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Rounding Up Season 2 | Episode 1 – Practical Ways to Build Strengths-based Math Classrooms Guest: Beth Kobett Mike Wallus: What if it were possible to capture all of the words teachers said or thought about students and put them in word clouds that hovered over each student throughout the day? What impact might the words in the clouds have on students' learning experience? This is the question that Beth Kobett and Karen Karp pose to start their book about strengths-based teaching and learning. Today on the podcast, we're talking about practices that support strengths-based teaching and learning and ways educators can implement them in their classrooms.  Mike: Hey, Beth, welcome to the podcast. Beth Kobett: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here, Mike. Mike: So, there's a paragraph at the start of the book that you wrote with Karen Karp. You said: ‘As teachers of mathematics, we've been taught that our role is to diagnose, eradicate, and erase students' misconceptions. We've been taught to focus on the challenges in students' work rather than recognizing the knowledge and expertise that exist within the learner.' This really stopped me in my tracks, and it had me thinking about how I viewed my role as a classroom teacher and how I saw my students' work. I think I just want to start with the question, ‘Why start there, Beth?' Beth: Well, I think it has a lot to do with our identity as teachers, that we are fixers and changers and that students come to us, and we have to do something. And we have to change them and make sure that they learn a body of knowledge, which is absolutely important. But within that, if we dig a little bit deeper, is this notion of fixing this idea that, ‘Oh my goodness, they don't know this.' And we have to really attend to the ways in which we talk about it, right? For example, ‘My students aren't ready. My students don't know this.' And what we began noticing was all this deficit language for what was really very normal. When you show up in second grade, guess what? There's lots of things you know, and lots of things you're going to learn. And that's absolutely the job of a teacher and a student to navigate. So, that really helped us think about the ways in which we were entering into conversations with all kinds of people; teachers, families, leadership, and so on, so that we could attend to that. And it would help us think about our teaching in different ways. Mike: So, let's help listeners build a counter-narrative. How would you describe what it means to take a strengths-based approach to teaching and learning? And what might that mean in someone's daily practice? Beth: So, we can look at it globally or instructionally. Like, I'm getting ready to teach this particular lesson in this class. And the counter-narrative is, ‘What do they know? What have they been showing me?' So, for example, I'm getting ready to teach place value to second-graders, and I want to think about all the things that they've already done that I know that they've done. They've been grouping and counting and probably making lots of collections of 10 and so on. And so, I want to think about drawing on their experiences, A. Or B, going in and providing an experience that will reactivate all those prior experiences that they've had and enable students to say, ‘Oh yeah, I've done this before. I've made sets or groups of 10 before.' So, let's talk about what that is, what the names of it, why it's so important, and let's identify tasks that will just really engage them in ways that help them understand that they do bring a lot of knowledge into it. And sometimes we say things so well intentioned, like, ‘This is going to be hard, and you probably haven't thought about this yet.' And so, we sort of set everybody on edge in ways that set it's going to be hard, which means, ‘That's bad.' It's going to be hard, which means, ‘You don't know this yet.' Well, why don't we turn that on its edge and say, ‘You've done lots of things that are going to help you understand this and make sense of this. And that's what our job is right now, is to make sense of what we're doing.' Mike: There's a lot there. One of the things that I think is jumping out for me is this idea is multifaceted. And part of what we're asking ourselves is, ‘What do kids know?' But the other piece that I want to just kind of shine a flashlight on, is there's also this idea of what experiences have they had—either in their home life or in their learning life at school—that can connect to this content or these ideas that you're trying to pull out? That, to me, actually feels like another way to think about this. Like, ‘Oh my gosh, we've done partitioning, we've done grouping,' and all of those experiences. If we can connect back to them, it can actually build up a kid's sense of, like, ‘Oh, OK.' Beth: I love that. And I love the way that you just described that. It's almost like positioning the student to make those connections, to be ready to do that, to be thinking about that and providing a task or a lesson that allows them to say, ‘Oh!' You know, fractions are a perfect example. I mean, we all love to use food, but do we talk about sharing? Do we talk about when we've divided something up? Have we talked about, ‘Hey, you both have to use the same piece of paper, and I need to make sure that you each have an equal space.' I've seen that many times in a classroom. Just tweak that a little bit. Talk about when you did that, you actually were thinking about equal parts. So, helping students … we don't need to make all those connections all the time because they're there for students and children naturally make connections. That's their job ( chuckles ). It really is their job, and they want to do that. Mike: So, the other bit that I want to pick up on is the subtle way that language plays into this. And one example that really stood out for me was when you examined the word ‘misconception.' So, talk about this particular bit of language and how you might tweak it or reframe it when it comes to student learning. Beth: Well, thank you for bringing this up. This is a conversation that I am having consistently right now. Because this idea of misconception positions the student. ‘You're wrong, you don't understand something.' And again, let's go back to that again, ‘I've got to fix it.' But what if learning is pretty natural and normal to, for example, think about Piaget's conservation ideas, the idea that a young child can or can't conserve based on how the arrangement. So, you put in a, you know, five counters out, they count them and then you move them, spread them out and say, ‘Are they the same, more or less?' We wouldn't say that that's a misconception of a child because it's developmental. It's where they are in their trajectory of learning. And so, we are using the word misconception for lots of things that are just natural, the natural part of learning. And we're assuming that the student has created a misunderstanding along the way when that misunderstanding or that that idea of that learning is very, very normal. Beth: Place value is a perfect example of it. Fractions are, too. Let's say they're trying to order fractions on a number line, and they're just looking at the largest value wherever it falls, numerator, denominator, I'm just throwing it down. You know, those are big numbers. So, those are going to go at the end of a number line. But what if we said, ‘Just get some fraction pieces out'? That's not a misconception 'cause that's normal. I'm using what I've already learned about value of number, and I'm throwing it down on a number line ( chuckles ). Um, so it changes the way we think about how we're going to design our instruction when we think about what's the natural way that students do that. So, we also call it fragile understanding. So, fragile understanding is when it's a little bit tentative. Like, ‘I have it, but I don't have it.' That's another part, a natural part of learning. When you're first learning something new, you kind of have it, then you've got to try it again, and it takes a while for it to become something you're comfortable doing or knowing. Mike: So, this is fascinating because you're making me think about this, kind of, challenge that we sometimes find ourselves facing in the field where, at the end of a lesson or a unit, there's this idea that if kids don't have what we would consider mastery, then there's a deficit that exists. And I think what you're making me think is that framing this as either developing understanding or fragile understanding is a lot more productive in that it helps us imagine what pieces have students started to understand and where might we go next? Or like, what might we build on that they've started to understand as opposed to just seeing partial understanding or fragile understanding from a deficit perspective. Beth: Right. I love this point because I think when we think about mastery, it's all or nothing. But that's not learning either. Maybe on an exam or on a test or on assessment, yes, you have it or you don't have it. You've mastered or you haven't. But again, if we looked at it developmentally that ‘I have some partial understanding or I have it and … I'm inconsistent in that,' that's OK. I could also think, ‘Well, should I have a task that will keep bringing this up for students so that they can continue to build that rich understanding and move along the trajectory toward what we think of as mastery, which means that I know it now, and I'm never going to have to learn it again?' I don't know that all things we call mastery are actually mastered at that time. We say they are. Mike: So, I want to pick up on what you said here because in the book there's something about the role of tasks in strengths-based teaching and learning. And specifically, you talk about ‘the cumulative impact that day-to-day tasks have on what students think mathematics is and how hard and how long they should have to work on ideas so that they make sense.' That kind of blows me away. Beth: Well, I want to know more about why it blows you away. Mike: It blows me away because there's two pieces of the language. One is that the cumulative impact has an effect on what students actually think mathematics is. And I think there's a lot there that I would love to hear you talk about. And then also this second part, it has a cumulative impact on how hard and how long kids believe that they should have to work on ideas in order to have them be sensible. Beth: OK, thank you so much for talking about that a little bit more. So, there's two ways to think about that. One is, and I've done this with teams of teachers, and that's bring in a week's worth of tasks that you designed and taught for two weeks. And I call this a ‘task autopsy.' It's a really good way because you've done it. So, bring it in and then let's talk about, do you have mostly conceptual ideas? How much time do students get to think about it? Or are students mimicking a procedure or even a solution strategy that you want them to use or a model? Because if most of the time students are mimicking or repeating or modeling in the way that you've asked them, then they're not necessarily reasoning. And they're building this idea that math means that ‘You tell me what I'm supposed to do, I do it, yay, I did it.' And then we move on to the next thing.  Beth: And I think that sometimes we have to really do some self-talk about this. I show what I value and what I believe in those decisions that I'm making on a daily basis. And even if I say, ‘It's so important for you to reason, it's so important for you to make sense of it.' If all the tasks are, ‘You do this and repeat what I've shown you,' then students are going to take away from that, that's what math is. And we know this because we ask students, ‘What is math?' Math is, ‘When the teacher shows me what to do, and I do it, and I make my teacher happy.' And they say lots of things about teacher pleasing because they want to do what they've been asked to d,o and they want to repeat it and they want to do well, right? Or do they say, ‘Yeah, it's problem-solving. It's solving a problem, it's thinking hard. Sometimes my brain hurts. I talk to other students about what I'm solving. We share our ideas.' We know that students come away with big impressions about what math means based on the daily work of the math class. Mike: So, I want to take the second part up now because you also talk about what I would call ‘normalizing productive struggle' for kids when they're engaged in problems. What does that mean and what might it sound like for an educator on a day-to-day basis? Beth: So, I happened to be in a classroom yesterday. It was a fifth-grade classroom, and the teacher has been really working on normalizing productive struggle. And it was fabulous. I just happened to stop in, and she stopped everything to say, ‘We want to have this conversation in front of you.' And I said, ‘All right, go for it.' And the question was, ‘What does productive struggle feel like to you and why is it important?' That's what she asked her fifth-graders. And they said, ‘It feels hard at first. And uh, amazing at the end of it. Like, you can't feel amazing unless you've had productive struggle.' We're taking away that opportunity to feel so joyous about the mathematics that we're learning because we got to the other side. And some of the students said, ‘It doesn't feel so good in the beginning, but I know I have to remember what it's going to feel like if I keep going.' I was blown away. I mean, they were like little adults in there having this really thoughtful conversation. And I asked her what … she said, ‘We have to stop and have this conversation a lot. We need to acknowledge what it feels like because we're kind of conditioned when we don't feel good that somebody needs to fix it.' Mike: Yeah, I think what hits me is there's kind of multiple layers we consider as a practitioner. One layer is, do I actually believe in productive struggle? And then part two is, what does that look like, sound like? And I think what I heard from you is, part of it is asking kids to engage with you in thinking about productive struggle, that giving them the opportunity to voice it and think about it is part of normalizing it. Beth: It's also saying, ‘You might be feeling this way right now. If you're feeling like this,' like for example, teaching a task and students are working on a task trying to figure out how to solve it and, and it's starting to get a little noisy and hands start coming up, stopping the class for a second and saying, ‘If you're feeling this way, that's an OK way to feel,' right? ‘And here's some things we might be thinking about. What are some strategies'—like re-sort-of focusing them on how to get out of that instead of me fixing it—like, ‘What are some strategies you could think about? Let's talk about that and then go back to this.' So, it's the teacher acknowledging. It's allowing the students to talk about it. It's allowing everybody … it's not just making students be in productive struggle, or another piece of that is ‘just try harder.' That's not real helpful.  Like, OK, ‘I just need you to try harder because I'm making you productively struggle.' I don't know if anyone has had someone tell them that, but I used to run races and when someone said, ‘Try harder' to me, I'm like, ‘I'm trying as hard as I can.' That isn't that helpful. So, it's really about being very explicit about why it's important. Getting students to the other side of it should be the No. 1 goal. And then addressing it. ‘OK, you experienced productive struggle, now you did it. How do you feel now? Why is it worth it?' Mike: I think what you're talking about feels like things that educators can put into practice really clearly, right? So, there's the fron- end conversation maybe about normalizing. But there's the backend conversation where you come back to kids and say, ‘How do you feel once this has happened? It feels amazing.' This is why productive struggle is so important because you can't get to this amazingness unless you're actually engaged in this challenge, unless it feels hard on the front end. And helping them kind of recalibrate what the experience is going to feel like. Beth: Exactly. And another example of this is this idea of … so I had a pre-service teacher teaching a task. She got to teach it twice. She taught it in the morning. Students experienced struggle and were puffed up and running around, so engaged when they solved it. Beyond proud. ‘Can we get the principal in here? Who needs to see this, that we did this?' And then she got some feedback to reduce the level of productive struggle for the second class based on expectations about the students. And she said the engagement, everything went down. Everything went down, including the level of productive struggle went way down. And so, the excitement and joy went way down, too. And so, she did her little mini-research experiment there. Mike: So, I want to stay on this topic of what it looks like to enact these practices. And there are a couple practices in the book that really jumped out at me that I'd like to just take one at a time. So, I want to start with this idea of giving kids what you would call a ‘walk-back option.' What's a walk-back option? Beth: So, a walk-back option is this opportunity once you've had this conversation—or maybe one-on-one, or it could be class conversation—and a walk-back option is to go look at your work. Is there something else that you'd like to change about it? One of the things that we want to be thinking about in mathematics is that solutions and pathways and models and strategies are all sort of in flux. They're there, but they're not all finished all the time. And after having some conversation or time to reason, is there something that you'd like to think about changing? And really building in some of that mathematical reflection. Mike: I love that. I want to shift and talk about this next piece, too, which is ‘rough-draft thinking.' So, the language feels really powerful, but I want to get your take on, what does that mean and how might a teacher use the idea of rough-draft thinking in a classroom? Beth: So rough-draft thinking is really Mandy Jansen's work that we brought into the strengths work because we saw it as an opportunity to help lift up the strengths that students are exhibiting during rough-draft thinking. So, rough-draft thinking is this idea that most of the time ( chuckles ), our conversations in math as we're thinking through a process is rough, right? We're not sure. We might be making a conjecture here and there. We want to test an idea. So, it's rough, it's not finished and complete. And we want to be able to give students an opportunity to do that talking, that thinking and that reasoning while it is rough, because it builds reasoning, it builds opportunities for students to make those amazing connections. You know, just imagine you're thinking through something, and it clicks for you. That's what we want students to be able to do. So, that's rough-draft thinking and that's what it looks like in the math classroom. It's just lots of student talk and lots of students acknowledging that ‘I don't know if I have this right yet, but here's what I'm thinking. Or I have an idea, can I share this idea?' I watched a pre-service teacher do a number talk and a student said, ‘I don't know if this is going to work all the time, but can I share my idea?' Yes, that's rough-draft thinking. ‘Let's hear it. And wow, how brave of you and your strength and risk-taking. Uh, come over here and share it with us.' Mike: Part of what I'm attracted to is even using that language in a classroom with kids, to some degree it reduces the stakes that we traditionally associate with sharing your thinking in mathematics. And it normalizes this idea that you just described, which is, like, reasoning is in flux, and this is my reasoning at this point in time. That just feels like it really changes the game for kids. Beth: What you hear is very authentic thinking and very real thinking. And it's amazing because even very young children—young children are very at doing this. But then as you move, students start to feel like their thinking has to be polished before it's shared. And then that gives other students who may be on some other developmental trajectory in their understanding, so much more afraid to share their rough-draft thinking or their thoughts or their ideas because they think it has to be at the polished stage. It's very interesting how this sort of idea has developed that you can't share something that you think in math because it's got to be right and completed. And everything's got to be perfect. And before it gets shared, because, ‘Wait, we might confuse other people.' But students respond really beautifully to this. Mike: So, the last strategy that I want to highlight is this one of a ‘math amendment.' I love the language again. So same question, how does this work? What does it look like? Beth: OK, so how it works is that you have done some sharing in the class. So, for example, you may have already shared some solutions to a task. Students have been given a task they're sharing, they may be sharing a pair-to-pair share or a group-to-group share, something like that. It could be whole class sharing. And then you say, ‘Hmm, you've heard lots of good ideas today, lots of interesting thinking and different strategies. If you'd like to provide a math amendment, which is a change to your solution in addition, something else that you'd like to do to strengthen it, you can go ahead and do that and you can do it in that lesson right there.' Or what's really, what we're finding is really powerful, is to bring it back the next day or even a few days later, which connects us back to this idea of what you were saying, which is, ‘Is this mastered? Where am I on the developmental trajectory?' So, I'm just strengthening my understanding, and I'm also hearing … I'm understanding the point of hearing other people's ideas is to go and try them out and use them. And we're really allowing that. So, this is take, this has been amazing, the math amendments that we're seeing students do, taking someone else's idea or a strategy and then just expanding on their own work. And it's very similar to, like, a writing piece, right? Writing. You get a writing piece and you polish and you polish. You don't do this with every math task that you solve or problem that you solve, but you choose and select to do that. Mike: Totally makes sense. So, before we go, I have the question for you. You know, for me this was a new idea. And I have to confess that it has caused me to do a lot of reflection on language that I used when I was in the classroom. I can look back now and say there are some things that I think really aligned well with thinking about kids' assets. And I can also say there are points where, gosh, I wish I could wind the clock back because there are some practices that I would do differently. I suspect there's probably a lot of people where this is a new idea that we're talking about today. What are some of the resources that you'd recommend to folks who want to keep learning about strengths-based or asset-based teaching and learning? Beth: So, if they're interested, there's several … so strengths-based or asset-based is really the first step in building equity. And TODOS, they use the asset-based thinking, which is mathematics for all organization. And it's a wonderful organization that does have an equity tool that would be really helpful. Mike: Beth, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for joining us.  Beth: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It was a good time. Mike: This podcast is brought to you by The Math Learning Center and the Maier Math Foundation, dedicated to inspiring and enabling individuals to discover and develop their mathematical confidence and ability. © 2023 The Math Learning Center | www.mathlearningcenter.org

Market Proof Marketing · Ep 300: Good Content Looks EffortlessIn this episode, Kevin Oakly, Andrew Peek and Julie Jarnagin are joined by a surprise guest, Karla Tuten! The team celebrates the 300th episode by keeping it casual. Karla gives a deep dive into visual marketing and offers tips for builder content, especially for those who don't know where to start. They discuss the challenges of creating good content that contains real facts, real data and is packaged well graphically. Good content looks effortless, but takes a lot of effort. Story Time (05:58)Andrew is worn out from the Market Proof Academy and, once again, wishes for one more day.Julie's mom is trying to buy a car but feels like the car salesmen should be trying harder to sell their cars to her. No one is following up or reaching out. Kevin says creating stuff is tough sometimes.News (35:55)Mortgage rates could hit 8%, economists say, citing a worrying sign not seen since the Great Recession (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mortgage-rates-could-hit-8-economists-say-citing-a-worrying-sign-not-seen-since-the-great-recession-edf2b4a4)Don't Discount the Merits of a Friction-full Transaction (https://crystal.geekestate.com/dont-discount-the-merits-of-a-friction-full-transaction-newsletter-263/)China Evergrande, Giant Real Estate Firm, Files for U.S. Bankruptcy (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/business/china-evergrande-bankruptcy.html)First-time homeownership surges: Half of all home buyers are making their first purchase (https://zillow.mediaroom.com/2023-08-23-First-time-homeownership-surges-Half-of-all-home-buyers-are-making-their-first-purchase)Favorites/Hates (53:27)Andrew is hating his boom stand because it keeps sliding downJulie is loving "Homework Helpers" for help on her sons homework.Kevin is enjoying his app "Sunshine Birthdays"Check out Kevin's NAHB Webinar on Navigating the 5 Phases of a Market Correction! Questions? Comments? Email show@doyouconvert.com or call 404-369-2595 and we'll address them on the next episode. More insights, discussions, and opportunities can be found at Do You Convert All Access or on the Market Proof Marketing Facebook group.Subscribe on iTunesFollow on SpotifyListen On StitcherA weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We're here to help you – not to sell you!Transcript:I'm just starting this slide, this misunderstanding, disagreement. I don't know what it is, but Andrew says, and I don't. You don't want to make anyone mad. Labor Day isn't his favorite holiday, but it's.AndrewBecause I have nothing against it.Kevinis it because its a Holiday or because there's...?AndrewNo no, I think there's other holidays I need to list before it. I guess I'm getting called out here a list of like I think there's other shut everything down worthy holidays that are not fully shut down for everyone. It's like that's a bank holiday only. I'm like, well, that should.KevinBe arguing for more days off generally.AndrewRight? Like, that's like a mixed day. Like sometimes it's like, are banks closed? Not closed. I don't know. Schools are still and sometimes that one should just be Everything's done. I'll swap Labor Day for him. Okay. If we're to pick like, all right, there's eight holidays where everything's shut down. Christmas, July 4th, Memorial Day, whatever the other ones are.AndrewThanksgiving.KevinI figured it was just because, like, something that the weather in Florida wasn't working. Oh, it's still hot.AndrewAnd we just started school, like, three weeks ago, so it's like a month in a school. So it's like, do we need a holiday?JulieI don't know. Yeah, like something.AndrewLate September.JulieThat end of summer real. I mean, that's how some people think of it, right? Like the polls close on Labor Day. But here too, it's still so hot.AndrewYeah. Mhm. I think so.KevinI just we had a we had a little typhoon here in Columbus, Ohio.AndrewOh.KevinLast night I kind of felt like what, Because, you know, Julia lives in Louisiana.AndrewShe gets it all.AndrewI have pretend hurricanes.KevinBut there's this thing called a heat dome. How is it that every like three years they come up with some new term.AndrewThey get me the clicks, heat dome. I like it. And we Google that there.KevinThere's a heat dome over over the Midwest and not the edge of the heat dome if you turn on the radar. And it was just this weird. It looked like just someone poured water out of a pitcher and it was just rolling straight from the corner of Michigan, straight down central Ohio. And it just kept coming. And it was like 7 hours of lightning, strong wind and just a ton of rain.JulieOh, wild.KevinLike, do I have to move? I mean, I Anyway, it was a good time.AndrewI just Google it. Yeah. Interesting. AP all about this. Hmm. And pumpkin spice lattes just came out today. It's related to the heat dome.KevinWe had this conversation on one episode. Yeah, there's a new pumpkin drink. What is it? It's another cold drink called chai something pumpkin. So now you have three pumpkin options at Starbucks.AndrewThat's a lot.JulieYeah. I don't do the pumpkin drinks.AndrewThat's a lot of, like, pumpkin pie, spice, flavors all in one.KevinThis is to my favorite section, but ever since I got to spin coffee machine, I just don't. I do not desire Starbucks or like coffee out in the same way.AndrewDo you like iced coffees? I feel like you can't beat iced from Starbucks any like I have not been. You can.KevinDo it. You can do cold brew. You can do nitro drip cold, whatever. Like it just says put ice in your cup and it cleans out the hot water. Puts in cold water.AndrewYeah, we're all gonna all.JulieBe inside out. And Olivia said she's literally drinking the pumpkin chai right now. So she's like, Oh, there you go, pumpkin chai on trend.KevinIs it good? I feel like it would be because chai is kind of a.AndrewI like chai. Yeah, 30 Chai. If I've had that chai with the espresso, it's amazing. We hear it's amazing. Like The Wizard of Oz back there helping to steal that.KevinMy favorite from my time in Nepal is Milk Coffee, which is, I think goat milk. Oh, no water and instant like instant crystals.AndrewWeird. Sounds like it's like that.KevinAnd they're not the best milk coffee. Experience my life. All right, let's get started.AndrewThere's the goat. Yep.KevinWell, welcome to episode 300. I'm Kevin Oakley. And with me today is Andrew Peek and Julie's aunt again.JulieMe? Oh.AndrewWho knew we'd be doing this 300 episodes later?JulieThat's impressive. That's crazy exciting. I have.KevinI thought we make this our last one. Let's just end it right. Fine.AndrewI'm fine with that grand.KevinValley.AndrewThree. I want to be something new.JulieThat's on market this year to make it really good, though, so.KevinOh, you know what we should do? Because this is what cracks me up when people do like season six episode one, it's like, just start. Like, I don't know why there's so much conscious thought put into that, but we should just. How about season two begins with a sincere one. We'll start with the season two episode one. Let's just start over because it's going to get obnoxious when we get to, you know, we got to figure out something else, Olivia Because when we get to episode 1200, it's just, it's too many things to say.AndrewYeah, we can have different.KevinEpisode 1234.AndrewThousand. It's now 2028 time right now. Oh, gosh, that's a long time.KevinOh, man. So the other thing that we're just going to keep talking about her like she's here with us, our producer, Olivia, is like, you know, we really do need to do live episodes of the podcast. So, okay, I think we decided on once a quarter, she's checking the calendar, but we will you'll hear about it that way.KevinYou can all join in, ask your questions, but they'll be fun. Fun time. Yeah. Maybe we can maybe pull people in for live Q&A or some live storytime we'd have to have like the voice and the voice.AndrewChanger.KevinAnd zoom. That just makes you look like there's got to be the person in hiding and like, a in voice changer. I sorry time about this traffic that. Yeah.KevinOh, all right.AndrewStory is good for that speaking. Sorry time was up first. I got one. I didn't write it down. Yeah, I got one. Yeah, we had the academy last week, so that was. That was amazing. Taking through. Jeez, 11, 12 people. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. What's that like 12 hours of instruction? It wears me out like, Oh, my. And I'm.AndrewI'm doing half of it with Sarah. And what's, what's fun is over time, this is like inside knowledge over time. It's like, okay, you take that segment, I would take a break for a little bit. Like I just can't like, look at like at Zoom nice and pleasant for this long and I need to go camera off for like, for a little bit, get a little snack, refill my coffee, whatnot.AndrewSo, you know, each one, it just changes and changes. And we Sarah and I meet afterwards every single time. Like, what can we do better? What can we do better? And every single time I'm just like, man, I want another day, which is like torture for everybody. Like, it's already four days. Andrew What is wrong with you? But there's just so much you can just keep going and going.AndrewI wish there was some way this. I'm just really open talking right now. We teach the definitions. We teach knowledge, the foundational things. All these things are super important thing. It's the analysis. And that is the most difficult part for everybody. And teaching, I don't there's we could teach it, but it's just so much just like experience. You just need the reps near the reps and the reps are what's Malcolm Gladwell 10000 hours.AndrewYou need your thousand hours and an analysis. You need your next 1000. They need your next 1000. Time to get to ten. You're like, Oh, okay, this is fairly comfortable, but just getting over the hurdle even to like you spent 200 hours in analytics trying to solve a problem, not just like poking around in there. I wish there's a way to expedite that for people, but there's just there's not no.KevinI don't think you want one. I mean, we've had lots of folks that are good intentioned and they're like, Kevin, we should just take this whole market, provide rhythm, and just have it spit out the answer.AndrewLike an app.KevinOr give us, you know, even internally had a conversation where some people here were like, we just want a number to tell people for this thing of like, this is the goal. I was like, I mean, it doesn't really I, I know this is a well overplayed expression, which I think that reminds me, Olivia, next time I'm on the podcast, I want to have a whole section about things we never need to say again in our industry, that that's just I'm, I keep hearing the same.KevinLike those were analogies and examples to use 12 years ago. Are we still talking about the same thing?AndrewBut I don't know.KevinThe last one is in play. Chess. You do not want to. If you are a great chess player, you there should be no reason that you want to dumbed down the rules of the game to get back to checkers when you are a grandmaster at chess now you do have to be able to. And if you're a true grandmaster, you should be able to teach someone the basic rules and fundamentals of chess without losing your mind, screaming or pouting like a child.KevinOkay, So that's that's I think, part of it.AndrewThat's fair.KevinBut holy cow, what is this drive to get everything so really simplified? So I'm using the chess analogy because I think this is what I mean. I'm on Chess.com if you want to sign up and play me, I'll do it. But just know that I'm in the middle of probably parenting one of my four children and I will mess up.KevinSo excuse a great chess player yet, but thinking moves ahead, right? The more moves you can think ahead, the better. And how I view the analysis problem is that people look at it and go, I just want the answer. And again, there's all sorts of reasons why that's.AndrewLike the final move out. The final move. I don't care how we get there.KevinBut I think they do sometimes and this is on on me and all of us to do a better job teaching and training. They look at what someone who's thinking eight moves ahead and by I don't mean moves, I mean layers. Okay. To go away from the analogy of chess back to the actual thing we're doing here of there is the data and that in itself, let's just say, encompasses three or four layers of analysis, potential analysis.KevinAnd there's always more than one potential. There's one potential. There's at least one true problem or issue. And each of those has no more than three possible reasons why there could be more than one true issue. And then that that, you know, extrapolates. But even beyond that, then you have to start talking, thinking about like, okay, well then let's layer over our company culture and then let's lay over how this sales manager thinks or how that salesperson acts or the usage or non usage of the CRM or the market and the competition and, and, and, and certainly the more layers you have to your point innately, most of it just requires repetition and experience becauseKevinotherwise you just find yourself going through layers one through four and you're like, I got the answer, I'm done. And then I'm almost I'm almost done with this diatribe. You go and present. Let's say you feel really confident that you analyze those three or four layers well and you go into a meeting, you go up to your boss or the sales manager, like, here's what, And then they hit you with the one thing you didn't think of.KevinAnd you're like, Oh, and you know, the Jenga pile just crumbles. I think I think there's just that aspect of and that's why we always talk about use humility with this stuff. It is not the data says X, therefore it must be X, It's hey, this is what it looks like. But is there something we're missing here? Is there something that we don't know but that's going on with this person personally or is there something with the land deal that requires us to be acting in this way because we have to perform in a certain, you know, Anyway, I just I love the fact that you brought that up.KevinI think it's a whole other.AndrewThat exactly what was fun was it's.KevinAlmost like you should talk about that at.AndrewThe.KevinSummit.AndrewAnd so like food. So let's talk about food. Beth So one thing we did different with this academy is usually it is Sarah and I, 95% of it. And then I add to Kevin's calendar like 6 hours before it starts, like, Hey, Kevin, I want you to talk about this. And Kevin hops on and does some inspirational talking like, Hey, what's the role of marketing?AndrewLike, No, no, no. And what's fun is no one gets that answer correct at the beginning. It's day one unless.KevinThey've heard it before.AndrewThat is true. Unless they've heard it before it. The second day, I'm like, Oh, let's have a coach on. Julie, you're our next victim. And in November, by the way, get her some notice. Beth hopped on and she she did a very similar analogy, Kevin, where she talked about onions. And so, like if you're day one or we had some people that there like month three on the job, they can only go to the first layer in the onion.AndrewMeanwhile, we're over here kind of talking and then just like visualizing and thinking like we know there's like 12 layers to this thing. We also know there's old onions we need to think about and there's future. And we're like all excuse me, all over the place with it. So the Onion analogy, I'm like, Oh, that's good. There might be tears too, as you learn more and more Onion feels that has me like, Oh, I'm embarrassed.AndrewI didn't know that. Or like, I feel like an idiot. But over time, like you didn't.KevinRealize that it's just more such a nerd. And then we just had a special guest pop on, which this is a.AndrewSurprise party.KevinAnd you never need an invitation. Don't don't give away who yet, but as a kid, I remember watching Lawrence of Arabia, which is a way too long movie in an old theater. My parents made me go I think I was seven, the only scene from that. And I think it's three and a half hours long and has two different intermissions or whatever.KevinThere's one scene where Lawrence of Arabia puts out a candle with his fingertips and the guy looks at him and says, Holy cow, what's the trick to doing that? Because because it looks like there's a trick, because it doesn't cause him any pain. He doesn't like his fingers. He just pushes it and he goes, The trick is making it look like it doesn't hurt.KevinAnd I just think like that's we've talked about this many of our ways, the confidence aspect. In fact, what do we say on I call it it's either it's either lack of confidence or lack of competence. So some good alliteration there. But it goes back to repetition, repetition, repetition. Hey, Carla, Welcome.JulieHi, I'm.AndrewFriend.KarlaGood. What are you doing?KevinOh, we're just recording a podcast. And Carlos, our creative director. And do you convert? For those of you who may be under a rock, she's taking names and changing lives all over the industry. What's what's the what's going on right now? Carla, What's. What do you. What are you doing? What's keeping you busy these days?KarlaI'm busy all the time. I feel like the last time I was on here was back in January, so I decided to crash a party.AndrewIt's been a while.KarlaIt has been a while. But I do slack, y'all. Y you're always recording. You can't talk. I'm recording. I'm like, Okay, well, um, I don't know. It's funny how there's always, like, these weird trends. At the beginning of the year, it was very heavy. Like, but everyone wanted to redo their collateral and refresh it. And then we went into like a signage program.KevinYeah, I was going to say signage would be my guess, the next one. And by the way, isn't it