Podcasts about dominionism

What is the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)? And what does it have to do with conservative political power in the United States and abroad? Leah Payne and Caleb Maskell join Mark Labberton for a deep dive into the emergence and impact of the New Apostolic Reformation—a loosely affiliated global network blending Pentecostal Christian spirituality, charismatic authority, and political ambition. With their combined pastoral experience and scholarly expertise, Payne and Maskell chart the historical, theological, and sociopolitical roots of this Pentecostal movement—from Azusa Street and Latter Rain revivals to modern dominion theology and global evangelicalism. They distinguish the New Apostolic Reformation from the broader Pentecostal and charismatic traditions, and explore the popular appeal, theological complexity, and political volatility of the New Apostolic Reformation. Episode Highlights “Isn't this just conservative political activism with tongues and prophecy and dominion?” “At no point in time in the history of these United States … have Protestants not been interested in having a great deal of influence over public life.” “You can be super nationalistic in Guatemala, in Brazil, in India, and in the United States. … It is a portable form of nationalism.” “They are not moved by appeals to American democracy or American exceptionalism because they have in their mind the end times and the nation of Israel.” “Charismatics and Pentecostals, unlike other forms of American Protestantism … do not have a theological value for democracy.” Main Themes Pentecostalism's history and global influence Charismatic Christianity versus Pentecostalism Defining and explaining the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) C. Peter Wagner, Lance Hall, and Seven Mountain Mandate Dominion theology, Christian nationalism, and the religious Right Pentecostals and Trump politics Zionism in charismatic theology Vineyard movement, worship music, and intimacy with God Linked Media References About Vineyard USA God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music by Leah Payne The New Apostolic Churches by C. Peter Wagner This Present Darkness by Frank Peretti Atlantic Article: “The Army of God Comes Out of the Shadows” by Stephanie McCrummen Bonhoeffer's America: A Land Without Reformation, by Joel Looper Another Gospel: Christian Nationalism and the Crisis of Evangelical Identity, by Joel Looper Show Notes Leah Payne defines Pentecostalism as “a form of American revivalism” William J. Seymour Marked by interracial desegregated worship and spiritual “fireworks” like tongues and prophecy Mystical experiences of God Desegregation and physically touching one another in acts of miraculous healing The Azusa Street Revival (1906) identified as a global catalyst for Assemblies of God denomination There is no founding theological figure, unlike Luther or Calvin Caleb Maskell emphasizes Pentecostalism's roots in “a founding set of experiences,” not a founding theological figure “Limits to what makes a church” Lack of ecclesiological clarity leaves Pentecostalism open to both renewal and fragmentation Leah highlights Pentecostalism as “a shared experience … a shared series of practices.” “Holy Rollers” and being “slain in the Spirit” “A different way of knowing” “Christians are made through an encounter with Jesus.” The global “charismatic movement” and how it has had cross-denominational Influence “Charismatic” was a mid-twentieth-century term for Spirit-led practices arising within mainline Protestant and Roman Catholic traditions Charismatic means “gifted” or “being given gifts” “‘Charismatic' has typically been a more inclusive word than ‘Pentecostal.'” Emphasis on personal spiritual gifts and intimate worship styles “They are not respecters of institutions.” Figures like Oral Roberts and Amy Semple McPherson were “too big” for denominational constraints “Too-bigness” as driven by both an over-inflated ego and spiritual mysticism Frederick Buechner: “The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.” Spellbound, by Molly Worthen (see Conversing episode 212) What are the origins and key ideas of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)? New Apostolic Reformation: “a form of institutionalized charismatic identity that builds on grassroots consensus.” “NAR” coined by C. Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary in the 1990s Wagner promoted post-denominationalism and “reality-based” church governance centred on individual charismatic gifts Emerged from a “larger soup” of charismatic ideas—often practiced before being systematized. Closely tied to the “Seven Mountain Mandate”: that Christians should influence key societal sectors—family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government The role of dominion theology and political alignment “The convergence of egos, the convergence of ethos … is a natural thing to see emerging.” “Dominion is really just two or three logical steps from an obsession with cultural relevance.” Payne sees dominionism as a Pentecostal-flavoured version of a broader conservative political strategy. “Charismatics and Pentecostals are everywhere … so we should expect them on the far right.” Many deny the NAR label even as they operate in its mode. ”When Bob Dylan's in your church, suddenly your church is relevant, whether you like it or not.” Defining “Dominionism” “Dominion is really just two or three logical steps from an obsession with cultural relevance. Cultural relevance says church should fit—not prophetically, but should fit all but seamlessly—into modes of culture that people are already in.” What are the “Seven Mountains of Culture”?  Family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government—”the world would go better if Christians were in charge of each of those arenas.” “At no point in time in the history of these United States and the history of European settlers in the new world have Protestants not been interested in having a great deal of influence over public life.” Trump, Zionism, and global Pentecostal nationalism Christian nationalism versus religious Right “They are not moved by appeals to American democracy. … They think the nation of Israel is the nation of all nations.” “Isn't this just conservative political activism with tongues and prophecy and dominion?” Anti-institutional and anti-structural How Trump seeks power and ego affirmation Christian theocratic rule? ”It may simply be a part of what it is to be a Christian is to say, at some level, within the spheres that I'm given authority in, I ought to have the right kind of influence, whatever it is.” “ I think what's scary about the moment that we're in right now is in fact the chaos.” A book about Donald Trump—God's Chaos Candidate, by Lance Wall ”The beliefs in divine prophecy are so widespread that they transcend partisanship.” Black Pentecostalism: immune to the charms of Trump and populist conservatives Trump's Zionist overtures strategically captured charismatic loyalty The rise of global Pentecostal nationalism in countries like India, Brazil, and Guatemala parallels US patterns. “They don't actually care long-term about American democracy.” “They are not moved by appeals to American democracy or American exceptionalism because they have in their mind the end times and the nation of Israel.” Prosperity gospel Dominionism and the Roman Catholic “doctrine of discovery” The gospel of Christ as “sorting power” “It is a portable form of nationalism.” Concerns about power, order, and eschatology Mark Labberton reflects on Fuller Seminary's controversial role in NAR's intellectual development. Payne critiques the equation of widespread Pentecostal practices with far-right dominionism. “What's scary … is the chaos. And a number of people associated with NAR have celebrated that.” NAR theology often prioritizes divine chaos over institutional order. Warnings against super-biblical apostolic authority and spiritual authoritarianism. Pentecostalism beyond politics “There's a vivid essentialism—make everything great and all the nations will gather.” Vineyard worship as a counterweight to dominionism—emphasizing intimacy and mystical union with Christ. “That emphasis on Jesus as a friend … is a really beautiful image of God.” Vineyard music helped export a gentle, intimate charismatic spirituality. About Leah Payne Leah Payne is associate professor of American religious history at Portland Seminary and a 2023–2024 public fellow at the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). She holds a PhD from Vanderbilt University, and her research explores the intersection of religion, politics, and popular culture. Payne is author of God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music (Oxford University Press, 2024), and co-host of Rock That Doesn't Roll, a Public Radio Exchange (PRX) podcast about Christian rock and its listeners, and Weird Religion, a religion and pop culture podcast. Her writing and research has appeared in The Washington Post, NBC News, Religion News Service, and Christianity Today. About Caleb Maskell Caleb Maskell is the associate national director of theology and education for Vineyard USA. Born in London, he immigrated with his family to New Jersey in 1986, at the age of nine. Caleb has been involved in leadership in the Vineyard movement for twenty-five years. After spending a gap year at the Toronto Airport Vineyard School of Ministry in 1995, he went to the University of Chicago to study theology, philosophy, and literature in the interdisciplinary undergraduate Fundamentals program. While there, he joined the core planting team of the Hyde Park Vineyard Church, where he served as a worship leader, a small group leader, a setter-up of chairs, and whatever else Rand Tucker asked him to do. After college, full of questions that had emerged from the beautiful collision of serious academic study and the practical realities of church planting, Caleb enrolled in the MDiv program at Yale Divinity School. For four years, he immersed himself in the study of theology, church history, and Scripture, while also leading worship and working with middle school and high school youth groups. After graduating in 2004, he worked for three years as the associate director of the Jonathan Edwards Center at Yale University. In 2007, along with his wife Kathy and their friends Matt and Hannah Croasmun, Caleb planted Elm City Vineyard Church in New Haven, Connecticut. That year, he also began a PhD program at Princeton University, focusing on the history of American religion, with an additional emphasis in African American studies. After moving to Manhattan for four years while Kathy went to seminary, the Maskells ended up in suburban Philadelphia, where Caleb completed his PhD while teaching regularly at Princeton Theological Seminary, and serving as the worship pastor at Blue Route Vineyard Church. Since 2010, Caleb has led the Society of Vineyard Scholars, which exists to foster and sustain a community of theological discourse in and for the Vineyard movement. Caleb is passionate about developing leaders and institutions that will help to produce a healthy, courageous, and hospitable future for the church in the twenty-first century. Caleb and Kathy now live with their two kids, Josiah and Emmanuelle, in the heart of Denver, where Kathy pastors East Denver Vineyard Church. Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.

In this episode I'm joined by my co-conspirator in cosmic chaos, Stephanie, as we unravel the tangled web of Theosophy—from Madame Blavatsky's mystical manifesto to its quiet grip on today's political and spiritual movements.Why Listen? If you're into hidden histories, esoteric power structures, and how ancient spiritual ideas keep creeping into modern politics, this episode is for you. Think less woo-woo, more what the actual hell is going on here.

Dominion theology, also known as dominionism, is a group of far-right Christian political ideologies that seek to institute a nation governed by Christians and based on their understandings of Biblical law.

The Swayze Boys wacth Swayze's interviews in episodes 933 and 1614 of Conan's run as the host of Late Night. Is Swayze acting like a himbo as a joke in the context of Late Night Patriarchy, or did Buddy have too much to drink? Featuring an unexpected discussion of Dominionism, and many calls to action (swayzepod@gmail.com)!

In this TALKS Episode Tim engages with journalist Heath Drusen, who spent a year immersed in the world of Christian nationalism, particularly focusing on Doug Wilson's influence in Moscow, Idaho. They explore the nuances of Christian nationalism, including its roots in Theonomy and Dominionism, the patriarchal structures it promotes, and the alarming implications for American society. Heath shares insights from his interviews, revealing the extreme views held by leaders in this movement and the serious threat they pose to democracy and individual freedoms. Chapters 04:44 Inside Christian Nationalism: A Year with Doug Wilson 20:12 Patriarchy and the Civil War Obsession 29:17 Healing and Finding Voice in Community 32:49 Concerns Over Women's Rights and LGBTQ Rights 39:31 The Media's Role in Addressing Christian Nationalism 56:58 Path Forward: Building Coalitions Against Christian Nationalism Heath on X | @hdruzin Heath's Podcast | Extremely American _______________________________ If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. This show is produced by Josh Gilbert Media | Joshgilbertmedia.com We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you've been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We've built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

[Original airdate: 6/28/24] We welcome back Kyle Peart and Flynn Huseby of Once Lost Ministries, apologists and evangelists who work tirelessly to bring truth and clarity to those caught up in false teaching. Today we discuss the Catholic faith and the various aspects that are unscriptural: Tradition, relics, sacraments, purgatory, and veneration of Mary. With all the religious aspects, extra-biblical focus and gospel of good works, how is it that a Catholic can never be assured of salvation? There is a lot of busy-ness, as in all religions, but none of it ever seems to produce the fruit of repentance and a biblical understanding of the new birth. We also discuss the ecumenical bent that has long been part of this huge denomination but we have to ask ourselves, to what end? Dominionism, or something more sneaky - the desire to bring all Protestants "home to Rome". A thoughtful discussion that will hopefully open eyes to the vanity of religiousity. Shameless plug for swag for our listeners/donors! https://www.redpillprints.com/stand-up-for-the-truth - Thanks for YOUR Support!

