Podcasts about thin places

In Genesis 28, Jacob declared he had come into the presence of God, but very nearly missed it. How can we make sure we don't miss those times and places when God desires to have an encounter with us?

God wants us to encounter Him. In order for us to do so, we need to create our own thin place. But how do we do this and live in that place? Paul continues our series on Prayer by sharing the second part of his message on Thin Places.

What would it look like if another Great Awakening swept through Southern Maine in the 21st century as it did in the 18th century? What would change in your own life if you experienced personal revival? Find out as we learn from Matthew 3 about a first-century Great Awakening. The post Thin Places first appeared on White Pine Community Church.

When we consider prayer, what is a thin place? How do we recognise thin places and what are the characteristics of a thin place? These questions and more are uncovered in this opening message in our series on prayer.

Catch up on the Week 3 video with author Julianne Stanz for the Fall 2024 Book Club: Braving the Thin Places: Celtic Wisdom to Create a Space for Grace. Our Book Club selection for Fall 2024 is Braving the Thin Places: Celtic Wisdom to Create a Space for Grace by Julianne Stanz, published by Loyola Press. Special Book Club offer! Use promo code BRAVING to receive 30% off the cover price of Braving the Thin Places when you purchase your copy direct from the publisher. Does not include shipping and handling. This coupon code expires November 20, 2024.  Bonus Links: Visit Julianne's website, JulianneStanz.com Follow Julianne on X: @juliannestanz Follow Julianne on Instagram: @juliannestanz

Where do heaven and earth kiss? In thin places, of course! And maybe also in the amusing chatter of crows. Let's explore the divine in the ordinary—and the silly—in this vibrant journey through nature.

Catch up on the Week 2 video with author Julianne Stanz for the Fall 2024 Book Club: Braving the Thin Places: Celtic Wisdom to Create a Space for Grace. Our Book Club selection for Fall 2024 is Braving the Thin Places: Celtic Wisdom to Create a Space for Grace by Julianne Stanz, published by Loyola Press. This week, author Julianne Stanz and our own Allison Gingras discuss the concept of a "crossing the threshold" and how that relates to our relationship with God, prayer, sharing faith with our children, four ways to combat despair, and the importance of encouraging others by calling them toward the light of Jesus. Special Book Club offer! Use promo code BRAVING to receive 30% off the cover price of Braving the Thin Places when you purchase your copy direct from the publisher. Does not include shipping and handling. This coupon code expires November 20, 2024.  Bonus Links: Visit Julianne's website, JulianneStanz.com Follow Julianne on X: @juliannestanz Follow Julianne on Instagram: @juliannestanz

Join us this week for our 11 AM worship service as Rev. Ramsey Jay preaches on Revelation 21:1-6a on All Saints Sunday. On this special Sunday, we honor and uplift the memory of those who have passed since last year, celebrating their lives, the legacy they leave behind, and the sacred, thin places where we […] The post November 3, 2024 Modern | Thin Places appeared first on Christ United Methodist Church.

Our Book Club selection for Fall 2024 is Braving the Thin Places: Celtic Wisdom to Create a Space for Grace by Julianne Stanz, published by Loyola Press. This week, author Julianne Stanz and our own Allison Gingras discuss the concept of a "thin place" and how that relates to our spiritual life, as well as what nourishes us as women and how being together is valuable to us. It's important to remember that there is no perfect balance. Special Book Club offer! Use promo code BRAVING to receive 30% off the cover price of Braving the Thin Places when you purchase your copy direct from the publisher. Does not include shipping and handling. This coupon code expires November 20, 2024.  Bonus Links: Visit Julianne's website, JulianneStanz.com Follow Julianne on X: @juliannestanz Follow Julianne on Instagram: @juliannestanz

In this episode, special guest Dana Hicks discusses his book "The Quest for Thin Places: How to Find Spirituality After Deconstruction." Dana shares his journey from being a pastor and professor to experiencing a profound spiritual and personal transformation. He delves into his deconstruction of rigid, institutional religious beliefs and explores the ongoing nature of spiritual growth and reconstruction. The conversation covers topics like the challenges of questioning long-held beliefs, the importance of spirituality beyond organized religion, and the role of personal autonomy and humility in this transformative process. Dana emphasizes the universal human quest for awe, wonder, and connection to something greater, highlighting how he hopes his journey can serve as a compass for others navigating their own spiritual paths.Pick up Dana's book Here!Find out more about Dana and his work here!  Honoring the Journey is hosted, produced and edited by Leslie Nease and the artwork for the show is also created by Leslie Nease.Interested in working with Leslie as your Life/Faith Transitions Coach? Check out her website and learn more about what she offers! https://www.leslieneasecoaching.comIf you'd like to be a part of the Honoring the Journey Team as a Patreon Supporter, please check it out at this link!If you are looking for community as you deconstruct or just a place to go and enjoy the company of people who are seekers, learners and who are looking to connect with the Divine without religious baggage, please join the Private Facebook Community! Leslie is very passionate about connection and community, so if that sounds like you, please come join us!

There are times when our awareness of God's presence is heightened. It brings to our attention the reality and closeness of a spiritual realm. We were created for connection with our Creator, so how do we make the most of those opportunities to draw near to God? In this sermon Brendon Walmsley explores the ancient Celtic Christian concept of ‘Thin Places'. If you enjoyed this sermon please consider subscribing. CONNECT WITH US Instagram: www.instagram.com/humeridgechurch Facebook: www.facebook.com/humeridgechurch YouTube: www.youtube.com/humeridgechurch Have you made a decision to follow Jesus? Do you have a praise point, or want to request prayer? We would love for you to get in contact with us so we can follow up with you! Please complete the contact form on our website at https://humeridge.church/contact

Chris wraps up the "Thin Places" series by revealing the human heart as the ultimate thin place.

Joel Solomon

Chris takes a look at the Upper Room and explores what makes it a thin place.

2024 Jul 7 SUN: FOURTEENTH SUNDAY IN ORDINARY TIME Ez 2: 2-5/ Ps 123: 1-2. 2. 3-4/ 2 Cor 12: 7-10/ Mk 6: 1-6

Dan Backens

Chris looks at Solomon's life to identify what led to 'thin places' for him and how this applies today.

Tina Davis

Chris unpacks Moses' journey in Exodus and his longing for God's presence to be with him.

Kerri ni Dochartaigh is the award winning author of Thin Places and Cacophany of Bone. Kerri's work delves deep into home and belonging, from her childhood in Derry during the troubles, where her family were forced to leave their home, to an adulthood of wrestlessness, unable to find a feeling of home, until she returned to the Irish landscape of her early years. We talk about intergenerational trauma, what it means to our sense of safety and belonging to have a home forcibly removed, as so many are facing in the world today, and finding home in the Irish landscape, in community, in our bodies and ritual. We also talk about creativity and caregiving, and the joys of teaching and mentoring other writers. LinksThin Places - Kerri ni DochartaighCacophony of Bone - Kerri ni DochartaighIn The Garden: Essays on Nature and Growing (Daunt Books)The Garden Against Time - Olivia LaingUnearthed - Claire RatinonUprooting - Marchelle FarrellHome Matters - Penny WincerKerri on Substack kerrindochartaigh.substack.comPenny on Substack pennywincer.substack.com

Joel Solomon

Chris begins our series on 'Thin Places' by examining Moses' encounter with God at the burning bush.

