Podcasts about I Kissed Dating Goodbye

This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you didn't, you're sure to be familiar with Joshua Harris, author of the wildly popular Christian dating, ahem, courting, book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He's here to share with us about his time inside of high control religion, what opened his eyes to the unhealthy dynamics inside the church and his process of healing after leaving. It's an episode that all of our younger selves never saw coming and definitely one you won't want to miss! This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

UPDATE: Uploaded the sizzle file by accident. Should be the correct file now. In start contrast to last episode's rundown of I Kissed Dating Goodbye's no-touch, no fun, no-humanity mindset, we look at more recent trends in remaining "pure" while still managing to get some. And it's bizarre. The Horny Chapel is part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dauntless Media Collective.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Send us a message at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠hornychapel@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/hornychapel/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

The Growth Initiative: Winter session dates are January 9th - February 13thLIVE calls will be Thursdays at 7am or 3pm PST. https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/thegrowthinitiativeRegister here for the Free Growth Initiative Masterclass: https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/growth-initiative-webinarGet it All Done Club: https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/get-it-all-done-clubIs your life just too complicated to ever feel peaceful?Check out Katie's Free Home Management Masterclass: https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/peacefully-productive-home-masterclass Grow as a couple and get the couple's package! You can get over $200 off if you sign up for the Growth Initiative and Get It All Done Club together.https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/offers/S3GJdvSm/checkoutEnrollment for the Growth Initiative & couple's package ends on Thursday, January 2, 2025. -Now That We're A Family Print Magazine (2025 Annual Subscription) Receive Powerful Biblical Family Encouragement Your one-time purchase will supply you with four print issues delivered on a quarterly basis (March, June, September, December) https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/offers/FmDoCebx/checkout-Send us your questions for future podcasts! You can submit them here: https://www.nowthatwereafamily.com/podcastquestionsubmission-Books that have shaped or influenced our young adult years: Katie: - “Beautiful Girlhood” by Karen Andreola - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/beautiful-girlhood-by-mabel-hale/251857/item/8580092/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=high_vol_midlist_standard_shopping_customer_acquisition&utm_adgroup=&utm_term=&utm_content=666157863328&gad_source=1#idiq=8580092&edition=2006479 - “An Old Fashioned Girl” by Louisa May Alcott - https://amzn.to/3BT4uo2 - “The Compound Effect: Jumpstart Your Income, Your Life, Your Success” by Darren Hardy - https://amzn.to/40fuIue Elisha: - “Do Hard Things: A Teenage Rebellion Against Low Expectation” by Alex Harris & Brett Harris - https://amzn.to/4a033kh - “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris - https://amzn.to/4j1nUYw - “Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time” by Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker - https://amzn.to/41WenvK - “Sin No More” by Michael Pearl - https://nogreaterjoy.org/shop/sin-no-more-booklet/?srsltid=AfmBOoozH_1ZhXaBVrclkzgtHcEQKVjHrNrlQduEceOsMmIi8K9n8yk_ - “Don't Waste Your Life” by John Piper - https://amzn.to/3Ph8GkP - “The Pursuit of God” by A.W. Tozer - https://amzn.to/4fAFkZe - “Desiring God” by John Piper - https://amzn.to/4fFqssr

Book Besties Season 7 Episode 13: IcebreakerIn this episode, the Besties are back together to start a month of holiday romances, starting with Icebreaker by Hanna Grace. Join us as we debate substance vs. spice, question the length of this book, and decide they're too old for this book. Listen April goes into an English nerd rant and Molly makes all words plural. Things talked about in this episode:Josh Harris about I Kissed Dating Goodbye: https://joshharris.com/a-statement-on/LeBron James: https://bit.ly/493ON9P A Merry Little Meet Cute: https://bit.ly/3BaZsmq Meet Molly and April, they bonded over books and became Book Besties. So, what do you do when you find your book bestie? Start a podcast of course. Hang out with April and Molly as they talk about everything they love and hate about books.

Send us a textEp. 190 - The two of us grew up at the height of the purity culture movement. We read the classic "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" and every other Christian book on courtship. We dated intentionally, wore our purity rings religiously and saved our kisses for marriage. Do we regret wearing our purity rings? What was the impact of purity culture in our lives? How are we going to raise our kids? Let's jump in. NEW BOOK: "Made to Be She: Reclaiming God's Plan for Fearless Femininity" Support the showJOIN US ON PATREON FOLLOW US:GirlDefined.comInstagram YouTube

How has the prosperity gospel influenced purity culture, and what does that mean for parenting today? The connections might surprise you. Purity Culture, much like the prosperity gospel, promises rewards for adhering to specific behaviors, but it often leads to disappointment and shame. And all too often in the church, parents apply this same type of thinking to their children. Parents assume that they will be rewarded with God-honoring, God-fearing children if they teach their children all the right things and parent the Biblical way. Like with the Prosperity Gospel and Purity Culture, the emphasis is on the outcome, not your child's relationship with God. In this thought-provoking episode of "Christian Parent/Crazy World," Catherine engages Dr. Lina Abujamra in a candid discussion about the harmful effects of Purity Culture in Christian communities. They highlight how Purity Culture parallels the Prosperity Gospel by creating unrealistic expectations and measuring spiritual worth through outcomes rather than genuine faith and grace. Episode Highlights: Purity Culture and Prosperity Gospel: Lina Abujamra draws parallels between purity culture and the prosperity gospel, noting how both promise material or relational rewards for specific behaviors. While purity culture emphasizes sexual abstinence with the promise of perfect marriages and fulfilling sex lives, the prosperity gospel promises material wealth and success for faithful followers. Misplaced Expectations: Both movements often set up unrealistic expectations, leading to disillusionment and shame when life doesn't unfold as promised. This results in individuals feeling unworthy or questioning their faith when they don't receive the anticipated rewards. Misogynistic Undertones: Lina and Catherine criticize the misogynistic tendencies within purity culture, where women often bear a disproportionate burden of maintaining purity. Object lessons like the chewed gum or wilted flower are used to shame women, implying that they lose their worth through sexual activity. Biblical Misinterpretations: Both purity culture and the prosperity gospel teachings divert from Biblical truths, focusing more on human efforts and rewards than on God's grace and the transformative power through a relationship with Christ. Impact on Young Believers: Catherine and Lina discuss the generational fallout from purity culture, noting how younger Christians are increasingly rejecting outdated, shaming shaming messages. This shift highlights the need for a more grace-filled, genuine approach to faith that centers on a deep, personal relationship with God.   Key Takeaways: - Parents should teach their children that faith isn't about earning rewards through good behavior, but about nurturing a genuine, loving relationship with Christ.   - Rejecting the false promises of purity culture and prosperity gospel can prevent the deep disappointment and shame that arise from unmet expectations. - A grace-filled approach to faith that acknowledges personal struggles and imperfection can lead to more authentic spiritual growth and fulfillment. - Both purity culture and prosperity gospel distort the Gospel's core message by equating spiritual worth with specific outcomes, rather than the inherent value found in a relationship with Jesus.   Guest bio: Dr. Lina Abujamra is a distinguished pediatric emergency room doctor, author, speaker, and the founder of Living With Power Ministries. Known for her dynamic and heartfelt approach, she offers practical biblical insights to help people navigate life's challenges with faith and resilience. Her most recent book, Don't Tell Anyone You're Reading This: A Christian Doctor's Thoughts on Sex, Shame, and Other Troublesome Issues, offers a candid look into her sexual struggles and the grace that brought her freedom. OTHER EPISODES IN THIS SERIES: Ep. 119 "Finding Freedom from Sexual Sin and Brokenness" EPISODE RESCOURCES: “A Statement on I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris Horatio Gates Spafford - “The Story behind the Hymn It is Well with My Soul” “The Amazingly Graced Life of John Newton” Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert by Rosaria Butterfield Gay Girl, Good God: The Story of Who I was and Who God Has always Been by Jackie Hill Perry A Change of Affection: A Gay Man's Incredible Story of Redemption by Becket Cook   SCRIPTURES REFERENCED: Matthew 5:8 John 13:35 Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

This week on the podcast, I am joined by Joshua Harris, author of the notorious book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", to discuss the book's lasting impact, as well as the importance of recognizing when our beliefs are negatively affecting others and being able to change our minds. The conversation in this episode is inspired by the topics and themes of my book "A Jumble of Crumpled Papers".   The Crumpled Papers Podcast now has a Patreon!  https://patreon.com/CrumpledPapersPodcast?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=join_link    Get your copy of “A Jumble of Crumpled Papers” here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BCD5PMX5/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=      Connect with us! Austin's Instagram: www.instagram.com/austin_noll  Podcast's Instagram: www.instagram.com/crumpledpaperspodcast  Email us at crumpledpaperspodcast@gmail.com   Check out Josh's work at "Clear and Loud"! www.clearandloud.com  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/clear-loud-with-josh-harris/id1612325690  Connect with Josh: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harrisjosh/     

This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you didn't, you're sure to be familiar with Joshua Harris, author of the wildly popular Christian dating, ahem, courting, book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He's here to share with us about his time inside of high control religion, what opened his eyes to the unhealthy dynamics inside the church and his process of healing after leaving. It's an episode that all of our younger selves never saw coming and definitely one you won't want to miss!  We'll also be squeezing in some prayer requests as Andrew is back to lift up those “unspokens” and you may have heard Laura say a couple weeks ago that our last episode of season 1 would be after this episode, but fear not, we'll be back in a couple weeks with a new episode and are excited to share the fun things we have coming in store for you this summer…because what's a Sunday School Dropout without Vacation Bible School?  This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery  The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions. The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups.  Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything  Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com  Hosts:  Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji  Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

