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S7, EP 208Special Guest: Mike PecciJoin us tonight at the Chaos Table and listen in on our conversation with award winning Director, filmmaker, writer and visual storyteller Mike Pecci.Mike is known for blending horror, science fiction, and emotionally grounded genre filmmaking with striking cinematic imagery. Classically trained in silent film directing and cinematography in New York, Pecci built his career directing commercials, music videos, and branded content before emerging as one of the most distinctive voices in independent horror cinema. His work combines old school visual storytelling with modern cinematic intensity, drawing inspiration from filmmakers like John Carpenter, Steven Spielberg, Alfred Hitchcock, and Andrei Tarkovsky.Pecci first gained major attention with his viral science fiction horror short film 12 Kilometers, a Lovecraftian nightmare inspired by the real life Kola Superdeep Borehole. The film became a cult phenomenon online, praised for its atmosphere, practical effects, sound design, and cinematic ambition. The film generated a massive grassroots following through an unconventional “you need the director's permission to watch it” release campaign, helping it spread virally throughout the horror community. Critics described the film as “what if David Lynch directed The Thing,” while audiences praised its haunting tone and immersive visual style. Since the release of 12 Kilometers, Pecci's films have screened at major genre and independent film festivals around the world, including the FilmQuest, where his short film Come Home earned him the award for Best Director. His experimental horror fashion film Metanoia, starring David Dastmalchian, received multiple festival nominations including Best Cinematography and Best Macro Short at FilmQuest, as well as nominations at the London Fashion Film Festival. Outside of narrative filmmaking, Pecci has directed over 30 music videos and commercial campaigns for artists and brands including Killswitch Engage, Meshuggah, Czarface, Bose, Fujifilm, Leica, and Samuel Adams. Pecci is also the creator and host of the long running filmmaking podcast In Love with the Process, where he interviews some of the industry's top cinematographers, directors, editors, and artists about the realities of the creative process. The show has become a respected platform within the filmmaking community for its honest conversations about art, struggle, obsession, and storytelling.Known for his visceral visual language, love of practical filmmaking, and emotionally driven horror, Mike Pecci continues to push genre storytelling into bold and unexpected territory. His work has earned a passionate cult following among filmmakers and horror fans alike, establishing him as one of the most exciting emerging voices in modern genre cinema.Mike's Links -Website - http://mikepecci.com/Podcast - http://inlovewiththeprocess.com/IG- https://www.instagram.com/mikepecci/This is a shareable podcast where a group of creatives join together to  document their creative voiceover & on-camera journeys in real time. We hope this podcast creates inspiration, stirs up a few ah-ha moments or maybe brings to the surface a feeling of "you're not alone" while navigating the creative process. Either way, we are glad you are here.  Oh, and we also pull into our conversations at the chaos table industry professionals along with other fellow actors, to share their stories, experiences and knowledge - so we can all connect, share, learn, grow and expand together.  This podcast is for entertainment and not educational purposes!  Enjoy and thank you for listening to our Creative Chaos! *Have a creative story or journey to share, we'd love to hear it - email us at chaoskeepers411@gmail.com or jozlynrocki@gmail.com Follow all the Chaos - YT - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChG0fKKBt2QNplJowSaKU6wFB - https://www.facebook.com/keepingupwithchaospodcastIG - https://www.instagram.com/keeping_up_with_chaos/

Abstract: In this episode, Karin and Elizabeth discuss their experiences at Kingvention, a Michael Jackson fan convention. Karin explained her decision to skip this year's convention due to ethical concerns about AI-generated content using Michael Jackson's art and voice, comparing it to desecrating works by Shakespeare or Rembrandt. Elizabeth shared her experience, where she sold copies of her book "Dangerous Philosophies" and met with other fans and talked about the special guests, including Bill Wolfer, Hugo Huizar, and Seth Smith. They discussed the convention's exhibits featuring Captain EO memorabilia, costumes, and props, as well as the community's commitment to preserving Michael Jackson's artistic legacy. Elizabeth emphasised the importance of bringing together fans and academics to advance Michael Jackson studies, noting how the convention helped foster this community connection. REFERENCE AS:Merx, Karin, and Elizabeth Amisu. “Episode 92 – KingVention Special” Podcast, Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation, 13 no. 4 (2026). Published electronically 03/06/26. https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/episode-92-kingvention-special Episode 92 – KingVention SpecialBy Elizabeth Amisu & Karin Merx Elizabeth Amisu, PGCE, MA, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies and author of The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. Find out more about Elizabeth here. Karin Merx, BMus, MA Art History, BA Cultural Philosophy, Classically trained Artist, Classically trained Musician, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, and author of  A festive parade of highlights. La Grande Parade as evaluation of the museum policy of Edy De Wilde at the Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam, published with academic publisher Eburon. Find out more about Karin here. Our References and Where to Easily Find Them: Elizabeth Amisu, The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife (Bloomsbury, paperback 2023) https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/dangerous-philosophies-of-michael-jackson-9798765123645/ Karin Merx, 'Echoes without Presence: AI Michael Jackson, and the Crisis of Cultural Authenticity', The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies (Nov. 18, 2025) https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/echoes-without-presence-ai-michael-jackson-and-the-crisis-of-cultural-authenticity/

Abstract: In this episode, Elizabeth and Karin start with a series about The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. They go through it chapter by chapter. They start with the preamble, forewords, the Selected Chronology and Chapter 1: Introduction: Reading, Writing, and Rewriting. REFERENCE AS: Merx, Karin, and Elizabeth Amisu. “Episode 91 – The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson Part 1” Podcast, Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation, 13 no. 4 (2026). Published electronically 21/05/26. https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/episode-91-the-dangerous-philosophies-of-michael-jackson-part-1 The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies asks that you acknowledge The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies as the source of our Content; if you use material from The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies online, we request that you link directly to the stable URL provided. If you use our content offline, please credit the source as follows: “Courtesy of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies.” All content is copyright-protected. Any unauthorised reproduction, redistribution, or use for artificial intelligence, machine learning, or automated data collection is strictly prohibited. Episode 91 – The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson Part 1By Elizabeth Amisu & Karin Merx Elizabeth Amisu, PGCE, MA, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies and author of The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. Find out more about Elizabeth here. Karin Merx, BMus, MA Art History, BA Cultural Philosophy, Classically trained Artist, Classically trained Musician, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, and author of  A festive parade of highlights. La Grande Parade as evaluation of the museum policy of Edy De Wilde at the Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam, published with academic publisher Eburon. Find out more about Karin here. Our References and Where to Easily Find Them: Elizabeth Amisu, The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife (Bloomsbury, paperback 2023) https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/dangerous-philosophies-of-michael-jackson-9798765123645/

Making a Scene Presents an Interview with Andra Suchy Andra Suchy is a North Dakota native with a voice that stops people in their tracks. Classically trained and a veteran of musical theater, she grew up in a talented, music-filled family and developed the kind of vocal control and emotional range that only comes from years of disciplined performance. Over time, that foundation has made her one of the most in-demand singers in the Midwest and beyond—an artist equally at home on a grand stage, in a studio, or harmonizing beside legendary names. http://www.makingascene.org

Abstract: In this episode, Elizabeth and Karin discuss the biopic Michael in relation to cinematography, narratives, acting, performance and more. REFERENCE AS: Merx, Karin, and Elizabeth Amisu. “Episode 90 – An Academic Perspective on the Michael Biopic” Podcast, Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation, 13 no. 3 (2026). Published electronically 24/04/26. https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/episode-90-an-academic-perspective-on-the-michael-biopic The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies asks that you acknowledge The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies as the source of our Content; if you use material from The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies online, we request that you link directly to the stable URL provided. If you use our content offline, please credit the source as follows: “Courtesy of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies.” All content is copyright-protected. Any unauthorised reproduction, redistribution, or use for artificial intelligence, machine learning, or automated data collection is strictly prohibited. Episode 90 – An Academic Perspective on the Michael BiopicBy Elizabeth Amisu & Karin Merx Elizabeth Amisu, PGCE, MA, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies and author of The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. Find out more about Elizabeth here. Karin Merx, BMus, MA Art History, BA Cultural Philosophy, Classically trained Artist, Classically trained Musician, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, and author of  A festive parade of highlights. La Grande Parade as evaluation of the museum policy of Edy De Wilde at the Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam, published with academic publisher Eburon. Find out more about Karin here. Our References and Where to Easily Find Them: Elizabeth Amisu, The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife (Bloomsbury, paperback 2023) https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/dangerous-philosophies-of-michael-jackson-9798765123645/

Choosing the right flour can make or break your bakery process. Wheat flour constitutes over 50% of bread formulas and about 25% of cake formulas, which is why controlling the quality (https://bakerpedia.com/processes/flour-quality/) of this key ingredient is essential. Through R&D and collaboration with millers, bakers can reduce costs over time while maximizing their yield and profits. In this episode of BAKED in Science, host Mark Floerke is joined by master baker Richard Charpentier to discuss how bakers can use the right ingredients to get the most out of the research and development process. Richard Charpentier has over 35 years of extensive bakery experience in snacks and breads. Classically trained as a French baker and Certified Master Baker, he has gone on to include bakery science, grain milling, and food history in his repertoire. He is currently the CEO of Baking Innovation (https://baking-innovation.com), finding practical uses for emerging innovations and technologies. Better Ingredients for Better Margins Some topics covered include: Thermal profiling Bakery equipment considerations Advice for managing ingredient costs Selecting the right flour Leveraging AI, with a caveat The exciting future for bakers This podcast is brought to you by: Grain Millers Grain Millers is a leading manufacturer of organic and conventional whole grain ingredients focused on supplying safe and healthy ingredients that add value. Check out their gluten-free oats, fibers, wheat, barley, and rye ingredients at www.grainmillers.com!

