CRE Radio & TV Podcast

With so many businesses shuttered and federal financial relief delayed, employees, tenants, landlords and lenders are trying to work things out and survive until business gets back to usual. But for some, federal relief may come too late and negotiations may not work out as well as we all hope. As part of your arsenal of negotiation and survival tactics it is important to be aware of your rights to seek bankruptcy relief either as a landlord or tenant. Let me be clear. We are not recommending or encouraging anyone to file for bankruptcy protection.But it is good to know what your Plan B might be if things don't go as planned. Atlas has shrugged and it is hard to know for certain what is going to happen and how well your plans will go. That's why my panelists and I are going to educate and inform you on your bankruptcy options. This is the audio only recording of a webinar originally presented on April 16, 2020. The video recording of the webinar which contains additional written material is available on YouTube. To watch the full video replay, click here. The following are some of the topics that we discuss: When and Why You Should Be Thinking About Bankruptcy, Canadian bankruptcy perspective if parties cannot negotiate a deal, Applying security deposit to past due rents and requesting tenant to replenish security deposit. Applying letters of credit during eviction moratoriums CARES Act & Covid-19 changes to the bankruptcy code & Canadian equivalents, Do companies come out of bankruptcy? TENANT PERSPECTIVES US Bankruptcy Chapters Canadian Bankruptcy Law Tenant retention of possession of premises in Chapter Difference between Chapter 11, subchapter 5 and a Chapter 13 Distinction between secured or unsecured creditor Landlord strategies to secure judgment for collection purposes Judgment liens and perfection Landlord issues in the event of a tenant bankruptcy Assumption of Leases Special retail considerations Canadian provisions Lease rejection and corresponding damages Automatic Stay and Relief from the Automatic Stay How do rent moratoriums affect tenant's obligations to pay administrative rent Bankruptcy abuse and In Rem relief for repeated or bad faith bankruptcies Tenant's perspective of a landlord's bankruptcy Retail bankruptcy and how it may differ from other bankruptcies.   My Panelists are: Sara Chenetz,Esq, a bankruptcy lawyer and partner in the US national law firm of Perkins Coie. for more information on Sara, click here. Richard Golubow, Esq. a bankruptcy lawyer and partner in the California law firm of Winthrop Golubow Hollander. For more information on Richard click here Catherine Francis, Esq., a Canadian bankruptcy lawyer and partner in the Canadian law firm of Minden Gross, LLP. for more information on Catherine, click here. My name is Howard F. Kline. I am a general business and real estate attorney with a primary focus on commercial landlord tenant matters, including lease negotiations, rent collections and commercial evictions. I also serve as an arbitrator and mediator focusing on commercial landlord tenant disputes.

As businesses begin the process of reopening they are faced with a myriad of legal and operational issues that they have not previously encountered. Taking a cavalier approach to protecting your employees and the public from contracting the Coronavirus is not only morally wrong, it can lead to significant civil or criminal liability. Were you aware that there have been over 400 Coronavirus Class Action lawsuits filed? Reopening incorrectly or failing to reasonably protect their employees and the public will certainly bring a firestorm of lawsuits on businesses. In this webinar, I breakdown and explain: The potential civil and criminal liability that businesses face, The three key elements to avoid liability What some businesses are doing wrong Should they follow CDC, OSHA or other governmental guidelines? YES, this information will scare you, but it is better to be prepared than hide in the shadows until the Sheriff comes knocking on your door. To Watch the video of the webinar, click here.

My research has confirmed that California Coronavirus eviction moratorium ordinances in the state of California differ by county and even by city within the same county. Some cities and counties have imposed eviction moratoriums only on residential property and others on both commercial and residential. Sometimes, even when the moratorium covers both commercial and residential property, the type of property is handled differently. In some places, the eviction moratorium imposes obligations on the tenant in order to receive the protection of the moratorium and in some places, the landlord is obligated to notify the tenant, in advance of the tenant's moratorium rights. It is confusing. Compounding the confusion are separate court closures and orders not to issue summons in unlawful detainer matters or for the Sheriff not to do lockouts. To top it all off, the orders and moratoriums are changing from week-to-week or even, day-to-day. During this webinar, I will do the best I can to give you up to date eviction moratorium information in many of the California counties and cities and give practical advice on how to protect yourself, whether as a landlord, tenant or property manager. The video of the webinar has additional material that I included after the webinar. To see the video, go to: https://youtu.be/cBiUz_Hu2s0 Also note that during the webinar I was asked a question that I did not entirely answer accurately.  The most correct answer to the question is that California Code of Civil Procedure Section 1951.4 requires reference to and suggests certain language of the code section to be included in the lease in order to sue for rents as the accrue. For more information, link to me on LinkedIn.

Time stamped summary of podcast [00:06:52] How will the pandemic affect the short term future of retail negotiations?  [00:13:09] New Covid language and increased due diligence, [00:14:14] Do you think that brick and mortar will continue to shrink? [00:16:42] Will National tenants be closing their weaker stores? [00:17:50] What will be the long term effects? [00:18:32] Is this a good time to push through existing lease negotiations? [00:19:57] Are lease negotiations going to be more complicated with everyone now adding lease language to mitigate a pandemic risk? [00:20:41] Are the relevant lease provisions clear and unambiguous? [00:21:54] Is this a good time to be a retail leasing broker? [00:22:33] What are some of the specific lease clauses that we'll be changing because of this? [00:26:05] Will Insurance companies provide pandemic coverage in the future? [00:26:52] Does Force Majeure apply in most leases? [00:28:45] Should brokers add forced major language to their LOIs or leave this to the attorneys to duke it out? [00:33:28] Are the Eminent Domain or Condemnation Clause applicable? [00:36:56] Co-tenancy provisions may be negotiated differently in the future. [00:38:08] Do landlords want to get rid of good tenants? [00:40:08] How does the panel see the effects on the crowded bar business model, given social distancing and potentially less seating capacity? [00:41:49]  Aren't some restaurant volumes up?  [00:46:53] Will grocery anchored shopping centers recover faster? [00:47:17] How long do you think it will be before commercial real estate gets back to where it was in January 202? [00:49:04] Will there be new categories of retailers as a result of this pandemic? [00:49:34] How will the Coronavirus effect investment sales overall? [00:55:52] How are tenants handling the Coronavirus? [00:57:00] How important is creativity for tenants? What are the tenants doing to help themselves? [01:01:37]  Landlords want as much information as possible in order to make a risk profile. Tenant's should anticipate what information landlords will want. [01:03:16] There are a lot of ways tenants can help themselves out. [01:06:40] How can landlords protect themselves from over aggressive lenders? [01:11:00] Specific Examples of Retail Landlord Reactions. [01:13:48] Examples of Tenant Reactions.  

This is the recording of our April 2, 2020 webinar in which my panelists and I take a deep dive into commercial lease clauses and legal theories  that may provide some tenant  rent relief or otherwise obligate the landlord to make certain accommodations for the tenant. The clauses and theories that we discussed are: Force Majeure Eminent Domain/Condemnation Quiet Use & Enjoyment Legal concepts, including: Impossibility of Performance Impracticability of Performance or Frustration of Purposes

In this ever changing world of the Coronavirus, one thing is certain, tenants are going to be seeking rent relief, whether they are legally entitled to it or not. Even if tenants are not legally entitled to rent relief, landlords may be willing to accommodate such requests seeking to minimize their own exposure and insure the maximum revenue from their property. In this webinar Howard Kline and our panelists will be discussing landlord and tenant strategies for negotiating tenant rent relief and with an eye towards an economic recovery from this terrible virus.

