Podcasts about kevin so

State of the Arts Episode 233: The Asian Heritage Month Special is now available on Spotify! My podcast guest this week is Kevin So, who works behind the scenes in the entertainment and sports industries. This versatile creative wears many hats as an assistant in various arenas- including productions, marketing and event coordination. Aside from his exciting careers, he spends his free time attending concerts, traveling, circus-style juggling, content creating, appreciating the arts and occasionally gaming/cos playing. He is a finance enthusiast as well. With an abundance of gratitude I welcome this wonderfully dynamic talent to State of the Arts for this special episode!

Kevin and Aislinn talk about Wanderstop, the new game from the creator of The Stanley Parable Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:23: What Have We Been Up To 00:11:58: Game News 00:29:07: New Games 00:31:44: Wanderstop 01:15:33: Outro Links Pixelshire Release Date Honeymancer Early Access Release Date Space Sprouts Release Date Dave the Diver “Ichiban’s Holiday” DLC Another Harvest Moon G-Mode Game Cattle Country Optional Combat Funguys Swarm Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Kevin: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. My name is Kevin (0:00:34) Aislinn: And my name is Aislinn. (0:00:35) Kevin: And we are here to talk about cottagecore games supposedly that’s a little box. It’s whoo (0:00:40) Aislinn: Woo! (0:00:42) Kevin: I forget about that. Well, I always try to be a bit of a smart alec and adding nonsense there, but whoo (0:00:49) Kevin: Although I’m although I don’t know how much I like wooing at this game. I’m very hesitant about whoo (0:00:50) Aislinn: Woo! It’s cute, I like it. (0:00:56) Aislinn: That’s true, that’s true, you make a good point. (0:00:57) Kevin: I’m kidding. I love I love (0:00:58) Aislinn: Spoilers! (0:01:00) Kevin: We’re here to talk about wander stop the tea shop game by the I forget the actual dead team name the Stanley parable people (0:01:09) Kevin: Brace yourself because anyone who’s familiar Stanley parable knows that means things (0:01:16) Aislinn: I wholeheartedly agree. (0:01:17) Kevin: But (0:01:18) Kevin: Okay, but before we get to those things let’s talk about other things (0:01:23) Kevin: Aisling what’s what’s up? What’s been going on tell me about your sky high life? (0:01:26) Aislinn: Um, I think you already know what’s been going on. (0:01:30) Kevin: You (0:01:31) Aislinn: We’ve been very busy with work and when not working, (0:01:36) Aislinn: I’ve been very busy trying to make as much progress as humanly possible in Wandershop. (0:01:42) Kevin: Yeah (0:01:42) Aislinn: And when I’m not doing that, then I’m doing the usual like dailies on my phone of like (0:01:48) Aislinn: Pokémon Sleep, TCG Pocket. I’m hard into Neko Atsume right now. (0:01:50) Kevin: Uh-huh (0:01:52) Kevin: Okay (0:01:56) Aislinn: It’s just the original, and I want to try and get everything in Neko Atsume as much as possible. (0:01:57) Kevin: Okay, wait, what is that one do tell the name escapes me (0:02:03) Aislinn: It’s a cat collecting game. It’s a cat collecting mobile game, (0:02:07) Aislinn: and it’s literally just cat collection, and it’s so cute. It’s so cute. And there’s a new Neko Atsume (0:02:08) Kevin: oh yes okay i’m familiar with this one yes it is (0:02:14) Aislinn: that came out somewhat recently, so I’m like, I’m not gonna play that until I finish the original. (0:02:20) Aislinn: So that’s what I’ve been doing. And then if I’m not doing any of those, (0:02:22) Kevin: Sure. (0:02:25) Aislinn: that I’m doing a lot of wedding planning. (0:02:26) Aislinn: So that’s pretty much what I’ve been up to, yeah. (0:02:27) Kevin: Ahhh! (0:02:29) Kevin: Has that been on the show? Wait, has that been discussed on the show at all? (0:02:32) Kevin: I don’t, I don’t know if it… (0:02:32) Aislinn: No, it has not been discussed in the show, so. (0:02:34) Kevin: Ahh, okay, how far are we? What’s, uh, what’s our target date here? (0:02:39) Aislinn: Our tar- actually, I have not announced to, like, everyone the target date. (0:02:43) Kevin: Oh! (0:02:45) Aislinn: I’ve been keeping that, like, more on a personal note, but I can tell you June. (0:02:47) Kevin: Okay, well you got a range? (0:02:49) Kevin: Sure. (0:02:50) Kevin: Okay. Okay. Well, sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. (0:02:52) Aislinn: Yeah, so we’re almost there. (0:02:52) Kevin: Yes. That’s correct. That’s correct. Very, um, very, very, uh, impressive dedicated you to to playing your wedding during the, the, the Go Fest this year, or whatever the thing’s called. (0:02:56) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:02:57) Aislinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:03:00) Aislinn: Literally, we’re not quite there yet. (0:03:06) Aislinn: It’s, yeah, no, each month that progresses closer and closer. (0:03:08) Kevin: Yes. That’s correct. That’s correct. Very, um, very, very, uh, impressive dedicated you to, to playing your wedding during the, the, the, the Go Fest this year, or whatever the thing’s called. (0:03:09) Aislinn: I’m like more and more just panic, panic, panic. (0:03:22) Aislinn: Well, that wasn’t that wasn’t in the works (0:03:22) Kevin: The, um, all right, but, uh, good stuff. Okay. So let’s see here. Okay. Just, just a side note on that. Have you, uh, I’d play a different kind of cat collecting game. Have you ever heard of the battle cats? (0:03:25) Aislinn: That wasn’t that wasn’t supposed to happen, but it just happened to happen and I was like well (0:03:29) Aislinn: We’re gonna see what happens with that (0:03:46) Aislinn: Um, no, what is that? I’m looking that up right now. (0:03:46) Kevin: Oh, I think I’ve talked to that on the show, but, um, (0:03:52) Kevin: you know, I’m going to tag you an image on the slack. I’m creating the, the live slack thread of me. (0:03:58) Aislinn: Wait, this looks so cute. (0:04:04) Kevin: What are you, you googled it. (0:04:04) Aislinn: I’m looking at it right now. (0:04:05) Aislinn: Yeah, of course I googled it. (0:04:08) Kevin: Okay. Because I was going to show all, but did you see the freaky ones yet? Um, yes, those are legs. Did you see the one with the buff one? That’s the last four legs. (0:04:10) Aislinn: Oh, those are legs. (0:04:19) Aislinn: I have not seen that yet. (0:04:22) Kevin: Yes. They’re kind of cute, but also terrifying. Like it’s, it’s a very cheek cheeky, like comical tone. Um, yeah. Yeah. There you go. There’s good old fish cat. And those are just the basics, right? Like this, it’s a gotcha game. (0:04:30) Aislinn: It’s a it’s a good aesthetic. I like, oh, I found the buff one. I found the buff one. (0:04:40) Kevin: So, and it’s, I think 10 years old now and they actually get a lot of crossovers. They’ve crossed over, they cross over like Hatsune Miku every six years. Um, Street Fighter was one. (0:04:50) Aislinn: Ooh. (0:04:54) Kevin: Um, Konosuba, I think lots of animes. I don’t know. Um, but it’s yeah. And on the best part, the best part about their crossover is you get both ways. You get Hatsune Miku as a playable character and then you get a cat that looks like Hatsune Miku. (0:05:00) Aislinn: You got me with Miku, that’s it. That’s the end-all for me. Miku or boss? That’s it. (0:05:13) Aislinn: Oh my god. That is wonderful. (0:05:14) Kevin: Here, I’ll see if I can find it. Um, I play that one on and off. My brother is a big, um, is a big, uh, (0:05:22) Kevin: battle cats fan more than ISO. Um, uh, but, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s a great one there. I posted a pic. You want to see it. Um, there’s your Hatsune Miku cat. Um, they literally just used the standard cat and put the costume on it. It’s, it’s hilarious. Oh, one of my favorite ones. They did Evangelion. (0:05:34) Aislinn: Oh my god! It’s so cute! It’s so good! (0:05:40) Aislinn: That’s wonderful! (0:05:46) Aislinn: Ooh, that’s sick. That’s really cool. (0:05:50) Kevin: That was a good one, that was a good one. (0:05:54) Kevin: Anyways, so anything else, I’m sorry? (0:05:55) Aislinn: Well, I will be checking out this game. (0:05:58) Aislinn: I will be checking out this game. (0:05:58) Kevin: Oh, it’s free, be warned. (0:06:02) Aislinn: Oh, perfect! That’s all I need. Free is for me. That’s it. (0:06:04) Kevin: There you go. (0:06:04) Aislinn: um that’s pretty much been it I guess actually one one little thing that I can kind of announce (0:06:06) Kevin: Aw, sick, I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on Battle Cats. (0:06:08) Kevin: It’s pretty fun. (0:06:10) Kevin: Anything else you’ve been up to? (0:06:19) Aislinn: and we’re really really hoping the best so like you know how I kept saying for today like oh i (0:06:21) Kevin: Yes, to be fair, you’re always busy so that wasn’t out of the ordinary. (0:06:23) Aislinn: have i’m busy earlier in the day and that’s we’re recording at 9 p.m eastern um yeah but it’s more (0:06:33) Aislinn: fun news so hope (0:06:34) Aislinn: we will have a new kitty or two in the household here so that’s what we were doing earlier today so i’m like I i’ve been holding that like i’ve been withholding that just for like a I wanted to get your genuine reaction like first reaction to it so (0:06:42) Kevin: Oh, oh hot off the press (0:06:54) Kevin: Oh (0:06:55) Aislinn: pause cast exclusive (0:06:57) Kevin: Podcast exclusive you heard it first here. Oh, that’s okay. Okay. You said possibly multiple. Well, yeah (0:07:05) Aislinn: yeah we’re just waiting on what I i’m not saying too much just because there’s a lot of logistics which I can tell you about later there’s a lot of logistics that we’re currently figuring out but it should hopefully work out tomorrow question mark. (0:07:11) Kevin: Sure (0:07:14) Kevin: Okay (0:07:15) Kevin: Yeah as (0:07:18) Kevin: You know, well, that’s that’s exciting. I can’t wait to hear and see them and so on but but that’s good (0:07:22) Aislinn: yeah. (0:07:24) Kevin: There should be logistics involved unlike us who a guy just kind of said. Hey, you want a free cat and handed us two kittens? (0:07:26) Aislinn: absolutely. (0:07:33) Kevin: Okay, oh they they are very love yes (0:07:33) Aislinn: but they are loved and that’s all that (0:07:34) Aislinn: matters but otherwise that’s it no not by any means (0:07:40) Kevin: Yeah that and let’s be honest cats are not the hardest to take care of (0:07:44) Kevin: You know that the hard part is cat. No, no such thing as catproofing but bracing for the uncommon storm, but (0:07:52) Aislinn: Yeah, we are definitely bracing here. (0:07:54) Kevin: Oh (0:07:55) Kevin: That’s exciting. I can’t wait to hear more. Um, congratulations. Very very excited about that (0:07:57) Aislinn: Yeah! Thank you! (0:08:00) Aislinn: What about for you? (0:08:01) Kevin: Okay, um (0:08:02) Kevin: so I will (0:08:02) Aislinn: I like your just Chicago man. (0:08:04) Kevin: Yeah, so I I don’t know if I mentioned it on this show, but I started a new job (0:08:12) Kevin: About a month and a half ago started February (0:08:15) Kevin: and (0:08:18) Kevin: I’m hit the ground running. They sent me to a trade show to man a booth (0:08:22) Kevin: and that was (0:08:24) Kevin: I was there all week this past week (0:08:26) Kevin: my feet are dead (0:08:28) Kevin: I’m ready to be chopped off (0:08:30) Kevin: not my first time in Chicago (0:08:32) Kevin: I actually went to that same event (0:08:34) Kevin: two years ago but (0:08:36) Kevin: as an attendee, not an exhibitor (0:08:38) Kevin: so yeah (0:08:38) Aislinn: Uh-huh. (0:08:40) Kevin: my role is partially sales now (0:08:42) Kevin: so I actually have to go up (0:08:44) Kevin: and pitch and talk to people and so on (0:08:46) Kevin: and so forth and try to get leads (0:08:48) Kevin: so that was (0:08:50) Kevin: busy, excited, it was good work (0:08:52) Kevin: Um, yeah. (0:08:52) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:08:54) Kevin: Um, I, I, I learned a lot trial by fire, absolutely, but good times. (0:08:58) Kevin: Um, and, and there was other enjoy it. (0:09:00) Kevin: Well, it was, it was like 90% work, but there were some nice dinners. (0:09:05) Kevin: One night we hit a piano bar. (0:09:07) Kevin: That was quite fun. (0:09:08) Aislinn: Ooooh, that’s really cool. (0:09:09) Kevin: Uh, it wasn’t, it wasn’t even, it wasn’t a super classy one. (0:09:12) Kevin: Um, it was very more bar than piano, if that makes sense. (0:09:15) Kevin: But you had the guy up there playing the songs and, and, and you can make requests (0:09:19) Kevin: and there was enough space to dance, which I did. (0:09:21) Kevin: I am a dancing machine. (0:09:22) Aislinn: Bye! (0:09:22) Kevin: fun fact. (0:09:24) Kevin: so yeah so which after a full day of standing and exhibiting wasn’t the best (0:09:30) Kevin: idea of my I pre bled my feet for the next day but but so worth it yeah yeah (0:09:34) Aislinn: Eh, it’s all in good fun. It’s all in good fun! (0:09:37) Kevin: um yeah that was uh that was fun I tried the deep dish that was good weather (0:09:44) Kevin: weather was insane it was it was snowing when I landed and like the next day we (0:09:50) Kevin: We hit 70 degrees and then two days later it hailed. (0:09:50) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:54) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:54) Kevin: It was a roller coaster. (0:09:56) Aislinn: Oh, my. (0:09:56) Kevin: Oh, a life first. I had a hailstone land directly into my mouth. (0:10:02) Kevin: As I said, was that hail and the duke just right in there? (0:10:06) Aislinn: Why do I feel like that’s like such a you thing? (0:10:10) Aislinn: That feels like such a you thing. (0:10:10) Kevin: Yeah, that’s… that’s correct. (0:10:12) Kevin: That is 100% correct. (0:10:16) Aislinn: I’ve never heard that before. That’s amazing. (0:10:18) Kevin: Yeah. (0:10:20) Kevin: Yup. (0:10:20) Aislinn: So it sounds like you had a great time in Chicago. (0:10:24) Kevin: Yeah, it was a lot of work, but it was a legendary time. (0:10:28) Kevin: We’ll be back in two years. Next year there’s a different trade. (0:10:30) Kevin: So actually here, right here in Atlanta, home turf. (0:10:34) Kevin: So at least I don’t have to do the major travel bit, but I’m sure it will be just as busy. (0:10:40) Kevin: But yes, good times were had, success was had by kind of me. (0:10:46) Kevin: Baby salesmen on his training wheels did little salesmen. (0:10:46) Aislinn: I’m sure you did great. (0:10:52) Kevin: Aside from that, obviously (0:10:54) Kevin: not a lot of time for games. I snuck in a few of the regulars. Marvel, Snap, Rivals, Unite, here and there on different occasions and so on. (0:11:00) Kevin: That’s all fine and all. (0:11:04) Kevin: Wander Stop, like you said, trying to squeeze in as much time humanly possible. (0:11:08) Kevin: And not even just because I want to play for the show, because I just want to play more Wander Stop. (0:11:08) Aislinn: No, me too I feel that, which we’ll definitely get into. (0:11:16) Kevin: And also, for the Mario-verse over there on the other show of Rainbow Road Radio, (0:11:22) Kevin: I play (0:11:24) Kevin: I did the same Kingdom. That’s not the little Mexican (0:11:27) Kevin: Kingdom in Super Mario Odyssey good times (0:11:30) Aislinn: Oh, sick. (0:11:31) Kevin: Yes, good. I love you mate. It’s all a replay (0:11:35) Kevin: But super enjoyable. I’m Mexican. What can I say? I’m super biased. They did I did Mario, Mexico (0:11:38) Aislinn: that game in general was just fantastic so i’m glad to hear that too that that section is like (0:11:40) Kevin: I have no complaints. They got him into sombrero (0:11:45) Kevin: It is yeah like (0:11:47) Kevin: What can I say what? (0:11:48) Aislinn: enjoyable for you (0:11:49) Kevin: She’s shocking this revisit to Super Mario Odyssey. Yeah, I’ve determined. It’s a good game (0:11:57) Kevin: Alright. (0:11:58) Kevin: Speaking of good games, I say that with an asterisk, or you have no idea. (0:12:02) Kevin: laughs Let’s talk about some game news. laughs Let’s talk about some announcements and such. (0:12:05) Aislinn: yeah (0:12:07) Kevin: Alright, take us away Ace with our first one. (0:12:09) Aislinn: all right so in game news the first game that I am looking at is pixel shire that’s going to be (0:12:16) Aislinn: releasing on the 8th of may and from what i’m looking at on the steam page it says that it is (0:12:22) Aislinn: an adventure farming sim 2d single player game from the developer capibits and it it really does (0:12:30) Aislinn: seem like a adventure farming sim 2d single player 2d single player game it also has notes about unique (0:12:37) Aislinn: RPG sandbox. (0:12:38) Aislinn: Which mixes Lifesim elements with town building, exploration, and combat. (0:12:46) Aislinn: And you can trade, you can do all the things that are normally in most farming sim games. (0:12:53) Kevin: that’s correct (0:12:55) Kevin: uh… I would (0:12:55) Aislinn: But it looks really cute! (0:12:56) Kevin: okay cs the first of all okay up (0:12:59) Kevin: the name I would imply it’s to be pixel art and it is cute (0:13:02) Kevin: uh… it is a a bit more chibi ask or or eight-bit than say uh… (0:13:05) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:13:08) Kevin: uh… stardew valley (0:13:09) Aislinn: It’s more round. (0:13:09) Kevin: uh… so you know (0:13:11) Kevin: uh… it’s a it’s different flavor (0:13:13) Kevin: uh… but there are some actually notable elements I think in here that (0:13:16) Kevin: they were talking about on first of all like you mentioned (0:13:18) Kevin: uh… sandbox as in (0:13:20) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:23) Aislinn: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s really, really cool. (0:13:24) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:32) Aislinn: Yeah. Mm-hmm. (0:13:53) Kevin: I would say Animal Crossing New Leaf or Minecraft. (0:13:53) Aislinn: Oh, I didn’t realize that about this game too! That’s awesome! (0:14:08) Aislinn: I agree. Yeah, I like the art style. I like the kind of, I guess you could say animal (0:14:14) Aislinn: crossing aspect, but more so, more generally, the sandbox aspect of being able to, as it (0:14:20) Aislinn: says, re-sculpt the world through terraforming. I think that’s really, really cool. And honestly, (0:14:23) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they they emphasize on the yeah, yeah, so. (0:14:25) Aislinn: any game that has animals that you can raise to, they are so cute in this game. I love (0:14:31) Aislinn: it. So, but it looks, it looks great. Like as someone, as someone has been in a stance (0:14:36) Aislinn: of like being overwhelmed constantly by (0:14:38) Aislinn: farming games. This is this is a farming game. I know. This (0:14:40) Kevin: Welcome, welcome to the show, Eastland. (0:14:45) Aislinn: is one farming game that actually does peak more (0:14:47) Aislinn: interest versus other farming games. So yeah, big props to (0:14:48) Kevin: Yeah. (0:14:51) Aislinn: them. Looks really, really cool. (0:14:53) Kevin: I have not facepalmed the one watching the trailer. (0:14:56) Kevin: So good on you. (0:14:58) Kevin: That’s a thumbs up. (0:15:00) Kevin: No, and you know what? (0:15:02) Kevin: I’m, I may jinx it, but I didn’t see any romance in there. (0:15:06) Aislinn: I’m sure there’s romance. There’s no way there’s not. There’s no way there’s not. (0:15:06) Kevin: Free free from the shackles. (0:15:08) Kevin: No, well, either way. (0:15:13) Kevin: Oh, oh, okay. (0:15:15) Kevin: Wait, hold on one second. (0:15:16) Kevin: I just want to say, okay, sorry about that. (0:15:16) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:15:18) Kevin: The jaws theme played as my puppy entered the room. (0:15:21) Aislinn: Oh, no. (0:15:21) Kevin: Um… [laughs] (0:15:23) Kevin: Um… [laughs] (0:15:25) Kevin: Okay. Alright, what’s up next? Do tell me. (0:15:28) Aislinn: All right, so the next game that I’m looking at here is Honeymancer, and it’s coming soon to Early Access. (0:15:36) Aislinn: It’s currently on March 27th. (0:15:38) Aislinn: So, yeah, or actually, yeah, that’s what it seems to look like. March 27th, Early Access, coming soon, and also another Pixel 2D-looking situation, but this is more so the tags are Indie, RPG, Pixel Graphics, Tower Defense 2D, and it looks like this is not really a farming game at all. (0:16:01) Aislinn: And when I first looked at it with the just because of the art style alone, I was like, oh, it’s another far (0:16:06) Aislinn: I’m again, I’m like, oh, wait, no, it’s not. Wait, that’s really cool. And it’s got bees and we love bees here. So (0:16:09) Kevin: Yeah (0:16:12) Kevin: Yeah, all right, so there’s a few few things going on here right first of all the premise of bear wizard (0:16:19) Kevin: That’s pretty strong already right you’re you’re setting its own bear witch excuse me (0:16:25) Kevin: You have a one you’re shooting things in combat (0:16:28) Kevin: You’re fighting off robots invading the forest with other cute neighbor animals (0:16:33) Aislinn: which the robots look so cute by the way I just again the art style I’m just like gosh I love (0:16:35) Kevin: They do (0:16:38) Aislinn: this art style it’s so cute I’m such a sucker for good art styles yeah they do it’s so cute (0:16:40) Kevin: I (0:16:41) Kevin: Yup, it is a it is a very strong art style. Absolutely. I’m again 2d pixel, but it’s a very strong one (0:16:47) Kevin: I like how even the trees kind of look like beehives. It’s a very cute little touch (0:16:53) Kevin: yep (0:16:54) Kevin: there looks like there’s (0:16:57) Kevin: Management of some kind you’re growing flowers for bees making potions. So, you know, there’s elements of cottagecore stuff (0:17:03) Kevin: But it’s not your standard you have grandpa’s farm or whatever on which is fun (0:17:09) Kevin: Special shoutouts to the as they describe it the bee dog. There’s a large bumblebee flying you around. It’s more bee than dog (0:17:17) Kevin: we the the big question which (0:17:20) Kevin: You know, we’ll have to wait is where does it land on the Cody scale of acceptability? (0:17:25) Aislinn: I know, we’ll have to stay tuned to find out, right? (0:17:28) Kevin: Is it is it is it Cheeba fight is it cartoonified enough? (0:17:34) Kevin: But I mean, it’s a pretty big bee. So I think she’s gonna be on (0:17:36) Aislinn: It is a very big B. (0:17:39) Kevin: Bigger than you. So I think I think she’s gonna be on board with this one (0:17:40) Aislinn: It really is. (0:17:44) Kevin: But there are other non giant bees that you are helping raise. So that’s fun (0:17:49) Kevin: You know, it’s hard to tell how deep they’re going into it and unexpected to be (0:17:53) Kevin: You know for on be sim but but it looks good enough. It goes into the bear honey (0:17:59) Aislinn: Yeah, no, it looks it looks really cute. It’s hard to get much information based off of just (0:17:59) Kevin: So yeah (0:18:03) Aislinn: the Steam page, but like it looks generally really cute. We’ll see you soon in early access. (0:18:04) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:06) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:09) Aislinn: If this is your type of gameplay, I think it’s worth checking out because it just the (0:18:09) Kevin: March 27th (0:18:13) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:13) Aislinn: colors alone are like really pretty too. Yeah, I love that. Uh-huh. Yeah, they feel very anime. (0:18:15) Kevin: The colors are very well done (0:18:16) Kevin: I like the expressions on the characters and the little portraits when they’re speaking they get exaggerated in cartoonish. That’s that’s (0:18:24) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s fantastic (0:18:26) Kevin: I’m right because I think that’s probably a big criticism (0:18:30) Kevin: You have a lot of these cottage cores like the this character portraits are somewhat muted a lot of times (0:18:35) Kevin: I would say this one’s going for the anime eyes and everything (0:18:39) Aislinn: Yeah, I like it. I really do like it (0:18:39) Kevin: It’s great. I have one big criticism against it though (0:18:45) Kevin: And it’s nothing the game itself done, but unfortunately the title of honeymancer actually (0:18:45) Aislinn: Oh, okay (0:18:52) Kevin: I think it’s honey wizard has already been claimed by Winnie the Pooh in the Lorkana (0:18:57) Kevin: Card game have you okay? I posted it in the thread if you’ll take a look Aislin (0:19:01) Aislinn: Let me see. (0:19:02) Kevin: Lorkana the Disney TCG came out with a card called Winnie the Pooh honey wizard and (0:19:03) Aislinn: Oh my gosh, I’ve never, (0:19:07) Aislinn: I’ve never seen Winnie the Pooh look so magical. (0:19:09) Kevin: It’s pretty amazing. It’s (0:19:12) Kevin: Possibly the best card. They’ve ever come out with and so (0:19:15) Kevin: you know you do a lot of great things honeyman sir, but (0:19:16) Aislinn: Was that a pun? (0:19:20) Kevin: You got a tall tall bar or tall bear. I guess to cross to overcome there (0:19:24) Aislinn: What was that a pun though? Is that possibly you get it the pun because you said possibly possibly (0:19:28) Kevin: Do what oh (0:19:31) Kevin: Yes, yes (0:19:35) Kevin: Okay, I guess all right there all right beautiful (0:19:37) Aislinn: We got it we got we got there one way or another we got there (0:19:39) Kevin: I like this shot of the raccoon screaming in the trailer just eyes fisheyes in different directions with full vertical mouth. It’s great (0:19:52) Kevin: Yeah, all right (0:19:55) Kevin: What a speaking of moods. What do we actually I do have a mood. I don’t know what’s next. What’s next? (0:19:58) Aislinn: The next game is the next game is Space Sprouts, an exploration puzzle physics simulation 2D (0:20:01) Kevin: No, it’s (0:20:09) Aislinn: game are the tags, and it does primarily look like it’s a puzzle game where you bend the (0:20:17) Aislinn: rule of physics, experiment with unusual gadgets, and toss everything around. (0:20:23) Aislinn: I think out of the three games that we discussed so far, I think this game feels mostly up (0:20:28) Aislinn: because I’m always down for a good puzzle game, and the fact that there is physics in this too (0:20:31) Kevin: Uh huh. Yeah, in a good way. Yeah, that that that is a very specific alliterative title (0:20:33) Aislinn: really also intrigues me. It looks like it also kind of infuriates me, but I’m kind of, (0:20:38) Aislinn: oh perfect, cozy cosmic chaos feels like the perfect description for this game. (0:20:47) Kevin: and it works. Right, so space is the key thing right here, right? We’re not we’re managing (0:20:52) Kevin: a space station. And so you’re going to have gravity physics and light bending and all (0:20:56) Kevin: sorts of nonsense. There’s all in the trailer, you see the water floating around, you have (0:21:01) Kevin: a push it or whatever. So expect space shenanigans. Um, that sounds kind of cute. Like a very muted (0:21:09) Kevin: storybook looking design for these characters. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it is a very nice looking (0:21:12) Aislinn: Yeah, I like the colors. (0:21:15) Aislinn: I’m all about the colors of all of these games so far. (0:21:18) Aislinn: All of these games look really, really nice. (0:21:21) Kevin: game. Demo out now if you are curious and full release date in just a little over a (0:21:28) Kevin: for a week on March 31st. (0:21:30) Aislinn: Almost there! (0:21:32) Kevin: Yup, so, uh, good on you space sprouts. (0:21:35) Kevin: Um, yeah, I’m sure some people hint, hint on the show. (0:21:39) Kevin: Might like, I don’t, I, I have no idea who, but I feel like somebody (0:21:42) Aislinn: I mean, I like it, I’m interested in it. (0:21:43) Kevin: on the show will want to play. (0:21:48) Kevin: Well, oh, there we, okay. (0:21:49) Kevin: That’s one down. (0:21:50) Kevin: Let’s, let’s get another, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see. (0:21:53) Aislinn: I might be infuriated, I don’t know, but I’m also like, it’s a good type of infuriating (0:21:57) Kevin: Well, yeah, and that’s fine. (0:21:57) Aislinn: and that’s what this game looks like, so I’m into it. (0:22:01) Kevin: I’ve had the bad period on the show many, many times, possibly more than not. (0:22:07) Aislinn: It’d really be that way. (0:22:11) Kevin: All right, next up. (0:22:12) Kevin: Ooh, this is a good one. (0:22:14) Aislinn: You take the floor. (0:22:14) Kevin: I think they’d announced it. (0:22:16) Kevin: Yeah, I think they announced it during the game awards or no. (0:22:20) Kevin: Was that the jungle DLC? (0:22:21) Kevin: I feel like this was announced at some point, but if not, we got a full, (0:22:25) Kevin: uh, a more proper breakdown of Dave, the diver DLC can’t. (0:22:31) Kevin: Stop won’t stop. (0:22:32) Kevin: I mean, I mean, they’re made by the maple story desk, so they have (0:22:35) Kevin: the money to actually never stop. (0:22:37) Aislinn: Just keep going. (0:22:37) Kevin: Um, yeah, basically. (0:22:41) Kevin: Um, and so it is a, not that it is the second, um, crossover DLC this time (0:22:46) Kevin: with the like a dragon series, AKA previously known as the Yakuza series. (0:22:51) Kevin: Um, you are teaming up with itchy bond, um, and doing all sorts of shenanigans. (0:22:57) Kevin: Are you familiar with like a dragon at all? (0:22:59) Aislinn: I am like not I’ve never played the games, but like I am familiar and I remember when I heard about this (0:23:05) Aislinn: Because I heard about this like a while ago. I don’t remember how long it was long ago. It was but I was like, what? (0:23:10) Kevin: Yeah (0:23:10) Aislinn: I was like, how did the two these two worlds collide? I need to know how these two worlds collided. This is so cool (0:23:15) Kevin: Well (0:23:19) Kevin: It is and at the same time that feels appropriate for both franchises how on earth did this happen (0:23:25) Kevin: Um, I have never played one myself, but I am also familiar very familiar with the series (0:23:30) Kevin: so introduced we have (0:23:33) Kevin: Included in all these features. We have a genuine 2d beat ’em up side scroller where you can play as Ichiban and (0:23:41) Kevin: Cobra yeah, I think it plays Cobra Wow Oh Cobra’s playable. I didn’t catch that. That’s so cool (0:23:47) Kevin: There is a karaoke minigame because if nothing else what if that was included how could this be called like a dragon? (0:23:56) Kevin: We have let’s see what else here (0:23:59) Kevin: We’ve got we got several characters from the like a dragon series as staff members for your restaurant. It’s fun (0:24:07) Aislinn: I like that there seems to be the karaoke minigame. I feel like that fear feels very, like, Yakuza-esque. (0:24:08) Kevin: Ah, junk. (0:24:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:24:15) Kevin: Oh, yeah, it is. (0:24:17) Kevin: Um, yeah, that land that launches, uh, April 10th, not terribly far away, about two weeks away. (0:24:26) Kevin: Um, so there, there will probably be a return to David diver sometime in the future. (0:24:32) Kevin: Uh, because I’m playing this. (0:24:34) Kevin: Absolutely. (0:24:36) Kevin: Um, that looks great. (0:24:36) Aislinn: It looks great, it really does look great. (0:24:40) Kevin: So I keep an eye out and then the jungle DLC is still being worked on and coming in the future. (0:24:45) Kevin: So again, can’t stop, won’t stop. (0:24:49) Kevin: Um, Dave keeps diving and doing everyone’s work. (0:24:52) Kevin: Um, all right, let’s see next up. (0:24:55) Kevin: Another series that has not yet stopped as of now. (0:24:58) Kevin: Uh, we’ve got story of seasons or I guess this one is like harvest moon proper because it’s, it’s in Japanese as of now, um, a harvest moon G mode game. (0:25:10) Kevin: Um, it, it is a port of a phone game from, what was it like 2008, I think on the harvest moon series. (0:25:16) Aislinn: Yes, it says 2008 on the Steam page, and yeah, it’s a port coming to Steam, but… (0:25:21) Kevin: Yup. (0:25:22) Kevin: Yup. (0:25:23) Kevin: So it’s a early mobile farming game and you know, that’s, that’s cool. (0:25:27) Kevin: You can see it, you can feel it kind of GBA S graphics, um, which is fun and cute. (0:25:34) Kevin: Um, you know, too bad it’s all in Japanese. (0:25:36) Aislinn: I, you know, cause I’ve been telling myself for the past like couple weeks, like I really (0:25:36) Kevin: So, this one I won’t be playing, probably. (0:25:45) Aislinn: should actively get back into learning Japanese. Cause I was learning Japanese at one point (0:25:50) Aislinn: when I was in like first grade and then I fell off cause I was a stubborn kid, long (0:25:54) Kevin: Hmm. Okay. (laughs) (0:25:55) Aislinn: story short, but like, I don’t know. Maybe if I get back into actually learning properly, (0:26:00) Aislinn: maybe I’ll pick up this game. It looks cute, but I don’t know anything about it because (0:26:02) Kevin: yeah it does (0:26:06) Kevin: yeah we can’t read a thing on it we just (0:26:10) Kevin: it’s all I can do is point and says that looks like a harvest moon game for a (0:26:14) Aislinn: I was like, “That’s a cow! That’s chicken! That’s all I’ve got!” (0:26:14) Kevin: phone (0:26:18) Kevin: there are anime pretty people that you can probably romance (0:26:22) Kevin: yeah uh… (0:26:24) Kevin: but uh… (0:26:26) Kevin: yeah uh… releasing on steam do we have a date for that (0:26:29) Kevin: And it’s coming soon. Yeah. (0:26:30) Aislinn: As of now, we do not have a date, but regardless, if you are interested in this and you can (0:26:33) Kevin: But yeah, we, yeah. (0:26:36) Aislinn: read Japanese, even if you can’t read Japanese and you are interested in it, it is coming soon! (0:26:41) Kevin: Oh man, go back to those early 2000s when you have the fan translation from GameFacts. (0:26:47) Kevin: Good times. (0:26:50) Kevin: But but yeah, you know, one thing to note, this is a second port that they’ve done in the series, (0:26:55) Kevin: which is interesting to me, suggesting that the first one was successful enough to warrant it. (0:27:00) Aislinn: I guess so. (0:27:01) Kevin: That’s pretty cool. (0:27:02) Aislinn: I’m glad. (0:27:02) Kevin: Yeah, I know nothing either. I should’ve picked up Japanese. I’m too big of a weeb not to. (0:27:03) Aislinn: I’m glad for the people that do care about this. (0:27:05) Aislinn: I know nothing about it, but I am happy for those that care about it. (0:27:12) Kevin: I mean, I know some Japanese words. I want to make them echo the journey one day, but in due time I guess. (0:27:20) Kevin: Alright, let’s see here. Next up we’ve got info on cattle country. Yes, not Kent County. Country bigger than that. (0:27:30) Kevin: We have got (0:27:33) Kevin: They say so what interesting thing (0:27:37) Kevin: The thing probably the biggest note is, you know, they’re talking about some features and whatnot, but combat is totally optional (0:27:44) Kevin: Which is kind of wild to see in these games right cuz (0:27:48) Kevin: You know most cottagecore games following the stardew template (0:27:53) Kevin: How you know have some kind of? (0:27:56) Kevin: combat stuck in there, right (0:27:58) Kevin: And it’s you know, just because it’s optional. It’s not bad here. I’m looking that you got bows and arrows (0:28:02) Kevin: And guns and all sorts of stuff (0:28:05) Kevin: But the fact that it’s optional and they’re advertising that that’s uh, that’s pretty fun (0:28:10) Aislinn: I think it’s great yeah I i don’t know why that would put that would it’s a great it’s (0:28:15) Aislinn: it’s a great thing honestly like I have nothing else to say besides like this is something that (0:28:19) Aislinn: is a great feature because if you want to do it you can do it if you don’t want to (0:28:22) Aislinn: you just ignore it’s a win-win (0:28:24) Kevin: Yup. Yup. This is another game where it looks like you can partner up with some of your neighbors or villagers and whatnot, so that’s, that’s fun. (0:28:32) Kevin: There’s, yeah, I think we’ve talked about it before, but there’s, if you look at the trailer, there’s square dancing. They’re playing a nice Western medley song. (0:28:40) Kevin: Um, you’re, it’s very, how, it’s, it’s HANU. Um, that’s what it is. We got state coaches, we got trains, all the good stuff. (0:28:40) Aislinn: Very, it’s definitely very howdy partner. (0:28:52) Kevin: Um, they’re good at ge– (0:28:54) Kevin: Hey, howdy, hey, get your snake in your boot and keep an eye out for cattle count–country. (0:28:57) Aislinn: I mean, there’s even a character named Bandit, so take that as you will. (0:29:00) Kevin: Um, again, I don’t– (0:29:02) Kevin: Yeah, there you go! Eyes required. (0:29:07) Kevin: Alright, next up, a new game, we’ve got, uh, okay. (0:29:10) Kevin: So I started looking at this, and, you know, pre-recording, you know, going over, preparing, whatnot. (0:29:15) Kevin: And I stopped because I just kept saying, “What is this?” I needed to– (0:29:20) Kevin: to put some of that energy into the recording. (0:29:24) Kevin: We are looking at a game called “Fungi’s Swarm.” (0:29:24) Aislinn: It’s so silly. (0:29:28) Kevin: Um, so, you know, G-U-Y-S, “Sworn.” (0:29:32) Kevin: Um, it is a bullet hell game. (0:29:36) Kevin: Um, it is their first dev, uh, like, dev blog. (0:29:41) Kevin: Um, and they are showing it’s– (0:29:44) Kevin: Kinda what the whole thing, right? It is a cartoony, survivor bullet hell, where you become a fungi, (0:29:49) Kevin: wield forest-crafted weapons and unleash bonkers powers against the fire killer. (0:29:54) Kevin: So you there’s a lot going on here. There’s a mushroom guy running around. There’s pumpkin vegetable monsters and bears and like vegetables. I don’t an apple bear and an apple. (0:30:08) Aislinn: There’s a there’s an easter egg for from Coral Island of a waterfowl and it’s the cutest thing I’ve ever seen (0:30:14) Kevin: What I didn’t see that’s incredible. That’s incredible. (0:30:20) Kevin: incredible you’re running around is your little fungus guy with (0:30:24) Kevin: giant watermelon acts like the waterman slice is bigger than you are (0:30:27) Kevin: it’s enormous there’s a great blaster gun thing you’ve got the powers like oh (0:30:34) Kevin: oh yeah that’s uh this is some good stuff there’s what is going on with this (0:30:40) Kevin: apple teeny it’s a half-eaten apple with a warm a very buff warm popping out of (0:30:45) Kevin: it you know there’s runs it’s oh it’s colorful it’s wacky it’s cartoony it’s (0:30:54) Kevin: magnificent I don’t what are these little for sanctuary pals you got like (0:30:58) Kevin: buzz balls with fruit stems there’s all block (0:31:00) Aislinn: I have no, not a single clue, but it looks like, it looks cute and fun, cozy and fun. (0:31:08) Kevin: yep yep (0:31:08) Aislinn: It looks like it’s a good balance of that, I feel like. (0:31:11) Aislinn: I feel like it does somehow fit into the Cottagecore game. (0:31:14) Aislinn: It just, it just somehow does fit, yes it is like a bullet hell game, but it still feels, (0:31:20) Aislinn: it feels like it’s going to be accessible enough to fall into the category of Cottagecore. (0:31:20) Kevin: Oh, yeah for sure. Um, it’s certainly caught my eye (0:31:27) Kevin: Obviously, we’re gonna be a ways off from this bad boy coming out, but I’m definitely keeping my out that is again fun guys swarm (0:31:35) Kevin: They’re good on you a lot of good news stories this week. Nothing. Nothing. Give me any heartache or anything (0:31:38) Aislinn: Honestly, yeah. (0:31:42) Kevin: That’s exciting stuff. Oh (0:31:45) Kevin: All right, and with that let’s talk about some let’s move on to something else exciting. Let’s talk about (0:31:50) Aislinn: Yeah. Oh my gosh. (0:31:50) Kevin: Wonder stuff, huh? (0:31:53) Kevin: Okay, so again, this is the tea shop simulator created by the Stanley parable dev team (0:32:01) Kevin: If you haven’t played Stanley parable (0:32:04) Kevin: You might want to pause go listen because I think we need to talk about it because that’s important for context (0:32:09) Kevin: and (0:32:10) Kevin: So important that acelin has actually played Stanley parable prior to the gay wonder stuff in preparation (0:32:17) Kevin: So let’s hear some thoughts (0:32:17) Aislinn: I did. Yeah, so I, yeah, once I found out that this game was being created by the people (0:32:25) Aislinn: that made Stanley Parable, I very much was like, I’ve always wanted to play Stanley Parable, (0:32:31) Aislinn: but I put that way up on my, I moved that way up for my backlog, because I knew and (0:32:35) Kevin: Uh-huh (0:32:37) Aislinn: I’ve heard great things about this game, which I think everyone knows about. If you haven’t (0:32:41) Aislinn: played the game, you still know the premise of the game and what the game is all about. (0:32:43) Kevin: John (0:32:44) Kevin: Yep for for (0:32:45) Aislinn: And I was very curious to check it out. (0:32:46) Kevin: Yeah for clarity. I have not played it myself, but as you said, I am very familiar (0:32:50) Kevin: I know all the secrets. I don’t feel free to let out whatever you want. Um, you just listener assume we’re spoiling whatever. Okay, it’s (0:32:53) Aislinn: Yeah, I played as many, spoiler warning for Stanley Parable, a very long time. (0:32:59) Kevin: Yes game that’s been out how long now (0:33:04) Aislinn: But the thing is, before I played Stanley Parable, I knew it was a strange game or a (0:33:08) Aislinn: very interesting game that a lot of people liked, but I didn’t know what the premise (0:33:11) Aislinn: of the game was. (0:33:12) Aislinn: So I went in pretty blind and it was an experience for sure. (0:33:17) Aislinn: It took me a while to get into because I was like, “What is happening?” (0:33:21) Kevin: Ha ha ha ha! (0:33:23) Aislinn: As I continued, I was like, “Okay, I’m starting to get it. (0:33:26) Aislinn: I’m starting to understand.” (0:33:27) Aislinn: And it was a very, very fun and fascinating and silly game. (0:33:33) Aislinn: And I did pretty much almost all of the endings except the ones like the, what was it, like (0:33:40) Aislinn: the baby one with like the dog and like the, you have to like stand up. (0:33:42) Kevin: Yeah, that’s correct. (0:33:44) Aislinn: You know that one, that one ending, we have to like be in the game for like three hours (0:33:47) Aislinn: or something. (0:33:49) Aislinn: I refused to do that one. (0:33:49) Kevin: Yeah, that’s correct. (0:33:50) Aislinn: I just watched it on YouTube. (0:33:51) Aislinn: I was like, “There’s no way I’m doing this.” (0:33:54) Aislinn: But just like that absurdity and like that confusion, I’m just like, “Yeah, no. (0:33:59) Aislinn: Okay. (0:33:59) Aislinn: I understand why people like this game now. (0:34:01) Aislinn: Like I have not experienced this in a game in a very, very, very long time.” (0:34:05) Aislinn: And it just took twists and turns and I was like, “Huh.” (0:34:09) Aislinn: And I was happy that I got to experience that before playing this game. (0:34:13) Aislinn: Cause I was curious if they were going to do things in this game that also (0:34:16) Aislinn: kind of caught me off guard and surprised me and that definitely did happen. (0:34:18) Kevin: All right, yep. (0:34:23) Aislinn: As a general notice, we’re not going to spoil like main plots of the game. (0:34:30) Aislinn: We may talk about a little bit of hint towards a little couple of things here (0:34:33) Aislinn: and there, but we’ll try our best to not spoil the game because both of us are (0:34:37) Aislinn: just about at the same point in the story and we both kind of share the sentiment (0:34:40) Aislinn: that we want y’all to check out the game and experience the not absurdity, but (0:34:47) Aislinn: just like the twists and turns of the game that also surprised me. (0:34:49) Kevin: Yep. (0:34:53) Aislinn: I was playing Wanderstop as I continued into it. (0:34:55) Kevin: Uh-huh. (0:34:56) Aislinn: Like it took me a while to get into Stanley Parable. (0:34:57) Aislinn: It took me a while to get into Wanderstop. (0:34:59) Aislinn: And as I continue, I was like start, I felt the same feeling that I felt when I (0:34:59) Kevin: Yeah. (0:35:03) Aislinn: was playing Wanderstop versus when I was playing Stanley Parable, but in just (0:35:04) Kevin: So. (0:35:07) Kevin: Mm-hmm. (0:35:08) Kevin: Right. (0:35:09) Kevin: Okay, so. (0:35:11) Kevin: Again, if someone who- so, that’s all great. (0:35:13) Kevin: And I appreciate you played it, ‘cause at least one of us can speak to it, but, um… (0:35:15) Aislinn: Well, you know about it too, you know. (0:35:19) Kevin: And so. (0:35:21) Kevin: Like. (0:35:22) Kevin: Maybe I don’t fully have heard everything, but the tone of Stanley Parable is almost… (0:35:29) Kevin: It’s very absurdist, very- almost adversarial in times, right? (0:35:32) Kevin: Like the narrator is constantly fighting against you, or you’re being sent down roads that are unpleasant, or so on and so forth, right? (0:35:39) Kevin: Like, it’s an enjoyable experience and a lot of fun, don’t get me, like, clearly, but… (0:35:45) Kevin: It is a very different vibe from a Cottagecore game, right? (0:35:49) Aislinn: Yes, very much so. (0:35:49) Kevin: So, when you- (0:35:51) Kevin: Right? (0:35:52) Kevin: And so when you hear they’re doing this- a tea shop simil- and they’re, you know, outright saying it’s gonna be a cozy game, like… (0:36:00) Kevin: What am I- what am I gonna do? I’m- I’m on guard, like, you’re the Stanley Parable people. (0:36:02) Aislinn: I know! (0:36:04) Kevin: I don’t believe a word you say, I am- (0:36:06) Aislinn: It literally says on the Steam page, “From the creator of the Stanley Parable.” (0:36:11) Aislinn: It’s the first line! (0:36:11) Kevin: Yep, so. (0:36:12) Kevin: Yup. (0:36:13) Kevin: So, I’m, you know, I’m coming into Wanderstop armed with a knife, just ready to fight back whatever this game’s- (0:36:19) Kevin: he’s gonna throw at me, right? (0:36:21) Kevin: Um… (0:36:22) Kevin: And, um… (0:36:24) Kevin: Well, I mean, shocker, it’s not the Stanley Parable, right? Like, some things carry over, like, it’s quality-quality writing. (0:36:31) Kevin: Excellent writing throughout, absolutely. (0:36:33) Kevin: There are some twists and turns, but it’s- it’s not in the insane, zany Stanley Parable way, it’s- it’s all, you know, in a narrative structure that- that fits it and whatnot. (0:36:46) Kevin: Um… (0:36:47) Kevin: I can confirm. (0:36:49) Kevin: I would call this a cozy game, but it’s a cozy game that sometimes pulls out a knife on you because sometimes I’m not ready for it. (0:36:54) Aislinn: Yes. (0:36:59) Aislinn: Yes. (0:37:00) Aislinn: Yes. (0:37:02) Kevin: I’ll get to that in a second, but the point being, there’s no secret endings, there’s no crazy insane tasks. (0:37:13) Kevin: And I tried, like one of the first things I did, like when you start the game you can run back into the force. I ran into the force like ten times. (0:37:19) Kevin: I was expecting something and nothing happened. I looked it up and there’s nothing, no insane hidden things like Stanley Parable, right? (0:37:30) Kevin: There’s some stuff, but nothing just completely insane. (0:37:36) Kevin: So yeah, it’s wild to see that they’re actually playing it straight. We’re getting a “cozy game”. (0:37:44) Kevin: So with that in mind, let’s talk about the premise, because I say (0:37:49) Kevin: “cozy” but there’s a big asterisk here because it is possibly one of the most “uncozy” openings to any game ever. (0:37:52) Aislinn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:37:57) Aislinn: But I loved it. I genuinely loved it. (0:37:57) Kevin: And yes, yep. So this is, and you’re not an avatar, you’re not a Stanley, a blankly avatar more or less, you are playing a character named Alta. (0:38:09) Kevin: She is a fighter, a warrior, goes into tournaments. The story starts with her description of her wanting to be the best. (0:38:18) Kevin: she’s undefeated for like three. (0:38:19) Kevin: and she just totally off her game so what does she do she seeks out help she (0:38:21) Aislinn: Very, very long time, but yeah. (0:38:45) Kevin: He seeks out Master Winters, a legendary warrior. (0:38:49) Kevin: Who she thinks can help her get a groove back. (0:38:52) Kevin: So, Alta runs through the forest, but then at some point, her body starts to fail her. (0:38:59) Kevin: She collapses, and she wakes up in this clearing in the forest, in front of a tea shop called “Wanderstup”. (0:39:06) Kevin: She meets the proprietor, a man named Boro, who is a fantastic… (0:39:10) Aislinn: Oh, he’s wonderful. I love him. (0:39:13) Kevin: He is the complete, I would say foil, like opposite foil to Alta. (0:39:16) Aislinn: Yeah. (0:39:17) Kevin: She is the most chills (0:39:19) Kevin: Zen just goes with the flow kind of guy. He’s happy. Good luck. He always cracking jokes and whatnot. Um (0:39:24) Aislinn: So sweet (0:39:26) Kevin: He’s a wonderful man. Um, he is the one who rescued Alta (0:39:30) Kevin: explains where she is and (0:39:33) Kevin: and basically suggests for her to take a break because (0:39:38) Kevin: One of the first thing she does is try to pick her her sword and she can’t (0:39:41) Kevin: Why meanwhile borrow can pick it up. No problem. And it’s just something (0:39:46) Kevin: Something going on with Arthur. She can’t fight. She can’t… (0:39:49) Kevin: She can’t lift her. (0:39:50) Kevin: if you run back into the forest like I did you just collapse and are sent back to the clearing so (0:39:54) Aislinn: I did too for context. I also did the same thing as you, because I was like, I just need to know. (0:39:57) Kevin: Yeah (0:39:59) Kevin: Yeah, it’s though it would be that (0:40:00) Aislinn: Especially again, coming off of Stanley Parable, I was like, I just need to know. (0:40:02) Kevin: it (0:40:04) Kevin: It would be the most Stanley peril thing in the world right the run out you get it ending (0:40:08) Kevin: like absolutely, so (0:40:10) Kevin: So yeah, so that um so with you know after repeated attempts if you do or you just give up (0:40:17) Kevin: Boro suggests to Ulta to just stay there (0:40:20) Kevin: and the tea shop to help out to try to rest and recover (0:40:23) Kevin: because she’s clearly suffering from over exhaustion. (0:40:27) Kevin: And and so that and already at this very 10 minute initial premise, (0:40:33) Kevin: the game is is is going at me like directly targeting me bullseye because. (0:40:39) Kevin: So, OK, you are a hard worker. (0:40:42) Kevin: You probably relate to this. (0:40:44) Kevin: I think a lot of people from our generation, how we were raised, like, (0:40:48) Kevin: you know, we a lot of people, (0:40:50) Kevin: we’re raising the very drive, like driven generation, right? (0:40:54) Kevin: Work hard, work hard, succeed, go to the next thing, right? (0:40:56) Aislinn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (0:40:57) Kevin: Be the top, be first in class, right? (0:40:59) Kevin: And and I personally like my I was in the warrior, (0:41:02) Kevin: but like I graduated salutatorian in high school. (0:41:05) Kevin: Like my academic pursuits were like everything to me. (0:41:08) Aislinn: Mm-hmm. (0:41:10) Kevin: So I can relate to that very much so. (0:41:13) Kevin: And then there comes a point when life just punches you in the face (0:41:17) Kevin: And you, you know, you just, you’re, you’re knocked out a few. (0:41:20) Kevin: Notches. So I get this and I’m already very not comfortable with how personal this story has gotten. (0:41:26) Aislinn: Yeah, yeah, I really felt the anger that Alta was feeling in the beginning, not to the fullest extent, because I’m just generally not a very like angry person. But like, what, like the underlying emotions of that anger, I genuinely felt because I definitely also feel that in the sense that as a person that considers myself very hardworking as well, to be working so hard, and then to be knocked down like that, it really, really, really sucks. I get that. (0:41:34) Kevin: Yeah. Right. (0:41:54) Kevin: Yep (0:41:56) Aislinn: I definitely really felt for her right off the bat. Like immediately, I was like, Oh, this is one of those games. Oh, no, my heart. I was like, Oh, no, they really did. (0:42:00) Kevin: Yeah (0:42:04) Kevin: Yup (0:42:10) Kevin: Yup, yup. Yup. They have set the stage (0:42:15) Kevin: and and and again in right there in contrast with Boro a wonderful truly cozy character and then also the most (0:42:24) Kevin: I have possibly seen in a cottage core game (0:42:28) Kevin: But (0:42:30) Kevin: Like for me that one of the bits that really resonated is just running through the forest right getting back up going back (0:42:36) Kevin: Like I relate to that very much so to to maybe not on well (0:42:42) Kevin: Okay, I’ll say someone on the healthy levels, but or it’s let’s say it’s affected me right like I’ve definitely (0:42:47) Aislinn: We all go through it. We’re human. We all go through it. (0:42:48) Kevin: Right, right. Yeah (0:42:51) Kevin: Um, and so being forced to stop. (0:42:54) Kevin: That out of your control, that’s something I wouldn’t handle. (0:42:57) Kevin: Well, I&am

Summary This episode of "Coping" centers on the idea of 'Blue Christmas,' exploring how the holiday season can be both joyful and sorrowful for many people. Kathy and Kevin discuss how grief and joy can coexist during the holidays, particularly for those experiencing loss or major life changes. Kevin shares a personal experience from 2020 working as a bedside chaplain during Covid, while Kathy discusses her preference for Thanksgiving over Christmas due to its focus on gratitude. The conversation includes recommendations for grief support resources, specifically mentioning David Kessler's holiday grief support and Grief Share's 'Surviving the Holidays' program. The episode concludes with a suggested ritual of hanging a blue ornament and shares Jan Richardson's 'Blessing for the Brokenhearted' poem. Highlights Introduction to Blue Christmas Concept The hosts introduce the concept of 'Blue Christmas,' acknowledging that while the holiday season is typically portrayed as joyful, it can be a time of deep sorrow for many. Speaker0 emphasizes that it's acceptable to feel both joy and sadness during the holidays, whether due to recent loss or general struggles. Personal Experiences with Blue Christmas Kevin shares his significant Blue Christmas experience from 2020 while working as a hospital chaplain during Covid, feeling disconnected from the holiday spirit. Kathy reflects on her preference for Thanksgiving over Christmas, noting how commercialization has affected the holiday's meaning. Support Resources and Coping Strategies The hosts discuss two major grief support resources: David Kessler's holiday grief support sessions and Grief Share's 'Surviving the Holidays' program. Kathy shares a success story about someone who found community through Grief Share, even leading to social activities like cruises with fellow group members. Closing Ritual and Poetic Reflection The episode concludes with Kevin suggesting a ritual of hanging a blue ornament on the Christmas tree to acknowledge sadness during the holidays. The hosts share Jan Richardson's 'Blessing for the Brokenhearted' poem, which explores themes of love, grief, and resilience. Kevin Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of "Coping". Today we're going to center around a powerful theme that speaks to many during this time of year. Kathy Yes, today we're going to be talking about the idea of a blue Christmas, and this acknowledges that while the holiday season is often portrayed as joyful and celebratory, for many it's a time of deep sorrow, reflection, and longing. Kevin All right, let's get started. Kevin So this concept of a blue Christmas reminds us that it's okay not to feel cheerful during the holidays, whether you've experienced a recent loss or a major life change this last year, or you just simply find yourself struggling. The idea of blue Christmas creates space for all of those feelings to exist without judgment. And I would even say to coexist that you can feel both joy and sadness in this time of year. What do you think about that, Kathy? Kathy Yes. I think that we often associate it with Elvis Presley's famous song, but the significance of this of course goes deeper and is felt more strongly depending on what your circumstances are. Churches and communities sometimes hold blue Christmas services as a way to honor grief and create a sacred space for those who need it. Kevin Yeah, and you know, whether you are part of a faith community or have your own faith practices at home, these types of rituals often feature quiet reflection, soft lighting, and even specific practices that can validate feelings of sadness, but are intended to offer some hope and comfort in that sense of community and in those rituals that are offered. And again, they just remind us that grief and joy can coexist. And I think this is an often misconception of grief in general, that the experience of grief happens only one stage at a time, it's like it's a linear experience. And those of you that have been through grief know that the reality is you can feel many emotions within one day and within one moment even. And so this time of year can bring up all of those emotions, perhaps not just joy, perhaps not just sadness, but a good mix of both. Kathy You know, we talk about a season that's supposed to be merry and bright. But like you mentioned, sometimes there's a mix of different things that occur in happy or celebratory times for us. It's that bittersweet that we talk about. Have you ever had a blue Christmas? Kevin That's such a good question. I don't think that there is one year in particular that was more blue than others. Well, you know, actually, now that I think of it, I think 2020 is perhaps the pinnacle blue Christmas for me. Kathy Sure, sure. Kevin At that time, I was working as a bedside chaplain at a hospital that was overrun with Covid, like many were. And it was the first year that I felt like it wasn't Christmas, that the season really had no meaning. And I felt disconnected from some of the decorations I saw up and around, some of the attire that folks were wearing, like Christmas hats and red. It just felt so far from the reality of what I was experiencing each day that I didn't know how to feel merry and bright and filled with joy and celebration in that year. And so I think that was the year that was a blue Christmas because it was like a non-existent Christmas. The spirit of the season was just so absent for me. What about for you? Kathy I don't know if I could think of an actual blue Christmas, but there have definitely been Christmases that have been hard and heavy for certain, where it didn't feel like that everything, it didn't match the moment of what the season is supposed to be. But I mean, I think the truth of the true story of Christmas is also the same. We just have commercialized it to, with the Hallmark movies and all of the trappings of Christmas, especially here in this country, which is why it's not my favorite holiday, admittedly. It's why I like Thanksgiving because it's back to the --Thanksgiving focuses more on gratitude and family and meaningful things. And so-- Kevin You bring up such a great point about how, you know, if you're listening today and you don't have a specific loss that you've had this year or perhaps you can't even think of a major loss in your life, a blue Christmas can still be an experience that you're you're having and it may just be all of those little losses that we carry with us in our lives and the hardships that shape us through year after year and perhaps you're not even sure why you feel a little bit of that tinge of sadness and the invitation from this idea of blue Christmas isn't to to invite all of those authentic feelings that you're feeling this time of year and allow whatever color your spirit is right now that it's okay to feel those feelings in the midst of seeing decorations go up and celebrations go up that we each have to create space for that blue or create space for whatever other color our spirit is this season Kathy Yes, exactly. And there are some wonderful resources that can help guide us through the process of navigating grief through the holidays. The first resource we'd like to highlight is Holiday Grief Support with David Kessler. And some of you may know David is one of the world's foremost experts on grief. His free holiday sessions offer practical strategies to help you honor your loved ones and find meaning during this challenging time. Kevin So, David Kessler is a resource that we reference a lot here on this podcast, and I think what's really special about David's work and his approach is that he focuses on finding a balance between grief that is real and present, but also the season that calls for celebration. And he talks about creating new traditions that can honor the past while also embracing the present and still what is to come. And so I just endorse this holiday grief support group and resources that David Kessler and his team offers. And there's a second resource that is also really beneficial any time of year, but especially now. There's a grief support group called Grief Share, and they have a specific gathering and resources called Surviving the Holidays. Again, recognizing this idea that the holidays can be merry and bright, but also filled with sadness. And so their program offers workshops. They also have some specifically designed steps that you can take, strategies to navigate all of the complexities of the season and all the emotions that come. Kathy Yes, I've known quite a few people who have benefited from Grief Share in our community. Two of the things that -- two of their offerings that are particularly important: one is that they do offer seasonal holiday "coping with the holiday" type workshops, which I think is the importance of planning ahead for when you might be missing your loved one or you're facing a loss, whatever that may be. And then the second thing about Grief Share is that they exist with ongoing groups. And I personally know someone who lost their wife and grief share literally saved his life because he's able to connect with this community. Last I heard he was going on a cruise with his Grief Share people. So it just really was a place for him to find connection and hope again. So we highly recommend Grief Share. Kevin And before we close today, we have a little bit of a homework assignment for you all. If you want to create space for a blue Christmas, I want to encourage you to hang a blue ornament on your Christmas tree somewhere. Whether it's front and center, whether it's off to the side, or just in the background that's at the top or towards the bottom, you find wherever the placement feels right. We want this ritual of hanging a blue ornament to symbolize you creating space for sadness this time of year. Kathy Before we close, we want to share a beautiful reflection that ties into the theme of A Blue Christmas. It's Jan Richardson's "Blessing for the Broken-Hearted" poem, which offers a powerful message about the resilience of love and grief. Kevin "A Blessing for the Broken-Hearted: by Jan Richardson. Let us agree for now that we will not say the breaking makes us stronger, or that it is better to have this pain than to have done without this love. Let us promise we will not tell ourselves time will heal the wound when every day our waking opens it anew. Perhaps, for now, it can be enough to simply marvel at the mystery of how a heart so broken can go on beating, as if it were made for precisely this, as if it knows the only cure for love is more of it, as if it sees the heart's sole remedy for breaking is to love still, as if it trusts that its own persistent pulse is the rhythm of a blessing we cannot begin to fathom, but will save us nonetheless. Amen.

Summary This episode of “Coping” discusses the concept of courage and introduces seven daily acts of courage as outlined by Robert Staub in his TED Talk. Kevin and Kathy engage in a thoughtful dialogue exploring each of the seven acts and share personal experiences and insights on how these acts manifest in their lives as well as the importance of practicing courage daily. At the end, you'll be given the opportunity to rate yourself on each act of courage to determine your overall 'courage quotient'. Kevin Oh, hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of “Coping”. Kathy Yes, welcome back, everyone. Today, we want to continue our discussion on courage that we started our last podcast. And I have a question for you, Kevin: would you consider yourself a courageous person? Kevin Well, based on our last podcast episode conversation, I've been rethinking my definition of courage, the models and myths that I've developed over the years. I would say that I am a risk taker. I like to take risks, I like that feeling of taking a leap of faith, and then that leap being met with some success or improvement. So I don't know if I would say I'm courageous, but I definitely am open to taking calculated risks. And what about you? Do you consider yourself to be a courageous person? Kathy I think the same applies to if I consider myself to be a creative person. The answer is traditionally no. But I think that if I look into my life, I see lots of acts of courage and risk-taking. So others would say that about me. So I think this discussion today is really going to widen and round out our view of what courage looks like. So let's get started. Kathy So as you all know, in a recent spring retreat, I shared about this topic of courage. And I also introduced executive leadership coach speaker Robert Staub, who did a 2016 TED Talk called Daily Acts of Courage. And there he talks about how we can practice small acts every day to strengthen the courage of our hearts. It's such an interesting concept. And there are actually seven everyday acts of courage we can all engage in every single day to build up our courage. Kathy So the first act of courage is the courage to dream and express it. Do you have visions, goals, and dreams, Kevin? How's that for you? Kevin Yes, ever since a young age, I was a dreamer, had big plans for my life, envisioned my goals and went after them. I would say I erred on the side of dreaming and didn't always have a plan to accomplish those dreams and goals. In our relationship, I'm definitely the dreamer, but you're the person that helps make those dreams and goals become a reality. So that's why I think we partner well together. What about you? How do you express your dreaming and goal setting in your life, knowing that you're a very practical person? Kathy So I would say, and I often say to students, it's okay not to be a dreamer, not to have a dream, but what happens though is that we do have to have a plan for our lives moving forward. And if you look into my life, you see lots of dreaming, lots of ideas being carried out. There's two sources. We have to tap into the sources of where our dreaming can come from. For me, it has been my faith, where I actively am listening. That would be the number one source. And the second place is for the needs of those people I serve, I'm always dreaming for them. And that is how the dream comes true for me. I personally still to this day don't have any dreams, but if I dream for those that I'm helping and serving, there's lots. And I can then take steps toward that, courageous steps towards that. So it's very untraditional. Kevin Yeah, and I think that that leads us to the second act of courage, which is the courage to see current reality. This is something that I see you do particularly well, especially for the students that you work with. Do you have the ability to see the truth and not have blinders on? How do you have that unique and innate ability to see current reality? How do you do that? Kathy This is a really hard one, especially in light of how difficult our experiences are, the world around us, the reality, the harsh reality that we all are living in right now. I think first of all is that the ability to see reality is to admit truth to yourself, to be open to truth. I think it's a gift. I think discernment is a gift that we are given. So I've had that from a young age, the gift to see things as they are. But that doesn't mean that I wanted to always step into that. There was a period of time in my life where I shut my eyes to the harsh reality and I lived in a fantasy world and a dream-like state of like, oh, everyone's helpful, everyone's nice, everyone has my best interest at heart. Kathy I don't believe that any longer, sadly. But I know that now we live in a broken world, but we're here to help redeem the broken places. So that helps me to embrace the truth of things because only when we can see broken things as they are can we actually move in to try and come alongside to help fix, support, et cetera. Kevin Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Kathy And what about you? Do you feel like you have the ability to see truth without the blinders on? Kevin I've had to learn how to do this. I think the practice of seeing current reality and accepting it and not getting lost in the dream world like you said, is a practice I've developed in my work as a chaplain with other people, especially those who are sick and in pain in the hospital, getting new diagnoses. There's a sacredness and the ability to be present to somebody in their story and in their pain and not try to silver line their difficult and challenging experience. And so to support somebody who is struggling is the ability to see them and their pain and not trying to fix it. So I've, I've practiced that quite a lot in my work and gotten pretty good at it. Even though it doesn't come as naturally to me. Kathy Yes. To sit in the present reality with them, which is very bleak at times. Kevin Right. Right. Kathy And you know, that leads us to the third act of courage, the courage to confront. You know, truth has a lot to do with courage. So first we're talking about the truth of acknowledging reality. And then the second part is the courage to confront. And this one, as we know, is especially difficult. One I've had to work on over the years to be able to not only see the truth, but then confront it when necessary. I would say that I'm okay at doing it. I just know it's part of leadership now. And it's just one of those things, skills that you can have. It doesn't ever make it any easier, I would say, but I do have that skill now in my tool bag, but it's still really hard. How about you? Kevin Yeah, I think that when I think about confrontation it makes me a little bit nervous. I don't like hurting other people's feelings. I care way too much about what people think about me, how they perceive me, and I want everybody to like me. And so confrontation is a hard practice when you care a lot about those things and for me a little bit too much about those things. But I've learned in my life that the most meaningful relationships, the most meaningful experiences, are the ones where I'm willing to speak the truth, to tell the truth to somebody, to endure confrontation, and to face things head-on. And so I don't like to be the one to initiate the confrontation, but if somebody has something they want to tell me about that I've done, something that I did or said and wasn't aware of, I want somebody to point it out to me because I don't want to be, you know, hurting other people's feelings or to be doing something that I haven't given a lot of thought to so, yeah, confrontation is hard, but I've I've learned that there can be some good that comes from healthy confrontation. Kathy Yes, that's actually the fourth act of courage that you're talking about. So the third one is the courage to confront and the fourth is the courage to be confronted. Kevin Yeah, I think I find this one to be much easier for me. What about for you? How do you feel about confronting and being confronted? Kathy Yeah, so again, I think both these areas have had to work on a lot as a two on the Enneagram -- helper -- I didn't like other people's perception of me and that was very hard. I was very sensitive as a young child to criticism, to people saying things. As I grew older I began to understand the value of standing up for truth. I am an advocate. So being able to confront others, but then also having to be confronted. It works both sides of the coin -- If we can confront we have to be able to be confronted. So it's hard But I would say again, it's something that I'm used to doing fairly often. I had someone do it this week about an experience that they had in one of our programs and they're like, "Oh, sorry to tell you this" and I was like, "No tell me. I really do want to hear because I desperately want to improve and for us to get better." Kevin Yeah, and that leaves us perfectly into our fifth act of courage and that's the courage to learn and to grow. And so like you just said, we're open to confrontation because you and I both share a value of always learning and always growing, being open to new ways of seeing things, new perspectives. We want to know those hard truths so that we can improve all of the ways of being in the world. Have you always been the kind of person courageous enough to always want to learn and grow? Kathy No, I'm not a risky person. I don't like change. I don't like risks. I don't like things changing, no. And I think that's surprising for people who see the outer view of me, because they're like, "You're always changing. You're always pivoting." And I'm like, yes, but I had to, again, step into that. And for me, it is faith. That's the core of it, that if I feel like it's a faith move, then I can step into learning and growing, because I know that my faith is empowering me and those around me. Kevin Yeah. It's so interesting to hear you say that you're not the kind of person that likes change and risk. I know that to be true about you, but I also see it as somebody that does want to always learn and always wants to grow and is always taking in new information, new perspectives and so I wonder if you could say a little bit more about how you wrestle with that tension in your own life. Kathy Yeah, I was gonna say that just like we talked in our last podcast about fear and courage existing in the same moment -- Is this the same, right? It's okay to not like risks. It's okay to not like change but know that all of the change and the growth and dreaming is necessary to move us forward to higher versions of ourselves, our callings our service and so if you're not wanting to do that. That's okay. I don't think I want to do it either. I would rather just stay home all day and watch my favorite Netflix shows and not take risks and not move forward. Yeah, like we all -- I want everyone to understand. like even people like us that you all see that are doing that, I personally, it's not my favorite. But again, it's about in the end you have to determine what kind of life do you want for yourself? If it's a life of stagnation or a life of growth and a life of growth involves work, investment, constant sowing and discipline. So whatever life you want, you know, if you want to live a courageous life, you have to put the work into it. So that's just the bottom line. You don't have to like it. I don't necessarily like it all the time, but I know that it's necessary. That's where the tension exists. Kevin So what's number six? What's the sixth act of courage? Kathy So you already mentioned this one, but this is one that's I think is really interesting. Staub says that the sixth act of courage -- courage is the ability to be vulnerable with others and living the truth of your story and also asking for help, being able to ask for help. You shared a little bit earlier about the vulnerable piece. What about you? Kevin Yeah, I love the correlation between living your truth but also asking for help. I have learned over the years that vulnerability comes naturally to those who have had a lot of hardship and challenges in their life. And so that pain is very present to me in all of my experiences, even when I'm having my most joyous moments, that sadness is lingering right there. When I'm sitting with people in their pain, I'm feeling my own resonance with that pain that they've had because of my own history of pain and loss. And so I think vulnerability is that ability to tap into my own experiences of pain and express some compassion for people who are experiencing that themselves. But true vulnerability is not suspended on its own. Kevin And so true vulnerability is coupled with good systems of support. When I'm just vulnerable, I'm just feeling pain and feeling the person's pain that I'm with. But the ability to show up courageously and to be vulnerable with somebody is recognizing that, yes, I do have my pain, but I'm also walking down a pathway of healing. And because I know that healing from that pain is possible, I can convey that to the person that I'm with. So vulnerability is not just a feeling. The courage of vulnerability is asking for help and having systems of support in place to support my pain so that I can support others who are in pain as well. Kathy It's interesting that you're talking about vulnerability isn't a feeling, it's an action because that leads us to the seventh act of courage, which is the courage to act. In the end, courage is not a word, it's not a feeling, it's not a label, it's an action. So if you have practiced the ability to step up and follow through in your life, then this is what he says: the seventh act of courage is the courage to act. Kevin And I love how each of the acts of courage build on one another and lead to action themselves. When we think about courageous people and how they're brave enough to make change in their lives, to take those leaps of faith, we can see it's not just one isolated decision, it's a series of decisions, a series of acts, if you will, that lead to even more action in their life. Kathy Yes, I love that he's built this bridge of courage for us in these seven acts, and they're so practical. I just have loved learning about this. And to sum up basically what we've done today, one of the quotes he says, he teaches, "small daily acts of courage can develop the cardiovascular system of your soul". Small daily acts of courage can develop the cardiovascular system of your soul. So I wonder today, how is your soul doing with regards to courage? We thought we would help you figure out your courage quotient today. Kathy We're going to review the seven acts. And what I would like you to do now, if you'd like to join us, you would grab a piece of paper. I'll let you do that. While you're grabbing your piece of paper, you want to number from one to seven. The one to seven is going to represent the seven daily acts of courage that we just talked about. So you're numbering your paper one to seven and then here's what we're going to do. When we talk about each act, I want you to think about on a scale of one to seven, one being the weakest, seven being the strongest, you're going to rate yourself to find your courage quotient. Kevin Number one, do you have vision, goals, and dreams? Then you may have the first act of courage, the courage to dream and to express it. Kathy So go ahead and rate yourself on the courage to dream. Kevin Number two, do you have the ability to see truth and not have blinders on? Then you may have the second act of courage, the courage to see reality. Kathy Rate yourself from one to seven on the ability to see truth. Kevin Number three, do you have the ability to speak up, speak truth to power and confront? Perhaps you have the third act of courage, the courage to confront. Kathy What's your score on the courage to confront? Write it down. Kevin Number four, maybe you are able to take critique and constructive criticism well. Then you may have the fourth act of courage, the courage to be confronted. Kathy Rate yourself on how well you can be confronted. Kevin Number five, are you able to step into the unknown and take risks? Then maybe you're able to exercise the fifth act of courage, the courage to learn and grow. Kathy How do you score on stepping into the unknown and taking risks? Kevin Number six, perhaps you have the ability to be vulnerable with others, tell the truth of your story, and also ask for help. This exercise is the sixth act of courage, the courage to be vulnerable. Kathy Rate your vulnerability score now. Kevin And number seven, maybe you have practiced the ability to step up and follow through. Then you are exercising the seventh act of courage, the courage to act. Kathy Rate your score for the seventh act of courage, the courage to act. So good job, everyone. What's your overall courage quotient? As you score yourself, which act of courage came easiest for you? And which one do you need some work on this week? Thanks so much for joining us for another episode of "Coping" and whatever you may be coping with, blessings to you.

Opening music: Lou Black "Helping Hand" - City Of No Winters www.loublack.com Lou Black "Tear You Up" (featuring Flo Anito) - Lovely Ashes From The Broken Hearts Flo Anito "Uh Oh!" No Dustbunnies www.floanito.com Jann Klose "Walk Through The River" - Black Box www.jannklose.com Jann Klose "Song To The Siren" (Acoustic) Brother Sun "Love Is The Water" - s/t www.brothersun.com Greg Greenway "The Good Man" - 20,000 Versions Of The Sun www.greggreenway.com Cosy Sheridan "The Story Of Longing" - Eros www.cosysheridan.com **************** Kevin So "This Guitar" - S.O.U.L. (Speaking Of Universal Language) www.kevinso.com Sarah Pierce "I Wanna Go Home" - Blessed By The West www.sarahpierce.com Tim Grimm "I Don't Know This World" - The Little In-Between www.timgrimm.com John Coinman "Find That Girl" - www.johncoinman.com Liah Alonso "Found" - www.liahalonso.com Sarah McQuaid "What Are We Going To Do" - The St. Buryan Sessions www.sarahmcquaid.co.uk Tipps & Obermiller "Interrupting Tumbleweeds" - MacGuffin www.tippsandobermiller.com Mouths Of Babes "Jubilee" - World Brand New www.mouthsofbabesmusic.com ************************ ALBUM FOCUS: Christian Parker – Change Is Now: A Tribute To The Byrds http://www.christianparker.com "Full Circle" "Farther Along" "The Last Thing On My Mind" *************** Big Wreck "Weightless" - Pages www.bigwreckmusic.com Heavy Salad "Write To The Dead" - Long Wave https://www.facebook.com/heavysaladsounds/ Bobby Mahoney "Empty Passenger Seats" - Another Deadbeat Summmer - www.bobbymahoneymusic.com Pinhdar "Abysses" - A Sparkle On The Dark Water www.facebook.com/pinhdar Fischer-Z "A Plea" - Triptych www.facebook.com/fischerzmusic The Corps "Buried On Sunday" - Fractured Protocol www.thecorps2814.com Bjorn Felle Theory Of Mind" - Extreme Hazard Planet www.bjornfelle.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/radiocblue/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/radiocblue/support

Listen in as we team up with e-commerce maestro Kevin King to uncover some of his most closely guarded Amazon strategies and hacks, designed to both save you money and significantly boost your profits. In this first installment of a two-part series, Kevin generously shares insights from our new and latest version of the Freedom Ticket course, revealing the fundamentals of branding, product selection, and customer service—essential knowledge for any serious Amazon seller. Not only do we cover these basics, but we also tease some of Kevin's 'ninja' strategies, giving you a taste of the powerful tactics he discusses in the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind Program. Our conversation with Kevin continues as we tackle the world of Amazon PPC, emphasizing the crucial role of conversion rates in successful campaigns. We delve into the importance of understanding and optimizing your brand entity score and the innovative ways you can leverage tools like Amazon Comprehend within your Q&A sections to boost product rankings. The dialogue shifts to the evolving landscape of AI, examining its transformative effects on e-commerce. Kevin and I discuss how savvy sellers are utilizing AI tools to generate everything from compelling images to high-quality video content, and even crafting targeted ads with platforms like AdGen AI. Wrapping up this content-rich session, we focus on strategies to maximize conversions and enhance the overall customer experience on Amazon. Kevin shares practical tips on pricing strategies for attracting product reviews, the psychological impact of using an 'index image' to display product benefits, and the importance of establishing a unique guarantee that resonates with your audience. Moreover, Kevin illuminates the potential goldmine of including optional insurance charges in direct-to-consumer sales and the art of presentation in online retail. Tune in to hear how these tactics, along with high-quality visuals, can revolutionize your approach to online sales in the era of AI-driven e-commerce. Stay tuned for part 2! In episode 548 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Kevin discuss: 00:00 - Secret Amazon Hacks With Kevin King 04:41 - Helium 10 Elite Training Webinar Hacks 06:06 - Improving Amazon PPC and Brand Entity 09:41 - Maximizing Q&A for Keyword Ranking 13:53 - Answering Questions on Amazon for Ranking 17:03 - Maximizing Rewards With Business Credit Cards 21:38 - AI Tools for Amazon Sellers 26:05 - Maximizing Conversions With Product Indexing 26:49 - Maximizing Reviews With Dummy Listings 31:15 - Testing Guarantee Names With Helium 10 31:25 - Direct to Consumer $4 Insurance Strategy Transcript Bradley Sutton: Today is part one in a two-part series with Kevin King, who's gonna open up some of his top Amazon hacks and strategies with you guys for the first time in a while. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Bradley Sutton: Are you looking to learn how to sell on Amazon? The Freedom Ticket course made by Kevin King is one of the most popular courses ever created for Amazon sellers. It's got over 90 modules and 40 hours of detailed, step-by-step training to help get you started on your entrepreneurial journey. Now this course costs $997 but Helium 10 actually covers that cost of the course for any Helium 10 member. Find out why tens of thousands of students love this program by going to h10.me/freedom ticket. Don't forget that if you do sign up for a Helium 10 account, don't pay full price. Use our podcast discount code SSP10 to save 10% off for life. Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And every year, every two years, Kevin King comes on and opens up with our audience some of our best hacks. And now, for the first time ever, we're actually opening that up right here on the podcast. So we are going to go ahead and have a recap of some of Kevin's top strategies that he opened up with a live audience and let's see what you guys think. There are some killer ones here. This was supposed to only be an hour, so I thought I could fit into one episode, but hey, Kevin had too much fire, so we're actually splitting this up into two different episodes. Here's part one. Hope you guys enjoy it. Bradley Sutton: We're going to be revealing some things that a lot of Amazon sellers maybe have never even heard of, and these are things that are designed to help you save money and make money. Two of the things that maybe is the reason why you're even in this Amazon game in the first place right. Now, something that's important, though we're going to be talking about hacks, if you want to call them that, or kind of ninja strategies you see that little ninja logo on the bottom right there but selling on Amazon is not just about knowing the latest hacks and tricks. These definitely can help but remember, we are not trying to take away from the very valid point that you have to know about branding, how to pick products, how to do keyword research, how to do your accounting, advertising, customer service. The fundamentals are still very important and so we've got the Freedom Ticket Program if you guys are interested in that. So some of you might, after watching this, be like, wow, you know what? I am not of this level yet. And don't worry, you're still going to be able to get value out of this regardless of the level you are. But if you're like man, a lot of this stuff is over my head. He's using terminology I haven't heard of. Freedom Ticket Program might be for you. That is something that beginners all the way to advanced sellers can take as a refresher course on the fundamentals of Amazon and we have a brand new one - brand new version first time in over two years. The fourth version of Freedom Ticket is coming out imminently, just in a couple of weeks. So make sure to stay tuned for that. Anybody who is already a Helium 10 member, you guys will be able to get access to that. Bradley Sutton: Now, I mentioned that Kevin is one of the main trainers of our Helium 10 Elite Mastermind Program-that's the one that I've been a part of since, way before I even worked at Helium 10 and probably the most popular thing that's part of this mastermind is every month, Kevin gives his ninja hacks. He gives like usually seven ninja hacks, and these are quick, actionable nuggets of knowledge that can help you immensely in your Amazon business. I think a lot of these hacks that he gives every month are valuable to the majority of Amazon sellers, and with those hacks, two guest speakers join him on these trainings and they share the latest strategies that's working right now. And so that is the basis of what Kevin is going to be talking about today. Today, instead of this being behind the closed doors of the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind, which most of the year is closed, he's opening up some of his favorite ones from the past doors of the Helium 10 Elite Mastermind, which most of the year is closed. He's opening up some of his favorite ones from the past couple of months with you, so you're going to get a sneak peek, without actually being Helium 10 Elite members, on the kind of level of knowledge that being part of this mastermind can help you. Kevin King: Welcome everybody to this webinar. Like Bradley said, we do this every single month, usually on a Thursday. It varies on the exact Thursday, sometimes around the middle of the month, but we do a Helium 10 Elite training and what I want to do today is basically, like Bradley says, open up the doors and share some of this with you. So I've gone through from the last few months, some of my favorite stuff. Then I'm going to share that with you today, absolutely free. So some of it will be the ninja hacks, the first six or so things that I have seven ninja hacks. That's what I do every single month. So I have seven of them here for you today as well. I'm going to share six of them with you, and then the seventh one, which is the one Bradley just talked about, where someone made a million dollars selling over a five-day weekend. I'm going to show you that hack. You've got Easter coming up, Mother's Day coming up. It could make a huge difference for some of you. So that'll be at the very end, so make sure you stay to that. If you leave earlier, you're going to miss the number one hack that could make you a lot of money and I've taken a few slides from some of the presenters that have been in the Helium 10, the guests and a couple. Just a little section of some of what they presented, and you know, when they presented it, they presented it their way and in their voice. I'm just going to give you a quick little summary of those, just so you can get a taste of the kind of stuff that you find in Helium 10 Elite and share that with you. And you're going to find some actionable, good stuff today. Kevin: Number one this is something that you're going to fail at. You know, everybody's always like PPC. I hate PPC. It just drives me crazy. You know, and you're going to actually fail at PPC unless you fix this metric. This is something that nobody really talks about. Aaron Cordova is actually the one that shared this, and I think Destaney Wishon has talked about it and a few other people have talked about it. But if you don't actually take a look at this metric, your PPC is just going to drive you crazy and cost you through the nose. Kevin: What you want to do is you want to check the benchmark conversion rate for your brand. Now you're going to need brand registry. So if you don't have a trademark filed and you're not brand registered, you won't be able. What you want to be checking for is, if you're not at the bare minimum median conversion rate for your category, you're most likely going to be spinning through the nose on your PPC and it's just not going to work like you want it to be. Your ACOS is going to go and your TACOS are going to go through the roof. This video here is about a minute video. I'm going to play it. I'm going to have to hold up a little speaker next to my microphone because for some reason the Zoom is not letting the sound, but Aaron is going to explain this to you on this video. Here we go. Aaron: Basically, you find your conversion rate compared to everybody else. You go to campaign manager okay, campaigns. If you know how to get the campaign manager that you have other problems, campaign manager, you go here. Then you go to the side it's called insights and reporting. You're going to get a brand metrics okay, the brand metrics are awesome. Okay, in here you're going to pick your brand. You're going to get brand metrics, okay, the brand metrics are awesome. Aaron: In here, you're going to pick your brand. You're going to pick a category. In this case, I'm going to pick sports water bottles. Okay, select that guy and continue. Okay, then you're going to go in here and you're going to press this little view detailed metrics for your brand in this category. This is going to be horrible. I apologize, this is something we haven't really worked on very well. Check out this. Customer conversion rates your brand 4.9%, category median 10 and sometimes a lot of them, they show the category top okay. This is an embarrassment. This listing is an embarrassment. Okay, it is half as less than half as good as the median, which, when you're just at the medium, your product probably will not even be profitable because you're literally average, essentially horrible. But this is how you open the door to see if you're going to have a best seller at the very, very, very, very minimum. You got to be at the category median. Kevin: If you're not, at that category median then you need to adjust your listing. You need to fix your product page. You need to fix your product page. You need to fix your listing so that you can convert higher. Otherwise you're going to be fighting an uphill battle on everything. All right, that's number one. Number two this is how you can boost your brand entity score. How many of you ever heard of a brand entity score? I bet there's hardly any of you out there. There might be a couple of you have heard of a brand entity score. Does anybody know what the brand entity score is? Everybody has one on Amazon. Kevin: If you're a seller on Amazon and this affects your rank, it's a score that Amazon does. There's a lot of factors in the A9 that affect your rank. There's a ton of factors but the brand entity score plays a major role in how do you rank and you can affect this with your Q&A section. Amazon doesn't just look at your keywords. They don't just look at your title and your bullet points and your back-end keywords. They're reading everything. They're reading the Q&A section. They're now using AI to analyze your images. They're taking a lot of stuff into account when they're going to rank you and the Q&A section plays a major role. So if your Q&A section is fairly empty, that's a problem. You section is fairly empty, that's a problem. You need to get that full. That's one of the ways that some people, when they first start out and they have no reviews, they fill their Q&A section and you watch what you can do. You can rank a lot quicker. But this brand entity score is something you want to pay attention to. Kevin: How do you find it? There's something called Amazon Comprehend. Now this was shared by Matt over at ClearAds, originally on LinkedIn, and then he presented it in detail at my recent Billion Dollar Seller Summit and then we've shared it here as a hack. He's allowed me to share part of it, so I can't show the whole thing, but he allowed me to share part of it in my newsletter and here. Kevin: But it's called Amazon Comprehend and what you want to do, you can access this. There's a link there at the bottom. It's on AWS, on Amazon AWS, and it's an API. So it takes a little bit of programming know-how or how to get into this thing. It's not too bad but it's not like straightforward. Kevin: But with this Amazon Comprehend, once you get access to the API, what you can do is you can maximize your Q&As for keyword ranking. So the Q&A section on Amazon on your product. You want to maximize that for keyword ranking. So what you want to do is you want to remove the bias from search. So your description and all the content on your listing, they have a bias towards the seller of the product. So Amazon knows that you're optimizing your listing like you're making this the best and you're like saying that my product is the greatest thing since sliced bread. But Amazon's like how do we know that Kevin can say his product's the best, but maybe it's actually not so good despite what he says or whatever claims he's making? So we want to know from the customer what do they actually think? And let's take what they actually think and factor that into how we're going to rank this product. So they use the Q&A section and reviews both of those to do this. So if you don't have reviews and Q&A, you have a bias. Kevin: So what you want to do is you want to come in and gather questions that people might be asking about your product. So how do you do that? If you don't know, if you don't have legitimate questions and people haven't asked real questions yet, you can go out to tools like Ahrefs or Semrush. Those are big SEO tools so they have a free aspect and there's a paid aspect. Or you can go to answerthepublic.com. That's Neil Patel's company. Neil spoke at the Sell and Scale Summit Helium 10 did about a year and a half ago. But answer the public and you can just type in a keyword. You can type in you know, if you're selling dog bowls, slow-feed dog bowls, you can type slow-feed dog bowl into answerthepublic.com and it'll spit back. It goes out and reads Reddit and all these different forums and says these are the questions people are asking about slow-feed dog bowls. So you can take those as a seed and you can then use those and have someone ask those on your Amazon listing and then you, as the seller, answer them just to get some in there. But you're going to answer them in such a way that you want to make sure that you answer yes or no. Amazon is looking for yes or no answers. Big answers are great, but if you can start, if someone says, does this slow feed dog bowl keep my dog from having diarrhea, you want to try to phrase your answer in the form that you say yes or no and then you can say other stuff and put additional keywords in there for ranking and all this. Kevin: But they're looking for yes and no answers to questions and that's how they can guide. Like, if someone types in slow-feed dog bowl stomach problems or something they're going to know, yes, this one actually helps it. So you want to get multiple questions in there and then what you're going to do is you're going to use Amazon Comprehend. Before you put these questions in, you're going to actually and the answers, you're going to use it to actually get a score. So it's going to return the sentiment. So you're going to ask the question, show that, upload that into Comprehend, put the answer and then make sure you're getting a high percentage of confidence. Amazon Comprehend will give you a score back. It's on like a zero to one scale and it will give you a score back and you want a high level of confidence towards Amazon interpreting your response as positive or negative. Kevin: Now you can also do this and go look at your competition's reviews. You can gather it from there. You don't have to go to answer the public. You can get what people are asking on other people's products and use those and once you find the ones that have the high confidence. Then what you want to do, uh, which one? Like I said, is zero to one, but one is the highest. Those are the ones that you want to get onto your listing and those are the ones you want to put onto your listing. Kevin: So what you're going to do is you're going to these newly found questions that score high on the confidence, using Amazon Comprehend. You're going to go and actually, either maybe you have a buyer account that you buy stuff from Amazon you can ask the question or you can get your friends or family or someone to ask a question. Remember, this is not review, so it's okay. You can get someone to ask a question. Or, if you're on a Facebook group, say, can you ask this question? And then you go in there as the seller this is important, it gives you a little bit more weight and answer the questions. Whenever someone asks a question, Amazon pings. I don't know what the number is now three to five, ten people says, hey, do you know the answer to this question? But one of them is always the seller. You want to be the first to try to get in there and answer before someone else does and messes it up. They may answer too but you want to get yours in there as quick as you can, so you go in and answer it with that yes or no or whatever. When you ran it through Amazon Comprehend whatever it gave you as the highest score and this is going to help you rank on Amazon. It's a pretty cool little technique. Kevin: Here's another way. Everybody's always got cash flow problems. Money, money, money, money, money. How do I pay for this? How do I pay for that? Not everybody has a rich uncle or deep pockets. If you have decent credit, this is a way that you can actually extend your supplier payments for 60 days with zero interest. It's pretty cool. It's called the Amazon Plum Card, so if you have decent credit I don't know if this is available to people in other countries. I'm not sure what their exact rules are on what countries you have to live in to get this. Obviously, US citizens can get it, but Amazon has a whole bunch of, I mean sorry, American Express has a whole bunch of different cards. The Plum Card actually gives you discounts for paying early. So if you charge all your PPC or you charge whatever you want to charge suppliers. Whatever you want to charge, if you pay it early they'll give you a 1.5% discount. Or they have an option where you can extend it for 60 days and don't have to pay any interest as long as you pay the minimum due. You got to make a minimum payment. As long as you pay the minimum due, they'll give you 60 days to pay that. So this can be a great way. If you're trying to juggle some cash is to use this card. Kevin: A lot of you are saying, Kevin, that's all great, but my supplier doesn't take credit cards. How am I supposed to pay my supplier with credit cards? I always have to wire money or use Alibaba Escrow or something or whatever. Actually, there's a service called Melio. This one right here, Melio Payments that allows you to actually pay by credit card anybody, so you can pay suppliers. They do charge a fee, so it costs you about 2.5% to 3% roughly. So they do charge a fee because they get hit with processing fees but that fee is often less than what you would pay in interest or to get a loan, or origination fees or something else, and so that is an option, especially if you combine this. Kevin: If you're really cash flowing, you can go to bankrate.com and you can do a search for 0% interest credit cards and there's a lot of credit cards that have 12, 15, 18 months of 0% interest. So if you go there and actually apply for one of those credit cards, you have decent credit. You can get a 0% interest credit card that you can ride out for a while, while you're growing your business and use Melio payments to pay it. You're basically paying a 3% fee, which is basically a 3% interest, which is dirt-cheap in today's world. Now another credit card you might want to consider, if you're already selling and you're running a lot of PPC especially, is the Amex Business Gold Card. This is not the regular gold card, not the consumer gold card. It has to be the business gold card but it gives you 4x points on all your PPC spend up to $150,000 per card. So you can get 600,000 points on one single card in a year. Kevin: And I know one of the guys that comes to one of my events, the Billion Dollar Seller Summit. He actually, and I'm not sure if he's in Helium 10 Elite or not, but he has like 10 of these cards. He lives in Brazil and he cycles through them, so as soon as one hits that $150,000 on his PPC spin, he just swaps out the card. He says he's flown first class everywhere in the world and hasn't paid for a plane ticket in years and flying first class with him, his wife, his family, that this card is an amazing card for that. So there's different credit cards for different purposes but those are two that you might want to consider and you can transfer these to different airlines. You can transfer them to hotels. Kevin: You know Bradley is always going out to the, he's always doing the Maldives honeymoon strategy. He's been out to the Maldives three or four times. A lot of you may not realize that's not Helium 10 sending him out there. They're not saying man Bradley, good job, dude, here's a free trip to the Maldives. No, he's using his miles and his points to go out there on his own and do this stuff for you. But this is one of the ways he knows how to do this. There's another site called points.me where you can see what's the best place to transfer stuff. Kevin: There's a ton of stuff around this but I just want to show you this. Really cool. We could talk about this for hours of all kinds of cool stuff you can do, but I just want to show you these really quick. Now here's some AI. AI is the hot thing right now. Everybody's AI, this AI, that. There's some stuff that everybody's just sticking AI on the end of everything, even if it's not really AI. But I want to show you 11 really cool tools. There's a lot more but these are just 11 tools that you may find useful in selling e-commerce, that may come in useful in helping you with your images or helping you with research, or helping you with a few different things. Before I do that, if you have not seen this, this is from Sora, S-O-R-A, and this is video. It's not publicly available yet, but karavideo.ai has a wait list right now and they're gonna be the first to offer this. Kevin: This is studio level quality imagery on by video by prompting. So you type in a text prompt, you type in a paragraph, say I want a video like this and it will make the video up to I think it's 30 or 45 seconds right now, maybe up to. It's going to get to where it can do much longer videos and entire movies, but it's amazing. I'm going to play this for you. There's no sound on this, so I'm going to play this for you. Kevin: But this video here of these mammoths walking and these people walking through a Tokyo with the cherry blossoms, this little animation here. This was all done in minutes by typing in a prompt. So, like those mammoths, this was the prompt that was used. That's the exact prompt. Several giant woolly mammoths this was the prompt that was used. That's the exact prompt. Several giant woolly mammoths approached, treading through a snowy meadow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's what made that video. Kevin: In fact, there's movie producers now that are saying this is going to change everything. We're going to be able to do entire movies without movie studios. It's crazy. You're going to be able to do product videos and lifestyle stuff and all kinds of crazy stuff with it. So keep your eyes on this, and I would recommend you get on the list at karavideo.ai so when this opens up, you get some of the first access to it. They're a little bit worried about how authentic this is right now, so they're putting in some safeguards, but it's really cool technology. Kevin: Now, notice there was no sound on this one, because this doesn't make the sound, it just makes the video. So you need sound. So what has happened is ElevenLabs has a tool that will take a quiet video for example, that mammoth and it will analyze what's in the video and it will make the sound of, like the mammoths crunching the snow or making their horns their sound, you know. Whatever. This is an example of a video I'm about to play here. It may be a little bit hard to hear I'm going to hold the speaker up to it of a video I'm about to play here. It's maybe a little bit hard to hear, I'm going to hold the speaker up to it, but this video was made with a prompt, silent. And then this ElevenLabs went in, analyzed the video, what's in the video, and added all the sound effects using AI in a matter of minutes. So let me. AI audio: In a place beyond imagination, where the horizon kisses the heavens. One man dares to journey where few have ventured. Armed with nothing but his wit and an unyielding spirit, he seeks the answers to mysteries that lie beyond the stars. Kevin: This is pretty cool stuff. You're going to be able to do some amazing stuff with your products, with your advertising, with everything. This is coming and it's important to stay on the cutting edge of this, because if you're first mover in a lot of this stuff, you're going to have major, major advantages over your competition. Now there's more to this, though. It even gets cooler. You can actually now do ads with AI. These ads will go out and this adgen.ai will actually go to your Shopify site. It will go to your Amazon listing. You can put in the URL of your Amazon listing and it will create ads formatted perfectly for Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, everywhere, automatically based on that. Then you can do some modifications, but it's really cool. So you can give it a brand name, you can give it a URL, you can give it a subject and it will automatically create the ads for you. This is another one Pika Art which will take a still photo and add animation to it, and then you can automatically change it. You can just type in the background and it automatically changes. It's called pika.art. You can change your top. Here you have a monkey. Let's put some sunglasses on him. You can do this. You can just drop in a still image that doesn't move and you can add movement to it. It's really cool where this stuff is going. This is a prompt. You can take a screenshot of this. I'm not going to go through the whole thing or you'll get this in the replay. They'll show you actually how to use peak art to add movement, which can actually dramatically increase your engagement rate on social media or any kind of advertising you do. It's amazing stuff. There's crazy stuff that's out there. Kevin: Now some additional tools, Chad Rubin went through a bunch of AI tools and he said these are some of the ones that he considers to be the god mode of AI frameworks. I'm just going to buzz through them really quick. You can take notes and go check them out later. One is called booth.ai. It generates studio-quality product photos in minutes, so you don't even need a photographer anymore. Another one called CopyMonkey. This optimizes your Amazon listing. There's others like Shoelix, and there's quite a few out there that will do this, but CopyMonkey is one you might want to check out. There's ReviewScout, which, if you're a reseller or a wholesaler, it'll give you deep insights into the competition and buyer box trends for wholesalers or resellers. There's one called MContent, which also helps you do all kinds of great imagery change out backgrounds, put your product in special scenes. They just introduced some new cool tools just this week, so MContent is really good. He's presented on the Helium 10 Elite as well. Kevin: DoMyShoot's another one that will help you do all your visual content. So basically it's AI as your photographer. Instead of spending $5,000 to take everybody to the beach, you can upload your product and put it in any kind of scene that you want. frequently.ai is another one that's really, really good. Another that has all kinds of answers to all kinds of questions. Another one is the valky.ai, or some people know it as Shoelix. That one's another one that's really popular. So these are all some cool Amazon or AI tools for Amazon sellers. Another one is iphoto.ai will help you create your listing images where you can upload your product and drop it into all kinds of scenes, modify it, do testing on different images and different backgrounds. It's really really cool. So those are some of the AI tools that are out there. Kevin: The number five here. This is from Ayana at YLT Translations. She presented on the Helium 10 Elite and she said you know, this is a cool little trick on how you can get more reviews. So you have to be selling in additional marketplaces. If you're just selling in the US marketplace, this won't work. But if you're set up to sell in other marketplaces, you know Amazon combines the listings. When you don't have a lot of combines the reviews, I'm sorry. When you don't have a lot of combines the reviews, I'm sorry when you don't have a lot of listings from other marketplaces. So what she's saying is you can create dummy ASINs and of your target products and then list them in all the different marketplaces. Now someone buys it, that's okay, but you can also create dummy ASINs and then what you do is you and each one of those make sure they're in all the same browse mode. She has the steps here make sure that the localized listing is live, at least the tile and some bullet points, so you put a legitimate you know it's localized and it's in the right language and it's written right and put a really low price so that viners don't get hit, because most people don't realize that sometimes, when your price is high, vine reviewers don't take your product even though they might want it, because once they hit $600, they have to pay taxes on it. Kevin: So a lot of people don't realize that in the United States that anything over $600 in gifts, they get a 1099 from Amazon at the end of the year. So if they got $10,000 worth of products at retail price and they then have to pay, Amazon says this is what we gave you in gifts. It's just like winning. If you went to the Price is Right or a game show or Jeopardy or something, you have to pay taxes on those winnings. Or if you went in Vegas over $10,000, you got to pay taxes. So this is a lot of times, they won't take your product if it's a $49 product because they're like ah, that's just going to add to my taxes. But if it's temporarily $9.95 while you're getting the vine reviews and then you put it back at $49.95 later, they might take it. So you want local low pricing and then you go out and you get. Kevin: You do vine reviews everywhere and then they'll all combine together. If you do them in multiple marketplaces and if you really get do this right, you can get up to 2,400 different ones. And some of the ways you can do these. You know these quote-unquote dummy listings that she's got on the right-hand side there. You just do different colors of a product. That's kind of like a dummy listing. It's like, okay, I have azure, I have a cobalt, I have a navy, a sapphire sky teal, and then you could have your supplier make just a couple of each of these colors and then you send those out. This is a really cool way to actually get your reviews up and then, once you get enough reviews in a marketplace, it wants to keep sharing these. It'll just share that marketplace usually, but this is a way that you can get a running start. It's a pretty cool little technique. Kevin: This is from Matt Koston. He presented a couple months ago on Helium 10 Elite and this is one of his tricks. That he showed is this is how you can convert like crazy with what he called an index image. This he calls it the. It's the image in your listing that will be the top reasons why your product is the best. This is not your main photo. This is not your photo number one. This is what he calls this photo number two, and it's an index of your products. Is why I think it's why he calls it the index damage, and what he says is you need to number the benefits. A lot of people are using call-outs, they use infographics but they don't number them. He runs a company that does testing and split testing and all kinds of stuff and he says that they've tested this to the end of the earth and back and this is what works. So you want to actually have numbers like this. So something like this should be your second image the five reasons you love, or the seven reasons, or the three reasons. Kevin: Odd numbers are always better than even numbers. Three, five or seven or nine always work the best. Why do I do seven ninja hacks every month for Helium 10 Elite? Seven is a magic number when it comes to psychology. But here he's got the five and look, there's numbers. That's important. He just doesn't list them. People like order and when they see numbers, their mind can sort it and they can read it quickly and it makes sense to them. So the numbering system here is critical, not just the fact that he put the main point, the main benefit and capital, and then explained it in bold and a little bit larger and then explained everything else below it in light blue. But he's got these numbers. That's the critical thing is numbering it. Kevin: And then you notice here. On the third one, there's a US flag. US flags for Americans can up your conversion rate dramatically. You don't have to have a product that was made in the USA. You can say you're a USA company. Now, if you're going to say it's made in the USA and put a flag, it needs to be made in the USA, don't lie. You can say we're a small US company and you can have a flag. Kevin: Now, I see people sometimes make mistakes where they put a flag and they put it inside their graphics or their photos and they don't put it in red, white and blue. They put it in green or they put it in some other color. Never, ever, do that. The flag always needs to be in red, white and blue and look like an American flag. Don't change the colors on it to make it fit the graphic it needs to look because that instantly says a message. But these little things can convert really really well for you. Kevin: It also says add a golden guarantee. Amazon automatically guarantees if they don't like the product they can return it. But you want a golden guarantee. You almost want to name it. Give it some sort of crazy name the PX22G guarantee or something. Don't just say it's money back guarantee or 100% money back or satisfaction guarantee. That's all just common. Give it some sort of crazy name - the dog barker, the tail wagging guarantee or something like that. The outlandish almost ridiculous in your guarantee name. So here's some examples 100%, no mosquito bites guarantee. Bottom of the bottle guarantee, lifetime never lost guarantee. Give it some sort of name like that, not just money back or your satisfaction guarantee or some general thing. Give it a name. It resonates with people and will help your conversions. Like I said here, the generic like 30 money-back guarantee gets just lost in the noise. Test your guarantee names too. You can use Helium 10 to do that. There's other tools out there, but Helium 10 has it built in. Where you can, actually they have a relationship with PickFu but you can do it through Helium 10 and test the guarantee names as well. The number of sales you make is far higher than the people who will take advantage of the guarantee. So don't worry about a guarantee. Kevin: I have something in one of my things I do direct to consumer and I have a $4 insurance charge. It's optional but it's automatically on the order form. They have to cross it out. If they don't want it, it fills it in, but then they cross it out and about 30% or 40% of the people pay that $4. And every year, if I send out 5,000 orders, I might have three people take me up on it. And so, out of 5,000 orders, if 40% take it, that's 2,000 people that pay me $4. That's eight grand and I had to replace three orders. There's big money in this. So don't worry about a lot of people taking advantage of it. Some will. Kevin: There's also something called the squeezed benefit test. You take a look on the left. This is the original graphic that someone had. Has all the bullet points. This is what you normally see and what most of you're probably doing. But look at the one on the right same type of stuff but much easier to read, numbered, organized with icons. This converts people on Amazon buy photos, they don't buy products. I think Perry Belcher originally said that they buy photos, they don't buy products. So your photos are crucial to your conversion and they're going to become even more crucial with AI. This is the test. And look at the difference, even of people, it's 76%. That's 100% certainty that this is a much better option. So this is a cool little tactic that you can do.