We're proud to release this ahead of Ryan's keynote at AIE Europe. Hit the bell, get notified when it is live! Attendees: come prepped for Ryan's AMA with Vibhu after.Move over, context engineering. Now it's time for Harness engineering and the age of the token billionaires.Ryan Lopopolo of OpenAI is leading that charge, recently publishing a lengthy essay on Harness Eng that has become the talk of the town:In it, Ryan peeled back the curtains on how the recently announced OpenAI Frontier team have become OpenAI's top Codex users, running a >1m LOC codebase with 0 human written code and, crucially for the Dark Factory fans, no human REVIEWED code before merge. Ryan is admirably evangelical about this, calling it borderline “negligent” if you aren't using >1B tokens a day (roughly $2-3k/day in token spend based on market rates and caching assumptions):Over the past five months, they ran an extreme experiment: building and shipping an internal beta product with zero manually written code. Through the experiment, they adopted a different model of engineering work: when the agent failed, instead of prompting it better or to “try harder,” the team would look at “what capability, context, or structure is missing?”The result was Symphony, “a ghost library” and reference Elixir implementation (by Alex Kotliarskyi) that sets up a massive system of Codex agents all extensively prompted with the specificity of a proper PRD spec, but without full implementation:The future starts taking shape as one where coding agents stop being copilots and start becoming real teammates anyone can use and Codex is doubling down on that mission with their Superbowl messaging of “you can just build things”.Across Codex, internal observability stacks, and the multi-agent orchestration system his team calls Symphony, Ryan has been pushing what happens when you optimize an entire codebase, workflow, and organization around agent legibility instead of human habit.We sat down with Ryan to dig into how OpenAI's internal teams actually use Codex, why the real bottleneck in AI-native software development is now human attention rather than tokens, how fast build loops, observability, specs, and skills let agents operate autonomously, why software increasingly needs to be written for the model as much as for the engineer, and how Frontier points toward a future where agents can safely do economically valuable work across the enterprise.We discuss:* Ryan's background from Snowflake, Brex, Stripe, and Citadel to OpenAI Frontier Product Exploration, where he works on new product development for deploying agents safely at enterprise scale* The origin of “harness engineering” and the constraint that kicked off the whole experiment: Ryan deliberately refused to write code himself so the agent had to do the job end to end* Building an internal product over five months with zero lines of human-written code, more than a million lines in the repo, and thousands of PRs across multiple Codex model generations* Why early Codex was painfully slow at first, and how the team learned to decompose tasks, build better primitives, and gradually turn the agent into a much faster engineer than any individual human* The obsession with fast build times: why one minute became the upper bound for the inner loop, and how the team repeatedly retooled the build system to keep agents productive* Why humans became the bottleneck, and how Ryan's team shifted from reviewing code directly to building systems, observability, and context that let agents review, fix, and merge work autonomously* Skills, docs, tests, markdown trackers, and quality scores as ways of encoding engineering taste and non-functional requirements directly into context the agent can use* The shift from predefined scaffolds to reasoning-model-led workflows, where the harness becomes the box and the model chooses how to proceed* Symphony, OpenAI's internal Elixir-based orchestration layer for spinning up, supervising, reworking, and coordinating large numbers of coding agents across tickets and repos* Why code is increasingly disposable, why worktrees and merge conflicts matter less when agents can resolve them, and what it really means to fully delegate the PR lifecycle* “Ghost libraries”, spec-driven software, and the idea that a coding agent can reproduce complex systems from a high-fidelity specification rather than shared source code* The broader future of Frontier: safely deploying observable, governable agents into enterprises, and building the collaboration, security, and control layers needed for real-world agentic workRyan Lopopolo* X: https://x.com/_lopopolo* Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlopopolo/* Website: https://hyperbo.la/contact/Timestamps00:00:00 Introduction: Harness Engineering and OpenAI Frontier00:02:20 Ryan's background and the “no human-written code” experiment00:08:48 Humans as the bottleneck: systems thinking, observability, and agent workflows00:12:24 Skills, scaffolds, and encoding engineering taste into context00:17:17 What humans still do, what agents already own, and why software must be agent-legible00:24:27 Delegating the PR lifecycle: worktrees, merge conflicts, and non-functional requirements00:31:57 Spec-driven software, “ghost libraries,” and the path to Symphony00:35:20 Symphony: orchestrating large numbers of coding agents00:43:42 Skill distillation, self-improving workflows, and team-wide learning00:50:04 CLI design, policy layers, and building token-efficient tools for agents00:59:43 What current models still struggle with: zero-to-one products and gnarly refactors01:02:05 Frontier's vision for enterprise AI deployment01:08:15 Culture, humor, and teaching agents how the company works01:12:29 Harness vs. training, Codex model progress, and “you can just do things”01:15:09 Bellevue, hiring, and OpenAI's expansion beyond San FranciscoTranscriptRyan Lopopolo: I do think that there is an interesting space to explore here with Codex, the harness, as part of building AI products, right? There's a ton of momentum around getting the models to be good at coding. We've seen big leaps in like the task complexity with each incremental model release where if you can figure out how to collapse a product that you're trying to.Build a user journey that you're trying to solve into code. It's pretty natural to use the Codex Harness to solve that problem for you. It's done all the wiring and lets you just communicate in prompts. To let the model cook, you have to step back, right? Like you need to take a systems thinking mindset to things and constantly be asking, where is the Asian making mistakes?Where am I spending my time? How can I not spend that time going forward? And then build confidence in the automation that I'm putting in place. So I have solved this part of the SDLC.swyx: [00:01:00] All right.[00:01:03] Meet Ryan swyx: We're in the studio with Ryan from OpenAI. Welcome.Ryan Lopopolo: Hi,swyx: Thanks for visiting San Francisco and thanks for spending some time with us.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, thank you. I'm super excited to be here.swyx: You wrote a blockbuster article on harness engineering. It's probably going to be the defining piece of this emerging discipline, huh?Ryan Lopopolo: Thank you. It is it's been fun to feel like we've defined the discourse in some sense.swyx: Let's contextualize a little bit, this first podcast you've ever done. Yes. And thank you for spending with us. What is, where is this coming from? What team are you in all that jazz?Ryan Lopopolo: Sure, sure.Ryan Lopopolo: I work on Frontier Product Exploration, new product development in the space of OpenAI Frontier, which is our enterprise platform for deploying agents safely at scale, with good governance in any business. And. The role of VMI team has been to figure out novel ways to deploy our models into package and products that we can sell as solutions to enterprises.swyx: And you have a background, I'll just squeeze it in there. Snowflake, brick, [00:02:00] stripe, citadel.Ryan Lopopolo: Yes. Yes. Same. Any kind of customerswyx: entire life. Yes. The exact kind of customer that you want to,Vibhu: so I'll say, I was actually, I didn't expect the background when I looked at your Twitter, I'm seeing the opposite.Stuff like this. So you've got the mindset of like full send AI, coding stuff about slop, like buckling in your laptop on your Waymo's. Yes. And then I look at your profile, I'm like, oh, you're just like, you're in the other end too. Oh, perfect. Makes perfect.Ryan Lopopolo: I it's quite fun to be AI maximalist if you're gonna live that persona.Open eye is the place to do it. And it'sswyx: token is what you say.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Certainly helps that we have no rate limits internally. And I can go, like you said, full send at this stay.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. So the Frontier, and you're a special team within O Frontier.Ryan Lopopolo: We had been given some space to cook, which has been super, super exciting.[00:02:47] Zero Code ExperimentRyan Lopopolo: And this is why I started with kind of a out there constraint to not write any of the code myself. I was figuring if we're trying to make agents that can be deployed into end to enterprises, they should be [00:03:00] able to do all the things that I do. And having worked with these coding models, these coding harnesses over 6, 7, 8 months, I do feel like the models are there enough, the harnesses are there enough where they're isomorphic to me in capability and the ability to do the job.So starting with this constraint of I can't write the code meant that the only way I could do my job was to get the agent to do my job.Vibhu: And like a, just a bit of background before that. This is basically the article. So what you guys did is five months of working on an internal tool, zero lines of code over a mi, a million lines of code in the total code base.You say it was cenex, more like it was cenex faster than you would've. If you had done it by end. SoRyan Lopopolo: yeah, thatVibhu: was the mindset going into this, right?Ryan Lopopolo: That's right.[00:03:46] Model Upgrades LessonsRyan Lopopolo: Started with some of the very first versions of Codex CLI, with the Codex Mini model, which was obviously much less capable than the ones we have today.Which was also a very good constraint, right? Quite a visceral feeling to ask the [00:04:00] model to build you a product feature. And it just not being able to assemble the pieces together.Which kind of defined one of the mindsets we had for going into this, which is whenever the model just cannot, you always pop open at the task, double click into it, and build smaller building blocks that then you can reassemble into the broader objective.And it was quite painful to do this. Honestly, the first month and a half was. 10 times slower than I would be. But because we paid that cost, we ended up getting to something much more productive than any one engineer could be because we built the tools, the assembly station for the agent to do the whole thing.[00:04:43] Model Generations, Build Systems & Background ShellsRyan Lopopolo: But yeah, so onward to G BT 5, 5, 1, 5, 2, 5, 3, 5 4. To go through all these model generations and see their kind of corks and different working styles also meant we had to adapt the code base to change things up when the model was revved. [00:05:00] One interesting thing here is five two, the Codex harness at the time did not have background shells in it, which means we were able to rely on blocking scripts to perform long horizon work.But with five, three and background shells, it became less patient, less willing to block. So we had to retool the entire build system to complete in under a minute and. This is not a thing I would expect to be able to do in a code base where people have opinions. But because the only goal was to make the Asian productive over the course of a week, we went from a bespoke make file build to Basil, to turbo to nx and just left it there because builds were fast at that point.swyx: Interesting. Talk more about Turbo TenX. That's interesting ‘cause that's the other direction that other people have been doing.Ryan Lopopolo: Ultimately I have. Not a lot of experience with actual frontend repo architecture.swyx: You're talking that Jessica built the sky. So I'm like, I know the NX team. I know Turbo from Jared [00:06:00] Palmer.And I'm like, yeah, that's an interesting comparison.[00:06:02] One Minute Build LoopRyan Lopopolo: The hill we were climbing right, was make it fast.swyx: Is there a micro front end involved? Is it how how complex reactRyan Lopopolo: electron base single app sort of thingswyx: And must be under a minute. That's an interesting limitation. I'm actually not super familiar with the background shelf stuff.Probably was talked about in the fight three release.Ryan Lopopolo: BA basically means that codex is able to spawn commands in the background and then go continue to work while it waits for them to finish. So it can spawn an expensive build and then continue reviewing the code, for example.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And this helps it be more time efficient for the user invoking the harness.swyx: And I guess and just to really nail this, like what does one minute matter? Like why not five, okay, good. We want no. WeRyan Lopopolo: want the inner loop to be as fast as possible. Okay. One minute was just a nice round number and we were able to hit it.swyx: And if it doesn't complete, it kills it or some something,Ryan Lopopolo: No.We just take that as a signal that we need to stop what we're doing, double click, decompose a build graph a bit to get us to high back under so that we [00:07:00] can able the agent continue to operate.swyx: It's almost like you're, it's like a ratchet. It's like you're forcing build time discipline, because if you don't, it'll just grow and grow.That's right. And you mentioned that my current, like the software I work on currently is at 12 minutes. It sucks.Ryan Lopopolo: This has been my experience with platform teams in the past, where you have an envelope of acceptable build times and you let it go up to breach and then you spend two, three weeks to bring it back down to the lower end of the average low bed stop.But because tokens are so cheap Yeah. And we're so insanely parallel with the model, we can just constantly be gardening this thing to make sure that we maintain these in variants, which means. There's way less dispersion in the code and the SDLC, which means we can simplify in a way and rely on a lot more in variance as we write the software.[00:07:45] Observability, Traces & Local Dev StackVibhu: Lovely.[00:07:46] Humans Are BottleneckVibhu: You mentioned in your article, like humans became the bottleneck, right? You kicked off as a team of three people. You're putting out a million line of code, like 1500 prs, basically. What's the mindset there? So as much as code is disposable, you're doing a lot of review. A lot [00:08:00] of the article talks about how you wanna rephrase everything is prompting everything, is what the agent can't see.It's kind of garbage, right? You shouldn't have it in there. So what's like the high level of how you went about building it, and then how you address okay, humans are just PR review. Like how is human in the loop for this?Ryan Lopopolo: We've moved beyond even the humans reviewing the code as well.[00:08:19] Human Review, PR Automation & Agent Code ReviewRyan Lopopolo: Most of the human review is post merge at this point.But post, post merge, that's not even reviewed. That's justswyx: Oh, let's just make ourselves happy by YouRyan Lopopolo: haven't used fundamentally. The model is trivially paralyzable, right? As many GPUs and tokens as I am willing to spend, I can have capacity to work with my hood base.The only fundamentally scarce thing is the synchronous human attention of my team. There's only so many hours in the day we have to eat lunch. I would like to sleep, although it's quite difficult to, stop poking the machine because it makes me want to feed it. You have to step back, right?Like you need to take a systems thinking mindset to things and [00:09:00] constantly be asking where is the agent making mistakes? Where am I spending my time? How can I not spend that time going forward? And then build confidence in the automation that I'm putting in place. So I have solved this part of the SDLC, and usually what that has looked like is like we started needing to pay very close attention to the code because the agent did not have the right building blocks to produce.Modular software that decomposed appropriately that was reliable and observable and actually accrued a working front end in these things, right?[00:09:35] Observability First SetupRyan Lopopolo: So in order to not spend all of our time sitting in front of a terminal at most, doing one or two things at a time, invested in giving the model that observability, which is that that graph in the post here.swyx: Yeah. Let's walk through this traces and which existed firstRyan Lopopolo: we started with just the app and the whole rest of it. From vector through to all these login metrics, APIs was, I dunno, half an [00:10:00] afternoon of my time. We have intentionally chosen very high level fast developer tools. There's a ton of great stuff out there now.We use me a bunch, which makes it trivial to pull down all these go written Victoria Stack binaries in our local development. Tiny little bit of python glue to spin all these up. And off you go. One neat thing here is we have tried to invert things as much as possible, which is instead of setting up an environment to spawn the coding agent into, instead we spawn the coding agent, like that's the entry point.It's just Codex. And then we give Codex via skills and scripts the ability to boot the stack if it chooses to, and then tell it how to set some end variables. So the app and local Devrel points at this stack that it has chosen to spin up. And this I think is like the fundamental difference between reasoning models and the four ones and four ohs of the past, where these models could not think so you had to put them in [00:11:00] boxes with a predefined set of state transitions.Whereas here we have the model, the harness be the whole box. And give it a bunch of options for how to proceed with enough context for it to make intelligent choices. SoVibhu: sales, so like a lot of that is around scaffolding, right? Yes. Previous agents, you would define a scaffold. It would operate in that.Lube, try again. That's pivoted off from when we've had reasoning models. They're seeming to perform better when you don't have a scaffold, right? That's right.[00:11:28] Docs Skills GuardrailsVibhu: And you go into like niches here too, like your SPEC MD and like having a very short agent MG Agent md.swyx: Yes. Yes.Vibhu: Yeah. So you even lay out what it is here, but I likeswyx: the table contents.Vibhu: Yeah.swyx: Like stuff like this, it really helps guide people because everyone's trying to do this.Ryan Lopopolo: This structure also makes it super cheap to put new content into the repository to steer both the humans and the agents.swyx: You, you reinvented skills, right?Vibhu: One big agents andswyx: skills from first princip holdsRyan Lopopolo: all skills did not exist when we started doing this.Vibhu: You have a short [00:12:00] one 100 line overall table of contents and then you have little skills, right? Core beliefs, MD tech tracker. Yeah. Yeah. The scale is overRyan Lopopolo: The tech jet tracker and the quality score are pretty interesting because this is basically a tiny little scaffold, like a markdown table, which is a hook for Codex to review all the business logic that we have defined in the app, assess how it matches all these documented guardrails and propose follow up work for itself.Before beads and all these ticketing systems, we were just tracking follow up work as notes in a markdown file, which, we could spa an agent on Aron to burn down. There's this really neat thing that like the models fundamentally crave text. So a lot of what we have done here is figure out ways to inject textswyx: intoRyan Lopopolo: the system right when we get a page, because we're missing a timeout, for example.I can just add Codex in Slack on that page and say, I'm gonna fix this by adding a timeout. Please update our reliability documentation. To require that all network calls have [00:13:00] timeouts. So I have not only made a point in time fix, but also like durably encoded this process knowledge around what good looks like.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And we give that to the root coding agent as it goes and does the thing. But you can also use that to distill tests out of, or a code review agent, which is pointed at the same things to narrow the acceptable universe of the code that's produced.swyx: I think one of the concerns I have with that kind of stuff is you think you're making the right call by making, it's persisted for all time across everything.Yes. But then you didn't think about the exceptions that you need to make, right? And that you have to roll it back.Vibhu: Part of it isswyx: also sometimes it can follow your s instructions too.Vibhu: It's somewhat a skill, right? So it determines when it uses the tools, right? Like it's not like it'll run outta every call.It'll determine when it wants to check quality score, right?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. And we do in the prompts we give these agents, allow them to push back,[00:13:51] Agent Code Review RulesRyan Lopopolo: When we first started adding code review agents to the pr, it would be Codex, CLI. Locally writes the change, pushes up a PR on [00:14:00] those PR synchronizations of review agent fires.It posts a comment. We instruct Codex that it has to at least acknowledge and respond to that feedback. And initially the Codex driving the code author was willing to be bullied by the PR reviewer, which meant you could end up in a situation where things were not converging. So yeah, we had to,swyx: he's just a thrash.Ryan Lopopolo: We had to add more optionality to the prompts on both of these things, right? The reviewer agents were instructed to bias toward merging the thing to not surface anything greater than a P two in priority. We didn't really define P two, but we gave it, youswyx: did define P two.Ryan Lopopolo: We gave it a framework within which to score its outputswyx: and then greater than P zero is worse, right?Yes. P two is very good.Ryan Lopopolo: P zero is you will mute the code place ifswyx: you merch thisRyan Lopopolo: thing, right?swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: But also on the code authoring agent side, we also gave it the flexibility to either defer or push back against review feedback, right? This happens all the time, right? Like I happen to notice something and leave a code review, [00:15:00] which.Could blow up the scope by a factor of two. I usually don't mean for that to be addressed Exactly. In the moment. It's more of an FYI file it to the backlog, pick it up in the next fix it week sort of thing. And without the context that this is permissible, the coding agents are gonna bias toward what they do, which is following instructions.swyx: Yeah.[00:15:19] Autonomous Merging Flowswyx: I do wanted to check in on a couple things, right? Sure. All the coding review agent, it can merge autonomously. I think that's something that a lot of people aren't comfortable with. And you have a list here of how much agents do they do Product code and tests, CI configuration and release tooling, internal Devrel tools, documentation eval, harness review, comments, scripts that manage the repository itself, production dashboard definition files, like everything.Yes. And so they're just all churning at the same time, is there like a record that, that any human on the team pulls to stop everythingRyan Lopopolo: Because we are building a native application here. We're not doing continuous deploy. So there's still a human in the loop for cutting the release branch.I see. We require a blessed [00:16:00] human approved smoke test of the app before we promote it to distribution, these sort of things.swyx: So you're working on the app, you're not building like infrastructure where you have like nines of reliability, that kinda stuff?Ryan Lopopolo: That's correct. That's correct. Okay. And also like full recognition here that all of this activity took in a completely greenfield repository.There's. Should be no script that this applies generally toswyx: this is a production thing, you're gonna shipRyan Lopopolo: toswyx: customers. Of course. Yeah, of course. So this is realVibhu: And like one of the things there is, you mentioned you started this as a repo from scratch. The onboarding first month or so was pretty, it was like working backwards, right?Yeah. And then you had to work with the system and now you're at that point where you know, you're very autonomous. I'm curious like, okay, so what, how human in the loop is it? So what are the bottlenecks that you wish you could still automate? And part of that is also like, where do you see the model trajectory improving and offloading more human in the loop?We just got 5.4. It's a really good,Ryan Lopopolo: fantastic model, by the way.Vibhu: Yeah. Yeah. It's the first one that's merged. Top tier coding. So it's codex level coding and reasoning. So general reasoning both in one model. SoRyan Lopopolo: andVibhu: computer [00:17:00] use vision.Ryan Lopopolo: Now we now with five four, I can just have Codex write the blog post, whereas for this one I had to balance between chat.swyx: Oh, I need to, I might be out of a job. Oh my God.Ryan Lopopolo: Oh,swyx: I know. You just gave me an idea for a completely AI newsletter that five four could do. Yeah, I get it Now.Ryan Lopopolo: This sort of thing is just one example of closing the loop, right? Like the dashboard thing you mentioned. We have Codex authoring the Js ON, for the Grafana dashboards and publishing them and also responding to the pages, which means when it gets the page, it knows exactly which dashboards are defined and what alerts.What alert was triggered by which exact log in the code base. ‘cause all of this stuff is collated together.swyx: It has to own everything.Yes. Yeah. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And it means that if we have an outage that did not result in a page. It has the existing set of dashboards available to it. It has the existing set of metrics and logs and can figure out where the gaps in the dashboard are or [00:18:00] in the underlying metrics and fix them in one go.In the same way, you would have a full stack engineer be able to drive a feature from the backend all the way to the front end.Vibhu: So it, it seems like a lot of the work you guys had to do was you as a small team are fully working for a way that the model wants the software to be written. It's like less human legible for better. Code legibility, agent legibility. How do you think that affects broader teams? So one at OpenAI, do liaison, like this is how software should be written. Like I can imagine, say you join a new team with this methodology, this mindset there's ways that, teams do code review, teams write code, like teams are structured and a lot of it is for human legibility.So should we all swap? Like how does this play back one broader into OpenAI and then like broader into the software engineering, right? Is it like teams that pick this up will it's pretty drastic, right? You have to make a pretty big switch. Should they just full send Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: The mindset is very much that I'm removed from the process, right? I can't really have deep code level opinions about [00:19:00] things. It's as if I'm. Group tech leading a 500 person organization.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Like it's not appropriate for me to be in the weeds on every pr. This is why that post merge code review thing is like a good analog here, right?Like I have some representative sample of the code as it is written, and I have to use that to infer what the teams are struggling with, where they could use help, where they're already moving quickly and I can pivot my focus elsewhere.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: So I don't really have too many opinions around the code as it is written.I do, however, have a command based class, which is used to have repeatable chunks of business logic that comes with tracing and metrics and observability for free. And the thing to focus on is not how that business logic is structured, but that it uses this primitive ‘cause I know that's gonna give leverage by default.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, back to that sort of systems stinking,Vibhu: and you have part of that in your blog post, enforcing architecture and ta taste how you set boundaries for what's used. There's also a section on redefining [00:20:00] engineering and stuff, but yeah, it's just, it's interesting to hear,Ryan Lopopolo: and as the models have gotten better, they have gotten better at proposing these abstractions to unblock themselves, which again, lets me move higher and higher up the stack to look deeper into the future on what ultimately blocked the team from shipping.swyx: Yeah. You mentioned so you, this is primarily a, it is like a 1 million line of code base electron app. But it manages its own services as well, so it's like a backend for front end type thing.Ryan Lopopolo: We do have a backend in there, but that's hosted in the cloud.Yeah. This sort of structure is actually within the separate main and render processesWithin theswyx: electric.That's just how electronic works.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, of course. So have also treated like. MVC style decomposition with the same level of rigor, which has been very fun.swyx: I have a fun pun. This is a tangent, NVC is model view controller. Any sort of full stack web Devrel knows that.But my AI native version of this is Model view Claw, the clause the harness.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right. That's right. I do think that there is an interesting space to [00:21:00] explore here with Codex, the harness as part of building AI products, right? There's a ton of momentum around getting the models to be good at coding.We've seen big leaps in like the task complexity with each incremental model release where if you can figure out how to collapse a product that you're trying to build, a user journey that you're trying to solve into code, it's pretty natural to use the Codex Harness to solve that problem for you. It's done all the wiring and lets you just communicate and prompts to let the model cook.Yeah. It's been very fun. And there's also a very engineering legible way of increasing capabil. It's fantastic, right? Yeah. Just give you, just give the model scripts, the same scripts you would already build for yourself.swyx: Yeah.Yeah. So for listeners, this is Ryan saying that software engineering or coding against will eat knowledge work like the non-coding parts that you would normally think.Oh, you have to build a separate agent for it. No, start a coding agent and go out from there. Which open Claw has like it's pie Underhood.Ryan Lopopolo: [00:22:00] Yes.Vibhu: Basically define your task in code. Everything is a codingswyx: agent by the way. Since I brought it up, it's probably the only place we bring it up. Is any open claw usage from you?Any?Ryan Lopopolo: No. No. Not for me. I don't have any spare Mac Minis rattling around my house.swyx: You can afford it? No. I just, I'm curious if it's changed anything in opening eye yet, but it's probably early days. And then the other, the other thing I, I wanna pull on here is like you mentioned ticketing systems and you mentioned prs and I'm wondering if both those things have to go away or be reinvented for this kind of coding.So the git itself and is like very hostile to multi-agent.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. We make very heavy use of work trees.swyx: But like even then, like I just did a, dropped a podcast yesterday with Cursors saying, and they said they're getting rid of work trees ‘cause it still has too many merge conflicts.It's still un too un unintuitive. But go ahead.Ryan Lopopolo: The models are really great at resolving merge conflicts. Yeah. And to get to a state where I'm not synchronously in the loop in my terminal, I almost don't care that there are mergeswyx: with disposable.[00:23:00] Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: We invoke a dollar land skill and that coaches codex to push the PR Wait for human and agent reviewers Wait for CI to be green.Fix the flakes if there are any merged upstream. If the PR comes into conflict, wait for everything to pass. Put it in the merge queue. Deal with flakes until it's in Maine. End. This is what it means to delegate fully, right? This is in a, very large model re probably a significant tax on humans to get PRS merged, but the agent is more than capable of doing this and I really don't have to think about it other than keep my laptop open.swyx: Yeah. I used to be much more of a control freak, but now I'm like, yeah, actually you could do a better job of this than me. Yeah. With the right context. Yes.[00:23:47] Encoding Requirementsswyx: Anything else in harness in general? Just this piece, I just wanna make sure we,Ryan Lopopolo: I think one thing that I maybe didn't make super clear in the article that I heard on Twitter as an interesting, that's respond [00:24:00]swyx: to them.What's the chatter and then what's your response?Ryan Lopopolo: Ultimately, all the things that we have encoded in docs and tests and review agents and all these things are ways to put all the non-functional requirements of building high scale, high quality, reliable software into a space that prompt injects the agent.We either write it down as docs, we add links where the error messages tell how to do the right thing. So the whole meta of the thing is to basically tease out of the heads of all the engineers on my team, what they think good looks like, what they would do by default, or what they would coach a new hire on the team to do to get things to merch.And that's why we pay attention to all the mistakes, mistakes that the agent makes, right? This is code being written that is misaligned with some as yet not written down, non-functional requirement.swyx: Sorry, what? Did the online people misunderstand orRyan Lopopolo: No,swyx: whatyouRyan Lopopolo: responded to? Somebody just literally said that.I was like, oh yeah,swyx: okay,Ryan Lopopolo: This is the [00:25:00] thing. This is what I've been doing. Oh, youswyx: agree? Yeah. I see. Interesting.Ryan Lopopolo: One other neat thing, which I did totally did not expect is folks were just. Taking the link to the article and giving it to pi or Codex and say, make my repo this,Vibhu: you achi a whole recursion.Ryan Lopopolo: And it was wildly effective. Really? It was wildly effective. NoVibhu: way. It just actually is something I tried with five, four yesterday. I didn't have time. Last time I was like out speaking of something, and this is one of my things, I was like, okay, I have this article. Can we just scaffold out what it would be like to run this?And I, I did it first as that and then I was like, okay, let me take another little side repo and say okay, if I was to fully automate this like this because I haven't written a line of code, it'sRyan Lopopolo: like over full, setVibhu: it right. The side thing I'm doing of voice. TTS I'm just like, slobbing out, whatever.It's nothing production. I'm like, how would I make this like this? And it's actually like a really good way. It's like a good way to learn what could be changed, what could be like, it's just a good analyzing, right? You give it all the codes, you give it all the context, you give it the article and it walks you through it very well.That's right. That's right.[00:25:57] Inlining Dependencies[00:25:57] Dependencies Going Away & Brett Taylor's Responseswyx: I guess one more thing before we go to Symphony is I wanted to cover [00:26:00] Brett Taylor's response. We had him on the show. He is your chairman, which is wild. Yeah. That he's reading your articles as well and like getting engaged in it. He says software dependencies are going away.Basically they can just be like vendored. Yes. Response.Ryan Lopopolo: Aswyx: hundred percent. A hundred percent agree. You still pro qr, you still pay Datadog. You still pay Temporal. Thank you.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep. The level of complexity of the dependencies that we can internalize is, I would say low, medium right now. Just based on model capability.What does the,swyx: what is medium?Ryan Lopopolo: I would say like a. A couple thousand line dependency is a thing that we could in-house No problem. Call in an afternoon of time. One neat thing about it is like probably most of that code you don't even need. Like by in-house and abstraction, you can strip away all the generic parts of it and only focus on what you need to enable the specific thing.Yes. You're building,swyx: I've been calling this the end of b******t plugins.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.swyx: Because there's so much when I published an open source thing, I want to accept everything, be liberal. I want to accept, this is post's law, but that means there's so much bloat. Yes. There's so much overhead.Ryan Lopopolo: One other neat thing about [00:27:00] this too is when we deploy Codex Security on the repo, it is able to deeply review and change. The internalized dependencies in a much lower friction way than it would be to like, push patches upstream, wait for them to be released, pull them down, make sure that's compatible with all the transitive I have in my repo and things like that.So it's also much lower friction to internalize some of these things if code is free. ‘cause the tokens are cheap sort of thing.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. I think like the only argument I have against this is basically scale testing, which obviously the larger pieces of software like Linux, MySQL, he calls up even the Datadog and Temporals and then maybe security testing where Yes.Classically, I think, is it linis tos, it said security open source is the best disinfectant.Ryan Lopopolo: Many eyes.swyx: Many eyes. And if inline your dependencies and code them up, you're gonna have to relearn mistakes from other people that Yep.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep. And to internalize that dependency, you're back to zero and you have to start.Reassembling all those bits and pieces to Yeah. Have [00:28:00] high confidence in the code as it is written. Yeah.Vibhu: Even part of the first intro of this, you basically mentioned like everything was written by codex, including internal tooling, right? So internal tooling, like when you're visualizing what's going on it's writing it for itself.swyx: Yeah. I'm built internal tools way I now, and like I just show them off and they're like, how long did you spend? And I didn't spend any time. I just prompted it,Ryan Lopopolo: very funny story here.swyx: Yeah, go ahead.Ryan Lopopolo: We had deployed our app to the first dozen users internally had some performance issues, so we asked them to export a trace for us get a tar ball, gave it to our on-call engineer, and he did a fantastic job of working with Codex to build this beautiful local Devrel tool, next JS app, the drag and drop the tar ball in, and it visualizes the entire trace.It's fantastic. Took an afternoon, but none of this was necessary. Because you could just spin up codex and give it the tar ball and ask the same thing and get the response immediately. So in a way, optimizing for human [00:29:00] legibility of that debugging process was wrong. It kept him in the loop unnecessarily when instead he could have just like Codex cooked for five minutes and gotten this same.swyx: Yeah, you verify your instincts here of this is how we used to do it. Or this is how I would have used to solve it.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. In this local observability stack. Like sure, you can de deploy Yeager to visualize the traces, but I wouldn't expect to be looking at the traces in the first place because I'm not gonna write the code to fix them.swyx: Yeah. So basically there needs to be like this kind of house stack and owning the whole loop. I think that is very well established. And it sounds like you might be like sharing more about that in the future, right?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. I think we're excited to do[00:29:36] Ghost Libraries Specs[00:29:36] Ghost Libraries & Distributing Software as SpecsRyan Lopopolo: We're gonna talk about Symphony in a little bit, but like the way we distribute it as a spec, which I think folks are calling Ghost Libraries on Twitter.This is like a such a cool name. It does mean it becomes much cheaper to share software with the world, right? You define a spec, how you could build your own specifying as much as is required for a coding agent to reassemble it [00:30:00] locally. The flow here is very cool. Like we have taken. All the scaffolding that has existed in our proprietary repo spun up a new one.Ask Codex with our repo as a reference. Write the spec. We tell it. Spin up a team ox spawn a disconnected codex to implement the spec. Wait for it to be done. Spawn another codex and another team ox to review the spec com or review the implementation compared to upstream and update the spec so it diverges less.And then you just loop over and over Ralph style until you get a spec that is with high fidelity able to reproduce the system as it is. It's fantastic.Vibhu: And you're basically, you're not really adding any of your human bias in there, right? That's correct. A lot of times people write a spec and be like, okay, I think it should be done this way, and you'll riff on something.And it's no, the agent could have just handled it like you're still scaffolding in a sense, right? I want it done this way. It can determine its spec better.swyx: That's right. That's right. Part of me it, I'm, I've been working a lot on evals recently, and part of me is wondering if [00:31:00] an agent can produce a spec that it cannot solve.Is it always capable of things that he can imagine or can you imagine things that it is impossible to do?Ryan Lopopolo: I think with Symphony, we, there's like this there's this axis where you have things that are easier, hard, or established or new, right? And I think things that are hard and new is still something that the models need humans.Yeah. Drive.swyx: Yeah. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: But I think those other quadrants are largely salt. Given the right scaffold and the right thing that's gonna drive the agent to completion,swyx: it's crazy that it solved,Ryan Lopopolo: but it means that the humans, the ones with limited time and attention get to work on the hardest stuff, like the problems where it's pure white space out in front. Or like the deepest refactorings where you don't know what the proper shape of the interfaces are. And this is where I wanna spend my time. ‘cause it lets me set up for the next level of scale.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Let's introduce Symphony.I think we've been mentioning it every now and then. Elixir. Interesting option.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.swyx: Yeah. I'm not,Ryan Lopopolo: again, like the [00:32:00] elixir manifestation here is just a derivative. Is it a modelswyx: chosen? Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Yeah. And it chose that because the process supervision and the gen servers are super amenable to the type of process orchestration that we're doing here.You are essentially spinning up little Damons for every task that is in execution and driving it to completion, which. Means the mall gets a ton of stuff for free by using Elixir and the Beam.swyx: I had to go do a crash course in Beam and Elixir, and I think most people are not operating at that scale of concurrency where you need that.But it is a good mental model for Resum ability and all those things. And these are things I care about. But tell me the story, the origin story of Symphony. What do you use it for? Is this, how did it form maybe any abandoned paths that you didn't take?[00:32:46] Terminal Free Orchestration[00:32:46] Symphony: Removing Humans from the LoopRyan Lopopolo: At the end of December we were at about three and a half PRS per engineer per day.This was before five two came out in the beginning of January. Everyone gets back from holiday with five two and no other work [00:33:00] on the repository. We were up in the five to 10 PRS per day per engineer. And I don't know about y'all, but like it's very taxing to constantly be switching like that. Like I was pretty tapped out at the end of the day, again, where are the humans spending their time? They're spending their time context switching between all these active tmox pains to drive the agent forward.swyx: Yeah. No way. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: So let's again, build something to remove ourselves from the loop. And this is what frantic sprinted adapt here to find a way to remove the need for the human to sit in front of their terminal.So a lot of experimentation with Devrel boxes and, automatically spinning up agents, like it seems like a fantastic end state here, where my life is beach. I open live twice a day and say yes no to these things. Yeah. And this is again, a super, super interesting framing for how the work is done.Because I become more latency and sensitive. I have [00:34:00] way less attachment to the code as it is written. Like I've had close to zero investment in the actual authorship experience. So if it's garbage. I can just throw it away and not care too much about it. In Symphony, there's this like rework state where once the PR is proposed and it's escalated to the human for review, it should be a cheap review.It is either mergeable or it is not. And if it's not, you move it to rework. The elixir service will completely trash the entire work tree NPR and start it again from scratch. Okay. And this is that opportunity again to say, why was it trash right? What did the agent do that wasswyx: bad. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Fix that before moving the ticket toswyx: endRyan Lopopolo: of progress again.swyx: Yeah. Why is this not in codex app? I guess this, you guys are ahead of Codex app,Ryan Lopopolo: yeah, so the way the team has been working is basically to be as AI pilled as possible and spread ahead. And a lot of the things we have worked on have fallen out [00:35:00] into a lot of the products that we have.Like we were in deep consultation with the Codex team to. Have the Codex app be a thing that exists, right? To have skills be a thing that Codex is able to use. So we didn't have to roll our own to put automations into the product. So all of our automatic refactoring agents didn't have to be these hand rolled control loops.It has been really fantastic to be, in a way, un anchored to the product development of Frontier and Codex and just very quickly try to figure out what works and then later find the scalable thing that can be deployed widely. It's been a very fun way to operate. It's certainly chaotic. I have lost track very often of what the actual state of the code looks like.‘cause I'm not in the loop. There was. One point where we had wired playwright directly up to the Electron app. With MCPM CCPs, I'm pretty bearish on because the harness forcibly injects all those tokens in the [00:36:00] context, and I don't really get a say over it. They mess with auto compaction. The agent can forget how to use the tool.There's probably only what three calls in playwright that I actually ever want to use. So I pay the cost for a ton of things. Somebody vibed a local Damon that boots playwright and exposes a tiny little shim CLI to drive it. And I had zero idea that this had occurred because to me, I run Codex and it's able to, it's oh, it's better.Yeah. Like no knowledge of this at all. Uhhuh.[00:36:30] Multi Human ChaosRyan Lopopolo: So we have had like in human space to spend a lot of time doing synchronous knowledge sharing. We have a daily standup that's 45 minutes long because we almost have to. Fan out the understanding of the current state.swyx: Yeah, I was gonna say this is good for a single human multi-agent, but multi human, multi-agent is a whole like po like explosion of stuff.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. And that this is fundamentally why we have such a rigid, like 10,000 [00:37:00] engineer level architecture in the app because we have to find ways to carve up the space so people are not trampling on each other.swyx: Sorry, I don't get the 10,000 thing. Did I miss that?Ryan Lopopolo: The structure of the repository is like 500 NPM packages.It's like architecture to the excess for what you would consider, I think normal for a seven person team. But if every person is actually like 10 to 50. Then the like numbers on being super, super deep into decomposition and sharding and like proper interface boundaries make a lot more sense.swyx: Yeah. To me, that's why I talked about Microfund ends and I, an anex is from that world, but Cool. It is just coming back to, to, to this I dunno if you have other, thoughts on. Orchestrating so much work coin going through this. Is this enough? Is this like any aha moments?Vibhu: It'll be interesting to see like where, okay, so right now you pick linear as your issue tracker, right?swyx: Or it's like a is it actually linear? This is actually linear.[00:37:55] Linear vs Slack WorkflowVibhu: Oh, that's linear. It's linear.swyx: Oh I never looked atVibhu: video. The demo video I had to download to [00:38:00] run.swyx: So I, because I'm a Slack maxie, but Yeah, linear. Linear is also really good. Yes,Ryan Lopopolo: we do make a good use of Slack. We we fire off codex to do all these lotion, elasticity, fix ups, the things that like sync that knowledge into the repository.It's super cheap. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Just do it in Codex.swyx: My biggest plug is OpenAI needs to build Slack. You need to own Slack. Build yours. Turn this into Slack.Ryan Lopopolo: I did read about it. Youswyx: did?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.[00:38:25] Collaboration Tools for AgentsRyan Lopopolo: I would say that if we think that we want these agents to do economically valuable work, which is like this is the mission, right?We want AI to be deployed widely, to do economically valuable work, then we need to find ways for them to naturally collaborate with humans, which means collaboration tooling, I think, is an interesting space to explore.swyx: Yeah, totally. Yeah. GitHub, slack, linear.Vibhu: Yeah, that was my thing. Okay, where do we see right now Codex has started Codex Model, then CLI, now there's an app, app can let me shoot off multiple Codex is in parallel, but there's no great team collaboration for Codex.And it [00:39:00] seems like your team had some say into what comes out, right? So you talked to ‘em, codex kind of was a thing. From there, if you guys are on the bound, what stuff that like, you might not focus on, but what do you expect other people to be building, right? So people that are like five x 50 Xing.Should you build stuff that's like very niche for your workflow, for your team? Should it be more general so other people can adopt? Is there a niche there? ‘Cause part of it is just okay, is everything just internal tooling? Do we have everything our own way? Like the way our team operates has our own ways that we like to communicate or is there a broader way to do it?Is it something like a issue tracker? Just thoughts if you wanna riff on that.[00:39:35] Standardizing Skills and CodeRyan Lopopolo: I think TBD we have not figured this out in a general way. I do think that there is leverage to be had in making the code and the processes as much the same as possible. If you think that code is context, code is prompts, it's better from the agent behavior perspective to be able to look in a package in directory X, Y, Z, and it not to have to page so [00:40:00] deeply into directory if you C, because they have the same structure, use the same language, they have the same patterns internally.And that same like leverage comes from aligning on a single set of skills that you're pouring every engineer's taste into to make sure that the agent is effective. So like in our code base, we have, I think, six skills. That's it. And if some part of the software development loop is not being covered, our first attempt is to encode it in one of the existing setup skills, which means that we can change the agent behavior.Yeah. More cheaply than changing the human driver behavior.swyx: Yeah.[00:40:39] Self Improvement via Logsswyx: Have you ever, have you experimented with agents changing their own behavior?Ryan Lopopolo: We do.swyx: Yeah. Or parent agent changing a subagents, behavior or something like that.Ryan Lopopolo: We have some bits for skill distillation. So for example, there's one neat thing you can do with Codex, which is just point it at its own session logs to ask it to tell you how you can use [00:41:00] the tool pedal better.swyx: It's like introspectionRyan Lopopolo: or ask it to do things. I useVibhu: this session better. What skills should Iswyx: high? I like the modification of, you can do, just do things to you can just ask agent to do things.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. You can just codex things. This is like a, this is like a silly emoji that we have, right? You can just codex things, you can just prompt things.It's really glorious future we live in, but okay, you can do that one-on-one. But we're actually slurping these up for the entire team into blob storage and. Running agent loops over them every day to figure out where as a team can we do better and how do we reflect that back into the repositories?Yes, though everybody benefits from everybody else's behavior for free. Same for like PR comments, right? These are all feedback. That means the code as written, deviated from what was good, a PR comment, a failed build. These are all signals that mean at some point the agent was missing context. We gotta figure out how toswyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Slurp it up and put it back in the reboot.swyx: By the way, I do this exactly right. I used to, when I use cloud code for [00:42:00] knowledge work, cloud cowork is like a nice product, right? Yes. In I think you would agree. I always have it tell me what do I do better next time? And that's the meta programming reflection thing.So I almost think like you have six reflection extraction levels in symphony and almost like the zero of layer. So the six levels are PO policy, configuration, coordination, execution, integration, observability. We've talked about a couple of these, but the zero layer is like the, okay, are we working well?Can we improve how we work? Yes. Can I modify my own workflow without MD or something? I don't know.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course you can. Like this thing is also able to cut its own tickets ‘cause we give it full access.Yeah. Make it a ticket to have it cut. Tickets you can.Put in the ticket that you expect it to file as on follow up work,swyx: like Yeah. Self-modifying. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.[00:42:44] Tool Access and CLI FirstRyan Lopopolo: Put, don't put the agent in a box. Give the agent full accessibility over it. Domain.swyx: I had a mental reaction when you said don't put the agent in a box. So I think you should put it in a box. Like it's just that you're giving the box everything it needs.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Context and tools.swyx: But we're like, as developers, we're used to calling [00:43:00] out to different systems, but here you use the open source things like the Prometheus, whatever, and you run it locally so that you can have the full loop. I assume.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep.Vibhu: I think likeRyan Lopopolo: another, you wanna minimize cloud, cloud dependencies.Vibhu: You also want to make sure that you think about what the agent has access to. What does it see? Does it go back into the loop, like from the most basic sense of you let it see its own like calls, traces it can determine where it went wrong. But are you feeding that back in? So you know, just the most basic level of you wanna see exactly what's input output, like does the agent have access to.What is being outputted, right? It can self-improve a lot of these things. It's allRyan Lopopolo: text, right? My job is to figure out ways to funnel text from one agent to the other.swyx: It's so strange like way back at the start of this whole AI wave Andre was like, English is the hottest day programming language.It's here, it's just Yeah. The feature as well.Vibhu: A lot of, okay. Like a lot of software, a lot of stuff. There's a gui, it's made for the human. We're seeing the evolution of CLI for everything, right? All tools have CLIs. Your agents can use [00:44:00] them well, do we get good vision? Do we get good little sandboxes?Like right now? It's a really effective way, right? Models love to use tools. They love the best. They love to read through text. So slap a CLI let it go loose. That works for everything.Ryan Lopopolo: It does. Yeah. Yeah.[00:44:14] UI Perception and RasterizingRyan Lopopolo: We've also been adapting nont, textual things to that shape in order to improve model behavior in some ways, right?We want the agent to be able to see the UI agents do not perceive visually in the same way that we do. They don't see a red box, they see red box button, right? They see these things in latent space. So if we want, Hey, yeah, I do. We haveswyx: a ding if that goes off every time. Alien spaceRyan Lopopolo: ding.Anyway if we wanna actually make it see the layout, it's almost easier to rasterize that image to ask EOR and feed it in to the agent. Ha. And there's no reason you can't do both, right? To like further refine how the model perceives the object it's [00:45:00] manipulating.swyx: Cool. Could we, you wanna talk about a couple more of these layers that might bear more introspection or that you have personal passion for?[00:45:07] Coordination Layer with ElixirRyan Lopopolo: I will say that the coordination layer here was a really tricky piece to get right.swyx: Let's do it. Yep. I'm all about that. And this is Temporal core.Ryan Lopopolo: This is where when we turn the spec into Elixir, where like the model takes a shortcut, right? Like it's oh, I have all these primitives that I can make use of in this lovely runtime that has native process supervision.Which is I think, a neat way to have taken the spec and made it more choices achievable by making choices that naturally mapswyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: To the domain, right? In the same way that like you would prefer to have a TypeScript model repo if you are doing full stack web development, right? Because the ability to share types across the front end and backend reduces a lot of complexity.And becauseswyx: that's what graph kill used to be.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right. Andswyx: I don't know if it's still alive, butRyan Lopopolo: [00:46:00] no humans in the loop here. So like my own personal ability to write or not write elixir. Doesn't really have to bias us away from using the right tool for the job. It is just wild.swyx: Love it. I love it.Yeah. I wonder if any languages struggle more than others because of this? I feel like everyone has their own abstractions. That would make sense. But maybe it might be slower, it might be more faulty where like you'd have to just kick the server every now and then. I, I don't know. I think observability layer is really well understood.Integration layer, CP is dead. I think all these just like a really interesting hierarchy to travel up and down. It's common language for people working on the system to understandRyan Lopopolo: The policy stuff is really cool, right? Yeah. You don't really have to build a bunch of code to make sure the system wait for the, to passswyx: it's institutional knowledge.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. You just give it the G-H-C-L-I with some text that say CI has to pass. It makes the maintenance of these systems a lot easier.[00:46:57] Agent Friendly CLI Outputswyx: Do you think that CLI maintainers need to be [00:47:00] do anything special for agents or just as is? It's good because like I don't think when people made the G GitHub, CLI, they anticipated this happening.Ryan Lopopolo: That's correct. The GH CLI is fantastic. It's great super industry.swyx: Everyone go try GH repo create GH pull and then pull request number, right? GH HPR, like 1 53, whatever. And then it like pullsRyan Lopopolo: basically my only interaction with the GitHub web UI at this point is GH PR view dash web.Exactly. Glanceswyx: at the diffRyan Lopopolo: and be like Sure thing. Send it. Yeah. But the CLI are nice ‘cause they're super token efficient and they can be made more token efficient really easily. Like I'm sure you all have seen like I go to build Kite or Jenkins and I could just get this massive wall of build output.And in order to unblock the humans, your developer productivity team is almost certainly gonna write some code that parses the actual exception out of the build logs and sticks it in a sticky note at the top of the page. And you basically [00:48:00] want CLI to be structured in a similar way, right? You're gonna want to patch dash silent to prettier because the agent doesn't care that every file was already formatted.Just wants to know it's either formatted or not. So it can then go run a right command. Similarly, like in our PNPM distributed script runner, when we had one, when you do dash recursive, like it produces a absolute mountain of text. But all of that is for passing. Test suites. So we ended up wrapping all of this in another scriptswyx: to suppress the,Ryan Lopopolo: which you can vibe the channel only output the failing parts of the tests.swyx: You make a pipe errors versus the standard, standard out. I don't know. Okay. Whatever. Too much thinking have to do that. The CII used to maintain SCLI for my company and yeah, this is like core, very core to my heart. But you're vibing my job.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right.swyx: Cool. Any other things?This is a long spec. [00:49:00] I appreciate that. It's got a lot of strong opinions in here. Any other things that we should highlight? I think obviously you can spend the whole day going through some of these, but I do think that some of these have a lot of care or some of this you might wanna tell people, Hey, take this, but, make it your own.[00:49:15] Blueprint Spec and GuardrailsRyan Lopopolo: Fundamentally, software is made more flexible when it's able to adapt to the environment in which it is deployed, which means that things like linear or GitHub even are specified within the spec, but not required pieces of it. There's like a more platonic ideal of the thing that you could swap in like Jira or Bitbucket, for example.But being able to tightly specify things like the ID formats or how the Ralph Loop works for the individual agents. Basically means you can get up and running with a fully specified system quickly that you then evolve later on. I think we never intended for this to be a static spec that you can [00:50:00] never change.It's more like a blueprint to get something worth a starting point up and running.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: For you then to vibe later to your heart's content,swyx: you have like code and scripts in here where it's oh, I think this is a really good prompt. It's just a very long prompt.Ryan Lopopolo: Fundamentally, the agents are good at following instructions, so give them instructions.And it will, improve the reliability of the result. We, much like the way we use Symphony, we don't want folks to have to monitor the agent as it is vibing the system into existence. So being very opinionatedVery strict around what these success criteria are means that our deployment success rate goes up. Yeah. It means we don't have to get tickets on this thing.Vibhu: Think it all goes back to that like code to disposable, right? Like early on when you had CLI or you'd kick off a Codex run, it would take two hours. You would wanna monitor okay, I'm in the workflow of just using one.I don't want it to go down the wrong path. I'll cut it off and, just shoot off four, like that was my favorite thing of the Codex app, right? Yeah. Just Forex it like, [00:51:00] it's okay. One of them will probably be right, one of them might be better. Stop overthinking it. Like my first example was probably like deep research.When you put out deep research and I'd ask it something like, I asked it something about LLM, it thought it was legal something and spent an hour, came back with a report completely off the rails. And I was like, okay, I gotta monitor this thing a bit. No don't monitor it. Just you want to build it so it's that it, it goes the right way.And you don't wanna, you don't wanna sit there and babysit, right? You don't want to babysit your agentsRyan Lopopolo: with that deep research query that you made. Looking at the bad result, you probably figured out you needed to tweak your prompt Yeah. A bit, right? That's that guardrail that you fed back into the code base for the task, your prompt to further align the agent's execution.Same sort of concept supply there too.swyx: When you talk, how are the customers feelingRyan Lopopolo: for Symphony? I think we have none, right? This is a thing we have put out into theswyx: world. Symphony's internal, right? As long as you are happy, you are the customer. That'