interesting that if you heard someone talk about like hearing these trends like we do on, on this podcast, you'd be like, does that really happen? Or and then you go do it yourself and you're like, There's something in the water or the air or like, there's this behind the scenes network of Let's all talk about signage.KevinIt comes in waves for sure.KarlaIt's really weird. And then the other last month had a bunch of, you know, probably like five different calls, different builders around the country, and they're all talking about like their sales office. And I'm like, what is going on? How is everyone wanting to now look into like their interior signage mission is bizarre. And then I was in book a book booklet land for a while, like maybe.KevinLike real paper things.KarlaPrint I've done. So print booklets that took up my time for the.KevinLike.KarlaI don't.KevinMean like checks notes or checks calendar what year we live in, but, you know, Yeah.JulieYeah, there's a lot of that. I didn't expect it like collateral you expect but like long booklets, 20 pages.KevinBecause you could or could not print the collateral. It's like how it's displayed. Yeah. Took them off, you know, printed. Yeah.KarlaThey want like hard copies. Interesting. So that doesn't sound cheap. It doesn't. It sounds like something else. It's not that sounds. But I am sort of buying the booklets.AndrewYeah, that would be pricey.KevinIs there something that you've been doing this now, like you said, for a little while? I mean, you've been doing it a long time, but doing it with with us. Is there a we were just talking about like the the trend of analysis being hard outside of what people are actually asking you to do. Is there something that you find yourself having to explain or re-explain or.KarlaYeah.KevinRe-explain again, as a concept that you just want to kind of toss out again here?KarlaProbably you have to think about, here's one, I'll talk about it because it's about collateral. And so usually when we start with that, I'm kind of like, give me everything that you have because you probably haven't touched it. And what typically happens, it comes off as a these ideas part from sales and marketing, and they get tagged onto the collateral package as these one off pieces.KarlaSo I'm like, Hey, let's go ahead and take a look at this is yet another foot view. And more often than not, they have a billion pieces. That's evergreen material. And I'm like, Why don't you think about making this a better experience instead of someone having a bunch of one pictures? So I would always say, take a step back, think about the experience, what you're giving these people.KarlaAre you burying them in tons of copy and things they may not want to read? And is there a better way to display that? Should we make it into a book? Should we? That is even important. Do you want to cut some of this out? That's typically what we're talking about when we talk about like looking at all their stuff.KevinMm hmm.KarlaIt's very easy, I think, for people to just. Oh, this is a good idea. Element is I don't a piece of paper on a word document and they always don't think about how it looks or how it's saved or how much stuff people are gathering.KevinYeah, a quick, quick poll on material or files. Generally, I'm not going to answer until the end because. But don't you think that or do I already led the witness? Sorry. Shouldn't every document that could be potentially sent or accessed or shared have some general repository that is accessible? Like like nobody home didn't start out doing this, but they found that people were like, I have all these documents that I send people maybe post-purchase or pre-purchase.KevinAnd there is no place on their website. They just how's everything even like you think about docs? So like, why is that hard to find for nonexistent on a builder site?KarlaThat would be nice to have.KevinThat's right.KarlaResource library.AndrewThat'd be that'll be great. Especially HRA stuff is interesting. I mean at least our experiences, we changed each way. Management companies like four times before, it was like our control, but it was like with it was still with the builder. So we're like, Who's in charge here? Who's in charge as homeowners do you blame? I mean, everything is always the builders fault, like always.AndrewThat's just made us, even though it's the way management company's fault, because you chose that terrible company, the builder, and so everything is the builder.KevinSo just make it easy for that saying I'm not suggesting it should be like front and center underneath our image or whatever it be for us. We just had a archway section, so we had it. We had a document library or a overall, I think we just called it Media Library and it had like any photo you might see on a community page would also be accessible in this Keystone Homes ish for those of us.KevinLike, it's like all of our pictures are here is searchable by everything, but also they're on the individual pages that are relevant to them. Same with videos and documents. And so we didn't even have a link on the community page to the docs because that might be distracting or confusing. Yeah, but certainly any time someone would ask, can I get a copy of my HRA docs that then the online sales person or salesperson who would then train the customer.KevinActually, there's this library over here and you can access anything that we have or need need to get to and it's grouped and searchable and all the rest anyway. And just when you were talking about like how separated each piece kind of is, instead of thought of in a cohesive manner. Manner. Yeah, it made me think about.KarlaThe only thing I would say that I've experience with something like that. Well, it just comes up in collateral information in general. Is that I think some teams can be lazy because someone has to keep up with the information being up to date. And so if you take the time to like make sure you have a good organization in place, like a good file, good filing, and like, you know, what's more up to date.KarlaYeah, good nomenclature. You make sure everything is what it's supposed to say, then I think it's definitely doable. But I think people just sometimes just, you know, maybe not able to. Yeah, it's a big thing to kind.KevinOf we got at that pushback all the time at Heartland and that was my that was my reason for wanting it to be out there in the wild is I just found that if it wasn't accessible by the customer, things never got updated or there were four copies going around. But once there was like, No, no, you know, some yeah, maybe someone has a document that's out of date.KevinYou have to make sure everything's dated and, and like last updated and the corner. But it was like, yeah, that document's incorrect, but I'd rather we know that and then we fix it versus having no visibility or people handing out something that's five years old that has four updates and they still have copies somewhere else saved locally, or just like, Nope, the truth is there for the customer.KevinSo that's the impetus to always make sure as it's correct, just like pricing.AndrewYeah, it doesn't create a problem which exposes what was already there.KevinShines a light on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Well, Karla, thanks for hopping on. Yeah, Bye. Any time. I love. I love just the mean. Yeah, It's like you work here.KarlaIt is Like I want to keep it creative cave and create a cave.AndrewWith your plan.KarlaThe next.KevinTime. Bring some next time. Since this is now a video show as well. Next time, I want you to bring some like, show and tell us something.AndrewYeah, there they go.KevinBy the way, if you don't follow girl on Instagram, you should, because that's when you get some additional exposure to like show and tell.KarlaOh, yes, I'm very quiet about it. Anyway, you'll have a good afternoon. Bye.KevinThis is episode 300. You made it.AndrewYeah, 303.KevinI'm like the biggest episode zero yet. Yeah.JulieThat's the best. All right, y'all have a good one. This is fair to say, Julie.KevinStory time.JulieSo I am watching my mom shop for a car, and it's been very entertaining. And the last thing I heard her say was that she was annoyed because she wanted somebody to beg her to buy a car and they were not begging her. So what happened is she had reached out to somebody about a car and they had never emailed or called her back.JulieAnd I know we always feel or hear people saying, Oh, I don't want to bug people. Well, she's annoyed because she wants to feel like they're begging her to buy a car. And then the other thing that's been funny is she's gone out to a few lots and of course, there's not a lot of cars. You know, still, there's issues with like actually having cars there.JulieAnd she's not being super picky. She kind of knows what she want. She wants three rows and she wants a new car and there's only a brand or two that she doesn't like, but she's pretty open. But I think Kevin and I have had multiple conversations in the last week or two about the messaging of like, we have homes because there are people who are moving that need a home and we have finished inventory.JulieAnd those people need to know we have finished inventory. So it's again, it's the same thing with her. If there was a car dealership out there, you know, that would tell her, we have this many cars that you can choose from. Right now we have this many SUVs or whatever it is. Yeah, that's the messaging she needs. And she also needs the messaging of like, we want you here.JulieLike, she feels like people aren't trying to get her to come out and aren't calling her back. So it's just been a fun process to watch with with what we do.KevinIt's really interesting because my wife's birthday was on Tuesday and she likes Cheesecake Factory because there's all kinds of options and we were going to have my parents come as well. So there's a table of eight, and at least here, the Cheesecake Factory is still cool in central Ohio. So most time you got a long wait. And I think you're talking about cars, which typically is a reference point of like, why can't homebuilders do things like car dealers do historically, like be more responsive, but now they're changing.KevinAnd my point is, whether it's Cheesecake Factory or Toyota. As a consumer, you are trained by all of your interactions with all the companies. You do what to expect or to assume. And so it's it's interesting how that dynamic does shift because typically it's like like my kids are like, you don't want to go to Cheesecake Factory. You got to wait for 2 hours and then it's going to take forever to cook because there's so many different options on the menu.KevinBut I really want to go there. So we pull it up and on the front page it's like make a reservation. Like we've never been able to make a reservation at Cheesecake Factory ever. And then it says Only up to table Party of six. And I'm like, up, see, they got us because we need eight. But then there's like, you could tell that it had been designed to say parties of six and under but then someone to just add a line of text that said but if you have a bigger party and it's on a non busy day or time, we'll try to work with you.KevinAnd it's like, why did that have to be there? It's because the dynamics have shifted. And so there is this point in time where we stopped eating out altogether because it was just always a pain, always busy, always short staffed, and now they're like, Oh yeah, no problem. Come on in at 530, 6:00 on a Tuesday night.AndrewWith a.KevinTable of eight reserved. And so it's that training and that's why we've had these conversations. Julie, of, you know, that concern about having like six homes available in a community and not looking bad or desperate that that might not be true anymore. We don't know someone might look at that six available in a single community and be like oh thank God I can actually maybe get one of them.KevinIs the use on market is still so difficult in most parts of the country.JulieYeah, yeah.AndrewWhat's interesting, Julie, is that sounds like the most amazing car shopping experience ever. Them not hounding you like it's a dream for me and you want to be like, Mom, you're not trying to date this person. Like what? Despite you want that car right there. But if they don't call you, you're not going to buy it. Like, I don't feel like that.KevinBy saying beg in quotes. Like my dad had the same experience. He just shop for a car. He would go to a Lexus dealership and they'd be like, Oh, we don't you know, you couldn't even talk to a salesperson. You had to talk to the receptionist because they didn't want you to feel like you were busy. And then the guy would show up and he's like, Oh, sorry, I can't get any of the keys to test drive anything.KevinIt's locked in a safe. Can you come back some other day? And they never call. That's just like, Here's my card. You follow up with me when you want to come back out. Like it's. It's this complete lack of any customer experience.JulieYeah, that's. She's like, it's one of those experiences where it's like, I want to give you money. Like I have money to give you to buy a car and nobody acts like they want to help me with this, you know? So I think it's just frustrating for her that nobody is taking her. And so if she comes out and she's like, This is what I'm looking for.JulieAnd they're just like, now, you know, I think it's just she doesn't feel like anybody is there to help her through the process and she's getting frustrated with it.AndrewMake you want to go Tesla and just like next next next next $500 deposit that shows up in a month done.KevinRight.AndrewYeah no people.KevinStill well it is an argument for a really good self service but it always comes back to the complexity of the purchase, the fear of making a wrong decision, and the number of options that home builders have. Make self service, generally speaking, not the same experience. And I always go back to like, yeah, there's so many different apps that say design your own home with this fun, you know, architectural app and it's easy as one, two, three.KevinYou look at the and then you try to like design anything and it just keeps saying error error like why can't I put that window there? I don't know. It just won't let me. It's just not as intuitive still as an opening.JulieEspecially for her. This would not work for her. She's over 70. I know some people over 70 would love it, but not her specifically.AndrewNo.KevinYeah.AndrewI would love it.KevinMy story time is just about the first part anyway, is how difficult it is to create something. Andrew and I were talking about this too, because, you know, he's creating new content. He and Sarah are also making new content for the market proof of Academy. And I was asked by NAHB to do a webinar and around a topic that I wrote for Builder magazine about.KevinSo I like I have the content I know like it's my own story in a way of my experience with Hartland of navigating a downturn market and what we did and how we did. I wrote this 1100 word article already and yet to sit down and craft from a blank set of PowerPoint slides, which I don't even love, really using slides in the same way as most people anyway.KevinBut it was just I had this experience when I was done with it of am I getting it like I'm not too old for this, I'm not giving up. But there is is like for 10 minutes afterwards, I was just so mentally exhausted from putting in the effort of building what ended up being like a 38 page presentation from nothing that I was just like, I'm too old for this.KevinLike, this is a young person's game making content and this is just hard. And that's, that's I think why people love the idea of I help and prompting and the rest. But anyway, I just shout out to anyone who ever makes anything. And Julie just wrote a book, but like creating something, especially when it's a combination of factual data and opinion and storytelling and, and, and who that's just tough.KevinIt's it's really, really tough. Now, the payoff was, was awesome because we ended up having I think over 450 people ended up registering put a link in the shots because they said, though as soon as it's posted on their website, we'll be able to put a link in for people to watch the replay as well. A lot of good questions, really good interactions, good time, but man is.KevinBut then there's the podcast, which is the opposite, and it's like this is the easiest thing ever. I look at the show notes 10 minutes before we hit record. We just talk time. We're swapping out articles last second or you know it. This is so effortless for me anyway. But creating that type of content is really hard. And so if.JulieYou put 1000 hours in on the podcast, is part of it, you're comfortable really, you're just you've had enough reps of that. Also, I think the hard thing is, is that good content looks effortless. So we're watching other people's content and we're like, Man, why is that? Why does mine not look like that? Why does mine feel so hard?JulieAnd then what you don't know is that just because it looked easy doesn't mean it was easy. So almost my story time. So I'm going to do a story time Part two. So. Okay. I'm a purple though, in jujitsu, so I'm usually one of the higher belts, if not the highest in the morning class that I go to.JulieAnd there's a lot of white belt women there.AndrewFor those who don't know, that means you can probably kick anyone's but at the summit.JulieRight? Well, lots of that out there. But so the professor, the coach there, sorry, this is making our story time really long. That's the coach there. Some mornings we'll say, okay, higher belts, you have to let the lower belt start wherever they want. So these white belt girls who are younger than me, probably stronger than me, can say, okay, I would like to start on your back with like about ready to choke you or I would like to start like on top of you.JulieAnd so then I have to work on my escapes and they get a chance to like, work on submissions and things. And so then when I get out, they're like, Man, that was so easy for you to get out. And I want to say, shut your mouth. It was not it was it was terrible. I was fighting for my life.JulieThat's like you think that it looked easy, but it was terrible for me. Like I hated it. Yeah. You know, so sometimes we look at people's content that's good, and we're like, Oh, but that's so easy for them. They just created that and it looked great. But you don't know that they're kind of fighting for their lives or have done that.JulieMany reps are working so hard to make it look that easy. So I think the same to you. People probably saw your presentation. Oh well, this is easy for them, but they don't know what it took behind the scenes to make it look effortless. Right.KevinAnd I, I think if you're a good presenter in any medium, you always are thinking about the audience experience and how they're absorbing it. And the podcast. I just feel like there's I mean, hopefully you're, you know, mowing the lawn, taking a walk, cooking dinner, like this is a great medium to do something else. At the same time.KevinSo it's like this and, and that's length and consistency mean that again, if you're sitting down on your couch with your popcorn and watching this, please don't tell me if you are, because I want to get you something special. I'll buy you popcorn for a year or something if that's actually what's happening. But there just seems like less pressure versus a straight for the same thing happens with the summit content.KevinIt is like you have to put time aside and it's not for me anyway. It's not repetition or practice of the content. It's the constant someone sitting in a seat that may or may not be comfortable after sitting in it for 4 hours. And I want to make sure that the visual payoff as much as possible of what I'm talking about connects or translates or adds something extra and isn't just like, anyway, I just yeah, it's hard.KevinI think content is hard. And you write thousand out the 10,000. I mean, should I should do the math. But if you average six or 7 hours a day talking to people times almost ten years now, I guess talking is not the hard part for me.AndrewYou know.KevinAll right, on to the news and we will try to keep those types of the episode doesn't go forever. MarketWatch dot com mortgage rates could hit 8% economists say, citing a worrying sign not seen since the Great Recession. The 30 year rate is at a critical stage. Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, told MarketWatch.KevinThis is confusing to a lot of people. I feel like we've talked about a couple of times, but just for clarity, the Federal Reserve changes short term rates, the rest of the bond market and Treasury market adjusts based upon supply and demand for different lengths of maturities. The most important one for mortgages is the ten year Treasury note, so that has its own pricing that is not directly impacted by the Fed.KevinThere's a there's a correlation, but it's not directly affected. And then there is a risk premium that people who give money for mortgages want. So the ten year is considered a very safe investment. Unless the US government ceases to exist, they pay their debt by making more money, which is a whole other topic out of thin air. But you're going to get your money from that ten year Treasury bond.KevinSo if people are default on a mortgage, there's a risk that that could occur, especially when the market in the future doesn't look as rosy. And so the the Delta between the ten year and what mortgage rates are at is known as a risk premium. That risk premium and the ten year are both expanding. And that's why even though rates haven't changed very much, they're still headed up and may go headed higher.KevinSo in some sense, before we get into really the the full article, it's it's kind of I would say it is really smart people who have a lot of money at risk saying I think in the near term there is maybe a slightly higher likelihood of people being foreclosed on or loans not being paid back. And so I want more profit basically from the loan to cover potential losses.KevinSo that's that's why that that spread is so important to watch and understand. Anything else in this article that that you all.JulieKnow the I thought it was interesting that they were talking about don't expect the higher rates to hurt home prices. So some people may think, oh, because rates are going up and less people are going than your home prices are going to go down. They said that the that will only happen if the job market, if people are losing their jobs and then that would be when that would happen.JulieSo I thought that was an interesting point.AndrewYeah, it's so interesting. I mean, you know, different local Facebook groups and there's still this weird like thought that like everything is going to crash and people are waiting to buy for this inevitable crash and maybe people want Why would you want that? Like, that's so psychotic. Like what I want the world to be like. They want like, a recession, Great Recession.AndrewI'm like, what is wrong with you? First of all? Like, it's not going to happen.KevinBecause it's going to affect everyone else. They'll be unaffected.AndrewThey'll be unaffected. They'll still have their job perfect, and there'll be any change they could just scoop up a house half the price, what it is now. But so that's just it's interesting that I don't know. That's a common thought, but it definitely seems a somewhat common thinking. But just looking at this one part here, it's like he noted that monthly mortgage payment for a median priced home in 2019 was 1100.AndrewToday, at 8%, that payment would be over 2300.KevinSo that does not include taxes and interest, I believe.AndrewBut then you need to go like, well, those people who didn't buy it either time, what is their rent? Right. It could be 2823 is better than 28. So I'm saying that like this seems very doom and gloom, but like knowing people in our lives that are younger, like, Oh, but in house. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, can I have some details?AndrewYou know, like, I do stuff like, and every single person went down at least 2 to $300 renting to now owning a home. So my Oh, okay, cool. Now they are fortunate, like their career wise, they both had higher income established jobs, so they're both like they made 100 combined income, not not each, but like both. So they able to save up some money.AndrewAnd then both for Ira, both had down payment assistance from the county. Yeah. Which is more interesting. But prices were both met for hundreds for their homes.KevinBeth Russell sharing screenshots of articles, talking about how housing has just become completely like it's I forget the exact headline, something about no one can afford to buy anymore. And what's interesting, I just replied back quickly like that also means people can't afford to sell. And so that, you know, if rates continue to go higher, I think there will be fewer sellers until, to Yoon's point, people have job losses.KevinBut until that point just means there's going to be fewer existing homes on the market and builders are always going to have something for sale.AndrewSo more houses be perfect. Yeah. Builders, there's the supply.KevinAll right. Up next, this is a I really want to talk about this one, even if it's the last one we do. I don't care from geek it Slate.com don't discount the merits of a friction ful transaction. This is written by Drew Myers, the guy I've got to know over the last year and a half or so. Really good guy.KevinFriction is good. Not bad. At least in the residential real estate context. And he goes on to cite all of these different tools, services, platforms that want to make moving it at the push of a button easy. And then he's like, should it be easy? Are you going to make a great decision? If purchasing a home is as easy as ordering light bulbs off Amazon?KevinShould it should it should something that impacts your life so, so severely is a real benefit to having that be frictionless at point.JulieI don't think friction less should be the goal. I think figuring out where the friction should be and where the friction should be in places where we strategically want to slow the process down. So there should be parts of the process that we want to go quickly and easily and parts where we want that friction because we need people to slow down and not just to make the right decision.JulieBut you also can't build a relationship with somebody which sometimes you need to know because, you know, if you want to do more personalization or you want to listen or you want to find out what they want, you're going to have to slow that part down or it's not going to happen. So I think it's just being more strategic about where it needs to go fast and where it needs to go slow and leave the friction in those places.JulieWe need to slow it down.KevinRight. I think his argument here is a somewhat moral, you know, he goes into credit cards are easy and there's lots of studies that show if you pay in cash versus a credit card, you're going to you're going to be making smarter financial choices overall. And so he's like over half a century of cognitive science. And studies have shown that people who do multitask or move quickly.KevinAnd so then he's like, I promise buyer solutions to both with one seamless experience of here's the house for you. It's perfect in every way. Push the button. It's yours. And he's like, Should this desk be compressed to make it as easy to drop 200 grand or $2 million on a house? As easy as it is to drop a $5 bill on some other product or service.AndrewI would like.KevinThis is how he says. I don't buy the idea that people need or even want to buy houses with a single tap on their phone. Sequencing steps helps buyers minimize the chances of a poor investment decision with their hard earned dollars.AndrewI think this is my bias, or maybe this is what I think I don't. People are being polite by using the word frictionless by saying I think that transactional cost to sell and buy a home is absurd, right? Like if you were to sell.KevinThat is true. A lot of it is focused on like.AndrewHodling, like realtors, then like, hey, is there a way to get rid of this percentage? Or maybe you should shift that money to like, Hey, the inspection needs more money behind it and we could have a better inspection for a used home and more emphasis on that versus this kind of general contractor bringing in different trades to get it done.AndrewAnd they're the ones making the most money on the transaction. I don't if that. So, Drew, if you're listening, maybe have a part two of transact, you know, what we should is the same.KevinThing or something and see if he wants to come on some time on, I guess, episode. But one example would be like inspections, housing inspections. Is it really in the buyer's interest to waive those or to let's say that there's a company that says we'll do an AI powered inspection utilizing large amounts of data and we'll just estimate a likely cost of repairs.KevinJust so you have a sense of it. You can either push a button and get that for two bucks or you can wait 72 hours to have for a week to have an actual in-person inspection. Now, I'm not saying take away the optionality for the buyer because that's a negotiation tactic of I'm not going to require that. But all things being equal, just like, is it better to walk through physically the space that you're about to purchase or do it virtually, which is like and this goes like, we are really quick to give away the best option for just one that's better or good enough.KevinAnd I think that's kind of what you're saying. Julie There's there's things where we should always be optimizing to just the best and maybe a good enough in some areas is okay. But I if, if my one of my four kids goes to buy a house that's 25 years old and like, Hey dad, we're going to waive inspections, I'd be like.AndrewNo, you're not.JulieWell, And sometimes it takes a human to explain that, you know what I mean? Like the giving option just on an automated system is different than having a person telling you what the differences in those two choices are.KevinRight? I've even had people tell me, like, I waved my it's like, no matter what happens with the inspection, I can't get out of the contract, so I'm not going to do an inspection and like, you're nuts. Why would you still not want to know?AndrewThey still know.KevinYou may not be a reason to get out of the contract, but at least now you know for planning before you show up, you move in and try to take a bath in the tub, falls through the second floor. I think you would want to still know. I mean.AndrewYeah, all the hurricane things are missed very commonly. Even a newbuilds like, right, Matt Then insurance like that. That sounds terrifying. Hurricane coming. You're like, I wish we got an inspection. Make sure the straps and all that stuff is done correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. I do both. All right, next your question.KevinI mean, it's it's a good thought process and I and I agree that we should be going after the best which might have a little bit of friction but if it's if it's in everyone's best interest and that kind of goes back to like the whole e-commerce ification of our industry I think is a little bit overplayed, not not totally, but a little bit from Reuters.com.KevinEvergrande Remember them files for us Bankruptcy protection as China economic fears mount. So this isn't just a story about Evergrande, which is your remember the place that had like was a 15 or nine towers imploded that were partially built.AndrewA billion.KevinGhost cities. We talked all about this a couple of years ago I think now well they're back the the whole real estate market and China's a mess. Trusts aren't paying out the funds that they're supposed to be. There's people protesting again. So that's interesting in and of itself that it's real estate that's having an issue there. But also just generally a lot of the global economies now are headed towards a recession or a severe decline in activity from where they have been.KevinAnd China is typically a big economic engine. So even if you believe in the soft landing theory of what's going to happen to the U.S. market broadly, there's always a statement of, you know, in China, when China sneezes, the U.S. catches a cold, vice versa, like these two really big economies, there is this global impact. And so Europe's doing poorly, Japan's doing poorly, China is doing poorly.KevinAnd a sense that even if things are great here, you're going into the end to the end of this year, early next year. Just kind of general economic activity in the world is not good. And that's quick aside, sorry I'm talking so much on this one, everyone. But I was having this conversation of someone was saying, Kevin, how do you feel about the housing market over the next 12 to, 24 months?KevinAnd here's here's my main thing is I can't think of in the stock market language, they call it a catalyst like is the stock going to go up or down? There needs to be some new piece of information that is a catalyst for change. I can't think of very many positive catalysts except for the one we just mentioned of existing homes not being available, but they're already not really available in most markets.KevinSo it might get a little bit better if rates go higher and less are available for us. Maybe. But it's almost like all of the good catalysts have already happened or are in play like now. Homes are available. Pricing in a lot of cases have adjusted or come down. And so then there's like the market catalysts that I, I can't really foresee.KevinBut if you can think of any show it did you convert dot com or just reach out to us on social channels. We'd love to hear your thoughts. And then the second thing is from a marketing perspective, even if the market's not doing great as a marketer, if there is some new thing that we could all be working on that always of ups the energy level of like, okay, well we can't do this, this and this, or we can go do this thing that's new and different.KevinAnd there is a little bit of that. And certainly the focus that Julie is helping with with her book on on content is a big piece of it. But again, in terms of a brand new kind of like we've all known we needed to do content well for a long, long time.AndrewYeah.KevinJulie's book is a great resource to help us do that better. People are budget, more money to it, but it's not like a completely brand new catalyst thought of this is really going to ignite something. So I think that's why I'm just generally I kind of like, enjoy what you got, why you got it. Keep getting better, keep your eye on the ball, work hard.KevinAll right. All the phrases from oh, yeah, something else.AndrewAll the phrases, all the phrases there. Keep going.KevinFrom Zillow.com. First home ownership surges. Half of all home buyers are making their first purchase. Half of all home buyers are purchasing their first home, the highest share that Zillow has ever recorded. And for Housing Trends Report finds that first time buyers now make up 50% of all home buyers, up from 45% last year, and a meaningful jump from 37% in 2021.KevinThat's really interesting to me.AndrewYeah. Trump on the age group they had is that millennials, which are 29 to 43 year olds, that's not what we think of young people, right?KevinRight. But they haven't been buying homes. Yeah. So these aren't large numbers until recently.AndrewYoung people.KevinYes. I just think I find it ironic that when in an era of affordability being the main reason slash excuse that people say why homes aren't selling, people can't buy that. It's first time buyers that make up 50%. What do you think?JulieWell, it's it's also what you what you know, if you don't know if you're coming into this market and it's the first time you've bought. I just now Googled we bought our first little condo in 2001 and I just Googled. So I don't know how accurate this is. That said, the rate's average 7.24%. Like they were terrible. We didn't know any different.JulieIt's different this time around because they were down to three and they came up to this. And so it's news. But also if they weren't already in a home with a 3% interest rate. So it is to just speaking to your audience and realizing that not every single person you're talking to is currently in a house with a 3% mortgage rate.JulieThere's people paying cash. There's, you know, first time homebuyers, There's all these other people who are also in the market that we also need to speak to.KevinThat takes us back to where we keep talking about on all of our calls with our with our builder partners and on leadership calls is right now the market is being driven by the four D's death. Diamond's divorce and diapers like that's regardless of where affordability is to your point. Like those are the reasons that you're saying okay.KevinWe're going to buy a house or need a change in our in our situation. GREEN No. All right. Favorites.AndrewFavorites. So let's say what's not what's not my favorite way.KevinWe started this new last time. It doesn't have to be a favorite anymore. It could be just something that's really pissing you off.AndrewOh, well, this is perfect, then. This boom stand is pissing me off. If you've seen me, me, myself. And because it keeps fun, it keeps falling down. So I have a new one that Amazon said. Your shipments arriving late or something. Supposed to be here this morning. I'm like, Oh, I arrive here at 7:11 a.m.. Perfect. It's one this one is like it's blue.AndrewThe blue brand. I think they make a fake out. They make microphones and stuff. It's like a hundred bucks, but it's tension based. So it's like the weather affects it and humidity, for whatever reason is super annoyance. I just bought one that's like you just lock it in because it really doesn't move. I'm excited to replace it. This thing is super annoying.AndrewDon't buy it. It's awful. Well, it's.KevinOne of those things. It's not a buy once. Try once deal with Julie. I thought that would be sad that she bought her camera. But it is one of those things like arm. I had the same challenge, but there's a tension adjustment piece on it.AndrewYeah, but.KevinFor the last year I have not bothered to mess with. I'm just like the things slowly would float up and it would annoy me and I'd push it back down and it would stay there for 5 minutes and then slowly float back up. Just having the right equipment is half the battle. It's worth it almost every time. And then the second is just taking the time again to take care of it like I talked about before.KevinBut yeah, that's.AndrewIt's so someone wants to.JulieMine are homework helpers this year for math he has homework helpers. We're basically has the same worksheet that he's working on that shows you what you're supposed to do without the answers on it. Thank goodness, because I was having to google everything. And it's not that it's like hard stuff. It just doesn't make any. It just I've never seen it laid out like that and I have no idea how to help them.JulieSo thank goodness already we're like two weeks into school and I'm already having to like, go to the homework helpers and figure out what in the heck they're talking about. So I'm having homework so I.AndrewLearn rational numbers and irrational numbers whole. Yeah, I'm like, I don't.JulieKnow, like, yes, I'm like, Wait, I don't know what they're asking. So that's been my go to this week.KevinLet's see what I'm going to is going to pick some app on my phone that I think that I use that I think most people may not have. There's one called Sunshine Birthdays. You've all seen this before. That's Marissa mayer of former Yahoo Fame. That's her company. And what it does is it lets you log in and connect all of your different accounts and just create a single source of truth, people's birthdays.KevinIt also does the same thing for contacts. So it's kind of like an iCloud. That's not Apple only, but it'll go to all of your social networks, your Gmail, whatever, and your calendars already, and then it'll say, Hey, there's three different birthdays or three different profiles for Andrew. Pete, do you want to consolidate them? Is this the right day?KevinIt's one of those small little things that and then it reminds you, you can look at it easily a week in advance or a mother of and Sue's birthdays are coming up. They're their play, as you know. They make it really easy to order someone something if you want to through the app. But it's just one of those nice little things that you're like, this is just helpful to not not miss birthdays anymore.AndrewDoes it go through like does it prefer Amazon as far as like it tries to sync it to Amazon, like get you to buy? The reason I'm saying the best purchases from you have this really cool experience and then they get like the affiliate money from pushing all these transactions from their app. So I'm like, Oh, that's genius.AndrewLike, let's make it easy for people to shop for birthdays. We make money by being affiliate with all these different e-commerce companies.KevinI might have spoke too quickly there. I thought an option to send presents, but what I'm getting now is just ordering cards or cards.AndrewOh, they go.KevinIt's probably just through their on experience.AndrewIt's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It is a hard to remember.KevinSomething and it's called sunshine. It'll brighten your day.AndrewI think. Sunshine.KevinAll right, that'll do it for season one of marketing. Of marketing. Be sure to join us for the beginning of season two next week. We'll see you then.JulieSee. The post Ep 300: Good Content Looks Effortless appeared first on Online Sales and Marketing for Home Builders - DYC.