Al and Kev talk about Piczle Cross: Story of Seasons Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:12: What Have We Been Up To 00:07:30: News 00:27:50: Piczle Cross: Story Of Seasons 00:43:16: Outro Links Disney Dreamlight Valley “The Laugh Floor” Update Notes Coral Island Updated Roadmap Ikonei Island Console Versions Farm Folks Conveyor Belts Farming Simulator Kids Trailer Minami Lane Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:32) Al: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:36) Al: My name is Al, and we are here today to talk about Mario- wait, no, that was last week. (0:00:38) Kevin: and my name is Kevin yeah I mean we could no no we’re just waiting for Princess Peach since it’s the main thing um there’s a demo if you play it you know what it is and you can maybe have your fill okay well okay well okay all right well yeah all right well let me know when you do play though Thank you for the question. (0:00:46) Al: There’s not much to talk about just now. (0:00:56) Al: I still haven’t played Donkey Kong vs or Mario vs Donkey Kong yet. (0:01:01) Al: I’ve been busy with other things. (0:01:07) Al: I’ve bought the game. (0:01:08) Al: I have the game. (0:01:09) Al: It’s sitting here right next to me. (0:01:10) Al: I just haven’t played it yet. (0:01:13) Al: It actually arrived while I was in the US. (0:01:23) Al: I just need to add to the clip. (0:01:25) Al: Oh, well, dude. (0:01:28) Al: Don’t you worry, we need the content. (0:01:32) Al: Awesome. (0:01:33) Al: Hi, Kevin. Welcome. We, today, we’re going to talk about (0:01:37) Al: Pixel Cross Story of Seasons, which is the new story of season themed (0:01:43) Al: nonogram or pie-cross game, however you want to call it. (0:01:46) Kevin: Yeah, it’s it’s just a big cross it’s like it’s like Kleenex right the the brand name is the thing (0:01:52) Al: Exactly, exactly. So, I believe Nonogram is the non-branded generic name for it, (0:01:54) Kevin: Yeah (0:01:59) Kevin: Yeah (0:01:59) Al: and Picross is the standard one that people know, and Pixelcross is this series. So, (0:02:04) Al: just to be confusing. So, we’re going to talk about that. Before that, we have some news. (0:02:05) Kevin: This up start (0:02:13) Al: First of all, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:02:16) Kevin: uh mostly sweating from the toilet (0:02:22) Kevin: um uh no but um what have I actually been playing um I uh no oh oh actually no big big day today I have done it I have done 152 shrines every piece of armor every same quest (0:02:40) Kevin: tonight my final showdown with Ganon too but I closed the book on Gears of the Kingdom (0:02:43) Al: Nice. (0:02:46) Kevin: very excited for that um yeah yeah fun fact i’ve actually been through that before because I was just like i’m curious what what happens if I go down here and I made it all the way to Ganon but then I got what by the the actual fights going on so um so yeah I at least have an idea of what to expect but uh now that I have a whole crew good stuff i’m looking forward to it. (0:02:48) Al: Awesome, that’s exciting. (0:03:13) Al: Fair enough (0:03:16) Kevin: It’s in a good place right now, but yeah, that’s kind of all I’ve been up to a lot. (0:03:42) Kevin: a lot of tears of the kingdom and big crush, really. (0:03:44) Kevin: What about you, Al? (0:03:45) Kevin: What you been up to? (0:03:46) Al: Yeah, I have actually been playing Pokemon. I’ve been doing, yeah, dangerous. The edge for presumably Legends, Legends Arceus, rather than Scarlet and Violet. I have been playing, (0:03:46) Kevin: Okay, I mean, I’ve gotten the itch. (0:04:05) Al: I’ve been doing the Venusaur raids, that’s what I’ve been doing. (0:04:08) Kevin: Okay. I… yeah, I mean like, um, I don’t know what it means, but right, they just don’t say who, (0:04:19) Kevin: as in what they did in Sword and Shield. Um, I don’t know if it’s because it’s kind of just following on that act, or because of the performance issues, or okay, there’s a number of reasons, I guess, (0:04:33) Kevin: but, um, I, um… (0:04:38) Kevin: I probably will go… I don’t know, I’ve missed a few of them for that mark, the collector and whatnot. (0:04:44) Kevin: Um, maybe I’ll fire… (0:04:46) Al: Yeah, I’m not a huge fan of how Pokemon like your your fellow trainers Pokemon fainting means that you just lose quicker. It feels not great, especially if you’re going online with randoms and you get one person who’s at level 50 and they get knocked out every two rounds, you’re dead and you’re dead in 30 seconds. It’s like that’s not fun. (0:04:57) Kevin: - Ah. (chuckling) (0:05:05) Kevin: oh yeah oh yeah that’s uh that’s oh that’s true see I have my brother and we play (0:05:14) Al: I feel like it kind of. (0:05:17) Al: It stops you recovering from bad strategy, right? (0:05:22) Al: Like, or it stops you recovering from bad players with good strategy. (0:05:23) Kevin: yeah (0:05:27) Al: Whereas, you know, because it’s too fast for you to be able to do anything about that. (0:05:27) Kevin: yep yeah (0:05:32) Al: Whereas in the sword and shield ones, yet them being knocked out wasn’t helping you. (0:05:37) Al: It’s not great that they’re being knocked out, but, you know, (0:05:39) Al: it wasn’t causing you an actual problem in that it was reducing the number of turns or whatever. (0:05:46) Kevin: What? Yeah, it was. (0:05:46) Al: So, not in, yeah, no, no, not in sword and shield. (0:05:47) Kevin: No, no, I’m thinking of the adventures. No, you’re right. I’m sorry. No, no, I’m thinking of the dead raid adventures. (0:05:52) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um… (0:05:52) Al: In sword and shield you had, like, was it 10 turns in total, I think, to knock it out. (0:05:57) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, you’re right. (0:05:58) Kevin: Huh. I never thought about that. (0:06:01) Kevin: That’s… (0:06:03) Kevin: That is a weird design choice. Like, I kind of get it. (0:06:06) Kevin: ‘Cause now that everyone’s kind of on their own turn and incentivizes people to, you know, actually carry their weight instead of just doing the thing. (0:06:16) Kevin: Although that might be more helpful in certain circumstances. (0:06:19) Kevin: Um, but, uh, I mean, yeah, there’s a whole discussion we could have about the design of those things. (0:06:25) Kevin: I… (0:06:27) Kevin: If they want to keep going with these raids and whatnot, I really feel they need to put a little more work into, uh… (0:06:35) Kevin: I don’t know how to best describe this. (0:06:38) Al: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like you can’t bring in a level 50 or whatever. Yeah. (0:06:39) Kevin: I guess just implementing limits or restrictions, right? Like… (0:06:44) Kevin: Rental Book. (0:06:46) Kevin: Yup, yup, you need to have a level 100 or whatever for this fight, yada yada. (0:06:52) Kevin: Um, there, yeah, there’s definitely a lot that could be done. (0:06:56) Kevin: Um, and we’ve had that conversation elsewhere, but Rental Pokemon would probably be the easiest thing to do. (0:07:02) Kevin: Here’s some Pokemon you can use for the rest. (0:07:02) Al: Yeah, I think it would be great to have not just rental Pokémon, but rental Pokémon that other people can submit. So like, you know, people like Steve and other like YouTubers and stuff could say these are the builds that I’m suggesting I think would be fantastic. (0:07:10) Kevin: Oh, that’d be great, yep. (0:07:16) Kevin: Influencers. (0:07:19) Al: But yeah, you’re right, we’ve talked about that over and over again. So I’ve been playing that and I’ve been playing Pixel Cross and that’s about it this week. Not much, not much. (0:07:30) Kevin: Yeah, alright. (0:07:30) Al: Should we talk about some news? (0:07:32) Al: So Disney Dreamlight Valley, the full patch notes for the laugh floor update right now. (0:07:33) Kevin: I guess so. We’re legally obligated to by no one. (0:07:43) Al: So we talked about this a little bit last episode, but just in that it was coming, and obviously it was going to have Monsters Inc. So they’ve detailed a bunch of stuff. The link is in the show notes. I guess a few things I’ll just pick out. They have included the two characters, Mike and Sully. (0:08:03) Al: There are a number of new items. (0:08:05) Al: They’ve got the partner statue. (0:08:08) Al: They start you with Walt and Mickey at Disneyland. (0:08:11) Kevin: Yeah. Oh, do they have it in now? Okay. (0:08:12) Al: They’ve added that in the game now. (0:08:15) Al: And of course, the armor. (0:08:17) Al: You’ve got Dreamlight armor outfit for some reason. (0:08:22) Al: A bunch of new customization, some new star paths and premium bundles. (0:08:29) Al: And Scrooge McDuck’s shop has been expanded. (0:08:32) Al: Absolutely. Yeah, one thing that really annoyed me about that game is you start up and then he’s like, “Oh, I need some money to expand my shop” and you’re like, “No, you don’t. Away and use your own money.” (0:08:36) Kevin: Give the rich duck more money. (0:08:50) Kevin: that’s on how you became a trillionaire don’t you know how capitalism works I need your money to make more money oh that’s a good one (0:08:51) Al: Ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And… (0:09:03) Al: And, of course, you can change your name in the game now. So, there we go. (0:09:10) Al: If you want the more detailed notes there in the show notes, there’s a whole bunch of bugs fixed as well, which is always good. (0:09:16) Al: Next, we have an updated roadmap for Coral Island. So, I actually coincidentally talked about this last episode as well, because I was like, “Oh, I’ve not seen the roadmap in a while.” (0:09:27) Al: They’ve detailed the next three updates coming. (0:09:32) Al: 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3. (0:09:36) Al: They’ve given some detailed information on some of the things coming in 1.1, including the town rank will now go up to S, including some more story and questlines around that. (0:09:53) Al: The tourists are coming, which are the backers. (0:09:56) Al: There was a certain level of backer who could get themselves in as an NPC. (0:09:58) Kevin: Yeah, that’s, hmm, that’s, oh, I don’t, I don’t know if I like that, that’s a, that’s a weird discourse. (0:10:00) Al: coming as tourists. (0:10:02) Al: And, of course, they are not romanceable, which everybody on Twitter is mad about. (0:10:14) Al: It is a little bit, it is a little bit like, oh, these characters that are based on real people, yeah, that’s very, very weird. (0:10:23) Kevin: Mmm. Although I will say, for the people who made it in, they should be able to romance themselves. (0:10:30) Kevin: But that will stand behind. (0:10:35) Al: They’re also adding in the finale of the giant storyline, which I’m very happy with, actually (0:10:44) Al: has some story for the mare folk, which I’m very happy about because, come on, they’re adding hangouts where you can, it’s, I mean, it’s basically dates with NPCs, no, well, (0:10:52) Kevin: You couldn’t before with the mermaids? (0:10:59) Kevin: What was the point? (0:11:00) Al: with the mare folk, there was nothing, there was, you could barely talk to the mare folk, (0:11:03) Al: there was almost nothing. (0:11:03) Kevin: What was the point? (0:11:04) Al: And that was my biggest issue. (0:11:06) Al: They would just decided that was going to be post 1.0 content. (0:11:09) Al: And I don’t think it should have been, I think that this 1.1 update is what should have been (0:11:14) Al: update. That was my whole thing. (0:11:15) Kevin: Probably yeah. Oh my gosh. I’m just looking at the list. Holy mackerel. This should have been 1.0 (0:11:21) Al: I suspect it was a money thing, but. (0:11:24) Kevin: Probably in game dev money matters what? (0:11:32) Al: Yeah, and they’re adding Thai to the game as well. (0:11:38) Al: So I was going to say, if you speak Thai and not English, you’re not going to hear me say that. (0:11:40) Kevin: Okay, um (0:11:44) Al: But there you go. (0:11:45) Kevin: Well, yeah There’s one I have a question about what does what does (0:11:51) Kevin: improvements to the hat system mean what does that mean? (0:11:54) Al: So when you wear a hat, it’s limited on what hairstyles you can have for that. (0:12:02) Kevin: Oh gosh, I hate that. I hate that so much. As someone with long hair, I often get the short end of that stick in games. Sword and Shield, I could wear hats with my actual hairstyle and it killed me. They’re great hats. Unite, just inside. Pokemon Unite is really bad because and hats are considered the same thing, you can’t actually separate them. (0:12:03) Al: So, yeah. (0:12:32) Kevin: Um, save for a few instances, but a lot of the hats come with hair and you do. (0:12:39) Kevin: Oh, that that’s a, that’s one that that’s a very niche and specific thing that really gets under my skin. (0:12:44) Al: Yeah, it gets worse. So I believe until this new update, if you were wearing a hat, you just wouldn’t have any hair. So now they’re adding two hairstyles for hats. I’m quite happy about it personally, because the other thing that games quite often miss with hair is bald options. And they’ll go like, “Oh, here’s a buzz cut,” or whatever, but they’ll very rarely have bald, whereas this did have bald from the start. (0:12:51) Kevin: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. (0:12:57) Kevin: Okay. Well, AB steps. I wouldn’t call it. (0:13:08) Kevin: Okay. True. True. (0:13:14) Al: And we’ll actually have bald for hats. So a rare win for the bald heads. Cool. So yeah. (0:13:21) Kevin: Okay, there you go (0:13:27) Al: Oh, they’re also adding ocean farming and ranching. I’m very intrigued to see what… (0:13:30) Kevin: That’s a big one. (0:13:32) Kevin: Wait, what are you ranching? (0:13:34) Al: I don’t know. They’ve not detailed that yet, so I believe they’re going to talk about that in the next monthly update. So we’ll bring that when it comes. But yeah, I’m intrigued (0:13:44) Al: to see what they’re adding there. Like maybe sharks? Do you get to ranch sharks, maybe? (0:13:47) Kevin: mmm merfolk well you’re not wrong or at least can we get a revolutionary merperson who’s against the ranching I want some you know a little mermaid under (0:13:52) Al: Sounds like slavery. (0:14:14) Al: ICONI Island, they have said that their PlayStation Xbox versions are coming at the end of March. (0:14:26) Kevin: alright that game has very pretty art style only to check it out and not check it out but uh… (0:14:34) Kevin: now that we get consoles uh… (0:14:36) Kevin: oh he’s already on switch and paid down (0:14:38) Al: it is already on switch I believe oh wait maybe it’s not no it’s not on switch yet but they haven’t said anything about switch so who knows if they’ll ever actually come to switch because the this console update just (0:14:47) Kevin: okay well I’ll take (0:14:52) Kevin: mop-mop (0:14:57) Kevin: well I still might there’s a better chance I’ll check it out stuff oh the art isn’t the in-game visuals don’t match the art I’m not 100% you know what I mean all right but either way I’m more likely for me to check it out I do like (0:15:17) Kevin: having from up in the background there (0:15:23) Al: FarmFolks, they are adding quite, I think this is quite wild, their conveyor system. (0:15:31) Al: Have you watched the video on this, Kevin? (0:15:33) Kevin: Yes, it looks awesome. (0:15:35) Kevin: It looks like a monorail system. (0:15:36) Al: Yes, that’s exactly what it is. (0:15:38) Kevin: That’s what I’d call it. (0:15:40) Al: It’s like a monorail system with these trays that are going along this insane monorail system. (0:15:47) Al: And obviously the one they’ve built in the video is not what you would actually do, because is very very long and it doesn’t go (0:15:53) Al: anywhere, it just wiggles around. But I think they’re just trying to show how big and expansive it can be if you want it to be. So I am suddenly very interested in this game. (0:15:55) Kevin: yeah (0:15:59) Kevin: Yeah (0:16:03) Kevin: Right now you design your own roller coaster system for your crops or whatever (0:16:10) Kevin: Making up for that awful name (0:16:13) Al: Well, yeah. There are worse names, but yeah, it’s not a great- (0:16:16) Kevin: Well, okay, yes, yes, you’re right but um, yeah - Yeah. (0:16:26) Kevin: Oh, yeah, that looks fun. (0:16:27) Kevin: That’s a great looking monorail mare system. (0:16:33) Kevin: Kind of like Southfield reminds me of just the openness of it, (0:16:39) Al: Yeah, yeah. I forget, is this game out at all yet? It is not. I was wondering whether it was an early access one. No, it’s nothing. Nothing like that. And I don’t think we have (0:16:52) Kevin: Oh, well, looks that’s a good. (0:17:00) Kevin: I like that. (0:17:06) Kevin: I like how it looks with the art styles okay the (0:17:11) Kevin: My I know I’m I’m taking some interest in this. Wow the the person on their website. That’s just tracer from overwatch. Wow. Okay, um (0:17:20) Al: But in Fortnite style. (0:17:22) Kevin: But (0:17:26) Kevin: When will we get disney dreamland across fortnite (0:17:32) Al: Which way round, like… (0:17:33) Kevin: it’s closer than you think but you know what it could (0:17:36) Kevin: be either and or I don’t think so because there’s an announcement that they made an agreement they’re gonna put a whole universe in it for it like (0:17:38) Al: Because I feel like there have been Disney characters in Fortnite. (0:17:48) Al: - Yeah, but that’s. (0:17:51) Kevin: I mean I guess there’s the Marvel and Star Wars stuff but I don’t know if Disney Cooper I don’t think Mickey Minuss has been in Fortnite (0:17:58) Al: No, it looks like you’re right. (0:17:59) Al: It looks like they haven’t actually got any Disney proper characters in there. (0:18:04) Al: Just just the other the other companies they own. (0:18:12) Al: All right, Farming Simulator Kids, we have a release date (0:18:16) Al: for this is coming on the 26th of March. (0:18:20) Al: So just just under a month to go. (0:18:24) Al: We also know we have this trailer. (0:18:26) Al: have some sort of (0:18:28) Al: idea of the actual gameplay and it looks kind of minigame-esque, very much definitely looks like a kids game, I can see why it’s farming simulator kids. (0:18:40) Kevin: Yeah, there’s, uh, there’s a lot we can talk about here in my, uh, I mean, okay, first of all, it does, it’s not your boring, realistic, uh, no, not boring, but it’s not the standard, realistic farming simulator, it actually has a good, friendly style. (0:19:00) Kevin: Um, I think this is actually a very clever idea. (0:19:05) Kevin: Um, I, I think it’s your towards. (0:19:10) Kevin: It’s like, particularly young kids, um, because there’s like, basic maths and, and sorts of mini games. (0:19:20) Kevin: It’s also very clearly designed for tablets, which is a very common kid. (0:19:26) Kevin: Here’s your tablet thing now. (0:19:28) Kevin: Um, uh, I, I appreciate when there are, you know, genuine efforts to make quality type game (0:19:40) Kevin: kids, even as young as this demographic. (0:19:43) Kevin: Um, and it feels like that’s, uh, that’s how it’s going on here. (0:19:48) Kevin: Um, and, uh, it’s a smart move. (0:19:51) Kevin: Hook ’em on, hook ’em early to the Farm Simulator brand. (0:19:52) Al: Yeah, on one hand, it’s definitely, it looks very kid-friendly and very, it looks like it could be fun, while kind of getting some kind of ideas towards realistic farming in that it taught, you know, it’s trying to show you like the different stages and then what you do with these things. But it feels a little bit weird in that farming simulators thing is they are the realistic farming simulator. (0:20:22) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I will say it is unexpected. I’ll say that. But I, I think it’s a clever. (0:20:22) Al: This is not in any way a realistic farming simulator. (0:20:28) Al: So, I don’t know, it feels a little bit weird (0:20:40) Kevin: I think it’s a good way of going about it right because like, I don’t think farming’s in the head. (0:20:48) Kevin: young, demographic feel, um, and there’s (0:20:52) Kevin: little bits like the actual farming aspects, right? (0:20:56) Kevin: The crops and the, and I’m on the livestock are relatively realistic, right? (0:21:02) Kevin: They’re not cartoony. (0:21:04) Al: Yeah, they’re oversimplified, though. That’s the point, right? I think it’s only as realistic as other farming sims, but I don’t know. I need to try it to see that, because I don’t know if that’s actually the case. (0:21:04) Kevin: Um, they’re in the, whatever art style it’s in, but it is still. (0:21:17) Kevin: I guess so. (0:21:20) Kevin: Yeah, I (0:21:23) Kevin: Yeah, there’s a lot going on here too. There’s the omics running shop you feed people sandwiches from (0:21:30) Kevin: Shirley violet those are the exact shippers early by the (0:21:36) Kevin: You do the farms you the you know the actual farming and livestock, but there’s like indoor games and things like that (0:21:43) Kevin: For some reason dragging a kid into a bathtub (0:21:48) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t know there’s I’m not surprised right farming simulator clearly has money, so um (0:21:55) Kevin: and I still think it’s a (0:21:59) Kevin: Good idea, and I think it’s it’s a pretty alright looking kid’s game (0:22:04) Al: Yeah, yeah. (0:22:05) Kevin: Although the the static followed by the aliens on the TV freaks me out a little that’s that’s some creepy harvest moon nonsense They’re pulling there (0:22:14) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:22:16) Al: I’ll need to try this out to get Craig to try it and and see what it’s like. (0:22:21) Al: And last but not least, in the news, we have a new game, Minami Lane. (0:22:28) Al: Do you think it’s Minami? (0:22:30) Al: Minami. (0:22:30) Kevin: Sure, oh wait, it’s not Miami, it is Miami. (0:22:33) Al: Yeah, it does. (0:22:34) Al: So this game has just come out. (0:22:37) Kevin: Yeah. (0:22:41) Kevin: It’s not the GTA VI simulator, farming simulator. (0:22:46) Al: It came out yesterday, I think, as we were recording, so a week ago. (0:22:51) Al: The little blurb on it is, “Welcome to Minami Lane. (0:22:54) Al: Build your own street in this tiny, cosy, casual management sim. (0:22:59) Al: Unlock and customize buildings, manage your shops, and maximise the happiness of your (0:23:04) Al: villagers to complete quests and fill your street with (0:23:09) Kevin: Okay, so it, uh, it feels very, um, it’s the, the bunny game and the can’t game. (0:23:19) Kevin: When would you guys talk about before or wherever you talk about? (0:23:20) Al: Mm. Yes. Um, Usagi Shima and, uh, what’s it called? (0:23:23) Kevin: Yeah. (0:23:27) Kevin: That goes on the, yeah, it feels very much in that vein, probably (0:23:32) Kevin: largely because of the art style and the kind of isometric view. (0:23:39) Kevin: I mean, it’s really just centralized on this one street, right? (0:23:43) Kevin: So, um, uh, overall, but you like how it looks overall. (0:23:51) Kevin: Um, I think the art style is, it’s charming. (0:23:56) Kevin: It’s kind of old story book-ish feel. (0:24:00) Kevin: I don’t know how to describe that better. (0:24:02) Kevin: Um, I like the customizability options it looks like, and there’s some goofies. (0:24:09) Kevin: Like a Capa walking around. (0:24:11) Kevin: There’s cats that you can pet. (0:24:13) Kevin: Um, I think it’s cute. (0:24:15) Kevin: This feels like what I would have wanted from Garden Galaxy. (0:24:19) Al: Yeah, I feel like this is kind of, because I’ve talked about how I used to really like (0:24:27) Al: city building games and stuff, but then they got really complicated and I don’t like that anymore. (0:24:29) Kevin: Mm-hmm [laughter] (0:24:35) Al: But this feels like it’s simple enough that I could enjoy it, but complicated enough that it’s yeah, not just Garden Galaxy, it’s not just like put things down where you want them to. (0:24:49) Al: Like there’s actually a purpose to that and you’re trying to do something. (0:24:50) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, there’s little bits of feedback like you’re customizing your ramen that you sell in the shop. That’s cute. Yeah, no, I agree. It’s striking a nice balance of actually having stuff to do or feels like but not overwhelming you with all the crazy, mighty aspects of those crazy city builders. (0:25:16) Al: - Yeah, and it’s super cheap. (0:25:20) Kevin: Let’s see, oh, it released, it’s already out, how much should we take? (0:25:23) Kevin: Wow, it’s like five bucks, yeah, you’re right, roughly, yeah. (0:25:28) Kevin: I’ll have to check that out, probably, maybe, I don’t know. (0:25:32) Al: No, no promises. Never any promises. Yeah, I’m very tempted to try this out. (0:25:34) Kevin: It looks cute, no promises. (0:25:42) Kevin: There’s a yokai tree, wait, what does that mean? (0:25:46) Kevin: Is that why there’s a cat by walking around? (0:25:46) Al: It’s a tree with yokai, obviously. I also like how it starts out small, and when it starts out small, it’s like the actual area you have is small. So you don’t have like, (0:25:48) Kevin: Bye. (0:25:58) Al: One of the things about city builders quite often is you have this massive area. (0:26:02) Al: But you can only use a tiny bit of it but you still have to see everything whereas this is like here it focuses only on the area you have and everything else is nothing right it’s like this is the only thing that exists to you this is this is your focus and then as more areas become available to you then they become visible in the game which I really like (0:26:04) Kevin: Mm-hmm, right? (0:26:16) Kevin: Yeah (0:26:18) Kevin: Yeah (0:26:22) Kevin: Right, right, yeah (0:26:25) Kevin: Yeah (0:26:27) Kevin: All the customization options too looks like (0:26:29) Al: Or you can build tree houses. (0:26:31) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that’s what the yokai trees for (0:26:37) Kevin: Yeah, oh there you go, there’s your Boba cafe, oh shoot they got tenuki it’s off brand (0:26:43) Kevin: Tom Nook was running everything (0:26:46) Kevin: I (0:26:50) Kevin: This is tempting me, I won’t lie. I might actually look into it. He’s on the steam probably on the steam. It’s clickin (0:26:58) Kevin: Let’s team game on the odd bet it to find an audience on switch (0:27:02) Al: It is, it is only on Steam, yeah. (0:27:03) Kevin: Developers names you (0:27:05) Al: I can’t see any indication. (0:27:06) Kevin: Yeah, all right (0:27:10) Kevin: They’re probably not planning it now until the money rolls in (0:27:16) Kevin: Yeah, but man check it out folks Minami Lane. It’s cute (0:27:20) Kevin: If you like the soggy, I think whatever the thing was (0:27:24) Al: Usagi, Usagi Shima and Neko Atsumi, which by the way, we should probably mention, I guess, Neko Atsumi, they’re making a new, a new one, a second Neko. (0:27:26) Kevin: Thank you, there you go you like those check it out (0:27:37) Kevin: Yeah, they said all mad people like that for those bunnies we can’t let them steal our thunder (0:27:42) Al: Cool. That’s the news. Woo. So we are going to talk about what is definitely a farming game. Pixel cross story of season. (0:27:48) Kevin: Whoo (0:27:58) Kevin: You’re making things grow in your mind, Al. (0:28:05) Kevin: Okay, so first off, I mean simple. (0:28:08) Al: Yes, how to explain this game. (0:28:14) Kevin: Okay, you do know Picross, okay now that, but now put Story of Seasons on it, there you go. (0:28:20) Al: Yeah, I mean, so, so, yeah, so let’s let’s start out with, I mean, it is what you think is it’s it’s a nonogram, it’s a pie cross, whatever you want to call it. That is what it is. That is the game. But what’s quite interesting is that they have built a kind of self-creating farm in. (0:28:21) Kevin: This is the game. (0:28:23) Kevin: Guess what, I like both of those, it’s a good game. (0:28:50) Al: I’m not 100% sure exactly what’s happening, but I’m halfway through summer and I’ve not done that many puzzles. (0:28:53) Kevin: Mm hmm. Yeah. (0:29:08) Kevin: I thought it was one day per puzzle too, but you might be right. I don’t know. (0:29:18) Al: a few more days than I have puzzles done. (0:29:20) Kevin: Hmm (0:29:20) Al: But that aside, that aside, as you progress, you have your two, they’re like the horror, (0:29:32) Al: well, the story of seasons characters, the main ones. The harvest, yeah, but in 3D, (0:29:35) Kevin: the og harvest moon protagonists (0:29:39) Al: which is that they’ve recreated them in 3D, they are just going about doing a farm behind you. (0:29:45) Al: Now, they’re very slow, I would not take two seasons to start. (0:29:50) Al: Planting some seeds. But, I think it’s cute. (0:29:56) Kevin: Yeah, yeah. (0:29:58) Kevin: OK, let me take this to the back here. (0:30:00) Kevin: How much experience do you have with pickers and all? (0:30:03) Al: Oh, pretty decent amount, yeah. I’ve played a good chunk of the official progress ones. (0:30:05) Kevin: OK. (0:30:09) Al: I’ve played some many other ones. I had an app on my phone for a while doing some nonogram. (0:30:12) Kevin: Mm-hmm okay okay um that’s uh well you know because yeah that that’s the game right so if you’re you listener enjoy it you will enjoy this game undoubtedly so I think there’s two things we can look at it here first all the the story of seasons aspect of it because yeah that’s going on in the background but you’re just seeing it whenever you go back to the main menu. (0:30:16) Al: Yeah, you know, the usual. (0:30:42) Kevin: You can imagine with these themed puzzle games, all the puzzles are story of season related, right? (0:30:44) Al: Yeah. (0:30:46) Al: No, I’m actually looking at it right now. (0:30:48) Al: It’s completely paused while you’re doing puzzles. (0:31:06) Kevin: Your puzzles are going to be turnip and watering cans and characters from the story of season games. (0:31:12) Kevin: In fact, they have what’s called an almanac where you can just basically go through all the characters and stuff once you complete their puzzles, you get art and information on them and whatnot. (0:31:26) Kevin: And so it’s very much a story of seasons celebration type game as well, right? A lot more condensed, but it’s a fun little Hall of Fame. (0:31:41) Kevin: And on top of that. (0:31:42) Kevin: When big advantage it has over other (0:31:45) Kevin: The cross games you get that wonderful wonderful story of season soundtrack. They have a (0:31:52) Kevin: sampling from different games (0:31:55) Kevin: Um, and I really enjoy it, especially the wonderful life ones (0:31:59) Kevin: those those (0:32:02) Kevin: I (0:32:06) Al: I’m shocked, I’m shocked. (0:32:06) Kevin: So, yeah, that’s right (0:32:10) Kevin: So, you know, I give it thumbs up on (0:32:12) Kevin: that aspect from this little tribute game, right? (0:32:16) Kevin: But now looking at it, getting a little more in depth here from the cross side of it. (0:32:24) Kevin: I’m actually really surprised and pleased by how much of a control you can have over there. (0:32:32) Kevin: They give you a lot of accessibility and options to help deal with the puzzles. (0:32:36) Kevin: There’s color indicators to help you kind of see. (0:32:42) Kevin: There’s a clue you can look at here, or you’ve completed this row, or autofill empty spaces, etc. (0:32:52) Kevin: There’s a lot of options in my opinion, or at least compared to the ones I’ve played. (0:32:58) Kevin: And I think that’s cool. (0:33:00) Kevin: Me being who I am, I turn them all off, and I have just the grid with black and white numbers, (0:33:06) Kevin: and I go at it like that. (0:33:10) Kevin: because that’s how I like to play playgrounds, (0:33:11) Kevin: but, (0:33:12) Kevin: what, for people who maybe don’t enjoy it as much like I do in my crazy, miserable style, (0:33:20) Kevin: they offer a lot for that and, in fact, it’s the default. (0:33:24) Kevin: They ease your way into it, which I appreciate. (0:33:30) Kevin: I don’t know how many puzzles there are, but I feel like there’s probably a lot. (0:33:35) Al: There are a lot because I think there’s is it 30 on the first screen and then there are multiple screens and then there’s also 25 on the first screen but then but then there’s a good like seven or eight pages and then there’s also the mosaic ones as well that you build up as you go so yeah there’s quite a few. (0:33:42) Kevin: I… yeah, I think it’s 25 on the first… is it 30? 25, 30, one of them. (0:33:55) Kevin: Yep, the collage ones where you, you know, you do your different pictures, or different puzzles that form one big picture altogether, and I appreciate that, right? (0:34:09) Kevin: I played Pokemon Picross, which did a similar mechanic, and I’ve always found that a lot of fun. (0:34:15) Kevin: A clever way of doing, you know, a nice big picture that you can’t quite see. (0:34:22) Kevin: I, um, yeah, I mean. (0:34:25) Kevin: I don’t know, it’s- the game maybe feels small because it only has like two screens, basically, the puzzle screen and the main menu, but… (0:34:34) Al: I think, I mean, if you’re not used to Picross games, I can understand why you might think it was small, right? But like, I don’t know about you, but like, compared to most Picross games, it feels pretty standard. Size-wise. (0:34:48) Kevin: I guess so like I’m trying to think maybe I haven’t played as many as I like I (0:34:55) Kevin: Say the 3d ones I played Pokemon pick cross played Mario’s pick cross I’m trying to think I can’t remember the last time I played up across like s game or whatever. Um, so maybe you’re right (0:35:05) Kevin: but either way, it’s not really necessary because (0:35:08) Kevin: It’s just (0:35:14) Kevin: I (0:35:16) Kevin: I’m curious to see if… (0:35:19) Kevin: you know, once you complete certain sections from the almanac or collections or whatever, I’m curious to see if there’s any more. (0:35:26) Kevin: But, you know, all that’s just sprinkles on top. (0:35:30) Kevin: Yeah, what can I say? Spoolcross is really good, right? Like, it’s hard to critique it because it is what it is, right? (0:35:36) Kevin: It’s like Tetris, you know, Tetris. (0:35:38) Al: Yeah, I mean I also I really like the characters building away your farm in the background. (0:35:49) Al: I think it’s a really fun addition that makes it, like this is what makes it a story of seasons one, rather than just it’s across but also they’re all farming related, right? (0:35:52) Kevin: It is. Yeah. (0:35:58) Kevin: For. (0:36:01) Al: I mean obviously they’ve got some of the characters as them but come on. (0:36:02) Kevin: For. (0:36:06) Kevin: Yeah, you know, okay. (0:36:08) Al: So, I just double-checked there are 270 main ones and then there are five more collages which all have like 10 to 20 in them. (0:36:12) Kevin: Okay, I do. (0:36:16) Kevin: - That’s okay, yeah, that’s a good chunk, I appreciate that. (0:36:22) Kevin: All right, the bunch. (0:36:29) Kevin: Yeah, it’s something like that. (0:36:32) Kevin: Okay, one thing I will say, I do wish, because you’re right, (0:36:37) Kevin: the building up of the farm in the background, I think it’s cute and charming, right? (0:36:47) Kevin: I do wish they put it a little more up front. (0:36:50) Kevin: Like. (0:36:52) Kevin: I don’t know like maybe clearly saying, okay, complete three puzzles and you upgrade your barn or you get a cow in the background or whatever. (0:37:02) Al: Yeah. I’m actually wondering whether it might be time based, like real time based, or like the number of days you go in, because I just feel like I’m halfway through summer and they’re still breaking rocks. And I just, I feel like, I mean, I’ve basically only been playing it today, right? I haven’t, I haven’t played it before today. It only came out, what, two days ago. So I didn’t play it yesterday or the day before I played it today. So I, and (0:37:07) Kevin: I’m, yeah, that’s likely. (0:37:23) Kevin: Yeah. (0:37:28) Kevin: Yeah. (0:37:33) Al: it’s like most of these games designed to be play a few a day, then put it down. And so therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how they built up the farm is because that’s how they expect most people to play. It’s a couple of times a day. So each day the farm (0:37:39) Kevin: Yeah, I’m sure but those (0:37:52) Kevin: okay you know what that makes a lot of sense and you’re probably right and they’re also wrong because they should be wandering to the maniacs like me who just retreat and and just play pick rocks for hours and hours (0:37:56) Al: Yeah, I think this is the only game we could potentially cover this quickly after it came out, right? Two days. Two days and we’re already recording a podcast about it. I don’t think we’ve done that for any game. It is absolutely wild that we’ve done that. But it’ll be interesting. (0:38:16) Kevin: Well, when Story of Seasons Tetris comes out, we’ll do the same. (0:38:20) Al: We’ll check in. We’ll definitely check in. (0:38:26) Al: And in the future to see if it’s gone any further. Did you play in the last two days as well as today? What are your characters doing? Open up. (0:38:33) Kevin: Yes, I played. I haven’t played today, but I played yesterday and the day before um (0:38:39) Kevin: Um I think they’re roughly at the same place where you said I’m also I (0:38:44) Kevin: in summer I don’t recall how far I’m into it, but I spent some a lot of time in the (0:38:49) Kevin: the collage puzzle - (0:38:52) Kevin: But they’re I think they planted some seeds at this point (0:38:58) Al: See, mine haven’t. Nope, no seeds planted at all, so I, that does feel to me like it’s, (0:39:03) Kevin: I (0:39:06) Al: so I’ve finished. I’ve, yeah. (0:39:07) Kevin: Could be wrong. I might be misremembering um (0:39:11) Kevin: Like us like we said it’s only like when you go to the main menu when you see it right um so sometimes I’m not even paying that much attention. I’m (0:39:18) Kevin: They sometimes just looks like they’re just running around and just smashing stuff because that’s that was a lot of it at the beginning (0:39:25) Kevin: But I probably will stick with it, and I’m curious to see you know how big it will get (0:39:32) Kevin: It would have been (0:39:33) Kevin: I think it would have been a little fun to have a little more flourish during the actual puzzle - not inside the grid or anything But just maybe have the character standing around looking at the puzzle doing any moat or an action when something happens. You know what I mean? (0:39:48) Al: Yeah, yeah, that could have been fun. (0:39:50) Kevin: Just just a little something like that, right and and maybe introduce some other characters from the games Right because you have the almond I can that the puzzles or whatnot But it’d be nice to see him just hey walking by or saying hello or whatever (0:40:03) Kevin: But you know all that’s new thinking more or less because it’s pig cross really like it’s a double thumbs up for me (0:40:16) Al: No, I agree. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else we want to talk about this game. (0:40:16) Kevin: What the new Pokemon games pig cross sold [laughter] (0:40:28) Kevin: Uh, I mean, it was, yep, really simple, right? (0:40:29) Al: If you like Picross, you will like this game. That’s it. You should. (0:40:36) Kevin: And if, I will say, if you’ve never played pick offs, this is a fun one to get into. (0:40:42) Kevin: Yes, you should want to do it now to, uh, this is a good one to pick up. (0:40:48) Kevin: Like I said, there’s a lot of options and customizability and how you want to play. (0:40:53) Kevin: Um, and then I, I think it’s a very. (0:40:58) Kevin: Good entry point, not like that crosses anything crazy hard or anything, but it it makes you feel welcome. Let’s say (0:41:08) Al: I agree. It is definitely one of the most accessible ones, and it gives you it gives you an incentive as well. So if you do put on some of the hints and stuff like that, (0:41:12) Kevin: Yep, and the good music. (0:41:24) Al: it will indicate that that’s happened. It won’t penalize you, but it will indicate at the end that you used one of the specific things, which might give you an incentive to go, Oh, let me try doing it without those hints. (0:41:30) Kevin: Yeah, yep, yeah, yep (0:41:38) Al: I don’t like when they penalize you for doing stuff like that, (0:41:41) Al: but it’s fun to give you just a little bit of a nudge to be like, Hey, maybe try it. (0:41:44) Kevin: Yeah (0:41:46) Al: Maybe dry it, you know. (0:41:47) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely and (0:41:50) Kevin: Something of really minor detail that I haven’t seen in any of the I don’t think I’ve seen any other pick cross games I played (0:41:57) Kevin: It will actually record your time Which I think is fun. If you want to go back and see if you’ve improved any I got some tricks and whatnot (0:42:06) Al: Yeah, I managed to get the first level down to three seconds. (0:42:07) Kevin: Oh (0:42:11) Kevin: Jeez jeez man (0:42:14) Kevin: I probably could but I’m so methodical about my across like I know I could just look at it and solve it But I want to do it robot once I normally do (0:42:20) Al: Yeah, well, the good thing about that one is it’s just like the top three rows are all full and then the middle column is full. That’s all you need to do. So it’s like you can immediately see because it’s like four, you see four fives. So you just go across the fives and that’s it done. (0:42:41) Kevin: yeah yep yeah yes alright well I guess that’s that huh cuz I got nothing else for it um it’s a good one pick it again that’s pick pixel like you know you like the the squares you get it you get it out pixel story of seasons (0:42:41) Al: It was fun. It was fun to see how quickly I could do that one. And it’s literally just the only thing that’s stopping me is the fact that the buttons take time to move across. That’s it. (0:42:58) Al: Yeah, that’s fine. Play the game. (0:43:10) Al: Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you, Kevin, for joining me to talk about Pixel Cross Story of Seasons. I’m sure Mika will be sad that he wasn’t here to talk about it as well. (0:43:12) Kevin: something like that go look up google is where joe fine is (0:43:27) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, we’ll get him on when we went to be the second harvest (0:43:34) Al: Game of the year 2020 (0:43:37) Kevin: Well, look if you get is both on there’s a more than a non-zero chance of that (0:43:42) Al: Where can people find you on the internet, Kevin? (0:43:48) Kevin: Find me at Cooper Press for my personal Twitter on (0:43:52) Kevin: We’re currently now posting a lot of good dank memes about Pokemon legends (0:43:58) Kevin: Find me at spreader square to gonna see my art or find me at Rainbow Road radio The Mario podcast that I do with in this case last week out you were on (0:44:10) Kevin: Where we went through some Mario questions and discussed Brie Larson and most importantly we casted the (0:44:17) Kevin: live-action Mario movie (0:44:20) Kevin: So, you know buckle in for that one. What about you out? Where do people find you? (0:44:26) Al: Well you can find me on last week’s episode of Rainbow Road Radio. (0:44:30) Al: You can also find me on Twitter and on Mastodon at thescotbot. (0:44:37) Al: You can find the podcast on Tumblr and Twitter at THSPod. (0:44:43) Al: You can find links to everything we’ve talked about in the show notes and also on our website harvestseason.club where we also have a feedback form if you want to send us feedback. (0:44:54) Al: If you do that, it’ll probably get mentioned on the podcast. (0:44:56) Al: You’ll also find a link to our Patreon, patreon.com/thspod, (0:44:57) Kevin: Hey, there you go (0:45:03) Al: where you can support the podcast. If you do that, you will get access to the Slack, (0:45:08) Al: where we love to mock me. And we have been admiring Cody’s Fox Craft Island. (0:45:17) Al: You’ll also find bonus episodes of the podcast called The Greenhouse, (0:45:22) Al: Where we talk about things that are not, CODGECORE GAMES. (0:45:27) Al: Including either already out or coming out soon, depending on if I have any time tomorrow, (0:45:33) Al: will be me and Kevin talking about the Pokemon Day Presents and some stuff that happened in that. (0:45:44) Al: I mean, one thing, right? That’s what we’re going to be talking about, one thing. (0:45:47) Kevin: All right. (0:45:48) Al: Unless you particularly want to talk about the master’s updater. (0:45:53) Kevin: This is Thank you. (0:45:55) Al: All right, cool. Wow. Thank you. (0:45:56) Al: Thank you, Kevin, again, for joining me. Thank you listeners for listening and until next time, have a good harvest. (0:46:03) Theme Tune: The harvest season is created by Al McKinley, with support from our patrons, including our pro farmers, Kevin, Stuart and Alisa. (0:46:18) Theme Tune: Our art is done by Micah the Brave, and our music is done by Nick Burgess. (0:46:22) Theme Tune: Feel free to visit our website harvestseason.club for show notes and links to things we discussed in this episode. (0:46:38) Kevin: I mean, I guess it was the Marvel and Star Wars stuff, but I don’t know if Disney for Looper I don’t think Mickey Minuss has been in for it not yet (0:46:55) Al: scrolling down a list now. Marshmallow, some DC characters. This is a very long list. Alien, (0:46:58) Kevin: No goofy, immigrative. (0:47:05) Kevin: I’ll mope. (0:47:11) Kevin: Too long, some would say. (0:47:15) Kevin: Oh my gosh, he was in that. (0:47:22) Kevin: Solid snakes in there. (0:47:24) Al: It’s just such a long list, I feel like it’d be quicker to google it.

Kev and Jonnie talk about a number of demos they have tried recently. Timings 00:00:12: Theme Tune 00:00:43: Intro 00:02:46: Feedback 00:07:29: What Have We Been Up To 00:25:41: News 00:33:12: Demo Bonanza 00:33:21: Lightyear Frontier 00:43:04: Southfield 00:50:19: Rusty’s Retirement 00:57:36: Mika And The Witch’s Mountain 01:04:11: Outro Links Rusty’s Retirement Vertical Moment Ikonei Island Info Update Kynseed Big Build Update Farming Simulator 23 Content Update #23 Outbound Steam Page Outbound Kickstarter Page Lightyear Frontier Southfield Rusty’s Retirement Mika and the Witch’s Mountain Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:00) Al: Just before we get into this week’s episode, I need to apologize. We had a few audio issues in this episode, so yeah, sorry for that. We’ll get them sorted for next time. (0:00:44) Kevin: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season my name is Kevin, and I’m joined by our beautiful co-host (0:00:55) Kevin: There you go and today we’re here to talk about the cottagecore games whoo and all that (0:01:03) Kevin: More specifically actually we have a sampling platter of (0:01:08) Kevin: cottagecore games today because we (0:01:11) Kevin: Went out and tried some demos (0:01:14) Kevin: You know we’re gonna have I think we played with two each (0:01:20) Kevin: So there’s gonna be a yeah a good just good amount of discussion on different games (0:01:26) Kevin: But before we get into all of that (0:01:30) Kevin: Transcripts are available in the show notes and on the website as per the always (0:01:35) Kevin: And of course we’re going to get to the news and all that stuff as usual (0:01:43) Kevin: Also, oh, we should note… (0:01:44) Kevin: that Al is here in America, where I am, so, you know, I’m looking forward to hearing his misadventures. (0:01:52) Kevin: I’m just assuming he’s just smothered in burgers right now, as is the tradition. (0:02:01) Jonnie: I assume he’s smothered in tipping eggs. (0:02:05) Kevin: Oh man, yeah that’d be good, he’s just not gonna go to any restaurants, he’s gonna stick (0:02:14) Jonnie: Honestly, it would so put me off of having to travel to America is like, ‘cause A, tipping is stupid, and B, the anxiety of it, I’m just like, “Nah.” (0:02:22) Jonnie: I don’t need to deal with that. (0:02:22) Kevin: See, look, the easiest way to do it, a pro tip for all, but, well, okay, sure. (0:02:26) Jonnie: It’s not Visit America. (0:02:30) Kevin: If you are, somehow, find yourself visiting America, the pro tip is just do the credit card if you can, because then you just write it in, and nobody has to see, nobody has to know, and it’s all there. (0:02:44) Kevin: And you’ll never see them again, so, you know, it’s fine. (0:02:46) Kevin: Okay. (0:02:47) Kevin: Let’s see. (0:02:48) Kevin: stuff though, um, we actually have some feedback? (0:02:53) Jonnie: - Yeah, some feedback from, or I guess a correction from, (0:02:56) Jonnie: or corrections were the wrong thing. (0:02:57) Jonnie: Something that Al and I missed last week when we covered “Turn Up the Boy Robs a Bank” (0:03:03) Jonnie: is that there are actually accessibility options. (0:03:07) Jonnie: Neither of us picked up that those were in there and it changes quite significantly, (0:03:13) Jonnie: I think some of my criticism of the game. (0:03:17) Jonnie: So I can’t remember all of the accessibility options off the top of my head, (0:03:20) Jonnie: but I talked a lot about how I really hated the way (0:03:24) Jonnie: that gaming works in the game. (0:03:25) Jonnie: And one of the accessibility options is automatic aiming, (0:03:28) Jonnie: which I think is a really good accessibility option for this game. (0:03:29) Kevin: Yeah, oh that is a good (0:03:32) Jonnie: If you’re into the “Turn Up the Boy” sort of law, I guess, (0:03:37) Jonnie: and want to experience it, (0:03:38) Jonnie: like it feels like a good option for that. (0:03:41) Jonnie: So just want to highlight that that’s something that we missed and it’s a cool thing that they have. (0:03:42) Kevin: Yeah (0:03:47) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely cuz like you mentioned the calm I I’m the claim I didn’t play turn of boy myself, but my brother played and I witnessed most of it (0:03:56) Kevin: the combat is the weaker portion, right the the highlights the humor and the (0:04:03) Kevin: You know the chaoticness going on so kind of sidestepping that that was a good call (0:04:09) Kevin: Yeah, so good good stuff turn it boy good on you first (0:04:14) Jonnie: Yeah, and the other thing that we’ve got to talk about, so Elle and I talked about this last week, Kiv, but it would be sacrilegious to not get your take on what you think about wildflowers being on the April 1st. (0:04:27) Kevin: Well, first, my reaction, and I think I put it in the slash, is 3 and a half grand! (0:04:35) Kevin: Oh my goodness, I had no idea, like, oh my gosh, I know Apple products are pricey/overpriced, but holy moly. (0:04:44) Kevin: Now, I didn’t, I have to see the, what the farming looked like. (0:04:50) Kevin: Looks like it’s an interesting way of doing it, but I think all in all that sounds good. (0:04:55) Kevin: It’s, it’s so weird though because like, Wildflowers is very narrative/character driven, right? (0:05:05) Kevin: Which isn’t generally speaking the focus in a first-person/VR type game, but like you guys said, it, (0:05:12) Jonnie: So have you seen have you seen how the implementation? (0:05:16) Kevin: here, let me look, I’m gonna look it up right now, but I mean, overall though, I think it’s (0:05:20) Kevin: good to do it. I do think VR/augmented reality is a good idea overall. I think we’ll get there eventually, and so, you know, each baby step like this in different formats or different ways is, (0:05:42) Jonnie: Yeah, because I guess how it works is it’s less first person and it’s more like having it up on a screen, you know, kind of like one of the many screens that you can place around with the (0:05:50) Kevin: Right. Okay. That’s what the farming looks like. Okay. All right. Yeah, that’s what it is. Okay, that is (0:05:51) Jonnie: Apple Vision Pro and you can… (0:06:01) Kevin: It looks pretty cool. Um, I (0:06:05) Kevin: like the (0:06:07) Kevin: Yeah, no the farming bit look yeah, obviously like putting it in a (0:06:13) Kevin: On a screen like that is the way to go (0:06:16) Kevin: And the farming having the plots because it’s very the (0:06:21) Kevin: simple and very square slash grid like right so I think this is a good one for that (0:06:28) Kevin: because it’d be so easy to control you like it there’s not a lot of (0:06:34) Kevin: difficulties in in managing the farming aspect so that’s cool um and on top of that eventually you can automate some of that stuff so you can just skip it out right um but yeah now that looks uh Looks great. It’s I’m so happy (0:06:51) Kevin: Wildflowers is getting a second third win whatever whatever win we’re at (0:06:56) Kevin: With the the small DLC update and now this vision pro stuff (0:07:01) Kevin: I’m curious how much longer they’re gonna keep up the development (0:07:05) Kevin: But I’m here (0:07:08) Kevin: You know, I’m here for the long haul. I haven’t fired it up in a while immediately But I’ll wait till they announce maybe they’re done with everything and then see what’s going on (0:07:18) Kevin: All right (0:07:20) Kevin: Okay, so that’s that some of the (0:07:23) Kevin: House cleaning with the tend to from last episode, but now let’s talk about what we’ve been up to more recently Johnny I’ll let you go first. What have you been up to? (0:07:31) Jonnie: What have I been up to? (0:07:34) Jonnie: Because there’s been a lot of demos and trying out a lot of stuff, I feel like I’ve sort of reverted back to some comfy kind of nostalgia games in the past week. (0:07:43) Jonnie: I’ve been playing Diablo 4, partly because it’s something that I can play with friends and I moved countries recently, so it’s a nice game to do that. (0:07:54) Jonnie: But maybe more funnily, the reason we started playing Diablo 4 is because Diablo 4 has been the news a lot in the last week because they’ve been doing (0:08:01) Jonnie: very expensive cosmetic items that has generated a lot of media attention and I keep seeing headlines like Diablo 4 enters microtransaction hell and it’s silly things right like your town portal can change colour and I think it’s like you know 50 bucks or whatever for that cosmetic and it’s not entirely fair framing because I believe it comes with some of their (0:08:27) Jonnie: Premium or quite a bit of their premium currency as well (0:08:31) Jonnie: So you can can purchase other things but the thing that’s really kind of striking to me is the (0:08:38) Jonnie: The narrative around this is kind of describing it like it’s a bad thing look, if there are people out there that want to pay $50 for a (0:08:48) Jonnie: Cosmetic item that has like it’s not even on your character as you’re running around playing the game It’s literally the thing that you use to get to and from (0:08:56) Jonnie: locations. It’s not that significant in the game. And if people want to spend that amount… (0:09:01) Jonnie: for that cosmetic and that enables the developer. And I’m putting aside who the developer is and all of those sorts of things because I don’t really want to get into that discussion. But if this extends the life of the game and they’re doing seasonal gameplay and… (0:09:13) Kevin: What’s there to discuss about Activision Blizzard? (0:09:17) Jonnie: Yeah, let’s just avoid that one altogether. But if people want to pay a lot for those sort of things, and it means I as a casual player jumping in feel no need to spend money on any of that and it means I can keep investing in (0:09:31) Jonnie: developing new content for these games then great like I feel as a just for the campaign portion of the game it is fully justified as a full press game I had a lot of fun playing the campaign and if this is how they want to monetize the long life of the game go for it like the game is still very fun I have a good time of the I have a good time playing with friends I just find a lot of the narrative around ongoing monetization if we accept that that is part of the reality of games now this is (0:10:01) Jonnie: probably the least predatory way to do (0:10:04) Kevin: Oh absolutely. My two questions are, one, all the news I heard about what little I did was about the cosmetic stuff, but is there any stuff that boosts gameplay or effects mechanics or anything like that? Okay. Okay. Yeah. (0:10:22) Jonnie: no no so so it’s all yeah it’s all purchasable cosmetics yeah none of it really affects gameplay (0:10:34) Kevin: Okay, well then that’s yeah, all right who cares then also can you earn premium currency by playing or do you just have? (0:10:44) Jonnie: uh I feel like you can but I also feel like you earn even and I might be wrong um but I feel like even if you do earn premium currency it’s at a rate that’s so slow that you might as well not earn it at all because you would have to like I don’t know how you would actually save up enough of it to purchase anything uh but I can’t remember if that premium currency is actually locked behind um like a paid season pass thing so I can’t remember if it’s locked behind (0:11:04) Kevin: It’s a word. (0:11:14) Jonnie: a slightly different version of a paywall or if those are some of the the free tiers (0:11:22) Kevin: Right. Okay. Well, they, uh, like you said, who cares, right? It’s cosmetic. (0:11:26) Kevin: So whatever. (0:11:27) Jonnie: Exactly (0:11:29) Jonnie: And maybe i’m just like slightly biased, you know, because you and I both play marvel snap and that’s their approach as well Right you you generally you don’t pay to unlock cards Well, you cannot do like spending money on the game does increase the rate that you unlock cards somewhat, but not (0:11:34) Kevin: Yeah. (0:11:44) Kevin: Right, but it’s not explicitly you don’t pay money for a card exactly. It’s generally speaking just a (0:11:53) Kevin: cosmetic that happens to get you resources that can help you generate new parts, but (0:11:59) Kevin: But yeah, no, no. Yeah, I understand (0:12:04) Kevin: I guess like I think about you know Marvel snap is actually a very apt comparison because there’s (0:12:10) Kevin: Explicitly the price tag a hundred dollar bundles. I think there’s one going (0:12:13) Jonnie: Mm-hmm, yep. (0:12:14) Kevin: on right now. And yeah it doesn’t bother me like sometimes it’s a really cool one that I kind of wish I had but it’s not the end of the world there’s plenty the game is still fun doesn’t affect it and there’s plenty of other cool cosmetics I can earn but yeah no I get you um good yeah all right good way of doing it I (0:12:39) Jonnie: Yeah, and and like so to kind of come back to the actual game you know, I’m having a lot of fun with Diablo as just a thing to jump on with friends and kill a bunch of stuff and (0:12:48) Jonnie: You know have a good time. And I think the thing that I really appreciate about Diablo 4 is level scaling So the they have level scaling so it doesn’t matter what level you are. You can play with your friends and it’s a really nice version (0:13:03) Jonnie: Yeah, so you can play with your friends like when we’re playing, you know, one of our friends was level 90 I think I was the lowest level, I was like. (0:13:09) Jonnie: At level 90, he was significantly more powerful than I was even though the mobs were sort of scaled for us, as you would expect. (0:13:21) Jonnie: But I think that’s kind of fine, right? (0:13:23) Jonnie: We were able to sort of play together and not have it be where I wasn’t doing anything, but he was also able to enjoy the fact that he had put a lot more time and effort into building a more powerful character. (0:13:37) Jonnie: I thought it’s it’s a really nice (0:13:42) Kevin: That’s that’s pretty impressive because that’s a very difficult balancing act to do (0:13:47) Jonnie: Yeah. (0:13:51) Jonnie: Yeah, and then the other thing I’ve been dipping my toe back into is Old School RuneScape. (0:13:56) Jonnie: I played Old School RuneScape when it was just RuneScape, and I love dipping my toe back into it every once in a while. (0:14:00) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:14:05) Jonnie: It’s such a goofy game. I love it. (0:14:06) Kevin: Oh man. (0:14:10) Kevin: It’s such a very distinct flavor. (0:14:13) Kevin: I was actually thinking about dipping back in just last week. (0:14:17) Kevin: I don’t remember why, but I might do that then. (0:14:20) Jonnie: Do it, Kiv. (0:14:22) Jonnie: Send me your username and I will add you and we can see each other online and oh my god, okay. (0:14:26) Kevin: Yeah. (0:14:27) Jonnie: I don’t know that you were an old-school RuneScape person, but please, please. (0:14:30) Kevin: Yeah, the middle, that was definitive middle school gaming. (0:14:37) Kevin: Yeah, what’d you do in the computer lab when you had the time or nobody caught you or whatever? (0:14:37) Jonnie: Exactly, yep, that was that was the A draw. (0:14:46) Jonnie: Oh, well maybe at some point we should do a greenhouse episode on Old School. (0:14:47) Kevin: Yeah, good stuff. (0:14:50) Kevin: I was thinking that I was about to say that stay tuned for Stay tuned for our RuneScape greenhouse! (0:14:56) Jonnie: Oh, yes. (0:14:58) Jonnie: Great. (0:14:59) Jonnie: Cool, alright, we’ll leave that one there then. (0:15:02) Kevin: I have a few things to talk about in the next episode of the M1C, but the M1C will be in the next episode of the M1C, but the M1C will be in the next episode of the M1C. (0:15:04) Jonnie: Kip, what have you been playing? (0:15:08) Kevin: Okay, it’s been a minute since I’ve been on, so I’ve got a few things. Actually, all the stuff kind of was in the last week. (0:15:16) Kevin: I’ve been playing a lot of games, I guess. (0:15:18) Kevin: First, shout out to Rainbow Road Radio, the Mario podcast host with mutual friend Alex. (0:15:24) Kevin: We covered Mario vs Donkey Kong, which came out just yesterday, well, from the time of M1C. (0:15:30) Kevin: I did not purchase the game myself, Alex did, but I played the demo. (0:15:36) Kevin: Have you played any of the Mario vs Donkey Kong games at all, Jonny? (0:15:40) Jonnie: I don’t even think I’ve ever heard of a Mario vs Donkey Kong game. (0:15:46) Kevin: Okay. So, it is, so right, the original Donkey Kong arcade game, right? The debut of both Mario and Donkey Kong. (0:15:56) Kevin: If they reinvented re-imag- I won’t even say that. (0:16:00) Kevin: This game was originally on the Game Boy Advance. They did a remake for the Switch, that’s what we discussed. (0:16:09) Kevin: It is a puzzle kind of platformer game. Essentially, you’re presented with a level with platforms and obstacles like spike pits, jumps you have to make, switches, things like that. (0:16:30) Kevin: It’s not a horizontal scrolling type level like standard mario’s, it’s just one screen. (0:16:38) Kevin: And you have to figure out the puzzle of how do I get to the key, what order do I have to clear these obstacles or flip these switches, and then you get the key to the door. (0:16:50) Kevin: And that’s kind of the gist of the gameplay. It’s fairly straightforward, but they add a lot of depth, they add a lot of obstacles and stuff like that. (0:16:58) Kevin: Um, the Switch Remake specifically… (0:17:00) Kevin: It’s very nice presentation (0:17:04) Kevin: The the game is the premise is centered around these little toys called mini marios (0:17:11) Kevin: So a lot of the games (0:17:13) Kevin: Enemies and things like that are toy versions of Mario enemies very cute very reminiscent of Link’s Awakening remake art style (0:17:22) Kevin: very colorful and fun I enjoyed the demo Alex enjoyed the game that he played thus far (0:17:30) Kevin: Yeah, check that out. That was that’s a fun one (0:17:34) Jonnie: Nice. I might have to check that out. I love a puzzle. (0:17:34) Kevin: aside from that (0:17:38) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s great and they added new stuff for the remake right so it’s got a substantial amount (0:17:45) Kevin: It’s not just a short GBA (0:17:49) Kevin: Venture Yeah, I definitely recommend at least people should check out the the trailers and stuff just to see how the cute little mini marios are (0:17:59) Jonnie: or people should check out rich road radio rainbow road radio (0:18:00) Kevin: And (0:18:04) Kevin: That your rainbow Road radio, that’s correct. No, don’t worry. I’ll be plugging that later (0:18:12) Kevin: Aside from that Disney speedstorm have you heard of this one Johnny? (0:18:16) Jonnie: I have not heard of this. (0:18:19) Kevin: Okay, it is a (0:18:22) Kevin: Just came out last year. I believe it is Disney’s version of Mario Kart. Um, it’s part racing game with Disney (0:18:30) Kevin: here’s okay, so (0:18:33) Kevin: it’s (0:18:35) Kevin: It I’m two ways about it because on the one hand the actual racing is fantastic It’s a strong Mario Kart type game the if you’re a big fan of Disney, you’ll get even more enjoyment out of it (0:18:49) Kevin: With the music tracks the characters pretty wide variety of characters. They have Pixar and Disney, but here’s the kicker (0:18:57) Kevin: It’s free to play which do hey, that’s cool. You don’t spend money (0:19:00) Kevin: But it is slathered with loot boxes, season pass, microtransactions, just filled to the brim with it. (0:19:13) Kevin: And it’s not prohibitive, but you do have to know how to invest your resources. (0:19:23) Kevin: Because you get plenty of resources, basically the kicker is you have to level up your characters, (0:19:28) Kevin: racers that affects their stats and that actually (0:19:31) Kevin: does affect your performance in races, including the single player. (0:19:35) Kevin: In fact, I would say primarily the single player, which is what I’ve been playing. (0:19:41) Kevin: And so getting the resources is the challenge. (0:19:44) Kevin: You have to win certain races, do certain objectives, get from boxes, yada, yada. (0:19:51) Kevin: So it is a limited amount you get, at least like daily, but if you just invest them smartly, you can get through the races. (0:19:58) Kevin: Okay, but so you know (0:20:01) Kevin: That’s kind of a bummer how grindy you can feel at times But the grind is fun because the game itself is really fun They it as you can expect from disney money. The presentation is pretty stellar like I said the (0:20:15) Kevin: All the visuals the audio is good. They got (0:20:19) Kevin: Not every voice actor but a good majority of them. They didn’t get you know, john goodman for sully, but uh (0:20:27) Kevin: They got ariel’s voice actress, which is pretty cool. Um (0:20:31) Kevin: And i’m a big disney fan. So i’m uh, i’m thoroughly enjoying the game. Um (0:20:37) Kevin: and it’s like on every console or Platform whatever and you can move your account and all that good stuff. Um (0:20:46) Kevin: so I uh I I I enjoy I kind of recommend it if you’re a big disney fan in particular (0:20:56) Jonnie: This sounds like the sort of game that in a different stage of my life I would have got very into and it’s more that I just don’t have space for another like daily check-in game in my life at the moment. (0:21:06) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, now that’s understandable um I (0:21:10) Jonnie: And how would you say the racing compares to like a Mario? (0:21:12) Kevin: I think (0:21:14) Kevin: Overall the the pacing is faster in general. There’s a big emphasis on boosting and has a boosting mechanic (0:21:24) Kevin: The number of power-ups are (0:21:29) Kevin: They’re general. I don’t know if they’re smaller the actual amount, but they’re less impactful. Let’s say right (0:21:34) Kevin: There’s no blue (0:21:36) Kevin: Shell or lightning. There’s nothing super chaotic like the most (0:21:40) Kevin: There’s a shield you can get there. You can fire like a homing disc (0:21:46) Kevin: They do put some fun twists on it because the power-ups you can actually (0:21:52) Kevin: Have variations some you can charge up (0:21:55) Kevin: You can hold the button down and charge up the power-up to do something different some you can throw backwards others. You can’t (0:22:02) Kevin: uh… and most interestingly uh… every character (0:22:06) Kevin: has a unique uh… power-up uh… that matches their character right um… so for instance uh… ariel has a really fun one when you use her special skill she uh… (0:22:19) Kevin: these little uh… (0:22:21) Kevin: the trinkets and artifacts uh… just uh… spawn on the racetrack and if you collect them you get a higher top speed which is cute uh… there’s other ones like stitch he’ll just start blasting all her crazy like with his ray gun. (0:22:36) Kevin: Sully will roar at people and it’s just cute to see the ones that they do and how they match each character. (0:22:46) Kevin: But yeah, overall it feels less chaotic than a Mario Kart because Mario Kart is just utter chaos with everything flying around. (0:22:58) Kevin: It is a bit more straightforward racing but still enjoyable. (0:23:06) Kevin: And one more I’ve got to talk about, Moonstone Island. (0:23:10) Kevin: Funnily enough, you guys talked about the update last week. (0:23:16) Kevin: I was playing before the update dropped, I didn’t even know it was coming. (0:23:20) Kevin: You can see there was an update on Steam. (0:23:22) Kevin: I have actually not hit credits, I don’t know if you can hit credits in the game, but I completed a full year and defeated the final boss. (0:23:30) Kevin: I did a whole episode on that and I think my feelings are more or less… (0:23:36) Kevin: They added the marriage and that was fine, but it’s not enough to change the entirety of the game. (0:23:44) Kevin: There’s still a lot I like about the game, but there’s also a lot that it feels lacking. (0:23:50) Kevin: But hopefully they’ll keep updating it and we’ll see it get to a better place. (0:23:54) Kevin: The one thing I will definitely give them props for is the monster design. (0:24:00) Kevin: The hands down winner, the new ones they added, is called… (0:24:06) Kevin: …the bread mouse. It is a toaster with a piece of toast in it with a little face on it and the toast will pop out. (0:24:16) Kevin: But yeah, I still kinda recommend it. I went back to it, right? (0:24:22) Kevin: There’s enough for me to actually go through the whole year. (0:24:24) Kevin: Yeah. (0:24:26) Jonnie: And that’s a big thing, I guess, you know, in this year or, you know, in modern time. (0:24:32) Jonnie: Going back to a game is a really good sign, because there’s so many games that we get to play, (0:24:40) Jonnie: and you can try something and be like, “Oh, that was fun,” but you never really feel the need to go back to it, and you’ll be scrolling through your library, and you’ll be like, “Oh, (0:24:46) Jonnie: I never went back to that.” And you kind of realize, like, while it was fun, there wasn’t that hook to pull you back. So anything that can do that, I think, is a solution. (0:24:50) Kevin: Yeah, yep, yep, there’s something almost like I keep going back because I want it to be good right like I had fun going through the bosses and everything the last fight is actually very challenging but I just I still wish there was like a story giving me a reason that I’m hiding this thing. Oh, you know, I’m just gonna spoil (0:24:56) Jonnie: It’s kind of a pretty good game. (0:25:20) Kevin: it for anyone who cares the boss’s name is missing no actually just straight up missing no like Pokemon’s missing number but but yeah so that and hey I did I can pat myself on the back and close it for now unless something update comes. Ah, but yeah, that’s what I’ve been up to a lot of stuff and speaking of a lot of stuff we got news actually I don’t think it’s that much news but we got some items here so let’s let’s get into it first up. (0:25:50) Kevin: Alpone Island, yeah, console releases are still coming, but we don’t have any date yet, (0:25:57) Kevin: and they’re doing improvements to the UI, which is always good. (0:26:02) Kevin: I feel like, oh man, UI design, it’s so critical, but it feels so underappreciated, even just from the dev side, but you know, so I do appreciate them putting some effort on that. (0:26:20) Jonnie: Yeah, so I guess the key to this one is that they kind of recognize that their launch on Steam was a little bit rocky. (0:26:25) Jonnie: They got kind of hit with a few bugs that were probably unexpected. (0:26:29) Jonnie: And so they’re just calling out that they’re still fully intending to do their console launches, (0:26:34) Jonnie: but also recognizing that it’s probably going to take a bit more work than they initially intended. (0:26:38) Jonnie: So no official date as of yet, but I really appreciate this sort of communication. (0:26:45) Jonnie: and probably unsurprising that when you have a launch on Steam. (0:26:50) Jonnie: And you get hit with some bugs that you didn’t expect like, it’s not only that it can be disappointing sort of, you know, that that happens and disappointing commercially, but it could also be like it’s just hard right when you put a lot of time, effort and love into into a game like this. (0:27:05) Jonnie: And, you know, it’s very hard to predict we all know that building games is difficult. (0:27:11) Jonnie: So, I think it’s a good sign that they’re taking the time and not putting the additional pressure on to, to get the, to get those things done. (0:27:12) Kevin: Oh yeah, absolutely. (0:27:18) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely yeah, and even just in this (0:27:24) Kevin: Cottage cord subspace there’s plenty of games, so there’s definitely no need to rush (0:27:30) Kevin: I agree, it’s good for them to be clear for one to folk it to (0:27:36) Kevin: Plan things out like this right like they’re gonna delay it and to be clear about it (0:27:41) Kevin: So I (0:27:42) Kevin: Think that’s a sign of a good developer. So, you know, I hoped for that console release eventually (0:27:49) Kevin: Kinseed has a what they call the big build update Great. (0:27:58) Jonnie: Yeah, so the the big build update is hot now and I guess the key to this one is it introduces farm customization (0:28:06) Kevin: Yeah, uh (0:28:08) Kevin: So I have not honestly I have not seen that much about (0:28:13) Kevin: But boy that art is beautiful. It is wow that’s some lovely lovely pixel art (0:28:19) Kevin: Yeah farm customization is the big one. They have actually they have a big list of stuff on Steam you can see (0:28:27) Kevin: They even adjusted some of the story pacing (0:28:31) Kevin: Let me see. Oh, that’s cool NPC a talent system for NPC That’s really cool improvements to their progress screen (0:28:41) Kevin: You can (0:28:44) Kevin: Not just customize it not just not visual customization for the farm, but actual structures that can improve (0:28:52) Kevin: like your shelters for your animals and (0:28:57) Kevin: Things to make travel and commerce easier. Um, if this is a pretty hearty update. Oh batch crafting. There’s the (0:29:04) Kevin: That’s the one everyone loves (0:29:06) Kevin: That’s a lot of that’s a lot of that’s a big update. I appreciate that. I’m gonna have to check this out This is some really pretty art. I totally forgotten about this one I don’t like and like I said, that is out now already on Steam. Is it anywhere else? (0:29:18) Kevin: I don’t remember but at there at least on Steam, okay (0:29:22) Kevin: Let’s see next up. We have oh, this is fun one a game called outbound (0:29:31) Kevin: Let’s read the blurb shall we (0:29:35) Kevin: Build your own home (0:29:36) Kevin: Come on wheels and live sustainably off-grid Craft workstations and power supplies Source energy from the sun, wind, or water Upgrade and customize your vehicle Grow crops, automate your production, and explore a colorful world That’s a lot of stuff to do from a vehicle (0:29:54) Jonnie: look this game looks incredible so so I guess the the shorter summary we’ll keep just read out is you’re driving around in a in a minivan that you live in and you can customize I’ll put a note down here that I well I was on board before this but the moment that got Al was they built an insane structure on top of the campervan which I think is amazing from what they’ve shown you know being able drive around the world, dick out. (0:30:24) Jonnie: The game is a bit of a game, but it’s a bit of a game. (0:30:32) Kevin: Yeah, it’s a very pleasant visual style too, it’s full 3D cell shaded, I think is probably the best way, or closest approximation, I would say. (0:30:47) Kevin: This is very interesting, right? Because so many farm games, they’re centered around the farm or the base, right? (0:30:56) Kevin: But this one’s mobile, so, like, how, that will make sense. (0:31:02) Kevin: This will make, I assume, traversing between different little mini bases, because they show you can build structures on the ground and stuff, so I assume you can build little buildings and things like that. (0:31:13) Kevin: I wonder how big the map will be if you have a car, like, there’s a lot of potential there. (0:31:18) Kevin: It looks like wind turbines on the top of this thing. Oh, that’s great. I hope you can go really high, I want it to look absurdly ridiculous. (0:31:30) Jonnie: And it’s I guess in terms of like this game is being announced. They have a (0:31:35) Jonnie: Kickstarter page like but no no campaign launch or launch date. So probably just want to keep our eyes on (0:31:46) Kevin: Um, all right, so that is, again, Outbound, that’s a fun looking one. (0:31:52) Kevin: Um, and actually, that’s it. (0:31:55) Kevin: I think we’ve covered most of the news. (0:31:55) Jonnie: Oh we got one more one more (0:31:58) Kevin: Well, one more by yes, but I’ll let you take this one. (0:31:59) Jonnie: We’ve got farming some farming simulator farming simulator 23. Yeah, you scroll past it (0:32:02) Kevin: Wait, what? (0:32:04) Kevin: Oh, oh, I missed it. (0:32:04) Kevin: You’re right. (0:32:05) Kevin: I skipped it. (0:32:05) Kevin: Yeah, I did. (0:32:08) Kevin: Wait, they do content updates for these guys. (0:32:10) Jonnie: Yes, they do lots of content updates for farming simulator they’ve got all the farming freaks and (0:32:14) Kevin: I thought each year was the con- (0:32:16) Kevin: content of the- laughs (0:32:17) Jonnie: No, there are there are updates within the content updates (0:32:22) Jonnie: So this one introduces a new to. (0:32:25) Jonnie: a new video. (0:32:36) Kevin: And no (0:32:40) Kevin: I do enjoy seeing the reactions from the people who are fans, right like (0:32:46) Kevin: the I remember years back when they finally brought John Deere into farming simulator just the (0:32:54) Kevin: the (0:32:56) Kevin: The height was (0:32:58) Kevin: Through roof from the farm simulator community (0:33:03) Kevin: That’s that’s pretty fun (0:33:05) Kevin: All right, yeah, the boat (0:33:07) Kevin: I’ll put an exclamation point. I wonder if he knows who that is. I don’t know that company (0:33:13) Kevin: Alright, let’s just get into the demos Johnny. I’ll let you take the first one. That’s I chair to the class what what demos you’ve been (0:33:22) Jonnie: So I guess the first one that I’ll kick off with is Lightyear Frontier. (0:33:26) Jonnie: And as I wrote that down, I’m actually questioning, is that the name of the game? (0:33:29) Jonnie: Because we’re in the classic word salad of games where you start looking at things, (0:33:38) Jonnie: and then you wonder, is that right? Or is it something else? (0:33:42) Jonnie: It is… Yeah. Right. (0:33:42) Kevin: This is not one lonely outpost or whatever that one’s called. That’s the other space future one [laughs] (0:33:52) Jonnie: So yeah, so Lightyear Frontier is the mech space farming game. (0:34:00) Jonnie: And actually, having played the demo, I feel like farming or cottagecore game (0:34:05) Jonnie: is maybe not quite the right description. To me, it feels maybe more similar to (0:34:17) Jonnie: like a survival game. So the premise is you are dropped on a planet with (0:34:22) Jonnie: your mech and you are the only thing on there. I think part of it is the intent is maybe more for like do it with friends, right? So there might be three or four of you and you explore the planet and sort of build and establish a base more so than a farm. Like farming is definitely an element of it, but I guess that’s kind of the core base of the (0:34:42) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it definitely feels more, as you said, survival as great like no man’s sky or perhaps power. (0:35:00) Kevin: But okay, tell me how is the mech though, right? Because that’s that’s the differential to the star of the show How does it feel oh? (0:35:08) Jonnie: the mech is unfortunately disappointing and there’s one very clear reason for it and I get where they’re going I just don’t think it works in execution so what happens with the mech is you know it can jump higher you can get in and out of the mech so you’re not always in the mech and there are elements where you need to be outside of it but what happens I think in order to sort of limit traversal around the world as the mech is not great. (0:35:12) Kevin: No (0:35:39) Jonnie: If you are on unstable ground, it is highly likely to fall over and then you need to get out and you need to right the mech. (0:35:40) Kevin: Oh, no. (0:35:47) Jonnie: I get why they want to limit some of the traversal. (0:35:52) Jonnie: I assume it might be that you can get a higher jump or a longer boost later in the game, but it just doesn’t feel great. (0:36:04) Jonnie: You know to me part of what I want to feel when I’m in a mix is like I am like (0:36:08) Jonnie: Human plus and in many ways it feels like you’re a human - we (0:36:12) Kevin: Right, absolutely, like, I’m looking at the trailer and one thing I’m seeing is that the actions you do from the map feel very similar to what you could do in any other sort of survival game, right, collecting resources, planting, etc, etc. (0:36:36) Kevin: And, I mean, obviously the visuals match the Mac you’re using tools and gadgets. (0:36:42) Kevin: And what not to do it. But like you say, when you’re when I’m in a mech, I’d want to be more than human plus I want to be outrageously absurdly powerful and doing nonsense right like I just want to low, if I’m going to clear a lane, I want to do it just in till a field I want to do it in just one button push, you know, something like that, something absurd and over the top. (0:37:06) Kevin: And I’m not really seeing that, which is unfortunate. (0:37:08) Jonnie: Yeah, and I didn’t really feel that in the gameplay, so that was unfortunate. (0:37:14) Kevin: Yeah, what about the the rest of it right? (0:37:18) Jonnie: So I think the rest of it… So I think it’s well known that I’m not a particularly big fan of survival games, (0:37:24) Jonnie: but I even feel that in the realm of survival games, this one suffers from not really having a clear identity of what it is. (0:37:36) Jonnie: So if I think about something like you know the classic Minecraft, Minecraft is all built around the creativity aspect of what can you build and what can you do in this world. There’s no narrative element, it’s just come up with whatever narrative you want but this is the game which is great for what they’re doing. Something like Pylia is like hey go out into the world and beat these bosses right so there’s there is more of a here’s an objective of a thing to do. Now you can talk about how good it is at doing that but it’s (0:38:08) Jonnie: very clearly there. In Lightyear Frontier there is a narrative aspect that is so you’ve got an AI (0:38:22) Jonnie: counterpart that’s like watching over you and giving you guidance I guess is is probably the way to describe it and you’re landed on a planet there’s some allusions to you know like why didn’t humanity come here and you know explore this planet and you know you’re gonna clean up some of it (0:38:38) Jonnie: but it doesn’t feel particularly like the narrative doesn’t feel particularly compelling or strong like there was a few quests that kind of were meant to introduce it to you but they kind of just feel like they appeared and I didn’t really feel like I had a compelling reason to go and do those I didn’t care about completing the quests right like it was more just like here’s a task to complete and then on the other side I didn’t get that like the building side of it (0:39:08) Jonnie: and I didn’t feel strong enough that I was like oh but like that I could see how I want to build out this planet it more felt like kind of just standard base building stuff so to me it felt stuck between all of the different aspects of what a survival game could be and just wasn’t really (0:39:28) Kevin: Yeah, I again, looking at the trailer, I can I can get that like, I think a concern just from looking at it, the house you can build is like a little wood cottage type ranch home and in a mech game, you know, I’d hope for a big hulking metal robot base. (0:39:50) Kevin: So I can see that it feels like they’re trying to go in two different directions. They’re going through all the usual trappings of these survival. (0:39:58) Kevin: Type games, but they’re trying to do this next stuff, but not enough. So that’s that’s a tad unfortunate, like, honestly, just looks like a more colorful no man’s sky again. (0:40:11) Jonnie: Yeah. I don’t know that I have a huge amount else to say on this game, and I guess my takeaway is, (0:40:19) Jonnie: you know, sometimes you play a game and you’re like, “I didn’t enjoy that, but I know the sorts of people that would enjoy it, right? I know who I would recommend the game to.” Unfortunately, (0:40:28) Jonnie: with my time with Lightyear Frontier, I kind of left it thinking, “I don’t know who this game is for.” It feels too much like we built a thing where, you know, it’s sort of like Mad Libs. (0:40:41) Jonnie: And I guess that’s probably something we should say maybe not right up front, because now that we’re a little bit into the conversation, but there’s a huge possibility that these things could change, (0:41:09) Jonnie: All right, um (0:41:11) Jonnie: And I think for me the thing that would need to change with lightyear frontier (0:41:14) Jonnie: In order for me to go back in is I would want to hear about this game having a clear direction in terms of what it is whether that’s adding a lot more narratively or you know really going into what it means to clean up the planet and to (0:41:30) Jonnie: Build a base or do whatever the thing is that you’re aiming to do on this planet (0:41:34) Jonnie: Uh, I would just like to see more of a direct (0:41:40) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s unfortunate and they have the big hook they have the mech right like if they got in all in on that right like (0:41:50) Kevin: customize it to be just (0:41:52) Kevin: Ridiculously different builds or whatever right like I think of you know armor court six I don’t know if you’re familiar with that that was the big mech game from from software (0:42:01) Kevin: Like that’s the sort of thing. I want to see from Mecca’s (0:42:04) Jonnie: And I think that’s a really good sort of like point to raise is that, you know, and I think we talked about this a few weeks ago, the tools just kind of feel like the tools that you would have anywhere else like it doesn’t feel like they’re really taking advantage of the of the mech and some of the cool things that it could do, you know, you’ve got this big open game, give us a, you know, a super fast boost. (0:42:26) Jonnie: Like, I’ve not played Armoured Core 6, but I’ve seen the gameplay of Armoured Core 6, and you kind of take all of the aspects of that game. (0:42:31) Kevin: right like yep (0:42:35) Jonnie: And you delete them. And that’s what playing a mech in this game feels like. (0:42:39) Kevin: yep yep oh man that’s that’s disappointing but uh it is still technically early access so you know who knows maybe one day we’ll we’ll see improvements maybe they’ll hear this episode down the ground grapevine and then then then then they’ll go all day but um all right there you go Well, that’s lightyear frontier. (0:43:00) Jonnie: - Yes, that’s my first tempo. (0:43:01) Kevin: All right, I want to talk about Southfield. (0:43:02) Jonnie: Kip, what’s your… (0:43:08) Kevin: So we covered this relatively recently on the podcast last time I was on with Al. (0:43:14) Kevin: They’re hook, they’re premise. (0:43:16) Kevin: It is a physics-based farming, your cottagecore type game. (0:43:21) Kevin: It is, so if you watch the trailer, see the images. (0:43:25) Kevin: You can see just from the visual style what they’re going for. (0:43:28) Kevin: You’re playing as this very (0:43:31) Kevin: round colorful I call it gun gumdrop creature um with goofy cartoony eyes and and just like no fingers or whatever just brown ball hands and this demo is fascinating because (0:43:48) Kevin: unlike other demos it’s not a they’re up clear about it up they’re clear and upfront about it it’s not a like example of a level or whatever this is kind of a (0:44:01) Kevin: proof of concept they want to uh show what they want to go for that’s how they describe it now that said the it is a fairly robust and complete uh demo uh it is very large and the kicker is you can’t save but it yeah yeah it’s rough so like if you want to if you think you’d enjoy this you’ve got to clear a couple hours because it is a it is a very amply sized uh demo (0:44:17) Jonnie: Oh no! (0:44:31) Kevin: both in terms of like the area you can cover and the amount of things you can do it uh so going to the main hook of the the physics space portion so for instance right in your standard farming game when you want to harvest a crop you you just push the button and you collect the resource right maybe you put it down with a sickle or whatever right in this game you have to grab the fruit Whatever it is, and you actually have to pull that sucker out like it (0:45:01) Kevin: will stretch cartoon style and you have to yank it off in a very sort of satisfying way of doing it. It’s not all completely fixed space, for instance when you’re plowing the the ground it’s still a grid based sort of system as is the usual, but for instance when you’re watering it’s not just water square by square it’s like you’re you actually just can run around and just rush all and spray water everywhere as you’re doing it. (0:45:31) Jonnie: This game just looks incredible. I love this. I have like- I love the- (0:45:31) Kevin: The Legend of Zelda Series is a very bright, bouncy, colorful cartoon. It’s a dedicated combo button. You can just roll around and roll around. (0:45:38) Kevin: Everything about it, even as you’re playing the mechanics, all feel like how it looks. For instance, there is a dedicated combo button where you just kind of roll up into a ball and then you can just start rolling around like a Goron from The Legend of Zelda Series. (0:46:02) Kevin: It’s very fun, it’s very cute. There is a huge, like, 30 or something crops that you can grow in the demo. (0:46:14) Kevin: And they do get into some of the other aspects, like building and crafting and whatnot. (0:46:20) Kevin: In particular, the automation stuff where you can construct conveyor belts and things like that. You can see in some of the trailer, like, you can have these wacky… (0:46:31) Kevin: bouncing fruits on the conveyor belts as they’re moving along. So it can… the possibilities are… they’re vast. Like, I can’t even imagine the nonsense that will come out of this game. (0:46:44) Kevin: And overall, like I said, it’s a real… it sucks that you can’t say it because I want to play this more and more, but having to restart every time is a real bummer. (0:46:57) Kevin: bummer but yeah the whole demo as a whole is very sandbox (0:47:01) Kevin: like here’s the island go here’s basically all the things you can do and just go do whatever right I don’t know what the if they’re gonna try to go with a narrative thing because they have some other NPCs and characters which are fun in design and have personality so maybe they’ll lean into that I don’t know but it is still overall I think a great demo I’m excited for the game I’m glad the demo didn’t disappoint because just what looking at the. (0:47:31) Kevin: very excited by the visual style and I’m definitely keeping my eye out for this and you know, (0:47:40) Kevin: whenever how long it will take to get a big game actually done. (0:47:43) Kevin: So definitely a thumbs up. (0:47:45) Jonnie: I loved the look of some of the automation in the game where they set up the conveyor belts and like fans and was that in the demo? (0:47:53) Kevin: Yes, yes it was. I can’t remember fans, but I think it was. I didn’t fiddle around with the animation too, too much, but they definitely had a lot of different components that you could mess around with to basically achieve the sort of stuff you see in the trailer with fans pushing them and bouncing and things like that. (0:48:11) Kevin: Yeah, I’m definitely a thumbs up from me on Southfield. (0:48:16) Jonnie: game looks, it looks incredible. My feeling looking at this game is it kind of gives me the silliness that I feel like an Ooblets was going for and Ooblets massively failed to deliver on because it just tried to be absurd. This feels like absurd with a purpose, right? That’s, to me, that’s the appeal is like the ragdoll physics style element and what you’ve said about like it’s not everywhere, (0:48:27) Kevin: Yes. (0:48:42) Jonnie: right like the the hoeing being more grid-based as well. (0:48:46) Kevin: Yeah, it’s it’s still grounded. Yes, right (0:48:47) Jonnie: That to me says a lot because yeah it’s grounded there’s still intention behind it and doing that those things where it makes sense right here like Ublitz was just like we’re gonna make everything silly because that’s the thing we do we’re silly look at how silly we are and it’s like hey you kind of just cringe in lane right like whereas this looks just amazing. (0:49:06) Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. I I fully agree with that because (0:49:11) Kevin: Yeah, nothing felt nothing felt bad like for better lack of way of putting oh my gosh I think I’m looking at the trailer again I forgot there’s this fruit that will just start growing if you don’t harvest it quickly enough. It’s it’s pretty fun (0:49:25) Kevin: Yeah, they have the cannons. Yeah, all this stuff is in the demo looking at it. There’s not like your dog I don’t remember that but oh, yeah, I think the vehicle was in there, too (0:49:33) Kevin: But I agree like it’s very thoughtful (0:49:36) Kevin: in its design. It’s goofy as much as it can be but still absolutely grounds it with working systems. And honestly I had the same feeling of like this is kind of what I want Ooblets to be like because it’s bright and colorful but not ridiculously like I don’t I don’t know what it is about Ooblets something about the names that always throw me off about Ooblets but but here it’s just so much fun. I mean just looking at the (0:50:07) Kevin: It’s it’s great. Yeah, so I don’t think we have a any date or anything like that for Southfield yet, but (0:50:15) Kevin: Keep your keep your eye out for it because I think it’s gonna be a great one (0:50:20) Jonnie: Alright, so Rusty’s Retirement is a game I’m very excited about, I’ve been very excited about, (0:50:28) Jonnie: and I was very excited to try the demo. I feel like the idea of an idol-ish farming game that kind of just sits at the bottom of your screen is genius and something that I had (0:50:42) Jonnie: not considered and something I didn’t know that I wanted until I saw the trailer. (0:50:46) Jonnie: And I was like, yeah, I really want to play this. (0:50:50) Jonnie: Good. (0:50:51) Jonnie: And having played the demo, it seems like it’s exactly what I wanted it to be. (0:50:57) Jonnie: So you have your farming plots that sit at the bottom of the screen. (0:51:01) Jonnie: You select a crop, you plant it. (0:51:04) Jonnie: Rusty, he goes out and he’ll plant the crops, (0:51:07) Jonnie: or he’ll order them, he’ll harvest them. (0:51:10) Jonnie: You can purchase robots that will help with the automation, (0:51:14) Jonnie: effectively just increasing the number of tasks that you can complete. (0:51:20) Jonnie: The first crops you grow, then maybe they take a minute or two. (0:51:24) Jonnie: And then as time goes on, the crops take longer and longer to grow. (0:51:27) Jonnie: And you just need to grow more of them to unlock future stuff. (0:51:32) Kevin: You’re right. Okay (0:51:33) Jonnie: The demo has some pretty obvious blockers on it. (0:51:39) Jonnie: I assume you’ll be able to purchase more land. (0:51:41) Jonnie: There are some big bits on the screen that we just grade out with the words demo across them. (0:51:46) Jonnie: I’m sure there’ll be more buildings and stuff like you could buy. (0:51:50) Jonnie: a few buildings in this one, but nothing significant. (0:51:56) Jonnie: It was just kind of everything. I was hoping it was going to be. (0:52:01) Kevin: okay so the prison like the visual is very cute I actually like the style a lot um my question is (0:52:09) Kevin: how intrusive do you find it right like because it’s running at the bottom of your screen (0:52:16) Kevin: like how frequently are you checking in or how much is it distracting you (0:52:22) Jonnie: Yes, I don’t know if it’s fair to say, Chris, this is probably the thing that I hope changes the most as the game goes from demo to full implementation. (0:52:33) Jonnie: And I should call out that they’re very explicit that the demo is a work in progress and that a lot of things will change. (0:52:42) Jonnie: So in terms of how intrusive it is, I’m playing on a laptop with, you know, like a 15 inch screen and a monitor. It’s a textual monitor that’s like. (0:52:52) Jonnie: Maybe 27 inches and it does feel quite intrusive. They do have options where you can keep it up permanently or have it minimize, which is which is handy. (0:53:02) Jonnie: It did feel quite intrusive, but they’re one of the good things that I guess has come out of the demos. (0:53:10) Jonnie: They’ve announced that vertical mode is coming and I think the vertical mode would change it quite significantly. (0:53:15) Jonnie: I think there’s quite a difference to it being on the right of a screen versus. (0:53:22) Jonnie: It being sort of on the bottom in terms of the amount of screen real estate it will take up. (0:53:27) Jonnie: So I really like that change. I think that makes a lot of sense and it’s something that I’m very excited for because I think I would I would be much more likely to have it up permanently if I was playing in vertical mode versus horizontal. (0:53:40) Kevin: Okay. (0:53:41) Kevin: Yeah. (0:53:42) Kevin: I, I guess I can see that. (0:53:44) Kevin: I guess also like just how much like in terms of attention, does it, (0:53:50) Kevin: does it track from you, right? (0:53:52) Kevin: Like, is this something you would run while doing something? (0:53:56) Kevin: I don’t know, a work type task or, or is this something just while you’re watching videos or like, how, yeah, how much of your attention? (0:54:06) Jonnie: Yeah, so I think this is the other thing that I kind of hope changes in the full implementation is that it slows down a bit. (0:54:13) Jonnie: So I felt like it was requiring too much attention for what it was. (0:54:20) Jonnie: But again, that’s sort of a pass I’m willing to give it because it’s a demo. (0:54:23) Jonnie: And I think it felt like, you know, to me, it felt like that was intended because you kind of progress to purchasing some of the buildings and getting a lot of the resources. (0:54:34) Jonnie: what felt like very quick for a game of (0:54:36) Jonnie: this sort and I wouldn’t be surprised if in the in the full implementation everything else was slowed down so I feel like I did everything within the demo you know which which goes from starting with not a lot to generating you know thousands of gold within t

Join us today on “Coping” where Kathy and Kevin discuss the value of exploring personal and family origin stories. Learn how understanding where we come from fosters connection, perspective and empowerment to overcome current challenges and practical ways you can discover your origin story to help you adjust the path you may be on now as an adult. Kevin Well, hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of "Coping". We're excited to continue our conversation from our last episode. Kathy Yes, welcome everyone. Last podcast, if you remember, we began to discuss this interesting topic of story and the story myths that hold us back. And in this episode, we want to continue discussing the idea of how our past stories shape our current stories. Kevin That's exactly right. Our past reveals where we came from. In movies and comics, this idea is what's called an origin story. And some of the best movies are the movies that delve into those origin stories. What makes the character today who they were and that's where they came from. And so what's so fascinating is watching these backstories can actually provide us with insight into how the hero of the story or the narrator of the story acquires their superpowers, how they face loss and overcame that. And when they were dealt hardship, how they came out on the other side. And what caused them to become who they are today, flaws and all. Kathy Yeah, that's all so fascinating. I personally love all things history, past origin. So let's get started. Kathy Well, like I mentioned before, I have a fascination and love for things of the past and history. I loved history when I was a student in high school and college, almost considered majoring in it. I'm obsessed, sad to say, with ancestry.com and going through, clicking on those of you who know ancestry .com, you click on these leaves that are of the tree. You just keep clicking and clicking and I don't really allow myself to go on anymore because I'll just spend hours delving into the history. And a few years ago, we took a trip to New York City. Kevin Yeah, and I know that you love my family history because they came through Ellis Island. So there's a lot of documentation about their travels, clicking on those leaves and then being there, standing in Ellis Island, looking at the records where my great, great grandfather on my father's side traveled from Ireland and then signed his name in the book, for the records coming over to America. And then on my mom's side, my great, great grandfather also came over from Italy. And so, just to go from a website where you're searching and, you know, creating links for my family tree and then to stand there and to see the signature written and to see the pictures of the ships that they traveled on and to create literally stand exactly where they would have stood in line. Kevin There's something really powerful about that and how it becomes so real and so vivid. And for me personally, to connect my story back generations, fills me with a lot of meaning and connects me to my past in a way that I just didn't know existed. Kathy It's really quite powerful stuff. Yeah. We remember, those of you who have been to Ellis Island, there's a ferry that takes you and to think that we were seeing the Statue of Liberty just like they would have, was a very moving experience for both of us. And yeah, it just, it's about the power of connecting to your past. Kevin That's right. And I have a, you know, interesting family, immigration story of my grandparents coming from Italy and then also from Ireland. But you also have a really fascinating immigration story. Can you speak a little bit about that? Kathy Yeah. So my family did not come through Ellis Island. My parents immigrated to Florida in 1971 and that's how we came to America. They came by way of plane to this country. My dad had a new job at a brand new university and I was 18 months. So I am actually an immigrant as well. I was not born in this country and I became a citizen when I was 18. Why do you think, exploring the past is so important? Kevin Well, you are the history buff and I am the story buff, if you will. I think there's a few different things that make looking at our past and knowing our origin story so important. And the first thing is connection. Understanding our stories did not begin with us makes us feel less alone and helps connect us to the bigger story that's unfolding. And that's exactly what happened for me. I recognize that a lot of the struggles and hardships that I face in my life are generational. And I had a renewed sense of hope that if my ancestors were able to overcome the transition from what they knew to a new world and were able to build a better life to put me in the position that I am, surely I can overcome and deal with transition and hardship much like they did, that it's somehow in my blood, that it's in my lineage, that if they did it then I can do it too. Kevin And that story made me feel far less alone and really proud of what they did for me and that what I can then do in their honor in my story as it unfolds. Kathy Absolutely. The power of connecting to the past, that connection that you mentioned, is so crucial. We're all right now feeling like we're so disconnected and this is a very tangible way to try to find some connection in our lives. Currently we are in a story class journey with Be Well and we're reading Leslie Leyland Fields, "Your Story Matters". She has a very powerful quote about the past. She says, "the past is not done. It lives on in us no matter how cleverly we disguise ourselves, no matter how fast we try to run from it. When we don't turn and look behind us, we lose our way, even our very selves." Kathy And so I think the second thing that exploring our past does for us is it gives us perspective. So as you talked about connection, I'm sure part of that was also perspective. I mean looking into the story of my family gave me a lot of perspective. It's almost like looking into an old mirror. We see ourselves in an old mirror, but we also can see those who came before us and their experiences give us a new lens from which to look at our lives. How does it give us a new lens? Kevin Say more about that new lens. Kathy So for example, if I look through the lens of my life right now through the lens of my parents, again, it's a story of overcoming. It's a story of a new life, a new hope, a new future for the next generation. It's exactly what we hope for our children that my parents hope for us. And so this perspective is now connected to the story, the greater story of my family. And when I looked behind me, immediately I could see a lot of links that could frame my current perspective now. It helps diminish the feeling of being all alone and disconnected and it can provide, this new perspective can provide a lot of strength as well I would say. Kevin Yeah, and that leads us into the third thing that we gain when we take time to look at our past, and that's empowerment. Empowerment is all about getting us re-engaged with how our story unfolded and how it's still unfolding. And so what that did for me really is helped me to recognize that although in my past things happened to me when they were out of my control when I was young, as an adult, I can take my story, all that has happened, and be an active participant in writing my story going forward. And so there's a sense of empowerment that if this is what has happened behind me and I look at my life that's still ahead of me, if I want my life to be different, I can make those changes. And that's really empowering to recognize that the story is not over. What has been written is not gone. And if it's not gone, if it's still with me, I can continue to write a new story for myself going forward and reframe what has happened and how I got to where I am today based on where I end up. Kevin And that's what the origin story is all about. No matter where you came from in the hardship that you've endured, those things can propel you into the kind of future you want to have and give it that much more meaning. Kathy Yes, absolutely. It just is unlocking a lot of things for us when we go back into the past. And we want to be mindful that we understand that delving to things of the past can be hard. It can be painful. It can bring up a lot of trauma. As we embark on this journey to write our stories in our journey class, we have encountered that this past week when we began to map our stories. So mapping is this process of basically putting down all the highlights and the events and the key memories and it was hard. It was challenging. Our group was saying that they wanted to give up at some point and said they wanted to shut those doors. They didn't want to delve, go there, basically. Kevin Right. It's hard to look back. The origin stories are often filled with darkness. And like I said before, there's a sense of disempowerment that happened to you when you were too young to recognize that it didn't have to be that way. Kathy Right. Kevin And too young to have any sort of power to affect change. Often when you are delving into your origin stories, that kind of work is best done with, and within a therapeutic relationship that you're sitting with somebody who has the training to do some meaning-making, some conversational processing with you so that you can make sense of your past and you can delve through it in a healthy and safe environment and to gain the type of perspective, connection and empowerment that we're talking about. Kathy Yeah, absolutely. It is work that, what we wanna say is this isn't work that can be done alone. In our community, we are doing it together and we were able to reconvene and decide that we're gonna continue to move forward in finding a way to our past. We're gonna unlock those doors again, but we're just gonna find a different pathway there this next week. And what we have found so far is we have found these three keys that we just talked about, connection, perspective, and empowerment. Kathy And as I mentioned, from Leslie's book, "Your Story Matters", she has this quote which I think really sums up why, again, this is so important. It's a great summary for our discussion today. She says, "writing the stories from our past enables us to live them again, but this time we live them wiser and better." Kevin So good. And so we have these three keys, these three things that we gain when we look at our story and we know that we can live our stories again wiser going forward, but how would you suggest our listeners do that in their own origin stories? Where's the starting point for that? How do you begin that work? Kathy Yeah, this is a great question. This is a practical step that you can take if you're listening today. One would be if you do have any living relatives that have some stories that they can share with you about the history of your family. If you don't have any living relatives, you can go on to ancestry .com. This is not a commercial for them, but we wish they would reach out. But if you go there and you know some dates and names, and if your family has been here a couple generations in America, that would be the other thing I would say, at least two generations here in this country, you could just log on. And in the free version, you can find out a lot of discoveries. Everything from marriage certificates to census reports, ships registries; that's what Kevin found at Ellis Island. They're all online. Kathy It's so fascinating. So those are the two things that I would say is, reach out to a relative who can share stories, or you can also go online and look through that. Kevin Yeah, I think the other way that I mentioned before is, if you start diving into your story and you recognize that there's more darkness than you may be able to face on your own, turn to a therapeutic relationship, initiate a therapeutic relationship if you don't have one, or bring some of those stories to your therapist to help have a trusted person walk you through some of those difficult stories. I would also say, too, take your relatives' stories with a grain of salt. If you come from a family like mine, where there's divorce and division within the family, there's different versions of the same story that are being told. And so it's hard to know what is the truth. And the reality is that whatever story is being told by that person, that's their truth. Kathy Their perspective. Kevin And the work I've done with my therapist is to take parts of those stories to form my own. And know that the greater truth is that all of those things are part of who made me who I am and to work through each of those things individually, but then to make sense of them for how I want my story to unfold going forward. Kathy And I would say a final way for those of you who want to dive into your stories, in addition to what we said is a couple of episodes back when we were going through grief, we talked about this process of listing. And we are using it in our current class as mapping. So basically what you do is you take some sticky notes and a poster board and you are going to map out the different time periods of your life. It's a brainstorming exercise where you're able to list memories, events, highlights. Kathy We will be able to give you a link to a resource called Life Events that might be able to jog your memory. We'll attach that to this episode notes. And I just, I'm excited for you to dive into this because we just see the value of it so much. Kevin Yeah, so just to recap, we want to encourage all of you to take some time to delve into your origin story. What makes you who you are? Where have you come from? All of those things will inform where you are going next. We hope that as you delve into those stories you'll find some connection, you'll find some perspective, and gain some empowerment in that. Kevin And so to conclude our podcast today, I'd like to offer a traditional Irish blessing for the journey that you still have ahead. “May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face. The rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, may God hold you in the palm of His hand. May God be with you and bless you. May you see your children's children. May you be poor and misfortune, rich in blessings. May you know nothing but happiness from this day forward. May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. May the warm rays of sun fall upon your home. And may the land of a friend always be near. May green be the grass you walk on. May blue be the skies above you. May pure be the joys that surround you. May true be the hearts that love you. Amen.”