This weeks episode sees me sitting down for a conversation with the fantastic Alexander Carson. Based in Norwich and working between Norwich and London , Alexander Carson is a non-binary singer-songwriter and composer whose music blends classical discipline with modern lyrical introspection. Classically trained from the age of four, Carson's sound has been described as somewhere between Chopin & Rufus Wainwright, pairing intricate piano work with a distinctive, fragile vocal timbre.Their writing balances existential weight with surrealist wit, inspired by what they describe as "the mundanity of modernity" and an urge to articulate the absurdity of human existence without ever becoming self-serious.Don't forget to check out the ever evolving Spotify playlist of Norwich bands material compiled by pod producer Reuben Andrews called La musique de Norwich.chin chin

In this episode, we're joined by Tricia Walker, who co-wrote the song covered by The Corrs, 'Looking in the Eyes of Love', a track closely connected to the writing and production era of Talk on Corners.Tricia takes us back to her roots in Mississippi, growing up along Highway 61 in the heart of the Delta. Classically trained and raised on soul, blues, and gospel, she shares how an early love of music and poetry led her to pursue songwriting seriously. In 1980, she packed up and moved to Nashville, entering a music industry that operated long before email, digital demos, or social media.We explore what Nashville was like in the 1980s and 1990s, how the co writing culture worked, and how songs were pitched, recorded, and circulated in a pre-digital world.At the centre of our conversation is the song 'Looking in the Eyes of Love', originally intended for Talk on Corners but ultimately not included on the final track list. The song would, thankfully for us, find its official release as a bonus track on In Blue in the year 2000. Tricia shares with us how the song came to be written, what it was like to see it covered by a number of artists in the industry, and we discuss how it eventually became part of The Corrs story.At 00:21:46, you can hear a clip of the original 1989 female vocal demo for 'Looking in the Eyes of Love' as sung by Tricia Walker.At 00:37:39, you can hear a clip of the Corrs version of the song as released on the special edition of 'In Blue'.A photo of the Grammy Award certificate Tricia has hung proudly on her wall can be seen at the following link HERETricia's website can be found at: www.bigfrontporch.com and her work with Delta Deep Roots can be seen and heard via www.deltadeeproots.comThis work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License.CorrsCast.comInstagramTwitterFacebookDiscordPatreon#CorrsCast on social media.#TheCorrsPlease subscribe, rate and review CorrsCast on iTunes or a platform of your choosing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and Boyce College, joins us to discuss the changes happening in today's college and seminary students, the profound benefits of classical Christian education, and the cultural shifts higher education is experiencing.This biblically grounded conversation will encourage parents, educators, and future leaders about the next generation who are being equipped to faithfully serve the church and engage the world. 

Abstract: In this episode, Elizabeth and Karin discuss how to write an academic book review in a rigorous manner. They discuss this based on the recent academic book review Karin wrote of Michael Jackson's Radical Aesthetic by Willa Stillwater. REFERENCE AS: Merx, Karin, and Elizabeth Amisu. “Episode 89 – How to Write an Academic Book Review” Podcast, Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation, 13 no. 3 (2026). Published electronically 21/02/26. https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/episode-89-how-to-write-an-academic-book-review The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies asks that you acknowledge The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies as the source of our Content; if you use material from The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies online, we request that you link directly to the stable URL provided. If you use our content offline, please credit the source as follows: “Courtesy of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies.” All content is copyright-protected. Any unauthorised reproduction, redistribution, or use for artificial intelligence, machine learning, or automated data collection is strictly prohibited. Episode 89 – How to Write an Academic Book ReviewBy Elizabeth Amisu & Karin Merx Elizabeth Amisu, PGCE, MA, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies and author of The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. Find out more about Elizabeth here. Karin Merx, BMus, MA Art History, BA Cultural Philosophy, Classically trained Artist, Classically trained Musician, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, and author of  A festive parade of highlights. La Grande Parade as evaluation of the museum policy of Edy De Wilde at the Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam, published with academic publisher Eburon. Find out more about Karin here. Our References and Where to Easily Find Them: Karin Merx, 'Academic Book Review - Michael Jackson's Radical Aesthetic', The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, vol 12, 1 (https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/academic-book-review-michael-jacksons-radical-aesthetic/) Willa Stillwater, Michael Jackson's Radical Aesthetic, vol 1 & vol 2 (Routledge, 2026).

Coming all the way from Gaithersburg, Maryland (self-proclaimed “most exciting city in the world”… briefly), Adele Marie joins Graham for a conversation that moves effortlessly between playfulness and depth.Adele describes herself as a multimedia artist — but that only scratches the surface. Classically trained in voice, working full-time as a music therapist with traumatised teenagers, improviser at heart, disco-egg enthusiast, rescuer of mannequins from the patriarchy — she is the very definition of creatively unboxed.In this episode, they explore:Why improvisation feels like meditationThe tension between structure and freedom in musicBurnout, creativity, and laying under treesWhether great songs only exist because of one exact moment in timeThe strange pressure artists face in the social media ageAnd why sometimes limitations are the birthplace of originalityThere's talk of jazz brain scans, Kurt Cobain, Lego, Daniel Johnston, and the myth that artists must neatly categorise themselves for platforms that prefer tidy labels.Adele reflects on the way songs evolve once they're shared — how audiences can sometimes be “where you were three months ago,” and how art changes forever once it leaves you.As always, Graham brings curiosity, gentle provocation, and the reminder that music doesn't just appear from a box in the corner of the room — real people make it, in real moments, from real experience.If you've ever wondered how spontaneity, therapy, seriousness, silliness, and vulnerability can all live inside one artist… this conversation is for you.Listen. Support independent musicians. Buy them a coffee. Or at the very least, a can of Goya.Welcome to My Music.

