Podcasts about moots

This was a great conversation with Moots on the new Weight of the Tide album, What Pale Victory. We talk about a short history of the band, The new album The writing process and it becomes a deep conversation that you really don't want to miss. PLUS.... Moots was generous enough to give us the first single a day before it's released into the wild so just another reason to listen to the episode. For more info on Weight of the Tide, you can find them all over socials. Thanks again to Moots for a great conversation and the single before it's released. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/eric-stangeland/support

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/XKwF1N--a00For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as lay leaders at Lakepointe Church, a megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area pastored by Josh Howerton. But as concerns about Howerton grew, Patrick and Mary found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now, they're dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called “church refugees” feel. In this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Mary DeMuth joins host Julie Roys to talk about navigating church bewilderment. This is a condition more and more Christians are experiencing today, as scandal and corruption are increasingly seeping into the church. And if you caught the previous TRR podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lakepointe Church. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How much is okay to say, and what is gossip? How do you find another church home when you're dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? These are crucial questions, which Mary—an internationally known author and a repeat speaker at our Restore Conference—admits she is wrestling with. And, as is so characteristic of Mary, she engages these questions with grace, wisdom, and a passion for truth and justice. Sadly, many churches have created a culture where it's not okay to talk about leaving a toxic church. But as Mary explains in this podcast, the church won't get better until we talk about it. Believers must begin to evaluate and process the toxicity in churches—and how we can truly become the Body of Christ. Mary has recently developed a Church Hurt Checklist to help people understand their situation and begin to process and articulate it. Download it free at marydemuth.com/churchhurt Guests Mary DeMuth Mary DeMuth is an international speaker, podcaster, and author of over 40 books, fiction and nonfiction, including The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible and We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis. Mary lives in Texas with her husband of 30+ years and is mom to three adult children. Learn more at MaryDeMuth.com. Show Transcript Julie Roys: For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as leaders at a megachurch in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But as concerns about the current pastor grew, they found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now they’re dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called church refugees feel. Julie Roys: Welcome to The Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today, Mary DeMuth joins me to talk about navigating church bewilderment. Sadly, this is an issue many Christians are dealing with, as abuse, scandal, and corruption increasingly seem to be seeping into the church. Julie Roys: And if you caught our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lake Point Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, where Josh Howerton is Pastor. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. And if you missed our prior podcast, it was a real eye-opener and I encourage you to go back and listen to that. Julie Roys: Today’s podcast is a sequel to my podcast with Amanda, but rather than exposing the issues at Lake Point today, Mary is going to be discussing the aftermath of leaving. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How do you know how much is okay to say? And what is gossip? And how do you find another church home when you’re dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? Julie Roys: These are crucial questions and ones that I know many of you are dealing with today. And so I’m so looking forward to diving into this topic with Mary DeMuth. But first I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Talbot Seminary and Marquardt of Barrington. Julie Roys: Are you passionate about impacting the world so it reflects biblical ideals of justice? The Talbot School of Theology Doctor of Ministry program is launching a new track exploring the theological, social, and practical dimensions of biblical justice today. The program equips students with the knowledge, skills, and spiritual foundation needed to address social issues with wisdom and compassion. Julie Roys: Justice has become a key issue in our culture, but more importantly, it’s an issue that’s close to God’s heart. While it’s clear the Bible calls God’s people to pursue justice, we must be guided by His Word within that pursuit. Talbot has created this track to do just that. As part of this program, you’ll examine issues such as trafficking, race, immigration, and poverty. Julie Roys: And I’ll be teaching a session as well, focusing on the right use of power in our churches so we can protect the vulnerable, rather than harm them. So join me and a community of like-minded scholars committed to social change and ethical leadership. Apply now at TALBOT.EDU/DMIN. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and quality. That's because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys: Again, joining me is Christian author and podcaster, Mary DeMuth, and many of Mary from her excellent books like We Too: Discussing the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the Church, and also her memoir, Thin Places. Mary also was a guest speaker at our last Restore Conference in 2022, and she’ll be speaking again at our Restore Conference in Phoenix in February in 2025. So we’re super looking forward to that. Julie Roys: But she joins me now to talk about something that’s been a very painful process for both her and Patrick, and that is leaving her church of 23 years, Lake Point Church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So Mary, Thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know has been a really difficult journey. Mary DeMuth: Thanks. I certainly prayed about this conversation and what I’ve noticed in this space is that a lot of people in the middle of it. are not articulating how they’re feeling because there’s this general pressure from churches that you leave that you aren’t supposed to say anything. And I think there’s a difference between, and we’ll talk about this, I’m sure, throughout this episode, but there’s a difference between leaving quietly and running around gossiping about things. Certainly, those are two different things. Mary DeMuth: But I think what we’ve done is we’ve created a culture of silence; you can’t talk about it and literally we won’t get better unless we do talk about it. So that’s one reason why I am having this conversation today, because this is not a completed story. This is a messy story. I’m in the middle of it. Mary DeMuth: I am heartbroken, and I don’t have all the answers. But I wanted to give word to those of you that may be in that same space, that may be hurting and don’t have words to say about it. And maybe I can articulate some of those things for you. Julie Roys: And I so appreciate that. I find that people often are willing to talk about experiences years after the fact, when they’ve worked it all out and they can tie it all up in a neat bow and we can all go, Oh, that’s so nice. And here’s three ways that you can apply this message. But I knew you were going through a really painful thing that it was messy. You’ve been tweeting about it, or I should say posting on X. Julie Roys: You’ve been very open and honest with your pain. And I really appreciate that. And I love the topic. You actually gave me the title for this, about navigating church bewilderment. And I love that word bewilderment because I feel like it really captures the confusion, the real disillusionment, and then the grief and the pain. Julie Roys: All of these things bound up in one. And so we’re going to get to all that and unpack all of that. But I think to understand the depth of it for you and for Patrick, first I have to understand how deeply vested you were in this church. So talk about what this church has meant to you over more than two decades and the roles that you played in it and the community that you had. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we’ve been there for 23 years, and we immediately started serving the moment we landed there. And we also were the first non-IMB, it was an SBC church at the time, and we were the first non-IMB missionaries to be sent out from Lake Point. Julie Roys: Define IMB for those who . Mary DeMuth: Yes. International mission board. So typically SBC churches send, they don’t really send their own missionaries. They sponsor IMB because all the money comes out of the SBC into this fund for the International Mission Board. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted to be actually supported because we believed that people who paid prayed. And so we were not IMB, but Lake Point sent us out. So we were church planters in the South of France for a couple of years. And honestly the leadership there at our church, even though we weren’t going through our church, they were the ones that helped us through a really untenable situation. And our loyalty to that church was because they put us back together when we got back from the field.. Mary DeMuth: So much pouring in and so much love. And so we have been a life group leader for 20 of the 23 years. The only three years we weren’t was when we were in France, planting a church. And then I have run a couple of conferences, interestingly enough, called the Re-story Conference, which was very similar sounding to the Restore Conference. Mary DeMuth: And I also recorded a Life Way study at Lake Point for an audience. And then my husband was an elder at the church for five years. And so we have led mission teams all over the world for Lake Point. We have definitely been in the upper levels of volunteer leadership all these years and have enjoyed a lot of conviviality and fellowship. Mary DeMuth: And I never never. I always bragged about my church. It never crossed my mind that there would be a day that I wasn’t at that church anymore. And so as of December of 2023, we are away from there and making our way into a new space. Julie Roys: And I’ve talked about this on this podcast, but we’re in a house church with, some of the folks in our house church were at their previous church for over 30 years, and the amount of pain and loss and especially when you’re, when you’re our age, early 40s. Julie Roys: That’s it. It’s early 40s. No, when you’re a little bit older and later in life and to be at this point where you’re starting over is not at all where you expected to be, and it’s pretty tough to be there. You retain some of the friendships, but everything’s changed. And it just makes for a really really difficult road that you never planned to be on. Julie Roys: Your church; and this is a lot of the reason behind you leaving, changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Stephen Stroop was your previous pastor. And in 2019, I believe Josh Howerton came in. Your husband actually was on the elder board that approved him, right? Mary DeMuth: Yes. Yes. And we’ve had to work through that as you can imagine, because that’s painful to think about. And just to expand a little bit about the why is the basic reasons why we left. There’s a lot of things. As an author, as a published author and as a speaker, the plagiarism was just grating on me and I couldn’t stomach it, but that wasn’t the main reason. Mary DeMuth: Although it’s still very problematic to me. What’s more problematic is that they don’t think it’s a big deal and they don’t see it as sin, and I just disagree. But the two things that we, the two main things that caused us to walk away, one was we were told by leadership, by upper-level leadership, that there was no place for us to serve. Mary DeMuth: And that was really, that was about a year ago. And so it took us about a year to make that decision. Like we were still serving in our life group, but there were things that God has put in us as church planters. And as me, as an author and an advocate that we have a lot that we would love to be able to offer, and to have that cut off when we feel like we’re in the prime of service right now. We weren’t asking to be paid. This is all volunteer, but we were told we couldn’t. Mary DeMuth: And then the second thing that was kind of the straw was all of the crude words and the misogynistic statements that started around 2022 almost every sermon. And as an advocate for sexual abuse victims and as an advocate for women, I could no longer be associated with that church because it just didn’t, I just couldn’t be associated with it. Mary DeMuth: I have stood in front of the Southern Baptist Convention, and I have spoken and advocated, and I have been chewed up and spit out for it. And if I’m going to a church that is marginalizing women, it does not make sense. And so no place for us to serve, big, huge problem. And then I just couldn’t be connected with a church that had that kind of reputation. Julie Roys: Those reasons are huge. and make an awful lot of sense. The plagiarism as you said, the crude remarks, the misogynistic remarks. And for a lot of folks, if you’re like, what are they talking about? I do encourage you to go back and listen to our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, where we went over a lot of these things that Mary’s talking about that have happened in her church. Julie Roys: I’m sure there’s people listening, and they’re like, okay, that sounds really, really awful. But how do you know when you hit that tipping point? Because I remember talking to you a couple of years ago and me going, Hey, is this really your pastor? I’m seeing some stuff. How is this your pastor? And you’re like we’re serving, and we love our life group. I get it. I totally, totally get it. But how did you and Patrick, how did you get to the point where you’re like, this is the tipping point, no more? Mary DeMuth: We decided we went into this together, so we decided that we both had to have the same decision. We weren’t going to have one of us leave and one not leave. We were going to do this together. So that took a year of a lot of conversations. And we saw those red flags when you saw them. So we’ve seen them, but as you mentioned, the model of Lake Point used to be, it seems to be shifting now, but it used to be church within a church. And so your life group was really basically what you’re doing, Julie. It’s a small gathering of people where there is someone who teaches, and there’s someone who’s the missions coordinator. And there’s someone who, it’s that’s how, like your church is that group. And so we felt a deep, strong connection to our group. And we felt like we were the pastors of that church within a church. Mary DeMuth: The model has shifted. And I don’t know, it has never been articulated publicly, but it seems from the exterior looking in that it’s more becoming a franchise model, which is where you create this mother church, and it can be duplicated like MacDonald’s in any context. Therefore they may not have that idea that it is church within a church anymore. It has to be something replicatable on all other campuses. And so we began to see this shifting of, this is no longer church within a church, which is really what kept us there. We had people we were serving. And then honestly, I just couldn’t stomach sermons anymore. I couldn’t walk into that building anymore. Mary DeMuth: And as everything became a spectacle the longer we were there, it was all about Sunday morning and the spectacle that it had become like a circus, and I could not find Jesus there. And I would sit in the audience. We had beautifully. articulated and performed auto-tuned worship. It was beautiful. It sounded amazing. There was a lot of rah-rah-rah. There was a lot of energy and it felt like Ichabod to me, like to me as a Christ follower, a mature Christ follower of many years, I couldn’t feel the presence of the Lord anymore. And for me, that’s what is the point of going to a church, if that has happened to you? Mary DeMuth: I’m not saying that other people aren’t experiencing the Lord there. I’m not saying that other people aren’t becoming Christians there. They are. And that’s probably the most problematic part of this whole thing is that they are easily able to point to numbers that are flowing in through the front door, ignoring all of us that have left out the back door. Mary DeMuth: And because it is successful, therefore they can just call me names and malign me or people like Amanda and others, and they can dismiss us because look what God is doing. Julie Roys: And Amanda talked about that same thing about the church within a church and even how each of the churches had different women’s ministries. Julie Roys: And I think about it, it was so personal because people are different and they all had different campuses, have different makeup, they have different cultures and now, this franchise model where you go in, you order a Big Mac, and you get a Big Mac. That’s what you’re used to, right? Julie Roys: But is it? And probably our conversation today, we probably don’t have enough time to really delve into this, but this is something I have been thinking more and more about, is it even church if you have a place where it, maybe a Christian organization and maybe a Christian organization that blesses a lot of people but is it a church where you say to members of the body, we don’t need you, we don’t need your gift, and you can’t serve here? If we have a pastor who doesn’t even know people’s names, if we don’t have that kind of shepherding, is it even a church anymore? Mary DeMuth: I’ll back up before I answer that in that I’ve, been overseas and, anyone that’s been overseas and gone to a McDonald’s overseas knows they have different categories. So even franchises like McDonald’s in France has McWine, right? Or McVine. McDonald’s even understands contextualizing the hamburger to the person, and to the people. So that’s an odd thing for me that there would be this idea that you can just, this is the model and we’re superimposing it on all sorts of different economic people and people in different cultures, and we’re just gonna superimpose it there, which seems super weird to me. Mary DeMuth:  On the, is this a church? We have to just go back to simplicity, which is, are we celebrating the Lord’s Supper? Are there sacraments there? Is the word of God being delivered and is it? Mary DeMuth: And then deeper than that, are  disciples being made? because there’s a big, huge difference between converts who hear something. And I think about the parable of the soils, they hear it, they receive it with joy, they have no root and then they walk away. We’re not teaching a theology of suffering in most of these bigger churches for sure. Mary DeMuth: But I think we need to remember that a church is supposed to be a place of koinonia, a place of fellowship, a place where we are iron sharpening iron, and a place of discipleship where people are not just converted, but they are just doing the slow work of people pouring into each other’s lives. That’s discipleship. That’s not a top-down model. That’s not pastor to congregation. That’s person to person. And when a church gets so big for its britches these things can fall through the cracks. Mary DeMuth: Now, Lake Point had done a very good job of doing that discipleship piece through their vehicle of a life group. But as things have shifted, we’re seeing a lot less of that. And again, I haven’t been there for six months, so they could be doing it. I don’t know, but just from my perspective today that’s something that’s been difficult to see. Julie Roys: You alluded to this earlier, this idea of leaving well. It’s hard to leave well and even to define what leaving well is. I will say there was one church that my husband and I ended up leaving and it was over a theological disagreement that we just felt we couldn’t bend on. And at the same time, we felt really pulled to another church. They actually had us come up and explain why we were leaving and gathered around us and prayed for us. Julie Roys: That was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen where it was just like, differences and God makes calling you here. We want to bless you as you go. And you’ve met a lot to this church and we mean a lot to each other and let’s just bless each other. It was so beautiful, and I don’t know why this can’t happen more. But usually it’s just a lot of pain and a lot of heartache And when you talk about leaving well, what it usually means to a lot of people, and I’ve heard even Christian leaders talk about this. When you leave well, you just keep your stuff to yourself. Julie Roys: The issues that you had, you suck them under, and you don’t speak about it. And honestly, I think that’s part of our problem in the church is that we don’t talk about our problems. And so we wait till they become a major scandal or crisis. And then they really blow up. And we allow abusive pastors just kind of reign; to continue doing what they’re doing. Julie Roys: So talk about this concept of leaving well. Obviously, you’ve chosen to speak rather boldly about what happened there. I think really from a heart of love and concern for both the church and the people there, not just to vent how you’re feeling. But talk about that and how you’ve come to the decision you have about that. Mary DeMuth: First, I’ll say there’s been kind of  an unholy silence. We were pretty high up and we have not been followed up with, and the very few times we were invited into those spaces, it was difficult. So there is that. I would encourage church leaders to do what your former church did, because I think there’s a lot to be learned. Mary DeMuth: I also need to say that we didn’t leave from a position of canceling and of immaturity. There’s one thing if you’re like a church hopper and you’re like, just running around with a consumeristic mindset like, what do I get in this for me? A lot of people that are leaving churches are being accused of being that. But the ones that I know that have left this church are mature, deep believers in Christ who are seeing so many red flags. Mary DeMuth: And the reason I articulated it was because I was running into people who were brokenhearted and didn’t have words for it. And somehow through the grace of God and through his power and his ability, I was able to say the things that people were feeling so that they would no longer feel alone. I would rather have been silent if the Lord hadn’t put his hand on me. Mary DeMuth: I would rather grieve this alone and quietly, but I have seen a lot of really good conversation and ministry happen because of this. I’m not out to harm the reputation of the church. I will never tell someone to leave a church unless they’re being abused, obviously, that’s their own decision. Mary DeMuth: They have the autonomy to make that decision between them and God. But I do want to be a listening ear and an empath for those who are bewildered at the church they’re going to that no longer looks like the church they used to go to. Julie Roys: So tell me what is gossip because this is what is, this is the word, I’ve gotten called this myriads and myriads of times. But what is gossip? And clearly you don’t believe this falls into that category. Why? Mary DeMuth: It’s not gossip to share your emotions about how you’re reacting to an abuse. That is actually being a lot like Paul. And if you look at the letters throughout the epistles in particular, you see Paul saying things about churches. Mary DeMuth: And so if we’re going to talk about gossip, we’d have to call him a gossip because he was constantly calling out, Hey, listen, those Judaizers, they don’t really have it right. Oh, listen, this Gnosticism isn’t good. And that guy’s having sex with his mother-in-law. These kinds of things are, he’s very clear. Mary DeMuth: These are not untrue things he’s saying. These are actually true statements. And underneath all of that is a desire for the church to be the body of Christ and to be holy. It’s not slander because it’s telling the truth. And it’s always with a desire to see God do good work in the local church. And if she is straying, if you love her, you will say something about it. Mary DeMuth: Now there’s a manner in which you can do that. You can be really caustic. You can speak the truth without love, but we are called to speak the truth with love. And I believe that we have conflagrated speaking the truth in love with gossip, and those are two different things. Gossip intends to harm the reputation of another or of an entity; telling the truth in love tries to help that institution have a mirror and see what’s going on. Julie Roys: The motive is really important, although I always get frustrated when people try to judge other people’s motives because the truth is, you don’t know somebody else’s heart. And that’s something I never do. I’ll talk about actions, but I don’t know someone’s heart. Only God knows the heart. But I know that’s something I constantly check myself about is my desire for repentance? is my desire to see these leaders repent? 100 percent, and I know you well enough to know that you would be absolutely thrilled and would extend grace if the leaders who have hurt you so deeply would repent of their sin and would change their ways. I know that and I’m sure you pray for that, that you and Patrick are praying right now for that. Am I right? Mary DeMuth: Absolutely. That is  underneath all of this, is just a desire to see the local church healthy and to see her lift up the name of Jesus. And we also just want to again put up a mirror of is this representing the kingdom of God or is this representing something else? And that’s what we were coming to find. Patrick and I both were. The kingdom’s upside down. It’s counterintuitive. It’s the least is the most. And the most is the least. It’s not about building platforms. It’s not about being the winner. It’s not about Christian nationalism. It’s none of these. I don’t even like those two words together. Mary DeMuth: It’s not about power. Jesus willingly laid down his power and he considered equality with God, not something to be grasped. He made himself nothing. And when I see a lot of these big churches and not all of them, but a lot of them where it is very male leader centric celebrity driven. And really about, we want to be the coolest people with the biggest numbers. Mary DeMuth: I don’t get it. They’ll point to Acts chapter two. They’ll talk about how many were added to the kingdom on that day. They’ll call that a mega church. It was not a mega church. People were still meeting in homes. So we just have to be careful. I’m not against mega churches. I actually think that there’s a place for them. Mary DeMuth: Over the years, they we have had the benefit of a megachurch that can go into a community and say, oh, you need a church building, here you go. Like they can do some things that a littler church can’t do. So I’m not against the megachurch, but there is something fallible in the model, the consumeristic model, that is causing all of this anguish. Julie Roys: And I’d say the leadership model. Because we have imported a leadership model that’s of the world and done the exact opposite of what Jesus said, don’t be like the Gentiles who lorded over them, but instead, whoever wants to be first should be last, whoever wants to be greatest should be least. Julie Roys: It is the upside-down kingdom, and we’ve forgotten that. We’ve become just like the world, and we count our success the same way as the world. And we’ve seen this going, it’s been going on a very long time, and I think the megachurches get a lot of the criticism because they’ve. been kind of doing it in spades in an awful lot of them and then exporting these values to all the smaller churches who are wannabes, right? Julie Roys: So you even have smaller churches that are trying to do the exact same thing and they think it’s right because it’s successful very much in the American model of success, which is bigger and better. Before we go forward, there is something I do want to ask you, though, and I would be remiss if I didn’t. What was it about what you and Patrick that you were doing that they didn’t want you serving? Mary DeMuth: I don’t know. They just didn’t want us. That’s what’s been hard is, it’s a speculative, I just don’t know. And I’m willing to be talked to about those things, of course. Like if they feel like something that we’re not godly enough or we’re, or I’m too public or whatever it is, I don’t know. Mary DeMuth: But I do know this, I do know this. When we were told this, what we learned was that they had been morphing from a church that had a lot of lay leaders to a higher control situation where only people who are employed by the church could be in charge of ministries. And so, you can control that. If you can control someone's salary, you can control the whole thing. Mary DeMuth: And so we were just told there is no place for you because we’re not on staff. So that’s probably my guess at a reason is that we were not controllable. And the statement made to us is I’ve got 30 other people just like you that are well trained and that have gone, my husband went to seminary, and all that, but will never use them. We will never use them. And basically, you just need to get over it. You will never be used. Julie Roys:  What a waste of resources. Unbelievable. The kingdom is not so well resourced that we don’t need every single person; that God didn’t give gifts every single one of them to be used. Julie Roys: But I will say, I’ve seen this happen before. And the beautiful thing is, people get dispersed, people like yourself and like Patrick, too often churches that are very needy very welcoming. Like Oh, thank God. It’s like Christmas come early, come to Moots, come to our church. And I’m sure you’re experiencing that because I can’t imagine not wanting you and Patrick at my church. It’s just shocking to me. But yeah, that is a benefit of it. It’s the church in Jerusalem getting persecuted. Then they went to the ends of the earth, and we can do that. Julie Roys: One of the things that I’ve seen be a silver lining, if you can call it that, in these sorts of situations is you’re a church refugee, but there’s a lot of other ones out there, too. And there can be a great deal of deep fellowship. And, in many ways, that’s what RESTORE is. It’s a gathering of a lot of not just refugees, a lot of helpers and pastors and people who are allies who just want to know more. But. There’s an awful lot of us there that have been hurt by the church, and there’s just this beautiful, sweet fellowship. Julie Roys: And my understanding is, and Amanda alluded to it in our last podcast, that you guys have served as pastors to these refugees. Would you talk about that sweet group that you were able to love on and pastor through this and just help them? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we definitely were praying, and we just kept coming upon people. And in particular, people who had been employed but had been harshly fired in very traumatic ways. And we just felt so deeply. I mean for us, it’s sad and we were highly involved and it’s sad, but it wasn’t our job. And so we just had this empathy for those folks. And so we gathered as much as we knew, we put the word out quietly. Mary DeMuth: We gathered people for several weeks and met with them. And these were people that some were still there, and some were not, and some were walking away from Jesus. It was just the whole gamut of a wide variety of people in a lot of pain. And what we wanted to do was just to help them know our first session was called, You are not crazy. We just wanted them to know. that what they had seen and experienced was real and validated by the rest of us. And then we’ve just been walking through Chuck DeGroat's information about narcissism in the church and narcissistic church systems. And then talking about what is a safe person and what is a safe system. And then praying and crying and grieving and giving people the space that they are not allowed to have to get out all this junk that’s inside of us because it’s been so, so painful. Julie Roys: And I want to get to the safe system and the safe person, because I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening who would like that information as well. Julie Roys: But let’s talk about the feelings first, because when this happens, there is. Again, we talked about bewilderment. There’s just this mix of negative emotions that you don’t know what to do with a lot of times. One is anger and anger in the church has been one of these emotions that we just don’t deal with very well. And I’ve said this numerous times, but this is one that we’ll get. We’ll get thrown back in my face and people say, you sound like you’re angry and I’m like, darn I’m angry. Why aren’t you angry? Why wouldn’t we be angry when these awful things are happening in the church? And yet again, as a Christian, we feel guilty when we’re angry. So how have you dealt with your own anger, and helped others who are dealing with similar anger? Mary DeMuth: The first thing that we did was we process outside of the circle of the church because we needed to know if we were going crazy. Is this normal? Are these things that we’re saying? Is it a big deal? Or are we just being babies? We definitely did that. And then it’s been the prayer of let this anger fuel something beautiful, because I do believe that great movements of God happen because there’s injustice and we are angry at the injustice. Mary DeMuth: I often joke that I write a book when I’m angry, so I must be a pretty angry person at book 52. There’s injustice in this world and our God is righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. When we do the work of making note of people who are being hurt and oppressed and harmed, we are doing the Lord’s work. And so that anger can be a fuel to doing positive things Mary DeMuth:. Now, I also just want to say, it’s okay to be angry. I’m angry and I have been angry and I’m processing that with friends and I’m processing it with my husband and with the Lord. Rightfully so, because I see so many people, to use Mark Driscoll’s frustrating phraseology, the people behind the bus. I’m meeting so many people behind the bus that are getting the bus is backing up over the people. Because not only cause when if you say anything, if you dare to say anything, you will get run over again and again, you will be accused of all sorts of things when really your desire is to see people set free and to open the eyes of people that are being harmed so that they no longer have to be in that system anymore. Julie Roys: And what a great deal of fear these leaders must feel. to behave that way that you have to annihilate people who say anything negative. I’ve gotten quite comfortable with people saying negative things. I just want to make sure if there’s truth in it, that I take it to heart. It’s okay, but in the end of the day, you’ve got to be okay with who you are before your Lord. And those closest to you who will tell you the truth when you’re veering off. That desire to control that desire that you have to shut down negative communication. I can’t imagine living in that much fear that you constantly are doing that. And yet that’s what we see. Julie Roys: And that whole thing about feeling like you’re crazy. So much of that’s because you’ve been told you’re crazy. You’ve been told that because that’s the gaslighting that happens when you say there’s a problem. No, there is no problem. You’re the problem. Mary DeMuth: It’s back to the emperor with no clothes. We all see the naked emperor and only a little kid says he’s not wearing any clothes. And we’re like Oh, yeah, but there’s this like kind of delusional thing or czarist Russia, the Potemkin village. If you know what that is, it was a village that was just set up like a movie set so that when the czar went by he could see that this Potemkin’s village was actually a really cool place, but you open the door, you walk through, it’s just mud and dirt on the other side and some horses grazing in a field. Church is not a Potemkin village. It should never be. It should not be a facade that we are trying to hold up by shaming people who say negative things. The church is a living, breathing organization. It is the body of Christ. Mary DeMuth: God does not need to be defended. He can do just fine by himself. And this fear that you talk about is very real because it’s about human empire. Whenever we build our Roman empire on our cult of personality and our particular views about things and not on the word of God and not on studying the word of God, then we will be threatened by anyone who says anything negative because that will eat away at the foundation of our FACO empire. Julie Roys: Very well said. That is very well said. Let’s talk about grief. And I was reminded of the Kubler Ross Stages of grief. And let me see. Those are denial, which is often where we start, right? When things go wrong, anger, the bargaining we can work this out somehow, right? Depression and sink into that deep depression. This is just so sad. And then there’s acceptance, which is that last one. And it’s not like these are completely linear because what I found is you go through, oh, I’ve worked through to acceptance. No, I haven’t. I’m back at anger again. Julie Roys: Something will happen. it'll put you right back there. So it’s not completely linear, but how have you moved toward acceptance? What does acceptance look like? And maybe that’s a long way off but talk about where you’re at in that whole process. Mary DeMuth: I think a lot of people are in this space. There’s a lot of loyal people and that’s where the bargaining comes in. And a lot of the people I’ve talked to are like, yeah, I never go to that church anymore, like to the services, but I’m here because of my small group and they’re my church. There’s this, that we were in that space for a really long time. We can make this work. This is our church, not that other part is not the church, but it’s all together. Mary DeMuth: So once we got to the decision and made the decision, then the depression set in for sure. And I think I’m still there working my way through it of thinking that I was going to be there the rest of my life. As a person who grew up in a really difficult home and met Jesus at 15 years old, the church became my family. My family was not my family. And the church was the one place where I could go to be loved, to be healed, to be worked, just to work through my salvation with fear and trembling. And so, to walk away from something that you’ve been at the most we’ve ever been at a church is 23. This is the longest we’ve ever been somewhere to walk away from. It felt like I lost my limb. I lost my family, my father’s in the faith, my mother’s in the faith, my aunts, and my uncles in the faith. And then to be villainized for just having eyes to see what the heck is going on, has been devastating, devastating. So I’m still in the grief phase and I don’t cry much about it because I’ve sometimes just shoved it way down deep because I did not ever expect that I was going to have to leave a place I loved so much. Julie Roys: There’s a, I think it’s a short story and I should know the name of it, but it’s about someone, a man who goes to a cemetery and he sees a woman just weeping and weeping, and he’s there to visit his partner who had died. I don’t think he had actually married her. But he realizes in that moment that the person who’s grieving, who’s crying and just sobbing is the richer person. Because they had loved deeply and he had never loved that deeply. And I’ve thought about that, I lost my mother over 20 years ago and she was so special and I never like, I hear some people talk about their mothers, and how difficult or what I never felt that way. My mother was just a joy, but it was so hard to lose her, but it was hard because I loved her so much. Julie Roys: And I think, I’m so grateful for you that you did have that church experience where you were loved so deeply, where you loved deeply, and I’ve got to believe that God will provide that family again. It will be different. And I know I just feel so blessed by our church family that we found in this wasteland or out of the wasteland. Julie Roys: But it’s been really, really special because I don’t have to explain anything to these people. They understand the world I work in. They understand. It’s just, it’s really been a gift. And I think it’s been a gift too. And I know you have adult children. I’m glad I had these adult children because they’re a blessing in ways that they couldn’t be and a support in ways that they couldn’t be when they were younger, when we had to be everything to them. Julie Roys: And I’m glad I’m not dealing with, and I know a lot of people are,  is what do we do for our kids now? And then there’s that pressure to find something for your children right away. And that makes it really hard. But as believers, we are taught, Hebrews 10:25, let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but all the more as the day of the Lord approaches, let us encourage each other and all the more as the day approaches. I have found sometimes that can be used as a club against people who are just grieving, and they’re dealing with a great deal of betrayal trauma at this point. Julie Roys: And now we’re going to hit them over the head and say, you better be in church on Sunday. When they walk into a church and it just triggers, it’s a trigger for them. I believe in fellowship. I believe in the church. I love the church, but I am concerned about the process of helping people reengage after they’ve been wounded so profoundly. Julie Roys: So speak to this process of finding a new church home, or even having the freedom for a period of time to say, I don’t know. I don’t know that I can do that right now. Obviously, there is a danger if we’re out of fellowship for too long. But speak to that person who right now is outside of fellowship and really afraid to reengage with it. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. First, you’re super normal. And if you’ve been wounded in a terrible community, the stakes are pretty high, when you walk in, especially if you’re triggered or traumatized by walking into a building. I don’t know that I could walk into a big church right now. Like I just don’t think I could, I think I would have a hard time with that. Mary DeMuth: So for us, how we went about it and everyone’s going to be different, we did want to land somewhere because we just feel like we’re in that stage of, we want to serve the church. And so for our little parameters, and I think it’ll be different for every person. Ours was, it needs to be local. And we’re hoping that there will be people there already that we’re friends with. Mary DeMuth: And since we’re in a little town, right? So there’s, 1 billion churches and little towns in Texas, right? So we had plenty to choose from so many, and we didn’t even get to all of them, but that was our parameter in choosing a home. In fact, we just officially joined a church yesterday. So it did take some time to get to that place. But I just want to let you know that it’s normal to be scared, to be triggered, to be in pain. Mary DeMuth: Don’t let it stay there. You are wounded in a negative community and the Lord is very frustrating and he asks you to be healed in good community. That’s hard. But a relational wound requires a relational cure, and that’s one reason why Patrick and I have been pouring into people who are hurt because we want to be that safer relationship for people to be falling apart or hurting or ask really blunt questions and be really ticked off. Because I believe people are healed in community when they’re wounded in community. Julie Roys: 100%. And I know when I came through just so much grief and pain and church hurt. I know a lot of people go to therapy and I’m not against therapy, but I was like, I don’t need to talk to this about this with a counselor. It’s just not like that. I need to be in a community where there’s love. I need to see beauty in people like again. And even though I’m afraid to be vulnerable on some levels at the same time, I’m compelled to be vulnerable because I know until you do that, you can’t heal. Mary DeMuth: When we met with the person who became our pastor and there’s a multiplicity of pastors in this particular denomination, but we sat across from him and we told him our story and he just listened, and he dignified the story. And then he said this, he said, we just want to love you. And I just immediately just, I was like, what? you don’t want to use me? Cause we’ve been in leadership positions in the church for so long, our whole adult lives we’ve been in those positions and for him to say, we just want to love you. And that was foreign to me, but that was the beginning of that healing journey. Julie Roys: I had a pastor at one of the churches we visited when we were in this search process. And it was at a very large church I would say it’s probably a megachurch, and we sat across from him and he said a very similar thing. It was really wonderful. And he said, “I think you guys have been wounded deeply, and you need a place to heal. And we do just want to love you. What was interesting is when I came back to him with a follow up email, because part of me is like wait, this is a megachurch. Am I insane? Julie Roys: I’m just like looking at it and being like,  I don’t think this is at all what I want. And then I emailed him. I said, we want a pastor. Would you be able to pastor us? And then he basically declined as nicely as he could; like I’d love to be, but I can’t and I’m like I don’t need a small group leader to try and pastor me. I was just kind of like of course, you can’t because you have the corporation to run. And so that is again a fundamental issue that I do have with the mega church. Julie Roys: One thing I found and I see it here, because I don’t know how many people in the Chicago area who have left Willow Creek and ended up at Harvest. They’re like, wow, di I know how to pick them! They’re going from something that’s become familiar. And if you became a believer at Willow, then that big model, that big service, whiz bang entertaining sermon or inspirational talk, whatever you want to call it. Julie Roys: Although I’ll say at Harvest, he preached he discipled people. I know a lot of people from Harvest that were discipled shockingly by a really depraved pastor. But I see them going from what they’re used to. And it’s almost like when I see people who grew up in a dysfunctional home and thank God you didn’t do this, but they often then replicate that in their own home, or they’re attracted to that same kind of dysfunction in the next home. Julie Roys: And I’ve seen it with churches and I’m just like, why are you going to the same model of church that you just left? And I see that there’s this thought in their head that it’s just the one bad apple. That’s all it is. It’s the one bad apple, but basically there’s nothing wrong with the system. Julie Roys: I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the system. So speak to that. Do you think, I know you’ve got some pretty strong opinions now about celebrity megachurches, even though you said some megachurches we’ve seen work. Do you have some thoughts about the model of church and what makes a safe church? Mary DeMuth: Yes. So many thoughts. I’ll start with a story. In the early two thousand, I went to my first Christian writers conference before I was published and on the airplane on the way there, my story flashed before my eyes and I said, Lord I’ve withstood a lot of trials. Like I’ve gone through a lot of trials. Mary DeMuth: And he said clearly to me, you have withstood many trials, but will you withstand the trial of notoriety? And that has stayed in my mind all these years because fame emaciates, fame makes you think that you’re better than other people and that people exist to serve you rather than you equipping the saints for the work of service. Mary DeMuth: And when the systems are in a place, typically what happens is the ego takes over. There’s something deep within the narcissistic system. And in the narcissistic pastor, they have this wound that they can’t fill except by acclaim. And then it’s like a drug, so they have to keep being acclaimed. They cannot have negative things said about them. Mary DeMuth: Therefore, the next thing they’ll do is they will dismantle the elder board, or they will significantly reduce the influence of the elder board that exists or completely dismantle it altogether. They will gather yes-men around themselves who will only say positive things to them that are not in their context that cannot see them do the bad things And who are other megachurch pastors. So there’s just this like cabal of megachurch pastors that are sitting on each other’s boards saying you can do whatever you want and have fun. Mary DeMuth: That system is ungodly and that will cause the fall of many leaders, which we have already seen over and over and over. It’s like a broken record of sameness. It keeps happening. Why? Because I think we are creating a church structure from a pyramid, which if you look in the Bible, the Israelites left Egypt, but were still looking back at it. One person at the top, one Pharaoh at the top, one supreme ruler, and then everybody has to fit into that system underneath that pyramid. Mary DeMuth: Whereas the kingdom of God is the opposite of that. It’s an inverted pyramid. The kingdom is of people that are last to are not acknowledged. And I think we’re going to be super surprised at where they are standing in line and the new heavens and the new earth, the people with all the acclaim are going to be way at the back. The people that nobody knew about that were silently and quietly serving the Lord are going to be at the front of the line. And we’re going to say, tell me your story, I want to learn from you. Mary DeMuth: But these structures cause the downfall of many men who do not have the character to hold up that structure. They’ve been given leadership responsibility without having maturity, and therefore they are stealing sermons. They are harming people with their words. They are demonizing others. They are all sorts of things you talked about last week. They’re doing those things because they have to keep their empire because their ego needs it so badly. Julie Roys: And the other thing is, and we can’t really even go into this, although I know you see this too, because you run your own literary agency, is that the evangelical industrial complex needs these celebrity pastors to function. So they need the publishing companies need the celebrities so that they can publish them, so that the megachurches need the celebrity to fuel their model of that great attractional speaker that can be everything. Which again, does just feed into the narcissism and it attracts the narcissism. Julie Roys: We like the narcissist. And the whole entire moneymaking empire runs on these narcissists and these celebrity pastors. And so it’s not just even the pastor himself who needs to be a celebrity, but it’s this system that needs celebrities. And at some point, Mary we’ve got to deal with this and evangelicalism, or we’re just going to keep doing this over and over and over again. Mary DeMuth: And I believe the Lord is bringing judgment on those systems. And we’re seeing that in publishing as well. I think it’s a broken system. We make these requirements of how popular you are to be able to be an author. In the nineties and before, it was really about can you write a good book? Is it theologically sound? Do you have a good mind? Do you have a heart to minister to others? And now it’s how many social media followers do you have? Which is you can buy those. Mary DeMuth: So what does that even mean? I hate being a cog in the Christian industrial complex, both as an author and as a literary agent, but as an agent, I feel like I’m championing projects that would otherwise not get sold. That are more global voices people that are marginalized and not often given a voice. So that’s why I have a literary agency. Cause I’m trying to have those voices platformed. Julie Roys: Before you go, I want to ask you also about, we’ve talked a little bit about a safe church, but what makes somebody a safe person as you’re trying to process this? Mary DeMuth: A safe person is someone who doesn’t speak initially, who is an active listener. Who doesn’t jump to conclusions, who doesn’t feel the need to defend the church that you are leaving, who doesn’t say things like Hebrew says don’t forsake your assembling together. Those kinds of like cliche, like super cliche oh, you better do this instead of just meeting you in your grief. Mary DeMuth: A safe person doesn’t try to change your state. They come alongside you into your state and they weep alongside. And that to me is so powerful. People won’t remember what you said, but they will remember that you were there with them in the pain. And we’re just willing to say, yeah, that hurts. And, oh, that must’ve been very painful. Just that empathy piece. Julie Roys: And they won’t shame you for deconstructing. They’ll walk with you; they’ll allow you to process. And I hate that when I see that. I see it on social media all the time, people denigrating people who are deconstructing and I’m like, maybe if you didn’t do that, maybe they wouldn’t be walking away from their faith. But again, deconstructing, I think takes a lot of different forms. I think for a lot of people that have gone through it; they’ve come back to a richer faith that stripped of maybe some of the baggage that they had previously. Julie Roys: Before I let you go, because I know a lot of people listening are in this place of just really, really  struggling and in a lot of hurt. And I know you have names and faces for those people too. Would you be willing to just pray for them and what they’re going through right now? Mary DeMuth: I will. And I’m just going to mention, I have a free resource, MARYDEMUTH.COM/CHURCHHURT. And it’s a hundred statements about things that people feel when they’re going through church hurt so that you can share it with a friend and check off the ones that are you, and then have a good conversation about it. Julie Roys: Wonderful. What a great resource. Thank you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Okay. Let me pray. Lord, thank you for loving the least of these. Thank you for leaving the 99 and chasing the one. Thank you for being counterintuitive. Thank you for the Sermon on the Mount. Thank you for your grace being sufficient for us and your power is made perfect in our weakness. Mary DeMuth: Lord, forgive us for these systems where we are worshiping strength, power, and numbers when that’s nothing to do with your kingdom. Reorient our lives and our hearts to what is your kingdom. Help us to hear your voice in the midst of the madness and the muddledness of what this has become. I pray that you would send friends to my friends who are suffering in the aftermath of spiritual abuse and church hurt. Mary DeMuth: I pray for hope Lord in these kinds of situations, it can feel like a death, and it feels very hopeless and sad. I pray for comfort and pray all of this in your beautiful name, Jesus. Amen. Julie Roys: Amen. Mary. Thank you so much. And how beautiful that even in this you are ministering to others through it. So I am just so grateful for you and for Patrick and for what you bring to the kingdom. And thank you so much for being willing to talk so vulnerably and bravely. So thank you. Mary DeMuth: Thank you. Julie Roys: And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and I want to invite all of you to our next Restore Conference in Phoenix in February 2025. Julie Roys: This is one of the most healing gatherings I know of, where you won’t just hear from amazing folks like Mary DeMuth and Scott McKnight, author of A Church Called Tove, and Dr. David Pooler, an expert in adult clergy sexual abuse. But you’ll also meet lots of other people who have gone through similar experiences, and I’ve found that just being in that kind of community is so healing. Julie Roys: And so powerful. So please come. I would love to meet you there. To find out more information, just go to RESTORE2025.COM. Also just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. Julie Roys: And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more