This week, Loren and Amber discuss the cost of following Christ, especially when one's cherished way of life might be at stake. Is it wrong to defend our rights as Americans or to fight to keep the privileges we've always enjoyed? Is it wrong to allow others to infringe on those rights and privileges? What makes us truly Christian and truly patriotic?  As we dig deeper into Christian Nationalism and the Doctrine of Dominionism, we're finding some profound theological questions popping up, ones that challenge our notions of "right" and "wrong" when it comes to God, politics, and love of country. 

Welcome to Season 14 of the show in which recurring favorite, Loren Romeus, and I take another -- more informed, more loving, and fairer -- stab at the exploration of Christian nationalism and the doctrine of dominionism which is enjoying a resurgence in America.  On today's episode, we define our terms and explain why we think this is a conversation worth having again. Our relationship to power, safety, and control informs how we see the world, God, and ourselves. And the way we see all of that informs the way we show up and how we influence. Join us as we dig a little deeper for the gold in this election cycle story. 

Join Charlie and Brian, non-binary Christopagan Druids, as they delve into the Christopagan Manifesto and discuss breaking free from the chains of the Imperial church. Explore the journey that began in 1998, influenced by thinkers like Bishop John Shelby Spong, and the evolution of their spiritual path. This episode focuses on the confluence of church and empire, the pitfalls of dominionism and fundamentalism, and the need for unity rooted in diversity. Discover their call to rise up against spiritual authoritarianism and embrace a new, Christopagan spirituality. Thank you for Liking and Subscribing to this podcast Thank you for sharing this episode with your loved ones, friends and community Thank you for Tips or Donations: https://ko-fi.com/cedorsett https://patreon.com/cedorsett Substack: https://www.creationspaths.com/ For all of the things we are doing at The Seraphic Grove go to Creation's Paths https://www.creationspaths.com/ For Educational Resource: https://wisdomscry.com Creation's Paths Podcast: http://www.creationspaths.com/podcast Church of the Oak Podcast: http://churchoftheoak.com/ Hallowstead Podcast: http://hallowstead.com/ Social Connections: BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/creationspaths.com Threads https://www.threads.net/@creationspaths Instagram https://www.instagram.com/creationspaths/ Chapters: 00:00 The Empire Must Fall 01:07 Introduction and Personal Background 01:57 The Seraphic Manifesto 03:20 Identifying the Real Problem 03:33 The Issue with Dominionism and Fundamentalism 04:12 The Confluence of Church and Empire 07:09 The Struggle with Christian Identity 10:09 The Two Commandments and Love 11:50 Healing and Solace 11:57 The Institution's Role and Confusion 12:32 The Church and State Relationship 12:44 Historical Context: Constantine to Reformation 14:16 The Impact of Power on Faith 16:22 Blasphemy and Truth 17:07 Paul's Teachings and Misinterpretations 17:50 Christopaganism and Celtic Roots 19:56 The Gospel of Judas and Church Critique 22:07 Modern Implications and Christian Nationalism 23:15 Conclusion and Call to Action

In this episode we're joined by Dr. Valerie Hobbs (@vhobbs5), Senior Lecturer in the School of English at the University of Sheffield and author of No Love in War: A Story of Christian Nationalism (@MayflyBooks). In this episode we discuss Dr Hobb's autoethnographic book about growing up in Christian Dominionism and the violence she witnessed and experienced, as well as the ways these ideologies continue to inflict harm. We also discuss the power of sharing our stories when it comes to truth-telling and the impact of witnesses who see and believe those stories. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Stanley Ng (@pstanng) and Dr Sydney Tooth (S_E_Tooth). Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Episode 516 of the A Minute to Midnite Show. Joanie Stahl joins Tony K. There is so much deception being peddled by the Seven Mountains, Dominionist and NAR false prophets. Many Christians are falling for it. Will you be one of them?

We welcome back Kyle Peart and Flynn Huseby of Once Lost Ministries, apologists and evangelists who work tirelessly to bring truth and clarity to those caught up in false teaching. Today we discuss the Catholic faith and the various aspects that are unscriptural: Tradition, relics, sacraments, purgatory, and veneration of Mary. With all the religious aspects, extra-biblical focus and gospel of good works, how is it that a Catholic can never be assured of salvation? There is a lot of busy-ness, as in all religions, but none of it ever seems to produce the fruit of repentance and a biblical understanding of the new birth. We also discuss the ecumenical bent that has long been part of this huge denomination but we have to ask ourselves, to what end? Dominionism, or something more sneaky - the desire to bring all Protestants "home to Rome". A thoughtful discussion that will hopefully open eyes to the vanity of religiousity. Shameless plug for swag for our listeners/donors! https://www.redpillprints.com/stand-up-for-the-truth - Thanks for YOUR Support!

Welcome to the second half of a two-part exposé on the NAR movement in America. Candice continues her conversation with former insider, Nikki G, who shares more about the strategic aims of this belief system and how dominion theology has long been carving out a space in US politics. They touch a bit more on the Heritage Foundation's presidential playbook (Project 2025), specifically its focus on unitary executive theory; in other words, the doing-away with checks and balances. Then Nikki courageous shares about the years she spent on the front lines of the pro-life movement. She takes us behind the scenes of ‘TheCall' anti-abortion marches - the red ‘LIFE' tape she wore, the 12-hour prayer and fasting sessions she attended, and how she believed she was “on the right side of history.” Nikki reveals how her views have since changed, sharing her more nuanced understanding of the right to choose as well as retroactive realizations she's had as a Black cult survivor. Inspired by both personal experiences and professional expertise, Nikki offers TDP listeners some timely advice on how to navigate relationships with friends and loved ones who are under the influence of this radical ideology. The episode wraps with a reminder that knowledge is power. Candice & Nikki don't have a solution to the current political crisis, so they instead share how they are staying informed and taking good care in equal measure.Nikki G. is a Certified Trauma Recovery Coach  who helps survivors recover and thrive after Religious Trauma & Cult involvement. She is also survivor of multiple narcissistic relationships, religious trauma, and several cultic communities. Nikki is the CEO of Nikki G Speaks LLC, which provides survivors with individual coaching, online community, and psychoeducation related to religious trauma, narcissistic abuse, and cult involvement. Nikki is a co-host of the podcast “Surviving the Black Church” where she and her co-hosts delve into conversations regarding religious trauma in the Black Church. She is also the co-founder of The Black Religious Trauma Recovery Network and she sits on the board of directors for Tears of Eden, a non-profit organization that supports survivors who have experienced abuse in the evangelical community. nikkigspeaks.com | @nikki_g_speaksReferenced In This Episode:Politico Article - Christian Nationalism & TrumpThe New Republic - NAR & ‘Political Takeover'Daily Kos - NAR is 'Stalking Democracy'André Gagné - for more on religious violenceSupport the Show.The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.

In this episode, I describe the National Prayer Breakfast movement, right-wing Christian nationalists, Reconstructionists, and non-denominational charismatic Christian nationalists.  My guests for this episode are:Julie Ingersoll, Professor of religion at the University of North Florida and author of Building God's Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian ReconstructionJonathan Larsen: Journalist, https://jonathanlarsen.substack.com/Joel McDurmon: Attorney, theologian, and author of several books including The Problem of Slavery in Christian America. Katherine Stewart: Journalist, author of Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism. The documentary God and Country, produced by Rob Reiner is based on this book. Matthew Taylor: Senior scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian and Jewish Studies and author of the book due out on September 24, The Violent Take It by Force: The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy.Resources mentioned:The Family by Jeff Sharlet - https://www.netflix.com/title/80063867 (full disclosure, I appear in three segments of this series)Kevin Kruse, One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America.SHOW NOTESClosing Song - American Dream by Kate Thornburyhttps://open.spotify.com/track/5Fq2zf9Z8jCFLN1EOeYun6?si=4d1ee70f65304625Theme Song - The World Awaits Us Allhttps://open.spotify.com/track/1itsWJuQnnx5bPbNJpkx51?si=621fb898b60f4ccbBackground music: Dustin Blatnik, Warren Throckmorton, Jon Comden, the Columbia Band

The Rise of Christian Nationalism, Dominionism and the New Apostolic Reformation Movements | The Supreme Court Appears Open To Giving Tech Giants Immunity From Content on Their Social Media Platforms | Powerful Leaders, Investors and Celebrities Suck Up to MbS's Sovereign Wealth Fund backgroundbriefing.org/donate twitter.com/ianmastersmedia facebook.com/ianmastersmedia

Sunday School Message: Jude to the Last Days Church Sunday Teacher: Pastor Stan Johnson Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Teacher: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday School Message: Jude to the Last Days Church Sunday Teacher: Pastor Stan Johnson Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Teacher: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday School Message: Jude to the Last Days Church Sunday Teacher: Pastor Stan Johnson Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Teacher: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday School Message: Jude to the Last Days Church Sunday Teacher: Pastor Stan Johnson Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Teacher: Prophet Leslie Johnson

What's a husband box? Come find out!  We had a Q and A heyday this month! We get into the deep stuff (and the fun stuff) with the Seven Mountain Mandate, Dominionism and armament, what to tell the kids when you leave domestic abuse, Valentine's Day, hymns that become ear worms, Christian Mean Girls and more.  Stay fresh, betches! Resources from Today: Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski Come Together by Emily Nagoski  Sexual Healing (audio only) by Peter Levine The views and opinions expressed by the hosts of the Wise Jezebels are their own. This podcast does  not take the place of therapy, medical advice, or any other healing modality. For support in resolving and recovering from religious trauma, purity culture, cults, fundamentalism, and other adverse religious experiences, we encourage people to check out the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery–a fully online trauma coaching company specializing in working with folks coming out of high control groups, systems, and relationships. The Wise Jezebels podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups.  Follow Tia on Instagram and TikTok @tialevingswriter or on her website: www.tialevings.com  Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com  The Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery Website: www.traumaresolutionandrecovery.com IG/Facebook: @traumaresolutionandrecovery     Hosts:  Tia Levings and Laura Anderson Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Speaker: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Speaker: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Speaker: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Sunday Message: What is Dominionism? Sunday Speaker: Prophet Leslie Johnson