From functional ingredients and plant-based innovations to bold global flavors, today's consumers are hungry for products that tell a story and fit their lifestyle. Savvy bakers who keep a finger on the pulse of the newest bakery trends (https://bakerpedia.com/top-trends-to-look-for-in-2026/) can pivot quickly, surprise their customers, and turn everyday baked goods into must-have indulgences. In this episode of BAKED in Science, host Mark Floerke is joined by master baker Richard Charpentier to discuss continued and upcoming trends for the year ahead. Richard Charpentier has over 35 years of extensive bakery experience in snacks and breads. Classically trained as a French baker and Certified Master Baker, he has gone on to include bakery science, grain milling and food history in his repertoire. He is currently the CEO of Baking Innovation (https://baking-innovation.com), finding practical uses for emerging innovations and technologies. Top Trends in Baking While discuss trends for the coming year, some topics covered include: High-protein baking Gut health Artisan baking Plant-based formulations Sugar reduction Clean-label baking Sustainability Innovating with texture Gluten-free Artificial intelligence in the bakery

Abstract: In this episode, Karin and Elizabeth go back to last year, discuss the present and give some insight into the future. We discuss the essays, podcast episodes and the columns published in the past year. REFERENCE AS: Merx, Karin, and Elizabeth Amisu. “Episode 88 – Past, Present, Future Book 8” Podcast, Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation, 13 no. 2 (2026). Published electronically 21/01/26. https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/episode-88-past-present-future-book-8 The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies asks that you acknowledge The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies as the source of our Content; if you use material from The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies online, we request that you link directly to the stable URL provided. If you use our content offline, please credit the source as follows: “Courtesy of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies.” All content is copyright-protected. Any unauthorised reproduction, redistribution, or use for artificial intelligence, machine learning, or automated data collection is strictly prohibited. Episode 88 – Past, Present, Future Book 8By Elizabeth Amisu & Karin Merx Elizabeth Amisu, PGCE, MA, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies and author of The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson: His Music, His Persona, and His Artistic Afterlife. Find out more about Elizabeth here. Karin Merx, BMus, MA Art History, BA Cultural Philosophy, Classically trained Artist, Classically trained Musician, is editor of The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, and author of  A festive parade of highlights. La Grande Parade as evaluation of the museum policy of Edy De Wilde at the Stedelijk Museum Amsterdam, published with academic publisher Eburon. Find out more about Karin here. Our References and Where to Easily Find Them: Karin Merx & Elizabeth Amisu, 'Michael Jackson's Dream Lives On: An Academic Conversation', The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/podcasts/Kerry Hennigan, MJstudies Today, The Journal of Michael Jackson Academic Studies, https://michaeljacksonstudies.org/mj-studies-today/Discover the dangerous ideas behind his music, persona, and legacy in this online course, based on the acclaimed book The Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson. Enrol today at: Teaching Michael Jackson Studies Online Course – https://onlineartseducation.co.uk/course/teaching-michael-jackson-studies-online-course/ Dangerous Philosophies of Michael Jackson Online Course – https://onlineartseducation.co.uk/course/dangerous-philosophies-of-michael-jackson-online-course/ Introduction to Michael Jackson Studies Online Course – https://onlineartseducation.co.uk/course/introduction-to-michael-jackson-studies-online-course/

"Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey and special guest, Anabella LenzuIn this episode of  "Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey interviews Anabella Lenzu, a teacher, choreographer, and author, who shares her journey from Argentina to New York City and her experiences in the dance world and insights on dance education. They discuss the importance of education in dance, the emotional connection to movement, and the role of mentorship. Anabella emphasizes the need for self-discovery, the influence of cultural backgrounds , and the courage required to pursue artistry. The conversation the significance of emotional expression in performance. Anabella Lenzu, originally from Argentina, is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with 35 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama, which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC.As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.Anabella's work has been seen at La Mama, Baryshnikov Arts Center, Movement Research at Judson Church, Draftworks at DanceSpace project/ St. Mark Church, 92nd Street Y, The Consulate of Argentina in NYC, among many others. She holds a MFA in Fine Arts (concentration in Choreography) from Wilson College, PA. Classically trained at the renowned Teatro Colòn in Buenos Aires, Lenzu studied the modern dance techniques of Humphrey/Limòn and Graham in New York. Her studies of Tango and the folkdances of Argentina, Spain, and Italy, further inform her work. Lenzu founded her own dance school L'Atelier Centro Creativo de Danza in 1994 in Argentina, and as an educator for more than 30 years, she has been teaching in more than 50 institutions, including universities, professional dance studios, companies, festivals, and symposiums in the USA, Canada, Ireland, Egypt, Australia, Panamá, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, London, and Italy.In 2023, Anabella received the National Award for Outstanding Leadership in the Independent Sector by NDEO (National Dance Education Organization) and in 2022, the Innovative Dance Educator Award by NYSDEA (New York State Dance Education Association), acknowledging her work as a dance educator who develops innovative pedagogy in the dance field, groundbreaking teachings that have a significant impact on dance, as well as an established record of exemplary leadership on the state and national level in USA.Lenzu has written for various dance and arts magazines and published her first book in 2013, entitled Unveiling Motion and Emotion. The book contains writings in Spanish and English on the importance of dance, community, choreography, and dance pedagogy. Her second book, Teaching Dance through Meaningful Gestures (2025), explores how technique is a philosophy and a theory, and how the body is an instrument for expression. In October 2024, Anabella was appointed president of the American Dance Guild, dedicated to supporting artists and bringing the dance community together since 1956. Currently, Lenzu conducts classes at NYU Gallatin, the School of Visual Arts, and Peridance Center. From 2020 to the present, she created and directed the Online Choreographic Mentorship Program.For more information on Anabellahttps://www.anabellalenzu.com/“Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey "Where the Dance World Connects, the Conversations Inspire, and Where We Are Keeping Them Real."⁠https://dancetalkwithjoannecarey.com/⁠Please leave us a Review.Please help support the podcast:⁠https://gofund.me/e561b42ac⁠Follow Joanne Carey on Instagram @DanceTalkwithJoanne Carey

Kirsten Agresta Copely is a two-time GRAMMY®-nominated, international award-winning harpist and composer based in New York City whose career spans the worlds of classical, contemporary, and popular music. Her latest album, Kuruvinda, is nominated for Best New Age, Ambient, or Chant Album at the 2026 GRAMMY® Awards, following the success of her 2023 GRAMMY®-nominated release Aquamarine. With more than 12 million streams on Spotify and steady airplay on SiriusXM's Spa Channel, Copely has been featured in PEOPLE, The New York Post, Crain's New York Business, and beyond. Classically trained, she debuted as a concerto soloist at Carnegie Hall, performed world premieres at Lincoln Center, and toured internationally from a young age, while also becoming one of the industry's most sought-after harpists for recordings, film, and television. Her performance career includes appearances at the White House with Beyoncé, the MET Gala, Saturday Night Live, The Tonight Show, Madison Square Garden, the Hollywood Bowl, and collaborations with artists such as Jay-Z, Florence + The Machine, Sting, Kacey Musgraves, Erykah Badu, Tony Bennett and Enya. As a composer and recording artist, her four solo albums have earned global acclaim and multiple international awards, with her music praised for its cinematic, luminous, and deeply restorative qualities. Copely previously served as Associate Professor of Harp at Vanderbilt University's Blair School of Music and is a member of ASCAP, the Recording Academy, and the World Harp Congress Board of Directors. Kirsten Agresta Copely, https://www.kirstencopelymusic.com/ https://www.instagram.com/kcopelymusic https://album.link/s/1hQTm5LkykSvxIpPnXHFB1 Natalie Brown, host of Sounds Heal Podcast: http://www.soundshealstudio.com http://www.facebook.com/soundshealstudio http://www.instagram.com/nataliebrownsoundsheal http://www.youtube.com/soundshealstudio Email: soundshealstudio@gmail.com Music by Natalie Brown, Hope & Heart http://www.youtu.be/hZPx6zJX6yA

Today was the final PMQs of the year – and it was certainly not a classic. It is customary for the Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition to make some attempt at Christmas cheer by telling jokes at the despatch box, but this year's zingers were awful. Despite a promising start from Keir Starmer, it soon degenerated into quips about whether the Prime Minister has ‘the baubles' and whether Kemi Badenoch will be ‘Home Alone'. None of the jokes were delivered with any aplomb. Is this parliament at its worst?Also today, Wes Streeting is under pressure as the junior doctors' strike begins – how is he dealing with the walkout?James Heale speaks to Isabel Hardman and Tim Shipman.Produced by Oscar Edmondson.Become a Spectator subscriber today to access this podcast without adverts. Go to spectator.co.uk/adfree to find out more.For more Spectator podcasts, go to spectator.co.uk/podcasts.Contact us: podcast@spectator.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Classically trained actor Chike Johnson joins the classic story of A Christmas Carol as Ebenezer Scrooge. He joins Steve Dale to talk about how he gets into character, the history of the story, and more! For information on the play and ticket prices, visit: www.goodmantheatre.org/show/a-christmas-carol/

California synth-pop duo PRXZM joins us in studio for a live musical performance. Classically trained musicians Nick Ortega and Emma Maidenberg host a weekly livestream where fans can watch them compose in real-time and offer feedback. PRXZM's latest project? Remixing our Forum theme song! We'll talk to them about the process of remixing and what it's like to collaborate so closely with their fans. Guests: Nick Ortega, synth, PRXZM Emma Maidenberg, vocals, PRXZM Daniel Reiter, guitar, PRXZM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do not attempt to adjust your WYGYFF podcast, there is nothing wrong; we have taken control as to bring you this special show; we will return it to you as soon as you are grooving . . . Featured in WYGYFF Episode 33: Classically trained funk keyboardist, singer, composer, producer and author Danny Bedrosian. For the past 20+ years, he has been best known as a central and touring member of Parliament-Funkadelic, a.k.a. George Clinton & the P-Funk All-Stars. During that time he has also appeared on numerous P-Funk and associated studio recordings and led many of his own projects, several of which feature fellow Funk Mob players. On his 2023 appearance on this channel's TRUTH IN RHYTHM show, he talked about his first book, “The Authorized P-Funk Song Reference: Official Canon of Parliament-Funkadelic, 1956-2023,” which fully documents the vast recording history of one of music's most prolific and monumental acts.  This fall has seen the release of his second book, “Make My Funk the P-Funk,” which documents Parliament-Funkadelic's pivotal year of 1975 and the albums: Chocolate City, Let's Take It to the Stage and Mothership Connection. This was the course that allowed listeners to make their funk the P-Funk, get their funk uncut, experience the bomb and forever wants to get funked up. That literature covering a seminal year of monumental music history sets the stage for a deep discussion between a pair of hardcore funkateers that any P-Funk, funk or music aficionado will adore.  RECORDED OCTOBER 2025 Hosted by Scott "DR GX" Goldfine — musicologist, author of “Everything Is on the One: The First Guide of Funk” and creator/host of the popular TRUTH IN RHYTHM podcast — "Where'd You Get Your Funk From?" is the latest interview show brought to you by FUNKNSTUFF.NET. Where'd You Get Your Funk From (WYGYFF) is an open format video and audio podcast focusing on the here and now, with a broad range of creative and artistic guests sharing fascinating stories, experiences, and perspectives. WYGYFF is a welcoming avenue to newer and independent musical acts as well as established and still active musicians of any genre; authors; filmmakers; actors; artists; collectors and archivists; radio & podcast personalities; journalists; scholars; sound techs; promoters; photographers; and other creative people. A common thread, is the show's standard opening question: Where'd you get your funk from? This is much deeper than it may seem as the answer need not be strictly about funky music, as not everyone has found the funk. It could hit on whatever type of music touches their soul or pleasure centers. Additionally, the question extends beyond music. Paraphrasing George Clinton, funk is whatever it needs to be to get you over the hump. Thus, guests can explain where they got their grit, perseverance, inspiration, talent, creativity, character or other qualities that shaped them into who they are today. This serves as a springboard into candid, in-depth and engrossing conversations. LEGAL NOTICE: All video and audio content protected by copyright. Any use of this material is strictly prohibited without expressed consent from original content producer and owner Scott Goldfine, dba FUNKNSTUFF. For inquiries, email info@funknstuff.net. Get your copy of "Everything Is on the One: The First Guide of Funk" today! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1541256603/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1541256603&linkCode=as2&tag=funknstuff-20&linkId=b6c7558ddc7f8fc9fe440c5d9f3c400

Paroxysmal movement disorders refer to a group of highly heterogeneous disorders that present with attacks of involuntary movements without loss of consciousness. These disorders demonstrate considerable and ever-expanding genetic and clinical heterogeneity, so an accurate clinical diagnosis has key therapeutic implications. In this episode, Kait Nevel, MD, speaks with Abhimanyu Mahajan, MD, MHS, FAAN, author of the article “Paroxysmal Movement Disorders” in the Continuum® August 2025 Movement Disorders issue. Dr. Nevel is a Continuum® Audio interviewer and a neurologist and neuro-oncologist at Indiana University School of Medicine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Dr. Mahajan is an assistant professor of neurology and rehabilitation medicine at the James J. and Joan A. Gardner Family Center for Parkinson's Disease and Movement Disorders at the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati, Ohio. Additional Resources Read the article: Paroxysmal Movement Disorders Subscribe to Continuum®: shop.lww.com/Continuum Earn CME (available only to AAN members): continpub.com/AudioCME Continuum® Aloud (verbatim audio-book style recordings of articles available only to Continuum® subscribers): continpub.com/Aloud More about the American Academy of Neurology: aan.com Social Media facebook.com/continuumcme @ContinuumAAN Host: @IUneurodocmom Guest: @MahajanMD Full episode transcript available here Dr Jones: This is Doctor Lyell Jones, editor in chief of Continuum. Thank you for listening to Continuum Audio. Be sure to visit the links in the episode notes for information about earning CME, subscribing to the journal, and exclusive access to interviews not featured on the podcast. Dr Nevel: Hello, this is Dr Kait Nevel. Today I'm interviewing doctor Abhi Mahajan about his article on diagnosis and management of paroxysmal movement disorders, which appears in the August 2025 Continuum issue on movement disorders. Abhi, welcome to the podcast and please introduce yourself to the audience. Dr Mahajan: Thank you, Kait. Thank you for inviting me. My name is Abhi Mahajan. I'm an assistant professor of neurology and rehabilitation medicine at the University of Cincinnati in Cincinnati, Ohio. I'm happy to be here. Dr Nevel: Wonderful. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you about your article today on this very interesting and unique set of movement disorders. So, before we get into your article a little bit more, I think just kind of the set the stage for the discussion so that we're all on the same page. Could you start us off with some definitions? What are paroxysmal movement disorders? And generally, how do we start to kind of categorize these in our minds? Dr Mahajan: So, the term paroxysmal movement disorders refers to a group of highly heterogeneous disorders. These may present with attacks of involuntary movements, commonly a combination of dystonia and chorea, or ataxia, or both. These movements are typically without loss of consciousness and may follow, may follow, so with or without known triggers. In terms of the classification, these have been classified in a number of ways. Classically, these have been classified based on the trigger. So, if the paroxysmal movement disorder follows activity, these are called kinesigenic, paroxysmal, kinesigenic dyskinesia. If they are not followed by activity, they're called non kinesigenic dyskinesia and then if they've followed prolonged activity or exercise they're called paroxysmal exercise induced dyskinesia. There's a separate but related group of protogynous movement disorders called episodic attacks here that can have their own triggers. Initially this was the classification that was said. Subsequent classifications have placed their focus on the ideology of these attacks that could be familiar or acquired and of course understanding of familiar or genetic causes of paroxysmal movement disorders keeps on expanding and so on and so forth. And more recently, response to pharmacotherapy and specific clinical features have also been introduced into the classification. Dr Nevel: Great, thank you for that. Can you share with us what you think is the most important takeaway from your article for the practicing neurologist? Dr Mahajan: Absolutely. I think it's important to recognize that everything that looks and sounds bizarre should not be dismissed as malingering. Such hyperkinetic and again in quotations, “bizarre movements”. They may appear functional to the untrained eye or the lazy eye. These movements can be diagnosed. Paroxysmal movement disorders can be diagnosed with a good clinical history and exam and may be treated with a lot of success with medications that are readily available and cheap. So, you can actually make a huge amount of difference to your patients' lives by practicing old-school neurology. Dr Nevel: That's great, thank you so much for that. I can imagine that scenario does come up where somebody is thought to have a functional neurological disorder but really has a proximal movement disorder. You mentioned that in your article, how it's important to distinguish between these two, how there can be similarities at times. Do you mind giving us a little bit more in terms of how do we differentiate between functional neurologic disorder and paroxysmal movement disorder? Dr Mahajan: So clinical differentiation of functional neurological disorder from paroxysmal movement disorders, of course it's really important as a management is completely different, but it can be quite challenging. There's certainly an overlap. So, there can be an overlap with presentation, with phenomenology. Paroxysmal nature is common to both of them. In addition, FND and PMD's may commonly share triggers, whether they are movement, physical exercise. Other triggers include emotional stimuli, even touch or auditory stimuli. What makes it even more challenging is that FND's may coexist with other neurological disorders, including paroxysmal movement disorders. However, there are certain specific phenom phenotypic differences that have been reported. So specific presentations, for example the paroxysms may look different. Each paroxysm may look different in functional neurological disorders, specific phenotypes like paroxysmal akinesia. So, these are long duration episodes with eyes closed. Certain kinds of paroxysmal hyperkinesia with ataxia and dystonia have been reported. Of course. More commonly we see PNES of paroxysmal nonepileptic spells or seizures that may be considered paroxysmal movement disorders but represent completely different etiology which is FND. Within the world of movement disorders, functional jerks may resemble propiospinal myoclonus which is a completely different entity. Overall, there are certain things that help separate functional movement disorders from paroxysmal movement disorders, such as an acute onset variable and inconsistent phenomenology. They can be suggestibility, distractibility, entrainment, the use of an EMG may show a B-potential (Bereitschaftspotential) preceding the movement in patients with FND. So, all of these cues are really helpful. Dr Nevel: Great, thanks. When you're seeing a patient who's reporting to these paroxysmal uncontrollable movements, what kind of features of their story really tips you off that this might be a proximal movement disorder? Dr Mahajan: Often these patients have been diagnosed with functional neurological disorders and they come to us. But for me, whenever the patient and or the family talk about episodic movements, I think about these. Honestly, we must be aware that there is a possibility that the movements that the patients are reporting that you may not see in clinic. Maybe there are obvious movement disorders. Specifically, there's certain clues that you should always ask for in the history, for example, ask for the age of onset, a description of movements. Patients typically have videos or families have videos. You may not be able to see them in clinic. The regularity of frequency of these movements, how long the attacks are, is there any family history of or not? On the basis of triggers, whether, as I mentioned before, do these follow exercise? Prolonged exercise? Or neither of the above? What is the presentation in between attacks, which I think is a very important clinical clue. Your examination may be limited to videos, but it's important not just to examine the video which represents the patient during an attack, but in between attacks. That is important. And of course, I suspect we'll get to the treatment, but the treatment can follow just this part, the history and physical exam. It may be refined with further testing, including genetic testing. Dr Nevel: Great. On the note of genetic testing, when you do suspect a diagnosis of paroxysmal movement disorder, what are some key points for the provider to be aware of about genetic testing? How do we go about that? I know that there are lots of different options for genetic testing and it gets complicated. What do you suggest? Dr Mahajan: Traditionally, things were a little bit easier, right, because we had a couple of genes that have been associated with the robust movement disorders. So, genetic testing included single gene testing, testing for PRRT2 followed by SLC2A. And if these were negative, you said, well, this is not a genetic ideology for paroxysmal movement disorders. Of course, with time that has changed. There's an increase in known genes and variants. There is increased genetic entropy. So, the same genetic mutation may present with many phenotypes and different genetic mutations may present with the similar phenotype. Single gene testing is not a high yield approach. Overall genetic investigations for paroxysmal movement disorders use next generation sequencing or whole exome sequence panels which allow for sequencing of multiple genes simultaneously. The reported diagnostic yield with let's say next generation sequencing is around 35 to 50 percent. Specific labs at centers have developed their own panels which may improve the yield of course. In children, microarray may be considered, especially the presentation includes epilepsy or intellectual disability because copy number variations may not be detected by a whole exome sequencing or next generation sequencing. Overall, I will tell you that I'm certainly not an expert in genetics, so whenever you're considering genetic testing, if possible, please utilize the expertise of a genetic counsellor. Families want to know, especially as an understanding of the molecular underpinnings and knowledge about associated mutations or variations keeps on expanding. We need to incorporate their expertise. A variant of unknown significance, which is quite a common result with genetic testing, may not be a variant of unknown significance next year may be reclassified as pathogenic. So, this is extremely important. Dr Nevel: Yeah. That's such a good point. Thank you. And you just mentioned that there are some genetic mutations that can lead to multiple different phenotypes. Seemingly similar phenotypes can be associated with various genetic mutations. What's our understanding of that? Do we have an understanding of that? Why there is this seeming disconnect at times between the specific genetic mutation and the phenotype? Dr Mahajan: That is a tough question to answer for all paroxysmal movement disorders because the answer may be specific to a specific mutation. I think a great example is the CACNA1A mutation. It is a common cause of episodic ataxia type 2. Depending on when the patient presents, you can have a whole gamut of clinical presentations. So, if the patient is 1 year old, the patient can present with epileptic encephalopathy. Two to 5 years, it can be benign paroxysmal torticollis of infancy. Five to 10 years, can present with learning difficulties with absence epilepsy and then of course later, greater than 10 years, with episodic ataxia (type) 2 hemiplegic migraine and then a presentation with progressive ataxia and hemiplegic migraines has also been reported. So not just episodic progressive form of ataxia has also been reported. I think overall these disorders are very rare. They are even more infrequently diagnosed than their prevalence. As such, the point that different genetic mutations present with different phenotypes, or the same genetic mutation I may present with different phenotypes could also represent this part. Understanding of the clinical presentation is really incomplete and forever growing. There's a new case report or case series every other month, which makes this a little bit challenging, but that's all the more reason for learning about them and for constant vigilance for patients who show up to our clinic. Dr Nevel: Yeah, absolutely. What is our current understanding of the associated pathophysiology of these conditions and the pathophysiology relating to the genetics? And then how does that relate to the treatment of these conditions? Dr Mahajan: So, a number of different disease mechanisms have been proposed. Traditionally, these were all thought to be ion channelopathies, but a number of different processes have been proposed now. So, depending on the genetic mutation that you talk about. So certain mutations can involve ion channels such as CACMA1A, ATP1A3. It can involve solute carriers, synaptic vesicle fusion, energy metabolism such as ECHS1, synthesis of neurotransmitters such as GCH1. So, there are multiple processes that may be involved. I think overall for the practicing clinician such as me, I think there is a greater need for us to understand the underlying genetics and associated phenotypes and the molecular mechanisms specifically because these can actually influence treatment decisions, right? So, you mentioned that specific genetic testing understanding of the underlying molecular mechanism can influence specific treatments. As an example, a patient presenting with proximal nocturnal dyskinesia with mutation in the ADCY5 gene may respond beautifully to caffeine. Other examples if you have SLC2A1, so gluc-1 (glucose transporter type 1) mutation, a ketogenic diet may work really well. If you have PDHA1 mutation that may respond to thiamine and so on and so forth. There are certain patients where paroxysmal movement disorders are highly disabling and you may consider deep brain stimulation. That's another reason why it may be important to understand genetic mutations because there is literature on response to DBS with certain mutations versus others. Helps like counselling for patients and families, and of course introduces time, effort, and money spent in additional testing. Dr Nevel: Other than genetic testing, what other diagnostic work up do you consider when you're evaluating patients with a suspected paroxysmal movement disorder? Are there specific things in the history or on exam that would prompt you to do certain testing to look for perhaps other things in your differential when you're first evaluating a patient? Dr Mahajan: In this article, I provide a flow chart that helps me assess these patients as well. I think overall the history taking and neurological exam outside of these paroxysms is really important. So, the clinical exam in between these episodic events, for example, for history, specific examples include, well, when do these paroxysms happen? Do they happen or are they precipitated with meals that might indicate that there's something to do with glucose metabolism? Do they follow exercise? So, a specific example is in Moyamoya disease, they can be limb shaking that follows exercise. So, which gives you a clue to what the etiology could be. Of course, family history is important, but again, talking about the exam in between episodes, you know, this is actually a great point because out– we've talked about genetics, we've talked about idiopathic paroxysmal movement disorders, –but a number of these disorders are because of acquired causes. Well, of course it's important because acquired causes such as autoimmune causes, so multiple sclerosis, ADEM, lupus, LGI1, all of these NMDAR, I mentioned Moyamoya disease and metabolic causes. Of course, you can consider FND as under-acquired as well. But all of these causes have very different treatments and they have very different prognosis. So, I think it's extremely important for us to look into the history with a fine comb and then examine these patients in between these episodes and keep our mind open about acquired causes as well. Dr Nevel: When you evaluate these patients, are you routinely ordering vascular imaging and autoimmune kind of serologies and things like that to evaluate for these other acquired causes or it does it really just depend on the clinical presentation of the patient? Dr Mahajan: It mostly depends on the clinical presentation. I mean, if the exam is let's say completely normal, there are no other risk factors in a thirty year old, then you know, with a normal exam, normal history, no other risk factors. I may not order an MRI of the brain. But if the patient is 55 or 60 (years) with vascular risk factors, then you have to be mindful that this could be a TIA. If the patient has let's say in the 30s and in between these episodes too has basically has a sequel of these paroxysms, then you may want to consider autoimmune. I think the understanding of paraneoplastic, even autoimmune disorders, is expanding as well. So, you know the pattern matters. So, if all of this is subacute started a few months ago, then I have a low threshold for ordering testing for autoimmune and paraneoplastic ideology is simply because it makes such a huge difference in terms of how you approach the treatment and the long-term prognosis. Dr Nevel: Yeah, absolutely. What do you find most challenging about the management of patients with paroxysmal movement disorders? And then also what is most rewarding? Dr Mahajan: I think the answer to both those questions is, is the same. The first thing is there's so much advancement in what we know and how we understand these disorders so regularly that it's really hard to keep on track. Even for this article, it took me a few months to write this article, and between the time and I started and when I ended, there were new papers to include new case reports, case series, right? So, these are rare disorders. So most of our understanding for these disorders comes from case reports and case series, and it's in a constant state of advancement. I think that is the most challenging part, but it's also the most interesting part as well. I think the challenging and interesting part is the heterogeneity of presentation as well. These can involve just one part of your body, your entire body can present with paroxysmal events, with multiple different phenomenologies and they might change over time. So overall, it's highly rewarding to diagnose such patients in clinic. As I said before, you can make a sizeable difference with the medication which is usually inexpensive, which is obviously a great point to mention these days in our health system. But with anti-seizure drugs, you can put the right diagnosis, you can make a huge difference. I just wanted to make a point that this is not minimizing in any way the validity or the importance of diagnosing patients with functional neurological disorders correctly. Both of them are as organic. The importance is the treatment is completely different. So, if you're diagnosing somebody with FND and they do have FND and they get cognitive behavioral therapy and they get better, that's fantastic. But if somebody has paroxysmal movement disorders and they undergo cognitive behavioral therapy and they're not doing well, that doesn't help anybody. Dr Nevel: One hundred percent. As providers, obviously we all want to help our patients and having the correct diagnosis, you know, is the first step. What is most interesting to you about paroxysmal movement disorders? Dr Mahajan: So outside of the above, there are some unanswered questions that I find very interesting. Specifically, the overlap with epilepsy is very interesting, including shared genes, the episodic nature, presence of triggers, therapeutic response to anti-seizure drugs. All of this I think deserves further study. In the clinic, you may find that epilepsy and prognosis for movement disorders may occur in the same individual or in a family. Episodic ataxia has been associated with seizures. Traditionally this dichotomy of an ictal focus. If it's cortical then it's epilepsy, if it's subcortical then it's prognosis for movement disorders. This is thought to be overly simplistic. There can be co-occurrence of seizures and paroxysmal movement disorders in the same patient and that has led to this continuum between these two that has been proposed. This is something that needs to be looked into in more detail. Our colleagues in Epilepsy may scoff this, but there's concept of basal ganglia epilepsy manifesting as paroxysmal movement disorders was proposed in the past. And there was this case report that was published out of Italy where there was ictal discharge from the supplementary sensory motor cortex with a concomitant discharge from the ipsilateral coordinate nucleus in a patient with paroxysmal kinesigenic cardioarthidosis. So again, you know, basal ganglia epilepsy, no matter what you call it, the idea is that there is a clear overlap between these two conditions. And I think that is fascinating. Dr Nevel: Really interesting stuff. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. Dr Mahajan: Thank you, Kait. And thank you to the Continuum for inviting me to write this article and for this chance to speak about it. I'm excited about how it turned out, and I hope readers enjoy it as well. Dr Nevel: Today again, I've been interviewing doctor Abhi Mahajan about his article on diagnosis and management of paroxysmal movement disorders, which appears in the August 2025 Continuum issue on movement disorders. I encourage all of our listeners to be sure to check out the Continuum Audio episodes from this and other issues. As always, please read the Continuum articles where you can find a lot more information than what we were able to cover in our discussion today. And thank you for our listeners for joining today. And thank you, Abhi, so much for sharing your knowledge with us today. Dr Monteith: This is Dr Teshamae Monteith, associate editor of Continuum Audio. If you've enjoyed this episode, you'll love the journal, which is full of in depth and clinically relevant information important for neurology practitioners. Use the link in the episode notes to learn more and subscribe. AAN members, you can get CME for listening to this interview by completing the evaluation at continpub.com/audioCME. Thank you for listening to Continuum Audio.