The following is an edited transcript of my interview with Adam Ifshin, Founder and CEO of DLC Management, a multi-billion dollar retail real estate developer and management company. My name is Howard Kline. I'm the founder and host of CRE Radio and TV since 2010. I've also been a commercial real estate attorney since 1976 and a commercial real estate agent in New York and Nevada, as well as being a broker in California. For today's podcast, I've dipped into the archives for my 2018 interview with Adam Ifshin at the ICSC 2018 RECON Convention. Honestly, after listening to this interview, I feel like hitting myself on the side of the head. This was such a good interview, I have to question my competency in waiting so long to publish it. This was really a personal interview between two men who already like and respect each other. We mix the personal with business, including how to incorporate family into business, creating a culture from the top down. For that, I want you to think of the book from Good to Great, what retail real estate will look like in 2038 and what the current trends are between now and 2038. The topics on this interview are as relevant now as they were in 2018. Howard F Kline [00:01:29] Let me also take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about Adam, because he is not only personable and smart, but he has the experience and credibility of a person that we should listen to. Adam is the founder and CEO of DLC Management, which he founded in 1991. DLC is a billion-dollar company that he founded, that operates retail real estate and is one of the most active acquirers of assets with value added potential. Adam is also a member of the Board of Trustees of the International Council of Shopping Centers and a member of the Executive Board of ICSC, among his many other positions, if you want to know more about Adam. You can go to his website at dlcmgmt.com. Adam Ifshin [00:04:06] When I started DLC, I was the youngest person at DLC. I was 24 1/2. There were only three of us. I was the only person under 50. And for the longest time, I was very often the youngest person until Daniel, my cousin came in 96. Daniel is now our president. At this convention, I actually sent everybody, who came out here, a two page note about what it was like to come here in 1992 when I was completely broke and spent the last of the money I had in my bank account on airfare. Howard F Kline [00:04:47] Let's talk a little bit about that, because people don't understand that everybody starts somewhere. I moved back to New York in 83'. Before I moved back I had been general counsel for Big Supermarkets in San Diego. After moving back, I was unemployed for six months and then I tried to become a broker. It takes a while in New York City to make money. It just doesn't happen overnight. I can remember times, when I lived in Astoria when I would take my change from my change draw to get enough money to take the subway to get to work. I worked in the Helmsley building in Manhattan. There was no doubt that it was a struggle. Adam Ifshin [00:05:33] I grew up in a brokerage family. My father went in the real estate business as a commercial real estate broker. You always knew exactly where you stood. You knew more about your father's bank account when you were eight years old than any dad who did anything else, because it was directly a ratio of what your mother could put on for food on the table. Adam Ifshin [00:06:18] My father was my partner in DLC from the time we founded the company together from scratch to when he passed away in 2016. I spent the first 10 years at DLC trying to make something from nothing and at the same time trying to put some little governor of risk on my father, which took a long time to have any modicum of success. I was much more successful in business than I was putting a governor on risk on him. Adam Ifshin [00:07:13] So many people think about that real estate ownership, redevelopment and development requires taking great risks. That's how you make the money. I'm a huge believer, actually, that a lot of our success has to do with our ability to mitigate risk, not take it. A huge component of what we do is consider the risk associated with the deal and if the probability of getting success really worth it? Adam Ifshin [00:07:44] We went back in the development business in 2011 doing single tenant net leased development. When we did, we put up a whole bunch of rules and guardrails that were self-imposed. We passed on a lot of deals because of those rules. But we said, hey, look, we are just not going to buy on entitled land no matter how cheap it is, no matter how badly the client says they want to be there. We passed on some deals that other people may have made a lot of money. But you know what? We made good money for the level of risk we were comfortable about taking. I think that's one of the myriad of things in this world that people don't really know and understand. I don't sleep much to begin with, but the only chance you have to sleep at night is to figure out where your own personal risk tolerance is. Howard F Kline [00:08:28] Sam Zell, I remember seeing him talking to us during the recession, some time. I can remember him saying, something to the affect that if you're going to invest, you invest enough to know and in such a way so that when things go to hell in a handbasket, you're still around. Adam Ifshin [00:08:49] The way I like to phrase it is, conviction does not necessarily equal, taking acceptable risk. You can have conviction about an investment and still do everything you can possibly do to mitigate the risk associated, that conviction or confidence naturally brings forth. You have to step back. Adam Ifshin [00:09:12] Now, at this point in time in this organization, it's as much about teaching how to do that as it is doing it yourself. We have a lot of young people in the company and I teach frequently. And one of the things I teach to our leasing people our asset management people, often is that we're an unsecured creditor to retailers. That means that it's great to think like a developer and act like a developer, but what you really need to do is to think like an owner and act like an owner and most of all, you need to think like a lender, you need to act like a lender. Just because someone's got some great new sexy concept doesn't mean that you need to do it. Adam Ifshin [00:09:53] We considered one last week in Buffalo, of all places. Phenomenal concept, one step up from fast casual. It was healthy, had dynamite products. But, the store cost a fortune to build. We questioned if we wanted to have them as a tenant. We considered if it is a corporate concept, is there any credit, who's backing the concept? Turns out it's a franchise concept? It's a $250, $300 hour of foot spend. We really had to think about it. This was different than doing a corporate deal for Chipotle, which may not be as sexy and maybe a little cheaper to do, but at least there's some corporate credit there to back you up. Howard F Kline [00:11:15] That's how I learned. Let's take a short break to tell you a little bit more about Howard Kline. I'd like you to consider this shameless promotion. You know, among other things, I've been criticized for not doing and ask. What is an ask? Well, what that means is that I don't tell people what I'm trying to get out of these interviews. Here is my ask. Howard F Kline [00:11:42] I'm a Nevada, real estate agent looking to put together commercial real estate deals, including institutional sales and leases. In addition, as of this publication in January of 2020, I've been doing a deep dive into opportunity zones and looking to educate and advise investors with capital gains, as well as developers and owners with assets located within opportunity zones. As an attorney, I have many years of experience advising businesses how to maximize their assets and revenue as well as mitigate risks. I've also negotiated probably upwards of a thousand commercial real estate leases for both landlords and tenants. So if you're interested, you can hire me as a broker or you can hire me as an attorney. For more information, you can contact me at hfk@hfkesq.com. Howard F Kline [00:13:12] What's it like having your daughter work for you? [00:13:19] It creates a whole another dynamic that you have to learn to manage. Adam Ifshin [00:17:19] There are similarities between running a business and raising children, particularly a business like this where we're so committed to developing young talent in the industry. My kids were all out here before the show. They went and did all the networking events that I do as an ICSC trustee and executive board member. And they pride themselves on having met people, knowing people, even if they're never going to be in the industry, can you ever spend enough time helping your kids be better people? You can't. One of the things that's kind of cool now about where we're at a DLC is we have a dozen to 15 people under the age of 25 in the organization who are not only hard working and already making an impact, but they come in and they want to learn. And one of things that does is that really creates a great culture and it really motivates the more senior people. It also activates the senior people's brains a little bit. Hey, you know, I'm pretty good at this. I have a story to tell. I have wisdom to impart. And it's really working. It's making everybody feel good and it's making everybody do good things. Howard F Kline [00:18:43] That's not all by luck. You realize that, that all happens because of the leadership. Howard F Kline [00:18:57] But I've been around long enough to know that when it starts at the top and you have a good team working, it's hard to keep it that way. Howard F Kline [00:19:07] But you attract people who think the way you want them to think. The tough part, in my opinion, is keeping them and keeping them motivated. Adam Ifshin [00:19:19] So it's certainly not just me, right? There's a group of us that run this company. Am I the founder and CEO?  Make no mistake about it, the top echelon of the organization, the leaders of the team, are incredibly good at what they do. They share, I think, the motivation and the passion I have for teaching. Howard F Kline [00:19:50] Did you bring them in? Adam Ifshin [00:19:50] Many of them certainly I recruited personally. But many of them have subsequently recruited other leaders in the organization. This is about a team. This is an organization. It's about a team. It's not just about me. Howard F Kline [00:20:13] That's what you convey to everybody. It's not just about Adam. Adam Ifshin [00:20:21] Right. Howard F Kline [00:20:21] So they come in. They like working in the organization. They understand that. So when they recruit people, they understand that it's not about them. And they convey that to the people who work for them. I've been general counsel for companies of 2,000 -  3,000 employees. Howard F Kline [00:20:40] I think of it, you know, like an electric line. We had great organizers at the top. And then as you expand throughout the country, well, then you have to have the second tier and then you have the third tier. That dynamic personality, that energy starts dissipating, if it's not fostered correctly and it starts at the top. And what you have to do is you've got to start here and know how to recruit, know how to foster confidence and the ability to do your job correctly and then teach those people how to do it, who then teach other people. Then all of a sudden you find, while you may have an aberration down the line, but you find that there's a purpose throughout the organization. Adam Ifshin [00:21:38] Well, sure. There's a culture that emerges and you can foster for a culture, you can preach for a culture. You can live by those rules. And if you don't, generally won't work. But at the end of the day, it's interesting that culture is ultimately determined by the team. You can't impose it on anybody. Adam Ifshin [00:22:04] One of things we did in the last year that I'm most proud, the most important thing we did last year, the biggest success we had last year was, we went out for the first time ever and anonymously did the Great Place to Work survey. This is the survey that is the underpinning of the backbone of the Fortune 100 best places to work in all of those types of ratings and rankings. We didn't do it to try and be on them and we never even thought that we would get certified as a great place to work. So roughly one and a half to two percent of the 30,000 companies a year that take the survey get certified as a great place to work based on the anonymous responses of the people on those teams at those companies. Adam Ifshin [00:22:54] We did it because we wanted the impact and the data and the feedback so that we could figure out how to get better right at bringing people into the organization and to your point, getting them to stay, recruitment and retention. Lo and behold, when the survey results came back, we qualified and we got certified as a great place to work. That to me was the biggest accomplishment of the last twelve months, by far. The assets will come and go, we will buy more assets, we will sell some assets, we'll cull the herd, whatever you want to call it, we will harvest profits, but the thing that makes us go, the engine that makes us go is the strength of the culture and the talent and the skill set of that human capital team. Howard F Kline [00:23:36] Let's look at your crystal ball. You go to sleep tonight and you wake up 20 years from now. What's retail real estate going to look like? Adam Ifshin [00:23:51] Retail real estate is going to be here. It's not going away. Will it look the way it looks today? Do I know exactly what to look like? And if I did, I wouldn't have to do this. I might have to be out, you know, displacing Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos. I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. Clearly, it's trending to more about the person as a lifecycle than it is a consumer of goods. Howard F Kline [00:24:26] Explain that to me. Adam Ifshin [00:24:27] For years, retailers looked at consumers, people as consumers, people who were going to come into their stores, buy things they wanted or needed and consume them and come back for more. Increasingly, people are going to retail destinations. They don't have to go anymore for those things. If you're a recluse, you can figure out how to get your food. You can figure out how to get new clothes. You can figure out how to get toilet paper and toothpaste. But increasingly, it's about people's lives. It's about their social interactions. It's about their experiences. I had this conversation with Bill Horner at LA Fitness that we’ve built 7 stores for. Adam Ifshin [00:25:18] When we started doing them, every retailer said, I don't want a gym. They call them a gym. I don't want a gym next to me. I was a meeting today with my forward-thinking friends at Burlington. We love gyms. We'd love a gym next to us. In the last 15 years, this is really amazing turnaround. It's about experience. It's about lifestyle. People are going to gyms for a myriad of reasons. Want to live longer. They want the quality of life where they're alive to be better. They want to be more mobile, they want to be more flexible, they want to look better. But they're also going there for social interaction. And people are waking up to the fact that a retail venue does not only have to be about the T-shirt and the skirt and the toothbrush and the toothpaste and the toilet paper. It can be about eating, it can be about being with friends, it can be about working out. It can be about going to see your doctor. Adam Ifshin [00:26:16] We've done four now and we're working on more, not urgent care or dental clinic, I'm talking about a full blown mini hospital in a shopping center. The one of the ones we did, we put a 30,000 square foot facility with ambulatory surgery, radiology, orthopedics, OBGYN, pediatrics and EMT next to the number one home goods in the state of Connecticut. Adam Ifshin [00:26:59] You know, it's interesting that there's there's plenty of demand for those boxes. Getting the numbers to work in a market, in an environment where retailers are incredibly cost conscious about rent and occupancy cost and where construction costs have really leapt up, is a challenge. But, when I look at who's interested in coming in and taking over vacant space lot of stuff related to health and wellness, lots related to fitness, a lot related to home. Adam Ifshin [00:27:37] It's interesting for all of the renting, home product is hot. I mean, we're doing a ton of deals with people like home goods, At Home, Kirkland's, and furniture. We just did two more deals with Ashley. We did a deal with Lazy Boy last year. Home is hot and it was hot last year. Howard F Kline [00:28:06] You should be in Vegas. I haven't seen this kind of homebuilding in many, many years. Adam Ifshin [00:28:11] I will tell you that when you talk to locals here, they're worried there isn't enough. Howard F Kline [00:28:20] There are so many people like my wife and I who moved from Southern California to Vegas and we're renting right now. My wife is telling me that as soon as possible, let's find a place to buy even if we rent it out, because if we wait two years, it's going to be too expensive. This is the time to buy. And they are building like crazy, but they're building like crazy because everybody's moving here. That's one of the things that I'm going to be doing is I'm getting my broker's license and I am going to use this platform to bring people to Las Vegas for other than the strip. Other than gaming, you know, the infrastructure that will help Las Vegas when the next downturn occurs, because it will. Adam Ifshin [00:29:06] Millions of people live here who have nothing to do with the strip already. Howard F Kline [00:29:10] Well, that's true. That's very true. Howard F Kline [00:29:12] But the strip feeds the engine. Yeah. It's the engine right now. And what they need to do is develop more of the other infrastructure so that when you hit a recession because Vegas got hit, awful bad, it got hit awful bad during the recession. But if you have all of these are the businesses that could take care of everybody. So if gaming drops a bit, it's not going to hurt as bad. Adam Ifshin [00:29:40] So you talk about homebuilding here. We bought this this big million square foot asset now in Texas last year for value-add play. There has been a lot of leasing demand. We are getting a Toys R US Babies box back. Tons of demand. We have over 150 thousand feet of LOIs. We don't even have the box back yet. It's around the corner from the Allen Eagles football stadium of Friday Nights Lights fame. Adam Ifshin [00:30:10] The home building and the upscale multi-family construction that is going on in that part of the world. Plano. Frisco. Allen, McKinney, Texas. Very powerful. What's amazing is how much of it is pre-sold. You know, people are building 3,000, 4,000 units a year, single family and there's no increase in supply. So essentially pre-sold. Howard F Kline [00:30:36] People are moving out of California. They're moving out of New York. They're moving out of the Democratic states because it's so expensive to live. Adam Ifshin [00:30:48] Oh, I think I think, by the way, that it's only a matter of time before Texas is a blue state, not a red state. Howard F Kline [00:30:58] The demographics are changing all over the place because people can move around. Adam Ifshin [00:31:04] Well, they have a motivation to move, right? You know, eight miles from this center that we bought in in Allen, in the last year, Toyota has opened up their North American headquarters there to relocate from Fremont, California. They move twelve and a half thousand people with an average salary of over one hundred thousand dollars. Liberty Mutual. That's moving the same kind of number of people, 10,000 - 12,000 people. They're moving next door to Toyota. And State Farm's going next to them. NTT DoCoMo is North American headquarters going next to them. Adam Ifshin [00:31:43] The people who are moving are people who were largely from California, little bit in New York, Illinois, people are moving because the math doesn't work in those other places anymore. That's a big challenge in those places. Howard F Kline [00:32:01] What keeps you awake at night? Adam Ifshin [00:32:14] I don't understand why lenders continue to lend into private equity backed, LBO backed, retailers who are starved for capital because of the leverage levels putting them in the position that they can't improve their stores. Look, there's no question that there is a significant level of disruption in our world because of Amazon and a million other technology related developments. But when I look at most of the distress that we've encountered from retailer bankruptcies, they're largely not driven by e-commerce. They are largely driven by you have a relatively commoditization chain, nothing really to differentiate it, perhaps the management is part of that, that company gets LBO'd. Adam Ifshin [00:33:18] And now every last bit of free cash flow, instead of going into reinventing your supply chain, leaning out your inventories, refreshing the stores, creating a compelling reason for customers to come in and shop, the money is all going to pay debt. And then a year later, they're doing another debt piece that's for the purpose of growing the business, it's to take a special dividend so they can take out more equity. I don't understand why the lenders are still so compliant, so complicit, so willing to extend leverage to entities in the face of what the track record is. Adam Ifshin [00:33:57] What keeps me up at night is you go out, you make a deal with a great retailer. They've got a nice balance sheet and six months later they get LBO'd and all of a sudden you're thinking, why did I buy into here? Like I said before, we view ourselves as an unsecured creditor at a bankruptcy table, but we view ourselves as an unsecured lender when we put out a large TI package to a tenant. We have absolutely zero control over what their balance sheet could look fine on Tuesday and they can get a buyout offer on Friday. Howard F Kline [00:34:27] OK, let me just stop you there. Now, you remember you're talking to a lawyer who's been a tenant, who's also been a landlord and the whole nine yards. I could go on and on why that doesn't have to be what you're talking about. Adam Ifshin [00:34:46] But it is. Howard F Kline [00:34:47] It is. Howard F Kline [00:34:49] I can remember in 1986 negotiating a deal. It took me six months to negotiate 40,000 square feet in Houston with Citibank. We had a letter of credit, actually there were multiple declining letters of credit. They made it very difficult and we were the biggest deal in Houston that year. I can also tell you that when it comes to getting a security interest and I know every landlord tells you that they'll never give it to you, but there's no reason why you can't take a security interest in a lease. You can do that. But I've never seen a landlord say, oh, yeah, let's do it. Great idea, Howard, because I always hear, well, they have to finance their tenant improvements. Well, if you're doing the tenant improvements, you'd better secure it. And there's no reason why you can't secure file a security interests in all of their assets. I think that that should be part of the deal. Adam Ifshin [00:35:49] Right. But if they're leveraged in front of you, secured in front of you, what are you going to do? Howard F Kline [00:35:55] I'm telling you that you worry about whether or not you're first or second in line when they're in bankruptcy, you're at least a secured creditor. Adam Ifshin [00:36:07] Fair point. Howard F Kline [00:36:07] I get good judgments. I represent some large companies and I get judgments. And then I don't execute on that judgment for a minimum of 90 days after I file my UCC liens so that I don't force them into bankruptcy, whether they have assets or not. I don't care. File that UCC lien. I wait 90 days and then I perfect my security interest so that if they do file bankruptcy, of course I'm looking to see how much they lie on there, you know, on their schedules. Howard F Kline [00:36:44] But if they file bankruptcy, I'm in a secured position. I don't even care that point in time, whether or not I'm first in line there, second, if I don't secure it, then I'm not even in line. So at least let me get in line. What's the best time to get in line? Adam Ifshin [00:37:01] In the beginning. Howard F Kline [00:37:02] Right now? Certainly, don't wait till tomorrow. Adam Ifshin [00:37:05] You always have a great closer. Howard F Kline [00:37:10] Data. Talk to me about data. Over the last two days I've spoken to people about how big data is right now. Then some people are going, but there's a scary part to data. What are your thoughts on data, where it is now and where is it going? Adam Ifshin [00:37:30] So data is a big deal. Our team at DLC spent the last nine months working on putting a product in place that enables us to more easily, more seamlessly extract data from our various databases, particularly our primary, commercial management, property management, accounting software package in a manner in which you don't have to be an accountant to get it out and then manipulate it. You don't have to be some Excel wizard to get it out. We want easier to access the data. It makes it easier to use, analyze the data and then use those analytics to your advantage to do everything from make better deals speed the lease process, come to better resolution in disputes. We're a big believer in harnessing and but it's about transparency and access. Adam Ifshin [00:38:25] I happen to be and we're not using the product yet, but I happen to be an investor outside of DLC as a private person in a venture startup that's got a really dynamic CEO. This is his fifth startup, all of which have been highly successful. It's an entity called “data.world”. This is a major, very big concept idea about unlocking access to data legally, in old legacy systems where they're buried, where it's hard to get it out. Our launch customers are people like Associated Press and Gannett and the Census Bureau. Adam Ifshin [00:39:14] There are large scale projects out there now designed to address the opaqueness and the difficulty in accessing data for the purposes of good and being in a way in which we can do things from reframe and rethink what efficiency means because and what productivity means. If you look at the single biggest drag on growth in America, it's that the productivity gains that we saw in the 90's from the application of the personal computer, in the laptop computer and the software systems that grew up on those platforms has peaked and it's plateaued and it's led to very mediocre productivity growth over the last decade, almost 15 years now. Adam Ifshin [00:40:02] We have to get back to productivity increases in this country if we want to see real GDP growth at a rate that's materially higher than inflation so that we can pay the bill for some of the stuff that's gone on in this country. I believe that harnessing data more efficiently so that things can be built more efficiently and government can manage and fix its infrastructure more or less expensively and faster all comes back to unleashing and harnessing the benefits of data. Health care is another place. Now, look, are there privacy concerns, there are privacy concerns? You know, we have a president who tweets from an unsafe phone. Adam Ifshin [00:40:51] The one thing I'll close with, I think that within reason those privacy concerns can be addressed and certainly in a private company setting with appropriate confidentiality and security. I'm not worried about it, but I see a great future for using data, DLC and beyond.  