Al and Kev talk about Moonstone Island Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:05: What Have We Been Up To 00:14:27: News 00:54:26: Moonstone Island 01:47:58: Outro Links Spells and Secrest Update One Lonely Outpost New UI Sneak Peek Orange Season 0.11 Wylde Flowers Eury’s Salon Update Re:Legend News My Time at Sandrock Plushies Paleo Pines Plushie Tchia Soul Meter Update Spirittea News Stardew 1.6 News Southfield Sugardew Island Sugardew Island Kickstarter Sunkissed City Abyss: New Dawn Abyss: New Dawn Kickstarter Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al. (0:00:36) Kevin: I’m, well it says “blank” in the show now. (0:00:40) Kevin: That just reminds me of Pokemon Gold and Silver. (0:00:43) Kevin: I was one of those guys who named my rival question my question word question word. (0:00:47) Kevin: Hello everyone, my name is Kevin. (0:00:49) Al: And we’re here today to talk about cottagecore games. (0:00:53) Kevin: Whoo! (0:00:54) Al: So the behind the scenes on that is, was it last episode? (0:00:59) Al: Neither Johnny nor Bev knew how I traditionally introduce. (0:01:02) Kevin: Yeah, there you go, yeah, you know me, I’m going to. (0:01:03) Al: So I wrote it down. (0:01:05) Al: I wrote it down in the show notes so that people always have it now. (0:01:10) Al: And the first episode we have it in, Kevin comments on it. (0:01:14) Al: So, great. (0:01:19) Al: Well, as usual, transcripts for the podcast are available in the show notes and on the website. (0:01:26) Al: This podcast, this episode, this episode, we are going to talk about Moonstone Island, (0:01:33) Al: the creature collection farming, like there’s only one, one of the creature collecting farming games. (0:01:36) Kevin: Yeah… (0:01:42) Kevin: You don’t talk about religion? (0:01:44) Kevin: Is religion one of them? I don’t remember. (0:01:46) Al: I can’t even remember if that’s one other thing. (0:01:48) Kevin: I don’t know. I still- I don’t think religion exists. (0:01:52) Al: That game smashed together so many buzzwords. (0:01:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:01:58) Al: Before that, we’re going to cover news. It has been a busy news week, (0:02:03) Al: so we’re going to cover all of that. But first of all, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:02:08) Kevin: Alright, so, uh, first of all, Tears of the Kingdom, I’m still- I’ve- (0:02:14) Kevin: I don’t remember the last time I talked about it here, but I’ve played it in the background kind of… (0:02:20) Kevin: …uh, on and off, um, I’m not a- I’m not going for completion, but I am trying to hit every shrine. (0:02:29) Kevin: Every light route, and all that stuff. (0:02:32) Kevin: Um, I’ve already finished the deaths, I finished all the main story beats except for beating Ganon, (0:02:37) Kevin: and I’m over 100, uh… (0:02:38) Kevin: Shrines at this point, so I’m nearing the finish line. I might finish by next week. (0:02:43) Al: You’re doing the sensible completionist, not the full completionist. (0:02:44) Kevin: You know… (0:02:48) Kevin: Exactly. That’s correct! (0:02:51) Kevin: And that game is a blast. You know, of course, needless to say. (0:02:58) Kevin: Small stories, spoilers for people who don’t want to listen. The Fifth Sage (0:03:03) Kevin: was a real surprise. I think that’s a giant robot, and (0:03:07) Kevin: Monero is a fun to- (0:03:08) Kevin: to- a blast to run around with, um, and I’m so glad I got her early on, her relative. (0:03:15) Al: Yeah, my fun fact about her is that I got her before any of the other sages, because I just happened across her and did it. (0:03:22) Kevin: Yeah. (0:03:24) Kevin: That’s… (0:03:26) Kevin: That’s so wild, that’s so cool. (0:03:29) Kevin: Um, my brother Calvin, he didn’t do her until like after he beat all the shrines, so… (0:03:35) Kevin: He just like, “Well, I got this cool run and I don’t have anything to do with it!” (0:03:40) Kevin: Um… (0:03:42) Kevin: But yeah, no, uh, Tears of the Kingdom, great game, needless to say. (0:03:45) Kevin: Um, I’m just, haven’t been having a blast at that. (0:03:47) Kevin: Um, I’ve picked up Smash again this week, uh, (0:03:50) Kevin: They are releasing some new spirit. (0:03:52) Kevin: It’s like the fifth anniversary, something like that. (0:03:55) Kevin: Sakurai refuses, cannot be stopped from working on that game. (0:04:01) Kevin: But a good reason to pick up again and smash a smash, always fun. (0:04:06) Kevin: Aside from that, the Rainbow Road obligatory shout out here. (0:04:13) Kevin: Rainbow Road Radio, some of the stuff I’ve been talking about on that show recently. (0:04:18) Kevin: Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga the game (0:04:22) Kevin: Boy Advance RPG. We did an episode on that and boy that game is amazing! I played it when I was younger, it was amazing back then and I’m glad that it is still fantastic now. (0:04:38) Kevin: Have you played any of the Mario and Luigi games? Al? (0:04:40) Al: I have not. That was the one you covered last week, in the last episode, right? Yeah. I enjoyed listening to that. It was good fun, but it did confirm to me that I probably don’t want to play it. So I’ve played a couple of the Paper Mario games, and I’ve played what was the Mario RPG last year, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I don’t think I like turn-based battles anymore. And that’s fine. (0:04:41) Kevin: Yes. (0:04:52) Kevin: Yes. Mmhmm. Yep. Mmhmm. Sure. (0:05:10) Al: For that reason, I suspect I wouldn’t like this game, because that’s a huge part of the game, right? (0:05:16) Kevin: It is. Right, but like one of the joys in my opinion where it succeeds is it’s very dynamic even for turn based game because of the (0:05:28) Kevin: The counters and the the timing and jumping these it’s still repetitive (0:05:34) Kevin: actions (0:05:34) Al: So I understand that, but actually I think that makes it worse for me because it’s not turn-based battling then, right? (0:05:40) Al: Like it’s turn-based with a little bit of real time. (0:05:44) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:05:45) Al: So because I had that in Mario RPG as well, they did that. (0:05:46) Kevin: - Yeah? (0:05:47) Al: It’s like, oh, if you, if you, if you press the button at the right time, it increases your attack, or if you press it at the right time, you get, you take zero damage. (0:05:48) Kevin: They did that? (0:05:56) Al: And it’s like, okay, well, I need to do that then. (0:05:58) Al: And there are so many battles where you basically can’t win it unless you do, or you obviously (0:06:04) Al: have a ridiculous degree, unless you do those things. (0:06:07) Al: And to me, it just turns for, it just makes it annoying because it’s like, I can’t just do a turn-based battle. (0:06:13) Al: It’s turn-based battle, but I also have to have the right timing, which to me takes away the advantage of the turn-based battles. (0:06:14) Kevin: Yeah. (0:06:18) Kevin: Mm-hmm. (0:06:20) Al: So I understand why people would like that, but for me, it doesn’t, it actually makes (0:06:21) Kevin: Okay. (0:06:25) Kevin: Yeah. (0:06:25) Kevin: I- I get that, right? (0:06:27) Kevin: Because, yeah, one of the advantages of turn-based battles is definitely turn your brain off, sort of thing. (0:06:32) Kevin: Um. (0:06:33) Kevin: Yeah, no, I- I- I can see that. (0:06:35) Kevin: Um. (0:06:36) Kevin: But, uh, regardless, the game’s fantastic. (0:06:38) Kevin: It’s hilarious. (0:06:38) Kevin: It’s amazing. (0:06:39) Kevin: Uh. (0:06:40) Kevin: Go listen to that episode of Rainbow Road Radio if you guys haven’t heard it. (0:06:44) Kevin: And check out that game if you guys haven’t played it, it’s still a- or 20, whatever, however many years it’s been. (0:06:47) Al: It’s 20, 21. (0:06:49) Kevin: Um. (0:06:50) Kevin: No, I know. (0:06:51) Kevin: I don’t- I don’t know what it should be. (0:06:52) Al: No, it was definitely a fun listen to hear you two talk about it, even if I know I’m not going to play. (0:06:54) Kevin: Um. (0:06:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:06:58) Kevin: Thank you. (0:06:59) Kevin: I appreciate it. (0:06:59) Kevin: Um. (0:07:00) Kevin: And, uh, well, now talking about the episode that will be released out at the- when this episode is- of Harvest Season’s out. (0:07:08) Kevin: Um, I watched something called The King of Kong. (0:07:11) Kevin: Have you heard of this at all, Al? (0:07:12) Al: No, I thought you were just saying King Kong in a funny way. This is like an actual “I have not, what is this?” (0:07:18) Kevin: Nope. (0:07:19) Kevin: Yep. (0:07:20) Kevin: Okay. (0:07:20) Kevin: So, The King of Kong is a documentary from like, 2007, I believe it is. (0:07:26) Kevin: Um. (0:07:27) Kevin: It was- it’s- it- it’s not super high production. (0:07:32) Kevin: It’s not like a big m- Hollywood movie release. (0:07:35) Kevin: It was directed by, uh, Seth Gordon, who ended up becoming a successful big Hollywood director because of this documentary, actually. (0:07:44) Kevin: Um, but it is a smaller, uh, project, it is a documentary about, uh, a- I should describe this- a competition of sorts between- a rivalry, let’s say, between a man named Billy Mitchell and a man named Steve We- Weebie, uh, over getting the world record in Donkey Kong, the arca- original arcade game, um, right? (0:08:11) Kevin: And so the way– (0:08:14) Kevin: The way this documentary is filmed and presented, it’s a very underdog story because Billy Mitchell is a world champ and record holder in like 10 different games like Pac-Man, Mrs. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong Jr., etc., etc., right? (0:08:28) Kevin: And then Steve Weebie’s just like this teacher with just a dad and all of a sudden he comes and gets this record and there’s a lot of drama involved because Billy Mitchell is closely associated with the– (0:08:44) Kevin: It’s called Twin Galaxies, the group that essentially is the authority on the records at that time of these types of arcade games. (0:08:54) Kevin: So like, for instance, one of Weebie’s early record attempts, he sent in a tape and they didn’t accept it because they said they needed to see it in person, yada yada. (0:09:06) Kevin: And so he goes in person and creates a new record, but then Billy Mitchell sends in a different tape and that one gets accepted because– (0:09:14) Kevin: And so there’s a lot of back and forth and drama. (0:09:18) Kevin: And it’s a good watch. I recommend it to people who haven’t seen it. (0:09:22) Kevin: But it’s interesting because the story does not end there. (0:09:28) Kevin: We watched some follow-up documentary and actually there’s been some court cases in the news. That’s why we kind of brought it up now. (0:09:36) Kevin: So I won’t go too much into detail of whether you guys can listen to the episode over at Rainbow Road Radio if you want to hear it. (0:09:44) Kevin: But long story short, Billy Mitchell is an awful, awful person who wants to be number one and will stop at nothing and step on everyone and backstab and control the narrative to do so. (0:09:49) Al: Oh. (0:10:00) Kevin: That much you can easily see in the original King of Kong documentary, so that’s not a shocker. But seeing the extent of how that goes, it’s a wild story. (0:10:14) Kevin: So again, that is called King of Kong. That’s the original documentary, but there is even follow-up documentaries made by more amateurs and stuff investigating more about the story. (0:10:26) Kevin: So it is a wild tale over several decades. (0:10:30) Kevin: But yeah, that’s what I’ve been up to. What about you? What’s going on with you? (0:10:30) Al: interesting. Yeah just before that I noticed that the Seth Gordon the director he did he did the 2017 Baywatch film as well this is like yes yeah so like yeah when you say he’s done Hollywood stuff he’s at he’s done proper big Hollywood stuff as well (0:10:44) Kevin: Yeah, and he did Horrible Bosses, that comedy with, I don’t know what it’s called, but yeah. (0:10:52) Kevin: Yeah, yep, yep. And King of Kong was kind of his breakthrough. Everyone took notice. (0:10:59) Al: Well, what have I been up to? I have obviously been playing Moonstone Island quite a bit for the last couple of weeks. Yeah, the behind-the-scenes stuff is we were meant to do this episode two weeks ago and I messaged Kevin on this Friday and said, “Can we delay the episode because I’ve played like 10 minutes of the game?” I just had not… We’ll get into that with stuff but I just had not. (0:11:06) Kevin: Yeah, I played a good bit too. I didn’t play it the last week. (0:11:29) Al: Managed to push myself to properly play the game. (0:11:31) Al: So I have now played a decent chunk of the game. (0:11:34) Al: So, um, yeah, we’ll, we’ll actually talk about it. (0:11:37) Kevin: Now we can talk about it, yay! (0:11:39) Al: Um, I’ve also been, uh, trying to finish up Hollow Knight as well. (0:11:44) Al: So I managed to get back into it and I’ve defeated a big chunk of the bosses. (0:11:49) Al: And I think I’ve got two bosses left to go. (0:11:52) Al: Um, so I’m, I’m getting there, but, uh, yeah, we’re getting, we’re getting pretty difficult, getting pretty difficult. (0:11:57) Kevin: Okay, oh, I bet oh my gosh. I’ve seen some of those later bosses Jesus wheez that’s some nutty stuff That’s off to you Hollow Knight people (0:12:06) Al: Yeah, it’s interesting because the one I’m currently on is like, it’s not the actual individual boss isn’t difficult, but the difficulty of it is there are six of them. And you have to defeat like all of them before, yeah. And they’re all, and they can do up to two at a time. So like doing one of them at a time would probably be reasonably easy. I probably would have done it by now. But the problem is then they suddenly go, “Oh, and here’s There’s a second one you have to deal with at the same time. (0:12:18) Kevin: Oh! It’s a gauntlet. (0:12:36) Al: You’re like dodging one, but as you dodge one, the other one gets you. (0:12:39) Al: You’re like, no, so it’s like there’s so many times where it’s like, I would have definitely beaten it if it weren’t for the fact that I had two at a time and stuff (0:12:46) Al: like that. So, yeah, it’s it’s pretty it’s it’s interesting how you can have that. (0:12:51) Al: Right. Like it’s not it’s not a very difficult. (0:12:52) Kevin: Oh my gosh, yeah that sounds gnarly. (0:12:53) Al: They’re not difficult bosses, but putting them all together like that makes it very (0:12:58) Al: difficult. (0:13:00) Al: So, yeah, but it’s been good fun. (0:13:02) Al: I think I’ve managed to get, uh, like four of. (0:13:06) Al: Um, so I got pretty close that time, frustratingly close, but we’ll get, we’ll get there soon, we’ll get there soon. (0:13:11) Kevin: Dang oh my god (0:13:15) Al: Um, so yeah, no, that’s really, it’s really good fun. (0:13:17) Al: Um, I’m definitely at the point in that game though, where I do not want to explore anymore, I do not want to backtrack anymore. (0:13:23) Al: Like I have done all of that. (0:13:25) Al: I just want to get to the last boss and kill him and be done with it and get onto the next game when it comes out. (0:13:30) Al: Right. (0:13:30) Al: I, the becomes a point with those games where you’re like, I’m done exploring. (0:13:34) Al: Thanks. And the problem is… (0:13:36) Al: Obviously, Medtrivenia is the whole point of them is exploring and backtracking. (0:13:39) Al: So they don’t have a lot of fast travel. (0:13:42) Al: There is some, but it’s not a lot of it. (0:13:44) Al: So you still have to do a lot of traversal of the map to get from boss to boss. (0:13:48) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, I get that. And Hollow Knight’s a special case because the DLC is just stuck in there, like, you can’t tell where the DLC is at a glance, right? (0:14:00) Kevin: There’s no DLC menu option, like, you’re doing over a hundred percent. (0:14:06) Al: Yeah, I haven’t, I haven’t even paid attention to what I’m doing there. (0:14:10) Al: I suspect at this point, I’m just, I’m going for the like final main boss. (0:14:15) Al: And if I’ve done any of the DLC stuff, then fine. (0:14:19) Al: But I don’t think I’m going to like focus on any of that. (0:14:22) Kevin: Yeah, no, no, yeah, that makes sense, it’s a wide one, it’s a big game. (0:14:26) Al: Super fun. (0:14:28) Al: All right. (0:14:28) Al: Awesome. (0:14:29) Al: Well, that’s what we’ve been up to. (0:14:30) Al: Let’s talk about some news. (0:14:32) Al: So first of all, we have just a couple of small things about spells and secrets. (0:14:36) Al: So their Xbox version is out now, and they have also said that they are not happy with the Switch version and they’ve fired their porting team and they’ve got a new porting team for the Switch version. (0:14:46) Kevin: Oh snap! (0:14:48) Al: The actual wording is we ourselves are incredibly unhappy with the Nintendo Switch (0:14:52) Al: version. This situation is incredibly frustrating for us to achieve the best possible results. (0:14:57) Al: We’ve decided to bring a new porting team on board. (0:15:01) Al: We would like to reevaluate the source code and are currently waiting for feedback on the current status of the source code. (0:15:06) Al: Well, we can’t make any current problems concrete promises at this moment. (0:15:09) Al: We remain optimistic about making positive progress. (0:15:13) Kevin: Well, I mean, hey, I salute them for wanting to improve the quality of the Switch ports aren’t always the best, so you know [laughs] (0:15:20) Al: One lonely outposts have posted a… post. They have updated us on what they’re working on and they have teased a UI overhaul. So the whole UI is getting an overhaul. (0:15:40) Kevin: That’s a big one. Probably respectable. (0:15:43) Kevin: And played it obviously. (0:15:44) Kevin: UI is a very critical… (0:15:46) Al: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I’ve not played the game. So looking at the two, I’m like, I don’t have an opinion on which I prefer because I’ve not experienced them properly. But they definitely it feels like it’s of the same style. So it doesn’t feel completely different, but it looks like they’re exactly it’s all functional stuff. Yeah. So they’re making it look I suspect it’s like UX based stuff and and things like their newest update. They’ve got the patch as far there as well. (0:16:02) Kevin: Right, it’s not like visually aesthetically. It’s more functional. (0:16:16) Al: It’s all bug fixes and small changes. (0:16:19) Al: So the link to that will be in the show notes as well. (0:16:23) Al: Orange season. (0:16:25) Al: Now, this is an incredible patch note. (0:16:28) Al: So this is version 0.11, 0.11. (0:16:32) Al: And the patch note starts off with narrative, (0:16:36) Al: added a main story. (0:16:42) Al: And I am absolutely fascinated by this. (0:16:42) Kevin: Uhh… (0:16:44) Al: Like, does this mean there was no main story? (0:16:46) Al: Or is this additional main story? (0:16:50) Al: I mean, it says, “After settling in Orange Town, your new life seems to be going fine. (0:16:55) Al: However, the previous owner of your farm returns, and he wants it back on this journey to guarantee your future. (0:17:00) Al: Your new life will mingle with a cast of strange, friendly, and conflicting personalities. (0:17:05) Al: What kind of people will you and them be at the end?” (0:17:09) Al: So this sounds to me like the game up till this point was like the daily farming aspect of things, (0:17:15) Al: but without like an overall. (0:17:16) Al: Marking story, which is an interesting way to go about it. (0:17:19) Kevin: Umm… yeah. (0:17:22) Kevin: Umm… (0:17:24) Kevin: Spoilers, Moonstone Island could use an update like this! (0:17:26) Al: Yeah, it’s interesting. Neither of us have played it, so I don’t think we have, but there you go. If you’ve been playing the game and you’re like, “This game could do with story.” (0:17:28) Kevin: That’s all I wanted to say. (0:17:32) Kevin: But it is funny to read, just added a story. (0:17:48) Al: Well, have I got good news for you? (0:17:52) Al: Speaking of having good news for you, specifically Kevin, I’ve got good news for you. (0:17:53) Kevin: Oh! (0:17:56) Kevin: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHH! (0:17:57) Kevin: I just saw the news! (0:17:58) Al: Wildflowers, the Yuri’s Salon, I think it’s Yuri, we just think it’s Yuri. (0:17:58) Kevin: AHHHHHH! (0:18:07) Kevin: Yep, I think so. Hold on, I’m listening right now. It’s in the trailer. (0:18:11) Kevin: Yeah, it’s Yuri. Okay. (0:18:12) Al: Yuri’s Salon update is out today, if you’re listening to this on the release date, so 31st of January. (0:18:20) Al: And it brings a whole new, romanceable character, and the salon that she… (0:18:30) Al: I haven’t seen anything about pronouns, but I’m assuming she… (0:18:30) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t think so (0:18:35) Kevin: Yeah (0:18:38) Kevin: So that’s (0:18:40) Kevin: RAVERS! (0:18:40) Al: This is how you do updates, right? You go, “Hey, by the way, there was a tease, right? (0:18:47) Al: So they showed a tease of the outline of the character and said someone new is moving to Fairhaven, and then posted that yes, they are romanceable. And then the next day they were like, “Oh yeah, so the release is coming next Wednesday. Cheers.” (0:19:05) Al: Yep, good, good, good, good release in full. (0:19:06) Kevin: Umm… (0:19:10) Kevin: Yep, good reveal. (0:19:12) Al: Reveal, that’s the word I’m looking for. (0:19:12) Kevin: Like, it’s… (0:19:14) Kevin: First of all, adding a new character, that’s a big deal in any farming game. (0:19:18) Al: Yeah, especially Wildflowers, because it’s very character-based. (0:19:20) Kevin: Umm… Right… (0:19:26) Kevin: Yep, very character driven, right? (0:19:28) Kevin: Like, the setting is pretty small, so they compensated that by doing a lot of interactions with the characters. (0:19:34) Kevin: Um, so that’s… (0:19:36) Kevin: That is interesting to see, also like interesting to see added at this point, right? (0:19:44) Kevin: Because like it might say if I’m already married to Ray, I’m not gonna end that for Yuri. (0:19:46) Al: Yeah, I love how you’re not even saying Wesley, you’re just saying Ray. (0:19:48) Kevin: Sorry Yuri, I’m sure you’re fine, but you know. (0:19:50) Kevin: But that said, it will be interesting to see… (0:19:56) Kevin: It’s the reason I played the game! I’ll be honest! (0:20:04) Kevin: But… (0:20:06) Kevin: But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I’m hopeful there will be other stuff sneaked in. I can’t wait to play it. (0:20:13) Kevin: I’ll fire up wildflowers again. Great, good excuse to do that again. (0:20:18) Kevin: One thing… Oh gosh, so it’s a salon, right? So you can redo… (0:20:26) Kevin: Yeah, Terry. Her name is Terry. Terry’s hair. It’s about to say Valerie. I’m mixing those two up now. (0:20:28) Al: Yeah. (0:20:32) Al: Quite a large selection of hairstyles, it looks like, and hair colors. (0:20:33) Kevin: But it’s I feel almost uncomfortable (0:20:36) Kevin: I feel so almost uncomfortable because I’m so used to that hairstyle it’s so iconic for the character whatever like you know it’s the look (0:20:44) Al: Yeah. (0:20:45) Al: Yes. (0:20:45) Al: It’s not like, it’s not like a game where you have a character customizer. (0:20:49) Al: Cause the whole point is it’s Tara’s story and you’re playing as Tara. (0:20:53) Kevin: Right. (0:20:54) Al: So like, this is the, I mean, can you change clothes? (0:20:55) Kevin: Yup. (0:20:57) Kevin: You can? Yes. (0:20:58) Al: Right. (0:20:58) Al: So there is at least some level of customization there. (0:21:00) Al: So, and it’s not like it doesn’t make sense to be able to change your hair. (0:21:01) Kevin: Yeah. (0:21:01) Kevin: Yeah. (0:21:05) Al: Like people change their hair. (0:21:06) Kevin: Yeah! (0:21:06) Al: That’s a thing that happens. (0:21:07) Kevin: Yeah! (0:21:08) Al: Uh, but I understand, I understand your concern. (0:21:08) Kevin: Yeah, you know, I… (0:21:11) Kevin: Yeah, I… (0:21:12) Kevin: Yeah, no, it makes sense. (0:21:13) Kevin: I… (0:21:14) Kevin: It’s… (0:21:15) Kevin: There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. (0:21:16) Kevin: I’m just uncomfortable with the change! (0:21:20) Kevin: I tear his blood, I don’t like it! (0:21:23) Kevin: But that said, hey, wildflowers in the news again, I’m very happy, happy day. (0:21:26) Kevin: Um, and boy, that r- that’s dropping soon, I like shadow drop like that. Good stuff, wildflowers. (0:21:32) Al: Yeah, good thing we’re doing this episode before it comes out. (0:21:37) Al: Awesome detail, we don’t have any like more details, but if we get them, we’ll put them in if there’s anything else coming in and it does, I actually didn’t check does it say, (0:21:47) Kevin: Heh heh. (0:21:48) Al: I think it’s a free update. I haven’t seen anything but it being DLC. Yeah, they’re called. (0:21:51) Kevin: I would assume so. They have not done anything paid as- (0:21:54) Al: Yeah, and they’re calling it an update. They’re saying the Wildflowers fourth update Yuri salon is coming next. I think that implies that it’s free. (0:22:02) Al: Hey, look, Re-legend. This is just a really small thing to say that they have said that they’re going to do more updates. That’s it. They’ve said that, oh, they got some money to work on the game more, so they’re going to do that. That’s it. That’s literally it. (0:22:09) Kevin: They’re going to add more buzzwords into the game. (0:22:28) Al: There was a bug fix update recently as well. (0:22:31) Kevin: I guess. (0:22:32) Al: I love some of these, I love some of these bugs in games. (0:22:36) Al: “Ensure the player’s character does not pass through the map when jumping off their magnus near the chest in the goblins resort in the desert biome.” (0:22:46) Al: That is so specific. (0:22:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:22:50) Kevin: Oh my gosh, that’s funny. (0:22:53) Kevin: Okay, what a, what a re-legend. (0:23:00) Al: The interesting thing is, I looked at the comments on Steam and they’re all positive. (0:23:08) Al: It’s like unexpected but not unwelcomed. (0:23:08) Kevin: Well, look, hold on. (0:23:10) Al: Surprising but fantastic news. (0:23:12) Al: Great news! (0:23:13) Kevin: Now hold on. (0:23:14) Al: Like there’s loads of like actual- and this is the first time I’ve seen like positive comments on anything for League of Legends for like five years! (0:23:24) Kevin: Well, I mean, you know, coming out was a good first step, right, in making positive comments, finally. (0:23:24) Al: Yes, that’s true. (0:23:32) Kevin: But, like, uh, look, alright, this is anecdotal, this is just my experience, I don’t know who anyone who’s played the game, so, you know, is it all just, uh, uh, uh, you know, fake town, and, uh, just the fake comment section by, populated by the devs, I don’t know, it’s possible, I’m just putting it out there. (0:23:40) Al: Does anyone? (0:23:54) Kevin: Did the game come out? I don’t have confirmation yet. (0:23:59) Al: And they do, there is one comment on it, which is just give them guns. (0:24:05) Al: So I think I know where that person’s, I think I know where that person’s mind is (0:24:08) Kevin: I wonder where… (0:24:10) Kevin: You know, did I tell you, or do you know why they added guns in Power World? (0:24:16) Al: That was that they’d said that they’d added it because they wanted it to be big in America basically, right? (0:24:22) Kevin: Yep, yep (0:24:23) Al: Which is like one of those things where it’s like, oh no, but also yeah (0:24:30) Kevin: They’re not wrong great like that’s the reaction like oh, but they’re not wrong (0:24:36) Al: Yeah My time at Sandrock They’ve got some plushies. So if you are really if you really love them my time at Sandrock characters (0:24:39) Kevin: Boy (0:24:46) Al: They have (0:24:46) Kevin: Wait that the characters they’re not creatures or animals (0:24:49) Al: They’re they’re the characters Logan and Fang just of course you don’t you’ve not played the game (0:24:57) Al: They’ve also got some figurines (0:25:02) Kevin: Terrawiobush, where’s that? (0:25:04) Al: Not on the my time at Sandrock page (0:25:09) Al: Speaking of plushies paleopines (0:25:12) Al: teasing some plushies Not out yet, but they teased our little foot (0:25:12) Kevin: What? What? (0:25:16) Al: of a plushie, a little foot and a back covered in spikes. (0:25:25) Kevin: I’m so excited. I wonder what dinos can’t tell based based off. Oh, I’m excited The dinosaurs are very well very likely get one (0:25:34) Al: Apparently, if you go on the on their link tree, they’ve already leaked what it is. (0:25:40) Al: It’s a carrot Anki. (0:25:42) Kevin: WHAT?! (0:25:42) Al: Anki, is it an Ankiosaurus? (0:25:44) Al: Sorry, Ankiosaurus. (0:25:45) Kevin: Oh yeah, probably ink. (0:25:46) Al: Anki-lo-saurus. (0:25:48) Kevin: Yeah, okay, yeah, oh, that’s a- (0:25:48) Al: Coming soon. (0:25:50) Al: I love that. (0:25:52) Al: It’s like they’ve got the link basically with the image, not the image of the actual plush, but the image of the what it is. (0:25:52) Kevin: Let’s make ship. (0:25:58) Al: And you click through it and it’s like, oh, campaign launches in four days and 19 hours. (0:26:10) Al: Thursday. Chia the game based on New Caledonia have released a cool new update or are going to release a cool new update in March which gives you well I guess let’s go let’s go the context of this game so this game is an explorationy type game but one of the big features of the game is you can jump into nature items so animals. (0:26:40) Al: animals and plants and stuff like that you can it’s called soul jumping and you have like a certain as you play the game you like build up your soul meter and you can use that to jump into animals and stuff like that. (0:26:53) Al: They are adding in the infinite soul meter so they say this comfort setting allows you to soul jump to your heart’s content without worrying about your meter depleting be a bird forever or a coconut or anything for that matter we’re happy. (0:27:07) Al: or if you like, it feels like a great. (0:27:10) Al: I mean, they say it’s not suggested for your first playthrough of the game, but. (0:27:16) Al: Do what you want. (0:27:17) Al: They’ve not stopped it. (0:27:18) Al: Like you can do it straight away. (0:27:19) Al: And if you just want to grab the jump in a bird and fly around this map forever, (0:27:24) Al: you can do that. (0:27:24) Al: And I think it’s pretty cool. (0:27:27) Al: Yeah, yeah. (0:27:30) Al: Spirit tea, spirit tea, spirit tea have added item stacking. (0:27:36) Kevin: That feels like that should have been addressed a while ago. (0:27:42) Kevin: Don’t have that at the feet. (0:27:44) Al: really wanted to like this. And it’s good in some ways, but yeah, like there’s a lot of quality of life things that it doesn’t have that a lot of games have that makes me struggle, struggle to enjoy it as much. This was one of them, so they have removed it now, but I don’t know if I’m going to go back to it or not. They’ve also listed a bunch of stuff that they’re going to add. If you are enjoying the game. There you go. You can go. (0:28:05) Kevin: Whatever that means. (0:28:14) Al: Oh, look at the list of things they’re adding. (0:28:16) Al: Oh (0:28:16) Kevin: Speaking of enjoying games, uh, you know, Bev and, uh, Johnny enjoyed Stardew in last week’s episode. (0:28:25) Kevin: It was a great listen, good episode. (0:28:27) Kevin: And you know, I think some guy out there named Concerned Date saw that, I was like, “Oh, (0:28:33) Kevin: well if they harvest season reach 1.5, we can’t have them staying current!” (0:28:38) Kevin: So he drops the news! (0:28:40) Kevin: 1.6 is on its way, baby! (0:28:43) Al: Yeah, I mean, so like there’s not actually much news in this because we already knew it was coming. (0:28:48) Al: We already knew there was stuff in it. But he says 1.6 ended up being a little larger in scope than originally planned. Yeah, who knows what earth is happening here? He says this is the key bit here. (0:28:55) Kevin: little larger with concern to (0:29:05) Al: I’m done adding major new content to it now and it’s in a bug fixing and polishing phase until is ready for release. Thanks for your patience. (0:29:13) Al: It’ll be fun to see everyone play. He does say in the comments that it should come out, (0:29:18) Al: he says absolutely will come out in 2024. It will come to PC first. There shouldn’t be a big delay between PC and console/mobile. I think with the 1.5 update, it was a two-month delay between Steam and Switch, which is not too bad. The mobile one was the one that I think it was like three years to get for it to come to mobile. So hopefully that will be faster. (0:29:43) Al: He does say it will be fine to play this on an old save, but I’d probably recommend a new save just to experience everything in context, otherwise you’ll unlock a bunch of stuff right away when you load up your save. And I read that and went, great, that’s much quicker to cover all the new content for the episode! [LAUGHTER] (0:30:02) Kevin: Yeah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (0:30:05) Al: So there has been a bunch of things that he listed on, where is it? A new festival. (0:30:13) Al: Which I think we’re pretty convinced now that’s the New Year festival. Two new mini festivals. (0:30:19) Al: New late game content which expands on each of the skill areas. New items and crafting recipes. There’s a totem there, so presumably another warp totem of some kind or something like that. And what looks like a quiver, as in for archery. Georgia alternatives to some of the end game quests. 100 plus new lines of dialogue. Winter outfits for the villagers. (0:30:43) Al: New type of reward for completing billboard requests. Support for eight player multiplayer on PC. And I love right at the end he puts new farm type. Just casually adding that at the end of this massive list. Oh yeah, there’s going to be a new farm as well. I wouldn’t be concerned about him. He’s fine. He’s got a lot of money. (0:31:08) Kevin: I mean… (0:31:10) Kevin: No, I know he’s fine. I’m just concerned what he’s doing to him. Geez. (0:31:15) Kevin: Um, I can’t uh… (0:31:17) Kevin: But hey, 8-player farm. We can get all- we can finally have the all the harvest season hosts on one episode. (0:31:20) Al: Oh dear, yeah, so anyway, it’s coming this year and it’s feature complete, so hopefully it’s going to end up coming, releasing like when, during the month and the summer when I’m away, isn’t it? (0:31:24) Kevin: Live commentary as he started far. (0:31:43) Al: All right, so you might think that’s all the news. (0:31:46) Al: That’s not all the news. (0:31:47) Al: four new games as well to talk about. (0:31:51) Al: Oh yes! So, first of all we have Southfield. The little blurb for this one is ‘Weird farming meets silly physics in Southfield. Combine chaotic crops with unpredictable effects, (0:32:07) Al: build your dream farmstead and experiment with playful machinery. Wobble your way around an ever-changing island solo or with up to three friends and unearth its secrets.’ Now, we quite (0:32:21) Al: too many farming games and they don’t do interesting things. (0:32:24) Kevin: That’s true. Southfield said, “What if we do the exact opposite?” (0:32:25) Al: This game here does say that. So, this is this I love. I need to play this game. (0:32:33) Kevin: Alright, I do too. Okay, I’m gonna start with the big hook, and that’s the main character. It’s a (0:32:40) Kevin: big blue (0:32:43) Kevin: gumdrop head looking blob man with big eyes, and that’s kind of it. (0:32:49) Kevin: He’s humanoid he has arms and legs (0:32:51) Kevin: and a head with eyes and a little (0:32:54) Kevin: Pikmin type leaf on top just a little one little sprout (0:32:58) Al: Pretty generic. (0:32:58) Kevin: and he’s big (0:33:00) Kevin: Yeah, but he’s big and cartoony and the way he runs around his dynamic proportions and style fitting very much with the quote-unquote Weird there’s silly physics. It’s great. He does like big bounces spins, or he does like full-on tornado (0:33:16) Kevin: He rolls around in a ball at one- (0:33:19) Al: Yep, he rides on a quad bike you got quad bikes in this game (0:33:19) Kevin: Armadillo style. (0:33:21) Kevin: He does. (0:33:23) Kevin: Yep, he’s chopping down trees. (0:33:25) Kevin: The trees are actually falling. (0:33:27) Kevin: Not just poof, here’s your logs. (0:33:29) Kevin: They’re timbering over. (0:33:31) Kevin: Um… (0:33:32) Al: There’s an electric chicken that you’re carrying, you’re chasing and you get electrocuted by. (0:33:33) Kevin: logs you there they’re timbering over (0:33:40) Al: You can throw an axe to cut down fruit. (0:33:42) Kevin: You can get frozen into ice cubes. (0:33:45) Kevin: You can throw one of your fellow blob people full on hurricane spins rocks. (0:33:51) Kevin: There’s a fruit growing to gigantic proportions. (0:33:54) Kevin: I don’t know why. (0:33:56) Al: The machinery looks fun. (0:33:58) Kevin: So this is interesting because there’s conveyor belts and things presumably for automatizing things and whatnot. (0:34:05) Kevin: But because of the weird effects, they’re just this physics that like fruits and crops are just bouncing on the conveyors. (0:34:12) Al: And it’s a bunch of the machinery that seems to be like cannons as well So it’s like leaning into I just I love everything about this. This is fantastic. I need this game (0:34:12) Kevin: so, are you… (0:34:16) Kevin: yup (0:34:20) Kevin: it’s so good right and and like even and there’s crafting there’s you can build a house and other stuff um there’s you know your plots and your farms but like every crop I don’t think i’ve (0:34:40) Kevin: It’s big, it’s cartoony, it’s colorful, it’s fun. (0:34:44) Kevin: Southfield looks amazing! (0:34:46) Kevin: Um… (0:34:47) Al: There’s also some some buildings so you can like kind of, I guess, Fortnite-esque type building, right. You’ve got your your your wall, you put up your wall and you put up your roof properly designing your house how you want. (0:35:05) Al: Yep, this one is coming soon. And as of now, I only see information about it coming to Steam on Windows. (0:35:13) Al: Yep, this one’s going on the list, I’m definitely, I’m definitely playing this one. (0:35:17) Al: Next, we have, Sugar Dew Island, now, so, before, yeah, so the name, the name is terrible, (0:35:19) Kevin: Yup. (0:35:24) Kevin: Oh boy, oh boy, just they’re coming out swinging with that name. Oh boy. (0:35:32) Al: right? (0:35:33) Al: Let’s just get out of the way. (0:35:35) Al: It’s Stardew Valley versus Coral Island, right? (0:35:38) Al: Like it’s just, like where is all they, what’s, what’s with the name? (0:35:40) Kevin: No… (0:35:41) Al: It’s bad. (0:35:43) Kevin: I- (0:35:44) Kevin: Island’s overdone, but at least it’s an actual thing, right? (0:35:48) Kevin: I’m gonna put my foot down, draw the line in the sand. (0:35:51) Kevin: I don’t think any farming game should ever have the “do” in its name. Ever. Again. (0:35:54) Al: Whatever it is, is a bad name, right? Just whatever. One of the comments on YouTube is, (0:35:57) Kevin: Just… (0:35:58) Kevin: Just don’t try. (0:36:06) Al: “One might consider there’s a copy of Stardew, shut up.” So, one interesting thing just before we actually talk about the game is, I feel like this has been shared, it’s been advertised on every single Kickstarter game update. (0:36:24) Al: I have seen in the last one exactly every single one of them they seem to be talking about this. (0:36:26) Kevin: I saw it on a link on one of the earlier news article links I put and clicked on. (0:36:33) Al: I am fascinated about by this like what is the deal behind this game? (0:36:38) Kevin: Raid Shadow Legends. (0:36:39) Al: So let’s do the usual blurb in this cozy farming game you have to run your own farm shop take care of your animals and your farm sell your goods to the cute forest folk (0:36:51) Al: upgrade the island and fulfill smart. (0:36:54) Al: No, fulfill small orders from the Harmony Tree to fill the island with life again. (0:37:00) Al: Nothing about this seems unique. (0:37:03) Al: Comparing to the previous one, this just looks like it’s a farming game. (0:37:04) Kevin: nope I yep the the one oh gosh even the four quote-unquote force folk just look like harvest sprites the one thing I will say I I have one thing I’ve wanted is to run the shop the shipping bin that’s it I don’t know if (0:37:08) Al: Hey look, it’s a harvest moon. (0:37:30) Al: Yeah, this is the thing about those is, so Ooblets had a way to do that, and there’s been a couple of other games where there’s been a little bit of it, and it always just feels to me like it’s just a really inefficient way of selling things, right? Because you have to go in and you put a few things out in the shop, and then you have to like, you either, they either implement like a haggling thing, in which case I always feel like I’m not getting as much as I could, or it just ends up being why can’t I just throw these in the shipping box, right? (0:38:00) Al: I don’t feel like any of them have ever done it well, (0:38:04) Al: and I’m not sure I trust this. (0:38:06) Kevin: I I don’t think not off not what I’m looking because like you know thinking farms like you’re growing (0:38:13) Kevin: Huge amounts of crops rolling bulk and so like I don’t know but (0:38:16) Kevin: Yeah, the shop doesn’t need that’s the add more to that because otherwise boy This much like its name takes after a lot of other games a boy am I look (0:38:28) Kevin: Studio Ghibli has amazing art stuff, but boy. I’m I tired of seeing that (0:38:34) Kevin: aesthetic in these games. (0:38:36) Al: Yeah, it’s not like it looks bad or anything, but it’s not and and the game doesn’t actually look like the trailer Right the trailer is completely like just random animated stuff (0:38:36) Kevin: Um… (0:38:38) Kevin: No! (0:38:46) Al: Well, I know it does have some of the gameplay, but like it starts off with that style (0:38:48) Kevin: Well, presumably we’re not 100% sure, but (0:38:51) Al: It’s a completely different style than the I suspect actually (0:38:54) Kevin: Yeah, true true (0:38:56) Al: It looks fine. It’s not like it looks bad (0:38:59) Kevin: Yeah, it just (0:38:59) Al: But nothing about it can especially comparing it to what we just talked about nothing about this excites (0:39:05) Kevin: Yeah, no, it’s it’s it looks fine, but not bringing anything new to the table. It’s a tough market (0:39:13) Kevin: Gotta do a bit more to (0:39:14) Al: Anyway, the Kickstarter is launching soon. (0:39:19) Al: Apparently, Steam says its planned release is Q2 this year, presumably that’s Early Access, (0:39:26) Al: but it doesn’t say on Steam that it’s going to be Early Access. (0:39:29) Al: I’m assuming they aren’t doing a Kickstarter to then release the full version in a matter of months. (0:39:37) Al: You would think not, but who knows. (0:39:41) Al: I noticed is Roca play. (0:39:43) Al: Uh, they. (0:39:44) Al: Are they a publisher or are they a developer? (0:39:48) Al: I’m not actually sure. (0:39:49) Al: They look to be both, but they did spells and secrets. (0:39:54) Al: They’ve done solar punk and they did, um, Oh, what was that one? (0:40:01) Al: There was another one that was like a, an island based one where you were like a pirate and you crashed into the island. (0:40:08) Al: And no, I don’t mean, and I realized that sounds exactly like the start of Dragon Quest Builders 2. (0:40:17) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t, um… (0:40:19) Kevin: Lose Lagoon? (0:40:21) Kevin: Castaway Paradise? (0:40:22) Al: Castaway Paradise. No, that’s not the one I was meaning, but that is another one that they’ve done. (0:40:25) Kevin: Stranded Sales. (0:40:27) Al: Stranded Sales. Yes, there we go. They did Strand- (0:40:29) Kevin: Oh my gosh, they… (0:40:31) Kevin: They actually have a game called Harvest Life. (0:40:34) Kevin: Oh my goodness. (0:40:36) Al: So, yeah, they did Beasties as well, which was the one that went on Kickstarter and then they cancelled the Kickstarter. (0:40:43) Al: And I don’t know, it’s a weird company. (0:40:46) Al: They have such an interesting mix of things that become really popular and things that are just really weird. (0:40:52) Al: Like Spells and Secrets has very positive reviews. (0:40:54) Al: It’s like 80% positive reviews on. (0:40:57) Al: And then Beasties has 50% rating. (0:41:00) Al: And she’s just like, that is such a big difference. (0:41:03) Al: They also have Super Dungeon Maker, which is like a… (0:41:06) Al: Zelda-style dungeon Mario Maker type thing, which has very positive reviews, it’s 84% positive. (0:41:17) Al: And Stranded Sales was… (0:41:19) Al: It was a game. (0:41:24) Kevin: That was a game. That feels like a few of these you could- (0:41:27) Al: Yeah, so like, you never quite know what you’re getting at Rokka Play. (0:41:31) Al: So, yeah, I guess we’ll see what happens. (0:41:36) Al: The punk hasn’t even come out yet, although it looks like they’re just publishing it, they aren’t… (0:41:40) Al: So I don’t… Yeah. (0:41:42) Al: There’s a lot of stuff. I’m not particularly excited about this one. (0:41:47) Al: But it is coming to Steam on Windows, Switch, PlayStation, and maybe Xbox. (0:41:53) Al: I don’t know whether that will be as a stretch goal, but it says Xbox question mark. (0:42:00) Al: So… (0:42:02) Al: Next, we have Sunkist City. (0:42:06) Al: life sim set in an upbeat sun-kissed seaside metropolis full of funky vibes and quirky characters. Stake out your new life in the city, tending to DIY gardens, learning new skills and making lifelong friends and help bring life back to its once vibrant streets.” (0:42:26) Kevin: I don’t know. (0:42:28) Kevin: I can’t tell if this game looks good or bad. (0:42:31) Al: So, well, let’s just put it, it is almost exactly this. (0:42:36) Al: Stardew style. Imagine Stardew, it’s that. It looks like that, but it’s based in a city, (0:42:47) Al: not a small village. Every single thing I see, it just looks, you could tell me this was a Stardew and I’d go, “Oh, they changed the UI at some point.” That’s what I would do. The keg looks almost identical and the cheese press looks very similar and like these things (0:43:06) Al: and that’s not necessarily a bad thing right like stardew did very well uh but I feel like (0:43:14) Al: what is this doing that would make me play it rather than stardew and i (0:43:19) Kevin: quirky character whatever they don’t seem particular one has blue hair they (0:43:22) Al: look characters are hard to do well and I the problem is that I i don’t think you can do i don’t think I don’t think many people could do stardew and I think many people could make stardew (0:43:36) Al: but not as well and that’s what this strikes me at it doesn’t look bad but I i’m really fascinated as to why I would want to play this rather than stardew is the story really good are the characters really good that’s what i’d probably be looking for (0:43:40) Kevin: Yeah, that’s a very good way. (0:43:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:43:54) Kevin: Mmm. (0:43:54) Kevin: Yeah, because you’re right, like, I… (0:43:57) Kevin: I see absolutely nothing… (0:44:06) Kevin: Asphalt in this setting like there’s (0:44:06) Al: Yeah, yeah. And some buildings that look run down. There’s a ramen place. Okay. (0:44:11) Kevin: Yep, it’s (0:44:13) Kevin: Yep, that’s that’s kind of it. I don’t mechanically. I don’t see anything. I see fishing There’s no some type of gardening slash farming you even carry the items over your head all a stardew [laughs] (0:44:26) Al: Yeah, like the last game someone said it looks like a copy of Stardew, now this looks like a copy of Stardew, right? I don’t, again, I don’t want to like harp on it too much because like I’m sure it would be fun to play and I don’t want to put people down and I hope that, (0:44:42) Kevin: Yeah, again, it doesn’t look bad, but just… (0:44:43) Al: I hope that they’re successful but I just, (0:44:47) Kevin: It’s not standing out, right? (0:44:48) Kevin: And again, this is very… (0:44:50) Kevin: The cottagecore farming space, getting all buzzwordy here. (0:44:54) Kevin: Like it’s, it’s flooded with starting. (0:44:56) Kevin: It’s bad. (0:44:58) Kevin: So you’re going to put one out. (0:44:59) Kevin: You really need roots of Pacha. (0:45:01) Kevin: Do it in the Stone Age. (0:45:02) Kevin: Okay. (0:45:02) Kevin: And that’s something different. (0:45:04) Kevin: And it mechanically affects it, right? (0:45:07) Kevin: You have mam and stuff like it’s appropriate, but here in the city, (0:45:12) Kevin: you’re really just not seeing anything, uh, and again, this is just based off a handful of, uh, screenshots. (0:45:18) Kevin: So, you know, I could be speaking a bit too early, but I’m just not… (0:45:23) Al: So the interesting thing is, this is this developer’s second game, their first game came out in 2016, with its last update coming out in 2018. (0:45:32) Al: So I feel like they finished off that game, they saw Stardew Valley, and they’ve been working on that since then. (0:45:38) Al: Because Stardew got really popular in 2017, so just as they were finishing off. (0:45:44) Kevin: yeah that looks that’s exactly what it looks like ‘cause this is and their first game is wildly different called wasted it’s a post-apocalyptic pub crawler it’s in 3d and it’s a very wild looking game it does absolutely one thousand percent not cottagecore at all but uh… (0:45:58) Al: That looks more interesting to me. (0:46:05) Kevin: different game [laughter] (0:46:08) Al: Yeah, I don’t. Anyway, it’s there. It’s coming to Steam on all the platforms. So we’ll see, (0:46:18) Al: I guess. And the final one is Abyss New Dawn. Names, really? Names again, right? Like, is this a… Abyss New… It’s just games in general. But this is the thing. Why is it abyss new dawn. This makes it sound like it’s a second (0:46:28) Kevin: Why did it have to be so bad in this space? Why? (0:46:38) Al: abyss game, right? But also secondly, this describes i

Al, Kevin, and Micah go through the games of the year and crown their winner for 2023. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:42: What Have We Been Up To 00:27:56: 2023 Releases 00:34:54: Previous Winners 00:36:30: Our Nominations 01:53:00: GOTY Debate 02:08:06: Decision 02:15:50: Outro Games Mentioned Games released this year Above Snakes Before the green moon Everdream valley Fae Farm Farming Simulator 23 Flutter Away Garden Buddies Garden In Harvest Moon: The Winds of Anthos Hello Kitty: Island Adventure Homestead Arcana Innchanted Lego Fortnite Loddlenaut Mineko's Night Market Moonstone Island My Time at SAndrock Paleo Pines Roots of Pacha Rune Factory 3 Special Season: A Letter to the Future Silent Hope Smushi Come Home Spells and Secrets Spirittea Sprout Valley Steamworld Build Story of Seasons: A Wonderful Life Sun Down Tchia Terra Nil Wildmender EA released in a previous year, 1.0 this year Ikonei Island Moondrop Sun Haven Coral island DDV EA released this year Cornucopia Fabledom Moonlight in Garland One Lonely Outpost Research Factory Song of the Prairie Snacko Previous Winners 2019: Doraemon SoS 2020: Summer in Mara 2021: Spiritfarer 2022: Ooblets Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of The Harvest Season. My name is Al. (0:00:39) Micah: I’m waiting, I’m waiting for you. (0:00:41) Kevin: Oh, I was waiting for you, too. I’m Micah. (0:00:44) Al: And we are here today to confuse you a lot. (0:00:46) Micah: And I’m Kev. (0:00:48) Kevin: There we go. (0:00:52) Al: It says, “We’re to talk about cottage core games.” (0:00:52) Kevin: Well, I mean, that goes without saying. (0:00:56) Al: Whoo! (0:00:57) Kevin: Whoo-hoo! (0:00:57) Al: Just, just in case people don’t know who they are, the names were the wrong way around there. (0:01:03) Al: So you know, they’re good luck. (0:01:06) Al: This is the fun episode of the year where I get two people on and we argue about which (0:01:14) Al: is the best game. (0:01:16) Al: And most of the time we come to a conclusion where we’re all accepting that that is our combined game of the year. (0:01:22) Kevin: Not this year. I refuse already. (0:01:26) Al: We will see where this year goes. (0:01:29) Al: But oh boy, oh boy, do I have some opinions. (0:01:34) Al: We’ll get to that when we get to that. (0:01:37) Al: Obviously transcripts are available for the episode and the show in general in the show notes and on the website. (0:01:44) Al: The game of the year stuff, Micah, what have you been up to? (0:01:46) Micah: I have been playing Dragon Quest Monsters 3 and I have also been playing Starfield quite a bit. (0:01:48) Al: Shock, shock harder. (0:01:52) Kevin: Good stuff. How many slimes are on your teeth? (0:01:59) Al: Interesting. What do you think? (0:02:01) Micah: I… (0:02:03) Micah: Okay. (0:02:04) Kevin: This, this is the response I hear every time I ask about it. (0:02:08) Micah: I very much understand two things. (0:02:14) Micah: I am a fan. (0:02:17) Micah: I am a fan of Bethesda game design and have been for many years. (0:02:22) Micah: So there is a level of comfort that comes with it. (0:02:27) Micah: I also understand that it is kind of dated game design. (0:02:33) Micah: And it all sort of feels the same as far as Bethesda goes. (0:02:40) Micah: But because I like that, I appreciate it. (0:02:44) Kevin: Yeah, no, that makes sense. I’m a Tetris fan, and Tetris hasn’t changed once in the 40 years it’s been out. (0:02:52) Al: That’s not true! That’s not true, Kevin. (0:02:54) Kevin: Yeah, I know that’s not true. (0:02:56) Al: We know, you know, you know that Tetris has changed. (0:02:58) Al: It has improved. It has moved with the times. (0:02:59) Kevin: Yeah, it is. (0:03:01) Micah: Tetris Effect is one of the greatest Tetris games of all time. Tetris 99. I would say, (0:03:04) Al: Exactly. Exactly. (0:03:06) Micah: I would actually argue that Tetris has done more changing than most franchises do. It’s kind of impressive. I don’t know, it’s kids. It can be cozy, right? Tetris can be a cozy (0:03:14) Kevin: You’re right, especially one we’re a fan of in particular. (0:03:19) Al: You don’t come, we don’t come for Tetris here, Kevin. (0:03:22) Kevin: I mean, we could. (0:03:28) Kevin: We could argue which one’s the best shaped piece. (0:03:31) Al: They also have their scam game that Cody’s playing. (0:03:31) Micah: Their scam game? No. (0:03:34) Kevin: Ah, well. (0:03:35) Al: Oh, have you not heard this, Micah? She’s playing a game that, like, you get points and then apparently once you hit a million or two million points you can win a free cruise, (0:03:45) Al: and I’m convinced it’s a scam. I’m waiting for the day that she gets to the right number of points and then, like, we never hear from her again because she’s, like, shipped off to have our organs harvested or something. (0:03:45) Micah: What? That does sound kinda scary. (0:03:49) Kevin: It does. (0:03:57) Micah: Dear God, all because of Tetris. (0:04:03) Kevin: Well, at least she had fun getting there. (0:04:05) Al: Anyway, so Starfield. (0:04:06) Kevin: That sounds like the game of the year to me. (0:04:10) Al: So what you’re saying is, if you like Starfield, you’ll like Starfield. (0:04:13) Al: That’s what you’re saying. (0:04:14) Micah: Yeah, if you like Bethesda games, Bethesda RPGs, (0:04:20) Micah: then you’ll probably like Starfield. (0:04:22) Micah: I think that there’s a lot of really neat things that they do with the. (0:04:27) Micah: Like space travel portions of it, there’s there’s a lot of really cool the like ship combat, space combat and stuff like that is very, very interesting. (0:04:37) Micah: It’s fun and the more that you kind of get comfortable with the how things function in the world, the you know, the more comfy of a game it is to. (0:04:49) Kevin: Okay, serious question. Have you played No Man’s Sky? (0:04:52) Micah: I have. (0:04:53) Kevin: to that (0:04:55) Micah: It is like if no man’s sky. (0:04:57) Micah: I had way more polished and was much more fleshed out and had much more like story elements to it. (0:05:09) Micah: I think that like primarily my enjoyment of Bethesda games comes from their writing. (0:05:17) Micah: And because there are just as an example, there’s a quest that I stumbled on by… (0:05:27) Micah: killing a space pirate and when I looked in his inventory there was a note and when I read the note that it unlocked this huge side quest that was like hours long. (0:05:40) Micah: Which is like I could have very easily missed that. (0:05:44) Micah: And I love that there’s such depth to like how stories play, like side stories even play out in Bethesda games like that. (0:05:57) Micah: So many times in Elder Scrolls games and things, you know, I’ll just stumble onto a cave and there’s a really deep story that’s written into this group that moved into this cave or whatever and it’s something that you could very easily miss. (0:06:16) Micah: It really makes me appreciate how much effort they put into writing things that people could never play in their, you know… (0:06:27) Micah: They’ll play through the game but there’s plenty of that in Starfield. (0:06:36) Al: Yeah, I think that’s fair. I’ve have enjoyed seeing a lot of the stuff online about all the kind of like side stuff, which has been for me, probably more fun than actually playing the game would be. So like, I totally get if you enjoy the game, then it makes it so much more fun, right? Because you’re finding all these things and just kind of stumble across this. But yeah, for me, it’s like, yeah, I enjoy watching someone post about it online or post a video or something like that. I think I know the side story you’re talking about, because that’s that’s the one that most people tend to go to. (0:06:42) Micah: Mm hmm. Yeah. (0:06:48) Kevin: Yeah. (0:07:12) Micah: Yeah, it’s a pretty important one because it, especially early on it, it gives you access to things that you would not have otherwise, that are pretty important. (0:07:22) Al: Yeah, you just confirmed it’s the one I’m thinking of. (0:07:28) Al: OK, well, I’m glad you’re enjoying it. That’s the important thing. That’s what we play games for. (0:07:30) Kevin: Yeah, well, we, we actually could do greenhouse. (0:07:32) Micah: And you know, I could talk about Dragon Quest monsters endlessly, but I’ll save everybody’s. (0:07:37) Micah: I’ll save everyone’s ears for… (0:07:40) Kevin: I didn’t all gladly listen to Dragon Quest talk for. (0:07:42) Al: Let’s discuss that later. (0:07:44) Micah: Yeah, I think that’s probably what I’m gonna be hanging on to that for is the the later (0:07:52) Al: Awesome. Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:07:55) Kevin: So it’s been a hot mince I’ve been on I think and the biggest life update for people who haven’t heard I have kittens now (0:08:05) Micah: kittens? No. When you okay, when you say kittens, obviously plural, how many are we talking here? (0:08:06) Kevin: Have I not showing you the mic oh I will text you a picture right now (0:08:11) Kevin: Yes (0:08:15) Kevin: We’re talking too so We started off with one (0:08:20) Kevin: So we’re looking for a new place to move into and at one of the places we’ve kittens they were giving (0:08:25) Kevin: away and so we took one home and then after some discussions we said you know what I bet this kitten could use a companion so we went back and got one got one of her brothers and so we now went from no kittens to two kittens pretty much out of the blue their names are teddy and daisy (0:08:52) Kevin: They are about seven, eight weeks. (0:08:55) Kevin: They are about eight weeks old. (0:08:57) Kevin: This is my first time owning cats. I’ve had a dog before, but never cats. (0:09:02) Kevin: It’s been enjoyable there. (0:09:04) Kevin: Fun, energetic, Daisy in particular is a little gremlin who loves to run around. (0:09:08) Kevin: Teddy, the brother, he’s a lot more chill. (0:09:11) Kevin: He is, yeah, I’m loving them so far. I love animals, right? (0:09:15) Kevin: And they were so little when we got them. (0:09:17) Kevin: They were only like four weeks old when we got them. (0:09:20) Kevin: So they were really little. They were like tripled in size. (0:09:23) Kevin: I took them to the vet for the first time. (0:09:25) Kevin: Yesterday, and aren’t they precious I I will have to find of us an alpix so he can post it with the show (0:09:26) Micah: Oh my god. (0:09:33) Micah: Who who’s the which one is the white and gray one? (0:09:37) Kevin: That’s Daisy (0:09:38) Micah: That’s Daisy. (0:09:39) Kevin: Mm-hmm and then (0:09:40) Micah: Daisy looks very much like my brother’s cat, zero, who is 18 years old. (0:09:43) Kevin: Oh really, huh Wow Wow, that’s strong (0:09:48) Micah: But the like identical like pattern and facial structure and. (0:09:51) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, Teddy’s really cute. He’s got a tuxedo (0:09:55) Kevin: pattern. He’s got gray fur, but like little white paws and, um, and Daisy’s black or black gray spots. Yeah, they’re adorable. Um, so yeah, they can be a handful at times as I’m sure cat owners know they can get all over the place. (0:10:10) Kevin: But, um, but I’ve been enjoying. Um, so, uh, yeah, that’s the big thing really. But, uh, (0:10:16) Kevin: other than that, probably the biggest things I’ve been playing lately. Um, I’ve really been getting through Tears of the Kingdom finally. I’ve pretty much (0:10:25) Kevin: at the finish line I’ve done all the big quests I’m just kind of going around hitting up all the shrines and filling out the map and so on and so forth but I could go take on Ganon anytime. That game is phenomenal it’s great I mean I don’t have to go in-depth about it I’m sure everyone knows how good it is right right but yeah very good game I yeah not much I probably could add and then the The other one is a… (0:10:42) Al: Speaking of games that have secrets. (0:10:55) Kevin: Street Fighter 6 (0:10:58) Kevin: So I am a fighting game fan. I am bad at them, but I love them (0:11:03) Micah: Hey, me too. (0:11:04) Kevin: I picked it up. Yeah, yeah, you got right. I’ve only played two weeks (0:11:07) Micah: On both fronts. (0:11:10) Kevin: Have you picked up Street Fighter 6? (0:11:11) Micah: I have not. (0:11:12) Kevin: Micah, okay (0:11:12) Micah: I have some friends that I have watched play. (0:11:14) Kevin: Okay (0:11:18) Micah: And I have some friends that are extremely good at Street Fighter. (0:11:23) Kevin: Yeah, yeah good. Oh man, hats off to them. (0:11:24) Micah: So I’ve seen some, you know, stuff that I’ve seen gameplay that I don’t fully understand because it’s too… (0:11:33) Micah: high level for my small brain to comprehend, but… (0:11:40) Kevin: That’s fine, I’m playing it and it happens to me. (0:11:45) Kevin: So yeah, the two big things, I mean Street Fighter, right? (0:11:47) Kevin: It’s the iconic series, (0:11:48) Kevin: so I’m sure people know what it’s all about, it’s fighting. (0:11:51) Kevin: But the two big things that it brings, (0:11:54) Kevin: the first is called modern controls. (0:11:57) Kevin: They have a new control scheme (0:12:02) Kevin: that simplifies basically playing the game. (0:12:05) Kevin: So traditionally you’d have to do a motion on your control stick and a button and all sorts of crazy combinations to get moves out. (0:12:15) Kevin: But they simplified it, (0:12:16) Kevin: where you can get moves out with just the press of a button. (0:12:20) Kevin: It’s very beginner friendly. (0:12:23) Kevin: Because of the convenience of that, (0:12:25) Kevin: they balanced it by reducing the strength of the moves and things like that. (0:12:32) Kevin: I think it’s great. (0:12:33) Kevin: I don’t play it much myself, I like the classic stuff, (0:12:36) Kevin: but it’s fun to see people use it and be able to play, (0:12:41) Kevin: get in without having to worry about not being able to do the moves. (0:12:44) Kevin: I say that as someone who is not always able to do the moves. (0:12:50) Kevin: And the second big thing that they have is called world tour mode. (0:12:53) Kevin: Have you guys heard of this at all? (0:12:56) Kevin: Yeah, oh man. (0:12:58) Kevin: So World Tour Mode is their single player campaign. (0:13:02) Kevin: The real kicker is that it’s a create a character mode. (0:13:08) Kevin: So you create your own fighter, but they’re sliders to your physical attributes. (0:13:16) Kevin: So you can be as tall, skinny, short, whatever you want. (0:13:19) Kevin: You can make monstrosity looking characters and it will affect your gameplay. (0:13:24) Kevin: If you have long arms, you will be able to punch farther or whatever. (0:13:29) Kevin: It’s pretty fun making your own character. (0:13:32) Kevin: I love it. You can hang out with the cast, which are filled with fun dumb moments. (0:13:46) Kevin: You can text all the street fighters. It’s really funny. (0:13:48) Micah: I am a big fan of a really ridiculous character. (0:13:48) Kevin: It’s so good. It’s probably the most ridiculous one. Just today I saw somebody look like a spaghetti with arms. (0:14:02) Kevin: It’s so good. There’s an online mode where you can bring your creative characters. You can have your freak matches. It’s great. (0:14:10) Kevin: Everything about that game is fantastic. The presentation, the music, the online play works great. I rarely have any bad connections for matches. (0:14:22) Kevin: I’m the character I picked up. Her name is Manon. She is a French supermodel. (0:14:32) Kevin: She is also a judo wrestler. She throws all of that in her move. She does struts, she does pirouettes, and she’ll grow you around. (0:14:40) Kevin: She’s very fun to play. That’s what I’ve been up to. (0:14:44) Kevin: Alright, Senor Al, what about you? (0:14:48) Al: Not a huge amount. It’s been a weird week, but I’ve been playing a bit of a Highland song. So for Micah, probably, who isn’t aware, it’s a platforming game based in the Scottish Highlands, and part of it is rhythm based. And it’s absolutely gorgeous. It has great music. The story is really good, and I don’t play games with the sound on, but I… (0:15:18) Al: can’t play this game with the sound off. Like, it’s just even outside of the rhythm, but it’s just so good. Yeah. Like, a Highland song. And it’s fantastic. So, okay, yeah, (0:15:30) Kevin: Okay, what are the rhythm portions like, because I know it was the Scottish game, but I don’t know what it’s like. (0:15:36) Al: okay. That’s a fair question. That’s a fair question. So, to preamble to that, the idea is that you’ve got all these mountains, and you’re climbing over them, and you’re trying (0:15:48) Al: to get to specific points. And there are places in the game where, as you are walking, (0:15:54) Al: it will tell you to press B to run. And then as you’re running across a terrain, there are things in the way, and the rhythm bit is you have to press it in time to the music to keep going and jump over the rhythm. (0:16:08) Kevin: Okay, that’s fascinating. Huh. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rhythm platformer in the (0:16:19) Micah: This is beautiful. (0:16:20) Al: Right. Right. And the best thing is, so when you’re standing on, when you’re standing on a hill in the game and you can see all of the hills around you, all of those hills are hills you can go to in the game. (0:16:32) Kevin: Oh wow, that’s nice. (0:16:34) Micah: Wow. Yeah, this is a really pretty game. I’ve never heard of this. (0:16:38) Al: Yeah, it’s really I’m loving it. It’s great. Yeah, yeah, I came out a couple weeks ago. (0:16:39) Micah: Is it new? (0:16:44) Al: But it’s fantastic. And all the Scottish accents are legitimate. So no terrible Shrek voices. (0:16:50) Kevin: But, I mean, come on, don’t you want at least one Shrek in there? (0:16:52) Al: No, no, no. Definitely not. Never, never, never. Shrek is fine in Shrek. Not outside. (0:16:56) Micah: No, that was a very immediate no. (0:17:00) Micah: No, no, no, no, no, no. (0:17:00) Kevin: Ah, fair enough. (0:17:06) Al: We have enough fake Scottish. (0:17:08) Al: Voices in the world, there are very few things where we actually get proper Scottish voices. (0:17:13) Al: So it’s nice to actually hear some. (0:17:14) Kevin: Fair enough. (0:17:15) Kevin: Is David Tennant in it? (0:17:17) Al: I don’t think so, no. (0:17:18) Kevin: the- I’m sorry. That’s a missed (0:17:21) Al: His voice, there was something, I can’t remember what it was I was watching the other day and I was like, “Oh, that’s David Tennant.” Like I always, anytime I hear him doing his normal voice, (0:17:29) Al: it’s like such a distinctive voice for me that I’m like, “Oh.” It’s like, (0:17:33) Al: Every so often, somebody learns that David Tennant is Scrooge McDuck. (0:17:38) Al: And they’re like, “What? How’s David Tennant?” I’m like, “How could you not tell? His voice is just so distinctly his voice.” (0:17:39) Kevin: Yeah, yeah. (0:17:40) Kevin: - That’s… (0:17:47) Kevin: I, I didn’t know, I mean, I, I watched, I’m a big fan of the reboot of DuckTales, but I didn’t know it was David Tennant till a little bit in. (0:17:48) Al: Maybe that’s a Scottish thing, I don’t know. (0:17:57) Kevin: Um, and I didn’t realize he was Scottish. (0:17:59) Kevin: That’s, it’s really funny. (0:18:00) Al: Yeah, he’s not putting on a voice. He’s slightly emphasizing it, but that’s basically just his voice. (0:18:04) Kevin: Yeah, sure. (0:18:06) Al: Yeah, don’t do that again, Kevin. (0:18:06) Kevin: I like how he says “Gad-age” in the first episode. (0:18:09) Kevin: I always remember that one. (0:18:13) Kevin: That’s how he says it. (0:18:17) Al: So yeah, I’ve mostly been playing that and also been playing Pokemon because of the Flubbebe outbreaks, as I said, in the show notes. (0:18:27) Micah: Oh, that’s right (0:18:30) Al: baby baby. (0:18:31) Micah: Forgot that was going on. I forget it’s uh, well baby now and then (0:18:39) Kevin: Milsory in the (0:18:42) Al: So it’s current Flababy in Poldea. It is… no, it is not. It is Litwick in Kitakami. (0:18:48) Kevin: 3 in Kitikami. (0:18:52) Micah: Mmm. Yeah, because milsry is not in the game. (0:18:53) Al: Milcery isn’t in the game yet. Milcery will be in the Blueberry Academy when it comes out. So that’s why it’s not Milcery yet. It’s because it’s in the new region in the DLC. I think it’s just called the Blueberry Academy. Yeah. (0:19:01) Kevin: I haven’t gotten the DLC yet. (0:19:05) Micah: So just the new region, do we know what the new region is called? (0:19:07) Micah: Other than just, it’s the Blueberry Academy, is it just Blueberry Academy? (0:19:10) Kevin: That’s it. (0:19:11) Kevin: Yeah, it’s like an- it’s a- yeah, it’s part of- it’s Unovan territory, I guess, I know, (0:19:16) Kevin: but it’s like an artificial island sort of thing. (0:19:20) Al: Yeah, they call it like the. (0:19:21) Kevin: Terrarium. (0:19:24) Kevin: Yeah. (0:19:26) Micah: means I almost fear honest I mean it’s the like vibe that I got from it when I yeah we’ll see it’s always we’ll see (0:19:26) Kevin: Yeah. (0:19:28) Al: Yeah, it is pretty much, hopefully less evil, but we’ll see. (0:19:29) Kevin: now. (0:19:31) Kevin: Yeah, [LAUGH] I might get the DLC finally, the trit look. (0:19:40) Al: Oh, they are calling it the ceranium. (0:19:42) Al: They are calling it. (0:19:44) Micah: I was just recently finishing up my Pokedex, my like living decks in Violet in preparation for the DLC, but (0:19:57) Micah: there’s a lot of just figuring out how to who I knew who had the other Sinnoh starters, because you only get the like one egg. (0:20:11) Micah: And it’s dependent on, I guess, dependent on what starter you picked for. (0:20:15) Micah: For scarlet or violet. (0:20:16) Al: I think it was, or maybe it was random, I can’t- (0:20:20) Micah: I feel like it was, yeah, it seemed like from trying to track down where I would find a Piplup, it was, it was through like deduction power, the power of deduction (0:20:34) Micah: through who had what starter from the, from Paldea. (0:20:38) Micah: So I don’t know if that’s actually the case or not, but that’s, that’s how I managed to figure out who had. (0:20:44) Al: Yeah, I could probably find out if I cared enough. (0:20:52) Al: I mean, I still like, I don’t, I’m still enjoying it and I’m really looking forward to the new DLC, but Kevin, you don’t need to play it. (0:21:00) Al: You can just not. (0:21:02) Micah: It’s true. It’s true. I will say that I felt. (0:21:02) Kevin: Look, I’m– (0:21:09) Micah: I think we talked about this the last time I was on, actually. (0:21:10) Al: We did. (0:21:12) Al: We had a whole greenhouse episode about it. (0:21:14) Micah: I finally finished the DLC, the first DLC, because that was the right. (0:21:18) Al: Oh, yes. (0:21:19) Al: Yes. (0:21:19) Al: Cause you hadn’t finished it when we did the greenhouse. (0:21:21) Micah: And that is like rare for me, because I I go (0:21:25) Micah: pretty hard into Pokemon stuff when it launches for the first time. (0:21:28) Micah: So to not do that is kind of a new. (0:21:32) Micah: New and weird thing for me, but I finally finished it and I did enjoy it, but I did feel that it was a very, I don’t know, I just, I’ve, I’m still feeling like I’ve kind of become disillusioned with modern Pokemon to some degree, but. (0:21:49) Kevin: I mean and okay like to not I’m you know, I (0:21:54) Kevin: Notoriously nag on the game, but to pull the veil down a little to be you the more genuine here. I (0:22:00) Kevin: Do think the trailer for the upcoming one part looks good. I’m a bit excited for what I see (0:22:07) Kevin: the only part that (0:22:08) Al: Careful. (0:22:10) Kevin: Yeah, I know the only part that really irritates me is the flying thing how it’s locked behind the DLC because (0:22:18) Al: Yeah, I agree (0:22:19) Kevin: It’s just with knowing how the development cycle works and the timing of everything. It feels very intentional. They put bad flying (0:22:28) Al: Well, here’s the thing, I don’t care if it’s like, “Oh, we couldn’t get it done in time for release,” right? (0:22:34) Al: You still don’t have to lock it behind the DLC. (0:22:34) Kevin: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Okay. But. (0:22:36) Al: They have updates. (0:22:37) Al: Every game has updates when there’s DLCs. (0:22:40) Al: So you absolutely don’t need to. (0:22:41) Al: It’s absolutely a very specific choice to lock that quality of life feature behind a purchase and that is bad and we should absolutely call that out. (0:22:49) Al: It’s not going to stop me buying the game though. (0:22:52) Micah: Yeah, I’m kind of in the same position. (0:22:56) Micah: I think there’s a lot of stuff that could just generally as far as the development cycle goes could have been changed for the better. (0:23:10) Micah: I had mentioned a little bit the like one time I’ve been on Twitter in the last like month after they talked about the they released. (0:23:22) Micah: It’s the new trailer this last week, I think. (0:23:24) Al: Yeah. (0:23:25) Micah: And they showed off the the like Pokemon control mode. (0:23:30) Micah: I forgot what they call it, but you can control the sync mode where you can control the Pokemon and run around as the Pokemon. (0:23:32) Al: Oh, yes, yeah, synchronize. Yeah. (0:23:32) Kevin: The sync mode thing. (0:23:40) Micah: And it seemingly has not much of a like use case other than you can battle Pokemon, but you just run around as a Pokemon. (0:23:50) Micah: And that to me, it. (0:23:52) Micah: Immediately, like I’d think back to when the games first came out and how much like disgruntledness there was with certain elements of the design that the games design, like how you couldn’t go into any of the houses. (0:24:09) Micah: But then they, you know, when they clipped out of bounds, then they found that there were like half designed internal locations like you could have gone into. (0:24:20) Micah: but it was very clear that they ran. (0:24:22) Micah: Out of time in the development cycle, just couldn’t, uh, so there are things like that where like I, it makes me feel like sync mode. (0:24:29) Micah: It was something that they just ran out of time on. (0:24:32) Al: So that’s possible, but I also think it could be along the lines of, like, let’s go Pikachu and Eevee to Legends, where we saw a clear direction they were moving. (0:24:43) Al: And it’s not necessarily, like, I don’t think anyone would say that the catching in Let’s Go was the way it was because they didn’t have enough time to do what they ended up doing in Legends, but it was more like a kind of moving in that kind of direction. (0:24:57) Al: And we see this with a lot of things in Pokémon where they do that, where it’s like, it’s It’s just a, it’s a. (0:25:02) Al: You’re prerequisite and the kind of like the game, it’s not like here’s a game, let’s build a game. Here’s another game. Let’s build another game, right? Like they’re constantly doing all these different things in these different games and having these different ideas. And that’s true. (0:25:04) Kevin: Yeah, baby steps. (0:25:16) Kevin: These I don’t think these are mutually exclusive either like (0:25:16) Micah: I think that I think that that I agree with that that makes sense. (0:25:22) Micah: But I do feel like there is a level of like (0:25:26) Micah: half baked development process for some of these things. (0:25:30) Micah: And I I am willing to, you know, give (0:25:30) Kevin: Oh, oh, they’re deaf at least. (0:25:34) Micah: well, for like like you said, for let’s go. (0:25:37) Micah: I think the the catch feature for let’s go was meant to more mimic Pokemon. (0:25:41) Micah: Go like it was very clearly there, like (0:25:46) Micah: the motion point between the main games and Pokemon go so that. (0:25:51) Micah: You know, catching style was intended to feel like I mean, it does feel like especially the motion control portion feels like Pokemon go. (0:25:52) Al: I mean, kind of, kind of, but I also like, with then we got only a few years later, legends, (0:26:05) Al: like it feels like it was what they kind of wanted to move towards and they were trying different things and this is what they ended up with. I don’t think it was just like, oh, (0:26:15) Al: let’s just make Pokemon go in a main series game. Like, I think it was, you know, they (0:26:22) Al: had a game which was legends where you were actually running around and literally just throwing Pokeballs at Pokemon, right? But, look, it’s not, yeah, I mean, it does show a flaw in how they developed their games and that these were almost certainly developed in parallel and therefore you can’t know what’s going to be popular and what’s going to end up working really well before you do it the next one. Yeah, I don’t disagree with you. (0:26:30) Kevin: And then they said, “Let’s go backwards at the next game.” (0:26:52) Al: I want that again. But anyway, we don’t need to keep talking about Pokemon. Let’s move on, shall we? This happens every couple of months we end up on another Scarlet and Violet delve. It did, it did. It did, but, you know, I need to save some of my Pokemon talk for a different podcast. Anyway, it’s, wow. Wow. (0:27:03) Kevin: But the trailer just came out. It was… it was gonna- (0:27:16) Kevin: We’re doing a worst games of the year pocket. (0:27:22) Al: Anyway, that’s what we’ve been up to. And I’m glad that we got a good half an hour out of that because there is no news because this is recorded out of time. Because I don’t know about you guys, but I did not want to record this on, you know, Hogman A. So we’re recording it a few weeks early. (0:27:46) Kevin: Where’s your dedication out? (0:27:49) Micah: What do you have things to do geez [laughs] (0:27:52) Al: So yes, yes, I do. So we are here to discuss our favourite games of the year and hopefully come to a conclusion on what the podcast’s game of the year is. So begins the part of the podcast where I read a bunch of words. So I am going to go down all of the games that were released this year. And at what point does this become ridiculous? I don’t know is this the most (0:28:22) Al: games we’ve had released in a year since we started the podcast? (0:28:24) Al: Yes, it absolutely is. (0:28:24) Kevin: Probably. (0:28:26) Al: Absolutely insane. (0:28:27) Al: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, nine. (0:28:29) Kevin: More than three, I’ll tell you that. (0:28:31) Kevin: I didn’t know Homestead Arcana- (0:28:32) Al: So 30, 30, 30 games, (0:28:36) Al: 31, 30, 35 games, and then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven released (0:28:42) Al: into Early Access. So was that 42, 42 games in this list? (0:28:47) Al: So this is the first list is the list of (0:28:50) Al: that were released. (0:28:52) Al: Not into early access and they previously weren’t in early access. (0:28:56) Al: This is brand new games this year. (0:28:58) Al: Brand new games not early access. (0:29:00) Al: I don’t know why I overcomplicated this, but here this is what we’re doing. (0:29:04) Al: So this is Above Snakes, Before the Green Moon, Everdream Valley, Fae Farm, Farming Simulator 23, Flutter Away, Garden Buddies, Garden Inn, Harvest Moon, The Winds of Anthos, Homestead Arcana, Enchanted, Loddle Knot, (0:29:20) Al: Maneko’s Night Market. (0:29:22) Al: And this is me just double-taking. (0:29:48) Micah: Now if you thought that was it. (0:29:52) Kevin: I’m gonna feel bad when one of the real games of the year is in here and the ones that I didn’t play. (0:29:52) Al: Well, this is part of the problem. (0:30:00) Al: So next we have five games that were released in 1.0 this year and early access a previous year. (0:30:07) Al: OK, so they were already out, but they came to their 1.0. (0:30:11) Al: They left early access this year. (0:30:13) Al: That’s a better way of describing it. (0:30:14) Al: These games left early access this year. (0:30:16) Al: And we have Icone Island, Mindrop, Sunhaven, Coral– (0:30:22) Al: Island, and Disney Dreamlight Valley. (0:30:24) Al: And then we have the list of seven games that came into early access this year. (0:30:28) Al: And that is Cornucopia, Fabledom, Moonlight in Garland, One Lonely Outpost, (0:30:35) Al: Research Story, Song of the Prairie, and Snacko. (0:30:39) Al: Hey, Micah, is this the first time you’re learning that Snacko’s in early access? (0:30:42) Al: Or did you know that already? (0:30:43) Micah: Uh, no, yesterday when I opened Notion was the first time I learned this neck wasn’t really (0:30:50) Al: Well, surprise! (0:30:52) Al: in early access now. (0:30:55) Micah: I have I’ve played the betas or the alphas, sorry. (0:31:01) Micah: And I have decided that I don’t want to do much more with the game until it (0:31:10) Micah: they get a full release because I love it. (0:31:13) Micah: love it so far and I don’t want to overdo it. (0:31:16) Kevin: Yep, don’t burn yourself out on it. I know somebody who was a big fan of Hades, but they only played in the Early Access and they burned themselves out. (0:31:23) Micah: I don’t think I could burn myself out on it really as much as it’s just that like, I don’t want to miss out like because I backed it. And I want to, I don’t know, experience the full experience I’ve experienced so much of it at this point. (0:31:38) Al: I think that’s fair. I got to the same point with Coral Island last year where I was like, (0:31:43) Al: “And now I’m going to put it down into 1.0.” But I mean, that was like 40 hours or 50 hours or something like that. It was more than I play a lot of games, you know? And I didn’t feel like playing that much ruined the experience for me when I came to the final version, because I’ve put in more than… I’m up to 100 hours now in that game. So I think it depends on the game. (0:31:55) Micah: Mm-hmm. (0:32:07) Al: Uhh. (0:32:07) Al: Ah. (0:32:08) Al: But that is a fair point. (0:32:11) Al: I have not decided what I’m going to do with Snacko. (0:32:14) Al: I’ve not decided yet. (0:32:16) Kevin: Why did nobody tell me homestead arcana came out? I would have played it, I missed that. (0:32:21) Al: Kevin! (0:32:23) Kevin: I’ve been here. (0:32:24) Micah: Have I got news for you. (0:32:29) Al: Kevin, you literally, we literally have a shared list of all of these games and when they coming out, you can look at it all the time and I’m constantly updating it just to let you know that is a thing. (0:32:31) Kevin: Well, hey. (0:32:42) Kevin: You assume I read these even when we’re recording. (0:32:43) Al: Nope, I don’t assume that at all, but I will complain about it. (0:32:49) Al: So any thoughts before we get into listing our favorite games, any thoughts on the list as a whole? (0:32:56) Al: Here we go. (0:32:56) Kevin: Umm… (0:32:57) Kevin: Ugh… (0:32:58) Micah: It’s a good list (0:32:59) Kevin: It’s a very good list. It’s too good. (0:33:01) Micah: It’s a strong list that I (0:33:06) Micah: when I opened this this document and looked at it I was a (0:33:11) Micah: Surprised that so many games had come out this year and be a little bit (0:33:17) Micah: Concerned about how few of these games I actually played (0:33:20) Kevin: Exactly! (0:33:22) Kevin: Alright, time to strike out all the ones none of us have played. (0:33:26) Al: Yeah, no, that’s fair. And I think it is interesting, right? Because like, I’ve now been tracking these games. I think I have all of the farming games that have released ever now in my list. (0:33:36) Al: And so that’s 47 this year. Last year, there were 24. In 2021, there were 15. In 2020, (0:33:46) Al: there were nine. In 2019, there were 13. And then we’ve got like, between 2016 and 2018, (0:33:54) Al: were 16. (0:33:56) Al: So that’s like a three-year span, and they were the same number as they were in 2021. (0:34:03) Al: And then 2010 to 2015, there were 12 of them, half of which were just farming simulator, (0:34:10) Kevin: Yeah. (0:34:10) Al: and the other half were just harvest moon. (0:34:13) Al: That’s not true. (0:34:16) Al: There were three harvest moons, two rune factories in one story of seasons, and an animal crossing. (0:34:21) Al: So the rest were farming simulator. (0:34:23) Al: And then the five years before that, there were 17. (0:34:26) Al: It is wild that Stardew Valley is eight years old in February, just saying. (0:34:36) Kevin: Yup, thanks Stardew Valley. (0:34:43) Kevin: You changed the whole landscape of the genre of gaming, thanks. (0:34:50) Kevin: I thought it was older, to be honest. (0:34:53) Al: No, 2016. (0:34:56) Al: Right. (0:34:56) Al: Well, I mean, shall we get right into it then? (0:34:59) Al: Let’s go for one each around, what should we do around the table? (0:35:04) Al: One each. (0:35:04) Kevin: All right. (0:35:05) Al: And we can tell, say what the game is and tell me why you’ve got it in the list. (0:35:12) Al: And we’re not doing, no, it’s a terrible game. (0:35:15) Al: So Micah, would you like to go with your first one? (0:35:18) Micah: Uhhh… Can I go with my wildcard first? (0:35:20) Al: You can, you can go in whatever order you want. (0:35:22) Al: If you want to leave your strongest for last, go for it. (0:35:25) Al: if you want to start with your strong. (0:35:26) Al: Go for it if you want to do your crazy one first, do what you want. (0:35:29) Micah: I’m going to get my wild card out of the way because I know that it’s not going to go very far so. (0:35:31) Al: Let’s go for it. (0:35:34) Al: Never assume these things, you have no idea what’s going to happen. (0:35:37) Micah: OK, that’s true. You’re right. My my. (0:35:37) Kevin: I, I, yep, I. (0:35:39) Al: Oh wait, before we get into that, let me just quickly. (0:35:45) Al: I want to go through what we have had as our games of the year in the past. (0:35:51) Al: Last year, Ooblets won. (0:35:54) Al: 2022, Ooblets won. (0:35:57) Al: But it did. (0:35:58) Al: 2021 was Spiritfarer. (0:36:01) Al: 2020 was Summer in Mara. (0:36:04) Al: And 2019 was the Raymon Story of Seasons. (0:36:07) Kevin: Wildflower was robbed. (0:36:09) Micah: What year was Wildflowers? (0:36:11) Kevin: I don’t I (0:36:11) Micah: Oh. I mean. (0:36:11) Al: Yeah, Wildflowers last year. (0:36:13) Micah: Ooblitz though. (0:36:16) Al: None of the three of us had played it. (0:36:18) Al: And Kevin, you hadn’t played it by that point either. (0:36:20) Al: So… (0:36:21) Micah: Also- Also Ooblitz is- (0:36:21) Kevin: That is correct. (0:36:26) Al: Ooblets was the only… (0:36:27) Al: Well, you hadn’t played Ooblets, but me and Bev had. (0:36:30) Micah: Yes. (0:36:31) Al: And you had a wild card last year as well. (0:36:33) Al: So what’s your wild card this year? (0:36:35) Micah: What was my wildcard last year? (0:36:37) Al: Shinshan Summer Vacation. (0:36:38) Micah: Oh, I mean, that is actually I still stand by that. (0:36:44) Al: Look, I’m not saying it’s a bat, I’m just saying. (0:36:46) Al: Like it was a little bit out of life field, (0:36:47) Al: neither of us had heard of that game before you brought it up. (0:36:50) Micah: Well, let me tell you about my wildcard for this year, which I guarantee you have heard of. (0:36:55) Micah: There is absolutely no scenario where you have not heard of this game. (0:37:00) Micah: Are you ready? (0:37:02) Kevin: Is it the princess game? (0:37:03) Micah: It is Fortnite. (0:37:07) Al: OK, why? (0:37:08) Al: OK, so you– wait, no, no, right. (0:37:10) Al: OK, so, Micah, you’re telling me that over the past three days, (0:37:12) Micah: Uh-huh. Yeah. (0:37:16) Micah: Yes. (0:37:17) Al: you have played this game enough to consider it one of your favourite games of the year? (0:37:20) Micah: I would say that there’s a reason that it’s a wild card. (0:37:27) Micah: And I would say that it is probably the reason that it’s in my list is not because I would (0:37:33) Micah: personally consider it one of my favorite games of the year. (0:37:36) Micah: But I think that it is a very important bridge (0:37:42) Micah: for the wider Fortnite audience, which is massive, into the world of farming sims. (0:37:50) Al: Well, we will have talked about it in a previous episode, so. (0:37:50) Kevin: And hey, if we let them win… (0:37:52) Micah: For anybody that is confused by this and doesn’t understand why Fortnite is part of this conversation, (0:37:59) Micah: they just released… (0:38:02) Micah: Yes, the Fortnite, the LEGO Fortnite mode has been released as of three days ago. So… (0:38:10) Al: And for some reason, it’s basically Minecraft, but with more farming. It’s wild! (0:38:10) Kevin: Minecraft for tonight. (0:38:12) Micah: Yes, and also as Legos, and it’s in Fortnite. (0:38:15) Kevin: Yeah. (0:38:18) Micah: I don’t really know if there’s aside from skins and characters, there’s not. (0:38:21) Kevin: Wait, is it actually Lego brand? Lego? What? Holy moly. (0:38:24) Al: It is, it is. (0:38:25) Micah: Yes, it’s actually Lego brand. (0:38:28) Micah: And it’s you are just building Lego, (0:38:30) Micah: like a Lego like homestead basically of a village in the wild. (0:38:36) Kevin: That’s… (0:38:37) Micah: It’s essentially a survival, it’s more of a survival game than it is like (0:38:42) Kevin: Mm-hmm. (0:38:42) Micah: a farming sim. (0:38:43) Micah: So it’s more like you gotta eat and you gotta, there is, (0:38:44) Kevin: It’s all Minecraft. (0:38:44) Al: Yeah, but there does seem to be a decent amount of farming in it. (0:38:49) Micah: there is a decent amount of farming in it. (0:38:51) Micah: And I’ll say that I have played quite a bit of it because the team that I work with has been very into it. (0:38:59) Micah: So, and prior to that coming out, we had all been playing Ark, (0:39:06) Al: » Okay. Yeah. (0:39:06) Micah: the dinosaur survival game. (0:39:09) Micah: So we had a server that we were playing that on. (0:39:11) Micah: So when a new survive. (0:39:12) Micah: Survival type game released and it’s Fortnite and it’s free and it’s Lego then we were like, okay, well, let’s play this instead so we have been playing quite a bit of it and it’s I was a little bit shocked at how good of an experience it is because it’s it it’s just odd because it’s got other than the skins and the characters there’s and I guess the the game that it that you access it from there’s nothing related to Fortnite really it’s super obvious. (0:39:19) Al: suck (0:39:44) Al: No. Well, I think your character is in the beginning based on the main, the base Fortnite playable character, right? Yeah. It’s not Fortnite. It’s not Fortnite at all. So a couple of things I found interesting about this. So first of all, it made me realize that Fortnite is not just Fortnite anymore, right? Like Fortnite was just a battle royale, but that is just one of eight different game modes, right? Absolutely wild to me. (0:39:52) Micah: Yes. Yeah. So aside from the characters, I mean, it’s it’s really there’s not a lot of no, it’s not a (0:40:06) Kevin: Oh, it hasn’t been for a while. (0:40:08) Micah: Yeah. Right. (0:40:14) Al: That’s the point now. And second of all, not only is this, it’s like, it’s not just Fortnite, but Lego. It’s Fortnite, but Lego, if they made it Minecraft, but with more farming. (0:40:30) Al: And I am just, it’s just so fascinating. So I haven’t played a huge amount of it. I’ve downloaded it and I’ve started playing it and I’ve kind of done the first couple of things. And it’s not really grabbing me. I don’t think I’m going to spend a huge amount of time on it, but I think (0:40:44) Al: so. Minecraft, when we covered Minecraft on the podcast, it was, it was a bit of a stretch, (0:40:48) Al: right? There is farming, but it’s very limited. It’s like, it was four crops or something. There might be more now. Minecraft has done a lot since then, but it felt like a bit of a stretch. (0:40:58) Micah: Yeah, there is a significant differences between, you know, yeah, there’s quite a bit to do in Fortnite now, or in Minecraft, I mean. (0:41:05) Al: Yeah, but this feels like a legit farming game, but it’s not cottagecore. It’s survival farming game. (0:41:06) Kevin: Minecraft has not stopped growing, they do annual updates. (0:41:16) Micah: Mm hmm. (0:41:19) Micah: Yeah, so I guess it kind of it also is a little bit of like how you play it. (0:41:24) Micah: So like, granted, there is a survival aspect that needs to be taken care of. (0:41:29) Micah: But depending on who you’re playing with or the the you know, (0:41:32) Micah: there is a like peaceful mode that you can do similar to what Minecraft had, (0:41:36) Al: That’s a good point. (0:41:36) Micah: where it’s not really you don’t have to play the survival mode. (0:41:40) Micah: You can play it just for the sake of like, you know, (0:41:43) Micah: the kind of like sandbox aspect of it. (0:41:46) Micah: Where you’re building stuff and doing whatever you want. (0:41:46) Kevin: farming and whatnot. (0:41:48) Micah: Yeah. (0:41:49) Micah: But, you know, like with my group, I’m not as big into the survival aspects of it. (0:41:54) Micah: Like I don’t particularly care about, you know, min maxing food and water and so on and so forth. (0:42:01) Micah: I’m more into the like building and designing and, you know, farming and that stuff. (0:42:07) Micah: So I kind of take on that role while everybody else takes on the survival portion of it. (0:42:14) Micah: So there are different ways. (0:42:16) Micah: Is to be able to play it that make it a little bit more of like a comfortable experience. (0:42:22) Micah: I mean, I literally built a cottage, so I don’t know, you know. (0:42:25) Al: Yeah, that’s, I think that’s totally fair. I guess my point of what I was saying was, (0:42:26) Kevin: Nice. Well, there you go. (0:42:31) Al: was like, I think this is much more legitimate as a farming game than Minecraft was when, (0:42:38) Al: when we covered it. So I think it’s, it’s totally fair to count this as a farming game. (0:42:39) Micah: Right. (0:42:40) Kevin: Yeah. (0:42:42) Al: So maybe I should add it into the list as Lego Fortnite. Um, but here’s a question for you. Does this make Fortnite the most downloaded farming game ever? (0:42:44) Kevin: Oh, there you go. (0:42:54) Micah: That’s why I I’ve included it because I think it is important touchstone in the history of farming games where it (0:42:54) Kevin: Absolutely. (0:43:05) Micah: There’s a possibility I can see a world in which people who play this (0:43:10) Micah: Enjoy it enjoy the like farming aspects of it want more of that and branch out into other farming type games (0:43:17) Micah: because there is such a broad audience for fortnight that (0:43:21) Micah: You know and it’s there’s such a broad (0:43:24) Micah: Audience for Lego - that there is a good (0:43:30) Micah: Possibility that it creates more farming game fans, which I’m all for (0:43:35) Al: I’ve added it into the list and also I need to add one more that I forgot, which was Hello Kitty Island Adventure. (0:43:42) Kevin: Oh, yeah, well (0:43:42) Micah: I did see that that was missing from the list and I didn’t know if that was intentional or not so it just… (0:43:46) Al: Oh, you should have brought it up. Come on. (0:43:46) Kevin: Glaring a bit omission this entire show is a sham (0:43:51) Al: Look, look, we’re now up to 49 games, right? I’m sorry, I can’t keep track of the ball. (0:43:56) Kevin: It’s quick Somebody find one more quick Um one well, you know though what we have to do is we have to let fortnite win (0:44:03) Kevin: So we can get that sponsorship money. Welcome to the harvest season of fortnite podcast (0:44:06) Micah: - It’s true. (0:44:09) Micah: Of Fortnite, but I never, I just did not ever foresee (0:44:15) Micah: there being a scenario where in the farming game of the year discussion or just in general on a harvest season episode that I would be bringing up Fortnite in a like semi-serious way. (0:44:26) Kevin: Yeah, one thing I will I haven’t played Fortnite ever, but from what I understand, every time they bring in these new distinct modes or gameplay elements, it’s always very polished and good quality. (0:44:44) Kevin: Like they brought in Spider-Man swinging and Attack on Titan, so I’m not surprised that this is high quality and that’s a lot of money being thrown at this Lego money, Fortnite money. (0:44:57) Al: Alright, well, you’re probably right, it’s probably not going to win, but it’s there, (0:45:02) Al: it’s in the list, not many games get into the list. So, there we go. No, into the list of the two, there’s only nine. It’s only nine. Alright, Kevin, what’s your first? (0:45:06) Kevin: Nope just 48 others. Oh (0:45:10) Kevin: Our list, okay (0:45:15) Kevin: My first one I’m going to go with (0:45:19) Kevin: Manekos night market a shocker to everyone the game I’ve been pining for for how many years now. Oh (0:45:27) Kevin: gosh (0:45:28) Al: Like five, like maybe six. (0:45:31) Kevin: Yeah, I don’t know something like (0:45:32) Al: I think it was six years ago it was first. (0:45:33) Kevin: well (0:45:36) Kevin: Yeah, I think it’s I’ve the fact that I waited that long and still was happy with what came out I think is a testament to how good the game is (0:45:48) Kevin: Obviously, I haven’t played all these other games and it probably not even the ones on your guys list but I (0:45:54) Kevin: Out of the ones I see here. I probably I would argue it has the most personality and charm (0:46:02) Kevin: the art, the sort of craft book art. (0:46:06) Kevin: It has gone very, very enjoyable. (0:46:10) Kevin: I haven’t beaten it myself, right? (0:46:12) Kevin: It loses some points because it came out with a handful of bugs and rough edges. (0:46:18) Kevin: But it’s still a game that makes me smile every time. (0:46:24) Kevin: So yeah, I gotta give a shout out to Maneko because I think it actually did deliver. (0:46:30) Kevin: Um, obviously, you know, it’s not the scale of tears that– (0:46:36) Kevin: Kingdom waiting six years for that or whatever, but for the get what it set out to be from all the trailers and whatnot, I think it delivered. It’s very cute, which I appreciate now. I have cats myself. Yeah. (0:46:48) Al: Yeah, totally fair, and it is still the wallpaper on my phone and has been for like seven months, (0:46:57) Kevin: Yeah, there you go. Also actually one thing I (0:47:01) Kevin: Yeah, that’s the good stuff (0:47:04) Kevin: one thing I do want to add (0:47:06) Kevin: Go on as we talked about in the episode. We talked about it. Um, the (0:47:11) Kevin: titular night market part of it is very fun (0:47:15) Kevin: Auctioning going into little bid war with customers to sell who and make profits and whatnot (0:47:20) Kevin: I don’t think a lot of these other games are focused on that like making money (0:47:26) Kevin: So that was (0:47:27) Kevin: a refreshing angle approaching the whole cottagecore thing. (0:47:32) Kevin: And again, just very fun points for that. (0:47:36) Al: Awesome. (0:47:36) Micah: Uh, I, are, are we just for the sake of the structure? (0:47:43) Micah: Are we just going through our picks and then discussing them or are we? (0:47:48) Al: If you have more to talk about that game just now, then feel free. (0:47:53) Al: We don’t need to discuss whether it’s the winner yet or not. (0:47:55) Micah: Sure, uh, oh (0:47:55) Al: And don’t say whether it’s on your list yet or not. (0:47:56) Kevin: Yeah. (0:47:58) Al: We’ll get to that. (0:47:59) Micah: Okay, I (0:48:00) Kevin: Alright. (0:48:03) Kevin: Michael, what’s next on your list? (0:48:03) Al: Right, we don’t want to look, Micah, we have a collapsed list for the suspense. (0:48:05) Micah: Didn’t didn’t say one way or another (0:48:05) Kevin: I’m kidding, I’m kidding. Ow, ow. (0:48:11) Al: We’re keeping the suspense, even if it might really be obvious now. (0:48:12) Micah: Okay, you’re right you’re right you’re right (0:48:14) Kevin: Alright. (0:48:16) Micah: It’s not though cuz I’m changing it at the moment I’m typing no, I’m just kidding [laughing] (0:48:18) Al: All right. I’ll go with my wild card. No, no, come on. I’m going with my wild card, (0:48:24) Kevin: Alright, ow. (0:48:26) Kevin

In this episode of “Coping”, Kathy and Kevin discuss the symbolism of lights during the holiday season, highlighting familial traditions around decorative lights and the spiritual meaning of light in the Bible. Light represents hope during dark times, and as people who are called to shine their light into the world, we can think about what type of light we are, and the need to plug into spiritual sources to refill our light when it dims. The conversation covers how illness, trauma, grief, exhaustion, and lack of boundaries can dim our light. Practices like reading, walking, and unplugging can refill us. Reflect this week on your current light using a 1-10 scale - how bright are you shining? Identify factors that may be dimming your light right now. Commit to one new practice this season to plug into spiritual sources and refill your light. Reach out to friends or helpers if your light feels dim and you need support. Intentionally shine your light this holiday season to bring hope to those in darkness. Kathy: Welcome back to another episode of "Coping". Today's episode. We have a special advent holiday. Kevin: That's right today We're gonna talk a little bit about the theme of lights and what that means for this holiday season. Kathy: Okay, let's get started. Kevin: So it's that time of year; we start driving around the neighborhood at night and we see lights and people's lawns on their trees outside. We can see through their window, the Christmas tree is decorated. Even in our own home our Christmas tree is up and the lights come on automatically on a timer. It's such a beautiful time of year with all these Christmas lights. What was your tradition growing up? How did you guys decorate your house inside and out? Kathy: Oh, that's a really good question. So we grew up in South Florida so it was not cold and so there wasn't like snow and that whole part of the winter celebrations. Kevin: Right you almost have to decorate a little bit more just to bring in the Christmas season because you don't have the natural changing of the weather there. Kathy: Sure, so a lot of people in South Florida do lots of lights because we don't have those extra winter effects. So Yeah, we would put out the lights and then one of our favorite family traditions was to drive around and look at all the lights. When we were young our parents to drive us in the car around and look at all of the neighborhood or other little neighborhood pockets where people put on big light displays. Kevin: Yeah, so my brother and I, when we were older, took the initiative to decorate the house ourselves and so we would pull out those dusty boxes filled with old Christmas lights. And this was back in the day where you would test one light at a time when the strand was not working and we would try to find that broken light or the one that had you know blown and we would then use a little plastic pack with like three extra ones and then refill it in. Kathy: The fuses. Kevin: So we would be hours and hours just trying to get the lights to work and then we had the bright idea of, "man we've done all this work and it looks beautiful this year. Let's leave it up the whole year and see if we can just you know not have to go through--" Kathy: Oh you were one of those families. Kevin: We tried until just a few weeks later the lawn guys came and cut into the bushes and destroyed all the lights. I think that was the last year that we ever did Christmas lights. Yeah, well this episode it's our holiday episode so we're going to talk a little bit about lights this season and what the symbolism of lights are for us as we celebrate this holiday season. Kathy: So tell us a little bit about why lights are so important spiritually and the symbolism of that. Kevin: Yeah, that's such a good question. So I think from Judeo-Christian perspective, light is such an important theme in the Old Testament and the New Testament. Some of the very first of verses in Genesis talk about God's command, "let there be light." And then we see this certainly extended into the New Testament where light starts to become a symbol of people who are set apart in the world, but also an example of our call to shine our light. I'm thinking about John 1 1:7, where it says, "but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another." And I think it's just such an important reminder that when there's so much darkness in the world, so much darkness around us and our personal lives, that we be a light, a light for other people when they're in their darkness. And when we shine a light, it's a symbol of hope, especially in challenging times in the world. Kathy: Yeah, it seems like every Christmas, things are getting darker and darker, not just outside, but in the forces that are working against the light. And we come to Advent and to this Christmas wondering, "is the light actually going to overcome the darkness? And what are ways we can be spreading more light since it's just so needed?" Kevin: Right. One of the teachings that we've done a few times with our community is to describe the kind of light that we are when we think about all the different kinds of light sources in the world. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about how you would describe yourself as a light? What kind of light do you see yourself as in the world? Kathy: Yeah, this is such an introspective, but very powerful and fun activity to think about all the different light sources around us from the lamps to the light bulbs to the matches to the campfires, to the lightning bugs. Yeah, there's just so many, and we take it for granted, I think that's something else you could say. Our power was out recently for 12 hours, and it was very, it was a wake up call to how much we rely on the light. Kevin: So much so we bought a backup battery just to make sure that we had a source to keep our light shining when we need it. Kathy: Yeah, absolutely. So when I think about the light source that relates to me, I think about lighthouses. I love the lighthouses, we visited some of them, but the idea that your light can emit far away to guide ships in, I think is one of the calls for me, and being a stable source of light people can come back to resonates with me. How about you? Kevin: Yeah, I see you definitely emit that kind of light in your work as a life and vocation coach, certainly within our family, just a very stable presence of light. That's definitely how I envision you and your light. I think for me, probably opposite to you, my light changes over time and in different seasons and depending on what's going on. And so there's times where I feel like I'm a bonfire, where my light is ablaze. Other times it feels really, really dim, almost like a nightlight. And so I think the best example of my source of light is more like a dimmer switch. There's times where I find myself shining really bright and that kind of bright light is needed if I'm teaching or speaking or leading some type of group and shining up bright light is important. And then having the ability to dim way down if I'm entering into a patient room in the hospital, sitting with somebody who's just gotten a new diagnosis and being present to them in their pain and their story. Kevin: And so I've developed over time this ability to toggle my light switch up and down, depending on the scenario, depending on the encounter that I'm having with somebody. So I think the best representative of my kind of light is perhaps like a dimmer switch. Kathy: That's really good. And you have to obviously be aware then about how your light source is emitting and when you need to turn it down. I grew up without dimmer switches. I didn't even know what that was, but it's such a powerful regulatory mechanism that we have now and for you to use that as a light. For you, I think that's really interesting, but it's very appropriate for the work you do. So you mentioned that sometimes your light is dim. I think that brings up a very good topic about what makes our lights dim. You're talking about the self-regulation of dimming, but a lot of times our lights are hidden, turned down, covered completely. What do you find often dims the light in others? Kevin: Yeah, that's such a great question. I think, as you're saying, the most important thing to do is to first be aware that your light is dim. Kathy: Awareness. Kevin: Yeah, awareness, yeah, exactly. I know in the work that I do, some of the obstacles or some of the ways that our lights are impacted is illness, trauma, pain, lack of support, those types of things can certainly impact somebody's level of light. I think for me personally the ways that my light dims the most is when I feel like I'm perhaps expending more energy or expending sending out more light into the world that I'm you know filling myself up with so I'm burning out quite literally emotionally, spiritually burning out and my light source is getting dim because it's you know the energy levels are pretty low. What about for you? What are some of the things that you feel like are dimming your light that that lighthouse that you are? Kathy: I think it's exactly the same right as helpers, we don't we're getting tired of turning our lights. We have been turning on our lights probably on maximum, full force since COVID because there's been so many needs for helpers, loss of jobs and illness and the level of crisis we've talked about through our season is very great in the world, so helpers are very tired. For me, it's exhaustion, a lack of rest and just feeling like I can't turn my light on anymore. I'm just too tired to. I can keep plugging back into sources, but it's just like not enough to light. The amount of power it takes, I think, for helpers and leaders, it's a lot. Kevin: Yeah, I'm even thinking about my source of light a dimmer switch often a dimmer switch is coupled with an outlet and so not only am I emitting light but I'm also an outlet for others to plug into and that can be exhausting I have to have double, triple, quadruple the amount of energy being poured in to me so that I can not only shine my light, but be a source of light for others. You think about a lighthouse -- I'm sure there's several outlets and other sources of energy for folks to plug into let alone helping them, guiding them to shore after a journey at sea, if you will. Kathy: Yeah, and I would say also that for those in our community, you mentioned illness, trauma, grief as dimming. I would also say related to that, you know, the lack of boundaries, what we're talking about, and the inability to pause, to rest, to reflect. And then not taking enough time to plug into the sources that fill us up in proportion to how much, like you said, the energy is going out. Kevin: Right. Tell me a little bit more about how you plug into sources of energy to keep your light bright. What does that look like for you and what advice do you have for other people that are assessing that their light is pretty dim at this time of year? Kathy: So one of the practices that we talk about and then I practice personally, I know you do too, is that we engage in what we call ING activities that are filling up and making us literally light up. For me, it's reading. I'm so proud to say I finished two books this week that I had started months ago, cooking, walking every day, napping. For some people, it's serving. For some people, it's cleaning. That's something that gets them filled up. There's endless possibilities. Kevin: Yeah, this teaching that we talk about a lot is making sure that your practices include that ING. What's the participle, what kind of word is that as an ING? I always forget. Kathy: That's a gerund. Kevin: A gerund. That's right. Kathy: Of course. Kevin: The English teacher in you is coming out, yeah. So basically ensuring that the practice that we have is something that we do and gives us not just something to strive for, but something to actually do practically. And so I have these ongoing practices, journaling, praying, fellowshiping, playing. I like to play video games as a complete breakaway, watching movies, that type of thing. But I think certainly this time of year, what I need more than just my ongoing practices of self-care and rest are practices, like my annual practices that disrupt the routines that I have, and so making sure that I'm taking time to reflect on the whole year. You and I have talked before on this podcast about our year in review workshop, but also when we talk about our favorite things from this past year, we have a journal that we do with that. Kevin: I also try to take some time away from work to completely unplug and to free up some mental space. So ongoing practices are super important, all those gerund words, the ING words. And then try to think at this time of year, ways to disrupt my normal patterns and routines so that I can do a real good assessment about where I'm at, how I'm doing, what I'm needing as I look back to start to envision what might be upcoming in this next year. Kathy: Yeah, so I think this is all very helpful, especially at this time of the year as we talk about lights and how we can dispel the darkness. The number one theme I think that we've emphasized today is to be sure that you're plugging into a greater source of light. Kevin: That's right. We have all these practices that we can do, activities that we can do, but the reality is that we may be a source of light, but we're not the main source. We have to plug into a source of energy bigger than ourselves so that that energy source can be filling us up as we're shining our light and being an outlet for other people's light to have energy as well. Kathy: And so to recap, step one, take a moment to think about the awareness of your light. How is it shining right now on a scale of one to ten? How bright is it? Step two, what is dimming your light? What is causing you to be not shining as brightly as the world needs you to be shining right now? And step three, plug into the source of a greater light source than yourself. We cannot get light from ourselves. Kevin: What are those sources of light that we can plug into when you think about a bigger source of light? What does that look like? Kathy: I think the bigger sources of life for most people are spiritual practices. For some others, it's faith, their deep faith, and all of the practices related to hearing from God and getting truth and light into their hearts and minds instead of believing lies and darkness. For others, it may be community and hearing how they're valued and seen from a group of people. So I would just challenge you out there. If you don't have any of those, please reach out to us at Be Well Resources. We want you to be shining your light brightly. the season and throughout the year. Kevin: And so with that, what I would like to do to close our time together today is to play one of the earliest episodes from season one of "Coping". It's a reflection on light and the type of light that we can shine amidst the darkness this holiday season. And so with that, whatever it is that you may be coping with, we want to extend this holiday season blessings to you. Holiday Lights Reflection Kevin: During the holidays, Christmas lights decorate our homes inside and out. We wrap our Christmas trees with lights and hang lights from the roof. These lights switch on at night so that they shine brightly and beautifully in the darkness. The prophet Isaiah spoke about light saying, People walking in darkness have seen a great light. On those living in the land of deep darkness. A light has dawned. Our small strung together Christmas lights not only display the beauty of Christmas, but also, as Isaiah teaches us, help dispel the darkness. As we celebrate with lights this season, let us intentionally shine our lights to illuminate the world around us. How has God's light dawned in your life? Where is he calling you to shine your light today? Let's pray. God, you are the light of the world. We hear your call to be light in the world. Help us to shine brightly this season, and give us the power to bring light where it is needed most. We pray these things in your name. Amen.

The first episode of the 4th season of "Coping" discusses practices for celebrating Thanksgiving and carrying gratitude through the entire year. Kathy and Kevin love Thanksgiving for the food, family gatherings, and chance to reflect on blessings because reflection can bring about new direction and understanding. Practices like daily celebration and reflection can build gratitude. Learn how you can turn your Thanksgiving into Thanks-living and join us on December 7th, 2023 for our "Review Your Year" workshop. Kevin: Well, hi everyone. Welcome back to a new season of coping. Kathy: Yes, today we're pausing our series on rest to have a special Thanksgiving podcast. Kevin: Yes, we hope that you all are enjoying your Thanksgiving week. If that's when you're listening to this episode. We wish you all a very happy Thanksgiving. Kathy: What's your favorite part of Thanksgiving? Kevin: Good question. Okay, so this is going to surprise you a little bit. My favorite part about Thanksgiving is how much food is made and that it gets spread out over many more meals after the holiday itself. Which -- you know me really well --it's strange because I don't actually like leftovers other times of the year. It's really only Thanksgiving that I enjoy having the same food multiple days after the big feast. Kathy: And I'm the opposite. I love leftovers and I love spreading out all my meals. So I'm excited to talk about Thanksgiving, leftovers, pumpkin pie, I'm getting hungry already. Kevin: Yes. Kathy: Let's get started. Kevin: So this week we celebrate Thanksgiving and I know it's one of your favorite holidays. Why do you love Thanksgiving so much? Tell me about it. Kathy: Yes, I think I love Thanksgiving. Of course, it's always about the food on the foodie. But I think the deeper celebrations of gathering around tables, it is a holiday celebrated by most everyone. I like the inclusive nature of the holiday. And I love the focus on gratitude, celebration, Thanksgiving, and the gifts of this year. Kevin: I know also that your birthday, especially this year, falls really close to Thanksgiving. And so in our household, it's a really fun time of year where we get to do a lot of celebrations for you and then lead us right into Thanksgiving holiday meal and time with family. Kathy: And so let's revisit this concept of the leftovers that we discussed earlier. Talk to me a bit about that. What is this Thanksgiving leftover theory that you have? Kevin: You know, when I think about Thanksgiving and gathering with friends and family, and food being the centerpiece of that, the thing that gathers us together. And I love that idea that we have one big elaborate feast with friends and family for fellowship, but what we take with us is not just the food and a carryout, to-go bag, but we take with us those memories that shared time together, and then it rolls itself into the rest of the weekend, into the rest of the end of the year. And it's just a, I think, a great opportunity for us to remember that giving thanks doesn't have to be just one time a year, that we should have a practice of giving thanks. Kathy: Yeah, I really love this. One of my favorite authors Ann Voskamp says that, "our goal is to turn our thanksgiving into thanks-living." And we have done one of our previous podcasts on this, and we had a guest, Anleisha, who told us her story about that. But I think today's podcast, we wanna give some practices that will help turn this Thanksgiving into Thanks-living. Kathy: The first is celebration. How do you use celebration as a spiritual practice? Kevin: Yeah, oh, absolutely. Celebration is a big one. So let's start with the definition. Oxford Dictionary tells us that celebration is the action of marking one's pleasure at important events or occasions by engaging in enjoyable and typically social activities. And so we all do this in really natural ways, right? We have our birthdays and anniversaries and, you know, the holidays, it's on our minds, it's on our calendars. We gather and we celebrate these things. I think perhaps this year, more than most, the practice of celebrating in the midst of so much chaos in the world, so much upheaval in our personal lives, celebration may not feel like a natural thing. It may not be our natural inclination this year. And so what I want to call to mind is another type of celebration, another type of Thanksgiving in the midst of so much chaos. And I'm reminded of a quote from a dear friend of mine, Father Mark, who always likes to say, "it's always important to balance the bitter with the sweet." And what he means by that is to remember the sweetness of life when life feels especially bitter. And the best way to do that is with a piece of cake, a piece of pie, a little bit of ice cream or some candy, something just to savor and to enjoy in the midst of very unenjoyable times in our lives. And so I think maybe this Thanksgiving is where we take time to balance all the bitter in the world with a little bit of sweetness. And that's the food that's on the table, the friends that sit around the table with us and the fellowship that we get to share. Kathy: Yeah, that's such a wonderful practice, an idea. Speaking from my recent celebration experience of this past week, which was my birthday, it was a great pause in the midst of a very chaotic and difficult month, I would say, to focus on joy and gratitude. And it was uplifting. It didn't seem natural. It didn't seem like, "oh, let's stop and celebrate." But we did anyway. And we were all better as a result. I love Adele Calhoun in her book, Spiritual Disciplines Handbook. She speaks of celebration as one of those disciplines. And she says, “when we're able to set our hearts on this joy, it reminds us that we can choose how we respond to any particular moment.” When we can set our hearts on joy, that will remind us that we can choose how we can respond to any particular moment. Kevin: That's right. If we can choose to celebrate in the midst of chaos, that also teaches us how to respond in times of crisis. So we have this practice of celebration, and we know the importance of celebrating daily and weekly and monthly as we just talked about. What is another practice that we can do to extend thanksgiving to every day of the year? Kathy: Sure. The next one we want to discuss is the practice of reflection. So we just talked about celebration. And that is a pause. Reflection is also a pause, but it's the intentional practice of pausing to remember. We are doing the looking back in order to figure out how to move forward. And this could take the form of written, where we're doing like journaling, that sort of thing, or it can be oral where people are, even like if you think about reflection happens in memorial services, where we're doing a reflection back -- Kevin: Telling stories. Kathy: Telling stories. Correct. You and I do a year-end review with our family, where we actually look back. Kevin: Yeah. So we've developed this booklet, it's called Year in Review, that we do every year and as the kids have gotten older we've included them in this and it's kind of a fun ritual that we do in our family. But basically there's these questions that we look back on the year and talk about and write the answers down and some of the questions that come to mind are like your biggest accomplishment this last year, best new purchase -- Kathy: Favorite movie, best vacation -- Kevin: Best new hotel, best new restaurant, things like that. Kathy: Hardest challenge. Kevin: Yeah, there's a lot of really good questions to reflect on and to remember and I'm always surprised at the end of the year, the amount of things that we did. The year goes by so fast and I think I have developed a practice of forgetting in order to cope with all of the challenges in life. But when we choose to reflect and then remember the good things in the midst of all the hard things that have happened, it's always such a meaningful practice. And I always feel like the year feels a little bit more meaningful because we take that time together as a family. Kathy: Yeah, I love what you said about the forgetting part, right? So much is happening. We need the pause. And that reminds me of Emily Freeman's quote, where she says, "the problem isn't that we aren't learning. The problem is that we forget." So I think what happens is we're just going 24-7. And we're consuming a lot and we're never pausing to digest it and then also figure out what we have learned. Kevin: Right. Kathy: So if we don't take these pauses for reflection, we're not making the most of the opportunities that come our way when we can't reflect back on that. They just are just sort of like passing us by. So let's just say that we go through the whole we go through a year, years, not journaling or making note of or highlighting things. Then we turn around and years have passed and we're like, what did we even do? And what are we doing it for? Kevin: I know for me, especially in my line of work, I go from one crisis to the next. And the next thing you know, you look up and it's like the end of the year or like the middle of the year. And I'm like, wait, how did that happen? And what I hear you saying is that reflection helps get the control back of the time that feels like it slips away so quickly. But more than that, it's an opportunity to learn and to grow from all of our experiences so that we're living life, not just trying to cope and survive and deal with all the problems that come our way. We can actually take some of the control back, some of the slow the time down. just a little bit through taking that time to reflect. Kathy: It lifts us out of reflection, will lift us out of survival into significance. Kevin: Yeah, that's really good. So how do we do that though? Like life is chaotic, there are hard things. What does that look like to take time to reflect? Kathy: Yeah, so we can do a daily reflection practice, the practice of the examin, some of you may be familiar with, and that is a daily practice of looking back on your day. You're asking the questions, basically what happened in my day today? And where was I present? Where was I not? Oh, what happened at that moment? It's such a good reflection practice to do that daily. And then you can also go on to do this, of course, weekly and monthly. And it is just about stopping, pausing, recognizing the gifts of these days. Kevin: Yeah, so in chaplaincy we have this philosophy "Action Reflection Action", meaning with everything that you do, especially when you're first learning like clinical pastoral education, that everything that you do, you take time to reflect, to learn from and to improve the practice. But it's certainly a philosophy that extends beyond a residency into a full-time chaplain role, that you're taking time to reflect, to make meaning, and to improve your practices going forward. And I think for me, reflection is simply looking in the mirror. And instead of just seeing yourself in that reflection, you get to see your soul. And so reflection can be something that we do looking backwards, because a mirror only reflects backwards, it doesn't reflect forwards. But when we look backwards, that's the way that we're able to make sense of where we've come from, so we have a better idea of where we want to go. Kathy: Excellent. So, to sum it all up, we have some celebration and reflection practices that we're all going to begin to utilize. We hope that this has given you some small steps toward having thanks -living this year, instead of just Thanksgiving. And speaking of reflection, we have our annual Review Your Year workshop coming up on December 7th. Everyone is invited to this. It is a time of celebration and reflection, where we get to look back on this year, all that it brought to us. We talk about our word that we had, and we're also setting an intention. So if you are interested in that, please sign up on our website at BeWellResourcesLA.com, and we'd love to have you. To close our time today, Kevin:, would you lead us in a Thanksgiving meditation? Kevin: Yeah, I'd be happy to do that. Meditation: We're going to start with me asking just a few questions that I'd like you to reflect on. If you want to write your answers down, that'd be great, but if not, you can just call them to mind as well. So the first question is, what are two attributes of God you appreciate most today? The next question is, what's one thing you're celebrating today? The next question, what's one thing you're reflecting on today? And finally, name three things you're most grateful for today. So this meditation is a fill in the blank blessing. As I read this blessing, reflect on these things that you're grateful for. And when I pause, fill in your own words to complete the blessing. Let's pray. God, thank you for being _________. Today, I will choose to celebrate __________. Because I see this as a gift from you. Today, I will take time to reflect on __________. Because I'd like to remember __________. I thank you for all the blessings in my life, but today, I'm most grateful for these three. The first is _________. The second is _________. And finally _________. And so I conclude by simply saying, "thank you."

