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Connect with Chenchao Liu on LinkedInVisit SILREALs websiteVisit Asia Business Podcast Full show Transcript below Summary and TimestampsOverviewIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Chenchao Liu, the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm focusing on healthcare and Sino-European business exchanges. Chenchao shares his journey from China to Germany, his transition from science to business, and the mission of bridging the healthcare sectors between China and the West. They discuss the unique collaboration opportunities in pharmaceuticals and healthcare services between China and Europe, navigating political barriers, and the impact of regulations like IP protection and data sharing laws. The conversation delves into the challenges and trends reshaping the industry in China, including the aging population, health consciousness post-COVID, and the dynamics of foreign companies adapting to China's volume-based pricing system. Timestamps00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest00:41 Chenchao Liu's Journey from China to Germany and Founding SILREAL01:49 Bridging Sino-European Business in Healthcare02:54 Exploring Recent Projects and the Impact of SILREAL's Work05:03 Opportunities for China-Europe Collaboration in Healthcare08:20 Navigating Political Barriers in Sino-European Relations16:23 The Impact of Regulations on Cross-Border Healthcare Collaboration21:15 Macro Trends Shaping the Healthcare Industry in China31:16 Concluding Remarks and How to Connect with Chenchao Liu TranscriptArt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Today we have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Chenchao Liu. Chenchao is the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm specializing in the healthcare sector [00:00:15] and fostering Sino European business exchanges.Art: Welcome Chenchao.Chenchao: Thank you, Art. Thank you for having me. Art: Yeah, we've been talking. We've been talking a few times over the last couple of years or so, and [00:00:30] it just seemed natural that we do a podcast. We've had long conversations, the two of us just talking about some of these things we're going to get into.Art: So it's, like I said, it's natural. We just record an episode about it. And, you were born in China, but you've lived in Germany for more than 20 [00:00:45] years now. And I was wondering if you could share a bit about your own kind Your own story behind the founding of SILREAL and then also help the audience understand a bit more kind of work you do to bridge the European Chinese markets in life [00:01:00] sciences.Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Art. Thank you for really inviting me and I respect and follow your work for a while and appreciate that I could share some of my story here. Yeah, as you mentioned, yeah, I was born in [00:01:15] China in Qingdao, historical city connected to Germany. And I came to Germany when I was 13. So I went to elementary school, and I studied chemistry in Munich.Chenchao: And had very devoted concentration interested into [00:01:30] science and was very active. I high school already for Olympics and later for Mustang Institute ATH. But I realized later that due to the internship I did with consulting firms that I'm really belong to the business world.Chenchao: I [00:01:45] want to work with people. I want to be in real impact making. And yeah, so I after graduation, I went to consulting firm, I did a lot of projects for hospitals and also for private equities [00:02:00] in 2017 when I realized that I wanted to Do more things with China. I said to myself look into the mirror.Chenchao: You cannot just look like this way. It's better that you could do something content wise with the country [00:02:15] where you're from. And yeah, I started to advise some Chinese firms who come to Europe and vice versa. And yeah, and what is really entrepreneurial journey. Nobody has taught me how to build business, so really try and [00:02:30] arrow and yeah, I think it's combination of hard work, persistent and also support of others.Chenchao: We have thright and have again, some traction, have project from federal menstrual health and the state governments help some big [00:02:45] pharma like AstraZeneca. And yeah, I really want to be the bridge in life science healthcare between China and the West. Art: And can you talk a bit about some of the sort of the projects that you've worked on recently and[00:03:00] or so, some, so give the audience a really some context for some actual to the extent you're allowed to talk about it, but I know also we'll get into it.Art: You've got quite a. Number of wonderful endorsements on your websites from the projects you've worked on, but just [00:03:15] to give the audience a bit of wrap their heads around the actual kind of consulting work and so forth that you do. Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Arthur. So basically, we have three main sectors of industries.Chenchao: We serve for health [00:03:30] care, life science and public sector. We have done digitalization project for health care providers in Germany. I helped them to modernize their 6000 employee. System of hrs and consolidate over [00:03:45] 20 entities. And also to transform how they track employee working time and management of the post recruitment retention.Chenchao: So other project we have done is really to bring [00:04:00] public and private sector together to tackle Corona diseases. To learn from each other between German China when it's come to for example, COPD. I think the strengths we can bring here is really to understand the [00:04:15] policy, understand the legal justice nature.Chenchao: But also to bridge, what does it make the difference between how Germany and China handle different disease areas. And lastly, as I mentioned for the government public sector we do [00:04:30] oftentimes delegation trips for ministry level for experts from insurance for hospital representative to really to understand how big countries like China, Israel and the U.Chenchao: S. Playing around in the [00:04:45] digitalization. And that's why I think it's very crucial especially in this age to have a active dialogue because I do think, as you mentioned, the before the trip for by the chancellor, there's this avenue of collaboration [00:05:00] is still very strong within the healthcare.Art: Yeah, let's jump into that, jump ahead into that question. The, in an ideal scenario, devoid of political barriers, and we'll get into those, maybe some of those political barriers in a 2nd, but, what are some of the [00:05:15] unique opportunities for collaboration between China and Europe in the, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology.Art: Health care services, because it seems like there's you've already hit on it a bit. There's naturally a lot of synergies. There's just by listening to some of the projects [00:05:30] you've supported so far. So without politics in the mix, what would be the, some of the more of those kind of natural synergies between between China and Europe in these sectors?Chenchao: Yeah, thank you. I think due to a large population, 1. [00:05:45] 5 billion in people in China, and it's already is the second biggest market in healthcare and pharmaceuticals and it's posed to become the biggest one but if you look at the per capital expenditure China is still lagging very [00:06:00] far behind.Chenchao: It's only around 10 percent or less, Of that expenditure per capita compared to European level. So there's a lot of to catch up and I think aging population China and also very high pressure for, [00:06:15] a younger generation birth rate. So there's a lot of issues within the society and also the plague by the chronic diseases in various forms.Chenchao: I just mentioned COPD, but there's also other ways and the cancer [00:06:30] and, uh, heart related diseases. And I think this is also very important after the COVID, like how to also in the community diseases are prevented. Measurement and the very [00:06:45] important role China can have. So I think this is really laid the ground for multinationals to really look into China and the force of their expansion.Chenchao: And despite all the attention we have touched on, I think there's a lot [00:07:00] of company. Are just announced even further and stronger presence in China, like as Seneca's new research facility in Hong Kong. In Heim also mentioned the billion of investment [00:07:15] going on. So there is still very strong sense that the market due to the high population, due to also the infrastructure because China is still at home.Chenchao: of a very strong, supplier for biosimilar and and [00:07:30] APIs for big pharmaceuticals around globe. So it's very crucial to have a healthy relationship with China to keep supply chain safe and secure. Art: Yeah, and that's actually in contrast a little bit to what's been going on in the U. S. [00:07:45] these days.Art: It's more and more Chinese companies are potentially Congress is in an election year here in the U. S., as is looking at more and more Chinese companies. And now that's extended to the bios and pharmaceutical sector as well, which is, I guess people thought might [00:08:00] happen, but maybe not so quickly.Art: So that's it seems like Europe is not it is quite different, which is I guess not surprising but that's been in the news here in the U. S. too. And it's living here in San Diego, California, where I know a lot of those, the Chinese companies and U. S. companies, [00:08:15] this is a place where they work together.Art: It's I don't know, a little bit disheartening to see that happening, but but I guess there's. Anyway, I won't get into the concerns but now that we do put let's say, we put politics to some of the tensions into the mix. How is that starting [00:08:30] at all to influence cooperation between China and Europe?Art: Like I said, China in the US, I think that's already definitely having an impact, but do you see that having an impact at all between China and Europe? Yeah, definitely. Are there are [00:08:45] big impacts. The question is like how, long term and how quantifiable other impacts. I think everything is put into perspective.Chenchao: I think compared to other industries health care amount climate are still Thank you. [00:09:00] Very strong, constructive avenue of collaboration, but I do agree with your assessment. There's a difference between US China, European China relationship, and I think underlined by the trip by Chancellor Scholz from [00:09:15] Germany with three ministers and all state secretary level people, three days.Chenchao: Very long stay. So it's a really strong signal not only to China, but to the rest of the world that we need a very strong dialogue. We need a very [00:09:30] strong, and the Stanford, even we cannot agree on everything on every issues. But I think this kind of. Very pragmatic approach that we need China also to solve major conflicts in Middle East in Ukraine, Russian conflict, [00:09:45] and others.Chenchao: I think this is just to serve, the best interests of the people who