Decrypted Unscripted

Dr. George Bonanno, professor of psychology at Columbia University and head of the Loss, Trauma, and Emotion Lab, joins us to challenge everything you think you know about trauma and resilience.George shares how his unconventional path—from a troubled youth to working with mentally ill adults—led him to Yale and into a career studying how people respond to loss and extreme stress.His research shows that most people are more resilient than commonly believed, bouncing back from hardship without developing long-term trauma.In this conversation, we dig into why PTSD is often misunderstood, how flexibility (not stoicism) is the real marker of resilience, and why popular traits like “grit” or “toughness” don't always predict who copes well.George also discusses effective PTSD treatments—from exposure therapy to psychedelics—and how laughter, reappraisal, and even “coping ugly” can be surprisingly powerful tools in recovery.Whether you're dealing with loss, supporting someone through a tough time, or just trying to understand what real resilience looks like, this episode brings deep insight backed by decades of research.

Melissa Fortunato, a retired FBI special agent with over two decades of service, joins us to unpack what undercover operations and hostage negotiations can teach us about persuasion, human behavior, and trust-building—both in crisis and in daily life.Melissa shares how her background in psychology and counseling shaped her FBI career, taking her from a rape crisis center to undercover roles and high-stakes international negotiations. Walking us through jaw-dropping undercover assignments and negotiations, she describes posing as a bride-to-be in a fake wedding used to arrest international arms dealers and negotiating with the Taliban where the first offer (not hers) was “$30,000 and a goat.” Melissa explains why likability and emotional control are critical assets in any negotiation. She also discusses the differences and overlaps between the FBI and Harvard negotiation frameworks, and why understanding your own emotional triggers is the first step toward influencing others. She reflects on the power of empathy and connection in building rapport, whether it's with organized crime figures or colleagues on a SWAT team.Whether you're navigating tough business conversations, managing conflict at work, or just trying to get your teenager to do their homework, Melissa's insights are sharp, surprising, and grounded in real-world experience.

Scott Tillema, co-founder of The Negotiations Collective and veteran hostage negotiator, joins us to share what crisis negotiations can teach us about influence, emotional control, and communication under pressure.He explains how a curiosity about human behavior led him into law enforcement and how he ultimately trained to handle life-or-death situations on a SWAT team. Scott reveals how empathy, timing, and strong listening skills help de-escalate tense encounters—and why those same skills are essential in business and everyday life.Scott also shares his four-part communication framework featured in his viral TEDx talk and walks us through how he applies negotiation strategies in both high-stakes scenarios and corporate boardrooms. Whether you're a lawyer, a leader, or just someone navigating tough conversations, Scott's practical tools can help you become more persuasive and grounded.

In this episode, Joe Navarro, former FBI special agent and expert in nonverbal communication, shares insights from his unique background. He discusses how his early life in Cuba shaped his understanding of body language and the transition from intuitive observations to structured analysis. Navarro explores the critical role of body language in interviews, negotiations, and daily interactions, offering practical advice to enhance persuasive communication. He delves into cultural sensitivities, individual differences, and the psychology of first impressions and empathy, drawing from his experiences with high-stakes negotiations. Joe also examines the limitations of virtual communication, contrasting it with the evolutionary advantages of face-to-face interactions.

In this conversation, Jeremy Hurewitz shares his unique journey from journalism to corporate security and describes how his experiences have shaped his understanding of persuasion and influence. He discusses his regular work with lawyers and law firms, explores the importance of active listening, radical empathy, and elicitation in sales, and introduces his “Crawl, Walk, Run” strategy for building client relationships.Jeremy emphasizes that both introverts and extroverts can excel in making connections. He tells us how personal passions can enhance connections and delves into behavioral science's role in sales and negotiation, offering strategies for de-escalating emotionally charged situations. Our discussion also touches on negotiation tactics in global conflicts, emphasizing the need for emotional intelligence and relationship building in professional settings.

Our guest this week, John Blumberg, author of Persuasion Science for Trial Lawyers, describes how he incorporates developments in psychology, behavioral economics and decision making science into trial presentations.  He describes why information is accepted or rejected by jurors and how decisions by juries can be affected by cognitive overload, mental shortcuts, and biases. He emphasizes the importance of presenting information simply and empowering juries to make their own decisions in an advocates framework, rather avoiding telling jurors what to think in court. John also discusses the concept of false memories and the impact of preconceived beliefs on jury decisions and shares the top three tactics lawyers can use to be more persuasive.