Kev and Kelly do a second harvest of Graveyard Keeper Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:17: What Have We Been Up To 00:06:11: News 00:34:56: Graveyard Keeper 01:14:29: Outro Links Coral Island 1.0 Moonlight in Garland Early Access Sun Haven 1.3 Update Fabledom Fairytales & Community Update Moonstone Island Eerie Items DLC Lonesome Village Physical Edition Garden Story Translation Update Fantastic Haven Graveyard Keeper Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:32) Kevin: this is kelly ween this is kelly ween kelly ween kelly ween and in this show uh we talk about games that are filled with cottage gore yeah hi everyone welcome to the harvest season um with me today is kelly i’m kevin she’s actually gonna be here for well spoilers but then she’s gonna be on next week too she were on last week I bring it up because last year you were on for Halloween we did Cult of the Land. (0:00:47) Kelly: Hey. (0:00:57) Kelly: Oh, I forgot about that. (0:01:02) Kevin: And so, yeah, so, well, that’s exactly right. (0:01:03) Kelly: Is this just like my thing? (0:01:07) Kevin: Um, yeah, you’re Kelly our pumpkin queen. (0:01:10) Kevin: So here we are. (0:01:11) Kevin: Um, she’s all about this stuff. (0:01:14) Kevin: And so we are here today to talk about graveyard keeper, another, um, cottage gore game, um, technically this is a second harvest episode. (0:01:25) Kevin: Uh, Raschelle covered it way back. (0:01:28) Kevin: Like the first Halloween episode. (0:01:32) Kevin: And so I knew about it for years, but I didn’t get a chance to play it until recently. (0:01:37) Kevin: Um, and Kelly has played it significantly. (0:01:40) Kevin: Um, yeah. (0:01:40) Kelly: I only got out of it though last year. I was very new to it, so… (0:01:44) Kevin: Well, still more than I have. (0:01:49) Kevin: I’ve only played, uh, just a handful, relatively speaking. (0:01:51) Kevin: Um, but yeah, that’s, uh, we will get to that soon enough. (0:01:58) Kevin: Um, but before that, as always. (0:02:02) Kevin: Show notes and links and the transcripts are all available on the website for people to see and look at and on. (0:02:09) Kevin: Ooh, and whatnot. (0:02:11) Kevin: Um, and, uh, before the graveyard keeper will do news as always. (0:02:17) Kevin: And more importantly, what have you been up to Kelly? (0:02:19) Kevin: What have you been playing, watching, doing, yada, yada. (0:02:21) Kelly: Um, playing? I’ve really been slacking. I’ve been playing solitaire in Pokemon Go, which is not… It is, but I just… I get stuck playing it, and like, it’s fun, but I’m also like, I could be playing something better. (0:02:37) Kevin: Yeah, I mean it’s like comfort food sometimes it just it’s simple and I get it Exactly sometimes you just need a mindless game Okay, okay madman okay, I have not watched it. I’m familiar with it. That’s the one with That’s the one like 50s (0:02:37) Kelly: Um… [laughs] (0:02:39) Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s like, thoughtless. Um… (0:02:50) Kelly: But I just… (0:02:51) Kelly: I rewatched Mad Men, so that I think is more exciting. (0:03:05) Kelly: yeah like 60s advertising, yeah. (0:03:05) Kevin: add agency right (0:03:07) Kevin: 60s okay all right how how mm-hmm how long is it like the whole thing oh wow that’s longer than expected well that’s cool yeah sure (0:03:07) Kelly: uh I was a big fan when it came out. (0:03:12) Kelly: uh it’s like seven seasons I think? yeah seven seasons. (0:03:18) Kelly: yeah when I first ran I jumped ship like I think after season five. (0:03:25) Kelly: uh I mean it’s not the worst last two seasons but they’re not as good. (0:03:32) Kelly: Good. (0:03:34) Kevin: Um, let’s see, uh, well, I’ve last week we covered paleo pines actually kept up with it a good bit after There was a patch that dropped It’s been a big dinosaur for a week for me. I watched Jurassic Park this week again - (0:03:35) Kelly: What about you? What have you been up to? (0:03:52) Kevin: Boy, that movie’s real good good other than that Yesterday I cried that Super Mario wonder it just came out yesterday (0:04:04) Kevin: the newest one for this switch and It’s a good one Um, I’ll plug the rainbow road radio the other show I do with our mutual friend Alex We did our first look at it on that show. We just recorded and that’ll be dropping soon It’s fantastic it’s There’s I’m only a little bit in like on the second world but like every (0:04:23) Kelly: What do you think of it? (0:04:34) Kevin: level feels like it is introducing something new and different and I mean classic Mario is good you know 2d it’s your standard 2d Mario and whatnot so the gameplay is good and it’s just filled with all sorts of fun surprises and delights I’m going to spoil people on probably the best part that I’ve experienced so far there’s this level it’s like the second or third level you can do. (0:05:04) Kevin: There’s a bunch of piranha plants popping out of the pipes and you run and jump past them and whatnot. (0:05:09) Kevin: And then there’s the Wonder Flower which changes the level in different ways or whatnot. (0:05:15) Kevin: So when you touch the Wonder Flower, it starts this musical production and all the piranha plants just start singing. (0:05:23) Kevin: And it’s incredible, you entice everyone to at least look it up. (0:05:29) Kelly: I actually, I saw it on TikTok this morning and I was like, hmm, okay. (0:05:30) Kevin: It’s just so much fun. (0:05:34) Kevin: It’s so, because it just, right? (0:05:37) Kelly: Very much unexpected. (0:05:38) Kelly: I thought it was like somebody made it at first, like, you know, somebody edited it. (0:05:41) Kevin: Yep, it’s so out of the blue. (0:05:42) Kelly: But no, it was real. (0:05:45) Kevin: Yeah, no, it’s good. (0:05:48) Kevin: It’s really funny and yeah, the game just brings smiles to me every level with all sorts of unexpected twists and turns like that. (0:05:56) Kevin: So yeah, Mario Wonder, two thumbs up for me for sure. (0:05:59) Kevin: Like I said, people can go to Rainbow World Radio to hear more in-depth thoughts. (0:06:04) Kevin: But, yeah, that’s mostly what I’ve been up to. (0:06:08) Kevin: And now, with that, let’s hop on over to the news. (0:06:15) Kevin: We have, as always, a handful of, mostly game updates. (0:06:19) Kevin: Yeah, there’s a lot of game updates for some reason right now. (0:06:24) Kevin: So we’re going to start off talking about Coral Island. (0:06:30) Kevin: Okay, the one, okay, this is a big one. (0:06:34) Kevin: For people who may not remember, Coral Island is your standard Stardew-esque, well, I say standard. (0:06:40) Kevin: It’s got all your fixings, your farming, and it’s on an island, hence the name, right? (0:06:46) Kevin: So it has the tropical aesthetic and whatnot. (0:06:51) Kevin: But the big news is the 1.0 version is launching on November 14th, which is exciting. (0:06:58) Kevin: They have a trailer, and it looks expansive. (0:07:05) Kevin: There’s a lot going on. You have your farm, you can go underwater, you can meet mermaids, you can do your romancing, (0:07:12) Kevin: you can do, I think there’s even a race in there somewhere. All that good stuff. (0:07:18) Kevin: It looks very polished and like a 1.0 game. You can also… (0:07:22) Kelly: Yeah, I was going to say, it definitely looks like there’s, it looks a lot different than like the first, you know, clips I saw of it. (0:07:30) Kevin: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, it’s definitely a game now, for a better way of putting it. (0:07:36) Kelly: Yeah. (0:07:37) Kevin: And you can also dress up as a panda or dinosaur, so you know, there’s a lot going on there. You also get your little animal crossing, you can redecorate your house wherever you want. (0:07:49) Kevin: Oh, you can even have a baby in this, that’s wild. Yeah, that is dropping on November 14th, (0:07:58) Kevin: just a couple of weeks and it will be dropping on Steam, Xbox Series X/S, and PS5 they’re hoping for a 2024 release for a Switch version. Do you think you’ll try Coral Island or look in its general (0:08:12) Kelly: I think I might. I think it definitely looks really cute. I think it depends on if I’m playing anything, you know, when it comes out. I’m trying so hard not to, like, backlog myself. (0:08:22) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that’s the hard part right too many games Yeah, no, that’s that’s a good idea I definitely have bought back So I respect that I think you can romance a mermaid so, you know, I’m not that going free I wonder how that’s gonna work. How are they gonna move up the land or vice versa? (0:08:43) Kevin: It’s a two-story floor but the bottom floor is underwater [laugh] (0:08:44) Kelly: just uh living in a two separate homes kind of situation there you go (0:08:52) Kevin: I’m down for that, um, yeah, right now it’s only 25 bucks, oh that’s not bad for this, that’s, that looks like a lot of content for 25 bucks, so, um, get excited. (0:09:06) Kevin: Um, oh, oh yeah, okay, sure, yep, that makes sense, that’s fair. (0:09:07) Kelly: Oh, it does say it’s going to release, I think, at $30, though. (0:09:11) Kelly: There’s a note about the price adjustment. (0:09:14) Kelly: But the diving looks really cool. (0:09:16) Kelly: I played a lot of Dave the Diver over the summer, (0:09:19) Kelly: so I feel like I’m still looking for games where I can go exploring like that. (0:09:19) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good. (0:09:23) Kevin: Yeah, it does look good for like the animation stuff. (0:09:29) Kevin: I’m also a big fan of underwater type games and it looks very expansive down there. (0:09:35) Kevin: So yeah, there’s a post on Steam page with all the updates and everything. You guys can check it out. (0:09:44) Kevin: If you do have early access, it looks like there will be a save reset. (0:09:53) Kevin: So there is that. But, either way, November 14th, I look forward to it. I might actually check it out now. It looks pretty… (0:10:00) Kevin: So, next up we have Moonlight and Garland. (0:10:06) Kevin: I don’t know if this is a game announced, but it’s… (0:10:09) Kevin: Yeah, I guess it is, because they’re announcing their early access October 24th, which will probably already be out by the time people are listening to this. (0:10:18) Kevin: This is… here, let me read their, uh… (0:10:22) Kevin: The elevator pitch, where is it? (0:10:24) Kevin: A cozy open-ended life sim about finding your feet in the big city, decorate your apartment, make new friends, grow too many houseplants, and love your city life. (0:10:33) Kevin: Um, so it… yeah, it’s… it’s city-based, right? So you’re in an apartment, you’re not running a whole farm, but you can grow plants, you can have pets, um, make relationships and whatnot. (0:10:46) Kevin: The art style is… (0:10:48) Kelly: That’s the most realistic farming sim. (0:10:52) Kevin: » [LAUGH] (0:10:54) Kevin: » No, you’re right. (0:10:59) Kevin: » Yeah, yeah, Kelly can. (0:11:00) Kevin: Well, no, you’re in the house now, you’re not in an apartment anymore. (0:11:03) Kelly: No, but definitely, you know, went through that also, like, how do I keep my plans alive in my apartment when there’s no sun? (0:11:04) Kevin: But yeah, you know the feeling. (0:11:12) Kevin: Man, gosh, you’re super right. (0:11:16) Kevin: Boy, there’s a person showing an apartment with a lot of bunnies in their apartment, that seems difficult. (0:11:23) Kevin: You’re gonna have that many bunnies in an apartment. (0:11:26) Kevin: The art style is, it’s 2D pixelated, but it’s not Stardew-esque. (0:11:31) Kevin: It’s a little more cutesy than that, and I don’t know how to best describe it. (0:11:35) Kevin: And all the NPCs are kind of bobbing their head at the same time to some unknown beat, it is cute looking. (0:11:43) Kevin: And it’s only the early access, so I’m sure it’ll grow considerably more. (0:11:51) Kevin: That is, you know. (0:11:52) Kevin: October 23rd? 24th? I’m seeing two different days. (0:11:58) Kelly: I definitely want to follow up on it because just looking at the coming soon photo, it’s like why is there an iguana on the sidewalk? (0:12:06) Kevin: Hahaha! (0:12:06) Kelly: Can I have an iguana? (0:12:07) Kevin: Wait, you havin’ a guana? (0:12:08) Kelly: And then there’s also the bear man. (0:12:10) Kevin: Wait, wait, wait, wait, let me see, which one are you talkin’ about? (0:12:10) Kelly: I’m on the steam page, the early access release. (0:12:14) Kevin: What? (0:12:15) Kevin: Okay, okay, let me see… (0:12:17) Kelly: So in the coming soon photo that says steam early access, October 24th, whatever, wishlist now. (0:12:27) Kevin: Okay, okay. Oh, I’m looking at the wrong page. I would explain it wouldn’t it? Yup. There it is. Okay Yeah, I was looking the wrong page. There is a bear man. Why is there a bear man? (0:12:28) Kelly: There’s a bear man in the iguana, like do I get a pet iguana, do I get pet pigeons? (0:12:37) Kevin: Okay, I Okay, I want to mine a department full of pet iguanas that that I can do they’re pretty low-key There are pigeons. So, you know, definitely, you know, they’re hitting Oh, are they gonna have the the trash bags out on the sidewalk? (0:12:55) Kevin: Are they gonna go all in on the city? (0:12:57) Kevin: I don’t know if garland is a city name. It’s a city in texas. I know that much. (0:13:11) Kelly: Yeah. (laughs) (0:13:28) Kevin: But yeah, coming soon, early access. (0:13:31) Kevin: Next up, the clip side of early access, we got DLC patches, whatever you want to call it, for Sunhaven. (0:13:39) Kevin: This is the magical-esque farm where you do magic, there’s monsters, dragons, etc. (0:13:51) Kevin: It is patch 1.3, which includes new buildings. (0:13:58) Kevin: There are several that don’t look human, one is an angel, just straight up an angel. (0:14:04) Kevin: One guy is blue, he’s a moon attendant, whatever that means. (0:14:11) Kevin: You have to, they will be unlockable at some point, but that’s fascinating, dating non-humans like that. (0:14:20) Kevin: Oh, they will have a couple of other romancibles coming later this year. (0:14:28) Kevin: They will also have new farm structures and buildings. (0:14:32) Kevin: Greenhouses, silos, chicken coops, butterfly gardens, I like that. You don’t see that in farming games. (0:14:38) Kelly: That’s very unique, yeah. (0:14:40) Kevin: That’s cute, I love a butterfly garden. (0:14:44) Kevin: Monocyphoners, glorite siphoners, I don’t know what they are, workshops, and ticket counterfeiters. (0:14:54) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but you’re counterfeiting. (0:14:57) Kevin: They’re up to crimes. I like that. (0:14:59) Kevin: I want to know why you can do crimes. (0:15:01) Kevin: Tickets for what? (0:15:03) Kevin: I don’t think they’re concert tickets. (0:15:05) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:15:07) Kevin: But yeah, there’s a whole bunch of other stuff. (0:15:10) Kelly: A lot of stuff. There’s like a ghost shed kit? I want a ghost shed. (0:15:11) Kevin: What does that mean? (0:15:18) Kevin: Do you keep ghosts in there? (0:15:19) Kelly: You grow them in there, maybe? (0:15:21) Kevin: I don’t… (0:15:23) Kevin: Oh wait, there are variations. (0:15:25) Kevin: variations because there’s pumpkin and mushroom. (0:15:27) Kevin: It looks like a ghost, oh I see it. (0:15:29) Kevin: Yeah, it has the eyes, the windows look like eyes and the glow, okay. (0:15:29) Kelly: Oh! (0:15:31) Kelly: That makes so much more sense because I was like oh mushroom shed. That’s just a shed where you grow mushrooms, you know That’s and then I just took the rest of them like that [laughs] (0:15:33) Kevin: Um, sh*t skins, yeah it does. (0:15:36) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, okay. (0:15:44) Kevin: Um, oh that’s the butterfly, wow those are big butterflies. (0:15:47) Kevin: Um, oh those are fascinating buildings. (0:15:49) Kevin: Um, let’s see, player birthdays. (0:15:53) Kevin: There is the birthday, birthday celebration. (0:15:57) Kevin: There is a huge pinata that you can hit, so I’m already down for this. (0:16:01) Kevin: Um, geez that’s like a full sized lion looking pinata, that’s great. (0:16:06) Kevin: Um, that’s uh, so all that’s included in the patch. (0:16:10) Kevin: Aside from that there will be DLC available. (0:16:13) Kevin: Um, all six different packs, trick or treat, spirit battle, rock and roll, cyber pop, monkey monkey, and dreamy ram. (0:16:22) Kevin: They’re all, they contain different items, packs, outfits, items, whatever. (0:16:27) Kevin: You guys can check the Steam page for details. (0:16:30) Kevin: Uh, for, yeah, there’s more details out there than we talked about, but, uh, yeah, that seems like a hefty patch. That seems like fun. (0:16:38) Kelly: Yeah, there’s a lot in this. This page goes on. (0:16:38) Kevin: Um, uh, yeah, it does. Um… (0:16:41) Kelly: And there’s even a coming soon, so… (0:16:43) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they’re talking about future. (0:16:47) Kevin: Um, wow, new season of weather. Wow. (0:16:50) Kevin: Gloomy, what’s the difference between rainy and gloomy rain? I don’t know. (0:16:55) Kelly: Um, I think there’s I could I could understand that one (0:16:55) Kevin: But there you go All right, yeah, I guess. Okay, uh See like out here in Georgia. It’s a little more like rain. Not gloomy rain. Gloomy rains like hurricane force rain That’s what I think Wait no, yeah, okay. I get it (0:17:10) Kelly: No, I think gloomy rain is like when it’s kind of cold and like the sky is just dark and grey all day and it’s like just kind of constant. Like you could have nice rain, like you could have sunny rain, you could have like… (0:17:24) Kevin: Yeah, I do enjoy sun showers. (0:17:25) Kelly: It doesn’t have to be gloomy. (0:17:26) Kelly: Just like a normal rain shower isn’t always gloomy. (0:17:27) Kevin: You’re right. (0:17:28) Kevin: Yeah, no, you’re right, okay, um Yeah, so there’s all the whole bunch of stuff you guys can check that out Is that sorry? Yeah, when’s the release? I didn’t it’s it’s Oct they posted it October 20th It is oh, yeah, it’s already out on Steam. Yeah, so Now time this recording which means by the times you guys are listening. It is definitely available. That is again Sun haven (0:17:58) Kevin: Huh? Oh man, I’m just looking at the picture like a big tree man monster. I might have to check this out I like tree monsters. I I haven’t played a magic game in a minute. Well, I mean, well, maybe our keeper gentle notwithstanding Um, but it’s high, you know fantasy magic II I’m down for that. I could use that Yeah, uh, okay speaking of well, I don’t know more updates (0:18:04) Kelly: right? like i’m kind of like- i’m intrigued. i’m definitely very (0:18:17) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:18:18) Kelly: I feel like this is pretty different, yeah. (0:18:28) Kevin: We have so this is The what I refer to as not a city builder but a village builder because it’s medieval villagey themed But you’re helping build the whole village and run everything it is currently in early access and they are dropping a update for it I’m excited for this game myself. I’m gonna wait for the 1.0, but I love the art style. It’s cutesy and goofy (0:18:59) Kevin: and they are dropping all sorts of things in this update including a An encounter with a misunderstood Cyclops who’s very cute. His eye is just a dot His name is Eric one eye you can there will be a witch’s hut a red hooded girl Who’s looking for her grandma’s house? That that’s a speech. I don’t trust that at all. Oh, no, I don’t like that Hemisary gnomes (0:19:26) Kevin: It was seriously rare! (0:19:28) Kevin: And then a fawn with a really big nose and mustache. Oh, I like this guy. (0:19:33) Kevin: There’s a… and a few more. (0:19:36) Kevin: Well, those are fun characters that they’re adding. I love the art style and it looks really fun on these mythical, magical, whatever you want to call them. (0:19:46) Kevin: Cyclops and fawns. Gnomes. They’re fun looking characters. (0:19:48) Kelly: No, yeah, they look they look so cute. It looks very adorable (0:19:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:19:51) Kevin: Yep. (0:19:53) Kevin: There are, oh gosh, 50 new world events and 30 new objectives. (0:19:58) Kevin: I don’t know what that means, but those are big numbers. (0:20:00) Kevin: Oh, there’s a magic bean. (0:20:03) Kevin: There’s monthly and yearly objectives. (0:20:06) Kevin: Hot weight. Positive and negative events. Oh, oh, they’re, they’re, they’re wild. Okay, I’m down for that. (0:20:15) Kevin: They have, let’s see, new buildings, a laborer guild. Oh, so you can hire better laborers. That’s fun. A bank. (0:20:24) Kevin: Oh, you can tax your villagers at different rates? (0:20:28) Kevin: Oh, that’s awesome. Grand theater? Oh, that’s a nice looking theater. (0:20:34) Kevin: Fisherman’s hut? Fish up stuff? All sorts of quality of life stuff? (0:20:40) Kevin: Well, there’s a lot of graphs in this game and things like that. I’m down for that. (0:20:45) Kevin: Yeah, that’s a lot of stuff coming. Like I said, I’m probably going to wait for 1.0 myself, but I’m glad that it’s coming along nicely. Yeah, that is again fabled. (0:20:57) Kelly: Is there any, is there any real estate or? (0:20:59) Kevin: Go. Oh, it is live. That update is already live as of this recording. (0:21:05) Kevin: So, yay. If anyone is playing the one point or the early access, first of all, (0:21:10) Kevin: somebody tell me if they are because I want to know about it. And it is out already. (0:21:15) Kevin: Um, yeah. All right. Good. Oh man. I’m just trying to fable them. It’s so goofy looking and the. (0:21:23) Kelly: Is there like an overall release date or no? (0:21:33) Kevin: uh not that i’m saying now um I have left here a quick glance um yeah so probably still a hot minute probably sometime in 2024 i’d hope but uh it’s not dead yet so i’ll take that let’s see next up we have uh moonstone island we have dlc for that this is which one’s this one okay all right we so we have dlc come (0:22:11) Kevin: Well, let me get to the details. Yeah, it’s the Halloween update right? That’s the key thing here. Um, (0:22:16) Kelly: I think so, ‘cause it’s for Halloween. (0:22:17) Kevin: We’ve got just a whole bunch of Spooky decors per their website gravestones skeletons a big old pumpkin house um Web’s five types of cobwebs. Oh Oh a rug. That’s just the tongue. That’s clever. I like that. Um, (0:22:38) Kevin: uh So yeah, there. (0:22:41) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:43) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:45) Kelly: I’m sorry, it’s actually not out yet. (0:22:45) Kevin: Okay. (0:22:47) Kelly: It’s not out, which I’m kinda… (0:22:47) Kevin: Um, there are n- some- the- so some of this stuff is DLC, which I’m assuming means purchasable separately, but there will be stuff included for free in the updates on the skeletons and things like that. (0:22:58) Kevin: Um, spirits are free- I don’t know what spirits are in the context of this game, but um, but they’re coming some out. (0:23:05) Kevin: Um, oh wow, I didn’t check- it’s got some good reviews. (0:23:09) Kevin: Um, I’ll have to check that out. (0:23:11) Kevin: Oh wow, what? Oh gosh, I forgot about- I’m remembering the game. (0:23:15) Kevin: There’s- you can fight like robots with a card battling system. (0:23:19) Kevin: They are… (0:23:21) Kevin: Yeah, oh man, oh gosh. (0:23:23) Kelly: These are really cute looking things, these creatures. (0:23:26) Kelly: I, yeah, like, I really like the style of it, yeah. (0:23:26) Kevin: This whole episode’s just me getting excited about games I forgot to get excited about. (0:23:31) Kevin: Um, as if I didn’t have enough already. (0:23:33) Kevin: There are really cute characters- there’s a fishbowl with legs. (0:23:36) Kevin: Um, I like that. (0:23:39) Kevin: that. And then at the end they just. (0:23:41) Kevin: Have a picture of a cat with like a sun hood. I don’t know but um, it’s very cute cat. (0:23:47) Kevin: That is Moonstone Island. That is already out, I believe. Why do we have a date for that? (0:23:52) Kelly: It is a very cute cat. (0:23:54) Kelly: The game is out, it says “NA” for them. (0:23:56) Kevin: Okay, thank you. But it says, while says it’s October 27th. I (0:24:06) Kevin: Couldn’t find that myself. Oh wait. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, October 27th. It’s only $4. (0:24:11) Kevin: Okay, that’s actually not bad at all and 10% off the first week. So there’s 46. (0:24:18) Kevin: Yeah, okay. Oh, it’s a new spirits must be a little monster buddies. That’s what it means. I’m excited. One looks like an apple with a worm through it. They’re just showing silhouettes. I’m just guessing. (0:24:23) Kelly: There you go. (0:24:29) Kevin: And yeah, I don’t know all that. Oh, I might check this out now. It’s a very cute game. (0:24:34) Kevin: Moonstone Island. Um Let’s see Next up we have oh, this isn’t an interesting (0:24:41) Kevin: one because boy, I never thought we’d see this this is Lonesome Village game that I notoriously advocate because the developers are from Mexico. It’s got the cute coyote as you saw puzzles in a tower. They’re coming out the fiscal edition. Pre-orders are live. You can check the show notes for the link. It is not from limited run games actually. A game a site called premium edition games. (0:25:11) Kevin: physical edition which includes all sorts of goodies including oh wow a full-color manual oh that’s exciting Wow a dog tag yeah they do um oh man a manual that’s exciting um yeah it’s great um yeah I I cover this game with Johnny, it was last year or year before, I don’t remember. (0:25:22) Kelly: Dude, the indie games always put so much into like what you get from… (0:25:32) Kelly: I love a manual. (0:25:33) Kelly: A full color manual too, that’s so nice. (0:25:41) Kevin: It’s a fun little game with lots of puzzles, and just very very cute little animal-closing-esque villagers. (0:25:47) Kelly: It looks really cute. The art style kind of reminds me of like Cult of the Lamb, but without the like paper feel. (0:25:47) Kevin: It’s actually funny because in the “story” of the game, so it’s called Lonesome Village because there’s a village and everyone’s kind of been turned to stone or disappeared. (0:26:03) Kevin: And the villains, they’re the people who did it very much look like Cult of the Lamb. (0:26:06) Kelly: Okay. (0:26:07) Kelly: Oh! Oh! It’s a cult! It’s a cult! What is happening here? (0:26:09) Kevin: Yeah. (0:26:12) Kevin: It came out around the time Cult of the Loom. (0:26:14) Kelly: I’m watching the trailer! Oh my god! (0:26:15) Kevin: It looks a lot like Cult of the Loom. (0:26:18) Kevin: The cult from Cult of the Loom. (0:26:20) Kevin: I think we made the joke in the episode. (0:26:22) Kevin: It came out around the same time too. (0:26:25) Kevin: Yep, yep, exactly. Yep. (0:26:26) Kelly: That’s so funny, ‘cause I was thinking it kinda like reminds me of the way they do the animals, like the style of the animals. (0:26:32) Kelly: But now that I’m watching this trailer, it’s like literally… (0:26:32) Kevin: It’s cult, it’s a lot like Cult of the Loom, Cult. (0:26:36) Kelly: That’s so funny. Oh, I gotta play this. (0:26:41) Kevin: Yeah, I have to check it out again. I still have it. (0:26:45) Kevin: It’s been a while. I’m sure they patched it up and done some stuff. (0:26:48) Kevin: ‘Cause I had a few rough edges back then, but I’m curious. (0:26:51) Kevin: I might do another look at it at some point. (0:26:54) Kevin: Because, yeah, props to–but, again, Mexican dev team, so I gotta shout them out. (0:26:59) Kevin: Ogre Pixel, that’s the name. (0:27:02) Kevin: But, yeah, that is a cute little logo of an Ogre–Pixillator Ogre. (0:27:07) Kevin: And again, this is the physical edition release. (0:27:11) Kevin: $40 for the premium edition, which seems to be their only version but includes all sorts of goodies. Um, I When do pre-orders end? I don’t know if I see that but the pre-orders are available now So you can check out the site and get it. Um Alright next up we have Not Garden Galaxy is perfect. We’re heading on the notes. That’s a different game that I was going to cover almost (0:27:42) Kevin: Garden story. That’s the one with the playable grape. That looks a lot like Stardew Valley a lot like It has It’s very cute though the grape that’s playable It is an update that has 11 new languages. Wow, that is a lot of languages I don’t know which ones they are. I just see the It’s out on Steam and switch already this update (0:28:09) Kevin: Very cool. Yeah, I actually don’t know what language is. I don’t know. (0:28:11) Kevin: Let’s see the details. But wow, that’s a big number. Good for them. (0:28:16) Kevin: Always props for making it more available for more people and whatnot. (0:28:19) Kevin: Yep. It is. The grape is very cute. (0:28:20) Kelly: Yeah, that’s always awesome. It really does look like stardew though. It’s cute though (0:28:25) Kevin: Next up, a new game announcement for as far as I can tell. (0:28:31) Kevin: This is called Fantastic Haven, which actually I find really intriguing. (0:28:36) Kevin: It’s the prime… (0:28:40) Kevin: Let me read the– (0:28:41) Kevin: The elevator pitch. (0:28:43) Kevin: So, this is a… (0:28:57) Kevin: Yeah, a Zook cheaper-esque type game, but they’re all magical creatures. (0:29:03) Kevin: Um, so you’re building big pens that look like circular homes more? (0:29:09) Kevin: Um, you alter the land and… (0:29:11) Kevin: It’s full 3D graphics, um, the… I think the actual designs of the creatures are actually quite nice, um… (0:29:18) Kevin: I like animals and critters and… (0:29:21) Kevin: …cheaping them and whatnot, so I’m already pretty interested, um, especially with the spin of… (0:29:26) Kevin: …like, they’re all magical creatures, I don’t see any other animals in here, I see like a griffin, uh… (0:29:31) Kelly: No, I’ve only seen, like, yeah, griffins and some weird frog with, like, horns and stuff. (0:29:31) Kevin: Yup, it’s a bullfrog, you get it? (0:29:36) Kelly: Ah, yes, yes, yes. (0:29:41) Kevin: The color shows a lot more, uh, it looks like you’re even busting some out of, like, cages and, like, carny… (0:29:46) Kevin: …you know, those carnival cages with the wheels, the cars, um… (0:29:51) Kevin: So that’s… that looks very fun, yeah, like I said, a lot of menus, probably, um… (0:29:57) Kevin: …very zookeeper tycoon-esque, um, but with the heavy, uh, magical fantasy paint over it, um… (0:30:06) Kevin: So that is right now the only release date planned is for Q2 of 2024 so it’ll probably be a minute but look forward to it I certainly am those are some fun designs yeah it’s it’s it’s charming enough for me I’m definitely interested um and then lastly okay this one I want to talk about in depth a little more because this one’s affecting me personally uh well actually there’s two me and my neck was night market once again got another patch that one. (0:30:41) Kevin: one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:48) Kevin: I’m not gonna go into the details because I don’t remember them but the other one I want to talk about because we just talked about last week is paleo pines. (0:30:53) Kevin: We just got yup okay so uh one point two point one oh whatever the it’s out on switch so you know it’s out on the steam version or whatever um so uh there’s a lot of quality of life stuff you can do with it. (0:30:54) Kelly: Which I still have to play, but I have not yet. (0:31:11) Kevin: We can change how quickly time passes in the game um oh gosh so one of the after I recorded last week with Spencer and we talked and played I was getting a lot of crashes. (0:31:23) Kevin: They had released a patch previously to fix some of that they said it was like a memory issue um but they were still experiencing it. (0:31:26) Kelly: Mmm. Okay. (0:31:31) Kevin: I felt like the more farther I got in the game the more I was crashed getting crashes uh they addressed some of that. (0:31:37) Kevin: that the game is still not free of crashes because (0:31:41) Kevin: we’ve been probably within an hour after downloading the update the game crashed on me again But it is better in general So they’re definitely aware and working on it at probably top of their list There is Also, there’s a whole list and you can check the show notes for them. I’m trying to look at which ones that are Stand out to me. Oh, there’s a cooking pot (0:31:46) Kelly: Oh, God. (0:32:07) Kevin: But it was weird because it was at some other guy’s house you have to go all the way to this other (0:32:12) Kevin: cook stuff but now you can buy one for your own ranch so that’s great oh here’s a fun one um so you can ride your dinosaurs because of course you can but the thing was whenever you got off of them they would just run away from you at max speed it was whole it was wild you could like try to stop them but um clearly not intended they have addressed that and and this definitely was an update needed and and it works um they will no longer run away from you when you get off of them (0:32:42) Kevin: um yes well luckily I think it was only in the ranch like your home base when it happened they wouldn’t leave you when you’re out in the wild oh my god that would be the worst yes but it’s still a pain because your character is a lot slower than the dinosaur so yeah yeah it’s just a pain having to go across the ranch to find them I mean it’s a pretty big ranch too um (0:32:44) Kelly: feeling it’s like okay nice I can I can get to the place I’m going to but once you’re there you’re stuck there now (0:32:56) Kelly: Oh, okay, okay, I was picturing like you, yeah, like you in the middle of like some field or something. (0:33:12) Kevin: uh there’s all sorts oh horse lock so there was a uh resource called forestwood that was needed for a lot of things it was pretty rare they increased the respawn on that that’s great um they did some ui improvements which were nice uh um lots of other things some oh there was a storage glitch spencer talked about think they fixed that um yeah just sort lots of little things (0:33:42) Kevin: because there were lots of little things that needed fixing um like I said still not 100 percent yeah yeah there is um where is it do they not have it um so there there is I read there is one glitch that they haven’t addressed yet um they know it’s an issue but for some reason at some point and it’s happened to me your game will reset to the first day of the game because there’s you know calendar like most farm. (0:34:12) Kevin: games and whatnot like you’ll keep all your stuff but somehow the calendar will just have reset to the very first game or very first day of the year which is wild um luckily I was able to get around that if you encounter it you can just reload an old save and it’s fine but um that was the wild glitch to see um but yeah that was I’m glad that came out because that addressed a lot of the little nitpicks Spencer and I had with the game and I’m sure (0:34:42) Kevin: they’re still working hard on that so good for you paleopines that update again is out already for switch and probably the other versions whatever versions it’s on all right so that was uh yeah the hearty helping of news and things but that’s now we’re doing that let’s talk about grave graveyard keeper yeah what’s what’s the tagline the most inaccurate medieval simulator isn’t that (0:35:09) Kelly: Something like that. I know inaccurate is involved of [laugh] (0:35:14) Kevin: Hold on let me look at it. Um the most inaccurate cemetery simulation game. Okay. Yeah, I think that’s what it is Okay Well Yeah, so again, um It and this game’s been up for years at this point. Um, I’ll covered it years ago Yeah. Yeah, there you go. That’s cute (0:35:24) Kelly: Oh, the most inaccurate medieval, yeah, cemetery sim of the year. (0:35:36) Kelly: Uh, they had their five year anniversary actually in August. (0:35:42) Kevin: There’s a bunch of DLC I bought the (0:35:44) Kevin: version with all the DLC I don’t know what the base game hazard does not have. (0:35:48) Kevin: I’ve only played it for an afternoon or two. I don’t think I’ve reached any of the DLC portions yet probably. (0:35:49) Kelly: Oh, did you? Okay. (0:35:57) Kevin: They’re all parody names there’s a stranger sins there’s breaking something (0:35:57) Kelly: Um, I’m trying to remember. I know the DLC… (0:35:59) Kelly: Yes, because there’s better save soul. (0:36:04) Kelly: Um, I did look into getting them, but I didn’t- I didn’t, because I think it was like- (0:36:11) Kelly: I feel like there’s- there’s so much going on in this game already. (0:36:14) Kevin: Even if it is, there’s a lot going on. (0:36:14) Kelly: Uh, that I was very happy to not have the added, um, things that like go along with the better save soul one. I heard that gets a lot of pretty tedious. (0:36:24) Kevin: Yeah, heh heh heh. (0:36:25) Kevin: Better save solo, that’s good. (0:36:29) Kevin: I don’t think that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:31) Kevin: That’s it? I don’t know if that one’s out on Switch. (0:36:32) Kelly: Oh, are you playing on Switch? I am not gonna lie. I have not. (0:36:36) Kelly: I’ve been so bad at playing my Switch this year. (0:36:44) Kevin: But, I mean, that’s fine, like, I know that the Switch port gets black for a good reason. (0:36:55) Kevin: There’s a Switch tax for sure, so I don’t blame you. (0:36:57) Kevin: But hey, at least we can compare notes on that. (0:37:00) Kevin: If you played on Steam, I would guess? (0:37:10) Kevin: Um, but okay, so let’s okay, let’s the elevator pitch Okay, first of all, I didn’t expect that this game’s an isekai That I didn’t expect at all so for people unfamiliar with isekai that is a genre of anime primarily where a character wakes up in a simulated often fantasy type world (0:37:38) Kevin: Sword Art Online and just… (0:37:40) Kevin: …other ones. It’s a whole trope now. (0:37:42) Kevin: Umm… (0:37:43) Kelly: I was gonna say it breaks the, you know, inherited your grandpa’s farm trope though. (0:37:44) Kevin: … (0:37:46) Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. (0:37:48) Kevin: You’re just a guy who gets hit by a car cause he’s looking at his phone. (0:37:52) Kevin: Don’t look at your phone when crossing the streets. (0:37:54) Kevin: It’s dark in the rain, people. (0:37:56) Kevin: It’s not recommended. (0:37:58) Kevin: And he wakes… (0:37:59) Kelly: Poor dude’s just trying to give back to his girlfriend or whatever. (0:38:00) Kevin: …yeah, his love, as he says, and… (0:38:03) Kevin: …he wakes up in a graveyard area and… (0:38:08) Kevin: There’s a talking skull that talks to you. (0:38:10) Kevin: And he says, “Hey, welcome. You’re the graveyard keeper, I guess.” (0:38:13) Kevin: Um, more or less, and sure enough, you’re put in charge of this graveyard in this little medieval village area. (0:38:23) Kevin: And you’re trying to figure out how to get back home while managing the graveyard and all the stuff people are asking you. (0:38:32) Kevin: Because, of course, people are going to ask you to do everything around here. (0:38:35) Kevin: Uh… (0:38:36) Kelly: I mean, what would a game be without everybody asking you to do all these things? (0:38:40) Kevin: Right, right. (0:38:42) Kevin: Um, so, okay, hell, you beat the game, correct? What are your overall impressions? (0:38:50) Kelly: I really liked the game. I thought it was a lot of fun. I think there’s a lot of stuff to do, (0:38:57) Kelly: like it can get a bit overwhelming, but I think, you know, it definitely involves, you know, (0:38:59) Kevin: Boy does it. (0:39:01) Kevin: Oh. Yep. (0:39:04) Kelly: looking things up online. But I will say there is an issue with how intuitive it is. (0:39:08) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:10) Kevin: Yep. (0:39:12) Kelly: I think I could have been further along in my gameplay if I understood some of the (0:39:20) Kelly: panics. A lot better. And I will say on that note, it was not always easy to find the answers on the internet. So that made it even worse. And sometimes if you did find an answer, (0:39:21) Kevin: Yep. Okay, so yeah, so. Mm-hmm. (0:39:31) Kevin: Oh yeah, the double whammy, oh yeah. (0:39:35) Kevin: Yup, it’s wild. (0:39:38) Kelly: it was from like 2018, so something got patched or didn’t work like that anymore. (0:39:46) Kelly: So, that was my biggest issue. (0:39:48) Kelly: Did it stop me from putting in, you know, (0:39:50) Kelly: 90 hours, I think, or whatever into the game? (0:39:55) Kelly: No, but there were definitely moments where I was frustrated. (0:39:59) Kelly: Or, like, again, just like, I was playing the game, I was enjoying myself, (0:40:03) Kelly: but I could have been further along than what I was. (0:40:07) Kevin: Yeah, um, okay. Mm-hmm Okay, yeah for sure they’re just Yeah, absolutely. Um, so for comparison I got the game Thursday I think today’s like Saturday. So two days ago So I’ve only played for and Mario wonder so I didn’t play as much yesterday So I played the game for an afternoon and then some um, I like the game a lot. Um, (0:40:07) Kelly: And not even in, like, a micromanagy, like, you know, whatever kind of way. (0:40:13) Kelly: Like, in, like, a… (0:40:15) Kelly: It would have made more sense. (0:40:26) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:40:37) Kevin: I think it is Almost minecrafty and how open it is and crafting and everything But I fully agree like that’s my biggest criticism there’s a lot that is not intuitive Or explained well Yep, yep, yep, I’m sure (0:40:50) Kelly: you haven’t even gotten or opened a lot of the, you know, different aspects of the game yet at this point, I’m sure, because it really expands. It expands a lot. There is a lot to do. There is so (0:41:03) Kevin: But I can imagine… I mean I see the skill tree. (0:41:07) Kevin: So… I can… I can… she’s… I can… (0:41:12) Kevin: So there’s a skill tree in this game, right? You have to get points to unlock your skills. (0:41:18) Kevin: And you can see how far it goes. And yes, I can see there’s a lot to unlock and do and whatnot. (0:41:24) Kevin: But… I think the skill tree is probably where I can direct my first criticism. (0:41:32) Kevin: Because there’s three types of points, whatever you want to call them. (0:41:37) Kevin: Red, green, and blue, and you need different amounts of each for unlocking each new skill, which lets you craft new things or do new things, whatnot. (0:41:46) Kevin: Um, the red and green work hard to get, but the blue, the blue is killing me because I hit a point where I had like one blue point overall and couldn’t figure out how to get more. (0:41:56) Kelly: You run out of them. (0:41:58) Kevin: Yeah. (0:41:59) Kelly: There’s a certain point where the game just stops you from getting more for a bit. (0:42:02) Kevin: Really? Wow. (0:42:04) Kelly: Not like stops you. (0:42:06) Kelly: There’s definitely a roadblock, I would say. (0:42:11) Kevin: - Yeah, okay. (0:42:14) Kelly: I struggled with that for so long. (0:42:17) Kelly: And then, of course, at a certain point, it’s like, oh. (0:42:20) Kelly: Now, actually, you’re out of red. (0:42:23) Kelly: Or now you’re out of green or whatever. (0:42:25) Kelly: And it’s like, oh, something that I– (0:42:26) Kelly: so I think one of them is done from manual labor, red, I think. (0:42:27) Kevin: yep yep your manufacturing and things yeah red okay oh you don’t get read from them (0:42:34) Kelly: Yeah, so at a certain point, you get helper zombies that you can assign to do things. (0:42:42) Kelly: So you’re no longer getting the red from those things that you would be getting red from. (0:42:47) Kelly: So it definitely makes you have to stop and think and watch everything. (0:42:56) Kevin: Yup, absolutely, um, it’s a very resource-manage-y heavy game and that includes your skill points or whatever you want to call them. (0:43:07) Kevin: That’s fascinating. (0:43:09) Kevin: Like I can see the blue are going to be very scarce. (0:43:11) Kelly: But I think it’s interesting because it does… (0:43:13) Kelly: Sorry, I was gonna say it just it does impact, I feel like, (0:43:18) Kelly: what you’re trying to do in that day. Because if you’re trying to get blue points… (0:43:19) Kevin: Right. Yeah, exactly. (0:43:22) Kevin: The nice thing, one of the nicest things about the game, (0:43:26) Kevin: there’s no real pressure. (0:43:28) Kevin: There’s no seasons or years or whatever. (0:43:31) Kevin: There’s a week. (0:43:32) Kevin: So like in six, seven, I don’t remember how long, how many days, (0:43:36) Kevin: but that’s the worst that you have to wait. (0:43:37) Kelly: It’s seven days Which and I liked I like I really like the fact that there was no pressure on the seasons or When you finished the game even or anything like that. I also liked the Each day is a different person You have to make sure that you’re getting the things you need to have done before that day so you can go and deal with that person (0:43:38) Kevin: Yep. Which go by quickly. (0:43:42) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:43:57) Kevin: Yep. (0:44:03) Kevin: Yep, he just gotta wait until… (0:44:03) Kelly: Because there’s definitely some weeks where if you miss that person you’re screwed (0:44:07) Kelly: Yup. And there is something later on in the game, you know, when things have slowed down in certain areas and you’re just like waiting for that one day where you can fast forward. (0:44:10) Kevin: Until that point. (0:44:21) Kelly: Yes, but I do actually want to say on that point, I think this is very interesting because there is no pause button. There’s no space yet. (0:44:21) Kevin: Yeah, sure that makes sense. Yeah, you can fast-forward at any point you should go to sleep and (0:44:32) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, even if you’re in your menus, time goes on. (0:44:37) Kelly: Yeah, you have to literally like go to the exit screen or whatever. Like the main menu page. (0:44:41) Kevin: Yeah Yep Yep, so if you’re looking through your notes here You know hemming and hawing at a menu thinking about where you want to spend your points that happened to me just just today When I was playing I cuz I finally got some blue points today. And so I was just like agonizing over I wanted where I wanted to spend them and before when I got out of the menu Oh, it’s evening already. Cool. The whole day’s [laughter] (0:44:43) Kelly: There’s a certain page that stops time, but the rest of them don’t. (0:44:48) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:09) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:11) Kelly: Yep. (0:45:12) Kevin: But they’re the kind of I mean, I don’t know if it was their intent or not But the way to combat that it’s very easy to reroll your did your save like you own there’s no autosave It just saves when you go when you wake up So most of the time you can say you’re pretty much have a safe at the start of the date or start of the day, excuse me, and You can just reload to that and have a plan or save yourself (0:45:23) Kelly: Oh, yes. (0:45:25) Kelly: Yes. (0:45:29) Kelly: I would just quit the game. (0:45:32) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:45:40) Kelly: Oh yeah, no, there was many times where I would either just, you would see like the NPC walking away from their post, and I would have to go and reset the game and then do the day over and make sure I got there early enough. (0:45:47) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:50) Kevin: Yep. (0:45:52) Kevin: Oh my gosh. (0:45:54) Kevin: That happened to me twice already when I go down and Snake is running away and like, “No, I need to talk to you, Snake.” (0:46:02) Kelly: oh god he’s so annoying he’s so annoying for the skill points though I think it’s like kind of fun like there’s some weird ones you can choose from uh-huh (0:46:05) Kevin: He is. (0:46:08) Kevin: He is. (0:46:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:46:13) Kevin: Overall, I’m a big fan of the Skilled Trees, umm… (0:46:17) Kevin: Because you can very much pick and choose if you want to focus on certain areas and whatnot. (0:46:23) Kevin: Umm, obviously like… (0:46:25) Kevin: To get green points, that’s the farming stuff, so you do want to invest in some of that stuff. (0:46:30) Kevin: Umm, but like, early on you can really get through a lot of the wood and metalworking stuff. (0:46:37) Kevin: Umm, and again, with almost no pressure on when to do it, umm, it’s… (0:46:42) Kevin: It’s very open and you’re very free to pick and choose as you want. (0:46:46) Kevin: You know, (0:46:47) Kevin: the limitations of how many skill points you actually have notwithstanding. (0:46:52) Kevin: I think it is a clever system. (0:46:54) Kevin: And because you get to see what’s coming ahead, that helps you plan that too. (0:47:00) Kevin: I really like that. (0:47:01) Kelly: Yes, definitely. (0:47:01) Kevin: Um… (0:47:02) Kelly: There was definitely some areas in the skill tree though where I did not understand what, (0:47:09) Kelly: like if you unlocked something, (0:47:12) Kelly: I didn’t understand how to access it afterwards, (0:47:15) Kelly: which then led to me diving down a rabbit hole, (0:47:18) Kelly: trying to figure it out. (0:47:18) Kevin: Yeah, sometimes that’s a little unclear most of the time When you look at the skill tree thing it says okay, you can craft at this bench or that bench or whatever But some are not very clear. Yeah Some aren’t super clear. Yeah But I do agree (0:47:27) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it definitely is pretty good. (0:47:30) Kelly: It’s pretty good. (0:47:34) Kelly: Can we talk about the main premise of the game, which I think is the most weird and fun part is, you know, collecting your corpses? (0:47:41) Kevin: Yeah, the it’s definitely yeah the differentiator the the the graveyard itself. Yeah, let’s talk about that (0:47:43) Kelly: Because you are, you are quite literally the graveyard keeper. So you get a (0:47:54) Kelly: Annoyed little donkey that delivers corpses to you. (0:47:56) Kevin: I’m red donkey from a leftist stable [laughter] (0:47:57) Kelly: And oh my god, there was so many times where I would hear that bell and just be so far away from home. (0:48:06) Kelly: And just go running because it’s like the second you hear that bell that corpse starts, you know, deteriorating. (0:48:12) Kevin: Yep Yeah, that’s that’s an interesting aspect that the forps is deteriorate and it affects a lot of things And yeah, they’re kind of deliver just at random times. It feels like I didn’t detect any pattern Umm… (0:48:22) Kelly: Yeah. (0:48:23) Kelly: Yes. (0:48:27) Kelly: No, they can definitely be whenever. (0:48:31) Kelly: And they can pile up too. (0:48:34) Kevin: Oh my gosh, I don’t think I’ve had that happen yet, but I could see that happening. (0:48:35) Kelly: Yeah, no, they can definitely pile up. (0:48:43) Kelly: I mean, this game goes in depth. (0:48:48) Kelly: I have freezers for bodies. (0:48:53) Kelly: So, you know, it’s like you are literally treating it like a morgue, like… (0:48:57) Kelly: But I think one of the most fun parts is removing the organs, (0:49:03) Kelly: but also the most hard to understand initially. (0:49:06) Kevin: Right, so yeah, let’s talk about that because as very early on you’re introduced that you have options to do the corpse One you can bury them in your graveyard. It has a prettiness rating you how you decorate it Well, you bury them and whatnot You can even just throw it in the river or cremate them or You can take them into your morgan Do a little bisection, you know see what you can poke around and find in there pull out a skull some blood What? (0:49:36) Kevin: A bit of flesh. (0:49:38) Kevin: It’s fascinating that they gave you this option. (0:49:43) Kevin: There’s… (0:49:44) Kevin: I haven’t gotten too in-depth with the body parts. (0:49:47) Kelly: So, I’ll explain it. It’s a lot. (0:49:51) Kelly: Basically, your corpse, so when you bury a corpse, you want it to be as high rated as possible because it impacts your cemeteries overall like beauty rating, (0:50:05) Kelly: which is a whole different aspect. (0:50:07) Kelly: And that’s a big part of the game because it kind of roadblocks you if you don’t keep up with it. (0:50:11) Kelly: But so you want to make sure you’re removing. (0:50:14) Kelly: If you remove certain organs, it makes your corpses… (0:50:17) Kelly: …that’s how you can remove them. (0:50:19) Kelly: If you remove other organs, it decreases it, and they don’t really tell you at first. (0:50:23) Kelly: You have to unlock skills on the skill tree… (0:50:25) Kelly: …that tell you. (0:50:25) Kevin: Yeah, I mean they tell you like there’s bad organs, but you don’t you can’t tell which ones until you go get that later (0:50:29) Kelly: Yes. Yes. (0:50:34) Kelly: And so you can remove organs, and you can also try to put the organ back. (0:50:38) K

Kev and Spencer talk about Paleo Pines Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:21: What Have We Been Up To 00:14:37: News 00:37:08: Paleo Pines 01:45:09: Outro Links Garden Buddies Release Garden Buddies Release Trailer Ikonei Island Friends Pass Farming Simulator 22 Carrots Preview Garden Galaxy Autumn Update Mineko’s Night Market Patches Paleo Pines Patches Animal Crossing Lego Paleo Pines Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:31) Kevin: Welcome farmers to the harvest season! (0:00:48) Spencer: Spared no expense. (0:00:49) Kevin: Hello. See what I wanted… I would have preferred the kazoo version. Have you heard that one? The kazoo version of Jurassic Park? Oh, I’ll have to send you a (0:00:50) Spencer: I have not heard that version. (0:01:00) Spencer: Aha. (0:01:01) Kevin: link. It’s an amazing one. I’ll do that right now. But in the meanwhile, hello listeners, farmers. I’m your host, Kevin, and with me today is Spencer! (0:01:14) Spencer: Yes, they thought they could get rid of me after the last episode I was on, but I’m back, (0:01:21) Spencer: so deal with it. (0:01:22) Kevin: And why? Because dinosaurs, of course, um, we are here to talk about, uh, (0:01:32) Kevin: Heliopines and Spencer, our resident dinosaur lover, alongside me. (0:01:40) Kevin: Um, I’m also a big fan. Um, we’re, uh, we were both very excited for this one. (0:01:46) Spencer: Yeah, I remember seeing it and I was like, “Oh man, I gotta wedge my way, force my way in with Al this time again.” (0:01:50) Kevin: Yeah. (0:01:53) Kevin: Yup, yup. (0:01:55) Kevin: But before that, um, you know–oh, see, I sent you the kazoo cover of Jurassic Park. (0:02:03) Kevin: Um, but before we get into paleopines, as usual, we’re gonna cover some news and other stuff. (0:02:11) Kevin: As usual, you can find the show notes and the transcript on the website, as always. (0:02:20) Kevin: Alright, but what we- (0:02:23) Spencer: Ah, games I’ve been playing. Well, I was playing Tears of the Kingdom for a while, and then, honestly, I’ve been playing a couple mobile games, so I started playing Monster Hunter now. (0:02:35) Spencer: Are you playing that? (0:02:36) Kevin: Oh, I am not okay first off for have you played Monster Hunter not mobile version Okay Uh-huh, right Okay Okay, but you hunted some things you have familiarity, okay, okay (0:02:37) Spencer: Oh, yeah. (0:02:45) Spencer: So I have Rise, and I also have Worlds, I think it is, for PS4. (0:02:51) Spencer: I just barely scratched the surface of both of them. (0:02:55) Spencer: I think it got a little bit farther in Rise than I did in Worlds. (0:02:59) Spencer: Oh yeah, I definitely hunted some things. (0:03:05) Spencer: See, the issue with me in those kind of games is like… (0:03:06) Kevin: Uh huh. (0:03:07) Spencer: The feedback loop for that kind of stuff is actually really… (0:03:12) Spencer: I like really enjoy it, but I get stuck on like (0:03:15) Spencer: the first level, because I’m like, “Oh cool, I hunted this monster. Let me like, hunt it again. Let me hunt it again.” (0:03:21) Kevin: Uh-huh, right. (0:03:21) Spencer: I just keep on hunting the same thing over and over again, and I never end up proceeding to the next level or the next area or wherever. (0:03:23) Kevin: I mean, that’s fine. You’ve got to do that at app points. (0:03:29) Spencer: Yeah, that’s true. So I am familiar with the series a little bit, but yeah, it’s been playing a lot of now. (0:03:41) Spencer: Well, I was playing a lot of now. (0:03:42) Kevin: Oh, okay, so tell me about now, because I’m fascinated how this works, but this is by Niantic, the Pokemon Go people. (0:03:43) Spencer: kind of… (0:03:49) Spencer: Yeah, so… (0:03:53) Spencer: So basically, like, while you’re walking around, you know, there’ll just be like, monsters kind of out where you are. (0:04:00) Spencer: Um, god, I think someone pointed out… (0:04:02) Spencer: It’s almost like the movie, in that it’s our world, but the monsters have now kind of like, invaded our world. (0:04:10) Spencer: Um, so you’re just walking around, there’ll be like, lesser monsters, you know, (0:04:15) Spencer: and like, ones that would actually be like, a hunt in the real game. (0:04:18) Spencer: And, you just fight ’em, you’re kind of timed, similarly to how you would do like a, say like a raid in Pokemon Go. (0:04:26) Spencer: Um, a lot more… (0:04:28) Spencer: Intensive than Pokemon Go, if you’ll believe that. (0:04:32) Spencer: You’re still basically clicking. (0:04:34) Spencer: But you can like… (0:04:35) Kevin: Okay, sure I right you’re you’re on mobile there’s only so much you can do right uh-huh (0:04:36) Spencer: Yeah, you can like, swipe to dodge. (0:04:40) Spencer: Yeah, you can swipe to dodge, you can get perfect, like, you know, perfect dodges and stuff. (0:04:45) Spencer: Um, and then there are some combinations. (0:04:48) Spencer: ‘Cause I’m using, um, what is it, Greatsword? (0:04:51) Spencer: And you can like, kind of do this thing where you like, if you start swinging and then you swipe, you’ll do kind of that shoulder, you know, shoulder charge attack. (0:05:03) Kevin: - Yeah, yeah, right. (0:05:03) Spencer: So there are definitely like, combos and stuff that you can figure out. (0:05:06) Spencer: It would benefit from a like, tutorial, you know, like in a fighting game, you have your little like, tutorial, you know, practice area. (0:05:15) Kevin: - Right. (0:05:15) Spencer: Or something like that, ‘cause you can like, then you could figure out, yeah, training room. (0:05:16) Kevin: - Oh, okay, yeah, training room, yeah. (0:05:20) Spencer: Um, but yeah, so you walk around, you fight monsters, you collect, uh, collect different resources, your little, um… (0:05:29) Spencer: What are the little cats called? (0:05:32) Kevin: Uh, the Palicos? (0:05:33) Spencer: Palakos, yeah, you have one, so it runs around and collects resources for you. (0:05:34) Kevin: Right, right. (0:05:38) Spencer: Um, it’ll also mark monsters too, so you can like, come back. (0:05:41) Spencer: back. Yeah, it’s pretty, my understanding is it’s a little bit more leaning. (0:05:45) Spencer: towards the world’s aesthetic. So the different monsters from there and stuff. (0:05:48) Kevin: Yeah, okay, sure. (0:05:50) Spencer: It’s fun. You kind of plateau a little bit if you aren’t able to go out and get resources. I’ve needed to upgrade like my weapons for a while now but I just simply can’t find find the resources I need. So it is what it is. But yeah, it’s been fun. (0:06:00) Kevin: Ahh. (0:06:02) Kevin: Okay. (0:06:04) Kevin: Have you tried any other weapons? (0:06:09) Spencer: Well, in Rise and in World I was using Swishax, which is not in this. (0:06:14) Kevin: Right what what (0:06:15) Spencer: Unfortunately. Yeah, they left it out. So I had to go with the next best thing. (0:06:22) Spencer: They do have, you know, your like kind of daily challenges that give you experience for your rank and some of the challenges will ask of you to do things with other weapons. So they do try to like kind of get you to branch out. It’ll be like, “Oh, (0:06:40) Spencer: kill three monsters with like a hammer or something like that.” So you will inevitably have at least one of each weapon somewhat, you know, upgraded and stuff so that way those little challenges won’t be such a pain. (0:06:40) Kevin: Okay. Okay. (0:06:52) Kevin: Uh-huh okay okay I I asked because so for people who aren’t familiar with monster hunter as the name implies right you’re just out hunting monsters but there’s different types of weapons and they all play significantly differently so I wonder like is that the same here does a bow hunt player feel different (0:07:20) Spencer: They definitely do. The, you know, like the sword and shield is a lot faster. You start off with that too. (0:07:27) Spencer: So you kind of like, I think you don’t even get to choose a different weapon until you reach rank 10. (0:07:33) Spencer: Which can go by pretty quickly depending on like the area you are and you know how close you are. (0:07:40) Spencer: Much like Pokemon Go, you know, it’s a lot of it’s dependent on how close you are to like stops and other points of interest, right? (0:07:46) Spencer: So, you know, if you’re close to things like that… (0:07:50) Spencer: …you’re ranking probably go up pretty quickly within the first day. (0:07:54) Spencer: And you can get to the other weapons. (0:07:56) Spencer: But yeah, there is definitely a different playstyle to each one. (0:08:00) Spencer: You know, for as much as it is just tapping and swiping. (0:08:04) Kevin: Okay, all right, that’s interesting, but the fact that they don’t have the Switch X weapon I’ve played for Decade Plus, yeah, I know that game goes in the trash. (0:08:18) Spencer: Yeah, it was kind of a bummer when I saw that, I was like, “Oh man!” (0:08:24) Kevin: Alright, what else have you been up to? (0:08:25) Spencer: Umm, that and, oh god, this is so embarrassing for me to admit, but have you ever seen the ads for uh, that mobile game, Raid? (0:08:35) Kevin: Rage Battle Legends! (0:08:37) Spencer: Shadow Legends, yeah! (0:08:38) Kevin: Did you get your 300 free heroes? (0:08:39) Spencer: I was just, I was like, I… (0:08:43) Spencer: I did not, I just downloaded it, I was like, “What is this game about?” I keep seeing (0:08:48) Spencer: it, let me just try it, you know, if, for those of you who don’t know me, I download too many mobile games, and then my phone is just like full of them, and I don’t play them, (0:08:59) Spencer: and it’s just, it’s a bad habit that I need to stop and break, but I was like, “Whatever, (0:09:04) Spencer: they have money to hire all these famous actors to promote their game, so maybe it’s good.” (0:09:11) Spencer: And it’s not bad, I’ll be honest, you know what, it’s not bad, it is definitely a mobile game. It has everything you’d expect from a mobile game. It has… (0:09:18) Spencer: you know, timed items, rechargeable energy, you know, all the little… that bombards you with buying packs and stuff, but you know, whatever. (0:09:30) Spencer: I’m not into PvP too much, so I’m not concerned about having the best champions right away and stuff, but you know, it’s a mobile game. (0:09:40) Spencer: I don’t know what else there is to say about it. You wait for things. (0:09:43) Kevin: Okay, like okay, what do the it’s a is it a it’s it a gotcha game? I’m assuming it’s a gotcha game right to get your (0:09:52) Spencer: yeah so there are there are these like hero crystals or something I’ve only been playing it for not too long so pardon me for any any hardcore raid players out there I just called the whatever you know these crystals and you like summon heroes and stuff and you know nine times out of ten you’re summoning one that’s gonna be used for fodder for something else but every once in a while you’ll summon some epic hero or whatever so yeah it’s a gachi game (0:10:01) Kevin: Okay [laughter] (0:10:20) Kevin: Okay, are there any cool designs? (0:10:23) Spencer: » They’re all pretty cool. (0:10:25) Spencer: If you are into like, you know, very like high fantasy and dark fantasy kind of stuff. (0:10:30) Spencer: They have some good stuff, you know, like Lord of the Rings or like, (0:10:34) Spencer: I don’t know what else, The Witcher. (0:10:37) Spencer: If you’re into that kind of stuff, then you’ll probably be drawn to the aesthetic. (0:10:39) Kevin: Okay, hi, Fanny. (0:10:41) Spencer: Yeah, there are, it is a little odd, some of the designs, (0:10:46) Spencer: cuz like they lean into like fantasy of multiple cultures. (0:10:52) Spencer: There’s like a whole subset of like, you know, (0:10:55) Spencer: clearly Asian inspired fantasy people and creatures. (0:10:58) Kevin: Oh, door. Okay. (0:11:00) Spencer: Which is kind of interesting to see with more European style, (0:11:05) Spencer: more medieval style fantasy. (0:11:08) Spencer: You know, you’ll have your like, knights of the round table style knight fighting alongside like a ninja, but I mean, (0:11:17) Spencer: I can see why they have enough money to make ads like that, so it’s very solid. (0:11:22) Kevin: Yeah? (0:11:23) Spencer: I will say that, yeah. (0:11:23) Kevin: And hey, now that it’s been brought on the podcast, I’m sure they’ll approach us for a sponsorship now. (0:11:28) Spencer: Hopefully, yeah, you’re welcome. (0:11:29) Kevin: There you go, Al. (0:11:31) Kevin: I can’t wait for Al to read how much he loves rage at relations. (0:11:37) Kevin: Um… (0:11:40) Kevin: Okay. (0:11:41) Kevin: Oh, hey- (0:11:41) Spencer: What have you been playing? (0:11:43) Kevin: Ugh… (0:11:45) Kevin: Mostly- (0:11:46) Kevin: Mostly paleopines, I don’t lie. (0:11:48) Kevin: Um… (0:11:49) Kevin: This week’s been a lot of paleopines. (0:11:53) Kevin: But, uh, before that, I’m going to plug the other show, Rainbow Road Radio, (0:12:01) Kevin: hosted by my- our mutual friend Alex, and I happen to be on it. (0:12:07) Kevin: We covered Luigi’s Mansion last week, we are back from our break. (0:12:12) Kevin: And, uh, to kick off Spooktober- (0:12:15) Kevin: Well, you know, Halloween, whatever. (0:12:18) Kevin: Uh, we played Luigi’s Mansion. (0:12:20) Kevin: Um, the original for the GameCube. (0:12:20) Spencer: Oh, okay, okay, I was going to ask, didn’t they re-release it for DS, correct, or 3DS? (0:12:22) Kevin: Uh, yeah. (0:12:24) Kevin: Yes. (0:12:27) Kevin: Actually, that’s interesting because Alex played it on the DS. (0:12:31) Kevin: He did the remake, I did the original version. (0:12:34) Kevin: Um, and it’s interesting to hear those comparisons, but I will say, overall, like, that’s still a really good game. (0:12:43) Kevin: I never ha- I hadn’t played it before, actually. (0:12:45) Kevin: This is my first time playing the original. (0:12:45) Spencer: Oh wow, really? (0:12:46) Kevin: Yeah, um, so no nostalgia rose-colored glasses or whatever. (0:12:52) Spencer: I think that was the first game I got for my GameCube. That and Wave Race, yeah. (0:12:52) Kevin: But I enjoyed it. (0:12:53) Kevin: Yeah. (0:12:57) Kevin: Ooh, waveries, that’s a good one. (0:12:58) Spencer: Yeah. (0:13:00) Kevin: Um, uh, yeah, it was a launch game, I think, for the GameCube, so that makes sense. (0:13:05) Kevin: Um, I was surprised- one thing I was surprised by, because I had seen- I played the second one, Dark Moon, (0:13:14) Kevin: and I watched my brother play Luigi’s Mansion 3. (0:13:18) Kevin: So what I didn’t expect is Luigi’s Mansion 1, boy that they… (0:13:22) Kevin: Saw Resident Evil and said “What if we do Resident Evil with the Luigi?” (0:13:27) Kevin: Um, because boy that feels like a Resident Evil game, both the tank controls and the aesthetic, um, but overall very fun. (0:13:36) Kevin: Uh, so yeah, uh, check that episode out if you want more details on that, um, (0:13:36) Spencer: Mm-hmm. (0:13:44) Kevin: But yeah, aside from that, uh, a lot of the usual stuff, uh, (0:13:50) Kevin: a holly right it’s october now so every (0:13:52) Kevin: thing’s getting spooky and whatnot masters has yeah masters has Pokemon masters has spooky costumes rock sand looks great in her witch outfit Pokemon unite is getting mimic you in a week or two and Marvel snaps getting all sort of spooky cards for this season and I love the dumb monsters that they have in Marvel so I’m really happy uh but yeah that’s what I’ve been up (0:13:55) Spencer: Yeah, all the spooky updates. (0:14:22) Kevin: to like I said though a lot of paleopines I don’t think I’ve played anything else on my switch this week of the paleopines right right ok and we’ll get into wide later but before that let’s talk about the news alright first up let’s see here garden buddies. This is… (0:14:31) Spencer: Yeah, that’s been consuming my time too, as far as actual console games go, it’s just (0:14:52) Kevin: This is our previously announced game, but regardless, we have a trailer for it. (0:14:59) Kevin: Let me actually take a look at it. We have it announced for October 20th. (0:15:05) Kevin: Oh boy, that’s quite an aesthetic. I don’t remember this game at all, but these are little (0:15:16) Kevin: crops and vegetables with faces… and a bat… uh… (0:15:22) Kevin: It’s really funny. (0:15:23) Spencer: Now I watched this trailer and the voices… Man, I don’t know if they’re gonna get a cease and desist from Rare, but boy oh boy do they sound like your typical Banjo-Kazooie, uh… You know, little babbles (0:15:37) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, they do they do or for people who haven’t played rare on Animal Crossing pretty close to that, too Yeah, so you don’t remember this what is this game exactly? (0:15:45) Spencer: Yeah, yeah. (0:15:53) Kevin: yeah, because I don’t remember the trailer here, but it is releasing the 20th of October I said which oh my gosh actually that’s gonna be like almost (0:16:07) Kevin: These people are listening to this podcast. It’ll be out and it will be on Steam and on switch So you can look forward to that. Let me double check (0:16:19) Spencer: Yeah, I was curious too, because I mean, the trailer that I got here was just the release date and as far as I can tell, you’re the vegetables themselves? (0:16:26) Kevin: Yeah Yep, yeah, you are it’s a unique blend of cozy gardening simulator and mental self-care that’s Okay, that’s a lot of buzzwords The art. I don’t know how I feel about the art. I kind of like it. I kind of hate it (0:16:55) Kevin: The eyes are very (0:16:56) Kevin: Very very like Toa’i baby eyes Umm But there’s a little mushroom guy riding a frog So that looks cool Uhh (0:17:15) Kevin: heartwarming story, players accompanied by Mutzi will explore the magical world creating and building their plant sanctuary. The relaxing storyline will be filled with uplifting narration as well as unexpected twists and turns. They will make lots of friends with animals and plant creatures they encounter. (0:17:37) Kevin: So yeah, okay, it sounds like a lot, but they’re really emphasizing the de-stress and cozy feeling and whatnot, uh… (0:17:45) Kevin: I’m interested to see how this looks like. (0:17:48) Kevin: It’s definitely not your average farming game, it doesn’t look like. (0:17:54) Kevin: Just seeing, uh… (0:17:56) Kevin: From the perspective of being these little crops and things. (0:17:59) Spencer: it gives me kind of like a not to bring a prayer again but like almost like a view of a pinata vibe like you’re caring for these vegetables as like creatures (0:18:00) Kevin: Um, but, whoop. Yeah, go ahead. (0:18:03) Kevin: Yep. Yeah, it seems like that. (0:18:15) Kevin: I didn’t play Viva Pinata, and I heard it was the greatest thing on Earth, and I missed out on it. (0:18:19) Spencer: I only played it a little bit. I just… yeah. (0:18:20) Kevin: Okay. Okay, well… (0:18:24) Kevin: Regardless, people can find out more! (0:18:28) Kevin: Uh, again, October 20th. Very, very soon. (0:18:31) Kevin: Especially for the people who are listening to this. (0:18:34) Kevin: Okay, next up, we have… (0:18:38) Kevin: Ikone Island News. (0:18:41) Kevin: We have the Friend Pass release. (0:18:45) Kevin: It is out now as of recording. (0:18:47) Kevin: And so, you can… (0:18:50) Kevin: Ah! Friends… I thought it was like a battle pass. No. (0:18:54) Kevin: It is multiplayer co-op with three of your friends. You can do it online. (0:19:00) Kevin: And… Oh, what? That’s so cool! (0:19:04) Kevin: If one… only one person has the full version, everyone can play indefinitely. (0:19:10) Kevin: Um, there’s like a demo that you can find out about. (0:19:15) Kevin: Play co-op for a few hours. (0:19:17) Kevin: Uh, two hours of play, it looks like. (0:19:19) Kevin: But, uh, if you have the whole game, everyone can just play. (0:19:22) Kevin: And you don’t have to buy it or four copies to have four people playing. (0:19:28) Kevin: Uh, that is very cool. (0:19:31) Spencer: Yeah, that’s always nice when they do some kind of like, as long as just one person owns something, you know, then everyone has access to it, at least via online, you know, like connecting to each other for multiplayer or something like that. (0:19:47) Kevin: Yeah, that is cool. There is a large list of patch notes. (0:19:55) Kevin: I invite people to look at the link because they are pretty in-depth with their patch notes. (0:20:02) Kevin: But the big new other big news is that this will be launching the full 1.0 version on November 9th of this year, (0:20:14) Spencer: All right around the corner. (0:20:14) Kevin: which will only be two or three. Yeah, two or three. (0:20:17) Kevin: That’s really impressive. Wow. What a feel-good announcement. (0:20:23) Kevin: Everyone can just play together and you not having to buy the game for everyone. (0:20:31) Kevin: That’s great. And so to remind people, IKONOI ISLAND. Let me see, I don’t remember. (0:20:38) Kevin: I talk so many games, I forget which ones are which. This one is… Why is there a shark man in this? (0:20:48) Kevin: Okay, so yeah, no, it’s very Minecraft-y. Gather resources, craft tools, build your base and whatnot. (0:20:59) Kevin: So basically very Minecraft survival type game on an island. The art is cute and there’s like a shark man. (0:21:06) Kevin: That seems cool. That’s exciting though. You know, Minecraft is… or the genre, whatever you want to call it, is great for multiplayer. (0:21:16) Kevin: So this is this. (0:21:17) Kevin: It really is exciting. (0:21:18) Kevin: And yeah, November 9th, that launches on Xbox, Steam, Epic Games, and PlayStation. (0:21:26) Kevin: Yeah, alright, there you go. (0:21:30) Kevin: Good job, Ikune Island. (0:21:32) Kevin: That actually might get me to play with multiple people. (0:21:36) Kevin: Uh, that’s so cool. (0:21:39) Kevin: Next up, we have news on… (0:21:44) Kevin: Oh, do the King of Bar Mee- (0:21:47) Kevin: simulators farming simulator 22 is that a weight? (0:21:51) Kevin: Yeah, okay 22. I thought they could wind up with the years, but I guess not I’m wrong, okay Okay, so it is An expansion okay. This is an expansion that will launch on November 14th They’re adding carrots. Why were carrots not available before? (0:22:10) Spencer: That, yeah, very odd. I had to reread that to make sure that was correct, because carrots are like the most basic crop, right? In just things, in general. You got carrots, you got like potatoes, and like wheat. (0:22:17) Kevin: Uh, in life? I can’t, like, yep, yeah, yeah, that’s really surprising, um, and it’s surprising because, like, looking, all the detail they put into these other machines they’re releasing and stuff like that, um, it’s okay, but, uh… (0:22:47) Kevin: There you go, carrots, um, they’re adding a few other things, what is it, parsnips and a few other crops, but, uh, yeah, I’m curious, yeah, more machines, crops, uh, oh, and there’s, (0:22:57) Spencer: And some more machines too. (0:23:04) Kevin: yeah, there’s new machines that specifically help with these crops, like carrots, oh my gosh, like, oh, this, this is intense, like, they have real intense machine names and stuff like that. (0:23:17) Kevin: But, uh, oh, redbeat, yep, there it is. (0:23:21) Kevin: Uh, anyways, that again is November 22nd. (0:23:24) Kevin: That is the premium expansion, uh, for farming simulator. (0:23:29) Kevin: 20-20, er, just 22. (0:23:32) Kevin: Okay, next up, ah, now this is a game I do know. (0:23:35) Kevin: We have Garden Galaxy, uh, for people unfamiliar. (0:23:40) Kevin: We did an episode on it. (0:23:41) Kevin: It is, uh, you’re building a little garden, (0:23:48) Kevin: everything’s kind of randomly generated, the items you get. (0:23:52) Kevin: Um, so it’s an interesting loop of trying to expand your item and trying to get your garden and get the items you want. (0:23:59) Kevin: Um, but, uh, they’re getting an update. (0:24:02) Kevin: I am pleased to see this game, uh, continue getting support because it is a fun game. (0:24:06) Kevin: I need to go back to it probably now because on October 16th, (0:24:10) Kevin: which means when people are listening to this, it will already be out, (0:24:14) Kevin: There is getting an update with all of the other videos. (0:24:17) Kevin: Autumn themed items, we got pumpkins, jack-o’-lanterns, (0:24:22) Kevin: your fall leaves, and whatnot. (0:24:25) Kevin: So yeah, I think that’s the first set of seasonal items they’ve done like that before. (0:24:32) Kevin: Oh, no, that’s not true, they did a summer update. (0:24:34) Kevin: Either way, that actually might get me back in because I’ve been meaning to check it out. (0:24:42) Kevin: I’m sure they’ve done a lot of patches. (0:24:44) Kevin: the 10 months it’s been out. (0:24:45) Spencer: So I’m looking at this. Are you on like an island or something or are you what exactly it’s like you said Just randomly generated (0:24:50) Kevin: So, you… yeah, so it starts off… you’re basically on a floating island or set… (0:25:01) Kevin: it’s a tile-based grid-type game, right? (0:25:05) Kevin: And so it’s just floating out in space. (0:25:08) Kevin: It’s basically like an island. (0:25:10) Spencer: Okay, hence galaxy. (0:25:11) Kevin: And you’re… yeah, yeah, that’s the name, right? (0:25:14) Kevin: Yeah, Garden Galaxy. (0:25:15) Kevin: And you’re just… you’re generating items to decorate your garden, but that includes… (0:25:20) Kevin: like, new piles of terrain and land to expand your area. (0:25:27) Kevin: So yeah, it is… it’s a fascinating little game because it’s… at least when I first played it, (0:25:28) Spencer: Ah, okay. (0:25:36) Kevin: it requires some patience. (0:25:39) Kevin: I remember calling it the most frustrating, cozy, or relaxing game I’ve ever played, (0:25:45) Kevin: because the loop of how things were generated was… (0:25:49) Kevin: » Thank you. (0:25:50) Kevin: » I recommend people do check it out because it’s only like 10 bucks and it is relaxing. At least when it wasn’t frustrating. (0:26:10) Kevin: Again, that is October 16th for the autumn update. Go get your spooky garden on and whatnot. Uh, oh god, oh no. (0:26:20) Kevin: No, this next news. I don’t like it. No, that’s why I don’t like it. Go ahead. (0:26:24) Spencer: Oh, I saw it. I’m excited. You want me to announce it? (0:26:31) Spencer: Alright, well, our next thing, Animal Crossing LEGO sets. (0:26:38) Spencer: This is an audio podcast, but I’m rubbing my hands together. (0:26:41) Kevin: Can hear it I can oh we have Okay, you’re already a Lego man, okay See that’s that’s a thing right cuz I’ve managed to not dive into Lego Like it’s it’s always been there. It’s tempted me But this is the one that’s probably gonna break me I’m I’m gonna be in (0:26:43) Spencer: If there’s one thing I spend more money on than video games, it is LEGO sets. (0:26:51) Spencer: Oh yeah, I’m looking at the Rivendell set right now. (0:27:11) Kevin: So to get more specific, there’s been rumors and leaks of this and whatnot. (0:27:15) Kevin: But we have official announcements that it will be releasing on March 2024. (0:27:21) Kevin: We have a handful of sets. (0:27:27) Kevin: They are Bunny’s Outdoor Activities, Cap’n’s Island Boat Tour, (0:27:31) Kevin: Nook’s Cranny and Rosie’s House, Isabelle’s House Visit, and Julian’s Birthday Party. (0:27:36) Spencer: So, my understanding is that these sets are also modular, this is what I’ve heard through the grapevine, and they are meant to be able to essentially create your own island as if you were actually making an island in Animal Crossing. (0:27:42) Kevin: Yes. That is correct. (0:27:50) Kevin: Yes, that is correct. They come, all the sets come on this flat base or whatever and yeah, (0:27:58) Kevin: you’ll just be able to swap the positions or interlock them. You know, LEGO your way through it and whatnot. (0:28:04) Kevin: Yeah, yeah. (0:28:04) Spencer: Yeah, I mean, they’re Legos, so, like, you know. (0:28:07) Spencer: Yes. (0:28:08) Spencer: But, uh… (0:28:10) Spencer: Which makes me feel like we can expect to see more than just what’s announced in the future. (0:28:15) Kevin: Yes, so one of the kickers the there’s minifigs right of course lego that’s one of the half the fun or whatever From what I saw they’re nothing too crazy. They all look pretty standard minifigs That look like Animal Crossing characters Okay, go ahead go ahead (0:28:26) Spencer: Yeah, now I have a gripe with these minifigs, I’m sorry, but the proportions look a little off in my opinion. (0:28:41) Spencer: When you’re playing Animal Crossing, the characters kind of look very like chibi-like and they’re very small, I guess. (0:28:47) Spencer: I mean, I guess they’re not small because your character also looks like it’s half the the size of a tree, but at the same time, everything is– (0:28:50) Kevin: Yeah. (0:28:56) Spencer: everything’s pretty trunk, you know, it’s just like you kind of have a big head, a little body, (0:29:01) Spencer: and they decided to make these regular minifigs size, so now this big head is on this kind of like elongated minifig body, and I don’t know, I think they should have gone with the shorter legs personally, or something, I just think they could have made it like half-sized minifigs. (0:29:11) Kevin: Yeah Okay I guess Yeah Well, I mean yeah, this is interesting because this is the merging of two very powerful vocal fan bases, right? (0:29:22) Spencer: I realized that would be an unpopular opinion. (0:29:39) Kevin: I will say though like I played since the original Animal Crossing right and they were even more chibi like back then they got a growth spurt (0:29:47) Spencer: Oh, for sure. (0:29:54) Kevin: So, I don’t know, maybe I’m just used to it because of that, but anyways, as for the sets, (0:30:01) Kevin: we have pricings for all of them. (0:30:05) Kevin: The most expensive one is Nook’s Cranny and the Rosy House, which is 75 bucks, which is forgiving for like, no sets, let’s say. (0:30:13) Spencer: Yeah, the LEGO sets are expensive now. (0:30:16) Spencer: So, 75 bucks for… (0:30:17) Kevin: Yeah. (0:30:19) Spencer: I mean you’re essentially getting two houses, right? (0:30:20) Kevin: Yes. More or less. (0:30:21) Spencer: Every other set is kind of more of one house, so… (0:30:24) Kevin: Yes. It’s still going to look small and I’m going to feel it’s way overpriced, but am I still going to get it? Probably. (0:30:32) Kevin: I want nookscranny. Oh, it’s not actually nookscranny. It’s one of the updated versions. It’s not the little shack. (0:30:37) Spencer: Yeah, it’s not the little shack, wow. (0:30:39) Kevin: Oh, that’s disappointing. Oh, well. (0:30:45) Kevin: But yeah, I’m really scared though, like, for myself because I’m worried. (0:30:54) Kevin: That this will be the gateway and I’m going to be buying my nookcranny set and I’m like, oh, you know what? There’s that Lego Green Hill Zone with Sonic. (0:31:03) Kevin: I could just put it right next to him, you know? Sonic could visit the cranny if I wanted to. (0:31:10) Spencer: You just, you know though, like in a year from now, they’re gonna have some, I’m gonna say almost $200 museum set, and it’s gonna have blathers, and it’s gonna have different sections of the museum, and little animals that you can put in there, little octopus, (0:31:23) Kevin: No! (0:31:29) Spencer: a little fish, a little frog, you know it’s in the pipeline. (0:31:33) Kevin: Why did you- I didn’t think about that. Why did you jinx me like this? (0:31:37) Kevin: No! That’s gonna be the best one! (0:31:40) Kevin: No! (0:31:41) Kevin: We don’t have Town Hall either. That one’s gonna be big. (0:31:41) Spencer: They go, “If it’s not in the pipeline, come hire me.” (0:31:44) Spencer: Ugh, yeah, town hall. (0:31:47) Kevin: Oh, it’s gonna hurt me. Okay. (0:31:50) Kevin: But, this is just the tip of the iceberg, because we’re talking Animal Crossing, right? (0:31:55) Kevin: There is very much room for the Animal Crossing blind bag minifigs or whatever. (0:32:01) Kevin: Um, or even furniture set. (0:32:03) Kevin: Animal Crossing has a lot of items, so I could easily dip into that. (0:32:07) Spencer: Yeah, everything in Animal Crossing could be a blind bag for this set. (0:32:08) Kevin: Right? And that terrorized me? (0:32:12) Spencer: It is a little, yeah. (0:32:15) Kevin: Oh, we don’t have a K.K. (0:32:39) Kevin: So yeah, stay tuned to see my demise as I finally dive into the LEGO world, and it all ends for me. (0:32:48) Kevin: All right, so again, that is 2024, still a few months before the end of that. (0:32:55) Kevin: Okay, you know what, I have a question for you. You say you’re into LEGO, (0:32:57) Kevin: I don’t know how hardcore you are, but do LEGOs run out of stock easily? (0:33:04) Spencer: Hear me sigh as I say that, um, trying to think. (0:33:11) Spencer: So in the past I used to just, you know, back, back in the day, you know, when they were still doing kind of just their, their own sets, which they still do. (0:33:20) Spencer: I know people complain that they have like too many licensed sets now, but they have plenty of unlicensed or, you know, only Lego sets. (0:33:29) Spencer: Um, you know, I kind of just got what was there. (0:33:32) Spencer: I was never particularly looking for any kind of (0:33:34) Spencer: set. There was this Mars like Mars set that they had that I really enjoyed that I did try to get like a couple of different sets from but nothing like you know going out of my way and stuff with the advent of the internet though and being able to look all this stuff up like I am now as an adult. There are definitely sets that do you know do just disappear because they’ve sold out of them or they just stop making them. I can’t imagine them doing this with the (0:33:46) Kevin: Okay. (0:33:48) Kevin: Yeah. (0:34:04) Spencer: Animal Crossing set. You know I got to imagine that this is something that they’re planning to continue to release you know new sets for and keep updating with the old sets. For instance the Mario sets I think you can still get a lot of those you know at least if you look you might have to look a little bit harder but they’re generally like available. The set that I totally missed out on and just kick myself every time I think about it is they had a Voltron set and it came with all the different all different parts and they all like you know they all transformed into Voltron together and stuff. Yes it was and I saw that and I was like one day I’ll get it and then I just waited too long and that’s what happens but. (0:34:15) Kevin: Okay. (0:34:16) Kevin: Okay. (0:34:20) Kevin: Sure. (0:34:40) Kevin: You could, in fact, form the head. (0:34:52) Kevin: Oh, I know that feeling um well, i’m just worried because Like I said, I don’t know how the inventory issues are dealt with um in lego, but They’re drawing in the animal crossing nintendo crowd, right? We look what happened with van gogh Oh, come on Look what happened with Remember when julian was a commodity or not julian. Whatever his name was the Pat with the heterochromia (0:35:21) Spencer: Oh, yeah, yeah. (0:35:23) Kevin: And when new horizons drop If anyone could make this is the inventory problem, it would be these fans. Um, but oh boy, here we go uh but maybe the well the price isn’t even the worst for all of them, but uh We’ll see. Um I just want them to bring back by onical. That’s the only lego thing I ever really got those were cool little robot dudes (0:35:48) Spencer: Hmm, interesting. I was somewhat into Bionicle. I had quite a few, but not as much as the regular sets. (0:35:58) Kevin: All right, um, two other pieces of news album and put them on here, (0:36:04) Kevin: but I do want to mention them. (0:36:06) Kevin: I hope I, I listened to the last episode, but I hope I’m not repeating anything. (0:36:10) Kevin: Um, there have been patches dropped both for Meneko’s night market and paleo pines. (0:36:16) Kevin: Uh, last two, well, the last game I covered and the one we’re covering today, (0:36:20) Kevin: um, the Meneko’s night market. (0:36:23) Kevin: I don’t know all the details, but I’m very thankful that they’ve got these patches (0:36:28) Kevin: out quickly and, uh, and they’re already available for switch and steam versions. (0:36:34) Kevin: Um, I hope Al will find the links and maybe put them in the show notes, (0:36:39) Kevin: but, uh, go check them out. (0:36:41) Kevin: I will possibly fire up Meneko’s night market again, see how much it’s improved. (0:36:45) Kevin: Um, because I very much liked that game, just hoping for few fixes and well, (0:36:50) Kevin: they roll some out, uh, paleo pines. (0:36:53) Kevin: I read the patch notes and it’s fascinating. (0:36:57) Kevin: Uh, at least one of the items is fascinating. (0:36:59) Kevin: In general, they just kind of, you know, polished up a few edges and, and did nice things. (0:37:05) Kevin: No major updates. (0:37:06) Kevin: Um, but, uh, with that said, let’s, let’s just get on into it. (0:37:13) Kevin: Uh, let’s talk about paleo pines. (0:37:14) Spencer: Yes, paleopines. (0:37:15) Kevin: Okay. (0:37:18) Kevin: So this is available on steam switch. (0:37:22) Kevin: I don’t know what else it’s available on. (0:37:23) Spencer: I think it’s available on everything. (0:37:24) Kevin: Uh, is it? (0:37:27) Kevin: Okay. (0:37:27) Kevin: Um. (0:37:28) Kevin: So, for people who don’t know, the elevator pitch is pretty simple. (0:37:33) Kevin: It’s farming, but you have dinosaurs. (0:37:35) Kevin: Um, it’s what’s on the box, and it’s what you get. (0:37:38) Kevin: Um. (0:37:39) Spencer: It’s… exactly what you get. (0:37:39) Kevin: Yup. (0:37:44) Kevin: Alright, so let’s, before we get into the nitty gritty, what are your overall thoughts? (0:37:51) Spencer: My overall thoughts and opinions, it’s good to start off with this because I’m someone that kind of complains about things even if I like them. So I enjoyed this game. I did have a thoroughly good time myself playing this game. There are plenty of things I would change about it but ultimately this is probably a game I will come back to I might even play it after we stop talking to be quite honest. (0:38:14) Kevin: Okay, I probably will see [laugh] (0:38:17) Spencer: yeah the last episode I was on (0:38:21) Spencer: I talked about parkasaurus I don’t think I’ve touched that game since we stopped talking about it yeah but this game this game was definitely enjoyable it’s got a lot of charm you know using the dinosaurs for farming is different I guess I mean I’m not as big of a farming game player has you know you guys are so maybe this is just exactly the same you just skinned as dinosaurs but it was fun (0:38:25) Kevin: Hahaha, well there you go. (0:38:39) Kevin: » Yes, right, yeah, yep. (0:38:51) Spencer: it has a collection element to it very much kind of like Pokemon or something like that you know so it scratches a lot of different itches for a lot of different people and I feel like you can get yourself lost without necessarily doing the main kind of quest so to speak yeah there are missions that you do too in this game and you know I spent plenty of time just fumbling around doing my own thing. (0:38:57) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:39:21) Spencer: You know, ultimately that’s kind of what I like in games like this, so yeah, I had a great time playing it, great, great might be a little exaggerating, so yeah, what did you think? (0:39:30) Kevin: Mm-hmm, okay All right, um So overall it’s a definite thumbs up and recommend for me This is hard for me because I love dinosaurs very much I Was a dinosaur kid growing up. I watched Jurassic Park when I was little dinosaurs were my Pokemon before Pokemon and (0:39:57) Kevin: And so, obviously I’m heavily biased toward a game that… (0:40:00) Kevin: …explores that, but as someone who is relatively well-versed in farming games, I still think it’s enjoyable. (0:40:11) Kevin: All the points you made, I agree with. (0:40:15) Kevin: So, let’s get into the… (0:40:19) Kevin: But, overall though, I would recommend this to people to try out. (0:40:23) Kevin: If you enjoy farming games, I think there’s a good chance you’ll enjoy this. (0:40:27) Kevin: And if you enjoy dinosaurs, you will probably also- (0:40:30) Kevin: enjoy this. (0:40:31) Spencer: you might even enjoy it even more than if you were just a farming game person quite honestly. (0:40:32) Kevin: I actually agree, yes, because I do think the dinosaurs are done really well. (0:40:40) Kevin: Um, but okay, let’s start into this specific. (0:40:43) Kevin: So, I have three sections here. (0:40:48) Kevin: The bad, the good, and the ugly. (0:40:50) Spencer: OK. (0:40:51) Kevin: So let’s start with the bad. What complaints do you have? (0:40:51) Spencer: Complaints. (0:40:56) Spencer: So the biggest thing– my complaints are small things that add up, right? (0:41:04) Spencer: Accessing things. (0:41:05) Spencer: For instance, if you’re on a mounted dinosaur, (0:41:09) Spencer: for whatever reason– unless I’m just horrible at this game– (0:41:12) Spencer: you cannot access or interact with things other than the dinosaur’s interaction. (0:41:18) Spencer: So let’s say you start off with the parasaur. (0:41:20) Spencer: That’s just your dinosaur that you start off with. (0:41:21) Kevin: Right? (0:41:23) Kevin: Right (0:41:23) Spencer: And each dinosaur has a skill. (0:41:27) Spencer: They can clear debris, which is what the parasaur can do. (0:41:30) Spencer: And it can sprint. Two actions. (0:41:32) Spencer: But if you’re not doing that, you can’t interact with anything else. (0:41:38) Spencer: If you want to talk to someone, you have to get off your dinosaur. (0:41:41) Spencer: If you want to access your storage, you have to get off your dinosaur. (0:41:44) Spencer: Which just blows me away. I was like, (0:41:46) Spencer: “Come on, the person’s right there. Just let me talk to them. (0:41:48) Spencer: to them. Why do I have to get off my dinosaur? (0:41:49) Kevin: Yep, yep, absolutely, um Yeah, I I want to put just a little side note, um since we’re getting into it, uh Spencer and I are dinosaurs or nerds so we will be using dinosaur names Apologies if you if you listener might not be familiar. I invite you to look them up because dinosaurs are cool (0:41:50) Spencer: So, that would be one thing I would, you know, developers, if you’re listening, patch that, please. (0:42:17) Spencer: Indeed, and then you’ll see the name and then you’ll be like, “How do I pronounce that?” (0:42:21) Spencer: And quite honestly, we probably won’t pronounce all of them right, but it’s fun and trying. (0:42:25) Kevin: yep yes okay but um but yes that’s that’s a good point um that is annoying how you can’t talk to someone uh or gather certain points gather certain materials off foraging points and whatnot while on a dinosaur uh at the very yeah no judge say that I can kind of understand the the foraging part maybe you’re high up on a t-rex but come on (0:42:44) Spencer: That’s correct, because some… Oh, sorry, go ahead. (0:42:55) Kevin: can talk to someone while mounted on a t-rex I can say hey (0:42:59) Spencer: Yeah, I don’t really understand the decision, to be quite honest. (0:43:05) Kevin: Yeah, well, there’s a few things I don’t 100% understand, like, so there’s a handful of little things. I don’t know if they all add up to me something major, but like, one of my biggest gripes is inventory stuff. You can get big numbers of items, right? Like, you can get hundreds and hundreds of pieces of wood. (0:43:28) Kevin: Well, when you want to move between your bag and your storage or whatever, you don’t have the option of saying, “Okay, take out…” (0:43:35) Kevin: …20 or 30. You can only do the entire amount or half of it. And that’s frustrating. (0:43:38) Spencer: Yes, I was gonna ask this, I wasn’t sure if I was just like, not getting- (0:43:44) Spencer: Was there a tutorial I missed? Or if this is like, you know, just, but yeah, it’s only stacks, right? (0:43:47) Kevin: nope, or at least, I missed it too then. (0:43:51) Kevin: Yeah, you can, and what’s odd is, it exists because when you sell things at the trader or whatever, (0:43:52) Spencer: Like, I was like- (0:43:57) Kevin: you can select exactly how many you want to sell. (0:44:01) Kevin: But that’s the only time. (0:44:02) Spencer: Yeah, no, but then it’s and it gets even more deep than that because it’s Inventory management from your storage to inventory is only stacks, right? So like you have 300 wood in your storage and then you click on it and it’ll put all 300 in there but in stacks of a hundred and then now you have to go back in return 200 stacks, so you only have one stack and (0:44:23) Kevin: Yup, yup, exactly. (0:44:29) Spencer: Then when you go to sell that wood, here’s what get (0:44:32) Spencer: me. You go to sell that wood, and then you can select individually. You can select like I only sell two wood, right? And they do have a button for min and max. So like I want to sell the whole stack of wood, but they don’t have a button to increment it in tens. Also, which I feel like is something like, yeah, that really, that whole thing needs a lot of work. (0:44:56) Kevin: Yeah, it is wild and again, there’s even the trading like said it’s still missing that stacks of 10 which would be nice But the fact that that’s the only place where you can do Individual counts of whatnot. It’s baffling to me Let’s see what what other little complaints can you think of? (0:45:20) Spencer: So, I don’t know if this would be a little complaint. (0:45:25) Spencer: I don’t know where this falls on your good, bad, and ugly. (0:45:25) Kevin: Hehe. (0:45:29) Spencer: I will say there were a lot of things I was finding out about the game. (0:45:34) Spencer: I didn’t get, I’ll be honest, I didn’t get like probably end game, is there an end game? (0:45:39) Spencer: I don’t really know. (0:45:41) Kevin: I think there is. I mean, there’s the main quest. You have to find where the rest of the parasaurs are. (0:45:42) Spencer: There is, right? (0:45:44) Spencer: Yeah. (0:45:45) Spencer: Yeah. (0:45:46) Spencer: Yeah, you know, like I said earlier, I kind of… (0:45:50) Spencer: just ended up doing my own thing, which is, you know, it is what it is. (0:45:52) Kevin: Yeah. (0:45:53) Kevin: Uh huh. (0:45:55) Spencer: That’s kind of how it’s designed in the game. (0:45:57) Spencer: But so there’s a lot of things that I feel like I was finding out kind of on my own without… (0:46:06) Spencer: that would have been better maybe explained, you know, like I’ll be honest. (0:46:12) Spencer: I didn’t realize that holding what was the RZ was sprint for some of those dinosaurs. (0:46:18) Spencer: I was puttin’ around that whole area, and it was taking me forever. (0:46:18) Kevin: Yep Yeah, ha ha ha ha oh no Oh No Um, oh, that’s raw. I agree with you Um, this is a complaint I have about many games because I think it’s a critical thing to be clear and explain yourself well and whatnot Um, I am struggling to think of I had a specific example, but I can’t think of it right now (0:46:23) Spencer: It would take like a half day just to get across the place. (0:46:47) Kevin: The sprinting thing there is a (0:46:48) Kevin: prompt on the bottom of the screen, but if you don’t pay it, they don’t call it out or anything. (0:46:52) Kevin: So it’s easy to miss, because there’s other prompts that are there, (0:46:56) Kevin: and the sprinting prompt is added when you’re on the right dinosaur, (0:47:00) Kevin: but it’s not there when you’re not on it, so it’s easily missable. (0:47:04) Kevin: possible. (0:47:06) Spencer: Oh, and so here’s the thing with the sprinting thing, too. (0:47:12) Spencer: If you click on, I believe it’s just R, (0:47:15) Spencer: your character will auto run in that direction. (0:47:16) Kevin: Wait, what? (0:47:17) Kevin: I didn’t know that! (0:47:19) Kevin: She- what?! (0:47:19) Spencer: Yes, there’s an auto run button. (0:47:21) Kevin: Oh my goodness. (0:47:22) Spencer: So I was clicking auto run, and I was thinking it was the sprint half the time. (0:47:22) Kevin: Oh, there you go. (0:47:24) Kevin: Oh, case in point. (0:47:32) Spencer: And I was like, this doesn’t look any faster. (0:47:35) Spencer: I guess I don’t need to hold the button. (0:47:36) Spencer: I feel like there’s a lot of things that get fed to you at either inopportune moments or just as far as information goes. (0:47:50) Spencer: You’re just kind of like, “Huh, I could have used that information like three days ago.” (0:47:54) Kevin: Yup, there was oh the So there is I remember my example. Um, there is a help option in the pause menu and it does have some tutorials in there It doesn’t really let you know that they’re there Which is a shame because a number of them are very helpful. They explain how to use your tools The one I wanted to mentioned was the soil we’ll get into it into it in a bit but essentially how to properly fertilize and till the soil and stuff like that. (0:48:29) Kevin: That information, I didn’t realize how it worked until I happened to find it in the tutorial items in the help menu. (0:48:37) Kevin: It would have been nice if that had been called out earlier. (0:48:40) Spencer: It’s funny that you mention the soil because it wasn’t until only the other day that I was, again, I was just thumbing through the profiles of the vegetables and I was like, (0:48:51) Spencer: “Huh, they really want you to crop rotate in this game, don’t they?” (0:48:53) Kevin: Yep, yep. (0:48:55) Spencer: That would have been useful to know before I planted tons of vegetables in random areas. (0:49:01) Kevin: Yep, um, absolutely. (0:49:04) Kevin: Um, so yeah, that is a complaint, like I said, I have about many games, just lack of clarity or not explaining things well. (0:49:12) Kevin: Uh, one hopefully that can get updated because that’s not impossible to fix. (0:49:17) Kevin: Just add some more prompts at certain points, so. (0:49:19) Spencer: No. (0:49:19) Spencer: Yeah, and I will give them credit, right? (0:49:20) Kevin: Fingers crossed we get those patches. (0:49:25) Spencer: Like some games you sit through tutorials and they are like, you know, some omnipotent someone or other talking at you going, “Hit A to use the ox.” (0:49:31) Kevin: Yep, yep Yep Yeah, it does it is not very handhold be not at all you Yeah, that’s One of the pros in my book that it doesn’t really put any pressure on you in almost any way (0:49:35) Spencer: You know, and then you’re like, “Okay, like I get it.” (0:49:37) Spencer: And then you have to sit there for like an hour. (0:49:39) Spencer: Right? (0:49:40) Spencer: This game really does kind of let you play the game almost right away. (0:49:58) Kevin: And I’ll get into that later when we talk about quests I think in the more (0:50:01) Kevin: detail but one final item I wanted to add in the bad list well I guess this kind of goes in the ugly I’m not the biggest fan of the art style of the game so okay well let me be more specific I like the dinosaurs the dinosaurs look great they’re they’re very cutesy and the way they’re presented in this game where people are just hanging out they’re your pals and working with them (0:50:16) Spencer: Really? (0:50:31) Kevin: and they live on your farm they’re not intimidating or scary I think that was managed really well I think that works well and I think it’s fantastic my part problem is the people right the people also have this very cutesy art style and it’s this might just be a very personal thing but it is really (0:50:48) Spencer: Okay, okay. (0:51:01) Kevin: looks like a Disney Junior show basically that’s the way I describe it in fact I watch Bluey right so I’ve seen other ads for Disney Junior shows there is one actually called Dino Ranch and it looks a lot like this yeah (0:51:07) Spencer: Yeah, I mean (0:51:18) Spencer: Yeah, the people are, I mean, it’s an art style, that’s for sure. (0:51:24) Spencer: It’s a design choice that they made. (0:51:27) Kevin: Yeah, and everything is very saccharine, like very… (0:51:31) Kevin: Happy… (0:51:33) Kevin: No one gets angry or there’s big problems or anything like that. (0:51:38) Kevin: There’s a character who says “zippity” and it just feels very kid show… (0:51:42) Kevin: Umm… (0:51:47) Spencer: Yeah, well, eh. So there’s a couple characters. One that stood out to me as Pippin. (0:51:54) Spencer: He does kind of get a little grumpy. (0:51:54) Kevin: Yeah They they’re actually in be non-binary Which I just like a thumbs up. That’s all right. No, but I just thumbs up to the Devs for throwing that in there right and I’ll have Pippin Pippin’s a little bit of a gremlin Go ahead Oh, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that that. (0:51:57) Spencer: Oh, sorry. (0:52:10) Spencer: Ah, yeah, but they get a little like, onry about things if you ask them to make like a, they make these, yeah, they make these like treats that, that’s basically how you tame the dinosaurs and they have like very specific, “Oh, it’s my family recipe, like don’t, we don’t screw with it” and then you ask them to make other treats and then they kind of get all upset about it instead of like, “Ah, fine, take your, take your

EPISODE 95: Kevin So has garnered the attention and respect of 5-time Grammy award winner Keb' Mo', singer/activist Billy Bragg and Tony Award winning playwright David Henry Hwang, and has built a loyal fan base around the world for the past 30 years. He has performed at Carnegie Hall, as well as Hollywood Bowl, Wiltern Theatre, and The Ryman in Nashville. In 2007, Kevin was proud recipient of the NYC International Fringe Festival Award (Best Music & Lyrics) for “Great Wall” – a musical loosely based on his life and times. Kevin has also served as multi-instrumentalist (keyboards, guitar, harmonica, mandolin) in the Keb' Mo' Band for the past 15 years. His songs have been recorded by India Arie (“Crush On You”), Keb' Mo' ("Talk”), Crystal Bowersox (“I Got Angels”), Ana Popovic (“Slow Dance”), Ronnie Baker Brooks (“Wham Bam Thank You Sam”) and Shemekia Copeland ("Sounds Like The Devil”).  Kevin resides in Massachusetts. He is currently completing his next album, titled "TERESA” - an interpretation and musical exploration of the songs of legendary singer Teresa Teng.  He is Americana, soul and blues in its finest blend. kevinso.com/Contact us: makingsoundpodcast.comFollow on Instagram: @makingsoundpodcastFollow on Threads: @jannkloseJoin our Facebook GroupPlease support the show with a donation, thank you for listening!