ultimately, At the say in the democracies in the West. So I think when it's come to industry politics I do believe that, of course [00:10:00] Europeans want to, have the access to Chinese market. At the same time, it's very critical.Chenchao: Look at at, also from the legislative and legal point of view, China. The IP laws, the cyber security laws, and also the [00:10:15] limitation data transfer. These are all the problems, especially also for R& D intensive industry like pharmaceuticals, biotech. And so this is a strong position for European part to get China more to create [00:10:30] a, a fair competition environment.Chenchao: So this has been a very strong agenda of the trip as well. I personally, as I said, I was organized of the delegation trip myself for the ministry level. And last year I was [00:10:45] invited for the delegation trip by the climate minister from Germany. So I do see a very strong willingness to collaborate.Chenchao: And to willingness to, to collaborate in field where common dialogue is [00:11:00] possible. And I'm very hopeful to see, and just to stay by Germany in June the economy, Mr. Habeck is going to China as well. So I do think that's within this year very crucial both to the election, as you mentioned, yes.Chenchao: [00:11:15] But also some very highly watched elections within the states in Germany. So yeah so China West relation has always been very significant. Art: Yeah, that's, I think there's, that's a great point. Look at that three days and high [00:11:30] level visits like that. And that's really, I don't think there's many other countries that do that.Art: So of course, certainly not the United States, but there's, that's that As you said, really would show a sign of commitment to the relationship and the markets [00:11:45] opportunities both ways even. And I did also read that Chancellor Schultz said that IP protection, you hit on it.Art: There is was maybe the chief concern of German companies. And I wonder if. We can get into that as a bit of a side [00:12:00] topic. Is that a is that still a concern for German companies in these sectors we've been talking about? Or is that more, let's say, in some of the traditional auto or other sectors that German companies have been also quite strong in is that I'm [00:12:15] talking about IP protection in China.Art: I know, because, of course, I practice law cross border there, and I can certainly. The audience, if they've been listening to me, know that I think that IP protection in China has gotten significantly better than it was [00:12:30] when I first started going over there. But I, like I said, Chancellor Schultz said that's still a primary concern for German companies.Art: Do you see that in your industries as well? Chenchao: I think one say it's reputation is hard to build but easy to lose, [00:12:45] right? So once you have a not very good reputation when it comes to IP protection, IP enforcement, and it's very hard to build back the reputation. I do agree on legislative level, China has already made progress and [00:13:00] had also You know enforce the law and to punish some of the companies who infiltrate the IP so I think I totally agree with your assessment, but the other hand, when it's come to all our confidence in Chinese market, when it's come to [00:13:15] IP, it is still very low slope recovery. So that's concern remains. And because there's also the effect of those high pace of regulatory changes in China, right?Chenchao: So we, we see A new laws coming in rapid [00:13:30] speed, there's no time to read, to digest, to understand the comment, not like the legislative cycles we know from the democratic system in the U. S. or in Europe, in the European Union. Everything's slower, people have time to debate, to [00:13:45] comment, and to see the final draft of the law might be totally different.Chenchao: In China, you have to really keep up the pace to understand the new laws, what is impact for the business. And I think the other very current issue art is also [00:14:00] when it's come to espionage law in China, and this has also direct. Impacting the pharmaceuticals company because the audit and the inspections for this kind of factory and sites who are [00:14:15] producing products directly for the European U.Chenchao: S. market are scrutinized. And but not in the direct way. It's just, as I said, a lot of confidence, fear of to be imprisoned, fear of to be Questions on the [00:14:30] airport that's why many inspectors are refusing to fly to China to do their audit job, which is very concerning because even there's nothing happened alone, this kind of angst, this kind of uncertainty is not very good [00:14:45]confidence for business.Chenchao: And we know if their sites and the manufacturer entities are not a certified, they are not allowed to sell products in the board. And. This doesn't only harm business, it just can harm patient's health, safety, [00:15:00] and patient care. So we really have to act fast and to come to a really good pragmatic agreement.Chenchao: So there's reinstalled the confidence. I think at the end of the day, we cannot regard business or economic ize only on paper, [00:15:15] on legal. But rather on people's perception, we have to regain the confidence we have to regain that China is a reliable partner and not just being said, not just put on paper, but lived by [00:15:30] example.Chenchao: I think this is also an effort we, both sides, need to make an effort. Art: Yeah, and I see that on the U. S. China side as well, there's a perception and, it's hard to say exactly [00:15:45] what the reality is, but there's a perception. That recently, especially that it's not safe for executives to travel to China.Art: And even the U S state department has put out a travel advisory last year about that did warning executives [00:16:00] to, from, for traveling from the U S to China that they may get questioned or may not be able to come back on the exact flight they had originally planned and so forth. So even if those concerns, or even if that's not exactly the way it is in reality.[00:16:15]Art: There's those perceptions, like you said, and that affects real business decisions and planning for investments and audits, like you said it does affect things. And I'll stick with regulations because you mentioned the anti espionage law and, a lot of that has also to do with [00:16:30] some of the.Art: The data regulations that come out, and those have also come out and been implemented very quickly and almost the regulators are trying to catch up because companies have concerns. How do I implement the PIPL in my business? And this doesn't [00:16:45] add up and this doesn't make sense. And the regulators, particularly the cyber security administration there, they've had to.Art: Been in catch up mode, I think, especially the last couple of years. So how have these regulations, of course, Europe is very in Germany, and I'm very familiar with [00:17:00] GDPR and how have these regulations for especially the PIPL in China, the data protection law, how has that affected cross border healthcare collaborations and data sharing recently?Chenchao: Yeah. Thank you, Arda. I think this is [00:17:15] very crucial questions. I think in that field is very also innovative, new, of course, the get challenged by the industries, big tech companies but the AI act, digital market act. So there's a lot of initiative [00:17:30] legislations where your European union employs to be very on the frontier of the regulation of the digital era.Chenchao: GDPR has been for a long time. I think it is very restrictive law. It's protects [00:17:45] the data very strongly, and it's also becomes even, people criticize to be very bureaucratic to be very, noisy. But somehow in the international level, it's also receives a positive [00:18:00] example set by the European Union.Chenchao: This is when it's come to China, also some positive thing to, to tell about the China because the privacy law. It has been improved, has been introduced, and also follow some of the [00:18:15]patterns by GDPR as a good leadership in that regard. But again, the law is only has its value when it's enforced, right?Chenchao: So this is a discrepancy, I think, not only a problem China faces, but in many countries [00:18:30] as well. But in that regard, China is definitely doing better. But, and also there's a concession, I think, also due to the recent diplomatic warm up that China allows data outflow again of company related data for big [00:18:45] companies.Chenchao: I think this is very important to rebuild the trust, rebuild the confidence. I think, similar to the topic of the capital outflow, very sensitive, but also very important topic. And because China need to [00:19:00] have confidence and the favorite investors and company. So I think this was the right step.Chenchao: And I do think this has to be even more in the long term to be rebalanced, renegotiated. When it comes to other legislations as you mentioned, [00:19:15] espionage law, I think in general speaking they are very, of course follow a certain pattern of, what happens in the U. S.,Chenchao: Following the 9 11 Patriot Act. So China tries also to have very strong [00:19:30]regulations and legislative, toolboxes to, to survey and also monitor citizens, companies, and to have very strong executive powers in case of unseen danger for the national security.Chenchao: But the [00:19:45] law is, it's very expensive and very widely weak interpreted. And this is also led to the suspicion and also the threat and by people who read the law just to be very hard to [00:20:00] appropriate when which case applies, which not, I think it does need more concretized formulation to make sure that, no more operations, especially in the very crucial areas in pharmaceutical [00:20:15] manufacturing are not hindered and prohibited.Chenchao: And because I think China as a nation of a modern industry is very keen to become a leadership in digital [00:20:30] health in, in, in clinical trials providers. And also to be, very strong out licensing production site. So China itself need to say a very open environment. And I think the government is more and [00:20:45] more keen to understand that it's not just do a favor for a foreign company, but more and more it's actually very imperative for China.Chenchao: For the Chinese firm to succeed on the global stage, Art: that's a good point. That's a [00:21:00] good way of putting it that, that, maybe in some ways it felt like the regulations are there to protect local Chinese companies, but at some point you don't want to keep protecting them if it means, if it prevents them from becoming globally competitive.Art: So we, and we [00:21:15] touched on the. The market opportunities a bit and some of the macro trends that are shaping the industry and the opportunity there in China. But I wanted to go back to that a bit still. There's an aging population in China and there's also a global increase in kind of [00:21:30] the health consciousness post COVID, especially in China.Art: I noticed when I was living there. So what macro trends do you believe are continuing to reshape the industry