Joel Solomon

Stephanie here. I welcome Mary DeMuth again on the show, to talk about all the things we didn't get to talk about when she came on the first time. We talk about deep things – church hurt, forgiveness, compassion, multifaceted journeys deep into the heart of God. We talk about daring to start a new story when it feels too late. Mary is here to tell us, it's never too late to dream again, to trust God to write a new story out of the ashes of the old one. I love her for it. Mary loves Jesus. And really that's the most important thing about her. It's not writing or speaking or praying or mommying or any other -ing you can find. She flat out loves Him. Why? Because he has utterly, truly, completely re-storied her. See her testimony below. She has three adult children, and she's been married to Patrick for 33 years now. Mary counts those relationships as the most important people in her life. In the mid 2000s, their family helped plant a church in Southern France–a difficult, but amazing experience. In her spare (ha!) time, she loves to cook, run, garden, decorate, paint, and do interior design. She's been writing for 30+ years–half of them in obscurity. She mentored many writers during that time, and continues to do so through the Rockwall Christian Writers Group and some of her  instructional books. Since then she has written over 45 books, translated into five languages. You can see a listing of all her books on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, CBD, Lifeway and Parable. Mary pioneered a literary agency in 2022, Mary DeMuth Literary, where she shepherds writers toward traditional publishing. She currently lives in North Texas, serves in my local church alongside her husband, and she's had the privilege of speaking around the world in places like Johannesburg, Monaco, Geneva, Munich, Port-au-Prince, Nice and Florence. Although her past story is difficult, her current story leaks adventure. Not only has Mary been restored and restoried, but she longs to see the same for you. You no longer have to live haunted. She believes your new story starts today. Carl Bard wrote, “Though no one can go back and make a brand-new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand-new ending.” Paul reminds us of this important truth: “This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” (2 Corinthians 5:17 NLT). Living in retrospect is a bad idea. It's time to heal, be set free, and find the new story God has for you. Mary has experienced God turning her storm into a story, moving her from a bitter story into a bigger one. Won't you join her on the adventure? https://www.marydemuth.com/ Mary's First Person Narrative:  My story is full of deep wounds. When I was five, the cane-shaking lady next door sprayed her blackberry bushes with poison so the neighborhood kids wouldn't eat the renegade berries that spilled over her fence into the common alley. I didn't understand that as I popped a huge handful into my mouth. “You're going to die! You're going to die!” she screamed at me after seeing my purple stained cheeks. I shook and cried, flailing myself on my bed. I obviously lived, but the fear of death took root in my heart. That same year, I faced more devastation. Neighborhood boys sexually assaulted me. As a result, I felt dirty, unwanted, uncared for, and quite alone. At ten years old, my world crumbled again when my biological father died. He'd been my hero, so his sudden, tragic loss sent me reeling. My fear of death magnified. A giant hole opened up in me–a daddy-shaped hole that sat unfilled. It seemed to grow every year, and the loneliness I felt without him sometimes felt stifling. Too much. Too hard. Too much grief for a girl ten years old. I fought my emotions, tried to wrangle them into submission. But they weren't easily managed. They stayed deep inside and erupted when I didn't want them to. I spent my sixth grade year making a decision. I would be a success. I would fill my great big hole with academic prowess. So I worked hard. From that point on, I would get an A in every subject I took. But I still missed my father, and I clung to my stepdad and mom, hoping they wouldn't die, all the while fearing death would nab me. During junior high, life felt unbearable and I considered killing myself--even though I feared death. My mom's marriage to my stepdad disintegrated and I frequently broke down at school, wracked with tears. A counselor gave me a hall pass so I could leave class at any time and cry, cry, cry to my heart's discontent. I didn't know why I was on this earth. What could possibly be my purpose? Skinny (scrawny, really) and awkward, I longed for a boyfriend to fill that aching need, but few came, and when a boy would show his interest, I would freak out and run the other way. If a boy tried to kiss me, I would break up, not able to cope with the fear that he would do far more. I wanted love and affection, but my fear pushed any semblance of that away. I continued down the road to academic success, sang solos, and tried to fill my heart up with school. But the empty part of me remained. Then came hope! My freshman year of high school, a friend invited me to Young Life. Every time the speaker said, “Jesus,” my heart pounded. The leader ended one of his talks by asking, “What kind of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?” (Matthew 8:27) The question echoed through my mind throughout the summer before my sophomore year. By the time I went to a Young Life weekend camp in the fall of that next school year, my heart longed to know this Jesus. When the camp speaker spoke of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection, I knew I wanted to follow Him the rest of my life. I sat under an evergreen tree that evening and looked up into the star-pocked night, searching for the face of God. In that moment I gave Him my heart, life, past, pains, countless tears, and wounds of my childhood to the Father who would never leave me, to the God who conquered death. I've sought after him ever since. I didn't instantly heal, though. The road back to a re-storied, freedom-infused life has been long and tenuous. I've still dealt with a Daddy hole, but God is good to bring wholeness in those empty parts. I've been learning how to make Jesus my everything, letting Him fill everything, so I no longer have to chase lesser things. I wrote about that journey in Everything. The healing came when I chose to no longer be silent. When I decided it was time to tell my story, ask for prayer, and trust God to heal me. A life of secrets seldom heals. Today I'm still learning how to live free from the past, to rejoice in the great right now. What used to be a shameful, scary story is now my testimony of a re-storied life. I've written about it in my memoir, Thin Places. And I've chronicled my journey to healing after sexual abuse in Not Marked: Finding Hope and Healing after Sexual Abuse. I'm no longer the little girl who shuddered at the thought of death, post-berry-eating. I'm not the girl who experienced repeated rape at five. I'm not the daughter who lost a father to the specter of death. I'm not the teenager bent on destroying herself. I'm not the look-at-me-notice-me young adult who needed success to be her god. I'm simply Mary, loved wildly by Jesus. And my greatest desire and joy is to share that message of hope with you, to see you experience the re-storied life Jesus wants to give you. My prayer for you? That through my printed and spoken messages you'll encounter this same Jesus who can take your deepest wounds, and darkest trials, and re-story them into impossible joy. I'm a walking testimony to the healing grace of God. I embody and delight in this verse: “Remember, dear brothers and sisters, that few of you were wise in the world's eyes or powerful or wealthy when God called you. Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God” (1 Corinthians 1: 26-29, NLT). I was powerless, despised, counted as nothing and unimportant. But God saw differently. He rescued me. He knew that scared little girl would someday grow up and tell her story of redemption. I'm utterly and profoundly grateful to my dear, dear Jesus who set me free from the fear of death and filled up my heart. We invite you to check out the first episode of each of our series, and decide which one you will want to start with. Go to gospelspice.com for more, and go especially to gospelspice.com/podcast to enjoy our guests! Interested in our blog? Click here: gospelspice.com/blog Identity in the battle | Ephesians https://www.podcastics.com/episode/74762/link/ Centering on Christ | The Tabernacle experience https://www.podcastics.com/episode/94182/link/ Shades of Red | Against human oppression https://www.podcastics.com/episode/115017/link/ God's glory, our delight  https://www.podcastics.com/episode/126051/link/   Support us on Gospel Spice, PayPal and Venmo!

Door Jan-Maarten Goedhart

Enjoy this short BONUS episode of The BETWEEN Podcast featuring host, Matt Mattson telling you the secrets of the alternate universes he has discovered (and some that he learned about from people on social media). These alternate universes are "thin places." They are places where the rules of social engagement are morphed. They are places where it is incredibly easy to feel God in the presence of others. Do you know of any alternate universes like the ones described in this episode? Visit https://between.church/ to learn all about our global, digital, highly inclusive faith community. Follow us on social media, watch our weekly YouTube videos, and become a part of our community. Be sure to sign up for our mailing list.

It's the last show of the week and the first day of summer! Tonight we are going to open the lines on a number of topics from a mix of news. Top of the list is all of the deliberating that is being done over new selective service requirements, including the involuntary participation of American women. Second is a very chilled out topic on "Thin Places" on earth where the divide between this world and the next begins to dissolve. I hope to get a lot of great calls from the audience tonight. Proudly Sponsored By: Blue Monster Prep: An Online Superstore for Emergency Preparedness Gear (Storable Food, Water, Filters, Radios, MEDICAL SUPPLIES, and so much more). Use code 'FRANKLY' for Free Shipping on every purchase you make @ https://bluemonsterprep.com/ SUPPORT Quite Frankly: Official Merch: https://tinyurl.com/f3kbkr4s Official Coffee: https://tinyurl.com/2p9m8ndb Sponsor through QFTV: https://www.quitefrankly.tv/sponsor SubscribeStar: https://www.subscribestar.com/quitefrankly One-Time Tip: http://www.paypal.me/QuiteFranklyLive Sign up for the Free Mailing List: https://bit.ly/3frUdOj Send Crypto: BTC: 1EafWUDPHY6y6HQNBjZ4kLWzQJFnE5k9PK LTC: LRs6my7scMxpTD5j7i8WkgBgxpbjXABYXX ETH: 0x80cd26f708815003F11Bd99310a47069320641fC FULL Episodes On Demand: Spotify: https://spoti.fi/301gcES iTunes: http://apple.co/2dMURMq Amazon: https://amzn.to/3afgEXZ SoundCloud: http://bit.ly/2dTMD13 Google Play: https://bit.ly/2SMi1SF BitChute: https://bit.ly/2vNSMFq Rumble: https://bit.ly/31h2HUg Streaming Live On: QuiteFrankly.tv (Powered by Foxhole) DLive: https://bit.ly/2In9ipw Rokfin: https://bit.ly/3rjrh4q Twitch: https://bit.ly/2TGAeB6 YouTube: https://bit.ly/2exPzj4 Rumble: https://bit.ly/31h2HUg How Else to Find Us: Official WebSite: http://www.QuiteFrankly.tv Official Forum: https://bit.ly/3SToJFJ Official Telegram: https://t.me/quitefranklytv GUILDED Hangout: https://bit.ly/3SmpV4G Twitter: @QuiteFranklyTV Gab: @QuiteFrankly Truth Social: @QuiteFrankly GETTR: @QuiteFrankly MINDS: @QuiteFrankly

