they find to be harmful to students. And they have a track record of rescinding invitations and even acceptances to students and to speakers in the name of promoting peace and safety for its students. The obvious and only exception is when it comes to Jews.  We went to the administration, we said this is someone who supports violence against Jewish people in the name of Palestinian resistance. And the answers we got were shrugs on the shoulder, and well, there's nothing we can do about it. The hypocrisy and the double standard is so breathtaking, is so hurtful, is so demeaning. This was my first month at Harvard.  So to say that this suddenly appeared out of nowhere, really does not encapsulate the pervasive problem of antisemitism at Harvard. And it also encapsulates how Harvard has enabled and in some cases, promoted this type of discourse and behavior amongst students and faculty.  Manya Brachear Pashman: Nitsan, you are a graduate student at Harvard's Kennedy School of public policy and government. Your classmates are learning how to navigate the complexities of policy negotiations and international diplomacy.  Do the conversations there tend to be elevated compared to the general campus discourse?  Nitsan Machlis:   I think this is exactly the vacuum that I've been feeling on campus. It took a very long time to be having serious policy conversations about this topic. And this is at the top policy school in the world. So if we're not having policy conversations on a foreign policy issue, the war in Israel and Gaza, then the people who are going to enter that vacuum are going to be bad actors and are going to be extremist activists sometimes, and their voices will be heard to a disproportional extent.  Now, I'm not saying these conversations aren't happening at all, because eventually people stepped up and some of my more impressive professors were brave enough to step up into that space. But they've been lone actors in a system that as a whole has not led discourse of this kind. Manya Brachear Pashman:   In other words, they're lone actors. There's not a community, there's not a mass, critical mass that is following in their footsteps. There really are just lone voices. Nitsan Machlis:   As students, we've had to push for this. And I think it isn't my role as a student to be asking a policy school to teach me policy. Manya Brachear Pashman:   You're not just Jewish, you're also Israeli. Does that help or hinder your role and your ability to carry on these conversations? I mean, you just said you're very critical of Israeli policies. To me I think that would help right in, in fostering conversations and teaching people that, you know, here are, these are policy conversations. Nitsan Machlis:   It's a very difficult point. And I think many times, my Israeli identity goes before me and colors anything I say, no matter what my thoughts are on the government, no matter what my thoughts are on Israeli politics. And that's very upsetting. And that's something that many Israeli students have felt on campus. I also think that we're learning how to have these conversations. And we're learning how to be strategic about the people we speak to, and the way we raise awareness.  I do my best not to give attention to the extreme people, but to work with moderates. And I think most students at the end of the day are a silent majority, who either are unaware of antisemitism happening on campus or are scared to speak up.  And working with them can be much more effective, in my opinion, than working with people who are shouting the loudest on the edges of the spectrum. And I can speak for the Israeli community at the Harvard Kennedy School, but that's something we've worked on together as a community, how do we target the majority, and not the people who are making us most upset and who gets the headlines, who are speaking on the margins of the campus discourse?  Manya Brachear Pashman:   Being from Israel I imagine it was incredibly difficult to watch abroad, what was happening in your home country? Do you have family or friends who were directly affected on October 7? Nitsan Machlis:   My brother had just finished his military service. He's an officer, he had actually come to the States for a visit and to travel after his service a week before October 7. And he got on a plane on October 8, and had been in Gaza for around three months since.  And this is actually a crazy story. But in one of the only times that he left Gaza during that time, he called me up and he said Nitsan, what's happening in Harvard. And I found that shocking, that someone who was actually at the frontlines and actually in a war and actually endangering their own life, was asking me what's happening on a campus on the other side of the world. And it's crazy, it really is.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   It speaks to the effect, the emotional impact on the Jewish community at large around the world, what's happening at such a major college campus. I'm also curious what the reaction on campus has been to you having a brother who's serving on the front lines? Nitsan Machlis:   That's a good question. And to be honest, that's something I don't feel comfortable sharing with most people in school. And that's a problem. There are people who know and there are people who have been very supportive. But there are many people who I've been concerned, what will they think of me? What will they think of my family? And it's a very difficult environment to navigate. Manya Brachear Pashman:   I'm sure it is. That would be taxing for any college student whose family is fighting in a war anywhere in the world. Not just with this added element. Nitsan, I certainly will keep your family in my prayers.  Nitsan, Shabbos: thank you both for sharing your difficult but different experiences on Harvard's campus. Nitsan Machlis:   Thank you.  Shabbos Kestenbaum:   Thank you for having me.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   If you missed last week's episode, be sure to tune in for my conversation with Julie Fishman Rayman, AJC's, managing director of policy and political affairs on the efforts in Congress to stand in solidarity with Israeli victims of Hamas' sexual violence and what you can do to make sure the plight of Israeli women is heard.

On the eighteenth episode of The Constitutionalist, Shane Leary and Dr. Benjamin Kleinerman are joined by Dr. Elizabeth Busch, the Laura and Pete Walker Professor in American Studies, Co-Director of the Center for American Studies, and Director of American Studies at Christopher Newport University. They discuss her 2018 book, Title IX: The Transformation of Sex Discrimination in Education, and the developments since then surrounding the controversial statute. The Constitutionalist is a podcast cohosted by Professor Benjamin Kleinerman, the RW Morrison Professor of Political Science at Baylor University and Founder and Editor of The Constitutionalist Blog, and his student, Shane Leary. Each week, they discuss political news in light of its constitutional implications, and explore a unique constitutional topic, ranging from the thoughts and experiences of America's founders and statesmen, historical episodes, and the broader philosophic ideas that influence the American experiment in government.

Meg investigates the epic expulsion of 14 students from Choate in '84. Jessica revisits Barneys for weird window shopping and THE chopped salad.Please check out our website, follow us on Instagram, on Facebook, and...WRITE US A REVIEW HEREWe'd LOVE to hear from you! Let us know if you have any ideas for stories HEREThank you for listening!Love,Meg and Jessica

To purchase a copy of 'Water's Gleaming Gold' with an exclusive Broken Oars Listener discount, please go to https://www.troubador.co.uk/bookshop/biography/waters-gleaming-gold-hb and quote " BROKENOARS " at the checkout page.   This discount code will allow you to buy the book at a 15% discount - and enjoy one of the great rowing stories!    -----   You didn't ask for it, so here it is ... The Broken Oars Podcast Christmas Special - Part Two!   Where's Part One, we hear you ask?   Well, it's on its way. But in the meantime, come join as we do Christmassy stuff!   That's right, Broken Oars Podcast discusses all things Christmas, including:   Title Nine, Trans, grown men breaking girls knees playing football, 'fessing up to our rare mistakes when it comes to who won what and where, and then going on to the year in review: who won what and where ... ? Why? Why watching Drew Ginn and Duncan do a practice 2k piece was so magical it caused one of us to retire from rowing; the brilliance of the Men's Four Final in 2012 (again), and our favourite race of the year - hint, they happened at Henley - reliving Clare's Court vs. Redwood Scullers; our favourite guest (you're all our favouite guests, btw); the winner of the inaugural James Widmer award for the podcast most likely to make you fall asleep on a motorway (Step forward, James Widmer); the healthy state of club representation in the UK; guests we'd like to talk to next year and our usual ... whither rowing ... ? convo.   Christmas, innit!     Enjoyed this episode?   Buy us a coffee, download a training plan, and support us so we can carry on making Broken Oars Podcast, the best rowing podcast in the world: www.buymeacoffee.com/brokenoarsd   Twitter: www.twitter.com/brokenoarspodc1   Instagram: www.instagram.com/brokenoarsindoors/   Website: www.thelandingstage.net

