The Spiritual Brewpub

Today, we discuss a very important book with our guest author Eric English. It's "The Kingdom of Man: Evangelicalism and the Distortion of Christianity." Eric and I discuss the history of the evangelical movement, what the milestones were when things went south, how we got to where we are today, and some critical correctives to go from a "kingdom of man" to a more authentic society, based on divine love. We discuss: How did a small group of religious people become the most powerful political force in the U.S.? Why are Christians leaving this group? What is Christian Nationalism, and how does Donald Trump fit into this? Guest Eric English writes a column on the Patheos Progressive Christian channel and hosts a podcast called UNenlightenment. He holds advanced degrees in philosophy and theology.To grab a copy of the book, visit: https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Man-Eric-Scot-English-ebook/dp/B0D5RCSZC3/For more resources, visit: https://thekingdomofman.com/

I'm excited to have Kathy Shihadah back with us. Kathy is a Writer/Editor/Researcher at "If Americans Knew"—a media organization focused on the Middle East. She's also a Blogger at Patheos with the title, Grace-Colored Glasses. Moreover, she has close family living in Gaza and at least one family member who has fled Gaza. She has a well-researched and personal perspective on what's going on in the Israel-Gaza-Hamas War.  We talk about the Gaza Ceasefire and what's going on today. There is so much to this story that can make your head spin, so we're glad to have Kathy on to help us sort through a lot of stuff—some of it just plain misinformation you hear in the media. The Ceasefire deal, which was supposed to be into Phase 2 last weekend, is hanging by a thread. Learn what's happening now in Gaza, Israel, and the West Bank, and where things might be headed. And, why you should care!Get Quick and Easy Gaza News Daily: https://israelpalestinenews.org/category/2023-israel-gaza-war/daily-updates/Israel/Palestine News: https://israelpalestinenews.org/If Americans Knew: https://ifamericansknew.org/

Matthew Distefano joins Michael to talk about the sequel to his book "Heretic," called "Heretic Too." It's provocative, insightful, humorous, and healing. We discuss the book and the many issues he addresses therein as an exvangelical, including what it means to follow Jesus, sexuality, women in the "church," corporal punishment, the nature of sin, the doctrine of hell, violent theology, and how to pray to an uncontrolling God. Restorative and healing, the book is a must read and our conversation is a must hear for anyone who continues to question their inherited doctrines.Find Matthew's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Heretic-Too-Matthew-J-Distefano-ebook/dp/B0DFRR3JJB/

Today, we are in for a special treat with our guest, Laci Nikita Bean. Laci is a Certified Religious Trauma Recovery Coach, a co-host of the Deadly Faith Podcast, and Author of the recently released book, "Leaving the Sanctuary: Discovering Life Beyond the Boundaries of Religion." You'll learn her story coming out of a full-blown church cult and finding freedom through deconstructing conservative Christianity. Topics we discuss include, Christian nationalism, Trumpism, conspiracy theories, narcissistic church leaders, abusive religious techniques, setting boundaries, psychological impacts of high-control religion, purity culture, marriage and deconstruction, religious trauma recovery, and reconstructing one's life or faith.  Laci's book: https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Sanctuary-Discovering-Boundaries-Religion-ebook/dp/B0DJ1QN7S1/Laci's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laci__bean/?hl=enThe Spiritual Brewpub: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Matthew Taylor is a senior scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies. As a specialist in American Christianity, Islam, Christian extremism, and religious politics, he wrote the newly released book, The Violent Take It By Force: The Christian Movement That is Threatening our Democracy. Matthew joins Michael to discuss the book, the charismatic/apostolic movement that has supported Trumpism for years, their harmful tactics and beliefs, and what is going on today. This is a must see and must read to understand Christian Nationalism and its history. You know about people like Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani. You need to know about these key leaders behind this charismatic Christian movement called The New Apostolic Reformation. Take a listen and get the word out.  Find Matthew's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Violent-Take-Force-Matthew-Taylor-ebook/dp/B0CTJHYQ9J/Institute for Islamic Christian Jewish Studies: https://icjs.org/More Spiritual Brewpub Episodes: https://the-spiritual-brewpub.simplecast.com/

Michael chats with Gloria Beth Amodeo (goes by Beth) on her journey into and out of evangelical Christianity. Learn how a charming, insecure girl from a troubled family became a NYC evangelist for a Christian fundamentalist movement that sought to govern her every thought and action. We discuss Beth's book, God's Ex-Girlfriend, a wry, poignant, and unflinchingly honest memoir that unveils the cult-like operations of Campus Crusade for Christ and much of evangelicalism. Listen and learn the lessons Beth learned. Is the evangelical Jesus the real Jesus? Visit or contact Beth at: https://www.gloriabethamodeo.com/Grab a copy of her book here: https://www.amazon.com/Gods-Ex-Girlfriend-Memoir-Leaving-Evangelical-ebook/dp/B0BKW2433Q/The Spiritual Brewpub: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/More episodes of The Spiritual Brewpub: https://the-spiritual-brewpub.simplecast.com/ 

