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If you have an offset account and use the equity in your home for investment purposes, you should be able to claim a tax deduction. Right? Don't worry if you answered Yes. We did as well. Until this interview with Geoff Stein of Brown Wright Stein Lawyers in Sydney.

Michael Filler and Matthew Realff discuss Fundamental Manufacturing Process innovations. We explore what they are, dig into historical examples, and consider how we might enable more of them to happen. Michael and Matthew are both professors at Georgia Tech and Michael also hosts an excellent podcast about nanotechnology called Nanovation. Our conversation centers around their paper Fundamental Manufacturing Process Innovation Changes the World. If you’re in front of a screen while you’re listening to this, you might want to pull up the paper to look at the pictures. Key Takeaways Sometimes you need to go down to go back up The interplay between processes and paradigms is fascinating We need to spend more time hanging out in the valley of death Links Fundamental Manufacturing Process Innovation Changes the World(Medium)(SSRN) Michael on Twitter Matthew Realff's Website Michael Filler's Website Nanovation Podcast Topics - The need for the innovator to be near the process - Continuous to discrete shifts - Defining paradigms outlines what progress looks like - Easy to pay attention to artifacts, hard to pay attention - Hard to recreate processes - The 1000x rule of process innovations - Quality vs price improvements - Process innovation as a discipline - Need to take a performance hit to switch paradigms - How to enable more fundamental manufacturing process innovations Transcript [00:00:00] this conversation, I talked to Michael filler and Matthew Ralph about fundamental manufacturing process innovations. We explore what they are, dig into historical examples and consider how we might enable more of them to happen. Michael and Matthew are both professors at Georgia tech and Michael also hosts an excellent podcast about nanotechnology called innovation. Our conversation centered around their paper called fundamental [00:01:00] manufacturing process. Innovation changes the world, which I've looked to in the show notes and highly recommend the fact that they posted it on medium. In addition to more traditional methods, give you a hint that they think a bit outside the normal academic box. However, I actually recommend the PDF version on SSRN, which is not behind a paywall only because it has great pictures for each process that I found super helpful. If you're in front of a screen, while you're listening to this, I suspect that having them handy, it might enhance the conversation. And here we go. the, the place that I'd love to start is, to sort of give everybody a, get them used to both of your voices and sort of assign a personality, a personality to each of you. so if each of you would say a bit about yourselves, and the. The, the sort of key bit that I've loved you to say is to, to focus on something that you believe that many people in your discipline would sort [00:02:00] of cock an eyebrow at because clearly by publishing this piece on medi you sort of identify yourself as not run of the mill professors.   Oh boy. Okay. So we're going to start juicy, real juicy. So I guess I'll go since I'm speaking, this is Mike filler speaking. Great to be here. so I've been a professor of chemical engineering at Georgia tech for a little over 10 years now. my research group works in nanoscale materials and device synthesis and scale up. So for say electronics applications, Yeah. I mean, this article, which we'll talk about emerged from, you know, can I say a frustration that I had around electronics really is where it started for me, at least, that. We have all this focus on new materials or new device physics or new circuit. And I know your listeners are probably thinking about morphic computing or quantum computing, and these are all very cool things, but it seemed to me [00:03:00] that we were entirely missing the process piece. The, how do we build computers? and, and, and circuitry. And, and so that's where this started for me was, starting to realize if we're not dealing with the process piece, that we're, we're missing a huge chunk of it. And I think one of the things is that people, people miss that where within working within the context of something developed 50 or 60 years ago, in many cases, and it's it's was really hidden to a lot of people. And so that, that was where I came at this. Great. All right. So, yeah, so I'm, also a professor of chemical and biomolecular engineering at Georgia tech. my background is actually in process systems engineering. And, if you go back to the late 1960s, early 1970s, actually frankly, before I was a much more than in shorts, there was a, that was a real push towards. The role of process systems engineering in [00:04:00] chemical engineering in it really arose with the, with the advent of computing and the way that computing could be used to help in chemical engineering. And then slowly over time, the, the role of process systems engineering has become, I think, marginalized within the chemical engineering community, it's gone much over towards. What I call science and engineering science in a way from the process systems piece of it. And so, you know, as Mike would, would berate me with the, with his travails over, over what he was trying to do with nano integration and nanotechnology, I realized that what he was doing was describing a lot of the same frustrations I felt with the way that process systems engineering was being marginalized and pushed to the edges of chemical engineering with the. Focus more around fundamental discoveries rather than actually how we translate those fundamental discoveries, into, functioning, processes that then lead to outcomes that affect society. So for me, it, it, it [00:05:00] was a, it was a combination of, talking to Mike and then my own frustrations around how my own field was somewhat marginalized within the context of chemical engineering. Got it. And, sort of to, to anchor everybody and, and start us off. could you just explain what a fundamental manufacturing process innovation it's. So the way we think of fundamental process innovation or manufacturing process innovation is actually rethinking how the steps in a process are organized and connected together. And so that has become the paradigm which we have. we have set for fundamental manufacturing process innovation, and these innovations come in in different categories that enable us to put these processes together. And one of the examples of which for example, is. I'm factoring taking something that has been done together at one process step and separating it into two different steps that occur maybe at different [00:06:00] times or in different places. And by so doing, we actually enable us to make, a tremendous change in the way that that process operates. So it's really around. The strategy for organizing and executing the manufacturing steps and using a set of schema is to sort of understand how over history we have been able to do that. Do you want to add to that mic? Yeah. I want to take a step back outside of manufacturing. So one of the examples we give at the outset of the piece is not in manufacturing, but in shopping something that every single person listening to this can wrap their mind around, I think. and I still love the example cause it just kind of. I miss it every single day. and this is all pre COVID thinking of course, but the idea that say a hundred years ago, and a lot or Western societies, you would go to let's call it the general store. and you'd walk in, go up to the counter. And, if I have a list maybe, and you'd handle lists to the purveyor, and they would go [00:07:00] in the back rows of shelves and they'd pull off what was on your list and they'd bring it out to you, you pay for it and you go on your Merry way. And then, you know, several decades ago, this started to change, probably half century my ex ex ex. Exactly sure. The timing, but, to, to a model, where instead of a single shop keeper, having to interface with many individual, shoppers, it was now many shoppers who did the traversing of those aisles themselves, right? This is at least in Western society is what we are familiar with today as the grocery store or the target or the Walmart. And what you do is you. Trade one thing for another in doing that right. Instead of, the person, the, the purveyor, getting things for you, which from a customer's perspective is very nice. Right? you, you, you no longer have that, right. You're being told. Okay. He used to, yeah, he or she used to get it for you now. You're going to go and traverse the ALS yourself. But you do get something in return as the [00:08:00] shopper. And that is a lower costs because now one store at the same time can be, open to many, many people stopping shopping simultaneously. So, selection goes up, costs go down and there's a benefit for the customer, and the shopkeeper. So this is an example of a process innovation it's the it's still shopping, but it, it takes the old process paradigm and inserts a new one. Excellent. And so you, in your paper, you illustrate eight major historical, fundamental process innovations. And I would love to sort of frame the conversation by walking through them so that, a just because they're great history and B, so that everybody can sort of be anchored on the very concrete, examples while at the same time, I'll, I'll sort of poke at, The, the more sort of abstract questions and ideas around this. so the, the first, [00:09:00] the first one you talked about is the shift from the new Komen to the watt steam production process. So like, what was that? And, and why was that important? it was important because, what it did was it changed fundamentally how we could make power. So the newcomer engine had, the condensation of steam in the same vessel, as, as the, as what was being the vacuum was being pulled to enable the, Pulling of water up from the coal mines in Britain, turns out it's actually 10 mines rather than coal mines, where this was first developed. And what, what did was to factor that's one of a fundamental process schema factor, the two pieces so that the vacuum pulling and the condensation happened in different vessels. And as a result of that, he was able to increase the efficiency of the steam engine by, an order of magnitude. and, and through other innovations that then followed from that. The steam engine became [00:10:00] significantly more efficient. Now, what did that do? Well, the first thing it did was is it meant that you could pump water out of deeper mines, so you could actually now get coal out of deeper mines and so you can increase coal production significantly. The other thing it did, of course, it meant that for the same amount of power, the engine could actually get quite a bit smaller. In fact, it could get small enough that he could actually move itself on rails. And so what that also then enabled was. Stevenson and essentially the invention of railways without the steam engine. You wouldn't have railways with railways. Now, suddenly you can bring the coal, which you've now enabled yourself to dig out of Deepa mines. You can now bring that to manufacturing sentence. So there's a whole follow on set of innovations. And in fact, a complete reorganization it's called the industrial revolution. That is, that is based on these kinds of process innovations. And this was one of the most central ones, right? To that actual outcome was the idea of factoring these students. [00:11:00] Two steps leading to much greater efficiency in the way that a steam engine could be used. And, and that, there's actually two pieces that I think are fascinating about that. And one is, this phenomenon that you see over and over again, where what I would sort of call a continuous efficiency increases, right? Where it's. It was, it was like a fairly steady, increase of efficiency. But then, because as you point out, it eventually got efficient enough that it could power, a rail car that all of a sudden made this like discrete difference in what the process was actually capable. and I feel like you see this in school, many of the examples that you give, and I like, I just love that. And then the other piece. That I believe is the case. Is that, what was, what was, new Cummins apprentice, right? That I'm not sure about that actually. I mean, I think he was familiar with new [00:12:00] comes work. but I don't know if he was actually his apprentice or not in that particular context. W w and the reason that I ask is that, like, do you think that what would have been able to. Create this, this process innovation, if he hadn't been like, sort of actively working with the new Komen engine in the first place. No, I think the answer is, is that without that he, he, you know, you have that you had to have a starting point. And I think he understood, once, once he sold the starting point that, yeah, that was a, there was a way in which he could make this more efficient. the other thing about the, the, the efficiency and the scanning of efficiency is what we see in a lot of these fundamental process innovations is that there is a step change, but not only that, it shows how then off to that fundamental process innovation has happened. That, that can be this continuous increase, right? So there is, it unlocks an enormous potential to suddenly change the game in terms of the efficiency. So, [00:13:00] so the point being that say the original engine was maybe less than, than 3%. Maybe one, 2% efficient. And what, what did with the sort of next version was increased that by an order of magnitude, and then suddenly with that innovation now by better manufacturing, higher pressure vessels, et cetera, you could actually then go into an even higher level of, of efficiency. Not only that, but it drove the development of the sort of discipline of thermodynamics. Now you have to analyze the engines on their efficiencies and understand what could lead to greater efficiency in the future. And so, and you know, entirely scientific discipline was built on top of the, of innovations that were occurring in heat engines. Yeah. Well, I think there's an important point here in the efficiency discussion, right? And Matthew and I have chatted about this. A fair amount is that you kind of have the efficiency piece and as you're pointing out, Ben, it's really critical. Look it up for some threshold with a lot of these, but efficiency is kind of zero to a hundred, [00:14:00] right? And then you have the whole cost throughput piece. And as we show in the piece, you have many orders of magnitude possible gains on that side of the equation. and some of it goes hand in hand with efficiency, but I sometimes think that that is there's an overemphasis, often on efficiency.   you gotta get through the threshold and then recognize that the driving down of costs or increasing of throughput can happen, you know, a million X, you know, as, as for example, the planar process of integrated circuit shows it's more than a million X decrease in cost over time. Yeah. And, and this, this idea is that, that you point out about almost sort of like the process innovation, defining a paradigm that then sort of sets the pack for things is, is a theme that we'll like, let's, let's almost like poke it that as we, as we go through through everything else. and, before we move on, I guess the last piece, [00:15:00] sort of going back to. like Watts familiarity with the process in the first place. And sort of tying it back to to today is, I guess what, what's your take on sort of like the, the, the familiarity that the people who are working on cross as possible process innovations have with the processes now, Let's see, I probably phrased that a little bit weird, but, I guess my concern is that there's, there's more of a separation between the people that we expect to do the innovating and the people who are working on the processes. So, so yeah, this is a really critical point. I mean, what we have done in the modern innovation enterprise right, is we've split, so-called fundamental research with applied research. and, these examples, many, the ones that we give are really squarely between the two and they need both [00:16:00] to function. And so this is, for this kind of innovation or real. I think a real issue with the current way, things are set up, because it requires some knowledge of the science that's kind of emerging. It requires some knowledge of some engineering, and it's a matter of integrating these things. And it's not, so much, I think what the prevailing view of the world is, which is fundamental innovation gets developed and leads to some specific technology. It happens between the two. and so that's, that is, that is, That is a theme I think, and these innovations and it's something that I think today is harder to do. we could talk for a long time about why it's harder to do, but it's harder to do today. Cool. Well, we'll, we'll we'll. Circle back on that, as, as we get sort of closer to the present. so can I say one more thing? This is such a good example, but everyone knows the, the watt engine and we are very careful to call it, the watt, what do we call it? We call it the [00:17:00] walk process, right? We call it the what process, what process for energy generation or something like that. But yeah, we focus on the process and I think this is one of the reasons why these kinds of manufacturing innovations are missed all the time is that you focus on the engine, the physical thing that carries out the process and you're missing that. Oh, actually, what, what did was he factored these two steps? It's still a machine like new Coleman's machine, but in the end, what made it so powerful was the underlying process that. It carried out. And I think that that is one of the reasons why these manufacturing innovations are missed in manufacturing versus in other areas where process is talked about much more frequently. So I wanted to make sure, well, actually, as long as we're on that topic, I want to, sort of the talk like the. call out the sort of obsession with novelty in academia, where like, [00:18:00] if like, it's, it's really important to call out the, the process innovation. Because if you look at it just as like steam power, then you could sit, like you could sit a lot, like what's novel, like near your dinner, your power from steam, new colon generated power from steam. and so, so we, like, we need to. Really sort of pay attention to what's going on on the inside and like how that really different, even though on the outside, it does not look that different. For sure. And, and I think the point that we arrived at there is, is, is when we went back into deep history and asked ourselves, well, what do we call the ages of the past? And we call them things like the INH. We don't call it the smelting age. Right. Right, right. We could, we could call it by the process, but we don't, we call it by the thing that was made. you know, we don't, we don't talk, we talk about Flint's and we talk about Flint arrows. We don't talk about the ways in [00:19:00] which those flints were shaped into arrowheads, the flaking and the, and the, and the. But essentially those kinds of processes, which we don't even know in many cases how to reproduce and they lose that knowledge for, for many, many years. In fact centuries, the one example we use in the paper is that a Roman concrete, you know, we were able to, to look at Roman buildings, but we were not able to reproduce them because we had lost the, the recipe. We lost the recipe for making, concrete, with the, with the sort of dissipation of the Roman empire. And so in fact, we couldn't reproduce these buildings, so we could look at them, but we couldn't reproduce them because we had lost the process. Well, I think that that's so key to point out because it's almost what, like similar to the, the streetlight effect where, it's, it's so much easier to look at and point out and talk about the, the artifact. but it's, it's, not as legible what work went into making and even, even now, like, even [00:20:00] now, when you like, literally when everybody's writing everything down, it's still, there are so many little things that go into these processes, that are sort of illegible. and I think that it's. Easy to forget about that and think like, Oh, well, you know, someone wrote it up. Therefore we know everything that can be known about it. Yeah. History is kind of similar, right? The history. Yeah. We, we, we look back on history and we don't see the generator of the history. Yeah. So it's, it's often very hard to get our true handle on what it was that led to certain phenomenon. We, we, we look back and we start to come up with theories. and I mean maybe sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're wrong. We don't have, we have some ways of knowing and other areas. We have no way of knowing because it's, what happened is lost to time. Yeah. Sorry. This is kind of very similar in terms of the fleeting nature of processes. Yeah. And, and, and the fact that it's not easy, I think it should be born out [00:21:00] by anybody who's ever tried to read the materials and methods, sections of academic papers, because you will discover that very rarely do the researchers actually document the materials and methods in sufficient detail to actually reproduce them. There's a, there's a, there's something that they do in the lab that they just forget to write down. That's actually absolutely critical to make the, the, the, the material process work. you'll just discover that they, Oh yeah, we soaked it in methanol for 60 minutes. Oh, I'm sorry. We left that out. you know, there's, there's there are, there are easy to leave out these steps that turn out to be crucial, but they're not the final artifact that's being exhibited in the paper. Yeah. Yeah, there's this, there's this, sorry, there's this, this kind of discussion in, today in science about irreproducibility and we have this reproduction crisis and okay. Maybe we can be doing a better job, but I think a lot of it it's just, as Matthew's describing it's stuff that is not obvious you, as the experimenter are doing the experiment. You, even, if you wrote [00:22:00] down absolutely everything you thought you did. There are things you didn't even realize you were doing that were central to the process and it gets lost. And that, that to me is likely the main source of a lot of these, these issues. Yeah. I wonder what would happen if we actually had a system where you just videoed, literally everything that someone did in a process and then, like captured every key stroke on their computer and it would be it. Yeah, but , I wonder, I wonder whether it would just be completely, unintelligible or  whether there'd be something useful that came out of it. Just for the sake of time. I love, yeah, let's move on the second of eight. so, the, the, the second process you talk about is, the, the, the foreigner process