Guest Bios Show Transcript How did loving your enemies—a command of Jesus—suddenly become a sign that you're “woke”? And why is “owning the libs” now the answer to “What would Jesus do?”  On this edition of The Roys Report, bestselling author and journalist Tim Alberta joins host Julie Roys to explore a disturbing phenomenon in American evangelicalism. Though once evangelicals understood that the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of man were separate, now the two are being combined into an unholy mix. And sadly, for millions of conservative Christians, America is their kingdom—and proper adherence to their political ideology is their litmus test for Christian orthodoxy! On this podcast, you'll hear Julie's compelling conversation with Tim, exploring how evangelicals got into this mess—and if, and how, we can get ourselves out. Yet Tim doesn't speak as an outside critic passing judgment, but as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor.  Tim spent years sifting through the wreckage of American evangelicalism, interviewing pastors, evangelical/political activists, congregants, and scholars. The result is his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, which tells story after illuminating story of major players and institutions within the evangelical movement that have succumbed to political idolatry.  One example is Liberty University, founded in 1971 by Jerry Falwell Sr. Recent headlines have exposed how Senior's now-disgraced son, Jerry Falwell, Jr., made Liberty into a far-right, culture warring, money-making powerhouse. But is this mixing of the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man a corruption of Senior's vision—or, is it the culmination of it? And what does it say that everyone—the administration, board, and Liberty supporters—were all fine with it, as long as the money was coming in?  Tim also shares stunning admissions he got during one-on-one interviews with major evangelical/political figures, like Robert Jeffress and Ralph Reed. In private, these men confessed that they know mixing political advocacy with the gospel is misleading and wrong. Yet, as Tim documents, these men keep doing it! Yet Tim also offers stories of hope—like his chapter on Rev. Dr. John Dickson, who teaches at the flagship evangelical school, Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill. In it, Tim explains why Dickson has become a missionary to America—and how Christians can lose the culture wars yet live joyfully and winsomely among unbelievers. Tim's book also includes a chapter on exposing abuse and corruption, featuring Rachel Denhollander's work and our work at The Roys Report. On the podcast, we discuss why our reporting is so important and why this chapter is Tim's mother's favorite! This is such an important podcast for Christians wanting to remain true to their calling to worship God first and foremost, rather than succumb to political idolatry.  Guests Tim Alberta Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal and National Review. He is the author of The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism and the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump. He lives in southeast Michigan with his wife and three sons. Show Transcript SPEAKERS TIM ALBERTA, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04 How did loving your enemies, a command of Jesus, suddenly become a sign that you're woke? And why is owning the libs now the answer to what would Jesus do? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys and joining me on this podcast is New York Times bestselling author Tim Alberta, whose latest book explores what happened to American evangelicalism. Decades ago, Americans viewed evangelicalism favorably. In 1976, author and historian Gary Wills called evangelicalism, the major religious force in America, both in numbers and an impact. And leading evangelical thinkers claimed that evangelicalism could no longer be regarded as reactionary but was vigorously and sometimes creatively speaking to the needs of the contemporary world. Fast forward to today and evangelicalism has become synonymous with Donald Trump, a thrice married vulgar opportunist who said he doesn't need to repent or ask for forgiveness. A recent poll by Pew Research found that the only religious group that views evangelicals favorably are evangelicals. And as Tim Alberta notes in his book in 1991 90% of Americans identified as Christians, but today, only 63% do. What happened to this once vibrant movement? And can it be saved, or has it passed beyond the point of no return? Un his new book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory. Tim Alberta does a masterful job of exploring these questions, but he doesn't do it as an outside critic passing judgment. But as a practicing Christian and the son of an evangelical pastor. I found Tim's book eye opening on many levels, and I'm so excited to share this interview with you. Julie Roys  01:47 But before I do, I want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you're looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you're looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That's because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity, to check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys  02:51 Well, again, joining me is Tim Alberta, a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico. Tim also is the author of The New York Times best seller American Carnage on the Frontlines of the Republican Civil War, and the Rise of President Trump. And his latest book, The Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory, explores American evangelicals in an age of extremism. So, Tim, welcome. It is just such a pleasure to be with you again. TIM ALBERTA  03:16 Yes, Julie, it is. It's great to catch up with you and come sort of full circle from where we were a couple of years ago talking about all of this. Julie Roys  03:24 That's right. We spent a couple of well, more than a couple of hours. I think it was supposed to be like maybe an hour and a half, and we got so into our discussion. I think we closed down one coffee shop and went to another. TIM ALBERTA  03:35 We did. I hijacked your whole day. Julie Roys  03:38 Oh, it was fantastic. And so, encouraging to me, but always fun to talk to a fellow journalist with similar convictions. And I was excited about this book when we had our discussion. I'm so honored, I have to say, you know, to get the galley of the book, and I figured because we spent so much time that I'd be in it, but you know, just what you wrote, and the way that you captured some things just so honored to be featured in a chapter with Rachel den Hollander. So, thank you so much for that. I just really appreciate it. TIM ALBERTA  04:07 I should tell you that is my mother's favorite chapter of the book. Oh, for what it's worth, because she's big into strong feminine Christian leadership. And so, she was particularly smitten with you and with Rachel. So, I thought you should know that. Julie Roys  04:21 Oh, wow. Well, I'm honored. I really am. And I should mention that we are offering your book as a premium to anybody who gives $50 or more to The Roys Report in this month. Again, this is just a way that you're able to support the work that we do, but also get this fantastic book. Just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE if you're able to help us out and continue the work that we do, and also get what could be a great Christmas present for somebody or for yourself. So anyway, encourage you to do that. Well, Tim, as I mentioned in the open, you're not writing this book as sort of an outsider critiquing evangelicalism. You grew up evangelical, your dad was an evangelical pastor. And oddly enough, it was at your dad's funeral in 2019, that something sort of awakened you to the severity of what's happening right now within evangelicalism. Tell us a bit about that story. TIM ALBERTA  05:17 Yeah, so my dad, Reverend Richard Alberta, was an amazing, amazing guy. We were very close. And he had a pretty crazy come to Jesus story himself where he was actually kind of a hotshot New York finance guy. And my mom was kind of a hotshot, young journalist with ABC Radio. They lived in New York and my dad, despite having all of this worldly material success, just felt this emptiness. And he was an atheist. He grew up in an unbelieving home. And he, one day stumbled into this church in the Hudson Valley, and heard the gospel and he gave his life to Christ. And it was already a pretty dramatic conversion because he became completely unrecognizable to people around him, including my mom, who was not yet a Christian. Everybody who knew him just thought he was sort of losing it. Suddenly, he's waking up at four in the morning to read his Bible and meditate in prayer for hours. And they're all like, what is this guy doing? And then pretty soon after that, he feels the Lord calling him to ministry. And now they all think he's like certifiable, right? You know, but he follows the Lord's calling. And, you know, he and my mom who became a Christian, they sell all the possessions so he can go to seminary, and they basically they give up this pretty lavish lifestyle they'd had. And for the next like, 20 years, they just work in small churches and live on food stamps and serve the Lord that way. And then when I come along, some years later, we eventually settle in Brighton, which is a suburb of Detroit. And my dad builds this kind of small startup church there into kind of a mega church. And that was my home. It was my community. It was my whole life, really. My mom was on the staff there at the church as well. It was called Cornerstone Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I was raised physically, literally, inside of that church. TIM ALBERTA  07:11 And so, my dad dies a few years back. And when I came back to the church for the funeral, because of the work I've done in politics, and because I had just recently written this book about Trumpism and his takeover of the Republican Party, I was kind of in the crosshairs of right-wing media at that time, because of the book. And so, at the funeral or at the wake during the visitation, I had a bunch of people at the church kind of confronting me and wanting to argue about politics and about Trump and asking me if I was still a Christian and how I could be criticizing him this way. And it was pretty ugly. And as you said, sort of a wakeup call. Julie Roys  07:52 Yeah. And it is something isn't it when you don't support these people that certain evangelicalism believe you have to your, you know, I've got people praying for my salvation, because I've taken on John MacArthur, you know, It's craziness. But there is this tribalism now, within evangelicalism, and it's probably at its very worst when it comes to former President Trump and what he typified. It's interesting to me, you know, as I look at the evangelical movement, you know, I was a card-carrying conservative right? Before Trump came along, and then something really happened. And I feel like I was going back and reading a little bit of Chuck Colson's, Kingdoms in Conflict. Do you remember that book? TIM ALBERTA  08:34 I do. Yeah. Julie Roys  08:35 I mean, he was pretty even handed. I mean, he's very clear in there that being in the kingdom of heaven means it's not about ruling others, it's about being under God's rule. And yet something has tripped, where we're not saying that anymore. We're really become about this whole Dominionism. And he talks about the cultural mandate and things like that, but it's from a very, very different perspective. So here we are dealing with all of this Christian nationalism, and according to your book, a lot of this began, and it's funny because now, Lynchburg Virginia has become synonymous with the Falwell's and with Liberty University. But I've got to say, growing up in the 80s, you know, I knew about the Moral Majority, and some of that, but it just wasn't that big to me. And yet it has grown and grown, and I guess I wasn't even aware of the influence it had. But talk about how a lot of this has its roots really there, in Lynchburg, Virginia, and with what Jerry Falwell Senior. started in, like the late 70s, early 80s. TIM ALBERTA  09:42 Sure, in the context of the American church experience, it is Lynchburg, Virginia. It is the mid-1970s. And it is Jerry Falwell Senior who was a brilliant businessman who, you know, this guy could sell anyone on anything, and he was kind of a master entrepreneur, also a master manipulator. And what Falwell Senior. effectively did, he had already built out Thomas Road Baptist Church into a massive congregation. And then he had tapped into the relatively new medium of television to broadcast his sermons around the country. At one point, he became the single most telecasted program in the entire country. And so, he's reaching millions of people and he's raising a lot of money. This is pretty cutting-edge stuff at the time, but he's building out a mailing list with like more than 10 million names on it, and they are raking in money. So, then he already has his church. But Falwell, Senior is really almost the early archetype of the Christian nationalist. He believes that sort of fighting for God and fighting for America is one in the same and that if America falls, then almost God's kingdom on earth will fall. And so he recognizes that he needs something more than a church; that he needs kind of a cultural stronghold. So, he does two things. First, he takes this little Baptist College Lynchburg Baptist College, and at the time of the bicentennial in 1976, he rebrands it to Liberty University, and he changes the colors from green and gold to red, white, and blue. And basically, they do this whole patriotic rebranding exercise, which is aimed at tapping into not only patriotism in the church, but also tapping into the percolating low simmering at the time, fear in the church and grievance in the church. This sense that, you know, abortion is now legal. Pornography is prevalent, the drug culture is out of control. Prayer is banned in public schools. Secularism is on the march and they're coming for us like they are coming for Christianity in America. And so, Jerry Falwell turns Liberty University into this cause, and then piggybacks onto that with this new organization, The Moral Majority. So suddenly, he's got these three cogs. And he builds out this machine, Falwell Senior does, and it is incredibly effective. They mobilize 10s of millions of voters and sort of bring them under this banner of not just, you know, Christianity, not just following Jesus, but a very particular type of Christianity, a sort of subculture of a subculture. And in many ways, those seeds planted by Falwell 50 years ago, we are harvesting them now. And what we are dealing with, you know, the fracturing of the modern evangelical movement, I think you can trace it directly back to that period. Julie Roys  12:36 It's so interesting, because I think when you talk about Jerry Falwell Senior, and I've talked to a lot of people from Liberty, I've done a lot of reporting about Liberty. And a lot of folks look very wistfully back to the early days, and these are good people, you know, I've talked extensively to them. They're really good people, sincere believers. They look at what's happened to Liberty, and they're like, this isn't Senior. Like Senior loved the Lord and he really was sincere in his walk with the Lord and Junior just was like, we don't know how Junior happened, right? I mean, that's how they often talk about it. I'm going to have you come back to that, because I think what you present is a very, very different picture and honestly, one that I've begun to suspect myself. But let's talk about what happens with you know, Senior dies pretty abruptly right of a heart attack. And then Jerry Falwell, Junior, who is the lawyer, right? He takes over not Jonathan Falwell, who's the pastor, much more of the spiritual leader, but Jerry Falwell, Junior takes over. Very clearly, I'm not a spiritual leader. I mean, he really assued that whole entire title. But when he takes over, despite all the success that his dad had, the school was on the brink of bankruptcy at this point, right? And he kind of turns it around. 13:57 So, Falwell, Junior. is the yes, the UVA trained lawyer, businessman, real estate developer, who is a smart guy. He knows business. And he had really kept the church and organized religion at arm's length. His younger brother Jonathan was the preacher in the family. But Jerry Junior, he'd gone to Liberty for his undergraduate studies. And he says that, you know, he believes in the teachings of Jesus but rejects a lot of the other stuff that comes with it, including Liberty itself. Jerry Junior never wanted to really be a part of Liberty. And suddenly as he's working in the private sector, the school is about to go under. Jerry Senior has really badly mismanaged the finances and he tells his son that basically the school is on the brink of insolvency. And so, Jerry Junior kind of reluctantly comes aboard and he helps to stabilize everything, and he makes a lot of drastic cuts to the different programs and kind of rejiggers the whole balance sheet operation. And he saves Liberty in a lot of ways that, you know, his father gave him credit for that. And it's interesting though, Julie, that when Jerry Falwell senior dies, it's not an accident that Jerry Junior. takes over. That was the plan of succession. It's notable that here is Jerry Falwell senior, who is both businessman and culture warrior, but also a preacher. And he's got these two sons that exemplify one of each, right? He's got the son who's a preacher. And he's got the other son who's the kind of culture warrior businessman. And he appoints the latter to take over Liberty after he's gone. And that in and of itself, I think, speaks volumes. And then more to the point, Jerry Junior, as you said, he comes in and he tells anybody who will listen, look, I'm not a religious leader, I'm not here charged with the spiritual well-being of this school. I'm here to turn us into a powerhouse, I'm here to turn us into a highly profitable, highly influential organization that can sort of, you know, push back against the forces of secularism in the left in this country. But he doesn't, to his credit, I suppose. Falwell Junior, he doesn't pretend that he's something that he's not. And the irony of it all, Julie is that everybody was fine with it. They were fine with it. Right? They were, as you know, when the money was coming in, and the buildings were going up at a rapid clip, and the endowment was bulging, everybody was fine with it. Because he's Jerry Senior's namesake, and he's a Falwell, and the school is doing great. Clearly God is blessing this project. So, what's not to like? Julie Roys  16:47 Well, and you say everyone was fine with it. And it's true on a public face, everyone was fine with it. I will say I started hearing from a lot of people who weren't fine with it from I mean, obviously the Jane DOE's and now we know about who were victims of sexual assault, and their cases got just horribly mismanaged. In fact, not even reported. And you know, now we have the Department of Education looking into how badly Liberty bungled these cases and violated Title Nine mandates, and they could face like a 30 some million dollar fine, which could be one of the largest ever. So, this was percolating under the surface, but nobody knew about it at the time. And I also talked to a lot of professors who were like, the way this place is being run is abysmal. There's nothing Christian about it. The way the administration handles things, there's nothing Christian about it. And we know too, from some of the people you interviewed, it was less like a religious institution and more like a mafia like a mob boss. Like Jerry turned into I think Jerry is very, he's very likable when you meet him. I mean, obviously very socially gifted, even though he's an introvert. He seems like this kind of your good old boy that, you know, everybody likes. But he began to become very controlling, and lock that place down where Jerry ruled with really an iron fist. And by the time some of the stuff started coming out about him, that place I mean, am I right, that it was a lot less like a Christian institution a lot more like the organized crime syndicate? TIM ALBERTA  18:24 Yeah, well, and listen like this is so Julie. It's funny, because obviously, you and I are in the same line of work. We're coming at this from pretty similar worldviews, and we're having similar conversations, with some of the same people. And you're exactly right when they're using the term family business. You know, Liberty is a family business. They're not just talking about like the Falwell family. There's, you know, the implication there is like very clearly that there is almost a mafioso-esque quality to, you don't cross the Falwell's, the power is concentrated in a few hands here. If you get a seat at the table, you are just lucky to be there and you nod and you know, at one point, I think I make sort of an offhand smart aleck comparison to like the North Korean military where, you know, you stand and salute the dear leader and don't dare step out of line. And of course, that's tragic on a number of levels, one of them being that Liberty has been filled over the years with really good and godly students and good and godly professors who are there for the right reasons. Some of these professors who started to really see the rot from the inside., they chose to stick around because on the one hand, they could see the success around them. The kind of observable material success that you know that the campus is absolutely stunning. Maybe God is doing something really marvelous here and I just have to kind of see my way through this part of it. But I also think that there's a level of devotion, and a feeling for some of these people that they wanted to help right the ship, that they wanted to be a part of the solution. And obviously, those are some of the characters I talk to in the book who now have finally gotten to a breaking point where they say, you know what? I just can't do it anymore. And not only can I not do it anymore, but the world needs to know, the whistle needs to be blown here that like this is not okay. Julie Roys  20:21 What does it say about evangelicalism, Tim, that when the money was coming in, and the money still is coming in, that everybody was okay with how godless this place was? And anybody that was in administration knew and saw it. The Board, who it's astounding to me that when Jerry Falwell Junior, got embroiled in this big sex scandal, and he gets fired, that Jerry Prevo takes over. And we think that that is a change of the guard. This was the man who was the chairman of the board the whole time that Jerry was doing all of this stuff. It's shocking to me, but yet I see it so much in so many different Christian organizations. And so, what is it about us that we're okay with these things, with really what is just absolute rampant hypocrisy? TIM ALBERTA  21:15 I'm afraid that in many ways, we're actually worse than some of those secular institutions. Because of this idea of the prosperity gospel, it's almost become like this proper noun. And so, people feel like well, those are those people are crazy. I'm not one of them, I'm not a part of that, right? But the idea inherent to the prosperity gospel, right is that, well, if you give to the Lord, and if you serve the Lord, if you follow the Lord, then you will be blessed. But that is so conveniently and so easily reverse engineered by a lot of Christians, either at a conscious or at a subconscious level, where when you see any sort of material success around you, you then say, well, clearly, I'm blessed. Clearly, the Lord is blessing this project. And that creates a kind of a permission structure, I think, for a lot of us to then turn a blind eye to things that are very obviously wrong, or kind of downplay things that you otherwise would never downplay. And whether that's an individual church congregation, whether that's a big college campus, whether it's the President of the United States, this can manifest in a lot of different ways. It's so much based on that kind of material thinking that I think we are particularly vulnerable, particularly susceptible to it here in the American church. I think the saddest part about it is that many of us just don't see it, or maybe don't want to see it. I don't know. Julie Roys  22:44 Your book has a stunning quote, stunning quote by a former professor, Dr. Aaron Warner. And he says, and I quote, Jerry, Senior, was always a bit of a scoundrel, and Jerry Junior, perfected the art of using fear and hatred as a growth strategy. Christianity happens to be the thing that they used to build a multibillion-dollar institution. It could have been anything else. It could have been moonshine, but they chose Christianity. And it's gained them a lot of power and a lot of money; the two things these people truly worship. You talked to a lot of people, interviewed a lot of people at Liberty. Is that characterization fair? Or do you think it's a little too harsh? TIM ALBERTA  23:23 It's harsh, that's for sure. It might contain some traces of hyperbole. But I will say this, Aaron Werner is another guy who knows that institution very well. Went there as an undergraduate, has deep longstanding ties to Liberty And the stories he tells from the inside are stunning. One of the other quotes, actually, I thought it might be the one that you're going to read because it kind of runs right along in parallel to that one is from a current professor. Now, at the time of this recording, he's a current professor. My sense is that when the book releases and when this gets back to the administration that he could be dismissed and he's expecting that that will happen. But his name is Nick Olsen, and he's an English professor, very popular English professor there. Brilliant, godly young guy. And he's a legacy at Liberty. His dad was one of the first students at Liberty and a contemporary of Falwell Senior. And Nick has sort of agonized in recent years with this inheritance at Liberty and everything that he's seen and struggled with there. And he says to me, this is not quite verbatim, but he says this to me in the final chapter of the book, he says, Jerry Junior, thought that he was fulfilling his father's vision by assuing spiritual stuff and by building out this massive multibillion dollar like culture warring Republican institution. And he says, and it is heartbreaking, because that's exactly what he's done, and he did fulfill Jerry Senior's vision. And I think that piece of it, Julie is not hyperbole. I think that when you spend enough time digging through the archives and talking to people who were there in the room where it happened, so to speak, it becomes pretty self-evident. And by the way, you know, you mentioned earlier that there are people who will say, Yeah, but you know, Jerry Senior, he really loved the Lord. Yeah, well, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I mean, I'm not suggesting that he didn't love the Lord. But I'm suggesting that like many people who love the Lord, he got his priorities out of whack. And by the way, we are all susceptible to this. But it's very hard to evaluate the history of Liberty University, the decisions made there, the structure of the place and the personnel and how they've treated people and what the benchmarks have been. It's very hard to assess all of that and reach any other conclusion than the one that Nick Olsen reaches at the end of the book. Julie Roys  25:41 And yet Liberty continues to be the largest Christian university in the country. It still has this dominance, there's still a lot of people that I know sending their kids there. And it's heartbreaking to me. I mean, I just wonder at what point do we say enough, and we stand up to this? And I'm glad that people are starting to speak out. But sometimes I wonder if it's too little too late, when we have just these juggernaut organizations and it really has been a marrying of two kingdoms that should be in conflict, and we're trying to say that they can be married together the kingdom of this world, the kingdom, the political realm, and the kingdom of Christ. And Jesus never became a political leader. It's stunning to me some of these quotes that are in your book, that are just like you expect a lightning to fall out of the sky, the way that scripture and Jesus are being misrepresented. It's just so awful. Julie Roys  26:37 In your first section, though, I have to say there's always some redeeming thing in each section, which I'm like, Thank You, Lord. It's like a palate cleanser in a lot of just awful stuff. But you have this beautiful chapter. And it's on a guy, John Dixon, who I actually got to know in my reporting on Ravi Zacharias, because John used to be a speaker for Ravi Zacharias International Ministries. And he was one of those who, you know, pretty early in the game as things were starting to come out, recognized that there were some lies being told by the institution he had been a part of, and he quickly made a break, and he boldly took a stand. I mean, I really respected him for that, that he didn't seem to have this Oh, fear of, if I say something, what's going to happen to me? I mean, he just said what was right, and what was what was true. And now he's at Wheaton College, which is right in my backyard. And what I love is that he's so joyfully on the losing team. You know, we've got all of these people, all these Christians out there telling us we have to be on the winning team, we got to take America back. And here's John Dixon saying, No, we're on the losing team right now. I mean, eventually, when Christ comes back, we'll be you know, he will set things right, and we'll be on the winning team. But for now, we're kind of on the losing team. And it's okay, people. So, talk about John and what we can learn from him and his example, because again, he's from Australia, which is probably about 10 or 15 years ahead of us in sort of this post Christian era that, you know, is beginning to happen here as well. Julie Roys  28:16 And that is so tough for us. I mean, it's not tough for Chinese Christians to get this, right? I mean they get it right away. Because to be a believer means you have to get rid of everything, you can't hold on to anything, you're gonna lose all your power, all your position. But I think we've been, actually it's the curse of being prosperous. And being in a country where Christians have had the majority and where it actually was a plus, probably for my parents to be believers. I think it won't be for my children. But maybe that'll be a good thing. And maybe that's precisely what the church needs. We already think