Michael has a conversation with Larry Jordan, author of The Way: Meaningful Spirituality for a Modern World. Larry deconstructed conservative Christianity, left 25 years of investment banking, and then dedicated his life to serve the world. Working for the Red Cross, helping Veterans, teaching children in Africa and now serving in Rotary International, a non-religious, non-political service organization. And all in the context of a spiritual journey that landed him following Jesus outside church with a Zen practice. Listen to the conclusions he came to incorporating an Eastern view of spirituality into life and faith.  Find Larry's book, The Way, here: https://www.amazon.com/Way-Meaningful-Spirituality-Modern-World-ebook/dp/B0CGCG1FMG/Larry's website: https://larryjordanauthor.com/Larry's blog: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/youmightberight/Learn Michael's journey at The Spiritual Brewpub: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Get Dorsey's book: https://www.amazon.com/What-Kind-Bird-Cant-Fly-ebook/dp/B0CKZKDHYF/Visit his organization, Legal Services for Children of Prisoners: https://prisonerswithchildren.org/Visit The Spiritual Brewpub: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

A former educator in evangelical and public schools, Dan Henderson joins Michael to discuss his new book and "The Spiritual Journey to Anti-Racism: A Travel Guide for White People." Dan explains a subtle, normally overlooked version of white privilege and the critical distinction between being nonracist and antiracist. He puts us squarely in the shoes of black and brown Americans, revealing discriminatory attitudes and behaviors usually unseen by whites and particularly by the church. Listen in to embark on this path that reveals our racist history, what we often get wrong about racism, an enlightened road of reckoning, and avenues of empathy, compassion, and action. A provocative, challenging, and extremely rewarding experience awaits those who pursue this transformative journey. To learn more about Dan and his work visit: danhendersonauthor.com Grab the book "The Spiritual Journey to Anti-Racism" here: https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Journey-Antiracism-Travel-People-ebook/dp/B0D9KDHZS6/ Visit The Spiritual Brewpub here: spiritualbrewpub.com

Find Keith's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Sayings-Jesus-Decoding-Gospel-ebook/dp/B0CW1FXSF2/Find Keith's new podcast, The God Squad: Faith, Politics, Sanity here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-god-squad/id1754574318Visit The Spiritual Brewpub here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Learn more about JD Myers and his books here: https://redeeminggod.com/Learn about Michael's book on exposing retribution and violence in popular theology here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Find Part 1 here: https://the-spiritual-brewpub.simplecast.com/episodes/was-last-days-ministries-a-cult-former-members-share-their-story-part-1  To get more details about Sharon and Tracey's experiences, visit their podcast: https://www.confessionsofthecultsisters.com/To learn more about Michael's journey and workshop, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/Find Michael's latest book here: https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Bad-Faith-Exposing-Violence/dp/1957007699/ 

To get more details about Sharon and Tracey's experiences, visit their podcast: https://www.confessionsofthecultsiste... To learn more about Michael's journey, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Today, Leslie is a Faith & Life Transition Coach and host of the Honoring the Journey Podcast. To learn more about Leslie's faith coaching services, visit: https://www.leslieneasecoaching.com/To hear Leslie's podcast, visit: https://honoring-the-journey.simpleca...To learn more about Michael's content and deconstruction workshop, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/See more episodes: https://the-spiritual-brewpub.simplecast.com/ 

To find the newly released Holy Ghosted, visit Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Ghosted-Spiritual-Religious-Language-ebook/dp/B0CDL39X7H/ To find Gaslighted by God and her other books, visit: https://tiffanyyeckebrooks.com/ To learn more about The Spiritual Brewpub, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

Jonathan's books include "Indigo: The Color of Grief," "Theology of Consent: Mimetic Theory in an Open and Relational Universe," "The Reconstructionist," and "Questions About Sexuality that Got Me Uninvited from My Denomination." Find his books here: https://www.jonathanfosteronline.com/ or on Amazon. Learn more about The Spiritual Brewpub here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/

What's really going in Palestine and Israel? Lamis Diab shares first hand experience being shot at by the Israeli army, what the apartheid conditions are like, the dehumanization of a people, what the bombing of Gaza is like, and some of the solutions being proposed. Also includes stories of Israeli historians and former IDF soldiers and their journeys to uncover the myths of the day. It's not so black and white folks. These are stories Americans need to hear. Learn more:  HISTORYIsraeli historian Ilan Pappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1PKlV1JMBU&t=4s   Jewish political scientist Norm Finklestein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esli-uLlN2A&t=30s     Miko Peled, former IDF Special Forces and son of Israeli General: https://www.amazon.com/Generals-Son-Journey-Israeli-Palestine-ebook/dp/B01CN2HRH6/ TODAY:  War Correspondent Chris Hedges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly6lfhOxTe0&t=0s   SOLUTIONS:  The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions Movement: https://bdsmovement.net/?fbclid=IwAR3E4lRzaw2FOoLslS_u5DwSsk0jtCELtl5fKK8EF09HweR059gdXIcDSvAHelp with humanitarian aid: https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/what-we-do/where-we-work/palestine

Is deconstructing evangelical theology harming people and tearing them away from Jesus? Is it untrue to the historical and biblical record? Or, is it actually a natural healthy process of questioning certain doctrines and discovering a more "biblical" and historically accurate paradigm on Jesus and the Bible? Get answers from four commentators who have in-depth experience on both sides of this issue, as former missionaries, pastors, and leaders in the evangelical movement.  Desimber Rose: https://us.amazon.com/Church-Can-Hell-Overcoming-Brokenness-ebook/dp/B0B2ZB6VX9/Angela Herrington: https://angelajherrington.com/Keith Giles: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/keithgiles/Michael Camp: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/#faithdeconstruction #deconstruction #faithshift #reconstructingfaith #exvangelicals

