The Westminster Tradition

In the shadow of worries about the NDIS, do we even believe that big system reform in Australia is do-able any more? Is the juice worth the squeeze?In this first of a two part series, we explore the example of Universal Credit, a 15 year long reform agenda in the UK to combine 6 benefits into one, and, more importantly, seeking to transform the relationship of the citizen to work and welfare. In this episode we unpick how it goes from an idea that is incorporated into the UK Coalition Government's priority list in 2010 to a £450m hot mess in 2013.We also look at the unusual (and brave) decision to keep going.Along the way, we cover:Whether radical transparency can be an answer to rescuing something when you're in the middle of a hot mess?Whether we underestimate the importance of a 'holder of the vision' in giant systems reform? Whether articulating a north star for reform is hard because it makes clear what you are prioritising, and, equally importantly, what you're not?The laughable idea of low hanging fruitReferenced in the episode:Ed Milliband's interview referencing PM Gordon Brown as an ideas factory, on Leading (The Rest is Politics)David Freud's masterful memoir on his seminal role in Universal Credit, Clashing AgendasInstitute for Government has held a number of great events on this, including one in 2016 and another in 2025Abul Rizvi's appearance on Joe Walker podcast on the origins of Australia's immigration systemIntro grab is Lord David Freud from Institute for Government 2016 event, From disaster to recovery: Learning the lessons of Universal Credit Clashing Agendas.Outro grab is Tom Loosemore, former Deputy Director, Government Digital Services, from Institute for Government 2025 event, From disaster to completion? What Government can learn from the Universal Credit story? Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In a wide ranging discussion, Alison, Caroline and Danielle come together to discuss the gems from the Amanda Vanstone interview, which examined how power, responsibility and decision-making played out at the top of government during her two decades as a federal minister.Vanstone's approach to being a minister - asking questions until understanding, visiting programs unannounced, and taking full responsibility for decisions - offers deep insights.We also canvas some less expected topics, including:Is it a boomer quality to use ALL CAPS in inconveniently located thank you notes?See the memoir of UK civil service head What Does Jeremy Think? by Suzanne HeywoodAre the best questions the ones asked by kindergarteners 'Who? What? Why?'See also Maria Katsonis LinkedIn post on The Art of Asking Smarter QuestionsAre people disinterested in history in policy making, or are we just pitching it wrong?See also Abul Rizvi on Immigration Policy on The Joe Walker Podcast Memoir of Pamela Churchill Harriman Kingmaker by Sonia PurnellWas Amanda Vanstone falling in to the classic 'good girl' trope of delivering savings, rather than posturing about plans to deliver savings?On why Australia struggles with a conversation about trade offs, see Judith Brett on How a Benthamite Political Culture Shaped Australia's Electoral System, on The Joe Walker PodcastWould we star in a documentary on tricky policy making? Or do we already have the essence of one in Utopia?Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Former Senator Amanda Vanstone offers a masterclass in ministerial leadership, delivering sharp insights from her 21-year political career that are as relevant today as they were during her time in Prime Minister Howard's Cabinet. Cutting through bureaucratic excuses with remarkable clarity, she reveals how effective ministers must take full responsibility while developing practical strategies to uncover what's really happening within their departments.Vanstone's approach to ministerial oversight was refreshingly direct—phoning junior staff who prepared briefs rather than accepting sanitized information from senior executives, making unannounced visits to government-funded programs, and consistently asking "how does that work?" until satisfied with the answers. "You get what you inspect, not what you expect," she notes, emphasizing that accountability requires hands-on leadership.Her frank discussion of major reforms like the creation of Centrelink highlights how structural change requires both political courage and practical problem-solving. When departments maintained separate offices but required them to be within walking distance, she asked the obvious question: "Why not put them together?" This common-sense approach characterized her leadership across Employment, Education, Justice and Immigration portfolios.What stands out most powerfully is Vanstone's perspective on ministerial responsibility. "That's why ministers sign on the bottom line. That's why you get paid," she asserts, rejecting excuses about inherited problems or departmental advice. Her experiences with Immigration Department failures—including the wrongful deportation of Australian citizen Vivian Alvarez—taught her that when you find one serious problem, you must look deeper: "When a mouse runs out of your fridge, you think that's a mouse. When the second one comes a week later, you bring the fridge out and clean it out."Ready for straight talk about how government really works? Listen now to learn why Amanda Vanstone believes we urgently need another National Commission of Audit and how effective ministers must balance scrutiny with support to get the best from public servants.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Efficiency is in the news ... but what does it mean? How should public servants work on improving efficiency? Should we be focused on system reform, ending whole entitlements, or nibbling at the edges?How to know what kind of budget savings task you are in - deep restructuring or a cyclical contraction / expansion?Is front line v back office a helpful distinction?When are external reviews helpful, and when do they hurt?What is the role of tech in delivering savings?Referenced in the episodeInstitute for Government's reflections on PM Starmer's Rewiring the State agendaSuzanne Heywood "What does Jeremy think? Jeremy Heywood and the Making of Modern Britain"John Halligan (with Jules Wills) "The Centrelink Experiment"BBC 'Denmark's postal service to stop delivering letters'The NDIS ReviewNow for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Surfing a wave of listener feelings about this topic, Danielle takes us through the experience of public service recruitment from the other side.Danielle and Alison argue about the merits of requiring 'in house' recruitment before externally advertising positionsThe role that conservative (perhaps inexpert??) local budget management plays in driving a cycle of vacancies and short term contractsHow complex recruitment processes make the public service less and less like the public we serveEzra Klein's podcast episode In This House, We're Angry When Government FailsThe good, the bad and the ugly of external recruitersNow for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