Al and Kev talk about Mineko's Night Market Also, we talk about Stardew Valley 1.6, the recently teased Lord of the Rings cottagecore game, and a number of recent release date announcements. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:42: What Have We Been Up To 00:15:56: News 00:45:50: Mineko’s Night Market 01:32:52: Outro Links Mineko’s Night Market Release Dates Mineko Plush Coral Island PS5 Critter Crops Delay Sun Down Survivors Update Orange Season Update Travellers Rest Update To Pixelia Kickstarter Stardew Valley 1.6 Sneak Peek Stardew Valley Joja Parrot Tales of the Shire Teaser Tales of the Shire Site Mineko’s Night Market Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. My name is Al And I am playing the neko’s night market as we speak Fantastic we are gonna have so much to talk about this game. I think it’s gonna be (0:00:36) Kevin: I’m Kevin. (0:00:37) Kevin: Um, excuse me, I believe that is Wormburger’s Night Market? (0:00:47) Kevin: Uh, you think the game that’s been in development for eight years and has been my most anticipated game of like two years running? [laughs] (0:01:00) Al: Funny because like yeah, so like this podcast I’ve been going for like nearly five years now, right? (0:01:04) Al: And this game had already been announced four years before the podcast started So quite a while Did neko just poop on the ground It just just sat on the ground and stood up and then it was a garden block (0:01:12) Kevin: 2015 baby that’s that’s wild like I don’t I didn’t (0:01:25) Kevin: Yeah, if that’s possible, yeah. (0:01:26) Al: I think Niko just pooped on the ground. (0:01:30) Al: To give me somewhere to plant, all right. Well let’s see what happens with that. (0:01:34) Al: We’re gonna talk about the Niko’s Night Market, because somehow we managed to play this game in the five days since it came out. (0:01:43) Al: Yeah, we’re gonna talk about it. Before that, we’ve got a bunch of news to talk about. (0:01:43) Kevin: Yeah, but I played a lot so I have things to talk about (0:01:57) Al: there’s stuff we need to talk about, there’s stuff we definitely need to talk about. (0:01:58) Kevin: Is there I don’t I don’t I don’t know Not really I like going in blind [laugh] (0:02:00) Al: Have you not looked through the news? (0:02:02) Al: Oh Kevin, right, that’s fine, let’s go in blind. (0:02:05) Al: Most of it is pretty small, pretty quick, still good, but we’ve got two really chunky bits of news at the end that we need to talk about. (0:02:11) Kevin: Wait, we haven’t talked about that one yet? (0:02:13) Al: We have not talked about that yet. (0:02:14) Kevin: I- (0:02:14) Kevin: Oh my gosh, okay, we do have things to talk about, all right. (0:02:17) Al: Yep, we have big stuff to talk about. (0:02:20) Kevin: I know- I like how you know exactly what I’m looking at. (0:02:22) Al: Well, of course, of course I know. (0:02:26) Al: So we’ve recorded the last episode, I think like the day before that news came out. (0:02:30) Al: Um, was it me and Cody? I think it was. Uh, we, we’d recorded really early that week and then they came out with our news and that was really frustrating. So anyway. (0:02:31) Kevin: was it okay yes yes I didn’t know it was it good good (0:02:39) Al: Um, uh, first of all, though, Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:02:46) Kevin: Um, okay, so in the Good good old me decided to do a whole bunch of things before Monneko dropped so you know the Pokemon DLC has been out for a minute, there’s been a lot of talk and So I finally gave in and I started playing Pokemon, but I wanted to play a good one. So I’m playing sword and shield I started a nuzlocke (0:03:22) Kevin: And it’s it’s a fun one to nuzlock through Because there’s so many a wide variety of encounters and and It’s surprisingly challenging at times. There’s there’s some heavy hitters in the game One going back to that Jen Like all all joking aside I I This is a subjective opinion, but I think it looks better (0:03:31) Al: Mmm, yes. (0:03:52) Kevin: And then scarlet violet like maybe not technically there’s probably It’s… (0:03:54) Al: I mean, I don’t think I disagree with that. I mean, I’m definitely one of the Scarlet and Violet enjoyers and defenders, but I don’t think that as a game it looks better than Sword and Shield. Definitely not. But I think personally that’s generally a problem with open world games. I don’t think that any of them look amazing. Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have some moments where you’re like, “Wow.” But those are very few (0:04:09) Kevin: Yeah yeah. (0:04:19) Kevin: Yeah. (0:04:20) Kevin: Yes. (0:04:24) Kevin: You’re- you’re ner- yep, you’re right. (0:04:24) Al: and most of the time it’s just the same rocks and grass again. I think that is just a problem with them. So yes, I agree. (0:04:29) Kevin: Yeah. (0:04:31) Kevin: That’s fair. Yeah, no, that’s- that’s- I think that’s accurate. (0:04:35) Kevin: Um, so yeah, it is an uphill battle, I think, in that sense for Scarlet Violet, but… (0:04:41) Kevin: Even stuff like just the color palettes, I think they really, really pop in, uh, Sword and Shield. (0:04:43) Al: Oh yeah, especially Balonia. Amazing, amazing town. Just gorgeous, love it. (0:04:46) Kevin: Um… (0:04:50) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, the neon mushroom town, it’s awesome, yep, yep. (0:04:58) Kevin: And also one other comment, just like, again, looking back. (0:05:02) Kevin: The gym battles are just so good in Sword and Shield, (0:05:09) Kevin: like just this whole spectacle of a stadium battle and the chanting, (0:05:11) Al: Oh, yes. Yeah, definitely. The music. (0:05:15) Kevin: which, you know, actually fits in on like Scarlet Violet. (0:05:20) Kevin: It’s so bombastic and thrilling, and again, (0:05:25) Kevin: just comparing to Scarlet Violet, like, because of the freedom, (0:05:30) Kevin: I don’t know, they just, it wasn’t as memorable maybe, but again, (0:05:35) Kevin: that’s something subjective, but point B, ultimately, (0:05:38) Kevin: Sword and Shield is still really good, really fun, (0:05:41) Kevin: and I’m enjoying going through one of those luck. (0:05:44) Kevin: Well, I was before Monetco dropped, um, aside from that, (0:05:49) Kevin: I have had a big fighting game, Inch, um, so I dusted off a game called Skullgirls! (0:05:56) Kevin: Um, are you familiar with this at all, Al? (0:05:58) Kevin: Okay, so Skullgirls was originally released in 2013-2014, (0:06:07) Kevin: and they are still developing new stuff for it. Um, not a sequel, like the same game. (0:06:14) Kevin: It’s wild, um, it was, uh, it’s no- (0:06:19) Kevin: notable in the fighting game community for a couple of reasons. (0:06:23) Kevin: One, I mean, it’s a good game, for fighting game reasons, um, (0:06:26) Kevin: but aside from that, um, it’s all hand-drawn art, so it looks really good. (0:06:32) Kevin: Um, it has like a very stylistic art deco thing going on with a lot of its environments and settings. (0:06:39) Kevin: Um, and as the name implies, Skullgirls, um, at least originally, the original eight, (0:06:46) Kevin: I believe we’re all female fighters, um, which was you know, obviously not the norm in gaming in general, right? (0:06:54) Kevin: Um, it’s an all female cast, um, and they’ve done rounds of DLCs since then. (0:07:00) Kevin: Um, I think it’s going to be up to 18 by the end of this year. (0:07:04) Kevin: Um, I think there’s two males, but the rest are all females. (0:07:10) Kevin: Um, well, I mean, there’s a robot female and an alien monster thing. (0:07:16) Kevin: Um, but so, you know, um, take that how you will. (0:07:20) Kevin: Uh, it’s, it’s dynamic. (0:07:22) Kevin: It’s fun. (0:07:22) Kevin: It’s like not even fighting game or not. (0:07:26) Kevin: It’s, it’s just very good writing comical and then vibrant. (0:07:31) Kevin: Um, so yeah, skull girls to anyone who enjoys fighting games. (0:07:34) Kevin: That’s a hearty recommendation. (0:07:36) Kevin: It’s basically out on anything and everything. (0:07:38) Kevin: Um, uh, but, uh, aside from, yeah, so those were the two things I did. (0:07:42) Kevin: And then, uh, Meneco Wednesday came and it’s been all Meneco since then. (0:07:47) Kevin: What about you? (0:07:50) Al: Yeah, well, I mean, I think basically Maneko is the only game I’ve been playing this week. (0:07:56) Al: Maneko, Maneko, Maneko. (0:07:59) Al: I did play some more Pokémon, so I think I got my… (0:08:03) Al: I can’t remember where I was when we last talked, or when I last said it on the podcast, (0:08:08) Al: but I have done… (0:08:10) Al: I’ve completed the DLC on both games. (0:08:14) Al: I decided just to do… (0:08:16) Al: So my scarlet was like basically I hadn’t done anything in it. (0:08:20) Al: So I did the DLC without having done any of the badges. (0:08:23) Al: And then I was like, I’m just going to do all the badges. (0:08:26) Al: So I just did everything on that one. (0:08:27) Al: So I’ve now completed that. (0:08:27) Kevin: Right at least it’s fast to do it unlike other Pokemon games you can just knock them out (0:08:29) Al: And then, yeah, certainly once you’ve got everything. (0:08:36) Al: And then what else did I do? (0:08:39) Al: I did the DLC on my scarlet, my violet as well. (0:08:43) Al: And I completed the decks on that. (0:08:46) Al: And there’s a couple of side quests as well in the DLC. (0:08:49) Al: I did those as well. (0:08:50) Al: And yeah, just a bunch of Pokemon stuff in there. (0:08:56) Kevin: Have you- have you not gotten a bit tired of Scarlet Violet after doing it like three four times? (0:09:03) Al: times, yeah. I mean the story, yeah, sure, right? Like, the story bit is not fun. I still enjoy playing those games. Like, I still enjoy the core loop of those games. I still enjoy collecting Pokémon, blah, blah, blah. I think I have decided that I’m not going to do the new Professor Oak challenge that I suggested. I think that’s probably going a bit far. And if I want to do a Professor Oak challenge. (0:09:30) Kevin: until the second DLC drops. (0:09:33) Al: Well, I was going to wait until that because if you’re going to do it, then do it all the way, right? (0:09:39) Al: But then I was like, actually, if I want to do it, there’s so many games I haven’t done a Professor Oak challenge of, (0:09:43) Al: just do another one. (0:09:45) Al: I’m thinking about maybe doing Legends Arceus 1, for example, which could be fun, (0:09:53) Al: because I don’t have a Legends Arceus save file just now. (0:09:56) Al: I was thinking when you were talking about Nuzlockes, maybe it would be interesting as a Nuzlock, (0:10:03) Al: because obviously you’re not using Pokemon, right? (0:10:05) Al: So they’re not going to die, but you can die in that game. (0:10:07) Al: You can get knocked out in that game. (0:10:09) Kevin: Oh. (0:10:09) Al: So doing like a no death Arceus run, that could be interesting. (0:10:10) Kevin: No. (0:10:16) Al: Yeah, that’s probably about games. (0:10:19) Al: I mean, Pokemon Go, obviously, but that’s probably about it with games. (0:10:23) Al: I have, however, been watching a couple of things. (0:10:25) Al: I’ve been watching X-Men 92 and the run-up to the new X-Men 97 coming out next year. (0:10:30) Al: And I. (0:10:30) Kevin: Alright, how’s that been? (0:10:33) Al: It’s it’s good fun. I’m surprised at how like quickly and succinctly they’re getting through X-Men story lines like Like in the first season they do like like five or six big X-Men stories Like just that’s it. Those ones are done now and you’re like, oh my word, right? Wow, that was fast Yeah Well, it’s (0:10:50) Kevin: Yeah, this was prime 90s Saturday morning cartoon stuff, so like, there’s no time for plots or build up. (0:10:58) Kevin: Go do your enemy of the week. (0:11:01) Al: That’s the thing and then there’s no (0:11:01) Kevin: You got toys to sell, man! (0:11:03) Al: There’s no filler episodes that are all action all the time So it will be interesting to see where they go because there’s still four seasons to go Just I’ve just finished the first season. So I’ve got four more to go and I’m like I feel like they’re running out of stories by now Although I do believe there is a crossover with the 90s spider-man as well that I’ll need to watch at some point Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I know but that’s my I need to watch that as well right because it’s a crossover (0:11:03) Kevin: The- (0:11:20) Kevin: There is, but that is under the spine. (0:11:31) Kevin: Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I If I assure you it does not matter Well, good luck with that because I’m sure it didn’t matter to the writers or whatever I will I will say like I (0:11:33) Al: I haven’t figured out where it lies in the timeline. (0:11:37) Al: I know it doesn’t matter. I know. I know it doesn’t matter, Kevin, but it matters to me. (0:11:56) Kevin: Was still pretty young when that X-Men first aired so I watched some of it (0:12:00) Al: Yes, in 1992, yes. (0:12:01) Kevin: but Yes, you know the year I was born I might be older than me So I didn’t watch it I Missed the boat a little on that one. I didn’t I watched it but just not like everything right but it’s still very much like many people was very iconic informative in my What I think of the X-Men right like that’s the theme the colors all the looks (0:12:05) Al: I was also quite young. (0:12:31) Kevin: It’s still my favorite beast of all time Yeah, but good stuff good stuff (0:12:40) Al: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:12:41) Al: And then I also watched for the first time Scott Pilgrim versus the World, (0:12:46) Al: the film that is, the live action films. (0:12:46) Kevin: Okay, I have not watched this tell me tell me Wait we’re talking the live-action right? Yes. Yes. Okay, cuz the animated one’s not out yet Yes, okay. Yes, that’s right. Okay Okay, I hear a lot of love for this movie thing (0:12:48) Al: I thought it was really good. (0:12:50) Al: I think it does a good job. (0:12:52) Al: Like, obviously live action. (0:12:53) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:12:55) Al: The animated one, it’s not, it’s not a, yeah, and it’s a series, I believe. (0:12:58) Al: It’s not a film. (0:13:00) Al: But so like. (0:13:02) Al: I think, I think, yeah, so I think a lot of people like it and a lot of people (0:13:10) Al: thought it was fine. (0:13:11) Al: I will say that live action is difficult to do, like, a good kind of comic bookie style film, like most, most live action comic book stuff doesn’t try and be comic bookie, right? (0:13:25) Al: But Scott Pilgrim definitely does. (0:13:29) Al: And I think they did it really well. (0:13:31) Al: I think it works like that. (0:13:32) Al: Like you, it definitely feels like a comic book film. (0:13:35) Al: It’s like, you know how Into the Spider-Verse feels like a comic book film. (0:13:40) Kevin: Yes. (0:13:40) Al: It’s not live action, but it feels comic bookie, whereas all the other ones really just feel like superhero stuff, right? (0:13:40) Kevin: Yes. (0:13:43) Kevin: Yes, yes, I know. (0:13:46) Al: It’s, it, it feels like that. (0:13:48) Al: It feels, it feels like they wanted it to feel like a comic book. (0:13:52) Al: And I think it works really well. (0:13:54) Al: I think there are a few things in the story that feel a bit odd, but that just might be me being a bit weird around it. (0:14:01) Al: I’m not sure whether it’s, because I’ve not, I’ve not read the original comic run of this, right? (0:14:07) Al: So I don’t know whether it tells it some of the bits in it. (0:14:10) Al: In a better way, or whether I’m just kind of being a bit weird with it. I don’t know. (0:14:11) Kevin: Mm-hmm Yeah, okay. All right, that’s cool Yeah, I might watch it just speak for the animated series because the animated series looks very impressive (0:14:15) Al: But I enjoyed it. It was good. (0:14:25) Al: Yes Well, that was the other thing that was the other reason why I was watching it I was like, I know I want to watch this at some point You know what why not now, you know before the animated series comes out would be a good idea (0:14:35) Kevin: Yep, yep, all right, that’s good. (0:14:43) Al: I mean bits and pieces here and there. I’m about to start the newest series of Star Trek Strange. (0:14:56) Al: There’s a lot to watch. What can I say? Have you been watching Ahsoka? Of course, as well. (0:15:01) Al: I’ve been watching Ahsoka, which I’ve been enjoying. And Loki starts this week. (0:15:07) Kevin: Oh, I i’ve got to catch up on stuff before I watch loki like I mean like the required reading. I don’t watch ant man No, I don’t think so either ant man Yes Yes, i’ve watched the original ones. I watch one division watch loki season one. So just ant man Um, but I am going to do it because yeah, I do I do too which really means yeah I just need to watch ant man, um, which uh, but i’m excited for because it looks good. Um (0:15:12) Al: I don’t think there’s a lot of required reading. (0:15:16) Al: Yeah, I’d say Ant-Man, Lokey and Ant-Man, and presumably you’ve watched WandaVision. (0:15:22) Al: Yeah. (0:15:25) Al: I suspect that’s all of it. (0:15:38) Kevin: Owen wilson’s really good in it. And so is uh, (0:15:40) Kevin: Tom loki whatever his name is it’ll it’ll stand yes tom tom loki son. Um (0:15:43) Al: Tom Hiddleston and we’ve got Kehuquan coming in as well and his character looks very fun. (0:15:54) Kevin: Yep. (0:15:54) Kevin: Alright. (0:15:55) Al: Yeah. Awesome. Well, should we talk about some news? (0:15:56) Kevin: I guess so. (0:16:00) Kevin: Hey, you wanna talk about Moneko first though? (0:16:01) Al: No, no, I do not. Let’s talk about some news. (0:16:03) Kevin: Yeah, and what’s our first news item? (0:16:07) Al: Uh, oh yeah. Oh, I hadn’t looked yet. (0:16:13) Al: I wrote all this up like four days ago. So Maneko, there’s some Maneko’s night market news. (0:16:21) Kevin: Yeah. (0:16:23) Al: So the Xbox and PlayStation versions, we’ve got dates for them now. They’re coming out on the 26th of October and the physical Switch and PS5 versions are coming the 27th of October. (0:16:36) Kevin: Uh, is it? I didn’t realize it’s already on, is it on PS5 I assume? (0:16:40) Kevin: Or wait, no, no, sorry. I’m, no, you just said that. (0:16:40) Al: No, no, so that’s the PS. Please, it’s Xbox and- (0:16:43) Al: PlayStation versions, yeah. But I think, I think, I think the PlayStation version is for PS4 and PS5, (0:16:44) Kevin: My mistake. Yes. (0:16:50) Al: but the physical version is just PS5. Well, on Switch, obviously. (0:16:54) Al: So there is a PS4 version of the game, but not physical, if that’s clear. (0:16:59) Kevin: um yeah sure it’s look by the end of october it’s going to be everywhere that’s the main but you can get it on switch or pc (0:17:08) Al: You can. You can. (0:17:10) Al: And we have it covered because you got Switch. (0:17:12) Al: I got it on PC and played it on Steam. (0:17:14) Kevin: Yup, and if that’s not enough physical for you you can get a physical manneco Well, I think you can because I’m clicking on the link and it’s not working. I don’t know why Okay, anyways, um Okay, they’re doing Okay The manneco people are doing a plush (0:17:15) Al: Oh boy. (0:17:20) Al: You can. (0:17:23) Al: Yeah, there’s a new link. (0:17:27) Al: I’ve got a new link here as far as… (0:17:29) Al: Don’t worry, it still exists. (0:17:31) Al: There you go. There’s your new link. (0:17:39) Kevin: Run of manneco. It’s a good-looking plug. It is by the it is by the (0:17:39) Al: Is that good looking plush? It’s really detailed. (0:17:43) Al: Yeah. (0:17:44) Kevin: Company called make ship which I am familiar with this is basically what they do. They do limited runs of plushies you know even They did one for Baron breakfast and I missed it I’m so sad But that’s the that’s a kicker right that it is limited. I think turn it boy had like two plushies through that but anyways So yeah make ship rise of the time recording 20 days when it comes out That’ll probably even more like two weeks left on the campaign (0:17:47) Al: Yeah, they’re doing the ooblets ones as well, I think, and stuff. (0:18:14) Kevin: So check it out if you want. It’s $30 maybe a little pricey But if you love an echo like I love an echo It’s probably worth it because you will probably never ever see any mother physical manneco birch like this again Not yet, but I will so pay day when it gets But yes and minico’s art works really well with plush I think like the the the style (0:18:40) Al: Yeah, I’m just, I’m really impressed with how detailed it is, right? Like you’ve got the eye detail, the hair detail, and the clothing detail, the ear, the backpack, it’s just, it’s all so great. (0:18:44) Kevin: Yeah, got the little mark under the eye, yeah Yeah make ship I have had make ship products before and they are quality products and yes the detail is as good as You’d hope or want or the the creators want whatever and it’s a good quality plush a decent size to not one of those tiny little things (0:19:12) Kevin: Okay, so yeah, that’s Minneko (0:19:20) Kevin: So October 20th, roughly? (0:19:22) Al: Yeah, it does actually say that on the page, you don’t have to count it. (0:19:23) Kevin: Yeah, 19th. (0:19:26) Al: If you scroll down a little bit, it shows you the date. It’s got a timeline. (0:19:29) Kevin: um okay well there you go there the look the links on the show notes click on there yeah that’s the only thing right they take forever with these limited run things but understandably so yeah oh yeah you’re oh gosh no no no that’s too close 2024 is a year away no I know I went into lone the home depot the other day and there was all the christmas decor (0:19:30) Al: “Production starts 20th of October. Shipman estimated January 13th.” (0:19:38) Al: That’s not too bad. That’s not too bad. November, December, that’s three months. (0:19:48) Al: Christmas is less than 100 days. (0:19:59) Kevin: before october that’s the norm what what else is you know what else is october (0:20:06) Al: We’ve got, we’ve got Coral Island have announced their PS5 version is coming on the 9th of October. (0:20:14) Al: I will say, you know I love a conspiracy around dates. This is a suspicious date. (0:20:20) Al: This is suspiciously close because the next update for Coral Island is the 1.0 update. (0:20:27) Al: Just saying. Now we don’t know when that’s coming, but all I’m saying is they haven’t said the PS5 (0:20:37) Kevin: once you switch there’s no going back or wait oh they mean for version well either way that still sounds very uh and they have the wean (0:20:52) Kevin: There’s the art right there. It has the merfolk in it. It’s all that looks like a 1.0 or Like a game case cover Is it I don’t know I’m (0:20:59) Al: I mean, I think that’s the same artist they’ve been using for ages, but yeah, yeah, pretty sure I’ve had pretty sure I had that wallpaper on my phone for six months. (0:21:09) Al: Yeah, so we’ll see. We’ll see whether I’m right or wrong. It might be too soon after the most recent update, but they also could have been working on both of them at the same time. We’ll find out in like a week, because that’s like a week away. (0:21:27) Al: Next we have Crater crops have been delayed to the end of the day. (0:21:29) Al: We have so many more to delay. Keep coming with your delays please. (0:21:35) Al: There’s too many games. We still have like 30 games listed that’s coming out this year. Go and delay them please. (0:21:46) Al: Would you mean no? Man alive, Kevin. (0:21:49) Al: That’s all right. It’s all right. You’ve got two weeks till you need to do the Paleo Pines episode. (0:21:49) Kevin: I want, I just want Maneko, nothing else, and I’ll leave you alone, games. (0:21:57) Al: Sundown Survivors, they’ve got their 1.4 update, which they have named “The Final Boss”. (0:22:05) Al: And I think that the update includes “The Final Boss” of the storyline. Just a thought there. (0:22:10) Kevin: What that’s wild (0:22:16) Al: It’s like, what do they call it? Bullet hell? It’s a roguelike type game. (0:22:24) Al: I’m not playing this game. I don’t know. There’s some stuff. There’s some farming, (0:22:25) Kevin: But you have Pokemon. (0:22:31) Al: right? I felt like I needed to include it, but this is… (0:22:34) Al: It’s like three quid as well. It’s very cheap. (0:22:48) Al: Okay, I don’t know what that means. (0:22:52) Al: Or was that shoot him up? Right, got you. Orange season also have an update out. The festival’s season, that is out now, (0:23:01) Al: and it adds a tomato war, the summer festival and the chicken race. (0:23:06) Kevin: These are all good, good words. I like, especially “tomato war.” (0:23:08) Al: Yeah, so it looks like it’s a festival where you’re like trying to hit each other with tomatoes. (0:23:11) Kevin: What does that mean? Oh, oh, you thought- oh. (0:23:18) Al: During the event, you and three other competitors will throw tomatoes at each other, earning points for hits and losing points for getting hit. The one with the highest score when the time is over wins. Don’t worry, all the tomatoes used weren’t apt for consumption anyway. Like it matters, it’s a game. (0:23:34) Al: Oh, there’s a swimming… Oh, wait, swimming? That is the Summer Festival. They just called it different things. They called it Summer Festival at the top and then they called it swimming festival. (0:23:34) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:23:48) Al: Let’s use swim and then there’s the chicken race, which I feel like that’s probably self-explanatory as well. (0:23:50) Kevin: just it looks good though (0:23:54) Al: Also, is that a dino chicken? Look at the colors on that chicken. (0:24:02) Kevin: I don’t… I think it’s the green-ish chicken. I don’t know. (0:24:07) Kevin: Um, there’s a whole bunch of other… (0:24:09) Al: Yes, they have the key one, I think, being that they’ve added control support, so this is good. (0:24:14) Al: Yes, yes, I do. As someone with a Steam Deck, I very much like controller support on Steam Games. (0:24:21) Al: Next, we have another update. Travelers Rest have their drinks and staff update. So… (0:24:31) Kevin: Those sound important to a game where you’re running a tabber. (0:24:35) Al: Yes. Yeah, so customers can order drinks. (0:24:39) Al: You can serve them drinks, and then there’s also… you can employ employees. (0:24:46) Al: They also added seasons to the game. Like, I feel like what was in this game before now, right? (0:24:52) Kevin: You can hire a bouncer. (0:24:53) Kevin: I’m wondering! (0:24:54) Al: They’ve added the guest room system as well. Like, there’s a lot in this update. (0:24:56) Kevin: New beverage aging system was that… (0:25:00) Kevin: There- ooh. (0:25:02) Kevin: That you’d expect in a tavern. (0:25:07) Kevin: A similar game. (0:25:07) Al: To be fair, to be fair, isn’t it? (0:25:09) Al: access. So it’s 0.6.1 update. Right, next we have two Pixellia which we’ve mentioned before but they are now in Kickstarter. Now what I want to do is I want Kevin to go and watch the entirety of this video before we talk about this. (0:25:14) Kevin: It’s a fun idea, just a little more time in the oven and it looks like- (0:25:29) Al: So I will probably cut this out listeners but I want Kevin to go and listen and then tell us what his thoughts. (0:25:29) Kevin: Alright. Alright, here we go. (0:25:32) Kevin: Are you sh- (0:25:34) Kevin: Alright, you don’t want- I can do it live as I’m watching. (0:25:38) Kevin: Alright. (0:25:39) Al: I mean you can do it live if you want but you don’t need to. (0:25:40) Kevin: Alright, based on my true story, is that what it just said? (0:25:45) Kevin: Yup, on my true story. (0:25:48) Kevin: I can live my life how I see fit, okay. (0:25:50) Kevin: Pixelian is a whole awful word. (0:25:53) Kevin: Is this just Pixel Sims? (0:25:53) Al: I know, right? (0:25:58) Al: I mean, I don’t know, I don’t think it’s Sims. (0:26:01) Al: It feels more like Pixel’s Second Life. (0:26:05) Kevin: or that short yeah oh yeah I’ll look at there’s a fashion runway yeah there’s a lot going on here well you can really do anything you can be a band basketball farmer okay you can you can decorate your space yeah okay this is just Sick in life pixel version. (0:26:10) Al: Because like, you are playing, because you’ve got one character that you’re playing. And it’s like, there’s so much going on. (0:26:20) Al: This is the thing, it just keeps going. (0:26:34) Kevin: Um (0:26:35) Kevin: Let’s embrace the thrill what you can rob banks And a hack I saw a binary oh my gosh grand theft auto actual street traffic violations Of course build bonds, what could that mean? (0:26:40) Al: Uh-huh, you can rob banks (0:26:49) Al: Yeah, you know, and then. (0:26:55) Kevin: You can’t go to jail. Yeah, i’m sure there’s I hope that jail system’s innovative Or immersive (0:27:02) Al: Yeah, I don’t know. I wonder if you can break out of it or not. (0:27:05) Al: What isn’t there? What isn’t there in this game? Like when I first saw this, I just thought it would be like another like life sim, standard life sim, but there’s an insane amount in this. (0:27:06) Kevin: Oh, you can you absolutely can oh, well, there’s a nightclub. Can you do crimes at the (0:27:20) Kevin: I mean, it is a life sim, but it’s a lot of life. (0:27:22) Al: Yeah, you can be a boxer. (0:27:24) Kevin: They really, this really is everything. (0:27:28) Kevin: Yup. (0:27:29) Kevin: Fishing, oh, there’s our cottage core. (0:27:31) Al: There’s our farming. (0:27:31) Kevin: Yeah, but who’s gonna, who wants to do that when you can rob banks? (0:27:36) Kevin: What is that? (0:27:37) Kevin: Is that the UN? (0:27:38) Kevin: Look, they have the bank robber right on the cover art. (0:27:40) Al: I think so. (0:27:42) Al: This is absolutely wild. (0:27:44) Kevin: That’s, they know that’s the good one. (0:27:48) Kevin: All right, there you go. (0:27:50) Kevin: They can’t do anything. (0:27:51) Kevin: It is. (0:27:54) Kevin: Wow, and boy, they’re so- (0:28:00) Al: Yeah, it’s not a huge goal. But yeah, still, I mean, you’ve seen ones with small goals not get hit. (0:28:06) Al: So, yeah, it’s going all right. Well, yeah, this is 2Pixellia. 2Pixellia is a pixel art life simulator game set in the charming country of Pixellia. Your journey begins with a life-changing decision to start a new life from scratch, bleh. And as you step off the bus, your choices will determine what that life will become. I wonder how much of that is like actual choice. I wonder if there’s things that you can’t actually do. (0:28:11) Kevin: They really do have politics. (0:28:30) Al: Like, do they build in, like, privilege and stuff like that? (0:28:36) Al: Is it easier for certain people to do certain things? (0:28:36) Kevin: Oh Oh, that would I would applaud them so hard if they did oh my gosh Idol I would would it be fun playing the game. I don’t know but reading it and seeing it happen and the Twitter Tweets that would come out of that. Oh my gosh, that would be the best (0:28:47) Al: I don’t know if that would be fun or not, that’s my only question. (0:28:54) Al: Yeah, it would be great as an art piece, certainly, right? (0:29:06) Kevin: Oh my gosh Okay Yeah, yeah just like the South Park difficulty slider Oh My gosh, okay. Look, you know what? They don’t even have to put gameplay in it But you like just lean into it like you can do anything (0:29:07) Al: But yeah, would that make it a fun game? (0:29:09) Al: I don’t know. (0:29:15) Al: I’m probably going to cut this bit, but like, you know, hard. (0:29:17) Al: More does your black, right? (0:29:18) Al: Yeah. (0:29:35) Kevin: Right in there. They’re added. That’s what they’re saying (0:29:36) Kevin: in their campaign. They’re advertising right. You can do anything and you can have like you could be a boxer You can be a bank robber. You can be a farmer. You can have privilege as a person of color You can do anything Oh my god, I mean there’s politics so the anarchy might Anarchism whatever you want to call it might be in the cards (0:30:06) Kevin: Dismantle the establishment Um, wow, that’s really uh, we’re very big and ambitious. That’s the word ambitious. Um And it looks the trailer looks like a game and with that small of a goal i’m assuming they’re Basically done It’s more game than not (0:30:23) Al: Yeah, so it does say that they’re expecting the final version to be out in May next year, (0:30:31) Al: I believe with the alpha coming out in December. So, I mean, that sounds to me like they, yeah, (0:30:38) Al: they have the features, right? They have the game and the alpha and beta will actually be an alpha and a beta, which is like actually testing the stuff that you’ve done rather than just going, “Hey, here’s a game without the stuff!” Right? You know, it’s like… (0:30:48) Kevin: Yep, does it work cough travelers rest cough No, I know (0:30:53) Al: “Here’s a game that has some stuff!” (0:30:56) Al: Which is… Well, I mean, that’s early on. They’re not calling it an alpha or beta. (0:31:00) Al: I just… I find it really annoying. Anyway, we don’t need to get into this again. (0:31:03) Al: What have I written in it? Yeah. It’s going to be interesting. Interesting to see. (0:31:07) Kevin: Yes, it’s big while yeah, that’s that’s yeah, you can really do anything sailing still an awful name So the there are clouds in the sky the ocean is wet Go ahead go ahead (0:31:10) Al: So, we’re going to talk about Stardew Valley. Let me start off. Let me start this off. (0:31:20) Al: Let me start this off! (0:31:24) Al: Kevin! (0:31:24) Al: So, Concern Date, like just after we recorded the last episode, posted this image on Twitter of, (0:31:33) Al: so have you ever done any Ginger Island stuff in Stardew? That was in the most recent update. (0:31:39) Al: I haven’t either, but I know that on Ginger Island, there’s a bunch of like parrots that you can use to unlock a bunch of stuff. And then, so this is an image of a parrot that is like (0:31:53) Al: JoJo branding, JoJo? JoJo? Is it JoJo? JoJo, sorry, JoJo, the JoJo branding on it. And so I’m like, (0:31:56) Kevin: Jojo, not Jojo. (0:32:01) Al: oh, interesting. Is this like another like JoJo based thing? How does this work? It’s going to be interesting to see what this is, presumably it’s on Ginger Island, or it’s in a new place that we don’t know about, something like that. And then, Concern Date just like posts a list of the features coming up in the next update. (0:32:23) Al: And you’re like, “Oh, okay.” Which includes one of the bullet points is Georgia alternatives to some of the endgame quests. (0:32:32) Al: So what I’m guessing is if you go the Georgia route for the community center, when you go to Ginger Island, all the parrots are Georgia parrots. (0:32:39) Kevin: Yup. (0:32:40) Kevin: Yup. (0:32:44) Kevin: Aw, sick. (0:32:46) Kevin: You’re gonna… (0:32:47) Kevin: Deforest that island and put on a Joja Mart there. (0:32:51) Al: I mean, I actually, I mean, I really enjoy doing the Georgia way of doing things, purely because it’s like, I like being able to just like, be a filthy capitalist, right? And just buy everything, right? Like, I’m just going to make so much money and just buy everything I need, right? Like, that’s fun to do. I obviously, I’ve only done it once, but it was fun to do it when I did it. Like, obviously, I enjoy doing the other way. (0:33:17) Kevin: - Yeah. (0:33:21) Al: But, you know, there’s a lot of my words, right? (0:33:26) Al: Okay, so let me just, let me just, well, let’s just go through this list and see if we have anything to say about them. How does that go? Because this is a lot of stuff coming in the new update. And I feel like, yeah, can we talk about this? Can we talk about this? Because, like, when Concern Date initially announced the 1.6 update, let me actually find the tweet. Because I’m sure and I can find it because he doesn’t tweet very much. (0:33:28) Kevin: Okay. (0:33:33) Kevin: Shock or… (0:33:35) Kevin: Cornsturn Day has a big update. laughs (0:33:49) Kevin: It’s also really short, like two sentences. (0:33:53) Kevin: Update coming, no release date. (0:33:54) Al: Okay, so what he said in his first tweet about 1.6 which was “April of this year” okay? (0:34:06) Al: Five months ago he said “There is going to be a StarJ 1.6 update. (0:34:10) Al: It’s mostly changes for modders, which will make it easier and more powerful to mod, but there is also new game content, albeit much less than 1.5.” (0:34:22) Kevin: This- Look, it is much less for a concerned ape by his scape metrics. (0:34:22) Al: Now look at this list. (0:34:24) Al: We have one new major festival, and two mini festivals. (0:34:36) Kevin: Wow, mini, okay! (0:34:37) Al: Right, so that’s just three festivals, right? (0:34:42) Al: Let’s not list it. (0:34:43) Al: You just added three new festivals in this update. (0:34:45) Al: He has added new late game content which expands on each of the skill areas. (0:34:50) Kevin: There’s a lot of skills in this game, so that’s the… (0:34:51) Al: There’s a lot of skills in this game. (0:34:54) Al: New items and crafting recipes. Sure, fine. We don’t know much about that. One of them looks to be a drink. One of them looks to be another warp totem. One is either golf clubs or a bag of worms. (0:35:04) Al: I don’t know. I can’t tell. Oh, could be. Oh, interesting. Is that… I wonder if that would… (0:35:06) Kevin: Quiver arrow arrow quiver Weapon new weapon I could see that (0:35:14) Al: Well, you can… There is no bow and arrow, isn’t there? There’s just… There’s the… (0:35:18) Al: The… What’s it called? The little… The little… The little kind of… What’s Bart Simpson’s thing? (0:35:19) Kevin: And this last I checked, slingshot. (0:35:23) Al: you know the like slingshot. (0:35:24) Al: Interesting arrow. I wonder how much of this is come from like stuff he’s adding into haunted chocolate here and going actually I want to add that into Stardew Valley. (0:35:33) Kevin: Other way around he’s it just adding haunted chocolates here in the Stardew I made the joke on the slack. It’s to start a 2.0 actually (0:35:34) Al: I mean I actually wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up adding if haunted chocolate here was a DLC yes and then we’ve got like I mean honestly I would not be surprised if haunted chocolate here ends up being DLC for Stardew Valley like we’ll all buy it and we’ll all love it. (0:35:54) Al: A hundred plus new lines of dialogue. (0:35:55) Kevin: Yep. (0:35:55) Kevin: That’s a lot of dialogue. (0:35:58) Al: Georgia alternatives to some of the end game quests. (0:36:01) Al: That’s what we’ve already talked about. (0:36:03) Al: Winter outfits for the villain. (0:36:05) Al: Winter outfits for the villagers. (0:36:07) Al: That’s all of the villagers are getting winter outfits. (0:36:09) Al: Now, one could say they should have already been there. (0:36:12) Al: That’s fair enough. (0:36:13) Al: But like that’s not a small thing to add, right? (0:36:17) Kevin: Sure, yes, right. (0:36:17) Al: Unique clothes for every single villager in the game. (0:36:21) Al: New type of reward for completing billboard accrues. (0:36:24) Al: Adding in support for 8 player multiplayer on PC. (0:36:29) Kevin: Oh nothing nothing big there. It’s just a player multiplayer They only on PC to be clear What is left to fall it’s a new farm that specializes in chocolate actually (0:36:30) Al: Just doubling the number of people that can play the game at once. (0:36:36) Al: A new farm! Another new farm! (0:36:42) Al: I don’t… (0:36:51) Al: I just, like, you could say this was small. (0:36:54) Al: If you want, I think you’re talking nonsense, right? (0:36:57) Kevin: I genuinely believe Concerned Ape thinks this is small. (0:36:58) Al: Like… (0:36:58) Al: Oh, I’m sure he does! (0:37:04) Al: I think he’s talking nonsense though. (0:37:06) Al: Like, this is not a small update. (0:37:08) Al: Yeah. (0:37:08) Kevin: And of course, he has the new secrets and more at the end, meaning there’s who knows what else. (0:37:14) Al: Yep. (0:37:16) Al: Do you know, I think he keeps doing this because it just keeps getting people back into the game because now I want to play stardom. (0:37:17) Kevin: It’s a blank check. (0:37:24) Al: So yeah, there’s a lot of stardom stuff coming. He says there’s no date for 1.6 yet and I believe him. (0:37:29) Kevin: Maybe. I mean, there’s winter outfits for you to celebrate. (0:37:39) Al: Well that’s exactly what’s going to happen right? Well for PC anyway, it’ll take a while for consoles but yeah, that’s going to be like “oh yeah, game’s out now”. (0:37:42) Kevin: Yeah, it’ll just look knowing him. It’s just he’s gonna have a tweet. So it’s out. That’s it Yeah (0:37:50) Al: But yeah, that’s going to be like, “Oh yeah, game’s out now.” (0:37:53) Al: You’re like, “Sorry, what?” (0:37:54) Al: There’ll be somebody who will load up Steam the moment it gets updated, (0:38:01) Al: and Concerned Date won’t have tweeted about it yet. (0:38:03) Al: Someone will be like, “Oh, he’s updated the game,” and then Concerned Date will announce it by retweeting that person’s tweet. It’s like, “Oh man, you don’t have to keep giving us this stuff for free right like I know I know we made a lot of money with stargy (0:38:04) Kevin: Oh, oh, oh, absolutely. (0:38:25) Al: right I know i’m sure he is but I mean you know dude’s working dude’s got to get paid like i’m just i’m sure he is (0:38:25) Kevin: I think he still is. (0:38:36) Kevin: I’m I’m not concerned about that. I’m sure he’s making good money Like you said like you said this every time he does this the new one point whatever number That’s that’s that’s sales. That’s absolutely sales Just you watch to just just you way you will eat (0:38:51) Al: I think I already own the game on everything. I don’t think I can buy it again. (0:38:55) Al: I just can’t decide what to play the game on again. Like, do I just continue on Switch? (0:39:03) Al: Do I play it on Steam Deck? Because the update’s probably going to come to Steam first. (0:39:09) Kevin: I don’t know. Well, I mean, yeah, it’s kind of just the first I don’t know. (0:39:09) Al: How good’s the controller I support on Steam? (0:39:19) Al: It was fine. (0:39:23) Kevin: I would like to see when (0:39:27) Al: Crazy. I’m presuming the new farm is to do with that, right? Like instead of four corners, it’s in eight corners. (0:39:33) Al: It does have full controller support on Steam. He did also say in his Steam update, (0:39:44) Al: which is different from the Tweet, he says, “I have no release date for it yet, but it will release it as soon as it’s ready. The content is pretty close to being finished, but then there will (0:39:59) Kevin: Yeah, because he’s on everything now, that tail end of development is a bit, it’s a, it’s a- (0:40:09) Al: Maybe I need to start soon so that I can actually get done with the 1.5 stuff. (0:40:13) Kevin: There you go, yeah, there you go. (0:40:16) Kevin: Look, okay, you’re debating where, here’s what you do. (0:40:18) Kevin: You have one on Switch, one on Steam Deck, (0:40:21) Kevin: one of them is the Jojo Route, one is not. (0:40:23) Kevin: There you go, problem solved. (0:40:28) Kevin: You know, look at that parrot, (0:40:31) Kevin: it’s on a stand with the J on it. (0:40:34) Kevin: You won’t get that if you don’t do Jojo Route. (0:40:41) Kevin: It’s a self-concerned game, not me! (0:40:45) Al: Also, we’ll see whether 1.7 happens or not. (0:40:48) Kevin: Oh, it… it… like… I… (0:40:49) Al: He’s only mentioned 1.7 once and that was in answer to a question as to whether there would be a 1.7 and he said, “Who knows?” (0:40:59) Kevin: I made- again I made the joke on Slack but this is almost as serious as it is a joke. (0:41:05) Kevin: It will outlive a lot of things. (0:41:08) Kevin: These Stardew updates. (0:41:09) Al: I feel like he said 1.5 was the last one, so he kind of already has failed at stopping. (0:41:11) Kevin: This man cannot stop. He’s just one of those people. (0:41:20) Al: Anyway, right, the other big news that we’ve got to talk about. (0:41:24) Al: Oh, so, Tales of the Shire. (0:41:24) Kevin: Something else that won’t stop, Lord of the Rings! (0:41:31) Al: Now, for some reason, and I think we all know the reason, the answer to that, the reason is money, right? (0:41:36) Kevin: money. (0:41:39) Al: But for some money-related reason, Lord of the Rings is making a cottagecore game based in the Shire. (0:41:49) Al: And that’s how you get the best of your own. (0:41:49) Al: I’m not. (0:41:50) Al: We know at this point. What I will say, what I will say is interesting. Weta Workshop are, (0:41:57) Al: it says to, it’s, what’s the other company? Sorry, I’m just trying to look at this again, (0:42:03) Al: because it, so Private Division, I don’t know who they are, but I know that Weta Workshop made physical props for the films. (0:42:17) Kevin: If you that trailer looks like it was filled not the set like I mean it’s a very short trailer just shows the book basically but like it you can see from that one shot like there’s a lot of love for Lord of the Rings here I am very confident that this will be a very good and Lord of the Rings. (0:42:20) Al: Yeah. (0:42:39) Kevin: Well actually actually I’m thinking about this now it’s all in the shire right like there’s a lot of important. (0:42:45) Al: Yes. (0:42:46) Al: Yes. (0:42:47) Kevin: The Lord of the Rings stuff not in the shire and how much of that is going to leak into here can you romance or on. (0:42:51) Al: Well, I’m presuming some people are coming to visit, right? (0:42:56) Al: No. (0:42:58) Kevin: I. (0:43:01) Al: So, games, the private division have worked on or with Hades. (0:43:12) Al: They worked with Supergiant Games on Hades. (0:43:13) Kevin: Oh. Oh boy. (0:43:16) Al: Ollie Ollie World. (0:43:17) Al: Skateboarding game. It’s very good. (0:43:22) Kevin: Okay, oh That’s a that’s a good one Good heavens these this is the good resume (0:43:24) Al: The Outer Worlds. (0:43:25) Al: Kerbal Space Program Enhanced Edition. (0:43:31) Al: And they’re making Tales of the Shire with Weta Workshop. (0:43:38) Al: Well, the interesting thing is, the point is, Weta Workshop have done Lord of the Rings stuff. (0:43:44) Al: Like they are, they did physically. (0:43:45) Al: This is supposed weird, they made physical, they’re not a game developer. (0:43:50) Al: They are so, so, so there we go. (0:43:51) Kevin: No, but they’re Lord of the Rings people. (0:43:54) Kevin: That’s what private division is for. (0:43:56) Kevin: They’re Lord of the… Yeah. (0:43:58) Kevin: Yeah, to be clear… (0:43:58) Al: Well, so it looks like Private Division are a publisher, not a developer. (0:44:01) Kevin: Oh, well, well, look. (0:44:03) Al: That’s fine. (0:44:04) Al: So they’re not, they are, that is correct. (0:44:05) Kevin: Weta Workshop is from New Zealand, I believe, if I’m not mistaken. (0:44:09) Kevin: Okay, well, New Zealand, I… (0:44:12) Kevin: I say somewhat jokingly, somewhat seriously. (0:44:15) Kevin: There is an appreciable amount of their GDP That is from Lord of the Rings! (0:44:21) Kevin: I am confident this will get the love and attention it deserves. (0:44:21) Al: I’m just, I am just fascinating. (0:44:26) Kevin: And it’s a lot of the rings, man. (0:44:35) Kevin: Well… (0:44:36) Al: Look, this is going to be dangerous, right? Because I love Lord of the Rings and I love Kochiko Games. I’m really worried about this. (0:44:37) Kevin: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. (0:44:44) Kevin: I think the expression of “I just want to be a hobbit” in the last video is… (0:44:51) Kevin: A little shire is a very common sentiment among people in general. (0:45:04) Al: 2024 to PC and console. I don’t think they’ve said (0:45:12) Kevin: I like how we’re excited, we have no idea what it’s gonna be like, like, no! (0:45:14) Al: It doesn’t matter, we know, we know what, like I, I trust that this will be good. (0:45:17) Kevin: Oh, I do too? No, I fully agree, I just, I just think it’s funny, like, that’s how confident we are in this project. (0:45:25) Al: Yeah. Yeah. (0:45:28) Kevin: That we don’t need any details, we’re gonna get it, and it’s gonna be good, and… (0:45:28) Al: I mean, that trailer looked good. (0:45:33) Kevin: You alright? There you go. (0:45:36) Al: So, yeah. (0:45:37) Al: Hopefully, we’ll find out soon. (0:45:42) Al: I sincerely hope so. (0:45:43) Kevin: can you have second breakfast argue right right okay okay yes yes all right (0:45:48) Al: Oh, shall we talk about Meneko’s Nightmark? (0:45:59) Al: I realised I hadn’t actually written down what things were going to talk about, so I’m just like frantically thinking up things. (0:46:06) Kevin: Well, as always, let’s start with the context of where we’re coming from. (0:46:13) Kevin: As you said earlier, you’re playing on Steam Deck, I’m playing on Switch, I’m interested to hear the comparison there. (0:46:21) Kevin: What are your overall thoughts, opinions? (0:46:25) Al: Yes, I like this game. I have some comments on things I would improve. (0:46:37) Kevin: There are definitely issues… small, like… (0:46:39) Al: Well, small in so much as like, it depends how you define a small. So one of the things I have noticed is that every loading screen is very long. (0:46:53) Kevin: Okay, I okay. Are we just gonna get into this like the bad because like All right. All right. Okay. I was yes loading This is probably the number one big issue loading times are Atrocious like I thought I was wondering if it was just a switch port, but okay, so it’s not okay Okay, I want to My very first thought about this game when I played it (0:46:55) Al: Let’s just go for it. Let’s get the bad out of the way so we can talk about the good, right? Let’s let’s go for it. (0:47:02) Al: Yeah. Yeah. (0:47:09) Al: It is not. It is the same on Steam Deck. (0:47:23) Kevin: So when you started you get the loading screen and it’s like mineko running in the corner but there’s no music or anything and I Genuinely thought my game had frozen as I soon as I’d started cuz the necker stopped moving [laughing] (0:47:28) Al: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there’s something weird in terms of like, there, (0:47:44) Al: cause yeah, there’s some freezes and stuff as well, which sometimes can be a bit stressful. (0:47:46) Kevin: Yep. (0:47:47) Al: We are like, Oh no, have I lost my day? No, I haven’t. I have not lost any data. Um, (0:47:48) Kevin: Ee-eesh. (0:47:49) Kevin: Yeah. (0:47:55) Al: That’s not true, there was one, what happened? (0:47:58) Al: I can’t remember, there was one case where I had to restart and I lost the day, (0:48:01) Al: and I can’t remember what that was. Did I write it in Slack? (0:48:04) Al: Oh yes, no, I remember, I remember, I remember, there’s a button on the controller remapping where you can click it and it deletes all of your mapping so you can’t do anything with the game. (0:48:04) Kevin: I don’t… I mean, yeah… (0:48:08) Kevin: See, okay, my… oh, okay, so… (0:48:11) Kevin: Yeah. (0:48:15) Kevin: Yes. (0:48:19) Al: So if you click that button, which annoyingly the button is labeled default, so I can– (0:48:21) Kevin: Oh my god, are you see… (0:48:28) Al: I kind of thought that would set it to the default, right? (0:48:30) Al: Because I’d changed a few things and I was like, “All right, well, let me reset it to the default.” (0:48:34) Al: But the default is nothing. (0:48:34) Kevin: Ohhh… (0:48:36) Al: But the problem is then, I have no controls. Nothing worked. (0:48:36) Kevin: Ohhh yeah! (0:48:40) Al: So thankfully, it didn’t autosave, right? (0:48:42) Kevin: Yes, witches! (0:

For more info on what is discussed in this epsiode, head to MarketPowerMethod.com Allen: Boom, welcome to another edition of the Options Genius Podcast! Today, as promised, in the last episode, we have an interview, an interview with a fellow named Kevin. And Kevin is one of our beta testers in the Market Power Program, Kevin has done an amazing 266% ROI, since he's joined the program earlier in 2003. So that's not even a whole year worth the results. And that is after fees. So after he took out his commission's after he took out his fees, that's how much money he put in his pocket. Or basically, he left in the account. I don't know what he did with it. But yeah, that's what he kept. All right. That is amazing. I wanted to share this with you, I wanted to get this to you. Because these type of results are uncommon. I think that's an understatement. You know, when you have most people trying to make seven 8% A year from the stock market, even though you know, the market, banks, banks are paying what 4 or 5%. Right now, that's wonderful, that's great. Stock market should be paying more, but nobody out there is getting 266%. So shake cheese, but we are doing it with the market power program, I wanted to share this because I want you to be excited, I want you to be happy for Kevin, I want you to know this type of stuff is available, it's doable, if you have success with trading. So that's like the goal. I mean, the goal shouldn't be 266%. But the goal should be that you have enough money coming in to pay for all your expenses that you could do that from your trading. So you have basically your financial independence, right? And then after that you keep adding more and more money to the accounts or to your savings account or whatever, so that the financial worries that you have in your life melt away and you don't have any financial work. Because the thing is like, hey, oh, I got a speeding ticket. Okay? Well, if you can write a check, to make your problem go away, you don't have a problem. And that's what I really want. That's the type of life I want to have for you. Okay, so the type of problem where he's like, Okay, if I can just write a check and make this problem go away, I don't have a problem, I have a money issue. And the money issue, we want to make it go away through trading, market power is going to be one of those ways this program is coming. It's exciting. It's amazing. I can't speak enough about it. I mean, it's just unbelievable. I haven't I lost sleep. When we first came up with this seriously, I lost sleep for days and days and days. And I just can't believe it. And even now, it's still unbelievable. 54 trades in a row that I have made with this program. I think Kevin, the one that you're going to see in the interview, I think he had one trade that went bad, and he had to adjust it. And so it still worked out. And it's phenomenal. It's amazing. And he's not the only one, I'm not the only one, we have 35 other people that are trading this, in our beta testing program. They're all doing phenomenal. We have case studies, we have screenshots, we have interviews, we have, you know, the emails from them, thanking us and saying how amazing it is. So it's just a matter of time before we can open it up for others join. And unfortunately, you know, we can't let everybody in the whole world join. So whoever gets in to get in, that's wonderful. You only help certain limited amount of people, because we still need to protect it and keep it somewhat secret in the sense so that it doesn't get diluted and it doesn't stop working. So that's the situation here. I'm gonna go ahead and stop talking and let you watch or listen to the interview. And then when market power, makes his official debut and launches to the general list, I will let you know on the podcast. Or if you want to get to know earlier, then you can go to OptionGenius.com and email us or contact us and say hey, I want to be on the notification list. I want to know more about Market Power. I want to know when it comes out. I want to be one of the first How do I get to the top of the line, right? So let's do that. And let's go ahead and let's get into this interview. Matthew: Alright. So today we're joined by Kevin Donegen, and he's a member of our market power program. And I want to thank you today for sharing your experience. And you know how the course has been going for you and the program, and just really appreciate having you. Kevin: You're welcome. Glad to be here. Thanks, sir. Matthew: You're welcome. So, I always ask people, you know, the first question is, how did you find Option Genius? So a lot of people find it by podcast or other means. So how did you find out Option Genius? Kevin: It's been a few years now, because I joined other, you know, the training portion of Option Genius a couple years ago, I think it was late 21. So almost two years now, I guess, you know, it's a good question, how I found Option Genius. I guess. I was exploring Option Trading, you know, on my phones, or searches and option genius. And I looked at a few mean, option, genius came up and I gravitated towards it. I don't know, I think I was just searching for option learning, training and learning kind of stuff and found it and it's been good. So I think I found it just by searching. Matthew: Just by discovery. Kevin: Yeah, research Matthew: Great. So you've been a part of our original market program. Call you guys kind of like the Founding Fathers, you know, you, you went in there and tried everything? And is there anything when you decided to join the program? Were you like, hey, you know, I want to be a part of this program that stuck out to you. Kevin: Boy, when Allen, when you all had that first introductory conference call regarding the program, and shared the historical back testing data about what the program was based on? I mean, that that clinched it right there, that historical back tested data, of, you know, the premise, and the process of the program, and how it looked back tested was just the results are just remarkable. Matthew: Excellent. Did you have any personal expectations before you joined the program, you know, as far as like a percentage goal or just to kind of get consistent? Kevin: I had been trading options, covered calls and in spreads before a little bit, I dabbled in it. So I guess my initial expectation for the program was to pay back my, the cost of the program. First, that was my first goal. And I did it pretty quickly. And by starting out slow, you know, I, you know, I started out real slow just to get the feel for the program. And as I traded more, and you know, the indicator came up, and I made a trade in one and one again, and one again, my confidence, says, Yes, this is real. And then I just started slowly, my trade starts slowly ramped up, and I think I paid for it. And depending on how slow or fast you start, it can be a fast payback. If you start with larger trades, but I think I paid mine back in a few weeks, like 12 weeks or something. Matthew: Wow, that's great. That's like, yeah, it's really important, what you just said, you know, a lot of people, you know, you're excited, and you can see things working. And a lot of times, you know, the human psychology gets involved, and we go too fast, right? You know, so it's, it's really kind of really great that you kind of measure yourself and start slow. So it's really great. For sure. Is there any kind of particular part of the program that you really like? You know, is it some people can say, oh, it's adjustment, or it's, whatever. Is there anything you can pinpoint? Kevin: Yep, the two things come, pop up in my mind, that the online forum of the group and the chats and the sharing of information amongst the market power group, I really enjoy that to get other people's opinion and take on the program in the market and when to trade, not to trade. So I really like that it's an open forum. And it's, it's welcoming, and no one's afraid to say anything. So I really liked that. The second tool I like is the trading log, the market power trading log that you all put together. It's well organized. I've been using that to track all my trades. Matthew: Great. Yeah. I mean, again, you hit on a really great point. I mean, that we have a group of people, you know, some people are just new to options. And you have some people I said in another interview that are looks like they take it to quantum physics. So it's like, you get all this range of knowledge. And it's really kind of, we're all here for the right reason. So it's really kind of great. It's almost like a family, if you will. Kevin: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Matthew: How has the support been? I mean, you kind of mentioned a little bit from Option Genius, but more like the people around you. I mean, I think you just alluded to that, that you have a good support system that If you want. Kevin: Oh yeah, whether it be a group member or yourself or Trish or an even Allen, it's been great. The communication has been prompt and, and timely and always answered. So there's always someone to answer a question or what have you. So it's been really good. Matthew: That's great to hear. You know, we really want people to feel involved and not feel left out. I'm, you know, there's nothing worse than feeling like you're alone, you know? Yeah. Kevin: So I don't, I don't feel that way at all.  Matthew: Awesome. Has your trading changed at all? Since you joined the program? Like, as far as I mean, can you talked a little about confidence, or, you know, some people? You know, a big main reason is confidence, I say, but how was it for you? Kevin: So, last year before the program, I had some success, just doing it myself, but then I got burned, and wiped away all my profits. So what I get out of the program is the discipline of the program. And, you know, when you have an indicator day, that's the day to trade no other. So, I'm more disciplined since joining the program. And I'm only trading when there's an indicator day, by and large. So the short answer is, I've gained a lot of discipline after joining the program.  Matthew: That's great to hear. So we're all shoot for that to be consistent, you know, and there's nothing worse than trading and winning than winning, and then giving it all back. I think it's like the, you know, it's the worst thing that can happen, right? Kevin: Anybody that's probably been in options have had that experience at one time or another? Matthew: Sure. So it's almost required. Kevin: Boy, it's a tough learning, but that's okay. Matthew: All right. So, um, how have your results been so far? For you? Kevin: I'm looking at my trading log right now, because I figured you'd ask that. And I've kind of added some features to it myself. But if you're interested in those, we can talk about that. But I've made what about 47 trades? Not counting yesterday. So I work off the two platforms. So I'd make trades in both one as is a smaller account, one's a bigger account. So I may duplicate a given day on two different platforms. But anyway, you know, 47 trades, I think I lost only one. And that was because of me. It wasn't because of the program. And I only lost like 600 bucks. So no big deal. And then I adjusted and made it back. So but that was my fault. And I bought too early in the day, basically. And I put notes out there, which is good. My average number of contracts, I would say is 20. So but you know, I've been up as high as 40 and 10. And 30. Just depends how I'm feeling. You know, like, like, yesterday, I did only 20. I don't know, I I don't know why I just didn't want to do 40. You know, and so long and short. I've made over a minute, I also back out the cost of trades to get a net profit, right? So my net profit is 226%. Matthew: Yeah, that's great. You mean, you're trading at a good amount? You kind of just talked to how a little bit can made me kind of feel how I trade you know, there's some days that, you know, you don't you have like kind of a hunch, you know, you're like, I don't really feel, you know, can be personal. It could be like something like, I just don't feel like trading today. And that's perfectly fine. And what I do love, and I think you'll agree is that some days, you don't have to trade, you know, it's like, you don't have to take every signal. Right? You can, you can wait and there'll be another one coming down the pike, you know? Kevin: Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. And that's why that's where the discipline comes in. You know, because you just got to be patient because the signal will come. And when it comes, that's your time. Matthew: So yeah, yeah, you kind of take it as a case by case basis. You know, that's great, for sure. Alright, so kind of a fun question. So a lot of people, they have different goals for their profits. And it's nice to good problem to have, you know, you're in your profit, you're making money. Some people do fun things like take vacations, and some people just roll it into their account. So what are your plans? Kevin: So I guess, on articulate or unstated two goals for the program and the profits that I earned from market power. First is to build up my account so I can grow the dollars in My Account for doing this so that I could keep slowly ramping up as I get more and more comfortable. But then I also, the second one is to take some of the profits and have some fun. And like you alluded to, I think maybe before we started the call, but, you know, I went fishing in Colorado, and virtually almost paid for the whole trip, in a day, at least a good portion of VRBO expense. And then, earlier in the year, my wife and I went to Paris, and I was trading when I was over in Paris, and helps pay for that part of the trip. So, you know, Matthew: It's great. I mean, it almost makes your trip more enjoyable. You know, you're over there, you're like, hey, you know, this is cash flow in this right now, you know? Kevin: Exactly. So it's, it's a great feeling. So yeah, two things, take a little profits, have some fun with it, and then keep growing the account. Matthew: Excellent. Excellent. So what would you say to someone that you were there in the original group, and a lot of people have apprehensions about joining programs, you know, whether it's true, we're kind of at a point now, where we've had many, many winners, and if not any losers on the track record, actually no losses on the track record. So it's almost too good to be true. So people are naturally skeptical. What would you say to someone that, you know, there's going to be next group and a group after that, and people join in this program? So what would you say to someone that's kind of on the fence about joining this program? Kevin: Well, if they see any of these interviews from the current market power group, I gotta believe take it from the member, the current members and what they're saying, and their results, trust, the back tested data is real. And ever since we, we joined market power, the program to your point hasn't had a losing trade yet. So it works. I mean, the data speaks for itself, and they can if they're apprehensive, start slow, kind of like what I did and get comfortable with it. And you'll quickly, quickly get more confidence in the program. Matthew: Excellent. Well, wise words, I mean, you know, it's really important, you hit on some really important points that, you know, patients taking your time, and really kind of just trusting yourself. I mean, give it you know, giving something a try and, you know, the worst possible thing that can happen, you know, so that's great. So I really want to thank you for taking the time today. I really appreciate it and you know, sharing your experience, so really great having you on. Kevin: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you, Matthew. All right. Thank you. Have a great day. You too.

In this episode of "Coping," Kevin and Kathy delve into the concept of labeling emotions productively and destructively in the context of grief. They introduce a helpful tool, the Feelings Wheel, to aid in identifying and expressing emotions, which can help you to explore and acknowledge feelings related to grief. Kathy: Welcome back for another episode of “Coping”. Kevin: Last episode, we talked about ways we can begin to get our grief out, and we talked about the method of linking, linking our losses and the way that our brain naturally does that. Kathy: Yes, if you recall, we discussed the benefits of linking as well as externalizing our inward grief. And in this episode, we're gonna talk about another way we can begin to get the grief out. Kevin: Recently, we purchased a gift for our daughter and that gift is a label maker. She's become so preoccupied with this label maker, assigning all the different things in her room, especially her desk area, making sure everything in her room is neat and tidy, and she knows exactly where it is because of these labels that she's making. So in today's episode, we're gonna discuss this idea of labeling and see how it relates to our grief. Let's get started. Kathy: Yes, so when we were thinking about ideas for our daughter's birthday, she had come across a vintage label maker at her work, and then became very interested in an idea of having one herself. So that's what she's been doing since she's gotten it, making labels and labeling everything like around her room and all of that. Kevin: That's right. And you may be like our daughter obsessed with cleaning and organizing and even own a label maker yourself. I guess the question really is, "how does labeling relate to our grief?" Well, let's start with the definition of labeling. Kevin: Labeling is the simple act of noticing and naming something. I'll say that again. Labeling is the simple act of noticing and naming something. So for example, our daughter, she labels a bunch of things in her office. Like what? What do you see her labeling? Kathy: So she's labeling boxes and just items so that she knows what's in different things and then creating labels for all of us to put on our things as well. Kevin: Exactly. So the label maker is making it easy for her to know at a glance where something is. She knows what it is. She can notice it, name it and grab it right away. Kathy: Right, exactly. I have a question for you. Do you think labeling is always helpful? Kevin: You know, when it comes down to it, I think there's really two types of labeling. First, there's this productive labeling, which we'll call "naming", where you're naming something. This is pretty common in talk therapy where you're encouraged to name the emotions that you're having by noticing them and naming them and helps you get some. control back over those emotions perhaps, but there's also a destructive labeling and we'll call that "shaming." Kevin: So the biggest difference between naming and shaming is its effect on us and how we're using what we're labeling. So destructive labeling or shaming, Webster's dictionary says it's "assigning something to a category, especially inaccurately or restrictively." So this kind of labeling leads to prejudice and marginalization of entire groups of people, where we're using the labeling as a way to marginalize people. This is really like the root of racism, sexism, any anti-LGBTQIA views. It's really at its core, naming something or a people group as a way to shame and to "other" them. This shaming as it relates to grief is called grief shaming. Kevin: Grief shaming is the act of blaming, minimizing, or judging one's expression of grief. And this is pretty common in society. We've all heard this or experienced this in some way, but let's take some time to break it down a little bit. Kathy: I know we've all experienced some of these moments and phrases of grief shaming. Some of them sound like, "well, you weren't even married." "I thought you'd be over it by now." "Miscarriages happen all the time" and "you're still wearing your wedding ring." "Why are you so upset? You didn't even get along with your mom." Or simply grief shaming of silent treatment when a statement is made and there's dead silence. Kevin: What you can see from these phrases, not only does somebody who's grieving have the difficulty of the loss and the grief experience, they also have on top of that the negative experiences of others' negativity and comments or distance that can build their experience of shame and grief being harder than just the actual experience itself. Kathy: Right. Kevin: What I think it's also important to name here is that grief -shaming can also be initiated by us, that we shame ourself in the midst of our own grief, that we judge and blame and criticize ourselves for our experience of grief. Now, self -shaming is the act of blaming, minimizing, or judging one's self -expression of grief. So, you can take those same phrases that somebody's directing at you externally, and you can externalize those things and say things like, "why do I still feel this way?" "I just need to move on. We weren't even that close. Why am I sad that they're gone? Wait, am I sad enough?" Or "others had it way worse than me." My grief is nothing in comparison to what they've been through. Kevin: That type of labeling, it can be unproductive and really stunt your healing experience. You're placing this judgment and criticism on it, which really can stunt it and prevent it from being processed, as we've discussed in other episodes. Kathy: Yeah, both seem to be a cutoff, a cutting off of either you're being cut off by someone or you're cutting yourself off, not allowing yourself to process or have the feelings. You're not giving, there's no permission. Kevin: Yeah, it leads to unresolved grief symptoms in the body, in the mind, the heart, and the spirit. Kathy: Right. So when it comes to loss, what's the other side of this? What does productive labeling look like? Kevin: So one way we can productively label is by naming our feelings. Like I said before, naming feelings is something that we learn in therapeutic relationships where we're called to notice how we're feeling, how something made us feel, reflect on it, and name the emotion attached to it. Kevin: This term in psychology is referred to as affect labeling. In other words, putting feelings into words. Studies have shown that affect labeling reduces activity in our brain's amygdala. That's the part of the brain that has that fight or flight response. It really helps lessen the intensity of any experience, especially as it relates to grief. There's this one psychologist, Dr. Matthew Lieberman. He's a professor, but also an author of a book called, "Social: Why Our Brains Are Wired to Connect". Kevin: He says, “putting negative feelings into words can help regulate negative experiences. In other words, naming our feelings won't put the brakes on that emotion, but will help us get into the driver's seat of the experience.” I love that quote. So good. Kathy: It's very helpful. But I know as an introvert that I always have a hard time naming my feelings. So that all sounds excellent, but for most of us, I think that we don't know how to access that tool of naming our feelings. Do you have any tools or strategies? Kevin: Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think whether you're introverted and you're not really sure what you're feeling, because the emotions are so intense. For extroverts like I am, sometimes you're feeling so many different things you can't quite pin down one feeling. You feel like you're feeling all of the feelings all at once. And so in our workshops we have used a tool called a Feelings Wheel. It's been such a helpful tool for us in our own individual lives, but also in the times that we've taught on the Feelings Wheel to help you articulate the specific emotion that you're having and then describe for yourself how you're feeling, but then also use that language to connect with other people to name how you're feeling. Kathy: Yeah, this Feelings Wheel is fantastic. It really helps. You go from that -- you start in the center and it will give you some main feelings and then you can work your way outward to identify more specifically what you're feeling and it really helps to name what we're talking about today, the feelings. Kevin: Yeah, exactly. And we've found this to be so helpful in our workshops. We want it to be a resource for all of you. So we're gonna put a link in the notes of the podcast so that you can get to it pretty easily but you can also just Google Feelings Wheel and I hope that it can be as useful of a resource to you as it has been for us. Kathy: Yeah, that would be excellent. Kevin: Yeah. All right, so let me just give a summary of what we talked about so far: When we notice and name our feelings, we connect our head, our thinking selves with our heart, our feeling selves. And this language, the naming of our feelings, the productive labeling, gives us language that allows us to articulate our experience to ourselves, but also to others. But most importantly, it gives us language to affirm the experience that we're having. When we can see the words on the page that describe exactly how we're feeling, it can be a very affirming experience. Kathy: Thanks, Kevin. This is super helpful. So to end this episode, we wanted to give you some time right now to think through your feelings as related to your grief. So would you pause with me a moment? Take a few moments to pause. Kathy: And I want you to narrow in on one particular loss for this exercise. Which loss is most prominent for you right now? in your life. I want you to begin to think now how it makes you feel. Why is the loss so heavy for you? Does the loss make you feel sad, angry, fearful? Sit with your loss for a moment and think about the main feelings that arise for you. you It's okay to have more than one feeling as you think on this loss. Kathy: Finally, give yourself permission to sit with the loss and the feelings that come up for you. you. If you need extra support and help with this process, feel free to reach out to us at Be Well, and most of all know that you're not alone. Thanks so much for joining us for this conversation, and whatever you may be coping with today, blessings to you.

Kevin: So those of you that participated in the listing exercise last time, if you want to grab that list out or listen to that episode and create a list of losses, you can build on that exercise in this new exercise. So as you're looking at that list of losses, what I would like you to do is to start thinking about the ways in which the list of losses are interconnected. That process may be natural for you where you begin to draw those connections quite easily and readily. If you feel like you're struggling to think about how those list of what feels like random losses are connected, I want you to choose one big loss on that list of losses, whether it's one of the biggest losses in your life or one of the most recent losses in your life. Start there. Write that word down in the middle of a blank piece of paper and as you look at that word, start to consider the other little losses that have come as a result of that big loss and write those words smaller around that word that's on the middle of your page and you what will begin to develop here is a flowchart. What you can focus on is the size of the words that you're writing. The really big losses, use a bigger font. Some of the other little losses, you can write them in a smaller font. You can start to connect them one by one, using lines or circles. However that starts to play out in your brain, start to make sense of it. And whatever that looks like for you and your experience. You. Get creative with it. There's no right or wrong way to do this, but what you should see by the end of it is a pretty messy page of losses that are interconnected by lines and shapes. And hopefully it begins to look on the page a little bit like it feels in your brain and in your heart. Kathy: Thanks, Kevin. That was a very helpful activity. We just want to say if you're needing extra support and help through your grief, feel free to reach out to us and whatever else you may be coping with, blessings to you.

Kevin: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Coping. Kathy: Yes. Welcome, everyone. Last episode we talked about the ways we can begin to get the grief out. Kevin: Yeah, that's right. So we discussed the benefits of list making and how externalizing our inward grief is a part of processing our grief and working through it. In this episode, we're going to go a little bit deeper and talk about another way to begin to get that reef out. And I think a good way to start is with a fun little game. If you'll play along with me, Kathy. Kathy: As long as you don't keep the score, you're pretty competitive. Kevin: Alright, no scorekeeping. But let's play a little game. So I'm going to say a word, and I want you to say the first word that comes to mind. It's like an association game, okay? Kathy: Okay. Kevin: All right, the first word is tea. Kathy: Scones. Kevin: Good. Alright. Movies. Kathy: Popcorn. Kevin: There you go. Beach. Kathy: Shade. Kevin: Shade. There you go. Kathy: Let me try. How about San Francisco? Kevin: Oh, trolley. Kathy: So I'm assuming that this fun game has something to do with grief and what we're learning about this week. Kevin: That's right. We're going to talk about how our brains are wired to link, and we'll talk about that. Kathy: All right, let's get started. So you mentioned that there's another process we can use to begin to get the grief out. Can you explain? Kevin: Yeah. So this process is called linking. Remember last time we listed our losses? This time we're going to take some time to learn to link those losses and see how our brain is storing those memories. So the next L of loss is Linking. Kevin: When we talk about our brains, we have to remember that every experience we have leaves its mark on our brain. So when we learn something new, the neurons involved in that learning episode grow new projections and form new links in our brain. These links allow for learning and memory and other complex functions of the brain. Kevin: So that leads us to our first principle, which is that our brains link on a cellular level. And this is especially true during difficult experiences. A recent study suggests that our brains recall bad memories more readily and with more clarity than good memories. And I think we all know this to be true in our lives, that we can easily recall those difficult days more than we can recall the good day that we had yesterday. Right? Kathy: Right. Kevin: And researchers say that this tendency has evolved as an evolutionary tactic to protect us against other future life threatening or negative events. So what we learn here is that repetition reinforces remembrance. So I guess that's like our second principle, which is that our brains learn through repetition. So if our brains are linking on a cellular level, our brains are also learning through repetition. Kathy: So I have a question. What about grief? What happens when the memory itself is what causes the pain? Kevin: Yeah, exactly. That's such a great question. Repetition is great when we're learning a new skill, right? If you're shooting free throws, you keep shooting again and again and again to try to learn that perfect repetition, that perfect flow, the stance, the way that the ball sits on the palm of your hand. Practice is so necessary, for when you're learning a new skill. Why doesn't it follow, then, that the more we experience loss, the easier grief gets? Right. If our brain learns through repetition, you would think that the more you lose, the better you get at grief, right? Kevin: And that's just not the way that grief works. And I think the answer to that lies in this third principle here and that's that our brains are wired to remember pain. So like when you burn yourself when you're cooking, you're like, oh ouch, that pan gets hot. I have to remember next time when I'm cooking with this pan, the handle will get hot. I need to be careful about that. And so experiencing loss and pain actually strengthens the brain's neural pathways, which essentially links every new loss to every previous loss we've ever experienced. Kevin: So our brains are quite literally linking our losses. That's our fourth principle here: Our brains are linking our losses. Kathy: That makes complete sense. Even if as I think about how I remember things that are very painful and how they remind me of other times that are painful and if someone talks about something, it will trigger a memory of that. So I'm wondering, how do you recommend that our listeners engage in this linking practice? Kevin: Yeah, that's really good. I think there's two things. One is just remembering when you're experiencing a new loss and you feel like the experience of that loss is way harder than what the event may call for, your brain is likely linking this loss to other previous losses. Kevin: So those of you that have had the terrible experience of being in a car accident may have felt, felt some other memories from your childhood or other losses. Breakups, broken relationships, those memories arise in those difficult experiences. And that's because that newer trauma can bring up experiences of past traumas and past losses. And so just the awareness that what you're facing today may feel heavier and harder than what it actually is, and that's okay. Kevin: And it's an opportunity to tend to what you need in that moment through that experience, but also the other pains that you've experienced in your life. So just being aware that your brain is naturally linking is probably a good first step. But there's also a spiritual practice that you can develop or an exercise that you can develop that will help you to show you visually the way that your brain is linking some of your losses. So those of you that participated in the listing exercise last time, if you want to grab that list out or listen to that episode and create a list of losses, you can build on that exercise, in this new exercise. Kevin: So as you're looking at that list of losses, what I would like you to do is to start thinking about the ways in which the list of losses are interconnected. That process may be natural for you where you begin to draw those connections quite easily and readily. Kevin: If you feel like you're struggling to think about how those list of what feels like random losses are connected, I want you to choose one big loss on that list of losses. Whether it's one of the biggest losses in your life or one of the most recent losses in your life, start there. Kevin: Write that word down in the middle of a blank piece of paper, and as you look at that word, start to. The other little losses that have come as a result of that big loss, and write those words smaller around that word that's in the middle of your page. Kevin: What will begin to develop here is a flowchart. What you can focus on is the size of the words that you're writing. The really big losses use a bigger font. Some of the other little losses, you can write them in a smaller font. You can start to connect them one by one, using lines or circles. However that starts to play out in your brain, start to make sense of it. Whatever that looks like for you and your experience, get creative with it. Kevin: There's no right or wrong way to do this, but what you should see by the end of it is a pretty messy page of losses that are interconnected by lines and shapes. And hopefully it begins to look on the page a little bit, like it feels in your brain and in your heart. Kathy: Thanks, Kevin. That was a very helpful activity. We just want to say if you're needing extra support and help through your grief, feel free to reach out to us and whatever else you may be coping with, blessings to you.

In this episode, Andy chats with Kevin Williams an expert in ChatGPT and A.I. ========== References: www.SprinklerNerd.com/inkworks www.InkWorks.ai ========== Kevin: You know, it's not going to be AI that replaces you as the employee or, or supplants you, your company. It's going to be a company that knows how to use AI or a person who knows how to use AI that's going to disrupt things. Andy: Hello my friends. This is Andy. Welcome to episode 129. Of the Sprinkler Nerd Show, where it's my job to speak with world-class water and technology innovators from all walks of life so that it may inspire you and your business. My guest today is Kevin Williams. Who is Kevin Williams? Kevin has been featured in Inc.Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and even as a Shark Tank business. Before starting his current company, www.inkworks.ai, Kevin was the former operating partner and CEO of www.balls.co. And before that, Kevin was the founder and CEO of Brush Hero, which is the product you may have seen on shark tank. Our conversation today will be focused on AI tools like Chat GPT, and how you can implement these tools in your business. So with that, Kevin, welcome to the show.  Kevin: Thanks so much for having me, Andy.  Andy: I cannot wait to talk about AI and how service businesses, contractors, irrigators, and landscapers can learn a little bit from you, who has spent a lot of time, uh, really becoming an expert in this field. And I think that before we jump into that, I'd like to ask how you got your start in business and as an entrepreneur.  Kevin: It's, it's funny. I actually come from a family of entrepreneurs ever since I was about 10 or 12. My family was traveling all over the country with various business ideas and it was just part of the fabric of my life. Kevin: Sadly, that story doesn't actually end particularly well. So sometimes I, I, I glib about it that I come from a family of failed entrepreneurs because in a period in my adolescence, my parents lost their business, they lost their house. They lost their marriage, like all of this horrible stuff. So young Kevin decides that a good idea is to not be an entrepreneur and instead go be a chemist. Kevin: Well, fates have a way of, uh, of messing with plans like that. Um, I went on the straight and narrow path. I did a bunch of interesting stuff and I ended up at pretty good business school. And in business school, I entered a business plan competition just as a part of a, like an elective entrepreneurship class. Kevin: And I won. And I won a bunch of money that came along with it for seed funding. Um, so I ended up starting my first business having done everything in my power not to be an entrepreneur. I was like, oh heck, here's an opportunity. I'm just going to take a left turn in my life and chase this now. Um, that business didn't necessarily go anywhere, but it introduced me to the angel and venture community in my town in Washington DC and uh I ended up operating businesses for a high net worth, uh, individuals for a bunch of years and my own entrepreneurial journey kicked in again, where I saw that there was just so much waste in a lot of startup companies that people really didn't know how to demonstrate. Kevin: What we marketers would call product market fit, and instead they just dump bucket loads of money into things trying to prove a concept. Uh, and when I saw the rise of social media, I saw an opportunity to rapidly test concepts, um, without necessarily spending a lot of money. And that pivoted into a whole series of businesses where I would either license or buy intellectual property. Kevin: And my dirty little secret was that when a patent was pitched to me, I could go out onto social media and test some concept around that product. I could throw a bunch of traffic at it, see if anybody cared. If people cared about the idea, then I would license the patent and then I would already know that I could get on to first base with the product. Kevin: Was it going to be a home run? Who knows, but I could get on to first base. So that led to the Brush Hero product, which I had licensed. I'd licensed the underlying IP from a gentleman in the UK, um, and several other patents in homewares and kitchenwares. Uh, I sold, um, or I, yeah, I exited Brush Hero in about 2019. Kevin: And, um, then I ended up running, uh, a large international brand. Usually I don't say, but yes, it was Balls. co.  Andy: Fuck it, you can say it on this channel, on this show.  Kevin: Yes, I was a manscaper. Um, so Balls was the largest, uh, manscaping company in Europe. Uh, you can probably already tell I'm not the guy who tells Balls jokes all day. Kevin: So it was, it was pretty fun to dive into a brand like that. British sensibility, really cheeky humor. And, um, our goal was to drive it into, uh, the U S with that sort of humor. Um, the realities of running a UK European based business from the West coast of the U S not so great. A lot of early mornings, a lot of late nights. Kevin: So, mm-hmm. , in part when I saw just the I I, I, I like to think that I immediately saw the opportunities that generative AI would represent when G P T launched in November of last year, and I left and dove feet first into generative AI and practical applications of it. Um, And I've been rooting around for business models in my M. Kevin: O. You know, test some ideas, test a lot of different things, um, to see what might take root. And from there, ink works is one of several different products, projects that I'm working on, um, as well as doing executive coaching and executive coaching oriented around a I capacity development within organizations. Kevin: Because one challenge of all of this Is that coming up with a one size fits all solution just isn't practical. So business leaders need to develop a framework around the way that they think about AI and how they're going to safely lever it in their business. Um, as opposed to just looking for a magic bullet type. Kevin: Platform that they can just buy. That's going to solve all of their problems. Um, that's going to be very interesting to, to, to see how that develops. And it's been fun to, to, to work with other business leaders to try and identify how their particular business, be it, you know, in landscaping or direct consumer or. Kevin: Business to business SAS type stuff. Well, how can they actually deploy this stuff right away to make changes in their business? Because, you know, the, the adage has become. You know, it's not going to be AI that, that replaces you as the employee or, or supplants you, your company. It's going to be a company that knows how to use AI or a person who knows how to use AI that's going to disrupt things. Andy: I love that. So there's a couple takeaways. I'm going to start with the last thing you said, because it reminds me of a great expression that I can't remember who the author is, but I use it all the time. And that is the company that kills you will look nothing like you. So when you said AI may not replace the person, it's going to be a company that knows how to use AI that becomes your competitor. Andy: That's a great example of another company that It looks nothing like you, but could end up killing your business and you were running balls. co and this is not the right time to talk about balls. co, but we don't actually talk about a lot of balls in this industry. We do talk about a lot of nipples though. Andy: There are many different types of nipples in the irrigation industry, believe it or not. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to put that out there inside joke for those that are listening. We don't talk about balls, but we like to talk about nipples, talk about  Kevin: turf.  Andy: And turf. Yep. Totally. You can talk about turf. Andy: There's a lot to, a lot to play with there. Not last week. It's been probably three weeks now. Kevin and I both went to a conference. I would say that's just for shark tank companies, just for those who have. been on Shark Tank, whether it aired or whether it was just taped, because we know that most of the businesses that tape don't actually go to air. Andy: So we were both at the conference, and that's when I was learning about what you were doing in the AI space, because Kevin was actually presenting at the conference. And I thought this would be great, Kevin, to have you come and share some of your Uh, real practical world experience with AI, you know, and how you are coaching people to use it, some of the value that it has, and maybe even some of the best practices or things you should do first, second, third, or even how do you optimize the responses of, let's say, chat GPT versus a beginner that just goes in and asks it a basic question. Andy: So very, very excited, and especially because this industry is tends to lag behind.  Kevin: So first, just to back up, I we were sort of operating on the assumption that everybody knows what this is, and I'm pretty sure everybody has at least heard of it at this point. That is this magic machine that can that you can talk to, and it can it can come up with responses. Kevin: Um, but it is actually a success story. That's it's one of those overnight successes. That's eight years in the making that billions and billions of dollars has been poured into what are called neural networks that allow So Uh, highly abstract patterns to to interact with each other such that the magic machine can output based on a predictive model. Kevin: What might come next from a thought? So that's essentially what it's doing. It's predicting from the sum of the human Internet knowledge. What? The next likely thought can be, and it is absolutely amazing what it can do, but the underlying fundamentals of neural networks have been around for a long time. Kevin: The novelty and what was just completely mind blowing for most of us was the Interaction, the interactive effect. Like if you leave a bunch of wonky people together who are studying neural networks, they know how neural networks work. They don't need this chat functionality. What the chat functionality did is it made it much more accessible for we mere mortals to be able to lever these tools, um, on on even on a basic level, as opposed to going through a whole machine learning type process. Kevin: So These are predictive models. They're taking the sum of human knowledge and they are outputting the next likely. So the first thing to understand about them is that They don't necessarily know or care if anything is particularly accurate. So, this is what you hear about in terms of hallucinations. And hallucinations are just wrong facts. Kevin: Like, the AI is not particularly good with facts. It's very good at expressing A dubious fact in a very convincing way, which should be a giant red flag for most of us who produce any sort of content that particularly in a subject matter that's relatively technical like what you guys are talking about, um, it could easily. Kevin: It could easily just lie to you. So the first thing that I tell people from a, from a mindset perspective is that you need to calibrate what you're doing with the AI based on who you are and what you know, so picture like a Venn diagram, you've got this. One circle, that's the size of my house, that is the sum total of human knowledge. Kevin: And then you have this intersecting circle that's much smaller, which is the sum total of who you are and what you know and what you know about irrigation and, uh, and lawn care and everything else. Right? And the intersection of those two circles is where the power really lies. So If you, the farther you drift away from that, the more likely you are to get into dangerous territory. Kevin: So, I know a lot about digital marketing. I know a lot about business operations and such. That is a core of who I am. But, if I drift away and I start talking with the AI about neuropsychology, I might get interesting results, but I have no way of calibrating whether or not those results are actually useful or, or practical or not. Kevin: I'm just leaving it to the AI. So when you say  Andy: calibrate, what does, what does that mean? What does calibrate mean? So  Kevin: it's you know what you know. So imagine, you know, most of us have have businesses that are large enough that you have developing staff like there. There are other people that are involved in the business and you you take, let's just say a new sales guy and You, The way If you're the senior sales guy or you're the business owner, you might tell the sales guy to go off and do X, Y, and Z. Kevin: And then you're going to look at the output and you're going to, you're going to coach them, you're going to push them towards an output that you know is going to work in because you have this expertise in the knowledge. It's the same as true for the AI. The AI doesn't necessarily know what it's talking about, but if you were to look at the output. Kevin: Your art as a business person and just as an individual is being able to identify the value in that output. And if it's something you don't know anything about, that's going to be really hard to do. So if you're, if you're looking at, at creating something that's entirely new that you don't know anything about, there are ways to use AI that you can do that. Kevin: But it's not as effective as Amplifying things that you already do know. So in a lot of organizations, let's just take a lawyer, for example, like you could you could call a lawyer and say, Hey, I need to set up a trust document and whatever. And right now the M. O. would be that lawyer would probably record the call or take notes on the call. Kevin: They would go to their associate. Their associate would look through their templates about it. Trust. They'd adapt it to Wyoming. They put it back to the senior attorney who would then approve it, edit it, give it red lines, hand it back to the guy or gal and then process it and then finalize it and then send it out because that senior attorney really knows their stuff or you hope they really know their stuff. Kevin: They can do that. That is their art. That is their job. That is their profession. But now you can bypass all of that, that associates job. Not so good for the associate, right? But you could output that document and be able to read it and have it done in 15 seconds, but you can't abdicate your professionalism and your art. Kevin: You can't just trust it. You're going to get 80% of the way there in 15 seconds, but that last 20% of editing and clarifying and redlining, um, you still own that at least at the moment. So. The lawyer knows a lot about law. The business guy has actually read a ton of contracts, right? Like, I've probably read a thousand contracts in my career. Kevin: I'm not a lawyer. I happen to be married to one. But, I... Not a lawyer, but if I need to create a new contract I can actually get 90% of the way there So let's just say 70% of the way there Because I know how contracts are written right and I can read it and I can interpret Okay, this indemnification clause makes sense to me The smart move is to then send it on to the lawyer, but I didn't have to spend the 500 for him to draft the first version. Kevin: I just need to spend the 250 for him to take a pass at it at the other side, because I know enough to be dangerous. Now, if it were to get into case law, statutes, regulations, things like that, it could easily lie to you, and that's out of my realm. Like the lawyer might recognize that that case isn't a real case or that that statute isn't accurate, but dang, if the AI isn't going to be very, very compelling in its, it's sort of its defense of its own facts that it's putting forward, but that's the. Andy: So, so would it be. Would it be safe to say that an attorney who uses Chet GPT, if Chet GPT or the AI can do the 70% as you describe, but because they're the expert in that field, they can review that 30% and get it right. So that if it's lying, they can correct it because they have the expert knowledge in that core business. Kevin: Exactly, exactly. And this is where I like to focus when I'm talking to people about it. There's a lot of water is wet out there. Oh, you can just. Have it write a giant blog post for you. Okay. That's cool. You know, it's cool to watch it do its output. It's like, it's sort of mind blowing if you haven't seen it by all means, totally go sign up and see that because it's really cool, but that doesn't allow you to abdicate from your art and your expertise. Kevin: So, you know, your audience knows a lot about lawn care and it like, like you can have it create a blog post about certain patterns of irrigation and you're going to be able to decide whether or not those are accurate or not. But if you want to reach into topics that you don't know much about, even if they're close to you, you can. Kevin: But you have to have either some sort of validation mechanism such that you can determine whether it's accurate or not, um, or not care, so. Because  Andy: then if somebody who is an expert in that category reads it, they may think, Oh my gosh, what is Kevin talking about here? He doesn't know what he's talking about. Andy: This is not accurate.  Kevin: Exactly. Like imagine, you know, I, as I understand it, that, uh, you know, grass varietals change by different continents and there's expertise in South America and they're, you know, sprinkler nerds in South America and like you pontificating about, you know, Argentine varieties of. Kevin: Bermuda grass, like that person is going to be able to smell a rat because that's their, their expertise. And worse, this is sort of meta as there's an industrial scale opportunity for content production. If all of us. I'm not going to get noble about this, but like if all of us are out there producing bad content, the AIs will be trained on the bad content. Kevin: So there is going to be value. Is that the  Andy: garbage in garbage out analogy? Yes.  Kevin: Garbage in garbage out. And at some point it all reverts to the mean. So from the segment of your audience that is out there and doing direct to consumer type marketing, don't be, don't be tempted to do just. Industrial scale output. Kevin: Your art has to be producing new information from somewhere. But what AI can do is it can make some of that new information really accessible. Like there's a lot of geeky in this sort of field, right? And there's scholarly articles about soil density and all this other stuff. One really cool use of AI is to be able to contextualize something like a scholarly document and make it accessible to people who have expertise that can do something interesting to it. Kevin: So, you know, somebody comes out with a paper from the university of Florida, as far as water absorption rates, whatever it is, and you can then use the AI to simplify that overly complicated document to a way that it falls into that zone of expertise and art. And then you can actually. Add to the corpus of information that's out there on the web in an additive way because that paper was never really going to get found. Kevin: It was somebody's PhD thesis or whatever. But now you Andy can like actually make that accessible in a way that increases the store of human knowledge and from a Strategic perspective, I do suspect that, that, that brands, particularly in the internet who can truly add novel value are going to be rewarded by search engines, by advertising platforms, et cetera, and that those who simply put it out like high volume garbage are going to get severely punished. Kevin: And, and I'm  Andy: thinking that likely the level one knowledge. Which may address the most frequently asked questions about lawn care on the internet will probably be garbage in garbage out and stuff that everybody talks about. I love what you said about finding a scholarly article and what came to my mind is that there actually are scholarly articles from, I believe, University of Florida on, you know, lawn care and let's say soil moisture sensor technology. Andy: And my question would be, number one, Perhaps this would be a great training example for us to do live like, Hey, let's grab a couple articles and use that to produce some really awesome content using AI. And could we do that? You know, could we take an article of a research on soil moisture sensor, not right now about soil moisture sensor technology, real case studies and recreate it in a, in a, in a way that everybody could understand it simplified, but on a deep topic  Kevin: like that. Kevin: So this is, let's walk through the practical example. The example is yes, that would be really cool, right? So first you're going to find the article and then let's just be practical. First, if you're not paying for GPT, pay for it. It's 20 bucks a month and it gives you access to GPT 4, but more importantly, it gives you advanced access to advanced processing. Kevin: So the, the 3. 5 was the first model 4. 0 is where it is now. 4. 0 is roughly 10 times. It's more powerful as far as the level of connections. It's also slower, um, which can be a little bit agonizing in a demo because it writes really slowly. Um, but it allows you to contextualize. These are, these are all terms that are going to be so common in the next few years, but right now we're all kind of bending our heads around it that you have to set context. Kevin: Like, uh, I like this particular example, like you go, you stand at the top of a, of a building at, uh, you know, Times Square, you stand in the middle of Times Square and you say, what should I read? And people are going to have all kinds of opinions. They're going to have like, Oh, you should read the Bible. Kevin: You should read, you know, Tom Clancy. You should read, you know, the, the sprinkler digest of 2022. The Idiot's Guide to Landscaping. But that's because, yes, of course, you know, scintillating reading, right? But that's because nobody knows anything about you. So one of the first keys here is you have to set the context of the conversation such that you're narrowing, you're narrowing what you're after. Kevin: So from a practical perspective in GPT 4, you can start out a conversation by saying, I'm a landscaping expert. Um, I'm interested in expanding my knowledge of lawn care practices using scholarly articles. And it's going to say something like, yay. Next you set the context for the conversation because you could just. Kevin: Continue. And this is where it gets dangerous. Like, let's just chat about lawn care. And you're going to come up with all kinds of interesting stuff. In the back and forth that it's, it's, as you're, you're expanding. It knows who you are. It kind of knows what you're looking for. But now, you want to refine that context further. Kevin: And the way that you do that is by contextualizing something like a scholarly article. And there are tools, they're called plug ins within GPT 4, that allow you to do that. And that's simply by Letting it ingest the PDF, and now this is what we're talking about. We're not talking about the body of the knowledge, of world knowledge about lawn care. Kevin: We now have established minimal context that you have expertise in lawn care, and now specifically what we're going to talk about is this scholarly article. Like, use, oh mighty GPT, use your chat based functionality to make this easy, but this is what we're talking about. So now you've set the context for it. Kevin: And you're going to do something like, let's ask for a summary, um, that would be applicable and interesting information for an audience that is focused in on lawn care science. And it's going to come up with a bunch of ideas. Okay, cool. Now. Let's say, oh, okay, I like idea number three, that, um, you know, I don't know, relative humidity and the impact of, uh, water absorption rates on whatever it is. Kevin: Now let's dive into that, and let's put a marketing hat on. Okay, let's produce content, a blog post about this that, that, that incorporates interesting facts from the scholarly, the scholarly doc, document, and dresses it up with a little bit of marketing speak. Okay, cool. Now, because we're a marketer, we need to put headlines on it. Kevin: So let's come up with 10 possible headlines for this. So now you have 10 possible headlines for the article. Now let's get a little bit wonky because this is a scholarly article. Scholarly articles often come along with data sets. Okay. So you could actually ingest a dataset using the, the, the code interpreter function within GPT and say something completely simple, like some giant dataset, and just say, help me visualize the data in this dataset in a few different ways that would be interesting to my audience, my audience. Kevin: Like you've already defined who your audience is, right? It's another cool part. Like it has permanence. Um, So it's remembering  Andy: what you gave it earlier when you said, you know, my audience is homeowners, you know, interested in black, it, it,  Kevin: it, it stores that. So we've, we all, we all, I'm not going to say the name because it'll trigger, but the S device on a, on an Apple, if I were to say the name and I would say, Hey, what's, what's the weather in park city tomorrow? Kevin: It's going to have an answer. And if I simply said, what's the weather on Saturday? It's going to say, what are you talking about? Because it has no permanence to it at all. You have to start over in that conversation. Permanence in GPT is so cool. So just a practical tip. You have chats. that maintain that context. Kevin: And some of my chats are now hundreds of pages along because I'm chatting through specific business models and it knows that that's what we're talking about. It doesn't need to like remind itself. I can go back months later and bring something up and all that context is set and you get much better results once the context is set. Kevin: So what you've done with that. So if you, if you have a  Andy: thought. Or you have another question, but it's really related to some other things you've already asked that you'll instead of starting a new conversation, if that's what it's called, you'll go back to your other one and add it into the dialogue. Andy: Yep,  Kevin: exactly. Just write, don't even need to be like, do you remember what we're talking about? No, of course it remembers what it's talking about. It's a machine, right? Um, but imagine you've put out that blog post and, um, somebody now in the community has some insightful question and you're like, I don't know what the answer is. Kevin: Dump the question in and say, this was a community conversation. Can you, can, can you come up with some sort of, can you help me answer this question? And it's going to use the context of your chat. The conversation you have, it's going to use the document that's been set as context. And it's going to try and answer that question within that much narrower context, um, than just the wild west of the internet. Kevin: So taking it like just taking it to the logical conclusion again, as a marketer, you need visuals. So now we haven't talked about the visual tools at all. I've been very GPT focused and GPT is not the only language model out there. I just, it currently is the strongest, but. In my opinion, but there will be many, there's no real barriers to this except gazillions of dollars, which people like Mark Zuckerberg have. Kevin: So you're gonna see a lot of different models and this is just, it's going, they're all gonna be out there. So people will choose their poison. Do you know,  top  Andy: of mind what a couple other models are that we could share list in the,  Kevin: so Google Bard is quite powerful, and it's not like Google wasn't working on this. Kevin: They missed a tick. They have business model problems with this that are pretty obvious. You know, they make 160 billion a year off of advertising. And what does advertising mean if. Like you get the answer, it's not so great. So they  Andy: also not perusing the internet and clicking lots of times and visiting lots of pages and getting served. Andy: Lots of visuals. We're  Kevin: in that space, right? Yeah. So it's, it's, it's going to be an interesting existential crisis for them. They seem confident about it. So I think they have a plan, but they're constrained. My, my worry is big brands like that get more constrained by reputational impact. We all have heard the stories of the New York times, I think. Kevin: Kevin Roos, um, who like the AI tried to convince him to leave his wife and stuff. Um, like open AI, which is GPT can kind of get away with that with its. I'm a 10 billion startup thing, but Google has to worry about that. So naturally they've limited their model more. So there are all these instructions and there's a term that's, that's, that's. Kevin: It may be permanent, but at the moment, I'm not quite sure it's called a constitution. And it's this idea that there's, there's an operating, we call the, the, the, the, anytime you type something into a LLM, it's a prompt, but there are all these hidden prompts that are behind the scenes. And those hidden prompts are, let  Andy: me catch you right there. Andy: You, you, you mentioned a buzzword that I want to make sure everybody knows you said.  Kevin: Large language model. So a GPT is one of the large language models. Um, Lama from Meta and Facebook is another one. Um, Google has its own that, that underpins BARD. Um, these are all, they've all done the similar thing where they've subsumed. Kevin: The Internet and are making these connections. Um, and then, yeah, that's a GPT is not the generalized term term. It's that it has that has to do with technical language transformation. So GPT is actually a technical term. Yeah. So anytime you put a prompt into these things, that's a set of instructions that the AI is then trying to follow. Kevin: But there's a whole set of hidden prompts behind the scenes that are basically don't be psychotic, like Try not to say like racist stuff. Try not to like incite violence. Like, don't try, don't answer legal questions in a way that could be misleading. Like, it's, it's, it's like this whole giant set of things and, you know, building that constitution into the model, um, the, the, sort of the strength of that constitution ties into, this is slightly wonky, but it ties into the, the, the, how crazy the outputs can be. Kevin: And there's another term in there that's called temperature. So the higher the temperature, the more likely it is to go batshit. That it's going to start making And what does a high  Andy: temperature mean? What,  Kevin: what is that? So it's a, it's like a continuum, like low temperature is cold. Just the facts, man. And stick to the fact Right. Kevin: This is what Okay, I see. High temperature is, we're going to loosen up. That loose that that that neural network and you know, I'm being I'm trying to paraphrase a little bit But like it's gonna loosen up the neural network and allow the network to make kind of wilder connections between things  Andy: Okay, so it's called something that's extremely factual like one plus one is two would that be very very cold  Kevin: not factual So that you got to be super careful like it's pretty okay. Kevin: All right high level of probability that 1 plus 1 is 2, but, but some of these models are very bad at math. Um, because they don't, that's not what they do. They're, they're predicting that one thought follows the golden rule. Okay, we have a lot of information about the golden rule. We, we are really, really comfortable that the golden rule is due unto others, right? Kevin: So that low temperature, it's going to connect this extremely high temperature. It may come up with something like Hmm. Maybe that means something different. Hmm. Let's just like connect things. So it gets creative on its own? It's creative. Don't anthropomorphize, but it's, it's easy to do, but it is, um, it just gets looser in its neural connections and it can be very powerful in terms of being extremely creative. Kevin: There's an example that's, uh, I like that. So a high  Andy: temperature means more creative.  Kevin: Yes. And most of the models by default operate at a relatively low temperature because, That's where the you should leave your life wife and marry me stuff comes in where it starts like It's crazy. Like, don't get me wrong. Kevin: Like, researchers in this space, they anthropomorphize it because it's doing stuff that they don't understand.  Andy: Well, I'm just wondering, um, number one, I'll ask you, and you could answer it now or later, is this, is this regulated? Because if it's high temp and it's super creative, which means it may not be accurate, should there be a disclaimer in the response that must be included if you use the tool? Andy: Because the answer may or may not be correct because it's high temp and where, where do we draw the line? Or is there a line being drawn on telling someone disclosing the use of the tool?  Kevin: So this is where Europe is heading. Europe is heading to a disclosure of AI, and I think we may see something similar. Kevin: To this in the U S at some point, but it's a commons issue. Like that sort of disclosure is only as good as the compliance of the community and the enforcement mechanisms that make that happen. And I have doubts having lived in the digital marketing trends as long as I have that. If there's an edge to be had, people don't have to use these models. Kevin: So that's, we haven't really talked  Andy: about that. And right now I can write a blog post about whatever I want, factual or not. It's up to someone else to actually decide if it's right or not. I don't have to, there's no disclosure I have to put on it currently.  Kevin: And you bury it in your terms anyway, in the bottom of the fine print somewhere. Kevin: Yeah. It's like an affiliate disclosure that, um, it is possible that artificial intelligence was in some way used to construct this particular note, this particular route. Right. So maybe by  Andy: default, someone would have to trust the author, i. e. trust Kevin, trust Andy, trust the author. Then you'll trust the words, but don't trust the words. Andy: All by themselves, unless you trust the source, which is essentially where we're at today anyway.  Kevin: Yep, exactly. Do you trust the source? So authority, you have a lot of authority in this space, because you have such a great community, and you know, there's a lot of energy and output and such. That is why search engines reward you, or I assume reward you for that output. Kevin: Mm hmm. The same will be true in these models that, that, and that's the winners will be those who have a lot of authority and a lot of credibility and that will make it very hard for new entrants to, to batter through. In my opinion, there will always be shenanigans or tactics that are designed to like break through the model and try and get something that to get attention. Kevin: Um, but I think it's going to be a lot harder than it has been with a search engine optimization SEO over the years.  Andy: Let me ask you a quick question. Do you think a service business? Landscape contractor, landscape maintenance, service business, irrigation, you know, they could write an article about, let's say, turf grass management, and they could write that article with the audience being the world, yet that, with the audience being the world, that pool is extremely competitive, which makes me think that they should use That's AI to write something more hyperlocal so that they're found with somebody in their service area, and that's what matters. Andy: It's like lawn care maintenance in Peoria, Illinois, and being the expert there, but not Santa Fe, New Mexico.  Kevin: So I think, would that be the right way to think of it? I think it would. And you and I chatted briefly about Sunday. I mean, that might be a polarizing company in your world, but they do from a sales mechanism. Kevin: They're very, very good about using satellite imagery and sort of loose connections about soil density and soil construction in order to get you into their marketing funnel. And they can do that because they were extremely well funded. And, you know, they, they spent a lot of money trying to figure this out. Kevin: And the fact is there's really nothing right now preventing a Peoria, Illinois provider who knows about soil to be able to output like sort of micro geo content. Based on the information that they have to, to educate the Peoria, Illinois population about the very specific aspects of their soil on a level that someday can never touch because it's just microform. Kevin: They're too  Andy: big, right? Exactly. They're the authority in this particular area based on their experience just in this area, which someone who lives in that area, they would want to hire someone. That knows a thing or two about that specific location.  Kevin: So imagine you have your scholarly article, let's put a few of them in there that are about like how to manage, you know, pH, whatever it is, and then you can put a data set or even even sort of qualitative information. Kevin: Well, I happen to know that Be embarrassed to show you guys my lawn, but the, uh, like I happen to know I'm in a high clay area and like, I don't really know what that means, but like, you, if you feed all of this in, you could come up with a very practical micro guide that's very effective without necessarily having to do the whole lift of, of, of doing the brain dump. Kevin: Of everything, you know, about high clay environments. Um, you could use the AI as your assistant to relatively rapidly output that information. So, I mean, honestly, that's, that's very practical. Like anybody listening to this. If you're that hypothetical Peoria, Illinois, like provider, you should totally do this. Kevin: There's SEO value to that, like as far as having content that, that a local, like long care tips in Peoria, you know, right now you might actually find, if you were to type that in, there are all of the dynamically generated, like SEO articles about there that do that. But that's kind of crap content on the inside. Kevin: If you have authority as somebody who's in that community. Plus, you know, being a professional organization there, plus offering this micro content that's useful to people. You wouldn't have bothered before this. Now you can do it. You can do it this in like a half an hour. Like this is, it's, it's way easier than it, than it would have been. Kevin: And. Is it going to change your business, but is it going to, on the edges, allow you to build out just this, this corpus of credibility that, that in a very SEO sort of way can follow you over the years? Yeah, that's very plausible. Wow, this  Andy: is really hands on. I mean, I think we could, there could be a ton of value in actually doing a live workshop that could be recorded for people to see later, but take similar businesses, i. Andy: e. irrigation, contracting companies that number one, all have to have a website. I'll know exactly the type of work that they do and all know exactly their, who their best customer ideally is create some content, you know, copy pasted onto their blog, you know, know what the traffic is now. And then over. Andy: let's say three, six months, what happens after the end of six months? Could we get a cohort together that becomes like number one ranked in all of their local areas through a quick training demo seminar?  Kevin: There's value in that. I think that'd be  Andy: fun. Wow. Okay. Well, we can't show people actually how to use chat GPT today, but I love how you talked about some of the context because I feel like that's what I've had to learn the most about is not just asking it a simple question, but creating that frame. Andy: Um, and believe it or not, I learned it from my son, who was apparently was taught how to use this in college, and he's a computer science major, and you know, he uses it actually to correct some of his code when it doesn't work, uh, among other things, but he was the one that taught me you got to basically, you know, tell it who it is, what its job is, all those sorts of things to frame it. Andy: Which I had no idea about and I think that a lot of people may use again Just chat GPT and then say, you know, I tried it, but it didn't give me the results. So yeah,  Kevin: I'm done And so let's let's wrap a little bit of truth practical other practical ways that I think that everybody should be using it and cool, it's you know ranging from just dead simple to much more complicated but the Most simple bit is none of us have any excuse to have blank page syndrome again Like, some people are talented content creators. Kevin: A lot of people aren't. I am not. I, I actually can write, but it is an agonizing process for me. I'm not that guy who just can hammer something. And I have blank page syndrome. I sit there, I look at the page, and I kind of play with some words, and I'm like, eh. We  Andy: don't have that. Then your mind starts to hurt, and you'll go, eh, I'll, I'll try it again tomorrow. Andy: And then it's just repeat, repeat, repeat, and you never frickin do it.  Kevin: So now it's like I need to write a letter to X, Y, and Z client, and this is the sort of stuff that it can't contain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and bam, you've got a draft. And then my art and my effort is spent on revising that draft and personalizing it and putting the me into that draft. Kevin: But I'm already, I've gone from zero to eight, like in 15 seconds or, you know, it's spending a little bit of time. Going back and forth with it working on tone, you know, bringing that down a little bit. So that's one It's just you you don't need blank page syndrome again Like you just start with something and then work them in related is a brainstorming partner is like Trying to isolate good ideas. Kevin: What's a bad omnipotent Personal assistant, um, next to you who knows everything about everything and occasionally lies to you, but they're very enthusiastic about it. So pretty cool to have like this brilliant thing that you can like bounce ideas off of and none of it's perfect, but boy, does it come up with some just interesting things, particularly if you, if it's like come 10 actionable headlines for this topic, like, oh, that's kind of interesting. Kevin: Like, Oh, that's neat. Let's explore this a little bit more. Um, also related. Um, you know, I think a lot of small companies struggle with creative design and creative development and are frankly beholden to a lot of creative like people and agencies out there that charge a lot of money for it. Being able to use this as sort of a creative designer assistant, again, you're not going to get to eight or nine in this case, if you're not already creative, but being able to use it to get to, you know, six, seven, eight, and like maybe script out a video or a piece of content and have an idea of what that's going to take to get it done. Kevin: Oh, you know, what sort of camera angles might I use? And then you walk into the conversation. with that creative partner, and you're way more equipped. You have a good idea of what the storyboard looks like and what it feels like. And then their art is layered on top of that because they don't know your business. Kevin: Like as much as we all love the idea of having a creative agency that knows everything about us, they're busy and they might know something about your business, but you will always know your business better than they will. So if you can kind of skip that phase and get to the, the, the creative production part. Kevin: That can be super, super useful, um, correcting documents, um, or assessing documents rapidly. Just, just being able to absorb information like in your guy's world, like every time a new regulation comes out or if, uh, you know, scholarly articles, if you're a real geek, you know, whatever it is, being able to rapidly ingest that information in a way that, that you just, you have it in your to do list. Kevin: Okay. Like I have family members who love to send me Atlantic articles. Like they're always like. 15 pages long and like, I just can't, I like don't have the bandwidth to read it. So I'll put the article in GPT. I'll summarize it. I'll frame who I am, uh, and like be able to come up with a summary that, uh, that, that, that is appropriate for who I am, that, and then I can decide if I'm going to engage in whatever, wow. Kevin: The first thing  Andy: I think of when you say that is, could we take, let's say the national plumbing code and use it to help understand what the requirements are for irrigators as it relates to the national plumbing code on what you can and can't do and what the laws and regulations are.  Kevin: Theoretically. Yeah, you could. Kevin: Wow. Your art. Don't forget your art. Like, you know, there's a code inspectors, like even you guys probably don't totally know, like, Where that line is, and it would make me a little nervous, um, to do that, but I bet you'd get some pretty meaningful output from it. Um, it would be an interesting test actually. Kevin: And just maybe  Andy: a summary format, like, Hey, can you summarize the national plumbing code and what irrigation companies should know are responsible for, you know, in a  Kevin: summary. So I literally did something like this. It was an OSHA regulation for scissor lift safety. And, um, I put in the OSHA reg and I asked it questions about like, this is not something I was doing as a hobby. Kevin: There's, I have a client who is in this world, just to be clear that I, yeah. You  Andy: weren't just going to rent a, yeah,  Kevin: a lift and go out there. But I was, I was, I was. Clean your windows. About like, you know, I have this situation, like there's a two 20, um, junction right here. Like how far away does the scissor lift need to be? Kevin: And it did an ad, it did a very good job. And I think let's think ahead a little bit. Well, what, like this is all cool. Right. But. Man, this is going to be powerful. Like you imagine that you're an onsite contractor and you've run into X, Y, and Z scenario, like right on your phone, like, Hey, I've run into this. Kevin: You know, there's a T junction of whatever flow rate. And how does this apply to, um, you know, the code of. Peoria, Illinois and flow rates that will yeah, no doubt about it. Right.  Andy: Exactly. So today, uh, we've got something called friction loss, uh, friction loss charts. So those listening likely know what a friction loss chart is. Andy: It'll tell you what the PSI loss is per hundred feet based on a specific flow rate and a specific pipe. And if somebody were out in the field today, it's very hard to have all of those things memorized. It's actually. probably impossible to have them all recalled in your head, but just to be able to ask, ask it, Hey, what's the PSI loss on 2. Andy: 5 inch PVC pipe or a hundred feet. Cause you want to make a change to your design. You need some quick engineering facts.  Kevin: Sounds interesting. That's going to be a thing. It will, it may already be like, that's, this is changing. So, so fast. I mean, I literally was in the middle of the presentation and when Andy and I were in Vegas and a new feature was released in GPT. Kevin: As I refreshed my screen, and I was like, Oh, that's new. Yeah, it's, it's very hard to keep up with. Um, and the possibilities are virtually endless. So, yeah. So what other things? So business businesses, you all have a bunch of customers. You could dump your customer data into it and ask it to visualize it and visualize where the clusters, you know, you have sales staff that are out and they're, they're covering things. Kevin: Um, It's a bit of a lift to do some sort of geographic sales analysis of how effective you're being. But if you dump the data in and you can tell it to visualize, um, where all your customers are, like almost do like word cloud type type. Deals, it'll do that. You can see that, you know, 85022, like you're doing really well in that zip code. Kevin: So kudos to that salesperson. But these other zip codes, you know, they're not, or maybe they have a lot of customers, but revenue is lower. Identify  Andy: opportunities. That was my next thought is I think that. Contractors probably have revenue per customer because that's the account. They may not have profitability per customer because they may not job cost down to that level of detail. Andy: But could you, you know, do what you just said? Say, show me geographically where, you know, a majority of our revenue comes from or where our profit comes from.  Kevin: You absolutely could, and easily, easily you could. Major caveat. You're putting your data out there, and you've got to decide if you care. Um, I have a very practical, uh, attitude about this. Kevin: That... There. The, the LLMs are not in the business of yielding your data, but there is evidence that they are porous at the moment. So if you put highly sensitive data in there that you know, the formula for Coke or something like that, it is possible that the MO model. maybe training itself on that. So if somebody somewhere then asks for the formula for Coke, um, since you've put it in there, it can connect the dots, but we're not talking about,  Andy: so you might not want to disclose the name or the address, but maybe just the zip code. Andy: And that might be good enough. The first column was a zip code.  Kevin: So, but I'm, I'm not too stressed about it. You can turn some of these tracking features off and the training features off. But somebody would have to. Like the data would have to be meaningful, right? That, that, that somebody would be interested in it and like be able to put it together and whatnot. Kevin: So know that and you're going to start to see micro LLMs develop. Um, I don't think in this scale of business so much, but in medium sized businesses, you're going to start to see captive this is just Kevin pontificating, but you're going to start to see captive LLMs such that they are walled. Such that the organization can play with the LLM, but it's not necessarily getting out into the corpus of the world. Andy: I mean, I think it, uh, you're right, is we don't know how the data could be used now, but if, if the engine, if that's what you call it, the, the machine ends up with, if everybody uploads all of their sales data by zip code, then potentially the machine knows where people are spending money on outdoor, you know, services. Andy: So if we had a new, business we wanted to sell into a brand new greenfield market. It's a startup and we could ask it, show me the areas that spend the most on irrigation systems and it could provide that to us. Then we would have a target on how to go sell holiday lights or ponds or landscape lighting or something else, patios. Kevin: Yeah, we could. And it's pulling from all kinds of different data sources as well. So, um, so other practical things. So let's talk about images.  Andy: I was gonna say, um, that's what I wanted to get into next, just briefly, because we are kind of running out of time. But could we talk a little bit about images? Andy: Sure,  Kevin: uh, so In much the same way that the language models can predict what word comes next, image models do the same thing on a pixel level. So they're predicting, based on their neural network, what could actually come out next. And this can allow you to enter prompts, in a similar way as GPT, into a model like MidJourney. Kevin: is, uh, the one that I prefer, but there's also Dolly, uh, stable diffusion. There's a few, a few others that are out there that allow you to visualize things. So here you've done your blog. Um, now you need, uh, an image to go along with the blog. You could go to Getty or one of the other image provider things and find a dude squatting next to a sprinkler. Kevin: Or you could ask the The image generator to come up with, you know, middle aged guy working on a sprinkler in their yard mountains in the background and come up with a plausible image that you can use very, very quickly. That's adapted to what you need on a professional and you and I did  Andy: this. Briefly, like with a five, a five minute, you know, demo. Andy: And I'm, I'm curious, do you still have the copy of that image that we created with  Kevin: AI? Which one that does the discord image? Yeah, I do.  Andy: Yeah. Cause maybe what we could do is if you could email that to me, I will, you know what, I may use it as the cover of this article. I'm not article, but of this podcast, uh, on sprinkler nerds so that you guys can see an example of an AI generated image that Kevin made with me with a couple prompts. Andy: So if we still have it, let's, let's  Kevin: pull it up on my screen. So it's, uh, yeah, cool. Um, so it's, it's like a guy, I think, what's the, what's the prompt? Let me read the prompt. It was, uh, If you're  Andy: listening to this on Apple podcast or Spotify or something to see the cover art, I think you will need to go to this episode on sprinklernerd. Andy: com. That's where you'll see the actual graphic that Kevin's talking about.  Kevin: So the prompt is 30 year old energetic man checking a sprinkler in a deep green lawn. Nikon photorealistic and the trigger there is I'm trying to get it. It knows what a Nikon photorealistic image should look like, so it's not going to be some wild cartoon like, you know, psychedelic type thing. Kevin: It's trying to get it to be as real as possible. And sure enough, there's a guy squatting next to a sprinkler that is pretty well unusable. Now, from a processing perspective, you know, just let's just talk more work a day like you don't know what's going on. I, I've always advised, so I guest lecture on the stuff, um, entrepreneurship in general. Kevin: And I've always told my classes that, you know, you need to know basic Photoshop if you want to be a, a group by base level entrepreneur, because if you're not a creative person, you're going to be beholden to those agencies and it takes a long time, even if you're outsourced. So you're waiting for the student. Kevin: So things like practical things, like I need to remove a background. So, you know, I see Andy's logo behind him. I need, I need a transparency of this logo. Like there's an app for that, that, you know, for basically nothing. You can go to remove BG and it's going to pull out the background or image correction or image resizing. Kevin: And what you're going to see is a lot of these tools are going to be baked into the image processing software, like. Photoshop and Illustrator. Uh, I highly recommend if you're graphically oriented that you check out Adobe Firefly, uh, because it is magic. Like. I want a picture of a deer. Okay, now let's put the deer in an alley. Kevin: Oh, let's make the alley dark and add a sign over this door. And it's just on the fly creating all of this stuff. Which should make any graphic design oriented person tremble in their boots because... The most graphic designers make their, most of their income off of the stupid little stuff. The image correction and things. Kevin: It's not the big creative projects. And you're going to see that's going to be an industry that's going to be highly disrupted as a result of this. But yeah, even  Andy: Canva today is really disruptive, but not nearly what you're talking about. But Canva  Kevin: will implement this stuff too. So you can also do video voiceover. Kevin: I mean, be very afraid about voiceover and deep fake potential. Like we're not going to get political, but the next few years in this country should be very, very interesting. That way it's an election cycle and we're going to see all kinds of crazy stuff. And just to get, you know, philosophical for a second, we're going to end up in a place where you can't trust things and that's not a good place to be at all. Kevin: But just know that you can replicate your own voice in 15 minutes. Like I do a lot of podcasts, my voice is out there. So I had this bit of an epiphany and I called my, you know, 83 year old mother and I said, look, it is entirely possible that somebody could call you with my voice and try and get access to your bank accounts. Kevin: Like. That is actually possible right now and I gave her a safe word, like, you know, if you ever feel weirded out, whether or not it's actually me, um, just ask and, um, you know, we can verify, right? Don't say your safe  Andy: word. Don't say it. Andy: That's a great tip, actually. I think I'll, I'll, uh, with my family, come up with a safe word for all of us in the event that somebody does this. I think that's a really good  Kevin: tip. And it's awful, but people, it's already happening where people will get calls from their kids. I've been kidnapped. You need to send, you know, 10 grand right now. Kevin: Like that is happening. Now the positive side is like you're very soon you're going to have the ability to have these virtual customer service agents that can actually talk to people. Um, it's also terrifying, but. Like that's, let's just stay on the positive, right? That these are, these are, these, we are going to be able to offer such a personalized experience to our customers that we are going to just be able to blow them away. Kevin: Like when you, right now you're busy, you're running around, you got all your crews, you maybe have one person answering your phone, maybe you have nobody answering your phone. The phone can be answered. Chats can be responded to like, this is an whole aspect of practical applications that you, you all should be thinking about that. Kevin: How can I, how can I create a better experience on a creepy experience, but a better experience for my customer using some of these tools to get them to what they need instead of the endless frustrating, like back and forth. So, so  Andy: this might be a good point. Two are a good time for me to mention. I would like to run an experiment. Andy: So if you've made it to the end of the episode here, I would like to run an experiment based on what Kevin just said about personalization. And I think I would like to I'm kind of just spitballing this as as I go. I'd like to put a form on my website. So let's just say I'm going to go with sprinkler. Andy: com forward slash Ink Works, I N K W O R K S. Ink Works. I'm gonna put a form there with a few questions, including your address and when you fill out the form, I'm gonna use one of Kevin's projects, ink works.ai to send you a personalized letter handwritten from me based on the input, personalized based on the inputs that you enter in the form. Andy: How's that  Kevin: sound? That sounds awesome. So, and that's, that's my, and  Andy: I'm going to pay for it. It comes with a fee and that's Kevin's project right now, inkworks. ai. So I'd like to actually test it in real time with you guys listening and, um, you know, give you, give you a taste of what Kevin's  Kevin: working on. So we do, we're using, uh, LLM technology to interpret messages. Kevin: And then we're using pen wielding robots to handwrite notes. So, let's imagine you did a big landscaping project for a customer. Like, you know you should send them a thank you note. Or a Christmas card, or whatever it is. But you never get around to it, because it's, it's, it's time consuming. Um, using Inkworks, you can produce that letter. Kevin: And it comes out handwritten, absolutely unique. Um, I of course have them piled around here. They look like they're written by... And, um, it's remarkable efficacy and very ironic that I'm using multiple layers of AI to create something that's so highly personalized specifically because people are craving that personalization that we're all bombarded by all of this information constantly with emails and SMS and all this stuff and people just ignore it and it's just going to get worse as AI continues to advance. Kevin: Um, so. Ironically that my, one of the first toeholds I have is doing something analog with something amazingly complex.  Andy: So great. So great. Can't wait to run this experiment. Uh, on that note, you know, Kevin does, uh, coach businesses in this field. If you would like to, uh, hire Kevin to, you know, help you with your business, coach your employees, give you tips. Andy: How can somebody reach out to you, Kevin?  Kevin: Yeah, the easiest is, uh, Kevin at www. inkworks. ai. Um. Or I'm relatively easy to find on, on LinkedIn. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm out there.  Andy: Very cool. Very cool. And hopefully we can maybe find a time to do a little online training as well. And again, visit sprinkler. com forward slash inkworks and let's test out Kevin's software. Andy: I'm really excited to do that. And. You know, Kevin, I think that from all the people who I have met that are into AI and use the tool, I don't think I've met someone as knowledgeable as yourself, and I really appreciate you sharing  Kevin: this with us today. Thank you. I'm clearly passionate about it. This is the future, guys. Kevin: Okay,  Andy: well, until our next AI conversation. Thanks so much, Kevin. Have a great one.  