Prof. John Dowling joins us on The Persuasion Occasion to discuss the science of memory and learning. We explore the mechanisms of neurotransmission and modulation in the brain and how long-term memories are formed through biochemical changes in the brain. John dives into the creative and reconstructive nature of memory, the role of attention and emotions in perception and memory, and the creative limitations of AI.

Pat Pattison, a professor at Berklee College of Music, joins us this week to discuss the transformative impact of music and share insights on writing song lyrics, including structure, emotional tone, and intentionality. We discuss the significance of metaphor and authenticity in creating a cohesive and effective song. Pat also shares stories about his life in music, including jamming with the Doobie Brothers and Beach Boys, and discusses various songwriting techniques and trends, including Taylor Swift's fast writing style.

In part two with Jason Blume, we delve into the elements of a successful and persuasive song. Jason shares invaluable insights and practical advice that can translate from songwriting to any arena. Jason emphasizes that while good songs are plentiful, what sets successful ones apart is their unique angle and fresh approach. He also touches on the importance of song structure, explaining that most hit songs follow a few familiar structures as do persuasive arguments, necessary for effectively communicating a message to listeners.

Jason Blume joins us this week to share his struggles, challenges, and successes in Negotiation in the music industry. He emphasizes the importance of persistence, networking, and collaboration. He discusses the interplay between creativity and business in songwriting, highlighting the need for songwriters to understand both aspects of the industry. We also dig into the key elements of persuasive songwriting, such as melody, repetition, and relatable lyrics.   Jason Blume is a songwriter with more than 50 million album sales. He has had singles on Billboard's Pop, Country, and R&B charts, and his songs have been recorded by artists including Britney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, the Oak Ridge Boys, K-Pop & J-Pop artists.  He composed the background score and songs for an Emmy-winning TV show, and his songs have been heard in top TV shows and movies.     “We have to put ourselves in the position to tip the scales in our favor to get lucky.” - Jason Blume  This week on The Persuasion Ocassion: How Jason found success writing for others after his initial aspirations to be a superstar artist failed Jason shares his journey from a temp agency to an A&R department at RCA Records in the 80s. How it felt to write over 1000 songs in 11 years and have them  all rejected by publishers How Jason negotiated a life-changing deal that got  him a staff writing deal at a music publishing company Jason shares his experience of hearing iconic country songs and cowriting a potential hit with a professional writer in Nashville. How Jason's life changed when the Oak Ridge Boys recorded their song Why he decided to go on Wheel of Fortune and some of the research he put in to make sure that he was lucky on the show Why Jason chose to sign with a company that had a record label and worldwide offices despite them making him a lower financial offer Why the quality of the song is crucial for success in the music industry, but so is the ability to navigate the business side of thingsJason discusses songwriting techniques, including repetition and using a hook to make a song memorableWhy Jason believes AI can be a useful tool for generating effective titles, as he found with his second Britney Spears recording  Connect with Jason Blume: Jason Blume  Connect with David and Jasmine: David T. Biderman at Perkins Coie  Jasmine Wetherell at Perkins Coie   

On this show, Dan Ariely, Duke University professor and noted author, discusses behavioral psychology and persuasion, the dangers of misbelief, and the growing phenomenon of identity polarization in the digital age. Dan shares how misbelief can lead to a distorted view of reality, where everything is seen through the lens of a particular belief or perspective. We also dive into the significance of clear and concise communication in legal settings and the importance of navigating difficult conversations with empathy and respect. Dan is the James B. Duke Professor of Psychology & Behavioral Economics at Duke University and founded the Center for Advanced Hindsight. Dan also co-created the film documentary (Dis)Honesty: The Truth About Lies and wrote three-time New York Times bestsellers: Predictably Irrational, The Upside of Irrationality, and The Honest Truth About Dishonesty. His latest book, Misbelief: What Makes Rational People Believe Irrational Things, discusses the distorted lens through which people begin to view the world, reason about the world, and then describe the world to others.  “When we are stressed, we need  a story with a villain - and that story gives us a sense of control.” - Dan Ariely This week on The Persuasion Ocassion: How misinformation spreads and affects trust in societyWhy misbelief can lead to a distorted view of reality, where everything is seen through the lens of a particular belief or perspectiveDan explains how stress can lead to misbeliefs and a desire for controlWhy we have low resilience due to decreased time with friends and workplace social isolationWhat  the "funnel of misbelief" is and how it affects our psychologyHow social media can both facilitate and exacerbate the polarization of beliefsWhy it's so important to address misinformation and polarization and the potential consequences for democracy and society if we don'tWhy the legal system needs to catch up with new forms of communication and deterrent mechanisms in the digital ageDan shares his story of growing half a beard after being injured 70% of his body and why it inspired him  to explore behavioral economicsThe illusion of explanatory depth, where people often overestimate their knowledgeWhy we should seek out diverse perspectives and engage in constructive dialogue with people from different backgrounds and beliefsConnect with Dan Ariely:Dan ArielyConnect with David and Jasmine:David T. Biderman at Perkins Coie Jasmine Wetherell at Perkins Coie 