The starter's gun has gone on Australia's national elections for 2025 and Parliament has been prorogued.In this episode, former head of Cabinet Office and keeper of the Caretaker Conventions, Alison answers Caroline and Danielle's increasingly pointed questions, and we end with arguing about the importance of formatting.Stay tuned to the end for some fabulous insider advice for managing caretaker period and elections as a public servant. This episode is dedicated to the significant birthday of Sandy Pitcher, a public service legend (read more about her here).Intro grab courtesy of the Hon Nat Cook MP, Minister for Human Services (SA).Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Drawing on overwhelming feedback from our listeners, in this episode we unpack the experience of being recruited into the public sector (or ghosted along the way). Danielle takes us throughWhat goes in Role Descriptions (hint: it shouldn't be slabs of legislation)The madness of defined requirements like 'driving' and 'interstate travel' (and whether Caroline's sister can really change a tyre)Alison's idea of an X factor style button for use in interviews when it's immediately clear this isn't working for anyoneWe finish with a listener description of a mad recruitment process that ends with, you guessed, it, ghosting.Thanks to Mary, our mug winner for this episode, for a great story!Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

How did the abuse at Oakden remain hidden for so long? And what finally brought it to light?In this episode we discuss:why families might not complainhow small, isolated outposts can hide terrible thingsthe importance of following up on things that don't feel quite right.Intro grab from the RN Background Briefing episode A Failure to Care: The Oakden Nursing Home, featuring Lorraine Baff, whose father was a patient at Oakden. You can find the full ICAC Report into Oakden here, and the Chief Psychiatrist report here.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In light of this week's decision that the NACC will pursue investigations into six public officials, we thought we would repost this episode from December 2024 explaining why the NACC's original decision to take no further action needed to be revisited, with a little explainer up front on the latest news.You can find out more about the NACC's announcement on 18th February 2025 here.In this episode, we talk about where things are at, managing conflicts of interest, and whether corruption always involves brown paper bags.For Rick Morton's reporting on this:Eight minutes outside: how the NACC failed on robodebtNACC dumped Gleeson over concerns for CoalitionNACC integrity officer quits over integrityOther recommended reads:Annabel Crabb's article on PM Albanese's response to the Qantas upgrades controversyJoe Aston's book The Chairman's LoungeOpening grab features National Anti-Corruption Commissioner Paul Brereton, appearing before the NACC Parliamentary Joint Committee, 22 November 2024.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