Guest Bios Show Transcript How did loving your enemies—a command of Jesus—suddenly become a sign that you're “woke”? And why is “owning the libs” now the answer to “What would Jesus do?”  On this edition of The Roys Report, bestselling author and journalist Tim Alberta joins host Julie Roys to explore a disturbing phenomenon in American evangelicalism. Though once evangelicals understood that the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man were separate, now the two are being combined into an unholy mix. And sadly, for millions of conservative Christians, America is their kingdom—and proper adherence to their political ideology is their litmus test for Christian orthodoxy! On this podcast, you'll hear Julie's compelling conversation with Tim, exploring how evangelicals got into this mess—and if, and how, we can get ourselves out. Yet Tim doesn't speak as an outside critic passing judgment, but as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor.  Tim spent years sifting through the wreckage of American evangelicalism, interviewing pastors, evangelical/political activists, congregants, and scholars. The result is his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, which tells story after illuminating story of major players and institutions within the evangelical movement that have succumbed to political idolatry.  One example is Liberty University, founded in 1971 by Jerry Falwell Sr. Recent headlines have exposed how Senior's now-disgraced son, Jerry Falwell, Jr., made Liberty into a far-right, culture warring, money-making powerhouse. But is this mixing of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man a corruption of Senior's vision—or, is it the culmination of it? And what does it say that everyone—the administration, board, and Liberty supporters—were all fine with it, as long as the money was coming in?  Tim also shares stunning admissions he got during one-on-one interviews with major evangelical/political figures, like Robert Jeffress and Ralph Reed. In private, these men confessed that they know mixing political advocacy with the gospel is misleading and wrong. Yet, as Tim documents, these men keep doing it! Yet Tim also offers stories of hope—like his chapter on Rev. Dr. John Dickson, who teaches at the flagship evangelical school, Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. In it, Tim explains why Dickson has become a missionary to America—and how Christians can lose the culture wars yet live joyfully and winsomely among unbelievers. Tim's book also includes a chapter on exposing abuse and corruption, featuring Rachel Denhollander's work and our work at The Roys Report. On the podcast, we discuss why our reporting is so important and why this chapter is Tim's mother's favorite! This is such an important podcast for Christians wanting to remain true to their calling to worship God first and foremost, rather than succumb to political idolatry.  Guests Tim Alberta Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal and National Review. He is the author of The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism and the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. He lives in southeast Michigan with his wife and three sons. Show Transcript SPEAKERS TIM ALBERTA, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04 How did loving your enemies, a command of Jesus, suddenly become a sign that you're woke? And why is owning the libs now the answer to what would Jesus do? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this podcast is New York Times bestselling author Tim Alberta, whose latest book explores what happened to American evangelicalism. Decades ago, Americans viewed evangelicalism favorably. In 1976, author and historian Gary Wills called evangelicalism, the major religious force in America, both in numbers and an impact. And leading evangelical thinkers claimed that evangelicalism could no longer be regarded as reactionary but was vigorously and sometimes creatively speaking to the needs of the contemporary world. Fast forward to today and evangelicalism has become synonymous with Donald Trump, a thrice married vulgar opportunist who said he doesn't need to repent or ask for forgiveness. A recent poll by Pew Research found that the only religious group that views evangelicals favorably are evangelicals. And as Tim Alberta notes in his book in 1991 90% of Americans identified as Christians, but today, only 63% do. What happened to this once vibrant movement? And can it be saved, or has it passed beyond the point of no return? Un his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory. Tim Alberta does a masterful job of exploring these questions, but he doesn't do it as an outside critic passing judgment. But as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor. I found Tim's book eye opening on many levels, and I'm so excited to share this interview with you. Julie Roys  01:47 But before I do, I want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity, to check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys  02:51 Well, again, joining me is Tim Alberta, a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico. Tim also is the author of The New York Times best seller American Carnage on the Frontlines of the Republican Civil War, and the Rise of President Trump. And his latest book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, explores American evangelicals in an age of extremism. So, Tim, welcome. It is just such a pleasure to be with you again. TIM ALBERTA  03:16 Yes, Julie, it is. It's great to catch up with you and come sort of full circle from where we were a couple of years ago talking about all of this. Julie Roys  03:24 That's right. We spent a couple of well, more than a couple of hours. I think it was supposed to be like maybe an hour and a half, and we got so into our discussion. I think we closed down one coffee shop and went to another. TIM ALBERTA  03:35 We did. I hijacked your whole day. Julie Roys  03:38 Oh, it was fantastic. And so, encouraging to me, but always fun to talk to a fellow journalist with similar convictions. And I was excited about this book when we had our discussion. I'm so honored, I have to say, you know, to get the galley of the book, and I figured because we spent so much time that I'd be in it, but you know, just what you wrote, and the way that you captured some things just so honored to be featured in a chapter with Rachel den Hollander. So, thank you so much for that. I just really appreciate it. TIM ALBERTA  04:07 I should tell you that is my mother's favorite chapter of the book. Oh, for what it's worth, because she's big into strong feminine Christian leadership. And so, she was particularly smitten with you and with Rachel. So, I thought you should know that. Julie Roys  04:21 Oh, wow. Well, I'm honored. I really am. And I should mention that we are offering your book as a premium to anybody who gives $50 or more to The Roys Report in this month. Again, this is just a way that you're able to support the work that we do, but also get this fantastic book. Just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE if you're able to help us out and continue the work that we do, and also get what could be a great Christmas present for somebody or for yourself. So anyway, encourage you to do that. Well, Tim, as I mentioned in the open, you're not writing this book as sort of an outsider critiquing evangelicalism. You grew up evangelical, your dad was an evangelical pastor. And oddly enough, it was at your dad's funeral in 2019, that something sort of awakened you to the severity of what's happening right now within evangelicalism. Tell us a bit about that story. TIM ALBERTA  05:17 Yeah, so my dad, Reverend Richard Alberta, was an amazing, amazing guy. We were very close. And he had a pretty crazy come to Jesus story himself where he was actually kind of a hotshot New York finance guy. And my mom was kind of a hotshot, young journalist with ABC Radio. They lived in New York and my dad, despite having all of this worldly material success, just felt this emptiness. And he was an atheist. He grew up in an unbelieving home. And he, one day stumbled into this church in the Hudson Valley, and heard the gospel and he gave his life to Christ. And it was already a pretty dramatic conversion because he became completely unrecognizable to people around him, including my mom, who was not yet a Christian. Everybody who knew him just thought he was sort of losing it. Suddenly, he's waking up at four in the morning to read his Bible and meditate in prayer for hours. And they're all like, what is this guy doing? And then pretty soon after that, he feels the Lord calling him to ministry. And now they all think he's like certifiable, right? You know, but he follows the Lord's calling. And, you know, he and my mom who became a Christian, they sell all the possessions so he can go to seminary, and they basically they give up this pretty lavish lifestyle they'd had. And for the next like, 20 years, they just work in small churches and live on food stamps and serve the Lord that way. And then when I come along, some years later, we eventually settle in Brighton, which is a suburb of Detroit. And my dad builds this kind of small startup church there into kind of a mega church. And that was my home. It was my community. It was my whole life, really. My mom was on the staff there at the church as well. It was called Cornerstone Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I was raised physically, literally, inside of that church. TIM ALBERTA  07:11 And so, my dad dies a few years back. And when I came back to the church for the funeral, because of the work I've done in politics, and because I had just recently written this book about Trumpism and his takeover of the Republican Party, I was kind of in the crosshairs of right-wing media at that time, because of the book. And so, at the funeral or at the wake during the visitation, I had a bunch of people at the church kind of confronting me and wanting to argue about politics and about Trump and asking me if I was still a Christian and how I could be criticizing him this way. And it was pretty ugly. And as you said, sort of a wakeup call. Julie Roys  07:52 Yeah. And it is something isn't it when you don't support these people that certain evangelicalism believe you have to your, you know, I've got people praying for my salvation, because I've taken on John MacArthur, you know, It's craziness. But there is this tribalism now, within evangelicalism, and it's probably at its very worst when it comes to former President Trump and what he typified. It's interesting to me, you know, as I look at the evangelical movement, you know, I was a card-carrying conservative right? Before Trump came along, and then something really happened. And I feel like I was going back and reading a little bit of Chuck Colson's, Kingdoms in Conflict. Do you remember that book? TIM ALBERTA  08:34 I do. Yeah. Julie Roys  08:35 I mean, he was pretty even handed. I mean, he's very clear in there that being in the kingdom of heaven means it's not about ruling others, it's about being under God's rule. And yet something has tripped, where we're not saying that anymore. We're really become about this whole Dominionism. And he talks about the cultural mandate and things like that, but it's from a very, very different perspective. So here we are dealing with all of this Christian nationalism, and according to your book, a lot of this began, and it's funny because now, Lynchburg Virginia has become synonymous with the Falwell's and with Liberty University. But I've got to say, growing up in the 80s, you know, I knew about the Moral Majority, and some of that, but it just wasn't that big to me. And yet it has grown and grown, and I guess I wasn't even aware of the influence it had. But talk about how a lot of this has its roots really there, in Lynchburg, Virginia, and with what Jerry Falwell Senior. started in, like the late 70s, early 80s. TIM ALBERTA  09:42 Sure, in the context of the American church experience, it is Lynchburg, Virginia. It is the mid-1970s. And it is Jerry Falwell Senior who was a brilliant businessman who, you know, this guy could sell anyone on anything, and he was kind of a master entrepreneur, also a master manipulator. And what Falwell Senior. effectively did, he had already built out Thomas Road Baptist Church into a massive congregation. And then he had tapped into the relatively new medium of television to broadcast his sermons around the country. At one point, he became the single most telecasted program in the entire country. And so, he's reaching millions of people and he's raising a lot of money. This is pretty cutting-edge stuff at the time, but he's building out a mailing list with like more than 10 million names on it, and they are raking in money. So, then he already has his church. But Falwell, Senior is really almost the early archetype of the Christian nationalist. He believes that sort of fighting for God and fighting for America is one in the same and that if America falls, then almost God's kingdom on earth will fall. And so he recognizes that he needs something more than a church; that he needs kind of a cultural stronghold. So, he does two things. First, he takes this little Baptist College Lynchburg Baptist College, and at the time of the bicentennial in 1976, he rebrands it to Liberty University, and he changes the colors from green and gold to red, white, and blue. And basically, they do this whole patriotic rebranding exercise, which is aimed at tapping into not only patriotism in the church, but also tapping into the percolating low simmering at the time, fear in the church and grievance in the church. This sense that, you know, abortion is now legal. Pornography is prevalent, the drug culture is out of control. Prayer is banned in public schools. Secularism is on the march and they're coming for us like they are coming for Christianity in America. And so, Jerry Falwell turns Liberty University into this cause, and then piggybacks onto that with this new organization, The Moral Majority. So suddenly, he's got these three cogs. And he builds out this machine, Falwell Senior does, and it is incredibly effective. They mobilize 10s of millions of voters and sort of bring them under this banner of not just, you know, Christianity, not just following Jesus, but a very particular type of Christianity, a sort of subculture of a subculture. And in many ways, those seeds planted by Falwell 50 years ago, we are harvesting them now. And what we are dealing with, you know, the fracturing of the modern evangelical movement, I think you can trace it directly back to that period. Julie Roys  12:36 It's so interesting, because I think when you talk about Jerry Falwell Senior, and I've talked to a lot of people from Liberty, I've done a lot of reporting about Liberty. And a lot of folks look very wistfully back to the early days, and these are good people, you know, I've talked extensively to them. They're really good people, sincere believers. They look at what's happened to Liberty, and they're like, this isn't Senior. Like Senior loved the Lord and he really was sincere in his walk with the Lord and Junior just was like, we don't know how Junior happened, right? I mean, that's how they often talk about it. I'm going to have you come back to that, because I think what you present is a very, very different picture and honestly, one that I've begun to suspect myself. But let's talk about what happens with you know, Senior dies pretty abruptly right of a heart attack. And then Jerry Falwell, Junior, who is the lawyer, right? He takes over not Jonathan Falwell, who's the pastor, much more of the spiritual leader, but Jerry Falwell, Junior takes over. Very clearly, I'm not a spiritual leader. I mean, he really assued that whole entire title. But when he takes over, despite all the success that his dad had, the school was on the brink of bankruptcy at this point, right? And he kind of turns it around. 13:57 So, Falwell, Junior. is the yes, the UVA trained lawyer, businessman, real estate developer, who is a smart guy. He knows business. And he had really kept the church and organized religion at arm's length. His younger brother Jonathan was the preacher in the family. But Jerry Junior, he'd gone to Liberty for his undergraduate studies. And he says that, you know, he believes in the teachings of Jesus but rejects a lot of the other stuff that comes with it, including Liberty itself. Jerry Junior never wanted to really be a part of Liberty. And suddenly as he's working in the private sector, the school is about to go under. Jerry Senior has really badly mismanaged the finances and he tells his son that basically the school is on the brink of insolvency. And so, Jerry Junior kind of reluctantly comes aboard and he helps to stabilize everything, and he makes a lot of drastic cuts to the different programs and kind of rejiggers the whole balance sheet operation. And he saves Liberty in a lot of ways that, you know, his father gave him credit for that. And it's interesting though, Julie, that when Jerry Falwell senior dies, it's not an accident that Jerry Junior. takes over. That was the plan of succession. It's notable that here is Jerry Falwell senior, who is both businessman and culture warrior, but also a preacher. And he's got these two sons that exemplify one of each, right? He's got the son who's a preacher. And he's got the other son who's the kind of culture warrior businessman. And he appoints the latter to take over Liberty after he's gone. And that in and of itself, I think, speaks volumes. And then more to the point, Jerry Junior, as you said, he comes in and he tells anybody who will listen, look, I'm not a religious leader, I'm not here charged with the spiritual well-being of this school. I'm here to turn us into a powerhouse, I'm here to turn us into a highly profitable, highly influential organization that can sort of, you know, push back against the forces of secularism in the left in this country. But he doesn't, to his credit, I suppose. Falwell Junior, he doesn't pretend that he's something that he's not. And the irony of it all, Julie is that everybody was fine with it. They were fine with it. Right? They were, as you know, when the money was coming in, and the buildings were going up at a rapid clip, and the endowment was bulging, everybody was fine with it. Because he's Jerry Senior's namesake, and he's a Falwell, and the school is doing great. Clearly God is blessing this project. So, what's not to like? Julie Roys  16:47 Well, and you say everyone was fine with it. And it's true on a public face, everyone was fine with it. I will say I started hearing from a lot of people who weren't fine with it from I mean, obviously the Jane DOE's and now we know about who were victims of sexual assault, and their cases got just horribly mismanaged. In fact, not even reported. And you know, now we have the Department of Education looking into how badly Liberty bungled these cases and violated Title Nine mandates, and they could face like a 30 some million dollar fine, which could be one of the largest ever. So, this was percolating under the surface, but nobody knew about it at the time. And I also talked to a lot of professors who were like, the way this place is being run is abysmal. There's nothing Christian about it. The way the administration handles things, there's nothing Christian about it. And we know too, from some of the people you interviewed, it was less like a religious institution and more like a mafia like a mob boss. Like Jerry turned into I think Jerry is very, he's very likable when you meet him. I mean, obviously very socially gifted, even though he's an introvert. He seems like this kind of your good old boy that, you know, everybody likes. But he began to become very controlling, and lock that place down where Jerry ruled with really an iron fist. And by the time some of the stuff started coming out about him, that place I mean, am I right, that it was a lot less like a Christian institution a lot more like the organized crime syndicate? TIM ALBERTA  18:24 Yeah, well, and listen like this is so Julie. It's funny, because obviously, you and I are in the same line of work. We're coming at this from pretty similar worldviews, and we're having similar conversations, with some of the same people. And you're exactly right when they're using the term family business. You know, Liberty is a family business. They're not just talking about like the Falwell family. There's, you know, the implication there is like very clearly that there is almost a mafioso-esque quality to, you don't cross the Falwell's, the power is concentrated in a few hands here. If you get a seat at the table, you are just lucky to be there and you nod and you know, at one point, I think I make sort of an offhand smart aleck comparison to like the North Korean military where, you know, you stand and salute the dear leader and don't dare step out of line. And of course, that's tragic on a number of levels, one of them being that Liberty has been filled over the years with really good and godly students and good and godly professors who are there for the right reasons. Some of these professors who started to really see the rot from the inside., they chose to stick around because on the one hand, they could see the success around them. The kind of observable material success that you know that the campus is absolutely stunning. Maybe God is doing something really marvelous here and I just have to kind of see my way through this part of it. But I also think that there's a level of devotion, and a feeling for some of these people that they wanted to help right the ship, that they wanted to be a part of the solution. And obviously, those are some of the characters I talk to in the book who now have finally gotten to a breaking point where they say, you know what? I just can't do it anymore. And not only can I not do it anymore, but the world needs to know, the whistle needs to be blown here that like this is not okay. Julie Roys  20:21 What does it say about evangelicalism, Tim, that when the money was coming in, and the money still is coming in, that everybody was okay with how godless this place was? And anybody that was in administration knew and saw it. The Board, who it's astounding to me that when Jerry Falwell Junior, got embroiled in this big sex scandal, and he gets fired, that Jerry Prevo takes over. And we think that that is a change of the guard. This was the man who was the chairman of the board the whole time that Jerry was doing all of this stuff. It's shocking to me, but yet I see it so much in so many different Christian organizations. And so, what is it about us that we're okay with these things, with really what is just absolute rampant hypocrisy? TIM ALBERTA  21:15 I'm afraid that in many ways, we're actually worse than some of those secular institutions. Because of this idea of the prosperity gospel, it's almost become like this proper noun. And so, people feel like well, those are those people are crazy. I'm not one of them, I'm not a part of that, right? But the idea inherent to the prosperity gospel, right is that, well, if you give to the Lord, and if you serve the Lord, if you follow the Lord, then you will be blessed. But that is so conveniently and so easily reverse engineered by a lot of Christians, either at a conscious or at a subconscious level, where when you see any sort of material success around you, you then say, well, clearly, I'm blessed. Clearly, the Lord is blessing this project. And that creates a kind of a permission structure, I think, for a lot of us to then turn a blind eye to things that are very obviously wrong, or kind of downplay things that you otherwise would never downplay. And whether that's an individual church congregation, whether that's a big college campus, whether it's the President of the United States, this can manifest in a lot of different ways. It's so much based on that kind of material thinking that I think we are particularly vulnerable, particularly susceptible to it here in the American church. I think the saddest part about it is that many of us just don't see it, or maybe don't want to see it. I don't know. Julie Roys  22:44 Your book has a stunning quote, stunning quote by a former professor, Dr. Aaron Warner. And he says, and I quote, Jerry, Senior, was always a bit of a scoundrel, and Jerry Junior, perfected the art of using fear and hatred as a growth strategy. Christianity happens to be the thing that they used to build a multibillion-dollar institution. It could have been anything else. It could have been moonshine, but they chose Christianity. And it's gained them a lot of power and a lot of money; the two things these people truly worship. You talked to a lot of people, interviewed a lot of people at Liberty. Is that characterization fair? Or do you think it's a little too harsh? TIM ALBERTA  23:23 It's harsh, that's for sure. It might contain some traces of hyperbole. But I will say this, Aaron Werner is another guy who knows that institution very well. Went there as an undergraduate, has deep longstanding ties to Liberty And the stories he tells from the inside are stunning. One of the other quotes, actually, I thought it might be the one that you're going to read because it kind of runs right along in parallel to that one is from a current professor. Now, at the time of this recording, he's a current professor. My sense is that when the book releases and when this gets back to the administration that he could be dismissed and he's expecting that that will happen. But his name is Nick Olsen, and he's an English professor, very popular English professor there. Brilliant, godly young guy. And he's a legacy at Liberty. His dad was one of the first students at Liberty and a contemporary of Falwell Senior. And Nick has sort of agonized in recent years with this inheritance at Liberty and everything that he's seen and struggled with there. And he says to me, this is not quite verbatim, but he says this to me in the final chapter of the book, he says, Jerry Junior, thought that he was fulfilling his father's vision by assuing spiritual stuff and by building out this massive multibillion dollar like culture warring Republican institution. And he says, and it is heartbreaking, because that's exactly what he's done, and he did fulfill Jerry Senior's vision. And I think that piece of it, Julie is not hyperbole. I think that when you spend enough time digging through the archives and talking to people who were there in the room where it happened, so to speak, it becomes pretty self-evident. And by the way, you know, you mentioned earlier that there are people who will say, Yeah, but you know, Jerry Senior, he really loved the Lord. Yeah, well, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I mean, I'm not suggesting that he didn't love the Lord. But I'm suggesting that like many people who love the Lord, he got his priorities out of whack. And by the way, we are all susceptible to this. But it's very hard to evaluate the history of Liberty University, the decisions made there, the structure of the place and the personnel and how they've treated people and what the benchmarks have been. It's very hard to assess all of that and reach any other conclusion than the one that Nick Olsen reaches at the end of the book. Julie Roys  25:41 And yet Liberty continues to be the largest Christian university in the country. It still has this dominance, there's still a lot of people that I know sending their kids there. And it's heartbreaking to me. I mean, I just wonder at what point do we say enough, and we stand up to this? And I'm glad that people are starting to speak out. But sometimes I wonder if it's too little too late, when we have just these juggernaut organizations and it really has been a marrying of two kingdoms that should be in conflict, and we're trying to say that they can be married together the kingdom of this world, the kingdom, the political realm, and the kingdom of Christ. And Jesus never became a political leader. It's stunning to me some of these quotes that are in your book, that are just like you expect a lightning to fall out of the sky, the way that scripture and Jesus are being misrepresented. It's just so awful. Julie Roys  26:37 In your first section, though, I have to say there's always some redeeming thing in each section, which I'm like, Thank You, Lord. It's like a palate cleanser in a lot of just awful stuff. But you have this beautiful chapter. And it's on a guy, John Dixon, who I actually got to know in my reporting on Ravi Zacharias, because John used to be a speaker for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. And he was one of those who, you know, pretty early in the game as things were starting to come out, recognized that there were some lies being told by the institution he had been a part of, and he quickly made a break, and he boldly took a stand. I mean, I really respected him for that, that he didn't seem to have this Oh, fear of, if I say something, what's going to happen to me? I mean, he just said what was right, and what was what was true. And now he's at Wheaton College, which is right in my backyard. And what I love is that he's so joyfully on the losing team. You know, we've got all of these people, all these Christians out there telling us we have to be on the winning team, we got to take America back. And here's John Dixon saying, No, we're on the losing team right now. I mean, eventually, when Christ comes back, we'll be you know, he will set things right, and we'll be on the winning team. But for now, we're kind of on the losing team. And it's okay, people. So, talk about John and what we can learn from him and his example, because again, he's from Australia, which is probably about 10 or 15 years ahead of us in sort of this post Christian era that, you know, is beginning to happen here as well. Julie Roys  28:16 And that is so tough for us. I mean, it's not tough for Chinese Christians to get this, right? I mean they get it right away. Because to be a believer means you have to get rid of everything, you can't hold on to anything, you're gonna lose all your power, all your position. But I think we've been, actually it's the curse of being prosperous. And being in a country where Christians have had the majority and where it actually was a plus, probably for my parents to be believers. I think it won't be for my children. But maybe that'll be a good thing. And maybe that's precisely what the church needs. We already think we're being persecuted, which is funny. We really aren't. But we may see it. And right now, I think most of the persecution we're getting is because of what you said that we're not because we're so holy, but because we're actually worse than the world in so many different ways. And we deserve it. TIM ALBERTA  28:16 John is really one of my favorite people I've met in all of the journeys that I was on, and one of my favorite characters in the book for exactly the reasons that you mentioned there. And the fact that he is not an American is, I think, a big part of his perspective, right? But I think also, there's something deeper embedded in the American psyche, about winning, about the need to dominate. I have a funny quote somewhere else in the book from somebody who had spent years living and studying and teaching in Canada, who talks about how Canadians just want fourth place, and then when they get the bronze, they're thrilled. And in America, if you don't get the gold, you're a total loser, right? And so, there's something, you know, about the American Christian experience that's so different. And so, John, one of my favorite scenes in all of this reporting that I did was, we're sitting in the cafeteria there at Wheaton College, surrounded by the flags of the world all around us in the cafeteria. And I say, Why did you come here? Like, really? Why did you come here? And he says, like, this is my mission field now, like the US is my mission field because of this, this stuff. Everything you and I are discussing right now. He said this stuff is like so toxic and so unhealthy. And the church is caught in this terrible pattern. That, by the way, is not new. Right? You go back to Constantine, there has been this obsession with worldly power this inclination to merge two kingdoms into one. So, what we're living through here is not new, in a lot of ways. And I think John is so brilliant in kind of illuminating the appropriate Christian perspective here, which is to say that if you care so much about winning and losing, then the good news is you've already won, right? The tomb is empty, Jesus conquered death, and you believe in him. So therefore, you're already a part of the kingdom. But this place, which is meant to be ephemeral, and unimportant ultimately, and just, you know, a step among the stairs, that if your identity here is wrapped up in winning and losing, then you can't really have your identity there. And he says, ultimately, you know, we're the death and resurrection people. Like losing, and losing well, is a part of the Christian experience. TIM ALBERTA  31:24 John Dixon talks about how there's sort of this inverse relationship historically, between the amount of cultural and social and political power held by Christians in a society and the health of Christianity in that society, right? In other words, when you hold the commanding heights, the Christian influence it actually tends to be pretty weak and pretty corrupted and pretty compromised. When you are at the margins and when you are truly countercultural, the witness thrives. And we've seen that throughout history. Another favorite character of mine in the book, Brian Zahnd, who's the pastor of a church out in Missouri, he talks about how difficult it is for American Christians to really appreciate how the Bible is written from the perspective of the underdog, right? The Hebrew slaves fleeing Egypt, and the first century Christians living under a brutal Roman occupation. Like they had no power, they had no influence. And yet they were so joyful, and they were so content because they had their kingdom, right? And it does give me unease even in my own personal life, just the things I enjoy the materials, the prosperity, the comforts; can I fully appreciate the baby born in a manger? can I fully identify with the vagrant preacher from the ghettos of Nazareth? You know, it's a hard thing. Julie Roys  32:42 And here's the reality; that message, which is Christ's message really doesn't sell well in America. Having your best life now sells in America. And what we're seeing right now, and this, you know, brings me to the second section in your book dealing with power, which again, we've got to take back, America, has become sort of the mantra that we're hearing from so many of these, you know, political rights. And it has just morphed into something where, and again, I said at the outset, I used to be very much politically engaged with the conservative movement. I am not anymore because I can't stomach it and what it's become. I felt like we were being salt. But now it's about dominating and doing it by any means possible, where we just get rid of our morality. And I was always brought up to believe and I think this is what Scripture teaches, that the means is as important as the end. And so, if we achieve a righteous end through an unrighteous means, then we've lost. We've completely lost because we have given up what makes us unique, and what makes us God honoring for something that we're saying is a God honoring, you know end. But again, this is what has happened in our country. And, and what's interesting in this section that just captured my imagination. I mean, I've wondered this, like, you take a Robert Jeffress, right? This guy's not dumb. He's a smart Southern Baptist preacher, clearly a savvy guy. He has built this mega church, but the things that came out of his mouth, especially when Trump was in power, but it's still there. The things that come out of his mouth, and I think, he's got to know that this is not in line with the Gospels. He's got to see this. And yet, publicly, you wouldn't hear that. But when you met with him privately, you began to hear some doubt in there and allowing you to see a little bit of vulnerability, although it didn't seem to last all that long. But talk about that, because I'm not sensing much doubt in the masses that follow these men. But when you get them one on one, tell me what you see. TIM ALBERTA  34:50 And it's not just Robert Jeffress, Greg Locke, Greg Locke, Ralph Reed. Yeah, yeah, a lot of these guys. It's the pastor who in my hometown, grew his church tenfold by basically turning Sunday morning worship services into Fox news segments. And giving a Nazi salute to Gretchen Whitmer from his pulpit. I mean, but then you get them one on one. And you press them a little bit. I mean, you know, politely, respectfully, but you press them. Suddenly, they not only back off a little bit, but they do a little bit of like winking and nodding at you to basically say, like, you're right, I'm definitely putting on a bit of a song and dance here for the masses. But I think that they will ultimately justify it by saying, Well, yeah, but look at all these people who are coming in and look at the opportunity, we have to reach them now with the gospel? So, you know, those ends really do justify the means. I think the problem with that, as you hinted it, is but look, I mean, there's a lot of problems with it. You know, Mark 8:36 is not a rhetorical question, right? Like, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul? But I think for some of these people, some of these leaders, the thing that really grates at me and I know it grates at you, Julie, is like, they're the shepherds, they're the ones who are supposed to know better, because a lot of their flock, you know, and I'm not being condescending or patronizing when I say this, they don't necessarily know better, they are the sheep, right? They need to be shepherded. And instead of shepherding, a lot of these people have just themselves become wolves. And they become wolves for what? So that you can have a seat at the table? So that you can get on Fox News? So that you can raise some money? So that for what ultimately? You're so right, when you press them on it almost to a person, they will acknowledge at some level that what they're doing is kind of gross, and kind of anti-biblical, and then they just keep on doing it. Julie Roys  36:46 So, speak to the person who is listening. And we probably don't have a ton of these. But there may be some who are listening, who have bought this hook, line, and sinker that we do need to take America back. And Franklin Graham told us it's all for the Supreme Court justices, and we got the Supreme Court justices and Roe v. Wade was just overturned and, you know, look at what was accomplished. So, you know, politics is a dirty business, Tim. I mean, come on, if we're gonna win in politics, which, you know, we're talking about babies here, babies are being slaughtered left and right. And then, you know, some of these people would allow a baby to be born alive and kill it. You know, that's who these people are. So, I mean, come on. This is the world we live in, and we've got to fight the way that the world fights. What do you say? TIM ALBERTA  37:35 I'd say a couple of things. I think you can go round and round about Roe v. Wade, and about Trump and about Supreme Court justices. But be careful what you wish for in this space. Because the fact of the matter is that Roe v Wade fell, and the total number of abortions in this country went up. I live in Michigan, where prior to Roe v Wade falling, there were pretty tight abortion restrictions in Michigan. Now, it is the wild west. It is some of the most liberalized abortion laws in the country. And that is true in seven or eight other states that have had ballot initiatives passed since Roe v. Wade, dramatically liberalizing abortion laws, and it's going to happen in a number of other states next year. So, let's be really clear eyed and fact based when we talk about what our political involvement does and what it doesn't do. At the end of the day, if you want to win hearts and minds to stop the scourge of abortion, if you are a Christian, and you view this as your great crusade, then is voting for a candidate or putting a bumper sticker on your car, is that the way to win those hearts and minds? Because the fact is, if American evangelicals had put a fraction of the energy into the social side of abortion, of doing the hard work in the clinics, and helping the single mothers and doing the foster care that is needed to address this at its root, if they had been willing to do that over the last 50 years, my guess is that public opinion would be dramatically different as it pertains to abortion. And we wouldn't even be talking about Roe v. Wade, because the number of abortions would be so low in this country that it wouldn't even register. But we've sort of self-selected into this alternate universe where politicians are our savior, and that politics is the mechanism by which we right the wrongs in this country. And I'm sorry, but if you are citizens of another kingdom?, then you can't possibly believe that. You can't possibly believe that Donald Trump or that any other politician is the person who's going to ultimately right these great moral wrongs. But unfortunately, I think that's the trap we've fallen into. Julie Roys  39:51 You know, I used to be very involved in the prolife movement. I will say, almost all of the people that I knew when I was involved in the pro-life movement, were actually involved in reaching out to single moms and caring for them and caring for their unborn children. But I think what we've forgotten so much is that politics is downstream of culture. So, if you're losing the culture, which we clearly are to change the politics, if you've got a kid that's rebellious, a teenager who's rebellious in your home, locking down all the windows and the doors in your house, that's not going to keep your kid from sinning. What's going to keep your kid from sinning, is if you can winsomely love your child into relationship with Jesus Christ and to want to be like you and to want to adopt your values. But we've forgotten about that, we've become this, you know, Midas right. And I remember in 2016, writing a commentary, The Rise of Trump, The Fall of Evangelicalism, and I said, we may win this one, but we will lose in the long run, if we throw our convictions out the window, and we alienate everyone around us, by our you know, the way that we talk and the way that we relate to people. This is not how you win people to the Lord. That fell on, you know, really deaf ears. It actually lost me some key supporters too. But I just was stunned because I did not know who these people were that I thought believed the same way that I did and had the same values. And then I went, Wow, we are just on different planets, we really don't have that. Julie Roys  41:29 I want to look at one person, again, you have these palate cleansers within all of these sections. And one of them to me is Cal Thomas, who was very much a part of the right and so I can relate to that, because that was I mean, I used to be emceeing the banquet to raise money for you know, the political cause, or whatever it was. I don't do that anymore. Cal Thomas doesn't do that anymore. What changed Cal? TIM ALBERTA  41:58 It's so funny, Julie, because just a minute ago, when you were talking about what are the weapons of our warfare? I was thinking about Cal., because Cal for those who don't know his story, you know, he was Jerry Falwell Senior's lieutenant in the Moral Majority. And he was their spokesman for the Moral Majority. And the vice president of that organization, and, you know, was really heavily involved in the kind of crusading era of the Religious Right, he was a central figure. And then Cal really started to feel uneasy with what he was seeing around him. And he doesn't even sugarcoat it. We have this very raw conversation in the book where he talks about, you know, the corruption and the greed and the grift. And how he just couldn't justify it. He justified it for a while by saying, Well, look how many people we're reaching, and look at all this money coming in. So clearly, you know, God must be doing something here. And then he eventually just gets to a point where he says, No, this is a scam. It's just immoral. And he finally walks away. And then years later, he writes this book called Blinded by Might, where he kind of tries to atone. And he just says, Listen, I was a total believer in winning the culture war to protect Christian America, as you know, part of our duty, you know, to God's kingdom. And in fact, not only has it failed, but it has backfired spectacularly, that we have driven away so many people who need Jesus, but who won't have anything to do with us anymore, They won't even let us in the door to have a conversation because of the way we've treated them because of the way we've treated the culture. So, to your point about locking down the teenager in the house, right? Cal really eloquently and powerfully was giving voice to this when he wrote that book. And then, you know, in our interviews for this book, he's an older guy now he's 80. And he's looking back with such regret on those years and thinking about how did he in some way contribute to laying the groundwork for Trump ism as this kind of sub cult in the evangelical world. And what's most interesting to me from that whole conversation, and I said this to him, is that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the exact same. I mean, this break that he's describing in the 1980s. And this kind of crisis of conscience that he's feeling is exactly what we're trying to address today. What I'm trying to address in the book now, which is that, listen, it doesn't have to be this way. You have a choice, right? We all have a choice. It was so incredibly unpleasant for me to write this book in a lot of ways, Julie. If I'm being totally honest, I probably couldn't have written it while my dad was still alive. It would have been too hard. Like I've had some people writing me emails this past week saying, oh, like thank you for your courage. Thank you for your brave, I don't feel courageous. I don't feel brave. I feel like a coward in a lot of ways that it took me so long and that a lot of ways took my dad dying and having those experiences at his funeral to finally be willing to acknowledge and use my platform, my relatively high profile journalistically speaking to address this thing that has been so clearly wrong for such a long time. And so, for anybody listening, whether it's in your individual congregation, your faith community, your family, whatever it is like, it doesn't have to be this way. And it takes people like Cal Thomas, kind of blowing up his own life, blowing up his tribal affiliations and walking away. It takes Pastor Brian Zahnd, who I write about in Chapter 15, who had a mega church of 5000 people, and they were making money hand over fist. And then he just woke up one day and had this like epiphany from the Lord that it was all wrong, and that it was so shallow, and it was doing such a disservice to the Gospel. And he blew up his mega church. He's got like 150 people who come every Sunday now and the sanctuary seats like 2000. And he made a choice, right? Cal Thomas made a choice. You've made a choice, Julie. And I just think like, at the end of the day, the people who make that choice and who decide to reckon with what this has become? I don't think they're going to regret it. I really don't. Julie Roys  46:05 I have not regretted it once being free of the whole evangelical industrial complex as it's called, and just being free to follow your conscience without thinking, what are the consequences if I speak the truth publicly? Like what's going to happen to me? Like I see so many Christians just living in fear that if they speak out, or they tell the truth that they know that something, you know, there will be bad consequences for me, and it just makes me wonder, do we believe the gospel, like do we believe the gospel? What gospel are we living on day-to-day basis? And I love Pastor Zahnd's story that was like one of my favorite stories. And it reminded me of the book because I just interviewed Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer and their book pivot, which talks about similar things, other churches that realized church is toxic. It's huge, it's successful, but I feel empty inside, you know, and I feel thin, and they made that pivot. And it may be to smaller church, it may be and it's interesting, though, you were saying how Zahnd's church is now starting to maybe even start to grow and become a little bit healthier. And so, when I hear that I say, it's going to take a while. But in this, you know, these ashes, do you see something growing that's beautiful there that can replace this ugliness that quite frankly, I think I just think it's doomed. I think it's coming down. I don't know that it will come down quickly. This complex that we've built, but I think it will come down eventually. It may take decades. But I think there will be a Christianity I hope this was my prayer that replaces it. And it's more organic and more Grassroots less big leadership and more the Body of Christ. TIM ALBERTA  47:48 Yes,  I do see something rising from the ashes. I can sense it, particularly among the younger generation. One of the things that consistently surprised me in all of my reporting, and it was a pleasant surprise, to be clear, was spending time with younger believers. They ideologically, culturally, politically, like they're really no different from their parents, like they check those boxes on paper. But then you kind of get into some of this with them. And they want nothing to do with Trumpism. They want nothing to do with Charlie Kirk, and I'm talking about like the serious believers. I'm not talking about like the very casual kids who identify as Christian, but then go to a Turning Point USA event. I mean, like, you spend time around Liberty, and like, yes, there are some MAGA kids at Liberty. But most of the kids you spend time with  at Liberty, including those who would self-identify as like, sure I guess on paper, I would be a Republican, because of abortion because of other issues, they will really eloquently and gracefully speak to these schisms. And they're so perceptive. I think that's the big thing, Julie, is that they can see it. Right? My generation, I kind of think of us as like the children of the Moral Majority. And we can now very clearly diagnose this in a way that my dad's generation probably couldn't, they were too close to it. They were too wrapped up in it. And I think, you know, in some ways, they almost I kind of tend to maybe just give them a little bit of a pass for that because they didn't have the appropriate distance to really assess it and analyze it in the way that I think I'm able to, and certainly in the way that the generations behind me are able to. They see what this is doing to the church, and they are saying no, thank you. Even at my home church, the guy who took over for my dad, almost run out of the place. He came very close to just quitting because it got so bad for him because he hears this young guy taking over this, this mega church congregation in a very conservative Republican community. And he's not particularly a conservative Republican. He's not like some big Democrat either. He's just a guy who like loves Jesus and who processes news events through the eyes of like the gospel, right? What's so interesting is that he lost a ton of his congregation. And then this past summer, I went back for the first time since my dad's funeral, and the place was packed, and I didn't recognize anybody there. And he comes out and gives this sort of fire and brimstone sermon, challenging them on the culture wars, challenging them on like, where are your priorities, really? What kingdom do you really belong to? And so that actually, I didn't aim to end the book on that optimistic note, but I was so encouraged by it, because it makes me think that in this market of supply and demand that you and I have talked about, and mostly we focused on the perverted nature of the supply and demand, that there is also maybe more demand out there than we realize for that true, pure form of the gospel. And so that is my hope, moving forward, and particularly with these younger Christians, who will demand something better than what we've seen so far. Julie Roys  50:53 I loved that I don't often read the epilogue, but in your book I did. And that was beautiful to read about Pastor Winans and the way that, you know, you kind of left them in the early chapters really disillusioned and discouraged. And then he comes back invigorated for the gospel, and preaching it so boldly and that really, pastors like that give me hope. And I know that there's probably a lot more of them than I encounter in you know, the line of work that I do, which usually means I hear about the worst of the worst all the time. Julie Roys  51:28 Let me just ask you about this most of your chapters are about political power and about the way that these kingdoms  and the power has sort of become an idolatrous thing. And then you turn your eye to corruption going on in the church and the abuse, the abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, how that's been addressed recently, how Rachel den Hollander stood up to it and she went, you know, most people I'm sure listening know Rachel's story. But you know, one of the first gymnasts who came forward and told her story about Larry Nasser, and how he had abused so much of the, you know, US Olympic gymnasts team. And she went from being just Joan of Arc, I think you call it to being Jezebel, right? Or from Esther to Jezebel, because she spoke out about the evil in the church. And that's what I found. When I was at Moody Radio I was allowed to speak about Joel Osteen, right? Or I was allowed to speak about the liberals in politics. But when I turned my critique on our own tribe, man, I would get shut down, you know. That's one of the reasons I left Moody besides the others that I talked about. I couldn't speak out about the evil in our own house. And I feel that at this point, we have no moral platform as Christians to be speaking about the evil out in the world anymore, until we deal with the evil in our own house and the way that it's crept in. You know, judgment begins with the house of God. He doesn't expect, you know, the people who don't know him, to act any differently than they're acting, but He expects us to, and we're not. So, I appreciated that you put this chapter in the book, dealing with some of the abuse and the corruption within the church. But you could have easily left it out and just talked about the way that politics has, you know, really usurped the gospel. Why did you put this chapter in? TIM ALBERTA  53:28 One of the things that really bugs me, is how the New Testament model here and you were just alluding to this a moment ago. The New Testament model is not ambiguous. We are to treat outsiders with unlimited grace and kindness and compassion and forgiveness, because they don't know God, and they don't know any better. That is clear. And what is also clear is that we are to treat the insiders with the utmost accountability, and they are to be held to the highest standard because they do know God, and they do know better. That is the New Testament model. And we in the American church have completely flipped it. We have nothing but hostility, and animus and enmity towards the outside world. And we practice nothing but grace and forgiveness and cheap grace and cheap forgiveness inside the church. Right? And it drives me a little bit nuts. Because if you are the person out there in the world, who is sort of curious about Jesus, and you feel something missing in your life, what are the odds today that you're going to go to a local church and try to learn a little bit more? I mean, you know, you might say, Well, some people will, some people do Sure. But the statistics here don't lie, Julie. Like when you look back 30 or 40 years, the perception of the church among unbelievers in this country was incredibly positive. People who did not know Jesus looked at the church as a beacon of moral rectitude, of compassion, of social good. Even if they were never going to sit in the pews with us, even if they didn't believe any of the doctrine, they respected the church and they admire the church. And that has completely changed. It's just completely fallen apart. There are some people who will tell you like Robert Jeffers and I go back and forth on this in the book, he said, Well, that it doesn't matter, right? Those people aren't looking for the Lord. I completely disagree. I think the credibility of the church matters enormously. TIM ALBERTA  55:37 To your question of why did I feel compelled to include that chapter? Well, who's going to hold the church accountable? Is the church going to hold itself accountable? No, I mean, typically, institutions are not very good at self-policing. We know that from working in journalism, right? By the way, the media is not very good at self-policing. Actually, I could argue the media is terrible at self-policing. I mean, any big institution, it can't be expected to hold itself accountable. Okay, so what are the mechanisms for accountability here? If we care about the Bride of Christ, if we care about the credibility of the church, if we care about how the outside world perceives the church, which I think matters enormously, then what do we do to ensure that the church is on the up and up and is doing its duty before God and it's carrying out its purpose and its mission? You know, journalism has to play a role in that. I think, you know, the law has to play a role in that. I think that there are external forces, even, you know, gasp secular forces that have to play a role in that, because otherwise, we just leave these churches, these pastors to their own devices. And I'm sorry, but you don't need to read any other source then the Bible itself. You pick up the Bible itself, read from Old Testament to new and see how well that works out. We see it time and again. I there are not accountability structures in place, then things go very badly, very quickly. And so that's a long answer to your question. Julie Roys  57:06 Hmm. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your book. And I know you're getting interviews all over the country. I saw you on CBS, Good Morning America; that was so exciting to see but really wonderful that you've gotten this platform to winsomely speak to the rest of society who I remember a couple of times, I got to be on NPR. They would ask me about evangelicalism, and they are always amazed, I think that I could even string two sentences together. And I was actually an evangelical right? But I am so thrilled that you are representing evangelicals because you're a face that and I don't know, do you still identify as Evangelical? TIM ALBERTA  57:49 not really, I don't fight the label, but I would not volunteer it for myself just because of exactly what we just described, you know. Somebody outside the church hears it, and they quickly shut down the conversation, because they don't really want anything to do with you. Julie Roys  58:01 I don't know if I would take that term, either. I'm kind of where you are, as well. But you're a Christian, and you love Jesus. And even when I heard you in that one interview recently said, How's your faith? and you're like, it's as strong as it's ever been. I thank you for that and for your witness, and for this book, and for giving me so much of your time. I really appreciate it. So, thank you, TIM ALBERTA  58:21 Thank you for all that you're doing. And thank you for saying that. It's very kind of you. We're ultimately playing some small part here in trying to get this thing back on track and doing it as humbly as possible. I hope that we can make a difference. Thank you for having me on. And I know that we'll continue to talk. Julie Roys  58:39 Absolutely. And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And just a quick reminder, if you'd like a copy of Tim Alberta's book, The Kingdome, The Power, and The Glory, we'd be happy to send you one for a gift of $50 or more to The Roys Report this month. Again, we don't have any large donors or advertising, we simply have you, the people who care about exposing evil and restoring the church. So, if you'd like to support our work and get Tim's book, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, I want to let you know that next week, I'll be releasing another talk from the RESTORE conference. This one is by veteran church planter Lance Ford, who gave an amazing talk on the Christian addiction to leadership and why it's so toxic. I love this talk and I think you will too. So be watching for that. We'll release the talk as both an audio podcast and as a video at my YouTube channel. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media. So, more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

About Ashton Rodenhiser Ashton Rodenhiser is a creative entrepreneur passionate about spreading the concept that drawing can be used as a thinking tool. Anyone, whether they are students or boardroom executives, can benefit from visual note-taking. Even if you feel like you can't draw, it's possible to learn basic drawing elements to help you benefit from drawing your notes. There are studies that support visually capturing notes can lead to improved recall and retention and can help you focus and connect deeper with information http://www.mindseyecreative.ca/ https://sketchnote.school/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- About Chris Lautenslager The Prosperity Loop is an organizational model for building a virtuous, ongoing loop of shared organizational success. It is an inclusive, self-sustaining formula that encourages common purpose, cooperation, value creation, shared rewards and open communication throughout the organization. It recognizes that positive change starts with you, right now. The model is centered in achieving collective prosperity. This fundamental organizational redefinition addresses the cries for change that foster societal solutions to a more balanced life, business and community for business entrepreneurs, CEO's and their employees. The Prosperity Loop is the first of a larger series of movements to come from the GET LOOPED organization. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ When It Work Podcast https://getoffthedamnphone.com/podcast 00:00:00 Chris Lautenslager And Ashton Rodenhiser Pronunciations 00:00:25 Jeopardy Clue Jack The Dripper 00:01:57 Clue Jackson Pollock, Jim Carrey, Apollo 3 00:03:35 Bishops Or Cardinals? 00:03:47 Warnings Dont Take Points Off Stay Positive 00:03:59 300 For Catholic Stuff 00:04:25 Parish Priests Have Their Own Robe, Patron Saint 00:05:20 New Design Necessity Invention 00:05:54 Rome Landmark 620 footlong, 513 wide 00:06:35 Fast Sports Related Trivia 00:08:27 Insignia Correct, Chris Not In Military 00:09:13 Infinitive, Capiche, Title Nine, Baseball Game, Hitchcock 00:10:34 Travel To Easter Island, The Worlds Most Remote Airport 00:11:01 Easter Island Islanders Specialty 00:11:17 Travel For 400 00:12:15 Control Easter, Leroy, James Brown, Samuel L Jackson 00:13:02 Dutch Master Rembrandts Ears Chopped Off 00:13:44 Rembrandt, Vermeer, Aquarelle, Fossilized Resin, Traffic Lights 00:15:48 500 Points Native Canadian Broadcaster Paul Apaks Production 00:17:06 200 Points, Title Nine For 300 00:17:32 Mickey Roll, Kathleen, And Pavarotti 00:18:59 Martin Scorseses First Name, Middle Name Correct 00:20:13 Madonna Iconic Singer From The 80s 00:20:49 Mary Mastersons Scottish Middle Name 00:21:22 Book Summary Jd Salingers Catcher In The Rye 00:22:18 Artist 400 Andre Brayton, Surrealist 00:23:24 American Impressionist Mary Cassett, Model For Degas At The Milleners 00:23:49 Chris Wins Game, Discusses Prosperity Loop 00:25:29 Get Looped Small Business Appreciation Movement 00:29:02 Professional Speaker, Value Identification Process For Small Businesses 00:29:40 Chriss Ideal Small Business Event 00:29:58 Fun With Ashton, Creative Entrepreneur, Great Jeopardy Player 00:30:15 Chriss Mission Helping People Build Connections 00:33:10 Doodles Boost Memory, Engage Brain, Feed Instant Gratification 00:35:36 Graphic Facilitation For Learning And Growth 00:37:46 Diverse Client Base 00:38:31 Learning Diverse Industries Keeps Creativity Strong 00:39:02 Conclusion Thank You, Thank You!