This episode of the Live Better Seller Better Podcast features Beth Jacobs, Chief Growth Officer at vChief. Ever since the pandemic prompted lockdowns and many people have changed to a remote work set-up, most have started to think differently about working in an office and having autonomy.Beth shares her experience working from home since 2009 and how she got there, finding out where which work environment you thrive in, and why working remotely is effective for some and not others. She also provides insights for leaders in building structure to make sure their teams are still getting things done. HIGHLIGHTSDistinguishing the difference between performing and thriving Your work experiences brought you to where you are todayHow leadership can make sure people are getting things done when working remotelyThe connection and importance of accountability and autonomy QUOTESWorking too many hours a week - Beth: "So what did I do? I worked more. And the problem is that you get into a cycle where that is rewarded. Like I can have you instead of two people. It worked for me for a while and I was rewarded for it so it has taken me many years to break some of those habits."Understanding what people value in terms of working hours - Beth: "People can think about what they are valuing and the fact that you are working so hard and what that actually means in terms of what you're producing and how you're performing."Building a healthy and sustainable work set-up as a leader - Beth: "As leaders, it comes down to finding a fit for you in an organization that values the same things that you value and then ensuring that that is the leadership that you are giving to your team." You can find out more about Beth in the links below:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-jacobs-55952b18/Twitter: https://twitter.com/_beth_jacobs_ Live Better. Sell Better. is sponsored by our proud partners:Vidyard | vidyard.comChili Piper | chilipiper.com

Beth Pickens is a Los Angeles-based consultant for artists and arts organizations and the author of Make Your Art No Matter What: Moving Beyond Creative Hurdles (Chronicle Books, 2021) and Your Art Will Save Your Life (Feminist Press, 2018).  To offer your own advice, call Zak @ 844-935-BEST TRANSCRIPT: ZAK: I love a specialist. That's how I'd describe Beth Pickens. BETH: So, I essentially counsel artists. I went to school to be a therapist. I only work with artists and I've been talking recently with artists about how to re-enter a project or something that you have been avoiding for a long time. And you have a lot of fear about. It's a thing that comes up for artists when somebody has like a durational project, a book or an album, or some big thing that they're doing. Sometimes, you know, after the honeymoon phase wears off, it can be hard to sustain that marathon nature to keep going through it. Especially if you don't have somebody waiting for it, if you don't have a deadline or accountability. Um, and so, what will happen is a person maybe will retreat from the long durational project. And then it will start to build into something in their mind that they become afraid of, but they can't get back to, and it becomes this big mental block about, I want to finish that. I'm afraid of it. I don't know how. It's impossible. It becomes this sort of cycle of self-defeat. And so I will often work with clients to help them re-enter, kind of tiptoe back into the water of a big project that they've lost the honeymoon limerence feelings for, but they really are committed to. ZAK: How do you tip toe back? BETH: We start really simple. You start with just like 15, 20 minutes. Just planning to be in the project for 15 or 20 minutes. And I'll often recommend that people actually just kind of go into the world they're creating and turn the lights on. So if it's a manuscript, for example, or if it's a body of music to go first and just inhabit it, read everything they have. listen to everything that they have and do that about four or five times, just for 15 minute increments, maybe once a week, maybe a few times a week, to first just to re-inhabit the universe and let it come alive in your subconscious. Because so often for a big project, the solutions that artists come up with happen when they're not sitting in front of the computer, when they're in the midst of it, it's like when they're on a walk, when they're washing the dishes, when they're doing something else, they can have an idea of, this is where I can go next. Not necessarily a breakthrough, it doesn't have to be that big, but it can be just an indication of this is a next step. So we start with really tiny increments and then celebrating that as an achievement, like telling an artist friend right before you do it and then telling them right after you do it and celebrating, just re-entering, tip-toeing back into the water. And that sort of breaks the myth that seal of I can't do it. It's impossible. There's no way back in. It's just by slowly reentering and not doing it with a ton of pressure that I have to go in and finish it or figure it out. Cause I think that's not realistic. And it's a mean thing to expect of oneself. ZAK: Yeah. I love this two-part process. BETH: Oh yeah. Having somebody outside be like that big congratulations. You can do it again, but for today you're done. You don't have to do that again today.

Learn More About The Content Discussed...No Boss Talk:https://nobosstalk.comKelly Roach’s Website:https://kellyroachcoaching.comKelly Roach on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/kellyroachinternationalThe Camp Elevate Facebook Group:hereBeth’s Instagram:@bethholdengravesBeth’s website:https://www.bethholdengraves.comProfit HER Way Course:https://www.bethholdengraves.com/profitKeynotes discussed:Now I feel like I can like look you in the eyes, I can have a real conversation, we can connect with one another. I never once felt like I could connect with people. It's like it almost stole my superpower because I was so good at selling when I could connect with people. (07:16)If you decide that you want this to be a moneymaking venture, you can, you know, turn it into a business where you can quit your day job, retire your spouse, travel the world, retire, whatever the case. (12:34)She did a $300,000 launch her first month and unstoppable because she leveraged her existing Facebook group that she had never really understood how to get maximum value out of. (15:22)The way that you create that is when you deliver compelling content that really meets people where they are and serves them in a really high level. (16:52)And this is the big piece that sets you apart besides just personable, valuable content that works by the connection is the accountability piece is, I have someone in my inbox saying, Hey, Beth let's chat. (20:39)When Did It Air...January 20, 2020Episode Transcript...Beth:Welcome to ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’. If you are determined to break glass ceilings and build it your way, this show is for you. I’m your host Beth Graves and I am obsessed with helping you to not just dream it, but make the plan, connect the dots and create what you crave. Are you ready? Let’s get started.Hey bosses and welcome back. Another episode that I'm saying, oh my goodness, pinch me, how did I get this opportunity? I guess it happened because I visualized, manifested and just decided I will have Kelly Roach on the show. And it is happening! I'm excited for you to dive into this episode. A little bit about Kelly is, she is known as the Business Catalyst helping elite business owners become game changers in their field, achieving million-dollar breakthroughs in business. She has helped me to have my own personal breakthrough and you'll hear about that in this episode.She is a former fortune 500 executive and she transitioned from her big, big job in fortune 500 to working with online strategies for entrepreneurs. I am so grateful that she made this transition so that she could be accessible to all of us with her live launch strategies. She's been featured in every major publication on every major news station and now on You're Not the Boss of Me podcast. She has her own podcast too, which is called Unstoppable Success Radio. I listened to it without fail every single time when an episode drops. I cannot wait for you to hear what Kelly has to say. And trust me, you will want to hear about how the live launch method can help you grow your online or network marketing business. So, are you ready, bosses? Here we go.All right, everyone welcome. And you can't even imagine how excited I am to have like my girl crush idle with me. It's like when she said yes, I felt like, Oh my gosh. So, Kelly Roach, welcome.Kelly:Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.Beth:So, I found you when I was scrolling Facebook one day and I saw this perky video about how we could use live video, to sell without being weird, spammy, all of those things. And I was so curious because most of our listeners are network marketers who are looking to be more authentic and genuine. And I know with your live launch programs, you work with a ton of us. I'm wondering, coaching clients. So can you talk about what comes to mind when, let's go back to when you decided that the webinar or, and we do a lot of that even in network marketing was old school and how you discovered life being the way to create better community, create better connections and have more sales.Kelly:Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, if I dial it back to where all of my original business success came from, I was literally going door to door business to business, working for a fortune 500 company doing sales. I literally would come in the office; I would pound the phones for four hours straight. Like literally didn't even put the phone down. It would rest on my shoulder in between calls until I got a headset. And, and then in the afternoon I would go out every day to 20 to 30 businesses. So, this was like hardcore, you know, sell it. Right? And, but what was really, really cool about it was Beth, when I could connect, you know, face to face, eyeball to eyeball, belly to belly with someone. I made the sale, you know? And then when I started my own business in 2012, I'm like, okay, cool.Like social media is awesome. It's this amazing like interface and platform and all of that. But what I started noticing was happening was like all of these layers and layers of technology and barriers and things to manage were coming in, but I was new to the online space. So, as I grew my business, I was listening to the people that were teaching how to build business online. I was still taking the principles that I knew, but I was like, okay, how do I apply this to social media? How do I apply this to the online world? And so, I'm layering in all the tech and the funnels and the emails and the webinars and the prerecorded videos and the list goes on and it's just exhausting, and it just never really resonated for me. It never felt good. I never felt like I could show up.Like right now I feel like I can like look you in the eyes, I can have a real conversation, we can connect with one another. I never once felt like I could connect with people. It's like it almost stole my superpower because I was so good at selling when I could connect with people. And then I felt like when I got into the online world, I had so many barriers between me and people that I lost my superpower. And so finally one day I was just like, screw this. I remember, you know, the girls are still on my team now that were with me and I was like, we're getting rid of it all. I'm like, I'm not doing any of that anymore. I'm like, it's ridiculous. It doesn't work. It's not working. You know, we worked so hard. So, I said, let's just try, like us and the camera.Like let's just try like removing all of these obstacles and barriers and try to focus on connecting once again with people. And low and behold, the second that we made that change, our business started to grow and grow and grow exponentially because now all of my competitors are doing prerecorded videos and prerecorded videos and edited, you know, stuff with, you know, all this fake like, you know, you know what you see online. It's like all fabricated stories of the fairies and unicorns, right? And glitter and dust and then here I am, just this person that's teaching and sharing real stuff and people are getting value from it. And it just exploded. And then I was like, okay, this is too good not to teach. And that's how I started teaching the live launch method. It was really out of necessity because we were failing not out of like something so great that was working so well, but it's now really revolutionizing the way that people do business online. It's really cool.Beth:So, I'll share with our listeners because I've shared with you that I felt really called once. And I'm saying this to network marketers, that I see too many people attempting to coach before they've, what I think is the before you've made $1 million. So, I just thought, okay, I want to share what I've learned. That is not all of the magic tricks. Like I kept seeing like build your business with automation. Never get on the phone again. And I'm thinking we're changing people's lives. We've taken what we've learned from you, in terms of our network marketing team. We're now doing laser coaching sessions, so they get to work with a Million-dollar earner. We are, and we'll talk a little bit at the end. Kelly just challenged me to create a live launch. So, stay tuned for how we can share the business opportunity with more people using what we call the live launch.So, some of you are thinking, what is live launch? And I want to give a little background of, I had invested so much money into thinking about how I could build out coaching programs and always got caught up in the tech, could not figure out how to put the Facebook pixel for an ad. And then it was overwhelming. I thought, screw it. I make plenty of money in network marketing, but my message, the amount of women that I can impact and help now is incredible, because that's my mission. So, I took a leap into live launch and literally just started sharing the tools and techniques, built a group and have women that I'm already working with in a program, and paid back my investment within 48 hours, which was insane. It's insane. It's crazy. So, we know it's magical and if you're wondering what is live launch? I want to connect those pieces to what we're doing in network marketing.So, I'm going to give Kelly a hot seat right now because I've been in the hot seat. So, let's, let's just role play this. If I was going to, let's say I'm in the travel business, which I'm not, and people could make money with me either booking travel or setting up travel agents to work with them. Okay? And normally they'd hop on a webinar and I'd share all the slides, which took me all day to put together. I missed picking my daughter up from school because I'm putting together the slides and literally it felt like my drunk uncle was driving me around. But I've decided I'm going to do this, the live launch. Wait, we're like creating something right here on, on the spot. And so, what comes to mind if someone's listening and says, okay, I want to use Facebook Live to share what we're doing with this travel business. So how would live launch work for that?Kelly:Yeah, definitely. Oh my gosh, I'm getting so excited. So, if it were me, the way that I would design the live launch would be like I would have part one of the content be you know, how to get your luxury travel paid for. Right? And never spend a dime while staying in the best resorts around the world. Right? So, it would be like you would teach them, the first thing that people want to do is they want to travel more, and they don't want to spend their life savings on it, right? So, you have to meet people where they are. Right? And then it might be like the second piece of content might be how I went from, you know, getting my travel paid for to getting paid to travel. Right? And then the third set might be how I went from getting my travel paid for to quitting my day job and being able to retire my spouse based on my travel, you know, my side travel business and then in might be how I can help you launch your own travel business, even in the pockets of your spare time, so that you can first get your travel paid for.And then if you decide that you want this to be a moneymaking venture, you can, you know, turn it into a business where you can quit your day job, retire your spouse, travel the world, retire, whatever the case. But really what it is, is you start off by meeting people where they are and giving them the content that they really crave. Everybody wants to travel more. Everybody wants to get their travel paid for. How can someone do that? Right? They can get into a network marketing couple company that offers travel, right? Buy and do it. Start taking the trips themselves, get the trips paid for, invite other people to do it. How do you do that? You share content. When you travel, you show the beautiful pictures, you show the video, you do live streams from there talking about, I cannot believe it, but this is me working right now, right?This is me working, I'm, you know, on the beach and you know, blah blah blah. I think it's just what we have to remember is that everybody in this day and age wants to feel connected. That is why we're on social media 24/7. But the problem is that, and scientific research shows this, although people are more connected than ever, they feel more disconnected than ever, right? But when you come live and when you teach and you add value for people and you show up in perfectly, that's a really important part. Like I let my dog in with me, I let my five-year-old daughter and with me, you know, like showing up in perfect is a huge piece of your human connection. That's going to get people really excited to buy into your brand because it gets them to open up to you to say, Oh, you know what? Beth is like human, like she's cool. You know, she's someone I want to get to know, right? She's not just this, you know, talking head on a white screen, you know, green screen behind her that's trying to present as you know, this, that and the other. So, I don't know if that answers kind of what you were looking.Beth:Yeah. Oh my gosh. My brain like is triggering and I'm thinking, okay, so that, that was just one topic. So when you think about the pillars of what I've noticed in Unstoppable Entrepreneurs, and even in the free group is, this is where people stay in network marketing businesses is, you talked about community and connection. So, a lot of us out there have these groups where people are hanging out learning products and we're missing the boat. It's sell, sell, sell, special, special, special, buy my stuff, join my team. And it's turning people away. What would your suggestion be for people that have existing groups using some of these awesome live launch tools?Kelly:Oh my gosh. So great. And this is so huge because I just did an interview with Michelle Bosh. She's in our program. She did a $300,000 launch her first month and Unstoppable because she leveraged her existing Facebook group that she had never really understood how to get maximum value out of. So, there's probably listeners right here right now that could be doing the same thing that just don't know. Like, you know, how do I take these pieces and make it work? I think exactly what you just described though; Beth is exactly what's been happening in the coaching space to be honest. I feel like, you know, there's so much selling and so much marketing that people forgot that we're here to serve.So what I say is first of all, if you have a Facebook group, start doing a weekly live show, right? You know, obviously Beth works with me, so you know, I'm such a believer in this, but start doing a weekly live show where you're not selling anything. You're not asking for anything. You are focused on giving. You are showing up to serve. You are showing up to add value for the people in your group. You're setting the tone as the leader and the group of what your values are, what kind of leader you are and that people should come hang out in your group and spend time there because no one wants to hang out in a group where all they feel like they're getting promos and specials and sales and buy more, and you know, do this and do that. Like people want to feel like there's something in it for them, right?There's a reason to come spend time here and as you said, Beth, they want community, real community, not just being in the group because it just so happened that someone's prospecting you to join their downline or you know they're in the group because you know, maybe at some point they've expressed an interest in a product. They actually want to feel a real sense of community. And the way that you create that is when you deliver compelling content that really meets people where they are and serves them in a really high level. What will happen is people start commenting on your chat and they start engaging with one another. They start getting to know other members of the group and now all of a sudden you have this dead group that you feel like you're pulling along on your shoulders to try and get people to engage to people.Looking forward to your weekly live show, building relationships with one another, posting of their own volition in the group because there's like a dialogue going. I always say it's like playing catch, right? That's like you don't want it. No one wants to play catch with themselves. They want to play catch with someone else and if they feel like it's just a one sided, they're being hammered with offers and specials and sales and do this, and there is no reciprocity. You know they aren't going to invest. Whereas if you build that reciprocity and build it and build it, this is why you see me constantly. Every day I'm doing either a podcast video or podcast, a video, some piece of free content. I'm going in someone else's group. I'm going on someone else's show because you to build a brand, which you guys are not as network marketers, it's really, really important that you're building a personal brand. When someone thinks of you, you don't want them to think of the name of your company. You want them to think of you as a person and as a leader and how you're leading people that have the same philosophy and values that are in alignment with the company that you represent. Does that make sense?Beth:Oh absolutely. And that is, you know, it's going on six years since being in the industry. And I feel such a shift, that it is people are joining because it's, it's not necessarily, yes, people love the products, but there's a million products we could all love. But the thing that I think is so interesting is that you're given a distribution channel, right? So, if you looked at live launch as a way to create more interest, more excitement around your opportunity or product, the winning pieces, you don't have to build the website. You don't have to collect the money. You don't have to distribute the product. So, all you have to do is show up. And we did. We did this in a let's get physical challenge. You would had been so proud, like the proud coach. Because we did the exact pillars that you teach in your free content. Like you literally could watch and what is, there's one going on this, you know, timestamped now, but isn't there a way to get that content now?Kelly:Yeah, I mean anybody who wants to get in the tribe, the next one we're doing and just a couple of weeks. I mean, we do it every couple of weeks. So, you know, anybody that wants to go through that free journey and then they can come to you to help them customize that content. Right? How does this work in network marketing? Right?Beth:Right. So, it's the tribe of Unstoppables, and Kelly and I just chatted before we started is, I'm already shifting. I have the 25 women that are going through the Profit Her Way program. Now we are going to live launch every single one of them, test it, see it for either opportunity, because I have a big travel group in there, so we just literally just wrote up the travel. We have a lot of health and wellness and so I'm so excited. Because my brain, I've started since working with you, every time someone is talking, I'll think, oh they should live launch that. Oh, they should…Kelly:It's so funny, because now I get phone calls and texts and pictures and messages from people like every day saying like I just told this person they need a live launch. Look for them. I just told this person I need to live lunch because everyone's just realizing like Holy crap, we've been doing it the hard way. Like the tools are there for all of us. You know what I mean?Beth:The tools are there and what I love is, I watched it the first round. This is, you might not know this. I watched it the first round and then didn't jump in to really digging in and learning. And then finally it was, and this is the big piece that sets you apart besides just personable, valuable content that works by the connection, is the accountability piece, is I have someone in my inbox saying, Hey, Beth let's chat. How's it going with your live launch? Let's do this. Not just a cheerleader. I mean she cheers for me every day, but accountability, and that is a big piece that is missing and the network marketing space. So, where did you come up with this idea, that Oh, people will sign up and pay for my program and they're going to be assigned an accountability coach?Kelly:Yeah, I mean we want the Unstoppable Entrepreneur to be the best business incubator on the planet. Like I literally wake up every morning and I asked myself, how do I make this the Harvard of online business money-making? You know, I think everybody deserves to be able to have the freedom to, you know, put their family first and be financially free. And I've experienced the opposite. And then I've experienced where I am now and all I want to do so badly in my life is just bring people across that finish line, you know? So, what we realized is that it's not just about education, it's not just about information. It's not just about coaching, right? It's a coaching program. It's not just about coaching. It's also about the fact that life happens, right? We all have a lot on our plates. We all have families and other obligations.Some people work a full-time job and they're building a business. Some people are running two companies, right? You can be caring for a sick parent. You have kids at home, whatever it is. And so, we realized that if we weren't dedicated to being in your face and in your inbox saying, Hey Beth, I haven't heard from you in a week and a half, are you okay? What's going on? You know, your live launch is coming up, you know, let's make sure things are okay. Let's get you on a hot seat. It's been a while. Whatever it is. We want to make sure that that commitment on our side is as high as we expect the commitment on your side to be. And I feel like that's a lot of what's lacking in the online world. And so instead of complaining about it, we're trying to be the change that we feel will be the catalyst and making a bigger difference for people.Beth:I love it. And that was huge for me, was even doing it before the first of the year, which is exciting because now we're going to take that even further and help these women too. And one man, it's Profit Her Way. But I had to say Profit Her/His Way. We had to vote him on the Island, and he made it. So, when you think about how your life looks now, because I am all about preaching that we have to block time in our calendar for joy, for self-care, for time with our kids. Because I didn't do that in the beginning. I was literally burning the candle from both ends missing really, really, really big events. And one day I read something that said, you want your husband, your kids to remember you as holding your phone or holding their hand? So, I preach be wherever your feet are, your multimillion-dollar entrepreneur who is so, so everybody knows Kelly Roach. But the thing that I love most about you, you do not have the hustle grind mentality. So, can you talk a little bit about that shift?Kelly:Yeah, definitely. I mean I think coming from fortune 500 I've already experienced that burnout. I always say I feel like I lived a whole life in my twenties before I moved over, because I had such a high level of responsibility that I learned so much so quickly, and I feel like that really informed my decisions and my path when I started in the entrepreneurial world. And I joke all the time because people will be like, Oh my gosh, Kelly, you worked so hard all the time. Do you ever take a break? Do you ever take a vacation? I'm like, yes. I take seven vacations a year with my family. I take off on Fridays in the summer I'm at the pool. I feel like the difference between me and every other online entrepreneur is I don't pretend to take a vacation so that I can have a photo op and be working so that I can show that I took a vacation.When I go on vacation, I'm not on my phone, my phone is off. It is locked in the safe for the week. I am present, I am with my family. And I think that's so important, right? You have to have that downtime. You know, I go out to dinner with my family at night and I'll leave my phone at home on purpose, because I know I run two companies. If the phone is with me, there's someone that needs me, but if it's not with me it will be there, you know, when I get back. So, I think just being really intentional, we have one vessel, one body. I woke up at five this morning, I did not want to work out and I was down there doing my little workout video, you know, getting ready for the day because I knew I'm going to be going hard and going straight through for you know, 10, 15 hours.But it's those really conscious decisions about, you know, what do you want your life to look like? And I know for me, I want to make sure that when Madison is like graduating high school, going into college, getting married, like I want to be in great physical form. I want to be in really good energy. I want to be in a healthy mental state. And so, I'm thinking 15 years, Madison’s five, just for everybody. You know, I'm thinking five and 15 years down the road, and I'm making my decisions today based on the person that I want to be when that time comes. And I think it's really important that as entrepreneurs we're thinking that way because it will take everything from you, entrepreneurship and building a business, because you care so deeply, because it is your passion. It will take everything that you give. So, unless you learn to set real hard boundaries for yourself and have a high level of discipline around that, you will always succumb to that. So, it's a learning that I think we all go through. But I think it's one of the most important things that you can learn as an entrepreneur, because your energy is everything, right? And you can't fake energy. Like you can try to show up in a certain way. People see right through it.Beth:It's that whole vibration they sense the energy. So, I always like to end the podcast with one question and you guys, I gave her no pregame session here. So, everything like, learning that travel piece hot seat is, and this is the piece that is a big mystery for many. And I know that you work so hard and you help us so much, with not only the strategies, the tools, but also what really has to happen between desire, belief and commitment. So, many of the people invest in your program and you will see some do $100,000 launch and some just not take that action. It's just always something. They have the desire. At one point they had the belief, what separates the people that in network marketing, I see it too. I'm all in. I'm all in. And there are some that do and some that don't. What is your belief about that?Kelly:Yeah. And it's so tough. I mean, we could do a whole show on this, but I'll give you a couple things. You know, number one, it's total ownership, right? You either believe that everything is happening to you or you believe that everything's happening for you. Amen. And that is it. Period. End of story. I mean, I am in an of the belief that we are wholly and completely responsible for everything that is or isn't in our lives. And the actions that we take every single day are the outcomes that we create, right? And I think when you have that mindset, you couldn't possibly not get up in the morning. And do the work because everything is possible, but also everything is, is up for grabs. Like you, you can't expect it if you aren't working. Right? So, I think that that ownership piece is huge.But I think the second piece is people that are called to something bigger than themselves, right? Because I think that it's enough to drive short term behaviors when you want to, you know, get the next payday, you want to get the next client, you want to, you know, pay your mortgage for the month. Like that's one thing, right? And, there is a hierarchy of needs. Like we all start down at the bottom of the hierarchy. But to show up consistently every single day, you have to be fighting for something bigger than yourself. Whether it's your family, whether it's your legacy, whether it's the people that you want to impact, the causes that you care about, you know, whatever it is, there has to be something bigger than you that you're working towards and fighting for. And that way on the days when you don't feel like showing up and the days where you don't feel good or you don't want to get on camera or whatever it is, you have something that's like, now you got to keep going, right?There's something you're doing it for. So, you know, it's always so cliché because people always say you have to find your why, and like I hate that advice because I feel like it gets twisted and manipulated a lot. But at the end of the day, you do need to know that why? Like my family is my everything, right? Like I make every decision with family first. And so, like when I got up this morning and I was thinking about working out, I wasn't thinking about myself. I was thinking about how am I going to feel after working for 10 hours when Madison gets home from school today and what person am I going to be? And I know I'm going to be a better, happier version of myself if I work out this morning. Right? So, it's like something bigger than you even in the little thing.Beth:I love that. I love that. And it wasn't until that I pushed the beyond, that the money piece, the financial freedom and knowing what foundation I wanted to build, and what my bigger mission and larger mission and we'll, we're going to add yours in the show notes so people can read about the work that you're doing. That's way beyond how much, you know, being a multimillion-dollar entrepreneur. We'll add that for people to see. And also, one more time, because you have so much free content that network marketers can apply to, and we're going to rewrite it for you guys. Don't worry. It's coming. We're going to rewrite how you can look at your recruiting, how you can look at your product sales using the live launch method. I've just decided, I'm like looking at my blank whiteboard. It's going there. And so, explain again how to find you, how to find the unstoppable entrepreneurs. Well, it's the tribe of Unstoppables that is the free group, right?Kelly:Definitely. So, yeah, I mean, you guys can just go onto Facebook and search Tribal Unstoppables, we usually run the free workshop like once every six weeks. My recommendation for everyone listening is come through our next round and then immediately go to Beth and be like, help me make this work for network marketing. Right? And I think if you bring those two things together, and I know with what Beth has up her sleeve, she's going to be changing the face of how you guys launch. So, I'm very excited to see where that goes and where you arrive. But yeah, of course we would welcome anyone into the tribe. And you know, I'm excited, I think there's a massive opportunity for, you know, I always say, I know we're wrapping up, but I just want to make one comment before we wrap. I always say that if kids, as soon as they became a working age, were educated about the opportunity of network marketing, we'd have no homeless people. We'd not have no jobless people, we'd have no one that is graduating college with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. The opportunity in network marketing is unbelievable. And kudos to all of you guys that are listening to the show. They're taking that and bringing it out into the world because it really can change so many lives and makes such a huge difference for people.Beth:I love, I love that. And I always say too, it's the best training to become an entrepreneur because you get to learn about building community culture, marketing lives, money, though the energy…we have so many topics. We're going to have to have a part two.Kelly:I know…We'll have to set that up.Beth:So as soon as we get the live launch, I've got three that I think that we can get that ready to go. I'm going to check back with you because we could do some really fun things together on helping network marketers with that live launch method. So, I'm excited. Thank you, Kelly, for being on today.Kelly:Thank you so much for having me.Beth:Well that's a wrap and thank you so much for being with us today! Is Kelly not the most extraordinary human? I love hearing her speak. I wish I could just stay with her all day and climb inside of that brilliant brain of hers. So what we talked about today in the live launch method; using it to grow your network marketing business. This is one of our big pieces, our big modules and Profit Her Way, which is teaching you to build a business you love, that doesn't steal all of your time and joy, but gives you your own marketing, your own profit plan. This is my six month mastermind and doors are open. If you want more information, please go to bethholdengraves.com/profit. Thanks so much for being with us today, and as always be you bravely.Thanks so much for hanging with me today on the podcast and remember, you can create what you crave. If you're looking for a supportive sisterhood, I would love to see you over in our free Facebook group. As most of you know, I love camp. It's part of, 'You're Not the Boss of Me' because when we're building this thing, we're doing this thing. We need a supportive sisterhood and I also crave more fun and more connection. Join us at camp over in the Facebook world, thecampelevategroup.com or just click on the link above and we will see you around our campfire and help you to create what you crave.  