This episode is available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.In this episode of the Contrarian Marketing Podcast, we discuss Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels, and the future of Meta, formerly known as Facebook.With TikTok taking headlines at the Mobile Apps Unlocked conference and Meta nowhere to be found, what does this mean for the future of tech companies? Can we really count them out? As Kevin says, "I think you can never ever count a tech company out, especially a tech company with tons of cash."They also delve into* The psychology behind contrarian marketing strategies * How Apple's VR headset might change the game for communication and productivity* Whether WhatsApp channels disrupt conventional brand marketing* If AI can change the playing field in searchJoin Kevin and Eli as they dissect these questions and much more!Transcript[00:00:00] Contrarian Marketing Podcast: Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels, and TikTok at Mobile Apps Unlocked[00:00:00] Kevin: Stop.[00:00:05] Eli: Hi, welcome to another episode of the Contrarian Marketing podcast where we give you ideas you might not be thinking about today.[00:00:11] Eli: We're talking about Apple's VR headset, WhatsApp channels and other news.[00:00:16] Eli: Eli, you just went to an event that is not the Apple WWDC.[00:00:21] Eli: Tell us about it.[00:00:22] Kevin: So I went to an event in Vegas call the Mobile Apps Unlocked conference and they did an interesting thing where they allowed all marketers who are not at agencies to go for free.[00:00:33] Kevin: So I'm not a big fan of paying 1000 $502,500 to go and attend a conference because if anything we've learned from the Pandemic, you could do a lot of learning without going anywhere.[00:00:44] Kevin: I go for the network, but I don't know necessarily if a network is worthwhile.[00:00:48] Kevin: So I don't really want to invest 1000 $502,500 in that conference because I can't go to that many.[00:00:52] Kevin: Like I would certainly do that for most the most awesome conference, but for a conference I've never heard of before or vaguely knew about, not sure I'd do that.[00:01:00] Kevin: But this conference was free for marketers.[00:01:02] Kevin: Obviously I had to pay my own travels in Las Vegas.[00:01:05] Kevin: It's called mobile apps.[00:01:06] Kevin: Unlocked.[00:01:06] Kevin: I think it was 1000 2000.[00:01:08] Eli: People talks about mobile.[00:01:10] Kevin: Of course, a lot of growth marketers there met fascinating people.[00:01:13] Kevin: But TikTok was a headline sponsor and they had dozens of TikTok employees.[00:01:18] Kevin: And they talked about all the things that TikTok does gaming, creative partnerships, a lot of things that go well beyond influencers.[00:01:26] Kevin: Dancing to the latest pop on TikTok videos, but really like how they integrate and how they monetize and how they can partner with creators.[00:01:34] Kevin: But what I felt was thought was fascinating was TikTok was headline sponsor.[00:01:38] Kevin: Facebook was not there.[00:01:40] Kevin: Meta was not there at all as a sponsor, as a booth, as anything, and they didn't even have any employees there.[00:01:47] Kevin: Now I get there are austere times at Meta, they're doing layoffs, maybe they are not out there as much as they used to be, but to not be there at all seemed fascinating to me.[00:01:57] WhatsApp and the future of Meta[00:01:57] Kevin: So we're going to talk today about WhatsApp which is a Meta company.[00:02:02] Kevin: But I think it's interesting that where Facebook is going and how they're going to retrench and how they're going to pivot.[00:02:08] Kevin: I think you can never ever count a tech company out, especially a tech company with tons of cash.[00:02:13] Kevin: Like how many times has Microsoft been counted out or how many times has even IBM been counted out?[00:02:18] Kevin: And then they came out there with Watson and you're like, oh, IBM is cool again.[00:02:21] Kevin: And people are saying maybe Google is behind the times because of chat JBT, lots of cash.[00:02:27] Kevin: So Facebook, certainly the usage of Facebook has been declining.[00:02:32] Kevin: I just saw this quote.[00:02:33] Kevin: I don't know if you watch Ted.[00:02:34] Eli: Lasso, of course, I just watched the last season of the third sorry, the last episode of the third season.[00:02:40] Eli: Yesterday.[00:02:40] Eli: I'm not going to spoil it.[00:02:41] Kevin: No, don't spoil it because I watched it.[00:02:43] Kevin: But we don't want to spoil it for our listeners.[00:02:44] Kevin: But did you see the part where Keeley got in trouble because she had a it wasn't a sex tape but it was just like a tape leak.[00:02:51] Eli: It was pretty close to sex tape.[00:02:53] Kevin: Yeah, close enough.[00:02:54] Kevin: Whatever.[00:02:54] Kevin: It's not real anyways.[00:02:55] Kevin: It's a show.[00:02:56] Kevin: And they told her that she had to put out her apology on the socials and they said you don't need to put it on Facebook because that's just for old people and rapists or something like that.[00:03:04] Eli: Pretty harsh.[00:03:05] Eli: Pretty harsh.[00:03:06] Kevin: That was pretty harsh.[00:03:07] Eli: I'm always a shoestring away from deleting my Facebook account and yet at the same time I am going to say that Meta's total number of users has gone to all time highs and I.[00:03:17] Kevin: Feel like Instagram and WhatsApp, but not through the Blue Facebook.[00:03:22] Eli: Well, not for us.[00:03:23] Eli: And I think even in the US they actually edit more Blue Facebook users.[00:03:27] Eli: But it's not our generation.[00:03:29] Eli: We're not the target audience of Facebook anymore.[00:03:31] Eli: I think it's I don't know about.[00:03:32] Kevin: You, but I am.[00:03:33] Kevin: I'm old.[00:03:34] Eli: Not that old.[00:03:35] Eli: Come on, it's not that bad.[00:03:36] Eli: We're going to talk a bit more about Meta in just a second.[00:03:39] Eli: There is some exciting news, especially for creators and for brands.[00:03:44] Apple Launches $3,500 VR Headset[00:03:44] Eli: But first we got to talk of course about the news of the day, maybe for me and not for Eli, which of course is that Apple has launched a $3,500 VR headset.[00:03:56] Eli: Now I got my own opinion about this, but I know Eli, you are the biggest Apple fan out there, so I'm going to let you speak first.[00:04:03] Kevin: So I used to be very anti Apple.[00:04:06] Kevin: I never purchased an Apple product, ever.[00:04:09] Kevin: I used a MacBook when I had a full time job because it was easier, of course.[00:04:14] Kevin: But when it came to purchasing products, I was never part of the cult of Mac or the cult of Apple.[00:04:19] Kevin: I've always had Android devices.[00:04:21] Kevin: My wife had an Apple device for some time and I didn't provide tech support for it when things happened.[00:04:26] Kevin: But I said if she was on an Android, I was going to be able to help it because I understood it.[00:04:29] Kevin: But I wasn't going to go learn an Apple system.[00:04:31] Kevin: So I've never purchased any Apple products.[00:04:33] Kevin: But I did recently purchase an iPad and this is my first Apple product and it's sucker man.[00:04:39] Kevin: I think it is a slippery slope to an iPhone, which is a slippery slope to maybe a MacBook, which next thing you know we're going to be doing this on a VR headset.[00:04:47] Kevin: So I typically think that a lot of what Apple does is extremely high end tech.[00:04:53] Kevin: It's not necessarily mainstream.[00:04:55] Kevin: That's my first opinion of the VR headset.[00:04:58] Kevin: I think it surprises me how many Apple watches have been sold because again, it's an expensive high end tool that you don't necessarily need if you're just trying to tell the time or get notifications.[00:05:10] Apple VR headset and its future impact[00:05:10] Kevin: Love to hear your thoughts on Apple VR headset and how you think it'll be used, especially at that price tag.[00:05:15] Kevin: I mean that price tag, it almost needs to be used expensed by companies rather than individuals.[00:05:21] Eli: The first thought is who is going to buy that?[00:05:25] Eli: And I think this is fulfilling a couple of purposes.[00:05:30] Eli: One is for Apple to have something out there.[00:05:35] Eli: I do believe that in the future we'll use VR and AR.[00:05:39] Eli: I don't believe that future is that close yet.[00:05:42] Eli: This is a high end consumer product for the richest of the rich, for maybe a few hotels or experiences that might provide this.[00:05:51] Eli: But this is not a yeah, you know, and maybe people said this about the $1,000 iPhone as well, but I don't see this being something that millions of people will buy just yet.[00:06:01] Eli: Maybe in the future when the price comes down and the price will come down.[00:06:04] Eli: The second thought is what's the use case here?[00:06:08] Eli: And it's really only a few use cases.[00:06:10] Eli: One of them is games.[00:06:12] Eli: And I don't think there is a killer game out there yet that you need these glasses for.[00:06:17] Eli: I might be wrong, I'll stand corrected.[00:06:19] Eli: I haven't tried them out yet, but I don't see this killer game yet.[00:06:22] Eli: The other one is sports events where you might be in the middle of a baseball field and that's going to be very attractive to people.[00:06:28] Eli: And then the third one, and that to me is the one that has the most utility and value is the office.[00:06:35] Eli: I think VR and AR is the best way to foster connections when people work remotely and that's where meta ism, is innovating heavily and I think that's their best trot.[00:06:46] Eli: Right.[00:06:47] Eli: I think VR and AR glasses are going to come through a work setting.[00:06:51] Eli: They're going to be a productivity tool to foster connection and to improve the experience you have when you communicate with people.[00:06:57] Eli: So that's kind of the first thought.[00:06:59] Eli: Again, the last thought that I'm going to say, which I think is a bit more contrarian, is typically innovation comes from the bottom up.[00:07:08] Eli: It's cheap and affordable, it comes from startups.[00:07:11] Eli: But I don't think startups are yet at a place to build affordable and good enough VR AR headsets.[00:07:18] Eli: So it has to be Apple.[00:07:20] Eli: And I think Apple actually has the best trot at making this a truly broad customer or consumer success.[00:07:28] Eli: But that time is not yet.[00:07:30] Eli: So I don't think they're going to make money on this in the next five years, but I think they're going to might set themselves up to crush it over the next ten years.[00:07:38] Kevin: Yeah, I think it's fascinating that they're trying this after Google failed.[00:07:41] Kevin: I mean, Google Glass failed is useless.[00:07:43] Kevin: Have you ever tried the google Glass?[00:07:45] Eli: I have not.[00:07:46] Eli: But Google is not a good hardware company.[00:07:49] Eli: They're not a consumer hardware company.[00:07:50] Eli: So this was a mood shot, and Apple has tons of experience in selling to consumers.[00:07:56] Kevin: Okay.[00:07:57] Kevin: And now Facebook tried, but Oculus is not saving Facebook as a company.[00:08:01] Kevin: So it's just interesting that Apple is trying this when there have been some notable failures.[00:08:08] Kevin: Oculus was not driven towards the business market, so maybe, maybe that's different.[00:08:14] Kevin: But again, $3,500 for a remote work tool when all of a sudden apple included companies are requiring that their employees come back to the office.[00:08:24] Kevin: Kind of interesting.[00:08:25] Kevin: It is.[00:08:26] Eli: I heard that the quality must be amazing.[00:08:28] Eli: It must be absolutely outstanding.[00:08:30] Eli: Again, I haven't tried it out yet, so I'm going to reserve final judgment, but those are the early thoughts you already started.[00:08:35] WhatsApp Channels: A New Way for Brands and Creators to Connect with Users[00:08:35] Eli: We mentioned Meta twice in this conversation.[00:08:37] Eli: Once with the TikTok event you went to, and the other time the Metaverse and all the hardware that they built with Oculus.[00:08:45] Eli: Now there's a new interesting development from the Meta side, which is on WhatsApp, and that is WhatsApp channels.[00:08:53] Eli: So in essence, WhatsApp channels are simply channels you can follow.[00:08:57] Eli: They're going to be interesting for brands and creators to basically broadcast their content.[00:09:01] Eli: And I think that could be an interesting channel for brands moving forward.[00:09:06] Eli: First of all, because WhatsApp has very broad adoption, I have to fact check myself and look at the latest numbers, but I think they're not too far away from a billion people.[00:09:15] Eli: And there are not that many channels out there.[00:09:19] Eli: We recently spoke about innovative marketing channels.[00:09:21] Eli: You're going to find the episode in the show notes, but there aren't that many channels out there that aren't super crowded.[00:09:26] Eli: And this seems to be more of a channel where you can select the content you get, but it is similar to an email where you get the content straight to your inbox, or in this case, straight to your WhatsApp phone.[00:09:38] Eli: So I'm bullish while there's not a lot of information out there, got to keep an eye on this one.[00:09:44] Kevin: Yeah, I think.[00:09:45] Kevin: WhatsApp is an underutilized asset for Meta?[00:09:49] Kevin: For Facebook?[00:09:50] Kevin: They bought it for 19 billion.[00:09:51] Kevin: I think it was 19 billion and everyone thought it was insane, but it was an amazing purchase.[00:09:56] Kevin: And they've really grown that platform.[00:09:59] Kevin: But the reason I say it's underutilized is because they're not monetizing it at all.[00:10:05] Kevin: They've tried to put ads, I think in India, maybe they injected ads, but they're not monetizing it directly.[00:10:11] Kevin: And there are a lot of different uses of it where they could inject themselves more into some sort of monetization strategy, but they're not at all.[00:10:19] Kevin: And then one thing that is interesting about the one way they are using it, of course, is backlash.[00:10:24] Kevin: But again, people are using the people that use Blue, Facebook.[00:10:27] Kevin: So when they log into the regular Facebook app and they're people you may what do they call people you may know, or people you should know or people you should connect with or whatever it is you get freaked out by who shows up.[00:10:39] Kevin: They're like, oh, that's my ex boss, or that's my ex girlfriend, or that's the person that tried to kill me, or something like that.[00:10:45] Kevin: That's actually feeding off the context that you've uploaded through WhatsApp.[00:10:50] Kevin: That's the way they're using it.[00:10:51] Kevin: And it's helping, in theory, build that social graph in Facebook and maybe in Instagram too, but otherwise they're not directly monetizing.[00:10:59] Kevin: So it's great to see an innovation within WhatsApp that allows them to do it.[00:11:03] Kevin: There are things within WhatsApp, like there are businesses that post statuses.[00:11:06] Kevin: They post the sales and you follow our business, here's our sale.[00:11:10] Kevin: Facebook is not injecting themselves into that process at all and trying to help promote that status, helping to gather followers for that status.[00:11:18] Kevin: There's so many things they could do.[00:11:19] Kevin: So it's great to see Facebook investing in there.[00:11:22] Kevin: And like we said earlier, don't count them out.[00:11:25] Kevin: They've got lots of cash, they've got a huge network between all of their different platforms.[00:11:29] Kevin: They have many, many billions of users.[00:11:31] Kevin: So lots of potential there.[00:11:33] Eli: Yeah, thanks for fact checking me here.[00:11:35] Eli: I just want to correct myself.[00:11:37] Eli: I said they're close to a billion users.[00:11:39] Eli: Actually.[00:11:39] Eli: They actually have over 2 billion users.[00:11:41] Eli: So massive channel, I'll be the first one to start broadcasting there because I'm hungry for a new channel where I can be early and where I can establish a a presence.[00:11:52] Eli: The thing that I'm going to be most curious about is the discovery aspect.[00:11:56] Eli: So how are people going to find new creators and brands to follow?[00:11:59] Eli: Because that will be its own little optimization game.[00:12:02] Eli: Call it WhatsApp SEO or maybe don't.[00:12:04] Kevin: Well, one of the things I love about Facebook is the ability to market and to use interest targeting.[00:12:11] Kevin: So I would love if they could plug that into WhatsApp.[00:12:14] Kevin: And you can get more followers for your channel.[00:12:16] Kevin: You can get more people to see your channel, or more people to see your statuses or add to your groups and do all that with just Facebook marketing.[00:12:23] Kevin: And I think that's great.[00:12:25] Kevin: Facebook is the number one channel for doing interest targeting because they've got so much information, except with the usage declining, it's harder and harder to target people.[00:12:35] Kevin: Again, like we said earlier, I don't log into Facebook that often.[00:12:38] Kevin: I don't use instagram.[00:12:39] Kevin: So yes, Facebook has my data.[00:12:42] Kevin: You can in theory target me, but I'm not seeing those ads if I'm not on Facebook.[00:12:45] Kevin: Facebook does actually have other ad or other ways of showing ads, and they have partnerships with apps, but it's far more limited.[00:12:53] Kevin: If you don't have those apps, you don't have those gains.[00:12:55] Kevin: But again, if they can get you on Facebook, they have almost everyone on WhatsApp they can get you on Instagram, then they can target you and maybe they'll revive Oculus now that Apple showed them there's potential there.[00:13:06] Kevin: And they can inject ads into Oculus too.[00:13:09] Kevin: And then you can have an immersive experience with an advertiser speaking about ads and broadcasting.[00:13:15] Missing the boat: GameStop and CNN's failed attempts to adapt[00:13:15] Eli: CNN just fired their CEO and there is another company who also fired their CEO, and that is GameStop.[00:13:22] Eli: And there are interesting similarities between both of them.[00:13:25] Eli: They both kind of missed the boats, but from different ends of the spectrum.[00:13:29] Eli: So GameStop, they tried too much contrarian stuff.[00:13:35] Eli: They tried to save their fading or eroding business with a crypto platform or a blockchain platform that went up in smokes.[00:13:43] Eli: Business has been dying for years and nobody has really been able to turn it around.[00:13:47] Eli: And then CNN, on the other hand, they've been moving too slow.[00:13:51] Eli: They weren't able to really establish themselves as a streaming platform.[00:13:55] Eli: They wrote off a 300 million US dollar check where they tried CNN Plus as a streaming platform and then overnight pulled the plug from that.[00:14:03] Eli: And now the CEO has to kind of pay the price for not establishing themselves and CNN on the streaming horizon.[00:14:10] Eli: Eli, how have both of these brands missed a boat?[00:14:13] Eli: I mean, from your perspective, what is your opinion?[00:14:16] Kevin: I'm going to be super contrarian here.[00:14:18] Kevin: I think both of these businesses don't need to exist at all.[00:14:21] Kevin: I think they're hanging on to an old vestige of something else that we just don't need.[00:14:26] Kevin: I mean, GameStop is a retail store in a world where many people buy things online.[00:14:31] Kevin: Do you need a GameStop when you can even go to GameStop.com?[00:14:34] Kevin: A Sharper Image, like they went out of business, but sharperimage.com still exists.[00:14:38] Kevin: You can still buy Sharp brand, it still exists as a brand, but you just don't need Sharper Image stores.[00:14:41] Kevin: I think the same with CNN.[00:14:44] Kevin: There's a lot you can say around the politics of CNN.[00:14:47] Kevin: I think they thrived on Trump.[00:14:49] Kevin: You wanted that narrative of anti Trump a couple of years ago already, that Trump has not been president.[00:14:55] Kevin: Now, is there a need for media?[00:14:58] Kevin: Is there a need for 24 hours media that you're going to watch and that's profitable now?[00:15:03] Kevin: I won't argue against the need for media in general.[00:15:05] Kevin: You're not going to have TikTok influencers and Twitter thought leaders and LinkedIn influencers flying to the interesting places in the world and riding in tanks alongside the Ukrainian army.[00:15:16] Kevin: That's not going to happen.[00:15:18] Kevin: You need the media.[00:15:19] Kevin: You need a funded, official, accredited, organized media to do that.[00:15:25] Kevin: So media should exist.[00:15:26] Kevin: But do you need to watch it 24 hours?[00:15:28] Kevin: Do you need a talk show to digest the latest thing that maybe happened in politics, when you can sit on Twitter and digest it just the same while you're multitasking, while you're supposed to be at work, you don't need to watch that online or on TV.[00:15:41] Kevin: Even worse, do you even need to watch it streaming?[00:15:44] Kevin: Do you want to catch up on the latest argument between two talking heads, five talking heads, or however many talking heads they have, when again, you could just go on Twitter and participate in it.[00:15:54] Kevin: So I think that CNN is they've been around for a very long time.[00:15:58] Kevin: They popularized the idea of 24 hours media when there was no 24 hours media.[00:16:03] Kevin: And I think now do you really need 24 hours media?[00:16:06] Kevin: So maybe that's what CNN struggling with.[00:16:08] Kevin: Is it's an entertainment platform?[00:16:11] Kevin: We had an episode on streaming.[00:16:13] Kevin: Look at what HBO did.[00:16:14] Kevin: HBO merged into Max and I just got a notification.[00:16:18] Kevin: Do you have Xfinity or what do you have for Internet?[00:16:20] Eli: There xfinity.[00:16:21] Kevin: Yeah.[00:16:22] Kevin: Okay, so did you get an email from Xfinity saying they're pulling peacock out of Xfinity?[00:16:27] Eli: No, but what is peacock again?[00:16:29] Kevin: Exactly.[00:16:30] Kevin: So there's a million streaming platforms.[00:16:31] Kevin: I got an email this morning saying, sorry to tell you, but you no longer get peacock for free.[00:16:36] Kevin: There's a good reminder that I even had peacock for free from Xfinity because they're both owned by NBC, owned by GE.[00:16:41] Kevin: I think it's a struggle, like all these streaming platforms, netflix, crackdown on, password sharing.[00:16:46] Kevin: So do you need a CNN subscription?[00:16:48] Kevin: Is there even a reason that you need to watch or even pay for a CNN streaming subscription?[00:16:54] Kevin: So I think that bigger question is, should they exist?[00:16:57] Eli: It depends on the content.[00:16:58] Eli: They had.[00:16:59] Eli: For example, one show with Scott Galloway, and I would have loved to pay for that because the guy is genius.[00:17:06] Eli: However, I think there's going to be consolidation at some point where all these streaming networks are going to be facilitated by YouTube, TV or someone else.[00:17:14] Eli: I don't think all of these are going to survive and people are not going to pay for all of them, at least not constantly.[00:17:20] Eli: You might pay for a show for a while and then you got to cancel your subscription again.[00:17:24] Eli: So that's going to be challenging.[00:17:26] Breaking News and Dopamine Addiction[00:17:26] Eli: But what's interesting, and one thing that I want to highlight is how breaking news and this kind of news real where you constantly have news and then a few ads in between.[00:17:36] Eli: There was the original dopamine factory before Twitter came out, before these social platforms come out.[00:17:43] Eli: And I'm just tired, man.[00:17:46] Eli: I'm tired out of the constant dopamine cycles.[00:17:49] Eli: I'm tired of Twitter, I'm tired of endless scroll.[00:17:53] Eli: And breaking news to me is just endless scroll once the news broke their old news.[00:17:58] Eli: And so basically, people watching that, I see it, I know people who watch that stuff constantly.[00:18:04] Eli: And are they younger than 80?[00:18:07] Eli: Slightly, but not much.[00:18:09] Eli: That's exactly the point, right?[00:18:11] Eli: That's kind of the dopamine addiction of the older generation and much older generation.[00:18:15] Eli: And so they're going to die out of it.[00:18:18] Eli: They're missing addressing younger audiences and bringing new audiences on board.[00:18:22] Discussing AI-Powered Search and The Future of SEO[00:18:22] Eli: So let's wrap up, speaking about one company that is struggling with something very similar, and that is Google and Alphabet.[00:18:29] Eli: Now, YouTube, to be fair, is incredibly hot with the teens and the young generation.[00:18:34] Eli: But Google is increasingly replaced by other platforms like TikTok.[00:18:39] Eli: I see.[00:18:40] Eli: It my fiance's sister, she's in her early 20s.[00:18:43] Eli: She searches so much more stuff on TikTok.[00:18:45] Eli: And I'm not here to say that TikTok is the SEO killer or the Google killer.[00:18:49] Eli: This platform is struggling to address and keep young audiences as well.[00:18:54] Eli: And they recently launched their search Genera Experience, which is based on AI, which we just recorded a full episode about.[00:19:01] Eli: But Eli, a lot has changed since we recorded that episode a week ago.[00:19:06] Eli: What's your freshest take on this?[00:19:08] Kevin: So I actually think that Google is going to win.[00:19:11] Kevin: I think because they own the platform, they have all the users, they can keep getting people back onto the platform from all their other, from Android, from Gmail, from Sheets and Docs and all the other things that Google does.[00:19:24] Kevin: But I'm very bullish on Google's future.[00:19:26] Kevin: I think what they're doing with Generative AI, it's buggy right now, but it will improve.[00:19:31] Kevin: They launched an update to Bard, which is what's powering Generative Experiences to begin with, which you can now do logic.[00:19:38] Kevin: And in this blog post, which we'll link in the show notes, they explain System One thinking.[00:19:41] Kevin: System Two, which is based on Daniel Kahneman's Nobel Prize winning economics theory, which is System One is your initial emotional response, and System Two is more thought out.[00:19:52] Kevin: So system one, where system two is more logical.[00:19:56] Kevin: So system one is barred.[00:19:58] Kevin: It's just language like it gives you a response, it may or may not be correct.[00:20:01] Kevin: System Two can do logic and that's where Google thrives.[00:20:05] Kevin: So Chat GBT is competing on the system one.[00:20:07] Kevin: It's just a large language model, can give an answer.[00:20:10] Kevin: System Two is where Google's been great at this for the last two decades.[00:20:13] Kevin: And they're doing logic like you can ask it math questions, it's pulling from knowledge graph, it's using the massive superpowers of Google.[00:20:22] Kevin: So I think that's where they win.[00:20:24] Kevin: I think there's no competitor right now that's as good at both of those as Google.[00:20:28] Kevin: It as long as they don't lose market share.[00:20:30] Kevin: I do think Google wins, even with their buggy product.[00:20:33] Eli: I think nobody can be Google and Search.[00:20:36] Eli: I much more think that other companies are going to try to fragment search and kind of break it apart.[00:20:42] Eli: For example, Microsoft.[00:20:44] Eli: I've changed my opinion.[00:20:45] Eli: I don't think they're trying to win with Bing.[00:20:47] Eli: I think they might have a chance to win with Chat GPT, which is a completely different experience that now also features Bing search results, or they're just going to bring the whole damn thing into the taskbar at the bottom of your screen.[00:21:00] Eli: They might break it out of the browser and bring it to the operating system level.[00:21:04] Eli: So there's a whole lot of interesting stuff going on with AI search and SGE.[00:21:10] Eli: But I think one of the biggest trends that most people don't have on the radar is that you might just not need the browser anymore.[00:21:16] Eli: It might live natively in an app, or in Google Sheets, or again in your taskbar.[00:21:21] Eli: And so I think the biggest chance for other companies is to change the game.[00:21:25] Eli: Instead of trying to beat Google ad it.[00:21:26] Eli: Google has one search period.[00:21:28] Eli: But the question is now, how can you change the field?[00:21:31] Kevin: How can you change the playing field?[00:21:33] Kevin: Absolutely.[00:21:34] Kevin: And you're right.[00:21:35] Kevin: I don't think anybody's going to be Google.[00:21:37] Kevin: I think the playing field is changing underneath Google, and they're now catching up and changing with it.[00:21:43] Kevin: A recent newsletter, I talked about how this is what Google's always been doing.[00:21:47] Kevin: These are featured snippets.[00:21:48] Kevin: These are knowledge graph.[00:21:50] Kevin: They had LLM to begin with, but they didn't want to release it for two reasons.[00:21:53] Kevin: One, innovator's dilemma, because they would kill their business model, and they're definitely hurting their ads for the people that are in the beta.[00:22:00] Kevin: And the second reason is that it's risky.[00:22:02] Kevin: I mean, when it comes to Knowledge Graph, most of knowledge Graph is correct.[00:22:06] Kevin: I know, like, you search certain people, like one search, I think Rand Fishkin, there was a picture of Neil Patel that was based on knowledge Graph is broken.[00:22:13] Kevin: But for the most part, knowledge Graph is accurate.[00:22:15] Kevin: It pulls off a structured data.[00:22:17] Kevin: LLM is not LLM can say offensive, wrong things.[00:22:21] Kevin: Like it can give you the wrong advice and you can follow and do serious harm to yourself.[00:22:26] Kevin: So they can't control it because they don't know what's out there.[00:22:27] Kevin: So I get why they didn't release it, but now that they are releasing it and they are working with it, I think they will win.[00:22:34] Eli: We're green too much, Eli.[00:22:35] Eli: We got to change that.[00:22:36] Eli: But one area or kind of one place?[00:22:39] Kevin: You're wrong.[00:22:39] Kevin: You're just wrong.[00:22:42] Eli: Do better now.[00:22:43] Eli: So much better.[00:22:44] Dealing with disagreements and building strong business partnerships[00:22:44] Eli: One area where we're not agreeing all the time, or where we disagree more, is our new Slack Group.[00:22:48] Eli: Eli, you want to talk about that secretly?[00:22:51] Kevin: Not secretly.[00:22:52] Kevin: We quietly discussed this a couple of weeks ago in an episode.[00:22:56] Kevin: We want to launch a Slack Group that would help consultants become better consultants.[00:23:00] Kevin: We have the slack group.[00:23:01] Kevin: We're going to put up a link where you can apply to be a part of this.[00:23:04] Kevin: We want to make sure it adds as much value to everyone that is in the Slack Group, and of course ourselves too, that we just want to have a high caliber of the best consultants out there.[00:23:12] Kevin: We have not yet defined what the cutoff will be, but this will be for really, the best consultants.[00:23:19] Kevin: And just to give a sneak preview to an upcoming podcast, the greatest of all time, the Goat of consulting.[00:23:26] Kevin: Alan Weiss, who published, I think, six best selling books on consulting, the Million Dollar Consulting or Consultants book, which is the first one he came out with in the late eighty s I learned everything from and he's had six updates to that book.[00:23:38] Kevin: So we just interviewed him for a podcast.[00:23:41] Kevin: This is our very first interview ever.[00:23:43] Kevin: So if you're not subscribed and you're just listening to this podcast for the first time, this one's coming.[00:23:47] Kevin: This is going to be the best episode we have.[00:23:49] Eli: Man, I'm still on a high from that conversation.[00:23:52] Eli: There's going to be so much we have to record an episode about that episode, just digesting and commenting on all the nuggets that he got out.[00:23:59] Eli: So, yeah, everyone look forward to this.[00:24:01] Eli: That was an absolutely mind blowing conversation with many things he never mentioned before, many fun stories about tanks and trains and jeopardy.[00:24:13] Eli: It's going to be a wild one.[00:24:14] Eli: So, yeah, Eli, this is a wrap.[00:24:16] Eli: Looking forward to talk to you again next week.[00:24:17] Kevin: Thanks, John.[00:24:18] Kevin and Eli Discuss Contrarian Marketing Strategies[00:24:18] Eli: And now it's your turn.[00:24:19] Eli: Head over to Contrarianmarketingpodcast.com and subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to get a summary of today's episode, key takeaways and community content.[00:24:28] Eli: And while you're there, go to today's episode and leave your opinion in the comments.[00:24:32] Eli: We'll feature the best thoughts in the newsletter and on the podcast podcast.[00:24:35] Eli: Also, if you like today's episode, please feel free to leave five stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcast.[00:24:41] Eli: As always, thanks so much for tuning in and here next week. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.contrarianmarketingpodcast.com

Kevin: Well, welcome back, everybody, for another episode of Coping. Kathy and are happy to be here with you guys today. Kathy: Yes. So welcome everyone. Last episode, we talked about grief in the four parts of ourselves: our body, our heart, our mind and our spirit. Kevin: That's right. And in our quest for wholeness and reintegration, we begin coping with our loss in one of two main ways. And that's what we want to talk about today. Kathy: That sounds really interesting. I'm really eager to hear more. Let's get started. Kathy: So you mentioned that we often cope with our loss in one of two ways. Can you explain more? Kevin: Yeah. So in my work with families and individuals at end of life, I have begun to realize that there's two main coping strategies when it comes to talking about our grief. There are two types of grievers. The first are the stuffers. The stuffers are those that hold their grief inside. Now, they do this for all sorts of reasons, but some of the reasons I've heard include it's too painful to talk about. I'm afraid if I start, I'm not going to be able to stop talking about it. In my culture, my family, my religion, expressing emotion is frowned upon. And of course, there's those social stigmas like men don't cry or I'm trying to hold it all together and be strong for my family. Kevin: See, the main obstacle for Stuffers, their tendency is to internalize their loss through silence, hoping to digest their pain. In other words, if I hold in my pain. I can hold myself together. And of course, when it comes to grieving, this can be very counterproductive. Kathy: That sounds exactly like me. I know that I always go inward when I'm dealing with anything, but when there's a loss, since my brain is in overdrive, trying to figure out how to cope and find a way to move forward, I am, what you just said, attempting to digest my pain. And manage it. Right. Kevin: You're showing your strength through what you can handle. Kathy: Sure. Kevin: But the challenge with that is that grief needs to be processed. Kathy: So would you say that you're a Stuffer too? Kevin: Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. And actually, I am not a stuffer. I'm the other kind of griever. So the second kind of griever are the sharers. Right. So you're a stuffer, but I'm actually a sharer. So the sharer expresses their grief any chance that they can get. And they do this for all sorts of reasons. But some of the most common reasons or the ones that I've experienced myself or I've heard are “I'm being vulnerable and authentic. That's why I'm talking about my grief”. Or, “I don't want to be superficial. That's why I talk about the hard things”. Or, “I like connecting with people. We should all talk about this stuff more often”. Or, “sharing my story makes me feel less alone.” Kevin: You see, the main obstacle and tendency for sharers is to externalize their loss through story, hoping to diffuse the pain. In other words, if I get my pain out, I can get back to myself. So where you see, the main tendency of stuffers is to utilize silence and hoping that they can digest the pain, it's the sharer who tries to externalize their loss through story, hoping to diffuse the pain. What we need to move away from is the silence or the story. Move away from trying to digest or diffuse and try to rethink about how we can process our grief. Kathy: Right, but what I don't understand the question is what's wrong with sharing your story? Isn't that what the whole goal would be? Kevin: That's a great question. There's nothing wrong with sharing your story, but we all know those people who share the same story over and over and over again, especially as it's related to somebody that they've lost or something that they've lost or a change that's happened in their life. We refer to these people as being "story stuck". I think we've all been there in our lives, though there may be something in our life right now that we're stories stuck in. And what happens is that we're telling the story again and again, feeling the emotions, the highs and lows of the experience, but not processing the underlying pain and the trauma that that story caused in our lives and the identity shift that's come from that loss. Kevin: And so it really requires, whenever you're getting into story of stuckness, it usually requires some type of professional help so that somebody who's trained in processing that story to help really break it down and get you to that meaning making in order to find a way forward through it. Kathy: Okay, so that makes sense. So for the sharers, story stuck is the issue, but for stuffers like me, how do I break my cycle? Is there something that I can work on? Kevin: Yeah, so I think it's really just about building a practice of externalizing that pain, and a few simple ways to do that is through journaling. Oftentimes the stuffers are naturally introverted, and so journaling is a practice that doesn't feel so daunting and overwhelming to talk about your feelings. You get to process through writing. I think also stuffers can practice externalizing that loss through sharing with a trusted friend, inviting them to coffee or a phone call, just to say, hey, I want to share this thing going on with you. I just need you to listen. I'm not asking for advice or for help. I just want to take some time to share with you what's on my heart today. And I'm not even sure exactly what I'm feeling or how I'm doing. Kevin: I just want to tell you what's on my mind and have a space to do that. And I know that you're a safe person who could hold that space with me. So I think whether with a trusted friend or in a journal or if you feel like you've attempted those two things and you're still feeling a little bit stuck or feeling silent, reaching out for some therapeutic help might also be wise as well. Kathy: Wow, that's really helpful. And so just to clarify, what are the two main ways of processing, again? Kevin: The two tendencies of grief really are the stuffing and the sharing. Kathy: Is it a possibility to be a blend of both? Kevin: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. This is actually one of the most common questions that we get when we include this in a grief workshop. There's times in your life that you may be stuffing. There may be other times in your life, other types of losses that you share, and there may even be some spaces in your life that you feel comfortable sharing and other spaces where you decide to stuff. And that's natural. Kathy: That's helpful. And so remind me, what is the practice I can use as a stuffer? Kevin: So as a stuffer, the tendency is to internalize, and so the practice is to externalize. So what you want to try to do is get the story out. And you can do that through journaling, talking with a trusted friend or speaking to a therapist or a counselor, somebody who can walk you through that story. Kathy: And then for sharers like you? Kevin: For folks like me, we must seek ways to focus on our pain rather than the story so that we might begin to process the loss. So Sharers can also utilize journaling, and instead of journaling the story, we can hone in on the pain, hone in on the loss, hone in on the change that's occurring. So what I recommend for Sharers is to move away from narrative journaling and start doing bullet point journaling. And what I would like for Sharers to do in their journaling is to use a list in order to identify the list of losses that have occurred. That's going to help us focus in on the pain behind the story rather than just the narrative that can-- Kathy: Keep us stuck. Kevin: Yeah, exactly. It's going to actually help us feel less stuck because we're moving away from that story of stuckness. Kathy: Well, Kevin, this was all super, super helpful. As we think about the ways that we process our grief, I'm wondering, as we end our conversation, if we could all just pause for a moment and ask themselves this question: are you a Stuffer? Are you a sharer? If you are a Stuffer, what are you currently stuffing right now? If you are a Sharer, what do you need to focus on to process this upcoming week? Kevin: So whatever you may be coping with, blessings to you.

In this episode, Kevin and Jack talk about going to camp as a kid. They share some stories and fun memories of things they did there. Share your answers to the discussion questions in our WhatsApp group chat! https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Website link: https://atozenglishpodcast.com/did-you-go-to-camp/With listener mail from episode 6: https://atozenglishpodcast.com/do-you-have-any-pets/If you could take a minute and complete a short survey about the podcast, we would be very appreciative. You can find the survey here: https://forms.gle/HHNnnqU6U8W3DodK8We would love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.Intro/Outro Music by Eaters:https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/the-astronomers-office/agents-in-coffee-shops/Key Words: Write the definitions of the key words. Dribble:Scrimmage:Camp Counsellor:Certificate:Skull:Discussion Questions:Did you go to summer camp when you were young?What did you do at camp?Describe your favorite activity at camp.Describe your least favorite activity at camp?Full Transcript: Kevin: Welcome to an A to Z English quick chat we're gonna surprise each other with a topic for the day and then see where the conversation goes. Check our website for a study guide with vocabulary notes, discussion questions and more as well as links to our Whatsapp, Facebook pages and other social media where you can join in the conversation. Our topic for today, Jack, I just yesterday I, I finished teaching a kids camp of an English kids camp and it got me thinking about camps that I did when I was a kid and you must have done some camps in school or in summer vacation or winter vacation.Jack: I did a lot of uh, I did summer camps when I was a kid, especially in elementary school. Yeah like a week or two weeks, something like that.Kevin: Oh two weeks. That's quite, that's quite a long one. I don't remember well I guess it depends on the camp. I can think of two that I did when I was young. One was a field trip camp. My school went to an island in California and that was probably pretty short, maybe three nights, three or four nights, yeah that's a pretty short one.Jack: Exactly.Kevin: Yeah, but then I did another. I did a basketball camp when I was in elementary school and that was probably longer. That was probably two or three weeks but that was not sleeping at the camp, you know, I'd go from my home to the school and play basketball and go home every day.Jack: Yeah, I did the same thing in elementary school and middle school. We had a uh, our high school basketball coach would run in a summer basketball camp, but yeah it was only…Kevin: You said you were a basketball player.Jack: Yeah, I played basketball in high school and in college, so um yeah, we would uh, we'd go learn the techniques and then play and then go home, eat dinner, sleep, and then go back again the next day. Basketball all day every day, yeah at that time, basketball all day every day was heaven for me you know. That's all we wanted to do. I mean, we, that's what we did when we couldn't get into the gym. We went to the park and we played basketball. I mean that's all we, that's all we wanted to do.Kevin: Yeah, and how, what did the coaches do to keep it fun for the kids all day. It's not just play basketball, it's not just go go go go go. Like they organized things. I'm sure they you have to organize things.Jack: It's more difficult, the younger, so for the younger kids, um, I think it's more, they can't do as much, so they, it's a lot of like technique and just dribble down, go between the cones, you know just zig zag and then come back and pass the ball to your friend and then that person runs a drill and they zig zag through the cones and then they come back and so it's just a lot of that kind of stuff, very simple games. But when we got older, um, the, all we wanted to do was to uh, I'll use a maybe a new word here for our listeners is scrimmage and scrimmage is a word that means to play a game. But it's not an official game. It's just a practice game so that's all we wanted to do was basically we do all the technique and the practice but what we really want to do is play basketball and play yeah yeah and so that would always come at the end of the day, so in the beginning, you do the annoying hard work stuff and then later as a reward, then you then you get to play, scrimmage, you get to or you get to scrimmage. You get to play games, okay yeah, with each other so that makes sense.Kevin: I mean the camp that I just did was an English camp of course and so they did the kind of similar things. We did the boring class in the morning for the kids you know. Let's learn English and let's listen to the story and blah blah blah but then the afternoon was the fun stuff with the teachers. It was go play a sport or make some pizzas or something you do. Some games, still English, for the kids to practice it's an English camp, but you know, do the boring stuff in the morning and have the fun stuff in in the afternoon before dinner. Did you ever go to any just like fun camps?Jack: I went to a couple summer camps that were just all about fun activities. There was no English. There was no basketball, um, you know. We could play basketball if we wanted to, but they weren't teaching us how to play basketball, and I remember going to one of those camps and that was really fun because we were yeah…Kevin: I want you to tell me a story from one because I can think of one like I said I went to an island in in California with my school when I was it was maybe fifth or sixth grade so like upper elementary school, I don't remember. This was a long time ago of course, but we went to this island with the class and that was just yeah, just a fun camp, and I remember, what do I remember, it was so long ago…I remember we went kayaking which was really cool because we were on an island, and then I remember also doing like a night hike like walking with all of your friends in the night time through the forest and that was really funny because it was kind of scary, and it was very dark, like some people had flashlights. But not everyone, and so I remember we were walking and we would hold hands of the person in front and behind you so that we wouldn't get lost of course because losing a kid in the forest in the dark is bad. Yeah, but we would um, when you're walking, you would have to be careful because there's many things in the forest to fall over, to trip over, yeah and so we would spend…we would send like a message back in the line saying like step up or step down or go right or things to tell the person behind you. Like what's about to happen, but because I was you know a little troublemaker kid sometimes I would just tell the person behind me, step up or step down, even though there was nothing, there's no rock or anything, and so they would almost fall over and then I would laugh and keep walking so that was their teamwork. Uh it was a teamwork exercise, but yeah.Jack You weren't being a very good teammate huh?Kevin: I was breaking the team. Um where did you go? What was your fun camp?Jack: My fun camp was called uh camp Shamineau, and there's a good Native American name because it's named after a lake, yeah.Kevin: Where was this?Jack: Um this is in northern Minnesota, so lots of forests and as I mentioned in one of our earlier podcasts uh Minnesota is famous for its number of lakes. It's called ‘the land of 10000 lakes' right? There's a lot up there. There are so many lakes, and there's a lot of camps uh that are on you know kind of built on lakes so that you can go, yeah, you could go swimming, and I remember uh there was a there was a uh a challenge. It's called the I swam sham challenge and so okay uh the um… what do you… I'm blanking on the word right now, counselors, the camp counselors, camp counselors yeah.Kevin: Like, high school kids right?Jack: Yeah like high school kids or college kids and we were in elementary school and they would uh, they'd take you on one side of the lake and then they're in a boat and then you swim across the lake and if you make it all the way across the lake without getting into the boat or asking for help or anything, then you get a certificate that says I swam sham and uh so a few of us that were…Kevin: Did you make it?Jack: I made it absolutely. Yes, I was, I'm a strong swimmer. Uh not a, I'm not a particularly fast swimmer, but I very, I'm very familiar with the water, so and comfortable in the water, so for me it was you know, it was pretty easy, but I just remember feeling you know quite proud to have swam or swum across a lake that was pretty cool. So yeah, definitely, and it's something that especially when not all the kids can do it, when some of the kids are going up into the boat and you're like I did it, yeah, they managed to finish. They didn't make it or they're too afraid to try or something, so right, yeah it was kind of a point. It's a good feeling.Kevin: Yeah? Nice. That's very cool. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. These kids camps are really fun. Swimming across lakes actually reminds me a little bit off topic, one day, I really want to swim across the Han River here in Seoul.Jack: Oh really? Is that something that you can do?Kevin: There's actually, there actually, are people who've done it. I've looked it up before, but you have to choose like when to go because before the rainy season, before it gets crazy, yeah, and under some people say things like that quite dirty and stuff, so, but I think that would be really fun because I love being in the water as well yeahJack: And you're a strong swimmer. That's something that you do as a hobby.Kevin: Yeah, swimming is my exercise, so that's what I would love to get into.Jack: Yeah, um, there's you know, another uh aspect of that camp that I remember was uh the night games.Kevin: Like you did a night hike?Jack: We would play a game called capture the flag. You have two teams and one team has a flag and the other team has a flag and they hide it somewhere in the forest or on the campgrounds and then at night, you have to go and catch the other team's flag. And I remember uh how exciting and scary and fun that was because it kind of kind of feels like you're part of a battle or in kind of a war zone or something like that. So it's a very fun.Kevin: Uh night time that would be really cool to do. Yeah I remember one of our things, I don't remember how it works, but with our night hike, what we did, the reason we did it so dark was because then at the end, we turned off our lights. And you know, um, lifesavers candy? Lkke it's a little like just chewable candy. It's like shaped like a circle. Something that the camp counselors gave us was like mint flavored candies, mint flavored lifesavers and there was something in the mint flavored lifesavers that when you would bite into it, crunch down into it, if your mouth was open it would actually flash like a light.Jack: Yeah?Kevin: And I don't remember how but I just remember this this this activity when I was a kid because all of us, all of our friends got in a big circle and they gave us each a candy and we would all just crunch down on this candy and all of our mouths were just going likeJack: So there's some kind of light or fluorescence like coming?Kevin: There's something in that candy at least there was maybe it was some crazy chemical that was okay in the 1990s and they took it out now but there was there was something in the candy that that made it light up and that was the really exciting part of the trip.Jack: Wow that's a fascinating…I did not expect you to tell that story.Kevin: So I yeah it's something I just remembered, candy, that just remembered.Jack: Yeah that's fascinating.Kevin: Other things those camps are always really fun because you do like science experiments or random things. Another thing actually I that I just remembered we opened up um what are they called owl drop not just owl droppings but like there's a specific word for it where when an owl you know would like eat a mouse or whatever and then they poop it out and it falls to the ground. It's not like normal bird poo where it's just you know like white splattering on your shirt. It's like a small, like it looks like a small piece of dirt but then you can open it up with some tools and inside it there's like a mouse skull and some other bones and things like that so you can see what the owl ate because when owls eat mice, they just basically gulp it whole down and then they digest itJack: But they can't digest the bones.Kevin: So right so then the bones just getting pooped out.Jack: Wow that's yeah those are the things that I really enjoyed about uh you know being in elementary school and going to camps and doing science experiments and you know just uh and playing those games. I don't think I as an adult I don't think I've ever had as much fun and joy as I'd had when I was just a kid you know, and that's what camps do I think is that they just they really bring a lot of joy and happiness to children and I think it's something that you have to that you can you can't really hold on to as you get older and…Kevin: So yeah, and there's definitely a lot of memories that the kids make, especially if it's one where you're staying there for two, three, four nights or longer. And I think you know like a good place to wrap up for here when I was just finishing these camps with these kids. At the last day of camp, some of the kids are really emotional. I got kind of emotional. Like you've been spending you know a week just with these same group of kids all day and then these kids also are with me, the teacher, but more so with our camp counselors. And some of the kids were really sad to go home they were like I'm gonna miss you teacher and especially to those who like, I'm the teacher you know, so I'm happy, I'm having fun of course but the counselors, they're like teacher slash friend and so some of the kids were really sad to go home because they really made strong memories and some good friends and hopefully, they had a lot of fun at our camp and hopefully they'll come back.Jack: Yeah, when I went to camp Shamineau, I just, I'll this would be my last statement here, but I cried twice: I cried the first day because I was going to miss my parents and I was feeling homesick, and I cried on the last day of camp because I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to…Kevin: Yeah, that's so, that sounds like a pretty perfect camp experience where you're nervous to go but then you have so much fun that you don't want to leave, that you just want to stay there to last forever. Yeah, nice that's, great yeah, camps are fun and I would love to hear what kind of camps our listeners are doing out there in other parts of the world, you know, what are they learning? What are they doing? What kind of activities do you do in camps or what memories do you have?Jack: Yeah, tell us about those.Kevin: for sure, yeah, it's a fun a fun thing to relive that that happy part of your life when you were a kid or it was just all fun and games. But nice! So, for today though to wrap up I know we've got some listener mail from a couple of our previous episodes so what have, we got for today, Jack, yeah so we have uh some discussion question answers from Anna Maria and Anna Maria is from Colombia and this one was about pets. And the question was, “Do you have a pet?” And Anna Maria says yes. She has a dog named Tomate which, help me out Kevin, is that uh tomato and…Kevin: I think that is. I think that is tomato.Jack: Yeah, okay, so her dog is Tomato.Kevin: That is a cute name for a dog.Jack: I agree. And the second question was, “Is uh is your dog a good watchdog?” And a watchdog is like a protector, and she says uh yes, he barks a lot when a stranger is close to my house and he's always alert with strangers, so she actually feels safer uh having Tomate you know in her life in uh in her apartment or in her house so I think that's uh that's pretty cool. So, we'll give a shout out to uh Anna Maria and Tomate.Kevin: Nice, and the pets episode, that was our Quick Chat number six for anyone else who wants to go back and check that one out, so yeah, pets are pets are great. Tomate I love I love the name yeah.Jack: I love different dog and pets. It's fun to hear the different names that people give their dogs around, especially in other parts of the world. It's really interesting.Kevin: Yeah yeah yeah, definitely some names here in Korea are like normal people names and some names are just totally random.Jack: If you name your dog Frank, uh it's not, it doesn't really uh you know doesn't capture that.Kevin: I don't know any Frank dogs. That's a bit funny, but anyway, that was a great one, so thanks Anna Maria and everybody, well thanks for tuning in. Please remember to leave us a review if you can on Apple Podcasts and a five-star rating. That would be, that would be super helpful and also you can check our Whatsapp group. It's linked on the webpage or down in the show notes where you can come and join us in the conversation, so we'll talk to you there have a good one all right.Jack: Bye bye!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Fantasy Basketball season is just around the corner but dynasty value changes happen twelve months a year. Jesse welcomes on Kevin So to discuss established players moving to Eastern Conference teams who may have moved up or down in fantasy value. Players discussed include Danilo Gallinari, TJ Warren, Andre Drummond, Nerlens Noel, Ben Simmons, Jalen Brunson, Isaiah Hartenstein, PJ Tucker, Otto Porter Jr, DeJounte Murray, Malcolm Brogdon, De'Anthony Melton, and Monte Morris. Subscribe to Dynasty Sports Life for great dynasty talk about four dynasty sports. Follow on twitter at @dynsportslife. Email at dynastysportslife@gmail.com

In this special episode of The A to Z English Podcast, we talk with May, a dedicated English student and an active member of our Whatsapp group. (Link here: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7)It's a great conversation, so you won't want to miss it!https://atozenglishpodcast.com/interview-with-may-fong/If you could take a minute and complete a short survey about the podcast, we would be very appreciative. You can find the survey here: https://forms.gle/HHNnnqU6U8W3DodK8We would love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.Intro/Outro Music by Eaters: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/the-astronomers-office/agents-in-coffee-shops/Listener Interview 001: May from MalaysiaFull TranscriptKevin: Hi everybody! Welcome to A to Z English. Today Jack and I are trying something new. We're gonna be starting to interview our listeners and we have our first listener today who is May Fong from Malaysia actually and May hi.May: Good evening!Jack: Hi!May: Good evening!Jack: Thank you for joining us. This is very cool.Kevin: Yes, thank you.May: Thank you for inviting me too!Jack: It's our pleasure yeah well yeah yeah.Kevin: I agree and because we are on an English podcast of course I'd like to know well how long have you been studying English for?May: Um yeah, obviously I'm learning English from school during my school time. That means from primary until secondary school but then um after study I have honestly I've forgotten most of my English like grammar tenses and all that okay and then I started to reinforce all my English language skills since 2020.Kevin: Oh, so just a couple years?May: Yeah. Where at that time I got a study grant from Malaysia okay it's it is basically a three-month English course so yeah I studied it and with one um e-learning company so okay yeahKevin: That's great and it's a Malaysian company?May: It is not a Malaysian company actually, it's um I can call it national company. Jack: So how long was the gap where you stopped studying English and then you started again? Was it like five years or longer than that?May: Honestly, I had not been studying English since the day I left school. I should say that so yeah I'm speaking English on a daily basis but then I just I just speak. I don't know whether what or whatever I speak is correct or not and why do we why do I say things in such a way, so yeah, I just speak English but uh I understand.Jack: So after school you continued to use English? You spoke English but you weren't studying formally until 2020? You started studying again more formally?May: Okay yeah for me I study again.Kevin: Okay and so you if you started studying a couple years ago again and first you started studying with that program right with that three-month course which is great, but now you listen to podcasts and thank you for listening to our podcast of course but what other, how do you self-study? What do you do to = help you improve?May: Okay. I will watch videos on YouTube okay basically where the moment I finished that the online class so I did I did not stop there so uh every day I will go to YouTube and then I will search for whatever video that I think interesting and important for me to learn.Kevin: Yeah and are these videos specifically English videos like English grammar pronunciation or is it just some other random video that you're interested in but it's in English?May: Um I started learning grammar learning then from there and then I search for also search for listening daily conversation vocabulary lessons and anything any I mean almost anything just anything that English language.Kevin: Sure okay and I'm curious to ask, you said you watch a lot of YouTube videos but something that you have told us is that you are visually impaired right? It's hard for you to see the screen and you have a voice screen reader reading to you which is very cool. So what do you find useful about YouTube? You're not really watching the videos, right? You're just listening to them.May: Okay on YouTube all the videos okay I can see all the video most of the video come with audio so I will just listen to the audio and then whenever there is a word that I don't understand I will read this subtitle. From there I can pick up the words. Then I will go and look into the dictionary. That's how I learn.Jack: Oh wow, so you as you watch the videos, everything that you understand you keep running the video but if you find a word that you that you're not familiar with you will look it up and find the definition and then go back to the video and then finish the video?May: Yes correct. I will pause the video and then I will check it out on the dictionary. I'll check it out in the dictionary then that's how I live.Jack: That's great! A great way to do it is checking the dictionary for anyone yeah.Kevin: Did you learn any interesting words today?May: Um not today.Kevin: That's okay, um but soon.May: Usually I will do my, I'll start learning at night time like um after 8 00 pm okay 8 pm so I'll go on YouTube and see what is interesting.Jack: And how many hours do you spend every day on learning English and watching videos or podcasts?May: Um I have no specific hours of day. About one or two hours.Kevin:  Nice! Wow, that's great. One or two hours every day is very good. I need to do more Korean every day, I do maybe two minutes, very small. That's funny, um, so May you're very busy on our Whatsapp group. How and and that's great we we love to encourage our listeners to participate I in the website. It's good to see.Jack: Yeah it's great to see and um how as uh um as a person who is visually impaired, how do you how do you do that? How do you participate do you um do you record your voice usually or do you type? I mean how does what does the what is the technology that you use to interact on our Whatsapp group?May: Okay there's a software. Basically, it's a screen reader okay um different type of software like on my laptop the software I use is called NVDA basically this this software will read whatever things appear on the screen okay. Let's say when I'm browsing a website so when I move the cursor around the software read for me okay what is currently showing on the screen whether it's a link it's a heading it's a there's some chat box of um something that I can click on to get more details things.Kevin: So, you move the cursor around the screen and it gives you a kind of uh um of mental a mental picture mental like information so you can kind of get an idea of what is on the screen well what about images. Does it also describe images as well?May: Okay it is depends on the website and the apps created by the provider. KSM created it in a very friendly way of redline user where they labels all the images with proper words so for that kind of a picture. Yes the system or the screen reader will describe but sometimes they are also challenges for me as a blind user where the I mean the provider did not label all the images graphic so that is the challenge for me.Kevin: Yeah may that's something that I've seen because for our website our A to Z English podcast website I'm the person who makes the website and so I've seen when I put up a picture or when I put something up it often tells me make a good description for blind people and so I have to remember so if if my website is not good enough yet please tell me and I will go add better descriptions but we don't have too many pictures yet.May: It is good if you can consider this people with disability. I mean the need of people with disabilities so that you know yes can also read whatever on your website.Kevin: So it is actually good. Yeah I will I will keep that in mind for people like you so thank you for the reminder.Jack: Yeah I noticed that you also like to post memes as well and uh is that is that a challenge to because uh it seems like you have you're really good at uh posting memes as well is that because the picture description is really good or okay?May: For the picture that I posted, I mean, they're all the pictures that I post every morning. I got it from a Facebook page okay yeah I mean on Facebook what I most of the picture and it can be I mean the screen reader can describe it properly so that's how I got it and I post it in the group. I share it in the group.Jack: So you search on Facebook and you find something that's funny and and interesting and then you put it into the Whatsapp group.May: Yeah I shared it if there was a group and also some of my friends like morning greetings.Kevin: That's great and why do you enjoy using our English Whatsapp group? How is that helpful for you?May: Every day okay actually I was learning English with Robin's channel. like Shaw English Daily English homework.Kevin: Yeah he's great.May: That's all very good. So from there I was you guys who always joined the what's up good job there was some bro so I I clicked the link to join the group and that's how I come into the group yeahJack: How do you uh how do you listen to the podcast? Do you listen to it on your smartphone or do you listen to it on the computer? I'm just curious. What's your favorite way to listen to a podcast?May: It can be done in both way actually but most of the time I'll listen at home. That means I will use my laptop to listen.Kevin: Uh so are you listening from our webpage?May: Yes from your webpage.Kevin: Oh that's great! That means I need to make the webpage better if you're using your own page.Jack: Blame Kevin blame Kevin.Kevin: Yes that's my um that's for me you you said that you have this special software that helps you describe the screen.Jack: And how like how long have like what was the process I I'm guess I'm wondering like when did you how long have you been visually impaired is this something that was from the time you were born or did it happen later in life? Did you lose your sight later?May: I was blind since I was born so that means when I was kid I started to learn I mean at that time there is no computer no internet right I think so we will learn for blind people. We will learn some uh braille. Have you heard about it?Kevin: Yes of course.May: Braille is a method for to assist blind people to read. It's a traditional way actually. It's a traditional way and actually it's um we are still using it until it until now the only thing is nowadays we have computer so we have um screen readers so most of the time we are using them.Kevin: Yeah and I know Jack and I talked in an episode not too long ago about technology and it's so amazing because when I was a kid the technology would be impossible for blind people to use the internet and now you browse the internet just as well as anyone else.Jack: You're a pro internet user and meme sharer and on social networks. I'm sure you're much better than I am at browsing the internet. I'm not very good with computers to be honest.Kevin: Yeah we're we're old people.May: Yeah okay they're actually this can do most of the things for blind like the light useronly sometimes there are challenges but of course overall it helps.Jack: Yeah that's what fantastic to hear. Yeah what is the what's maybe the biggest challenge um when using a screen reader? It's something that you if you if you could design your own software is there something you would change to improve it?May: The biggest challenge I could say will be when the provider created the website um as I mentioned earlier not friendly to blind users like they didn't label the image and the graphic and then one more thing is um they I mean uh for your information blind user doesn't use a mouse when navigate while navigating a computer all right so yeah so we use only keyboard only keyboard that means we have to remember most of the keyboard commands.Kevin: So you do know all of the pro commands, at least the main keyboard command the important ones?May: Right of course you'll need oh yeah when something is created on they created something where we can only click by the mouse or move around by the mouse that is the biggest challenge sureKevin: Interesting right yeah well May this is all very interesting to hear. It's so very cool that you're able even without being able to see the internet you're able to watch YouTube's from Robin's channel and you're able to listen to our podcast. That's so fantastic what the internet does for you today. I have one final question for you if because again we're an English learning podcast if you could give everyone a tip, what would you tell someone who wants to learn English how can they how can they learn what do you think was helpful?May: Um well there's a lot there's a there are a lot of free um learning channel learning tips learning exercises learning lessons on the internet so you just have to browse through it that's all you can learn okay actually yeah like The A to Z English Podcast.Kevin: Yep of course. Yeah that's great, so May, thank you very much for joining and for everyone else out there who's listening, we have a Whatsapp channel that we were talking about here and if you want to come and talk to us in our Whatsapp channel and maybe even talk to us here on an interview episode you can find all of the links and everything from our hopefully friendly website absolutely thanks very much nice to talk to you!Jack: thank you so muchWhatsapp Group Link: https://chat.whatsapp.com/H4LaiLAUc5SEiaxBp16aEpSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, Kevin and Jack ask an important question about the universe: are aliens real? You have to listen to find out what their answers are.https://atozenglishpodcast.com/do-you-believe-in-aliens/Share your answers to the discussion questions in our WhatsApp group chat! https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7If you could take a minute and complete a short survey about the podcast, we would be very appreciative. You can find the survey here: https://forms.gle/HHNnnqU6U8W3DodK8We would love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.Intro/Outro Music by Eaters: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/the-astronomers-office/agents-in-coffee-shops/Quick Chat Episode 15: Do you believe in aliens? Full Transcripts, Key Words, and Discussion Questions Kevin: Welcome to an A to Z English Quick Chat where Jack and I are gonna surprise each other with a topic for the day and just see where the conversation goes. Check our site for a study guide with vocabulary notes, discussion questions and more as well as links to our Whatsapp or Facebook pages. And you can join in the conversation there. So Jack what do you want to talk about today?Jack: All right, well I have a good topic for us uh Kevin. I want to ask you a question here: Do you believe in aliens?Kevin: Do I believe in aliens? And when you say let's define this. I think first, what do you mean aliens? Do you mean like bacteria living on another planet or like some creatures that are as smart as us traveling through space and visiting Earth…Jack: Yeah, I'm talking about uh life forms that are much smarter than we are um intel intelligent life forms that are advanced so uh advanced life outside yeah in in another universe or oh sorry in in the universe but in another galaxy um you know.Kevin: So maybe in our galaxy too. Our galaxy could be an argument right? Quite huge um yeah I mean I yes just to just to break it down I think definitely. I think for me I'm a big sci-fi fan. I know you are as well and although I've seen a lot of other science documentaries that talk about this from. Did you ever see the movie contact?Jack: Yes, I love the movie Contact.Kevin: Yeah, it's yeah, it's a really cool one and I think it was in the movie Contact where they looked up at the skies and they said you know is there life out there and they said more or less like if there's not, it's a waste of space.,Jack: True yeah.Kevin: That's a good, there's good, there's so many stars and galaxies and they're discovering more and more planets every day that it seems like how could there not be. I mean there's trillions and trillions and trillions of stars out there. Like it seems uh amazing to think that we're the only one in all of that.Jack: I agree and it's infinite. It goes on, it seems to go on forever and ever like there's, no there's no stop to the expanse of space and so if are you telling me that in all of that area that massive amount of just space, there's nothing, there's not, one of those stars is a sun of another uh you know uh planetary system that there are no planets that can uh sustain life and uh you know it might be there might be some that had like you said before that are just small organisms and it's not advanced life but if they have you know just simple life forms, then there must be planets out there that have advanced life forms are bound to happen.Kevin: If yeah and I think that simple life will have to exist and if simple life exists and eventually it will become not simple life like we are. The difficult or more interesting question is like do you think do you think aliens have ever you know so many people think that aliens have come to planet Earth and like abducted people and things do you think that that's happened do you think we've been contacted by aliens?Jack: Yeah, this is a very popular conspiracy theory in the United States uh the Roswell uh story right?Kevin: Area 51.Jack: Area 51, right, where supposedly an alien spacecraft crash landed uh in that area. Now is that in your, is that in New Mexico? Is that that's next to Arizona right? Yeah Roswell New Mexico okay and so there's also a big a large military installation around there right? I think there's, okay and so supposedly within this military base they have tried to reverse engineer a spaceship that is so far beyond our technological capabilities and so things that we are able to build. Our spacecraft are so much slower and so much less sophisticated than what this machine is and I think although the alien uh craft that crashed in Roswell doesn't work that was able to teach us some very sophisticated and advanced uh technology that we never even thought about using and so some people believe that's what some people believe right and so I'm probably I'm not gonna say I don't believe it and I'm not gonna say I do believe it. I am on the fence as we say in English. I'm on the fence. What about you? where are you?Kevin: I mean yeah, I can't say yes or no for sure on that one. I do think it's I'd say it's unlikely. I don't think aliens have actually come to Earth because if they have, I don't think it would could have remained a secret in the same way like if it happened, people would know about it. This isn't like a superhero movie where aliens come down and somehow no one knows about it for you know hundreds of years. like we would probably know and I do think alien life exists. Intelligent life probably exists somewhere in the universe but the universe is again so big that the odds of them finding us or us finding them are like finding a needle in a haystack. It's tiny that it's a you know 0.0001 chance of finding something because there's just so much out there you know they could point their telescopes like we are we're pointing our telescopes up into the galaxy and we find nothing because there's so much to look for and we're and we're constantly beaming messages out into space to see if we can get some kind of response or some kind of you know that signal will reach some intelligent life and it doesn't seem like we've ever gotten any definitive evidence of it. It's just there's been some strange things that have happened but there hasn't been that contact with an alien life form that would confirm, at least nothing that we know.Jack: Yeah.Kevin: I'm not sure if you've ever seen it. I'll have to try and find the map for you. There's um like you've been talking about, we've been beaming things out into space for 100, so years now with all of our TV and radio, but even all of that compared to the size of our galaxy let alone the universe, it's been going out for 150 years. It's a tiny amount like it's not gone very far right and so if there are aliens out there, unless they're very close to us which is possible, but who knows unless they're very close to us, they haven't noticed it yet you know. It's impossible for them to have seen it because it just doesn't go far enough right, so I think that there's aliens out there. I don't think they've been to Earth yet, and I don't know if they ever will be because it's just so big. it's like yeah trying to find one seashell, one specific seashell in all of the ocean.Jack: Yeah, you know, like I saw this show when I was five. Where did it go, the thing is, the thing I hope for is like just given enough time and enough effort that eventually something will happen where there will be some sort of intersection um or the other the alien species will be so advanced that they'll be able to travel at speeds that we cannot even imagine. Right now, um, you know I mean we've only been you know flight has only been possible for a hundred years. In America, I mean wasn't it the Wright Brothers who invented the airplane only 100 years ago.Kevin: Just over.Jack: Yeah yeah or just over 100 years ago, so the fact that we now have um you know little airplanes like Cessnas that can fly all over the place. We have giant jumbo jets that can transport hundreds of people.Kevin: To the moon.Jack: Yeah, then we can go to the moon. Um, it's really, it's amazing to think about what we've accomplished in just a hundred years so. If I fast forward two or three hundred years um, it makes me wonder if we're not going to, it just seems inevitable to me, like I just think that there will be we will at some point we find out that there is intelligent life but like you said, the ability for us to meet is so difficult because the distances are just, that's so incredible, but it's ridiculous yeah, the fact that space seems to go on infinitely makes me think there just have to be other places that are habitable for either human beings or other species of life form and so that's yeahKevin: There's two interesting thoughts about that that could take us a long time, but let's not do too long. One you said other species, other types of life, that's a very interesting one. Like for what we know, all life needs water for example right? But it's possible that there's some other crazy life that we can't even imagine that doesn't even need water out there, so maybe we're looking in the wrong place. But just to finish up, I've got one final question that to take this assuming that there is intelligent you know super advanced aliens out there Jack and assuming that eventually we will contact them do you think they'll be friendly? Jack: You know that's a good question. Again, I'm on the fence about this one. Uh I'm not sure if they look at what we're doing to our planet, the way we destroy our planet and the way we treat our planet so poorly. I wonder if they you know will look at us and say why are you not taking care of your planet um right? You know or the other side of that issue is maybe they did the same thing to their planet and they want to take our planet and use it for themselves, and so we become a lower species on the uh totem pole uh and so we become kind of working for them. So, it's kind of scary. I don't know what you know in the movies the aliens usually are the bad guys you know. They're coming to take our resources and they're coming to uh you know strip our planet of its of its natural resources and stuff like that and uh I prefer the other uh version where aliens just want to communicate with us and understand us and it's more like a they're just seeking information about the planetary systems and they come across Earth and they see human beings and they appreciate us for what we are you know um so we can we can only hope that they will be friendly because if they're more advanced than us, then if they're not friendly, we're in trouble.Kevin: Exactly, exactly. That's right, that's right all right well, yeah, I hope that they're friendly and let's see what happens. At least we do have some friendly people that we talk to in our chat room every day so have we got any listener mail.Jack: Um, yes, we want to talk to you today. We have some listener mail and I would like to talk about uh phobias. S, this one is from, let me see here, Layla. And Layla was talking about her phobias and she has a phobia of escalators which is interesting um and she says as soon as she, yeah, she says as soon as she thinks about escalators, her heart starts beating so fast And she says uh fortunately she has outgrown this phobia. Or at least she has tried to, I think. She's still, there's still a little bit of the phobia there, and uh she says in Dubai there are a number uh a big number of malls and they all have escalators and uh so she uses the stairs to go to the next floor the first floor the second floor and so uh or sometimes she says her sister-in-law will help her by holding her hands so that's the uh that's uh Layla's phobia. Yeah, so thanks for thank you for sharing that Layla.Kevin: Cool, all right well thanks everybody for listening, and we'll come back and talk to you more about aliens next time. Remember to check our webpage and our Whatsapp group for you to join in the discussion all right.Jack: Bye, bye.  Key Words:  Universe: all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos Bacteria: Microscopic single-celled organisms Expanse: the distance to which something expands or can be expanded. Sustain: support physically Intelligent life: beings that can learn and understand things Finding a needle in a haystack: The act of trying to find something very small in a very large area Infinitely: without limits; forever Discussion Questions:1. Do you believe in aliens?2. Do you think aliens have visited Earth?3. Do you want aliens to exist, or would you prefer humans to be alone in the universe?Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, Kevin and Jack talk about what technology was like back when they were young! The conversation started to go long, so expect more discussions about tech from these two oldies later on. We also had some listener mail from episode 10 about your favorite things!https://atozenglishpodcast.com/technology-from-the-80s-and-90s/Share your answers to the discussion questions in our WhatsApp group chat! https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7If you could take a minute and complete a short survey about the podcast, we would be very appreciative. You can find the survey here: https://forms.gle/HHNnnqU6U8W3DodK8We would love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.Intro/Outro Music by Eaters: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/the-astronomers-office/agents-in-coffee-shops/Full Episode TranscriptKevin: Welcome to an a to z English Quick Chat. We're going to surprise each other with a topic for the day and just see where the conversation goes. Check out our site for a study guide, for vocabulary notes, discussion questions and remember we've got links to Whatsapp, a Facebook page and all of our other social media where you can check in the conversation. So. Jack, we've been talking with a lot of our listeners in our Whatsapp group actually and something I've found interesting is that there's a lot of young people in there.Jack: That's right.Kevin: And we are old compared to some of them and it, I kind of think it would be interesting to talk about technology because even one thing in our Whatsapp group so many of our listeners are doing voice memos in there and I'm just not used to that.Jack: yeah right.Kevin: Like i do text like I like typing and that voice message is weird and it feels like that's where tech is going and so tech has changed so much in our lives, I mean. When we were kids, we had no internet.Jack: I didn't have the internet um even actually my whole uh school career you know elementary, middle and in high school.Kevin: Cool. So, when did you get? When did you get your first computer in your house?Jack: Oh, I never had a computer.Kevin: When you were growing up you never had a home computer?Jack: I never had a home computer. I had a word processor. So, imagine if you have a computer but you take away everything fun and interesting about it and just leave the whatever's left over the unfun part the you know typing and papers and printing papers and think documents, yeah that's what that's what I had was a word processor that was, it's basically a typewriter with a little bit of editing that you can do.Kevin: And just for everyone listening. Just so you know, Jack and I are both oldies, but Jack has me. He's older than me by uh five years so not a huge difference but when it comes to technology, we were both born right when you know home computers and internet and things were starting to move around the world, and so we're even though we're only a few years apart there's a significant difference because for me, Jack, we had a we had a personal computer in my house when I was in I'm pretty sure we had one in elementary school when I was when I was in elementary school and it was a very simple computer. It had like no Windows. it was a DOS system, so you know there was no graphical interface which most of our listeners probably can't imagine like if you wanted to play a game or if you wanted to open the word processor, you would have to type. You just come, you'd open it up and it would just be a black screen with the letter c colon forward slash and you would just type text and you would just go like you'd say like go to word processor folder. Open word processor, you know in different text but basically that you'd have to type theJack: Type in the command basically.Kevin: Right exactly! Yeah, yeah, so, we had that when I was in elementary school and then I do remember connecting not to the internet but I remember connecting to a BBC. It was a bulletin board, something not the BBC from England.Jack: Oh, okay a different BBC. I was thinking that…Kevin: Yeah yeah, no this is a different BBC. It was just basically a bulletin board and it was I don't even remember exactly how they worked. You would dial in with your modem, and so you'd use the phone line and dial in and you'd connect to someone's server where then sometimes they had games, sometimes they just had chat rooms where you could talk to your friends and like very simple stuff, but I remember doing that in in elementary school.Jack: Oh, I did that in elementary school with my uh, on my friend's computer. So, my friend had a computer, and he was talking about using expressions like the internet or uh and I didn't understand any of it. I didn't know what that was.Kevin: Yeah right.Jack: And so he we were able to uh like you said go to some uh someone's private server I suppose right? He would share some kind of game and it was always just like a very simple kind of like not even, not even Super Mario level, you know, grab, it was a couple squares actually.Kevin: Kind of you know speaking of that, did you have, did you ever have any video game systems?Jack: Yeah, we were, I was a hardcore video game guy, Like, I love the original Nintendo. So, I started with the uh, I can go, I can go back really far here for our listeners because I was there at the very beginning. I bought Pong at a garage sale when I was in elementary school, and my television and Pong is basically two… it's like tennis or ping pong, and you move the cursor up and down, and it knocks the ball back and forth that was it. That was like the first video game.Kevin: It really was the first video game. I mean if you bought it from a garage sale like you bought it obviously used of course because I think that came out in the 70s at some point originally.Jack: Yep, it was sitting in somebody's garage for a long time, and I just bought it for like a dollar or two dollars and brought it home.Kevin: Nice!Jack: And we had that for a little while, but it got boring quickly, and then my parents bought me an Atari which was very popular in the 80s as well. Um, I think Nintendo and Atari had kind of a battle and Nintendo obviously won, but uh yeah, it was uh you know it was one of those things where we didn't know at the time which one would be the uh you know the winner, so the Atari. I had like Pac Man and all and it was it was a fun. It was very fun. They had great games, so yeah.Kevin: I never had an Atari. My brother and I, we did buy the first Nintendo, the NES, the Nintendo entertainment system and we bought that not when it was, because again, we're a couple years younger, so we bought that like a couple years after it was first released. So, it wasn't a brand new product, but it was still the video game system, and yep, We had that with the original Mario and Duck Hunt of course.Jack: Yes!Kevin: Yeah, and yeah, so we had those original Nintendo systems as well, so I mean that's a computer. That's the original tech. Now I mean computer systems and video games today are obviously so much different.Jack: Yeah, and I think a lot of it has to do with if your parents are into you know uh computers and stuff like that, so when you're young, if you're you know in my generation, because I'm old. In the 1980s, some people did have computers, but it just wasn't very common. None of my friends, you know, other than my one friend who did have a computer, but even when we played games it wasn't computer games. We would play Nintendo or Atari, so yeah, they were separate. They weren't, it wasn't a gaming system.Kevin: It was a video game always, not a computer game, it was a video game.Jack: Exactly.Kevin: I guess that's a good point about if your parents were connected to it. I think although my mom and dad weren't super techy necessarily, they, my mom at least, had a connection with it because my grandfather way back in the day, he was one of the first binary programmers for Eastman Codex, so like my mom has stories of him bringing back you know like a book of ones and zeros and ones and zeros and ones and zeros and finding the problem in the code of the ones and zeros code.Jack: Wow.Kevin: So at least my mom like understood you know tech is a thing and computers are a thing and this will be the future, and we need to go from there.Jack: Yeah, yeah, I mean that that is really interesting because I you know as time went by um my friends, some of my friends started to get computers when I was getting into like high school and stuff like that okay um but my family just wasn't, we were not computer people. And so I was very much like kind of afraid of computers. They were too, they were just mysterious to me and I didn't know how to operate them, and so I would write my papers either by hand, so I would just write my essays you know handwritten, or I would uh type it on a word processor or a typewriter. So okay, yeah, I got and I took uh, even in high school, I took two or three typewriting classes, so like how to type basically, yeah, how to type. So, basically just a big room full of typewriters, and we would just type documents, just copy.Kevin: Oh wow!Jack: Yeah, look at it and then type it and I you know I kind of uh proudly can say I got up into I think I was 75 words a minute, something like that.Kevin: That's pretty good. That's, that's quite fast. I type I think I type around that speed now actually after years of practice, you know, like that's a pretty good speed. I learned that's funny to compare them. I learned typing from a program called Mario teaches typing, and speaking of Mario, because of course you know I was a Mario fan and so I had like you know on one of my early computers, we had a program that was Mario teaches typing, and it was like the original Mario game right where Marios is running from the left to the right side of the screen but for each Goomba or each bad person or each you know block that you have to jump or whatever it starts with a letter.Jack: Yeah.Kevin: You know so it's like you have to hit whatever and you're jumping over you jump on them and then it starts to get more complicated and faster. It becomes a word or a sentence or and it's faster and faster and otherwise Mario dies if you if you don't get it, so I learned typing not from just yeah copying text but from like a game basically. I gamified typing.Jack: Yeah.Jack: I'm kind of curious to our listeners out there um how did you learn to type? Like what you know, do they teach? You know, for the younger generation, I imagine that computers are in schools everywhere, so if you know go to school now, you have access to a computer. My daughter was uh using a computer from the time she was you know uh five years old, so she can you know scroll on a screen and she can do all kinds of uh you know computer you know things on a computer that I could never do even as an adult. Now I've learned to do it because I had to, but it was, it's just interesting to compare my childhood to my daughter's childhood.Kevin: So along with typing, I'd be curious how, it depends on the age of our listeners as well, like what kind of phone they first had when they had a cell phone because remember like you and I, we never had a cell phone until we were quite late. I had my first cell phone here in Korea in 2007 or 2008. And I remember original cell phones. They actually had like a keyboard right like actual physical buttons. You know the phones today. It's just all on the screen. But I remember teaching at an academy and one of my young students, she was probably like your daughter's age like 13 or 14 something like that and because there were physical buttons, it's like a keyboard. You can feel where your thumbs are on it. Uh, I remember I was teaching her something and I saw her hands under the table just going away and she was able to type very fast without looking at her phone keyboard as well, and like I asked, I was like get your phone really quick. I wasn't angry. I was like hold on. I looked at it and she had typed like a full sentence, a full paragraph, not looking at this little nine button keyboard down under her.Jack: Using the uh, is it called qwerty is that what the old text message?Kevin: qwerty, no qwerty is the keyboard that you use right now.Jack: Oh, okayKevin: Because look at your keyboard, Jack. The top and bottom that the keyboard is QWE.Jack: Oh, okay i thought qwerty was where you press the three times and it you get uh it's like yeah.Kevin: qwerty is your keyboard because if you look at the thing.Jack: I just noticed that it said, yeah I've never put that together before today.Kevin: No, I'm not sure what though. I don't know the name of that three like you know where the button has abc and then cef and yeah you have to like go through all of those, um, I don't know the name of that offhand, but yeah, it, she was using that system and it was just crazy quick and very impressive. But Jack, I mean this is this technology topic, I think we could carry this, we could talk about this for days, and we haven't even gotten away from our like elementary school let alone when we were in high school let alone when we actually had the real internet and things like that. I think we'll have to uh part two this one or maybe uh turn this into a multiple uh episode conversation. This is definitely gonna be a part two part three part four because I mean tech is such an interesting part of our lives and you and I have seen it from where there really wasn't any tech or very little at least to now most of our listeners just are you know have always had tech like always in their lives and the way that like games and things are all combined now with your computer and everything, and so in your smartphone.Jack: So, I think uh we covered video games we'll talk about uh some other uh examples of tech.Kevin: Yeah, we'll have to get back to the early internet. I mean just one last thing because the interesting thing about the internet is I remember going online right now you're just always online. you're always on the internet. When we were younger, it was like I'm gonna use the internet and you would have to go and log into it and turn it on and now even that is different. Like, internet is just everywhere, it's yeah ubiquitous…Jack: I don't know how yeah I lived without it for so, you know as long as I did.Kevin: And that's and that's what we can talk about because there's so many things that like our phones do today for us that we somehow did without many years ago, and it's interesting to compare because I remember doing without it, but I don't know in retrospect why exactly, yeah but let's come back to this later because we've got to get to some listener mail of course. We do have some listener mail, so you go ahead and get to that. Who have we heard from this week?Jack: So, today I'm going to read listener mail from one of our listeners named Salomeh and Salomeh writes in uh regards to the episode of uh what are your favorite things and so for her, she said, in the past few years my favorite things were reading pdf books from her computer and cell phone so that kind of goes along with our episode. Reading books on your phone, yeah reading books on your phone, reading books on your computer, she enjoys surfing the web, playing computer games and drinking coffee. So, I think surfing the net, you know surfing the internet and drinking coffee has to be one of the most fun things you can do.Kevin: They go together very well, coffee and the internet. Nice, and that was episode 10 right? what are your favorite things.Jack: Yes, that's right.Kevin: For now, let's go ahead and wrap up. So, for everybody, thanks for listening. Remember to go join our Whatsapp group. It's linked on the webpage. You can join in the discussion as well. Tell us what you think. Ask questions, reply to the discussion, or if you have any topics, anything that you want us to talk about, anything, we'll go from there. So, everybody thanks for listening and we'll see you next time!Jack: Bye, bye! Key WordsWord processor: a machine that lets users create, save, and print documentsCommand: an order or instructionGarage sale: a sale of used or unwanted goods; normally held in a person's garage or yardUsed: not new; an item for sale which was owned by a previous personBrand new: new; an item for sale which has never been previously owned Discussion Questions1. How did you learn to type?2. How old were you when you first used the internet?3. How old were you when you got your first smartphone?4. Do you enjoy playing computer games? Why or why not? Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode of the podcast, Kevin and Jack teach a lesson about music. They begin the podcast with a practice dialogue. Next, they unpack vocabulary and key words from the dialogue and explain the meanings. Finally, they answer discussion questions related to music. Download a homework guide for this episode by clicking the link here:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/what-kind-of-music-do-you-like/Click the WhatsApp link here to chat with your hosts and other listeners:https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7If you could take a minute and complete a short survey about the podcast, we would be very appreciative. You can find the survey here:https://forms.gle/HHNnnqU6U8W3DodK8We would love to hear your feedback and suggestions for future episodes.Intro/Outro Music by Eaters: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/eaters/the-astronomers-office/agents-in-coffee-shops/Full Transcript: Quick Tips 001: What kind of music do you like?Welcome to A to Z English Podcast. We're here to help with anything in English A to Z. I'm Kevin. And I'm Jack. Kevin: And today, we're going to talk about the kind of music you like. And today for our lesson, we're going to start with a dialogue that Jack and I will read, then we'll look to unpack some of the specific vocabulary that we used and finally we'll have a short discussion about the topic. You can follow along with the PDF file that will be linked in the show notes and remember that you can join our Whatsapp group to ask questions or join in the discussion together. So let's start with the dialogue. Jack: Hey Kev, what kind of music do you like?Kevin: I like all kinds of music, Jack. Jack: Give me a few examples of genres that you like. Kevin: I like Classic Rock, Hip Hop, and R&B. Jack: Rock and Roll is my favorite genre of music. Kevin: Yeah, you seem like a Rock and Roll kind of person. Jack: I'm so, who is your favorite singer? Kevin: Adele is my favorite singer. She's amazing. Did you know she's from England? Jack: Yes, I did. You know who else from England? Kevin: Who? Jack: The Beatles. They're my all-time favorite band. Kevin: Great. And now that we've done our dialogue. Let's go ahead and look at some of the vocabulary. So our first vocabulary word is kind of or kinds of. And Jack, what is kind of, what is kinds of? Jack: Yeah, so what kind of is singular and kinds of is plural and a kind of would be a type of something, so we use the expression type of, which has the same meaning. A type of car. UKevin, could you give me an example of a kind of car or a type of car?Kevin: Alright, well there's sports cars which would be a kind of car, or a pickup truck would be a kind of car or a van, a sports soccer van would be a kind of car. Jack: A soccer mommy van. Kevin: Exactly, so kind of any part of a big category of things, right, a kind of food would be Thai food or Mexican food. A kind of car, a kind of music. Jack: Right, and so if I asked you, like what kinds of food do you like? If I ask you kinds of with an s. Then you might say I like Mexican food and Thai food, so you can give me two examples of two types or three types or four types. So Kevin: Our next word is genre and why don't you, uh, tell our students what genre means? Kevin: A genre is basically a kind of, but it's a kind art thing. It's used for art topics, like music or movies or TV shows or actual art paintings and things like that as well. So there's many genres of movies for example. Right, so what's your favorite genre of movie, Jack? Jack: My favorite genre of music is probably science fiction. I really enjoy outer space and I like aliens and robots and things like that. So science fiction is my favorite genre. What about you? What's your favorite genre? Kevin: I like science fiction a lot, but also, comedy and action films. I like those are one of my favorite genres of movies. Jack: If we put two genres together like science fiction and comedy, what does that make? Kevin: Means like a sub genre. Jack: Yes exactly, so you have a sub genre. So that's another word you could you add there to your list. A sub genre is when you put two genres together and create another kind of a film or kind of.. Kevin: An under a sub, under a submarine under water or a sub genre. Yes, under the main genre. Jack: Nice.Kevin: So then, let's go back to music which is a type of art of course? So number three Classic rock, Hip-hop, or B rock and Roll. What are those? Jack: Those are different genres of music. So Kev, which genre do you like the best?Kevin: Um, probably listen to a lot of rock and roll. I think. Jack: Me too. Yeah, do you like Hip-hop though? Kevin: Yeah, there's some really good Hip-hop out there. Definitely. Jack: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I feel I'm too old to listen to Hip-hop, but I don't care. I like what I like. Kevin: There's some old Hip-hop as well that you can listen to. Jack: That's true. Kevin: And then well, then that's a good transition for number four is all time, right. Your all-time something. Your all-time favorite, so what does that mean? Jack: Yeah, so all-time would be better than all the others, so for example if I said what is your all-time favorite kind of food. Your all-time favorite kind of food. So in your life, of all the different kinds of food that you have tried. Which one is your favorite, the number one all-time favorite? So, Kevin, can I put you in the hot seat right now and ask you, what is your all-time favorite food? Kevin: Right and that's tough because there's a lot of amazing food out there I love Korean food and Mexican food and Thai food. I think my all-time favorite would probably be Thai food. It just has so many different intresting flavors and it's spicy and I love that. It's my number one. My all-time favorite. Other foods are fantastic, but that one's just a little better for me. At least I love Thai food. Jack: Actually, it's that's interesting because that is my answer as well. Uh, I lived in Thailand for a few years and I think they have a wonderful cuisine, Yeah, wonderful kind of food. Kevin:Every country has their own special food, but Thailand just they got something special down there. Jack: They're doing something right over there. All right. Kevin: So let's go ahead and move to our discussion questions and just talk about music here for a bit Jack, so you already said you like rock and roll. Why do you like rock and roll? Jack: I'm not sure. I think maybe it's because rock and roll is what my friends and I used to listen to when we were growing up. I think part of it is that rock and roll was very popular in American culture in the 1980s and the 1990s, especially the early 1900s. And so because of those reasons I think that's why it's my favorite genre of music. It's very much to do with when I was a teenager where I lived and what other people listened to at the same time when I was growing up. What about you, Kevin? What's your favorite genre of music? Kevin: Pretty similar I think. I listen to a lot of rock and roll as well mostly though. I did check out just about everything when I was a kid. I listened to a lot of countries because I like countries in the desert. But these days, I listen to mostly a lot more rock or a lot of Hip-hop. Actually I do like Hip-hop and some electronics. It really depends on my mood for the day. If I'm studying I don't really like rock and roll, I like electronic music for studying, but when I'm riding my bike, then rock and roll is great. Jack: Yeah, these days rock and roll is not as popular as other genres of music. I would say Hip-hop is by far. You know, country music is much popular. Kevin.Kevin: Just pop music and pop music and k-pop. K-pop is big all around the world these days. Jack: Yes, that's right BTS. Kevin: Yep, although I hear they're breaking up actually what.  Jack: Oh I didn't know that okay breaking news. Wow, all right. Um, good, okay. Kevin: Who's your favorite musician do you think? I think I mean you like a lot of rock you said, so maybe you're not a BTS fan so much, but who is your all-time favorite band? Jack: My all-time favorite band is the Beatles for sure, um, you know, if I think this is an interesting question. You know, who is your favorite Beatle? And that tells a little bit about your personality and so.. My favorite Beatles George Harrison. I like the guitar player with mystique. That's my favorite Beatle. What about you, who's your favorite Beatle? Kevin: I think you know me too well. I was probably going to say Ringo, yeah. I don't know the Beatles all that well, I quite like their music, but if I had to pick one that I think would be the most fun I probably would have picked Ringo.Jack: Yeah, anybody who I know, that you like Weird al. And if you like Weird al as much as you do. Then, your favorite Beatle has to be Ringo. I think that makes sense. Kevin: Yeah, I love some of the stranger songs that Ringo wrote. It was great. Jack: And I do like drums a lot as well as actually. I've never learned how to play the drums. I like the beat of it a lot. Jack: Yeah, I'm an amateur guitar player. But I just appreciate the genius of someone like George Harrison. George Harrison wrote, uh, here comes the Sun which is one of the Beatles most beautiful songs in my opinion. And he also wrote something which is a beautiful song. So yeah, of the entire discography of the Beatles I would say George Harrison has written some of my favorite songs in the best albums. Kevin: Very cool. Jack: Yeah, so should we ask our students out there that maybe they should take a minute and see if they can join in on, you know, the discussion by.. How can they participate in the lesson? Kevin: Well, we've got our Whatsapp group linked in the Show notes below, right. They should be able to go. And there's just a like down there if you're on your phone. You can click that and it should open up Whatsapp and automatically join the group. So feel free to come and talk to us and talk to each other about any questions you had from any of the dialogue or the vocabulary or just tell us what your favorite music is or your favorite band. Jack: Just share and we can get to know each other on Whatsapp. It'll be fun. Kevin: Nice, hope to see you in there. All right, well thanks for listening, everybody today. Remember to join our Whatsapp group and we'll see you there. Jack: Alright, bye bye. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Kevin Urrutia is Founder of Voy Media, a “growth marketing agency” focused on helping marketing executives grow their online businesses – but not from the “ground up.” Voy Media does not help companies that want to get started in online marketing, build clients' businesses, or act as any client's marketing team. Instead, the focus is on scaling successful client companies and taking them to the next level, moving them from 6 to 7 to 8 figures in monthly sales . . . and doing it fast. These clients already know what they need to do to build a business and they're doing it. They already have mature systems and processes in place for emailing prospective buyers and getting online content and reviews. Voy takes this collected information, breaks it down, and uses it to feed the creation of new ads, new videos, and new images for clients' social media – their already existing Facebook pages, Google Ads, and LinkedIn, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and TikTok accounts. Kevin's background is in computer programming. During college, he started a web development consulting company. After he graduated, he moved to Silicon Valley to work for Mint.com (Intuit). In that fevered e-commerce boom era (global e-commerce sales topped $1 trillion in 2012, up 21.9% from the previous year), “I kept building things. I kept going to hackathon startup events.” Frustratingly, all that “building” and networking did not result in sales.  Then Kevin discovered “marketing.” He researched SEO, found it “interesting,” and concluded that “Everything around you is really marketing, but it's great marketing when you don't think it's marketing.” He jumped to a startup called Zaarly, and then moved to New York and did what none of his programming buddies wanted to do: He started starting his own businesses. His buddies wanted “jobs.” He wanted to own something bigger and was willing to take the risk. Kevin started an online-scheduled cleaning company. and thereafter, a number of e-commerce companies, learning the lessons on switching products to drive sales and growing teams that he, today, passes on to his clients.  In this interview, Kevin discusses how the recent iOS update, iOS 14, allows individuals to turn off tracking and limits a lot of ad options that used to be available for advertisers. Now, instead of looking at the individual platforms to get information, companies must ask the questions: “How much revenue did we make from new customers this week? How much did we spend on ads? What is the ratio between new customer revenue with ad spend?” Kevin says things are more “fluffy” in one sense, but companies do have a better grasp on their profitability. He says, “People are actually building brands again, versus like, ‘Hey I just want to make quick buck online.'”  That's a good thing, he believes, because “Building a real business takes years.” Companies need to “reinvest into the branding. You got to reinvest into ads, copy, photography.” Kevin can be reached social platforms and on his agency's website at: https://voymedia.com/ where you will find case studies, courses, and Kevin's blog. Transcript follows: ROB: Welcome to The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Kischuk, and I am joined today by Kevin Urrutia, founder at Voy Media, based in New York City. Welcome to the podcast, Kevin.  KEVIN: Hey, Rob. Thanks for having me. Super excited to be here.  ROB: Great to have you on the cast. Why don't you start off by giving us an intro to Voy Media. What do you want to be known for?  KEVIN: Voy Media . . . we're growth marketing agency. Pretty typical, but the difference between us and other agencies is my background is in computer science programming. We'll talk about a little bit more of that later on. The way we help founders is by we come in to help you scale. We're not here to help you get started in online marketing. That's a different type of agency. We're more here for founders or other marketing executives that want help to grow their online business with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Creatives are also a big part. We're doing that now with the whole new iOS update and we're seen trying to switch around and again restructure agency to fit the market's needs too. ROB: (Laughs) I see. So, this is not, “I have an idea. I want to get the word out there.” This is “I know who my customer is but help me because I still don't know how to reach them.” Is that where you play?  KEVIN: It's a little bit after that, too, where you already spent some money and now you're saying, “Hey I have a marketing person in-house but we still need help because we want to scale” and you don't want to bring somebody new on again. So, I tell people all the time, we used to do what we said before . . . “Hey, you have a brand new idea. Let's help you” . . . and then it turned out that this was just a different type of client or customer that we didn't want to educate about what marketing was. It was just very difficult. I see some agencies do that. It's like I'm prey to you. Those clients, the ones that pay you that much, they're calling you every single day to give you an update. I think it's so funny, but like you've probably heard before, the more they pay you the less they call you. It's so true. ROB: That's amazing. What is it about a business at that stage that aligns with your talents? What's the playbook that starts to make sense at that stage that maybe isn't available sooner?  KEVIN: I think the playbook that's available is that these businesses already have systems on how to get content, how to get reviews, how to do all that stuff – just feeds our creative team to make new ads, to make new videos, to make new images for their social media, for their Facebook page. It's not like we're saying, “Hey, you should send an email out to get customer reviews.” They already are doing this, so their mindsets are already in this – “Yep, this is what we need to build a brand or a company.” It's just a different business shift of a person and for us, it's less pulling, like “Hey, we need this from you.” It's more like “Yep, this is already in our pipeline. You're gonna get it next week.” If we can, we get user-generated content every week – We just get that in the Slack channel – “Hey, guys. Here's this week's content.” They already have a process in place and we're here to help them. I tell people all the time – a lot of times business owners, in the beginning, want us to basically build their whole business for them. I say, “No, I'm your marketing team. I'm not here to build your company.”  ROB: This is our customer. What do you think? KEVIN: Yeah. I'm like, “I don't know. You have the product.” They're like, “Isn't your team supposed to do that?” Yes, but like, “I don't know exactly what you're doing” :Hey, it looks like this product. . . .like customers are complaining about this. Are you going to switch your product?” They're like, “No.” I'm like, “All right then. If your sales aren't going up, then you need to do something.” So, for me too, this comes from not just doing marketing, but because I've also had my own e-commerce companies too. So, I've had to switch products, I've had to grow a team, and that's where for me, it's like, I see you sometimes, I mean before like we work with founders, I'm like, “Hey, people are clearly complaining about this. Why aren't you switching or doing something?” And at least for me when I had my outdoor gear company – we recently sold it -- we made three to four versions of a trekking pole based on customer feedback because that's what you do as a business. You iterate over and over again. Sometimes people say, “Hey, this is a perfect product.” I'm like, “Is it a perfect product? You need to switch things around if people are complaining about it.” So, I don't know, for me, I'm trying to find people that, like I tell people all the time, the best people that we work with are people that have done it once, failed, and like, “Okay now. I know what to do because everybody has been through the trenches in the fire.” ROB: Sure. What it sounds like they have is they have a steady pipeline of content that speaks to their audience but . . . I think a lot of people's natural format is more long-form and not marketing copy, right? So, you can kind of take what they have, break it down, atomize it, align it to different channels, test some things, and then layer on a set of known tactics that work when you have legitimate content.  KEVIN: Exactly. That's what it is. It's like, “We're here to use tactics to help you grow versus help you figure out these tactics are. We can help somewhat but there's only so much time we can tell clients, “Hey, you need you see.” and they're like “Oh? why? I don't know how to go get it.” I'm like. “Send an email out.” They're like, “Oh okay I forgot this week.” I'm like, “All right. (sighs) I can't press this send button for you.” ROB: Right? Step 1 is send an email this week. Then come back and talk to me.  KEVIN: So yeah. I get it. I think for me, our agency – at least I tell people all the time – it just depends on what type of company or business you want to build. There's people that want to be in that zero to 1 stage, where it's like, “Hey, we're gonna build this system and process for you. But for me, I just don't want to be doing that. So, we're saying, we're shifting more towards – “Hey you have something and you have some sort of team. We're gonna come here implement, help you and supplement you and be that agency.” ROB: Sure. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention, I heard you mention briefly iOS 14. Obviously, the kind of individual targeting, opt-outs, all that is changing how ads run, how ads are tracked. What has been changing for you and how are you responding or suggesting people respond when it comes to the options that are no longer available to them due to those changes?  KEVIN: I think iOS 14 . . . it's interesting. I see both. For us, bad side for a lot of agencies like us is . . . I tell people, like we were, you could track everything. So, our incentives are very like, “Hey look! We spend more money. We make more money.” We see revenue going up, we can spend more money.” Because it's tracked and now that has really affected our ability to scale as an agency and again clients as well because they were spending 15k a month, now they're spending 20k, and they're just like, “Well, the results are even worse and we're not getting any sales.” So, I think, what has changed a lot is the way we're tracking because now we're so used to just looking at the platforms, Google, Facebook, say, “Yep, this is a 1 to 1 or at least pseudo 1 to 1, where right now it's even worse. I don't even know where it's coming from. So, tracking itself has changed and, at least for us, the way we're doing it now is like what people should have been doing or at least sort of had done. Which is like, “Hey, this week, how much revenue did you make from new customers? How much did we spend on ads? What is the ratio between new customer revenue with ad spend?” It's a bit more fluffy, but at least you're saying that, yes, you are profitable. So, more daily profitability sheets/ weekly profitability sheets or even monthly – like your P&L. Go into your account each month and say, “Yep, reconcile all the expenses. Were we profitable?” Great, business is still good. That is something that, at least before iOS 14, people didn't really know, which is interesting. I think any business, you have to know this stuff. People are getting a little more savvy with these numbers. At the same time, something that I've seen shift is that – I think it's good going back with my background. I think now people are actually building brands again, versus like, “Hey I just want to make quick buck online.”  ROB: Right.  KEVIN: That was something that we saw so much because it was so easy to track, like, “Hey, you like pet stuff, right? Let me make this pet niche store and for the next 3 months let me make 20K.” It wasn't like a brand where, right now, similar to any business like you probably seen . . . Building a real business takes years.  ROB: Right.  KEVIN: And there's gonna be years where you don't make money. Everybody had this weird mentality like, “Hey, if I spend a thousand bucks, I need to make 5k this month” . . . or else “You suck – not me.” This is not how you build a company. You got to reinvest into the branding. You got to reinvest into ads, copy, photography . . . I just saw this crazy, quick-flipping of businesses where ten years ago, you were actually okay, “I'm gonna mess with your cake(?) and I'm gonna make this thing a big brand and try to build something. I think that's coming back again, which is great because it's gonna be entrepreneurs that I think want to build true businesses for the long-term.  ROB: Right on. I think I may have heard this. I may have heard it wrong, but there's also an increasing challenge with now with the attribution window. Is that right? That there's actually a short, you can't, I think it's like used to be able to see if . . . so you ran an ad and somebody bought in thirty days. Mow you get what 7?  KEVIN: Yeah. You got like 7 or even like 1 day. Sometimes it's just so much tougher? Yeah.  ROB: So, it is more empirical. It's, “I spent money, am I making money? I increased my spend a little bit ago, am I making more money now?” It's trickier.  KEVIN: It's definitely trickier, like I said. I think you now need to have the stomach for it, like, “Hey, you're hoping to make money,” and I get both sides. You know there's always the side of like, “Hey, I'm not a VC-funded company.” I'm like, “Yeah, I know.” Most people aren't, but there's a reason why companies like Facebook and Google – obviously those are outliers, but other companies such as them that spend . . . like Uber, right? literally in business for ten years and every year lose money, right? There's a reason why it's like – again, that's a bigger scale but you sometimes need to think yourself as a smaller scale, say, “Hey, you're in this for the long run.” You're like, “There's a reason why everybody knows Uber, like, “Hey I'm gonna get a cab because all the brand equity of the advertising.” So, a lot of times you've probably seen business owners don't want to do that because like, “No I need to make money.” I'm like, “Yes, you should make money – but there is something to be said for reinvest into your business and saying, “Hey, I'm gonna do this as ‘quote-unquote' my life's work. It doesn't do your life, but like the next 5 to 10 years, right.  ROB: Sure. I think it's helpful. I think people are starting to get this understanding a little more – to know when you're doing brand marketing and to know when you're doing performance marketing because getting those things twisted is also a real source of misunderstanding if you . . . KEVIN: Oh yeah, there's definitely performance marketing everything and there's also brand marketing. A lot of people just want to do performance marketing but you still need to have great Instagram accounts, great Twitter accounts, great social media people. I tell people all the time, like, “Why do I need a social media manager– they don't make any money?” – But you still want people interacting with your community, talking to them. You know, some of the best companies out there do both performance and branding. Branding is one of those things that you see it when you see it. But when you're doing it, you don't see it. It's tough to put into a balance sheet but you know it when you see it. It's like Uber, you know? Lyft, you know? So it's hard. I know that for sure. ROB: And when sometimes it's even just a negative signal you're never going to see right? Somebody looks up your company. They look up your Twitter or your Instagram or your Facebook or your LinkedIn and if there's nothing there or if it's really dead, people judge that. I mean, they do. I do.  KEVIN: I know I do. I always think marketing is so funny because, like I tell people, “What do you do when you look up a business?” I know you're gonna go like look up reviews. I know you're gonna look at Instagram and then I'm like, “How come for your company you don't think you need to do that?”  ROB: Yeah.  KEVIN: They hate when it's like, “Oh, yeah. I don't know what I'm saying.” They feel dumb but I just hate saying, “I'm like you. You do this same thing, too. So why don't you do for your business? I'm like “Hey if . . . I also tell people this. I'm on calls. I'm like, “If you weren't on your website, would you buy?” And if it's a no, then, “Why do you think other customers would buy?” – So like, “I don't know.” ROB: Take us back a little bit in time here, Kevin. Where did Voy Media come from and what led you to jump off this company-building cliff.  KEVIN: Voy Media is my newest company that I started. Basically, my quick background is computer science. I was a programming major in upstate New York . . . Binghamton. All throughout college I knew I wanted to do my own startup – since I was17 – it's something I wanted to do for a long time. So, in college, I started doing one tiny bit which is my web building. I was 19 or 20. I had 2 employees working on web projects there. We were just getting customers through Craigslist – so developing stuff. For me it was mostly like I've always wanted to build a startup. After college I was like, “Okay I gotta go to Silicon Valley.” I went to work for Mint.com as a programmer and then I went to work for another startup there for 3 years. During this time, I wanted to build stuff so I kept building things. I kept going to hackathon startup events. One of the things that happened for me during this time – I have always was in this mindset of like, “Hey, if you build it, they will come.” Because, hey, if you have a great product people just naturally find you. That was the thing that programmers in Silicon Valley just said to each other. Like “Hey, if people build something great, people will just find it” is one hundred percent not true looking back – but the mindset was very different back then. So, I kept building stuff. Eventually, I was like, “Man, how come I'm not getting any customers?” And then, I started looking up “what is marketing.” I was like, “Okay, this is actually a thing.” That's when I started learning more about marketing. My initial foray into marketing was SEO, like black-hat, world-affiliate marketing, CPA stuff. That was for me very interesting. When I first discovered it, I was like, “Oh, this is very interesting.” The reason why I found it so interesting because these affiliate guys were getting these twenty dollars like, “Hey, you can make twenty dollars off this widget that you sell,” so they had to sell it for a hundred twenty bucks to make profit. So, I was like, “Oh, these guys are using cutting edge tactics.” You would join these underground forums or Skype groups of people saying like, “Hey, try this marketing message.” I was like, “Whoa!” I didn't realize marketing is like that – it was like performance for me. I always thought marketing was this branded thing. I didn't know there's this other type of marketing that was purely based on sales. That's what got me at least . . . at that point I wasn't doing ads. It opened up my eyes to this marketing world. I was like, “Oh, everything around you is really marketing, but it's great marketing when you don't think it's marketing.” Behind the scenes, there's guys pulling the levers that's doing the marketing. So, it's like one of those like realizations that you have. I was like, “Okay, this is kind of what I need to do anyways.” I came back to New York because I missed my family. I started my cleaning company called Maid Sailers and here, for this cleaning company, is where I did almost all the marketing. I did SEO. I did reviews, blogging, PPC, Yelp ads, kind of everything. I did that for about a year-and-a-half. I wanted to keep growing it but people that have a service-based company – even some like Moy media – service-based businesses can only grow as you grow people – humans, right? So, it's human capital intense kind of business, which is great to get started. So, I think I tell people, times like these are great businesses start. But if you want to grow it, I didn't think I could grow it that big. So, then I started ecommerce because at that time too I saw all my friends are doing FBA, Amazon, I was like, “I got to jump into this, right?” It's one of those things with FOMO -- I got to do it. Then I did my Montem, which is my outdoor gear company. This was more scalable because, at the time – it was much easier back then with e-commerce products like Amazon. You're selling. Then, again for Montem, when we did e-commerce, I learned so much more. This is kind of where I first started doing more Facebook ads, Google ads, review blogger reviews. We were like number 1 on Wirecutter, so we were able to do partnerships. We did retail. We were pitching retails with the events – kind of like everything involved and, at least for me, that's why I like entrepreneurship in startups because I like all this stuff I just described. If I worked for somebody, I would never be able to do it all. Because you're only stuck in 1 thing where it's like a founder you could just say, “Okay, I'm going to do it all like,” and you figured it out somehow, which is either exciting or not exciting for some people. For me, it's like, “Oh, this is awesome.” I went to China 3 times up to my factories. So that's kind of where the concept of Voy Media came – because I was doing this e-commerce stuff. And then I was like, “Okay, I want to help other founders achieve success,” – that's the inkling, the idea of Voy Media. Of course, what we are now is very different than what I thought initially because you iterate your business based on what you see. But that's how Voy Media started.  ROB: How did you navigate away from those assumptions of the business, from those predispositions that you had? I mean, candidly, folks who come from a software developer background a lot of time have a hard time taking their hands off the keyboard. They want to be writing code, right? So how did you kind of navigate to the truth of the business instead of where you started?  KEVIN: I always tell people that one of the main reasons why I always wanted to do a startup and it's something that I've always like wanted to do since I was 17. But one of the things when I was in Silicon Valley, at least for me when I was 21 or 22 – I don't know, I was probably 23 at the time – very naïve. I was looking at a lot of my friends in the space, like the programmers there, and they would just talk about stuff and I was like, “Oh, wow! These guys are really smart. I don't think I'll ever be that good. I need to do something else because these guys are just awesome programmers.” My roommate, his name was Adam. We worked at the same company and he would talk about a concept. I'm like, “Dude, I have no clue how you just got that!” I thought I was smart but that's kind of what for me I'm like, “I got figure out something else in my life because I want to make money but, clearly, you're on another level.” I was like, “Let me just do business stuff and that's kind of it for me.” Another relationship for me was that I would talk to him or talk to other people like, “Hey, why don't you start a company. You are really smart,” but they're like, “No, I just want to be an employee.” That made me think, “Hey, there's guys like me that want to have a company and then I can hire guys like him that don't want to take the risk,” and you're gonna hire these super smart people that are gonna work for you and that's where the realization came to me, “Hey, I don't have to be the smartest but there's a lot of smart people that don't want to take the risk I want to take, and they could just work for me. Yeah!”  ROB: Yeah, so that's a good lesson to pick up along the way. As you reflect on the journey so far in building the business, what are some other key lessons you might want to go back and just tell yourself if you were starting over? Some good advice.  KEVIN: Good advice is so obvious. But like hiring people – I think once you feel an inkling that a person's not going to work out, you really got to let them go because it's a drain on the company and drain on yourself. That's probably the one people always say but it's also the hardest because people with emotions and working with them. But that's really tough. I think it's getting better, at least for service-based companies, it's just getting really better at vetting the people you work with just because it's a really personal relationship and, if you already feel like they're gonna be a very demanding, upstart, they're probably gonna be demanding the whole relationship and it's just gonna be a battle to please them. That's something I tell my sales team all the time. Like any red flag. I could see an email and I'm like, “This is a red flag. I can tell already this is gonna be a terrible partner to work with. Let's not even sign them,” and they're like, “Why?” I'm like. “Trust me. This one word they said, I pretty much know what they're looking for.” I think another one that's super important, I think for me at least, it's like, “I couldn't do my theme(?) companies. Every company I've done it, it's been with a partner.” You need somebody there to talk to, to help you with the problem, because like any business they're gonna be high highs and low lows. Sometimes you need somebody else to talk to them about it because sometimes you can't tell your employees how you're feeling because then it's like, “I work for you,” and then they're like, “Oh well. If the founder's feeling this way, I can't feel that way either.” Having a partner that's on the same like equal level as you or around that area – you can like tell them the real issues and how you're feeling, so I think a partner is gonna be great. And again, it helps distribute the work depending on what you're doing and how you're splitting the stuff with the business because it's a lot of stuff to do.  ROB: Yeah, is that somebody that you had early in the business or is that somebody you brought in? Is that somebody outside the business for you? What's that look like?  KEVIN: For Voy Media, it's Wilson. I've known him since college. We've literally known each other for over ten years and we've going back to everything before like one tiny bit the Ruby on Rails company. He was my partner there, too, in Silicon Valley. When I moved there, he was in college and I just graduated. And I was like, “Yo, Wilson! I'm moving.” He's like, “I'll move there with you.” So I've known him for a long time. I tell people it really depends. There's these relationships are very . . . You need to be careful because there's a level of trust you already have so you can't really get mad at each other. But again, it's careful. Sometimes things go wrong, you get mad at each other but you know that “Hey, we're doing it because we both” . . . I I think you both need to know the goal of the business. So, it's like, “Hey, this is why I'm like upset with you. It's not that I'm upset about you personally, it's because I'm upset about the business and we both want to achieve this and we're not achieving it together. How do we get there?” So, it's a careful relationship, like any couple. Things are upsetting us. Why? Because we both want to be happy. How do we fix that issue so it's not like I'm attacking you personally? ROB: Right. And if you're partners on that, you got to solve it one way or another. You can't stay grumpy and you can't stay stuck in the mud. It can go sideways pretty quick. So, you had Wilson there really early on in the business.  KEVIN: Yeah.  ROB: What was another kind of key inflection point that you noticed, where you felt like you had to level up the capabilities of the firm? The people in the firm, the processes – were there any kind of chokepoints so far that you had to kind of reevaluate in a significant way? KEVIN: Yeah. I mean like honestly, at least for Voy Media, one of the biggest things that we made was hiring an operations person to really help clean up everything at the agency. Because from reporting to hiring, I think that really helped us. I think it's one of those things where . . . I consider one of those positions where you want to be so involved sometimes. But you need to bring on someone that can do the work for you, that's smarter than you, that you can give complete ownership. I think, with any business, that's probably the hardest part – giving up some part of the business to somebody else to run and just trusting them. That's probably some of the best things that we've done because now the agency has grown quicker. With that comes a few points. One is cash load. You have to have the money to hire somebody good or can you take a little hit on income? That way you know that this person is going to hopefully pay off in six months. As a bootstrap founder, you think about these things but hiring people like that is super helpful.  ROB: Where was the business in terms of size, however you think about it, when you made that operations move?  KEVIN: We were probably like 5 to 6 people. Now we're about 30 people. So, it's definitely grown a lot more now. But yeah, hiring those people – like higher level people are helpful because there's only so many people that are doing the work. Of course, you need those people as well. But you need people thinking about strategy, thinking about processes and systems and that's why it's helpful and again, at least for me, it's the biggest . . . honestly, one of the biggest things too is thinking about yourself as the founder, as the person running the company. What do you want to be doing? I don't want to be doing all this stuff. I want to hire somebody else to do it because that doesn't give me energy. It drains me. I want to be doing what gives me energy, which is podcasting, sales – that's exciting for me. So, I know I'm gonna do a better job and I know I'm gonna be reading books about it whereas like – “Hey, accounting, – I don't want to look this up.” Find somebody else to do it because it's going to drain you and that's going to affect your whole day.  ROB: Wow. That all makes sense. As we look ahead for Voy Media – when you look at either what the company's doing or what will be necessary in the types of marketing that you do – what's coming up that you're excited about?  KEVIN: What we're excited about right now I think, again going back to what I said before, we're working with founders building these great brands. Better for us to work with founders out in the long run – before I was quick. Like, “Hey this month sucked. You guys suck.” It's like, “Oh god, this is a stressful relationship.” It's more like, “Hey, let's build something big and great together,” and again a big thing for us too. It's gonna be the creatives. People are really open to having great images, great creatives. People are more open to trying new things now because they're seeing that Facebook isn't the only platform. There's now Facebook, there's TikTok, there's Instagram stories, like there's all this new stuff out there. It's exciting again to make content. I see that as exciting. Where before people were just like, “I just want to do Facebook ads. Okay.” “Well, TikTok.” “No, I don't know that platform.” Where people are, I think . . . I don't know . . . there's a shift there where people are more open to new stuff now.  ROB: Yeah, it's certainly a shift. It's certainly interesting in terms of openness. How do you think about the difference between what should be legitimately out of bounds for a particular brand versus what is their being flexible in a way that that is actually necessary? People have their experimental budgets. It can't all be experimental but some of it has to be.  KEVIN: I think it just depends what level you are. I think, for example, when we work with consumer companies, all the consumer platform is always great – TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook of course. But if you're a consumer company, Linkedin doesn't make sense because that's more like professional. So, there are certain industries where it's very clear cut like, “Hey, if you're a SaaS or software or marketing company, you should be on LinkedIn because that's where quote – unquote professionals are. We think about it like that. As you get bigger and you're scaling your business, you need to think about platforms outside – like billboard ads are something that's more branded but there's a lot of ways to access those now in like easy platforms stuff. Some of my friends do that because they raise money and they say it's not effective. But I think something that brands need to think about right now is that, before, it was “you just sell online.” Now I'm seeing a big shift of online plus retail as well. So, getting into the Walmarts, the Targets, the Amazon's, the stores – everything like that is so important because it's more omnichannel versus like, “Hey I'm only direct to consumer.” I'm seeing that big shift now, too.  ROB: Right on. When you say the billboard stuff is more accessible, what does that actually look like? Can I go like buy a billboard? Can I buy it where I want it? Can I set what time of day I want to see a digital like, I don't know . . . What can I do?  KEVIN: I forgot the exact website. I'll try to find it later. But yeah, basically you can do exactly that. I think it's ClearView, one of those company that owns it. They now have a website similar to what you said where you can just say like, “Hey, for 100 bucks I want an ad near Times Square.” It makes it super simple and easy. You can just upload your creatives. Before it was kind of what you were saying . . . even subway ads now in New York City, you have to spend 30K minimum to get like one car of subway ads, where it should be self-serve, right? “Okay, I want one car, one creative . . . how much is it gonna cost? All right?” Subway ads are harder because you actually need to print the thing, where some of these new billboards are digital. So yeah, you could do it. I forgot the exact platform but it's cool. I've seen some friends do it just for experimental. It kind of works but it's one of those things where you just try it out and see.  ROB: Sure. I've thought about it. There's some ways . . . maybe it's too creepy . . . but you can almost get account-based marketing. You know a bunch of people for this company come this way, light up this billboard during the commute, leave it shut down during lunchtime – like who knows, right? KEVIN: Yeah. It's funny you're saying that because there's this company . . . they were a remote job board, right? Facebook announced, I think a few months ago, that like, “Hey, starting in 2022, everybody needs to go back to work in the office.” So, then this company took out ads on that highway to say, “Hey, don't want to go back to work? Apply for new jobs here.” But exactly what you're saying. You can know where these things are, they'll pinpoint the area, and then you can do account-based marketing that way. People do this when they launch a Walmart or Target in the city. There will be billboards around there so say, “Hey, look! We're now available at Target down the street!” So, you can do that type of stuff.  ROB: Very interesting. So much to do. So much to learn. Still, Kevin, congrats on the journey so far. Thank you for coming on and sharing with us as well. I wish you well and I know our audience will enjoy what you had to share. KEVIN: Thank you Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.  ROB: Thanks, Kevin take care. Bye 

A podcast for musicians, music lovers, and anyone who loves a good story! In-depth discussions about the music industry & gig life with a variety of musicians & creatives from all over the world!@gigstorieswithmusicpeopleEp. 13 - Kira HooksKira is a singer/songwriter originally from Houston, TX now based in the Bay area. Her latest album Love AtLas(t) is available everywhere including Spotify and even on Vinyl! Kira is an accomplished singer & songwriter and has collaborated with many bands & artists, check out this long list!Ernie Halter (bgvs)**MELD (guitar/bgvs) ** (real name: Melanie Dewey)Dara Tucker (bgvs) **Katie Buxton (bgvs/co-writer) **The Aquaducks (bgvs) John Avila (producer)Kacee Clanton (co-writer)Inbar Starr (co-writer)Steffi Jeraldo (co-writer/bgvs)Ally Brown (bgvs)Yosi Mesbah (bgvs)Lacey Luckett (Lacey Canfield) (co-writer and bgvs)Amirah Shantel (bgvs)Kira Morrison (bgvs)Steve Savage (producer)Jon Estes (producer)Brian Irwin (producer)Markus Chang (producer/cowriter)Ally Brown (bgvs/co-writer)Sadie Hart (bgvs)Mona Najib (co-writer and bgvs)Karlina Covington (bgvs and co-writer)Mike Vadala (lead vocals)Salina Solomon (co-writer)Brooks Hubbard Band (bgvs)Lauren Anderson (bgvs)Madeline Fuhrman (bgvs)D. Sauls (co-writer) S-Wrap (co-writer) Alayna Renae (bgvs)Dawn Red-Sun (bgvs)Nova Mariéé (bgvs)Fernanda Alba (bgvs)Andi Marie (bgvs)Alyssa Jacey (bgvs)Kevin So (co-writer and bgvs)Jimmy Borja (co-writer and bgvs)Shiloh Mae (bgvs)Raymond Joseph (co-writer)Quinn DeVeaux (bgvs)Michelle Ariane (co-writer and bgvs)Kaely Yuchno (bgvs)steve savage (co-writer)Check out www.kirahooks.com and on ig @kirahooks for more!Host:Evan Mykl Chudnow @evanonthebass @the_spaceminthttps://www.thespacemint.com/http://www.evanonthebass.com/https://gig-stories-music-people.captivate.fm*At the moment I have no sponsors, so if you'd like to support this podcast the best thing is to share it on social media or with someone who might be interested! If you want to go above and beyond that and help ensure more episodes you can also purchase my music at https://evanmykl.bandcamp.com/ or even make a contribution on Venmo @Evan-TheSpacemint any help is very much appreciated!Thank you for listening!

We welcome episode 2 with Kevin So or Coach Kevin So (as we like to call him). We call him that because he probably has given more coaching advice to the likes of us (Mikhail & Coy) who are students of the game. Well, who exactly is this guy anyway!? Well in the local scenes of Iligan, Cagayan de Oro City, Manila, and many more he is known to the CrossFit community as a champion and the fittest Iliganon not so long ago. We dive into his fitness journey, "MINDSET", diet, insights, many more, and more importantly “MODERATION.” If you enjoy this, give us a follow on Spotify or drop some feedback on Apple Podcasts. Check us out on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQc5ztdXoEc2CK2Rzw6QEBw as Huge Upside TV, and if you love the visual experience more than the audio then smash that subscribe button so you can be notified for future videos.

Insurance is a topic that most people avoid talking about because it feels very boring and involves the thought of loss. The thing that people need to understand is that Insurance is a necessary part of life and that strange things have a way of happening at very unfortunate times. This means that being prepared for catastrophic events is a critical part of life. To be properly prepared, we must first become educated. Kevin and Doug talk about how insurance works and provide some practical tips for optimizing your profile to ensure you carry the coverage you need at the lowest total cost possible. Kevin Baty is a broker for Hagen Hamilton Insurance Solutions. Connect with him at: Kevin@haganhamilton.com Doug's business specializes in partnering with companies and non-profits to create value and capture cost savings without layoffs to fund growth and strengthen financial results.  You can find out more at http://www.terminalvalue.biz ( www.TerminalValue.biz) You can find the audio podcast feed athttp://www.terminalvaluepodcast.com ( www.TerminalValuePodcast.com) You can find the video podcast feed athttp://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg ( www.youtube.com/channel/UCV5a4QbT-dXhpgb-8HJHdGg) Schedule time with Doug to talk about your business athttp://www.meetdoug.biz ( www.MeetDoug.Biz) [Music] [Introduction] Welcome to the terminal value Podcast where each episode provides in depth insight about the long term value of companies and ideas in our current world. Your host for this podcast is Doug Utberg, the founder and principal consultant for Business of Life, LLC. Doug: Here and Kevin Baty has the auspicious honor or maybe you wouldn't say it that way.  Depending on who you are of being my insurance agent because we are going to talk about some insurance dynamics today because in my conversations with Kevin I actually learned a lot of things that were a little counterintuitive and I thought that those would be good things to share with people just because you know insurance is kind of you know a murky subject and a lot of people feel like it's pretty boring. And you know while it's not necessarily the thing that lights everybody's fire so to speak. There are some insurance things that you really should know about and I'm just gonna let one of the cats out of the bag first. The one that surprised me the most is if you see a deer crossing the road instead of swerving you're actually supposed to just plow right into the deer because if you swerve and hit a tree that's a collision claim that goes on your record. If you just hit the deer that's a comprehensive claim that doesn't change your rates and I know about that thanks to this guy right here. Kevin welcome to the terminal value podcast.  Kevin: Thanks for having me Doug, very excited to be here and yeah the misnomer with a deer like I mean you feel for it. You don't want to. Doug: Oh right. Kevin: Damage your vehicle or anything but you know it's kind of tough to tell clients that if you see a deer on the road and you can't stop you just have to plow through it for your insurance safety pretty much because if you plow right through it's covered under comprehensive coverage and you know. Yes it's a claim but there's not a surcharge with it like there would be is if you left the roadway to swerve to miss a deer and you total your vehicle anyways well now it's an at-fault accident because you left the roadway. So lots of claims are paid out every year especially in Oregon, Washington and all across the united states on claims for people hitting deer and it's in the multi-millions of dollars it's just. Doug: Wow that is wow. Kevin: So when in doubt I mean easier said than done. I even you know I'm an avid hunter. Doug: Yap. Kevin: And I don't want to plow through a deer. Doug: Oh no no nobody does. But that's yeah that's that's one of the things that's that yeah that one surprised me....