California synth-pop duo PRXZM joins us in studio for a live musical performance. Classically trained musicians Nick Ortega and Emma Maidenberg host a weekly livestream where fans can watch them compose in real-time and offer feedback. PRXZM's latest project? Remixing our Forum theme song! We'll talk to them about the process of remixing and what it's like to collaborate so closely with their fans. Guests: Nick Ortega, synth, PRXZM Emma Maidenberg, vocals, PRXZM Daniel Reiter, guitar, PRXZM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I'm talking to economic historian Judge Glock, Director of Research at the Manhattan Institute. Judge works on a lot of topics: if you enjoy this episode, I'd encourage you to read some of his work on housing markets and the Environmental Protection Agency. But I cornered him today to talk about civil service reform.Since the 1990s, over 20 red and blue states have made radical changes to how they hire and fire government employees — changes that would be completely outside the Overton window at the federal level. A paper by Judge and Renu Mukherjee lists four reforms made by states like Texas, Florida, and Georgia: * At-will employment for state workers* The elimination of collective bargaining agreements* Giving managers much more discretion to hire* Giving managers much more discretion in how they pay employeesJudge finds decent evidence that the reforms have improved the effectiveness of state governments, and little evidence of the politicization that federal reformers fear. Meanwhile, in Washington, managers can't see applicants' resumes, keyword searches determine who gets hired, and firing a bad performer can take years. But almost none of these ideas are on the table in Washington.Thanks to Harry Fletcher-Wood for his judicious transcript edits and fact-checking, and to Katerina Barton for audio edits.Judge, you have a paper out about lessons for civil service reform from the states. Since the ‘90s, red and blue states have made big changes to how they hire and fire people. Walk through those changes for me.I was born and grew up in Washington DC, heard a lot about civil service throughout my childhood, and began to research it as an adult. But I knew almost nothing about the state civil service systems. When I began working in the states — mainly across the Sunbelt, including in Texas, Kansas, Arizona — I was surprised to learn that their civil service systems were reformed to an absolutely radical extent relative to anything proposed at the federal level, let alone implemented.Starting in the 1990s, several states went to complete at-will employment. That means there were no official civil service protections for any state employees. Some managers were authorized to hire people off the street, just like you could in the private sector. A manager meets someone in a coffee shop, they say, "I'm looking for exactly your role. Why don't you come on board?" At the federal level, with its stultified hiring process, it seemed absurd to even suggest something like that.You had states that got rid of any collective bargaining agreements with their public employee unions. You also had states that did a lot more broadbanding [creating wider pay bands] for employee pay: a lot more discretion for managers to reward or penalize their employees depending on their performance.These major reforms in these states were, from the perspective of DC, incredibly radical. Literally nobody at the federal level proposes anything approximating what has been in place for decades in the states. That should be more commonly known, and should infiltrate the debate on civil service reform in DC.Even though the evidence is not absolutely airtight, on the whole these reforms have been positive. A lot of the evidence is surveys asking managers and operators in these states how they think it works. They've generally been positive. We know these states operate pretty well: Places like Texas, Florida, and Arizona rank well on state capacity metrics in terms of cost of government, time for permitting, and other issues.Finally, to me the most surprising thing is the dog that didn't bark. The argument in the federal government against civil service reform is, “If you do this, we will open up the gates of hell and return to the 19th-century patronage system, where spoilsmen come and go depending on elected officials, and the government is overrun with political appointees who don't care about the civil service.” That has simply not happened. We have very few reports of any concrete examples of politicization at the state level. In surveys, state employees and managers can almost never remember any example of political preferences influencing hiring or firing.One of the surveys you cited asked, “Can you think of a time someone said that they thought that the political preferences were a factor in civil service hiring?” and it was something like 5%.It was in that 5-10% range. I don't think you'd find a dissimilar number of people who would say that even in an official civil service system. Politics is not completely excluded even from a formal civil service system.A few weeks ago, you and I talked to our mutual friend, Don Moynihan, who's a scholar of public administration. He's more skeptical about the evidence that civil service reform would be positive at the federal level.One of your points is, “We don't have strong negative evidence from the states. Productivity didn't crater in states that moved to an at-will employment system.” We do have strong evidence that collective bargaining in the public sector is bad for productivity.What I think you and Don would agree on is that we could use more evidence on the hiring and firing side than the surveys that we have. Is that a fair assessment?Yes, I think that's correct. As you mentioned, the evidence on collective bargaining is pretty close to universal: it raises costs, reduces the efficiency of government, and has few to no positive upsides.On hiring and firing, I mentioned a few studies. There's a 2013 study that looks at HR managers in six states and finds very little evidence of politicization, and managers generally prefer the new system. There was a dissertation that surveyed several employees and managers in civil service reform and non-reform states. Across the board, the at-will employment states said they had better hiring retention, productivity, and so forth. And there's a 2002 study that looked specifically at Texas, Florida, and Georgia after their reforms, and found almost universal approbation inside the civil service itself for these reforms.These are not randomized control trials. But I think that generally positive evidence should point us directionally where we should go on civil service reform. If we loosen restrictions on discipline and firing, decentralize hiring and so forth — we probably get some productivity benefits from it. We can also know, with some amount of confidence, that the sky is not going to fall, which I think is a very important baseline assumption. The civil service system will continue on and probably be fairly close to what it is today, in terms of its political influence, if you have decentralized hiring and at-will employment.As you point out, a lot of these reforms that have happened in 20-odd states since the ‘90s would be totally outside the Overton window at the federal level. Why is it so easy for Georgia to make a bipartisan move in the ‘90s to at-will employment, when you couldn't raise the topic at the federal level?It's a good question. I think in the 1990s, a lot of people thought a combination of the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act — which was the Carter-era act that somewhat attempted to do what these states hoped to do in the 1990s — and the Clinton-era Reinventing Government Initiative, would accomplish the same ends. That didn't happen.That was an era when civil service reform was much more bipartisan. In Georgia, it was a Democratic governor, Zell Miller, who pushed it. In a lot of these other states, they got buy-in from both sides. The recent era of state reform took place after the 2010 Republican wave in the states. Since that wave, the reform impetus for civil service has been much more Republican. That has meant it's been a lot harder to get buy-in from both sides at the federal level, which will be necessary to overcome a filibuster.I think people know it has to be very bipartisan. We're just past the point, at least at the moment, where it can be bipartisan at the federal level. But there are areas where there's a fair amount of overlap between the two sides on what needs to happen, at least in the upper reaches of the civil service.It was interesting to me just how bipartisan civil service reform has been at various times. You talked about the Civil Service Reform Act, which passed Congress in 1978. President Carter tells Congress that the civil service system:“Has become a bureaucratic maze which neglects merit, tolerates poor performance, permits abuse of legitimate employee rights, and mires every personnel action in red tape, delay, and confusion.”That's a Democratic president saying that. It's striking to me that the civil service was not the polarized topic that it is today.Absolutely. Carter was a big civil service reformer in Georgia before those even larger 1990s reforms. He campaigned on civil service reform and thought it was essential to the success of his presidency. But I think you are seeing little sprouts of potential bipartisanship today, like the Chance to Compete Act at the end of 2024, and some of the reforms Obama did to the hiring process. There's options for bipartisanship at the federal level, even if it can't approach what the states have done.I want to walk through the federal hiring process. Let's say you're looking to hire in some federal agency — you pick the agency — and I graduated college recently, and I want to go into the civil service. Tell me about trying to hire somebody like me. What's your first step?It's interesting you bring up the college graduate, because that is one recent reform: President Trump put out an executive order trying to counsel agencies to remove the college degree requirement for job postings. This happened in a lot of states first, like Maryland, and that's also been bipartisan. This requirement for a college degree — which was used as a very unfortunate proxy for ability at a lot of these jobs — is now being removed. It's not across the whole federal government. There's still job postings that require higher education degrees, but that's something that's changed.To your question, let's say the Department of Transportation. That's one of the more bipartisan ones, when you look at surveys of federal civil servants. Department of Defense, Veterans Affairs, they tend to be a little more Republican. Health and Human Services and some other agencies tend to be pretty Democrat. Transportation is somewhere in the middle.As a manager, you try to craft a job description and posting to go up on the USA Jobs website, which is where all federal job postings go. When they created it back in 1996, that was supposedly a massive reform to federal hiring: this website where people could submit their resumes. Then, people submit their resumes and answer questions about their qualifications for the job.One of the slightly different aspects from the private sector is that those applications usually go to an HR specialist first. The specialist reviews everything and starts to rank people into different categories, based on a lot of weird things. It's supposed to be “knowledge, skills, and abilities” — your KSAs, or competencies. To some extent, this is a big step up from historical practice. You had, frankly, an absurd civil service exam, where people had to fill out questions about, say, General Grant or about US Code Title 42, or whatever it was, and then submit it. Someone rated the civil service exam, and then the top three test-takers were eligible for the job.We have this newer, better system, where we rank on knowledge, skills, and abilities, and HR puts put people into different categories. One of the awkward ways they do this is by merely scanning the resumes and applications for keywords. If it's a computer job, make sure you say the word “computer” somewhere in your resume. Make sure you say “manager” if it's a managerial job.Just to be clear, this is entirely literal. There's a keyword search, and folks who don't pass that search are dinged.Yes. I've always wondered, how common is this? It's sometimes hard to know what happens in the black box in these federal HR departments. I saw an HR official recently say, "If I'm not allowed to do keyword searches, I'm going to take 15 years to overlook all the applications, so I've got to do keyword searches." If they don't have the keywords, into the circular file it goes, as they used to say: into the garbage can.Then they start ranking people on their abilities into, often, three different categories. That is also very literal. If you put in the little word bubble, "I am an exceptional manager," you get pushed on into the next level of the competition. If you say, "I'm pretty good, but I'm not the best," into the circular file you go.I've gotten jaded about this, but it really is shocking. We ask candidates for a self-assessment, and if they just rank themselves 10/10 on everything, no matter how ludicrous, that improves their odds of being hired.That's going to immensely improve your odds. Similar to the keyword search, there's been pushback on this in recent years, and I'm definitely not going to say it's universal anymore. It's rarer than it used to be. But it's still a very common process.The historical civil service system used to operate on a rule of three. In places like New York, it still operates like that. The top three candidates on the evaluation system get presented to the manager, and the manager has to approve one of them for the position.Thanks partially to reforms by the Obama administration in 2010, they have this category rating system where the best qualified or the very qualified get put into a big bucket together [instead of only including the top three]. Those are the people that the person doing the hiring gets to see, evaluate, and decide who he wants to hire.There are some restrictions on that. If a veteran outranks everybody else, you've got to pick the veteran [typically known as Veterans' Preference]. That was an issue in some of the state civil service reforms, too. The states said, “We're just going to encourage a veterans' preference. We don't need a formalized system to say they get X number of points and have to be in Y category. We're just going to say, ‘Try to hire veterans.'” That's possible without the formal system, despite what some opponents of reform may claim.One of the particular problems here is just the nature of the people doing the hiring. Sometimes you just need good managers to encourage HR departments to look at a broader set of qualifications. But one of the bigger problems is that they keep the HR evaluation system divorced from the manager who is doing the hiring. David Shulkin, who was the head of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), wrote a great book, It Shouldn't Be This Hard to Serve Your Country. He was a healthcare exec, and the VA is mainly a healthcare agency. He would tell people, "You should work for me," they would send their applications into the HR void, and he'd never see them again. They would get blocked at some point in this HR evaluation process, and he'd be sent people with no healthcare experience, because for whatever reason they did well in the ranking.One of the very base-level reforms should be, “How can we more clearly integrate the hiring manager with the evaluation process?” To some extent, the bipartisan Chance to Compete Act tries to do this. They said, “You should have subject matter experts who are part of crafting the description of the job, are part of evaluating, and so forth.” But there's still a long road to go.Does that firewall — where the person who wants to hire doesn't get to look at the process until the end — exist originally because of concerns about cronyism?One of the interesting things about the civil service is its raison d'être — its reason for being — was supposedly a single, clear purpose: to prevent politicized hiring and patronage. That goes back to the Pendleton Civil Service Act of 1883. But it's always been a little strange that you have all of these very complex rules about every step of the process — from hiring to firing to promotion, and everything in between — to prevent political influence. We could just focus on preventing political influence, and not regulate every step of the process on the off-chance that without a clear regulation, political influence could creep in. This division [between hiring manager and applicants] is part of that general concern. There are areas where I've heard HR specialists say, "We declare that a manager is a subject matter expert, and we bring them into the process early on, we can do that." But still the division is pretty stark, and it's based on this excessive concern about patronage.One point you flag is that the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), which is the body that thinks about personnel in the federal government, has a 300-page regulatory document for agencies on how you have to hire. There's a remarkable amount of process.Yes, but even that is a big change from the Federal Personnel Manual, which was the 10,000-page document that we shredded in the 1990s. In the ‘90s, OPM gave the agencies what's called “delegated examining authorities.” This says, “You, agency, have power to decide who to hire, we're not going to do the central supervision anymore. But, but, but: here's the 300-page document that dictates exactly how you have to carry out that hiring.”So we have some decentralization, allowing managers more authority to control their own departments. But this two-level oversight — a local HR department that's ultimately being overseen by the OPM — also leads to a lot of slip ‘twixt cup and lip, in terms of how something gets implemented. If you're in the agency and you're concerned about the OPM overseeing your process, you're likely to be much more careful than you would like to be. “Yes, it's delegated to me, but ultimately, I know I have to answer to OPM about this process. I'm just going to color within the lines.”I often cite Texas, which has no central HR office. Each agency decides how it wants to hire. In a lot of these reform states, if there is a central personnel office, it's an information clearinghouse or reservoir of models. “You can use us, the central HR office, as a resource if you want us to help you post the job, evaluate it, or help manage your processes, but you don't have to.” That's the goal we should be striving for in a lot of the federal reforms. Just make OPM a resource for the managers in the individual departments to do their thing or go independent.Let's say I somehow get through the hiring process. You offer me a job at the Department of Transportation. What are you paying me?This is one of the more stultified aspects of the federal civil service system. OPM has another multi-hundred-page handbook called the Handbook of Occupational Groups and Families. Inside that, you've got 49 different “groups and families,” like “Clerical occupations.” Inside those 49 groups are a series of jobs, sometimes dozens, like “Computer Operator.” Inside those, they have independent documents — often themselves dozens of pages long — detailing classes of positions. Then you as a manager have to evaluate these nine factors, which can each give points to each position, which decides how you get slotted into this weird Government Schedule (GS) system [the federal payscale].Again, this is actually an improvement. Before, you used to have the Civil Service Commission, which went around staring very closely at someone over their typewriter and saying, "No, I think you should be a GS-12, not a GS-11, because someone over in the Department of Defense who does your same job is a GS-12." Now this is delegated to agencies, but again, the agencies have to listen to the OPM on how to classify and set their jobs into this 15-stage GS-classification system, each stage of which has 10 steps which determine your pay, and those steps are determined mainly by your seniority. It's a formalized step-by-step system, overwhelmingly based on just how long you've sat at your desk.Let's be optimistic about my performance as a civil servant. Say that over my first three years, I'm just hitting it out of the park. Can you give me a raise? What can you do to keep me in my role?Not too much. For most people, the within-step increases — those 10 steps inside each GS-level — is just set by seniority. Now there are all these quality step increases you can get, but they're very rare and they have to be documented. So you could hypothetically pay someone more, but it's going to be tough. In general, the managers just prefer to stick to seniority, because not sticking to it garners a lot of complaints. Like so much else, the goal is, "We don't want someone rewarding an official because they happen to share their political preferences." The result of that concern is basically nobody can get rewarded at all, which is very unfortunate.We do have examples in state and federal government of what's known as broadbanding, where you have very broad pay scales, and the manager can decide where to slot someone. Say you're a computer operator, which can mean someone who knows what an Excel spreadsheet is, or someone who's programming the most advanced AI systems. As a manager in South Carolina or Florida, you have a lot of discretion to say, "I can set you 50% above the market rate of what this job technically would go for, if I think you're doing a great job."That's very rare at the federal level. They've done broadbanding at the Government Accountability Office, the National Institute of Standards and Technology. The China Lake Experiment out in California gave managers a lot more discretion to reward scientists. But that's definitely the exception. In general, it's a step-wise, seniority-based system.What if you want to bring me into the Senior Executive Service (SES)? Theoretically, that sits at the top of the General Service scale. Can't you bump me up in there and pay me what you owe me?I could hypothetically bring you in as a senior executive servant. The SES was created in the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act. The idea was, “We're going to have this elite cadre of about 8,000 individuals at the top of the federal government, whose employment will be higher-risk and higher-reward. They might be fired, and we're going to give them higher pay to compensate for that.”Almost immediately, that did not work out. Congress was outraged at the higher pay given to the top officials and capped it. Ever since, how much the SES can get paid has been tightly controlled. As in most of the rest of the federal government, where they establish these performance pay incentives or bonuses — which do exist — they spread them like peanut butter over the whole service. To forestall complaints, everyone gets a little bit every two or three years.That's basically what happened to the SES. Their annual pay is capped at the vice president's salary, which is a cap for a lot of people in the federal government. For most of your GS and other executive scales, the cap is Congress's salary. [NB: This is no longer exactly true, since Congress froze its own salaries in 2009. The cap for GS (currently about $195k) is now above congressional salaries ($174k).]One of the big problems with pay in the federal government is pay compression. Across civil service systems, the highest-skilled people tend to be paid much less than the private sector, and the lowest-skilled people tend to get paid much more. The political science reason for that is pretty simple: the median voter in America still decides what seems reasonable. To the median voter, the average salary of a janitor looks low, and the average salary of a scientist looks way too high. Hence this tendency to pay compression. Your average federal employee is probably overpaid relative to the private sector, because the lowest-skilled employees are paid up to 40% higher than the private sector equivalent. The highest-paid employees, the post-graduate skilled professionals, are paid less. That makes it hard to recruit the top performers, but it also swells the wage budget in a way that makes it difficult to talk about reform.There's a lot of interest in this administration in making it easier to recruit talent and get rid of under-performers. There have been aggressive pushes to limit collective bargaining in the public sector. That should theoretically make it easier to recruit, but it also increases the precariousness of civil service roles. We've seen huge firings in the civil service over the last six months.Classically, the explicit trade-off of working in the federal government was, “Your pay is going to be capped, but you have this job for life. It's impossible to get rid of you.” You trade some lifetime earnings for stability. In a world where the stability is gone, but pay is still capped, isn't the net effect to drive talent away from the civil service?I think it's a concern now. On one level it should be ameliorated, because those who are most concerned with stability of employment do tend to be lower performers. If you have people who are leaving the federal service because all they want is stability, and they're not getting that anymore, that may not be a net loss. As someone who came out of academia and knows the wonder of effective lifetime annuities, there can be very high performers who like that stability who therefore take a lower salary. Without the ability to bump that pay up more, it's going to be an issue.I do know that, internally, the Trump administration has made some signs they're open to reforms in the top tiers of the SES and other parts of the federal government. They would be willing to have people get paid more at that level to compensate for the increased risks since the Trump administration came in. But when you look at the reductions in force (RIFs) that have happened under Trump, they are overwhelmingly among probationary employees, the lower-level employees.With some exceptions. If you've been promoted recently, you can get reclassified as probationary, so some high-performers got lumped in.Absolutely. The issue has been exacerbated precisely because the RIF regulations that are in place have made the firings particularly damaging. If you had a more streamlined RIF system — which they do have in many states, where seniority is not the main determinant of who gets laid off — these RIFs could be removing the lower-performing civil servants and keeping the higher-performing ones, and giving them some amount of confidence in their tenure.Unfortunately, the combination of large-scale removals with the existing RIF regs, which are very stringent, has demoralized some of the upper levels of the federal government. I share that concern. But I might add, it is interesting, if you look at the federal government's own figures on the total civil service workforce, they have gone down significantly since Trump came in office, but I think less than 100,000 still, in the most recent numbers that I've seen. I'm not sure how much to trust those, versus some of these other numbers where people have said 150,000, 200,000.Whether the Trump administration or a future administration can remove large numbers of people from the civil service should be somewhat divorced from the general conversation on civil service reform. The main debate about whether or not Trump can do this centers around how much power the appropriators in Congress have to determine the total amount of spending in particular agencies on their workforce. It does not depend necessarily on, "If we're going to remove people — whether for general layoffs, or reductions in force, or because of particular performance issues — how can we go about doing that?" My last-ditch hope to maintain a bipartisan possibility of civil service reform is to bracket, “How much power does the president have to remove or limit the workforce in general?” from “How can he go about hiring and firing, et cetera?”I think making it easier for the president to identify and remove poor performers is a tool that any future administration would like to have.We had this conversation sparked again with the firing of the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner. But that was a position Congress set up to be appointed by the President, confirmed by the Senate, and removable by the President. It's a separate issue from civil service at large. Everyone said, “We want the president to be able to hire and fire the commissioner.” Maybe firing the commissioner was a bad decision, but that's the situation today.Attentive listeners to Statecraft know I'm pretty critical, like you are, of the regulations that say you have to go in order of seniority. In mass layoffs, you're required to fire a lot of the young, talented people.But let's talk about individual firings. I've been a terrible civil servant, a nightmarish employee from day one. You want to discipline, remove, suspend, or fire me. What are your options?Anybody who has worked in the civil service knows it's hard to fire bad performers. Whatever their political valence, whatever they feel about the civil service system, they have horror stories about a person who just couldn't be removed.In the early 2010s, a spate of stories came out about air traffic controllers sleeping on the job. Then-transportation secretary, Ray LaHood, made a big public announcement: "I'm going to fire these three guys." After these big announcements, it turned out he was only able to remove one of them. One retired, and another had their firing reduced to a suspension.You had another horrific story where a man was joking on the phone with friends when a plane crashed into a helicopter and killed nine people over the Hudson River. National outcry. They said, "We're going to fire this guy." In the end, after going through the process, he only got a suspension. Everyone agrees it's too hard.The basic story is, you have two ways to fire someone. Chapter 75, the old way, is often considered the realm of misconduct: You've stolen something from the office, punched your colleague in the face during a dispute about the coffee, something illegal or just straight-out wrong. We get you under Chapter 75.The 1978 Civil Service Reform Act added Chapter 43, which is supposed to be the performance-based system to remove someone. As with so much of that Civil Service Reform Act, the people who passed it thought this might be the beginning of an entirely different system.In the end, lots of federal managers say there's not a huge difference between the two. Some use 75, some use 43. If you use 43, you have to document very clearly what the person did wrong. You have to put them on a performance improvement plan. If they failed a performance improvement plan after a certain amount of time, they can respond to any claims about what they did wrong. Then, they can take that process up to the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) and claim that they were incorrectly fired, or that the processes weren't carried out appropriately. Then, if they want to, they can say, “Nah, I don't like the order I got,” and take it up to federal courts and complain there. Right now, the MSPB doesn't have a full quorum, which is complicating some of the recent removal disputes.You have this incredibly difficult process, unlike the private sector, where your boss looks at you and says, "I don't like how you're giving me the stink-eye today. Out you go." One could say that's good or bad, but, on the whole, I think the model should be closer to the private sector. We should trust managers to do their job without excessive oversight and process. That's clearly about as far from the realm of possibility as the current system, under which the estimate is 6-12 months to fire a very bad performer. The number of people who win at the Merit Systems Protection Board is still 20-30%.This goes into another issue, which is unionization. If you're part of a collective bargaining agreement — most of the regular federal civil service is — first, you have to go with this independent, union-based arbitration and grievance procedure. You're about 50/50 to win on those if your boss tries to remove you.So if I'm in the union, we go through that arbitration grievance system. If you win and I'm fired, I can take it to the Merit Systems Protection Board. If you win again, I can still take it to the federal courts.You can file different sorts of claims at each part. On Chapter 43, the MSPB is supposed to be about the process, not the evidence, and you just have to show it was followed. On 75, the manager has to show by preponderance of the evidence that the employee is harming the agency. Then there are different standards for what you take to the courts, and different standards according to each collective bargaining agreement for the grievance procedure when someone is disciplined. It's a very complicated, abstruse, and procedure-heavy process that makes it very difficult to remove people, which is why the involuntary separation rate at the federal government and most state governments is many multiples lower than the private sector.So, you would love to get me off your team because I'm abysmal. But you have no stomach for going through this whole process and I'm going to fight it. I'm ornery and contrarian and will drag this fight out. In practice, what do managers in the federal government do with their poor performers?I always heard about this growing up. There's the windowless office in the basement without a phone, or now an internet connection. You place someone down there, hope they get the message, and sooner or later they leave. But for plenty of people in America, that's the dream job. You just get to sit and nobody bothers you for eight hours. You punch in at 9 and punch out at 5, and that's your day. "Great. I'll collect that salary for another 10 years." But generally you just try to make life unpleasant for that person.Public sector collective bargaining in the US is new. I tend to think of it as just how the civil service works. But until about 50 years ago, there was no collective bargaining in the public sector.At the state level, it started with Wisconsin at the end of the 1950s. There were famous local government reforms beginning with the Little Wagner Act [signed in 1958] in New York City. Senator Robert Wagner had created the National Labor Relations Board. His son Robert F. Wagner Jr., mayor of New York, created the first US collective bargaining system at the local level in the ‘60s. In ‘62, John F. Kennedy issued an executive order which said, "We're going to deal officially with public sector unions,” but it was all informal and non-statutory.It wasn't until Title VII of the 1978 Civil Service Reform Act that unions had a formal, statutory role in our federal service system. This is shockingly new. To some extent, that was the great loss to many civil service reformers in ‘78. They wanted to get through a lot of these other big reforms about hiring and firing, but they gave up on the unions to try to get those. Some people think that exception swallowed the rest of the rules. The union power that was garnered in ‘78 overcame the other reforms people hoped to accomplish. Soon, you had the majority of the federal workforce subject to collective bargaining.But that's changing now too. Part of that Civil Service Reform Act said, “If your position is in a national security-related position, the president can determine it's not subject to collective bargaining.” Trump and the OPM have basically said, “Most positions in the federal government are national security-related, and therefore we're going to declare them off-limits to collective bargaining.” Some people say that sounds absurd. But 60% of the civilian civil service workforce is the Department of Defense, Veterans Affairs, and the Department of Homeland Security. I am not someone who tries to go too easy on this crowd. I think there's a heck of a lot that needs to be reformed. But it's also worth remembering that the majority of the civil service workforce are in these three agencies that Republicans tend to like a lot.Now, whether people like Veterans Affairs is more of an open question. We have some particular laws there about opening up processes after the scandals in the 2010s about waiting lists and hospitals. You had veterans hospitals saying, "We're meeting these standards for getting veterans in the door for these waiting lists." But they were straight-up lying about those standards. Many people who were on these lists waiting for months to see a doctor died in the interim, some from causes that could have been treated had they seen a VA doctor. That led to Congress doing big reforms in the VA in 2014 and 2017, precisely because everyone realized this is a problem.So, Trump has put out these executive orders stopping collective bargaining in all of these agencies that touch national security. Some of those, like the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), seem like a tough sell. I guess that, if you want to dig a mine and the Chinese are trying to dig their own mine and we want the mine to go quickly without the EPA pettifogging it, maybe. But the core ones are pretty solid. So far the courts have upheld the executive order to go in place. So collective bargaining there could be reformed.But in the rest of the government, there are these very extreme, long collective bargaining agreements between agencies and their unions. I've hit on the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) as one that's had pretty extensive bargaining with its union. When we created the TSA to supervise airport security, a lot of people said, "We need a crème de la crème to supervise airports after 9/11. We want to keep this out of union hands, because we know unions are going to make it difficult to move people around." The Obama administration said, "Nope, we're going to negotiate with the union." Now you have these huge negotiations with the unions about parking spots, hours of employment, uniforms, and everything under the sun. That makes it hard for managers in the TSA to decide when people should go where or what they should do.One thing we've talked about on Statecraft in past episodes — for instance, with John Kamensky, who was a pivotal figure in the Clinton-Gore reforms — was this relationship between government employees and “Beltway Bandits”: the contractors who do jobs you might think of as civil service jobs. One critique of that ‘90s Clinton-Gore push, “Reinventing Government,” was that although they shrank the size of the civil service on paper, the number of contractors employed by the federal government ballooned to fill that void. They did not meaningfully reduce the total number of people being paid by the federal government. Talk to me about the relationship between the civil service reform that you'd like to see and this army of folks who are not formally employees.Every government service is a combination of public employees and inputs, and private employees and inputs. There's never a single thing the government does — federal, state, or local — that doesn't involve inputs from the private sector. That could be as simple as the uniforms for the janitors. Even if you have a publicly employed janitor, who buys the mop? You're not manufacturing the mops.I understand the critique that the excessive focus on full-time employees in the 1990s led to contracting out some positions that could be done directly by the government. But I think that misses how much of the government can and should be contracted out. The basic Office of Management and Budget (OMB) statute [OMB Circular No. A-76] defining what is an essential government duty should still be the dividing line. What does the government have to do, because that is the public overseeing a process? Versus, what can the private sector just do itself?I always cite Stephen Goldsmith, the old mayor of Indianapolis. He proposed what he called the Yellow Pages test. If you open the Yellow Pages [phone directory] and three businesses do that business, the government should not be in that business. There's three garbage haulers out there. Instead of having a formal government garbage-hauling department, just contract out the garbage.With the internet, you should have a lot more opportunities to contract stuff out. I think that is generally good, and we should not have the federal government going about a lot of the day-to-day procedural things that don't require public input. What a lot of people didn't recognize is how much pressure that's going to put on government contracting officers at the federal level. Last time I checked there were 40,000 contracting officers. They have a lot of power. In the most recent year for which we have data, there were $750 billion in federal contracts. This is a substantial part of our economy. If you total state and local, we're talking almost 10% of our whole economy goes through government contracts. This is mind-boggling. In the public policy world, we should all be spending about 10% of our time thinking about contracting.One of the things I think everyone recognized is that contractors should have more authority. Some of the reform that happened with people like [Steven] Kelman — who was the Office of Federal Procurement Policy head in the ‘90s under Clinton — was, "We need to give these people more authority to just take a credit card and go buy a sheaf of paper if that's what they need. And we need more authority to get contract bids out appropriately.”The same message that animates civil service reform should animate these contracting discussions. The goal should be setting clear goals that you want — for either a civil servant or a contractor — and then giving that person the discretion to meet them. If you make the civil service more stultified, or make pay compression more extreme, you're going to have to contract more stuff out.People talk about the General Schedule [pay scale], but we haven't talked about the Federal Wage Schedule system at all, which is the blue-collar system that encompasses about 200,000 federal employees. Pay compression means those guys get paid really well. That means some managers rightfully think, "I'd like to have full-time supervision over some role, but I would rather contract it out, because I can get it a heck of a lot cheaper."There's a continuous relationship: If we make the civil service more stultified, we're going to push contracting out into more areas where maybe it wouldn't be appropriate. But a lot of things are always going to be appropriate to contract out. That means we need to give contracting officers and the people overseeing contracts a lot of discretion to carry out their missions, and not a lot of oversight from the Government Accountability Office or the courts about their bids, just like we shouldn't give OPM excess input into the civil service hiring process.This is a theme I keep harping on, on Statecraft. It's counterintuitive from a reformer's perspective, but it's true: if you want these processes to function better, you're going to have to stop nitpicking. You're going to have to ease up on the throttle and let people make their own decisions, even when sometimes you're not going to agree with them.This is a tension that's obviously happening in this administration. You've seen some clear interest in decentralization, and you've seen some centralization. In both the contract and the civil service sphere, the goal for the central agencies should be giving as many options as possible to the local managers, making sure they don't go extremely off the rails, but then giving those local managers and contracting officials the ability to make their own choices. The General Services Administration (GSA) under this administration is doing a lot of government-wide acquisition contracts. “We establish a contract for the whole government in the GSA. Usually you, the local manager, are not required to use that contract if you want computer services or whatever, but it's an option for you.”OPM should take a similar role. "Here's the system we have set up. You can take that and use it as you want. It's here for you, but it doesn't have to be used, because you might have some very particular hiring decisions to make.” Just like there shouldn't be one contracting decision that decides how we buy both a sheaf of computer paper and an aircraft carrier, there shouldn't be one hiring and firing process for a janitor and a nuclear physicist. That can't be a centralized process, because the very nature of human life is that there's an infinitude of possibilities that you need to allow for, and that means some amount of decentralization.I had an argument online recently about New York City's “buy local” requirement for certain procurement contracts. When they want to build these big public toilets in New York City, they have to source all the toilet parts from within the state, even if they're $200,000 cheaper in Portland, Oregon.I think it's crazy to ask procurement and contracting to solve all your policy problems. Procurement can't be about keeping a healthy local toilet parts industry. You just need to procure the toilet.This is another area where you see similar overlap in some of the civil service and contracting issues. A lot of cities have residency requirements for many of their positions. If you work for the city, you have to live inside the city. In New York, that means you've got a lot of police officers living on Staten Island, or right on the line of the north side of the Bronx, where they're inches away from Westchester. That drives up costs, and limits your population of potential employees.One of the most amazing things to me about the Biden Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was that it encouraged contracting officers to use residency requirements: “You should try to localize your hiring and contracting into certain areas.” On a national level, that cancels out. If both Wyoming and Wisconsin use residency requirements, the net effect is not more people hired from one of those states! So often, people expect the civil service and contracting to solve all of our ills and to point the way forward for the rest of the economy on discrimination, hiring, pay, et cetera. That just leads to, by definition, government being a lot more expensive than the private sector.Over the next three and a half years, what would you like to see the administration do on civil service reform that they haven't already taken up?I think some of the broad-scale layoffs, which seem to be slowing down, were counterproductive. I do think that their ability to achieve their ends was limited by the nature of the reduction-in-force regulations, which made them more counterproductive than they had to be. That's the situation they inherited. But that didn't mean you had to lay off a lot of people without considering the particular jobs they were doing now.And hiring quite a few of them back.Yeah. There are also debates obviously, within the administration, between DOGE and Russ Vought [director of the OMB] and some others on this. Some things, like the Schedule Policy/Career — which is the revival of Schedule F in the first Trump administration — are largely a step in the right direction. Counter to some of the critics, it says, “You can remove someone if they're in a policymaking position, just like if they were completely at-will. But you still have to hire from the typical civil service system.” So, for those concerned about politicization, that doesn't undermine that, because they can't just pick someone from the party system to put in there. I think that's good.They recently had a suitability requirement rule that I think moved in the right direction. That says, “If someone's not suitable for the workforce, there are other ways to remove them besides the typical procedures.” The ideal system is going to require some congressional input: it's to have a decentralization of hiring authority to individual managers. Which means the OPM — now under Scott Kupor, who has finally been confirmed — saying, "The OPM is here to assist you, federal managers. Make sure you stay within the broad lanes of what the administration's trying to accomplish. But once we give you your general goals, we're going to trust you to do that, including hiring.”I've mentioned it a few times, but part of the Chance to Compete Act — which was mentioned in one of Trump's Day One executive orders, people forget about this — was saying, “Implement the Chance to Compete Act to the maximum extent of the law.” Bring more subject-matter expertise into the hiring process, allow more discretion for managers and input into the hiring process. I think carrying that bipartisan reform out is going to be a big step, but it's going to take a lot more work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.statecraft.pub