This week Merlin is joined by Jack Cornish, Jack is the author of a new book called The Lost Paths: A history of how we walk from there to here. He also holds the venerable title ‘head of paths' at The Ramblers - Britain's largest walking charity.Labour moots community buy-outs of derelict land // A quarter of a million socially rented homes lost in England // Government facing legal bid over wildlife collapse // And Britain's most expensive street bans cyclists and pedestriansThe Brief is supported by Bloomberg Connects, the free arts and culture app.Click here to get early, ad-free access to The Brief, and support accessible independent journalism from Open City.The Brief is recorded and produced at the Open City offices located in Bureau. Bureau is a co-working space for creatives offering a new approach to membership workspace. Bureau prioritises not just room to think and do, but also shared resources and space to collaborate. To book a free day pass follow this link.The Brief is produced in association with the Architects' Journal, and the C20 Society. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's our first new guest since the re-launch. Rianna and Richard talk to Erik Glasford, a section colleague of Rianna's who also took Criminal Law from Richard. Erik has a long history of mooting -- well before law school -- and he shares his love of it with the team. It turns out that it is never too early to start thinking about law!   Links: WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/     Music Attribution: What's Love Got to Do With It by Tina Turner Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It

Jon & Chantel learn what "mooting" means during today's 2nd Date Update! Do you know?

This episode will be a new series on the 'Let's Talk' category, where we can all get the conversation going about all things Wicca, Magic and Spiritual Journeys. This time I want to talk to you all about the reasons on why you would join a coven, a magical path or spiritual group. To find covens take a look at: Gardnerian Seekers Alexandrian Seekers Mandragora Magika To find Moots or pagan groups: Pagan Federation The book I mention is 'Traditional Wicca: A Seeker's Guide' by Thorn Mooney.

Timon is joined by Glenn Moots, professor of political science and philosophy at Northwood University, to talk about his book, Politics Reformed: The Anglo-American Legacy of Covenant Theology, recently re-released in paperback. The conversation ranges from historical resourcement to religious liberty to the founding period, with much more in between. 

This week on the pod we talk short early season stage races and possibly the shortest stage race ever. Tim saw a Moots and a Klein in a corner, and we all saw a Twike.  This podcast is also supported by the generous and amazing donors to the Wide Angle Podium Network.  Find us, and other fantastic cycling podcasts on the Wide Angle Podium Network, at wideanglepodium.com! Check out the brand new WAP app available in the Apple and Android app stores! You can listen to us in a variety of ways:  Find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or anywhere great podcasts are found. Give us a review and rating! We'd appreciate it! You can email us at theslowridepodcast@gmail.com Find us on Twitter: The show (@theslowridepod) Matt (@Matt46292097) Spencer (@spencerhaugh)

This audio is brought to you by Endress and Hauser, a leading supplier of products, solutions and services for industrial process measurement and automation. President Cyril Ramaphosa used his final State of the Nation Address ahead of upcoming elections to reiterate government's commitment to reforms in the country's failing power and logistics sectors, including one that would open the electricity transmission sector to private investors. Speaking against the backdrop of almost daily power disruptions, South Africa's worst-ever year for loadshedding in 2023, and a precipitous collapse in the freight rail service, which was constraining key commodity exports, Ramaphosa described the power and logistics crises as the "most important constraints on economic growth". Ahead of the speech, Business Unity South Africa called on the President to signal government's commitment to opening up space for greater participation by the private sector in building, operating, and maintaining critical logistics networks and generating energy. The organisation also called for a clear acknowledgement of the partnership between government and business in the areas of energy, logistics and crime and corruption. In his address, Ramaphosa listed a series of collaborative initiatives under way through the National Energy Crisis Committee to tackle loadshedding and even expressed confidence that "the worst is behind us and the end of loadshedding is finally within reach" - a claim that was met with audible scepticism from opposition lawmakers. Included in his list was a series of initiatives to facilitate new private generation, as well as the financial support extended to Eskom last year under a R254-billion debt-relief package, which Ramaphosa said was helping the utility fund much-needed maintenance. Also highlighted was the connection of 2 500 MW of utility-scale wind and solar following the revival of the public renewable-energy programme five years ago, as well as the procurement of projects with a combined capacity three times that, some of which were already under construction. The President also noted that 120 utility-scale private generation projects were under development following the removal of the licensing requirement for such facilities. The doubling last year in the capacity of solar photovoltaic installed on household and business rooftops was lauded as a success, even though most of these investments were made in response to extreme power disruptions. The installed base is now estimated to be above 5 000 MW. Without specifically referencing the grid constraints that were preventing new generators from connecting to the network, the President said that 14 000 km of new transmission lines would be built to accommodate more renewable energy. "To fast-track this process, we will enable private investment in transmission infrastructure through a variety of innovative investment models," he announced. Further reforms - including a major legislative overhaul outlined in the Electricity Regulation Amendment Bill, currently serving before lawmakers - would facilitate a future "competitive, sustainable and reliable" electricity supply industry. While insisting that the transition away from coal would proceed at a "pace, scale and cost that our country can afford and in a manner that ensures energy security", he also highlighted the economic potential associated with the green economy. "With our abundance of solar, wind and mineral resources, we are going to create thousands of jobs in renewable energy, green hydrogen, green steel, electric vehicles and other green products." Ramaphosa also noted that financing pledges for the country's Just Energy Transition Investment Plan had increased from about R170-billion to almost R240-billion and announced the establishment of a Climate Change Response Fund to "build our resilience and respond to the impacts of climate change". On the freight logistics crisis, the President insisted that action was...

This audio is brought to you by Endress and Hauser, a leading supplier of products, solutions and services for industrial process measurement and automation. President Cyril Ramaphosa used his final State of the Nation Address ahead of upcoming elections to reiterate government's commitment to reforms in the country's failing power and logistics sectors, including one that would open the electricity transmission sector to private investors. Speaking against the backdrop of almost daily power disruptions, South Africa's worst-ever year for loadshedding in 2023, and a precipitous collapse in the freight rail service, which was constraining key commodity exports, Ramaphosa described the power and logistics crises as the "most important constraints on economic growth". Ahead of the speech, Business Unity South Africa called on the President to signal government's commitment to opening up space for greater participation by the private sector in building, operating, and maintaining critical logistics networks and generating energy. The organisation also called for a clear acknowledgement of the partnership between government and business in the areas of energy, logistics and crime and corruption. In his address, Ramaphosa listed a series of collaborative initiatives under way through the National Energy Crisis Committee to tackle loadshedding and even expressed confidence that "the worst is behind us and the end of loadshedding is finally within reach" - a claim that was met with audible scepticism from opposition lawmakers. Included in his list was a series of initiatives to facilitate new private generation, as well as the financial support extended to Eskom last year under a R254-billion debt-relief package, which Ramaphosa said was helping the utility fund much-needed maintenance. Also highlighted was the connection of 2 500 MW of utility-scale wind and solar following the revival of the public renewable-energy programme five years ago, as well as the procurement of projects with a combined capacity three times that, some of which were already under construction. The President also noted that 120 utility-scale private generation projects were under development following the removal of the licensing requirement for such facilities. The doubling last year in the capacity of solar photovoltaic installed on household and business rooftops was lauded as a success, even though most of these investments were made in response to extreme power disruptions. The installed base is now estimated to be above 5 000 MW. Without specifically referencing the grid constraints that were preventing new generators from connecting to the network, the President said that 14 000 km of new transmission lines would be built to accommodate more renewable energy. "To fast-track this process, we will enable private investment in transmission infrastructure through a variety of innovative investment models," he announced. Further reforms - including a major legislative overhaul outlined in the Electricity Regulation Amendment Bill, currently serving before lawmakers - would facilitate a future "competitive, sustainable and reliable" electricity supply industry. While insisting that the transition away from coal would proceed at a "pace, scale and cost that our country can afford and in a manner that ensures energy security", he also highlighted the economic potential associated with the green economy. "With our abundance of solar, wind and mineral resources, we are going to create thousands of jobs in renewable energy, green hydrogen, green steel, electric vehicles and other green products." Ramaphosa also noted that financing pledges for the country's Just Energy Transition Investment Plan had increased from about R170-billion to almost R240-billion and announced the establishment of a Climate Change Response Fund to "build our resilience and respond to the impacts of climate change". On the freight logistics crisis, the President insisted that action was...

Billy Sinkford, Vice President of Echos Communications, discusses the genesis of the MADE show and its impact on the handmade bike community. He shares his experience as a former bike messenger and how it led him to work in the urban cycling industry. Billy also highlights the importance of brand representation and storytelling in the cycling industry. He provides insights into the success of the first MADE show and gives a preview of what to expect in the upcoming shows in Portland and Melbourne. Don't miss this exciting conversation about the future of the handmade bike community. Episode Sponsor: AG1 MADE Bicycle Show  Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. [00:00:29] Craig Dalton (host): This week on the show. I welcome Billy. Sinford from the maid bicycle show in Portland, Oregon. You may recall if you're a listener from last year that I attended the show. In 2023 and had dozens of interviews with fantastic frame builders from around the country. I super enjoyed the show, the experience, the overall vibe of the show. So I was thrilled to get some communication from echos communications that the show is on. Again for 2024, I wanted to get a little bit of the backstory and inspiration for the show. And learn some secrets about the upcoming show in 2024. Little did I know at the end of this episode, I was going to learn about yet another exciting new development. I'll leave you with that. And we'll wait till the end, until we find out that secret from Billy. But before we get started, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor a G one. Taking care of your health. Isn't always easy, but it should at least be simple. That's why for me, for the last decade, I've been drinking age one every day, no exceptions. It's just one scoop mixed in water once a day, every day. And it makes me feel energized and ready to take on the day. That's because each serving of AIG one delivers my daily dose of vitamins minerals and pre and probiotics and more, it's a powerful, healthy habit that also is powerfully simple. Okay, let me go back a decade and explain why. became an essential part of my daily routine. I come to recognize that nutritionally, I just wasn't covering my bases with my diets. I was often cutting corners and just not getting the nutrients and vitamins I was looking for. I started thinking about taking a multivitamin or multiple multivitamins. And that didn't drive with me as well. I knew I wasn't going to be able to maintain consistency. Without something simple in my life. But with ag one, I discovered that it's a simple powder that's mixed with water. Can do it very quickly. And it has everything and more than I was looking for. So I introduced into my life and I haven't gone back. Over a decade, which is pretty incredible for a product like this. So if there's one product I had to recommend to elevate your health that's ag one. And that's why I've partnered with them for so long. I think they've been part of the show for over three years now. So, if you want to take ownership of your health, start with a G one. Tri AIG one and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D plus K2. And five free AIG one travel packs with your first purchase. Exclusively at drink, AIG one.com/the gravel ride. That's drink AIG one.com/the gravel ride to check it out today. Without behind us, let's jump right into my conversation with Billy. [00:03:24] Craig Dalton (host): Billy, welcome to the show. [00:03:25] Billy Sinkford: Thank you for having me, Craig. It's a pleasure to be here. [00:03:29] Craig Dalton (host): I know it's a busy week for you guys at MADE, so I appreciate you making the time and I'm excited to kind of just talk about the show. I did a bunch of episodes and Certainly had a bunch of conversations with frame builders during my visit to made in 2023. So I'm excited to just talk about the plans for 2024, but to set the stage for the conversation, we always like to kind of roll back a little bit and just understand, how did you develop a passion for the bike? Did you grow up riding? So why don't you start off by just letting us know where you grew up and how you discovered the bike and how that journey ultimately took you to kind of being in the industry as a professional. [00:04:10] Billy Sinkford: Well, first off, thanks for coming to MAID in 2023. It was awesome to have you and love the videos that you put out surrounding it. And we're stoked for 2024. We'll get, we'll get there though. I was a bike messenger in Boston in the late 90s and early 2000s. Uh, that was my first job working on the bike, uh, all day, uh, rain or snow, uh, in Boston, and did that, uh, for quite some time. Eventually ended up moving to San Francisco, uh, where I also was a, a bike messenger after a brief stint, uh, in divinity school, uh, which I decided was not, not for me. And from there, I started working with chrome industries and started working in kind of the urban cycling field of things. And, you know, for lack of a better term, I weaseled and worked my way into a job at chrome and. Um, my, the director of marketing at Chrome, Rob Reedy, who is my business partner at Echos. He's the CEO of Echos and I'm the VP, uh, gave me a chance and gave me a job and we worked together for years over at Chrome and eventually, uh, founded Echos Communications, which is a PR and marketing firm for, Active outdoors, uh, with a huge focus on cycling and I am fortunate enough to be the vice president of that and manage, uh, manage our cycling stuff that echoes communications. So that, that's [00:05:47] Craig Dalton (host): how I got there. I'm curious if, if you go back to those days as a courier, my experience with the courier community there, there were certainly some couriers who were bike racers, bike lovers, lovers of all things, bikes, and they discovered curry being a courier as a vocation that allowed them to, you know, work on their bike and stay fit. I've also heard from many of those same. Bike racer couriers that it's a horrible way to train because it's so hard on your body. So I'm just curious, were you, you know, part of that courier culture and the bike was a work mechanism and you fell in love with that, you know, the fixie kind of culture, or was there another thread of your passion for the bike that was mountain biking or road racing at the time? [00:06:35] Billy Sinkford: When I was in Boston, it was definitely about the culture and community, and the bike was just the tool that allowed for all of that to happen. When I moved out to San Francisco, the company that I worked for, Godspeed Courier, we had a race team. I was partially in charge of all the sponsorships and helped out a lot of the company. Definitely, uh, started wearing spandex and shaving our legs and going and doing local crits. And at that time road races, it was all road, uh, for me back then in the San Francisco Bay area and competed at all kinds of road races, uh, underneath the Godspeed courier banner. But I was, uh, I was a heavy dude. I still am a, I'm a big guy and I never, uh, I went out and just. Beat the crap out of everybody for the first 20 miles and then basically did an 80 mile bike ride by myself after the rest of the race, but I absolutely loved it. And it was a different kind of community and that definitely carried over. And, you know, I certainly by no means of. Kept up with it or pinned a number in a long time. I did last year for a minute, but, uh, definitely still enjoy being sometimes at the pointy end of the spear. Um, but yeah, messengering definitely brought me into that race culture. And then that carried over into my time in the industry, without a doubt. [00:07:55] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, obviously like Chrome had its parts of his origin from that culture and that vibe, that commuter, worker, the, you know, the well constructed bags and later the shoes and clothing that they brought into the mix as you kind of represented them and were kind of earning your chops on the business side of the bike industry. What were you learning in that time that you kind of took forward about how brands need to be represented to cyclists in order to grow and be relevant? [00:08:28] Billy Sinkford: Working in the urban cycling side of things first was, was really interesting and I think it relates to stuff in the handmade market. I think it relates to cycling as a whole because we, and sometimes think of ourselves as this huge entity, right? In reality, cycling is a niche sport and a niche hobby. Uh, so looking at it through that lens and then knowing that urban cycling was a niche within. That niche, uh, we called it don't Timbuktu it back in the day Timbuktu started stopping selling messenger bags and started selling travel luggage and briefcases for a, for a brief minute. And at Chrome, we just made sure we didn't Timbuktu it. And we were trying to stay. With the core sponsoring messenger races, making sure that we're not only sponsored them, but we're actively present at the races and engaging with the community and bringing a cool vibe and having a good time. And that I think has carried over into everything that we've done at echoes and hopefully what we've brought to, uh, the cycling community at large. And that's the present. Be there and and be a part of the community. [00:09:42] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, I think there's so much to obviously the storytelling of these brands that is so critical and how they resonate with fans and consumers of these products [00:09:55] Billy Sinkford: and it's really easy to lose it quite quickly. So, you know, having a good mission statement, understanding what your brand is, and actually standing by that and standing behind it, standing behind the community that you're, you're making products for, and hopefully. An active part of that community. Do those, you're, you're going to be on the side of right. Yeah, you [00:10:17] Craig Dalton (host): mentioned some of the work you do at echoes and just to set the stage for when we later talk about the maid show. Can you talk about some of the clients you've had the privilege of working with over the years? And then we'll get into what was the genesis behind the idea for [00:10:34] Billy Sinkford: made? Sure. We have had the privilege and pleasure and honest. I'd say honor of working with a lot of really amazing brands and folks within those brands. We started definitely on the urban cycling tip, but with that, we also, you know, feedback sports and, and mission workshop where our two first clients as an agency. Uh, we launched and ran the Levi's Commuter Program, uh, for the first three years of doing that and did all of the global or national events rather, uh, bike shops and community building stuff around that. And that was super fun and and rad to, to work along the Levi's, uh, Levi's crew and their team. Blackburn. Uh, we've worked with Greg Lamond. Uh, currently we've got an awesome, I guess, what's most relevant to the handmade community. Mosaic cycles, Argonaut cycles, Lowe, uh, we're currently, uh, and have been for quite some time working with Moots, Paul Components, Paul's a dear friend of mine, and we worked with him for several years, Abby Bike Tools, so everything, uh, we brought together. Bosch to market here in the United States a couple months before Shimano got got into the e bike game here Uh worked with a ton of e bike brands So companies large and small we are just started working with Campagnolo, uh, which is phenomenal and we're really thrilled about that we've had the pleasure of working with over 100 bike brands and i've gotten to Floyd's of Leadville and Floyd Landis, dear friend, and we managed all of the, uh, PR and some of the marketing for all of his CBD stuff and, uh, and his Floyd's 5 cannabis as well. So, gotten to work alongside people that I idolized when I was a messenger and had them become not only business associates, but folks that I call friends. Um, so it's been, it's been a wild journey and, uh, and we're still, we're still, I think, just getting started. [00:12:36] Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. We were talking a little bit offline about the North American Handmade Bike Show, and it sounds like you've had a relationship, understandably so, with the brands you tended to represent with that show for, for many years. Can you just talk about kind of your memories of that show and the place it kind of held in the industry [00:12:56] Billy Sinkford: for you? Oh, I loved nabs. Absolutely loved it. Uh, used to go just as a, you know, marketing and PR guy for the brands that we worked with. Uh, so always had 5 or 6 builders or brands, uh, on the show floor that we were working with. Uh, we did, uh, for a brief period of time for a little under 2 years, actually manage all the PR for the show itself when it was in Salt Lake City. Uh, obviously the show is not around anymore and, uh, Don and I. I've had a tumultuous relationship throughout the last, uh, 15 years for sure. Um, but. What Don did on the North American Handmade Bike Show, I think was phenomenal for the builder community and nothing that we're doing, I think, would be possible without the groundwork that went into that. Both from Don, so kudos to him, and then also the builder community for showing up and being present. You know, being willing to put their energy and effort into something that has turned out to be really, really great or for the builder community. So I think the show was great. It was sad to see it go, but it also gave us the opportunity to start made, which is something that 10. I mean, it's been 10 years plus, since we've been kind of talking about potentially. Helping put together a different version of a handmade bike show, a more modern version of it. And with Navs no longer taking place, the builder community asked us if we would step up to the plate and make it happen. We were fortunate enough to be able to. To, to do that, so it's been, it's been pretty cool. [00:14:39] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, you know, obviously, like, with NABS going away, there was this pent up demand and enthusiasm for the builders to get together. To your point, NABS was just such a great gathering of such a diverse group of artisan frame builders that was so different than any other bicycle show that was around at the time. When you started to see, like, NABS is not there. We are seeing this opportunity. We're going to take this mantle. It seems like it would be a daunting challenge to go from that idea to actually producing made. What was the decision making process? What did that look like for you? Or did you ask yourself what? If we can just get 20 brands to commit early, I feel like there's enough momentum that we can do this. I'm just curious to get into your, your mind and your colleagues minds about when was the go, no go decision and what was that process like? [00:15:38] Billy Sinkford: Well, COVID, we had wanted to do this before COVID. Luckily, we did not pull the trigger on, uh, any form of trade show prior to that, because that would have definitely changed things. Uh, You know, nobody could travel. Nobody would have been able to show up. Uh, the community support, uh, my partner, Rob and I, uh, spoke to a bunch of builders, spoke to a bunch of brands, uh, brands that support the builder community. So Chris Kang specifically being 1 of them who we also we do, uh, manage their PR and everybody. One after one, people said, yes, please do this. And yes, we'll help support it. And there weren't any nose and we just kept hearing. Yes. So we started looking at it from a logistic standpoint and realize that that we could pull this off and that it could be awesome. Originally, it was supposed to be entirely outside because of the pandemic. And we didn't know. What that was going to look like and we kind of wanted to safeguard the show and there's a very, very brief window in Portland where the weather is fantastic. Uh, and we, we've got it right now or made it was. Wildly unseasonably hot during the, uh, the first year of the show, but, uh, the venue that we found is phenomenal, uh, and old abandoned shipyard, uh, I mean, you, you saw it yourself. It's, it's perfect for the handmade, uh, market probably wouldn't work for. A bike show where track and specialized and giant wanted to show up and do their things. But for those that are actually working with their hands and, you know, making metal more metal, uh, super cool environment, uh, for them to be in and the venue lined up and after that, you know, that's it. I won't say that all the pieces magically fell together. There was a lot of hard work from the entire team that made behind the scenes, but, uh, it came together and it, you know, hard work and then the support of the builder community, uh, really brought it all together and year one was fantastic. I mean, I know you didn't get to go for the consumer days, but we very purposefully had time so that you were able to be there and spend time creating content and talking with builders and the. The builder community hadn't been together in, in years because of the pandemic and the lack of nabs even before that. So we carved out a little bit of extra time for that and that was super fun and got to take 200 builders, media and industry people and my favorite ride through Forest Park, uh, which was phenomenal. So it wasn't just a show itself. I think it was the entire experience of being in Portland together and it was really cool. [00:18:25] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, absolutely. We got the food trucks in the back parking lot. Everything was just a lot of fun and I totally agree. It was, you know, nobody had to feel awkward about the style of booth they created or what they were bringing because it wasn't this super polished, super dome of convention centers or anything like that that we saw at Interbike. It was really, it felt very native to the handmade bicycle community for [00:18:51] Billy Sinkford: sure. And I think this year, you know, a lot of the, I would say 90 percent of the exhibitors, you know, we made a few videos, we, folks understood what they were walking into, to an extent. But it's one thing to see it online and read about it. It's another thing to actually be in the venue. And now, most of the exhibitors are coming back for, for year two, and they all know what things look like. So I think it'll be really cool to see how people take the space. And make their little, their portion of it their own and work with it. So, I think year one was rad and there were some folks that had some killer, killer booth designs that you would never, ever in your wildest dreams see at Eurobike or Interbike or Sea Otter. Um, and I think it worked out great that we weren't entirely outside because looking at some Consumer facing shows, which are all awesome, but it's a sea of 10 by 10 and 10 by 20 pop up tents, and we encourage people to bring tents so they've got their branding, but some of the cooler booths were, you know, handmade from wood that people brought with them, and it was super neat to see not only the folks showing, It's amazing work that they're doing, uh, but then also, you know, building a booth out that reflects that was, was [00:20:04] Craig Dalton (host): really unique. A hundred percent. It's just sort of, you know, everybody in the handmade community is so creative and just to allow them to have that freedom to develop their own displays. Super cool to see. And super fun for me to see some of the frame builders that I hadn't seen in a while, but also like a whole, probably 30 percent of them I'd never heard of before. And it was just great. Having that opportunity to get their point of view to see their manufacturing techniques to see how, you know, they're taking, you know, in the instance of maybe frameworks taking aerospace tooling and machines that aren't always available to other artisans and using that because they have access to it to create just kind of a unique. Process for creating a bike. Super fascinating to talk to guys like that. There [00:20:53] Billy Sinkford: were, I have been, because we've been extremely deep and the handmade community for a long time, and I'm fortunate to call a lot of these folks, my friends, and prior to putting on made, I really thought that I had a pretty good grasp of what was going on in the handmade community and who was who. And one of the biggest things that we did with the show was offering subsidized space. Making sure that bike flights was helping with discounted shipping, uh, there was not like a large host hotel that people felt they needed to stay at. So the show became really accessible and a lot of the younger builders and builders that did not show up at nabs came and exhibited, uh, made. Also, some of the, the legends, my generation, not, not to totally date myself, but they're not spring chickens anymore. And some of them are hanging up the torch, uh, and, or don't want to stand on their feet for, for three days. Um, they've, they've passed that. So having a lot of the younger builders and new builders at the show and not having the new builder row be In the absolute back of the hall, like it was at NABs, I made sure we were dispersing, you know. That you, a new builder was directly next to an established builder, and unless you're super deep in the industry, there was no way to tell the difference. You walked up to pretty much anybody exhibiting, and you were there to hear their story and not, uh, I don't know. It was really, it was cool. And I had to not, I did not spend a lot of time looking at the bikes during the show, which was really, really hard. I love taking photographs. I spent a lot of time. Documenting bikes in my free time, and I purposefully didn't bring a camera to the show and tried not to ogle the work during the show. Late, late at night after everybody had gone home, that's when I did it. But, uh, it was just phenomenal craftsmanship throughout the entire haul. It was awesome. [00:23:04] Craig Dalton (host): I was there for obviously the media day and partway into the, the consumer day started, I think, around noon on the Friday and I was there till about two. So I just started to get the first wave of consumers. What was that like, you know, midday Saturday or whenever peak traffic was, if you were there as a consumer, [00:23:25] Billy Sinkford: there were a couple of minutes where we were, we were pushing the limits of what that all could do for sure. Uh, we have far more people than we expected. Uh, It was awesome. I mean, just so full, uh, unfortunately, extremely hot, and we had fans running like crazy and, uh, ran out to get every little bit of water that we could. Unfortunately, there were forest fires, uh, in other parts of Oregon and Washington, and all the water trucks and everything that we had kind of helped get together was unavailable. Um, but we made it work. Uh, there were A couple thousand consumers in that hall on Saturday. We had over 5, 000 people come through between when it opened to the public on Friday and when we closed the doors for tear down, uh, on Sunday. So for year one, that was unbelievable, but the energy was super high and people were there. They were talking with builders, looking at bikes. Uh, it was, it was really cool to watch. It was fun to have a quiet moment where. Media industry folks, we all got to kind of hug and high five and, and then it was when we opened the gates on Friday, it was, uh, it's a whole, whole nother, it was almost two shows in one, [00:24:39] Craig Dalton (host): quite frankly. Yeah, certainly a three day grind for those builders to. Talk to everybody and keep their energy high. [00:24:49] Billy Sinkford: And we're, we're actually changing the format of the show this year. So we had a full day and a half that was for media and industry to kind of catch up and we did a poll of all the builders and brands after the show, and it was honestly split about 50 50 as to whether or not people wanted that extra time. Or we would do just a half day of media hours before we opened to the public. For the second year of the show, we're going to. Give it a shot the other way and do, uh, Friday morning will be just media and industry and then again, we'll open to the public and do Saturday and Sunday, but that will make the show shorter and for a lot of these builders, regardless of what size or scale operation they are every day that they're not. At the shop, that's a bike that's not going out to the customer, and this is not a large frame, a large bicycle company, for that matter, where it's happening, no matter whether the director of marketing is on the floor, like you're there talking to the builder, and that person is not making a frame for a customer, so we're trying to be cognizant. Excuse me, cognizant of that and do everything that we're going to do, but keep it a little bit shorter so that they can get back to the shop and make sure that they're doing what they need to do for their customers. [00:26:06] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Do you have a sense on the consumer side in terms of where people were traveling in from if they were obviously Portland's host to such a great community? I'm sure there was tons of Portland locals who could drive in and enjoy the show. It was a first year show, but did you get a sense that people were flying in to [00:26:24] Billy Sinkford: experience this? From the moment we announced that we had folks from all over the world that said that they were coming. There were people from Japan, Australia, uh, Europe coming from all over a lot of folks from the East Coast. I think. California, Portland, I mean, we're dominant without a doubt because it's very easy for them to travel or much easier for them to travel to the show. But some of the first emails that we got after announcing the show were from fans of custom bikes and people that own custom bikes that wanted to come and they were going to make this their vacation from Japan, Australia. And it was. Really rad to have this be a global show, not only reflected in the builders that were there because we also had builders from all over the world. This was not just Portland and California builders. We had folks from the east coast and uh, from all over the place. And this year for 2024, uh, the roster of builders and brands that are attending reflects that even more deeply. Folks all coming back and then new folks coming from Australia and we've got folks coming from the west or east coast rather, that came in. Kind of peep the show a little bit to make sure that it was something that they wanted to come to and now, uh, now they're, they're coming out for year two and, and are going to be part of the show. [00:27:42] Craig Dalton (host): That's a good segue into anything you'd want to highlight for year two. Any changes? Are there going to be more, more booths, more people? What, what can we expect in 2024? [00:27:53] Billy Sinkford: Uh, more explosions, more people, hopefully no explosions. Uh, uh, I think we've got certainly more builders, more brands. We had to extend the floor plan. So there's going to be an outdoor area as well as the indoor area this year. More food carts, more coffee. We'll still have the beer garden over there. And we're going to make sure to pop a little shade on top of that so that people can sit out there, even if it is a little bit hot. Uh, but I think there just are gonna be a variety of builders from even farther, uh, across the world. And I'm, the coolest thing that I've seen is we made it a big point to have subsidized space and to invite builders from all over the place and to make sure that if they needed help financially. That we could still have them at the show. We wanted to make sure that the builder community was represented as a whole. And there are builders that showed up and took those subsidized spaces that are now getting 10 by 20s at the show. Uh, that are saying that it was so amazing that they want to come back and have an even larger presence. So that to me was the coolest part is the show and the model works there. You know. That, that really warmed my heart quite a bit to see that happen in several instances. [00:29:12] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, that says a lot. Tell us the dates of the Portland, Oregon show and where people can find out more information about it. [00:29:20] Billy Sinkford: Uh, yeah. Made. bike is our website. You don't need a dot com. We've got dot bike. So just made. bike and we will. Uh, make a lot of noise when we start selling, uh, consumer facing tickets for the show. Uh, the floor plan is ostensibly sold out and I still have a bit more of the wait list, uh, to work through. So, uh, if you're interested in, uh, being a part of the show, definitely get in touch sooner rather than later so we can see what we can do. Uh, but it'll be this summer, uh, August 23rd through 25th in Portland, Oregon at Zydell Yards, which is right on the Portland waterfront just outside of downtown. Uh, and you can find us on Instagram at made. bike as well. And is [00:30:06] Craig Dalton (host): there a risk that consumer tickets may sell out? Do people need to get on a mailing list or become aware pretty early in your [00:30:13] Billy Sinkford: process? Uh, it certainly can't hurt. Uh, we do have fire marshal limits that we're working within, uh, but I think we can very easily accommodate double the number of, uh, consumers that we have, uh, last year or so. We're hoping that people buy them in advance one because then it's less paper. It's a lot easier and we're able to get people through quicker, but we have not announced when we're going to start selling tickets to the public yet. We'll wait a little bit. Probably as the snow and rains start to start to thaw and stop falling here. We'll start thinking about it. [00:30:47] Craig Dalton (host): That makes sense. Well, everybody go over to made that bike and definitely get it on your radar for next year is a phenomenal fun show. So many beautiful bikes out there. And for those of you in an entirely different part of the world. I think we've got some breaking news. We can talk about now. Billy about another [00:31:05] Billy Sinkford: made show. Yeah, so this year MADE is expanding our footprint a little bit, and we are headed to Australia. Actually, we're headed to Australia before the main MADE show here in the United States. And it's going to be held in Melbourne. We've got a wonderful director of show, Andy White from Fixo, who is a longstanding friend of mine personally and of the agency as a whole. We've worked with him on a number of projects throughout the year, and he is extremely dedicated to documenting and being a part of the handmade culture in Australia. And we've already got commitments from an interest from Bomb Prova, Partington Wheels, the Lost Workshop, Delo Craft, and many, many more. And that is gonna be taking place June 28th and 29th, uh, at, uh, Darin, uh, verum, uh, just outside of Melbourne. And that also is coinciding with, uh, Andy's, uh, LAR. He has a large event called the the Melbourne. Uh, which takes place on the cobblestones, uh, in, in Melbourne, which I've never personally got a chance to, to witness. I've only witnessed it, uh, via the magic of the internet and I'm looking forward to going over and being a part of that event and then, uh, being present, uh, checking out the builder community in Australia. [00:32:33] Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, that's super exciting. I'll be curious to see if it's drawing builders from other parts of Asia, um, into that show and what a fascinating view you'll have to kind of go over and see that community and how it differs and how it's similar to what we have here in North America. [00:32:54] Billy Sinkford: I think there's some things that are universal to a degree, but. Every country is different. Uh, every builder is doing things differently. So, we're really looking forward to going over and hearing all the stories and seeing the work. I do think that there will be a larger draw. I think that. The USA show will always be the largest made show, uh, just because we're able to draw from, I think that we've got an awful lot of media here. We've got a really captive audience, uh, but Australia is quite far away as I am soon to find out on that plane ride. I've heard from people. Uh, so I think there are a lot of, a lot of builders that, you know, having a maid in Australia will give them a chance to get global exposure and connect with media and consumers in a way. Uh, That they haven't before and maybe there are some builders here from the United States that in 2025 decide that they're going to do both or maybe a builder here in the United States has already got great relationships with their customer base and the shops that they work with, uh, here and they want to go dip their toes into another country and see what's going on over there. And I think this will, this will give builders an opportunity to get even more exposure for [00:34:10] Craig Dalton (host): the work that they're doing. Yeah, it's super exciting and congratulations on the launch of that event. I can't wait to hear all about it. I can't wait to see you in Portland again this summer. Definitely one of my favorite shows that I attended as a podcaster and just overall enthusiast. So thanks for all your energy, Billy, you put into the industry as a whole and into the made show. [00:34:33] Billy Sinkford: It is my pleasure. Uh, we're really looking forward to MADE this year, uh, beyond looking forward to it. We're, we're thrilled. So it's hard to, hard to keep the excitement contained some days. I get to talk with so many cool people all the time. And it's going to be a rad year for MADE and a rad year for the handmade world as a whole. And thank you for taking the time to, to chat with me, Craig. Of course. My [00:34:55] Craig Dalton (host): pleasure. Cheers. Cheers. That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Billy for coming onto the show. Super excited about made 20, 24 in Portland and super excited for those of you down under in Australia. Perhaps my cousin Teebo to enjoy the made Australia experience in 2024. Also big, thanks to our friends at AIG one. Remember, check out, drink Agee. Dot com slash the gravel ride for those free travel packs and free supply of vitamin D plus K2. I hope you're doing well in 2024. And until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels. ​    