This week on The Persuasion Occasion, we welcome noted First Amendment lawyer Floyd Abrams as he recounts his representation of the New York Times in the historic legal battle over the publication of the Pentagon Papers. This 1971 case led to a groundbreaking U.S. Supreme Court ruling affecting freedom of the press. Floyd's captivating storytelling and description reveals how this fight about fundamental constitutional issues unfolded in a charged political environment.

Join us for an engaging session with Kasia Jagodzinska, author of the Financial Times Guide to High Impact Negotiation. We discuss the negotiation process, how Kasia's multicultural training served her in international negations at the United Nations, and the influence of psychology on negotiations. Kasia considers various negotiation strategies, including the Harvard Win/Win teaching and the FBI's strategies for crisis negotiations, and observations on new technology.As an associate professor in negotiations at the University of Neuchatel, and senior trainer at the Schranner Negotiation Institute, Kasia is recognized as a national expert to the European Parliament on cross-border mediations and served as a senior advisor to the United Nations in Geneva. She is the author of several books on self-empowerment in high-stakes negotiations, including Negotiation Booster.

Doug Wilson, and DWC President Michele Vives discuss the growth and downturns of mixed-use development. Michele shares her perspective on the dramatic loss in value of downtown real estate and the interconnectedness of commercial real estate and such community issues as homelessness, and our need to address these challenges. Doug, a 40-year veteran of real estate cycles, describes why he is optimistic about downtown urban development and investing in San Francisco properties when others are closing their doors.

Johnny Dzubak and AJ Harbinger, creators of The Art of Charm podcast, share how their podcast—and their subsequent training services—help people open up lines of communication and influence. They explain how positive feedback loops and other trained behaviours can make you more persuasive and discuss the skills that can help build trust and relationships. Johnny and AJ also describe how their work with Special Forces allowed them to communicate with other cultures to build valuable rapport.

We're excited to talk with Carlos Alvarenga, author of The Rules of Persuasion, How the World's Greatest Communicators Convince, Inspire, Lead—and, Sometimes, Deceive. Carlos reveals how he translated Aristotle's principles of persuasion to modern media (e.g., movies and rap music) to make his advice more accessible. He also explores his definition of persuasion, how Donald Trump's presidential campaign created a powerful loyalty from his audience, and the concept of chemistry in communication.

David and Jasmine talk with Markus Funk about the investigation and trial of the powerful Chicago-based Calabrese family mob, who engineered years of extortion, gambling, bookmaking, and hundreds of murders. Their gangland execution of two mobsters in an Indiana cornfield was reenacted in Martin Scorsese's Casino, giving viewers a glimpse of the chilling nature of organized crime activities. Marcus describes the trial of the nation's most extensive mob murder case, how they flipped mob leader Frank Calabrese's son, and how Markus' closing argument prompted Frank Sr. to refer to him as “a dead man.” He shares fascinating details of his life as an assistant United States attorney (AUSA), how to be persuasive at trial, and how his experience has taught him the importance of being authentic, no matter your role.

This week on The Persuasion Occasion, we are joined by Shane Read, one of the leading (and best) authors and commentators on courtroom and boardroom advocacy. Shane's compelling, award-winning books have been praised by the best trial lawyers in the world. Focusing on the importance of storytelling, Shane helps readers simplify complex ideas and understand the psychology of persuasion. His insights are essential for anyone looking to improve their persuasive skills, whether in the courtroom or beyond.