Howard F. Kline [00:45:54] And you don't need to go into a lot of detail because that is your secret sauce. But you had indicated to me that you take a C building and turn it into maybe a B building vs. B minus versus what other people are talking about, going in to opportunity zones and trying to turn a C building into an A building. What is it that you generally do to and the significance of it in turning a C building into a B minus and then we'll go talk about the over-investment concept that some people are getting into. Daryl Carter [00:46:46] Well, the one of our challenges with affordability is my is frankly the apartment industry. And part of it is that we look at this kind of what I call amenities arms race. Well, let's do marble countertops. Let's do this. Let's do that. When we do a renovation, we can do an incredible job for under $20,000 a unit, sometimes 15, sometimes even $12,000 a unit. Now, we will have in particular a couple of our investors that will look up at the ceiling and they'll say, my God can you get rid of the old popcorn ceiling? One of the fundamentals of our renovations is we look at everything we do in the context of how much rent will our resident have to pay to remove the popcorn ceiling. That's going to be 40 dollars in rent. And what I always tell our investors, look, everybody today can afford a three-hundred-dollar big screen TV. They're looking at their TV. They're not looking at the ceiling. Let it go. People would rather pay 40 dollars less. And that's the same thing. You know, we're very often we rather than remove and put new cabinets, we resurface them and put new hardware on it, new cabinets, probably ten dollars and read our fix is probably two dollars in rent. Daryl Carter [00:48:12] You go from you know, you go across the renovation spectrum, we can make it very, very nice. New appliances, washers and dryers. You know, a nice wood-like synthetic floor. I mean, we can do things that make it nice, make it safe, all those things that have them be enhancements. But we're not going to put the marble countertops. We're going to put LED lighting to lower the electric bill for our residents. We're going to put in more energy efficient plumbing and things like that. Part of what we're doing as an industry where and the kind of renovations I'm talking about, we don't have to push the rents more than 10 or 15 percent if that. Now, some of the renovations where people are put spending 40 and 50 thousand a unit, you know, they're trying to double the rents. And that's where I think we run into this challenge. Daryl Carter [00:49:11] The other thing is that by keeping the rents lower, there's a wider band of residents. And so, again, we try to optimize occupancy and demand. Of our 70 communities, probably half of them have waiting lists because they're nice, but they're also affordable. And we just don't have enough of those in the industry. Part of the affordability challenge is developers that try to take C apartments and make them A apartments. Daryl Carter [00:49:47] There was an industry forum where it was asked, how much will people pay for a yoga studio and their apartment or a cappuccino maker. I challenged this panel and said the question is not how much will people pay, but how much less would they rather pay if you take it all away? People can find their coffee, their Dunkin Donuts at Starbucks everywhere. And if they want to do yoga, they will find that. As apartment owners, we have to get back to basics and provide quality housing without the frill. Howard F. Kline [00:50:25] You had indicated that you've got, I think, 15 current properties or properties that you had acquired prior to January 1st, January 1st, 2018 that are going to be part of your new opportunity zone fund, correct? Daryl Carter [00:50:43] Well, we have we have five that we have identified that makes sense to do that. We're still evaluating on the other 10. Now, some are fully-improved and we can't, you know, add more. We can't put 100 percent in. You know, there are various reasons why others may not work, but we had five that definitely do work and probably another three that we're still evaluating. Howard F. Kline [00:51:11] There's an issue we have. If someone who already owned property, you are an asset within an opportunity zone prior to the effective date of January 1st, 2018. Then the question is how does that owner participate in the benefits of the opportunity zone program? So why didn't you tell us a little bit of how you're dealing with that with regard to your existing properties? Daryl Carter [00:51:43] Well, one are our properties are owned in partnerships with institutional investors and we have an ownership slice of that. And the threshold of that law is 20 percent. If we own more than 25 percent, then we couldn't participate. But if we own less than that, we can be on essentially both sides of the transaction. Howard F. Kline [00:52:24] So that means that if someone already owns property or if they own property in an opportunity zone, say, for 10 years and they owned 100 percent, they can still participate in the project if they divest themselves of anything more than 20 percent. Daryl Carter [00:52:46] I am not a CPA and lots of people that know the rules about better, but I know ours work because we own less than 20 right of the assets we're contributing and will own less than 20 in the new fund that we're creating. Daryl Carter [00:53:28] Our existing investor base is about 50 percent tax exempt and 50 percent taxable. There are pension funds like New York City retirement as an investor, New York Common Fund. And then we have some foundations, Smithsonian, Ford Foundation. So those would not be likely investors and opportunity zones because the maximum benefits they can't use. We believe that opportunity zone investors will look different than many of our existing investors. Now we have some that may be able to participate, but by and large, our existing investor base are both tax exempt and taxable investors, whereas the opportunity zone investors will be those that have sole companies or companies that have capital gains that redeploy. Howard F. Kline [00:54:49] Well, I think part of the point that you had previously explained to me is that on some of the properties you can deliver the promised returns in which case you can exit that property and then the Opportunity Zone Fund can get involved and there'll be different investors in the Opportunity Zone project. So there are going to be numerous and different ways that people will be able to exit existing properties. When I say existing properties or assets acquired prior to the effective date and then take advantage of the opportunity zone projects. Daryl Carter [00:55:32] Well, and the other thing I think it's important to remember that, while a lot of the focus has been on real estate. There are certainly opportunities zone investment can be made and operating businesses and the like. And in fact, as we look at creating our opportunity zone vehicle, we may actually house it in an Opportunity Zone. So that's one of the other things that we're currently evaluating right now. Howard F. Kline [00:56:00] Absolutely. That's one of the things that I think that investing in businesses located and satisfying the requirements of a business in an opportunity zone that's the hidden pot of gold, I think ultimately, I think that's going to be the greatest advantage of this program is moving businesses into the opportunities zones. Howard F. Kline [00:56:30] I had a discussion yesterday and suggested that they could suggest to an owner of a office building that exists and an opportunity zone is saying, listen, there may be advantages of businesses moving into office space in this building that do not exist outside of the opportunity zone. It seems to me that that's a great way to fill up your existing space and building. I don't hear that a lot from people, but I know that if I was representing an owner of a building and an opportunity zone, if it would be an office building, a retail building, an industrial building, flex space, whatever, and I was looking to fill up that space I've got to tell people how to do it and how they can make this pay off for the future tenant and how the future tenant would even raise money to help their business. Daryl Carter [00:57:44] Absolutely. Yeah. It's a key part of it. And again, we tend, because we're in a real estate world, to be focused on it. But there's a whole world of other companies that should look at it, particularly, you know, tech companies and things, you know, because all of a sudden not having to pay taxes on that business for a period of time is a very important thing. Howard F. Kline [00:58:09] The city of Stockton has partnered with a company in the city of San Francisco where that where they are going to be putting in some infrastructure into the opportunity zone in the city of Stockton. And that's a way to finance the infrastructure project and make it make sense for them. And I'm going. Yeah, people are thinking, I love to see it. Daryl Carter [00:58:43] And that's a great thought. Certainly, Stockton has had many challenges. And I think they are now trying to be creative to bring commerce there. Sacramento is a place where we've made a lot of investments and there is an emerging market there of really people exiting the San Francisco Bay area and moving to places like Sacramento and specifically and also looking at Stockton in Modesto, because it's just simply too expensive to operate in the Bay Area. Daryl Carter [00:59:26] I think the opportunity zone could be transformative. My biggest concern is that there are very large companies who are jumping into this. I haven't seen those companies in places that we've historically invested. Many of those companies don't reflect diversity that is reflected in our employee base which looks like our resident base. We're highly diverse. I think it's important that that diversity is one of the reasons why we're successful in the communities that we invest in. That's part of our holistic approach. I think that if people come into some of the places we're investing in and take a different approach, what concerns me is if they aren't successful, people will say, we shouldn't have invested in that area. And that was probably my biggest concern. But I do think the opportunity zones reflect a great idea that I think we as Americans should be very excited about, because I think we do have an opportunity to transform places like Detroit and Stockton and others in a positive way. And so I tend to be an optimist and I'm very bullish on it. But that's the one concern that I have that you see some very, very large companies who I never come across in North Long Beach or West Oakland or other places that we invest them. Howard F. Kline [01:01:22] I think it's going to be a bit like playing golf. You really don't worry so much about the other guy as you need to worry about what you're doing yourself. Daryl Carter [01:01:32] Absolutely and that's what we do. Believe me, if we were watching other people, we wouldn't do what we are doing now because people thought we would still think that we're a little crazy and what we do. I think that's a good perspective. But I do think that having the focus on some of these areas is a good thing. [01:01:50] Absolutely. How do people get a hold of you? [01:01:53] They can. We're based in Irvine, California. Our website is www.avanath. And Avanath is named after my children, Eva and Nathan. Eva likes to say my whole name is in the company name and Nathan always likes to say, well, I have more letters.  