In Episode 44 of the Legal Genie Podcast, your host, Lara Quie, sits down with Chen Siyuan, Associate Professor and Associate Dean at SMU School of Law. Siyuan shares his intriguing journey from aspiring lawyer to Harvard graduate and Supreme Court professional, to enhancing SMU's Moots program as Director of Moots. This episode is a treasure trove of advice for young lawyers, emphasizing the importance of patience, effective time management, and adapting to AI advancements. Siyuan's story, blending tenacity, resilience, academic excellence, and foresight, offers invaluable insights into the evolving legal landscape and the art of mooting.You can reach out to Chen Siyuan via:His email: siyuanchen@smu.edu.sgOr via LinkedIn: Chen Siyuan on LinkedIn You may enjoy this documentary shot and edited by Chen Siyuan about SMU Mooters:https://youtu.be/SGJDMM0JHTk?si=IvvXqwylY1Ch-DxQLara Q Associates A boutique business and executive coaching consultancyDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the show Also: · If you liked this episode, please rate the show, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts to help the Legal Genie reach a wider audience. · Look out for the next episode coming soon. You can connect with Lara Quie: · On LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/laraquie · Website: https://www.laraqassociates.com · Or Email at Lara@LaraQAssociates.com

It's a Hop tu Naa special with Moots, Kate Rusby, False Lights, singing in Manx and turnip based verse from Annie Kissack!