We’ve all been there. It’s late at night, you’re flipping through the channels and you stop on CNBC. Chances are there is an old episode of Shark Tank playing, and sitting in one of those leather chairs you might have seen Kevin Harrington, one of the original sharks. Now think back many years ago, you’re still flipping through the channels, but this time you stop on an infomercial for a George Foreman Grill or a Tony Little Gazelle. Did you know you were actually seeing Kevin there, too? Maybe not physically, but Kevin’s fingerprints and dollars were very much present in those “as-seen-on-TV” specials.  Kevin was the pioneer of the television infomercial, and, therefore, the direct-to-consumer industry. And when the internet emerged, Kevin was one of the first to move his sales online. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, we grabbed Kevin for a quick interview to discuss his latest book, Mentor To Millions, and asked him to take us through his transition from TV powerhouse to digital investor. Kevin explains some of the key areas he looks at when determining if a company is worth investing in, and he details some of the ways that eCommerce companies should be thinking about marketing and product strategy.    3 Takeaways:   If You Don’t Have Marketing Money, Get Marketing Money: It is impossible to have a successful business if no one knows you exist. No matter how small a company might be, marketing has to be a top priority and, when spent wisely, whatever you invest in marketing has the potential to lead to huge ROI. Follow the Customers: The move toward eCommerce began in the mid-1990s when TV infomercials started putting website addresses at the bottom of the screen. Suddenly, companies saw that customers were opting to bypass telephone operators and place the orders themselves, and from there, ecommerce as we know it emerged. By always testing new ways to capture customers, you create opportunities to discover and encourage new types of buying behavior. Exit This Way: What’s more valuable than a product? A brand. And with the marketing tools available today, the ability to create a brand that customers love and trust is easier than ever before. Big buyers everywhere are eager to tap into these niche, high-conversion networks, which in turn, creates exit opportunities for smaller companies that never would have existed in the past.    For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length. --- Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce --- Transcript: Stephaine: Welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, and today I'm really excited. We have Kevin Harrington on the show, the OG original shark from Shark Tank and the CEO of Harrington Enterprises. Kevin, welcome. Kevin: Stephanie, thanks for having me. Looking forward to having some fun today. Stephaine: Oh, me too. Your background is so interesting. I feel like I can't even do it justice, going through how you started out in the world of e-commerce. So, I was hoping you could actually touch on that, of where did you start in Ecommerce? Because I see you listed as the original everything. The infomercial guy, the guy who created this stuff. So, I want you to put it in your words how you started out in this industry. Kevin: Okay. Yeah. So, I started... I was a young entrepreneur back in Cincinnati, Ohio, one of six kids, and I had started a... Getting, ordered cable television. And so, I remember I got a 30 channel package. This was, now, early eighties. And so, I'm going through my 30 channels, 24 hours of sports on ESPN and 24 hours of movies on HBO. I get to Channel 30 and there's nothing there. So, I call the cable company and I said, "Hey, look. I love this cable, all these channels, 29 of them. But I'm paying for 30. Nothing on channel, Discovery Channel." Kevin: And so, they said, "Oh, Discovery is our latest channel. It's brand new. They don't have a budget for 24 hours a day. They do an 18 hour a day schedule. Six hours is nothing." And so, that's when the light bulb went off. I'm thinking, "Wait." I said... I literally said to the person, "If I have something to put on that six hours, would you be interested?" "Hey, yeah. Come on down. Talk to us. We're definitely... Whatever you're thinking." Kevin: So, anyway, make a long story short, I started putting products on Discovery Channel back in the early eighties. I then tied up that six-hour block on the nationwide level at the parent, Discovery, which was in now tens of millions of homes. And so... And again, this is back in the early eighties and we were doing the Food Saver, the Jack LaLanne Juicer, the Tony Little Fitness, George Foreman, Billy Mays. We even started getting into mainstream celebrities like Paris Hilton and her lip plumpers and the Kardashians and their skin care and things like this. So, we got involved, and this was early on, the early eighties. Nobody else was doing this, so people call me the inventor of the modern day infomercial. Kevin: So, that's when it all started and we've, over the years, gone public with a few companies. Build them, sell them, build them, sell them. I like entrepreneurship and bringing in the right kind of team of people to help, but... So, as we were then selling products on TV, that was the beginning of my entry into the marketplace and I think as we started getting more sophisticated, things started happening down the road, where we started putting websites. Of course, in the early eighties, websites didn't exist, right? It wasn't until, I believe, around '94 that things started. I mean, Amazon started in '94. I was in business for a dozen years before Amazon ever started. So, selling products direct to the consumer. Kevin: And in the nineties, we started putting websites into our infomercials and wow. All of a sudden, we found a certain percentage of the people, they didn't want to call the operator. They wanted to go straight to that website, get all of the details, and now we found a whole new area business between websites and Amazon and digital and now when you look at Facebook, etc. etc., it's a whole new world. Stephaine: That's awesome. So, what does your role look like today? I read that you have launched more than 20 businesses that have grown to over 100 million in sales each, so I wanted to hear kind of what are you doing today and what kind of principles are you using that you've learned from the many years that you've been doing this? Kevin: So, that first company that I mentioned, we ended up being a public company in a little bit of a complicated transaction. But here we were, public on the New York Stock Exchange. The stock was sitting at a dollar a share and I started bringing the right kind of people on board and you give options and things to people. But make a long story short, a few years later, that stock went to $20, and so I was one of the co-founders and had millions of shares, so this was my first chance to be like... And take some chips off the table, as they say, right? So... Because I was building my business all those years, putting all my own personal cash back into building the business until we had a public company, then I could use other people's money. We had lines of credit and all kinds of amazing things. So, that was the first public company that I got involved with and we had great success with it. So, I thought to myself, look, yes. I can make money selling products, but I can also make money driving share prices in public companies. Kevin: So, since then, fast forward, I like to participate in public companies. I like to be on the board if that's important for me from their standpoint. Also, there's hardcore board of directors of public companies. There's also advisory boards. So, as I invest in companies and take board seats and things, I'm involved now in about north of 10 public companies in some significant fashion, meaning I own equity, shares, board position, advisory seats, whatever. I mean, for example, one of my companies I got involved with five years ago was a little company called CELSIUS and it's an energy drink that... I don't know. Have you ever heard of CELSIUS [crosstalk 00:06:14]? Stephaine: Yes, I've... Yes, I have. Kevin: Okay. So, I got involved at a start-up, CELSIUS. The stock was 22 cents a share and again, I got a nice package when I got involved with these guys. But the stock yesterday hit $19, okay? So, I mean, it's... So, when you think about... When you get in in the beginning and get a big block and that block goes to a big number, that is wealth creation. So, I can talk about national media. I can talk about another one As Seen On TV, another one [inaudible] Travel Biz. I'm involved in various of these pub-cos. Some of them have product, some of them... Most of them have some kind of relation to what I can bring to the table. But I will say this. Almost every single one of them needs the expertise of Ecom and selling and doing digital marketing to create, whether it's customer acquisition or investor acquisition or friendly participant in whatever it might be, the acquisition of names and value to the company. Kevin: So, generally, when I join the board of a public company or the advisory board of a public company, I'll be helping bring some of the things that I've been dealing with and learning about over the last 30-some years in the world of Ecom and internet and digital. So, it... I think my focus now, since I've had great success with helping small pub-cos grow and create value for their shareholders, that's something that's near and dear to me and I love participating in those kind of opportunities. Stephaine: That's awesome. So, how are you able to build buzz or advise your companies to build buzz in the way that you were when you were using traditional media streams like TV? How can you have that same experience online or through word of mouth and conversions online? How are you advising your companies to get that same kind of buzz that you had generated in your past life? Kevin: [inaudible] If we went through... If we take a look at CELSIUS, for example. Let's look at that industry. CELSIUS was a start-up five years ago going against Red Bull and Monster, two of the biggest companies out there that had tremendous shelf space already. So, they started down the path of getting shelf space and they were successful at getting some space here and there, but what we also created was a direct to the consumer side of the business where we started bringing on influencers, big ones like Flo Rida, Khloe Kardashian, etc. And then micro-influencers, fitness influencers. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fitness influencers, micro-influencers, out there on some arrangement that we've made with them to blast all of the information out about CELSIUS, why they love it, why they use it. And these are people... Many of them that approached us because they were users of our product. Kevin: So, now what's happened... So, for example, Flo Rida. He had 26 million followers. He created an amazing buzz to the point where one of his followers and friends was Khloe Kardashian. Well, she said, "Hey, Flo. I love this CELSIUS. Can you get me some cases of it?" So, we're shipping her cases, Flo cases, hundreds of fitness influencers, and now our Amazon business is just crushing it. So, I mean, this is... You can't just sit and wait for it to happen. You got to build the buzz. Kevin: And by the way, there's one thing that I did not say we did. The old days of as seen on TV... I used to spend, some years, as much as $100 million on television. ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, Discovery, Lifetime, all the cable networks, hundreds and hundreds of broadcast stations around the country. But it's very, very expensive and the brand, a product like CELSIUS, in the world of as seen on TV would cost millions, if not tens of millions. So, we chose to go in the newer and much more direct way by utilizing micro-influencers and we've had a great run. The product is now in 165,000 stores, but it's also being supported by the social media influence marketplace. Stephaine: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, really great story. So, someone does not have connections or even maybe a budget big enough to give them even a micro-influencer. What would you suggest to a new DTC startup who's trying to get in front of people? What kind of digital channel are you advising your companies to try out or marketing methods or anything? How would you tell a new person starting out, this is the things that you should look into that are working right now? Kevin: Well, if they don't have the budget, I'd recommend that they go raise some money and get a budget, okay? So... Because if you are in business and you say, "Well, I don't have a budget for the Facebook or Instagram." I mean, this is where you have to test, these outlets, because... I mean, I had a product that somebody brought me two years ago. They had attempted to sell it in stores and on QVC and different places and they got shut down because nobody had ever heard about it. There was no branding. And so, we started running some very inexpensive $5 ads on Facebook and then Instagram and for $5,000 in ads, we brought in $25,000 in credit card orders. Amazing, right? Stephaine: Yeah. That's great. Kevin: Now, these folks that owned the company, we had a partnership now where we're starting to run this and so we were spending 100,000 a week, bringing in 400,000 a week in sales. Making money, paying for itself, unbelievable. So, don't tell me as an entrepreneur, "I don't have the budget." Because for five grand, you can test and you're going to find out. You may be... That... What happens... If you bring in 25,000 in sales off a $5,000 spend, that's self-liquidates, makes money and you're in a big profit position. So, you have to figure out a way to test the digital forces out there. Kevin: The other thing you can do... I know some groups that represent a lot of influencers and there are some people taking aggressive positions, where maybe you could talk them into taking a little equity position in your company in exchange for exposure from groups of influencers, so... Because these big master influencing organizations that have... I know companies, they have 800 influencers that they work with. Well, they pay them, but there's nothing that says they couldn't dribble down some stock or some equity to some of them also, and I think... I'm aware of some companies that are now starting to do equity-based influence marketing and so, I think you're going to see something like that taking storm in the near future. Stephaine: That's really interesting. So, when you're picking companies to either go on their board or help them, what kind of metrics are you looking at for these Ecommerce companies that lets you know whether they're going to be a winner or not? What kind of things are you looking for to pick who you're going to support? Kevin: Well, I like to see that they're spending money on media or influencers or some form of getting distribution. And so, if a company is... They say, "Okay. We've got $100,000 a month budget and $25,000 a week, and we're going to go spend it in an area." I like to see returns on that investment. I like to see at least a one-to-one back, meaning you spend 100,000, you're bringing back 100-plus, at least 100 in sales. But I really prefer to see more like 200 minimum, because now that is now where you're getting to a self-liquidating situation. Kevin: So, the most ideal client or investment for me is when I come into a company that is spending money and actually making money on the spend, but they don't have the money for the media, they don't have the money for the inventory, so they need capital. That is a perfect thing for me because once we plug the capital in, the sales are going to start blossoming and there actually will be self-liquidation so the media, it won't be expensed. It's sort of like an investment to the future profit. So, I think that's... In an ideal scenario, somebody that has a business that has a media spend that's paying for itself. That is, first and foremost, the number one thing that I look for. Stephaine: Well, makes sense. So, for more start-up companies and public companies, do you see them struggling with a lot of the same problems or is it just completely different? And if so, what do you see them hung up on right now, in this environment? Kevin: So, I mean, I think start-ups are different, generally, than public companies. Usually, a public company is working off... The reason they've gone public is because they've figured out a model that generally works and so they want to tell the public, "Hey, look. We've figured this out. We've got the customer acquisition cost figured out and we've got long-term lifetime value of our customers figured out and we just need money to go... And when we go public, we sell stock, we raise money to build the business." Right? Now, that's generally the kind of pub-cos that I like to get involved with. They're kind of over that start-up phase. Kevin: The challenge with start-ups is getting to that point of proof of concept, knowing that you've got something and/or having... And I... Being an old DR guy, back to the old days of selling Ginsu knives and Food Savers and Tony Little Gazelles and Jack LaLanne juicers, I'm an old school guy that likes to see customer acquisition models that work. So, I highly recommend... If a start-up is trying to raise capital, if they can show me an economic model for customer acquisition, I'm in. I mean, it's then a much easier deal because I can see the money is going in and it's going to build the business. I don't like to sink money in that's going to be used for salaries and start-up costs and software and all these things. I like to see money that gets invested into marketing programs that focus on increasing sales and getting new customers. Kevin: So, if a start-up... I mean, if you look at a lot of these modern day start-ups, the Caspers, the Romans, the... I mean, even... There's one. What's the one called? Oh. I'll think of it in just a second, but it's BarkBox, okay? Where people get a box for their dog every month, right? Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: Well, what they were doing was using customer videos. People would open the box every month with their dog and show all the excitement and the fun they were having, and these customer videos were being sent out to millions of people, acquiring new customers. So, they've built a $250 million business with their customers sending out things on Instagram because they were excited about the product. So, they had... They had proof of concept, they had a business model that worked and a customer acquisition model that worked. Stephaine: Very cool. So, what are some... I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of different models of customer acquisition. What are some of the most creative ones or timeless ones that continue to work? Kevin: Well, I mean, I think... Let's start with the one I just mentioned because when... This is... BarkBox is a company that, they didn't start on TV like the "as seen on TV." No. That would have cost them millions. They went... They reached out to their customers and so... There's another girl that started a beauty company and she was an intern at Vogue and she went out and started blogging and getting all kinds of information out. She wanted to start her own brand, direct to the consumer, and this is now a billion dollar brand and for some reason, the name of it is escaping me. Kevin: The bottom line is, how did she build a billion dollar company from zero, right? I mean, it was... It's literally amazing. But how she did it was micro-influencers. She recruited 1.7 million micro-influencers and this just took off and built her company into a billion dollar brand. Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: But the bottom line is I had nothing to do with this company. I just watched her and followed her from intern to billion dollar business, and that's exciting for me as an entrepreneur, to see young entrepreneurs doing this. I think the folks that started the businesses Rent The Runway and the clothing companies that, you would get a box every month, those are companies that focused on really tight acquisition costs for their clientele, etc., etc. But I just... I love hearing about these stories, when somebody starts from zero, is an intern at a magazine and a couple years later, running a billion dollar brand. Stephaine: Yep. Yeah. I love that. That's awesome. We will look her up and put it in the show notes. Kevin: Okay. Stephaine: So, one last question before we dive also into your book. What big trend or patterns do you see coming to Ecommerce right now? Any disruptions or things that you see impacting Ecommerce in the next year? Kevin: Well, the big old Amazon is up there, kind of waving its big wand over the whole industry in the product side of the business, okay? And so, I will tell you, what's happening is I'm seeing entrepreneurs start a single product business, get it on Amazon and then somebody comes along, wants to buy them. This is pretty cool because you don't have to have a $100 million business, a $50 million business or even 10 million. You could be doing two, three million dollars a year and someone might be willing to pay you eight or 10 million for that. So, I mean, there is an amazing trend right now. I know people, they're doing roll-ups, as they call them. Stephaine: Yep. Kevin: They're buying companies that... They'll buy them on a multiple of sales or earnings and then, as a big company, they've got an attractive blended situation that allows for their multiples to work for them and then packaging these companies and selling them off. So, I think the difference today versus, let's say, me when I was starting close to 40 years ago, back in the early eighties and I'm running Tony Little and Jack LaLanne. We only thought about just selling a lot of product, building these sales and maybe go public. But we weren't selling these brands. We never thought about, "Oh, let me go sell Tony Little's Gazelle product. Let me go sell the Jack LaLanne Juicer as a company." Right? But it's... Kevin: Now, this is what's happening. People that start a product business realize it is a business and it might be worth... If you got a business that's doing 30 million in sales, it could be worth two or three times sales. It might be worth $60 or $90 million. I mean, these are things that people that are entrepreneurs need to explore because the key thing is there are exit strategies for entrepreneurs today, unlike the old days where it was a lot tougher to find somebody to buy an old asset that you had. Stephaine: Yep. I love that. Very inspiring. All right, so you have a new book out, Mentor to Millions. I want to hear a little bit about that. What is the book about? Tell us all the details. Kevin: [crosstalk] Mentor to Millions, it's myself and my co-author, Mark Timm. Now... And actually, it's very interesting. The foreword is buy Tom Ziglar, Zig Ziglar's son, so... Stephaine: Oh, I love Zig Ziglar. Kevin: Oh, yeah. Me too. And Zig was a mentor to me and he was also a mentor to Mark Timm, and the family, after Zig passed away, introduced Mark and I and said, "You guys should be doing business because you're two good guys that my father mentored." And so, make a long story short, this is a book about mentoring. It's a book... I mean, we turned this manuscript in in January, long before there was any real buzz about COVID crisis and the pandemic. But once the pandemic hit, March, April, and our book... It's just coming out now. It actually launches in September, so right now it's only pre-order and I'll tell folks about that. But the bottom line is it's about how to get a mentor, how to find a mentor, how to utilize the mentor in your world, because I have used many mentors in many ways, and what they did for me is they helped me take my business growth exponential. And not just added on business, but geometrically exponential is what happened for me when I got mentored by the right folks. Kevin: So, Mark and I... It's... I'm the mentor in the book and he's the mentee and it's a story of our relationship and the magical transformation that occurs in the process. So, it's a powerful book about mentoring and how and why and where and all of that. But we're pretty excited because Hay House is the publisher, launches next month. We've got a lot of effort going into it and if anybody would be interested in hearing more about it, they can go to kevinmentor.com and there's an explanation of the book and all about the chapters and the follow-through from me mentoring Mark along the way of building his business. So, thanks for asking. I appreciate that, Stephanie. Stephaine: Yep. That's awesome. We will definitely be checking that out. We will link it up and Kevin, thanks so much for joining the show. Kevin: Hey, it was great to be here. Stay safe and healthy. Take care. Stephaine: Thanks, Kevin.

Success takes time. We all have 24-hours in a day, and it is up to us to decide to be productive with those hours. WTR welcomes John Soforic, self-made millionaire and author of The Wealthy Gardener. The Wealthy Gardener: Lessons on Prosperity between Father and Son is about timeless principles to empower everyday people to get more impact from their days. In today’s episode, we discuss how having a goal for financial freedom will create peace of mind and a worry-free space for achieving an unparalleled quality of life, which will in turn create more success and prosperity in your life. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. John talks about the episode: http://wealthygardener.com/wealth-tactic-rebels-podcast/ John Soforic Website http://www.wealthygardener.com (http://www.wealthygardener.com/) LinkedIn URL https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-soforic-727b94140/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-soforic-727b94140/) Facebook URL https://www.facebook.com/wealthygardener/ (https://www.facebook.com/wealthygardener/) Twitter URL https://twitter.com/wealthygardener (https://twitter.com/wealthygardener) YouTube URL https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6RFjgSllX0wW6nNUlzz44g (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6RFjgSllX0wW6nNUlzz44g) NOTES: [00:28] Kevin: Today, we're joined by guest John Soforic. We are going to be discussing The Wealthy Gardener, John's philosophy and way of living for prosperity [01:55] Why don't you share more with our listeners about where you came from and what inspired you to do what you do today? [02:02] John: I really am a self-made millionaire that have lived an honorable life and won the life of finances [03:56] There were times when my family slept all night but I wasn't sure how I was going to buy groceries, and when you go through those times it really does change you. When you stop asking yourself if money makes you happy and you start saying if you had money you could do a lot of things with it (rather than chasing a dollar) [04:53] I traded a lot of hours for dollars and I didn't have a whole lot to show for it [06:30] I set a really large goal that I didn't have to think or worry about money. You can give your thoughts to more important things than money (passive income) [07:10] We all have this financial condition of life and life is so much better [07:50] I really believe you can learn your way up in life and you learn through learning curves [08:15] Kevin: I think sometimes that thought of "who am I?" Is a limiting thought to people (who am I to do this? This person is better to do this)[08:30] That can hold you out from learning, seeking, and achieving [09:00] John: When you're asking yourself that question "who am I", that's when you're in a good place in your life (living on the edge of your capacity, trying to strive for your fullest potential, doing things you don't really know you can do[09:08] You have to turn that around because those are the invisible things that hold you back (if you expand that idea, it opens up possibilities in many ways) [09:45] Kevin: So many times people believe that money is the root of all evil and wealthy people are jerks and that's a particular mindset about money that may or may not be true (money is a thing)[10:05] Money is not evil, it just kind of is, it's what people do with it [10:10] The problem that people have when they do bad things for money is not to get money, it's because they don't have it (the lack of money) [10:36] John: "Money isn't the root of all evil, the lack of money is the root of all evil" [11:25] There are more important things in this world than money, but you can't focus on those important things if you don't have the money to worry about [12:03] I do believe that if your eyes are wide open and you can see the future, you will see that you can protect your family with more...

Have you found it difficult to quiet your mind in busy and stressful times? Maybe, you are so fixated on the outcome of something that you let your emotions take over. What if we told you that you could quiet your mind in order to make peace with your life decisions? WTR joins Matthew Ferry, a best-selling author, life coach, and spiritual teacher. Today, we discuss how it is important to recognize a worst-case scenario for everything in order to make peace with your life. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. Matthew Ferrybest-selling author, life coach and spiritual teacherWebsite http://matthewferry.com (http://matthewferry.com/) Website #2 http://blog.matthewferry.com (http://blog.matthewferry.com/) Website #3 https://matthewferry.com/app (https://matthewferry.com/app) LinkedIn URL https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewferrypublicspeaker/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewferrypublicspeaker/) Facebook URL https://www.facebook.com/matthewferry (https://www.facebook.com/matthewferry) Twitter URL https://twitter.com/matthew_ferry (https://twitter.com/matthew_ferry) YouTube URL https://www.youtube.com/matthewferry (https://www.youtube.com/matthewferry) NOTES: [00:28] Kevin: Today, I'm joined by a definite outside the box thinker Matthew Ferry. Today's topic is mindset for preservation and generation. We will be talking about the impact of not taking care of your mindset and the impact of taking care of it [01:12] Would you mind sharing with our listeners a little bit about where you came from and what inspired you to do what you do today? [01:20] Matthew: The main thing that I do today is assist people to be at peace while creating the kind of life they want to create (quiet mind, epic life) [03:53] When you have a quiet mind, you adopt that skillset. You find yourself in the present moment and that means you're free from stress and worry which is a big deal [04:27] When you're stressed, you make bad decisions and you don't see things clearly and your energy is diminished [04:52] Kevin: So you have basically a series of techniques that you can help train people with that help with all of this. So let's talk about that and what our listeners can do [05:05] Matthew: We want to start with this idea of the rapid enlightenment process. Proven 4 step process to try to get the mind to quiet down and to stop being so stressed out in order to take action (be at peace in the process) [05:40] See that your mind is not your friend [05:58] You don't listen to your mind like it's a trusted advisor; you listen to your mind like a survival system (what it is... thriving vs. surviving) [07:08] Recognize that there are 10 hidden motives to survive. If you don't understand what these motives are, they actually run the show (greed, grudge, hatred, victim, illogical rules, humble, traitor, pride, resistance, and lazy) [07:43] To use enlightened perspectives that assume that all is well [07:50] Use something called re-contextualization (a skill of re-languaging that all is well) [08:35] What do we do to make the mind go quiet? [08:45] You have to embrace the worst case scenario (then make a plan from there) [12:50] Embrace and celebrate breakdown/failure [12:56] A quiet mind isn't possible when you are resisting the way that life is [13:38] 70% of the real big negatives in your life overtime optimize for something good [14:28] Breakdown is the beginning of breakthrough [15:43] Kevin: How about practicing being at peace amidst the chaos? [16:07] Matthew: Being at peace is the ultimate expression of quiet mind and it takes practice. To achieve it, you have to be able to catch the "drunk monkey" in reaction (for all the negative self-talk) [16:43] Your mind is absolutely convinced that it's psychic and that it can predict the future. So questioning...

For Kris' special offer, please leave a review for this episode on your choice platform, then https://ardorseo.com/ (https://ardorseo.com/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coolestguyinseo/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/coolestguyinseo/) NOTES: [00:28] Kevin: Today, our guest is Kris Reid. We are going to be discussing getting more customers easily. Kris is founder of ArdorSEO, and he's an expert on how to put yourself out there. Would you mind sharing with our listeners where you came from and what inspired you to do what you do today? [02:20] Kris: I wondered what the hell am I going to do with my life? And being a computer geek, I wanted to learn a new type of programming. So I started programming this new type of online game, and I wondered how you get people to the website to start playing it, and that's where I learned about SEO [03:30] I didn't have a grand master plan to go into SEO, I just kind of stumbled into it and thought it was really cool [04:35] Two problems that you get with working through an agency when we don't own the customer directly, is you don't have enough influence and often if you're in an agency you're too scared to say anything [05:00] Sometimes rather than giving the customer what they want, you have to give them what they need and sometimes that's a hard decision [05:15] An advantage to working with the actual business owner is they have a passion about what they do. So you get to help uncover said passion and why they got into business and help them grow their business and help make the world a better place [05:50] Kevin: It's important to like what you do and to feel good about it and somehow be adding to the world [06:38] You do what you do because you found this unique path that helps people out and adds a positive aspect to the world. So SEO (search engine optimization). Why should our listeners care about this? [06:55] Kris: It sounds like such a boring topic and it doesn't have to be. It's such a new topic since most business owners don't know about it. If they knew about it, they'd already be doing it[07:10] If you think about every other form of marketing (ex: having a billboard or a TV ad or Facebook ad), it's interrupt marketing. What's more effective is someone actively searching for what they need and exactly what you do. So having your message right where they're looking, what's more powerful than that? [08:00] Unless you're a photographer or sell beauty, a website doesn't have to look beautiful. It just needs to be found (needs to convey your message and show that you're an expert) [09:17] Kevin: And that's where your company comes in. Trying to get that website in front of the people who are trying to look for that website or service that you're offering [09:25] Kris: Yeah and the very first step with this is key word research. You need to understand what your customers are searching for and in what quantity and how competitive those key words are [11:27] Kevin: So your own website could be competing against itself for rankings on the Google searches? [11:32] Kris: Yeah you need to make it really clear to Google which pages are most important and which pages rank for which key word (need to have their own topic) [13:50] A little trick that everyone can do themselves to analyze their own website is if you go to Google and type "site: your domain name" that'll show all the pages you have listed in Google and in what Google sees as the most important pages (the first should be your main website)[14:25] The thing you want to look at is what do all your pages look like because that's how they're going to come up on Google search [18:23] You need to build a strategy to first get your website earning money now and mix that with the long game (good balance between making money now and making money later) [19:08] The vast majority of businesses go out of business because they can't get enough customers

Have you ever wanted to become better at managing your day-to-day money in order to help prepare you for success? Maybe you have a large amount of debt and don’t know how to figure out a better way to manage your money. It all starts with a mindset shift. Today, WTR welcomes Linda Hannon, the founder of Real Family Finance, which provides online classes to teach women how to manage their money. In today’s podcast, we will be discussing 5 key points to thinking differently about managing your money. This episode will ultimately help you with making a plan to manage your money and build more wealth. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. Linda Hannon Linda is the founder of Real Family Finance, online classes to teach women how to manage money. Website https://realfamilyfinance.com/ (https://realfamilyfinance.com/) LinkedIn URL https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindahannon/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindahannon/) Facebook URL https://www.facebook.com/RealFamilyFinance (https://www.facebook.com/RealFamilyFinance) YouTube URL https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK-aKdi0Jn-5EKDyfKmI7Mw (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK-aKdi0Jn-5EKDyfKmI7Mw) NOTES: [00:27] Kevin: Today we're joined by Linda Hannon, the founder of Real Family Finance which is online classes to teach women how to manage money. If you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about where you came from and what inspired you to get to where you are today. [01:02] Linda: I was in the corporate world for over 30 years[01:10] I used to specialize in companies that were in distress (crisis management) [01:36] Like a lot of people, in my early 20s I felt like I had not been taught how money works, and even though I did it for a living, I did not get my personal finances under control [04:30] I went on a mission on how my personal finances worked, and I had an advantage due to the accounting background, but it was hard[04:44] Took classes but the classes only covered a piece of something, not the whole thing [05:02] In accounting, they didn't teach how to manage your personal finances or how to budget. They would teach you how to count money that came in, but they wouldn't teach you how to proactively plan [05:42] It took me years and a lot of mistakes along the way before I figured it out, but I eventually came up with something that worked for me[05:56] I was at a networking event and a woman asked me: Do you do for people what you do for businesses? [06:28] I started teaching live classes and took off from there [06:32] I was amazed to realize that no one knows how money works, there are no resources [06:38] Kevin: There really isn't. It's one of the reasons for this WTR podcast and that there needs to be more coaches out there[06:44] To help you understand what the tactics are on how you manage your money [07:14] Linda: I think we both talk about the same thing and that is that you can't think in pieces, you need to have a fundamental base to work from and then there's a place to drop the pieces into[07:25] If you don't have that fundamental base and a fundamental plan, then nothing is going to work or it's going to be very painful [07:36] Kevin: Hope is a great thing to have, but it's not a plan [07:42] Linda: As we both know, one of the big factors for money is time [08:08] Kevin: So, today we're talking about thinking about managing your money and the 5 key points to thinking differently so that you can help prepare for that success [08:35] Linda: The 5 pieces that I talk about as my baseline are:[08:54] Budgeting (people need this all the time)[09:09] Understanding how much money is coming into your life and figuring out where it's going, and then having both happen with purpose [09:21] You have some control over how much money comes into our lives [09:35] People have more control over their spending than they think...

Engineering Influence sat down with Matt Murello and Kevin Peterson to get an update on ACEC Coalitions.Transcript:Host: Welcome to another edition of Engineering Influence, a Podcast by the American Council of Engineering companies. Today we are very happy to bring you an coalition update and to give us an update on what's happening in coalitions we welcome coalitions Chair, Kevin Peterson. He's president and CEO of P2S Incorporated out of long beach, California and coalition Chair-elect, Matt Murello, president of Louis S. Goodfriend and Associates. He's out of Chester, New Jersey. So welcome to you both and one of who, kind of start off with a update on advocacy and the coalitions, what's happening in advocacy.Kevin: Thank you, Jeff. This is Kevin. And currently we're developing our 2020 coalition advocacy agenda in consultation with the ACEC advocacy and external affairs department. We're happy to report that our coalitions continue to be strong contributors to the ACEC PAC. Last year we were represented 55% of the total PAC dollars from our members, up a couple percentage points from the previous year.Host: And that's really good news. The PAC is one of our strongest tools to advocate our position so that is good news. From the membership side of the coin, where are things looking at coalitions?Matt: Thanks Jeff. This is Matt Murello. And so every year, one of our coalitions or sometimes too, we have a recruitment drive, which is steered by the the ExCom of that coalition. And this year we started a new drive for the geo professionals coalition in November, netted 16 new members. And we also implemented a recruitment drive for both CAMEE, COPS and Land Development, which got us six more community volunteers. So we're looking forward to continuing to increase our numbers. I believe we're up by another 2% this year. And continuing to spread the word of the value of coalitions.Host: That's fantastic. That's, that's, that's key because membership into the coalitions, it's easier than people think. And we need to get the word out there for ACEC members that it doesn't take much to join. And recruitment efforts like that, recruitment drives are critically important to start getting more people involved. And one of the benefits one of the benefits once you are a member is education which is another big area that we're looking to work on. So what's happening with education sessions with coalitions and events?Kevin: So let me, let me update you on what we did in the 2019 fall conference in Chicago and coalition sponsored seven education sessions. We had also had five member round tables during that conference. In terms of, in between conferences. At the end of this week we have our 2020 small firm coalition winter meeting, taking place in Dallas focusing on leadership at all levels. We expect that to be a very successful event and later this month we'll have our 2020 coalition winter member meeting that's going to be held February 27th and 28th in New Orleans. And it really will be exploring the future of design software technologies. And a lot of our coalitions are also doing ExCom meetings. At that meeting. So it should be a very successful event right after Mardi Gras.Host: Ah, that's, that's a perfect time to be down there right after the party stops. When you can actually move around and registration, I understand us is now open for that winter meetings, is that correct?Kevin: It is. And, and they can find the registration link on, on the ACEC website.Host: Fantastic. Publications are another area that we really focus in on. It's, it kinda builds off of the education piece. Have there been any updates on publications in the coalitions?Matt: Yeah, there has. And you know, you hit the nail on the head when you talk about one of the distinct advantages to being a member of the coalitions and with all the coalitions being in one group a membership to any one of the coalitions allows you access to all of these documents. And if anyone from ACEC were to purchase them and were not a member of the coalitions, it would cost thousands of dollars. And the, the documents are constantly being updated since July 1st we have a seven new or seven documents, four that have been updated and three new ones. The new ones are come from our CASE and new Geoprofessionals Coalition on lessons learned as well as commentary of the ASCE design procedures and health and safety plan checklist. So this is a process that's always going. We usually have between five and 10 updated or new per year and we're continuing moving in that direction. We also have in November-December Engineering, Inc., we featured our coalition leaders talking about prospects in resiliency, changes in leadership and climate change. So we're, we're out there our leaders are out there and talking about industry trends.Host: Yeah, that's a really good point Matt, because like you said, if you went off and you tried to source these publications on your own and you tried to buy them or, or just find them somewhere it would get expensive really quickly. And being a member of the coalitions gives you that amazing library of content that if you are a sole practitioner or a small firm and you're trying to get your leadership educated and you're trying to figure out, you know, different business strategies or contracts, you know, the coalitions just gives you a treasure trove of material that you can just get access to, which is just so beneficial.Matt: Yeah. And Jeff, I mean, most of our most of our publications that come from the coalitions may be practice oriented. So you know, if they're for structural engineers or for the mechanical electrical group but a good chunk of them, I would say probably close to a quarter of them are business centered. So if you are, like you said, a small firm and you're looking for that HR document or you're looking for a basic on how to basic contracts and setting up a new office or some employee handbook issues, chances are somebody has already spent the time and capital in putting something that you might be able to at least make as a starting point as opposed to trying to reinvent the wheel. And it's, it's an invaluable resource for coalitions we find.Host: And then I guess the last part is operations and how everything's being structured. Have there been any operational changes within the the coalition structure to note?Kevin: One thing to note is when we started out coalitions years ago, some of those were councils to begin with. And we decided late last year that we wanted to have our, a consistent branding across our coalition. So the ones that had council in their name, we've, we've officially now renamed them to coalitions. So coalitions will appear everywhere in our branding and counsel is now being put to put the rest. We also last year recognized Mike Snyder from Dewberry as a recipient of our sixth annual Coalition Distinguished Service Award. That's something that we give out every year at the fall conference.Host: All right. So that was kind of the top list of materials and things going on with coalitions. Is there anything else going on you guys want to add? A kind of free fire zone here about coalitions or, or anything you want to get across to our audience? Being our, our the leaders of our ACEC coalitions?Kevin: This is Kevin and I, I would just recommend that anyone who's a member of ACC and especially new members who join, if they have any questions related to coalitions that they please reach out and they can find our contact information on the website. They can also contact Heather at ACEC headquarters. We're more than willing to share some of our personal experience in dealing with coalitions and how it's benefited our own organizations.Host: Wonderful. Well, I want to thank you both for taking some time out of your day. And thanks again for giving us an update on ACEC Coalitions. It's all good news across the board and we're looking at growth and expanding our footprint of our coalitions in 2020. And thank you for being on the show and look forward to having you on again soon.

Have you ever wondered why resolutions people make, in order to improve their lives, often fizzles into nothingness? The main reason boils down to the type of motivation for achieving the specific goal in mind. WTR welcomes guest Susan Fowler, a researcher, author, and co-founder of Out of the Box Learning, to our discussion. In today’s podcast episode, we will discuss why it matters to break a bad habits and instill new daily practices that will help you hone your ability of being optimally motivated. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. Susan Fowler Website: https://susanfowler.com/ (https://susanfowler.com/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-fowler-955a174 (https://www.linkedin.com/in/susan-fowler-955a174) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SusanNFowler (https://www.facebook.com/SusanNFowler) Twitter: https://twitter.com/fowlersusann (https://twitter.com/fowlersusann) NOTES: [00:53] Kevin: Susan Fowler is a researcher, author, and co-founder of Out of the Box Learning. Today, we're talking about Optimally Money Motivated or Not [01:07] If you wouldn't mind could you share with us today a little bit about where you came from and what inspired you to get to where you are today? [01:30] Susan: I have a motto and that is I teach what I most need to learn. My quest is understanding the motivation behind what we do and what we don't do [03:35] People say that I'm a motivational speaker, but I have to correct them because I'm not a motivational speaker, I'm a researcher and a writer and a speaker who talks on the subject of motivation for science and how to use it [04:45] Kevin: So let's talk about the scientific meaning of this because you're saying that some motivational speakers have a model but it's just something they came up with due to their experience, not necessarily scientific (it might be factual but not scientific). So what are we talking about scientifically? [05:01] Susan: When I say scientific what I mean is empirically proven. So an example would be Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [06:00] People latch on to theories or concepts without doing investigative work to say is there anything in this that's actually real/provable? [06:12] Kevin: In today's talk about Optimally Money Motivated or Not, is there a scientific way of looking at this? [06:18] Susan: Absolutely. If people texted 66866 with the word ARTICLES, I would be glad to send them these academic articles on money and motivation [06:45] The question I would ask is does money motivate people? And it's true. But there's two things we need to think about[06:53] Are there alternatives to being motivated by money that are more productive, that are healthier, that enable you to be more creative and innovative?[07:02] The answer to this is yes [07:04] If we can rather than being money motivated we shift our motivation away from the money and toward something else, then the money becomes the byproduct (it's what we end up with but not what we were seeking) [07:36] It's not just being motivated by something other than money, but you have to understand the reason that you're motivated by money if that's your motivation (the reason is what matters)[07:49] Where you can scientifically map it out [07:54] Kevin: I've noticed during the course of my life people have tried to quit smoking or get into better shape (things that are important that they know they should be doing)[08:15] Same thing is true for saving money for retirement. They try and they know they should do it and want to do it and they're so focused on that goal that they don't know the reason[08:40] When people understand the deeper meaning behind it, there's no longer the will power (having to 'will' yourself to do it), a switch goes off and they just do it and it's the easiest thing in the world [09:11] Susan: I write in my book about a friend named Raymon and he'd...

Most kids who grew up spending too much time at the video arcade wound up with fewer quarters and a few earfuls from their parents. That's not the case for Kevin Williams, who turned his arcade addiction into a career as an out-of-home entertainment guru. He drops in to talk about how XR is taking old ideas and breathing new life into them. Alan: Hey, you’re listening to the XR for Business Podcast with your host, Alan Smithson. In this episode coming up is Kevin Williams. He is the out-of-home location-based entertainment expert, and he’s what’s coming up next. We’re going to talk about Disney vision, the 90s, immersive entertainment, dream craft, driving go-karts in augmented reality, Great Wolf Lodge and magical wands. All that and much more coming up on the XR for Business Podcast. Founder of the DNA conference and publisher of the ever-mindblowing Stinger Report and my guest today, Kevin Williams. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Kevin: Thank you, Alan, a real pleasure to be here. The check’s in the post. Alan: It’s my absolute pleasure. You don’t know this, but you’re one of my very first mentors in this entire industry. You were the first person I reached out to and you were so gracious with helping me understand this world of VR and AR before anybody really caught on to this. That was back in 2014, and I’ll never forget it. So thank you for being there for me. Kevin: Oh, thank you for remembering. Our industry only grows by the new people that you can introduce to it. Alan: And with that, I want to make a challenge to everybody in the industry who owns some sort of VR or AR device — and I am included in this. It’s easy for us to not remember the journey and excitement of our first few times of trying these technologies. I implore everybody and make a challenge to everybody that owns a device — or many devices, in our case — in the next seven days, to put it on as many heads as possible; to get those reactions, to re-energize yourself to the fact that wow, this technology is revolutionary, it is mind-blowing. And we have it sitting in our backpacks, sitting on our desks, sitting in our labs. Let’s show everybody. Kevin: Well, that’s part of the reason why I’m so passionate about augmented reality and virtual reality being used in out-of-home entertainment. We can get a lot more heads in it, rather than it just sitting on a shelf in the development studio. Alan: I couldn’t agree more. I had the opportunity to meet with Dream Craft Attractions on the weekend, and oh my goodness, they’ve even solved the problem of hygiene! How do you put people in those masks without having to sterilize all of the devices? So they came up with this ingenious plastic helmet. Like, so smart. And then the VR headsets lower down. Kevin: It’s interesting; you talk about how long this industry has been going. I was just having a conversation. You do understand that that two-part liner system is actually based on the original idea that Walt Disney’s Imagineerium had for their Disney-bution system. Alan: “Disney-bution system!” Kevin: So, Disneyvision was the system that was its Epcot in the 90s. That’s where a lot of people first heard about virtual reality in the theme park sector. And because Disney at the time was trying to work out which was the best way to get people into virtual reality — and this technology is clunky, was using CRTs — they came up with a two-part system where there was a liner that you put on first, and then the head-mounted display component clipped into that liner when you go to

Most kids who grew up spending too much time at the video arcade wound up with fewer quarters and a few earfuls from their parents. That’s not the case for Kevin Williams, who turned his arcade addiction into a career as an out-of-home entertainment guru. He drops in to talk about how XR is taking old ideas and breathing new life into them. Alan: Hey, you’re listening to the XR for Business Podcast with your host, Alan Smithson. In this episode coming up is Kevin Williams. He is the out-of-home location-based entertainment expert, and he’s what’s coming up next. We’re going to talk about Disney vision, the 90s, immersive entertainment, dream craft, driving go-karts in augmented reality, Great Wolf Lodge and magical wands. All that and much more coming up on the XR for Business Podcast. Founder of the DNA conference and publisher of the ever-mindblowing Stinger Report and my guest today, Kevin Williams. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Kevin: Thank you, Alan, a real pleasure to be here. The check’s in the post. Alan: It’s my absolute pleasure. You don’t know this, but you’re one of my very first mentors in this entire industry. You were the first person I reached out to and you were so gracious with helping me understand this world of VR and AR before anybody really caught on to this. That was back in 2014, and I’ll never forget it. So thank you for being there for me. Kevin: Oh, thank you for remembering. Our industry only grows by the new people that you can introduce to it. Alan: And with that, I want to make a challenge to everybody in the industry who owns some sort of VR or AR device — and I am included in this. It’s easy for us to not remember the journey and excitement of our first few times of trying these technologies. I implore everybody and make a challenge to everybody that owns a device — or many devices, in our case — in the next seven days, to put it on as many heads as possible; to get those reactions, to re-energize yourself to the fact that wow, this technology is revolutionary, it is mind-blowing. And we have it sitting in our backpacks, sitting on our desks, sitting in our labs. Let’s show everybody. Kevin: Well, that’s part of the reason why I’m so passionate about augmented reality and virtual reality being used in out-of-home entertainment. We can get a lot more heads in it, rather than it just sitting on a shelf in the development studio. Alan: I couldn’t agree more. I had the opportunity to meet with Dream Craft Attractions on the weekend, and oh my goodness, they’ve even solved the problem of hygiene! How do you put people in those masks without having to sterilize all of the devices? So they came up with this ingenious plastic helmet. Like, so smart. And then the VR headsets lower down. Kevin: It’s interesting; you talk about how long this industry has been going. I was just having a conversation. You do understand that that two-part liner system is actually based on the original idea that Walt Disney’s Imagineerium had for their Disney-bution system. Alan: “Disney-bution system!” Kevin: So, Disneyvision was the system that was its Epcot in the 90s. That’s where a lot of people first heard about virtual reality in the theme park sector. And because Disney at the time was trying to work out which was the best way to get people into virtual reality — and this technology is clunky, was using CRTs — they came up with a two-part system where there was a liner that you put on first, and then the head-mounted display component clipped into that liner when you go to

Making authentic relationships is extremely important when meeting new people in all aspects of our lives. How do you make these connections to start expanding your network? Well, it’s as simple as doing something that you enjoy doing. Today, WTR welcomes Scott Holmen, founder and CEO of Agency73 (https://www.agency73.com/) and long-time successful entrepreneur. In today’s episode, we discuss how if you put a strong investment into relationships, it could be the key to growing your business. WTR Discussion With Scott Holmen, Importance Of Relationships Scott Holmen Website: http://scottholmen.com (http://scottholmen.com/)   Website 2: https://www.agency73.com/ (https://www.agency73.com/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-holmen-63aa6410/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-holmen-63aa6410/)   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/scottholmen (https://www.facebook.com/scottholmen)   Twitter: https://twitter.com/Agency73 (https://twitter.com/Agency73)   NOTES [00:27] Kevin: Today, we’re joined by guest Scott Holmen. He is the founder and CEO of Agency73 and long-time successful entrepreneur. One of the things that we've both found in business is that overtime, business can benefit from the relationships that we have [01:11] People and business revolve around relationships [01:19] Would you mind sharing a little bit about where you came from and what inspired you to get to where you are today? [01:33] Scott: I've started a lot of businesses that have been across a lot of different industries. I didn't go on the traditional path and become an expert in any one thing, I just got addicted to learning and trying things and starting businesses [02:09] I've gone into it not knowing much about that industry and I just loved learning and meeting people and trying new things (has worked out) [03:58] Kevin: I've always had a saying that goes when you realize how much you don't know about a subject, that's when you're an expert [04:10] Scott: The more I learn the more I realize how much there is to learn which makes it super enjoyable [04:26] Kevin: Why do you think it's so important to focus on relationships in business? [04:33] Scott: For me, it's fun. All of my clients have become friends, a lot of my clients were friends first [04:57] It's a very natural thing when you put yourself out there, at least for me [05:30] I'm always making introductions, which end up coming back to me which has grown our business without the need for marketing [06:22] Kevin: It doesn't feel good when you don't have a connection to people (ex: cold calling) [06:47] Scott: Cold calling makes you appreciate the authentic relationships that drive business (get to see the contrast) [07:43] Kevin: So you build your business primarily with relationships. Can you talk a little bit more about how it's built up your business? [07:58] Scott: On the client side [08:17] After years of meeting new people, you start building up a great network of clients [08:22] Because these people know and trust me, I do great work [08:48] Politely asking if they can bring other people into your world [08:53] On the team side [09:12] We haven't had to really post job descriptions (network) [09:30] You really have to get out there to make a good use of your time (can be doing fun things to network too) [10:17] Kevin: Do you have any suggestions for our WTR listeners about how they can go about meeting new people? [10:25] Scott: I would say go do something you love (ex: surfing, golf, etc.) [10:32] Find a group of people who are doing something that you really enjoy doing [10:44] When you build relationships with people with a common interest at the core, there's more depth there already in the relationship [11:15] It's not just number of hours you spend with them, it's about getting to know them and the people who are...

In today’s episode, we have the pleasure of featuring a well known & respected mobile home park guru, Kevin Bupp. He entered the real estate world at the young age of 19 where he started with single-family residential real estate. As time went on, he learned about commercial real estate and grew his portfolio- right before the crash of 2008. Like everything, you live and learn- and that’s what Kevin did. He did some soul searching and wanted to focus on his hobbies of health and fitness. He took some time off of real estate and built a company around custom cycling clothes and ran a social club 'Running For Brews.’ However, Kevin still had that real estate fire in him and his vision changed after a lunch meeting. Kevin became intrigued in mobile home parks and he owns several of them throughout the US. In today’s episode, he discusses how and why he chose mobile home parks in this second round of his career, the factors of a good deal & how to find them, and the importance of being in a good headspace.  Episode Highlights: How Things Affected His Business In The Early 2000s 2012 Tragedy And Onwards The World of Mobile Home Parks Where To Learn About Investing In Mobile Home Parks   Connect with Kevin Website: Kevinbupp.com Company Website: sunrisecapitalinvestors.com Podcast: Real Estate Investing for Cash Flow  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  TRANSCRIPTION  Intro: Hey guys, today I'm very excited to discuss one of the most intriguing asset classes and one that is known to have caught my attention at least. And of course, I'm talking about mobile home parks. Mobile home parks are one of my primary targets as an investor because I truly believe that to create long term wealth, there is nothing better than buying a piece of land. And if that land also happens to be a cash cow, then I'm all in. I think mobile home parks are just that. So, in today's episode, I'm going to host Kevin Bupp who has a truly remarkable story and is considered a guru when it comes to mobile home parks. So, let's get going. Lady: Welcome to the commercial real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden where we cover all aspects of real estate investing with special attention to off-market strategies. Don: Alright, hey, Kevin. Welcome to the show. Kevin: Hey, Don, thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. Don: Of course I was looking forward to it as well because I know you're one of the best mobile home park investors out there. So, I'm very happy to have you on the show because it's not a secret that I'm very interested in mobile home parks. But first, I'm going to ask you a little bit about your career and how you got started so my audience could get to know you a little bit better. Kevin: Sure. Mobile home parks have been our focus for the past seven years. However, it's not really where I got started. Like a lot of folks, I got started in single-family residential real estate. It was introduced to me or I was introduced to it back when I was 19 years old. Ultimately took me about a year and a half to buy my first property and spent the next couple of years following that introduction to residential focusing on building a single-family rental portfolio. And that's the direction of my mentor at that time. That's exactly what his business model was. So, I just followed it to a tee. We would only ever wholesale or flip a home when we needed to build up capital reserves. But the long term intent was to always build a portfolio for long term cash flow. At some point during the first couple of years, I was introduced to the world of commercial real estate more specifically multifamily property and so we started diving into the multifamily space as well. This is back pre-2008. This is back in 2002-2007, leading up to '08. So, we had built quite a large portfolio of single-family properties and instead of acquiring apartment complexes as well, along with other miscellaneous commercial real estate. Don: Sounds risky build up a big portfolio just before 2008. So, did it end well? Kevin: Well, if I had a crystal ball, I surely would have planned slightly differently, right? No, it didn't end well at all. We're down in Southwest Florida pretty much ground zero, one of the ground zeroes for the real estate crash and crisis. It was a very challenging time. The single-family market down here suffered greatly, not just from a value perspective, all of our properties have a lot of equity. We had a very low leverage point we thought was a very conservative leverage point in our single-family properties. But what we found is within a year period of time slightly less, most, if not all of them were upside down in value. Don: It's like the worst nightmare for every investor. What happened to you? You were investing in single families in Florida before 2008. That's the worst-case scenario. Kevin: Yeah, and it wasn't just the values it was a rental, the occupancy got affected, a lot of people are leaving Florida back then there weren't jobs, a lot of the jobs, were heavily relying on real estate, the growth of real estate, you know, building and development practices. So we had to hit to our rental premiums that were charged, and we had to start offering concessions, and your rents don't always continually go up, there are certain points in times where rents can be affected, and you might have a little more of a challenging time occupying your units will take longer than usual, you might have to give some concessions away, couple free months of rent or a discounted rent for the first couple of months. So, we had to do that, we had to do all the above.  It just was very, very hard to maintain the status quo when we had a portfolio that was underwater. In addition to that, it was negative cash flow, and it went from positive to a negative cash flow standpoint, you can't sustain that for very long least we couldn't. I didn't have $20 million sitting in the bank that could just keep feeding this beast and so we hung on for as long as we could. But ultimately, we were forced to essentially give back a lot of our portfolio to the banks. At that point, the banks didn't have the loss mitigation departments. This was very fresh. Most banks were forced to create those departments within their company to do workouts and loan modifications. However, that did not exist. The first year when things started going completely haywire, and so none of the banks were willing to work with us whatsoever. That's the last thing they wanted to discuss was that loan workout. We really did what we had to do and we tried to hold on as long as we could and ultimately had to get back a lot of what we had built over the years. Don: Okay, so when you say give back, I assume it was a deed in lieu? Foreclosure, right? Kevin: We had hundreds of properties. So, deed in lieu, some of the banks were so in disorganization at that point that they just didn't, there was a way we could speak with just ultimately went through the judicial process and went through foreclosure. We would short sell whatever we could just that we tried to work with the banks as much as possible. We were here, we were open, we're open-minded and willing to work with them. And so, some of the banks worked with us through short sales, we did that.  Others again, there was no communication, there was no dialogue and so, those ultimately went through the judicial foreclosure process somewhere deed in lieu or willing to do whatever we could to ease the process on both sides. But again, there wasn't much organization with a lot of banks in the first couple of years of the crash. Now every bank has a loss mitigation department. There are people, there's a dedicated department to deal with loan modifications and doing reworks with borrowers. That didn't exist. It just didn't exist back then. Don: Of course. Going a little bit forward, then it's 2012. I know you made your first mobile home park deal, right? Kevin: That's correct. Yeah, took a couple of years off a real estate. Well, I shouldn't have I kind of kicked myself in the butt now. But it was damage control for a number of years. It was very hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And it's not a sob story. I've learned a lot from it. I lost my personal residence and got bank accounts got garnished. It was a very ugly personal time for me. I'm still young at heart today but I mean, I was in my 20s. And I'd never gone through something like this before. I've only ever experienced the positives of real estate. It was a lot to consume and to digest. I knew that I needed to focus on my health and fitness. And so, I started a few other businesses that were directly related to the health and fitness industry and that allowed me to number one, create some revenue and income for myself because I was broke. I mean, I'd have anything and my bank account got garnished.  Don: What kind of business? Kevin: I started two different companies. One was a custom clothing company. I was a big runner, and I'm a cyclist, triathlete. And so, I was already ingrained in that community. And there was a huge need for custom cycling clothes and also running clothes for big events that we got into the sublimation business. I knew nothing about it before just watch some YouTube videos and did a bunch of my research and ultimately built a printing company. In addition to that, I love craft beer, and I love running as well. I thought there might be a great marriage. This is back again in like 2009 craft beer was kicking off. It wasn't as big as what it is today, but it was on a roll.  So, I started a social running club that was called 'Running For Brews', and once a week and a set location, we meet for a social run. And afterward we have been at a local brewery and we ultimately ended up opening up 45 locations throughout the country. The bars we charge them for basically bringing people every week to the bar so we get paid based on the amount of attendance we had. It was a fun business. It was one allowed me to be in direct alignment with my interest and also stay healthy and fit as well. Because again, every week we were meeting and going for social runs, 5K's, 10 K's, what have you. And so, it didn't kill the world. We weren't making millions of dollars with it but it was a fun revenue-generating business for us. And then the printing company as well. So those two things allowed me to really tie together my hobbies, health, and fitness and also generate income while I was trying to work through the mess that I had been experiencing with the real estate downturn. Don: Nice. Yeah, I think it's very important to do things you love. I've had some rough times as well. And then I found out that my hobbies are the ones that really saved me and got me back to become a lucid person again. I like to skate, you would never know if you see me dressed up work, you'd never know. But if I need to clear my mind, I just go out and skate and do something. I'm sure you've done that and that helped you a lot with mood and willpower, right? Kevin: That's the one thing that I realized is that everything else was out of my control. My credit was shot, I was getting calls every day from creditors. There were a lot of things that were outside of my control. The one thing I could control was how I felt and how I dealt with these challenging times these days and months that were lying ahead. Being in peak shape, both mentally and physically surely helped me get through those times. I mean, if I had just sat around and ate a bunch of cupcakes and drank a bunch of beer and got overweight and lazy, I'm sure my mental fitness surely would not be in tip-top shape. Don: Let's talk about 2012, where you got back to real estate after the trauma that you've been through with establishing a very serious portfolio and then losing most of it in the crisis. Then you got back to real estate, which is I believe, you know, once you do real estate and you're successful, it doesn't matter what happened, you going to get back to it, right? Kevin: Yeah, that fire was inside me. I tried to pull out or once in a while during those tough years, and I wish I would have looked at it differently. I think if it ever happened again, I would have a different perspective. And everyone knows the old saying of ‘buy when there's blood in the street’, it's just really hard to put that theory to work when its blood that's out in the street, right? It's really hard to think about it when you're inside that bubble. But I think looking back I did the best I could. And I had that fire burning, things were looking better. I was in a better situation all around. I've gotten married to the love of my life, still married to her today, she dealt with me through those downtimes. We got married in 2010. So, she was with me during some really hard times. Life was looking great, didn't have good credit yet. Still, we're working through some financial challenges, everything else was just lining up perfectly.  I knew I would get back into real estate, I knew I wanted to get that fire just glowing again. I look back and reflect on what I would have done differently or what mistakes I might have made back during my earlier years prior to the crash. What would the second round look like? Was it going to look the same or am I going to change my business model a little bit? What I realized is that I put a lot of time and energy into buying 120 plus single-family properties for the rental portfolio. I wasn't married, enjoyed what I did, but I put a lot of long hours and which is fine. I mean, you got to work your butt off.  However, I knew there was a more efficient way kind of reflected back and I compared to my apartment complexes that we owned to the single-family properties and realize that we didn't put nearly as much effort into acquiring 500 doors, apartment doors as we did acquiring 120 single-family rentals and those apartments to seem to kind of chug along, whereas the rentals were scattered amongst three different counties. They were inefficient to operate. I just knew that moving forward, I didn't want to have to rebuild a single-family home portfolio. It wasn't a good fit. It wouldn't allow me to scale fast. I wanted to regrow things or rebuild things much faster than I had done it before. I knew that multifamily is a way to do that. I understood residential real estate.  I knew that apartments were going to be a good fit for me and during that kind of journey of learning how the landscape has changed even the apartment space, I got introduced to a guy by the name of Randy. Randy owns mobile home parks here in Florida. He owned three of them had been a banker for his entire life, did a lot of lending on mobile home parks here in Florida and ultimately retired from the bank and went out and bought three fairly large mobile home communities and had lunch with Randy were introduced by a mutual friend. I had lunch with Randy one day just not interested in mobile home parks, but just really to meet someone new and I left that two-hour lunch meeting with Randy with a newfound interest in the mobile home park.  He piqued my interest in many different ways that I had never even thought about as it relates to investing in parks and I left that meeting confirming that I was going to give the next 12 months of my life to learning everything I could about mobile home parks, not just learning it, but going on actually putting the use of buying a park. So, I was going to buy a park and either prove or disprove all the great things that Randy had said about the niche. So that's what I did. I went out and did that. So, this was like 2011 when I met Randy, and so in late 2012, bought our first Park up in Atlanta, Georgia still owns it today.  The smaller community, it's the smallest thing that we own. However, we bought it at the right price, it's a great location. And the thing kicks out money every month without fail, bought that one, really enjoyed how it went. Bought the second one, which up in North Carolina bought a third one bought the fourth one and the story evolves forward seven years later, got communities and 11 different states right now and this has been our core business for the last seven years. So really, it has been very lucrative for us, it has been a lot of fun. It's a phenomenal niche. You've come into it, Don. I know you're looking to buy your first park so there's been a lot of things that have piqued your interest in this niche. Same things that probably peaked mine seven years ago. And we just took it and ran with it. So that's where we're at today. Don: I could tell you what I'm thinking about mobile home parks and where I'm coming from, I'm coming from owning a single-family portfolio as well. I'm also developing 30 units here in Hollywood, Florida. I'm developing the entire thing from the ground, it's going to be in A-class building, it’s going to be great, close to the beach. So, it's a great area. But somebody had a discussion with me, which also piqued my interest in mobile home parks for a few reasons. I can tell you what I'm thinking, and I want to know what you're thinking about this because I know you're the expert of them. So, here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that there are a few reasons why I'm interested in them. The first one is because they're not zoning for them anymore. So, it's just a fundamental of supply and demand. That's like the most basic thing in the universe. Supply, demand. If you have something that has more demand than supply, then you should try to get that thing for a good deal. So, they don't zone for them because they don't make as well as an income for the cities, as much as the multifamily would as far as property taxes from what I understand, maybe there are other reasons. So that's one reason.  The second reason is that it's just not getting any cheaper and it's not getting any easier to find affordable housing in America. Some so many people have section eight vouchers but can't find homes and the population is growing. So, I don't see any stop to that, I just see how you know, we keep growing as far as that number and the gap between the rich and poor, that's not going anywhere as well. So, when rents are going to get compressed, how compressed are they going to get so that mobile home parks are going to go down in the price? That's the reason. The last reason is that its land. So, it's God's money. When bitcoins replace dollars and when the currency changes in the next 10 years or 20 years, the land is always going to be worth a lot of money. I think buying a mobile home park, close to downtown is a long term investment. It's the best investment you could make, because in cash flows and it's going to appreciate in a tremendous way. If somebody who owns a car dealership is going to want to buy our lot because there is no other land to buy it and they could pay you $15 million in 20 years in today's money. That's what I'm thinking. Am I right? Kevin: I think you hit all relevant points. And it's a great covered land play. We're not a speculative buyer. So, we don't buy our mobile home parks with the intent that there's going to be a higher and better use in 10 or 15, 20 years, we buy it for the income that's being generated as a mobile home community. However, we look at the higher and better use as icing on the cake. If you're within the path of progress or anywhere in its path, even if it takes 15, 20, 30 years to get to you, that land at some point in time should have a higher value than what it does today.  Having a mobile home or mobile homes on that site paying you lot rent. People need a roof over their heads. It's a great way to cover the cost of owning that land and generate some income until that higher and better use comes along. So now, I wholeheartedly agree. I mean, it's a parking lot. It's kind of the same idea behind investing a parking lots like you see parking lots is urban core districts, downtown business districts. What a great covered land play. You've got basically a demand for parking, you got a prime piece of real estate at some point in time or another, those surface parking lots are going to have a much higher better using that could be high rise office building apartment complex, what have you, and I feel mobile home parks are very similar nature. Don: Okay, so let's talk about your criteria and your experience. So, what have you learned about investing in mobile home parks? What is it that you're looking for? Like when you see a deal, how do you know it's a good deal? Kevin: A good deal has a different definition for everybody. A lot of it depends on Is it a long term strategy, is it a short term strategy. For us, we like to look at things as though we're going to own them for 7 to 10 years if not longer than that, ideally longer than that, right? We have bought and sold things in the past. However, going into them, we pretty much decided that, that is that type of deal. Like we're going to get in here turn around, and we're not going to keep it for whatever reason that is we're going to look to flip it here in the next year or two. But as far as long term strategy, we know number one, speaking about the demographics, we want to be an area that is economically sound, that doesn't have a diminishing population to it, we want to be an area that has a strong median home price, strong median rental price as well, so that we know there's a demand for affordable housing.  You know, we wouldn't have been an area that's got a diverse employment base as well. We want to know there are jobs available for our workers. Generally speaking, that's the demographics that we're seeking. As far as the deal itself, there are certain targets we have investors that we have to meet the demands of and so for us, we look at what kind of cash on cash return in this park generate, not just from day one, but look at year one, year three, year five, you know, what does the long term projection look like in this community? Where can we get it to go, where's the value add components and what's realistic of what we truly achieve in that given time, and our target then between year one and year two, is to be somewhere in the 12% to 13% cash on cash range, so that number is kind of changed over time.  I could tell you that things have gotten a lot tighter, cap rates are going to press quite a great deal in our space, and the types of deals we were buying four years ago, you're not seeing as much of anymore back then we could easily be getting 15%, 16%, 17% cash on cash returns, sometimes upwards of 20% cash on cash returns quite often. It's getting a lot tighter lot harder to find those types of opportunities today, however, we still like to hit those lower double-digit cash on cash returns between year one and year two, and sometimes sooner, sometimes it might take a little longer. But that's really what the target is that we're reaching for. And that's a leveraged return, that's assuming that we're going to put some type of debt in place. The normal debt that we underwrite with is 70% loan to value 20-year amortization. Unless we know that it absolutely from day one will go either with CMBS or a Fannie or Freddie loan. In that case, typically, it's going to be in the 75% loan to value range in a 30-year amortization. Right now the rates are somewhere in the low foursome are actually below four, depending on what rate of an asset it is. So I'm not sure if that answers your question, Don, but what we're kind of looking for it doesn't mean that folks are out there hunting if it doesn't meet the criteria I just gave you, it's not a good deal because that just means it's a good deal for us and that actually fits our buying criteria.  As far as like quality of assets, I say the one big thing that's changed for us over the last couple of years, not that we would ever buy low-quality assets, however, we're much more picky with the great asset that will buy today than what it might have been maybe five years ago. It's one of those things from a bandwidth perspective, you're always you're buying or dogs wanting to start parks. it's manageable when you're small when you've got a few communities, but just know that those dogs, if they're in a primary that might be different because you can always change the tenant base if you've got just a phenomenal location area. But if you're an okay area, but you got a low demographic that you're serving in your park, it might not ever be more than what it is there today, you know, and so you might just have a little bit more of a challenging demographic that you're serving. And it gets to a certain point where that's just not scalable. At least that's what we found when you're putting out a million fires left and right because you got an older park, it's kind of got a rougher tenant base that is just very demanding.  You're always fighting them to get your payments on time. It's got a really old infrastructure that you're always repairing. Your bandwidth gets stretched very thin very quickly if you tried to own 10, 20, 30 of those parks, and so we're very particular nowadays with not just the quality the park itself above the ground, but also below the ground. What does that infrastructure look like, be very particular about what's the useful life that's there is there 10 years left in the water and sewer lines? Are there five years or 20 years? When was the park built? How about the roads themselves? What condition they're in? And how are they going to hold up over time? So we really put a lot emphasis on that, because we want to know that, number one, the tenant base that we're serving isn't going to be overwhelming for us that they're going to be just a good solid tenant base, but also the park itself, the infrastructure that we're not going to get surprised 10 years down the road with some major infrastructure improvements that we hadn't planned for. Lots of parks out there were built 60-70 years ago. Pipes don't last forever, sewer systems don't last forever, wastewater treatment plants don't last forever, and they're incredibly expensive to replace. Anyway, that's just some of the things that we look for out there searching. Don: I want to ask you a few questions about that. Because from the way you say it, it looks like you guys are looking to buy parks that are already established, occupied, are in good shape, but how could you get like that? Kevin: Yeah, give you an example. We got a parking contract right now, this is probably a perfect example for us. There's a park down in Texas, we're not closed yet, we're in contract for some I'm not going to mention the actual city and state or I'm not going to mention the city but it's in Texas. It's 204 lots and total. Still, this is a good example to use. So, this park, it's got 151 mobile home pads and then the remainder is RV pads, which is kind of a hybrid so it's not 100% mobile home. However, the RV-ers are long term. There are some folks that live there for like three, four years, it's very much a permanent type establishment. The mobile home lots of 149 of 151 are occupied and 26 of the RV lots of the 51 are occupied.  From a revenue perspective, the park is fairly stable, the lot rents are at 375 they could easily go to probably 450 so it's got some move to run on the rents already. It's got city water and sewer it's already being built back so there's not a lot of recapture or revenue to be had thereby building back the water and sewer. They do have some recapture issues but not big ones, you know, things that are fairly easy for us to go in and fix probably a couple of water leaks and a few people that aren't paying their bills as they should be. But generally speaking, that upside has been kind of removed as well. However, where the upside in this park lies, is it looks like crap. The infrastructure is good. The water and sewer are good. It was built to the right specs. It's laid out well, however, the family that's owned it for the past 40 plus years, they just haven't enforced any rules at all. These are all 10 own homes.  There are no park own homes here. I'd say maybe only a handful of homes have actual skirting and so the park looks loud. Hell, it looks horrible. The roads aren't in great shape against got good infrastructure there it was planned out well as far as layouts are concerned. All the lots are a big enough size to where they can fit. newer model single-wide some double-wide. It's got paved two car parking in each home. However, there are cars all over the place. It's more of a cosmetic type deal for us to go and improve other than raising the rents themselves. So, our intent with that one we're buying it for $5.65 million. More than likely what the first 12-18 months will look like there is trying to fix the minor water recapture issues that are going on.  There's about $65,000 of water and sewer that's going somewhere and it's not getting recaptured. I don't know if it's a big water leak or what but we're going to fix that. Normally, it's pretty easy to kind of narrow down what the issue is there either if people aren't paying it, or there's a water leak in the water is going into the ground, one of those two things. We're going to do that we're going to go in and skirt every single home. It's going to cost us $150,000 to do it, but it's going to make that park look like a completely different part just by doing that every home will have a new skirting unit the home itself looks kind of like crap. It will look a million times better with skirting around it. We're going to do a massive community cleanup. There's lots of untagged vehicles, lots of crap around the houses, we're probably going to spend upwards of $50,000 just by buying renting 30, 40 yard dumpsters to get in there, get some labor in there to help people clean your mess up that they've created over the past 10, 15, 20 years.  We're going to fix the roads by about $150,000 worth of road repair that is needed in that park and then the RV lots there's 25 that are empty right now all the hookups are there. I did some test ads to see what the demand was for a one-bedroom, one-bath park model home they'll park miles like one of the small little 99 square foot homes. Within 24 hours we had like 55 inquiries on Facebook so there's a great demand for that type of product in that marketplace. So, we're going to go by 26 park model homes and fill in those remainder of RV pads or if any of the other RV lots turn in the meantime we'll bring in a park model home. That way it looks more like a mobile home park then it does a mobile home park with an RV section with like fifth wheels and travel campers and things like that. So, we'll do that over this period of the first 12-18 months. We'll get rents up. I don't know if we're going to push them to $450 relegate but we'll get them over $400.  Now here's the best part about this. It's in the best part of town it's a right down the road from a Country Club. It's right behind. It's probably one of the nice neighborhoods in the area. All the major retailers are within a block away so if you got a good arm you can throw a stone that far. It's very close by so it's in the best part of town however it looks like death. But the revenues coming in such a desirable area and the schools are so good right there that the park is full the vans full however it looks horrible, and so it had been on the market for a while for a much higher price and it just hadn't sold because it looks scares people away. However, I can see the underlying beauty because I know that the location in the market changes everything. I can easily take what's there now because I know there's enough people that are banging at the door to get in saying, ''Hey, I would love to live here and raise my family here because it's such a great part of town and great schools," that if I lose some of the bad people that are there, I know I'll fill those places right back in with good people.  However, this park was in like the other side of town, it wouldn't be a good deal to me at all, I would never be able to make it look better than what it does today. Even if I put money into it, it would revert to its old self very quickly, and it would never be a strong operator. Collections are phenomenal revenues high, we can get the rents to $450 within the first two years will bail turn around and sell this market we choose to pry for slightly over $10 million is what the evaluation will come in at. If we fill in the park models, get the lot rents up to $450, fix the water recapture problem and aesthetically improve the park which will help drive down that cap rate on the sales side that it becomes all day every day at $10 million parks. Don: So okay, so let's talk about the numbers. So right now you're buying it based on the income I assume, right? Kevin: Yeah, it's about a seven cap. Now we're buying it out. Don: It's a seven cap. What would you say right now is the renovations that it requires as far as the dollar amount. Kevin: About a half-million dollars. Don: Half a million. So, you're buying it for 5.56? Right? Kevin: We're buying a 5.65. And then we got about a half million. Yeah. Don: Okay. You got to be a little bit over 6 million, right? Kevin: Correct. Don: Okay, so how are you going to bring the park into a valuation of 10 million? Is that because you're going to sell it on a lower cap rate? It's almost an institutional park. Right. The buyer for that is institutional. Kevin: So, it would it will be when we're done with it. Yeah, right now, not even close. But it will be when we're done with it. We evaluated a six and a half cap was where we ran it at. Don: That's your exit point? Kevin: Yeah, that'd be the exit point. Things in Texas right now in this market are trading for like five and a half cap. So, but we were low conservative with the exit there in case it fluctuates. Six and a half cap is what we used. Don: What's the NOI of the park if I may ask you right now. Kevin: Yeah, I don't know. Don, I couldn't do that. I'd be lying if I gave you a number right now. Don: But you're saying you could increase the NOI by roughly 35%? Kevin: That's correct. From a rent increase from a, there's like $120,000 worth of payroll in this park. So, there are lots of family members working there, there's a lot of expense line items that can be shaved down as well. Payroll being one big one. As I said, there's about a $65,000 water recapture issue that's happening. I'm not sure where it's going. It's either people aren't being charged, or there's a pretty massive leak.  Just between that and payroll alone, there's $100,000 of additional revenue to be had. Filling in the remainder of the RV lots that are there with park model homes is a major boom, thinking assuming that you're in the 450 range as far as lot rents are concerned. Adding those 26 homes there is a major boom for that park as far as revenue and then if you raise the rents on the remainder of the park, and you get to that $450 mark, which is $75 above where it's at today. Let's just say that on all 200 lots in that park that we were able to achieve another $75 of revenue so that's another $180,000 a year of annual income that doesn't have any costs associated with it other than a rent letter increase going out. There are no additional costs associated with achieving that additional revenue. So just between that and shaving off some of the lifetime expenses, there's $280,000 of additional revenue there to be had. Don: Okay, so I want to ask you a question regarding buying a park that is currently in such a bad situation and condition that it doesn't cash flow, or it does, but not enough. So, it could be, you know, sometimes don't have negative cash flow. So, is that something that you recommend if there's a solid value on them, or that's something you would never do? You always want to buy something that cash flows right now. And so, when you buy it from day one, you already make money? Kevin: This one will cash flow. So, this one will support itself. We're not going to pay for all these improvements out of the cash flow. That's just a bad plan altogether. So, we're going to put up all this capX money as of right from the get-go. This is going to be funded right in the beginning. So, this one, not that situation. This one supports itself. Would we get into it if it didn't support itself? Probably not. It's just there's a lot of risks there on that size of a deal. If it truly is a negative cash flow. I feel very confident about it, but the timing gets Off relatively quickly, when you have such a major renovation project, just lining up crews and contractors. Missing a year off deadline on a big project like this is not unheard of, it could be very commonplace.  So, it gets very expensive if you're truly losing money on a monthly basis, and you missed the target by a year of when these parks ready. So, if we're off by six months or a year, the park still makes money and still makes sense. It's still generating good levered cash on cash return while we're making these improvements. Now, there's a park we got in Georgia. Going into it, we knew number one, we didn't want to be in that marketplace. I didn't like the market all that well. However, what we're buying the park for, it was kind of like, there's no way we can lose here, especially based on the time that we can get the timing right of getting this place cleaned up and renovated, some of these homes so that we should be able to get in and get out and should have little to no risk associated with it. That's what we did took us about 18 months to get in and clean the place up.  We did it with the intent of not taking any cash flow out the place didn't pay for itself. I guess we probably could have taken some cash flow at some point or we just put it all back in property and got it cleaned up, got it stabilized, and then turned around and sold it to a cash buyer and moved on to the next. So that one, we felt confident we had such a low basis in it. However, it's your first deal, and you gotta make it work, I will probably move away from something like that, man, there's just so many things that can go wrong. And it's like you've got all your life savings sunken into this thing or if you got your money and your investors money, but yet, you've never actually done a deal like that before, and you don't have a plan B, then I think it's incredibly risky. I think there's easier ways to make money than to do that, the model I just shared with you. However, I've got experience doing it, I've done it before and allow the money than deal with my own money in a wouldn't have sunk me if that deal wouldn't have gone as planned. And again, our basis was so low that it would have been very hard for us to lose. Don: I understand. Okay, so let's talk about how you find these deals because I know that's a big deal. That's 200 and some spaces, it's more of the institutional buyers typically the people are going to look for that. So how do you find these deals? Kevin: We got a lot of relationships with brokers, but I will say that the majority of the deals that we own today and that we have in our pipeline are due to our efforts. And that is direct mail, pick up the phone and cold call owners. And we take on the role of a broker. I mean, we identify parks in certain markets that we like, and we try to build a rapport with the owner or someone in the family that has ownership of that property. And this particular deal in Texas I gave you, you say it's an institutional it will be. However, it's not today, no institution, the right mind would touch this thing in the current condition that it's in. However, I know that it will be an institutional play once we're done with it. So that's where we hope to get it but that one was found via cold call, it was listed when we called on it.  However, it was not listed on like loop net or any of the big commercial side that had a local commercial broker that had it marketed. I don't know where the heck he was marketing and Don, I'd never seen it before and normally I see pretty much everything that gets on the market. He had been asking, I think over $8 million for I think eight and a half million or something like that. He's not a mobile home park broker. He didn't understand the business. A lot of development happening right in this immediate area. I think that he's a little off what that lands worth. However, that's how he was marketing and it was like eight and a half million dollars. And we made a number of offers over the last six months and finally really took our offer knew we could execute on it. So that was a cold call.  We get a lot from the cold calls, we get a lot from direct mail. But our goal is to really build relationships with owners, not just send them a piece of mail saying, "Hey, we buy mobile home parks, you'll call us." That doesn't work all that well. You know, our goal with the letter is a very personalized letter. And then we typically follow up with a phone call and just say hi, say hello, go to the relationship. You get to meet these folks at industry events that they're going to be attending. If I'm going to be in the local area, if I'm visiting another property, I get on our spreadsheet, I see who else has a park in that area, how we communicate with them. So, I try to get together coffee, try to grab lunch, what have you. Just build these relationships doing the same things a lot of brokers do, but we do it on our behalf. The goal of doing that is that remove competition because as soon as it gets into a broker's hand, it's their fiduciary responsibility to get the highest dollar amount for it right even if it's a pocket listing, per se. More than likely that pocket listing is going to get handed off to a number of potential buyers. We've never sold a property directly to the owner we've always used the broker. I get their capacity and where they fit in. I just don't like being the guy on the buy-side that has to bid against five other people for the same property. So, we typically go right to the owners. Don: When you get into a mobile home park and you see that it needs a lot of work, what would you say the price per pad? Of course, I know it depends on many factors that condition but what would you say is the dollar amount you have to renovate in case you have to put roads, in case you have to work on electricity and work on the septic tanks? Kevin: I can tell you what we do as far as like setting reserves aside on an annual basis per lot per year, we set aside a certain amount of money for ongoing capital reserve items, right but as far as like day one, what's needed. It's all across the board. This park here in Texas is going to be half a million dollars, we closed on the park just a couple of months ago up in Indiana. Its pristine man. It's so nice. We're kind of joking with where do we spend 10 thousand dollars. There's not much to do at all and all the water and sewers directly built by the city, public utilities built by the city, the roads are the perfect shape, all the structures are in good shape. So, we are not putting hardly any money into and it's not because we don't want to because there's nothing to do to it, there are no improvements that make. Now that was a good deal. It's probably one of the nicest parks we own. It's gorgeous. It's an 85 lot park, 42 the lots are occupied. It's all double wides. Hundred percent double wides. We paid 750 for it. Lot rents are $317 a month in direct build city, water, city sewer. All the 85 lots are developed, all the infrastructure hookups are there for 85 homes.  However, there's only 42 in there. I'm not sure the story behind why it never really truly got off the ground, but it's a very high-end community. In fact, despite one of the nicer neighborhoods in this area to live even nicer than some stick-built homes. Some people just don't know what the heck they're doing. I mean, the guy was nice, the seller. He had known for seven years. There were three vacant double wides and then a fourth vacant double, which is the office. They have a nice office there, which will keep it as an office but it's a big double-wide so that came with the sales probably $50,000 home. And three other vacant double wides had over the last seven years, people had just abandoned. This guy never did anything with them. They have just been sitting there locked up, kind of preserved, you know, they all need some rehab. But we just got done rehabbing the first one couple weeks ago, we sold it for $23,900. Put about $9000 into it, and we got it for free. We're renovating the second one right now or I'll put about 10 or 11 into it and total renovation. And it'll probably sell for $24900. And then the third one about the same price point. So, the guy never does anything. He's double eyes. They just sat there money going down the drain. Yeah, yeah, that was a cold call effort. Don: You're going to fill out all the lots, right? Kevin: We haven't fully decided yet. I don't know what we're trying to wait and see. We bought it with the intent that it made sense even without infilling lots because it's a small town. So, we didn't run the performer based on Hey, we got to fill in X amount of loss per year because I just don't know what the demand. I'm not sure yet as to what that demand looks like and how many homes we could sell a year.  So, what we're trying to use as a determining factor is how fast he's used mobile homes will sell the ones that we acquired through the sale. As we renovate them, if I got people showing up left and right on these next couple of deals with $25,000 cash in hand, they'll tell me that there's at least a market for probably $25,000 to $35,000 homes. However, I'm still not dead set on that there's a market for $60,000 or $70,000 homes. So anyway, the next couple of months will tell us a lot as to what kind of money people have that live there. And then that will help us decide what the next steps are as far as in filling that community. So that's the plan. I just don't know how many homes a year will be that we bring in. Don: I also don't like specifically on mobile home parks talking to brokers. So, I'm also calling and doing cold calls and talking directly with sellers and I have found out that it's probably the best way to do this in this space. I don't know why, I mean in multifamily, it wasn't working quite well for me when I was trying to call the owners directly but in mobile home parks, it does. For some reason, you call people and they're nice. Why do you think that is? Kevin: I don't like being cold-called. I hate being cold-called. However, one of my business partners that I own some of my private portfolio with, he picks up the phone, anyone calls. He also talked about a lot of the owners are still of the older generation, like our parent's generation. They're nicer, they're friendlier. They're used to having conversations in person, not just on a text message. Back in their day, how they communicated, right, they spoke with each other, they had an open line of dialogue. So I think that's why 15 years from now, I think that you might find that a completely different story, as far as mobile home parks are concerned, like who the owners are on the other side and are you able to have good quality conversations with them or is it just going to be in order to take on the other side, and you will never be able to get to the decision-maker. Don: So, what do you think is the best way for somebody who's trying to learn that asset class? What do you think they should do? Is it listening to podcasts and reading books? Where do you think it is the best information? Kevin: Education is the start with everything right? Thank God today we have podcasts. There's so much free information out there. We've got a mobile home park-specific podcasts, we've got 100 plus episodes. Lots of our earlier episodes are very granular. They go into like the operational side, we go into very deep intricacies on the finding the value and underwriting a park. Go listen to, you know, the hundreds of hours where the podcasts that are out there ours and there are other ones as well that are good. There are places like bigger pockets that have a dedicated mobile home park section of their forum. There's another dedicated mobile home park forum out there, you know, so there are lots of places to get free information.  However, at some point in time, it's a matter of actively doing something. And sometimes it doesn't mean by yourself. I've always had partnerships, I enjoy it. I know what my strengths are, I know my weaknesses are. No one's good at everything. So being able to identify someone who's out there already doing it can help fast track your success in the space, find out what their weaknesses are. And maybe that's where your strengths lie, and your team up with something that's already got a little bit of traction, and has already done some deals or they're doing deals currently. You can kind of dive in and help them grow their business. That's a much faster way to do it then going at it all by yourself. However, some people don't want to partner they want to go at themselves, but you gotta take action some point of time. I'm going to buy a deal and everything that you've learned in theory, you know, will come into play. However, you'll learn things that don't pan out exactly how they did theoretically right? You learned by being in the trenches and doing a deal. Don: Of course. So, in case anybody wants to get in touch with you and kind of do something together, what is the best way to connect with you? Kevin: They can find me on my website. It's Kevinbupp.com. I do two weekly podcasts. One's real estate investing for cash flow. It's a commercial real estate investing podcast, you can find that on the kevinbupp.com website, or company website is sunrisecapitalinvestors.com. So if you want to see what we got going on the mobile home park space, that's where you can find that. And then we also have a mobile home park investing podcast. You can find any of our podcasts on iTunes, you just search my name, or search mobile home parks or real estate investing, you'll find it there. I'm not too hard to track down, Don. So, between a couple of those ways, yeah, they can't find me then they're not looking hard enough. Don: Okay. Well, Kevin, I want to thank you for being on the show today. And we appreciate all the insights you gave us. Kevin: Yeah. Thanks, Don. Thanks for having it's been a lot of fun. Don: All right. Thank you. Have a great day. Lady: Thanks for listening to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden. Stay tuned for more episodes. Till next time.  

Engineering Influence welcomes Kevin Flaker, Becca Schmidt, & Ryan Karlin, the hosts of the “Close of Business” podcast. Kevin, Becca and Ryan are all young professional engineers at Black & Veatch who started the podcast as a place for young professionals in STEM to discuss all issues related to tech, innovation, work/life balance and any and all issues related to the science and engineering industries.  Subscribe to their podcast on Spotify, the Apple podcast here and wherever podcasts are heard.  Check them out!Transcript:Host: Welcome to another episode of the engineering influence podcast. ACC is regular series of podcasts. We're here today with the three presenters of the close of business podcast, which they build is the one and only podcast for young STEM professionals. All three are engineers at black and Veatch. So why don't we start off by the, each of you introducing yourself and telling us a little about yourself.Kevin: All right. I don't know. I'll go ahead and my name is Kevin flaker and first thank you for having us on and letting us join your podcast. We've all three are engineers at Black & Veatch. I am an electrical engineer. I work in the solar design business. I design solar fields for a living and podcasting is, I guess as you would say, a side hustle for me.Becca: My name's Becca Schmidt. I'm also, I'm an engineer mechanical engineer who's been focused on designing a natural gas fired power plants and just transitioned over to to doing business development and sales, more client facing work.Ryan: And then I'm the third cohost. A name is Ryan Carlin. Instead of those two, I am a civil engineer, so he got all of covered. I have been focused in the power delivery group transmission line and substation work. So kind of diverse engineers within the power business. But all have love for podcasts. Yeah.Host: Yeah. I've really enjoyed it. I've listened to a few of them and they're really well done. It sounds like you guys have a lot of fun doing it. It, you, when you first started, you were saying that, you know, this is, this is from people who have never looked up on Google how to do a podcast. How did, how did you guys decide to do a podcast?Kevin: Yeah, so a couple of years ago, a few of us were pulled into somewhat of a roundtable here at Black & Veatch. And the purpose of the discussion was to look for ways for Black & Veatch to engage more in the community. We're a severely industrial or in the past we're heavy in the industrial power water, telecom businesses and not necessarily more on the commercial side. So we were just kind of throwing around ideas for ways for us to connect into the community. And I happened to just start getting into podcasts and listen to podcasts and love how much you can learn. So I threw this idea out there that, you know, we could create this podcast. It would be a way for us to engage with community on the different projects we're doing. The work we're doing at Black & Veatch. But then also selfishly it was going to be, if it went through a cool way for me to being a recent graduate, look up all these different cool industry technologies that were emerging as well as all the different things Black & Veatch was doing.Kevin: And being able to like research that for myself as well as share that on the podcast format with the community. And what that's transformed into today is not so much of a, here's what we do at Black & Veatch, but more of a, here's a generic STEM podcast where we talk about technology across, we try to reach all industries, not just power or water, telecom. Oh, you know, we talk about autonomous vehicles and the Hyperloop, just any really cool thing going on in the STEM industry and just bring that to the community. And I guess utilize Black & Veatch's knowledge when when applicable.Becca: And in addition to that, we talked a lot about engaging with the millennial workforce, the millennial group. We felt like there's this external perception of what engineers and people working in the STEM industry are really like. And the three of us kind of like to categorize ourselves as something that's kind of against the grain, not the typical stereotypical, nerdy, nerdy engineer, you know, and we wanted to present, you know, what it can be like to be an engineer, that it's this really cool and exciting thing and it doesn't have to be over complicated or super nerdy.Becca: It can be talking about just cool things going on in the STEM industry, literally over beers and communicating it in a really digestible, relatable way too.Ryan:  And that's kind of just to give a hindsight how we got the name close of business. So it was all meant around, you know, having to close the business, you know, when everyone goes home or goes to a happy hour, kind of just talking recent news or STEM-related stuff in a fun and kind of informal manner. So we try to kind of play on that and have an informative yet fun kind of atmosphere.Becca: Kind of a long winded response. But we put it all on the table.Host: It really comes across and I especially in your early ones when when you were sort of finding your feet what do, I mean all three of you are, are really quite young. I mean, I, if I'm right, I mean you're all graduated since like 2015 or 2014 is is what does that bring, do you think to your, your program? I mean, you know, the, the picture of the old stodgy engineer with the time and you guys are not that obviously, but it, what impact does your age do you think have on this?Ryan: I think I mean one is just a different perspective, you know, we don't know what we don't know type of thing, so we're not afraid to ask questions. Kind of along the same lines of our audience. We're learning just as much when we're preparing for these episodes as our listeners. So I mean, I think, I think that's one big thing that I see.Kevin: Yeah. I guess one of the focuses or one of the, one of the purposes for this podcast would be to kind of grow and influence STEM in younger generations, whether that be college students who are studying in the field and are, or maybe flirting with the idea of getting into STEM industry, but don't really know, like, you know, that's a huge entry point when you start talking science and tech. It's kind of scary, daunting at first or even high schoolers who are interested. So I think like we're able to bridge the gap to where we can communicate with the experts in the industry. We have the connections, but at the same time, we're still learning ourselves. So we're able to, as Ryan mentioned, ask the questions that the everyday listener would be asking. You know, we're not experts. We hardly know what we're talking about. And I think that's kind of our trick.Becca: Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of the perception that of that I've had with the people that I work with here is that, you know, they're experts now, but what were they like when they were developing as young adults, young people in their career. And I think we're all kind of like finding ourselves when we're learning throughout our, our careers and also learning what it's like to be a young adult in early on in your career, in developing through all of that. It's something that people don't really talk about as much. And in reality, when we all started working full time, we didn't know we were doing, Oh, that's totally fine to community, still trying to communicate that, you know. And that's something that we are really passionate about engaging with our listeners on as well.Host: Yeah, no, you can hear the passion obviously, and the enthusiasm. I mean, what have you, have you learned about your listeners at all? Do you know who they are? You know, are they, are they the young people who are thinking about getting into STEM or are they other engineers?Ryan: I'd say it's kind of a wide range. So we've gone to college career fairs and some people have listened to the podcasts, you know, they love it and they say they get good stuff out of it. But then also, you know, we do episodes kind of internally and they're released and we have executives come up to us whether within black and Veatch or external companies, and they kind of share their interests and kind of excitement about the podcast. So, I mean, I think just, we're geared towards young professionals, but I don't think that really leaves us out of, you know, Quinn Robinson, who's on your guys's board. He's a big fan as well. And I want to call him a young professional. So it kind of all ages, I guess, in that sense. Yeah.Host: Yeah. How do you guys how do you come up with your, to your topics, the, I mean you've done 33 so far, that's a lot of things to think of and, and, and bring and research and bring to the air.Becca: Yeah. It's a combination of tapping into all of the different things that are all the different innovative things that are happening within Black & Veatch. A lot of the people that we've interviewed so far professionals that are doing really awesome, big innovative things within the company and we're excited about it and we want to communicate that with the, within the world, what we want to commute that out into the community. And then also just things we're interested in too. A lot of times it's us just we're on the internet work, curious reading about what's going on in that STEM industry and we'll talk about it amongst ourselves and we're like, this is a really cool thing to do, a podcast episode about.Kevin: And one cool thing that's happening is as we grow within Black & Veatch, we have more and more people reaching out to us with topic ideas or inviting us to go to conferences where, you know, we just came back from San Francisco at a Singularity University summit where there are topics talking about, you know, Bitcoin and digital currency, AI, space, like all these really cool topics and you know, we're getting invited to go there. So we find our topics via presenters at these conferences or you know, clients of Black & Veatch, you know, black and beaches worked with Tesla or Volkswagen with the electrify America. So, you know, our clients are also the ones who are out there innovating in this industry. So we're, we're being put in contact with a bunch of different people as well.Host: I mean, I tell that you guys were at Power Gen I mean, you guys do get around it. I mean, is it is it the podcast taking you there or are you going there and then using that for the podcast?Kevin: Well, I think it's 100% the podcast taking us there.Ryan: Yeah, we've definitely got a lot of support from within Black & Veatch. I mean they really liked the idea of the podcast and kind of what we bring to the table. And so Black & Veatch has really been supportive about, you know, giving us a budget. And that budget allows us to do things like, you know, buy new fancy equipment or go to these conferences or I may have you, so I really say it's a podcast that's really funded a lot of this. Yeah.Host: Yeah. I would say the you know, it doesn't feel like a Black & Veatch podcast if at all. It feel, I mean, I guess when you mention it, yeah, you do talk to a lot of Black & Veatch people, but it doesn't feel like you're doing this to promote the company, you know, which is great.Kevin: That's a very important point. We don't, we don't want to be a podcast that shoves Black & Veatch down the listeners throat because that will just be a turnoff in all honesty. It's an obvious marketing scheme and that's not what we are here. We're, we're basically utilizing our contacts because we work with these people. They know us, they reach out to us the most. But as we see I'm willing to bet if we were to look back, like the first half are mainly Black & Veatch centric, but as we started to expand and grow our network, we are focusing on I don't want to do you want to call it external initiatives and stuff like that. So we definitely want to utilize Black & Veatch when we can, but we also don't want to, you know, make it all about Black & Veatch.Host: Yeah. What looking back over all the, the episodes, what are some of your favorite episodes that people might want to, to listen to?Becca: Yeah. I think one of my personal favorites was when we had the opportunity to interview Eric Anderson who is the executive chairman for top golf and CEO for West River Group. That was a great opportunity because that's PR one because it was one of the most high profile people that we've been able to sit down and talk to, but also a lot of the business and leadership and entrepreneurship insights that he gave us were completely invaluable. And then also the additional content that we have on that episode. We focus on technology and sports and the three of us are really big sports fans. And so it was kind of like a wonderful merging of worlds and just us being able to really truly show our personality and show our interest on that episode. That's definitely one of my favorite ones. And Kevin's having a hard time deciding,Kevin: I've got a couple, I'll give you two, I guess. One of my favorites I guess I would say would be the Hyperloop, one of the Hyperloop discussions we had, and this was kind of more early on at around episode 10 or so. Yeah, but it was, I mean, Hyperloops kind of continued to get a lot of the limelight and just selfishly, you know, I learned a lot from doing that episode about what Hyperloop is. So I mean, I think that's on the kind of still applies today even though that was maybe one a year ago. And then the other one probably I would say is he's a little bit of a wild card. But Tom Friend we interviewed him at PowerGen. He just give a quick background. He's like, was what? He was in the air force and then now he w he was a consultant for Duke Energy. He's a scrum or like agility consultant. He's kind of all over the place. But super fascinating and intriguing guy. And that was probably one of my favoritesBecca: Talk about somebody who's passionate about learning. Tom Friend was the most passionate about learning.Ryan:  Yeah, he was, it was a fun interview. I think, you know, I just, I just want to say all of the guests you've had and all the topics we've covered are great. Let me just put that out there. My, my favorite is probably the Prekapa Sankar interview that we just completed at singularity university, mainly because this is a woman dominating the STEM industry at such a young age. She's on her second company right now and data and AI for good. Yeah. And that's like the future and that's where, you know, the probably going to be the dominating technology coming in the next 10, 15 years and she's already at the helm of it. And I'm more excited to have interviewed her then maybe about the topic just cause like I'm excited to see what she can do in the future.Becca: She's going to make a big impact on the planet. She, she already is, but she's gonna make really big impacts. So, yeah.Host: And I guess from your, from your visit out to Singularity or do you have other, other podcasts planned, maybe something on blockchain or something?Ryan: Yeah, we are. Blockchain episode fell through. We did get a little bit into it with Tom Friend, we'll say, but he, he was so passionate and so like educated on it that, you know, we try to slow him down and yeah, that's definitely something we need to do is like a block chain 101 episode because it is kind of like a really vague idea that's kind of hard to explain and process and we have a hard time understanding it sometimes. So definitely that would be something we want to help our viewers unders or listeners understand as well. So trust me, that's, that's on the list of ideas.Kevin: We do have an episode, one more episode from singularity to coming up with the CEO of Upwork. who was a Silicon Valley guy back in the PayPal and all that those days. So really cool guy. I got to sit down and talk with him about the future of work play more than anything else. So Upwork is a, what do you, freelance platform online like one of the largest and one of the largest in the world. And he has really great insights about what the future of the workforce is going to be like and how we need to adapt and how Upwork is helping the workforce adapt as well. Yeah. SoHost: Well you guys really get into a lot. I that you actually had, didn't you have one on space recently?Becca: We just released one on a little bit of a space topic. One of the more random, we interviewed the chief scientist, Bruce Betts from the planetary society. For those who aren't familiar with the planetary society, it's a non nonprofit crowdfunded space exploration and research company headed by the boy, bill Nye, bill Nye the science guy.Becca: Yeah, so it's his, his company. And Bruce bets was one of the people who led on the LightSail 2 mission. I can go into all sorts of details about that, but you can listen to our episode and you might learn a little bit more about what that technology is.Kevin: If you want to hear an interview that had absolutely no outline or plan, listen to that. Cause we literally grabbed him from off stage and interviewed him with no questions or anything, just kind of let the conversation go. And I think it was pretty funny and random because of that.Becca: And it's still super educational as well.Host: Well for, for if any of our members were listening and were thinking maybe they wanted to start a podcast, what, what would your, what your advice be for them to, to as a member of a member firm to get a successful podcast going?Ryan: Yeah. And I think this answer may apply to more than just a podcast. It's really anything that you think is kind of entrepreneurial within your company or just in general is I think just taking the bull by the horns and kind of holding yourself accountable. You know, Kevin was a ringleader of this, but just him making the statement that he thought it would be a good idea kind of puts the wheels in motion. And without that kind of first step you're never gonna actually achieve anything. So, you know, we, Kevin, myself, Becca, we didn't know how a podcast recording and the whole post-production, all that stuff, that was all new to us when we started out. But it's just something you kind of learn as you go. You know, it took us a while to release our first couple of episodes and kind of master what we we're doing. We've been doing it what for two years now and we're still not mastered. So yeah, just like any new skill or hobby, you know, it takes, takes time and takes initiative and action and kind of holding yourself accountable.Kevin: I guess from, from with inside a company, if we want to look at that mind frame, if you have an idea, I think in any successful company you're going to have leaders that support most ideas. And I think, yeah, like Ryan said, the biggest thing is speaking out, expressing your idea and then following through with it as Ryan said. But I think like the biggest thing was I spoke out in a meeting and there are leaders in that meeting that were willing to be like, you know what, let's run with this. We'll give you five hours a week, let's see what you can do. And since then, iteration after iteration, we've grown to have, you know, a larger budget but also make sure that whatever it is you're doing is something that you love. And I know that sounds kind of cliche, but one thing that we found is we're full time engineers.Kevin: So we work 40 plus hours a week doing engineering work or Becca with business development. And this is something we have to do on the side. And it's really hard to put in the extra hours when it's not something you enjoy. So you have to make sure you enjoy it first if you're really gonna be successful in it.Becca: I think just jumping off of things that they both said, we're really fortunate that there is leadership within Black & Veatch that supports innovation. They see the value in what we're doing here. And we feel really fortunate that there are leaders here that were willing to take a chance on us and help us progress through this whole project and see where it could go. So we're really thankful for that. And then in addition, yeah, the passion is super important. And then also just finding a voice that's different than what is out there now.Becca: We think that we had a, and we still do believe that we have a different perspective than anybody else out there on the podcast platform. And we have a voice and we have things to say and we're hoping that we're teaching people and they're learning and also just give, giving people a better perspective on what our industry is about and the kind of impacts we're wanting to make as well. Yeah.Ryan: And one last thing I would just add to that is, one thing I've noticed talking to a lot of these interviewees is most companies are passionate about kind of motivating and giving ownership to young employees. Most companies have a STEM related kind of program. And so I think you know, don't be afraid to kind of speak out and speak your idea. Like we've kind of been saying so far. Yeah.Host: Yeah. And from, you know, being in the industry, writing about the industry for the last 12 years, I mean, one of the big issues is how do you motivate your younger employees, you know, the, the baby boomers don't understand the millennials sort of thing. And this seems to be a an example of a way of doing it.Becca: 100%. Yeah. I think in general, us in the millennial generation are really motivated by kind of like a greater calling. I don't come to work everyday because I know I'm going to be sitting in responding to emails or doing calculations. It's because I know that I'm coming to work and I'm contributing to a better society, a better community, a better infrastructure, so that we as a community can live a healthier, more comfortable life. And I think that this is just another outlet for us to discuss that and try and get that out into the world a little bit more.Host: Well, great. Well that, that, that I think you've guys have covered the gamut here. So I'm, I really appreciate your coming on and I urge our our listeners to tune into the Close of Business podcast. You guys are on a Spotify, right?Ryan: Yeah. Spotify, Apple podcasts, any, any really podcast forum.Ryan: Yeah. The best way just to look up whatever you listen to on podcast closed the business and you'll find us. And hopefully you enjoy the episodes. And if you got questions or comments reply to us. But otherwise you can email us to that. cobpodcast@gmail.com. Awesome.Host: Well, thank you. 

Working for yourself is very rewarding, but it’s also quite challenging. Like every job, there are pro’s and con’s, but as you put more time into building your business that you have created, you could see a significant increase in your revenue. Today, WTR welcomes Laura Pennington Briggs of The Freelance Coach (https://betterbizacademy.com/) , author, freelancer, and speaker. In this podcast, join us as we discuss how to evolve as a business owner and why it’s important to diversify your income.Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently.Laura Pennington Briggs Website: http://www.betterbizacademy.com/ (http://www.betterbizacademy.com/) Website 2: http://sixfigurewritingsecrets.com/ (http://sixfigurewritingsecrets.com/) Website 3: http://www.legalseowriter.com (http://www.legalseowriter.com/) LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/laurapenningtonwrites (http://www.linkedin.com/in/laurapenningtonwrites) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/laurapenningtoninternational/ (https://www.facebook.com/laurapenningtoninternational/) Twitter: https://twitter.com/sixfigurewriter (https://twitter.com/sixfigurewriter) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGhKNcbq3QWhpgHZV4Y-xPQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGhKNcbq3QWhpgHZV4Y-xPQ) NOTES [00:37] Kevin: Laura Briggs is an author, freelancer, and speaker. What we're going to talk about today is the financial impact of working for yourself [01:07] Would you mind sharing a little bit about your background and what inspired you to get to where you are today? [01:24] Laura: I turned to a side hustle (working as a digital freelance writer) [01:30] My business ultimately grew to the point where it was too hard for me to hold down my day job and side hustle. So I moved that side hustle into my full time and that's what I've been doing for the last 6 years [02:10] Kevin: What are the pro's and con's about working for yourself other than being hard on yourself since you are your own boss? Laura: [02:17] Pro's [02:19] Freedom and flexibility [02:24] Deciding how you'd like to spend your work hours per week [02:33] The potential to make more money [02:42] You set your rates and your fees and can add or remove things as it makes sense [02:48] More income flexibility [02:55] You get to decide who you work with [03:08] Con's [03:09] You are your own boss [03:12] You have to work many hours especially in the start-up phase [03:21] Paying your own taxes [03:23] You don't necessarily get that money dropped into your bank account every 2 weeks [3:30] Have to account for self-employment tax, Medicare, social security, and income tax [03:45] Your business bleeds into every aspect of your life [04:02] Because so much of it is in your mind, it's always around (not as easy as a corporate job) [04:11] Kevin: What I have found with running WTR is there's a lot of prep work before you actually start the podcast (research and new ideas that you're always thinking about) [05:38] Laura: I always feel like the pro's always count so much more than the con's [05:44] Any job and career is going to have some negative aspects [06:00] Kevin: Financially speaking, working for yourself can be more flexible. How has it impacted you financially speaking? [06:08] Laura: I grew my business pretty quickly after leaving my full time job. Once I was able to dedicate more time to it, I saw my revenue increase significantly [06:18] I've been able to scale my business to the 6 figure point for the last several years [06:28] I look for ways that I can diversify my income (evolving as a business owner) [07:13] I'm always raising my rates and ways that I cannot just get paid once for something [07:42] Other avenues like books, courses, coaching (additional revenue streams) [08:29] Kevin: So you have multiple income streams...