for continuous papermaking, which I did not know anything about before I read this. so yeah, like what, what was that, why was it important? So, so here is it's a lot like, what,   Gutenberg good with the press. but, [00:23:00] paper prior to this innovation was Preston single sheets and dried as single sheets. basically a fully integrated process on one sheet of paper. And, what, continuous papermaking did was it took each of those steps and separated them into individual components. So that's a factoring schema, as we describe in the paper, where you first throw down the slurry of pulp. Right. And then, there's a section where you let the water drain. you consolidate the Pope down into something that's like a sheet, and then you push that sheet through rollers. and then you dry it, but each of those steps are different, right? The pulp deposition, the rolling and the drying are separated in space and time now. Whereas before they were more or less in the same space. And so that, that factoring allows you to scale up by orders and orders of magnitude, that production rate of paper. And so we talk a lot about Gutenberg's press, being central to mass literacy and it clearly [00:24:00] was. But, and, and we're not the first people to point this out, Tim Harford, who I like a lot who writes for the financial times and his own books, has talked about this where, you need to have the continuous paper. Manufacturing piece so that you could get those books to so many more people. And it was really both of those together that, that led to that. The other point I was going to make about that is, is it also revealed that we, that we were going to that as soon as we were able to, you know, produce, paper at large rates, we needed some sort of raw material that could also be produced. At large rates. And so this idea that you are going to continue to use rags as the, as the input, suddenly became difficult. And so people had to scout around for other forms of fiber that you could use. And that's really what led to the whole, you know, creation of, of the pulping industry that, that takes what. Well on the face of it, a tree doesn't exactly. Look like paper, takes a tree and turns it into something that you can make a make paper out of. [00:25:00] So again, it's this upstream and downstream it's the, the downstream effect is, is. The societal mass literacy, the upstream effect is, is the, is the creation of a, of an entire industry around, you know, turning trees into, into pulp. and so some people might disagree with doing that, but, but the bottom line is, is that's what enabled, the, those two pieces to be driven was the creation of the, of the, of, of papermaking in the, in the middle of that. Yeah. And something that. So, did you have a sense of how people were thinking about papermaking? Oh, for, before for generic came up with process that is like, did, did they realize that it should be possible to make paper more efficiently? Or was it just like, just that's the way it wants? because I feel like so many of these process innovations. [00:26:00] There are people just sort of accept whatever level of whatever process we have. And we're like, Oh, like that's the way it is. Yeah. Maybe we can make it a little better until something new comes along. One of the things we were careful to do in the piece. And I'll be honest because we're not historians is to, to try to stay away a little bit from like the, the, the driving forces. Right. And kind of what people were thinking. I'm really focused on the mechanisms. And that's one of the things, you know, I've really enjoyed learning from people who are in the, the progress studies community, that emerging community. in general, I find that they really know a lot about history and that's great. and we really wanted to make sure we could pay attention to mechanism at the, at the actual innovation level. and so I guess I'm saying that as a long winded answer to say, I don't know how they thought about it. but, you know, but I think that there's kind of been a shift over time. you know, Matthew was sending me, show me something from scientific American recently. [00:27:00] They just, what was their anniversary? Matthew? A 175th. I can't remember what that is in Latin, but, but it's, it's a very long and complicated word. Yeah. But  DECA. Yes, exactly. Quickie and no versary. Yes. It's something like that. I buy, if I pumped up, I could go get my issue and they have it in there, but, but it is, it's quite a complicated word. That's all I remember. And they have a article in there talking about the shift in how people speak, spoke about science and engineering. And, h hundred years ago, there was this kind of more engineering processing, which that was far more common. And then around at the time of world war two, it kind of shifted, be more about science and the emphasis on science. At least as far as that magazine goes, but I think the magazine is probably fairly representative of the endeavor as a whole. And so, yeah, that's, that's kind of fascinating. You're saying, did they appreciate, whether the process could be [00:28:00] better? And my gut feeling is they maybe in, in the 18 hundreds, they appreciated that it could be better, more. Did they have an appreciation for how much better that's that's probably dubious. Right? I think most of these, if you went back and asked the original innovator. Did you know, you were setting us on a pathway or a trajectory that led to, you know, the world, as we know it today, I think they'd probably be like, wow, no, I did not expect that. I just was trying to make an extra buck. Yeah. But I think it's like, it's actually almost like a powerful, admonition people to sort of like, keep in mind the different schemas that you lay out and just to like walk around the world. Saying like, Oh, like, could this, could this apply here? and it almost like gives you a bit of humility that it might be possible that like these could always happen. that's for us, that's kind of [00:29:00] emerging from doing this and we're, we're continuing to work on, on, on next pieces basically is a kind of a thousand X heuristic. Whereas you have a two D technology today and you ask yourself, can I do it a thousand X cheaper or a thousand X faster? with the way we do it today? if the answer is yes. Okay, great. And you're really competent that if the answer is no, it may be time for a process innovation. Maybe to us a thousand X is, is sufficiently beyond someone,   you know, giving you the pop out answer. Of course, we've made progress in the last 10 years and I expect more progress. Well, that's kind of a cop out answer. A thousand X is quite a bit faster or quite a bit a higher throughput. So that's, I think that's a good metric for anyone working on any technology. and I think COVID COVID is a great example of what we've been experiencing in the last, however many months. It feels like two years, and you know, we needed rapid vaccine [00:30:00] manufacturing. We needed rapid testing, basically a thousand X faster. And we didn't really have that capability in hand and people have done tremendous work right in the, in the intervening months to try and get us a lot closer. I know Matthew has done some work on this. but when the whole thing started, we hadn't really thought about it so much yet. How could we speed up this a thousand X? And so for us, it's a pretty good heuristic is that, is I like that a lot. That is a very powerful heuristic. and it's also like it's, it's aggressively ambitious, which really, really does speak to me. cool. And so, let's, let's talk about the, the Bessemer process for steel manufacturing, which, His age is really cool. everybody listening, go check out the pictures. so, so what is that and why was it important? So again, I think it was important because what it led to obviously was a, was a, a better steel and, steel that you could make. Again, as Mike has pointed out, you could [00:31:00] make,   the steel significantly faster than the existing processes. and what it came down to was was, was a recognition that actually to remove the impurities from the steel, you, you could blow air through the steel. That that would cause a reaction that would cause the steel to heat up. Whereas if you think about blowing edge generally, if you blow on things, it makes things colder. So this idea that you would blow air through something to make it hotter was was, was obviously a, you know, something you do in bellows and had been at. Had been thought about in terms of bellows, but actually literally blowing the air through the steel was, was not something that had been done and, and combined with that idea was also this idea that by removing all the impurities and making essentially something that was, that was pure. And then adding back dosing back impurities after you've purified. So that you had control over the composition instead of attempting to stop right at the moment when you had exactly the [00:32:00] right amount of carbon, for example, in the steel, that, that was then another powerful idea that came about. So, so the Bessemer process really. Had a profound impact, both in terms of, again, how much steel you could make in a given amount of time, because it increased the rate by this heating, and then also the control of quality by this site, this very counterintuitive idea of removing all the impurities and then adding something back in order to get to the, to the final product that you wanted. That led then to, to much stronger steels than had been capable of being produced previously and much higher quality control too. I mean, that was a key piece of that. And so actually on that point, you, you, you, you note that the, the best word process led to, three order magnitude, three orders of magnitude increase in, in steel production. And, I'm not, this is something that I, I always wonder about with the, these process innovations that both make it cheaper and [00:33:00] increase the quality, Do you have a sense of whether the order of magnitude increase was primarily due to sort of like moving down the supply demand curve, where there was just like people, you know, because the see was cheaper, they would consume more of it or was it primarily driven by, by new applications of the higher quality steel? obviously it was both, but it's interesting to think about like, which of those. Ends up being, I think the high quality in this case was a, was a very critical factor in the, in the, in the equation poly, because one of the things that opened up was is it opened up the idea of making steel rights, as opposed to what was made from iron rails and steel rails were able to bear a huge, a significant amount, more weight. And because of the fact that they could bear more weight. Now, suddenly again, you could increase the distances and volumes of which trade could happen. And so this, this was one of the reasons why, for example, you could spread [00:34:00] all the way across the United States because you could connect the resource rich West to the, population rich East. with, you know, now a much more powerful, communications network driven by, you know, the steel rails that you were able to produce. So I think that a lot of it was, was, was, you know, bound up with this idea that suddenly now this new application came, came about, that you could do much as the steam engine sort of. When you were able to move the steam engine with its fuel, you now actually could even start that whole process going. So, so again, it's this knock on effect, here, follow up on that and just make the connection for everyone that the efficiency threshold we talked about with watt is very similar to the strength threshold Matthew's talking about with steel. Right. And cross that threshold to a new material, a new strength threshold, but then it was really this driving up production, driving down costs by orders of magnitude. And yeah, we, we got better [00:35:00] higher stress, but you're not going to change the strength of something by a million times. Right. Right. So again, it's, it's kind of these two columns, the efficiency or performance column, and then the manufacturing scale column. Right. And, and going on to the next process in the, in that, in that, in our list, the calorie cracking process, again, you have that same, juxtaposition. You have the fact that by factoring the catalyst regeneration from the production of the fuel, you enabled yourself now to have a continuous process. which enabled you to increase the throughput in terms of the barrels of oil that you could, you could bring through this process, you enabled it to be increased significantly, but also this innovation was happening at a, at a time period where aviation in war was a significant factor and the quality of the fuel that you actually produced. Out of the, out of the catalytic cracking process was higher than the quality of fuel you [00:36:00] produced just by distilling off a certain fraction of the, of the crude oil. And so what you were able to do essentially was, was have a higher performance aircraft engine that was quite significant in terms of its power to, to wait. A ratio in terms of what it could deliver. And so that gave a, you know, allied aircraft, actually a significant boost in performance by having this fuel available to them. And again, provided a significant driving force to scale up the process, which again, went up by a factor of at least a thousand, over the course of, two or three years. Yeah. It's these numbers like whatever, would it be? Say these numbers it's still sort of crazy because it feels like. So many things, focus on like getting, you know, like 10% more efficiency. whereas like, like truly getting to a thousand thousand Xs is like mind boggling. So, I believe this was the case for catalog cracking, and I know that it's the case for many process innovations, [00:37:00] where, at first the, the innovation actually makes the process less efficient like wall while you sort of are figuring out how to get everything working. And then, once you do that, then it makes the whole thing skyrocket. and so I, I guess, The question is like, do you have a sense of how people sort of got past got out of these, like these local equilibria where, you know, if you went to someone you're like, Hey, I want to think less efficiently so that eventually it will become more efficient. so like how, how these, these things even got through. I'm not sure I have any great answers except perseverance. I mean, I think a lot of this stuff comes down to, to the inventor, really, you know, from their experience from their early work on, innovation recognizing in themselves and in their work, that there is the potential, even if right now it's not quite there. you know, [00:38:00] Bessemer was the same thing where, you know, you first,   licensed the patent to people and they could reproduce what he did. So the separation of full separation of impurities came later, so that people could reproduce it. So that was a reproducibility problem in the beginning, not so much a strength problem. and, yeah, I don't know. I think a lot of this just comes down to the person, saying I see it just like any of today's, you know, visionaries we talk about in the innovation space and then just keep hammering on it. Yeah, right. I mean, there's counterfactuals, right? So sorry, Matthew. I mean, it was just, we can't, we don't know the ones where the person didn't hammer on it and it never came to fruition. So it's hard to know. Right. I'm going to string together, you know, a few thousand laptop batteries and stick them on the bottom of, of a, of a car. And that is going to create a company called Tesla. Right. so, so, so the answer is, is, is it's very hard to predict, obviously a and B the T's about a lot of it is about [00:39:00] perseverance and certainly Elon Musk will we'll talk at length about the fact that he, he. He's thinks his quality is perseverance. And that it's, that that's, that's very important in this context or I'm going to have a rocket that goes up into the air and then eventually pirouettes and lands on a, on a platform floating in the middle of the seat. so these, these are, these are, you know, innovations where, where certainly the, the individual involved has plays a pretty signature. If you can, too, to the perseverance necessary to get it to that stage. But, but it's also important to recognize, right. That it's not perseverance along the existing trajectory. Right. It's stepping aside trying to establish a brand new trajectory and pushing on that. And I think sometimes those, those two are missed a lot. When you use the word perseverance people, miss that. It's it's, it's also this stepping outside of the existing trajectory. Yeah. I I'm, I'm particularly interested in whether we can like. Create Mehta innovations in sort of [00:40:00] roadmapping out what that stepping aside looks like. So instead of just, I'm saying like, okay, we're gonna go this other way. Like really sort of saying, we'd go this other way. And like, this is what it will take to get this too. Do that, that thousand X to hopefully make it easier for, these individuals too. So just convince other people that they're not crazy, when, when they don't maybe have a couple of million dollars to go off and like blow up rockets on an Island. Yeah. It's I think it's, it's, it's hard to figure out. I mean, look at, look at the bottleneck that emerged that Matthew was talking about and continuous paper manufacturing. I, you know, I think I'm pretty sure when they started, developing that process, they didn't expect that to be the next roadblock. Right. but it was, and so, so again, this comes back to the perseverance thing. I think, I think you can try and outline it stuff, but there's going to be roadblocks. And you probably should. Right? Don't just, this is not just serendipitous. I think there's a certain kind of [00:41:00] force that comes with these things that people push on the innovations. but you know, recognizing that there's going to be one new bottlenecks that emerge, but not to let those discourage you and that, you know, this, they think of them as, you know, motivating new science and engineering and, and that's how I view a lot of this stuff. And, and yeah, that's what I would say, Matthew. Yeah. And, and actually on the note of sort of unexpected bottlenecks, I think that that's another key point is that, like so much science and engineering does come out of trying to implement things and then running into bottlenecks that you can't even expect. Right. Like, instead of trying to like, imagine everything through,   cool. So just in it for the sake of time, let's talk about the, the planar process for integrated circuitry, which like arguably, has been the driving force of at least the second half of the 20th century. [00:42:00] Yeah, and I think it's often a missed, right. We talk about the integrated circuit and information technology, and miss the fact that there's this process underlying it, that has enabled us to interconnect. I mean, it's in certain settings, it's hundreds of billions of transistors now. Right. And so, in the early days, everything was discreet. just like everything else, everything was modular and discrete components. Yeah, transistors were all sold as single tracks. I would tell them that way. Yeah, exactly. No, no. Yeah. I'll, I'll take three. And, they, P people have the idea of interconnecting them. We, we were building computers. We recognized how hard it was to take these modular components with the technology of the time and integrate them. the other thing that was happening at the same time was some science. And actually, this is one of the cool things about the planar process was that there was science going on. Where there was a recognition that embedding these electronic devices all the way inside a single crystal, Silicon wafer gave you much better performance. [00:43:00] And so it was kind of the realization that you could jam these things inside the top surface of a wafer. There was also surface passivation, for those who are familiar with this process, that was key to making the devices good once they were embedded, but then once they were inside the wafer, the top surface remained flat. but they were embedded. Right. but the, the technology before that was what they used to call Mesa technology, where the transistors were kind of built on top, like mesas and Utah or Arizona, but putting them in, okay. The wafer left the top surface flat and much easier to interconnect using this development of photo lithography. And then it went from there. and, and so that, that was the key innovation, was this extreme parallelization basically. of embedding, not just a single transistor, but thousands and then millions and billions of transistors. And I want to also point out, you know, The, the, the trajectory that, that set us on as described by Moore's law, [00:44:00] this idea that we, decrease the size, increase the number at a, at a rate that's, gives us Moore's law and, and potentially that's slowing down. that's another one of the features of process innovations in many cases is that they, they eventually will run out of steam. and, I, I think we're starting to see this with the planar process, where it's had a tremendous runway. but we're getting to the point where the underlying assumptions of it may no longer not, they're not going to go away, but that we may benefit from an alternative way of building circuitry. Yeah. The, these processes they're, their effects tend to fall as you point out, tend to follow S-curves. Right. So that's, we're sort of, you see it when you start to like hit the top of that. S-curve that's when you need to think about like these fundamental process innovations. I think we've been at the top of the S curve for a long time, the processing, I mean the prediction of the [00:45:00] end of Moore's law. And I say that in quotes, it has been around for decades and, always been able to get around it. and that's impressive. It's a Testament to the scientists and engineers that work in the industry. But, you know, you can only get so small. yeah, that was an interesting thing here about biases also that, the planar process biased us towards miniaturization, right. biased us. But one of the central tenants of the planar process is perfection at every step. Once you put transistors in the solid wafer and you can't pull them out very easily, or really you can't, if they're defective, You're now in a world where every transistor up to these tens of billions, we're talking about better, be really close to. Perfect. And, so what that drives you towards it incentivizes you to, not change too much about the process and find a trajectory that allows you to still increase performance. And that trajectory was just shrinking thing. Don't change the materials too much. Don't change the [00:46:00] processes by a large amount to shrink stuff. And that was very synergistic, right? That's Moore's law and it's a tremendous success, but it did incentivize us down that pathway. And it's a bias that process innovation set up and that other innovations would set us up to go in a different direction. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, the counterfactuals are fascinating. And, and, and another thing that I think is really interesting about the, the planet process. and, and it happens in other places where,   horny, who, who came up with it happened to have had experience with printing, if I remember correctly. And so you tend to see these, these situations where like someone who has experienced in like a completely different discipline. Just so happens to be interacting with the process and say like, Oh, Hey, perhaps this thing from this other discipline can be applied in this process. and I wonder if there are that, like, do you have an incentive, like sort of better ways to get that to [00:47:00] happen? well I do, which is to create a specific, discipline around, this. So, so I, you know, if I'm going to take a very strong position here, I would say we need, we need a discipline of process studies. where we do try to lead, you know, young minds because ours have too inflexible at this point, across these different kinds of examples and allow them to see the connections between the different processes in different technological domains. And that may be, although that's not a, not a, a pedagogical, certainly that will be this opportunity. They will then connect these ideas in some other manufacturing domain, or even across. for example, service domains, I do see that there is this general principle around process innovation, manufacturing, so potentially, possibly founded on the schema that we've, that we've outlined that could enable people to see these [00:48:00] connections and start to use ideas from one process discipline in another. And so factoring could be sunny appears as we've said, in, in services. And it could appear in other manufacturing domains as well. So, so I would advocate for a borough, sort of a discipline that's built around this, these ideas so that we could lead people to make this more efficient in terms of our discovery. Wait, Mike's refraining. No. I, I, I agree. I think probably the things we're talking about or the discipline Matthew's talking about, I would liken it a lot to the role mathematics plays, right? Mathematics is its own discipline. it's separate, but all of the engineering and sciences use it. and so this is kind of similar and we were very careful, to pick out to process innovations that span the gamut. We really, we think, I think it's hard to argue that any of the eight we picked, were not really impactful. but they, they really [00:49:00] span a whole variety of, of disciplines kind of showing that it really is everywhere, but we don't recognize it as, so as pervasive as something like mathematics. and, I, I don't want to be heard as saying, well, we're as important as mathematics. mathematics has been along around a long time, but it's something akin to that. Right? I think the one place that I think it's different and would need to be adjusted somehow is that there's there isn't a ton. I mean, there are some, but like there isn't a whole lot of feedback loops between. Matt and the, all the other disciplines that math, enables. so the, so like occasionally you'll see like a mathematical problem. That's been inspired by a, a sort of more applied problem. whereas I imagine in some kind of, process innovation discipline, you really do need to have these, like these feedback [00:50:00] loops. Between, the, the discipline and the, and the sort of like the effective disciplines and sort of like setting up those, those feedback loops seems, important and harder. Yeah. Discipline is hard. Yes, absolutely. And I think with mathematics, we may have been doing it for so long that we don't see it. Right. I think, I think, you know, if you think about astronomy, for example, astronomy uses uses mathematics falling objects, is one of the inspirations for a lot of, a lot of mathematics. And so sometimes I think we know that mathematics has become the problems in mathematics have become so embedded with each other in some sense that we don't see that we need to create that, that, that feedback loop. Right. whereas, you know, geometry, for example, is another one, where, whereas in, in process, I agree with you. It's still something that I think is despite us having, you know, used [00:51:00] processes since we were, you know, since we were time in Memorial, right. We haven't really set up that as a formal means of, of analyzing the way we, the way we do things, right? I mean, that's, that's, if you like, it's the science of the way we do things. and that's what we need to, we need to think about and actually put that out. I'm going to argue against myself and, and there's, there's tons of examples of math, being inspired by, by applications where like, look at information theory, right? Like the whole reason that. We have information theories because they wanted to see how much information they could cram in a single copper wire. So, so I will actually rescind that really. Yes, I think so. And I, and I think the other thing there is, is look how impactful, what is the impactful mathematics? It is actually, I mean, in some sense, almost by default, but it is the sorts of things where now, you know, where information theory was obstructed away from the app, from the original idea. And [00:52:00] now has come back to influence a whole range of. Of of applications beyond that. And that's, that's the, the value. And I think that's the same thing with process innovation, right? If we could abstract away find the, find the, the, the core of that as a discipline that could then come back and influence a whole range of, of the way that we do things. Yeah. And, and so, so I do want to be respectful of both of your times. so, what I will do is encourage people, listening to go look, read, like, read the paper, to discover, the, the last three, fundamental process innovations. And the way I'd love to close is, sort of beyond reading this paper, like, how do you think that we could. Get beyond, reading the paper and Vicky about a new discipline. Like what, what are ways to get more of more fundamental process innovations? Well, I think we, we, at least in some, [00:53:00] some amount of our innovation sequence, need to recognize that there are things that happen. Within the Valley of death. So, you know, we talk a lot about the Valley of death as something to cross. first of all, Valley death is very manmade because we've split fundamental science and applied science and processes. An example where the splits are really bad thing. And instead of crossing it, we should look at at it as we want to go into it and hang out in it. Yeah, right. I think this is one of the issues with it. This course is it's all about something bad versus no, it's actually where we need to be. for, for certain innovations. you know, I think you think about the Nobel prize from this last week for CRISPR like that, that is squarely in my mind, that is a discovery. It's a fundamental discovery and it'll be translated that that's kind of the conventional view of things, but there we are not doing ourselves any favors by. By having the scale too [00:54:00] much on the fundamental side and that we should at least rebalance a little bit and force ourselves down into that Valley. Just hang out. Yeah. Love it. Matthew, what do you think. Yes. I think the, the stepping away from some of the things that we take for granted, like electronics manufacturing, and, and considering Mike's question around what would make this a thousand X,   better in some dimension. Is is, is really the way that we can, that we can make progress. And again, your point was very well taken, which is sometimes when we get better at something, we're going to get worse at something else. Right. And, and it could be that we're going to have to accept that we will not have circuitry that behaves as, as, as well, or as fast as it did previously. But now we may have gained in some other dimension. So again, it's about taking the blinkers off and not saying, okay, we have to have these particular metrics [00:55:00] always be improving, but think about how through processes. We may take some other metric and now make that significant it'd be better than it was previously. And then. Hang out and see what happens as Mike said, because by doing so, we may in fact then lead ourselves to improve other areas as well. And that, that could then lead to the kinds of scalings we saw with making steel, making paper or making energy. And so that's what we really need to think about. Here are my key takeaways. Sometimes you need to go down, go back up. The interplay between processes and paradigms is absolutely fascinating. And we don't talk about it enough. And finally, we need to spend more time hanging out in the Valley of death. [00:56:00]

Meet Tracy Brinkmann From hitting the rock bottom of drugs, divorce, bankruptcy and even the death of an 18 month old daughter to running the planning and marketing of some of corporate America's finest companies to his own marketing company. Tracy helps small business owners be seen. And now his podcast is focused on Driven Dark Horse Enterprises. Tracy Brinkman is also a business and success coach that realizes life isn't fair and participation awards do not feed your family or your drive to succeed. This Driven Dark Horse Entrepreneur is looking to share all that he has learned and is still learning about starting, restarting, kick starting and stepping up your entrepreneurial game all while not ignoring that amazing tool between your ears! What is the importance of reputation on and offline? I think reputation sometimes flies under the radar anymore. If you think even way back to the early days, when I say early days, I mean, pre internet, word of mouth was a big marketing tactic. And when someone told you about a great business or just somebody that they met, you took their word for it. So now if you take that into the new era of being online, on your phone or on your computer you're doing that same thing, but you're doing it with people you don't even know, as you're looking at a business, you're looking up online and say, wow, this looks like what I need as you're shopping, and then you kind of cruise through their reputation. And if they got the five-star rating, you're like, hey, right on. And I think what's really unique about this is you're taking the word of people you don't even know. So I think it's really huge to pay attention to your reputation on and offline. Why should we start stop trading time for money? I think this is probably one of the biggest issues I see a lot of starting entrepreneurs get involved in, especially in the coaching arena that I tend to service is like, they trade those hours for dollars. And I think the limitation on that is that we only have 24 hours a day, right? So if you say, you know what, I'm gonna charge $150 an hour, you can only make that much, 150 times 24. That's it, that's your cap, and you'll burn yourself out trying to maximize that cap. Or if you can start trading value for money now you can a raise your quote unquote, hourly rate, and then be worth less and make more. Why should I build a team or have a mentor or a coach? I'm in the coaching arena. So I'm kind of biased there. But I think one of the greatest things I ever did coming up through my career even when I was in corporate America was having a mentor and having a coach to teach me the tips, the tricks and the potholes of the trade to speed up my learning curve, and avoid some of the potholes that you know could definitely sink a career. If you can, like they say ride on the shoulders of giants, well, then you are gonna ride a lot faster and get to your destination a lot quicker. So that's a big thing about coaches and mentors. Can you share with our listeners, one of your most successful or favorite networking experiences that you've had? I was attending the Direct Tech Conference in Las Vegas. And Direct Tech is a piece of software that a number of retailers use. They're all just like any other conference, there's the big sessions and then there's all the breakout sessions and I always have made it a point to break away from my clinic, my team that I would be attending together as there was like three or four of us and go sit amongst folks that I have no idea who they are. Right? And that takes a little bit of courage, right? You got to be willing to put yourself out there totally. You learn so much in the process. And of course, you meet new folks. And you learn new tips and tricks from how they're using, in my scenario, how they're using the software versus how we were using it internally. And you're like, oh, I'm gonna go back I'm gonna go try that. So I think trying that for the first time I had done it like a little bit in the past, but this time I went into it saying, okay, every session I'm going to sit with someone I don't know. And I haven't met yet and really broaden my horizons about the retail world the software that's been being chatted about, and just grow my experiences with the other folks and I have probably about half a dozen of those folks I still chat with on a regular basis today, even though I've been away from that software for three years now. How do you best nurture your network or near community? I periodically just randomly reach out to folks like if I haven't heard from someone say like, like a Tony, I just reach out and say, hey, how are things going in Tony's world? And just kind of really restart that dialogue. Sometimes folks will just say, oh, it's going great. And we'll leave it at that. Again, it's just randomly reaching out. I think one of the things is pretty good to do in the new social media world if you're following them is if you see something that they post that really resonates with you don't just give it a like, drop in a comment. Engage with them. That's the whole purpose of social media, we miss it, go ahead and engage with it. I think platforms, like LinkedIn are probably a little bit more business oriented than a Facebook or an Instagram. But you know, a lot of folks, especially in the entrepreneurial world, are using all those platforms to share their message and if you find a piece of content, again, that really resonates, engage with it, or even share it and add your comment on top of the hey, my buddy Tony, he shared this man, I totally resonate with it. Here, I want to share it with my fam as well. What advice would you offer the business professional who's looking to grow their network? I think it's almost too easy to say, get out there and engage with folks. You know, find it. Of course, it's a little bit more challenging right now as we're recording this given the whole COVID-19 environment but certainly a lot of the meetup opportunities have gone online, and some of them are starting to go live again. So certainly put yourself out there. Here's the thing about putting yourself out there. There's a number of folks that will say it takes courage, which is fact. But here's the real trick. This is called the mindset shift for you, is you don't have to be brave for the whole hour or half hour, however long the meeting is, you only got to be brave for three seconds. Three seconds that follow when someone looks at you and says, hi, who are you? Or hi, my name is Tracy and you are? Now, muster up that courage for three seconds, respond, right? Ask them a question about what they do. Sit back and listen, right. And while you're listening, now you can get those butterflies to fly in formation because you know, that question is coming. So what do you do? Why are you here? Come a little bit prepared. Don't make it sound like you have this canned speech together. But have a couple of answers to what would be canned questions. What do you do? What brings you here? Those kinds of standard questions, be ready to answer them. If you could go back to your 20-year-old self? What would you tell yourself to do more of less of or differently with regards to your professional career? I think if I went back and talked to my 20-year-old self, I would say stay away from drugs. I had a dark time and I was very successful. I came out of the military and started a custom database programming business right at the early stages of the.com boom and got successful, and I went down a dark path. So first thing I'd be telling myself is stay away from the things that are going to derail you. And in my case, it was drugs and alcohol. Anything that's going to derail you, that could be people as well. I think the other piece of advice I would have given my 20-year-old self would be to ask trusted folks what my number one skill is. Because it was probably another decade and a half before someone said, well, you know, you do this so well. We've all heard the six degrees of separation? Who would be the one person that you'd love to connect with? And do you think you could do it within the sixth degree? Yes, I am one degree away from the person. I really want to connect with and that would be Brian Tracy. Brian Tracy has been one of those guys that I have followed his career, gosh, probably since the late 80s, early 90s. And he's just been one of those icons of not just personal development, but certainly a businessman as well. I mean, the things he's built and things he's done across the course of his career, and I was lucky enough to interview a gentleman on my show who's a friend of Brian Tracy's I come to find out. So now I am I am one degree away from the guy I would love to connect with if not to get on my show to interview like this but certainly to sit down and just have a chat with and pick their brains for 60 minutes or so and walk away with this wealth of information. Do you have any final words of advice to offer our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network? I'm just going to take a moment to repeat myself but put yourself out there. And then as you're putting yourself self out there, follow that with just being who you are. Right? Don't try to put on some sort of mask for somebody. They're going to accept you for who you are. And I think if you put that mask on, it will slip at some point and they're going to be questioning your authenticity. Whereas if you're yourself all the time, they may look at you a little tip headed at first like, okay, what's this guy going on? Right? He's got the long hair and the beard. But that's cool. All right. I'm jiving with what he's saying. And pretty soon they're not seeing the mask anymore. They're just seeing you. So put yourself out there and just be you. Because you're not trying to capture everybody, right? There's enough business for everybody. You want to capture the people that are going to resonate with you that you want to work with. And that make you happy to service and that are happy to get service from you. How to connect with Tracy Website: http://darkhorseschooling.com/ Podcast: http://darkhorseschooling.com/podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/744876339606320/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracybrinkmann/

In this episode of Functional Medicine Research, I interview Dr. Liz Lipski in a discussion about how to choose the best therapeutic diet for gut health.  We discussed the low FODMAP diet, comprehensive elimination diet, Simple Carbohydrate Diet (SCD), GAPS diet, Paleo diet, histamine, pancreatic elastase and low HCL levels.  Liz discussed why we would choose each one of these diets for an individual and what each diet entails.  I use all of these diets in my practice so it was nice to have an overview of each diet from one of the top experts in gut health. Dr. Hedberg: Well, welcome everyone to "Functional Medicine Research." I'm Dr. Hedberg. And I'm really looking forward to my conversation today with Dr. Liz Lipski. And Dr. Lipski, she's a Professor and the Director of Academic Development for the Nutrition Programs at Maryland University of Integrative Health. She has a PhD in Clinical Nutrition, two board certifications in nutrition, one in functional medicine, and she's a fellow of the American College of Nutrition. She's the author of the fantastic book "Digestive Wellness" which I highly recommend. And she's the founder of the Innovative Healing Academy. She's on faculty for the Institute for Functional Medicine and the Metabolic Medicine Fellowship in Integrative Medicine. She's been a pioneer in the field of functional nutrition for four decades. Liz, welcome to the program. Dr. Lipski: Thanks, Nick. It's so nice to be with you today. Dr. Hedberg: Yeah. This is gonna be a great talk. We're gonna be talking about how to choose the best diet for gut therapy. And why don't we start by just a general question about, you know, what is the best overall diet for GI health? Do we really know, based on the research at this point, what the vast majority of the population should follow? Do we have any insights on that? Dr. Lipski: I do. I think a lot about what's different between people who are healthy and wanna work on tweaking their health or preventive health, and then people who are already in a deep hole where already their health is compromised. And hands down, when we look at research, it looks like a whole foods diet based on a Mediterranean-type diet is the very best diet. When we look at it, cancer rates go down and diabetes rates go down and cardiovascular disease rates go down, but we also have some research on GI. And one of the main issues in the way that we're eating... And I know you see this in your practice, Nick. What we see is, when you ask people, "Well, how do you eat?" And what do they tell us? They say, "I eat pretty well." Right? Don't you hear that all the time? Dr. Hedberg: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Lipski: And then you look at somebody's food diary and maybe they do, but usually they don't. And so for me, steering somebody at first to a whole foods diet is the most important thing because what we know is that according to a recent study based on kind of looking at every food that has a barcode and it represented, you know, any food company that had more than, you know, a tiny share of the market, they looked and they said 70.9% of the foods that we Americans are eating are ultra-processed. Ultra-processed. And so we now have other studies that say, "Well, if you have more than two servings a day of these ultra-processed foods, we have a 62... For each 10% increase in ultra-processed foods, we increase our risk of cardiovascular disease by 12%, and heart disease by 13%, and strokes by 11%." So, we also have some research on cancers as well. And so, you know, it's not that we can have a treat. It was just my son's birthday and I made a cake and we all had cake. It's not like, you can't have some treats, but at least I made the cake. I knew every ingredient that was in it. And most of us are just eating, the majority of our food is fast, easy, cheap, and filled with all kinds of additives and highly-processed foods. And so the first step is moving towards a whole foods d...