This week we dive into the world of titanium frame building with Brad Bingham. Based in the Steamboat Springs, Colorado, Brad has been crafting custom frames for an impressive 27 years. Starting his journey as a welding enthusiast in high school, Brad's passion for making things led him to the art of bike building. But his skills go beyond frames – he even built his own home with the help of his retired custom home builder father. In this episode, Brad reveals the importance of learning how to do things for oneself and consulting experts. He shares his experience working for a dental equipment manufacturer before diving headfirst into the world of bikes. From working at renowned bike manufacturer Moots to eventually taking over Kent Erickson Cycles, Brad's journey is a testament to his dedication and expertise. Brad and our host, Randall Jacobs, delve into the nitty-gritty details of bike design. They discuss everything from tube selection and mitering to the impact of weight bias and alignment. Brad's deep knowledge of geometry, materials, and manufacturing processes makes this episode a must-listen for any bike enthusiast or aspiring frame builder. But what sets Brad apart from the rest? Well, his attention to detail and commitment to customer satisfaction are second to none. As the owner of Bingham Built Bikes, he prioritizes open communication and mutual respect. With his wife, Hannah, by his side, they handle everything from bike design and production to backend operations. Their tiny operation may be limited in size, but it's big on passion and craftsmanship. Binghm Built Bicycles Website Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I'm, I'm Brad Bingham. I'm, uh, based out of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, and I'm a custom titanium frame builder. Uh, been doing that here in Colorado for, gosh, going on what, 27 years? [00:00:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Wow. 20, 27 years, [00:00:20]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yep. [00:00:21]Randall Jacobs (host): you don't look, you started welding when you were like eight. [00:00:27]Brad Bingham: Uh, no. I, I really started welding in earnest, um, senior in high school. I. [00:00:35]Randall Jacobs (host): No kidding. [00:00:36]Brad Bingham: And then, yeah, I moved here to, to Steamboat right after I turned 20. And [00:00:41]Randall Jacobs (host): so me about those first welding experiences. How'd you get into it? Was it starting with bikes or was it, uh, a general, was it a vocational program? What was the nature of [00:00:51]Brad Bingham: it, it was very bike centric, so I, I knew that I wanted to construct bike frames, uh, mountain bikes specifically. And to do that, I needed to know how to, you know, join two tubes together. And at the time, I mean, I was 18 years old and didn't have any welding experience whatsoever. So I went and took a, uh, evening like, uh, community college TIG welding course. It was like a 75 hour course and took that in the, in the evenings after work. Um, And I walked in there with a couple of parted off pieces of Reynolds bike tubing and I said, I just need to know how to put these two things together. [00:01:40]Randall Jacobs (host): And so this is really, I mean, this has been your path in life since [00:01:45]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:45]Randall Jacobs (host): beginning. [00:01:46]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:01:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, that's, uh, it seems like an increasingly rare phenomenon to have such clarity at a young age at what you wanna do and then to go out and do it. So, uh, good on you. Some of us, some of us, it takes a lot longer. [00:01:58]Brad Bingham: Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was always really passionate about making things. I, I just always needed to be making something or working on something. And luckily the bikes found me, you know, 'cause I was a rider and, um, the idea of building bikes was, you know, not, not anything that crossed my mind until a good friend of mine said, well, why don't you just build your own. And that was, that was the genesis. [00:02:31]Randall Jacobs (host): So, and we were just talking a moment ago, I, I, I was apologizing for the, the state of affairs in my house. 'cause I'm in the process of building a new house around the husk of a, of a old derelict, but, but lovely, uh, home that I just purchased. And you mentioned you built your home as well. So tell me a little bit about that. I'm kind of curious about this builder mentality, [00:02:53]Brad Bingham: yeah. So yeah, I did not, you know, obviously I did not build the entire home myself. Um, my dad was a, um, was a custom home builder for 25 years, and so he was retired at the time, and this was 2000, like 2002 to 2004. Um, he had just recently finished a home helping out my sister build, build a home in Bend, Oregon. And so about a, uh, about a year, year and a half after that, Um, I talked him into coming out here and, and helping me build a home. So it was a big, big project, but really, he, I have to say he did at least 80, 85% of the heavy lifting. Like, yeah, I mean, he was, he was amazing. He's, he passed away in 2008. Um, but he was just a super smart guy and really good at building homes and being efficient, not wasting materials. Um, you know, I was a, I was working for Moots at the time. Didn't have a huge salary or anything. It's not like I was a rich guy. We were really trying to build it as inexpensively as possible. [00:04:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Well, and I think, um, granted, sounds like your father was far more expert than mine, but we share that. Um, my, my father passed in oh seven and I didn't get to build a home with him, but I did get to work on, um, a couple of properties that, um, uh, he had, uh, my parents had purchased with, um, a aunt and uncle. And these properties were always underwater and always, you know, falling apart. And they'd never had the budget to do, you know, to hire out. And so it's just like, all right, we need to figure this out. And that's how I learned. You know, one of the key ways that I learned how to use tools, how to do things for myself, and there's a certain, um, there's a certain sense of, um, one personal responsibility and also with that personal, um, uh, competence and confidence that goes with learning from a young age to do things like, you don't need to hire an expert. You can consult experts. Maybe sometimes you do, but you can learn this. So that's, uh, that would seem to have carried into, uh, a lot of things in, in, uh, in what you've done starting at age 20 welding frames [00:05:21]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And prior to that I was, you know, I was always on my dad's job sites, um, mostly cleaning up, you know? Um, [00:05:31]Randall Jacobs (host): as, as one does, and at when you're a grunt. [00:05:34]Brad Bingham: yep, yep. But, but yeah, you do learn a lot and yeah. Good stuff. Mm-hmm. [00:05:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, so tell me, so you mentioned you, you take this course, right? You're, you're in high school or just outta high school, and you go to work for Moots right after. How'd that come about? [00:05:51]Brad Bingham: No, I was, uh, I had the opportunity in high school to be part of a cooperative work experience, uh, with the world's largest dental equipment manufacturer. So I worked, I worked in their engineering department, um, really as a drafts person, uh, um, junior, senior year in high school. And then that carried over into, after high school. Um, I was not a, you know, there was a lot of, a lot of life things that, that kind of slowed me down from going to college. Um, my mom was recovering from some pretty harsh cancer and I wasn't really excited to, to leave her. My parents were recently divorced, like, you know, all these things kind of piled up to me staying, staying in my hometown for a year after high school. And I continued to work, uh, in that engineering department. Kind of the, the, uh, path would've been to go into mechanical engineering from there. But I, I kind of looked around and I was like, I don't think this is, for me, I just, you know, I don't wanna just be kind of a cog and cog in the wheel, you know, cog in the machine. Um, I wanted to have a, you know, more greater grasp, more of the whole scope of projects. Um, and that's, you know, bike, bike building allows you to do that. [00:07:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, for, for better or for worse, in a lot of regards, especially in the beginning when you're trying to get off the ground, [00:07:24]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. [00:07:25]Randall Jacobs (host): it's the product, it's the business, it's the marketing. And which is really just another way of saying how do you communicate, how do you build awareness? How do you connect with people? Um, So, so then, you know, walk us through kind of what, what that journey looks like. [00:07:40]Brad Bingham: So, you know, it's, it's funny, I, uh, I, like I said, you know, A gentleman that I worked with, uh, who was a really good friend, uh, at the dental, Manu dental equipment manufacturer. Um, he ended up becoming, you know, years later he was director of engineering. Uh, this is a big major company, like 1200 employees on site, um, major manufacturing capabilities right there in my hometown, which is just outside of Portland, Oregon. [00:08:12]Randall Jacobs (host): and what, um, what types of products [00:08:15]Brad Bingham: oh, uh, [00:08:16]Randall Jacobs (host): ha have I had your products in my mouth at some point? [00:08:19]Brad Bingham: uh, maybe not in your, maybe not literally in your mouth, but, but potentially actually, yeah, you probably have like the, uh, you know, the little suction wand that, uh, goes in your mouth while you're at the dentist. Yeah. I mean, they [00:08:32]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:08:33]Brad Bingham: they even produced that. So the company was a. [00:08:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:08:37]Brad Bingham: You walk into, you walk, walk into certain dental offices, and you'll see that every single piece in that office, it's me, sorry, is uh, every single piece has adec on it. Literally from the chair that you're sitting on to the cabinets, literally everything. [00:09:00]Randall Jacobs (host): So what I'm hearing is here you are, this, this young kid in, in, in high school, just outta high school. You get this, this opportunity to work in a very large, uh, organization in with, you know, seasoned professionals doing, you know, medical products at a whole nother layer, um, of complexity in terms of design and development and supply chain and things like that. And so you're dealing with that sort of thing. Um, and that was kind of your jumping off point. [00:09:30]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. And I, um, I got into the bike building thing because my buddy that I, I rode with, I broke a couple of cannondale and he said, why don't you just make, why don't you just make your own? [00:09:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:09:44]Brad Bingham: so of course I did. And it kind of spiraled, you know, I was in his garage late every single night machining something. And, uh, you know, kind of once I built that first bike, it was a really great experience, but I was kind of like, well, what's, what's next in this? And then he said, why don't make one outta titanium? And, uh, so I went and took the United Bicycle Institute Titanium Frame Building course in 1996. Um, and it was taught by Gary Helfrich, uh, who is one of the, one of the founders of Merlin. [00:10:21]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:22]Brad Bingham: So, uh, yeah, through that process, moots got ahold of my name and. I got asked to come out to Colorado to interview for a welding position, and you know, as soon as they offered it to me, I took it. And kind of the, you know, the rest is, is history. And, you know, I did feel like that was a wonderful opportunity I got out here and I kind of initially thought to myself like, okay, I'll, I'll do a year out here, figure it out, and then I'll get back to Oregon and I'll start my own brand. [00:10:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:10:59]Brad Bingham: But I got out to Colorado and it's like, wow, I'm, I'm not gonna go home and build better bikes than this. And, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna go step, step away and just immediately be building better bikes. That's not gonna happen. Um, and I fell in love with, with Colorado and the, the stoke that people have here. [00:11:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:11:24]Brad Bingham: So, [00:11:25]Randall Jacobs (host): And what, what is it about, you know, what was it about working at Moots that was particularly special for you, and like, who were some of your mentors? You know, what, what'd you learn there? [00:11:35]Brad Bingham: Well, it, it was a opportunity to work from the, the very bottom, you know, the very bottom to the very top kind of. And so I was able to experience, you know, every, every part of manufacturing while I was there, every, every part of manufacturing, a bicycle frame from titanium. Uh, so I started out welding, but pretty, I did that pretty solid for, uh, five years, five, six years, you know, tons and tons of welding. But while at that time, Kent Erickson was still, um, employed by Moots, and so even in those first few years I was helping, you know, Kent never used a computer. I brought some CAD skills with me, and so pretty quickly I was involved in design work and any little part he wanted to get machined, you know, we needed to do a drawing and I was a drafts person so I could create an engineering, you know, a print, uh, that somebody could read and manufacture it really easily. So, um, with a, with a lot of those skills that I brought, I was able to evolve at moots. You know, I, I look back on it and I think, oh, it, you know, happened pretty quick, but, but really it took a, took a number of years and by 2004, um, I was the production manager at Moots and managing, you know, the flow of the flow of products through the, through the factory. And, um, at the time it was about, I think it was about 14 or 16 guys and gals that were making the bikes. So, um, You know, and then designing all the bikes after Kent left. Um, and I was, uh, designing tooling and, you know, as new specifications came out, we would incorporate those into the bikes and yeah, just making it all happen. And then, uh, yeah, I finally, finally got tired of the, the high volume, you know, it just got, it got really, really big and I was, no, I was then just, like I said, kind of a cog in the machine. And, um, and then not long after my dad passed away, I kind of felt like it was time to make a change. [00:14:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, that'll, that'll definitely catalyze some, some serious self-reflection for sure. Um, uh, I think in my case as well, when my, when my dad got sick, um, you know, he, he had a, in my dad's case, it was a, a brain tumor. So as a type that you usually don't, uh, get more than like 6, 8, 10 months from, um, and from then it was like, okay, I moved back, moved back home, um, and resolve like, okay, what are the things that I would like to have done if I were on my deathbed and that I would like to do and share with my father while he's still around and like, you know, shifted my whole life trajectory. [00:14:51]Brad Bingham: Sure. [00:14:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:14:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:14:53]Randall Jacobs (host): So, [00:14:54]Brad Bingham: I, yeah, I hope, did you get the, did you get the six or eight, 10 months with 'em? [00:14:59]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, yeah, he, he lasted about eight months or so. He passed, uh, about 10, 10 days before his 50th and my 25th birthdays. We shared the same birthday. And, um, it was, I wanted to, I wanted to land a big account in the company I was working with. I wanted to, um, get into a good grad school, and I wanted to get my pro upgrade as a racer. And I got two, two of the three before he passed. And then, uh, I had a, a good season, uh, later on, uh, the, the, the following year and, uh, was a, a Pac fodder pro for a hot minute. [00:15:39]Brad Bingham: Gotcha. [00:15:40]Randall Jacobs (host): again, like that, that reckoning of seeing, seeing a, you know, a parental figure and someone that I admired and learned a lot from, you know, I. Towards the end of life, it maybe reflect a lot on, on what I wanna do with my own. [00:15:52]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:15:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:15:54]Brad Bingham: Yeah. 50 is, 50 is way too young. [00:15:58]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:15:59]Brad Bingham: Way too young. I, my dad was 63 when he passed away, [00:16:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:16:03]Brad Bingham: felt way too young. [00:16:06]Randall Jacobs (host): I think it is never a good age to lose a parent. Like it, it just brings with it different challenges. Like when, when you're a child, it, it's like you, you need that parental figure to help guide you through life when you're going through your, your twenties or so, you try to discover yourself and that guidance can be helpful if you're in your forties or fifties. I haven't had that experience though. I will. Uh, my mother's still around and still healthy, but, you know, then it's like you're confronting your own mortality. Uh, so part, part of the cycle of life. [00:16:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. [00:16:40]Randall Jacobs (host): So, so your dad, your dad passes, you decide it's time. So what'd that process look like? [00:16:48]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So, um, I chose to, yeah, I chose to leave the job I'd been in for 15 years and, um, you know, they were, moots was a, they were a little surprised by it because I had been there for so long and, um, you know, at the time I was, I was playing a pretty integral. Um, so I, I went to part-time for, you know, I gave them a healthy notice and went to part-time and then, you know, finally trailed off. Um, and that was spring-ish of 2012, and I had no, I had no plans. I had bought a airstream, uh, to renovate, so I did a, like a shell off restoration on a 1973 Airstream and, [00:17:44]Randall Jacobs (host): off renovation. So like you pulled the shell off the chassis. Sandblasted the chassis. [00:17:51]Brad Bingham: exactly. [00:17:52]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. This, this, we need, we need to do a tangent on this 'cause I, I also did a, um, uh, a camper build at one point. So tell me about this Airstream. I'm super curious. [00:18:00]Brad Bingham: what, what was the camper you did? [00:18:03]Randall Jacobs (host): Um, mine, mine, I built out of a 15 foot vno motorcycle trailer. 'cause I had a, I had a Honda Element, which is a four cylinder, um, boxy, little, little adventure mobile that I wanted to, you know, use as a, you know, I wanted to be able to tow around the country. So I built this ultra light, um, largely self-sustaining kind of off-grid trailer, you know, solar thin film, solar on the roof and water recycling for the toilet and all the other stuff. And yeah, it was, it was an experience. [00:18:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, mine was, uh, it was my brother-in-law's folks up in Montana. I was up in Montana in 2011 for, uh, like a, a US Cup mountain bike race, [00:18:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:18:52]Brad Bingham: in, up in Missoula and, [00:18:54]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what year is this? [00:18:56]Brad Bingham: 2011. [00:18:57]Randall Jacobs (host): 2011. Okay. So this is towards the tail end. I, I did the, the, um, when it was the Kenda Cup. I don't know if they were still sponsoring. It's like Show Air was a shipping logistics company that was sponsoring, this is like oh 8, 0 9, maybe 2010. So I think maybe the tail end. [00:19:14]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that sounds right. I don't even know if Kenda and Sho were still involved. Like, I, I raced like the, um, like 2010 I think I was doing like the, like Sand Dimas and Fontana. [00:19:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. I did those races. [00:19:30]Brad Bingham: Yep. Did you do [00:19:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So, so, so you were a, uh, you were a private tier pro as well, or are we on a team or, [00:19:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah, I was, you know, it was moots. [00:19:39]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:19:39]Brad Bingham: I was riding to Moots and just having, just having fun with it. [00:19:44]Randall Jacobs (host): What, what years did you race? I wonder if we actually lined up next to each other [00:19:48]Brad Bingham: well I raced, I raced pretty hard like nine, 10. [00:19:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, same you do. Sea otter. [00:19:59]Brad Bingham: Uh, oh gosh. I don't think I did sea otter until like 2016. [00:20:06]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:20:07]Brad Bingham: My, um, yeah, my, my pro mountain bike racing, it got, got sidetracked by two hip surgeries. [00:20:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Oof. [00:20:20]Brad Bingham: So I'm trying to remember how hard I went in 2011. I feel like. Oh, yeah, yeah, [00:20:28]Randall Jacobs (host): I had, I had already retired by that [00:20:30]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah, [00:20:30]Randall Jacobs (host): I was like, okay, I've got way too much student loan debt to be living outta my car, you know, spending money to be a professional athlete. [00:20:40]Brad Bingham: yeah. So I had, um, my, my major injury, um, I tore the labrum, tore the labrum in my hip, um, which turns out was a, it was a genetic issue. Um, [00:20:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Interesting. It's just weak in some way, or there's some sort of, [00:20:59]Brad Bingham: of, shape of the femur. [00:21:01]Randall Jacobs (host): okay. My sister did the same thing and she had had to have her shaved. Did you have the, the shaving surgery or did you tear it right through? [00:21:08]Brad Bingham: The shaving. Yep. Same. Yep. So [00:21:14]Randall Jacobs (host): same thing on the other side. [00:21:15]Brad Bingham: correct both sides. Yep. I identical. So that ended up, um, the pain was pretty bad and kind of set me back in 2012. Um, and I prepped myself for surgery at the Steadman Clinic down in Vail, um, and had surgery in on the right leg or the right hip, uh, like February of 2013. And then I had my left one done July of 2013. So 2013 was kind of a throwaway year and, you know, I don't mean that entirely. It was, it was a great year. But, um, [00:21:58]Randall Jacobs (host): In in terms of competing at the highest level in athletics of any sort. Yeah. That, that makes sense. [00:22:06]Brad Bingham: But then I came back, I came back really hard 2014 and like just once I had the go ahead and I was, I had a wonderful physical therapist and I was just getting after it hard. And so at that time also I was working for Kent Erickson and he was like, you know, all about it. Like, yeah, go, go do it. Go go get it while you can, kind of. And uh, [00:22:33]Randall Jacobs (host): not something you do in your forties unless you're, uh, or fifties. Unless you're what? Tinker or, um, uh, Ned. Ned [00:22:42]Brad Bingham: I went like, so 2014 I kind of got myself back in, back in race shape and did things like Breck Epic, um, if you're familiar with that. [00:22:54]Randall Jacobs (host): I am, I got some friends who are doing it this year. I hear it's phenomenal. [00:22:57]Brad Bingham: And uh, yeah, did about a bunch of mountain biking and then I kept ramping it up until about, uh, 2017. So, yeah, it went pretty hard. 'cause my wife was, was racing cross country as well. And so it was something we did together, you know, and I would throw in road races and then, and, and whatever. [00:23:20]Randall Jacobs (host): I was gonna say that that makes a lot of sense that, uh, it was something you shared because otherwise, I mean, you're, you're on the road all the time and it's really hard to be on the road with like, as a, as a partner, be on the road with your partner who's out racing all the time and, you know, [00:23:39]Brad Bingham: yeah, [00:23:40]Randall Jacobs (host): camping at different places or, you know, subletting or, or doing whatever it takes, you know, sleeping on sofas, wherever. [00:23:47]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah. And, uh, like, so 2016, I turned 40 in the fall, so my goal was to do 40 races before I turned 40 that year. [00:24:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Geez, [00:24:03]Brad Bingham: So [00:24:03]Randall Jacobs (host): that's, uh, that's impressive. I just turned 40 and I, I don't have a, I don't think I have a single race in me right now. [00:24:10]Brad Bingham: Yeah, that's alright. That's alright. [00:24:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:24:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. Anyways. Um, but all the way back to the Airstream. Yeah. [00:24:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:24:21]Brad Bingham: Fun project, you know, kind of kept me occupied. Um, as I le after I had left Moots. It, uh, definitely kept me occupied for a good few months [00:24:33]Randall Jacobs (host): And did you tow that around, um, with your wife, train, you know, training and racing everywhere, or, or were we, you just living in it? [00:24:40]Brad Bingham: it was a project. Like it took a, took a long time to get it even to where it is today, which is, I'd call it, I'd call it 90% done. I mean, it's, it's one of those things [00:24:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay, good. Good enough where your motivation is, uh, less than. [00:24:58]Brad Bingham: Yes, it's [00:24:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:00]Brad Bingham: Yes. And, but I. [00:25:03]Randall Jacobs (host): I think, I think that's part of the danger, the dangerous spot that I'm in. 'cause I, I also am like comfortable enough and I got other priorities, but gotta keep things moving along. [00:25:12]Brad Bingham: yeah. [00:25:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:25:15]Brad Bingham: So, yeah. But, uh, anyway, I didn't have any, I didn't have any plans to start, you know, to, I had no plans to be building bikes after I left Moots. I just wasn't, I just was like, I'm okay with taking some time and figuring out whatever the heck happens. And, uh, and then Ken Erickson, who had left Moots, uh, in 2005, he, he had been doing his thing for a while and he reached out and said, Hey, how about, how about you come back to me? And, uh, with the intention that you take over the business? So, [00:25:53]Randall Jacobs (host): All right. [00:25:55]Brad Bingham: so [00:25:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Wait, so this is, this is his independent business? [00:25:59]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yeah, he started Kent Erickson cycles about a year, a about a year, year and a half after he left Moots, so 2006. So, um, he'd been going for about yeah. Six, seven years. [00:26:16]Randall Jacobs (host): And is he a few years your senior? [00:26:19]Brad Bingham: Uh, yeah. [00:26:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So, so he is, he's been at it, he's been at a long time. [00:26:26]Brad Bingham: Oh, [00:26:26]Randall Jacobs (host): And when did the, how long did you work together before he started to kind of transition outta the business? [00:26:33]Brad Bingham: Uh, so from, it would've been late, late 2012, um, until the late 2016. So four years that, uh, till we bought the business. And then, and then he was on board working for about 18 months afterwards. [00:26:53]Randall Jacobs (host): wow. [00:26:54]Brad Bingham: five and a half years. Yeah. [00:26:55]Randall Jacobs (host): That's really cool. That's like quite, quite narc to have worked together in a different business. Have him leave and then have you kind of take on his thing and have him supporting you in that role. Uh, that sounds really beautiful. [00:27:07]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. He and I, we have a, like, we have a good relationship. I don't spend very much time with him because he does tend to kind of hermit himself up on, on his property and he just, you know, he's, he has a beautiful piece of property up in the mountains and it's like, you know, his slice of heaven, like he doesn't need to go anywhere. Um, but to see him some pretty much gotta go up there. [00:27:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:35]Brad Bingham: um, but yeah, but our working relationship is super good. Like really loved. The time we worked together is very much a lot of back and forth and a lot of mutual respect. And, um, neither of us really got upset with like, criticisms, you know? I mean, we were just really open. So it was nice. [00:28:00]Randall Jacobs (host): And you, you said, um, we bought the business and I, I know that I, I spoke together with my colleague, Sam, with your wife, um, initially before chatting with you. So, uh, you know, share a bit about, about her and, and how the two of you work together and so on. [00:28:17]Brad Bingham: sure. And actually, I mean, I, I, I kind of misspoke because technically it's only myself that owns the business, [00:28:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:28:26]Brad Bingham: but we were together are together, um, in everything that we do there. So, um, it feels like, you know, it feels like we bought it. [00:28:38]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:28:39]Brad Bingham: but yeah, so, um, so yeah, Hannah and I have been, uh, been together since 2010, like late 2010. And, um, you know, just a, just a fun like athletic. You know, athletic based relationship because we, you know, she was a runner at the time we met, and I was kind of ki I was kind of like still enjoying some running, like I did my first mar marathon with her and, um, my first and only wait, I should, I should had that, um, [00:29:17]Randall Jacobs (host): that's more, that's more than many cyclists. Many cyclists will do. Most cyclists, I don't even know. Uh, a lot of cyclists I know will joke that they don't know how to run. So doing a single marathon is, is not bad. [00:29:30]Brad Bingham: So, so yeah, we had never, we had actually, you know, we'd never worked together. But with this idea of me taking over the business, um, I really wanted somebody there that I, that I could trust to run the books. I knew that that would take such a burden off of me. [00:29:51]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:29:52]Brad Bingham: um, so we, we agreed that, um, that that's how we would do it, and it's worked out really well. Um, and yeah, yeah, she, she has a, she had been working in some other outdoor, um, some other outdoor companies that are located in Steamboat Springs. Um, she'd been doing bookkeeping and accounting for those companies, so she was, well, well versed and ready to take it on. Um, and [00:30:23]Randall Jacobs (host): And, uh, [00:30:24]Brad Bingham: mm-hmm. [00:30:25]Randall Jacobs (host): oh, go ahead. [00:30:26]Brad Bingham: Oh, and she also, like, she, you know, makes the website happen, makes the web store happen, keeps all the backend stuff going. So [00:30:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:30:36]Brad Bingham: you know, it's a, it's a huge component to the business. Um, I'm sure [00:30:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. [00:30:41]Brad Bingham: as you know, um, it really allows me to draw some, to draw some lines of things that I work on and things that I don't work on. [00:30:51]Randall Jacobs (host): I mean, it's, it's exhausting Otherwise, uh, you know, especially like early days when, when, if it's, if it's just one person or just two people and everyone's doing everything, uh, I mean, I, it works for some people, but it definitely constrained scale. And it also means that there's a lot of context switching from, you know, now I wanna focus on products, but you know, now I have to do a whole bunch of customer service emails and then, you know, I need to do some, some marketing outreach and, oh, you know, uh, have we paid that bill yet? [00:31:24]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep. [00:31:25]Randall Jacobs (host): Uh, [00:31:26]Brad Bingham: But, but, but we're tiny, you know, we're a tiny little operation, so [00:31:31]Randall Jacobs (host): it, it's the two of you. [00:31:33]Brad Bingham: it's the two of us and one employee. [00:31:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:31:37]Brad Bingham: Yep. [00:31:37]Randall Jacobs (host): And, and what is your, uh, what's your other team member doing? [00:31:41]Brad Bingham: So Ed, ed is our, our third man, and, uh, he's like, does all of the final, final assemblies. So, uh, you know, complete, complete build outs. Um, he is, uh, he's a veteran of the bike world. Uh, he used to own one of the bike shops here in downtown Steamboat. Uh, he's a certified motorcycle mechanic. Uh, um, so he's just, he's just awesome, super, super diverse. So he builds, he builds all of my wheels, like I said, does the final assemblies. He kind of manages the, the web orders and ships product based on those incoming web orders. Um, and then, and then he's also in production. So he's, uh, does all the finish work on the frames. Uh, that's like bead blasting and polishing, you know, brushing what everything that kind of takes place after I weld it, [00:32:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:32:47]Brad Bingham: you will. Um, and then [00:32:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you're doing the tube selection, mitering and all the upstream up there, is that right? [00:32:55]Brad Bingham: correct. Yeah. [00:32:56]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:32:57]Brad Bingham: Yep. And then he has, oh yeah, yeah, exactly. So he has some, uh, you know, some machining, some other machining roles as well. But those are like, it's, it's really funny just how they fall into the production process. 'cause like he, like I, it's like we always need something. There's always something to be done, [00:33:24]Randall Jacobs (host): So what's the, what's the process like? Like say, you know, one of our listeners, um, was looking to get a custom bike, uh, built with you. How does that, how does the communication work? How's, what's the, the process you take them through? [00:33:37]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So typically they reach out, excuse me. Typically they reach out through the, the website and then the conversation starts. Um, we have a pretty basic. Kind of intake form, if you will, uh, fit form. And we start with that. Uh, that does have a lot of, uh, a lot of measurements that they can provide, uh, if I were to be creating the fit based on those measurements. But what I am seeing more and more is that clients are coming with a fit, you know, most often a retool fit, [00:34:14]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. Same. [00:34:15]Brad Bingham: totally dialed. Yep. And so then the, depending on our workload, uh, you know, sometimes we have to delay, um, the conversation because I've just got too many clients currently that I'm working with, [00:34:33]Randall Jacobs (host): It's a good, good problem to have. [00:34:35]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. Generally it's a good problem. Yeah. So, um, but we start the conversation, you know, again, every, every client is a little bit different. Nothing. No scenario is exactly the same, but, um, most often we create a, create an estimate for the build out that they're looking for. Um, you know, if, if it's a complete build, of course they wanna see what that's gonna look like. Um, so we provide, we provide estimates, uh, with no, um, you know, with no deposit, no, no obligation to purchase. Um, we want them to see, you know, where, how they're spending their money. Um, once they're satisfied that like the pro that things look good, um, then we take a deposit and then we really dive into the design work. Um, try to avoid putting in a lot of front end design work with no, um, you know, with no obligation. I. [00:35:41]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. And I mean, you can get, you can go pretty far in kind of teasing out high level, a high level understanding of what the rider needs. And also I. They can get a real sense of whether, you know, whether it's going to be the right match for them, you know, with those initial conversations. So that totally makes sense. And then when you are, when you are looking at like, okay, so what are the different, walk us through like the different parameters of frame design for a particular rider. What, what are the, the different levers that you can pull? And then what information are you teasing out from the rider, either through that fit info or those conversations to, to determine, you know, how that bike gets created? [00:36:20]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So I mean, you wanna, you wanna get kind of deep [00:36:24]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. Let's go, let's go. Full nerd. Uh, so I, I think I shared with you previously, like I had, you know, did a two episode, uh, conversation with Craig Calie that was got into boron infused resin and like, you know, I think Josh Porter and I were talking about. The creation of CAD tools for modeling a spinning wheel. Uh, so we, we can go as, we can go as nerdy as we like. So yeah, give give us, give us the full nerd version. [00:36:52]Brad Bingham: Well, since we're on the gravel ride, um, you know, let's talk or let's talk a little bit around a gravel bike. Um, but when there's, you know, so for example, a lot of my clients do tend to be like, you know, their, their experience riders of a certain age, let's say. So a lot of those fits, you know, they, they are changing. Um, so, you know, you really want to look at all of the parameters and, you know, weight bias, rear wheel, front wheel is a biggie. Uh, so you kinda identify that pretty, pretty quickly. You know, you can adjust that of course, by front center and stem length. I. Um, to achieve a weight bias that you're, that you're happy with. But, you know, generally speaking, um, you want to, um, with those more upright positions, you know, you want to have increased trail, you want to have a longer front center. Um, you want, you know, if you're, because if you're gonna, if you're gonna have a short stem, you want higher trail. [00:38:10]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, because you're effectively without all else equal on the trail side, you're speeding up the, the ratio of, of, uh, you know, less input for the same amount of output when you go with a shorter stem. Less stability. Yeah. [00:38:26]Brad Bingham: Yeah. And, and then depending on, you know, what, what you've done with the, like chainstay length and the rear wheel weight bias, you know, that. Quickly lightens the front end. Um, so you got, you need to be, yeah, you need to be careful there. Um, so yeah, and it's like every rider is different. If you're more aggressive and, you know, racy on the gravel bike, then yeah, you might be looking for a, um, you know, for a longer stem, more weight on the front contact, front contact patch, um, [00:39:08]Randall Jacobs (host): Potentially less, less frontal area in a, in a more kind of, you know, locomotive type position for long flats and things like that as well. [00:39:18]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. [00:39:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:39:20]Brad Bingham: Absolutely. Um, you know, a lot of those things, a lot of those changes do end up being perception and not, not all that much reality. The, the frontal area. Yeah, it's huge, [00:39:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:39:38]Brad Bingham: But wheel base doesn't, you know, if a shorter wheel base is gonna be perceived as quick, oh, this is fast, right? But no, it's not, you're not going any faster because [00:39:55]Randall Jacobs (host): Sure. Yeah. It's the, the sensation of speed and, and responsiveness, which, you know, another, the flip side of the same coin is twitchiness, right? Whether it's responsive or twitchy is depends on who you are and whether you've crossed the line from one to the other. [00:40:11]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. So, but in the custom world, you know, in the custom world it's nice 'cause you have all of the levers to pull. You can do, you can do anything with it, which is, which is wonderful. Um, because I do see a lot of pretty odd or out of the norm cockpits and, and you really want to give them an experience. You wanna create a bike underneath them that just feels right. Like, wow, this, this is comfortable. I mean, it's, you know, a longer wheel base on a gravel bike is really much more comfortable, uh, for the long haul. If you, you know, especially if you're an older rider, um, those, you know, the frequency of, of bumps, you know, washboards, you can, you can change that drastically, uh, with a slightly longer wheel base. [00:41:05]Randall Jacobs (host): Tell me more about that. How does that actually work? [00:41:07]Brad Bingham: Well, because you have the slacker head angle, which [00:41:11]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:41:12]Brad Bingham: inherently allows the fork to flex a little more. [00:41:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. [00:41:18]Brad Bingham: Right? And then, and then the, the longer wheel base, you know, um, just geometrically it, it doesn't have to, the, the angle of change. Is lessened [00:41:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay, [00:41:34]Brad Bingham: as you go over, as you go over a rise or through a pothole, that that angle of change is, is lessened on a longer wheel base. [00:41:43]Randall Jacobs (host): It hadn't occurred to me that, so you're saying like a degree of head tube angle change, all else equal, same fork, same tubes, and everything else will actually [00:41:53]Brad Bingham: you'll feel that. Yeah. You'll feel that flex. Uh, that definitely. [00:42:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Got it. 'cause I, I was thinking of it purely in terms of its effect on trail or like the caster effect to, to simplify it for those who don't know trail and um, uh, and you know, potentially the introduction of tire flop, which usually is in an issue on, you know, gravel bikes. 'cause the head tubes aren't slack enough. Yeah. Huh? [00:42:22]Brad Bingham: yeah, there, there's that. There's also, you know, again, back to like slightly longer wheel base. Shorter stem. Shorter. I think there is some, some also, um, comfort gained by, um, how much weight is on the hands, what you feel through the, what you feel through the front. But that's really driven by the overall cockpit and the, the fit parameters, you know, [00:42:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:42:50]Brad Bingham: so, but [00:42:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Basically where that, those three points in space where the, uh, the angle of the hypotenuse between them. [00:42:58]Brad Bingham: Yep. Yep. [00:43:00]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:43:00]Brad Bingham: So, so, yeah. You know, they, it's pretty quick, uh, pretty quick to tell the difference in how, how smooth bikes are, um, with those pretty, pretty small dimensional changes. Um, but it's even, it's been difficult for me even in design where I go, oh wow. I don't, wow. I don't wanna change the front center by, by that much. Like, oh, that's, That's 20 millimeters and then you have to remember, wait, it's 20 millimeters. It's nothing like, [00:43:35]Randall Jacobs (host): Well, as a, as a percentage, if you're dealing with a bike that has a wheel base, use a round number of like a thousand, usually a large gravel bike could be a bit longer than that. [00:43:44]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:43:44]Randall Jacobs (host): You know, 20 millimeters, so 2%. [00:43:48]Brad Bingham: Right. [00:43:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:43:50]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. But it's [00:43:52]Randall Jacobs (host): Though, in terms of, in terms of mass distribution over the two axles, it's gonna be bigger than that because it's relative to its distance to the the bottom bracket. So the rear end is staying unless you change the rear end with it as well. [00:44:04]Brad Bingham: sure, sure. And I, I think, I think oftentimes it is smart to adjust that rear center in a accordingly, um, because otherwise you will end up with, um, too much rear weight bias, you know, [00:44:19]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:44:20]Brad Bingham: so. [00:44:20]Randall Jacobs (host): Which, which can be, which can be fun if you like wheelies and for a certain type of riding, [00:44:25]Brad Bingham: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, the bike, I'm like, the bike I'm riding right now is, uh, I think it's about a four, I think it's like a 4 27, uh, chain state. That's center to center. Not effect, not uh, horizontal, but [00:44:44]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [00:44:45]Brad Bingham: center to center. It's like a, like a 4 [00:44:48]Randall Jacobs (host): So horizontal, it's gonna be, you know, for 23 it's a pretty tight, [00:44:53]Brad Bingham: Yeah, it's pretty. [00:44:53]Randall Jacobs (host): uh, actually, no, not that much, but yeah, 4 24 or something like that. [00:44:57]Brad Bingham: Yeah, actually I think it is less, um, because the drop is probably, I think the drop on my rig is like at least 73, 75 maybe I forget now. Um, but that's a pretty tight, tight rear. And then the front is like a, I think the, my current ride is like a 71.7 head angle with a 47 fork, you know, [00:45:20]Randall Jacobs (host): How tall are you? [00:45:21]Brad Bingham: uh, probably five, 10, maybe a sh [00:45:25]Randall Jacobs (host): 10. [00:45:26]Brad Bingham: yeah. [00:45:26]Randall Jacobs (host): Okay. So on a larger, medium, smaller, large, sort of, if you were to fall into a, a conventional bike? [00:45:34]Brad Bingham: Yeah, [00:45:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:45:37]Brad Bingham: And uh, [00:45:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Just, just for context. 'cause then, 'cause then, you know, understanding like a, you know, an extra large rider is gonna be riding, uh, even if you scale that bike up, well you, you can't really, because the wheels don't scale. [00:45:49]Brad Bingham: right, [00:45:49]Randall Jacobs (host): so you have to adjust those, those angles and those lengths and stuff like that. Not just proportional, but also to account for the fact that the wheels are staying, uh, which, which I always thought was an interesting opportunity. Uh, you do see some brands that, um, uh, will, you know, restrict to like a six 50 B on their smallest sizes, for example. Uh, [00:46:09]Brad Bingham: You do see that a lot. Yeah. [00:46:12]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. I, I, I think we should bring back 26 for those really small riders who wanna run two point fours, but I guess there's not enough of a market or a marketing, uh, uh, you know, edge to be gained from it, so. [00:46:25]Brad Bingham: Yeah. I, I, I find that, uh, my more like, my more experienced clients that are, that are very small, they're, they're really looking for 700. [00:46:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:46:38]Brad Bingham: they're, they, they [00:46:39]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, it's interesting. Same. And how much of that is, what do you think are the drivers of that? Is that, do you think it's actually better for the vast majority of those riders, or, [00:46:52]Brad Bingham: I think that the, the, again, kind of back to that going, you know, actually going fast comfortably, like comfortably going fast, you're going to do that better on a 700 than on a six [00:47:07]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, just rolling resistance attack angle, things like [00:47:11]Brad Bingham: Yes. Yes, exactly. [00:47:13]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So, [00:47:15]Brad Bingham: and we. [00:47:16]Randall Jacobs (host): so worth the com worth the compromises on, maybe responsiveness or, or what have you. 'cause you're definitely giving up something there, even if you do proportional cranks. [00:47:24]Brad Bingham: for sure. Yeah. But I, I think like there's, you know, you know how it is, there's a, the, the sharp end of a peloton they want, or, or the entire Peloton, they want responsiveness. [00:47:37]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:38]Brad Bingham: but you know, for [00:47:40]Randall Jacobs (host): how do you do it on those really small frames? Like, you know, you have a, a five foot ri, five foot tall rider come in and they want to do gravel racing. Four foot 10. Yeah. Four foot 10. I mean, there's, it's unfortunate, um, there's almost nothing out there off the shelf for a rider who's four foot 10 and they end up on these bikes with no standover and a 40 mil stem, and they're still not fit properly. [00:48:03]Brad Bingham: yeah. So I, I take advantage of, so seven cycles, [00:48:09]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [00:48:09]Brad Bingham: been producing, producing a fork called the the matador. [00:48:14]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. [00:48:14]Brad Bingham: for quite a while. It has a 55 millimeter offset. [00:48:18]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:48:19]Brad Bingham: So you can get, you can get pretty slack with the front end and still keep it, um, you know, on the low, low lowish side of trail. Um, [00:48:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. And for, for those who don't know, um, when you increase the offset, you decrease the trail all l sql. And when you de, when you increase the head angle, you um, decrease the trail as well. You essentially less trail, less castor effect all else equal, more, more responsive or more twitchy, depending on whether you've crossed over into, you know, if you went too far, it wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to handle the bike over much. [00:48:58]Brad Bingham: Right. [00:48:59]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:49:00]Brad Bingham: Yeah. So those, you know, and tow overlap is a real, is a real thing. And when you start talking about a bike that's gonna clear a 45 millimeter tire, um, so. [00:49:12]Randall Jacobs (host): a four 10 rider. Yeah. That's, that's hard to pull out. Are you doing, really, are you finding proportional cranks too? Are you running one fifties or one 40 fives or, or this sort of thing? [00:49:22]Brad Bingham: Yeah. I think to date, one 50 is the smallest I've gone. [00:49:27]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:49:28]Brad Bingham: so, um, but those bikes, you know, they're, yeah, they're not, they're not racing at a high level, you know, they're, they're out enjoying gravel rides. [00:49:43]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah, [00:49:44]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:49:45]Randall Jacobs (host): yeah. Those, I'll just comment, just, uh, anecdotally the conversations I've had, particularly with some of our smallest riders is proportional crack lengths makes such a big difference. And like people are, people are just used to riding the same cranks that you and I. You know, ride their whole lives and they never knew anything different or like their bike. You know, I've, I've had riders that are five foot tall and their bikes came with one 70 fives. You know, they had a, they had a hybrid or something like that, or, or they're coming off of something, or like an older road bike and I put 'em on one 50 fives and it's just like, I can spin, [00:50:20]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:50:21]Randall Jacobs (host): spin it. High cadences. My, my pedal stroke doesn't fall apart when I'm tired. [00:50:25]Brad Bingham: Well also, you know, you look at bike, bike frame design and bike frame design has been dictated by what is a common crank arm length, you know, one 70 to 1 [00:50:34]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Exactly. Together, together with, uh, uh, you know, the outer attire radius, which is in turn driven by the, the rim dimensions. So like six 50 B or, or 26 versus 700 and so on, uh, puts different constraints. And then you have BB drop. If you have smaller wheels, you can't have as much BB drop, which means you're kind of more on top of the bike. And so you have all these different factors that impact each other that you're balancing. [00:51:03]Brad Bingham: yeah. And I'm, I'd say overall, my, my design philosophy is you have, uh, the, kind of the lowest. Possible center of gravity. Um, so maintaining, uh, you know, a low, low bottom bracket, um, whatever is acceptable for like, you know, wheel base crank, arm length, intended pedal, all those things. [00:51:28]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, essentially is, is, I mean, there's really not much reason not to go as low as you can go without risking pedal strikes [00:51:36]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:51:37]Randall Jacobs (host): more or less any application. And it's just a matter of what the application demands. Like a road bike that's doing crit racing, it's gonna need to hire bb 'cause you wanna be able to pedal out of the corner as soon as possible. Um, dual suspension, mountain bike, you know, same deal. But it's, it's, uh, you need to hire BB because you have all that squish. [00:51:56]Brad Bingham: yeah, yeah. Cycl, lacrosse, bikes, you know, side hill, side hilling, and [00:52:01]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. So it's interesting, you know, as gravel has, has taken over, um, cross and road. Arguably you ha like a lot of people who previously might have had a road bike now might only have a gravel bike that they use for road two. Uh, but like cross cross bikes have seemed to kind of converge with gravel bikes. You don't see a lot of high BB cross bikes, at least to my knowledge, on the production side anymore. [00:52:26]Brad Bingham: Correct. I think that's been a, I think that's been driven by how people are actually using the bikes. [00:52:33]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:34]Brad Bingham: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:36]Randall Jacobs (host): right. So we've, we've, we've gone pretty deep on geometry. How about, uh, tubes? [00:52:41]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. So in, in my [00:52:44]Randall Jacobs (host): the levers you can pull? [00:52:45]Brad Bingham: in my world, you know, I work with titanium exclusively, and everything that I have in-house is straight gauge tubing. Um, the [00:52:58]Randall Jacobs (host): Is this all pre preformed as tubes or are you buying any flat sheets and rolling and, and welding them? [00:53:04]Brad Bingham: no, no, the, uh, no, nothing like, [00:53:07]Randall Jacobs (host): like the six four stuff. [00:53:09]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, I have visited some of those factories that, that perform that function. Um, but it's just not, yeah, in my opinion, it's, it's barking up the wrong tree. Um, the tubing that I get, the vast majority of it is from Washington State, from Sandvik, which is actually, they just recently were kind of rebranded to their Swedish parent company name, which is Aima. So it's, [00:53:42]Randall Jacobs (host): Interesting. Sandik makes, um, the wire that's used in spokes as well. [00:53:46]Brad Bingham: uh, I believe it. [00:53:49]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, so like we, we use Pillar Spokes and they use Sandvik. I think SENE does as well, and it makes sense, right? These are high grade, um, high performance, uh, alloys. [00:53:59]Brad Bingham: Yeah. [00:54:00]Randall Jacobs (host): Huh, I didn't know that. [00:54:01]Brad Bingham: there's, there's only two, two places in the United States that produces titanium tubing. And that's, uh, Alma in Washington State and Hayes in Louisiana, [00:54:13]Randall Jacobs (host): And that's actually produced. So they're, they're getting the raw material from somewhere and they're forming it into tubes here, forming it into alloys here, or alloying it, and then forming it here. [00:54:25]Brad Bingham: Yeah. The, the, what they refer to as Tube Hollow, that is kind of the last step of the process before it actually becomes a tube that, that Tube Hollow is all sorted out. Like the alloy is correct, the condition is correct, and then they manufacture the tube from that. Um, and then at that, from that point forward, you know, all they can, all they can do to it is, uh, alter the condition through a kneeling and, and working [00:54:58]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. Okay. [00:54:59]Brad Bingham: So I get most, the vast majority of my tubes come from Washington State. And those come in, uh, typically in like 17 foot lengths. Um, yeah. [00:55:13]Randall Jacobs (host): So you have a dedicated truck coming to you, you're buying [00:55:16]Brad Bingham: Oh yeah. [00:55:17]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. To move that sort of thing. You're not, you're not doing less than, less than container load. You're doing like a a box trucker or something? [00:55:24]Brad Bingham: yeah. I mean, it usually comes by freight. It's, uh, and then you have, you know, minimum footage requirements, um, per purchase. So, and, and that's minimum footage, requirement per diameter, per wall thickness. [00:55:40]Randall Jacobs (host): Mm-hmm. [00:55:40]Brad Bingham: So you have to buy, you know, um, it ends up being thousands of feet of material to have enough material selection on hand that you feel good about the, the tubing you can offer. [00:55:56]Randall Jacobs (host): So you're buying, and this is just, you're sourcing just for yourself. You're not consolidating with other builders. [00:56:01]Brad Bingham: Correct. Yeah. Nobody else. [00:56:04]Randall Jacobs (host): That's a, yeah, that's a big commitment of, uh, of capital. [00:56:08]Brad Bingham: It is, it's very, very large. Um, [00:56:11]Randall Jacobs (host): So I would imagine like you basically spend a whole bunch of money early in the season and, well, I, no, I guess you're, you're probably able to kind of keep your demand consistent over the years. So you probably do a couple buys a year or something like [00:56:23]Brad Bingham: yeah. You end up buying enough material that you're gonna be, you, you'll have that material for literally years, you know, all, so, [00:56:33]Randall Jacobs (host): I would think especially some of the more esoteric SKUs with high, high, um, uh, minimum order quantities. [00:56:39]Brad Bingham: correct. [00:56:40]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:56:41]Brad Bingham: Yeah. But it's okay. Like, yeah. That's, that's the, that is the titanium world, because if, if you want the highest quality American made tubing, then that's, that's what it takes, period. [00:56:54]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, [00:56:54]Brad Bingham: There's other way to get it. [00:56:56]Randall Jacobs (host): And then what is, what are other people doing? Are they working through distributors and just hot paying? I'm, I'm curious about the, the business side of it as well. Like, are there, so, so here in the Hudson Valley where I am, we have, uh, vicious cycles and, uh, Um, Carl. Yeah, so Kyle's, I was out on a ride with him the other day. He'll, he'll be at Made as well. I know you'll be at Made too. Um, but he's, he, his other, the other side of his business, I forget the name of it, is the, I think the biggest distributor of steel tubes or one of the biggest distributors of steel tubes. And so you can do small batch, you can order as you go, but presumably pay, pay a premium. But does that sort of thing exist in Ty? Must exist in titanium as well? [00:57:37]Brad Bingham: It [00:57:38]Randall Jacobs (host): Not as much, [00:57:39]Brad Bingham: not, not in the, not in the same way. Um, you can certainly purchase, uh, tube sets like from, uh, data chi, uh, Columbus. Uh, but those are all, you know, Reynolds, um, aura Titanium, but those are all overseas. Third [00:58:02]Randall Jacobs (host): Or is Taiwan right? [00:58:04]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Aus, Taiwan. [00:58:05]Randall Jacobs (host): to their, yeah, I've been to their factory. [00:58:08]Brad Bingham: Yeah. Yeah. I've got some, I have some dropouts coming from them to, to check out. Um, hopefully they're here like today or tomorrow. Um, but, uh, but titanium is, uh, titanium is just such a difficult material to create. There's, there's, you know, not a lot of players, um, in that world. And it's expensive, you [00:58:36]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. [00:58:36]Brad Bingham: so that, yeah, to put that outlay of capital to create tube sets for distribution, like that's being taken on by those larger companies like Columbus, data Chi and such. [00:58:52]Randall Jacobs (host): It reminds me, uh, I'm gonna go off on a, a tangent here. Um, you ever hear about the, the Black Hawk, um, uh, spy plane? Think could do like mock 3.4 [00:59:04]Brad Bingham: yeah, they [00:59:05]Randall Jacobs (host): it was, [00:59:05]Brad Bingham: kerosene coffin. [00:59:08]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah, it used to leak it. The, the temperatures when you're going Mach three plus are so high because you're essentially compressing the air ahead of you and creating that massive shock wave. But also you just, you know, compressing all that heat energy and then there's, it's impossible to dissipate it faster that they, and the expansion in the titanium would be such that they built it so that it was leaking when it took off, and then all the gaps would seal up when you're actually up in the air. And then they'd have to do air to air refueling, [00:59:38]Brad Bingham: I'm kind of a, I'm kind of an SSR 71 Blackbird, um, nerd. [00:59:43]Randall Jacobs (host): Nerd. All right. So then, so then you know about how, um, uh, the, the titanium was sourced [00:59:51]Brad Bingham: Oh, well, no, I, maybe [00:59:54]Randall Jacobs (host): from, from the U S S R through, through like intermediaries. So a us, uh, us you know, Soviet Union. So a US spy plane built to spy on the Soviet Union in, I think, you know, that plane was, uh, launched what in the, in the seventies? [01:00:12]Brad Bingham: The, the Blackbird, [01:00:13]Randall Jacobs (host): was it? Yeah. Was it even earlier? [01:00:15]Brad Bingham: it was earlier. It was developed in the fifties and into the si and into [01:00:19]Randall Jacobs (host): then decommit maybe, then maybe decommissioned in the seventies [01:00:23]Brad Bingham: Well, it was top secret until I forget. I don't know. I forget the date, but, yeah. [01:00:29]Randall Jacobs (host): until, uh, yeah, that I, I always found that interesting that, uh, it's like buy, buying this material that it, but it, it does speak to the fact, not just of Cold War tensions, but also of, you know, even a, a power as seemingly mighty as the US had to source this particular material from an adversary, um, because of what you're speaking to, the difficulty of producing it. Um, Then you get into like the, the properties of this material, which, you know, were essential to being able to create that craft at the time in the first place. But, you know, that craft required major compromises and usability that made it, you know, dangerous and expensive to, to build and operate. Uh, you know, sitting in a pool of kerosene on a runway is, uh, I guess does it light easily? I don't think it lights all that easily, but, um, [01:01:24]Brad Bingham: No, no. They just, [01:01:25]Randall Jacobs (host): still not a good thing. [01:01:26]Brad Bingham: they just said that it, that's what they called it. Um, just because you could smell the, the fuel, you know. Um, but yeah, but the, the SR 71 is a, uh, was a development project, you know, uh, that we can thank for so much of the, the titanium that we use today and, and a lot of the manufacturing, you know, the manufacturing processes that were used in the nineties, you know, to make, um, to, you know, Merlin Lights, lights, speed, all those brands. Um, yeah. Have you ever been up close to an sr? [01:02:07]Randall Jacobs (host): No. Where can you, where can you do it? [01:02:10]Brad Bingham: um, I think, well they, they tend to travel around to the different air, you know, aerospace, air and space museums. Um, I was up close with one in, uh, McMinnville, Oregon at the Evergreen Aviation Museum, [01:02:27]Randall Jacobs (host): Huh? [01:02:28]Brad Bingham: that was super cool. They, um, they were allowing. You just sit in it as well. And, but then I believe there was one at the, the Pima Air Space Museum in, uh, uh, Tucson. [01:02:45]Randall Jacobs (host): Yep. [01:02:45]Brad Bingham: So, um, yeah, [01:02:46]Randall Jacobs (host): Right by the boneyard, [01:02:48]Brad Bingham: correct. Yeah, [01:02:49]Randall Jacobs (host): which is, uh, the decommissioning location. You just have, if you've ever those listening, if you've ever seen pictures of thousands of aircraft sitting in a desert, that's the boneyard outside of Tucson. It's an insane place. Um, [01:03:03]Brad Bingham: But, but at that, the one I was looking at there, when you went up to the, like the jet engine cowling, you, and you look closely, uh, you, you're looking at these massive pieces of titanium and if you look closely, you can see the end mill machining marks, you can see how that was machined and it was probably done manually. [01:03:31]Randall Jacobs (host): Oh yeah. Especially at that age, uh, at that, uh, that vintage. [01:03:36]Brad Bingham: hours and hours that probably went into that. So pretty, pretty cool. Yeah. Cool stuff. [01:03:42]Randall Jacobs (host): There's, um, y you've probably come across the, there's videos on YouTube with, uh, interviewing the engineers who worked on that project in particular, some of the, oh, um, okay. Welcome to your next rabbit hole. [01:03:54]Brad Bingham: I rarely go down the YouTube rabbit [01:03:56]Randall Jacobs (host): This, this is a worthy one. I would say. There was, there was one, uh, there was a couple interviews I, I watched with, uh, someone who worked on the engines, uh, for that craft. So an engine that's pushing, you know, 3.2, 3.4 m at, you know, again, fifties, sixties technology. Um, and one, it's cool stuff, but two, um, just the delight that, that you see in, in, you know, he's, he's still, you know, in 2023 giving tours and talking about that experience of working on these [01:04:31]Brad Bingham: Mm-hmm. Super cool. [01:04:34]Randall Jacobs (host): Yeah. Um, cool. All right, so we've, we've, thank you for indulging my rabbit hole. Seems like we have another thing in common. Uh, uh, so, so, okay. So you have your tubes. Um, [01:04:49]Brad Bingham: Oh