I had the pleasure of sitting down with Bill Arent, to discuss what the city of Las Vegas was doing with regard to opportunity zones within the city. Bill is the Director of the city of Las Vegas Department of Economic and Urban Development. In this podcast, Bill and I discuss how the city went from, pre opportunity zone redevelopment plans and incorporated the new tax incentives offered by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 into their new plans to revitalize under capitalized portions of the city.  We also discussed some of the projects that are in the works and other issues relating to opportunity zones. A partially edited version of the podcast transcript is provided below. IN THE BEGINNING Howard F Kline [00:01:16] Let's start in the beginning with regard to the city of Las Vegas and opportunity zones. Bill Arent [00:01:22] Well, we saw it as a great opportunity again, no pun intended, but we have a lot of the older parts of the city and the Las Vegas Valley. When you think of Las Vegas, you don't think of old. But we have some of the oldest parts of the valley where we have infrastructure that was built in the 40s and 50s. We've dug up wooden sewer mains and things like that. We're trying to revitalize and redevelop downtown Las Vegas. Bill Arent [00:01:49] We have about a 4000-acre area that is our city's redevelopment area. And so, when Opportunity Zones came along, we thought it was a great idea to be able to kind of overlay some of the things we were already doing with these new incentives. We worked really closely with the state and the governor's office and we were successful. We actually nominated 26 areas, 26 census tracts in the city. Twenty-two were selected, so we have over a third of the state’s opportunity zones right here in our city, most of them in the core downtown. Howard F Kline [00:02:23] Why did you choose the core area? [00:02:31] Well, it's really the areas that were struggling over the years for new investment but are also starting to see an upturn in new investments. We looked at it as part science, part art where we pick the areas that have been disadvantaged or a sense of disinvestment that are also up and coming neighborhoods. Most of those are in the core downtown. We picked some of the areas just west of downtown and some areas just east of downtown. We have some great areas where we're starting to see some new apartment projects and some new hotel projects. Most of the interest we've seen since we announced our zones have been really in two major segments, apartments, multifamily and hotel. We’ve talked to other investors who are trying to do other investment, but what we've seen in the city of Las Vegas is a lot of interest in those two sectors, particularly apartments and multifamily. MULTI-FAMILY IS THE DRIVING DEVELOPMENT Howard F Kline [00:03:30] Let's talk a little bit about apartments and multi-family. Do you have any idea why there's been such a focus on multi-family in these areas? If that's high on the city's list of development and why? Bill Arent [00:03:47] I think a couple reasons. Nationwide multi-family is a great investment. There's a lack of supply for quality rental housing in a lot of markets. The other thing I think you're seeing in the trend is a lot of people are looking to urban living and urban lifestyles where you have what I call the both ends of the bell curve. You have millennials or younger members of our workforce where they're not ready to own a home and they want that urban living. And then you have people which are downsizing where their kids are out of the home, or maybe it's a couple without kids and they wanted to have an urban lifestyle. Las Vegas has not traditionally had that. We're starting to see more and more of that. We’ve had some projects built, going into the recession and then the recession really kind of cut the legs out from under us. This is really rebirth. A lot of interest in downtown. We see a lot of large institutional investors interested in multi-family. And the way we think of opportunity zones is it doesn't make a bad investment good. It makes a good investment great. Across the board, we've talking to over half dozen multifamily housing developers from across the country. Locally, regionally and nationally about trying to find a project site center downtown. WORKFORCE & AFFORDABLE HOUSING Howard F Kline [00:05:11] Where does workforce or affordable housing come into play in these opportunity zones and do you see a predominance of workforce and affordable housing. Are you seeing more class A multi-family? Bill Arent [00:05:27] I think initially we're seeing more class A. In answer to your question about the city's goals, we do have kind of mixed goals. Primarily, we have two goals. One is more class A. We have some of the oldest housing stock around. We also have a lot of class C. Therefore, getting more class A apartments in downtown is a priority of the city. We have over 600 units in active construction right now in Symphony Park from two different partners, Aspen Heights at Austin, Texas and Southern Lands out of Nashville. Both of those projects, interestingly, are taking advantage of opportunity zones. We have a third project on the drawing board in Symphony Park. Combined that's over a thousand units for Symphony Park. We want to see workforce housing and mixed income housing, too. It’s our premise that if we get more luxury apartments in the core of our downtown, we’ll also see more mixed income development interest in the transitional neighborhoods which aren't established or not in the core of downtown. We’re hoping to see more mixed income projects where we have affordable rents for a portion of the units. The other thing we're starting to see and I'm actually headed to Chicago this week to visit and tour a developer there that's building highly amenitized micro-units where we're starting to see a synthetic affordability where the gross rent may be affordable where the developers can offer a higher quality project and just have smaller units. Instead of offering a traditional 800 to 1000 square foot apartment that you might see in the suburbs, it may be a 400 or 500 square foot unit that are very highly amenitized with restaurants, with shopping and on demand services. A hotel in concept, if you will. We're beginning to see that across the country and maybe Las Vegas is getting to that later than other more mature markets, like a Portland or Seattle. Howard F Kline [00:07:53] Shared amenities. Bill Arent [00:07:55] Shared amenities. Howard F Kline [00:07:57] I recently interviewed Darryl Carter, the CEO of Avanath about low-income and workforce housing in opportunity zones. Avanath has been doing workforce and low-income housing for 20 years and currently owns and manages over 2 billion dollars, worth of inventory. They have 15 projects that are currently in opportunity zones. I remember asking him a question, about nine years ago, about these micro-units. At the time, I thought of, what are now called micro-units, simply as affordable housing. I wasn’t aware that affordable housing had a different meaning.  He made it clear to me that micro-units were not the type of affordable housing that he was involved in. I picture micro-units as a more grown-up version of dormitories, which is not the term that people want to use, but you can have a small room with a small kitchen and a bathroom, a shower, and then all of these other amenities can be shared. And that makes a lot of sense, particularly in a city like New York, where you're lucky if your kitchen is not in your bathroom. Bill Arent [00:09:17] Right. Howard F Kline [00:09:18] I you have 200 square feet, you're doing well. I think that's a good idea. The other thing that Darryl had recently mentioned to me in our interview was the idea of mixed income. They have found that in workforce housing, mixed income, not necessarily a class A with all of the amenities, but a nice place to live with mixed income works very well. It tends to raise the living standard of those who have lower incomes and doesn't seem to depress those with middle incomes. Do you have any thoughts on that? You're the urban planner. Bill Arent [00:10:02] I think that's exactly right. From our vantage point, mixed income mixed-income works in the right communities. Mixed-income becomes real viable from a financial perspective, particularly if you're seeing strong rents on the market projects. We're starting to see rents in downtown at a two dollar per square foot or higher rate whereas the valley-wide market rent just the number 18 months, 24 months ago was probably closer to a dollar a foot, so we're seeing really strong pricing from projects like Fremont 9, which is already building up and running. We're starting to see that demand for a better product and people were willing to pay for it to have that urban lifestyle. That's when the mixed income starts to work because they can get enough profit out of the true market rate units to have the subsidized units be able to have a subsidy from the developer and maybe a little bit help from the city. Those projects start to work. You see a lot of mixed income in more mature housing markets. I think we're going to start to see that over the next couple of years. WHAT ABOUT RETAIL AND OFFICE? Howard F Kline [00:11:21] Where does retail and some industrial, I would imagine. Where do they come into play or office? Bill Arent [00:11:33] Well, for opportunity zones. I think it's going to come later. I think if you look at it again, it makes a good investment grade. Where we are strong right now in the valley even just looking beyond the city of Las Vegas. Multi-family and industrial, actually, industrial arguably is much stronger than multi-family right now. I think we'll see some investment in those areas. WHO IS SHOWING THE MOST INTEREST? The other thing that we're seeing, particularly in the opportunity zone front, are the large institutional investors having interest. We haven't seen a lot of the smaller players deploying large amounts of capital in the valley. There's another apartment project by Meadows Mall that's being developed by Silverstein Properties out in New York City. They're looking at opportunity zones. There's a project in the medical district called Revive, which is a combination, residential, retail potential, even some hotel units. They're looking at opportunity zones. It's really kind of the market and the institutional capital players that are driving what we're seeing as far as large flow of opportunity zones in the Las Vegas. To give you a sense of the scale of these projects, the two in Symphony Park, one was seventy-three million dollars, the total capital stack. The other was north of 80 million. These are pretty large projects. Institutional capital would be needed to make it work to begin with. Opportunity zone capital availability is helping driving an increase in the amount of equity available for these project sponsors to get them up off the ground and up and running. WHAT DOES THE CITY WANT TO SEE IN OPPORTUNITY ZONES? Howard F Kline [00:13:19] What's your perfect vision for opportunity zones in the city of Las Vegas? Bill Arent [00:13:25] I think we have a huge opportunity for moving more and more people to live in Las Vegas and in our downtown area. And I'd like to see over the next five years, three thousand new housing units being built in downtown. We’ve gotten off to a great start, but I think there's more work to do. Having the availability, the capital to develop more product is really important. One of the things that the city is doing is we've developed an online portal clv.oppzoneportal.com. The portal site includes, among other things, a plot analysis. We want to connect landowners, project sponsors and the funds and have, basically, a clearinghouse helping anyone interested in opportunity zones to connect the dots, including figuring out how to find the capital and that perfect site. At the end of day, real estate is local. A lot of the funds we're seeing are national in scope. But the real estate, is local. So how do they penetrate the local market, find the perfect location? That portal is available as a free charge to our clients. We already had those two sites that closed on the opportunity zone funding. They're on our portal trying to attract more people to the portal to basically funnel a lot of that traffic in our city. Howard F Kline [00:15:11] Zoning. How does zoning come into play in terms of opportunity zones? ZONING Bill Arent [00:15:18] Zoning is important. One of the things that the city can do is try to make sure for investors and product sponsors that we don't hold projects up. Having land use and zoning already in place, getting through our regulatory process with permitting and design review, we're trying to make sure we prioritize those projects so they can get in and out of our system quickly. FORM-BASED ZONING One of the things the city is doing is moving to a form-based code to help with predictability so that if you're designing within that box, if you will, of what is permitted in a particular zone, more and more. We're trying to get more administrative reviews where you don't have to go before the regulatory bodies as often. We're launching form-based zoning, initially in the medical district as a pilot to make sure our projects can get in and out of our system. It appears to be a real benefit for our partners. We realize time is money, always, particularly with the opportunity zones having that threshold to complete your substantial renovation within a specific time frame of 30 months. That’s another great thing about Las Vegas, is that the statutory time frame is doable, even without any help from the city, whereas you go to neighboring states like California and just to get zoning. You're doing well to get it done in 30 months. Howard F Kline [00:16:45] Speaking to a former Californian, 40 some odd years, why don't you take a moment and explain what form-based zoning is and how it differs from the more traditional use-based zoning? Bill Arent [00:16:58] Yes, the focus is more on the form, rather than the use. You plan a building of a certain density, not use. One of the things we recently did is for our wood frame construction, you can go now to 75-feet. It was fifty-five feet. With the form-base, you designed the forms, so whether you're building an office building or an apartment building,  you can go seven stories, 75 feet, it allows you get a 75 feet. You build an office building up to 75 feet, you build an apartment building you build it to 75 feet. Howard F Kline [00:17:44] That's big. Bill Arent [00:17:45] The big thing that we're hearing from our partners is predictability. So they don't want to have to start the process, wondering what's going to happen at the end of the funnel when I get out of the process and I get to be able to build it 50, 60, 70 units to the acre amount, going to be able to build it 20, 30 units to the acre, because then there'll be a tipping point where the project doesn't pass on. It kills the project. THE ISSUE OF GENTRIFICATION Howard F Kline [00:18:17] Let's talk a little bit about gentrification. That's not the softball. That's hardball. Bill Arent [00:18:26] Sure. Howard F Kline [00:18:26] What are your thoughts on gentrification? And is the city making any efforts to minimize the effects of gentrification? You’re talking about going to class A multi-family, which is likely going to cause some gentrification. What are your thoughts on that? Bill Arent [00:18:50] I think it's a tricky issue everywhere, maybe less of an issue here because some of the places we're developing are raw land. In Symphony Park, the projects are being built on a former railroad site that had sat vacant for decades. We're just now starting to get into the neighborhoods where gentrification is going to become an issue. I think that's where mixed-income housing becomes really important to look at policies and practices like first rights for residents to be able to move back into the properties after they're built. This is an issue we're tackling with one of our larger opportunities in the historic West Side at Marble Manor, which was a public housing authority property. Marble Manor is up for a redevelopment project where they're talking about knocking down units that were built a generation ago and look to build new mixed income housing, but do it in a way that is suitable for the neighborhood. I think suitability is a big issue. What's suitable for a neighborhood? Gentrification is a process that market forces may push it on its own. What can the city do to alleviate that? I think we can do mixed income housing. I think we can have responsible development and it's not going to be class A, high rise or class A apartments everywhere. I think there are opportunities to look at a more balanced approach as we get into some of the neighborhoods. INFRASTRUCTURE Howard F Kline [00:20:25] Infrastructure, what is the city doing or planning in terms of improving infrastructure in some of these opportunity zones that may not have the most modern infrastructure? Infrastructure would be cable, transportation. Probably those would be the basically communication and transportation would be the most major that I can think of for opportunity zones. OPEN & PARK SPACE Bill Arent [00:20:53] Infrastructure is a big part of our redevelopment program to begin with. In some areas, we’ve redone the streets and put in new landscaping. One of the big things that maybe other communities take for granted is just having quality open space and park space. We have a downtown masterplan vision that found that we were have the lowest amount of open space of just about any downtown out there, much lower than Phoenix, for instance. We are looking to try and fix that. We may not develop our own Central Park or our version of Central Park, but we can have nicer landscape features, green space, open space and a trail system. TRANSPORTATION AND COMMUNICATION One of the big visions is we're having a turn to have a trail system downtown to basically link all of her neighborhoods, to have jogging, jogging paths, bicycle paths, and that that's a big effort under way. As an example, Third Street between Bonneville and then extending south into the arts district, that's going to be a new trail system to have essentially do the thing that all traffic engineers hate, where we narrow the street but widen the sidewalks and other amenities so that it becomes a more walkable, more welcoming environment. One of the reasons I love living in Las Vegas is we have a great climate, most of the year. If you have a nice landscaped path where you can you can walk to the restaurants, having a shade canopy means everything. You can drop the temperature 20 degrees. Transportation is really important. We're working with the RTC on having a light-rail alternative coming down Maryland Parkway from the airport in the university and downtown.  Telecommunications is also very important. We’re looking at upgrading the fiber downtown, connecting all of our neighborhoods, making sure that we have connected communities. That's really important also. HOW TO GET INVOLVED Howard F Kline [00:23:15] If someone wanted to get involved and help, how would they go about doing that? Bill Arent [00:23:21] Well, I think the first way to get involved and help is just to be informed. Certainly, engage us at the city of Las Vegas. We have some great constituency groups that update all of our partners on projects. We have a business association called the Downtown Vegas Alliance, which is a great way to plug in. We have other, very important business groups like the Las Vegas Metro Chamber and the Las Vegas Global Economic Alliance. Other practical way is if you have interests in opportunity zones, just reach out to us. We're here to help. Again, I mentioned we have over a third of the state's opportunity zones, so this is a big opportunity statewide. But we have the lion's share in our city and in the heart of our downtown. We're looking for projects big and small. While we certainly have some big projects on the drawing board there are also opportunity for smaller investors such as family wealth offices. We think our opportunity zones are as compelling as any in the country. The momentum swing is to have investment and development coming into downtown. And now with that added benefit, really the sky's the limit for Las Vegas.