For over a decade, the state government vacillated about whether or not to privatise the Oakden Older Persons Mental Health Facility.Once the 2007 accreditation crisis had passed, however, it never reached the top of the ‘to do' list. Meanwhile, investment in facilities and staffing were endlessly postponed pending a decision. In this episode, we discuss:the dangers of decay while waiting for strategic directionswhether an organisation is ever really too broke to buy a $15 piece of equipment;some tactics for unsticking things.We also discuss an excellent listener question from a manager in social services policy who is thinking of getting out.Intro and outro grabs from the RN Background Briefing episode A Failure to Care: The Oakden Nursing Home, featuring Alma Krecu and Lorraine Baff, whose fathers were patients at Oakden. You can find the full ICAC Report into Oakden here, and the Chief Psychiatrist report here.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

We return for 2025 with a series on the Oakden Older Persons Mental Health Facility, an SA Government run facility whose scandalous conditions and institutionalised elder abuse were exposed in 2017, prompting (among other things) a Commonwealth Royal Commission. In this episode, we unpack a missed opportunity in 2007 to move Oakden from a mid-twentieth century asylum to a modern aged care facility, when the facility failed Commonwealth accreditation standards.Why is it so easy for executives to mobilise resources in a crisis, but so hard for managers to redress chronic under resourcing?How do you make sure you keep your eye on the long-term solution when the spot light is on?Intro and outro grabs from the RN Background Briefing episode A Failure to Care: The Oakden Nursing Home, featuring Carla Baron, the aged care consultant who quit in 2007 because she didn't think management wanted to change. You can find the full ICAC Report into Oakden here, and the Chief Psychiatrist report here.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

What do Secretaries really think when junior staff ask for career advice? Why are silos so impermeable? And should Christmas really be cancelled? Join Danielle and Caroline as they take Mike through listener questions.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Mike Kaiser, recently departed head of the Queensland Public Service, joins us to chat about the interface between political offices and the public service, lessons from robodebt, why delivery is everything in government and the secret of leadership. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Danielle unpacks the recently released APS State of the Service, with a look over our should at where we've come from - from the 1976 Coombs Royal Commission on Australian Government Administration, to the 2019 Thodey Review of the APS. How are women, First Nations and people with disability going in the APS? What about class?Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Keeping track of the National Anti-Corruption Commission and Robodebt is tricky - first there's no investigation, then there's some kind of review, then there's a search for an eminent person....In this episode, we talk about where things are at, managing conflicts of interest, and whether corruption always involves brown paper bags.For Rick Morton's reporting on this:Eight minutes outside: how the NACC failed on robodebtNACC dumped Gleeson over concerns for CoalitionNACC integrity officer quits over integrityOther recommended reads:Annabel Crabb's article on PM Albanese's response to the Qantas upgrades controversyJoe Aston's book The Chairman's LoungeOpening grab features National Anti-Corruption Commissioner Paul Brereton, appearing before the NACC Parliamentary Joint Committee, 22 November 2024.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Post Office's internal inquiries never got to the bottom of the situation. Here we unpack how to choose an investigator, getting the information to the person, and what do with a report.Opening grab from Sir Anthony Hooper, independent chair of Horizon mediation scheme.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC and Paula Vennels, former Post Office Limited Chief Executive. Subsequent grab Mr Beer KC and Alice Perkins, former Post Office Limited Chair. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Post Office leadership commissioned at least 6 different investigations of varying degrees of independence and rigor into complaints about Horizon after 2010. And yet none of them got to the truth. In the next two episodes, we unpack what not to do when setting up inquiries and investigations. Opening grab from Mr Beer KC and Alice Perkins, former Post Office Limited Chair.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC and Alice Perkins, former Post Office Limited Chair.Final grab from Mr Beer KC and Rod Ismay, Former Post Office Limited, Head of Product and Branch Accounting.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Another great round of questions, thanks!Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Thanks for the questions folks!Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