On today's episode, we read through our listeners' experiences with the book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris, and purity culture in general. WE HAVE NEW MERCH AVAILABLE, AND A NEW MERCH SHOP, at https://leavingedenpodcast.threadless.comStream the Leaving Eden Podcast theme song, Rolling River of Time on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/artist/6lB7RwSQ9X5gnt1BDNugyS?si=jVhmqFfYRSiruRxekdLgKA.Join our Facebook Discussion group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/edenexodusJoin our subreddit! Reddit.com/r/EdenExodusInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/leavingedenpodcast/https://www.instagram.com/sadiecarpentermusic/https://www.instagram.com/gavrielhacohen/Twitter:https://twitter.com/HellYeahSadieFacebook:https://www.facebook.com/LeavingEdenPodcasthttps://www.facebook.com/GavrielHaCohen Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today we discuss "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," by Joshua Harris. This book, published in 1997, became the definitive guide to dating within purity culture in the evangelical movement from the late 1990s through the 2010s. While Joshua Harris has since disavowed all of the teachings of this book, the fear-based approach to dating and purity culture lives on. If you are a new listener to our show or are just finding out about the IFB from the "Let Us Prey" Documentary, we recommend listening to episode 57, as well as our 5-part "First Family of Fundamentalism" series from fall of 2020.WE HAVE NEW MERCH AVAILABLE, AND A NEW MERCH SHOP, at https://leavingedenpodcast.threadless.comStream the Leaving Eden Podcast theme song, Rolling River of Time on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/artist/6lB7RwSQ9X5gnt1BDNugyS?si=jVhmqFfYRSiruRxekdLgKA.Join our Facebook Discussion group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/edenexodusJoin our subreddit! Reddit.com/r/EdenExodusInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/leavingedenpodcast/https://www.instagram.com/sadiecarpentermusic/https://www.instagram.com/gavrielhacohen/Twitter:https://twitter.com/HellYeahSadieFacebook:https://www.facebook.com/LeavingEdenPodcasthttps://www.facebook.com/GavrielHaCohen Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Davey Jackson talks to Josh Harris about his infamous book, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" and the profound impact it had on Christians all over the world. "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" was the definitive guide to dating and relationships in the fundamental Christian community when it was published in 1997. It outlined "courtship" as a godly alternative to secular dating and was widely embraced by members of the Shiny Happy People cult. While the book's popularity was celebrated as a success for proponents of purity culture, Josh began to see inconsistencies in some of the Biblical teachings he had been promoting. Josh was faced with a drastic decision that would alter the course of his life and make waves throughout the evangelical community. Follow on social media: Josh Harris - @harrisjosh Friends With Davey - @friendswithdavey Davey Jackson - @daveyjax Check out the new Friends With Davey merch store: www.friendswithdavey.com Listen to Davey Jackson livestreaming with a new friend every Wednesday at 8:00PM CST. Podcast audio available on Spotify, iTunes, and all streaming platforms.

Josiah references two books: Presenting Jesus, the Son of Israel: A Jewish Commentary on the Gospels by Rivi LitvinNurture their Nature by Rabbi Yosef Lynn

Purity culture once dominated the American church scene, and the book at its center was I Kissed Dating Goodbye by Joshua Harris. Now, over 25 years later, Joshua and Shannon, his wife, have divorced. Joshua has renounced Christianity, and, most recently, Shannon has released a new, different perspective, in a book called The Woman They Wanted, giving us a behind-the-scenes view of what really went on in their church and their marriage. Now, in an exclusive interview, we talk to Shannon to hear all the hard truths of what really happened and what we can learn from the whole affair. This is an episode you cannot miss!!!