This is our first in our weekly series of live-streaming shows, focused on Opportunity Zones. Neal Bawa was our special guest. Neal talked about his, "The Five Perils of Opportunity Zones". It originally aired at 2:45, PM on August 27, 2019. Neal and I have been cautioning people about Opportunity Zones. Despite all of our concerns and pleas for caution, we both still feel that Opportunity Zone Investments can be a tremendous investment consideration.  Neal states that statistics and research bears out his belief that there are, at least 1,200 Opportunity Zones with countless properties that should support sound and future growth. Who Should Watch and Listen This show is for anyone who has sold or is thinking about selling property and is looking to reinvest their capital gains and minimize the taxes owed on capital Gains. It should also be of interest to real estate brokers, accountant, attorneys and business brokers and investors. Show Topics As part of this show, Neal and I will be discussing: What Opportunity Zones to Avoid and Why What Part Does the Developer Play in the Investment Decision and How to Choose the Right Developer; and The Five Benchmarks of a Good to Great Opportunity Zone Project How to Find the Basic Data to Help Make the Right Decisions. His current Opportunity Zone project Neal is offering a free ebook on the topic. To get the free ebook, click here. Neal has also provided some valuable links that he referred to in the interview My Opportunity zone project – www.grocapitus.com/provo The 5 perils of OZ ebook - https://www.grocapitus.com/oz-5-perils/ Benchmarks and where to get the data Population growth – search google for Population Median household income growth – www.city-data.com Median home price growth – www.city-data.com Crime reduction – www.city-data.com Job growth – www.deptofnumbers.com/employment/metros Opportunity zone ranking – www.investreal.com (create free account)