we're being persecuted, which is funny. We really aren't. But we may see it. And right now, I think most of the persecution we're getting is because of what you said that we're not because we're so holy, but because we're actually worse than the world in so many different ways. And we deserve it. TIM ALBERTA  28:16 John is really one of my favorite people I've met in all of the journeys that I was on, and one of my favorite characters in the book for exactly the reasons that you mentioned there. And the fact that he is not an American is, I think, a big part of his perspective, right? But I think also, there's something deeper embedded in the American psyche, about winning, about the need to dominate. I have a funny quote somewhere else in the book from somebody who had spent years living and studying and teaching in Canada, who talks about how Canadians just want fourth place, and then when they get the bronze, they're thrilled. And in America, if you don't get the gold, you're a total loser, right? And so, there's something, you know, about the American Christian experience that's so different. And so, John, one of my favorite scenes in all of this reporting that I did was, we're sitting in the cafeteria there at Wheaton College, surrounded by the flags of the world all around us in the cafeteria. And I say, Why did you come here? Like, really? Why did you come here? And he says, like, this is my mission field now, like the US is my mission field because of this, this stuff. Everything you and I are discussing right now. He said this stuff is like so toxic and so unhealthy. And the church is caught in this terrible pattern. That, by the way, is not new. Right? You go back to Constantine, there has been this obsession with worldly power this inclination to merge two kingdoms into one. So, what we're living through here is not new, in a lot of ways. And I think John is so brilliant in kind of illuminating the appropriate Christian perspective here, which is to say that if you care so much about winning and losing, then the good news is you've already won, right? The tomb is empty, Jesus conquered death, and you believe in him. So therefore, you're already a part of the kingdom. But this place, which is meant to be ephemeral, and unimportant ultimately, and just, you know, a step among the stairs, that if your identity here is wrapped up in winning and losing, then you can't really have your identity there. And he says, ultimately, you know, we're the death and resurrection people. Like losing, and losing well, is a part of the Christian experience. TIM ALBERTA  31:24 John Dixon talks about how there's sort of this inverse relationship historically, between the amount of cultural and social and political power held by Christians in a society and the health of Christianity in that society, right? In other words, when you hold the commanding heights, the Christian influence it actually tends to be pretty weak and pretty corrupted and pretty compromised. When you are at the margins and when you are truly countercultural, the witness thrives. And we've seen that throughout history. Another favorite character of mine in the book, Brian Zahnd, who's the pastor of a church out in Missouri, he talks about how difficult it is for American Christians to really appreciate how the Bible is written from the perspective of the underdog, right? The Hebrew slaves fleeing Egypt, and the first century Christians living under a brutal Roman occupation. Like they had no power, they had no influence. And yet they were so joyful, and they were so content because they had their kingdom, right? And it does give me unease even in my own personal life, just the things I enjoy the materials, the prosperity, the comforts; can I fully appreciate the baby born in a manger? can I fully identify with the vagrant preacher from the ghettos of Nazareth? You know, it's a hard thing. Julie Roys  32:42 And here's the reality; that message, which is Christ's message really doesn't sell well in America. Having your best life now sells in America. And what we're seeing right now, and this, you know, brings me to the second section in your book dealing with power, which again, we've got to take back, America, has become sort of the mantra that we're hearing from so many of these, you know, political rights. And it has just morphed into something where, and again, I said at the outset, I used to be very much politically engaged with the conservative movement. I am not anymore because I can't stomach it and what it's become. I felt like we were being salt. But now it's about dominating and doing it by any means possible, where we just get rid of our morality. And I was always brought up to believe and I think this is what Scripture teaches, that the means is as important as the end. And so, if we achieve a righteous end through an unrighteous means, then we've lost. We've completely lost because we have given up what makes us unique, and what makes us God honoring for something that we're saying is a God honoring, you know end. But again, this is what has happened in our country. And, and what's interesting in this section that just captured my imagination. I mean, I've wondered this, like, you take a Robert Jeffress, right? This guy's not dumb. He's a smart Southern Baptist preacher, clearly a savvy guy. He has built this mega church, but the things that came out of his mouth, especially when Trump was in power, but it's still there. The things that come out of his mouth, and I think, he's got to know that this is not in line with the Gospels. He's got to see this. And yet, publicly, you wouldn't hear that. But when you met with him privately, you began to hear some doubt in there and allowing you to see a little bit of vulnerability, although it didn't seem to last all that long. But talk about that, because I'm not sensing much doubt in the masses that follow these men. But when you get them one on one, tell me what you see. TIM ALBERTA  34:50 And it's not just Robert Jeffress, Greg Locke, Greg Locke, Ralph Reed. Yeah, yeah, a lot of these guys. It's the pastor who in my hometown, grew his church tenfold by basically turning Sunday morning worship services into Fox news segments. And giving a Nazi salute to Gretchen Whitmer from his pulpit. I mean, but then you get them one on one. And you press them a little bit. I mean, you know, politely, respectfully, but you press them. Suddenly, they not only back off a little bit, but they do a little bit of like winking and nodding at you to basically say, like, you're right, I'm definitely putting on a bit of a song and dance here for the masses. But I think that they will ultimately justify it by saying, Well, yeah, but look at all these people who are coming in and look at the opportunity, we have to reach them now with the gospel? So, you know, those ends really do justify the means. I think the problem with that, as you hinted it, is but look, I mean, there's a lot of problems with it. You know, Mark 8:36 is not a rhetorical question, right? Like, what does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet forfeit his soul? But I think for some of these people, some of these leaders, the thing that really grates at me and I know it grates at you, Julie, is like, they're the shepherds, they're the ones who are supposed to know better, because a lot of their flock, you know, and I'm not being condescending or patronizing when I say this, they don't necessarily know better, they are the sheep, right? They need to be shepherded. And instead of shepherding, a lot of these people have just themselves become wolves. And they become wolves for what? So that you can have a seat at the table? So that you can get on Fox News? So that you can raise some money? So that for what ultimately? You're so right, when you press them on it almost to a person, they will acknowledge at some level that what they're doing is kind of gross, and kind of anti-biblical, and then they just keep on doing it. Julie Roys  36:46 So, speak to the person who is listening. And we probably don't have a ton of these. But there may be some who are listening, who have bought this hook, line, and sinker that we do need to take America back. And Franklin Graham told us it's all for the Supreme Court justices, and we got the Supreme Court justices and Roe v. Wade was just overturned and, you know, look at what was accomplished. So, you know, politics is a dirty business, Tim. I mean, come on, if we're gonna win in politics, which, you know, we're talking about babies here, babies are being slaughtered left and right. And then, you know, some of these people would allow a baby to be born alive and kill it. You know, that's who these people are. So, I mean, come on. This is the world we live in, and we've got to fight the way that the world fights. What do you say? TIM ALBERTA  37:35 I'd say a couple of things. I think you can go round and round about Roe v. Wade, and about Trump and about Supreme Court justices. But be careful what you wish for in this space. Because the fact of the matter is that Roe v Wade fell, and the total number of abortions in this country went up. I live in Michigan, where prior to Roe v Wade falling, there were pretty tight abortion restrictions in Michigan. Now, it is the wild west. It is some of the most liberalized abortion laws in the country. And that is true in seven or eight other states that have had ballot initiatives passed since Roe v. Wade, dramatically liberalizing abortion laws, and it's going to happen in a number of other states next year. So, let's be really clear eyed and fact based when we talk about what our political involvement does and what it doesn't do. At the end of the day, if you want to win hearts and minds to stop the scourge of abortion, if you are a Christian, and you view this as your great crusade, then is voting for a candidate or putting a bumper sticker on your car, is that the way to win those hearts and minds? Because the fact is, if American evangelicals had put a fraction of the energy into the social side of abortion, of doing the hard work in the clinics, and helping the single mothers and doing the foster care that is needed to address this at its root, if they had been willing to do that over the last 50 years, my guess is that public opinion would be dramatically different as it pertains to abortion. And we wouldn't even be talking about Roe v. Wade, because the number of abortions would be so low in this country that it wouldn't even register. But we've sort of self-selected into this alternate universe where politicians are our savior, and that politics is the mechanism by which we right the wrongs in this country. And I'm sorry, but if you are citizens of another kingdom?, then you can't possibly believe that. You can't possibly believe that Donald Trump or that any other politician is the person who's going to ultimately right these great moral wrongs. But unfortunately, I think that's the trap we've fallen into. Julie Roys  39:51 You know, I used to be very involved in the prolife movement. I will say, almost all of the people that I knew when I was involved in the pro-life movement, were actually involved in reaching out to single moms and caring for them and caring for their unborn children. But I think what we've forgotten so much is that politics is downstream of culture. So, if you're losing the culture, which we clearly are to change the politics, if you've got a kid that's rebellious, a teenager who's rebellious in your home, locking down all the windows and the doors in your house, that's not going to keep your kid from sinning. What's going to keep your kid from sinning, is if you can winsomely love your child into relationship with Jesus Christ and to want to be like you and to want to adopt your values. But we've forgotten about that, we've become this, you know, Midas right. And I remember in 2016, writing a commentary, The Rise of Trump, The Fall of Evangelicalism, and I said, we may win this one, but we will lose in the long run, if we throw our convictions out the window, and we alienate everyone around us, by our you know, the way that we talk and the way that we relate to people. This is not how you win people to the Lord. That fell on, you know, really deaf ears. It actually lost me some key supporters too. But I just was stunned because I did not know who these people were that I thought believed the same way that I did and had the same values. And then I went, Wow, we are just on different planets, we really don't have that. Julie Roys  41:29 I want to look at one person, again, you have these palate cleansers within all of these sections. And one of them to me is Cal Thomas, who was very much a part of the right and so I can relate to that, because that was I mean, I used to be emceeing the banquet to raise money for you know, the political cause, or whatever it was. I don't do that anymore. Cal Thomas doesn't do that anymore. What changed Cal? TIM ALBERTA  41:58 It's so funny, Julie, because just a minute ago, when you were talking about what are the weapons of our warfare? I was thinking about Cal., because Cal for those who don't know his story, you know, he was Jerry Falwell Senior's lieutenant in the Moral Majority. And he was their spokesman for the Moral Majority. And the vice president of that organization, and, you know, was really heavily involved in the kind of crusading era of the Religious Right, he was a central figure. And then Cal really started to feel uneasy with what he was seeing around him. And he doesn't even sugarcoat it. We have this very raw conversation in the book where he talks about, you know, the corruption and the greed and the grift. And how he just couldn't justify it. He justified it for a while by saying, Well, look how many people we're reaching, and look at all this money coming in. So clearly, you know, God must be doing something here. And then he eventually just gets to a point where he says, No, this is a scam. It's just immoral. And he finally walks away. And then years later, he writes this book called Blinded by Might, where he kind of tries to atone. And he just says, Listen, I was a total believer in winning the culture war to protect Christian America, as you know, part of our duty, you know, to God's kingdom. And in fact, not only has it failed, but it has backfired spectacularly, that we have driven away so many people who need Jesus, but who won't have anything to do with us anymore, They won't even let us in the door to have a conversation because of the way we've treated them because of the way we've treated the culture. So, to your point about locking down the teenager in the house, right? Cal really eloquently and powerfully was giving voice to this when he wrote that book. And then, you know, in our interviews for this book, he's an older guy now he's 80. And he's looking back with such regret on those years and thinking about how did he in some way contribute to laying the groundwork for Trump ism as this kind of sub cult in the evangelical world. And what's most interesting to me from that whole conversation, and I said this to him, is that the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the exact same. I mean, this break that he's describing in the 1980s. And this kind of crisis of conscience that he's feeling is exactly what we're trying to address today. What I'm trying to address in the book now, which is that, listen, it doesn't have to be this way. You have a choice, right? We all have a choice. It was so incredibly unpleasant for me to write this book in a lot of ways, Julie. If I'm being totally honest, I probably couldn't have written it while my dad was still alive. It would have been too hard. Like I've had some people writing me emails this past week saying, oh, like thank you for your courage. Thank you for your brave, I don't feel courageous. I don't feel brave. I feel like a coward in a lot of ways that it took me so long and that a lot of ways took my dad dying and having those experiences at his funeral to finally be willing to acknowledge and use my platform, my relatively high profile journalistically speaking to address this thing that has been so clearly wrong for such a long time. And so, for anybody listening, whether it's in your individual congregation, your faith community, your family, whatever it is like, it doesn't have to be this way. And it takes people like Cal Thomas, kind of blowing up his own life, blowing up his tribal affiliations and walking away. It takes Pastor Brian Zahnd, who I write about in Chapter 15, who had a mega church of 5000 people, and they were making money hand over fist. And then he just woke up one day and had this like epiphany from the Lord that it was all wrong, and that it was so shallow, and it was doing such a disservice to the Gospel. And he blew up his mega church. He's got like 150 people who come every Sunday now and the sanctuary seats like 2000. And he made a choice, right? Cal Thomas made a choice. You've made a choice, Julie. And I just think like, at the end of the day, the people who make that choice and who decide to reckon with what this has become? I don't think they're going to regret it. I really don't. Julie Roys  46:05 I have not regretted it once being free of the whole evangelical industrial complex as it's called, and just being free to follow your conscience without thinking, what are the consequences if I speak the truth publicly? Like what's going to happen to me? Like I see so many Christians just living in fear that if they speak out, or they tell the truth that they know that something, you know, there will be bad consequences for me, and it just makes me wonder, do we believe the gospel, like do we believe the gospel? What gospel are we living on day-to-day basis? And I love Pastor Zahnd's story that was like one of my favorite stories. And it reminded me of the book because I just interviewed Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer and their book pivot, which talks about similar things, other churches that realized church is toxic. It's huge, it's successful, but I feel empty inside, you know, and I feel thin, and they made that pivot. And it may be to smaller church, it may be and it's interesting, though, you were saying how Zahnd's church is now starting to maybe even start to grow and become a little bit healthier. And so, when I hear that I say, it's going to take a while. But in this, you know, these ashes, do you see something growing that's beautiful there that can replace this ugliness that quite frankly, I think I just think it's doomed. I think it's coming down. I don't know that it will come down quickly. This complex that we've built, but I think it will come down eventually. It may take decades. But I think there will be a Christianity I hope this was my prayer that replaces it. And it's more organic and more Grassroots less big leadership and more the Body of Christ. TIM ALBERTA  47:48 Yes,  I do see something rising from the ashes. I can sense it, particularly among the younger generation. One of the things that consistently surprised me in all of my reporting, and it was a pleasant surprise, to be clear, was spending time with younger believers. They ideologically, culturally, politically, like they're really no different from their parents, like they check those boxes on paper. But then you kind of get into some of this with them. And they want nothing to do with Trumpism. They want nothing to do with Charlie Kirk, and I'm talking about like the serious believers. I'm not talking about like the very casual kids who identify as Christian, but then go to a Turning Point USA event. I mean, like, you spend time around Liberty, and like, yes, there are some MAGA kids at Liberty. But most of the kids you spend time with  at Liberty, including those who would self-identify as like, sure I guess on paper, I would be a Republican, because of abortion because of other issues, they will really eloquently and gracefully speak to these schisms. And they're so perceptive. I think that's the big thing, Julie, is that they can see it. Right? My generation, I kind of think of us as like the children of the Moral Majority. And we can now very clearly diagnose this in a way that my dad's generation probably couldn't, they were too close to it. They were too wrapped up in it. And I think, you know, in some ways, they almost I kind of tend to maybe just give them a little bit of a pass for that because they didn't have the appropriate distance to really assess it and analyze it in the way that I think I'm able to, and certainly in the way that the generations behind me are able to. They see what this is doing to the church, and they are saying no, thank you. Even at my home church, the guy who took over for my dad, almost run out of the place. He came very close to just quitting because it got so bad for him because he hears this young guy taking over this, this mega church congregation in a very conservative Republican community. And he's not particularly a conservative Republican. He's not like some big Democrat either. He's just a guy who like loves Jesus and who processes news events through the eyes of like the gospel, right? What's so interesting is that he lost a ton of his congregation. And then this past summer, I went back for the first time since my dad's funeral, and the place was packed, and I didn't recognize anybody there. And he comes out and gives this sort of fire and brimstone sermon, challenging them on the culture wars, challenging them on like, where are your priorities, really? What kingdom do you really belong to? And so that actually, I didn't aim to end the book on that optimistic note, but I was so encouraged by it, because it makes me think that in this market of supply and demand that you and I have talked about, and mostly we focused on the perverted nature of the supply and demand, that there is also maybe more demand out there than we realize for that true, pure form of the gospel. And so that is my hope, moving forward, and particularly with these younger Christians, who will demand something better than what we've seen so far. Julie Roys  50:53 I loved that I don't often read the epilogue, but in your book I did. And that was beautiful to read about Pastor Winans and the way that, you know, you kind of left them in the early chapters really disillusioned and discouraged. And then he comes back invigorated for the gospel, and preaching it so boldly and that really, pastors like that give me hope. And I know that there's probably a lot more of them than I encounter in you know, the line of work that I do, which usually means I hear about the worst of the worst all the time. Julie Roys  51:28 Let me just ask you about this most of your chapters are about political power and about the way that these kingdoms  and the power has sort of become an idolatrous thing. And then you turn your eye to corruption going on in the church and the abuse, the abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention, how that's been addressed recently, how Rachel den Hollander stood up to it and she went, you know, most people I'm sure listening know Rachel's story. But you know, one of the first gymnasts who came forward and told her story about Larry Nasser, and how he had abused so much of the, you know, US Olympic gymnasts team. And she went from being just Joan of Arc, I think you call it to being Jezebel, right? Or from Esther to Jezebel, because she spoke out about the evil in the church. And that's what I found. When I was at Moody Radio I was allowed to speak about Joel Osteen, right? Or I was allowed to speak about the liberals in politics. But when I turned my critique on our own tribe, man, I would get shut down, you know. That's one of the reasons I left Moody besides the others that I talked about. I couldn't speak out about the evil in our own house. And I feel that at this point, we have no moral platform as Christians to be speaking about the evil out in the world anymore, until we deal with the evil in our own house and the way that it's crept in. You know, judgment begins with the house of God. He doesn't expect, you know, the people who don't know him, to act any differently than they're acting, but He expects us to, and we're not. So, I appreciated that you put this chapter in the book, dealing with some of the abuse and the corruption within the church. But you could have easily left it out and just talked about the way that politics has, you know, really usurped the gospel. Why did you put this chapter in? TIM ALBERTA  53:28 One of the things that really bugs me, is how the New Testament model here and you were just alluding to this a moment ago. The New Testament model is not ambiguous. We are to treat outsiders with unlimited grace and kindness and compassion and forgiveness, because they don't know God, and they don't know any better. That is clear. And what is also clear is that we are to treat the insiders with the utmost accountability, and they are to be held to the highest standard because they do know God, and they do know better. That is the New Testament model. And we in the American church have completely flipped it. We have nothing but hostility, and animus and enmity towards the outside world. And we practice nothing but grace and forgiveness and cheap grace and cheap forgiveness inside the church. Right? And it drives me a little bit nuts. Because if you are the person out there in the world, who is sort of curious about Jesus, and you feel something missing in your life, what are the odds today that you're going to go to a local church and try to learn a little bit more? I mean, you know, you might say, Well, some people will, some people do Sure. But the statistics here don't lie, Julie. Like when you look back 30 or 40 years, the perception of the church among unbelievers in this country was incredibly positive. People who did not know Jesus looked at the church as a beacon of moral rectitude, of compassion, of social good. Even if they were never going to sit in the pews with us, even if they didn't believe any of the doctrine, they respected the church and they admire the church. And that has completely changed. It's just completely fallen apart. There are some people who will tell you like Robert Jeffers and I go back and forth on this in the book, he said, Well, that it doesn't matter, right? Those people aren't looking for the Lord. I completely disagree. I think the credibility of the church matters enormously. TIM ALBERTA  55:37 To your question of why did I feel compelled to include that chapter? Well, who's going to hold the church accountable? Is the church going to hold itself accountable? No, I mean, typically, institutions are not very good at self-policing. We know that from working in journalism, right? By the way, the media is not very good at self-policing. Actually, I could argue the media is terrible at self-policing. I mean, any big institution, it can't be expected to hold itself accountable. Okay, so what are the mechanisms for accountability here? If we care about the Bride of Christ, if we care about the credibility of the church, if we care about how the outside world perceives the church, which I think matters enormously, then what do we do to ensure that the church is on the up and up and is doing its duty before God and it's carrying out its purpose and its mission? You know, journalism has to play a role in that. I think, you know, the law has to play a role in that. I think that there are external forces, even, you know, gasp secular forces that have to play a role in that, because otherwise, we just leave these churches, these pastors to their own devices. And I'm sorry, but you don't need to read any other source then the Bible itself. You pick up the Bible itself, read from Old Testament to new and see how well that works out. We see it time and again. I there are not accountability structures in place, then things go very badly, very quickly. And so that's a long answer to your question. Julie Roys  57:06 Hmm. Well, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your book. And I know you're getting interviews all over the country. I saw you on CBS, Good Morning America; that was so exciting to see but really wonderful that you've gotten this platform to winsomely speak to the rest of society who I remember a couple of times, I got to be on NPR. They would ask me about evangelicalism, and they are always amazed, I think that I could even string two sentences together. And I was actually an evangelical right? But I am so thrilled that you are representing evangelicals because you're a face that and I don't know, do you still identify as Evangelical? TIM ALBERTA  57:49 not really, I don't fight the label, but I would not volunteer it for myself just because of exactly what we just described, you know. Somebody outside the church hears it, and they quickly shut down the conversation, because they don't really want anything to do with you. Julie Roys  58:01 I don't know if I would take that term, either. I'm kind of where you are, as well. But you're a Christian, and you love Jesus. And even when I heard you in that one interview recently said, How's your faith? and you're like, it's as strong as it's ever been. I thank you for that and for your witness, and for this book, and for giving me so much of your time. I really appreciate it. So, thank you, TIM ALBERTA  58:21 Thank you for all that you're doing. And thank you for saying that. It's very kind of you. We're ultimately playing some small part here in trying to get this thing back on track and doing it as humbly as possible. I hope that we can make a difference. Thank you for having me on. And I know that we'll continue to talk. Julie Roys  58:39 Absolutely. And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I'm Julie Roys. And just a quick reminder, if you'd like a copy of Tim Alberta's book, The Kingdome, The Power, and The Glory, we'd be happy to send you one for a gift of $50 or more to The Roys Report this month. Again, we don't have any large donors or advertising, we simply have you, the people who care about exposing evil and restoring the church. So, if you'd like to support our work and get Tim's book, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, I want to let you know that next week, I'll be releasing another talk from the RESTORE conference. This one is by veteran church planter Lance Ford, who gave an amazing talk on the Christian addiction to leadership and why it's so toxic. I love this talk and I think you will too. So be watching for that. We'll release the talk as both an audio podcast and as a video at my YouTube channel. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, I'd really appreciate it if you'd help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media. So, more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