This week we return from our July break with episode 65 of Music in the Minor League. This episode brings us back to our near second home at this point: Fort Collins, CO. We'll be talking to Slp (pronounced 'slip') of Maudlyn Monroe.Classically trained, with a love for riot grrl and 70's NY punk, Maudlyn Monroe is a vocalist/guitarist/saxophonist/pianist with an up-tempo emo feel—an electrified lackadaisical punk. Their voice, with its three octave range, has been called "angelic" and "soulful", "bird-like" and "desperate", and lends to quiet folk contemplation, shocking soul, and raw punk sounds.We had an absolute blast spending an evening discussing music, life and so much else with Slp. If y'all have half as much fun listening as we did recording this one, this will be one of our most popular episodes. Enjoy!

Classical Christian education is a generational journey - and in this BaseCamp Live episode, we get a rare, behind-the-scenes glimpse of how a love for the true, good, and beautiful is passed from parent to child. Dr. Louis Markos, professor, author, and longtime advocate for the great books, is joined by his son Alex, now a humanities teacher, to share how formative family habits, road-trip literature, and a Christian worldview shaped Alex's path from public school to a deep embrace of the classics.Together, they explore why Christians should read pagan literature, the difference between formation and information, and how ancient texts can lead students toward truth and scripture. With memorable stories - from Marcus Aurelius-inspired dance moves to processing grief through The Iliad - this conversation offers both encouragement and practical ideas for parents and educators seeking to form thoughtful, faithful young people.

Read more: https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/go/piano-prodigy-executive-director-of-wenatchee-valley-symphonys-next-movement/article_ddb0cbb1-a1f4-4baa-9468-c0b30a8f664d.html Classically trained pianist and arts administrator Anton Zotov has taken the helm as executive director of the Wenatchee Valley Symphony Orchestra. In this conversation with The Wenatchee World’s Jessica Drake, Zotov discusses his journey from Ukraine to Wenatchee, his plans to expand programming and grow audiences, and his vision for the symphony as it enters its 79th season and prepares for its 80th anniversary.Support the show: https://www.wenatcheeworld.com/site/forms/subscription_services/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Abby Roth, aka, Classically Abby, joins Bethany and Kara to talk about being a “First-Generation SAHM” (Stay At Home Mom) Check out Abby's new Substack at thefirstgensahm.substack.com

Classically trained keyboardist, musical director, and nephew of gospel legend Andrae Crouch, Kenneth Crouch, joins Tavis in the studio for a career conversation about his backstory, the impact of jazz and gospel on his life, and what he wants his musical legacy to be.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tavis-smiley--6286410/support.

My guest on this weeks episode of One For The Road is Dave Graham. David is a professional musician and touring saxophonist with 1970s chart-toppers Showaddywaddy, a role he's proudly held since 2009. Classically trained at the Royal Northern College of Music and the University of Manchester, Dave has built a career spanning over 30 years, performing across the UK and Europe. Alongside his performance work, Dave spent over a decade as a music teacher, sharing his passion and expertise with students of all ages. He also founded and directed DG Music, one of the UK's leading music agencies, for 20 years—helping secure work for thousands of musicians nationwide. A committed community member, Dave has volunteered on the boards of several charities and organisations over the years.Now 54, he focuses on touring with Showaddywaddy and dedicates his weekdays to looking after both body and mind—keeping fit, working on his mental wellbeing, and maintaining a sober lifestyle since January 2024.Follow Dave on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/davegrahamsax/Catch Dave on tour with Showaddywaddy www.showaddywaddy.net/gigsIf you want to connect with me via Instagram, you can find me on the instahandle @Soberdave https://www.instagram.com/soberdave/or via my website https://davidwilsoncoaching.com/Provided below are links for services offering additional help and advice.www.drinkaware.co.uk/advice/alcohol-support-serviceshttps://nacoa.org.uk/Show producer- Daniella Attanasio-MartinezInstagram - @TheDaniellaMartinezhttps://www.instagram.com/thedaniellamartinez/www.instagram.com/grownuphustle Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dr. Jeffrey Collins, first-time guest and professor at the Hamilton Center at the University of Florida, joins Jonah Goldberg to explore the intellectual history of liberalism and its modern iterations. Show Notes:—Jeffrey Collins' bio—Daniel Burns' National Affairs Piece: "Liberal Practice v. Liberal Theory" The Remnant is a production of The Dispatch, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a non-partisan, conservative perspective. To access all of The Dispatch's offerings—including Jonah's G-File newsletter, regular livestreams, and other members-only content—click here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Torre Lott is a rising voice in hip-hop, known for his raw honesty and boundary-pushing sound. Hailing from the west side of Cleveland, he brings together street-level storytelling and real emotional depth—no gimmicks, just truth. His breakout track Reflections caught the attention of Kevin Abstract (of BROCKHAMPTON), and it's easy to see why: the beat hits hard, but it's Torre's vulnerability that really leaves a mark.Classically trained from a young age, Torre approaches music with a rare mix of discipline and creativity. He draws from hip-hop, metal, classical, and more, crafting songs that feel intentional and alive. His EP Reason One: The Rising Sun, made with longtime collaborator Rex Schirra, is a standout—moody, thoughtful, and made for people who actually want to listen, not just scroll.Torre isn't chasing trends or clout. He's been steadily building behind the scenes, forming real connections and letting the music speak for itself. As 2025 unfolds, he's dropping new singles, visuals, and at least one full project—but don't expect a formula. Every release is its own world, designed to hit deeper than just surface-level.For Torre, it's all about connection. “The music's one thing,” he says, “but what I care about most is that people feel it—like it speaks to something inside them.” With talent, vision, and a relentless work ethic, Torre Lott is carving out his own space in the culture—one track at a time.Highlights from Toby Gribben's Friday afternoon show on Shout Radio. Featuring chat with top showbiz guests. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is Episode 69 of the Consortium Podcast, an academic audio blog of Kepler Education. In this episode, Heatherly Sylvia delivers a breakout session on Homeschooling Classically: Beyond the Trivium. This lesson was given at the 2024 Consortium conference in Maynard, MA on July 12-13, 2024. Kepler's Consortiums provide resources and regional connections for Christian families, teachers, and educational organizations to expand the reach of classical education and foster human flourishing for generations to come. The New England Consortium of Classical Educators (NECCE) exists to point New England to the unifying Truth found in Christ and His creation, the Good of fellowship with like-minded individuals, and the Beauty reflected in great works of literature, science, and art, through teaching, conversation, and conferences. Heatherly Sylvia is passionate about the Word and words; her love of literature, language, and classical pedagogy is contagious. A passionate speaker, teacher, and mentor, she has a reputation for making difficult concepts approachable and practical. Heatherly is co-founder of the Classical Learning Consortium for New England (now NECCE) and lives with her husband and two children in Plymouth County, Massachusetts.