We are hearing all kinds of warnings about a slow down in the economy and signs of an upcoming recession. Today,  Peter and I will be talking about possible conflicting economic indicators, from a lay perspective. As part of our conversation, we will be discussing the Yield Curve; what it is and what does it mean? We will also be discussing other economic indicators, including wage growth and  retail bankruptcies.  This show was live on August 29, 2019 at 4:00 pm, PST. SHOW TOPICS THERE ARE CONFLICTING ECONOMIC SIGNALS INDICATIONS OF A RECESSION IN THE NEAR FUTURE WE HAVE SEEN ECONOMIC GROWTH FOR A RECORD, MORE THAN 10 YEARS A Recession is inevitable INVERTED YIELD CURVE What is referenced as the Yield Curve? “A yield curve is a way to easily visualize this difference; it's a graphical representation of the yields available for bonds of equal credit quality and different maturity dates”. https://tinyurl.com/fidelity-yield-curve “A yield curve is a way to measure bond investors' feelings about risk and can have a tremendous impact on the returns you receive on your investments.” https://tinyurl.com/fidelity-yield-curve “The one you'll probably hear referred to most often as "the yield curve" reflects the short, intermediate, and long-term rates of US Treasury securities. The Treasury yield curve is often referred to as a proxy for investor sentiment on the direction of the economy.” https://tinyurl.com/fidelity-yield-curve Generally, a normal yield curve is when short-term bonds and treasury notes yield lower returns than longer term bonds and treasury notes What is an “Inverted Yield Curve”? Generally, when long-term bonds and treasury notes yield lower returns than short-term bonds and notes. What does it mean? May evidence investor’s lack of confidence in the economy Focus is on liquidity THE RICH AREN’T SPENDING See CNBC Article https://tinyurl.com/Rich-rnt-spending A sudden pullback in spending among the wealthy could cascade down to the rest of the economy and create a further drag on growth. High-end real estate is having its worst year since the financial crisis. Luxury retailers are struggling while discounters like Walmart and Target thrive. At this month’s massive Pebble Beach car auctions, the most expensive cars faltered on the block. In the first half of 2019, art auction sales were down for the first time in years. How accurate is the data? CONTINUING RETAIL BANKRUPTCIES FOREVER 21 RUMORS Forever 21 has 815 Locations CNBC reports that "Forever 21 is Simon’s seventh largest in-line tenant in terms of how much rent it brings the landlord, with 99 stores across Simon’s portfolio. CEO David Simon had told analysts in July that he would consider infusing more capital into distressed retailers, not naming names specifically, in order to guarantee keeping stores open. Simon helped buy teen apparel retailer Aeropostale out of bankruptcy court roughly three years ago " https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/28/forever-21-reportedly-preparing-potential-bankruptcy-filing.html Yahoo Finance reports that "A bankruptcy filing would help the company shed unprofitable stores and recapitalize the business, said the people, who requested anonymity discussing private negotiations. Representatives for Forever 21 didn’t respond to a request for comment. Co-founder Do Won Chang had been focused on maintaining a controlling stake in the company, which limited its fundraising options. A faction of Forever 21 officials, without the approval of Chang, had asked its biggest landlords to consider taking a stake in the company amid a disagreement within its leadership, Bloomberg previously reported." https://finance.yahoo.com/news/forever-21-prepares-potential-bankruptcy-201802375.html b. ANNE TAYLOR and DRESS BARN https://tinyurl.com/Retail-Rumors The New York Post has reported that “Mahwah, NJ-based Ascena, which also owns Ann Taylor, Loft, Lane Bryant and tween retailer Justice, has not returned the lenders’ calls and emails for at least a month, raising concerns about whether the publicly traded company is preparing to file for bankruptcy protection”. The Post noted that there are no reports that payments to the lenders have not been missed. A telling story might be whether rent payments have been missed. A bankruptcy strategy can be to hold off on rent payments to bankroll a bankruptcy. Is keeping count of closings, only an accurate indicator of the health of retail? CONTINUING ECONOMIC EXPANSION AND STRENGTH ECONOMY IS STILL ROARING UNEMPLOYMENT AT RECORD OR NEAR RECORD LOWS WAGES ARE GOING UP There is a push to increase minimum wage. See Bisnow article at https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/economy/minimum-wage-increases-putting-pressure-on-hotel-retail-and-industrial-businesses-100509 Conflicting reads on rise of wages/minimum wage People spend more money, which in a consumer economy raises prices (inflation) but continues a strong economy May put downward pressure on profits by increasing costs