On The Persuasion Occasion this week, we're excited to talk to Dr. Rick Fuentes, nationally recognized trial consultant, about how to be more persuasive with the new generation of jurors. Rick discusses changing juror attitudes toward corporations and how their perspectives have been shaped by social media. He also will address their increased receptivity to conspiracy theories. Rick shares more about how lawyers can set a compelling narrative to quickly grab a jury's attention, using concepts empirically supported by thousands of jury exercises. Dr. Rick Fuentes, founding partner of R&D Strategic Solutions, has specialized in jury behavior and decision-making and evaluating complex evidence for more than 25 years. Rick has advised trial teams on hundreds of civil and criminal cases and, through focus groups, mock trials, and surveys, assists trial lawyers and in-house counsel.

This week on The Persuasion Occasion, Jasmine and David communicate (they don't just talk) with Abbie Maroño, Ph.D., a body language expert, about how we transmit signals with body language, facial expressions, and other visual cues. Abbie describes how she integrates her research on measurement of nonverbal cues, mimicry, and closeness into training protocols that enhance persuasive communications.Abbie provides expert advice and coaching for academic institutions and businesses to help them understand how nonverbal signals serve as powerful modes of communication. A scientist and practitioner in understanding human behavior, she earned her Ph.D. in record time and became a university professor at age 23. Abbie is now the director of education at Social-Engineer, LLC, specializing in nonverbal communication, trust, and the psychological mechanisms of decision-making.

Hosted by Perkins Coie Consumer Products and Services litigators David Biderman and Jasmine Wetherell, each episode features a conversation with noted professionals about achieving success in disputes and negotiations. The discussions are not limited to the legal realm, as success demands incorporating teachings from a breadth of perspectives. David, a baby boomer, and Jasmine, a millennial, enhance the discussions with their multigenerational perspectives.Episode guests include negotiators and behavioral scientists. They provide practical advice, real world examples, and thoughtful strategies for surmounting the inevitable hurdles encountered in the worlds of litigation, business, and life.At the end of the day, isn't life a series of disputes and negotiations? Legal professionals, industry leaders, or simply those with curious minds are invited to join David and Jasmine in these explorations.

The Persuasion Occasion brings together a wide range of experts to talk with David Biderman and Jasmine Wetherell, a boomer and a millennial, about how to be more persuasive. In our first episode, we welcome Gary Noesner, who shares insights from his career as the lead negotiator with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Gary tells us how his strategy of patience and empathy was overruled in the Waco negotiations with the Branch Davidians, leading to disastrous consequences. He also discusses the importance of self-control and emotional regulation in any negotiation and illustrates how emotions can affect rational thinking and behavior. Gary Noesner retired from the FBI in 2003, following a 30-year career as an investigator, instructor, and negotiator. He retired as the chief of the FBI's Crisis Negotiation Unit, Critical Incident Response Group, the first person to hold that position. He then served as a senior vice president with Control Risks, a global risk and strategic consulting firm, assisting clients in managing overseas kidnapping incidents. Gary has authored a book about his FBI negotiation career, Stalling for Time: My Life as an FBI Hostage Negotiator.

Cybersecurity expert Luke Tenery joins David and Andrew to discuss Stoneturn's strategic shift towards specialty work and emerging threats, particularly in asset-focused cyber practices. He shares his background in the industry, from starting as an intern for a national investigations and network security practice to becoming a preeminent cyber expert. Luke, David, and Andrew also address the importance of cultivating cybersecurity expertise on a corporate board, the need for diverse resources and people in the industry, and the growing role of artificial intelligence (AI) in security.

Dmitry Smilyanets, whose experience in cybercrime activity includes former membership in an elite Russia-based hacking organization, joins David and Andrew to discuss the importance of protecting company credentials, how hackers install malware to steal passwords, and how the SQL injection method of hacking works. Dmitry shares his personal journey, touching on his extradition from Russia to face charges in the United States, his subsequent decision to stay in the United States, and why he loves his current role at Recorded Future. We also dive into Dimitry's history as one of the most accomplished gamers in the world and what Recorded Future's Identity Intelligence module does to prevent account takeovers and consumer fraud.

