Podcast appearances and mentions of Charlie Sykes

Guest host Jonathan Alter convenes Peter Baker, Molly Jong-Fast, and Charlie Sykes to talk through Trump's latest lunge for unchecked power. The quartet dig into the week's flurry of controversial firings and the prospects for a long-promised, now long-overdue peace deal in Ukraine. They then put Trump's mafioso tactics under a microscope, investigating why they've worked so well, and what everyone can do to resist them.Mentioned in this episode:Jonathan's Substack: https://oldgoats.substack.com/Peter's reporting: https://www.nytimes.com/by/peter-baker#latestMolly's podcast: https://fastpoliticspod.com/Charlie's Substack: https://charliesykes.substack.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen to Zooming In at The UnPopulist in your favorite podcast app: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | RSS | YouTubeLandry Ayres: Welcome back to Zooming In at The UnPopulist. I'm Landry Ayres.We find ourselves in a deeply troubling moment for American democracy, grappling with the stark realities of a political landscape increasingly defined by fear, performative cruelty, and a conscious assault on established norms and institutions.This special live recording from ISMA's “Liberalism for the 21st Century” conference features host Aaron Ross Powell, as well as longtime observer of the militarization of police and author of the Substack, The Watch, Radley Balko, and co-founder and former contributor of The Bulwark, Charlie Sykes, author now of the Substack To the Contrary. They explore the mechanisms of this assault, how a manufactured crisis of fear is being weaponized by law enforcement, and the profound implications for civil liberties and the rule of law in America.The discussion is insightful, if unsettling.A transcript of today's podcast appears below. It has been edited for flow and clarity.Aaron Ross Powell: Welcome to a special live recording of The UnPopulist's Zooming In podcast here at the “Liberalism for the 21st Century” conference in Washington, D.C. I am Aaron Powell and I'm delighted to be joined by Radley Balko and Charlie Sykes to talk about the situation we find ourselves in.To me, the most striking image of Trump's campaign, months before he was reelected, was from the RNC. Before that, there was the weird one of him in the construction vest. But the most terrifying image was the one depicting the “Mass Deportation Now!” signs and the sneering and cruel faces celebrating the culture that they were wallowing in. Those faces made me think, as I was looking at them, of the faces in photographs during the Civil Rights Movement of police officers about to inflict violence, turn on firehoses, let dogs loose, and so on. And it felt like what we are seeing now.The “Mass Deportation Now!” images characterize not just the policies of Trump 2.0, but the attitude that they're trying to inflict upon the country. It feels like a rolling back of what we achieved in the 1960s from the Civil Rights Movement—it feels like we're in a retreat from that. This is a conscious attempt to roll that back. So I wanted to talk about that.Radley, I'll start with you. We're sitting in D.C. right now as National Guard troops and members of all sorts of agencies are patrolling the streets. Is this surprising to you—the pace at which these nominally public servants, who are supposed to serve and protect, have embraced this role of violence and fear and chaos?Radley Balko: I'm surprised at how quickly it's happened. I've been talking to people about this day for the last 20 years. I've been warning about the gradual militarization of our police, which is something that has happened in conjunction with the drug war and then the war on terror over 40 or 50 years.That debate was always about, “How militarized should our police be? How do we balance safety, and giving police officers what they need to protect public safety, with civil liberties and constitutional rights?” The fear was always that another Sept. 11 type event would cause what we're seeing now—that there would be a threat, a threat that everybody acknowledges as a threat, that would cause an administration, states, mayors, to crack down on civil liberties. But it would at least be a threat that everyone recognizes as a threat. We would be debating about how to react to it.When it comes to what's playing out today, there's no threat. This is all manufactured. This is all made up.Your juxtaposition of those two images—the clownish image of Trump in the construction vest and the other one depicting this genuinely terrifying anger and glee a lot of his followers get from watching grandmothers be raided and handcuffed and dragged out of their homes—show the clownishness and incompetence of this administration juxtaposed with the actual threat and danger, the hate and vitriol, that we see from his followers.We always hear that story about Ben Franklin after the Constitutional Convention: a woman comes up to him and says, “So, what is it, Mr. Franklin, do we have a republic or a monarchy?” And he says, “A republic, if you can keep it.” That phrase, of course, has been echoed throughout the ages. If Franklin were alive today, he would say, “You know, when I said that, I was worried about a Caracalla or a Sulla or a Caesar.” Instead it's like, this guy, the guy that has to win every handshake, that's who you're going to roll over for?I saw a lot of libertarian-ish people making this point before the election—that Trump's not a threat, he's a clown, he's incompetent, he's not dangerous. And you know what? He may be incompetent, but he's put people around him this time who do know what they're doing and who are genuinely evil.So, on some level, this was the worst case scenario that I never really articulated over the years when I've talked about police militarization. This is actual military acting as police, not police acting as the military. But here we are and they're threatening to spread it around the country to every blue city they can find.Powell: He's a clown, he's rightfully an object of ridicule, he doesn't know anything, he's riddled with pathologies that are obvious to everyone except him. And yet it's not just that he won, but that he effectively turned, not all of the American right, but certainly a large chunk of it into a personality cult. Charlie, given that he seems to be a singularly uninspiring personality, what happened?Charlie Sykes: Well, he's inspiring to his followers.Let me break down the question into two parts.I was in Milwaukee during the Republican Convention, when they were holding up the “Mass Deportation” signs—which was rather extraordinary, if you think about it, that they would actually put that in writing and cheer it. It's something that they'd been talking about for 10 years, but you could see that they were ramping it up.But you put your finger on this culture of performative cruelty and brutality that they have embraced. Trump has made no secret of that. It's one of the aspects of his appeal. For many, many years he's been saying that his idea of law and order is to have cops who will break heads and inflict harm. He's talked about putting razor blades on the top of the wall that Mexico was going to pay for. He's told stories about atrocities. One of his standard stories—that I think the media just stopped even quoting—was about Gen. “Black Jack” Pershing in World War I taking Muslim terrorists and shooting them with bullets that had been dipped in pig's blood. Totally b******t—he made the whole thing up. But it was an indication of a kind of bloodlust. He's talked about extrajudicial killings. He has expressed his admiration for strongmen like Duterte in the Philippines who have done this. He's talked about having drug courts that would have trials and executions the same day. So this is not a secret.What is really remarkable is the extent to which he's communicated that to his base. I mean, there are Americans who legitimately have concerns about immigration and about the border. But what he's also tapped into is this really visceral hatred of the other and the desire to inflict pain and suffering on them. I think that that is one of the ugliest aspects of his presence in our politics, and we saw that with the “Mass Deportation Now!” signs.Now, the second part is how he is implementing all of this with his raw police state, his masked brute squads sent into the city streets. And, again, he's made no secret of wanting to put active military troops into the streets of American cities. He was blocked from doing that in Trump 1.0, but obviously this is something that he's thought about and wants to do. And one of the most disturbing parts about this is the embrace of these kinds of tactics and this culture by law enforcement itself. Radley's