in China and pulling. Foreign companies to, to keep working there and keep looking for [00:21:45] opportunities. Chenchao: Yeah, I think China has been facing multiple fronts of challenges, right? I think the big factor you just mentioned is the COVID wave which the implication repercussions are still to be failed and to be seen [00:22:00] and to be recovered.Chenchao: And we have a lot of issues within this company and, we have very strong loss confidence in the stock market in Hong Kong. Almost two digits trailing off value was webbed out and [00:22:15]we have a problem with the company who don't want to go IPO at all. We have property market is collapsing which makes up to almost a one fifth of the GDP.Chenchao: So there's a lot of big issues within the [00:22:30] company within the country. And we have a declining population, we, the population already picked and not only that the number, but also, especially we're talking about an area in India, the population is still very young there under [00:22:45]30 where here is aging very rapidly.Chenchao: And and then also, I think this is something which people hardly want to talk about. Is, we know that the government is very powerful, where it's strong and very directive. But [00:23:00] once you come to people's reproduction the limitation is also to be observed, right? So you cannot dictate everything.Chenchao: And so it's very important to create a society and environment where people feel safe, feel protected, feel [00:23:15] supported to have children. And also to cope with the fact, okay, what do we do as government, as a society, if the birth rate is not increasing, so we have to make people more productive to make sure that we create the opportunity [00:23:30] for people, especially in the health care sector, when it comes to care nursing, I think.Chenchao: And we have a lot of things to catch up when it comes to the systematic education where already a lot of things have been, transferred and learned from the West, especially when [00:23:45] it comes to machinery and automobile, but now it's have to shift more to health care and service areas. And which is already taking place, and this is why China needs open dialogues, open collaboration [00:24:00] with us.Chenchao: It's not only just keep the markets open, but keep the people safe, keep the patients served. And this is something we have to have a longer run, longer view to make sure this is happening. I think this is a very, [00:24:15] pressing issue the Asian population. But I do think, we, we can create a system where it's also the, questions linger in the second level when it's come to the problem of who call, the residency.Chenchao: There's [00:24:30] come to the issue like universal income, and it's a very big disparity of wealth disparity of big. So this are all connected dots, when it's come to the question why people don't want to give birth, why we don't have confidence in [00:24:45] the country to thrive and So I think this is take a long run to, to rebuild everything.Chenchao: But I think it's very good start to really, to ensure very valuable and needed jobs like nursing, healthcare professionals, [00:25:00] and also to tackle the problem of youth unemployment. Art: Yeah, lots of macro challenges there. And it's you're right. The, also the government there, it takes some somewhat of, I guess you could call it like a [00:25:15] paternalistic kind of approach in some ways it doesn't, in some ways it's very hands off, maybe two hands off, but one way it does take the a very, It does get very involved, and especially compared to the U.Art: S. where, the U. S. where health care costs are pretty, pretty out of [00:25:30] control. China has this volume based pricing system to try to control health care costs as best as it can. I know I've used the public health system in China and some of the public hospitals, and I'm amazed at how inexpensive the costs [00:25:45] are.Art: Now, of course, if you're looking, if you're going into the hospitals there in Shanghai, you see they have this very expensive equipment. But they're using it at a mass production kind of scale. You use a CT scan there. It's like a factory. They're getting people in and out. [00:26:00] So I wonder for at least maybe going back to the volume based pricing that a lot of the government requires for firms, including foreign firms that are doing business there.Art: How have foreign firms, let's say from Germany or the EU how have they [00:26:15] struggled with that policy? In, in, In their market approach in China, or maybe they've just learned to adapt to it, right? Maybe it's more similar to some of the pricing policies that they've faced in Europe. The US, of course, is [00:26:30] those companies probably face less of that.Chenchao: Yeah, I think this is a very interesting and impactful for questions. And when it comes to access to healthcare providers and [00:26:45] access to the best solution, innovation and pharmaceuticals. So I think when it comes to procurement strategy, Chinese government, and this is also where you see, central government's power compared to capitalism driven forces in the U.Chenchao: [00:27:00] S. Where, 18 percent GDP are spent on healthcare, where a lot of money is spent, but the outcome is not where we, good compared to much of the cheaper system in the European Union. But when it comes to China, I think there's a lot of reforms happening, [00:27:15] for decades.Chenchao: We have different reforms of Chinese FDA to national it got products and administration. So a lot of things have been changed. And I also, over the 30 provinces in China have been also consolidated to [00:27:30] one central pricing negotiation scheme within central government, which also voice.Chenchao: It's a provincial government competing each other and to set a different level of pricing, which can not be benefiting the patient or [00:27:45] hospital system. So the power of central government negotiates on pricing is very huge. And in China, for many in therapeutic areas, we already see the lowest price.Chenchao: Globally, even lower than some [00:28:00] African countries. So China is very strong when it comes to pushing the price down over 90%. Did a deduction reduction is not a rare. So the questions as you ask, what does it mean for their foreign companies? I think [00:28:15] still many companies, of course, they fall. They say, okay, under certain price, we don't want to play anymore.Chenchao: But big names and the big companies still being not only, I think, just to be in the [00:28:30]market, to please the government, to really be not screwing in nice. It's also because a question of how long the view you took at it. So because I think big companies operating the more strategic long term in decades, not in [00:28:45] years.Chenchao: So they know that it's very important to stay within the system. And they also know the system can work against them in short term, but it can also improve in favor of them in short term. Because Chinese systems is always [00:29:00] dynamic and very flexible. And and also to be fair Chinese population is huge.Chenchao: And that's why even the price is low, even the, perfect margin percentage wise is low, but the absolute number is still [00:29:15] enormous. And I think the second point, Art, is also to mention, because we have observed a strong censorship in China, of course, but, of course, the people and patients can still access a lot of [00:29:30] information outside of China.Chenchao: And they learn and know a lot about innovation happening in China. In the pipelines and the new introduction of drugs, and they want to get it, and they want to say, Hey, why we don't have it. Why is only [00:29:45] access in the Europe and American market. It's a pressure come also from bottom, and this puts the government also in the position to even they don't want to let in maybe too many foreign drugs because they want to promote [00:30:00] the domestic brands, domestic company, also because they're expensive, they don't want to, pay from the, insurance scheme, though, but I think this is very good.Chenchao: Dynamics to help to balance the power to not [00:30:15] only one side to dictate what is sold on the market, but also to make sure and, compared to the extreme in the U. S. That only let the market a player in company to dictate the price and the scheme. So [00:30:30] I think this is what China needs, a balanced approach.Chenchao: I think Europe has a pretty good example to set when we look at Denmark, Germany where it, there's a market dictation, but also government [00:30:45] monitoring. And I think this is a way to go. Art: Yeah, that makes sense. And that's a very good point. You mentioned about it's not just necessarily a top down approach from the Chinese government that they have to be responsive to what [00:31:00]their consumers or the constituents want and they hear about drugs overseas and say, why is that not available here?Art: That's a great point. I think by this interview, you've made it very clear with the audience that this is a topic you can speak very clearly about [00:31:15] and very and a real depth. And I wonder if, 1st, I would encourage again, people to check out your company and website, this great testimonials and endorsements from the companies that you've worked with.Art: It's really impressive, very big name companies. So I can tell the work you're [00:31:30] doing as a. Has a big impact and is getting results. And I wonder if people want to reach out to you. After listening to this show, what's the best way for people to reach out to you? Is it LinkedIn or is it go to your website or all of the above?[00:31:45]Chenchao: Yeah. for for asking. Yeah. I think I'm very easy, accessible to be found on LinkedIn or very easy c.liu@silreal.com. Yeah, happy to hear your [00:32:00] feedback and your comments also on the conversation right now I'm having with art and also have help to any endeavors that might come across.Chenchao: very much. Art: Yeah, that's great. We'll put a link up to the site on the show notes as well. [00:32:15] And and I'm sure people will reach out to you. So once again, Chen Chao, thank you for coming on. It's been a pleasure talking with you.   https://www.asiabusinesspod.com/