No, this week's podcast is not about that new pizza place in the mall, it's about the abomination that Moots just gave us. It's about the week of amazing Italian races we are about to enjoy and staircases, lots of staircases.  This podcast is supported by the generous and amazing donors to the Wide Angle Podium Network. Find us, and other fantastic cycling podcasts on the Wide Angle Podium Network, at wideanglepodium.com! Check out the brand new WAP app available in the Apple and Android app stores! You can listen to us in a variety of ways:  Find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or anywhere great podcasts are found. Give us a review and rating! We'd appreciate it! You can email us at theslowridepodcast@gmail.com Find us on Twitter: The show (@theslowridepod) Matt (@Matt46292097) Spencer (@spencerhaugh)

Reach out and touch us shiftlesslive@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/shiftlesslive/message

This week's Geek Warning has James, Ronan, and Dave covering a broad range of topics from Fulcrum's new road wheels, a new airless tyre, and a tyre that's recalled for being unwantedly airless. There's also a surprising amount of chat about e-bikes, but perhaps not for the right reasons. There's the new Moots entering the space, but not with its expected material. Rad Power promises safer batteries, which is great, but also feels late. And yet another recall has us asking whether cheap e-bikes are a responsible product. Timestamps: 4:45 – Moots takes an Express train in an unexpected direction 16:00 – New mid-range performance road wheels from Fulcrum 21:40 – Another attempt at the airless bicycle tyre? 25:42 – A road tyre recall from Pirelli 28:52 – Rad Power announces safer batteries, bit late? 34:38 – And another recall, this one impacts 45,000 bikes! 46:42 – Ashton Lambie gets out of a stick'y situation 51:50 – High-priced wheels are on Dave's mind 56:45 – A PSA for Shimano Di2 users

This week's Geek Warning has James, Ronan, and Dave covering a broad range of topics from Fulcrum's new road wheels, a new airless tyre, and a tyre that's recalled for being unwantedly airless.There's also a surprising amount of chat about e-bikes, but perhaps not for the right reasons. There's the new Moots entering the space, but not with its expected material. Rad Power promises safer batteries, which is great, but also feels late. And yet another recall has us asking whether cheap e-bikes are a responsible product.Timestamps:4:45 – Moots takes an Express train in an unexpected direction16:00 – New mid-range performance road wheels from Fulcrum21:40 – Another attempt at the airless bicycle tyre?25:42 – A road tyre recall from Pirelli28:52 – Rad Power announces safer batteries, bit late?34:38 – And another recall, this one impacts 45,000 bikes!46:42 – Ashton Lambie gets out of a stick'y situation51:50 – High-priced wheels are on Dave's mind56:45 – A PSA for Shimano Di2 users Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You may have noticed something weird that launched, something unexpected. Moots, long known for their high-end titanium bicycles surprised everyone with a carbon fiber gravel e-bike, using a frame material they've never used before, and adding a motor for the first time in their history. I talk to Nate Bradley, Moots' president and one of the key people behind the new model, about how it came to be, why they did it, and what's next for the brand. And, of course, we talk about those wild oversized 750D gravel wheels and tires they showed off at SBT and the MADE show. Check out the full tech story for more photos here: https://bikerumor.com/moots-express-carbon-e-gravel-bike/ And the 750D wheels story here: https://bikerumor.com/new-bicycle-wheel-size-moots-prototype-750d-wheels-tires-wtb/ WANT MORE?  Find the Bikerumor Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Podbean, and through RSS, or wherever you listen to podcasts! Can't find it? Let us know which players you use so we can get them up to speed! And let us know who you want us to interview. Click that PODCAST link in the menu and send in your suggestions! Hit like, hit subscribe, and hit play. Then just get out and ride! FOLLOW BIKERUMOR Keep tabs on all the latest bikes, wheels, components, gear and tech on The World's Largest Cycling Tech Blog by following us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. FOLLOW TYLER Like us? Love us? Follow your host, Tyler Benedict, on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn

This week's episode is part 2 of our interviews from the Made Bike Show in August 2023. We speak with Moots, Fat Chance, Hot Salad, Seeker, Neuhaus, Pinebury, Circa, Story Street, Paul's Components, Stinner, Horse, Frameworks and Bosch. Episode Sponsor: Hammerhead Karoo 2 (promo code:THEGRAVELRIDE) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I've got round two of my interviews from the made bike show in Portland, Oregon. In this week's episode, we've got John from moots. It's talking about that seven 50 B wheel size got Chris from fat chance. Be vivid from hot salad. Chris McGovern from seeker and McGovern cycles. Nick new house, the pine Berry team, circa story street. Paul's components, Aaron from Stenner. A horse. Frameworks Bosch. We've got it all. Another exciting episode. Can I tell you how jazz that was to attend this show and get all these great interviews And I guarantee I'll have some of them on, for longer form interviews so we can get an even deeper dive as to their backstory and what they're all about as a brand. And frame builder. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor hammerhead. And the hammerhead crew to computer. As many of you wind down your advent seasons, you may be looking forward to a winter filled with exploration and adventure rides. And there's no better device than the hammerhead crew too, for those adventures. It's the most advanced GPS cycling computer available today with industry leading mapping navigation and routing capabilities that set it apart from other GPS had units. You can seamlessly import. Roots from Strava commute and more you can route and reroute on the fly and create pin dropping routing with all with turn by turn directions. With upcoming elevation changes. You know, this device is always up to date with the latest software as they do biweekly software updates, making sure that they're adding the latest features, whether you bought the device two years ago or tomorrow, you're ready to go with a hammerhead kuru too. For a limited time, our listeners can get a free heart rate monitor with the purchase of the crew to visit hammerhead. Dot IO right now and use the code, the gravel ride. At checkouts today, it's an exclusive limited time offer for our podcast listeners. So don't forget that promo code. Just add the heart rate, monitor to your cart, along with the crew too, and use the code, the gravel ride today. With that said let's jump right in to all these conversations from the made bike show in portland oregon [00:02:48] Jon | Moots: Can I get your name and brand? John Caribou from moots based outta Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Good to see you again, John. You too. One of the like, moots doesn't need a lot to draw attention to itself. The titanium frames have always been gorgeous. We've had you on the pod. I've toured the factory. I know the type of work you do, but one of the bikes you have today is making a lot of noise here at the Maid show for a very specific reason. Can you talk about that? Yeah. It's Yeah very much in prototype stage right now. But the seven 50 D wheel size seems to be catching a lot of people interest and, comments out there on the social medias. But yeah, it's, I think it just lends itself to the lineage and the heritage of Moots over time. Just always being on that forefront of innovation and trying different things. It doesn't mean that. This is a defacto new standard by any stretch. It's definitely a new option and honestly that, that wheel size been, has been ridden for some over the last four to five years. We just haven't seen it. Gotcha. And you W t B was the partner who came to you with the rim and the tire, presumably, to explore this. People who've been around mountain bikes for a while will remember that. 26 to 29 moments. Can you talk about what's the rationale behind a bigger wheel size? Yeah. It's, to me being around the industry long enough, I do remember the introduction of the 29, and it was the same company that, W t V that came to us with a rim and a tire at, in 98 and said, what do you think about this? Let's, do you want to build maybe a test bike? And we all know, the. History of the 29 inch proliferation in the bike world, and not that this is gonna happen there, but always nice to be nimble enough to set up and build a frame around a given wheel size. And Moots is in that position to be able to do that. Yeah I remember that moment and getting on the first 29 ERs and thinking it took a little bit more to get the wheel going, but when you rolled over stuff and when you had those bikes going, It was remarkable for me and I was a very early convert to that bigger wheel size. So it's just a curious kind of intellectual process I'm going through and understanding like, what would a gravel bike feel like as someone who rides very technical terrain, I could see the advantages of rolling over stuff more easily. And you mentioned the contact patch extending on a bigger wheel and what that might mean to the rider. Yeah, I think it's, if you think about. Riding gravel. There's not a lot of extremely technical situations where you're making hard turns. It's a lot of straight line speed. It's a lot of straight line hits to the outer edge of the tire and rim combination at that point. So making it longer and, quite a bit bigger, spreads that out and lessens, washboard, it lessens baby heads and whatever you might encounter. In a similar passion that the 29 did for the mountain bike world. Yeah, I think it's just been really interesting as gravel you could argue that it started out as being road bikes plus as we started to allow bigger tires in there and explore different terrain. But it's super interesting as we get into this moment many years into the gravel evolution, to start just exploring things differently and thinking about, yeah, it doesn't need to feel like a road bike as you're going faster and these bikes are getting more capable. Who knows, maybe a bigger tire size and bigger start, a bigger ring rim size will have advantages that riders will start to see as they start to spend time on this new size. Yeah it'll be interesting and, we're anxious to put more time on it. Honestly our time has been limited, but we're getting there and, throughout this fall, late summer, we'll be logging miles and jotting down our thoughts and getting feedback to W T B and. Anybody that would be interested in listening. Yeah. Amazing. Thanks John. I can't wait for that additional feedback. Yeah, Craig, thanks for having us. [00:06:54] Chris | Fat Chance: Okay. Can I get your name and the brand? Yeah. The name is Chris Chance and the brand is Fat Chance Bikes. We're now building all our bikes in Medford, Oregon. Got a nicely set up shop there and we've just introduced the Thai crisscross, been doing it in steel for a number of years and I'm really excited to be doing it in titanium and the people that have been buying them are really excited to ride them. Were you working with titanium with the mountain bikes many years ago to begin with? Yes. Yeah, we started in 93, building a titanium yoti. Okay. Called it a fat chance back then. But yeah, so we built a bunch of titanium bikes and getting back into, you know, relaunching the brand. A couple of years ago we were mostly doing steel, but you know, Ty really called me back. What do you like about Ty for for a gravel bike purpose? Well, in general I love Thai because, you know, it never rusts. It's got a nice kind of springy resilience to it. I I like to do the engineering where we're, I have much experience in steel in designing bikes and tube diameters and wall thicknesses to get the, the, the ride properties I want, the the resilience, the, the stiffness where I want it, and the, just the lively feel in the bike. And so I I translate the stiffness of a steel tube into titanium using a computer, and that way you get all the benefits of titanium. It's lightness, it's kind of springy feel, but I'm designing the bike more for the stiffness of the ride. So it gives you the performance you want as you're riding, like, especially like off road, you know, if you're going down a, say a trail at like as much as 30 miles an hour, your bike is, you know, bouncing around or whatever, and you're just focused on where the front wheel is going. But if you're bouncing around a bunch, your body is taking information from what the rear wheel is doing through your feet and you, without really being conscious of it, you're doing the corrections of that through the pedals, cranks and, and frame to the wheel to keep the rubber side down. And so how the bike feels is just really important to me that I want to have the rider and the bike work as one. Right. And so having that, that ability to Sense what the bike is doing at some, like, not even a conscious level, but developing the trust that the bike is there for you, you know, you can do what you wanna do and the bike is, is supporting you and having that peak experience. What is the customer journey to get a, a fat chance at this point? Is it, is it a custom process? Are you building stock frames? We built stock frames, but we do some custom sizing and you can you can email us at yo at Fat Chance Bike. And get the conversation started. There's also a phone number on our website, fat chance.bike. It's do bike instead of.com and we can talk on the phone, we can do email and just get everything nailed and build you an awesome bike. I know some of the, you know, challenges in working with titanium tubes are around tire clearance and things like that. Yeah. What, what kind of tire clearance can you achieve? Yeah, so we can do pretty much any tire clearance, if you notice on this spike. We have what we call a demi yolk. Yep. And that affords us the same rigidity, excuse me that a full tube would, would offer, but gives us the, the clearance for wide tires. Like this bike will take up to like a, a 44 millimeter 700 C or a 2.1 up to two inches or 2.1 inches. And if you need to write a double, we can account for that. Typically our stock bikes are just one buys up front. Got it. But we have a lot of room because we're using this demi oak design. And what kind of turnaround time do you look at to get a bike? Yeah. Right now we're in the roughly eight to 12 weeks, depending on the model. Okay. Yeah. Pretty quick. Yeah. That's great. Thanks Chris. All right. [00:10:36] B Vivid | Hot Salad Bicycles: Can I get your name and brand? Yes. It's B Vivid from Hot Salad Bicycles B. Where are you building out of? We're here in Portland. Okay. Yeah. And how did you get into Frame Building? Oh, long story. Give us a short version. We can have you back for the long form one. Okay. I used to sit at Destroy Bike Co in the Bay Area and Sean Eagleton was building bikes there and I was like, this is a thing, I can build bikes. That is absolutely what I'm doing. 15 years later, here I am debuting hot salad bicycles. And I've been chasing welding all over the country. Amazing. So you've built up your expertise and now you're ready to go out with hot salad. Yes, exactly. So you're a custom builder. So talk about the customer journey. Like how do you like to get to know the customer so that you can build the bike that's right for them? What kind of materials do you use? Yeah, so I build in steel and titanium. And I like to talk to the customer. We have quite a few emails back and forth. I would just wanna know where you're riding. Like what are you riding on? What do you like to ride fast? Is that a thing? Do what is your current favorite bike that you like to ride? And then what don't you like about that bike? Yeah. Those are the basics. If we're having that conversation, just say, for example I've been on like a random carbon bike, some specialized bike, and I like the way it feels. Sometimes I, even me, I have a hard time articulating like, what is it that I like or what have I, what I don't like? How do you eke out those qualities that then translate to you as an artisan giving me what I really am expressing? Absolutely. I do some research, right? I go look at that specialized bike and I see what specialize is saying about it. But I also know the inherent differences between carbon, titanium, steel, right? Titanium is gonna be a little flexer. So if we're trying to make a carbon feel, which is what Rook asked for on her bike you're gonna have to go up a tube size right. And that's gonna make it a little bit stiffer, give you that snappier ride quality of a carbon bike when Ty is so much flexer. Gotcha. So there's just small things like that where over the years I collected those tidbits from other builders and other people who are willing to gimme time. Amazing. Yeah. And what type of bikes do you like to build? All types. I'm down for the weird ideas. I built that titanium clunker behind you as well that I showed at Philly Bike Expo. And then this is a beautiful all road that wanted to be a little bit more aggressive because Rook is an excellent rider. And I make commuter bikes. I just making, so it doesn't really matter what type of bike it is. And from a customer interaction, how long does it take to get a bike? Once they've, once you've locked down the design elements of it, you've done your research. How long does it take to produce a bike and get it back out to the customer? Yeah, probably about a month. And I know that's a long time, but I'm currently doing all of my own finish work as well. So unless you want me to send it to Black Magic or something like that. And then it could be probably as little as two weeks. And how do you think about finish work? Are you doing your own painting or are you doing anodizing? What kind of options do you make available for customers? Depends on the material, obviously. Yeah. But I have a powder coder who is excellent and he can do fades, he can do sharp lines. And then I also have, I do. I did the t anodizing on this as well. And then, yeah, those are the two options that I currently offer, but I'm hoping to add wet paint in the nearest future. Okay. Okay. And what's the best way for people to find out more about the brand and your story? Yeah, hot salad bicycles.com. Okay. And are you on Instagram and any, the socials? I'm hot salad underscore bicycles on Instagram. Got it. Thanks for the time. B Yeah, thank you. [00:14:06] Chris | Seeker & McGovern: Can I get your name and brand? Chris McGovern. And now what brand are you gonna say? That's my question. We're here with Seeker right now. We do have a McGovern bike in the house, but we're launching Seeker bike company today. Yeah. That's awesome. So McGovern bikes, custom carbon bikes. Yep. Great looking stuff. You've been building for a while. Yep. But we got these seekers in front of us. So tell me about the brand. The intention and what we're doing here. Yeah. Basically with these metal bikes, the steel and titanium gravel bikes, I'm just trying to get, basically make it more available, get people on bikes, on building more readily available, easier to do. Obviously the materials are superior. Materials for riding gravel, the carbon customer is a different customer, basically, yeah. Where are you building these bikes? These are be, these are being built in the, in Portland. Oregon. Okay. At the moment they're going to be built in Olympia, Washington eventually. But yeah, US made, yeah. And what's the customer journey look like? Or do you have stock sizes? Is this a custom jam? Yeah, so we're gonna do stock with custom options, basically. Okay. So the geo will be stock 50 to 60 centimeters and two centimeter increments. But we can customize anything. So I want you to go to the website, be like, yep, I'm a 54. I want that stock color. I want that build kit. Boom. And we're gonna try to have that two week turnaround. And when I think about my, like tire size desires and things like that, do you have flexibility there or have you built around a particular tire vision? So the gravel this version of bike is designed around a 45 C 700 by 45 and up to a 46 tooth single ring. So it could be two by or one by. Gotcha. But I want you to be able to do unbound and throw the big meat on if you're rolling, if you're Keegan Swenson or whatever, you wanna roll that big single Yeah. With the the mullet build or the Explorer build, whatever. Yeah. We want to have that clearance for that. So we've designed around that. Yeah. And you mentioned you're offering a steel bike and a tie bike. What do we see different visually between the two bikes and what sort of adaptations do you make going to tie from the steel? So on. What we see here basically is the same geometry, same style. We have a different seat stay cluster on this one. I do think that the tie bike will end up being the mono stay, like the steel. Okay. We're just need, we're working on repeatability of that. Tie's a little bit trickier to bend but we're gonna do that, I'm pretty sure. The same weeding of the tubes, the down tube is swedged for a little bit to the T 47 bottom bracket. So it's a little stiffer, laterally, 44 mil head tubes. The geometry will be very similar. The, if you've ridden tie, the ride quality is a little bit different. Yeah. Titanium's kind of like air quotes, the forever material. So that's why the tie offering is there. It's a different customer again. Nice. Yeah. Let's talk quickly, Chris, about the origin of the Seeker brand. 'cause I do remember this project at the very earliest start of Covid. Yeah. Lockdowns. Yeah I've, okay. I've been riding bikes for a million years and your brain goes in weird places when you're riding your bike all the time by yourself. And I've had this saddlebag designed in my head forever, and usually just meant I'd come home from a training ride and get the scissors out and chop on the bag I was currently using. And during Covid, for whatever reason, I just decided I got on Amazon, ordered a sewing machine, bought some fabric, and started making saddlebag. I love it. And it turned out to be really good. Some people wanted it, so I made some for some friends and then I was like, oh, I'm gonna get some labels. And I actually was labeling them as McGovern cycles thinking, Hey, when someone buys a bike, I'm going to throw a saddle bag in their box. Yeah. And then bike shops wanted 'em and I was like, ah, it's gotta be something else. So we came up with the seeker logo. I worked on the artwork with Matt Loomis, who's done a bunch of work with Paul Components. We came up with this cool logo. And the people like it. Like we've been selling a lot of t-shirts and stuff and so I felt oh, this branding is strong. Let's do some bikes. Yeah. I think it's super evocative seeker. Yeah. Exploration. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Are you I've seen you explore a lot of different bag. Options for your running. Yeah. For various things. Yeah. Are you now just settled on the seat pack as being the one product from Secret? Oh, no. So it's our only like stock product for the bags right now. I do some top two bags. I do some I call it the rapid response bag, like for racing scenarios, it's like quick to it. I do frame bags. Those are a little bit more custom. They require a template. Yeah. I build, I built hydration vests. I built. Fast packs. I built backpacks. I'll sew anything really. But I think the secret stuff, we're gonna keep it towards the bike oriented stuff. Possibly. The new website is Secret Adventure Gear, so it's still open-ended. Yeah. You're ready to go? Yeah. We're ready to go. We're ready for whatever you need. We're ready. I was just gonna ask, what's the best place for people to find out more information about the bikes and the bags? I think right now as the Instagram handle, yeah. Okay. Is a secret At secret, a dv. The website is secret venture gear.com. Sweet. Yeah. Thanks for sharing this, Chris. Yeah, thank you. [00:19:07] Nick | Neuhaus: Can I get your name and brand? I'm Nick Newhouse with Newhouse Metalworks. Nick, where are you building out of? We're building out of Novato, California, so Northern Bay Area. Nice. Right up the road from myself in Mill Valley. That's it. I started to hear about your brand through a neighbor in Mill Valley who had one of your hard tail mountain bikes and then later learned you've been doing some gravel bikes. Can you just talk a little bit about the brand and the type of gravel bikes you're putting out there in the world? Yeah, so we just released this weekend actually our steel anti Tanium drop bar, bike lines. The steel line is the Solana. It'll be available in a road, an all road and a gravel version. And to pick the part, those three different categories, what do they translate to? Yeah, so the road version will have a 32 C max. It'll fit a double chain ring larger sizes for those longer road rides. The all road model kind of blends a little bit of gravel, a little bit of road, right. It's got a, a little bit of that road geometry. It'll fit up to a 40 C tire. Still can fit a double chain ring and then the gravel model will go up to a 48 C tire. And it'll be won by specific for those rougher roads, dirt roads, gravel roads wherever you wanna take it. Gotcha. And I interrupted you, I think you were gonna move on to the titanium model over here. Yeah. So the Eon is our titanium version of that. It'll be offered in the exact same configurations. So you'll have your road, you'll have your all road, and you'll have your gravel. We will also offer the eon in an advanced model, which will be very much a, a custom frame set and a departure from our stock sizing. And it'll come with three D printed dropouts that are unique to your specific build. Okay. And it does look like on this titanium model, you're doing some unique stuff with three D printing already. Yeah, so we we use three D printing on all of our bikes. You know, it's not a gimmick. We use it to make sure that we're building the best bike for our customers and the best bike that we can possibly put out into the world without you know, going to a point where they're just, you know, this unobtainable price point. So we always three d print our y yolk. It just, it helps us have flexibility and material choices for rider, weight, size use. We do that on our mountain bikes and all of our drop bar bikes. Got it. And what was, what's sort of the quick origin story of the brand? Yeah, so I've got a a background in motor sports. I've always kind of just fabricated things. Always been a cyclist, you know, you can't grow up in Marin County and not ride bikes. And a couple years ago people finally just wanted to, you know, they, they were knocking on the door wanting to buy bikes and, you know, I wanted to build good bikes. So, yeah. Am I correct? The sort of origin started building. Hardtail mountain bikes. Yeah. That's definitely what we're known for. Okay. So our, our hummingbird model, definitely our top seller. Well received, well reviewed and we're just looking to expand that success into the drop bar market. Nice. And working with both titanium and steel, obviously there's different challenges and different learning curve around working with titanium. Did you start doing titanium on the mountain bikes? We did. Okay. Yeah. So You know, titanium has just always been something that was present, needed to be done. You know, it's like there's a right bike for everybody. There's a right material for everybody based on use, based on needs, based on price point. The way I like to say it right is your steel bike. It's your Cadillac, C T SS V ride's. Great. You can live with it day to day. It comes in at a good price point. The titanium bike is your Corvette. It's sportier. It's faster, right? You know, maybe not the greatest for taking the family to the park. But it serves a purpose as well. Got it. What's the customer journey look like for you? If they've discovered the brand, what does it look like from them getting into contact with you for the first time to getting a bike in their door? Yeah, so we really try to maintain the quickest lead time possible. Right now we're at four months. Our throughput is very high. We have a very manufacturable process right there in Marin County. If a customer wants a bike, they have options. You can order a bike on our website. You can order your build kit on our website. You can email us, we can help you with sizing. It's really, you know, the door is open to, to the customer experience that's desired. Okay, gotcha. Cool. Well I look forward to seeing you later this year at Adventure Revival Ride. Yeah. With the Marin County Bike Coalition and definitely have to check out your facility at some point. Definitely, yeah, we'll be moving into a new shop shortly and we plan to have an open house, so we'd love to have you there. Fantastic, thanks. Thank you. [00:23:28] Kyle | Pinebury: Can I get your name and the brand? Kyle Rancourt. And the brand is Pine. Berry. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're showing here from Pine Berry? Yeah. We make lightweight Marino, wool cycling apparel and active wear. Nice. And where are you manufacturing? In Massachusetts. Our first production one was made in Massachusetts and we're also manufacturing in Allentown, Pennsylvania and Hilderbrand North Carolina for our, our knitwear. And when did you launch the brand? April, 2023. Okay. April of this year. Yeah. And what was it about wool and the type of wool you're using that inspired you to go on this journey and start the brand? I wanted to, mainly, I wanted to make the cycling apparel and active wear that I wanted to wear. And I fell in love with lightweight, you know, performance Marino wool a long time ago. And I haven't seen anybody really in the industry focus on that. It always seems like. It's sort of an afterthought for some of the brands, like they'll have a small collection or a piece or two. And so when doing research before starting this brand, I discovered this amazing fabric in, in yarn manufacturer outta New Zealand called New Yarn. Okay? They have a patented yarn spinning technology. It's twist free spinning. So when you, when you spin merino yarn and it gets twisted, you take out a lot of the natural benefits of the fiber. You reduce elasticity, durability, and loft. And so breathability and new yarn with their twist free spinning they're, they're able to make a fabric that's almost nine times more durable. It has 85% more elasticity. It's five times faster drying, and the list goes on. It sounds like it just, Supercharges what we know about wool to begin with. Exactly. That's the perfect way to put it. So is it, is it still considered Marino wool or is this like an entirely new word we need to learn? That's a great question. I still refer to it as Marino wool. Okay. But new yarn kind of is, is branding it as performance wool. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, you know, you were talking about building this brand around. Sort of purpose-built cycling clothing. And those was that was the cycling clothing you'd wanted to wear and Yeah. Yeah. My experience, like I, I love Marino. I kind of think about it from a hiking perspective and went on a bike packing trip and wanted to wear a t-shirt, so I grabbed a hiking Marino wool wool shirt. So it's super cool that you're focused on kind of cycling as your core market. Obviously the clothing works everywhere else. Yeah. Do you wanna talk a little bit about, it seems like you have both kind of performance tees. As well as jerseys, right? Yeah. Yeah. And actually I like that you brought that up. 'cause I, I wanted to make a point there about our performance tees. Even though they are meant for sort of all sports and all outdoor activities, they have some elements of, of cycling built into them. Like they're a bit longer than a typical tee. They're longer in the back than they are in the front. And actually I'm working on developing a tee that would have a. A zippered pocket in the back of it. Okay. Like a pullover tea that has a zippered pocket. So, nice. Yeah. What's the best way for people to learn more about the brand and the products? It go to our website, pine Bury Us. We have a ton of information on there. We have a whole page dedicated to new yarn. We have a whole page dedicated to our story, you know, in, in addition to domestic manufacturing, all our products remain in the us. We're also plastic free. All of our packaging and shipping materials are plastic free and recyclable. And we have, you know, a real commitment to like sustainability in the environment. I love it. And are people ordering directly from your website today? Yeah. You can order directly and we ship anywhere in the world. Okay. Yeah. One of the final questions I'll ask you is, you know, oftentimes I think in, at least in my mind, historically, will got, will got, will got categorized as something that I'm gonna wear when it's cold. Yeah. Great. Can you dispel or affirm that statement? No, that's a great question. It is not just for cold weather. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanna underline that we are actually specializing in lightweight wool that can be worn year round. In spring 24. We'll have an ultra light Marino that would, will blow people away at how light and fast drying it is and could be worn in, in the hottest of climates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew that. I was teasing a little bit. Because I'm with you. It's like, I remember on that bike packing trip, it was quite hot on during the days, and it's just a great material in terms of how it handles moisture, how it dries, how it feels, and I'm, I'm a little bit surprised more people don't understand that and embrace it. Right. My, my favorite way to put this is to get in a little, a little like sciency here. Our body's cooling system is evaporative, right? We're evaporative cooling system. So you heat up, you sweat. The, the, the sweat captures heat and when it evaporates, it carries the heat away from your body. So you want a garment that's gonna support that system. Marina wool is by far the best to do that. It is, it's able to wick moisture away from the body at the vapor stage, so before it turns into a liquid. So that's why it can dry fast five times faster than synthetics or conventional Marino. Yeah, this new yard Marino. Awesome. Thanks for sharing all that. Yeah, thank you. [00:28:39] Rich | Circa: All right. Can I get your name and the brand? My name is Rich Fox and I'm the founder of Circa Cycles in Portland, Oregon. You beat me to my next question, which is, where are you building? We're in Portland right now. And you're a Portland based builder? We are, yeah. We've been doing this in Portland for, I started the company 10 years ago. The first two years we're pretty much r and d. As you can see we do things a little bit differently than some folks do, and the first couple of years were just spent basically in our underground lab. And we always with the same, we will get into what is different about these bikes, but using this same technique from the get go, the underlying philosophy. Yes. There were some things we and the first generation prototypes definitely are different from where we ended up. Sure. So why don't you talk about, the attributes of the bike that make it different than almost anything I've seen today. Oh, okay. Sure. So what you're looking at is a bonded anodized aluminum. Lugged frame. So we're anodized lugged and bonded aluminum. And which you can also laser etch into, which is also another fun thing that you brought. Pretty amazing finishes I see over there in the corner. Thanks. So when we talk about lugs, and I did talk to another builder who was working with lugs, which were the much more traditional style that my father's road bike has, we're definitely not talking about those type of lugs here. We're talking about a lot more substantial. Parts of the bike in your version of a lug? Yeah. In, I guess I'd have to, I'd have to ask you what stands out as how sub What do you mean by substantially? I think this sort of oversize nature, like it appears to the naked eye. Oh, okay. That almost the entire kind of seat collar area that's joining the top tube and the seat tube is one large lug rather than a petite. Crafted one that got TIG welded. Okay. Yeah. There are a few things going on. So as I was, when we'd made the decision to get away from welding altogether and work with the bonded assembly, we knew that we would, we'd also made the decision around the same time that if we're gonna bond, we're gonna have to create our own lug system. If we're gonna create our own lug system, it's gotta be. Because, and we would've to create our own lug system because it'd have to be something that Maxim maximizes the performance characteristics of the adhesive systems that we're gonna be using. So there's nothing off the shelf that you can buy that's going to do that. So we'd have to engineer a solution that would handle that for us. Along the way we decided, okay, we don't want to cast those lugs because the general volume strategies around bike frame manufacturing and the way that things. Change over even the way that angles change across size variations in a frame. 'cause they don't scale geometrically or logically in a way. Yeah. We would have to, we would need some kind of a lug manufacturing strategy that would be able to do lower volume and give us incredibly precise control over certain aspects. For example, the tube to the tube to lug interface we need. Super, super tight control at that bond gap. Yeah. And we'd also really need to understand a lot about the bond surfacing itself. So the reason those lugs are somewhat beefy is that a few things are going on. One is that we are trying to maximize contact area for the bond. Yeah for the bond. Two, we are solving a problem of We want the thing to look stout. Yeah. You in the way early days of of deciding what we were doing, there were prototypes that we put in front of people that's, and they said, oh, that looks fragile. And if you're already doing something that's a bit unique and a little bit quite, is off the beaten trail to some re in some respects, you need to do a. W put some extra design work into a SW and keep things that people might be concerned over. So what type of technique are you using, say, for this head tube? Are you machining that out of a block of aluminum? Yes. Everything, all of the connectives on the frame. So all of the lugs, the dropouts any connectives on the seat stays, et cetera. Those are all proprietary things that we've designed, engineered in c and seeded from solid blocks of aluminum billet. Gotcha. I'm using a combination of three, four, and five axis. C N C machines. Yeah. It's interesting when you look at the junction up here on the C tube connecting these tubes in that bolted in right. Does that sort of create limitations around the sort of tire diameters that you can achieve for a gravel bike? No. No. That's definitely that. While there are certain areas on this, the frame that we're looking at right now, that might be a little, that might have a restriction for what you can do that's not the, that's not the, that's not the area. Okay. So that particular solution that's going on there is driven by the fact that the C NNC work that we do, the precision the complexity of the parts, the precision of the details, the quality of the finish work that we're trying to achieve makes those parts. And at a volume that we're not a hundred thousand a year manufacturer. Yeah. The volumes that we're working at makes those parts pretty expensive. So ultimately we have to find ways. Of elegantly identifying components in the frame assembly that we can do in higher volumes so that we can offset the cost. So at the top of the seat stays those plugs, you'll see the same part. This is the same part as what's on the other side, it's mirror. Yeah. So that's two of, two of the same part on the same frame. That's good. But now I can use that same part on any on any frame size. Gotcha. Which gives me some extra flex, so all of a sudden I can really amortize out the cost of that part across lots of different frame sizes. Yeah, I feel like this is a bike that needs to be seen to be best understood, to Definitely encourage listeners to go and check out the show notes and find a link to circa bicycles. Ride circa.com. Right on. And yeah, just as far as like the customer journey goes, if once someone discovers the brand, what does it look like to get a bike underneath them? Are you building fully custom bicycles or is it a stock range? We don't do, we found that we don't really need to do fully custom. Yeah. An interesting byproduct of our manufacturing strategy is that because we have this modular kit of parts, essentially that we've developed over time is that it lets us, our, we consider it we have three, three fit options. Essentially, we have a standard geo which is suited towards. The majority of the population from a arm and leg and torso length Yeah. Standpoint. But we also are really easily able to create a long reach or a short reach version of the same design. Yeah. And that's basically a free thing. So we're essentially doing semi-custom geometry for free. If you do have a fit scenario where you need to be upright or you want to be more if you have a long torso. A short torso. Yeah. Or you have some kind of a, a. Physical limitation if you have less mobility in your back or more mobility. Yeah. If you needed a sort of a higher stack would you adjust the machined head tube to achieve that? Or is that not an area that you adjust? It's typically not necessary. Okay. We, our size range right now is pretty broad. Our, we have the, our platform goes from an what we call our extra small, which Although you can't see it in our conversation here, this is the seat tube for our extra small, okay. Which is for those folks listening imagine basically something about the length of A B M X seat tube. So we created that for a rider who had, I think she required a 711 millimeter standover. It's either seven 11 or eight 11. One of those, okay. But very super short stand. So we created like a 17 degree sloping top tube for her. And but now that's become our extra small platform. Nice. Covers a pretty petite rider. And then our extra large platform goes up to 6 3, 6 4 riders. Okay. So between that size range and the ability to pull the cock pin in and out we feel like we do a pretty good job of accommodating most. G I'm sure most fit requirements. Super cool. And what is the typical turnaround time? It depends on on load at any given time, but bare minimum is six weeks. And that just depends, but that's bare minimum. And it can go out to two to three months depending, but sell them longer than that. The only time we've ever had something that really stretched. Was during the nightmare of Covid times. Yeah. And nobody could get any parts. Yeah. So the frames would be done and we'd be sitting around really hoping our order from shaman or RA would show up of course. Which they never did well. Super striking bikes and encourage people to go take a look at 'em. Thanks for the time. Thank you so much for paying attention for for Karen. [00:37:22] Devin | Story Street: Can I get your name and the brand? Yeah. My name is Devin Ross and I am the owner and the builder for Story Street cycles. How did you get started building? I've been working in the ski in the in and the bike industry since about 2006, and most of my experience was through on the service side of things and retail and sales. Kind of on a whim back in 2015, decided to take a frame building. Course at U B I in Ashland and kind of really enjoyed it and started doing some more kind of small custom building for friends and family. And over the last few years have developed that into kind of our first run of production, small batch frames. We do a. All road frame and then an all mountain frame. Cool. Let's talk about this all road frame. Does it have a, a, a sort of model name or just your all road? It's just the ar. Okay. I have the AR and the am What are you building this frame out of? So the frame is out of steel. It is kind of a combination of Columbus steel and a little bit of the kasai tubing from Japan. The All of the hardware and all of the small components such as the head tube, the bottom bracket, and dropouts are all from Paragon Machine Works. And then the finishing kits kind of are all the color matched options from Wolf Tooth. And what size wheel are you running on this bike? This current one is a six 50 B with 2.1 tires on there. Okay. The general frames are, Designed with clearance up to 45. I think usually like a 38 to a 42 for a lot of this type of riding is kind of the sweet spot. But we can, we got clearance and everything to go up to some bigger options. Nice. And what's sort of the, the customer journey when they discover you? You mentioned you've sort of brought a small batch phenomenon. Mm-hmm. So you have a handful of bikes in stock. You typically try to fit them on one of those models and Yes. So we do. On the all road side, we have a 52, 54, 56, and 58 in the pre-made ones. The frames are all kind of built and welded and ready to go. And then when a customer is ready to to purchase them, then we will kind of figure out what the overall paint scheme and the the highlight. So the, all of the frames are gonna be painted, are gonna be powder coated to the customer specification. And then all of the finishing kit and everything, our decals, we try to go along the same kind of seven standard colors that wolf tooth does, just to make all of the, the matching and everything like that make your accessorizing easy. So that way we can still get the, the same custom kind of one of a kind finish that that people can get with choosing their color and choosing their finishing kit without the the longer lead time. For a full custom build. If people are still interested in doing kind of their own custom geometry we see that a lot with people looking for a little bit taller of a head tube. A lot of times people that have maybe longer torsos, shorter legs and stuff, we still do offer those options to do a fully custom in either of our. Or All Road or, or All Mountain. Okay. And if people wanna find more out about the brand, how do they find you? So we're on Instagram at story street cycles and then our website is story street cycles.com. Awesome. Thank you. Cool. [00:40:55] Paul | Pauls Components: Yeah. Can I get your name and company? Paul Price Paul Component Engineering. Good to meet you Paul. And you too. Thanks. Yeah. I know you've been around the industry for a long time making beautiful componentry outta California. The one area I wanted to talk to you about though are these clamper disc brakes cable actuated, disc brakes. It's something I've long seen on some of the sexiest bikes around, but misunderstood because I had some old, I won't name the brand. Mechanical disc brakes. That really didn't serve me well. This is true. This, yeah. The the cable breaks were always for the cheap bikes and there's certain advantages for cable breaks. And I knew when we developed this thing that there had to be some people that just wanted to keep it simple, but really wanted a really good product and didn't necessarily enjoy bleeding their breaks that much. Yeah. And how, how are you able to achieve. The stopping power of a hydraulic brake with a cable actuated brake. That took about three years and about 10,000 prototypes. But we just make everything to a much tighter tolerance, like we just made it as good as we can. All those other cheap brakes come from Taiwan and everything is just smashed and squished to, to get made. We actually machine to very tight tolerances, so everything fits together really nice. We also bolted up a little bit and figured out a way to just get tons of power out of it. It go ahead And does it mount in the exact same fashion as a hydraulic disc brake would on my bike exactly the same. Exactly. The mounting is exactly the same. Yeah. Okay. And do the different levers have different poll ratios that you need to consider? This is important. Yeah. The long pole lever, which was, is a v brake lever that's called a long pole. And then you can buy the clamper with that arm or a shorter arm for like your road bike levers and your short pole levers. We make something called a cantilever. And then we also make a camp campy version because it pulls a completely different amount of cable as well. And are those. Completely different versions of the brake bracket itself, or are they just a component? No. To you buy the brake, which is not cheap. But you can just change one part to change to match any lever that's around. Got it. And are we using a typical brake pad, disc brake pad in Yeah the pad is a, is came out of an avid model that. It fits a whole bunch of different breaks and we just wanted to pick something to where you could go in a bike shop in the middle of, the desert or New York City or wherever and they're gonna have some pads in stock, so that's not a problem. Going back to my cable pole, breaks of my mountain bike of yester year. Yeah. Now I remember cable stretch needed to be adjusted. Obviously you've got brake pads that'll burn out a little bit. Yeah. How do I deal with that with a clamper product? You first thing you do is you install 'em and then you go on three bike rides. And what that does is it moves all the grease around that's inside all the parts which fit very well together, all get cozy together and the the pads bed into the, to the rotor real nice. And after that, your housing is compressed as it's gonna get your cable stretched on the initial stretch. And you're good to go. And one of your colleagues was showing me a little micro adjust you could do on it, that it seemed like it would tighten the pad up. Is that right? Yeah, both sides, there's adjustment which you can actually do on the road or trail, which is a really nice feature. Absolutely. Yeah. What's the best way for people to find out about Paul's components? Paul comp.com. P a u l c o m p.com. And And check that out. Send us an email, give us a call if you have any questions. Perfect. Thank you. You're welcome. [00:44:45] Aaron | Stinner Frameworks: All right. Can I get your name and brand? Yeah. Aaron Stenner Frameworks. Nice, Aaron. And where do you guys build out of? We are in Santa Barbara, California. Nice. And how long have you guys been building? I've been building full-time since 2012. And current team's been in place since 2 20 15. How did you get into it in the first place? I was managing a bike shop and running a pretty robust like fit department, so we were doing a lot of fitting. And I ended up going to U B I to just learn a little bit more about frame building and why angles and why this and why that. And so I learned how to build bike at U B I and I came back and people heard that I knew how to build frames and it just snowballed from there. Yeah, that seems to be the way it works. It's friends and family. Yeah. Then extended friends. And then maybe I got a business on my hands. Exactly. Yeah. So then were you building with steel at that point? Yeah, primarily steel. And I started doing like lug bikes and braised bikes and then morphed into TIG welding. And we've been doing primarily TIG welding bikes since 2013. And are the bikes typically custom built for the customer or is are you doing small batch? So we do we don't we build the order, so we don't have any inventory, but we do have sizing, size models. So we do have a 52, 54, 56 kind of model based and we are model based, meaning like we have a gravel frame model and we have a road model. So model based, we have sizes, but we can do custom geometry depending on what you need. And then we have a paint program that's similar where we have pre-picked schemes or pre-designed schemes, and then you can iterate and design within that. Gotcha. Yeah, I've seen a lot of really stunning sinners out there on the roads. Thank you. Which is great. What is this bike that we're looking at today? Yeah, so we have the, our new Refugio. So we've, our Ravel bike has been our refugio for many years. And this one, The big upgrades is we went from a 45 C tire to now being able to fit a 50 C tire. Brilliant. Keeping Our chain stays still relatively short. These are at like 4 28. And we have U D H compatibility, so running the universal STR universal trailer hanger. And it also still work with a transmission drive train. So on this bike we have transmission on the rear like a road oriented crank set up front with a 42 tooth train ring. So you get this like really nice wide range. Mountain bike, road meets, road bike compatibility build, buildable. Yeah. Model. Those are our big changes. So U D H and 50 C tire. And then we also are integrating all of our cables internally now on Okay. Gravel frames as well. And that's a dumb question. As you've built a frame like that, you're committed, you gotta go inside. At that point. Yeah, to a degree. And that's kind of stuff we're working on. So like right now yeah you more or less need to pick a bar, stem and headset that worked that way. I think everybody's learning that this is a nice way to route this stuff. So we are we do also have the ability to run like regular external cables and just have 'em drop into the top of the headset as well. Okay. So you could run traditional parts as well. Okay. Yeah. So both work. So you don't have to commit only to one one style. Gotcha. And what does the customer journey look like once they discover you? Like how much interaction are you having with me as a customer prior to ordering? And then what does that timeline look like to get a bike these days? Yeah, so we have we just launched a configurator like literally last Wednesday. We've been working on it for about a year. So you can actually go on and design your pain scheme, build out your bike online and get a live quote and So you could have a very hands-off approach if you're that type of customer. But we also, our email's on there, we have a contact form right there. If you have any questions, you have any concerns, you can just email us in. Yeah. And we're happy to answer any questions. And we do everything from the configurator, which is pre-picked, more or less to full-blown custom if you want it. The configurator will give you a very guided tour of costing. And then if you want to go full custom, that's more of a conversation to have. Yeah. Gotcha. Just pick your own adventure. I feel like every time I come across a bike customizer, I lose tens of minutes of my life dreaming, changing, going backwards and forwards to try to find something wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. That was the idea is we wanted people that don't want to email in or don't have the time to do the emailing. Yeah. We wanted to give 'em a tool that they could sit out at the end of the night and play around with and get an idea about our brand and what things cost and what we're all about without having to have a direct conversation. But we're there and we're ready when they want to have that conversation. Yeah. Awesome. So remind us, how do we find you? Yeah, so Entner Frameworks is our website just tinder frameworks.com. We're on Instagram sinner frameworks. Those are our two main points of contact. And yeah, let us know if you have any questions. Perfect. Thanks for the time. Awesome, thank you. [00:49:12] Thomas | Horse Cycles: Can I get your name and brand? Thomas Callahan Horse Cycles. Thomas, how long have you been building under the Horse cycles brand? 17 years. Amazing. Yeah. What got you started to begin with? I was doing sculpture fine art, so I had a studio and was ready to commit to a nicer bike and decided to make the tooling and buy the tooling to build my own bike rather than invest in a, I think I was looking at Italian track bikes at the time. Okay. And then people just started to ask me to build them bikes, which was really great. 'cause I wasn't, it was hard to fine art wasn't super accessible, conceptual fine art wasn't super accessible to a larger audience. Yeah. Yeah. Super cool. And what's the bike that we're looking at today? Are you all custom or do you have sort of product models? Yeah, they're product models, which is really nice. It's like a really good base to work from. So even the custom stuff, usually there's a platform, all road platform, a road platform, a mountain platform. From there we go. Custom. This is a fully custom tie bike. This is tie number five. And it's a all road adventure bike. It's got the envy adventure fork on it, tapered head tube super supple Vermont Rider customer. So yeah, it's got a SCO fade from the head tube back and yeah. It's beautiful. Have you been working with Titanium for a while? I've been working with it for about five years. Just, before I put it out in the universe just to make sure that I have the confidence and the skills and was playing around with it. 'cause I wasn't sure I really wanted to go that way. But it's a fun material to grow into. You just really wanna make sure that you're doing it properly and what does a customer journey look like? If they wanted to work with you, just people reach out. Get some more info about the process, get on the website, talk about their needs and see if, it would work out. And usually around four months lead time and do a lot of full builds. But I really love connecting with people. That's one of the best parts other than being able to work with my hands is really connecting with people. To build something together. And that connection is really why I do what I do, yeah. 'cause, people are great. It's such a great journey as a customer, working with a builder to express like our collective vision for this bike. Yeah. And then receive it. I imagine that you get a lot of love back from customers. Yeah, I do. And really the people that I'm able to work with, first of all, I'm so appreciative. Because it takes a lot of effort for customers, but they're really amazing people. The industry is great 'cause, it's a BA based on physical and mental fitness, and that's usually provides a pretty positive, personal platform and, they're good solid folks. So a hundred percent. If people wanna find out more about horse cycles, where do they go? They can go to horse cycles.com, they can go to my Instagram horse cycles, gimme a phone call, reach out. I'm, I'm there and I'm not going anywhere. Perfect. Thanks for the time. Thank you. [00:52:13] Jonathan | Frameworks: Can I get your name and, and company? Yeah. I'm Jonathan from Framework Bicycles. We're based outta Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Nice. And how long have, have you guys been around? We've only been building bikes for about one year now, but my wife and I own and operate an aerospace tool and die shop Gotcha. For about 11 years. So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Why you have the capability to do these amazing and aluminum lugs that we're looking at. That to me are like sort of one of the more striking features of the bike. Thank you. Do you wanna just kind of describe how this bike is constructed in the tubes and it lugs? Yeah, so I guess we use a hybrid construction method that's not unique to us right now. Like Bastion's doing it, Atherton's doing it. Pivot just did it with that full suspension bike. I know you're a gravel guy, but we machine bill it aluminum lugs and wind filament wound carbon tubes in house that are bladder molded and cured in in mold. And then we bonded together. Essentially, the joint details are all handled by the C N C machine. Okay. So you've got sort of the, the joints of the bike, if you will, with these aluminum lugs that you're machining, and then in between carbon fiber tubes. Yep. And you were, you were mentioning that you have the ability to kind of customize the carbon fiber tools for the cust Yeah. Tubes. Yeah, the tubes. So we, we have a couple main things we can change. Everything we do is inside of a three D modeling software. So each bike is a total one-off. It's parametrically modeled. So we enter your fit data tire clearance, all that kind of stuff. The CAD model updates from there. So if I, if I needed sort of a, a taller head tube would Yep, totally. Would that translate into, yeah, we, we would look at, well the combination of top tube drop head tube, it's gonna change everything in the back of the bike from their back, right? Yep. So we'd look at your touch points for the bars, head tube lengths from there also with the four you wanna run. So that's gonna give you that dimension there on the head tube. And then, Even things like where these joints intersect one another, we can control that. So say you were a small rider and this tires getting too close to the down tube, we can actually bring that up a bit. Gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. And what kind of, if I came to you, what kind of modifications do you consider for the tubing on the carbon fiber side? If it was a super heavy rider? Super tall rider? Yeah. Wall thickness is like, we can change tube diameters too. So I would say there's two spectrums. If you're a really small rider, you don't need like a really round, big round tube. It's too much for you. Yeah, so my wife, like for example, I run a smaller down tube on that so that the shape, the size of the tube and the shape is your main driver in terms of strength. From there, what we tune is wall thickness, so how many layers of carbon we put into each tube, and then below that is the fiber orientation. Because we're C N C, winding them, we can whine for torsional strength, bending, stiffness, anywhere in that spectrum to give the different compliance in the frame where you need it. Since it's a somewhat novel approach to frame construction. Yeah. How do you describe to customers or would be customers, what the ride quality might feel like on this bike? It's hard. So we do have some bikes out for review with media outlets right now, but they're custom bikes that are built for those people. Yeah. So they, they'll ride it, but it's like, if I made you a bike for your fitting, it's gonna be a bit different. So what I would describe it as is kind of picking the best of all worlds. You get some damping from the way the joints go together. You still have the kind of lightness and strength of carbon fiber, but with none of the chatter or buzz or like squeak in the bottom bracket. 'cause everywhere we're interfacing metal parts, it's going to a metal part on our bike. Okay. So really stiff bottom bracket shelf. And it they ride really quietly. Yeah. Someone else had mentioned that. You know, this type of joint juncture up here does add a lot of rigidity to how the stays come into the tube here. Like this detail here. Yeah. Yeah. So what we do to try to get some of that back is, I'm a big proponent of top tube drop. Like basically the, the stick out of your seat tube, your ride perception is gonna be way more on how your saddle's moving back and forth with frame flex than anything happening in the frame. So that's why people are playing with things like the drop stays. To try to get that to bend in like an SS shape a little bit. Yeah. But if you just make this cantilevered bar longer, you're gonna get way more comfort from that. Got it. That's basically the easiest way to do it. What does the customer journey look like to discover you and how do they find you? And then what does it look like from there If you wanna purchase the bike? Yeah. 'cause we're super active on Instagram. That's basically how most people have found us. I'm big on just sharing process stuff while I'm in the shop. People either love it or at least they'll like check it out quickly and come back like a month from then. So I'm on stories all the time showing how we machine stuff, how we make the equipment that makes the bikes. So pretty much right now we're trying to get set up with a couple shops, but we're direct to consumer. Yeah. So it's reach out to us. I'll email you back. We typically recommend that if you're not very confident about your fit, like where your touch points are on the frame that you work with the fitter local to you. Yeah. Send us that detail. The discussion from there is what type of bike are you looking for? Road bike, gravel bike in that spectrum. Mountain bike. So your touch points and the style of bike you want kind of dictate the geometry we go to from there and then it's ticket deposit and we ship you a bike in like four to eight weeks. Super cool. Tell me the website and Instagram handle framework bicycles.com and on Instagram where framework bikes. Awesome. Thanks. [00:57:29] Zack | Bosch: Can I get your name and the brand you represent? Sure. Zach Kreel and Vapor Propulsion Labs. We do Bosch, pinion, supernova, and three by three hubs. Right on. So Bosch has been making electric bicycle motors for how long? Gen One came out in Europe in 2010. Started working with 'em in 2009 over a 18 month period of time to, to work on that project. Gotcha. Yeah. What's been curious to me is obviously, like many of us are aware of the bigger brands doing e-bikes in their lineup, but over the last few years I've started to see builders like Jeremy CIP build with your product. So building, a custom bike effectively. Yeah. And accommodating the Bausch motor in the bottom of it. How does that come to be and what kind of trends do you see in that area? Yeah, so we, we are definitely seeing the custom handmade guy come and express interest. A lot of times there is this misconception that this is way complicated and in general you're replacing the BB with a motor node that can be welded in just like a BB shell can and you're accommodating that. And we try to cut the red tape for the handmade guys to be able to make sure, or to reassure them. That this is pretty easy. So yeah, when you see from an engineering standpoint, from a bill of material of the electric standpoint, all that stuff, we hold their hand to to get them to make the first one, and then they're ready to roll. Yeah. When you see the raw frames that they're producing, it's obvious oh, you can just bolt the engine there on the bottom, and that part's clear. But as you look at what's required to kind of function and power and control the motor, There's more to it than that. So what are the other components of the system that they need to be thinking about as they're building these bikes? Well, a lot of times, you'll think about the end consumer and you'll say, okay, is this gonna be, for somebody that is running a cargo bike, if it's a, if it's a touring, a gravel rig, if it's a, if's a's pavement bike, if it's a car, alternative bike, those particular frame builders will potentially. Alter the gauge of their tubing. Potentially. It depends on how much load is on it, but that end customer is driving where these will go. And from our standpoint the Bosch system is super robust. It's tested all the way to E M T V standards now and that typically works for everything that everybody in this building is gonna make. What kind of controls are necessary to connect to the motor? So the motor, the botch system is a, it's a closed system. So there's basically, the hardest system is the motor connected to the battery, and then there's the display. The motor has the brains inside there. It measures the human input at a thousand times a second, roughly. So super fast. And then it it connects to the battery. There's a communication between battery and motor, and then there's also communication to the. To the head unit or your smartphone, all of that stuff is, its ecosystem and they're all required to have on the bike itself. And is it a pedal assist system? So it's just adding wattage to my It is, yeah. Personal output. So it measures your input super super accurately. And then you level, you choose the level of assistance eco up to turbo and eco's, like 50% of your input turbo is up to 400% of your input. Gotcha. And I see behind us. It's not only a tandem, it's a triple. Is that right? Yes, that is right. So that's a, that's our concept bike. My daughter's the one who's gonna be in the middle there. So lucky her. That particular rig is cool because the middle stoker, that section of the frame can be removed and then it can turn into a tandem. That's incredible. We brought that one here for frame builders to see as like the most complicated bike that they could ever imagine. And then give them the perspective of okay, a single is super simple compared to that. Yeah. And is there's just one, is there just one Bausch engine in that bike? Yep. Okay. Yeah. And it's a, that's a dual battery. There's a three by three internal gear hub in the back with e shift. So electronic shifting, there's a Bluetooth wireless controller to the ba

On today's episode of THE ROCK FIGHT Colin & Justin crack open a mailbag of listener rock fights and run through a slate of outdoor headlines including Moots new 750d gravel bike, the abomination that is Puffin Drinkwear and potentially the last ever ROCK FIGHT trip to Pickleball Corner.Have a question or comment for a future mailbag episode? Send it to myrockfight@gmail.com or send a message on Instagram or Threads.Subscribe to Adventure Journal to get more Justin Housman in your life.Support our sponsors!Head over to Gear Trade to turn your unused gear and apparel into cash money or to pick up that piece of gear you need for your next adventure! Check out Long Weekend Coffee for the best cup of coffee for your next adventure. Be sure to enter promo code 'rock10' at checkout to receive 10% off of your first order. Long Weekend Coffee...more weekend, please. Thanks for listening! THE ROCK FIGHT is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.

This week's Geek Warning episode sees James and Dave hanging out in a hotel room together with plenty to talk about and not enough sleep to do it professionally.The MADE show is on the horizon, and James and Dave touch on some of the things they expect to see. There's a good conversation about the restraints that modern road design is forcing on consumers. And of course, much more.Enjoy!Timestamps:2:35 – Driven raising equity.4:15 – Moots teases a new wheel size.9:48 – Trek's Madone gets a slightly cheaper choice.16:13 – New things from Wolf Tooth.20:49 – Leap Components doing cool things and wobbly derailleur pivots.25:45 – Still thinking about the woes of certain internally cabled bikes, proprietary cockpits, and fit limitations.34:43 – James goes on an AliExpress shopping spree.41:59 - A PSA to keep those freehub internals fresh. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“Do not say in your heart, after Yahweh your God has thrust them out before you, ‘It is because of my righteousness that Yahweh has brought me in to possess this land,' whereas it is because of the wickedness of these nations that Yahweh is driving them out before you. Not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart are you going in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations Yahweh your God is driving them out from before you, and that he may confirm the word that Yahweh swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Know, therefore, that Yahweh your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stubborn people.” - Deuteronomy 9:4-6   This Episode's Links: (All timestamps offset by 24-seconds) 00:00 – Deuteronomy 9 05:37 – Thoughts on the Reading 17:55 – Anti-Feminism RE: Virginity, Birth Control, Happiness in Marriage, and Divorce – investmentflow, Instagram 33:06 - United Methodists have lost one-fifth of their congregations as the denomination continues theological drift to the bottom of the sea – John Knox, NTB 41:55 - Christians Err if They Give Up on America – D.G. Hart, WSJ 53:41 - The Myth of “Liberal, Secular America” – Joseph Rigney and Glenn A Moots, American Reformer --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/garrett-ashley-mullet/message

Liberty Counsel's classwide injunction stopped the Department of Defense from violating the rights of the Marines. Constitutional expert, lawyer, author, pastor, and founder of Liberty Counsel Mat Staver discusses the important topics of the day with co-hosts and guests that impact life, liberty, and family. To stay informed and get involved -- visit LC.org

Jamborees and Moots, Religious Symposiums...and Emergency Response. News Stories 1st Africa Rover Moot, Kenya 2023 Interreligious Symposium Unites Scouting in the Central African Republic Scouts Mobilise to Support Cyclone Freddy Emergency Response How Anna realised that happiness can be found even in the darkest of times 10,000+ Scouts Gather for 32nd Asia-Pacific and 11th National Scout Jamboree in Bangladesh Two hospitalised as scout group caught out by Storm Noa in Wicklow Mountains Boy Scouts' record $2.46 bln sex abuse settlement upheld by judge 10th Welland Scouts pound the pavement to help neighbours Subscribe Follow Us and Subscribe Support Hit the Tip Jar Send Feedback Email Us | Leave Us a Voice Message | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram| Discord | Leave Us a Review Music Unexpected Hoedown in Bagging Area, by Doctor Turtle

* Email from Matthew: Fourth edition political situation in Haven? * Email from Nick: Stephen King recommendation. * Story about using Giftbringer. * Note: The Velocity spell is not in a first edition book. It was created by Morgan Weeks. * Trollmoots of the Delaris Mountains * Quiet, serene, isolated. * Location of the monastery where Elianar Messias allegedly found the Books of Harrow. * Also the area where the Fellowship of Night (Episode 109) are based. * Rockhorn moot: Mainly in the eastern Delaris peaks. * Strong association with obsidimen, strong feelings about the Triumph and Ayodhya. * Parallel to the Stoneclaws in their cultural cross-pollination. * Potential conflict with the Fellowship of Night due to their experimentation on a dead Liferock. * Moot most directly related to the Triumph and Ayodhya plot thread in the post-Prelude to War era. * Notable members of the Rockhorn moot and Greenstone Liferock * Skyseeker moot: Furthest west, closest to Vivane * Broadly neutral relationship with the Therans * Relationship with Messias and the Books of Harrow monastery * Cursed to “always seek what they cannot find.” * Internal debate about their relationship with Thera. * Working with the Fellowship of Night to try and break the curse. * Notable members of the Skyseeker moot and Fellowship of Night. * The Harrow monastery as a notable legendary site that would draw characters to the area. * Ideas about the post-Second War situation for the Delaris moots. * Continued praise for the variety and diversity that break up the highland troll monoculture.   Find and Follow: Email: edsgpodcast@gmail.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeoifzUuBjez9V6wnvzom3g Twitter: @EDSGPodcast Josh on Twitter: @LoreMerchant Get product information, developer blogs, and more at www.fasagames.com FASA Games on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fasagamesinc FASA Games Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/uuVwS9u Earthdawn West Marches: https://discord.gg/hhHDtXW

People love to talk about the Constitution - that's why we have a podcast. Sometimes, however, the conventional wisdom is quite unwise, leading to deeply unfortunate national narratives.  Today we address questions such as whether the Constitution was foisted upon an unwitting nation, with the proceedings kept secret for decades.  This is perhaps an old question, but in the news recently, we read of state public school curricula wherein objection is raised to the notion that the Declaration and Constitution are “remarkable.”  So it matters that we understand all these questions - and their answers.  We offer some.  Oh, and speaking of “in the news,” Moore v. Harper is back in the headlines, with questions of whether it will be rendered moot hanging in the air, to the alarm of many.  Professor Amar has a nuanced take on that.