Waqas Shahid, Vice President in the Forensics Practice at Charles River Associates, joins David and Andrew to discuss the latest and greatest in AI, particularly ChatGPT and how AI will affect export controls, cybersecurity, and risk management. Waqas is one of the country's lead consultants in defending cybersecurity threats, date breach response, regulatory compliance, and most recently AI tools such as ChatGPT. Waqas tells us how AI is transforming the world of cyber security and identifies new challenges businesses now face to ensure that data is protected and used ethically.

Ben Farrar of ActiveProspect joins David and Andrew to discuss his company's consent-based marketing solutions, which help companies contact only consumers who have given their prior written consent. Ben shares how he became interested in a career in privacy and information security. Together, we dig into the details of how companies can minimize risks involving data breach regulations.

Paul Valente, CEO and co-founder of VISO Trust, joins David Biderman and guest co-host, Andrew Pak, to tell us how his work model can help companies avoid a SolarWinds cyberattack. He describes the immense cyber risk companies assume by linking up with third-party data users, how he learned to control this risk, and how he developed a unique model that collects artifacts from third-party vendors, assessing their security in minutes via artificial intelligence (AI) and document intelligence. Paul also tells us how he and his co-founder conceived of and executed on the idea and earned the backing of premier Silicon Valley venture capital firms and other institutional investors.

Beni Gradwohl, co-founder and CEO of Cognovi Labs, Inc., an artificial intelligence (AI) company that measures the emotional drivers behind human decision-making, joins Deb and David in this episode. They discuss how Cognovi Labs' award-winning psychology-driven AI helps clients in the commercial, health, and public sectors by revealing how their audiences feel in the moment, predicting their actions and intent, and then communicating with emotions to maximize impact. Beni shares why he thinks running communications through a tool like the Cognovi Labs communicator is essential to achieve maximum effect. Beni also explains how his team created an algorithmic framework to map emotions into 10 action tendencies.

Eric Hittinger, an electric grid and cyber security expert and associate professor at Rochester Institute of Technology, joins Deb and David to discuss cybersecurity protections for the electric grid. Is a rogue nation state more dangerous than a hungry squirrel chewing an electric line? Eric discusses the likelihood of a cyberattack on the grid, what our country is doing to prevent cyberattacks, and how much we should worry about them. Eric also shares some of the access point and interconnectedness risks in the electricity system and how those risks are mitigated.

Glenn S. Gerstell, former general counsel of the National Security Agency (NSA) and Central Security Service (CSS), as well as a sought-after speaker, advisor, and thought leader on cybersecurity and the role of technology in national security, privacy, and geopolitical affairs, joins Deb and David to discuss how he transitioned from a distinguished career in law to public service. He describes how his experience as a lawyer in the technology field helped him in his role as general counsel for the NSA. Glenn also explains why relying so heavily on digital technology makes us vulnerable and what the United States is doing to protect itself from cyberattacks from other nation-states and ransomware gangs.

Colin Gounden, co-founder of VIA, joins Deb and David to discuss how he started five successful Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) spinouts and manages thousands of employees worldwide. Colin talks about how he developed VIA's blockchain application, Trusted Analytics Chain (TAC), to meet the high data security needs required to make predictive analytics and other artificial intelligence (AI) applications successful in the energy sector. He addresses the special needs for protecting big data, shares VIA's vision, and describes why social justice issues remain central to their ongoing mission. Colin also touches on his amazingly broad array of interests and pastimes, including reading Charles Dickens to help get through the COVID-19 lockdown.

Dan Frechtling, CEO of Boltive, joins David and Deb to share how his Privacy Guard service helps media companies, technology companies, and consumer brands find, block, and replace invasive advertising, including those with malware, data leakage, and other potential California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) or EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) violations. Dan tells a compelling story about his migration to data security and provides background on how advertising algorithms work. He also describes why advertising is so enmeshed in our web experience and what that means for the future of data protection. During the discussion, Dan gives a shout-out to our own CCPA Litigation Tracker, which helps companies stay abreast of litigation involving the CCPA.

Chris Handman, former general counsel at Snap Inc. and co-founder of TerraTrue, joins David and Deb to talk about his career and thoughts on privacy and security trends. Chris describes how he transitioned out of a large firm, where he worked for then-private-practice-lawyer John Roberts, to become the GC of Snap, where an ongoing Federal Trade Commission (FTC) consent decree made him acutely thoughtful about building privacy into the original coding of website functionality. He also discusses how he went on to found a successful data privacy company, TerraTrue, with a unique approach to building privacy as part of the company infrastructure and offers his insights on what companies need to prioritize given the current direction of privacy and security.