Connect with Pilar on LinkedInVisit YCP SolidianceVisit Asia Business Podcast Full show Transcript below Summary and TimestampsOverviewIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Pilar Dieter, CEO of YCP Solidiance, an Asia-focused strategic advisory firm. They discuss the challenges and opportunities in the Asian market, focusing on China's decreasing foreign direct investment (FDI) and the strategies for diversifying supply chains due to geopolitical tensions and supply chain resiliency. Pilar provides insights into the factors leading to net capital outflows from China, the impact of global perceptions on investment, and the shift toward domestic consumption driving growth in China. The conversation also covers the trend of businesses de-risking by moving operations from China to Southeast Asia, India, or nearshoring to places like Mexico, and how YCP Solidiance facilitates this transition. They delve into industry-specific shifts, the increasing interest of Chinese companies in outbound investment, and the importance of strategic and post-merger integration services in navigating the complexities of the Asian market. The episode wraps up with how companies can reach Pilar and YCP Solidiance for strategic advice and support. Timestamps00:00 Welcome to the Asia Business Podcast with Pilar Dieter00:57 Deep Dive into China's Business Landscape01:49 Navigating Supply Chain Resilience and Diversification03:21 The Future of Foreign Direct Investment in China06:05 De-risking Strategies for Global Supply Chains11:20 Exploring New Markets: The Shift in Asian Investment Patterns23:09 The Role of Strategic Advisory in Global Business Expansion28:07 M&A Trends in Asia: Insights and Opportunities36:03 Closing Thoughts and Contact Information TranscriptArt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia business podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. And today we have the true pleasure of welcoming Pilar Dieter. She is the chief executive officer at YCP Salidians. YCP Salidians is an [00:00:15] Asia focused strategic advisory firm with 17 offices worldwide, predominantly in Asia.Art: Welcome, Pilar. Pilar: Thank you, Art. It's a true pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Art: Yeah, we've talked about [00:00:30] doing this for a while now. And we both had recent visits to China. And so I think we've got plenty to talk about. We're gonna I think China is going to be a big part of what we talk about today.Art: But as we said at the top, your firm is a big presence all throughout Asia. And I think it's [00:00:45]going to be interesting to do a bit of comparison between different parts of that region and see what's going on. So I'm happy to get into it today and really looking forward to it. Pilar: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to the exchange as well.Art: Great. Let's off maybe with With China. And I [00:01:00] know you guys work a lot with the sort of the top fortune 500 companies there. But also you work with them throughout Asia and beyond. And we've seen a lot of statistics come out lately where looking at the net capital outflows from China after [00:01:15] years and years of inbound investment increasing year after year.Art: And do you see that trend reversing anytime soon? And if so, the trend of the negative outflows, negative inflows, I should say. Do you see that trend reversing [00:01:30] anytime soon? And if so, what sectors might it reverse in? Pilar: I think the way to determine whether or not this is something that would reverse is it's first important to understand why that F.Pilar: D. I. into China has decreased over the last few years. So there's a couple, [00:01:45] I would point to three things. Two are obvious, one might be a little less obvious. So I would point to number one, really the supply chain resiliency move. This concept of. Diversifying supply chains. This isn't a sudden thing.Pilar: We can track [00:02:00] this back to really 2016 2015 era, even before trade tariffs were starting to come into play. So a lot of conversation around why diversification matters in supply chains. That's 1 of the reasons that you're starting to see a little bit of that [00:02:15] decline in F. D. I. The other one, another obvious element is the geopolitical tension.Pilar: Lots of media attention that's driving and easily influencing the way that U. S. corporations or multinational corporations are really viewing China with a bit [00:02:30] more of a fine tooth comb before making really readily decisions to make big investment into China because of the beauty of the growing market and the size of the market.Pilar: But I'd say the third and maybe less obvious. Point that would be directed to why [00:02:45] FDI in China is decreasing is when you actually talk to some of the bank leadership in China, they will actually point to a decrease due to companies moving liquid capital out of China as a result of interest rates coming down [00:03:00] markedly And that, I think, when we looked at what was happening during COVID times, China interest rates were obviously quite high compared to other countries, making it a little bit more of an attractive play.Pilar: So now, with the decrease continuing that seems to be something that [00:03:15] others, especially domestically or regionally, that I was talking to when I was in Shanghai a couple days ago or weeks ago were also pointing to. But to your point about, Given these realities of why FDI has declined, do I see this trend reversing?Pilar: My short answer is [00:03:30] no, not in the short term and for the USA, most decidedly, not in this election year. The two main reasons I would point to for this, though, would really be, while China still would like to maintain strong performance on [00:03:45] investment, when GDP numbers and their aggressive growth target of 5 percent that's been stated by Xi Jinping.Pilar: What we end up seeing is the investment lever of GDP is something that has been a big driver for them achieving their growth rates. But at this point in [00:04:00] time, the investment lever is taking a back seat. To some of the consumption activities that they're trying to really influence and push.Pilar: So I would say, looking internally in China, they're really going to be focused more on domestic consumption to be able to drive that [00:04:15] growth. And then the second reason why I would say that the trend might not be reversing, at least within this next year, Is US companies are just continuing to face more scrutiny within their own organizations.Pilar: Whenever I see clients trying US [00:04:30] clients in particular, trying to make decisions on deeper investment in China, whether that's through acquisition or through basic investment into greenfield or brownfield plants, or even finding new supply base that might actually be Chinese based. [00:04:45] It's coming with a very high higher bar in terms of scrutinizing whether or not it's the right partner.Pilar: So bottom line not reversing I would say within the foreseeable future being at least 12 to 18 months out Art: Yeah, and I'm [00:05:00] sure you got this question a lot when you visited China as well, both even from friends and business people in China, asking you maybe when, when do you think things will get better as far as the investment there and stuff.Art: I certainly got that. I just got back and got that a lot. [00:05:15] And I agree. It's part of it is it's. It's perception and reality, right? The reality is the Chinese economy is not doing well. And so that probably, as you said, might be the biggest factor, even beyond anything we read about in the news [00:05:30] and the headlines and the politics of of of, not great relations between the U S and China right now.Art: And at the same time I hear what you're saying too, with some of my own clients getting internal pushback for any, anything that, you know, because, and again, [00:05:45] that might be more of just as much perception of what they see in the headlines of the wall street journal or whatnot, and say why are we investing there more?Art: I thought it was getting harder, whether or not that's true or not. That's at least we can say that perception is there, and that's not going to help make [00:06:00] that fight any to get increased investment any easier internally, like you said. You see then, I guess it goes without saying that companies are de risking from China and moving either to Southeast Asia or India, if [00:06:15] it's manufacturing or even coming back closer to home let's say, Mexico.Art: Do you, are you actually with, internally at your firm trying to position yourself? As a bridge for that that de risking, where clients say we've [00:06:30] really valued all the advice you've given us in China we see you have offices all throughout Asia.Art: How have you guys been helping clients through that process a lot recently? Pilar: It would be relatively [00:06:45] relatively easy to say absolutely a hundred percent. I think that it wants, we want to caveat this a bit because I think the question oftentimes when our clients come to us and say, hey, here's our direction.Pilar: We've decided we need to de risk or sometimes the [00:07:00] terminology becomes anti fragility and that concept really means putting us putting our company or the client in a state where we are not subjected to the exogenous effects of any global economic player. [00:07:15] That could impact our business so detrimentally.Pilar: So put another way. Make us bulletproof, help us figure out what can we do, whether it's, taking these out of China and putting them into Southeast Asia, bringing things [00:07:30] nearshore, reshore, friendshore, back over to Mexico. Those are the common go tos. But what we have found is it helps to actually bring the client before they come to us with, here's our decision.Pilar: We want to take factories or [00:07:45] take suppliers out of China and move them to somewhere else in the world. We say let's take a step back and try to understand what is your objective here? And a lot of times when you really peel those layers back, what you're starting to hear the client say is we don't want to have another [00:08:00] COVID impact our complete business.Pilar: We also don't want another, whether it's a pandemic or it's a landshoreman strike in Los Angeles, or it's some kind of labor union strike in Europe, or it's pirates [00:08:15] in the Panama Canal, all of these global realities is what's causing us to reconsider. Are we securely operating and supply chain is the natural 1st place to go.Pilar: When you hear companies jump immediately to, we need to. [00:08:30] de risk and reshore. I think those can actually they're not mutually exclusive, so when you can separate them, you can actually unpeel a lot more on this de risking piece as opposed to the reshoring piece. But to come back to the [00:08:45] specifics of your question, are we seeing clients wanting this?Pilar: Yeah, definitely. We have one client, for example, in Furniture manufacturing, right? So a sector that is very well entrenched in China, they had been sourcing probably 70 percent of [00:09:00] their products out of China maybe doing some sub assembly in places like Mexico, and this was an American company and what they decided, and this was probably about a year or two after COVID lockdown ended and they said, [00:09:15] we really want to figure out a way to.Pilar: Bring this back home. So we want to double down on our investment in Mexico. Now, as you rightedly pointed out at the onset, we're more of an Asia based firm, but because we recognize the need for this [00:09:30] kind of pivot, we made a small investment in Guadalajara, Mexico, where we now have a small team that supported specifically these kinds of requests.Pilar: And this example on the furniture company is not, is only one, but I think it highlights the point where we took this [00:09:45] client and said Okay. What are the components or products that are coming out of China for you? We did the cost arbitrage of