The Two Great Commandments sum up the laws given on Mount Sinai and intersect with every stage of our salvation - justification, sanctification, and glorification. - Sermon Transcript - This morning we're going to begin to embark on a vital journey into what I think is the very heart of God and the heart of our salvation. Why did God create us to begin with? Why did God create all things? What is our true nature? What is our purpose and what is our destiny, our destination? The text we're studying carefully for the next number of weeks holds a key to unlocking these central questions, these core questions, for, I believe that when all is said and done, it's all about these two great commandments. More specifically, it is that in heaven our hearts will be glorified, totally conformed to Christ, so that we will perfectly fulfill the two great commandments, every moment of our existence for all eternity, that we will finally love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and we'll finally love our neighbors as ourselves. I believe that these words rightly understood, sum up the law of God and the very heart of God. It's why we were created and they define also a perfect life in God's universe. They are our destiny in Christ. It all comes down then ultimately to one word “love.” The more I've meditated on our future in heaven, in a perfect world characterized by perfect love, vertically toward God and perfect love horizontally toward every redeemed person, I’ve seen how vital these two commandments really are. According to Jesus, they sum up the law and the prophets, and I have seen how much I have come to delight in them. As Paul says in Romans 7:22, “In my inner being, I delight in God's law,” and if you are born again, if you are redeemed, you do too. Or again, Psalm 119:97, “Oh how I love your law. I meditate on it all day long.” So I had an idea of preaching the sermon generally the way that I am going to preach it today, but I started to realize that as beautiful as these two great positive commandments are, we can't simply stay positive and just say love God and love others. The comprehension of that word “love” is anything but simple because of the entrance of sin into the universe, our ability to define love properly and to love properly is fatally damaged, diseased. Jeremiah 17:9, “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” The heart of sinful humanity is desperately wicked. It is diseased. It is beyond cure. In our sinful state, we cannot be trusted that “all you need is love.” Some of you're old enough to know what I'm talking about. All You Need is Love and other such songs, which I'm not going to shame myself by quoting right now. They're in my manuscript, but I'm not going to say them. This is all the world needs is love, just love. Most sinners will be delighted to hear that message and then go on to love whatever they want, however they want, whenever they want, and call it love. We will love in ways that our holy God calls deeply corrupt, and we'll cover it with a slogan like “Love is love.” Martin Luther, the great theologian, said very famously, “love God and do as you please.” Can I tell you generally, you will do that in heaven. Yes, and I'm looking forward to that. I'm going to talk about that, but we can't hear that properly here on earth. “Love God and do as you please” in our modern, corrupt age. That seems wonderful. Do whatever you want. Whatever your heart leads you to do, whatever makes you happy, whatever you truly love. Our hearts and minds and souls are drunk with sin and fatally, our judgment is fatally impaired. This week as I was preparing for this sermon, I read a pretty tragic article in Christianity Today. The author of the article was writing about a book written by Shannon Harris, who's the former wife of Joshua Harris, who some of you will remember wrote a book called I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He was a leader of what came to be called in a weird sort of way, “the purity culture” as though being against fornication was some new thing, but anyway, purity culture and the book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. Sadly, Joshua Harris has since renounced the Christian faith and apparently so has his former wife, Shannon. They're divorced and she spoke in her book, which the article was about in the strongest terms about healing from a culture of Christian shame over our hearts and over our choices. She was specifically hard on Calvinism, which she called worm theology, we're nothing but worms. She said in her book, we must strive to connect to our own wisdom, to nature and to our own fulfillment in work and pleasure and to our own ways of being and doing. The author of the article in Christianity Today spoke approvingly of how refreshing it must be for her readers to think positively about themselves and their bodies including their sexuality. After years of hearing harsh sermons about our foolish hearts and our sinful flesh when asked what this connecting to our bodies and our own heart's desires might look like in practice, Shannon Harris said, sometimes it might look like bringing your neighbor freshly made bread just to cheer them up, but other times it might look like following your own wisdom and seeking your own pleasure like binging on a sleeve of Oreos while watching porn or trolling someone you don't like online. Instead of spending time with your kids, she asserts that we are stunning image bearers of God and we've been given beautiful hearts and beautiful bodies and we need to follow our desires wherever they lead. As I read that, I was grieved not just about her, but about Christianity Today publishing an article like that. I saw that her theology was utterly corrupt, but it's nothing new, nothing new. Follow your heart. Have you ever heard that phrase, “follow your heart”? One commentator on the article said that that was the first commandment of every Hallmark Special that there's ever been— follow your heart. The prophet Jeremiah, who talked about the desperately wicked nature of the human heart, saw in the idolatrous people of Israel and Judah, that same drive, “follow your heart.” God spoke to them through the prophet again and again [Jeremiah 7:24], but they did not listen or pay attention. Instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. That sounds pretty relevant, doesn't it? They were following their heart, but there's some extra words here from Jeremiah—“they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts.” Nine times in Jeremiah, the same phrase is used “following the stubborn inclinations of evil hearts." It's a very strong theme in the book of Jeremiah. If all I do during these weeks that we look at the two great commandments is say, “love God and love others”, no matter how you define that, I would be failing as a pastor. I can't do that. Imagine two men sitting in a bar. One of them has been drinking heavily and the other is the designated driver. He's had nothing but ginger ale to drink all night. At the end of the evening, the drunk man says to his designated driver, “Friend, give me the keys. I want to drive home.” The sober friend asked, “Do you think you'll be okay driving?” The drunk man assures him that his judgment is fine and he's able to drive, and it won't be any problem at all. In the spirit of the age, the designated driver handing over the keys to this drunk man based on his self-confidence and his ability to drive and operate the vehicle may very well be signing that man's death warrant and that of some innocent bystanders. That man's judgment is fatally impaired. How much worse is our judgment when it comes to love naturally? Apart from the transforming grace of God, that's what we're like. As I initially conceived of the sermon, how the law of God, the two great commandments, interacts with us at different stages of our salvation, I wanted to just be positive, but I realized I can't do that. I have to do both. I have to talk about the positive but also the negative. The law, the prohibitions, are essential to show us not only what love is but what love isn't, and we need both. Let's start this morning with a simple summary of the encounter that Jesus had that opened up this vital topic. Look at Mark 22:28 and following, “One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating, noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer. He asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus ‘is this, Here O Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord is one, love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this, love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these .’ ‘Well said ,teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart and with all your understanding, with all your strength and to love your neighbors yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.’ He said to him, ‘You're not far from the kingdom of God.’” Stop there. So Jesus in the final week of his life has had one controversial encounter after another, but then along comes this man, called in another place an expert in the law, the laws of Moses, but this man is different than the others. He has a genuine heart after God. He really wants to know what is the greatest commandment. Jesus commends him as being not far from the kingdom of God. He comes to Jesus and says, “Of all the commandments, God has given us his people, which is the most important? He does not ask this as others have to justify himself, but he wants to understand the heart of God and he thinks that Jesus is a good teacher on this. I tell you, none better. He came to the right place and at the end of that encounter, this man shows a true yearning for intimacy with God. Jesus declares,”He's not far from the kingdom of God.” He's knocking on the door and you get the sense the door's about to swing open to him. Jesus gives his timeless answer: “The most important one is this, hear O Israel, the Lord our God, The Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, with all your strength.” Then Jesus added more than the man asked for, the second greatest commandment. “The second is this [verse 31] love your neighbors as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.” Now in Matthew's account there's some additional information in the exchange. Jesus says, “This is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is like it: Love your neighbors as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.” So the first commandment is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it, but not equal to it as God is infinitely more important than your neighbor. The first commandment is infinitely more important than the second, but Jesus then adds that all the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments. In other words, all the 613 commandments that the Jewish scholars counted in the Old Testament depend on these and are to some degree perfectly summed up by these two commandments. But these two great commandments are more than merely God's law given in the old covenant to the Jewish nation. They describe the perfect righteousness that Jesus gives us at the cross by faith, the beautiful life that God enables us to live by the spirit and the radiantly glorious perfection that we'll enjoy in heaven. So that's today's sermon, the two great commandments and how they intersect with us at every stage of our salvation. That's what we're going to walk through today. I. The Stages of Salvation So let's talk about the stages of the salvation. Jesus came into the world [Matthew 1:21]. The angel told Joseph, you'll give him the name Jesus because He will save his people from their sins. That's Jesus' mission, to save us from our sins or to expand it a little bit, to save us and the universe from everything that sin has done to us and to the universe. That's what Jesus came into the world to do and so, for us, in terms of our own sin, He came to save us from the penalty of sin, from the practice of sin and from the very presence of sin. Those translate into the three great stages of salvation: justification, sanctification, glorification. These are the three stages. We don't get our salvation all at once. Justification is the instantaneous work of God based on our faith in Christ and in his bloodshed on the cross, the instantaneous work of God in declaring us not guilty before him of all of our sins, putting it simply, forgiven, forgiven and seen to be righteous in his sight, not by works, but by faith in the blood of Christ. Sanctification is a gradual process by which justified people are transformed more and more into Christ's likeness, Christ-like mind and heart leading to a Christ-like lifestyle. It is a mysterious process worked by cooperation between the regenerate person who has a new heart and a new nature, and the indwelling Holy Spirit, a mysterious cooperation between the two. We are to be led by the spirit to put sin to death by the Spirit and the Spirit’s works. Positive virtues summed up by the two great commandments, positive virtues in us such as the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithful, self-control. This is sanctification, gradual transformation of lifestyle, mind, heart, life. It works by practice, by habit, by the ministry of the word of God, by intense effort fighting the good fight on the part of the Christian, it never ends in this life. We'll never be perfect in this life. It's a constant seeking after Christ-like perfection. "Sanctification is a gradual process by which justified people are transformed more and more into Christ's likeness, Christ-like mind and heart leading to a Christ-like lifestyle. It is a mysterious process worked by cooperation between the regenerate person who has a new heart and a new nature, and the indwelling Holy Spirit." Glorification is the instantaneous work of God, whereby by his sovereign power, he instantly conforms the Christian to absolute perfection in the likeness of Christ. It happens generally in two stages. First at death when the spirit is separated from the body and the body goes to corruption, but the spirit is instantly made perfect and brought into the presence of God, it will never sin again. The spirit absent from the body, present with the Lord, is pure and perfect in conformity to Christ, but the salvation isn't finished yet. It happens at the end of the age, at the coming of Christ. When the dead in Christ are raised, those that are still alive also mysteriously instantly transformed. All of them receiving resurrection bodies to Christ's resurrection body. That's it. That's the finish line. Meanwhile, some really awesome things are happening with the universe as well. It's made new, new heaven, new earth. I would say it's resurrected like our bodies into perfection. That's where we're heading. It sounds magnificent. Those are the stages of salvation. II. The Two Great Commandments and Justification Now, what I want to do is I want to line up the two great commandments with each stage because the law functions differently at each stage. When I was practicing this unbelievably long sermon yesterday, and it is long, but when I was practicing it, I realized when I got to sanctification, I myself became a little discouraged at how long I'd been talking. I want you to know the sermon's not equally weighted, just I'm warning or encouraging you. I don't know what word here, but much more on justification than sanctification and glorification. Also, I want you to know it’s like a hot air balloon. I'm pitching things out of the gondola every minute here on my outline, so I'm doing fine. So let's talk about the two great commandments. First of all, in justification, prior to justification, the law, the two great commandments, the law convicts us and brings us to Christ for salvation. The law diagnoses our heart condition and shows us the depths of our disease. We cannot simply be positive. As I've said, we cannot simply say love God and love others. We need the prohibitions and the Ten Commandments are mostly negative. Nine out of the ten of them are negative. We are to have no other gods beside the true God for to have any other gods is to worship an idol. We are not to make any physical representations of God, no idols. We are not to take the name of the Lord in vain. We are to do no work on the Sabbath. We are to honor our father and mother. We are not to murder other people. We are not to commit adultery. We are not to steal. We are not to bear false witness and we are not to covet anything that belongs to anyone else. Nine of the ten of them are negative. If all we do is say to people “Love God and love others,” they'll think they already do in their definition of love. Broadly and weirdly, we are so defiled in our minds, we cannot possibly define love properly. In Romans 1 through 3, Paul unfolds this and shows how corrupt, sinful humanity is by the things they actually love in their lostness. For example, Romans 1:26 says, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.” Now that word “shameful lust” in the King James version is “vile affections;” things that people love that they shouldn't, or again, in the ESV text, “dishonorable passions” and that's nestled in a discussion of homosexuality. “Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust. For one another, men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” You can't tell those people just love whatever you want or however you want. Paul then goes on to show how our depraved minds lead to all manner of strange affections. Loves that lead to wicked practices. "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind to do what ought not to be done. They become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They're full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love no mercy. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things, but also approve of those that practice them.” [Romans 1:28-32] Do you not see how it's corrupt love that leads to depraved actions. In Romans 7, Paul cites a negative command, a prohibition as showing him his sinfulness. In Romans 7,8, and 9, he said, “I would not have known what sin was except through the law for I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, do not covet but sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the command produced in me every kind of covetous desire.” Coveting is by definition loving something you ought not to love. And yet for all of that in Romans, Paul turns the whole thing around and says, all of the horizontal commands that are prohibitions can be summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself, all of them. Romans 13:9-10, “The commandments,” do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be are summed up in this one rule. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.” So I'm not wrong, Christ isn't wrong saying that the two great commandments sums everything up, but we still need the specificity of the prohibitions to diagnose the corruption of our hearts. Ultimately though, if understood properly, the positive commands are crushing. There are people that can go through life and never murder and never commit adultery, although they still are going to yearn to murder through anger and yearn to commit adultery through lust as Jesus said in the Sermon of the Mount. “But who can rightly say, I have loved God with all of my heart, with all of my soul, with all of my strength and with all of my mind, every moment of my life, and I have loved my neighbor the way I love myself every day. Who could actually say that we did not do these things?” Charles Spurgeon said this. Is there someone here so profoundly brainless as to reply: “I intend to keep it. I believe I can perfectly obey it and I think I can get to heaven by obedience to it.” Man, you are either a fool or else willfully ignorant for sure. If you truly understand this commandment, you'll at once hang down your hands and say obedience of that is quite impossible, thorough and perfect obedience of that no man can hope to reach, though some of you think you'll go to heaven by your good works. This is the first stone that you are to step upon and I am sure it is too high for your reach. You might as well try to climb to heaven by the mountains of earth and take the Himalayas to be your first step for to obey. This must ever be an impossibility, but remember, you cannot be saved by your works if you do not obey this entirely perfectly, constantly and forever. Well, someone replies, “I dare say, if I try and obey it as well as I can that will do.” No sir, it will not. God demands that you perfectly obey this and if you do not perfectly obey it, He will condemn you. Oh, someone cries out: “Who then can be saved?” That is the point to which I wish to bring you: who can be saved by this law? No one in the world. Salvation by the works of the laws proves to be an impossibility. None of you therefore will say you will try to obey it and so hope to be saved. I hear the best Christian in the world groan, “Oh God,” he says, “I am guilty. Should you cast me into hell. I dare not say otherwise. I have broken this command from my youth up even since my conversion. I have violated it every day. I know that if you should lay justice to the line and righteousness to the plummet, I would be swept away forever. Lord, I renounce my trust in the law for by it I know I can never see your face and be accepted.” Then the law in this phase of our salvation hunts us down relentlessly to bring us to justice. I picture an avenger chasing my fleeing conscience. I picture Inspector Javert, a miserable prison guard who rose to become a prison inspector relentlessly and hunt down Jean Valjean. He would never turn away, could not, would not show mercy. So it is with the law of God. It cannot show mercy in this phase. In Pilgrim's Progress, when Faithful is relating to Christian his testimony, he's trying to get up the terrifying Mount Sinai that Christian also tried to ascend for his own salvation. Suddenly he looked behind him and saw a man chasing him as swiftly as the wind. He overtook Faithful and began beating him savagely. He knocked him to the ground and laid him unconscious as if dead. When he awoke, he asked this man why he treated him like that. The man answered it was because of his secret inclination to sin. Then he struck him again, viciously on the chest and beat him back down to the ground once again. Faithful, laid at this man's feet like a dead man. When he came to again, he begged this man for mercy, but the man answered, I do not know how to show mercy. This man would've finished Faithful off once and for all, but another man came and told him to stop. Christian asked Faithful who was the man that told him to stop. Faithful, answered, “I did not know him at first, but I perceived that he had holes in his hands and his side, so I concluded he was our Lord Jesus.” Christian told Faithful the man who struck him was Moses, and he spares no one. He does not know how to show mercy to those that violate his law. Anyway, that's a picture of how the law pursues sinners to death. It is not the task of the law to save you, to show mercy to you. It requires absolute and perfect obedience to every precept, large and small for your whole life. You all know it's too late. It cannot show you mercy, the law will hunt down the sinner and pursue him until he finds the only refuge there is and that is the cross of Jesus Christ. The law with its written code of regulations kills us. Colossians 2:14, “(The law) was against us and stood opposed to us.” Second Corinthians 3:6, “the letter kills.” Second Corinthians 3:7, “The ministry that brought death was engraved in letters on stone.” Paul says in Romans 7, “Once I was alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.” So during our days of conviction, before our conversion, we realized that we have sin more than we can possibly recount. Day after day, we have failed to keep the Ten Commandments. We have failed to keep the two Great Commandments. We have not loved God with all of our hearts, all our souls, all our minds, all our strength. Not at all. Actually, our sinful mind was hostile to God, it didn't submit to God's law. It couldn't. We secretly hated his purity. We secretly hated his authority, his right to send us to hell. We have been disgusted by or bored by aspects of his Word. We have pursued created things rather than the creator. We have lived for pleasure and money and pride and various secret lusts. Furthermore, we have not loved our neighbor as ourselves. We have been selfish with our time, our energy and our money. We've hated other people, been angry at them, irritated by them. We've coveted their possessions and their accomplishments and achievements in their people. We have seethed with resentment at people's affronts and we've sought revenge in our own ways. We've slandered them, gossiped against them, secretly connived to ruin them. The record of the infamous is far longer than we can possibly imagine on the basis of them. The law hunts us down to kill us. It chases our consciences, accuses us with no remedy. It drives us to the cross. It drives us hard to the cross and the Lord is drawing us in that process to salvation. The Holy Spirit is given to convict the world of guilt. Essential to that are the relentless claims of the two Great Commandments, for that is how God defines sin. The second commandment is that you love your neighbor as yourself. On Judgment Day Jesus will say to many, “I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger. You did not invite me in. I needed clothes and you did not clothe me. I was sick and imprisoned and you did nothing to help me. You just walk right by.” Those are failures of the second Great Commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. The Spirit presses these claims on us, shatters our self righteousness and makes us spiritual beggars and brings us to Calvary. What do we find at Calvary? First, you see a man crushed under the wrath and the justice of God because we have transgressed these commandments. That's what you find there. You find a man who is willing to take your punishment on himself in your place. That's what you find there, all of the wrath that we deserve for our violations of the two Great Commandments, He absorbed. He drank the cup of God's wrath. He cried out,”My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” because we didn't keep these commandments. He was seen positionally to be the most unloving man in history who absolutely did not love God with all of his heart, soul, mind and strength, and did not love his neighbor as himself, positionally as our substitute, though He was perfectly righteous. What do we find at the cross? We find a man, the only man in history who has ever perfectly obeyed these two commandments. He was the most loving man who ever lived vertically and horizontally every moment of his life. He loved his father, cherished his father. He said, “I always do what pleases him.” Think about that, “I always do what pleases him.” He also gave himself horizontally day after day to other people. I often picture some of these crazy days that Jesus had in his ministry, the relentless press of a crowd desperate for physical healing. Think of what it would be like, and He seems like he healed people for the most part one at a time. I have no evidence there were any mass healings. He touched people, gave a word to lepers, blind people, paralyzed people. What was a day like? At the end of the day, I picture him exhausted and there's one more person coming, Jarius, and he's got a daughter who's dying and there's no self pity. Not “do you realize what kind of day I've had? Come back tomorrow.” There's none of that. He gets up, He will go. Has anyone ever loved his neighbor like Jesus? The ultimate picture and proof of both the vertical and the horizontal is his death on the cross. He said that the world must learn that He loved his father and obeyed him. They would see it when He died, and it was for us that He died. What's so beautiful is that this perfect righteousness, this perfect obedience to the two great commandments is offered to us as a gift freely. That's incredible. Do you see that positionally, He's offering perfect obedience for his whole life to you as a gift. It's called imputed righteousness. Listen to Romans 5:19, “For just as through the disobedience of the one man, Adam, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man, the many were made righteous.” Righteous equals obedient. By faith in Christ, Jesus makes you obedient to the law of God, positionally as though you have never violated his law. Do you realize what good news that is? All the times you have failed to love vertically and horizontally were put on Jesus. He paid for it with his perfect righteousness. He won by a life of love. He offers you a beautiful robe of righteousness. “Here, put this on. You're going to need it on Judgment Day. Put it on, now.” How beautiful is that? Right now, I want to invite anyone who came in here trusting in his or her own righteousness to throw it away and look to Christ only for forgiveness of sins. Look to Christ only for salvation. Trust in him alone. I was on a plane coming back here, sitting with a man. We had a great conversation. He's about my age, Roman Catholic, very religious. He’d been on a number of pilgrimages to Rome, went up that staircase on his knees. I said, “Why did you do that?” We'd already talked about the gospel. He said, “Well, it can't hurt.” I think it can. I'm not meaning physically. I'm sure it hurt physically, but if you're trusting in your works to save you, you cannot come to Christ. III. The Two Great Commandments and Sanctification Secondly, two great commandments and sanctification. Once we have been crushed by God's law and brought to faith in Christ at that moment, God's sovereignly takes out the heart of stone and gives us a living heart, a heart of flesh, and moves us to obey his commands and keep his statutes and that specifically means the two Great Commandments. Suddenly, the law instead of standing opposed to you as your greatest enemy now becomes your greatest friend in defining a good life, a righteous life, a blessed life, and the indwelling Holy Spirit is given to combine with your new nature, that heart of flesh that's been given, and in a mysterious combination. The Spirit moves you to obey God's laws as it says in Romans 8:4, “In order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us who do not live according to the sinful nature, but according to the spirit.” We now live out the law. Day by day in our sanctification, the Holy Spirit energizes us and moves us and says basically day after day after day of your Christian life, love God and love others. He says that to you every day, love God and love others. Every moment of every day, the Spirit pushes us more and more to love God. And we see, as I mentioned at the beginning of my sermon, the beauty of God's laws, the perfection of them in my inner being. I delight in God's law. Romans 7:22 and Psalm 119:32, “I run in the path of your commands for you have set my heart free. Your statutes are my delight. They're my counselors. I delight in your decrees. I will not neglect your word. Direct me in the path of your commands. For there I find delight. I delight in your commands because I love them.” Psalm 119, that's a regenerate heart, crying out, “I love your law. It's my best friend. Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path." [Psalm 119:105] It shows me what to do. Or Psalm 19, “The law of the Lord is perfect. Reviving the soul. The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise, the simple, the precepts of the Lord are right, giving joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are radiant, giving light to the eyes. The fear of the Lord is pure enduring forever. The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous. They're more precious than gold, than much pure gold. They're sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.” So the Spirit instructs us daily on what love for God looks like: to delight in God's very being, to delight in his word, to delight in his purposes in the world, his intentions for you to delight in these things. All of those bring to us a deep desire to please God day after day one. [John 15:10], This is love for God to obey His commands and his commands are not burdensome. The Spirit also convicts us when we fail, doesn't He? When our hearts are hard and distant from God, when we nail it in corporate worship, “these people worship with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” That's us. Sometimes the Spirit's there to convict us when our actions dishonor him, when we violate some of the prohibitions that we know are still part of the moral law of God, when we lust, when we're lazy, when we're selfish, when we're angry, carnally angry, when we say things we wish we hadn't said and we regret it. The Holy Spirit convicts us, saying, “That was not loving.” It was not loving, and He's convicting you and bringing you again and again to this perfect standard of loving God with all of your heart, soul, mine, and strength. Love your neighbors yourself. That's what He does. The battle within us is a battle over these two Great Commandments [Romans 7], “So I find this law at work when I want to do good. Evil is right there with me for my inner being. I delight in God's law, but I see another law at work in the members of my body waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am. Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Brothers and sisters, someday you're going to be delivered from this body of death and the war will be over. You'll be done fighting. VI. Two Great Commandments and Glorification What's it going to be like in heaven? I'll tell you what it's going to be like. Heaven will be a world of love and you'll spend eternity, perfectly loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and your heart will be so expanded toward your brothers and sisters in Christ redeemed. They will shine like the sun and so will you. You will delight in their beauty and in their achievements. You'll not be jealous of them. You'll want to hear their stories, how God saved them. Your heart will be so expanded to take them in yourself that when one part of the body is honored, the whole body will be honored with it. And I picture this way, I'm just telling a story about myself. I'm an introvert. I know that's a little weird. Here I am in front of all these people, but I'm an introvert. It doesn't mean I don't like people. I do. I love people, but I think what it means is you're kind of energized by being alone. But I picture being so healed from the dark side of whatever that is, that I'll be sitting on some beautiful hill on the new earth and suddenly 50 people will come along. Ordinarily I would get up and find another quiet spot, but I'll be thrilled that all 50 of you are there and if another 50 come along, that'll be even better. The best of all will be vertical. You'll see the face of God directly. And God alone will be the joy of our eternal home. He will be our one desire. Our hearts will never tire of God and God alone. That's what we're going to spend eternity doing. "Heaven will be a world of love and you'll spend eternity, perfectly loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and your heart will be so expanded toward your brothers and sisters in Christ redeemed." Close with me in prayer. Father, we thank you for this time that we've had to study your word, to study the law. We thank you, oh Lord, that this law, which was at one point, our enemy that stood opposed to us, was against us, has now become our sweetest and deepest friend in defining a pure and holy life. We thank you that Christ’s righteousness has been given to us as a gift, and now is being worked in us actually by the Spirit and will be given to us directly and completely and perfectly at the end. Give us hope, oh Lord, help us to realize that our battle with sin is not in vain. Someday we will triumph. We will be more than conquerors through him who loved us. In Jesus' name, Amen.