written a lot about this. Donald Trump has gone out of his way, not only to defend war criminals, but also to defend police officers who've been accused of brutality. So he's basically put up a bat signal to law enforcement that: The gloves are off. We're coming in. There's a new sheriff in town.What's happening in Washington, D.C. is just a trial run. He's going to do this in New York. He's going to do this in Chicago. He's going to do this in one blue city after another. And the question is, “Will Americans just accept armed troops in their streets as normal?”Now, let me give a cautionary note here: Let's not gaslight Americans that there's not actually a crime problem. I think Democrats are falling into a kind of trap because there are legitimate concerns about public safety. So the argument shouldn't be: There's no crime problem. The argument should be: This is exactly the wrong way to go about dealing with it. Having mass, brute squads on the street is one step toward really running roughshod over a lot of different rights—due process rights and other constitutional rights—that most Americans are going to be reluctant to give up. But we're going to find out, because all of this is being tested right now.Balko: I'd like to jump in on the crime point. I mean, crime is down in D.C. D.C. does have a comparatively high crime rate for a city of its size. There's no question. It's always been that way here. But the idea that there's something happening right now that merits this response is what I meant when I called it a manufactured crisis.I think it's important to point out that, like you said, he's always wanted to do this. This is just the reason that he's managed to put his finger on and thinks is going to resonate.“I've been talking to people about this day for the last 20 years. I've been warning about the gradual militarization of our police, which is something that has happened in conjunction with the drug war and then the war on terror over 40 or 50 years. That debate was always about, ‘How militarized should our police be? How do we balance safety, and giving police officers what they need to protect public safety, with civil liberties and constitutional rights?' The fear was always that another Sept. 11 type event would cause what we're seeing now—that there would be a threat, that everybody acknowledges as a threat, that would cause an administration, states, mayors, to crack down on civil liberties. But there would at least be a threat that everyone recognizes as a threat. We'd be debating about how to react to it. When it comes to what's playing out today, there's no threat. This is all manufactured. This is all made up.” — Radley BalkoI do think we need to talk about crime and about what works and what doesn't. But I think it's important to acknowledge that “crime” is just the reason that he's found right now. This is something that he's been planning to do forever. Like Kristi Noem said, it is basically about deposing the leadership in these cities. In Los Angeles, she said that their goal was to “liberate” it from the socialist elected leaders.Sykes: I agree with you completely about that. I'm just saying that there is a danger of putting too much emphasis on the idea that there is not a crime problem—because in Chicago, there's a crime problem, in New York, there's a crime problem. People feel it. And, I mean, didn't Democrats learn a lesson in 2024 when there was inflation and they said, “Oh no, no, no, there's not really inflation here. Let me show you a chart. You can't think that the cost of living is a problem because here are some statistics that I have for you. There's not really a problem at the border—if you think there's a problem of immigration, a problem at the border, here, I have a chart showing you that there isn't a problem.” Well, you can't.If the public honestly thinks that there is a problem at the border, that there's a problem with inflation, and that there's a problem with crime, it's politically problematic to deny it because as David Frum wrote presciently in The Atlantic several years ago: If liberals will not enforce the border—you could add in, “or keep the city streets safe”—the public will turn to the fascists. If they think you will solve this problem and you're pretending it does not exist or you're trying to minimize it, they'll turn to the fascists.Balko: I don't want to belabor this, but I just think it's dangerous to concede the point when the premise itself is wrong.So, Trump made crime an issue in 2016, right? Recall the American Carnage inauguration speech. When Trump took office in Jan. 2017, he inherited the lowest murder rate of any president in the last 50 years. And yet he ran on crime. I think that it's important to push back and say, “Wait a minute, no, Obama did not cause a massive spike in crime. There was a tiny uptick in 2015, but that was only because 2014 was basically the safest year in recent memory.”Trump is also the first president in 30 years to leave office with a higher murder rate than when he entered it. You know, I don't think that presidents have a huge effect on crime, but Trump certainly does.So, I agree with you that we can't say crime isn't a problem, but we can also point out that crime went up under Trump and that what he's doing will make things worse.Sykes: I think these are all legitimate points to make. It's just that, Trump has this reptilian instinct to go for vulnerabilities. And one of the vulnerabilities of the progressive left is the problem of governance. If there is a perception that these urban centers are badly governed, that they are overrun with homeless encampments and crime and carjacking, then the public will see what he's doing as a solution.By the way, I'm making this argument because I think that we can't overstate how dangerous and demagogic what he's doing is. But I'm saying that this is going to be a huge fight. He's going to go into Chicago where crime is just demonstrably a problem, and where I think the mayor has an approval rating of about 12 to 16%, and he's going to say, “I am here with the cavalry.”There's got to be a better answer for this. There's got to be a way to focus on the real threat to the constitutional order that he is posing, as opposed to arguing on his ground and saying, “No, no, don't pay attention to crime, inflation, the border.”And, again, I'm making this argument because this is one that I think the country really has to win. Otherwise we are going to see militarization and an actual police state.Powell: Let me see if I can pull together some of the threads from the conversation so far, because I think there's a nexus, or something that needs to be diagnosed, to see the way through.When you [Charlie] were mentioning the bullets covered in pig's blood, what occurred to me was ... I was a kid at the height of '80s action movies. And that's the kind of thing that the bad guys did in '80s action movies. That's the kind of thing that justified the muscular American blowing them up or otherwise dispatching them.There's been a turn, now, in that we're seeing behavior from Americans that they would have at one point said, “This isn't who we are.” The Christianity that many Americans hold to, this is not the way that Jesus tells them to act. There's been a shift in our willingness to embrace this sort of thing, and it's behavior that I would have expected to horrify basically everyone watching it happening.And it is—his approval readings are declining rapidly. It is horrifying a lot of people—but fewer than I would have hoped. One of you mentioned that, on the one hand, there's the cruelty, but there's also the fear—and those are feeding into each other. And what I wonder is, yes, there's crime, but at the same time, if your media consumption habits are those of a committed Trump supporter, you are being told constantly to be afraid that everybody outside your door, except for the people who you recognize, or maybe the people who share your skin color or speak with the same accent you do, is a threat to you and your family.I see this with members of my own family who are Trump supporters. They are just terrified. “I can't ride the subway. It's too scary to ride the subway.” Or, “I go out in D.C. and I see youths doing the kinds of things youths do, and now I don't feel safe having my family there.” We don't have a war. We don't have a crisis. But we've told a huge portion of the country, “You should be afraid of every last thing except your immediate family and that guy who now rules the country.” And the crime rates are part of it. It's like, “You should be scared of every single one of these cities.”Sykes: It's a story. One of the speakers today was talking about the power of stories, that demagogues will tell a story. And a story of fear and anger is a very, very powerful story that you can't counteract with statistics. You need to counteract it with other stories.