Join Reverend Derek Kubilus and Michael having an amazing conversation on the doctrine of hell and how Derek came to reject it as a mistranslated, misinterpreted, and illogical concept that totally contradicts God's love. Derek addresses these questions below. Don't miss his insightful answers: * How are some people haunted by hell? * What are the major glaring contradictions of the notion of a hell that is created and maintained by a loving God? * If Christians truly, really, honestly believed in hell and truly, really, honestly loved their neighbors, how would they live their life? * What are the most interesting examples of mistranslations of terms referring to hell in the New Testament? * What does Jesus mean when he says “everyone will be salted by fire?” * Where did modern Christians get the idea that God is retributive—to the point of punishing people infinitely if necessary? * What is your response to those who claim that death is the ultimate cutoff for securing one's salvation? * How does the concept of “remedial punishment/rehab of the age” equate with purgatory? Is purgatory in the Bible under a different term? * How do you define being a universalist? Why does it not mean all religions are alike all lead to the same God? * How does Jesus expand the borders of those to be saved? * How do you answer the objection that we need hell to maintain human freedom? * What are the wonderful, beneficial implications of no longer believing in hell? Find Derek's book, Holy Hell: A Case Against Eternal Damnation here (out Feb. 27 and available for preorder now): https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Hell-against-Eternal-Damnation-ebook/dp/B0CBVLY23F/ Michael Camp's Spiritual Brewpub, Deconstruction Workshop, books, and blog: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ More episodes: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

One day Angela Herrington had an epiphany. She loved God but realized the conservative Christian movement she was in was teaching some really toxic stuff. Join Michael and Angela's conversation about what faith deconstruction is, why it's so crucial, and how to address its critics. Angela shares from her heart and the wellspring of wisdom in her new book, Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself. Learn why deconstruction is not just the latest trend, what toxic religion is, and what you need on a deconstructing journey to ensure you're not losing yourself and not warping historical facts. “In faith deconstruction, we are not dismantling every belief we have until there is no belief left. Instead, we are examining, sifting, and sorting what we believe to determine how it aligns with who we believe God to be.” Angela is a faith deconstruction coach, a certified life coach, and seminary-trained online pastor. She holds a BA in biblical studies from Indiana Wesleyan and an MA in leadership from Wesley Seminary. Find Angela's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Deconstructing-Faith-without-Losing-Yourself/dp/0802883281/  Angela's website: https://angelajherrington.com/ The Faith Deconstruction Café: https://www.facebook.com/groups/faithdeconstructioncafe Michael's Faith Deconstruction Workshop: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/spiritual-freedom-deconstruction-workshops More Episodes: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

A journalist for "If Americans Knew," Kathy Shihadah has a deep connection to Palestine through her Palestinian relatives living in Gaza. Drawing on her experience as a professional researcher of the Israel-Palestinian conflict, as a progressive Christian blogger, and and her personal relationship with Gaza residents, Kathy shares this story of "A Refugee Family's Quest for Survival." Learn what's going on in Palestinian territories through the eyes of Gazan residents. Here are some of the resources both Michael and Kathy mention toward the end of the podcast: Kathy's Blog with stories on her family: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/graceco... War Correspondent Chris Hedges:    • Chris Hedges "The Genocide in Gaza"   Israeli historian Ilan Pappe:    • The myth of Israel's 'democracy' w/Il...   Jewish political scientist Norm Finklestein:    • What Events Lead to the Current Situa...   Aljazeera News: https://www.aljazeera.com/ Democracy Now: https://www.democracynow.org/ Breaking Points on "Genocide Case Opens Against Israel":    • Bibi FREAKS As Genocide Case Opens Ag...   Help provide humanitarian aid: https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org... Reach your Representative: https://www.house.gov/representatives... Reach your Senator: https://www.senate.gov/senators/senat... Email President Biden: https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ MORE EPISODES HERE: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

Meet the Tattooed Theologian. Dillon Naber Cruz experienced trauma in his childhood and during his service in the Marine Corps. After coming to grips with his PTSD and how the US military wages war and trains recruits, Dillon went back to the teachings of Jesus and addressed the cognitive dissonance he felt. Join Dillon and Michael as they discuss how Dillon became an aspirational pacifist and why redemptive violence---the belief that violence can be used to bring order to society---doesn't work in the world. If you're weary of cycles of violence, the dehumanization of "the other," and retributive methods of solving evil or injustice, you'll appreciate Dillon's insights into restorative justice. He has an inspirational, challenging, and hopeful message for us all, particularly in light of today's wars and conflicts. To learn more about Dillon, visit: https://tattooed-theologian.com/ To grab his latest book, Theological Musings: Collected Essays of a Tattooed Theologian, visit: https://www.amazon.com/Theological-Musings-Collected-Tattooed-Theologian-ebook/dp/B0CF3VKC1C/ To learn more about Michael's book, Breaking Bad Faith, that deals with this topic, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ #violence #war #peacemaking #pacifists #military #israelhamaswar