Brittany Coleman started selling ToughCutie merino wool technical, performance socks in 2022. Six months into selling, ToughCutie had contracts with REI, Public Lands, Title Nine and more retailers. Coleman belongs to a small community, an estimated 1% of founders in the outdoor industry who identify as a person of color. ToughCutie is the first and only outdoor sock brand with a majority women-owned value chain and this business structure of prioritizing women vendors to create financial agency for women entrepreneurs is a reflection of Coleman's past. In this episode, we get into all the ups and downs of startup life, navigating loneliness, whether or not you should try to do everything yourself, and if a business degree helps or hurts when starting a small business. Follow us on Instagram:@business.of.fitness @feisty_media @mollyjhurford Feisty Media Website:https://livefeisty.com/

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices from the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Brian Medina, the director of Bias Incident Support Services at the University of Maryland, College Park, for a conversation on transitions in Student Affairs. Brian, an openly queer genderqueer and Latinx sexual assault survivor with multiple disabilities, discusses zir journey and experiences. Brian started zir career in student affairs in resident life and student conduct, eventually transitioning into the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) space. They emphasize the importance of authenticity and finding one's true self in the workplace, highlighting the role of supportive colleagues and institutions in this process. They also share zir experience of transitioning in terms of gender presentation, including using gender-neutral pronouns (zee/zir) and embracing a more authentic self, both personally and professionally. Brian's journey has been marked by self-discovery, self-acceptance, and gaining the confidence to bring zir full self to work, which has been transformative. Brian discusses the evolving landscape of bias response work in higher education and its intersection with Title IX regulations. They emphasize the importance of building solidarity across different identities and experiencing intersectionality in tackling power-based violence. The conversation also touches on the regional differences in student affairs work and the impact of state legislation on diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts in higher education. Brian reflects on zir transition from a career in residence life to DEI work, highlighting the challenges and successes along the way. They acknowledge the frustrations of job searching and the importance of resilience in navigating the field. As co-chair elect of the NASPA Gender and Sexuality Knowledge Community (KC), Brian talks about the KC's activities and its commitment to expanding its reach by collaborating with other KCs, fostering inclusivity, and encouraging involvement from a diverse range of professionals in the field. Brian wraps up the conversation by encouraging listeners to embrace transitions as part of life's journey and to remember the resilience and progress made by previous generations in creating a more inclusive world. Overall, this episode explores the theme of transitions in higher education, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, self-discovery, and solidarity in the field of student affairs. It also highlights the evolving nature of diversity, equity, and inclusion work and the significance of regional context in higher education. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field host on today's episode of Essay Voices, I'm pleased to bring you a delightful conversation with Brian Medina. Pronouns z here. Hears. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:31]: Brian has been a social justice activist within higher education for nearly two decades. Brian has worked in New Hampshire, Maryland, Ohio, and is now the director of Bias Incident Support Services at the University of Maryland, College Park. As an openly queer genderqueer and Latinx sexual assault survivor with multiple disabilities, zee advocates for marginalized communities to center those harmed by systemic oppression and trauma. Brian is also the co chair elect of the NASPA gender and sexuality knowledge community. Brian. Welcome to the pod. Brian Medina [00:01:04]: Thank you. Lovely to be with you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:06]: I'm so glad to talk to you today about your transition story. When we reached out to the KC leaders in NASPA, your response was one of the ones that immediately stood out because you've had so many experiences with transition in the last couple of years and we always love to start by getting to know our guests. You're at UMD now you're also leading in the KC space. So what was your come up both in the student affairs realm as well as in the KC realm? Brian Medina [00:01:31]: Thank you for asking. Brian Medina z here and heres and coming up through resident life and student conduct and then also now being in the De I space, the last three years have certainly been a journey. I wouldn't have said if you asked me when I first started my career where I would end up. This would be where it would be. And I'm so grateful and delighted that I can be in this space, particularly, actually, in some ways, very connected, the KC space. I started out with the gender and sexuality casey, different name at the time. And then have been involved with multiple other tam KC. Menamasculinities KC. Brian Medina [00:02:06]: And trying to really see the kind of connectedness of not just the work that I do, but my full existence and my dignity and an authentic self, not just at work, but beyond as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:38]: One thing you just introduced really resonates with me, which is how do you find your authentic self and feel like you can show up with your whole being at work every day? You mentioned your pronouns are z here, hears. And then also when you reached out to us, you let us know you've had some transitions in your gender presentation in the last couple of years. So I'm wondering if you're willing to tell us about how that impacted your ability to show up at work finally as your whole self and also what you want the profession to know about supporting other professionals who are going through that transition. Brian Medina [00:03:07]: It's a wonderful question. Thank you. For me, over the past decade or more, I have been out as genderqueer. I've been using these pronouns z here and heres for about eight of those years. And I will say that it's been mostly in the last three, three and a half years. Although, obviously, that's overlapping with our COVID existence. That being in space, certainly virtually, but in physical space with folks to explore a bit about, my body to check in with and fortunately, with my university, my supervisor, my colleagues. Have been so supportive and really showing up for me and alongside me in zir own authentic selves, thus giving me in some way, some invitation and welcoming space. Brian Medina [00:03:46]: So, yeah, the last couple of years have certainly been an exploration of I'm extending myself with I wear dresses now exclusively. And I wouldn't have said that four or five years ago, wearing dangly earrings, as I have on right now, and I wouldn't have said that a few years ago. And for me, it has been a combination of both the opportunity and the kind of welcoming space that I have at my current institution. But I will say that some of it has come more internally of feeling confident to be able to bring my full self and share and support various populations on campus in a different way. And it has been the best part of my life over these last couple of years, for sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:20]: Part of our theme of transitions on this season of the Pod is really thinking about transitions from all perspectives. And you are really our first guest who's come on this season to talk about that internal transition as the biggest driver for other areas of success. So let's hear more about what that internal transition has done for you in terms of your professional development internally. Brian Medina [00:04:42]: I think another factor that I want to make mention here is that I'm also a student in the School of Social Work at the University of Maryland, Baltimore, and that has coincided a good bit with my work related activities and certainly my responsibilities. I'm in charge of all bias response for the entire campus. And I will say that showing up in classroom settings, in one sense, showing up in work settings has caused me to reflect right, not just on an intellectual basis, but a true connection with my body, checking in with other folks and how they're feeling in space as we talk about marginalization writ large. And so that internal processing for me has been ongoing, for sure it has been over decades. But I will say the last couple of years I've had the encouragement and the kind of exploration also with a really good therapist and some good friends who've checked in on me and kind of allowed me that space to be able to express myself and therefore I'm much more readily interested and be able to explore that with them as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:36]: I think the work you're doing at UMD is really difficult work. Right. You're looking into all areas of bias, and we've seen a lot of transition in the way that we're managing our university and institutional responses to that work in the last couple of years. And we're also expecting a major Title IX rule drop to change and rock our worlds one more time. I'm really crossing my fingers. It's the last time that doed makes that happen. But can you talk about your transitions in that space as well, given the way we talk about bias and response to bias now is just really different than even the way we would have framed it in 2013. Brian Medina [00:06:10]: Yeah, my first inclination and thinking is as you're referencing the regulations coming out for Title Nine soon, and in 2011 when I first really started doing work around sexual misconduct and sexual response, sexual assault response, that was kind of on the earlier days of me even coming out as a survivor of sexual violence. And so thinking about that transition coming out in a different lens than it would be in a queer space, and then kind of maybe a couple of years later sharing about my gender identity and sexual orientation as well, I think they really combined. And it was at a time and place, I think, in our society where there was a lot of momentum and drive to make change, but also maybe a lot of confusion as to what that meant. We got this guidance, but what does that apply? How do we actually launch programs and offices and Title IX offices? And even for De and I spaces, many offices didn't see the interrelationship of power based violence, sexual violence, as well as how that affected queer folks, BIPOC folks very uniquely. So, I will say over these last couple of years in that space, specifically in this kind of back and forth. Back and forth because of administrations and certainly across the country, many states who are enacting legislation to harm a whole host of populations, including trans folks. I will say that I think the center of mine for me has been building solidarity across difference rather than this simply being a movement inside one's identity, but across identities, folks that experience similar harms. So I'll use the comparison with sexual violence work. Brian Medina [00:07:43]: Being a survivor, I've actually been a volunteer for the largest national group, reign as a sexual violence hotline. I've been a volunteer for eleven years there, and that work and supporting survivors uniquely on a hotline like that has been so instrumental for me to be able to hold space, provide space, resources, checking in with folks who are experiencing other identity based harms like anti blackness, like anti trans sentiment on our campuses. So I see them as very much connected as how we address trauma by holding space and support for folks uniquely in zir identities, but also seeing that we are more full amongst one another rather than just in ourselves. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:24]: You've transitioned also all over the country. You've been in the Midwest and the East Coast and a couple of other places. Do you see the work shifting its orientation or its priorities as you move around the country? Brian Medina [00:08:36]: Absolutely. And I think that many of my peers and friends in the field would acknowledge that depending on what state you're in or region of the country you're in, not only does the state legislation afford or deny you opportunities, and access within your identities and your existence. It also kind of more broadly provides either a chilling effect or an emboldening effect for folks to make change, to do programmatic risks that maybe they wouldn't have taken some other spaces. So I'll note a couple of pieces. When I first started off in resident life, it was up in New Hampshire, a very white space, but also progressive in some areas around sustainability, not so much around racial justice. And so I really entangled that because most of our students of color were student athletes and trying to navigate how to support students uniquely in zir identities but also seeing the friction that they're finding in the community was very much top of mind. And that actually aligned very similarly to my experience in Ohio in a very rural white space. Whereas in Maryland, being a much more perceivably progressive state, I found a much different experience where folks were much more open, interested in gaining resources and also promoting a bit more progressive ideals to support marginalized populations than I had in the other spaces. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:49]: That must really shift where you put energy in terms of training for your campus community and also how you're able to frame responses. So with that all kind of put together, what is the common thread between all of those experiences? Brian Medina [00:10:05]: I don't know if I can pull out one specific common thread. One of the things that I came to find early on in the career. Granted, I was in resident life spaces and so I was often doing social justice or de. And I work on the side either for RA trainings or for recruitments, doing programming, advising on the side from what folks perceived as a generalist position that I had to do many other things. And I'd say that that common thread of showing empathy, compassion, concern for the other. I was also a philosophy major, so I should share that from the share there from the get go that as a philosophy major I was always intuiting and thinking through and processing and reflecting. And now as a social work student, kind of that common thread around psychology and caring for full well being, if there is a common thread, it really is seeing the fullness of one of many of society as interconnected and there be no way for us to completely disconnect that from one another. And so in these various career points I would say that De I and social justice was a common thread, even if it wasn't my actual position, responsibility. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:10]: Societal structures and pressures are fairly consistent within the culture of the United States. They can be similar to neighboring countries. I can tell you from my own experience living in Asia now our structures around justice and our concepts around justice, marginalization, oppression, they don't apply at all here. It's the wildest thing to break my brain in that way and to stop looking at certain situations through my Americanized justice perspective has been a real interesting challenge. And I've come to the conclusion that dei work is so important in the US. Because of the structures of the way the organizational kind of hierarchies are created in the US. And then when I got here, it was like square pay, ground hole. Some of the concepts are similar in terms of wealth, wealth gap and things like that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:55]: But the idea of race is different here because it is kind of a fairly monoracial society. Ethnicity plays a much larger role. Individual achievement stands out even though it's a collectivist society. It's so fascinating. So it's interesting to hear you talk about it from that lens as well. I wanted to hear more about your transition from a res life professional to deib professional. More or less that res life space is one you occupied for 15 years, and a lot of times it can be both difficult from a job search perspective and difficult from an emotional perspective to leave res life and to go into other areas of higher education. So tell us about that. Brian Medina [00:12:31]: I appreciate this invitation and in all vulnerability and honesty, that road was filled with potholes and filled with roadblocks and filled with turns and detours. If you would have asked me when I first started my career if I would have been in res life for 15 years, I would have said absolutely not. That didn't make any sense, there's no way. But as I continued to grow in that, being on call was always a challenge. But I will say that I adapted to it. Different institutional structures. Being going from a smaller private liberal arts college in New Hampshire to then a more mid sized institution of Towson University in Maryland allowed me, I think, a different perspective because there's a much different resourced institution, public institution. I will say that part of my journey, because of thinking about this and around going to De I work specifically at Towson. Brian Medina [00:13:20]: That was where I came out in a lot of settings. That's where I found student groups that even though I wasn't a student, I was advising a couple of student groups within the queer community. I was attending social justice retreats and then helping to facilitate them. And so I think that even though I was very heavily as a position as a resident life director, being in Res Life, I was very much tapped into the ethos and the mores of deib in a way that I don't think most of my peers had access to. And that was a privilege that I had, but also something I sought after. Folks had kind of encouraged me and mentored me. I will say, as I continued through my Res Life career going on to be Assistant Director, then Director, associate Dean in Res Life, each of those elements of social justice had a ring to it, but it was mostly in those other institutions because they were smaller. Me bringing it to those institutions rather than me learning as I had at Towson and now being at University of Maryland, being the largest state school in the state, being at a place know, recently give them a little bit of props, they recently were named number one for LGBT students. Brian Medina [00:14:18]: Acceptance across the country from the Campus Pride Index. To see that there's not only an acceptance and embrace about who I am and my fullness, but also that students can get that experience also brings me joy. So I'll say that some of that transition from Res Life to Edib was organic in its own. And if I were to admit to you, I applied to many Res Life jobs to be a senior leader within ResLife and got turned down. And so there's much about failure as it was success throughout the process. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:49]: That's a really important message in that job search transition. There are so many reasons that maybe the universe is pointing us in some directions sometimes, and other times it's just really, really frustrating. So I just want to give a shout out to all of you who are trying to make that next move up in the student affairs funnel. It is a real, real challenge when you're moving from that mid level professional and that assistant and associate director to that director space, because that funnel gets really, really tight at that level of organization. So I just want to cheer you on a little bit and let you know that I empathize. I understand. Brian Medina [00:15:18]: And you got this agreed. We can do this together. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]: I want to chat a little bit about the gender and sexuality. Casey, you're currently occupying a co chair seat. Can you tell us more about the hopes for this year's KC activities, what spaces you're providing, and really how listeners and NAFA members can also find authentic space for themselves in the KC? Brian Medina [00:15:41]: I would certainly shout out to Antonio and Clint, our current KC chairs. I'm actually the chair elect. I'll be taking on this starting in March. But a lot of those responsibilities we've been sharing throughout this year as a know, as a small group that have really cared for one another, not just in terms of the tasks that we do for conferences and programs and receptions that is all important, but really holding space for each other throughout the year. When something is tragic on one campus, it's tragic for the rest of us as well and also uplifting. So going back to the job search process, when we see folks promoted or getting new positions, we also hold folks in that celebration and joy. One of the things that I'm really looking forward to in the gender and sexuality Casey is the expansion for us to connect with other KCS in collaborations. So the last few KC chair rotations have been a building up of that of building relationships with the Latinx Aokc, indigenous peoples, KC Wisa, women XKC, and to be able to see us as a gender sexuality KC be as kind of a point to various intersectional identities. Brian Medina [00:16:43]: To hold space within the KC, but also across NASPA and different other KC spaces has been a joy. I anticipate even more so as the years to come. So that's one of the target interests that I have. So folks listening out there want to get involved and they're eh this KC may be all one identity or maybe kind of stereotypically all gay white men. It is very much not at this point and certainly won't be in the future. We're recruiting a lot of folks and we'd love to have you as a part of that revolution toward more broadening of queerness. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:12]: You also did an Essay Speaks very recently. Can you tell us, especially for those who are unfamiliar first, what is Essay speaks and how can folks find your conversation? Brian Medina [00:17:22]: Essay Speaks starting with what it is. It really is equivalent to what a Ted Talk would look like. So it's a ten to twelve minute talk. It's an opportunity for presenters. Rather than sharing kind of research or anything like that, it's really integrating our stories of who we are alongside kind of takeaways for audience members. And this is at the annual conference itself. So this past year in Boston and April I did share that from the topic of embodying gender fluidity, which in some ways is very relevant to the topic we're talking about in transition. I shared a bit of my journey over the course of my career and how I presented myself in my gender, how my gender fluidity and gender queerness have shown up in workspaces, but also other spaces given interest to anybody in the audience, those that are listening. Brian Medina [00:18:05]: And the video is out there if you want to check it out. NASPA has that available for folks to explore on zir own campuses, where they can advocate alongside zir trans non binary colleagues and students seeking some opportunities for healing. But also some joy along the ride. So I really encourage, if folks want to check that out, please do. So. Going into just sharing about that experience, jill and I shared off script a little bit about how different, how so much goes beyond the production and so much goes into the planning of this was a nine month planning cycle of creating a twelve minute sharing of one soul and heart. And so for me, it was a lot of work. I also have multiple disabilities, but one disability impacts my speaking when I'm public speaking. Brian Medina [00:18:47]: And so for me to put myself out there on the stage with hundreds watching, other thousands perhaps watching at home at some point was super nerve wracking, especially when a lot of complications happen last minute. So I just want to firm for those folks out in the audience that may be fearful to do these kind of speaking engagements. I am with you. I was there, and I certainly encourage you if you would like to have another support as you're exploring this opportunity to tell your story and who you are in your fullness. I would love to be there alongside you for that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:16]: Brian, any other thoughts on the theme of transitions in higher ed or for yourself as a human? Brian Medina [00:19:22]: I guess I'd love to share a little bit about how transitions, fluidity, as I just was talking about gender, fluidity transitions are happening all the time, right? We talk about transitions for our students coming in and off campus, graduating and going off about zir lives, transitions for us in the job market, transitions as I shared about gender and understanding how I present myself. But I want to encourage so much of our talk about transitions, talk about the tense, the tenseness and kind of feeling of anxiety that is present there. It's the fear, and some of it rightfully so because of our world and how much we can be harmed in that transition and showing who we are. But I also never want to forget how much we are taking upon our ancestors to get to where we are today. The transition of a more human wide transition to be in a place and space where I can be who I am and be present even on this podcast with you and alongside you is dedicated to many of those folks well before me, marcia P. Johnson, Silvio Revellitrera, who could be kind of conduits and revolutionaries in zir own right. I would love to for the next generation to see many folks alongside me, not just me, but to provide transition opportunities and emboldening us to be better and do better for our work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:35]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Christopher Lewis [00:20:41]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world. And as always, there's a ton happening in our association, and I'm really excited to be able to share some of these things with you. One of the first things that I wanted to share with you is that the 18th Manassa NASPA Conference will be hosted by Qatar University April 20 eigth to April 30, 2024. Right now, the call for programs is open, and the conference registration is open, and the early registration is open until January 31. The Manassa NASPA Conference provides student affairs practitioners with the knowledge and skills to effectively address and support college students. Higher education is witnessing a wide array of changes, especially in the era of fast technological evolution. This conference coming up. Christopher Lewis [00:21:36]: The theme of it is Student Affairs changes and Challenges in the Era of Emerging Technologies. It's a three day conference put on by NASPA and the Middle East, North Africa and South Asia or Manassa area. This is an opportunity to connect with colleagues both regionally and abroad, and the conference provides you with a space for discussing innovative ideas, adaptive approaches, use of technology, best practices, lessons learned, and provide tools to understand the next generation of student affairs. Definitely want to take advantage of the early registration rates that are open right now, and if your campus is in the Manassa region and would love to be considered for the 2025 Manassa NASPA Conference, the bid for that conference is currently open as well. You can find out more about this conference on the NASPA website and the bid for the 2025 hosting of the conference. Deadline for that is on February 15, 2024. You can find the Manassa NASPA Conference campus host Bid, the secure platform on the NASPA website. You can put in a bid right there to be able to be considered. Christopher Lewis [00:22:59]: The Fall 2023 Leadership Exchange magazine has been sent out. If you didn't see the email or haven't checked it out yet, I really encourage you to check it out. The theme of this issue is consolidation. Fosters collaboration. Advancing student success at a newly integrated institution. Inside of this issue, you're going to see a ton of great articles that are tailored to Vice Presidents for Student Affairs and other leaders in Student Affairs administration. Even if you're not at that level, I still encourage you to read the articles in this. They will challenge you, they'll push you, and they will encourage you to think about things in a different way. Christopher Lewis [00:23:40]: Also inside of this issue, you're going to find conversations about the college mental health cris. Also, you'll be able to learn what it's like to be a Vice President for Student Affairs through the lens of four new VPSAs and also thinking about holistic advising approaches to student success. This and more are a part of this Leadership Exchange, and I really encourage you to go and check it out for yourself. Go to the NASPA website, click on Publications, and go to the Leadership Exchange magazine. Christopher Lewis [00:24:13]: We're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Christopher Lewis [00:25:33]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:37]: Another fantastic NASPA World segment. Producer Chris, we continue to appreciate you and all of your work to keep us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Brian, we have reached our lightning round. I have seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. Ready to do it? Brian Medina [00:25:52]: I love it. Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:53]: All right. Number one, if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Brian Medina [00:25:58]: The entrance music that I already use. Crawling by Lincoln Park. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Brian Medina [00:26:05]: I wanted to be a soccer star. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:07]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Brian Medina [00:26:10]: My former supervisor, Brenda Ice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:12]: Number four, your essential student affairs. Read. Brian Medina [00:26:16]: Student affairs must read. I would have to say cast by Isabel Wilkerson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:22]: Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Brian Medina [00:26:25]: I have to admit that I haven't been watching many full shows lately, but I am a sucker for any historical docuseries, so please send your recommendations. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:34]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Brian Medina [00:26:39]: While I clearly love the SA Voices podcast, I also want to give a shout out to a friend of mine, Tracy Guy Decker, who recently developed a podcast called Deep Thoughts about Stupid Stuff but replaced the word stuff with something we're not allowed to say on the air. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]: And finally, number seven, any shoutouts you'd like to give, personal or professional? Brian Medina [00:26:58]: Always love to give shout outs to my peers and friends in the gender, sexuality, casey and other Casey's, and certainly. To my partner for continuing to hold space for me as I have shared my fullness on this podcast and beyond. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:10]: Ryan, I'm sure there are many listeners who would love to chat with you after the show airs. How can they find you? Brian Medina [00:27:15]: I'm less on social media. I would love to hear. If you'd like to send a long letter, send it snail mail or you can send an email at bamadina at. Umd.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:28]: Ryan, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you. I always love getting to know other leaders in NASPA. There's so many of us, we don't always get to connect. So I want to say thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Brian Medina [00:27:38]: Thank you so much, Jill. It's been a pleasure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:41]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:10]: And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible role in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:29]: Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are discussing "She's the Man," a 2006 film starring Amanda Bynes and Channing Tatum. Did you know this movie is based on the Shakespeare's play "Twelfth Night?" This is arguably one of Amanda Bynes' best performances. She is hilarious, captivating and witty. We discuss gender identity and sexuality at great lengths in this episode. Dr. Furey provides us with some medical facts about sex organs and we talk about where a person can fall on the gender expression spectrum. You don't want to miss this one, we hope you enjoy! Instagram Tik Tok Website Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM five, and enjoy. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. We are so excited to be covering the movie she's the man, which came out in 2006 and starred Amanda Bynes and Channing Tatum. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Whoa. I'd never seen this movie before. It's almost 20 years old. Isn't that crazy to think about? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I've seen it many times. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's interesting. Yeah. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, loved it. One of my favorite movies from, like, teenhood. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Nice. I think this is, again, where I feel really old, but that's okay. So, this movie was based on a play by Shakespeare the 12th night. Right. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I didn't know that until I did research for this podcast episode. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Because we're professional. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Because we want to plan things out. But apparently it's based on the Shakespeare's play, and it's about even by name. Viola and her twin brother Sebastian, they're shipwrecked. They believe that each other drowned. So Viola disguises herself as a young man in order to get a job as a servant for Duke, the Duke of what is it? Or Sino. And it's, like, funny because Duke is played by Tatum. So I had no idea that there were all these references to this. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right, right. And I think it's just interesting. Right. Like, a girl dressing up as a boy, how that has been in culture and society forever. Right. Really interesting to talk about this movie now, just, again, in the political climate of today and everything going on in terms of gender identity. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So we see. Amanda Bynes did a lot of work at this time in some other movies that I absolutely loved. One of them, she goes to, I think, like, England or something to find her long last dad, and then she's absolutely a gem. So she was 20 when this was filmed. Channing Tatum was 26, which I think. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Is we always kind of laugh at. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: People who play high school role. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. They were totally in high school. Yeah. And he was 26. Yeah. It was funny to see Channing Tatum as, like, a youngster and just be like, he really bulked up for magic Mike. Yeah. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: This was even pre, like, the dance movies, not magic. Step up. Step. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yep. And I did find it hard to watch. I'll be Amanda Bynes, like, in her quote unquote prime, given what we sort of have seen happen to her. And again, we're not here to offer any thoughts about someone's personal mental health issues, but I think, Portia, you were pointing out that she's 20 years old in this movie, and around age 24, things started to change for her, which we do see in terms of when women tend to develop significant mental health issues. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And something that I learned more recently as well is that Amanda Bynes actually really lobbied to have Channing Tatum in this role. And it was his first role where he was like a main character. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think I did read that somewhere. I think you recently said that or was giving an interview about that, how we really appreciated that. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, so that was sweet. And then we have some other cast members who I thought most notably Daphne, who plays Viola, and Sebastian's mom, played by Julie Hagerty, was also the mom and wife in what about Bob? Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And she kind of played the same kind of like a loop, stitzy, disconnected character. I thought it was really funny. The whole thread of the debutante ball is that something that happens up here in the Northeast. So growing up in the south, this is like a thing. And it seemed know, I believe, like, debutante balls back in the day were for maybe even still presently. Like, I remember a couple years ago, reese Witherspoon's daughter was like, in a debutante ball, it's supposed to be like the way high society girls are introduced to society and maybe meet a suitor. Interestingly. Just yesterday I saw a New York Times article about debutante balls or like, debutante societies, but in an African American community, I believe in Detroit or somewhere in Michigan, and how those women really appreciate the balls because it helps them find mentors. So it's interesting because I always thought it was like to find a husband, but it sounds like at least in this community, it shifted a bit to find mentors, which I thought was really positive growing up in the south. I did go to something called Catillion. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Okay. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Have you heard of what that is? Which they sort of depicted, like, when Amanda Bynes'character is coming in and they're all eating on china and stuff like that. I just remember I had to wear these white gloves and learn how to handshake and how to curtsy. And we had homework assignments in between the sessions where you'd have to shake certain people's hands and they'd have to sign off and you had to learn all these fancy dances like the foxtrot. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, that's exactly what I envisioned it being. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, I hated it. I remember I used to pretend to have stomach aches so I wouldn't have to go. And then the final dance, you're supposed to dance with all these boys and it was like in 6th grade or something. I just hated it. So sorry. Mom, if you're listening, I just really didn't love it. But that's sort of spot on depicted, I think, in see. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So it's kind of just the plot is that Amanda, bynes Viola's character, learns that her high school women's soccer team is being cut, but due to low. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Participation numbers and she is really into soccer. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. We see the opening scene. They're playing on the beach. She seems like she has a good relationship with her boyfriend and her friend. He seems supportive in the moment. So they are really upset and they kind of go up to the boys soccer team and they want to play, and the coach is kind of like, laughing. Like, that's absurd. You can't do that. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Can't play with the boys. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly. And so girls aren't fat. Initially, it seems like they're not even going to let them try out, which, per Title IX, if there is not an alternative sport, then they have to be allowed to try out. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Can you explain portia for our listeners what Title IX is? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So Title IX basically is for education systems and kind of guarantees equal treatment. And what we're seeing now is a lot of Title Nine being brought up with gender identification in sports. So basically it guarantees an equal amount of so I'll just speak to it with sports. I know that it's bigger, but it guarantees an equal amount of sports per school. So, for example, if there's six boys sports teams, there has to be six girls sport teams. If there is a 7th sports team, it has to be coed. So, for example, a lot of I'm thinking about in my high school team, like, golf was coed, and then there was like, boys and girls tennis, football, field hockey. So that's the kind of counterpart. But there has to be an equal number. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay. And I think aren't there also, like, I think at colleges and stuff now, they have like, Title IX offices, title Nine coordinators. And I think that's also maybe where you go if you've experienced like a sexual assault or there's some concern about harassment or things like that. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right, yeah. So it prohibited sex based discrimination in any school or education program that receives any funding from the federal government. And it started in 1972. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, I thought it was like, recent. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So they've made amendments to it, I'm sure, over and over since then. But that's when it started. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So this initial school would have been in violation of Title Nine then. Okay, good to know. I thought maybe that came about after in the past 20 years, but I guess not. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Okay, good to know. But so they won't let her sort of try out or play. Her boyfriend is really icky and dismissive about her feelings, so she breaks up with him. Good. And then she has this idea that she's going to dress up like her brother and impersonate him at his school for two weeks so that she can make that male soccer team and kind of beat her boyfriend's team. Yeah, it's Cornwall and Illyria Illyria, which was a funny name, but I bet those stem back to the Shakespeare play, right? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That makes sense, I think. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So that makes a lot more sense. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Because they're kind of OD. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So basically, that's the premise of the movie. And we see Amanda Bynes portray stereotypical gender roles and mannerisms in a comedic way. And she's always been known for her comedic timing and the slapstick nature and the physical comedy. She's always been known for that. So you definitely see that here. But what were your thoughts, Portia, about the way she sort of portrayed masculinity versus femininity? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I think she also let's first remind ourselves that this film was probably made in 2004, right? Came out in 2006. So some of the things that they were even just saying when she's in the shower room with Duke and she's just like, calling Brosif broski G money, a lot of those things are also just like from then. And people did say, you know, it's not that outrageous, but I thought she first of all, which we already said, she is just phenomenal at that kind of humor. And so I think ironically now, looking back, though, she in this role is bringing a lot of gender issues and questions up onto the surface in a really big way. Again, that we did not see. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, and again, using humor, which we think of as a mature defense mechanism to explore really complex, difficult topics, much like we talked about with our Barbie episode, but in a different way. And I'm like, was that intentional or was that like, it just happened. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And they take it even further with you see her because they could have easily just thrown a wig and write the sideburns on and just had her wearing like a tightly fitted sports bra. But you see them like, they take the espinage and they're like binding, which is a pretty common practice if someone's trans and they are trying to have like a flat chest. You see her kind of packing like a filled sock to look like a ***** to use in her pants. And again, that's something that is used. So I thought even that could have easily been left out and I don't think anyone would have noticed. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right, I totally agree. And I thought before we continue, I did just want to give a couple of definitions for our listeners because I think as we start talking about gender dynamics, sexual dynamics, trans, cisgender, like, things like that, it can be really confusing. So, again, I want to just give a couple of standard definitions. So when we use the word sex, like in the medical field, the definition of sex is a biological category based on reproductive, anatomical and genetic characteristics, generally defined as male, female and intersex. So something I hear a lot in the popular press and media is like, you're born a boy or a girl that's it. And actually, that's just not true of the human species and a lot of other species if you look into different animals and things like that. So there are several medical conditions where a child isn't born at birth with what we consider male genitalia or female genitalia. Those things can include things like Kleinfelter syndrome, turner's syndrome, and androgen Insensitivity syndrome. And these are complicated things, and we won't get into all the details, but in those different know, the anatomical chromosomal or gonadal, sex varies in some way from what we would typically call male or female genitalia. So for people who are constantly shouting, like, you're either a boy or a girl, that's just not true. Like, there are humans again, it's rare, but there are humans born who, for example, like their internal organs don't match the external genitalia or vice versa. And so, again, usually at birth, parents are kind of advised, like, you can pick the gender. Now, it might change for some of these conditions. Other times, maybe the parents just maybe especially today, like, don't pick and sort of see what the child chooses. But that can change over the course of a child's life. And sometimes people with these conditions prefer to be called intersex. I think back in the day, we used to call people with these conditions hermaphrodites. And that, I think, can have a really negative connotation attached to it. But I think that is important to just point out that not everyone is just born a boy or a girl. So that is sex. That's medical based on these factors, gender is different from that, right? So when we say gender, that refers to socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society associates with being a woman, man, girl, or boy, as well as relationships with each other as a social construct. Gender varies from society to society and can change over time. I think that's really important that we understand that that's what gender it is. I think we see Amanda bynes'character Viola sort of display that right? And so someone's gender identity is an individual sense of being a man, woman, boy, girl, genderqueer non binary, et cetera. And this doesn't have to be visible to other people. What you see from the outside is what we call gender expression. That's how someone chooses to convey their gender identity through their behavior, clothing, or other external characteristics. And not everyone feels safe to do that. And so I just thought it was important to sort of bring up those topics and give those legitimate definitions to help us as we conceptualize this movie and the effects it's had. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So if we also think about gender kind of being on a spectrum, I think we have either end where you are highly feminine appearing or highly masculine appearing, and then we see kind of people forever, right? Like, kind of being in the middle. Like, that would be a tom boy. So a girl who feels more masculine, maybe plays more with masculine toys. They might be more like, I'm just envisioning a little girl who has braids and overalls and is like playing in the dirt with a monster truck, like. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Roberta from now and then. I don't know if you saw that movie. Oh, my. Again, I'm it's so good. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Portia but I will also add that I think it's always been way more. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Acceptable to be a tomboy than a. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Girl to be more masculine presenting than for a boy to be more feminine presenting. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So, again, we just see there's this really long range of how you present yourself. And I think what's interesting that you just kind of spoke to, though, is it's different in culture to culture, right. So if I'm thinking of, like, we also covered the movie Barbie. If we think about that Barbie feminism, it's like I'm thinking of someone who might be all the way on one of the spectrum who's wearing, like, all pink, driving a pink car and is, like, in this pink role and likes everything that's feminine. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But that's what that culture calls feminine. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly. And another one might be entirely different of they're all the way at that end. Femininity right. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And again, their inner gender identity might not be the same as what they're expressing outside their gender expression. And I think that is where, as people grow up and you start to figure out who are you, really, things can change. And speaking to that in different cultures, again, how gender is such a social construct, I was really interested to learn recently about the concept of two spirit in the Indigenous culture. So Indigenous people I didn't know this before doing a little research before this episode, have kind of always had this concept of two spirit which they sort of define as a person who identifies as having both a masculine and a feminine spirit. And this term is used by some Indigenous people to describe their sexual, gender and or spiritual identity. I thought that was just really interesting. Like, other cultures sort of have lingo to talk about these difficult concepts. And I'm sure it varies from culture to culture, too. Right. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And even, I think as simply as like in, I don't know, I guess American culture, it's like there's some women we could think of it just as this, who don't ever want to wear a dress or a skirt, and they just feel more comfortable always wearing pants or shorts or something like that. And that's such not a big deal. But again, I'd say that is someone who's on a different place of the gender spectrum than someone else who does feel more comfortable or wants to do that because they think of it in a feminine way. So I just think it doesn't have to be that huge. Right. Which I think that's the big kind of conflicts going on. It's like we all land somewhere on it. And I think everyone would be surprised that they're probably not on the end. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right, exactly. Right. Yeah, exactly. And I think like you're saying, how you define masculinity or femininity is really determined by the culture you're growing up in and how you're reacting to that. Right? Yeah. And sometimes I like that example about the dresses or the pants. Just because you like to wear pants, that doesn't mean your gender identity is male. It could not always. Like a lot of women like wearing pants too. It's different. Again, exactly. I think the way you're expressing yourself is different from your gender identity for some people. So given that example, why don't we also define what transgender means? Because that is a term that we use a lot in our American society. It is hot in politics right now. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Also a lot with title nine, specifically in sports. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. That has been everywhere these past few years. So the official definition of transgender is someone who identifies with the gender other than the one that was assigned to them at birth, period. Okay, guys, that's it. It has nothing to do with your genitalia. It has nothing to do with your anatomic, chromosomal, gonadal, sex organs. That is it. It means that the gender you identify with differs from the one you were assigned at birth. There is a lot of discussion, I think, about this term because in some ways it feels outdated or there's some criticisms about it because it sort of implies that there was a point at which someone was cisgendered, which means that your inner gender identity matches the gender you assumed at birth. The word trans in some ways, some people, some critics of that word will say like, implies that you were cisgendered than you became transgendered, I think, which can be really harmful. But it does give us a language to use. So often when someone identifies as a trans man, that would be someone who perhaps or who at birth was assigned a female gender or identified female gender and finds that they identify more with being a man, a trans woman would be the opposite. And a lot of people don't like those terms. And so they might use something more broad like gender non conforming or non binary. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So in the know, we're seeing viola by definition cross dressing. Right. So it's like she is putting on male clothes. She hasn't said anything that she's feeling like she is thinking of having an identity as a man or anything like that. So by a definition, using just like language, that's what she's doing. But in it, it expands this whole question of like well, and again, we're pretending to know her inner thoughts as viola. It's like, is she does she have some thoughts of maybe wanting to identify more with a male persona or does she feel more comfortable that way? Where does this go in the, like I think it's just really interesting because she can still know attracted to Duke, right. That has nothing to do with how you express your gender, but is know kind of throughout the end of the film exploring this, and does it feel good for her and is that something that then she might choose to do? Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right? And I personally don't think so. I don't think Viola is trans. I think that she had a goal in mind. She wanted to play soccer, and that is why she's doing this. It didn't seem like she was having confusion or what we might call gender dysphoria, which is a lot of distress about the gender you feel like you have to express. I didn't get that from her. I got that she just wanted to play soccer, but the whole time felt female. I think you could see that, like when she would slip back into her girl voice or these girl mannerisms and things like that. But I do agree that this film does open that up and it does show someone in adolescence exploring their gender. Now, again, what we know about people who identify as trans or non binary is that this starts really early, just like someone else walking around who identifies as cisgender and they say, like, I've always known I was a girl. These people have always known that this is where they fall. And it's even normal in toddlerhood, right, for boys to wear dresses or girls to pretend to be boys. This is normal as you're trying to figure it out. But then, typically, people who identify as trans keep wanting to if you're born of boy gender, you might want to play with dolls, you might want to dress up. That starts really early and tomboys start. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: To not be enough. Right. This is why it's a spectrum experience. Exactly. So it's like you're kind of portraying a little bit more of a masculine expression and then that's not enough. Right. And you still are having kind of this gender dysphoria. You still feel distress, and then you kind of keep following along the spectrum until you land somewhere that feels good. Sometimes that is with surgery, and other times it's not. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right? And I think it's really important that we also talk about that. These are real things, right? And this type of dysphoria that stems from a mismatch between your inner gender identity and the outer gender expression you've sort of been raised to abide by or is socially acceptable, is really significant. And it's been around forever. Like, this is just a thing. This is real. This has happened. And what we know is that trans youth and trans adults have significantly higher rates of mental health conditions, substance abuse conditions, and suicide compared to people who identify as cisgender. And I think that's really important that we talk about that because studies have shown that 40% 40%, that's almost half of transgender adults have attempted suicide in their lifetime, not just thought about it, but tried it, and that 30% of transgender youth have attempted suicide in the past year, that's huge. Those rates are so significantly higher for any other mental health condition that I can think of. And add to that if these transgender youth, for example, also, I mean, being transgender, you already are facing a lot of stress from being a minority, like in that way. But if you add other intersectional identities to this in terms of race, socioeconomic status, religion, family structure, poverty, like things like that, your rates just go up and up and up and up. And what we have found is that by providing gender affirming care, which again is a spectrum, right, it runs all the way from gender affirming psychotherapy to explore your feelings, to hormonal treatment and puberty, which again can be reversed. There's this big fear like, oh no, we're going to do something that is permanent and we can never fix it. The hormonal therapies basically stop puberty from happening. And so it gives a child who's experiencing this the chance to sit with it and really figure it out. And there are so many guidelines that you have to wait a certain amount of time. Someone has to live in their well, I think that's actually for surgery, but there's a lot of guidelines before you just do that, before you stop puberty. But then if this person sort of changes their mind down the road, which is incredibly rare, but does happen, it is easy to reverse and then sort of start puberty in the gender you were assigned at birth anyway, all the way to gender confirming surgeries, which, again, a lot of rules around qualifying for surgeries like that, at least in our state. You have to live in your gender identity for at least a year. You have to express that outwardly. And then you also have to have psychiatric evaluations and be cleared from a psychiatric standpoint by more than one physician. There's a lot of hoops you have to jump through. And what are your thoughts about that, Portia? Do you think that's helpful or do you think that is kind of further stigmatizing or a barrier? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it really depends on the like I think it can be, I think I guess I'd say as a whole, I don't know. I think it can go either way. I think there's positive experiences where it's just like it is catching people, making a secure choice in something that they've always known. But surgery has risks and I think it's just to really prepare you for that. I guess we're kind of going, I'm going to bring up something totally different. But it's like if an 18 year old female would want to have their tubes tied, right? It's like if a 30 year old is coming to you and want to have their tubes tied, sure be done. But it's like, okay, we need to give you information. Do you know, because I'm actually unsure of permanent for the most part. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think there's some that you can. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Reverse, but yeah, some more permanent options. I think it's just important to educate, write the risks, if this is something that you really want to. So it's thoughtful and I think most of the time, again, it is like it's been years and decades of wanting or not feeling comfortable in the gender you were assigned at birth. So I guess, I don't know. I think in some cases it can be useful just to prepare yourself for a very significant surgery. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Just like any surgery, huge change. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. But I also do think there's absolutely aspects of it that can be super harmful. Like really navigating it with insurance, which I think if you are paying privately, I think it's a much quicker process. Right, so I think that's true. That's always just like something to throw in there, right? Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: True, very true. And also, I think we know that people who identify as trans face so much stigma and violence. Like trans youth, trans adults are so much more likely to be victims of physical violence, assault, murder, things like that, than cisgender people. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Especially when they are presenting a gender and they're not passing. Right. That's the highest risk time for them. So you're asking them to stay in the year. Right. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's the part where I'm like, oh, on the one hand, I get it. It's like you want to make sure you're sure. On the other hand, it really increases I think I don't know this for sure. I don't have the data to back it up, but I worry that it increases their risk of harm coming to them. And there is something just so stigmatizing about the system being like, well, you. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Have to really make sure that you're sure before we help you and offer. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: You this care that's been shown to significantly decrease your risk of suicide. Again, I don't pretend to know all the answers or have a better system option in my mind, but I just think these are really complicated issues. And coming back to the movie, she's the man, we see her kind of dealing with that as she's trying to pass. Portia, can you define what passing means for our listeners? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Sure. So if somebody's passing, that means they appear, I'd say, I don't know, to 99% of people the gender that they're intending to pass as. So if somebody is making a transition from male to female, they look like a female. Like, you would never question it. And I also would just ask people to know that there's a lot of people that you don't know who are 100% passing and you're feeling safe with them. So it's like the people who are not passing yet who are coming in. And I'm thinking this is the big issue to a bathroom where you're still kind of looking like a guy, but you're dressed as. A female. That's where people get really scared and it feels but again, that's where the danger comes for them. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Not 100% you. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's just what the data says. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And again, the data says that people who identify as trans are not sexual deviants or aggressors or pedophiles or things like that. That's just not true. That's like an really unfortunate stigma and bias that just keeps getting perpetuated and. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: All the way know. I think we've seen we see this date back centuries is like people performing, right? Like drag queens are going to shows where people are cross dressing like Shakespeare around forever. The idea that it is this harmful, right? Sexual deviant going to corrupt children is. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Like this new thing ridiculous, right? And again, we see this in other animals too. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I do remember in college, in my animal behavior class with Professor Wasserman, learning about different species where the women would pretend to be men to protect their young and vice versa. So we see this in other species. We've seen this in humanity dating back centuries, like forever. This is just a thing. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yes. So you brought up you before, right? Or was that in another so so getting back to she's the man worth noting that we see Malcolm, who's just kind of like this annoying guy, right, who's trying to figure out what's happening with Viola and Sebastian, like expose her. He is stalking Olivia. Like, he has pillows with her face. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Creepy. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's always trying to talk to her. And I was just just just also keeping in mind, like, yeah, that seems silly in the movie, but it's not. Right. Stalking is the opposite of funny. It's the most terrifying experience. Per again, all the data to go through. So it's just like Malcolm is you're. Gross. Yeah, we don't like you. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But a little bit of stalking we see in this movie and then we see right. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Olivia too. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So Olivia, initially we're introduced to her because Duke really likes her. And then she develops feelings for Sebastian. Sebastian played by Viola. Right. I thought that is so interesting for Olivia. Like, how does she feel knowing that she wanted to kiss and was really into a girl playing a guy, right. And then she ends up being with the real Sebastian. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I know. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I'm just curious about like that was just interesting. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I think that brings up a great point, again, Portia, that there is a difference between your gender identity and your sexual identity. Right? So we've talked about gender identity. Your sexual identity is who you feel attracted to. And that is under the umbrella of things like heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual and again, I was like, is this movie a little homophobic? Like Amanda or Viola when she's playing Sebastian, wouldn't kiss the girls and stuff. Maybe she doesn't want to. Right. But I also thought it sort of did play off of that like you're saying. And it was interesting that it seemed like Olivia was attracted to the feminine aspects of Viola playing Sebastian's character, right. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And not Duke, who presenting to outside people, is not that sensitive guy, but he is closed doors to other guys, right. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So, again, it explores these themes of gender, sexuality, and just how you kind of express yourself and move through the world in a really interesting way. But again, if you are a trans person, that doesn't mean you are homosexual or bisexual. And so that is something important to keep in mind that you can be a trans man and still be attracted. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: To whoever you are attracted to. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: They're not like mutually exclusive, one doesn't lead to the other or anything like that. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And we see Amanda Bynes really come to life when she is at the carnival and performing the rapid gender changes, code switching in how she's talking and how she's walking. And it's just a being a good actor. And also I think it's part of the humor that they pulled from the play. Yes, the play. I think it's like carnivally. It's silly. It's again, it's supposed to give that gender ambiguity which I think is just interesting. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Shakespeare's from a long time ago. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And can you again define code switching for our listeners? Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So we also talk about code switching with people. Describe it as going to different groups of people. Right? So you might have a way that you speak at home and then when you're in a certain environment, like maybe work or like a classroom, you become kind of different. And you say words differently, you use different words, you carry yourself differently. I think I was more thinking of it or I've been aware of it more from black Americans kind of identifying their experience with being home and then being in a colleges are historically white places. So kind of having to adopt a white code when going to them to appear, right. Like the norm, which is like professional. You can be an educated black person in your home code, but in order to be perceived as educated in some of these other environments, you need to adopt the bigger code all the way. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: From what you wear to the way you do your hair to do you have tattoos or not, like all of those things. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So we see in the movie where I don't want to say it necessarily gets wrong. I just think it's like the times and it's not them continuing to educate the masses, but right when they identify their gender by showing their body parts at the end. So it's like we see Sebastian pull his pants down. Which also that's I feel like we don't get arrested. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It's indecent exposure. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And everyone's like, oh. And then they're all kind of joking because seemingly he has a large *****. Right? Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It seems like. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then we see Viola later on lift up her shirt to prove she's a girl. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So, again, even in the movie, they're mixing know, anatomical sex parts and your gender. I also thought the principal just like, calling out this issue in front of everyone. Weird stopping the game. There's title nine violations all over the place here, and that's just like, not the way you do it. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's also just like a weirdo. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Remember when he's like, over identifying and assuming that Viola as Sebastian's experience is the same as his? Yeah, kind of crazy. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Did you recognize him? Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No, I did. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's in a lot of things, actually, when I clicked on his name. But I think I recognized him from Men in Black. He's in the first movie, I believe. And I used to really like that movie and I watched it a lot. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But I was like, how do I know this guy? Probably from then. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So, yeah, in general, I thought I wasn't expecting all of this. Like, when you said we should cover this movie, I was, huh. Okay, amanda bynes cool. It's a throwback. All right. But it really did bring up a lot of big themes about gender identity, sexual identity, girl versus boy. Why do we divide sports all the time? Just like all of these sort of gender archetypes really brought it out. And again, thinking that this movie is 20 years old, it's really interesting, again, that so many of these themes are still something we're trying to sort through in our culture today. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And really, I think it was just kind of dismissed probably as like a teen movie. But I think The Band of Buys, she was excellent in it, I think, based on the Shakespeare, twelveTH Night was excellent. I think I'm almost comparing it. And we're laughing because we also recorded Barbie on this day. And I think it's very similar to Barbie in some ways, right? Where I think, yes, of course the movie could have been better. It's also almost 20 years old. But I think that she didn't get the credit that she was owed for playing this role and for the writing. And again, I just think it's a really clever idea for a movie and people like me loved it. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And you were saying there's been a lot of discussion about it, even in the present day, where they're really sort of analyzing the gender roles and the way she portrays it, the way she's code switching, people are still talking about it. And so I think that is what makes art beautiful, is that it can provoke these feelings. These thoughts give you a means to discuss these bigger issues, especially when you might not agree with the person you're talking about it with. But it's like a maybe safe, neutral place to talk about it. And we're still talking about this stuff. So it was interesting. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So of know, I think it's worth saying we wish Amanda finds well. She's iconic and I selfishly would love to see her back in theater, but I don't know if that's good for her or know, who am I to say? But I love her. She was through my childhood and stay tuned. Maybe we'll do another one of her things, but thank you for listening today to our podcast. If you would like to follow us, you can follow us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts or TikTok at Analyze Scripts podcast threads at Analyze scripts podcast, and you can check us out on our website to get more information or continue to search through some of our older episodes. They're great. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah. All right, we'll see you next Monday. Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Bye bye. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of analyzed scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Unless you want to share it with your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine. Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