Shannon Harris, ex-wife of the man who wrote "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" shares her story in her own book "The Woman They Wanted."

Shannon Harris is on the podcast this week. We talk about her new book The Woman they Wanted: Shattering the Illusion of the Good Christian WifeI have a particular interest in this book because it's a behind the scenes look at the culture of the church I grew up in: Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Maryland. There is national relevance for Shannon's story, however, because she was married to Joshua Harris, author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye, for 21 years. Josh's book was a national best-seller and shaped the romantic and sexual lives of countless evangelical Christians. Josh and Shannon divorced in 2019, which was big enough news at the time to be written up by CNN.I asked Shannon:who she wrote the book forhow she thinks about the idea that some will not listen to anything she says because she doesn't believe everything they dothe ways in which the church we both spent years in taught us to distrust our intuition and our gutabout her account of the sidelining and erasure of women in a religious subcultureI read this book very quickly. It's well-written, highly readable, and written in very short chapters. I also think Shannon deals with delicate stories involving other people — especially the leaders from our church — with a deft and tasteful touch.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Runaway Eve Book Club is once again in session. We're continuing our deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. If you want to read along with "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

Whether it was the homeschooling movement, Bill Gothard, or I Kissed Dating Goodbye, lots of people feel like their Christian Fundamentalist upbringing in the 80s/90s did them more harm than good. In this episode, Joël and Rick talk about what's right and wrong about fundamentalism. 

https://iamdyingoutloud.org/Author Sam Torode was once a devout Christian, a proponent of Abstinence and the anti-birth-control movement, and even penned the forward for the now-unpublished best selling book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Josh Harris.Now, Sam looks back on his past from an entirely new lens, recognizing that sometimes our best intentions are our worst ideas. Check out his episode, and then peruse his extensive list of published work here:https://www.samtorode.com/books.html__________________________________________________________Find this episode, and others here:Website:www.growingupfundiepodcast.comSpotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/2EHJGf8kGbSV9SRbqsfYKSApple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/growing-up-fundie/id1602008078Amazon Music:https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ad6ac91e-c2fb-47d6-8658-df8aed941eac/growing-up-fundiePatreon:https://www.patreon.com/sydneydavisjrjrBuzzsprout Subscriptions:https://www.buzzsprout.com/1908164/supporters/newYoutube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5QuI5etVfbJoTVAhbRGMkADiscord:https://discord.gg/XQNG4nD5Our Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrowingUpFundie/More about the host, Sydney Davis Jr. Jr.sydneydavisjrjr.comThink you might make a great guest, or know someone who would be?Apply for yourself, or nominate someone here:https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeHiy8KYW38tyKUD6MbFmOwCKdeWVHAbIA9qst1RBQf4rRPXg/viewform?usp=share_linkSupport the show

Today's episode is all about non-monogamy -- ethical non-monogamy, consensual non-monogamy, polyamory, monogamish, and everything in between. Kaia shares about her own journey of dating non-monogamously: the good dates, the bad relationships, and the euphoric moments alike. --If today's episode reminds you of a story or sentiment you'd like to share with the Warmly community, click here. --Special thanks.Warmly's theme music is written and produced by A Day Without Love. You can listen to more of their stuff here.Stay in touch.You can subscribe to Lately, the Warmly newsletter that goes out once a month, at the end of the month. Click here to subscribe.  If you want some more consistent updates, you can follow Warmly on Instagram or Facebook. Leave a review.To leave an honest review of Warmly click here. 

Purity culture was/is a movement that started in the 1990s primarily within Evangelical American Christianity which emphasized individual "purity," generally associated with female chastity.  Purity culture places a strong emphasis on abstinence before marriage. In some circles, dating was discouraged entirely to avoid pre-marital sex (the book, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Josh Harris promoted abstinence and popularized the concept of “courtship” as an alternative to dating. This book sold over a million copies). It's pretty obvious from the Scriptures that God wants Christians to live lives of sexual purity. But did purity culture promote a Biblical vision of sexuality? Or did it use shame and fear? Or even worse…did it promote soft prosperity gospel- in that a certain methodology of relationships would deliver a happily-ever-after ending—a great marriage, a great sex life—even though this isn't necessarily promised by Scripture?

Buckle in for the deep dark history of American Evangelical Virginity. A construct void of consent education, logic, and biblical reason; the girls teach you how purity culture was a federally funded ploy to combat the AIDS crisis and continue the white race. They talk about all the myths we were taught in sunday school and how we somehow ended up with beliefs about pap smears breaking your hymen and the sinlessness of anal sex. If you too read I Kissed Dating Goodbye you are entitled to financial compensation. Give Me Sex, Jesus (Vimeo) https://vimeo.com/137784146 Virgin Nation By Sara Moslener https://www.google.com/books/edition/Virgin_Nation/HiqaCAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 Queering the Virgin https://journals.openedition.org/ejas/11818 I Kissed Dating Goodbye Documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBqPkIXtblw Broken Promises: Abstinence Pledging and Sexual and Reproductive Health https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jomf.12279

Jess and Devi look back at their teenage years and wonder what if... we hadn't kissed dating goodbye. We talk about: what it's like to not get asked out our first dates regrets wisdom we learned along the way what YOU would tell your younger self about dating Full show notes here (so many links about dating and app dating) Follow us on Instagram and Twitter Partner with us to hear our romcom recap next week - Center Stage. It's a ballet drama with a lot to say about romance, body image, and power. Get it here for $3/month (USD). It's coming on Monday!

The Runaway Eve Book Club is once again in session. We're continuing our deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. I'm still sharing Eve 6- “Jesus Nitelite”, because the entire theme of this chapter is right person, wrong time. (Bonus: little known EP from 1996 that is AMAZING, Eleventeen; CW for some outdated language) If you want to read along with "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

Roy Kim and Wilson Wang are joined again by Jenn Hsu, continuing their series revolving around the topic of Relationships. In this episode, we talk about different approaches to dating. Some of our talking points: "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Joshua Harris messed us up! You learn a lot about yourself when you're in a dating relationship The Chicken approach to dating vs The Eagle approach Do you have an off-ramp in your dating relationship? A successful relationship does not always end in marriage Sex has a way of masking true intimacy and character flaws Being desperate is not good for your evaluation skills We are complete as single people What do we look for when we are dating someone? Go to more Larping events   As always, we hope that something you hear helps you feel like you're not alone, that there are others in the same boat as you. Drop us a line: thesameboatpod@gmail.com   Follow Jenn Hsu on Instagram: @jenn_is_n.eat Produced by Clayton Yip [@yipster_hipster] Logo by Hyeyoon Chong [@hye.img] Music by Nathan Baldwin   Wilson Wang is lead pastor of Renew Church OC (www.renewchurchoc.com) and author of the "Called to Be" series and "The Adulting Journal" (www.calledtobeproject.com). You can listen to his sermons here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/renew-church-oc/id1038985827   Roy Kim can be found on social media @thisisroykim Other podcasts: SA Speakeasy [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sa-speakeasy/id1438434927] New Therapist FAQ [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-therapist-faq/id1514669839]   Mentioned in today's episode: "How to Get a Date Worth Keeping" by Henry Cloud https://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Date-Worth-Keeping/dp/0310262658    

In 1997, Josh Harris wrote and released a book called I Kissed Dating Goodbye. The book quickly became a best seller, and purity culture was born.Liefway Christian Booksellers produced True Love Waits—a program primarily designed to teach teens the biblical path to marriage. The program, however, produced unintentional results. Dr. Sandra Glahn of Dallas Theological Seminary sits down with Rebecca Carrell and Liz Rodriguez to talk about the ramifications of purity culture on women and how to rebuild right relationships between men and women in the church.Find more about Dr. Sandra Glahn at http://aspire2.com/.Purchase Dr. Glahn's most recent Bible study at http://aspire2.com/books/coffee-cup-bible-series/.Connect with Dr. Glahn on social media: @sandraglahn If you enjoy the show, would you please consider rating and reviewing Honestly, Though? Those reviews help others find us in the PodUniverse, and we deeply appreciate the love! Also, you can reach out to us personally to join the conversation on the following platforms:Rebecca Carrell: https://www.rebeccacarrell.com/ ; IG - @RebeccaCarrell ; Twitter: @RebeccaACarrell ; FB - Rebecca Ashbrook CarrellLiz Rodriguez: IG: @lizannrodriguez ; FB - Liz Rodriguez - https://www.facebook.com/liz.rodriguez.92775Nika Spaulding: stjudeoakcliff.org ; IG - @NikaAdidas ; Twitter - @NikaAdidas