Seriah is joined by Barbara Fisher and Wren Collier for some fascinating discussion. Topics include liminality, empty shopping malls, the UAP disclosure movement, the Grusch hearings, Peter Levenda, the “Aviary”, the Collins Elite, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis vs aliens as spirits, fundamentalist Christian eschatology, Dominionism, the danger of future religious persecution, the book “Final Events” by Nick Redfern, Reverend Ray Boeche, USAF Captain Robert Collins, Dan T. Smith AKA “Chicken Little”, Los Alamos, U.S. government remote viewing programs, indoctrination of the military, Christian nationalism, Robert Manners, Project Blue Beam, mass deception, end-time prophecies and the return of Christ, Whitley Strieber and the Djinn, John Keel as demonologist, personal experiences with the occult, the Michael Douglas film “Falling Down”, psy research and weather, Michael “Doc Future” Bennett, ritual magic experiments by the CIA, Jack Parsons, L. Ron Hubbard, Kenneth Grant, the Trinity atomic bomb test, James Merrill's “The Changing Light at Sandover” book, William H. Burroughs, the spiritual dangers of nuclear weapons and energy, nuclear war on ancient Mars, Jacques Vallee's “Passport to Magonia”, ether ships, outer space as the land of the dead, nuclear testing, cattle mutilations, a wave of killing of pets, the David McGowan book “Programmed to Kill”, a kernel of truth to the Satanic panic, hypnotic regression and false memories, Henry Lee Lucas and the Hand of Death cult, Wayne Williams and the Atlanta child murders and a CIA-related training facility, serial killers and self-deception, the West Memphis Three, the psychological benefits of harsh music, the Columbine mass shooting and unanswered questions, the Oklahoma City bombing and “John Doe #2” and other mysteries, Ozzy Osbourne's “Suicide Solution” and it's mis-interpretation, films that could not be made today, the Julie Saunder's podcast “Believer”, Jaime Maussan's repeated fake aliens in Mexico, pro wrestling, the 1990's alien autopsy video, Roswell as experiments on disabled children, Stephen Chow's “Forbidden City Cop” movie, crypto currency, the screaming alien hoax, Joseph Matheny and John Titor, ARGs, the Djinn and smokeless fire, Islamic lore, Airial spirits, Hal Puthoff, a bizarre Djinn/MIB experience in 1970's Iran, and much more! This is riveting material!KeThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4656375/advertisement