Become a Friend of the Show! – join our Patreon communityPardon our dust as we compare notes on our experiences with moving and home renovations. We talk about what we did to make these big transitions easier, and what we wish we'd done. Plus how to parent through the chaos and how to stay (mostly) calm when things inevitably don't go as planned.Mentioned on the show:BabelThe MeasureTitle Nine tech joggers Become a Friend of the Show! – join our Patreon communityConnect with us on Instagram: @higirlsnextdoorSee show notes on our website: girlnextdoorpodcast.comWe love to get your emails: higirlsnextdoor@gmail.comYour reviews on Apple Podcasts really help the show - thank you! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In episode #39, hear Ginny Gilder - an Olympic silver medalist, an author, the founder & CEO of an investment business, and co-owner of the WNBA's Seattle Storm - talk about her incredible journey over the last 40 years to fight for the rights and opportunities for women in sport. From participating in an iconic protest as part of Yale's rowing team in 1976, to joining as a co-owner of the Seattle Storm in 2008, Ginny's activism, work and leadership has contributed to the creation of a tremendous about of gender equity in sport. In this episode, hear Ginny & Caroline discuss:Ginny's time rowing at Yale, which included protesting for Title IX compliance.The story behind Ginny, Dawn Trudeau, Lisa Brummel buying the Seattle Storm back in 2008. The 50th anniversary of Title IX, and what the law has meant for women in sports.What Ginny finds most exciting about the current landscape of women's sports....and of course, why Ginny believes it's good business to invest in women's sports. More from GOALS Follow GOALS on Twitter: @goals_sports_Follow GOALS on Instagram: @goals_sports_Follow GOALS on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/goals-sportsShop: goals-sports.com/shopEmail: hello@goals-sports.com  