We often feel an urgency to start saving for retirement at a young age. “Start saving in your qualified plan (401k) now or you won’t have enough money for retirement!” Maybe we should change our thinking and accept that the economy is changing, and what worked for our parents and grandparents might not necessarily work in this developing economy. Join Daniel Ameduri, of Future Money Trends (https://www.futuremoneytrends.com/) , and WTR as we discuss why having a passive income could be what you need for building wealth and living the life you thought was merely an illusion, and what you can achieve if you adapt to living in the present. Ingenious tactics to accumulate wealth, for people who see things differently. Daniel Ameduri Website: (https://www.futuremoneytrends.com/) Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/FutureMoneyTrends/) Twitter: (https://twitter.com/FutureMoneyTren) YouTube: (https://www.youtube.com/user/FutureMoneyTrends) Notes: Kevin: Daniel is the author of the new book “ Future Money Trends (https://www.futuremoneytrends.com/tag/daniel-ameduri) Clearly, you tend to think outside of the box. What inspired you to get to where you are today? Daniel: I’ve always had a fascination with money Unfortunately, when you make a lot of money in a bubble when you’re young, you’re destined for a blowup which happened to me Kevin: Robert Kiyosaki says “The poor way of thinking is ‘I can’t afford that’, whereas the wealthy way of thinking is ‘How can I afford that?'” Daniel: The biggest thing that you can to cut spending is moving (either out of state, out of the country, or to another part of the state you reside it) Can reduce the expenses by about 50% Buying for cash flow instead of buying for appreciation Most retirement savers are just speculating and hoping things go up, but my book focuses on how you can rethink that If it doesn’t bring you a check don’t buy it Kevin: I find it interesting in you saying not saving for retirement because typically, when people are talking about money in terms of retirement, people say they’re going to save for retirement and put money into their retirement savings account, which usually is a 401K or another IRA We make a distinction when we talk about money where you have two tanks for money Investment tank that has risk (you could lose money) Savings tank that is relatively safe If you put your money in a 401K or an IRA, it’s in a mutual fund and in the market, meaning it has risk (not a savings account) Daniel: So many people don’t know what they’re invested in and they continue to hope that it pays off It’s time to start asking ‘Is this even working?’ According to VanGuard, the median account holder who is 65+ with a 401K is only $58,000 Kevin: How could you survive with $58,000? For most people, that would get them by living a minimal life for approximately 2 years or so Daniel: It is very minimal. Perhaps they’re dependent on social security now You wonder what the lost opportunity was that they had just bought something that would pay them a dividend or pay them a yield, let’s say whether they’re investing in real estate or maybe they want to buy a single family home Kevin: I’m assuming that you would invest those dividends back in maybe to another property or expanding into other investments? Daniel: It depends what stage of the game you’re at If you’re young and you have great active income then go for it Later in life you may decide you want to use half of the passive income to pay for your vacation, your bills, your house, a change in career, etc. Kevin: So in terms of passive income, investing in two things that deliver a check to your mailbox or into your account, are there other options

The more a seller expands his net, the more buyers he can catch. Often on the Amazon seller revenue lines we see the lack of traction on the international side of the game. How can you get your brand safely and productively into other Amazon Markets? The truth is that Amazon UK or any other country off the .com grid are potential revenue streams and expansion opportunities if approached in the right way. Today's guest walks us through that expansion process step by step so that business owners and buyers can envision the opportunities to be had. Kevin Sanderson is a multiple six figure seller with over three years of experience on Amazon. When he started out simply selling on Amazon he had one item and very quickly turned that into about 80 skus. He learned that by expanding into the international marketplace he could target products that he could plug into that market successfully. He has a passion for helping others successfully sell on Amazon's International Marketplaces via his website and podcast and is here to tell you how you can succeed beyond dot com. Episode Highlights: Which products are best for which country and where to start in the sell. Reasons Kevin recommends starting in Canada to get your feet wet. Where to go next and how to get over the translation hurdle overseas. Why Germany stands out in the arena. The recommended steps and estimated time-frame for the expansion process. What Amazon offers by way of help. Differences in taxation in the international marketplaces. How to approach the customer service aspect in those markets. Services that Kevin offers for someone looking to expand internationally. The importance of attending ECommerce events for opening doors and connecting. Transcription: Mark: Joe welcome back from your vacation, you've been gone for a few weeks and Quiet Light Brokerage absolutely nothing happened because you aren't here. Joe: Did you missed me at all? I think I had an email reminder, a notification in there that said if you really need me find me on Whatsapp and no one needed me at all which is very humbling. The reality is that we think we're really important cogs of the wheel and if there's enough cogs you're not so nobody missed you at all. Mark: Well the truth is actually people would email you and then they would get my email and then I was home that they don't want to work with you they actually want to work with me so I've just been picking off all your potential clients. Joe: I love it, no, take all those 10 million dollar listings. Thanks, I appreciate that. Mark: Absolutely I appreciate it too, very much, and so does my wife. Anyways this week I want to talk about something that we've seen a lot of with Amazon Sellers. We look at these P&Ls and oftentimes what you see are these revenue lines on the P&Ls where it's your typical Amazon sales coming through and then you see this Amazon UK or Amazon Europe or something like that and you see some revenue kind of pop and then trail off after a while. And when you talk to the client or the seller about this the backstory is always the same. I thought about expanding to Europe and UK but I didn't really gain traction there and it was just a lot more work than I really anticipated so we've decided not to really do that. The fact is though Amazon UK, Amazon Europe, Amazon Canada, and some of these other countries are really, really good expansion opportunities but you have to go about it the right way and that's not always as straight forward as putting the product up and launching that store. You talked to somebody who we guess went over exactly in that process how do you actually expand into in other markets on Amazon. Joe: Yeah it's Kevin Sanderson from Maximizing Ecommerce. He's affiliated or associated with Scott Voelker who we enjoy from the Amazing Seller and Brand Accelerator Live. And Kevin talks about just that. Okay if you're going to expand start here then go there and then go there so that you're getting your feet wet and doing it in a way where you're learning without getting so frustrated you just throw your hands up and walk away which as he said I see too often. Interestingly enough yesterday I'm doing a valuation call and exactly what you talked about revenue line for Amazon.com and Amazon Europe overseas and there were 3 or 4 months of revenue starting to climb, climb, climb, and then nothing because that particular individual just got frustrated. She didn't think she was going to get a bang for a buck there because it was so complicated and confusing for her. But the reality is she took on too much all at once. Kevin's approach is more methodical and I like it. It's simple. It's clean. It's logical. It's not going to be earth-shattering for anybody listening. But what it is going to do is going to give them reinforcement to what they probably already know and what they should do and hopefully will do as well. Mark: Yeah fantastic topic we do have a shout out to give to somebody who guessed the right intro to one of our podcast and you got that email, Joe. Joe: I did it's from Westin Woodelf, I've got a cold after this vacation, Westin Woodelf, he  sent me an email actually while I was on vacation. It is one of the very few emails that I checked. He guessed The Founder which is the story of McDonald's the movie clip. So shout out to you Westin and thanks for listening. I appreciate all the kind words and I assure you we will get more people that bought e-commerce businesses or online businesses from us and we'll get them back on the podcast 6, 12 months after that something that he said he enjoys listening to Mark and wants to hear more of. Mark: Yeah and you know I went to a meetup; a shout out to the people that I met up with for the Rhodium Minneapolis Red Calibers meet up just a couple of weeks ago. I got some good feedback on the podcast there as well you know the point here being not to say guys you have to praise us because we need it for our egos more what do you want to hear. And I got some really good feedback on that. If you guys have stuff that you want to hear or a style of podcast that really stands out to you, let us know, send us an email. We do insist that we want to create content that's useful for you and helpful. And again keep guessing those movie titles that should be fun. The Founder is a great movie as well highly recommended for anyone that loves entrepreneurship. Joe: And we actually respond to emails. Its inquiries@quietlightbrokerage.com Mark and I get those personally. We also have our own personal email addresses which are really complicated joe@quietlightbrokerage.com or mark@quietlightbrokerage.com and Mark as a K, not a C. Mark: I spell it the right way. Joe: You do spell it the right way, sorry everybody else. Alright, let's get to this Kevin Sanderson, Maximizing Ecommerce, how to get your brand safely and productively in other Amazon markets. Joe: Hey folks Joe Valley here from Quiet Light Brokerage and today we've got Kevin Sanderson from Maximizing Ecommerce on the podcast. Kevin, how are you today? Kevin: I'm doing excellent. Thanks for having me. Joe: Where in the world are you? Kevin: I am in south-ish Florida, about 35 minutes north of West Palm Beach. Joe: Alright so we're recording at the end of July so you're definitely inside the house as always, right? Kevin: Oh yes, it's nice and humid. Joe: So as I said in the pre-call here that we don't do fancy intros so why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what your background is. Kevin: Sure. So I've been an e-commerce seller for about 4 years. I remember when I got into the whole thing I just happened to be looking at my phone podcasts and this podcast called the Amazing Seller podcast came up. I was like this sounds interesting so I listened to it. I was like this sounds like something I want to go towards and I went out to Walgreens and they were closing out the summer specials of like whatever they're going to close out to make room for back to school and I bought a bunch of those blue cooler thingy's you'd use in your cooler to keep your cans cooled in the freezer. Joe: Okay. Kevin: And I remember sending some of them off to Amazon with a few other things. And I got an e-mail that my stock had been checked in and I was playing with the app like most people do once you start doing this for a while. It keeps saying this 0 sales, 0 dollars, all this and then all of a sudden I refresh it and there's a 1. I was like hey someone bought it. It was like the day it got checked in. I was prepared like mentally that it might take weeks or whatever but this just like rush of adrenaline came over me. And I went running into the living room and my wife and was like you have to see this and I almost like threw the phone at her. I was so excited. But at first, she thought it was insane just kind of like where is my husband who is this person but then she realized I was just excited about it and then she kind of got it. And so from then on, I've been hooked on the whole e-commerce game. Joe: So it's that easy just go to Walmart, Walgreens, buy some stocked out items and put it on Amazon and you're in business. Everybody succeeds that way, right? Kevin: Yes I came to learn there's more steps in the process for that. It was like one of the things I learned very early on in my resale arbitrage career which is short-lived was that I didn't like having to keep finding stuff and bending it in. So at least what it did was it clicked the switch in my head that like okay this is possible. It's not just I'm hearing someone talking about it. I actually saw like the 0 go to a 1 and it became real to me. Like okay now let's go after building my own brand. And so the fall was coming up and at the time I was a high school football official and I decided to take a year's worth of earnings and put that off to the side to go towards my 1st product. And so from let's say February of the following year which would have been 2016 I put up my own branded products and then I kept reinvesting into it. And then back in December of 2018, I left my job and it was like I'm going to do all this full time. And I now have about 80 products that I sell. 80 different SKUs as well as…I sell mostly on Amazon but still try to diversify as much as possible. One of the things that's been very successful for me is selling internationally; so I sell in Canada, the 5 European marketplaces, Japan, and I'm about to launch in Australia and Mexico. Joe: Okay and that's what we're going to dig into today folks is how to expand beyond Amazon.com into these other marketplaces. You know I have multiple valuation calls a week talking to people that are looking to exit someday and just yesterday I talked to somebody that we have…she's a friend of Scott Voelker from The Amazing Seller who you're friends with as well. And she tried to expand to Europe and found that it was just too complex and complicated. So it's funny one of the growth areas that savvy; not savvy, that's the wrong word because this person is actually very savvy. One of the growth areas that people with a kind of international experience see is international. They'll look at an Amazon business it's US only and they can see where it may plug into one of the European markets or all of them. Whereas others they try it and they fail because it's just at a level of detail that is not good for them and their business and they stick to one; focus on the US. You set up a business for that where you're helping people expand beyond the US. So talk to me about A. which country because I have a couple in mind I want to see which countries are the best or if it's not that simple that different products are better for different countries. Kevin: Well there's a little bit of different products are the best for different countries. But one simple thing people can do is if their product is selling in the US and they just look up the keyword of how someone might find their product, so if they are selling garlic presses as our friend Scott would use or fishing lures they could look up garlic presses or fishing lures on Amazon.ca or Amazon.co.uk which are the Canadian and UK versions of Amazon and just go to Jungle scout and Jungle Scout will give you an idea. Now don't get caught up in the numbers but what I would say is if you are making sales in the US and similar products to yours are making some sales internationally in those international marketplaces it's at least worth evaluating. You should at least try. Now to your point, there are some hoops you have to jump through. One of the things I recommend to people if you're going to start off with go into Canada because logistically I personally find it easier. They have what's called GST, HST which is their goods and services tax, harmonized sales tax, it's all kind of the same thing but for the most part most people are just going to register with the federal government there and it works very similar to how sales tax work in the US except it's simpler for most people. And in most cases, they're going to have to file for that sales tax once per year. Joe: So do you do that just for the exercise of learning how to go international because it's easy because it is Canada, are you going to get your bang for your buck there, right? The population is 10% of the US so you can expect 10% of your US revenue in terms of Amazon. How do you; is it really worth it? And I think I know the answer. I think I know what you're going to say but I want to hear you say it. Is it really worth it in terms of dollars or is it a combination of dollars and revenue and the exercise of going international and getting comfortable with it? Kevin: I would say all of the above. So the way I look at it is you have a net and as widen that net in the sea of Amazon you're going to catch more fish. And some of those fish are exclusive to; and by fish I mean customers, some of those are exclusive to Canada or they're exclusive to the UK. And as you catch more of those fish you're going to get more sales. So the way I like to look at it is if you said I'm just going to go into all the international marketplaces if you try to do it all at once it's going to be too much. Canada is relatively simple. I think it's a good place to get your feet. So what I did was I went to Canada and then I went to the UK that which is their sales tax is a little more complex and there's more kind of like landmines you could go hit on that you don't want to. So it's best to start off with Canada going to the UK. And then you can go into other parts of Europe and use UK as a base of operations. And the nice thing is if you go into the other marketplaces in Europe you'll most likely have to translate your listings but at least if you're starting off in the UK and Canada you're talking about 2 English speaking countries. So that also lowers some of the barriers. Joe: Okay, so you're saying a little bit of everything going into Canada so I think it's a great idea that people start there. And if all you do; if you're doing $100,000 in discretionary earnings or profit and you expand to Canada and all it does is add $10,000 it's not hard. Kevin will talk about a little bit in terms of how to do it and can help people do it but that additional $10,000 in discretionary earnings if your business is worth a 3 time multiple you just added $30,000 a month to the overall value of your business if you decide to exit someday. But I like that baby-stepping it doing one country at a time starting with Canada and then another English speaking country being the UK. As far as VAT it is complicated. We've done podcasts on it with Avask accounting; the folks over there. Kevin: That's what I use. Joe: Great. Folks use them as well. I know Melanie they refer people back and forth to us. Anytime we've got someone buying a brand that's selling in the UK we always connect people with them because they're good. And for folks, that's AvaskAccounting.co.uk A-V-A-S-K. In terms of the next country so you're going to go Canada then you're going to go UK where do you go next? Kevin: I would say most likely Germany. Germany outside of the UK is going to have some of the best sales in Europe. Now you're starting to get into a different language but there's translation services out there. Amazon has translation services but there are some asterisks that you might not actually be eligible for kind of strange. Joe: I don't think the automated translation services work all that well and here's why. I was just in France and Switzerland and used Google Translate. It kind of worked. I'm literally driving down the highway from I think at the airport to Paris and I'm in the car with an Uber driver and he's got Google Translate up on his phone. I've got it up on mine. I say something and it spits it out in French. We're having this weird conversation but it didn't quite fully translate it properly. So I couldn't imagine using a translation service, an automated translation service like that. What kind of experience do you have with that if you're going to translate something to German? Do you hire individual people that are native speakers or do you use a translation service? Kevin: So I've tried all kinds of different things. I've had Amazon help me with translations and theirs is essentially machine in most cases. Joe: I got it. Kevin: The ones I've seen it's machine translated and then a person checks it. Now the issue is who's checking the checker? So if you're English speaking and you're trying to check whether or not German is correct it's got to be a regular translator. I found a German translator that I've had good luck with and I had someone else check it. So if you find one let's say on Upwork or Fiverr or something and you have someone translate something for you, see if you can hire someone else to critique it. Or if you know someone who speaks German or Spanish or whatever language you want to translate have someone else verify it for you and then you know okay now I've got someone good. I've got; actually oddly enough in the office building, I work out of there's a translation company down the hall that actually they've worked with American Translator Association translators. They have contracts with all the court systems and they've done stuff for GE and Disney and a bunch of other companies. So I've found them to be pretty reputable too. But if you're not 100% sure always have someone else check it. Even if you're hiring let's say on Fiverr and you give like a paragraph of stuff, you can hire 3 or 4 people and have them check against each other. And whoever's getting the best load out of everyone else is probably the one to go with. Joe: Awesome. I think that's a great idea. There's been times I've looked at Amazon listings and I could tell it's been written by somebody that does not speak English as their native tongue and it's obvious and I lose confidence and I don't necessarily want to buy that product. And I imagine it's the same somebody is in Germany thinking it. As far as the countries go, I know that one product is not going to be perfect for all countries but from a brokering standpoint and what I've seen over the last several years is that Germany stands out amongst all of the European countries as the one that seems to bring people that are exiting that have the most sizable business, sizable revenue. Why do you think that is? Is there something about the German marketplace that makes it stronger and larger than the other marketplaces? Is it population? Is it because of the affluent nature of the individuals in that country or is it just pure happenstance? Kevin: I think it's a combination of several different things. So I think as; to take a step back as you go outside of the US and you have more hoops to jump through fewer people want to take those hoops. And then as you start getting into other marketplaces that aren't English now that's another hoop that you have to jump through of getting it translated. So fewer and fewer sellers I think are willing to do that from what I found and so you have less competition. So then combine with I think the population size and the people in Germany; I still do better in the UK than I do in Germany. It could just be my product but I've heard people say the opposite. So it just depends and you never know until you test it. Joe: Okay, Alright so 1st step go to Canada, give it a shot, 2nd UK, and then 3rd another country; Germany. What services are out there? How do you expand? What steps do you recommend someone take in order to go through this process of expanding? And like how much time would you give it? We've talked about 3 countries here so far, what kind of timeframe would you give that in terms of checking those off and moving and expanding into these countries? Kevin: Well if you're doing it alone what you would do is you would 1st register with whatever governmental agency you need to register with. So if it's Canada you go to the Canadian Revenue Agency and register for what's called non-resident importer status and also a GST, HST number. It's all basically the same number, it's just the programs that you're under. Joe: Can all that be done through your Amazon accounts when you want to expand to different countries? Because they're always asking you to expand to different countries, are they offering those services or connections? Kevin: So Amazon will often times help you. Here's my take on Amazon. If they're calling you, answer the phone. It's the way I look at it. See what they have to say. Now I don't want to disparage Amazon but what I've come to find is the people at Amazon they're always very well-intentioned but they're siloed. So no one fully understands the whole journey as a seller that you're going to go through like another seller. So I'm happy to help walk people through that. If people have other friends that are doing it check with your friends and get some advice as well. Just because there are a lot of pieces that even some services like let's say you know I know that there's freight forwarders that will help you get registered in Canada or another country but they may be not getting you into all the programs that you really should be in because they're looking at it from their standpoint of like okay to get stuff across the border you need this but maybe you also need something else that they didn't register you for because that's not necessarily their focus. And then Amazon, their focus is really in my experience the folks who are calling you saying hey sign up in wherever country they're just trying to get you into that country and then from there it's okay go for it. Joe: Okay. First, do the research on that country and make sure that your products are selling or something similar is selling and you've got buyers there. Okay, and how are you dealing with the taxes and registrations? Can you cover that a little bit? We had Avask on the podcast talking about that. Can you talk briefly about the differences on how taxes work on products in the US versus over in Europe? Kevin: Okay. Well, I think the simplest way to look at it is you have 2 buckets of taxes. You have sales tax and you have income tax. So income tax you're still most likely as long as you're using your US-based entity you're going to still owe Uncle Sam assuming someone's from the US, but you're still going to owe Uncle Sam for income taxes or whatever country you live in. So then in that country, there's going to be some sort of tax on the sale; so whether it's a GST, and the VAT; whatever. Joe: What does GST stand for? Kevin: Oh sorry goods and services tax which is the sales tax of Canada. So the nice thing about Canada is in most cases and a disclaimer here is I'm not a tax preparer so please make sure that you check with an appropriate tax professional about your own situation. But what I found is for most people and in talking to people that do this in the tax world is that you're most likely going to in Canada register for the goods and services tax and the harmonized sales tax. It's all just the same thing. Basically, federal tax and you file once per year. It gets added onto the sale just like here in the US. So if they live in a province where let's just say it's 8% and it's $20 then now 1.60 is added on and then you'll remit and file and then you actually in Canada have a few ways that you can save money on what you're giving to the government because if you pay GST at the border or some other way that you're paying you can get credits back. And then it works kind of the same way with credits back in Europe. Now Europe is where it starts getting a little bit more complicated. So the simplest way to look at Europe is where is the inventory getting imported into and where is it being housed. So if it comes across a border you have the requirement to file for VAT or to register and file for VAT in that country. If it's being housed in that country you're required to register and file for that country. So I think the simplest way to do it in Europe is to go into the UK and then keep your inventory in just the UK and they'll allow you to do what's called the European fulfillment network and have your products shipped to the other 4 countries from the UK. Now a lot of times what some people might steer you towards is what's called the pan-European program. It's a little bit of savings but I don't think it's really worth it because you save about a Euro per fulfillment fee and so you think oh wow that's going to add up over time. So the going rate is probably about 7,200 euros per year to be tax compliant, to have somebody do all the tax filings for you and then you end up with like Amazon will put some of your stock in Poland and the Czech Republic those aren't even countries where they have market places but they just store them there. So again once it's stored in a country now you have a VAT requirement and you might have to file; they're filing monthly for you and you have to pay. So you might have to pay the equivalent of like $10or $8 some months to the Polish government and it's just; it's almost like a little nap on your side and it's just like why am I having to do this. Joe: Right. Kevin: So it's expensive and what I came to learn is well I would say the best thing for most people is in Europe you want to sign up for what's called the flat rate scheme. Now when we think of taxes and scheme we think about handcuffs and going to jail. But in Europe scheme just means calculation method. So in most cases, someone who's listening to this is most likely going to be an online retailer and basically, the way it works is if let's say they sell a product in let's say the UK for 12 pounds. The price is actually 10 pounds and 2 pounds of VAT is included in that because the thing that's different about Europe is the price includes the VAT. So just to walk through that math there so you would owe 2 pounds for that sale to the government minus whatever you paid in at the border and whatever other VAT credits you had. Now if you're on the flat rate scheme you don't have to keep all your receipts for everything else. You just file 7½ % so that; just to make the math simple there using that 12 pound product you really just, it's 10 pounds is what you're selling it for so you would owe 7.5% of that which would be 75 pence which is like their pennies over there instead of having to figure out all that other nonsense of like credits and all that. What I found and I could be completely wrong on this is my accountants, they told me, there's not a flat rate scheme currently in the other countries. So if their VAT is 22 or 23% you owe that full 22, 23% as opposed to; because basically, the way it works is instead of like in the US tax is based on, sales tax is based on where the customer lives, in Europe it's where is it being dispatched from; so where they're shipping it from. So if everything is being shipped from the UK you pay the equivalent VAT to the UK. Joe: So that's a pretty substantial saving. You're saving if you're doing penny you're saving a dollar or a euro but the percentages that you're talking about could be pretty substantial in terms of saving if you're shipping off from the UK. Kevin: Yes. Joe: Plus it sounds like your life's going to be a little simpler too. Kevin: Yes. Joe: And I think that's why a lot of people don't expand or expand to the UK and then pull back because it is a little complicated if you do too much too fast. So I like your simple approach here in terms of the flat rate scheme and sticking to the UK. What are you finding in terms of customer service and things of this nature? How do you handle that aspect of it when you're dealing with the European market place if you're in an English speaking native? Kevin: A great question, so there are services out there that will do customer service for you. I've had translators make templates for me because there's a variety of issues that may come up if you've been doing this a while you kind of know what questions people are going to ask you. But also you can do and this is not necessarily something you have to worry too much about because at the end of the day Amazon requires that there's customer service for that customer in the native language. If they're fulfilling it they look at it pretty much as they're handling the customer service. So you will get some emails from time to time that you have to respond to within 24 hours just like you do in the US. And so I sometimes will take the message put it in Google Translate see what it is in English and then I flip it around. So if I'm going back from English to let's say Italian, I then write my response copy and paste the Italian or whatever language I'm using, send it to the customer and I've not really had anyone write back and say I can't believe you just said that to me. Joe: Alright, so it does work in many cases. I did like it. It was an in-depth long conversation about soccer and kids and family with an Uber driver in France where it doesn't work. But I'm sure that in customer service it does work fairly well. Kevin: Yeah like my product didn't arrive, okay we'll send you a new one, usually that that type of thing works pretty well and you can figure out and they can figure out what you mean. Joe: Pretty simple. So, Kevin, you've gone from living in the corporate world to being an entrepreneur. Now you've got 80 different SKUs and you're also; you've got the Maximizing Ecommerce podcast, you are helping other people expand internationally as well. Are you doing that through Maximizing Ecommerce? How does anybody listening that maybe just bought a business and wants to expand internationally is it a service that you offer to help people go beyond the US? Kevin: Yes. So what they could do is if they wanted to go beyond the US actually for your listeners I'd be willing to do a free 30-minute strategy session; no obligation. They could just go to MaximizingEcommerce.com/quiet and it will take them to a page where they can schedule something with me. Just looking for people of course that have an existing business, if they're looking to get started I'll give them a free checklist on how to get their 1st product kind of like how I did. Joe: We'll put that in the show notes as well. Okay. Kevin: Yes and then also if they wanted to hear more live you and I will be hanging out together in September in Fort Worth at Brand Accelerator Live and I will be speaking about selling internationally and then Quiet Light will be there as a sponsor. And then you, I will plug you as well. You will be on stage speaking about how to maximize your sale if you're looking to sell your business one day. Joe: Yeah for folks listening that don't know some of the names we've talked about, Scott Voelker is an entrepreneur, an influencer, a speaker, a motivator, he's got the podcast the Amazing Seller. Scott's local to me sort of in South Carolina. He's got a place up here North Carolina. And Kevin's working with him on Brand Accelerator Live which is Scott's 1st big event. He's bringing in the best people in the marketplace; Greg Mercer from Jungle Scout,  Mike Jackness from eComCrew and a whole lot of other folks. And I'm sort of in a very, very low tier of those folks. Greg and Mike and the other folks like that are very, very well known. Kevin: We're really excited that you're going to be there. Joe: Well thank you. But it's a place where I've heard in terms of the Amazing Seller podcast and what you're doing with Scott it's a place where I've talked to so many people who get such value to grow; and this is the thing, grow their Amazon business but take it beyond Amazon as well and learn about how to market off of Amazon and Shopify and e-mail marketing and Facebook or things of that nature and in the affiliate world and blog world and all that stuff. So I think Scott's done an amazing job with that. I love that you're working with him on this 1st and then we're excited to be there. Anybody that hasn't looked it up yet it's Brand Accelerator Live, is that right? Kevin: Yeah Brand Accelerator Live. They can go to BrandAcceleratorLive.com and if someone is listening to this and is saying well I've never been to a live event before whether it's Brand Accelerator Live or something else if they're listening to this in the future go to something. You never know what's going to come out of it. Joe: I'm going to interrupt and say yes that's absolutely true. You know when I 1st started doing what I do here in Quiet Light I had to go to an event and I think the 1st one I went to was in New Orleans. I can't even remember it but it was a big event and I hated it. Because I didn't like; I'm a bit of an introvert. Doing this right now, talking, podcasts, it's great. It's easy. I'm a bit of an introvert but I was at an event I forget exactly where it was and I heard the name Mike Jackness and I said to myself I'm going to find Mike. And I went to be pre-party and I saw Mike sitting there on a couch. I sat down beside and said hello and now Mike and I are really good friends. I sold his business. We've done podcasts together. We've got a lot of relationships in terms of people we know together. And I think he's made an impact on my life and my business and I've hopefully made the same on his. And when you see people; you go to an event like this and you see people standing around in a circle talking to each other and you don't know who they are, your instant thought is oh they all know each other I don't want to step in there that's really awkward. The reality is that they don't know each other. They're just getting to know each other. And I've been in a situation where literally I'm standing around like that somebody walks up and just sort of shoulders their way and starts to nod their head up and down and says hello and we had all just met each other and he came in and met us as well. So it's a hard thing to do but I think in this e-commerce world, listening to podcasts like this is invaluable but the most important thing you can do is get out there and meet people face to face and shake their hand. And then you can connect with them directly about what they're doing in their business and what you're trying to do with yours; and in this case with you taking Amazon businesses beyond the US and into the other marketplaces in a strategic process and how to do that so that you're going to have a higher success rate. So anybody listening get out there and go to a Mastermind event, whatever it might be, Brand Accelerator Live is not going to be a large one; it's down in Fort Worth in September; what are the dates on it? Kevin: September 18th through 20th and then we also have a Mastermind for high-level sellers on the 21st and we still have a couple of slots available for those mastermind folks. But yeah I definitely recommend that you go to something. So to your point like sometimes you will have that feeling like oh gosh it's going to be hard connecting with people, I remember the 1st e-commerce event I went to and I walked into the opening reception and I go to the bar and kind of have that feeling like okay there's safety at the bar, the bartender is giving me the drink. Joe: Unless you're in Mexico or the Dominican Republic but yeah, okay. Kevin: Right exactly. So I turned around and I'm like okay not to go or I do have to like talk to someone. So there was this woman standing there and it was like hi I'm Kevin and then we just started talking and you know I still keep in contact with her to this day. And I started talking to some other people. And so just a random story here is that at this live event I got to know Scott Voelker and met him in another live event because there's that power in connection where you're meeting people live as opposed to even on the phone or messaging and Facebook groups or whatever case is and he was talking about how you wanted to do more to help people in the intermediate to advanced stage. And I like to think of the world as kind of like a puzzle with pieces that all have to come together that's why I do this international thing and then things to work in hotels and conventions. So I told them I think you should do a live event and I can help you with it because I had that experience. And I was thinking like he's going to say oh no [inaudible[00:37:19.2] whatever thank you graciously because he's a nice guy. But he actually said yes tell me more how would we do this. And so this has become an opportunity that's opened up doors for me because I talked to Scott. And I know all kinds of people, maybe it's not Scott Voelker that they're connected with someone who opened up some door connected them to a supplier, they found out some like I never knew about that service or that whatever and it opened up their mind to something else because they were having a conversation over drinks, breaking bread, or just talking or someone in between sessions at a live event because e-commerce sellers for the most part especially the ones that are doing it full time if they're at their house or whatever and they're just in front of a keyboard all day they want to connect with other people. Joe: Yeah. Kevin: Or if they're doing it as a; they have a full time job they are like I don't know anyone else that does this and so all of a sudden he's like surrounded by people that all do the same thing and most e-commerce sellers are not surrounded all day by other e-commerce sellers so it's like a treat being in the same room. Joe: And you'll be amazed when you connect with folks like that how you figure out after a time that there's a half a dozen people in my surrounding area and then you can have a mini sort of mastermind group where you just get together for drinks once a month or something like that. So I think really important number one thank you for your time and helping people figure out how to expand beyond Amazon.com because it is going to bring more value for their bank account and an eventual sale as well. It's going to bring more value. But for those folks that haven't done it get to a live event, meet people face to face, it will make a difference in your business and in your life in my opinion and experience. It's hard to do. I tell you it is hard to do. It's what I do now that I've got this drink in my hand? You turn around and you say hello to someone and just take your hand out. Kevin: Exactly. Joe: And you end up being amazed with value you didn't get in that situation. Again MaximizingEcommerce.com, BrandAcceleratorLive.com, Kevin you're a good man. I appreciate your time and I look forward to seeing you in September. Kevin: I'm excited for it. Thanks for having me. Links and Resources: Kevin's Website Kevin's Podcast Listener Promo from Kevin Brand Accelerator Live 2019

One of the mistakes people often make when starting their own e-commerce business is they try to make the business an extension of themselves. They don't build out enough within that extension and therefore don't build a real business. A real business that is going to be attractive to buyers. Some also make attempts to reject Amazon, feeling they can achieve success with Shopify, Walmart, and other E-commerce channels. Today we are talking with a true Amazon veteran and success story, getting to the truth behind building real e-commerce success, working to build a real and viable business, and why it pays to go to China. Kevin King is an e-commerce entrepreneur's advisement expert. He teaches to and works with seven to eight-figure companies and speaks at e-conferences all over the world – attending nearly twenty-six events in at least 10 countries in 2018 alone! He runs his own e-commerce site selling his Amazon products, and has developed and guided hundreds of products from inception to market. He's been in the Amazon Private Label space since 2015. He's here talking about the Amazon opportunity bubble and how he doesn't see it popping anytime soon. Episode Highlights: The skyrocket of the Amazon business model and how that model has changed. Kevin shares his tips for doing business right from the start and increasing chances for success. The different ways to approach the Amazon model. Kevin gives us a definition of Amazon Private Label. The number one crucial skill you need to succeed on Amazon. What you really need financially to start a real business. How to find out where the demand is on Amazon. Why being on top of your inventory is vital to your success and how often you should turn your inventory each year. What it really means to build a brand and if brands mean anything to potential buyers. Why Amazon is a great place to launch a product but not to build a brand. Why product choice is the backbone to business success. What to look at when choosing a product to sell. Selling cheap easy turnover items versus high ticket items. The most important thing to do to improve traffic on Amazon. Unless it garners at least 20% of your revenue, multichannel sales don't increase your chances of finding a buyer. The international factor and branching out to other marketplaces. Kevin's golden rules for moving a product. How many products are the right amount to have in your portfolio? Where the money is really made in the Amazon space and the importance of how and where to source products. Transcription: Mark: Okay Joe I want to start this off with a question for you. Back when you owned Puristat how long did it take before you realized this is going to be able to grow into something and how long did it take before you turn it into kind of like a real business that could be scaled? Joe: That's a great question. I wish I had a really good prepared answer for it. Mark: I got you completely unguarded with that. Joe: Yeah. I'm one of those guys that built a business without knowing I could actually sell it. And as you and a lot of folks that know my history I started out on doing radio and direct response and did a TV infomercial and then eventually took it 100% online. But early on in my entrepreneurial career, I did have a sit down with a good friend … a family friend that slapped me upside the head in terms of accounting and I did have my ducks in a row in that sense. And I always built what was a real business so that if I got hit by a bus one of my head people could take over, my wife could take over things of that nature. But it never actually occurred to me until I was emotionally tired that I could sell the business. And then I reached out to a guy named Mark Daoust back in … gosh, 2010 right? Mark: Way too long ago. I think one of the things … one of the problems I see and I've seen over the past 11 years with entrepreneurs is we make the business an extension of ourselves; an extension of our personality. And because of that sometimes we don't really build the business in a way that can be sold and we don't have intentionality of building something outside of ourselves. And I know you talked to Kevin King who had a lot of suggestions and tips as to how somebody should be building their business for that expansion and again for lack of a better term a real business. Joe: Kevin used the term real business probably 10 times in the first five minutes and he is such an honest straightforward tell it like it is kind of guy that he says you got to build a real business. Grow up build a real business. Don't be a … build a real business. And he just says it in a way that you just have to go okay he's right, I need to stop messing around, grow up, and build a real business that is going to be really attractive to buyers when I'm ready to sell. Kevin is one of the few guys that is out there teaching, helping, coaching entrepreneurs build ecommerce businesses with a focus on an eventual exit. He's got a four year plan in terms of … you know step 1, 2, 3, 4 in terms of year 1, 2, 3, 4 with an exit in mind not that you're going to exit but that you're in a position to exit in 48 months. Part of that is giving it enough time to mature and grow and gain value. And he's a believer as many folks in his position are that a majority of the revenue that an entrepreneur gets to put in their bank account comes upon an exit and that's a simple matter of math. We hear Scott Deetz talk about that a lot and he's an advocate of that as well. But I tell you there are … the gurus are a dime a dozen and Kevin has been around a long time. He walks the walk, he talks the talk, he's a guest podcast on lots of podcasts, AM PM Podcast co-host, and helps out a lot with Helium10. And now he is so sought after. He's being asked to go and present and speak around the country … around the world and he's being paid to do it. You and I have to … we have to say can we sponsor and by the way can we speak and we pay them to let us up on stage these people are actually paying Kevin to get up there and talk because the wisdom that he shares is so valuable. Mark: That's fantastic. I want to get to this, hear what he has to say. I was at a conference a few months ago and there's a speaker who said … and I'm going to keep this PG even though he wasn't PG but he said if you want to have a real business you have to do real business stuff. And it's one of those truisms that is just kind of basic but good to hear once in a while. So I'm interested to hear what Kevin has to say about it and for those listening, I think it would be a good idea to listen to some of the specifics that he gives here and just measure up against what you're doing right now. Are you doing these things? Have you been doing real business stuff within your business to actually build something that's real and external? Joe: Perfect let's go to it. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley with the Quiet Light Podcast and I have an amazing guest today. His name is Kevin King. Kevin, how are you today? Kevin: I'm doing good Joe. How are you doing? Joe: I'm good man. You're kind of a legend in this industry now. You're traveling all over the world speaking at events, getting paid to speak at events, helping 6, 7, 8 figure entrepreneurs build their Amazon businesses. That's kind of the intro, why don't you tell us who you are and what you're all about so the people will understand it directly from you? Kevin: Sure no problem. Yeah, I've been doing ecommerce since the 1990. So I go back about 20, 25 years or so since the days before there was even a Google. I've been selling ecommerce to my own websites. I started selling on Amazon on around the year 2000 or so and then I've been doing the FBA model which most people are familiar with now since 2015. I originally started out doing wholesaling, some arbitrage, and some other stuff on Amazon and still do that through another business. And then I'm also involved in a couple of different training things. So I teach advanced level sellers, 6, 7, 8 figure sellers in the Illuminati Mastermind which I'm mostly training. Like a 3 hour training [inaudible 00:05:54.2] these tactics and techniques for sellers and then we do a live event once a year. It's a pretty high level live event and then also I have a course called the Freedom Ticket which trains new people on how to sell on Amazon as well as how to have a 7 figure Amazon Business that I do myself and then I'm partners with a couple of other people and a couple of other Amazon businesses. And then I … like you said I speak at a lot of events all over the world for Amazon sellers and ecommerce. Joe: And why don't you tell us how many you went to so far this year? This is being recorded in late 2018. Kevin: Yeah in 2018 I'm at 26 events so far this year. Joe: And say how many different countries. Kevin: Oh man I haven't added that up. The number of countries would probably be at least 10. Joe: At least 10. Kevin: So I would actually … it's a … China, Hong Kong, let's see … several United States including Hawaii and it's not another country but Hawaii and then several and Germany, so Germany, London, Greece, Romania, Ukraine, man all over … all over the place. Joe: That's incredible. And you're attending and speaking at these as well right? Kevin: That's correct yeah. Some of them I'm just an attendee but over half of them, I'm actually speaking at. Joe: All right well let's help the people that are listening, those that have Amazon businesses and those that don't, those that want to get started. A lot of folks like you and me started off with our own websites and Google AdWords and content development and eventually morphed over to Amazon. I didn't, I sold my business before you were selling in Amazon but before I realized that Amazon was a tool I could sell on. I sold in 2010. I look back and think man I wish I knew a Kevin King back then. Kevin: Yeah the Amazon space is one of those that … it had a hot wave around 2012 or so. The guys over at Amazing.com kind of set this off where they turned it into a business model and started instead of getting rich in real estate let's get rich in selling on Amazon. And so they started doing courses and it took off and since then there's probably about 4 or 500 other people that came out with different courses. And to be frank, most of them suck. The guys at Amazing do a pretty good job and there's three or four others. I'd like to think that mine is one of the better ones but most of them are people that either isn't selling on Amazon or tried it and failed or they're just not very good. So you have to be very very careful out there. It's become a big industry that is … a lot of people realize they can make more money selling the show than they can selling the gold or whatever or that saying is you know. It's teaching people how to do it rather than doing it. But the opportunity … so as a result of that a lot of people say hey is this selling on Amazon saturated? Is it too late? Did I miss the boat? I say absolutely not. I think it's better than ever right now. The difference is it's no longer an easy game where when 2, 3, 4 years ago it's pretty easy to just go to Alibaba.com find a product slap your name and logo on it and sell it on Amazon and those days are pretty much gone. It's a real business now. So if you approach this as a real business and not a get rich quick scheme and not listen to a lot of these course guys that are saying you can quit your job tomorrow and sit on the beach drink margaritas and just check the app and watch the sales come in. But treat it like a real business and keep your job. Don't quit your job maybe for a year as long as you got money … unless you have a lot of money in the bank saved up that you can live on. But if you treat this like a real business that you can reinvest it there's no better business out there that has a better return right now. And Joe you know this, you guys broker a bunch of businesses so you see these numbers and you see the guys that do it wrong and the guys that do it right. And like I always say if you take $5,000 and you put that into the best mutual fund on Wall Street in about 3 years you'll have about 7500 bucks or so roughly on average. If you put $5,000 on an Amazon business and do it right that $5,000 in 3 years can pretty easily turn into about $52,000. So the ROI is tremendous but you got to do it right, you got to treat it like a business. And I always tell people if you're going to start in this business the thing that you need to do is … I say it's like a 4 year plan. Year one you're basically learning and you're earning. Year two … whether that's you taking a course from someone that you paid, you're watching some YouTube videos or whatever you may be doing, you have to be careful though if you're watching YouTube videos because some of that stuff is out of date or incorrect. So you're learning and you're earning. In the 2nd year, you're optimizing. So maybe you're adding additional products and additional variations. The 3rd year you're preparing to sell. You're getting all your ducks in a row. You're getting all your financials correct. Hopefully, you've been doing this all along but you're really optimizing your financials and in the 4th year you sell. The best opportunity in this business is not running the business; it's in selling the business. Because when you sell an Amazon business typically that's where you're going to take in over half of your profits. Sometimes as much as 70 or 80% of what you're going to walk away with from running the business. People would say why the heck would you sell a business if this is such a great opportunity Kevin why the heck would you even sell it? And I say well it's leverage. I mean there's no better … that's how you get ahead. You know in real estate that's how you get ahead and wherever it is leveraged. Even if you're making $200,000 a year off this business if you can walk away in one year with a million bucks let's say in your pocket, you can just turn around, pay off some bills, take a nice vacation, buy the wife a new car, whatever you want to do and then start over again. And I know a lot of people that are on their 3rd Amazon based business right now. I know a guy that sold his first one in a year for half a million. He sold his 2nd one for 7.5 million. Now it's the third one. I know another couple, a really nice husband and wife team that just recently sold one for 4 million, got a multiple of almost 4.2 and their next goal is 2021 to sell it for 10 … the next one for 10 million. So it's a great way to do that. Joe: [inaudible 00:11:38.6] them the skill set. You know the folks that I talk to they build these and then we sell them for them. Once they've got that skill set they can go back to the well. They can go back to the Amazon well and build another brand because they understand it. But let's throw some chips out there. You said you could turn 5,000 into 50 in 4 years. We've seen 5,000 turned into several million in 4 years. How much would you recommend to the newbies that are out there and what I want to do here is give some tips from you the expert. I get so much misinformation out there. I want you to talk about a few tips that newer folks should do so that it increases their success level. And then to those folks that are out there doing it now some of the things that you may be able to call from your travels and your experience that are new that are completely different than they were maybe even just 12 months ago. But how much money do you think somebody at a minimum should start off with and should they be focused on branding, wholesaling, arbitrage … what is your opinion on what they should do to get started and increase their chances of success so that they can have that big exit down the road? Kevin: Well I can say this 11 different ways to skin the Amazon cat. You can make money off affiliate market by doing wholesale, by doing retail, arbitrage, online arbitrage and there are several other ways. The best way, in my opinion, is private label. It has the most opportunity and the best margin. So if you're looking to maximize your return you should really look at the private label side. Joe: Let's define that if you would please? Kevin: Sure. Joe: Just for the new ones starting off. Kevin: The private label is where you're actually basically creating a brand … attempting to create a brand or you're actually taking products that already exist, maybe modifying them slightly and putting your name on it. It's kind of like if you go to the supermarket and you look at that ketchup, there's Heinz ketchup which everybody knows that do all the advertising and right next to it is the local store brand, Safeway, Kroger, whatever it may be brand of ketchup which often comes off the same factory. And it's often the exact same materials they just has a different name on it usually at a slightly lower price. Joe: Right. Kevin: So that's private label. So the idea behind the private label is to go onto Amazon use a lot of these tools, these 3rd party software tools, find the opportunities, and that could be either based on keywords or it could be based on complaints and customer reviews and you can fix the problem and you can come in and compete. The Amazon business itself is the number one most crucial skill you need to have is mass. This business is all about numbers and so if you're not a numbers person you need someone on your team that is a numbers person. It's not something where you get emotional and hey I built a better mousetrap or I've made a new invention. I mean there are opportunities there if you have a new invention or you have a new idea but there has to be the demand. And the beauty about Amazon and selling on Amazon is it's a huge laboratory. I mean with 550 million or so products on there most of them with a review someone with thousands of reviews. It's a great laboratory. I mean companies 10, 15 years ago used to have to do focused group marketing and all kinds of expensive research just to get this kind of feedback and it's publicly freely available right now to anybody that wants it. So you can go in there and if you know how to mine this data you can find major opportunities. And so you want to look … it's all about math. So back on how much should you start with you know that depends. I recommend you have at least 5 to $10,000. I mean you hear stories of people start with 100 bucks or 500 bucks but usually they may have started with 100 bucks but what they don't tell you is that a week later they borrowed 50,000 from their rich uncle. They have these rags to riches story where they get terms from their supplier, there's something else to it. You can't start with it, I mean you could start arbitrage with a 100 bucks if you're going to grow a real business you need money. You can start a business with a thousand or a hundred … hundred to a thousand but it's going to be a really slow build. So the more you have the faster you can go. So what I always say is if you going to start this business how much do you need? You need 2 ½ times your initial inventory investment. So if your first round of products is going to cost you let's say $4,000 to have made. So you're buying 1,000 units of something. That means you can basically spend about $4 per unit landed cost. Landed cost means the cost to manufacture the item whether that's in the United States or in China plus the cost to ship it and if you're importing it all the taxes and shipping cost that's basically landed in the Amazon warehouse. So you need 2 ½ times that. That means you need about $10,000 to start the business. If you don't have $10,000 you need to find a different type of product to sell. If you only have 5,000 good, do the math and you have to find some things you can buy for about $2,000; your initial inventory. Joe: So if you're buying 1000 pieces at 4,000 bucks what's the other 6,000 for? Kevin: The other 6,000 is because in this business it's a very cash intensive business. So if you're successful you're most likely going to have to be buying your 2nd round of inventory before you sold your 1st and probably before you've even paid for your 1st in full. So you're going to need … the worst thing you can do on Amazon is to run out of stocks. If you run out of stocks on Amazon for more than a few days you're basically starting over. That's the death. Now 90% of people that start selling on Amazon fail or they take a course either they don't launch or they fail because they don't do the math right. They don't plan it properly. They don't pick products that are within their budget that they can maintain, that they can sustain. And in the other … you know in this case of the 4,000 so you might need another 4,000 to place your 2nd order and then the other 2,000 is for advertising cost. You might need some software, some other miscellaneous things. That's the bare minimum. In my opinion, it's better to have a better cushion than that but that would be the bare minimum. And then it's all about math. It's all about looking at keyword demand. It's not trying to invent something new, that's kick starter or that's … you know there are other business models for if you have something that's brand new that you want to do. But the best opportunity is to look at the demand on Amazon. Use these keyword tools. See what people are searching for, what they're buying, what they're complaining about, and go in and either make a slightly different product of that or fix the problem that people are complaining about and then come out with something. And so that that's why I say it's all math. It's all about the financial side which most people are not good at and the forecasting and it's all about the keyword and the demand side. And there are some great tools out there … 3rd party tools that have come a long way in the last 3 years that can really help you with it. But most people that even are paying for these tools … you know they're paying 100 bucks for a tool like Helium 10 for example that's one of the better tools out there. A lot of people don't even know how to use the tools. It's kind of like they have a nice race car with all these gizmos and buttons and all these kinds of things that they can do to really race down the track at 200 miles per hour but they're just putting along at 40 miles an hour. So master these tools and learn these tools and you can do really well. Joe: Okay and that's the 1st year really the mastery of those types of tools and things of that nature. Kevin: Correct. Joe: Got you and we say a lot of the same things. I put myself on mute because I'm struggling because we're doing … one of the things I'm always saying is that and I'm actually doing a presentation next week and its, if you want to increase the value of your business in the year before you sell, don't run out of inventory. You know that it's going to kill maybe certain things in terms of momentum on Amazon. I know that when you run out of inventory it reduces your revenue and your profit and that times your multiple is going to be the loss on your business value. I just said a lot. It probably doesn't make sense to most but just don't run out of inventory. Do what you can; beg, borrow, steal, hillock, line of credit, credit cards, whatever it takes if you've got a good solid business. As far as the brand sell or the private label do you recommend and do you prefer seeing people picking a category, let's say they're going to … okay, I'm going to invent a new … I'm not going to invent, I'm going to build a better mousetrap and it's a swimming pool cover and then all of the additional products evolve around swimming pools or do you think you find that great product there and then you do this search for the next great product and it may not be related at all? Kevin: I think there are two different ways to do that. I mean one is if building a brand is difficult, building a brand it's not just sticking your name and your label on something. A lot of people think that's a brand. They think that if I create a logo and stick my name on my pool cover I, therefore, have a brand and I have a bunch of pool and that's not true. Brand is an identity. It's something that people relate to. It's like … you know think of Apple, people are lining up to get the new iPhone. It's a certain cool you know Apple came out with that thing differently you know that it's almost like a … it's hard to build a brand and I don't think Amazon is the place to build a brand in my opinion. I think Amazon is a great launching … if building a brand is your strategy that's awesome and Amazon can be a great place to launch because the marketplace is already there. The view about Amazon is they already have a huge audience and just all these cool tools that you can use to figure out how to reach them. If you go out and you build your own Shopify site or your own ecommerce store you've got to figure out how they bring the traffic there. You've got to start doing Facebook ads, email list, PR, whatever it may be to bring the traffic there versus on Amazon you don't have to do that it's already coming. You'll only use outside traffic … if you have to use outside traffic to drive sales on Amazon you're doing something wrong. In my opinion, the only time you should use outside traffic to drive sales on Amazon is when you're doing a launch. If you're launching a new product and you need it to kind of influence the algorithm, that makes perfect sense and you should do that. But if you're heavily weighted on driving outside traffic from Facebook and you're sending it to Amazon just to make sales on Amazon then you shouldn't be doing it. You should have sent that to your own store because when you send someone from Facebook to Amazon they're not … they don't become your customer. They're not identifying with your brand, they're identifying with the Amazon brand. They're buying because it's Amazon, they get it in a day or two. They trust Amazon. They know that it's easy to return blah blah blah. In most cases, they don't really care about your brand. So if you're trying to build a brand you need to drive it to your own store. But using Amazon as a launch pad because it has a built in traffic and then you could use the data you get from Amazon you can refine your product get it fixed get that good feedback and then take that data from Amazon even as a 3rd party seller you can create what's called [inaudible 00:21:36.9] and all kinds of stuff on Facebook and then go out and build a brand that would identify more with you. And I think the best opportunity to build brands using Amazon is on consumables … on people … maybe it's dog treats or supplements or something like that where people will come in over and over and over. But if you're selling pool covers … building a brand is difficult so what I tell people is still trying to really build a brand initially that may come and evolve into that is more build … go after an avatar. So rather than just trying to be the guy doing all the pool supplies, to give yourself the best opportunity on Amazon so you're not stuck in a niche. I mean if you go after the pool supplies and you're doing pool covers and pool chemicals and pool everything else you're kind of stuck there. You're like okay what else can I find in a pool category versus if you go after an avatar and you pick a person … let's say it's a runner. I'm going to go after an athlete, people who love to run outdoors, then you can actually go across multiple categories and you can do something like something in electronics category that's a fitness tracker or a band to hold your iPhone on your arm or whatever and you could do socks and you could do water bottles. You can get across over all these different categories and you open yourself up to more opportunity. Or you can just … you know some people they don't care; it's just the shotgun approach. It's like I just find opportunities I don't care it's just cash flow. Typically if you have a brand it depends on the buyer. Some buyers actually really value that and they'll pay a higher multiple for that if you're planning on selling. Others don't care they just want the cash flow. So it depends and so when you're 1st starting you might just … I don't know that you need to think about that because it's going to evolve. Most people their 1st or 2nd product doesn't succeed, it's more of a learn … some people get lucky and it does but you can ask most big sellers that are doing 7, 8, 9 figures a year and they'll say yeah my 1st one it just I don't sell it anymore it didn't work. So I would get too stuck at that in the beginning. I would just keep going and then it's going to come to you. You're going to start seeing the opportunities and you'll be able to drive off. Joe: I got you, great information. It totally makes sense, the avatar and being able to say okay I'll do a running … people that are running. And it could be men, women, it could be kids. Again the products breath and depth is really really broad and deep as opposed to limiting to grilling products or swimming pool products. Kevin: Not to say you can't do that, I mean you can do that but I think the opportunity is better if you go towards an avatar rather than just a niche. Joe: Yup, got it. I love it. Let's talk about for those that are listening to this podcast Kevin obviously they can tell you know what you're talking about. They probably already know your name and have seen your presentations. What things are you doing and are your 7 and 8 figure friends doing that is new and different and must be done to help take things to the next level? What kind of tidbits can you share there? Kevin: Well the number one thing is to me the thing I've learned in this business is it's not about profit; it's about ROI if you're trying to grow a business. When I 1st started I was looking at products that would have nice profit margins. You hear people sometimes on Facebook say I've got 40, 50, 60% profit margins and those cases do exist rarely but I used to say bullshit on most of those people. The average in a private label business is between about 20 and 30% if you're doing things right. Joe: Let's call that seller's discretionary earnings for everybody listening that's … it's you run a net profit and you run a profit loss in Quick Books you get net profit on the bottom then we're going to add back those owner benefits like your salary like your meals and entertainment like your travel and things that nature that are not business related. So your net income plus your add backs equals your seller's discretionary earnings that's what we're talking about. Kevin: Now once you do your add backs that could go a little bit higher. I'm talking about just on the books you know when you when you are factoring it all your cost is about 20 to 30% on private label. On wholesale, it's closer to the 10 to 15% range. Joe: Right. Kevin: And wholesale businesses are a little bit harder to sell because you don't have really a brand. You're just selling other people's products. You don't have anything proprietary so they're a little bit harder to sell that's why I also said private labels is one of the better ones. So let's say it's in that 20 to 30% that's average, some people are higher than that some people are lower. But if you're in that 20 or 30% net you're doing okay for the most part. But what I used to do is when I was … it's … this business is all about choosing products. The product is the backbone of it. That's where it has a stone in a walk for a lot of people is they're afraid to pull the trigger because they're like I only have 5 grand or 10 grand to start, did I pick the right product. And sometimes they get paralysis by analysis and they just don't move forward. But when you're choosing a product I used to look at the profit margins. I'd find a crate maker for example as one of my old products and you know it had about a 40% margin from what I could buy it from landed and from what I was selling it from and I was like okay this is great but the problem was I was ordering … I ordered 1,000 of them and it took me about 6 months to sell those 1,000. And then I ordered another 1,000 and it took me about 5 months to sell the next thousand. So that's a turnover a little over 2 times per year. So I had a great profit on it but it was tying up my cash tying up my money and so ROI to me is the most important by far number in this business as you want to look at when you're sourcing products is what kind of return on investment. And that's basically how fast can you get your money back. And so I looked for ROI's of at least 150% or greater on everything I do now. And that basically means how many times … if I have and maybe a lower profit margin. Instead of the 40% profit margin, I may have a 25% profit margin. But if I have 150% ROI I'm working and turning that money and that inventory much much faster. And I can grow a lot quicker without having additional outside capital, without having to go into my RA or whatever it may be, or take expensive loans that are out there and you can grow your business faster. So by picking high ROI products, you have a greater chance to success. For example, I recommend you at least turn your inventory 4 times a year in an Amazon business. So it's basically every 3 months you need to be turning your inventory. Ideally 6 to 8. Some people you know a supplements business are at 12 or more. Just by example Walmart stores, their average inventory turnover is 8.3. So 8.3 times per year they're selling through their entire inventory. That's a critical number when choosing products and when choosing things to do in my opinion. So one of the bigger opportunities right now in the space is in the high ticket expensive items because all these courses out there they teach you find something if it fits in a shoe box it's lightweight weighs less, it's cost less than $20, it's easy to source you can buy in for a buck or 2 in China and sell them for 20 bucks on Amazon and the problem is that everybody is there. That's where everybody goes, that's where all the courses … everybody finds the same products, the same weighted blankets, the same barbecue gloves, the same stuff and only a few of those people succeed. And so if you go outside the box and look at the more expensive stuff maybe you don't have to buy a thousand units of them, you only have to buy some things that sell 5 per day but they're selling for $300 versus things that sell 50 per day and they're selling it at $20. You could make a lot more money on these more expensive things. And some people shy away from that because sometimes it's a little bit more of an investment to get into it. But there's great great opportunity there. And the other problem right now is what's happened with all the low end stuff is the Chinese hackers … most of them are Chinese, there are some that are Russian and Eastern European but the vast majority are Chinese and it's crazy what's happening out there. There are leaks inside of Amazon where these guys over in China can get the actual data straight from Amazon, the actual conversion data, the actual … they're doing all kinds of crazy stuff; hardcore competition and its part of their culture to do this. And most people don't … aren't aware of what's happening and your chances of competing on that lower end are getting harder and harder and harder because of all this. Joe: So you recommend to start off that way or you're thinking in terms of larger people … larger account owners to move into that category where its a larger ticket item and a high ROI? Kevin: Both. Joe: Both? Kevin: Yeah, both. Joe: Okay, you mentioned that if you're sending traffic to your Amazon store from Facebook you're doing something wrong on your Amazon … inside your Amazon seller account. What tools can be done what … and maybe it's all basics, Kevin, maybe this isn't anything new but what are the most important things to do to make sure you're improving your traffic on Amazon as much as possible or is it a combination of a number of different things? Kevin: I mean if you're a brand that already exists up there Amazon should just be a channel for you. You already have your own store. You're already selling in retail Amazon is just a channel so that's a little bit different approach. But if Amazon … if you're starting this business and Amazon is your primary focus at the beginning which is what most people are doing now that they're doing FBA business, Amazon is their primary focus in the beginning and that's great and people always say you shouldn't be an Amazon only business. You should be off Amazon and I agree with that but … and you could probably tell me more about this but my experience Joe in the valuations people always say well I don't want to just sell on Amazon. What if Amazon shuts my account down? Amazon likes to shoot 1st and ask questions later and then I'm screwed. I need to be selling on Walmart. I need to be selling on Jet. I need to have my own Shopify site. But most people, the vast majority of people that's a very small percentage of their sales and from my experience, unless it's 20 or 30% between … you know most people say about 30 % maybe you have a better number of your sales it doesn't really add to your valuation. If you got a sale or a buyer coming in if you got 2% of your sales in Walmart or [inaudible 00:30:59.9] if you get shut down on Amazon so what you're still screwed you got to fire everybody. And so most people it's hard to make that adjustment so my advice is if you're going to be starting on Amazon take advantage of the platform. There's never been a better opportunity. It's one of the best business opportunities in the last 100 years of business to start selling on Amazon. And like I said earlier if you're trying to build a brand then use that data and there are ways to do that to then start going off Amazon especially if you're on the consumables side. But I think you're better off taking that same energy that you're trying to put into building a Shopify site or trying to launch on Walmart to go expand to Canada, go expand to Europe, or go expand to Japan. You're much better off. You're going to get a better valuation. Canada is like 5% of my sales compared to the US but that's 2 ½ times what my sales in Walmart are and it's easy. It's same format. I already know how to do it. It's natural and most people are afraid to do that. They're afraid of other countries or they're afraid of other tax systems or they're … whatever. And its ego based. I want to be saying I sold on Walmart or I had my own site … it's bad. Joe: Yeah a lot of the folks that you and I know that are buying up Amazon businesses; one of the 1st things they do is take them international. They buy them and take them overseas. Let's talk about that for a minute- Kevin: But a lot of people don't do that because it's … you're basically doubling your investment. Let's say you want to go to Europe- Joe: They don't have the capital. Kevin: Most people in this business are cash strapped and that's where the opportunity right now is it's like the people that you just said that you know and that I know that are buying these, they're coming in with money and they see the opportunity and they come into play. And at first most of these entrepreneurs they use their life savings or … and then some to try to build this and they're cash strapped so they can't … I mean to go over to Europe you're basically okay now I got to buy all new inventory and float it and they can't do it. Joe: Yeah the people that are buying businesses like this that are coming into the entrepreneurial world for the 1st time say it's great why in the world are they selling? And I always have to ask that question on what they need to understand and what they're learning by going through the process is that most of these businesses whether it's a Shopify store or an Amazon business even those that I've sold in the past that are a combination of both and have a utility patent. It's still bootstrapped and most of the money being made is going back into inventory to keep up with growth. And they're not able to pull a whole lot out and so they're bootstrapping. And they don't expand overseas because they don't have any more places to dip into to pull more money. So somebody coming in from the outside that has that extra working capital and a mindset to take it beyond the 4 hour workweek and run it as you said a dozen times already as a real business and grow it into the different countries and take it beyond a one channel platform and beyond Amazon. You can take it to different countries and it's going to increase your value; it is when you could take it beyond into building that brand off of Amazon into different platform it builds your value even more. But you're got to be challenged. You got to look at that and say okay what … how long am I going to be in this game and how much am I going to invest in terms of time, energy, resources, risk into building a Shopify store and generating traffic to it. If you're going to sell in 6 months for those that are listening and you hear Kevin's advice you know multichannel he's right but every story is different and unique. You don't want to build a Shopify store and start driving traffic to it and investing a lot of money in breaking even or losing for 3 years down the road if you're going to sell in 6 months. My advice is to do what you do and do it really well. Keep selling on Amazon and make that business strong and have some built in path to grow. Kevin: Another one too besides Europe I mean like … or expanding to other market … I mean Amazon's into what 13 marketplaces now? But besides expanding to other marketplaces the other opportunity that's out there is … it goes again back again that gets cash strapped is retail. I mean retail is not dead. I mean there are all these stories about retail is dead and tears is going out of business and Radio Shack went out of business and blah, blah, blah. They didn't adapt. Amazon is going into retail. They've bought whole foods. They're opening retail Amazon Go's. They're opening these 4 star stores out. They're going … retail is not dead. It's still 90% of all sales out there and it's going to probably remain at above 80% for the next several decades. I mean ecommerce is gaining on … it's going to take a bigger share but so going into retail using Amazon as a proven ground is a great way to get into retail too. Joe: How do you make that leap though in Amazon? How do you go okay I'm going to go into retail? Is there a Helium 10 for retail? Kevin: No there's not a Helium 10 for retail, it's a whole different animal. You're just saying about the opportunities outside of Amazon is I agree going to Amazon … other Amazon Marketplace is first should be your top priority if you can. But going into retail I know several people that have started on Amazon and now they're crushing it in retail. But that's … again that's another cash flow thing you know you've got to … it's a whole different animal. There's people that teach … like Karen Waksman stuff that teaches actually people how to go from Amazon to retail and how to get into retail and how to use your Amazon reviews and sales and demographics. And you have this data like look you know I have a lot of people in New York or these areas and you have 27 Target stores right here you know you should be tearing my products. There's a lot you can do there but it's it takes again it's another financial thing. You got to wait 60 days or more to get paid or you got to use factoring to factor invoices and brief purchase orders and so it's a whole different animal but there's great opportunity there too. Joe: But it's also as you're saying it's more cash but it's also math figuring that out and pulling that data out of Amazon. A lot of people have trouble just pulling the data out. Kevin: Yeah they can't that's why I said in the beginning, this is math. If you're not good at math or data analysis you need someone on your team that is. This business is not about … I see so many people go like I improved the product, I made it better, I know my product is good people should just buy it. If the demand is not there, if the data doesn't work, the analyst … there's too much competition you can't … you don't have the margins you've got to bail. To me, people get too emotionally tied to products and then it becomes their little baby and they don't want to abandon their child. Sometimes you've got to kick the kid out of the house. So many people won't do that. I have a rule that after 6 months … I get a product 6 months that I launch. When I launch a new product under my account if within 6 months it's not throwing off at least $2,000 a month in profit, I drop the product because I can deploy that capital in a better way. And so I have … you know some people their business models add, add, add products they got hundreds or thousands of products in their portfolio, mine is not that. I have about 15 to 20 and I do 7 figures so it's manageable. And I kick out once that I replace them with something that can give me a better … it's like stocks you know. I treat products like stocks. And I look at them like stocks, where can I get the best return? And get rid of the low performing ones and replace them, deploy that money into getting something that's higher return. Joe: Let's talk about that just for a minute. We're running a little short on time but I want to touch on new products and staying relevant. And it's going to different for each one. But we're talking now about again the people that are buying the Amazon businesses and one of the great things they can do if they've got capital is to expand to the other countries. What about launching new products is there any methodology to how often you should launch a new product? Or should you just adopt what you've talked about which is it needs to kick off this amount of profit or I get rid of it? And how many can you manage and the folks that you know that are doing … are they doing 10, 15, 20; what are they doing? Kevin: It depends on your … I know people that have 800 products doing 9 figures a year and I know people … typically the people that are doing 9 figures a year have a lot of products. The people that are doing 6 and 7 figures typically … I mean some of them have a lot of products some of them has 50, 60, 70 products. That seems to be kind of a ballpark range. For these guys there in the million dollar figures, they typically are in the probably at least 40, 50 products and then some thousands of products. But as far as launching new products it's all based on the more products you can launch the better you can grow, its cash flow and its opportunities. I see opportunities all the time when I'm doing keyword research and product research and I can't act on it I just don't have the money or I don't have the resources. I'm a small team you know. Some people have 20 people and they could deploy faster. They're sitting in their underwear in their house and it's just them and a couple of VA's. So you're limited by that as well. So it depends on your strategy and your resources how fast you could deploy but as you see opportunities and they still exist out there and there are still new ones coming up every day is taking advantage of those depends on your cash and your team size. And the more of them you can take advantage of the faster you could grow and the more you could sell for. But the money in this business too, one of the important point I want to make is I truly believe that money is made in the sourcing, not on the selling. A lot of people always go what can I sell the product for? It's not what you can sell it for it's what you can source it for. Because you have more price … you're more immune to price competition that way. If everybody is going to Alibaba or global sources or online Google and stuff and just by example you know I just went to China. I went to the Canton fair and there are some socks that a friend of mine sold last year and sold like six … $700,000 for these socks Christmas time and they were paying something like 2 bucks a pair for these socks. Well I found those exact same socks by just going to the Canton fair at 57 cents. You're not going to find that online so most people that are out there doing Amazon they're sourcing online. They're using Alibaba, they're using global sources, my saying is get on a freaking plane and go to China. Because going in face to face you can … it's a big deal in their culture and you could find a lot of stuff that just doesn't exist. I found one supplier of these like Christmas bags that I was like okay great you have a lot of bags I might want to sell these next year as a seasonal item. I said can I go to your website? He said no I don't have a website, oh if you have a catalog … no, I don't have a catalog. I said so how do I order from you? He said take pictures. He had 10,000 different types of bags. Take a picture of what you want here and I'll give you a price, that and the prices were ridiculously low from what I could find on Alibaba. Joe: Sounds like an awful and wonderful- Kevin: So I'm like this is the best opportunity ever because nobody else is going to find this guy. His quality is good, the prices are ridiculous. So that's what I mean the money is made in the sourcing. So if someone else … if I buy a box of socks for example if someone else … you know if I'm buying them at 57 cents and someone else comes in and I'm selling mine say for 10 bucks and all of a sudden someone comes in and starts selling them for 5 bucks. Well, I'm like shoot if I got to go to 4.99 to compete and I'm paying 2 bucks there what my margin maybe I'm going in the hole even after the Amazon fees and everything. Because typically it's about a 3rd a 3rd a 3rd … I mean just as a … if you're doing math, get math, ballpark math Amazon typically takes about a 3rd of the selling price, about a 3rd of the selling price is your cost of goods sold and other expenses, and about 3rd is your profit. So I don't [inaudible 00:41:52.6] 5 bucks there went all my profit but if I'm at 57 cents I can still compete. So that's what I mean the money is in the sourcing and so don't be afraid to get on a plane and go to one of these big fairs in China. Go visit factories that can make a huge difference. And people that are selling, you know the biggest thing that they're already successful the number one thing you can do is if you're sourcing from China especially is get on a plane and go meet your factory. Go eat strange bugs and weird stuff and monkey hearts and whatever the hell else they eat crazy stuff over there and get drunk with the supplier and watch what happens to your pricing. Watch what happens to your terms. All of a sudden 30% down 70% on delivery all of a sudden maybe you get a 60 day terms or you get some other things that can make a huge difference in your business and the pricing is lower. Now you're their buddy you get priority on the production line when it's Christmas time or before Chinese New Year your stuff goes out first. It's amazing what you can do on the sourcing side. Joe: Wow Kevin that's incredible stuff, a lot of tidbits there. Incredible; really, thank you. I understand why you're traveling all over the world speaking and presenting here. If people want to reach out to you and find you how do they go about doing that? Kevin: Yeah sure I mean the probably easiest way is to go to AMZmarketer.com That's A – M – Zed Marketer.com that just redirects to my Facebook page where you can … I don't sell you anything there. It's just where you can listen to all the different podcasts I've been on; a lot of free content. You might get some ideas or learn something. Or if you're already selling at IlluminatiMastermind.com or if you're new to the business and I always recommend this to people … if you're new to the business or even if you've been selling for a while go to FreedomTicket.com there's a webinar there. It's about a two hour webinar it's … you could choose a date on auto replay. It's not live right now but just watch that. You don't have to buy the course if you don't want to but just watch the first hour of that webinar and I think you'll walk away from that. It's not a sales pitch in the first hour. It's a lot of hard core data on how to choose the keywords, how to do things right in this business and just … it's hard core training and just watch that and that might help you understand some stuff. Joe: That sounds great. I hope a lot of people will do that. Those people that are currently running their Amazon businesses and plan to exit someday and the people that are buying we want them to be successful and grow their businesses and come back and sell them someday so that's awesome. Thanks so much, Kevin. I appreciate your time. I look forward to seeing you at the next event. Kevin: Cool, I appreciate it. Thanks. Links and Resources: AMZMarketer.comIlluminatiMastermind.comFreedomTicket.com  

Joining us today is John Sterling. John's been in a number of markets and was previously with Keller Williams and most recently was in San Francisco California and is currently in Colorado. John's background is fairly extensive in real estate. John is known for his work in Europe and London as well as working with multiple team leaders and market centers and helping them attract agents. John talks at length about his challenges in real estate and really not really getting EXP at first. John I'll give you his insight in terms of why he ultimately moved from Keller Williams to EXP and he hasn't regretted it and never looked back. Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly. Why EXP is growing fast Why Successful independent brokerages partnering with EXP Keep your Brand, grow your income with EXP Big benefits of being at EXP Earning publicly held stock. EXP listed on Nasdaq EXP innovating and game changing technology made simple   Stay tuned for Part 2   Transcription Kevin: Welcome back to another episode of the EXP explained podcast. I'm joined today by special guest John Sterling. John's been in a number of markets. He was previously with Keller Williams and most recently was in San Francisco California and is currently in Colorado. John's background is fairly extensive in real estate. He and I met years and years ago when I was a team leader at Keller Williams and he was doing some leadership expansion and attraction of agents. Certainly if you're listening to this and you're from Keller Williams you're more than likely will know John from his work in Europe and London as well as working with multiple team leaders and market centers and helping them attract agents. John talks at length in my interview about his challenges in real estate and really not really getting EXP at first. So if you're a little bit skeptical and you want to hear from somebody who was right there where you were dug into it didn't pay attention to the rumors and misinformation in the market and did quite a bit of due diligence over about 15 months. John I'll give you his insight in terms of why he ultimately moved from Keller Williams to EXP and he hasn't regretted it and never looked back. Stay tuned for my interview with John Sterling. Kevin: Welcome to the show John. John: Hey thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Kevin: I'm looking forward to it. We are reunited again and I'm sure we'll get into a lot of that on the conversation today but before we do for people listen to the podcast that maybe you aren't familiar with your background and history and real estate and all that you've done. What did you take a couple minutes and just give a little bit of your highlights in terms of some of the stuff you've done. Because I've known you a long time and I know you've accomplished a lot. John: Oh well thank you. Yeah I'll keep it short and sweet. So I started my real estate career in Chicago back in 2002 it was with a traditional firm then they had a great training program. So I got up and running very quickly. There were some changes there so I went off and started my own brokerage after about two years and then eventually merged that with Keller Williams back in 2004. My time at Keller Williams was mostly spent opening up new offices and markets where we didn't have them. And most of that work was before the financial crash and after the crash I was the guy who would go fix these struggling offices. So it involved a lot of moving. So I got to go all over the US and then even opened up our London office. So I was in the UK for two years. Packed my flat on Brexit vote day and came back to the U.S. and had been engaged in real estate and just sales in San Francisco and Denver ever since. Kevin: Fantastic. And you're very modest. I mean I first ran into you I probably was about two thousand five or six when I was in St. Lewis with Keller Williams And you were part of the group that was essentially acquiring market centers and expanding and you guys were rocking and rolling and obviously lots changed for everybody after the market shifted. I was excited and it was a long very detailed due diligence process before you moved over to EXP you and I had conversations over I don't know probably 15 months or so. And I think for people listening because the whole genesis for this podcast is to allow people you know it doesn't have to just be a Keller Williams but people that run their real estate business like a business and are seeing all of these agents like you were changing brokerages and coming over to EXP. I remember like you like everybody else had healthy skepticism. You wanted to understand it you were from the outside you were part of a gigantic franchise system and there was a lot of misinformation and noise out there in the marketplace. What is it that you learned that really caused you to start to shift your mindset and say I need to dig into this further. John: That's a good question. As you mentioned you know it was a long process for me it wasn't an overnight type of thing and I'd been paying attention to EXP for a long time. In fact I remember when Glenn the CEO was with Keller Williams back in the late 2000s and he left the start yet. And it was you know I just thought it was an interesting move and I was doing some unique things in the business but didn't really give it much thought. I was happy. Keller Williams still think they're an amazing organization. So I don't have any you know any issues with Keller Williams. It seemed like a better opportunity and fit for the future that I want to create and kind of where the business is headed so the things that got my attention over the past few months and ultimately led me to making the move is that you know I had ignored EXP for a long time as you mentioned a lot of people do this. And the people I've talked to who are in the process of joining you know people who are my friends who never would have given it a second glance if it wasn't me calling. You know it was or someone else. The gist of it was there is a lot like you said misinformation or half truth is I'd like to explain it which is understandable. You know it's like EXP has come out of nowhere. I have never seen growth like this in the real estate business and I was with Katie when I early days when it was growing like crazy. But even they didn't see growth. This is great. So there's just a lot of fear from the incumbents that they're going to get squashed because if he keeps up this pace then they're going to have some serious problems. Kevin: So it is interesting I want to touch on one point because that is something that you know you hear the comments of well they can't keep up growth at this pace or I can't believe they're growing that fast or there's no way they could be growing that fast. And I'm going to touch on something in the franchise system you know there's very well Gene Frederic knows it well I know well we'll come out of the same franchise system when somebody goes to expand a franchise system, this is for listeners to understand and why EXP can sand grow so much quicker. I'm going to contrast the two let's say that John and I are in the franchise system and we decide we're going to open up an office in Palo Alto California and we get a conversation going with a great great huge player hugely influential big producer and the producer says hey John and Kevin I'm ready to join. I want to do something with you. How do we get started in Palo Alto. And that starts the clock in the process right. And they have to go through the approval process and there's a whole bunch of steps involved in the point that I'm making here is from that conversation assuming you get some sort of a green light go I'm willing to do it. There are steps like getting an investor getting it approved getting the franchise awarded in the net net on it is on average it's 14 to 18 months before mega agent key influencer walks in the door of an office or can announce that they're part of that Palo Alto location hypothetically. Now when John and Kevin have a conversation with that same agent in Palo Alto. And assuming they're excited about the EXP and they due to due diligence. We're having them change brokerages in as fast as 10 days. I mean you listen to Brent Gove's interview. He made the decision in 10 days or less with one hundred and fifty million dollar team. It's unheard of. In the franchise systems. Now the follow on to that is when like we had in San Diego we had Daniel beer Carl Wessel and Mary Maloney and all of the others joined in it like a really short 10 day period EXP because they're influential has tons and tons of agents joined after it. So for somebody and I want to get your perspective on this from the outside we you're seeing these mega numbers of agents right. You know a thousand plus fifteen hundred plus agents a month and you are. In the franchise mindset or a bricks and mortar mindset where you're used to being in a physical location. Many many people. And this is why I think that they talk about this. Not being sustainable. Look at it and go. There's no way they're going that fast. We never did. We can't. How can they. And I think that that's the driver is John and I can go out and have hundreds if not thousands of conversations as well as every other agent that EXP. And if somebody says go. It's like when you say go it wasn't very long before you were alive and over at EXP. You actually were waiting for some things. To occur in your business world. But from the process where you're like OK good. I'm ready to go. It was fairly quick. It wasn't like the franchise world. John: Yes. All of that's true. Interestingly enough probably the most fascinating part to me is the large number of independent brokerages so they're not affiliated with any franchise or big regional company. You know he could be one person or a few dozen agents. You know it's typically the size of these things of those types of organizations that are going to need EXP. That was eye opener for me too because it's a fairly common thing in our business for people to get a little experience and then decide they'd like to be their own boss. They want to be their own broker so they leave the company that they started with they got some training or whatever else they're no longer working under someone else's brand they start their own. So it happens all the time. So the fascinating part is how many people have gone through that process achieve their independence so they have their own business with their own branding and their boss their names above the door. I can tell everyone in our neighborhood that they own the company and they're still coming to EXP. So they are profitable businesses that are doing well. They're helping businesses that are growing. Everybody's happy. And even with all that they're still choosing to partner with EXP. So they just see that there is more value with EXP you know from a small item I'd have to pay every year through their split the system was just good for agents at any level. But it's the big winners are the ones who were showing up with teams which are essentially you know they could be standalone brokerages but these big agent teams are like you mentioned they're moving very fast. Then you have the small brokerages who are looking for some more leverage because if you're a brokerage that has 20 or 30 agents you're probably still selling right. It's probably not making enough from the agents splits in order to support yourself. You're probably still selling yourself. So that's just a lot of work. Like you have to manage all these people and you have to do your own business well with the EXP you get to leverage a lot of the stuff that's already built in for very low costs. You can send your agents the training or bird virtual campus any time you are reading online. You can then go hire more people because you don't have to babysit them all day like there's no 30 or 40 training events we have every week. I don't think you can just sit down in front of the computer and say OK here are the training you need to go to go to these and come to me with questions. It's much more leverage and just a much better way to scale. So that was an interesting thing that I discovered just as I paid attention to all the people who kept showing up. Kevin: So absolutely and one of the things just to echo what you're saying and this is happening all the time in fact there's one by the time this goes live that's in the Dallas Fort Worth metro. They have ninety five agents. They're an independent and you know the model is almost this hybrid model which we're seeing pop up more and more where the broker/rainmaker is a weather pick your flavor. Right. Zillow preferred or premier whatever the program is and they feed their agents. And so the lead gen side they've got wired right they might be spending one hundred thousand dollars a month in this case. And what was interesting is she was so excited about EXP. Her biggest concern is I don't know if this is going to translate throughout my key people right? My leaders within my office and then the agents downstream. And what was interesting is Gene and the leaders were in town meeting with this Rainmaker and the key people and he called me yesterday afternoon and his conversation is "I only stayed half a day because they all get it. I met with a handful of people". I talked to him again this morning and he said we're done all ninety five or come and they're just basically working on the onboarding process with ninety five agents making sure everybody's applications and the revenue share piece is set up correctly. That is the wave of the future. I mean I've talked with people within the company they're talking to 25 agents smaller brokers and the driver for that. And if you think about the NRA numbers 55% of the agents aren't independents right. It's the biggest piece. We spent a lot of time talking about franchise systems. They're more in franchise system likes to tout that they're number one but you had the agents that are at independence. It's way bigger than they are. And so when you look at the opportunity this is the next big wave that's occurring. And you talk to these broker owners I'm talking to some in the United States in the southeast U.S. And the number one thing they say is they love being producers. They love mentoring and training agents. They love the Legion and helping people in the case of this this gal in the Dallas Fort Worth area. She'll be on the podcast shortly but what she's going to tell you is I don't like being a broker. I'd rather be brokered by EXP get out of compliance get all the systems and all of the things in place and just go do what we do well the brokerage stuff is not sexy. The brokerage stuff is not fun. The compliance stuff nobody enjoys. Previous to EXP it's been the necessity right. You didn't have somebody that said hey keep your brand keep your look and feel. Go do what you do well and then we'll take over all the other stuff. John: So it really is the best of all worlds. And I think that's really I mean just spending years and years.... I mean all again all over the US and even in Europe. One of the hardest things to overcome when you're having conversations with people about joining your company is it's really just ego. They like that their name is above the door. They like to tell everyone in their world that they own the company and the fact that that's happening at EXP is very telling. We've overcome that objection. You know people are like oh it's like well I could still on my company. It's just kind of you know using some of the EXP stuff too which is great. I mean this is it's a huge advantage for us just because it's you know the more or people show up the more examples we have to point to and say See we told you everything worked just fine except you're you're growing faster and you have fewer headaches. Kevin: Yeah. You know and part of what you did John is you talk to over the course of when you talked about turning around market centers and moving around there was a long period of time where I consider you a non team leader Team Leader. In other words you were having conversations with hundreds if not thousands of agents but virtually on the phone at conferences. So you've got a pretty good basically a take on mindset of agents. You personally were responsible for many many agents that went into Keller Williams When you look at this. John: You wanna know my number? Kevin: Yeah What is your number? I was going to ask you next. John: I had my office lady look it up before I left Keller Williams. I directly recruited sponsors like brought to the company just me but named me as the reason they were with Keller Williams one hundred and sixty two before I left. And there were many many more of those that like top of a hundred sixty two that I recruited on behalf of other people because that was my job right. So it was really just a hundred sixty two that I found on my own. And then as you know it's like hundreds or like you said I don't know how we'd be able to tabulate that but we'll just say north of a thousand. Kevin: You've got a great take on this you know so enjoining EXP and you know coming from a franchise system. If I'm an agent. Whether I'm a rainmaker on individual age a mega agent and I'm an expansion agent that's thinking about this. What are the two or three things that you think that. You learned about it that if you were on the phone with these people going forward you would say you really have a couple of options you could go to a franchise system or you go to EXP. And here are the big benefits of being at the EXP. John: Yep that's a good question. So if I had to put it in bullet form first the money has to work right. You know it's a Financial decision this is a business like we're in business to make money. So we do other things too. There could be a bigger purpose for our you know working in real estate but like the math has to work. So the. That was a good thing for me because you look at EXP everybody is on an 80 20 split the 20 percent caps at sixteen thousand dollars a year no matter where you are compared to my San Francisco office with Keller Williams where I was paying fifty thousand dollars she here is a cap. I mean that alone by you know in two hundred eighty dollars a month in an office these you know it's just a huge expense to be there now. Sounds like you don't have to do to any deals the same let's go to cap but still like I can have that same environments like comparable stuff or even better tools and only pay sixteen thousand here. So that seemed like a much better deal to me. So that was part of that. There's you know a small transaction fee after the after the sixteen thousand but it's nothing substantial nothing to worry about. In addition to that there are certain ways you can earn a publicly traded stock. So it's not privately held. There's not a king of EXP it's all up it's on the Nasdaq. It's a publicly traded company. So for longtime I guess it's a good side note just as far as this goes that EXP was traded on the OTC exchange. So it's just another stock exchange out there. But the trick with that is that it's there's not as much liquidity because it's not like you know we'll call Big Boy exchanges. So really it's like you got to be a publicly traded company you want to be on one of the big exchanges in the US. That's the New York Stock Exchange with the Nasdaq. I go to the two that are reputable and that's where you want to be. So earlier this year another sort of catalyst to me opening up the conversation to joining. Was when EXP was Listed as what they call it. You get up listed to the Nasdaq. So they went off the OTC. Exchange and onto the Nasdaq. You don't get to do that just by choice. I mean you have to be performing well and behaving well and. Know. The analysts and everybody else has to be compliance people the FCC everybody has to. Agree that everything is legit. So I like that. I like that there is some third [arty accountability to everything that we do. Versus you know it's like we have it we have a board of directors into the people on the board of directors are agents that real estate people so they're not just the financial types and the bean counters that you would find them on a traditional board of directors. So when the board of directors of stock analysts and all those people get involved. You know there's some accountability. Versus when you have a company controlled by essentially one person. There's not. Any real accountability I have no piece of ownership and that's I'm contrasting with where I came from. And it's more of a dictatorial sort of environments. So. You know being able to earn stock being able to purchase stock at a discount. I mean. The portion of my commission checks can go toward purchasing. This publicly traded stock and I get it at a 20 percent discount. So basically every deal that I do I'm getting a 20 percent gift from the EXP. It's like I mean you know it's like if you invest in stocks like 8 to 10% consider pretty great. So if I'm getting an instant 20% regardless of how the stock performs feels like likely going to continue to grow then that's good news for me. So those were the big financial components. Oh and then I almost forgot the getting into technology which I'll come back to in a second but the Web sites that we get I mean these are some of the best lead generation sites you can get for your business. We work with Konversion. You don't know them check them out. I think last time I looked to their retail prices were a thousand dollars to set up and then 500 a month just for the system and then you have to pay ads and everything on top of that. But at EXP that's all included in the 50 dollar month technology fee. So it's a 500 a month I'm paying 50 a month. So you don't like anything else about the EXP or you don't care about revenue share and you'll care about the training you care about the virtual world. If you don't want to do your own business whatever you could make an argument that it's just the Web site by itself basically pay for your affiliate vision with the EXP if you want to do any of the rest like you're going to stumble across other great thing that you expected. I'd like that by itself is a good enough argument to make the move so. So that was the money piece as far as the technology goes so we'll continue that thread just for a little background there. I've been involved with tech startups as both an adviser like a formal advisor and an investor for years. In fact I looked it up the first one that I did was back in 2007 was a property portal that was competing with like Zillow to really realtor dot com didn't make it as far as those guys did just it was funding and leadership and whatever else. But you learn a lot through that process. A lot of people understand kind of the dynamics. So I'm very comfortable vetting technology and more importantly not just the technology it's the teams working on the technology real estate in general as an industry as a late adopter for most technology things even today. So for example there's a zip code valuation thing that's clogging my Facebook timeline right now with people asking their clients you send me your zip code I'll give you a valuation. Well that technology has been around for about 10 years now for many years. I was a customer of the company that developed first just as a real time market valuation estimates are now 10 years later everyone's acting like it's some revolutionary thing. You know.. Give me break... it you know if it's fancy tech that's going to disrupt the industry and that's the fancy tech then there's not much concern for me that like that's what I'm competing with. So going back to the teams that worked with technologies I mean the technology itself is great. It's like there's the wonderful stuff I get to use. Everything works fine. I have to worry about it like of course the EXP is going to continue to expand those offerings of course are going to develop their own proprietary stuff. So right now we're just growing so fast that you know the priority it seems to be like we need to be sure our basic system scale. So the people that are joining to get deals done right. Like we'll worry about dressing it up later. But really the team behind the technology is the most important piece for me not just in real estate but like everywhere because technologies involving at such a rapid pace that we're going to have to pivot we're going to have to make changes we're going to have to make decisions that are going to alter the sort of trajectory of the technology that's being used and developed. And it's like I have the full faith in the team the technology team at EXP to get that done. Again it's like we're not a real estate company pretending to be a tech company right. It's like technology's been built in from the very beginning. Right. So it's like yes real estate sales is our focus but it's not a sort of copycat thing after the fact. Thinking hey we need to get on this tech train. I'd like to know I've been tech focused from the beginning. That's where the team's focus has been and so with the company's focus has been that's been our game from the very beginning. You know I trust the team to be able to make the right decisions and keep us ahead of the curve and those sorts of things. Kevin: A lot of people know this because I've mentioned it before. You know I was one of the first sites up on real geeks when Jeff Manson rolled that stuff out and S. Lewis from my team. So you know you and I are fairly tech savvy and we do this and that was a huge draw for me as well. I also find the whole post your social media and give me your zip code I'll give you a report. This just shows that the average agent who's wowed by that doesn't realize that as a member of the National Association of Realtors they have an RPR account and that functionality is built in there too. So everybody has this not just the EXP agents everybody has it. So it's fun for some of us to understand technology to kind of smile at that but you know a lot of agents are not as tech savvy and certainly when they look at the suite if you look at the you know the platform for conversion you look at the enterprise application all of the back office stuff the workplace platform and the collaborative tools. You don't have to be super tech savvy to plug into EXP. And then again that's another misnomer that you know this is for you know super tech savvy agents. We have plenty of agents come through the onboarding process hit the ground running and they're like very commonly saying Wow I had no idea I could use all these tools and you know raise my hand get answers that super easy if you could use an iPhone you can use everything we have. So it's not that big of a deal. Sorry. Or Android. For those people out there.. You know I'm not overly concerned with today's hottest apps on stuff. Right? It's like it's just not really that much of a concern for me. My clients choose me because of our relationship not because of my fancy shiny tools like shiny things are going to change my relationship. It's like Sure it might make it easier for me to keep up with all my clients. Like give me some leverage but it's really about me and the value I provide to my clients. It's like that's you know that's not going to go away. So that was the answer to the technology.

Craig Bozic is joined in episode 3 by Kevin So of Razzball and Fantasy Unicorns. They start the show by taking the listening questions, put the rookie spotlight on Atlanta Hawks' Kevin Huerter and discuss the values of Derrick White and Goran Dragic moving forward.  Craig finishes the show by profiling USC freshman Kevin Porter Jr and his impressive start to the college season.

Today we talk with mega agent Tom Daves from Sacramento Califonia. Tom was previously working with Keller Williams being a top world wide agent. As a team leader he runs a large successful real estate team. Tom talks to us about his decision to move to EXP, why he did, he touches on the real estate market change, equity, growth and revenue share and explains how much of a game changer his transition has been to his life and business.  Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.     In this episode Being Sceptical about EXP EXP in Nasdaq Market Change Why Join EXP EXP as an Exit Strategy The EXP value proposition Equity and revenue share opportunities Marketplace disruption Due Diligence  Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Tom to inquire or ask questions. Contact Tom: Call at 855 Tom Daves. Or email at Tom@TomDavesteam.com. Links: www.EXPCloud.com Takeway The pain the other great mega agents that are coming on board and as well as the alignment with amazing team members that we have. So yeah it all came together at once. Transcription KEVIN: Welcome back to another episode of EXP explained podcast I am host Kevin Cottrell joining me today from just outside of Sacramento California is Tom Davis. He is the team lead from the Tom Dave's real estate team. If you're in that Keller Williams system you undoubtedly recognize Tom's name in his team's name. They were the number one team for several years running in the Keller Williams system nationwide and Tom runs a business on the team that does multiple hundreds of millions of dollars per year. A very very large business very successful businessman in the real estate business he's been in the business for quite some time. So when I heard that Tom had made the move from Keller Williams as a large multi hundred million dollar producing team I wanted to find out his insight on why he made the decision to join the EXP. What he shared with me, I know he's going to be insightful whether you're a team lead on a smaller team or your team lead on a large team like Tom's including expansion teams. Please stay tuned for my interview with Tom Daves. KEVIN: Welcome to the show Tom. TOM: Hey Kevin. Thank you. KEVIN: Oh I'm looking forward to our conversation. Excited to share your story and talk a little bit about the big change you made over EXP. But before we do that why don't you give us a little of your background. Obviously a lot of our listeners probably know who you are but once you get a little bit of your real estate background talk a little about your business before we dive into the big change here. TOM: No I appreciate it. Absolutely. I've actually been in the business for 40 years. Kevin I started when I was 12 at a very young age and started right away and worked with traditional real estate sales and got into management and had a couple of different Remax brokerages and also worked with Oreo's with Flip's, Blackstone private equity team so pretty much seen every single economic cycle and it's been an amazing tour so far. I'm really excited that I'm now at EXP and I always say real estate you know is very very exciting and you can go from the hype of exploitation to the depths of defeat within the same 60 seconds. So it's fun it's exciting and it's all mindset right. KEVIN: Absolutely absolutely. So I think the question and certainly for me and everyone else when you announced you were leaving Keller Williams. You were the top agent worldwide for five years so this is the question I have someone who has that big business right. It's Mission critical it's important you're the top guy at Keller Williams worldwide for five years. This is an important decision. It's a strategic decision. What led up to walk us through a little bit of the process and why EXP. TOM: Okay great. So as I briefly mentioned I think my favorite saying is Wayne Gretzky you have to skate where the puck is going to be. And I've been blessed enough to position myself in most cases ahead of the curve and I head of that economic cycle whether it was traditional Oreo Flipp's you know hooked up with Blackstone private equity sold them like 600 homes in a year and a half. And the team and don't get it wrong. You know the team was amazing and Keller Williams was amazing. I was there for 18 years. I have nothing bad to say about them. But being a top agent is not always what it's cracked up to be. Candidly the margins weren't always that good. I had some great years and I noticed over the last few years that the margins were definitely shrinking and the market is starting to crown the market is starting to change as well. And there's no doubt that the market is shifting and it's technology based cloud based you know with all of the different companies that are coming online. Zillow, Redfin, Purple bricks, Amazon and they are all engaging in real estate. There's no doubt that technology is the future of our industry. And plus the consumers that consumers want and instantaneous communication at their fingertips. So that was you know one of the main reasons was the economic model and the cloud base. I literally when I made the move and changed over to the EXP realty I cut my expenses in half which was pretty amazing. And my very first month I had a 42 percent profit margin.My first month here which was pretty awesome. Pretty excited about that. Not to mention you know the stock EXP were publicly traded company as well as the revenue share and really having an exit strategy as a leader. I always feel that we need to seek out opportunities for our talent for our organization. And one of the problems that I've always had is to keep that ceiling of opportunity far greater than what anyone could achieve if you don't you're not going to be able to keep any talent. And it was becoming a little bit of a struggle for me whereas with EXP with the three types of income the commission income the stock for building are well as well as the revenue share it really truly provides an exit strategy for myself, anyone on the team and anyone that seeks to find it with literally no capital risk which is pretty cool. And the final is to have the opportunity to partner and align myself with you know Don Yokum, Randy Bird, Brent Gove, go and Gene Frederick. I mean it's just amazing that to align yourself you are the sum total of the four or five people that you hang out with. So that's pretty cool. And there is a saying that I really like is not always the assignment it's the alignment and that's quite frankly why I made that change. It wasn't easy. It was tough. But that's why I made change and that's why some of the biggest minds in the business are going after this thing. KEVIN: The question I have for you. I'm glad you brought up the margins. And one of the things I want to talk about is and I don't know if you're involved in the early MREA early 2000s when they had everybody in Austin for those mastermind's. I used to be with Andy Allen and Aaron Lancaster and they had that one of those mammoth early teams that was doing 600 transactions a year more. And what we found was exactly what is talked about which is there's a lot of sexiness to high volume and high transaction volume but the margins can be rail thin. You're subject to market conditions changes keeping talent attracting and recruiting and all that becomes a big machine. And I found most interesting your comment about instant profitability and margin increase because really if you look at it from the standpoint of the originals called the core value proposition in the MREA book about what you should be making your numbers went from where they were which undoubtedly was a lot less to you called it 40 - 42% which is sort of the lauded number that the best of the best in that model should hope for. Now one of the realities is you know I'm from Austin you know I joined Keller Williams very you know probably pretty close to when you were involved with them as well. And you know Gene was my mentor and trained me and then I was a team leader so I was around a lot of this and that was my first observation. I'm glad you brought it up because I think the marketplace is trying to figure this out right. You know there's a couple of challenges with big teams. You touched on one which is you know like you said it's not always awesome to be the biggest guy on the block with the most volume of people and expenses because the margins can get thin. But for listeners. Here's an example of an enormous operation that suddenly had 40 percent whereas before and you don't have to tell us necessarily what it was. But I would imagine you were probably down in some pretty low numbers where you had to watch things carefully and things could go south I'm assuming. TOM: Oh absolutely. And like I mentioned the margins were definitely shrinking. Yeah I was top agent with KW And you walk across stage and get your plaque but it's all about the bottom line of the profit and it did take me a few years to learn that realized that I think the first half of my career was all about success and walking across the stage and kind of all about me. But the second half is about significance. About pouring into others adding value and the bottom line right. They get significant. KEVIN: Tom the question I have is in the traditional teams that the retention of talent sometimes is hard right. They want to go do their own thing because they can only grow to a certain capacity and income level and they don't have the buckets of revenue share. They don't have stock. And so the comments that I'm getting from guests again and again are that my environment and my team from a standpoint of wealth creation for team members is different now because I can help them and mentor them. So it's not just one bucket production in their income that comes from that they can build revenue share they can have stock. Are you looking at that in your operation as being something that you're going to basically utilize for team members as well. KEVIN: Absolutely. And I think one common mistake that real estate agents do is they don't treat their business like a business and they don't think long term. So many agents and brokers are on the real estate cycle. Good month bad month. But if we begin with the end in mind and we think long term then we'll be able to build a plan and a strategy with a vision to achieve the goals that we really want to achieve to live that big life. And that's what it's all about you know whatever that is. KEVIN: And that's true. And I've heard from guest after guest and you know Jean and I and you and and Don Yoakam and others are talking to a lot of people and the ability for people to create the different income brackets that you talked about is a game changer it just doesn't exist right there's nothing wrong with the franchise systems. They just have not created an environment where that exists in other words. I've got a key team member and they want to go off and do the next big thing, normally and quite often it is go do their own thing have their own team. Well in the EXP world what we're seeing again and again and again is they start looking at the bucket of revenue share. They start looking at let me accumulate stock the way that we can accumulate stock and so it's creating a different dynamic especially for the teams that are coming into the EXP envelope where the rainmakers and the leaders who are in these teams are saying everybody's trading everything different. They're not inclined to run off and go do their own thing or even talking about it like they were they're talking about you know hey Tom tell me how to go do this. I want your help. I want to go get revenue share and I'm assuming that was part of your equation too you know to reward talent and attract people because not only are you known throughout the system that you just came from but you're well-known enough in the industry that lots of teams are going to pay attention to what they're going to hear on this interview and what they hear from you and Don Yoakum and others which is this is a game changer isn't it. TOM: Oh it really is. And EXP just totally provides the structure and the ownership opportunity that most brokerages don't. And this structure vital to maintaining a profitable real estate business and creating additional income just being in a constant state of growth. KEVIN: Which is absolutely true. So imagine rolling back to when you were observing and you were in sort of the big franchise system and you were starting to see significant movement because it has been going on for a little over a year where we had really big movement among teams including large teams. A lot of listeners are in that same position today. And I want to kind of talk a little about due diligence and key things that if you were sitting down and having coffee with them you would want them to be thinking about in other words you were where they are before now you know what you know. And as Jay Kinder says once it's seen it can't be unseen. So let's talk about some of those things from the standpoint of putting you back in your you know "I'm the number one guy worldwide at Keller Williams. I'm seeing this happen". What are the things you know now that you'd want somebody listening to this to say if I'm a team leader for a real estate team a big production team what should they be paying attention to how should they approach this from a due diligence standpoint. TOM: That's a great question. So I would take a look at the books. Take a look at the numbers. Take a look at the economic model. Talk to others that have gone before you. And you know things that to be honest I was a little bit skeptical that I mean I just thought EXP with all of these ways of creating wealth and opportunity. It just sounded too good to be true. And I just did not believe that it was sustainable. But when the Federal Trade Commission approved EXP to go on the Nasdaq and will become publicly traded. It was a game changer for me. I'm like OK well that's it. It's a done deal. So definitely a way to go. KEVIN: The other thing that's a factor obviously the up listing on NASDAQ is huge. Right. It's a credibility thing you don't get uplifted in the Nasdaq if there are holes in your business model and things are not sustainable and you can't go essentially out in the marketplace if they look at it and go oh this is never going to work long term. Right this is not the way it works in Nasdaq. So the second thing that I think you mentioned it's important to circle back to is the fact that too many it looks too good to be true. And you know my advice always is you know there's guys like you rent go Jean-Frederic, Pat Hays Scott and Tracy Lewis, me. There's a number of people that are available to you as resources Don Yokum will be another one. And you know that's why we always before we wrap up in these interviews get the best way for contact information. Most guests will say here's how you reach me and text me and I'll be happy to talk to you because they'll be other people that are in similar situation to you regardless of how they learned about the EXP they're going to be like well "I'm skeptical too. I need to talk to somebody" and that is in my mind a key due diligence step. In other words don't sit there in an envelope either hearing the words you're in a vacuum or an envelope you don't see any outside information and looking in the envelope going this doesn't make any sense to me. It looks too good to be true and you're trying to make your decision in a vacuum. You need to talk to people that have come before you like Tom said you need to have those reference calls and that's part of the process. And so part of the reason we do the I guess interviews so you can hear in the parties like Tom's words why they did what they did. But I would imagine that in this process Tom that you didn't just do this and figured out on your own you did talk to people did you. TOM: Oh I did. Absolutely. I did a deep dive. I spoke with two different business coaches both my coaches spoke with several different people many of the agents that have already come onboard with the EXP and asked them what they would do differently. You know if there were any snags or any concerns and every single one of them told me the main mistake that they made was they should have joined sooner. KEVIN: You know I mean frankly that is the number one thing that we tell people which is even if you decide it's not for you. I mean if you're a rainmaker and a team you know whether you're similar level and scope to what Tom is or maybe you have a team that's a much smaller team. The biggest mistake you could make is being skeptical of not doing something because definitively if you waited three four or five years it's going to be a different opportunity. It's kind of like the people that were at Keller Williams When you talk to Jean-Frederic and others that got in in the early 90s and got significant profit share built up and they are at the top of the tree. It's the business opportunity with a rapidly growing business. EXP is growing faster than the franchise system ever did because of the way it structured its a cloud based brokerage. So that would be my advice too which is even if you ultimately decide to not do it take Tom's advice and dig in and talk to those people do those reference calls. Figure out if it's a good fit for you. And then dip the decision but do it sooner rather than later. Because what ends up happening is more and more of your peers and your competitors in the marketplace are going to be over and they you know look up and if you waited you know God forbid three four or five years you're going to see a lot of people coming over and I'm sure that was part of what you saw. You started see what started slowly last fall. You know and then you had like Jay Kinder or Michael Reese and some others come over and then mega team after team came over in the last 12 months. I mean it's a crazy number of teams after Jay came over in November and I'm sure it will be hard to miss that in the marketplace. TOM: Like I said many of the best minds are going to after this and also I think one of the things that was happening was my pain was increasing you know as I mentioned the margins were shrinking. Just different things were happening with the growth of the team and the numbers and you know the only way for me to keep the numbers was just to you know we closed 350 transactions last year. Okay keep these margins we need to do 450. You know let's just do more volume let's just do more deals hire more staff to crank up. And so the pain I believe was getting so great that this opportunity was a no brainer for me. You know it all kind of came to a head all at once. The pain the other great mega agents that are coming on board and as well as the alignment with amazing team members that we have. So yeah it all came together at once. KEVIN: Tom here's what I would say too is because your business is so gigantic is the top guy worldwide Keller Williams. You look and act a lot like we're also seeing. And you know this because you and Yokum are talking about it is lots and lots of independent brokers whether they're small at 30 40 50 agents 25 agents or hundreds of agents are all waking up with a similar problem what you had which is margins are thin. The industry is shifting. God forbid there is a big market shift and they're caught on the wrong side of it with EXP growing around them. And I know you're seeing it and I'm just saying this for listeners benefits what Tom saw and Tom accomplished is not unlike why the independent brokers are what Gene and I see as one of the huge trends that's going to happen in the next three years is the conversion. TOM: Oh absolutely. KEVIN: So one of the things I always like to ask is Tom before I get your contact info for listeners in case they want to reach out to you is there anything that you hoped I asked you on the podcast today that you really wanted to get out about EXP and watch what's going on over here that I didn't ask. TOM: No that's great. I think we hit the high points. KEVIN: Okay fantastic. So again I always give this preface. It doesn't matter who got you interested in the EXP Tom and Jean and I or Brent Gove or anybody you hear on these interviews is there as a reference to help you make the right decision. Tom's the same way I'm going to get his contact information as far as the best way to reach him. We're going to turn right around and send you back to whoever introduced you to the EXP that's the cultural agent's point in the same direction. So don't feel sheepish if you're a team leader on a big team and this is mission critical for you as well and you feel like Tom's e-mail shoot straight with you and he's enough of a peer that you think he's the right guy to talk to, Tom how do they reach you. TOM: Great the best way to reach me is to either call me at 855 Tom Daves. Or you can e-mail me at Tom@TomDavesteam.com. KEVIN: Okay perfect. I appreciate you coming on. And thank you so much Tom. Thanks Kevin. Have a great day.    

Brent Carlson, Craig Bozic and guest Kevin So discuss the beginning of the NBA season and answer listener questions.  All of that and more on the latest edition of the Razzball Basketball Podcast!

In today's we have Nicki Gregory from Amarillo Texas. Nicki was previously with the franchise system first starting as Mom and Pop and further working with keller Williams. As a team leader she runs a real estate team. Nicki talks to us about her decision to move to EXP, why she did, she touches on equity and revenue share and explains how much of a game changer her transition has been to her life and business.  Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.     In this episode EXP as an Exit Strategy The EXP value proposition Equity and revenue share opportunities Marketplace disruption Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Nicki to inquire or ask questions. Contact Nicki: Phone 806 316 4498 email. Nicki.Gregory@exprealty.com  Links: www.EXPCloud.com Takeway Everyday we say that we're just blown away. We say mind blown every day.  It's been a big blessing for my team and for my family. Now we're happy. Nicki Gregory Transcription Kevin: Welcome back to another episode of In The Cloud. The EXP Realty Explained Podcast. I am host Kevin Cottrell and joining me today is Nicki Gregory from Amarillo Texas. Nicki was previously with the franchise system and as a team leader she runs a real estate team made the decision to leave the franchise system and join EXP realty. It's going to talk about her decision to do that. What drove it how revenue share and equity in the EXP realty model is making a game changer difference in her business and her family's life and the ability for them to fund some charities they're interested in. I think you'll enjoy the conversation as Nicki shares why she made the decision to join you EXP realty. Stay tuned for my interview with Nicki Gregory. Welcome to the show Nicki. Nicki: Hello. Kevin: I'm looking forward to chat with you today. For listeners that may not know your name and where you work why don't you give us a little bit of background in terms of her real estate history. Nicki: Ok my name's Nicki Gregory and I'm in Amarillo Texas. I went to real estate school in 06 and I did not get my license until 2011. My husband and I flipped houses for landlords and I didn't want to get it until 2011 so I started selling houses for other people at that point. Started as a Mom and Pop here in town. And then I moved over to KW in 2012 and I've just been selling ever since. Kevin: We've actually had a couple of people on the podcast that started out in the investor side flipping property and working on that side of the business and that went into residential production. So let me just ask you some questions about your business because I know a lot of people listening to this will be real estate agents. Do you have a team. Are you an individual agent and kind of volume do you have. Nicki: I do. I have a team here. The Red Door group and we do about around 10 or 11 million. Kevin: Excellent. So you mentioned that you were with Keller Williams most recently before joining EXP. What led you to the decision to take a look at the EXP tell me about how that happened. Nicki: I kind of you know you start thinking should I look elsewhere or should I be looking at other options actually really exit strategy was probably the biggest thing that was coming into play with conversations with my husband and I and so we have a friend who does some mission work in Thailand and we have been fortunate to be able to bless them and help them a little bit. There she has homes for orphans. Well rescued kids from their rescued from human trafficking. And so we had been able to help her some but we really have been discussing more and more how could we do more. And also our exit strategy on same conversations and we were looking and thinking or towards us maybe opening our own brokerage me getting my broker's license. So I started researching that and looking into whether that would be a good fit for us and not just always seems like where everybody thinks they're going to end up. And so I started looking into that and in the process of looking into it I saw a video with Jay Kinder announcing that he had to EXP and Gene Frederik's video about him owning the blockbusters and several of those videos were coming across my news feed and I'd stay up late watching those and realized I don't think at my age that this is you know if this is what's happening to people who already own brokerage's that's not the right direction for me. And so I don't want to be in a year or two you know having to make the same decisions right after I just started up a startup you know brokerage so that is how it happened. So I just signed up under Jay Kinder where we are. Kevin: Excellent excellent. Well you know you echo what a lot of people say especially if they're in a franchise system you know if you're looking at exit strategy or what the next steps are usually it's sort of unidimensional and I'm sure you went through some of this challenge which is if you're coaching with somebody they want you to do more production and eventually figure out how to get out of that and have a team that you just lead and I think that that's sort of a challenge for many people. Right. You know I certainly had a team in St. Louis previously and we did like 250 transactions a year and I had lots of volume but it wasn't something that was going to be easily converted to me running it passively or just leading only. And you know what. So when you talk about exit strategy I wanted to tie that down for a lot of the listeners because there'll be plenty of them that are out there thinking "well I don't want to be doing listings" if that's what they do which a lot of our listeners will. "And I want to just be listening and selling houses 15 years from now" so exit strategy in my parlance and I'm assuming it's the same for you is trying to figure out how to not be so dependent on others if I stop working my income goes away or it dramatically reduces because team members are not as proficient as me and or if I want to start setting more money aside and net more I going to really ramp up my production and I would assume that's part of your challenge as well when you were looking at that initially. Nicki: That was the challenge that was presenting itself and that I was seeing people who were actually moving over to EXP because they tried to sell their brokerage's and or surprised at what they were the offers they were getting were not you know sufficient for retirement and so that became a concern for me. Kevin: So you're heading on another topic we're actually seeing and I've interviewed several of them lots of independent brokers who are decided to become powered by the EXP and so what Nikki's referring to is lots of the independent brokerage community is looking at exit strategy as well in other words. There has never been a time in which independent brokers unless they're enormous have gotten great offers. Right? You have to be of huge size to get anybody that excited and interested in you and other than that your margins and your income are to the point where you're going to get basically just somebody who says I'll do and earn now or I'll give you some nominal amount of money and you can stay around for five years and help us run it. And most people don't want to do it right? Nicki: Right. No thank you. Kevin: Yeah exactly so because of the branding and and you know Mitch Riback is an episode that somebody can go listen to out of Florida. Mitch had a huge multimillion dollar offer on his brokerage and he still elected to become powered by EXP. So what Nicki is talking about is something that's sort of an industry dynamic right now. You know if you own a franchise and you listen to this you've got a little bit of a different challenge right. You're going to have to make your own best decision on what to do. But everybody that was excited that I've ever met that actually opened a franchise location unless it's coming up for renewal and they're in the window in the last six months where they can get out. They're not very happy right because they're are sort of stuck with it unless they can find somebody to buy it. So we don't have a lot of great advice for you of your franchise so that although we would tell you that there are plenty of them who have decided to sell and cash out who have come over and join EXP. So there is a path for you to get out of it you'll have to do your own due diligence and figure out how to make that happen. But you're in a little bit of a different spot than an independent broker. So you know just work your way through that process will probably at some point in the near future have somebody that was a previous franchise owner and they'll talk a little about how they were able to unwind there by selling their operations. So Nicki I want to talk to you about the EXP value proposition because you know you you came through the process and you looked at wanting to be able to work with that organization and you know make donations and help them with that awesome thing they're doing to get people out of human trafficking. And then in addition to that you wanted to look at retirement. So how long was it before you kind of analyzed the equity opportunities and the revenue share that had kind of hit you up the side of the head and you went hmmm. This is completely different than when you know what I'm in now.. Nicki: A day or two. I mean it's like Jay says all the time when you see it you can see it. And I was one of those that had the EXP Somnia you know watching the videos the first night and thinking I mean I can think of a reason that you would not do that and then also to see that opportunity for the people on my team which that does exist really you know elsewhere for team members not just team leaders to the same level. And I wanted to be able to offer my team members more. And so yeah it didn't take me very long. Kevin: And what Nicky is talking about is the EXP insomnia or sort of just diving off the cliff into the information is a phenomenon we've seen. I've interviewed another independent broker who joined EXP where he was a previous client of mine on the consulting side. And I didn't go to him because of the way he ran his business. He wasn't potentially a good prospect. And his quote when I talked to him about it was he came to me on a Thursday. He knew I acquired a lot of independent brokerages and asked me who I knew that might be a good conversion fit. And I got a email from him and a text like midnight on Sunday and he's like I haven't slept. Can we do a chat tomorrow. It's interesting because as Nicki said the phenomenon is that once you get into this it's hard to fathom not digging into it and figuring out validating how you actually the world and I want to come back to something she said because we hear this a lot from rainmakers of teams. One of the challenges in addition to the one we already looked at is it's hard to think about an exit other than people and the this goes back to the star power days right. Everybody talked about will how much did you get for your business and what was in that era was selling your list than your database and they would sell them and they would potentially get the effectively referrals or referral fees or other fees on the back and based on that volume and everybody a few years into that figured out that that wasn't very much money. But by the same token there wasn't anything available for team members. Right? You know if you're in a franchise system and there are some of them Nicki and I come from the same one right there all about teams. But what they don't talk about is sort of the dirty little secret which is it's all about conflict right. The Rainmaker owns the team the the team members are there. And there's a built in conflict if they get to be what you two like to be attracting which is talent. And now you can't offer them the huge opportunity in those cases that they want to go start their own thing. Then one of two things happens they either leave the market center and go do it on their own somewhere else in the marketplace or they stay there and there's a little bit of strife and conflict. Well in the EXP value proposition because of revenue sharing equity and the ability for teams to actually develop talent from within. We've seen people tackle this a couple of ways. I mean certainly with revenue sharing stacking I'm sure this is the direction you went Nicki which is you were able to actually create wealth for them in the process of attracting more and more agenta and well we'll get into sort of your success with revenue sharing a quick period of time in a second but the second thing that we're seeing people do and this is just meant to be a comment for people from the outside. And this may or may not surprise you. Nicki there are a lot of people across the country that I'm talking to that are going to above market average meaning typical for market splits with agents and this is one of the ways of rewarding agents in addition to revenue share because they can afford to pay it right there are some in Houston Texas where over time as their revenue share grows they're doing a retention strategy with team members where they're paying higher splits and this what's just keep going up because their primary wealth over time is not dependent on getting as much money as possible on their team production. Nicki: Yep. There's So many different opportunities that we can cover probably enough that we find new ones every day. I can tell you that. Kevin: It's something that in a production business and these are some of the things that are not intuitive to people while we have this podcast from the outside is not only do you have the non conflict right in other words there is equity opportunities and if you watch some of the information and there's a link in the podcast notes the shows an intro video when we're talking about ways that people are in equity and revenue share. Team members can actually start to create some wealth by helping attract agents to the company and they do that because they interface with a lot of agents so you have a prolific team. They're out there doing transactions with their agents on that on the team's business and or are meeting agents at events networking events or just out in the marketplace. And now is that a retention tool but it's a wealth tool for them isn't it. Nicki: Yes which is the exact opposite of what you were just talking about that we're finding now making friends with no direct competitor are now were able to work together as even a larger team in our community. And it's been pretty amazing to watch and to experience people that you've known for years but now it's a different thing it's a different relationship a different environment that we are all helping each other. It's pretty pretty cool it's fun. We're having fun.. Kevin: And that's something that if you listen to Gene Frederic or about 90 % of people that I interview on this podcast everybody uses the same phrase which is we're having fun again and again. And because it's disruptive and we're all owners of equity in the company we're agent owners if you will. It's causing a different dynamic. One the politics are gone and you know she just talked about this in her marketplace. I had a guest on that I interviewed recently and she was the number two team in a Dallas Fort Worth market center. The number one team came over like a week or 10 days before her. Right. So she made the comment she said We are collaborating so closely now in our marketplace and for the years that I was in that market center we didn't ever hardly ever talk if at all. And it's interesting because that's a dynamic that occurred moving from a franchise system and their culture and the way the business operates to the EXP system where people are all pointed the same direction. It's a culture that you shouldn't ever let anybody from the outside convince you doesn't exist. It is in one of the things that every guest on this podcast talks about is doesn't matter where you were introduced to the EXP by. If you listen to one of these episodes and before we wrap up today Nicki will give her contact information. Like every other guest does. It doesn't matter how you heard about it. If a guest resonates with you you want to talk to them and you want to get that you know and dive in a little deeper on it. It doesn't matter it's not a matter of you being sponsored by them or you being in their revenue share group. Everybody is pointed the same direction we all want to help each other and I'm sure as you said in your marketplace that's what's happening we're overall whether you were previous competitors or not you're disrupting the marketplace aren't you. Nicki: Yes we are. That's why we call yourself the disruptors club here. So that's exactly what we're doing. Kevin: And that speaks to the point of somebody listening to this podcast will be in a market you know whereas we're recording this the company between active agents and people and process onboarding is way north of 10000 agents. So we get a lot of well joining you might be on a state or a market where there's a handful of agents maybe looking around going well you know there's not a lot going in my market and I'm not sure what's going to happen. And I wonder if it's going to work here. You know it doesn't matter if you looked at two and a half three years ago in Dallas where Sherry Elliott talked about being the 16th or 14th agent when they have over 800 now. It's a matter of time in your market and I'm sure in your market things have started to accelerate since you've come over versus where it was when you first looked at EXP. It starts to go fast doesn't it? I know you said you've started to collaborate your marketplace. So with that as sort of a precursor to the conversation about revenue share even with the EXP for only a few months. Nicki: Right. Just under four months. Kevin: You came from a system like I did where you were and profit share system and it was hard to figure out you know when and if you're going to make money because it's a more complicated formula and it really varies by whether the franchise location is profitable and the person does production now in a revenue share model you and I first connected because I happened to notice that you were talking about the fact that you were blown away from your revenue share checks compared to what you used to see in the other world. Let's talk about that for a couple minutes. Nicki: Yeah my post that I made that I think your are referring to is.. I'm a little shocked because I you know I was at KW all these years. And the first couple of years I was there I worked really diligently on recruiting and I got a couple of good checks and then you know lead dwindled down to I think my biggest one last year I can't remember. It was like 120. I think under 150 most checks are my last one I got was 18 dollars. OK. So this system works a little differently in which you're getting paid off the top that's the revenue share. And honestly I underestimated what my checks would be. And my last I don't remember what it was when I posted it but it ended up at the end of the month being about 14.44. Right at that. So the way I'm looking at that. To me I'm working at EXP for free. It's you know you take your cap and you figure with that is per month. Again why would somebody not want to do it now. You know anything more than that they're paying me to work there to be there. To me he brokered by them so I was amazed. Kevin: Most people don't realize and people listening to this may not have a good perspective on and I come from the same franchise system and there's nothing wrong with Keller Williams it's an excellent well led company they have great agents there but they live by the formula and the structure they've set up. So the story you just heard is not an outlier. There are plenty of people even people with large amounts of people in profit share that don't make very much money. You're dependent on the particular market center or market centers to be profitable person and not be capped at it all to occur at the same time and it doesn't mean you won't receive profit sharing or certainly not representing that. But what I can tell you very definitively is there are plenty of people that have success in the profit sharing system that now come over and been around longer than Nicki has and they are typically at about 10 times the pay out. And you after a couple of months are already at ten times what you were making before. And it goes up from there. In other words because it's so much of a larger number off the top and it's certainly not representing that everybody gets the same results. Right. You know you have to have an agent. They've got to be in production. But this is not a typical right. You can look at the formula and you can make your own calculation. Her comment of it being a surprise as to how much bigger it was and how quickly is not anything other than her success in attracting people to the company and people asking that question because I'm sure your phone rang when you made that announcement you're moving in they're like whoa wait wait you're going to be why? And then that resulted in some initial retraction and then because you're visible in your market you have influence more agents came over and that number will typically for most of the people including everybody we've interviewed on these podcast episodes grow over time. But for tying this down it's not unusual that it doesn't happen very quickly right. If you're influential in your market or you are active in your market production you're going to have people right off the bat don't be surprised if it's not the first week or two that they ring your phone and say I want to talk to you. I don't know how quickly it happened for you but I bet it was quick. Nicki: A day. Kevin: I have another guest it's coming up in an upcoming episode. He's on the East Coast and he said if I didn't have a conversation with somebody in the first couple of days I was getting a text or another message saying well you don't like me how come you're not going to call me and talk to me about why you went over the EXP. Nicki: Yep. Well I don't know if it's typical but that is what happened to so. Exactly. Kevin: It's a pretty interesting and fun dynamic. And you know just for comparison I gave you the examples listeners that you know people were joining EXP in Dallas a couple of years ago and there were you know 16 14 15 agents something like that and now it's over a hundred you know they have markets like San Diego they went from somewhat the neighborhood of 15 or 20 to 100 in 30 days. So it tends to accelerate quickly. Don't get confuse that if you're a particular market whether it's large or small it doesn't have a big presence of EXP agents. That's not the norm for it to stay like that very long. In terms of any other things you want somebody to know about EXP and sort of what you know now that you've been here for a couple of months. Any other takeaways that if somebody... doesn't matter if they are at Keller Williams and a franchise like you and I were or they're just an independent agent what would you suggest that from a due diligence standpoint they should be paying attention to. Nicki: I mean probably a little bit more for team leaders but also solo agents and that's the fact that you are not you know with the profit share we weren't really you know geographically limited but it did have that going on as far as my experience a little bit more but the opportunity here where I think it's going to really.. I mean it already is taking off but I think.. I keep telling my team you watch when everyone starts to understand that they can grow that revenue share anywhere. They're not limited to their market. So yes the market locally here is growing fast and this is a huge opportunity for us. But the fact that we're not limited really to this market and that we can... I mean there's we can.. any agent anywhere you know you can put in your revenue share so. When people start to get that I think it's going to blow up when they really start to get that. Kevin: Absolutely I was a team leader like Gene Frederic in the Keller Williams system right so I can speak to this directly. I mean the norm for how I would receive an agent that would I'd be in discussions with me as a team leader was much more heavily weighted in the local market and in the process was set up and oriented around that. Right? I was in South Florida and I would from my own agents in my market center get the vast majority of any kind of referrals. Every once in a while they be somebody coming in that was referred from somewhere else. But that was certainly not the norm. Now if you listen to interviews on this podcast it doesn't matter if it's Pat Hayes or Mitch Riback or Gene they'll talk to you about the fact that their revenue sharing group if you will is now multi state and also in the provinces of Canada and in the case of many of them they didn't have any direct relationship with a lot of those agents. In other words Pat said I haven't directly interfaced with any of the agents although I've helped people that are in Canada for example or a lot of these states and he's that I think in his case he was in you know some worries about 800 agents now and his revenue share and they're in like 33 states including two provinces of Canada in addition to that. So what Nicki is talking about is a phenomenon that EXP is very distinctly growing agent agent. In other words the islands of a franchise system like I used to run of the market center where the vast majority of the opportunities are presented to a team later and they convert and it could take a while right. Or it may not convert. It's very different than for example Kevin or Nicki having somebody that we've done a referral with in Nebraska or Florida and or we know them from a C or S training event or some other thing or Gnomon line. Right. And they've they've heard about EXP and now they see that Kevin or Nicki announced they've joined the company and they ask questions. They're much more likely because of the process by which they're onboard it at EXP to convert. And it's a whole different thing than what occurs in a franchise system and so what what I've done is kind of restated the dynamic that Nicki is talking about and it is something that until you see it start to happen agent agent and sort of virally from a social standpoint I don't think you're going to have a good perspective on it. It is not unusual for somebody to be with the company for a year or two years at least half if they have a decent sized revenue share group. They've been purposeful about it. They brought in their own set of some number of agents. They then will have agents in multiple states. It's almost like they have their own little virtual region as a Gene Frederic and I like to call it anything else we haven't covered today and then I'm going to have you get your contact information in case anybody wants to reach you. Nicki: I mean again and or just everyday we say that we're just blown away every day like we say mind blown every day because there's so much more we could cover but we're talking about mostly revenue share right now. But I mean just the fact that they make the splits to where people can afford to be on a team you know which is where some people need to be to get the idea that they need you know to learn the business. I could go on and on. It's been a big blessing for my team and for my family. Now we're happy. Kevin: Great. I mean some of the stuff that like you said we can go on and on about is the company is highly highly focused like you are on productivity and lead generation right they're set up to support either solo practitioners or producers and teams both from the standpoint of the CAP system the splits and the ability to structure correct and then the tools right. As a matter if it's the technology tools including things like conversion are core or anything else is in my opinion second to none. So if you're an agent out there listen to this and you are productivity based and you are serious about your business you owe it to yourself to dig into it you know and go back to the person who introduced you to EXP. If you want to talk to somebody within the company ask them to find you somebody that's a peer producer whether you're a solo producer or a big producer or with a team you're a rainmaker or listen to this. There are plenty of us right does matter if I get the call. If Nicki gets a call or Gene Frederic or Pat Hays no matter who it is you'll hear it on every one of these guest episodes. We're all here to help you make the right decision. We're not perfect for everybody as far as a fit but we certainly are perfect for a large majority of the real estate producers. All right so once you give them your contact information just somebody listens and they want to reach you. Nicki: OK. You can reach my cell phone 806 316 4498 and you can reach me by email. Nicki.Gregory r@exprealty.com Those probably the best two ways to get me quickly. Kevin: Excellent well thank you for coming on the show. Nicki: I appreciate it. Thank you so much.