David Hayward is the "NakedPastor." He is a cartoonist, author, and former charismatic/evangelical pastor who deconstructed his faith and rebuilt a new refreshing spirituality that still embraces the wisdom of Jesus... but without the religious baggage. Michael and David discuss their journeys and David's unique experience. A psychologist says of David's latest cartoon book, Flip It Like This, "A beautiful exploration of deconstructing your conditioned beliefs to become more open, compassionate, and heart-centered. I recommend this book to anyone on their own healing journey." Enter into this fascinating conversation and learn how David's cartoons "...are for those who have been battered or infuriated by the church and who long to see it change. Upending notions of who's in and who's out, Hayward's comic vision overturns false pieties and harmful dogmas in one fell swoop." See David's work here: https://nakedpastor.com/ See the new book, Flip It Like This here: https://www.amazon.com/Flip-Like-This-David-Hayward/dp/1506484727 Learn more about Michael's journey and resources here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ More Spiritual Brewpub episodes: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

Daniel Bannoura is a Palestinian Christian who grew up in the West Bank and taught at Bethlehem Bible College. Now a PhD candidate at Notre Dame, Daniel joins Michael to discuss the Israel-Hamas War, the wider Palestinian-Israel conflict, and his Palestinian Christian roots. There's so much context and history to learn here. A very illuminating interview during this critical time. To get the most out of this episode, check out all these RESOURCES on the subject: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ec98509ea936a6584b3cecb/t/653c07a34ffa986c65bc9d0b/1698432933843/Palestine-Israel+Resources.pdf Also read this important document: An Open Letter from Palestinian Christians to Western Church Leaders found here: https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-from-palestinian-christians-to-western-church-leaders-and-theologians Daniel is starting a podcast soon that we will post here when it becomes available. Michael's book, Breaking Bad Faith, available on Amazon. More Episodes #palestinian #israelpalestineconflict #hamasattack #gazaunderattack

Kathy Shihadah, a Christian and ex-evangelical, is married to a Gazan Muslim who has family in Gaza. She joins Michael to share her very personal and gripping story about her spiritual journey, a multi-faith marriage, and insights on the plight of Palestinians. Kathy and Michael share empathy for all who are suffering in the Israel-Hamas War, both Israelis and Palestinians. People of good will denounce the attacks by Hamas and the taking of hostages. Yet Kathy's and her Muslim husband's family's perspective brings critical context to the wider conflict and helps explain the drive behind Hamas, the Palestinian struggle, and their legitimate grievances. Learn a new paradigm that can help us discover a workable way of peace through restorative justice rather than Israel's choice of retribution and war. Learn the case for Israel stopping the bombing and pursuing a permanent ceasefire and negotiated settlement that provides security for both Israelis and Palestinians. Read Kathy's blog articles on the Israel-Gaza conflict.  Read Michael's post on An Empathetic and Peace Seeking Response to the Israel-Hamas War.  See video version of this interview.  Visit If Americans Knew Watch More Episodes #TheSpiritualBrewpub

American democracy is in danger. How do we protect it from authoritarian reactionary Christianity? David Gushee joins Michael to discuss his new book, Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies. Gushee makes a robust case for a renewed commitment to democracy on the part of Christians—not by succumbing to secular liberalism, but by drawing on Christianity's own best traditions. Any concerned Christian or post-evangelical will walk away with eyes wide open to the dangers of our current form of political engagement. Listeners will gain insight into what democracy is truly meant to be and why Christians once supported it wholeheartedly—and should do so again. David also shares his take on the Israel-Hamas War as a Christian ethicist. Watch Videocast version Find the book here: Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies David's website: https://www.davidpgushee.com/ More Spiritual Brewpub episodes Also visit The Spiritual Brewpub for more books, a support group, and deconstruction workshop.

Why do so many evangelicals deny vaccine science? Why are so many suspicious of the science behind climate change? Why do most evangelicals reject theistic evolution? Michael talks to Janet Kellogg Ray to get answers. This evangelical antipathy to modern science turned deadly during the COVID-19 crisis when white evangelicals snubbed precautions and vaccines. Herself a science educator and Christian who attends an evangelical church, Ray explains how we got here and how to fix it. We talk about everything from the creation-evolution debate and intelligent design theory to the evidence behind the efficacy of the Covid vaccines, including debunking many conspiracy theories surrounding the pandemic. Ray's book, The God of Monkey Science (Amazon), covers all this and includes more about climate science and climate change denial. Find Janet Ray's book here: https://www.amazon.com/God-Monkey-Science-People-Scientific-ebook/dp/B0BYMH6LY5 Learn more about deconstructing evangelicalism and rebuilding a more healthy faith here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ See more episodes: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

There is one very important thing that my evangelical deconstruction taught me about Jesus: With a few exceptions, modern Christian churches have tangled Jesus up in a huge wad of unhistorical beliefs, doctrines, and practices. I learned that by doing a sound, non-sectarian study of history, we can disentangle him from these religious falsehoods. In this episode, I share 10 facts about Jesus that help us do that. Once we know these historical facts, we can start to see Jesus outside Christianity, the church, and religion and answer the question, "What do we do with Jesus?" Enjoy! CORRECTION: The 14 books I cited from the Septuagint didn't get into the current version of the Old Testament (I misspoke and said NT).  Also read my blog on the same topic: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thespiritualbrewpub/2023/09/10-facts-that-disentangle-jesus-from-christianity-and-the-church/ Find Breaking Bad Faith here, which goes into much more detail: https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Bad-Faith-Exposing-Violence-ebook/dp/B0C9L21ZXD/ MORE EPISODES: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/    

Thomas Jay Oord, scholar, theologian, and professor at Northwind Seminary, joins Michael to talk about his new book, The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence. They discuss whether God is all powerful or not and what is a better, more "biblical", and philosophically logical way of looking at divine power. Amipotence is the uncontrolling love of God. It's a beautiful notion that fits scripture, human experience, and logic better than the traditional view. Also, we find out how Tom had to sit through two heresy trials! Grab Tom's books here: https://thomasjayoord.com/ Grab Michael's book (that Tom actually endorsed!), Breaking Bad Faith at Amazon.com.