Learn how to really and truly end gender bias at work Despite extensive and costly diversity initiatives, little progress has been made in recent years in ending workplace gender inequality. I reviewed Andie Kramer's new book, Beyond Bias: The Path To End Gender Inequality At Work, and was so excited to read about a process for change that might actually work. Remember, we are corporate anthropologists specializing in helping organizations change. And we know how hard it is for people and groups of people to shift their ways of doing things to improve their workplaces. Beyond Bias, as Andie will tell you in our podcast, presents a compelling explanation of the reasons for the failure of change initiatives to bring a more diverse and equitable workplace into reality, and what we can do to change that. Watch and listen to our conversation here Current diversity initiatives focus primarily on “teaching” people to be less biased and more inclusive, which doesn't work. Teaching is fine. But, as Andie tells us, this is the wrong focus. As Beyond Bias makes clear, workplace gender inequality is a systemic problem caused largely by the (unintended) discriminatory operation of personnel systems, policies and practices. And these ingrained biases have been caused by all the structures that have evolved over many years as organizations have developed. As a solution, Andie offers the four-prong PATH program for directly attacking this structural discrimination — and with it, individuals' discriminatory conduct. In brief, PATH is designed to help you: Prioritize Elimination of Exclusionary Behavior Adopt Bias-free Methods of Decision-Making Treat Inequality in the Home as a Workplace Problem Halt Unequal Performance Evaluations and Leadership Development Opportunities This progam is a comprehensive set of actions that organizations can take to ensure that women no longer encounter gendered obstacles to their career advancement and instead, find their workplaces to be engaging, supportive places where they — and everyone — can thrive. And wouldn't that be fantastic, finally. You can read more about Andie Kramer, Founding Member of ASKramer Law, in my book, Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business. You can also contact her on LinkedIn, Twitter and her two websites: ASKramer Law and Andie and Al: Breaking Through Bias. Want more strategies for fighting bias at work? Start with these:  Blog: Businesses Must Sustain Diversity And Inclusion For Women Podcast: Andrea Kramer and Alton Harris—Tackling Gender Bias In The Workplace Podcast: Maureen Berkner Boyt—Diversity and Inclusion: Let's Go Beyond Hoping and Make Inclusion Really Happen Podcast: Rohini Anand—Can Businesses Create Cultures Based On True Diversity, Equity and Inclusion? Additional resources for you My two award-winning books: Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Businessand On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights Our website: Simon Associates Management Consultants   Read the transcript of our podcast here Andi Simon: Welcome to On the Brink With Andi Simon. I'm Andi Simon, and as you know, I'm your guide and your host and my job is to get you off the brink. I want to help you see things through a fresh lens so you can change. And you know that your brain hates me. The minute I say we're going to change, you immediately shut down right away and say, Oh, no, you cannot change me. But I want you to begin to see things that you can do to begin to adapt your organization, yourself, and the folks around you so they can in fact live better lives.  And today, it's time for us to talk about this challenge. We are building diverse, equitable, inclusive organizations, where people with different backgrounds of any kind can feel like they belong. Now, for setup, my guest today is Andie Kramer. And she was kind enough to tell her story in my first book about women, Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business. I'll share with you that I have a new book coming out in September called Women Mean Business. But I'm not going to tell you much more about it. Andie is a very talented lawyer and author who has a new book coming out this May 2023. And the book is called Beyond Bias: The Path To End Gender Inequality At Work. She's written several books about it. And let me give you a bit of her biography, then I'm gonna turn it over to her to tell you about her journey because it's a very interesting one, from being told not to be a lady lawyer to being a very successful one. So who is Andie Kramer? She's regarded as one of the foremost authorities on the regulatory texts, commercial and governance matters that arise for individuals and businesses in trading environments. She's represented multinational corporations, financial services firms, exchanges, trading platforms, hedge funds, all kinds of companies that typically deal with securities, commodities, derivatives, all types of things, ESG matters and non-traditional assets, emerging asset classes of all types. Really, really smart, wonderful lady. She's respected for her multi-disciplinary knowledge concerning legal issues arising in markets, and all types of products at trade. nd then we're going to skip around her bio a bit. She has spent 30 years at McDermott Will and Emery where she established and led the financial products trading and derivatives group. In my book, we talk more about how getting into McDermott Will and Emery was an interesting experience and what she's done there, since it's been an interesting one. One of my favorite stories is how the men all climbed the Empire State Building and saved the damsel in distress and the women all worked well together, and they kept their jobs. So she learned early about being a very successful, talented woman in a man's organization and industry. She's been co-author of many books, and she was also named by The National Law Journal as one of the 50 Most Influential Women Lawyers in America, for a demonstrated power to change the legal landscape, shape public affairs, watch industries and do big things. I love that. The National Law Review recognized her as a go-to thought leader, and JD super readers voted for her as the top author in cryptocurrency and taxation, but we're not going to talk about cryptocurrency today. But that's an interesting topic by itself. She's known for her long-standing work addressing and dismantling workplace gender discrimination. And she served as a member of the diversity and inclusion advisory board for the Illinois Supreme Court Commission on Professionalism and was co-author of What You Need to Know about Negotiating Compensation, a 2013 Guide, published by the American Bar Association with her lovely husband, Al Harris. She's written two award winning books, Breaking Through Bias: Communication Techniques for Women to Succeed at Work, and the book that I have behind me, It's Not You, It's the Workplace, Women's Conflict at Work and the Bias That Built It. With that in mind, that is sort of the setup for today's conversation. And I will tell you, before the podcast begins, I just love Andie Kramer, and you will as well, in part because she's tackled the legal profession and our society with both hands up and ready to go. And now she keeps wanting to help it change. So with that, Andie, before I talk about your new book, let's talk about your own journey. How did you get going in this? Why is bias and bias management such a critical part about who Andie Kramer is, and how are we helping women and organizations change, which is what I love. Andie? Andie Kramer: Thanks. Okay. Well, well, thank you very much Andi. Yeah, if we get confused, all we have to do is say, Andi(ie) and we've got it covered. My journey started when I was 12 years old and I decided that I wanted to be a lawyer. And my parents only knew one man who was a lawyer and asked him if he would do some career advice for me. And when I met with him, he spent the entire lunchtime talking about why I did not want to be a lawyer, because no one liked lady lawyers, no one would ever love me, I would never have a family, I would always be alone, and life would be terrible. Obviously, I paid no attention to him. And I went forward and became a lawyer and have been for many years. But he really touched on something that is important in the context of what we have to do about the workplace for women and what we can do to do better. And that is that he touched on what my husband and I refer to as the Goldilocks Dilemma, which is that women who are nice and kind and sweet are playing to stereotypes and are expected to be nice and kind and sweet. But if we're stronger, tougher, get this done, or I need this by this time period, we're too tough, and no one wants to work with us. And so this man talking to a 12-year-old was actually touching on some of the issues that we still have today in today's workplace, which is that women are expected to be punished if we're not nice and kind and sweet. But if we're to get this done, and I need this, and I need it now, then not just the men, but the women, too, don't want to be working with us. And so that leads me to Andi's original question: why am I doing this? And how did I get in this space? And the answer to that was that once I knew I wanted to be a lawyer, I put my head down, and I was fortunate enough to be able to make that happen. We could talk about how Title Nine actually is what probably allowed me to get into law school because before Title Nine, women were excluded from consideration. And so that's a topic for another day. But the reality is that when I joined this huge big law firm after having started my practice with a group of people that could not have cared if you were purple, polka dotted, if you did a good job, everybody wanted you on their projects, I'm now in an environment where the fact that I was a woman, what am I doing in a corner office, the fact that I have a two-year-old daughter at home, obviously, I don't care about my career. So the stereotypes are clashing. And I started to see what stereotypes and biases do to women in the workplace, especially when the workplace is large and people don't know you. And so they rely on the stereotypes and the biases that they've grown up with and are comfortable with. And so I started. When I served on our management committee, and then on our compensation committee, this is what Andi was alluding to. The very first thing I learned was that the men will talk about how, in their self-evaluations, how they would have climbed to the top of the Empire State Building, circled around and rescued all the damsels in distress, and they're cool. And they all are owed all the money and all the promotions. The woman who came up with the idea that saved the client, all the money, would write her self-evaluation talking about how she was on the ABC team. And she worked with so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so. And so what I learned then was that there are special rules about how women and men are expected to communicate with each other, how we're punished if we don't, and what we need to do to actually move the needle for diversity, equity and inclusion, and that is to go after the stereotypes and the biases and basically root them out. Andi Simon: Now, you and I have talked so much about these things. Your first book was about how women could communicate better using a good setup and segue from what you just said, because those women who were providing you with self-evaluations were providing you with a story. And the main story, the women's story, were very different stories about how they saw themselves, saw each other and performed. It's like a stage, they had different roles, and they played them differently. Now, if you want to leave it like that, you can. But I don't think that that's the most constructive way for us to build a better organization tapping into the talent that women bring. So now we're looking for a new model, a new way, a new story for us to develop. Your first book was about how to help women shift the way they saw themselves and communicate, am I correct? Andie Kramer: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. If you're dealt a gender bias workplace, how can you play cards in that, with that deck? What we did is, we realized, what we did is, we found that before we could talk about what women need to do, and can do, when interacting with other people, we devoted the first part of the book to what women can have conversations that we can have with ourselves. And those conversations are about confidence and positive mindset and resilience and having what's referred to as a coping sense of humor, so that all of these things that we can marshal to have a conversation with ourselves about what we can do, as to how we're going to go out into the world and interact with other people. So that's sort of the first part of the book. And then the second part of the book was, Okay, now we're interacting with other people, what do we do from the standpoint of verbal and nonverbal communications, because very often women will sit at a table, in the old days, when we used to have lots of meetings, sit at the table. And when people would be coming in late, the women would be squishing up ourselves and the guy who had two chairs, because he had put his suit coat on the second chair, he's not paying any attention to who's getting squished at the table. He's not offering to move his chair or his suit coat off of the second chair. And so what happens is, women-spaces-power, and women, we would give it up very easily. Men tend to gesture away from themselves that makes them look bigger, more powerful. Women tend to gesture towards ourselves. And so all of these sorts of nonverbal signs that are saying who's powerful and who's not. And then in the communication itself, what happens is, because of the stereotypes and biases, because women don't want to be perceived as too hard, we don't want to be perceived as getting punished for being too in your face. Basically, we couch things to try to, Well, maybe this is a bad idea. But well, it's not a bad idea. She doesn't think it's a bad idea. But she doesn't want to say I have this great idea. So maybe it's a bad idea, or I'm sorry 9 million times. And so what we'll do is, women will find ways to try to send a signal that we're not trying to be in your face. And what happens is, then the message that we're sending very often is, We're not as competent, we're not as confident, we're not as talented as somebody who's prepared to tell you to your face that they are competent, confident as hell. Andi Simon: And part of the challenge for women is that as you have been as you grew up, you learned and you mimicked others who played roles. And I do use theater often as a metaphor. And so you look, whether it's on the screen, or it's on your TV, or it's at home, and those are the models that you are being mentored by, even if it's not understood or intentional. So your styles of behaving were set a long time before you knew that you were behaving that way. And an alternative style hasn't emerged for you because you're not going to minimally mimic the guys and be looked at as a bitch or as somebody who's very tough, you really want to find something in between that plays up on the intellectual and smart side while still having an intentional approach to it that others will hear you. Part of it is how you present. The other part is how they hear you. And that becomes part of the challenge. Your second book, It's Not You, It's the Workplace was a really interesting setup for the new book. Quickly tell us a little bit about how we went from how you can change your conversation and style to the workplace understanding of it, so you can begin to think about it. And then we'll talk about your new book and the PATH program, which I think is just a brilliant way of applying it. Andie Kramer: Well, what happened was when we were talking about and writing about the issues of what women can do to overcome gender bias workplaces, we were hit with a lot of resistance. One was, Why do women have to change? And the answer to that is: We're not saying women have to change, we're just telling you that you need to know what the cards are that you were dealt and figure out how to play them to your advantage. But the other part of it was, women would say, Okay, I get it, I understand how to deal with guys. Now you're giving me some good points, I got it, but I really hate working with women. And that was a shock for me because I've never had any trouble working with women, and couldn't for the life of me figure this out. And we started to do some serious research into what's going on in the workplace that makes it that women are prepared to say, I get along fine with the guys, but I hate working with women. And what we found was that most of it has nothing to do with the women other than the fact that in a gender biased workplace, what happens is, there's one spot at the top, so that if I'm nice to you, you might take that spot away from me. There might be expectations as to who's going to make it in a small group. We also come to the workplace with all sorts of misconceptions: who we are, and what are we coming to? What are we bringing to the table? And so we come with all these suitcases filled with all these stereotypes and biases that we have about ourselves, and other people have about us, and so It's Not You, It's the Workplace starts with, Let's talk about a gender bias workplace, and how that holds women back and how it prevents women from having the opportunities to grow the way that men can comfortably in the workplace. And then what can we do better to understand each other? So It's Not You, It's the Workplace, what we did is, we started with, Okay, well, let's look at younger women and older women. Let's look at LGBTQ and other women, let's look at black women versus everybody else. Let's look at Asian women versus everybody else. And so we worked our way through many of the biggest stereotypes and biases that are affecting women's interacting with each other. And that was really what It's Not You, It's the Workplace was about trying to say. The problem is not that women don't get along with women, the problem is that the workplace is making it difficult for women to interact with other women. Andi Simon: It's a very interesting setup because you don't think of it that way; you think about women having trouble working in men's industries. But in fact, as you diversify and bring in people of different backgrounds, you begin to create a different dynamic that's going on here. When you started to write this book, the new one, I really want to talk a little bit about Beyond Bias because if the listener can hear where we're going, and the kind of problems I'm going to tell you about how you can probably address, maybe there's a bigger issue here in terms of the dynamics. Okay, that's the workplace, now what do we do? The new book coming out is called Beyond Bias. And since you may watch this podcast, even afterwards, the new book is out. It's coming in May 2023. But it's a book that you should, if you hear this before then, preorder it. But what Andie and I are both fascinated by is that diversity, equity, inclusion, little progress, or that some people have good jobs, and they're always the diverse person who has that job mess if they have some magic to figure out a solution. And I know so many of them who are really VPs of HR with, you know, global diversity, and they are all a little bit frustrated. or maybe not ready to accept the fact that little progress has been made. So Beyond Bias presents a compelling explanation of the reasons for this failure. And I think the most interesting part is that Andie and her husband have come up with a process for addressing it. Now, you have to remember, I'm an anthropologist, a corporate anthropologist, who helps organizations change. So when I was asked to review this, I went, Oh my gosh, this is right up the way in which we have to change a culture. It's going from hunting and gathering to a fishing village. And it doesn't know the first thing about how to fish. So as Beyond Bias makes clear, workplace gender inequality is a systemic problem caused largely by discriminatory operation of personnel systems, policies and practices. It's a PATH program here. I'll read you what the half steps are, and then I'll have Andie tell you about them. The PATH program attacks structural discrimination, and with it, the individual discriminatory code. The P is to prioritize the elimination of exclusionary behavior. The A is for adopt a bias-free method of decision-making. Now, that's important. Because unless you do that, then women still feel like they can't really talk about ideas or decide and feel comfortable that they aren't getting set up to fail. T is for treat inequality in the home as a workplace problem. Now, that's a whole separate topic, we never quite get to but it's important because what happens outside of the office impacts the inside. And I actually had a CEO of a company say, I think I have to go to a black church to better understand the people I'm hiring, which wasn't a bad idea. And the last, the H is halt unequal performance evaluations and leadership development opportunities. So in this wonderful book that's coming out, I can't wait to read it. I'd like Andie to talk about how they came up with this process because if it works as well as I think it will, you're changing mindset, attitudes and behaviors. And ideas are fine, but execution wins. Andie Kramer: Well, what we found was that most of the bias, the anti-bias training of the DEI training, is: these are the stereotypes, these are the biases, they're unconscious, don't be biased. Well, if it's an unconscious reaction that we have, you could tell me all day long not to be biased, and it's not going to matter. And that's ultimately what we've seen, which is not that the money has been wasted, but that all of the focus has been on trying to fix the individual. And individuals are fairly hard to fix. So what we need to do is we need to step back and say, What is it about the systems that we have in place that prevent women from succeeding? Prevent the free diversity, equity and inclusion that we're hoping and praying for and dreaming for? What can we do to change the system? So that behavior changes actually happen because the system is different. And that's what the PATH program does. So we take for example, getting rid of exclusionary behavior. Well, it's wonderful that so many organizations now require certain things. They strive for diversity. They strive for people of different backgrounds, not because it's the morally right thing to do, which it is, but because the studies all show that companies make more money and are more profitable when they actually have diverse decisions being made. And so you bring in all these diverse people, but you don't welcome them in a way that allows them to succeed. So what happens is, you bring on these people and you just throw them in the deep end and see whether they're going to swim or not. That's not an inclusive environment. So what we need to do is, we need to work towards making it so that inclusion is part of the DNA, the hardwired fabric of an organization. That's sort of the first step, but then what we did is, as we were digging deep and burning deeper into this and it was resonating more and more with us, primarily because of our decades of experience in management positions, it became clear that we can move the needle, we can do better with respect to diversity, inclusion and equity. We can do better if we change the systems, and I'll give you a simple example. I was very involved in the diversity programs at my law firm, the huge law firm that I was at. I've now this year started my own law firm. So I'm now excited with those changes. But when I was at the mega, super large law firm, what happens? Well, the stereotypes and the biases of the people who are reviewing the lawyers would come out: he's a go-getter, she needs her hand held, he's so busy that he doesn't have time for it, she just doesn't get her work done. So that the exact same behavior would be characterized differently, depending on the lens of the reviewer. And so what we did was, we got rid of all of those open-ended questions about, Is this person good for the job, and we instead put in core competencies which would require an evaluation of how to actually do the role that you're assigned. By getting rid of those open-ended questions that would allow the reviewers to say whatever they wanted, if they had to actually evaluate the people for something that was viewed as a competency, the world changed, the way that these evaluations were being done was changed. And so what we found is that even little tiny things can make dramatic differences in the way that we approach diversity, equity and inclusion. Andi Simon: Now, as you were doing that, your PATH program has four steps to it. And we know that the behavior is the important part. But you also have to visualize somehow what that behavior is actually supposed to mean. I have a friend who has $150 million company, and she's tried to make it completely equitable, so that you have men and women, people of different backgrounds. But she had to teach them how to talk to each other, and actually had to show them how to have a meeting where the women and the men could each have enough time. They could also listen to each other's ideas without judging them. And until they could see what she was talking about, it was an anathema to them. We're doing it when you're not taking a look at the video. Of course, when you see the video, I didn't really mean to do that until all of a sudden, you realize that I haven't changed anything. And that's what I need to begin to change and then reinforce because if I don't get a pat on the back for doing it, a hug, a smile, something that says well done, your brain isn't going to remember that's what you're supposed to do. So we have to be humbled by our brains. But on the other hand, you have to see it in order to understand what it is I'm supposed to do. So the four steps were intentionally designed to help you through that process, I'm expecting. Andie Kramer: Yes, exactly. And, interestingly, in the way that we've set these steps up is that you can succeed with small wins. So that it's not: that's your pat on the back, attagirl, attaboy, let's go for it kind of a thing, which is that we need to be reinforced. And so the world wasn't going to change overnight, but just taking away the ability for some senior guy to write about how he knows the young man is going to make something of his career and she's a loser. That's not going to change the world. But you got to start somewhere. And one of the other ways about eliminating discriminatory kinds of evaluations is very interesting because if you just prevent people from having in their face: this is a diverse person, and this is a diverse person, miraculously they don't see that. And so one of the examples is that in the US, many of the symphony orchestras in the 70s were almost all white men. And as soon as they started doing the auditions behind the curtain, miraculously, women and people of color were being added to the symphony. And what we can do is, in the context of just considering a resume, if we get rid of the names, the characteristics that are gender specific or ethnic, or flag racial, one thing or another, it turns out that the women get more chances to actually talk about what they would do if they have the position. And so there's little tiny steps along the way. And each one, you could get a gold star if you wanted. You could view these as progressing and acknowledging that not everybody is going to dive in with both feet to do the full PATH program. We've set it up so that each one could be a module, some of them could be done, some pieces can be done quickly, other pieces can be done over time. But when you're encouraging people, and they're seeing some success, and feeling good about it, miraculously, they're eager, more eager to go to the next step. Andi Simon: Now, I will say, this is not easy. We must be humbled about the fact that humans are cultural creatures and we give meaning to things. There's great research that I did a podcast about that came out of Stanford, where if you gave people designs or buildings or products and you said a woman built it, they didn't think much of it. But, if you said a man built it, they thought it was terrific. There's so much that in our society has to be changed. But it's also a small one at a time, so that may be a battleship, and you're already on your way forward. But there's a destination and we can see that light out there because slowly it's happening. Remember, 40% of the attorneys today are women. And that means that you got almost half. Over half of the doctors are women. Over half the dentists are women. 65% of the accounts are women. And there's a sea surge coming. And there's more women who are getting onto boards and women who are in the C-suite slowly but surely. And when they do, others see that it's possible. You know McKinsey's Women of the Workplace 2022 said, it's a great breakup. Women are leaving, and they're saying, Bye, don't need you. And they're coming and they're doing wonderful things a little like Andie did when she set up her own law firm this year. It was time to be on my own. But this is a time of change. And I think the most important thing is that you begin to keep moving forward, not go back, and not simply say, That's just the way it is, because it doesn't have to be. And I do think that the guys who support us, both your husband and mine, have been great supporters, we've been supported. And I do think that begins to build a better alignment because I'm watching my daughters and their husbands have much better alignment. Are you seeing changes in the Gen Zs? I don't think the Gen As are moving up yet. Maybe the Gen Ys, are they? I know they're more intermarried? I know there's more acceptance of diversity. Are you seeing anything there that gives us hope? Andie Kramer: What a good question. I'd like to believe so. The most recent studies, though, show that the young men are just as biased as their fathers. And so I don't think that age is going to solve the problem. I think we really have work to do, and I think you made that point at the beginning about how it's not easy but things need to be done. And I think that there may be less resistance to it by younger people because they're growing up in an environment where they're expected to be, assumed to be punished if they're not diverse and willing to be more open, but in the quiet of their own space. That's really where we have to see the changes in talking about business. What we did in Beyond Bias is, we really looked at what we put together is, three sort of core stereotypes and the biases that grow from the stereotypes, and one is affinity bias. Andi, obviously you could teach a class on it, about how we believe that we're like people who are like us out of group bias, which is that we don't like people who are not like us. Gender bias, which we've been talking about, is obviously a key part of our books. But there's also other biases that we talk about in Beyond Bias. One of them is called status quo bias. And we're prepared to defend environments, situations and workplaces that are not good just because they're there. And so the interesting studies will show that just proving to somebody that they could be better by making a change is not enough to overcome the status quo bias. You have to prove to them that it's two and a half times greater benefit to them. And so we have a resistance. We have people who are at the top saying, It's not broke, I don't need to fix it. We have people who are saying, Maybe it's broke, but I benefit from it so I'm going to be quiet. And then we have people who say, It hurts me, but change is scary. Andi Simon: Yes. And there's also a lack of trust that the new is better than what is. We know what is. I know how to deal with it. My day is pretty well structured, I can get through it. If there are microaggressions, oh, I figured out how to deal with those little dudes. I have a friend who's president of an insurance company. And she tells a story about being the coat girl. She said, It didn't matter what meeting, the guys gave me their coats to hang up. I went to Lloyds of London to bring them a client. And they gave me the coats to hang up until I went in front of them and said, Let me tell you about the client I brought. Then there's the stories that Sheryl Sandberg tells about women who sit on the sides and don't come up to the table. To your point about making space. I wonder whether the hybrid workplace has created opportunities for transformation in a different fashion because of the virtual meetings. The research says that women still can't say anything. Andie Kramer: Okay, they still can't say anything. Well, I'm personally ambivalent, but I believe that the studies are going to show that women need to be where the action is. And in many workplaces, they can't just be at home or they will be left behind because of out of sight, out of mind. So we have to worry about that, even though it might be more comfortable, convenient or whatever, to be working at home. So we have to keep that in mind. The other thing, though, is that her being a coat girl, well, you know, I can't tell you how many cups of coffee I've poured at meetings. How many times I've been asked to do one thing or another. But in our book, Beyond Bias, about breaking through bias, one of the things we recommend is, if you're the one who will always get told to go pick up the phone and call for this or call for that, don't sit by the phone. Don't be the one who makes it easy for them to just make that assumption about you. Andi Simon: Well, and that comes from setting the stage early on, about what's acceptable or not. Those are important conversations and you have to do them in a way which doesn't build animosity, like collaboration. And those are important words, like I preach in my leadership academies. The words collaboration, coordination, creative problem solving, are all important. You know, Andie, we could talk a lot but I think it's time to wrap up. When does the book come out or they can buy it now. It's available as a preorder on Amazon? Andie Kramer: Yeah, I think all the online bookstores have it. Andi Simon: Good, we'll make sure it's on both the blog and the video. It's called Beyond Bias: The Path To End Gender Inequality At Work and it's going to be a fabulous book for us to read. You can read all three books and it won't hurt you at all. But now the thing is, once you've read the book, how do you do something, and we're both big fans of small wins. What I love is we can visualize where we want to go, a diverse workforce that feels like they're being treated equitably. And there's inclusion. So when we go out for beers at night, we ask the women to join us, even though sometimes it's hard to do. Or conversely, we figure out ways for them to do things that we join them there. But it's interesting to be intentional about it, and to find small wins, and every time you do celebrate the win because your mind remembers what it celebrates. So if you really want to make the changes stick, you have to do both a vision of where you're going and visualization of action towards there and celebrate. Just take those things to Andie's PATH program and begin to watch the organization move because they can see where you want to go. And often I find that they don't know what words really mean. What does equitable mean? What does inclusion mean? What does belonging mean? We keep talking. Andie, thank you for joining me today. It's been a pleasure again. Andie Kramer: No, thank you very much for having me. I've enjoyed the conversation and hope that we can make that path forward to eliminating gender inequality in the workplace. Andi Simon: And I'm sure Beyond Bias will do just that. For all of our listeners and our viewers, thank you for coming. You keep sending me great people to interview. I happened to meet Andie through somebody who interviewed me and said, You got to talk to Andie Kramer. It's been great, a great colleague to have and a friend to know. Info@Andisimon.com gets your inquiries right to us. We enjoy listening and reading them and finding new people to help you see, feel and think in new ways. And remember, my books are available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and anywhere else, and they're really cool. People keep coming back and saying that's a really cool book. So I would like to share my coolness with you. Thanks so much. Bye now.

Head of the state Human Services Department stepping down; Hutchinson opposed to change on Title Nine; The new Arkansas river bridge opens; A trailblazer for women in Arkansas has died

Transcription:Intro  00:03Welcome to Changing the Rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best lives and advice on how you can achieve that too. Join us with your lively host, Ray Lowe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.Ray Loewe00:19Good morning everybody, and welcome to our brand new studios in Willow Street, Pennsylvania. And we have our super engineer today, Steve Wright. And I like it when Steve is on the board, because he's a fellow swimmer, and he somehow boosts my energy level when he does this stuff. So we're gonna get a super performance, and his job is to make us sound good at the end. And I want to remind everybody that the purpose of our broadcast is we talk to one of the luckiest people in the world each week. And the luckiest people in the world are those people who take control of their lives and take control of the direction and live their lives under their own terms. And we call the show Changing the Rules. And you know, throughout our lives, we're given all of these rules by everybody else. Our parents give us rules, the school gives us rules, the government gives us rules. You know, everybody is out there telling us what we're supposed to do and what we're not supposed to do. And I think it was Steve Jobs, the Apple guy, who came in and said, you know, when you're living your life under somebody else's rules, you're not living your life, you're living somebody else's. So we have a gentleman today who certainly is one of the luckiest people in the world. And you're going to find out that the luckiest people in the world are also the most interesting people in the world. And Ying Wushanley, and what a great name. And you're gonna get the history of his name, too, as part of the process over here. And I met Ying in a swimming pool. He's a fellow competitive swimmer, he's a very, very good master swimmer. And we met him not too long ago when we were trying to qualify for next year's Senior Games. And I found out that Ying is recently retired as a full professor from Millersville College and he is embarking in the next third of his life. And he's going to be doing some exciting things, but he's done some really exciting things in the past. Ying has been an expert on the history of sports and his journey is an incredible one. Ying, welcome to Changing the Rules. Let's start with your expertise, is that alright with you?Ying Wushanley02:46Sure, yeah. Well, thanks for having me on the program. My expertise, I'm a trained sport historian. Most people have never heard of a historian who is focused on sports, but there are many out there.Ray Loewe03:08Well, let me start with a couple of specific questions. You know, one of the things that we deal with all the time in sports are the Olympics. Okay. And we had a conversation earlier and we were talking, I was under the impression that the Olympics have changed. That we went from being an amateur sport group over here to very much today professionals taking over the sports and I found out that's not true, is it?Ying Wushanley03:37Not in ancient time, the ancient games were the athletes were what we term as true professionals because they do their best and they will make a good living based on their athletic prowess.Ray Loewe03:57So the ancient Olympians were paid in fact?Ying Wushanley04:00Yes, paid big time. Yeah, like tons of olive oil, or free meals and they could dine everywhere. That's, that's pay. Well, they may not have gotten the currency also, but the name recognition will enable them to live a very wealthy life.Ray Loewe04:23And that has gone on for almost forever, right? When we started the modern Olympics, when did the modern Olympics start?Ying Wushanley04:31The game, the first game actually took place in 1896. But in 1894 the International Olympic Committee was formed. At the time, there was an idea of amateurs because it was supposedly based on the ancient idea of amateurs, even though in reality there wasn't such a thing. But it was based on a bunch of social elite who wanted to create this upper-class idea of amateurs. Meaning you don't play for money, you play for the love of sports.Ray Loewe05:11But the only way they could do that is because they were part of the wealthy elite, and they had the money to be able to train and do whatever. Ying Wushanley05:16Yeah, who can afford to be a very good amateur athlete if you don't have money?Ray Loewe05:20Okay, so now we can understand where we've gone all of these years. And today, it's very much not the amateur that rules the Olympics. Ying Wushanley05:30No, because the amateurs won't be good enough to compete there.Ray Loewe05:34Okay. So, while we're on the subject of the Olympics, I often wondered, why would any city in their right mind want to sponsor the Olympics? I mean, do they make money doing these things?Ying Wushanley05:47Well, it's for recognition. Politicians would like to bring attention to their corner of the world, especially say if you're from Brazil, from Australia, and how do you bring people to your corner of the world? So using Olympic Games as a major attraction, of course, certain cities have benefited financially, but many cities don't. And that is why today because the bidding is so expensive, many cities decided to quit because after all if you have more than 5 or 10 cities bid, only one will be chosen. And the preparation will cost so much money. And eventually, you're still not chosen and you've wasted a lot of money. Even the chosen ones, not too many of them make a big profit. But on the other hand, it's hard to measure because the legacy will be there, you had  the honor to host the Olympic Games. Ray Loewe06:57So national pride comes into play. Okay, so that gets me into the next question. And again, I had the ability to talk to you about some of these. So I sound smarter, knowing the right questions than I actually am. But, let's talk about national anthems and sports and give us a little insight into the importance of national anthems. You know, we've all gone through this change and what's going on where athletes now rebel against national anthems? But there's a history here and a tradition. So, why do we play national anthems? What goes on, what's the importance of all of these things? Ying Wushanley07:42Well, it started as an accidental event, I think, during the 1918 World Series of baseball, and after the seventh inning stretch that the band, they played some music, including the Star Spangled Banner, which got spectators excited. And the manager or whoever the organizer was figured out for the rest of the series, we're going to start playing that music to get the fans involved. And that was the beginning of that tradition. And traditions, sometimes they're welcome, sometimes not, including many of the baseball franchise owners, they decided, you know, we're here to play sports. Why do we have to play music? You know, it makes sense at the championship to play it, make it more formal and more,  respectful. But for every game to play this does not seem right. Well, you know, the baseball history as well as American sports history always goes along with the time. And oftentimes we have nations in war and patriotism plays very important role when you are in the war. And somehow we always need patriotism, patriotism would be something that the national anthem will symbolize and epitomize our national unity. So, that became a tradition first in baseball, then in other sports. But for many, many decades, it wasn't that big a deal until, I think more recently, the Persian Gulf War, the Desert Storm operation in 1991, then of course, the 911. 911 after 2001. With artists like Whitney Houston doing a rendition of the national anthem, it became so popular at the time, it was ranked in the top 20, and the second time in the top 10 of the most popular charts. So, it's very common then from an outsider's point of view, it seemed to be very strange because we can understand playing the national anthem at the Olympic Games, when you play against Italy, against France, against Japan. So, both team's national anthems will be played. But here in this country, every sporting event, even at high school level, or even, you know, little league baseball, there's always the national anthem. And oftentimes the media likes to portray it as every time we play sports, we honor the people who protect our freedom because we have the privilege to enjoy the freedom we can play sports. Some of my students say that other countries don't have this freedom, which is quite naive. Ray Loewe11:04Yeah. Wow. I mean, you know, you don't think about these things. And I guess this is the advantage of being able to study sports and of being a sports historian. I'm gonna want to talk quite a bit about this Title 9, because I know that you spend a lot of time writing about that. But before we do that, let's backtrack and let's talk a little bit about your journey here, which I think is an extraordinary one. So you grew up not in the United States, you grew up where?Ying Wushanley11:35In China, in the People's Republic of China, the mainland China. There's another China called the Republic of China, but the Chinese government, Mainland China does not recognize it. That's why there was a big fuss about Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan recently, because communists believe it's part of mainland China, even though in reality it isn't.Ray Loewe12:04So you grew up being raised by two women, is that correct?Ying Wushanley12:10That's right, mainly because my father was a high military officer, officially. And in the nationalists coming down, you know, you heard of Chiang Kai-shek, who was the head of the nationalists before 1949, when the Chinese Communist took over China, the mainland, so the nationalists fled to Taiwan, which is where they still are until today.Ray Loewe12:42Okay, and so your father basically was put in jail because he was on the wrong side?Ying Wushanley12:48Yeah, more than 32 years altogether from 1950 to 1985.Ray Loewe12:56Wow. Okay. And you were raised by two women, and what was the effect that they had on your life? I mean, here you are, you're very much into sports, you're very much into things that you would think Dad would do, right?Ying Wushanley13:10Yeah, that's right. Even though my dad was quite athletic, but my mother was much better athlete. I would say she is all an around athlete and in almost every sport, she could get her hands on. But she even flew glider in late 30s and early 40s, so at the time that Amelia Earhart was flying around the world.Ray Loewe13:36Okay, so you grew up, you went to college in Shanghai?Ying Wushanley13:42Yes, that was after the Cultural Revolution ended, from 1966 to 1976 under Mao Zedong. And there was no college in China for 10 years officially. Not the normal university. The university was running but the students were not academically selected. But Deng Xiaoping in 1977 revived higher education. So I, at the time I was working out of a state-run farm in the outskirts of Shanghai. So I had the opportunity to take the entrance exam and became the first  member of a first class of university students. I was playing soccer before I went to the farm, but because of my family's political background, I could not continue.Ray Loewe14:36Okay. So you when you got your degree, or what did you major in Shanghai?Ying Wushanley14:42I majored in physical education at the Shanghai Normal University and then after graduation, I started teaching as a physical education instructor at the Shanghai Foreign Language School. It's quite a prestigious school in Shanghai, in China today, it still is. And after six and a half years teaching there I came to the United States.Ray Loewe15:09All right, so what motivated you? You know, how did you get here? Ying Wushanley15:13Mostly I was trying to escape the political persecution directly or indirectly because of my family's background. And my brother, my older brother, was at the time the leader of the pro-democracy movement in China.Ray Loewe15:30Okay, well, we'll catch up with your brother in a minute. Okay, so you came here, and you went to the West Coast of the United States?Ying Wushanley15:38Right, I was admitted by three institutions. Washington State University, Chapel Hill in North Carolina, and Purdue. But the Washington State admission came first and I grabbed it right away. I didn't care which school I was going to, I'm leaving China. That was most important for me.Ray Loewe16:01Okay. And you were here, now your mother, your aunt, the rest of your family is still back in China at this point in time?Ying Wushanley16:08Yeah. That's right.Ray Loewe16:09All right. So here you are, you're on the West Coast and you picked a major, and what did you choose to major in to get your Master's degree?Ying Wushanley16:16Masters in physical education, the focus on sport administration at the time it was called.Ray Loewe16:22Okay. And you were saying you had a friend there that caused you to then move to Pennsylvania?Ying Wushanley16:28Pennsylvania, Penn State, I was admitted as a graduate doctorate candidate.Ray Loewe16:36And you came here and you're still in education, still in physical education to a large extent, but you're also majoring in sports history.Ying Wushanley16:46Yeah, the department is Exercise and Sport Sciences. But my focus was history of sport and physical education. Ray Loewe16:57Okay. So now you are a doctor. Dr. Wu at the time. Were you married at the time?Ying Wushanley17:05No. We were married in 93 when I was still at Penn State,Ray Loewe17:12Okay. Now, to show everybody what a renaissance man you are here and what an equal rights person you are here, let's talk about your name and talk about your bride and talk about what happened here.Ying Wushanley17:25My wife's name was Geraldine Shanley, my name was Ying Wu Woo when we met and before we got married, though when we got married as well. But we became naturalized and became American citizens in 1999 and my wife in 2000. And when we did the official paperwork and we had the right to choose, to decide our name, so we chose on these names. Actually, our first daughter was born with the name we decided so we created a new name, Wushanley. Shanley is Irish and from the county Leitrim, and Wu is a more common Chinese name.Ray Loewe18:16Okay, so how many Wuhanley's are there now? Ying Wushanley18:20Four.Ray Loewe18:20There are four of you in the whole world.Ying Wushanley18:22That's right. Yeah, my wife and me and our two daughters. Yeah.Ray Loewe18:27Okay. Well, this will explain to a large extent why you spent so much time talking about women's sports and Title Nine and, and getting into all of that stuff because we have with us a true Renaissance man here, ladies. I mean, you're gonna want to know this guy. But talk to us a little bit about Title Nine, what it did for women and what it didn't do for women.Ying Wushanley18:51Okay. Well, Title Nine we should know, this year is the 50th anniversary of the passage of Title Nine of the Education Amendments of their act in 1972. So it's the 50th anniversary now. What Title Nine intended was to eliminate all kinds of the sex and discriminations in education activities where the institution received federal financial aid. So for example, Millersville University, not Millersville College anymore, receives any form of financial aid from the federal government, that law applies to Millersville. Basically, most universities and colleges in the country need to be in compliance. The intent of the Title was to change history in terms of opportunities previously and think about in your time even more that not too many women got the opportunity to go to law schools, to engineering schools, to medical schools. But nowadays, if you look at, it's almost half half, and that's the biggest intension. Now, most people think on Title Nine as related to athletics, so I will deal with athletics. Probably it wasn't even in the mind of the people who proposed that law, but it became manifested in athletics, because discrimination in terms of ability, you know, athletic sports is most reflective in terms of how one is discriminated. Well, we have separate men's and women's sports teams or competitions for good reason. Because physically or physiologically, there's a significant difference, you cannot compete together. If you put them together, then not too many women will make the men's team, at least as of now, because the ability. And that's why Title Nine affected college athletics the most. What did it do? It did a great thing to women's athletics because for example, the University of Maryland before Title Nine, the budget for athletics was like 99% went to men's and 1% went to women's if that much. Today, the budget probably is still not equal, but much closer. The program for example, at Millersville, we have probably 21 or 22 teams, and 12 - 13 - 14 are women's teams, for the reason of having equal or close to proportionally the ratio that represents the student body because Millersville is probably 53% women. So the good thing it did is it increased the opportunity for women to compete in college sports. What it did in terms of what perceived as damage to women's control of intercollegiate athletics is because before title nine women had total control of their entire women's college sports. It was separate from the men's, men's under the NCAA, women's under another organization called the AIAW Association for Women's Intercollegiate Athletics.  And now, after Title Nine, the NCAA started to offer opportunities to both men and women because most institutions didn't want to have within Millersville, for example, have a separate department athletic department for men, for women have different rules. And the different rules is the problem. You can be sued for not treating your students equally. So after Title Nine, most universities will merge the departments, men's and women's, into one. And you can guess easily if those merge, who would be the athletic director most likely. Because men used to have this and just our society is still a male-dominated society, even today. But then women did not have control anymore, because, before Title Nine, they had total control, they don't have to deal with men, they will not allow men to come into coach or to be the director. Now, Title Nine says you cannot discriminate anyone. And the people often think, you cannot discriminate anyone, you cannot discriminate against a woman, you cannot discriminate against the man either.Ray Loewe23:56But it's changed the way sports laid out because today you see the big colleges, universities dominating women's sports. I remember days back when we had a little school right outside of Philadelphia over here that just absolutely dominated women's basketball.Ying Wushanley24:14Yeah, Arcadia University. Yeah, they won the first two national championships on the AIAW.Ray Loewe24:22So, you get some good things and you lose some good things.Ying Wushanley24:25Well, it depends on how you see it. The AIAW wants to have combined organization, have 50-50 share of the power. The NCAA being it's so dominant in terms of its tradition, power, and its financial resources, they wouldn't want to share. I know it's not right but it's also kind of logical and you can understand a big company merges with a small company and all of a sudden these two companies have to share exactly the resources, probably it won't happen.Ray Loewe25:02All right, unfortunately, we're getting near the end of our conversation here. And I want to get back to one more important thing in your life. I think what you've been able to show us to a large extent is, here you are, you're in China, a place that you want to get out to. You came to the United States, we can almost say you escaped, right? And, you built a life for yourself that's exciting, along things that were enjoyable to you and interesting. And if Ying can do this, the rest of us can do this, too. We just need to know where we want to go and what we want to do. But there's another element here that I want to make sure everybody knows about, and that's your brother. So, your brother stayed behind in China when you left? And what was he involved in and what happened to him?Ying Wushanley25:56Well, he was involved in the pro-democracy movement in China, started in the late 70s. And he became a leader once he got involved. So he's devoted to human rights and democracy in China. Of course, it wasn't easy. But he was detained, put into prison labor for four years from 1980 to 84. And I came to the States in 1988. At Washington State and Penn State, and then I started teaching at Ithaca College. And, you know, my mother died in 89 unfortunately. And my father was living with a relative after he was released for various circumstances. So my brother was the only one, the only person I really know, and I was concerned about his well-being. So I said, you can continue your pro-democracy movement. But I feel much more comfortable if you can come to a country where you have more freedom to do it. And so I don't have to have nightmares every night. So he agreed to come. So in the summer of 1994, just about when I was going to start at Ithaca College, he decided to come. I enrolled him in the English program for second language, foreign language at Penn State, then he hopped onto the plane, but did not arrive in JFK where the local media, or the Chinese media, was waiting for him because they knew he was coming. So he disappeared. And for 11 days, we didn't know his whereabouts. He did not hop onto the Korean airline where he was supposed to board. 11 days later, the Chinese authorities admitted they had him just for interrogation, didn't want to let him go, just because there are some unsorted issues. I started campaigning in the State College with my advisors, families, and friends, and it became an international campaign to rescue him. Eventually, the President of the United States at the time, Bill Clinton, and every senator was involved. Hundreds of representatives involved in terms of demanding, writing letters. Media like the BBC. Reuters News, New York Times, Philadelphia Inquirer, I remember all those media interviewed us reported. I made it big just because I know what happened in China for political prisoners, they can disappear and you never find out where they went. I wanted the world to know so that he wouldn't disappear. And that seemed to have worked and I was told indirectly that I should not continue this campaign because it wasn't good for the image of China. I said, all I want is for you to release him and I will stop my campaign. And 50 days later, they sent him onto a United Flight and told him never to go back to China again. And he hasn't.Ray Loewe29:27And he lives now, he's on the west coast in the United States? Ying Wushanley29:31Oakland. Yeah. Ray Loewe29:32And a happy ending.Ying Wushanley29:34Yeah, he's okay. He still lives happily there. Well, he lived in Ithica for a while, but after the first winter, he figured that's not what he liked. Because he had meetings in San Francisco, he liked the weather they had. So he likes comfort as well.Ray Loewe29:49Well, you know, thank you for being with us. You know, we're over our time limit so we're going to have to end this but again, Ying Wushanley, a Renaissance man, one of the few people you'll ever meet that combines names with his wife. And thanks for sharing the history of sport with us, and I can see why you get excited about it. And we'll continue to see you in the swimming pool. And just, you know, thanks again for being here. You're obviously one of the luckiest people in the world. And thanks again. Steve, sign us off, please.Outro  30:32Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules. Join us next week for more conversation, our special guest, and to hear more from the luckiest guy in the world.