Learn More About The Content Discussed...No Boss Talk:https://nobosstalk.comMichelle Cunningham Website:https://MichelleCunninghamOnline.comMichelle’s Instagram:@directsalesmichelleThe Camp Elevate Facebook Group:hereBeth’s Instagram:@bethholdengravesBeth’s website:https://www.bethholdengraves.comProfit HER Way Course:https://www.bethholdengraves.com/profitKeynotes discussed:She's earned a six figure income consistently and led a network marketing team to over eight figures in sales, hosting home parties and Facebook parties. (01:31)I'm tired of saying I'm shy. Yes, you're shy, but don't say that to yourself. Like shy is just another word for insecure.(07:21)Then all of a sudden introvert Michelle who went from being shy to being bold is like we've got a system and it's working. So how did that look?(10:52)All I learned is change your story, make it super inspirational and then at the end give them two options.(13:14)I want to talk about owning your awesome, and that when someone owns their story, and someone has confidence, and it takes time.(16:10)When Did It Air...January 06, 2020Episode Transcript...Beth:Welcome to ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’. If you are determined to break glass ceilings and build it your way, this show is for you. I’m your host Beth Graves and I am obsessed with helping you to not just dream it, but make the plan, connect the dots and create what you crave. Are you ready? Let’s get started.Hello. Hello and welcome to episode number 19. And Happy New Year, If you're listening to this in real time. So today I am so excited because I have been stalking Michelle Cunningham. She is my guest and you are going to love her Own Your Awesome. And you will walk away, literally fired up like pulling your car over to the side of the road and getting started taking action after this podcast. So let me tell you a little bit about Michelle and then we'll bring her on. She teaches network marketers around the world to successfully build their business through Facebook parties, home parties, and using the power of video. So after you see this wonder woman on YouTube, you are going to see the power and the impact. She's called the queen of video branding for direct sellers and teaches you to Own Your Awesome to have a massive impact for success. She's been involved in the industry for 16 years. She's earned a six figure income consistently and led a network marketing team to over eight figures in sales, hosting home parties and Facebook parties. So she's playful. She's on YouTube. She's so much fun. She's made an impact with thousands and thousands and thousands of network marketers. And so here she is. Let's talk to Michelle Cunningham.So, Hey everyone. I am so excited because I have been stalking. She's my new best friend. She doesn't know it yet. I sent her like a half a heart necklace. Her name is Michelle Cunningham and I literally have been watching her for months and months and months, obsessing over her content, her energy, her YouTube channel. And so, you know, I asked for everything so I thought, I'm just going to ask Michelle, she's super famous if she would hop on this podcast to help us hear more about how she's built her business in direct sales and thousands of others with her quirky, honest, but deliberate presence on YouTube and on social media, and just being an awesome pink princess. So hello Michelle!Michelle:Hi. That was quite the introduction.Beth:Well you didn't know like I always like to admit that I'm stalking someone because it's just weird if you don't, right?Michelle:Yeah, well I stalk people too so I totally get it.Beth:I know I just, I study, I love to study success and so I know that we have some people that may not have been introduced to you yet and now they are. And I'm super excited because after meeting you and talking with you, and we're going to give you guys this offer at the end, is I'm going to do the YouTube thing this year, and I have like seriously dark videos that are sharing my sticky note challenge and you've inspired me. So can you give us a little bit of history? I know that for those of you that, you know I said it on the intro, but give us the real version. How did you get started? When did you start realizing that the video presence was really a thing to build the business? So give us the scoop. Who are you? What do you do? Yeah, all that jazz.MichelleAll right, well I'll give you the quick background because I feel like a background is really important. I grew up incredibly poor. My mom was a single mom so I came from very little. I had two brothers and myself and everything I've ever had for in life I've had to pay for on my own. And so I grew up always wanting to be like the kids who just had like Pantene shampoo and fresh apples. So just to put it in perspective, like where I live now and what my life is like is not what I grew up as. And so I'm very thankful for life, the journey. But I'm also, it's what drove me. It was realizing like, I don't want to have a moldy basement and like snakes in my basement and have a house, I'm embarrassed by. I want to have more and so...I went to college, paid my way through college, and then entered direct sales into my life. I got my first job as a pharmaceutical sales rep and then I landed at an event, and it was a direct sales event. My coworker's wife invited me and I'm there in this hotel room, the holiday Inn, and there's a lady in the room claiming to make six figures. Another one's a millionaire, another one's driving a free car. And I'm like, dude, this is either a fantastic opportunity or this is a scam. So I went home and I told my mom at 23 years old, and she goes, Oh yeah, honey, a hundred percent scam. Do not get involved. I was not doing it. And then a week later I remembered that I was 23 and at 23 you don't listen to your mom. So I signed up anyway. And that was 16 years ago, 17 years ago.And so when I joined, there was no text message. There was no Facebook. And so they said, how you're going to build your business, honey, 23 year old, you're going to go up to strangers in parking lots, and like, Oh, that's horrifying. People doing that. Like I'm an introvert, I don't like to bother you. I don't like to be in people's way. It's just who I am. I want everyone to like me. That's just my personality, right? So the idea of approaching a stranger and having them yell at me was like my worst nightmare. And so I, for the next six years, did not tell anyone. I was involved in network marketing like for six years. But in that six years I studied it. I looked up ideas, I ordered my full inventory, I was ready to go, but I did nothing for six years. I think I held like a party or two.Beth:Wait, wait, wait, wait. I gotta repeat that. You guys six years of studying. And so many people are like, Oh, I just, I mean I was that person, Michelle, that I bought every kit, signed up for a billion things and didn't study, didn't do a thing until, you know, when I launched the current business that I'm in. But I didn't know it was six years. What made you keep holding on?Michelle:Yeah, it's just a fantastic part of the story. And it always, when I'm sharing in front of an audience, they're like, you gave me hope. Because I've been, you know, 5 years, I haven't started. I'm like, Oh you're fine, you're actually ahead of me. So for six years I loved the dream of it, but I was too shy and too nervous to approach people, you know? And I was like, but I loved it. But I was like, but I can't. And so it was self talk, this negative self talk that I had, that I don't want to bother people. I don't want to, you know. And, in that six years I tried, it's not like I did nothing. It's like I'd study an idea and then I call my recruiter. I'm like, maybe let's do your mall thing. You said we could do a scavenger hunt.Then we'd go do the mall thing. And so we'd go up to people and I actually met a lady who said, Oh my gosh, your sell for that company? I would love to host a party with you. And I'm like, really? Okay. But I got home and I was too nervous to call her. Talk about, this is not going to work. And I called her the day before the party to confirm because I was nervous. But she was like, I never heard from you. What would make you think I am going to host a party with you? And I was like, you're right. Okay, bye. So little like mouse Michelle. One day I made a decision at 29 I was fed up enough with my corporate job and I think that's when you see someone make a big change where I was like, you know what, I'm tired of being a mouse.I'm tired of saying I'm shy. Yes, you're shy, but don't say that to yourself. Like shy is just another word for insecure. There's all of these things. I was telling myself they were not serving me and I thought, you know what? What makes me different from that girl over there that's wildly confident? She just acts confident. Why don't I just start doing that? Why don't I just like stop caring and let's just like do this? Because I just made that very conscious decision. And it was January, 2009 yeah, 2009, and I went online and I found someone that worked for the company that I had signed up with. She was not my recruiter, but they have a we'll help you no matter what thing. So she, when I met her, what was amazing about this lady is, she changed my life forever because when I met her, she's 4ft 11in, tiny. She wears short, spiky hair. She doesn't wear a ton of makeup. She's not loud. She's not bold. She's not crazy. She suffers from social anxiety disorder. She fainted at her first home party.Yes, And over three weeks. Yeah. You're like, that doesn't sound like a good mentor. But see, she earned over $3 million in her career and was driving the top level car. And I was like, Oh, okay, so you're a little broken. I'm a little broken. If you can do this, maybe I could do this. And so it was in meeting her, then I met someone that wasn't perfect. Sometimes you meet people in this industry and they're perfect and they talk perfect and they smile and perfect and you're like, that's scary and weird. So she was normal. And so she taught me her system. She said, if you don't want to call people then just text people, you know, just do whatever it's going to work for you. Just find a way. And I was like, wait, I can do that. And so I actually started texting people, in that first month I made $1,000 not knowing what I was doing.Six months later, I made over $5,000, built a team of 50. A few months after that I had earned a car. That month I earned another free insurance, and then earned another car a few months later. And then four years later I learned a system that taught me how to recruit like crazy. And I taught that to my team and we went from a hundred people on my team to over a thousand and it changed my life forever. We became an eight figure sales team. My team did over eight figures in sales and just crazy, crazy. But it's just crazy to think that for that long I struggled, but it was just one day to saying, you know what? I'm fed up enough. We're just going to like make this work. Yeah. So that was the beginning.Beth:Well, and okay, a couple of things that I love is, you notice that she wasn't perfect and I think that that just like made my face light up. Even though we're on a podcast, you can't see it, because that's what I think that vulnerability of you on video is. You're the real deal in showing up and saying, we may not be perfect. And I say that all the time, is like I built my business with sticky notes because I couldn't figure out how to use the Excel spreadsheet, and I've got like, my drunk uncle was driving me around when I was trying to use systems. And you also said find what works for you but have some way that you are booking, like in your case, booking the parties, booking the shows, booking the online events. So you said something to that. I know everyone was like yeah, pulling over to the side of the road, getting out their notes on their phone. You said you developed a system that worked for your team. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because that's a Renegade. You are in a company that had been around forever, like the beginning of time. Everyone knew that person that had earned that car in town and then all of a sudden introvert Michelle who went from being shy to being bold is like we've got a system and it's working. So how did that look? Can you share a little bit of what that time looked like? And what you guys all did?Michelle:Absolutely. So that fourth year I had been sitting at a team of about a hundred. I was pretty consistently making about $5,000 a month and I heard a speaker that year that said, or at an event. And the one thing that I took away, she said, Hey guys, I believe that while you're on this earth you should make as much money as humanly possible. And I was like, wait, where's she gonna go with this? I don't know if that, you know, the the poor girl in me. It was like, I don't want to, I don't know if I want to hear this...because I believe that you should live completely debt free. And I was like, okay, I can get on board with that. And then I also believe you should have tons of savings for your future. I said okay, I like that you said. And I then believe you should live below your means.I do. I like to shop at target and resale shop. And you should give back frequently, generously, and anonymously. And that last line of frequently, generously and anonymously, I said to myself, Michelle, you need to step up your game. You could be helping so many more people right now. You have enough to provide for you and your family. How many more humans could you help if you decide to step up your game because the fact that you got to where you are, what if we did that same amount of crazy work like over and over and over again. And I thought, Hmm, I need it. I need to find something. And it was like a God thing. I was on Facebook that night and this cute little blonde appeared on my screen and it was a Facebook ad and she was just pretty, I just clicked on her and I said, let me see what she's all about, cute little blonde thing. And it was Sarah Robbins from Rodan and Fields, the number one seller for Rodan and Fields, and she's making like $1 million a month. I mean, it's just like something, or million dollars. I don't, it's something so insane that you're like, okay, let me learn from you a little human. So I clicked on that.Beth:I love, Love you to learn from you little human. I love it.Michelle:Yes literally, because she was just a little thumbnail is what I mean. She was a little person on my screen. I clicked on the little human and I ordered her book, which is How to Rock Your Network Marketing Business.Beth:That was my first book! I bought too! Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Yeah, that's it. It's tattered and it's highlighted and every, yes, yes, yes. Okay, keep going. I love it.Michelle:So I read the book and all I learned, you don't have to go read the book, I'll just tell you what it is. All I learned is change your story, make it super inspirational and then at the end give them two options. You can join my team today, if you decide not to do that, you can take home products. Those were two things I was missing. I was missing the inspirational story. I had a ho hum story. It was kind of inspirational but not really. So I changed my story to be like, I was the number one person in all of my company. I Owned My Awesome. So I made it like I was in a play with this amazing story and I'm glad to share it if you wanna hear how I roll it out. But yeah, that story. And then at the end I said option one, join my team.Oh, and that's the best deal of all. And then if you decide not to do that, you can take home products. And I usually was just selling product, product, product. And then after I would invite them to meet for coffee after they liked the product. This whole long three week process, which sort of was effective, but I was like, wait, if I could sign people up on the spot. And so I rolled this out for the first time in March, 2000 and gosh, I don't remember what year. But it was, I don't know, six years ago. And I roll this out and my first appointment, I had a lady over to my house, tried the product, I did my arrogance story at the beginning and it was, it was like arrogant, but I was doing what I was reading in the book and I had practiced it all day. And at the end she goes, okay. And I give her options. She goes, okay, so here's what I've decided. I'd like to join your team and I'd like to buy the whole skin care system.And I was like, ah, what the heck just happened? I'm like, that's not definitely supposed to happen. I'm like, you do want it? Yeah. And in my head I'm like, just Michelle, write it up, sign her up, sell her the thing, just do it. So I do. And she goes home inspired, which is what was different. She went home inspired and she told her husband about this inspirational woman that lived a few towns over that was on fire. It was, you know, changing your life. And the next day she called, my husband wants me to get the whole package. He wants me to get started now, because he was inspired. I had never had someone do that before. And it was in that moment that I believe like God was knocking on my head like Michelle, do more of that be loud, because by you being loud and you being proud, you can impact people's lives, you can change their financial situation.And so I had to stop being introverted Michelle and say, okay, I need to be awesome because by me being awesome, I can impact lives. And so the next lady came over that day with her husband and at the end her husband goes, yeah, you should just sign up. And so she joined my team that month. Following that system, I recruited 22 reps personally and my team followed the same system and they recruited another 20. So in one month we brought in 42 new reps to my team, of like a hundred, that's sitting at a hundred for four years. And I was like, that was awesome. Let's do that again. And so we did, we did it again, did it again. And that year I earned the top level car. We had five people become the top 1% of the company. I mean everything changed, right? I went to London that year. I mean just everything, massive movement because of a tiny little shift Owning Our Awesome lead with the opportunity to default to the products. It was such a simple idea. Yet it made such an impact.Beth:I was like, I have chills because so many times that I want to talk about Owning Your Awesome. And that when someone owns their story, and someone has confidence, and it takes time. Those of you that are listening today and you're thinking, but I haven't had the success yet. I don't have that voice that Michelle has or that Beth has. You can be that person, and there's visualization, and seeing yourself on that stage, and there's creating that story that allows you to Own Your Awesome. So I think you might be able to walk us through, if someone wants to walk away from this podcast and Own They're Awesome, and they're being coached by you. what would you tell them?Michelle:I would say to them, and I said this in my group the other day. I said, guys, what is the most you've ever sold at one party or in one day? What is the dollar amount? One girl wrote $1600 and another girl wrote $300 another girl wrote $800, and I said, do you have any idea that the average person out there, that an extra $200 a month would dramatically change their financial situation? Like do you have any idea? And the fact that you can host the party or you can be in front of humans and then two hours of your time you can make $200? That is mind blowing to most humans. That is literally mind blowing. And so if you have a story like that, like in the chat when I shared this, girls were like, Oh yeah, I made $800 in two hours. I'm like, you should be at the every appointment. Yeah, like hanging from the roof, swinging on a Tarzan rope saying, guys, I'm a big deal!I made $800 dollars, I made $400 in two hours. Whatever it is, that is such a huge story. And so putting that dollar amount into your story can make such a huge impact and can really inspire someone. So I always tell people, throw a dollar amount in there. What did you do in a two hour time span or in a day time span, one week I made this money, whatever it is, put your marketing hat on. And you know, as women, we're taught to not be arrogant, but I would say, no, no, this is Owning Your Awesome, and this is going to change lives. So put that away, the arrogance part of it and just Own Your Awesome and share those stories.Beth:And I just had this vision, because I've talked Michelle into being at real life camp. We're going to have a Tarzan rope and we are going to do an Own Your Awesome activity. We're swinging from the rope. I mean I think we should have one in our offices. I love it. Okay. So we're at this point of your business, you're teaching women to own their stories, to lead with the business, to really be real about what's happening in the direct selling network marketing industry. And that was what I needed to know for me to finally say yes and go all in what was possible and why not me? So you've got this team and you're rolling and a lot of what you were doing because of your business was a party plan business. And then you transitioned to a lot of online coaching, training and parties.Can you talk about that transition for those people that might not have the opportunity? And I always, I want to preface this, you guys, you always have the opportunity to be in a person's living room. And I know that we see a lot of things that say, build online. Never leave your house, never talk to your neighbor. But I will always tell you to earn multiple seven figures. I was willing, I wanted to be connecting with that neighbor because I know that in person and online sharing what Michelle just shared, swinging from the Tarzan rope, changing lives is in person. It's online, it's everywhere. If you are passionate, right Michelle?Michelle:It's 100%, and I built so much in my business in person, you know, then I did transition. I did a lot online. I had a lot of success online. But I, most of my clients, all that reorder from, it's all mostly in person. Yes I do get people that find me on YouTube and stuff like that. But it started, and I yes, I 100% agree with you in person. So great. And it's so good for introverts like me to be in front of people because if I'm not in front of people, I find for me it's like a muscle, I can get just quiet and not really want to be around people. And so for me, I kind of force myself to be in front of people to learn human interaction. Because I just sometimes, I just want to be home. I just want to do my thing. So getting out and challenging yourself will make you a more confident person. That's what I found and it brought me success.Beth:Well and I say to people, if I told you that your income would double, triple, that you would impact your family's life, be able to impact the lives of others because you were willing to go to that event, to go and meet with that one person. I remember early in my career, we had had a tough summer and I was tired and I was supposed to get on an airplane and go to Vegas and there was a team growing there and I made it. I think that was when I saw a rising leader, I would get on an airplane and go and meet that person in person, meet their friends, help with the event. It was an investment I was willing to make and I almost canceled this event. I thought, Ugh, I don't really want to fly that. And then my husband said, they are responsible for the money that you're making, your personal actions are, but this team is waiting for you.And I have to say, Michelle, I heard a story at that event from one of the promoters on my team and I journaled about it. And it was how the product had helped her overcome grief. And she shared with me how much she wanted to tell me that in person. And I literally said, I will never miss the opportunity to be in front of people. And it has been what drives me. So let's fast forward, because we're now quite a few years later and now you're this YouTube sensation. You've got this following that is like crazy cult like. You needed to get your systems into the hands of many. You are called to do that. So how did it go from your team to worldwide people just finding you and saying, Michelle, give me what you've got. How did you make that transition and how does your business look today?Michelle:So, it's such a great question because it wasn't ever my intention. I believe that God had a hand in this. Like there's no other good explanation and you know, depending on what your beliefs are, the universe whatever. But literally, six years ago, as an introvert, I said I'm going to start a YouTube channel. Why? Because at that time I was a little bored with my business. So you know how you have a month where you're like, I just feel bored. What can I do in my spare time? I was bored. My son was like three, so I wasn't exhausted and I think it was pregnant, like I'm going to start a little YouTube channel. Or maybe it was right before I started to get pregnant with the next one. And so I have a little, you know, I had downtime, and I don't like downtime.I don't like to watch movies. I get bored, I like to work. And so I'll start a YouTube channel, I'll just make a video. And initially I was like, I don't know what I'll make it about. Maybe I'll make it about organizing. And they made a few videos. That channel still exists. It has 900 followers. I made eight videos about organizing. It's the stupidest videos ever because I don't like organizing, not like I have a very organized office, but my house, you know it's not. So it was funny though, I was making that channel and it stressed me out cause I had to clean before I filmed, and then I was like this isn't my jam. And then one day I was like, but I really like to talk about network marketing and direct sales. Why don't I just do that?Until I started to put out what I was doing. I was just sharing my tips and I could not believe it, but people were like messaging me at 3:00 AM in the morning, and my inbox saying, Michelle, your video just totally changed my life. It changed my business. I love you forever. Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. Do you have more stuff? And I was like, I'll make more videos, I'll make some more. And I just literally for six years, I just kept putting out new videos. I tried to aim for once a week putting out a video, and that was my goal, and I didn't always hit it. I mean, you know, it was sometimes two weeks or three weeks, but I just tried to put out content. Okay. I did not think anything else beyond that. Never thought it would ever turn into else. Well, crazy.But I got a call from a company, they said, Hey Michelle, we found you on YouTube. Can you come and train our sales force or a brand new startup network marketing company? I was like, Whoa, that's awesome. And I was like, sure. And they're like, how much is your fee? I said to my husband, how much? He's like, just say something outrageous. I'm like, well, I wouldn't go there for, I'll say $2,500.00. He's like, yeah, just say that. I said that. And they said, sure. And I was like, Oh, my word, this is awesome. Right? So, say that, go and speak to the company. And a few weeks before I go, they said, Michelle, do you have any training materials? We'd like to purchase your training materials? And I was like, purchase, like I just do free training.What's this purchase stuff? Okay, yeah, I'll make a CD. So I literally went into my son's bedroom. I don't know why, that's where I recorded it. I just remember it must have been quiet in there. But I recorded my first training. It was how to generate leads and then I recorded another one, how to host a home party, how to recruit like crazy, all my secrets on three CDs and I had some artwork made and I got a thousand of them printed. And those have gone on to sell. I think 7,000 of the lead generation have been sold, you know, just crazy numbers. But it all started with that little thing and I was like, Oh, I could sell something. That's interesting. And so then, this January I decided to start running Facebook ads. I was like, maybe these could help more people.So I started to run Facebook ads and then we started to sell like a really lot of them and I was like, well maybe I could make a course. So this new business of mine just kind of started this year where it was like half CDs, but maybe I'll do some courses. So you know, I host Facebook live parties. My first one I ever hosted, we recruited 20 people in 45 minutes and we sold over $20,000 as a team. And everyone was asking me how I did that. I said, I'll make a little course about it called Mastering the LIVES. I made this course and put it out there. And I realized at that moment that when that course launched, I realized that God had said to me, Michelle, your calls are your next level, like I know that I gave you the success in network marketing but now you are called to something bigger.And I like pushed back for 10 months. I did. I said, you know what? No, I'm just, I'll just keep doing both. And I was doing both and trying to manage team and then building courses and, and it was a lot, but I just was like, no, I would go into the top of network marketing. That's what I'm doing. And he's like, but you don't understand. I've given you like literally seven times the income than this other thing. What are you doing? And so I had to honor that and say, you know what? I think you're right. I think I love training people. I love making videos. I love changing lives. I just want to do that. And I have literally like, that's all I want to do. And I made the very difficult decision to leave a team of a thousand reps, eight figures, sales team.Like, I mean, people are like, have you lost your mind? I'm like, well no. I mean it sounds silly that you would leave something this big, but I grew something that was infinitely bigger that required less of my energy. That 100% filled my cup. Yeah. And brought me 100% joy. And I live a life now that I'm like, this is my dream. I'm with my kids all the time. I make videos, I change lives and I absolutely love it and I never thought any of that would happen. But I will tell you, I have, I talked about this with Beth and she'll reveal, but I've got something coming out that reveals how I use video, and not knowing, I just did it to be nice. But that video changed my life forever, and my financial situation forever. And I now am so passionate about showing other people the power of video. You just put out free content, you help people and you accidentally make a following. It was all an accident, but it was a pretty awesome accident that happened to me and I want to show people how to accidentally do what I've done because it's awesome.Beth: I love it. And so when I look back at give back frequently, generously, and anonymously, you are not, you know, God's knocking on your head saying, look, we need to impact more people so that we can make this, not just you giving back in big ways, but teaching others to give back in big ways. The other thing I love Michelle is, you went to the top, you learned to lead, you learned what the frustration was of your people. So that, as a mentor and a coach, like you waited to coach until you had basically done it all and said, okay, I'm called to do more to impact more. And you did show up in my feed on a Facebook ad and I saw the pink office of yours. And I was like, who is this? Who is this? She's so darn cute. Who is this little person? I need to learn from her! Who is this little human? And there's so many ways that our lives run parallel. And so I'm really, really excited. Two, I'm diving in to your video launch course. We're going to put in the show notes, and what is it called again? What's the specific name of it?Michelle:It's called video creator classroom. Yes. And there's also a Facebook group.Beth:So I'm all in because one of the things entrepreneurial add that I have is, Oh, I'll start a YouTube channel. Oh, I'll do this. Oh, I'll do that. So I'm saying it here, because then people will hold me to it. That my commitment is to go all in with podcast content and YouTube content. So I'm all in, I can't wait to get started on the content and I'm following directions. I'm not doing it my way. I'm going to learn from the best. And I hope those of you listening, I can understand that free content. I have people even with my YouTube channel that will grow this year, but I made a tiny little video before we even knew how to turn our phones or have ring lights. And that one video has so many views. And I've recruited many people who have reached out to me to say, Hey, could I join your team? And I was like, what? Like out of the blue, right? You get these messages. So imagine that content that we find. So it's free, right? It's free to be on YouTube.Michelle:It's free. I had a girl, and I forgot to share this, she found me online and joined my team and added over 700 people to my downline. 700 people. And so yeah, those were the things as it was making the channel, I was like, wait, this is awesome. So you know that was happening. I was like, I can't believe this is happening. So the blessings that came from the videos, I mean there's no way my team would have grown to the size it did without her and without a few hundred people in it found me online.Beth:So this power of YouTube brings you high quality leads. and the lesson I'm taking away is do it before you feel ready. Going into your son's room, making that CD back in the CD days and saying yes before you had a perfect presentation. And then that shift that was like, you know what, I need to impact more people and I need to get out of my comfort zone and build a life for my family and for the legacy. I love those pieces. So we're going to close with one question and those of you that want to join us in this course, it is going to be Epic. I'm telling you. And we're going to give you a link below that you can get in because it's pretty new, right Michelle? This is like the first group, brand new.Michelle:Yep. So we had our pilot group go through it, and it is so great. It's just fantastic and people are just loving it and life changing things happening. So exciting. So, so yes, now the pilot groups run through it. It's ready to launch. So it's gonna launch in the next few weeks here. We're just getting all the emails ready and everything. But yeah, it's going to be fantastic.Beth:I love it. And where else? Tell them how to find you on YouTube. Find you on Instagram, Facebook, all the good things. Where do we find you? And then I have one big question to close with, so don't get nervous.Michelle:Okay, got it. So @directsalesmichelle is me on YouTube and on Instagram. And MichelleCunningham.com is my website. I just got my full name. I was so excited.Beth:That's really exciting. Did you wait a long time for your name or did you have to negotiate it? Okay.Michelle:Someone owned it. There was a girl that was a stripper that owned it to be totally honest, and I know, and then I called Wix a few weeks ago and they're like, ma'am, your name is available. I'm like, no, a stripper owns it. He goes, no, no, it's available. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, I have it for $600 or $700. I'm like, well, I kind of want that. I'm like, you think I can get a deal? And anyway, the stripper didn't give me a deal, but yeah, it doesn't matter. I got my name now.Beth:So a stripper owned your YouTube chat, I mean your website.Michelle:Yeah. Oh yeah. So I own Michelle Cunningham online, and then now I have Michelle Cunningham, but I haven't transferred everything over. But Michelle Cunningham redirects you to Michelle Cunningham online.Beth:I love it. I love it. Okay, here is your question. For people listening today that are ready, that need to take an action there where you were during those years of sitting around thinking, yeah, one day, maybe I'll do it. Still doing what they're not loving that they're doing. What are three things that after they finish their workout because we're in their ears or we're in the car. Three things that you can tell them to do today that will lead them to do that success that you are speaking of. Getting to the top of the company, doing all the things, having the freedom?Michelle:So three things. Number one, I would set a schedule, my life dramatically changed and I said, you know what, I'm going to hold appointments Friday at 6:00PM, 8:00PM and Saturday at 10, 12 and 2. I set a schedule and that was it. Those are the little windows that I worked, but that made such a huge impact. I got so much done in the Friday, Saturday that I worked my business. I booked appointments all during the week, but I knew on Friday and Saturday that's when I got dressed, got out of the house, did my thing. So that's number one. Set a schedule and make it. I used to do Tuesday afternoon, Friday mornings, Sunday, Thursday. And my family is like, are you going to be home today? Like no one knew anything. So when they finally knew every Friday, mommy's busy, every Saturday, mommy's busy.There was so much harmony that brought to our family. Number two, I would say positive affirmations all day long. I think as women we just are always overthinking things. So I think fill your cup with things that motivate you. I like to watch crazy people online. Gary Van Der Chuck, he swears a lot, but I do like his message. And so finding people online that have a powerful message. The Tony Robbins of the world, the Sarah Robbins, the really motivational people out there. Follow those people and absorb what they say. And my last tip would be run your own race. Run your own race. Don't look left or right. I think that when you think about what other people are doing and you're worried about what they're doing, it doesn't matter. They're on their own train track. You're on your own train track and your train track is moving. Your train is moving on your track at the rate it's supposed to move and you can make it move faster.But it doesn't matter what people do to the left or right of you. And that includes the people on your team. One person cannot dictate your success. Other people's trains have taken a break and they're having a snack somewhere. That's just fine. You keep your train moving. And so I always stayed in a very happy state because I personally worked my business and I didn't look left or right. I'm so disconnected to the world like, you know what's going on in the world. I don't watch the news, I don't watch other people and I just do my thing because I'm out here just Owning My Awesome. And I recommend the same for you because you can't really think when you don't know anything. It's great.Beth:Okay, the name of this podcast episode will be, Own Your Awesome with Michelle Cunningham. I have notes covering my desk. Michelle. This connection is so amazing because I know that, I already decided we're friends forever. Okay?Michelle:Done. When am I getting my necklace? I want to get the hat. It's actually really funny. That would actually be really fun. I totally feel the same connection to you. So like I want you to know, it's not like you're the weird friend that just likes me. I feel the same way. I also, I'm feeling like, my new best friend. I totally love her. So we're still on the same page and you're such a rock star, and you're so amazing in all that you do. And I just commend you and I am really, I've got to learn about podcasting from you because I want to start one and I've been dragging my feet a little, so it'll be good.Beth:I'll teach you podcasting. It's been such a great connection and so I want to challenge you guys to...I'm just, I'm going to go over, set a schedule positive affirmations and run your own race and just get started. Michelle is a perfect example. Before she was ready, before she had a plan, before she had the perfect pink office. But you guys are gonna be so jealous of the pink office and just do it. Get yourself started and ready and put out the free content and Own Your Awesome. Thank you Michelle. And we'll catch you guys all next week on You're Not the Boss of Me.Oh my goodness. How awesome. How awesome was Michelle today you guys? So let me just ask you to do this for me. Let's get some Instagram love today. So please screenshot this and tag us both @bethholdengrades and @directsalesmichelle and let us know that you loved this episode today. Also, there is still time. This is so exciting that ProfitHER Way is launching this month. We have so much to do and preparing your profit plan, helping you to make money your way. So go ahead and go over to bethholdengraves.com/profit if you are ready to be a part of a powerful mastermind and getting your plan in place for 2020. And as always, I'll see you over at Camp Elevate.Thanks so much for hanging with me today on the podcast and remember, you can create what you crave. If you're looking for a supportive sisterhood, I would love to see you over in our free Facebook group. As most of you know, I love camp. It's part of, 'You're Not the Boss of Me' because when we're building this thing, we're doing this thing. We need a supportive sisterhood and I also crave more fun and more connection. Join us at camp over in the Facebook world, thecampelevategroup.com or just click on the link above and we will see you around our campfire and help you to create what you crave.