The Australian Public Service Commission has released the findings of its Centralised Code of Conduct Inquiry into Robodebt.Outro grab from The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 10.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, we look at why Post Office kept prosecuting Sub Post Masters through the lens of Dan Davies' analysis in his new book The Unaccountability Machine.Opening grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Alisdair Cameron, CFO and former interim CE of Post Office Ltd.Subsequent grab from Mr Blake KC (Counsel Assisting) and Graham Brander, former Post Office Investigator.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC and Anne Chambers, former Fujitsu Engineer Third Line Support.Final grab from Mr Blake KC and Paul Inwood, former Post Office Limited Contract Manager.For thorough and detailed reporting of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

A massive power imbalance, everyone doing the narrowest version of their jobs, and an overriding culture that assumed postmasters were thieves. These are just some of the ways Post Office ended up prosecuting postmasters for shortfalls that existed only on the computer.Opening grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Rob Wilson, former Head of the Royal Mail Group Criminal Law Team.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC and Helen Rose, former Post Office / Royal Mail Group Auditor.Final grab from Andrew Wise, former Advisor in the Network Business Support Centre, Post Office.For thorough and detailed reporting of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, former state Minister for Health and the Arts (among others) the Hon John Hill, shares his insights into what Ministers want - and what they need - from the public service.You can buy his book ‘On being a Minister' here - and if you're brave, share with your Minister!Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this second interview with former Commonwealth Secretary and Australian Public Service Commissioner Andrew Podger AO, Danielle gets to chat aboutThe pros and cons of bringing all service delivery together in a single agency The valuing of operational expertise v policy leadershipThe role of portfolio budget practices in driving RobodebtCultures of challenge and diversity of thoughtThe future of public service reform.References in the episode2019 Thodey Review of Australian Public Service1976 Coombs Royal Commission on Australian Government AdministrationNow for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

With a decade as a Commonwealth Secretary, and two more as Australian Public Service Commissioner, it is no surprise Robodebt Royal Commissioner Holmes turned to Andrew Podger AO for expert advice on the operation of the public service.In this episode, Danielle talks to Andrew about the impact that granting tenure could have on the quality of advice, the increasing use of labour hire in the public service, and the importance of senior executives having read the legislation.Also referenced in the conversation:The ‘Barilaro Report': NSW DPC Investigation into the Appointment of Senior Trade and Investment Commissioner to the AmericasBlair Comley, Cth Secretary Health and Ageing, speech to IPAA (14 March 2024)Intro grab features Counsel Assisting Justin Greggery, Ms Kathryn Campbell AO CSC,  and Commission Holmes, 11 November 2022.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

What does the community want more - every last transgressor to be punished, or government to keep out of their business?How can regulators keep pace with changing community expectations about what is ‘appropriate' - and, indeed, what is a workplace?What is a regulator to do when you're facing these issues in the full glare of media scrutiny?In this final episode of the Essendon mini-series, we think about what this footy doping scandal can tell us about the challenges of being a modern regulator.Intro grab is then Chief Executive of the AFL, Andrew Demetriou, at the press conference releasing the Australian Crime Commission report on 7 February, 2013.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In episode two of this mini-series, we pick up the story of the Essendon supplements scandal from the perspective of the investigators.In this story we hear how ASADA ends up in the middle of a media fire storm, with inadequate regulatory powers and biopharmaceutical technology racing ahead.But is it really a matter for ASADA at all? Is this an anti-doping violation, or a WHS breach? And why do Cronulla players end up suspended for six matches, while Essendon players get two years?Intro grab is Richard Eccles, former Deputy Secretary Department for Regional Australia, Local Government, Arts and Sports.Outro grab is Nathan Lovett-Murray, former Essendon player.Both from the Long Haul podcast, Episode Two: Inside the Blackest day.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

