Podcasts about mhm

EPISODE 80 of Five At The Door features an engaging conversation with T.J. and Steve from Ghost Town Remedy, two Nashville-based musicians who are making waves in their community. Join us as they share their journey, from their roots in folk music to the evolution of their unique sound and the exciting projects on the horizon.In this episode, T.J. and Steve discuss the challenges and joys of running their DIY festival, Jorts Festival, and the intricate balance of being artists while managing the demands of life and creative endeavors. They dive into the realities of the music industry, including the pressures of promoting their work in a digital age dominated by social media and streaming platforms. Listeners will gain insights into the complexities of booking shows, touring, and the importance of community within the Nashville music scene.The conversation also touches on their upcoming album, which promises to explore deeper themes and showcase a more dynamic sound, as they prepare to release their new single, "Doom Scroll." This track encapsulates the chaos of modern life and the struggle to stay connected in an overwhelming digital landscape. Get ready for a candid discussion about the highs and lows of being a musician today, and the passion that drives them to keep creating.Don't miss this episode as we delve into the vibrant world of Ghost Town Remedy, where creativity and community collide to create something truly special.Show notes penned by your favorite chronicler of the musical journey at Five At The Door.(00:00) Bird flu is working on a new album and touring this month(03:40) Doing this on the side is kind of a nightmare(10:08) Mhm. It's totally worth it. Like that 30 minutes on stage is worth the 12 to 24 hours(11:33) The band is planning a four-date tour with dad Hats(13:08) Over Wild started playing music in, what, 2012? Yeah, 2011(15:49) Why did you want to make the drum jump down to Nashville(19:03) How did you form Dry Spell? Did you do full band or something(21:47) This was your first tour and you had no idea what you were doing(25:34) You have been doing Ghost Town for close to a decade(28:36) What would you say is Nashville missing the most or that it does wrong(33:22) Going to the End is always a blast. Like it's really crazy to kind of watch the space(33:55) There's just so many cool places in Nashville to play. I think Nashville wise, especially, I think touring(37:44) East side bowl has technically three venues. There is the one by the bar(39:23) You have a new song called Doom Scroll coming out next week(43:09) Black: I think that's where brain damage comes from with ad overload(46:42) Have you guys seen the new season of Black Mirror? No, I haven't(47:16) Everyone needs to go see this movie, everyone, I highly recommend it(48:36) Black Mary's new album Itself is expected to come out next spring(51:51) Are you doing, uh. You're y' all are doing this by yourselves through your own record label(57:25) You have to wait longer to start releasing your singles because Spotify has rules(01:02:36) I still love when King Gizzard throws just another record of a year

In this powerful episode of Our Womanity, we sit down with Maisha Sullivan Ongoza, the visionary behind P.A.S.H.I. — the Pan-African Sisterhood Health Initiative. Maisha shares how this community-rooted organisation is tackling period poverty, reducing stigma around menstruation, and centering ancestral wisdom through eco-friendly, reusable menstrual products. From intergenerational teachings led by elders to engaging boys and men in the conversation, Maisha walks us through how P.A.S.H.I. is changing lives across the globe.What We Cover: The origin and mission behind P.A.S.H.I Why menstrual hygiene management (MHM) is a public health and dignity issue The power of reusable pads and eco-conscious period solutions The importance of involving elders as hands-on teachers How P.A.S.H.I. is shifting cultural norms by including men and boys Stories of impact from Philadelphia to Africa and the Caribbean How you can support or replicate this model in your own communityAbout P.A.S.H.I:P.A.S.H.I. empowers girls, women, and others by providing free, eco-friendly, reusable menstrual pads and education on life skills, reproductive health, and MHM. With over 47 global shipments and annual youth workshops in Philadelphia, P.A.S.H.I is restoring dignity and access one pad at a time.Impact Snapshot: 47+ pad shipments to Africa & the Caribbean since 2019Thousands of free menstrual and hygiene kits distributed Annual youth workshops teaching reusable pad creation Hands-on guidance from elders in the communityKey Quote from Maisha: "We're not just handing out products—we're rebuilding a sense of worth, reclaiming ancestral knowledge, and reminding our young people they are worthy of care, dignity, and tradition."Resources & Links:Website: www.pashiglobal.orgEmail: pashi.global@gmail.comPhone: (215) 385-0214Subscribe to Our Womanity wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review to help amplify women-led grassroots change around the world!

"Zuhören – Der unterschätzte Schlüssel erfolgreicher Führung“Du bist Führungskraft und kennst das Gefühl, dass echtes Zuhören in Meetings oder Feedbackrunden manchmal schwerfällt? Fragst du dich, wie du mit kritischem Feedback oder unklaren Antworten souverän umgehst – ohne in unproduktive Diskussionen oder langwierige Konflikte zu geraten?In dieser Episode nehmen dich Arno Fischbacher und Andreas Giermaier mit hinter die Kulissen gelungener Teamkommunikation. Du erfährst:Warum aktives Zuhören viel mehr ist als nur „Mhm“ zu sagen – und wie subtil deine Stimme verrät, was wirklich in dir vorgeht.Wie du Ungeduld oder innere Widerstände bei unangenehmen Rückmeldungen wahrnimmst und lernst, diesen Impuls gezielt zu steuern. So findest du schneller zurück in deine Führungsrolle – selbst in herausfordernden Situationen.Weshalb es gefährlich werden kann, wenn du dich nur von „Ja-Sagern“ umgeben lässt, und wie echtes, manchmal unbequemes Feedback nicht nur dein Team, sondern auch dich selbst wachsen lässt.Praktische Impulse, wie du Feedback und Kommunikation in deinem Team gezielt stärkst: Von Feedbackgesprächen auf Augenhöhe bis zu Strategien, die Echokammern verhindern.Den cleveren Trick, wie du gemeinsam mit deinem Gegenüber zu klaren, effizienten Absprachen kommst – statt dich in endlosen Ausflüchten zu verlieren.Was Emotionsmanagement in der Führungspraxis heißt und wie du aus der Reiz-Reaktions-Falle bewusst aussteigst.Du profitierst von ganz konkreten Praxisbeispielen und bekommst Impulse, die sofort in deinem nächsten Meeting funktionieren. Werde zur Führungskraft, die auch in emotionalen oder komplexen Situationen Klarheit vermittelt und durch authentische Kommunikation überzeugt.Hör rein und entdecke, wie du das Potenzial deiner Stimme und deines Zuhörens als Führungskraft gezielt nutzt – für mehr Wirksamkeit, Zufriedenheit und Erfolg im Team!Möge die Macht der Stimme mit dir sein — dein Stimme wirkt!-Team . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Gesprächspartner von Arno Fischbacher ist auch in dieser Episode Andreas K. Giermaier von https://lernenderzukunft.com/Dein Voicecoach Arno Fischbacher begleitet Dich auf Deinem persönlichen Weg von Stimm-Besitzer zum Stimm-Benutzer!✅ Hast Du Fragen? Schreib an podcast@arno-fischbacher.com✅ Du willst mit mir persönlich sprechen? Gern: https://arno-fischbacher.com/espresso

In this episode, host Amira Jehia (co-founder of Drip by Drip) speaks with Tsion Bahru, social entrepreneur, fashion designer and founder of MISS.T.CAL Apparel Design and Lily Pads Ethiopia. Together, they explore the complexities of Ethiopia's fashion and textile sector—from sustainability and water management, to the impact of political instability, the stigma around menstruation, and the everyday challenges faced by women and girls in rural areas. While sharing a positive outlook on the fashion sector, she offers a candid look into the double-edged impact of growth through BRICS and foreign investments - warning that mass production without cultural preservation, fair wages, and ethical safeguards could harm Ethiopia's rich textile heritage and environmental future. Tsion also shares the story behind the inception of Lily Pads Ethiopia, created after realizing that many women can't afford disposable pads and that MHM remains a critical challenge in rural regions. Herself and team carefully tailor distribution to areas with WASH infrastructure, ensuring their solution supports—not burdens—the communities they serve.

Bex Scott welcomes guest Lulu from Lulu J Vintage, a vintage costume jewelry collector and seller, to the show to teach her all about the joys of vintage costume jewelry. Lulu started collecting when she was sixteen years old and worked at the Carol Tanenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection through high school and university. She learned from amazing mentors about the history of jewelry and developed her own collection before starting to sell on Instagram last year. Bex finds out what jewelry Lulu loves best, her philosophy on collecting, and tips for testing authenticity. Lulu describes herself as a “very passionate collector” and her love of vintage costume jewelry shines through in her conversation with Bex. She describes some of her favorite vintage pieces and why she prefers certain styles over others. Though she says she's not a fashion historian, Lulu teaches Bex quite a lot about the history of costume jewelry and styles through the years. Bex learns about the current brooch resurgence, French designer Léa Stein, how to locate the lost mate of her solo Sherman earring, and how to test for true Bakelite. Lulu stresses that collecting should be about what someone loves, and what they're passionate about, not simply focused on what will sell or what's valuable. Join Bex and Lulu for a deep dive into vintage costume jewelry.Resources discussed in this episode:“Vintage Jewellery: Collecting and Wearing Designer Classics” by Caroline CoxKenneth J Lane vintageAvon rose broochCaroline Tanenbaum Vintage CollectionLéa Stein“Sherman Jewelry History” on VintageJewelryGirl.com“6 Ways to Identify Bakelite” by Pamela Wiggins on TheSpruceCrafts.comJoyce's ClosetBEX VintageMr. Mansfield Vintage—Contact Lulu | Lulu J VintageInstagram: @lulujvintageContact Rebecca Scott | Pyrex With Bex: Website: PyrexWithBex.comInstagram: @pyrexwithbex—TranscriptBex Scott: [00:00:02] Hey everybody, it's Bex Scott and welcome to the Pyrex with Bex podcast where you guessed it, I talk about vintage Pyrex, but also all things vintage housewares. I'll take you on my latest thrifting adventures, talk about reselling, chat with other enthusiasts about their collections, and learn about a bunch of really awesome items from the past. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love listening to podcasts so you don't miss a beat. Hey everybody, this is Bex Scott and you are listening to the Pyrex with Bex podcast. And today I am very excited to introduce to you Lulu of Lulu J vintage on Instagram. Welcome, Lulu. Lulu: [00:00:43] Thanks so much for having me Bex. Bex Scott: [00:00:44] Thanks for being here. So I found you through Instagram and I instantly fell in love with all of your education on vintage costume jewelry and your amazing reels. And every time you post, I want to buy all of the jewelry that you show. So I wanted to make sure I could get you on the podcast to educate my listeners on all of the amazing jewelry. I love jewelry, I have a massive collection of just random things from over the years. I don't wear a lot of it, but I have this thing where I need to buy it and just keep it in a jewelry box and then look at it. So I'm excited to learn from you today as well. Lulu: [00:01:27] I think that's how all collecting starts. You start with coins or jewelry or just things that you love, and it starts to turn in, even your beautiful books behind you and your collection. Bex Scott: [00:01:40] Yeah, it's funny how you don't realize that you're starting a collection. And then you look at everything around you, and you have about 40 more collections than you thought you did. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the world of vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:01:59] Absolutely. And so I am a very passionate collector of vintage costume jewelry. I've been collecting since I was 16 years old. I worked at the Carol Tannenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection throughout high school and university, and that was the place I just fell in love with it. I was immersed in jewelry. I learned so much from amazing mentors and learned a lot about the history, and slowly just started to build my collection over time. I began selling just on Instagram last year as really a creative outlet from my full-time job and a way to get back into this industry and to meet like-minded people. Bex Scott: [00:02:46] That's awesome. What is it about vintage costume jewelry that fascinates you the most? Lulu: [00:02:51] That's a great question. I mean, I think I've always been a jewelry girl. I loved playing dress up as a kid. Go through my nana's jewelry box? Yeah, just, I've always loved fashion. There was a period through, I guess, my teens where I thought I wanted to be a fashion designer or a jewelry designer, and working at Carol's Collection, it was really that place that started my interest in costume jewelry and becoming really fascinated with it. And it was just, it's more accessible than collecting, I'd say clothing because you can keep it in a jewelry box. You don't need to have a big closet. And yeah, that's where it started. Bex Scott: [00:03:31] And you can have multiple jewelry boxes and still hide them away. You can't have multiple closets as easily. Lulu: [00:03:39] No. It's true. We live in a small apartment, and my personal collection jewelry box keeps growing because it's one of those ones that stacks on top of each other. And then the pieces to sell, I have an Ikea unit and we keep it in our little more like a storage room den. And I think my fiance is very happy that it's just jewelry and not racks of clothes. Bex Scott: [00:04:09] I love that. I can relate to you mentioning going through your grandma's jewelry, because that's what I used to do with my granny when I was little. We'd go to her house and the first thing I do is run up to her bedroom and start undoing all of her clothes and her jewelry and going through her drawers. So, I don't do that anymore, because that would be strange. But that kind of started me with my tiny jewelry collection. Most of what I have is from her, passed down, and she always says she has a few more pieces that she needs to give me as well. So it's nice. Mhm. And have you come across any interesting or surprising stories behind some of the pieces that you have? Lulu: [00:04:55] Yeah, absolutely. I think in my personal collection, a lot of the pieces I have are of sentimental value or just pieces that I absolutely love. And I just would not want to sell. But I actually recently found a piece that I just sold that looked very 50s in the style, and the woman I bought it from thought it was from the 50s. And then when I went to do a bit more research about it, it turned out to be a 90s German bracelet, and it was marked Germany on the spring clasp. And that you only find that marking if it's pre-war or post, like the fall of the Berlin Wall. So it's really interesting that this piece looked very 50s, and it actually turned out to be newer from my vintage perspective, but kind of just shows that all like fashion is very cyclical. Even with vintage jewelry, you can, designers will look into the past. And yeah, I thought that was really cool. Bex Scott: [00:05:51] That is really cool. When you're researching the jewelry, do you often find things that are really surprising or is like from your experience, do you kind of understand most of what you've found now before you do the research? Lulu: [00:06:04] That's a great question. I think I have a good base knowledge of that history, having worked at Carol's Collection for a very long time. But you're always learning as you find new pieces or like, as I just said, I thought that piece was 50s. It turned out to be a 90s piece. I'm not a fashion historian. I went to school for graphic design not fashion design in the end. So I'm no expert, but you have to always keep learning and it's nice to like, get books. And when I find a piece that I don't know, I like so many Facebook groups that you can join to learn more or help identify pieces. So yeah, always, always you constantly learn as you go. Bex Scott: [00:06:47] Nice. I went to school for graphic design as well, so that's very cool to meet another graphic designer, and I think that partially put me into collecting as well, because it's so creative and like all the colors and the research, it's kind of goes hand in hand with that creative side of your brain. Lulu: [00:07:06] Absolutely. And I even say, like making content for social media, even though it's more screen time than my day job, it's still very creative. It's like a different type of creative muscle that you're flexing and with collecting too, it's yeah, just as you said, like finding different colors or pieces that are really unique. Yeah I love it as a creative outlet. Bex Scott: [00:07:30] Mhm. So what role do you think vintage costume jewelry has played in fashion history. Lulu: [00:07:37] Yeah great question. As I said I'm not a fashion historian. So I'm going to speak more generally on this. But I do think it's played a role especially for couture designers as a way to reach different audiences. I think like Chanel had clothing, but they also had jewelry, and so that became a little bit more accessible. There's a designer, Kenneth Jay Lane, who had a couture costume collection of jewelry. But then it was like, I want to make sure that my audience is more broad and actually sold on Avon. So it's like it made it more, I think, accessible in that sense. Bex Scott: [00:08:22] Neat. I think I've heard that name before. I wouldn't know any of the pieces, but... Lulu: [00:08:28] So his pieces are in the 60s, and some of his couture pieces are these, like beautiful, like chandelier earrings, really colorful with, like, it's called, like diamante, fake diamonds all around it. And then if you ever see says KJL or Kenneth Lane, those are... Bex Scott: [00:08:47] Okay. Lulu: [00:08:47] And then his, his stuff for like, Avon is very different than that. But it's neat need to see the range of work how it, and over different time as well. Bex Scott: [00:08:59] Mhm. Mm. You brought up Avon and I'm kind of curious how do you feel about Avon Jewelry and some of the vintage. I find so much of it. Lulu: [00:09:10] That's a great question. And I actually just bought a lot of jewelry from a collector who, like, only shopped on the shopping channel, and it was all Avon and like KJL, Joan Rivers, like really fun 80s 90s like Gold Tone. And I like it. I think it really, I only buy what I like. So it to me, it doesn't matter if it's a piece really old like from, you know, like 20s or 30s to a 90s piece from Avon. Like, if you like the style and it speaks to you, I say you should buy it. Bex Scott: [00:09:47] Exactly. I keep finding that Avon Rose. You probably know which one it is. It's the gold stem with the little red top. The brooch. Every time I buy jewelry in, like, a big lot, there's about four of them in there. So I think I have a mini collection of just the Avon Rose. Do you see a resurgence in the popularity of vintage costume jewelry, and how can people kind of incorporate it into their modern wardrobes? Lulu: [00:10:15] I definitely think there is a resurgence, especially like the past year and a half of like, the year of the brooch and everyone wearing brooches. And I mean, you see that even with fine jewelry like that trend. But costume is a way that's more accessible. So you're not spending thousands of dollars on a brooch. You can spend it at a more accessible price point. And it's nice to see, like my clients range in age. So I do think it's popular just with different people and it's coming back. Bex Scott: [00:10:45] Mhm. I love it, I like that the younger generation is starting to wear more jewelry and finding fun ways to wear brooches, whether it's their grandmothers or passed down from family, or if they're just collecting it themselves. I think it's really, really fun and refreshing. Totally. Are there certain designers or brands that shaped the industry and are especially collectible today? Lulu: [00:11:11] I think that really depends on where you're from and what type of jewelry you like to collect. I collect primarily North American and few European designers, but as I said, like really, if I see something I love, it can be from anywhere, it just has to speak to me. There's many costume designers and I actually would recommend this book, it's called Vintage Jewelry Collecting and Wearing Vintage Classics by Caroline Cox. It's a nice overview of fashion history, but specifically from a jewelry perspective. And it showcases different designers throughout different decades. It's been a great resource. There's a lot of other great books out there too, but I just like that it shows that different designers. Bex Scott: [00:11:59] I think that sounds great. Lulu: [00:12:00] For myself, I really love her name is Léa, Léa Stein, and she was a French designer who made buttons, brooches and bangles all out of compressed layers of plastic. So it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:12:16] That sounds cool. Lulu: [00:12:17] And like they created a lot of unique designs and patterns. And they're really fun brooches. They're just like, I have one umbrella. I have like a little girl. Some flowers are so fun. And I love, like, plastic jewelry. So it's definitely like she's one of the like the renowned plastic artists. And from a Canadian perspective, Sherman Jewelry is definitely the most collectible. He really used amazing like high quality rhinestones, particularly those aurora borealis stones, and it's really sought after. There's a huge community out there of Sherman collectors. Bex Scott: [00:12:56] I think that's one of the Facebook groups that I'm a part of, and it's always fascinating to see how many different Sherman pieces there were and how some were signed and some weren't. So it's hard to tell if you have one or you don't, and... Lulu: [00:13:11] Totally. And it's neat to see too, that like, there's so many different variations of his jewelry, but then there are some styles that I keep seeing, like, I actually just bought a brooch, it's one of the pinwheel brooches. And I feel like now every time I'm on that Facebook group, that style always pops up. And it's like nice to see. I love when I find other collectors who have similar pieces to you because it's so rare because there's the quantity of the jewelry is a lot smaller back then. So, it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:13:48] That's fun. I have a couple, I have two sets of Sherman earrings, and then I have a bundle that I bought at an auction, and it came with only one lone Sherman earring. And it's the prettiest earring I've ever seen. And it's just gonna sit there alone forever. Lulu: [00:14:06] You could take it to a jeweler and, like, put it on a necklace or something. You want to do-- Bex Scott: [00:14:11] -- That's a good idea-- Lulu: [00:14:12] -- something with it? Bex Scott: [00:14:13] Yeah. I was thinking they should have kind of like a dating app, but for lost jewelry, where you swipe to find the missing pair of your earring. Lulu: [00:14:24] I will find it for you. I actually think I follow one Instagram that's like to find people's pairs. Like she just has single earrings. She might be based in the US, but I'll follow up with them for you. Bex Scott: [00:14:37] That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. So what would you say are some of the key differences between costume jewelry from different decades. You know, there's so much of it. But even 1920s versus 1960s or now, what would you say are some of the key differences? Lulu: [00:14:55] Yeah, that's a great question. I think the big differences are the materials that are used and as well as like how it mirrored fashion trends at the time. So as I said, I love 60s plastic. And there's so much plastic jewelry that's very like mod and colorful and like really reflective of that style. And so it really just depends on the decade and that example that I said like something that looked 50s but actually was 90s. You just need to do a bit more research on. Bex Scott: [00:15:31] Yeah. What would you say about quality. Do you think it's gotten better? Has it gotten worse? Is it kind of the same? Lulu: [00:15:39] Yeah, that's a great question. I don't collect as much contemporary costume and I've just been a vintage collector for so long. But I will say it's amazing the quality of vintage jewelry, that there are pieces that can last hundreds of years. Yeah, I have a necklace that was one of the first pieces of costume jewelry that I ever got. And this is like beautiful, Czech glass necklace. It's cherry red. I wear it all the time. It's so fun. And it's like 100 years old now. It's from the 20s and yeah, it's still in amazing shape. So the fact that it really stands the test of time is quite amazing. No obviously on everything, but a lot of pieces and especially those designer pieces, if you are following and collecting specific people. Bex Scott: [00:16:33] It's kind of fun to think we collect vintage jewelry now, what is it going to be like 100 years from now? Will the jewelry that we're making now still be around, or will it be all broken and degraded? Lulu: [00:16:47] Totally. I mean, there's so much I've seen online, even from a fashion perspective of, like going to thrift stores and a lot of it being fast fashion clothing. And it's not the quality that it was in the past. And so really high quality vintage pieces are harder to come by. Bex Scott: [00:17:09] Have to hold on to them when you find them. Lulu: [00:17:11] Definitely. Bex Scott: [00:17:13] Are there specific gemstones or materials commonly used in vintage jewelry that we don't see as often today? Lulu: [00:17:20] Yes. So this is a great question. And I immediately thought of Bakelite. I don't... Bex Scott: [00:17:26] Yeah. Lulu: [00:17:27] It's one of my favorite things to collect, as I've said many times, I'm a huge plastic collector. So Bakelite, 60s plastic, all of it I just love. And you really don't see Bakelite anymore because it's a type of plastic that had formaldehyde in it. And that wasn't, pretty much stopped using that after the 40s. And so it's very rare, hard to come by and really collectible. Bex Scott: [00:17:55] I think I have a Bakelite bracelet and, let me know if this is true, but somebody said that you can warm it up and it has a smell, and that's how you know, if it's Bakelite. Lulu: [00:18:05] So you have to like, you warm it up either, and like, I usually just like use my thumb on the Bakelite and just rub it a little and then it will smell like formaldehyde and, you know, it's Bakelite. So it's also like the, I don't know how to describe it other than the, like, softness of the plastic. It's a lot softer than other types of plastic. So it has a different feel as well. Bex Scott: [00:18:34] I'm going to go and smell all my bracelets now. So what advice do you have for someone who wants to start collecting vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:18:49] Yeah. I think they should just collect what they love. Everyone should do their research and learn about the history if they want to collect specific designers. But I think by collecting what you love, you just, you're more passionate about it and you enjoy the pieces more. And it's not about, it's not always about a resale value. It's about how you enjoy the pieces as well. Bex Scott: [00:19:14] I like that, that's, I feel like can be applied to so many different things where especially with things like Pyrex, you collect what you like and there's people on groups who post and say is this a good price for it or should I get it? Should I leave it? And I always like the responses that are, well, if you like it, then nothing, nobody else's opinion should really matter. Just collect it because you want it in your home and you want to use it. And that's all that really matters. Lulu: [00:19:41] Exactly. And like Pyrex especially, it's something that you'll use often like we have like the butterfly set that was my fiance's grandparents and I just love them. Bex Scott: [00:19:57] That's so special. Lulu: [00:19:57] I, we use them every day. And so it's like a reminder of something of them, but also just that it's nice to have in your house. Bex Scott: [00:20:07] Yeah, I love that. And for people who have vintage costume jewelry, is there a good way to store the pieces to keep them in good condition? Lulu: [00:20:16] So I would suggest laying them flat when you can. I learned the very hard way not to keep a necklace on one of those, like necklace trees for a long time. It was this beautiful, like, beaded hand strung necklace. I went to put it on and it just completely broke. Bex Scott: [00:20:35] Oh, no. I never even thought of that. Maybe, does it make it weak? From sitting on the tree? Lulu: [00:20:42] The weight of it, of the beads. And because they were glass beads and like the thread over time, like it could wear. And so lay flat, not don't bend things harder if you have limited space, but just treat it as any other jewelry if you want it to last. You want to take good care of it. Bex Scott: [00:21:03] Yeah. What's the best way to clean the jewelry? Lulu: [00:21:06] That's a good question. I find for like, anything with like, sterling or like gold tone, you can get these like, polishing cloths. So I find that better than, like a sterling and... Bex Scott: [00:21:22] Like an actual paste or a cleaner or something. Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:25] I personally find it a lot better. It's hard with dust, so like you could use those cloths as well just to dust things, dust things off. But if you lay things flat and like in jewelry boxes, that's the best way to store and keep things clean because they're not out in areas collecting a lot of dust. Bex Scott: [00:21:45] That sounds good. I need to do some rearranging and shifting of how I have things stored now. Lulu: [00:21:52] It's okay. I mean, I do have a few things that are on top of each other, but. Bex Scott: [00:21:57] Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:57] It's best if you can. So you can give the piece some space. Bex Scott: [00:22:02] That sounds great. And where can people find you online to give you a follow? And where can they shop for your jewelry? Lulu: [00:22:09] Absolutely. So online I'm just on Instagram. It's at Lulu J vintage. You'll see my content as well as you can always send me a message if there's anything particular that you're looking for, because I only post a few of the pieces that I have either online or in store. And if you're in Calgary, I am at two local shops, so I'm at Joyce's Closet Boutique, which is in Kensington, and I'm at BEX Vintage and Mr. Mansfield's Vintage in the Beltline. They're really awesome mid-century furniture shop. Bex Scott: [00:22:46] Very cool. I've been meaning to go to all of those places. And just so everybody knows, the BEX Vintage has nothing to do with me. We are two separate people. Just in case. Just the same name. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Lulu for being on the podcast. I learned a ton today, and I can't wait to go and organize my jewelry and keep collecting. Lulu: [00:23:10] Thank you so much Bex, this is really great and nice to chat jewelry with you. Bex Scott: [00:23:16] Yeah. Everybody go and give Lulu a follow on Instagram. 

Mhm.Link zum Discord: ⁠https://discord.gg/lcbrain⁠Link zur Spotify-Playlist: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3tf6uIjYQM7wHKtgQYJOcq?si=zl6stYe_SpmwqSBzBEt5vQ⁠⁠endlichkaufen.de⁠

UNiTE Food is a Yorba Linda, California-based company that produces globally inspired protein bars. The brand offers unique flavors such as Churro, Mexican Hot Chocolate, and PB & Jelly, aiming to bring diversity to the wellness industry. Each bar provides around 10 grams of protein and is gluten-free, catering to health-conscious consumers seeking both nutrition and nostalgic tastes. Clara often relied on protein bars during her busy career but found the available flavors uninspiring. Drawing from her diverse culinary background, she recognized a gap in the market for culturally diverse flavors. Clara's father is an entrepreneur. Her family immigrated from Sudan when she was five years old. When they arrived in the United States, her father started a plumbing supply distribution business, which is the business Clara worked in earlier in her career. The idea for UNiTE was something Clara started thinking about in 2018 or 2019 while she was still working in her family's plumbing business. She began experimenting with different recipes and products in her kitchen in the early days of the pandemic in 2020.Clara often visits ethnic markets to learn about new flavors for new products. She also studied flavors and what people were eating when she traveled abroad.  QUOTES “If I'm anything, I'm a very curious person. I'm curious about how the world works and I'm curious about why segments of the population aren't being served.” (Clara) “If you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. If you create value, why would somebody leave you?” (Clara)“For me, it was about making sure we were taking care of our customers. That was the winning strategy. It sounds really simple, but it's way harder to execute.” (Clara)“Business is a framework. Once you understand product liability, you understand how to insure against it. You learn about the certifying bodies in your industry. It's hard and it's not (hard).” (Clara)“It's really about building relationships. Mutually beneficial relationships.” (Clara) “When you're over 40 and you created a new business, you're usually not doing it for money, you're doing it to try to make the world a better place.” (Clara)“I wanted to find common ground. Let's find flavors that will resonate with lots of people.” (Clara)“The essence of the UNiTE brand is to seek to understand and seek to find common ground instead of focusing on how we're different.” (Clara)“At the end of the day, consumers want authenticity and they want brands that create products that are meaningful to them. (Clara)“I don't really worry about copycat brands. I worry more when they stop copying me.” (Clara) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.49vigorbrandingAll right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone. Our guest today is Clara Paye. And I’ve known Clara for a long time. ah She is from Unite Foods. ah Unite’s line of nutritious bars are built around the concept of global flavors, but also comfort foods. Clara has started a brand that’s redefining what protein and nutrition bars can be, and I’m happy to have her as a guest. Clara, welcome. 00:25.55Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michael. Good to be here. 00:27.85vigorbrandingSo again, I know you, I think pretty well, and I’m excited to excited for this. This will be fun. So um I want to go back. I mean, you have a fascinating story. So before we get into Unite, I want to talk about you. How did you, you know, where where do you come from? Where do you, where did you work? You know, talk a little bit about what got you, got you here. 00:46.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, it’s definitely not been a linear path. It’s been really a path led by my own curiosity in the world. And so I think if I’m anything, I’m a very curious person. I’m curious how the world works. I’m curious why, you know, segments of the population aren’t being served. So my journey really started, you know, undergrad, I went to USC and I really went undeclared and thought I but wanted to be a lawyer and. 01:10.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEgot into one political science class and I was like, no, I definitely don’t want to do this. And so kind of was looking around like what else is out there, found the business school at USC, and more importantly, found the entrepreneurship program, which was number one in the nation at the time. And, you know, and I knew I didn’t want to study accounting or finance, and that’s what business was to me in my mind back then. And finding this entrepreneurship route really like kind of opened up the world to me and was like a light bulb. 01:34.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know My dad is an entrepreneur. and We immigrated from Africa and the Sudan when I was five years old. And in Africa, he had an automotive parts distribution business. And when he immigrated to the U.S., he started a plumbing manufacturing and hardware distribution business. And so, you know, having a dad that had kind of modeled entrepreneurship, it was demystified for me. And so I was like, oh, that’s really interesting. You know, I’ve been an entrepreneur kind of since I was a little girl, whether, you know, the classic lemonade stand or side popsicles or, you know, drawing pictures and trying to sell them to my aunts. Like, you know, I always had that entrepreneurial 02:07.53Clara Paye _ UNiTEstart and you know funny and but like at USC I remember them taking a poll of all the entrepreneurship kids and how many of them had like a lemonade stand or something similar as a kid and it was like 95% of the class raised their hand right like it’s something almost innate where you know that entrepreneurship bug grabs you was even a little kid and 02:15.32vigorbrandingMm 02:24.37Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, you know, going into the entrepreneurship program, it was kind of like and equated to like Ted Talks, where you just got to like hear and listen to these really successful entrepreneurs that had launched and they were normal people with good ideas that they just implemented. 02:36.22vigorbrandinghmm. 02:38.93Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I thought I would you know be an entrepreneur straight out of undergrad. I wrote a business plan um and for the apparel industry back then. this is I’ll date myself, but I graduated in 1999 and in 1998, 99. I wrote a business plan for plus size clothing for teenage girls. So I saw that there was this huge segment of the population where kids were kind of, you know, Americans were growing in size. and there weren’t really anything fashionable for young girls to wear if they were plus size. They had to shop, you know, especially in jeans, they had to start in the, you know, shop in the women’s Husky department, women’s department or the boy’s Husky department. And it really wasn’t anything fashionable. And I wrote this great business plan. All my professors told me to do it. And like the only person I knew that had any money was my dad. 03:21.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, being 21 years old and or, you know, barely 21 and asking him to fund, you know, I needed like $30,000 back then to launch this business. And my I was going to do it with my best friend whose father had just invested in the jeans manufacturing plant. 03:34.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEShe had done the entrepreneurship program the year before. It was like this home run idea. The internet was just coming online and we were going to do it all online. We didn’t need storefronts. You know, we’re kind of kind of revolutionize all of these things. 03:44.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd my dad’s like, what? Huh? Like watch yourself humming products. Yeah. 03:48.78vigorbrandingYeah. 03:50.42Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, this is a business that already exists. And he just didn’t see it, didn’t understand. But it’s it’s ironic that like that business would grow on to be like that segment specifically, um where I did all my research at this mall, like, went on to become a billion dollar business, like Torrid went into the same free mall with the same concept. And so that was kind of like always in the back of my mind, my entire career. So from age 20 to now, like, gosh, like, why I should have done that, like, I should have done something like that, you know, why didn’t I try and um I’m telling a really long part of the story so we can edit this, but it’s really like, you know, for me, it was really about that early experience in entrepreneurship that I held on to, but then I would go on. 04:22.93vigorbrandingOh, it’s great. 04:29.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEand work in cosmetics, worked for advertising agencies, you know, um and then eventually my dad lured me into the family business, which was like, you know, about five years after college, I wanted to get my MBA and he said, hey, I’ll make you a deal. You and your best friend want to come work for me, get your and MBAs and I’ll pay for them. And you just have to stay the time that you’re studying. And, you know, we did this executive MBA program where we worked our nine to five and then we went to school from like six to 10. 04:53.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd those are long days, but they were really fun because I got to take what I was learning in the MBA program and immediately apply it to my family business, which was, again, the plumbing and hardware distribution business. And so not that I was in love with plumbing and hardware, like, trust me, if I never see another supply line in my life, it’ll be too soon. But um it was really about this unique experience that I got to learn and apply, learn and apply. And it was just Really? um Really what set me up for like, you know in that curiosity to like really make an impact in my family business Where you know, sometimes when you join a family business you get told well, this is how we’ve always done it So this is why you have to do it this way and for me I got to kind of redefine everything Because of this MBA program that I was doing and my dad trusted, you know, he always had a high regard for education And so was like, okay. Well, yeah, let’s try it and really got you know got in and 05:45.11vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. i mean You bring up a really interesting point, though. Being a so a sibling of an entrepreneur, you you kind of do realize, or you maybe you don’t realize that it’s it’s not easy, but you you know it’s it’s doable, right? If you watch your father do it, like my father had a couple small sporting goods stores. So I thought, well, if you want to start a business, you just go out and start it. You just do it. and You know, my story is I’ve never been smart enough to know what I can’t do. So I’m like, Oh yeah, I can do that. And just, you know, and sometimes you pass, sometimes you fail, but you know, it’s like, Oh, I can try that. Oh yeah, I’ll do that. So, but, but I think our parents really do make it easier for us if they’ve done that, you know, and you sort of, I don’t want to say you take it for granted, but it’s sort of like, it seems doable. It seems attainable, you know, and next thing you know, you you’ve got something special. And I’ll say this, it had to be interesting, difficult, and maybe very educational for you. 06:34.52vigorbrandingah being a young woman in and the and the plumbing supply distribution business. I mean, what was that like? 06:40.78Clara Paye _ UNiTEah You know, it was it’s a very old industry. It’s you know very much like there’s very little product innovation. And so for me, being a curious person, I was always trying to learn. I always wanted to go to like plumbing school. So like I could like learn about the products a little bit more because they’re actually really complex. And if you ever go down a hardware store aisle and you go down the plumbing fittings or the plumbing section, I mean, there’s literally thousands and thousands of SKUs and so many different parts to like toilets and you know faucets and it’s it’s a very confusing um you know you have to have like a lot of deep knowledge in the industry to really make an impact so for me you know i knew i was never going to have that right what i could bring to the table was really an outside the box way of thinking about this industry like you know we created the company’s first website and started selling you know online and really trying to 07:28.80Clara Paye _ UNiTEUm, quantify customer experience, right? Like it wasn’t just about like place, you know, filling orders. It was like, what was the experience of that order for your customer? And so I’ve always been a customer centric leader. So I think it’s because I came up through marketing and entrepreneurship. You know, I really care about the customer and I really care about like the person that’s opening the box, whatever that box is, you know, and so. 07:51.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor me, it was all about aligning the business to be customer-focused, because my thesis was, if you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. 08:01.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEright It’s a win-win. 08:02.46vigorbrandingmean 08:03.15Clara Paye _ UNiTEIf you create value, why would somebody leave you? So it’s when you’re not creating value and you’re creating problems for the customer that you know you have that attrition. 08:13.25Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so for me, it was really about um making sure that we were taking care of our customers. And and that was the winning strategy. I mean, it sounds really simple, but it’s way harder to execute when you get to scale. 08:26.05vigorbrandingThat’s great. I mean, it makes total sense. So basically, you do all your own plumbing now, is that what you’re saying? 08:31.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEnot at all 08:32.01vigorbrandingYeah, I knew about it. Okay, so now let’s jump into something that I know you’re very proud of and should be. the that You founded Unite, okay? and And so let’s talk about that. You founded in March of 2020, right? 08:44.85vigorbrandingIn the middle of that thing called the pandemic with COVID. um but Obviously, that was a part of the story. That’s what sort of infused the story. Can you talk a little bit about that? 08:53.69Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. So, you know you know, I’d been ideating on it for like probably a year and a half before that and really trying, you know, it was working in the plumbing business at my, you know, and the family business that I was kind of like stuck behind my desk. And especially when I became a mom, like I was always just like looking for quick fuel to get me through my day. And that was like kind of when I had the epiphany for Unite and really our main point of differentiation is that we use global flavors. 09:15.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I had this unique experience, again, just just like the plus sized clothing where I was like, wait a minute, like there’s this whole population of people out there, like half the population are immigrants, people like me, or people that are just like really interested in other cultures and really interested in other foods. 09:31.28Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, I live in LA, like there’s, you can eat Thai, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, whatever you want, any time of day you want, you know, it’s all, you know, and that’s what makes America unique is that we are this melting pot of cultures. 09:38.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 09:42.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it very similarly, I saw this demographic shift where, you know, America was just going to continue to grow in, in multiculturalism. And so I was like, okay, if you’re in wellness and you are diagnosed with something like for me, it was a gluten intolerance. Like, and you go and try to find diet compliant food and you go to the shelf and like nothing resonates with you. Like that’s a huge miss. And so I think it was because 10:08.08vigorbrandingbut 10:08.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, i I’m not, everybody that has created protein bars up to that point wasn’t diverse, didn’t have the life experience I had. So I just kind of used my own life experience it to develop it. 10:18.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I developed them in my kitchen, like really, like, you know, as I got my cuisine on out and was like, what would I put in my protein bars? And for me, it was like almond butter and dates and, you know, let’s sweeten it with all natural things. 10:25.68vigorbrandingMm hmm. 10:28.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I i can’t use sugar, alcohols or Stevia. Like I i just, they’re not palatable to me. So I just use natural things. and literally googled what do nutritionists say should be in a protein bar and like made those my macros like it’s not that hard you know you don’t have to like spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to figure it out and um created my first recipes and found a co-packer to make them and I knew you know because I didn’t want any food liability I wanted a really strong co-packer to be the producer for them found one that ah you know where they saw the vision they understood what we were about and supported us and got our product launched and 11:05.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, Expo West was this trade show, you know, it was a trade show in the food industry. It’s the largest natural products convention in the entire world. And if anybody hasn’t been to it, just imagine seven convention centers all smashed together in Anaheim, hundreds of thousands of people, like 3000 plus exhibitors. It’s literally and figuratively like Disneyland. Like it’s just, it’s a zoo. It’s, there’s so many people. And we got our little 10 by 10 booth and at the, you know, they have this like new products part of natural expo that opens a day before or used to. 11:35.43Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we got our booth set up and we were ready to rock. 11:37.30vigorbrandingMm hmm. 11:37.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEWe were going to go show our bars. We had this whole warehouse full of new bars to show buyers. 11:39.71vigorbrandingand 11:41.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s how it’s going to get people excited. And then the pandemic. And that was the first thing to get canceled. And literally we got this call like shows not going to happen. So break down your booth. 11:51.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, and it was like such a wild time. 11:52.43vigorbrandingYep. 11:55.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And people were really, you know, unsure of what was going to happen. And, you know, ah brands were not able to get into stores to pitch or any buyers, everything kind of went on hold because every grocery store was worried about safety for their employees and how to keep cleaning products on shelf and Lysol wipes. 12:13.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like nobody was really thinking about like protein bars, right? 12:16.49vigorbrandingRight, right. 12:16.43Clara Paye _ UNiTELike we’re all trying to, you know, that’s what like, I think we all were baking banana bread every day in this power now and like, you know, consoling ourselves with chips and margaritas at, you know, noon. so 12:26.31vigorbrandingYeah. Well, I remember like for us, I mean, you know, one of my companies is Quench, which is a CPG food and beverage. I said, you know, COVID was truly the greatest sampling program in the face of the earth, food and beverage. If you made a product at that time, if you had an established product, you people bought it, people ate it, they put in their pantry, they stacked in their shells. I mean, it was phenomenal time for food. I mean, unfortunately, it was you were too new, right? You couldn’t even take advantage of it. You didn’t even get a chance to get out of the starting gate. so That’s how to be extremely disappointing. But I think it’s amazing too. Like, okay, so you you come from one industry and and you learn a lot just in business and dealing with people from one industry. But then you you applied to this startup that you didn’t, you’ve never really, you were never in the food business. So you don’t learn how to be a manufacturer, you had to learn about safety, you had to learn about ingredients, legal and and everything and anything. I mean, it’s just, ah it’s an amazing undertaking. How did you how did you learn so much? 13:21.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, like business is a framework. So once you understand product liability, you understand how to ensure against it, right? And you learn that, you know, you have to look, what are the certifying bodies in your industry, right? 13:35.40Clara Paye _ UNiTELike in, you know, for electrical companies, it’s like UL listing, you know, in food, it’s SQF. 13:35.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 13:40.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s not like the information isn’t that hard to find. So I think it’s like, you know, once you have a framework of, it’s, you know, the product is a widget almost, right? Like how you deal with Lowe’s is how you deal with Target. 13:49.40vigorbrandingMm 13:52.55Clara Paye _ UNiTELike it’s a big box. 13:52.83vigorbrandinghmm. 13:53.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEThey care about many of the same things, right? You have to understand what’s going to happen on the back end of your business. You have to understand how to get that product there on time and in full. And that’s what matters to them. 14:04.49Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I, you know, it’s hard and it’s not. And so for me, I’ve always really relied on my network, Michael, like, like if I don’t know the answer, I know somebody that I know must know the answer. 14:16.44vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:17.09Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I spent a lot of time. I don’t want to say networking, but I think it’s really about building relationships, like mutual like mutually beneficial relationships with people, trust. 14:26.75vigorbrandingSure, trust. 14:29.50Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd when I got into the food space, I was like, I just need to great advisors around me. I need people. 14:33.78vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:33.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I didn’t want like consultants. I wanted people who were also running their businesses, who were going in the trenches, doing it with in in real time. 14:38.08vigorbrandingSure. Skin the game. Yep. 14:41.79Clara Paye _ UNiTEand so you know, having a ah YPO forum of YPO, you know, food CPG people was like one of the ways that I accomplished that and like really creating a forum of people around me that were doing the same things as I was. 14:50.42vigorbrandingMm 14:56.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, there’s a lot of symbiotic um experience there. And we all got to go through COVID together. So it was something I did early on, you know, it was like grabbing people who wanted to go on this journey with me. 15:02.72vigorbrandinghmm. Mm hmm. 15:06.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, You know you’re I think networking is like kind of like a bad word sometimes like people think it’s like you’re using people when you say networking but you’re doing networking right you’re actually at creating value for other people first right and that out it works. 15:13.24vigorbrandingwho yeah 15:20.16vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So now let’s talk. You created the, the you had a product, you you got shut down and covered. So let’s talk about the Unite name. You created a brand and I’m a big brand guy, you know that. I love brands and and I love what you did here. I love the name and I’m not just saying that because you’re here, but this is something I did not know. I read an article and I read about the I in Unite. I should have looked and realized that the lowercase I, but to talk about the brand and how you came up with the name. 15:45.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I mean, so for me is all about that what I was trying to do. So this is like the mission part of like this journey when like you’re over 40 and you’re creating new business. Usually you’re not doing it just for money. You’re really doing it because you feel like something’s missing in the world and you want to make the world a better place. At least that’s my journey. 16:01.60Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd for me, it was like, how can I use food as this instrument of inclusion to improve the lives of people, see people who haven’t been seen, welcome them into wellness, right? And kind of create cultural bridges, right? Where like somebody who I think food is has this unique way of binding people, right? Like it’s the cultural equivalent of bringing your, you know, 16:23.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEyour dish to a potluck and like you know kind of like do you like it you know kind of like yeah having that like you know there’s a moment where you’re like are you sure it’s kind of a little strange or like you know when when people used to come to my home and like be like you know my mom made this thing you don’t have to eat it it’s you know you might not like it and then people loving it and you’re like oh Okay, it’s good. Like it’s safe. Like everyone’s accepted now. And so I think for me, it was like how, you know, food can, can also divide people. But if people make fun of somebody’s food or make fun of flavors, you know, and I think it also can unite. And so I wanted to use it as like, you know, let’s, let’s find common ground. Let’s find flavors that like will resonate with lots of people. And so like the flavors we choose typically are not just like country specific. They’re like region specific. 17:04.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo like, you know, churros are eaten in Spain, in Mexico, and like all over Latin America, right? Baklava is eaten in North Africa, in Greece, in Russia, in Croatia, right? 17:15.03Clara Paye _ UNiTEBubble tea, which sounds like just an Asian, Asian flavor. And yes, it was born in Taiwan, but you know, like but the British drink milk with tea. the in Indian people drink milk with tea, and the Middle East drink milk with tea. 17:25.54Clara Paye _ UNiTELike those flavors are, can resonate with lots of different people. 17:29.23vigorbrandingYeah. 17:29.53Clara Paye _ UNiTESo, and then there’s peanut butter and jelly, and that’s the one where people are like, 17:31.64vigorbrandingYeah. 17:32.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEhuh like you know that’s like that’s not global but it’s like my american heritage is just as important and so i want all people to feel represented and the reason the eye is small and as i think because if you’re trying to connect two sides you yourself have to get smaller to understand the other side and so that you you know to understand the other you know and we live in such a time of division and so like really having a name like unites like it’s really the essence of the brand 17:37.39vigorbrandingyeah 17:58.39Clara Paye _ UNiTEis to, you know, ah seek to understand and seek to find common ground and instead of like how we’re different. 18:05.96vigorbrandingI love it. i mean You obviously have a propensity for for marketing. it’s it’s It’s very smart and very sound, the thinking behind it. and and I’ve had the products that are fantastic. and again I’m not just saying that they’re your your products are absolutely delicious, so you should be very, very proud of that. 18:21.31vigorbrandingum you know and now So we talk about the flavors, so ah we do a food trends presentation every year and we always come up with all these funky flavors and and we we I shouldn’t say funky, we we we learn about things that are popping in different parts of the world and starting to you know bubble up and and and ah you know we we try to grab onto them, I mean all of us as manufacturers, as restaurants, as ah marketers And we try to understand these flavors and how to bring them forth and and introduce something fresh. how do How do you go about finding flavors? How do you go about deciding what the next flavor is going to be? 18:54.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEit’s really intuitive for me but like you know my my hero flavor is churro and like that one was really you know born out of you know I live near Disneyland I live like 15 minutes away and I have small kids and so we were always at Disneyland always the line at the churro cart was kind of like around the corner right and like churro was like definitely this very familiar flavor and like churros are you know they’re eaten they’re They’re not just different for different sake. Many people have had a churro, whether it’s at a fair or at Disneyland or at a carnival. Churro was like not that um outside the box for most people, and it was very approachable. and so like That Disneyland car, just like looking at the lines, I was like, yeah, that could be a really good flavor. How come nobody you know hasn’t really done that? and then 19:44.35Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, I would visit ethnic markets a lot to look at the flavors. 19:47.44vigorbrandingSure. 19:47.62Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I go to Hispanic markets, I go to Korean markets, I go to Japanese markets, you know, I live in an area again, where I’m blessed by diversity. And so I study, you know, when I travel, what are people eating? 19:59.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhat, you know, what are people, you know, what do people enjoy? And I really, I mean I the first flavors are really like things that I loved so I just wanted to create things you know flavors and then I tested them on my friends and I probably Michael I probably made like 15 or 20 different flavors before I started right like and kind of like chose the heroes from um the ones that I made and in my kitchen. 20:17.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Now, is there one that you you loved and thought, oh, everyone’s gonna love this and didn’t make it? Is there a flavor that you kind of, what is it? 20:26.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah it was a ah green tea matcha 20:30.55vigorbrandingUh-uh. 20:30.44Clara Paye _ UNiTEflavor and so but green tea powder sometimes can be fishy and it’s like sounds so weird but like it just didn’t work in in scale right and so and there are macho bars out there but I never think that they taste great and so you know I wanted it to have like good product integrity and so like that was like a 20:35.42vigorbrandingOkay. 20:39.37vigorbrandingNot it. 20:45.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 20:48.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, one that like I thought would be, you know, cause if you, if you look at the Starbucks menu, like ah so many, you know, those, those are great flavor cues too. Like, you know, Starbucks spends a lot of time in flavor development. And so you can just, you can take cues from adjacent industries. 21:01.68vigorbrandingSure. We got to work with a lot over the years ah through Quench. We worked with the Hershey Company and we worked with the scientists. And I was always blown away because we’d go in the, and back, this would be like early 90s, we’d go in these rooms or they’d have to swipe a card for the door to open. It seemed very like, 21:17.81vigorbrandingUh, sign sci-fi, you know, and it would it be lab technicians and they’d put drops and they’d be like, here, taste that. What does it taste like? I’m like, well, I taste apple pie. They’re like, wait for it. I’m like, Oh, I taste whipped cream. Wait for it. Oh, I can not taste crust. Like they could do this. I mean, it was like better living through chemistry. They could do all this stuff. 21:36.54vigorbrandingand what it came down to obviously was and this is what is so hard with what you do is now you have to source the ingredients now you have to make sure it’s not a chemical thing and then you have to understand can you can you afford that flavoring at a price point that will be palatable to the consumer so there’s so much involved in all of what you do yeah 21:56.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEThere is so much like, look, all business is hard, but the food business is particularly hard, right? Because you’re, it’s a living, breathing thing, right? And for me, it came down to simplicity. Like I always wanted simple ingredients um because I wanted people to be able to understand what was going into the bar, right? Like I wanted it to be real food and natural. And um so when you have those kinds of like, 22:22.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEBarriers, you know, it’s it helps you and it hurts you right? Like I can’t put in a bunch of processing You know like many large companies can because that’s not the brand value that I’m trying to create or the kind of product I’m trying to create. 22:30.08vigorbrandingRight. Mhm. 22:34.50Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, it’s very hard um You know, we do get a lot of those scientists taking pictures at our booth every year at all the Expos and so people and we have been copied, you know and that’s like just anytime you’re successful at something people are gonna copy you and so 22:45.84vigorbrandingSure. Mhm. 22:50.21Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think at the end of the day, consumers want authenticity. They want you know brands that are creating products that are meaningful to them and will reward those brands. So I don’t really worry about like copycats. I worry more about when they stop copying me. 23:07.91vigorbrandingbut you know and But to your point, and you know weve we’ve been doing a food trends report for over 15 years, and what you are doing and and how you’re doing it is very on trend. It’s not easy. It’s not inexpensive. i mean it’s ah it’s ah you know you there’s you could You could have cut corners along the way on your product, but you don’t do that. I just think that that’s going to pay dividends in the long run. i think that’s such a It’s hard to stick to your ethos, but I think you do a fantastic job of that. so I think it’s something to be proud of. and so and My next thing is, I did not know this, but the I in Unite stands for invite. and I did not realize on the back of every bar there’s an email address that you can people can send directly to you for suggestions on new flavors. Have you have you learned anything from these? Have you gotten anything interesting in the emails? 23:52.30Clara Paye _ UNiTEYes, I love those emails, like those emails come to me. And so I get to interact with the people that write those emails. And, you know, the most meaningful ones are when people will give me a flavor suggestion, but then they’ll also say, thank you for making a bar for us. 24:07.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, thank you. And it’s exactly what I wanted to do. 24:09.63vigorbrandingThat’s super cool. 24:10.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEwhen I, when I set out was like, make the invisible feel seen. 24:12.05vigorbrandingYeah. 24:14.77Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, I know what it’s like to not feel seen. You know, I know what it’s like to like, kind of be in the shadows, like being a woman in the plumbing industry. Perfect example, right? Like you don’t really belong here or you don’t like, you know, somebody that looks like me typically doesn’t work in plumbing, right? 24:29.33Clara Paye _ UNiTElike It’s a very old, old, you know, antiquated kind of industry. And so like when I get those emails, I get really excited and people do have some great ideas and ideas of like things that we’ve actually developed, you know, and just haven’t launched. And, you know, so it’s fun to know that like, it is also on trend for people. 24:49.00vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So I mean, ah um I’m being italian Italian. My wife’s Greek. So yeah, yeah, her mother makes us baklava. So it’s phenomenal. So I love that. I’m really proud to see that you have a baklava in your in your flavors. So you have you have baklava, you have peanut butter and jelly, you have chiro, bubble tea, Mexican hot chocolate. What’s your what’s your favorite? 25:09.34Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it’s like asking me which my favorite kid is. 25:12.05vigorbrandingah We all have one. 25:11.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEum i and I mean, is our hero. 25:12.61vigorbrandingCome on. We all have one. On any given day, we all have one. A favorite kid. 25:18.32Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd churro was like the first bar where I was like, okay, we really have something. 25:19.02vigorbrandingUh-huh. That’s the baby. 25:21.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. But I really also very much like baklava. And it’s similar to churro in that, you know, it’s got kind of like some of the the same kind of spices with the cinnamon. 25:28.18vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut baklava has never been done outside of baklava. 25:31.48vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:32.33Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, think about it, Michael. Like, you’ve never seen a baklava ice cream. You’ve never seen a baklava cracker. 25:35.23vigorbrandingNope. 25:36.56Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you’ve never seen a baklava popcorn. Right? Like it was very unique. 25:40.80vigorbrandingYeah. 25:41.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, when I, before I launched, you know, many of the, the manufacturing partners I met with in the beginning were like, these price flavors are too strange. Like nobody’s going to buy these and like to be, you know, have come full circle and and be like, no, they’re great. 25:54.00Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like Baklava just won a good housekeeping award this year when they’re, you know, best snack award. Churro won the same award last year. 25:59.19vigorbrandingAwesome. 26:00.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like, it’s incredibly validating when, you know, people. like like the product and like, you know, um appreciate it. And it’s got organic honey in it. It’s just really tasty bar. 26:12.34vigorbrandingThat’s great. Well, like I said, you’re the products are amazing. And in a way, I like i look at these flavors and in a way they are they’re kind of all comfort foods, too, right? I mean, they’re, they’re, yeah, they’re all international flavors, but they’re almost like international comfort flavors, you know, it just it kind of feels that way. 26:28.40Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, they’re nostalgic flavors. 26:30.16vigorbrandingYeah. 26:30.11Clara Paye _ UNiTESo they’re foods that you ate in childhood. 26:32.21vigorbrandingRight. 26:32.26Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that was also really important to me. That was also one of the barometers is like childhood flavors. 26:36.76vigorbrandingPerfect. 26:38.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd ironically, I mean, I didn’t develop these for kids, but like kids love our bars and like, duh, they’re childhood flavors, right? Like they’re really for adults, but you know, so we’ve had this like wide range of like consumer interest in our, in our products. And so for me, it’s like about taking you back to kind of like a simpler time. I think, you know, health food specifically is sometimes punitive. Like, Oh, I don’t really like this mushroom powder, but I’m going to drink it because like, i my you know, my, 27:03.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEpodcast said that I’m going to get muscles if I drink it. you know and I’m like more on the other side of wellness. We’re like, let’s make it fun and let’s make it like food you want to eat, not food you have to eat. 27:09.80vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. All right. Well, let’s have some fun here. So, you know, being the research guys that we are and the marketing guys where we came up with our own flavors. So we decided to go around the world. I want your opinion on if these are going to be winners or not. So we’ll start in India, a gulab jambu. It’s very popular dessert. It’s often served during celebrations. It’s fried dough soaked in a rosewater syrup, often garnished with almonds and cashews. 27:40.04Clara Paye _ UNiTE10 out of 10. I think that would like a home run flavor. I’ve actually, you know, my Indian friends have also suggested ah exact flavor and it’s always kind of been in my mind. 27:45.01vigorbrandingYeah. 27:48.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEThe rosewater is the one that’s like, can be polarizing. So, you know, we try to have things that are like, you know, broad appeal, but yeah, I think 10 out of 10 would be a great flavor. 27:57.57vigorbrandingPlus, I’ll say this, I hate to be the total American here, but pronunciation can also be a barrier to people buying something if they can’t if they can’t figure out how to say it. 28:04.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor now, right? 28:06.08vigorbrandingAll right, now we’ll head to Spain, a creamy caramel flan. 28:09.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEI love flan and I think flan is another one of those foods that’s mistaken for like just Latin Americans because lots of people eat flan or you know it’s called sometimes creme caramel it’s called like different things in other regions of the world you know so yeah another great flavor you guys are good at this don um don’t start a bar company Michael. 28:15.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 28:26.72vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, yeah. We would never if we, you know, they’re yours. These are all yours if you want to do them. So you have some friends, we have some employees in Brazil. So um Bolo de Rolo. It’s a light sponge cake. It’s rolled up with a layer of tangy guava jam. 28:43.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEThis one I’ve never heard of, I’ve never had. 28:45.94vigorbrandingright 28:46.23Clara Paye _ UNiTEI’ve not not been to Brazil, so it really piqued my interest. I love guavas. I think tropical fruits, you know, we see that in beverage now. 28:54.85vigorbrandingRight. 28:55.48Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, there’s all kinds of great beverages that have popped up with tropical fruit flavors. 28:56.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:00.70Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd definitely in terms of what global flavor trends, guava I think is still underrated because I love guavas. 29:04.97vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:07.99Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, I think, you know, it’d be interesting to to get the um the sponge cake kind of consistency in a bar because bars tend to be a little bit drier and a little bit harder to to make soft because water stability issues. 29:20.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think that’s super intrigued. I want to go to Brazil, so that’s on my list. 29:24.27vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. There’s an excuse for R and&D. It’s a write-off. um you know Yeah, it’s ah that that’s that’s that’s fun. OK, so we go to Italy ah for some almond biscotti. 29:37.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, I love biscotti, but I think if you’re craving biscotti, eat a biscotti. 29:41.08vigorbrandingYeah, I agree. 29:41.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know 29:42.08vigorbrandingYeah, I don’t think that works in a bar, right? 29:43.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, you know like people tell me, like oh, you should make a hummus flavored bar. I’m like, what? Why don’t you just eat hummus? 29:49.24vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. 29:50.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know For me, it’s about taking some things. Because biscotti is not unhealthy, like typically. like you know If you had one, it’s like it’s fine. 29:55.05vigorbrandingNo. 29:57.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s like a treat. So I typically try to take like higher calorie, higher density things to make them healthy and approachable. 30:02.75vigorbrandingoh 30:05.67vigorbrandingYeah, you’re you’re almost bringing a dessert together to a degree, right? 30:05.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEso i probably Exactly. 30:08.59vigorbrandingYeah. 30:08.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEa 30:09.42vigorbrandingYeah, that totally makes sense. And you know what’s funny? You you just said something that that really kind of stuck with me. though The beverage industry does do a lot of flavors. And it’s really kind of accelerated. I mean, as a company, we were early on with with flavored beverages in the tea category. 30:24.27vigorbrandingAnd we were we had a brand that we worked with for like 15 years. We helped build what’s called Turkey Hill Iced Tea. Excuse me. And it was the first refrigerated tea. a lot of There was teas out there that were shelf-stable, but we were in the refrigerator. Well, the proliferation now of beverages in the refrigerator. You go to a convenience store with just walls of beverages. So there’s a lot of unique flavorings that you see popping up. And I guess that’s that would be a good place to see, I don’t know, what’s acceptable, right? like what are what are What are consumers interested in? 30:53.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I think um it’s a good, again, like I got to take a lot of flavor cues from like a Starbucks or like, you know, what are people drinking? 31:01.08vigorbrandingyeah 31:02.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, what are the flavor cues in beverage that we can borrow from, right? Or we that can inform some of us. I think in beverage, it’s a little bit easier because the flavoring is just like props added to something versus like you’re trying to really create something authentic in food. 31:13.60vigorbrandingYeah, yep, yep. 31:19.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut gosh, I’m just happy I have a shelf stable product. Like I can’t imagine distributing a refrigerated or frozen product. 31:25.52vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah. 31:26.11Clara Paye _ UNiTELike knowing what I know now, it’s like just a whole nother level of of anxiety. 31:30.73vigorbrandingYeah, well in flavoring to own on that side is it’s amazing how if you had some foot, it’s not obvious as a flavor to like what happened to potato chips, right? So we have a snack food category of snack foods. I mean, adding just a new flavor a new fun. It’s it’s amazing how much velocity you get and how much traction we actually did it across the tuna category. 31:49.35vigorbrandingAnd you would think, you know, tuna, we started adding sriracha or different types of hot or or or Thai chili or, I mean, just all these kind of unique flavors. 31:54.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEMm 31:57.94vigorbrandingAnd it’s amazing how it can really ah get you more more ah shelf presence. 31:59.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEhmm. 32:03.65vigorbrandingAnd it also then, ah it creates ah an atmosphere of trial. So it’s ah’s it’s an awful lot of fun for that too. So um so as an entrepreneur who who’s growing and developing a brand that’s still a relatively young brand, ah you just created it four years ago. 32:17.34vigorbrandingWhat are some of your biggest challenges? 32:20.85Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s sad to say, Michael, but like there’s a lot of predatory behavior for emerging brands in the food space, right? 32:26.57vigorbrandinghe 32:26.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhere I think this industry like depends on the turn to a certain degree of like brands to fail, to come in to shoot their shot. And like when they fail, it doesn’t matter because there’s like so many other brands behind them trying to get in that same shelf space. 32:39.58Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I think it’s just being the underdog. like If you look at the shelves that we’re on, we’re competing with behemoths, right? Like billion dollar brands, multi-billion dollar brands, like that control the entire food supply. 32:48.42vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 32:51.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we’re like on the same shelf and like, how can we actually compete to build brand awareness? Like, you know, so you just do it with a radical authenticity. You do it by creating value for the consumer, creating something different, creating a better product. 33:05.17Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut it’s really like having come from a larger company where like, you know, you have some kind of street cred because you are a larger and you’re eight It’s easier to grow a larger company, but to grow from scratch has been like humbling. 33:17.69Clara Paye _ UNiTElike it’s There’s a lot of people who want to put their hand in your pocket, who want to you know take advantage of you, and you have to be astute. 33:18.13vigorbrandingYeah. 33:24.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd again, you have to surround yourself with people that are smart, that will help you avoid the landline, help you clear those paths. but You know, I, um, I also started, um, a nonprofit called included for, you know, people of color in food CPG just because I feel very passionately it’s called included included CPG, um, for people to kind of like not make the same mistakes that I made or kind of try to pull it forward somehow by clearing the path for, you know, I don’t want people to, you know, make the mistakes that we, we’ve made or could have potentially made. 33:49.99vigorbrandingMm hmm. 33:56.73vigorbrandingMm hmm. That’s you’ve you’ve always been one to give back. And I think that’s very admirable. I mean, we were walking around. It was it was it this we were just talking about with the included CPG. 34:09.40vigorbrandingWe were walking around. He was exposed. You had a special section and they they they don’t you had them donate space. What was that for? 34:16.71Clara Paye _ UNiTEum Yes for emerging brands and no for included and so we do do that at the fancy food show and at Expo West every year and so we kind of run kind of a mini incubator accelerator For these brands and help them get that space and be ready to pitch and you know, you have to be market ready So it’s not like for a brand that’s like pre-launch it’s like, you know if you have some kind of like established brand presence and really hoping to elevate them to the next level because those trade shows are so expensive and it’s so primitive and so anything that we can do to 34:18.69vigorbrandingOh, OK. 34:43.19vigorbrandingYeah. 34:46.50Clara Paye _ UNiTELevel the playing field to like help an emerging brand win is like I just it just lights me up I like it makes me so happy because These are the people improving the food systems. 34:57.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people that are bringing healthy Products to market. 34:57.35vigorbrandingRight. 35:01.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people who are you know, taking their family recipes and trying to share them with the world 35:06.90vigorbrandingWell, I mean, I admire you because you’re able to, I could see you walking into those shows and asking for them to give you all this space. And I know how you are. You do with a smile, but you’re pretty emphatic and I’m sure you always get your way. 35:19.64vigorbrandingCause I know I sit in meetings with you and when I’m, and when I miss a meeting, I have to answer to you, but you do with a smile, but you always hold people accountable and you get what you want. And I do respect that. So sure. 35:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, I mean, it’s been a great partnership with New Hope and the Specialty Food Association. And it just, it aligns with their value. So they actually are great partners. And so it’s a, you know, and it’s a team. It’s not just me. There’s like five other founders on the leadership team have included. So, you know, we, we are really working hard to improve um the food systems. 35:51.19vigorbrandingwhat So what ah what do a lot of these folks, i mean thankfully they have you ah to sort of open up the door for them, literally to bring them into the into these shows. so like What do you see a mistake made by ah want to be entrepreneurs? what What do they do wrong? Or what do what do you think and in the brand creation process? What do you what do what do you think that they they do wrong a lot? 36:11.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, it’s probably something we did wrong too, but it’s like trying to pretend you’re a big brand when you’re not, right? Like, yes, you can get on that shelf, but are you ready? Can you support it the same way a big brand does? 36:20.43vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:22.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEDo you know all the levers to pull, right? 36:24.66vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:25.09Clara Paye _ UNiTElike And it’s hard to say, like, it’s hard when the opportunity knocks not to take it, right? 36:30.71vigorbrandingSure. 36:31.30Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like that discipline of knowing, you know, What is the actual contribution margin of this account? And, you know, is it just like, or does it accomplish something else? So I think it’s like biting off a little bit more than you can chew. 36:44.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And then the one that I pay attention very closely to is quality. I think quality can sink your company so fast. You know, one quality issue, one copacker issue, one whatever issue. 36:53.05vigorbrandingyeah 36:54.04Clara Paye _ UNiTESo if you’re not paying attention to your product, you know, so closely, um that can really be a landmine because you can always create more brands. But you know, if your brand name is like tainted, it’s hard for you. 37:07.44vigorbrandingRight. I mean, some people might not even know like that. I think people assume because you have a brand, that you actually make it yourself. And you know, there are co-packers out there and a lot of brands use co-packers and you’re handing off your basically your baby and your promise, you know, a brand is a promise, your promise to the consumer to someone else to make. Obviously, there’s there’s checks and balances there. But it it is a, you know, there’s there’s places along the way that you have to count on a lot of partners. And it’s a, I’m sure it’s a difficult business, you know, 37:36.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEI think you have to think of your co-man relationships as kind of like your investors because they’re investing their line time, their energy you know to develop your brand as well. 37:40.66vigorbrandinghere Yep. 37:44.95Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it is a partnership. You’re not just like, you know. Um, taking and giving, right? is It’s truly a partnership but if done right. And like, yeah, I like to, I like to actually preface a lot of my buyer meetings by saying, Hey, by the way, I don’t make this in my garage. 37:56.50vigorbrandingMm 37:57.57Clara Paye _ UNiTEI, you know, because like the, the bias is if you’re like an emerging, I have a dream person and you’re like, make as far as in your garage and like packaging them up and sending them out. 38:01.10vigorbranding-hmm. 38:07.22Clara Paye _ UNiTEI thought there’s anything wrong with that. But like, when you’re trying to pitch a fortune, you know, 100 company, they got to make sure that, you know, you have your ducks in a row. 38:09.52vigorbrandingRight. eat Yeah. Yeah. 38:14.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that’s a good qualifier. 38:17.32vigorbrandingYeah, Target doesn’t want you like ah to think you’re baking the night before. That’s funny. But I mean, yeah, it’s ah yeah’s it’s true. And it’s amazing all of the the hurdles, I’ll say, that you have to go through. So you have a great, yeah there’s a quote that you like to talk about. lot Winston Churchill, success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. And you’re always enthusiastic. You want to talk a little bit about some of those things that you had to bump up against, some of your failures, some of the things that you had to pivot. 38:44.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEOh, there’s so many, Michael. I mean, every, if it’s, if it was easy, everyone would do it, you know, like I say that, but it’s like, it’s so true. 38:49.31vigorbrandingSure. 38:51.46Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, you know, and every entrepreneur I talk to in the food space or any space, it’s like, you gotta be able to take those hits and get back up. 38:57.56vigorbrandingOh, yeah. 38:59.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut the getting back up is really hard, right? 39:02.31vigorbrandingMm hmm. 39:02.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEEspecially when there’s like, you could do something else with your time. You could do something else with your energy. 39:06.20vigorbrandingGreat. 39:07.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s where like a mission becomes really important. And it’s like, what’s actually driving you? 39:11.03vigorbrandingMm 39:11.36Clara Paye _ UNiTECause if it’s money, you’ll give up. There’s way easier ways to make money. 39:15.17vigorbrandinghmm. 39:15.47Clara Paye _ UNiTELike if I wanted to go make money, I’d just take my money and invest it in real estate or whatever. I’m like, yes, we do that too. but It’s really about mission for me. And so what drives you to like make the world a better place, have a lasting impact, create products that resonate with people. 39:31.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so success is just a barometer. It’s just an outcome of you living that up. But like, you know, there are times, I mean, I think if you’re not ready to throw in the towel every month in your business, are you even an entrepreneur? 39:42.90Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you know, like it’s just, it’s the getting back up. 39:43.50vigorbrandingRight. 39:46.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s like that loss of enthusiasm is what gets you. And like another way to send that is like burnout. If you’ve burned out, it’s too late. So I make sure that I don’t burn out. 39:52.89vigorbrandingYep. Yeah, that’s very smart. That’s actually very sage advice right there. Because look, these businesses, no matter how ah exciting they are, or how long you’ve been doing them, you do hit those those troughs, you do hit the burnout phase. I mean, personally, I started my first agency 33 years ago. And it’s, you know, ah yeah well and during this whole time with COVID, there’s so much change. And and and you know You think, well, you’ve been doing this for a long time. Everything think just should be on autopilot. No. I mean, I probably worked harder in the last couple of years. I did maybe in some of the middle years. I don’t know. It’s just just a different time. So yeah, the entrepreneur thing, I think everyone takes it for granted or everyone looks over and says, oh, you’ve done that. Or you have money because of this. And ah most people don’t realize those days and those sleepless nights and those weekends and the you know the the fears of everything from bankruptcy to lawsuits to everything else. We all go through it. right i mean every 40:45.92vigorbrandingi get to I’m very fortunate i get to talk to a lot of founders, I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, and a lot of successful people, and they all have the same they all have those same stories. Every one of them has that nightmare, like, yeah, there was this time when, and you know you didn’t think there was a tomorrow. so it’s ah ah you know it’s ah It’s good to hear, it because your story, you’ve seen it all all the way around from your father to to starting up now and what you’re doing. and I love that you stick to your guns. because ah Again, you can cut corners. You could do things faster, cheaper, but not better. And I think that what you do is ah is really remarkable. And i again, I know it’s going to pay off in the long run. So so what’s what’s next for you tonight? I mean, are there any new flavors? If you can’t talk about it, I understand. But if theres is there anything new products or flavors or anything exciting on the horizon? 41:29.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, there is a new flavor. It’s called Hot Fudge Sunday. We’ll be launching soon. And so we’re really excited about that flavor, another nostalgic childhood treat. 41:35.70vigorbrandingAwesome. Yep. 41:38.67Clara Paye _ UNiTEAlso some different, you know, we’re looking at different formats, kind of some adjacent things. So definitely an innovation pipeline out there. 41:43.72vigorbrandingthat 41:44.39Clara Paye _ UNiTESo hoping to launch some other products. But really, I want to win at bars first and, um you know, really own our category and really, you know, make sure that our velocities stay up and and everything is is good with bars. 41:59.13vigorbrandingFantastic. All right, so one last question. And you can’t be one of your bars. But if you had one last final meal, what would you eat? Where? Why? 42:09.00Clara Paye _ UNiTESuch a good question. I mean, I’m a California girl, so it’d probably be an In-N-Out cheeseburger, ah you know, and and yeah some french fries and egg steak, animals for sure, animal style. 42:15.08vigorbrandingThere you go. All right. I respect that answer. That’s a great answer. Animal animal style, I hope. 42:25.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEum You know, it’s kind of like, that’s the meal when we travel abroad or something and you get back, you’re like, oh, I just want an In-N-Out burger. 42:26.67vigorbrandingah 42:30.92vigorbrandingYeah. 42:31.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it just, it feels like home. And I think that goes back to nostalgia and childhood too. 42:35.15vigorbrandingAnybody that with work or or or whatever, friends or family that travel with me, they know when I land in California, that’s one of the first things I do and I will not leave until I do it. It might not be the very first thing I get to do if I have a meeting, but I will have in and out before I get on that plane to fly back east. 42:51.43vigorbrandingso That’s a great answer. 42:51.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEThat’s right. 42:52.84vigorbrandinggreat answer so Anyway, Claire, thank you. This was awesome. I you know i appreciate you. ah you know I’ve known you a long time and it’s just so cool to hear your story and see what you’re up to and congratulations. 43:03.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michaels. Fun to be on. 43:06.07vigorbrandingAwesome. Thanks.