* Live episode of the EDSG at FreedoniaCon on February 19! * Central Twilight Peaks * Highest slopes and roughest terrain of the range. * Skytoucher Mountain, legendary home of the first trollmoot. * Destination of the Behemoth in the Battle of Sky Point * Ruins of Ustrect * Twilight Tower, Order of Silver Twilight * Blackheart Liferock * Ironmonger Moot – Northern portion of the central Twilight Peaks. * Founded after the Scourge. * Refugees and descendants of trolls from Ustrect. * Strongly against the idea of reclaiming Ustrect or delving into its ruins. * Raisers of Ustrect, living legend cult devoted to resurrecting the lost troll kingdom. * Traditional Earthdawn story hooks with the Horror Ago'astia infiltrating the cult * Moot tries to stay out of Crystal Raider politics * Loose agreement with the Thundersky moot about the Grey Forest * Moot size and raiding territory. * Thundersky Moot – Descended from the Skytoucher Moot, led by an escaped slave. * Once the richest, most powerful moot. * Fallen on hard times because of the Theran assault, many captured. * Most strongly anti-Theran moot. * In addition to raiding, also mine and trade. Do not raid other moots. * Hopes to ally with the other moots to strike back at Thera (prior to Second War). * Broken Chains – cult dedicated to Lochost and the end of slavery in all forms. * Trade ore to Ironmongers. * Strong tactical fighters and raiders, best navigators, and sailors in the Twilight Peaks. * Most stereotypical trollmoot. * Moot size and raiding territory. Find and Follow: Email: edsgpodcast@gmail.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeoifzUuBjez9V6wnvzom3g Twitter: @EDSGPodcast Josh on Twitter: @LoreMerchant Get product information, developer blogs, and more at www.fasagames.com FASA Games on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fasagamesinc FASA Games Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/uuVwS9u Earthdawn West Marches: https://discord.gg/hhHDtXW

* More Crystal Raiders * Geographic overview of the Eastern Twilight Peaks * Mount An'grak * Stoneclaw Moot * Adopted several dwarf clans during the Scourge; mining companies that worked the mountains. * Strongest kaers of all the trollmoots. * Seen as best option for Throal to establish initial diplomatic relations. * Stoneclaw chief: Kerththale Farseer Stoneclaws * Progressive and forward thinking. * Josh muses on present-day status and development of the Stoneclaws. * Swiftwind Moot * Most talented shipwrights and crystalsmiths. * Legend says one of their founders brought the secrets of the drakkars. * Partly responsible for triggering the Orichalcum Wars. * Near the Gray Forest, main source of lumber and True Wood in the Twilight Peaks. * Conflict with the Ironmonger and Thundersky moots over the forest. * Chief Ner'ral Skybolt Swiftwind * Very young, unmarried, hot-headed but willing to listen to advisors. * Musing on the present-day status of the Swiftwind moot. * Ulig Stoneshaper: Finest crystalsmith in the moot. Spends lots of time around Mount An'grak. * Dreams of a crystal that would serve as the foundation of her masterwork (and related story hooks). * Sk'lag Prowjumper: Master shipwright. * Either could serve as highly desired mentors for smiths or enchanters interested in airships. * Trollmoots as allies or antagonists. Find and Follow: Email: edsgpodcast@gmail.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeoifzUuBjez9V6wnvzom3g Twitter: @EDSGPodcast Josh on Twitter: @LoreMerchant Get product information, developer blogs, and more at www.fasagames.com FASA Games on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fasagamesinc FASA Games Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/uuVwS9u Earthdawn West Marches: https://discord.gg/hhHDtXW

* Happy New Year! * Email from Brendan: Karma as a payment for spirit services? * Horrors using Karma? * Horror knowledge of organizations, nations, and politics of Barsaive? * Horror knowledge and opinions on Horror Stalkers? * Email from Nicholas: FreedoniaCon in 2023? (Yes, February 17-19) * Status of Legends of Earthdawn podcast? * T'skrang racial mount for Cavalryman? * Limits of permanent threads? * Email from Brian: Idea about pacing, advancement, and thread items. * Revisiting highland troll culture. * While there are many common cultural traits among highland trolls, there is some variety among the moots as well. * Moots, Clans, and line marriage. * The origins of the cultural tradition of raiding and strength. * Troll honor: personal, clan, and racial. * Praise for the Crystal Raiders book. Find and Follow: Email: edsgpodcast@gmail.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeoifzUuBjez9V6wnvzom3g Twitter: @EDSGPodcast Josh on Twitter: @LoreMerchant Dan on Twitter: @boice_voice Get product information, developer blogs, and more at www.fasagames.com FASA Games on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fasagamesinc FASA Games Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/uuVwS9u Earthdawn Guild Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/earthdawnguild Earthdawn West Marches: https://discord.gg/hhHDtXW

BikeRadar and Cycling Plus senior technical editor Warren Rossiter and senior tech writer Simon von Bromley talk to Jon Cariveau, brand manager at Moots.In this episode of BikeRadar's road (and gravel) bike frame materials series, we discover everything worth knowing about titanium. We talk about how a titanium bike frame is manufactured, discuss how it differs from other metal commonly used to make bike frames, and find out what titanium can offer a rider. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Glenn Moots' address at the Miami National Conservatism Conference on September 12, 2022.

In this episode, Dr. Glenn Moots and I discuss several related aspects of Christianity and politics. We dive into Moots's history in the church and academy while exploring his understanding of Christian Reconstructionism. We get into the topic of Christian Nationalism and a state church. We dig into the magisterial protestant perspective on Christianity and politics and what it has to offer us today. What is the relationship of the church and state? What would America look like if Christian Nationalists had their way? What place would Baptists have in a magisterial Protestant nation? Why is choosing between religious pluralism and establishment a false dilemma?Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/chasedavis“How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Christian Nationalism” - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-utekNec80&feature=emb_titleGlenn Moots on Althusius - https://lawliberty.org/classic/rereading-politica-in-the-post-liberal-moment/“Politics Reformed” - https://amzn.to/3FKBZZf“Justifying Revolution: Law, Virtue, and Violence in the American War of Independence” - https://amzn.to/3fxS0qXLaw and Liberty - Moots - https://lawliberty.org/author/glenn-moots/Support the showSign up for the Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/chasedavisFollow Full Proof Theology on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/fullprooftheology/Follow Full Proof Theology on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fullprooftheology/

In episode 1 of Blasstal, Katie introduces Lucy to the vegetable at the heart of Hop-tu-Naa traditions of the Isle of Man. They explore the island's folklore with poet and folklore expert Annie Kissack, attend a Hop-tu-Naa celebration at Cregneash, carve their own moots, and finally head out Hop-tu-Naa-ing around Peel. Blasstal is a podcast series by Lecker about food and folklore on the Isle of Man, supported by Culture Vannin. Hosted and produced by Lucy Dearlove and Katie Callin Podcast theme music by Mera Royle Podcast artwork by Vicky Webb With thanks to all contributors and others who made the series possible! Music credits: Manx Folk Dance Music - Guilley Hesheree (The Ploughboy) Manx Folk Dance Music - Eunyssagh Vona Manx Folk Dance Music - Hop-tu-Naa https://culturevannin.bandcamp.com/album/daunseyn-theayagh-vannin-manx-folk-dance-music  ‘Daunseyn Theayagh Vannin: Manx Folk Dance Music' Manx trad. Manx Folk Dance Society, 1976. Caarjyn Cooidjagh - Manannan Beg Ballad Caarjyn Cooidjagh - Mannin veg veen With thanks to Annie Kissack Follow Lecker on Twitter and Instagram. Read more about Blasstal and see some behind the scenes photos at leckerpodcast.com

State-owned electricity utility Eskom has confirmed the award of contracts with a combined value of R4.4-billion to Hyosung Heavy Industries, of South Korea, and the Pinggao Group, of China, for battery energy storage system (BESS) projects that will be delivered across several sites by the end of June next year. The contracts cover the lion's share of the individual projects included as part of Phase 1 of a two-phase roll-out being funded by the World Bank, the African Development Bank, the New Development Bank and the Clean Technology Fund. Phase 1 involves the installation of some 199 MW/833 MWh of BESS capacity across eight Eskom Distribution substation sites in four provinces. It also includes 2 MW of solar photovoltaic (PV) capacity. Eskom will seek to implement both phases, involving 343 MW/1 440 MWh of BESS and 60 MW of solar PV, by December 2024. It has also signalled that the initiative forms part of a larger 500 MW BESS plan, which has been included in the package of interventions unveiled by President Cyril Ramaphosa on July 25 to tackle load-shedding. The projects to be implemented by Hyosung and Pinggao will be used primarily for peak shaving purposes for four hours a day for at least 250 days of the year. However, they will also provide some ancillary services and local network support. It is understood that Pinggao has been awarded contracts for the 80 MW/320 MWh Skaapvlei, 9.5 MW/45 MWh Paleisheuwel and 5 MW/30 MWh Graafwater projects, in the Western Cape, while Hyosung has been awarded the 40 MW/160 MWh Pongola and the 8 MW/32 MWh Elandskop projects, in KwaZulu-Natal, as well as the 20 MW/100 MWh Hex project, in the Western Cape. Hyosung Heavy and Pinggao have been contracted to design, supply and install the BESS systems and to provide operating and maintenance support for five years. The utility has decided to re-tender the 35 MW/140 MWh Melkhout project, in the Eastern Cape, as well as the 1.54 MW/6.16 MWh Rietfontein project in the Northern Cape, which will include 2 MW of solar photovoltaic capacity. Eskom tells Engineering News that the combined value of the contracts placed with Hyosung and Pinggao is R4.4-billion "roughly split in half". The second phase will cost an estimated R6-billion. The utility also did not indicate when it expected to award the Phase 2 contracts, which cover two sites in the Western and Northern Cape provinces apiece and will comprise 144 MW/616 MWh of BESS capacity and 58 MW of solar PV. “Through the BESS project, Eskom aspires to diversify the existing generation energy mix by pursuing a low-carbon future to reduce the impact on the environment,” coal and clean technology GM Velaphi Ntuli says, indicating that energy storage in large quantities will be required to incorporate energy from renewable sources. “The 1 440 MWh distributed BESS with 60 MW solar PV represents a giant leap forward in achieving this aspiration, as it will be one of the largest BESS projects to be developed and implemented in South Africa.” CEO André de Ruyter linked the BESS roll-out to Eskom's ‘Just Energy Transition' strategy and indicated that the utility aimed to support the development of local industry. A preliminary BESS localisation and industrialisation study has been conducted and Eskom will continue to “engage stakeholders to ensure that maximum benefits are derived from all the project sites”.

This is a fun one. Moots guests on the show again and we talk about replacement members, especially singers and how that can be a good thing and how there is too much gatekeeping going on with original lineups and music in general. It's a great hill and we dive deep on this one. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/eric-stangeland/support

President Cyril Ramaphosa unveiled several far-reaching interventions – including a doubling in the allocation for the next renewables procurement round, the scrapping of the 100 MW licence-exemption threshold for distributed generators and a proposal of a feed-in tariff for self-generating households and businesses – as part of a much-anticipated action plan for ending load-shedding. While refraining from declaring the “national crisis” a state of disaster as sought by some opposition parties, the President also announced that “special legislation” would be placed before Parliament to address remaining legal and regulatory obstacles to the urgent introduction of new generation capacity. "We will in the meantime waive or streamline certain regulatory requirements where it is possible to do so within existing legislation. "This includes reducing the regulatory requirements for solar projects in areas of low and medium environmental sensitivity. It also means Eskom can expand power lines and substations without needing to get environmental authorisation in areas of low and medium sensitivity and within the strategic electricity corridors. "We are also establishing a single point of entry for all energy project applications, to ensure coordination of approval processes across government," Ramaphosa announced. TWO-PRONGED PLAN The overall plan is two-pronged, with the first aimed at arresting Eskom's operational instability, as reflected in the precipitous decline in the coal fleet's energy availability factor to below 60%, and the second designed to introduce new generation capacity to the grid as quickly as possible so as to close an estimated supply shortfall of about 6 000 MW. Without the additional capacity, Eskom says it lacks the “headroom” required to carry out much-needed maintenance across its 81-unit coal fleet that is made up of both aged and neglected coal plants and two new stations, Medupi and Kusile, which are not only years behind schedule and billions over budget but include defects that require remedying. Much of the innovation in the plan, which Ramaphosa canvassed widely before announcing it on Monday night, rests on the second pillar of speedily injecting additional capacity through the following interventions: A doubling of the allocation for Bid Window Six (BW6) of the Renewable Energy Independent Power Producer Procurement Programme (REIPPPP), the bid submission date for which is in August, from 2 600 MW to 5 200 MW; Lifting altogether the 100 MW licence-exemption cap on distributed generation plant being developed by miners and heavy industry. The reform, which was announced in June last year, had already stimulated 80 confirmed private sector projects with a combined capacity of over 6 000 MW; Confirmation that the Independent Power Producer Office and the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition would announce a “pragmatic approach” to the local-content requirements that were currently impeding financial close for delayed projects procured under BW 5 of the REIPPPP; The leasing of more grid-ready land by Eskom to facilitate further private projects in addition to the 1 800 MW private distributed investment expected following the first leasing round; The issuance of a request for proposals for battery storage by September this year, and a further request for gas power thereafter; and The Gazetting by Mineral Resources and Energy Gwede Mantashe of a determination for the remaining allocations in the Integrated Resource Plan (IRP) of 2019, which would facilitate the opening of further bid windows on an expedited basis. The President also announced that surplus capacity available from existing renewables independent power producers (IPPs) would be mopped up and Eskom would also be allowed to make a standard offer to buy electricity, for a period of two to three years, from those enterprises, mines, paper mills and shopping centres that have surplus electricity available to sell into the grid. Possib...

In 1972, the old / new Albuquerque Dukes baseball team needed a logo.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The HCMC Department of Transport has proposed that a 33-kilometer section of the HCMC-Can Tho express railway in HCMC should have elevated tracks to facilitate the project's execution.

Season 6 premier! Today on to kick off the new season we discuss the differences between covens, circles, moots, tribes, clans and other gatherings of witches! Links for the Bitchy Witchys book series: 101 Oil Blends for Spells and Rituals: https://amzn.to/32mgwkw 101 Herbs for Your Magick Practice: https://amzn.to/3tvpIii 101 Divination Methods: https://amzn.to/3sseY3c 101 Tips for New Witches: https://amzn.to/3e9VpY8 ------------------- Buy us a coffee! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/BitchyWitchys Watch us, like and subscribe on YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcFYaQtwUdla6dC2xI0ULpA Support our PATREON@ https://www.patreon.com/bitchywitchys Visit our WEBSITE @ https://Bitchywitchys.com Follow us on INSTAGRAM- @bitchywitchyspodcast (https://www.instagram.com/bitchywitchyspodcast) Listen and follow us on APPLE PODCAST - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bitchy-witchys/id1501706938 EMAIL us @ talktothebwitchys@gmail.com ------------------- Hestia https://instagram.com/hestiasherbiary?utm_medium=copy_link Jason https://instagram.com/truewitchcraftllc?utm_medium=copy_link Bela https://instagram.com/belalunas_broom_closet?utm_medium=copy_link Mountain Gypsy https://instagram.com/wildsoulslifecoach?utm_medium=copy_link --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/bitchywitchys/support

Hello everyone,   Welcome back to another episode of Werewolf: The Podcast. This episode Jim and I discuss Moots, how they are run, why they are run, and the reasons to hold one. We hope you enjoy! Please consider becoming our Patron by going to https://www.patreon.com/werewolfthepodcast

On today's show I talk with Mark Moots and we discuss Metal Injection's 50 albums that turned 30 this year. This was a fun episode because Mark was a record store manager, he had gone to Foundations Forum and he had his first real Metal band in 1992. Some of the things we talk about... -The landscape and diversity of the music scene in 1992 -Who's "Black Album" was the best -Does Vulgar Display of Power still hold up today? -What albums do we want to revisit after viewing the list -What albums do we like now that we didn't back then And so much more... Thanks to Mark for stopping by the show and talking about such an important year in Metal. You can find more about him and his latest band at https://www.facebook.com/WeightOfTheTide --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/eric-stangeland/support

McConnell Scholar and assistant podcast producer Will Randolph is joined by Dr. Glenn Moots, Professor of Political Science and Philosophy at Northwood University, to discuss the significance of the Protestant Reformation. The two explore the history of the Reformation, the different groups and strands of thought that it produced, and how the ideas of the Reformation impacted American order. Corresponding Reading  Chapter 7, pp. 221-258 of Russell Kirk, The Roots of American Order Important Links  Download the corresponding reading guide to The Roots of American Order here Learn more about The Roots of American Order at https://louisville.edu/mcconnellcenter/programs-events/bic Glenn Moots, Politics Reformed and Justifying Revolution Subscribe to our newsletter and receive McConnell Center updates directly in your mailbox Please share any thoughts, questions, comments, or concerns with us via email at connor.tracy@louisville.edu. This podcast is a production of the McConnell Center at the University of Louisville. For more information, including upcoming events, please visit us online at mcconnellcenter.org or on social media at:  Facebook: @mcconnellcenter  Instagram: @ulmcenter  Twitter: @ULmCenter Contributors  Host: Will Randolph, McConnell Scholar Guest: Dr. Glenn Moots, Producers and Editors: Connor Tracy, McConnell Center SBS Coordinator & Will Randolph, McConnell Scholar 

@schedulicity and @hairdustry presents Your Day Off podcast- Video Podcast now available on your @spotify app Whats the greatest gift you've ever received? Trevor Moots @tailorfade road warrior and WAHL Creative Team,felt right at home when he entered a hair school for the first time. You won't believe the story of how a stranger helped Trevor out so he could start hair school. You have to hear it! That feeling when some one believe in you, is a confidence builder that gets repaid with work ethic. #fallinlovewiththehairindustry --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/hairdustry/support

En el capítulo 79 de Magnesia platicamos con Mariana Espinosa y Saul Rodriguez, escaladores y fundadores de Moot Mundo, Sobre la historia de como se fundó y creció su propia marca de accesorias para actividades outdoor. Hablamos sobre los valores y filosofía de Moots, los retos que han enfrentado, y cómo se han enriquecido con aprendizajes dentro y fuera del muro. Platicamos sobre su vida escaladora, y sus objetivos futuros como emprendedores. Encuentra a Mariana y Saul en instagram como: @marianaespinv @jsaulrg. Sigue a Moots Mundo en Instagram: @moots.mundo A Magnesia Podcast lo Patrocina: Puffin Rock: La cerveza con actitud aventurera Atman Adventure Wear Moots Mundo Síguenos en Instagram: @magnesiapodcast Escríbenos a magnesiapodcast@gmail.com para recomendarnos temas e invitados.

Sofía Vargas y Antonio Ochoa, participantes en distintos Moots representando a la Universidad Panamericana Campus Guadalajara nos platican sobre sus experiencias y desarrollo en competencias de derecho,

This was a fun one. I've known Mark forever and we got to talk about a lot stuff musically, as well as important issues like mental health. in this episode - kiss is the gateway band - How Rush's subdivisions helped with anxiety - Touring Europe with December -Weight of the Tide And so much more... Mark was gracious enough to give us a Weight of the Tide track called, "Years Like Days" Find Weight of the Tide anywhere you consume social media and music. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/eric-stangeland/support

We are joined this episode by Megan Phyper, a 3L law student at Osgoode Hall Law School. Megan and Felicity were teammates on the Wilson Moot this year and the two of them discuss all things moot-related. Richard was their coach. Richard and Megan bond because they are both shy.   Links: WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/   Music Attribution: What's Love Got to Do With It by Tina Turner Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It

Being a freelancer comes with a base uncertainty, as gigs come and go with the wind. Sometimes there will be weeks (or even longer) where no work is appearing, causing a lot of self doubt and worry. This week, Guy and Moots discuss what to do when you're in a dry spell of work, how to stay occupied, and to not doubt yourself that work will come. As always, if you work hard and people like working with you, jobs will come!

Food is such a crucial part of our day, and that doesn't change once you're on set. This week Moots and Guy take part in some snack talk: discussing what food they like to eat and have at crafty, how to stay healthy during the day, as well as the ups and downs of catering. So be sure to have a bite to eat while you listen!

Jon Cariveau is the head of marketing for Moots, the Steamboat Springs, Colorado based bike brand known for hand building premium, titanium bikes. Jon is a passionate rider and racer, and has been with the brand for 24 years, starting in the shop when Moots had less than half a dozen employees. Moots is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year so we look back at some of the brand's unique bike designs and product decisions over the years, starting with the YBB soft tail mountain bike released in the 1980s. We also ask: What are the biggest advantages of a titanium mountain bike frame? What are the disadvantages or tradeoffs? In 2010 Moots featured a "96er" in the lineup. Are you surprised to see mixed wheel bikes making a bit of a comeback today? As a company that is building bikes domestically, how has Moots been dealing with supply chain disruptions due to Covid? How does the company's location in Steamboat Springs, Colorado influence the products and design? What does Moots have in store for the next decade? What will we be talking about when Moots celebrates its 50th anniversary? To learn more about Moots, visit moots.com. --Keep up with the latest in mountain biking at Singletracks.com and on Instagram @singletracks --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/singletracks/support

In this interview with award winning cameraman Carey Moots, he tells us a story filled with intrigue and luck coupled with consistent dedication and hard work. Learn more about the life and adventures of Carey Moots of Moots Productions, and what made his business launch into a success story.

A lot of things can change over a year, and 2020 has been nothing but proof of that. As the year comes to a close, Moots and Guy look back on some of their favorite gigs and some of the lessons they learned along the way. Plus, they discuss what are their hopes for 2021. Thank you all for tuning in to Switch to Channel 2 in 2020, we can't wait to bring you new episodes next year!

Everyone has trouble balancing work and their personal lives, but when you're a freelancer working 12+ hours a day with a unknown schedule, it gets even harder. In this episode, Guy and Moots discuss how they balance those two aspects of their lives and the difference in the type of gigs they have determine their schedules.

Making connections and networking is such a crucial part of the entertainment world, as 9 times out of 10 they're the ones that get you the next gig. In this episode, Guy and Moots discuss how to make those first connections when you're on set and who are the people to make sure they know who you are.

Our host Porter is with Producer Joey and Danny to discuss Werewolf: The Apocalypse. In this episode we discuss the Moot! The Garou rite/ ritual that celebrates and feeds sept totems and discusses business of the garou nation, sometimes there are even fights.Come along and revel with us!Our recommendations this week:Moon Called, The Mercy Thompson series:https://amzn.to/2TqOkbSHemlock Grove, Netflix Original:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2309295/The music is "The battle of 1066" by Patrick Patrikios.As always you can reach us at:Website: http://www.rageacrosspodcast.comJoin the Forums to get the Code for our discord and come chat with us!Email: rageacrosspodcast@gmail.comTwitter:@rageacrossFacebook: RageAcrosstheInternetPodcast

Every so often, humanity produces a Rock God so foundationally sound, so structurally flawless, so heavily metal, that they quake the very ground upon which they walk. Mark Moots, arguably the most metal human being ever to be birthed from the Reno area, is that Rock God.

Musim hujan sudah tiba. Masa-masa paling menyebalkan bagi cyclist akhirnya datang. Tapi bukan berarti gowes harus berhenti. Pada podcast Main Sepeda episode 18 ini duo Azrul Ananda dan Johnny Ray akan mengulas apa saja yang harus disiapkan ketika gowes hujan-hujan. Dulu, ketika musim hujan tiba, Azrul Ananda selalu menyiapkan "beater bike". Sepeda yang dipakai untuk menghadapi cuaca buruk, untuk hancur-hancuran. Biasanya sepeda aluminium, atau titanium Moots. Kini sepeda gravel sangat cocok untuk hujan. Sebab bisa dipasangi spakbor. Keduanya juga akan membahas kebutuhan lain yang wajib dipersiapkan saat musim hujan. Mulai urusan ban hingga terkait apparel. Seperti rain jacket, penutup sepatu, topi, kacamata photochromic, dan helm. Mereka juga akan membagikan tips cara cepat mengeringkan sepatu basah. Aza, sapaan akrab Azrul Ananda dan Johnny Ray juga berbagi tips lainnya. Termasuk soal pemilihan rute serta indoor training. Indoor training bisa menjadi opsi agar tetap gowes saat musim hujan. Apalagi ada banyak pilihan smart trainer atau aplikasi yang membuat gowes di rumah lebih efektif dan fun. Ada banyak hal menarik lainnya yang akan dibagikan Aza dan Johnny Ray di Podcast Main Sepeda episode 18. Premiere podcast-nya pada Rabu, 14 Oktober 2020, tepat pukul 16.00 WIB. Hanya di kanal YouTube dan Spotify Mainsepeda. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/mainsepeda/support

In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, organizations like the Tolkien Society and Signum University have held their annual gatherings (Oxonmoot and Mythmoot) online in 2020. Alan and Shawn begin the new season by interviewing some of the people who made those moots possible — including Tolkien Society chair Shaun Gunner, Signum University President Corey Olsen, and more — to learn about the challenges and advantages of bringing these events into the digital space, glimpse the changing face of Tolkien fandom, and remember the importance of fellowship in difficult times.

Sharing current events with a psychic perspective, we often feature special guests stopping by to have a cup of Joe, good conversation, and talk about their unique gifts with us. From influential and inspiring writers and prominent members of the psychic community, we cultivate a lively discussion from all walks of life. Aeson Knight is a master psychic of more than 22 years, a certified clairvoyant, and a certified life coach who advises a diverse clientele from average housewives to government officials, all around the world. Joseph “Techy Joe” Arrington is a Technologist with a degree in Information Systems and Operations Management who provides assistance and support to a variety of individuals and companies, focusing on developing the right options Our guest Donna Donovan Appalachian Pagan Ministry was founded in April of 2015, by Rev Donna Donovan. APM currently works on-site monthly with pagan inmates in 23 facilities (including Death Row) in 3 states, West Virginia, Arizona, and Ohio. Appalachian Pagan Ministry goes in monthly and holds Moots with the Heathen inmates, services with the Wiccan and general pagan inmates, services with the Satanist and Luciferian inmates, as well as offering several correspondence courses to Kindreds and Covens in facilities around the nation. Appalachian Pagan Ministry also facilitates various rituals on-site for the facilities they serve in person, holds memorials for those inmates who have passed, and helps with resources and such upon release. We look forward to your calls, questions, stories, and most of all speaking to you again and again! Talk to you soon! The Psychic Coffee Team For more information and to get in touch with Aeson or Joe please use the links below. To Keep Up with Our Hosts and For More Information Visit: http://aesonknight.com/ http://pcspnetwork.com/ http://mysticpcwv.com/ Support the PCSP Network: https://www.patreon.com/PsychicCoffee... --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/pcspnetwork/support

The One Take Show is honored to host Mr. Prakshal Jain. Prakshal is an Associate at Trilegal. In this episode, He shares his experience with Law School; His initial run with Moots and Debates; His strategies and preparation for Moots; His experience with FDI Moot 2017 and his Winning Strategy; His tips on becoming a better speaker and a better Mooter in general; His take on the efficacy of Moots in practical life.

The desire to amplify the voices of the commonly unheard has been burning in me for years…. here is how I am doing something to help. I believe the true key to unity is having the ability to step out of our comfort zones and embrace what awaits on the other side. Welcome to my solution that actively pushes me out of my comfort zone! In this episode I speak on who I am and what I hope to accomplish! Enjoy the groundwork to an uphill journey.

Professor Dwight Duncan gave an update on the Blaine amendment. Karlo Broussard talked about Cornelius receiving the spirit. Glenn Moots talked about the Sanford Lake disaster in Michigan and how he and his family responded to it.

Basketball Hall of Famer, Olympic gold medalist, and all-around legendary player Reggie Miller is now a huge cyclist. He joins Bobby Julich and Gus Morton to talk about the impact of sports on culture, and the impact of culture on sports, in both broad terms and in this specific moment in time. On this episode of Put Your Socks On, the Hall of Famer encourages us all, especially white people, to "put your ears on" and listen to hard conversations.   Miller talks about the positive role sports can play in society, and how the coronavirus has put that on hold in many ways. "I think sports in general and especially the NBA has always had a huge platform in terms of healing. But I think a lot of people are frustrated right now because covid and the coronavirus has stopped everything. So there's no outlet for people," Miller says. "Sports used to be the great equalizer in healing form. You know, after 9/11 it was baseball. You remember George Bush going to Yankee Stadium and throwing out the first ball, you know, 'We won't be defeated.'" Miller, Julich, and Morton talk about the similarities between Michael Jordan and Lance Armstrong, and about how Miller first got into cycling. They talk about Miller's first bikes (a Giant, then a custom Moots, then a Santa Cruz), and Miller's charitable work. Miller also talks about the importance of having uncomfortable conversations. "When you see a murder on TV of George Floyd, and this has been going on forever, and people are frustrated, they're tired, they're hurt," he says. "And you keep telling people to turn the other cheek and do have peaceful protests, and change never comes about. They are tired. So what? You know, we saw Colin Kaepernick taking a knee a peaceful protest to what has been going on, and he gets blackballed from the NFL format. And I see all these images now of police and other people kneeling. It's funny how things have come full circle because the murder of George Floyd and this officer kneeling on him forcibly for over eight minutes, lynching this man on national TV for the world to see and you got Colin Kaepernick has been telling you guys this has been going on forever." "Sports and its brightest stars can help heal the pain hopefully, but it starts from within. People need to start listening and when I say people, white people need to start listening to the pain of black and brown people in this country and in the world because it's been going on way too long," Miller says. "A young man goes out for a jog — for a jog! — and gets murdered for that, you know, we got to stop. Sometimes you've got to take an aggressive approach to create change, they want change, and it starts with people getting out there and getting to the polls and voting. You don't like a prosecutor? You don't like a president? You don't like an attorney general? You don't like a judge, vote them out. Go vote, people, get them out." Miller says people people don't want to have these conversations because they don't want to believe that racism in 2020 exist. "This goes back 400 years. I mean, I don't want to go in a history lesson here because this is a basketball and cycling show. But as long as people are willing to have a conversation and admit that racism is alive and well in America in what can we do black and brown people and white people, how can we help one another, get past this, if they're willing to have that conversation, that's the only way the healing is going to start," Miller says. "But if you're going to sit in your nice house, and turn the channel and think if we're not going to go anywhere, is nothing, no change will ever evolve from that. So if you're willing to listen, and open up and say, 'You know what, you're right.' God gave us two ears, and one mouth. Listen, put your listening ears on." And with that, give this episode of Put Your Socks on a listen.  