“Lack of good governance is why good people did bad things at Essendon Football Club”. So says Lindsay Tanner, former Minister for Finance, and President of the Essendon Football Club from 2015.In this mini-series, Caroline tries to convince us there are lessons for public servants from the Essendon Football Club supplement scandal in 2013.In this episode, we talk about what happened in Essendon itself. The dangers of charismatic new leaders, new brooms through an organisation, and a failure to take controls and risk management seriously.Referenced in this episode: Lindsay Tanner ‘Governance lessons from the Essendon scandal'The Long Haul podcast, Episode Two: Inside the Blackest DayZiggy Switkowski report into failures of governance at Essendon Football ClubDr Bruce Reid letter to Essendon Football Club about his concerns about the supplement regimeIntro grab is Lindsay Tanner, Governance lessons from the Essendon scandal.Outro grab is Nathan Lovett-Murray and Emma Murray, The Long Haul podcast, Episode Two: Inside the Blackest Day.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In the second of two follow ups to her interview at the end of 2023, Sue Vardon dives deep on her commitment to training Centrelink staff, including the establishment of an in-house Registered Training Organisation (RTO).Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In the first of two follow ups to her interview at the end of 2023, Sue Vardon returns to share her thoughts on the dangers for Senior Executives who outsource considerations of legality to the lawyers.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Centrelink is not alone in having a push and pull between the investment required to get it right up front, versus the convenience of fixing things up later.We discuss the old chestnut 'fast, cheap, good - pick two' , and the less obvious costs of running lean - whether in pandemic preparedness, strategic policy capacity, workforce burnout.Finally, Danielle proposes an end to end definition of efficiency, that captures costs we move to other parts of government, or end up paying later on.ANAO Report on Accuracy and Timeliness of Welfare Payments (2023)The UK Covid Inquiry PodcastIntro grab from Sue Vardon AO Bonus Episode.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