Seriah is joined by Barbara Fisher and Wren Collier for some fascinating discussion. Topics include liminality, empty shopping malls, the UAP disclosure movement, the Grusch hearings, Peter Levenda, the “Aviary”, the Collins Elite, the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis vs aliens as spirits, fundamentalist Christian eschatology, Dominionism, the danger of future religious persecution, the book “Final Events” by Nick Redfern, Reverend Ray Boeche, USAF Captain Robert Collins, Dan T. Smith AKA “Chicken Little”, Los Alamos, U.S. government remote viewing programs, indoctrination of the military, Christian nationalism, Robert Manners, Project Blue Beam, mass deception, end-time prophecies and the return of Christ, Whitley Strieber and the Djinn, John Keel as demonologist, personal experiences with the occult, the Michael Douglas film “Falling Down”, psy research and weather, Michael “Doc Future” Bennett, ritual magic experiments by the CIA, Jack Parsons, L. Ron Hubbard, Kenneth Grant, the Trinity atomic bomb test, James Merrill's “The Changing Light at Sandover” book, William H. Burroughs, the spiritual dangers of nuclear weapons and energy, nuclear war on ancient Mars, Jacques Vallee's “Passport to Magonia”, ether ships, outer space as the land of the dead, nuclear testing, cattle mutilations, a wave of killing of pets, the David McGowan book “Programmed to Kill”, a kernel of truth to the Satanic panic, hypnotic regression and false memories, Henry Lee Lucas and the Hand of Death cult, Wayne Williams and the Atlanta child murders and a CIA-related training facility, serial killers and self-deception, the West Memphis Three, the psychological benefits of harsh music, the Columbine mass shooting and unanswered questions, the Oklahoma City bombing and “John Doe #2” and other mysteries, Ozzy Osbourne's “Suicide Solution” and it's mis-interpretation, films that could not be made today, the Julie Saunder's podcast “Believer”, Jaime Maussan's repeated fake aliens in Mexico, pro wrestling, the 1990's alien autopsy video, Roswell as experiments on disabled children, Stephen Chow's “Forbidden City Cop” movie, crypto currency, the screaming alien hoax, Joseph Matheny and John Titor, ARGs, the Djinn and smokeless fire, Islamic lore, Airial spirits, Hal Puthoff, a bizarre Djinn/MIB experience in 1970's Iran, and much more! This is riveting material! - Recap by Vincent Treewell of The Weird Part Podcast Outro Music is Psyche Corporation with Pound of Flesh Download