Vice Admiral Sandra Stosz, US Coast Guard retired, was the first woman to command an icebreaker on the Great Lakes and to lead a US Armed Forces service academy. She served for 40 years in many leadership roles on land and at sea. Sandy, as she asked me to call her, is the author of Breaking Ice and Breaking Glass: Leading in Uncharted Waters.  When Sandy was considering her post-high school plans, she learned about the option to attend the U.S. Naval Academy, thanks to the passage of the Equal Rights Amendment and the implementation of Title Nine, which required the military to open their service academies to women. Sandy was immediately intrigued by the potential opportunity to see the world and be a part of something bigger than herself while securing a free post-secondary education. Just a few years prior, this would not have been possible for a female. In order to apply to the Naval Academy, Sandy needed a nomination from a member of Congress, which she was able to secure for admission. Her guidance counselor suggested that she not put all of her eggs in one basket, however. Sandy received a Coast Guard Academy flyer in the mail, and their admission process was based more directly on her merits. She was accepted into the Coast Guard Academy and decided to attend it because “I wanted to go to a school and join a service that values me for what I know, not who I know.” Sandy started out in the US Coast Guard as an ensign, serving aboard polar icebreakers conducting national security missions from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Her 40-year career was filled with leadership lessons. Sandy served for 12 years at sea, commanding two ships and led large Coast Guard organizations during times of crisis and complexity. She finished her career as the first woman assigned as Deputy Commandant for Mission Support, directing one of the Coast Guard's largest enterprises. In 2012, Newsweek's The Daily Beast named Sandy to their list of 150 women who shake the world. In this week's Work From The Inside Out podcast, learn more about Sandra's journey: Sandy volunteers in leadership roles, including as chair of the Coast Guard Academy Sailing Council and as a trustee for the Coast Guard Academy Institute for Leadership. She lectures widely on leadership and has been featured on C-Span and in other media. Learn more and connect with Sandra here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-stosz-584a652b/ https://www.facebook.com/sandy.stosz https://twitter.com/SandraStosz https://sandrastosz.com

There is a small mention of Ukraine this weeks episode plus research that must be done in order to understand the next update, on next weeks show dealing with the Warsaw Speech. Project Veritas was contacted by Microsoft stating that secret warrants were issued. It gets worse from there. What is going on? Brown Jackson has two issues that disqualifies her from being a Supreme Court Justice. Find out which two. The NCAA, Title Nine, and the obvious case of swimming. But is has nothing to do with swimming. It has everything to do with how men are treated in modern western and semi-western societies - as a threat in all forms and in all ways. We will explain. The religion that the Democratic social world view is bringing about? Find out how they use aspects of Christianity to do so. News you missed, a condolences and a sickening act and a preview of The 22nd Century. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/beyondthisearth/message

Hello Interactors,The Olympics are in full swing. I admit I’m staying up later than I probably should be, but I’m a sucker for the Olympics. Yes it’s strange seeing a white strip of snow down a brown windy hill or watching big air competitions against a dystopian industrial waste site, but hey, that’s Beijing! But maybe I’m being too judgmental. Surely there’s more than meets the eye.As interactors, you’re special individuals self-selected to be a part of an evolutionary journey. You’re also members of an attentive community so I welcome your participation.Please leave your comments below or email me directly.Now let’s go…THE GU GLUEJubilant in her successful landing, the Chinese skier put on the brakes spraying snow over the blue padded barriers as the camera centered her in the frame. She had just landed her first jump in the Olympics’ big air competition. She pulled off her goggles and beamed a big, immaculate toothy smile into the camera. My first thought was, “This girl is not Chinese.” I had never heard of Eileen Gu, but that was about to change.She had just landed a right double 1440. That’s four full gravity defying rotations in the air after descending a hill 20 stories high and then launching off a curved ramp pointed to the sky. She was the first woman to land a similar double cork 1440 just two months prior. That prompted the French skier, Tess Ledeux, to counter in January by being the first woman to land a 1620 – four and a half rotations.Ledeux managed to land that same jump in her opening run at the Olympics in Beijing earlier this week and held the top spot until Gu’s third and final jump. While Gu was at the top waiting her turn, her mom called from the stands at the bottom of the hill. Yan Gu introduced Eileen to skiing in Lake Tahoe where she sometimes worked as a ski instructor. She told her daughter to play it safe and stick to the 1440. Eileen responded, “Mom, executive call here, vetoed. I am going to make the 16, and you are going to deal with it.”After visualizing the trick when her eyes closed, arms swaying, shoulders jerking, like a dog running in their sleep, she aimed her skis down the slope. High in the sky, confident in her 1620 launch, Gu grabbed the bottom of her ski – a safety grab – a trick she had never attempted before this run. She landed triumphantly and the judges launched her into first place. As she threw her fist in the air in celebration it was rewarded with a loud cheer from the Chinese fans sprinkled throughout the stadium. Her mom, of course, being one of them.Yan Gu was born in Shanghai and grew up in Beijing. The Olympics are in her home town. Her mom, Eileen’s grandmother, still lives there. When Yan was in her twenties, she did what many other Chinese students did, and continue to do. She sought an education in America. After receiving a degree in chemistry from Peking University in Beijing, she enrolled in a master’s program in biochemistry and molecular biology at Auburn University in the late 80s. She went on to be a research associate at Rockefeller University before going on to earn an MBA at Stanford in 1994. She now works at an investment firm in San Francisco where she specializes in Chinese investments.The director of an extreme outdoor sports high school in Mt. Hood Oregon, Mike Hanley, said “Yan is very pleasant but one of the most intense human beings I have ever met in my life. She smiles and tells you how great you are. But then you find out, after the fact, what the requests are. She loves her daughter and wants her daughter to get priority.”Getting priority attention from coaches and trainers in America means paying more money. Extorsion? Maybe. But money talks. Yan, a single parent, was willing to pay whatever it took to secure the right training to match her daughter’s ability and her own drive to insure her child’s success. Not many parents of talented kids can afford to do this without striking deals with big name extreme sports brands, like Red Bull or Burton, on behalf of their kids. Child labor? Maybe. But it pays the bills.But Yan has been off the hook for paying much at all since her daughter started striking her own lucrative modelling and endorsement contracts. She’s was a millionaire before hitting 18. She not only landed Red Bull, but Cadillac, Apple’s Beats by Dre headphones, Tiffany’s, Louis Vuitton and Victoria’s Secret. Those are some big names. But in China she’s also paid to represent the Bank of China, China Mobile, a milk company, and Starbucks of China. She is estimated to command $2.5 million per deal. With over 20 modelling, spokesperson, and endorsement deals she must be worth over $50 million dollars at age 18. And that was before she won the gold medal.In addition to being beautiful, talented, and rich, she is also smart. She scored 1580 on the SAT out of a perfect score of 1600, was the first to graduate early at her private high school in the Bay area, and will attend Stanford next fall. Oh, and did I mention she plays the piano and was one of the top distance runners in the state of California before turning her attention to the Olympics? She is what overly competitive parents the world over wish their kids to be. Sorry kids of demanding parents, Eileen has set the bar high. And for Eileen, good luck living through the onslaught of Western chauvinism, racism, and ethnocentrism. Not to mention a healthy dose of wealth, ability, and beauty resentment and jealousy.Gu decided, supposedly with her mother’s urging, to compete for China three years ago when she turned 15. She had grown up fluidly splitting her time between China and Chinese language and culture and the U.S. and American culture. As she said in a press conference this week, “in the US, I’m American, and when I’m in China, I’m Chinese”. But reporters, mostly male, weren’t satisfied with the answer. The English sports reporter, Oliver Brown, thought that line was “a cute line, but sadly impractical, for the simple reason that China does not recognise dual citizenship.” Gu refuses to indulge reporters on admitting whether or not she renounced her U.S. citizenship or whether the Chinese government made an exception for the girl the Chinese media call “Snow Princess”. Insistence by Western media, and many others, on making a bi-racial teenage woman pick one side or the other will likely not relent any time soon.REPRESENTATION ORIENTATIONI’m reflecting on my own initial reaction to learning Gu wasn’t representing America. My first thought, like many, is she’s a product of American culture, education, coaching, and lavish ski schools and resorts. Other athletes are saying the same thing. Jen Haduk, a Winter X Games gold medalist and a former member of the U.S.A Women’s team, told the New York Post that “[Eileen Gu] became the athlete she is because she grew up in the United States, where she had access to premier training grounds and coaching that, as a female, she might not have had in China…I think she would be a different skier if she grew up in China. This makes me sad.”Eileen Gu admits the access she had to snow, coaching, and opportunity allowed her to pursue her dreams and potential. In an interview on NBC, they show her giving a speech in middle school on the impact Title Nine had on women and sport. She also reveals in that interview that every trick she learned in America she took to China where throngs of young Chinese girls were eager to learn from her.A Chinese-American girl fluent in Mandarin teaching Chinese girls to do tricks on skis also helped her become the athlete she is. Eileen Gu would not have been the skier she is had she grown up in China, but Chinese girls will now grow up trying to become the skier she is. And you can bet the Chinese government will see to it they have what they need to succeed. In fact, some believe it was the money and support China offered Eileen Gu three years ago that may have contributed to her decision to represent that country. An offer the American team I’m sure could not match. Another Yan Gu deal made on behalf of her daughter? Perhaps. But you can bet other parents of bi-racial or dual citizenship kids would be tempted to do the same.Eileen Gu was born with rare athletic abilities. She was also born fearless. It was one of the reasons her mother made sure she had ski lessons. She could see as a young child that her daughter lacked the kind of fear most of us have skiing fast down a mountain of snow and ice. After suffering a concussion as a young teenager on a practice run, an injury that put her out of commission for a week, she couldn’t wait to get back to jumping. These natural abilities cannot be taught regardless of where you grow up.And we shouldn’t be so quick to diminish Eileen’s lived experience as a Chinese-American routinely visiting her family in China. While it has only accounted for five or six years of the 18 she’s been alive, it’s undeniably part of who she is, what she does, how she thinks, and what she believes. But I, like so many others, didn’t consider that in my initial reaction and judgement of Eileen Gu. I jumped to seeing her as representing a country and only after did I question my reaction and come to see her as a human being.As geographers Alan Latham and David Conradson wrote in 2003, even the field of human geography is “Dominated by an obsession with the politics of representation.” Little interest has historically been given to “considerations of the place, or the productiveness, of practice” by individual human beings.By seeing Eileen Gu as Chinese-American, bi-racial, or dual citizen can lead to objectification and categorization. There is a growing understanding and recognition in the social sciences that race categories often lead to either feelings of fear or desire. For example, unkept asylum seekers crossing the border from Latin America may elicit fear leading many to want to kick them out. Meanwhile, a super-model, Chinese-American, Olympic gold medal athlete elicits a desire to claim her as ‘theirs’.As we sit and watch Eileen Gu smile for the camera after performing death defying feats with sublime grace or see a magazine cover graced with her face, we are reduced to dwelling on her race. Those of us in the West have grown up being barraged with pictures, paintings, movies, comics, and text that portrays races different from our own in insufficient and often inaccurate ways. For China and the Chinese it’s a form of Orientalism. The word Orient is derived from a Latin word oriēns which can mean anything originating from the East, including the sky, sun, or lands and people East of Europe. Orient was thought of as the East and it’s antonym, Occident, was thought of as the West.This word and it’s denotations and connotations allowed Western scholars, writers, artists, and designers to divide the world between ‘us’, the West, and ‘them’ the East. The Orient was portrayed as a place far away with exotic customs, cultures, and people – ‘Other-than’ or ‘Other-worldly’; a place to be explored, conquered, and diminished. Consequently, its people were portrayed as ‘Others’ who were to be either ‘saved’, slaved, exploited, or killed.  It’s a portrayal that continues to this day.James Bond is the suave savior from the West who is shaken by exotic foreigners but stirred to action through acts of either violence or sex. And while we know it’s fiction, it’s filmed in a pseudo-authentic way that often includes a wink or a nod from Bond into the camera. Indiana Jones does the same thing. Steven Spielberg told it’s creator, George Lucas, it’s a “James Bond film without the hardware.”MIND AND BODY EQUALITYThe late Jamaican-British sociologist, Stuart Hall led efforts beginning in the 1960s to include race and gender in the scholarship of cultural studies. He observed in 1993 that social scientists, including post-colonial geographers, continue to downplay the role text, images, and symbols play in how we relate to the representation of cultures foreign to Western tradition. He believed representation should be considered within a wider cultural context. Hall believed the “processes of artistic production and ownership, use of media technologies, practices of distribution, government legislation and regulation, as well as different forms of audience consumption across the globe, influence how an image is ‘read’ and understood.”For highly produced imagery like Bond films or pictures of Eileen Gu in an advertisement, there is an intent by the producer of the image to encode a particular message to the viewer. But how viewers then decode and interpret that message is as variable and complex as humanity itself. The geographical context that informs an individual consumer’s identity influences the meaning of that message.The imagery in Bond Films or stylized photos of Gu also don’t provide a voice to the displaced or marginalized people that make up the bulk of these ‘foreign’ populations. The West can use the power of imagery to impose meaning which only perpetuates the idea that the West controls the rest. ‘We’ hold dominion over ‘them’. As geographer Anoop Nayak puts it, “The power of whiteness to continually narrate the existence of racialised Others is a violent reminder of the privilege that comes with being located as the architects and inheritors of modernity.”Eileen Gu just may be fashioning these Western media mechanisms into a weapon of her own. She has the potential to use her talent, intelligence, and good looks – and the dominant Western style media platforms – to give voice to those in China who do not. If we’re to believe Eileen Gu, she wants to inspire and empower young Chinese-born girls to use sport as a way to give them a voice. She knows they don’t have Title Nine to help them in China, so she’s using her Chinese language skills and her individual beauty, elegance, intelligence, and grace as a substitute. All under a Chinese flag. She is using the media tools of traditional Western domination not to hush or misconstrue but to crush what oppresses young girls so they can see what they can do.Eileen is outspoken and well spoken. She’s come out against increased Asian hate crime in America and supports the BLM movement. But she remains silent on human rights abuses in China. This really bothers people. Especially reporters. Meanwhile Tesla sells more cars in China than anywhere in the world. Where are the calls for Elon Musk to speak out? Microsoft was the first software company allowed to open an office in China around the same time Eileen’s mom was coming to America. It remains a highly productive, innovative, and influential subsidiary for Microsoft. I’ve witnessed myself. I don’t see reporters demanding Satya Nadella or Bill Gates to come out against China. Eileen, just like Elon, Satya, and Bill, know that to do so means disadvantaging their chances for influence from inside China.  Could it be that these Western, mostly male, reporters only see Gu as a two-dimensional, bi-racial American girl? Are they put off by how she expertly and effortlessly dodges their questions? Are they frustrated they can’t dominate this woman, this girl, this Asian-American who can look and sound Western one moment and Chinese the next? When the British reporter Oliver Brown writes how her well crafted and practiced line, “in the US, I’m American, and when I’m in China, I’m Chinese”, came across as ‘cute’ to him, is that not only condescending but patronizing, paternalistic, and misogynist? And did he not politicize, objectify, and perhaps ‘Orientalize’ her by insisting her words were “sadly impractical, for the simple reason that China does not recognise dual citizenship.”? There is nothing simple about any of this.And am I guilty of doing the same when my first reaction was to judge her on her appearance without knowing anything about her, her life, her family, her culture, or her intentions?Who knows what her real citizenship is. Maybe China turned a blind eye to their policy that refuses dual-citizenship. It’s a practical move on their part if it means they get a world renowned Snow Princess Chinese ambassador out of it. I wouldn’t put it passed Eileen and her mom to scheme and arrange such a deal. Her mom is a professional Chinese deal maker, after all. Just as Musk, Nadella, and Gates are. Who knows what arrangements these successful Western businessmen have with China, but you can bet they’re practical.When the ski coach from Oregon – who knows a thing or two about dealing with Eileen and her mom – was pressed on what he thought of Eileen choosing to ski for China he said, “It’s a decision that seems practical and pragmatic, just like every decision she makes.”In the 1880s and 1890s, a French aristocrat interested in the history and sociology of sport toured America and England learning about sports administration. His name was Pierre de Coubertin. He was particularly fascinated by rugby. He believed it best demonstrated how “organised sport can create moral and social strength” and how it could “help to set the mind and body in equilibrium”. As a former rugby player, I concur.He took his learnings back home and with the help of the French government organized the first Olympic committee in 1894. By 1896 the first modern Olympic games took place in Athens. It attracted the largest contingent of international athletes of the time.As I watch the remainder of the Olympics I’m trying to see through the media veils that distort and disorient portrayals of people. Instead of being just another American rooting for Americans, I’m marveling at the athletically gifted, courageous, and tenacious humans participating in ‘organized sports that have shaped their moral strength.’ Maybe if we all do that together we can also build social strength. Watching Eileen Gu twirl through the air while dodging the admonishing stare can be dizzying — and then some. But seeing her as a human first and an athlete second sets my mind and body in equilibrium.Thanks for reading Interplace! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. Subscribe at interplace.io

In Ep. #20, Caroline sits down with Missy Park, the CEO & Founder of Title Nine. Title Nine is an American manufacturer of clothing for women athletes. Missy founded Title Nine in 1989, and has grown the brand to become the largest independently-owned and operated retailer of women's fitness clothing. Title Nine's mission is to encourage women to own, risk, and lead in the world of sports, business, and beyond.In this episode, Missy tells the story of how she came to start Title Nine, and how the company has spent 32 years in the business of putting women first. Most recently, Missy and her team gave $1 million to the soccer players of the U.S. Women's National Team in an effort to help close the gender pay gap for the team. By the numbers, the U.S. Women's National Team is the most successful team in the history of international women's soccer, winning four Women's World Cup titles, four Olympic gold medals, an Olympic bronze medal, and eight CONCACAF Gold Cups. They just made it onto podium at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, and took home the bronze medal. And they're currently ranked #1 in the world by FIFA. On the other side of that coin, the United States Men's National Soccer Team has never won a World Cup, they've never won any Olympic medal, and they're currently ranked 20th in world. YET, players on the US Women's National Team earn $9,000 less per win than the Men's team, and over a 5-year period, the women have been paid $64 million less than their male counterparts. Essentially, is that players on the women's national team make 38 cents for every dollar that their male counterparts make. After watching the documentary "LFG" in 2021, Missy was moved to write the biggest check in the history of Title Nine. Title Nine's donation of $1 million to the USWNT players to put the women's team on the same pay scale as the USMNT for six games of the 2020 Olympics. This episode was recorded on August 10, 2021. More from GOALS The Business Case For Women's Sports Newsletter: Sign-upFollow GOALS on Twitter: @goals_sports_Follow GOALS on Instagram: @goals_sports_Follow GOALS on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/goals-sportsShop: goals-sports.com/shopEmail: hello@goals-sports.com

Cultural critic Laura Kipnis is revered, even beloved, for her bold, counterintuitive observations about aesthetics in art, sexual politics, moral ambiguity, and the complexities of human relationships. Her 2003 book Against Love: A Polemic explored the hypocrisies and reductive logic behind the monogamy industrial complex. Her latest book, Love In The Time of Contagion: A Diagnosis, is a follow up of sorts to Against Love. Born out of the chaos of the Covid-19 pandemic and Laura's lockdown experience with her longtime boyfriend, the book examines how the cracks in interpersonal relationships can mirror the breakdown of political systems, economies, cultural life and public trust. In this conversation, Laura talks with Meghan about what she learned from interviewing dozens of people who were locked down with their romantic partners—or in some cases their soon to be ex-partners—during the first year of the pandemic. They also talk about the evolving  legacy of the #MeToo movement, the impact of online pornography, the role of alcohol in life and in love, and “BDE” or so-called Big Dick Energy. Laura also reflects on the aftermath of the events described in her previous book, Unwanted Advances, which chronicled a journey through the campus court system after students at her university filed Title Nine charges against her for publishing an article that they claimed created a “hostile environment.”   Guest Bio:   Laura Kipnis is a cultural critic and the author of seven books, including Unwanted Advances: Sexual Paranoia Comes to Campus; Men: Notes from an Ongoing Investigation; How to Become A Scandal; Against Love: A Polemic; The Female Thing: Dirt, Sex, Envy, Vulnerability; and Bound and Gagged: Pornography and the Politics of Fantasy in America. Her latest book, Love in the Time of Contagion: A Diagnosis, is out February, 8 2022 from Pantheon.

This week we feature the South Perry District of Spokane. We have a featured property: 1829 E 14th ave, an updated bungalow home priced in the lower 200's! Jessica gives us some historical insights into the Perry District and how it became such a wonderful community. A few of our favorite restaurants and shops: Wisconsin Burger, South Perry Pizza, Casper Fry, The Lantern, Perry Street Brewing, Meeting House Café, The Grain Shed, The Shop, The Bike Hub, Wishing Tree Books, Title Nine, Liberty Park Florist and Roots Salon. You won't want to miss the amazing Grant Park and the Thursday Farmers Market in the summer which is growing each year! More info on South Perry here- https://www.visitspokane.com/about/districts/south-perry-district/ Check out the Thursday Market- https://www.thursdaymarket.org/

As an avid athlete and college basketball player, Missy Park was lucky to grow up during the early era of Title IX, the 1972 law that created new opportunities for young women to play sports. But in the years before Lululemon and Athleta, activewear for women was either ill-fitting or non-existent. So in 1989—with little experience in apparel or retail—Missy decided to launch a female version of Nike. She sent out a mail order catalog of running shorts, tights, and (at the last minute) sports bras; naming her company for the law that had opened doors for her to compete: Title Nine. Over the years, the company kept "hitting singles," eventually growing into a $100 million dollar business without ever taking outside investment. Today, Missy remains the sole owner.

Bethany took too much melatonin and dreamt that her family was planning on murdering the beloved film star of 'Coyote Ugly,' John Goodman! Then, Kathleen is all up in arms about people who eat meals off of black plates. Pushing people out of windows comes up as well in this loosey-goosey bonus. Finally, Bethany admits that she needs the help of a professional friend-haver... How does one make friends without seeming too desperate? It's ALL. SO. COMPLICATED. ------ Check out our merch! —> https://store.dftba.com/collections/an-acquired-taste-podcast Join our Patreon! —> https://www.patreon.com/acquiredtaste  ------ Please support the companies that support us! Title Nine - These are the shorts Kathleen and Bethany are in love with! Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/TASTE!

Season 3 Part 2.  In this episode, we help you go farther. Beginning with short 1-3 hour walks, we are moving into the realm of hiking all day and building up some distance. We talk about clothing including rain gear, base-layers, and why to avoid cotton. The right gear can really make the difference: we go into depth about what to wear and how to outfit your family so that everyone can focus on the fun and not being miserable. We are also going to give some basic first aid tips - always seek expert advice when you get the chance. This is all in an effort to get you the skills and knowledge you need to feel comfortable pushing farther into the outdoors with your adventures. Born To Be Adventurous  These are links to some of the items that we mentioned in this episode. We do have an Affiliated Relationship with some of these companies. This means that they help support the channel if you purchase something using our link. It doesn't cost you anything and it does make a BIG difference for us. Thank You!  Please Visit our website (Link is below) to see our gear links!! KeywordAdventure.com  App Links (not affiliated)  All Trails (https://www.alltrails.com)  Trail Forks (https://www.trailforks.com) Affiliated Links Adventure Clothing   - Backcountry.com   - Eddie Bauer   - Title Nine   - REI Merino Wool Socks   - Backcountry.com Hiker's First Aid Book: My Medic Stay Alive Guide   - Amazon Link First Aid Kits   - My Medic Moleskin Blister Kit   - REI  Favorite Trekking Poles   - Black Diamond  LOTS MORE INFO AND LINKS FOR AWESOME OUTDOOR PRODUCTS ON OUR WEBSITE --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/keywordadventure/message

The show where the Ice Cream Team go through all the geeky "need to know" video game news from around the globe every weekday from 10am UK Time, live over on Twitch.tv/IceCreamUploads. Title: Dr Disrespect Is Suing Twitch For Permanently Banning Him Last Year Website: The gamer Author: JOSH COULSON https://www.thegamer.com/dr-disrespect-suing-twitch-ban/ Title: Nine years later, Kingdoms of Amalur staff receive final paycheck Website: Eurogamer Author: Tom Phillips https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-08-23-nine-years-later-kingdoms-of-amalur-staff-receive-final-paycheck Title: Goals The new Triple A Football Game that wants to compete with FIFA. It will be Free to Play Website: FifaUltimateTeam.it Author: FifaUltimateTeam.it - UK https://www.fifaultimateteam.it/en/goals-the-new-triple-a-football-game-that-wants-to-compete-with-fifa-it-will-be-free-to-play/ Title: Pokemon Legends: Arceus Will Include A Crafting System Website: The Gamer Author: JOSHUA ROBERTSON https://www.thegamer.com/pokemon-legends-arceus-crafting/ Title: EA has made five of its accessibility patents free for any studio to use Website: VGC Author: Chris Scullion https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/ea-has-made-five-of-its-accessibility-patents-free-for-any-studio-to-use/ Join the conversation via all our Social Media Platforms or via the live chat! Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/icecreamuploads Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/icecreamuploads Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/icecreamuploads Website - http://www.icecreamuploads.com Discord - https://discord.com/invite/Fckwtub Like the content? Support us by buying our merch!

It's 8 am and Kathleen and Bethany are waking up to delightful conversations about whether those “vintage” carpets on Etsy are really vintage or just old Anthropologie, why you should double-check your hospital bills to make sure you didn't get a circumcision, and what kind of funeral looks to order from your loved ones.  ------ Check out our merch! —> https://store.dftba.com/collections/an-acquired-taste-podcast  ------ Please support the companies that support us!  Title Nine - Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/TASTE 

Time Stamps:  0:00 - We should've been in the Olympics 3:57 - Hi Friends! 4:12 - Janelle's jury duty  9:07 - Why we were gone last week 17:31 - Mila Kunis & Ashton Kutcher bathing controversy  21:30 - We love Simone Biles 30:57 - DaBaby is DaCringe 42:06 - High school loverrrrs Thank you sponsors! Stitch Fix https://bit.ly/3wJHP51 | Athena Club https://bit.ly/38xLiJU code sesh | Title Nine https://bit.ly/3vF1kuW | Honey https://bit.ly/3rUuZAg  Listen on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3fjR2s1 Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3go1X5s Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/3fCx7H3  Follow us on social media @the_seshpodcast  IG: https://bit.ly/3a9t6Xr TW: https://bit.ly/2XH4C2A Join our Discord! https://discord.gg/42mAfe6  Kendall: @kendallraeonyt IG: https://bit.ly/3gIQPjI TW: https://bit.ly/2XLsLFn YT: https://bit.ly/3abKWsS Janelle: @janelle_fields_ IG: https://bit.ly/2DyP1eE TW: https://bit.ly/2DrboD1 Sydney: @barnesy51 IG: https://bit.ly/3vfWo0g  Karelly: @karell.y IG: https://bit.ly/2TcxnoD  TW: https://bit.ly/3f9ngcN  Kendall's New CBD Brand, Higher Love Wellness: https://higherlovewellness.com/   Music By: Mile Higher Boys YT: https://bit.ly/3fJrDZ8 IG: https://bit.ly/3kDle5s ✉ Send Us Mail & Art ✉ 8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J # 233 Greenwood Village, CO 80112   Welcome to The Sesh Podcast hosted by cousins and best friends, Kendall & Janelle! Kendall is a YouTube content creator focusing on True Crime and raising awareness for missing persons cases, and Janelle is a mental health professional with a Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Our show is focused on a variety of topics including current events, our personal experiences & sharing advice, mental health, playing games, discussing astrology & spirituality, and hosting guests from time to time. Come hang out with us every Sunday!