As part of our live CRE Radio & TV on August 22, 2019, Rex Hime gives a brief history of Proposition 13, What it did and continues to do in California and the most recent push to carve out commercial properties from its protections.

In this episode of CRE Radio & TV live, Peter and I discuss what you should expect from your real estate broker.  This is a bit of an introspective in which we address what we expect of ourselves, as service providers, business people and real estate brokers. This show was a live broadcast originally aired on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter/Periscope on August 15, 2019 at 4:00 pm., Pacific time. This recorded video and podcast has been edited. The following is an outline of what we will be discussing. The written portion of this post will change after the original airing. Excel Don’t be average Give more than 120% as often as possible Don’t be a commodity Clients can get listings online Research and Know the Client Ask Questions Listen Understand what they want Do Research on the client, before, during and after my representation UNDERSTAND WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF Are my skills, knowledge, experience in alignment with what the client needs or wants? Am I the right person for the job? Do I have the time? Do I have a team that I can work with or should I refer the representation out to someone else? What is Your market knowledge? Focus on: Details, but don't get lost in details; How dis this done? Process; What is my process? Be Flexible and nimble; I’m a detail person. I like to explain so that the client fully and clearly understands and can make the best, informed decision. However, some of my client’s prefer not to get the details. The client is the decision maker Remember that the client is the decision maker. I’m there to help them make the best decision possible. Understand the client’s needs and wants; Communication How does the client prefer to be communicated with; Telephone; Email; Letter; In person   How much detail How much information do they want and in what format; Often and Consistently SPECIFIC SHOULD’S AND SHOULDN’TS SHOULD’S Expect loyalty; To get loyalty should you give loyalty; Exclusive representation Truthful and accurate representations Genuiness Admission of errors? For the Buyer or Tenant Properties should be physically previewed before property is presented to the client Published listings are generally designed to generate interest and are likely not to describe the warts; Agent should know the market and have done an: Area Survey; Physically explore and understand: Other properties within relevant proximity to identified property that you will be presenting to the client; Speak to sellers/landlord’s agent Speak to other brokers Speak to landlord’s, owners and other tenants who are not listed For the Seller or Landlord Agent should be at each showing by the buyers/tenant’s broker and/or their client; Agent should know the market Area Survey; Agent should physically explore and understand: Other properties within relevant proximity to identified property; Speak to other owners or tenants Speak to other brokers Marketing Publications; Where and how often? Open House? Reports SHOULDN’TS  Should send more than just listings or property flyers Detailed analysis and recommendations; Agent shouldn’t just say what they like, don’t like and definitely, shouldn’t state what they would do if they were you. You should get the reasons supporting their analysis; Show imagination, understanding of: Client's wants and needs; Knowledge and experience and the market; Enthusiasm

This post is only intended to give you, just enough information to know if you should be thinking about Opportunity Zones. I will be publishing more articles, videos and podcasts in the future, on the topic, so stay tuned. Even as an attorney for nearly 43 years I have found it complicated with limited guidance from the government. Most of my energy has gone into considering the best strategies for implementing Opportunity Zone investments. The strategies, in most instances will have to be constructed on a case-by-case basis. It’s not just about knowing the law, it’s about understanding it and knowing how, best, to apply it. The full written article and video can be found at https://creradio.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-opportunity-zones/ Howard F. Kline is a Nevada licensed real estate advisor with SVN The Equity Group, located in Las Vegas Nevada. He has also been a licensed California attorney for over 42 years, primarily focused on commercial real estate and has been a licensed California broker and a licensed New York real estate agent. He is also the founder and host of CRE Radio & TV, an online commercial real estate magazine since 2010 and recently founded the Las Vegas Business Journal, an online, media rich, interactive business magazine. For more information, contact Howard at 702.706.4433 or at howard.kline@svn.com.

Peter Morris and I discuss if there really is a Retail Apocalypse, just, fake news or, as Peter suggests, an evolution or shift. This written portion of my post does not cover everything Peter and I discuss on this show. If you want to watch the full video, please click here. This was recorded as part of our CRE Radio & TV, LIVE! MASSIVE AMOUNT OF STORE CLOSURES IN 2019 As part of our discussion, we reference an article in Retail Dive referencing research from Coresight Research, their forecast that there will be 12,000 store closures in 2019, the recent Barney’s and Perkins and Marie Calendars’ bankruptcies and the UBS Securities’ Analysts’ forecast that there needs to be an additional 75,000 more store closures by the year, 2026. When you add all of this to the prediction that Ecommerce will continue to penetrate the retail market from its current 16% to 25% or more it really sounds bad for brick and mortar retail.  Doesn’t it? ARE THE STORE CLOSURES EVIDENCE OF A RETAIL EVOLUTION? Peter and I conclude that it may not be so much of a Retail Apocalypse as aa Retail Evolution. Yes, for some retailers and landlord’s it is and will be an Apocalypse. But, for many others, it doesn’t have to be. We also caution that these one-sided predictions, often do not indicate whether they have taken into account store openings or changes in format. Using the example of Pizza Hut’s planned, 700 store closings. Sounds an awful lot like a “Retail Apocalypse,” yes? Well, not so fast. What they are looking to do is change their decades old format of larger, sit down restaurants to smaller take-out style. For every store they close, they may be opening twice as many smaller locations. Peter references “right sizing” and explains the concept. WHICH RETAIL WILL SURVIVE AS THINGS CHANGE? Have you ever read the book, “Who Moved My Cheese?” If you feel like the earth is moving underneath your feet, (yes this is a metaphor), then I highly recommend it. It’s a short read, something that I call a “potty reader”. It also uses a metaphor, that of how certain mice can navigate a maze when they realize that their cheese is no longer where it once was and how some mice never realize their cheese is no longer where it used to be. The retail “cheese” hasn’t moved, for most, but it is moving and moving rapidly. WHAT IS CAUSING THE STORE CLOSURES? Peter and I explore some of what we believe is causing the store closures. Is it a shift in demographics? Is it all about Ecommerce? WHAT IS PSYCHOGRAPHICS? Peter likes to use the term psychographics. What is psychographics, anyhow? As it relates to consumers, a Google search reveals a dictionary description as an, “Analysis of consumer lifestyles to create a detailed customer profile. ... As you can see, psychographics focuses on the underlying interests, activities, values, and opinions that motivate consumers to buy.” ARE BUYING HABITS CHANGING? What about changes in buying habits? IS RETAIL OVERBUILT? Is retail overbuilt? In this respect, we also touch on one of my pet peeves; diminishing value. At least around where I live, I see restaurant prices going up and value going down. I am confident that when there is an economic downturn, these low value restaurants will be the first to go by way of the dinosaurs. We also touch upon the likelihood of a retailer emerging from a Chapter 11 bankruptcy and how a retailer bankruptcy often differs from other bankruptcies. To learn more about Peter and The Greenstead Goup, click here.  The author: Howard F. Kline is a Nevada licensed real estate advisor with SVN The Equity Group, located in Las Vegas Nevada. He has also been a licensed California attorney for over 42 years, primarily focused on commercial real estate and has been a licensed California broker and a licensed New York real estate agent. He is also the founder and host of CRE Radio & TV, an online commercial real estate magazine since 2010 and recently founded the Las Vegas Business Journal, an online, media rich, interactive business magazine. For more information, contact Howard at 702.706.4433 or at howard.kline@svn.com.