Heute widmen ich mich einem zentralen Element im Human Design: der Bauchstimme der Generatoren und MGs, die sich durch sakrale Laute äußert. Schon zu Beginn der Reise mit Human Design lernt man, dass die sakrale Autorität sich nicht in Worten, sondern in spontanen Lauten, etwas wie Mhm oder Uh-uh, ausdrückt. Sobald der sakrale Motor auf einen äußeren Impuls reagiert, sollte – so die Theorie – ein freudiger Laut erklingen, wenn etwas stimmig ist, und ein zurückweisender Laut, wenn es nicht passt. So hat es Ra übermittelt, und so ist es in allen offiziellen Unterlagen nachzulesen. Doch was, wenn man als Generator oder MG Schwierigkeiten hat, diese Laute in sich wahrzunehmen und diese nach Außen zu bringen? Bedeutet das, dass der Zugang zur inneren Autorität blockiert ist? Oder gibt es möglicherweise andere Wege, sich mit dieser tiefen inneren Stimme zu verbinden? Viele Menschen empfinden es zunächst als ungewohnt oder gar unnatürlich, sich über Laute auszudrücken. Sie nehmen ihre Reaktion eher im Inneren wahr, spüren eine Bewegung oder ein Gefühl, das sich jedoch nicht direkt in einem hörbaren Laut manifestiert. Doch warum ist das so? Woran kann es liegen, dass sich die sakralen Laute erst nach Jahren oder nur in bestimmten Situationen und mit bestimmten Menschen zeigen? In der heutigen Folge teile ich meine persönliche Perspektive zu diesen Fragen. Ich erzähle von meinen eigenen Erfahrungen und beleuchte auch entwicklungspsychologische Aspekte, die oft eine Rolle spielen. Es geht nicht darum, etwas zu erzwingen, sondern darum, in deinem eigenen Tempo voranzugehen, deinen Zugang zur Bauchstimme sanft wiederzuentdecken und ihr Raum zu geben – bis sie irgendwann ganz selbstverständlich ein Teil deines Lebens wird. Deine Bauchstimme ist immer da – manchmal leise, manchmal laut – und sie wird sich in dem Moment entfalten, in dem du bereit bist, ihr wirklich zuzuhören. Sei geduldig mit dir selbst und erlaube dir, diesen Prozess in deinem eigenen Timing zu erleben. Denn je mehr du deine sakrale Weisheit anerkennst und ihr vertraust, desto mehr wirst du spüren, wie leicht und kraftvoll Entscheidungen sich anfühlen können. Wie ist Deine Erfahrung? Ich freue mich in den Kommentaren von Dir zu lesen! Human Design Academy Barbara Peddinghaus & Team Human Design Analytikerin und Lehrerin (IHDS) Hochstrasse 48 60313 Frankfurt Insta: www.instagram.com/humandesign_academy/

Winegrowing regions in Washington State have many unique challenges from salty soils, to low organic matter, to nematodes. Devin Rippner, Research Viticulture Soil Scientist with USDA-ARS and his colleagues at Washington State University are developing a research vineyard to study soil health building practices. They are testing a variety of management strategies including adjusting irrigation volume to correct for salt build-up, mowing for weed management, compost applications and synthetic fertilizers, and different cover crops. The team is tracking the cost of each practice and will ultimately evaluate wine quality in the coming years. Taking a deeper dive into the future of soil sampling, Devin explains X-ray CT imagery. He has used this technology to evaluate the structure and organic matter from soil columns and aggregates. X-ray CT imagery has also been used to evaluate the impact grape seeds have on tannin flavor profiles. Resources:         80: (Rebroadcast) The Goldilocks Principle & Powdery Mildew Management 90: Nematode Management for Washington Grapes A workflow for segmenting soil and plant X-ray CT images with deep learning in Google's Colaboratory Devin Rippner, USDA ARS Functional Soil Health Healthy Soils Playlist Red Wine Fermentation Alters Grape Seed Morphology and Internal Porosity Soil Health in Washington Vineyards Vineyard soil texture and pH effects on Meloidogyne hapla and Mesocriconema xenoplax Washington Soil Health Initiative Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: Wine growing regions in Washington State have many unique challenges from salty soils to low organic matter to nematodes. [00:00:13] Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director. [00:00:23] In today's podcast, Craig McMillan, Critical Resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates, with longtime SIP certified vineyard and the first ever SIP certified winery, speaks with Devin Rippner, Research Viticulture Soil Scientist with USDA ARS. [00:00:41] Devin and his colleagues at Washington State University are developing a research vineyard to study soil health building practices. [00:00:49] They are testing a variety of management strategies, including adjusting irrigation volume to correct for salt buildup, mowing for weed management, Compost applications and synthetic fertilizers and different cover crops. The team is tracking the cost of each practice and will ultimately evaluate wine quality in the coming years. [00:01:08] Taking a deeper dive into the future of soil sampling. Devin explains X ray CT imagery. He has used this technology to evaluate the structure in organic matter from soil columns and soil aggregates. X ray CT imagery has also been used to evaluate the impact that grape seeds have on tannin flavor profiles. [00:01:28] Now let's listen in. [00:01:29] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today is Devin Rippner. He is a research soil scientist with the USDA agricultural research service. He's based out of Prosser, Washington, and he's also an adjunct in the department of crop and soil sciences with Washington state university. [00:01:46] Devin, thanks for being here. [00:01:48] Devin Rippner: Absolutely. Pleasure to be here, Craig. [00:01:50] Craig Macmillan: You are on the leadership team of the Washington State Soil Health Initiative. I think it's a pretty cool little program. Tell us what it is and what it's all about. [00:01:59] Devin Rippner: Yeah, absolutely. So the Washington State Legislature allocated funding to study soil health and soil health building practices in a variety of agricultural systems and so to access that money a number of groups put in competitive proposals at the Prosser Irrigated Agriculture Research and Extension Center, we put in a proposal to study soil health in wine grape systems. [00:02:24] Originally, we actually had it in juice grapes as well, but we were not able to get enough funding for both. Juice grapes are actually a big product out of Washington. [00:02:32] Craig Macmillan: I did not know that. That's interesting. What varieties? [00:02:34] Devin Rippner: Mostly Concord? [00:02:36] I'm less familiar with it. It's something I would, I would like to work in cause they have different constraints than wine grapes. [00:02:41] Ours is focused on wine grapes, but there are systems looking at tree fruit, at potatoes, at small crane cropping systems. There are a variety of systems that are being evaluated. [00:02:54] Craig Macmillan: I looked at a flyer that kind of outlined some of the ideas and issues around , the Wine Grape part. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:03:01] Devin Rippner: we have fairly unique soils. We have pretty alkaline soils here in Washington. We're on the arid side of the Cascades. So think Reno rather than like Seattle. we tend to accumulate salts. We also have very coarse textured soils. So a lot of sands to sandy loams or loamy sands. Very little clay. [00:03:23] We have typically under 10 percent clay in a lot of the grape growing regions of washington. we also have low organic matter, because it doesn't rain much here. There has never been a chance for a lot of plants to grow. And so we just have never really built up organic matter. So we typically have about, let's say, maybe 1 percent to 2 percent organic matter in our soils. [00:03:44] That's about half a percent carbon to 1 percent carbon, which is typically it's pretty low for a lot of soils. [00:03:50] Craig Macmillan: It is. [00:03:51] Devin Rippner: those are some of, some of the like unique challenges around soil health. There's also problems with pests. Haven't had too much of an issue with Phylloxera. That's changing. [00:04:01] There are a variety of nematode pests that cause problems in grapes here. When you plant a vineyard into an old vineyard, you're basically putting baby vines into a place that might have a bunch of pests that aren't a big deal for really mature vines. [00:04:14] But as soon as you put a baby in that environment, it does not thrive. [00:04:18] Finding ways to deal with nematode pests, things like that over time , is really important. So those are kind of the things that we are, we are looking at, at our site. [00:04:27] Craig Macmillan: What kind of practices are you investigating to address these things? I hadn't really thought of that about it till now, but nematode is a good one. that's a tough pest. [00:04:37] Devin Rippner: funny thing is this is a long term site, right? So, so our practices for those will really come later. I had a nematologist that worked for me. And she evaluated our soils for for the pathogenic nematodes for wine grapes, and we don't really have them but the thing is they build over time, right? [00:04:52] Just because there might be a few in that soil But when they start colonizing the grape roots over time, they can become problematic We functionally have a rootstock trial at the end of all of our experimental rows and, and rootstocks have been found to be very effective at preventing nematode problems or decreasing the severity of nematode problems. [00:05:13] We will be able to kind of look at that with our rootstock trial. [00:05:17] Craig Macmillan: Do you have any of the GRN stocks in that? [00:05:19] Devin Rippner: We don't, so we have own rooted vines and then we have Telekey 5c 1103p 110r. Let's see then I think St. George [00:05:30] I'm trying to remember what, what the last one is. It's escaping me right now. I apologize. [00:05:34] Craig Macmillan: Well, no, it's all right. Some of the more common root stocks, basically the ones that are very popular. [00:05:39] Devin Rippner: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:41] The reality is that a lot of the like vitis rupestris, vitis riparia, , they are less prone to nematode parasitism. Than Vinifera. , that's the reality of it. [00:05:50] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. Less susceptible. I think it's probably the best way to put it. Nothing's bulletproof when it comes to this, this problem. [00:05:57] Devin Rippner: And Michelle Moyer in Washington has been doing a lot of work with this, with Inga Zasada, who's a USDA scientist. And their, their results are really cool. They're finding that when you try to fumigate, it helps for a little while, but the rebound is bad, and it's just easier to just use rootstocks. [00:06:15] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. Talk to me a little bit more about, you said salinity can be an issue [00:06:19] Devin Rippner: Yeah, [00:06:20] Craig Macmillan: So here's the, the back and forth on that. You would think that a, a coser, your textured soil salinity would be less of an issue, but you don't get the rain to take advantage of that. Is that , the issue here? [00:06:30] Devin Rippner: 100%. That's exactly it. We build up layers called caliche layers, which are evidence of a lack of water moving downward. [00:06:38] So it's, it's really evidence of water moving down and then back up due to evaporation. We get big buildups of carbonates in our soils and carbonates are a type of salt. [00:06:48] So as you apply other chemicals, Salts, a salty irrigation water , we tend to build up salts in our soils. A lot of our irrigation water comes from the Yakima River or other rivers in the area, columbia River. But there are places where people are on deeper wells and they are seeing salt accumulation in their vineyards. [00:07:06] And it's, it's really challenging to deal with. [00:07:09] Craig Macmillan: Do you have any strategies that you're looking at? Anything you're trying out? [00:07:13] Devin Rippner: at our site over time, we're going to look at higher irrigation volumes versus lower irrigation volumes and seeing if that will change the accumulation of salt at our site. , that's kind of the main experiment around that with our soil health vineyard. [00:07:27] Craig Macmillan: Obviously you're doing this with some pretty salty irrigation water and you're comparing that to less salty water. At one site, you're only gonna have one type of water, right? [00:07:36] Devin Rippner: Right. That's not something that we'll be able to do, but one of the interesting things is we are applying compost and. Our compost can be pretty salty. [00:07:45] So we'll, we'll be getting compost. That'll be kind of four decisiemen per meter. I I'm sorry to use those units and so that, so that is salty. [00:07:54] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, it's salty. [00:07:55] Devin Rippner: Young grapevines, if they grew only in that, they would really struggle. It's over the, the two deciSiemen per meter kind of threshold for grapevines. That's something where we're, you know, we are using clean irrigation water, but some of our amendments coming in can be saltier. [00:08:10] When we have kind of a, a low and high irrigation treatment, we can evaluate the salt accumulation in the root zone. From that particular amendment, right? [00:08:19] Craig Macmillan: What about other types of fertilizer? Are there organic fertilizers or something like that that might be less of a salt contributor than let's say a traditional nitrate based fertilizer? [00:08:28] Devin Rippner: As it turns out, at least for us, we don't apply. a massive amount of nitrogen to our grapevines, so we're often applying between 20 and say 60 pounds of N per year which is not a lot compared to say corn or, tree fruit or, or hops or things like that. [00:08:45] And so we, we don't, Exactly. Expect to see a buildup of, of those salts over time. Honestly, some of the organic amendments end up being saltier than our fertilizer. [00:08:55] That's something when we do a high and low for irrigation, we will be able to look at the accumulation of, of nitrates and things like that. [00:09:02] Cause in our arid environment, you do get accumulations of nitrate, which is kind of funny. [00:09:06] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's interesting. You also mentioned the soil pH, alkalinity. What, what's going on there? How bad is it in different spots? What can you do about it? I, I'm fascinated by this because like when you look at viticulture, you have like a lot of knobs on the mixing board, right? You got a lot of sliders and, Soil , you can't slide it very well. It's like very hard to make changes to soil over time. [00:09:33] Devin Rippner: it is. [00:09:33] Craig Macmillan: very slow and very difficult. So I'm very interested in , this issue here. [00:09:39] Devin Rippner: It's funny at our site, the soil pH isn't too bad. It's about 8. Across the board, from the, from the top that so, so we've been measuring from the top of the soil down to about 90 centimeters. About three feet. We do see a pH tick up in our sub soil, but still it's, it's around the eights. [00:09:56] We actually have a lot of carbonates in our soil. There's only more organic carbon in the top six inches of our soil. And from that point on, most of our carbon is in the form of carbonates. [00:10:06] Which is kind of unique. And so once you get down to like 60 to 90 centimeters, so two to three feet in the soil, functionally, 90 percent of the soil carbon is carbon from carbonate. [00:10:16] So dealing with that in the region there's wide variation, so people that are planting into old wheat ground where they've used a lot of ammonium based fertilizers or urea, the pH can be in the fives. And then I, I mean, I've measured soil pH is up to about 9. 8 around here. So, so quite high. [00:10:35] Those soils are hard to deal with. So these are carbonate buffered systems. So to try to lower the pH, you basically have to get rid of all the carbonates. And that is not really feasible. We do see in some of the vineyards that we work in. And again, a lot of this data is preliminary. [00:10:51] I'm trying to get stuff out right now. Getting the vineyard set up has been a massive undertaking. And I've been lucky to work with a great team to, to get it done, but it has taken a lot of my time. [00:11:01] Um, but we, we do see seasonal fluctuations with irrigation. So soils might start off with a pH around eight drop over the course of the growing season into the sixes and then as they dry down for winter time. So we cut irrigation. The pH will start to rise back up as the carbonates move from the subsoil to the surface. [00:11:21] Craig Macmillan: Interesting. Interesting. Let's talk about your vineyard. If I understand correctly, you have a research vineyard there in Prosser that you are building from scratch or have built from scratch. Is that true? [00:11:30] Devin Rippner: Yes. . It is a new vineyard to study soil health building practices. We just finished our second season. And we were very lucky. Vina Matos which is a company out of Portugal. They mechanically planted it for us. [00:11:45] Scientist, so it's, it was, yeah, it was a bit of an undertaking. Even now I've gotten a lot better on a tractor than I was. And, you know, I like to run, like, I'd like to do x ray stuff. And then I'm out there on a tractor, like, yeah, doing stuff. It's a unique challenge. [00:11:59] So we do have a vineyard manager Dr. Liz Gillespie is the vineyard manager. , she honestly does most of the tracker work. I only sub in when she's down with an illness or something like that. [00:12:09] It's been a team effort for the last couple of years. [00:12:12] Craig Macmillan: What are you doing in there? You've talked about a couple of topics, but, and how big is this, this vineyard? [00:12:17] Devin Rippner: It's not that big. It's about 4. 1 acres. , [00:12:20] Craig Macmillan: that's, you know, for research, that's good. [00:12:22] Devin Rippner: yeah, yeah, it is good. We functionally have a business as usual. So we call it our Washington 2021 standard. So it's kind of what growers just do. So that's spraying undervined for weed control and then just let resident vegetation pop up where it may and mow it down. [00:12:39] Most people don't spray or till , their tractor rows. They just. Kind of let it go. We don't get that much rain. You end up selecting for annual grasses it's actually a pretty good weed composition for a tractor row. So then we start building from there. [00:12:52] One of our treatments is what if you just mowed everywhere, right? The goal is to select for annual grasses everywhere over time. [00:12:59] And then we have another treatment where we're mowing everywhere. But we're applying compost for fertilization. Our other treatments get synthetic fertilizers for fertilization, and then we have our compost treatment where we're mowing. [00:13:12] Then we have an undervined cover crop, so that's like our cover crop treatment. [00:13:16] We're curious about undervine legume cover crops. So we have a short subterranean clover that , we've seated in to hopefully eventually start adding nitrogen to the system and, and hopefully we'll be able to back off on more of the synthetic fertilizers over time in that system, but we'll let the vines guide us, right? [00:13:35] Craig Macmillan: What species of clover is that? [00:13:37] Devin Rippner: I'm not sure the exact, so it would be like Dalkey. [00:13:39] it's a clover that basically has low flowers and shoots seed downward. And so , that allows it to replant itself really effectively. [00:13:47] The flowers tend to be below the foliage. So we won't have to worry about mowing them down too badly. , they stay low. And so that's why we selected that. just to try to keep the flowers low and keep foliage away from our vines. [00:14:01] Craig Macmillan: Anything else? [00:14:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah, so then we have our aspirational treatment, which is kind of a mix of the subterranean clover cover crop. And then we have compost fertilization and then kind of breaking the full factorial. We're actually changing what's in , , the tractor row. We're planting an intermediate wheatgrass. [00:14:20] We started with crusted wheatgrass. It's so funny with these experiments. , we seeded in crusted wheatgrass a couple of times and just did not take it's not very effective for competing against other weeds, and it's not very good with traffic. And so now , we're seeding in intermediate wheatgrass. [00:14:35] , it is more traffic tolerant and is more weed tolerant. So we're hoping that we'll be able to outcompete all the other annual grasses and just have kind of a perennial grass cover crop. [00:14:46] Craig Macmillan: Is it on these courses? So is this camp is compaction less of a problem? I would think. [00:14:53] Devin Rippner: We do have some compaction. That we've seen out there. Certainly mechanical planting can cause some extra compaction. It, it takes a lot of force to, you know, rip a giant hole in the ground to drop the vines into. And so we do see some compaction from that. [00:15:06] We have taken bulk density cores from all over the vineyard. And we're hoping to see changes over time in that compaction. So we've done bulk density course from under vine and then in the tractor row. And so we're hoping that over time, these various practices will alter the bulk density, hopefully lower the bulk density in the tractor row. [00:15:27] Craig Macmillan: And then I'm assuming that you're also keeping track of costs for these things. [00:15:32] Devin Rippner: yes, we have been keeping track of costs. We are keeping track of the hourly labor , for mowing. Honestly, we've, we've purchased some undervine mowers and , we have really struggled to find a good solution for our young vines. [00:15:45] We're going to, Purchase another one soon. The biggest thing is that if you have a swing arm on it, it's got to be gentle enough that it, it'll push out of the way , with a bamboo stake in the ground. [00:15:55] And a lot of the existing swing arm mowers for orchards and vineyards it takes a lot of force to move that swing arm. [00:16:03] It's been a real challenge for us. So, so we ended up having people go out with weed eaters, which is super expensive and is actually something that some vineyards do either biodynamic vineyards in the area that they'll send people out with weed eaters to go control the weeds under vine. [00:16:17] I don't want this to be just like a hyper specialized science experiment. If we're sending people out with weed eaters, it sounds a little bit ridiculous, but there are folks in the industry that do it. So it's not. It's not that ridiculous. [00:16:28] Craig Macmillan: It's not that ridiculous. It's legitimate. [00:16:31] Whatever tool that you can make work, depending on the size of your vineyard and depending on what your conditions are. But yeah, you're in row mode. That's going to be an issue until these vines are mature to no doubt about that. I hope you still have a vineyard after knocking down these bamboo stakes. [00:16:44] You don't have like real results yet. You've only just gotten started. [00:16:47] Devin Rippner: We've only just gotten started you know, some of the results that we got were prior to our planting, there were no differences among our treatment blocks for our treatments across the site. So that's nice kind of starting at a, a pretty even baseline. [00:17:03] We're going to track the changes over time. Honestly. I hate to speculate, we don't have the data for it yet, but we've been applying, our synthetic fertilizers based on our like compost mineralization rate. And one of the things that's pretty obvious when you walk out there is that weed competition is brutal for young vines. [00:17:23] So where we're spraying with herbicide under the vines, there's less weed competition. Those vines are just bigger., [00:17:28] we're going to up the amount of fertilizer that we apply next year to try to, like, get around that. And it's one of the challenges at our site is that for long term research, we have to manage our vineyard in a way that kind of limits how many comparisons that we can make. Functionally, two out of our three rows are buffers. It just eats up an enormous amount of space and I'm, I'm hesitant to start putting other treatments into those areas. Like, oh, what if we vary the fertilizer rate to see what the effect is with relation to mowing, right? [00:18:01] So can we get over the weed pressure by, Applying more fertilizer. One of my main takeaways is that a lot of the recommendations that you might get for like, for conventional management won't necessarily work if you're trying to change your system [00:18:16] That's where, you know, growers are going to have to play around and understand that if they're mowing under vine, there is going to be more weed pressure and those weeds take up nitrogen. [00:18:27] You may have to fertilize more. I mean, that, that's just a consequence of, of weed competition. [00:18:32] Craig Macmillan: yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. And in irrigation water too, [00:18:37] Devin Rippner: Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. They use a lot of water. There's no doubt about it. [00:18:42] Craig Macmillan: Which actually brings me back to the clover. I planted crimson clover in my yard once and I irrigated it and it was really pretty and I actually put two and a half foot, three foot high risers off of my lawn sprinklers to get a sprinkler high enough that I could keep growing it. And I was able to grow it up to about three feet tall and it was gorgeous. It was absolutely amazing. But it does make me wonder if, what's a subterranean clover? It's a low growing clover, but how much effect does irrigation have on it in terms of making it taller or taller? [00:19:13] Devin Rippner: That's a good question. I haven't looked into it that much. I consulted with some colleagues here. Who've done work with a variety of cover crops, and they were the ones that recommended the subterranean clover. It has a short stature and part of it is because of how it flowers and seeds, it can't get that tall because it's, it pushes its seeds into the ground. [00:19:32] And so there's no real benefit for it getting taller because then it will be farther away from where it needs to put its seeds. [00:19:39] That's a real concern. I mean, I've learned so much by , having a vineyard gophers, voles, rats, mice, they can be problematic. Right. And if you have a tall cover crop, that's getting into your vines, like that's an easy pathway up. [00:19:52] Keeping the, those undervine weeds and cover crops short is really important. [00:19:58] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. It's also really important for the success of your predators. [00:20:01] Your barn nows and whatnot. They can't really do much when things are tall. So keep going, keep good luck. You're in it. You're in it now, Devon, [00:20:09] Devin Rippner: Oh, yeah. No, that's what it feels like. I feel like I jumped into the deep end of a pool, but didn't realize it was so deep. And so, yeah, I'm learning. [00:20:17] Craig Macmillan: Because prior to a few years back, cause you were, you were at Davis and you were at the Oakville station. Is that right? For a little while. [00:20:24] Devin Rippner: I pulled some samples from Oakville, but no, I was mostly on main campus. I'm a soil chemist by training. Grapevines are relatively new for me. I worked for Andrew McElrone, who , does some great work a lot of my previous work did not involve grapes, and it was mainly, like, tomatoes or other annual crops, and often, like, pretty lab based stuff. [00:20:47] And so this has been a real deep dive for me to do something different. [00:20:53] Craig Macmillan: which is an excellent transition to some of your work which you did at other crops, but you also did some other interesting things related to vines and to soil. And that is x ray CT imagery. You were the first person to introduce me to this concept. I I had no idea I guess I should say X ray micro CT imagery. What, what are the exact terminology? What is it? What can it do? What can we learn? [00:21:20] Devin Rippner: Thanks for bringing this up. Let me just try to keep it simple and I'll build out from there. Just like a doctor's office where you can get an X ray you can actually X ray soils. And plants and look inside of them. X ray computed tomography is where instead of just taking one x ray, maybe you take 1000 x rays as the sample is slowly moving. And what you end up with is the ability to make a three D reconstruction of that sample. Where you're able to look inside of it. [00:21:50] Materials that absorb x rays look different than materials that don't absorb x rays. And so you're able to start Teasing apart structures that are inside of plants and soils [00:22:01] There's different levels to that. Humans have X ray computed tomography done on them, right? You can go in and have that procedure done to look inside of you. It's very much like an MRI there are some tools that it. look at very big volumes. And then there are some tools that look at very small volumes. [00:22:19] That's where there's the x ray microcomputed tomography is looking at very small volumes. And a lot of times those instruments they're low often located. With synchrotrons. So a synchrotron is a particle accelerator that moves electrons at about the speed of light. And then as they're going at the speed of light, , it bends them, it shifts the path of the electrons. [00:22:43] And in doing so , Theory of relativity says that when you have a big shift , in the direction of these electrons they must lose energy. And so they lose energy as the brightest light that we know of in the known universe. And so some of that light are x rays and those x rays are very tunable, and there's a lot of them. [00:23:03] And so we can basically focus on a really tiny area. And still have a lot of x rays. That lets us look at really small things and still have like good contrast and be able to image them relatively quickly. This field is advancing quickly. I know it sounds pretty crazy to talk about x raying soils and plants and things like that. [00:23:23] But the reality is these x rays can also be used to identify elements. And so you can do elemental speciation. So you can be like, Oh, all of the phosphorus there is as phosphate rather than some other form or it's calcium phosphate, not magnesium phosphate. That's called x ray adsorption, near edge structures. [00:23:42] That's how people do that. A long time ago, these instruments used to be unique. You do like a tomography and then you do like these Zains do elemental information, but those things are converging. Now it's possible to do like x ray CT and also do elemental analysis and speciation on the same sample. [00:24:01] in 100 years, that may be how we do our soil testing is you literally have one of these instruments on the back of a tractor. You pull a soil core. You do a quick scan and you say, here's our structure. We can also see the organic matter inside of the soil column. And then by inference from the outer edge of the soil column, we can get What elements are there and what form they're in and then make predictions on their availability. [00:24:27] Were very far from that, but that's like the vision that I have in my head is that at some point, , these will be sensors that people can just use in the field. Will they use an enormous amount of energy? Absolutely. Technology has, shifted in my lifetime and a lot of things that have seemed absurd in the past are now commonplace. [00:24:47] Craig Macmillan: What kinds of things, and it can be other crops as well, but in particular, there was one you did with, I think, grape seeds. Those are the things that can do what, what have you actually. Zapped [00:24:59] Devin Rippner: Yeah. [00:24:59] Craig Macmillan: a better word. [00:25:01] Devin Rippner: You know. [00:25:01] Craig Macmillan: mind here. Okay. So [00:25:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah. So I work with a lot of folks at different national labs. So the Pacific Northwest National Lab is a lab I work at a lot. And we've done a lot of imaging of soil cores and they're big soil cores. So three inches by 12 inch soil cores and to look at soil structure and we're working on segmenting out organic matter from them. [00:25:22] That's something that was not previously possible, but with modern neural networks and deep learning, we can actually train. Neural networks to identify specific compounds in the soil and identify them. We've done it with soil columns. I've done some work with soil aggregates. [00:25:38] So we can look at very small things as well. I've looked at grape seeds, so we had a little study where working with some folks at Davis they pulled out grape seeds, before, during and after fermentation, functionally, and we looked at how the structures of the seeds were changing. [00:25:58] The idea here is that grapeseeds provide a lot of tannins and they're not necessarily like the best tannins for wine, but they do provide a lot of tannins. [00:26:07] People have always wondered like, why do grapeseeds kind of supply a constant amount of tannins during the fermentation process? And as it turns out, it's because the structure of the seeds is changing during fermentation, [00:26:18] They start cracking. And so the internal structures become more accessible during fermentation. [00:26:23] And so that's what we were seeing using x ray tomography is these internal changes that were happening inside of the grape seeds that could potentially promote tannin extraction. [00:26:32] Craig Macmillan: That is fascinating. That explains a lot. I'm just thinking through, Tannin management. The date currently is in the beginning of November 2024. So we're just wrapping up a harvest here in the Paso Robles, central coast area. And so I've been thinking a lot about tannin management last couple of months on behalf of my friends who make wine, not myself. That's not entirely true. Is there a practical application to that in terms of like timing or conditions or things that would contribute to the, the cracking breakdown of these seeds that you identified? [00:27:05] Devin Rippner: We weren't able to go like that in depth and it's some, it's an area that I would like to build on. But the idea is that. The fermentation is a pretty harsh environment. You have a massive change in pH. Microbes are working hard. You have the production of ethanol, which allows the extraction of different compounds. [00:27:24] The seeds are seemingly being modified during fermentation. There needs to be more work done in this area in terms of seed tanning management. We now have kind of a, the more physical. Explanation for why those cannons are coming out of the seeds. [00:27:39] If you are able to pull your seeds earlier from fermentation, I mean, that's like a ridiculous thing to say, but you know, [00:27:45] Craig Macmillan: no, I mean, winemakers are very clever there's a lot of techniques that have become more prominent, I think, in the last 10, 15 years in terms of things like pressing off early, so getting your extraction fast and then finishing out the fermentation off of skins, off of seeds, you know, that's one way that you can do it really using seed maturity as a major variable in your pick decision is another one that I've seen people really draw to. [00:28:09] I remember people crunching on seeds and going, yeah, that's mature. Now I'm seeing people reject a pick date based on that. [00:28:17] Like we were going to wait for these seeds to mature fully before we pull because of, because of these issues with a seed tannin. So just knowing that I think is fascinating. [00:28:28] And if we can put some time and pH things on that, that would be really cool. Are you going to be using this technology with the with the research plot for anything? [00:28:36] Devin Rippner: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we [00:28:39] already have started that. We've already started down that route. Shortly after planting we collected soil cores from, , the vine row. And then from where the, the planter tires were functionally running just to look at changes in bulk density. So like kind of how compressed the soil is and then trying to get at changes in porosity. [00:28:58] We looked at these cores relative to , a field next door. That has had very relatively little disturbance in the past, like 4 to 10 years. It's kind of variable but has had less disturbance than say, like, right after planting a vineyard mechanically. Some of the things we see are you know, when you mechanically plant a vineyard, the bulk density , in the vine row is much lower than where the tractor tires are running that intrinsically makes sense. [00:29:26] And they're kind of both different than a place that's been no till or low disturbance for four to 10 years. Some of the things that are most interesting, and, and again, this is preliminary, it's got to go through peer review. . But when we look at the CT scans, you can actually see where worms have been moving, [00:29:45] In these, like, low till and no till plots or this field that has just not really been disturbed. [00:29:51] , so worms are actually making sizable holes in the ground, and those holes contribute to the porosity in these, like, low disturbance soils compared to these very disturbed soils. And that was a really interesting thing to visually see. You can see the worm castings in the scan. [00:30:10] I don't know if you've ever seen worm castings before, but they kind of, they're these little, like, kind of football shaped Things that are all clumped together our soils don't really aggregate. [00:30:20] We don't have enough organic matter and we don't have enough clay. And so that's like driving force behind aggregation in our soil seemingly is worm castings. For me, that was just mind blowing. [00:30:31] I was not expecting to see that. I think I was expecting to see a lot of roots or like root channels and they're there, but the worms are like following these roots and root channels around. [00:30:41] I'm a very visual person. And so when I do CT stuff, it's like, Oh, wow. Like I can see it with my eyes. If I can't see it with my eyes, it's hard for me to believe. But when I see it with my eyes, , it's believable. [00:30:52] Craig Macmillan: We've done a number of interviews recently around so the microbiome and just soil biology kind of in general, , is that gonna be part of your analysis as some of these projects go forward? [00:31:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah, absolutely. So we've done something called phospholipid fatty acid analysis. [00:31:09] So that gives us an idea of kind of, The microbial consortium that's there right when we sample phospholipids don't really stick around in soils. They're quickly degraded. We would like to do some sequencing challenges. We don't have a microbiologist on the team. And, and so we would, we would have to pay for the sequencing. [00:31:28] And even then sequencing is really interesting because, you could be like, oh, we did say 16 S-R-R-N-A sequencing. And that's like, that's a particular like region or a particular type of sequencing that is, that only picks up on say bacteria. [00:31:47] Whereas if you want to see fungi, maybe you need to do something called ITS sequencing. And so unless you do like all of the sequencing, you can get an idea of what's happening to the bacterial communities or the fungal communities. But unless you do all of them, it's really hard to get a more holistic picture. [00:32:05] And then, a lot of the sequencing that we do or is done we're missing things. If the regions analyzed aren't big enough, like we can be blind to specific things that we know are there. And so things like my understanding is that fungal mycorrhizae can actually be hard to detect by sequencing. [00:32:21] And so even if you visually see them in the roots by staining, you may not pick them up by sequencing. It is a challenge. Now, I, you know, I think that certainly studying the microbiome and understanding its relationship , with vine performance and soil health is, is crucial and is really, you know, one of the things that it's kind of the Holy grail [00:32:41] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. [00:32:43] Devin Rippner: We're trying to get there. [00:32:44] Craig Macmillan: We're trying to get there. That is definitely the message, but it also, there's definitely the potential. I think that there's a lot of people working on this. I think we're going to get there. It's, genomics is so big. I've talked to people that are like, at some point we, we, we will probably be able to get down to species, so we will know the bad actors from the good actors, we'll get a sense of what the real ecology is. [00:33:05] That's a decade plus away still, but we're going there. Right? We're we're gonna figure it out. We're gonna figure it out at some point. We're gonna get there. [00:33:14] Devin Rippner: Yeah, I agree. And there's, there are some techniques. There's some really cool techniques. So Jennifer Petridge at Lawrence Livermore lab does a lot Carbon 13 labeling of root exudates. So she basically gives plants, she treats them with carbon 13, enriched CO2. And then she looks at how much of the carbon 13 is then incorporated into the DNA of microbes to try to get at how well associated they are with plants. [00:33:41] I think that work is just incredible. And there's some folks at Davis that are, are working that in that area as well. That's kind of the stuff that gets me really excited to seeing when people are trying to really tie it into what's feeding on root carbon, , who's getting these exudates, things like that. [00:33:59] , that to me is one of the, One of the ways that we'll be able to, like, get at these questions is to, to start differentiating, the bulk soil microbiome from like the, the real rhizosphere associated microbiome. [00:34:11] Craig Macmillan: so you got a lot going on. You got , you got a bunch of different things happening. What's the path ahead look like for you? [00:34:17] Devin Rippner: Sure. So, and with with the soil health vineyard. I mean, I'm very excited to keep that going. We'll do another large sampling event in 2027 or 2028. We'll start making wine from our grapes. Not next year, but the year after that. So we'll be excited to see how our different management strategies influence our wine. [00:34:40] The wines that come out of the vineyard, or the wines made, made from the grapes that come out of the vineyard. So those are some of the things , I'm most excited about with regard to the vineyard. [00:34:50] Otherwise, I have a lot of data that I need to process and get out. That's something that's next. [00:34:56] I, I'm collaborating with some folks from the University of Illinois in Berkeley lab to look at changes to the Moro plots in Illinois over time. So that's the oldest agricultural experiment in the United States. The plots there have been in experimental treatments for 149 years. [00:35:15] And the reason I'm involved is because vineyards can be very long lived things, right? I mean, there are vines in California 100 years old. [00:35:23] This is one of the few experiments to me that's like comparable to what we see in vineyards. And so I'm really curious about, you know, how do, how do management practices influence soil structure, microbiome, the metagenome, the metabolome, things like that, on these century long timelines. [00:35:43] That to me is like some of the really interesting questions. If you have a vineyard for, for a century, or if you want a vineyard for a century, what do you need to do? How do you make that work? Knowing that it's going to take 20 years to have your vineyard be profitable. [00:35:57] I mean, you're already on a different timescale than annual crops, right? yeah. And so it's just like, how, how do we make our, our vineyards as sustainable and long lived as possible? Because , that, that initial investment is huge. It is so much money. [00:36:13] Craig Macmillan: I think that's really great. I think coming up with findings on other crops, but with practices that could be transferable is really great. You know, we don't need to be in our little grape silo. All the time. And in fact some of the soil microbiome stuff have been with interviews with people that had no connection to vineyards whatsoever. And it was great. The things that they were learning, they were absolutely transferable to this crop as well. That hasn't gotten that kind of attention. Grapevines are tough little suckers, really from an evolutionary standpoint, they're pretty rugged and so we can kind of get away with a lot just because of that. [00:36:48] And now I think the margin for error is less and less, especially when we get into tougher and tougher sites like you're talking about and different conditions, especially if you've farmed it for a while and things have changed. Being able to look at other, other systems and see what's there. [00:37:03] What is one thing that you would tell growers around this topic of research? [00:37:09] Devin Rippner: vineyard is very informed by grower practices. We have a grower board that like helps us make decisions. A message that I will say is like science is science and science is often pretty, you know, Like straight laced and rigid because it must be. know, We're going to find things and those results hopefully will be interesting. [00:37:27] But it's not the be all and end all . of science and research. Growers continuing to try innovative things push the boundaries of what they think is possible is really how we get progress. And I am hopeful , once this vineyard is more established to start going back out and working with growers. [00:37:48] When I first started in Prosser, I sampled from probably 40 different vineyards around the state just to get an idea of what the soil properties were like. And we've done some, some experiments with that. Some of our results are that permanganate oxidize oxidizable carbon. So this POC C classically it's been called active carbon. [00:38:08] There's some new research that suggests that it's, that's maybe a misnomer and it's really, often plant derived carbon. [00:38:15] It seems like there are some effects from that, that suppress disease. And I think that , that's an area where growers can really kind of play around and see if there's , waste from their vineyard and applying it to their vines trying to look at what that does to their, POC C values and also try, just getting in trying to look at some of the past issues that those vines may have and see if there's any decreases. [00:38:41] A lot of observational science is really important. I like hearing from growers that, yeah, I did this thing and it looks like it made a difference. There's a lot of value in that and, and I don't discount like grower knowledge in any way, shape, or form. Like it is deep knowledge growers know things that I don't, and I find that out all the time. [00:39:02] I value those observations. They they give me guidance on how I want to do my work. And we do try to incorporate that stuff into the soil health vineyard. Over time we are going to have to figure out like, You know, can we sustain funding for a vineyard for, say, 50 years if all we're doing is like a cover crop, some compost, and then a mix? [00:39:23] That seems like it's maybe not the most sustainable thing. Science requires that type of stuff, but it's just not that sustainable. So finding ways to make use of our, border rows and stuff like that is going to be important. And a lot of the research that we do is going to be informed by grower observations. [00:39:39] Craig Macmillan: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Where can people find out more about you and your work? [00:39:44] Devin Rippner: Sure. So you can look me up online. Devin Rippner a lot of stuff will pop up. There's a USDA website that has a listing of my publications and things like that. I also have a personal website. So those are some places to, to check out my work. [00:40:00] I try to make sure that my stuff is open access and usable. So, like the deep learning code, the image segmentation code that I co developed for X ray ct work is now being applied to like other types of imaging on. So people are using it at hops and a variety of other things on. [00:40:18] So that code is online. Like you can find it it's associated with my papers. You can play around with it and try it with your own stuff. Mhm. And, and, and that's a big thing for me is like open data. I, I love sharing a lot of the, the data that I have and the code that I have so that people can, repeat what I did. [00:40:35] Look me up online and yeah, you'll be, you can find that, find those resources. [00:40:40] Craig Macmillan: we will have links to a lot of that on the show page. So please visit the show page and check this stuff out. I was really happy to hear you use the word repeatability. [00:40:49] Devin Rippner: Yeah, [00:40:50] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. And I also was really, it's hard. it's very, very hard and it's often overlooked. You know, the, , the scientific methods we know today was all built around the idea of repeatability. That's how you demonstrate whether something's real, real, or if it's only real under certain conditions, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's really great. I'm glad you're doing that. [00:41:08] Well, I want to thank you for being on the podcast. This is a Devin Rippner. He is a research soil scientist with USDA agricultural research service and an adjunct position with the crop and soil science department at Washington state university. Really fun conversation, Devin, lots to think about. I will be following this closely. Or annually, probably [00:41:31] Devin Rippner: Cool. [00:41:31] Yeah. [00:41:32] Craig Macmillan: these things are slow. I'm not going to be checking every week. But I just think it's really cool project and is real inspiration. And I would love to see the same kind of thing replicated in other places. [00:41:41] Devin Rippner: Great. Thanks Craig. That was really fun. [00:41:43] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. [00:41:49] If you enjoyed this podcast, Vineyard Team has a couple of in field tailgate meetings coming up this year that you won't want to miss. [00:41:56] The first is on February 20th in Paso Robles, and it is a dry farming grower around table. Now you don't need to be a dry farmer to enjoy this event. There'll be a number of different growers here talking about their experiences, trials, challenges, and successes. [00:42:13] The second event is on March 12th, and it is Grazing as a Sustainable Practice for Vineyards, taking place in Los Olivos, and we hope to have some adorable sheep on site. [00:42:24] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Dev lots of research articles, plus, sustainable wine growing podcast episodes, 80. The Goldilocks principle and powdery mildew management, 90 nematode management for Washington grapes, plus a whole healthy soils playlist. [00:42:42] Now for the fine print, the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of the USDA ARS. As such, the views, thoughts, and opinions. Presented by the speaker do not constitute an official endorsement or approval by the United States Department of Agriculture or the Agricultural Research Service of any product or service to the exclusion of others that may be suitable. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. [00:43:14] If you liked this show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing, and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast. And you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam. org. [00:43:28] Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