Basketball Hall of Famer, Olympic gold medalist, and all-around legendary player Reggie Miller is now a huge cyclist. He joins Bobby Julich and Gus Morton to talk about the impact of sports on culture, and the impact of culture on sports, in both broad terms and in this specific moment in time. On the Put Your Socks On podcast, Miller encourages us all, especially white people, to "put our ears on" and listen. Miller talks about the positive role sports can play in society, and how the coronavirus has put that on hold in many ways. "I think sports in general and especially the NBA has always had a huge platform in terms of healing. But I think a lot of people are frustrated right now because covid and the coronavirus has stopped everything. So there's no outlet for people," Miller says. "Sports used to be the great equalizer in healing form. You know, after 9/11 it was baseball. You remember George Bush going to Yankee Stadium and throwing out the first ball, you know, 'We won't be defeated.'" Miller, Julich, and Morton talk about the similarities between Michael Jordan and Lance Armstrong, and about how Miller first got into cycling. They talk about Miller's first bikes (a Giant, then a custom Moots, then a Santa Cruz), and Miller's charitable work. Miller also talks about the importance of having uncomfortable conversations. "When you see a murder on TV of George Floyd, and this has been going on forever, and people are frustrated, they're tired, they're hurt," he says. "And you keep telling people to turn the other cheek and do have peaceful protests, and change never comes about. They are tired. So what? You know, we saw Colin Kaepernick taking a knee a peaceful protest to what has been going on, and he gets blackballed from the NFL format. And I see all these images now of police and other people kneeling. It's funny how things have come full circle because the murder of George Floyd and this officer kneeling on him forcibly for over eight minutes, lynching this man on national TV for the world to see and you got Colin Kaepernick has been telling you guys this has been going on forever." "Sports and its brightest stars can help heal the pain hopefully, but it starts from within. People need to start listening and when I say people, white people need to start listening to the pain of black and brown people in this country and in the world because it's been going on way too long," Miller says. "A young man goes out for a jog — for a jog! — and gets murdered for that, you know, we got to stop. Sometimes you've got to take an aggressive approach to create change, they want change, and it starts with people getting out there and getting to the polls and voting. You don't like a prosecutor? You don't like a president? You don't like an attorney general? You don't like a judge, vote them out. Go vote, people, get them out." Miller says people people don't want to have these conversations because they don't want to believe that racism in 2020 exist. "This goes back 400 years. I mean, I don't want to go in a history lesson here because this is a basketball and cycling show. But as long as people are willing to have a conversation and admit that racism is alive and well in America in what can we do black and brown people and white people, how can we help one another, get past this, if they're willing to have that conversation, that's the only way the healing is going to start," Miller says. "But if you're going to sit in your nice house, and turn the channel and think if we're not going to go anywhere, is nothing, no change will ever evolve from that. So if you're willing to listen, and open up and say, 'You know what, you're right.' God gave us two ears, and one mouth. Listen, put your listening ears on." And with that, give this episode of Put Your Socks on a listen.

Basketball Hall of Famer, Olympic gold medalist, and all-around legendary player Reggie Miller is now a huge cyclist. He joins Bobby Julich and Gus Morton to talk about the impact of sports on culture, and the impact of culture on sports, in both broad terms and in this specific moment in time. On the Put Your Socks On podcast, Miller encourages us all, especially white people, to "put our ears on" and listen. Miller talks about the positive role sports can play in society, and how the coronavirus has put that on hold in many ways. "I think sports in general and especially the NBA has always had a huge platform in terms of healing. But I think a lot of people are frustrated right now because covid and the coronavirus has stopped everything. So there's no outlet for people," Miller says. "Sports used to be the great equalizer in healing form. You know, after 9/11 it was baseball. You remember George Bush going to Yankee Stadium and throwing out the first ball, you know, 'We won't be defeated.'" Miller, Julich, and Morton talk about the similarities between Michael Jordan and Lance Armstrong, and about how Miller first got into cycling. They talk about Miller's first bikes (a Giant, then a custom Moots, then a Santa Cruz), and Miller's charitable work. Miller also talks about the importance of having uncomfortable conversations. "When you see a murder on TV of George Floyd, and this has been going on forever, and people are frustrated, they're tired, they're hurt," he says. "And you keep telling people to turn the other cheek and do have peaceful protests, and change never comes about. They are tired. So what? You know, we saw Colin Kaepernick taking a knee a peaceful protest to what has been going on, and he gets blackballed from the NFL format. And I see all these images now of police and other people kneeling. It's funny how things have come full circle because the murder of George Floyd and this officer kneeling on him forcibly for over eight minutes, lynching this man on national TV for the world to see and you got Colin Kaepernick has been telling you guys this has been going on forever." "Sports and its brightest stars can help heal the pain hopefully, but it starts from within. People need to start listening and when I say people, white people need to start listening to the pain of black and brown people in this country and in the world because it's been going on way too long," Miller says. "A young man goes out for a jog — for a jog! — and gets murdered for that, you know, we got to stop. Sometimes you've got to take an aggressive approach to create change, they want change, and it starts with people getting out there and getting to the polls and voting. You don't like a prosecutor? You don't like a president? You don't like an attorney general? You don't like a judge, vote them out. Go vote, people, get them out." Miller says people people don't want to have these conversations because they don't want to believe that racism in 2020 exist. "This goes back 400 years. I mean, I don't want to go in a history lesson here because this is a basketball and cycling show. But as long as people are willing to have a conversation and admit that racism is alive and well in America in what can we do black and brown people and white people, how can we help one another, get past this, if they're willing to have that conversation, that's the only way the healing is going to start," Miller says. "But if you're going to sit in your nice house, and turn the channel and think if we're not going to go anywhere, is nothing, no change will ever evolve from that. So if you're willing to listen, and open up and say, 'You know what, you're right.' God gave us two ears, and one mouth. Listen, put your listening ears on." And with that, give this episode of Put Your Socks on a listen.

During the lockdown we decided to contact some of our favourite Barbers and discuss their equipment. We ask them about their current set up, their dream set up, what they would like to see in the future plus much more. It's interesting to hear the opinions of new and seasoned Barbers, platform artists and educators on Barbering companies, the Barber market and the tools that help them achieve the styles they create.

Fr Pat Driscoll talked about Pope Francis's homily on not focusing on past dissapointments. Peter Atkinson shared about the mission of The Merry Beggars. Glenn Moot discussed his article on lessons learned from CS Lewis.

Nowa Deba passed resolutions on LGBT "propaganda" and Cllr Noel McCarthy says it is not good enough for Fermoy to be twinned with it as a result. He tells PJ Coogan he wants Cork County Council to suspend or end the twinning agreement. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Fomori's Bane continues to endear themselves to the spiritual guardians of the Sept of Electric Peak. The Totem of the Sept, Thunderbird, demands a service of the pack and shows its disdain in both the physical and spiritual worlds. The pack members also must approach the Garou of the Sept to begin learning the Rites they were promised. Storyteller: Keegan Cora Two-Hearts: Sam Bi'ch Pillar-of-Questions: Riley Kyle Guards-the-Low: Tyler Shinigami Fury-Song: Alex/Lexi Mark Guide's the Fallen: Adam  “Portions of the materials are the copyrights and trademarks of White Wolf Entertainment AB, and are used with permission. All rights reserved. For more information please visit white-wolf.com.”

Brad Bingham has a unique story in the framebuilding world. Brad built his first bike frame out of utility - he kept breaking his Cannondales and he loved machining and fabrication. From there he took a titanium framebuilding class at the United Bicycle Institute, worked in production at Moots for over ten years, and then started to work with Kent Eriksen. Brad has now taken over operations at Eriksen Cycles and rebranded it to Bingham Built.Brad’s TIG welding is out of this world, as you might expect for someone who worked in production for so many years. He is also a very talented machinist and his shop-made tools are excellent. Another thing that sets Brad’s bikes apart is the full suspension frames which have a lot of engineering and custom- machined components.Sit back and enjoy the story.Check out his website and follow his instagram.

On this the pilot episode of the WAP Greenroom, Tim Hayes and I (Scott Dedenbach) lay out what the heck this show is, sort of.  We introduce what might be our recurring theme of "How NOT to be that bike shop customer". We also both brag about our "snob" titanium bikes (Moots for Tim and Seven for Scott) and then we play a little music to come up with a theme. It's not bad actually!

The gals discuss gator-filled MOOTS, how Dr. Evan Antin is TOO perfect and might be a robot, homemade bread being the single greatest food on earth, how much Rangel HATES riddles and The Bachelor, and Riley cannot stop coughing and is traumatized from flying Spirit Airlines. Also discussed, how tall a man must be before he is considered climbable, like a tree.  Follow us on Facebook and IG @moodybroadspodcast and send us an email with comments or questions at moodybroadspodcast@gmail.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/moodybroads/support

This week we speak with Jon Cariveau from Moots while touring their factory in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. We explore the benefits of titanium, the value of in-house manufacturing and the evolution of the brand. Moots Website Moots Instagram Tech Corner sponsor Thesis website  Tech Corner sponsored by Thesis. A bottom bracket, or BB, should allow your cranks to spin smoothly and silently under the intense stresses of pedalling for a long time. Unfortunately, the pursuit of weight and cost savings has led to a proliferation of flawed and often proprietary designs that can bind, creak, or even damage your frame. So what are the hallmarks of a reliable BB? Look for large, premium cartridge bearings with hardened stainless steel races and weathertight seals. Check that they’re spaced as widely apart as possible to distribute the load. Make sure they’re pressed into metal cups that are themselves separate from the frame for serviceability but then part of a rigid and tightly-toleranced metal assembly for proper alignment and support. And finally, check that it’s built to common open standards so that it’s easy to source parts or upgrade. There are only three bottom bracket standards that come close to meeting these criteria: First there’s BSA, a legacy standard optimized for metal frames and 24mm spindles. Under this standard, each bearing is pressed into a metal cup that is then threaded into the frame itself. Next there’s T47, which is essentially BSA updated to work with modern 30mm spindles. Finally there’s BB386EVO. This is my go-to because it is a common and open standard, it utilizes large bearings pushed widely apart for stiffness and durability, it doesn’t require metal to be bonded into carbon frames in a way that invites galvanic corrosion, and it is compatible with the widest range of crank options available. Note that not all bottom brackets using this standard are created equal. To prevent binding and creaking, bearings must be pressed directly into a one or two piece metal shell, and in the latter case the two cups must thread together to create a properly aligned and supportive assembly. So the next time you buy a bike, take a moment to make sure it includes a bottom bracket that will spin in silence for years to come. And with that, back to Craig and this week’s guest. Moots Interview -- automatic transcription (please excuse the typos). All right, everyone. I'm actually in steamboat springs this week. I'm talking to John from Moots and I just got a tour of the Moots factory, which was absolutely fascinating. I love seeing how everything was built from the raw tube set across the board. So John, first off, thanks for that tour. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for coming on, uh, being here with us. So just, I always like to give a little bit of context about you as an athlete to get your perspective. So how did you sort of arrive at gravel? What's your background as a cyclist? I know you've been in this sport a long time. Yeah, I think, um, you know, my, my background is mainly coming from a cyclocross, the my, I mean, as a kid I was a BMX rat and racer through college on the mountain bikes and then a road bike. And then, you know, around here in steamboat, uh, I just got really into cyclocross and was competitive and traveling and doing quite a bit of that. And you know, you don't go out and train on a cyclocross course. You go out and you ride some miles. And this bike that could take a bigger tire than a road bike all of a sudden became really useful, um, to explore these roads that are around here. And, uh, that's, that's kind of how me, myself personally got into it. Um, and uh, you know, I s I was not the first person in the valley to have a cyclocross bike, but kinda one of the first, and I found myself loaning that bike out to friends that wanted to check it out and they were like, Oh man, this is incredible. I can turn off this paved road and I can go down this junkie dirt field Rockfield road and explore and have a good time and get away from the traffic. Nice. Well we'll definitely get into some of the roads around here cause we're out here for steamboat gravel on it. I understand we've got a lot of great miles ahead of us, but for those of the listeners who haven't heard of Moots, can you tell us a little bit about the history of Moots? We're located here in steamboat springs. We always have been here. We were founded in this town in 1981 and the first 10 years of our business we built out of steel. And that was the material of the time. And in 1991, we had a pivotal moment with the company based on our why BB soft tail that we had been building that out of steel. And it was prestige to mean at the time and the fatigue resistance of steel is not nearly what titanium is. So when we made the switch, the YGB was kind of the driver, uh, with the fatigue, resistance and longevity that titanium offered. And we made that switch in 91 and haven't deviated from that path since it's our material of choice and it's what we're, uh, experts at. And if we tried another material, it would only be us kind of faking it. So that's, that's kind of our take on it. It's for us, it's the material that rides so nicely under the rider. It can be customized, it can be tuned to a heavier or lighter rider. And the durability is just kind of second to none out there. Yeah. I imagine as gravel started to pick up titanium as a material is a pretty natural choice given the sort of suppleness that can be built into the frame when you're going off road on stutter bumps and what have you. Yeah. You know, people always ask us, you know, why, why would I ride a tie bike? And um, many of them have been on steel bikes over the years. And I think the best analogy is a tie bike rides a lot like a really nicely made steel bike and ride quality smoothness, but it has this, um, a little bit more backbone to it, so to speak. And it's lighter, it doesn't corrode and it doesn't fatigue like steel will over time. You know, when you get a tie bike on day number one, it will ride the same in year number three. So it really, the ride quality doesn't degrade over time like other materials can. Right. And then for someone who's considering a carbon bike in the market, how do you talk about the differences in feel from boots, titanium frame versus a, you know, a nice carbon frame in the market? Yeah, it's, you know, we, we get that question a lot too. And it's a, it's a great comparison and, and you know, carbon is definitely the, the material of choice out there in, in most of the cycling world. But we, uh, we always talk about our bikes and what we can offer as a ride quality, um, compared to carbon and [inaudible], you know, carbon, um, when it first came out, you know, people wanted to step as possible and now they've really kind of backed down from that a little bit. And actually they're doing a really good job of providing different layups and different tube diameters that really affect the ride quality. And so, you know, it just really depends on what the, the rider is looking for. I think there's somebody that, um, gravitates towards titanium because it Kinda has this, a bit of soulfulness to it in some ways where it's like, man, I feel connected to the ground, but I'm not feeling every little jarring crack in the, in the road or, or stutter bump on the gravel road. So I think it's, um, yeah, I don't know. We're, we're never going to build our moods bikes as light as you could get a carbon bike. That's always kinda like the first thing is how light is it. And, uh, we will never have fake that. If you build a titanium bike that is large light as a carbon bike, it's going to ride horribly and it's, it just gets too light. It's not stiff enough. And so we, we don't lead with that. We lead with, it's a, a ride quality that you just can't find elsewhere. And you know, weight is third or fourth on the list for us. Really. Yeah. And as you said, I mean, when you buy a tie frame, you expect that the ride quality is going to remain the same for years and it's just simply not going to degrade. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's a lot of people come at it like, Oh man, this is going to be my last bike, my lifetime bike. And, and that's, and, and titanium's a great material for that. But as you know, the, you know, standards change and, you know, through axles come along and different fittings come along. And, and we, we really try to evolve with the good standards that do evolve out in the industry. Um, for a good purpose. You know, through axles. Um, it's the perfect made up with disc brakes. You get no rotor rub, you get no flex between the frame and the wheel. And so that was a good one for sure. Yeah, it has a positive outcome on the ride quality of the bike for sure. When you lean on a, on a through axle bike, it goes where you put it. You know, on the older quick release bikes, there's a little wiggle room in there. Yeah. Speaking of evolution, obviously this sport of gravel kind of was birthed out of opportunity and desire. So opportunity was dyspraxia, tubeless, tires, all these things that made it. So if you wrote a drop bar bike with narrow tires off road, you weren't flatting all the time and opportunity obviously like as traffic becomes more and more of a problem, people just want to get off road for that adventure. In my mind, you know, Moots having such a long history, obviously I was familiar with you on the road and on the mountain and I started to see what I categorize it as adventure bikes come out. I started to see people doing the tour divide on Moots bikes, moods designed bikes, which was really interesting. But then I started to see you guys move into the sweet spot of the great quote unquote gravel market at this point. What was the first model that was sort of that pure gravel bike that you, you made? Yeah, it's a great question. So the first model we made, we actually took one of our older cross bikes and it was called the Cyclo ax. And the first year that we really moved towards like a true gravel geometry of lower bottom bracket, little longer chain stays in the cross bike, more tire clearance and maybe a little more relaxed angles. Um, we changed the geometry, but we didn't change the name. And in hindsight we were, we've all, all of us have said to each other like, what were we thinking? Um, we didn't rename it and people always kept thinking it was the Cyclo x, uh, cyclocross bike. And so that was actually put out as a product. Um, gosh, it was probably about 2013 maybe something like that over six years ago. And it was an instant hit. And what, what kind of drove that was our own riding around steamboat, like everybody up Moots rides in some form or another. And we started using cross bikes as that and then we were like, you know, we can tweak this to be better for the purpose. And we had several shops ordering our cross bikes as customs and tweaking the geometry themselves to lower bottom brackets, the longer chain stays. And there was one in one shop in particular. Um, in Northern Illinois, uh, that Toby DePaul, a very good friend of ours was involved with and he kept ordering this bike with this same geometry. And we're like, what are you doing? He's like, it's for these big heavy gravel roads out here. And they called it the minute tar in their shop. It was like their own name for one of our bikes and a Toby's super nice guys. He's really involved in the industry and development of tires now and things like that. But that was the start of it. And, um, the following year, you know, we finally, uh, realize, hey, we need to change the name of this. And, uh, that's where the route name, uh, came in and the, the, the history of their route. R O u t t is actually the county that we live in, uh, here in steamboat. It's called Routt County, Colorado. And we thought it was a clever play on words, you know, hey, I'm going to go out and do a route or this route or that route. And we were like, yeah, that should be our gravel bike name. And so that first bike went from cyclo acts the first year with the gravel geometry and then it was renamed the second year to the route. Okay. Yeah. And then the line has expanded from there at this point. Yeah, it, it really has. And, and you know, as the evolution of great bike components like really started happening, um, tires got better, rims got better. And so the need to expand our, our tire sizes, uh, accessibility was there. So, uh, shortly after that, um, we developed the route 45 and that is named, there's a couple of reasons. His name, route 45 is, there's a county road out here called Cow Creek. And on the map it's actually county road 45 and it is in the steamboat gravel race this year. It's got some of the bigger, chunkier stuff in the county. And so with that we expanded the tire clearance to a 45 millimeter on that bike. And we also, we had to bump the chain, stays out to a 45 centimeter chain stay for the clearance. Yeah. And one of the things we were talking about offline, which I think is interesting as it comes up often on the podcast, is just the notion of 700 c versus six 50 and a lot of bike brands are offering the ability to run both. But you guys have have said sort of, unless it's custom, we're squarely in the 700 c route. Um, can you talk a little bit about that decision and that sort of ramifications on design and performance that you see? Yeah, and you know, I think, um, for Moots we really, when we talk to our customers, our dealers out there as well, it's really about the best ride quality we can give them. And when it comes down to bike frame switching in between 700 c and six 50 B on the same bike frame, it, it can be done. But in some ways you're, you're kind of, uh, settling for like maybe not the best performance with each one of those setups. It's kind of the middle ground. Um, and with titanium we run into a pretty big issue of manipulating the curves of the chain stays to accommodate that tire size. So we, we really feel, you know, when we come out with our, our line, which now includes the route RSL, which is the racier gravel bike, the route 45 and then the route y BB, we really design from the onset around 700. See it's optimized to perform best with that wheel set and that's anywhere from a 35 millimeter to a 45 millimeter tire. And for us, when you go to the six 50 [inaudible], um, it drops our bottom bracket height too much and we're really afraid that we're going to give a customer out there a ride experience that is not optimal. They're going to be hitting cranks on trail debris and rocks and stuff like that because the bottom bracket changes, the height is different. Um, and so we haven't got there yet. Um, we'll see what the future holds for us. I'm not, not saying that we have one in the works or anything, but we definitely understand the need for the six 50. That's, it's really a very regional in, in a lot of places, you know, where it's steep trails and, and we've kind of migrated back to riding our mountain bike trails, um, on drop bar bikes now and gravel bikes. So there is that, um, you know, the coastal California stuff where it's really steep and rocky and, and it's the old school mountain bike trails. Um, we, we definitely understand the need for that. And then the, on the outer end of your lineup, you do have the Baxter, which would you describe it as a drop bar? Mountain bike? Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, drop bar mountain bike or monster cross. But it really, that bike is specifically made, um, you know, for 2.1 to 2.2 tires, um, in a 29 format. And geometry is adept adjusted for drop bar reach versus a flat bar reach. And that's, that's our, you know, our super adventure, you know, ha, super heavy gravel, light trail, even heavy trail. And then loaded, uh, bike packing on drop bars for sure. And then if you run a narrower tire on that bike, what are the shortcomings like if you, if you chose that as the model of choice for you, but you wrote it on the road as well, where, where are you seeing the shortcomings? Well, it's, it's kind of a, a Mutt of a bike. So it's primarily basically designed around a mountain bike drive, train. And so if you were to put real small tires on it and go out and hit the road, you would pretty soon find out that your gearing was not where you wanted to be. And that's, you know, again, you've got to kind of got to straddle the fence a little bit of trying to, um, you know, design a bike that we see that as primarily being written on single track and double track and stuff like that. And you're going to suffer a little bit on a smooth paved section to get to the next dirt. Yeah, it's interesting. I think that's been sort of a challenge as, as a consumer in the gravel market. And really the reason I started podcasting was I went on this journey of soul searching as to what bike did I really need for the type of riding that was going to give me the most pleasure. And I optimized around that and you know, it wasn't optimized around the road side of things, but I'll still ride that bike on the road. So I think it's, it's something that consumers have to contend with. You know, you have to make that, that choice at some point. Yeah. There's always a little bit of sacrifice, like unless it's a very specific area, um, there's going to be some, some, uh, sacrifice of a how it's not going to perform the best right in this setting, but for 80% of my riding it is, and then you kind of suffer through the 20% a little bit here and there. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about sort of choices consumers have to make, there seems to be a growing trend towards looking at adding more and more suppleness to these gravel bikes. And it was exciting to see at sea otter this year, the release of your YTB based gravel bike. You mentioned earlier that the technology obviously was created many years ago on the mountain bike and was responsible for a lot of Moots growth during that time period. Can you talk about the why BB specifically and maybe distill some of that, that concern someone might have about a non pivot point suspension on gravel bikes. Like I said earlier, the y BB made it with the titanium material. So you've got this material that has a fatigue resistance that um, with our, uh, testing that we've, we've sent our products off too and had them cycle tested. They just very rarely if ever fail. And so basically what we're relying on is the flex of the chain stay true to provide travel at the axle. And with the new, the route y BB gravel bike, we are, we're mapping out just a little over 20 millimeters of travel at the axle. And so we use that modest a, a piece that conceals a steel spring. And on the last summer core, very simple set up. There's no air. There's no, uh, compressed air or compressed oil to leak. It's greased, has a wiper seal on it, just like your, a suspension fork does it serviceable by the consumer, very easy. Um, and it's only really needed to be serviced every two to three years. And so what that provides us is this ability to take the edge off of all the little tiny frequency hits that are out there on the gravel road. So washboard, potholes, bigger rocks, things like that. And it allows the, the rider of the bike to stay seated in the saddle instead of having to lift their weight out and activate their thigh muscles or their back muscles. And you can kinda stay seated and pedal right through a lot of stuff. And in the end, you know, like on a a hundred mile day that like on a tomorrow for the, the gravel race, you're going to feel fresher. Um, you're not going to be taking it in the lower back all day long. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's kinda where we see things going. Um, and it's, it's been with us, like we were talking earlier since the late eighties in a steel mountain bike and then on into our, our regular mountain bikes. So we really know our tech, that technology and um, it's, it's pretty simple stuff. Do you tune it based on the rider weight? Yes, as the frame. Uh, as that model goes up through the sizes, um, it's stiffened up towards the bigger bikes and then it's softened up towards the smaller bikes and it all kind of operates on kind of an average rider weight for the given size. And if we, if we get a customer that's maybe on the light side for 56, say, uh, we can soften it up a little bit. If they're on the heavy side for 56, we can add a little bit of stiffness to it. Um, but really it's, you're not trying to control a ton of travel, so there's a very limited amount of tuning that can actually be felt or, or notice. But there is a little bit. So if you're, if you're a consumer kind of thinking about that model, or is it typically going to be someone who's writing primarily off road and not using that as a, as a road bike? Um, we get, we have, um, but heavy on the off road use for sure. Um, you can still put a, a set of, uh, you know, slick 35 millimeter tires in that bike and go and enjoy a, a paved road ride. And it's interesting about the Y BBI. People get on it and they ride it for a couple of weeks when they, when they buy it and they're like, yeah, I, I kinda understand it. I kind of feel it. Um, and then you say, okay, we'll put that bike away in the garage and then get back on your old bike and go for a ride. And then they come back and they go, oh, now I get it. Yeah. I think that's probably the best thing if they can only just kind of feel it. Yeah. And then they'll start to learn, like the fatigue factor is minimized by having that kind of design element. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, it's, it is, it's, you know, short distances, long distance. It's just a great feeling bike. And, um, many years ago we used to build, um, our road bike with a y BB unit in it, kind of like a Perry ru bay style bike. And there weren't many of those out there in the world, but those that have them absolutely swear by them, even on the pavement all day long. Yeah. Um, with Frost heaves and, you know, the state of most paved roads that we have around our or is not very good. Yeah, absolutely. I jokingly say that in Sonoma there's a big series called the grasshopper series, and I find that Rhodes to be more dangerous than the trails we're on. Right, exactly. Uh, yeah. Well, it's, I mean, it's, I think it's really fascinating, as I said before, that there's the notion of suspension coming to gravel bikes and how it's gonna fit into people's lives and, um, it's going to be really interesting, I think over the next couple of years just to see where, you know, where it ends up falling. Is everybody attracted to that or is there a little bit of resistance and I mean that's the beauty of gravel to each their own right. Get the bike that works for you. Yeah, I think there, there is a definitely a writer that is like, that is absolutely what I'm looking for. And then there's some that'll stick with the, you know, the RSL or the route 45 in the hard tail. Um, that, you know, they'll get their suspension from high volume tires and low pressures and um, but I think, you know, as we kind of see people riding for many years during their lifetime, you know, they want to continue riding into their, you know, golden years, so to speak. It's definitely going to be a factor of a, this is more comfortable. I can ride longer and I'm not as stiff afterwards. Yeah. Since we're out here for SBT gravel and you're a local, I'd love to get your take on the course as I'm sure it's inspired many of the models we've just talked about. Yeah. It is a, it's so awesome. It's, you know, we host our own little event here in June every year, which is called the ranch rally. And it uses, uh, uh, some of the same courses and areas there'll be on tomorrow. But, um, yeah, it's uh, my take on it is, uh, [inaudible] I think the fast people are going to go through this course pretty fast. It's going to be, um, it's, it'll be a fast pace. Is it conducive to riding in groups? Um, there most of the course, yeah, the roads are fairly wide and we have, um, our, uh, road and bridge, which is county road maintenance around here. They do a treatment to the roads called MAG chloride. And so in June, after the rains hopefully stop in the spring, they grade them and then they seal them with this mag chloride that makes them, in some cases almost like pavement. Um, but in August, right now you get to the point where the roads are starting to fall apart a bit. Uh, the dirt roads and the gravel. So we'll see. I think it's going to be conducive to a pack racing. So there'll be really important. On some of the longer, more dirt road versus gravel road sections to be with somebody or a group of people yeah. To conserve some energy in and get a little free ride here and there. But uh, it's gonna be tough. It's, uh, you know, I look at this course and it's kind of our three most favorite gravel loops tied into one big day. Okay. And that's exciting because the folks that are racing it, you're gonna get an unbelievable tour of Routt county. Um, and you're going to probably want to come back and do some more writing. And for the, as, for the climbing, or is it mostly on sort of those same type of roads that the big climbs occur on? Or do we get a little bit on some quieter trails? Um, there's no real trail out there, but the, the climbs that you're going to be hitting, in my opinion, the, the steeper one will be up around steamboat lake. Uh, it goes up around the back and that's dirt and there's, there's a few switchbacks in there. It's kind of gets to that point where it's that steep and then, you know, it's mainly five, six, maybe 7% Colorado grade where they can't really build the roads too steep around here. Even the gravel roads because they still have to use them during the winter. And if they're built super steep, that presents a problem with our amount of snow that we get. Yeah. And around here, but now I think it's going to be amazing. You're going to get views of north route up around the lake and then as you head south on the south end of the course, you're gonna get some views of the flat top mountains that are, you're going to get lost in your own head. It's going to be very scenic. Nice. Or sure. I, for one athlete, we'll probably need to get [inaudible] lost a little bit to that. Forget about how much of my lungs are pounding and my legs are pounding. Yeah, yeah. The altitude. It'll be okay. Interesting. It's, I think probably one of the grom longest gravel races at altitude. Um, that's around. Yeah. You know, we're base base elevation. A Steamboat's about 6,700 feet and I think you'll get close to almost 9,000 feet out on the course. Yeah, I think you're right about, I hadn't thought about that. But you know, if you think about as a professional athlete that the types of races they're racing is, there's a lot of sea level staff up there out in the calendar. Yeah. I mean we, we were out at the DK and June and uh, that's, that's down to sea level for us. It felt like we were absolutely drinking oxygen, um, up here. That'll be a challenge. You know, the, the longer day and the vertical climbed coupled with the altitude, it'll be, it'll be a tough day. Nice. For sure. Well, thank you so much again for the tour. It was great to kind of look around moods I've, I've known about the brand for decades and decades and all this admired what you do and looking at the detail work that you've been able to achieve with the etching and the organization and bringing everything pretty much in house in Colorado. You can tell the output is so much in your control and the brand and the quality is so elevated that I encourage everybody to kind of look at the [inaudible] website, check out the imagery, find a local dealer to take a test drive on one of these bikes. I've done a little bit of time on a moot to myself and it was a pleasure. So John, thanks for having us look forward to seeing you out on the course tomorrow. Yeah, probably from behind at some point. Well, thanks for coming in. Uh, yeah. Anytime you're in steamboat, come and look us up.

Union Home Minister Amit Shah on Monday proposed the idea of a multipurpose identity card for citizens with all utilities like passport, Aadhaar, driving licence and bank accounts.  Calling for creating 2021 Census data in digital form, Amit Shah said a mobile app would be used for the first time in the 2021 Census. He claimed, It would be a big revolution in the country’s Census exercise. Which card can serve the purpose? Listen to the podcast to know more

Or Javelin Sister, Flying Fraternal, Hexed Demises, Edward Vaginas, War Prediction

Host Zachary Elwood interviews Benjamin Moots, who served 15 years in prison for second degree murder, mostly in maximum security settings. Topics include: his story of what led to his murder conviction, descriptions of prison life, prison slang, sexual and physical assault dynamics, how prison encourages aggression, how poker games work in prison, and more.

It's getting hot hot hot in the Tinder Talks studio and our guest Moots doesn't like it! Join Megan Malaika (and Moots!) as they talk about summer dating and blockbuster who you'd rather! Follow us on our social media! https://twitter.com/tindertalkspod or @TinderTalksPod on Twitter and https://www.instagram.com/tindertalkspod/ or @TinderTalksPod on Instagram

The Spokesmen Cycling Roundtable Podcast Episode 218 “When I am on a bike, I still get chill bombs” Thursday 4th July 2019 SPONSOR: Jenson USA HOST: Carlton Reid GUEST: Brent Whittington, owner of Moots.

One John sits with Brad Bingham of Eriksen Cycles and Bingham Built about why, how and what he makes.

Find us on Facebook! Join The Support group!Our weekly can’t evensLeanne professes her love for Geocaching (check out her blog post on the topic…)And Jennie can’t even stop buying kids clothes from small boutiques on Instagram. Like RiverBabe Threads and Moots clothing for sexy hoodies that hide yesterday’s hair! We lead exciting lives.Summer Tips For The Haters!Have A Plan… with Grace. (Looking for summer structure? Check out Jennie’s Premeditated Summer series… feel free to throw it out the window to do laundry… )Take a Shower… it’s like you can’t escape Jesus, in a good way.Know your Grumpy Triggers, and respond accordingly. Let your kids be bored - Here’s that article. Don’t be Afraid to Step Out and let someone else make some memories.Dress your baby in a beer shirt, I mean buy T-shirts that make you smile. Pack a Pool Bag and just have that sucker ready to go! (Suits, sunscreen, snacks, swim diapers… the 4 Ss of Summer)Give your kids chores for screen time and be hands off with the litter box and dishwasher for the rest of the summer.

Billy Methley interviews the Master of Moots on the topic of, you guessed it, mooting! Who, what, when, where, and why do we moot?

01-30-2009 Russ Moots Chapel Message on "Why Do Bad Things Happen to Christian People?" Order CD Quality Sermons Here

01-30-2009 Russ Moots Chapel Message on "Why Do Bad Things Happen to Christian People?" Order CD Quality Sermons Here