If you knew your IT system was unreliable, wouldn't you keep some manual checks to make sure it doesn't go wrong? Not if you're Post Office, and desperately looking for savings. Especially if you've just lost your biggest revenue source, in the form of the Benefits Agency and the cash in the tills it provides.In the final episode of our first (but not last!) mini-series on the Post Office scandal, we examine how the Post Office 'forgot' what it knew about Horizon's unreliability, and then removed key guard rails that might have prevented false prosecutions.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Kathryn Parker (former Post Office training), 13 January 2023.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Susan Harding (former Post office Business Process Architect), 22 February 2023.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Despite hundreds of technical issues and continuing delays in meeting quality requirements, in January 2000, Post Office Board accepted the Horizon IT system as its own.In this episode, we discuss how hard it is to say 'stop' in the middle of a game of whack-a-mole of problem fixing, especially when there are institutional incentives to keep going. We also have strong feelings about the idea of 'minimum viable products' where the delivery of social services - and the founding of prosecutions - are concerned.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Stuart Sweetman (former Managing Director of Post Office Counters Limited), 17 November 2022.Subsequent grab from Mr Jeremy Folkes (former Infrastructure Assurance Team Leader, Horizon Programme, Post Office Counters Ltd) and Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting),  17 November 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Why was the Post Office's Horizon IT system so error ridden in the first place?And is the false conviction of nearly 1000 postmasters really Tony Blair's fault in the end? (Spoiler alert: probably not.)In this episode, Caroline takes us through why Horizon was probably doomed from the start, with Post Office and the Benefits Agency shackled together to buy an ICT system through an elaborately structured, too clever by half Private Finance Initiative (PFI).Among other things, we talk about the role of first ministers and Cabinet in resolving disagreements between portfolios with genuinely different interests; the impossibility of outsourcing political risk; and the challenge of working out the truth when everyone you speak to has an agenda.Harriet Harman, Minister for Social Services, February 2018 letter to PM Blair can be found here.Geoff Mulgan's December 2018 minute to PM Blair can be found here, and his reflections after appearing at the Inquiry can be found on his blog here.Opening grab from Lord Alistair Darling, former Chief Secretary of Treasury, 29 November 2022. Subsequent grab from Sir Geoffrey Mulgan, former civil servant No. 10 Downing St, 2 December 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Season 2 kicks off with a deeper look at the British Post Office fiasco.Gaslighting critics, false confessions, aggressive litigation tactics, challenges with redress, and no accountability from senior leaders - sound familiar?Nick Wallis BBC4 podcast The Great Post Office TrialAlison's recommended listening re psychological safety, Adam Grant's Think AgainOn the 'objective review' conducted by the Post Office in 2010 to make the strongest case as to why Horizon should be trusted, see, Nick Wallis Rod Ismay: The Useful IdiotTony Moore 'Sorry' not such a hard work for Peter Beattie to say  Sylvan Baker, Mr Bates vs The Post Office: why docudramas have the power to inspire real social and political changeChannel 7 has secured the Australian rights to Mr Bates v Post Office.Intro grab features Paula Vennells, Chief Executive of Post Office, appearing before a Parliamentary Select Committee in 2015.Outro grab features Peter Beattie apologising for excluding athletes from the Commonwealth Games closing ceremony in 2018.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this special holiday bonus, inaugural CE of Centrelink Sue Vardon AO joins Danielle and Caroline to talk through her submission to the Robodebt Royal Commission. Her submission outlines the changes in Centrelink that made Robodebt possible - as well as the things that have stayed the same.She also takes us through her career, from being the only social worker in Wagga Wagga through to leading the establishment of Centrelink.Along the way, she covers the difference between being a 'customer' and a 'recipient', the snap back of bureaucratic and hierarchical cultures, the value of operational experience and much more.Grab at around 1 hr 6 min is Commissioner Holmes and Kathryn Campbell AO CSC and Bar, November 11 2022.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Sue Vardon AO has 23 years of experience as a public sector Chief Executive, including CE of the Office of Public Sector Reform, the Public Service Commissioner and the CE of the Department for Correctional Services in South Australia. She was inaugural CE of Centrelink in 1997, a position she held until 2004.  She finished her full-time public service career as CE of the South Australian Department for Families and Communities. She was the first Telstra Businesswoman of the Year.