“This culture of performative cruelty and brutality is one of the aspects of his appeal. For many years he's been saying that his idea of law and order is to have cops who will break heads and inflict harm. He's talked about putting razor blades on the top of the wall that Mexico was going to pay for. He's told stories about atrocities. He would tell the story about Gen. ‘Black Jack' Pershing in World War I taking Muslim terrorists and shooting them with bullets that had been dipped in pig's blood. He's talked about extrajudicial killings. He has expressed his admiration for strongmen like Duterte in the Philippines who have done this. He's talked about having drug courts that would have trials and executions the same day. What is really remarkable is the extent to which he's communicated that to his base. He's tapped into this really visceral hatred of the other and the desire to inflict pain and suffering on them. I think that that is one of the ugliest aspects, and we saw that with the ‘Mass Deportation Now!' signs.” — Charlie SykesPart of the problem is that Trump has made that narrative. So, for example, you have members of your family who are Trump supporters. My guess is that they could name the young women who had been raped and murdered by illegal immigrants. Because, I mean, on Fox News, this is happening all the time, right? On Fox News, illegal immigrants are criminals. “Look at the crimes they are committing.” They tell that story in the most graphic way possible, and then turn around and say, “If you oppose what Donald Trump is doing, you are defending these ‘animals'”—as Trump described them.It is deeply dishonest. It is deeply dangerous. But it is potent. And we ought to look at it in the face and recognize how he is going to weaponize those stories and that fear, which is really the story of our era now. We're living in this era of peace, prosperity, general safety—and yet he's created this “American carnage” hellscape story.Balko: Yeah, I also think there's this weird paradox of masculinity in the MAGA movement. It's not about masculinity—it's about projecting masculinity. It's about co-opting aspects of masculinity. And it's like, “We're the manly men. We need men to be men again. And that's why we support men who sexually assault and sexually harass women. And, at the same time, we're all going to genuflect and debase ourselves in front of this 79-year-old man, because he's our leader and we need to let him insult our wives. And we're also scared to take the subway.” I think there were 10 murders last year in the New York city subway. The subway is one of the safest public spaces you'll find anywhere. But you'll regularly see MAGA people go on Fox News and talk about how scared they are of it.I mean, I don't know how persuadable any of MAGA is, but I do think pointing out the sheer cowardliness might resonate. When Markwayne Mullin goes on the Sunday shows and says he doesn't wear a seatbelt anymore because he's afraid he'll get carjacked and he needs to be able to jump out of his car quickly ...Sykes: ... He actually did say that.Balko: Yeah. And, I don't know what the stats are, but it's something like you're 40 or 50 times more likely to die in a car accident than you are in a carjacking. So, you know, he's sealing his own fate, I guess.But I do think that maybe there's something to appealing to their lack of masculinity when they try to push some of these narratives.Sykes: Well, yeah, I do think there are narratives out there.We have National Guard troops here in Washington, D.C.—where were they on Jan. 6th? Why did the president not bring them in then? We had one of the greatest assaults on law enforcement. So we can call b******t on Donald Trump being the “law and order,” “back the blue” president.One of the first things he did when he took office was issue the blanket pardons to all the rioters and seditionists who not only assaulted the Capitol, but specifically the ones who attacked police officers. We can stand up and say, “I don't want to be lectured by the man who gave the Get Out of Jail Free card to the people who tased and bear sprayed police officers in this city. Not to mention,”—before he brings up the whole “defund the police” thing—“the man who right now is dismantling the nation's premier law enforcement agency, the FBI.” Because all of these FBI agents who are being gutted or tasked with hassling homeless people in Washington, D.C., you know what they're not doing? They are not investigating child sex trafficking. They are not engaging in any anti-terrorism activities.So, what you do is call them out, saying, “You are not making this country safer. You are not the ‘law and order' president. You are a convicted felon. You in fact have freed and celebrated people who actually beat cops.” If Barack Obama would have pardoned someone who had attacked police officers, the right would have been utterly incandescent. And yet Donald Trump does it and he's not called out on it.I understand that there are some who are reluctant to say, “Well, no, we're actually the party of law and order. We're actually the party of public safety.” But you hit him right in what I think is a real vulnerability.Balko: One of the guys who literally told Jan. 6 rioters to kill the police is now a respected senior member of the Justice Department, whereas the guy who threw a sandwich at a cop is facing a felony charge. That is Trump's approach to law enforcement.Sykes: I always hate it when people go on TV and say, “This should be a talking point.” But that ought to be a talking point. Don't you think everybody ought to know his name? We have the video of Jared Wise saying, “Kill ‘em! Kill ‘em!” and calling the police Nazis. And he is now a top official in Donald Trump's Justice Department.Powell: This is my concern, though—and this allows me to belabor my Civil Rights Movement point some more. One of the reasons that the anti-civil rights movement, the counter-movement, was as vicious and as ugly as it was is because it was a group of people who felt like they had a status level by virtue of being white, of being men. As they saw things, “If we help minorities and others rise up, that lowers the baseline status that I have.” So they wanted to fight back. It was, “I'm going to keep these people down because it keeps me up.” And when Radley said that they're “projecting masculinity,” I think that's a big part.A big part of the appeal is, “Now I'm seeing guys like me dominating. Now I'm seeing guys who are from my area or share my cultural values or dress like me or are into the same slogans or have the same fantasies of power as I do, or just aren't the coastal elites with their fancy educations and so on, dominating.” And my worry is if that's what's driving a lot of it—that urge to domination coupled with the fear, which I think then allows them to overcome any barriers they have to cruelty—if you marry, “I can have power” and “I'm scared of these people,” that to them justifies their actions in the same way that it does the action movie heroes killing the guys who put the pig's blood on bullets. It becomes justified to inflict cruelty upon those they hate.My worry is if you go after them in that way, it feels like, “Okay, now what you're saying is these guys who look like me, who were dominating, don't actually deserve it.” I don't think that means that we stay away from it, but I think it risks triggering even more of this, “What I want is for it to be my boot on people's necks and I want them to stop putting me down. And I want them to stop telling me that I'm not good, that I'm incompetent, that it's not okay for me to beat my wife” (or whatever it happens to be). Trump is like an avatar for very mediocre men.Sykes: Well, I wouldn't use that as a talking point.Balko: A few years ago, I wrote a piece about a Black police chief who was hired in Little Rock by a mayor who ran on a reform platform and this police chief had a good record. He was in Norman, Okla. before that—he was the first Black chief in Oklahoma. And he was not a progressive by any means, but he was a reformer in that he wanted things to be merit-based and Little Rock has a really strong white police union. I say that because they also have a Black police union, because the Black officers didn't feel like they were represented by the white union.One of the first things that Chief Humphrey did was make the promotional interviews, that you get to move up through the ranks, blind. So you didn't know who you're talking to. If you were white, you didn't know if it was a fellow white person you were interviewing. Most of the people in charge were. The result of removing race from that process was that more