Learn More About The Content Discussed...No Boss Talk:https://nobosstalk.comTop Summit: https://www.thetopsummit.comInstagram: https://instagram.comThe Camp Elevate Facebook Group:hereBeth’s Instagram:@bethholdengravesBeth’s website:https://www.bethholdengraves.comProfit HER Way Course:https://www.bethholdengraves.com/profitKeynotes discussed:Why did I choose Network Marketing? Honestly, because of time freedom and if you know me, I'm a big jolly fellow who likes to help people. (01:55)It takes you getting out of your comfort zone and actually reaching out to people, and getting to know people, and asking people questions and telling people about yourself.(04:11)I did not get to be an almost multiple seven figure earner by not having conversations with people.(06:04)If you're listening and you're going into 2020 you're looking at your goals from 2019 and I want you to first of all, listeners, have some gratitude for what you have done. (10:14)It helps them really stay energized and the comradery and it fills people's cups.(14:22)When Did It Air...December 23, 2019Episode Transcript:Beth:Welcome to ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’. If you are determined to break glass ceilings and build it your way, this show is for you. I’m your host Beth Graves and I am obsessed with helping you to not just dream it, but make the plan, connect the dots and create what you crave. Are you ready? Let’s get started.All right, so I am so excited to have Santa Claus on the podcast today. I'm actually going to tell you who Santa is at the end, so stay with me and you'll be able to see the recording of this. Santa is at the North Pole in a full red suit, I'm not kidding you. And when you guys figure out who Santa is, actually I just got a text from Blair, I sent a screenshot of this...who is Santa? So you have to stage it, and some of you will recognize his voice. He's spoken on many stages, huge stages in the network marketing world. He is a multiple six figure earner, close to seven figures, and I'll tell you his story when we close this out. But for now, hello Santa! Oh cool. Oh my gosh. I mean you guys, what is the date that this is airing on?Let me look Santa. Okay. It is December 23rd. Oh my gosh you guys...now behind me, you will have to go over to YouTube, and I'm going to have this all over Facebook. But behind me, Santa's has his house. He has beautiful trees and wreaths. Oh my goodness. This is like my favorite podcast. So it's December 23rd and Santa...Most of the people that listen to the podcast are network marketers, or they build online businesses. I know that this might come as a surprise, that you, Santa, are involved in the network marketing industry. So why did you choose network marketing alongside your other gig?SantaI am involved in network marketing and I absolutely love network marketing. I chose network marketing because, you know, I have a little bit of free time on my off season and I figured why not help people and make an income. So I put my elves to work and we started working in network marketing. Why did I choose it? Because honestly, because of time freedom and if you know me, I'm a big jolly fellow who likes to help people. I just love everybody and I want to help people. And this industry is one of the only industries in the world that you can help people better themselves, whether it be a product or a product and an opportunity.Beth:I totally agree. So Santa's, I know that you're also live up in the North pole. So obviously building a business that just requires Wi-Fi and connecting all over social media is huge for you. And one of the the topics of today's episode is how to continue to always grow your list. And since Santa has lists and you know Santa, I gotta say you're a little, you're a little judgmental, but I'm just going to put that out there. I know you've told me I was naughty. I'm like, how are you to decide? But we're not even going to get onto that topic now it's open for discussion. I want to make sure I get a new ring light this year because mine is like all over the place and I've got other things that I really want, a Peloton. Do you think you could work that out for me?SantaYes, I think I can. You've been a very nice girl this year, so I definitely can work something out for you.Beth:Awesome. Okay, so Santa, I notice when, I'll tell you Santa's Hass, his real name over on Facebook. There's always new momentum and energy in your organization and that comes from having new conversations. And one of the biggest things, the biggest concerns that people will say to me as they get started, they get excited, they talk to their sister and their brother, they get to their warm market. They might even come out of the box and hit two ranks and then they're like, I don't have anybody else to talk to. There's so many different ways to grow the list. What are some of your best list building strategies of people that you know to have conversations with?SantaWell, for me, I'm open, right? So I'm stuck up here in the North pole. I have wifi, I have my social media platforms. Let's start with social media, right? Social media is a free platform that you can utilize to help build relationships and grow your network. It takes you getting out of your comfort zone and actually reaching out to people and getting to know people and asking people questions and telling people about yourself. In doing so, you build relationships and those relationships turn into people who want to either join you in your opportunity or take your product, depending on what it is, you know, they'll find the groove with you. But first things first is you have to be open to trying to connect with people and talk to people. And me being so far away from everybody up here in the North pole, it's easier for me to do it on social media.But from time to time when I fly over to the grocery store, I also put my head up, look around and smile at people, introduce myself, talk to people, be polite. I can't tell people this enough. For me personally, I have a product that I absolutely love and believe it and I love sharing my experience because it's helped me. In the past four years, it's helped me so much be a better person, feel better. It's given me opportunities that I could only dream of. But I go to the grocery store for a gallon of milk and Mrs. Clause is like, where'd you go? You've been gone for two hours. Did you milk the cow? Like no, I was talking to people. You never know who you meet.Beth:Yeah. This is a little bit of a trend. And I feel like Santa, when people start to, and you're hearing from someone, you guys I know that you're like, yeah, right Santa. Well this Santa has built an incredible business by having conversations all the time. Connection, serving, and then I see these new ways like, and I'm always up on what's innovative and using Facebook stories to grow your lead list and all of those things. But I will for the rest of my life say it. I did not get to be an almost multiple seven figure earner by not having conversations with people that were right in front of my face. And people will say, don't bother your friends and family. Never have to send them a message again. Like, what do you have to say about people that have the belief that you don't have something that your friends and family need? Like that just blows my mind.SantaYou know? I totally agree with you because here's the thing. If you're not going to help your friends and family first feel amazing, or whatever the product is that you're you have or the service. If you're not going to help your friends and family, why do it? Like for me, that's the first thing that I always go to is helping my friends and or family feel amazing. They're the first people you're going to talk to. That's what you would call your warm market because they know you, they love you, they trust you, and if you genuinely care and are really trying to benefit them and help them, it will come back to you and you will be benefited by it. It's a double win. You're helping them feel better or providing them a service that's going to make their life easier. And in return, you're building your relationship with them, getting closer to them and then not only that, you know you potentially are earning that you can turn around and help your family even more.Beth:Well, and one of the things that I watching you grow your business is that you have an all of the network marketers that I've ever seen, you have a team that has an, you guys, it's like Santa and his elves. It's like you have some of the best community and culture then I've ever seen. Like it is not just one person building a business and chatting online. Can you talk about how your team has built this community and this culture? I mean it's, I'm so envious, so envious in fact that I just like decided that I'm a part of it. I just said, Hey, they're having a pool party. Beth's on the way. Tell me how that grew?SantaYou know, we have a very different dynamic than most teams and we're really blessed to have it. We're a big extended family is what we are and we treat each other as such. From upline to downline. It's not about rank. It's not about anything. It's about really serving and helping people like a family does. I want you guys to think about your brothers or sisters. You will do anything for them within moderation. Of course, you're not going to bury a body, God forbid, but you know what I'm saying?Beth:Well, you might, you might, but you know that's another podcast.SantaBut no, seriously though, you would do anything for them. In creating a culture like that and getting people to really grow together and support each other and cheer each other on and just share moments with those people is very important to us. We're very big on events. Events is a huge thing for us. We plan a lot of events. We do a lot of events. I think the most events in one month that we did was 10 or 12, I don't remember the count. We have a team dinner, one of our leaders is hosting a team dinner today. I mean these are things that you know are important to us and we push. Well, I don't want to say push. We want people to do these events and be a good tight community. And to do that we lead by that way. We have an open door policy at our house.Beth:And here's the thing that people listening, because Santa, this is like, I love that our podcast is shifting. We're talking about growing a list, but how do people, this is when I watch, when I watch your team culture and I actually got introduced to you because we're sidelines. Your real identity is from Michigan and some of my team members, when you guys first came on, it was like, what the heck? Who are these people? They're growing so fast, welcomed with open arms, people from my team. And I kept hearing about this, this guy named Hass and I was like, I gotta know Hass, he's like Santa Claus. So this is what I want you to take away. If you're listening and you're going into 2020 you're looking at your goals from 2019 and I want you to first of all, listeners, have some gratitude for what you have done.Don't listen to Haas and go, Oh my gosh, I suck. I have not had an event. I want you to think about what have you accomplished, who have you helped? And then here's the thing is, you might want to shift how you're doing things. We've gone to this whole idea and maybe events aren't for you. And you might be saying, well, I built this business so I didn't have to leave home. What if I told you that you would make, Haas, just off the top of your head from, and we're going to start calling you Haas. Even though he is Santa, he's in the full Santa suit. Your income has dramatically increased from here. He's taking it off, he's taken it off. Now take it off Santa, take it off. There we go. I mean, look at that. Now he's like, okay, so you're watching this and we're going to pull this live.So some people will say, I don't have time to do those events, but when you look at retention of team members, and I like to say that if you have somebody that comes in and just as a thousand dollars of volume, but they know that they can show up at your pool party, they can show up at an event, they can show up at a retreat, they're welcomed with open arms. You guys have such incredible retention and is it worth it to be out of your house six nights a month, for probably quadrupling your income, that you had when you were working at Ford?SantaYeah, I mean, here's the thing. It's crazy because people, you know, people are like, well, you only hang out with top leaders. No, it's not the case. I don't care where you're at. In our organization, I don't care what rank you're at, how much volume you bring in. If you're a part of this, then you're a part of our family. If you want to show up, you show up. If you don't, there's no pressure. It's not forceful. Everything that happens, we try to make happen naturally.Beth:So if you are talking to somebody that's listening and they're just starting or they might have, let's say $10,000 of volume in a small team, what would be your advice for them to start building a culture in a community like you have?SantaHave events, go to events even if you're not ready to have them. Go to an event near you, right? Watch, listen, learn. Then also bring guests to these events or and or start conversations with people anywhere, whether it's in public or at the grocery store or online. Go on and do it. I promise you this, I can guarantee you this because I'm speaking from experience. The minute you step outside of that comfort zone is the minute you start to notice differences in how you are living, things that are happening to you, successes, doors, opening, relationships built. It's crazy to me. I remember our first event, I didn't want to do it and everybody's like, no, you got to do an event. My uplines are like, no, you have to do it. Jessica said just do an event. It's an hour from them. They're like, we'll come. I'm like, okay, cool.It was the worst snowstorm ever. One person showed up to our event, right? We call her the power of one. She's a rock star. She showed up to this event and sat in front of us like a deer in headlights. Jessica was talking, cause I didn't know much about the business. I was still very new. So a whole presentation went on and she listened and just took it in and took it in over the next few months. This woman absolutely crushed it and here's the funny thing is if I didn't do that one of that, that whole team wouldn't have started. You know what I'm saying? It was crazy because after the event we were like, Oh my God, it was an Epic fail. It was a disaster. We're never doing this again. But I ate those words very quickly. Now we do more events than you can imagine and it's been one of the best things we do, but not only for bringing people on and helping people, it's helped reinvigorate our teams, keeps them engaged.It helps them really stay energized and the comradery and it fills people's cups. I mean, it's just crazy how a couple hours out of a day, a one night a week can change your momentum if you were to start planning these events. Even if you don't do it every week, do it every other week. That will help you grow your momentum. It'll help people fill their cups. He'll give people energy or make them feel invigorated. It will re energize their business, especially if they're on a lull or a standstill, these are all ways to do it. But I'm telling you, just get out and talk to people.Beth:And that's what you've done is, you've talked to people locally and I love, I feel like it's like the revival of why people loved the network marketing industry. In the beginning, it was building community and you guys don't just do it like, it's not a boring flip chart meeting. You guys bring your families. I mean it's like, it's a family affair, right?SantaYes. It's my, our son. We have a three year old son. This was one of the reasons why network marketing has been such a blessing because of the time freedom and the ability to spend the time with our son. But we take our son to locals all the time. Don't ever make your why your excuse. So if your why is your children, don't make them their excuse for you not showing up, or make them the excuse that you can't be at an event or be on a call. They are the reason why you're doing what you're doing most of the time. And if that's the case, bring them, you're putting them in an environment that's safe. You're putting them in an environment with people that are loving, caring, and knowledgeable and are open to helping and they're learning those traits from you and making them better humans. I mean, for me, my son is a loving, caring kid that says, please thank you and you're welcome because he's heard it from all the people that we've surrounded him with and majority of them is our team in our family.Beth:And how about to listening to people that have the entrepreneurial mindset over and over again and being exposed to that?SantaYou know, we, we had the privilege of meeting somebody, you know, Pitbull. The amazing entrepreneur producer, songwriter, singer. You know that his mom used to listen to Tony Robbins in the car every single day for the majority of his childhood as she took him to school? He credits that to make him is what made him who he is because he found out who Tony Robbins is. He was in that environment. He was listening to that motivational, entrepreneurial spirit. He absorbed it all. And I'll tell you right now, kids are sponges and if you put them in the right environment, the odds of them being successful is going to be through the roof.Beth:And they see the vision boards, right? They see, Oh my friends are coming over for vision board party, right? Well Santa has a different background right now, but they see the affirmations, they see the morning routines and they see us working. My son said to me and he's 15, so we've got, you know you get the opportunity. He said, how can I have, I love that you have the freedom to choose when you want to work. He said you work hard, but I want to create a career or a business around what I love, and we started talking about the different options. And one of the things, he's got this idea, he wants to make these wakeboarding sweatshirts, but I talked about overhead building a website, manufacturing delivery and he's like, Oh no wonder network marketing was such a good fit, because you didn't have to build your own website.Like we just got to go, and you and I both are very much extroverted, like the ultimate camp counselors here, and just have conversations and take away all of the stuff that I call, it feels like your drunk uncle is driving. If you and I had to ship our product, build our website, and we get to do the thing of connecting, and that's what I'm hearing you say is whether you guys, you might be saying, okay, my team doesn't live locally. We'll start to build a team locally. You're missing out, and I'm going to say if you take one thing away from this podcast, from Haas and from me is, yes, you're going to have people all over the country. You're going to get on Zooms, you're going to meet up. We're going to share a place where you can meet both of us and where you can meet with your team by going to an event in February. But here's the thing, your local community is waiting for you, your next door neighbor, the person in line at Publix, is financially stressed, needs your product, needs your community. And if you're not Hass, and you're not looking up from your phone and you're not connecting, I guarantee you, you've helped someone put groceries in their car and had a conversation and invited them to an event, right?SantaYou know it, 100%! I've actually, I carry product in me. So if somebody is interested, I don't squander an opportunity. I'm out there pounding pavement, talking to anybody and everybody, and I give them an opportunity to try our product and really benefit from it.Beth:And here's the thing, I'm gonna say this and this is bold. And because I love all the strategies that we're out there teaching, but the most successful network marketers, when you look at Haas, when you look at what I've done, when you look at the seven figure earners, they are having conversations. Our job is to network. Our job is to connect. Our job is to change lives. So if you're only changing lives, typing on your computer behind Facebook messenger, hiding in a Facebook group, you're going to have a very, maybe a nice business. But when you ask, I've asked people this, your biggest builder in your company, did you know that person before? No. No. How did you meet? How did you meet your biggest person, your biggest earner?SantaIn-person, through somebody else. Because I opened a conversation, because I connected with that person and then met somebody through them, and being personable. Having conversations with people opens up the doors for you to meet people. I'm going to tell you right now, just because one person isn't the person you're looking for, I promise you that they could be a doorway for you to meet that one rock star that's going to blow your business out of the water. So every relationship is valuable, in my opinion, going out and meeting people and connecting with people in person. Look, we live in a society of computers and social media. The biggest successes and some of the most successful people in this business have, one of the reasons they're successful is because they've gone out, and physically in front of them, face to face, belly to belly, have talked to people, hug people, you know, shaking hands, whatever it may be out in public. I promise you if you do that, things are going to change. You're going to have a completely different dynamic. Not only that, you're appreciated more.Beth:Yes, yeah, of course. And so let's, in 2020 I'm going to encourage you, if you are looking to double, triple, 10 times your business, you are going to listen to Santa, to Haas, who says get yourself out the door. You're not going to feel like a encyclopedia salesman. You are going to make connections and go to that paddleboarding event. Go to the sledding Hill, have conversations, and like I mean carry your toolkit on you and you will drastically see your business change. The other piece that I wanted to talk about before we close out today is going to live training, in person events. And that's how Haas and I first met, at a leadership conference. I felt like we were already friends. But both Haas and I are going to be at an incredible event in Naples, Florida, called the Top Summit. Do you want to talk a little bit about that event? How about those people that are listening to this podcast? I didn't even run this by you. If you buy tickets for this event and you are going and you message us on Instagram, you can connect with Haas. I'll give you all his information over on Facebook. We will actually meet with you, and sit in a circle, and have a conversation and Hass will do a little training on how to have conversations in public. Only if you buy your tickets today, right? Haas, a free training with you at the Top Summit?SantaI will sit down and we'll have lunch, whatever it takes. Look before I get into the Top Summit, because it's an amazing event and I can talk about it all day. I promise because I went to the first one, but be genuine. Be you, care, you know? Be honest, not only with the person you're speaking to, be honest with yourself. These are things that you must, in my opinion, be truly honest with everything, and about everything, that you're trying to do when you meet somebody that's going to take you along the way. Now onto the Top Summit. I can't wait. I live in Michigan. You live in Florida, so you're very lucky. You know, You're already down there.Beth:I feel like I get to hang out with all my good friends. Like I have the best vacation ever. The Naples beach club. So here's the thing, when I saw that that's where it was, and then being asked to speak, what was like, what that was on my vision board. That's a dream come true. And my husband and I, before we had kids, his mom had a membership to the Naples beach club and we used to go over, and they have the best cheeseburgers, and I have so many great memories. We would just sit on the beach, read books. It was like the honeymoon phase actually. He's like, you're not going alone. So I was like, Oh, are you coming to the Top Summit? I'll meet you at the top honey. So tell us about the event. I know you were there last year. I didn't get to go to Mackinac Island last year, but I was watching the online streaming, having so FOMO, I'll never miss another top summit.Santa:I'll tell you right now, top seven, it was...oh look, I've been to a lot of events, it was very different in the dynamic of you were right there in front of everybody. The speakers were mingling with guests and people in the audience. I mean, not lost speaking outside of speaking, you were in the same hotel, so you were basically hanging out with these amazing top earners, trainers, leaders and teachers in around network marketing. But not only network marketing, traditional business as well. It was an awe inspiring. I was so motivated that I started doing...because I didn't speak at the Top Summit, not yet. Hopefully soon. It's on my vision board too. But, I will be there and I will help anybody. If you buy your ticket today, I will help anybody that comes up to me, and me and Beth will have kind of like...Beth:Let's have our own training. Yeah, we'll have a little mastermind for you. And if you go to the Top Summit website, which is https://thetopsummit.com, you'll see all the speakers. We've interviewed many, we've interviewed Ray Higdon, Rob Sperry, we have Frazier Bricks coming. Danelle Delgado. Who else is on that list? Like Cherry Tree, Courtney Epps for finance, Kimberly Olson. I mean we have so many and what someone said to me, it was Sarah Cole who had come to the first one, and she actually had just started with a new company when she came. Yeah, and left Top Summit and her business just exploded, and she said there was just something about the intimacy, like having Frazier walk up to you, having conversations, being able to ask these questions and then the connections. Some of my very best friends are with other companies, that I've met at masterminds or sidelines, and we just talk about things like this.Like I was able to save you Haas. We stopped doing some in person events. Tell me what's happening. Tell me how they're working. Tell me what you did to get them going. Again, those are the conversations that if you're going to build this like a real business, not just a hobby that you need to have, and you need to be open and there and invest in going. I was a teacher, I had to go to years and years of school, years and years of ongoing development, staff development, and we just come into network marketing and we're like, Hey, let's do it. Let's just do it. That doesn't work.Santa:No, it doesn't work and I'll tell you right now, it's an investment in yourself. You're learning amazing qualities, amazing techniques, things to save from some of the top earners and leaders in the industry and trainers. My wife and I, we invest a lot of money and time in growing ourselves in self-development. I think it's one of the most important things. If you do want to become an amazingly successful network marketer, one of the first things you need to do is invest in and the events like the Top Summit are really going to be events that are going to help you become the best and really get to the top. I mean, Top Summit's motto is 'I'll see you at the top', and I promise you if you invest in yourself, purchase tickets to this and now mind you, I have no affiliation with the Top Summit.I just absolutely love events like it, and it's the next big event that's coming up. I highly, highly recommend it. My wife and I will be there for sure. I know you'll be there. I'm super excited to see you in person. It's been way too long. But these are so critical and so important in investing in yourself. And if you take anything away from this podcast, other than you know, some of the tips that I offered or talked about from my experiences, I really recommend you take time to self develop and go to events like the Top Summit in Naples, Florida. Plus, look, I'm from Michigan. I woke up and it was nine degrees today.Beth:So I'm in Florida right now, complaining that it was like 75 and raining outside of my window today. So yes, we went from how to make a list. We went from going out and building in person and that transitioned us. Obviously I'm excited about Top Summit because I'm there, I'm speaking, and then I knew Haas was there and then suddenly it hit me. Hey, I want to get you guys there so that you can have conversations with them. Multiple six figure earner, top leaders like Haas who we'll take the time to sit with you and say, okay, I'm building online, but I want to bring that local community in as well. What are your suggestions? And even the genuine conversations that you have with people. That's the key. So I'm so excited Santa that you joined us today and I like cracked up when he showed up in full Santa's suit with like the the North pole and the backgrounds. If you're listening and you can't see this, you can go over, it'll be on YouTube, it'll be on social media.Santa:You took some pictures, right?Beth:I have pictures. I just put you up in the Instagram stories. Yeah, I've got it all.Santa:This is what makes this fun. Guys. You can do this from home wearing whatever you want. You know, today I chose a Santa suit because I wanted to play along and really make this fun for you guys. I appreciate you for having me. I appreciate all you listeners guys. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to this podcast. I hope I have helped and added value. I am a servant soul. So if I do see you at the Top Summit, which I'm looking forward to, please don't hesitate to come up and just give me a hug and tell me you heard the podcast and you know Beth.Beth:Are you thinking, I want to maybe give a sneak peek? I heard a rumor there might be a podcast for you in 2020.Santa:Yes, my face turned extremely red right now, as red as my suit. My beautiful, amazing wife and I are in the midst of doing some recordings. We're going to launch our podcast in 2020. We're super excited about it. We just want to add some value. Talk about being a theme. Parents talk about being network marketers, talk about life in general and we hope you subscribe. I will give you a title, a name and I'll get with Beth on this and we'll do it. I'll hopefully be able to have her on one of our podcasts next year.Beth:Yeah, and I love your platform of showing how parents are raising a family in the network marketing world. I can't wait for that content. And also I like even the tip you gave today about listening in the car too, to Tony Robbins. My poor kid has heard, Think and Grow Rich so many times. But that's what you're going to get from the podcast, is how to parent, how to live the network marketing lifestyle, live the life of freedom with two awesome parents, Sydney and Haas. And so we're going to look forward to that podcast. We're going to wrap this up because I promised 30 minutes for all of you, Hass, thank you so much, and I'll see you at the top summit.Santa:Thank you. Thank you for having me.Beth:Thank you guys for listening. Yes, and I will see you at the top. I appreciate you.Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’. I’m hoping that you’ve found one thing that you will do today that will allow you to move forward to that big, audacious goal. And I have a favor to ask of you, and that is leaving me a five-star review over in iTunes. Every single week I read your reviews. I love hearing what you have to say, and it allows me to bring you more, to get more people to interview that are doing the thing, breaking the glass ceilings, creating what they crave, and helping you with your game plan. So leave me a five-star review, and when you do, I enter you to win the, ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’ swag, so make sure you leave it and we’ll reach out to you if you’re the winner. Thanks so much for hanging with me today and we’ll chat with you soon.