Special guest Jim Palmer joins us on The Spiritual Brewpub. Jim is a former mega-church pastor, a master of divinity graduate, a humanist chaplain, a certified spiritual director, and the founder of the Center for Non-Religious Spirituality. Jim and Michael talk about Jim's deconstruction and rebuilding, the evangelical experience, the needs Jim saw that led him to found the Center for Non-Religious Spirituality, and some of the content that he provides to help people coming out of toxic faith. To learn more about Jim, visit: https://nonreligiousspirituality.com/ See a video version of this podcast.   See Michael's book that Jim referred to at the end.  Learn more at The Spiritual Brewpub MORE EPISODES

Laci joins Michael in a fascinating conversation about her work as a Certified Trauma Recovery Coach (CTRC) focusing on helping people overcome religious trauma. Learn her story how she got caught up in an evangelical cult ministry, started deconstructing, and finally caught a vision to help people recover from the same trauma she went through. Don't miss this one! Laci is awesome! To learn more about Laci's coaching and recovery services, visit: https://lacibean.com/ To learn more about Michael's Religious Deconstruction Workshop that teaches attendees historical and biblical facts that supports them thru their faith shift, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/spiritual-freedom-deconstruction-workshops Find Michael's new book, Breaking Bad Faith here: https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Bad-Faith-Exposing-Violence-ebook/dp/B0C9L21ZXD/ Join the Deconstructing Evangelicalism Support Community: https://www.meetup.com/deconstructing-evangelicalism-support-group/ MORE EPISODES  

Michael and Karen have a conversation about her story described in her new book, "Too Much and Not Enough: Sacred Thoughts Said Out Loud." Karen shares with a refreshingly brutal honesty about her experiences growing up under the influence of toxic theological systems that left her doubting her sanity, her identity, and her voice. Like many men and women who have been hurt by the Church they loved, or betrayed by the pastors they trusted, Karen's story is filled with disappointment and grief. BUT, as she writes from her heart and makes room for healing, she discovers a deeper hope, and a surprising amount of grace waiting for her—and all of us—on the other side. To learn more and grab Karen's book, visit: https://www.karenruthshock.com/ Michael's new book: https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Bad-Faith-Exposing-Violence-ebook/dp/B0C9L21ZXD/ Learn the facts and how to rebuild faith at the Religious Deconstruction Workshop: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/spiritual-freedom-deconstruction-workshops Join the Deconstructing Evangelicalism Support Community: https://www.meetup.com/deconstructing-evangelicalism-support-group/ MORE EPISODES

Author, poet, spoken word artist, and former pastor of The Restoration Center and the The Rock Worship Center, both in South Carolina, Desimber Rose joins Michael to talk about toxic church culture. It's time to expose the dark underbelly of institutional church and Desimber is equipped to do it. She's also your guide to healing from the spiritual wounds of church hurt. Michael and Desimber talk about her experiences and her book, The Church Can Go to Hell: Overcoming the Brokenness, Bitterness, and Bondage of Church Hurt. She's talking about the institutional church, folks, not all communities of followers of Jesus' love ethic. Find her book here: https://www.amazon.com/Church-Can-Hell-Overcoming-Brokenness-ebook/dp/B0B2ZB6VX9/ Find Michael's book, Breaking Bad Faith, here: https://amzn.to/3NAajZv Learn more about deconstructing conservative Christianity here: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ More podcast episodes. 

Food to benefit your spiritual journey.  Heather Hamilton, author of Returning to Eden: A Field Guide for the Spiritual Journey, joins Michael to discuss her story deconstructing evangelicalism and rebuilding a surprisingly refreshing new paradigm. Heather has a knack for sharing spiritual and theological breakthroughs, including her mystical experience that snapped her out of a nervous breakdown. Learn new ways to view the Bible based on literary and historical facts, a positive spin on myths, and how to get out of the False Self trap and find your True Self.  To learn more, visit www.returningtoeden.com To learn more about Michael's journey, visit www.spiritualbrewpub.com To see a video version of this conversation, visit https://www.youtube.com/@michaelcamp2134 More Episodes  

Mason Mennenga joins Michael to discuss his journey surviving Veggie Tales (an evangelical children's animation franchise), an evangelical mega church and its theology, and how he came to question it all and discover a liberating and more historically-honest faith.  As a podcaster, YouTuber, and aspiring theologian with an MDiv, Mason has some really valuable, simple and profound content that helps people deconstruct toxic theology and rebuild a healthy faith or new theory of life.  To see or listen to his material, visit: masonmennenga.com To learn more about Michael's journey, visit: spiritualbrewpub.com For more in-depth help deconstructing and rebuilding faith, see the Religious Deconstruction Workshop. See more episodes here: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  

Angela Herrington joins Michael to discuss her work as a Faith Deconstruction Coach, workshop presenter, and author of a forthcoming book, "Kicking Toxic Religion to the Curb: Deconstruct Your Faith Without Losing Yourself." Hear about Angela's journey and the abundant content she has developed helping people deconstruct conservative Christianity and evangelicalism. Also, the many examples that both Angela and Michael bring up of harmful beliefs and practices. Do you find yourself asking, "If Jesus is love, why do so many Christians hurt so many people?" You'll learn how to uncover the answer to that question, how to overcome religious trauma that you may have experienced, and how to rebuild a healthy faith that brings peace. To learn more about Angela and her workshops, visit: https://angelajherrington.com/ To learn more about Michael's content and workshop that includes historical facts that can set people free, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ See more Spiritual Brewpub Episodes.