This week's episode is about dealing with challenges with employees. When should you ignore the problem, or instead fire them, or finally look to train them to be better employees. This may take a little while as they are still learning new skills and understanding how difficult these problems really can become. And if I ever need any help this show will definitely give it. Show Highlights (Beta) We're back with another episode of Marketing Management and Money I'm your host. Ryan Owens I'm your host. Ryan Mary. Thank you so much for joining us. Today. We are going to dive into an interesting topic of whether you should fire everybody on your staff. OR TRAIN THEM OR IGNORE THEM So I I. Love The way that you kicked off this topic, right? Because it really is you know an. All right. To. Understand what's going on here. You got to understand that we're looking at it from the perspective of what you do when someone on your staff. Is Not performing. So. there. There are essentially only three things you can do. You can ignore the problem and pretend that it doesn't exist. You can work with them, which we like to just call train because it can be where you to sit down and kind of do a little bit of Hand Holding or coaching or whatever, or it can be that. You know you're gonNA bring in some really expensive consultant to rearrange your whole organization because apparently nobody knows what they're doing. Or? Just, fire him he'd be like Gonzo. Odd. and. The funny thing is these are your three options like everyone. When when I talked to businesses and they're having problems with their employees. Like what do I do I you know I I've got this and I got this and it's like they want to make the problem bigger than it is but in reality and like well. You either want the person on your team or you don't want the person on your team. Yeah. If you want the person on your team, you gotTa do something about it now. Unfortunately, too many entrepreneurs with the ignore them route. And let's Let's start there because that's the worst option unless just get it out of the way and. When I say let's start there. It's not because I'm not giving any recommendations. I'm not gonNA teach you how to do a good job of ignoring your employees or ignoring problems that are persisting right this is saying, okay these are the red flags to look out for. Are you doing? Are you ignoring stuff that you need to take care of? Yeah and I'm glad that you presented it that way because ultimately it's like Duh don't do it. Right? Don't ignore problems in your business.  I'm like Oh guess what this town is not cursed, right? No, you move to the one town in the entire country that has no good employees. Every other town has amazing employs like no, it's it's not that they're good people and bad people is that there are good company cultures that attract good people and then there are millennials. Just kidding I'm. Technically a millennial so I can make those jobs. I'm just kidding. But you know if you're just ignoring these problems, they're not going to go away and you're going to choke out of your good employees and it just gets worse than it gets worse than he gets worse and so it's like, yeah, you've got to you got to address the problems. And it's tough. It's hard. You know. Emotions oftentimes get involved. I can't tell you how many times. I have seen. Big Tough dudes cry really Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Lauren Marsicano of Networking Maverick. We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we've had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:Building and protecting your Queendoms!!!Ways to completely thrive in a male-dominated field.Conquering self-doubt in the early days of your side hustle.Embracing your many different personal facets.GET MORE: Website | Instagram FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram Get the Side Hustle Starter Kit Episode Transcript Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle GAO podcast. Today's guest is from a group we haven't talked about yet, which is the create and cultivate insiders group. If you've ever been to a create and cultivate conference, you can join, create and cultivate insiders, which is basically, um, a great small group of those of us that super love, create and cultivate and want to have deeper relationships.There's monthly mentoring and all of that good stuff, but that's not what we're here to talk about. I am so excited to introduce Lauren Marsicano to you. Lauren hank you so much for being here, and please tell us a little bit about your journey. Lauren Marsicano: [00:01:02] Well, thank you so much for having me here, Dannie. I'm so excited.Create and Cultivate is an amazing organization. I love the online group, which is how we connected and and probably like you, and like many people listening. I'm just a part of so many different women's empowerment groups online. So I love the connections that we build. Which is fantastic. So my name is Laura Marsicano.I'm an attorney. I own my own law firm, but I also have a side hustle. So the side hustle actually is a networking Maverick LLC, which is a women's empowerment group. It's online. It also now has live events in Miami and South Florida. So if you're in the area, you know, you feel free to come out to any of my monthly networking events and workshops.But it all started because of my main business. So for, I don't know, since I was 14 years old, I wanted to be a lawyer. Right after I wasn't going to be an actress or a model, I decided to get, you know, lawyer sounds really good I love debating. And so my whole path, uh, until about two years ago was just being a lawyer.I did, you know, the undergrad, international business and finance. I went to university of Miami school of law. I studied law at Oxford university under a fellowship and became a lawyer. So, yay. But I was not expecting to feel unfulfilled. Like I became a lawyer pass the bar exam, and about a year and a half into it, got my quote unquote dream job.You know, the six figure lawyer working for multinational corporations, billion dollar corporations, but I still wasn't happy and I had two friends of mine that I sat down with her. They're like, Lauren, we know exactly what the problem is. You've got to start your own business. Right? And I think that happens to a lot of people when I was like, no, no, no, no.My own business, I'm not 60 years old. You know, like that's when you start a law business. But I launched my law firm and we ended up making six figures in our first year from, and I attributed it all to networking and connections, but I love being a lawyer and I love what I can do with my lawyer hat on.But there's so much I'm restricted from doing as Lauren Marsicano Esquire, right? That Esquire puts so many restrictions on how much I can help the business owners that come to me. Cause that's who I serve. I'm a business attorney. And so I was at these networking events and people were like, how did you make money your first year?How you know, most law firms fail, not, you know, not only do they not make six figures, they're gone. And people go back to their original. A hustle, whatever, you know, whatever law firm they were in, and it was a lot of women. It was a lot of women at these events telling me this, and those are the people I like serving the most anyway as a lawyer.And so I was like, you know what? I need to start another business. And it can just be online. It started just online. It's, it was YouTube videos and it was Instagram posts and it was live streams and all these different things. Just giving. Women specifically. So I always, my tagline is, no matter whether I'm with the law firm or with networking Maverick, I'm helping female entrepreneurs build and protect their queendoms.So I call it queendoms, right? Cause we all have our queendoms. Right. Um, and so networking Maverick became my side hustle because of my main hustle. And so that's where, that's where I'm at now, helping women on both sides. Now it's offline and I do live events monthly. I partnered with a group called startup sisters USA that's, um, you know, in Tampa, Atlanta, I think they've launched a couple of other cities now.And I'm the Miami president. And so networking Maverick partners with startup sister to bring these, uh, live events and bring women together locally, which I love. And that's my, that's my background. Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:04:40] No, I've loved that so much. I can relate. I first told my grandma that I was going to be a lawyer when I was three. Caitlyn also is super into politics. Caitlyn Allen: [00:04:53] I planned on being a lawyer too. Lauren Marsicano: [00:04:55] Oh, Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:04:57] Neither of us went to law school, but we both, we both have a friend. Our friend Sam. Uh, went to law school, graduated with a law degrree, became an attorney. Um, but she knew after her first year of law school that entrepreneurship was the path for her.Um, so Sam's dream one day is to start a scholarship. That's the like, Oh fuck scholarship. That would pay, like if you decide after your first, after like one owl that you don't want to be a lawyer anymore, this scholarship would like pay off your one hour loans. That's free.Yeah. Um, so all of, so all of those to say, I love your story. For those in the audience that are listening, I mean, this girl's a badass, top 40 under 40 lawyer in the nation, Oxford, who doesn't dream of studying abroad at Oxford, all the things, um. So I wanna I wanna dive in and I'm going to ask the obvious question first because I think it's also a good question to ask.Law is so male dominated. How did you carve out your niche in that space? I know classic question. I want to know. Lauren Marsicano: [00:06:13] No, but is it is, and especially so, not only am I an attorney, my, for my business, when I'm the business attorney side, I'm litigation. So litigation is even more male dominated, right? Like women come in and we're called the court reporter.Right? So that's, that was my first experience actually for, I'm this huge, I don't wanna get too technical. It's like, it's there, like motions for summary judgment or big motions they can prevent you from going to trial. And it was my first year as an attorney and I walk in, I, I've, you know, prepared so much and the opposing counsel was probably like, I dunno.I don't want to make them too old, but let's say he's like 70, let's say 70 year old white male. And uh, he, he called me a court reporter first and I was like, Oh no, I'm here. I'm your opposing counsel. And he like, he didn't slap my full butt, but you know when they do like that top of the butts lap where they like, Pat, you like the lower back.But it's a little too little while. So I've got a big badonkadonk. So I mean, it's not all of his fault. He passed my lower back and it's like, well, good luck. Little lady. Like, and I crushed him and it felt good. Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:21] But also that little lady, the fucking Southern likeLauren Marsicano: [00:07:29] which actually you don't find a lot in Miami because we're very like, you know, European, Hispanic, whatever. But this guy was like an old white Southern attorney from, I think Bible belt, Florida or something. I think he drove down maybe for the hearing. I've never seen him again. I'd never seen him on another case, but I crushed them and it felt amazing.And even at the end you was like. Oh, good. Good job. Little lady. And I was like, you can't even give me that. Like you can't, even after I crush you just give me some kind of respect and like just a handshake, like a normal hand shake. This was all before the me too movement, by the way. Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:04] I can't, I can't with that type of, cause I've experienced that when I was working on. Um, the different political campaigns that I've worked on. So in high school I were, I ran two counties in a big campaign here. Uh, I'm not going to say which side I was on, but it was a huge, it was a huge election. Um, I couldn't even vote. Uh, I was a female and I was underage and I was still running these counties and there were old white dudes that were like, Oh, well, good job, good job, honey.And I'm like. I just kicked ass, like my county's went the color I needed it to. Oh, I just can't. But I want to hear a little bit more about like the law firm side of things. So what specifically, you said you work with business law. Do you do, um, like business law for small businesses like Dannie or I, or do you work with the bigger. Bigger businesses and do more like the litigation. Lauren Marsicano: [00:09:03] So I do, I do everything. So I do all of that. I now, the thing is, since I own my own law firm, I can choose my clients. So that's like the biggest difference. I only work with people and on cases that I really like, which makes. Oh, so much of a difference day to day.Um, but yeah, no, I work with, I do the, you know, the high end corporate litigation. Like I have a couple of really big litigation cases right now for some bigger multinational companies, especially in the, in the shipping industry. And then, uh, my love though, those are, I, I love those clients. I love those cases cause they're very, very interesting, you know, from an intellectual perspective to, uh, but I love working with a small, medium size business owners.That's like my heart because I actually get to like. Talk with you and see you. And like, we feel like we're part of each other's businesses at the end of the day where we're helping each other grow. Um, but yeah, so I do it all, and that's why actually I started. It's not really a third business. It's kind of part of my second business networking Maverick, which are the, are the eCourses.So I provided more cost effective ways of you being able to do your contracts and learn how to form a business and register it online. Um, I did that because for small business owners spending 2 to 3000 for just registration or just a contract is not as effective. So then I put together three contracts and formation, a step by step guides for $2,000 for all four.Like the templates, the contracts, the registration, everything. So it's more affordable. Um, but so yeah, I'm always trying to figure out ways to add more value for small business owners. Cause I think you're the most underserved or you go to, I don't want to say the names of the websites, but you go to websites that I would say I litigate on.Yeah, I saw you. I saw you word it. I'm not, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to know it says it, but yeah, so there are others and I feel like they do a disservice sometimes. You know, they're great for me to litigate on, but unfortunately that means you, you end up spending more money in the long run rather than just going to. An attorney up front or something. Caitlyn Allen: [00:10:59] Yeah. One of my, one of my clients is actually a trademark attorney. And so I, yeah, I know quite a lot about, um, thou shalt not be named. Lauren Marsicano: [00:11:09] Yes, exactly. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't know how to get to say, but yes. And that's another thing is that people see it cause you know, obviously there's the costs that come with it that I can't, I can't.Do, I can't do anything about the cost. And then I tried to keep my fees as reasonable as possible. But if you go on an hourly perspective, I'm very affordable, but still people see it and like per, per trademark, cause I do that, I do that as well. And it's like, yeah, but that's like the minimum I could possibly do it for and still like not be losing a ton of money.Do you know what I mean? Like I still need to get paid for my experience and what I'm doing as an attorney, but I do try to provide. It as much education. So that's why the networking Maverick, I always have to be careful because it's educational and I always have to put those disclaimers. This is not legal advice.It's for educational purposes. Always consult an attorney, hashtag of lawyers, all that fun stuff. But yeah, and that'll, so that became my niche. Serving women became my niche in a male dominated field. So like even my big businesses, my contacts within those groups are women. It's high powered women CEOs that I've connected with.And then they end up. You know, bringing me in as their corporate counsel. So I serve as outside corporate counsel for a lot of these businesses and I'm much more affordable than the big guys down the road, you know, and I'm also more personable and I think they like working with another female because you know, even the other firms can be a little old fashioned, old fashioned, let's say, when dealing with high powered female CEOs.So, uh, that, that became my niche and that's what I focused on. And it just more like whenever you're in any male dominated field. I think it's just having confidence in what you can do. Always being the most prepared person in the room. Always, I'm always focused on killing them with kindness, you know?Except for if I'm in a, in the courtroom, you know, then I'm very serious. But, you know, just in terms of networking or dealing with people, I always try to be, we call it PMA in my family. I don't know if you, can you see it? Is it on the board? Oh, yeah. It's on the board behind me. We call it positive mental attitude and PMA.So my family is always like PMA, PMA. So that's, you just got to have the mindset to go into it. And if you're the most prepared person in the room, you're probably going to be the most confident person in the room. That doesn't mean to be arrogant, but that's, that's kind of how you do with it. And you just be yourself.And I've learned to be the singing lawyer. So I go to events, I speak a lot public, and I, and I'll like, be like, Whoa. Like I don't, I'm not a good singer. But that's just my personality. And I've learned over time that the clients that I'll work best with, like that personality. And that's, and that's me. So, Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:39] so what have you found after starting your business that you've learned about yourself?Lauren Marsicano: [00:13:45] Oh so much. I think I always knew, I guess that I was resilient, but I guess I never knew how resilient I would have to be in that I actually am, because, you know, I think it's actually the hardest part of launching a business, in my opinion. Well, I mean. I guess for anybody it might be gaining the knowledge that you actually need to launch.That might be the hardest for, for most people. Uh, but I think the second is just starting getting, getting over the fear to just start. Right. And I thought that was going to be the hardest thing, but I was wrong. I was very wrong. Because when you're a small business, you're going to have some lean months.Right? Or you're going to have like really bad rejections or conversations, you know, and networking that don't go as well. And you start getting that self doubt that like kind of just creeps in. That's like, Hey, maybe maybe you didn't do the right thing. Maybe you didn't make the right decision. And then he's gotta be like, Nope.Shut it down. You know, like, no, you're, you're doing good. Keep going forward. But that's definitely something that I, I knew I was resilient because I had to overcome a lot when I was younger and I moved, I moved around the country 15 times, so I was always the new girl and I was always the curvy new girl.Right. Cause I've been, I mean, I've been a curvy queen. Since I was, uh, like nine or 10 years old, like I developed really, really young. And so I had to overcome a lot of that and get through like some depression when I was younger. So I knew I was resilient. But entrepreneurship is all, Oh, new level of resiliency.Honestly. I think that's the most I learned. Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:24] So I'm curious. Um, all three of us recording this podcast are curvy yes, yes queeen. And in social experiences you have those awkward moments where like just last night I was at a restaurant in an airport. Tables are too fucking tight. My ass is going to end up on your table. What I'm going through to get to my seat. Sorry bout it. Lauren Marsicano: [00:15:53] All the time. All the time. Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:56] And there's a lot of that that happens in the corporate world too, that we don't talk about. And I want to ask your opinion on this because especially in law, there's this expectation of suits and for women it's like high heels, skirts, tits out kind of perception. Yeah. What's it, what's it like being curvy in that space and having things that jiggle. Lauren Marsicano: [00:16:28] Oh, more than jiggle is like an earthquake over here when I know I know it.So I will say, because I had to deal with it so much growing up, I think that I'm much more confident now. I think that if I hadn't gone through it, like if I, if I became curvy. Like if I had been skinny my whole life and then became curvy now, I think it would be a lot harder to deal with. Then I was made fun of.I was called chubby girl. I was called, you know, I think someone called me marshmallow cause our school uniforms were white. Like there was so much, so much stuff. And I was also a white girl in Miami. So I mean it was like so many layers of that. But then I think the best decision my mom did when I was younger was put me in modeling school like those, you know, like Barbara's on.I was in Barbara's on. And it really gave me a lot of confidence. Cause I, before that I was the, I forget what the movie was where I think it's Christine Ricci. Maybe she like tapes her boobs down and like wears hoodies and wants to look like a guy. Cause I played all sports. I was an all sport athlete.So I was like so, so tomboy and then. Uh, going into modeling. So I came out, I was always wearing makeup. I was always wearing my school colors and pigtails. So that made me confident as a lawyer. The thing that's different, so Miami is much more relaxed, even in the courtroom setting. Miami is more relaxed, but it's when I go to like West Palm even, or Tampa, cause I practiced in Tampa and Jacksonville and Orlando.Those places are much, much, much more conservative. And I think it's still a rule. I have to double check. I think it's still a rule. If you go in front of the Supreme court, that you as women, you have to wear stockings in a skirt suit. I think, I don't want to swear by that, but that in law school, I remember that was the rule.I don't know if that's changed. Um, but it's definitely finding the right looks for you. And what's funny is I just had an event on this. It was called style for success. And it was all about, no matter what size you are, cause you know skinny people actually have a really, and I know it's like, Oh my God, it's skinny people.Eye problem. They do skinny, like really, really, I'm talking really skinny. People also have like clothing problems, but as a curvy girl, it's all like the materials you use if you actually get the right line. So the women that I think have the most problems are the ones that haven't invested in actually.Finding a stylist or finding a style that works for them, or a clothing line. Like I love white house, black market. I love Ann Taylor. I think that they make sizes that go up to, I think they go up to like 16 or 18 online and the material is like super, super good. You know, it's got that stretch, you know, the little bit of stretch that I need, you know, like, because my waist is a little bit smaller on my bottom is like, ba boom.It is like people pay for that and it is. This is like it when you walk into a courtroom, you know that I'm there, but it's definitely, it's a lot of self confidence because you're going up against guys that do not get judged by how they look. But when you're in front of a jury, we actually have to take a course or I voluntarily took a course on jury selection and you get to hear what they think and a lot of what they think about women is what they look like.Whether they're a witness or, or a, um, a lawyer. And I just got married actually, uh, this past week. And before that though, if I had, if I was in front of a jury, I'd wear a wedding ring because females that didn't wear wedding rings weren't trustworthy. Right? So like, if you're a female, you had, there are certain things you have to do for your client to make sure you're presenting yourself the best to the jury.And the judge. So you got to know your judge, you've got to know people, and it is a little nerve wracking because I, I, there is still that psychological bias against curvy women where people think we're, we're like, I forget what the wording is, but basically that we're like, slobs. That we just don't care and we're sloppy where.And so number one, I am a mess at home. I'm not going to lie. I'm very messy because I'm so organized and so many other asks but I'm not a slob. Like I'm not dirty. But though those that does go through the back of my head where I'm like, I need to dress to make sure that the cuts look. Uh, tailored that even though I'm curvy, I look very put together that, uh, you know, I, I thought about my appearance, like I put my hair in a bun or I put it back low and a bun.Like I don't like, I have long hair cause I paid for it. Uh, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't leave it down like that. I went Ariana Grande a in a courtroom. Do you know what I mean? So there's just things that you got to know how to present yourself. And I like to say, um. When I do a lot of speaking and with my clients, women are like diamonds where we have many facets, right?Because a lot of what I get from business clients when they're networking is, Oh, but I don't want to dress like that cause that's not me. Or when I go to this, I don't want to dress like that. Cause that's not me. Okay. But is it, is it maybe this part of you. Maybe this is how you need to present yourself in this way.Like when I go to court, I'm going to have my hair in a bun. I'm going to be wearing my glasses. I'm going to be wearing a more conservative color and a more conservative suit, maybe even a skirt suit with stockings if that's what it needs, like conservative heels. When I go to my speaking engagement. I have a gold glitter jacket with wings that says networking Maverick, like I'm just a completely different look, but all of them are still me.They're just different facets of the diamond and you have to know when to let each facet shine in different situations. Caitlyn Allen: [00:21:43] I think what's sad though in this situation is that we literally have to think about who our crowd is to dress too. And that's not something most dudes even think about or comprehend.Lauren Marsicano: [00:21:57] Not even a little bit. Not even. And actually, actually they are psychologically, uh, Oh my God, I forgot what this study was that they did on a jury. But, um, you remember to kill a Mockingbird or any on any of that kind of stuff where he was more personable because his shirt was a little uncapped and his suit wasn't super tailored.Right. But the, and so that's, those are perceptions, guys don't even, they get. Rewarded for not necessarily taking so much time for their appearance. Cause then if they take too much time, there are car salesman and they're sleazy maybe or something, but so they don't have to worry about it all. They just show up as them and they probably wear the same suit every single day.Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. But it is just stuff that we think, I think as women, we already think about. A billion things a day anyway, more than men in a lot of cases. So, uh, until the day comes where we're all just wearing potato sacks and that's it. Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:22:54] I think this is so spot on though. I feel this all the time when I'm thinking through what I'm wearing to different client meetings or how I dress at work.I mean, I have the good fortune of working at Google, which means I wear a lot of leggings to work. Like, how does that read? How does that come across? Even even in situations where it shouldn't matter when there are guys that literally would just wear their bathrobe.Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:20] Nooooo.Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:23:22] Even my leggings can come across as like unkempt, even though the bathrobe is. Quirky Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:33] the opposite side where like I'm in, I don't, I don't know if you guys can see, they're like dress pants.Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:43] Yeah. Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:43] But people are like, well, why are you so dressed up? I'm like, Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:47] yes. You can't win. Sometimes you just can't win sometimes. No, for sure. Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:50] If I, yeah, if I wore leggings, I would be a slob. If I wore jeans, I'm not dressed to the occasion and now if I wear this, I'm too dressed up. So when will I ever win?Lauren Marsicano: [00:24:01] Well, so you're, you're never going to be able to be everything to everyone all the time. Right? Like that's the biggest thing I learned. You just gotta be you in what you think you should present in that situation. And then everyone can think what they think and you're going to have haters always. And you're gonna have people that love you always.And, and that's what you've got to focus on just being you. Because if you're trying to be someone else, then you're going to feel worse when people don't like you or whatever, you know, whatever happens. But if you're just being you and confident, like I think you look great. That color is amazing on you that I, I guess it's like a purple-y violet maroon is what it looks like from here.It looks great on your skin tone. And I think, I personally think everyone needs a stylist. I have a stylist now and a branding specialist. For my business and everything that really helps with like my color. I'm not wearing it now because this wasn't, I'm not wearing my colors anything now. But, um, I think that that really helps.And I've always decided that I'm always going to be. The most extra in any room really, except for maybe the courtroom. So I always show up as too much and that's kind of my thing. Like, Oh my God, Lauren. So extra. Yes, I am queen cause we're Queens. Do Queens just like sit in the corner? No, we stand out.This is our queendom. Everyone come into our queendom. You got a queen. I'm great. We can all rise up. So I've just, you're never going to satisfy all the haters. So just be yourself and be extra.Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:25:23] I think you freaking nailed it. I think this is so good. So before we wrap up, I want to ask, you've talked a lot about things that we can do to take up and hold the space that we're meant to take. And a lot of that has been an appearance focused. Is there any way in what you learned through presence and in the courtroom that we can also do that with our voices?Lauren Marsicano: [00:25:45] Definitely, definitely. So I actually think, uh, I always, I think my three pillars of networking Maverick are really like mindset, motivation, education, right? If you don't have the right mindset, you're not going to come across in any way, whether it's appearance, voice, anything. Uh, but then if you are the most prepared person in the room, I think preparation mindset.We'll give you so much confidence going in, and if you carry yourself with confidence, you project yourself with confidence. I think that comes across. I think when you talk with people, it's very important. Something I had to learn was to talk slower. A little bit. Cause sometimes when you talk too fast it can come across as like, Oh well she's a lot, she's too much and I'm already loud.So I had to pick one or the other. So I chose to really try to slow down and think about what I'm saying and what the other person is saying. I think that makes a very, very big difference. Being a listener, being someone that takes the time to really. Look at the person who you're talking to, whether it's an event or in the courtroom.I didn't get matters. I think the best thing I did was do improv. I don't know if you guys have ever taken an improv class, but if you have a local, like we have one down the street. My friend is doing it because she's going to be an MC at an upcoming event, and I was like, yes, improv. The best thing, the best decision you can make because it's going to give you, sorry.The confidence. To change on the fly, to deal with anything that comes up in conversation. Anything that could come up in court with opposing counsel. It gets you to think on your feet and so you're already so prepared that you should be able to throw in anything you need. The improv gives you the confidence to be able to pivot in all those directions.So I think that that is something practicing in the mirror, I think helps too. If you can afford an improv class, I think just practicing with a mirror or practicing, like my husband and I practice interview sometimes, or we'll practice, like if I'm going to speak in an event, I'll be like, how does this come across?How does this joke come across? Because I don't want it, you know, the translation from my mouth to your ears might not come across as I want it. So practicing in the mirror, practicing with people, improv, all those are ways to work on your . I would, I would call it all your presentation, your presentation of yourself, whether it's how you dress or how you speak.Caitlyn Allen: [00:28:00] So I have one, one last question about speaking. How do you, and how do you suggest if woman is A woman is speaking and a man starts to speak over her, How do you take charge of that situation Or do you have any suggestions for taking charge of a situation like that?Lauren Marsicano: [00:28:18] Ooh that's a good one So my typical lawyer answer it depends It always depends Uh so I would say how I would address that at like a networking event is very different than how I would address it in like a mediation or in court Because in court there's actually a rule where they're not supposed to talk over you Um so what I would do is if they start talking what I have learned to do is pause I let them finish and then I don't address them I just said judge and I say your honor it is my time to be speaking We will listen to opposing counsel when it's their turn Can you please make sure that they abide by the decorum of the courtroom And that usually gets them to Right Because then they feel like an idiot Like I let them finish You finish you want Oh you okay You think you yo go Now I'm going to make you look like an idiot Thank you Like you're not abiding by the rules How I would do it in the mediation So it's all about in my opinion you don't want to come up like a BITC H sometimes right You don't want to come off like Oh man she's so pressive Sometimes I do want to come off like that and if I do want to come off like that what I will do is I will again let them finish and then I will say sir I have let you say your piece now I would let you Say my piece and we will get out of your love and I do it in front of the clients by the way and we will get outta here a lot quicker and we will cost our clients a lot less money if we give each other the respect we deserve Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:29:38] Oh Lauren Marsicano: [00:29:40] Oh right So those are those are like my lawyer ways At a networking event it's so much different right Because you just you're in a group maybe you don't even know that person So they interrupt me I just honestly I let them interrupt me I just let them in a Rob me and then I'm such a I'm already such a presence in my opinion that it's not gonna prevent me from still moving forward And people say Lauren why did you go back to the point you were saying I'm like well because I was speaking and this person interrupted me and what I'll say Oh my God you know I don't know Gary Let's just say Gary Oh my God Gary that's so funny Cause I was just about to say blah blah blah blah blah Or you know if it relates back to what I was saying or or you know I'll let him finish we'll have a discussion and then I'll be like Oh my God still I totally forgot what I was saying was blah blah blah blah blah So like I'll just bring it back If it's a point I really really want to make there are some times where it's just like it's not worth worth it I think it actually makes them look worse when they interrupt us more If you just stay pleasant and nice it's like wow Lauren Lauren's a cool person You she doesn't cause a scene She you know She always wants to get along with people which I do like I genuinely do just want to connect and bond That person probably isn't going to like me very much anyway Uh so I mean I'm not going to try to be rude to them Now there are times when the interruption is purposeful right And there have been very few very very tight to situations where I know the person was coming at me where they purposely were just trying to cut me out And then I have probably not reacted the best because you know that that gets me where like if they've interrupted me a couple of times and they're like they start edging you out of the circle you know That thing and and what I will just say I'll I'll look kind of at the group and I'll look at if I if I know anyone I kind of make eye contact and usually men will be the one that say Hey Lauren what was it you were saying again Or like they'll bring you back in and and that's kind of what I do Or if not I'll be like excuse me I'll make Oh I'm sorry Uh I'm still here Like sometimes be like Oh oops I think you got I think you're on my shoe Oh Oh no no no You're fine You're good Oh good Excellent Like there's little things like that but I just think it's better not to cause huge confrontation at networking events That's just me That's how I that's how I handle it But I think just being comfortable in yourself being a presence being confident I think that comes across better And people actually come back to me There'll be like Laura and what was it you were saying Maybe just just you and confident I would say so Yeah They're different Caitlyn Allen: [00:32:14] Yeah No those were such like so great to hear like how you have I don't know how you approach the situation because I don't know I feel like sometimes it's such a hard situation to address that it just feels like Oh I just want to like shrink up Um Lauren Marsicano: [00:32:33] can't do that Don't do that Right Don't do don't shrink because you're still amazing and people still like you're still valid and you're still valuable Just because someone is being like that and they might not even be doing it on purpose That is just who they are And so you just got to accept people for who they are and know Hey I'm a queen I got this I'm here And like at these people Want to still talk to me We're going to get back to what I was saying or we're still going to keep talking It's not it's not a huge deal Don't shrink though because you're a queen right You rule you got that crown Keep that crown high and think about Caitlyn Allen: [00:33:06] Well I think that our effort our crowd is going to love this episode Thank you so much Lauren And as we wrap up we want to know where can we find you on social and the interwebs. Lauren Marsicano: [00:33:20] I would love to connect with everyone on here. You can find me on Instagram at networking, Maverick dot dot com at networking Maverick. You can go to my website, which is www.networkingmaverick.com and I have a bunch of freebies on there for you. Whether you want to learn how to turn your network into net worth with my top five tips, I've got that free beyond there.It's called the networking Maverick pocket guides, so you can take it with you. And then I have an Instagram growth guide on there as well, which are my tools and tips for growing your following and your presence and your branding. And then my last one and newest one is the seven steps to start success, the queen preneurs checklist.So that's going to be on there too. It's all on networking maverick.com.

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Hey guys, Brandon Olson here. Welcome back. Rank Daddy TV. Today’s episode is gonna be a little different, a little longer. Let me give you kind of a back story. So, in Rank Daddy, in the training, in the group, we had a contest over the Summer. It was a Summer business building contest. The objective was to add as much monthly revenue to your agency as you possibly could. So the grand prize was $1,000, just a drop in the bucket really compared to what growth you guys see, or have seen over the Summer that you’ve put into your agency. So, a lot of growth, there was a lot of competition, it was awesome. So, what we have in today’s episode, the winner, his name is Caleb. Just a regular dude. He’s doing SEO part time. Started an agency literally six months ago he joined us. So at the beginning of this contest, he was only three months in. Total newbie. And what that shows is, that Rank Daddy literally works for anyone, okay? It doesn’t matter if you know SEO, or you think you know SEO, or you don’t know anything about SEO. Caleb won this $1,000, but really compared to what he brought into his agency, what he grew his business, it was insane, he literally added $17,000 in new monthly recurring revenue. So we didn’t count anything that students already had going. This is all newly added revenue to your business. But because of the way he scales his pricing, he starts everybody out a little low, maybe gives them half price to get them in, but by the end of next month, or within a month from now, he’ll be at over $28,000 just from what he brought in during this contest. $28,000 a month in added revenue from the contest. So, just over the Summer. So here’s what happened. You’re gonna notice as you watch, Caleb, like I said is just a regular guy. He hasn’t been doing this very long. Six months total. He’s got another business that he runs full time, and takes his entire … Or the majority of his focus and his time. He’s in real estate. SEO for him is completely part time. So as you watch this, I want you to do this. Keep telling yourself throughout the video, self, if this guy, a complete newbie, just a regular dude can build and scale an SEO business to $30,000 a month in just a few short months, part time, I can do it too. So keep telling yourself, let’s get into my computer, I’ve got this thing downloaded. What happened is, when we announced him as the winner, he was getting message after message after message, how did you do it? What was your prospecting like? What is your pricing? So he hit me up. He said, Brandon, can I just go in and do a Facebook Live? Do a Facebook Live and explain to people exactly what I did so I don’t have to answer? I mean, it’ll be a lot faster. So, literally he was bombarded. So that’s what we got for today’s episode. He literally shares in this Facebook Live, and you’ll see as if he’s doing a question and answer, it’s because people are posting questions as he goes along. We downloaded it, put it on YouTube, so you won’t be able to see the questions. But just kinda be in tune with what he’s doing. But he literally shares exactly how he did it. How he landed the clients, how he used leverage to land more clients, how he priced his deals, and more. He goes into great detail. I’m really, really glad he shared his story. Now this thing is 47 minutes long. If you have to pause it, come back to it. But don’t skip any of it. This thing is insanely, insanely valuable. And remember, as yourself, if this regular dude can do this, why can’t I? And you can. So let’s go. So that’s what we got for today’s episode. He literally shares in this Facebook Live, and you’ll see as if he’s doing a question and answer, it’s because people are posting questions as he goes along. We downloaded it, put it on YouTube, so you won’t be able to see the questions. But just kinda be in tune with what he’s doing. But he literally shares exactly how he did it. How he landed the clients, how he used leverage to land more clients, how he priced his deals, and more. He goes into great detail. I’m really, really glad he shared his story. Now this thing is 47 minutes long. If you have to pause it, come back to it. But don’t skip any of it. This thing is insanely, insanely valuable. And remember, as yourself, if this regular dude can do this, why can’t I? And you can. So let’s go. Rank Daddy. What’s up? It is Tuesday, and I think, yeah, Tuesday here right at noon Central Time. It’s actually 11:59. I’m a minute early, but want to let you guys hop on here. I will give you guys a second, but we’re going to be talking about how I was able to win the 2018 summer contest. I’ve gotten messages after messages, and so I just sent a message over to Brandon, and just really was like, “Hey, man. Can I just come live because it’s going to be so much easier to just come live, rather than texting everyone back individually?” Whatever, you guys jump on, say hey, say hello. I want to see you guys in here, whether that’s a hand wave. Jerry, what’s up, man? How are you? Thanks for joining in. Like I said, guys, whatever, you hop in here, wave. Give me a little wave. Give me a thumbs up. Give me something. I don’t know. As well, want you guys to know this, any questions that you guys have, feel free to let me know. In the middle of this, I’ll definitely be able to answer those, and so wanted to just go through with you guys what my process is honestly, and what I did do to achieve everything I have, and so I’m not done yet. It’s not like I’m just going to kind of go, “Oh well, I’m here”, whatever. Aaron, what’s up? What’s up? Nathaniel, Randy, how are you, guys? Alec, how are you? [Amit 00:01:36]? [Ahmet 00:01:37]? Dude, I don’t know. I’m sorry. The worst pronouncer of names ever here. Jimmy, what’s up, man? All right, guys, so we’re just going to go ahead and kick things off. If you guys are watching this on the replay, say replay. Want to see who all watches this live, and obviously back. Like I said, for those of you who just jumped on, if you guys have questions, feel free to reach out and say them right in the middle of this, all right? I want to help you guys, because like I said, I’ve been getting tons of messages, “Hey, what did you do?”, “How did you do this?”, all this, and so I messaged a couple of people back, and then I was like, “All right. No. I’m done. I’ve got to go live because texting people back so much is just not going to really work out as well.” “It just took forever.” This is honestly what I did, all right? If you guys aren’t in Rank Daddy Pro yet, please, please, please go sign up for it, because that’s why I was able to do what I did. You guys need to really … For those of you who are in Academy, you guys need to figure out a way to upgrade. I don’t know. Get a credit card with 0% APR interest, something like that to make this investment because this is a huge, huge investment, and for those of you who are in Pro, you guys know the value of one, all the trainings, but secondly, our Facebook group. That’s just incredible of a small community that we hope to get even bigger, but just how helpful that it is, right? Whenever you ask a question, it’s all there, and that’s honestly why I was able to do what I did. Now, let’s talk about prospecting, all right? What I did is I literally just came up with a list. I sat down one night and just started thinking, “Okay. What kind of businesses are there? What are the categories?” All right? I’ve got a list pinned up of roofers, landscapers, tree service, a dentist, pest control, towing, restaurants, water damage, painting, contractor, lawyer, a plumber, carpet cleaning, a limo service, car detailing, a mover. I just came up with a big list of … Oh, man. My water is out. That’s a sad day. All right. I guess I’m back. Cool. If you guys can hear me, just give me a thumbs up. It said I had low internet connection for a second, so just want to make sure that you guys can hear me before I start to ramble on. Like I said, create that list there. I’m seeing thumbs up. All right. Perfect. Thanks, guys. Creating that list helped me, and this is what I did. I straight up just did this because a lot of you guys might not know this, but I’ve got a background in the real estate industry, and that’s really what I do kind of more so than SEO, is I buy and flip and sell investment properties, and so that’s really what I do full-time. It’s kind of what I focus on, because there’s big money in that. You can pop off a big chunk of 20, 30,000 bucks at once, and so that’s what I focus on, and I do this stuff on the side, so I haven’t really gotten full into prospecting like I really want to, just because again, I don’t have the time running two businesses, so I just have to pick and choose what I have. What I did is I straight up went on to Google. Again, this is a prospecting method in Rank Daddy Pro, then I’m going to give you guys tips about what they teach you in Pro of what I actually use. What I did is I just created a list like that, and I just straight up cold called. I went on to Google, began at the top of page two, and just started calling people. “Am I the only one? The video stopped playing.” Yeah. It kicked off, so if you guys need to rejoin, go ahead and get back on there. What I did is I cold called them straight up. I also had a virtual assistant help me, and what I would do is, is I made a training video, and if you guys have a Mac, it’s key. Hey, if you guys are on here, I see some new faces hopping on. If you guys have questions about what I’m talking about, anything else, feel free to ask me. If you guys are catching this on the replay, say, “Replay”. You can even do #Replay if you’re really feeling it. So happy to have you guys on. What I did is I had a virtual assistant help me with this as well, is that they would go through, and they would actually go and create lists for me. What they would do is, is they would call, or … They would call. I did that at first. Matt, yeah. Absolutely, man. Happy to help. What I did is, is I had a virtual assistant go through … I gave them a big list, and I told them to go through page 10. Honestly, I probably should have had them go through page like 15 or whatever, but of each industry and each city that I wanted to, so I’m here at the Nashville area, so I gave him like Nashville and a few surrounding areas as well that I thought might be a good idea, and I had him create an Excel sheet of the business name, company phone number, email address if it was there, and I think what page of Google they were on. What I did is, is with all those emails, what I did is I created a MailChimp, and I sent out a MailChimp to that same list about three times. I sent the same thing, and then I mixed it up, but I just sent it over and over and over again, until I got people saying, “Take me off your list”, or whatever just to know that people got it, but that worked. I got a couple of clients by doing that, and then I called people. Just straight up cold called them. One of them is … Actually, I’ve got a follow-up with them tomorrow. Funny enough, this was back in June, all right? He was ready for SEO. He’s a t-shirt printer. They do that, and they do embroider as well, which is something that I didn’t really think of, but they were ready to do SEO, man, and it was t-shirt company population of about 200,000 people. They were ready, and their AC blew out in their workspace, and so he was like, “Hey, I’m not going to be able to. I want to. Call me back in September.” Here we are, so I’m going to get back with him and follow up, and that’s another big thing, is follow up. Make sure that you guys create some sort of … For me, it worked the best creating a Google sheet, and just kind of keeping up with who I called, when I called them, when I was going to need to call them back, things like that, and that was really a great way for me to know who I needed to call when, and it just helped me keep organized, because I feel like I need to be … I’m a very organized individual, so I like to have things laid out to a tee. You know what I mean? That’s what I would suggest for you guys, is to do that. Again, if you guys have questions throughout all of this, feel free and shoot. I did that, and then, this is a really important thing that I did as well, and this has worked for me the very best, the very best, asking for referrals. Now, you can’t just straight up ask for a referral until you do some work for them, right? One client, my very first