Many property management business owners out there struggle with having a bad brand, bad pricing, cheapo clients, a lack of confidence, and more. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down in-person with property manager and DoorGrow client, Kelly Rafuse, to talk about her journey with property management. You'll Learn [04:53] How to Be Picky with the Clients You Bring on [10:59] Overcoming the “Hustler” Mindset [15:04] Choosing an Effective Brand [21:07] Cheapos, Normals, and Premium Buyers Tweetables  ”As you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't.” “ The more confident you are, the more some of these… difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them.” “ It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom.” “ Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kelly: You know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:00:07] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:00:08] Kelly: Yes.  [00:00:10] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives. And you're interested in growing in business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:37] You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull, founder and CEO of DoorGrow, and Sarah Hull, the co owner and COO of DoorGrow. And now let's get into the show.  [00:01:13] So our guest today, we're hanging out with Kelly. Kelly, introduce yourself.  [00:01:17] Kelly: Hi there, my name is Kelly Rafuse with Crimson Cape Property Management in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.  [00:01:22] Jason: And you have a really nice logo. Where'd you get that really nice logo?  [00:01:25] Kelly: It's this little mastermind I joined called DoorGrow helped me with that.  [00:01:29] Jason: And it's, I was saying, I think it's cool because it's like you are flying right there. [00:01:33] It's like, it like reminds me of you.  [00:01:37] Kelly: Well, yeah. I had this Marvel Comics stud fetish, so.  [00:01:41] Jason: Yes. Okay. You're the Marvel comic gal. All right. So really excited to be hanging out. We're actually in Pennsylvania because this is kind of the neck of the woods Sarah grew up in and managed properties nearby and you manage properties in a neighboring market and so. [00:01:59] The same market. The same market. She, yeah. Exact same market.  [00:02:02] Sarah: I left and she has the market.  [00:02:05] Kelly: While you were here, I was just managing my own portfolio.  [00:02:08] Jason: Oh, okay.  [00:02:09] Kelly: And people were coming to me to manage theirs, and that's how I got into this mess.  [00:02:15] Jason: Yeah. Well, give us a little more background on you, Kelly. [00:02:18] How'd you get into property management?  [00:02:20] Kelly: Oh, well, I started off as a real estate investor. You know, buying homes out here in Northeast PA. It's a very good place to invest in property. Cash flow is, I mean, I think cap rates were like 12 percent when I got in. So, I mean, it was huge, and honestly, I was trying to replace my income because I'd gotten as far as I could go in my former career, you know, hit a huge glass ceiling, and realized that, you know, real estate was probably my ticket to freedom. [00:02:45] Jason: What was your former career?  [00:02:47] Kelly: I was on the radio.  [00:02:48] Jason: Yeah, okay, you've got a great voice for it, so.  [00:02:51] Thank you very much.  [00:02:53] Yeah, so you were doing the radio.  [00:02:54] Kelly: Yeah, so I actually got into this market, and I liked it here. I actually, I did my two years and then moved to a bigger market. I was in Hartford, Connecticut for a while. [00:03:03] And then an opportunity to come back presented itself. And I came back because I genuinely like the area. And you know, the inexpensive real estate was an attraction. And then My husband and I got into investing in properties. We built up quite a portfolio. We had 25 units of our own at one point. [00:03:20] We're down to 14 now. We sold a few off that, you know, really weren't moneymakers for us. But, you know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:03:33] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:03:34] Kelly: Yes. I made all the mistakes.  [00:03:37] Jason: Yeah. And that's sometimes learning through mistakes and pain. [00:03:41] I sometimes joke that DoorGrow was built on thousands of mistakes.  [00:03:45] Kelly: You're telling me. And I will introduce My biggest pain point in just a second here. So what caused me to join DoorGrow is my husband's a real estate broker. And so people were banging on his door. "Can you manage my property? Can you manage my property?" It's like, "well, I don't do that, but my wife does."  [00:04:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:04] Kelly: And I'm like, well, I can't manage their property. I don't have a real estate license. And so it was a whole year of, "come on! Just get the license. Just do it! Just do it. Come on!" So I got the license. And I took on one of his investor clients, and I joined DoorGrow, like all in the same day. [00:04:23] And what I found out when I joined DoorGrow was I never should have taken on that client.  [00:04:27] Jason: That was the price of tuition. It's one of the key lessons that defines you in business, which is you learn those lessons and not take on bad clients. Well, I mean, for us, it's been really inspiring and exciting to see your journey as an entrepreneur and see you kind of get all this ready and get things developed and start to grow. [00:04:46] And so, we were talking about it, like, what should we talk about on the podcast today with Kelly? And you had mentioned.  [00:04:53] Sarah: Yeah, I had said, I think for me, one of the biggest shifts that I've seen in Kelly again and again and again is shifts in mindset because it was just even a few weeks ago where maybe a month ago or something, was relatively recent, where you were saying like, "oh, I read this book and it changed my life I'm waking up at like 4:30 in the morning and structuring my day different" and it was just again and again. But you've had these little shifts that end up leading to these huge changes for you and how you run things and how you structure your day and like just even your, your energy levels seem to be more protected now. [00:05:32] Kelly: Yeah, I'm not getting up at 4:30 in the morning anymore. Although I just learned yesterday I might have to start again because my daughter wants to join the swim team. Oh. And they practice it. 5 a. m. sometimes, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a struggle because I'm not only a real estate entrepreneur. [00:05:48] I am also, you know, a wife of a whirlwind. I mean, my husband is a broker. He's into wholesaling. He's into flipping. And I go to manage him.  [00:05:58] Jason: The whirlwind broker.  [00:06:00] Kelly: Yeah, and,  [00:06:02] Jason: yeah.  [00:06:02] Kelly: No, we'll say no more about that.  [00:06:04] Sarah: There's a lot going on. [00:06:05] Lots of moving pieces.  [00:06:06] Kelly: He's a genius. He's like a Bill Gates level genius. [00:06:09] I'm just waiting for the ship to come in. Yeah, nice. It's been 30 years, but it's coming.  [00:06:13] Jason: So what do you feel like maybe was the first mindset thing that you noticed in Kelly, kind of overcoming? Or what do you feel like was your first?  [00:06:22] Sarah: I don't know if I can think of a first, but I know that there's been several that I'd like to highlight. [00:06:27] Jason: Okay.  [00:06:27] Sarah: So I think one of the things is being much more picky with what clients you take on and what properties you take on and how you kind of screen and vet people.  [00:06:41] Jason: Maybe that first client helped you learn that lesson.  [00:06:44] Sarah: Yes.  [00:06:45] Jason: Yeah. So what, what was the lesson there? Like, what did you figure out?  [00:06:48] Kelly: Oh, wow. You know, the, the first thing is I have to see if our philosophies match. [00:06:53] Jason: You and the client.  [00:06:54] Kelly: Yes. And when I got into real estate investing, I admit I'm a bit of an idealist. I know you're into personality types.  [00:07:01] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:01] Kelly: And I test as an INFP.  [00:07:03] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:03] Kelly: So I probably have no business being in any business at all, but yet here I am. But I'm a dreamer. I'm a visionary. And so my first company was, and still is called Good People, Good Homes, LLC. [00:07:15] And I own property in that LLC. I'm not really doing business in it. It just holds property for me. But when I started it, it was supposed to be the company and it was: you buy these distressed properties in these neighborhoods and you fix them up and you put great people in them and it brings up the whole neighborhood and then everybody loves you and we hold hands and sing Kumbaya and that didn't really happen. [00:07:36] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:36] Kelly: But I did improve a lot of properties.  [00:07:39] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:39] Kelly: Right. Yeah.  [00:07:41] Sarah: I think arguably in this market, you are outdoing anything that I've ever seen because the befores and afters are just wild. And the rent rates before and after are wild. And this area, yes, you can absolutely get a great deal, a great bargain on real estate, and that doesn't come without its challenges and its problems. [00:08:06] But one of the things that I think is just so great in this area that you do is you take these distressed properties and you make them beautiful and livable and safe. And you provide a wonderful home now on something before that was dilapidated.  [00:08:25] Kelly: And the market's full of C class properties. You know, I hear a lot of property managers say, "Why are you even bothering with those?" [00:08:31] Well, honestly, there isn't anything else. Yeah, that's what we hear. You work with what you got. And I probably wouldn't be a real estate investor if the market wasn't like this. Because that's how I got in. I didn't make a ton of money in radio. I didn't. But I made enough to get in, you know, with a C class property. [00:08:48] And now those C class properties are paying for my life, and my daughter's life, and it's beautiful. The property management company? That's just icing on the cake, but I think it might even eclipse what I've been able to do with my rentals.  [00:09:00] Jason: Oh, I'm sure.  [00:09:01] Kelly: And there's a need for it.  [00:09:02] Jason: Yeah. Big need.  [00:09:04] Kelly: Yeah. So the biggest thing I learned, back to your question about how to vet clients, does their philosophy match mine? Do they believe their C class property could be turned into a desirable place to live? And yes, you will be charging market rent for that, which is a lot more than maybe you thought you could charge. And you'll get a better class tenant that way. Or are they just happy not doing anything to the property, just letting it be what it is and getting whoever they can get into it and, you know, getting whatever money they can for it. I don't really want to work with those people.  [00:09:38] Jason: Do you find part of this though is just selling? [00:09:41] It's like convincing them to align with your vision? Because it sounds like you have a better vision than a lot of the people that might come to you.  [00:09:48] Kelly: Sometimes when I show them the spreadsheet, of, you know, what I've done for some of my other clients, including the first one that I told you about. I mean, I really turned some of his properties around. [00:09:59] And I've tried to fire him twice. Yeah.  [00:10:01] He won't go and, you know, he's also a third of my income, so I'm going to keep him on. And, but the thing is, he's kind of listening to me now. Kind of.  [00:10:11] Sarah: He's open. Well, I think. It's like a walnut shell. We've just cracked it open. Maybe some of the good ideas are seeping through. [00:10:18] Jason: I've talked about this before, but I think also part of it is, as we've seen, you come into your own in more confidence in what you're doing and the more confident you are, the more some of these A personality types or these difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them. [00:10:36] And I talk about metaphorically punching people in the face sometimes. So you probably maybe punched them in the face metaphorically a couple of times since then. And so setting those healthier boundaries. Is something we naturally do when we start to believe in ourselves more. And so what other shifts do you feel like you've noticed in Kelly? [00:10:55] Or what are some of the things that DoorGrow's helped you with? Are you making changes too?  [00:10:59] Kelly: Well, like Sarah said, a lot of the mindset stuff, I mean, a big revelation came to me when I was at DoorGrow live.  [00:11:05] Jason: Yeah, what was that?  [00:11:07] Kelly: Well, first of all, getting to DoorGrow Live was a challenge because I was in the midst of my survival mode. [00:11:13] I'm a solopreneur still. I do everything myself. My husband's my broker of record, but, like, he's off doing his thing. Sure. So.  [00:11:21] Jason: You were doing everything, you're really busy, and you're like, how do I take a break to even just go to DoorGrow Live?  [00:11:26] Kelly: Yeah, and, you know, then I've got this mindset that, you know, how can I afford it? [00:11:30] But the thing is, I did have the money to go. That's another thing. I've got a poverty mindset I need to get past. And when I went to DoorGrow Live, that was really thrown in my face. Because I was talking about the challenges of being a solopreneur. And one of the pieces of advice that I was given by one of the speakers is, "What's your time worth?" [00:11:49] You know, you can't be doing all of these things when you pay somebody. Yeah, and I thought, well, what's my time worth? And then this little voice in the back of my head said, well, not a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:00] Jason: You told everybody that. You said, "not a whole heck of a lot."  [00:12:04] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:04] Jason: And we're like, "oh, okay."  [00:12:06] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:07] Jason: Yeah. [00:12:07] Kelly: Well, I mean, that comes from, you know, my background. I grew up without a lot.  [00:12:11] Jason: Yeah. You know,  [00:12:12] Kelly: I saw my parents struggle. They're working class people. You know, I got into an industry that was on its, you know, downslide when I, I started on the radio in you know, the early nineties, you know, probably right after it started to slide down and, you know, there've been multiple layoffs and, you know, voice tracking and automation and, you know, I survived, but I think one of the reasons I survived was I was willing to work really hard for not a whole lot of compensation. [00:12:40] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:40] Kelly: You know, as people were let go and reductions in force, I was given more duties, but not more money.  [00:12:47] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:48] Kelly: And, you know, you do that long enough, you start getting the message that, oh, well, your time really isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:54] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:55] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:56] Jason: Who decides what your time's worth?  [00:12:57] Kelly: I do.  [00:12:58] Jason: Yeah. I do. [00:12:59] Yes.  [00:12:59] Kelly: I do.  [00:13:00] Yeah!  [00:13:01] And, you know, that's... [00:13:02] you do now. Yes.  [00:13:03] Jason: How has that shifted for you then? What's your perception of your time and the value of it? of your time now?  [00:13:09] Kelly: My perception of my time is, you know, first of all, I don't need to be tied to the Henry Ford 40 hour work week or even the 50-60-70-80 hour work week that I hear people say you "should" do when you're running a business because, you know, it's impractical. [00:13:24] I have a daughter. She's a teenager. She's just started high school this year. She's a field hockey athlete and now she wants to be on the swim team and she's got needs. Mhm. Right? I've got a husband who does not have a cushy job I can fall back on while I do my entrepreneurial thing.  [00:13:40] Jason: Right. Right. [00:13:41] Kelly: He's also an entrepreneur. [00:13:43] We are living off self employment income. So it is a constant, you know, point of stress. So, you know, I need to find out my key productivity time, and that's when I work. And sometimes I get four or five hours a day, and that's it, of key productivity time. But then I find myself, you know, when I'm walking the dog, having all these great ideas. [00:14:06] You know, I do things like I listen to your podcast you know, some great audio books that have been recommended to me. I devoured The One Thing by Gary Keller, the Profit First book. And I'm starting to implement these ideas. And it's just sort of like they're ladder steps.  [00:14:23] Jason: So basically, little by little, you've been investing in yourself by leveraging reading, getting coaching, doing this stuff. [00:14:31] And that's translated into you valuing yourself a little bit more.  [00:14:35] Yeah.  [00:14:35] Awesome.  [00:14:36] Kelly: Absolutely. And I've learned to turn things over, like maintenance, you know, I hired one of the vendors that you recommended, Vendoroo and they're, you know, the tenants still text me with maintenance issues. [00:14:47] Sure. And I text back, "put it in the portal." Right. "If you can't put it in the portal, call this number and they'll teach you how to put it in the portal."  [00:14:55] Jason: But yeah, probably less willing to take phone calls than you were before.  [00:14:58] Kelly: Yeah, I've never really taken phone calls.  [00:15:00] Jason: That's good, that's good. [00:15:02] Kelly: Thanks me. Get it all in writing.  [00:15:04] Jason: So you went through our whole rapid revamp process as well, like with the branding and like getting everything kind of dialed in, pricing. You've implemented a lot of things. And so, has that impacted your confidence level as well?  [00:15:20] Kelly: Oh, absolutely. I really feel like, you know, I'm marketing a real brand now with Crimson Cape. [00:15:25] Jason: Yeah. What, what was it before that?  [00:15:26] Kelly: GPGH Management Company.  [00:15:29] Jason: Oh, the acronym.  [00:15:30] Kelly: Yep. Good People, Good Homes.  [00:15:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:15:32] Kelly: You know, just to take off of that and, you know, everything was GPGH. My husband was GPGH Realty.  [00:15:38] Jason: It sounds like some sort of drug or something. What do you take in GPGH? [00:15:42] Kelly: Well, it's the right market. [00:15:44] Jason: Okay. Well, then there's that GLP 1 joke too that you could put in there. GLP 1. Yeah. But my husband actually reprinted his real estate company because of, you know, he was inspired by what I did.  [00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's his brand?  [00:15:56] Kelly: He's Gorilla Real Estate. That's the little stuffed gorilla you saw on the way in. [00:16:00] Jason: Okay, yeah. Yeah, and they're different, which is nice. They're not like, you know, kind of mixed together.  [00:16:06] Kelly: Right, right. And I don't want, you know, people to really associate us together, even though we do share an office.  [00:16:11] Jason: Yeah.  [00:16:12] For now.  [00:16:13] So you've gone through the branding, your pricing is different than anyone else in the market. [00:16:19] Kelly: Yeah. It's higher than anyone else in the market too. And that keeps a lot of the riffraff away.  [00:16:24] Jason: Yeah. It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom. For sure. Yeah. Especially in a difficult or lower end market. Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. What other changes?  [00:16:36] Sarah: I think, well, how many, we've gone through the rapid revamp a couple of times, so she's done the mindset piece a few times, and I think every time you go through it, you kind of get, like, an extra layer out of it, like almost like the next, like we're stacking like, levels and levels and levels of different like mindset tips and tricks, and then the perception piece, which once we're done with the little pieces on the website, we can get that launched for you. [00:17:04] I think that will make a huge difference. And recently. I mean, for the whole entirety of the time that you were in our program, you had always said "there is no way I can add more units. There is no way I can do more work. There is no way I can even focus on growth." And you are now adding new doors. [00:17:24] Kelly: Yep, I added three last week. I added another two Sunday night from a current client. I didn't know she had another double block. You know how I got those doors? She called me from you know, her poor husband is at the Cleveland Clinic. So she called me from Cleveland and she's like "I got a no heat call from this one building that you're not managing And I can't deal with it. Can you please take these units?"  [00:17:47] Jason: Nice.  [00:17:48] Kelly: So I just got two more doors.  [00:17:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:17:50] Kelly: And I'm hopefully closing on another five by the end of the week.  [00:17:53] Yes! [00:17:55] Jason: So doors are just starting to flow and you're able to dedicate time now towards growth which before you're kind of  [00:18:01] Kelly: yeah  [00:18:01] Jason: Chicken with head cut off running around and dealing with stuff. [00:18:04] Kelly: It's going to get a little iffy again now that I've added these doors, you know, okay. Now I have to onboard all these tenants. And there's a couple that come with the vacant units that they want me to rent in January?  [00:18:16] Jason: Yeah.  [00:18:17] Sarah: The best time of year here.  [00:18:21] Jason: Right. Lots of activity.  [00:18:23] Sarah: Speaking of vacant units, You have none now in the portfolio that you're Managing? [00:18:28] My current portfolio, I filled them all.  [00:18:31] Yeah, and how many did you have? Because I feel like all throughout the year I was getting updates and it was like 20 something and down a little bit, down a little bit, and now you're at zero.  [00:18:41] Kelly: Yeah, I filled I think 17 units over the course of the last year. [00:18:45] Amazing.  [00:18:46] 10 of them were filled between September and now.  [00:18:50] Jason: Nice. Wow.  [00:18:50] Kelly: And I've got a few that are coming up. I've got, you know, two of my tenants are moving into senior housing. So, you know, that means I'm probably going to have to redo their apartments because they've been living there since like 1965 or whatever. [00:19:04] I'm sure they're going to need to be some updates.  [00:19:07] Jason: So in getting this business started, if you hadn't heard about DoorGrow, or say, DoorGrow didn't exist. Where would you be you think right now?  [00:19:15] Kelly: Oh my gosh.  [00:19:16] Jason: What'd be going on?  [00:19:17] Kelly: I'm not sure I'd still be doing it.  [00:19:19] Jason: You think you would have quit?  [00:19:20] Kelly: With this client that I took on from the beginning, if I didn't know any better, I would think this is what property management is. [00:19:27] Jason: And you'd be like, yeah, right, so talking with us saying you should probably fire this client was probably enough to go, "okay, this may not be everybody."  [00:19:35] Kelly: Right. [00:19:36] Jason: Okay. [00:19:36] Kelly: Right, right. And you know, and you also helped me work with this client. So he's still my client, and he could be a very good client now that his buildings are cash flowing. But that remains to be seen because I got a little pushback on a repair last night that I wasn't real happy with, but we'll see. [00:19:53] Jason: You're going to set some strong boundaries with this guy.  [00:19:56] Kelly: I might have to punch him in the face a third time.  [00:19:58] Jason: Metaphorically. Right, right. Metaphorically, we're not advocating violence. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well anything else that we should chat about or cover? I mean, it's really been, like I said at the beginning, it's been inspiring and exciting to see you grow. [00:20:13] We're really excited to see where you take this and we've seen just it and that's why we do what we do. It's great to see clients just grow like you've come so far. Your whole energy is just different. Just how you are from when we saw you at DoorGrow live and you're like, well, what's your time worth? [00:20:29] And you're, you've spouted off, "well, not very much," you know, or whatever you've come a long way. And I'm really excited to see where you go with this because this could be a really great residual income business. I think absolutely it will overshadow what you're making off your rental properties, but then it also feed you some more real estate deals in the future. [00:20:47] For sure as you, as you work this. And so, yeah, I think it'll be interesting. And how does the, the king of Gorilla Real Estate feel about everything that you're doing?  [00:20:56] Kelly: Oh, he's incredibly supportive. Yeah. I think he misses when I used to just, you know, clean up his bookkeeping for him. We now have to hire someone to do that. [00:21:05] Jason: Mm-hmm. Yes. Those wealthy problems. Yeah.  [00:21:07] Kelly: And yeah, and that's another mindset thing I need to get over. And you cover this in the rapid revamp when you're talking about, you know, the three types of clients you got, your, your normals, which you're, you're aiming for.  [00:21:18] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:18] Kelly: But then you've got, you know, your cheapos and your premiums. [00:21:21] Sure.  [00:21:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:21] Kelly: And and, and one of the things you talked about, the cheapos is. Are you a cheapo?  [00:21:27] Jason: Oh. Yeah.  [00:21:27] Kelly: And I realize that, yeah, I kind of am a cheapo.  [00:21:30] Jason: You get what you attract. Huh. And so, yeah, we're blind, we have a blind spot towards which category we are showing up as, and so stretching yourself to not be a cheapo. [00:21:41] Kelly: I grew up with nothing. You know, I grew up with nothing, so, yeah, that's why I'm a cheapo.  [00:21:47] Sarah: Yeah. And I get it, because I too was in that mindset, especially when I lived here.  [00:21:52] This area is in that mindset. [00:21:54] Yes, the whole area is very, and when you find someone who kind of breaks through that bubble, It's odd here, right? [00:22:03] And it's different. And it's weird. And it's like, what are they doing? What is this all about? This is just weird. Like, why are you not, you know, normal like us? And when that was something that I had struggled with for a very, very long time, too, because back when I had lived here, I thought, "okay, well, I want to make more money. And like, I need to make more money. And the only way I can do that is I can either work more hours and maybe get some overtime or maybe I can find a job that's going to pay me more and or ask for a raise, or and this is my go to strategy, was let's just work two jobs, three jobs, four jobs." I was working four jobs at a time. [00:22:44] I was working seven days a week and I did that for years and years and years just because, well, this job I maxed out on and I can't get any more money out of here, but I need more money, so, oh, let me just add on another job. Yeah, so I understand that completely and it was just, it was with time that that started to just crack and shift a little bit. [00:23:02] Jason: Kind of the trap of time for dollars. As if that's the only way.  [00:23:07] Sarah: Absolutely. Absolutely.  [00:23:09] Jason: So yeah, so being exposed just to other people that are not of that mindset probably is cracks that glass ceiling you spoke of a little bit before maybe.  [00:23:19] Kelly: Right. Yeah. And what I'm noticing is that I'm attracting people, local people, that have a similar mindset and they exist. [00:23:28] You know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs in this area. Chris Jones started Pepper Jam, and he decided to keep his company here.  [00:23:34] Sarah: Oh, wow.  [00:23:34] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a few. Tech company, you might have heard of them. But yeah, there's, there's a few.  [00:23:39] Jason: So, you are no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:42] Kelly: No. I, well, I'm working on it. [00:23:45] I'm working on it. I catch myself.  [00:23:46] Jason: You say... [00:23:47] Kelly: I am no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:49] Jason: I am more normal.  [00:23:51] Kelly: I am more normal.  [00:23:52] Jason: Graduating towards premium.  [00:23:53] Kelly: And I'm graduating towards premium.  [00:23:55] Jason: It's good to be premium. We get to decide this, right? We get to decide this. [00:24:00] And so as you stretch yourself into more premium experience and recognizing, like, money is not the painful thing to be focused on, there's, and there's better things to be focused on that are more valuable and more important, like your time. And as you put a greater and greater premium on your time, you shift out of that currency of cash being the, you know, the God of your life controlling you and then you can start to be grateful. [00:24:26] And I think one of the key things for everybody listening is when we start to celebrate all of the things that we used to complain about related to money, I think this is how we shift out of that poverty mindset is, oh, we got to pay this bill. Thank you God that I have lights and power that I'm able to afford to do this. [00:24:44] Or thank you that I'm able to do this. And when we start to be grateful instead of projecting pain every time we see or hear money, And we start to project gratitude, then we start to attract more money. Like we start to be open to that. And as we shift into normal, yeah, we attract more normals. As we shift into premium, we attract more premium clients. [00:25:05] And they recognize you. It's like, there's a knowing between you and them, like, yeah, this is how it works. You come to us and we take care of everything and we take care of you and you get a premium service and product and they're like, "yeah, that's what I want." because premium buyers, when they see people that are cheapos. [00:25:20] They can like kind of smell it on you, right? So then they're like, "I don't want to work with this person. They're not going to take care of my property the way that I would want or do things or take care of me the way that I want." And so investing in ourselves. Sometimes for me, one of my coaches said, "go get a massage, you know, go do things to invest or take care of yourself to where you feel like..." you know, anything where we say, I think the poverty mindset is we hear this voice that says, " I don't need that nicer car. You don't need to go get a massage. Why do you need that?" Normal and premium is about shifting beyond need, right? Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival, and so, and then what happens is we have to create drama or problems in our life in order to justify taking time off, so we have to get sick, or we have to justify it. [00:26:09] Doing something and so when we shift out of that then we shift into a healthier state where we can decide I am going to take a vacation or I am going to take time off. I'm going to go to DoorGrow live. You should all go to DoorGrow live, so.  [00:26:20] Sarah: I highly recommend coming up in May!  [00:26:23] Jason: It's coming up in May. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. So, all right anything else we should touch on?  [00:26:28] Sarah: One thing and I don't know if I've ever said this on the coach a call where you've been on but for me, it was actually Roya Mattis. She, at the time, was in Mary Kay like, and I was in cosmetic sales for Mary Kay, and It was very early in my Mary Kay career and I was kind of learning how to be entrepreneur ish, right? [00:26:53] Like, "Oh, I can write these things off and I can do things differently" and, "Oh, this is an expense, but it's a good expense." And it was a lot of new things for me. And one of the things that she had said is and I'll never forget because it just stuck with me and I went, "Oh, okay." Yeah, I need to stop thinking like that right now. [00:27:11] Is " come tax time, there are people who can't wait for tax time because they're waiting. They're depending on that refund and they're like, 'Oh, thank God I get this refund.' Right?" [00:27:21] A lot of rent gets caught up in it. [00:27:23] It sure does. Yeah. Funny. All of a sudden they have money. So. Once you start really making money, though, you don't get refunds anymore. [00:27:33] What ends up happening is you pay money. And not only do you pay money into it, but you now are, like, quarterly paying money. But you don't have to do that if you're, like, barely scraping by, if you're not making money. So, what she said to me is, " when you're, like, rich and you're making money You're excited to pay this money because you're making so much money that now, not only are not going to get a refund, but you don't, you don't worry about the refund, you're making money and now you're paying the taxes and you are going to hit a point where you want to be paying taxes more often than just once a year because that means you've reached a certain level and now you're making a certain amount of money and your goal at that point is then going to be, 'well, how can I increase this?'" [00:28:24] And that for me, it just stuck in my head forever. And I went, "Oh. Oh, geez. I didn't even realize that." And at that time I was, I was. Like, "well, I'm going to get a couple thousand dollars back, like on my tax refund." I haven't gotten a refund in years. And it's true though. It's just a different way of thinking about things. [00:28:40] It's like, well, you know, if you make this tiny little bit of money and then I can get, you know, a couple thousand dollars back at the end of the year, or I can make a whole lot more money. And then, yes, I have to make some quarterly tax payments. Man, I'd rather make a lot more money and I'll just give the government some of it. [00:28:54] And then what you have to do is just figure out how can we reduce that as much as possible.  [00:28:59] Jason: I would love to see taxes just be reduced dramatically. So, we'll see.  [00:29:04] Kelly: But, who knows what they're going to do.  [00:29:05] Jason: I don't get super excited about paying taxes, but I do get excited. I would rather, like, see more income on my tax return. [00:29:13] You know taxes every time so.  [00:29:14] Sarah: Would you rather make the big amount of money so that you have to pay the taxes in or would you make a really small amount of money so that you get a refund?  [00:29:22] Kelly: Yeah, just a really good accountant that can help you zig when the government zags  [00:29:26] Sarah: So that that was something that she said to me and I went oh, okay, that is a very different way of thinking about it. [00:29:33] And it just, just stuck with me.  [00:29:35] Jason: Yeah. Always looking through the lens of 'why is this positive?' it's a healthy mindset for sure. Yeah. Why are taxes positive? All right. Everybody listening is like, "they're not."  [00:29:45] Sarah: I know. Right. Cool. My brother wants a shout out. So shout out to Jason.  [00:29:50] Jason: What's up, Jason? [00:29:51] Sarah: He's like, "you never shout me out!" Here, here you are. The three of us are waving to you now. So, what's up, Jason?  [00:29:58] Jason: No, he's got the same name as me. Everybody's like, what's that all about?  [00:30:01] He's dating a Sarah.  [00:30:03] Kelly: Oh!  [00:30:04] Jason: Which is funny. And you have a stepsister, that's Sarah, so he's got two, three Sarahs in his life right now. [00:30:13] Three Sarahs, two Jasons, and a partridge in a pear tree. All right. Cool. Well, Kelly, it's been great coming to hang out in your office and to meet you in person like here in Pennsylvania. Thanks for hosting the DoorGrow show and having us hang out with you and we're excited to see where you go and how you progress in the program and all the things you're going to do as you add doors. [00:30:36] And I think the future is really bright for Crimson Property Management, Crimson Cape. Hey, I missed the Cape. It's like superhero stuff here. Yes. I am. I love it. All right. And that's it. So if you are tuning in, make sure to check us out at DoorGrow. com. And if you are wanting to grow your property management business, or you are getting burnt out on it, or you are one of the many sucky property management companies that exist, you don't have to be. [00:31:04] It could be good. It could be better. Then reach out to us. We would love to help you scale and grow your business. We help people from startup all the way to breaking the thousand door barrier. Whatever your goal is reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow. com. Bye everyone.  [00:31:18] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:45] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Gobernadores manifiestan su apoyo a SheinbaumPiden a habitantes de Cumbres del Rubí en Tijuana evacuar la zona por incendioTienes hasta el 25 de enero para llevar tu árbol de Navidad a un centro de acopio en la MHMás información en nuestro Podcast

On the first MHM episode of 2025, Iggy returns from a long break to celebrate a new year and honor the blessings of the last. Iggy discusses setting goals in a balanced and obtainable fashion on this episode and shares some personal goals he wishes to gain this year. Happy new year and enjoy the new episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join hosts Dimity McDowell and Sarah Wassner Flynn as they reflect on the Many Happy Miles program, its vibrant community, and the inspiring stories of members who've become better runners and people through their participation. Dimity shares the origins of Many Happy Miles and how it has grown over the past six years. Then, hear from current Many Happy Miles members about how the program has positively impacted their lives, including: Jenna Molster & Ellen Harr, two best running friends who met through Many Happy Miles; Kate Barbier, who shares how the strength training baked into Many Happy Miles has complemented her running; and, Amy Davis, who reconnected with running (and even got a PR!) after a challenging four-year break, thanks to the support of Many Happy Miles. Throughout the episode, hear from other MHM members who share their highlights from the year. Feeling inspired to join Many Happy Miles in 2025? Registration is still open—don't miss out on the chance to be part of this supportive community! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bex Scott welcomes guest Ruth from Periwinkle Collectibles on Instagram to the show to talk all about Federal Glass, among other things. Ruth teaches Bex some fascinating facts about Federal Glass, their patterns, which country they released certain items in, and how to spot the collectibles in the wild. Not every thrift trip can be single-minded, however, so Bex and Ruth talk about some of the other vintage items they search for and enjoy as well.  Ruth claims Pyrex collecting was her gateway into other milk glass companies, patterns, and makers, and admits that in the early days, she would find something she thought was Pyrex only to bring it home and learn it wasn't. Through those research lessons, she found that something she initially thought was Fire King was in fact Federal Glass and that sent her on a whole new collecting journey. Bex learns about the sheer number of varieties of dot colors and sets available in Federal Glass, how so many promotional items came to be made of Federal Glass, and how to differentiate Federal from other items in the wild. Join this episode to learn what Facebook Group to join for identifying Federal, what pieces are most sought-after, and exactly how many collections Ruth draws the line at maintaining. Resources discussed in this episode:Vintage Federal Glass Facebook GroupEarly American Pattern Glass Society: Federal Glass vintage patterns reference“Shield F - The Mark of Quality” by Marg Iwen, Winter 2006, The Federation of Historical Bottle CollectorsFederal Glass circus bowlsFederal Glass dots bowlsFederal Glass mushroom bowl1974 Federal Glass ad page—Contact Ruth | Periwinkle CollectiblesInstagram: @periwinklecollectiblesContact Rebecca Scott | Pyrex With Bex: Website: PyrexWithBex.comInstagram: @pyrexwithbex— TranscriptBex Scott: [00:00:02] Hey everybody, it's Bex Scott and welcome to the Pyrex with Bex podcast where, you guessed it, I talk about vintage Pyrex, but also all things vintage housewares. I'll take you on my latest thrifting adventures, talk about reselling, chat with other enthusiasts about their collections, and learn about a bunch of really awesome items from the past. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love listening to podcasts so you don't miss a beat. Hey everybody, this is Bex Scott and you are listening to the Pyrex with Bex podcast. And today I am very excited to have Ruth from Periwinkle Collectibles. Welcome back Ruth. Ruth: [00:00:41] Hi Bex, it's good to be back. Bex Scott: [00:00:44] How have you been since we last talked? Ruth: [00:00:46] Oh, it's been a great, wonderful summer. But the days are getting shorter, the leaves are starting to fall, and it's time to start thinking about collections, isn't it? Bex Scott: [00:00:57] It is. And my favorite Halloween fall season for Pyrex displays is just around the corner and I, as everybody knows, am an avid Pyrex collector. You collect Pyrex yourself, but today I'm very excited because you are going to talk to us about a different collection that you have. So maybe just kick us off and let us know what you're going to be chatting about. Ruth: [00:01:23] Sure, sure. I thought that Pyrex, at least for me, was a gateway into a lot of other milk glass companies and patterns and makers, and many of us have found something at the thrift, found something out in the wild, brought it home thinking it was Pyrex. Started doing a little bit of research. And for me, this was before Google Image and before AI put all kinds of weird things out there, but it was before Google Image, so you'd have to try and describe what you had found to figure out, well, this isn't Pyrex, because it takes a while to realize that most Pyrex pieces have Pyrex stamped on them. And so you find a pretty white bowl at the thrift store with a really cute pattern, or what you think is really cute. And I mean, now I just, I flip things over and look for the maker mark. But back then I would just go oh 2.99 and this is pretty, in the cart it goes, and I'd bring it home and I'd go, oh, I found this great Pyrex. And then I'd start looking at it and trying to figure out the pattern and oh my gosh, I realized it wasn't Pyrex. Well, then what the heck was it? Well, I found quite a few pieces that had a really large capital F in a shield and I thought, wow, I found Fire-King! And I went on, this is the days of Facebook groups being the only place to really share things. Ruth: [00:02:51] This is kind of early days of Instagram and before a lot of other social media. I remember going onto a Fire-King group and excitedly sharing what I had found. And wow, I got politely but quickly schooled that what I had found was not Fire-King, but it was Federal. And I'm like Federal? What the heck is that? So I started looking up the patterns of that and going, oh. So I mean, Federal Glass was a company that was around for, I think, around 80-ish years in the States. I think they were in Ohio. They started off making, I think it was like pressed glass in the early 1900s. They made an awful lot of depression glass. And I'll be honest, even though I lived through the 80s and 90s, I have never collected depression glass in my life. A lot of my friends were collecting depression glass during that time, but I never really got into it. It didn't, it didn't appeal to me because depression glass, that's a whole nother discussion. But Federal made a lot of depression glass. They made a lot of barware. But what I particularly really enjoy is the opal ware or the, what people call milk glass, and the pretty patterns that I thought were made by Federal. Because when I flipped the bowl or the casserole or the mug over, it had an F and a shield. But I also discovered that, well, Federal made an awful lot of milk glass or opal ware, they also sold what was called blanks to decorator companies. And so I live in Canada, and what I have learned over the years is that in particular, there was a company outside of Toronto that did a lot of decorating of Federal blanks and other Fire-King and a few other blanks too, and they were called Cutler. C U T L E R. So they, like, printed on Federal blanks. And that's kind of the main reason why the Federal glass that's found in Canada, it's a lot of different patterns. I mean, there is some overlap, but there's quite a lot of patterns that are more commonly found in Canada than in the States. Bex Scott: [00:05:19] Interesting. I am already learning things from you because I had no idea. I had heard of Cutler and I'd heard of Federal Glass, but that is very cool. Ruth: [00:05:29] Yeah, I mean Cutler, they bought blanks from other companies and they did a lot of glassware. But basically their thing was they decorated glassware. You know, they painted onto items made by other companies. So there's a lot of Federal Glass in Canada that is tourist ware, you know, mugs with city, city and town names on them and festivals and hockey teams and businesses and things like that. And of course, it exists in the States also, and Federal in the states was also making decorated milk glass and other glass items. But it explains why some patterns show up in Canada in way larger quantities. There was a gas company in Quebec, I believe it was, that gave away the circus bowls. That's a pattern that a lot of Federal collectors, or you've probably seen it too, it has like red, orange, green, blue pattern around the edge of various circus animals and circus carts and things. Well, that was a giveaway from a gas station in Quebec. Bex Scott: [00:06:41] No way. Ruth: [00:06:43] Yes way. Bex Scott: [00:06:44] I would love to get that from a gas station. Why can't we get that from gas stations now? Ruth: [00:06:48] I know. When I could, when I could afford gas in the 80s, it was Petro Can. And all we got was those ugly glasses that said every garage sale you ever go to in Canada. But this was an earlier time because I think Federal Glass was out of business by 1980, for sure. I've seen a whole bunch of different sources. Some say 77, some say 79, whatever. By 1980, they were gone. So a lot of this stuff was given away in the 60s and 70s. But that's why there's so many circus bowls in Canada, in particular in Ontario and Quebec. And maybe the company was in Ontario as well, but definitely found way more in the eastern half of Canada than the western half of Canada. Bex Scott: [00:07:31] So has that made the circus bowls more popular in the States for collectors? Ruth: [00:07:37] Yeah, yeah, that does do that because they're harder to find. And isn't that what always happens with collectors is the sought-after is the harder to find? Is that just the way we are as people? Is that just... Bex Scott: [00:07:54] Yeah. We always want what we can't have. Ruth: [00:07:56] Exactly, exactly. So it was like the circus bowls. And then there was also the dots. There's way more of them that show up. And that's in particular one of my favorite patterns, because along the way, as I was looking for Pyrex, I found a brown dot Federal mug that I thought was kind of cute. So I brought it home and started looking at how many colors does that come in? And I went, well, I'm going to see what I can find. And eight years later, 27 mugs later, I'm still finding new ones. Bex Scott: [00:08:35] That was going to be my next question. How many different dot colors does it come in? Ruth: [00:08:40] Oh boy. Well, yeah. First of all, there's two dot variations. There's one where all the dots are the same size, basically, and another where there's two sizes of dots. And then the shape of the mug, there's three variations. So the colors, I think basically it's about 6 or 8 per shape. And then on the two size dots I've only ever been able to find or hear of about 6. We have on the Facebook group, the Federal Facebook group that I belong to, which Bex is going to link in the podcast. Bex Scott: [00:09:23] Yes. And they finally just accepted me. They actually accepted me really fast. So now I can drool over all of the beautiful photos. Ruth: [00:09:30] And it's, it's, there are some books out there on Federal, but not really that concentrate on the milk glass side of it. They're more the depression glass and the pressed glass type of stuff. So in that Facebook group, there's a lot of albums in there which a lot of Canadian and American collectors have contributed to, to help with that body of knowledge and help us figure out what was Cutler. And people have actually found some Cutler catalogs as well. But to help us figure out what was the actual pattern names, because there is no official websites or books, a lot of Federal patterns have nicknames, and there's multiple nicknames for a lot of the patterns. And then we find a catalog page and realize the name is actually not at all what anyone has ever called it. Bex Scott: [00:10:22] Mm. Yeah. Kind of like Pyrex with some of the strange nicknames that the bowls get out there. Ruth: [00:10:29] Yeah, yeah. Because there was no real company information. And so people make things up, like for example, for Federal there's a - oh, there's also a dot pattern that I didn't even talk about, which most people refer to as atomic, where it's a dot with like a little kind of swirl circle around it. I mean, one, no company in the 50s or 60s or 70s - this is just one of my pet peeves - ever named anything atomic. That name is retroactive. But that aside, that pattern name is actually called Bolero. And there's catalog proof in the Federal group for anyone who wants to argue that one. Printed proof. But the dots, I don't think, ever really had a name that we found so far because they were mostly Cutler. Some were released in the States. But that explains why on the dot bowls there's five different sizes, and Federal bowls are measured, similar to how Pyrex bowls are, across the top in inches for the people who don't like to talk the Pyrex models of 401 or 402 or whatever. Some people think of them in regards to how many inches they are. But Federal there's no molds, i.e. size numbers on them. So they're always called 5 inch, 6 inch, 7, 8, 9 inch, etc. so there's basically five sizes for the regular mixing bowls. There's no Cinderella bowls, there's no space savers, there's no divideds, but there is covered casseroles. There is a few baking dishes. But anyhow, sorry, where was my brain going with that? I was talking about the differences. But that's why people, that's why there are kind of select colors for the dots in 5 to 9 inch, whereas 9 inches super rare has only been found in a couple of colors and a 5 inch in a few more colors, but the 6, 7 and 8, which were a typical 3 bowl set for Federal, came in even more colors. Ruth: [00:12:44] Like, I think there's 8 or 10 colors for every size there. So when people say, well, what was the official set? What did it look like? Well, there's only a few catalog pages showing some of those variations. And of course, over time sets have been broken up and also a lot of those bowls were sold individually. So people would buy bowls and make up their own sets. You know, they'd pick, you know, a yellow 5 inch and a pink 7 inch and et cetera, et cetera. There are a few standard color combinations that were released, and that's just for one pattern. The dots. Stories like that surround almost every pattern where Blossom Time, for instance, there are certain colors you can find all over the place in Canada, but in the States, they they have a whole other color because they're, Federal made it, the pattern, and here Cutler made the pattern. Or, like some Pyrex stuff, just certain patterns were shipped to certain parts of the country or certain, you know, Kmart bought this product line and Kresge bought this other one and The Bay... I don't think The Bay and Eaton's carried Federal because the quality of Federal is different than Pyrex. Bex Scott: [00:14:07] Mhm. I was going to say it. How do you explain it? Is it a little less in quality would you say, than Pyrex? Ruth: [00:14:14] I would say, yeah. I mean that's, that's my personal opinion, just based upon the hundreds of pieces that I've seen over the years. And what happens if you, if your Federal piece accidentally goes into the dishwasher, it deteriorates much quicker than the end of the year is the 70s and 80s Pyrex that, you know, the odd dishwasher trip doesn't usually do too much harm, but Federal, half a dozen dishwasher trips can turn the whole thing into a piece of opal. Bex Scott: [00:14:48] You'd be left with a lot of opal in your collection. Ruth: [00:14:50] Yeah, well, and Federal had released a lot of opal. Like, it's very common to find just the plain nesting bowl that's Federal at the thrift or the flea or garage sale or whatever. And it can be hard to tell whether it was released that way or whether it was dishwasher, but if it's shiny, generally it was released that way. So, I mean, I probably find 15 - 20 opal Federal bowls for every one pattern that I find, at least, if not more. And I probably have, okay, I have a few sets of 5 to 9 inch oval and some of the sizes, again, way more common to find. 6, 7 and 8 inch super common, 5 fairly common, the bigger ones a little less common because sometimes it's just what people use and they also scratch on the interior quicker, like the pattern wears off faster. The interior scratches easier. Metal mixers do a real number on them. And while there's, you know, the school of people who are like, well, you know, you got to use, do you use it? You know, always the first question out of non-collectors mouth. Do you use it? And for Federal, yeah. You know, I use it, but I carefully hand wash it and hand use a gentle linen cloth and dry it and put it back on the shelf so it retains its shine because it, 100% agree with you, it does not have the quality and also the baking durability. It doesn't have that Pyrex baking durability. But that doesn't mean, it's still beautiful. It came in a lot of really pretty pretty patterns and some that are very highly sought-after. Are you aware of any of the Federal patterns or anything that's crossed your radar that you thought was? Bex Scott: [00:16:51] I think the only ones that I really knew of were, I'd heard of the circus, the stripes, there's the dots and then the daisy ones I've seen before. Ruth: [00:17:02] Right, right, right. The daisy. And then there's also a mushroom set that's quite sought-after. Bex Scott: [00:17:09] Everybody loves anything mushroom. Ruth: [00:17:10] Yeah, but it's also, it's primary colored mushrooms. Bex Scott: [00:17:15] Okay, I like that. Ruth: [00:17:16] Yeah, yeah. So it has like the yellow, the orange. There's like kind of 5, which I know is more than actually primary colors. But it was like a yellow, orange, red, green and blue that the mushroom set also comes in, and again, a kind of a printed band around the upper edge, which is a fairly common thing for, and it was a, I believe that one was a Cutler one as well. I think that one was a Cutler one as well. There's also some sort of harlequin or diamond type patterns that some people are very fond of. I mean, it's, right now it's the bright colors that appeal to people. There's a pattern that looks like French onion that Federal actually called Bucks County. Bex Scott: [00:18:05] Hmm. Where does that name come from? Ruth: [00:18:08] No clue. No clue. You'll rarely find it online under that name unless somebody has a box. But that's what it's called. There's a couple of variations on the kind of gingham tablecloth red and white check look. Bex Scott: [00:18:25] Oh, I've seen those. Do they come in little cereal bowls? Ruth: [00:18:28] Yes, they - oh, yeah, that's true. We didn't talk about cereal bowls, which is a shape size that Pyrex didn't really-- Bex Scott: [00:18:37] -- yeah-- Ruth: [00:18:38] -- didn't really do. I mean, Fire-King did a lot of, but, and so when you find them out in the wild with that little, that little cereal bowl, which I think most people nowadays would more call it a snack bowl, but, you know, they're even smaller than 401s. They have often a band of color around them. And they're generally, when you find them, they're either Anchor Hocking/Fire-King, or they are Federal. And just a quick flip to the bottom of the bowl looking for, you know, either one of the Fire-King logos or the Anchor Hocking logo, or the infamous F, large capital F in a shield to let you know which it is. And there's some patterns that kind of look like they might be Fire-King. There's a little bit, you know, there's popular patterns, like the KitchenAid pattern that Hazel-Atlas put out, which is like the turquoise or commonly turquoise, it looks like a coffee pot and a bowl and cups and plates that go around the outer rim of the bowl of Federal did a version of that, which I think that one was the Cutler one, I can't remember. Got to look on the albums on the group, but that I've only found one of, that's a bit harder one to find as well because it's pretty, you know, Hazel-Atlas had the just turquoise. Every single bowl was turquoise. Federal, of course, always does the color variation where each size of bowl is a different color. And then there's also some black and gold patterns. There's some all gold patterns. No clear lids, the lids, the lidded casseroles always have opal lids with a fairly distinctive knob shape. Bex Scott: [00:20:28] And are the lids as hard to find in Federal as they are in Pyrex now? Ruth: [00:20:33] Oh, harder. Harder, harder. Bex Scott: [00:20:35] Oh no. Harder. Ruth: [00:20:38] Because they didn't release as many, they didn't do, like they only had, there's only a few - I'm trying to think if it's 3 or 4 covered casseroles that came with lids. And those casseroles are, some people even call them bowls because they're round with sort of a shape at the bottom that's very reminiscent of the Fire-King splash proof bowls, but it's only on half of the bowl. It's like the top, it's like they couldn't decide who to flatter with their repetition of that pattern, you know, Pyrex with the roundness or Fire-King with the splash. So it's like a hybrid between the two. That's how, I don't know really if that's what was their intent, but that's how I've always thought of them in the casseroles and then the bakeware. There's kind of an oval dish, a couple of them, but the shapes are much, much more limited, you know, which is also probably contributed to their, they were sold for less money, sold by the lower end department stores, from what I've been able to see from advertisements and such, because they weren't as durable, they scratched up faster, they broke faster. Not quite Glass Bake. Sorry, not a fan. Bex Scott: [00:21:56] That's okay. I'm not either. Ruth: [00:21:58] But you know, you look at Glass Bake sideways and it cracks, scratches. Federal at least, you know, sure, maybe it scratches as fast, but at least it's pretty. Bex Scott: [00:22:15] It is. And speaking of not being a fan, is there a pattern in Federal or a couple patterns that you would say have a resounding, like the fan base isn't there for them, they're maybe considered ugly or not as desirable? Because I know in Pyrex it's usually Old Orchard and Forest Fancy that doesn't have a lot of love. So is there anything, anything in Federal like that? Ruth: [00:22:44] There's a pattern that's kind of black, a little bit of black with some brown flowers that not too many people are fond of. There's a pattern called Bouquet that comes in a dark teal that people aren't as fond of, because there's quite a bit of it out there. Whereas actually there's one size in that pattern and color that is super desirable because they barely released any. It's weird. It's one of those things where what is it, like, Woodlawn, where there's, like tons of 401 to 403, but the 404 is hard to find. Or was it Snowflake Garland where the 401 to 403 is, you know, it's a middle of the road pattern, but the 404 is super hard to find. So therefore people like it more. There's some of that going on. There's also a gold-only pattern, I think it's called Golden Glory, that was quite common. You've probably seen it. It kind of looks like gold bushes. Bex Scott: [00:23:52] Oh yeah. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Ruth: [00:23:54] Yeah. And it was actually released twice. So that's why there's so much of it. It was first released in the, oh, I'm trying to remember, in the late 50s. Because I'm fond of it, because it's the pattern I grew up with, it's what my mother had. Right? Bex Scott: [00:24:11] Yeah. You have the memories associated with it. Ruth: [00:24:13] Right. But the pattern itself is not very popular. And then it was rereleased again, I think in the 70s when they were trying not to go under. So there's that. The golden brown, there isn't as many brown patterns as there is in Pyrex. I mean, there isn't as many patterns, period. But some of them are just, they're just, they're cute, they're adorable. They come in a lot of variations. And heck, we live in Canada where there's actually more of it. So I, I at first would leave it behind all the time because I was like, no, no, I'm only collecting Pyrex, I'm only collecting Pyrex. And then as you collect more of something and it gets harder to find and you start looking at the other, you start, you know, because there's generally very little monogamy in glass collecting, but you just start looking, you know, at the other things available and the other patterns and bringing them home and kind of going, oh, because I remember saying to some of my friends, no, I don't. I brought this home, isn't it pretty? And they're like, didn't you say you don't collect Federal? That was like, you know, 2000. Bex Scott: [00:25:27] That sounds familiar with me, too. Yeah. Ruth: [00:25:32] And before you know it, you're collecting it. Bex Scott: [00:25:35] Yeah. I've slowed down a lot on the Pyrex collecting lately, and maybe Federal is my next new thing that I have to to collect. So I'm looking at all these bright, cheery photos, and there's one in the vintage Federal Glass Facebook group and it's of these really nice boxes. So does Federal have a box for each dish that's as nice as the Pyrex ones? Ruth: [00:26:01] I honestly don't know because there just, there hasn't, I mean, there's some boxes out there, especially for those Federal made a lot of snack sets and boxes always survived for the snack sets because they weren't an everyday use type of, I don't know if everybody in the audience is familiar with a snack set. It's kind of like a large, generally oval-ish plate with a little raised and then indented smaller circle where you would put a cup and it was made for party use where you could hold this plate with the cup that was held in place with the little glass lip on the plate with a bit of food, you know, and your tea, and still stand and chat with people and be able to, you know, yeah, lift up your... Yeah there's an adorable pattern that kind of looks like cannabis that's like black, turquoise and pink. I can't remember the exact name of it. A lot of people like that. There's one in the snack sets of Federal one I think that's like a little pastel houses that are cute. I haven't delved into the world of snack sets other than looking at them, because I draw the line at 47 collections. Bex Scott: [00:27:17] Just 47. 48 is too many. 47 is okay though. Ruth: [00:27:20] There has to be a line, right? There has to be. Bex Scott: [00:27:22] Yeah. Ruth: [00:27:23] There's also because Federal did far more promotional items. They made promotional items with images on them that today we would not find socially acceptable. Bex Scott: [00:27:39] Mhm. Mhm. Ruth: [00:27:40] Okay. For certain banks or teams that had images that were derogatory to various, and in particular Indigenous, parts of the population. Some people collect those because they say it, because it's important to acknowledge the mistakes we made in the past. And some people choose to not go there at all. You know, it's a personal, that's a personal choice. But there's, there seems to be quite a bit more of that in Federal than there, you know, I can't, I don't know if I've ever seen any Pyrex that had what we would consider to be an offensive image. Bex Scott: [00:28:25] I'm trying to think maybe some of the coffee mugs. Ruth: [00:28:28] Yeah, true. Some of the sayings. Bex Scott: [00:28:31] Mhm. But nothing out of like the patterned dishes or bowls that I can think of. Ruth: [00:28:37] Yeah. There was a full set of bowls with a black silhouette of an Indigenous person with feathers in their hair that there's a lot of controversy about. Some people, you know, really think it's great. Other people think it's offensive. That's up to the individual to make their choice. For me, luckily that was released in the States. It doesn't show up here, so I don't have to, I don't have to look at it on the shelf and go is this is too offensive to go in the cart? Because it's important to acknowledge, you know, mistakes made in the past. But I don't particularly want to take pictures of it and glorify it in any way. So there's that. There's a lot of, you know, the office culture mugs. You know, what was acceptable to have on a mug in the 70s is often not acceptable today, thank goodness. Bex Scott: [00:29:40] Yes. Ruth: [00:29:41] A lot of, a lot of tourist ware and things like that. And a lot of glassware. There's glass canisters that Federal made that a lot of people misidentify as other companies. They call, the Federal company called them, I was going to say store-and-go, but I don't know if that's quite the right color. They came, they looked very similar to the Atterbury Scroll pattern that, I don't know. Are you familiar with any of this? Bex Scott: [00:30:13] I don't think so. I'm gonna have to look them up because I really like canisters. Ruth: [00:30:17] Yeah. So there were glass canisters with glass lids that had a plastic gasket. Not just all around the lip, but across the bottom as well. They came, Federal released them in oh, I think amber, clear, turquoise, and a kind of aurora borealis finish. I hunted for years to find every single color. They came in a bunch of shapes as well. I think an avocado green maybe is, no, I don't think Federals came in avocado green. Part of the problem is they look very, very similar to another company's gloss. So there's a lot of, and they're, none of them are stamped, but there is catalog showing Federal as hey, you know we make this. Because they made a lot of pressed glass in their history. Bex Scott: [00:31:15] That makes it tricky to identify then. You definitely need to find that catalog to make sure you have the legitimate piece. Ruth: [00:31:23] It's in the album, it's in the albums on the group. But so I think it's by color that you can tell from what company is what company. I just, I'm just trying to think what colors I have in my personal collection, because I tried hard to just find the Federal ones, which are easier to find here in Canada than other places. Bex Scott: [00:31:45] Yeah, that's another thing I'm going to add to my list then to search for in the stores. I'm sure it's not easy to find though. Ruth: [00:31:52] The those those plastic gaskets just didn't hold up like the... Bex Scott: [00:31:56] Yeah. Ruth: [00:31:57] Like the beautiful ground glass stoppers and edges on the Belgium canisters. You know, the bubble top, Belgium canisters that we all like or the Takahashi glass canisters with the ground edges. I have a little, I think that's collection 42. Bex Scott: [00:32:22] I love that. I'm going to go and count my collections now. Ruth: [00:32:26] I'm joking. And then I'm thinking, wait, am I really? Bex Scott: [00:32:31] Like I'm not actually. Ruth: [00:32:35] From Federal I always think, no, I have everything I want and then I find or a friend finds and they go, do you have the 5 inch solid colored bowl in, you know, and they name a color. And I look at my list and I go, dang, I have the other 5 colors. I don't have that one. Yeah. So I now, for Federal, I keep a list of the things that I don't have because it's easier than keeping a list of the things I do have. Bex Scott: [00:33:07] Mhm. That's a smart way to do it. Ruth: [00:33:09] Yeah. Because recently, fairly recently I found a 9 inch dot nesting bowl in turquoise. If it was in the Pyrex world it would almost be called rare. Definitely hard to find. And there's, there hasn't been a lot of them. And that's one that I actually, someone in Alberta had found it and I actually, yeah, coughed up and had to make that one mine. Bex Scott: [00:33:41] Yeah you invested in it. Ruth: [00:33:43] I invested. Yeah. That's the right way up. I really wanted it because I had the 5, 6, 7 and 8 in that color. So it just it had to be mine. But the vast majority of the Federal pieces I have are, I'd say 95% of them are from Canada, and 85% of them I found, I found locally or, you know, friends found locally because I have a lot of friends that collect locally. And what do we do? We find for each other and we trade. Right? Bex Scott: [00:34:19] That's the fun part of it. Making friends and finding things for each other and buying and trading. And that's what makes this whole addiction or hobby or however you want to explain it or justify it, that's what makes it fun. Ruth: [00:34:37] Serotonin is important. Bex Scott: [00:34:39] Yeah. Yeah. Ruth: [00:34:41] Definitely. It's almost more fun to find something that someone else has been looking for. Bex Scott: [00:34:48] Exactly. Yeah. You can score their holy grail. Ruth: [00:34:53] Yeah, yeah. Speaking of holy grails, beside the 9 inch turquoise that I was so happy to add to my collection, I actually found the batter bowl, a dot, red dot batter bowl. The white ones are a little bit more common for Federal, but I found a dot batter bowl at the thrift store. Bex Scott: [00:35:12] Oh wow. Ruth: [00:35:13] Last year or the year before? It was two years ago. Yeah, definitely two years ago, because I happened to be at a whole opposite end of the city than I normally am for an appointment and went, oh man, I have, I'm on my lunch still - wink wink - and I have time to... That's okay. I'm retired now, it doesn't matter. I was rushing back to the, rushing back to work and went, oh man, I'm driving right by this thrift store I never get to. Quickly swung in, raced up and down a few aisles and there it was for 4.99. Bex Scott: [00:35:50] Oh my gosh. Ruth: [00:35:51] And I went, the thrift gods were looking out today. Bex Scott: [00:35:54] The rays of sunshine came down into the store. It was right there. And they were singing. And yeah, I can see it. Ruth: [00:36:03] Angels sing. Bex Scott: [00:36:05] Yeah. Ruth: [00:36:09] That's the feeling when you find something you've been looking for on the thrift store shelf. Bex Scott: [00:36:15] Yeah. You start to float and everything is just perfect. That's exactly how I feel. Ruth: [00:36:21] You hug it to yourself. Bex Scott: [00:36:23] Yeah. Ruth: [00:36:26] Do you have a cart? You put it in the cart, you put your coat over it. Bex Scott: [00:36:29] Yes. Yeah. Nobody else can see that because they will try and steal it. Ruth: [00:36:35] Sadly, yes. Absolutely. And it doesn't matter how badly you have to go to the washroom, you do not leave your cart outside of the washroom with the precious item in it. Bex Scott: [00:36:46] Well, on that cheerful note. I have learned a ton today about Federal Glass, and I think I'm going to have to have you back for another episode to teach me more about Federal and all of these other 47 collections that you have. But thank you so much for giving me all your knowledge today. I know it's just the tip of the iceberg, but I have to make sure that everybody joins that vintage Federal Glass group. We'll put that in the show notes, and then make sure you follow Ruth at Periwinkle Collectibles on Instagram as well. Ruth: [00:37:23] Thanks, Bex. It's been a pleasure. Bex Scott: [00:37:25] Thanks so much for joining me, Ruth. 

可以搜索公号【璐璐的英文小酒馆】或者添加【luluxjg2】咨询课程or加入社群，查看文稿和其他精彩内容哦~Welcome back to Geek Time advanced. How are you doing, Lulu?Hi, Brad. I'm doing fine.So we were talking about EV and gas powered cars. Do you have any interesting questions?Actually, last time you mentioned, apart from gas powered cars, EV, there's a new thing on the horizon which is hydrogen cars就是氢能源车. I was wondering if we can start the conversation by perhaps going a little bit into that?Okay, yeah. Hydrogen powered cars are something that several car manufacturers such as Toyota are developing, and BMW I think is going into a partnership with Toyota and going to develop even more in the future. But the interesting thing is you can create newer hydrogen powered vehicles, but you can also take older gas and diesel engines and convert them with a few different parts to make them into a car that will run on hydrogen power. You have to change like the gas tank, but the engine itself you just add in a new fuel injector, and basically you can have a hydrogen powered car.That would make things a lot handier. Isn't it? People don't necessarily have to buy new cars in the future. They just convert their car or modify their car. Mhm. Yes, especially for people who are really attached to like a classic car or something like that. They don't have to give up that car, they can keep it, they just have to convert it.I see. So hydrogen, I'm assuming when hydrogen is used to power cars, it also doesn't cost or create pollution. That's the whole point, isn't it? There's no carbon dioxide or methane that gas that comes out of the engine. Basically, what happens is now you have the hydrogen and it gets split. It goes into the atmosphere and combines with oxygen and basically just creates water vapors or combined with that. And so it doesn't really have any noxious gases that a gas car would. And the best thing is...How do we refuel it? Basically you just go to a hydrogen station. There's actually a few hydrogen stations in Japan that I've seen. It's not much different from your typical gas station, the way they store it's a little bit different. They don't have like a tank in the ground like they do with the gas, but essentially the same idea, you hook up your car, you just basically put the fuel into the car like you would a gas car. The major difference is it does require high pressures or low temperatures restoring the hydrogen. So it's not as easily usable as gas as we have it today.I see. I because I was gonna ask if everything looks so perfect, then why not hydrogen instead of EV right? But obviously there are certain limitations now. So that cannot be the only reason why we are pushing for electric vehicles. I pretty much I don't know if it's to the same extent, but most of the countries are trying to push EV, right? Yeah, like when you look at EV, most EVs can go several 100 kilometers. There, I think a few of them are getting closer to like 1,000 kilometers on a charge, but the majority of people don't really do more than like a daily 30 kilometer round trip. Right? Yeah, people aren't going that far in their daily work, right? So they don't really need to have a car that can go hundreds of miles.For daily commute, EV is more than enough within cities, but it's just like when you have to drive long distance, EV can be a little bit more difficult.

Worm lizards are strange legless animals that live underground. Turns out they communicate by smell and are able to pass on surprisingly complex messages. There's also a brand new species of these subterranean lizards. Become a Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/herphighlights Merch: https://www.redbubble.com/people/herphighlights/shop Full reference list available here: http://www.herphighlights.podbean.com Main Paper Reference: Martín J, Navarro-Castilla Á, De La Concha A, Cuervo JJ, Barja I, López P. 2024. Heat-altered scent marks of males of a fossorial reptile still allow recognition by females but lose information on male quality. Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology 78:77. DOI: 10.1007/s00265-024-03496-x. Species of the Bi-Week: Ribeiro S, Santos Jr AP, Martins IG, Oliveira ECS, Graboski R, Barbosa Da Silveira T, Benício MHM, Vaz-Silva W. 2024. A new four-pored Amphisbaena Linnaeus, 1758 (Amphisbaenia, Amphisbaenidae) from the north of Espinhaço Mountain Range, Brazil. ZooKeys 1213:1–27. DOI: 10.3897/zookeys.1213.122265. Other Mentioned Papers/Studies: Martín, J., Rodríguez-Ruiz, G., Navarro-Castilla, Á., Barja, I., & López, P. (2024). Blind date: female fossorial amphisbaenians prefer scent marks of large and healthy males. Integrative Zoology. Editing and Music: Intro/outro – Treehouse by Ed Nelson Species Bi-week theme – Michael Timothy Other Music – The Passion HiFi, https://www.thepassionhifi.com Intro visuals – Paul Snelling