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Much of the evidence heard by the Royal Commission was from people who didn't know what was happening - either because they were too junior to have all the information, or, if they were senior, too busy to have stopped and asked the question.Provoked by Dr Darren O'Donovan, in this episode we unpack practical steps that create organisations that can't look away.The discussion covers- capturing the right data, and sharing it routinely and publicly- risk as a frame for empowering people to push unwelcome information up- the challenges with record keeping for institutional continuity, including the lost art of capturing decisions Referenced in the episode:- The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande, on building safety culture- The Squid Hunter by David Grann (Alison's giant squid article)Intro and further grabs from our special bonus episode interview with Dr Darren O'Donovan, Senior Lecturer at La Trobe Law School. Later grabs from: Mr Finn Pratt AO PSM and Commissioner Catherine Holmes, 10 November 2022, and Ms Serena Wilson and Mr Justin Greggery KC, 9 November 2022.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this in-depth and wide-ranging interview,  Dr Darren O'Donovan, Senior Lecturer at La Trobe University Law School, reflects on what it was like being on the outside looking in at Robodebt. *This  was recorded before the release of the Government's response to the Royal Commission.*Some references from the interview include:Frank Kafka Before the LawPamela Herd and Donald Moynihan Administrative Burden: Policymaking by other means (2019)Homi Bhabha The Other Question: Stereotype, discrimination and the discourse of colonialism (2001)Evidence from Michael Kerr-Brown re ATO being well positioned to push back against the DHS request, transcript from 12 December 2022 p. 1615Nick Gill, Nothing Personal? Geographies of Governing and Activism in the British Asylum System (2015)Darren O'Donovan  Victims now know they were right about robodebt all along at The ConversationGrabs included are:Angus Scott KC, Louise Macleod (Ombudsman) and Commissioner Holmes, 8 MarchJason McNamara (DHS) and Angus Scott KC, 5 December 2022Commissioner Holmes and Michael Kerr-Brown (ATO), 12 December 2022Tim Ffrench (DHS), 22 February 2022Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, Danielle and Alison bring the conflict on their views of behavioural insights. Danielle thinks it's a revelation that government started thinking about its customers and what works for them. Alison thinks it's oversold, and not always deployed in the interests of the people. Caroline wonders if we can all just get along.Ultimately, the listeners win.References from the episode include:If Books Could Kill podcast on NudgeRichard Thaler and Cass Sunstein Nudge: Improving decisions about health, wealth and happiness (2009).On the replicability crisis in behavioural economics, see Gideon Lewis-Kraus 'They studied dishonesty. Was their work a lie?' New Yorker. The intro grab features Jason McNamara (DHS) and Angus Scott KC, 5 December 2022Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Christmas leave plays an outsize role in Robodebt. Danielle takes us through some of the questions raised about Christmas leave, including who holds the can when people are on leave, and how 'hovering' while you're on leave can confuse and disempower. She also makes a case that government should never, ever shut down over Christmas, because our work never ends.Meanwhile, Alison gives another excellent life hack - this time about taking work emails off your phone on leave.As promised in the episode, here is Commissioner Holmes' finding about what happened to the requested legal advice: "The Commission finds that Ms Campbell instructed DHS officers to cease the process of responding to Mr Jackson's request for advice, motivated by a concern that the unlawfulness of the Scheme might be exposed to the Ombudsman in the course of its investigation." (see page 189)This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Intro grab features Commissioner Holmes and Ms Annette Musolino, 30 January 2023. Later grab features Mr Derek Greggery KC and Ms Kathryn Campbell, 7 March 2023.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In September 2014, at the very moment DHS invents Robodebt, the APS receives a frank assessment of its limitations in the form of the Final Report Home Insulation Program Royal Commission.In this episode, a review of the 'pink batts' Royal Commission report shows the key failings that recur.Why is it so hard as a public servant to say 'we can't do this in the time allowed?'How should generalists respond when asked to engage in technical subject matter that we don't understand?And once again, how do we ensure collegiality doesn't lead to group think and unwillingness to raise risks?You can find the Final Report of the Home Insulation Program Royal Commission here, and the comments about public servant testimony on page 13. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Intro grab features Mr Chris Birrer and Commissioner Catherine Holmes, 7 November 2023. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In our final episode on the algorithmic nature of Robodebt, we tackle the implications of  algorithms being commercial in confidence property of third party providers, legacy ICT systems, plus recognise we need to lean in to understanding AI and how it works.We do a second mini-dive into the Great British Post Office scandal - this time into the systemic racism that underpinned its operation. We finish up by thinking about how AI black box decision making may interact with a historic trend of government interventions that focus on individual entitlement, rather than community needs.You can find more information about the legal landscape of automated decision making in Anna Huggins (2021) "Addressing Disconnection: Automated decision-making, administrative law and regulatory reform".This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.*The intro grab this week is an AI called Russell reading  an extract from Minister Shorten's 25 July 2023 speech at the AFR Government Summit. While an AI voice is on theme, if anyone has access to an actual recording of the speech, we will happily put that up instead. Just email us.*Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