Rachel Welcher and Amber discuss holding up God's sexual ethic while proclaiming the truth that Jesus forgives and how purity is not a badge of honor that promises us a spouse, a great marriage or a fulfilled sex life. Questions Discussed During Talking Back to Purity Culture: (8:37) As a young, Christian female growing up in the 90's you read books like I Kissed Dating Goodbye, When God Writes Your Love Story, among others. What messages did you begin to internalize in your youth about Christian sexuality and marriage? (13:23) What are some of the things that God does teach about purity in marriage from his word that differ from some of the messages authors would share? 918:07) Regarding your book, Talking Back to Purity Culture, you said, "My goal is not to create a new sexual ethic but to help the church return to a more faithful, orthodox understanding of the Bible says about sexuality and the grace and forgiveness we have through Jesus Christ." Will you expound on that a bit? (22:46) You write, "We wore purity rings as badges of honor, forgetting that it is Jesus who cleanses us from all unrighteousness. The Christian pursuit of sexual purity is biblical, but it must flow out of a recognition that it is Jesus who makes us pure." How does that shift change everything? (25:42) Christian teachings on purity will often place more responsibility on women to preserve the purity of both genders through modest dressing, body language, and so on. Where does this fall short and what are some more healthy ways we can discuss these topics with girls today? (34:13) Reading books in a group can help facilitate conversation on hard topics. How did you encouraged those conversations when you were teaching? (36:43) I deeply appreciate that you end each chapter with discussion questions and an activity. With that said, when readers get to the end of your book, what lessons do you hope they will have learned about sexual purity? SHOW NOTES cont.  Resources Mentioned: Book: Talking Back to Purity Culture by Rachel Joy Welcher Related Episodes: 196: Dean Inserra | Is the Bible's Plan for Sexuality Outdated? 102: Christopher Yuan | Transformation and Holy Sexuality 125: Laura Perry | Transgender to Transformed 119: Shelia Gregoire | Exposing Lies Christians Believe About Sex Come be a part of the Grace Enough Gang Follow Grace Enough: Instagram | Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode we give you the second half of our chat with Hannah Smith (1:40) exploring the implications of Josh Harris's book I KISSED DATING GOODBYE. We hear how Justin and and Hannah have continued to reshape their relationships to sexuality after growing up in repressive Christian communities. In the second half (28:25), Justin and Dan dig into chapter 2 of Esther Perel's MATING IN CAPTIVITY. We look at Esther's belief that too much intimacy, closeness, and comfort can be the death of passion and sexual vitality. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the first half of our two-part discussion, we welcome our friend Hannah Smith: host of the hit true-crime podcast THE OPPORTUNIST. As teens, Justin and Hannah both read the books of Joshua Harris including the best-selling sensation I KISSED DATING GOODBYE. Join us as we unpack the impact this book had on both Justin and Hannah when they first read it. We look at its messaging, context, and Josh Harris's pivot away from the Evangelical Christian community and renunciation of the book. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Joshua Harris is the author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye, a best-selling book in the late '90s touting courtship as the superior way to find God's perfect match for you & avoid the perils of sexual sin. It was a required read for many in the evangelical Christian community. In this episode, Josh shares how he changed his mind about the ideas in the book, how our sex lives & careers are connected, and the pros & cons of old-fashioned dating & sexism in the church.If you liked this episode, you'll also like episode 90: PURITY CULTURE IN A CULT: CONFESSIONS OF A TEENAGE JESUS JERKGuest: https://www.instagram.com/harrisjosh/ | https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/clear-loud-with-josh-harris/id1612325690https://joshharris.com/ | https://twitter.com/HarrisJoshHost:  https://www.meredithforreal.com/  | https://www.instagram.com/meredithforreal/  | meredith@meredithforreal.com | https://www.youtube.com/meredithforreal  | https://www.facebook.com/meredithforrealthecuriousintrovertSponsors: https://uwf.edu/university-advancement/departments/historic-trust/ | https://www.ensec.net/

From Joshua Harris' powerfully influential book I Kissed Dating Goodbye to Bill Gothard's Institute in Basic Life Principles to abstinence pledges to multi-layered cottage industries of virtue and chastity, the Christian, homeschool scene of the past several decades has been saturated in a movement seeking purity from a sexualized and secularized world loosely defined as Purity Culture.  What is Purity Culture?  How and why did it come about?  What have the lasting effects of the movement been?  What are the pros and cons of its basic tenets and teachings?   Brooke Medina leads the group in discussing these very questions.  All four hosts had experience growing up in Purity Culture and bring their unique perspectives to the conversation.  But wait!  There's more!  For the first time the hosts welcome a guest as Calvin Moore's wife, Jennifer Moore, joins the episode to bring balance to the otherwise overly male-centric dynamics of the group.  

Ross and Carrie welcome Alice Greczyn, an actress and author of the  memoir Wayward: Spiritual Warfare and Sexual Purity. In this funny and painful retelling, a tide of evangelical Christianity sweeps over Alice's working class family, convincing her parents that God has called them to a life of voluntary poverty. Now, years later in Los Angeles, she sits down with Ross and Carrie to talk about purity culture, revival “miracles,” and the psychological burdens of writing a memoir. We have social media: Twitter! Facebook!

The Runaway Eve Book Club is once again in session. We're continuing our deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. In this episode, I mention Eric and Leslie Ludy (allegedly the “Eric and Leslie” Josh mentions in his book). You can learn more about them and their books here. Tread lightly if you're sensitive to Evangelical bullshit. Eve 6- “Jesus Nitelite” (Bonus: little known EP from 1996 that is AMAZING, Eleventeen; CW for some outdated language) If you want to read along with "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

Join us for the final episode of season 8! Krispin and Danielle talk about the classic purity culture read, I Kissed Dating Goodbye, Boy Meets Girl and When God Writes Your Love Story. Krispin mentions Emotionally Focused Therapy—find more about that here. We have a website—check it out for more information. You can also find us on Twitter and Instagram. To support our show (we can't do this without you!), join us on Patreon! You'll get access to our monthly patron-only episodes (including the entire backlog), as well as occasional zoom hangouts. And potentially, Krispin will share his online magazine writings. You can join this community for as little as $1.50 a month! Cover art by Zech Bard.

The Runaway Eve Book Club is once again in session. We're continuing our deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. In this episode, I mention Ravi Zacharias. While I'm hesitant to send you to Christianity Today legitimately, the most comprehensive overview of who he was and what he did can be found here. Massive content warning for themes of rape, sexual assault, abuse of power, etc. If you want to read along with "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

The Runaway Eve Book Club is once again in session. We're continuing our deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. In this episode, I mentioned the book "A Single Revolution: Don't look for a match. Light one." by Shani Silver. Check her out and purchase the book here! If you want to read along with "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

The last 2-digit episode of the Bad Brothers podcast. Maybe someone could make an NFT. Michael dreams of having a clean conscience. Will relives mornings at the University of Delaware. Also: fox breeding, pig hearts, Bear Grylls, I Kissed Dating Goodbye, coats with the fur, Chester Bennington, & vanity. Instagram https://instagram.com/badbrotherspodcast  Apple https://apple.co/2JeSUIr Spotify https://sptfy.com/badbrotherspod   Bad Brothers Pod Michael and Will Browning Port Orchard (& Gig Harbor), Washington's Finest Podcast 

Rob McKenzie stopped by from the Reformed Forum and His podcast Theology Simply Profound to let Matt know his take on the recent episode regarding I Kissed Dating Goodbye was wrong. Enjoy the Conversation.  You can follow this podcast all over the internet. twitter,   instagram.    or facebook Or email us at restlesspodcasting@gmail.com

Rob McKenzie stopped by from the Reformed Forum and His podcast Theology Simply Profound to let Matt know his take on the recent episode regarding I Kissed Dating Goodbye was wrong.

Join me and my friend Meghan of the podcast Religious Trauma as we discuss, well, our religious trauma. We talk about purity culture and what that looked like in our own Christian upbringing, deconstruction as adults, and how Joshua Harris of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" infamy is our mortal enemy.

Trigger warning: This episode contains material that may be difficult for some of our listeners to hear. Conversations cover porn, body shaming, Josh Harris, I Kissed Dating Goodbye, statutory rape,  purity culture and abortion. #porn #bodyshaming#JoshuaHarris #JoshHarris#IKissedDatingGoodbye#statutoryrape#purityculture#abortion#sexuallycurious#shamed#dating#relationships#courting#courtship#exvangelical#boymeetsgirl#findingfreedom#onestoryatatime#speakingup#speakingoutSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/user?u=8739294)

Join me for the first meeting of the Runaway Eve Book Club! We're taking a deep dive into the infamous "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", written by Evangelical darling of the 90s Joshua Harris. Yes, he's since renounced the book. Yes, he's since "apologized". But, as they say... "there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known". (It's the Bible. The Bible says that.) So we're taking Josh to task and discussing the ways he upheld and solidified the damaging and dangerous beliefs inherent to Christian dating and courtship, and holding him accountable for the ways this book has reverberated through many of our lives. If you want to read along, I would suggest using Daddy G to search for a free pdf copy, which is what I did. If you must purchase the book, please at least look for an indie bookstore to patronize. :) If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate and review on your preferred listening platform! Join the community on Instagram at @runaway_eve. I'm always open to topic suggestions, ideas, and any other ways you want to collaborate.