Black officers were getting promoted than before. And I wrote about him because he ended up getting chased out of town. They hit him with fake sexual harassment charges; the union claimed he was harassing white women. Basically, they exerted their power and managed to chase him out.But one of the things he told me when I interviewed him was—and other people have said different versions of this—that when your entire life you've been the beneficiary of racial preferences as a white person, as happened in this country for most of its existence, meritocracy looks a lot like racial discrimination. Because things that you got just simply because you were entitled to now you have to earn. And that looks like, “Hey, this Black guy is getting this job over me. And that's not right. Because my dad got that job over the Black guy and his dad got the job over the Black guy.”And I think this backlash that we're seeing against DEI—I'm sure there are parts of this country where DEI was promoting unqualified people just to have diversity, and I do think there's there's value in diversity for diversity's sake—is white people, who have been benefiting from our racial hierarchy system that's been in place since the Founding, were starting to see themselves passed over because we were now moving to a merit-based system and they saw that as discrimination. That's a big part of the backlash.I don't know what the solution is. I don't know that we just re-impose all of the former policies once Trump's out of power, if he's ever out of power. But I do think that there is value in diversity for diversity's sake. Obviously I don't support strict quota systems, but I do think it's important to make that point that addressing historical injustices is critical.We went to the art museum in Nashville the other day and they had a whole exhibit about Interstate I-40 going through Nashville. It was supposed to go through this industrial area where there were no neighborhoods or private homes. And the Tennessee legislature deliberately made it run through the wealthiest Black neighborhood in Nashville and destroyed about 80% of Black wealth in the city. That was 1968—that was not 1868. That's relatively recently that you're destroying a ton of wealth. And you can find that history in every single city.I think a big part of this backlash is not knowing that history—and only knowing what's happening now and experiencing it out of context. For those people, it feels like reverse discrimination.Sykes: So, yes, a lot of this is true. But it's not the whole story. In the state of Wisconsin, overwhelmingly white voters voted for Barack Obama, a Black man, twice in a row before voting for Donald Trump. So we do have that long, deep history of racism, but then also an America that I think was making some progress. I'm just going to put this out as a counterpoint: I think that if people were appealing to the “better angels of their nature,” a lot of these people would not be buying into the cruelty, the brutality, the racism. Instead, we're appealing to their sense of victimization.But let's be honest about it. We moved from a Civil Rights Movement that was morally based on fairness and the immorality of discrimination to one that increasingly was identity politics that morphed into DEI, which was profoundly illiberal. What happened was a lot of the guys we're talking about were thinking not just that they want their boots on people's head, but they're constantly being told that they were bad, that their contributions were not significant. There were invisible tripwires of grievance—what you could say, what you could do, the way you had to behave. In the before times, a lot of the attacks on free speech and the demands for ideological conformity on university campuses were not coming from the illiberal right—they were coming from the illiberal left.And as I'm listening to the speakers at this conference talk about the assault on liberalism, I think one of the questions we have to ask—and maybe this is a little meta—is why it was so brittle. Well, it was brittle because it was caught in a pincer movement by the illiberal left and the illiberal right. My point is that a lot of this reaction is in fact based on racial animus, but there's also a sense that I hear from a lot of folks, a sense of liberation that they feel, that the boot was on their necks and is now being taken off, that they're not having to go to these highly ideological DEI training sessions where they were told how terrible and awful they were all the time. And how, if you believed in a race-blind society, that was a sign you were racist. If white women actually were moved by stories of racism and wept, that was white women's tears. This was heavy handed.“I do think the people who signed off on extraordinary rendition and snatching people off the street and sending them to a literal torture prison in El Salvador, those people need to be criminally charged. But I also think there need to be civil society repercussions. There are so many people in media—pundits, politicians who know better—who have a long record of pointing out how dangerous Trump was and then turned on a dime and started supporting him. I don't wish any physical harm on those people. I don't think any of those people should be put in prison. But I think those people should never be trusted as public intellectuals.” — Radley BalkoSo there was a backlash that was going to be inevitable. What's tragic is the way that it has been co-opted by the people who have really malign motives, who are not acting out of good will—the Stephen Millers who have figured out a way to weaponize this. But that line that goes from the racism of 1957 to the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s, to a broad-based civil rights consensus—and, again, there's caveats in all of this—to identity-based politics. Let's be honest about it. That was not without sin. That was not without problems.Balko: So, I agree that there was I guess what you could call an illiberal approach to a mutual exchange of ideas on college campuses. There was a lot of shouting down of conservative speakers. In some cases, there were invitations revoked to valedictory speeches. There was some cutting off of funding for conservative speakers. But I want to make sure we're not delving into false equivalences here. I mean, the boot that you're talking about, Charlie, was a metaphorical boot, and we're talking about a very literal boot now.Sykes: Absolutely. That distinction is a significant one.Balko: So, my preferred way of expressing my disagreement with someone isn't to shout them down. I will say, though, that protest is a form of speech. I think, even to some extent, interrupting speeches that are particularly problematic or extremist is a form of speech. It's not one that I personally would engage in. But the type of censorship we're seeing now is direct. It is government censorship. It is not a violation of the spirit of free expression that we were seeing on college campuses before.Sykes: Oh, it was more than just that kind of violation. You had universities that required people to sign a DEI statement where they had to make ideological commitments in order to get a job. I mean, this was very heavy handed. There were no literal boots, but ... I like Jonathan Rauch's analogy that the illiberalism of the left is still a real problem, but it's like a slow-growing cancer. Right now, what we're facing with the illiberalism of the right is a heart attack. We have to deal with the heart attack right now, but let's not pretend that everyone who objects to some of the things that were happening are doing so because they are just vile, white racists.This is part of the problem. People spent decades accusing others of being racist on flimsy grounds. If you support Mitt Romney, you're a racist. If you support tax cuts, you're a racist. You know what happened? I come from this world and there was a time when to be called a racist was the worst thing you could possibly say about somebody. And it got to the point where, literally, if you were in favor of school choice, you were racist; in favor of tax cuts, you were racist. If you voted for a Republican … John McCain was a racist, George Bush was a racist. So when the real thing came along, guess what people said? They just rolled their eyes, shrugged, and said, “We've heard this before.” I mean, it was crying wolf for decades.And I've had these conversations when I would say, “How can you support someone who is just espousing this raw, vicious racism about Haitians eating dogs?” You know what I would get? “Oh, we've been hearing this for 20 years. Literally everyone I know has been accused of being a racist.”So we need to come back to a consensus. If we're going to restore that liberal consensus, we're