Spain tries to pick up the pieces of her life after the Cubs' fire sale. She and Fitz discuss a very busy MLB trade deadline and whether baseball should be cancelled from here on out. Plus, Westbrook to the Lakers, Olympic Quickies, an injured quarterback and a clueless wide receiver. NY Times baseball contributor Scott Miller on the MLB trade deadline, former pitcher-turned artist Blake McFarland from NBC's "Making It" on hanging with Amy Poehler and Nick Offerman, and Title Nine's Missy Park on the USWNT's fight for equal pay. And Spain's husband Brad from TheHeckler.com stops in for a Wellness Check. 

Big news, which means a bonus pod! Founder and CEO of Title Nine, Missy Park, joins the show to discuss her company's one million dollar contribution to the USWNT Players' Association to help close gap for equal pay, plus discusses how watching LFG played a role in this contribution, the Kick In For Equal Pay fund, and how this isn't an ad for Title Nine, but woven into the company's DNA in how they support women.For more on the Kick In For Equal Pay fund: www.KickInForEqualPay.comFollow Title Nine on Twitter: https://twitter.com/titlenineFollow the USWNT Players Association on Twitter: https://twitter.com/USWNTPlayers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Big news, which means a bonus pod! Founder and CEO of Title Nine, Missy Park, joins the show to discuss her company's one million dollar contribution to the USWNT Players' Association to help close gap for equal pay, plus discusses how watching LFG played a role in this contribution, the Kick In For Equal Pay fund, and how this isn't an ad for Title Nine, but woven into the company's DNA in how they support women. For more on the Kick In For Equal Pay fund: www.KickInForEqualPay.com Follow Title Nine on Twitter: https://twitter.com/titlenine Follow the USWNT Players Association on Twitter: https://twitter.com/USWNTPlayers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Loosey Goosey Monday, friends! Bethany is coming clean about a huge (literally) purchase she made that's taking up her entire living room. Kathleen has a “Plan Canceling Excuse” generator to help you cope with the world opening up again. (Pro Tip: don't claim that your family gave you syphilis.) The Pope did WHAAAT in Kathleen's bed? Bethany's new hair is giving us the feels. (Are we allowed to say 'the feels' anymore?) Frank Sinatra is the world's collective secret father. Or is that just R____ F_____? Cheers to a new week. Let's hope it's your best one yet! - - - - - -   Check out our merch! —> https://store.dftba.com/collections/an-acquired-taste-podcast  - - - - - -  What we talked about: “Get Literary” excuses article, by Saimah Haque: https://getliterary.com/7-excuses-ive-made-to-cancel-plans-and-keep-reading/  Canceling plans excuse generator: https://www.instagram.com/p/CRq8jzaLoFX - - - - - -  Please support the companies that support us! Title Nine - These are the shorts Kathleen and Bethany are in love with! Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/TASTE!

We are coming to you from Michigan where we are hosting our first ever Girl's Girls Media Retreat, and a crazy and wild Camp Throwback reunion. Let us catch you up! SPONSORS: Right now you can take $100 off your next beach vacay when you visit CheapCaribbean.com/Girls-Girls. We'll see you on the beach. We want you to start living a happier life today. As a listener, you'll get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/GIRLS. Join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health. Title Nine designs and sells performance outdoor gear and apparel for women on the move. Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/GIRLS.

Thank you Newsstand Studio at 1 Rockefeller Plaza for providing a place for me to record this episode for y'all! No more Brooklyn closet recording!!!   Welcome to the TRC Remix Series #4. If you're not sure what this series is click here for more info!   Today's TRC Remix episode is with Christian Sexologist Dr. Celeste Holbrook. In this conversation we unpack her experience growing up in purity culture, and her painfully awkward experience of having sex for the first time on her wedding day. Dr. Celeste offers insight and challenging questions like: How do we define sex? Why do we define it that way? What is sexuality? How is it different from sensuality? Dr. Celeste is raw, honest, and incredibly helpful in navigating a healthy, shame-free conversation around sex, desire, and pleasure...so here we go!   The Moment They Were Waiting For When she first had sex, it was extremely painful and not enjoyable for her.   "I thought I was going to be rewarded with great sex."   This disconnect between Celeste and her husband began to erode their relationship.   "I felt a lot of shame for not living up to what I thought I should be sexually."   She realized she never had good sex education. She decided to embark on a journey to unlearn shame, and to learn her body in a fresh way.   Deconstructing Sex And Shame   "I went through that process so that I could enter into a sexual space and feel worthy of pleasure and sex that felt good."   After experiencing breakthrough and pain-free sex, she made it her mission to help others in similar circumstances and pivoted from studying behavior to sexual behavior.   "Although it's a natural biological thing, it doesn't come naturally. You have to learn how to do it just like riding a bike."   Madonna Whore Complex: "You're shamed if you have too much sex and you're shamed if you have no sex. There's this pendulum that we can't seem to step out of."   What Is Sexuality? Sexuality is way more than just sex, desire, or physical intimacy.    "Sexuality is far more than that bottom layer of what it looks like biologically."     What Is Sex? A lot of single Christian women are wondering about physical boundaries in sex. 75% of women don't climax from vaginal sex—they climax from clitoral stimulation. Freud told women that to have an orgasm through clitoral stimulation is to be infantile. In 1998, neurologist Helen Connoll put the clitoris into the journal of sexual medicine.   "Limiting the term 'sex' to 'penis' and 'vagina' is marginalizing and produces shame."   Pleasure gets confused with hedonism, but pleasure is acknowledged in Matthew 6:26.   "We can't have a conversation about pleasure and spirituality without having a conversation about sensuality."     What is Sensuality?   "When we think about us as sensual beings, we are literally experiencing the creation and the creator through all five of our senses."   Sensuality can be as simple as being in the moment. We can't experience our senses in the past or future… only the present. What does celibacy mean to you when sensuality and sexuality are closely related? You can embrace sensuality in these smaller ways before we have sex.   Books To Read: Sexless in the City by Kat Harris Sex God by Rob Bell Good Christian Sex by Bromleigh McCleneghan Shameless by Nadia Bolz-Weber Come As You Are by Dr. Emily Nagoski If any parts of this conversation have felt triggering for you, just know that whatever you're feeling is valid. There is no judgement. Validate your feelings and then question why those feelings are coming up for you. "Our God is one that encourages curious questions and sincere questioning." Celeste has so many resources for you, including...  Resources: 20 sex-enhancing questions for free on her website. She also offers free 30-minute discovery calls. If you have questions about anything we talked about today, go to her website and click on "30 Minute Discovery Call."  She also has courses for one on one consulting if that feels right for you. Keep up with Dr. Celeste on Instagram at @drcelesteholbrook.    Ladies, does it ever feel like your shorts were just not made for you? Title Nine is performance outdoor gear made by women for women that you can wear working out, hiking, or just running errands. It is built to perform and made to last. Go to TitleNine.com/refined for $10 off and free shipping on your order over $100!   This past year, I've been trying to perfect some recipes I can have in my back pocket when I have company. In all of these experiences, I realized how important it is to have good cooking tools. I just got a brand new knife set from MadeIn Cookware and it has been life-changing. Go to MadeInCookware.com/kat and use promo code KAT for 15% off your first order!

Time Stamps:  0:00 - Ice blocking 3:21 - Hi friends!  4:57 - Concert season is BACK 10:57 - The last time we will speak about Gabbie Hanna 36:21 - Reacting to Reddit unpopular opinions 53:54 - BREAKING NEWS 55:28 - Unpop opinions cont. 1:05:10 - Reading YOUR unpop opinions  Thank you sponsors! Title Nine https://bit.ly/3vF1kuW | ThirdLove https://bit.ly/3cPs3it | Hello Tushy https://bit.ly/3nJVt3T  Listen on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3fjR2s1 Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3go1X5s Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/3fCx7H3  Follow us on social media @the_seshpodcast  IG: https://bit.ly/3a9t6Xr TW: https://bit.ly/2XH4C2A Join our Discord! https://discord.gg/42mAfe6  Kendall: @kendallraeonyt IG: https://bit.ly/3gIQPjI TW: https://bit.ly/2XLsLFn YT: https://bit.ly/3abKWsS Janelle: @janelle_fields_ IG: https://bit.ly/2DyP1eE TW: https://bit.ly/2DrboD1 Sydney: @barnesy51 IG: https://bit.ly/3vfWo0g  Karelly: @karell.y IG: https://bit.ly/2TcxnoD  TW: https://bit.ly/3f9ngcN  Kendall's New CBD Brand, Higher Love Wellness: https://higherlovewellness.com/   Music By: Mile Higher Boys YT: https://bit.ly/3fJrDZ8 IG: https://bit.ly/3kDle5s ✉ Send Us Mail & Art ✉ 8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J # 233 Greenwood Village, CO 80112   Welcome to The Sesh Podcast hosted by cousins and best friends, Kendall & Janelle! Kendall is a YouTube content creator focusing on True Crime and raising awareness for missing persons cases, and Janelle is a mental health professional with a Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Our show is focused on a variety of topics including current events, our personal experiences & sharing advice, mental health, playing games, discussing astrology & spirituality, and hosting guests from time to time. Come hang out with us every Sunday!

On this week's episode Kail and Lindise are embracing summer and talking about vacation styles! As Kail prepares to leave for a two week vacation she is looking forward to all of the pre-planned activities she has scheduled. But Lindise is the total opposite when she goes on vacation, preferring to just relax and see where the trip takes her. Are you more of a Kail or a Lindsie when it comes to vacationing? And Lindsie and Kail have both been working on themselves in therapy, and they think everyone could benefit from some good therapy. Mental health is for everyone! Plus Kail and Lindsie are continuing to learn about gentle parenting and have been trying to rely more on natural consequences to try and help their kids learn and listen.   This episode was sponsored by: Credit Karma, Title Nine, Paramount+, & HGTV Obsessed Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

On this week's episode Kail and Lindise are embracing summer and talking about vacation styles! As Kail prepares to leave for a two week vacation she is looking forward to all of the pre-planned activities she has scheduled. But Lindise is the total opposite when she goes on vacation, preferring to just relax and see where the trip takes her. Are you more of a Kail or a Lindsie when it comes to vacationing? And Lindsie and Kail have both been working on themselves in therapy, and they think everyone could benefit from some good therapy. Mental health is for everyone! Plus Kail and Lindsie are continuing to learn about gentle parenting and have been trying to rely more on natural consequences to try and help their kids learn and listen.   This episode was sponsored by: Credit Karma, Title Nine, Paramount+, & HGTV Obsessed Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

On this month's bonus episode Kail and Lindsie are joined once again by friend Summer to talk about the highly requested Kristin Smart case. But before jumping in, they have to talk about the recent developments concerning Brittney Spears and her conservatorship. Summer provides some legal insight to what might be happening. Then as the Kristin Smart case comes back into the news, Lindsie, Kail and Summer discuss theories as well as details from the original investigation. This episode was sponsored by: Title Nine, Dame, KiwiCo, & Hers Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

On this month's bonus episode Kail and Lindsie are joined once again by friend Summer to talk about the highly requested Kristin Smart case. But before jumping in, they have to talk about the recent developments concerning Brittney Spears and her conservatorship. Summer provides some legal insight to what might be happening. Then as the Kristin Smart case comes back into the news, Lindsie, Kail and Summer discuss theories as well as details from the original investigation. This episode was sponsored by: Title Nine, Dame, KiwiCo, & Hers Music by Nathaniel Wyvern. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License.

PRIDE Month continues, and today we are sharing a glimpse into the lives of Kelly and Amanda. The first half of this show, the Chicago couple is giving us their experience with coming out, family acceptance, and parenthood. The second half, Kelly and Amanda give honest, tangible action items we all can be doing to support and keep safe the LGBTQ+ community. SPONSORS: Looking for a bad ass pair of shorts to wear on your next adventure? Check out our faves, the Clamber Shorts from Title Nine! Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/GIRLS. Sleep temperature is everything, and the girls are currently OBSESSED with the Sleep Number Dual Temp Layer! They can each set their side to hot or cold, and be in a perfect cocoon all night! For a limited time, check out all the special offers only at Sleep Number stores or sleepnumber.com/GIRLS.

Thank you Newsstand Studio at 1 Rockefeller Plaza for providing a place for me to record this episode for y'all! No more Brooklyn closet recording!!!   You may have heard on Instagram that The Refined Collective reached 1 million downloads! This is a huge milestone and I want to CELEBRATE that with you! We have over 150 episodes from the last 3.5 years and I spent some time digging through the archives to find the most downloaded episodes ever to share with you over the next 10 weeks. If you're new to TRC, buckle up, because we have some incredible content coming your way. And if you've been here a while, hold tight, because a good refresh on this stuff never hurt! Also, while we're going through the archives, I'm going to spend some time dreaming up what's next for TRC! (And truthfully, I need a break from interviews for a bit!) But I didn't want to leave you hanging while I took a little break! So get excited, + welcome to TRC REMIX!   Are you ready to revisit (or visit for the first time) the most downloaded episode on TRC history? This is Part 1 of a conversation I had been avoiding having with you guys in a solo show because I was afraid of getting it wrong or someone taking a sound bite out of context. This is a nuanced conversation with a lot of grey areas, but I didn't want fear to keep me from this dialogue. So I dove into the topic and the response was overwhelming in the best way. Now let's dive back in!   Here's what I won't do: Tell you what to do. Give you a script to regurgitate to yourself and others to justify any of your actions. Shame or judge you for your past or your current decisions. Try to fix you or convince you of anything.   What I hope to do: Point you to Jesus, Scripture, and nuance. Normalize a healthy conversation around sex, sexuality, desire, and yes— masturbation The word alone can feel shame inducing, right? How many times do you say ‘masturbation' out loud on a regular basis? God is not ashamed of our sexual desire and sexuality—he created it (Genesis 1: 26-31). Give you tools to equip you to navigate your faith, values, and a dialogue around masturbation. Don't take my word for it—I'm not God. This is where I am at after close to 7 years of researching, praying, doubting, trial and error, and tough conversations. God created you with a mind—use it! Finally, it's ok if we don't see eye to eye—we can still love, respect, and honor one another even if we come to different conclusions.   My Personal Story:  Before we move forward with vision and walk out today with clarity, we have to be willing to look backwards: how, why, and through what means did we get here? Home: ‘It's okay to masturbate.' School: Silence. Friends: Silence, masked conversations, and shame. Culture: ‘Do what feels good.' Church: All wrong, all the time, shut down your desire until marriage—only guys struggle with sexual desire.    4 Questions to Ask Yourself What do you currently believe about masturbation and why? What were you taught about masturbation at home, school, from friends, culture, and church? Where and how were those beliefs formed? Are those sexual scripts/beliefs rooted in fear or freedom? Identify the shame agenda + the Jesus agenda.   The Big ‘O': The Power of the Orgasm When we orgasm, dopamine and oxytocin are released in a surge in our bodies. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter released from the reward center part of our brain associated with pleasure. Oxytocin is a feel-good hormone. One of its sole purposes is to create deep bonds between people. This is like “soul ties.”   The Harem Within: C.S. Lewis   “For me the real evil of masturbation would be that it takes an appetite which, in lawful use, leads the individual out of himself…and turns it back: sends the man back into the prison of himself, there to keep a harem of imaginary brides. And this harem, once admitted, works against his ever getting out and really uniting with a real woman. For the harem is always accessible, always subservient, calls for no sacrifices or adjustments, and can be endowed with erotic and psychological attractions which no real woman can rival. Among those shadowy brides he is always adored, always the perfect lover: no demand is made on his unselfishness, no mortification ever imposed on his vanity. In the end, they become merely the medium through which he increasingly adores himself . . . .After all, almost the main work of life is to come out of our selves, out of the little, dark prison we are all born in. Masturbation is to be avoided as all things are to be avoided which retard this process. The danger is that of coming to love the prison”[1]     My pleasure is #1 priority   Ephesians 5: Respect our husbands and husbands to serve their wives like Christ served the church. Our sexual experiences with our spouses should be outward focused, let's serve each other—not ‘I'm feeling turned on, get me off, and then roll over.'     Ends on self   Sexuality = desire for ‘o' others. Gets us outside of our heads and into relationship/community with others.     No iron sharpens iron here folks   Conflict resolution. Mirrors of each other. Constant growth. “Brides always adored” or “yes men.”     FANTASY LAND: Loving the prison more than real life   I don't want to get so good at getting myself off that I don't need another person. 91% of millennials masturbate (19 and 36 for SKYN's 2018 Millennial Sex Survey, and found that 91 percent of respondents masturbated.) 2015—Pornhub site: 60% of its users were millennials. Compartmentalized and scratching an itch that we don't need to/want to take the risk of being in a relationship and dating. Avoiding: heartbreak, awkwardness, conflict, rejection. Is this why so many of us in the church are single? We're getting just enough of our “itches” scratched that the risk of truly putting ourselves out there to be in a relationship is not worth it?    Don't worry, I won't leave you hanging. Process what we've just gone through today and get ready for Part 2 coming next Wednesday. In the meantime, journal through the questions I ask above under “4 Questions to Ask Yourself.” Make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so the next episode will download straight to your devices!!   [1] C.S. Lewis. Personal Letter From Lewis to Keith Masson found in The Collected Letters of C.S. Lewis, Volume 3: Narnia, Cambridge, and Joy 1950-1963. (New York: Harper Collins, 2007).   Resources Your Mind Matters by John Stott How to Embrace Your Sexuality Mini Course Sign up for one on one coaching with me here. Be sure + grab a copy of my book Sexless in the City.   Ladies, does it ever feel like your shorts were just not made for you? Title Nine is performance outdoor gear made by women for women that you can wear working out, hiking, or just running errands. It is built to perform and made to last. Go to TitleNine.com/refined for $10 off and free shipping on your order over $100!   This past year, I've been trying to perfect some recipes I can have in my back pocket when I have company. In all of these experiences, I realized how important it is to have good cooking tools. I just got a brand new knife set from Made In Cookware and it has been life-changing. Go to MadeInCookware.com/kat and use promo code KAT for 15% off your first order!   When it comes to paying off debt, it can often feel like an uphill battle. Upstart can help you get ahead. It is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan all online. Unlike other lenders, Upstart looks at more than just your credit score, so they can offer smarter rates with trusted partners. Go to Upstart.com/refined to see how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.

Here's your WORT Local News for Monday, June 21st, 2021: We take a look back at Saturday's Juneteenth festivities, celebrate local Madison musicians, tour the city's new fleet services facility, and in the second, we get the week ahead in local government and look back on the history of Title Nine.

Lilian and Laura have been trying to have a baby while stationed in Japan, six hours apart! How are they doing that? With an English translator and a lot of tickets for the bullet train so they could meet up at a clinic in the middle. Order the #ITOCT book Amazon, IndieBound or Audible. ovariestalk@gmail.com IG/Twitter/FB: @ovariestalk  Medium @robin633 Edited by EditAudio press Brett Henne theme song: Songfinch & Tiffany Topol Thanks to California Cryobank (code: OCT), Thrive Causmetics, Title Nine, AND our Patreon supporters!

Disclaimer: This episode is not intended to serve as therapy in any way. If you are struggling and/or need someone to talk to, reach out to this hotline: 800-273-8255 (available 24/7 & free) Please help Mac's sweet family if you can :) https://bit.ly/3xoXSWC Time Stamps: 0:00 - Hi friends!3:28 - Personal check in10:03 - We need your help 15:05 - Moth attack16:27 - RIP Apollo24:11 - Our upcoming family reunion28:17 - Our love for trash TV39:19 - Blair Fowler is designing our new studio!!!!42:47 - Moth attack #248:06 - Our thoughts on the YT dramaaa53:06 - Our experiences with therapy & why therapy is the bestThank you sponsors! Title Nine https://bit.ly/3vF1kuW | Hello Fresh https://bit.ly/3e9AkwY | Warby Parker https://bit.ly/3fbfSNO Listen on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3fjR2s1 Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3go1X5s Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/3fCx7H3 Follow us on social media @the_seshpodcast IG: https://bit.ly/3a9t6Xr TW: https://bit.ly/2XH4C2A Join our Discord! https://discord.gg/42mAfe6 Kendall: @kendallraeonytIG: https://bit.ly/3gIQPjI TW: https://bit.ly/2XLsLFn YT: https://bit.ly/3abKWsS Janelle: @janelle_fields_IG: https://bit.ly/2DyP1eE TW: https://bit.ly/2DrboD1 Sydney: @barnesy51IG: https://bit.ly/3vfWo0g Karelly: @karell.yIG: https://bit.ly/2TcxnoD TW: https://bit.ly/3f9ngcN Kendall's New CBD Brand, Higher Love Wellness: https://higherlovewellness.com/  Music By: Mile Higher BoysYT: https://bit.ly/3fJrDZ8 IG: https://bit.ly/3kDle5s ✉ Send Us Mail & Art ✉8547 E Arapahoe Rd Ste J # 233Greenwood Village, CO 80112 Welcome to The Sesh Podcast hosted by cousins and best friends, Kendall & Janelle! Kendall is a YouTube content creator focusing on True Crime and raising awareness for missing persons cases, and Janelle is a mental health professional with a Master's in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Our show is focused on a variety of topics including current events, our personal experiences & sharing advice, mental health, playing games, discussing astrology & spirituality, and hosting guests from time to time. Come hang out with us every Sunday!

Welcome to Majority.FM's AM QUICKIE! Brought to you by justcoffee.coop TODAY'S HEADLINES: A new report says eight million Americans are at imminent risk of getting thrown out of their homes. President Joe Biden could spare them with the stroke of a pen, but he hasn't yet made a move to do so. Meanwhile, research shows the country's richest families have done spectacularly well during the pandemic. That's in part because they still aren't paying their fair share of taxes. And lastly, months after the Capitol insurrection, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers are strapped for cash and bleeding members. Where's Daddy Trump when you really need him? THESE ARE THE STORIES YOU NEED TO KNOW: More Americans will be homeless very soon, this report from CBS News suggests. Even as the nation rebounds from the pandemic, more than two million homeowners are behind on their mortgages and risk being forced out of their homes in a matter of weeks, a new Harvard University report warns. Most of the homeowners at risk are either low-income or families of color, said researchers behind the 2021 State of the Nation's Housing report. Congress has dedicated $10 billion to help homeowners get caught up on payments, but it's unclear if that funding will make it to families before foreclosure notices arrive. Separately, millions more renters are on the brink of eviction, the researchers found. Census data show that six million households are still behind on rent and could face eviction at the end of June, when federal eviction protections expire. The Center for Disease Control order halting some evictions, and federal liminations on foreclosures for federally backed housing, both expire on June 30. Advocates have pushed for the Biden administration to extend both, but there is no indication an extension will happen. CBS reports that more than seven million homeowners took advantage of the foreclosure moratorium passed as part of the Cares Act last spring. The provision was extended by the Biden White House. As of March 2021, most of those homeowners have started repaying lenders. But that leaves about two point one million still behind on their mortgages. Biden must act now to keep these families, including renters, housed. Richest Families Gained $136B During Pandemic This status check on the rich and useless comes from the Guardian. Ten of the US's richest families, including the Walmart family and the dynasties behind industries including candy and cosmetics, saw their assets balloon over the pandemic, with a shared increase in their combined net worth of over $136 billion in fourteen months. That's according to a report by the Institute for Policy Studies published yesterday. The report details how these families have not only increased their wealth by billions in the last year, but have also worked to ensure the system supports this exponential growth over decades. In 1983 the Walton family, who founded Walmart, were worth $2.15 billion. By the end of 2020, the Waltons had a combined net worth of over $247 billion, an inflation-adjusted increase of four thousand three hundred percent. The wealth of the Mars candy dynasty increased by three thousand five hundred percent over the same period. According to the Guardian, Chuck Collins, a co-author of the report, said these families weren't just making more money, they were also getting better at putting it out of reach of taxation. The report outlined several proposals to curb this wealth accumulation, including the Make Billionaires Pay Act, a proposal introduced in 2020 to institute a one-time sixty percent pandemic wealth tax on billionaires. But more must be done, Collins said, to stamp out tax loopholes, offshore tax havens and certain trusts that allow families to hide their wealth. Or we could simply eat the rich. Proud Boys In Poor Shape This delicious update on Donald Trump's loyal foot soldiers comes from the Wall Street Journal. The far-right group the Oath Keepers is splintering after board members accused the founder of spending its money on hair dye, steaks and guns. The leader of the Proud Boys, choked off from the financial system, is printing Black Lives Matter T-shirts to make money. The finances of the two most visible groups with members involved in the January 6th riot at the US Capitol are sputtering. Leaders are low on cash, struggling with defections and arguing over the future. The Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys have seen more than three dozen of their members arrested in connection with January 6th. Within both groups, an escalating crackdown and the departure of Trump from office has spurred new levels of disarray. The Journal reports that Oath Keepers membership has dropped eighty percent from its peak. The organization had less than $10,000 in its bank account as of April. Bank records show thousands of dollars of Oath Keepers funds spent on goods and services in Montana, where founder Stewart Rhodes lived until recently. That includes $12,000 at an auto-repair shop, $886 at a bar, and $229 at a lingerie shop called Alley Katz Nighties 'N‘ Naughties. The Proud Boys aren't faring much better. Members have turned to cryptocurrency, local credit unions and alternative payment brokers to replace a mainstream financial system that has largely cut them off. There's a lesson here, folks: anti-fascist organizing gets results! AND NOW FOR SOME QUICKER QUICKIES: Politico reports that the US and Russia will return their ambassadors to Moscow and Washington, DC, respectively, following President Joe Biden's summit with Vladimir Putin yesterday. They concluded their summit, which Putin called constructive, earlier than expected, after about four hours with breaks. Coulda been a Zoom call! The AP reports that Israeli aircraft carried out a series of airstrikes in the Gaza Strip yesterday. There were no immediate reports of casualties. They were the first such raids since a shaky cease-fire ended the war with Hamas last month. The new Israeli government is not off to a great start. NBC News reports that Minnesota authorities charged the driver of an SUV that plowed into a protester-filled intersection with second degree murder. The Sunday crash killed one woman and injured another person. Nicholas D. Kraus, thirty five, is jailed on $1 million bail and is scheduled to appear in court today. He has a lot to answer for. The Associated Press reports that the US Education Department yesterday expanded its interpretation of federal Title Nine sex protections to include transgender and gay students. The move reverses Trump-era policy and stands against anti-transgender proposals in many states. Here's hoping this new directive holds back the tide of discrimination in those Republican states that are trying their hardest to persecute transgender students. AM QUCKIE - JUNE 17, 2021 HOSTS - Sam Seder & Lucie Steiner WRITER - Corey Pein PRODUCER - Dorsey Shaw EXECUTIVE PRODUCER - Brendan Finn

LISTEN TO THE WHOLE EPISODE: https://linktr.ee/girlsgirlspodWe have a very special show for you today for #PrideMonth! Welcome to your master class on how to react when your child comes out of the closet. We have a very special guest, Meredith's son, Logan. He's an out gay teenager, and we couldn't be more proud of him. As Meredith talks about on the show, posting memes is great, but money actually helps the cause. Here are her family's favorite places to make donations:Equality Toledo: equalitytoledo.orgThe Trevor Project: give.thetrevorproject.org/give/24399/#!/donation/checkoutCenter for Black Equality: centerforblackequity.org SPONSORS: We want you to start living a happier life today. As a listener, you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting BetterHelp.com/GIRLS. Join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health. Title Nine gear and apparel is built to perform and made to last. From innovative swim pieces to bottoms that actually fit, every product is designed for women seeking out their next adventure. Right now, Title Nine is offering our listeners $10 off and free shipping on orders over $100 when you visit titlenine.com/GIRLS.

Thank you Newsstand Studio at 1 Rockefeller Plaza for providing a place for me to record this episode for y’all! No more Brooklyn closet recording!!!   Warning: This episode covers a sensitive topic. I want to give you the opportunity to pause and listen when you are alone or use some headphones if you’re around delicate ears.   What does the Bible really say about sex? Is there a difference between sexual desire and desire for sex? How do I embrace my sexuality? What if I never meet someone?   My journey has been imperfect, but the stumbles led me to where I am today. In this episode, I share my own stumbles in waiting for marriage, including the relationships that made me really question my decision to wait for marriage. If you want to hear more of that journey, check out My Breaking Point, an episode of the podcast where I read an excerpt from my book, Sexless in the City. After that breaking point, I decided to make my faith my own and find out why I believed what I believed. Here is Part I of what I discovered. (Part II coming next week.)   Where + When does the Bible talk about Sex? The phrases “sexual immorality” or “fornification” popped up a lot in the New Testament and were always accompanied by the word “flee.”  In 1 Corinthians 6:18, Paul tells the church to flee from porneia. In 1 Corinthians 7:1–2 Paul encourages the Corinth church to get married in order to avoid the temptation of porneia. This set of verses is often used during biblical teaching on abstinence.  Porneia: blanket word that encapsulated a lot of different things: pedophilia, beastiality, adultery…in essence it’s this bundled term for any sexual activity outside of marriage. I can trust that if there is an invitation to flee from something it’s not because God hates sex or sexual activity…it’s because God has a more grand vision for whatever the thing is…   “Make a decision that is not rooted in ‘should’ or external expectation or shame, but one that is connected to abundance, wholeness, and freedom.” - Kat Harris   What Exactly is Sex? How do you define sex? Where did you come up with said definition? Is sex one act? Or a pool of experiences? What if you identify as LGBTQ+? Are the only people who can lose their virginity those who experience heterosexual attraction? What if your partner is experiencing impotence? What if you’re one of the 75% of females who only experience climax/orgasm through external stimulation? Does your deffinition of sex expand when you consider these questions?   “I didn’t want to redefine sex because if I did, I might not be a virgin anymore.” - Kat Harris   Next episode, I’ll unpack what I found in the Old Testament about God and sex. But for now...   Reflection Questions Have you felt as a person of faith that your virginity is tied to your standing with God? How would you define sex? Why would you define it that way? Where did you come up with said definition? What stood out to you today? Pool of experiences vs. vertical race to a misguided goal. Sit with it. Process. Talk with your friends about it.   Resources Buy my book Sexless in the City Join our Patreon community for exclusive videos Listen to My Breaking Point Ladies, does it ever feel like your shorts were just not made for you? Title Nine is performance outdoor gear made by women for women that you can wear working out, hiking, or just running errands. It is built to perform and made to last. Go to TitleNine.com/refined for $10 off and free shipping on your order over $100!   This past year, I’ve been trying to perfect some recipes I can have in my back pocket when I have company. In all of these experiences, I realized how important it is to have good cooking tools. I just got a brand new knife set from MadeIn Cookware and it has been life-changing. Go to MadeInCookware.com/kat and use promo code KAT for 15% off your first order! Finding a bra that fits, is comfortable, and cute or sexy… it feels impossible. I recently had an enjoyable bra shopping experience with the female-founded and led company Natori. They have everything from size A to G. Go to Natori.com and apply the code REFINED at checkout for 15% off at checkout. Be sure to use the hashtag #MyNatori on social media.