In this episode, I give the younger generation dating advice and discuss the famous book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” To access the sources for this episode, visit: homeschoolerponderings.blogspot.com To get your copy of my latest book, visit: https://www.amazon.com/Deepen-Dance-Dependence-Prioritizing-Individualism/dp/B0892HX2H7/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=deepen+the+dance+of+dependence&qid=1595309176&sr=8-2 To become a subscriber of this podcast, visit: https://anchor.fm/seth-hensley/subscribe --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/seth-hensley/message

It started with I Kissed Dating Goodbye and went downhill from there. Ask anyone trying to date in their 30's and they'll tell you that yeah, what we taught about dating in youth group ended up with some pretty terrible results. This week we talk about why Christian dating is so stupid and how we can train the next generation to not be so awkward on the dating scene.Follow us on social:http://instagram.com/jonathan_caronehttp://instagram.com/ericw712https://www.tiktok.com/@jonathan_caronehttps://www.tiktok.com/@businesscoachericShow theme song: High School - 90's Kids See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Jenny McGrath is a licensed mental health counselor who does somatic psychotherapy and teaches movement. She offers online classes and courses that help individuals find their way back to their body. She is passionate about helping folks who grew up in fundamental Christianity work through deconstruction in a way that honors their faith and their body.  She is researching purity culture and Christian nationalism by focusing on the impact of purity culture on people's subjective experience as well as the social impacts of the movement. You can learn more about Jenny and her work at www.indwellmovement.comAbby Wong-Heffter grew up in the Pacific Northwest with a 1st generation Chinese father and a white mother. Her experience of evangelical church and Christian education had her often in the experience of being a minority and haunted with a feeling of being on the “outside.” Abby is passionate about freedom for people at the cross sections of sexual and spiritual abuse, race, and our longing to belong.  She currently teaches at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology as well as The Allender Center for Trauma and Abuse. Her primary work is offering psychotherapy where she specializes in the experience of transracial adopted adults, childhood sexual abuse survivors, and those addressing racial identity. She also supervises new clinicians in a narrative approach and consults and coaches organizations working toward liberation.Purity Culture. Salt-n-Pepa's "Let's Talk About Sex Baby!"Abby's Guilty Pleasure was John Mayer's Your Body's A Wonderland. Jenny says, Salt-n-Pepa were singing these songs about sex and sexuality in the middle of the AIDS crisis. It was so powerful. Danielle remembers being introduced to “secular music” like Missy Elliot and not being able to stop listening to it. She felt deeply connected. Abby says it was right and good for her to have a crush on an older married man because it was “Christian” – speaking of her Michael W Smith poster in her bedroom. Danielle asks who came up with this shit?Jenny said it was a conglomerate but one of the biggest contributors was the True Love Waits Campaign of 1993. A large group of youth gathered in Washington DC to put their “purity cards” staking in government land. This was the time of “purity rings” and “purity conferences.” Soon after the infamous book, “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” came out. All these things were happening within the first few years of the 1990s.Abby said it feels like it was built upon the work of James Dobson and Focus on the Family –There was a big push on families and for the Christian community to create manuals for “How to Raise Your Children Godly.” There were conversations about appropriate touching, and messaging around massages and dances leading to sex. Purity culture had a big platform to build off of. Focus on the Family was the foundation for the churches Danielle grew up, for how to view family.Jenny adds it was a very narrow, white heteronormative patriarchal view of family. James Dobson talked about how he didn't agree with interracial marriage because people were unequally yoked. There were other racists ideas propagated as well. Focus on the Family was always about focusing on the White Christian Patriarchal Heteronormative family. Danielle says looking back she can now see why I never felt at peace in any of these places. It feels less crazy-making; it was designed to be this way. Abby talks about the intersection of purity culture and race—she says converge in the vision that was cast of a knight in shining armor was saving the damsel in destress who was a Northern European female, pure and virginal. It was this place where the “holiness and goodness” of being chosen met the standard/ideal (of womanhood) that she could never fit as a woman of Asian ancestry. Because she could not change her ethnicity, she focused on what she could control: her purity, and being rigid with rules. Jenny hears in that the set up for continued/perpetuation of harm. The only access to power that Abby would have is by disempowering her own agency, her own body. It was taking any sense of choice and desire off the table. It stripped her of agency, voice and consent. Abby had proximity to the language around “the Jezebel,” though she didn't grow up with it. So where there could be any sense of power, even in being able to flirt, it had already been deemed bad. She could honestly not think of a worse word in the Christian culture to call a woman. Where young people are meant to learn to play, explore and rein in their sexuality, she would be made fun of for not doing it right or she would be called some form of “slut.” This is a place where we come into our power—learning how to bring ourselves sexually into the world. Jenny agrees. Sexuality is not compartmentalized—it is intertwined in how we show up in other areas of our lives. So the purity culture takes away freedom and curiosity. Jenny, as a white heteronormative woman did fit the ideal of “purity” [that Abby was talking about] and it led to a sense of needing to be dissociated. Whether it was flirting or enjoying a PG 13 movie, there was immediately shame for her. She felt she would have to spend hours journaling to purge her sin. The only thing that was safe was to be completely disconnected from sexuality, from eroticism, from life. All the things that are a part of being embodied beings.Danielle, having grown up as a child who's been traumatized sexually, she felt like she would always have to ask for forgiveness and she would never attain it. There was a sense of “will I ever get to heaven?” There was no framework for sexual trauma, abuse or harm. It was all lumped in the same boat of “purity.” At that point, you're always striving for something you know you can never get to. It was maddening and so she eventually gave up. Danielle said others would change themselves, through eating or exercise, to try to get rid of this thing that happened to me since they could never be pure?Abby said even the language is crazy-making. In Youth Group, or in her case she went to a Christian High School, there was “cute-sy” form of sex education – purity culture is married to false naivety that doesn't acknowledge that 1 out of 2 kids has been sexually abused. They treated kids like they have a lack of experience in the world as teenagers, and that there is some way to be pure now without having named/acknowledged what they've already been exposed to by this age. It required the kid to stay ignorant. Abby said that for Danielle it would be she would have to remain an outcast because she already knew something of this “thing” (sex) that is being talked about. Danielle said it is like already knowing the end of the story, and know more than your teacher. You're not supposed to know, and they know that you're not supposed to know. Danielle says it makes you feel trapped or chained, binding to the sources of additional harm. Abby says “damning” is the word that comes to mind. Jenny says it's very normative categories of gender. This was the message that so many folks who were socialized as “girl experience” heard. The people who were socialized as male were told “you are going to perpetrate harm, you are not in control of your sexuality.” The sense was that “he” feels so threatening. There is an entire sector of people in-between these who don't have language and are not seen. Non-binary and gender fluid received no teaching about what it means to live in a body that doesn't fit in these very binary categories of gender.  Abby was listening to something on the radio recently about the set up for the gay and queer community in the 1980s. This experience of “I only have these two options” bumps up against so many areas of injustice where purity culture is part of oppression. Of course, oppression creates more oppression for people who are already oppressed. Purity culture gives a false sense of being able to accomplish something and gain power. It wouldn't have been as intoxicating if it weren't for the sense that you could be more powerful if you were “pure.” There are so many people who couldn't actually get there, and even more so for non-binary, trans and queer folks. For them, sitting and listening to lectures and sermons on what it means to “pure” there would be an immediate sense that there is nothing they can do here, outside of being a eunuch. Words are weaponized so we know where to stay to be right and good. Danielle said it was often a white male pastor that was preaching this message to young teens. When you dig into some of the leaders' stories, they never held themselves to this standard. The same is true with your parents, it's not what they held themselves to, even coming out of the same faith tradition. So it's almost like these white leaders were able to reenact their own kingdoms, to maintain their own power in their churches and youth groups like mini power centers. You can gain a lot of control over diverse groups in that scenario. Jenny said this reminds her what Danielle was saying earlier: If you're told that you're going to be like chewed up gum, and that you're only value isn't valuable if you have sex or any sexual experience at all, then when you're a survivor of sexual abuse you're not going to tell anyone or go to anyone because in that world it means you're “spoiled.” Rather than giving someone full language around their sexual abuse and telling them that it doesn't take away their value, dignity or worth nor it is a reflection doing something wrong. This idea of spoiling something pure really perpetuates the system, enabling abuse and preying on victims because perpetrators know that victims have nowhere to go to have nuanced caring conversations in that world. Abby says Jenny is speaking to how the purity culture has created a foundation for exploitation. One level of vulnerability to this system is anyone who has felt a sense of not belonging, a sense of orphan-ness, that there was no one there to attune to you, the purity movement would feel compelling because it provides a sense of being contained and parented inside a set of norms and rules. Another level would be to add in places of race, gender, sexual orientation or neurodivergence, all the places where there is marginalization and sexual abuse. Abby has heard again and again in her work of people being betrayed by the purity culture. For instance someone who is “saving themselves” (to have sexual intercourse until they are married) is vulnerable to someone who is in the know of that language. There is a sense of grooming, saying to them, “I'm going to help you become pure.” This is a normal way that predators work within the vocabulary of purity culture. If you want to sexually exploit people, the purity culture is a prime place to find vulnerable people.  Jenny says purity culture, Focus on the Family, James Dobson … they are all part of the system of the Christian Right. She says there is often a myth that it is because of abortion that the religious right exists. However, it was actually in the 1970s when Bob Jones University was going to lose their tax-exempt status because they were discriminating students of color. This was the reason Jerry Falwell and the Religious Right formed in order to fight against what they were calling Religious Freedom in the name of discrimination. From it's very origin, it was a system to uphold racism in the name of Christianity. Jenny believes the Purity Culture was just another reiteration of the same thing, gaining power towards the larger Christian Nationalism movement.  Danielle read Kristin Kobes Du Mez' “Jesus and John Wayne” so she knows the information but hearing it again it shuts her down. “It's staggering that there have been reiterations of this since the first invasion into this land that we're calling the United States. Where sex and race has been married to religion” not faith. She's stuck by the need to continually reinvent this in order to maintain power. In 2022 we're dealing with the aftereffects and it's still circulating in churches and communities today. The legacy of harm has continued and how hard it is to break out of this system. Abby said it reminds her of how distorted Jesus gets as the Religious Right is committed to policing bodies. Purity Culture is a way for our bodies to be policed. In her understanding of reading the Gospels, this is so opposite of who Jesus was. Abby thinks this has been a way to gain power for a particular group of people. Danielle said it wouldn't be reinvented if it wasn't working. Abby adds, exactly. Danielle jokes, “come to our workshop.” Danielle says this is why we continue to talk about it. Abby wonders how many years each of them have spent to detox from this message that was so thorough. As people who are working actively for the liberation of others, they too are still having to seek their own therapy, go on yoga retreats… to keep enforcing the goodness of their bodies, desire and arousal. Especially in raising teenagers, Abby says she can feel the ghost of purity culture that she has to constantly fight. Jenny says that is what makes it so insidious and powerful, when you're hearing all the messages from when you're a child. If you question them your eternity is hanging in the balance. It's an ingrained fear of hell, punishment and eternal damnation as well as the fear mongering that happens around what could happen if you have sex outside of marriage or outside of these heteronormative categories. There is so much fear that is takes literal years to work out all the implicit messages. Even if Jenny's head believes something, often times her body responds totally differently. Danielle agrees. Even with all the ups and downs of her relationship with her partner they are still working things out, with things like talking through who does the finances. When they were first together they came in with a set of norms and expectations. She said to him, you have to do the finances because you're the man. He was like okay. But it didn't work for them. Not because he wasn't capable, he just didn't like doing it. One day he said to her, this is nowhere in the Bible! And he was right. And she asked who told them this?! Danielle thinks of all the little things that she and her husband Luis are constantly renegotiating to find out what's in the Bible and ask why they feel terror if they do things a way that is different from their formative faith tradition. Our bodies are trying to constrict and they're not meant to.  Abby asks Jenny if she has come across where the purity culture meets the post-WWII white picket fence and standard gender roles; what a good woman is? What are her duties? Where is the women confided to? Because it does feel connected to Purity Culture. Jenny says the more she has researched, the farther back she's had to go in time. She's looked at the creation of the Bourgeoisie Woman and Pre-US history, the idea of this White European woman. The first US colony was Virginia because the queen was supposedly a virgin. There is the hyper-emphasis on white woman's virginity while we know settler colonial men were raping and abusing indigenous women all throughout the Americas. The justification for raping Indigenous or enslaved African Women was that they were Jezebels and that you couldn't rape someone who always wanted to have sex. This justification was both for harming women of color and creating a distinction what is “proper.” Jenny believe that white women are very much complicit in this through the disembodiment and disavowal of agency, autonomy and sexuality that perpetuations these tropes and gender and racial norms. These racial and gender norms got more infused after WWII when the GI Bill expanded what white meant. Before the GI Bill, Polish and Irish were not “white.” Once “white” expanded, Jenny explains, this is when norms were created around what a white woman should look like, act, do, etc. This is where skirts and casseroles and all these ideas of what being a white woman meant. It was meant to separate white women from women of color who were not able to get the same kinds of home loans through the GI Bill because of redlining, thus continuing (and widening!) the disparity.  Abby says listening to Jenny talk about this history brings to her mind what happened last April in Atlanta with the shoot of 6 Asian Women by a man who claimed that purity culture is what forced him to become mentally ill and justified him acting out in violence. Here again, Abby says, is the convergence of race and purity culture. Here, Asian women are seen as both meek, submissive and demure as well as wild tigers. It is propagating this idea that what women of color offer sexually is different than what white woman offer. Danielle adds, and access. That the body of a woman of color is quick, not literally physically all the time but at least mentally to go there it's “quick” and built-in permission to do that. It makes Jenny think of this “protect the family” at the same time, the government is forcibly removing Indigenous children from their mothers and putting them in foster care system. Missing and murdered Indigenous Women, Anti-Asian hate crimes, crimes against all bodies of color and the LGBTQ community are not protected under the guise of “for the family,” “keeping families together.”Danielle says we saw that in Atlanta: it wasn't only the legal system that let him walk off the scene without being killed. There was also the silence across religious and faith circles. Abby said that when people heard why he justified the killings they felt bad for him, offered him sympathy, “oh he's struggling with a sex addiction…” “I'm going to go on a little patriarchal rant…” Abby said she is not suggesting that the purity culture didn't wreak havoc on the male body, however even when we go back to our youth groups, there's a sense that women are to feel bad about something that is out of control in men, and that makes us as women dangerous. In the Atlanta shootings there was a sheriff that made excuses for the shooter, and this didn't surprise Abby because it comes from the same vein of making excuses for white men doing violence and acting out sexually. Danielle said she's had that same thought (about justifying and excusing white men's behavior) when a youth pastor shares about an on-going struggle with pornography and there was never the impression that they were in danger of not going to heaven. In fact, it seemed like it was kind of expected they would struggle in this way; 1 in 3 pastor's struggles with porn because they're so focused on being pure; they are tempted so much. This has led to permission to not only continue with this behavior but Danielle says it has led to violence and murders, like these shooting in Atlanta. “It's like a blank check.”Because, Danielle adds, if a woman of color walked into a porn shop and shoots seven white men, she would not get out of that alive. “No way” Abby chimes in.Danielle says we have examples of that, a case of that actively in Texas—a woman of color is in jail for murdering her trafficker. She's 17 and has life in prison. https://people.com/crime/zephaniah-trevino-case-texas-teen-accused-murder-says-she-was-sex-trafficking-victim/