Joe Miller, Founder, President, Chief Executive Officer, and Founding Board Chair of The Washington Center for Technology Policy Inclusion (WashingTECH), joins David and guest cohost, Paige Biderman, to share how his organization fights for a safer and more trustworthy and inclusive internet. WashingTECH is the first in the nation to focus exclusively on diversity and inclusion in technology public policymaking. He discusses meeting with communities to teach those on the ground how tech policy impacts their lives and shares how WashingTECH supports parents who are looking for a safer online environment and highlights parenting issues from a policy perspective.

Jodi Daniels, CEO of Red Clover Advisors and Justin Daniels, cybersecurity expert, join Dominique and David to discuss why businesses are still not deliberate in designing privacy and security practices and how we can change our mindset to prioritize them. Jodi explores why data collection, usage, storage, and protection are the foundation of companies' continued business online and what happens when small companies do not understand their security responsibilities. The pair also share why they started their podcast “She Said Security/He Said Privacy in 2020” and how they provide informed coverage of privacy and security law developments.

Vineet Singal, co-founder and CEO of CareMessage, a messaging platform for health safety net organizations, joins Dominique and David to share why he created CareMessage out of his original work in San Francisco's Tenderloin neighborhood. He talks about why he turned down a scholarship to medical school to continue this work, and why he is so passionate about helping underserved populations manage their conditions and take responsibility for their health. Vineet describes how CareMessage grew from a Stanford undergraduate project to become the largest patient engagement program in the United States and discusses the types of data held by CareMessage and other healthcare clinics, as well how as how they ensure their HIPAA compliance. Vineet also explores how the COVID-19 pandemic has been a critical component of CareMessage's growth in ways he could not have anticipated when he started the company in 2012.

Daniella Ballou-Aares, CEO & Co-Founder of the Leadership Now Project and a Senior Advisor at Dalberg, joins David to discuss how corporate CEOs and corporations are taking direct action to support voting rights and how they are looking for an innovative model of sustained and strategic engagement to fix democracy. Most importantly, Daniella identifies with precision and clarity why measuring big data is important in preserving democracy, how supporting voting rights and a sustained democracy serves the interests of corporations and their shareholders, and why private sector leadership in this area is important, not only for democratic principles but for the long term interests of shareholders and business success.

Devin Banerjee, editor at large at LinkedIn News, joins Dominique and David to share his passion for business journalism. He discusses how writing business articles and updates for a social media company differs from more traditional publications where writers do not receive instantaneous feedback. He addresses C-suite awareness of the importance of cybersecurity and the damage that ransomware wreaks on an organization. Devin also dives into how LinkedIn identifies influential and high-quality contributors in different industries and brings them into the conversation on the platform.

Nishant Bhajaria, head of technical privacy and governance at Uber, joins David and Dominique to discuss how he has helped companies focus on data privacy. He outlines reputational risk versus better data and governance and why protecting data leads to better products, a more intelligent workforce, and a more engaged customer. They discuss why the amount of data being exchanged by companies and customers today is unlike any we've seen before and how transparency to consumers and enhanced data privacy is critical for a company to thrive. Nishant also shares how his newest book, Data Privacy: A Runbook for Engineers, is the first leading text for engineers on how to design, develop, and measure the effectiveness of privacy programs.

Ben Strick, director of investigations for the Centre for Information Resilience and Myanmar Witness, joins David Biderman and Dominique Shelton Leipzig to share how his team uses investigative techniques to document and expose human rights violations, identify perpetrators and victims, and assist social justice groups from Myanmar to Cameroon and around the globe. He describes why this process serves as a way of holding a mirror to society and forcing us to take responsibility for the hate and violence in the world. Ben also explains how the open source investigative community deals with privacy and General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) legislation, particularly when using photographs.

Dr. James Xie, a clinical informatics physician (CI-MD) and Epic physician builder at Stanford Children's Health, joins David and Dominique to discuss how his education in computer science and work with children who had special healthcare needs inspired him to move into medicine. We also cover how James' healthcare work intersects with the Decrypted Unscripted mission of unpacking and understanding data security issues, and James dives into how the 21st Century Cures Act is trying to promote healthcare information exchange and interoperability.