Various Christian religious orders in Texas have begun to merge in worrisome ways: in particular, the growing political goals of the "prosperity gospel" movement have found common cause among those following the "Seven Mountains Mandate" philosophy - one that calls for Christians to take over essentially all aspects of our lives. Diving deep into all of this has been our friend, investigative reporter Steven Monacelli, who has recently published two reports on all of this for the Texas Observer - what he reveals is unsurprising in some ways, but also troubling in the growing organization and influence these religious movements are gaining not only in Texas, but nationwide. Find all of Steven Monacelli's work for the Texas Observer at https://www.texasobserver.org/author/steven-monacelli/. Thanks for listening! If you've become a regular, please consider joining forces with Progress Texas via our ongoing member drive! Learn more at https://progresstexas.org/donate.

Valerie Hobbs, a linguist at the University of Sheffield, talks with Word&Way President Brian Kaylor about her new book No Love in War: A Story of Christian Nationalism (video trailer here). She also discusses Dominionism, patriarchy, violence, and reading the Bible.  Note: Don't forget to subscribe to our award-winning e-newsletter A Public Witness that helps you make sense of faith, culture, and politics.

Returning champion Elliot AKA Secular Rarity returns to participate in a round table discussion on Christian Dominionism. Why do we not take this more seriously? Wherevis America going? Will this Christian age be good for the US on the world stage?listen in and find outHelen does a top 10 of banned songsand Troy talks about gypsies...

If you are a regular listener / viewer of our podcast, you've undoubtedly heard of the term Christian Nationalism. For better or for worse, most of the commentary provided on this show has painted this religious ideology as something negative. However, as we commonly do, on Faithful Politics, we wanted to present a counter argument to the Christian Nationalism debate, so we decided to talk with the person who literally wrote the book on building a case for Christian Nationalism, Stephen Wolfe. In The Case for Christian Nationalism, Stephen Wolfe offers a tour-de-force argument for the good of Christian nationalism, taken from Scripture and Christian thinkers ancient, medieval, and modern. We asked him a wide range of questions ranging from the role of Christian Nationalism in the January 6th riots to how civil and social customs would look under a Christian Nation. We then talk about modern theonomy and what connections Christian Nationalism has with Dominionism and/or the seven mountain mandate. There were many more topics we covered to include explanations about several passages in his book. This cordial and friendly interview was definitely informative and we appreciated the conversation and hope you will too. Guest bio:Stephen Wolfe (PhD, Louisiana State University) is a country scholar at Wolfeshire in central North Carolina where he lives with his wife and four children. He recently finished a postdoctoral fellowship at Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. Wolfe is co-host of the Ars Politica podcast and has written for Mere Orthodoxy, First Things, Chronicles Magazine, and History of Political Thought. The Case for Christian Nationalism is his first book.Support the showTo learn more about the show, contact our hosts, or recommend future guests, click on the links below: Website: https://www.faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/ Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Political Host: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Twitter: @FaithfulPolitik Instagram: faithful_politics Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast LinkedIn: faithfulpolitics

In Episode 310 of the Influence Podcast, I talked with Dr. Allen Tennison about the New Apostolic Reformation. We focused on describing the four distinctive theological doctrines and practices of that movement. In this episode, we are going to take a more critical look at those doctrines and practices. The central claim of the New Apostolic Reformation is that the contemporary church needs to be led by apostles and prophets. Other doctrines and practices are associated with the movement, but that seems to be what really drives the movement. As classical Pentecostals, Dr. Tennison and I have a perspective on these NAR claims, which we want to share with you. I'm George P. Wood, executive editor of Influence magazine and your host. Dr. Allen Tennison is dean of the College of Church Leadership and professor of theology at North Central University in Minneapolis, Minnesota. An Assemblies of God minister, he also chairs the AG's Commission on Doctrines and Practices. ----- This episode of the Influence Podcast is brought to you by My Healthy Church, distributors of MEGA Sports Camp. MEGA Sports Camp is a unique VBS that makes it easy to reach new families, engage new volunteers, and reach unchurched kids in your community. This year kids at your MEGA Sports Camp VBS will discover they can have a positive influence on others because their confidence comes from God. For more information about MEGA Sports Camp VBS, visit MEGASportsCamp.com.

Must the contemporary church be led by apostles and prophets? Advocates of the so-called New Apostolic Reformation answer that question with a hearty yes. Others, including classical Pentecostals, aren't so sure. The idea that churches must be led by apostles and prophets isn't the only controversial teaching associated with the New Apostolic Reformation. Others include strategic-level spiritual warfare, ordinary believers as a miracle-workers, and Christian dominion in society. In this episode of the Influence Podcast, I talk with Dr. Allen Tennison about what the New Apostolic Reformation is and how classical Pentecostals should assess it. I'm George P. Wood, executive editor of Influence magazine and your host. Dr. Allen Tennison is dean of the College of Church Leadership and professor of theology at North Central University in Minneapolis, Minnesota. An Assemblies of God minister, he also chairs the AG's Commission on Doctrines and Practices. ----- This episode of the Influence Podcast is brought to you by My Healthy Church, distributors of MEGA Sports Camp. MEGA Sports Camp is a unique VBS that makes it easy to reach new families, engage new volunteers, and reach unchurched kids in your community. This year kids at your MEGA Sports Camp VBS will discover they can have a positive influence on others because their confidence comes from God. For more information about MEGA Sports Camp VBS, visit MEGASportsCamp.com.

Dr Clint Heacock, host of the Mindshift podcast, drops by to join our crew and talk about what we think could be behind the ressurgence of christian dominionism in north america: project Blitzwhat's the end goal?how do we deal with it?blitzwatch.orgpoliticalresearch.orgDawn talks about a possible mysterious Godzilla eggTroy gives us anothe fascinating myth person St-Mary of Egyptand Brently talks about an African Jesus in need of police protection

University of Idaho quadruple murders, Moscow, Idaho, official narrative, JJ's involvement with the case, Smiley Face killers, Smiley Face copycat, links Smiley Face hoax has to quadruple homicide via frats/sororities, Bryan Kohlberger, Kohlberger compared to Israel Keyes, problem with comparison, twilight/green language, 1122 Kings Rd, JFK assassination, role of Greek frats/sororities in the community, "Greek community's" links to organized crime, criminal activity at the sorority where murder occurred, dog killed and skinned shortly before murders, Moscow PD's botched investigation, the Pleiades' Club, Christ Church, Douglas Wilson, Dominionism, Church' attempt to take over Moscow, Council for National Policy, Prince/DeVos family, Sam Bankman-Fried, FTX collapse, timing of collapse n relation to murders, Moonstone Bank, Washington State University, closeness of bank to WSU and University of Idaho, Moonstone's collapse, Moonstone's ties to FTX, cryptocurrency, FTX links to Joe Biden/Democratic Party, far right groups near Kohlberer family home, Sovereign Order of Saint John, Gulen movement, Sean Moon, Pennsylvania, geological intrigues at play, neo-liberal vs far right, comparisons to OJ investigation First music break: IntroSecond Music break (23:00): the mysteries of MoscowThird Music Break (1:17:00): FTX intrigues Music by: Keith Allen Dennishttps://keithallendennis.bandcamp.com/Additional Music by: Corwin Trailshttps://corwintrails.bandcamp.com/ Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jerusalem priesthood, North Kingdom, Judea, Judges, Nergal, hidden Nergal worship in priesthood, human sacrifice, Rephaim, Sumer, Indo-Europeans, Mannerbund, Koryos, Sparta, state terrorism, Temple Mound, rebuilding the Temple, the Third Temple, Reconstructionism, Dominionism, Exodus, Exodus in different traditions, Abraham, Moses, Abrahamic vs Mosaic tradition, divine right of kings, Solomon, David, Saul, sorcery, concept of a personal messiah, divine ordained genocide, St. Paul, Pauline Christianity, Nergal in Pauline Christianity, warring priesthoods, Apollo, bards, bard gods, Sadducees, survival of Sadducees, views of Sadducees on ChristianityMusic by: Keith Allen Dennishttps://keithallendennis.bandcamp.com/ Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sam talks to Dr. Sarah Riccardi-Swartz, assistant professor of religion and anthropology at Northeastern University about Christian Dominionism, rising antisemitism and the fascist movement's continued momentum. Follow her on Twitter at @riccardiswartz and visit her site at riccardiswartz.com Refuse Fascism is more than a podcast! You can get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter and other social platforms including the newest addition: mastodon.world/@refusefascism Thank you to everyone who has given in recent days! All donors at the $35 or above will get a warm Refuse Fascism beanie + one for a good friend (or you can gift both!). Be sure to include your mailing address when donating so we can ship them to you in time for holiday giving. Send your comments to samanthagoldman@refusefascism.org or @SamBGoldman. Connect with the movement at RefuseFascism.org and support: · Venmo: @RefuseFascism · Cashapp: $RefuseFascism · paypal.me/refusefascism · donate.refusefascism.org Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/refuse-fascism/message