which products were the most expensive to relocate versus those that might be easier to relocate and wouldn't disrupt their supply chain too dramatically, but bring them additional cost [00:10:00] savings.Pilar: And in doing that, we ended up going through a, an MNA process in Mexico to help them find not just suppliers, but actually some manufacturing footprints that they could. Absorb and take over and move on. So in that example, I would argue that it [00:10:15] wasn't so politically driven. There wasn't the motivation was more on cost management.Pilar: China is no longer the cheapest place to source furniture. Not to say that Mexico is significantly cheaper, but when you put the landed cost calculations into play, [00:10:30] you do start to see. Some benefits there. Art: Yeah. And shipping, like you said, the risk of factory shutdowns, that's not necessarily a political risk.Art: China, I guess everything can be somewhat political but that's the, The supply chain disruptions, [00:10:45] that, that's something that is maybe wasn't as much of an issue, but you're seeing your clients and helping your clients price that additional risk into their calculations and then it's at a place like Mexico makes more sense.Art: I wonder if that's going to be, or, if you're seeing that as a trend for not just. [00:11:00] traditional multinational companies, American or European based, but even Asian companies and even Chinese companies realizing, Hey maybe this whole, the potential for supply chain disruption, obviously it affects our business as a Chinese manufacturer just as [00:11:15] much.Art: Maybe we need to diversify our own supply chain out into other parts of the world. And are you seeing that directly or indirectly? And how would you describe that phenomenon?Pilar: Yeah, I would. And I think it's very industry specific. So [00:11:30] what you find is when these companies that are the larger players decide to make any kind of further investment outside of China, their ecosystem that they have spent decades truly building up in China, which is what makes China such a [00:11:45] beautiful manufacturing prowess because they did masterfully put together complete communities really in certain industries that would be pockets for Supporting those large manufacturers take.Pilar: Automotive is the easy go to [00:12:00] example. So when you have the large, the starting point of those big companies saying, okay we've been manufacturing in Chongqing for decades, and all of our component suppliers are conveniently just [00:12:15] kilometers away from us. We now are going to make our next investment.Pilar: We're not shutting anything down. We're not moving anything away, but we're making our next investment in Fill in the blank, Vietnam, India, Indonesia, wherever. And as a result of that, we are asking you, Mr. [00:12:30] Supplier, to make a move as well. Are we seeing this mass exodus of complete comprehensive supply chains not evacuating China and moving elsewhere, but making their further investment overseas?Pilar: Yes, I would say that from our firm's standpoint, [00:12:45] we're seeing an uptick in the inquiry. About how to make that possible. We also have seen an increase in our clientele mix. Normally our clients were predominantly Western clientele with certain. A lot of [00:13:00] Japanese and a lot of Indian domestics also as our key clientele, but not so many Chinese.Pilar: Native domestic clients up 2 years. That and their inquiries are all about export opportunities. Where can I [00:13:15] be outside of China that can also be a market opportunity for me to serve these customers that have always been part of my ecosystem and are now possibly opening up a whole new market for me to be a part of?Pilar: So I would say that we [00:13:30] are seeing that as far as the companies that we're finding, looking for overseas, going outside of China Japan is another one. So we at YCP, our founder is Japanese. We were born [00:13:45] in Japan. We are publicly listed and traded on the Japanese stock exchange. And our largest revenue contributor in terms of our firm is our Japanese office.Pilar: Given that I'm now coming at you with a perspective of the [00:14:00] Japanese mindset and what their businesses are starting to do and looking at the Asia, Asia picture. And when they look at that Asia map, a lot of our Japanese clients are starting to have an elevated focus in [00:14:15] expanding artifi, not China.Pilar: There's a Japanese India corridor that's starting to open up. You can see with Kishida just here last week all of the increased investment ambition that they have, that Japanese have for for the U. S., which [00:14:30] is not to be understated. And really what you're finding there are some very salient examples that we work in more in the retail and consumer goods categories, as well as food and beverage, that these Japanese companies are seeking [00:14:45] outbound opportunities.Pilar: Amen. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this to art, but I think one of the One of the examples we have with some Chinese companies, and I'm going to give you to illustrate how Chinese [00:15:00] companies without that whole ecosystem example, I laid out in the beginning on the automotive case, but how some Chinese companies are starting to view outbound investment.Pilar: And. The first thing I would highlight is one of our clients is in the artificial intelligence and [00:15:15] technology sector, and clearly, AI plays a very sensitive role, especially when you're talking about Chinese AI looking to invest outside of China. But in this case they, we are working with this company to find joint venture partners [00:15:30] because their ambition to get out of China is exceptionally high because they are worried that the market cap in China is already too low for them as well as already quite inundated with domestic players that have more [00:15:45] government influence. The 2nd indicator I would share with you. The 2nd client I would share with you is no surprise in the energy sector, a solar panel manufacturer in China. Who is eagerly exploring where they can be moving [00:16:00] to in what markets are going to be welcoming and accepting of their equipment and products.Pilar: In the US and Europe. So couple that with a lot of the, you have Janet Yellen just recently returning from her visit and making a very pointed [00:16:15] statement about no anti dumping. We don't need your overcapacity problems to influence us. And solar panels is right up there on the list. So this is an example to where you can see the overcapacity element, [00:16:30] which is a structural challenge.Pilar: China has is another factor. That's going to play into more Asian companies seeking those outbound investment opportunities. I would say.Art: Yeah, that mirrors like you alluded to that that mirrors what I'm seeing too. What you [00:16:45]described is in your role as a strategic consultant is very similar to my role as a legal consultant.Art: It's that, that shift from have starting to see Chinese companies have more and more interest to go outbound and needing professional advice. [00:17:00] And, willing to pay for that professional advice, which is, was not as in the old days was a little bit harder. So that's an an interesting development.Art: And I also think that the similarly, like clients are coming to the U S or out of China, not [00:17:15]so much because because as you said, China is so competitive, right? And so it's actually. Maybe the second example you use is better with the solar panels or where there's a more less competition and more.Art: There's at least some margin to have in the US being a high [00:17:30] margin place for a lot of different products still compared to China. That seems to be the biggest push that I've seen for companies as well. Art: And it's interesting you mentioned the AI case. I totally get that. That's. Yeah, that for a lot of reasons, I could see that there be there would [00:17:45] be limitations on what they can potentially, their ceiling in China, what they can do there.Art: And so that makes if they have the fundamental technology that may totally make sense that they would be looking to move out or sooner rather than later. Yeah. And it also begs the question where, you know, The whole [00:18:00] domicile of these companies and, like moving around, is it Singaporean companies and Chinese company?Art: You can, of course you can say the same thing about U. S. companies, right? That so many multinational quote U. S. companies get less than half their revenue from the U. S. And so [00:18:15]what does that make them, right? So many French. Fashion companies make much more money in China than they make in Europe.Art: So are they a Chinese fashion brand or are they, L'Oreal or something like that? Certainly if you ask them, they would never say so, but knowing some people that work at L'Oreal [00:18:30] but yeah I, it's, And I guess that gets to my, my, my next question, of the the solar panel example and the potential for dumping anti dumping countervailing duties on on exports to the U S and [00:18:45] E and EU potentially, how much, cause that's so much of a must be so much of what goes into your analysis of, for your, and advice for your clients.Art: Do you ever, Market that as [00:19:00] it's not necessarily like a standalone like service Hey, we also offer this political risk advisory bucket of us as a service, or it's just always part of what you do. You don't have to break it out as a separate kind of business line or separate cut because there are firms that's [00:19:15] clearly this do that, right?Art: So I don't know if you're thinking of integrating that kind of a service into what you already do. Pilar: Yeah, I wouldn't say we do it to the degree of the risk factors that a company like control risks, for example, might do, or even a law firm [00:19:30] like yours. But when you talk about a go to market strategy, you will oftentimes find that the pestle analysis and what's going on with, political instability and perceptions of a Chinese entity coming into a certain [00:19:45] market. What? How will that withstand the test of time and built on that macroeconomic perspective on the industry and that market we then go ahead and build out some of the detailed strategic plan of how do you bring your product to [00:20:00] this market?Pilar: Who are the distributors? What's the channel? Who are the customers? The competition? Typical strategy engagement. What I will share, and I think that this is actually quite fascinating, is I recently had a Chinese client who was exploring the [00:20:15] U. S. market, and they asked us, as part of our go to market roadmapping, and again, like I shared in the beginning, We aren't extensive in the U.Pilar: S. But when we have Chinese clients who are working with our China team, and they have a U. S. element, they bring in our small team in the U. S. [00:20:30] to help them with this. And this client on a call, Chinese executive said, now, tell me when we're going through the site selection phase of this project.Pilar: We really need to understand what regions in the