one, I landed back in I think April or May, and what I did is, she was paying me about two grand a month, and so I literally socked all 2,000 into her. Boom. I was just throwing it in there, PBNs, press releases, Web 2.0, doing tons of stuff to get her up there, right? Population, about a million. I mean, I was throwing stuff. I was just literally like I said all of it to her, and so what ended up happening is, is in July, she had a record-breaking month, like three times what she’d ever made, and so she was just crazy. She’s like, “This works. This is amazing. Oh, gosh”, so I asked her, “Hey, do you know anyone else that could use the same thing?” She referred six people to me. Six that are all clients right now, all right? They range from a CBD oil shop thing. He’s just sells CBD oil and a few Gummies, and things like that to a plumber. I mean, the list goes on and on of just random friends that she has that are attorneys, and a plumber, a CBD oil shop owner, like just random things, but she was like, “Look at what happened. This guy is legit.” That’s really what happened, and I got her from cold calling, right? That’s what I did, but then … My best advice for you guys is your first one, two, three, four clients really, so everything they give you into them to get them up there to generate the most money. Yeah, you probably won’t make a lot or anything at all, but it’s going to be worth it, guys, so make sure that you guys are sowing into people, and giving and putting everything you can into them. Don’t be super greedy. “Oh well, I’m going to just wait until they pay me.” No, no, no, no. Push that in. Sow into them, because guess what’s going to happen, is when you do that, people know, “Wow, they’ve given me everything”, and now look at it. She gave me six new clients. Why? Because I helped her get a record-breaking month because I wasn’t pinching pennies. I was putting every cent into her website and ranking her. Every penny, all right? I mean, yeah, I think I ended up making like, I don’t know, 2,000 bucks for two months of it. I ended up making about $400, so 200 bucks each month. That kind of like made up for my time, just as far as putting into it. You know what I mean? It didn’t really make up for all of my time, but it made up for a little bit, and so like I said, I just sowed into it, right? That’s what I did, guys. I mean, it’s really not that hard, and another big thing is Facebook marketing. That’s another big one, is literally doing this, joining the yard sale groups, buy, sell, trade groups, literally any of that, and just post something like this, “Hey, local business owners, share your website. Let’s see what we come up with”, and make something creative. Make it sound like you’re trying to talk to people, and then say, “Mine’s in the comments”, and you start it off, and you share your SEO agency site, right? You say, “All right. Hey, here’s my company site. I run an online marketing agency.” I just say online marketing agency is a lot easier. People don’t know what SEO is most of the time, so say something like … Literally just do that and don’t spam a group, right? Add some value to it. If somebody is asking for a referral for a chiropractor, give them yours, whoever you go to, a dentist, same thing. Add value so that way, people see you as real, not just as a spammer. You know what I mean? Literally, like I said, just it’s when you get that one client, when you get your first, what you need to do is you need to literally sow every penny that you have to getting them to be number one, all right? Here’s why. Here’s why. Even if you’re like, “Yeah, it’s 500 bucks a month they’re going to pay me. What the heck?”, it’s nothing. Put all 500. Put 700 into it, right? Here’s why. When you can show somebody rankings and say, “Look at this guy. I ranked him. He’s ranking number one”, mobile, on a computer, and in the Map Pack … It’s important for you guys who aren’t using SerpTrack.io, go use that to track your rankings. Literally, Brandon and whoever helped him create that is literally the best-ranking tool out there, so go sign up for that. Plus, it’s cheap. It’s the same price … I was using Rank Tracker before to pay 19 bucks a month, went over to Brandon’s and paid 20 bucks … Oh, a dollar more, and got double the keywords, and I think double or 10 times the sites I get, but like something insane that I was like, “Yeah. Why wouldn’t I, right?”, and he shows you a computer, ranking mobile and Map Pack, especially the Mac Pack. I think the Map Pack is probably one of the most important ranking tools because that shows up the majority of times when somebody searches on an iPhone, and over 60% of mobile of any search on to Google is done from a mobile phone, so yeah, makes sense that the Map Pack’s going to show up, and that’s why it’s important to get you guys up there. Again, I would really highly suggest for you guys to just hustle and cold call people. Call people off of one of the billboards, a van, and here’s a big one that you guys probably aren’t going to like this, show up in their office. Just show up, right? Show up. Dress professionally with a little handout, some sort of a letter, a flyer, I don’t know, something that you can hand them and say, “Hey, this is what I do.” “No.” “Are you guys interested, and if not, you just leave it there”, because who knows? In six months, they might call you back, right? They might, because they might be going through a hard time, one, or two, if they are already doing SEO, their SEO, dude might just suck, okay? Straight up, might just suck. I had a client, and they were with another SEO company for like six months, best-ranking like page four, I think. All I did was on-page SEO on to … They ranked number one in all their cities they were trying to go after, right? Again, my man Jerry here, who is on … I don’t know. He was on. I don’t know if he is. He helped me out big time, and guess what? In Rank Daddy Pro. That’s why it’s so important, guys for you guys to get into Rank Daddy Pro here. Now, I’ll be honest, Brandon didn’t ask me to come on here and sell you guys Rank Daddy Pro and blah, blah, blah. That’s not why I’m doing this. I’m just being honest, giving you guys my opinion about what’s best, because you guys saw what I was able to accomplish, and why was that? Rank Daddy Pro. That’s why I was able to do that. Why do you think that Ed over here is popping off these big clients? One, he actually hustles and actually does the work, and two, Rank Daddy, right? That’s why. A community, right? We ask each other questions, even if we feel like it’s a silly thing to ask like, “Hey, guys. I should probably know this, but I’m just kind of drawing … I’m just kind of having a hard time remembering what that is. What is that?”, and people answer, and boom. There it is, so people … We help each other there, and it’s fantastic. As far as what my favorite niche and population size is, honestly, I don’t really have a favorite niche necessarily because I’ve got a bunch of different clients and a bunch of different fields, and they all work pretty well, from car detailing to a plumber, to CBD oil, to tons of different things. Honestly, I think my favorite clients to go after are probably the ones in the like 1,000 to $1,800 a month range, and I’ll talk about how I also price things here in a minute, but I’m going to wrap this up fairly quick, probably 10 more minutes because I’ve got a tea time this afternoon. Why? Because I don’t really have to work that much, because I’ve gotten this stuff. Yeah. I’m going to continue to push, but guess what? I can work half a day in the morning and go play 18 holes in the afternoon because of this, so it’s fantastic. My favorite population sizes honestly are probably anything under about 300,000. That’s me. Why is that? Because that’s the easiest to rank. Really, all you would need to do is drop a press release, do social signals, Web 2.0s, and of course, this is kind of … You should just know this, but do an on-page SEO correctly, right? That’s kind of a given, but doing that right. Let’s just back it up. On-page SEO, number one. Very, very important. Then, press release, social signals, few Web 2.0s and a couple PBNs, and they’re pretty much top three, and really, once you do the local citations, they’re going to be up there in the Map Pack. Matt, yes. One second. I will go over that. Yes. One of the things that you guys need to look at is what’s going to be easier to rank, 10 clients and a thousand bucks a month in a population of 150,000, or one client going national from very competitive keyword for 10,000 bucks a month? In fact, they’re going to be on you constantly every day. “Hey, how are the rankings? Hey, how are the rankings?” “Hey, how are the rankings? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.” They’re going to be on you constantly, but somebody paying you a thousand bucks a month in a population of 150,000 people, yeah, they might message you once a week, but guess what? The upkeep’s going to be a lot less because they know you, they trust you. It’s not going to be a big corporation. It’s going to be a mom and a pop type thing. It’s going to be one dude running it, or a father and son, husband and a wife. You get the idea, so it’s a little bit easier, so I would pick easily a 10, a thousand buck a month clients in a hundred thousand, 200,000 city because you get a rank faster, and when you get those, it just gives you more ammo, more marketing ammo, saying, “Look. Look at me. Look at me. I rank this guy number one.” “I can do that for you”, and that’s a big thing of other clients that I got, is that yes, the one client that had that record-smashing, not even [breaking 00:23:28], so record-smashing month in July. They just saw her, and they saw those rankings and said, “Yeah. She said you’re good. I don’t even need to see other people”, so that’s why it’s important for you to focus on one individual client, or two or three to get them up there to begin asking for a referral. That’s very, very key. Now, Matt asked, “Can you go over a bit of how your cold calls went, stuff that you found worked and didn’t, et cetera?” Yes. This sounds kind of silly, I guess, but get yourself a pair of headphones, all right? I’ve got the Powerbeats3, so you just hook in to your ear. It just looks like this, right? It’s super easy. Super comfortable. The microphones here, you put this one on the other ear, and you just go at it, and you call, and you can’t tell. These things are, I think they’re 150 bucks. I would make an investment in these or something like it, plus, I like these for when I go on a run or anything like that because they’re just super nice. That’s my tip number one, get some sort of a headset, but this isn’t what I would say, is as soon as I would call them, is whoever would answer is I would say, “Hey, just out of curiosity, I found you guys online back on page four or five. Was just curious if you guys have anybody doing SEO or online marketing work for you guys at all.” They would just base on what they would answer, I would kind of lean with that, see how they would answer, and then just say, “Okay. Great. Is there something I could maybe chat to, maybe a manager or somebody who’s in charge of all of your guys’, all of the marketing?” They would usually be like, “Yeah. Sure.” “That’s Jim. He does all of that, or that’s John”, or whoever, and you would get to them, and then you just ask them and just say, “Hey, found you guys back online back to page four or five. Was just curious if you guys have anybody helping you guys rank your website, increase your traffic, get more leads, et cetera.” If they’re like, “No thank you.” Be like, “Would you like to increase your revenue by two times or five times?” Kind of like, “Wait. What? Yeah, of course.” SEO can help you with that, right? One thing is cold calls get a lot easier the more you do them and the more ammo you have. Ammo is clients, and rankings, and things like that. You can say … This is one of the things I love to do, and when I first began, I would use this, because I had already ranked, and this was before I even found Rank Daddy and all, but I had already ranked my real estate investment company up there, and so I would just have them on the phone, say, “Hey, why don’t you go in to Google right now and just type in, ‘Where can I sell my house?’, in whatever their area was, because I knew that I was already up there, and just say, ‘Hey’. Just tell me who shows up number one.” They would read, “Oh, this website.” “Yup. That’s me.” “If you click on that, go to the About Page, you’ll see my name, my picture, all of that”, to give them a validity saying, “Oh, snap. I Googled this, and you just showed right up.” It’s good when you talk to somebody over the phone, is have them actually look up one of your clients, right? Actually, look that up while you’re on the phone with them. Say, “Hey, yeah. Are you in front of a computer?” They’re like, “Yeah, I am.” “Wonderful. Go ahead and hop on there to Google, and just type in there whatever the keyword that your client’s up there for”, and they’re going to say, “Yeah. I see that.” You say, “Yup. I ranked them.” It gives them a validity, so it just gives them validity to see, “Okay. This dude is real. This client here, he’s ranking them, and okay. All right. All right. I’m beginning to see this, beginning to trust this”, so really guys, with cold calling, you’re going to face rejection. It’s just going to happen, and this is a weird trick, I know. This is going to sound so weird to all of you, but it works for me, so you’ll have to find your thing that works for you, is that give yourself some sort of a reward for cold calling people. What I would do, kid you not, I’m a two-year old, it’s so funny, I would literally … I went to Sam’s Club, and I bought a big thing of some fruit snacks, so I literally would, after every couple of calls, I would say, “All right. I can eat a couple of these. For every two, three calls I make, I can get one gummy or two”, however I set it in my own head. What that would do is, is that would motivate me a little bit to call them to say, “Okay. I can’t eat these until I make that call.” I know it sounds silly, but it worked for me, right? Maybe for you, it’s, “All right. I can’t play another round of 18 holes until I make 25 calls, 30 calls. I’m not allowed to do something I enjoy until I make this many calls.” What that’s going to do for you is it’s going to kind of give you motivation to do it, right? Hey, guys. If you guys have any questions, feel free to shoot. Alexis, I’m trying to expand your question there. It says, “See more”, but when I hit “See more”, just brings me to like it or something. I don’t know. Yeah, “Share one of your real estate sites.” We can talk about it. Yeah. Send me a private message and we can chat. Oh, before I forget, yes, this is the last thing I’m going to go over, but if you guys have any other questions, feel free and shoot. Again, got to go play 18. What I did as far as pricing, this has been huge for me, and this has worked so stinking well, is what I’ve done is … All right. Let’s just say that you’ve got a client for 2,000 bucks a month. Aaron, yeah. Literally, it’s exactly what I’m going to go into. This is how I set this up, guys, and this works so well. So well. Let’s just say that we have a $2,000 a month client. Again, guys, in Rank Daddy Pro, it teaches you how to price clients correctly, and how to do it all, and again, a good Rank Daddy Pro community that’s, has other clients and might have them in your own, in that particular area or clientele that you’re shooting for. They might be able to help you, and give you tips. “Oh, hey, I only gave them a thousand dollar a month, $1,500 a month”, whatever. It’s a great way to help, but this is what I did. Let’s just say we have a $2,000 a month client, right? What I would do is, is I would give them a bit of a pricing cut month one and month two, so I would tell them this, “All right. It’s going to take about 2,000 a month”, and this is a good thing for you guys to do. I always send this in an email always. I never tell them a pricing over the phone. I always say, “Hey, I’m going to have to look into it. Let me send you an email.” Here’s why, is you have that in writing proof of what you’re going to offer them, how much, how everything is. It’s just wise to have everything in writing, all right? Now, what I did … Again, I keep on shooting off here. Let’s go back. 2,000 buck a month client. How I present this to them is say, “All right, so the typical price is going to be 2,000 a month, but you know what? What I’m going to do for you is I like to help out other companies because I know what it’s like.” “I get it. I know what it’s like to pay for a marketing channel that’s new and might not generate leads right off the top, and it’s going to take time, and I get that. I know what it’s like. I run a company too”, blah, blah, blah. “I know what it is. What I’m going to do is I’m going to actually help eat some of your costs.” “It’s not that you’re getting any less of a package, but I’m going to actually help you eat costs. Yeah, it’s going to be 2,000 bucks a month, but, you know what? For month one and two, I’m only going to charge you a thousand, or 800”, or you make the determination for what you feel is comfortable for you, and say, “All right. You know what? I’m going to chop that 2,000 in half, so month one is going to be a thousand, month two, same thing, another thousand, and then month three and beyond, it’s going to jump up to the agreed upon $2,000.” What that does is it lets people see, “Oh, wow. It’s kind of like I’m paying for one month, but getting two months out of it.” “Oh, okay. All right.” It’s a lot easier for them to try things out for lesser, for less money than what you talked to them about originally, because it makes them feel like they’re getting a deal, a sweet deal. “Hey, I’m giving you half off”, and that’s how you get to give it to them. I did that. Worked like a charm. Perfect, like you would not believe. Worked incredible, all right? That’s how I do it for everyone of my clients is I give them a bit of a price cut, and honestly, I don’t give them any less. If I lose money, I lose a little bit of money. No big deal, because I know that it’s going to succeed and they’re going to come back month three, four, five, six, seven, and they’re going to keep paying me money, right? It’s a way for me to set myself up for the future to know, “Okay. They’re going to keep paying me. They’re not going to stop paying me.” Any other questions, guys? That’s kind of how I did what I did. I know you’re kind of like, “Did I miss something? Yeah.” Like, “What’s going on?” No, guys. That’s literally it. There’s no secret magic sauce, you know what I mean? It’s just doing it. Hey, Ken. Yeah. How many calls a day was I doing? Like I said, I also run a real estate investment company, and so I did this SEO thing on the side. I wasn’t really focusing on it, so I would only make five to 10 calls a day, if that, and I did for probably a couple weeks, until I landed a couple clients, then I kind of got overwhelmed with a couple of houses. I went to buy and fixing them up, and doing things, so I got overwhelmed and didn’t really focus on it much, other than the clients I had, and so what I did is like I said, is I said, “Okay. Probably, the easiest way for me to get more clients is to have one do really, really well and have a couple do really, really well, and have them just refer people to me so I don’t have to make all the calls and do that.” I was right, and it worked, and yes. Ken, what I did is I … I would definitely encourage you to go watch the first half. What I did is I have a virtual assistant. I picked a bunch of categories, roofers, landscapers, tree service, all of that, and what I did is had a VA go and pull the company name, the website, the phone number, any email address that was on there, and what page they were on to Google on, and when I call them, I always added a couple extra pages, so if they’re on page two, you go, “Hey, we found you on page four or five”, kind of make it sound kind of worse than it is, and so that’s how I set that up. Yeah. Aaron said, “Are you basing price off city?” Yeah. What I tell them, I tell everyone this, is I base what the pricing is on these two things, the city population size and your competition, how much competition do you have in your area online, right? Really, all I do is I base it off a city, and so … I forgot that was empty, man. Did that earlier. Definitely going to have to get some water here soon. How I set things up is right now, I’ve got a plumber in a city of 50,000 for about 600 bucks a month because I know that that’s a lot for him, but it’s going to work well for him, so yeah, I base it all off city population size, and so what I would say is kind of a good rule of thumb, is anything below 150,000 people, consider being in the range. I don’t want to charge people less than 500 bucks, and that’s like rock-bottom. I really don’t take people under a thousand, but I took on a plumber just to again build my ammo, build my rankings to show people, “Hey, I ranked him”, so I’m not making money off of him. I’m going to make money off of him eventually though because I’m going to use his rankings to show other high-profile clients, right? That’s how I set things up, so don’t say no to the little guys because it’s going to help you land a much larger fish. Like I said, anything under 150,000 people, I would probably look at between 500 and a thousand bucks, somewhere in that range, and then population of 150 to 300,000. I would say no more than 2,000 a month, just kind of look in that kind of range. I feel like a good, solid base no matter what is about 1,500 bucks because if you look at it, you run local citations, press release, social signals, PBNs, kind of gives you enough to put into the client, but you also make a little bit, so if they’re not feeling 3,000 bucks a month, chop it in half and see what 1,500 bucks is. You know what I mean? It’s better to get something than nothing at all, and again, clients … Excuse me, the smaller fish are going to help you land bigger clients because new, potential clients want to see rankings of current clients, so if you don’t have any because you’re too expensive and you’re not willing to kind of take a little bit of a hit upfront to get those rankings, then guess what? You’re probably not going to do so well. Okay? Just saying, so that’s what I would do, all right? All right, guys. That is really … Honestly, guys, that’s everything. If nobody has any other questions, I’m going to sign off. I’ve got like I said my tea time here pretty soon, so I got to go get changed and go get ready for that. Going to grab a bite to eat and go play 18 holes. Guess what, guys? You guys can live the luxury life I am … No. I’m just kidding. I’m not really … Listen, guys, I’m not living some extravagant life or anything like that. Just working hard, guys. It’s what I tell all of my employees, is I tell them this is, “Listen, guys. We just have to work hard. We can’t settle. Don’t settle, guys. Don’t settle.” When you have 10 clients, awesome. That’s great. You got 10. Go get 30. When you get 30, you did it. You got 30 clients. Go get 50. You’ve got 50. Oh, it can’t get better than this. Oh, it can, because when you hit 55, it gets better. When you hit 75, it gets better. When you hit 100, it gets better, all right? I’ve made a mistake, especially in all of the real estate side of things for me, is when I close a house, I’m saying, “Oh, man. Feels good. Let me kick back and relax. Oh, this feels great.” Right? Don’t do that. Don’t relax. Don’t settle. I’m not saying don’t go and enjoy yourself, right? Have fun. Live life with your family, your friends. Do fun things. Let this be a freeing experience to say, “I’ve got the money now. We can go play 18 holes. We can go on a little vacation, a weekend in somewhere, to the mountains, to a local beach, a lake house”, something to … Let this be an enjoyable process for you guys, and again, Rank Daddy Pro is where it is at, guys. It’s where it’s at. Go sign up. If you guys haven’t … I’m just telling you this now. That’s why I am where I am, is because of that, Rank Daddy Pro. Go and sign up for it, guys. I’m telling you, go do it. Go do it. It’s worth its weight in gold. “Yeah. So what? It’s a few thousand bucks.” Go open up a credit card and put it on that. Do something. Make an investment in yourself. Yeah, I had to pay too. Guess what? Pulling in almost 20,000 bucks a month. Going to up that to 30 or 40,000 a month coming up soon. Guess what? Got a few thousand bucks. It’s just a tiny, little drop, okay? You have to pay that. You have to pay to play. It’s just the way that it is, guys. It’s worth it. I’m telling you, it’s worth it. Listen, guys, if you guys have questions, feel free to drop a comment on here, and so feel free. Drop a comment, and I would love to answer it here, because it would be awesome if you guys can just leave any questions. Those of you guys catching this on replay, watch it here. Leave a comment here, so that way, I can answer it here, so that’s just like everybody can see it rather than you just sending me a message. Let’s try to keep it all in here, so that way, this helps everyone, and not just you. Guys, that is everything. Thank you guys so much for watching. I hope this has been a big help, just kind of give you guys some encouragement on what to do and things like that, so guys, go make calls. Go get it. Go kill it. Go lock up clients. Go get the job done. Guys, biggest encouragement here, do the work. Make the calls. Don’t hire somebody to do the calls. Make the calls yourself. It’s always the sweetest victory when you can do something yourself and say, “I did this. I made that call. I worked that deal.” “I got that person. I landed it. Boom. I did it. Yes, this is great.” Then, when you begin to land clients, then you can tell somebody, “Hey, this is actually how I did this”, rather than trying to hire somebody saying, “Hey, I don’t know how to make cold calls.” “I don’t know how to land a client. Just go figure it out.” You can’t do that. You got to do it yourself, right? That’s my biggest piece of advice. All right, guys. I will see you guys later. I got to go play 18 holes. I’ll talk with you guys later. All right. I’ll see you.