This is a conversation with Matthew Lyons, antifascist researcher, contributor to Three Way Fight Blog and author of, among other books, Insurgent Supremacists: The U.S. Far Right's Challenge to State and Empire and contributor to the recent AK Press compilation, No Pasarán: Antifascist Dispatches from a World in Crisis (edited by Shane Burley). For the hour, Matthew talks about Christian Nationalist and theonomic tendencies and movements like New Apostolic Reformation, Dominionism, reactionary Catholicism and Christian Reconstructionism to learn more about how they interrelate or conflict with other far right tendencies in the so-called USA and the ongoing assault on bodily autonomy, abortion access and cis-hetero-patriarchy. More of Matthews work can be found at MatthewNLyons.Net Transcript PDF (Unimposed) Zine (Imposed PDF) https://traffic.libsyn.com/thefinalstrawradio/tfsrpodcast20221120-MatthewNLyons.mp3 Next Week… We're hoping to bring you voices from graduate student workers and other workers on strike in the University of California system and possibly beyond for this coming Sunday's show. Announcements Phone Zap for Shinewhite BACKGROUND: Joseph “Shine White” Stewart is a long-time incarcerated writer and organizer who is known, among other things, for promoting interracial unity among black and white prisoners in North Carolina as a way to forward their shared resistance against the prison industrial complex and for encouraging abolitionists on the outside to center prisoners' demands and resistance in their work.  He has most recently been central to prisoners' organizing efforts to combat racist CO brutality at Alexander Correctional Institution and the extended lockdown at Bertie Correctional Institution.  As one might imagine, he is no stranger to political repression, and he has been repeatedly transferred, held in solitary confinement for years at a time, and physically brutalized as the system has attempted to silence him.  On November 3, in response to his most recent organizing, Shine White was transferred to Granville Correctional Institution in Butner, NC, where he was placed in restrictive housing.  When he arrived, he was placed in a filthy, unsanitary cell which staff refused to allow him to clean and denied access to his property, including legal paperwork related to pending motions in a lawsuit his is pursuing which he was therefore unable to put in the mail on time.  Staff have even restricted his access to paper.  As of his last contact with Solidarity Beyond the Walls, Shine White is still being housed in unsanitary conditions and still does not have his property.  He has requested that SBW support him by organizing a phone zap on his behalf. NCDPS Division of Prisons Central Region Director Loris Sutton 919-582-6125 (direct office line) OR 919-803-0713 (cell phone) OR 919-838-4053 (Central Region main office line); Standard and Performance Director Cynthia Thornton 919-838-4000 (Division of prisons main office line) Remember that repeat calls are welcome, as the more calls come in, the more likely it is that our demands on Shine White's behalf will be met. WHAT TO SAY: Here is a script you can use if you aren't sure what to say when you call:“Hello.  I am calling on behalf of Joseph Stewart, OPUS number 0802041.  When he was transferred to Granville CI on November 3, Mr. Stewart was placed in restrictive housing in unsanitary conditions and denied his property, including legal paperwork that needed to be put in the mail no later than November 4.  Both of these are violations of NCDPS policy and procedure.  I am calling to demand that Mr. Stewart be released from restrictive housing, be placed in a clean cell with access to supplies to keep it that way, and that all of his property be returned immediately.” Support Colombian Uprising Prisoners There is still repression being felt by those swept up by the state during the 2021 National Strike in Cali, Colombia and there's a fundraising effort for the Paso del Aguante 6 who are facing up to 50 years in prison for participating in the strike. The Colombia Freedom Collective is happy to announce that Christian Andres Aguilar has been released at 14 months of pre-trail detention, though he's not out of danger yet. You can learn more about the cases of the Paso del Aguante 6 and how to support their defense efforts at: https://colombiafreedomcollective.org/christian-andres-aguilar-released-after-14-months-of-pretrial-detention/ Bad News #62 Check out the latest episode of Bad News: Angry Voices from Around The World from the International A-Radio Network. This month features two really good interviews you may not have heard from Frequenz-A: a chat with a member of Feminist Anti-War Resistance, a movement against the militarism of the Russian state and the war in Ukraine; a conversation with Berlin-based advocates for Alfredo Cospito, Juan, Anna and Ivan hunger striking in Italy against 41 bis. These are alongside shorter versions of our recent chats on heaters in Albuquerque, updates on Eric King and Oso Blanco's situations and the struggle against Camp Grayling. Suppport TFSR We are entering a period of recording fury. Patreon supporters will get early access to interviews as we get them edited down, as well as behind the scenes conversations between the producers. Upcoming releases include Mitchell Verter, co-author of the 2005 AK Press book, Dreams of Freedom: A Ricardo Flores Magón Reader speaking around the 100th anniversary of the murder by incarceration by the US state of the Mexican anarchist communist revolutionary, RFM, and discussion of his legacy. Another is a conversation with Rhiannon Firth on her recently published book, Disaster Anarchy: Mutual Aid and Radical Action, out from Pluto Press. You can find our patreon at patreon.com/tfsr Though we're releasing some content early to patreon supporters, we won't be paywalling it permanently. Our fundraising goes to operating costs, equipment, and paying our transcribers. We've been transcribing each interview we've conducted and making them available as zines on our website for coming up on 2 years now, and going back to transcribe past episodes to boot. This makes these important conversations available for translation, for easier access to folks who are more comfortable reading or for whom English is a second language, as well as getting the content more easily into prisoners, reading groups and passers-by's hands so as to include more people in the discussion. For other ways to support our project monetarily, there's merch and donation options at tfsr.wtf/support. For non-money support, we could always use ratings on apple, google and amazon podcasts or mentions and boosts on social media (including on Mastodon and Castopod), examples can be found at tfsr.wtf. Telling others about the project is also a great way to help us expand our audience. If you have a story you'd like covered, you can find ways to contact us there we well! Finally, if you have a community or college radio station that you'd like to hear our weekly, free, 58 minute episode air on for any weirdo with an antenna and receiver to pick up, help us out by visiting tfsr.wtf/radio to learn more. Thanks for the support! . ... . .. Featured Tracks: Gods and Government by Snog from Dear Valued Customer The Voice of God Is Government by Bad Religion from How Could Hell Be Any Worse? Brazil by Django Reinhardt from Django in Rome

Weekly Wisdom and Wonderings: We discuss the importance of developing trust as a leader.Main Topic: Theonomy suggests that the Mosaic law gives us a model for contemporary civil government. Does this align with Scripture? Why is Theonomy problematic? What should Christians do instead?

Theonomy, Dominionism, and Calvinist Reconstructionism are all different names for the same idea: that the world would be better off it it operated according to a Christian Theocracy. In this episode Rob tackles the ideas of one of the more sober and influential theorists of this perspective, Gregory Bahnsen. Are ethics based on reason rather than belief in God's law necessarily arbitrary? Did Jesus call on Christians to follow the whole of the Law or only some of the laws? And should Christians make non-Christian follow their laws?

Returning guest Dr André Gagné from Concordia University in Montreal, Canada, is an expert on the field of dominion theology, the New Apostolic Reformation, the Christian Right and what's going on in Trump world. Thus: what better thing to do than to reach out to him after a few years to catch up on what's going on in that universe? The good news is that André's book on the evangelicals behind Trump will be soon translated into English--and I'm sensing another episode coming up! Will the evangelicals promoting Trump's "Big Lie" go away anytime soon? What's their strategy for taking dominion? Find out the answers to those questions and more in this fascinating, if chilling, conversation. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Contact Information Follow André on Twitter @Andre_Gagne1 Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018

Returning guest Dr André Gagné from Concordia University in Montreal, Canada, is an expert on the field of dominion theology, the New Apostolic Reformation, the Christian Right and what's going on in Trump world. Thus: what better thing to do ... Read More »

We discuss two major pages in the Left's playbook: accusing true believers of 'Christian Nationalism' in order to silence us, and propagating lies about the Cvd jab even though stats and truth are being exposed; misinformation, and how believers must pray, vote, and speak while we still can! Daily podcast, relevant articles on issues pertaining to Christians and more can be found on Stand Up For The Truth.

The New Apostolic Reformation is a Christian movement that most people have never heard of, but it has an out-sized influence in American, and even global, politics and culture. Bruce Wilson has been researching and writing about religion and its influence on politics and culture for decades, and Jennifer Cohn has been working to document threats to democracy and election integrity. They join Dave to discuss the NAR, what it is, where it came from, and the risks it may pose to pluralistic democracy. Read more: Underreported And Massive Theocratic Movement Joins Forces With Michael Flynn And Roger Stone by Jenny Cohn Fighting Demons, Raising The Dead, Taking Over The World by Bruce Wilson Twitter: @brucewilson @jennycohn1 Keywords: New Apostolic Reformation, NAR, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Christian, right, libertarian, libertarianism, WCF, World Congress of Families, Peter Wagner, Lance Wellnau, Lauren Boebert, Jim Garlow, John Eastman, Seven Mountains, Dominionism, apostolic governance.

We address the state of the American church and theologies to avoid; discuss signs of the times including an emboldened and demonic government, agendas of the WEC and global elites, takeaways from Jan's recent conferences and UTT guests, and how the left seems to be pulling out all the stops - openly pushing godless, anti-American agendas.  Daily podcast, relevant articles on issues pertaining to Christians and more can be found on Stand Up For The Truth.

The US Extreme Court, formerly known as Supreme, has decimated some of the principles upon which this nation was founded. Today, we focus on the illegitimate three (and their three accomplices) who have, with some of their recent rulings, decimated the separation of church and state and with it the First Amendment's Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. The Establishment clause prohibits the government from "establishing" a religion. The Free Exercise Clause protects citizens' right to practice their religion as they please, so long as the practice does not run afoul of a "public morals" or a "compelling" governmental interest. They did this in two cases announced in the last two weeks: one that said a high school football coach did not run afoul of the constitution when he had players gather on the 50-yard line after games for a Christian prayer, and another saying that the state of Maine must pay for religious schools if no public school is available in the district where a student lives. As horrible as all of that is, it doesn't include the dangerous sect of Christianity that' positioning itself to impose their religious dogma on the rest of us. It's not just Christianity, but Dominionism and New Apostolic Reformation that's invading every sector of government, as is their plan. Frederick Clarkson wrote about this trend and the Republican nominee for Governor of Pennsylvania, Doug Mastriano, who takes this religious perversion to new extremes. And, oh yeah, another mass shooting at a 4th of July parade in Highland Park, IL yesterday, killing six and injuring dozens... Welcome to the new Gilead of America...

Frederick Clarkson is one of the foremost experts on Christian Dominionism in the United States (“Dominionism” is the theocratic idea that Christians are called by God to exercise dominion over every aspect of society by taking control of political and cultural institutions). Fred is a journalist and the author of the classic "Eternal Hostility: The Struggle Between Theocracy and Democracy." He broke the story of Project Blitz, a coalition of conservative Christian groups working to enact Dominionist legislation in state & local legislatures across the U.S., and helped set up BlitzWatch.org to monitor, track, and defeat attempts by Christian Nationalists to implement their distorted view of religious freedom. In this interview, we talk about the contemporary politics of Dominionism. We talk about how we got here and why Dominionists are exerting so much power and influence in public life. Learn more about Dr. Steven Hassan's work and find more resources at his website FreedomOfMind.com. Follow Dr. Hassan on Twitter here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices