Podcast appearances and mentions of tyler tate

Drs. Hope Rugo, Sheri Brenner, and Mikolaj Slawkowski-Rode discuss the struggle that health care professionals experience when terminally ill patients are suffering and approaches to help clinicians understand and respond to suffering in a more patient-centered and therapeutic way. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Hope Rugo: Hello, and welcome to By the Book, a monthly podcast series from ASCO that features engaging conversations between editors and authors of the ASCO Educational Book.  I'm your host, Dr. Hope Rugo. I'm director of the Women's Cancers Program and division chief of breast medical oncology at the City of Hope Cancer Center, and I'm also the editor-in-chief of the Educational Book. On today's episode, we'll be exploring the complexities of grief and oncology and the struggle we experience as healthcare professionals when terminally ill patients are suffering. Our guests will discuss approaches to help clinicians understand and respond to suffering in a more patient-centered and therapeutic way, as outlined in their recently published article titled, “Oncology and Suffering: Strategies on Coping With Grief for Healthcare Professionals.” I'm delighted today to welcome Dr. Keri Brenner, a clinical associate professor of medicine, palliative care attending, and psychiatrist at Stanford University, and Dr. Mikołaj Sławkowski-Rode, a senior research fellow in philosophy in the Humanities Research Institute at the University of Buckingham, where he also serves as director of graduate research in p hilosophy. He is also a research fellow in philosophy at Blackfriars Hall at the University of Oxford and associate professor at the University of Warsaw.  Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode. Dr. Brenner and Dr. Sławkowski-Rode, thanks for being on the podcast today. Dr. Keri Brenner: Great to be here, Dr. Rugo. Thank you so much for that kind introduction. Dr. Mikołaj Sławkowski-Rode: Thank you very much, Dr. Rugo. It's a pleasure and an honor. Dr. Hope Rugo: So I'm going to start with some questions for both of you. I'll start with Dr. Brenner. You've spoken and written about the concept of suffering when there is no cure. For oncologists, what does it mean to attune to suffering, not just disease? And how might this impact the way they show up in difficult conversations with patients? Dr. Keri Brenner: Suffering is something that's so omnipresent in the work of clinical oncology, and I like to begin by just thinking about what is suffering, because it's a word that we use so commonly, and yet, it's important to know what we're talking about. I think about the definition of Eric Cassell, who was a beloved mentor of mine for decades, and he defined suffering as the state of severe distress that's associated with events that threaten the intactness of a person. And my colleague here at Stanford, Tyler Tate, has been working on a definition of suffering that encompasses the experience of a gap between how things are versus how things ought to be. Both of these definitions really touch upon suffering in a person-centered way that's relational about one's identity, meaning, autonomy, and connectedness with others. So these definitions alone remind us that suffering calls for a person-centered response, not the patient as a pathology, but the panoramic view of who the patient is as a person and their lived reality of illness. And in this light, the therapeutic alliance becomes one of our most active ingredients in care. The therapeutic alliance is that collaborative, trusting bond as persons that we have between clinician and patient, and it's actually one of the most powerful predictors of meaningful outcomes in our care, especially in oncologic care.  You know, I'll never forget my first day of internship at Massachusetts General Hospital. A faculty lecturer shared this really sage insight with us that left this indelible mark. She shared, “As physicians and healers, your very self is the primary instrument of healing. Our being is the median of the medicine.” So, our very selves as embodied, relationally grounded people, that's the median of the medicine and the first most enduring medicine that we offer. That has really borne fruit in the evidence that we see around the therapeutic alliance. And we see this in oncologic care, that in advanced cancer, a strong alliance with one's oncologist truly improves a patient's quality of life, treatment adherence, emotional well-being, and even surpasses structured interventions like psychotherapeutic interventions. Dr. Hope Rugo: That's just incredibly helpful information and actually terminology as well, and I think the concept of suffering differs so much. Suffering comes in many shapes and forms, and I think you really have highlighted that. But many oncologists struggle with knowing what to do when patients are suffering but can't be fixed, and I think a lot of times that has to do with oncologists when patients have pain or shortness of breath or issues like that. There are obviously many ways people suffer. But I think what's really challenging is how clinicians understand suffering and what the best approaches to respond to suffering are in the best patient-centered and therapeutic way. Dr. Keri Brenner: I get that question a lot from my trainees in palliative care, not knowing what to do. And my first response is, this is about how to be, not about knowing what to do, but how to be. In our medical training, we're trained often how to think and treat, but rarely how to be, how to accompany others. And I often have this image that I tell my trainees of, instead of this hierarchical approach of a fix-it mentality of all we're going to do, when it comes to elements of unavoidable loss, mortality, unavoidable sufferings, I imagine something more like accompaniment, a patient walking through some dark caverns, and I am accompanying them, trying to walk beside them, shining a light as a guide throughout that darkness. So it's a spirit of being and walking with. And it's so tempting in medicine to either avoid the suffering altogether or potentially overidentify with it, where the suffering just becomes so all-consuming like it's our own. And we're taught to instead strike a balance of authentic accompaniment through it. I often teach this key concept in my palli-psych work with my team about formulation. Formulation is a working hypothesis. It's taking a step back and asking, “Why? Why is this patient behaving in this manner? What might the patient's core inner struggle be?” Because asking that “why” and understanding the nuanced dimensions of a patient's core inner struggle will really help guide our therapeutic interactions and guide the way that we accompany them and where we choose to shine that light as we're walking with them. And oftentimes people think, “Well Keri, that sounds so sappy or oversentimental,” and it's not. You know, I'm just thinking about a case that I had a couple months ago, and it was a 28-year-old man with gastric cancer, metastatic disease, and that 28-year-old man, he was actually a college Division I athlete, and his dad was an acclaimed Division I coach. And our typical open-ended palliative care questions, that approach, infuriated them. They needed to know that I was showing up confident, competent, and that I was ready, on my A-game, with a real plan for them to follow through. And so my formulation about them was they needed somebody to show up with that confidence and competence, like the Division I athletes that they were, to really meet them and accompany them where they were on how they were going to walk through that experience of illness. Dr. Hope Rugo: These kinds of insights are so helpful to think about how we manage something that we face every day in oncology care. And I think that there are many ways to manage this.  Maybe I'll ask Dr. Sławkowski-Rode one question just that I think sequences nicely with what you're talking about.  A lot of our patients are trying to think about sort of the bigger picture and how that might help clinicians understand and support patients. So, the whole concept of spirituality, you know, how can we really use that as oncology clinicians to better understand and support patients with advanced illness, and how can that help patients themselves? And we'll talk about that in two different ways, but we'll just start with this broader question. Dr. Mikołaj Sławkowski-Rode: I think spirituality, and here, I usually refer to spirituality in terms of religious belief. Most people in the world are religious believers, and it is very intuitive and natural that religious beliefs would be a resource that people who help patients with a terminal diagnosis and healthcare professionals who work with those patients appeal to when they try to help them deal with the trauma and the stress of these situations.  Now, I think that the interesting thing there is that very often the benefit of appealing to a religious belief is misunderstood in terms of what it delivers. And there are many, many studies on how religious belief can be used to support therapy and to support patients in getting through the experience of suffering and defeating cancer or facing a terminal diagnosis. There's a wealth of literature on this. But most of the literature focuses on this idea that by appealing to religious belief, we help patients and healthcare practitioners who are working with them get over the fact and that there's a terminal diagnosis determining the course of someone's life and get on with our lives and engaging with whatever other pursuits we might have, with our job if we're healthcare practitioners, and with the other things that we might be passionate about in our lives. And the idea here is that this is what religion allows us to do because we sort of defer the need to worry about what's going to happen to us until the afterlife or some perspective beyond the horizon of our life here.  However, my view is – I have worked beyond philosophy also with theologians from many traditions, and my view here is that religion is something that does allow us to get on with our life but not because we're able to move on or move past the concerns that are being threatened by illness or death, but by forming stronger bonds with these things that we value in our life in a way and to have a sense of hope that these will be things that we will be able to keep an attachment to despite the threat to our life. So, in a sense, I think very many approaches in the field have the benefit of religion upside down, as it were, when it comes to helping patients and healthcare professionals who are engaged with their illness and treating it. Dr. Hope Rugo: You know, it's really interesting the points that you make, and I think really important, but, you know, sometimes the oncologists are really struggling with their own emotional reactions, how they are reacting to patients, and dealing with sort of taking on the burden, which, Dr. Brenner, you were mentioning earlier. How can oncologists be aware of their own emotional reactions? You know, they're struggling with this patient who they're very attached to who's dying or whatever the situation is, but you want to avoid burnout as an oncologist but also understand the patient's inner world and support them. Dr. Keri Brenner: I believe that these affective, emotional states, they're contagious. As we accompany patients through these tragic losses, it's very normal and expected that we ourselves will experience that full range of the human experience as we accompany the patients. And so the more that we can recognize that this is a normative dimension of our work, to have a nonjudgmental stance about the whole panoramic set of emotions that we'll experience as we accompany patients with curiosity and openness about that, the more sustainable the work will become. And I often think about the concept of countertransference given to us by Sigmund Freud over 100 years ago. Countertransference is the clinician's response to the patient, the thoughts, feelings, associations that come up within us, shaped by our own history, our own life events, those unconscious processes that come to the foreground as we are accompanying patients with illness. And that is a natural part of the human experience. Historically, countertransference was viewed as something negative, and now it's actually seen as a key that can unlock and enlighten the formulation about what might be going on within the patient themselves even. You know, I was with a patient a couple weeks ago, and I found myself feeling pretty helpless and hopeless in the encounter as I was trying to care for them. And I recognized that countertransference within myself that I was feeling demoralized. It was a prompt for me to take a step back, get on the balcony, and be curious about that because I normally don't feel helpless and hopeless caring for my patients. Well, ultimately, I discovered through processing it with my interdisciplinary team that the patient likely had demoralization as a clinical syndrome, and so it's natural many of us were feeling helpless and hopeless also accompanying them with their care. And it allowed us to have a greater interdisciplinary approach and a more therapeutic response and deeper empathy for the patient's plight. And we can really be curious about our countertransferences. You know, a few months ago, I was feeling bored and distracted in a family meeting, which is quite atypical for me when I'm sharing serious illness news. And it was actually a key that allowed me to recognize that the patient was trying to distract all of us talking about inconsequential facts and details rather than the gravitas of her illness.  Being curious about these affective states really allows us to have greater sustainability within our own practice because it normalizes that human spectrum of emotions and also allows us to reduce unconscious bias and have greater inclusivity with our practice because what Freud also said is that what we can't recognize and say within our own selves, if we don't have that self-reflective capacity, it will come out in what we do. So really recognizing and having the self-awareness and naming some of these emotions with trusted colleagues or even within our own selves allows us to ensure that it doesn't come out in aberrant behaviors like avoiding the patient, staving off that patient till the end of the day, or overtreating, offering more chemotherapy or not having the goals of care, doing everything possible when we know that that might result in medically ineffective care. Dr. Hope Rugo: Yeah, I love the comments that you made, sort of weaving in Freud, but also, I think the importance of talking to colleagues and to sharing some of these issues because I do think that oncologists suffer from the fact that no one else in your life wants to hear about dying people. They don't really want to hear about the tragic cases either. So, I think that using your community, your oncology community and greater community within medicine, is an important part of being able to sort of process. Dr. Keri Brenner: Yes, and Dr. Rugo, this came up in our ASCO [Education] Session. I'd love to double click into some of those ways that we can do this that aren't too time consuming in our everyday practice. You know, within palliative care, we have interdisciplinary rounds where we process complex cases. Some of us do case supervision with a trusted mentor or colleague where we bring complex cases to them. My team and I offer process rounds virtually where we go through countertransference, formulation, and therapeutic responses on some tough cases.  You know, on a personal note, just last week when I left a family meeting feeling really depleted and stuck, I called one of my trusted colleagues and just for 3 minutes constructively, sort of cathartically vented what was coming up within me after that family meeting, which allowed me to have more of an enlightened stance on what to do next and how to be therapeutically helpful for the case. One of my colleagues calls this "friend-tors." They coined the phrase, and they actually wrote a paper about it. Who within your peer group of trusted colleagues can you utilize and phone in real time or have process opportunities with to get a pulse check on where what's coming up within us as we're doing this work? Dr. Hope Rugo: Yeah, and it's an interesting question about how one does that and, you know, maintaining that as you move institutions or change places or become more senior, it's really important.  One of the, I think, the challenges sometimes is that we come from different places from our patients, and that can be an issue, I think when our patients are very religious and the provider is not, or the reverse, patients who don't have religious beliefs and you're trying to sort of focus on the spirituality, but it doesn't really ring true. So, Dr. Sławkowski-Rode, what resources can patients and practitioners draw on when they're facing death and loss in the absence of, or just different religious beliefs that don't fit into the standard model? Dr. Mikołaj Sławkowski-Rode: You're absolutely right that this can be an extremely problematic situation to be in when there is that disconnect of religious belief or more generally spiritual engagement with the situation that we're in. But I just wanted to tie into what Dr. Brenner was saying just before. I couldn't agree more, and I think that a lot of healthcare practitioners, oncologists in particular who I've had the pleasure to talk to at ASCO and at other events as well, are very often quite skeptical about emotional engagement in their profession. They feel as though this is something to be managed, as it were, and something that gets in the way. And they can often be very critical of methods that help them understand the emotions and extend them towards patients because they feel that this will be an obstacle to doing their job and potentially an obstacle also to helping patients to their full ability if they focus on their own emotions or the burden that emotionally, spiritually, and in other ways the illness is for the patient. They feel that they should be focusing on the cancer rather than on the patient's emotions. And I think that a useful comparison, although, you know, perhaps slightly drastic, is that of combat experience of soldiers. They also need to be up and running and can't be too emotionally invested in the situation that they're in. But there's a crucial difference, which is that soldiers are usually engaged in very short bursts of activity with the time to go back and rethink, and they often have a lot of support for this in between. Whereas doctors are in a profession where their exposure to the emotions of patients and their own emotions, the emotions of families of patients is constant. And I think that there's a great danger in thinking that this is something to be avoided and something to compartmentalize in order to avoid burnout. I think, in a way, burnout is more sure to happen if your emotions and your attachment to your patients goes ignored for too long. So that's just following up on Keri's absolutely excellent points. As far as the disconnect is concerned, that's, in fact, an area in which I'm particularly interested in. That's where my research comes in. I'm interested in the kinds of connections that we have with other people, especially in terms of maintaining bonds when there is no spiritual belief, no spiritual backdrop to support this connection. In most religious traditions, we have the framework of the religious belief that tells us that the person who we've lost or the values that have become undermined in our life are something that hasn't been destroyed permanently but something that we can still believe we have a deep connection to despite its absence from our life. And how do you rebuild that sense of the existence of the things that you have perceivably lost without the appeal to some sort of transcendent realm which is defined by a given religion? And that is a hard question. That's a question, I think, that can be answered partly by psychology but also partly by philosophy in terms of looking at who we are as human beings and our nature as people who are essentially, or as entities that are essentially connected to one another. That connection, I believe, is more direct than the mediation of religion might at first suggest. I think that we essentially share the world not only physically, it's not just the case that we're all here, but more importantly, the world that we live in is not just the physical world but the world of meanings and values that helps us orient ourselves in society and amongst one another as friends and foes. And it is that shared sense of the world that we can appeal to when we're thinking about retaining the value or retaining the connection with the people who we have lost or the people who are helping through, go through an experience of facing death. And just to finish, there's a very interesting question, I think, something that we possibly don't have time to explore, about the degree of connection that we have with other people. So, what I've just been saying is something that rings more true or is more intuitive when we think about the connections that we have to our closest ones. We share a similar outlook onto the world, and our preferences and our moods and our emotions and our values are shaped by life with the other person. And so, appealing to these values can give us a sense of a continued presence. But what in those relationships where the connection isn't that close? For example, given the topic of this podcast, the connection that a patient has with their doctor and vice versa. In what sense can we talk about a shared world of experience? Well, I think, obviously, we should admit degrees to the kind of relationship that can sustain our connection with another person. But at the same time, I don't think there's a clear cutoff point. And I think part of emotional engagement in medical practice is finding yourself somewhere on that spectrum rather than thinking you're completely off of it. That's what I would say. Dr. Hope Rugo: That's very helpful and I think a very helpful way of thinking about how to manage this challenging situation for all of us.  One of the things that really, I think, is a big question for all of us throughout our careers, is when to address the dying process and how to do that. Dr. Brenner, you know, I still struggle with this – what to do when patients refuse to discuss end-of-life but they're very close to end of life? They don't want to talk about it. It's very stressful for all of us, even where you're going to be, how you're going to manage this. They're just absolutely opposed to that discussion. How should we approach those kinds of discussions? How do we manage that? How do you address the code discussion, which is so important? You know, these patients are not able to stay at home at end-of-life in general, so you really do need to have a code discussion before you're admitting them. It actually ends up being kind of a challenge and a mess all around. You know, I would love your advice about how to manage those situations. Dr. Keri Brenner: I think that's one of the most piercing and relevant inquiries we have within our clinical work and challenges. I often think of denial not as an all-or-nothing concept but rather as parts of self. There's a part of everyone's being where the unconscious believes it's immortal and will live on forever, and yet we all know intellectually that we all have mortality and finitude and transience, and that time will end. We often think of this work as more iterative and gradual and exposure based. There's potency to words. Saying, “You are dying within days,” is a lot higher potency of a phrase to share than, “This is serious illness. This illness is incurable. Time might be shorter than we hoped.” And so the earlier and more upstream we begin to have these conversations, even in small, subtle ways, it starts to begin to expose the patient to the concept so they can go from the head to the heart, not only knowing their prognosis intellectually but also affectively, to integrate it into who they are as a person because all patients are trying to live well while also we're gradually exposing them to this awareness of mortality within their own lived experience of illness. And that, ideally, happens gradually over time. Now, there are moments where the medical frame is very limited, and we might have short days, and we have to uptitrate those words and really accompany them more radically through those high-affective moments. And that's when we have to take a lot of more nuanced approaches, but I would say the more earlier and upstream the better. And then the second piece to that question as well is coping with our own mortality. The more we can be comfortable with our own transience and finitude and limitations, the more we will be able to accompany others through that. And even within my own life, I've had to integrate losses in a way where before I go in to talk to one of my own palliative care patients, one mantra I often say to myself is, “I'm just a few steps behind you. I don't know if it's going to be 30 days or 30 years, but I'm just a few steps behind you on this finite, transient road of life that is the human experience.” And that creates a stance of accompaniment that patients really can experience as they're traversing these tragedies. Dr. Hope Rugo: That's great. And I think those are really important points and actually some pearls, which I think we can take into the clinic. I think being really concrete when really the expected life expectancy is a few days to a couple of weeks can be very, very helpful. And making sure the patients hear you, but also continuing to let them know that, as oncologists, we're here for them. We're not abandoning them. I think that's a big worry for many, certainly of my patients, is that somehow when they would go to hospice or be a ‘no code', that we're not going to support them anymore or treat them anymore. That is a really important process of that as well. And of course, engaging the team makes a big difference because the whole oncology team can help to manage situations that are particularly challenging like that. And just as we close, I wanted to ask one last question of you, Dr. Brenner, that suffering, grief, and burnout, you've really made the point that these are not problems to fix but dimensions that we want to attend to and acknowledge as part of our lives, the dying process is part of all of our lives. It's just dealing with this in the unexpected and the, I think, unpredictability of life, you know, that people take on a lot of guilt and all sorts of things about, all sorts of emotions. And the question is now, people have listened to this podcast, what can they take back to their oncology teams to build a culture that supports clinicians and their team at large to engage with these realities in a meaningful and sustainable way? I really feel like if we could build the whole team approach where we're supporting each other and supporting the patients together, that that will help this process immeasurably. Dr. Keri Brenner: Yes, and I'm thinking about Dr. Sławkowski-Rode's observation about the combat analogy, and it made me recognize this distinction between suppression and repression. Repression is this unconscious process, and this is what we're taught to do in medical training all the time, to just involuntarily shove that tragedy under the rug, just forget about it and see the next patient and move on. And we know that if we keep unconsciously shoving things under the rug, that it will lead to burnout and lack of sustainability for our clinical teams. Suppression is a more conscious process. That deliberate effort to say, “This was a tragedy that I bore witness to. I know I need to put that in a box on the shelf for now because I have 10 other patients I have to see.” And yet, do I work in a culture where I can take that off the shelf during particular moments and process it with my interdisciplinary team, phone a friend, talk to a trusted colleague, have some trusted case supervision around it, or process rounds around it, talk to my social worker? And I think the more that we model this type of self-reflective capacity as attendings, folks who have been in the field for decades, the more we create that ethos and culture that is sustainable because clinician self-reflection is never a weakness, rather it's a silent strength. Clinician self-reflection is this portal for wisdom, connectedness, sustainability, and ultimately transformative growth within ourselves. Dr. Hope Rugo: That's such a great point, and I think this whole discussion has been so helpful for me and I hope for our audience that we really can take these points and bring them to our practice. I think, “Wow, this is such a great conversation. I'd like to have the team as a whole listen to this as ways to sort of strategize talking about the process, our patients, and being supportive as a team, understanding how we manage spirituality when it connects and when it doesn't.” All of these points, they're bringing in how we process these issues and the whole idea of suppressing versus sort of deciding that it never happened at all is, I think, very important because that's just a tool for managing our daily lives, our busy clinics, and everything we manage. Dr. Keri Brenner: And Dr. Rugo, it's reminding me at Stanford, you know, we have this weekly practice that's just a ritual where every Friday morning for 30 minutes, our social worker leads a process rounds with us as a team, where we talk about how the work that we're doing clinically is affecting us in our lives in ways that have joy and greater meaning and connectedness and other ways that might be depleting. And that kind of authentic vulnerability with one another allows us to show up more authentically for our patients. So those rituals, that small 30 minutes once a week, goes a long way. And it reminds me that sometimes slowing things down with those rituals can really get us to more meaningful, transformative places ultimately. Dr. Hope Rugo: It's a great idea, and I think, you know, making time for that in everybody's busy days where they just don't have any time anymore is important. And you don't have to do it weekly, you could even do something monthly. I think there's a lot of options, and that's a great suggestion. I want to thank you both for taking your time out for this enriching and incredibly helpful conversation. Our listeners will find a link to the Ed Book article we discussed today, which is excellent, in the transcript of this episode. I want to thank you again, Dr. Brenner and Dr. Sławkowski-Rode, for your time and for your excellent thoughts and advice and direction. Dr. Mikołaj Sławkowski-Rode: Thank you very much, Dr. Rugo. Dr. Keri Brenner: Thank you. Dr. Hope Rugo: And thanks to our listeners for joining us today. Please join us again next month on By the Book for more insightful views on topics you'll be hearing at the education sessions from ASCO meetings and our deep dives on new approaches that are shaping modern oncology. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Follow today's speakers:      Dr. Hope Rugo @hope.rugo Dr. Keri Brenner @keri_brenner Dr. Mikolaj Slawkowski-Rode @MikolajRode Follow ASCO on social media:      @ASCO on X (formerly Twitter)      ASCO on Bluesky     ASCO on Facebook      ASCO on LinkedIn      Disclosures:     Dr. Hope Rugo: Honoraria: Mylan/Viatris, Chugai Pharma Consulting/Advisory Role: Napo Pharmaceuticals, Sanofi, Bristol Myer Research Funding (Inst.): OBI Pharma, Pfizer, Novartis, Lilly, Merck, Daiichi Sankyo, AstraZeneca, Gilead Sciences, Hoffman La-Roche AG/Genentech, In., Stemline Therapeutics, Ambryx Dr. Keri Brenner: No relationships to disclose Dr. Mikolaj Slawkowski-Rode: No relationships to disclose    

Season 5 Episode 14 is live and in this episode continues to follow our new structure (for the most part) including the following segments:Metalcore Spring Break Tour Recap: For this episode, we discuss our experience attending the Metalcore Spring Break Tour which included the bands Acres, Kingdom of Giants, ERRA, and The Devil Wears Prada.  Coaches Corner: This segment features health and wellness information/tips to help you meet your goals. This week, we discuss the ultimate shoulder and arm workout to prep you to look your best in a sleeveless shirt this summer. We dive into warmups, exercises, volume, etc. Song of the Week: We select a new metalcore song each week to highlight/share with you all. This week's song of the week is "Protohuman" by Dal Av ft. Tyler Tate from Hollow Front. Exercise of the Week: We select an exercise to highlight, describing the exercise, alternative exercises, muscles targeted, pros & cons, optimal volume, and more. This week we discuss the straight arm lat pulldown.  If you enjoyed the episode or are a supporter of the podcast, let us know by leaving a positive review! Follow us on Instagram @mc_muscle!

Recorded 11-24-24 Pastors Larry and Jason, Tyler Tate, and Danny Griffin lead the congregation with two songs reminding the church of the importance of pressing on in the faith. "The Meeting in The Air," and "Keep on the Firing Line." Pastor Larry G. Stephens brings the final sermon in the Acts sermon series entitled, "Proclaim Christ with Boldness and Freedom." The two truths Pastor Larry challenged the church are: I. Proclaim Christ with Boldness, Even as You  Are Chained to This World II. Proclaim Christ with Boldness and Freedom,  Even When You Think People Are Not Listening

Jay Miller welcomes Joseph Clair and Tyler Tate, co-authors of the recent article entitled "Love Your Patient as Yourself: On Reviving the Broken Heart of American Medical Ethics" (see below for the full text). The trio digs into the difficulty of medical ethics in a cultural moment during which human beings are commonly seen as advanced chemical machines--and nothing more. Why are so many medical professionals burning out? What is the real motivator behind so many doctors' initial drive to care for their patients? How do we get back to the task of healing people, not just fixing bodies?If you enjoy listening to the George Fox Talks podcast and would like to watch, too, check out our channel on YouTube! We also have a web page that features all of our podcasts, a sign-up for our weekly email update, and publications from the George Fox University community.

We were very fortunate to have Tyler Tate from Hollow Front on the podcast to talk about their new album, "The Fear Of Letting Go". Enjoy! Hollow Front Socials: Twitter: https://twitter.com/hollowfrontband Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollowfront/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hollowfront TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hollowfrontband YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAdjQL8tTLHLPOwfJLD7mGg Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/hollow-front/1204962688 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/50YmW8f4U5IxTIwYI9mGAe Merch: https://hollowfrontmerch.com/ Good Noise Podcast Socials: Twitter: https://twitter.com/good_noise_cast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goodnoisepodcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/goodnoisepod Discord: https://discord.gg/nDAQKwT YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFHKPdUxxe1MaGNWoFtjoJA Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/04IMtdIrCIvbIr7g6ttZHi All other streaming platforms: http://hyperurl.co/GoodNoisePodcast Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/goodnoisepodcast Bandcamp: https://goodnoiserecords.bandcamp.com/

Welcome to a brand new episode of Ian's Untitled Scene Show! In this episode, my special guest is Tyler Tate of Hollow Front!It wouldn't give Hollow Front enough credit to say they've had a tough couple of years. From a significant van accident to a resulting lawsuit and multiple members leaving the band, Tyler and Hollow Front have not had an easy go of it. But Hollow Front has persevered and perhaps released their best album in ‘The Fear Of Letting Go' through UNFD Records!Tyler, one of the two remaining members of Hollow Front and the lead vocalist, talks about everything Hollow Front, the new album, the scene, and what he sees in the future. This is an open conversation I think you'll all enjoy and learn from

Chapter 439 - "It's Our Project and Our Lives" ...as read by Tyler Tate of Hollow FrontToday we welcome Hollow Front frontman Tyler Tate to the podcast. Hollow Front released The Fear of Letting Go back on October 27th on UNFD Records. Tyler talks about the origins of Hollow Front, the band's struggles over the last two years, creating music as a two piece, the lyrical themes on The Fear of Letting Go, and more!https://hollowfrontmerch.com/Grab The Fear Of Letting Go on vinyl hereOr digitally herehttps://asthestorygrows.substack.com/https://www.patreon.com/asthestorygrowsDiscordChapter 439 Music:Hollow Front - "The Fear Of"Hollow Front - "We're All Left Suffering"Hollow Front - "Letting Go"Email: asthestorygrows@gmail.com

Recorded October 29th 2023: Tyler Tate brings a reading of Johnathan Edwards' 1741 sermon, "Sinners In The Hands of An Angry God." This historic sermon is a reminder of the grace of God and the wrath He has towards sin and sinfulness.     

Loki Season 2 continues with it's second episode. Loki and Mobius fight against time to find Sylvie and save the TVA and the multiverse from destruction. Tyler Tate of Hollow Front returns to the show chat about their new album The Fear Of Letting Go coming out October 27th on UNFD, Loki and the MCU as a whole, Avengers: Secret Wars hype, The Boys spin-off Gen V, Queer Eye + Sean & Tyler pitch their new idea for a Metalcore Shark Tank TV show.EARGASM Use the code METALCORENERDS to save 10% off your order. Protect your hearing while still enjoying the music you love.Support Hollow Front!Pre-Order | Instagram | Twitter Buy Metalcore Nerds MerchSong of the Week: Hollow Front "Breaking Teeth"Check out the Metalcore Nerds Pull List Spotify PlaylistJoin the Metalcore Nerds Community:Discord | FB GroupFollow Metalcore Nerds on Social Media:Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube | TikTokThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5501198/advertisement

How do you respond in life when it seems like your world is crashing down around you, and there is no visible end in sight?Do you give up, pack it up, and call it a day? Or do you work through those moments of adversity, and come out the other side stronger than you ever thought possible?It is our honor to have Tyler Tate from Hollow Front back on the podcast once again. With the release of the band's 3rd album, The Fear of Letting Go, releasing on October 27th, we dive into:Everything that has happened with the band since the van crash of 2022, losing Dakota and Brandon as band members, and how Tyler almost gave up as well.How the band is operating as a 2 piece between Tyler and Lee, and how the new album was constructed with this new dynamic.Diving deep into the album's themes around the van crash and aftermath, Tyler's relationship with his mother on Over the Cradle, and analyzing Tyler's clean singing.A fantastic episode to embrace Hollow Front with. If you want more like this, hit that subscribe button and JOIN US!Find Hollow Front Online:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hollowfrontTwitter: https://twitter.com/hollowfrontbandInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollowfront/Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hollowfrontbandYouTube: https://youtu.be/a_Lkr9UU0FU?si=o6MFjornJO8pqk2gWebsite: https://unfdcentral.com/artists/hollow-front/Merch: https://hollowfrontmerch.comSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/50YmW8f4U5IxTIwYI9mGAe?si=pTj03DrNRpe5_Mx7nZ26MQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/hollow-front/1204962688Check out our sponsor: DarkFusion Systems!Use code "CPPOD" for $100 off of your order!https://darkfusionsystems.comFollow us on social media!Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/chordprogressionpodcastTwitter:https://twitter.com/cppodofficialInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/chordprogressionpodcast/YouTube:https://youtube.com/channel/UCqRKZCDMcFHIYbJaLQMfDbQChord Progression Podcast (Spotify):https://open.spotify.com/show/53XWPGrIUvgavKF5Fm6SLkChord Progression Podcast (Apple Podcast):https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chord-progression-podcast-the-gateway-to-new-rock-and-metal-music/id1454876657Chord Progression Podcast (Amazon): https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b8dad803-444c-4a73-8aa5-67b4fc43f4baChord Progression Podcast (iHeart Radio):https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-chord-progression-70632531/Podcast Webpage:https://mysongoftheday.com/my-song-of-the-day-rock-2000-today/chord-progression-podcast/Welcome: (0:00)What Happened to Hollow Front Since the Van Crash?: (1:00)Brendan & Dakota Always a Part of Hollow Front: (11:10)Writing as a 2 Piece, Reflecting on Post-Crash Life: (13:44)Over the Cradle & Tyler's Relationship with his Mom:(22:19)Mixing Between Heavy & Melodic Tracks on New Album: (32:59)Most Proud of Tyler's Singing on New Album: (40:56)Comparing The Price of Dreaming to The Fear of Letting Go: (43:25)Fan Questions about New Members & Work/Life Balance: (44:09)Tyler's 3 Bands to Check Out: (52:53)Kevin's Final Thought; The Perfect Album for Getting Through the Adversity of Life: (58:17)

Tyler Tate, Head Coach, Fort Lauderdale Dillard

During the past decade as a professional artist, Justin Tyler Tate has exhibited more than 100 projects in 20 countries and four continents. His practice merges various artistic fields to find solutions to contemporary problems. Tate is the 2022 Moab Arts Re-Use Resident, where he will explore the intersection of art, community and waste systems, engaging Moab locals in the process. Learn more on the latest Art Talks! // Show Notes: // Moab Arts Re-Use Residency https://www.moabarts.org/residency // Justin Tyler Tate https://justintylertate.weebly.com //Music in Today's Episode ‘Swinging Sofas' by Lobo Loco

We've been radio silent the past couple of weeks and for that, we apologize. But hey, we're back! This week we got an awesome interview with Tyler Tate of the band Hollow Front. Dave goes solo on this one and talks to Tyler about the making of their new album "The Price of Dreaming", talk about his preferred gas station cuisine, and goes on at length about Harry Potter. Hope you guys enjoy it!Support The Show: patreon.com/bitterheartspod

When one is dealing with the often misunderstood after effects of depression, it's really easy to fall into a hole so deep, it's very hard to escape. Some never do, while some not only survive, but write music around the experience as a way towards catharsis, and also to help those who might hear the story and recognize themselves in the middle of the same tragedies.Tyler Tate, the dynamic front man for the powerful Hollow Front, was my guest on our show today and I loved every minute of our time together because he never shied away from the very issues that give him power today. Tyler has made it and he admits he's a work in progress. He's doing it in front of us, and that is some seriously legendary behavior.Let's not give anything away. You need to listen to Tyler's story today and be all the better for it. This is Tyler Tate of Michigan's Hollow Front and this is Rockstar Superhero.Time Codes:2:20 Being inspired by transparency5:50 Diving into the question pool9:00 Back and forth from Grand Rapids12:40 Depression and helpful programs13:00 The desire to turn away16:40 Playing shows and chasing dreams20:30 Making the sacrifice to play music24:40 Kids come first28:00 Politics in music31:40 Listening to the new record35:30 Violent loss and sadness39:20 Making smart production choices43:50 Willingness to share more about mental health48:00 Building lyrics around the melodies52:10 Being needed and loved55:55 The stage version of a personHOLLOW FRONT ARE:Tyler Tate — VocalsDakota Alvarez — Vocals + GuitarLee Albrecht —GuitarDevin Attard — DrumsBrandon Rummler — BassSubscribe to both shows here: https://bit.ly/3airCvhWanna be on the show? Go here: https://calendly.com/rockstarsuperheroThe Rockstar Superhero Podcast examines the personal lives and creative careers of your favorite classic rock artists. We are obsessed with understanding the inner workings of the music business and all that it takes to remain in the public eye for as long as possible. Join us as we pursue conversations with legends and legends in the making.The Rockstar Superhero Radicals podcast was created to connect you directly to people, professional and private, who have lived lives worth discussing and offer solutions to our listeners, one heart at a time. If you are seeking truth and purpose beyond yourself, the Radicals podcast is for you.Copyright 2022 Rockstar Superhero Podcast - All Rights ReservedBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/rockstar-superhero--4792050/support.

We were very fortunate to have Tyler Tate from Hollow Front on the podcast to talk about their new album, "The Price of Dreaming". Enjoy! Hollow Front Socials: Twitter: https://twitter.com/hollowfrontband Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollowfront/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hollowfront YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAdjQL8tTLHLPOwfJLD7mGg Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/hollow-front/1204962688 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/50YmW8f4U5IxTIwYI9mGAe Merch: https://hollowfrontmerch.com/ Good Noise Podcast Socials: Twitter: https://twitter.com/good_noise_cast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goodnoisepodcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/goodnoisepod Discord: https://discord.gg/nDAQKwT YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFHKPdUxxe1MaGNWoFtjoJA Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/04IMtdIrCIvbIr7g6ttZHi All other streaming platforms: http://hyperurl.co/GoodNoisePodcast Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/goodnoisepodcast Bandcamp: https://goodnoiserecords.bandcamp.com/

Metalcore uprising outfit Hollow Front have big things planned for the future. The Michigan-based band are on the verge of dropping their highly-anticipated 2nd album “The Price Of Dreaming” towards the beginning of Summer. Frontman Tyler Tate joins IUF to discuss the path the band has been on since their inception in 2016. From sharing the stages with other notable bands like Fit For A King, Comeback Kid, and We Came As Romans, to maintaining a strong relationship with growing music label in UNFD – Tyler takes a moment to appreciate on where he and his bandmates are at this point in their young careers.The success however, did not come without the trials and setbacks. There's a recipe for humbleness, and Hollow Front has all the learning tools they need to move forward. Exciting times are now on the horizon for this crew, tune in to our conversation now and be sure to buy and stream “The Price Of Dreaming” due out May 27 via UNFD.Stay connected with Hollow Front, visit: https://hollowfrontmerch.com/, https://www.facebook.com/hollowfront, and https://www.instagram.com/hollowfront/Stay connected with IUF, visit: https://interviewunderfire.com/

Hello, my friends! I have had the honor of having a conversation with Tyler Tate who is the front man of the band Hollow Front! Tyler and I talk about video games, Mental health, their new album 'The Price of Dreaming' and so much more! Thank you all so much for your ongoing support and I hope you enjoy the show! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

In this episode we have a conversation with Tyler Tate of Hollow Front. I had a great time talking with him about all kinds of stuff including; their new music, their upcoming album “The Price Of Dreaming” out 5/27 via UNFD and more!Follow Hollow Front:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hollowfrontInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/hollowfrontMerch: https://hollowfrontmerch.com/

Tyler joins me to catch up since the last time he and his band were on the show, about 3-3.5 years ago, and how much has changed for the band in that time. We talk about getting to tour with some of your favorite bands, how it was doing one of their first "big boy" tours and in a pandemic no less. The growing pains of finding your way through being a local band to being a nationally touring band, and really trying to be in the moment and taking advantage of the opportunities they have. Tyler also opens up about how he deals with fans coming up to him and telling him what his lyrics mean to him. We also look back on our first chat and how nervous he was for their song "Still Life" to come out and the newer direction the bands sound and his vocals were going, and how that was a turning point for the band. We also get into the way we've kinda paralleled our successes in this industry, both being from the same city, and how we've dealt with some of the naysayers and more. Intro Music: “Remember “This Night” (Podcast Edit) by Chae Hawk "Pretty Lights" by Heartsick Show Sponsors: Rockabilia (www.rockabilia.com) USE OUR CODE BREWTALLY AND GET 10% OFF YOUR TOTAL ORDER!! The Bean Bastard (www.thebeanbastard.com) On Point Pomade (www.onpointpomade.com) USE OUR CODE BSP15 AND GET 15% OFF YOUR TOTAL ORDER!! Links: Facebook: www.facebook.com/hollowfront www.facebook.com/rockabliacom www.facebook.com/onpointpomade www.facebook.com/thebeanbastard www.facebook.com/brewspeakpod Instagram: @tylertate_hf, @hollowfront, @onpointpomade, @beanbastard, @brewspeakpod, @jbeatty616 Twitter: @hollowfrontband, @onpointpomade, @bean_bastard, @rockabilia, @brewspeakpod, @jbeatty616 Website: www.brewspeakpod.com Patreon: www.patreon.com/brewspeakpod Email: Brewtallyspeaking@gmail.com RATE/REVIEW/SUBSCRIBE!!! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/brewspeakpod/support

Sean is joined by Tyler Tate of Hollow front to talk about all the Marvel news from Disney+ Day & everything Eternals!Buy the new Metalcore Mephisto T-Shirt: https://www.metalcorenerds.comCheck out the Metalcore Nerds Pull List Spotify Playlist: https://spoti.fi/3zjYw8pJoin the Metalcore Nerds Community:Discord: https://discord.gg/3vT9humfcGFB Group: https://bit.ly/3zZrlbDFollow Metalcore Nerds on Social Media:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/metalcorenerdsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/metalcorenerds​Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetalcoreNerds​Twitch: https://twitch.tv/metalcorenerdsSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/metalcore-nerds/exclusive-content

Tyler Tate, Head Coach, Dillard See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey! On today's episode we sit down front of the band Hollow Front, Tyler Tate! We talk about his start in music, how he developed over the course of several bands, the formation and progression of Hollow Front, their upcoming plans, and more! You can listen to Hollow Front here: https://open.spotify.com/artist/50YmW8f4U5IxTIwYI9mGAe Make sure to see them on their upcoming tour with We Came As Romans. Email danny.brueck.shows@gmail.com with any comments, questions, or suggestions. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. You can follow us on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/whatsupwithdanny Follow us on Instagram @whatsupwithdannypodcast. This podcast was edited by Andrew Castonia. Cover art by Kameron Chauvez. Enjoy! 

Tyler Tate is the frontman for the band Hollow Front. Follow Tyler on Instagram Stream Hollow Front --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/trueshot-guest-spot/support

Tyler Tate - Head Coach Dillard  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Fort Lauderdale Dillard High Head Coach Tyler Tate talks about returning home and rebuilding his program young. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we are joined by Tyler Tate of Hollow Front. They are managed by our very own Ryan Kirby and just released a new album "loose threads". Its one of my favorites this year and we have a great time breaking it down.

Today, we will be talking with Miramar High School Football Coach, Mr. AJ Scott, and Dillard High School Football Coach, Mr. Tyler Tate, about how to address social media and parents of incoming freshman. I will also address how COVID-19 has affected the players and their ability to obtain a college scholarship. In the second hour, we will be talking about of effects of COVID-19 on the NBA, NFL, and MLB. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/cornelius-pressley/support

EPISODE # 32 Here's my conversation with: Tyler Tate | Vocalist HOLLOW FRONT

In this episode, Tyler Tate (Hollow Front) and I talk about being an independent band with over 3M spotify listeners. He tells me their story and how they started working with Ryan Kirby (Fit For a King). --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/MusicHustlers/support

Albie talks to Tyler Tate from the band Hollow Front. Sponsor: Sound Of Hope Recordings Guest: https://www.facebook.com/HollowFrontGR/ https://hollowfrontmerch.bigcartel.com

Are you in need of rescuing? Do you actually want to be rescued? God wants to rescue but you have to be willing to let him? Tyler Tate shares how God can rescue you from any circumstance as long as you're willing.