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/XKwF1N--a00For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as lay leaders at Lakepointe Church, a megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area pastored by Josh Howerton. But as concerns about Howerton grew, Patrick and Mary found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now, they're dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called “church refugees” feel. In this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Mary DeMuth joins host Julie Roys to talk about navigating church bewilderment. This is a condition more and more Christians are experiencing today, as scandal and corruption are increasingly seeping into the church. And if you caught the previous TRR podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lakepointe Church. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How much is okay to say, and what is gossip? How do you find another church home when you're dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? These are crucial questions, which Mary—an internationally known author and a repeat speaker at our Restore Conference—admits she is wrestling with. And, as is so characteristic of Mary, she engages these questions with grace, wisdom, and a passion for truth and justice. Sadly, many churches have created a culture where it's not okay to talk about leaving a toxic church. But as Mary explains in this podcast, the church won't get better until we talk about it. Believers must begin to evaluate and process the toxicity in churches—and how we can truly become the Body of Christ. Mary has recently developed a Church Hurt Checklist to help people understand their situation and begin to process and articulate it. Download it free at marydemuth.com/churchhurt Guests Mary DeMuth Mary DeMuth is an international speaker, podcaster, and author of over 40 books, fiction and nonfiction, including The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible and We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis. Mary lives in Texas with her husband of 30+ years and is mom to three adult children. Learn more at MaryDeMuth.com. Show Transcript Julie Roys: For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as leaders at a megachurch in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But as concerns about the current pastor grew, they found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now they’re dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called church refugees feel. Julie Roys: Welcome to The Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today, Mary DeMuth joins me to talk about navigating church bewilderment. Sadly, this is an issue many Christians are dealing with, as abuse, scandal, and corruption increasingly seem to be seeping into the church. Julie Roys: And if you caught our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lake Point Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, where Josh Howerton is Pastor. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. And if you missed our prior podcast, it was a real eye-opener and I encourage you to go back and listen to that. Julie Roys: Today’s podcast is a sequel to my podcast with Amanda, but rather than exposing the issues at Lake Point today, Mary is going to be discussing the aftermath of leaving. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How do you know how much is okay to say? And what is gossip? And how do you find another church home when you’re dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? Julie Roys: These are crucial questions and ones that I know many of you are dealing with today. And so I’m so looking forward to diving into this topic with Mary DeMuth. But first I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Talbot Seminary and Marquardt of Barrington. Julie Roys: Are you passionate about impacting the world so it reflects biblical ideals of justice? The Talbot School of Theology Doctor of Ministry program is launching a new track exploring the theological, social, and practical dimensions of biblical justice today. The program equips students with the knowledge, skills, and spiritual foundation needed to address social issues with wisdom and compassion. Julie Roys: Justice has become a key issue in our culture, but more importantly, it’s an issue that’s close to God’s heart. While it’s clear the Bible calls God’s people to pursue justice, we must be guided by His Word within that pursuit. Talbot has created this track to do just that. As part of this program, you’ll examine issues such as trafficking, race, immigration, and poverty. Julie Roys: And I’ll be teaching a session as well, focusing on the right use of power in our churches so we can protect the vulnerable, rather than harm them. So join me and a community of like-minded scholars committed to social change and ethical leadership. Apply now at TALBOT.EDU/DMIN. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and quality. That's because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys: Again, joining me is Christian author and podcaster, Mary DeMuth, and many of Mary from her excellent books like We Too: Discussing the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the Church, and also her memoir, Thin Places. Mary also was a guest speaker at our last Restore Conference in 2022, and she’ll be speaking again at our Restore Conference in Phoenix in February in 2025. So we’re super looking forward to that. Julie Roys: But she joins me now to talk about something that’s been a very painful process for both her and Patrick, and that is leaving her church of 23 years, Lake Point Church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So Mary, Thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know has been a really difficult journey. Mary DeMuth: Thanks. I certainly prayed about this conversation and what I’ve noticed in this space is that a lot of people in the middle of it. are not articulating how they’re feeling because there’s this general pressure from churches that you leave that you aren’t supposed to say anything. And I think there’s a difference between, and we’ll talk about this, I’m sure, throughout this episode, but there’s a difference between leaving quietly and running around gossiping about things. Certainly, those are two different things. Mary DeMuth: But I think what we’ve done is we’ve created a culture of silence; you can’t talk about it and literally we won’t get better unless we do talk about it. So that’s one reason why I am having this conversation today, because this is not a completed story. This is a messy story. I’m in the middle of it. Mary DeMuth: I am heartbroken, and I don’t have all the answers. But I wanted to give word to those of you that may be in that same space, that may be hurting and don’t have words to say about it. And maybe I can articulate some of those things for you. Julie Roys: And I so appreciate that. I find that people often are willing to talk about experiences years after the fact, when they’ve worked it all out and they can tie it all up in a neat bow and we can all go, Oh, that’s so nice. And here’s three ways that you can apply this message. But I knew you were going through a really painful thing that it was messy. You’ve been tweeting about it, or I should say posting on X. Julie Roys: You’ve been very open and honest with your pain. And I really appreciate that. And I love the topic. You actually gave me the title for this, about navigating church bewilderment. And I love that word bewilderment because I feel like it really captures the confusion, the real disillusionment, and then the grief and the pain. Julie Roys: All of these things bound up in one. And so we’re going to get to all that and unpack all of that. But I think to understand the depth of it for you and for Patrick, first I have to understand how deeply vested you were in this church. So talk about what this church has meant to you over more than two decades and the roles that you played in it and the community that you had. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we’ve been there for 23 years, and we immediately started serving the moment we landed there. And we also were the first non-IMB, it was an SBC church at the time, and we were the first non-IMB missionaries to be sent out from Lake Point. Julie Roys: Define IMB for those who . Mary DeMuth: Yes. International mission board. So typically SBC churches send, they don’t really send their own missionaries. They sponsor IMB because all the money comes out of the SBC into this fund for the International Mission Board. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted to be actually supported because we believed that people who paid prayed. And so we were not IMB, but Lake Point sent us out. So we were church planters in the South of France for a couple of years. And honestly the leadership there at our church, even though we weren’t going through our church, they were the ones that helped us through a really untenable situation. And our loyalty to that church was because they put us back together when we got back from the field.. Mary DeMuth: So much pouring in and so much love. And so we have been a life group leader for 20 of the 23 years. The only three years we weren’t was when we were in France, planting a church. And then I have run a couple of conferences, interestingly enough, called the Re-story Conference, which was very similar sounding to the Restore Conference. Mary DeMuth: And I also recorded a Life Way study at Lake Point for an audience. And then my husband was an elder at the church for five years. And so we have led mission teams all over the world for Lake Point. We have definitely been in the upper levels of volunteer leadership all these years and have enjoyed a lot of conviviality and fellowship. Mary DeMuth: And I never never. I always bragged about my church. It never crossed my mind that there would be a day that I wasn’t at that church anymore. And so as of December of 2023, we are away from there and making our way into a new space. Julie Roys: And I’ve talked about this on this podcast, but we’re in a house church with, some of the folks in our house church were at their previous church for over 30 years, and the amount of pain and loss and especially when you’re, when you’re our age, early 40s. Julie Roys: That’s it. It’s early 40s. No, when you’re a little bit older and later in life and to be at this point where you’re starting over is not at all where you expected to be, and it’s pretty tough to be there. You retain some of the friendships, but everything’s changed. And it just makes for a really really difficult road that you never planned to be on. Julie Roys: Your church; and this is a lot of the reason behind you leaving, changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Stephen Stroop was your previous pastor. And in 2019, I believe Josh Howerton came in. Your husband actually was on the elder board that approved him, right? Mary DeMuth: Yes. Yes. And we’ve had to work through that as you can imagine, because that’s painful to think about. And just to expand a little bit about the why is the basic reasons why we left. There’s a lot of things. As an author, as a published author and as a speaker, the plagiarism was just grating on me and I couldn’t stomach it, but that wasn’t the main reason. Mary DeMuth: Although it’s still very problematic to me. What’s more problematic is that they don’t think it’s a big deal and they don’t see it as sin, and I just disagree. But the two things that we, the two main things that caused us to walk away, one was we were told by leadership, by upper-level leadership, that there was no place for us to serve. Mary DeMuth: And that was really, that was about a year ago. And so it took us about a year to make that decision. Like we were still serving in our life group, but there were things that God has put in us as church planters. And as me, as an author and an advocate that we have a lot that we would love to be able to offer, and to have that cut off when we feel like we’re in the prime of service right now. We weren’t asking to be paid. This is all volunteer, but we were told we couldn’t. Mary DeMuth: And then the second thing that was kind of the straw was all of the crude words and the misogynistic statements that started around 2022 almost every sermon. And as an advocate for sexual abuse victims and as an advocate for women, I could no longer be associated with that church because it just didn’t, I just couldn’t be associated with it. Mary DeMuth: I have stood in front of the Southern Baptist Convention, and I have spoken and advocated, and I have been chewed up and spit out for it. And if I’m going to a church that is marginalizing women, it does not make sense. And so no place for us to serve, big, huge problem. And then I just couldn’t be connected with a church that had that kind of reputation. Julie Roys: Those reasons are huge. and make an awful lot of sense. The plagiarism as you said, the crude remarks, the misogynistic remarks. And for a lot of folks, if you’re like, what are they talking about? I do encourage you to go back and listen to our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, where we went over a lot of these things that Mary’s talking about that have happened in her church. Julie Roys: I’m sure there’s people listening, and they’re like, okay, that sounds really, really awful. But how do you know when you hit that tipping point? Because I remember talking to you a couple of years ago and me going, Hey, is this really your pastor? I’m seeing some stuff. How is this your pastor? And you’re like we’re serving, and we love our life group. I get it. I totally, totally get it. But how did you and Patrick, how did you get to the point where you’re like, this is the tipping point, no more? Mary DeMuth: We decided we went into this together, so we decided that we both had to have the same decision. We weren’t going to have one of us leave and one not leave. We were going to do this together. So that took a year of a lot of conversations. And we saw those red flags when you saw them. So we’ve seen them, but as you mentioned, the model of Lake Point used to be, it seems to be shifting now, but it used to be church within a church. And so your life group was really basically what you’re doing, Julie. It’s a small gathering of people where there is someone who teaches, and there’s someone who’s the missions coordinator. And there’s someone who, it’s that’s how, like your church is that group. And so we felt a deep, strong connection to our group. And we felt like we were the pastors of that church within a church. Mary DeMuth: The model has shifted. And I don’t know, it has never been articulated publicly, but it seems from the exterior looking in that it’s more becoming a franchise model, which is where you create this mother church, and it can be duplicated like MacDonald’s in any context. Therefore they may not have that idea that it is church within a church anymore. It has to be something replicatable on all other campuses. And so we began to see this shifting of, this is no longer church within a church, which is really what kept us there. We had people we were serving. And then honestly, I just couldn’t stomach sermons anymore. I couldn’t walk into that building anymore. Mary DeMuth: And as everything became a spectacle the longer we were there, it was all about Sunday morning and the spectacle that it had become like a circus, and I could not find Jesus there. And I would sit in the audience. We had beautifully. articulated and performed auto-tuned worship. It was beautiful. It sounded amazing. There was a lot of rah-rah-rah. There was a lot of energy and it felt like Ichabod to me, like to me as a Christ follower, a mature Christ follower of many years, I couldn’t feel the presence of the Lord anymore. And for me, that’s what is the point of going to a church, if that has happened to you? Mary DeMuth: I’m not saying that other people aren’t experiencing the Lord there. I’m not saying that other people aren’t becoming Christians there. They are. And that’s probably the most problematic part of this whole thing is that they are easily able to point to numbers that are flowing in through the front door, ignoring all of us that have left out the back door. Mary DeMuth: And because it is successful, therefore they can just call me names and malign me or people like Amanda and others, and they can dismiss us because look what God is doing. Julie Roys: And Amanda talked about that same thing about the church within a church and even how each of the churches had different women’s ministries. Julie Roys: And I think about it, it was so personal because people are different and they all had different campuses, have different makeup, they have different cultures and now, this franchise model where you go in, you order a Big Mac, and you get a Big Mac. That’s what you’re used to, right? Julie Roys: But is it? And probably our conversation today, we probably don’t have enough time to really delve into this, but this is something I have been thinking more and more about, is it even church if you have a place where it, maybe a Christian organization and maybe a Christian organization that blesses a lot of people but is it a church where you say to members of the body, we don’t need you, we don’t need your gift, and you can’t serve here? If we have a pastor who doesn’t even know people’s names, if we don’t have that kind of shepherding, is it even a church anymore? Mary DeMuth: I’ll back up before I answer that in that I’ve, been overseas and, anyone that’s been overseas and gone to a McDonald’s overseas knows they have different categories. So even franchises like McDonald’s in France has McWine, right? Or McVine. McDonald’s even understands contextualizing the hamburger to the person, and to the people. So that’s an odd thing for me that there would be this idea that you can just, this is the model and we’re superimposing it on all sorts of different economic people and people in different cultures, and we’re just gonna superimpose it there, which seems super weird to me. Mary DeMuth:  On the, is this a church? We have to just go back to simplicity, which is, are we celebrating the Lord’s Supper? Are there sacraments there? Is the word of God being delivered and is it? Mary DeMuth: And then deeper than that, are  disciples being made? because there’s a big, huge difference between converts who hear something. And I think about the parable of the soils, they hear it, they receive it with joy, they have no root and then they walk away. We’re not teaching a theology of suffering in most of these bigger churches for sure. Mary DeMuth: But I think we need to remember that a church is supposed to be a place of koinonia, a place of fellowship, a place where we are iron sharpening iron, and a place of discipleship where people are not just converted, but they are just doing the slow work of people pouring into each other’s lives. That’s discipleship. That’s not a top-down model. That’s not pastor to congregation. That’s person to person. And when a church gets so big for its britches these things can fall through the cracks. Mary DeMuth: Now, Lake Point had done a very good job of doing that discipleship piece through their vehicle of a life group. But as things have shifted, we’re seeing a lot less of that. And again, I haven’t been there for six months, so they could be doing it. I don’t know, but just from my perspective today that’s something that’s been difficult to see. Julie Roys: You alluded to this earlier, this idea of leaving well. It’s hard to leave well and even to define what leaving well is. I will say there was one church that my husband and I ended up leaving and it was over a theological disagreement that we just felt we couldn’t bend on. And at the same time, we felt really pulled to another church. They actually had us come up and explain why we were leaving and gathered around us and prayed for us. Julie Roys: That was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen where it was just like, differences and God makes calling you here. We want to bless you as you go. And you’ve met a lot to this church and we mean a lot to each other and let’s just bless each other. It was so beautiful, and I don’t know why this can’t happen more. But usually it’s just a lot of pain and a lot of heartache And when you talk about leaving well, what it usually means to a lot of people, and I’ve heard even Christian leaders talk about this. When you leave well, you just keep your stuff to yourself. Julie Roys: The issues that you had, you suck them under, and you don’t speak about it. And honestly, I think that’s part of our problem in the church is that we don’t talk about our problems. And so we wait till they become a major scandal or crisis. And then they really blow up. And we allow abusive pastors just kind of reign; to continue doing what they’re doing. Julie Roys: So talk about this concept of leaving well. Obviously, you’ve chosen to speak rather boldly about what happened there. I think really from a heart of love and concern for both the church and the people there, not just to vent how you’re feeling. But talk about that and how you’ve come to the decision you have about that. Mary DeMuth: First, I’ll say there’s been kind of  an unholy silence. We were pretty high up and we have not been followed up with, and the very few times we were invited into those spaces, it was difficult. So there is that. I would encourage church leaders to do what your former church did, because I think there’s a lot to be learned. Mary DeMuth: I also need to say that we didn’t leave from a position of canceling and of immaturity. There’s one thing if you’re like a church hopper and you’re like, just running around with a consumeristic mindset like, what do I get in this for me? A lot of people that are leaving churches are being accused of being that. But the ones that I know that have left this church are mature, deep believers in Christ who are seeing so many red flags. Mary DeMuth: And the reason I articulated it was because I was running into people who were brokenhearted and didn’t have words for it. And somehow through the grace of God and through his power and his ability, I was able to say the things that people were feeling so that they would no longer feel alone. I would rather have been silent if the Lord hadn’t put his hand on me. Mary DeMuth: I would rather grieve this alone and quietly, but I have seen a lot of really good conversation and ministry happen because of this. I’m not out to harm the reputation of the church. I will never tell someone to leave a church unless they’re being abused, obviously, that’s their own decision. Mary DeMuth: They have the autonomy to make that decision between them and God. But I do want to be a listening ear and an empath for those who are bewildered at the church they’re going to that no longer looks like the church they used to go to. Julie Roys: So tell me what is gossip because this is what is, this is the word, I’ve gotten called this myriads and myriads of times. But what is gossip? And clearly you don’t believe this falls into that category. Why? Mary DeMuth: It’s not gossip to share your emotions about how you’re reacting to an abuse. That is actually being a lot like Paul. And if you look at the letters throughout the epistles in particular, you see Paul saying things about churches. Mary DeMuth: And so if we’re going to talk about gossip, we’d have to call him a gossip because he was constantly calling out, Hey, listen, those Judaizers, they don’t really have it right. Oh, listen, this Gnosticism isn’t good. And that guy’s having sex with his mother-in-law. These kinds of things are, he’s very clear. Mary DeMuth: These are not untrue things he’s saying. These are actually true statements. And underneath all of that is a desire for the church to be the body of Christ and to be holy. It’s not slander because it’s telling the truth. And it’s always with a desire to see God do good work in the local church. And if she is straying, if you love her, you will say something about it. Mary DeMuth: Now there’s a manner in which you can do that. You can be really caustic. You can speak the truth without love, but we are called to speak the truth with love. And I believe that we have conflagrated speaking the truth in love with gossip, and those are two different things. Gossip intends to harm the reputation of another or of an entity; telling the truth in love tries to help that institution have a mirror and see what’s going on. Julie Roys: The motive is really important, although I always get frustrated when people try to judge other people’s motives because the truth is, you don’t know somebody else’s heart. And that’s something I never do. I’ll talk about actions, but I don’t know someone’s heart. Only God knows the heart. But I know that’s something I constantly check myself about is my desire for repentance? is my desire to see these leaders repent? 100 percent, and I know you well enough to know that you would be absolutely thrilled and would extend grace if the leaders who have hurt you so deeply would repent of their sin and would change their ways. I know that and I’m sure you pray for that, that you and Patrick are praying right now for that. Am I right? Mary DeMuth: Absolutely. That is  underneath all of this, is just a desire to see the local church healthy and to see her lift up the name of Jesus. And we also just want to again put up a mirror of is this representing the kingdom of God or is this representing something else? And that’s what we were coming to find. Patrick and I both were. The kingdom’s upside down. It’s counterintuitive. It’s the least is the most. And the most is the least. It’s not about building platforms. It’s not about being the winner. It’s not about Christian nationalism. It’s none of these. I don’t even like those two words together. Mary DeMuth: It’s not about power. Jesus willingly laid down his power and he considered equality with God, not something to be grasped. He made himself nothing. And when I see a lot of these big churches and not all of them, but a lot of them where it is very male leader centric celebrity driven. And really about, we want to be the coolest people with the biggest numbers. Mary DeMuth: I don’t get it. They’ll point to Acts chapter two. They’ll talk about how many were added to the kingdom on that day. They’ll call that a mega church. It was not a mega church. People were still meeting in homes. So we just have to be careful. I’m not against mega churches. I actually think that there’s a place for them. Mary DeMuth: Over the years, they we have had the benefit of a megachurch that can go into a community and say, oh, you need a church building, here you go. Like they can do some things that a littler church can’t do. So I’m not against the megachurch, but there is something fallible in the model, the consumeristic model, that is causing all of this anguish. Julie Roys: And I’d say the leadership model. Because we have imported a leadership model that’s of the world and done the exact opposite of what Jesus said, don’t be like the Gentiles who lorded over them, but instead, whoever wants to be first should be last, whoever wants to be greatest should be least. Julie Roys: It is the upside-down kingdom, and we’ve forgotten that. We’ve become just like the world, and we count our success the same way as the world. And we’ve seen this going, it’s been going on a very long time, and I think the megachurches get a lot of the criticism because they’ve. been kind of doing it in spades in an awful lot of them and then exporting these values to all the smaller churches who are wannabes, right? Julie Roys: So you even have smaller churches that are trying to do the exact same thing and they think it’s right because it’s successful very much in the American model of success, which is bigger and better. Before we go forward, there is something I do want to ask you, though, and I would be remiss if I didn’t. What was it about what you and Patrick that you were doing that they didn’t want you serving? Mary DeMuth: I don’t know. They just didn’t want us. That’s what’s been hard is, it’s a speculative, I just don’t know. And I’m willing to be talked to about those things, of course. Like if they feel like something that we’re not godly enough or we’re, or I’m too public or whatever it is, I don’t know. Mary DeMuth: But I do know this, I do know this. When we were told this, what we learned was that they had been morphing from a church that had a lot of lay leaders to a higher control situation where only people who are employed by the church could be in charge of ministries. And so, you can control that. If you can control someone's salary, you can control the whole thing. Mary DeMuth: And so we were just told there is no place for you because we’re not on staff. So that’s probably my guess at a reason is that we were not controllable. And the statement made to us is I’ve got 30 other people just like you that are well trained and that have gone, my husband went to seminary, and all that, but will never use them. We will never use them. And basically, you just need to get over it. You will never be used. Julie Roys:  What a waste of resources. Unbelievable. The kingdom is not so well resourced that we don’t need every single person; that God didn’t give gifts every single one of them to be used. Julie Roys: But I will say, I’ve seen this happen before. And the beautiful thing is, people get dispersed, people like yourself and like Patrick, too often churches that are very needy very welcoming. Like Oh, thank God. It’s like Christmas come early, come to Moots, come to our church. And I’m sure you’re experiencing that because I can’t imagine not wanting you and Patrick at my church. It’s just shocking to me. But yeah, that is a benefit of it. It’s the church in Jerusalem getting persecuted. Then they went to the ends of the earth, and we can do that. Julie Roys: One of the things that I’ve seen be a silver lining, if you can call it that, in these sorts of situations is you’re a church refugee, but there’s a lot of other ones out there, too. And there can be a great deal of deep fellowship. And, in many ways, that’s what RESTORE is. It’s a gathering of a lot of not just refugees, a lot of helpers and pastors and people who are allies who just want to know more. But. There’s an awful lot of us there that have been hurt by the church, and there’s just this beautiful, sweet fellowship. Julie Roys: And my understanding is, and Amanda alluded to it in our last podcast, that you guys have served as pastors to these refugees. Would you talk about that sweet group that you were able to love on and pastor through this and just help them? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we definitely were praying, and we just kept coming upon people. And in particular, people who had been employed but had been harshly fired in very traumatic ways. And we just felt so deeply. I mean for us, it’s sad and we were highly involved and it’s sad, but it wasn’t our job. And so we just had this empathy for those folks. And so we gathered as much as we knew, we put the word out quietly. Mary DeMuth: We gathered people for several weeks and met with them. And these were people that some were still there, and some were not, and some were walking away from Jesus. It was just the whole gamut of a wide variety of people in a lot of pain. And what we wanted to do was just to help them know our first session was called, You are not crazy. We just wanted them to know. that what they had seen and experienced was real and validated by the rest of us. And then we’ve just been walking through Chuck DeGroat's information about narcissism in the church and narcissistic church systems. And then talking about what is a safe person and what is a safe system. And then praying and crying and grieving and giving people the space that they are not allowed to have to get out all this junk that’s inside of us because it’s been so, so painful. Julie Roys: And I want to get to the safe system and the safe person, because I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening who would like that information as well. Julie Roys: But let’s talk about the feelings first, because when this happens, there is. Again, we talked about bewilderment. There’s just this mix of negative emotions that you don’t know what to do with a lot of times. One is anger and anger in the church has been one of these emotions that we just don’t deal with very well. And I’ve said this numerous times, but this is one that we’ll get. We’ll get thrown back in my face and people say, you sound like you’re angry and I’m like, darn I’m angry. Why aren’t you angry? Why wouldn’t we be angry when these awful things are happening in the church? And yet again, as a Christian, we feel guilty when we’re angry. So how have you dealt with your own anger, and helped others who are dealing with similar anger? Mary DeMuth: The first thing that we did was we process outside of the circle of the church because we needed to know if we were going crazy. Is this normal? Are these things that we’re saying? Is it a big deal? Or are we just being babies? We definitely did that. And then it’s been the prayer of let this anger fuel something beautiful, because I do believe that great movements of God happen because there’s injustice and we are angry at the injustice. Mary DeMuth: I often joke that I write a book when I’m angry, so I must be a pretty angry person at book 52. There’s injustice in this world and our God is righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. When we do the work of making note of people who are being hurt and oppressed and harmed, we are doing the Lord’s work. And so that anger can be a fuel to doing positive things Mary DeMuth:. Now, I also just want to say, it’s okay to be angry. I’m angry and I have been angry and I’m processing that with friends and I’m processing it with my husband and with the Lord. Rightfully so, because I see so many people, to use Mark Driscoll’s frustrating phraseology, the people behind the bus. I’m meeting so many people behind the bus that are getting the bus is backing up over the people. Because not only cause when if you say anything, if you dare to say anything, you will get run over again and again, you will be accused of all sorts of things when really your desire is to see people set free and to open the eyes of people that are being harmed so that they no longer have to be in that system anymore. Julie Roys: And what a great deal of fear these leaders must feel. to behave that way that you have to annihilate people who say anything negative. I’ve gotten quite comfortable with people saying negative things. I just want to make sure if there’s truth in it, that I take it to heart. It’s okay, but in the end of the day, you’ve got to be okay with who you are before your Lord. And those closest to you who will tell you the truth when you’re veering off. That desire to control that desire that you have to shut down negative communication. I can’t imagine living in that much fear that you constantly are doing that. And yet that’s what we see. Julie Roys: And that whole thing about feeling like you’re crazy. So much of that’s because you’ve been told you’re crazy. You’ve been told that because that’s the gaslighting that happens when you say there’s a problem. No, there is no problem. You’re the problem. Mary DeMuth: It’s back to the emperor with no clothes. We all see the naked emperor and only a little kid says he’s not wearing any clothes. And we’re like Oh, yeah, but there’s this like kind of delusional thing or czarist Russia, the Potemkin village. If you know what that is, it was a village that was just set up like a movie set so that when the czar went by he could see that this Potemkin’s village was actually a really cool place, but you open the door, you walk through, it’s just mud and dirt on the other side and some horses grazing in a field. Church is not a Potemkin village. It should never be. It should not be a facade that we are trying to hold up by shaming people who say negative things. The church is a living, breathing organization. It is the body of Christ. Mary DeMuth: God does not need to be defended. He can do just fine by himself. And this fear that you talk about is very real because it’s about human empire. Whenever we build our Roman empire on our cult of personality and our particular views about things and not on the word of God and not on studying the word of God, then we will be threatened by anyone who says anything negative because that will eat away at the foundation of our FACO empire. Julie Roys: Very well said. That is very well said. Let’s talk about grief. And I was reminded of the Kubler Ross Stages of grief. And let me see. Those are denial, which is often where we start, right? When things go wrong, anger, the bargaining we can work this out somehow, right? Depression and sink into that deep depression. This is just so sad. And then there’s acceptance, which is that last one. And it’s not like these are completely linear because what I found is you go through, oh, I’ve worked through to acceptance. No, I haven’t. I’m back at anger again. Julie Roys: Something will happen. it'll put you right back there. So it’s not completely linear, but how have you moved toward acceptance? What does acceptance look like? And maybe that’s a long way off but talk about where you’re at in that whole process. Mary DeMuth: I think a lot of people are in this space. There’s a lot of loyal people and that’s where the bargaining comes in. And a lot of the people I’ve talked to are like, yeah, I never go to that church anymore, like to the services, but I’m here because of my small group and they’re my church. There’s this, that we were in that space for a really long time. We can make this work. This is our church, not that other part is not the church, but it’s all together. Mary DeMuth: So once we got to the decision and made the decision, then the depression set in for sure. And I think I’m still there working my way through it of thinking that I was going to be there the rest of my life. As a person who grew up in a really difficult home and met Jesus at 15 years old, the church became my family. My family was not my family. And the church was the one place where I could go to be loved, to be healed, to be worked, just to work through my salvation with fear and trembling. And so, to walk away from something that you’ve been at the most we’ve ever been at a church is 23. This is the longest we’ve ever been somewhere to walk away from. It felt like I lost my limb. I lost my family, my father’s in the faith, my mother’s in the faith, my aunts, and my uncles in the faith. And then to be villainized for just having eyes to see what the heck is going on, has been devastating, devastating. So I’m still in the grief phase and I don’t cry much about it because I’ve sometimes just shoved it way down deep because I did not ever expect that I was going to have to leave a place I loved so much. Julie Roys: There’s a, I think it’s a short story and I should know the name of it, but it’s about someone, a man who goes to a cemetery and he sees a woman just weeping and weeping, and he’s there to visit his partner who had died. I don’t think he had actually married her. But he realizes in that moment that the person who’s grieving, who’s crying and just sobbing is the richer person. Because they had loved deeply and he had never loved that deeply. And I’ve thought about that, I lost my mother over 20 years ago and she was so special and I never like, I hear some people talk about their mothers, and how difficult or what I never felt that way. My mother was just a joy, but it was so hard to lose her, but it was hard because I loved her so much. Julie Roys: And I think, I’m so grateful for you that you did have that church experience where you were loved so deeply, where you loved deeply, and I’ve got to believe that God will provide that family again. It will be different. And I know I just feel so blessed by our church family that we found in this wasteland or out of the wasteland. Julie Roys: But it’s been really, really special because I don’t have to explain anything to these people. They understand the world I work in. They understand. It’s just, it’s really been a gift. And I think it’s been a gift too. And I know you have adult children. I’m glad I had these adult children because they’re a blessing in ways that they couldn’t be and a support in ways that they couldn’t be when they were younger, when we had to be everything to them. Julie Roys: And I’m glad I’m not dealing with, and I know a lot of people are,  is what do we do for our kids now? And then there’s that pressure to find something for your children right away. And that makes it really hard. But as believers, we are taught, Hebrews 10:25, let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but all the more as the day of the Lord approaches, let us encourage each other and all the more as the day approaches. I have found sometimes that can be used as a club against people who are just grieving, and they’re dealing with a great deal of betrayal trauma at this point. Julie Roys: And now we’re going to hit them over the head and say, you better be in church on Sunday. When they walk into a church and it just triggers, it’s a trigger for them. I believe in fellowship. I believe in the church. I love the church, but I am concerned about the process of helping people reengage after they’ve been wounded so profoundly. Julie Roys: So speak to this process of finding a new church home, or even having the freedom for a period of time to say, I don’t know. I don’t know that I can do that right now. Obviously, there is a danger if we’re out of fellowship for too long. But speak to that person who right now is outside of fellowship and really afraid to reengage with it. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. First, you’re super normal. And if you’ve been wounded in a terrible community, the stakes are pretty high, when you walk in, especially if you’re triggered or traumatized by walking into a building. I don’t know that I could walk into a big church right now. Like I just don’t think I could, I think I would have a hard time with that. Mary DeMuth: So for us, how we went about it and everyone’s going to be different, we did want to land somewhere because we just feel like we’re in that stage of, we want to serve the church. And so for our little parameters, and I think it’ll be different for every person. Ours was, it needs to be local. And we’re hoping that there will be people there already that we’re friends with. Mary DeMuth: And since we’re in a little town, right? So there’s, 1 billion churches and little towns in Texas, right? So we had plenty to choose from so many, and we didn’t even get to all of them, but that was our parameter in choosing a home. In fact, we just officially joined a church yesterday. So it did take some time to get to that place. But I just want to let you know that it’s normal to be scared, to be triggered, to be in pain. Mary DeMuth: Don’t let it stay there. You are wounded in a negative community and the Lord is very frustrating and he asks you to be healed in good community. That’s hard. But a relational wound requires a relational cure, and that’s one reason why Patrick and I have been pouring into people who are hurt because we want to be that safer relationship for people to be falling apart or hurting or ask really blunt questions and be really ticked off. Because I believe people are healed in community when they’re wounded in community. Julie Roys: 100%. And I know when I came through just so much grief and pain and church hurt. I know a lot of people go to therapy and I’m not against therapy, but I was like, I don’t need to talk to this about this with a counselor. It’s just not like that. I need to be in a community where there’s love. I need to see beauty in people like again. And even though I’m afraid to be vulnerable on some levels at the same time, I’m compelled to be vulnerable because I know until you do that, you can’t heal. Mary DeMuth: When we met with the person who became our pastor and there’s a multiplicity of pastors in this particular denomination, but we sat across from him and we told him our story and he just listened, and he dignified the story. And then he said this, he said, we just want to love you. And I just immediately just, I was like, what? you don’t want to use me? Cause we’ve been in leadership positions in the church for so long, our whole adult lives we’ve been in those positions and for him to say, we just want to love you. And that was foreign to me, but that was the beginning of that healing journey. Julie Roys: I had a pastor at one of the churches we visited when we were in this search process. And it was at a very large church I would say it’s probably a megachurch, and we sat across from him and he said a very similar thing. It was really wonderful. And he said, “I think you guys have been wounded deeply, and you need a place to heal. And we do just want to love you. What was interesting is when I came back to him with a follow up email, because part of me is like wait, this is a megachurch. Am I insane? Julie Roys: I’m just like looking at it and being like,  I don’t think this is at all what I want. And then I emailed him. I said, we want a pastor. Would you be able to pastor us? And then he basically declined as nicely as he could; like I’d love to be, but I can’t and I’m like I don’t need a small group leader to try and pastor me. I was just kind of like of course, you can’t because you have the corporation to run. And so that is again a fundamental issue that I do have with the mega church. Julie Roys: One thing I found and I see it here, because I don’t know how many people in the Chicago area who have left Willow Creek and ended up at Harvest. They’re like, wow, di I know how to pick them! They’re going from something that’s become familiar. And if you became a believer at Willow, then that big model, that big service, whiz bang entertaining sermon or inspirational talk, whatever you want to call it. Julie Roys: Although I’ll say at Harvest, he preached he discipled people. I know a lot of people from Harvest that were discipled shockingly by a really depraved pastor. But I see them going from what they’re used to. And it’s almost like when I see people who grew up in a dysfunctional home and thank God you didn’t do this, but they often then replicate that in their own home, or they’re attracted to that same kind of dysfunction in the next home. Julie Roys: And I’ve seen it with churches and I’m just like, why are you going to the same model of church that you just left? And I see that there’s this thought in their head that it’s just the one bad apple. That’s all it is. It’s the one bad apple, but basically there’s nothing wrong with the system. Julie Roys: I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the system. So speak to that. Do you think, I know you’ve got some pretty strong opinions now about celebrity megachurches, even though you said some megachurches we’ve seen work. Do you have some thoughts about the model of church and what makes a safe church? Mary DeMuth: Yes. So many thoughts. I’ll start with a story. In the early two thousand, I went to my first Christian writers conference before I was published and on the airplane on the way there, my story flashed before my eyes and I said, Lord I’ve withstood a lot of trials. Like I’ve gone through a lot of trials. Mary DeMuth: And he said clearly to me, you have withstood many trials, but will you withstand the trial of notoriety? And that has stayed in my mind all these years because fame emaciates, fame makes you think that you’re better than other people and that people exist to serve you rather than you equipping the saints for the work of service. Mary DeMuth: And when the systems are in a place, typically what happens is the ego takes over. There’s something deep within the narcissistic system. And in the narcissistic pastor, they have this wound that they can’t fill except by acclaim. And then it’s like a drug, so they have to keep being acclaimed. They cannot have negative things said about them. Mary DeMuth: Therefore, the next thing they’ll do is they will dismantle the elder board, or they will significantly reduce the influence of the elder board that exists or completely dismantle it altogether. They will gather yes-men around themselves who will only say positive things to them that are not in their context that cannot see them do the bad things And who are other megachurch pastors. So there’s just this like cabal of megachurch pastors that are sitting on each other’s boards saying you can do whatever you want and have fun. Mary DeMuth: That system is ungodly and that will cause the fall of many leaders, which we have already seen over and over and over. It’s like a broken record of sameness. It keeps happening. Why? Because I think we are creating a church structure from a pyramid, which if you look in the Bible, the Israelites left Egypt, but were still looking back at it. One person at the top, one Pharaoh at the top, one supreme ruler, and then everybody has to fit into that system underneath that pyramid. Mary DeMuth: Whereas the kingdom of God is the opposite of that. It’s an inverted pyramid. The kingdom is of people that are last to are not acknowledged. And I think we’re going to be super surprised at where they are standing in line and the new heavens and the new earth, the people with all the acclaim are going to be way at the back. The people that nobody knew about that were silently and quietly serving the Lord are going to be at the front of the line. And we’re going to say, tell me your story, I want to learn from you. Mary DeMuth: But these structures cause the downfall of many men who do not have the character to hold up that structure. They’ve been given leadership responsibility without having maturity, and therefore they are stealing sermons. They are harming people with their words. They are demonizing others. They are all sorts of things you talked about last week. They’re doing those things because they have to keep their empire because their ego needs it so badly. Julie Roys: And the other thing is, and we can’t really even go into this, although I know you see this too, because you run your own literary agency, is that the evangelical industrial complex needs these celebrity pastors to function. So they need the publishing companies need the celebrities so that they can publish them, so that the megachurches need the celebrity to fuel their model of that great attractional speaker that can be everything. Which again, does just feed into the narcissism and it attracts the narcissism. Julie Roys: We like the narcissist. And the whole entire moneymaking empire runs on these narcissists and these celebrity pastors. And so it’s not just even the pastor himself who needs to be a celebrity, but it’s this system that needs celebrities. And at some point, Mary we’ve got to deal with this and evangelicalism, or we’re just going to keep doing this over and over and over again. Mary DeMuth: And I believe the Lord is bringing judgment on those systems. And we’re seeing that in publishing as well. I think it’s a broken system. We make these requirements of how popular you are to be able to be an author. In the nineties and before, it was really about can you write a good book? Is it theologically sound? Do you have a good mind? Do you have a heart to minister to others? And now it’s how many social media followers do you have? Which is you can buy those. Mary DeMuth: So what does that even mean? I hate being a cog in the Christian industrial complex, both as an author and as a literary agent, but as an agent, I feel like I’m championing projects that would otherwise not get sold. That are more global voices people that are marginalized and not often given a voice. So that’s why I have a literary agency. Cause I’m trying to have those voices platformed. Julie Roys: Before you go, I want to ask you also about, we’ve talked a little bit about a safe church, but what makes somebody a safe person as you’re trying to process this? Mary DeMuth: A safe person is someone who doesn’t speak initially, who is an active listener. Who doesn’t jump to conclusions, who doesn’t feel the need to defend the church that you are leaving, who doesn’t say things like Hebrew says don’t forsake your assembling together. Those kinds of like cliche, like super cliche oh, you better do this instead of just meeting you in your grief. Mary DeMuth: A safe person doesn’t try to change your state. They come alongside you into your state and they weep alongside. And that to me is so powerful. People won’t remember what you said, but they will remember that you were there with them in the pain. And we’re just willing to say, yeah, that hurts. And, oh, that must’ve been very painful. Just that empathy piece. Julie Roys: And they won’t shame you for deconstructing. They’ll walk with you; they’ll allow you to process. And I hate that when I see that. I see it on social media all the time, people denigrating people who are deconstructing and I’m like, maybe if you didn’t do that, maybe they wouldn’t be walking away from their faith. But again, deconstructing, I think takes a lot of different forms. I think for a lot of people that have gone through it; they’ve come back to a richer faith that stripped of maybe some of the baggage that they had previously. Julie Roys: Before I let you go, because I know a lot of people listening are in this place of just really, really  struggling and in a lot of hurt. And I know you have names and faces for those people too. Would you be willing to just pray for them and what they’re going through right now? Mary DeMuth: I will. And I’m just going to mention, I have a free resource, MARYDEMUTH.COM/CHURCHHURT. And it’s a hundred statements about things that people feel when they’re going through church hurt so that you can share it with a friend and check off the ones that are you, and then have a good conversation about it. Julie Roys: Wonderful. What a great resource. Thank you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Okay. Let me pray. Lord, thank you for loving the least of these. Thank you for leaving the 99 and chasing the one. Thank you for being counterintuitive. Thank you for the Sermon on the Mount. Thank you for your grace being sufficient for us and your power is made perfect in our weakness. Mary DeMuth: Lord, forgive us for these systems where we are worshiping strength, power, and numbers when that’s nothing to do with your kingdom. Reorient our lives and our hearts to what is your kingdom. Help us to hear your voice in the midst of the madness and the muddledness of what this has become. I pray that you would send friends to my friends who are suffering in the aftermath of spiritual abuse and church hurt. Mary DeMuth: I pray for hope Lord in these kinds of situations, it can feel like a death, and it feels very hopeless and sad. I pray for comfort and pray all of this in your beautiful name, Jesus. Amen. Julie Roys: Amen. Mary. Thank you so much. And how beautiful that even in this you are ministering to others through it. So I am just so grateful for you and for Patrick and for what you bring to the kingdom. And thank you so much for being willing to talk so vulnerably and bravely. So thank you. Mary DeMuth: Thank you. Julie Roys: And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and I want to invite all of you to our next Restore Conference in Phoenix in February 2025. Julie Roys: This is one of the most healing gatherings I know of, where you won’t just hear from amazing folks like Mary DeMuth and Scott McKnight, author of A Church Called Tove, and Dr. David Pooler, an expert in adult clergy sexual abuse. But you’ll also meet lots of other people who have gone through similar experiences, and I’ve found that just being in that kind of community is so healing. Julie Roys: And so powerful. So please come. I would love to meet you there. To find out more information, just go to RESTORE2025.COM. Also just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. Julie Roys: And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more

Sermon preached by Dr. B.J. Hutto at Hendricks Avenue Baptist Church on Sunday, May 26, 2024.

Jason Hawk Harris is a singer and songwriter from Texas whose latest record Thin Places is an examination of grief in a way that speaks so directly to my recent experience. Classically trained and full of creative energy. He is a sweet and thoughtful person who makes incredible records. I am so grateful to bring y'all my conversation with Jason Hawk Harris. Spotify: Apple Podcasts: The Marinade Website:  Follow all things Jason Hawk Harris: https://jasonhawkharris.com/ Support The Marinade on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/marinadepodcast  

The Reverend Brian Steadman

Ah, French Bread. Art by https://twitter.com/imabeebop Music (Free use) Thin Places by Jesse Gallagher Tough by NEFFEX (Heard through the club) Cigarette Solitude by Slenderbeats Neto's theme by Me Breeze by Telecasted In the Throes by Asher Fulero

Fr. Darry, Adam, and Josh discuss the "Thin Places." The gang uses the Celtic phrase to discuss shrines, monuments, and sacred spaces. If you have questions, comments, or a personal experience about the topic, please email darryl@ascensionwv.org.

The phrase, “thin places,” dates back to the ancient Celts who used it to describe those times when we feel closest to the God, as if the veil between the natural world and spiritual world becomes very thin. The Rev. Jane Ellen Nickell discusses how to discover these sacred spaces in our own lives where […]

Here's a little quiz: Where do new things, mountains, and thin places come together? Answer: The Mountain of Transfiguration. Join Pastor Chris as he takes us on a journey from Deuteronomy and Moses to the Gospel of Mark and Jesus as we discover why the Transfiguration of Christ is so critically important to our faith. Art credit: The beautiful painting associated with this post is called "Transfiguration" by Lewis Bowman (one of our favorites at Epiclesis).

Jason Hawk Harris joins us to discuss the Saves the Day album “Stay What You Are” as well as discussing Jason's new record "Thin Places."  Plenty of other discussion including Lydia Lovelace, grief, football analogies and DK Metcalf, awkward silences, did I mention grief, “those boys can't sing,” sad bastard music and Neon State (little brother's band). Check out Jason Hawk Harris at: https://jasonhawkharris.com/Check out Saves The Day at:  https://www.facebook.com/savesthedayband/Check out other episodes at RecordsRevisitedPodcast.com, Apple Podcasts, Castbox, iHeartMedia, Google Podcasts and Spotify. Additional content is found at: Facebook.com/recordsrevisitedpodcast or twitter @podcastrecords or IG at instagram.com/recordsrevisitedpodcast/ or join our Patreon at patreon.com/RecordsRevisitedPodcast

Thin places are those places and experiences where we awake to how close the presence of God is to our lives. It's not that God comes closer to us, but that our veils, masks, and distractions are removed, and we connect more immediately to the Divine presence. Thin places, by definition, are experiences of wonder.  In this episode, Scott talks about what thin places are for him this time of year and invites listeners to reflect on their own thin places.  You can read the daily Advent reflections on Wonder from LIving Compass at https://www.livingcompass.org/living-well-through-advent-2023-readings.

Fri, 15 Dec 2023 00:00:00 +0000 https://seesee.podigee.io/s2e7-barbara-holmes ece420c2bac5a440baf327171e3ef3b0 Whether from a religious, theological, philosophical, cultural, or a scientific perspective, the view of unity based on the commonality of the divine nature within and shared by all human beings is echoing a universal awareness. In this episode Rev. Barbara A. Holmes, addresses Western cultural complexities of “race” and ethnicity through the lenses of physics and cosmology and the barriers constructed by modern culture that prevent us from understanding and speaking a language of unity. She reminds us how movement is not antithetical of contemplation but rather an evoking force of motion. In this episode you will learn about public theology, the despair sang of the Blues, the significance of the improvisational and spontaneous character of jazz, and its secular insubordination. We invite you to listen her talk about the importance of elderly wisdom and the relevance of storytelling on individual and collective identity, as well as the role of Africanism in today's life cultural and artistic expressions and how dance bounds us all with the cosmic. Barbara A. Holmes is a spiritual teacher, activist, and scholar focused on African American spirituality, mysticism, cosmology, and culture. She is President Emerita of United Theological Seminary of the Twin Cities, served as Vice President of Academic Affairs and Dean of Memphis Theological Seminary and was ordained in the Latter Rain Apostolic Holiness Church in Dallas, Texas as well as by the Disciples of Christ Christian Church. LINKS & INFO: Barbara A. Holmes: https://www.drbarbaraholmes.com/bio 12-Minute Meditation with Dr. Barbara Holmes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGU8QusRjD0 Experiencing God in the Thin Places with Barbara Holmes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVkXNjj7YNI The Cosmic We — Podcast Series by Barbara Holmes: https://cac.org/podcast/the-cosmic-we Crisis Contemplation: https://www.drbarbaraholmes.com/books Find out more about the See See Podcast on our website: https://seeseepodcast.com Connect with us! https://linktr.ee/seeseebyceci 2 7 full no Dr. Cecilia Ponce Rivera

Sermon audio from December 10, 2023, by Pastor Barry Braun Main text: Micah 5:2-5

It's officially cozy season! This week, Monica and Jennifer are back with another roundup of biophilic holiday reads, perfect for gifting or curling up with by the fireplace. So, whether you're looking for a beautiful coffee table book, inspiring looks at the science of spirituality, or words of wisdom inspired by nature, keep on listening. Shownotes Biophilic Solutions on Bookshop.orgThe 2024 Biophilic Leadership Summit Wild: The Naturalistic Garden by Clare Takacs and Noel KingsburyDesign a healthy home by Oliver HeathHow to Be More Tree: Essential Life Lessons for Perennial Happiness by Potter Gift and Annie DavidsonThin Place Design: The Architecture of the Numinous by Dr. Phillip James TabbThe Transcendent Brain: Spirituality in the Age of Science by Alan Lightman The Creative Act: A Way of Being by Rick RubinThe Language of Trees: A Rewilding of Literature and Landscape by Katie Holten Key Words: Biophilic, Biophilia, Nature, Nature Based Solutions, Reading, Holiday, Gifts, Book, Book List, Science, Spirituality, Trees, Garden, Gardening, Natural Garden, Thin Places, Creativity, Literature, Landscape, Clare Takacs, Noel Kingsbury, Oliver Heath, Potter Gift, Annie Davidson, Phil Tabb, Phillip James Tabb, Alan Ligthman, Rick Rubin, Katie Holten

We conclude our “What is” series with the topic of Pilgrimage. What is it and how is it done?  What does pilgrimage share in common with exile and in what ways does it differ?  Is pilgrimage always life changing or do some people return feeling as though not much has changed? Join us as we talk about this journey of the soul. May the conversation inspire your path.Additional ResourcesPodcast: Ep 21 The Sacred Space Inside Today from The Contemplative LifeHashtagsIslam, Nature Pilgrimage, Coming of age, Stations of the Cross, Shabbat, Thin Places, JourneySign up for our newsletter here: https://foundrysc.com/about/newsletter

As headlines convulse with the latest news about the Israel-Hamas war, how should followers of Jesus respond? Jon Huckins, professor, author, and founder of Journey Home, shares with Steve Carter about what peacemaking looks like一first in our own hearts, then in the world God calls us to love. This convicting conversation point us toward the way of Jesus, helping us see the image of God in people on all sides of the conflict. Jon and Steve, who recently hiked the Camino de Santiago together, reflect on the lost art of pilgrimage and how it helps us relinquish control, reawaken to the Spirit's movement, forgive, and rest in the love of God. This inner work, in which we allow God to calm the storm inside, is the first step toward spreading peace around us. Ultimately, the conflict is not a call to coldly evaluate political and religious “sides.” It's an invitation to pray fervently for all people, inviting the Spirit to transform us in the process. EPISODE LINKS Jon's organization Website: https://jonhuckins.net Journey Home Jon's books: Mending the Divides, Thin Places, Teaching Through the Art of Storytelling @jonhuckins @steveryancarter @craft_character Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello friends! Austin based, singer-songwriter, Jason Hawk Harris is my guest for episode 1324! Jason's latest album, a musical exploration of grief after losing his mother, Thin Places is available now on all streaming services and vinyl on Bloodshot Records. He'll be starting a U.S. tour in January. Go to jasonhawkharris.com for tour dates, vinyl, videos and more. Jason and I have a great conversation about losing his mom and how he wrote an album about dealing with that loss, growing up in Houston, moving to L.A. when he was 18, having his label, Bloodshot Records go under after his first release then being resurrected just in time to release Thin Places, and more on ep 1324. I had a great time getting to know Jason. I'm sure you will too. Let's get down! Get the chords and tabs to over a million songs and start playing today with Ultimate Guitar If you feel so inclined. Venmo: venmo.com/John-Goudie-1  Paypal: paypal.me/johnnygoudie  

If the main ingredients of a great Country song are love and loss, singer-songwriter Jason Hawk Harris's creative tank was overflowing when it came time to make his masterful new LP Thin Places. Part meditation on grieving the loss of his mother, career, and the global tragedy of the pandemic, and part raucous celebration of finding the joy of life despite those hardships Thin Places is a beautifully honest and sonically cinematic look at who we are at rock-bottom, our most ecstatic highs, and every point in-between. Tune in now to hear our chat with Jason about the making of Thin Places, finding a way to live sustainably as an artist, moving through life with grief, and much more. ------We're able to bring you great conversations like this and more because of your generous support. Please consider making a one time gift or a recurring donation today!SUPPORTSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/discologist. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you've listened to Serenbe Stories for a while, then our guest today, Phill Tabb, will need no introduction. For those who need a refresher, Phill Tabb is Professor Emeritus of Architecture at Texas A&M University and has been involved with Serenbe since its earliest days, creating the community's masterplan using the principles of sacred geometry. He is the author of numerous publications including Serene Urbanism: A Biophilic Theory and Practice of Sustainable Placemaking, and Biophilic Urbanism: Designing Resilient Communities for the Future. His latest is Thin Place Design: Architecture of the Numinous. This fascinating new study examines the qualities that make certain places extraordinary, magical, and profound. In this episode, Monica and Steve catch up with Phill about the emotional responses to thin places, the transformative experiences we find in nature, and the thin place experiences he has had right here in Serenbe. Show NotesThin Place Design: Architecture of the Numinous by Phillip James Tabb Serene Urbanism: A Biophilic Theory and Practice of Sustainable Design by Phillip James TabbBiophilic Urbanism: Designing Resilient Communities for the Future by Phillip James TabbThin Places, Sacred Architecture, and Biophilic Patterns with Dr. Phill Tabb (Biophilic Solutions Podcast)Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How it Can Transform Your Life by Dacher KeltnerRachel K. GarceauNygren PlacemakingKey Words: Thin Places, Phill Tabb, Serenbe, Awe, Serenity, Emotion Wheel, Dacher Keltner, Biophilia, Biophilic Design

Chris and Emily are happy to welcome back author SHULY CAWOOD to talk about her new poetry collection, SOMETHING SO GOOD IT CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH. Shuly reads a poem and talks about her poetic process, and we ask her to discuss our favorite(s) in the collection. We enjoy Shuly's poetry in part because it is so accessible. Biblio Adventures are always fun and interesting, and we went on one that opened up a huge new-to-us genre, ROMANCE! We recap a conference we attended at Yale, Popular Romance Fiction: The Literature of Hope. Chris watched the Senate Judiciary Committee's Hearing on Book Bans. We also had a great day in NYC with Aunt Ellen visiting The New York Society Library, The Corner Bookstore, and Kitchen Arts and Letters. Oysters were also involved. Some of the books we've read since the last episode include (not surprisingly) two romance novels. Chris read CLEAT CUTE by Meryl Wilsner and Emily read the first in the Hell's Belles series by Sarah MacNeal, BOMBSHELL. Chris finished THE INFERNO by Dante. Emily goes out on a limb and declares that PROPERTIES OF THIRST by Marianne Wiggins might land on her top 10 list this year. She also finished THIN PLACES by Kerri Ní Dochartaigh and loved ZORRIE by Laird Hunt which was one of our BookTube buddy Russell of Ink and Paper Blog's favorites in 2021. So many books! And we are thrilled about it. And also happy that it is Autumn, one of our favorite seasons.

It's another 10th episode which means we're hosting a giveaway for newsletter subscribers! One lucky winner will receive a copy of DEMOCRACY IN CHAINS: The Deep History of the Radical Right's Stealth Plan for America by Nancy Maclean and THE DANTE CLUB by Matthew Pearl. To be entered to win, head to www.bookcougars.com/subscriber to join our newsletter; the winner will be chosen on September 15th. In between some fantastic Biblio Adventures to Salem, MA, and a Couch Biblio Adventure where we watched the 1934 adaptation of THE SCARLET LETTER, we managed to do some reading. We both read Alice Hoffman's new novel (and the book that sparked Scarlet Summer), THE INVISIBLE HOUR. Emily devoured LARK ASCENDING by Silas House and Chris took a deep dive into Nathaniel with Brenda Wineapple's biography, HAWTHORNE: A LIFE. Chris is currently listening to ADVERSITY FOR SALE by Jay Jeezy Jenkins and Emily is listening to THIN PLACES by Kerri Ní Dochartaigh. Scarlet Summer is winding down, but we still have one more Hawthorne-themed Biblio Adventure coming up: on Thursday, 9/21 we are heading to Boston. See you there?

Dr. Gene Bailey and Rebecca Friedlander discuss early Welsh saints and their Rhythms of Worship. Learn more about the Thin Places and the Bards of Wales as you journey back into Celtic history.

This Daily Still meditation focuses on the nearness of God and the holy hush it ushers into our souls as we pay attention to the Divine all around us. We invite you to pause and breathe in deeply, as you quiet your soul in order to notice the Glory of God.