going to have to say, “This is acceptable behavior. And this is not acceptable behavior.” But we are not going to use these labels to vilify. The politics of contempt is just not helpful. It is not helpful to tell people, “By the way, I think you're an idiot. I think you're stupid. I think you're racist. Would you like to hear my ideas about taxes now?” It doesn't work. And I think that one of the things that, tragically, Trump has tapped into is the sense that these elites look down on you.So, Aaron, when you say that this is the revolution of mediocre men, not helpful. Now, some of them are mediocre. I certainly agree. I write about mediocre people all the time—but, again, the politics of contempt is not the way to get ourselves out of this.Powell: I think there's a distinction between messaging and diagnosis. And if we're to understand how we got here, or the kinds of beliefs or values that can lead someone ... and I don't mean, you've been a partisan Republican voter for your entire life, and you come from a family of this, and you pulled the lever for Trump, but you're mostly an uninformed voter, which is a lot of people—I mean, the people who are cheering on Stephen Miller, they're in a different category. So it might be that, if you have one of those people in front of you, the message is not to say, “There's a broken set of morals at play here,” or “there's a cramped view of humanity at play here,” because they're not going to hear that in the moment.But if we're to understand how we got here and what we're up against, I think we have to be fairly clear-eyed about the fact that the [Trumpian] values that we've discovered over the last 10, 15 years have much more appeal and purchase among a lot of Americans than I think any of us had really expected or certainly hoped, and then figure out how to address that. And, again, it's not everybody—but it's more than I would like. If those values are central to someone's being, and the way that they view others around them and the way they relate to their fellow man, then I think a lot of the less condemning arguments also won't find purchase because, ultimately, it's not a policy difference. It's a, “I want a crueler world.”Sykes: This is where I think the argument that says, “Let's look at this cruelty. Let's look at this brutality. Let's look at the Stephen Millers” ... believe it or not, I actually think it's potent to say to somebody, “Do you want to be like that? Is that really what you want America to be? You're better than that.” And then, “Let me tell you the story of decency.”The story that we heard earlier today about how neighbors who are Trump voters will be there if your house is burning down or your father dies ... you appeal to that innate decency and say, “Do you really want this cruelty?” This is what's lacking, I think, on the right and in the Republican Party right now: people who say, “Okay, you may want less taxes, smaller government, a crackdown on street crime, less illegal immigration ... but is this who you want to be?” Show them the masked officer who is dragging the grandmother away. I do think that there is the better angel that says, “No, that is really not the American story.” You have to appeal to them as opposed to just condemn them. I'm not sure we're disagreeing, but I actually think that that's potent.Balko: I think there is not only room for ridicule when you're up against an aspiring authoritarian, but a lot of history shows it's often one of the few things that works because they really hate to be disrespected.I agree with Charlie that I don't think it's necessarily productive to make fun of people who have been tricked or who have been lied to, but I also think it's worth pointing out that Trump has contempt for his own supporters. I mean, one of the great ironies of our time is that when Trump would need a boost of self-esteem, he would go hold a rally in a state that, before he ran for president, he would never have been caught dead in. He grifts from his own supporters. His lies about Covid got his own supporters killed at higher rates than people in states that didn't vote for him. But I agree that it doesn't serve much benefit to denigrate people.Sykes: But do ridicule the people who are doing it. I mean, don't get me wrong. South Park is doing God's work right now.Balko: Absolutely.Powell: What, then, is the way forward?“This is part of the problem. People spent decades accusing others of being racist on flimsy grounds. If you support Mitt Romney, you're a racist. If you support tax cuts, you're a racist. You know what happened? I come from this world and there was a time when to be called a racist was the worst thing you could possibly say about somebody. And it got to the point where, literally, if you were in favor of school choice, you were racist; in favor of tax cuts, you were racist. If you you voted for Republican. John McCain was a racist. George Bush was a racist. So when the real thing came along, guess what people said? They just rolled their eyes, shrugged, and said, ‘We've heard this before.' I mean, it was crying wolf for decades.” — Charlie SykesLet's assume that democracy survives this current moment and that we somehow put Trump behind us. We can't go back to the status quo before this. We can't just say, “We're going to go back to the kind of politics we had during the Biden administration.” That seems to be off the table. We need something new. We need a new direction. What does that look like?Sykes: I honestly do not know at this point. And I don't think anybody knows. But I do think that we ought to remember, because we throw around the term “liberal democracy” a lot, that democracies are not necessarily liberal. Democracies are not necessarily kind. And I think we need to go back to things like the rule of law.I think it's going to involve some kind of restoration of balance in society. The damage that's being done now is so deep and some of it is so irreparable that I'm hoping that there will be a backlash against it, that there will be a pendulum swing back towards fundamental decency. And even though we keep talking about democracy a lot, I think we need to start talking about freedom and decency a little bit more.You know, I was listening to the Russian dissident who spoke tonight and he asked us to imagine what it's like trying to create a democratic society in Russia with all of their history and all their institutions. As bad as things are for us, we have a big head start. We still have an infrastructure, compared to what he is up against. We still can restore, I think, that fundamental decency and sense of freedom and equality before the law.Balko: I also don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I will say this: I think one of the big reasons why we are where we are today is that there wasn't a proper reckoning, and no real accountability, after the Civil War and Reconstruction. It's been the same with Jan. 6. There was no real accountability. The Democrats waited too long for impeachment. The DOJ was slow.I do think there have to be repercussions. I'm not saying that we throw everybody in the Trump administration in prison, but I do think the people who signed off on extraordinary rendition and snatching people off the street and sending them to a literal torture prison in El Salvador, those people need to be criminally charged.But I also think there need to be civil society repercussions. There are so many people in media—pundits, politicians who know better—who have a long record of pointing out how dangerous Trump was and then turned on a dime and started supporting him. I don't wish any physical harm on those people. I don't think any of those people should be put in prison. But I think those people should never be trusted as public intellectuals. We shouldn't employ them in that realm. I think they should be able to earn a living. I don't think they should earn our trust.I have zero confidence that that's going to happen. But I can personally say that I have no interest in participating in events like this with those people. I have no interest in giving those people any kind of legitimacy because they tried to take our birthright away from us, which is a free and democratic society—the country that, for all its flaws, has been an exemplary country in the history of humankind. They literally are trying to end that. And I don't think you just get to walk away from that and pretend like it never happened.Sykes: I totally agree.Powell: With that, thank you, Radley. Thank you, Charlie.© The UnPopulist, 2025Follow us on Bluesky, Threads, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and X.We welcome your reactions and replies. Please adhere to our comments policy. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.theunpopulist.net

Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook vows that she won't go down without a fight against Trump, saying she will "see him in court". Then, Trump weaponizes allegations of mortgage fraud to silence his political opponents. Plus, with Democratic governors taking a stand against Trump, how his attacks are actually helping them. Jeff Mason, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Adam Wren, Dan Nathan, Gillian Tett, Charlie Sykes, and Matt Bennett join The 11th Hour this Tuesday night.

National guard troops and federal agents arrive in Washington D.C. as part of President Trump's anti-crime push – Attorney General Pam Bondi met with the D.C. mayor Muriel Bowser to lay out Trump's plan. The White House scrambles to make arrangements for Trump and Putin's Alaska summit set to occur this Friday. A new inflation report today has investors celebrating July's better-than-expected numbers, as inflation held steady and grocery and gasoline prices declined. Natasha Korecki, Charlie Sykes, Jeff Mason, David Gura, Ron Insana, Michael McFaul, and Jessica Knurick join The 11th Hour this Tuesday night.

To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines how Democrats are dropping the ball in opposing Trump. Party Chair of the Texas Democratic Party Kendall Scudder details how they’re fighting back against Greg Abbott’s gerrymander. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicolle Wallace is joined by Sam Stein, Vaughn Hillyard, Charlie Sykes, Steve Liesman, Ben Rhodes, Eddie Glaude, State Rep. John Bucy, Lisa Rubin, and Jacob Soboroff.

Join Matt Lewis and Charlie Sykes in a lively podcast episode diving into the Sydney Sweeney controversy, the ongoing culture wars, and the complex Israel-Gaza conflict. From debating the backlash against Sydney Sweeney's jeans ad to exploring the crisis of young men and the political missteps of both sides, this conversation covers it all. Plus, hear their candid thoughts on Bibi Netanyahu's leadership and the moral challenges of modern warfare. Don't miss this engaging discussion on pop culture, politics, and global issues!Support "Matt Lewis & The News" at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattlewisFollow Matt Lewis & Cut Through the Noise:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MattLewisDCTwitter: https://twitter.com/mattklewisInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattklewis/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhSMpjOzydlnxm5TDcYn0A– Who is Matt Lewis? –Matt K. Lewis is a political commentator and the author of Filthy Rich Politicians.Buy Matt's book: https://www.amazon.com/Filthy-Rich-Politicians-Creatures-Ruling-Class/dp/1546004416Copyright © 2025, BBL & BWL, LLC

Nicolle Wallace discusses Trump's strange comments about one of Jeffrey Epstein's most prominent victims, late night comedy's refusal to backdown on Trump's Epstein connection, new reporting from inside New York City's immigration court, Emil Bove's nomination hurdling towards confirmation despite more whistleblowers, and more.Joined by: Sen. Dick Durbin, Sam Stein, Claire McCaskill, Tara Palmeri, Marc Santia, Chris O'Leary, Jacob Soboroff, Andrew Weissmann, Charlie Sykes, and Dominic Patten.

Nicolle Wallace is joined by Vaughn Hillyard, Harry Litman, Glenn Thrush, Beto O'Rourke, Dominic Patten, Michael Grynbaum, Charlie Sykes, and Ian Bassin.

Joined by: David Gilbert, Charlie Sykes, Alex Wagner, Michele Norris, Sen. Cory Booker, Marc Elias, Angelo Carusone and Sarah Longwell. 

Nicolle Wallace is joined by Adam Goldman, Michael Feinberg, Sue Gordon, Vaughn Hillyard, Rev. Al Sharpton, John Heilemann, Mitch Landrieu, Charlie Sykes, Michele Norris, Ian Bassin, and Dr. Irwin Redlener.

Nicolle Wallace on the DOJ opening criminal investigations into former CIA Director John Brennan and former FBI Director James Comey and Trump setting more tariff ultimatums for trading partners.Joined by: Former CIA Director John Brennan, Marc Elias, Julian Barnes, David Gura, Alex Wagner, Michael Feinberg, Mike Schmidt, Charlie Sykes, and Paul Rieckhoff.

Alicia Menendez – in for Nicolle Wallace – on the division in the Republican Party as Trump's megabill reaches the Senate floor, continued ICE raids in Los Angeles stoking fear, and the Trump administration's plan to build a national citizenship data system.Joined by: Vaughn Hillyard, Charlie Sykes, Cornell Belcher, Angelo Carusone, Jacob Soboroff, Andrea Flores, Sen. Cory Booker, Eddie Glaude, Kim Atkins Stohr, Marc Elias, John Hudson, and Justin Wolfers.

Nicolle Wallace discusses brand new reporting on the U.S. strikes on Iran's nuclear facility as President Donald Trump lashes out at both Iran and Israel, his attacks on Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, the latest example of the administration's cruel immigration policy going viral, a whistleblower's claim about a top DOJ official, and more. Joined by:  Rep. Jason Crow, Courtney Kube, Michael Crowley, Ned Price, Justin Wolfers, Charlie Sykes, Alejandro Barranco, Jacob Soboroff, Ian Bassin, and Mike Schmidt.

Alicia Menendez – in for Nicolle Wallace – on how Trump is weighing U.S. military action in Iran, the administration's continuing immigration crackdown in Los Angeles, and America's top CEOs issuing the worst economic outlook since 2020. Joined by: Helene Cooper, David Frum, Claire McCaskill, Angelo Carusone, Jacob Soboroff, Rep. Jimmy Gomez, Michael Crowley, Tom Nichols, Lt. Gen. Stephen Twitty, Alex Jacquez, Charlie Sykes, Catherine Rampell, and Michael Eric Dyson.

To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines the escalation of Trump’s actions since his first administration. Ed Luce details his new book Zbig: The Life of Zbigniew Brzezinski, America's Great Power Prophet.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicolle Wallace on the forcible removal and handcuffing of Senator Alex Padilla from DHS Secretary Kristi Noem's press conference today, reactions from outraged Democratic lawmakers, and the stunning moment's implications. Joined by: Jacob Soboroff, Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, Ben Rhodes, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, Rep. Mikie Sherill, Rep. Robert Garcia, Maj. Gen. Randy Manner, Charlie Sykes, Justina Machado, and Alicia Menendez.

Nicolle Wallace and Alicia Menendez tag team today's Deadline White House and discuss Trump's escalating military response to the protests in Los Angeles as well as Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s gutting of the CDC advisory board. Joined by: Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass, California Attorney General Rob Bonta, Jacob Soboroff, Charlie Sykes, Elizabeth Findell, retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling, David Noriega, Mary McCord, Angelo Carusone, and Dr. Vin Gupta.

Nicolle Wallace on the Congressional Budget Office's bleak assessment of Trump's megabill, how Trump's tariffs are hurting supply chain industries, and how Pete Hegseth is working to erase civil rights history.Joined by: Scott Horsely, Mitch Landrieu, Tim Miller, Jacob Soboroff, Sheryl Gay Stolberg, Alex Wagner, Ryan Nobles, Charlie Sykes, Iowa State Rep. J.D. Scholten, Paul Rieckhoff, and Ukraine National Baseball Team pitcher Andrii Boiko.

Nicolle Wallace on Trump's tariff troubles in court, global fallout from DOGE imposed USAID cuts, and blowback from constituents at GOP town halls.Joined by: Charlotte Howard, Robert Armstrong, Mary McCord, Charlie Sykes, Antonia Hylton, Pablo Torre, Brett Murphy, Eddie Glaude, Tyler Pager and Sam Stein.  

Nicolle Wallace discusses the politicization of the Department of Justice after they charged a New Jersey congresswoman, Donald Trump's latest comments on the war in Ukraine after his phone call with Putin, Elon Musk's announcement that he plans to do less political spending, the companies preparing to raise prices due to tariffs, and more. Joined by: Newark Mayor Ras Baraka, Alex Wagner, David Jolly, John Hudson, Anne Applebaum, Derek Thompson, Charlie Sykes, Teddy Schleifer, Matt Dowd, and Mary McCord. 