U. S. are [00:20:45] amenable to working with Chinese people. very much. And where are the risks the highest because of gun policy, these were, it didn't necessarily take me back, but it just it was not a typical question [00:21:00] when doing these kinds of risk analyses and.Pilar: Ability to work in a certain country, those are things that you just don't think of people being so concerned with, but it was a legitimate fear and a legitimate. Component that went into the decision [00:21:15] making process for this company of where do we even want to go? Is it Texas, Alabama or Minnesota?Pilar: And. The reasons we're not just, an Excel spreadsheet rationale of a cost savings benefit analysis. So it comes into a lot [00:21:30] more of the social factors of how these. Foreign companies are starting to invest to Art: well, that's interesting. I have, I don't know if I've heard exactly that kind of a question, but I have heard that kind of it's I'm no longer [00:21:45] surprised if that came up either in a client inquiry, you and I probably think why is that so relevant?Art: We're not to diminish the, not to diminish that there is a real, Problem there with crime and gun violence and all of that sort of thing, but wouldn't necessarily. Yeah, [00:22:00] you and I wouldn't think of that as being a material factor in deciding, like you said, site selection. But yeah, Pilar: more generally, Art: yeah, things have changed.Art: There's a couple things there. One is I think there's probably a sensitivity more broadly to, [00:22:15] especially from Chinese companies or any international companies of how they'll be perceived in the local community, right? And so culturally they'll fit in. And so for that, so that's relevant. Whereas maybe we wouldn't think that should be relevant.Art: But these days, it maybe it [00:22:30] is. And so some states, like you said, Texas might be a little more open these days to foreign to, to companies coming in with foreign investment than others. And then you've got, That's would go back to what we said more at the top of this whole perception [00:22:45] versus reality.Art: Again, got crime and gun violence is definitely a problem. That's that is a reality. But maybe the perception in, let's say, China of how bad things are in the US, it could be even worse. So that we're [00:23:00] all somewhat of and we're the same way here. We're all a bit of a victim of. Where we get our information from, right?Art: So Pilar: absolutely. Art: Yeah. I was, cause, cause I've, I, we've talked about some of the clients that you've worked with anonymously. We've talked about some of the [00:23:15] clients you've worked with before since stories I've heard one to one talking with you over coffee, but I thought it would be great if you could share with our audience any more specific examples of.Art: How you walk the client through the whole process, [00:23:30] right? Because I think What you do, of course, is very valuable, but still, there's probably, and I expect, especially with Chinese clients, there's still some, a bit of a learning curve for them. On how the value they get from working with you.Art: So I'd be curious [00:23:45] how you what's the typical process, especially for a new client coming on board, how you help them solve the strategic problem. Pilar: Yeah thank you for the question. I think. With the clientele makeup that we have, as I mentioned before, Western clients, and I put [00:24:00] Japan in that bundle and let's just for argument's sake, put India in that bundle too, probably represent about 80 to 90 percent of our clients.Pilar: So our volume of Chinese clients is small, but growing mightily which I'm very proud of. So taking it from the perspective of [00:24:15] that larger massive clientele who come to us, they typically come to us and their problem statement is, I need to grow. The only region geographically that's growing for our industry is Asia Pacific.Pilar: Help me figure out how to crack [00:24:30] that. And many times, especially with multinationals, they've got a very solid footprint already. It's not as if they need the one on, what is India's GDP and population? What they're really after is, you know, help me [00:24:45] understand how to compete locally, and this is becoming more and more relevant for our China clients as well.Pilar: So the kind of services that they are looking for that we often are being asked to support them in is both [00:25:00] formulating that strategic plan. And then actually delivering it, so what that turns into is sitting down with the client and saying, let's get a both an inside out and an outside in perspective.Pilar: Let's understand your business operations, [00:25:15] understand your business model. Look at what your core services are. How do we expand that core and grow beyond it? Whether that means other products, other geographies, other partners, and then how do we even go well beyond that core for the [00:25:30] future, 10 to 15 year vision?Pilar: And that might be, going into something that is so foreign to what they are today. If they're an HVAC company, for example, going beyond the core might mean, okay, let's go from, Heating and venting and just air conditioning units [00:25:45] into something like building security. That's adjacent, but then what would be way out there?Pilar: Maybe we can start getting into, artificial intelligence for temperature controls in cities where [00:26:00] climate change is affecting the way in which those the air quality and pollution is working. But, that's moonshot. So we, they come to us and say, how do we grow the core, expand the core and go well beyond the core?Pilar: And what are some of those immediate? [00:26:15] Activities that we need to take on. So those initiatives take anywhere from, 2 to 4 months and it's very intensive because like I said, inside out means we talk with client outside in means we're going out and doing field research. So we're speaking with their [00:26:30] customers and competitors to really get a perspective of the market, because as I like to say, to my clients, your opinion on what you should do while possibly interesting is totally irrelevant.Pilar: The market is what matters. So we're always [00:26:45] telling our client. You have to understand what your customers are after and where they're going instead of just forcing your opinion, which is probably very closely aligned to be fair, but you really need that outside in. Once we have that whole [00:27:00] map identified, we build out the whole execution plan.Pilar: We then go into delivery mode and that delivery mode looks a lot like a business transformation exercise. It's. Activating anything from a sales and marketing [00:27:15] perspective. It's implementing some organizational changes, adopting a new digital strategy and technology innovation program within that company as well.Pilar: And that's all done under kind of our guidance and leadership to carry that through. And that's really [00:27:30] where the value is. We have a tagline that you'll find on our website that's called Strategy Delivered. And that's exactly what it is. It's the delivery of that strategy or a strategy they've already defined elsewhere.Art: Got it. Okay. [00:27:45] That's fantastic because I, I can I can tell just by going on the website that you have these wonderful testimonials, which I'm sure it didn't take too much prodding to get from your clients because they've seen, they all seem quite happy with the work that you've done at this.Art: That's what [00:28:00] struck me as I don't see many firms with that many amazing kind of testimonials on their site. So it's just a tribute to the work that you guys do. And the last thing I wanted to touch on because I know speaking of your firm, I know historically so much of The work that you've done over the years has been M.Art: N. A. [00:28:15] Related and, and the testimonials also speak to that. So I wonder if you could comment a bit about obviously M. N. A. or globally has slowed down. As you mentioned, the interest rates changing, increasing over the last few years, and [00:28:30] I'm sure that's 1 of the primary factors. D.Art: What are you seeing? Any trends in the region as far as M. N. A. Activity and. And who is active and who and how things may or may not change in the near future. Pilar: Yeah, no, I think you've hit on [00:28:45] it and just, 1 of the things I was looking into is just as far as Chinese M& A deals and how they have slipped.Pilar: It's been pretty severe. So when you look at M& A deals in 2023, they were at about 2, 500, according to [00:29:00] S& P. When you look at 2022, the year before, they were. At 2, 598. There it's just, it's a small decline, but it's definitely directional and going in that area. And in 2019, they were the lowest for [00:29:15] the whole decade at.Pilar: Just at 2, 500 this seems to be the sweet spot number for the last 5 years. What. We anticipate is we do see a little bit of uptick in our M and a practice. But it is, again, industry [00:29:30] centric, so some of the categories where we see it is energy. So some of our clients in the energy space, whether it be oil and gas, new energy, battery storage and energy transmission and then also on [00:29:45] the telecom media and technology, the sector that seems to be driving as well.Pilar: There's also, in terms of our anecdotal experience, automotive, we're seeing quite a bit, and we would actually bundle the EV piece under there, more so [00:30:00] than energy, but on that mobility piece, just to give you a case example, we are working right now on 2 separate deals tied to China, and it's 1 of them is, On the buy side, the other on the sell [00:30:15] side.Pilar: So on the buy side, it's in the automotive aftermarket, and this, sheds light on foreign companies open to and willing to invest in acquiring Chinese players. Not opposed to finding a Chinese [00:30:30]company that would be a good fit from, A product standpoint for export, a product standpoint from getting deeper into the market.Pilar: So it's to hit both. The valuations Art: are probably pretty attractive these days, especially for Chinese. That are pegged to the Chinese [00:30:45] capital markets for P ratios and stuff, so forth. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. And then, on the sell side example, we've got one company that does have a plant there and in.Pilar: Latin America, and they are in the process [00:31:00] of trying to explore not for geopolitical reasons, purely just owner ready to exit. They are also looking to explore potential buyers from anywhere in the world, and they have their hypothesis is we believe the buyer should be a Chinese buyer. [00:31:15] And that's been an aggressive play on the sell side.Art: And, for those kind of I'm curious how you work with folks because a lot of these companies in Asia that you might be working with and are acquisitive [00:31:30] in these days are they green at all? Do you have to walk them through more of the process as far as, how you, you think about going about a deal and on, then on the backend, getting ready for the, the post merger integration.Art: How has your team traditionally [00:31:45] helped companies, let's say maybe that are a little less experienced in M& A. Pilar: Yeah, there's, there is a bit of the not just on The tactics of acquisition and deal transaction, but also on the on the landscape of the markets that we're [00:32:00] talking about.Pilar: So sometimes when the remit or the mandate is a pan Asia, and we showcase Indonesian company, a Thai company, a Chinese company, and a Japanese company, there's a separate section outlining, here's a Japanese. [00:32:15] that you need to be aware of on top of, everything else. So that's something to be thinking about with regards to helping companies do this.Pilar: It's actually quite common that the individuals within these organizations that are working [00:32:30] on these deals come with enough background in, in transactions, whether they're bankers themselves and they've just gone in house. Or that they've done deals within the company before and they just get it.Pilar: Or a third example is they may be private equity owned. And so they're [00:32:45] having the PE guys get involved in the project. So either way, the amount of education possibly needed and how the transaction works isn't necessarily something that we're finding ourselves having to do. I will share though, that on the post merger [00:33:00] integration, that's a key core competence of ours.Pilar: And that's, Essentially, when you look at our founder and I started, I gave you that whole Japanese background, but our founder, Japanese gentleman by the name of Yuki Ishida, he actually is former Goldman Sachs guy. [00:33:15] So he's Columbia university educated, spent a lot of time in the States, but has that knack for investments.Pilar: And so when YCP was first started, it was all on the concept of Taking M& A deals [00:33:30]and then helping them implement and integrate and realize the synergies that they went after in the first place. So we go through and do PMI all the time with clients. And what I think is most telling is we ourselves are quite acquisitive and [00:33:45] having done, on record, I think we've probably finished about.Pilar: three, maybe four deals in the last two years. So we ourselves walk our talk. We have a very structured methodology. How does the first hundred day plan go? How many BD [00:34:00] interactions do you have? What's the HR and the closing activities? So it's it's kind of part of our DNA. But when talking about, what are clients doing in China right now with regards to M& A, I think that there is definitely heightened interest again and it's [00:34:15] encouraging to see because, like you said, the valuation is there, but I would argue that it's probably some of the smaller sized companies that don't have to go through so many hoops to jump through in the boardrooms at your fortune fifties, where they've got a little bit of a concern around [00:34:30] making deeper investment in China.Art: That makes sense. But no, nevertheless, you guys are well positioned I think, I would guess, especially because you have your DNA in Asia and the deep experience there and that focus there. I imagine the PMI is, so much of it is [00:34:45] just as much kind of the cultural integration as it is anything else, and that put, I can't think of anyone, more focused than you guys on in Asia.Art: So I think that's probably, it's another thing that makes you guys stand out. To help on that part of the process. Pilar: [00:35:00] Thanks. Art: Yeah I think. Pilar I think people listen to this, there's going to be no shortage of people that want to reach out and it could be anywhere from an inquiry, about potential, potentially helping them or or, other ways to work with you.Art: What is [00:35:15] traditionally the best way people can reach out to you? Is it LinkedIn or go to the, your website or how should people contact you? Pilar: Yeah, that's a great question. And both are very valuable. So my LinkedIn is publicly available. I encourage people to follow up with [00:35:30] me.Pilar: I'm quite responsive there. And then also, yes, our website does have. Direct access with reforms to to reach our team and your inquiries, if they are specific to a certain geography or a certain industry. Are directed to the [00:35:45] most appropriate partner within our firm. As you mentioned, there's about 400 plus people in our organization and we've got well over 20 partners.Pilar: So there's a lot of industry specialization and there's also a lot of geographic specialization. And I'm always happy to make sure that you're [00:36:00] connected to the right folks as well. Art: Great. Thanks Pilar for joining. It's been fascinating. I think we hit on a lot of topics that, that are really hot and in the news these days.Art: And I think the audience will get quite a bit out of listening to this episode.Pilar: Art, like I said at the beginning, I was, I've been looking forward to [00:36:15] this. So thank you for making it happen. And we're excited to be partnering and collaborating with you.Pilar: So congratulations on this great podcast program. You've been developing and driving for the last few years. Art: Thanks. Much appreciated. Thank you again for coming on the show.   https://www.asiabusinesspod.com/

IN this episode we touch on the following and so much more: Balancing the demands of being a professional athlete and personal life. Other interests or hobbies that I'm passionate about outside of the snowboarding world. How sport has influenced my personal growth and development as an individual. Being a part of the RBC Olympian Program. How I managed working while also staying committed to my athletic pursuits. Serving as an Athlete Representative for Canada Snowboard Volunteering and Youth Olympics 2020 Mental Health Awareness. Hosting a Podcast. Coaching Courses and Mentorship. "Ride with an Olympian" at Whistler Blackcomb. Let me know your answers to this episodes rapid fire! Mercedes: 10 Rapid fire questions  Favorite Type of Exercise: Do you prefer cardio workouts, strength training, or something else for exercise? Most Recent Hobby: Have you picked up any new hobbies or interests recently? Favorite Childhood TV Show: What was your favorite TV show when you were a child? Dream Vacation Destination: If you could go on a dream vacation right now, where would you go? Preferred Type of Weather: Do you enjoy sunny days, rainy weather, or a bit of both? Last Movie You Watched: What's the last movie you watched, and did you enjoy it? Favorite Type of Art: Do you have a favorite form of art, like painting, sculpture, or photography? Morning Routine Must-Have: Is there one thing you must do every morning to start your day right? Favorite Board Game or Card Game: What's your go-to board game or card game for a fun night with friends or family? Best Piece of Advice Received: What's the most valuable piece of advice you've ever received, and did you follow it?

Charlie Kirk, not an anti-Semite! Naphtali Bennett, beta! Wiki quotes women. George Floyd, "You can't win!" Ariana Grande, homewrecker! The Hake Report, October 16, 2023 AD TIME STAMPS * (0:00:00) Rough Start* (0:01:07) Topics: Charlie Kirk, Israel ex-PM, Women, BLM victims, Ari* (0:03:22) Hey, guys! Yellow pocket tee* (0:04:52) Alleged 'hate crime' against Muslim child* (0:11:45) ALEX, TX: Alpha jerky should be dry and hard!* (0:14:18) Charlie Kirk is not an anti-Semite!* (0:20:03) Ben Domenech, Meghan McCain's husband!* (0:24:48) TPUSA hit piece by AP* (0:33:01) WILLIAM: Dealing with older black gals* (0:36:55) WILLIAM: Israel, no conspiracy, military* (0:42:10) Naphtali Bennett beta interview, not like Bibi* (0:50:11) "Fight" - Okay (2005, High Road)* (0:54:53) LATINA, CA: Don't take sides, foreign wars* (0:56:27) ART, OH: Why not say G**f, this is America!* (1:02:16) ART: Israel war and liberals on both sides* (1:06:06) ART: Do you have animus, animosity? Bible* (1:08:22) "Solidarity" with Iranian women (2022)* (1:14:04) Meme: "This is a human being worthy of respect" * (1:16:36) Hashtag SheSaid: "Wiki Loves Women" QUOTES (self-esteem)* (1:27:55) George Floyd vid, black oldtimer: "You can't win!"* (1:37:44) Conviction in Elijah McClain case (BLM victim)* (1:42:56) Ariana Grande, "not a girl's girl," married live-in bf* (1:51:01) Closing / "Easter Rise Up" - Mary Rice HopkinsBLOG https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2023/10/16/the-hake-report-mon-10-16-23 PODCAST by HAKE SubstackLive M-F 9-11 AM PT (11-1 CT / 12-2 ET) Call-in 1-888-775-3773 – thehakereport.com  VIDEO  YouTube  |  Rumble*  |  Facebook  |  X  |  BitChute  |  Odysee*  PODCAST  Apple  |  Spotify  |  Castbox  |  Substack  (RSS)  *SUPER CHAT on asterisked above, or  BuyMeACoffee  |  Streamlabs  |  Ko-fi  SUPPORT HAKE  Substack  |  SubscribeStar  |  Locals  ||  SHOP  Teespring  ALSO SEE  Hake News on The JLP Show  |  Appearances (other shows, etc.)  JLP Network:  JLP  |  Church  |  TFS  |  Hake  |  Nick  |  Joel  |  Hassan   Get full access to HAKE at thehakereport.substack.com/subscribe

On this week's episode, I'm excited to bring on Rebecca Roberts as a guest.Rebecca is a mindset coach, storyshaper, and spacemaker. She's got a deep curiosity for exploring the old beliefs and inner dialogues that shape our behavior and experience of life. These are the thoughts that lead us towards either consistent frustration or deep fulfillment.She knows from her own life experience that sometimes, only a single thought stands between heaviness and lightness of being. She felt chained down by the old stories she believed about herself…what she could and couldn't do, how she should or shouldn't be…why she was or wasn't worthy of love and belonging.She now knows that the key to freedom lies within our own minds and our chosen stories. This work changed her life, and she has immense gratitude for the chance to accompany others in reigniting their natural spark and lightness in life.Connect with RebeccaLinkedInYouTubeRecommended Books:1. Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones2. War of Art--Do you invest in the stock market?Here's a strategy you can use today to help you grow your portfolio to 7-figures in half the time (compared to the buy and hold strategy).This conservative strategy can generate generous income (25-30% a year) and has outperformed SPY for over a decade.The best part? This strategy takes less than 30-minutes a month to execute.Learn for FREE here: https://www.optionsellingsecrets.com/ --Required disclosures: No statement on this video or comments is to be construed as an endorsement, recommendation or solicitation to purchase or sell any security, or to provide investment advice. Options involve risk and are not suitable for all investors. Prior to buying or selling an option, a person must receive a copy of the disclosure document, Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options. Individuals should not enter into option transactions until they have read and understood this document. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Returns are by no means guaranteed. Your investments may lose value. Achieving a 7-figure index fund portfolio in half the time is not guaranteed.