Today I am so excited to share with you, a very special interview, with the amazing Kristin Crockett. Once upon a time, Kristin Crockett was living the American Dream – she was making all the money, she was top in sales in her career. She had the beautiful house, she had the husband, she had a beautiful family. Yet she was overweight, she wasn't feeling fulfilled, she felt this missing piece in her life. I think this is something that many women can relate to. I had just turned 40, I had gained a bunch of weight, I had never had a weight issue before. I decided to cut my hair. After cutting my hair, my husband, who is desperate to figure out what was going on with me. He thought to himself, what can I do to help my miserable wife be happy? So, he's like, what do you need? That's what we all want, somebody to ask our needs. And I said, I need hair extensions. Like that was my answer to why I wasn't happy. So, I went out and spent $2,500 on hair extensions. I looked good for about three days, and then my friends had to do an intervention after a month. My hair extensions were not the way to make me happy, and it wasn't how I ultimately found that contentment on the next piece of my journey. Kristen shares with us how to create the mindset to gain the success that we truly deserve, and to raise the bar on what we believe we deserve. It worked for Kristin, she lost over 80lbs, gained the personal freedom of self-expression, and expanded her confidence and courage. Keynotes discussed: I had the kids, I had the husband, but there was just something missing and I couldn't put my finger on it. (04:45)My unconscious mind had its own itinerary. So when you've got this, almost like these two worlds that come together, it shows up in reality as resistance and it, for me it was resistance to action.  (13:20)So when you get your magic wand out, you get to take that and just kind of silence that inner critic, and that's what the magic wand does. And then be able to say, well, this is what I'd actually really want.  (21:24)So that's what I, I just today, let's all do something courageous that feels uncomfortable, that we know we should be doing. (28:31)These are all these ideas that come to me when I wake up in the morning, and I keep a journal next to my bed because anytime I have an idea or something, you know, floats into my brain, I write it down. (32:20) Learn More About The Content Discussed... No Boss Talk:https://nobosstalk.comKristin Crockett on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DeserveLevelCoachKristen’s New Website: https://www.courageousdestiny.comThe Camp Elevate Facebook Group:hereBeth’s Instagram:@bethholdengravesBeth’s website:https://www.bethholdengraves.comProfit HER Way Course:https://www.bethholdengraves.com/profitBe sure to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts and share it with a friend that would get some value!Beth's website: https://www.bethholdengraves.comCamp Elevate: https://www.bethholdengraves.com/camp-elevate Episode Transcript… Beth:Welcome to 'You're Not the Boss of Me'. If you are determined to break glass ceilings and build it your way, this show is for you. I'm your host Beth Graves, and I am obsessed with helping you to not just dream it, but make the plan, connect the dots and create what you crave. Are you ready? Let's get started.Let's get started. Welcome back. I am so excited. I have an incredible guest on this episode. Her name is Kristen Crockett and I am going to do a little intro and first of all, I love to tell people, because a huge thing about my life is I seem to get these awesome connections with women and it's because I always ask questions. So, a friend of mine, Yvonne, who gave me permission, met Kristin and started working with her and Deserve Coaching and I started to notice the shift with Yvonne. Like something was different, and I'm like, what are you doing? Like you know when someone has a new boyfriend or a new haircut or they've got something, she had this glow and I'm like Yvonne, like what is going on? Are you having good sex? Like what's the story?She introduced me to Kristen and yeah, so I am going to just read it. It's almost reading, but I'm looking at her bio because Kristen, when I first talked to her, she was interviewing me for a book she's writing, which she'll share, and she said she had it all, the American dream. She was making all the money. She was top in sales in her career. She had the beautiful house, she had the husband, she had a beautiful family, yet she was overweight. She wasn't feeling fulfilled. She felt this missing piece in her life. I know I can relate. Kristen doesn't know the story. I'm going to have Kristen continue to share what she did from that moment. But I think this, many women will relate to. I had just turned 40 and I had gained a bunch of weight. I had never had a weight issue and I also decided to cut my hair.And I'm looking at Kristen cause we're live together. She's got this adorable haircut, it is sassy. I cut my hair. So, I had gained weight. I cut my hair and my husband who is desperate to figure out what can I do to help my miserable wife be happy? So, he's like, what do you need? What do you need? Like that's what we want someone to ask our needs. And I was like, yeah, I need hair extensions. That was my answer to why I wasn't happy. So, I went out and spent $2,500 on hair extensions. I looked good for about three days and then my friends had to do an intervention after a month. Like this is not a good thing for you. So anyway, hair extensions were not the way to raise my Deserve level and it wasn't how I ultimately found that on that next piece of the journey. So, Kristen, hearing that, I'm sure you get clients that were in my position all the time. Can you share your story, your journey, and how you ended up leaving that corporate high paying job to help women just like me?Kristen:Absolutely. So, I love the hair extension story. I think it's a really great illustration about something outside of me is going to make me feel better. Right? It's something else. It’s kind of circumstantial. Something is going to make me feel better. And for me, that's really where my story started. So, I had the beautiful home and it was gorgeous, you know, 4,800 square feet, so the granite counters and the warming trays and that, this and the that. And I loved my house, but it's like I bought all of the things that people who are incredibly successful buy, and I put them in a house, and I was terribly unhappy and didn't know why. I have everything, I have everything that I've ever wanted. And yet, you know, I had the kids, I had the husband, but there was just something missing and I couldn't put my finger on it and I just kept gaining more and more weight. I was overweight my whole life. So, it wasn't like a matter of a period in life or right after I had my kids, I had put on 80 pounds, you know, I had actually carried 80 pounds upwards of 20 plus years. And when I met my coach, I was almost 40, so that turning point in my life where the triplets were old enough that they didn't quite need me as much. They were five. So, of course they did.Beth:I just have to pause. Did you hear that ladies out there? Triplets? I hear, I was on my bed crying and I had independent kids that were not triplets. This woman gave birth to three at once. Just want to point that out.Kristen:It was funny because that moment, because what was happening was for so long everything was one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three. You know, it's like change the diapers, make the bottles, do this, do that. There was no time to go, ‘Oh, who am I?’ You know, what is this world about? Why was I born? There was nothing like that in my life, you know. It was just one, two, three. And if I wasn't doing one, two, three, I was going to work and I was working at a technology organization and I just go, go, go. It was like at that hamster on the hamster wheel, you know, that just keeps spinning around.Beth:When did you go? So, one thing that comes to me there, and this is like off topic, is - don't you wish as a mom that's surviving motherhood and I know there's resources out there. I wish I had known about journaling and known about meditation and getting my brain in the right and even just the Breathe App for goodness sake. Putting that in while I was breastfeeding could have changed a lot. So, maybe it's because we're in a more evolved space that I think all moms know about those things, but that's something I always think, okay, what can I do today to contribute to someone else's life? And I have three young moms I'm thinking about, I'm just going to buy them the Breathe App for a year and say use this. Yeah. Okay. So, you're in this hamster wheel and you made a shift. Like, how did you come across the Deserve Coaching? Like how did it come across your plate?Kristen:So I did a lot of complaining in those days and I complained to a woman that I work with and she was one of these women who, you know, seemingly on the outside just had it all, you know, she was a pilot, she was amazing at sales, she was a yoga instructor. She, there was just no limit to this woman. And I love that about her. I had a lot of respect and she was also incidentally one of those people that doesn't allow you to complain to her without giving you something to do about it. And I'm so grateful for that today, because right. What I complained to her, she's like, I'm going to give you something to do. I want you to call my brother and my brother's a coach.Beth:Oh my gosh. Yes. Awesome. That's what I'm going to start doing when people start complaining to me, I'm just giving them your number. There you go. Okay, so you started on, that's a scary move for someone. And I know that our listeners, one of the big reasons that I asked you to come out and we were talking about your book, I ended up turning it into my own private coaching session. We never really got to the book, but one of the things leading a large group of women, that when I had a huge compelling reason, when I started in sales and even though it wasn't always comfortable for me to make those calls, get on the zoom, have gatherings in my house because you know, your house is never ready. The compelling reason was so strong that I didn't stop to consider what do other people think? Why shouldn't I do this? But when people get comfortable, like you are very comfortable, you're making the money, right? So, you obviously, your compelling reason for making that call was you felt like "Bleep"!Kristen:Right? Yeah. I really felt powerless. I mean, now I know, I didn't even know what that meant at the time, you know? But I felt powerless. I had, there was nothing that was going to change my life. In fact, my first call with my coach was, well, here you go. And I complained to him for a half an hour about how, you know, everybody out at work was against me. And you know, there was no time to eat healthy. And I can't even manage to brush my hair half the time when I'm getting the kids in the car and getting them out to school, let alone try to make an egg or prepare something healthy for myself. Are you kidding me? And so, I just, I had no power. I no power to change my life. And that is when after he listened, I don't think I've ever had anybody just listened to me. Like I just, Oh, like, I'm like, wow. And then he goes, okay, Kristen. He goes, I want you to consider something. He goes, we get in life what our unconscious mind beliefs we deserve.Beth:And wait, say it again. Because with bells and whistles. Say it again. We get in life…Kristen:We get in life what our unconscious mind believes we deserve.Beth:All right. And I want to like, I want to stop here because he gave you that message and I know I spent a lot of years calling bullshit on people like you and saying, Oh really? Come on. You just have to get in the game. You have to work hard; you have to do the thing. Like, and I used to say that about people. I would get up at five in the morning and run. I was at the gym; I was probably on the obsessive side of fitness. And my sister would say to me, don't be so quick to judge because you haven't been in the shoes of someone that is. And I got into those shoes when I had let the health side go. So, I used to always say, well, if they wanted it, it's almost like telling someone with a mental illness to just be happy.Right? And so, when someone's feeling like getting out of bed in the morning and putting on their running shoes, like they're not springing up at every step out of bed is like walking across glass because it's so painful to take that action. Some people might say, well, that's just lazy. You've just got to do it. You've just got to do it. When suddenly this door is opening and evolving in my head of, they can't figure out how to do it. How is the subconscious mind playing into that story? I love to give strategies and solutions. I've spoken on stages about, all you do is put a hundred sticky notes on a wall and you move 10 a day, and Yvonne, who introduced me to you, she's like, yes, I know I need to move 10 a day. But me as a coach was like, well, why aren't you moving the 10 a day?Which made me realize there's a reason and that's that subconscious mind. So how does that, you obviously went through the coaching you learned about the Deserve level and how to raise the Deserve level, right? So, somebody listening is like, okay, I know all the things. I have, all the checklists. I have all the diets. I mean, how many of us have bought $70,000 worth of diets? We even know what we need to do to get our marriages back on track, but we just don't freaking do it. And did the bell go off in your head that day when he said that about your subconscious mind, and can you explain a little bit behind the science about that?Kristen:I would be happy to. So, when he said that, and you got to remember I had complained to him, I was in my own head and he woke me up like it was like bam, I'm up. It was the way he said it and I knew I could trust him instantly when he said that because of the way he said it. So, a little bit behind the science of Deserve level, it's our unconscious 5 percent of the way that we think. So, our unconscious mind has its own, you know, it's handling our actions. You know, a lot of people say, Oh well I'm on autopilot. It's like if you wake up at 3:00 AM and your alarm clock goes off and you're used to waking up at 5:00 AM every day, it's like, have you ever heard the stories where people are like, Oh my gosh, I got totally ready for work.I got in my car and the next thing I know, I realized I had three more hours. I could have slept. Well. The unconscious mind takes over, right? Going through all the motions, and that's what controlling most of our actions is. Our unconscious mind. So consciously, I could look at an exercise program and I could go, Oh, well I know all the tricks. I've been on weight Watchers for 20 years of my life. You know, I know how much to eat. I know portion control. I know how to weigh food. I know how to exercise. I had been an athlete, but my unconscious mind viewed me as the big girl, just mine viewed me as somebody without self-discipline. My unconscious mind viewed me as somebody who was going to break every single rule that anybody who was a diet practitioner would give me. My unconscious mind had its own itinerary. So, when you've got this, almost like these two worlds that come together, it shows up in reality as resistance and it, for me it was resistance to action. Does that make sense?Beth:Yeah, because I resist authority.Kristen:Yes.Beth:I’ve resisted authority, but I was always…they don't really know I'm resisting them unless they're smart. Like you are well trained in it, so let's take that. I know that. So, if you are coaching someone, because I think that before people, like I know that listeners are thinking, Oh my gosh, she's inside of my brain. They did. They like crawled inside of my private sacred space where I hold all my secrets. I want to tell you if you're listening, that even if you, you look at somebody that has it all together, they're winning, they've got the car, the house, the marriage, the job at any level of success this comes to play in order to get to the next step, the next step or two. I think it is for me right now.When I started in 2014 it was hard for me to say I'm not happy because I didn't want to disappoint those people. My husband was like, how can you not be happy? Look at what we have. Or even my daughter came to me and said, mom, what you posted about 2014, like it makes it sound like you are sleeping in bed all day. We were a family. We were having fun. And to not disappoint those people to say I needed something more from me. And so that piece of it, but also there's so many people and women, and I'm thinking of one in particular, that she needs something more for herself and I keep giving her an action plan to take the steps. There's a big financial chaotic piece going on right now around money and there's no action being taken to make the money that they need.So, the missing ingredient to me is the total and complete Deserve level that she's experiencing. So, if you were to, and this is you guys get ready…because what would be the first step of someone if they're like, I'm not quite ready to do some coaching. I know we're going to give everyone resources. There's a lot of free things that you provide if people aren't just wanting to learn and there's a book coming out. But what are you going to tell? I'm going to call her Mary, what will you tell Mary today who is looking at the sticky notes, or the action plan, or the phone, and she's just not doing it and she knows that it's in her hands? But it's just this or me eating, you know, two years ago, I know I'm not supposed to be eating this mint chocolate chip ice cream out of the carton at night, but you know, screw my trainer Amy because I'll start tomorrow and then I'll fool her Friday because I won't eat carbs for three days and she'll never know about the ice cream, when like Amy didn't care about the ice cream. All Amy wanted to do was help me achieve these goals as a nutrition and diet coach. So, like that's a lot that I just threw at you. But that's all. That's all people sabotaging success and happiness because of the crap in our brains, right?Kristen:So, first thing that I would do is, give her to this person who knows not to eat the chocolate chip ice cream or knows not to do these things, but is doing them anyway. I give them my listening, you know, because I can listen beyond just the surface so I can hear where somebody’s ego becomes engaged. And the reason why I can share it so well is because I spent so much of my life in that place, and I worked really, really, really, really rigorously to get out of it. And I worked on really untangling my own ball of yarn in my unconscious mind, you know, and really weaving it out one decision at a time, that created all of the stories and contexts in my brain.Beth:So, I love that one decision at a time. So how does the work begin? How does Mary or Belinda or Danielle whoever, want to start with that one decision at a time? And I'm a true believer in this. I told you that before, my solution is to hire a coach. But you can't hire a coach and like build out. Let's say you want to build out a funnel to bring leads your way, but you don't do the work and you don't connect with the customers. Same thing here, but one decision at a time to raise that Deserve level that, yeah. Okay, I deserve to have a healthy, hot body and feel good about myself when I get dressed in the morning. How does somebody start? Like what do you do to start that process?Kristen:Well, what I did to start was, obviously I did hire a coach because I hired Ed, and then after three months of working with Ed, I tripled my sales and lost my thirst 30 pounds. I'm like, ‘Oh my gosh, I got to be a coach. This is amazing’. So that's how I started. But you know, to start something like that is, I think it's really to identify what you want. Most people can't even identify a target of what they want because their unconscious mind already makes an impossible, you know, an example of this. And when they go to identify what they want, looking and observing what's in their way, you know? So, if I were to have said right when I began my Deserve level wasn't even high enough to be able to say I want to lose 85 pounds, that would have been like insane to me. I mean, my first instinct and my first conversation with my coach was, you know what, if I could just get my blood pressure down and I could feel good and I could lose 20 pounds, that would be good enough for me. You know? So, it's almost like to be able to identify your good enough's, where are you settling? Where am I settling in my life because I'm too afraid to even identify what I actually want.Beth:So, what is an exercise to help someone to identify what they actually want?Kristen:Well, one of the things I do on an introductory call, you know, or what I like to call a Deserve level strategy session is I have people create this, which is a magic wand and I want that…I was holding up my index fingers, I forgot, people won't be able to see what I'm doing on podcasts, but it's ...Beth:Here's...I'm going to throw this out there is, I have an actual wand, just so you know,Kristen:I do too!Beth:Oh my gosh. See, I knew we were like sisters from another Mister I bought a wand and I was like; I will wave that wand around. I used to do it when my kids were toddlers. I'd be like, okay, you are going to be exceptional humans today, that cooperate and play and get along, wave, wave, wave. And they used to think I was crazy but it kind of worked. Now I wave it on myself. So, okay, so you've got your magic wand.Kristen:So, your magic wand. What your magic wand does is, it helps you get rid of that inner critic. You know, the one that's going to be saying, because I'll never forget my coach saying to me, well, you know, you only want to lose 20 pounds, but that's it. You don't ever want to be on a beach. You don't ever want to, you know, you don't ever want to wear a, I don't know, a bikini or this or that. And I'm like, and I remember saying this as plain as day, I'm like, Oh, well sure I'd really want that, but that's fricking impossible. I'm a mom of triplets. Are you kidding me? I'm never going to have a body like that. This body has been stretched out to 300 plus pounds. You know, there is no way that that would ever happen. Just hear all those decisions. Those are all unconscious. So, even just that as the first step. So, when you get your magic wand out, you get to take that and just kind of silence that inner critic and that's what the magic wand does. And then be able to say, well, this is what I'd actually really want. And if somebody, I don't care what that thing is by the way, that you want because if you look out into the world, if somebody else has it, the only thing that's between you and somebody else is your decisions on what's possible for you.Beth:Oh my gosh! You guys write that down. Like that is huge. Go back click, you know, 15 seconds back, play it in half time, I listened to my podcasts at two times the speed because I need to get all the information. That is huge. And I have personally, on my own personal journey of, I don't know why this time, I just said, well it's available to me. Suddenly after I started the business at 47, it's available to me. And I think back to when I was at my fittest. It wasn't a, well I can't, it was of course I can. And so at those moments I didn't have the doubts, but then, you know, when I turned 50 I found myself saying, Oh well I'm 50 now, so my weight, my goal weights can be 20 pounds more or I don't want to live my life.I had all of the excuses or the interference, it's kind of like if you're playing catch and then you've got like a six-foot ten-inch-tall basketball player interfering with that ball and that flow. That's how my mind works is I always envision him, he's really tall and he keeps grabbing my damn balls. Like I'm trying to throw them, and he keeps interfering and knocking them out of my hands. I will visually, I don't even know if this is Deserve level coaching, but this is like, I call it my Beth coaching method, is I literally will stand up and I will punch him and I will say get the F out of my way. I am going forward and I have to then put on some Beyonce and dance it out. Like that's kind of.Kristen:Yes.Beth:So, my block, you know, is I'm working on a project now for creating a program for women and my vision and my dream is to bring women together and give them the resources and the connections.That's how this podcast was born. And I kept stopping with the production of the podcast because I kept thinking, well, there's already another podcast like that, or no one will listen. And that was obviously no. I had to take the interference dude and punch him. It'd be like, get out of my way. Because even if I share this, share Kristen today, that one person out there, hears this message and it's like I'm going to go to your website, I'm going to go to a free group. And one move is made, like one decision you guys, whether it's a humanitarian effort, whether it's just somebody that is in an abusive situation, they need to leave. Or maybe it's your like Kristen or me, that we are feeling powerless and we're like, you know, it sounds like a book; I was made for more, but to be okay with that.So, we gave you a glimpse of what's inside the Deserve level coaching and Kristen, I know that they can find you, connect with you. I want you to give us all of those details. We'll also put them in the show notes. But if today someone is driving to work or they're at the gym and they're listening to this and I know I've listened to podcasts and I've cried thinking that's where I am, and they're not quite ready to make the move to call you, or reach out to you, or to, they want to consume. What can you tell that woman today that's at the gym or she's driving in her car and life feels like it's just fallen apart? Like what's your message for her today? You were there, what do you wish someone had said to you before that? You know you had someone say call my brother and then, and we don't plan these questions and I do it on purpose. So, Kristen's probably like, Whoa, these are harder than I thought. It's not the typical what is Deserve level coaching. But you've got an audience. I want you to think of that one person she's driving, her tears are streaming down her face and she's like, crap, are they talking to me? What is your message for her today?Kristen:My message for her today. How my brand was born, my brand is Courageous Destiny. Okay. So, if you break apart, courage…cou means from the heart and then rage. So, from the heart rage, destiny, that's really what it means. And for that person who's in their car crying and feeling powerless, the way to grab your power back is to do something. So even though it's uncomfortable and it would be terrifying, then I would say challenge yourself to call me anyway because those are things that I actually understand. So, I wouldn't actually go to them and go, Oh, don't call me. It's okay. Do what's easy. I would say do what you're most afraid of first, and that will give you the most power. So, I would say call me.Beth:I love it. Yeah. And do, do what you're most afraid of first. And sometimes those are conversations and sometimes that's like going to the networking event alone or going to Bunco in your neighborhood. Even walking inside of, I'll tell you a quick story. My daughter, a brave move for her was walking inside of cycling class. She had never done it. She was on a health journey and when she got to college, she walked inside of a soul cycle, which was scary because like, I don’t know what's that, there's a movie where she falls off the soul cycle, but, someone message me on Instagram the name of the movie please, but it's a scary place to walk into. There's a lot of like perfection, and do you know how to get on the bike and clip yourself in, and whatever, it was that day that she decided, I'm going to make that brave move and walk through those doors of soul cycle and not worry about if I have the right outfit or if I know how to clip into the bike or if I know how to sign in.These are all things I've said to myself. She walked in and that one decision, but it's the compound effect of meeting a community of really amazing humans, changing the trajectory of what her focus would be in her life, and also feeling empowered by this body of hers that was able to, to move and grow and do all these things. And it was, and I remember she said when we were moving her in to her dorm, I'm going to go to soul cycle and like you are? It's so brave, but it's sometimes just one move, one call, one, one moment of courage that propels that forward. And I hope that when you take that moment of courage today, whatever it is, whether it's calling Kristen or walking into that fitness class or walking into church again, or calling your mom because you feel this disconnect, I hope you're met with love and not resistance.And even if you aren't met with love, that's okay too, because it's your step, right? So that's what I, just today, let's all do something courageous that feels uncomfortable, that we know we should be doing. And it might even be like sending a sexy text to your husband, and don't think, Oh, he's going to think this is weird. Did you do it when you were dating? Do you want to have a date night? Do you want to take your son bowling? Or you know, like all these things that come to my mind or make a brave call in your sales. So, do something courageous, because I love that you're courageous. Destiny is that push, right? So, tell us, yeah, that push, push, jump. Okay. If someone could take a look inside of your planner, are you digital or paper?Kristen:Digital.Beth:Okay. If someone could take a look inside of your planner, what is one thing that you do every single day that they would see that you do, and that is just a non-negotiable for you?Kristen:They would see that I have 15 minutes a day that I raised my Deserve level and I journal.Beth:Oh, non-negotiable. I love it. All right. I love to peek inside people's journals and their days and their daily plan. And Kristen, if someone wants to consume more of this and you, and learn more, where do they find you? Connect with you. Give us the goods.Perfect. So, I do moderate a group on Facebook called the Deserve Level Movement. So that would be an excellent place for somebody to join. And I'm always posting in there and posting Facebook lives. We have other Deserve level coaches and training that are posting in there. Clients of mine, people who know the work or just want to make a difference in the world are posting in there. So, find me there. And then also, if on Facebook, I'm also doing the lives, friend me, you know, reach out to me, you know, just reach out to me. I will have a website coming up, actually next week. It's being created, CourageousDestiny.com, and that is where you will find other videos and eventually have subscriptions and things like that. All to support people living their courageous destiny.Beth:I love it, and we'll put all those links in the show notes below. And are you also on Instagram?Kristen:I am not on Instagram. That's actually something that's on my to-do.Beth:Well, we'll do that together because, and I'll share it out, because our listeners love to screenshot the episodes. So, screenshot the episode, tag me, and then I will make sure that we get that over to Facebook because you can also put it in your Facebook stories that you've been on this podcast. And I'm going to encourage you. So, I'll put in the show notes below that, how you can connect with Kristen, how you can get a part of her free community when this airs, the website will be live. So, we'll also add that website, and I just want to say thank you. I have notes. I have learned so much today from your wisdom and from you sharing your experience, and I just can't wait to make more connections and do the work along with our community.Kristen:Beautiful, beautiful. It's really been an honor to come onto this show today and I do feel like we're like soul sisters or something, Beth, it's awesome.Beth:I know. I'm actually thinking that, hilarious. I'm going to do this today. If you leave us a five-star review over on iTunes and you'll let me know. I love to see it on Instagram or Facebook. I'm going to mail one person that's listening a wand. My favorite magic wand. Because I have extras. You get a magic wand today. I keep extras. I actually, yeah, I have some swag. I think that maybe a wand is going to have to be in my camp swag store. I have a camp store. These are all ideas that come to me that I wake up in the morning and I keep a journal next to my bed, because anytime I have an idea or something, you know, floats into my brain, I'd write it down and my husband will be like, you write in your sleep? I'm like, yeah, that's how ideas are born. That right brain side.Kristen:That’s how it gets created. If you don’t write it down, It's not real.Beth:I have like an overabundance of right-brain. Alright you guys, thanks so much for being with us today. As always, I appreciate all of you and I want you to have that moment of courage. Share it out on Facebook. Let us know what it is so we can celebrate with you and we will catch you on the next episode.Thanks so much for hanging out with me today on ‘You're Not the Boss of Me’. I'm hoping that you've found one thing that you will do today that will allow you to move forward to that big audacious goal. And I have a favor to ask of you, and that is leaving me a five-star review over in iTunes every single week. I read your reviews. I love hearing what you have to say, and it allows me to bring you more, to get more people to interview that are doing the thing, breaking the glass ceilings, creating what they crave, and helping you with your game plan. So, leave me a five-star review, and when you do, I enter you to win the, ‘You're Not the Boss of Me’ swag. So, make sure you leave it and we'll reach out to you if you're the winner. Thanks so much for hanging with me today and we'll chat with you soon. 