These days, it's all about having extra legs. Think about it: more legs means more fun. Especially if they're incoms! Though actually, that brings up an interesting point of discussion: the Trinity's legs are remote weapons on wires. Classically, we call those "incoms." But the show calls them "leg funnels." There's also the classic example of the Nu Gundam's "fin funnels." By the original definitions, if it's disposable it's a funnel, if it's reusable it's a bit, and if it's on a wire it's an incom. So the Nu Gundam's fin funnels are bits! Probably it is just a representation of how language evolves: over time, the distinction between "bits," "funnels," and "incoms" becomes less useful, and they simply all are called by the name of the most common form, the funnel. That's my guess. Also it's fun to shout "Funnels!" You can find a video version of this podcast for free on Scanline Media's Patreon! If you want to find us on Twitter, Dylan is @lowpolyrobot and Six is @sixdettmar. Our opening theme is the Hangar Theme from Gundam Breaker 3, and our ending theme for this episode is Resumption from Gundam Breaker 4. Our podcast art is a fantastic piece of work from Twitter artist @fenfelt. Want to see a list of every unit we've covered from every episode, including variants and tangents? It's right here. Units discussed: Trinity VGMM-La01a Dharma VGMM-La01b Dahack

Podcast Notes: Interview with Carson Bruce of The Worship Keys Episode Overview In this episode of the Church Front Worship and Tech Podcast, Luke Jackson interviews Carson Bruce, founder of The Worship Keys platform—a resource dedicated to helping keys players in worship settings improve their skills and understanding of their role. About Carson Bruce & The Worship Keys Founder of The Worship Keys platform, which focuses on four main areas: music theory, gear/software, ministry, and industry Classically trained pianist who now lives in Nashville The Worship Keys podcast releases weekly on Wednesdays, featuring interviews with keys players Origin Story Carson created the platform because he "wished something like this existed" when he was younger Piano has been central to his personal faith journey—often serving as his "prayer closet" Noticed a gap in resources specifically for worship keys players Essential Skills for Worship Pianists Heart Posture: "If your heart is not in ministry...you're not going to stay on that stage satisfied" Playing by Ear: Learning to listen and replicate what you hear is crucial Nashville Number System: Understanding music theory through the number system Ear Training: Practice playing unfamiliar worship songs by ear, then verify with chord charts Focus on Fundamentals: Learn to play well before worrying about gear Transitioning from Classical to Contemporary Classical training often emphasizes sight-reading and technical precision Worship contexts require playing by ear, improvisation, and band awareness Many pianists struggle with this transition because the learning approaches are fundamentally different Nashville Number System for Keys Players Despite some believing it's mainly useful for guitarists, Carson advocates for pianists using the Nashville Number System because: It facilitates whole-band communication Makes modulation easier Numbers are quicker to call out than complex chord names Works internationally across language barriers Promotes collaboration rather than piano-centric leadership Common Mistakes Worship Keys Players Make Overplaying the Low End: Creates muddiness when there's already a bass player Doing Too Much: Sometimes simplicity serves the song better Playing Full Triads in Both Hands: Consider simpler voicings like fifths or suspended chords Not Understanding Context: Different musical styles require different approaches Technology Tips Software Options MainStage: Good for Mac users, moderate learning curve Ableton Live: Most powerful but steeper learning curve Sunday Keys App: User-friendly iPad app with AI capabilities ($120) Hardware Highlight Atmosphere Pedal by Aerospace Audio: Physical pedal with high-quality atmospheric pads built in Allows pianists to trigger pads without needing a computer on stage Features 10 different pad sounds based on atmospheric layers Small footprint allows it to be placed directly on the keyboard Keys Players' Rigs Carson's typical setup includes: Arturia KeyLab MIDI controller MainStage software for sounds Focusrite 18i20 interface when running tracks Software from Sunday Sounds or Aerospace Audio for pads Decision-Making for Keys Equipment Carson's advice: If your keyboard works well, keep it and upgrade your sounds through software Consider Sunday Keys app for simplicity and ease of use MainStage for Mac users who want more control Ableton Live for those willing to invest time in learning a comprehensive system Use iPad apps when available to avoid complex computer setups Sunday Keys App Highlights Features AI-generated sounds based on text or emoji descriptions Allows easy sharing of setlists between multiple campuses Affordable one-time purchase with optional annual updates Limitation: Cannot currently import custom-created patches Artists That Inspire Carson Red Rocks Worship (particularly Spooky Scott) Elevation Rhythm (especially "Goodbye Yesterday") The Ramp Worship from Hamilton, Alabama Various gospel artists for technical inspiration Connect with The Worship Keys Instagram: @theworshipkeys YouTube: The Worship Keys Email: Carson@theworshipkeys.com Key Quotes "If you're not using the number system as a pianist, maybe you're not meaning to, but it's like you're trying to say one up almost." "It's like buying a Lamborghini and driving it in first gear everywhere you go." "The piano was once looked at as a secular instrument that you only play in the bars and the pubs, and then it was brought into the church and people had big problems with that." "A lot of times they're asking you to do less in a full band context." Apply to Join Churchfront Premium Apply to Join Churchfront Pro Free Worship and Production Toolkit Shop Our Online Courses Join us at the Churchfront Conference Follow Churchfront on Instagram or TikTok: @churchfront Follow on Twitter: @realchurchfront Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront Musicbed SyncID: MB01VWQ69XRQNSN  

What mindsets make someone successful? We discuss this and more with Sarah Hernholm, founder of WIT (Whatever It Takes), which teaches entrepreneurship to kids ages 12-18. Join us as we explore the intersection of education, youth empowerment, and the entrepreneurial mindset.

About the Guest: Dr. Fred PutnamFred Putnam retired after forty years of teaching high school, college, and graduate school; for twelve of those years he was Professor of Bible & Liberal Studies in the Templeton Honors College at Eastern University (2012-2024), where he helped to design, and taught in, the program leading to the MA in Teaching [MAT] in classical education. Beginning as a seminary professor of Biblical Hebrew and Koiné Greek, his teaching expanded to include not only the languages and interpretation of the Bible, but also linguistics, translation theory and practice, English literature, philosophy, etc. During those years of teaching, experiences with students led him from being a fairly conventional teacher (lectures, quizzes, tests, grades, attendance, etc.) to a text- (or subject-) and student-centered pedagogy that others have identified as “classical”. The main thrust of his teaching has always been helping students learn to read-learning to attend to, reflect on, and respond to texts, whatever those texts may be (including poems, novels, Scripture, works of art and music, etc.). In the Templeton Honors College, he led undergrad courses on the Old and New Testaments, Hebrew, Greek, and seminars on Joseph Pieper, The Count of Monte Christo, and philosophy of education, and five masters-level courses in the MAT: "Classical Pedagogy I: The Culture of the Classroom", "Philosophy & History of Education II: The American Public School System", "The Ethos of a School", "Drama in the Classical School (With an Emphasis on Shakespeare)", and "Teaching the Bible as a Classic Text" (online through the Templeton Honors College). While homeschooling their daughters, Fred and his wife met weekly with homeschooled high-schoolers; he taught Shakespeare, poetry, literature, philosophy, Hebrew, and Greek, while his wife tutored individual students in reading and creative writing. Born in New Hampshire, he grew up on farms in northeast Connecticut, emigrated to PA in 1970, and insists that he is a New Englander on "southern assignment". He knows that hills are made of granite, Guernseys give the best milk, and continues to await a real northern-style winter. An ordained minister, he preaches in various churches in southeastern Pennsylvania, where he and his wife live near their daughters and grandchildren, and where he also reads, translates and analyzes the Hebrew and Greek Bible, and putters. Show NotesIn this episode, Adrienne and Dr. Putnam discuss the seminal works of Josef Pieper. They also do a deep dive into what a beautiful way of teaching really looks like. Some highlights include:How Dr. Putnam teaches (What is classical pedagogy?)Teaching & learning are relational activities-- the teacher's view of a student is central to the pedagogyHis course: The Ethos of a School-- how a school can establish and maintain a humane identity even during major changesHow Pieper can help teachers understand virtues and their applications in teachingHow Pieper can help us understand what it really means to learn and how it affects being a teacherUnderstanding the nature of being a person and its implications for teachingResources MentionedAn Anthology by Josef PieperOnly the Lover Sings by Josef PieperLeisure, The Basis of Culture by Josef PieperThe Courage to Teach: The Inner Landscape of a Teacher's Life by Parker J. PalmerHow Children Learn by John HoltTeaching with Your Mouth Shutby Donald L. Finkel TedTalk: Kathryn Shultz on Being Wrong https://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong?language=en________________________________________________________Beautiful Teaching online courses:BT online webinars, interactive courses, and book studies registration: https://beautifulteaching.coursestorm.com/Reading Josef Pieper with Dr. Fred Putnam will take place on Thursday evenings Sept-Dec. Space is very limited. This is a seminar experience. Interaction with Dr. Putnam is essential for this online course. If you are interested in having this immersive experience with him, you can enroll here: https://beautifulteaching.coursestorm.com/course/reading-josef-pieper-with-fred-putnam________________________________________________________This podcast is produced by Beautiful Teaching, LLC.Support this podcast: ★ Support this podcast ★ _________________________________________________________Credits:Sound Engineer: Andrew HelselLogo Art: Anastasiya CFMusic: Vivaldi's Concerto for 2 Violins in B flat major, RV529 : Lana Trotovsek, violin Sreten Krstic, violin with Chamber Orchestra of Slovenian Philharmonic © 2025 Beautiful Teaching LLC. All Rights Reserve

This week Dalanie and Katie read through your confessions. IN THIS EPISODE: Video episodes are now available on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@classicallyblackpodcast PURCHASE OUR MERCH!: https://www.classicallyblackpodcast.com/store JOIN US ON PATREON! Our next Patreon exclusive livestream is on April 28th at 5:30pm PST https://patreon.com/ClassicallyBlackPodcast FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA! https://linktr.ee/classicallyblack Donate to ISBM! https://fundraising.fracturedatlas.org/international-society-of-black-musicians Check out our website: https://www.isblackmusicians.com

(00:00-31:17) We like good tidings. Tim's voice hits better than Folgers. Blues first round schedule is out. Sebastian Maniscalco & Katt Williams. Do the multiple days off benefit the Blues? Game 6 on a Friday night would be a pony. Doug and Martin in their pastels. Lower Arnold is a wiffleball hotbed. Dickie V at the MAC.(31:26-51:54) Canada is not a serious place. Favorite Canadians. Redbirds fall to the Mets. Audi of Oli Marmol spinning a positive from the loss. Classically trained in journalism. Audio from Jomboy talking about the Cardinals. Jackson can't attend The Plow Wedding. Maty Mauk new football coach at Principia High School. (52:03-1:05:21) People are sending in pictures of their wives for The Real Housewives of TMA. What's the age range on this thing? We failed to help The Baseball Bachelor. Lix says BBB can't get in. This is Daddy's time of year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

(00:00-31:17) We like good tidings. Tim's voice hits better than Folgers. Blues first round schedule is out. Sebastian Maniscalco & Katt Williams. Do the multiple days off benefit the Blues? Game 6 on a Friday night would be a pony. Doug and Martin in their pastels. Lower Arnold is a wiffleball hotbed. Dickie V at the MAC. (31:26-51:54) Canada is not a serious place. Favorite Canadians. Redbirds fall to the Mets. Audi of Oli Marmol spinning a positive from the loss. Classically trained in journalism. Audio from Jomboy talking about the Cardinals. Jackson can't attend The Plow Wedding. Maty Mauk new football coach at Principia High School. (52:03-1:05:21) People are sending in pictures of their wives for The Real Housewives of TMA. What's the age range on this thing? We failed to help The Baseball Bachelor. Lix says BBB can't get in. This is Daddy's time of year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For more information on our Classically based gap year program for college freshmen, go to www.worldviewcrux.orgReferenced in this article, news source on kindergarten students being taught gender ideology: https://www.californiafamily.org/2024/10/parents-sue-school-after-son-forced-to-teach-gender-ideology-to-kindergartners/

Episode 188: RSV Management and PreventionDr. Sandhu and future Dr. Mohamed summarize the management of RSV and describe how to prevent it with chemoprophylaxis and vaccines. Dr Arreaza adds some comments about RSV vaccines.Written by Abdolhakim Mohamed, MSIV, Ross University School of Medicine. Comments by Ranbir Sandhu, MD, and Hector Arreaza, MD.You are listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast, your weekly dose of knowledge brought to you by the Rio Bravo Family Medicine Residency Program from Bakersfield, California, a UCLA-affiliated program sponsored by Clinica Sierra Vista, Let Us Be Your Healthcare Home. This podcast was created for educational purposes only. Visit your primary care provider for additional medical advice.What is RSV? -The Respiratory syncytial Virus (RSV) is an enveloped, negative-sense, single-stranded RNA virus of the Orthopneumovirus genus within the Pneumoviridae family. -RSV is a major cause of acute respiratory tract infections, particularly bronchiolitis and pneumonia, in infants and young children, and it also significantly affects older adults and immunocompromised individuals. -RSV infections cause an estimated 58,000–80,000 hospitalizations among children younger than 5 years and 60,000–160,000 hospitalizations among adults older than 65 years each year.-RSV is highly contagious and spreads through respiratory droplets and direct contact with contaminated surfaces. The virus typically causes seasonal epidemics, peaking in the winter months in temperate climates and during the rainy season in tropical regions. -Virtually all children are infected with RSV by the age of two, and reinfections can occur throughout life, often with milder symptoms.-Per the 2014 Clinical Practice Guideline: The Diagnosis, Management, and Prevention of Bronchiolitis, from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the most common etiology of bronchiolitis is RSV. -About 97% of children are infected with RSV in the first 2 years of life, about 40% will experience lower respiratory tract infection during the initial infection. Other viruses that cause bronchiolitis include human rhinovirus, human metapneumovirus, influenza, adenovirus, coronavirus, and parainfluenza viruses.When is RSV season?-Classically, the highest incidence of infection occurs between December and March in North America. Per CDC, there were typical prepandemic RSV season patterns, but the COVID-19 pandemic disrupted RSV seasonality during 2020–2022. -Before we dive into the seasonality patterns, for context, in order to describe RSV seasonality in the US, data was gathered and analyzed from polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test results reported to the National Respiratory and Enteric Virus Surveillance System (NREVSS) during July 2017–February 2023. -Seasonal RSV epidemics were defined as the weeks during which the percentage of PCR test results that were positive for RSV was ≥3%. Per 2017–2020 data, RSV epidemics in the United States typically follow seasonal patterns, that began in October, peaked in December or January, and ended in April. -However, during 2020–21, the typical winter RSV epidemic did not occur. The 2021–22 season began in May, peaked in July, and ended in January. -The 2022–23 season started (June) and peaked (November) later than the 2021–22 season, but earlier than prepandemic seasons. CDC notes that the timing of the 2022–23 season suggests that seasonal patterns are returning toward those observed in prepandemic years, however, warn that clinicians should be aware that off-season RSV circulation might continue.Treatment of RSVSome key points of the 2014 pediatric guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatrics.-AAP strongly do not recommend beta agonists or steroids for viral associated bronchiolitis because of no significant improved outcomes. “Clinicians should not administer albuterol (or salbutamol) to infants and children with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Strong Recommendation).”-Epinephrine is not recommended for infants and children with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Strong Recommendation).-Nebulized hypertonic saline should not be administered to infants with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis in the emergency department (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Moderate Recommendation), but hypertonic saline may be administered when they are hospitalized (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Weak Recommendation [based on randomized controlled trials with inconsistent findings]).-Chest physiotherapy should not be used in infants and children with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Moderate Recommendation).-Antibiotics should not be administered in bronchiolitis unless there is a concomitant bacterial infection, or a strong suspicion of one (Evidence Quality: B; Recommendation Strength: Strong Recommendation).-Oxygen therapy may not be administered if the oxyhemoglobin saturation exceeds 90% in infants and children with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis (Evidence Quality: D; Recommendation Strength: Weak Recommendation [based on low level evidence and reasoning from first principles]).-Clinicians should administer nasogastric or intravenous fluids for infants with a diagnosis of bronchiolitis who cannot maintain hydration orally (Evidence Quality: X; Recommendation Strength: Strong Recommendation).How do we prevent RSV?Infant Immuno-prophylaxis:A clinical trial in 2022 demonstrated that a single injection of nirsevimab (Beyfortus®), administered before the RSV season, protected healthy late-preterm and term infants from RSV-associated lower respiratory tract that required medical treatment. Nirsevimab is a monoclonal antibody to the RSV fusion protein that has an extended half-life.Additionally, on August 3, 2023, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommended nirsevimab for all infants younger than 8 months who are born during or entering their first RSV season and for infants and children between 8-19 months who are at increased risk for severe RSV disease and are entering their second RSV season. On the basis of pre-COVID-19 pandemic patterns, nirsevimab could be administered in most of the continental United States from October through the end of March.Maternal Vaccination: The CDC recommends the administration of the RSVPreF vaccine to pregnant women between 32 0/7 and 36 6/7 weeks of gestation. This vaccination aims to reduce the risk of RSV-associated lower respiratory tract infection in infants during the first 6 months of life.At this time, if a pregnant woman has already received a maternal RSV vaccine during any previous pregnancy, CDC does not recommend another dose of RSV vaccine during subsequent pregnancies.Older individuals: -Each year in the U.S., it is estimated that between 60,000 and 160,000 older adults are hospitalized and between 6,000 and 10,000 die due to RSV infection-ABRYSVO's approval will help offer older adults protection in the RSV season.-On June 26, 2024, ACIP voted to give these recommendations: all adults older than 75 years and adults between 60–74 years who are at increased risk for severe RSV disease should receive a single dose of RSV vaccine (Abrysvo®).Even without trying, every night you go to bed a little wiser. Thanks for listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast. We want to hear from you, send us an email at RioBravoqWeek@clinicasierravista.org, or visit our website riobravofmrp.org/qweek. See you next week! _____________________References:Hamid S, Winn A, Parikh R, et al. Seasonality of Respiratory Syncytial Virus — United States, 2017–2023. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2023;72:355–361. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm7214a1Hammitt LL, Dagan R, Yuan Y, Baca Cots M, Bosheva M, Madhi SA, Muller WJ, Zar HJ, Brooks D, Grenham A, Wählby Hamrén U, Mankad VS, Ren P, Takas T, Abram ME, Leach A, Griffin MP, Villafana T; MELODY Study Group. Nirsevimab for Prevention of RSV in Healthy Late-Preterm and Term Infants. N Engl J Med. 2022 Mar 3;386(9):837-846. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa2110275. PMID: 35235726.Ralston SL, Lieberthal AS, Meissner HC, Alverson BK, Baley JE, Gadomski AM, Johnson DW, Light MJ, Maraqa NF, Mendonca EA, Phelan KJ, Zorc JJ, Stanko-Lopp D, Brown MA, Nathanson I, Rosenblum E, Sayles S 3rd, Hernandez-Cancio S; American Academy of Pediatrics. Clinical practice guideline: the diagnosis, management, and prevention of bronchiolitis. Pediatrics. 2014 Nov;134(5):e1474-502. doi: 10.1542/peds.2014-2742. Erratum in: Pediatrics. 2015 Oct;136(4):782. doi: 10.1542/peds.2015-2862. PMID: 25349312.CDC, per their published article Seasonality of Respiratory Syncytial Virus — United States for 2017–2023, in the United StatesWhat U.S. Obstetricians Need to Know About Respiratory Syncytial Virus.Debessai H, Jones JM, Meaney-Delman D, Rasmussen SA. Obstetrics and Gynecology. 2024;143(3):e54-e62. doi:10.1097/AOG.0000000000005492.Maternal Respiratory Syncytial Virus Vaccination and Receipt of Respiratory Syncytial Virus Antibody (Nirsevimab) by Infants Aged

ABOUT RACHEL:Rachel McVay is an American actor rooted in UK training. Classically trained, with an MFA from the prestigious Bristol Old Vic Theatre School and a BFA in Theatre & Dance, Rachel also studied with the Royal Shakespeare Company and RADA. She has made her mark as a dynamic stage, TV, & film actor, often employing her skills in stunts, stage combat, and dance.With an affinity for Shakespeare, Tarantino, and Ryan Murphy, Rachel's proudest roles include the "fierce" Queen Elizabeth in Richard III, the "magnificent" & "regal" Beatrice in Much Ado About Nothing ("McVay stands out as Beatrice"), and the lead in the award-winning film, Broken Nails, in which she plays a boxer/dancer who struggles with self love in overcoming cancer.Some of her TV credits include Westworld, Forever, and The United States of Tara. Teaching/directing credits include Northern Stage, Stagedoor Manor, Bristol Old Vic Theatre School's Young Artists Academy, A Noise Within, Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp, amongst others across the country.Connect with Rachel on social:https://www.instagram.com/therachelmcvay/www.imdb.me/rachelmcvayConnect with me and learn about my services at Hollywood Bound Actors:⁠https://hollywoodboundactors.com/⁠Learn about my signature course Book More TV ® https://bookmoretv.com/

Emily Williams, dean of faculty at Kootenai Classical Academy in Post Falls, Idaho, delivers a lecture on the history of science education and how teaching classically can help students strive for what is true, good, and beautiful. This lecture was given at the Hoogland Center for Teacher Excellence seminar, “The Art of Teaching: The Sciences” in November 2024. The Hoogland Center for Teacher Excellence, an outreach of the Hillsdale College K-12 Education Office, offers educators the opportunity to deepen their content knowledge and refine their skills in the classroom.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Carolyn Kendrick tells Taj about her relationship to music and coming to trust herself. • Come to Portugal for RISK!'s 15th Anniversary in May 2025: risk-show.com/portugal • Pitch us your story! risk-show.com/submissions • Support RISK! through Patreon at patreon.com/risk or make a one-time donation: paypal.me/riskshow • Get tickets to RISK! live shows: risk-show.com/live • Get the RISK! Book and shop for merch: risk-show.com/shop • Take our storytelling classes: thestorystudio.org • Hire Kevin Allison as a coach or get personalized videos: kevinallison.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Janice Kaplan is the guest of Tune Into Happiness, today's MIndfulness Mode episode. She is a journalist, TV producer, and the author of fifteen popular books, including the New York Times bestseller The Gratitude Diaries. Her upcoming book, What Your Body Knows About Happiness: How to Use Your Body to Change Your Mind, releasing January 7, 2025, explores the groundbreaking connection between body and mind in creating joy. A former editor-in-chief of Parade magazine, Janice has produced over thirty primetime TV specials and appeared frequently on national TV shows. With her signature humor and storytelling, she brings science to life, empowering readers to use their bodies to unlock creativity, positivity, and everyday happiness. Listen & Subscribe on: iTunes / Stitcher / Podbean / Overcast / Spotify Contact Info Website: www.JaniceKaplan.com Book: What Your Body Knows About Happiness: How to Use Your Body to Change Your Mind Most Influential Person Daniel Gilbert, Harvard Psychology Department Daniel Kahneman, nobel prize winner and behavioral psychologist Effect on Emotions I have been able to deal with my emotions differently as a result of my research.  That started with The Gratitude Diaries because I realize that we can control the way we feel about things. Classically, we can't control the things that happen but we can control how we deal with them. Thoughts on Breathing I don't personally have a breath-work practice but I know it can help enormously.  I was with some folks the other day who had two little kids, a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old. The kids were running around and the parents stopped the children and ask them to breathe in 1,2,3 and breathe out 1,2,3. The kids had obviously done this before. The 4-year-old said, no Daddy, we breathe in for 4 counts.   Suggested Resources Book: The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness by Antonio Damasio Book: How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain Lisa Feldman Barrett Book: A Philosophy of Walking by Frederick Gros  App: n/a  Related Episodes Find Peace With 365 Days of Happiness; Jacqueline Pirtle Booster Shot of Happiness; Soren Russow The Future of Happiness With Amy Blankson

"I left my corporate job to dive in with the idea to start rapping and playing violin." -Zac Clejan Welcome to another exciting episode of the Turmeric & Tequila Podcast! I'm your host, Kristen Olson, and today, we're thrilled to have Zac Clejan, the incredible "trap violinist," join us. Zac's unique fusion of classical violin and hip-hop is making waves in the music scene. In this episode, Zac shares his inspiring journey from a tough childhood and strained family relationships to quitting his corporate job just before COVID to fully commit to his musical dreams. We'll discuss the importance of self-belief, persistence, and building a supportive community. Zac offers insights into his creative process, blending rap and violin, and discusses the essential business skills needed for independent artists to succeed. A special thanks to our sponsors—Lux Neuro, Declan James Watches, and Colorado Clownfish Swim School. So, grab your turmeric latte or favorite tea, and let's dive into this powerful episode! Time Stamps: 00:00 Classically trained musician combines hip hop violin. 03:24 Podcast emphasizes mental health, creative outlets' importance. 07:34 Self-education and embracing failure for growth. 12:45 Business skills crucial for creatives' success. 15:31 Success requires unseen hard work and mentorship. 17:52 Learning music independently through social media platforms. 20:53 Trust small community; ignore broader industry opinions. 23:03 Quit job pre-COVID, utilized support for music. 25:49 Writing driven by intense emotions and experiences. 30:24 Focus on your journey, avoid comparisons. 35:00 Developed unique style: violin and vocal hook. 36:05 Uniting communities through music, bridging exclusive gaps. 40:19 Two albums coming soon; check social links 44:36 Zach inspires entrepreneurs; a mentor through music. 45:44 Outro   Zac Clejan: Clejan is an American rapper, singer, songwriter and classically trained violinist from Atlanta, GA. Gaining notoriety for his uniquely blended style of music, He has appeared on the Kelly Clarkson Show, opened up for Busta Rhymes, Snoop Dogg, French Montana & Soulja Boy, all helping his social following grow to over 1.5 million under his handle @thetrapviolinist. He has released 75+ original songs to this date with millions of streams across platforms. https://clejan.com/ https://x.com/clejanmusic https://www.instagram.com/thetrapviolinist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@thetrapviolinist   Connect with T&T: IG: @TurmericTequila Facebook: @TurmericAndTequila Website: www.TurmericAndTequila.com Host: Kristen Olson IG: @Madonnashero Tik Tok: @Madonnashero Website: www.KOAlliance.com WATCH HERE   MORE LIKE THIS: https://youtu.be/ZCFQSpFoAgI?si=Erg8_2eH8uyEgYZF   https://youtu.be/piCU9JboWuY?si=qLdhFKCGdBzuAeuI  https://youtu.be/9Vs2JDzJJXk?si=dpjV31GDqTroUKWH