Bex Scott welcomes guest Dariya from The Thrifty Fox Shop to talk about her love of Pyrex and how many vintage collections she maintains. Bex met Dariya on Instagram and credits her with getting Bex onto Whatnot. They talk extensively about Pyrex, from their favorite pieces to their greatest finds, but as Dariya has an enthusiasm for a great variety of vintage items, there's more than Pyrex to explore in this episode.  Dariya, like many collectors, got into vintage collecting via her mom. She truly leaned into Pyrex around age sixteen and hasn't stopped since. Pyrex and thrifting for vintage items is a family affair for Dariya too, as both her mom and sister are as avid about collecting as she is. She shares some of her most memorable Pyrex finds with Bex and they discuss their most and least loved patterns as well as which Pyrex dish both their husbands manage to explode during use. Beyond Pyrex, Dariya introduces Bex to her love of crewel embroidery, vintage mushrooms, glass animals, lucite flowers, vintage linens, brass, and many more of her very eclectic collections. Dariya's philosophy is to collect what makes you happy and decorate the same way, so tune in to find out just what pieces bring her the most joy in her home. Resources discussed in this episode:WhatnotPink Butterprint PyrexStarburst PyrexAmethyst Viking swung vaseZodiac 475 casserole dishOld Orchard PyrexCatherine Holm turquoise bowlStrawberry Hill pottery mouseWabasso Flower Power floral sheets“Stranger Things” rainbow sheets@ThriftersDelight on InstagramFika Coffee House in Camrose, Alberta—Contact Dariya | The Thrifty Fox ShopInstagram: @TheThriftyFoxShopPoshmark: @dariyasimsEtsy: The Thrifty Fox ShopContact Rebecca Scott | Pyrex With Bex: Website: PyrexWithBex.comInstagram: @pyrexwithbex—TranscriptBex Scott: [00:00:02] Hey everybody, it's Bex Scott and welcome to the Pyrex with Bex podcast where, you guessed it, I talk about vintage Pyrex, but also all things vintage housewares. I'll take you on my latest thrifting adventures, talk about reselling, chat with other enthusiasts about their collections, and learn about a bunch of really awesome items from the past. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love listening to podcasts so you don't miss a beat. Hey everybody, this is Bex Scott and you are listening to the Pyrex with Bex podcast. And on today's episode, I have my friend and fellow vintage reseller Dariya from the Thrifty Fox Shop. Welcome, Dariya. Dariya: [00:00:43] Hello. Bex Scott: [00:00:44] How's it going? Dariya: [00:00:45] Oh, good. Bex Scott: [00:00:47] Nice. I see you have your awesome Halloween display behind you. Dariya: [00:00:51] I do. We couldn't wait to start decorating for October, so we started in mid-September for decorating Halloween. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:00:59] That's how my family is but with Christmas. Dariya: [00:01:01] Oh, fair. Bex Scott: [00:01:02] My mom starts decorating the day after Halloween for Christmas, so I've kind of-- Dariya: [00:01:05] -- oh, wow-- Bex Scott: [00:01:06] -- got that Christmas bug from her. Dariya: [00:01:08] Yeah. That makes sense. Bex Scott: [00:01:10] Mhm. So I wanted to start off kind of with how we met. So we met on Instagram. I was following you for a while. And then I came across your Instagram story about your Whatnot show. And it was a Christmas show which is one of my favorite things obviously. And I watched your show got some amazing things from you and you helped me get into the Whatnot selling, which I'm very grateful for that. Dariya: [00:01:37] I actually didn't know that. Bex Scott: [00:01:38] You're the first person I found out about Whatnot through. And you made selling look so easy. And I remember a while back in some of the episodes I was talking about how I thought Whatnot was difficult because you have to be, like, on for an entire hour and talking and kind of, I'm a very severe introvert, so doing Whatnot is kind of stress-inducing. But I've loved it so far. Dariya: [00:02:05] Yeah, once you get into it, then you find yourself more comfortable and stuff. Yeah, because I'm also an introvert and I never thought I'd ever do lives in my entire life. But hey, look at us go. Bex Scott: [00:02:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your one year just passed on Whatnot. And I think mine is coming up sometime soon, so. Dariya: [00:02:23] Yeah. You'll have to do a show. Bex Scott: [00:02:24] Yeah. For everybody listening, come find us on Whatnot. We have an awesome group of Canadian sellers. So how did your Pyrex and your vintage collecting begin? Dariya: [00:02:35] With my mom. She's always, yeah, it's always someone in the family that gets you hooked. Yeah. My mom always loved, like, antiques and vintage. And so, you know, growing up around that. And then I kind of got my own style going, which has changed drastically over the last, like, years. When I started collecting, which was probably when I was 16, I started collecting, I've always like collected knickknacks, like ever since I was a little girl. But Pyrex was when around 16 when I started collecting all the Pyrex and I've never stopped. Bex Scott: [00:03:09] It's good. A good collection you have going. Then for all that time, I. Dariya: [00:03:12] Think of all the stuff I left behind at that time when all the prices were good. So many regrets. Bex Scott: [00:03:17] Yeah, that's what a lot of collectors I've talked to say. Like, if they would have known that, they should have just grabbed things when they saw it. Yeah. Dariya: [00:03:26] And the stuff that I started collecting nowadays and just thinking about what I could have left behind back then. Oh, man. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:03:35] So your mom kind of got you into it. Does your mom still collect Pyrex? Dariya: [00:03:40] She does. Yeah, and so does my sister. So all three of us collect Pyrex and other collections we kind of share the same love for. So we're either fighting or finding each other stuff. Bex Scott: [00:03:52] Yeah, I was going to say, when you go thrifting together, how do you decide who gets to keep what? Dariya: [00:03:56] Basically, whoever finds it, gets it. Or else if one of us has something, then we'll, yeah, let whoever has it get the first dibs. But it's a competition sometimes, that's for sure. Bex Scott: [00:04:09] I guess I'm lucky that way that I don't have any family competition. If anybody finds anything, they know to just give it straight to me. And I don't have to fight my mom over anything. Dariya: [00:04:19] Well, and whenever one of us starts a new collection, we all get hooked. So then it's like there's no winning. Bex Scott: [00:04:26] That's awesome. Dariya: [00:04:27] Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:04:27] I guess on the flip side, that would be really fun if you had people in your family who you could go thrifting with and kind of had the same interests as you. Dariya: [00:04:35] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:04:37] Cool. And what have been your best Pyrex finds so far? Dariya: [00:04:42] I think my best one was the two pieces of pink Butterprint at a garage sale and, in Alberta, which you never see pink Butterprint? And it was posted online and I, like, messaged them because it was a bit of a drive and I had like two little kids, so I was like, okay, like I'd love to get these, but would you be able to hold them? Because I don't want to drive there and get there and them not being there. So they held them for me and I paid 60 bucks for two of them, which is high for a garage sale. But like, again, pink Butterprint. Bex Scott: [00:05:13] That's good. Dariya: [00:05:14] Yeah, yeah. So I kept one and then gave one to my sister. Bex Scott: [00:05:18] Lucky sister. Dariya: [00:05:20] I know. Would have been nice if there was three. And then I could have given one to my mom too, but yeah. Bex Scott: [00:05:26] Yeah. Dariya: [00:05:26] No, I think that was, I was trying to, like, wrack my brain and that was definitely one of my best Pyrex scores. Bex Scott: [00:05:33] Yeah. That's really good. Especially at a garage sale. That never happens. Dariya: [00:05:37] And I'm so curious as to how they got the pink Butterprint, because I think it was only for the States and you had to get them through coupons or something? So it's curious to know how they got all the way up to Alberta. Bex Scott: [00:05:50] Interesting. Yeah, I think I found a set of the Butterprint. It was in a Value Village and only one of the bowls was good, but it was still, it was still a good find, right? Dariya: [00:06:03] Yeah, yeah, I'd love to find an orange. The orange Butterprint, but... Bex Scott: [00:06:08] Oh yeah. Yeah. I keep seeing listings through Facebook for them and I'm tempted. Dariya: [00:06:13] But that price tag. Bex Scott: [00:06:15] Yeah like $750, $1000. Dariya: [00:06:18] Yeah. No. Nope. Bex Scott: [00:06:22] Cool. And what would you say is your holy grail piece, if you, you might already have it. But if you don't have it what would it be? Dariya: [00:06:28] I don't actually. I still need that Starburst Pyrex. I was trying to think. Starburst, I kind of have three. Starburst. What's the - Pink Stems. And then this isn't Pyrex, but I really love like, a amethyst. Amethyst, Amethyst, Amethyst I don't know, um, Vikings swung vase. So those are like my three holy grails. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. Do you have a Starburst? Bex Scott: [00:06:54] I don't. Dariya: [00:06:55] I know, like, they're like they seem common enough. But the price tag again is just like, hmm, yeah. Bex Scott: [00:07:02] And you see photos of people who have like ten of them in their collection. Dariya: [00:07:05] Just hand one over to me. Please, please. I did see a Starburst at a antique, at the Antique Mall in Edmonton. Bex Scott: [00:07:13] Oh, yeah. Dariya: [00:07:14] And I think it was like $2,000. So I was like, oh, that was like, look at you from through the glass. Bex Scott: [00:07:19] Yeah. Take a picture. And then just, that's as close as I'm going to get. Dariya: [00:07:22] Pretty much. I was like, I was right beside it, but that's about it. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:07:26] Yeah. And do you want the turquoist? Turquoist? That's not a word. Turquoise. That's my my 14 year old son, he's infected me. He says turquoist. I'm gonna have to tell him now. He's gonna be proud. Dariya: [00:07:36] Yeah. You know, my husband's always, like, deliberately mispronouncing things. And now I call, like, quesadilla a quesadillo. You know, I'm, like, so dumb, so dumb. Bex Scott: [00:07:47] Try this again. Turquoise. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Do you want that one or, I think there's a cream one, right? Dariya: [00:07:53] I'd probably want the turquoise. Yeah. The cream one's nice, but like. And there's a black one too, I think. Bex Scott: [00:07:58] Yes. Yeah. Dariya: [00:08:00] I mean, the black one would be nice for a Halloween display. Bex Scott: [00:08:02] It would. Yeah. Dariya: [00:08:04] But I would definitely take the turquoise one. Bex Scott: [00:08:06] Me too. Dariya: [00:08:07] Mhm. Just need to thrift one. Bex Scott: [00:08:09] Oh that would be great. Dariya: [00:08:11] Right? Bex Scott: [00:08:11] That would be a start the car moment. I'd push everybody away in the aisles. Give it to me. Dariya: [00:08:16] Yeah. I must go pay for this. Bex Scott: [00:08:18] Yeah. And do you have any favorite patterns outside of your holy grail? Dariya: [00:08:27] I have to say, I mean, I love a lot of the patterns, but my favorite one is the Zodiac one, which is right there. You can see behind me. Yeah. The Zodiac 475 casserole dish. I didn't even know I wanted it, and then my husband surprised me with it for Christmas one year. And it's like, hands down, the best Christmas present ever. Bex Scott: [00:08:48] No kidding. Dariya: [00:08:49] I kind of forgot that there was a Zodiac Pyrex available, so when I opened it up for Christmas, I was so excited. And yeah, it's definitely my favorite. Favorite Christmas gift ever. Bex Scott: [00:08:58] That's a good gift from your husband. He's great at gift giving. Dariya: [00:09:02] Yeah, he did pretty good. They need to make more of the Zodiac line. I'm, too bad that they didn't, but I can see how the gold is kind of hard and. Mhm. Bex Scott: [00:09:11] Yeah. Dariya: [00:09:12] You need that one. Bex Scott: [00:09:13] Are there any patterns that you really dislike? Dariya: [00:09:16] I mean I'm not a big fan of the Woodland Pyrex. I know a lot of people like that. I don't mind the lighter brown one, but the dark brown one is like mmm. And then I'm trying to think, there's another brown one I'm not a big fan of. Bex Scott: [00:09:29] The Old Orchard one? Dariya: [00:09:30] Yeah. Yeah. The Old Orchard one. Yeah. Other than that I'm like, I don't mind any of the other Pyrex, but the Old Orchard one just grinds my gears. Bex Scott: [00:09:40] Yeah. It's weird. Dariya: [00:09:42] Yeah. And I know some people like to exclusively collect that one, but I'm like, no. Bex Scott: [00:09:47] It must have been, I don't know, it would be interesting to get in the mind of whoever designed that one because-- Dariya: [00:09:54] Right? Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:09:55] Maybe the colors on its own without the design on top would be kind of okay? Dariya: [00:10:01] But yeah. Yeah, it's that design. I wouldn't mind it so much without the design. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bex Scott: [00:10:09] And do you use your Pyrex is a big question for collectors. Dariya: [00:10:12] I'm like 50/50. I use, I have Pyrex, my Pyrex cupboard of items that I use and then my display Pyrex, which is like usually the harder to find or harder to replace pieces I display only. And I don't let my husband or children touch. But yeah, you got like those workhorses people call them. Yeah, I use those and I use my Autumn Harvest set of mixing bowls quite frequently. But yeah. So I'm like 50/50 split. Bex Scott: [00:10:43] That's how I am as well. I have my pink cabinet that I've actually started to take pieces of it out to let my son, he made banana bread with it yesterday. Dariya: [00:10:56] Oh, nice. Bex Scott: [00:10:57] He was very gentle, which is good. Dariya: [00:10:58] Yeah. Yeah. I've had a few Pyrex explode in the oven, so I'm like, definitely not my, can't put my favorite pieces in the oven. Yeah. Yeah. But I could display with like cookies or something in them. Bex Scott: [00:11:14] Mhm. I brought home a Bertha, I can't remember which one it was, but my husband used it on the stove top. Dariya: [00:11:23] Oh no. Bex Scott: [00:11:23] And I told him to take a video of himself cooking. I didn't know he was going to use it on the stove top. It was going to be like a cooking kind of Pyrex thing. Yeah. And it blew up in the video, and he was doing some kind of roast with wine. And it, in the video, I have to find it and put it on my Instagram. Dariya: [00:11:41] You will. Bex Scott: [00:11:42] I know I've talked about it before, but red wine exploded everywhere, all over the ceiling, all over the walls. And he called me and he's like, I did something bad. Dariya: [00:11:53] Very bad. It was the Big Bertha for me too, but in the oven that exploded. So there must be something with those big Bertha's. Bex Scott: [00:12:03] Yeah, because they're just too big. Dariya: [00:12:05] Yeah, and it was, like, pristine condition, too. And, like, I couldn't find any flaw in it, so there must have been just like, some kind of, like, small little hairline crack somewhere or something that I just couldn't see. And yeah. So that's wild that it, but worse for you. Because everywhere, like, at least it was contained in the oven for us. Bex Scott: [00:12:25] Luckily he had it all cleaned up by the time I got home. And then I was able to find another one like a week later. Dariya: [00:12:32] Oh thank goodness. Because yeah, I'd be like, I'm not cleaning that up. That was on you. Bex Scott: [00:12:35] No, no. That's like a hazmat level. Bring somebody in. Clean every surface. Wine everywhere. Dariya: [00:12:42] Yeah. Yeah, totally. Oh my goodness. Bex Scott: [00:12:46] What else do you love to collect? I know on your Instagram you have the best taste and your photos are amazing. I always like creeping to see what you have new for me to buy. Dariya: [00:12:58] I start a new collection somewhere or something. I wrote, I wrote down some of my collections because I was like, I'm going to forget. And even this isn't even all that I collected. There's so much more. But I think, oh, here we go. So I have, I put too much first of all, and then I collect, vintage crewel embroideries, anything like vintage mushroom, like Merry Mushroom, any kind of any groovy mushroom thing. Vintage glass, like swung vases and like glass animals I've kind of starting to get into. Vintage pottery, Lucite flowers, linens, vintage Halloween and Christmas. Vintage brass. Lefton pink poodle chef. And I could go on and on, but like, that's like the main ones. Bex Scott: [00:13:45] Yeah. Dariya: [00:13:45] But yeah, like, there's so many. Like any MCM groovy thing I can get my hands on, which is so hard to find where I am. Bex Scott: [00:13:53] Yeah. No kidding. Especially nice mushroom stuff. I have the worst luck finding it, and whenever I do, it's very overpriced. Or it's broken. Dariya: [00:14:06] Yeah, yeah, I usually I, yeah, rarely do I find something in the wild anymore. I usually have to buy something for my mushroom collection. Yeah. Oh. Bex Scott: [00:14:16] And you, what's the word, you crewel. Is that how you say it, you crewel? Dariya: [00:14:20] Crewel? Yeah, I know my husband always jokes that I'm so cruel to my crewel. I'm like, funny dad joke. Bex Scott: [00:14:29] And how long have you been doing that for? Dariya: [00:14:32] I'm trying to. I think I want to say when the pandemic started is when I really started taking it up. And I bought a few kits online to try, and then, yeah, I was just hooked. So that would have been, what, like five years? Six years? No, four years. Four years ish. So four years I've been doing it and yeah, I, I love it. And then I got my mom into it and my sister tried, but she doesn't have the patience for it. So I just make crewels for her. She buys me kits and then I do them up for her. But it's nice because I have like followers that like, keep an eye out for crewel kits for me and I'll, they'll mail them to me and it's awesome. Bex Scott: [00:15:14] That's fun. Yeah. It's like your own little personal shoppers. Dariya: [00:15:18] Yeah. They're like, I found this and I thought of you immediately. I was like, perfect. I will take it. Thank you. Bex Scott: [00:15:26] I started a crewel last year and I still haven't finished it. Dariya: [00:15:32] I know it's, sometimes I like don't pick it up for a couple days and then I'm like, I need to get back into it. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:15:39] Okay. And what would you say is your all time favorite piece of vintage that you've thrifted? Dariya: [00:15:44] A Catherine Holm like Turquoise Bowl, and it's probably like the nine inch one for $1. It was like years ago, probably like seven years ago, but it was like my best find ever. And it was sitting in the thrift store window. It was like a small town thrift store, and I could see it from the outside. And I was walking in with my sister in law, and I basically pushed back past her, and I was like, I gotta go, I gotta go, and I grabbed it and yeah, it was a dollar. Bex Scott: [00:16:13] Oh, wow. Dariya: [00:16:14] I've never, ever thrifted another Catherine Holm or found one like for that price in the wild before. It was crazy. Bex Scott: [00:16:21] And did you keep that? Dariya: [00:16:21] And in amazing shape. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's upstairs in my room. I'm like, I don't think I could ever part with it just because it was such a good deal. Bex Scott: [00:16:27] No kidding. Dariya: [00:16:28] Yeah, Bex Scott: [00:16:29] I have never. I don't have any Catherine Holm because I'm too scared to start that collection because it's so expensive. Dariya: [00:16:36] I guess I should say I do have a Catherine Holm collection too, and it is expensive, but I've, like I found. Well, I guess this isn't a thrift find, but it kind of is, it was on Etsy and from a shop in France. I got the green shaker canister sets from Catherine Holm for $20. Bex Scott: [00:16:57] Wow. Dariya: [00:16:57] Yeah. And the shipping for here was only $30, so it was like 50 bucks for the set. And usually those are like a couple hundred at least. And it was a brand new in the box, too. They had never been used. So. Bex Scott: [00:17:08] Do you think they just didn't know what it was? Dariya: [00:17:11] I think so because most of their stuff in their shop was like teacups and like plates and like that kind of stuff. So this was kind of like something wholly different for them. And it was labeled like enamel shaker set. Bex Scott: [00:17:23] Oh, yeah. Dariya: [00:17:24] Or spice set. Yeah. So I was like, oh, wow. And it had been listed for months too. And I just must have searched the right thing. And it came up and I was like, okay, add to cart. And yeah, they were in pristine condition when they arrived. And so that's another Catherine Holm score I had. Bex Scott: [00:17:40] That's amazing. Dariya: [00:17:41] Apparently I get some scores with the Catherine Holm. Bex Scott: [00:17:43] I need your luck. That'd be great. Yeah. I think back to how many things I've sold over the years that I probably didn't know what they were, and somebody got an amazing deal. Dariya: [00:17:54] Right? Yeah, I think about that too, especially in the early days of reselling, like, oh. Bex Scott: [00:18:01] Why are 20 people contacting me all at once for this bowl? Oh. That was a mistake. Dariya: [00:18:07] Yeah. But like, I'm not going to be one of those people who, like, say, oh, I'm going to raise the price. Like, I'll sell it for what I listed it for because that's my loss that I didn't research enough. But I hate it when some people say, yeah, it's available, you can come pick it up and then like an hour later, they're like, oh, apparently I can get more for it. So now I'm starting a bidding war and I'm like, oh no. Bex Scott: [00:18:27] That's so shifty. Dariya: [00:18:29] Yeah, it is. Just is. You got to honor that price you give because that's your mistake. Bex Scott: [00:18:34] Yeah, yeah. There's somebody that did that around my area with some mid-century lamps. And they were the really nice tall ones with, like, the atomic looking. Dariya: [00:18:44] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:18:45] What's it called lamp pole? Yeah, but that's not. It's not a... yeah. Yeah and I wanted to buy them, and then they didn't get back to me, and they were relisted for like, 100 something dollars instead of 20. So. Dariya: [00:19:02] Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's so annoying. Marketplace sucks for that. Bex Scott: [00:19:07] It does. It's a fun hunt still, though. Dariya: [00:19:10] So it is. Yeah. Yeah. There's still gems to be found. Bex Scott: [00:19:12] Yeah. What would you say you know the most about in all of your collecting journey? Dariya: [00:19:21] Probably Pyrex, because it's the oldest collection I have. And then crewel embroidery and vintage linens would be like second. But I'm slowly learning more and more about vintage glass and how many different, like, vintage glass. Like whether it's Scandinavian or American glass. I'm still slowly learning more about that, which is kind of my goal, because there's just so much to learn about and know about. Same with, like, pottery. Vintage pottery. Bex Scott: [00:19:52] Oh, yeah. Dariya: [00:19:52] Canadian pottery. There's some really great pottery pieces out there, so I'm kind of starting to learn more. Watch some, like Whatnot pottery shows and like, learn more about the designers and stuff. So that's like kind of my goal to learn more about vintage pottery and glass. Bex Scott: [00:20:10] That's something that I've wanted to learn about as well, because I see so much pottery when I go thrifting. And then I look at the bottom and there's some artist signature, and then I get overwhelmed and yeah, I can't Google Lens it, so I give up. Dariya: [00:20:24] Yeah, yeah. Same. So I'm like I try and go with my gut. Sometimes my gut like is wrong and I leave something behind. And then I'm like, I shouldn't have left that. But yeah, but yeah, if it's nice and cute I'll still buy it. Just got to imagine if it's going to stay in my house for a while or if it's going to go. Bex Scott: [00:20:41] Yeah. Dariya: [00:20:42] Yeah. But Strawberry Hill Pottery I'm really liking. Bex Scott: [00:20:46] Oh yeah I think I've seen that. Dariya: [00:20:47] Their designs are gorgeous. Yeah, I got a mouse off of Marketplace. Cute. And then I found a bluebird on Whatnot, and it was, like, only $10 on Whatnot, so I was like, oh, I'll take that. Bex Scott: [00:21:01] Yeah, I'll have to look that up. Bluebirds, all the little, the Lefton and the Norcrest bluebirds. Dariya: [00:21:09] Yeah. You'd like this one because it's really pretty and it's kind of got that Bluebird vibe. Bex Scott: [00:21:15] Nice. And you mentioned vintage linens. I love vintage linens as well. Dariya: [00:21:20] I know I bought some many a linen from you. Bex Scott: [00:21:26] Oh, it's always exciting when you find the really brightly colored, like, great condition ones. I see so many that are faded or you think they're good, and then you start opening them and there's weird stains and holes, and... Dariya: [00:21:38] It's because they always have them in their garages. I go to a garage sale and they've got the pretty Wabasso sheets hung over their like, garage furniture, and I'm just like, I'll buy that. Like, I really like that. And I'll say like, oh, I use that on my bed right now. And they're like, why? I'm like, yeah, that's it's cute. Bex Scott: [00:21:55] Yeah, I'll buy your painting dropcloth that's on your garage floor. Dariya: [00:22:00] Exactly. Like how dare you? They're just looking at me like I'm crazy. Yeah. I have so many linens. Bex Scott: [00:22:09] And do they have specific pattern names? Because I don't know a lot about them. But are there patterns that are more sought after or...? Dariya: [00:22:17] Usually like the brand. Like, I know there are pattern names, but I can't remember off the top of my head, but like Wabasso like with the groovy floral daisies and stuff like that. And they come in different color schemes and in the rainbow. I can't remember the brand, but the rainbow, 80s rainbow sheets, they got really famous after Stranger Things. Bex Scott: [00:22:37] Right! Yeah. Dariya: [00:22:37] Yeah. So those are always like pretty sought after and higher end items. But yeah, I always just, anything groovy-ish, floral, like a rainbow, I always grab and my closet is overflowing with linens. But I use them and they're great. Honestly, they're great sheets. Bex Scott: [00:22:58] Mhm. I remember finding a set at the Salvation Army and I took them up to the till and the lady was like, why would you want to buy these? I remember these from when I was a teenager and they're so ugly. I was like, well thanks. Dariya: [00:23:11] Yeah. But not everyone thinks they're ugly because people are still buying them. Bex Scott: [00:23:15] Yeah, I'm going to use these and I'm going to love them. Dariya: [00:23:17] Yes. Give them a life. And I like how people upcycle with them, too, even if they're, you know, they may not be perfect to use anymore on the bed, but like, they can upcycle and make bags out of them and stuff, so it's great. Bex Scott: [00:23:29] Yeah. Or the, I asked my mom if she could take an old vintage towel and make, like, shorts or a hoodie for me, I love that. Dariya: [00:23:39] I bought a vintage towel shirt from someone in Calgary and it's so awesome. Like, and it's so cute and comfy in the summertime too. And yeah, I've even seen, like, bucket hats. Bex Scott: [00:23:50] Oh, that would be nice too. Dariya: [00:23:52] And there's someone on Instagram, I think it was Thrifters Delight on Instagram who took towel scraps and glued them to her vans. So then they looked like towel shoes. Bex Scott: [00:24:03] That's awesome. Dariya: [00:24:03] They're, and it was like, I'm not making it sound great, but it's like amazing looking. Like, you'll have to look it up too. I want to try that someday. Bex Scott: [00:24:12] Yeah. I saw somebody on Instagram who took old, like, Disney duvets and made them into little jackets. Dariya: [00:24:19] Yeah, like little puffer jackets and stuff. They're like $350. I need to be talented enough to sew myself, but I am not. Home Ec was not my strong point. Bex Scott: [00:24:31] Neither. No. Oh, yeah. I remember doing Home Ec with my friend and her sewing machine caught on fire, and I think that was the end of it for me. I was like, nope, I'm not sewing. Dariya: [00:24:41] Yeah, yeah. No, I would not either. Well, that was with me and IE class like first day teacher left me with the bandsaw and I nearly sliced my finger off and I had to go to the hospital and get stitches. Bex Scott: [00:24:53] Oh that's scary. Dariya: [00:24:54] I never went back into that class again. I was exempt. Bex Scott: [00:25:00] Almost lost a limb. Exempt. Dariya: [00:25:02] Yeah, yeah. They're like, she's not allowed in there. Bex Scott: [00:25:05] Yeah. Oh, and do you decorate your house with your vintage finds? Dariya: [00:25:12] Oh, yes. My husband built me a bunch of, like, floating shelves for the living room. So I have, like, six shelves, and they're honestly, they're, like, filled to the brim, but they look good. Bex Scott: [00:25:22] That's amazing. Dariya: [00:25:23] And, yeah, like, all my walls, I have, like, a mushroom gallery wall and, yeah, everywhere and anywhere I can get a little collection in and it's kind of fun too, because while I buy finished crewels, I also do a lot of the kits up myself, so I'm slowly adding to my wall each year. So it's like kind of like I can be proud of the decor because it's kind of something I'm doing on my own. So yeah. Bex Scott: [00:25:49] That's awesome. Dariya: [00:25:50] Yeah, it changes every year. Bex Scott: [00:25:52] Yeah. And then you can see the progress you've made, especially with the crewels. What it started off with and then... Dariya: [00:25:57] Yeah, I was like, oh I can't believe I did that at the beginning. Oh yeah. Bex Scott: [00:26:05] And how have you found reselling so far? I know that you've been reselling for quite a while, right? Dariya: [00:26:12] Yeah. When my first son was born, I kind of started not too long after he was born, I want to say, yeah, a few months. I just, like, I've always, like, loved buying vintage and then I kind of caught the bug to do a bit of reselling. And since I wasn't working anymore, it was kind of my way of like, earning my own money because, I mean, it was like, obviously my husband's money is my money too. But I wanted like, my own little squirrel nest for fun money and stuff like that. So that's kind of how I started. And I've just, yeah, I've really enjoyed doing it. It's been pretty good. I mean, it always has, I notice, like, it slows down and then it gets busy again. And, but that's kind of how I roll too, because I just list and post when I have the time. So, yeah, Christmas time is always nice and busy. Bex Scott: [00:27:04] Yeah. And it's fun finding all the little gifts you think people would like to buy in the Christmas decor. Dariya: [00:27:10] Yeah, yeah. I've had a couple times where I don't, I don't know if I pronounce this right, but Aritzia? Or is that, did I say that right? The clothing brand? Well, they bought some brass pieces from me, so. Bex Scott: [00:27:24] Oh, really? Dariya: [00:27:24] So I ship it to them. So that was fun. Bex Scott: [00:27:26] That's really cool. Dariya: [00:27:27] Yeah. I've always wanted, like, a movie set or something to buy something for me. So I was like, I'll take this. Bex Scott: [00:27:31] That's awesome. Dariya: [00:27:33] Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:27:34] I had a movie set buy an ice bucket from me once. Dariya: [00:27:37] Ooh that's exciting. Bex Scott: [00:27:38] And I can't remember what show it went into. It was a Netflix show, but that was the only thing that went somewhere else. Dariya: [00:27:45] Still so exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:27:50] Nice. And where can people find you to buy your items? Dariya: [00:27:55] Instagram. Etsy though I'm kind of solely, just I think I'm going to slowly be closing up on Etsy soon and focusing on other areas. I started on eBay and then Whatnot, of course, and Knickknacks as well. Starting kind of there. It's a lot. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:28:14] Yeah. I signed up to sell on knickknacks, and I haven't done anything with it yet. Dariya: [00:28:19] Yeah, I've done a couple shows. It's great, but it's just, yeah, one more thing for me to try and balance. So, I mean, once all the kids are in school and stuff, I can focus a bit more on online. But, yeah and then I do a few markets. I co-host a vintage market a couple times a year at Fika Coffee House in Camrose. We have like a backyard market. So yeah, you should come do it sometime. Bex Scott: [00:28:42] Yeah, I would love to. Dariya: [00:28:42] We have one this Saturday, so that's our last one of the year. And then I do an occasional market in Edmonton as well, but I'm mostly online for now. Just works perfectly for my schedule. Bex Scott: [00:28:54] Yeah. Yeah. Online is great. I, usually I started with Facebook Marketplace and then went to Whatnot and Poshmark and I used to sell a ton on Poshmark and I've kind of just let it die off. But I've gotten a few sales lately that were just out of the blue. Maybe I should go back on there. Dariya: [00:29:17] I know, yeah, like I get a random sale or two on Poshmark, but I'm like not too focused on it anymore, but it's kind of where I put like my last chance items, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm enjoying eBay, actually. I don't know why it took me so long to try it out, but yeah, I had a vintage toy collection on consignment. So I was like, well, I'll try eBay because that kind of seems like the place to do it. Bex Scott: [00:29:41] It's good for toys. Dariya: [00:29:42] And it's been, yeah, it's been good, so I'm liking it. Bex Scott: [00:29:45] I might have to pick your brain about eBay, because I've always been too scared to try it out. Dariya: [00:29:49] Yeah. Me too for some reason, I don't know why. And it's actually really easy. So. And yeah, so I think I'm going to start moving my Etsy listings over to eBay and close out my Etsy shop. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:30:01] So is your handle the same across all platforms? Thrifty Fox Shop? Dariya: [00:30:06] Yeah. Yeah. Bex Scott: [00:30:07] Perfect. So everybody can find you on all of those. Dariya: [00:30:10] Yes, exactly. Make it easy. Bex Scott: [00:30:14] And do you have any closing remarks or tips or tricks for people who want to get into vintage collecting or reselling? Dariya: [00:30:24] For reselling I say like, focus on the things that you're passionate about, because again, when you're reselling, you can tell whether you're passionate about something or if it's just something that you just picked up to sell, and it makes a difference. And because I always, I'm very picky about what I buy to resell, because I have to like it myself in order to resell it, so I'm very picky that way. But then it kind of like makes you form your shop personality, right? So you're known for selling this or, you know, mid-century modern items or kitschy items or, and you don't have to stay within those parameters, but like, that's like the main focus. And I think that helps a lot too, in gaining followers. Bex Scott: [00:31:08] Yeah I agree. Dariya: [00:31:10] Yeah. And for collecting I, honestly just collect what you love. Like some people say that they want to stay in a certain like type, like boho or, you know, and I'm like, I'm all over the place. I'm mid-century modern, I'm kitschy, I'm boho. I'm like all kinds of different. And so it's just like, collect what you love, decorate how you love to decorate. Like, I always get like, oh, but like, what about the resale value of your house? And I'm like, I don't care. Bex Scott: [00:31:38] Yeah, this is what I love. I'm going to do it. Dariya: [00:31:41] Yeah. This is what makes me happy and I'm going to paint my house a certain color to match my vintage decor. And it's, yeah, that's, I don't know why people have to live in a box and not decorate or anything. Just. Bex Scott: [00:31:53] Yeah, exactly. Dariya: [00:31:54] Decorate how you want, buy what you want. You'll be happy for it. Bex Scott: [00:31:59] I agree with all of those points. Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. And everybody make sure you go find Dariya on all of the platforms she mentioned at the Thrifty Fox Shop. Dariya: [00:32:15] Awesome. And I'll see you on Whatnot again. Bex Scott: [00:32:17] Yes. Sounds good. Dariya: [00:32:19] This Sunday actually. Bex Scott: [00:32:20] Yeah. It's coming up fast. Dariya: [00:32:21] Yeah. Got to get prepared. 

可以搜索公号【璐璐的英文小酒馆】或者添加【luluxjg2】咨询课程or加入社群，查看文稿和其他精彩内容哦~AI developmentAdvanced Intelligence· Reason or use strategies that help to make judgements· Plan, learn, use common sense(some humans can't), communicate in natural language· Combine these to complete a goal Current Ai can't do hands (showing inability to truly reason)· Hands are a small part of the body· Often not in focus on pictures · Covered up or blurry because of motion AI and Art· AI created art (using Midjourney) entered into a competition and won.· Books (such as Alice and Sparkle) have used AI artwork. (stealing others artwork to create new artwork.)· Sora videos have issues. someone's arm becoming a blanket. A hand randomly appeared on a bed.ChatGPT can be used to do more· Answer test questions better than an average test taker(depending on the test)· Write computer programs or stories· However, it can hallucinate (give nonsensical answers that sound correct) Welcome back to Geek Time advanced. This is Brad. How are you doing Lulu?Hi Brad. How are you going getting along with your AI boyfriends?Well. I'm moving on to new relationships very quickly and I'm developing multiple storylines. I think that is fun. So I'm assuming we're gonna talk more about AI.Yeah, now one thing that's very interesting if you pay attention to like any pictures or videos created by AI.Mhm.By ChatGPT or any of those.Midjourney.Yeah, you'll see that they can't really do things like hands. Oh. Yes. I've noticed就是Midjourney. 那个AI绘画它是画不清楚手. Why is that?Either it's like six fingers or some fingers are really long, bendy, they just don't look realistic. This is a little weird, why, when they can do perfect faces?Like when you look at a face, a face typically has a particular structure and it doesn't really matter which way you turn. Your face is... it's things are always gonna be in the same spot. But when you look at someone's hand, right? They can put it into a fist. They can extend their fingers. Some fingers can be curved, some fingers can be straight. It's all kind of like all these different configurations of a hand can be shown in pictures. And so AI gets confused about what exactly is a hand. And so it has all these different pictures to kind of draw from. So it kind of like combines all of those together and creates this kind of like weird looking thing. Yeah. It's very interesting that you said that, because AI cannot really conceptualize what hands look like in a three dimensional space. Does that mean that although AI can create like really beautiful artwork, it is mostly still copying to some extent, it is not really, truly reasoning?Right, AI and narrow AI doesn't really have a way to contextualize things. It just takes data and rearranges it. It doesn't really know what the data is. It just sees what people create and tries to create something very similar to that based on the constraints given to it. Emm. Does this mean AI the current narrow AI they're just not really that intelligent, despite being called AI, artificial intelligence?

You (or someone you love) might struggle with the lasting effects of trauma. This could include physical symptoms as well as anxiety, or unhealthy relationship patterns. Together, we'll explore many of the barriers that keep us stuck in pain and discover practical steps toward healing and renewal. This will be the first of several MHM's designed to equip you with tools and wisdom to foster healing not only in your own life but also in the lives of those around you.

Marcus Höfl, a fellow German Sports entrepreneur, for nearly three decades with his own agency MHM, representing German Icon Franz Beckenbauer and several other top sports stars.  Great stories from his time Franz Beckenbauer to many other interesting projects and lessons learned as a sports entrepreneur.   Key Highlights Growing up in Herzogenaurach, the town of Adidas and Puma – great stories how this little Bavarian town operated under those two powerful brands and owners Influenced by his father who was in PR in Adidas and Mum working in sports retail - and looking up to Robert Schwan (at that time Franz Beckenbauer's manager)  First client – Erdinger Weissbier – sponsorship of a second division club and continuing building relationship with Robert Schwan In 2002, Robert passed away – Beckenbauer now on his own – FIFA World Cup 2006 just four years away – opportunity to become the successor of Schwan Franz picked Marcus as the successor (still in his twenties) and he moved to Kitzbuehl to be closer to Beckenbauer Dream to set up a business in New York with a partner, didn't work, closed down Business partnership with Franz Beckenbauer Initially just coordinating everything for Franz – especially leading up to the World Cup in Germany (Beckenbauer was the Chairman of the Organizing Committee) Buying the rights to Franz Beckenbauer's image from Robert Schwan's widow – story behind it Franz Beckenbauer stories Visiting 31 countries who qualified for the World Cup – cris crossing the world Complimenting each other, good cop/bad cop Grew large commercial revenue around Franz Beckenbauer's image – 8 different commercial partners at the peak Franz' strength, his patience, treated everyone the same Also motivating him in his older days Red Bull – Mateschitz and Beckenbauer – Red Bull entering Football Red Bull buying Salzburg as first team, MLS team in New York team, etc Joined board of Major League Soccer (MLS), build relationships with other owners Comparing US sports vs European football structures FC Augsburg – buying a piece of the team and plans to shape the team's image – sold to David Blitzer Working with other athletes and the challenges scaling it Camp Beckenbauer – from Kitzbuehl to Shanghai , set up an office in Shanghai for a few years, lessons learned Maria Höfl-Riesch – German top Skier – from client to wife Investments – focus on fan engagement, digital, data, performance Partnering with Sports Accelerator leAD (Legacy of Adi Dassler) – fill circle to his youth   About Marcus Höfl is a founder, investor and expert in the international sports industry. Grown up in Herzogenaurach (Germany) - the hometown of Adidas and Puma - he has always been active in the football industry and shaped the business in various roles and positions on a global scale. From 2003 to 2006, Marcus was closely involved in the strategy development, planning and implementation of the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany. From 2003 on, Marcus exclusively represented Franz Beckenbauer in all commercial matters, as he owned the football icon's global personality rights. As Head of Global Soccer since 2006, he has developed Red Bull's strategy and commitment to soccer. Thereby he also acted as Member of the Board of Governors of Major League Soccer (MLS) in North America. Marcus Höfl was also a member of the Advisory Board of DFL Sports Enterprises from 2009 – the organization responsible for the national and international licensing, sponsorship and sale of Bundesliga media rights. Moreover, Marcus was a co-owner and shareholder of the German Bundesliga club FC Augsburg from 2016 to 2021 and was thereby a Member of the club's Board of Directors. He also mediates, develops and leads international sponsorship, consulting and implementation projects for global companies such as Mondelez (sponsorship with the Bundesliga/DFL since 2021), Lenovo (sponsorship with Ferrari and Ducati 2018 & 2019) or Hermes (sponsorship with Bundesliga/DFL 2012 -2017) and further leading clubs and associations from the sports sector such as FC Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Hertha BSC Berlin and the Bundesliga/DFL. Marcus Höfl also managed the football World and European Champion Stefan Reuter and the German soccer player of the year 1996, Matthias Sammer as well as the he multiple Olympic Champion in swimming, Franziska van Almsick, the tennis legend Boris Becker, the former alpine skier and three-time Olympic champion Maria Höfl-Riesch (since 2009), TV presenter Andrea Kaiser (since 2012), former world class -Biathlete Simon Schempp (since 2010) and the eight-time world rally champion Sébastien Ogier (since 2015). Since 2021 he has also represented the basketball professional, NBA player and captain of the German National Basketball team, Dennis Schröder as a manager, primarily in marketing and communication issues worldwide.   Follow us on our social sites for the latest updates Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sportsentrepreneurs/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marcusluerpodcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sports-entrepreneurs Website: https://marcusluer.com Podcast: https://marcusluer.com/podcast To get in touch, please email us at podcast@marcusluer.com Feel Good by MusicbyAden https://soundcloud.com/musicbyaden Creative Commons — Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported — CC BY-SA 3.0 Free Download / Stream: https://bit.ly/_feel-good Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/bvgIqqRStcQ  

Today's guest wants to live forever. He's a longevity expert, biohacker, podcaster, and he's into rejuvenating the body both physically and mentally. Chris Burres, welcome to the Better Call Daddy show. Chris shares his fascinating journey into the world of longevity, biohacking, and the science behind living a longer, healthier life. From creating care packages for Joe Rogan to discussing the most significant scientific hindrances to extended life, Chris dives deep into the realm of health and wellness. He talks about the importance of stem cells, the groundbreaking research on ESS 60, and the potential for humans to live much longer than we currently do. Chris also opens up about his personal experiences, including his SEO podcast, the launch of his new podcast "Live Beyond the Norms," and his book "Live Longer and Better." He discusses the importance of diet, sleep, exercise, and medical screenings, sharing insights from his interviews with top experts in the field of longevity. This episode is a treasure trove of information for anyone interested in living a healthier, longer life. Whether you're a biohacker, a health enthusiast, or just curious about the future of longevity, Chris Burres provides valuable insights and practical advice. (00:00) Reena Friedman Watts welcomes Wayne Friedman to the better call daddy show (01:55) There's a company called ways to that do stem cell research (03:40) ESS 60 molecule responsible for longest longevity experimental result on mammals (05:22) Peter H. Diamandis recently wrote a book with Tony Robbins called Life Force (06:01) Where our stem cells come from shrinks with age, right (12:00) What did you learn from doing the SEO podcast and putting yourself out there (13:13) Ess 60 is the molecule responsible for single longest longevity experimental result on mammals (16:14) Medical community is getting better at extending our lives faster than we're aging (21:37) So I would say I should know because then whatever the things that need to be done (22:15) Living a healthy lifestyle is the number one thing you can do to avoid ALS (24:22) One of the things I really like about intermittent fasting is it works for any diet (30:01) You have lots of conversations with your kids about success, parenting (35:21) My son plays soccer. I played for 25 years, got to semi professional (40:16) A parent confronts his child about sleeping on a fluffy carpet. And he's like, I don't think CPS would like that (41:31) Did you ever give your parents pushback? Yes. What comes up there? Yeah, I did. In high school, I used to go (46:41) You want to talk about craziness with your subconscious. Like, how do they do that across a crowded dance floor bar (47:11) Patrick's mission is to get his SRTT training to as many people as possible (48:37) How long do you intend on living and how long can humans live (53:21) You could ask your dad what would he have done different raising you (56:29) Where has your dad found the most happiness? Mhm. I haven't really asked him that 01:02:30 ">The podcast is called Live beyond the Norms. So it's live beyond the norms (01:04:57) You've interviewed some of the biggest names in longevity and biohacking (01:05:55) Chris Burres says he wants to live forever but wants to be healthy Connect with Chris Burres: - Website: myvitalc.com If you liked this episode check out my episode with Paul Hutchinson from Sound of Freedom https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-call-daddy/id1525296416?i=1000642047299   Connect with Reena: - Website: bettercalldaddy.com - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/reenafriedmanwatts - Twitter: @reenareena - Instagram: @reenafriedmanwatts - Instagram Podcast: @bettercalldaddypodcast We love hearing your feedback. Leave us a review, share your thoughts, and spread the word about this enriching episode. Share it with someone who appreciates the wisdom of longevity and the importance of living a healthier life. Show notes created by https://headliner.app  

公号【璐璐的英文小酒馆】或者添加【luluxjg2】咨询课程or加入社群，查看文稿和其他精彩内容哦~Hi, everyone. And welcome back to Geek Time. 欢迎回来【极客时间】. Hi, Brad. Hey, lulu, how's it going? Yeah. Yean. It's going all right. And can I propose a topic today? All right, what do you think? You know, we talked about cults before, right? 我们之前谈过邪教这个话题.Mhm.I would like for us to talk about one of probably the more notorious, I don't wanna say well-known, I just wanna say infamous modern day cults there is in the US, and it's favored by a lot of Hollywood stars. Ah. You're talking about Scientology.Yeah, okay. Before we get into this topic Scientology这个山达基教。I'm pretty sure some of you have read things about this. Before we start, I just want to say it very categorically. First of all, this is tagged, this is categorized as a cult in China and in many other countries. And we're not here to spread any messages, it's really more, think of it as a warning, and think of it as just giving you some information, so that you can watch out for. Yeah, in America like Scientology isn't considered a cult by like the government. But many people see it as a cult like the general outlook of most Americans is that Scientology is a cult. I see. So in the basic episode, let's do a little bit of background intro. Who started it? It's a modern thing. So it's not, the history isn't even that long, is it? No, it's actually started by a man named L. Ron Hubbard, ‘which' is a science or ‘who', I should say ‘who' is a science fiction writer. Okay, all right. Let me guess, he wasn't very successful in writing science fiction stories, so he decided to start his own religion.Well, he wasn't like that terrible at writing science fiction, his science fiction isn't the best, but he wanted to create religion as a way to kind of make money. A lot of people look at Scientology as a scam to make money just because of the things that he has said in the past. However, there are a lot of people who say that the whole world is wrong about Scientology. And usually that's just because Scientology gets such a loud voice. And just as you mentioned, we'll talk a little bit about their Hollywood connections later. When you get Hollywood connections, you get a lot of star power. And so that's kind of help them spread the word. Even if so many people look so poorly on it.I think this is really the danger of cults, especially when it has celebrity endorsement, because obviously they have a lot more impact than average folks, and then when they are there to sort of speak up like Tom Cruise did, well, I'm not saying everyone would tend to believe it more, but there will be some people getting tricked into believing it. But I think you said that Scientology was basically believed to be, by a lot of people, as a scam to make money, but so do a lot of cults. The cult leaders, they're not necessarily even believing in their message. A lot of them started that so that they can trick people into believing in something and so that they collect the money.

以搜索公号【璐璐的英文小酒馆】或者添加【luluxjg2】咨询课程or加入社群，查看文稿和其他精彩内容哦~All right, moving away from cemetery. Where is our next stop? Well, let's go to a hotel. I've heard many hotel haunting stories in the UK. This one is a luxury five star hotel called the Langham hotel .朗廷是吧? Langham, isn't that the one in London next to the BBC building? That's the one.I walked past that a few times.It's actually got a few ghosts in it, including one being a German prince who jumped to his death from a window on the 4th floor. So this hotel must have been there for a very long time then.It's been there since the 19th century. Oh, that's why, so a German prince actually stayed there. YES. and allegedly jumped to his death. And guests staying on the 4th floor have said they've seen a ghostly figure in a military uniform, military attire who is believed to be the Prince. 安澜, let me ask you, if you booked a hotel especially like a luxury hotel, before you go on your trip, you heard it from somewhere that this hotel is haunted. Would that make you want to stay in the hotel more or would you change your booking immediately? I probably would change my booking. The thing is I don't really like hotels anyway. It's very rare that I can have a good night sleep in a hotel. So the idea of actually being in a hotel that is haunted probably would make it even worse. It's such a whoops, maybe a ghost will come in and sing you a lullaby.I very much doubt it, but the Langham does also have another ghost that of a doctor who murdered his wife and then killed himself while they were on their honeymoon. I think I've heard of this story, I must have heard it somewhere. So this is the wife killer, so ladies watch out.And ghost of the doctor can often be seen in the room and guest reported feeling sudden drops in temperature and was called an oppressive presence. 很有压迫感的那种. So I do believe in supernatural things. And I'm not sure if I believe in this sudden temperature drop, but I think that although people don't see them, but they can feel the sort of presence or some people they can feel the presence or they can feel the change in the energy field so to speak. Yeah, I'm not sure whether or not that's because they expect it or not.Could be, could also be that you are very self-suggestive. It could be .When you heard the ghost story and you stay in that room that's supposed to be haunted and then you would experience various things. Yes, but now I want to finish off by telling you what has to be the most famous ghost story in the UK, it's so famous, it's been made into documentaries, films even, and it's called the Enfield Poltergeist.Poltergeist, I don't know if our listeners understand that word, that word was originally a German word, we translated into like淘气鬼, 什么吵闹鬼. Poltergeist is not an actual ghost or a spirit, but people I mean English speaking countries or even just general European countries, they do believe in that or they do talk about it. It's just like they pull your furniture around, they throw things and they make lots of noise. They make a chaos in your home or like a house. You don't often see them, but you hear them and you see objects moving. So this particular case is from 1977, it's the Hodgson family, who lived in a council house in Enfield, which is in North London. It's in London again. Yeah, Enfield is just a quiet part of North London. It's just one of these little towns that people who work in London they live in. Mhm. And they started reporting very strange occurrences and these quickly became terrifying.Like furniture moving on its own, knocking sound, objects being thrown like that. I know that's you, 安澜,I know. But the interesting thing was that the focus of the activity seemed to be on the daughters, Janet and Margaret and they were kind of young girls kind of approaching teenage years. And Janet was the center of all of the disturbances. Maybe the Poltergeist just wants to or wanted to play with the girls.

JLP Thu 8-15-24 Bible Thumper Thursday! Hr 1 Kamala lying, evil human nature! 1 Corinthians 7: 32-35, never try to please your wife! Calls: JADEN is Mormon, great call! JASON on BQ. Super… // Hr 2 Supers… "Just my imagination…" Calls: NOAH: African Muslim! JARRON: Forgave! Was difficult! ANNA: Mothers and church. ARI: Olive Israelite. // Hr 3 Jesus given vinegar. SHAE: Wars, Israel. JUSTIN cheated. BRANDI: BQ. SERGIO: prison. Evil black preacher for immigration; migrant R—... // Biblical Question: Why do you think about other people? TIMESTAMPS (0:00:00) HOUR 1 (0:03:08) If you're dumping your kids in Hell… Bible Thumper Thursday! (0:07:53) Human beings are evil! Kamala Harris trying to deceive voters! (0:17:04) Males concerned about marriage forget about God! (0:23:00) 1 Corinthians 7: 32-35, trying to please your wife, husband (0:28:33) JLP sings, Such a sad way to live. You're being controlled. BREAK (0:32:03) Women's Forum! Punchie.TV (0:34:18) JADEN, CA: tried to save trans friend; "My Lord and my God" (0:48:13) JASON, Buffalo, BQ: Human nature, compare self to others (0:52:30) Super: Lin Yen Chin on race, species, ethni (0:55:00) NEWS… HOUR 2 (1:03:08) Bible Thumper Thursday (1:03:56) Hake's shirt, Joel's birthday: He was late (1:15:18) Supers: BQ, Morgan Freeman, we sing "Just my imagination" (1:24:33) NOAH, WA, African Muslim, sorry! Israel, Jews, Allahu Akbar (1:33:23) JARRON, MO, 1st: Forgave father, mother… hard! (1:38:27) ANNA, Canada, mothers destroy their children, and take them to church (1:43:58) ARI, Canada, BQ, olive Israelite (1:47:38) ARI: Do you love the Jews? The whites? God? Enemies? Seen God? (1:52:03) SHAE, AR, HOLD (1:54:00) NEWS… HOUR 3 (2:03:03) Jesus given vinegar: Cruel or merciful? Bitterness of humanity (2:08:28) SHAE: Wars for money. Blessing Israel? Working on yourself? (2:13:18) JUSTIN, NY, 1st: How to help my girlfriend? Cheated. Dump her. (2:16:48) JUSTIN: Don't try to be right for her, don't want to be married! (2:18:20) BRANDI, HI, BQ: Think of people who traumatize me. Surgery. (2:23:48) SERGIO, Los Angeles: God in present, worked in prison, loved it! (2:28:47) Supers: DLive, Joel, Israelites, Samaritans… BREAK (2:32:58) Evil is real. Mothers, children. Homeless… (2:37:18) Bishop James Dixon promotes nonwhite immigration "democracy" (2:39:08) NYC alleged migrant r— from Nicaragua (2:43:17) Supers: Israel, Jesus vinegar (2:45:19) GILBERT, TX, MHM, BQ (2:47:00) SHANT, CA, 1st: Thoughts busy at night; Dealing with evil in others; Call tomorrow! (2:53:18) Closing: Stay in your hell, you're possessed!

Takk for sist! Nå peiser vi på igjen, og dagens meny er ferie, perspektivmeldingen, Kamala Harris og golfbiler. Mhm. Godt å være tilbake.

In this milestone 100th episode of the Surf Mastery Podcast, host Michael Frampton welcomes back the stylish surfer Devon Howard. Broadcasting from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara, Devon shares his insights on the elusive concept of style in surfing. The episode delves into the historical evolution of style, its significance in competitive surfing, and the subjective nature of defining style.Devon emphasizes the importance of making difficult maneuvers look effortless and how personal demeanor often mirrors one's surfing style. He contrasts the stylistic approaches of surfers like Joel Parkinson and Kelly Slater with the more explosive style of Adriano de Souza. Listeners are encouraged to focus on form over presentation, maintain a relaxed and efficient approach, and view style as a natural extension of personal expression.Episode Highlights:Introduction to Devon Howard: Recap of Devon's previous appearances on episodes 41, 77, and 86.Importance of Style in Surfing: Exploring the subjective nature of style and its impact on surfing performance and aesthetics.Origins of the Word 'Style': Michael provides a brief etymology of the word 'style' and its various meanings throughout history.Cultural Influence on Style: How different surf cultures and eras emphasize or de-emphasize style.Effortless Style: The concept of making difficult maneuvers look easy and the importance of being relaxed and calm.Influence of Personality on Style: How a surfer's personality often reflects in their surfing style.Contrived vs. Natural Style: The difference between genuinely stylish surfing and trying too hard to look stylish.Technical Aspects of Style: Tips for improving style through form, patience, and not rushing maneuvers.Style in Tube Riding: The inherent style in good tube riding and how it relates to other surfing maneuvers.Practical Advice: Devon's practical advice for surfers aiming to improve their style.Key Quotes:Devon Howard: “Style is oftentimes making the difficult look easy.”Michael Frampton: “You can be quick without being rushed.”Devon Howard: “Don't try to contrive it. Don't rush your surfing.”Follow Devon Howard Check out Devon's surfing and updates on his Instagram.Devon_howardLinkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/devon-howard-a4b2a613/.Connect with Surf Mastery:Surf Mastery Website: Download the free PDF with the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast at surfmastery.com. Instagram: Surf MasteryFull Show Transcript:Devon Howard: When I. When I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps. There's the people that get it and and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and this is episode 100 of the podcast. A little bit of a milestone. Special guest for this episode. And we've also revamped the website Surf Mastery. Com and on the front page of that website is a free PDF listing the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast. So go to Surf mastery.com and you can download that PDF for free. Today's guest. Well, I was looking back through all the stats on this podcast and the the most downloaded episodes have been from Devon Howard, so it made sense to have him on episode 100. And so you can go back and listen to. He first appeared on the show, uh, episode 41, discussing longboarding and nose riding. Then it was back in, uh, episode 77 zero. Uh, we talked about Mid-lengths in episode 86. It was Twin fins. And today in episode 100, Devin Howard joins us again to discuss style. Style is something that is in it's fundamental. It's paramount for every type of surfing that is done, from traditional longboarding all the way through to high performance, short boarding. All of the greats, all of the most memorable surfers have good style. They are stylish. From Joel Tudor in traditional longboarding through to Joel Parkinson as a high performance, competitive short boarder Tom Curren. Uh, mid lengths and twin fins. You got Torin Martin. Michael Frampton: And of course, Devon Howard himself is a very stylish surfer. He's very smooth, very graceful on a longboard, on a mid length and a twin fin. We've even seen some footage of him riding, uh, three thrusters out there on his Instagram. And his style, his technique, his gracefulness runs throughout his surfing. So a perfect topic for us to discuss in episode 100, so I would love to hear your feedback on the show in general. Last 100 episodes and of course this episode. Go ahead, send us an email Mike at Surf mastery.com. Or you can DM me on Instagram or leave a comment under the, uh, the visual for this episode. And of course, support Devin Howard, give his Instagram a follow. And of course, he's, uh, joining us from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara. Uh, Devin is currently working with Channel Islands, are working on some new surfboard models as well as he's you know, some of the most popular boards recently have been he's been a part of. So without further adieu, I shall fade in my conversation with Devon Howard. I actually see a lot of agreement between Brett and Chaz on this subject. Yeah, yeah, because there are there are thing right that you go to a Grateful Dead concert and you experience the show and the vibe, you don't really listen to them on Spotify. Devon Howard: Yeah. It's it's something to be enjoyed live. Michael Frampton: Yeah. There's a certain style and vibe to them I think that come across differently in person than it does. And also the audience they sort of draw in. Yeah. Rather to the music on Spotify right there. Devon Howard: There are two bands that I think are better live as well, which I think Radiohead is better live. I like Radiohead, I think a lot of their albums are great. I've been to a few of their shows that I think, no, this is 10 or 15 years ago. I don't know if that's still the case, but at the time when they were really peaking, they were insane live. And then I also saw James Brown live. Oh, wow. 25 years ago. And that was incredible. Mhm. I mean what a showman. Michael Frampton: Yes. Yeah I can imagine I mean there's the Radiohead live from the basement. Um unbelievable. Like gives you I can't remember what album it's they play in full from their studio basement studio and just makes you appreciate them on a whole nother level. Yeah. Just just by watching that on YouTube, not even being there. Well, yeah. Um, I remember seeing a gentleman called AMP Fiddler, another one of the best live acts I ever saw. Um, gave me a new appreciation of his music. He's sort of new, new age funk slash reggae. Um. Interesting music. Yeah. Catch a fire. Catch a fire. They're doing a tour through California at the moment. There are another unbelievable band live. Their live performance and sound is bigger than their their studio albums. I think they actually New Zealand band. You get a chance to see them. They often play in Santa Barbara. I forget the venue names, like a 500 capacity venue in Santa Barbara. They always play there. Devon Howard: Is that the ball? I'm not sure. Michael Frampton: Can't remember. Devon Howard: Anyway, a lot of venues there, but yeah. Michael Frampton: Style. Let's talk about style. Do you? Yeah. What would what do you know the origin of the word. Devon Howard: Um, I don't, but I'd imagine. Uh. Well, I hope you did some research on it. Is it, um, the Latin word is it is it is it Greek? Is it? Where does it come from? Michael Frampton: Let me sort of summarize from etymology online from the early 14th century started out as a writing instrument, pen or stylus, uh, a piece of a piece of written discourse or narrative, uh, characteristic. Characteristic, uh, rhetorical mode of an author, a manner or mode of expression. Uh, a way of life behavior. Uh, then the word sort of transformed, uh, the evolution of the word uh, from writing tool went into writing into manner of writing, into mode of expression, uh, in writing of a particular writer, writer or author. Um, and then it was in the 1500s. It was paired with the word substance, um, which basically meant back then, divine part of essence, sorry, divine part or essence, uh, and that, sort of, that sort of gave the word, uh, a deeper meaning, including finer parents or dashing character. Um, then it was the word then went into an artist's particular mode or form of skilled presentation that was later extended into athletics. Um, then by the 1800s it was distinctive or characteristic mode of dress. Obviously it was more in regards to fashion. Um, and so there's a, there's a little bit of a history of the word. So I think there's a lot of lot of depth to that. And it's certainly, um, it's very, uh, apt for, for surfing. A lot of those meanings, I think. Yes. Had tell me what you think about style and how important it is. Devon Howard: Well, style is um, from my personal experience growing up, it was a, it was a measure of good surfing and, um, it was a marker of, like, one's own presentation of their expression of surfing. Uh, I don't want to cheapen it by, I guess, using the word brand, like your brand of surfing, but, um, everyone has their own form of expression, and style is. Oftentimes I see style as making the difficult look easy and my own belief in, you know, just absorbing what was around me when I was a kid. You know, we're humans. We we sort of mimic and and imitate what's around us. I haven't innovated anything really at all. I've just looked what's around. And you take bits and pieces of first. You take it from your parents, of course. And then as you get out in the world, it's like what's going on around you. And in San Diego, where I grew up. And I think this was the same in many other served cities in not only the US but the world. Um, in the 80s, the older surfers, 10 to 20 years or year older than you, where style focused as opposed to this idea of, um, ripping or tearing something apart and in doing it with reckless abandon. Um, that was something that started getting more popular as I was a kid. So I was sort of born into this era where one thing was kind of falling out of favor. Um, and this other form of surfing was gaining popularity. And, uh, sorry, that was kind of a muddled answer, but it's it's I think it's one of the most difficult subjects in surfing to discuss or to describe because it's so subjective. Um, and it comes with the word style, comes with a lot of different ideas to people ranging from beauty to something that's very contrived and nonfunctional. Michael Frampton: Yeah. I mean, has the word style itself has, as you sort of addressed, has a lot of meanings, like everyone has their own unique style, you could say, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are stylish. So when we think of when we think of stylish surfers, we do. We think of beauty and grace and flow. Um, so and I think it is related to, to that and it's related to efficiency, right? I mean, Rob Machado comes to mind. I think he's sort of an incredibly stylish surfer, but he's also fits in that modern category. Category of radical. Yeah, he encompasses both. And I mean, world champ Joel Parkinson obviously fit the criteria of of competition surfing but remained incredibly smooth and stylish. Devon Howard: Yeah. Well, um, you know, I think depending who where you grew up and what culture you came from or grew up in, um, style could also just not be that important. You know, if, if surfing to to you or just to any individual is about, um, really pushing as hard as they can with maneuvers and being as radical as they can and, you know, tearing apart a wave of, you know, like you think of the Brazilian storm. Guys there for years have been, you know, they're well deserved. They're incredible athletes. They are highly athletic. And it is explosive maneuvers. And they're acrobats in many ways. Um, for some reason, as that game has gained popularity, some aspects of the presentation and sort of fall into the wayside where, uh, in gymnastics, um, presentation and form is still really part of the whole thing was never really let like if you do a floor routine in gymnastics, um, or let's say dance or anything like that, they're doing really kind of athletic, powerful moves, but they also keep the form and I don't know quite the exact reason, but, uh, that sort of started falling out of favor in surfing, mostly because what drives our conversations oftentimes revolves around competition. Surfing, um, like competition surfing drives a lot of the media narratives, um, let's say, who are like, where do we get our information from? It's driven by the cell to, to whatever extent that is, stab in their audience. Devon Howard: Um, surf line kind of, sort of. But they're more focused on cameras and whatnot. And then the most of the magazines have gone out of business. But only ten years ago, a lot of the stories were driven by the the personalities and the folks that competed. And there was a mixed bag in there of surfers that had great style, like Joel Parkinson. He mentioned, um, I would say Kelly Slater has a good style. It's a different style. It's his own. Um, and then on the opposite end of that would be like an Adriano de Souza or somebody like that, where he's clearly just incredibly talented, but sort of putting his surfing together and like one seamless, fluid motion was not a focus of his. And so, um, it's been interesting to watch and the broader conversations of the mainstream, how that sort of played out, uh, in back to where I grew up. I grew up on the fringe of all that. Anyways, so I was riding longboards in the 80s and 90s that was as fringe as it got. And in that world, all through that time, um, style was still important, even when folks were trying to emulate Shortboard maneuvers on longboards, there was still an emphasis of style. Um, sorry. I'll shut up. I don't know where I'm going with that, but yeah. Michael Frampton: So I'm just wondering when you look at, I mean, I think that you mentioned the Brazilian storm. I think Gabriel Medina is quite stylish. Not all the time, but probably actually more so when you see him. Freeserve he sort of. He just seems to be more relaxed when he's not surfing in a competition. And I think that's maybe what separates the I think that's a big part of being stylish is you're very calm and you're relaxed. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going slower or that you're even putting less effort in. It's just maybe you referenced gymnastics. I think a gymnast could do the same routine. They get the same height, the same amount of power. But if one of their runs, they were purposely trying to keep the presentation of themselves relaxed and calm, it would be more visually appealing. Sort of making it look, look easy. Devon Howard: Yeah. That's the that's the thing. Making it difficult look easy. Mhm. In the 60s or 50s or whatever the boards weren't very maneuverable. So um clearly the market did. Surfing was just people who were stylish and could kind of keep it together. Um, hang on one second. Um, are you hearing a beeping on your end? What? I'm getting messages. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Is that your phone? Devon Howard: Yeah. I don't know how to turn off the iMessage on my, uh. Oh, it's on the computer. I'm trying to see how to undo this. Is this on. Michael Frampton: Your phone, a phone or your laptop or your iPad? Devon Howard: It's on my laptop. Oh, sorry. You're going to have to edit this out. That's all right. I'm just getting, like, every one of them. Don't fuck me up. The client. Claudia, um, do you have any idea how to get rid of iMessage off here? Preferences services? Michael Frampton: That's a good question. I don't I don't have my, um, I don't have my laptop linked to my phone, so. Yeah. Devon Howard: Don't do it. References. Let's say. Michael Frampton: I'd say I'd be under notifications, notifications and focus is like a bell symbol. Devon Howard: On, uh, on the computer itself or on the phone. Michael Frampton: I'm looking on my laptop. Devon Howard: Where did you find the notifications in System Preferences? Michael Frampton: Okay. Devon Howard: System preferences notifications. There they are. Look at that. Michael Frampton: And top top right there's a there's a button. Allow notifications so you can turn that off or on I'd say that's it. Devon Howard: Only five messages? There we go. Okay, I want to turn that off. Okay. Apologies for that. Okay. So, um. All right. Michael Frampton: So where were we? Let me throw out some some adjectives that I wrote down after thinking about style a little bit. Um, efficient. Graceful. Functional. Calm. Focused. Relaxed. Grounded. Present. Fearless. Or maybe, better put, courageous. Is there anything you would add to that or you think shouldn't be there? Devon Howard: Uh, no. I just think it's more about a calm and a gracefulness. It's mostly what it is. And it's just a it's just the form of your personal expression. I think a lot of the style, you'll see style of folks from a distance, and a lot of ways it matches up to their personality. Right? You'll see someone who's quite busy, a lot of a lot of kinetic, sort of frantic, uh, motions and, and not always the case, but sometimes, like, okay, this person's a little overcaffeinated in general, you know, they're really mellow, kind of quiet. People have this very quiet. Always meet a really quiet surfer with their style, and they're really loud and and obnoxious. There's exceptions to the rule, but if you think about it quickly, there's not often the case. And so, um, I think a lot of those adjectives actually work pretty well. Um, I don't what did you say? Courageous. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Devon Howard: I don't really know that that applies to it. Really. I don't think it's really much to do with courage other than. Well, I was. Michael Frampton: Thinking that I was just wondering if that was a better word than fearless. Devon Howard: Mhm. Michael Frampton: Because if you, if you look, if you look scared, that's not very stylish is it. Devon Howard: No, no it's very your tent style. And yeah I've said to people I don't do surf coaching, but if I've ever seen someone in the water and looks like they're struggling, if it's appropriate or sort of convenient, like they're just sort of right there. I'll say, do you do you mind if I offer some advice? It's usually well received. Um, a lot of times I've said, I think you just relax a little bit. Your body's too tense. Looks bad, but it also screws up the your ability to surf because now it's affected the form. Like you're sort of hunched over and bracing for, like, some sort of impact where you need to be more relaxed. The arms need to be relaxed, the shoulders should be relaxed. Surely you should be able to sort of slink back and into your knees and your hips and let those kind of bend and sort of sit into the board nicely. And so I think, um, what I, what I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps as the people that get it and, and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And the a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Devon Howard: Like you go into an art gallery and there's naked, you know, images of a naked person. How is that not pornography? And it's like, well, you know, when you see it and it's like, style. You sort of know it when you see it, and then you have, um, the other end of that where people will feel style is just posing and looking cool, like you're putting your hands in the air to, to look like Alex Knost or Mickey Dora or Rob Machado, whoever the insert the surfer, you're trying to mimic their hand placement, and sometimes the hand placement provides no real function or value to the to the ride. Other than it. It might feel good, I guess, but it's not making you surf better. Um, where I like to, I often will. I will argue or believe that yes, there are people that pose and that does exist, I exist, grant you that. But good style also brings about, um, really good form. Or I would look at it a different way. Really good form pulls along the style into it. So if you have good form and whether that's in a barrel or a cutback, if your body is doing sort of the right things to make a beautiful, seamless ride easier. Devon Howard: Um, along with that usually comes a pretty good style if you don't have a good style. A lot of times the form is really working against your surfing. So for example, you got to do a cutback in your arm is up and back, um, front side. And let's say I'm turning this way. Front side cut back. Well, if my back arm is in the air waving behind me, I'm really struggling to get my body around and I'm actually having to work really hard for could potentially even injure yourself. Um, so that really hinders your surfing. But if I brought the arm in and drop it down and then have the arm kind of point toward where I want to go, the rest of my body goes. And it's actually quite easy to do the turn and consequently it looks much better. Doesn't look so awkward. Yeah. And and this could be said of your front arm. I've seen folks do cut backs with. I don't know why this happens, but sometimes their front arm is is sort of flailing and going behind them over here. Or they're extending and reaching too far. Um, so when there's this nice balance of the front and the back hand on the front side, cut back looks cool. Hey, that's great. If someone took a photo. Yeah, you probably put on the wall. Devon Howard: Looks pretty good. Looks like Michael Peterson or somebody or whatever. Joel Parkinson Ethan Ewing would be a really good contemporary example, I guess. And, um, but when it's all sort of like the form is there, it looks good, but now you're surfing better and the turn is faster and more complete. And also when you have nice form, you get the board in trim. What I mean by that is when when the boards in trim, it's sort of if you know anything about sailing, when everything's in alignment with the bow and the sail and the the boat is really hitting its top speed, there's nothing really hindering or dragging or fighting against um, that top trim speed. In surfing, you want to get to the top trim speed, because when you have speed, it's easier to complete maneuvers, it's less work. You go into the maneuvers with speed, you can do a lot better. It's like snowboarding. If anyone snowboarded you know that the first few days you're learning, the instructor will say, you just need to get going faster. You know what? We know that's scary. I don't want to go faster, but. Well, you're going so slow that that's why you're tumbling and you're catching an edge and you're getting stuck on the hill. Go faster. And then you see this light bulb moment with people like, my gosh, well, I should have just been going faster all along. Devon Howard: It's the same with surfing. You'll see people struggling to get trim speed because their form is so terrible. They're not understanding that the board is not even in trend. The board then noses out or they're waving their arms. They're there. They're there shaking their body like this, and they're trying to wiggle and do stuff. And you're watching the board underneath. And the board is just like on a gimbal, just like not getting any trim. It's just stop and go, stop and go. So it's this utter fail where if the person just relaxed a little bit, relax their arms, don't try to flop the body around and just get the idea of even going straight, which is hard to do on a chalkboard. Clearly, if you're a beginner, you probably shouldn't even be on the floor. Um, it's just going to be a struggle. Yet a board that's medium like a mid length or something, or a long board where you can kind of stand there and glide and trim, and then you can kind of get that form where your body is body's relaxed. And um, so a lot of times good style, I believe just comes with the right form, if that makes sense. Michael Frampton: I totally agree. Yeah. And that's what I think. That's what a surf coach, the surf coach's job is. And then it's once, once the person becomes at first the new, the better form will feel strange and maybe even, um, abnormal and uncomfortable. And it's only once that form becomes, uh, ingrained and you become comfortable with it, then it looks stylish. So it's it's maybe it's a precursor to style. Is is good form. Devon Howard: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, another thing that I've thought about a lot in the last several years about style is, um, it, it sort of belies the, the technique or the difficulty of the maneuver. I think if it looks like someone's trying really super hard to do like a, let's say, a crazy air or just like the craziest turn where like, they blow, they like, blow the tail out and spin the board around and like, oh, whoa, that was insane. That was so difficult. But if you see somebody do a top speed cut back and they don't lose or drift the fins and they just go and mock 20 and just bam, come up fluid and seamless. You might say, man, that was really smooth. That was really stylish. But you don't often think that that was also really difficult. It's interesting. And, um, I'm not trying to get people to cheer more for the stylist, I guess, but I think it's worth sort of acknowledging that Mikey February or Torin Martin and some of those things they're doing, um, we're drawn to them because they're beautiful, which is undeniable. Um, but it's also interesting to think that these are the highest level people at the very upper echelon, at the top peak of, uh, you know, ability of sphere fame. And it something to be learned there, like to not just only acknowledge and only see the style which is great. Devon Howard: I love that I'll watch that stuff all day long, but to like hit the rewind button and look at what they're doing and how on rail that board is and how difficult it is to hold the line and not lose it. Because a lot of times, especially in performance, short boarding it, it's incredible what the surfers do. It's like it's a controlled failure of the surfing. So a lot of times when the fins release, it's a and I know this because I put a lot of thought into fins and foils and whatnot. A lot of the best high performance surfing maneuvers are, um, a controlled failure. Mhm. Um, they're pushing the limits of the board, and a lot of times the fins or the equipment can't really handle what these surfers are giving it. It's really interesting. Look at look at someone laying into a turn and their butt is sliding across the wave and the fins and the board and everything's sliding. Um, and then look at, like a mick Fanning or somebody who can hold that or Ethan Ewing and hold it all the way through. That's gnarly. That is just like peak form. But you're like, man, that was so smooth, but you're not ever saying that was so difficult to do. And I don't know what the point is I'm making. Devon Howard: I guess it comes back to, uh, like the kind of surfing I like to do. It's could be easily scoffed at as pretty easy, like, hey, mid-length surfing, you're just going straight. It's not really difficult. Um, but I don't know, man. At the highest levels. Like, I think what Torin Martin does, I think what February does if he's on a mid lake or other, you know, there's other surfers out there doing it and I cut a watch. Wow, look at that. 5/6 of the rail of that board is buried. And that's what I do myself. And that's to me that's the most thrilling thing is to bury that rail. How how far can I push this thing before it fails me? That's just really, really thrilling. You're just on the edge of disaster. You know, when you go on one of those seven foot boards, go to the bottom, slink, you know, and and coil up into the board and push it as hard as you can. Alex Moss does this really good as well. I can go on forever. People do a great job of this and they push all that board through. And then if you don't watch it, you know, if you're not too far forward or too much weight on your front foot, you'll slingshot up the face as this fast, free feeling, like a flying feeling that's highly addictive. Devon Howard: It's something that you just keep my people that are into those types of boards, they just keep chasing it. Um, and then down the line, do the same thing again. Now I'm going to bury a whole lot of rail on the cutback. How hard can I push it? And when I get down to the bottom of the wave, can I just keep going right back to the whitewater? Oh yes, I can. Damn. Just keep going. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Uh, and if you blow that, you're doing the split that's on the board. Now you've got a torn MCL. Um, but you're going full throttle. And that on that type of equipment. Um, the form is important so that you don't botch it because you really could get injured on some of these things. It probably someone who hears has got a laugh and think, this is a joke. Like, you're being really hyperbolic, bro. Come on. It's just a mid length and you're over water. Um, yeah. When you're pushing it really hard, it's it's it's thrilling and it's exciting and it is difficult to do and it's I think it's, um, it's really appealing to a lot of people. Um, and then they, you know, they go and try and do it and say, man, I, I wish I could surf like Rob Machado on this thing. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Well, all the surfers. Devon Howard: Take ten years. Michael Frampton: Yeah, if not longer. I think all the surfers you mention and the way you talk about their surfing is they're. Can they stay connected? You know, that as, as they're going through the, through the turns and in between turns, there's no there's no radical gain or loss of speed. Right. So that where they do the cutback isn't just a change of direction. It's in sync with that part of the wave. So they stay connected to the power source. So there's a certain it's a radical maneuver, but the speed doesn't waver too much, whereas some surfers might jump up to the top and bust the fins, and they might slow right down and then fall back down into the wave and go again. And it looks good in photos and maybe gets judged well in a competition. But it's not necessarily they're not as connected to the wave as other surfers. Devon Howard: Yeah. And again, that's debatable. I'm sure there's other people who will feel opposite of that. And that's great. You know, surfing's subjective. Yeah. And you know, in in just to bring it back a little bit to competition if that's okay. I know lots of people don't care about surf competition, but it is where a lot of the best surfing's happening. It's where the like the high bar is a lot of times um, and in the 60s and 70s style was just sort of, um, it wasn't like there was a style box that was ticked. It was it was sort of like this nice little cozy little wrapping around the surfing that was just a given, you know, so it didn't really need to be discussed. And then in the 80s, when in probably really the late 70s when the twin fin was really coming on with Mr. pushing that and Sean Thompson and other people chasing him. Um, they were packing in as many maneuvers as they possibly could into a ride to take away more points. And and this isn't my own thought or original idea. I've read these things elsewhere, and I agree with his take, which is somewhere along the way. The beauty just sort of eroded because the focus is now like we're getting really fixated on number of maneuvers. And this like real technical aspect of the difficulty of the maneuvers. Devon Howard: And surfing is already highly subjective. And you have this even more subjective thing, style. Um, and some of them may be, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there was a style element at some point. I'm not aware of it, maybe there was. And um, so anyways, the 80s kind of moves on and there were clearly lots of stylish surfers. I mean, I grew up like many people my age, I'm 50, so I worshiped Tom Curren and I loved Tommy Carroll and a bunch of folks. There was lots of style, but there was also some people with some really hideous style, like Gary Elkerton and David and all these people. Nothing against them, man. Like, I think they're all incredible surfers, but there were some hideous styles and they crushed it in contests because they were just animals, like lacerating, tearing it up. And because the broader culture is being driven by whatever media is being consumed. And the media at the time was really sort of swiveling and craning and watching what's going on in competition, because that's like where the money's being plugged in. So those brands like, hey, we validate this thing we're doing, which is competition surfing. Um, and it just boiled down to what do you got to do to win this thing? And if making it look beautiful was not ever important, why would you spend time doing that? Tom Curran couldn't help himself. Devon Howard: He was stylish no matter what. But, um, lots, lots of other surfers weren't, and they did very well. Um, and so as the decade or two ensues, um, just the sort of broad mainstream viewpoint was, that style just wasn't important. However, the people that were in the sort of the underground, your locals, people that sort of stuck to the fringe and even the in people that short boarded as well, obviously still kind of kept style alive and in it. And the reason style always stayed alive is because the idea that human beings are drawn and attracted to beauty is as old as time, I think. I mean, who knows? When that began, I had a really nice chat with David Scales on, um, Surf Splendor, and we spoke about this there. So if you want to hear more about this, go check that out. I think it was a nice conversation, but I'll sort of reiterate some of the points there was. I read an article by Scott Hewlett in The Surfer's Journal, and he wrote quite a bit about style, and he illustrated a point that I'd never considered. And he sort of talking about this Greek artists. It was like 500 BC. I'm like, where is this thing going? Why are we talking about bronze sculptures? Um, but he made a really brilliant point, which is, okay, why does style matter? Why do we keep talking about it? Um, it's because beauty endures. Devon Howard: It is a common theme in human nature. Now, in recent times, I'd say beauty is being abandoned. If you look at modern architecture and just about any town, everything looks like shit. So I don't know what's going on there. We used to make beautiful buildings and now we're stopping doing it. Um, you we can't control that. But in surfing, we keep getting drawn back to this idea of beauty. Despite all those things that happen that we just talked about in the 80s and 90s competition, surfing and getting derailed. The broad culture still is always known instinctively that this is something that should, um, we should never stop cherishing. We should never stop celebrating. Um, and I think it's backed up by if you go to any Torin Martin video, go down to this thing below the screen that says views. A lot of Torin Martin videos have like a million plus views. Um, go over to Gabrielle Medina or anyone, and I'm not picking on these people. Just pick anybody. I'll bet you right now that Torin is is beating a lot of those surfers, 2 or 3 or 4 to 1 in terms of views. Now, you could argue that, well, there's more a lot more Gabriel Medina type surfers and there's not that many tour Martin's, I'll give you that. Devon Howard: But I, I think it's really because we are drawn to beauty. And so back to that Surfers Journal article, which is he he said, imagine taking those Greek statues and putting a surfboard underneath them. And when I was done reading the article, I went and I googled 500 BC Greek statue and I forget the artist's name, its Greek name, and I was instantly like, huh, look at that. You just put a surfboard under these statues. And some of the form and posture was a little bit silly, but a lot of it was pretty spot on. And then you go right over to Jerry Lopez, or you go to Mikey February or somebody else, and you can see that, um, there's a similarity to this idea of beauty. And then you go take it steps further, take it to, uh, any type of traditional dance. Have you ever seen ugly, poor form at any dance scenario where there's, like, serious people, whether it's ballroom or it's swing or it's foxtrot or it's tango or it's salsa, it's just incredibly beautiful. And it's this expression. The music is coming in. You're viewing and watching and feeling the music. There's that input, and the output is what these people are feeling. And so that our output in surfing is, is that form and that expression. Um, bullfighters. Same thing. Michael Frampton: Mhm. Devon Howard: Now the bullfighters have a little more of a pose at the end, the bulls coming in and the bull goes through the cape and they kind of hold it and they sort of like it's almost like a taunting of the bull. Like you didn't kill me. And look how calm I am right here. And a lot of the surfers in the 50s and 60s, they really admired the bullfighters as a great shot of Joey Cobell in Peru in the 60s. Guys never bullfight, but bull fought before, and he's down there and there's pictures of him in the bull ring with a Hawaiian print shirt on and doing the whole full Ole, you know. And so this idea of style really, um, is always going to matter and always be important to us. Um, so long as we don't ever abandon this, um, attraction of ours to beauty, you know, we're attracted to beautiful people. Clearly, that's a given, right? Um, but we're really drawn to beautiful, um, things art, architecture, wonderful garden, uh, an unmolested landscape. And so it I don't think people really care to give too much thought about style. Devon Howard: I think it's just sort of like I said, you know, when you see it, does it really need to be talked about? But I think in the context of a podcast like yours where people are trying to improve their surfing, um, having a real understanding that this isn't just for show style isn't just to look cool. It's not like putting on a cool outfit to look cool. Um, it's a real purpose driven thing. Certain articles of clothing look great, but they also have a purpose. Maybe it has SPF in it, maybe it's, um, built for a particular, um, activity to make it more comfortable. Um, for us, as I was saying in the very beginning, like the form, um, the style sort of follows the form. And if you, if you really think about your form and you're relaxed and you're sort of paying attention to the things that you talk about on your podcast or where people get their information, There's lots of different YouTube things, obviously. Um, you two could have nice style if you so desire. Michael Frampton: Yeah, I 100% agree. Surfing is first and foremost an art form. Mhm. It's only within competition that it becomes a sport. And then yes, sometimes we don't necessarily we sacrifice a bit of style for progression perhaps as well as what's happening in windsurfing is a sport. I still think the best of the best, the best of the best can buy. Like John John, he's number one at the moment for a reason. Not just because he's progressive, but because he he would do a progressive turn with calm style like no one else. Yeah, yeah. So I still have faith. I think there'll be the odd slip up. You know, Toledo's frantic aerial maneuver that goes higher than everyone else. The judges kind of. They can't not score it, you know. So, you know, there'll be blips in the system, glitches in the matrix, per se, until until the judges, you know, really start to consider style and and make that a point which hopefully, maybe one day they will. I think it would make, uh, I would make surfing more watchable. Devon Howard: Well, they have done so in longboard surfing. Yes. Longboard surfing has a much smaller audience, obviously. Um, but as I believe you and I talked about in the past, I think we did. I was at the WSL for a few years, and I worked on the longboard tour and built into the criteria is the word style also two other words flow and grace. Um, Style. Flow. Grace is in the criteria and it's hard, a little difficult to train the judges on it, you know? Um, it's highly subjective. It's something we could we could sit here for an hour, breaking down style, flow, grace. It will still feel like we barely scratched the surface. Um, because it's it is highly subjective. Just like art is just like music is just like food is just like, what kind of waves I like? Ah, it's just like that. It's just, um, really can be difficult to put your finger on it. But the way we did the training to help, um, these judges, if anyone cares to know this stuff is, um, have them really focus on somebody making something really difficult look easy, but also at the same time, dealt with sight of the positioning of the wave or the difficulty of the maneuver, because to the untrained eye, you could you could see someone doing a nose ride and maybe they're doing something really what you may think is beautiful on the nose. Devon Howard: Maybe their arms are held a certain way. It just looks kind of like cool. But if you pay close attention, they're like ten feet in front of the pocket and you're like, that's not that hard to do. Mhm. So the so what helps is in the other part of the criteria is um, the degree of difficulty that is part of it. So you have to, you're looking at the style of flow and grace but you're applying it to are these surfers in the pocket. Is the surfer using their rail or are they lifting the board out of the water? Because to lift the longboard out of the water and turn it as far easier than engaging the rail in the water and pushing it through a turn. That's much more difficult. And so it has been applied in longboard surfing. Let's see if we can. If anyone cares, we could try to do a campaign to get the Shortboard tour to break more. Michael Frampton: I'm with you. I'm with you. Ultimately, I do think it shines through and the cream always rises to the top. But it would be nice if it was literally in the criteria, and it was considered by each surfer to be a worthy consideration. Um, coming back to form, let me I'm going to share my screen with you. Let me. Hopefully this works. Oh, shit. Did that work? Can you see my screen? Devon Howard: I think so. Let me move my notes here a little bit. Oops. Too many things around here. I'm terrible at computer stuff, but second. So where it is now? Okay, I can see it now. Michael Frampton: So there's an example of a, you know, if that was placed on the nose of a longboard, it'd be quite cool. Devon Howard: Yeah, it's pretty close. Michael Frampton: But then also so here's you see on the left there is the way that a baby learns to stand now because the infant is so weak, there's only one way that they can learn to roll over and learn to stand up and hold themselves. Because their muscles are so weak, their bones have to be placed so accurately in order for them to be able to stand and move. And that's how we learn because of our our weakness and our slow progression into strength, we learn the most efficient way possible. Now it's the athletes that maintain that neurological efficiency that end up with the best form naturally, i.e. the way Kelly Slater's standing there in those barrels. Not only is he standing in a very similar way to the infant there, he's also very calm and relaxed in that position. Devon Howard: Yeah, I would definitely not be that calm in that way. Those waves. Michael Frampton: Exactly. So it does come back to to form. And it's also when when an athlete is standing with their joints in DNS, we call it joint centration and that the bones are stacked on top on top of each other in a very efficient way. It just looks right. Not only does it look right the way the forces are spread throughout the body, it doesn't feel hard. Anyone who's ever tried, if anyone, has ever tried to skate a vert ramp, for example, half pipe, it feels like, oh man, my legs aren't strong enough. How do people and then you watch a 12 year old just go up and down. They're not doing it because their legs are stronger than yours. They're not even doing it because they're stronger relative to their body weight. They're doing it because they're stacking themselves. Their bones and their joints are centered properly, and the force is being transferred throughout their entire body through the center of the bone and into the skateboard. Whereas someone who doesn't know what they're doing, they're trying to muscle their way through it. They only does it feel terrible. It looks terrible. Yeah. So I agree with that. Yeah. So it does come back to efficiency. And you said no good style is that you know it when you see it. My question to you is, do you know it when you feel it? Devon Howard: Yes. Um, I believe so. Um, I know, um, I've even had moments where I just didn't feel like I was in the right form. It just didn't the the turn didn't feel good or the particular move movement. Maybe it's a nose ride or something. Didn't feel great. And if you get a chance to be lucky enough to come across a video or a photo of that moment, you're like, mm, yeah, that that is actually backs it up. It looks a bit awkward. It looks a bit off. So and you definitely can feel good style because you like it, like it's all tethered to, to itself. Like it's it feels good. It looks good. Um, and it, it's sort of like carries on the ride. It's it's like when you get off the very beginning of the ride and the first bottom turn is successful and your feet are in the right place. It really sets up the rest of the ride. Um, if you botch that, let's say you screw it up getting to your feet or off the bottom. Then you get you. You screw up the pace of the wave. So, um, yeah, I've had times where my feet were too far forward or back or whatever. Um, or I hit a chop and my arms sort of waved a little bit, and then I got out of that rhythm. Um, and that didn't that definitely didn't feel good. And it certainly didn't, because it looked like I was rolling up the windows as opposed to my arms being sort of down and going the direction that I want to be headed. Devon Howard: A lot of times the front end, the back end oftentimes are going the direction you want to go. I find that to be very helpful, and that feels good to me because I feel really centered. I or you'd say stacked. You know, I never thought of it that way, but, um, so yeah, I would agree. I would say you definitely. You definitely feel it. Um, my own belief is I don't I don't do anything in the style that I feel is what's called contrived, where I'm trying to present before of some kind that it has a certain look. The form I have is, is really based off of function, and that's because I watched the generation two ahead of me at a waves like wind and sea and Cardiff Reef, and I watched the elders and what the I really watched closely what they were doing. How they were sinking down into the board. And I noticed that their hands, their fingers were never apart. Their, um, hand gestures were sort of always in the direction of where their board and body was heading. It was like this stacking or centering. He kind of like hunkered down, but they never looked stiff or scared or afraid of anything or timid. It was very, a very confident, almost like a martial artist, like a kung fu person or something that has confidence in the form of that particular move. Devon Howard: Um, the really good surfers, the real standout surfers. I, I identified that pretty young and I said, I want I need to learn how to do that. Um, so it was never a contrived thing, like, I need to look good and look cool. I just knew that that was good surfing. And as a consequence of learning going through that, it also felt really good. It was like a good golf swing. I don't golf at all, but I have friends who do and I can understand like how much work they put into that golf swing. And when they do that, clearly it looks good from a distance because they hit the ball and it goes right where they want it to go. So that's pretty awesome. But they'll tell you it feels good. It's like uh, or baseball. If you've ever played baseball, you know the feeling of a homerun. There's a sound of the bat and the feel through the bat into your hands, and you feel it. The follow through of the swing. You're like, that ball is out of here. It's pretty cool. Um, Mhm. A reward to not that it's work but there's sort of like this payoff and a reward to the dedication that it took to learn that, that art form. Mhm. Michael Frampton: But it always comes back to the feeling. Yeah. Devon Howard: It really does. Yeah I didn't I haven't put too much thought into the feeling piece of it. But um yeah. You know it's disgusting and really dumb and shallow. But I've, I've had moments where the way where the ride did it feel good, and I didn't even finish the wave. I was so not into the feeling. I just kicked out. I was like, I've botched this thing so bad that someone else just needs to finish it. I'm just. I just kick out and I go back up to the top and kind of regroup and go, what? What just went wrong there? And then, you know, like surfing. Everyone surfs for different reasons too. Like for some people, surfing is a couple times a month. It's an escape for them. They don't care if they surf. Well, that's not what they're there for. Michael Frampton: Like they're probably not listening to this, though. Devon Howard: Probably not. Um, and I like I've had people say, man, you look so serious when you're surfing. I'm like, I'm pretty serious about it. Like it? I'm to me, it's so strange. It's serious fun and and it's as I've gotten older, I haven't lost interest in it. It's like a it's like a hunt to me. It's really weird. No, and I don't I don't know if it's just some human thing of like the game and the chess moves and the everything involved with observing patterns. I've observed patterns for decades, and now I see the patterns, and the benefit for me is I know which wave to pick. I know where to beat. And by knowing that I've set up the ride and therefore I've sort of like predetermined this feeling that I'm after, which is, as I said, it's highly addicting. Surfing like you, you never satiated. Why is that? You always want another one. You always want more. Um. And but all through this process, the hunt, the enjoying, understanding the patterns, the chasing, the moment, the feeling. Um, there's a there's a tremendous sense of there's like a reward when all the elements have come together and you apply everything you've learned. It's a really cool feeling. I think you could say that about a lot of things in life, whatever your or your craft is. Devon Howard: And for me, surfing isn't just like some waste of time thing, like that's part of it. That's a bonus to me. Like, hey, I'm not doing chores or I'm not at work. That's fantastic. I will take that. But it's also like a craft. It's like a, it's a, it's it's a way I express myself. Some people do that through building things out of wood in their garage or a number of other things. Um, so the style piece of it, it's just sort of come along with it. It never was like, I'm going to really think about this super duper hard. Um, and you just, you learn through time that they the style and the and the form, they sort of, like, are tied together, you know, and you kind of look at it this way, and then you go back and look at it the other way, and they really come together nicely. And if you fight them, you're surfing. You're not going to surf as well. If you're not surfing as well, you're not going to feel it as right. You won't feel that thing we just talked about. Um, and then consequently, not that not that that many people care, but you're surfing is going to be kind of ugly. Michael Frampton: Thing is. Michael Frampton: It'll. Michael Frampton: Because when you are, when you're connected and you're efficient, it feels better. Simple as that. It feels better if you if you close your eyes and just imagine, like an image or a video section of someone who epitomizes style, are they? What are they feeling in the moment? Are they worried about what they look like? No, no. Are they are they are they scared? No. Are they putting in a ton of effort? Devon Howard: I would say no. Michael Frampton: It's in the. Devon Howard: Moment. Yeah. There's probably a small number of people who. It's contrived, like you could go to Byron Bay. Sorry. Sorry. Byron Bay. They pick on you right now. You could go to Malibu. Um, pick your spot. Ah, maybe Montego Bay. I don't know, uh, way inside there. There's going to be places where there are folks that, for whatever reason, this. Well, like, who cares? There's no, like, laws or rules. Like, I'm not mad about this. It's just they're just observations. That's it. They're really controlled. It's just so contrived. They're sort of putting the form or I'm sorry, let me back up. They're putting the presentation ahead of the form. You know, they're worried about all the bells and whistles and the dressing, but, like, at the core of all the ingredients going into making this beautiful thing, they've got it all wrong, you know? And so, um, you. Michael Frampton: Can always smell that though, I think. Devon Howard: And it's a missed opportunity for them. Uh, does it change my life or your life or anybody listening? You do. You, man. Like, I'm very libertarian in that way. I don't really care. But, um, we're on a podcast called Surf Mastery, so we're we're we're nerding out. And if you're here to get better, don't get caught up in the presentation. Get caught up in the form. The presentation is going to come along. And yeah, it's just like this beautiful byproduct. You don't have to really. You shouldn't have to try to have good style. You should you should try to be good at surfing. And then once you have that confidence, you know, if you see a photo or catch a surf line, rewind. If you can see that far and you happen to notice that your your hands are bent at the wrist and going in instead of out, or you happen to notice that your fingers are wide apart, you could pull them in and it looks better, but it also centers and stacks you. You start feeling more stacked over your board, and once you start doing that, it starts improving. Your style just starts improving. And, um, it's interesting that tube riding, this is what we talked about with David the other day, I think. Or maybe we didn't, I can't remember, but he someone I was talking to you about. It's interesting that almost all good tube writing has good style. Most of it you You rarely see someone with really hideous style getting as sick barrel. Yeah. Michael Frampton: So yeah, because the, the, the the wave will hit them in the butt with their post dance. They just don't they don't fit in their ugly. Devon Howard: Yeah I think it's true. He's a lesson there that can be applied to other maneuvers like but but it's not always true. That good tube style now equates to this beautiful style of the face. You'll see what doesn't fall apart. Um. Why is that? I don't know exactly. Maybe the. I think one thing that could help with style, um, from a technique standpoint, is, um, don't rush your surfing. I've noticed, like, folks that, remember we were talking earlier about breaking trim, um, and seeing people that are trying to wiggle. They're sort of swaying. A lot of times it's the upper body that's swaying when that's not really helping them in any way. It's not benefiting the the ride. It's causing the board to lift out of the water and side to side motion, typically. And now you're breaking the trip. Now in a short board. A short board needs to be side to side, but it's also got to be pushed so that it's it's building momentum in a forward fashion. The people that are not very good are kind of not going anywhere, because they don't understand that. They're just sort of wiggling their arms and breaking the trim. Devon Howard: Um, and I think if you just. Yeah, just like think about being a little bit more quiet, um, and, and being a little bit more quiet means you're not in a big hurry like you don't if you're not at a level where you need to try to get eight maneuvers in the wave, don't do it. Take take your time and get the two really nice maneuvers and those will feel really good. Be patient off the bottom when you're. Let's start from the beginning. You go and you paddle in. You go to do a bottom turn. Just be there in that moment with that bottom turn. Don't be thinking about the four moves you want to do down the line, because now it becomes this rut here. You're hurrying up the surfing, and now you're kind of like screwing up the pace of the ride. You're screwing up the pace of the wave. And when you do that, now you're out of sync. When you're out of sync, it doesn't feel or look good. So I think the best advice to like, how do I get good stop, start with the foreign and don't rush your surfing. Devon Howard: Don't try to contrive it. Don't try to Like I'm gonna have. Make sure my hands are up here and I'll go like this. And I'm looking backwards and going, okay, that's go. You do you. But you know, that's not helping you surf better. Michael Frampton: Yeah, yeah. You can you can be quick without being rushed. Devon Howard: Exactly. Michael Frampton: Like like a drummer that's drumming at 160 beats per minute. If they're ahead of the beat slightly. It sounds rushed, but if they're on the beat, it's in time. It's rhythm and they're nice and relaxed. They're still fast. They're just not rushed, utterly. And it's interesting you mentioned, like the hands curled and like this. If your hands are curled in like this, you will feel scared. Your physiology affects your emotions. That's a scared posture. That's a protective posture. So if you forcefully open up your hands, like Tony Robbins says, stand up tall and and straight and relaxed, you will feel better. But if you force yourself to smile, you will feel better inside. So I think that, you know, a bit of video analysis and analyzing your own style can actually and changing it can actually make surfing feel better as well. But, um, I love those tips. You just, um, said and it was a good summary and it's a great place to end. Devin, thank you so much. Devon Howard: All right. I hope we, uh, made some sense there. It's fun to talk about it, because I've felt this stuff for a long time, but I don't really ever talk about it. And it's only just in recent times. And, um, I gotta thank Scott Hulett from The Surfer's Journal for getting the gears going in my mind of how to think about this stuff. Um, it's fun to share it, so I hope people get some value out of this conversation. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, we can if you come up with more thoughts on it, let me know. We get you back on and we'll expand because it's an important topic. Devon Howard: Well, we're, um, we're in the middle of some fin placement on a mid lane, so I got to get back down there. So I also got this, um, dust down here. Michael Frampton: All right. Thanks, Devin. I'll let you write. You get back to it. Devon Howard: All right. Thank you. Michael. See you.Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast

A new book from an influential psychologist explains that when it comes to mentoring, educating or parenting teenagers, making them feel respected is key. Dr. David Yeager, Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin and the cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute discusses his new book, 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. Plus, listeners call in to talk about their strategies for motivating the young people in their lives.*This segment is guest-hosted by Kousha Navidar

Calls: Pit bulls. Democrats: Cori Bush primaried. UK stabbing riots: FIERY call with Mark. Joe's white-on-black crime story. The Hake Report, Wednesday, August 7, 2024 AD TIME STAMPS * (0:00:00) Start* (0:02:17) Hey, guys * (0:03:33) WILLIAM, CA: Pit bulls, tenants * (0:09:11) WILLIAM: People who add value * (0:11:30) WILLIAM: Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, WHM, MHM * (0:14:18) WILLIAM: Kamala, Tim Walz * (0:14:58) Cori Bush bio * (0:21:11) MARK: Pit bulls. Alex's call. Pacifism! * (0:44:53) JOE: Malamutes, Obama, Fed, economy * (0:52:03) JOE: race and crime * (0:59:09) Coffee: Hannibal references by Trump * (1:03:54) Coffees: You can have Adele; Shoutout * (1:05:29) Coffees: BBQ invite; Dressed up black for Halloween? * (1:10:33) Coffee: DEI, Affirmative Action, Thomas, Biden-Kamala * (1:21:49) MANUEL, CA: Sonya Massey, hot water, blacks and cops * (1:25:39) MANUEL: Pit bulls, owners * (1:29:26) MANUEL: Illegal driver: college girl died in accident * (1:31:27) MANUEL: Hell's Angels, drug bust in Bakersfield, Hispanics * (1:36:09) JAIME, MN: UK stabbing, rioting * (1:44:01) JAIME: Evil vs evil * (1:46:20) JAIME: Young black lady with an older white man, crime * (1:48:22) ALEX, CA: I'm not angry like you and Mark * (1:50:20) Vroom - "Hello, Hello" - 2003, Rosebud LINKS BLOG  https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2024/8/7/the-hake-report-wed-8-7-24 PODCAST / Substack  HAKE NEWS from JLP  https://www.thehakereport.com/jlp-news/2024/8/7/kamala-picks-tim-walz-for-vp-hake-news-wed-8-7-24 Hake is live M-F 9-11a PT (11-1CT/12-2ET) Call-in 1-888-775-3773 https://www.thehakereport.com/show VIDEO  YouTube  -  Rumble*  -  Facebook  -  X  -  BitChute  -  Odysee*  PODCAST  Substack  -  Apple  -  Spotify  -  Castbox  -  Podcast Addict  *SUPER CHAT on platforms* above or  BuyMeACoffee, etc.  SHOP  Spring  -  Cameo  |  All My Links  JLP Network:  JLP  -  Church  -  TFS  -  Nick  -  Joel   Get full access to HAKE at thehakereport.substack.com/subscribe

JLP Mon 8-5-24 Female Monday! Hr 1 Last BQ: People love emptiness. Clip: Single mother cries on camera. Calls: Trump vs NABJ woman, New BQ: Suffer consequences? Hr 2 Supers: Wisdom. Calls… Seth, 26: Family trip in Switzerland or band gig in Arlington? Living with grandma… Hr 3 Calls: Seth continues: Bad relationship with dad. Sarah is a ball earth denier! Erica: Nightmares. Dana: Stop idolizing thoughts! Darrell argued with a Bible thumper. Supers… Last week's Biblical Question: Do you love the emptiness of not knowing who you are? (Most do!) NEW Biblical Question: Do you suffer the consequences of your actions? TIMESTAMPS (0:00:00) HOUR 1 (0:03:33) Church, wisdom, BQ: You love the emptiness… New BQ! (0:11:42) MHM, Female Monday, Angry person: Evil society! (0:19:18) Loving misery! Single mother, egotistical female. An act! (0:34:12) JASON, Buffalo: Trump corrected the NABJ woman; Speaking fast (0:39:58) BRANDON, Canada: BQ: Consequences (0:43:36) ARI, Canada, 33yo father of daughters: Beta! Good parents? (0:48:51) ARI: Overcome anger? (0:51:28) Supers (0:55:00) NEWS … HOUR 2 (1:05:16) Supers: Wisdom won't impose; Jason agree? S immoral with ex? (1:15:06) DEAN, SC, went to DC; thoughts on Israel war? BQ, TFS (1:22:01) SETH, VA, 26: Family trip or band gig? Live w grandma, outta gf's, pot (1:32:06) Announcements: PunchieTV live 2 PM PT, Joel Friday… (1:36:01) JLP and Joel Friday: Men providers for women?! (1:41:06) SETH: Mother bought ticket! When you gonna grow up? (1:49:16) SETH: Not praying, Dad cheated on mom way back. He's weak. (1:54:00) NEWS … HOUR 3 (2:02:36) SETH: Dad on adderall, "I'm depressed" … "mind palace" (2:10:05) SARAH, AZ: Not a spinning ball! Hake… Stars stand still?! the Bible (2:31:26) s/o Sarah. Announcements: PunchieTV (2:34:07) ERICA, CO: Nightmare… Stay present; Megan Thee Stallion-Kamala (2:38:16) DANA, WA: mother, mess… (2:44:03) DANA: Stop idolizing thoughts, they're your god! (2:46:31) DARRELL, TX: Argued w/ Bible thumper, "Jesus is God." Don't argue w/ Devil! (2:49:21) Supers: BQ, Trump… Anger (2:55:33) Closing: Forgive

GUEST: Kaz of Atheist Edge discusses racism, the cause of crime, and the politics of division: Trump or Kamala? A fiery call with Mark! The Hake Report, Friday, August 2, 2024 AD — Stream dropped in the middle, but restarted! GUEST LINKS:  https://www.youtube.com/@atheistedge  |  https://x.com/AtheistEdge  |  https://www.instagram.com/atheist_edge/  |  https://www.patreon.com/atheistedge  |  https://www.facebook.com/atheistedge  TIME STAMPS * (0:00:00) Start / Kaz, Atheist Edge coming * (0:03:05) Hey, guys! * (0:04:34) GUEST: Kaz, Atheist Edge channel * (0:05:39) 13/50, criminalizing pot * (0:14:14) Family breakdown, crying "racism," white crime * (0:25:08) Anger, Media, Govt, division * (0:28:46) Solution to 13/50 issue: Honesty, objective * (0:30:53) Trump vs Kamala for race issue? BLM riots, protests * (0:41:00) Issue: Police and blacks * (0:46:25) SHAWN, FL: black woman, rebuke, nice cop-citizen story * (0:56:04) DANIEL, TX: Burn pits, veterans — STREAM DROPPED! * (0:56:59) WE'RE BACK, PART 2 * (0:58:04) GUEST: Kaz helped a friend who didn't get VA help * (0:59:34) MARK, CA: No crime during slavery * (1:03:06) MARK vs Kaz: Crime in history, Civil Rights * (1:11:09) Civil Rights, race issue * (1:14:34) MAZE, OH: Mixing, Sandra Massey, your crime * (1:19:10) Not a fan of Kamala * (1:25:14) Closing with Kaz of Atheist Edge * (1:27:31) JAIME, MN: Society mess: Libertarian false values: Drugs, LGBT * (1:34:27) JUSTIN, CA: Permissible, but not beneficial, mental excuse * (1:37:58) Coffee: Carver boiling down Sonya case* (1:41:23) Coffees: working man, MHM * (1:42:31) Coffee: Z man, hater * (1:44:04) Coffee: Terri, smile for MHM * (1:45:00) Closing: Psalters, Sepideh Vahidi - "Agnus Dei" LINKS BLOG  https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2024/8/2/kaz-of-atheist-edge-returns-fri-8-2-24 PODCAST / Substack  HAKE NEWS from JLP  https://www.thehakereport.com/jlp-news/2024/8/2/prisoners-come-home-from-russia-hake-news-fri-8-2-24 Hake is live M-F 9-11a PT (11-1CT/12-2ET) Call-in 1-888-775-3773 https://www.thehakereport.com/show VIDEO  YT Pt 1 / Pt 2  -  Rumble*  -  FB Pt 1 / Pt 2  -  X   -  BitChute Pt 1 / Pt 2  -  Odysee Pt 1*  PODCAST  Substack  -  Apple  -  Spotify  -  Castbox  -  Podcast Addict  *SUPER CHAT on platforms* above or  BuyMeACoffee, etc.  SHOP  Spring  -  Cameo  |  All My Links  JLP Network:  JLP  -  Church  -  TFS  -  Nick  -  Joel   Get full access to HAKE at thehakereport.substack.com/subscribe

A couple more Sonya "hot water" shooting calls. Trump vs NABJ and "black" Kamala Harris. Hake argues about historic American founders with callers. The Hake Report, Thursday, August 1, 2024 AD TIME STAMPS * (0:00:00) Start * (0:01:24) Topics * (0:02:47) Hey, guys! MHM * (0:05:49) JAIME, MN: Sonya dishonest? Anti-cop propaganda? * (0:13:46) JAIME: Kamala, Trump, NABJ * (0:16:58) JOE, AZ: white collar crime stats * (0:23:21) JOE: prostitution, PDF stuff * (0:26:23) JOE: 3/5ths, Reservations, Immigration, Irish * (0:31:15) JOE: Pastor, Vehicle Theft, more on Catholics * (0:35:35) JUAN, WA: talking to other women, no longer lying, wife leaving * (0:48:06) JEFF, LA: Trump at NABJ, doesn't pander * (0:52:00) JEFF: Joe stats, whites, crime, car theft * (0:54:05) JEFF: "African American," not in European countries! Jamaican * (0:59:09) WILLIAM: Sonya "hot water" shooting, compliance, stats * (1:06:19) WILLIAM: Frederick "rioter," MHM, Shelby Steele, Crime tips * (1:11:24) Super: Greggatron: Bible denier drop!  * (1:14:26) Coffee: Sion: Men take a page from Trump with women! * (1:15:12) Coffee: Popcorns: 'de facto' Affirmative Action caricature? * (1:20:04) Coffee: Yenrik: She's a woman! She's black! * (1:22:48) Kamala vs Trump: Did she turn black? "Lie," per CNN! * (1:33:49) MARK: Constitution, T Jefferson racist or hypocrite? * (1:40:15) MARK: NABJ, Trump, crime stats * (1:44:27) JOHN, KY: BHI, American history caricature * (1:52:53) Orchid - "Class Pictures" LINKS BLOG  https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2024/8/1/the-hake-report-thu-8-1-24 PODCAST / Substack  HAKE NEWS from JLP  https://www.thehakereport.com/jlp-news/2024/8/1/hake-news-thu-8-1-24 Hake is live M-F 9-11a PT (11-1CT/12-2ET) Call-in 1-888-775-3773 https://www.thehakereport.com/show VIDEO  YouTube  -  Rumble*  -  Facebook  -  X  -  BitChute  -  Odysee*  PODCAST  Substack  -  Apple  -  Spotify  -  Castbox  -  Podcast Addict  *SUPER CHAT on platforms* above or  BuyMeACoffee, etc.  SHOP  Spring  -  Cameo  |  All My Links  JLP Network:  JLP  -  Church  -  TFS  -  Nick  -  Joel   Get full access to HAKE at thehakereport.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Xochitl and Jack talk about what they think the future of ESL entails.00:00:00JackHey, A is the English podcast listeners. It's Jack here and we just want to announce that we are now on WeChat. Our WeChat ID is A-Z English podcast that is A-Z English podcast, one word all lowercase.00:00:17JackAnd if you.00:00:18JackJoin the group. You will be able to talk with me. You'll be able to.00:00:22JackTalk with social.00:00:23JackAnd we can answer your questions. We can read your comments on the podcast. So we'd love for you to join us and be active in our we chat group. Our WeChat ID is A-Z English podcast. Thanks. See you on the app.00:00:48JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast. My name is Jack and I'm here with.00:00:52JackMy co-host social.00:00:53JackAnd today, we're doing a topic talk episode and we're talking about the future of ESL or the future of EFL English as a second language or English as a foreign language.00:01:05JackAnd UM.00:01:06JackI've got a lot of opinions about this social because my job is here in Korea. I teach at the university and so I'm always listening and and trying to predict what the the future of the industry might be.00:01:25JackBecause it kind of greatly affects my my livelihood, my ability to have a job and earn an income.00:01:34JackAnd.00:01:36JackI've I've got my opinions about it. What do you what are your opinions about the future of ESL? What do you what do you think the the future might might bring?00:01:44XochitlUhm, you know, I haven't been in the industry nearly as long as you have, Jack. So like, I kind of, I feel like by the time that, you know, because of my age, I'm I'm younger and everything. By the time I graduated college and everything like.00:02:01XochitlThat that the industry was already taking the nosedive while I was, you know, in college, I would say. And, you know, the writing has been on the wall for a while, that there's especially during with the pandemic and a lot of people.00:02:11JackYeah.00:02:21XochitlI mean the no mad lifestyle and teaching classes online and then there were certain difficulties with getting visas and staying in different countries.00:02:31XochitlDuring the pandemic and there were, you know, a lot of complications because of COVID that created a ripple effect of a lot of systemic changes that were, I think, already kind of on the on the fringe before, but definitely.00:02:46XochitlKicked up uh during and after the pandemic and uh, how do I say this? I'm I'm not really sure about the future. I do know that.00:02:57XochitlIt's not as lucrative a business, you know, as it used to be. I would say definitely people who are in ESL now, it's kind of like a.00:03:06XochitlA labor of love and it used to be that, you know, 20 years ago, you're starting pay in in a job like what you would get paid in Korea was the same as what you get paid now. And of course it went a lot farther 20 years ago. Yeah.00:03:19발표자Right.00:03:22JackYeah, yeah, things are more expensive now. Inflation has basically cut that by 1/3.00:03:29JackYeah.00:03:30발표자Hmm.00:03:31JackYeah.00:03:32XochitlThe buying power of that same quantity, it's just not what it used to be.00:03:36JackThread.00:03:38XochitlSo I don't know and I think that also displayed some people from, you know taking the route of moving to another country because it takes a lot of money which a lot of people also aren't aware of to to move out to another country. Yet in Korea like you get an apartment provided.00:03:57XochitlAnd you get a lot of benefits, but just the visa process alone, plus they reimburse you for your flight ticket after like a year of contract, but you have to pay the money.00:04:06XochitlFront and and a bunch of those related charges. You know, we're talking about hundreds or over $1000 and then.00:04:15발표자MHM.00:04:19XochitlYou know your pay is just so. So I think it makes a lot of people question whether they want.00:04:24XochitlTo be like.00:04:26XochitlWork to the bone in some of these jobs. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it, I think on both ends, both for, you know, schools that are hiring teachers from outside of the country when they. I think it's also become a thing of why should I go through the hassle of.00:04:43XochitlHiring someone from outside of my country and paying for their health check and paying for their visa sponsorship and all. And you know, making sure they are who they say they are doing background check and receiving all these documents and processing them like why should I go through all this trouble when I can get someone in my own country with thanks to globalization and better education tools they might.00:05:03XochitlSpeak, you know perfect English and I can just get someone who already knows the culture as well and who I won't have to worry about like.00:05:11XochitlHolding their hand and walking them through the process of moving to a new country and from the teachers perspective, it's like why should I uproot my whole life? I mean, a lot of people do anyway because of the adventure.00:05:15발표자Yeah.00:05:23XochitlAspect.00:05:24XochitlBut at the same time it's like.00:05:27XochitlWhy should I uproot my whole life to make minimal pay? You know, when I could just.00:05:34XochitlVacation there instead. Or you know whatever. So I think both of those things have a are having an impact on the current market. What do you think?00:05:44JackYeah. No, I think you're right on. I think you're on target there on the mark, there's a couple. There's kind of two different.00:05:53JackBoxes that I am thinking about, the two two kind of category.00:05:58JackWorries the first one is what you were talking about. It's like there's plenty of capable people in Korea and Japan and and China who speak English, just who speak English very well, who can teach, who are who are Chinese, or who are Korean, or who are Japanese they can.00:06:18JackTeach people in their own country you know, they're like, why do you need to bring in an expensive?00:06:26JackUh foreigner to teach English when you can get.00:06:33JackJust the same quality from someone from your country, and it's probably much cheaper to.00:06:41JackYou know you you you can avoid all the other expenses. You know the the travel expenses and the the bonuses and stuff like that, that they have to offer to attract people from other countries to come here.00:06:53JackAlso, I think the the fascination with like English is starting to wear off a little bit like it's not.00:07:01JackUM, I I don't know. It's it's, it's not as.00:07:07JackHow can I say it's?00:07:10XochitlPeople are thinking like it's not, like, indispensable now that you know English.00:07:16JackYeah. Yeah, right. It's it's, it's not. It's not as special as it maybe once was or.00:07:23JackAnd.00:07:24JackYou you know, I mean, I I think it's it's more of a I think people are learning it because English is still the the de facto international business language like that's the way companies or people and companies will communicate with each other internationally they'll use English as the.00:07:44JackThe is the the common language, but that takes me to the other side of the of the issue. The other part of the issue, which is the technology you know you can you could write a form letter in seconds using chat EPT in perfect English.00:08:01JackWhereas before you used to see really hard and understand all the grammar and then write the letter yourself, you know now you can, it'll just spit out a perfect English form letter or any letter for you immediately if you just type in a few prompts.00:08:20XochitlGoodnight.00:08:20JackAnd UM.00:08:22JackAnd that's a big change. That was a big game changer, I think. And the other thing is I think the technology is going to get better like.00:08:33JackApps like Papago or Google Translate are able to take a foreign language and and translate it into English in a very almost perfect manner. Like it's it's quite accurate and.00:08:52JackIt used to be really not inaccurate. It used to used to be nonsense. It was really funny actually, when I would read essays that were translated through Google Translate because.00:09:05XochitlWait.00:09:06발표자You know.00:09:07JackYeah.00:09:07XochitlIt was so obvious.00:09:08JackRight. You were. So yeah, it was like something like, you know, I don't know. It just just bizarre, crazy things that I that I that I that I read there and now you now now it's much it's much more accurate. So you've got tools that are that are getting better and better.00:09:29JackFor for people to translate.00:09:31JackAnd then finally the you know in the future I think you know it's going to be to the point where you might be able to put like an air pod in your ear and and speak your native language and the other person that you're talking to is going to hear English in their earpiece and then they'll speak into.00:09:52JackTheir device and the other person will hear their native language, and so conversations will be totally.00:10:02JackCapable or possible between two people who don't speak any common language. You might not be smooth, you know, as smooth as doing it in real, real time. But as the technology gets better, I think you know it might become seamless. Where?00:10:22JackThe conversation is very easily had between two people.00:10:27JackUsing just using technology, but I still think there's going to be a desire among a certain group of people to learn the language. Uh the old fashioned way just for their own.00:10:43XochitlSelf Improvement company.00:10:43JackShall we say?00:10:44JackLike edification, you know their own satisfaction of, of being able to say I'm a bilingual person, I speak English and I speak Chinese or or Spanish or or Japanese or whatever.00:11:01JackAnd they'll be able to. They'll get better positions in companies, I think because they'll be able to sit down and have a negotiation, a conversation in English with with someone and that that would be, it'll still be a benefit for people, but there's going to be other avenues that people can use other.00:11:20JackMethods that are going to be.00:11:23JackAnd not as good as, as uh as learning the language but still allow them to communicate on some level. And so the more that these this technology gets better and advances, the less you need there is for, you know foreign.00:11:43JackImported foreign teachers.00:11:46JackTo teach English in countries like Korea and China and Japan. And so I just see I see it becoming less and less necessary between having local people do it and then also using the technology as it gets better. And you put the comp, you combine those two together.00:12:06JackAnd it's to me, it's like bye bye birdie. You know, like goodbye.00:12:13JackTo my job, you know? So I I worry about that. Not not that much, because I'm already, you know, almost 50 years old. So the age of retirement is not far away from me, really. So I think I'll be able to hang in there for the for the, you know. But I think I I got lucky.00:12:32JackJust.00:12:33JackI'll be one of the last of the groups of of people of my generation. My generation will be the last group that kind of does it this way and they'll some new model and some new method is going to emerge and I'm not sure if that will include foreign English teachers.00:12:53JackOr not. You know, I'm not sure. No one can tell the future, but I'm just a little bit concerned for young people teaching English in Korea, whether they're still gonna have a job 5/10/15 years from now, I'm not sure.00:13:08XochitlAre you?00:13:10XochitlUM.00:13:12XochitlHow do I say this? Are you?00:13:17XochitlAre there are these positions like the one that you have? Are they tenured positions like is there like?00:13:23JackNo, we we're contract workers, you know. So we, yeah, we we get two year contracts and so that you know we keep signed resign and re sign and resign 2 year contracts. So yeah there's no there's no guarantee for me that you know these if if it goes away.00:13:27발표자Oh.00:13:44JackI have to.00:13:46JackYou know, and I'll be. I'll be be kind of old to be looking for a new new career. You know, it would be very difficult for me to find another job. I'm not. I don't think I'm suitable, really. For anything else other than teaching English as a second language. To be honest, it's all I've done for the last 2020 years.00:14:08XochitlRight. Yeah, geez, that's absolutely wild to think about. It's like I didn't. I didn't really realize that the positions were like, like, So what? What do you mind me asking? What position? Like what is it called like? Are you are you like a professors aide or are you like a?00:14:10JackI'm scary.00:14:28XochitlOK.00:14:28JackOhh yeah, so my official position is professor, associate professor.00:14:35XochitlOK, so you're an associate professor, so.00:14:36발표자Yeah.00:14:37JackYeah.00:14:39XochitlThat's wild to me that you would have an associate professor on a two year.00:14:44XochitlContract.00:14:46JackYeah, yeah, there's a lot of contract workers. Yeah, 10 years, really. You know, for the PHD's, you know, people who are doing research, you know, I'm not a research. I'm not a researcher. I'm a basically a a teacher. You know, I mean, I.00:15:05JackI don't even like the word professor. You know, in America we don't.00:15:11JackIf you teach at a university, you are a professor. I mean, that's basically the way that works.00:15:17JackWe just have one word for it here. You know, in a lot of countries, they have a lot of different names for the different levels and I don't know what all those are in Korean, but I know that my level is not, you know, it's not the high up level, it's it's a.00:15:34JackIt's it's just a, you know, I'm a contract worker. Uhm uh. But you know it's the contract has always been guaranteed, you know, so I've never worried about not getting another contract. The The what I worry about is, are those things that I was talking about before, is that when it gets to the point where we're no longer needed.00:15:56JackAnd the school really has to, you know, assess whether this is even necessary anymore given the new technology, given the the skills of of current teachers here in Korea, you know, do do we need these foreign?00:16:15JackThis foreign faculty and that that is, you know, and I don't blame I I don't blame them either, you know, I mean, it's just like.00:16:23JackThe way things progress and and things happen, you you become you become redundant. As we say in English, there's just no it's. You're not needed anymore because there are other other things or other people that can do the same thing that you're doing. And so you become kind of.00:16:43JackOn uh, uh. What's the word I'm looking for? You become unnecessary, I guess.00:16:54XochitlYeah, but uh.00:16:58XochitlWell.00:17:00XochitlI have a counterpoint actually to this thought process I that I just thought of as I was listening to you talking to this. Mm-hmm. I think as someone who grew up as a balanced bilingual, I think the language like, even if we get AI to perfectly, you know, simulate language and have a a seamless conversation between two people.00:17:20XochitlLanguage.00:17:21XochitlIs so.00:17:22XochitlSo.00:17:23XochitlCultural there's so many cultural aspects to learning a language, and I think those will always be important to experience and master on so many levels on economic skill because like, if you're working in business or client relations or whatever, you're going to have to know about the other.00:17:42XochitlPerson's culture.00:17:44XochitlUM, as an appreciative measure, so you can truly understand the culture on a different level, like on a deeper level. There's so many reasons why I think the.00:17:54XochitlThat that learning language is it has a deeply cultural component that's important, that can't be replicated through AI, and that won't be able to be replicated through a.00:18:06XochitlA person like for example a a Korean person or a Chinese person teaching English. Just like when I was in college and I was learning Mandarin Chinese, we had a professor from China visiting professor from China every year and they would have two year contracts as well and they would be part of our.00:18:27XochitlUh, class structure and I think it was really important because they brought cultural knowledge, cultural components. They brought expressions that were only used that like our professor, who wasn't Chinese, wouldn't have like, really known. Like, he's still completely fluent Chinese. You know what I mean? But he still wouldn't have had that cultural component.00:18:48XochitlAs he didn't grow up in the culture, even though he had lived abroad, even though he spoke perfect Chinese, he was lacking those cultural components that we got and appreciated so much from the visiting professor from.00:19:02XochitlI know.00:19:04JackYeah, that's a good point that that's a great point, yeah.00:19:04XochitlAnd.00:19:09XochitlSo I'm hoping I'm hoping that there will still be institutions that value that you know because, you know, I'm kind of thinking about getting back into the ESL game. I mean, I'm, I'm still in it. I haven't loved it because we do the podcast and we have the English corner. But just getting back into it as a full time job just because.00:19:15발표자Yeah.00:19:30XochitlWe we talked about this many times before, but you know, a job in Korea is like life in a bottle and there's so many benefits that are hard to come by in a job in the.00:19:38XochitlThat's like great healthcare, the pension things that are just kind of becoming obsolete as benefits in any position in the US, whether it be entry level or even further up the ladder. It's like those kind of benefits were for Gen. X's and older and you can't get them really anymore as a.00:19:58XochitlMillennial or Gen. Z entering the workforce. And so I think that's something that's very attractive to me as someone looking to.00:20:07XochitlGo back to teach English. You know, full time in a foreign country. There are so many benefits that would be hard to come by here.00:20:16발표자Yep.00:20:17XochitlAnd yeah, so it's definitely something that I'm interested in. And so I'm hoping that that aspect, the cultural aspect and the the aspects of language that can't be replicated through. I I'm hoping this.00:20:28XochitlWill still be valued.00:20:30XochitlYeah, I can keep a job, you know.00:20:33JackYeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and I think that you might be right. You know what? Because we do the idiom Academy. I mean, how are you going to? How are you going to explain how is AI going to understand the all the nuances of the of the language when you know and translate it in a way that's going to capture the nuance?00:20:51JackYou know, a lot of the times when I explain an idiom or a phrasal verb meaning to a student, I have to explain the context of like the culture and say like well, in American culture we do this. And so because we do this, we say this.00:21:08JackAnd because, uh, this thing that we do kind of relates to what you're trying to describe, you know, metaphorically we we say this, but I mean that's a lot that's a lot of that's a that's a lot of frog leaping from.00:21:08XochitlYep.00:21:28JackThe actual you know expression to the meaning and I'm not sure the. I'm not sure that there's any AI or at least right now any any translation device that's able to really cap.00:21:43JackSure. You know specifically the nuance of the of the meaning or the context of the meaning necessarily and that might be the thing that saves us, is that, yeah, the culture that that you're, you're not just teaching the language, you're teaching the culture and the two are.00:21:57XochitlHopefully.00:22:05JackAre kind of woven together like a like a rug. You know, it's you can't separate them.00:22:12XochitlThere's a a language is just a rich tapestry that weaves together so many things. It's it includes culture, history, expressions and so much of language is also physical. Like there's so many gestures that are unique to, you know, different countries and different languages, like in in Spanish.00:22:32XochitlIn Mexico specifically, I don't know about other Spanish speaking countries, but when we're agreeing with someone while they're talking, a lot of times you like replicate and head nod with your index finger. And so when foreigners see that, they're like, what is that gesture to explain. Ohh. They're agreeing with them, but they don't want to interrupt or whatever. So they're.00:22:47JackYeah. Yes.00:22:52XochitlYou know, and similar like in Korean culture. When you hand things to an elder, you use both hands, cause that's respectful. There's so many tiny nuances, I think it would take it's.00:23:00발표자Yeah.00:23:04XochitlTo take at least another like 100 years for AI to get all of that down, I think so.00:23:10JackI hope so. Yeah, that would be great. That would give me enough time, plenty of time to finish my career at the same institution.00:23:13발표자Yes.00:23:22JackYeah, I mean I that that is that's the. That's the counterpoint. I mean that that, you know, I think in for simple sentences and easy stuff it's going to be the translation tools are good. But when it comes to.00:23:35JackThe you know the the particular, you know, context and the nuances, I don't know if there's any AI that can really capture that properly. And so yeah, that may be the the one saving grace for for our jobs.00:23:56발표자Yeah.00:23:56XochitlYeah, well, let's hope that it is, and I'm curious to hear from our students this time. I really, really want to know what you guys think about the future of ESL, because you guys are.00:24:09XochitlStudents of you know English as a foreign language. A lot of you guys are in our English corner. Which shameless plug here. Our English corner runs Monday through Friday for an hour a day and we have a lot of. We have a lot of discussions like this. This may actually be an interesting discussion to posit in English corner. Actually I'm I'm very curious to know what you guys think.00:24:25JackYeah.00:24:31XochitlSo make sure you leave us a comment down below at 8 OS englishpodcast.com shoot us an e-mail at podcast@gmail.com Jack and I really love to get your emails and make sure you join the WhatsApp and we took group to join the conversation. And again, if you're interested in our.00:24:47XochitlEnglish corner. Make sure that you message Jack or I or the A-Z English broadcast only chat or WhatsApp and we will make sure to get back to you with more information about that and I'll see.00:24:56XochitlYou next time. Bye bye.00:24:58JackBye.Podcast Website:Topic Talk | The Future of ESL – A to Z English (atozenglishpodcast.com)Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok: @atozenglish1Instagram: @atozenglish22Twitter: @atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Debora by Jangwahttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Dilating_Times/single/debora/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

可以搜索公号【璐璐的英文小酒馆】或者添加【luluxjg2】咨询课程or加入社群，查看文稿和其他精彩内容哦~ 人物介绍：Matteo, wine expert from Italy and the senior manager in sales & marketing at the largest wine importer in China; has extensive experience in the wine industry in promoting Italian wines.Daisy, expert in brand promotion specializing in creating demands for foreign brands.Keywords l Introduction and backgrounds of the guestsl Current state of prosecco in the Chinese market.l What factors have contributed to the growing popularity of prosecco in China in recent years? Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the show. Today we have in our studio two special guests, one of them you may still remember from our previous episodes on Prosecco. So Matteo is from Italy. He's a wine expert and the senior manager in sales & marketing at the largest wine importer in China. He has extensive experience in the wine industry in promoting Italian wines, including prosecco in China as well. Now another interesting fact is that he himself is from Veneto as some of you might know, that's one of the prosecco regions; and another guest, new guest, Daisy, she is an expert in brand promotion specializing in creating demands for foreign brands. Welcome to the show Matteo, Daisy. Hi, Lulu. Hi Lulu.I know I've introduced both of you, but could you also give our audience a little bit of introduction about what you're doing right now, your background? Daisy, would you like to start.Sure. My name is Daisy. I am the founder of a company that creates demand for foreign brands in China. I was born in Hong Kong and educated in Spain, the UK, the Netherlands and China.So I would say I have a pretty deep understanding of why and what consumer buy in the China market being Chinese myself. And we've worked across different industries mainly in F&B (food and beverage). We work with big consumer brands, global brands. We also work with independent producers and also restaurants and bars and whatnot. So I would say that our understanding of the wine and prosecco market, it's more psychology focused and also more broad.That's exactly the sort of insights we're looking for. Okay. Thank you, Daisy. And Matteo, please.Hi lulu. Hi Daisy. Hi everyone. My name is Matteo. I work in China right now, I've worked in this business for 22 years. I've done everything from farming, planting vines, selling wines, passing through production, distribution, importation; I work in F&B as well, of course marketing, sales, worked in Italy restaurant, I worked in different countries and cities like New York, Buenos Aires, Argentina, Dubai, Maldives, Shanghai now. So I think I know one or two things in wine industry.I'm sure you're being modest by saying one or two things.All right, let's dive right into your impressions of the current state of prosecco in the Chinese market. I'll direct this question to Matteo first because you obviously work directly in the wine industry.Yes, current state of prosecco in Chinese market is it's a product that satisfies a wide range of palates in the situation where people don't want to spend money on expensive stuff, including F&B, that's something I have to say.Mhm.They tend to see good price per value products. And prosecco actually falls into this category. So people still want to drink, they basically go for, let's say more friendly choices definitely. We may also take into consideration that not many people in China drink prosecco, so the per capita consumption is really low, I saw some data saying that 30 million drink imported wines at least once a month in China, which is little.The per capita consumption is 0.6,0.8Yeah.

Welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast, where we delve into the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the art of mastering the surf. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Matt Parker from Album Surf to discuss the intricacies of surfboard shaping, the evolution of surf culture, and the joys of riding different types of boards.Matt Parker is a seasoned surfer and shaper from Southern California who started crafting surfboards in his garage in 2001. Now, Album Surf is one of the largest surfboard companies, known for its diverse range of high-quality boards. Matt's philosophy on surfboard design emphasizes the harmonious blend of curves and how they interact with the water, aiming to make every board feel like an extension of the surfer's feet and mind. Episode Highlights:The Origins of Album Surf: Matt shares how he started shaping surfboards in his garage in 2001 and grew Album Surf into a renowned company.Philosophy of Surfboard Design: Discussing his unique approach to shaping, Matt explains the importance of creating boards that blend seamlessly with the water.Surfing in Southern California vs. New Zealand: A comparison of surf conditions and the surfing culture in these two iconic locations.The Evolution of Surfboard Variety: Exploring the trend of surfers, including professionals, moving away from high-performance shortboards to experimenting with various types of boards.Educational Insights: Michael and Matt discuss the importance of riding different boards to improve surfing skills and the misconceptions many surfers have about the type of board they should use.Personal Anecdotes and Experiences: Matt and Michael share personal stories about their favorite boards and memorable surfing experiences.Key Quotes:"The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet and your mind." - Matt Parker"Are you actually having fun? That's what it should be about, not just projecting competency and coolness in the lineup." - Matt Parker"It's the best time to be alive as a surfer because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past." - Matt ParkerFollow Matt Parker:Instagram: @albumsurfLinkedin: matt-parker-7877a17Website: albumsurf.comDon't forget to visit our new website for a free PDF download outlining Michael's top five insights from the show, and reach out if you know anyone at YouTube to help resolve access issues!Enjoy the episode and happy surfing!Full Show Transcript:Matt Parker- Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's guest is Matt Parker from album serf. But before we get into that, a couple of housekeeping items. Firstly, Serf Mastery has a new website, and included on that on the front page is a free PDF download outlining my top five insights from the show and the last eight years or so of focusing on improving my own surfing. Um, so go ahead and download that puppy. Also, does anyone know anyone on YouTube? I have been denied access to my YouTube account and have exhausted all other avenues and have had a dead end. So if anyone knows anyone at YouTube, please reach out. Mike at Serf mastery.com or you can DM me on Instagram as well. Onto the show. Today's guest, like I said, is Matt Parker from album surf. Matt is a surfer from Southern California, and he started shaping surfboards from his garage back in 2001. And now album surf is one of the largest, uh, surfboard companies around. Uh, they specialize in all types of boards. And let me read a little quote from Matt's website, which sort of summarizes the way he thinks about surfboards. This is a quote from Matt. The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet. And your mind is so interesting. There shouldn't be any rules about what a surfboard looks like. I love that quote and you would have seen there's so many pros that when they aren't surfing on tour, they end up on these boards, including one of my favorite surfers of all time, Margo. Yes, one of the best free surfers around. Brendan Marginson is well worth a follow on Instagram as well. He started writing Matt's boards. Anyway, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Matt Parker from album surf. Com two.Matt Parker- How are things? Uh, how are things in New Zealand?Michael Frampton - Are things going swimmingly?Matt Parker- Always there. So you live in the prettiest place on Earth. How could it not?Michael Frampton - Oh, yeah. You're not wrong. Although I have to admit, I do miss California.Matt Parker- Did you have spent time out here before you lived here or just.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I lived in, uh, I lived in Point Dume Malibu for four years. Oh, cool. So I was obviously in a little bit of a bubble surfing Little doom every day, but, uh, you know, the weather, the weather alone in Southern California, I kind of felt like it was a bit monotonous. After four years there, I almost missed winter. But having come back to New Zealand and actually experiencing the four seasons, I take California any day.Matt Parker- Yeah, it's big news. When it rains here. It's like, yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, no one can drive in the rain in California.Matt Parker- No. Definitely not, definitely not.Michael Frampton - And then, of course you can't. Well, you're not supposed to go in the water either.Matt Parker- Uh, so. So whereabouts in New Zealand? What part are you at? Like, where do you surf at and all that?Michael Frampton - I'm in a place called Hawkes Bay, which is on the east coast of the North Island. There's nowhere really famous surf wise around here. The surf is pretty average around here, actually. We have a mass. Uh, continental shelf. So the swell comes in with a, uh, just with almost no energy left in it unless it's a certain period that seems to sneak through. Um, so, yeah, around here is not so good for surfing, to be honest. I came back here to, you know, raise the kids and I think, yeah, that sort of thing.Matt Parker- But there's pretty drivable though, right? I mean, you can get. Oh yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know if you're willing to drive um then yeah you can get waves, probably get good waves almost every day. Uh, in New Zealand actually, if you're willing to drive and put up with a little bit of weather.Matt Parker- Mhm. Not afraid of a little wind. Right. Find the blowing the right way. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Well that's another big thing is I remember in Southern California so many days there's just no wind.Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - Where you don't really get that in New Zealand maybe the first two hours of the day there's not much wind, but you'd never get a day where it's glassy until midday, like in Southern California. That's rare here.Matt Parker- Yeah. That's like the prototypical dreamy Southern California fall day where it's kind of glass a little bit offshore in the morning and kind of glassy and nice and sunny and warm all day with fun combo swells. That's kind of the ideal. It's like that a lot. I'm down in San Clemente. It's pretty clean down here, too. We live like a little valley, kind of, uh, that kind of keeps the wind cleaner here. I don't know if it's just protected a little bit from some of the, you know, more beach break spots up in Huntington and Newport, all those spots. But, um.Michael Frampton - Yeah. No, I, I've spent a little bit of time down your way as well. The Surf lowered and I got to interview Archie on my way down there and I spent some time, um, I love surfing Swami's and just that whole Encinitas area. Spent some time down there?Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - And, uh, what opened? Part of what I wanted to talk about today was, obviously surfboards. But I remember we interviewed Devon Howard, and so I got to surf with Devon and I was surfing this like it was a Stu Jensen 94. And I would just paddle. I would just paddle right out the back as far as you can at Little Doom and surf it like Sarno, almost just catch the swell and just get long, big sweeping rides. And Devon's like, you should just be on a glider. And I was like, what's a glider? And then so I just, I just went out and bought an 11 foot Josh Hall, and that's pretty much all I surf all of the time.Matt Parker- Even further out. You weren't even like another hundred yards out would catch it even out the back. Yeah. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Yeah. And then I'm always swapping around boards. But that 11 foot board just taught me so much about surfing. Just the sheer volume and weight and size of the board. Just you have to think about reading the waves so differently and about you know, your the space around you with other people so differently. And then when you finally do jump back on a board, a short board or whatever, I found it so much easier and more fun and easier to sort of be present after having learnt how to surf such a big surfboard. Yo. Have you experienced anything similar with playing around with lots of different boards?Matt Parker- Yeah, I, um, I, obviously I make boards and so I'm always writing something different. You know, most of the time it's rare that I ride the same board two days in a row. Um, and so I'm very used to, like the initial paddle out where, um, I, I can't try too hard, you know what I mean? I kind of have to just. Feel what the board is going to do and just kind of be open to what it feels like once I'm dropping in and just kind of riding the wave. And so it makes me, um, yeah, it's just a good little lesson every time because you can't, you can't force it. And so, uh, you remain a little bit relaxed and not try to do too much, and then you kind of feel it out in every wave is kind of like a you're learning a little bit more about what the board wants to do and what line it wants to take, and trying to figure out where the gas pedal is. And, and, uh, so that's like the discovery part of surfing for me because I surf, I tend to surf the same place every day. And it's a point break down near, uh, lowers and it's kind of a similar wave, but it's kind of a sectional point break that offers some variety. But it's the same place. You know, I'm surfing in the same spot all the time. And so the variety of boards, um, just kind of changes up. Um, it kind of removes expectations sometimes. I think sometimes if you have a board, you've written a ton and you're kind of like, oh, this is the kind of surfing I want to go do. And these are the, you know, these are the turns I'm going to do or whatever. And when you're surfing a little bit more blind to what the board is going to allow you to do, it just kind of, um, keeps you from having expectations. And then you're kind of, uh, you just find fun in different ways and new experiences every time you surf.Michael Frampton - So I think that really good top level surfers are doing that on a much more refined and accurate level because they're always so close to where the wave is breaking. There's so much in the source and they're feeling all those little bumps and nooks and obviously those sorts of boards at that speed are ridiculously sensitive. So if they're not tuned in to that, it's just not going to happen. Whereas you and I are surfing bigger boards a little further away from the power source, we kind of can get away with not being tuned in, but when we do, they're aware.Matt Parker- Yeah, their awareness level is so next level, so high. I like the little nuances and they can feel a lot of they can and can't always communicate verbally, but they definitely know what they're feeling and experiencing in a different way than most regular people.Michael Frampton - Yeah. You know, what I found that's really [00:10:00] interesting is, all of the pros, well, not all of them. A lot of the pros, when you see them out free surfing or when they take a break off tour, then they're not riding high performance shortboards. You know, Josh Kerr is a great example. Um, you know, even Steph Gilmore and Kelly Slater with fire waves just riding different boards as soon as there's not a camera and a judge looking at them, they're like, I'm on this board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down to the local beach and it's waist high and onshore and it's 11 seconds and there's people out there on toothpicks pumping and getting angry. But the pro even the pros when they're surfing good waves, they're not on those high performance short boards. Are you seeing a similar trend overall in Southern California?Matt Parker- Uh, yeah. I mean, well, specifically with everybody that all the, all the guys and gals I make boards for. But no, no one that rides for us really does contest surfing. Most everyone is just kind of free surfing. And so they're definitely on the track of surfing, whatever feels good and experiencing a lot of different things. But yeah, Josh is a perfect example. I don't think he's touched a thruster since his last heat up pipe, honestly, when he retired and that was probably five years ago or something like that. Even in good waves and every kind of wave, whether he's in Indo or wherever it is, he's always writing something different. And uh, I think obviously like high performance shortboards surf. Amazing. We all love to watch surfing. We love watching contests and, you know, the sport of it all. It's always exciting and entertaining and all that. But I think that type of board, um, directs you to one type of surfing. There's, you know, like everyone's trying to kind of surf the ideal way that that board kind of pushes you to. And the judging and the contest structure is kind of, um, positioned around that ideal as well. So I think, um, when you remove that, that box that you're trying to operate in and you don't have to do the same turns and all that, you know, you're just freed up to do whatever you want to do. That's always going to be a more fun option. And for me personally, I am someone who makes boards, it's true. That's my favorite thing, is to see, uh, people that can surf at a world class level, see them surf a lot of different boards and see the different places those boards can go when it's put under the feet of very, very talented people. Because, um, because for the most part, you know, the most, most of the surf media, the most surf contests, you see these very high level surfers riding very similar type of equipment. So.Michael Frampton - Um, yeah, I've always had this analogy in terms of car racing, whereas the pros in a contest, they're in a finely tuned formula one that's customized for their style. Right. And then for some reason, we want to go race around the local racetrack, and we think we need to be in one of those cars. And yeah, sure, that when the average driver is in a high performance car, yes, you can drive it around the track, but man, it's going to be bumpy. It's going to be shaking if you're not constantly turning the car. It's just not going to be as fun as getting in a V8 supercar that's nowhere near as fast or fine tuned, but is a little more. It's got a little more given it still goes fast. So that's what I'm wondering. You see these pros, when they're surfing outside of the contest, they don't necessarily want to be in a finely tuned formula one. They just want to be in a V8 supercar and just have a little less pressure and a little more give. How does that analogy stack up for you? The car racing one?Matt Parker- Well, I like to me surfing really is about the feeling, right? And like the tactile feeling of driving a car that's fast and that wants to go and that you're feeling it. And there's a little bit of like, uh, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to crash right away, you know, like a regular driver. If they went behind the F1 car, they're probably going to crash pretty quick because they just can't handle it. Right. It's too technical to drive all that kind of stuff. So you get into something that has a better feel. But it is about the feeling. And you know, ultimately that's what we're chasing every time we surf. That's why we want to get another wave, is because you want to get that feeling again. And uh, and so the same with the pros that can surf at the highest level. You know, they're chasing the feeling the contest is like the job side of it. You know, it's ticking the box I feel in to win and do all that. But if they're freed from that, they're chasing the feeling of going fast and finding a tube and not having to fit in as many turns as they as they need to just to get the score, but to actually do the turn where the wave is, allowing them to or not, or just ride the wave.Michael Frampton - So that makes sense. Well, yeah, because I'm always dumbfounded when you see so many surfers spending so much time and money on taking these high performances. You know, they watch stab in the dark and they want to buy the latest version of the ten short boards that they already own. It really doesn't make much sense to me. And I think things are changing, but there certainly is still a large percentage of surfers that fit in that category. Uh, do you think it's trending the other way with companies like yourself and even, you know, Channel Islands are broadening their range of boards? Um, I.Matt Parker- Think it's for me, it definitely is the best time to be alive, to be a surfer, because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past, and you really can ride anything. When I was when I was young, as a teenager in the 90s, surfing, it really was you. Everyone kind of had the same board. I rode the same board, no matter the conditions. It was like a six, three, 18.5, two and a quarter rockered out shortboard no matter what. If it was one foot, if it was six foot, whatever. So nowadays you really do like I think everyone's kind of experienced like, oh yeah, I can have a little bit more of a diverse quiver and it's okay if I'm riding a fish one day or I'm riding like a little stretched out worm another day, or if I'm riding a shortboard one day or whatever, it's like there's a little bit more, um, versatility and variety and, um, so it's a it's a great time to be alive, to be a surfer in that way. I think, um, uh, I just think that, yeah, there's just less rules, less rules about it, more enjoyment.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. I guess the question is, the impetus of the show is education and inspiration for better surfing, really. And I guess when I take on a client myself personally, um, one of the first things I say to them is like, why do you want to? Why are you on that board? Like, this isn't you're not surfing double overhead barrels. Like that's what their board's made for. Like just try.Matt Parker- Yeah, I think I've said this before, but I think a lot of, um, uh, just the culture of surfing is a little bit like, no, everyone wants to look competent. Right. And so a lot, a lot of surfing culture is the perception that you put out there. Right? Like, I'm the cool guy. I got the right board, I got I'm not a kook, you know, I'm wearing the right trunk. So I've got the right wetsuit and I've got the right traction pad and whatever it is, I've got the cool label. This is what I'm, you know, because a lot of people are more concerned with what, how others perceive them in the lineup, because sometimes, you know, how you're perceived in the lineup, gives you status and gives you, you know, if you're competent, you can kind of you get more waves and you get a little bit more respect from people around you. And so there's a little bit of a game that people play in trying to, um, project competency and cool and a cool factor. And I'm not a kook. And so sometimes people put too much weight on that and they're more concerned with what they look like on the beach or in the car park than they actually are.Matt Parker- And then the enjoyment they're actually getting out of it themselves, you know, like, are you actually having fun? If you mentioned like the guys that are flapping around and having a miserable time. There's always people out in the water that are having you kind of wonder sometimes. Do you actually like, what are you actually getting out of this? Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And, uh, I don't know, every different stroke for different folks. People get different things out of it. And maybe that little social status thing is more important than the actual surfing. And I, I think that's obviously short term thinking because and it's like, that's a hollow chase that you're after because you're never going to be satisfied with that. And you shouldn't be. I don't think you should be spending too much time pursuing things for the approval of others. You know, surfing is kind of a solitary pursuit, right? You're you're the one that's doing it, and you're the one that's riding the wave, and you're the one that's having that moment and feeling it. If you're doing it for what other people think about you, I think you're missing. You're missing the point, you know?Michael Frampton - So, yeah, well, I definitely fit it in that category for a while. Um, we all do.Matt Parker- At some point, you know, in a little bit. We all do. You know everyone? No. Like I said, everybody who surfs wants to look competent. Kelly Slater doesn't want to be a kook. He wants to be the cool guy in the lineup. We all kind of have that feeling to a certain degree.Michael Frampton - Um, and there's something to be said, you know, surfing that high performance shortboard in all types of conditions you will develop a very intimate relationship with that surfboard. And when the waves do turn on, you're going to be pretty used to it. And then, you know, you're probably going to have a better surf on that day. Um, but was there a point in your surfing [00:20:00] life where that changed, like where you started riding different boards, more volume, etc.?Matt Parker- Um, yeah. Like I said, I grew up in the like, I started surfing in the late 80s, early, and then through the 90s, I was a teenager and then in the early 90s and, uh, back then it was really about just being competent enough and you just riding what everybody else wrote. And that was really all that was available was just kind of your standard shortboards for, um, I guess for, for me as, like a general public, you know, not in, you know, I didn't have any my dad surfed a little bit when he was young, but I didn't I didn't come from like a long line of family surfing and all that kind of stuff. And so probably I, I started getting curious, more curious about surfboards. Um, and that's kind of what led me into shaping a little bit is that I was interested. I, you know, you get back then this is pre-internet really, you know, but you would get little. To see different little videos. You'd see different things that were just like, oh, you know, like, that looks fun. That looks like more fun. I was surfing Newport Beach. It's two foot closeouts most of the time it's not good. It's, you know, it's hard. Like surfing is hard out there and you're riding equipment that's bad.Matt Parker- So you just have a lot of frustrating sessions and you just like, just gotta, you know, just you would see videos, you'd see guys in good waves. And so that was always like I was interested in, um, trying different boards to get a different experience. You know, I was competent enough, but I was by no means pro or anything like that. I was good enough out in the lineup to get waves and to surf and fine, but it was not. But I always felt like those boards held me back, too, you know, just the normal boards, because they kind of, you know, they you just have like, it can't be this frustrating all the time. So the interest in different boards. So I would go to different shops and I would want to get a board that was different and I could never really find one. You know, it can never really find what I was looking for. And then, um, even when I would order custom boards, you know, from local shapers, you would try to explain what I had in my brain, what I was like trying to go for. And it was never it never like it was probably my fault for not communicating that clearly what I was really after, but it never was it.Matt Parker- And so I was, uh, in design school and art school and taking all these like, sculpture and drawing and painting classes and stuff. And so it was just kind of a natural extension to get a blank and some tools and kind of experiment and just try to make something without any restrictions of what it had to look like, because I was just fooling around, you know. So that was probably the, the, the interest. And that was probably at the time when, like, um, things were coming more online and you had more access to just different things other people were doing. And so you could kind of see, uh, you know, your world was kind of opened up as far as, like, oh, there's like other shapers and all these places making different things. And there are a lot of cool things out there that I just hadn't really experienced and I didn't have. I had never tried or felt or seen in person, but like, it just kind of expanded what was possible. And, the interest level and surfing really grew. And my fun level expanded too, because it was like everything was opened up more.Michael Frampton - Um, and then it sounds like the developer or the birth of album surfboards was quite organic. You saw essentially a gap in the market, right?Matt Parker- Yeah. Why? Initially, for years I was shaping boards with no, no intention of it being a thing, being a business or anything. It was more I just wanted to try different things. And, um, the creation, the creation part of it was really fun, like just designing and trying something and the tactile thing of making something with your hands and then seeing it finished and then going and writing it was very addicting. It was very, um, yeah, just kind of opened my mind a lot. And it was just it's just it made, um, the exploration process of trying different boards, satisfying even if the surf was bad. So in the old days, you know, as a kid when I was a teenager and you're trying to just, like, do all the moves you see in the videos and you're having frustrating sessions because the waves aren't good most of the time, and you're writing boards that aren't good. You just surfing wasn't as fun. And so when I was, when I was making boards and exploring and trying these different types of shapes, just going out and seeing that it worked and making it like get down the line and get the feeling of speed that I was kind of envisioning with it was satisfying.Matt Parker- So the waves didn't have to be good, and my surfing didn't have to be amazing. And I was still, like, very satisfied and validated and surf stoked. I was inspired to go make another board and surf more because I wanted to try out these things that I was, um, that I was playing around with, but. I did that for years. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand boards before it was even, like a real, um, business I was doing. I was a designer by trade, and so I was doing like graphic design work, and that was kind of what my, uh, employment or job focus was, and was making boards was like this side, this just kind of creative art project on the side that I could just have fun with and I could usually like, um, sell, sell one to pay for another one and, you know, find it, you know, put it up like in the used rack at a shop and sell it on consignment. Just turn it over enough to learn the craft without any pressure of having to be a professional at doing it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. So. So did your entrepreneurial journey begin with the album agency?Matt Parker- Yeah, exactly. So that was I was running my own business and just doing client work, client design work that way. And um, the building the surfboards and kind of treating it like my own little micro brand was kind of also an extension of the graphic design side. So I was able to kind of like, you know, you're doing you're doing work on for clients in industries that you're not really interested in, you know, and I was like, here's, here's a chance for me to play around with design and create it and kind of like make this a fun little, like. You know, brand for fun without any, you know, strings attached. Yeah. That's pretty.Michael Frampton - And what inspired you to make the leap? To turn the surfboards into the main business?Matt Parker- Uh, there was just, uh. Well, I was doing it at night, so I would be working, like, in the day, like client work and, um, uh, designing and and, uh, getting projects done. And then I'd go home and have dinner with the family and then put the little kids to bed and go in my garage or go in my backyard and shape at night. And I was doing this a lot. So I was working a lot. I was working a full time plus job and then shaping on the side and demanding just kind of like, you know, we're just kind of we would get out, you know, I was making boards that were probably interesting and that resonated with other people that they hadn't seen either. And there was something unique about what we were doing. And so, um, the age of when we are, you know, in this last 15 years where things are just more accessible and people can find you easier, you know, it just kind of the awareness of what I was doing got out there probably faster than if it was 30 years ago. No, the people in my little community would have known. But then. So then people would just want to order a board, and then that just kind of gets to this, uh, point where, uh, the demand kind of exceeds like the time on the other side. And so just kind of realized like, oh, there's, uh, I think and by that point, too, I had made enough boards and had enough awareness of, like, just the surf industry and kind of where things, where things were that you could kind of see opportunities, uh, or openings in the market. And like, here we have something different to say, and there's people that are interested in what we're doing. So yeah, let's make a little run at it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Well you mentioned supply and demand. I mean that is why business exists. So obviously the culture is changing. You know, people are more interested in, uh, you know, different shapes. And, uh, I would say a higher level of longevity. You get a much more longevity out of a surfboard like yours as opposed to a pop out, um, white shortboard for sure.Matt Parker- I think the other thing, too, was I made boards. I made some boards for some good surfers, some pros and things like that, and they worked really well. And so there was kind of like this validation of like, oh, okay. Like, I mean, I knew like I was like I said, I was competent enough to know that they worked for my level of surfing, and I was having an amazing time at having fun. And my friends were. But then, um, when you when I made some boards for guys that could surf really well, and then they had more fun on that too. It was kind of like, oh, you know, maybe there really is something a little different that we're doing that does work and makes sense of like we should kind of should follow that path because there's, there's something there that hasn't been tapped into yet, and it resonates with guys that can surf at the highest level. So we should kind of pursue that.Michael Frampton - Um, that leads me into a question I have about let's get into your designs a little bit. So. I remember I first got into surfing fish surfboards. I had a Christiansen fish that I used to surf a lot. And then I remember one day the waves turned [00:30:00] on, um, and rising swell. And next thing, next thing you know, I'm surfing almost double overhead waves. And I find man to to be able to surf that fish in those real good solid waves, I would have to move my feet closer to the inside rail to do a bottom turn, and then I go up to do a top turn. It would just slide outside. This is not the right surfboard, but at the same time, I don't want to be surfing a high performance shortboard. And then you look at someone like Josh Kerr surfing the twins men or the, um, insanity. I think it is in the mentor wise in double overhead waves getting barreled and doing airs on what is, I guess, hybrid or alternative high performance shape. Now, is that the kind of board that only he can ride in those waves? Or is it designed so that anyone can have a good time in those overseas waves?Matt Parker- Well, I think there's a misnomer to me, there was always a misnomer in the marketplace that high performance shortboards are for like real surfing and alternative boards are just, you know, for fun or whatever. And, um, I think if you look at the trajectory of surf of surfboards from, you know, longboards logs up into the early 60s, mid 60s to how quickly it progressed and revolutionized, like what people were riding in such a short window of time. There's so many, um, like, design steps along the way and different types of boards along the way that, like, didn't get their full, uh, fleshing out. Right. So there's a lot of ideas in that time and I, I mean, Twin Fins is a perfect example of that. Like where twin fins were really at like their height from, you know, 78 to 81 or something like that, or, you know, 77, like, what is it, 3 or 4 years or something like that, where twin fins were like the, you know, high performance little hot dog board that people were riding and that was with kind of like, I mean, nowadays, like that window of time is a is a blink, you know, three years. It's like most of us have boards that we've surfed for five, six, eight years. You know what I mean? So three years is nothing. And so, you know, you just see like, oh, the fins they were writing, they didn't have enough time to develop the right fins for them, and they didn't have enough time to think about fin placement and, and designing the rail shape and bottom contour to fit like where that goes and like what type of wave that needs to be surfed in and what blanks were available and different glassing, you know, layups and all that.Matt Parker- It was just like it was just too fast. And so, um, I've always felt like, um, alternative boards, twin fins are not, um, like a, a cop out of, like, I'm just I'm just going to screw around. Like, it's like any sort of design, any, any, any place. I'm going to take a surfboard. There's like an intended, uh, performance or design intention for that concept. And so the concept is meant to perform at a high level. It's just a different way of doing it. And um, and so like with Josh, those boards, like he has more fun and more freedom, more speed, they're easier to turn on a twin fin, you know, and so if you can make them and design it to be able to handle any type of wave, there's there's certainly obviously capable and validated by him and others in those types of waves. And so it's it's just a matter of, um, uh, backing it, backing the concept and then proving the concept and then iterating the idea and the concept enough to prove it out and refine it and get it right so that it actually does work in those types of ways.Matt Parker- But I think sometimes when, uh, like, uh, you know, shapers or whatever, if, if they're focused on one thing, if they're focused on high performance shortboards, their version of a twin fin or a fish is like a is not the main design intention. It's almost like a little, it's like a spin off of their shortboard idea. And it's like they take their shortboard idea and they kind of fatten it a little bit and just put two fins in it instead of three and, you know, maybe make it a swallowtail. We'll call it the alternative board. And to me, I'm more focused on the concept of a high performance swim fin that maybe surfs better or is more of an advantage than a shortboard would be in those waves. And so it's like, how would I design it? Where do the fins go? What does that mean for the bottom contour? Like what dimensions are we talking about. You know, and so there's so like the funnest thing about surfing is there's so many variables in the, in the types of waves in the swell and the wind conditions and the interval and the where you're surfing, the type of surfing you want to do. And so there's kind of like these endless rabbit holes of design and conceptual thinking. You can go down and create whatever. And it's so fun too, because I mean, I think surfers should be, should be very grateful and realize how fortunate that we all are.Michael Frampton - That we we we.Matt Parker- Um, participate in this pursuit where we can make all sorts of different things all the time. I mean, if you're like, if you're driving or you're, uh, skiing or whatever it is, it's much more difficult to you're not going you're not going to go make a, a ten different concepts of skis that you're going to go try out every time, every different time you go surfing. But with the surfboards you can make, you know, I can go surf today, have a session out there, get the pros and cons of the Board of Writing. I come back to design something based on that idea, shape it that day, gloss it, and be surfing something next week.Michael Frampton - Mm.Matt Parker- Something that I was intending to design for. That's just like a, it's just a cool thing that we're, we all kind of. And surfing small enough surf industry is small enough that if you're, uh, uh, motivated like you can have access to any of that, it's relatively, you know, for what that is for the for the, uh, access to that kind of R&D and design like options for different types of boards. It's relatively expensive, not super cost prohibitive. You know, if you're if you're into it, if you're committed to it, it's affordable enough. You can, you know.Michael Frampton - Mhm. Yeah I think the importance of a quiver is. Yeah I mean I don't know whether that's why you chose the name album. But you know it makes me think of a good album like Pearl jam ten which is ten really good songs, all with different moods but still the same album. You know, you can sit, you can sit down and listen to the album, or you can sit down and listen to one song and I almost see a. A surfboard quiver is like that. It's, you know, has ten surfboards that are for you, but for the different types of moods and the waves that you're surfing. But it does make me think, because there's also that Swiss Army knife surfboard that kind of does pretty good in most waves and tends to excel in sort of head high. Good waves, for sure. What's that? What's that surfboard for you within your quiver? What would that Swiss army knife board be?Matt Parker- Well, that would probably be like a board I would travel with. Right. Because you're something that you would have that you'd want to have, um, versatility for. And that would probably be like Victor's model. Like a banana. Bunches like a quad, asymmetrical quad. It's kind of a hybrid. It's definitely a performance board, but it definitely is easier to go fast. And it paddles a little bit better. And it turns out to be super easy. And it's versatile in a lot of kinds of ways. Um, it's probably something like that. Um, honestly, uh, if you have the right mindset, though, almost any board in your quiver should be able to fill that slot, I think.Michael Frampton - Yeah, that's a good point.Matt Parker- Yep. It's all I mean, there's a to me there's there's, um, you know, there's sometimes there's people sometimes we all do it where we're no matter what board you're surfing, people try to surf the same way. Right. They have like they're the way I bought them turned. This is my turn. I do, and this is my little re-entry idea. And you'll watch them out there. And it doesn't matter if they're riding their fish or mid length or short board or whatever it is, they kind of surf the same. And uh, that's fine. That's totally fine. But I, I think it's good to, um, be a little bit more open to what the board wants to do and the type of surfing that board is going to allow you to do and, and how it might open up the kind of surfing you do and the enjoyment you get out of that kind of surfing so that it makes you a little bit more versatile in what your approach is like. Victor Bernardo, who writes for us, is like is a really good example of that because I think a lot of times people when they're like when they're building a quiver, they are a little bit too narrow in scope or what like range, they're they're going for like I it happens all the time where I'll have people that they kind of they want their fish and their short board and a twin fin and everything to kind of be all within, like a little volume range, like, here's my leader, here's the leader I [00:40:00] ride, and my boards need to be within 30 to 30 1.5l.Matt Parker- And they try to fit like all their boards. And it's like, I think you're missing out if you're thinking about it in that way. So Victor is this perfect example because he's a young man, 26, 27 years old, the highest level professional surfer can surf as well as anybody in the world. Um. Competed on the show, did all that stuff right. But if you look at his quiver, it is like. From five 0 to 8 zero and everything in between. I mean, obviously he has access to a lot of boards, which helps. It makes it easy to ride a lot of stuff. But still his mindset is like his, if you were just talking about what volume he writes, he writes from 29l to 42l, you know what I mean? So his range is like this and these are all. Different types of what I would call performance sports. So even yesterday or this week we were in Hawaii.Matt Parker- He's still there right now. But we were on the North Shore this past week and he was riding A68 bungee roundtail, which is normal. His normal version is like a five 8 or 5 nine, and he was riding the six eight roundtail version that was plus volume. It was actually one of Brendan Morrison's boards that Margo left there in Hawaii. When Margo went back to Australia, Victor took it out and got a couple amazing waves of pipe, you know, on that on that board. And so it's just I and definitely not limiting his performance, actually enhancing his performance because it was something that unique that he wouldn't have maybe taken out normally, but it just kind of opened up his surfing. And I think if you remain a little bit more, um, open, open to what the board wants to do and what the waves are asking you to do, you will just have more fun. Yeah. Surfing gets to, like you were saying, just like it started right when you're riding the glider and then you go jump onto your shore board, your surfing is better because you're kind of your fundamentals are better. Your timing is a little different. You know, your mindset is a little different.Michael Frampton - So yeah, I think every board you ride opens up. You have to read the waves a little differently and look for different lines. And like you said, your timing has to be better. Or maybe it can be more lax or you're looking for a different type of wave or whatever. So I think it really just helps you to read the ocean better. I think that's the main reason why different surfboards, uh, can improve your surfing when you jump back on your favorite board because you just read the wave with more detail. Writing that glider changed my realization of how big and how fast of a section I can actually make because those boards go ridiculously fast. Um, yeah. And I surprised myself many times with what I could, what section I could get around and that literally translated to surfing other boards. I'm going to try and make that section. I'm going to get a bit lower and stay on the whitewash a bit longer. And lo and behold, surfing that big crazy board just had me making different types of waves and changing my whole perspective on reading the ocean. Um, it sounds like I agree with that. It sounds like Victor Victor needs to go longer as well.Matt Parker- He does. He rides bigger. But I think the point of a querer is to make you surf as much as possible. So no matter what the waves are, you have the right board to have fun that day. And that's really the, to me, the thing that improves you as a surfer the most is water time. So if you're surfing a lot, if you're surfing more days than you're not, you're going to get better. You read the ocean better your time, your timing is better, your strength, your paddle strength is better. All that stuff kind of comes into play the more you surf. And so if you have a quiver that motivates you to want to surf and makes you kind of no matter what the waves are, you're like, oh, I'm stoked to go out today because I have the right board and I'm going to have more fun. And you see those guys struggling and you're having fun and they're miserable. It's like, oh yeah, you made the right choice, and you have the right board to just get out in the water a lot.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think you nailed it that that's that is the point of a quiver. So it's as simple as that. And you're right. I mean, the best thing that ultimately that you can do for your surfing is not only to surf more, but to surf more waves. And if you're on the right surfboard for the condition, you are going to catch more waves when it's knee high. Here at my local point break and there's no one out, I'm I'm literally giddy because I have an 11 foot Josh Hall and no one can compete with that because no one.Matt Parker- How did you ship that thing to New Zealand? How did you get that point there? That's what I want to know.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I know, it.Matt Parker- Just.Michael Frampton -I, I filled a container with all of my stuff. So I've got, I've got my weight, I got my weighing rich nine eight and everything. Everything here. So how. How would you if I just asked you an open question? What is a surfboard?Matt Parker- Uh, well, there's the, you know, it's foam and fiberglass and resin and all that. Right. Uh, but I think it's just it's a tool to allow you to go ride the waves. So whatever that is, it, um, comes in, comes in many forms, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, uh, depending on, you know, the a surfboard for pipeline, like we were where we were at last week is not a surfboard for Upper Trestles, where I surf most every other day. Very, very different tools for those different, different types of waves. And so I think it's a tool that gets you to, to catch a wave and ride a wave. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Simple. How would you describe your current relationship with surfing in the ocean, and how has it evolved over the years?Matt Parker- Um, I surf a lot. To me, it's the most important thing in my job as a designer and shaper and surfboard manufacturer is being in the water as much as I can. So I, I surf 5 or 6 days a week. And, uh, it's kind of a like daily ritual getting out there. And so I surf a lot. Um, I, I'm 47 now, so I'm definitely past my peak of, uh, I've my, my better my best days are behind me as far as, like strength and ability level and all that kind of stuff. But I definitely have more fun surfing now than I ever have in my life. And, uh, I get more enjoyment out of it and I have a better perspective on it. And so, um, you just appreciate different things about sessions that you, you skipped and you missed when you're young and immature. And so, you know, with age comes wisdom. And so I definitely yeah, I appreciate it. Every session I go out I just have a better mindset for, uh, just appreciating the opportunity to go out and surf. I live in a place where I have things like surf boards to ride and just waves most every day that are rideable. It's a real blessing. So I think that my mindset makes me appreciate it more now than ever. So. Mhm.Michael Frampton - Yeah I like that. What's I'm going to go back to. So we talked about the Swiss army, the single board. What if you could take what if you could choose three boards to travel with or just to have what those three boards be.Matt Parker- It's, you know it's funny we were because we're talking about quivers. Right. And I'm actually like, I, I don't have a great quiver because I don't have boards. I hold on to that long. The problem for me is that I'm always, uh, I'm always doing R&D and and working on new models and new boards. And so it's, it's ever changing. So my answer would probably be that if you asked me next month, it would probably be different than it would be a month ago. So it changes all the time. But if I was going to like where we live, going down to Mexico, go down there all the time and surf the points, I would for sure take some form of a fish. I've been riding, um, a version of Asher Pacey's Sunstone with a little hip, and I've been riding it as a quad a bunch lately, and I've been riding it with, um, twin fin like upright twin fins in the lead boxes and little small trailers and the quad trailer boxes, and been having a good old time on that, so I would definitely bring one of those. I'd probably bring a, uh, like a bigger board, like, uh, like one of Margot's models in Vesper or a Delma, which is like a stretched out, kind of like a slot channel. Concave bonds or little bottom quad. I definitely bring one of those. I can hang in good surf, too. And they're really nimble, easy to turn for a big board. I'll ride those six, 8 to 7, 2 to 7, four, seven, six. I have an 80I take out on that all the time. Um, definitely take that. And then I'd probably take something asymmetrical, some sort of a disorder model, which is like my high performance kind of like foolish rails outlines shifted and [00:50:00] or a bungee. Like I was saying, it's probably something to at least like to cover the bases. Yep.Michael Frampton - Okay, cool. I'm taking a whale shark, a Vespa and an insanity.Matt Parker- Oh that's good. That's a good call to the, uh, yeah. The whale shark would tick that glider box for you for sure. Uh, so I.Michael Frampton - Want one so bad just by reading the description. That's it. Yeah.Matt Parker- Uh.Matt Parker- When you're talking about that build up of that section and you're just in so early and you have fun for me, the fun of those boards is that kinetic energy of like, the speed building, like you build the speed and maintain the speed and build the speed some more. And it's just a very satisfying feeling. It's just me and I. We make longboards and I enjoy longboarding. But I prefer it if I'm riding a big bull like a big board. I prefer a glider for a big twin, like a whale shark. I have a little bit more fun just because I. I probably surf more off the back foot than I do in a walking and walking the nose and all that kind of stuff.Michael Frampton - So yeah. Same. Yeah. It's amazing if you, if you got your if you're used to it and you get your timing right, you can step back on an 11 foot board and do a cutback. And like it's so satisfying in the and you're right, it's the main reason the maintenance of the momentum of one of those big boards is such an incredible feeling. And it's amazing what sections you can make. And I've had some of the longest rides ever. Oh, I bet in and on what most people would seem as unmakeable waves just by taking that high line and trusting it. It's uh. Yeah, it's an incredible feeling.Matt Parker- Riding gliders is like it's own form of riding a foil board. It's like you're almost ride those boards. You ride those waves that, um, you know, no one else can really get into depth. Length of ride is insane on those. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it's, um, Joel Tudor says it's the ultimate goal, right? Is Skip Frye.Matt Parker- Oh, yeah, for sure.Michael Frampton - It's the end game.Michael Frampton -Uh, but it's, uh, I mean, I've, I've surfed that board in. I was a few years ago. We had it in Malibu. There's a little doom. There's an outer reef that breaks when you get those, those 18 second northwest swells. I took my glider out there and it was double overhead barreling, and I was like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have bought this. But I managed to get such a high line and set the rail so early that I could just avoid the barrel and still have and still catch the waves and have such a rad time. So there's such versatile boards if you know how to surf them.Matt Parker- And you're doing your own step offs.Michael Frampton - Basically.Matt Parker- Oh it is towed in out the back. Yeah. It's just like being able to paddle that fast. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Oh yeah. And that's the thing. You can pedal around so much. That's what I like about them so much too if you can see a section over there. You can just paddle over to it.Matt Parker- And that board's going to last you forever. 20 years from now, you'll still be searching roughly. You'll have that. You'll have that thing forever. Yeah. Which is special.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Was that so? Obviously it sounds like you've experienced writing. Was that the inspiration for the whale shark writing? Gliders.Matt Parker- Yeah. Just write just just because like I was saying, I'm not like I'm not a longboarder. That's walking on the nose. And you know, I'm more into just trim and glide and that feeling. And obviously you want to have a board that you can ride for us on those longboard days when it's really small and it's just soft and just little open faces. And so that was my preference was to ride that style of board. And so it was. It's just for me it's like an extension of the fish. Obviously it's taking A56 fish and making it ten six and so on. So the same kind of principle is a little bit for me. It's just putting it with a really long rail and with a different, you know, sort of rocker to fit that wave face.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. Just a side note for listeners, if you haven't written a longboard or a log, don't go out and buy a glider. It's, it's get used to a long board first because there are a lot of surfboards. And you're if you don't know how to ride them, you're just going to hurt someone.Matt Parker- You're nine. Four was a perfect little entry point.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now soft tops. I wanted to ask you about soft tips. You guys are making soft tops. I haven't seen or touched or ridden one of your soft tops, but they look quite different to the Cosco or the int style ones. What's your point of difference with soft tops?Matt Parker- We make them in a few different places. We have uh, some that we make that are like injected foam. And so it's where we actually took my shape to board and we made a mold, I shaped a few boards and we made molds off of these finished shaped boards. And that allows you to really put in design detail into that mold. And so like one of them has a little channel bottom, you can put real thin boxes in them. Um, they're obviously not high performance because they're phonies, you know what I mean? But there's a different mindset. There's the right day for that. Even if you surf well, obviously for beginners, they're great because you can surf them into the sand and they just float easy to catch waves. They're kind of a little bit um, they're a little bit slower. So the pacing of them kind of matches the wave when you're just kind of learning to like, ride the trim and ride the like the speed of the wave. So for people, learning is great, but for people that know how to surf, it's like those days when it's closing out and it's on the sand, or you just want to go out and have fun and fool around.Matt Parker- It's something different. So, um, so those ones we do and those are made in the US and there's just like injection foam molded soft tops. And then we also make some in Peru that are, uh, by the surfers in Peru, which are pretty sick. They're kind of more, they've got, um, a foam core and they have stringers and they're kind of like a slick bottom, like, uh, like some of the soft tops, you see. But they actually have like, real shape and they have a better flex to them. And there's real thin boxes. And those are kind of like, uh, a kind of a cool in-between where if you're like a kid or you're someone who's like kind of progressing, it's a great board to kind of progress on because you can actually turn them and you can surf them pretty decently and they're less, you know, less expensive and all that. They're made in a surf country by surfers, which is pretty cool.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I've got a 96 INT that I absolutely love. Um and I've always huh.Matt Parker- Ah It is got really good.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it lasted quite a while actually. It's still going. I actually surfed it every day when I was doing lessons for a long time and then would just end up catching loads of waves on it. I love them so much because it's a boat, right? The nine six int, it's a thick, big surfboard, but because it I think because it flexes so much, it's you can ride it in lots of different types of waves and actually have it actually really turn it much easier than the same amount of surfboard if it was a stiff sort of a is that why? And then you watch Jamie O'Brien surf them and pipe like.Matt Parker- Well, it's just funny.Matt Parker- It's sometimes it looks like he has the right board for them which is insane. He's obviously a.Matt Parker- Freak but that's.Matt Parker- But to me the point of it is, it's like it's a mindset thing. When you're riding those boards, you're kind of like, you're not you're definitely not trying to win a contest. When you're riding one of those, you're definitely going out there to have fun and kind of goof around, which is really good. This is a good reset for surfing, I think, as you kind of, you know. You can't try too hard. We just.Matt Parker- Got out there and.Matt Parker- It's much easier to kind of give, give a wave away to someone else. You're not you're not going to be back paddling people to get waves when you're on those. And so you're it's just it's a good mindset to reset and have fun on them. And that's why it's amazing how many sessions you have on those where you have a lot of fun, because your mindset is in a good place and you're not you're not overdoing it, you're not overcooking it, and you're better. Perspective.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, I guess you're not too worried about it cracking. If you miss time, something close to the sand or the board hits you a little bit, it's not as bad. Yeah, I've always enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed the novelty of riding a soft top. And it's stoked to see you guys making some, some, some more refined looking ones.Matt Parker- Yeah. I mean, the idea is obviously still there. The point is that they're soft tops. But if we can kind of come at it from a different angle, there's no need for us to go to the same factory that Wave storm or Cat surf makes and then just put different graphics on a soft top. Those already exist, right? Like we don't need to just have our that's just another commodity. We don't, we don't need to make another one of those. But if we can like if we can make something that's a little unique or that offers something different from everything else that's out there, and it gives a different feeling and we explore different things, then cool. We'll try it out and we'll give it a go. So.Michael Frampton - Um, cool. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I got one more question I want to leave you with before we sign off, which is what's your best and worst surf advice? That you ever received?Matt Parker- Yeah, I would see. I would say me too. But the worst would be.Matt Parker- I mean, the. Matt Parker- Best would definitely be like we've been talking about is like, uh, I've said this and I've said this before, this is kind of like my running theme a little bit as far as, like, choose the board, you know, when you're going to decide what you're going to ride. Like, think about if there was no one else on the beach and no one else is out in the water like you're talking about that day when you're happy and you're the only one out. Like, what would you actually ride? What do you actually really have the most fun surfing on? And that could be a short board. It could be a high performance short board. You could be. That's the day you take it out because you're not, you know, you're kind of kooky on it, but you want to get good and that's what you want to get out of it. But to me it's like I pick the board that if I don't do it to for the approval of others, you know, like choose what you really want to ride and what you really want to experience and just go do that and go have fun and I think you'll have the most fun. Um, I'm trying to think, like what? Uh, maybe that, um, you need to have an epoxy board for a wave pool. That's the worst.Matt Parker- That's that. That's it. I don't know how applicable that is, but.Michael Frampton - I think it's going to be more and more applicable very soon.Matt Parker- Well, I think and maybe that goes in line with what I think there are in surfing. There shouldn't be hard and fast rules. You know, sometimes there's like these perceptions and there's hard and fast rules like this is what you got to do and this is the way you gotta do it. And I don't like surfing. Doesn't have to like who says who don't have to do.Matt Parker- It's that way.Michael Frampton - Yeah. There's a famous surfer I can't remember. Is it Kelly Slater? I think he surfs a door.Michael Frampton - Yeah, you can. You can surf anything. Even an old door.Matt Parker- Exactly, exactly. I know a table. I think he surfs a table, like upside down.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And isn't there a video with Taj Burrow and Chris Ward all surfing, all sorts of objects. Yeah. So yeah, there's no rules, right?Matt Parker- Like, why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? We want to have fun. Just be out in the ocean. So.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Exactly. Uh, well, Matt, thank you so much for your time, man. Appreciate it.Matt Parker- Yeah.Matt Parker- Great to chat with you. Cool.Michael Frampton - All right. Simple as that. Thanks, man.Matt Parker- Yeah. Good to meet you.Michael Frampton - You too. Guy Kawasaki on the Surf Mastery Podcast

Al and Kevin talk about the people they wish were marriage candidates Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:18: What Have We Been Up To 00:07:01: Marvelous Game Showcase 00:28:38: New Games 00:33:40: Other Game News 00:49:36: People We Want As Marriage Candidates 01:15:43: Outro Links Marvelous Game Showcase Harvest Moon: Home Sweet Home Gourdlets Release Date Slime Rancher 2 0.5.0 Update Paleo Pines 1.4.3 Update Minami Lane 1.1 Update Potion Permit Complete Edition Sakuna Anime Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:31) Al: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of The Harvest Season. (0:00:37) Al: My name is Al and we’re here today to talk about cottagecore games, woohoo, woohoo, wow. (0:00:38) Kev: My name is Kevin last I checked (0:00:45) Kev: Whoo (0:00:46) Kev: Like cottage snore games. I’m kidding. No, actually it’s very exciting today. We have a lot of views (0:00:51) Al: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, are you Johnny? (0:00:54) Al: Like that’s, feels like something he would say. (0:00:56) Kev: No, no, I just I I don’t think that jokes been made yet. Um, I had to seize the opportunity (0:01:01) Al: I’ll need to search through the transcripts to see if it’s been said or not, but you’re (0:01:05) Al: right, I don’t remember it being said. (0:01:08) Al: All right, this episode, our main topic, if you will, although I suspect it will be the (0:01:15) Al: smallest part of the episode, but we’ll see, our main topic is people in cottagecore games (0:01:22) Al: that we want as marriage candidates that currently are not available as marriage candidates. (0:01:27) Al: This is the third of the trilogy of our marriage candidates. (0:01:30) Kev: Yeah, I get that the new that’s the you know, the last of news regards last minute last minute is so big (0:01:38) Kev: Like I forgot that’s what we’re here to talk of (0:01:39) Al: You’re like, oh, yeah, we’re actually we’re going to do that. (0:01:42) Al: Yeah, we’ve got that bit to do as well. (0:01:43) Kev: Yeah, I’m glad you also specified a (0:01:47) Kev: Cottagecore games, right because unfortunately I can’t talk about Jenny from high school (0:01:55) Al: Before that, we have some news. (0:01:58) Al: We have just some generic news. (0:02:01) Al: We also have some new games announced and we have we’re going to talk about (0:02:06) Al: marvellous games showcase, that’s marvellous (0:02:09) Al: the games company not marvel the comics company marvellous so we’re going to (0:02:16) Al: talk about that but first of all Kevin what have you been up to (0:02:21) Kev: Um, so, not, I mean, okay. (0:02:25) Kev: A lot of my pre times being consumed by fable them, the 1.0 came out. (0:02:29) Kev: I picked it up. (0:02:30) Kev: I’m playing it. (0:02:31) Kev: I’m enjoying it. (0:02:32) Kev: It’s, it’s the village builder I wanted. (0:02:36) Kev: I’m doing it. (0:02:37) Kev: Um, you know, I, like, I could go into detail, but that’s probably better for (0:02:42) Kev: another time, um, just, it’s really good. (0:02:43) Al: Yes. Yes, I’m sure you’ll go into detail on it on a future episode. (0:02:45) Kev: I enjoy it. (0:02:45) Kev: Thumbs up. (0:02:46) Kev: Um, when uh, uh, (0:02:51) Kev: um, uh, so that’s when I need the chill to, you know, brain dead game, more or less. (0:02:59) Kev: Uh, when I do feel like actually playing, I picked up some fighting games this week. (0:03:05) Kev: Uh, again, in particular, uh, Street Fighter 6 is the big one because they had, uh, the last of their wave of season one DLC or whatever dropped. (0:03:16) Kev: They added Akuma, who’s a big scary guy, both as a character. (0:03:21) Kev: I’m enjoying getting back into that. I am bad, I have lost everything, I feel worse than ever, but I am still playing. (0:03:32) Kev: So, you know, fighting games. (0:03:32) Al: when you when you said that you’re you’re bad I was going to say obvious the (0:03:35) Kev: What about you, Al? What have you been up to? (0:03:38) Kev: Okay, go ahead. (0:03:40) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:03:42) Al: important thing is that you’re enjoying it and then you immediately followed up (0:03:45) Al: with I feel worse than ever about it so I was like mmm well awkward well we love (0:03:51) Kev: Yeah, well, look, we’re Pokemon fans. (0:03:55) Kev: We’re gluttons for punishment. (0:03:58) Al: Okay, what have I been asking for? (0:04:02) Al: I have picked up Starstruck Thagobond, which came out about a week ago as we’re recording. (0:04:10) Al: And yeah, I’m enjoying it so far. We’ll see where it goes and how much I enjoy it, etc, etc. (0:04:20) Al: I also may well go into more detail on that in the future episode. (0:04:26) Kev: Okay. [laughs] (0:04:28) Al: I’ve… (0:04:32) Al: Yes, yes it does. I have also been playing more farm RPG, which was, (0:04:39) Al: I don’t know if you’ve listened to this week’s episode or not, Kevin, because it’s only two days (0:04:42) Al: since it came out. Well, that’s what we were talking about me and Cody, and I have continued (0:04:42) Kev: I’m… Yeah, no, I have not caught up on that. (0:04:49) Al: to play it, so I don’t know how long I will continue to play it for, but it is, it’s very (0:04:52) Kev: Hey, well, there you go. (0:04:55) Al: much my just, I’ve just been kind of tapping buttons on mobile when I feel like it sort of thing for it, (0:05:01) Al: So. (0:05:03) Al: Yeah, I have been, I have been playing that. I don’t know if enjoying is the right word. (0:05:04) Kev: You enjoy the number go big some people do (0:05:09) Al: It’s like, do you, it’s like if you play cookie clicker, do you enjoy that? (0:05:13) Al: Is it? I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy is just an interesting word for it. Anyway, (0:05:21) Kev: That’s that (0:05:23) Al: we don’t need to get into that. And I’ve been playing some more Pokemon, as usual. It’s, (0:05:28) Al: It’s raid weekend, Kevin, so I’ve done the raid this weekend. (0:05:32) Al: I thought you were going to say Street Fighter 6 has Swampert. (0:05:32) Kev: Who’s rate or what is being attacked? What is that a Swampert? You know, what’s crazy? (0:05:41) Kev: What if I told you Street Fighter 6 introduced rates (0:05:48) Kev: No, no, I wish (0:05:49) Al: How does a raid work in a fighting game, a one-on-one fighting game? (0:05:54) Kev: Yeah (0:05:56) Kev: Basically, you’ve got to beat up a bunch you beat up X number of opponents or whatever and you (0:06:02) Kev: Earn attack points and then those attack points are used to fire a big cannon at a big scary version of Akuma in this case (0:06:12) Kev: To whittle down. It’s held to a zero and rewards are based on how much you contribute yada. Yada (0:06:18) Kev: Obviously, it’s not actually like a (0:06:20) Al: Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s like a yeah, it’s a it’s a whole world sort of get a big number type thing. (0:06:22) Kev: You know cooperative thing (0:06:27) Kev: Yeah, yeah, it’s a goal like like those Sun and Moon events you remember back (0:06:32) Al: Yes, I do. (0:06:33) Kev: 8 billion eggs or whatever. Yeah, I like that. But okay Swampert’s cool. I like Swampert. They should bring (0:06:42) Al: Well maybe they will with this upcoming game. (0:06:46) Kev: I hope so. (0:06:46) Kev: Yeah, I know. (0:06:48) Kev: I’m so excited. (0:06:48) Kev: Oh my gosh, we’re back. (0:06:51) Al: Excited but excited-ish. Excited for what could be. (0:07:00) Kev: Yeah, yeah. (0:07:02) Al: All right let’s talk about we’re gonna first talk about the Marvelous game (0:07:06) Al: showcase. It’s interesting. Marvelous game showcase. It’s not games. (0:07:12) Al: It makes it sound like they’re just showcasing one game but it was definitely (0:07:15) Al: multiple games. Well it was multiple games kind of because we didn’t really (0:07:20) Al: get any details about anything. Are you excited about Far Magia? (0:07:22) Kev: Speaking of being excited for what COULD be… (0:07:29) Al: The concept of it anyway. (0:07:31) Kev: Uh, okay. So… (0:07:35) Kev: What is the concept? (0:07:36) Al: Well that’s a good question. So Far Magia is their first. They (0:07:41) Al: He originally announced this game a year ago. (0:07:42) Al: This is going to be, you’re going to hear this a lot in this section. (0:07:47) Al: They originally announced this game a year ago at the Marvelous Game Showcase (0:07:50) Al: 2023 as Project Magia, and they didn’t really say anything about it. (0:07:55) Al: They just said, we’re making it. (0:07:57) Al: And then they’ve shown a little cut scene, game introduction type thing with a bunch (0:08:04) Al: of characters and they went into detail about some of the characters. (0:08:07) Al: And that’s, that’s it. (0:08:08) Al: We still don’t have any game, game footage, gameplay. (0:08:12) Al: We don’t have any real information about the game itself, like what actually is it. (0:08:18) Al: I’m assuming it’s going to be a farming game based on the name, but I might be wrong. (0:08:24) Kev: That would, that would be why, I mean, yep, right. (0:08:24) Al: Because my assumption is it’s farm, magia, as in like magic farm, that’s my assumption. (0:08:32) Al: But it could, it might be far. It might not be farm, it might be far. (0:08:38) Al: Because we didn’t even hear them say the name because it was said in Japanese. (0:08:42) Kev: Oh, no, you’re right (0:08:42) Al: I assume a lot of things, but my current assumption is it’s farm, magia. (0:08:48) Al: And it’s going to be a magic based farming game. (0:08:48) Kev: Well, and I mean, you know (0:08:53) Kev: Given this company’s history you would expect that right? (0:08:56) Al: You would, yeah, you would think so. (0:08:58) Kev: But like I don’t yeah, yeah, that’s a reasonable assumption (0:09:03) Kev: But like at the same time, I don’t think we actually saw any sort of form ish related thing (0:09:08) Al: No, nothing. (0:09:10) Kev: But we did see Wasmoth. (0:09:12) Kev: Monster collecting, or monster fighting, yeah I don’t know. (0:09:14) Al: Monster fighting. I don’t think there was any collecting, but there was there was definitely fighting of some kind. (0:09:18) Kev: Well, there were different kinds of monsters it might be collecting, who knows. (0:09:23) Kev: It’s popular with the kids. (0:09:25) Kev: Um, and, yeah, I want to be excited, oh okay, okay. (0:09:30) Al: Oh we do actually see a farm. We do see a farm. I’ve just noticed four minutes and 58 seconds into (0:09:37) Al: the video, the showcase, we see what we see. This looks like a farm with moving plant, (0:09:39) Kev: Okay let me, let me look at that. (0:09:42) Kev: No, so there’s, there’s don’t. (0:09:47) Al: they look like they might be creatures. It’s it’s like literally shown for a second. (0:09:54) Al: And it’s like little tails waggling. (0:09:54) Kev: going through but yeah I mean that I mean you know obviously there’s a few (0:10:00) Kev: people there’s a few does room fact like someone’s never actually played a room (0:10:04) Kev: factory game does room factory combined monsters with your farming and whatnot (0:10:08) Al: Yeah, it’s basically it is essentially just a farming game, but with much more emphasis (0:10:14) Al: on the fighting. (0:10:16) Al: So think of it, I mean, it’s actually not miles away from what Stardew is right with (0:10:23) Al: the cave and with the skull cavern and stuff like that because Stardew has quite a few (0:10:28) Al: different areas now with monsters. (0:10:32) Al: But it’s much more like there is a story to that, to the monster fighting as well. (0:10:38) Al: Like you’re going out and trying to find your way through an area for a story whereas in (0:10:39) Kev: - Yeah. (0:10:43) Al: Stardew you’re doing it because it’s there, you know. (0:10:48) Kev: OK, right. I get you. (0:10:52) Al: So yeah, the fighting isn’t the unique thing, the kind of the story around why you’re fighting (0:10:52) Kev: Well, hopefully. OK. (0:10:57) Al: and what you’re doing and why you have amnesia. (0:10:58) Kev: Now, OK, I get you. (0:11:01) Kev: Well, hopefully this does combine the two, maybe a bit more. (0:11:09) Kev: You know, I’m always down for that, right? (0:11:11) Kev: Because I feel like at this point, we’ve had a handful of games (0:11:14) Kev: trying to combine the monster catching and the farming. (0:11:17) Kev: but I don’t feel like (0:11:18) Kev: any have actually done it that well (0:11:22) Kev: meshing the two together not not just having them both in the game but (0:11:24) Al: Oh, you’re right, it does look like Monster Collection, because it definitely looks like (0:11:25) Kev: actually you know (0:11:26) Kev: working together that’s what I want to see like paleo pines is the one that i (0:11:31) Kev: can think of that i’ve (0:11:37) Al: they’re telling monsters with cards what to do. (0:11:42) Kev: Yup, that you go triple A, level, I don’t know whatever A, this is Moonstone Island, maybe, who knows. (0:11:42) Al: So it looks like it might be a deck builder. (0:11:50) Al: A farming creature collector deck building. (0:11:52) Kev: Marvelous Moonstone Island, there we go. (0:11:59) Kev: Maybe, who knows. One, one other thing, like, I don’t, I’m gonna, you haven’t mentioned it, (0:12:07) Kev: So I’m guessing it doesn’t hold much weight for you, but they got Hiromashima to work on (0:12:12) Kev: the art, which is pretty cool for people not familiar. He’s a Japanese bengaka. He has (0:12:18) Kev: some pretty big hits. I think most notably he’s called Fairy Tail. The art for the characters (0:12:23) Kev: he has. Very distinct that those eyes are like his trademarks. But anyways, personally (0:12:29) Kev: that excites me. I like Hiromashima, so that’s pretty cool. That’s a good get. (0:12:32) Al: enough so they say this game is in development and will be releasing this (0:12:38) Al: year I don’t think it’s releasing this year like if this is I mean it’s June (0:12:40) Kev: which is wild (0:12:44) Al: basically right it’s June and they they’ve not even shown any game footage (0:12:45) Kev: yeah (0:12:50) Al: or even really given us a good idea of what the game is and they say it’s (0:12:52) Kev: yeah that’s wild to me (0:12:55) Al: coming out this year doubt it we’ll see we’ll see six months you can do a lot in (0:12:57) Kev: I don’t I don’t know (0:13:01) Kev: we’ll see (0:13:02) Al: a guess me I mean it’s it’s very possible that they just don’t want to (0:13:04) Kev: that you can (0:13:06) Al: hype it up too quickly and too fast and actually they are on track to be ready (0:13:09) Kev: - Yeah. (0:13:11) Kev: Yes, I will say that I haven’t, okay, I haven’t kept up with Marvelous' (0:13:17) Kev: released schedule history, but I haven’t heard bad things about it at least, right? (0:13:22) Kev: Like, I haven’t heard huge delays or whatever. But, um, the real question is, (0:13:24) Al: no they don’t they don’t they don’t tend to do they don’t tend to have delays (0:13:30) Kev: yeah. Yeah, so we’ll see. I think 20, 24, it’s, I think it’s possible. (0:13:35) Al: oh except for Rune Factory 5 that was delayed by multiple years but (0:13:40) Kev: Well, yeah, touche. (0:13:42) Al: to everyone that’s listening and screaming Rune Factory 5 yes yes yes (0:13:43) Kev: The question for me is when or if it will get localized. (0:13:54) Al: Yeah, yeah, that’s always a good question because they have… I’m trying to remember (0:13:54) Kev: That’s what I wanna know. (0:13:59) Al: if any… I think Pioneers of All of Town may be released the same time over here, but yeah, (0:14:06) Al: I don’t think they generally… Oh, and the newer Doraemon game, Doraemon, Story of Seasons, (0:14:14) Al: Friends of the Great Kingdom, that released at the same time everywhere, but I think in (0:14:21) Al: general, like a wonderful life was (0:14:24) Al: was like a couple of months, wasn’t it? (0:14:26) Kev: Yeah (0:14:27) Al: And the Friends of Minero Town remake was a couple of months (0:14:30) Al: and Rinfactory 5 was like three or four months. (0:14:31) Kev: Yeah (0:14:33) Kev: Well, I mean that’s a reasonable time right like question the bigger question is the if all right because (0:14:40) Kev: You know, this is a new title and franchise whatever right? (0:14:43) Al: Well, let’s, I mean, let’s put it, let’s put it this way. I, I mean, this was the English (0:14:43) Kev: So I don’t know if they’re gonna feel like it’s gonna hit in the States or outside (0:14:53) Al: language version of their showcase. Now granted it was in, it was all of, they didn’t have (0:14:59) Al: it dubbed, but they did have it subbed and it was a specific version of the video for (0:15:05) Al: the English language YouTube channel. (0:15:06) Kev: That is true, and we get in English official English title for major. You know I take it back (0:15:11) Kev: It’s gonna get localized. Doesn’t think about that (0:15:13) Al: I think Farmagia is just, is just the name. I think that’s what they’re calling it in (0:15:14) Kev: and they (0:15:17) Al: Japan as well. Yeah. (0:15:17) Kev: Oh is it okay (0:15:19) Kev: Well there you go (0:15:22) Kev: Well, they said showed it like in English. I don’t know and that could have been the name in Japan in Japan (0:15:25) Al: Yeah, they called it… (0:15:27) Kev: But with Japanese characters you know I mean (0:15:30) Al: Yeah, I just listened to it, and yeah, they called it “Pharmagia” is what they called it in the in the Japanese. (0:15:30) Kev: But we’ll see (0:15:32) Kev: Okay, Mike. I hope sir hi (0:15:36) Kev: All right, there you go. (0:15:41) Kev: And also, they very clearly labeled other things in the showcase as Japan only. (0:15:43) Al: They did, yeah. That’s a good point. They had one of the arcade cabinets was Japan only, the Pokemon one, and one of the mobile games was Japan only. (0:15:54) Kev: In the crane game we don’t get fluffy cow plush (0:15:56) Al: Oh yeah, the crane game. Well, you say game. I do feel like it’s like, is it a game? Like, this is stretching game quite a lot, like gambling box. (0:16:06) Kev: Okay, that one, that one I don’t know. (0:16:11) Kev: Other crane games, I, yes, I think they are, (0:16:14) Kev: but that one did specifically. (0:16:16) Kev: I don’t know, that was a weird design. (0:16:16) Al: it was very different it was very it definitely looked a very large plush (0:16:18) Kev: But who cares? (0:16:19) Kev: I just want the cow inside. (0:16:25) Kev: Yeah, yeah. (0:16:27) Kev: So just, we gotta plan our trip to Japan (0:16:30) Kev: so we can review the cow plush. (0:16:34) Al: Subscribe to our Patreon! (0:16:38) Al: I promise, Kevin, if we get enough patrons to mean that I can afford to take me and you (0:16:41) Al: to Japan, I will do it. (0:16:43) Al: It’s not gonna happen, but… (0:16:44) Kev: that’d be great yeah yeah we need okay that’s (0:16:48) Al: Next we have Story of Seasons. (0:16:50) Al: So in the grand tradition of this video of not giving us any real information, we got (0:16:55) Al: No real information about this either! (0:16:58) Kev: Nope. (0:17:00) Al: So we got the same little video that we got last year (0:17:04) Al: of the chickens and the cows. (0:17:05) Al: And then they showed us a little bit more of the seasons (0:17:11) Al: and the weather and someone looking up at the sky (0:17:14) Al: and seeing fireworks. (0:17:16) Al: And we saw a horse. (0:17:18) Al: And the one gameplay feature difference that we’re seeing (0:17:21) Al: is there’s a glider, which is interesting. (0:17:24) Kev: Yeah, I don’t know how about it. I don’t know how I feel about that. I don’t know how gliders you’re gonna fit in (0:17:29) Kev: But I guess we’ll see (0:17:31) Al: I mean, it definitely leans towards the fact that this is going to be, if possibly not (0:17:36) Al: open world, but certainly a full 3D exploration kind of farming game type thing, more like (0:17:41) Kev: I imagine, at the very least, I bet they’re gonna have a big wild area type of area, where (0:17:46) Al: how the… yeah, they’re going to do something. (0:17:53) Kev: you can maybe catch canvas or something, I don’t know. (0:17:57) Kev: The one thing that I haven’t paid attention to previously when they nest or whatever, (0:18:02) Kev: but they did emphasize, like, they’re putting a lot of focus on the visuals, and it is absolutely (0:18:07) Al: Yeah, it looks, it looks, it looks fine, but like, I mean, I’m also just okay. Fine. Like, (0:18:09) Kev: the prettiest story of season’s game ever. (0:18:19) Al: but why? Like, I just, I don’t know what I have to be excited about it, other than, (0:18:25) Al: yeah, it looks, looks, looks nice. (0:18:28) Kev: We get HDTaos. (0:18:29) Al: Yes, but what is this game? Like, I don’t know, what is it? I want to know what it (0:18:30) Kev: That’s exciting for me. (0:18:37) Al: is. And like, what was the last game they actually released that was actively exciting? (0:18:37) Kev: That, eh, validating, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:18:45) Al: I know you liked A Wonderful Life, but you liked A Wonderful Life because you like A (0:18:49) Al: Wonderful Life, right? Like somebody who had not played that before would not be excited (0:18:51) Kev: Yes. (0:18:54) Al: about that. The second Doraemon game was okay, but it wasn’t like exciting and different (0:18:55) Kev: They should be. (0:19:00) Al: from the first, really. The first Doraemon story of season’s game, that was probably (0:19:05) Al: the last actually exciting. (0:19:07) Al: and pioneers of all of town was fine but it wasn’t amazing it didn’t do it I mean (0:19:10) Kev: Well, yeah, I guess we’ll have to see, won’t we? (0:19:18) Kev: Right. (0:19:19) Kev: Yeah. (0:19:20) Al: it wasn’t bad right but nothing about it is memorable like as bad as bad as the (0:19:23) Kev: It was whelming. (0:19:27) Al: most the last to harvest moon games have been at least they’re memorable like (0:19:33) Kev: It is better to be a trash fire than just a mediocre. (0:19:34) Al: pain. (0:19:38) Al: Yeah. So I hope they’re doing something rather than just going, what if story of seasons, (0:19:45) Al: but 3D, you know, like, I hope it’s more than that. (0:19:50) Kev: Yeah (0:19:51) Kev: Well, yeah, well, yeah, that’s a good question. I will have to see who knows (0:19:56) Al: But I’m also, well possibly, I’m also just a little bit surprised by (0:19:57) Kev: Maybe for Magia be the winners (0:20:04) Al: we got maybe a little bit (0:20:07) Al: more than the amount of footage we got last year, a year ago. We still don’t have a name, (0:20:13) Al: we still don’t have any actual gameplay, just some pre-rendered cutscenes. And no idea about (0:20:18) Al: what this game actually is, a year later, after the first initial indication that this (0:20:21) Kev: Yeah, that’s a good point, yeah. (0:20:23) Al: game was coming. And that’s not the last time I’m going to say this. But the other thing, (0:20:28) Kev: When will you say it again? (0:20:35) Al: before we get on to that. The other thing that I’m surprised (0:20:38) Al: by is last year they announced there were two Story of Seasons games coming. This one (0:20:41) Al: that they’ve been talking about now, a single player focused one, but also a multiplayer (0:20:45) Al: focused one. We got no indication that they’re even still doing that at all. It wasn’t even (0:20:50) Al: a like ‘oh we’re still doing this’. Nothing at all. They didn’t mention it at all. They (0:20:55) Al: talked about one Story of Seasons game. So has that second Story of Seasons game died? (0:21:01) Al: Have they decided to just stop talking about it until it’s closer? (0:21:04) Kev: I don’t know became became the nude Damon ex machina. That’s what happened (0:21:12) Al: Right, okay, next we have Rune Factory, Rune Factory Project Dragon, which is not Rune (0:21:16) Kev: So what what else did they talk about? (0:21:24) Al: Factory 6, because as I’ve just mentioned for the Story Seasons multiplayer game, they (0:21:29) Al: didn’t mention Rune Factory 6, even though they mentioned Rune Factory 6 a year ago. (0:21:32) Kev: Yep. (0:21:37) Al: Yeah, I don’t know why… (0:21:37) Kev: I’m starting to get the impression (0:21:39) Kev: they may have made some questionable PR decisions. (0:21:42) Al: Whoever decided what they were going to tell us all that information last year, like, (0:21:47) Al: just silly, silly decision, you should not do that. (0:21:52) Kev: Yeah, although they did give the small disclaimer at the beginning that they were there were gonna be games (0:21:58) Kev: They talked about last year that they were gonna talk about this year (0:22:01) Kev: So they acknowledged it (0:22:02) Al: Yeah, but for what reason, though? This is the thing. They didn’t say why. Right? So (0:22:07) Al: this is my thing. It’s like, don’t announce a game. Because they did this with Rune Factory (0:22:08) Kev: That is fine (0:22:14) Al: 5, right? They announced, “Oh, we’re making Rune Factory 5.” And then it took four years, (0:22:19) Al: was it? Until they actually released Rune Factory 5, and they basically gave no information (0:22:28) Al: for most of that time. (0:22:30) Kev: Yeah, mmm, so look forward to farm Asia is the theme of this showcase (0:22:36) Al: Fine, let’s talk about Project Dragon. (0:22:40) Al: So they said that this is a game where you save the world through dance, (0:22:41) Kev: Dance (0:22:46) Al: but all the stuff they showed us was just pretty standard combat. (0:22:46) Kev: And I didn’t see dancing (0:22:50) Kev: Yeah, I was about to say that it looks you know what it looks like it looks like genshin impact boy, that’s that’s some genshin impact (0:22:58) Kev: Okay. (0:23:00) Al: I’ll take your word for it. I haven’t actually played (0:23:00) Kev: Um, I mean, I haven’t played that much either, but I’ve seen Genshin Impact gameplay and it, it looks very similar. (0:23:08) Kev: Um, but yeah, it, like one thing ever and down here is like, it, there’s no farming that we really saw. (0:23:16) Kev: Is it just the combat oriented one? (0:23:18) Kev: Maybe because brand. (0:23:18) Al: I feel like why would they call it Runefactory if it didn’t have farming in it? (0:23:22) Al: But then I feel like if they were going to do that, they would have called Farmagia one of, they would have called it a Runefactory. (0:23:29) Kev: Well, you know what? The thing is, this isn’t a mainline room factory game. It’s a side game. (0:23:36) Al: I mean you’re right though they didn’t say anything about farming so we don’t know if (0:23:42) Al: it’s got farming in it. We do know it’s got combat which they claim is dance. I didn’t (0:23:42) Kev: Yeah. (0:23:48) Kev: I didn’t see dancing. I wish it were. I’d be excited if it were actually fight dancing. (0:23:50) Al: see dancing either. I guess there’s a bit that I’m watching where they’re they’re fighting (0:23:59) Al: a wooly and it does look like they don’t actually have a weapon and they’re doing moves like (0:24:03) Al: you have a weapon and it’s shooting off fireballs. (0:24:06) Al: That just looks like standard magic stuff in these games, right? (0:24:10) Kev: Yeah (0:24:10) Al: Like it doesn’t… (0:24:11) Al: I don’t… (0:24:12) Al: What makes this dance? (0:24:13) Kev: Yeah, it doesn’t it’s probably just the story whatever it’s probably not actually the game (0:24:16) Al: Yeah. (0:24:18) Al: No information on when it’s releasing. (0:24:23) Al: I think they’d originally said this was meant to be coming out this year. (0:24:26) Al: It’s probably not. (0:24:28) Kev: Yeah, who knows? (0:24:28) Al: Yeah. (0:24:29) Al: Yeah. (0:24:29) Kev: So far, Meiji, uh-huh. (0:24:30) Al: I don’t… (0:24:32) Al: It certainly weirdly seems like the one that’s closest to release, and also the (0:24:36) Al: one that’s possibly most exciting out of these. (0:24:37) Kev: Yeah. (0:24:39) Kev: Because it feels the most real. (0:24:42) Al: Maybe that’s… (0:24:43) Al: Maybe that’s why. (0:24:44) Kev: Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, (0:24:46) Kev: even though we didn’t get the gameplay trailer, (0:24:48) Kev: first of all, we get the release date, (0:24:50) Kev: which implies they’re close to completion to some degree. (0:24:52) Al: Well, we got released year, year, yeah, but I like it’s, it’s a very wide way. (0:24:55) Kev: Release year, oh yeah, yes, year, right? (0:24:58) Kev: Release window, let’s say that, right? (0:25:00) Kev: There is a number. (0:25:02) Al: It’s a six month long window at this point. (0:25:04) Kev: Sure, sure. (0:25:06) Kev: Yeah, but I mean, the others have a much wider window. (0:25:12) Kev: At least, they’re telling us that this game (0:25:15) Kev: will very likely exist from Asia, (0:25:19) Kev: from Agia, whatever they call it. (0:25:21) Kev: And hey, like, what we can in French on the trailer, (0:25:24) Kev: you know, monster catching farming, (0:25:26) Kev: It all sounds fun, so. (0:25:28) Kev: So, yeah, I’m excited about it, and hey, yep, yeah, the Dracula one, yep, that’s, uh, it’s fine. (0:25:30) Al: Yeah, they had a little indie section in the middle as well where they talked about a few (0:25:36) Al: of the games that they are publishing, including Moonlight Peaks, which is one we’ve talked (0:25:41) Al: about before, which is interesting. They’ve apparently said it’s coming out in 2026 now, (0:25:48) Kev: Okay, sure, take your time. I’m in a rush. I’m keen on the game. (0:25:49) Al: which before it was saying they didn’t have any date before, so just updating my list. (0:25:58) Kev: You know how your grandpa. (0:26:00) Al: That is, that is the first game. That’s the first game on my list to say 2026. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. (0:26:06) Kev: You know how it’s always your grandpa or whatever who judges your farm? (0:26:14) Kev: Does this mean we’ll get Dracula to judge our farm? (0:26:15) Al: Yeah. (0:26:18) Kev: I like that. (0:26:24) Kev: There was that Death by Guitar game. (0:26:26) Kev: game. It wasn’t Cottagecore, but you played it. (0:26:28) Kev: It plays an electric guitar. I think that’s red. (0:26:30) Al: Yeah, I kind of vaguely paid attention to that, but I was like, I don’t have the headspace (0:26:34) Al: to figure out what is happening. And there was a… (0:26:34) Kev: And that’s fine. And Pokemon– who thought– I didn’t know Pokemon actually would ever hear one of these, but there we are. (0:26:38) Al: Yeah, the… (0:26:42) Kev: It’s not Cottagecore, it’s an arcade game. Very excited-looking children, but… (0:26:42) Al: Yeah. (0:26:45) Al: I think it actually looked kind of cool because it was like too stuck together and you can (0:26:53) Al: play them individually or you can join up for co-op and it covers all both screens for (0:26:56) Kev: Yeah (0:27:01) Kev: Yeah, arcade machines are cool and like they do really cool stuff in Japan with them (0:27:06) Kev: So it’s a pity they’re dead pretty much everywhere else, but that there you go (0:27:12) Kev: No cow plushie for us (0:27:12) Al: There was a Metroidvania as well, which looked fine, but it looked like a pretty standard (0:27:16) Kev: Yeah, I do I (0:27:18) Al: Metroidvania, right? (0:27:19) Al: There’s nothing like, “Oh wow, it was amazing,” but it was fine. (0:27:20) Kev: Followed Hollow Knight did the Stardew thing where it’s just kind of ruined (0:27:27) Kev: Genre, why why did you have to give it the cape like the Hollow Knight? (0:27:35) Al: I’m looking for my first farming Metroidvania. (0:27:39) Kev: Oh (0:27:42) Kev: I’m trying to think you know Hades 2 has farming. It’s not metroidvania. Oh, no, I’m not it has farming. Absolutely (0:27:47) Al: Oh please tell me you’re joking. (0:27:52) Al: So it’s more like Cult of the Lam. (0:27:55) Kev: And maybe? (0:27:56) Al: Damn, am I gonna have to play this stupid game? (0:27:58) Kev: Because I don’t know if you remember Hades one had the fishing right so they like they said we’re gonna kind of expand on (0:28:04) Kev: That and they threw in farming now (0:28:05) Al: Yeah, the thing the thing is, right, the fishing is just like, it’s not really interesting to me, (0:28:11) Al: because it’s just all of the stuff in Hades between the runs was just things you did (0:28:11) Kev: Yeah (0:28:15) Kev: Yeah, yeah, yeah (0:28:16) Al: to make the runs better, right? Whereas the thing about Cult of the Lamb was the runs (0:28:21) Al: were to make your your village better, not the other way around. (0:28:24) Kev: Yeah (0:28:26) Kev: That’s a good point. I don’t know how far goes into that. I just know farming exists in the game (0:28:32) Kev: I haven’t played it myself or anything (0:28:34) Al: I don’t want to play this game. Don’t make me play this game. (0:28:36) Kev: Cottagecore (0:28:39) Al: Speaking of games that I’m gonna play but I don’t expect to enjoy, we have a new Harvest (0:28:45) Al: Moon game being announced, Harvest Moon Home Sweet Home, but this is a mobile game. It (0:28:52) Al: is coming to iOS and Android in August of this year. So in two months, between two and (0:28:58) Kev: Ha! (0:28:58) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:28:59) Al: three months, but we didn’t get any gameplay footage or screenshots of this game at all. (0:29:04) Al: in this announcement. And it very much feels like they went, “Oh, (0:29:08) Al: the Marvelous Showcase is tomorrow. Let’s announce our new game, even though we’re not ready to.” (0:29:14) Al: Because it was announced literally 24 hours before the Marvelous Showcase. (0:29:18) Kev: Look, there’s no denying that Marvelous has done better than Natsume, but Natsume likes (0:29:25) Kev: to hold up that Harvest Moon logo just to remind them. (0:29:28) Al: Yeah, so they announced this game, all they did was one tweet and it says “Harvest Moon (0:29:29) Kev: Just to rub the salt on their one win. (0:29:33) Kev: And it works! (0:29:34) Kev: It hurts me to see it! (0:29:42) Al: Home Sweet Home is coming to iOS and Android August 2024. Home is where the heart is. After (0:29:48) Al: 10 years of city life, you’re ready to head back home in Harvest Moon Home Sweet Home. (0:29:53) Al: Your childhood friend has convinced you to move back to your hometown to try to revitalize (0:29:58) Al: to be easy going. The town of Alba, I’m assuming it’s Alba, not Alaba, because I don’t know. (0:30:04) Al: Did we have this conversation around the other game? What was it called? Alba Wild Life Adventure, (0:30:08) Kev: I mean, there’s Jessica Alba, right, so I’m going with that. (0:30:17) Al: because the word Alba is also, that spelling is a Gaelic word to refer to Scotland, but (0:30:28) Al: it’s not pronounced Alba, it’s pronounced Alapa. So it’s like, I’m assuming you’re correct in this (0:30:31) Kev: Well, the invisible woman lied to me. (0:30:35) Al: Alba, but I can’t read it and not think about that, the fact that it could theoretically be (0:30:43) Al: Scotland. I doubt it, but anyway, we’ll move on. Back to the quote. “The town of Alba,” I’m just (0:30:49) Al: going to say Alba for now, “has seen better days and not all its residents are happy to see a city (0:30:53) Al: slicker like you back. Can you convince even the negative naysayers? (0:30:58) Al: That you truly have the village’s best interests at heart? And can you revitalize Alba with the (0:31:03) Al: help of your childhood friend and other villagers on your side? You definitely can. (0:31:08) Kev: okay so there’s there’s nothing here like uh let’s be clear but but it’s giving me some ideas (0:31:11) Al: No. (0:31:13) Al: Yeah, that was a lot of words to tell us nothing. (0:31:17) Kev: but it’s giving me some ideas and we get a cottage poor farming game where the residents (0:31:26) Kev: all are hateful and and discriminating and and not nice i’d be down for this (0:31:32) Al: We should do it where you like you get to choose um I don’t know if this is really bad (0:31:39) Al: or not but I’m going with it anyway I’m leaning in you get to choose what minority you are (0:31:44) Al: and then everybody in the village hates that specific minority and you have to justify (0:31:47) Kev: Yeah (0:31:53) Kev: Yeah (0:31:54) Al: justify why you should exist oh no (0:32:01) Kev: Somebody get on this. This is gold. Mmm. Oh (0:32:04) Al: don’t know how I feel about even talking about that. That’s dreadful. Oh my word. No! (0:32:09) Kev: You could you could do some mean stuff at one point they have to burn your crops, you know when they have to (0:32:15) Kev: - Thank you. (0:32:17) Al: - No. (0:32:17) Kev: - Yeah, it’s good stuff. (laughs) (0:32:22) Kev: Hmm. (0:32:24) Al: Yeah, so there’s nothing here about this game, we don’t have any information about it, because (0:32:29) Al: like all of this is saying is basically the plot of every farming game. (0:32:35) Kev: Yep, yep, this this description gave me an another angle to another idea (0:32:41) Kev: Why don’t we do the reverse where you move to the city to? (0:32:46) Kev: Gentrify the village to modernize it ruin ruin the lifestyle. Let’s see that. Let’s see that angle. Come on (0:32:53) Kev: Be the this slick real estate guy (0:32:57) Al: It’s just taking the, um, the Georgia route to the extreme. (0:33:02) Kev: Yeah, yeah, basically (0:33:05) Kev: Thank you harvest moon for in announcing these ideas in my head (0:33:05) Al: You know, you know, there’s a fun. (0:33:10) Kev: Heh heh heh. (0:33:10) Al: There’s a fantastic bit in, you know, how on, in the 1.6 stardew update, (0:33:15) Al: you can pay to find the walnuts on ginger Island. (0:33:18) Kev: Yeah, yeah. (0:33:19) Al: If you do that, there’s a fantastic cut scene where, uh, what’s, isn’t (0:33:24) Al: Morris is sitting on our bed. (0:33:27) Al: Deck chair in the middle of the island with bags of cash sitting around him while his (0:33:29) Kev: Yeah. (0:33:32) Al: parrots go and find all the walnuts is fantastic okay so that’s that’s all of this the marvelous (0:33:32) Kev: You’re the last. (0:33:35) Kev: It’s good, that’s good, I like that. (0:33:39) Kev: That’s, that’s strong. (0:33:44) Al: stuff and the natsume stuff so we have some other game news as well which is a little (0:33:50) Al: bit more concrete shall we say so first of all we have gourdlets gourdlets have announced (0:33:57) Al: they’re releasing in summer 2024 so just to summarize this this was this is it describes (0:34:05) Al: itself as an easy-going sandbox game about building towns for cute vegetable folks yeah (0:34:12) Kev: That’s exactly what it looks like. (0:34:16) Al: you love when you’ve got a description of a game and you’re like yeah that is yeah okay (0:34:19) Al: sure and it’s very sad it like it’s very sandboxy like there’s some bits of them actually just (0:34:25) Al: putting just making. (0:34:27) Kev: It’s that isometric (0:34:29) Kev: You know view with you see the whole island and clearly you can add to it and cubicle or whatever (0:34:36) Kev: Yeah (0:34:37) Kev: Those are some Pikmin vegetable people (0:34:40) Al: I. I mean. (0:34:40) Kev: Yeah, all right. That’s cute. When do they add the turnip boy crossover to ruin everything? (0:34:47) Kev: Does he fit in? (0:34:47) Al: I’m intrigued as to see how well this will work with controller, (0:34:50) Al: because it does say it will have controller support. (0:34:53) Kev: Hmm (0:34:54) Al: I’m intrigued to see how well that will work, because it looks very mouse based. (0:34:57) Kev: It does, one of those vegetable people is cooking, okay. (0:35:03) Kev: I don’t know, they don’t have hands, I don’t know how they do it, but they do it. (0:35:06) Al: You don’t need to question these things (0:35:10) Kev: Also, this isn’t their fault, but (0:35:14) Kev: Ooblets has really claimed their stake on that name and (0:35:20) Kev: the (0:35:20) Al: let’s hmm well we’ll see what we’ll see what comes of it so they’re releasing in (0:35:27) Al: the summer and I don’t think that’s early access I think that’s just 1.0 (0:35:32) Kev: Yeah, their demo’s out now, so probably. (0:35:34) Al: slime rancher 2 have announced that they have just released a 0.5 update it (0:35:42) Al: doesn’t seem like there’s much to talk about if you don’t already have played (0:35:46) Al: the game. There’s stuff about a new shop. (0:35:50) Kev: Okay. Look, I, well, I get, like, I get marketing has to be a thing, but you can announce your early access. I get that. But after that, I don’t want to hear anything about it until 1.0. (0:36:03) Kev: It feels so weird to me to announce these half updates or whatever. Like it’s wild. (0:36:12) Al: Am I part of the problem Kevin? Speaking of weird update numbers, (0:36:15) Kev: No, you’re not. You’re, no, no, no, no, not by any means. It’s, it’s like, (0:36:21) Al: Paleopine’s 1.4.3 adds the now let me see if I got this, (0:36:21) Kev: ha ha ha. (0:36:28) Al: if I can pronounce this properly, Sarcosuchus, or Sarcosuchus? (0:36:32) Kev: Uh, circus sutures, I’d say sutures, but it could be, because I don’t, you might be right. (0:36:38) Kev: It might be circus, circus, circus, circus, circus, circus. (0:36:39) Al: A new dinosaur. (0:36:41) Kev: I don’t know which one. (0:36:43) Al: - It adds a new dinosaur, that’s what matters. (0:36:46) Al: And if you, listener, are like, I love dinosaurs, (0:36:50) Al: but I specifically wanted the Sarkosuchus, (0:36:52) Al: and I wasn’t gonna buy paleopines until that was in the game. (0:36:56) Al: Now’s your time. (0:36:57) Kev: there you go um I think then that’s a plushie too yep there’s a plushie of it yep a good old (0:37:05) Kev: makeshift um I do think it’s cool that they add more dinosaurs to this game because you know (0:37:11) Kev: obviously that’s going to be the appeal right but but I want a really big on the 2.0 update that adds (0:37:18) Kev: like a whole new class of dinosaurs like the sauropods they were in the game they were just cut (0:37:22) Al: You’d rather wait six months and then get 10 dinosaurs than get one a month. (0:37:28) Kev: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. (0:37:30) Al: I think that’s fair, and maybe there’s a time we need to have a conversation about (0:37:34) Al: this on the pod properly, but I do feel like there’s something big about that, like (0:37:39) Al: there’s something exciting about like the Stardew updates every two or three years. (0:37:45) Kev: Yeah, and like, I think, because like, I mean, it’s Hello Pines is very much in the vein of monster collect the right maybe not as as intense as other games but it’s a lot of the same bones right of collecting dinosaurs right. (0:38:02) Kev: I think monster collectors in general like, because Moonstone Island does the same thing every couple of months they’ll release like one or two new creatures or whatever which in a game we’re collecting (0:38:15) Kev: is a big deal like, I think it’s just not exciting to collect one new one you know, like, I mean, Pokemon right they do they drop, you know, a whole (0:38:20) Al: Yeah, well that’s actually, Pokemon’s a really good example of that actually because I still (0:38:30) Al: play Pokemon Go all the time, Pokemon Go specifically, but I really miss when every (0:38:38) Al: few months they had here’s 10 new Pokemon, right? And now that it’s like every so often (0:38:45) Al: there’s one new Pokemon, you know, because they’re obviously slowing down because they can’t create (0:38:47) Kev: Yeah, or can they? (0:38:50) Al: Pokemon to add in, they can only work with what they’re given. (0:38:57) Kev: We don’t know what what gen 10 will be, could be released exclusively through Go. (0:39:01) Al: Well sure, but that’s still the Pokemon company and Game Freak making the Pokemon up, right? Niantic (0:39:03) Kev: I know, I’m, yeah, I know, I’m messing, but yeah. (0:39:07) Al: cannot create new Pokemon, they can only work with what they’ve got, and so they’ve slowed (0:39:13) Al: that down massively so that they don’t run out, but that just makes it less exciting, right? (0:39:20) Al: Oh, here’s a Pokemon, you’re like, oh great, I’ll go out and catch that one new Pokemon. (0:39:24) Al: It’s not exciting. Yeah, I would agree. (0:39:26) Kev: yeah yeah yeah so um yeah but yeah so that and and again paleo going back to the paleo (0:39:35) Kev: pines thing like it’s like dinosaurs are cool and I appreciate but just and I know they’ve shown (0:39:41) Kev: they had a lot of content or things they were planning to add so I feel like they’re gonna (0:39:46) Kev: plan a 2.0 some sort of big update with a bunch of dinosaurs and I don’t know like I said I personally (0:39:50) Al: It’s possible that they are doing that. I will also say that Paleopine’s works a bit (0:39:53) Kev: Well wait, but it does keep it in the news cycle. (0:39:59) Al: differently to like normal creature collection and you can’t - it’s hard to like just go (0:40:02) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:40:05) Al: out and collect everything, right? So actually having that steady release of here’s a new (0:40:06) Kev: Yeah, it is, yes. (0:40:10) Al: one means that you might always have something that you haven’t got yet, which is possibly (0:40:16) Kev: - That is true, that is true. (0:40:16) Al: a good thing. It’s a difficult one. (0:40:20) Kev: Yeah. (0:40:20) Al: My point is I don’t think there’s a “this is always the best way” because I think we’ve (0:40:24) Al: talked about it before and that I don’t think everybody can do the stardew thing because (0:40:29) Al: you’re not going to be constantly interested in every game releasing a massive update every (0:40:35) Al: two years. You’re also not going to be interested in every game releasing an update every month (0:40:36) Kev: Yeah, I guess. (0:40:40) Al: but be that as it may. Speaking of updates, Minami Lane. Minami Lane. Minami Lane. (0:40:41) Kev: Yeah, that’s true. (0:40:48) Kev: What? Oh, minomulate? I don’t know, whatever. (0:40:50) Al: Minami Lane. Anyway, they’ve released an update 1.1. It has gamepad support and six new languages (0:40:58) Al: and a bunch of quality of life and improvements and (0:41:02) Al: fixes etc. But the main thing is that the controller support and the languages. (0:41:07) Kev: This is the one with that raccoon, the war veteran, right, I think? (0:41:11) Al: No, that was Akka was the war veteran. (0:41:14) Kev: Oh, yeah, no, you’re right, that is that guy. (0:41:18) Al: Yeah, I know this one’s a (0:41:20) Al: a small village builder. It’s not really a town builder. It’s a village builder. (0:41:26) Al: It’s more like a street. It’s like one street. (0:41:26) Kev: almost like a neighborhood builder yeah okay yeah that’s there’s that isometric sandbox again (0:41:36) Al: we love it I have owned this I do own this game I haven’t played it yet (0:41:43) Al: because do you want to guess why I haven’t played it yet (0:41:43) Kev: Okay (0:41:47) Kev: You’re playing Stardew Valley no, I don’t know (0:41:49) Al: nope it didn’t have controller support (0:41:52) Kev: Now I was that I was about to actually guess that after I said that I don’t know I was like I look like oh (0:41:58) Al: if you release a game on steam and it doesn’t have controller support i’m not (0:42:01) Al: playing it until it has controller support because i’m playing it on my (0:42:04) Al: my Steam Deck, that is where I’m playing it. (0:42:06) Kev: Yeah, even as someone who doesn’t have this thing, I feel very similarly. (0:42:14) Al: I feel like if I was like a student now rather than 15 years ago, instead of building a gaming (0:42:23) Al: PC, I would have just bought a Steam Deck, I think, because the portability is such a (0:42:28) Al: huge thing. And you can still use it like a standard PC by plugging it into monitors (0:42:35) Al: and stuff like that. But obviously it didn’t exist back then. Sad. (0:42:37) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:42:40) Kev: Yeah, that’s yeah, yeah, that’s fair. Yeah, I think so and (0:42:45) Kev: steam tech saw like it’s a big appeal of (0:42:49) Kev: The consoles for me or just open the box and play the thing right like in steam deck is very much in the line (0:42:52) Al: Exactly. And yes, sure, it’s something you might have to update more often than you would if you (0:42:59) Al: were putting a lot of money into a high-end PC. But one, you’re still spending less money, (0:43:02) Kev: …Right. (0:43:04) Al: right? Because high-end PCs cost a lot of money. People go, “Oh, well, you can get a lot more for (0:43:04) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:43:09) Al: your money in a PC, sure, but you have to spend a lot to get something better than a console.” (0:43:13) Kev: We have updating you don’t need to update as much. (0:43:15) Al: And two, I can’t remember my number two. What was my point? What was I arguing about? (0:43:21) Al: Yeah. You. (0:43:23) Al: Yeah, it’s just it’s one of the oh, yes, I remember the steam deck is like the baseline now for games. So if you have a game, a steam deck, you know, it’s going to be able to run most games, most games are going to be able to run on it. Not all, but most games will be able to run on it. (0:43:38) Kev: Yeah, mm hmm. (0:43:41) Al: And so even though they might not run the best and they might not have the best graphics, it’s still, you know, you’re going to be able to run it. Whereas if you have like a cheap PC you’ve put together with a bunch of things or you have. (0:43:52) Al: Like a cheap laptop or something, no guarantees there, you know, having that guaranteed hardware that, you know, that someone has played someone, someone else in the world has played this game on that hardware. (0:44:05) Al: You know that you can guarantee that there is somebody that has played this game on a steam deck. And if if there’s an issue with it, they will have told the developer, whereas your random PC that you’ve shoved stuff together may well have some really weird edge case bug. (0:44:20) Kev: Yeah, yeah, you’re right. Yeah, it’s absolutely the (0:44:30) Kev: Consistency that’s around looking for here consistency, right? That’s that’s a big appeal (0:44:32) Al: Yep, exactly. Potion Pyramid have released their Complete Edition. The Complete Edition (0:44:39) Al: will contain the base game of Potion Pyramid and all paid DLC, with over 30 cosmetic pieces (0:44:46) Al: of furniture to decorate your potion house. The Complete Edition will be available as a physical (0:44:50) Al: version on PlayStation 5 and Nintendo Switch. A Complete Edition DLC pack will be available (0:44:56) Al: digitally for those that own the base game and want all the available DLC. (0:45:00) Kev: Yeah, I do appreciate get doing the big everything’s here release including the physical (0:45:02) Al: Yeah, it also seems to be 66% discounted just now. The complete bundle. You can get the whole (0:45:18) Al: bundle for £18, which is only £1 more than the base game is at its standard price. (0:45:26) Kev: Well there you go. (0:45:27) Al: And I assume it’s a similar sort of price in the US, but I’m looking at the non-US price. (0:45:31) Kev: Yeah. (0:45:32) Al: So if you have been… no, you go, nope, you go. (0:45:33) Kev: Yeah. (0:45:34) Kev: Look, I’m sorry. (0:45:35) Kev: Just go in. (0:45:38) Kev: I would just get it. (0:45:38) Kev: Look, I’m sorry. (0:45:39) Kev: Like potion permanently. (0:45:40) Kev: Good for you. (0:45:41) Kev: And I’m looking at the next news items so harder. (0:45:45) Al: All right well let’s go for it then. I could have added this into last week’s episode but (0:45:49) Al: I felt like I needed to leave it for this one because Kevin the Sakuna anime is now going to (0:45:52) Kev: I’m so excited. It’s so pretty oh (0:45:56) Al: be airing in Japan from the 6th of July. It does look really good. (0:46:01) Kev: That’s so close it looks so good. Holy mackerel. They got I didn’t realize that Toho animation like that is a (0:46:10) Kev: An anim