The Member Spotlight Mini Series continues as Jen and Annie interview Beth, a long-time Balance365 members whose daily gym selfies help keep other community members stay motivated. Beth is one of the amazing women in the Balance365 community - tune in for her inspiring, down to earth perspective on healthy habits and the good that comes from them that goes far beyond weight loss.     What you’ll hear in this episode: What was going on for Beth when she joined How Beth found the Balance365/Healthy Habits Happy Moms community Getting past when you get “stuck” The habit that made the biggest difference for Beth Meal planning for a season - Beth’s approach Why Beth does daily gym selfies How Beth found habits became wellness snowballs The role of mutual support between women on social media Feminism and weight loss The problem with goal weights Setting goals you can control vs goals you can influence Beth’s advice to anyone on the fence about Balance365 Beth’s advice to anyone feeling stuck about starting the program Weight loss of a byproduct and the other benefits of eating in a balanced way Moderation as a way to reclaim the body you were meant to have Balanced eating as a way to manage existing health conditions The role of the diet industry in weight gain   Resources: New Jeans And Vacation Without Shame: Sarah’s Story Small, Sustainable Changes: A Balance365 Journey With Danica How To Fall In Love With Exercise, Even If You Hate It Vivienne McMaster Episode 21: Before You Delete – How To Handle A Photo You Hate Beth’s Instagram Learn more about Balance365 Life here Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or Android so you never miss a new episode! Visit us on Facebook| Follow us on Instagram| Check us out on Pinterest Join our free Facebook group with over 40k women just like you! Did you enjoy the podcast? Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Google Play! It helps us get in front of new listeners so we can keep making great content. Transcript Annie: Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Balance365 Life radio. We are back today with our mini series called Members Spotlights. This allows us to introduce you to Balance365 community members who are just killing it inside the program so you can take their wisdom and stories and learn from them. They are busy women and moms just like you who are changing their habits, their mindsets and reaching their goals. Today you're going to hear from one Balance365 member who is determined to find changes she could make that produce results without taking over her life. Beth is a seasoned member of our community and is a self-proclaimed member of the slow starter team but since deciding to take action she has made great strides towards her goals including more balanced dinners and consistent exercise. I can't wait for you to hear more about Beth's experience. Enjoy! Beth, welcome to Balance365 Life Radio, how are you? Beth: I'm OK. How are you guys? Annie: We are golden, we're so happy to have you, we as in me and Jen. Jen's here too. Jen, how are you? Jen: Hi, good. Yes. Annie: We woke you up. You are in a beautiful house coat this morning. Lauren: My Instagram audience is quite accustomed to seeing this housecoat so all good, all good. Not ashamed! Annie: Now it's a signature look and full disclosure, I put one on my wish list. Jen: You don't have a housecoat. Annie: I don't have a housecoat. We call them a robe- Jen: That's bizarre. Annie: Beth, do you call it a housecoat or a robe? Beth:  So I call it a robe but what I wear is a housedress. Jen: Oh, I love that. Annie: That's next level, is that like a nightgown? Beth: Yep. Annie: So Jen- Jen: That's my 1950s dream, like but with rights. Annie:  I don't know how you can not get twisted when you sleep in house coats. Beth: I don't sleep in it. Jen:  Sometimes I sleep in my housecoat. It depends what's going on in my life. Beth: I keep it next to my bed so I can throw it on when I have to go deal with things but no, I'm not wearing it to bed, no. Jen: No, I wear my nighties, they're these silky long things, I don't. I just, you should try it. Annie: No, I'm good in my tank top and sweats. Jen: It's like that meme that went around with the spaghetti straps and the boobs out. Annie: Boobs falling out. Jen: That is me sleeping in a tank top. Beth: Remember when we were like "We're going to stay on topic" Annie: I know that's what I was just going to say, before we started recording we were like, I was talking about how I am pretty good at staying on topic but Jen and Beth are chatty cathies in the most wonderful way possible, they have a lot to say and whereas like, I'm going to keep these ladies on topic and look at us now. Jen: I heard you going for, I saw you going for the B word there and then your lips changed to ladies. Beth: I really respect where they were going. Annie:  You know what, the B word in my vocabulary is a term of endearment. Jen: Yes. Annie: But we have also labeled this podcast as clean which is very, very challenging for me so I feel like I deserve snaps for that. OK so, Beth, you have a long, long time member of Balance365 and you have actually been one of those women we've kind of consulted on across the years, I've called you personally and said like "Hey, what do you think of this? What's the vibe on this? What's the community feel on this? And you kind of been,  I don't know, like a good sounding board because ultimately we're here for you and our community and you've always been really in touch with our community, so thanks for joining us on the show, it's like about time we have you on. Beth:  Yay! I don't know what to say. I'm just happy to be here. Annie: OK. Well, why don't you tell us the Cliff Notes version of how you found Balance365. Beth: Sure, so my sister-in-law, who was recently featured on your podcast, Sarah, she added me to the public group without telling me and this is back in the day when you guys added people in like large groups and so one day and just all the stuff was in my feed. And I was a little bit shocked but it was a message that I really felt good about and it was close to what I was already kind of following in my own social media. So I was in the public group probably, well, you know, 6 months or so and then you guys had a, at the time again Balance365 was going all at once, people were going in groups and so I joined in September of 2016. And yeah, that's the Cliff notes version of how I ended up with y'all. Annie: In hindsight, do you think adding people to the group without telling them is a good start? Because that comes up a lot, like- Jen: That still happens. Annie: And then people, sometimes people are like "How did I get in this group and what is this?" Because our message is quite revolutionary and our opinions so to get and it's big, it's active in a really great way but as you said, when you join the group it can be a little bit like "Whoa!" Like. Beth: Yeah so I think that that strategy can backfire or it can go well, right, so I think for me it was great but I think sometimes for the community it's hard, like people adding, you know, kind of drive by adding their friends to the community, especially if your attitude is "My friend really needs to do the program because she's so crazy and won't stop talking about her bizarre diet, I'm going to add her to this group" like that's horrifying to the community, right, like, because then this person is in there being like "Let me show you my before and after,  I lost 100 pounds in 4 months and I never ate any carbs " and you're like "Ahh!" Jen: Totally and then it kind of disrupts the community and some people feel upset even, because they say "I'm in this group to get away from that kind of stuff" Annie: And then the individual can often get defensive and- Jen: Yeah, it's really difficult. I think it's better if people organically find us. Beth: In general I would agree. Annie: Or you approach your person, your friend in real life and say "Hey I've got a group I think you'd really like, would you mind if I add you? Or can I send you a link to join?" Yeah. Well, I'm so happy that Sarah added you and if you haven't listen to Sarah's podcast. Sarah has such a wonderful story too. She's had so many wins in our group and you can find her podcast, we can put that in the show notes too, she's just a gem of a woman. Jen: I enjoy her. Beth: She's my fave. Annie: Is she your only sister? Beth: She's actually my sister-in-law. We're married to twins so I met my husband in college and then I set her up with his brother. We were high school best friends. Annie: Oh that's perfect. I see what you did there, you were just trying to curate your family with people you like. Beth: No new friends. Annie: I love it and now look at you, you're on a podcast with 40,000 women. OK. So, let's let's get to it. You joined Balance365 in 2016. You purchased it a while ago but honestly, as you have been open and shared with us in our community, that it took you awhile to committing to the process and since fully committing you've experienced quite a few changes including weight loss. Can you tell us more about your experience with that? Beth: Sure, so when I joined in September 2016 I was just finishing law school. And starting a career at 35 and I really thought, like, now I'll have too much to implement some habits and lose weight and that was crazy. I don't know what I was thinking. I was entering a new field I was going from having not work a full time job in 8 or 9 years to working 50 plus hours a week so like, it really was not a perfect time for me to focus on implementing habits but I just kind of slowly would implement, like, you know, one habit halfway for 4 or 5 months and you know, dabbled, I did a lot of dabbling. "Oh maybe this is the one! Maybe this is the one! Maybe this is the one!" And there is nothing wrong with that. I actually think that a lot of women when they join program they kind of need a time of doing that. Because they've been relying on programs that project, that portion of my growth. I was stuck there for quite a while, like just about 2 years. And for me that wasn't great, like, I think I was there too long. I needed to kick start something sooner and I think, I see a lot of women in our community who sometimes have that problem, like they get to this point where they're like, "I have to completely address my sleep problem before I can address anything else or I have to completely address this one thing that I'm worried about before I can address something else and for me, I was getting stuck there. Jen: We, it's sort of like, it's like you're waiting for things to be perfect before you can start or something like "My life must look like this and then I can start" and Danica addressed this in her podcast with us as well and I mean, she had the same realisation, nothing changes unless something changes and there is never going to be a perfect time. Beth: Yeah, I, you know, I think it was not the right time, like it was not a good time for me to start when I joined the program. I'm not sad that I did it when I did. I'm happy for the time that I spent allowing myself, because I think that's the other thing is I think some of the women come in and they're, some people who come into a group in any kind of group and they're like, I paid for this and now I have to do it, right? And I think that's relatively unproductive a way to think about things because this is a lifelong experience, right? I can change my habits from now until I die. I don't have to change them all right, you know. And so I think there was a positive to be had with sitting and being like nothing is really changing and that's OK but if you, for me I was starting to feel frustrated with that, that kind of for me was the moment of being like "OK" but then as Danica said, if I don't change something, nothing will change and so for me, some of it was just identifying what kind of habit I can change that would produce a change in my life but not take over my life. I don't want a program that takes over my life. I think that's really important to me. I can't think of anything less interesting than thinking about food and exercise all day and so I needed something that I could make small change and for me that was, I just planned my dinners and then I just ate what I planned. And it's so boring and so mundane but it's what I did and it immediately resulted in changes to my body. Jen: So you were, I guess, that would be your dinner habit which is just one section of Balance365 that we have you address and did it dramatically change what you were eating or how much you were eating or? Beth: So really it was a matter of just, I think it changed the macro makeup of my- Jen: Right, the balance of it. Beth: Yeah, the balance. I was already eating all the all the correct things, I just was kind of addressing, you know, how much protein I really needed at dinner. I was looking at my dinner as a whole instead of just like, well, here's the meat and your vegetable or whatever, like, I was kind of looking at it as whole, you know,  like, "OK, what can I change? What will help me stay full? What will be satisfying? What will I be willing to eat? I am known, I suppose, in the community I meal plan once for a whole season because I hate meal planning, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. So I meal plan at the beginning of a season and then we need the same 7 dinners for 13 weeks, which is not for everyone but it works for me and so by picking things that I actually knew I would eat and that were balanced I was less likely to be like "I don't feel like eating that! I'm just going to the drive through?" or I think one big thing for me is they were easy. I picked easy things, which I will say during the 2 years when I was not actually implementing the program, I for sure would see Lauren and Annie talking about hating cooking and I would be like, "Oh come on, ladies, like, it's just not that hard, like, just, like how hard is it, right? But as I implemented this career that, you know, required, like, I have to lean on my husband a lot more to do a lot of that stuff and so planning things that I knew that at the end of the day it would be, there was chicken in the fridge and I could just take a bagged salad and throw it on top of it, like, it made it so that I would actually do it and so I just did, I just ate the dinner that I planned. I think that's so boring but it's what I did. Jen:  The thing is studies show that one of the biggest contributing factors to our food choices is convenience and so this is not it's not necessarily a flaw of humans, it's something, you know, it's population wide but we are busy people, we are very busy people and that's why meal planning works. The majority of women who work with us are actually working women, like working outside of the home, women and you know and so you know, we get it. Like, I mean, Annie, Lauren and I work so you, when it comes to supper time, you know, it's just, you know, I don't have time in my day to sit down in the morning and decide what we're having for the day and go to the grocery store and get all those ingredients and you know, I used to do that. I used to really enjoy it, like, I really did enjoy that component of being a stay at home but working, being a working mom is a whole new ballgame and yeah, meal planning can be just such a stress reducer, in a working family, I shouldn't say woman, I should say family. Bring boys in close here. Annie: You know, circling back to when you're talking about how Lauren I hate cooking. Beth: Sorry. Annie: No, no, I can own that because I don't, it's not that I can't, I mean, I can follow directions and probably cook some meals but I just don't want to, like, just like some people don't want to run or don't want to exercise or just like that's just not how I want to spend my time so that's why I really love Balance365 is because I'm not like, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work period. And so for me to go out and buy this meal plan that requires all this cooking or all this meal prepping or all this like grocery shopping, like that's just not going to, like it to me it feels like me trying to fit a, what is it? A square peg into a round hole, like, I could maybe do that for a while, like  white knuckling, I could like stick to the plan for a little bit but eventually I'd like, that doesn't sound fun, like, that's just not like something I enjoy. So I can still balance my meals in a way that works for me that doesn't require a lot of cooking or a lot of meal prepping or on the flipside, someone that likes to cook can also do a lot of cooking with it if they want. If that's how they want to spend their time and it's like no judgment or no, neither one is better and worse than the other, it's just what works for you, period, is all we're really concerned with. Jen:  I wanted to circle back to those 2 years where you weren't inactive, that's the thing, it's not like you bought and then you were inactive, you were very active in the group particularly in, we have a spin off group and some spin off groups, I guess, it's the Facebook group that's attached to our strength program Arms like Annie and you were active in Balance365 as well as you were quite active in Arms Like Annie. So it's not that you actually didn't do anything. You implemented an exercise habit. Beth: That's true, yep, but as, I mean, we've talked about it in the community, many times, like, an exercise habit is wonderful and there's so many positive things you gain from an exercise habit, but you know, if I just change nothing about my dietary habits, my nutrition habits, you know, it may not make a big dent in my fat loss and it didn't but it did produce lots of other positives. Jen: Absolutely, there's so many, you know, I would say fat loss is the last reason to work out. I mean, that's me personally, I don't know how other people feel but there's just so many health benefits to it that you don't even have to throw fat loss on the list, so but that's so, that's wonderful for you, really, holistically to have an exercise habit nailed and then you moved on to nutrition and- Annie: You know, that's actually one of my favorite things about Beth is that she is posting her selfies, her gym selfies at ridiculous hours in the morning because sleep is, you know, a love hate thing with you sometimes, so you go to the gym in the morning by yourself and you post your selfie and half the time you're like "Look, I didn't want to do this but I'm here and now and now I feel better or now I know my day is going to like take off in a completely different direction had I hit the snooze alarm or turn off the alarm and not come at all" and I love that you own it, just like I own I don't like cooking. You don't really like exercise but you see the benefits, like, you feel better, your day goes better, the rest of your habits seem to fall in line, which you've said before, it's kind of a snowball habit, like, your day is just different when you exercise, right? Beth: Yes, that whole, yeah, there's a lot I guess I'm trying to stay on topic, there's a lot to say about my gym habit and my selfies and all of that.  I do find I don't enjoy exercise, it's not, I danced in, like, my youth, when I was pre-college I was a dancer and I loved that but I never really found that same level of enjoyment from any other kind of exercise, including like, people were like "You should take a group fitness class, that's like dance based." No thank you, I don't want to, I'm not interested. It's not the same. You know, and people are like "You should do the barre method." Please, no thank you. I will just not. I will just watch my daughters dance and I will get the same enjoyment from that and my sons. I get enjoyment from that but not with the exercise. So I am, I did, I don't like cardio at all, and so I bought Arms like Annie and I think when I bought it there might not have been a  spinoff group yet and it turned out the Facebook's spinoff group really helped me achieve consistency with my habit and I feel so ridiculous, I will be honest, like, the selfies feel ridiculous to be me most days. But so there's a couple things, I guess, on the selfie thing, one is, I was mentioned in a previous podcast about what if you hate exercise, so I do, I put selfies every day when I'm in the gym, partly to create a sense of accountability to the group that I've said I will do this and I will do it and I show up. And as weird as it feels to me because I don't think I've done anything inspirational, like, I have women both in our community and women who like follow me on Instagram who are like, they feel that it is inspirational that I get up and I go to the gym. Jen: It is. I find, sometimes I see them in the morning and I'm like "Oh, just go, Jen, just do it, Beth did it. Annie:  Beth did it, you can do it too. Beth: It's hard for me to see it as inspirational. I really try and treat my social media like, I try to treat it like a real, when I was coming, when I was having kids, I'm a little older than, my kids are older than y'all's kids and when they were coming up I found it really hard, there wasn't as much social media and I felt really alone in hating being a mom, like I hated it and I felt alone, so when I tried to put myself out on social media in any way, I tried to be really honest about who I am and how it feels. So I do say, I hate cardio, I hate that I'm here in the gym, I say "I had to talk myself into every single set I did today." And I feel like, I see that there are women who feel the same way and they do see it as inspirational that I went. It's funny because I kind of see it as just me like kvetching into the like universe but I see why people feel it's inspirational but also, I do the selfies for me. So a long time ago in the community, I think it was when I was in the public facing group, Jen had recommended something and I somehow came to to the work of Vivian McMaster, she's a photographer and she focuses on, she has programs focusing on self portraiture as part of, like, self acceptance and Annie said the same thing a number of times in the group, like, just taking pictures of ourselves and just seeing what we look like can get us to body neutrality. Jen:  We have a whole podcast, not a whole podcast but we've mentioned this in a podcast and it's the whole thing of if you don't like the way you look in photos, you shouldn't take less, you should take more and look at yourself more. You need to get used to the way you look. Beth: Yeah, so I am, I really have tried to, like, so I will say I don't post a lot of unattractive selfies of myself, I'm still extraordinarily vain. Annie: Yeah, like you're feeling yourself. Beth: But I take, literally, in a month, probably thousands of selfies, like, I met admit how narcissistic that sounds but whatever, here it is. And they are attractive and unattractive and they are from angle that look good for me and the angles that don't because when I take them and I see myself I become, like, inoculated against seeing myself. And there was a long time where I was taking a ton of gym selfies and I was feeling good because I was taking a specific angle and I was avoiding all the other angles and I went on a trip with my friends and somebody posted, you know, a picture of a group of us and "Ahhh!" It was like a wake up call that, like, OK, like, I've lost some of the honesty of this practice. And I needed to get back to taking pictures and seeing myself for what it really is and this is just my body, this is just the body that I live in and it's fine and sometimes I feel really great about it and other times I feel kind of ambivalence about the whole thing and neither of those is the right emotion, they are just how I feel in that moment and so, I, so, yeah, so I take selfies for me as well I don't just take them to be an inspiration to the community. Annie: I love it because, to me, to me it's an act of self-love and it's an expression of self-love and I think, it's, sometimes women need permission to do the same and when they see other women taking selfies at the gym from good angles, from bad angles, like, this is cute, I don't really like this but I'm going to post it anyway because this is me like it gives women the permission to do the same and in fact, along the same lines of kind of what both you and Jen were talking about is we don't really cultivate self love by just focusing on the stuff we love, it's also exploring the stuff that we maybe don't love or even the stuff we hate and like why do we hate this, what is it about this, where did this start, where did this come from? Like and how can we move through that or at least like not be so dang uncomfortable with it, like you said when you see that photo, like, "Oh my god, delete, untag, get rid of that, I don't ever want to see it again!" Like maybe just sit with it, which we have a whole another podcast on that we can link in the show notes too but yeah, so I love that about you, Beth, I love that you, you just own it and if you've ever posted a selfie on social media best sees it, she is your top hype woman. She is like, liking that stuff, she's commenting, she's responding to your story, like, "Yes, woman, yes" Jen:  Women should, they should do that for each other, we should be celebrating each other non stop because we are coming out of an era where we shamed, we were shamed and we've shamed each other. We are coming out of that era and it's time we women need to stop hiding, post all the selfies. Beth:  Absolutely. Annie: Beth will have, I'm just going to, I hope you don't mind me- Jen: I'm going to post one today now. And I'm going to wait for Beth to comment on it. Annie: I hope you don't mind me sharing, Beth but Beth, you even posted, because we're friends on Facebook, like, I think you said something like, I've had a glass of wine or something, post your selfies so I can hype you up. You were going to work, you're like "This is like, I'm going to spend, you know, X amount of time hyping up women in my life, like, telling them how awesome they are." Jen: We're doing a selfie now. Beth: Okay, sorry, i just needed to take one for the gram, I was doing it for the gram. So yes I, so I have a very boring career as a real estate attorney, it's not anything real super exciting and it's not the work that I, I mean- Jen: It's not Law and Order? Beth: No and I love what I do but it is not, it's not lifting up people, you know, the way that I want my life, the way I want my life's work to be and what I have come to realize is like, you can have a career and you can also have a life's work and they don't have to be the same thing and I really truly believe that my life's work is about helping people feel good about themselves and accepting themselves and so it's weird because, like, I'm not, I'm just a girl who has friends on Facebook. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't have a public facing Facebook page and on how that's not what my life is about, I can only touch so many lives because I am a busy mom but I have a community of, especially because I went to law school late in life, I have a community of women who are younger than me who, I'm like, you could do this before you're 35, you could be in love with the life that you are choosing, you could be in love with it now and you can accept yourself radically now, you do not have to wait until you're an old woman, you don't have to wait until you have gray hair to decide to love what you look like and so I do. I will, especially, it's true if I drink I'm especially likely to just troll my friends' Instagrams. Jen: Loving up on all of them. Beth:  But I will also, like, if I'm having a bad day I will ask people to post selfies in my comment sections so I can tell them how great they are because- Jen: Oh, that's so lovely. Beth: It really does make me feel better, like I feel better doing that and as Jen, I do think, I think loving yourself radically as a woman is a feminist act, like, I think it is saying to society that, like, you know, you can kick rocks, like, this is what we're doing now. Jen: Yeah, we're loving each other, like we are, this is not a woman against woman society anymore.. Beth: No and I saw a meme the other day day and it said something along the lines of "Who needs to send scandalous pictures to men when we can just celebrate each other" and that's how I feel, right, like, you don't have to, like I don't know, I don't care, you don't have to think I'm cute. Like, my girlfriends will hype me up and I am, I joke, I'm everybody's auntie on Facebook because if you post a selfie I am going to tell you how great you look. And I just, I, it's part of, I think, it's one of the things I love most about myself and so it matters. Annie: I love it about you too. Jen: I know that you have to go, Beth, so here's what I hear. I hear radical self acceptance, really bad A-S-S gym habit. Working out, building the guns every morning and as a byproduct of and you started implementing nutrition habits, balanced nutrition habits make you feel good and as a byproduct you have seen some weight loss that you are, I don't know if pleased is the right word, how do you feel about the weight loss? Because I know you are a very, you are, you've, you strongly identify with the feminist movement, I know that about you and so sometimes in the feminist circles weight loss is a touchy subject, right, because as you know it's been used to abuse women for so many years, so how do you feel as a strong feminist who has changed their nutrition habits and is losing weight? Beth: You know, I'm pretty ambivalent about weight loss, if I'm being really honest. I, some of that is because of all the things you mentioned, right, like how our bodies look has been such a weapon against us over the centuries. And so some of it's that and some of it is I have, well, I didn't do a lot of dieting in my life, I did do a lot of binge and restrict, just traditional trying not to eat the bad thing- Jen: Just the traditional- Beth: Just the traditional, you know, thing that we all do, I don't eat anything and then I eat all the things. So I have lost tremendous amounts of weight and been congratulated by the world and then have the experience of gaining it back and feeling like there was something wrong with me for having gained it back so I am a little bit ambivalent about weight loss for that reason, like, just that I want to make sure that I don't put too much of my value in it. Jen: Right. Beth: But, like, so I actually shared that my mother's in town right now and I shared this story with her the other day and I thought it was really, it's one of the things I gained from Balance 365 that I'm the most thankful for. I was in my doctor's office the other day and I told him I was, like, "Look, you know, I'm doing all this stuff and like the weight, really, like it's just, it's a slow slog. I feel like it's not coming off. I'm doing the things I'm supposed to do and it's not coming off."   And he told me, he said, "You know, you're an attorney who has 4 children. You live a very high stress life and it will be hard for you to lose weight,  like it's going to be hard, like the stress is going to make it difficult," and he said, "So, you know, I wouldn't put a lot of weight on that. I wouldn't put a lot of your focus on trying to lose weight because it may not happen, you know" and it felt really, at first, really discouraging. But there were lots of times in my life where if I had heard that message from a doctor that I would have been like "Well, I'm calling it. It's ice cream sundaes for the rest of the week and I'm staying in bed and I'm not going to the gym" and instead, I mean, this was probably 2 months ago, I have only increased my gym consistency and focused more on my eating because it really turns out weight loss is not my aim doing this, ultimately. I've stopped linking the things that I do for my health to how fat I am. Like I've just stopped linking those two things. Jen: Good for you. The weight loss is just a byproduct, like, it really, you know, it's and that's what Balance365 is about and that's what a lot of women's journeys have to be is that weight loss is not a driver, it's not like, you know, where for a lot of women it was, right? It was like wake up in the morning, OK, what do I have to do to lose weight today, right? Instead of going, waking up in the morning, saying "Hey, how am I  taking care of me today?" and the byproduct of that, you know, it is what it is and for some people that could be weight loss. Annie: And one of the kind of philosophies that we preach is that weight loss is not a behavior, it's not a habit, it's a byproduct or it can be a byproduct of our habits and that's not, that's, I mean, we're a habit based behavior change company, so we're focusing on behavior change that you're after, that's important to you, that matters to you, that works for you and if weight loss is a byproduct of that and you're comfortable with it, then we're comfortable with it. Beth: Yeah, and that was a big plus for me here because I've always been like "What's your goal?" "Well, my goal is to lose 50 pounds or my goal is to lose two pant sizes or my goal is to, you know, whatever" and it was like it was revolutionary for me for my goal to be "I'm just going to show up at the gym," like, I'm just going to show up and I may not have any strength gains and I may not lose any weight and I may not have any result, there may not  be a result, I'm just, my goal is something that I can control which is shocking because most of us have been in programs for our whole lives where the goal was something that in reality we have very little control over, right? Jen: Right. Beth: You can do all the things right, you can exercise perfectly and you still may not lose weight and you have no control over it so your goal is something you're like, I may never gets to, that's the worst, who wants that kind of goal? Jen: Yeah, I mean, I think you if you know your body well, you know, you can influence your weight, you know, that there are certain behaviors that influence weight loss but having, I mean this is why we have to be very careful with setting goal weights is that what if you, what if you are living a life you feel very healthy and balanced and you're not at that goal weight? Like, what are you willing to do, right and so it's sometimes it's just disappointing to set them, right, like? Annie: Right, well and even in our experience after coaching thousands of women, you know, the goal weight that many women have for themselves is like so unrealistic. "Where did you get that number?" "Well, that's what I graduated high school at. That's what I got married at 30 years ago." Jen: And you dieted for 6 months before your wedding day and now- Annie: Yes and I think, you know, Jen and I talk about this all the time, you know, Jen and I similarly, we're within a year apart with 3 kids, same height but Jen and I have like a 50 pound difference between us and so for me to think that like, "I could be Jen's weight," or for Jen to think "Oh, I could be Annie's weight," like that's just absurd. Like it's just, like, not realistic on either end of the spectrum and so yeah, I think that's just something to consider when, if you're listening and you have a have a goal weight in mind or if that's, like, in your back pocket it's like maybe give that some thought- Jen: Maybe focused on your behaviors and as an act of self-love you can let your weight be what it's going to be while you are pursuing behaviors that feel really good and really healthy for you. Beth: Well and I don't, I guess, I didn't, I don't want to sound like, you know, like, I sound like a Debbie Downer, like, I feel ambivalent about weight loss and you might not lose anything and I should say I have lost 15 pounds since the beginning of September so it's not as if, I'm not trying to say, like, it's impossible to lose weight or you you can't lose fat. Absolutely, it's possible but it's just for me, it's been very freeing to have goals that have nothing to do with my weight, that are just goals that I have control over so I don't want to make it sound like "Eh, lose weight" Annie: Beth, I enjoy you so much. OK, real quickly and then we'll let you get on with your day because, you know, it's a nice Sunday afternoon before the holidays, perfect timing for a podcast. If someone was on the fence and they were listening about joining Balance365 what advice would you give them? Beth: I think there is never, I don't think there's anyone who couldn't benefit from the program. So I will start by saying, "I think you should do it." And alternatively, as a second thing, if you are in a position where, like, you're worried, like, financially I don't know if I can do it, or you know, if you have reasons that you are holding yourself back that are valid ones that for you, then I do think, my experience is that there is certainly benefit to being in the group before you're ready to make changes but it's OK to wait, it's OK to wait until you're ready. So if you feel like it's not right then maybe it's not right right now but there's no one who I wouldn't say "Yeah this is a program that you can benefit from." So, you know do it, you can hang with me in the slow start club. There's a lot of us, there are a lot of us in the slow start club and I think now, kind of my purpose, it's not another life's work but like my goal in the group is to kind of try and help those people who are still hanging back, wanting to start, not knowing how to. Jen: We have a lot of Balance365ers who are listening and so if you and some of them are like, they're holding back from just getting started, so what would your advice be because I saw you tell somebody the other day in the group, I'm not sure what the post was about but you said "Hey look, I waited two years, I think, you waited two years to get started and that was a big mistake." Beth: Yeah. Jen: So what would your advice be to move people out of that zone of like- Annie: Contemplation. Jen: I've started but not starting, I've purchased but I'm not starting. Beth: I think I would say, "OK, so I think, my personal opinion is that starting with the balancing one meal is the right way to go. Now, that was what was right for me, not everybody is going to start the same way and  but I'm speaking to people that for whom balancing a meal would be a good way to start and here's what I would say to those people: you have to eat something for dinner tonight anyway. Jen: Right, you might as well balance it. Beth: You have to. It's not as if your stress means you don't eat dinner, in fact, most of us are here because our stress means extra dinner, so like,  if you are in a red zone and Annie and I, when we tried to record this in the past and I was so sick, we talked a lot about how I have ambivalent feelings about the red zone as well, like it's not, I kind of feel like "Eh, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. For me, that's a big part of what I love about the community is there's not this sense of like "No excuses," like, there aren't really truly, there are no excuses, you just, you know, you either do it or you don't do it, because you want to or because you feel like you can or whatever, it's fine. If you don't do it, you don't do it. Nobody is watching. Jen: And no one's judging you. Beth: Like, I don't care. I don't care if eat a balanced dinner, like, you're cool. I have met so many wonderful women in the community and you know what, if they don't eat a balance dinner,  I could give two, right? Jen: Well, some people don't take action because they feel like, especially in this sort of "wellness industry area" they they don't take action because first of all, taking action in the past has been this big thing, overhauling their life, it's not like, "Hey, just balance your dinner. It's just like this one thing." It's like this overhaul, right and number two is you feel like people are watching you and you're going to be judged and you're going to get this right or you're going to get it wrong and it's like, we're not here to judge you, we're not here, you can't pass or fail. This isn't a, you know, we're just working at change, all together. Beth: Yeah, I guess, so yeah, I guess my advice would be just pick a meal and balance it and it feels, I know it feels like there's 7000 things that are keeping you from doing it, I know it feels that way, because we all feel that way, we all feel like, like you said, it might be the judgment of past diets or it might be fear of failure or it might be actual things, right it might be a sick child or a marriage that's falling apart or it could be any number of things. I have interpersonal problems too. I have and that's not to say,"I have these problems and if I can do it you can do it." I mean, we're all going to live that way forever.I have yet to meet a mom who's like my day is just so smooth and I have nothing to do with my time except meal plan and make perfectly balanced dinners. Like, I've never met that woman. I've never met her. Jen: Yeah. Beth:  I don't think she exists. I think she's fake and so you're going to make dinner tonight. You are going to. You're going to eat something so choose to eat something that is closer to what you think would help you achieve your goals. So, for me that meant just planning, I'm going to be honest, like I said, I go to Pudova, I buy chicken and I throw it on top of a bag salad, that is what I eat like 3 nights a week when my children are not home because it means I don't have to do anything. It's my favorite and I probably would eat it 7 days a week if my children were not home and I didn't have to feed them. Jen: Beth, do you feel better? Like, I mean, is there anything, like, can we attach some feelings to this? So because eating balanced meals isn't about, we're not guiding women into eating more balanced meals for weight loss, that's not our primary driver, do you feel better eating more balanced meal? Beth: So yes, one, like, digestive health is better, obviously, when you eat vegetables, friends, like that's just true. Jen: It's just yes. Beth: It's just a fact about your digestive tract and my digestive health is better when I eat vegetables. I personally have some gall bladder issues and when I'm balancing my fats I feel better in that sense and I think my sleep has improved since I've been implementing more balanced eating, probably some of that is because if I'm not going through the drive through I'm less likely to drink caffeinated beverages late in the day. Jen: Right. Annie: Right. Beth: So there's a number of things that I think are positive and some of it, I won't lie, some of it is that fat loss has been a byproduct has also made me more comfortable in my body in a number of ways and so I think there's lots of positives that have come from eating a balanced dinner. Jen: Yeah, I mean, I heard from one of our members as far as the fat loss, she said you know it's the little things like bending down to tie my shoes and not having, you know, all this fat in the way, it's like physical comfort that she quite enjoys about losing weight off her body and I think that's OK to talk about, right, like there's only so much we can control each of us individually and as long as we're talking inside the constructs of what you, what is possible and achievable for you I think that's, you know, totally OK. And the other reality is that in the culture we live in that is so, so guided by diet culture a lot of women, a lot of women the bodies they are in are a result of years, decades of dieting and sometimes implementing these habits and seeing fat loss is about taking back the body you were meant to have before you got into this binge and restrict cycle that the diet industry pushed you into, resulting in actually living in a larger body than what is healthy and just your, what your natural body is, right and I'm here for that, too, right, so we say about Balance365, we're not trying to help women live at a body weight that's leaner than what's healthy for them, we're trying to get you to reclaim the body you were meant to have. Annie: I love these conversations with Beth because it's, like, not just about, like, this exterior, like, this has a very deeply rooted, deeply seated meaning of exploring, like, your relationship with yourself, your relationship, how your relationship with the world affects your relationship with your family and your other relationships and like, how, it just changes how you show up in the world on so many levels and so I just always love Beth's perspective. Jen: Me too. Annie: Yeah, OK, Beth, I know you have places to go, would you mind sharing your Instagram handle? Beth: Sure, my instagram handle is bethiclaus, beth like my name, i, claus, like Santa Claus and you can follow me, I think it's set to public right now but I'll probably get a private but if you ask to follow me and you're a woman- Jen: She'll let you. Beth:  I definitely will let you. If you're a man, who know, maybe not. Jen: We're going to link to your Instagram account in the show notes. Beth: Girlfriends only. And so yeah, I mean, yes, if you follow me and then you do an Instagram story, there's like a 90 percent chance if you put a selfie in there you'll get feedback from me. Jen: Praise emojis and heart eyes. Beth: Positive affirms only as I like to say. Annie: Yeah, it's, what a great, you know, it's like dropping a pebble into a pond and watching the ripple, like, expand out. It's wonderful. I think that's such a great way to spend your time. I can't, like how valuable is that, making other women feel good or just encouraging other women to feel good, so thank you both for joining, Jen, this was fun that you were able to join for a member spotlight. It was enjoyable. Jen:  Yes. Annie: Even in your house coat. Jen: Yes and now we can all go and enjoy Christmas. Annie: I know, I know but it's going to be way past Christmas by the time this comes out so- Beth:  Merry Christmas, y'all. Annie: Merry belated Christmas. Alright, thank you ladies, we'll talk soon. Beth: Bye. Jen: Bye.

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Beth Marcus Former Founder and CTO, Zeemote Date: January 22, 2010 Entrepreneurial Heroes Interview with Beth Marcus [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NC WIT, and this is another in our podcast series with women who have started IT companies, very successful women I might add... Larry Nelson: Boy, I'll say. Lucy: ...that have started IT companies. With me Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi Larry. Larry: Hi, I'm really happy to be here. This is going to be an exciting interview. Lucy: Well, and these interviews have been very well received at W3W3. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that. Larry: Well we host a special channel, "Heroes for NC WIT, " and we get a tremendous amount of traffic from, everything from small business owners to C level, high level executives from enterprise size companies and it's very interesting and the thing that we like about it so much it's really helping support a push for more young girls to get into IT. Lucy: Well, very good. Well, you know this interview is going to be no exception to our great interview series. Today we're talking with Beth Marcus, who is the CEO, the founding CEO of Playsmart, a new venture for her, she's a serial entrepreneur. She's founded a number of companies including Exos which she sold to Microsoft on the middle of nineteen nineties. And she is, I think easily one of the most technical people we've spoken to in this interview series with a history at MIT, and a PhD and patents and very, very impressive technical entrepreneur. Welcome Beth. Beth Marcus: Thank you. Lovely to be here chatting with you. Lucy: Well we are really interested first to find out a little bit about Playsmart, your new venture. And we understand it is really geared towards having safe environments for children on the Internet. Can you tell us more about it? Beth: Sure. It's a complete media solution for kids, ages one to eight. It allows them to be entertained, educated, connected to other family members around the world and allows the parents to control what's happening with the kids' interaction with those environments and make it totally safe. No commercials are passed to the kids. Once they get into the Playsmart system which can run on any PC or netbook they can't get out of it accidentally or otherwise and they can't get to any content or interaction that their parents don't pre-approve. Lucy: That's pretty interesting. Larry: Boy I'll say. I've got seven grandchildren, I'm happy to hear that. Beth: In fact, one of the features that some of our investors are interested in is Skyping to grandchildren that you can do through Playsmart. All you do is click on a picture of your grandparent and it makes the call for you. Lucy: Oh, that is really cool, you know. My mother's on Skype too and you know she, I mean I actually think the other end could use some help with that, you know? Larry: Yes, I agree. Beth: Yeah. Lucy: I mean she loves Skype. Beth: My daughter is how I got involved in this. I do a lot of advising of other start up CEO's and I thought I was going to be taking a break from being a CEO and just help a bunch of other people, and an entrepreneur came to me and said, you know, "Let me show you what I've got, " and it was for kids and I have a five year old. So I said, "Susie, let's play with this thing, " and she said, "Oh, this is so cool." You know and her interaction with it is what convinced me to get involved with the company and become a CEO. Lucy: You know, we've had a couple of people we've interviewed whose children have helped them form the idea for their next venture or at least encouraged them to get involved. That's really interesting. So Beth give our listeners a sense of how you first got into technology. I mean you have a very extensive technical background as I mentioned before. What first interested you in technology? Beth: A million years ago when I was in school I liked science and math and I played around with computers. And I'm probably going to give away my age, but wrote programs in Basic that ran on paper tape into a terminal. Lucy: I did that too. So don't feel bad. Beth: And then, I ended up going to MIT because they had a lot of interesting science and math. And what got me into more core technology was freshman year at MIT they have a seminar series that you do, typically in January and I took aluminum bicycle frame building because I loved bikes and I thought that would be cool. I had never seen a machine shop, I didn't know what welding was. I had never done any of the stuff and through that seminar I got fascinated by making stuff and ended up being in mechanical engineering. Lucy: Well and we noticed you were judge for First Robotics which I think further extend... Beth: Ten years, which is a lot of fun. Lucy: Yeah, you're love of making things. Larry and I both judge as well with First, so it's a great program. So what technologies do you look out there today across the technical space? What technologies do you find really cool and interesting today? Beth: Of course the last company I was in was the mobile space so I think the evolution of mobile devices into computers that you carry around with you is very interesting. I mean, when I started Zeemote in 2005, when I said, "These are the computers you're going to carry with you 24/7" the potential investors looked at me like I was from Mars. Larry: Yeah. Beth: And now people do. Lucy: They certainly do and in fact the number of people are looking at mobile devices as a real tool to help third world developing countries as well. Larry: Awesome. Beth: Well, they don't have land lines. Lucy: Exactly. Beth: And even though we have them, a lot of people don't use them anymore. Larry: Yeah, let me kind of switch gears here for a second. Two part related questions. One is, why are you an entrepreneur? And what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Beth: Well, I think it's a challenge. The first company I started, I remember we had built some high end controllers, exoskeleton controllers for robots in space for NASA and other people. And I got this idea that we ought to be able to take this technology and make it into a consumer product. And I was giving a talk at a Virtual Reality Conference and somebody from a not to be named defunct computer company said, "Well if you can't spend two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on a reality engine you shouldn't be doing VR." And I said, "We're going to do it on PC's and we're going to make a hundred dollar joystick and everyone's going to use them but they're not going to know that it's VR." And that sort of a challenge where somebody says, "Oh you can't do that." [laughter] Or even sometimes why would somebody want that. And then you put it in front of them and they go, "Oh wow. That makes my life easier"or "That makes my health better." You know. That exciting to me. Lucy: It's a very incredibly important point I think, you know, maybe I'll just digress a moment and say that you know there's always this tug of war in any corporation big or small between the business side and the technical side and often I think the business side can't necessarily see the power of technology until a technologist puts it in front of him. And... Beth: That's why I advise all the companies that I get involved with to get those prototypes built as quickly as possible with as little money as possible and get it into the hands of the end users. Because there's where you're going to find out are you smoking something and convincing yourself there's a market or does somebody really care about this. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: And you learn so much that most entrepreneurs will tell you that the thing that they thought they were starting their company on is not the one they made money on. And it's the ones who iterate and spend time with the consumer whether they're a consumer or a corporate customer or whatever kind of customer, the ones that spend the time and listen to the customer are the ones that figure it out and succeed. Lucy: That is a really important point and I think, looking forward, we may have to ask you again a month from now but you know we do a Toolbox series as well and I think that it would be great to hear your advice for entrepreneurs because that advice around prototyping is excellent. Beth: I was going to be writing a book this year. Lucy: [laughs] Now you are running a company. Beth: Company...My God. I spent some time on it this summer capturing things like that and interviewing other entrepreneurs and then I said, "OK, I got to put this aside until I do this center and I'll come back again." Lucy: I think it will be fabulous because of your technical background. I'm sure you'd have some really valuable insights there. Beth: And I am a published poet. So... Right in the way that is intelligible to the rest of the world. Larry: So now there is a third interview. Lucy: A third... [laughs] Larry: A poetry. Lucy: Yeah. You are really digging yourself into a hole. So, along the lines of entrepreneurship, we found that many entrepreneurs can point to a particular person or a group of people who influence them or help them along their way as an entrepreneur. Who are your role models and how do they influence you? Beth: I think the first person who got me the sort of excitement at making stuff work was this professor in MIT Woody Flowers who was involved in the First Robotics Company. Lucy: Absolutely, I have seen him. I have never met him. Beth: But he was an early mentor of mine and I became a judge for this mechanical engineering design contest while I was still a student. And then that's sort of got me excited about the excitement of innovating and trying new things and testing your ideas. And then when I went to start my first company, I joined the MIT enterprise forum and there were a number of people there who I had no idea even what a business plan was. And I was going to write one to raise money. So I listened to other people talk about their businesses and I got some of those people to help me write my first business plan. And then later on, a man named Don Spero started a company called Fusion Systems down in the DC area that successfully flowed against the Japanese and the patent area. Kind of taught me about intellectual property and the value of it and also mentored me generally because of his long experience in running companies. And then when I was running Exos and I realized that I was out of my debts from a management point of view. I hired a guy named [indecipherable 10:03] to come in and run my company. And he became a mentor of mine and he is still to this day a friend. So all along the way, I think the lesson for an entrepreneur is to talk to anybody you can everywhere about what you are doing and try and connect with them because you never know when you are going to stand next to the person who is going to get you a deal like I did when I was in a party in MIT. And I stand next to Bob Metcalf who introduced me to the Logitech guys that told me what product to build for an Exos to get an exit. Or whether I am going to hire somebody who turns out to be my mentor and teach me about business that leaves the exit in the company. Larry: Wow. Beth, let me ask this question. First of all, you just mentioned about you are going to write a book this year but now you are running a company instead. It took me three years to write a book that I just had published called Mastering Change. So I just want to let you know that you can do that too. Beth: Yeah but I have a five year old and a puppy. Larry: Yeah, I got you. [laughs] Beth: So I said my daughter is most important, my business is second most important and the rest will just have to wait. Larry: There you go. I agree with that. Lucy: Although I could throw little barb in here and say Larry is a five year old but... [Larry clears his throat] Go ahead Larry I was... Beth: Anything about relationship in any of that. So? Lucy: [laughs] Larry: I have been married for 40 years. What are you going to do? Beth: Adolescence. I am not married so... If any of your listeners want to apply for the job, I take resumes. Larry: We make a little commission on this... Lucy: Yeah... [mumbles] Larry: Yeah. Speaking of all that stuff, what is the toughest thing that you ever had to do in your career? Beth: I think the first time I had to fire people was probably the worst moment because at Exos we started out as a medical company and we grew to a million and a half in revenues selling orthopedic rehab devices using our technology. And we realized we probably sold all the units that whatever be sold because we were teaching people how to turn on the computer not have a measure motions and force in patients. They didn't care about that. They use a plastic protractor and so we figured that out and we had to restart the company, went from 32 people down to about eight in one day. Lucy: That's tough. Beth: And I believe that I had helped outplace...anybody who wanted to be outplaced in great jobs elsewhere, and I am friends with some of the people who left the company at that point for years. And some of my hired again into other companies. I feel good about it. I remember at the end I closed my door and I just cried because these were my friends. Lucy: We hear that a lot from entrepreneurs. I think that is a very tough thing to...not just let people go but it is theirs loss and also downsizing the company and restarting it. That is all tough stuff. Beth: Yeah. Perhaps to tell you that I learned in that experience that if I had done it sooner, everybody would have been happier. Both the people who did not fit the business we are getting into and the investors and everybody would have done better. So, my advice to entrepreneurs is don't be afraid to hire but don't be afraid to fire the person who is the wrong person for the job. You are not doing them or you any favors by keeping them around if they are not working. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: It is the truth. We have learned that lesson unfortunately in the Telecom downsizing. Well that's great advice and it gets us to our next question about advice for young people about entrepreneurship and you have given us some perils already. And I wander around online and I found some presentation you made about naming your company. What I found was pretty interesting. Beth: That is a new one. [laughs] I give that to an MIT class because I am still on the faculty there. So occasionally faculty members will call me up and ask me to come, give lecture to their class and the senior mechanical engineering design class didn't have a clue how to name their product. So I came and I gave a lecture. Lucy: That's good. I can't wait for your book. And so, what kind of advice would you give to budding entrepreneurs that you haven't already told us? Beth: I think the most important thing that I talk to any entrepreneur that I coached from day one is why are you doing this? What are your personal goals? What are your financial goals? How does that fit with your family? And if you evaluate that first and write it down and keep it in front of you and then say, is what I am doing today serving my goals, the company's goals and my family's goals? And when those things start to not match, that is when you get into trouble. And if you don't bother to figure it out first, then you don't have a road map because I made this mistake. I ran a company called Glow Dog which was a failure. It was a failure because we were just about break even and about a million plus in revenue and our Christmas shipments were on the water on 911. We had just grown to the size where we need to manufacture in China instead of the United States in order to compete and they were in the container on the ocean and they could not get in the United States so there was no Christmas. And we had to sell the assets and fold the company because I didn't feel like there was going to be a return on investment if I brought in more capital. But what I didn't think about when I started that company was what was the right size for this business and did that kind of a business match what I personally wanted to do? It was just interesting. People loved the product. They were reflective coating for people and pets. And you walking your dog at night, you don't get run over, right? Well, it turned out our customers were fashion stores in Tokyo who liked the logo I designed. I didn't even know it was reflective and it was a 33% margin business in an industry that is not very protectable and that I had no expertise in. What was I doing, doing this business? So, I raised a bunch of money to make a big play, before I realized that this really was a brand company, not a technology company. I raised the right amount of money for a technology company to get launched, but it turned out technology didn't matter, and to make a brand like Tommy Hilfiger or Ralph Lauren, you need tens of millions of dollars. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: ... and you need expertise, which I didn't have. So, if I had understood my own personal goals and what kind of a work environment I wanted, and what the end game looked like at the beginning, I probably wouldn't have made those mistakes. Because Glow Dog could have been a very profitable, between $2 and $10 million dollar clothing company and pet product company, if that was its goal. It wouldn't have raised as much money. It wouldn't have spent as much money, and it might still be around today. Larry: You obviously didn't know all your life that you were going to become an entrepreneur and since we're... Beth: I thought I was going to be an academic. Larry: There you go, see... Lucy: Well, you're that too, so there you go. Larry: A little change. Beth: So, I'm an academic. I play at academia. [laughter] Beth: I actually have on one occasion taken money from MIT to teach a class, and I realized that it was not for me. Because along with taking the money, comes a lot of faculty meetings and policies and procedures, and entrepreneurs don't really love those things. What's good about a company that's under 25 people is you don't need a huge amount of that stuff to be successful. Larry: Right. Beth: Some people are really good at structure and organization and detail, and that's not me. Larry: Not you, no. Well, then, what were the characteristics that made you really become a successful entrepreneur? We want to reach out this way, because we have many young people and employers and parents, who want to know what secrets they should look at when it comes to entrepreneurism. Beth: Certainly, like anything else it can be taught, and it can be learned over time. So, if you want to be an entrepreneur and you don't really understand what it is, go get a job or an internship with an entrepreneurial firm and get to know that person who started the company and watch them. Do it a couple of times. You'll learn whether it suits you or not. But in terms of what I think gives me an advantage; first of all, unbridled optimism to the point of stupidity at times. [laughter] Larry: I love it! Beth: You know, "You can't do that! You can't do that!" "Sure I can! Sure I can!" You know there is a limit, you beat your head against the wall a few times and you walk away, but hammering on and being tenacious at getting your objective. If it doesn't happen the way you think, you think of a second way. If it doesn't happen that way, you think of a third way. Maybe you don't end up accomplishing what you set out to do, but in the course of trying to accomplish it, you figure out where the real value is. So, it's a combination of being tenacious, and also being aware and being willing to change, and willing to take advantage of what God, the world, whatever, has presented to you in terms of opportunity. So, if you're trying to build widget A, and nobody wants widget A, but in order to make widget A, you had to make a fixture. And it turns out loads of people want that fixture, well go sell a fixture. Don't keep trying to sell a widget that nobody wants. Lucy: Exactly. I like that, 'unbridled optimism on the verge of stupidity.' I am just going to have to remember that one. Larry: I was looking in a mirror when you said that, yes. Beth: Also, you have to be able to learn from everybody around you. Lucy: That's totally right. Beth: Willing to talk about what you do in a pleasant way, not obnoxious, but to anyone who will listen. Because you never know where you're going to learn something, or who's going to have, "Gee. I know the guy who started that company that you want to have buy your company" or "Gee. I had a company like that, and we made this mistake" and so you can learn to avoid that mistake. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: Or somebody you want to hire. And don't be afraid to hire people who know a lot more than you do. Lucy: Totally. Beth: It's a matter of risk right. If you're an investor, and I've done some investing as well, you look at what's the total risk package for this business. And anything, absolutely anything you can do to reduce the risk is a good thing. And so the more experience you have that's relative to the business you're in, even if you don't know it yourself or understand it. It's going to reduce that risk. Lucy: Well and that's great advice I think. It's all pointing towards another interview I think Larry. Beth: You could have me talking for days. Lucy: I know. No, no ...I've got all kinds of plans for you know now. So you've already mentioned to us that you are a published poet and we know you're a judge for many years with First Robotics. What else are you doing to bring balance into your professional and personal lives? Beth: Well, I mean it's a struggle. I mean I'm a single mom, so there is no such thing as balance in my life. But, I do things like, I've got a calendar I just printed out this morning because I wasn't sticking to my exercise routine. And just like my daughter gets stars for reading books and she turns it in at school every month. I'm going to have her help me put stars on my calendar for my exercise. Lucy: Oh, that's nice. Beth: And I have family dinner night, where I cut off work early usually on Fridays, so that I can cook a meal. And we can sit down and eat together because it doesn't happen that often. And when I was growing up that was something that was somewhat absent and I wanted my daughter to have that, and I wanted me to have that too. Because, there is this idea that, when I was in the beginning of my entrepreneurial career, I obsessed about the business 24/7 and drove myself nuts. You know, I hardly slept, and that's not the best way to be productive. As I've gotten older, I work smarter. And so I do everything that I can do to make every minute of my time incredibly effective. If I'm having a bad day and I'm not productive. I'm not going to hammer my head against the computer or the telephone, which is where most of my work happens. I'll go and do something nice for myself for an hour. You know, call a friend, go have a coffee, or do an errand I need for my home. Go do some food shopping and come back. And then I'm refreshed and renewed. I listen to books on tape at night as I'm falling asleep so that I can't think about business at night. I love novels and I love fiction. So that for me blocks out my ability to think business. Lucy: That's a great idea. Larry: Yeah, it really is, wow. You know Beth, you have achieved so much in so many different ways. Going back to your first company that you ended up selling to Microsoft and all the other Wins and that challenges along the way. You've achieved a lot what's up for you next? Beth: I would like to have a huge exit in Playsmart. So if anybody is listening who wants to buy a company like that, that's the goal. To build this to where there is enormous excitement about the product and many, many families are using it. And then get a bigger company with huge resources behind it. And then I'll be happy to step back, finish my book and invest and advise in others. Lucy: Wow, and we would love to see you write that book. Larry: Boy, I'll say. Lucy: That would be I mean great, great advice here and we thank you for taking time to talk to us. I want to remind those who are listening to this interview that they can find it at W3W3.com. Larry: That's right and we'll have it up also on our blog as well as our podcast directory so you can download it 24/7. Lucy: Well, I'm pleased to pass it... Beth: And if there are there any moms of kids interested in Playsmart. That's at Playsmart send me an email, I'll make sure you find out about a product when it's out this summer. Lucy: Absolutely, and we'll have that as well in the bio up on the site. So everybody can find it when they come to download the podcast. Very good, well thank you very much. Larry: Thank you. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Beth MarcusInterview Summary: Beth Marcus has been Founder and CEO of several successful startups, most notably EXOS, Inc., which was venture-backed and sold to Microsoft in 1996. Since then she has been involved in 14 start-ups in a variety of fields as a founder, investor, or advisor. Release Date: January 22, 2010Interview Subject: Beth MarcusInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 24:00