On todays episode of LET THERE BE TALK my guest is Artist, Craftsman and Fashion designer Mr Blaine Halvorson. Blaine is the owner of one of the coolest companies ever "MADEWORN" MADEWORN makes some of the best ROCK N ROLL CONCERT T-SHIRTS I've ever seen in my life. Blaine also makes LEATHER JACKETS,BOOTS,DENIM and many other things all by Hand. This guy is the definition of Art Do not miss this epic episode.

How we're going to start incorporating video into our podcast episodes and the five TinyBit core values with Bjork Ostrom. ----- Welcome to episode 300 of The Food Blogger Pro Podcast! This week on the podcast, we’re celebrating our 300th episode and talking about what you can expect in future podcast episodes. Core Values  It’s a milestone episode today, and we’re celebrating by talking about our core values as a company and how they impact what we do each and every day. Thank you for listening to The Food Blogger Pro Podcast –– whether this is your first episode or your 300th. We appreciate our Food Blogger Pro Podcast community so very much, and we’re thrilled and honored to be on this journey with you! Here’s to many more episodes.

This week we review a fascinating epidemiological study from the University of Ottawa on the impact of assisted reproductive technologies (ART) and twins on the rates of congenital heart disease. What is the more important factor in the development of congenital heart disease - twin pregnancy or ART? Do all ART pregnancies require a fetal echo? We speak with 3 world authorities - epidemiologist Dr. Shi Wu Wen, pediatric cardiologist Dr. Jane Lougheed and fertility expert, Dr. Arthur Leader - all professors at the University of Ottawa. A fascinating topic and discussion! DOI: 10.1001/jamapediatrics.2019.6096

In diesem Podcast habe ich Dirk Wilfling zu Gast. Dirk ist Gründer des Startups Algoly. Algoly ist eine Art Do it Yourself Baukasten für Big Data. In diesem Podcast verrät Dirk… … welche Use Cases sich damit abbilden lassen … wie so ein Projekt abläuft … und wie man mithilfe von "No Code" Lösungen eine Menge Zeit und Geld spart. ###Shownotes### Gast: Dirk Wilfling (https://www.linkedin.com/in/dirkwilfling/) Host: Fabian Merkel (https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabian-merkel/) No Code Landscape: (http://bit.ly/2NaB5cE) Acquired Podcast (https://www.acquired.fm/) ###Sponsor### Die ai-zurich ist die Schweizer Konferenz zum Thema “Künstliche Intelligenz im Business”. Lerne die Einsatzbereiche von Artificial Intelligence kennen, profitiere von Expertenwissen und erfahre wie Künstliche Intelligenz auch dich weiterbringt. Mehr Informationen findest du auf https://ai-zurich.ch/

Last week I had the opportunity to spend a day with Steven Pressfield in Nashville, Tennessee. Steven is the author of several bestselling books including The War of Art and Do the Work.   I moved mountains to make being in that room a reality, and in today's episode, I share with you some of the gifts Steven gave to me and the 34 other people fortunate to be in his presence.    Steven Pressfield books:   The War of Art Do the Work Turning Pro Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t The Artist's Journey The Authentic Swing   LIMITED TIME! Only a few spots left for the Confluence Retreat for Women of Influence at Skamania Lodge in the Pacific Northwest in December! This is the go-to retreat for women of distinction who want to finish their year strong and begin 2020 with momentum. Click here for details of this fantastic experience.     Get more out of PYP with these links: Show notes Find Your Football Newsletter Nominate a Guest for the Show We always appreciate your rating and review on iTunes!

**This is an encore of Tiffany's Episode 55 interview with writer Danielle Krysa in anticipation of her new interview that is coming out next week** I loved hearing Danielle Krysa's keynote at ALT Summit where she talked about the oh-so-loud voice of the inner-critic and I knew that she had to be on Raise Your Hand Say Yes! In case you're wondering, the conversation did not disappoint. We talked about the day Danielle's inner critic was born and how she eventually learned how to get past it. We also talked jealousy and when it can be a good thing and what Danielle's learned about getting unstuck creatively. If you're someone who has ever been in a creative rut or wants to make great work but isn't sure how to start, this episode will be full of lightbulb moments for you! (Spoiler alert: It's all about priorities! Make some!) Show Notes: Connect with Danielle: Blog | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter | Facebook Danielle's podcast: Art for your Ear (I highly recommend!) Danielle's upcoming show at Saatchi Art: California Girls Danielle's books: Creative Block: Get Unstuck, Discover New Ideas. Advice & Projects from 50 Successful Artists Collage: Contemporary Artists Hunt and Gather, Cut and Paste, Mash Up and Transform The War of Art Do the Work Danielle's Creative Unblock series May's Creative Unblock prompt Martha Rich Join the conversation over in the Raise Your Hand Say Yes facebook group!  

**This is an encore of Tiffany's Episode 55 interview with writer Danielle Krysa in anticipation of her new interview that is coming out next week** I loved hearing Danielle Krysa's keynote at ALT Summit where she talked about the oh-so-loud voice of the inner-critic and I knew that she had to be on Raise Your Hand Say Yes! In case you're wondering, the conversation did not disappoint. We talked about the day Danielle's inner critic was born and how she eventually learned how to get past it. We also talked jealousy and when it can be a good thing and what Danielle's learned about getting unstuck creatively. If you're someone who has ever been in a creative rut or wants to make great work but isn't sure how to start, this episode will be full of lightbulb moments for you! (Spoiler alert: It's all about priorities! Make some!) Show Notes: Connect with Danielle: Blog | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter | Facebook Danielle's podcast: Art for your Ear (I highly recommend!) Danielle's upcoming show at Saatchi Art: California Girls Danielle's books: Creative Block: Get Unstuck, Discover New Ideas. Advice & Projects from 50 Successful Artists Collage: Contemporary Artists Hunt and Gather, Cut and Paste, Mash Up and Transform The War of Art Do the Work Danielle's Creative Unblock series May's Creative Unblock prompt Martha Rich Join the conversation over in the Raise Your Hand Say Yes facebook group!  

Join the RYHSY facebook community! Find the full show post at tiffanyhan.com/daniellekrysa Past episodes **100 Rejection Letters** - Registration open through 10/31/16 Show Notes: Connect with Danielle: Blog | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter | Facebook Danielle's podcast: Art for your Ear (I highly recommend!) Danielle's upcoming show at Saatchi Art: California Girls Danielle's books:  Creative Block: Get Unstuck, Discover New Ideas. Advice & Projects from 50 Successful Artists Collage: Contemporary Artists Hunt and Gather, Cut and Paste, Mash Up and Transform The War of Art Do the Work Danielle's Creative Unblock series May's Creative Unblock prompt Martha Rich   PS. 100 Rejection Letters 2.0 is coming! Wanna be the first to get all the deets and access to bonuses? Get on the list here! 

Join the RYHSY facebook community! Find the full show post at tiffanyhan.com/daniellekrysa Past episodes **100 Rejection Letters** - Registration open through 10/31/16 Show Notes: Connect with Danielle: Blog | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter | Facebook Danielle's podcast: Art for your Ear (I highly recommend!) Danielle's upcoming show at Saatchi Art: California Girls Danielle's books:  Creative Block: Get Unstuck, Discover New Ideas. Advice & Projects from 50 Successful Artists Collage: Contemporary Artists Hunt and Gather, Cut and Paste, Mash Up and Transform The War of Art Do the Work Danielle's Creative Unblock series May's Creative Unblock prompt Martha Rich   PS. 100 Rejection Letters 2.0 is coming! Wanna be the first to get all the deets and access to bonuses? Get on the list here!