This is part 2 of a series on sexuality and the church; if you haven't listened to part 1, we highly encourage you to do so before starting this one up. Also, we will be direct and open in this conversation... if you're listening with children present maybe leave this one in the que for now. Did you ever read books like Josh Harris' I Kissed Dating Goodbye? Did anyone ever give you a purity ring when you were in high school? In this segment, we will be examining the purity culture that emerged within the Church years ago, its lasting impact on people who grew up in it, and possible next steps in discovering a more positive sexual identity.

Greg and RD investigate “Purity Culture” and its effects on the lives of Christians in the past and present. Greg mentions a previous episode on the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast. Greg and RD discuss Joshua Harris's appearance on the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill as well as his controversial book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye.Greg and RD reference the book “Every Man's Battle”   Greg of course references Romans 3:23 - 26   You can find Fellowship Church's position papers here. For more information on this podcast, visit podcast.fellowshipknox.org  You can also e-mail questions or topic ideas to offstage@fellowshipknox.org

Recently, The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill (a Christianity Today podcast that looks into why Mars Hill church met such a quick demise) released a bonus episode. In the episode, host Mike Cosper spent time looking at how Mars Hill's pastor, Mark Driscoll, and Joshua Harris, the I Kissed Dating Goodbye author and former Sovereign Grace Ministries prodigy, had many similarities, despite having wildly different personalities. But then, because Harris no longer identifies as Christian and considers himself to be “deconstructing,” Cosper spends the final 20 minutes talking about deconstruction. So Melanie asked Katherine Spearing of Uncertain Podcast and Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals to join her in analyzing his points and examining why evangelicals and ex-evangelicals are having polar opposite reactions to it.Follow Katherine on Instagram (@UncertainPodcast) and on Facebook (Tears of Eden).Follow Tim on Instagram (@TheNewEvangelicals) and Twitter (@NewVangelicals).If you enjoyed this bonus conversation or any other episodes, please consider leaving us a rating and a review

“We eroticize our pain to make sense of it. We sexualize our brokenness.” - Andrew BaumanOn this edition of Restoring the Soul, Michael welcomes Andrew Bauman, author of The Sexually Healthy Man. Now, you may have grown up in the 90's during the height of the True Love Waits movement, accompanied by Joshua Harris' bestseller, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. Many of the ideas perpetuated by this culture were infused with fear and shame, offering no practical help or guidance in equipping young people to become healthy sexual human beings. As a result, shame accompanied any thoughts around sexuality; with guys trying to white-knuckle purity and falling short over and over again. Leaving them with feelings of self-hatred and hopelessness. Andrew hopes his brand new book will serve as the guide - providing comfort and clarity to those who find themselves in a similar struggle for sexual health. The essays in the book are not only for men but also for women who want to understand what healthy sexuality can look like in a partner. Speaking of women, you may remember Andrew's wife Christy as she was a guest on a September 2020 podcast called The Theology of the Womb. Definitely something worth checking out.Andrew has graciously provided us 2 copies copy of The Sexually Healthy Man that we'll send to a randomly selected listeners. All you need to do to qualify is log into Apple Podcasts and write a review of Restoring the Soul. Be sure to listen to next week's podcast for an update on the winners.In this podcast, we hope you will discover:How to engage with honor instead of objectification.For us to become whole, for us to become sexually healthy, we need to become embodied.What we believe is not what we say. What we believe is how we live.You cannot look at pornography and be an authentic man at the same time.

Last week on the podcast we shared with you the most-viewed BreakPoint commentaries of 2019. Today, we will replay the most listened to and downloaded BreakPoint podcast of last year. Interestingly enough, it was about purity culture. Specifically, about Josh Harris, author of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” renouncing not only his teaching sexual purity, but also his faith in Christ. John Stonestreet and I discussed the social media frenzy over this sad development—especially the backlash against the so-called purity culture. Was this backlash is really anti-purity culture, or simply a repudiation of Christian sexual morality?   Resources:   Colson Center Short Course: A Christian Response to Tough IssuesRegister today! From Apology to Apostasy: Joshua Harris Joins His CriticsG. Shane Morris, Troubler of Israel Blog, July 29, 2019 Against Evangelical Victim Culture (Stop Blaming Josh Harris for Your Problems)G. Shane Morris, Troubler of Israel Blog, September 13, 2016