As many Jews deepen their sense of Jewish identity, Dr. Mijal Bitton joins the podcast to explore the significance of our Jewish heritage, texts, and peoplehood and what it means as we enter the Hanukkah season. Bitton is a sociologist, storyteller, podcast host, and Jewish advocate who also serves as the spiritual leader of the Downtown Minyan in Manhattan.  As one of the first Sacks Scholars, she helps young people reclaim and reimagine Jewish traditions. In this week's episode, Dr. Bitton discusses  Sephardic Jewry, Jewish peoplehood, academia, the needs of young Jews, and the realities of intergroup and interfaith after October 7. Resources: The Morality and Ethics of Global Jewish Advocacy: Lessons from Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks - AJC Advocacy Anywhere Jewish Unpacked - Wondering Jews podcast, with guest AJC CEO Ted Deutch Listen – AJC Podcasts: The Forgotten Exodus: with Hen Mazzig, Einat Admony, and more. People of the Pod:  The Next Chapter in Catholic-Jewish Relations What's Next for the Abraham Accords Under President Trump? Honoring Israel's Lone Soldiers This Thanksgiving: Celebrating Service and Sacrifice Away from Home The ICC Issues Arrest Warrants: What You Need to Know Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. __ Transcript of Conversation with Mijal Bitton: Manya Brachear Pashman:   Dr. Mijal Bitton is a sociologist, storyteller and Jewish advocate. As the spiritual leader of the Downtown Minyan in Manhattan and one of the first Sacks Scholars, she helps young people reclaim and reimagine Jewish traditions.  Michal is no stranger to our AJC audiences. Earlier this month, she delivered a powerful Advocacy Anywhere to commemorate Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks, for which the Sacks Scholars are, of course named.  And as co-host of Jewish Unpacked's podcast Wondering Jews, she and Jewish educator Noah Weisman explore questions we all ask about the Jewish experience, from the mundane to the miraculous. In fact, just recently, they interviewed AJC CEO Ted Deutch. The podcast has covered topics spanning from how summer camp shapes Jewish lives, how to constantly juggle joy and pain, the impact of the Jewish vote in the most recent election, and in turn, the impact of Trump's resulting victory on Jewish America. Mijal is with us now in our Midtown Manhattan studio to rehash a little of that, but also to discuss what led her to take on her many roles, including her newest project. Mijal, welcome to People of the Pod. Mijal Bitton:  Thank you, thank you for having me. Manya Brachear Pashman:   If you could please share with our listeners about your heritage, about your upbringing. You were born in Argentina, correct?  Mijal Bitton: I was born in Argentina. My father's family moved to Argentina from Morocco and Syria. My mother is from Spain. And part of what shaped my interest in Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, is that when we moved to America, we moved to a Persian Jewish community. So that was like my introduction to American Jews, this very tight knit Persian community in Long Island.  Eventually, I met my husband, who is a Syrian Jew, with Egyptian and Iraqi background, and I wrote my PhD on the Syrian Jewish community in Brooklyn, which all just shows you a little bit my fascination. It's not just an identity, it's a tradition that I draw from and that I believe can actually give us very powerful tools right now. Manya Brachear Pashman:  Now, is this a Syrian Jewish community from Aleppo or Damascus?  Mijal Bitton: Historically, there is a big difference. I would say that a lot of these communities, you can think of them as pre-immigration and then new settlement in America. Right now in America, it's one community. The differences between Aleppo and Damascus are not that pronounced, maybe like when you cook a little bit the recipe that you use, or slightly different songs that you might have, depending where your family is from. Manya Brachear Pashman:  You are, in fact, a visiting researcher at NYU, and you are the director of the National Study of the Sephardic and Mizrahi in the United States. What is that study all about? Mijal Bitton: Yeah. So when I wanted to do a PhD at NYU, which I did, on Syrian Jews, and I wanted to study Sephardic Jews, what I realized very quickly, and you might have seen this from your other podcast, is that there is very little good scholarship, good literature to explain to us who these Jews are. This is a problem, both in terms of historical research, and for me, I'm really interested in contemporary Jewish life.  There was a huge gap of not having resources to understand Sephardic Jews in the United States. So I had to do my PhD, kind of trying to reconstruct, you know, even, like the categories of study, how do we think about Jewish observance and really religiosity with Jews from the Middle East. So this study is an early attempt by early I mean, we hope it's the first of many studies to begin to tease out the main pillars of what we need to know to understand Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews roughly.  And again, we'll go into this more in the actual report, which will come out in a couple of months, roughly 10% of American Jews are Sephardic or Mizrahi, very similar to, let's say, the Orthodox Jewish population, the Russian-speaking Jewish population, but much less understood, much less studied. So it's an important first attempt to begin to lay out the foundations of knowledge. Manya Brachear Pashman:  So would you say that study is overdue?  Mijal Bitton: Yes, very much overdue. I think it's overdue for many reasons. One of them is that in the American Jewish community we've had for many years now, conversations around diversity, around inclusion and the like. And Sephardic Jews have not really been part of this conversation. Or let me say this with more precision, they have not been part of this conversation in terms that they would want to be part of this conversation. Maybe I'll be a little bit more explicit as to what I mean.  Many of the Jews that we've cited that I know tend to reflect more socially conservative, Middle Eastern forms of Jewish life, and these communities don't fit in very neatly in diversity efforts that tend to align with progressive understandings of diversity. So that means that there's been a real gap in how Sephardic Jews are included or not included in many spaces that are trying to be more inclusive. So we really believe that diversity is not easy, and that it begins with listening and understanding, who are the individuals and communities that we want to include.  Manya Brachear Pashman:  I mean, how does kind of a deeper and broader knowledge of one's Jewish identity, one's Jewish history, how does your deeper and broader knowledge of your identity and history help you be a better advocate? And how can it help others be better Jewish advocates? Mijal Bitton: That's a great question. So you know, you mentioned before that I started a weekly Jewish wisdom Substack. It's called Committed and I'll be grateful to share the link with everyone. The first piece that I wrote there on Genesis was actually about Jewish pride, and it was an idea that I had been thinking for a long time about, and it was that, especially since October 7, I have been in all of these spaces with people who are newly reawakened, energized, outraged about what's been happening. And they speak constantly about the need for Jewish pride, Jewish pride. We need more Jewish pride, more Jewish pride, more Jewish pride.  And on the one hand, I love that. I love that awakening. It resonates with me strongly. On the other hand, I had like this little voice whispering to me, because, as a sociologist, I've actually done research that talks about pride as something, I want to try to say this carefully, as something that is sometimes the last thing a group holds on to before assimilating fully.  So in very simplistic terms, if you think about Italian Americans or Irish Americans right over three or four generations in this country, they will slowly lose a lot of their communal elements. They will move away from their neighborhoods. They will stop only cooking Italian food. They will stop working in certain professions. But they will still have a little bit of that Irish pride in St Patrick's Day.  So I have been concerned when we speak about Jewish pride, that Jewish pride can be seen as unsustainable if we don't know what we are proud of. There is a world of a difference between someone who says there's something here, that seems really good, and I think I'm proud. I'm proud. And it's different that if you're standing there and you say, I am proud of a heritage spanning 1000s of years, I stand on the shoulders of giants. I am continuing a legacy of Jews who have survived persecutions, who've survived assimilation, who've survived living in different countries and in different times, and I am holding all of this when I stand up as a Jew. That, to me, is the kind of confident pride that can help us as advocates when we are facing challenges, because we are facing challenges and we're going to continue to face challenges. So we desperately need that sense of Jewish history, that sense of spiritual sustenance. We have to know what we are proud of, what we are fighting for. Manya Brachear Pashman:  You wrote a piece shortly after October 7, and it was titled, The Pain You're Feeling is Peoplehood. And it was incredibly powerful. It went viral. Because it so perfectly captured what so many Jews were feeling at that moment. And for those who haven't read it, can you share what led you to write it and kind of summarize it for our listeners. Mijal Bitton: I lead a community, I'm the spiritual leader of a community called the Downtown Minyan. And like many spiritual leaders and clergy on that Simchat Torah. I had to, you know, I'm not saying anything new. Here I was, I was heartbroken, reeling. I don't use a phone on Shabbat didn't always happening. My family in Israel, the reports that were coming in, I felt like my soul, my heart was being ripped. I think many of us felt this. And I had a Shul to run, and I had to figure out, like, what Jewish wisdom can I use right now? And it was very primal and instinctive.  There was a teaching that I had taught before because I thought it was important, but at that moment, it felt essential, and it just like, came out. I stood in front of my community who were in pain, and I wanted to give them names to explain what was happening. And I described, I use a very famous teaching by Rav Soloveichik, who speaks about who asked the question, can we still speak of ourselves as Jewish people, even with all of our diversity and differences and disagreements?  And it brings up a Talmudic question about, if you have a man of two heads, is this considered one person or two? And it's a complicated question, if you take it seriously, and he offers a gruesome test to figure this out. You pour boiling water on one head, and then you look at the other, and if it cries out in pain, it is one people. If it doesn't, it is two. The reason that this teaching was important for me to say, and I think the reason you said it went viral is because, you know. I haven't said this like this before, so I am expressing this now, thinking with you. I think for very long, for us Jews in America, we have been pushed and compelled to think of Judaism along Protestant religious terms.  What I mean by this, it's a faith, it's a set of beliefs, it's a value system. It has to fit in like some universalistic framework, and that pain that we felt on October 7 was different. It was a reminder that to be a Jew is to be part of a family. That it doesn't matter how different we are from each other, how much we disagree. When your relative is in pain, you cry with them. And it's almost like that pain, to me was like a way of saying we are reminded that we're part of a family. And there's something. I don't have the right words here. There's something almost to treasure about the pain, because it reminds us that we are connected to each other, committed to each other, responsible for each other.  And I think we all felt it, and it took away some of the layers of conditioning that many of us have had, to pretend like we aren't a family. That's what I think was one of the things that were so powerful about the tragedy that we all experienced. Manya Brachear Pashman:  Yeah, because we're so trained to be individuals, right, especially here in America, right, that individual spirit, and that's, that's not part of peoplehood. Or is it? I don't know. Maybe that's not the point.  Mijal Bitton: Yeah, listen, I think our tradition is amazing and complex, and there's strands of faith that brings up individualism and agency, but there's powerful strengths that talk about us as a family, as a collective, as a tribe, and there's powerful elements in our culture that have been pushing against that. And in many parts of our community, I think we drank the Kool Aid and we said we are not like, you know, that's backwards. That's not who we are anymore.  And then we were reminded that there's something there that we all felt was true. It existed before October 7, but I think October 7 kind of like woke it up. When I've shared this metaphor of the two headed men with people, many of them have offered an objection, and they've said, how awful is it for us to speak about who we are based on antisemitism? It shouldn't have to be like that. But, I mean, I would agree with that critique on theoretical terms. On sociological human terms, there is nothing that is more potent than having a shared enemy, a shared tragedy. Think about a family again, how tragedy brings us together.  So I think that unfortunately, the fact that there is still antisemitism vibrant in our societies and our streets has served to continue to reinforce that initial sense that we had after October 7. Of course, there are rifts. We can talk about debates that are happening. We are not as united as right after the tragedy. But, you know, I wrote a piece for CNN basically saying that the virulent anti semitism in the anti-Zionist movement is creating more Zionists. It's creating more Jewish solidarity. And it hasn't gone away. I am a religious woman. When I pray to God, I ask God that God should give us the challenge of having to remain connected in good times. I prefer that, but being that we don't have that right now, I do think that we have to double down on what our response is. Manya Brachear Pashman:  You wrote another piece for CNN that had to do with the anti-Israel protests on university campuses and the fear that it was inducing in so many Jewish young people, and the solidarity that was coming out of that. So with that in mind, one thing that the Jewish communal world is experiencing, we're certainly seeing it here at AJC, is an influx in involvement. Not just solidarity, but activism and advocacy, people who want to be more involved. Have you given any thought to this influx, and whether or not the infrastructure is in place here in America especially, to kind of sustain that, that level of involvement and activism.  Mijal Bitton: So one of the things that I've seen, and I'll be honest, that I'm still trying to understand it, but one of the things that I'm seeing is, there's, there's the thing called the organized Jewish community, okay? And it's a powerful ecosystem, you know, with lovers of power and influence. And I'm also privy, partially because of my work with young Jews, to a whole world of people who are wanting to be active, but who either don't have the access or the orientation to do so, you know, within the organized Jewish community And for me, part of what's still missing are the bridges between these different ecosystems. There's all of these people who are active on social media, right? The world of influencers, there's these groups of young Jews who are creating pop up Shabbat dinners, like all over the place, and like creating new clubs to celebrate Shabbat with each other and Jewish identity. And there is a lot of energy there. And what I'm trying to figure out is, I'm thinking of this as almost two powerful ecosystems, and I think that they would both be more powerful if they're in better conversation with each other.  So that, to me, again, it's a little bit abstract. I'm still thinking it through. I am a scholar in residence at the Maimonides Fund, and this is one of the questions that I have right now in this post-October 7 world: what would it mean to better bridge between these different ecosystems? Manya Brachear Pashman:  We just talked about the campus protests and the solidarity that they fuel, and we've also talked about the lack of research and scholarship out there about Jews in the Middle East and and North Africa and the diversity of the Jewish community. Do you think if young people had a better grasp of the thousands of years of history, of Jewish history in the Middle East, do you think that would shift the conversation at all, that education? And I don't mean obviously just within the Jewish community, I mean more broadly. Mijal Bitton: I mean, broadly speaking, yeah. So I would say two things I take to heart with my friend Haviv Retig Gur, who's a brilliant analyst. He speaks a lot about the fact that Jews, we don't know our own story. And I do think there is, like, huge lack of literacy in understanding that there were nearly 1 million Jews all across the Middle East and North Africa, and they left, fled, or were expelled in like massive Arab nationalist, anti-Zionist regimes that were propped up across the region. So I do think that for people to know these stories would be incredibly powerful.  I do want to note something, though, as someone who has been active in academia, I still have one foot there. I think that in many places, and we need to not be naive. In many places, people have vested interest in certain narratives, and they are emotionally attached to this narrative, and they have no incentive to change them, no matter how many counterfactuals you provide to them.  So there are definitely many parts in academia that want to think of the world as divided between the oppressors and the oppressed, and who want to think of Jews and Israel and Zionists as aligned with the oppressors, who they equate to Europeans and white and Westerners. And no matter how many counterfactuals you will give to them, they will find a way again, and I'm happy to explain this. They will find ways to make it fit into their narrative.  So we need a multi-pronged approach. One approach is to give the literacy to those who are seeking it as a way to have greater strength and intellectual tools at their disposal. Also, there's like a huge middle to convince, you know that can be moved. And when it comes to those ideologues, we have to battle their narratives. Manya Brachear Pashman:  In other words, offering that literacy to the Jewish community first, to those who actually want it, who are curious enough to want it, that's step one.  Mijal Bitton: Yeah, Jewish community, friends of the Jewish community, people who are intellectually honest and want to have a better discourse around Israel, the Middle East and current reality. Manya Brachear Pashman:  So Mijal, I am curious how your conversations have changed and evolved since October 7. Initially I wanted to ask you about interfaith dialog, but maybe intercultural dialog is a better way to put it. But did you have more intercultural dialog before October 7 or after October 7, or is your work really immersed in the Jewish community and Jewish dialog? Mijal Bitton: Yeah, so I would say like this: I think before October 7, I had spent many years focused on interfaith work. I think that the interfaith work was often anchored in more liberal and progressive spaces, and many of those efforts really imploded. And I think that I represent, because I've heard this from so many people who basically said, we've invested years into showing up for others and into relationships. And then if I can't get someone to say that–you don't need to like Israel, you don't need to like Netanyahu, but just that Hamas raping and murdering is wrong and evil–then what am I doing here? So I think that definitely, I have been affected by that, by seeing that.  And right now, I think we're in a place a year out when there is new energy in trying to figure out, okay, like, who are those people that we can still talk to, and they exist. And also I think that, and this is like work that is ongoing, there is a real sense that we need to re-examine the work that we were doing. Perhaps we were investing in the wrong interfaith relationships and spaces. Which doesn't mean interfaith work is bad, but maybe we need to invest in other parts of interfaith work. Manya Brachear Pashman:  Can you expand on that a little bit? Mijal Bitton: I mean, yeah, this is like, personal. I am not going to be spending time in interfaith work with people who give Hamas a pass. I'll just say this, you know, like that. And I think there's a lot for me. I am much more interested right now in pursuing relationships with socially conservative leaders of other faiths, that perhaps in the past, we wouldn't have been in the same tables around interfaith work and who have spoken up with clarity when it comes to defending Jews and speaking up against antisemitism.  This doesn't mean, again, I don't want to imply that we should walk away from spaces you said before, it's important to have people fighting in many different areas. I think the real question we have to ask ourselves is, what are the lines, that if they are crossed, we walk away? Because I think too many Jews, for too long, have stayed in spaces where our basic story, dignity and humanity, was trampled, and we accepted that price. And that is not something we can do anymore.  So we have to figure out, how do we reconfigure relationships? How do we stand up for ourselves in different ways? How do we, and I'll say this: in many places Jews showed up and agreed to, you know, like, pound their chest about, like, their white Jewish privilege as a price of entry into coalitions and relationships in ways that just were not honest. We need to fight all of this. Manya Brachear Pashman:  You recently hosted AJC CEO Ted Deutch on your podcast Wondering Jews, and I'm curious what you learned from that exchange with him, both on and off the air. Mijal Bitton: Yeah, it was wonderful. I co-host the podcast Wondering Jews with Noam  Weissman, and it was really nice. I mentioned this on that episode, but I have a very fond personal memory of my first encounter with Ted. It was the March in Washington. I was one of their earliest featured speakers at the March. You know, 300,000 people in person, many watching live. And I was very nervous. And I was like, pacing behind backstage. And I see Ted.  I've never met him before, but I had read about him. And when I read about him, I was very curious. I'm like, who leaves sitting Congress to go and work for the Jews? So I was already, fascinated by like, who would make this career switch? And then I saw him, and I don't know why, I turned to him, and I asked him if I could practice with him. And he literally had me practice my speech. I memorized it, and I practiced, and he gave me some feedback, and I changed some of the words, and his wife lent me a hostage tag necklace because I wanted to have one on stage. And it was early days, I didn't have one.  So my first encounter with him was that it felt like a very personal one, and that's what came across, I think, in the in the podcast, that Ted is this, you know, was a member of Congress, like runs AJC, but he just, he's so warm, and it is so obvious in everything that he says, that this is not like a job for him, but it is a passion and a life's mission. And the way that he spoke about just his love for the Jewish people, for spirituality, for what it means to stand up in the world, his hope and optimism. He speaks about relationships that you can insist on and make sure that you can have right now. It's very moving to find leaders who are running institutions and who themselves are able to embody a very powerful sense of conviction. We need more leaders like that. Manya Brachear Pashman:  So tell us about your newest project.  Mijal Bitton: Yeah, it's called Committed. That's the name of the Substack. I started it on Simchat Torah. I'm still tinkering with it. Like you know, how long it should be, the tone, this, that. I'm very lucky to have a lot of readers and students who eagerly give me feedback as to what works and what doesn't, which is lovely, because I love learning Torah with them. But really, as many conversations that I've had with people about anti semitism and advocacy and Zionism on campus, as many conversations that I've been having around like antisemitism and Israel and politics, I have been having the same number of conversations about Judaism and spirituality and the soul and what it means to be part of this magnificent tradition.  I have been taken aback that often in my my classes and lectures, it will end with people coming to me afterwards and wanting to speak about their Jewish journeys, what it means to raise Jewish children, what it means to learn Torah, if you didn't grow up learning Torah, and now you want to what it means to to know that we are souls with bodies, as opposed to bodies with souls, all of these things.  I have felt that it's really important to try to to have weekly touch points that we can have to ask big questions and to be able to address them using Jewish tradition. So I've in my Substack so far, I've explored, like I mentioned before, Jewish pride, what it means to have Jewish pride. I've explored what it means to have, using the stories of Abraham and Rebecca, what it means to, when the world is burning, to know that we have multiple modes of responses. One of them is to provide justice, put out the flame.  Another mode is to help those who have burn marks and to just show care to them and be with them in times of need. The one that I wrote that I think went the farthest. One was around sacrifice, the binding of Isaac, which I wrote about what it means to from America. Look at Israeli parents and know that they are raising children who are willing to sacrifice in a way that American children are just not being taught.  I use the story of Jacob and Esau, and I did a beautiful thought experiment. What would have happened if a Chabad emissary would have met the bad twin of Jacob? And there's all of this text that actually allow us to imagine that Esau could have become a leader of the Jewish people if he would have been shown the kind of love that Chabad emissaries give. So I think there's amazing ways to approach Jewish tradition and to use those as and use Jewish tradition as a way to ask the most critical questions about what it means to live as a Jew today.  Manya Brachear Pashman: I imagine you'll be lighting candles soon for Hanukkah. Any other special traditions? Mijal Bitton The one thing I would say that I love that we do in our Sephardic communities, we light a little bit differently. And this is a traditional way. There's some Sephardic Jews that have changed this a little bit, but traditionally we light one Hanukkiah (menorah) as a family. So in many Ashkenazic communities, each individual lights their own. Classically, in the Sephardic tradition, a family has one Hanukkiah, and we try to light it either by a window or, even better, outside. So my family, my parents, my siblings, they have a special Hanukkiah with glass panels, and we always light it outside the house, facing the streets in a very real way.  And I think that's an important symbol for us, what it means to insist on our lights in public spaces, what it means to fight for public spaces, and what it means, I would say . . . you know, Hanukkah has become such a commercialized holiday in America that, like lives alongside Christmas, and that feels good.  And it's become not just a watered down version of its original premise, but in many ways the opposite, because what the Maccabees did is they took on not just the Greek Empire in military terms. They took on the Greek Empire in cultural and spiritual terms, and they resisted assimilation with everything they had. So in a funny way, in America, to fit in, we've remade Hanukkah in terms that have been opposite in its original meaning.  And I think this last year asked us to reconsider what Hanukkah should look like, and what would it mean, you know, we shouldn't, I'm not saying we should be like the Maccabees exactly. You know, they're a complicated story as well. But what would it mean to make sure that we're not only lighting a light outside, but that we are expressing our Judaism in Jewish terms, even when it's a little bit uncomfortable for others.  Manya Brachear Pashman:  Mijal, thank you so much for joining us.  Mijal Bitton: Thank you for having me. Really great to be here.