For some of the larger historic buildings out there, it can take a number of craftspeople and specialists to properly restore and preserve them. But few have the knowledge and ability to organize stone masons, window craftsmen, and countless other trade specialists who may otherwise be used to working independently. One of those few is with us today; Tyler Tate is the President of Lewis Contractors, a construction company that partially specializes in historic institutional buildings. Tyler spoke with Nick about details of some of the many unique projects his company has been involved in, like the Washington Monument in Baltimore, the Brice House in Annapolis, and more. We won’t try to ~build~ anticipation any longer, this is PreserveCast! Listen here: https://www.preservecast.org/2018/04/23/big-picture-preservation-tyler-tate-lewis-contractors/

We live in a city of highly educated and astute thinkers, yet there still seem to be certain elusive ideas that even the best minds continually struggle to grasp. At "The Bear & the Butterfly Forum" we will highlight one such beautiful, yet elusive, idea and openly grapple with it from perspectives of faith, science, and philosophy. On Sunday, June 4th, a Bioethicist & Pediatrician, Dr. Tyler Tate, and Pastor David Evanger will lead a discussion on Suffering in the 21st Century. Dr. Tate has written extensively on the subject and is about to begin a Fellowship in Palliative Care to focus more on the science and medicine of alleviating suffering within the medical field. All are welcome to join us for this interactive forum where we use faith, science and philosophy to try to shed light a little light on one of the most challenging parts of our shared human experience.

Tyler Tate. He’s the CEO of Crema.co, the coffee market place. Previously, he co-founded TwigKit, which is an enterprise search software and was the first design lead at Nutshell, which is a SaaS CRM platform. In each case, he used product strategy and design thinking to play its part in envisioning, designing and building products from the ground up. He’s also co-authored the book called Designing the Search Experience which Morgan Kaufmann published in 2013. He’s spoken at numerous conferences. While at TwigKit, he consulted for organizations such as The Financial Times, Thomson-Reuters, Qualcomm, Vodafone, ITV, Rolls-Royce, BASF and Gemalto, helping them design search-driven applications. He’s originally from Alabama, went to University of Kentucky, and spent 7 years in UK. He’s also lived in Seattle and currently resides in the San Francisco Bay area. Famous Five: Favorite Book? – Tyler prefers reading blogs at the moment What CEO do you follow? – Michael Dubin Favorite online tool? — Trello Do you get 8 hours of sleep?— 7 If you could let your 20-year old self, know one thing, what would it be? – Tyler wished he realized earlier how important a network is   Time Stamped Show Notes: 01:35 – Nathan introduces Tyler to the show 02:41 – In TwigKit, Tyler was selling an expensive software product to large companies 03:00 – Tyler learned that he’d rather do something that is more marketing-driven than sales-driven—something that is more consumer-driven than enterprise 03:14 – Tyler’s realization in switching to a coffee company from a SaaS business 03:28 – At Nutshell, Tyler was the first design hire 03:33 – Nutshell has 3 founders and a CTO 03:53 – Tyler, together with the whole team, was able to build something from the ground up 04:01 – Tyler had some equity in the business 04:38 – Tyler had put in $15K to Crema 05:05 – Tyler sold his equities back to TwigKit and Nutshell 06:03 – Tyler started working with Crema early 2015 06:08 – Tyler did a Kickstarter campaign and made $25K 06:19 – Tyler closed and had an Angel round 06:25 – A total of $325K was raised and $150K came from 500 startups 06:48 – 500 startups had a deal of $150K for 6% which is a standard deal 07:21 – Crema is a marketplace for coffee drinkers to subscribe to roast-to-order beans 07:35 – Crema has a platform fee on every order 07:43 – When you buy $18 worth of coffee, Crema takes a $9 platform fee and the other $9 goes to the roaster 07:58 – The price that you pay is almost similar to retail price and the roaster price is above their typical wholesale price 08:15 – The total price includes shipping and other fees 09:00 – $9 is a flat fee no matter the order size 09:46 – Crema’s concept is a single-origin emphasis 10:12 – Crema does the co-production for the roasters 10:24 – Crema has a storytelling team that write journalistic write-ups for their website 10:43 – Team size 11:06 – Crema currently has 15 roasters 11:11 – With a total of 60 types of coffee beans 11:27 – Crema had 750 customers in  January 2017 11:30 – Generated $17K  on the platform 11:44 – Crema’s growth is 28% month over month 11:48 – “We’re targeting something like 10x growth” 12:07 – Crema’s growth metric is based on GMV and revenue 13:55 – Average cart value is $17 for a typical purchase 14:08 – Each box of coffee is shipped individually 14:43 – A customer spends an average of $23 a month on the website 15:05 – Crema started in Kickstarter in October 15:13 – Crema has been generating organic traffic since then 15:48 – Crema has spent $5K for Facebook paid ads 16:06 – CAC is around $20-25 to convert website visitors to subscribers 17:02 – Crema ran surveys about people’s coffee drinking preferences 17:29 – Crema had sample packs for new customers allowing them to try 4 different types of coffee 20:15 – The Famous Five   3 Key Points: Shifting from B2B to B2C is a breeze when you really know who you want to target. Great storytelling can engage consumers and connect them to the product. Do not hesitate to meet people, move around, and build a network for yourself.   Resources Mentioned: The Top Inbox  – The site Nathan uses to schedule emails to be sent later, set reminders in inbox, track opens, and follow-up with email sequences Organifi – The juice was Nathan’s life saver during his trip in Southeast Asia Klipfolio – Track your business performance across all departments for FREE Acuity Scheduling – Nathan uses Acuity to schedule his podcast interviews and appointments Host Gator – The site Nathan uses to buy his domain names and hosting for the cheapest price possible Audible – Nathan uses Audible when he’s driving from Austin to San Antonio (1.5-hour drive) to listen to audio books Freshbooks – Nathan doesn’t waste time so he uses Freshbooks to send out invoices and collect his money. Get your free month NOW Show Notes provided by Mallard Creatives