Speaker: Jeff Jarvis Don't Judge! Think back to a time when you were really concerned about someone who was engaging in some kind of questionable behavior. Perhaps there was neglect or mistreatment of a loved one. Maybe you observed some reckless spending or partying... perhaps an affair. Doesn't really matter what it was - you were concerned. So what did you do? Did you wrestle with whether or not you should say or do anything? I know I've wrestled. There have been times when I’ve watched someone making, what seemed like, really poor choices, but I hesitated to speak up. In fact, often I didn’t say a thing. Why? Because I didn’t want to be seen as judgmental. After all, that’s what Jesus warned us about. Right? “Don’t judge, lest you be judged”. It’s what religious people are accused of doing all the time. Sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong. But is that what Jesus was trying to prevent when he said these words? This Sunday we begin a brand new series entitled “Laws of the Universe” and we’re going to unpack this controversial act of judging. I think you'll see on Sunday how, if understood, it could make our lives and our world a whole lot better. Invite a friend and join us. To donate to this podcast and support the making of more of these please visit www.friendschurch.ca/podcast

Real Estate Today Radio - SHOW 487 On this week's Real Estate Today, it's our special show "Speed Real Estate." This Week's Show Includes: - Top News Of The Week - Price it Right - Don't Lose that Money! - Hot Or Not - Smart Home Technology - Get REALTOR(R) Become a part of the community at http://retradio.com!

Take stories about you and craft them to the market you're selling to... Hey, what's going on everyone? It's Steve Larsen. You're listening to the Sales Funnel Radio. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels. Now, here's your host, Steve Larsen. Hey, guys. What's up? Hey, I am going to a lot of events right now. I have an event every other week for the next almost two or three months. That's a lot of travel that's coming up. Some of them, I'm going just to go, and some of them, I'm going because I'm funnel hacking actually. What I'm trying to do, I was talking to Russell about this, with him in his office the other day, and I was like, "Yeah. You know what's funny is I've spoken a lot in smaller groups. I've spoken several times in bigger groups." A lot of people don't know I was actually a singer in high school and in college a lot. I sang in bands. I sang in choirs. I was in musicals. So I mean, the most I ever sang in front of is probably 40,000 people. That was fun. I've done that a couple times actually. I actually really enjoy that part of it. Anyway. What I was telling him is that I haven't really done a lot of speaking in front of more than a couple thousand. Right? So what I'm doing is I've done a lot of speaking in front of a smaller audience, and I'm learning how to control the room. You know what I mean? It's been a lot of fun to go through and do that. I've had a ton of fun with it. Okay? I'm learning to control the room. I'm learning how to make everyone sway the way I want them to. It's been a lot of fun. What I want to do is I want to go, and I want to watch big guys, right, the Russell Brunson's of the world, right, the Grant Cardone's. I want to watch them and how they interact with a room. I want to watch how they interact. I'm really pumped about it. So I've been going around to these different events and watching. It's fascinating to watch the different experiences, I guess, experience the different ways that they interact with the room. Big guys in front of big rooms. It's been a lot of fun. I've actually really, really enjoyed it, and gained a lot of things from it. So I'm sitting here, and I'm speaking next week in front of 2,500 people. I'm super pumped, you guys. Oh my gosh, it's so cool. It's an event down in Dallas called the Happiness Convention. Anyway. So I'm putting my slides together right now. What's been fascinating is to go and put these slides together in a way that with all the different lessons that are happening right now. You know? It's been a lot of fun. I've really, really enjoyed, and I know I keep saying that, but I really do, guys. I enjoy what I do. It's so fun. I can't remember who I was talking to the other day, and they're like, "Oh, that sucks, man. You had to work on a Saturday. That sucks so bad." I was like, "Actually, I am completely addicted to what I do. I'm completely both feet in. I really don't have any other hobbies. This is my hobby. I like to get better at it, and better and better and better." So anyways. I am sitting here, and I am creating my slides, and I'm putting together the slides. I'm supposed to get them over to him today. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that, but it's nice they gave me a full hour. What they're doing is they're letting me, I'm not selling, but I'm allowed to pre-frame my webinar, the stuff that my webinar sells. I'm allowed to go pre-frame that, and pull people from the audience over to that, and get them ready to buy that. So it's kind of fun. So I'm still breaking and rebuilding belief patterns the exact same way I would on the webinar. So what I've done is I've gone, and I've literally just cloned by slides for my webinar. I'm just adapting them to the room, removing certain elements from it, changing and adapting to the room, the audience that's going to be there. That's always been the hardest part is what I've noticed. It's funny, because there was a time I was speaking in Vegas. I sat down in the back of the room, and I had this stark realization that, oh my gosh, what I had just created is not for the right audience. So I pulled my laptop up, and I'm changing the lingo, same lessons, but the words had to change. You know what I mean? I was not using the correct vernacular. I was not using the correct isms from the people inside the room. I went through and I created. Luckily, I was able to really, really quickly go through and change what I was speaking about. Right? What was cool about it is that I gave the speech. It was awesome. It was a ton of fun. Then about six months later, no, it was about maybe nine months later, this guy walks up to me, and he goes, "Hey, man. I was there in the room when you gave that speech. I want you to know I made $100,000 from that speech that you made." He was like, "Thank you so much. I went out and I did the exact same thing that you were telling us to do. He was like, "I made a hundred grand." I was like, "What? Whoa." I don't know if that would have happened had I not addressed the correct individual in the room. Right? So that's been the hardest part preparing for this speech that I got to give coming up shortly to 2,500 people. I still need to break and rebuild the same belief patterns that I know are in there, but I've got to make sure that it's using the correct vernacular, using the correct stories. I got to use some of their isms. It's hard to always know what those are without actually observing the crowd. So it's funny, because I was telling Russell this story when that happened a while ago, and I said, "Yeah, man. I realized that it was not the right thing." He's like, "Yeah. I've totally done that." He's like, "What I like to do is go sit in the room, and watch the audience for a little while." He's like, "I'm watching the speaker, but what I'm really doing is I'm watching the audience to figure out what," I don't know if he'll remember he said this to me, but he was like, "I like to sit and figure out if my message will resonate with this crowd correctly, and I see what they're resonating with." He's like, "Then I go back to my hotel room. Then I go and I start writing. Then I go figure out the slides and stuff like that." It's so funny, because to so many people that is straight up ludicrous. "What? You finish your slides right before the actual presentation is needed?" Like, "Yeah." That's the reason why. Right? It's this ability, this speed, to be able to get things and produce things out there in a way that resonates with the crowd, but you can't do that unless you're okay with feeling a little bit of ambiguity of not knowing until you get there. Right? Anyway. I got to talk to him, and see, "Okay. Let me get you this rough draft of slides, but please let me get you an updated one after I get to the event." That's what I want to do. That's what I'm trying to do is, hopefully, is get these things done in a way that will allow me to adapt to the room. It's always funny, you guys. You'll start to experience this if you haven't already. Guys, Sales Funnel Radio listeners are rock stars. I know that. I know that about you guys. I know that. I appreciate you listening. I'm trying to give you the best sales funnel stuff. I got some really cool series and episodes coming up here shortly, and going to do a big ole round of interviews again with some experts of their industries. Anyway. There's a lot of cool things coming up here. I know that you guys have probably experienced that before. It's easy to see if the crowd is with you or not. Right? It's easy to see it. You feel it. It's the same thing with podcasting or publishing, whatever it is that you're doing. Any kind of communication piece, you begin to see and feel and know if the crowd is with you. In a very long roundabout way, that's all I'm trying to say in this episode is that when you are building your funnel, okay, make sure you are using a message that you know, not think, resonates with the people that are actually coming into your funnel, the same way that I would if I'm in front of them on stage, the same way you would if you were in front of them on stage. Right? You're trying to put this together in a way that, obviously, resonates in a really, really powerful way. I just had this really cool meeting with a guy who will actually be a guest on the show shortly here. So that's as much detail as you guys are going to get with him right now. He was like, "Hey, Stephen. I was looking through all your videos." He's like, "Your ability to invoke an emotion out of a video is amazing." I said, "Hey, thank you very much. I've been practicing it a long time." I said, "That means a lot." He goes, "Seriously though." It meant a lot what he was saying, and that's part of the reason why I keep telling everyone to just go freaking publish frequently. You're going to suck at it at first. Right? You're going to be bad. You'll be real bad. As you go, what you are really practicing when you're finding your voice is your ability, part of it is your ability to invoke emotion from those who are listening to you. Okay. That's what you're trying to go for, because if you can invoke emotion, you are at the foundation level of where you can start to break and rebuild belief patterns. Right? If I can invoke emotion from you, the listener, it means that I can start telling stories that will shape the way that you see the world or the industry that I'm trying to help you see differently. Does that make sense. Big ole nugget right there, big ole aha. That's why you publish so frequently. It's to find the voice, but really what we mean by that is your ability to invoke emotion. How can you do it in a way that is natural sounding and comfortable to you, right, to your personality? I know sometimes I'm a goofball. I'm a kid at heart. Some of you guys aren't. That's fine. All right. It's whatever it is that you are. So when you out speaking on stage, you're building the funnel, you're going out and you're writing copy, whatever it is, any communication piece, make sure it is resonating with the individual. Some of you guys might say, "Stephen, duh. I get that. Why wouldn't we do that in the first place?" What's funny is that when we write copy, a lot of times, we'll do it from the standpoint of what we think is cool. That's the wrong way to do it. Right? What you're doing is you are writing copy, you're telling stories as the other person would tell them. Okay? You're doing it as the other person wants to hear it, not how you think it sounds good or cool or professional or awesome. You've got to take yourself out of the copywriting experience, meaning you're not the one that you're writing the copy for. You're not the one that you're telling the story for. It does not matter what you think is good or bad. It is completely up to what the market tells you is good or bad, and because of that, you have to know them. I was coaching an individual, actually it was last week, just this last Friday actually. I was coaching somebody, and I was going through, and I was asking this person, "Hey, what market are you stemming from?" Meaning what's your sub market? They were like, "Oh, I don't know." I was like, "Then literally everything I say will be a straight guess." Then they're like, "What do you mean though? Just give me your opinion. Do you like this or not?" I said, "It doesn't matter what I think. I'm not the one filling your pockets, so screw my ideas. Right? Doesn't matter." I was like, "I'm trying to teach you a formula to extract it from the market. The market is what will tell you what is good or bad. Same thing with your storytelling. Same thing with your ability to adapt. You've got to use the vernacular of your market, not what you think is awesome." I've pounded that point several times with you guys. I'm just trying to make that whole idea. She's like, "Hey, is this good? Is this bad?" I was like, "It truly," and I could tell it was frustrating a little bit for this person, but I was trying to make a point. Until you know what sub market you're selling to, not industry, sub market, your stories, don't even start writing them. Right? Don't even start writing your stories. Don't even start putting your copy. It does not matter until you know exactly what sub market you are selling to. Right? It's the same thing. Until I know the person, the type of people, right, the conglomerate, top average individual that's going to be in that room when I start talking to them, some of this stuff, I'm not going to know. I've got to get ground level, got to get right down to the nitty gritty. Right? I got to get down to the nitty gritty of understanding these people and who they are and their passions, their emotions, their fears, their desires, their stories, the stories they're most used to hearing, the stories that I can tell that they will resonate with most, and that will let me invoke emotion powerfully. Anyway. I hope that made sense. That's the power of this. It's starting storytelling. Yes, just get good at doing it in general, but eventually you got to be able to adapt it to the individual with the correct vernacular, correct examples that they are used to hearing so that you are going to where they are, and bridging a gap from where they stand rather than from where you stand. It does not matter what you think. Anyway. That was a big massive ramble. Hopefully that was helpful to you guys. Anyway. I got to get these slides done here, and send it over to this guy. I'm excited to do it, super honoring. Funnel Hacking Live is coming up. I got a bit of a present for you guys coming up here as well for those of you guys who will be in it. So continue to listen, probably the next episode, I will tell you what it is. I just barely got them to my house. I'm not going to tell you what they are. Talk to you guys later. Bye. Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Want to get one of today's best internet sales funnels for free? Go to salesfunnelbroker.com/freefunnels to download your prebuilt sales funnel today.