Wall Street reacts to Trump's budget bill that could add trillions to the deficit. Then, a look at what Moody's credit downgrade means for Americans. And, Democrats hit reboot ahead of next year's midterms. Peter Baker, Tyler Pager, David Drucker, Natasha Sarin, David Gura, Charlie Sykes, Molly Jong-Fast, and Dr. Kavita Patel join The 11th Hour this Monday. 

To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines Trump’s Middle East trip and all its chaos. Representative Greg Casar details how Democrats can effectively message to win back voters.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicolle Wallace on Trump's lack of tariff deals despite his promises, low consumer sentiment amid rising fears of inflation, and the MAGA infighting causing trouble for Trump.Joined by: Justin Wolfers, Charlie Sykes, Lisa Rubin, John Brennan, Mike Schmidt, Maria Aspan, Rev. Al Sharpton, Tim Miller, Allen Orr, and Kristy Greenberg.

Nicolle Wallace discusses Donald Trump's first major international trip to Saudi Arabia while he faces scrutiny from all sides over his administration's plan to accept a luxury jet from Qatar to be used as Air Force One, his deal with China on tariffs, the growing backlash over his extreme immigration policies, his hostile takeover of the Library of Congress, and more.Joined by: Senator Chris Murphy, Sam Stein, Luke Broadwater, David Gura, Daniel Schuman, Rep. Joseph Morelle, Lee Gelernt, Matt Dowd, Charlie Sykes, and Pablo Torre.

Join Matt Lewis and Charlie Sykes, author of the 'To the Contrary' Substack, as they dive into the biggest political controversies. In this explosive podcast episode, they tackle Donald Trump's shocking Qatar plane deal, raising questions about security, bribery, and ties to Hamas funders. Plus, they also dissect Joe Biden's late exit from the presidential race, Kamala Harris's campaign struggles, and the Democratic Party's leadership crisis. From MAGA infighting to Laura Loomer's surprising critiques, this conversation uncovers the chaos shaping American politics. Don't miss this deep dive into the 2024 election fallout and what it means for the future!Support "Matt Lewis & The News" at Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mattlewisFollow Matt Lewis & Cut Through the Noise:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MattLewisDCTwitter: https://twitter.com/mattklewisInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattklewis/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVhSMpjOzydlnxm5TDcYn0A– Who is Matt Lewis? –Matt K. Lewis is a political commentator and the author of Filthy Rich Politicians.Buy Matt's book: https://www.amazon.com/Filthy-Rich-Politicians-Creatures-Ruling-Class/dp/1546004416Copyright © 2024, BBL & BWL, LLC

It was a week that brought a series of stinging court defeats for Trump and his bevvy of executive orders, which have as a common theme the disregard of constitutional limits. Michael Scherer, Ali Vitali, and Charlie Sykes join Harry to consider whether Trump is adjusting his approach or just erratic. They break down Trump's recent legacy media blitz before moving to the inauspicious mess of his tariff policy. Finally, they take up the significance of the defeat of the Ed Martin nomination.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The White House celebrates a "big deal" with the U.S. that turns out to be a framework with few details. Then, Trump names former Fox News host Jeanine Pirro as a top DC federal prosecutor after being forced to withdraw his first choice. And, the conclave elects the first US-born Pope, Leo XIV. Peter Baker, Charlie Sykes, David Gura, Bill Cohan, Chris Jansing, Joe Donnelly, Joyce Vance, Ben Jealous, and Ryan Busse join the 11th Hour this Thursday night.

Nicolle Wallace on the historic election of Pope Leo XIV, the first American-born pope, the nationwide crisis of masculinity, and the warning signs for America's democracy.  Joined by: Chris Jansing, Mike Barnicle, Christopher White, Steve Liesman, Scott Galloway, Tim Miller, and Charlie Sykes. 

Alicia Menendez – in for Nicolle Wallace – discusses the 100 day mark in President Donald Trump's second term as he loses ground with voters on the economy, the shocking results of the Canadian election that became a referendum on America, the continued attacks on federal workers by the Trump administration, and much more.   Joined by: Senator Mark Kelly, Jacob Soboroff, Ashley Parker, David Gura, Charlie Sykes, Richard Madan, Alanah Odoms, Jasmine Garsd, Angelo Carusone, Tim Miller, Mary McCord, and Stacey Young. 

We've got a great bonus pod for you to check out as Independent Americans host Paul Rieckhoff joined Charlie Sykes for a spirited, no-holds-barred deep dive into everything happening with Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, SignalGate and the danger we all face now with this inept leadership at the helm. They explore how a Fox News persona ended up with the nukes, what it means for U.S. national security, and why even Trumpworld is starting to panic. Plus, signs of resistance from Harvard, independent veterans, and the surprising impact of punching the bully in the nose. It's a hard-hitting no bullshit look at everything happening in and around the turmoil at the Pentagon. AND, the backstory and history you've probably never heard before.  From Charlie Syke's To The Contrary Podcast: Paul Rieckhoff: Why Hegseth Has to Go Pity the poor parodists. How can they possibly compete in a world where this is an actual headline: “Hegseth orders makeup studio installed at Pentagon?” Or this: “Hegseth had Signal messaging app installed on an office computer”? On today's “To the Contrary” Podcast, Paul Rieckhoff and I discuss the witless reign of the chode installed by Donald Trump as Secretary of Defense — and speculate about his fate. Paul is the founder of Independent Veterans of America and the host of the “Independent Americans” podcast.  Be sure to check it out on our YouTube page here. -Get extra content, connect with guests, attend exclusive events, get merch discounts and support this critical show that speaks truth to power by joining our IA community on Patreon.  -NEW! Watch the video version of the entire podcast here. -Check out Charlie's To The Contrary Substack here. -Find us on social media and www.IndependentAmericans.us. Where you can also get some very cool IA merch in time for Easter, Mother's Day or Father's Day.  Ways to listen: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0F1lzdRbTB0XYen8kyEqXe Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/independent-americans-with-paul-rieckhoff/id1457899667 Ways to watch: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@independentamericans Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/IndependentAmericansUS/ Social channels: X/Twitter: https://x.com/indy_americans BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/indyamericans.bsky.social Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/IndependentAmericansUS/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines Trump’s first 100 days of changing America.The Up and Up founder Rachel Janfaza details the divide in Gen Z’s voting and the complicated landscape of their support for Trump.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicolle Wallace on Trump's open defiance of the Supreme Court, calls to investigate Washington D.C.'s acting U.S. Attorney, and the harrowing arson attack at Governor Josh Shapiro's home this past weekend. Joined by: Vaughn Hillard, Andrew Weissmann, Judge J. Michael Luttig, Brendan Ballou, Frank Figliuzzi, Charlie Sykes, Sue Gordon, and Alex Gibney.