Oliver returns for the conclusion of our chat about fertility options for Trans Men. He brings Dr. Mok-Lin from UCSF with him to answer all our burning questions. Order the #ITOCT book Amazon, IndieBound or Audible. ovariestalk@gmail.com IG/Twitter/FB: @ovariestalk  Medium @robin633 Edited by EditAudio press Brett Henne theme song: Songfinch & Tiffany Topol Thanks to Title Nine and California Cryobank (Code: OCT) AND our Patreon supporters!

In Ep. #8, Caroline sits down with Kelsey Trainor to discuss the many ways that NCAA is failing women athletes - and how they've gotten away with it for so long.Kelsey is a lawyer, producer, and writer who currently serves as in-house counsel & head of Business & Legal Affairs for Abrams Media. As a two-sport collegiate athlete and former college coach, Kelsey often writes for national publications regarding issues related to collegiate athletics & equality in sports. In this episode, Caroline & Kelsey dig into the disparities between the 2021 Men's & Women's NCAA March Madness Tournament. Kelsey sheds lights on why the NCAA is not bound by Title IX, and how the NCAA's rules around NIL & athlete compensation disproportionately impact women athletes. More from GOALS Subscribe: Email sign-upTwitter: @goals_sports_Instagram: @goals_sports_Podcast Merch: goals-sports.com/purplemugEmail: caroline@goals-sports.com

Show Notes: http://outdoorsonline.co/040 Alice Heiman, one of the top experts in the world on complex sales, is here to share some tips on customer retention.  Alice helps some of the largest businesses in the world understand the sales process and how to create loyal customers. Alice shares some easy steps that you can implement today.  Have you surprised your customer and over deliver after the sale.  We find out which are the main mistakes to avoid when creating loyal customers. Customer Retention Show Notes with Alice Heiman 03:10 - Alice's dad started the Miller-Heiman Company which is a world-renowned top sales training company. 24:00 - Alice noted Title Nine and the great job they do of over-delivering. 45:00 - Vendor Neutral for the B to B world or Smart Selling Tools which both review different software for customer service and managing referrals. 46:00 - The amazing Shepe Hyken Cab Driver Story is a great resource and a great youtube video with a taxi cab driver and how to make a loyal customer for life. 46:50 - Alice Blog posts on customer retention You can find Alice at AliceHeiman.com Customer Retention Conclusion with Alice Heiman Alice Heiman is on the podcast to share some tips on customer retention and how to create loyal customers.  We find out the easy way to get referrals and what you can do today to increase your customer retention rate to 70-80% Show Notes: http://outdoorsonline.co/040

Welcome Kaylee to the family and we talk Title Nine

Mary Ellen Pethel and Jennifer Duck join Katie to talk about the debates, President Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis and the history of women as candidates and voters.ABOUT THE GUESTSMary Ellen Pethel is an author, historian, digital humanist, and academic entrepreneur who serves as an Assistant Professor at Belmont University. Dr. Pethel is widely published. Her latest book is Athens of the New South…And she is currently working on a manuscript celebrating the 50th anniversary of Title Nine. She teaches courses such as “Making the Modern City,” which inspired the historical walking tour app, NashvilleSites.org. She also teaches a course called: "The Good Life” and “Democracy, Media, and the Public Sphere.”Jennifer Duck -- Emmy award-winning producer and instructor of journalism in the department of Cinema, Media and Television. Prior to her work with Belmont, Jen was a producer for CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and Katie Couric’s syndicated show in New York. Additionally, she worked for Oprah Winfrey Network in Los Angeles. Jen began her career at ABC News in Washington, D.C. and traveled around the world aboard Air Force One as White House producer covering President George W. Bush and reported from the campaign trail as President Barack Obama and Senator John McCain canvassed the country in 2008. Jen has been a consultant for Words Matter on-and-off since our launch in August of 2018. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This week it's Stef and Nikki as we chat a little about our lives and a little about sports bras. This is a short follow up to Episode 19 when we talked with Molly Hanks, the head "bravangelist" from Title Nine who answered our questions about finding the right sports bras through our mother running seasons! We give some details about the particular bras we received and tried out from Title Nine and share our favorites with you! Check the show notes for links to some pretty great bras! And as always, don't forget to subscribe and share with your mom tribe! Thank you to this week's sponsor: XOSKIN! Check out their running apparel and use code "treeline" at checkout for 20% off your purchase! Show Notes: Bras we talk about: AC Sports Bra by Anita 3 Reasons Sports Bra by Brooks Run It All Cross Back Bra by Brooks Run It All Strappy Sports Bra by Brooks Run It All Adjustable Sports Bra by Brooks - *** Stef's Favorite (and she's never going back to a different bra fabric after this seamless bra!) Boobyah Sports Bra by Handful - *** Nikki's Favorite! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/run-hard-mom-hard/message

This week we have a special episode dedicated entirely to SPORTS BRAS!! We talk with Molly Hanks, an expert in the field and the head Bravangelist at Title Nine. A good sports bra is perhaps the most essential piece of equipment for women runners - it has life changing capabilities and allows us women to keep showing up in our sports with the comfort, support and confidence that we need. We need to be free to run and frolic along our favorite trails without unnecessary bounce or discomfort from a bra that just isn't serving us well. So in this episode we have the opportunity to pick Molly's brain about all things sports bras - like how to measure correctly, what are common signs that a bra isn't working, how to care for our bras, how to find the right support levels, how to minimize chafing issues which I'm sure we've all experienced and what to do in those awkward phases of pregnancy and nursing when our sizes are all over the place and “it's like the Wild West” as Molly so accurately puts it. A huge thanks to Title Nine and Molly Hanks for all this useful information! Stef and I will also be posting a future episode about some specific bras we are trying out in the hopes that a product review could point you to your future bra love! Stay tuned! See Our write up on Treeline Journal for more notes on this episode. Title Nine Title Nine's Fit Calculator Title Nine's Barbell Rating System for finding your support level needs Molly's pic for a Nursing Bra - 3-Reasons Sports Bra Molly's favorite for Post-Nursing: Booby Trap Sports Bra Molly's favorite race: The Double Dipsea Molly's Fave Chicken Marbella Recipe: "I don't have it written down so these are approximate levels. It's impossible to screw up and it's one of those things that my daughter has loved from 12 months ( or whenever I introduced meat ??) until now. It's salty and sweet and can be thrown together in like 5 min, and it cooks for an hour so you can go get a little run in." 2 lbs of boneless skinless chicken breasts 1 cup of white wine 2-3 table spoons of capers 1 cup kalamata olives 1 cup of dried apricots a little olive oil Throw it all in a covered casserole dish and bake for 50-60 min at 350. Serve over brown rice and with a green salad. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/run-hard-mom-hard/message

Common ground? The Conservative talk host and the former Democrat Governor on the failings of "Title IX"

Welcome to the 2019 Degree Show! In this episode we talk about the schools and the band programs that are in the news this week and we discuss Title Nine and what that means. This podcast is brought to you by SAY Marketing and Promotions (47:48) Block Band Music & Publishing (16:00) Kevin Peete (48:40) Block Us Up - Band Blog (16:44) Smokee O's BBQ (49:20) Bull City Music School (50:14) Check out our website http://www.themarchingpodcast.com/ you can email the show at marchingpodcast@gmail.com, tweet us @marchingpodcast, and follow our blog at https://themarchingpodcast.blog/ We hope you enjoy the show! TOPICS: Intros and Shot Outs (4:40) Who You Have Seen (17:40) Grambling State v. Jackson State SC State v. Benedict Discussion (50:55) Hazing, Title 9, Gender Equality Closing (1:26:50)

In 1972, a landmark civil rights law entitled Title Nine was passed, which requires gender equality in all aspects of publicly-funded education. Missy Park was one of the first cohorts of students to benefit from Title Nine during her college career, which allowed her to play numerous collegiate sports. Following her career as a student-athlete and after working in the outdoor apparel industry for a handful of years, in 1989 Missy realized there was a massive hole in the market for women's sports apparel. So starting with a self-made mail order catalog and inventory piling up in her garage, she launched a new women's sports apparel company and called it Title Nine. Title Nine is now a multi-million dollar company with stores in states across the US and a thriving eCommerce company. On this episode, I sat down with Missy to talk gutting it through your first few years, staying independent and not taking external capital, and the best advice she has for other business leaders — oh, and there's some good stuff about parental leave in here as well. 

Perfect-Time Line for a House Flip (030) Steven Butala:                   Steve and Jill here. Jill DeWit:                            Hello. Steven Butala:                   Welcome to the House Academy show, entertaining real estate investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill DeWit:                            And I'm Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sunny southern California. Steven Butala:                   Today, Jill and I talk about the perfect timeline for a house flip and I can guarantee you that we have different opinions on this. Jill DeWit:                            I know. Right before this show, I said, "Hey, hold on a minute, Steven. I would like to share with you my timeline just to make sure we're on the same page," and Steven replied with, "It really doesn't matter. We can get into an argument right here if you want to." I'm like, "Okay," because I know I have my timeline and you have yours. Steven Butala:                   I sure do. Jill DeWit:                            You know what's funny, is I think people would probably guess that mine is more forgiving and I think they would be surprised. Steven Butala:                   Yeah. Before we get into the topic, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the houseacademy.com online community, it's free. Jill DeWit:                            Mary asks, "I just received a 22 unit rental house group of houses from a mailer. Rental house group. Does this happen to you and how should I proceed?" Go back. What a 22- Steven Butala:                   I think she means ... she means that she sent a mail campaign out and somebody responded and said, "Hey, not only do I want to sell you this house, but I have 21 other houses that are all rented out. How about you just buy all of them and get me out of this nightmare landlord position I've created for myself?" Jill DeWit:                            Now that makes sense. All right. How would you recommend she proceeds? Steven Butala:                   Well, you know, those things can be ... The good news is that you generated the deal. You didn't go on the MLS and try to undo it, so you got there first. That's the good news. But I personally ... We get these probably every month and I've never done one because there's always real good houses in a portfolio and real bad ones and that's just not our business model. Steven Butala:                   We have a real specific acquisition criteria and a real specific business model and we just churn it constantly. So there's a small chance that 22 ... There's 22 houses this guy has that are rented and they're reasonably priced and they don't need a ton of work. There's a small chance of that, but my experience has been landlords either stay in the business and they work it out or they don't. Jill DeWit:                            Right. Steven Butala:                   So I'm not knocking it and I would actually- Jill DeWit:                            And they're usually jumping for a reason. Steven Butala:                   If I've got a 22 unit deal in, and we just got one that was eight units in just recently, I looked at them all, I analyzed them as if I was going to buy them and we didn't get into the inspection point because half of the portfolio was in a really bad neighborhood. So, I just said ... And he didn't want to separate them out, which is typical. I understand that. Jill DeWit:                            I have one that was so funny too. Well, I had one like this where the gentleman, he knew that there were problems and he kept saying, "Are you sure you want to buy?" What's funny is I didn't pick up on the red flags and his hesitation. He knew we were going down this path and he knew darn well I wasn't going to pull the trigger because I was a professional. Then at the end when I said, "Yeah, we're not buying this," he's like, "I'm not surprised." It was so funny. He's like, "I know. I kind of thought that. I wish you all the best." I said, "Thank you. You too." Steven Butala:                   They can work, but you got to be set up for them. I'd rather get 22 single unit deals in. This is the exact opposite with land, by the way. When we get a 22 unit dealing on land, everybody jumps up and down around the office, especially if it's all in one county and the offers are signed. But with houses, they're in all guaranteed different situations. Especially if they're rentals. Today's topic, the perfect timeline for a house flip. This is why you're listening. Jill DeWit:                            Smarty pants, I want you to go first. Steven Butala:                   Jill and I renovated exactly two houses in our careers investments, before we said never ever again would we renovate, actually physically renovate, or rehab a house to resell it. The first one cash in, cash out took 45 days and we made about $28,000 and I just about wanted jump off a bridge. When you really look back on it, 45 days as smashingly awesome with escrow, in and out. We sold it for cash to this Canadian woman, the nicest lady ever. It was the most atrociously awful experience I've ever had, which is good, you got to have those to devise another system. Steven Butala:                   So by anybody's measure, cash in, cash out on a house sake for 45 days, it's great. By mine, it's atrocious. So we do a lot of front end works. I do a lot of front end work to pick a market by zip code or by subdivision to make Jill's life on the sell side really easy, where there's days on market are less than 30 days. Steven Butala:                   So the perfect timeline for the wholesale deal that we do is three weeks cash in, cash out, three weeks and we cleared more than 25,000 bucks. That's a perfect deal for us. Do we ever hit those? Yeah. Steven Butala:                   We just had a house, it took almost four or five months to sell because we retail it out and we all knew that. We also made 80,000 bucks on it, $70,000 or $80,000. so it depends on the deal, is my answer but if it's a regular, good, take it into possession, wholesale deal for us. Three weeks. Jill DeWit:                            We're on the same page. Steven Butala:                   Really? Jill DeWit:                            Well here's how I broke it down, though. Let me tell you, I went one step further. I wasn't talking about doing a renovation. I'm talking about a flip, the way we flip, which is we don't do anything to it. I don't even sweep. So I want to be cash in, cash out in two weeks, because we've done this, this isn't ... you said perfect, I came up with perfect because we have done this. I want 30 days in a perfect scenario that the offer comes in, to cash out 30, days. Jill DeWit:                            Let me tell you how this works. So day one, the sign offer letter comes in, we are on it, we're out there that day, or the next day we get the inspection, we open escrow, we are doing everything perfect. Then on day 15, that's when we're cash in because we're closing on the buy side. So that's when I'm putting the money in. Then a perfect world, day 16 I had an open house- Steven Butala:                   Wow Jill, you've got to [inaudible 00:06:13]. Jill DeWit:                            We've done this, you said perfect, I'm giving you what's possible. So don't please don't beat yourself up if you don't have the exact dates. This is not the norm. Steven Butala:                   You're talking to me or the listener? Jill DeWit:                            The listener. Please don't beat yourself up listener, if you don't have this exactly. This is the exception, not the rule. We have done it. So okay, so letter comes in, day 15 I close on the buy side, now I'm cash in. Day 16, because I was all ready to go, I knew on day 13, 14, 15 I'm getting this open house ready to advertise and push a button and hold it now fast. Jill DeWit:                            I have investors lined up ready to go and show up. So now on day 16, I've had my open house. I've got six investors in there that I've worked with before, or maybe I've haven't worked with them before. I've got six serious investors in though because we've been talking for the last week and a half getting ready for this so I told them what was coming. They're in there, they're walking it, they know time kills deals. Jill DeWit:                            So that night I'm entertaining offers, the next day, now day ... So that was 15, day 16, so they're like day 17 let's just say, I'm reopening escrow and then in a perfect world, on day 30 I'm closing on the sell side. Why can I do it that fast? Because I'm working with investors, they are also cash people and I did a hold up in policy so the back side went even faster. Steven Butala:                   Two things have to happen. Jill nailed one of them. The person that you're selling it to is a professional real estate investor, they want to have it done as fast as you do because they want to get in there and rip it all apart and get it back on the market all cleaned up. Steven Butala:                   Number two, and this is a little more tricky, is you have to have a seasoned escrow, slash title agent, slash closing lawyer on a short leash. That's a little harder to do, but once you're in the market for a while and you've been doing some deals, you should be able to find a perfect situation. Or at some point soon here, you're going be able to use Title Nine to do it. Jill DeWit:                            Exactly. Exactly. How's that? Steven Butala:                   So thirty days cash in, cash out. Jill DeWit:                            No, actually that was ... No, 30 days from the letter coming in and going out. I'm talking- Steven Butala:                   Oh okay. So we're saying the same thing. Jill DeWit:                            It's like 15 ... You said three weeks, I said two weeks. Steven Butala:                   So cash in cash out, for me is three weeks- Jill DeWit:                            Cash in. Steven Butala:                   ... but it takes a week before you have to put the cash in. When you get that letter, it's ... We're saying the same thing. Jill DeWit:                            Yeah. So cash in cash out is less. Steven Butala:                   For land out, we were getting reports back from some of our members that they're closing deals in three days with lawyers because with land there's no real due diligence. "Yep. I want to buy it. I can clearly see that this is exactly what I want." Jill DeWit:                            Exactly. I don't need to walk in it and feel it and be there. Steven Butala:                   We are forever talking about the pros and cons of buying and selling land versus houses forever on both shows. There's pros and cons to all of it. Jill DeWit:                            I have to share something which is interesting me, that I had never heard of this before. So it's a long ... This is a shining example of why we want to do it our way versus the other way, like going the long real estate way. I have a really sweet friend who's an agent in our area and she just held a twilight listing, a twilight open house. I didn't even know that was a thing. Steven Butala:                   What is that? Jill DeWit:                            It's where ... and she hired a band, had it catered and everything. So people could come and view the home- Steven Butala:                   She had a party. Jill DeWit:                            ... at sunset, to see what is possible in this home. Not just walking through and going, "Yeah, I like it. It's a great view. It's got the bedrooms I want, the bathroom I want, maybe I'm going to change the carpet," whatever. No, it was a whole twilight ... Steven Butala:                   Why didn't we get invited? Jill DeWit:                            We were invited. Steven Butala:                   Why didn't we go? Jill DeWit:                            We were busy, we couldn't go. We had people in town and we couldn't go. Steven Butala:                   That's awesome that I don't know any of this. Jill DeWit:                            You know what, actually that might've been our move day. Now I think about it. I think it was a move day. Steven Butala:                   Thank you for not letting me know any of this. Jill DeWit:                            Yeah, you're welcome. Honestly, we were invited. I would have liked to go, but I think it was move day and I couldn't go. I'm staring at boxes and I have Russian men in my living room and a lot of boxes, I can't go. Steven Butala:                   You like that? Jill DeWit:                            No. Steven Butala:                   Oh you don't like to have Russian men in your living room? Jill DeWit:                            No, I mean, you know what it's like. Who loves moving day? Nobody loves moving day. Anyway, but the end result of moving day, as you can see, was pretty good. It worked out okay. Steven Butala:                   We moved up, not down. Jill DeWit:                            But we missed our twilight listing. So my point was though, you want the perfect deal just get in, get out. Steven Butala:                   Did she sell the house? Jill DeWit:                            It's under contract right now. So yes, that did- Steven Butala:                   So did it work? Jill DeWit:                            Actually she did. Steven Butala:                   It really worked? Jill DeWit:                            Yeah it did. I thought I told you that. I'm sorry I didn't share with you. Steven Butala:                   I'm sure you did, I'm sure I [inaudible 00:10:36]. Hey, we know your time's valuable. Thanks for spending some of it with us today. Join us next time for another interesting episode. Jill DeWit:                            And we answer your questions posted on our online community found on houseacademy.com and it is free. Steven Butala:                   You are not alone in your real estate ambition. You know what I heard people also that people do on these high end houses? Is they make a movie. Jill DeWit:                            Yeah. Steven Butala:                   Like a short little eight minute movie about ... With characters and stuff in a [crosstalk 00:11:03]. Jill DeWit:                            Oh, I haven't seen that. Steven Butala:                   They shoot all the scenes in the house and stuff. Jill DeWit:                            Showing like the beautiful, perfect Christmas morning opening presents around the tree? Steven Butala:                   You know, you just wrote the script in your head. Jill DeWit:                            All right. Steven Butala:                   The ones that I've seen didn't involve houses. It involved having a little dinner party, almost like a little music video. Jill DeWit:                            Well she did a version of a dinner party. She did a party like, "Here's what you could have here at this house," and I think I worked. Jill DeWit:                            Wherever you're watching, or wherever you're listening, please subscribe and rate us there. Jill DeWit:                            We are Steve and Jill. Steven Butala:                   We are Steve and Jill. Information ... Jill DeWit:                            And inspiration ... Steven Butala:                   To buy undervalued property.  

I walk thru podcasting with three wonderful young teen students in a workshop empowerment on their Title Nine rights here in San Francisco

Big East Commissioner and former President and co-founder of the WNBA, Val Ackerman, has lived a life of 'firsts.' From her star college basketball playing days at University of Virginia, Val was one of the first recipients of Title Nine, offering a level playing field to both male and female college athletes. Working as a staff attorney for the NBA, Val took her experiences with her to USA Basketball where she became the driving force behind creating the women's first national team which culminated in a gold medal at the Atlanta 1996 Olympics. With the success of this team, Val created the WNBA, launching the professional careers of some of the first stars of the league. Today, Val is not only running a college basketball conference, but she is teaching, and a board member with several notable foundations including March of Dimes and Girls Incorporated.

Title Nine Part Two: Campus Assaults. Title Nine encompasses 37 words intended to keep our campus safe and fair, in order to ensure every child can equally access a quality education. Through two sexual assault survivors’ interviews, we reveal the sad reality: Too often our campuses are not safe!

Title IX has been in the news lately when, in fall of 2017, Secretary of Education, Betsy Devos, turned back an Obama era guidance on how schools must handle sexual assault under the 1971 federal law, Title IX (nine). We revisit the initial implications of Title IX and how 37 words have change the lives of all female in the classrooms and in the sporting arenas. We interview professionals who reveal how their lives were personally impacted by the passing and implenting of the federal mandate, Title IX.

Today we are thrilled to have Rebecca Pontikes on the show and we are going to be talking about the issue of Consult Fees in Employment Law cases. We have discussed this issue before, in an earlier podcast, where we touched on it briefly with Jacob Small, but on today's show, we will be dealing with this issue exclusively. Listen in to find out more. Rebecca, who has a sharp bend towards women's rights, is a Plaintiff Side Employment Lawyer, based in Boston, where she only does Plaintiff's Employment Law work. The focus of her practice is on discrimination against care givers who are Moms and Dads who get penalized at work, because they have to care for either their kids, or their ageing parents. She also does a lot of work around sexual harassment and with Title Nine plaintiffs. In addition to that, she deals with the whole gamut of Employment work, especially with  Non-Compete Agreements, because in Boston they have a lot of health care and a lot of tech. Listen to find out what Rebecca has to tell you today, about the issue of Consult Fees in Employment Law cases.   Show highlights:   Rebecca talks about what a Title Nine case means and who would call her, in that regard. Rebecca explains why she charges Consult Fees. How Rebecca's work differs from that done by firms who advertise 'no charge' for their consultations. The definition of a consultation could vary, from one Law Firm to the next. Many Law Firms have their junior Attorneys, or even Para-Legals handle their consultations. Some of the difficulties with dealing with Employment Law cases that most people don't know about. There are some resources for the people who really can't afford a Lawyer. Avvo.com offers a low-cost service where they will find you a Lawyer. Why Rebecca is passionate about having Legal Services adequately funded. The National Women's Law Centre, based in DC, is offering a Gender Equity Initiative, with a network of  Attorneys who have agreed to take these discrimination cases. Why it would really be worth paying a Lawyer for a consultation. The National Employment Lawyers Association has a good list of Plaintiff Side Lawyers for you to use. On the Workplace Fairness website, they have a really good Q&A and helpful information for legal consumers and workers who have lost their job, or fear that they might lose it. (www.workplacefairness.org) Another resource, particularly for pregnancy and care giver discrimination cases, is the Centre For Work Life Law. (www.worklifelaw.org) They also have a hotline and some great resources.   Resources:   Rebecca's website: www.pontikeslawllc.com   

Ken Steele's 10th annual higher ed "year in review" continues with part 3, a look at the fall – and rise – of for-profit fortunes in 2016. In the previous two episodes, we looked at the proliferation of free college tuition policies across North America, the rise of anti-intellectualism and protectionism, and some of the implications for international education. (If you missed them, check out part 1 at https://youtu.be/CZ6nuznRV_I , and part 2 at https://youtu.be/AWuE7EhoejI ).   6) FOR-PROFITS For decades now, massive for-profit schools like the University of Phoenix and Kaplan University have been rewriting the rules of higher education, and transforming the landscape. Last year was their annus horribilis, but also likely marks a turning point to much better times ahead. For 8 years, the Obama administration aggressively prosecuted for-profit colleges and universities for deceptive marketing, fraudulent enrolments, and high rates of student loan defaults. Collectively, they were receiving more than $20 billion in student loans and $4 billion in Pell Grants, so the Government Accountability Office investigated thoroughly. The GAO’s undercover agents caught recruiters on hidden camera, encouraging students to lie on their loan applications. Major online universities like Phoenix were apparently targeting homeless shelters, and encouraging students with little chance of academic success to apply for substantial financial aid. There was a Senate hearing into For-Profit School recruitment practices, and new, tougher regulations. Between 2011 and 2015, for-profit universities saw declines of 30% or more in enrolment. Over 5 years, the University of Phoenix alone lost a quarter-million students, and laid off about a thousand employees. Its parent company, Apollo Group, retreated from Canada, closing Meritus University in Fredericton after just a couple of years, in order to concentrate on defending the home front. Obama’s so-called “gainful employment” legislation, finalized in 2014, aimed to keep student loan payments below 8% of a graduate’s total earnings, and would revoke financial aid eligibility for institutions that graduated students with unmanageable debt levels. Corinthian Colleges faced legal challenges by state and federal agencies, and finally declared it was closing more than 100 campuses in April 2015, including Everest College and CDI Institutes in Canada. In August 2016, ITT Technical Institute lost its accreditation, and it declared bankruptcy within a month, closing 130 campuses and laying off 8,000 employees. In September 2016, Washington revoked the accreditation of ACICS, the Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools, after 105 years. ACICS accredited hundreds of for-profit and distance-ed colleges and universities. And just last week, in the final days of the Obama administration, it was announced that more than 800 programs failed the Department of Education’s “gainful employment” standards, and therefore risked losing student aid eligibility – 98% of them at for-profit institutions. But it seems pretty likely that 2016 marks the nadir of fortune for America’s for-profit colleges and universities. President-elect Trump hasn’t articulated his higher education policies, but it seems obvious that the founder of Trump University will have sympathies with other for-profits. After five years using the “university” label without accreditation, the courts forced a name change, but Trump University was closing by that time anyway. The president-elect has made it clear that he is a strong supporter of school choice and charter schools, promising to repurpose about a third of the federal education budget. It seems likely that the Trump administration will deregulate the for-profit sector, or at least relax enforcement of existing regulations. Analysts predict that he may grant a reprieve to ACICS. In the past, Trump has declared that he would completely eliminate the federal Department of Education – possibly eliminating the National Center for Education Statistics and the Pell Grant program as well. Anything his administration does to reduce or relax the federal government’s power over financial aid accreditation will remove the “teeth” from federal legislation like Title Nine, which protects gender equity in athletics and on campus. And Trump has indicated strong support for competency-based degrees, which will likely continue to gain momentum during his term. Trump’s nominee for Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos, is a reformer of elementary and secondary schools, a strong believer in charter schools, school choice, and voucher systems. She is likely to promote privatization, performance-based government funding, and legislation to further reduce the power of faculty and staff unions. She has been a supporter of religious schools and free speech on campus, and an opponent of political correctness, affirmative action, and same-sex marriage. Decades of growth in for-profit higher ed were largely undone under two terms of Obama’s administration. Whether you think that’s a good thing or not, the Trump administration is poised to reverse much of the regulation and enforcement that has held back the multinational expansion of for-profit colleges and universities. In Canada and around the world, we need to prepare ourselves for a resurgence of corporate players in higher education. A major shift in the landscape lies ahead. Excerpts: Dan Rather Reports – https://youtu.be/Pa1DxUWMsEU Frontline 2010 – https://youtu.be/08_AuakqdXs Frontline 2016 - https://youtu.be/Cew6EutvAjE Fox 5 Atlanta - https://youtu.be/2vhFcKIhm4Y GAO - https://youtu.be/9PbevtrhEKM MSNBC - https://youtu.be/JUaMFVDV9PQ NBC - https://youtu.be/S1XUwbtMxfE Corinthian hearings - https://youtu.be/tkKmjyuoKyY Betsy Devos highlights - https://youtu.be/Mc2n9uacQq4 Trump’s school choice proposal - http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-school-choice-proposal-227915   Next time, we’ll look back at campus challenges and controversies of 2016, in our annual review of higher ed headaches! (Stay tuned until after the closing credits for some bloopers!)

Missy Park, founder of Title Nine shares how sports can affect outcomes for girls in life and in business.

Psychologist Ravoof, Coach Kuczi, Coach Notis, Nitin Nalin and junior athletes on The Journey with their reactions and expertise on dealing with loss, alongside valuable insight from a young athlete's mom, Leeza Morris. RyoSports.com A Sound Byte Life ILICET - A Time To Begin Again The Rat And The Alley Cat The Journey's Life Blog

The topic of today's podcast comes from an article in the American Profile. The article looks at what has happened to girl sports since Title Nine was passed forty years ago. Many girls have had an opportunity to play sports that they may not have otherwise played. Through coaching girls basketball, I have seen what sports can do for a teen's self esteem. I've seen girls make tremendous progress physically and emotionally through working hard and being part of a team. Those benefits are not limited to sports though. There are many activities that have similar benefits. Cara is part of the volleyball team at her school. She discusses some of the benefits that she has seen from her experience. Cara and Chantel have both been involved in theater and they discuss what benefits can come from participating in that activity. They also share some tips on how to get involved in different activities if you want to.

Sean Minton talks about Title Nine

Sean Minton talks about Title Nine