Brad Jersak joins Michael to discuss his latest book, After the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction. Their conversation includes Brad's deconstruction journey, both his support and critique of today's mass deconstruction, and examples of historical deconstructionists like Voltaire, Kierkegaard, and Dostoevsky. He also shares how Simone Weil's take on the problem of evil "saved my life" as well as signposts and guides that help people find authentic faith after deconstruction. This is a critical discussion on where popular religious deconstruction is going today and how to navigate it.  Learn more about Brad and the book at bradjersak.com. To get help with deconstruction, see Michael's Religious Deconstruction Workshop  Find video version of this interview at Brad Jersak Videocast See more Spiritual Brewpub episodes.

Biblical scholar Jennifer Grace Bird joins Michael in a fascinating conversation about the importance of knowing original meaning and thinking for oneself when it comes to the Bible. Jennifer shares her insights found in her book "Permission Granted: Take the Bible into Your Own Hands" and her forthcoming book, "Marriage in the Bible: What Do the Texts Say?" Folks, you have permission to examine the Bible with an open mind to both critique it and decide for yourself what's inspirational. Learn why it's more respectful to the Bible to approach it this way and some fascinating examples of why the misogynist attitude toward women in the NT is not reflected in the original texts.  Go to YouTube for a Videocast of this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lya4sdGnymA Find more content and videos of Jennifer's work here: https://www.jennifergracebird.com To learn more about Michael and his journey and experience coming out of conservative Christianity, visit: https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/ More Episodes

What does post-Christian mean? According to Maria French, it doesn't automatically mean post-Jesus or post-faith. Join Maria and Michael as they discuss why the ideas in Maria's book are so critical to the conversation about deconstruction. The community of post-evangelicals, or even those who are still evangelical but disillusioned, will benefit to hear how Maria's journey offers this lesser known path—outside what we might think a destination would be after conservative Christianity like progressive Christianity, agnosticism, or atheism—but a path for us who still believe in mystery and connection to the spirit of life, but who feel trapped by old ideas and constructs. Maria gives us a new construct, from within which we can work to reconstruct something after evangelicalism. Maria also shares advice on how to navigate deconstruction and relationships with friends and family who are still evangelical and reject or misunderstand the post-evangelical or post-Christian path.  Learn more about Maria and find her book at www.mariafrancescafrench.com and more about Michael at www.spiritualbrewpub.com . Find more episodes here: https://spiritualbrewpub.podbean.com/  See Videocast Version on YouTube  

Dan Henderson joins Michael to discuss his book, Confessions of a Recovering Evangelical, which chronicles his journey of alienation and frustration with traditional evangelical Christianity. Many like Dan are "Nones" and are often traumatized by the transition from a rigid religious world view to a more humanistic open one. They are also usually harassed by family and former friends. Drawing on his many years experience as a former Christian private school teacher, Dan shares how he gave up narrow Bible beliefs, harmful theologies, a gay-bashing attitude, the evangelical behavior-police badge, and racial discrimination to germinate and grow a new, more authentic faith. His story engenders a safe place for others to do the same.  Learn how the evangelical and Christian Nationalist movement in the U.S. threatens our culture and democracy and how evangelical belief and practices harm individuals and society. Dan doesn't toss following Jesus or all of the Bible. He shares a vision for moving on to a more humanistic (not a dirty word) and spiritual way of being that emulates the heart of Jesus' teaching. Visit danhendersonauthor.com to learn more about Dan and the book. Visit The Spiritual Brewpub to learn more about Michael. Also see Other Podcast Episodes. Find here the Videocast Version.   

Rob Schenck had at least three conversions. One, to Christ, two to a highly politicized faith, and three from the Religious Right back to Jesus' teachings. Michael and Rob have a fascinating conversation about his journey and how evangelicals turned their backs on Jesus' love ethic by justifying outlandish gun rights and using Jane Roe (Norma McCorvey) of "Roe v. Wade" as a trophy in the abortion culture war. Rob and the mother of a teenage shooting victim ask, is it possible to be both pro-gun and pro-life? What should be the moral and ethical response to gun violence, especially for those who claim to follow Jesus? When Norma McCorvey supposedly was converted to evangelical Christianity, Rob confesses his complicity in using her as a means to an end and violating her human dignity. What really went on behind the headlines? You don't want to miss this riveting conversation about guns, the 2nd Amendment vs. the 2nd  Commandment, the controversial anti-abortion/pro-life organization Operation Rescue (that Rob and Michael used to be a part of), and Rob's message today to his current and former evangelical friends (for some, who now consider him an enemy). Learn more about Rob at revrobschenck.com and watch the two documentaries he's highlighted in at Armor of Light and AKA Jane Roe. See the interview in Videocast version. 