Routinely, these are the most common ways we'll increase the perceived value of our offers... Hey, what's going on everyone? This is Steve Larson and you're listening to Sales of Funnel Radio. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio where you will learn marketing strategies to grow your on-line business using today's best internet sales funnels. Now, here's your host, Steve Larson. What's going on everyone? I am a kid at heart. What can I say? I'm going to be that way on purpose till I die. Do not make me into an adult. Hey, all right it's like 10:00. I've got three nights left before I'm going to go fly to Dallas, which I am super excited about. I am going to speak at Danny Vega's and James Smiley's B2B Mastermind, which, I am super excited about. It will be awesome. But I am up tonight and I am thinking through like the different things I am going to give and offer there and I am pumped about it. Ultimately I am going to do the same to you guys ... You know, if you want it. It's almost sad, I am putting the slides together, I'm putting together what I am going to deliver and put up there. It will be a three hour presentation, which I am really excited about, be fun. Anyway, I am thinking through a lot of the different funnels that I have built over the last little while. I am way past 300 funnels built in the last year and half. I have no idea how many it is now. I mean, it's huge. Anyway, I lost count. I know that, like there is one project once that was 82 funnels alone. I mean so honestly it could be in the 400's. I have no idea. I know that it is a crap ton. I was thinking through all the funnels. It was actually a lot of fun. Anyway, I think it was two weeks ago, I built a membership funnel live. A lot of people don't know you can build member areas inside Click Funnels that are amazing and frankly I still think that it's the best even out of Kajabi even out of all the other member area places, I still think that the Click Funnels ones are the best because it is still geared toward you continuing to be able to sell more and more and more. There is a lot of stuff that you can do inside member areas to increase your revenue even inside the member area that I don't know that you can do inside of other places. Anyway, lot of fun stuff. Went great. So I build the member's area live. It was, we had about 35-ish people watch the entire four and half hours while I built it live. And it was really fun because they could get there and they could interact with me. I did that for a live webinar funnel probably about a month ago and I just built out the entire thing live again, which, is a lot of fun. And I am going to do it again. I thought I would invite you guys to come along and join if you want to. It's one of the things that I will be giving and offering over to this mastermind too, in Dallas, which I am really pumped about. The pressure is on though. Man, got three days. It will be awesome. Just want to make it awesome, so ... December 2nd, what I am going to be doing is I am going to be building an application funnel. A high ticket coaching application funnel. Could be a coaching funnel. Could be some kind of application funnel. Could be high ticket product funnel. Could be whatever, whatever it is where someone has got to send or submit in an application. I am going to be building that funnel type. I'll show you three different strategies I have used as well. It has been kind of fun. I launched one of these of my own about a week ago in a different industry and it's going really, really well. I was able to pioneer a few different things that I am going to show you guys and it's working. It's been so cool to see it work. Oh, my gosh. Stuff I've never seen and even know what to do before. Anyway, if you guys want to go and watch it live and participate and things like that. It'll be at SalesFunnelBroker.com/live. SalesFunnelBroker.com/live... That is where you can register. I set it up just like a webinar on Zoom, but you guys can be on there, live with me and actually ask questions as we go through the whole thing and it's a lot of fun. Last group, anyway I know they learned a lot. I learned a lot. It was a lot of fun. I build from literally the ground up. Start from absolutely scratch and just show a lot of my different design principles and strategies. Things that are really fast. I build the whole thing together usually ahead of time. Try to have some assets together so that I'm not just filling in the blanks with dummy texts and things like that. It's great. Anyway, so plan on about four hours if you guys want to come watch, it's Saturday morning usually starting about 8:00 in the morning. 8:00 or 9:00 something like that Mountain Standard Time. You guys can jump on and watch. If you are listening to this episode and it is past December 2nd, for you and I guess for everyone else. I am going to be restructuring Sales Funnel Broker as I've, as I've ... It's great. I've tried to make it as a cool resource, a place that people could just download cool funnels. Some of them for free, some of them for paid. Show some of my other resources I use as I, you know that I used to funnel build with, but I need to revamp it. You know. I launched that before I even started podcasting so, I mean it's been out there for like a year and half. There is a lot of stuff I got to go update. I've got some cool ideas for it. I'm going to be selling some more ... Okay, just think about this for a second. I have built a ton of sales funnels in the last year and a half alright and I built funnels well before working for Russell on WordPress, which is terrible in different ways. On my own with Click Funnels during and it's been awesome. But, there are repeatedly the same funnels that I build over and over and over again that just kill it. Some of them in no matter what industry and some of them in very specific industries. What I was thinking is I've been listing out this huge list of funnels that I build over and over and over again. Why would I not build them from ground up with you guys so you can see how to do it and then at the end I will sell the share funnels as well as the recording with it. As well as, I always make these really in depth PDF maps so you can see what is going on, on each page. Why I do what I do, where it's hooking into. The automation behind it. Is there any third party stuff. Am I hooking stuff up with Zappy or how do I? I mean all the stuff that I am doing. And I want to be able to do and deep dive those things with you guys so that you've got even more power behind you on building these things. Anyway that's what's been going on this last little bit. It's been a whole lot of fun. I have been building. I just built an application style funnel. That one took me a couple of weeks 'cause I had to go film stuff and anyway it's been, but it was a lot of fun. There is a new take on the application itself funnel that I haven't really put out there before and it's been awesome. I kind of made it up. It's been working and it's in a different industry. It's been awesome but, anyway, been cool. Anyway, bit of a plug there... Whatever it's blatant and I hope you guys join. Hey, so, what I want to talk through real quick is the application style funnel. All right and real quick, so I don't know wherever you are or whatever but if you want to draw a value ladder. Right. At the bottom of a value ladder, and if you guys have never drawn before or this is your first time on the episode, or whatever it is at the very bottom of, like, lets, so the very lowest step. Let's say if you drew three steps of some stairs. On the very first step there that's typically where we have like a lot of free shipping stuff there. Free stuff in general. Free, free, free, free, free. Like lots of free stuff. Somewhere, usually between the first and the second stair step, personally that's where I draw. Like I call it the money barrier. When you break the money barrier, that's when you actually start to sift out actual customers versus freeloaders. Okay? It's super important. Something you always want to do. I put out lots of content for free. But eventually I sift you guys out. Who is it that is actually willing to pay to play? Who is actually willing to pay to learn and actually run fast with the people who are sprinting into certain industries. You know what I mean? Like, you've got to do the same thing. Pump tons of free content out there or whatever it is and then eventually you've got to have this barrier where you charge someone some money. Right? Then typically in the middle of the value ladder what I do is have a $1000 to $2000 product. Somewhere in that area. Right? That kind of becomes the core of the business. That's actually where I start. I start. When I start at, I only have you know. I'm doing my best to have one value ladder at a time. I know I did an episode a little while ago on that, but I try and do one value ladder where I start in the middle of the value ladder. I actually don't start at the bottom. I don't start by giving away free plus shipping things or the little tiny front end products or the little tiny. I'll start by giving out free lots of content and publishing. But I actually don't start selling stuff, you know, I start with the $1000 to $2000 range in any business. Because, you know when I am consulting or my own self or whatever it is, because it does not take many $1000 to $2000 sales to make a dent in the wall. It does not take many $1000 to $2000 sales to give you awesome profit to dump back into ads. How many $7 products do you got to sale to actually make a profit? A ton. Right? I would rather the market tell me what to create on those front end products. I don't want to guess. That's super risky. Seen a lot of people waste a lot of time on lower front end products. They don't work. It's a huge shame. I mean cause you just wasted all that time. You know so, what I do is start with the middle of the value ladder and then what I do is I typically also. Number one, start in the middle. Number two I go to a high ticket product in the back end. I don't go to the front end yet. This is the order in which, what should I call it. This is the order to create products on the value ladder. This is the order to do it. That I've seen work the best that I've done many times. Number one I start in the middle. Number two, I go back to the high end stuff. At least $5000. Right? $10,000, $15,000, 25 grand, in that range. You know, at least 5k though. Okay I guarantee, I mean if you've got any value at all you've pumped into the market place you could charge five grand for an event and get a few people to come in. That's actually how Russell started by selling those events. It actually started in events. He did that. He sold an event for $5000 and got two people to pay and was like, "What the heck? That's so cool." Number one, start with the core, number two you do kind of the back end. Number three, that's when I start creating front end products. That's when you start creating your little $7 things. Your $27 things, your $50 your $100 things, maybe even up to $300 things. If you start by, you know it's funny when you read the book Dotcom Secrets a lot of times what it makes you think is that you need to start the creation for your business the order is to create them is that you start with those front end things and that's just not how you do it. If you do it that way you are guessing. It's a lot of volume you've got to go through to actually make that thing convert before you've got to keep tweaking it before it actually. I mean even Russell himself when we launched those when we launched our own funnels. Most of the time round one they are not usually not successful out of the gate. Okay. It's usually when we make the second tweak. The first tweak the second tweak that's when they get wildly profitable. And Russell is Russell Brunson. He's I ... Second to him I have probably built more funnels than anyone I know. Any guru I know. Anyone. Like period, but he's number one though. He's done it, way, more than I have. Does that make sense? Like that's crazy. Even for him. Okay. If you look at how click funnels did stuff as well. Click funnels started by selling $1000 product called Funnel Hacks. Then it went into events and higher ticket things in the background. And then started creating things like Dotcom Secrets and front end things and Funnel Swag and Frontal U and Frontal Graffiti and all these front end products that all lead into the same thing. Does that make sense? For whatever reason it gets like it's sexy in someones head to do it the other way around or we start there. Don't start there. Do that last. Do that last when, when ... 'Cause here's what is going to happen. When, you start selling $1000 product, when, you start selling something that is thousand bucks, right? Or $2000 or whatever it is. The core of your business. I'm not saying it has to be that. But it's got to be enough money where it doesn't take many of them to really make a dent. Right? ... Where, you can dump huge profits back into ads. Right? When you start doing that you are going to get feedback in the form of complaints. It's just part of it. I remember the first time that ever happened for me. I was like why the heck are you complaining about this? "I wish you did X, Y, and Z. I wish you did this. Blah. Wipe my butt." You know and I was like, "Oh, my gosh. Are you serious?" What's going to happen is you are going to start to get feedback in the form of complaints. Now it is your job as the entrepreneur to sift the complaints and you want to sift them into two different groups. You are going to sift the complaints number one into feedback for how to tweak your existing offer. Okay. You might be getting these complaints and you're like, "Crap". Wait they are right. I should change X, Y, and Z. I need to tweak this thing. All right. That is what Russell is doing. That is what he and I are doing. Typically, when we launch something and we've got to tweak it the first round or two we are listening to our customer feedback and we're like "Crap. Let's sift these things. Okay? Let's go and et's tweak the offer. Let's make it even better." Right? The second thing though. The second category you gotta look for is, is when you can sift these customer feedback items and their telling you what to go and create on the front or back end of your value ladder. They are letting you know. The market is telling what it is that you need to go and create. Okay? These front end products are being created by the customer who bought your middle tier product. That make sense? Let me say it again. Your front end products, typically the most successful ones I've ever seen. Typically, the ones, their being created third. The customer is telling you what they want you to create. They don't know they are doing that but that is what their doing. We're taking all those pieces of feedback and we're saying you know what? People wish they had shirts with our logo on it. Let's make Frontal Swag. You know what? People are telling us that they wish that they had something to help them write their copy. Front End Scripts. Right? We didn't start with front end products like that. We started with the mid and I personally do that as well. I start with the middle area of the value ladder at least $1000. When I get that core down when I get it converting. "Psssh." You've got yourself an ATM machine. You've got a cash machine... Then you make an application style form on the back end selling your one-on-one coaching, you're done for your stuff, your implementation styled products. Right? Don't put implementation styled products. Don't put coaching. Don't put one-on-one stuff in the core area. Don't put yourself in the fulfillment of the core of the value area. You put that in the back end. That is why I am going to build an application stype funnel with you guys. That's why I am doing that. If you want to come join me and watch me do it. Right. Get your questions answered then come watch. SalesFunnelBroker.com/live. You can watch the whole thing. I'll do the whole thing. You can watch for free. You know and follow along. You can do whatever you want anyway, but then I am also going to have for sale the actual funnel themselves as well as the training as well as a whole bunch of other stuff. It's just going to be awesome. Action sequences, a whole of bunch of other cool things I am going to toss in there for you. Then what I do is I build front end products. Front end funnels. Front end things that can with the only intent. You're not trying to make money on them. The only intent is to recoup ad costs and get customers for free so that anything they do on the middle of the value ladder and on the back of the value ladder is pure profit. Does that make sense? This is like value ladder strategy and it always irks me just a little bit when I see someone. I'm like no. Don't start with the front end product. I'm not telling you, you can't make money but, you gotta sale a crap load of those things to make a difference in your wallet. I got so animated I just threw my pen. Oh, almost landed in the trash can. Anyway, so hopefully that helps. That is all I am trying to say with this whole thing. I've built a live webinar funnel, live. I built the membership area funnel, live and a lot of cool strategies that showed how to use them in affiliate areas too, which is crazy cool. Then I am going to do an application style funnel as well. All of these are going to be available shortly on SalesFunnelBroker.com. If you want it, go check it out. I've got three requests in a single hour to build someones funnel. There is no way I can handle it out. There is no way I am going to try to. Honestly, it would be a disservice if I did try to. It'd be a disservice to all the people that I said. You know that I would say yes to. The way that I am getting around it is still building the kick butt totally rockin' funnels that I do know how to build but do it live with you guys in a template where can go do the same thing you are trying to do with it. You know what I mean? That's why I am trying to do these things live. For a while, I've got a huge list of funnels guys. You guys have join me for a while. I'm. If you want to keep going back to SalesFunnelBroker.com/live periodically, I'm just going to be building funnels live for quite a while. You guys can still come in. You can still grab them. I am going to be updating a lot of cool stuff and sharing things. It's the latest and greatest. Things that. Stuff that I know no one else is doing. Because we either pioneered it or I made it up or I figured it out or we made it up. Or whatever it is. Anyway, I'm excited. If you want to join you can. Please adhere to funnel strategy that we know works the best. Or I should say value ladder strategy. This is the order to build products on a value ladder. Number one mid tier, not front end. Mid tier, mid product, mid priced at least thousand bucks. Number two, go towards the back of the value ladder. Go at least $5000 on something. Coaching and event. Some kind of done for you application. Some kind of implementation. That is where we do that, higher up on the value ladder not towards the bottom. Number three, then we do the actual market driven front end products. Not from us with the sole intent to recoup ad costs. Anyway, I feel like the last few episodes for me have been a lot of techno babbled styled stuff. But I feel like ... Anyway, I hope you guys feel and sense that I am just trying to drop gold. These are the things that I do. Things that we know. Things that I have been doing for a long time and I just. Anyway, it blows me away when someones like "Oh yeah, I've got all these front end products and they are doing well, but, I'm not making any money." It's like, "Duh." 'Cause you're not supposed to make money with that stuff. That's supposed to give your customers for free. What's your actual business? What's the core? What's the mid tier product? What's the back end? Anyway, so hopefully this has been helpful. Hopefully these episodes have been great. I've kind of done some funnel deep dives lately. I've got some cool plans for this podcast coming as well. I am excited for you guys to be part of it and. Anyway if you've gotten any value at all. I love hearing that. It kind of keeps me going. Keeps me juiced. Because each one of these episodes honestly takes me in full after creating it, after putting it all together about an hour and half to two hours per episode. It's nice to hear ever once in a while, like a little shout out. I love it. Super nice. If you guys want to go to iTunes. Please rate the podcast. Give a rating. A love the written reviews. That helps me like crazy. That helps everyone else trying to find this kind of information as well. Anyway, it has been great. Last little shout out. If you guys want to join with me and dive into this whole thing. Even if you don't have a Click Funnels account, you can still watch. It's just a Zoom link so you can do live Q & A with me with everyone else and we'll build this whole thing together. And it's going to be awesome and I'm going to keep doing that for a while. Mostly 'cause I love building funnels. Some of them are funnels I need to build anyway, personally. I just thought I would include you in the journey. Go to SalesFunnelBroker.com/live and you can check that on out. Anyway you guys are all awesome and I will talk to you later. Bye. Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Want to get on of today's best internet sales funnel for free? 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Episode 139: Prince Abdi I just realized I have no idea how many episode descriptions I owe the show. I’m writing it all as one big text document with no breaks, because I got a file with three podcasts in it with no breaks. Makes sense right? Right? Don’t you fucking argue with me. Sorry for that little outburst. As I’m typing this the last podcast that was released was the one with Eddie Brill. I know there’s been a few guests since then, the most recent one was Steve McGrew. I don’t think we’re that far into the releases so I guess that was a spoiler. You want to know another funny thing? Of course you do. My own episode descriptions are sometimes as short as five words. So by that logic, I just wrote one hundred episode description while drinking my protein shake. Dave image used with permission, courtesy of @ThatFrakkingCat Episode description written by @AvailableInADHD If you enjoy the content, don't forget to like & share this post! https://www.patreon.com/Wearenotheretopleaseyou http://wearenotheretopleaseyou.blogspot.fi http://availableinadhd.com/ http://www.podgodsnetwork.com/

Yeah, But it's a Dry Heat, Right? Don't try at home--eye-scraping dry eye! EW! This week! Beauty and the Beast. No, not this one Or this one This one! (sort of...) By the woman with the (that would be Jeanne Marie Le Prince de Beaumont). And, more on and Kohlberg...and . And, drum roll...the Faroese as it stands now... Soon, there will be an updated pic for that too. Thanks to Tina for reading this week and Joshua Christian who is my hero. The gorgeous Allison spindle from ! And an UPDATE on our ! Take a look at the GORGEOUS yarn Aimee in NJ has spun and dyed. These colors are amazing! And don't forget to visit beautiful Bisbeeland, Arizona! And an UPDATED update! (dateline--10/5/06). I finished the shawl. It was nothing but a pile of goo when I was done. Then I washed it and threaded my own do-it-yerself lace wire through it (18 guage picture wire) and WOW IS THAT SUCKER BIG!!! It's taking up the entire length of a twin-size bed. I'd seen other evidence of this on blogs, but to see it live and in person—it's a thing of beauty and a joy forever (or as long as it lasts, I guess...). Now if I can just dye it... If I can get my 6-year-old to hold the camera still enough I'll get a pic of it on. And an UPDATED update of my update (dateline 10-9-06): Thank you Heidi! How wonderful to get such an unexpected goodie box! I'm actually ditching my work today to read Spinning Designer Yarns while listening to "76 Trombones". You have no idea how much I needed that lift today. Thank you! Book talk begins at 15.08. Listen to 25 .