In this episode of CRE Radio, (audio only podcast), I interview Matt Smith, Vice President at Realnex. Matt describes Realnex as: “A one place, one stop solution….. the technology behind the deal of real estate.” Realnex, according to Matt, is essentially a commercial real estate company in a box. You grab your license and they have the “solutions to help the brokers win, from contact to close.” It is important to note that while Matt and I are involved in the business of commercial real estate, the concepts and principals expressed in our conversation are applicable to any person or business looking to boost their business through the use of social media. I originally invited Matt to discuss how he has ascended to his position of social media influencer in the commercial real estate world, (for those noncommercial real estate aficionados reading this, “CRE” is an acronym for commercial real estate). As part of the interview, we discuss his humble beginnings, natural affinity for sales, (starting with trading baseball cards) and his use of social media to help develop and increase sales as part of his business process. As part of REA, later acquired by Realnex, Matt was looking into reworking REA’s marketing process. As part of that effort, Matt explains that he started googling for information on marketing, SEO, (search engine optimization[i]) and social media. He emphasizes that, before he starts a project, he tries to educate himself on the topic. He informs himself on as much information as possible to make sure that he plans and executes the project with the greatest likelihood of success. To me, this is a key to success. It’s not that you have to be an expert or even be the person to execute every task of a project. It is, however, important to know enough of each element of a project, in order to know and understand what tasks are necessary to complete a project, the relationship of each task to other tasks and their relationship to the whole. If you are going to market online, you may not be an SEO expert, but you, at least need to know what it is and its importance to successful online marketing. Hooray for Matt’s thirst for knowledge and thoroughness. As a result of his research, Matt gained a solid understanding of SEO and the concept of backlinking in order to gain higher rankings in Google searches. He understood that through his posts and an understanding of SEO, more people would know of him, (I refer to this as “presence”). He explains that his posts were more social than strategic. According to Matt, about 8-9 years ago, of the two major social media platforms that the used for business, LinkedIn was more business focused while Twitter was much more social. He found and continues to find Twitter a great way to touch other people relevant to his business, but in a more, social way, than LinkedIn. Matt and I have found that. Twitter is really good at inciting interaction among people with similar interests. It’s not that you can’t post relevant business content, but the interaction seems more genuine and promotes relationships. You can actually like someone from Twitter interaction. To be clear, I am not talking about advertising or posting about your listings, products or services. This is a topic of another discussion. Our social media discussion includes LinkedIn, where it was, where it is and where it may be headed. Hint, more social. On my own part, as I started using Twitter, LinkedIn began losing its luster with me. I found it much easier to interact on Twitter than on LinkedIn, particularly since LinkedIn limited your network by discouraging contact with people that you didn’t already know, whereas Twitter promoted expanding your network. As a promotional tool to the wider universe, Twitter was/is more adept. With that being said, I see LinkedIn starting to adapt and change. Matt recounts a discussion with Yuhannes Watts who convinced Matt that “LinkedIn is not about you. Yuhannes explained that people don’t care about how awesome you think you are; they want to know what you can do for them.” I add, don’t tell people how awesome you are, show them. Tell stories of situations where you or your product helped people or enriched their lives. During the interview, Matt and I talk about the value of retweeting posts and whether or not you should comment when retweeting. When you retweet on Twitter, you are given the option of retweeting with or without a comment. I believe, most people appreciate when someone retweets their tweet. It spreads your post beyond your most immediate followers, and it may indicate, at least, on the surface, some level of engagement. Retweeting with a relevant comment, particularly a comment to the underlying article or post, indicates that someone has actual found the underlying article interesting enough to read, listen or watch and is a much deeper and personal form of engagement Genuine engagement is the type of engagement that can lead to relationships. Relationships can lead to trust, which is a fundamental basis for creating a business relationship and ultimately generating revenue. Matt’s Twitter posts are primarily focused on the personal and not related to his business purpose. His ultimate business purpose is to sell more RealNex subscriptions. Presence: This is also known as “branding”. He has worked towards that ultimate purpose by first becoming known on social media among his commercial real estate piers. You can’t sell anything unless people first know that you exist. Likeness: Being liked is very important in most relationships on social media. His tweets make people laugh, smile or otherwise think well of him. As a result, people like him and are more likely to follow him. We know that people do business with those that they like. Presence and likeness can create more followers. However, we know that followers alone does not necessarily translate into business. You want active followers, those that engage with you. Engagement: This is the holy grail of social media. On social media, if you are going to sell a product or service, you likely need to do more than, just be known and liked, you need engagement. Engagement occurs when two people interact with each other in a meaningful way that can lead to an ongoing relationship. Those people that engage with you on social media are active followers. It is this ongoing relationship that can lead to trust. It is trust that can lead to sales. Matt’s tweets attract followers and commercial real estate people who like him. He, of course, is a very likeable person.  This accumulation of “active” followers has garnered him some notoriety among other commercial real estate influencers, which I attribute to his increasing, social media influence. This increased exposure, presence and influence should lead to increased sales for Matt. This is not a direct sale strategy nor is it a short-term strategy. It takes time and effort. It takes an openness and willingness to be yourself and trust yourself. Howard F. Kline is a Nevada licensed real estate advisor with SVN The Equity Group, located in Las Vegas Nevada. He has also been a licensed California attorney for over 42 years, primarily focused on commercial real estate and has been a licensed California broker and a licensed New York real estate agent. He is also the founder and host of CRE Radio & TV, an online commercial real estate magazine since 2010 and recently founded the Las Vegas Business Journal, an online, media rich, interactive business magazine. For more information, contact Howard at 702.706.4433 or at howard.kline@svn.com. [i] Search engine optimization has been defined as the process of getting traffic from the “free,” “organic,” “editorial” or “natural” search results on search engines.

In today’s podcast, I interview Bryan Copely, co-founder and ceo of Citybldr, spelled “c” “i” “t” “y” “b” “l” “d” “r” Citybldr is all about helping property owners, developers, buyers, sellers and brokers find the highest and best use for their property. Not only does it help determine the highest and best use, it also  What does highest and best use mean, you ask. The appraisal institute defines highest and best use of real property as "the reasonably probable, and legal use of vacant land or an improved property that is physically possible, appropriately supported, financially feasible and that results in the highest value."  Bryan and i are going to talk about how citybldr helps you maximize the return on your real property investment through the use of a combination of human and ai analysis. At its heart, Citybldr is a technology solution. It uses machine learning on dozens of disparate data sources to build a proprietary valuation, that they call the "CityBldr Estimate". But technology is not the only resource at their disposal. They take advantage of both human and AI analysis and work with experienced developers to verify their assumptions and to help build the accuracy of our predictions. Citybldr doesn't only help you with determining the best value, it has it's own marketplace to put buyers and sellers together. During this interview, we also discuss Bryan's Horatio Alger story of how he went from cleaning toilets to becoming the head of a number of entrepreneurial, technology companies. His story is near and dear to me because, I'm a working man of modest beginnings. I started with many menial jobs, including cleaning toilets, being a swamper on trucks, working a car wash, mowing lawns, selling men's suits and hauling bales of used newspapers.  This was all before I became an attorney, 42 years ago, served as General Counsel 4 different times, held real estate licenses 3 different times in 2 states and now, about to receive my real estate license in Nevada, making it my 4th license in 3 states. For more information on Citybldr, go to https://citybldr.com.  For more information about me, go to: http://creradio.com http://lvbusinessjournal.com or contact me at howard@suncommercial.com You can also watch an edited, (5 minute video) or a full length video at CRE Radio & TV

Today’s podcast is about stepping out of your comfort zone and becoming the best that you can be. What, you say, I thought that this was all about commercial real estate? Well, yes, my podcasts are about commercial real estate and more. In this podcast, I interview Tara Piurko, the 2018 president of CREW Network, an international organization of and about women in commercial real estate. For those of you who do not know, CREW is an acronym for Commercial Real Estate Women. It's clear in the beginning of the interview that this is not Tara's favorite thing to do. It seemed odd for an accomplished professional woman, the head of an international organization, experienced in dealing with powerful persons and speaking to large groups of people, is uncomfortable while being interviewed, by little oll me. But she was, at least in the beginning of the interview. As she warmed up, she told an inspiring story of how she overcame her initial shyness and stretched herself out of her comfort zone and became much more than she originally allowed herself to be. Among other things, Tara talks about mentorship, something of particular importance to CREW Network. Yes, Tara credits a considerable amount of her success to her involvement and engagement in CREW Network. And while I am a huge supporter of CREW Network and diversity, her story is more than about women.  It is a story on how anyone can grow and the value of being engaged in a great, supportive organization such as CREW. Finally, let me add that CREW is not just for women. I’ve joined the local CREW Network Chapter in Las Vegas and I am proud to be a member, ah, let me add, as soon as they accept me. Let me also give special thanks to our sponsor for our interviews at ICSC Recon 2018, Quantum Listing and David Perlmutter and Perlmutter Properties. Quantum Listing is a crowd-sourced real estate listing platform for commercial real estate agents, owners and tenants. For more information go to www.quantumlisting.com Quantum Listing was founded by David Perlmutter who has been a real estate agent since 1986. He created Quantum Listing to as a service that he actually wanted to use and that would serve his needs as a real estate agent. He wanted something that was user friendly and inexpensive. One of the key components of Quantum Listing is that it is integrated with social media so that you can share you listing easily on LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook. For more information, go to www.quantumlisting.com. 

I've interviewed Joe on two previous occasions and it has always been an extreme pleasure. This interview took place with Joe at the ICSC Recon Convention in Las Vegas in May, 2018. For the unfamiliar, ICSC is an acronym for the International Council of Shopping Centers. Recon is their big convention with over 35,000 people in attendance. To be clear, Joe is not a mere mortal. He is one of the four founders of Inland Real Estate Group of Companies and is currently the Vice Chair of The Inland Real Estate Group of Companies, LLC and President of Inland Real Estate Acquisitions, LLC. For Joe's bio, click here.  Inland is celebrating it's 50th year in business. It just so happens that Joe is also celebrating his 50th wedding anniversary. Those are pretty impressive numbers. In the first part of this interview, Joe gives us his take on what it takes to make it 50 years. After the break he tells me what retailers must do to survive in light of all of the changes and and finally, he gives us his vision of the future of retail real estate. For more information on CRE Radio & TV and other video or audio programs as well as our live streaming schedule, click here