Can you be a Christian and be gay? Tim Rymel spent nearly 20 years emphatically answering no to that question. Born into the fundamentalist, Pentecostal Christian faith, he went into the ministry at 15-years-old, pleading with God to make him straight. His desperate journey led him into conversion therapy (among the Ex-Gay Movement), where he went from participant to leader at what was once the world's oldest and leading ex-gay organization. He, and the prominent ministry staff, including John Paulk, John Smid, and other Exodus leaders, suddenly found themselves thrust into the national media spotlight at a time when the battle between the LGBTQ community and the evangelical church was heating up. Michael and Tim discuss Tim's story as told in his book, "Going Gay." Hear Tim's thought-provoking account of one man's journey to accept and understand himself. In a culture where faith and sexuality seem often to be at war, Tim brings insight and light to the conversation. They also discuss Tim's other book, "Rethinking Everything When Faith and Reality Don't Make Sense," and how important and freeing it is to have a reasoned, fact-based faith or philosophy of life. To learn more about Tim, visit timrymel.net. Find other Spiritual Brewpub episodes at https://www.spiritualbrewpub.com/partners. 

This episode is critical to listen to as we get close to the midterm elections in November 2022. My new friend, Carolyn Baker, shares lessons from her book, Confronting Christofascism: Healing the Evangelical Wound. We discuss the history of this unholy alliance--fascist, macho, authoritarian ideas mixed with conservative Christianity (and politics)--its relation to Trumpism, and how it threatens society and democracy. Carolyn invites those recovering from the influence of fundamentalist religions, as well as the non-religious seeking to preserve the democratic experiment, to excise the toxic influences of religious authoritarianism from politics and personal life. Listeners from all backgrounds will be enlightened and inspired by Carolyn's clear and incisive snapshot of this defining moment in our history. Writing from her upbringing as a fundamentalist Christian and her years of practicing psychotherapy, she offers a deep dive into the psychology of fundamentalism as well as specific guidelines for healing the wounds of immersion in a subculture of religious domination. Don't miss this one! And, don't think this is hyperbole! Hear what Carolyn has to say based on her personal experience, historical research, and training as a psychotherapist.  To find the book, visit Confronting Christofascism on Amazon. To learn more about Carolyn Baker and her other books, visit carolynbaker.net. To learn more about Michael and his journey out of evangelicalism into the historical, fact-based way of Jesus, visit The Spiritual Brewpub. Find more episodes here. 

There is the accepted, often-repeated version of Christian history—and then there's the real story. In this podcast, Michael interviews author Steve Paul on his book that helps people learn little-known details of the world's largest faith and helps them differentiate between Jesus' teachings and institutional religion.  Steve's extensive research of Christian history, once simply called "The Timeline," was often cited in Michael's first two books. Meet the man behind that study and learn how he started his journey to search for meaning through the study of history. Paul's book is an excellent source for any student or lover of history or anyone who is rethinking or deconstructing evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity.  Don't miss this fascinating conversation. As Steve Paul says, to understand Christian history is to unearth the roots of our current divisive American culture—and hopefully find the tools to fix it in order to grow into a more cooperative society. After listening, find out more and get the book at insearchofchristianorigins.com. The website includes a handy Index for each century and maps that track Christian expansion through the centuries. 

When Chris Kratzer left his Lutheran roots, he became a pastor of evangelical and Southern Baptist churches for 21 years. Later, he got caught up in the intoxicating church growth movement. Eventually, after a long road of self examination and realization, he had a radical change of heart and mind that led him to walk away from it all. Enter The Spiritual Brewpub and hear Michael and Chris discussing Chris's evolution and revelations that showed him how God is portrayed in most evangelical churches--as a hating, violent, temperamental, murderous, codependent, and exclusive deity.  Michael and Chris agree that the religious-right has hijacked Jesus and made him into the mascot of their bigotry, discrimination, power, and greed. Chris shares the messages found in his book, “Stupid Shit Heard In Church: And the Truth that Will Wipe You Clean,” where he boldly confronts the evils of much of modern Christianity and charts a new path of faith that rescues Jesus out of the claws of conservative Evangelicalism. Hear Chris' fascinating journey and discover a faith that doesn't require you to lose your mind, heart, and self in the process. Learn more at www.chriskratzer.com

Joshua Harris became famous at 22 in evangelical circles after writing a book called, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" that popularized the concept of "courting" as a "Christian" alternative to the secular dating scene. Harris was a product of the conservative Christian homeschool movement. He later became a senior pastor of a Sovereign Grace Ministries mega church (formerly People of Destiny) outside Washington, DC. After embracing what appeared to him as an exciting church movement on the cutting edge of living and spreading "the gospel" of Jesus, he discovered its dark side. Seeing spiritual abuse, manipulation, controlling leaders, and sexual abuse lawsuits that hit his denomination, he ultimately became disillusioned, left the church, attended a progressive seminary, admitted his ministry mistakes, and then announced he no longer considered himself a Christian.  Join Michael and Josh in a fascinating conversation on Josh's evolution, how and why he changed his mind, and what brought him to where he is today--having deconstructed evangelicalism and wondering if what faith should boil down to is simply loving your neighbor--i.e., the love ethic of Christ. Michael and Josh have a lot in common in their past and reminisce about the recent history of the evangelical movement, where they think it lost its way, and how to approach religious deconstruction and reconstruction. Learn about Josh's journey at joshharris.com and Michael's at spiritualbrewpub.com. 