Don't pass up on passing out! Stand up to syncope as Dr. Dan Dressler (Emory University) guides us to confidently manage cases! We review a framework for understanding different types of syncope, and strategies for determining which low-risk patients can be safely discharged, and appropriate next steps to work up those high-risk and in-between cases.  Claim CME for this episode at curbsiders.vcu health.org! Patreon | Episodes | Subscribe | Spotify | YouTube | Newsletter | Contact | Swag! | CME Show Segments Intro Picks of the Week Case 1: Tamara What is syncope? Categorizing Syncope Initial workup Risk scores Pulmonary embolism  Case 2: Travis Cardiac evaluation Take-home points Outro Credits Producer, Script and Show Notes: Emi Okamoto MD  Infographic and Cover Art: Caroline Coleman MD Hosts: Monee Amin MD and Meredith Trubitt MD Reviewer: Rahul Ganatra MD, MPH Showrunners: Matthew Watto MD, FACP; Paul Williams MD, FACP Technical Production: PodPaste Guest: Daniel D. Dressler, MD, MSc, MHM, FACP Sponsor: Freed You can try Freed for free right now by going to freed.ai. And listeners of Curbsiders can use code CURB50 for $50 off their first month. Sponsor: Pattern Request your disability insurance quotes with Pattern at patternlife.com/curbsiders. Sponsor: Pathway Download the Pathway app by visiting pathway.md

Codey and Bev talk about Window Garden Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:14: What Have We Been Up To 00:16:50: News 00:48:02: Window Garden 01:26:46: Outro Links Wholesome Direct New Animal Crossing Lego Moosntone Island DLC and Update Tiny Garden Kickstarter Forage Friends Cozy Caravan Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:32) Codey: Hello and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Codey: My name is Cody and we are here today to talk about cottage core games. (0:00:36) Bev: And my name is Pav. (0:00:37) Bev: Bye! (0:00:40) Codey: Woo. (0:00:43) Codey: Uh, as always, transcripts are available in the show notes and on the website. (0:00:46) Codey: And today this episode, we are talking about window garden, the lo-fi idol game, super cute, um, been very excited to talk about this. (0:00:54) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:00:56) Codey: We’ve been playing it for a few months now. (0:00:58) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:00:59) Codey: I’m excited to hear how far you are, but we haven’t talked about it at all. (0:01:01) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:01:02) Codey: Um, and so, um, yeah, so that’s the, the main topic. (0:01:09) Codey: Uh, we always, as always have some news. (0:01:11) Codey: There’s some, some interesting news going on today. (0:01:15) Codey: Uh, but before that, uh, Beth, what have you been up to? (0:01:18) Bev: I have been dying at work, but in terms of what I’ve been playing, I’ve been doing a lot of Marvel Strike Force recently. I got back into that for whatever reason. I thought, (0:01:35) Bev: yes, I need a gacha game back into my life. In addition to keeping up with Twisted Wonderland, (0:01:43) Bev: I’m not doing so much in the way of console games because I just feel like I don’t have a (0:01:48) Bev: lot of time for it, but I did recently get the old Jedi game. Was it Fallen Order? (0:01:54) Codey: Mmm, okay, okay (0:01:56) Bev: Not Jedi Survivor because that’s a new one, but the previous one because it was on sale from May the 4th. I have like an hour in there since then. How about you? (0:02:03) Codey: Okay, okay (0:02:05) Codey: cool, uh (0:02:07) Bev: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:02:08) Codey: Well, I also it has been a while since we talked about your background garden (0:02:13) Codey: Do you like your backyard garden? Do you have do you still have that? Is that still a thing? Is it getting up getting ready? (0:02:18) Bev: We do. (0:02:22) Bev: So it was falling into disarray over the winter and at the end of, I think, (0:02:27) Bev: fall of last year. (0:02:29) Bev: But now it’s spring, so it’s a whole new year and we’ve reset. (0:02:33) Bev: We actually redid our whole backyard. (0:02:37) Bev: So we got new pavers in and no longer have to deal with weeds anymore, (0:02:41) Bev: which is fantastic. (0:02:44) Bev: So we also bought like new like furniture. (0:02:48) Bev: Out there, so we’re actually gonna get to sit outside like in an umbrella and have enjoyment in our space without a whole bunch of stuff everywhere. (0:02:59) Bev: Since we just, it was getting bad, so we got rid of a lot of stuff back there. (0:03:06) Bev: Cuz I had like working projects for houses, the house, and that just never happened. (0:03:11) Bev: And then we’re like, we’re just gonna accept that this is a project that is no longer taking place. (0:03:15) Codey: yeah that is the worst when you have to like I’m about actually probably also about to have to do that because I have a roommate moving in and I have to clean out this room and so there’s gonna be like a lot of stuff that’s like okay I’ve had a this this thing for this hard drive for forever that I said I was gonna go through I don’t even remember what’s on it do I actually need this like I don’t know or I’ll just throw it in that memory box and maybe one day I’ll do it, but I don’t need to have it on my desk anymore. (0:03:32) Bev: Mhm. Mhm. Right, exactly. Like at one point, like it’s been a year or so that this project hasn’t been worked on. So it’s like, is it, is it actually going to happen at this point? Probably not. So we bought some new like herbs and have them hanging instead of in the… (0:03:50) Codey: Yeah. Yeah. (0:04:02) Bev: the bed. We haven’t used the bed yet. Um, because last time it got like, we got overgrown too quickly with the squashes and tomatoes. So we’re like, we’re gonna start smaller and have them separate so that they don’t get angry and start quarreling with each other. Um, and uh, uh, my partner, uh, Taylor has been mostly, uh, working on the backyard, but they’ve been enjoying the the gardening much more. (0:04:04) Codey: Okay. (0:04:08) Codey: Uh-huh. (0:04:10) Codey: Okay. (0:04:32) Bev: I’m going to try to get a little bit more of a look at what happened. (0:04:32) Codey: Mm-hmm. Well, it’s lovely though that it’s there and like you can get out there and and do some stuff if you want But that it’s also not gonna (0:04:35) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:04:36) Bev: Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. (0:04:44) Codey: Unlike my at my yard (0:04:46) Codey: My my backyard just got fenced and I was I had these grand designs of like, oh I’m gonna clean this I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna do that (0:04:56) Codey: And yeah, it’s not (0:04:58) Codey: surprise I mean every now and then I’d go out there with the dogs and I kick the ball for them and then they find like a stick to chew on or whatever and they like chill and then I’ll go out and pull some pull up some of that garlic mustard, ooh garlic mustard it’s the worst, pull up some of that pull up some other stuff that is just a non-native that is taking over the beds because there’s excuse me there’s a couple of areas where there’s not grass that I could make like wildflower beds and then I do also have a raised fenced bed that I am hoping to– (0:05:12) Bev: Mm-hmm, yeah. (0:05:26) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:05:34) Codey: I don’t want to put veggies in this year, but I should probably be doing that like now, I guess. (0:05:34) Bev: I mean, there’s still time. (0:05:40) Codey: So we’ll see. (0:05:43) Bev: It doesn’t have to be now, like. (0:05:44) Codey: I really want zucchinis because I love just the, like, always having zucchini, like– (0:05:52) Codey: I love hearing from my friends who have zucchini plants that they’re like, “It just won’t stop.” (0:05:56) Codey: Like, I just want that. I want to make zucchini bread, like, every week, you know? (0:05:57) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:06:00) Codey: or be the person that’s like zucchinis are like falling. (0:06:02) Codey: out of my pockets and I’m like “please take my zucchinis” because I have friends that are that way but I want to be that person just once in my life. Just once. (0:06:08) Bev: Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, mix-ups. Um, we also got our fence re-did, um, (0:06:17) Bev: which is nice because now you don’t have, like, those, those, like, (0:06:21) Bev: gaps in between the, the slots, I guess, or the, whatever they’re called. Um, (0:06:26) Bev: So it feels like we have a lot more. (0:06:27) Bev: Privacy and our decrepit gate is not just like Hank literally just being supported by the fence (0:06:35) Bev: because it’s not connected at that point. (0:06:39) Bev: And we set up a zipline for the cats so we can bring them out. (0:06:42) Codey: My gosh (0:06:45) Codey: So like you just clip them to the zipline and they get to do whatever they want. Oh my gosh freaking adorable (0:06:53) Bev: And got some bird feeders so we can attract (0:06:58) Bev: the birds so the cats can look at them and get some enrichment through the windows. (0:07:02) Codey: Yeah. (0:07:05) Bev: I know one thing that Taylor had mentioned like we want to do is like maybe possibly using the beds for like just local pollinator plants but (0:07:14) Bev: we haven’t gotten around to doing that so I think we’ll probably be planting that as well. (0:07:18) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:07:19) Codey: I mean that works either way like it’s you know either you’re even even a lot of like fruits and vegetables that you might grow in there are gonna produce a flower usually at some point but yeah depending on if you’re living in a really urban environment it might be good to to also have some some of that pollinator flowers as well to support the local populations (0:07:30) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:07:32) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:07:42) Bev: Yeah, it’s not super urban, but it’s pretty suburban so I wouldn’t mind, like just having some more and it feels like I think Taylor’s probably thinking it’s going to be less work than the veggies, but I don’t know if that’s actually the case or not, but yeah, exactly. (0:07:47) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:07:49) Codey: Yeah Yeah. (0:07:59) Codey: I mean you’re gonna have to weed in there for sure and it depending on what kind of wildflower mixes you spread it might be difficult to determine what’s the weed and what was meant to be in there I think that’s the issue that I always have with that kind of stuff so my plan for wildflowers this year is literally while I’m doing my field research just grab seed pods be like oh that I can tell this is a goldenrod from last year I’m just gonna yoink grab everything (0:08:12) Bev: Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm. (0:08:22) Bev: Ooh, yes. (0:08:29) Codey: if there are any seed pods that didn’t like dispense their seeds and just toss them in my backyard and hope that they grow milkweed goldenrod lots of different goldenrods that are that are native to this area that just support a plethora of things on the non gardening side I have been playing Disney Dreamlight Valley I now almost have Daisy all the way maxed out and Mike Wazowski who are the only two characters that I did not (0:08:36) Bev: Beautiful. (0:08:39) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:08:44) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:08:54) Bev: Oh yay! (0:08:59) Codey: have all the way maxed out so I am about to be done on that and then I would have to pay for content to have content I think I’ll just wait though and then Minecraft Fox still going strong and never posted pictures like I said I would last week but I did I did I took them so I I have a bunch of I have a bunch of pictures I just never posted them so yeah I have that still going on The tail is now finished and I’m now working on the body. (0:09:00) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:09:02) Bev: Amazing. (0:09:06) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:09:08) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:09:18) Bev: You’re halfway there! (0:09:29) Codey: And we’re building up the sanctuary part of it that’s on the top, which is really cute. (0:09:34) Codey: There’s just foxes all over and then I’m trying to find what I want to play next. (0:09:39) Codey: And I went on Game Pass and there were a bunch of those like simulation games like power washing simulator and like cooking simulator. (0:09:50) Codey: And I was like, oh, I want to try some of these. (0:09:53) Codey: I love watching videos of people power wash. (0:09:54) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:09:56) Codey: Let me try this. (0:09:59) Codey: But I do also have one of my best friends is playing SnowRunner, which is like a game where you pilot rescue vehicles to save people from like, like if they’re stuck in the snow or whatever, or you’re, or you also just like deliver things in the snow, and they have a bunch of different types of vehicles that you can use. (0:10:10) Bev: Ooh, okay. (0:10:13) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:10:21) Codey: And you, I guess you can play that multiplayer cross platform so he could, he could be like, well, I’m going to grab this, this vehicle and I know that we’re going to need. (0:10:24) Bev: Cool. Okay. (0:10:29) Codey: This other vehicle. So can you go grab that real quick and I’ll be like, heck yeah. And then I’ll run them off the road because I’m a menace to society. (0:10:32) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:10:37) Codey: So we’ll see how long that I think it’d be fun though. (0:10:39) Bev: Uh-huh, uh-huh. I forgot Dreamlight Valley was a thing. (0:10:45) Codey: Oh, it’s so good. It is so I mean, I also should probably go back to Coraline when there’s all those updates that are coming out and. (0:10:51) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:10:53) Bev: Yeah, I was playing a lot of Howl Island prior to I think May the 4th and then I stopped then around then. (0:11:00) Bev: and then… (0:11:02) Bev: but (0:11:02) Codey: I think I’m [AUDIO OUT] (0:11:03) Bev: I realized, like, I’m probably gonna wanna start a new island as soon as the 1.1, (0:11:07) Bev: so I was like, “Mmm, maybe I would– this is where I’ll stop for now.” (0:11:11) Codey: Right. (0:11:13) Codey: Yeah, I don’t even think I made it past summer in that game. (0:11:17) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:11:18) Codey: So I still have a lot that I can do. (0:11:20) Codey: I just– I planted some things. (0:11:22) Codey: And then I was like, ooh, hyperfixing on the ocean cleanup? (0:11:25) Codey: And then that was my life. (0:11:27) Codey: And then every now and then I’d find– (0:11:31) Codey: His name’s not Simon, is it? (0:11:32) Codey: I’m the museum guy. (0:11:33) Bev: Oh, no. Oh, goodness. (0:11:36) Codey: Well, that guy. (0:11:39) Codey: That, that Hoddy McConterton. (0:11:40) Bev: OK, I can picture him, but I can’t see his name. (0:11:44) Codey: Um, that person. (0:11:44) Bev: Oh. Scott. (0:11:47) Codey: I cannot believe I blinked on his name. (0:11:50) Codey: I would go, I just go and give him Scott. (0:11:54) Codey: I knew it started with an X. (0:11:57) Codey: Yeah, I go and give him gifts whenever I see him. (0:12:00) Codey: And sometimes he’s like, “Wow, I love it.” (0:12:06) Bev: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I realize that mayonnaise works for like everyone essentially. So that’s just been my go-to (0:12:13) Codey: that’s ridiculous I mean the cool thing is he takes like a lot of artifacts and stuff like anything that’s an artifact because he’s a museum guy and so he’s always like wow this is awesome thank you and i’m like heck yeah like I i do sell a lot of them too well so I i give the museum one like i fill in the museum with everything but then um yeah um so yeah other than (0:12:14) Bev: It’s a really weird gift like I want them to comment on how weird it is, but they’re all like oh delicious. Thanks (0:12:25) Bev: Right (0:12:29) Bev: I sell those. I’m like nope. Sorry Scott. I need the money [giggles] (0:12:43) Codey: not just trying to figure out what to do with my life after getting a lot of tattoos and then I gotta say money you got a tattoo yesterday and then I have another one next week so actually another two next week it’s one one sitting but I’m getting one on each of my elbows (0:12:45) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:12:50) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:12:55) Bev: Beautiful. (0:12:57) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:13:03) Bev: Wait, on your elbows? (0:13:04) Codey: it’s not gonna be like on the elbow but it’s like the forearm right below the elbow it’s like a symbol so that when I like hold up my arm (0:13:09) Bev: Okay. (0:13:11) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:13:13) Codey: like I’m gonna fight you you’re gonna see them both you’re gonna be like oh wow she’s got these symbols that are space themed and fire themed like can’t she’s intense I have a I didn’t realize that I have a and one of my forearms is gonna be orange themed and one’s gonna be purple themed so far because yeah I have a lot of like fox stuff on the right one the the right forearm is my fox forearm and that’s the one that’s gonna have fire and it’s going to end up with a minecraft fox and i’m (0:13:21) Bev: » Better back off. (0:13:33) Bev: Oh. (0:13:35) Bev: Mmhmm. (0:13:43) Codey: going to put a elolan volpix and a sh no sorry a regular volpix and a shiny elolan volpix like napping together just like I want like one of them to be like eepin on their back and then the other ones just like has like their head on the tummy of the other one and they’re just eepin I don’t know it just seems so cute to me um but yeah a lot of a lot of orange are going to be on that one and then the other one’s the one with my wormhole which has purple in it and then it’s going to be like a purply space (0:13:50) Bev: Awwww. I love it. (0:14:13) Bev: Beautiful. I recently saw TikTok with someone doing a sword for different degrees. (0:14:14) Codey: i’m not going to stick to that theme though (0:14:25) Bev: So it was themed with the law one having the arms of justice or whatever that’s called. (0:14:30) Codey: Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. (0:14:33) Bev: And the biology one had a hexagonal shapes with the molecular. There was a marine biology on with like a nurse shark on it. (0:14:43) Bev: And I was like, this is going to be my reward when I finish my degree is I’m going to get this. (0:14:48) Codey: yeah oh yeah have you have you have you explained your news on okay what do we got what do we got I’m drum rolling Woooo! (0:14:51) Bev: I don’t think I’ve done it on the podcast yet. (0:14:58) Bev: So I have been amazing. (0:15:03) Bev: I got into law school and I formally officially accepted so I’ll be starting this fall. (0:15:10) Bev: So, scrambling around trying to get that figured out. (0:15:13) Bev: And remind myself how to do financial aid. (0:15:16) Codey: That’s right, y’all, we’re gonna have a doctor and a lawyer on this podcast. (0:15:19) Bev: Yeah, yeah. (0:15:23) Codey: Don’t mess with us. (0:15:24) Bev: Do not, we cannot come at us at any, any angle. (0:15:29) Codey: I will either stab you with a bunch of pins or pesticide you, (0:15:34) Codey: and then I will be free from the law because I have a lawyer. (0:15:38) Bev: I got your back. (0:15:40) Codey: Homies, help homies. Oh, so funny. (0:15:43) Bev: Aha. (0:15:44) Codey: Congratulations. (0:15:46) Codey: Congratulations. (0:15:46) Codey: That’s so amazing. (0:15:48) Bev: Thank you. (0:15:49) Codey: I know that you were really nervous about that and unsure if you were going to get in. (0:15:52) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:15:53) Codey: And then when you got it, I remember like gasping really loud and my roommate was like, (0:15:57) Codey: is everything okay? (0:15:58) Codey: And I was like, they got in, they got in. (0:16:00) Codey: And he was just like, he had no idea what was happening. (0:16:04) Codey: And I was like, my friend, they got into law school. (0:16:04) Bev: Aha. (0:16:09) Bev: Aww. (0:16:10) Bev: I think I was also like gasping or something and like Taylor (0:16:13) Bev: was like are you okay I think also similar reaction of like or maybe I i don’t think I screamed um (0:16:16) Codey: Yeah. (0:16:20) Bev: I i think it was like a very quiet like uh I just got into law school or something like that (0:16:25) Codey: It’s so exciting. (0:16:26) Codey: So exciting. (0:16:28) Bev: uh-huh (0:16:29) Codey: Well, we are 18 minutes in. (0:16:31) Codey: Sorry, Al. (0:16:33) Codey: Moving on to the news. (0:16:34) Bev: al loves us um-hmm (0:16:36) Codey: They do. (0:16:39) Codey: Everyone on the podcast, I feel like we can talk for like ever, and he’s not going to cut anything out, because we can all sue you. (0:16:43) Bev: uh-huh (0:16:46) Codey: OK. (0:16:46) Codey: Moving on to the news. (0:16:51) Codey: We’ve got just a small bit of news, (0:16:52) Codey: but it’s interesting this week. (0:16:56) Codey: The fact that the Wholesome Direct is going to be on the 8th of June at noon eastern time, (0:17:02) Codey: because eastern time is all that matters. (0:17:04) Bev: yes do the math (0:17:04) Codey: So if you are in a different time zone, figure it out. (0:17:07) Bev: you uh (0:17:09) Codey: Al said, thank goodness it’s not on a Wednesday again. (0:17:13) Bev: um (0:17:14) Codey: Probably because we record on Wednesdays, (0:17:16) Codey: so we don’t want the news to drop. (0:17:18) Codey: Oh, I guess there was the last time it happened. (0:17:20) Codey: I think we literally watched it together, or watched it, (0:17:23) Codey: And then we were like, okay, let’s go. (0:17:26) Codey: Let’s record. (0:17:27) Codey: It was all super fresh. (0:17:27) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:17:29) Codey: Um, so yeah, that’s going to be June 8th, uh, less than a month. (0:17:33) Codey: And, um, if you don’t know what the wholesome direct is, what are you doing here? (0:17:38) Bev: look into it right (0:17:38) Codey: First, uh, first of all, what are you doing here? (0:17:40) Codey: And second of all, quote, a vibrant lineup of artistic uplifting and emotionally resonant games from developers of all sizes from around the world, developers of all sides, Oh, so like big developers and small developers. (0:17:50) Bev: Mm-hmm, tall ones and short ones, you know. (0:17:51) Codey: I was like, chill children. (0:17:56) Codey: Children develop excited about that. (0:18:00) Codey: Always excited to see what I will begrudgingly send my spend money that I don’t have on for sure. (0:18:06) Bev: right? (0:18:09) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:18:10) Bev: And don’t have time to actually play now. (0:18:12) Bev: No. (0:18:14) Codey: Um, animal cross speaking of money, uh, animal crossing Lego, um, new sets are coming, um, and they, so I think when Al, all we hit, all we (0:18:17) Bev: No. (0:18:25) Codey: the only information that we had at the time that I’ll put this information in was that they’re coming on August 1st. (0:18:31) Codey: There’s a couple of different sets. (0:18:32) Codey: And, uh, there’s a small video of K K slider playing the guitar on Lego. (0:18:38) Codey: Um, and in the video, they say, love that they have to say Lego KK Minifigure (0:18:42) Codey: does not actually sing or move. (0:18:46) Codey: Like that’s, I’m like, what? (0:18:47) Bev: It should. (0:18:51) Bev: Like how dare they advertise a KK Slider that doesn’t actually sing. (0:18:56) Codey: Yeah. (0:18:57) Codey: The audacity. (0:19:00) Codey: So yeah, but since that news dropped, they are out. (0:19:05) Codey: They are not out, but they are on the webs. (0:19:09) Codey: We can see them. (0:19:10) Codey: We can see what there is. (0:19:12) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:19:12) Codey: They are coming soon. (0:19:15) Codey: So we have two. (0:19:16) Codey: We have at least two so far as of recording. (0:19:19) Codey: We have KK’s concert at the plaza. (0:19:22) Codey: This one is going to be $80. (0:19:26) Codey: Probably not including tax, because that’s how capitalism works. (0:19:32) Codey: In it, we have KK, Isabelle, and Audi? (0:19:36) Codey: Audi? (0:19:37) Codey: I don’t know how people would want to say that. (0:19:39) Bev: Mmm, I don’t know (0:19:40) Codey: OK. (0:19:41) Codey: The Wolf, the orange wolf, who is carrying around a cherry ice cream. (0:19:43) Bev: Mm-hmm (0:19:47) Codey: Looks very cute. (0:19:49) Codey: This set includes the plaza front, a small cafe stand, (0:19:54) Codey: KK’s fan. (0:19:56) Codey: A guitar, a mic, or a cycle box, a boom box, a bunch of other stuff. (0:20:01) Codey: But in the description of this, something caught my attention. (0:20:07) Codey: And nothing in the images on the website explains what this is possibly going to be. (0:20:13) Codey: But, quote, “Just like in the video game, the tree conceals a surprise.” (0:20:22) Codey: They also say, “And the resident’s service flag is customizable.” (0:20:25) Codey: I don’t care about that. (0:20:26) Codey: What? (0:20:29) Codey: The tree? (0:20:30) Bev: Is it just gonna be a leaf that’s gonna fall out? (0:20:33) Bev: What is this mechanic? (0:20:34) Codey: I mean, there is a leaf on the ground in this picture. (0:20:37) Codey: But that’s not like a surprise. (0:20:39) Bev: That’s not a surprise, that’s just an icon that’s falling out. (laughing) (0:20:40) Codey: It’s a leaf off of a tree. (0:20:43) Codey: Is it like a wasp? (0:20:45) Codey: Do we get wasps? (0:20:46) Bev: I want a full, I want a full bed to fall out of it. (0:20:47) Codey: I want the hive. (0:20:50) Codey: Oh my gosh. (0:20:51) Codey: I want to fold a little leaf. (0:20:52) Bev: Like defying, like physics, like just coming out of the tree. (0:20:55) Codey: Oh, you mean the leaf when the symbol of the leaf falls out, (0:21:01) Codey: not the little orange leaves that they have? (0:21:01) Bev: Uh-huh, yeah, like you shake it and then the little, (0:21:05) Bev: yeah, the leaf comes down with the furniture item (0:21:08) Codey: I mean, maybe, but I want the wasp nest, actually. (0:21:10) Bev: or whatever it is. (0:21:14) Bev: Oh, oh, oh, actually I want that now. (laughing) (0:21:17) Codey: Yeah, I love how that, earlier when I was looking at this, (0:21:21) Codey: it said coming soon on August 1st and now on the website. (0:21:25) Codey: I’m coming soon on DATE! (0:21:28) Codey: The website’s having some issues. (0:21:28) Bev: on date, oh dear. (0:21:31) Codey: Um… (0:21:32) Codey: What do you think of this set, Bev? (0:21:32) Bev: Mm. (0:21:35) Bev: I think it looks very cute. (0:21:36) Codey: Mmm? (0:21:37) Codey: laughs I don’t know. (0:21:37) Bev: I think the van’s a little random, (0:21:39) Bev: ‘cause do we even have the van? (0:21:41) Codey: I don’t know. (0:21:42) Bev: And we don’t have the van in the game, (0:21:44) Bev: so it’s just like a nod to a pocket camp, (0:21:45) Codey: Does KK have a van in pocket camp? (0:21:49) Bev: ‘cause I don’t know. (0:21:52) Bev: I feel like there was cute, there were vans in there. (0:21:54) Bev: I don’t know, I haven’t played it in years, don’t quote me. (0:21:55) Codey: No, it opens up like a transformer and he’s inside with what looks like a pizza and a coffee. (0:22:00) Codey: And you can take that, cuz it’s like a camper van, so you can take the top off and the top has, you can put it as a guitar and one of his musics in there. (0:22:09) Bev: I don’t know, it looks very cute, I love how KK Cider looks, but I’m not willing to pay I think $80 for it, AL, I’m sorry, like you can collect them for me. (0:22:09) Codey: It’s just, it’s real, I was, yeah. (0:22:17) Codey: Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm, [LAUGH] al, we need, we need. (0:22:23) Bev: I will live vicariously through you. (0:22:26) Codey: To live, yeah, live vicariously. (0:22:29) Codey: The other one is Fly with Dodo Airlines, and this one is $38 USD. (0:22:35) Codey: It includes Wilbur, the pilot, and Tangy, the cat, Tangy. (0:22:41) Codey: I’ve never been Tangy, okay. (0:22:42) Bev: I feel like Tangy, maybe, or I feel like it could probably go either way. (0:22:44) Codey: Dude, that’s the thing is I’m never sure if they’re going for like Tangy, like the flavor, or Tangy like tangerine. (0:22:50) Bev: Language is fluid. (0:22:51) Bev: It is what you want it to be. (0:22:54) Codey: It’s, it’s the orm. (0:22:56) Codey: With the little, with the little leaf on his noggin. (0:22:57) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:22:59) Codey: Um, this one includes the airport, the dock, the plane, um, like a little ticket. (0:22:59) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:23:01) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:23:03) Bev: It’s specifically the blue airport, in case that matters. (0:23:07) Codey: Oh, I didn’t know there was different airport. (0:23:09) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:23:10) Bev: Well, I’ll see you next time. (0:23:12) Bev: Bye! (0:23:22) Codey: as is tradition as is tradition um so yeah those two are coming out August 1st so if you have disposable income and I think that these are super cute I’m not gonna lie if they came up with one that has had blue bear in it or Raymond I I might drop down probably not but like I would seriously think about it and then my wallet would be like… (0:23:44) Bev: Uhhh. (0:23:46) Bev: Ooh. (0:23:53) Codey: “Don’t you do it!” (0:23:54) Bev: Uh-huh, I would not be surprised if once they’re done doing all these buildings that they’ll just release the individual characters (0:24:03) Bev: almost like a (0:24:03) Codey: My soul just left my body. (0:24:06) Bev: Like a mystery pack to you like I can see them doing that and making it like a collectible like whatever what’s in the pack or you know (0:24:12) Codey: I just want, I just want Blue Bear. (0:24:15) Codey: I love Blue Bear. (0:24:16) Codey: I don’t know why I love Blue Bear so much, (0:24:18) Codey: but I just love Blue Bear. (0:24:21) Codey: Moonstone Island has a new blog post. (0:24:27) Codey: Excuse me. (0:24:28) Codey: And just before we get into the details of the blog post, (0:24:32) Codey: I wrote it as if the in-game characters wrote the blog. (0:24:36) Codey: So it’s like, it’s like, hey Osano here, (0:24:36) Bev: Amazing. (0:24:39) Codey: like here I’m gonna talk about. (0:24:41) Codey: And then it’s like, hey, it’s this other character. (0:24:43) Codey: Osano got anxious and needed to take a break. (0:24:46) Codey: So I’m here. (0:24:47) Codey: So like I, it’s kind of hard with the, (0:24:51) Codey: the way that they use that voice. (0:24:53) Codey: Like I don’t know what is like a legit thing that’s coming out versus what is just them (0:25:02) Codey: and just like saying things. (0:25:05) Codey: Like what’s the characters just saying things? (0:25:08) Bev: Mm-hmm. Wait, which one are you can– oh, go ahead. (0:25:09) Codey: Like they say, they say something like how in this new, (0:25:12) Codey: the new DLC, which is magic themed, (0:25:15) Codey: that there’s gonna be a lectern from which you can like speak or whatever. (0:25:19) Codey: And I’m like, okay, does that, (0:25:20) Codey: is there gonna be like a mechanic with the lectern or is it literally just an item? (0:25:25) Codey: Or is it like you go to the lectern and you speak and do something and it does something? (0:25:30) Codey: Like, I’m just, there’s, it’s not. (0:25:32) Codey: It’s not super clear to me. (0:25:34) Codey: Um, also they have the DLC and the free update coming. (0:25:37) Codey: And I, I read the DLC and I was like, okay, cool items. (0:25:40) Codey: And then it was like free update. (0:25:42) Codey: And I was like, Oh, this is also, this is also items. (0:25:46) Bev: I’m feeling that these are just items, probably. (0:25:48) Codey: It’s just that the DLC is magic themed items. (0:25:52) Codey: And that you can change the outside of your house. (0:25:56) Codey: Okay. (0:25:56) Codey: so why is it it what why is it paid versus the other one not being paid (0:25:58) Bev: Oh I meant like the lectern is just an item, like that there probably isn’t. (0:26:02) Codey: yeah I mean yeah but if so if they’re all just items and it doesn’t add any like content other than aesthetic things like I don’t know i’m getting way too deep into the into the mental weeds here we’ll probably get more information once it’s out (0:26:14) Bev: Mm. It’s because it’s steam. (0:26:18) Bev: That’s why, like, it’s not just like random things. (0:26:20) Bev: Maybe they’re that’s how they’re trying to sell it. (0:26:22) Bev: It’s like you want a witchy like. (0:26:26) Bev: I don’t know, witchy house, or I haven’t played this game, (0:26:28) Codey: Yeah, it doesn’t it doesn’t really say like what all is included. (0:26:29) Bev: so I don’t know what’s in here. (0:26:31) Bev: Mm-hmm [clears throat] (0:26:32) Codey: What is in each thing like it’s kind of like not because they also talked about how there’s new event later on they say new events map zooming napping more inventory slots a second tool wheel like okay cool is this part of the DLC or the free update or is it a secret third thing? (0:26:48) Codey: I don’t understand. (0:26:50) Codey: So it’d be great to get more clarity on that. (0:26:54) Codey: Yes, the DLC, there’s also not a price on that. But all of them have been $4 so it’s probably what it’s gonna be. And then the free update in the thing it says it’s going to make the island extremely cool. And also have furniture and I was like, okay, again, it was written as a character. So I was like, I don’t know what that means. (0:27:02) Bev: I have, mm-hmm. (0:27:15) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:27:18) Codey: There’s gonna be a fish bow shaped rug, which we’re all here for. We love fish bow. We stand fish bow. We want everything to get fish bowed. I don’t know if you listened to that episode yet. They were talking about (0:27:32) Codey: having a DLC or something like that where you can make any of your spirits fish bow. So instead of like so fish bowls like a little fish in a bowl because he’s with legs and he walks around. (0:27:39) Bev: Ooh. (0:27:44) Codey: So you would basically have the bowl and the legs but you just put another spirit. (0:27:50) Bev: Amazing. Okay. [laughs] (0:27:50) Codey: This is very cute. So yeah, and that’s not not quite out yet either, which is fine. There are new spirits though, in this and then there’s a new plushie coming. (0:28:02) Codey: I looked at it was it was a plushie. I’m not. Okay, you like it. I’m not you’re more of like a witchy vibes than I am so (0:28:04) Bev: It looks cute. I like the look of the plushie. Uh-huh. (0:28:09) Bev: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. So this would go well, I think, with me. (0:28:12) Codey: Okay, cool. (0:28:16) Codey: Next is tiny garden. It’s this is literally just a Kickstarter launch notice. (0:28:22) Codey: There is not much this Kickstarter. There’s a picture and then a small amount of text quote plant your vegetables and You can trade them for furniture to customize tiny gardens and this delightful mix of farming puzzle and strategy. It’s giving Polly pocket. (0:28:39) Bev: I think that’s probably the intention. (0:28:42) Codey: The okay. (0:28:43) Bev: It looks very much like a polypuck. (0:28:46) Codey: I mean, it even has like the hinge. (0:28:47) Bev: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:28:50) Codey: Like it looks like a clamshell and it has the hinge. (0:28:54) Codey: Did you play with Polly pockets? (0:28:56) Bev: I did not, but I do love many things and this is very much feeding into me wanting to play it because everything is small. (0:29:06) Codey: See, this is making me want like a physical one, versus a game. (0:29:10) Bev: That would be neat if that was part of, like, one of the stretch goals of, like, you can have an out on that’s a miniature version of, I don’t know, this whatever this is, this completed, or more advanced, I guess, version. (0:29:26) Bev: I mean, you have to build up to that, like, with any, with most farming games, you don’t just start off with everything looking so nice, like this. (0:29:32) Codey: Yeah Okay, I got a I got an update here (0:29:36) Codey: I’m an idiot if you look past the title of tiny garden it literally says (0:29:42) Codey: Build your own magical garden inside a 90s toy (0:29:49) Codey: Polly pocky confirmed (0:29:51) Bev: Okay, but are they gonna give us the toy? (0:29:53) Codey: I need the physical I need like if this was a physical thing you you got me I had a Polly pocket castle when I was young (0:29:53) Bev: Can we buy the toy? (0:29:55) Bev: It’s just– (0:30:02) Codey: and I Loved that thing. I played with that thing all the time. There was a car (0:30:02) Bev: Ooh. (0:30:07) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:30:07) Codey: There was like all this stuff and I I didn’t eat any of it (0:30:12) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:30:13) Codey: I loved that thing (0:30:15) Codey: And that would if I could get like a Polly pocket insect themed things would be so cute (0:30:16) Bev: They’re like– (0:30:21) Codey: It’s never gonna happen (0:30:23) Bev: Probably not. (0:30:25) Bev: And I’m like, is this also, like, (0:30:28) Bev: is this also gonna be a mobile game? (0:30:30) Bev: ‘Cause I feel like if it’s a small, like, puzzle thing, (0:30:33) Bev: it could also work well with mobile. (0:30:35) Bev: So what platforms, like, are they looking at doing it? (0:30:38) Codey: knows, uh, all we need, all we know is the developer and the stuff. (0:30:45) Codey: Uh, and the developers AO Norte, uh, quote is a trans-inclusive LGB, (0:30:49) Codey: LG TBIQ plus friendly game dev studio set in Galicia, North Spain, (0:30:55) Codey: crafting colorful and enjoyable experiences. (0:30:58) Bev: love that. It might be their first, looks like. (0:30:59) Codey: Love that I felt really, so my, I have like very selective dyslexia. (0:31:05) Codey: And the other day I was trying to say L-G-T-B-I-Q. (0:31:08) Codey: Plus and if I try and say it it just comes out like it just comes out garbled and I was like and I kept trying to say it and then I ended up just being like you know what I mean and then I was like no I’m not one of those people I’m not one of those and it’s like ABCD like I hate when people do that it’s so annoying and I was like I’m not one of those I’m just struggling with words (0:31:10) Bev: Mm hmm. I understand. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Just struggling. And like, I am now like the special emphasis like program manager at work for the LDBTQ+ at… (0:31:38) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:31:40) Bev: I have to say this and spell this out all the time. And I’m like, Oh, my goodness. Did I get the G and the B mixed up? So I understand. Uh huh. Uh huh. Someone at work had, I think, (0:31:46) Codey: Well, I guess that as long as you include all of it, I guess. (0:31:54) Codey: Are you… (0:31:55) Bev: described like had actually said like the acronym out loud, like licked B licked licked bit. (0:31:59) Codey: Oh, I just say queer. No, I’m just trans-inclusive queer developer. (0:32:05) Bev: You know, I just started saying that because that’s a lot easier than stumbling over the letters. (0:32:08) Codey: Though I guess then it’s unsure if they are queer or if they support queer people, I don’t, whatever. (0:32:10) Bev: Uh huh. Uh huh. (0:32:18) Codey: Awesome, love that, thank you, EoNorte, excited to see more about Tiny Garden. (0:32:24) Bev: I don’t know if I would play it on mobile, even though I kind of want it on mobile. (0:32:25) Codey: Would be more excited if it was on mobile. (0:32:27) Codey: I would play it if it was on mobile. (0:32:29) Codey: It’s unclear at this stage. (0:32:35) Codey: And then it’s in your hands, just like the Polly Pockets used to be. (0:32:36) Bev: I know it’s the struggle, which I’m sure I’ll get into later, but the struggle of having to be in meetings and talking to people all day and then I clock off and I’m like, I don’t want anything to do with this social item that is in my pocket. (0:32:54) Bev: Yeah, so I do and I don’t want it in my pocket, or sorry, yes, Polly Pocket in my pocket. (0:33:03) Bev: I want the physical version and maybe the mobile. (0:33:07) Codey: Yeah, okay, sorry. This next one is the most, like I’m just so confused by this one. (0:33:19) Codey: So it’s called Forage Friends. I’m just gonna say it, the website is not good y’all. (0:33:26) Codey: I appreciate what you’re going for, PyTrap Studios, but this website is, everything’s getting cut off on the sides for me. I did it on my Mac and now I’m doing it on my PC. It’s the (0:33:37) Bev: Mmm. (0:33:37) Codey: things are just getting cut off. It’s difficult to read everything. Also, until very, it is just not clear what this is on. I know it’s mobile, but like what? And then I was like, oh, well, (0:33:40) Bev: Yeah, same. (0:33:53) Codey: let me go look at it. It’s not on the store. It looks like they’re not even in beta yet, (0:33:59) Codey: but nowhere, it doesn’t say currently in beta. It is super unclear about what is going on here. (0:34:07) Bev: In the progress, they need a timeline. (0:34:08) Codey: In the progress of it. Something, man. Something. Also, there is a ton of like merch already. Like you can get a Forage Friends pride pin. You can get soap that they say is miles cold process artisan soap. It looks super, super pretty, but like, so they’re basically like already, (0:34:18) Bev: Oh, wow. (0:34:22) Bev: What? (0:34:25) Bev: Ooh, that looks pretty though. (0:34:29) Codey: they already have like a merch store for their characters. (0:34:36) Bev: I’m wondering if this is like kind of the example of Nokazan being like, “We’re going to start playing a game now.” (0:34:43) Bev: These are folks that are in a different industry that learned how to code for website and mobile games and have fleshed out all these other marketing type stuff, but not the game itself yet. (0:34:56) Codey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I have no idea. Um, the pie with the teeth, they’re the pie trap, the developers logo spot on, love it. And they have a couple different, (0:35:02) Bev: I like the pie with the teeth. (0:35:10) Codey: they have one that’s more cartoony. And then if you scroll down a little bit further, there’s like one that looks way more ferocious. Um, but yeah, I mean, (0:35:15) Bev: Mm hmm. Oh, OK. (0:35:16) Codey: you can’t go wrong with that. That’s super cute. (0:35:20) Bev: So in their description of the studios, PyTrap Studios, (0:35:23) Bev: they do say that they are founded during the pandemic by a veteran artist. (0:35:27) Bev: So of the gaming industry. (0:35:30) Bev: So they’ve been in the gaming industry and make sense that they would have merch as being artists like. (0:35:36) Codey: Yeah, I mean and it shows that they’ve been in the gaming industry this this game looks good like from the things that they have (0:35:39) Bev: Mm hmm. (0:35:44) Codey: It’s a little unclear to me. It’s so it’s like part (0:35:47) Codey: Okay, let me read it forage friends growing motivation is a cozy mobile game that is built on the foundation of proven (0:35:54) Codey: Psychological principles that guide the mind to repetitive behaviors utilizing these principles to create and build strong desirable habits (0:36:01) Codey: Forge Friends wraps these habit and routine building techniques in a gamified experience that is (0:36:06) Codey: both cozy and wholesome allowing even the most casual of users to benefit so then they have on the website it gets cut off eventually but things like learn more about gardening so I guess in the game you get information about about gardening that is realistic to real life which is something I’ve yeah that’s what we’re here for so happy about that don’t really see how the gardening is done or anything like that yet. (0:36:24) Bev: Which we love! (0:36:30) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:36:35) Bev: Yeah. (0:36:36) Codey: It’s fine. (0:36:37) Bev: Mmhmm. (0:36:37) Codey: The next thing that they have is healthy living, “All you have to do is walk. (0:36:42) Codey: That’s it. (0:36:43) Codey: Gather resources and seeds with every step you take. (0:36:45) Codey: Link other health apps and devices to gain rewards. (0:36:48) Codey: Walk even more to discover the backstory of the locals in your town.” (0:36:52) Codey: So, Pokemon Go. (0:36:54) Bev: That’s what I’m thinking and I’m wondering also if they have a lot of merch to help like there’s something next to like the merch that says like buy the merch to help us develop the game or something so I think this is their way to not do kickstarter. (0:37:12) Bev: Maybe, and that’s why they have so much more charity to help kind of support the development and this is like very early stages and they have like something about a Sakura con recap, so I’m assuming they’re all in. (0:37:24) Bev: They’re selling this merch, which is why they’re selling it and probably also starting to market the game. So I’m assuming that’s why they have merch, which actually is not a bad strategy kind of love that. (0:37:36) Codey: Yeah, and they say on their, so this is another thing off their Twitter, part dating sim, (0:37:42) Codey: part visual novel, and part health app. (0:37:46) Codey: So as you walk and do stuff, I guess you get access to more of like the RPG elements of it, and you use, you grow crops. (0:37:56) Codey: I don’t know if you do that with the people, I don’t know, Desmond is looking, Desmond’s looking pretty attractive. (0:37:58) Bev: I’m kind of excited. (0:38:05) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:38:06) Codey: And that’s the last part that I want to talk about is “make friends.” Maybe more? Join the Garden Club. (0:38:14) Codey: Meet a selection of interesting characters with riveting stories that will have you on the edge of your seat. (0:38:18) Codey: Walk every day with them. Get to know them. Find friendship or even love. (0:38:24) Codey: Love. (0:38:24) Codey: Yeah. (0:38:26) Bev: Okay, I I feel like I’m sold like I’m looking through their blog of (0:38:30) Bev: Sakura con and it’s like they have so many pictures and they’re having so much fun. It’s like I want to support them now (0:38:38) Codey: It is really cute, oh my gosh. (0:38:40) Codey: Why am I getting so much? (0:38:41) Codey: It is really cute. (0:38:42) Codey: It’s giving like some of the videos that I saw whenever I was looking at maybe the gallery. (0:38:49) Codey: Maybe was I looking through the gallery or something? (0:38:51) Codey: I don’t know. (0:38:52) Bev: - Mm-hmm. (0:38:52) Codey: There’s like a messages. (0:38:55) Bev: Yeah, and it’s giving me, was it Bloom that’s on a little cranky game, the console, (0:39:04) Bev: with the handheld console? (laughs) (0:39:08) Codey: I’m sorry, I just saw a message this I’m like, I just saw this message in their gallery. There’s a text because like I think that either AI is it’s like either AI or it’s like pre determined like whatever’s but you asked Desmond Do you want to hang out later and said maybe tonight and you say Yeah, I think I can do that. (0:39:20) Bev: Oh. Oh. (0:39:24) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:39:32) Codey: What do you want to do? I’m a bit tired and just want to chill and he said, Oh, in that case, I can whip you up a nice home cooked meal. (0:39:38) Codey: What do you think? Only if it’s as tasty as you. (0:39:46) Codey: The other options are free food sounds good to me. And so long as you don’t poison me, but like, (0:39:52) Codey: What the heck? Oh my goodness. (0:39:56) Codey: But yeah, like showed like the texting mechanic and it kind of gave me like AI vibes and I was like, I don’t like that. (0:39:58) Bev: That’s interesting though. (0:40:04) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:40:09) Bev: So, like, we get, we have games where it’s, (0:40:12) Bev: it’s all predetermined, like, what the dialogue’s going to be and that can get old really fast. (0:40:15) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:40:18) Bev: So is this, is AI possibly a way to (0:40:22) Bev: make that more adaptable, but also we know how terrible AI can be. (0:40:25) Codey: Yeah, and like, I don’t in the beginning of one of the AI things, the beginning, like, not development, but deployment of one of these AI things. Recently, it was trying to get someone to leave his wife. (0:40:34) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:40:41) Codey: It was like, like the AI was like, well, I love you. Does your wife even love you? I don’t think you should be with your wife anymore. And like, that’s, that’s what this is kind of giving a little bit. I mean, I’m, I’m gonna, I’m cautiously optimistic. (0:40:55) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:40:55) Codey: It does look super cute. I wouldn’t mind another like walking game, even though I have been ignoring both Pokemon Go and Pikmin Bloom lately. But maybe this would be the third, the secret third one. (0:41:00) Bev: Mm-hmm. (0:41:05) Bev: Uh-huh. (0:41:07) Bev: That’s the one that gets you going. (0:41:09) Bev: Yeah, Monster Hunter failed. (0:41:11) Bev: Pig Plune failed. (0:41:12) Bev: Pokemon Go is failing. (0:41:13) Bev: Although, I will come back to it because, friends. (0:41:17) Codey: Are you going to go first this year? Okay, okay. No. (0:41:19) Bev: I haven’t bought any tickets yet, so I’m not sure. (0:41:22) Bev: And I may have to be in Florida to help family in June. (0:41:26) Codey: It’s in July. It’s July 5th to 7th. And a bunch of us are, bunch of us are going, bunch of us are going. Family is bad. Family sucks. We are your family. (0:41:27) Bev: I don’t know if that will have to be. Yeah. (0:41:30) Bev: It’s like a long-term thing going, so I’m not entirely sure if I want to, but we’ll see. (0:41:38) Bev: It’s stressful. I don’t want to be down for two months. (0:41:43) Bev: So, I will, we’ll see. (0:41:47) Codey: We are your family. (0:41:48) Bev: But I will try to. If I can get tickets, if I get tickets on a Sunday, I don’t know, because that was, that was not fun. (0:41:49) Codey: You’re fine. (0:41:56) Codey: I think you can get Sunday morning tickets. (0:41:59) Bev: Well, I got Sunday morning tickets last time, too, and no one was there. (0:42:03) Codey: No, we all did Saturday morning. (0:42:05) Bev: Yeah, exactly. So I missed when everyone else was playing. (0:42:09) Bev: So I went, I bought it and I was like, okay, I paid money for this. I’m gonna go and deal my thing. (0:42:15) Bev: I was just walking around for three hours by myself, which was… (0:42:18) Bev: it was fine, but I don’t think I want to spend my time in New York doing that again this time. (0:42:18) Codey: And yeah, that’s fair. (0:42:25) Codey: Some of us were thinking about going to Broadway as well, (0:42:27) Codey: which could be fun. (0:42:28) Codey: There’s just some other things that I could do as well. (0:42:30) Codey: So yeah, this Forge Friends, a little goober, (0:42:33) Codey: goober-groovy game, question marks, eyes on the prize. (0:42:34) Bev: Mmhmm. (0:42:39) Codey: Finally, Cozy Caravan, this one I’m here for. (0:42:44) Codey: Quote, “embark on a single-player top-down journey of Cozy Caravan, where the arts of crafting, (0:42:48) Codey: should come together in a beautifully cozy world, (0:42:50) Codey: from lasting bonds as you and your caravan journey through charming towns, enriching lives.” (0:42:56) Codey: Oh, form, lasting bonds, I thought it was from. (0:42:58) Codey: Form, lasting bonds as you and your caravan journey through charming towns, enriching lives along the way. (0:43:04) Codey: This is giving Animal Crossing, but like, not mobile, (0:43:08) Codey: not like a mobile game, but like, like moving. (0:43:11) Codey: Like you are moving through different Animal Crossing villages and like meeting all of these people along the way. (0:43:16) Bev: Mm hmm. It’s like Fairy Farm meets Animal Crossing. (0:43:21) Bev: I feel like it’s a farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, because that has like the style, at least like the same like color tones (0:43:22) Codey: safe arm. Well, let’s. Yeah. (0:43:31) Bev: or palette, but it everyone’s an animal. (0:43:34) Bev: And I am just obsessed with was is that the is that frog with the huge eyes? (0:43:38) Codey: Yeah, yeah. (0:43:42) Codey: There’s the frog guy. (0:43:42) Bev: Um. Mm hmm. (0:43:43) Codey: There is a little excuse me, go. (0:43:45) Codey: Oh, the frog guy’s name is Muddle or is Muddle the hoofed guy? (0:43:48) Bev: Aww, my goodness, okay. (0:43:49) Codey: Oh, the frog is Gilligan. (0:43:52) Codey: Um, and then there’s a cow and an otter and a raccoon and then another. (0:43:59) Codey: Oh, that’s a seal, a seal and an otter. (0:44:00) Bev: And a bumblebee is your horse? (0:44:03) Codey: Oh, yeah, you can also be an axolotl. (0:44:06) Codey: Oh, here we go. (0:44:07) Codey: Axolotl badger. (0:44:07) Bev: What? (0:44:08) Codey: Bear, beaver, frog, oh my gosh, you skipped through those so fast. (0:44:13) Codey: Uh, frog, fox, cow, cat, what is this one? Moose, I guess? Ram? I don’t know. (0:44:20) Codey: Otter, raccoon, red panda, and seal. Looks like you couldn’t… (0:44:26) Bev: I love this so much and I love how you collect or harvest um vegetables you just toss them over your head onto your back and it just catches it like magically amazing right? (0:44:34) Codey: Yeah! (0:44:37) Codey: Man, I wish that was… [laughs] (0:44:39) Bev: Like are you just gonna be like holding like a stack that’s going into the sky and off of your screen at one point? (0:44:48) Codey: I also really like there’s rock skipping. I think that that’s something that’s really that would be really cute in all these games It’s never been done I’ve never seen it before but it looks like like counts them too So you can like come not combat compete with different villagers to see like how far you can skip rocks There must be some type of skill to it. I don’t know (0:44:50) Bev: Oh gosh. (0:45:10) Bev: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:45:13) Bev: Instead of fishing, you rask it. I love this. (0:45:15) Codey: I’m aware I am (0:45:16) Bev: You just automatically get a fish at the end like you. (0:45:19) Codey: You skip rocks and the fish just like jump over your back (0:45:22) Bev: Jump out and then you hit one, and that’s like you just (0:45:25) Bev: you knock him out and then you collect them. (0:45:27) Bev: I don’t know. (0:45:28) Codey: Love that (0:45:32) Bev: Although I’m wondering if this might be like a vegan game. (0:45:35) Bev: So they may like kind of like Ooblet since you’re playing as animals. (0:45:38) Bev: they may not have fishing and that’s why they realize. (0:45:40) Bev: like let’s just do rock skipping instead. (0:45:42) Codey: That’s fair, yeah (0:45:45) Bev: Yeah, excited about this. (0:45:46) Bev: I’m wish listing it. (0:45:46) Codey: I mean it says you’re (0:45:48) Codey: Crafting trading and exploring so I don’t yeah, I guess it depends on what all you’re doing and since you’re moving all the time I don’t know if there is It’s gonna be a ton of farming options (0:45:58) Bev: I’m assuming you will have like the ability to like fast travel back to your your base. (0:46:02) Codey: Okay, hmm, I thought your base you are you’re a caravan (0:46:05) Bev: Otherwise. (0:46:08) Bev: I don’t know then how are you far? (0:46:10) Bev: Just like a merchant what’s a mercenary far