How will automation impact the ability of people to seek review of administrative decisions by government agencies?  In this episode, we talk about the human bias toward thinking computers are right, and take a brief digression into another public service scandal - The Great Post Office Trial - where discrepancies on a computer screen were used as proof to send people to jail. You can find Alison's homework reading by former Chief Justice French here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Robodebt victim, Rosemary Gay, and Counsel Assisting Douglas Freeburn.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

The first of a number of episodes on the algorithmic nature of Robodebt.This episode focuses on big data in government - what we know about it, the ways in which data can be hard to use, and the supreme importance of context. Danielle talks about disappearing from a government system, and Alison gives an important life hack to all double-barrelled surname holders.You can find a link to the Professor Darren O'Donovan article mentioned up front here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Intro grab features Dr Elea Wurth and Commissioner Holmes, 8 March 2023.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Why can it be hard to hear whistleblowers in big organisations? Caroline takes us through Kathryn Campbell's response to whistleblowers that come in via the media and come in via the union, and thinks there's something in that. Alison thinks it's a failure of change management - but is stuck on finding words to describe that aren't "waffle cloud".Danielle finally gets to ask 'what would Colleen do?' - but we all agree it takes a person of rare temperament to be as graceful as Colleen Taylor in blowing the whistle.You can find the anonymous letter from the whistleblower to GetUp! here.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Intro grab features Ms Colleen Taylor, and Counsel Assisting Mr Scott, 13 December 2022.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this special episode, Caroline and Danielle unpack their feelings about the Royal Commission Report, five days after its release. We also pick through some of the Commissioner's key findings, as they relate to things discussed in previous episodes. If you are new to the podcast, we suggest you start at the beginning and come to this after you've listened for a bit.You can find Rick Morton's podcast here, and his books On Money and 100 Years of Dirt.Intro grab features Ms Colleen Taylor, 13 December 2022Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the many different ways in which lawyers in the Commonwealth Government knew that Robodebt was illegal well before the Federal Court settlement in late 2019. You might not remember who wrote the constitutional law text book, but you would remember going to a conference where an eminent KC dismantles your program point by point.  Danielle's deep loathing of ritual data collection proves sensible when we discuss the work that DHS lawyers did in reviewing AAT decisions. Meanwhile, Alison's blood boils as we hear 'advice is just advice', and we learn how the Government was in possession of legal advice declaring Robodebt unlawful from mid 2018 and did nothing. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Ms Annette Musolino, 1 March 2023 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, Caroline takes us through how DHS responds in early 2017 when things start hitting the fan. Aggressive defence is the name of game in the media, while in the background frantic efforts are made to improve 'the customer interface'. We talk about how DHS backed themselves into a corner, and despite a lot of senior attention to solve problems,  never picked up the rock to check what was underneath.We also talk about how hard it is to fix something while it's operating. We finish by discussing the importance of departments maintaining relationships with stakeholders irrespective of the flavour of the government of the day. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Ms Tenille Collins and Commissioner Catherine Holmes, 3 March 2023 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the reaction of DSS in early 2017, when it becomes clear DHS hadn't abided by the agreement they thought they had to kill Robodebt.  However, far from handing DHS over to the Ombudsman, DSS engage in a process that looks like ‘a conspiracy to conceal stuff up', in the inimitable words of Commissioner Holmes.  We discuss how hard it is to check in on the work of other agencies, the unlikely role of Christmas, and the awful impulse to keep things tidy that leads to a cover-up. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.  Intro grab features Mr Finn Pratt AO PSM and Commissioner Catherine Holmes, 10 November 2022 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In this episode, Caroline takes us through the tick-tock of how, in late January and early February 2015, DSS went from having legal advice that said Robodebt was unlawful, to waving it through the Budget process. We discuss how something that is 'not consistent with legislation' is actually 'illegal', and the impacts of softening language on the bowels of ministers. Alison gives us a primer on the Columbia Effect, and how the over-simplification of technical detail led to a disastrous outcome from a meeting between DSS and DHS on 20th February 2015. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Intro grab features Counsel Assisting, Mr Derek Greggery KC, and Ms Catherine Halbert, 8 December 2022 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

In the second episode of two episodes exploring the culture in DHS and how it contributed to Robodebt, Danielle takes us through the pressures being experienced on the frontline in Centrelink. From the rise of employee engagement surveys, the use of temporary labour hire, to the decline of unions, this episode explores the importance (and challenge) of knowing what's going on the frontlines. You can find the Centrelink culture review we discussed here. This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Intro grab features Mr Scott Britton, 8 November 2022 Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....Those of us in the employ of the State Government speak in a strictly personal capacity, consistent with the Public Sector Code of Ethics that permits public servants to promote an outcome in relation to an issue of public interest - in this case, the betterment of the public service.Nothing we say should be taken as representing the views of the Government or our employers.While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don't guarantee that we've got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!