In his newest book, "Fall in Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy," Frank Schaeffer offers a passionate political, social, and lifestyle “blueprint” for changes millions of us know are needed to rebalance our work lives with thriving relationships. Before Covid, many Americans were already questioning capitalism's “values.” We were already challenging the idea that your job defines you. We already knew something was wrong. Loneliness, frustration, and alienation were already on the rise.  Michael and Frank have a fascinating conversation on Frank's journey out of his conservative, evangelical past and into a new way of looking at the world that aligns with history and science and focuses on what matters most: the priority of relationships, connections, community, love, caring for the earth, and empowering the poor and marginalized--all things that Jesus taught.  Far from the conservative Christian view that all humans are depraved at birth and destined to screw up without some divine intervention, you will hear how evolutionary history points to the notion of "survival of the friendliest." Humanity is conditioned to cooperate and be kind to one another. It's innately built in whether you believe in an evolutionary path, that we were created in the image of a God of love, or both. Join Frank and Michael to hear reflections on years of American evangelical trends, why feminism is important, and ideas on how to prioritize what matters most. Learn more about Frank at frankschaeffer.com and Michael at spiritualbrewpub.com. 

Keith Giles and his wife, Wendy, work with Peace Catalyst International to help build relationships between Christians and Muslims in El Paso, TX. Keith was formerly a licensed and ordained minister who walked away from organized church over a decade ago to start a home fellowship that gave away 100% of the offering to the poor in the community. Today he is the author of the best-selling “Jesus Un” series of books, including Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible and Jesus Unforsaken: Substituting Divine Wrath with Unrelenting Love. Keith is also a part of the Heretic Happy Hour podcast.  Michael and Keith have a lively conversation about spiritual deconstruction and reconstruction, Keith's journey out of a Southern Baptist and Vineyard ministry, a more authentic and historical way of viewing Jesus, the Bible, and Church, and how to find a place of peace in the midst of one's spiritual evolution. Also learn more about Michael's similar journey at The Spiritual Brewpub website. 

Author, podcaster, and retired pastor David Artman joins Michael to discuss his book Grace Saves All: The Necessity of Christian Universalism. As a child, the first time David attended a church, after he walked out he told his mom, “That place is scary. I'm not going back.” Why? Because this church taught the doctrine of hell with a vengeance. After a few years, now in the 5th grade, David was evangelized by a pretty six-teen-year-old conservative Christian girl, who told him if he didn't accept Jesus he would be eternally damned. And, to play it safe, he better accept him that very night. He did, but he knew deep down it was driven by fear. Later still, as a young adult he saw a softer and intellectual side of Christianity in the writings of CS Lewis. But the doctrine of hell still loomed large. In this episode, you will learn how one man navigated these experiences and through research and seeking finally landed in a place where Christian Universalism—i.e., trusting that all of humanity will ultimately be restored to a God of love—is a necessary belief for anyone who takes Jesus seriously, not merely a legitimate belief. Join Michael and David in this illuminating conversation on the three major Christian positions on how God views humankind's destiny—Transactional (Arminianism), Exclusivity (Calvinism), and Inclusivity (Universalism)—and why it's biblical, historical, logical, and necessary to land on the third position. They also discuss church vs. true spirituality and what is going on in today's Modern Reformation of “Christian” thought. Learn more about David at davidartman.net and Michael at The Spiritual Brewpub website. 

When Bart Campolo announced he no longer believed in God, it rocked his father's and family's world, as well as shocked the wider evangelical movement. Yet it also opened a new opportunity--to openly discuss the hard questions and problems with modern Christianity, particularly evangelicalism, but to do so in a respectful way. That's what Bart and his famous evangelical father, Tony, did. In their book, Why I Left, Why I Stayed, and the film, Leaving My Father's Faith, they foster a safe space to agree to disagree agreeably about religious faith and Christianity.  In that spirit, Michael and Bart talk about how Bart evolved out of belief in God, why he calls himself a humanist, and what matters most in living one's life, whether one is a believer or not. Can atheists and theists find common ground? Listen as Michael relates to and agrees with most of the experiences and objections that Bart raises, while coming to a different conclusion about the origin of life, and Bart relays his unique perspective that led him to leave Christianity but become a humanist chaplain at USC and the University of Cincinnati.  To learn more about Bart, the book and film, and listen to his podcast called Humanize Me, visit bartcampolo.org. You can find Michael's content on historical spirituality at The Spiritual Brewpub. 

Author, professor, and researcher, Martin Prozesky, joins Michael Camp for a illuminating conversation on how to unravel modern Christianity from its dogmatism, exclusivism, and biblicism, to recover the spiritual and ethical revolution begun by Jesus of Nazareth. Goodness, is the fundamental essence of God, argues Prozesky, who grew up in the shadow of apartheid. He makes the case that the revolution that Jesus started should lead humanity on a type of Global Goodness Project, where we pursue generous, boundless love for all based on the pillars of goodness, i.e., love, truth, and freedom.  Hear Prozesky's evaluation of both conservative and liberal Christianity in the light of true goodness. How can conservative Christians claim to be deeply ethical and hold unethical beliefs? How do liberal Christians often not fully reflect God's goodness as modeled by Christ? What is the basis for us all to reject dogmatism, exclusivism, and biblicism and join in this effort to spread goodness across our world?  Check out Martin's non-fiction book, Honest to Goodness: A Spiritual and Ethical Odyssey. You won't be disappointed. Also, he's got a fiction book that sounds amazing called Warring Souls: When Religious Faith is Governed by Ethical Passion and When It Isn't. Learn more about Michael other Spiritual Brewpub interviews at SpiritualBrewpub.com.