It was a week in which Trump's broad and malign influence on civil society took another giant step forward. He single-handedly brought the economy to the edge of a recession w/ erratic and ill-considered tariffs; commandeered several more large law firms; initiated criminal investigations of two former officials for daring to oppose his views; and issued an executive order on showerhead pressure. A fantastic panel of Jason Kander, Zoe Lofgren, and Charlie Sykes joins Harry to break it all down.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines Trump’s attacks on his political opponents. Democracy Americana’s Thomas Zimmer examines America’s continued lean toward authoritarianism.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this week's episode of 'The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart': Mounting Opposition. Thousands take to the streets across the country to protest the extreme Trump Agenda, from market-busting tariffs to devastating cuts to federal agencies and more. I'll ask former Biden advisor Mitch Landrieu if this is a defining moment for Democratic resistance. A Rough Republican week. The markets tanked. Their advantage in ruby red congressional districts was cut in half. And a Wisconsin supreme court seat didn't go their way. Political analyst Charlie Sykes and former Biden White House official Andrew Bates weigh in on whether this week was a defining moment for the GOP. Fear Factor. The Trump administration is fighting a judge's order to bring back a man mistakenly detained and sent to that notorious prison in El Salvador. Maria Hinojosa joins me to discuss how these wrongful removals are sparking fear in the immigrant community. And, on the run. Michigan state Sen. Mallory McMorrow is here to talk about her bid for a U.S. Senate seat and why she says it's time for a new generation of Democratic leadership. All that and more on “The Saturday Show with Jonathan Capehart.” 

Nicolle Wallace on stock markets plummeting as Trump's tariffs wreak havoc across the global economy.Joined by: Steve Liesman, Steve Rattner, Gene Sperling, Charlie Sykes, Marc Elias, Kristy Greenberg, Mitch Landrieu, Sarah Longwell, Derek Thompson, and Tim Miller.

On the first major election since Trump returned to the WH, Republicans held onto two key House seats in Florida, while Democrats took a crucial seat on the Wisconsin state supreme court. Plus, uncertainty grows less than 24 hours away from a new round of Trump tariffs. And, Cory Brooker breaks the record for the longest Senate floor speech with his anti-Trump protest. Jeff Mason, David Gura, Charlie Sykes, Peter Goodman, Carlos Curbelo, and Barbara McQuade join The 11th Hour this Tuesday, 

Nicolle Wallace on Trump defending his administration amid the Signal group chat controversy, the economic repercussions of looming reciprocal tariffs, and Trump's latest attempt to overhaul the Department of Justice.Joined by: Shane Harris, Claire McCaskill, Noah Shachtman, Shaquille Brewster, Charlie Sykes, Anne Applebaum, Eddie Glaude, Fiona Hill, and Harry Litman.

Charlie Sykes examines Pete Hegseth’s little group chat problem. The Shadow Docket author Stephen Vladeck details the dynamics of when the Supreme Court rules against Trump.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

 Questions grow surrounding a shocking security breach after Trump administration officials mistakenly include a journalist to a text chain about secret U.S. military strikes in Yemen. Plus, a judicial clash over the President's deportation flights and use of the Alien Enemies Act. And, the US and Russia begin talks on a partial ceasefire in Ukraine while the Kremlin orders more drone strikes. Susan Glasser, David Drucker, Barbara McQuade, Eric Swalwell, William Taylor, Joel Payne, and Charlie Sykes join as Charles Coleman Jr. hosts The 11th Hour this Monday.

Alicia Menendez – in for Nicolle Wallace – on the D.C. appeals court hearing into Trump's deportation flights, the administration's careless handling of national security intel, and Trump's escalating attacks on the rule of law. Joined by: Lisa Rubin, Jacob Soboroff, Claire McCaskill, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, Charlie Sykes, Gov. Andy Beshear, Mary McCord, Harry Litman, Michele Norris, Eddie Glaude, Rep. Jason Crow, and Michael Crowley.

Charlie Sykes is joined by Tom Nichols of The Atlantic to discuss the growing normalization of authoritarianism and the failure of America's institutions to push back. They cover everything from Trump's war on the judiciary to Elon Musk's growing influence, the alarming capitulations by law firms and universities, and Vladimir Putin's manipulation of global power dynamics. It's a wide-ranging, sobering, and often darkly funny conversation about why, even after all this time, we're still capable of being shocked. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Nicolle Wallace discusses the phone call between President Trump and Putin, growing fears from economists over a possible impending recession, the DOGE takeover of the U.S. Institute of Peace, protesting federal employees who – despite a court ordered return – are now being placed on “administrative leave,” Trump's escalating threat on the rule of law, and the rare pushback he got from Supreme Court Justice John Robert – AND live coverage of the NASA astronauts splashing down to earth after more than nine months in space. Joined by: Michael Crowley, Charlie Sykes, John Brennan, David Gura, Liam Scott, Andrew Weissmann, Tim Miller, Jacob Soboroff, Judge Esther Salas, and Chris Sembroski.

A roundtable of 3 great commentators--Josh Marshall, Charlie Sykes, and Ali Vitali--assesses the state of play in politics and U.S. society after 2 months of hyper-aggressive moves by Donald Trump. Minority leader Charles Schumer opted to go along with Republican plans to find the government, to the consternation of many Dems. Trump is trying to exercise control in large parts of civil society, including law, media, and the academy. Popular opposition is expanding, but can it make a difference?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Nicolle Wallace on the open displays of corruption from the White House, growing discontent with Trump's vindictive trade war, and the administration's flagrant attacks against the rule of law. Joined by: Angelo Carusone, Charlie Sykes, Teddy Schleifer, Kim Anderson, Susanne Craig, Catherine Rampell, Mike Schmidt, Claire McCaskill, Harry Litman, David Laufman, and Pablo Torre.

Nicolle Wallace on the chaos Trump is unleashing on the American economy, Elon Musk's agenda clashing with the MAGA movement, and DOGE staffing cuts disrupting the Department of Veterans Affairs.Joined by: Vaughn Hillyard, Charlie Sykes, John Heilemann, Martin O'Malley, Mike Schmidt, Andrew Weissmann, Marc Elias, Amy McGrath, and Kyle Lewis.

Nicolle Wallace on Team Trump's alignment with Russia, exasperated voters demanding oversight for DOGE, and the head of the New York FBI field office retiring under pressure.Joined by: Amb. Steven Pifer, Peter Baker, Claire McCaskill, Caroline Zier, David Fahrenthold, Charlie Sykes, Eddie Glaude, Sen. Angus King, Andrew Weissmann, and Maria Ressa.

Nicolle Wallace on the right-wing podcaster tapped to be deputy FBI director, angry voters voicing their frustration at Republican town halls across the nation, and Trump's sudden firing of the U.S. military's top officer.Joined by Ryan Reilly, Andrew Weissmann, Tim Heaphy, Alexis Loeb, Charlie Sykes, Eddie Glaude, Helene Cooper, Major General Steve Lepper, Amy McGrath, Amb. Michael McFaul, and Simon Shuster.

Nicolle Wallace on the Trump administration's targeting of FBI agents, the impending destruction of USAID, and a Democrat-led inquiry into Elon Musk's DOGE.Joined by: Tom Winter, Brendan Ballou, Andrew Natsios, Rick Stengel Sen. Richard Blumenthal, Kristy Greenberg, Charlie Sykes, Angelo Carusone, and Courtney Kube.