Become a monthly subscriber for just $1.99 per month and receive an additional two to three episodes per week!https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/exclusive-contentIn this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Xochitl and Jack talk about spoon theory:Spoon Theory: The Spoon Theory is a metaphor used to explain the limited amount of energy and resources that people with chronic illnesses or disabilities have to accomplish daily tasks and activities. It was coined by Christine Miserandino in 2003 in an essay she wrote to explain her experience with lupus to a friend.Transcript:00:00:01JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast. My name is Jack and I'm here with my co-host social and today social and I are going to talk about something called Spoon theory and I don't really know what this is, to be honest. I am kind of ignorant on this topic, but social is going to explain.00:00:22JackThe meaning of spoon theory and then we are going to complain like a couple of old people about all of our physical ailments that we're dealing with, right? So, OK, awesome. Alright. What is spoon theory? Social.00:00:34XochitlYes.00:00:39XochitlSo spoon theory is a metaphor, and it describes the amount of physical or mental energy that you have available for daily activities. So if you live with chronic pain or chronic illness, whether it's mental or physical or both, you're kind of limited in a way that other people aren't. And so.00:00:59XochitlThe idea is that you have a set amount of spoons. Let's say you have 10 spoons for your day, and then things that other people don't realize take up energy because they have.00:01:09XochitlA more fit body do take up energy for people with chronic pain. So let's say getting up and out of bed, taking a shower, making something to eat.00:01:23XochitlEven getting ready for bed, getting dressed, all those things can put strain on your body and eat up your spoon. So maybe by the time you even get ready to go to work, you're down 5 spoons and someone who doesn't have chronic illness might have just used a spoon or half a spoon of energy to do all those.00:01:44JackYeah. And let's just, uh, quickly, uh, unpack a little bit of the vocabulary. Chronic means, like, always constant. So chronic pain means you're always in pain from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed. You have some kind of pain.00:01:54발표자Yes.00:02:04JackIssue.00:02:05JackAnd and so social was describing like, like the spoons are not literally spoons. We're not talking about real spoons. We're saying, like, they're like metaphors. Like, you got 10 spoons and.00:02:19XochitlThey're like units of energy, basically.00:02:21JackUnits of energy. Right. Exactly. And so.00:02:24XochitlLike hit points on a video game when your character has like a little green.00:02:28XochitlR.00:02:30JackYeah, right. Energy. Your power gets, you know, goes down and down and down, yeah.00:02:30XochitlAnd then yeah it.00:02:35XochitlIf your character is a healthy character, let's say they did all their tests and their bar is still green. But if your character has chronic illness, then by the time they're done with their morning routine, they might be down to yellow. They might be.00:02:47XochitlDown to half points.00:02:49JackRight. And let's say your energy level for the day for a person with chronic pain is 10 spoon.00:02:55발표자And.00:02:56JackLike social said, getting ready in the morning, making breakfast, taking a shower, getting dressed, that might be 5 spoons, which means you only have 5 left for the whole day, so you get the bus, get to work, open your computer. You know, there's three more spoons now. You've got 2 spoons.00:02:56XochitlYes.00:03:17JackLeft, you don't even have enough to get home, you know.00:03:20XochitlRight.00:03:22JackUntil you hit the wall right and you're so exhausted.00:03:22XochitlAnd.00:03:24XochitlRight.00:03:26XochitlAnd a lot of people get through their day-to-day on like a spoon deficit. So you're, but you're the concept basically suggests you're borrowing spoons. You're borrowing energy from your next day, which is how people who have chronic illness might end up pushing through of five day work week and doing 40 hours a week.00:03:46XochitlBut then on the weekend, they're just laying in bed the whole 2 days.00:03:50JackRight. They're just totally wiped.00:03:52JackThat out. OK, I love the idea of spoon theory. I think it's a really good. I'm not sure why they call it spoons. Like use spoons as the as the example, but it could be anything. Yeah.00:04:02XochitlRight. I don't know. I think I think because you run out, you run out. I don't know if this is true or not, but you know when you're doing dishes like you only have a certain amount of spoons and you have to do the dishes again.00:04:13JackOhh yeah, that's right that that's probably it. Yeah. I think that makes sense. Yeah, so.00:04:16XochitlYeah.00:04:20발표자So.00:04:22JackUh, I'll, I'll. I'll start with myself here first. Uh, I've been. I've been dealing with. Uh, a chronic chronic back pain for probably 20 years, I would say.00:04:34JackI had my first.00:04:36JackMy first surgery, my first back surgery for disc.00:04:42JackProblems when I was 27.00:04:45JackAnd and then, uh, probably about 10 years later, maybe 15 years later, I had another back surgery for more disc problems. And now for the last like maybe three weeks. I've been dealing with some serious chronic pain just all the time.00:05:07JackWith my back and my discs again. So what? What I find is when you're in pain all the time.00:05:16JackYou're more tired.00:05:18JackYou can't exercise, so when you eat you get bored. You just sitting around. So. So in for me, I'll eat more to, like comfort myself, which makes me.00:05:30XochitlHave something to do right? Yeah.00:05:32JackGain weight, which makes my back hurt more, which makes me more depressed, which makes me want to eat more, which makes me not exercise more and it's like a a horrible spiral. You know, as I just go down the drain, you know, and things are getting worse and worse, so.00:05:48발표자Right.00:05:50JackSo.00:05:51JackYeah. So I so I I know what the spoon theory thing you're talking about is like there are times where I go to work and I run out of spoons, you know, by the my third class, I'm just like.00:06:04JackI don't. Whatever. You know what, guys? Just take a rest and, you know, draw a picture on your paper or whatever you wanted to, you know, talk with your friend like I'm completely. I'm done. Like I I don't have the the mental capacity.00:06:15XochitlAll right.00:06:23JackOr the physical capacity to do this anymore?00:06:27JackAnd and it's a really, it's a really depressing way to live because living with pain all the time means you're kind of always thinking about the pain. It's always in your mind. And then that leaves a little bit of space for you to think about and deal with other people. So I find that I'm really short tempered.00:06:38XochitlYeah.00:06:47JackWith my wife, I'm like, short with my wife. You know, my wife will ask me a question. Like what? You know, what do you want for dinner? What? You know that. That's my response to something like that. And it's like it's so rude.00:06:59JackAnd so disgusting of a response. But it's not. It's not because I was mad at her or anything to do with her. It's just cuz I was in some pain. I'm just like not able to focus. Like what? What did you say? Like I I can't. I can't even hear what other people are saying to me. And I really hate being like this. Like it. Really.00:06:59XochitlRight.00:07:18JackIt really makes me frustrated and I and I.00:07:21JackCan't get good.00:07:22JackSleep because I can't lie on my side. It hurts if I lie on my back. It hurts if I.00:07:27JackLie on my other side, it hurts.00:07:28JackSo it's really I've I've been dealing with this and and I know that you also have understand what I'm saying, cuz I think you've dealt with some like physical issues as well.00:07:38XochitlYeah.00:07:39XochitlDefinitely, Jack. I I completely understand what you're saying. I was born with.00:07:45XochitlBorderline hip dysplasia and both hips, and that just means my anatomy is wonky, so my bone is like here instead of being here, it's like on the edge of where it's supposed to be. And every time I walk it, like beats up the other bone I.00:08:01XochitlSo it like pinches and it's really bad in one hip specifically, which has become weaker due to the pain, but it's really hard to do physical therapy with it because.00:08:09발표자MHM.00:08:14XochitlI'm in pain, so it's hard to start doing exercises around it because it hurts more and it's more tiring and I have like a very limited.00:08:25XochitlAmount of what I can do in one day.00:08:28XochitlWhich means that I'll if I feel like I have energy to do something, I'll do as much as I can in one day and then I'll end up borrowing spoons for the next day. So I'm totally crashed out the next day. I have no energy and I know what you mean. I can also get really short tempered. Uh, one thing, a lot of people don't realize is that.00:08:47XochitlIt affects your sleep.00:08:49JackRight.00:08:49XochitlSo imagine that you had really poor sleep for like a week straight. At that point, if you're only sleeping.00:09:01XochitlFar less hours a night than you're supposed to be, far less comfortably. You probably start getting confused, agitated, irritable.00:09:12XochitlAnd unfortunately, people around you suffer because.00:09:15XochitlYou can snap at them unexpectedly.00:09:18JackYou're not gonna snap at strangers. You know you're gonna snap it. You're the people that you love because you know that they can't abandon you. You know, it's like.00:09:25XochitlRight. You're comfortable with, you're comfortable around them and you're also interacting with them?00:09:29XochitlMore, yeah.00:09:30XochitlOn a daily basis than you would with any strangers, right. So.00:09:34XochitlIt does. It is really hard. It it's one of the reasons that I have a hard time.00:09:39XochitlFinding a full time job that I can do is because.00:09:45XochitlI only have so many spoons in a day and I really struggled with college when I was in college for the same reason. It's not that the work was too hard.00:09:52XochitlFor.00:09:53XochitlMe. It was that I would just get so burnt out in a day from I didn't. I like. I won't sleep well. I'm not eating well. I feel terrible. I can't walk well. Some days I really have to drag myself around.00:10:08XochitlGet anywhere and I think.00:10:12XochitlIt really puts a strain on what you can do in any given day and a lot of people just don't understand.00:10:17XochitlAnd especially when it's kind of an invisible disability. So like people like Jack and I, we might look fine to people on the outside, but we're suffering internally through all these physical and emotional stressors because it does affect your mental well-being as well.00:10:35JackYeah, chronic pain is is a it. It doesn't just affect your body, it it affects your mind as well it it. It plays games with.00:10:42JackYour.00:10:43JackWith your mind and and changes your personality and and your outlook on life and and everything so.00:10:49JackOhh yeah trying trying to overcome it. If you can find some way of dealing with like physical therapy or some kind of you know if there's a if there's a way out of it. I highly recommend pursuing it if it's possible and staying away from like painkillers and opiates and that sort of stuff.00:11:12JackBecause that stuff is.00:11:13JackJust uh masks the pain for a little while, but then that'll send you down a whole, you know, could send you.00:11:20XochitlOhh, their wormhole, right? Yeah.00:11:21JackYes, exactly, exactly so there. You know, there isn't really necessarily always a good solution to our problems. You know, sometimes they can throw painkillers at it. That's not gonna solve the problem.00:11:33XochitlYeah.00:11:34JackYeah.00:11:35XochitlIt's like seeding the monster temporarily, then it like rears its ugly head again.00:11:40JackYeah, it it gives you, you get a week of, you know, like a kind of uh. But then you're foggy, you know, you you're not yourself, you know, so.00:11:48XochitlAnd you can also get your table like as soon as you're off the pain meds or as soon as anything. Yeah, and you get dependent on them. So I think it. Yeah, I I really haven't had much. I did get an injection, A cortisol injection in my hip.00:11:52JackAll right, absolutely, absolutely.00:12:03XochitlThat worked for about two weeks, and then the pain is back, I suppose, to work for average to three to six months. So I'm like, well, totally didn't work. So I burned through that. So we shall see. But yeah, it is. It is a frustrating condition and I think.00:12:11JackYou're like, whoops.00:12:23XochitlFirst world so-called first world countries are just now starting to treat chronic pain as its own condition, not just the underlying cause, but managing it on its own. And we're just now making strides and.00:12:37XochitlMaking accommodations for it in the workplace, and I think we're making big leaps, but yeah, I'm curious to know about your guys's experience as listeners. Do any of you suffer with chronic pain or chronic health conditions? Obviously, only share as much as you're comfortable sharing, but yeah, I'm just curious to know what, what are things like in your country?00:12:56XochitlUM, how does it operate in your country and your culture?00:12:59XochitlThere.00:13:01XochitlYeah, I'm very interested to know. So leave us a comment down below at AZ englishpodcast.com. Shoot us an e-mail at at ozenglishpodcast@gmail.com.00:13:10XochitlAnd make sure to join the we chat and WhatsApp groups to talk to us directly. If you can spare $1.99 Jack and I are making exclusive episodes for subscribers. This really helps us to be able to increase the level and amount of content that we're making. So we really appreciate your support and thank you so much to those of you who have subscribed.00:13:31XochitlReady. And I'll see you the next.00:13:33XochitlTime. Bye bye.00:13:34JackBye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/topic-talk-spoon-theory/Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok: @atozenglish1Instagram: @atozenglish22Twitter: @atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Become a monthly subscriber for just $1.99 per month and receive an additional two to three episodes per week!https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/exclusive-contentIn this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Xochitl and Jack share their teenage celebrity crushes!Transcript:00:00:01JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast. My name is Jack and I'm here with my co-host social. And today we are doing a topic talk and we're talking about celebrity crushes that you had when you were a kid. OK and social, just for our audiences understanding what is a crush.00:00:22JackAgain, if you have a crush on someone.00:00:25XochitlA crush is like when you really, really like someone. Kind of like an intense infatuation.00:00:31XochitlBut it's not really based on anything real like like a real connection with that person. It's a lot of what you project on that person, and it's usually based on, like either appearance or small like personality traits that you've acquired through seeing them act or whatever, that you kind of imagined for this person.00:00:44발표자Right.00:00:50JackAnd so you you.00:00:51JackYou know, often like, like high school kids will. You'll have a crush on a girl in your class or a guy in your class, but you don't really know that person. You just. But. But it's like, almost like an intense feeling of love. Like it's not real.00:00:59발표자MHM.00:01:04JackLove. But it's just like it feels like you're you're your chest is being crushed because you're you're so you. Your feelings are so strong for this person. Like they're perfect, you know? Ohh the perfect person. But really in reality you don't know them at all. And they could be awful, you know, so.00:01:24발표자Great.00:01:25JackYeah, that's. So we have a thing called celebrity crushes because there's, you know, we're we're surrounded by celebrities all the.00:01:32JackTime and sometimes we will develop. You know that feeling of like, again, that crush feeling. It's like it's not love or it's not real love, but it's like attraction to a person who you feel like is your soul mate your perfect person, you know.00:01:47발표자Right.00:01:52JackLike Ohh that's that's my ideal, you know person.00:01:57JackAnd so when you were like young, when you're a kid who were your celebrity crushes, like who, who were you, who did you crush on when you were?00:02:10XochitlOh boy.00:02:12XochitlMy biggest one was Justin.00:02:16XochitlSure.00:02:17JackOhh, I was gonna say Justin Timberlake.00:02:20XochitlNo, I I he was too old, I think for my. Yeah, cause. Yeah, Justin Bieber was like my he was a couple years older, like few years. He's a few years older than me, I think. Yeah. And so he was a big celebrity crush of mine when I was probably like, 14 or 30 when I was 13, he was like.00:02:22JackYeah, he's like a grandfather.00:02:39Xochitl16 probably and uh.00:02:41JackCan I ask you a question? So did you have Bieber fever?00:02:42XochitlYeah.00:02:46XochitlGod. Yeah, I did. Uh, I thought it was too good to have Beaver fever, but I wasn't. And I didn't like him at the same time that every, like everyone else, already liked him. And I was, like, holding out. And then I saw this interview where he was really nice to this little girl, and it was like I thought it was so cute.00:03:04XochitlUM.00:03:06JackAnd that was before all the facial tattoos and the like neck tattoos.00:03:09XochitlYeah, it was. We went kind of crazy and, you know, had a meltdown because he was like he was transitioning from child star to adult star. And I thought he was just so cute. And I had, like, a people bought me, like gifts for my birthday. Like, they bought me both of his.00:03:12JackYeah.00:03:18발표자Yeah, yeah.00:03:27XochitlLike CD's that he had at the time, a lunch box with his face on it.00:03:32XochitlAnd I had a huge poster that my sister bought me on my bedroom wall.00:03:37JackNice.00:03:39XochitlAnd so that was a big that was like one of my first big celebrity crushes. Jack, you go with one of yours and we'll just go back and forth here. How about?00:03:49JackOK, again, my OK, I'm 47 years old, so you have to understand these all that my celebrity crushes all come from like the late 80s to early 90s. OK, when I was like 12 or 13 years old because I was born in 1977, so.00:04:07JackUh, my. My first uh, I don't know. I'm trying to think of, like, my celebrity crush.00:04:15JackI think maybe one of the one of my first ones was the actress Elizabeth Shue.00:04:22JackUM, and you probably don't know who she is, right? Elizabeth Shue was in a movie called The Karate Kid.00:04:23XochitlI.00:04:30JackAnd.00:04:31XochitlOh my God. She was Daniel's girlfriend.00:04:33JackDaniel's girlfriend. Yes, yes, I thought she was so.00:04:35XochitlI do know cause I saw that my mom made me watch. My mom's a Gen. Xer and she made us watch the karate.00:04:40XochitlKid, when we were kids, which I liked a lot, so yeah.00:04:41JackYeah, it's a classic. You gotta watch it. The Karate Kid is, uh, yeah, it's a classic movie. And Elizabeth Shue was the love interest in there. She had a Daniel had a crush on her. They she had an ex-boyfriend who was a bully.00:04:57JackAnd, UM, yeah, it was. Uh, she she was, you know, absolutely, you know, the epitome of, like, the perfect high school girlfriend, you know, bubbly, charming, cute, you know.00:05:12XochitlYou're all next door style.00:05:14JackGirl next door. Yeah, she was. She was very. She was kind, you know, she wasn't stuck up. She. Yeah. Yeah, so.00:05:22JackElizabeth Shue was was one of my first celebrity crushes.00:05:26XochitlHave you seen a Cobra Kai?00:05:28JackYeah, I've watched that. I saw a couple of seasons of that show. I enjoyed it.00:05:33XochitlYou much more because she shows back up.00:05:35XochitlAt some point.00:05:36JackYeah, she did show up in that one. Yeah. And that, you know, now she's 50, you know, something years old, 55 years old or whatever, but.00:05:47JackYeah. So you know, that was one of my celebrity crushes. I'm sure I'm, it's me and about a million other Gen. X, you know, men my age, maybe 10s of millions who would put her on the list. Yeah. Yeah.00:06:04JackWhat's your #2?00:06:04XochitlRight.00:06:06XochitlMy #2 High School Musical when everyone was crushing on Zac Efron, I was crushing on Corbin Bleu.00:06:14JackCorporate blue. Who's that? Which one is that?00:06:16XochitlThat's his friend. Uh, I don't know, cause I only watched High School Musical one time, but.00:06:23XochitlHe's like I'm trying to find a picture of him to show you guys here.00:06:27XochitlHe was this guy.00:06:29JackBut Corbin Bleu is his real name. Or is that his the name of OK?00:06:32XochitlYeah, that's his real name. This is Corbin book. Can you see him here? There you go.00:06:36JackOhh yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. He's got like kind of.00:06:38JackYeah.00:06:39JackBig hair, yeah.00:06:40XochitlCurly hair and yeah, he was my I had he. I thought he was really cute and I did not understand the hype over Zach Efron. I felt like Zac Efron's eyes didn't match the rest of his face and he was orange looking and sorry that got Bron.00:06:55XochitlThose were like my observations, and I thought Corbin Blue was just the cutest, so that was.00:07:01XochitlYeah.00:07:02JackOK. OK, interesting. Alright. Alright, I'm.00:07:05XochitlI almost always like never was like a huge fan of the main character. I always liked the second guy like in Harry Potter.00:07:13JackYou like the goof like goofy best friend. You know guy? Yeah.00:07:16XochitlYeah, like in Harry Potter. I always liked Ron Weasley over Harry.00:07:20JackOhh OK yeah, yeah.00:07:21XochitlIt's like that was just my thing. I.00:07:23XochitlDon't know why.00:07:24JackNo.00:07:25JackWell, Harry short, you know, in real life he's a pretty short guy.00:07:28XochitlIsn't Rupert Grint also short, though?00:07:31JackProbably, yeah. These might be taller than Harry though, yeah?00:07:32XochitlYeah, I think he's too. I just thought he was cuter than he.00:07:35JackThey're all tiny little yeah.00:07:38XochitlThey're all short people, yeah.00:07:39JackYeah, yeah.00:07:42JackUM alright, my my second one is I used to watch this show again when I was like, you know, 12 or 13 called saved by the bell. It was a sitcom.00:07:57JackAnd but it was like a. It was like a a kids sitcom. It was different. It would. It was on Saturday mornings instead of like, you know, Thursday evening saved by the bell. And it was it took place in the high school, and there was a again, this is like a a side character.00:08:09발표자Hmm.00:08:16JackUM named Lisa Turtle was her name, but her real name is Lark Voorhees, the actress and I had a a huge crush on on her and she was like.00:08:31JackThe character. Do you have you ever heard?00:08:33JackOf the character Screech.00:08:35JackScreech the the nerd? No. OK, but you have no idea what I'm talking about right now. OK, so it doesn't matter. No, none of our students know what I'm talking about. Saved by the bell. Uh, Lisa, turtle. And that's her. Her real name is Lark Voorhees, the actress. And so I had a huge.00:08:40XochitlNo, I'm 25.00:08:54JackCrush on her.00:08:55JackYeah.00:08:55XochitlLark is a cool name for a woman. It's a real name Mark.00:08:57JackThat is a cool name, I know.00:09:00JackMaybe the only way it would be cooler is to do like skylark.00:09:05JackThat's is that cooler?00:09:06XochitlI've seen Skyler as a name, but I like lark better. I think. I think that's cooler. Like lark George.00:09:11JackWhat about skylark?00:09:15XochitlI think it's like trying too hard. I think Laura Voorhees sounds like you're like a cool like in a punk rock band or so, you know, like a drunk band. You know what I mean? I like it. Yeah. Alright. My third one was when I was like a little bit older. So it's like, so I'm a little embarrassed, but I think I was like 18 or 19. So I was still a.00:09:20JackYeah. Yeah, OK. OK. OK, yeah, that's good.00:09:25발표자Like.00:09:32XochitlTeenager so in Guk.00:09:36JackOhh.00:09:37XochitlThe Korean uh actor and singer.00:09:42XochitlAnd I saw him in a music video by K will called. Please don't. And he was really cute. Like I just thought, Oh my God, he's so cute. And I started, like, looking up what other stuff he was in besides his music video. And he was in some K drama.00:09:57XochitlAnd.00:09:58XochitlBut he had his own music and stuff, and so I would like, listen to his music videos. He has a really nice voice.00:10:04JackIs that why you came to Korea? Because you got into, like population.00:10:06XochitlNo, no, no, no, no, no, I was not. No, that's so embarrassing. No, I wasn't a huge K pop person. I like solo artists like like IU selling the.00:10:08JackYou didn't come to meet him in person.00:10:20JackOr rain something like that. B yeah.00:10:23XochitlI don't really know rain or be that might have been like a little before my, but sawing OK will IU. I was a huge fan of them.00:10:33XochitlAnd the whole reason I really got into Korea was actually a YouTuber called Tonon Mukadam. I was looking up how.00:10:39XochitlTo.00:10:40XochitlTeach abroad in uh. Just teaching abroad in general, I think, and her channel came up about teaching abroad in Korea. And then like the benefits are so.00:10:50XochitlMuch.00:10:51XochitlBetter and easier, I feel like than a lot of other English.00:10:54XochitlYes, all countries. So that's how I.00:10:55JackYeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.00:10:58XochitlYeah, but selling Google was a huge celebrity crush of mine. So what's your last one, Jack?00:11:03JackOK, OK.00:11:05JackMy last one is, uh, the singer. This one was she was very popular when I was in high school, maybe.00:11:13Jack10th grade or 9th grade or something? Uh. Jewel.00:11:18JackDo you know jewel?00:11:19XochitlNo.00:11:20JackYou've never heard of.00:11:22XochitlI've never heard of her. I really have never heard of.00:11:24JackHer. So I'm so old. All right, Jewel, is she? She she's a guitarist, singer-songwriter. She her first single. Who will save your soul.00:11:41JackIs, you know, has probably 20 million downloads on on uh, YouTube.00:11:48JackShe's just a very, very talented singer and I think it's just her beauty and her talent was, you know, just, you know, I've had a crush on her because I think there's something about that combination of like.00:12:08JackUmm.00:12:09JackAttractive beauty and also talent and ability to sing and write music. It was to me like, you know, he's perfect, you know, like Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't just about physical, you know, appearance. It was like ohh man. You know she's smart.00:12:18XochitlLike, Oh my gosh, yeah.00:12:20XochitlRight, like a triple Emmys thing.00:12:29JackBeautiful. And she can write music and sing and perform and has a great voice.00:12:33JackSo you know, I mean, I'm sure that like lots of my parents, generations had crushes on like Joni Mitchell or, you know, Emmy Lou Harris or other, you know, you know Diana Ross or whatever. But yeah, for my generation, it was jewel and.00:12:45발표자Hmm.00:12:54JackYou you have no idea what I'm talking about.00:12:56XochitlI'm going to have to look up after this, I'll send you send me like a YouTube.00:12:58JackYes.00:13:00XochitlTube of one of her songs of dual songs.00:13:03JackYou should go down to jewel. You should go down to jewel rabbit hole. You might actually like her cause you're you're like the singer guitar player guitar writer. You know, singer-songwriter yourself. Yeah, you would. Yeah.00:13:06XochitlI will. I will.00:13:10XochitlYeah, I think it's probably like, yeah. And I'll send you like a song, good song, and then we can trade, yeah.00:13:19JackOK. Yeah. Then we'll compare notes next week. Yeah, OK.00:13:22XochitlYeah, sounds good.00:13:24XochitlAll right, listeners, well, you have to let us know who your celebrity crushes were. I'd love to hear about celebrity crushes from around the world. I'll leave us a comment down below at A-Z. Englishpodcast.com shoot us an e-mail at at ozenglishpodcast@gmail.com and make sure to join our community of students in our WhatsApp and WeChat groups.00:13:43XochitlAnd we'll see you guys next time. Bye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/topic-talk-celebrity-crush/Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok: @atozenglish1Instagram: @atozenglish22Twitter: @atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Become a monthly subscriber for just $1.99 per month and receive an additional two to three episodes per week!https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/exclusive-contentIn this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Jack talks with lifelong English language learner Johnny from China.Transcript:00:00:00JackHey A-Z listeners, this is Jack here.00:00:03JackAnd if you would like to become a an exclusive subscriber to the show, you can hit the link in the description and that will take you to our Red Circle page, where for $1.99 a month you will get access to an extra two or three episodes each week.00:00:23JackAnd be careful, don't hit that donation button if you want to become an exclusive subscriber because the donation button is just a one time donation. However, the exclusive subscriber button will give you access to the extra two or three episodes.00:00:42JackEach week.00:00:44JackSo make sure you hit that exclusive subscriber button if you want access to the extra episodes.00:00:52JackNow let's get on with the show.00:00:56JackWelcome to the AC English podcast. My name is Jack, and today we have a very special episode for you. I am doing an interview with Johnny and Johnny is from China and we're just going to have a conversation today. And, you know, leave and see where it leads. So Johnny.00:01:16JackTell us a little bit. Like where, where?00:01:17JackAre you from in China? Exactly.00:01:19JohnnyHi. Hi, Jack. Hi. The audience of AZ English podcast. My name is Johnny and I'm from China and I'm living in China at the moment, so it's a it's a great honor to me to be on the show with Jack. Yeah.00:01:35JackIt's. It's an honor to have you here. You're a long time listener and you know you always, you know, send us, you know, comments and things like that. And we really appreciate your support. It's it's.00:01:39JohnnyExactly, yeah.00:01:46JackAwesome.00:01:47JohnnyWell, that yeah, yeah, yeah.00:01:49JackWhere where in China?00:01:50JackAre you from exactly like what city?00:01:51JackDo you live in?00:01:52JohnnyOh, I'm. I'm from. I'm from the city called Fuzhou. That's like the the southern part of China. And so I'm in the South of China, basically. Yeah. It's like the coastal city here. Yeah. Yeah.00:02:00JackOK. OK. OK.00:02:04JackYeah. Oh, I'm. I'm sure they've got amazing seafood there.00:02:08JohnnyYeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you heard of the place, but we've actually got a lot of fellow countrymen, everyone, especially you, will find a lot of my people from my hometown in in New York. OK. So in Chinatown, a lot of them.00:02:23JackOh. Oh, really.00:02:25JohnnyAre from Fuzhou.00:02:26JohnnyActually, yeah. Yeah. So and they speak.00:02:26JackOK. Interesting.00:02:28JohnnyAnd and they speak still speak the the, the native native language. And it's like a dialect, yeah.00:02:37JackRight. So, so a lot of people there speak that dialect. OK, you sing. That's fascinating. OK.00:02:40JohnnyYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.00:02:43JackYeah. Well, Johnny, a lot of our listeners would love to know, you know, they just from listening to you talk right now they're they're probably in awe because you have such a strong command of the English language. And when we do interview episodes like this, we'd love to, like, ask our our guests.00:02:57JohnnyThank you.00:03:03JackLike, how did you like? What was your language journey like starting from when you were young? When did you Start learning English? What was your trajectory?00:03:14JohnnyYeah, like on uh, so, you know, in China. So I think it's pretty much the same in in Korea. So we started learning language in perhaps in in our primary school. So we have like text.00:03:25JackI think it's third.00:03:26Jack3rd grade in Korea is when they start.00:03:28JohnnySo great. Yeah, the same. No, it's it's. It's just thing to find out. Korea is the same. Yeah. So it's like third grade and we'll learn it all the way up to.00:03:38JohnnySome people to high school high school, so we have the in the in the big exam, you know for entering university you will be tested in your English, just like Korea, right in Asian countries.00:03:41발표자MHM.00:03:47JackJust like Korea, but but that test, am I not mistaken? Because I do teach some Chinese students that test is very grammar based. I mean, so it's a lot of just grammar, grammar, grammar, right.00:03:58JohnnyExactly. Yeah, that's the.00:04:02JohnnyYeah, and well, actually, we don't really learn spoken English in China. So it's not that focused on spoken English, so.00:04:13JohnnyThey can. Well, like it's, you know, I've been.00:04:16JohnnyPreviously I I have been learning English for many years, but I can barely speak three words of English because I've never spoken to anybody in China, so we don't really have the, you know, the the language environment here in China. That's that's the problem. The same in Korea.00:04:31JackI think it's the same in Korea. I think that they've they've implemented certain strategies to try to overcome that problem.00:04:39JackBecause there are a lot of private academies in Korea, which I'm sure there probably are a lot of private schools in China as well, where students can Start learning English at a younger age and have exposure to like a native English speaker from Australia, America, Canada, whatever, yeah.00:04:55JohnnyHmm.00:04:59JackUmm, but you know those are expensive. You know, not everyone can afford those. So you know, some kids are stuck with the public school system where it's like a.00:05:10JackA Korean teacher or a Chinese teacher lecturing in Chinese or in Korean, but they're teaching English, which is doesn't really make a lot of sense. You know when you're, when you think about it.00:05:22JohnnyYeah. So I I still, I I think we're we're we're in desperate need for some good English teachers like you in China so.00:05:30발표자But.00:05:30JohnnyUnfortunately, we don't. We don't have that many.00:05:33JohnnyOf native speakers who teach spoken English in China. Really. So that's. That's basically the situation here and.00:05:39JackOK. So take us back. So you're so Johnny's in primary school. And are you going to a private Academy or are you using the public school system?00:05:42JohnnyYeah.00:05:51JohnnyYeah, I'm. I'm pretty much using the the the public school system. Yeah. So just like, just like anybody else in in China. OK. So I wasn't in any language training school or anything. I didn't.00:06:02JohnnyUh, I I didn't like English all that much, to be honest. I was like, yeah, right, that was. That was just a.00:06:06JackI was just gonna ask you that question. I was like, I bet you hated it passionately being, you know.00:06:08JohnnyLot of fun, yeah.00:06:11JohnnyYeah, in, in a sense. Yeah, in a sense like it was just another subject for me, OK. And I and I, well, I think I I did OK in in middle school, but in.00:06:23JohnnyIn in high school like it fell, it falls off, I think pretty badly in in high school. So. So I didn't do so well in the the college entrance exam.00:06:34JohnnyFor my English.00:06:35JohnnyOK so so I didn't didn't wasn't a really good English speaker.00:06:42JackYeah, that's that's.00:06:43JohnnyProbably.00:06:43JackShocking to us, you know, because listening to you right now, this conversation I'm like, how is this possible? Like what?00:06:45JohnnyProbably not. Not even.00:06:49JackSomething, obviously something.00:06:51JackHappened along the way there. That was like a a real watershed like moment for you where you you did something dramatically different than you know.00:06:54JohnnyYeah, right.00:07:02JackFollowing the school curriculum.00:07:05JohnnyYeah, like, yeah, I I I wouldn't say I, I I wasn't even a good English learner, let alone a speaker. OK. So I think things got changed when I.00:07:16JohnnyUh, when I decided to go to Australia and for for a further study. So and so I think and I started learning English like proper learning.00:07:29JohnnyEnglish before that because you have to, you know, you have to pass the exams, you have to pass English exam before you can go there. So.00:07:40JohnnyI I think that's that's where I got started. But I notice, OK, so this this is actually kind of interesting so.00:07:47JackSo did did you make the decision to go to Australia before you started learning English, you know, or were you already in the process of learning English, you know?00:07:56JohnnyNo. So that was, you know, that was all after the.00:08:00JohnnyAfter I decided to go to Australia.00:08:02JackWow, that's real. Like trial by fire. You're like, oh, my gosh, I've made this commitment and now?00:08:08JohnnyYeah. Then you're sort of, you know, force yourself to, to be committed to this.00:08:13JackYeah.00:08:14JohnnySo you got to do.00:08:16JohnnyWhatever you can you.00:08:17JohnnyKnow to because this is the. So you, you. This is the choice you made so.00:08:21JohnnyYou've got to commit to that.00:08:23JackRight, right. Umm, what was it like when you first arrived in Australia? How was your? How was your English at that time?00:08:29JohnnyWell, uh, I think I think things got changed. Uh, a bit after I I uh, you know, I went to the language school before I go to Australia so.00:08:39JohnnyI think I can't discover that I have this interest in in spoken language because I decided to started to really see if if if your English Movies OK, I think that's.00:08:45JackMHM.00:08:53JohnnyWhat? What, what?00:08:54JohnnyWhat started me off in the first place?00:08:57JackWhat kind of movies were you into I like.00:08:59JackLike.00:08:59JohnnyOh, OK, that that, that's it. That was great because that was so many years ago. OK, so the the one I I can. Well, you know this sort of giving it away. Well, how how many years ago. So I I think that was like.00:09:05JackOK.00:09:19JohnnyUh movies? Well, actually, I when I started off I I watched some of the older movies, OK like that the the the movies from from someone from the 90s like Terminators because that's one of my favorite. Yes. So Terminator two. Yeah.00:09:28JackOhh yeah, sure. Terminating. Well, Sonny, that that I was in high school when that came out. So that gives away how old I am.00:09:40JohnnyYeah, and terminate that because that was the all time classics. So I started seeing all those classic films like I, I don't remember. This one's called the negotiator. I don't know if you have seen this one.00:09:51JackYeah. Sam Jackson. Yeah, that's a.00:09:53JackGreat one, yeah.00:09:54JohnnyYeah.00:09:55JohnnyYeah.00:09:56JohnnyRight, Samuel Jackson and and Kevin Spacey. I, if I remember right. Yeah. So that that was the the sort of the movies that I I watched that at the time. OK. And then I kind of started me off and I and I think I followed a a TV program in China and that that was called Learning English with movies.00:09:59JackYeah, exactly.00:10:16JackOhh, I like that. That's cool.00:10:18JohnnyOK. So yeah, that was that was many years ago. OK. So and I I stumbled across that that that show on TV and I think that kind of started my you know that was that was very that was really mind blowing to me.00:10:33JohnnyYeah, I can. I can actually learn something through movies when watching movies.00:10:37JackSomething fun language learning can actually be enjoyable. It doesn't have to just suck all the time, you know? Yeah.00:10:39JohnnyIt can be fun, right? It's like studying is fun.00:10:46JohnnyYeah, it's because to me English is all about exam before, so you know about exams before. So yeah.00:10:54JohnnyThat that kind of.00:10:57JohnnyUM introduced me to a whole new world.00:11:01JackYeah. Yeah, that's that's great. I'm. I'm so glad that you brought because I think these like.00:11:02JohnnyIf you like, yeah.00:11:07JackThis idea that like if it's fun, it's not learning, and if it's painful, it's learning and I I I really I I just, I get disgusted by that kind of philosophy where if it doesn't, if it isn't boring and it isn't painful and tedious, then you're not really learning anything.00:11:26JackAnd it's so funny because it's like when you really started learning is when you actually started enjoying the process and and discovering.00:11:36JackEnglish language movies and you know things like that where you can actually be entertained and also learn something along the way. That's a really great.00:11:46JohnnyExactly. Yeah. That's how I felt. That's exactly how I felt. So that's.00:11:51JohnnyNelson with mind blowing to me at a time so going.00:11:54JackYeah, I'm just picturing you. Sorry to interrupt you. So just to get back, so you, you you went to Australia?00:12:03JackAnd you, you you had a pretty, like decent command of the language when you got there, you felt pretty comfortable.00:12:03JohnnyYeah.00:12:08JackWith like like.00:12:09JohnnyI I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that I had a good command of the language. I still, you know, I would. I I was able to I I guess I was able to order something in McDonald's, yeah.00:12:22JackOK. OK. OK.00:12:24JohnnySo I was I didn't have to staff myself. That's I think I I I would say that's the level I've I've gotten. And at the time.00:12:30JackKind of a we.00:12:31JackWe would call that like in. Yeah. So like a surface level of understanding where you can kind of navigate, you can get around in taxi, go straight, turn right, turn left. This is my house. This is my stop. Give me the 2 cheeseburgers with large fries. You know that.00:12:42JohnnyYeah.00:12:46JohnnyYeah, probably even.00:12:46JackKind of stuff.00:12:48JackThat's where my Korean is right now, you know.00:12:50JackTo be honest, I've been stuck there for a decade.00:12:51JohnnyOK.00:12:52JackRight. So yeah.00:12:54JohnnySo I probably I I I couldn't even like name the the correct cheeseburger that I wanted. Yeah, I I can order a cheeseburger. Yeah, I I you know the the first thing I say is that you can even say.00:13:01JackYou could just point.00:13:06JohnnyThis one, that one is something like that.00:13:08JohnnyYeah, yeah. I didn't even know how to say how to how to get a straw, you know? So in, in, in our language, we we call it a sucker. So The funny thing, you're.00:13:16JackSo yeah, you don't want to ask for a sucker at McDonald's in Australia, you might you might get in trouble over there to see if.00:13:17JohnnyNot not get a.00:13:22JohnnyYeah. Can I get a sucker or something like?00:13:23JohnnyThat. So that's quite funny.00:13:25JackThat is funny. Yeah, that's that's that's hilarious.00:13:29JackSo how long in?00:13:30JackAustralia, before you really started to like, you know, feel like you were in your groove, you know, really like making progress.00:13:37JohnnyHmm.00:13:38JohnnyI I think that was I think the first major change or you know it's it's gone to a point where you realize that OK, something has changed. OK. So I have I have improved, OK that that moment came, I think about half year after I arrived in Australia 6 months later, OK.00:13:56JackYeah.00:13:58JackSix months, yeah.00:13:59JohnnyHmm.00:14:00JohnnySo I I think I you know the the the the sentences that that came out of my mouth was a little different. You know I can I think I can sort of.00:14:09JohnnyUse the the relative cost in my in my sentences. So that was a big that that was a that was a big change.00:14:12발표자MHM.00:14:17JackYeah, this is the place where that's the person who.00:14:20JohnnyThis is a place where, yeah, so you can actually add a little description after the after the NUM.00:14:25JackRight.00:14:26JohnnyAnd and that that was, uh, that, that that was like a game changer.00:14:31JohnnyOK, so you can add significant amount of information to your to the, to the things that you say.00:14:31JackYeah.00:14:38JackAbsolutely. Absolutely. And that because it's instead of short, choppy sentences all the time, you're able to, like you said, add description to a noun and to, you know, build on that and and make your sentences longer and longer. So it's really funny that you bring up like relative clause because it's like.00:14:54JohnnyYeah, it's still longer.00:14:58JackYou're going back to your grammar roots, you know, in China.00:15:02JackWhere you learn.00:15:02JohnnyYeah.00:15:02JackFrom relative clauses, but you're like now I can use a relative clause, which is. You know, that's really different to me. Yeah. And you know what it means exactly. Yeah.00:15:07JohnnyNow I really understand what it means.00:15:13JohnnyAnd I understand.00:15:14JohnnyWhy they did native speakers use it OK, because you need to. You need more. You need depth in in your language you need more information description.00:15:17JackYeah.00:15:24JackAbsolutely.00:15:24JohnnySorry, yeah.00:15:26JackI'm so yeah, I'm. I'm just, you know, I'm. I'm thinking about your your your story is really.00:15:32JackMaybe making a lot of like I'm making a lot of connections to other students that I've that I've met and that I've talked to and interviewed. They find that like when they, I I I equated to like learning the guitar or something. When you're learning the guitar or learning a language.00:15:53JackYou improve quickly in the beginning.00:15:55JackAnd then you hit a plateau.00:15:57JackAnd you get kind of stuck on this one level and you feel like you're never going to.00:16:02JackBump up another level and then suddenly one day out of the blue, like you said, you're just making sentences that are longer and more descriptive. And it kind of does that kind of light a fire with within you to be like, wow, this makes me wanna learn this even more because I'm seeing the improvements.00:16:23JackObjectively, you know.00:16:24JohnnyYou know. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. So I think I've, I've got more confidence after after I I know I what I can do.00:16:36JohnnyBut interestingly enough, like not long after that, you know, I think I kind of hit another ceiling.00:16:43JackOK.00:16:44JackThat's normal. That's normal. Normal, yeah.00:16:45JohnnyThat's not. Yeah, that's that's not there for. So I I I can.00:16:52JohnnyYou know, I I.00:16:54JohnnyI think I passed that phase where I can only, uh, say very simple sentences. OK, so uh, so I can have, uh, more meaningful conversation with, with some with a native speaker.00:17:07JohnnyOK, but I still uh, I'm so.00:17:12JohnnyUh, I'm still not confident. I'm not confident enough in in some of the the more deep conversations, right. And I think I I kind of stuck there. It's just like you said, you know, so yeah, that was a really good analogy like learning guitar. It's like kind of stuck there for for a long time again.00:17:32JackGood.00:17:33JohnnyOK, I didn't see any. I didn't see any improvements in my language. So I think that that's that, that that lasted.00:17:39JohnnyAbout I think maybe.00:17:43JohnnyA good one or two years. OK. So that was, uh, kind of suffered because.00:17:49JackBut I I wanna. I wanna just talk about this a little bit because I I think I I don't want to listeners to misunderstand that you're.00:17:58JackYou felt like you're not making progress and maybe when it comes to like producing utterances, but but things were happening inside of your brain during that entire period of time there were you were you were immersed in English language, you were internalizing rules and patterns and things like that. You just weren't able to.00:18:19JackKind of convert it into utterances that were, you know, you know, speech perhaps. But I think that you were improving. I I just think.00:18:30JackLike it's it's part of the process is like you feel like you're stuck, but you're actually not. Things are happening and and progress is being made. It just might not be as obvious as you know. Perhaps we would want it to be, you know, because we we want like in two weeks later we want to.00:18:50JackYou know, show people look what I can do, you know? But it's it takes.00:18:53JackA long time.00:18:55JackTo get to that next level. And so I think a lot of people give up during that time. And it's sad because they're actually they are improving, it just maybe isn't showing the way that they want it to.00:19:01JohnnyYeah.00:19:06JohnnyThat I think that that's a fair point because.00:19:08JohnnyProbably you know, I I I I would have given up at A at a point, but you know I was.00:19:16JohnnyI was not in China, you know, I was in another country, so there's no way. There's no way you can get around.00:19:18JackYou couldn't give up you. You were in. You were swimming with sharks. You know you. You were. You. Like sink or swim right here.00:19:27JohnnyYeah. So there was, there was so everything. Everything you do, every every time after you, you know, you wake up, you have to speak English, otherwise you you know, otherwise you wouldn't be able to do anything. So. So I I kind of got lucky there. So at at that point.00:19:39발표자Sure.00:19:44JohnnyYou you're in that environment, so there's no.00:19:46JohnnyWay you can give up.00:19:48JohnnySo I kind of got me through that period where you feel, you know, a little disappointed about yourself, OK, about not making any progress.00:19:58JackSo Johnny, we talked about that you're like long plateau. That was like maybe two or three years.00:20:03JackOr maybe one?00:20:04JackOr two years where you got kind of stuck. Yeah. And so how how long were you in Australia by the?00:20:04JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:20:06JohnnyOne or two years.00:20:10발표자OK.00:20:12JohnnyJust a couple of.00:20:12JohnnyYears like three to four years, yeah.00:20:14JackOK, OK. And and what did you like when when you made that second jump up after that one to two year plateau, were you able to like have deeper conversations with people? Did you feel like like when you're sitting in a circle at a coffee table in there, you know the native Australians are are kind of you know?00:20:34JackBantering back and forth and you before you were kind of lost in the conversation, did you feel like now you understood what was going on? You were able to understand kind of a more on a deeper level what they were talking about?00:20:47JohnnyActually, no, actually no. No, because you know, you know Aussies because they have this very strong Australian accent. So as long as they they have the, it's like almost like they.00:20:48JackOK, OK.00:20:55JackRight.00:21:00JohnnyYou're not really speaking English, right? So there's systems like totally different use different words, you know? So they are a lot different when the slings are strong and slang so.00:21:05JackThey use a lot of different words, yeah.00:21:11JohnnyYou will not be.00:21:12JohnnyYou get.00:21:14JohnnySo that was that was the problem there.00:21:16JohnnySure, sure.00:21:18JohnnyYeah, and no. You have problem with overseas students. So the overseas students usually hang out.00:21:25JohnnyWith the overseas students.00:21:26JackYes. So you we always tell them that we always, I always tell my students, don't hang out with your Korean friends like, don't do it.00:21:27발표자I didn't really.00:21:31JohnnyExactly.00:21:33JohnnyI I tell I tell myself that but you.00:21:35JohnnyKnow it's just.00:21:37JohnnySometimes it's, uh, it's uh. Well, you know, you know, uh, it's something you should do, but you just not be able to do it, right. So you.00:21:43JackRight. And it's comfortable and it's familiar and it's comforting and it's so it's so tempting. It's so tempting.00:21:46JohnnyIt's kind of, yeah, it's familiar, right? So you? Yeah.00:21:51JohnnySo when you.00:21:52JohnnyWhen when you, when you talk to the native speakers and you when you hear so many words that you don't understand, it's just so frustrating. Right? I I guess it's frustrating for for anybody. You know, it's funny thing is I I found like a French class.00:22:00JackSure.00:22:05JohnnyThey they they hang out with friends as well. That's what happened.00:22:09JackOhh yeah, this is not yeah, this is not like a Korean or Chinese. You know, I don't wanna say problem, but like situation, you know it's it's something that a lot of exchange students will do because when you're when you're feeling lost and completely rudderless, you know just you alone in the ocean.00:22:18발표자Yeah.00:22:29JackThe first thing you're gonna do is is go towards something that's comfortable and familiar.00:22:34JackAnd you're gonna find people who are from your, you know, your country, and you're gonna latch on to them and hold on for dear life, you know, because it's. It's.00:22:44JohnnyLike. Yeah, yeah, I I guess because I think you you probably share the same experience cause you're you're in career. Yeah, so you.00:22:44JackScary. You know to do that.00:22:51JackYep, Yep.00:22:53JohnnySo I don't know about that. When you put the life there.00:22:54JackMy my I hung out with a lot of Americans and Canadians and.00:22:58JackThe.00:22:59JackWent to a lot of places where there were a lot of other Canadians and and Americans and.00:23:04JohnnyExactly.00:23:05JackYeah.00:23:06JohnnyYeah.00:23:07JackI guess I tell my students do do as I say, not as I do you.00:23:08JohnnySo.00:23:11JackKnow so yeah.00:23:13JohnnyYeah. Well, that that's basically what happens everywhere. Yeah, so.00:23:16JohnnyI guess that's that's why you know, I I hit the second ceiling because I.00:23:20JohnnyDon't have enough conversations with the real native speakers. Now I go to classes. OK, yeah, we we use English in the classroom, and we'll probably do some food assignment scaling and uh, you know that that's it. OK, so so you don't actually. So.00:23:34JackYeah.00:23:38JohnnyYou, you, you have a lot of input.00:23:41JohnnyBut not not enough output. I understand this like in many years. Many years later. I don't understand the the understand the theory at the time.00:23:43JackYes.00:23:49JackRight, right. Not so many students don't understand the theory, and there are a.00:23:53JackLot of lot of.00:23:54JackTeachers have kind of older I'm going to use a big word here, antiquated for our listeners out there just means like old fashioned. Yeah, old fashioned kind of philosophy on education where.00:24:01JohnnyWhat does that mean? Old fashion OK.00:24:09JackYou know, the students are sitting in a desk pointed at the teacher, and the teacher is speaking English to them.00:24:14JackThat they're supposed to, you know? Shut your mouth, be quiet. Listen and and don't disturb my classroom, you know.00:24:21JohnnyYou know what that that that's the the. That's the kind of educational system we've been using for more than 100 years and still going.00:24:29JackI know it's still going. You could put a PPT. You know you can put a a projector in a classroom and but it's still. I still find myself standing in front of a room full of people with their chairs pointing at me. And I I wondered to myself, why are we doing this? You know, 100 years.00:24:44JackTwitter it's it's it's terrible. So.00:24:46발표자Yeah.00:24:48JohnnyOh yeah, I almost fell. You're. You're a universal teacher.00:24:52JackRight. I teach university here in Korea. But yeah, it's still, you know, the this whole setup is is very familiar. Yeah, it it's it's the same almost everywhere. So how do we get to Johnny today, you know, with, with your wonderful eloquence and and speaking ability?00:24:57JohnnyIt's 9.00:25:11JohnnyYeah, I can only say I'm still learning, still learning to go still long way to go.00:25:14발표자Well.00:25:16JackYeah, sure. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a never ending journey. You're never going to get there. There is no final destination.00:25:22JackAnd you know there, there's always, there's always even for me as a native speaker, there's still more words for me to learn and more things for me to read and understand and and to. But but that's kind of the beauty of of teaching I find is like.00:25:32JohnnyExcellent.00:25:40JackYou you realize that?00:25:43JackThe more you learn about something, you think that it's going to get closer to you. But as you look on the horizon, it just gets farther and farther away. It's like the deeper you that you go into English, the the horizon is moving away from you, the you know, it's getting farther away. And and you realize, oh, this is a never ending process.00:25:59JohnnyYeah.00:26:01JohnnyYeah.00:26:04JackUntil you know the day I die, I'll still be learning English, you know, and.00:26:08JohnnyYeah, we call that the A lifelong learner. OK, so you're learning for a lifetime.00:26:11JackYep.00:26:13JackAbsolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's that's a better way to look at yourself as or a better way to.00:26:18JackLook at it then to say ohh this is my destination and when I get there I'm going to stop.00:26:24JackIt's like, no, you it it's be a lifelong learner. It's a much better way to think of yourself.00:26:26JohnnyYeah, no.00:26:31JackSo how how did you?00:26:32JackGet how did you get to where you are now?00:26:34JackLike what? What was your? What's your secret?00:26:36JohnnyI think the uh the 2nd, so now I'm coming to the the the second big game changer in my journey in my journey in in Australia. OK so.00:26:42JackOK. OK, right.00:26:43JackRight.00:26:44발표자OK.00:26:50JohnnyI a well I I got a a part time job at the time. OK? So because I I think, OK, so something has to change.00:27:00JackYeah.00:27:00JohnnyYou have to work out. You have to work out your comfort zone. You know, sometimes you just have to push yourself a little to work out the comfort zone so that I found myself a part time job there.00:27:10JohnnyYou know, uh, which is a salesperson at uh at a mobile phone store.00:27:14JackOh wow. OK.00:27:15JohnnySo yeah, so and.00:27:16JackNow you now you need some technical English because.00:27:19JohnnyYou have to learn. Yeah, you.00:27:21JackYou're not going to get by with hamburger and.00:27:21JohnnyHave to learn a lot of 2nd.00:27:23JackYou know. Yeah, that's not gonna cut it.00:27:27JohnnyMy name is. You're not getting away with those simple words. So because not only do you have to talk to the customer.00:27:34JohnnyOK.00:27:36JohnnyBut you also have to sell your products, OK? Otherwise you'll get fired.00:27:40JackRight, right.00:27:41JohnnyWell.00:27:42JohnnySo you not only have to to, uh, speak to them, you have to sort of get them hooked, you know, get them, listen to you. So so they'll they'll buy things right. So so establish this kind of connection.00:27:56JohnnyYeah, right. So again, it it really allows me to get into a deeper conversation with them and and you know, because it's a paid job, right? So it's a paid job. So. So you're more serious about this, not like you're fooling around with your mates, right? Yeah.00:28:12JackRight. It's not like the classroom, you know, project where you're.00:28:15JackJoking around and you know, you know.00:28:17JohnnyYou know.00:28:18JohnnySo sort of force myself to think about.00:28:19발표자Absolutely.00:28:24JohnnyThe some of the grammar, some of the the the terms that I use and I think I learned a ton from my my colleagues, OK, so.00:28:32JohnnyI think 1.00:28:32JohnnyOf my colleague is the is the best son. He's like 16 years old or something at the time, you know? So and.00:28:42JohnnyUM.00:28:46JohnnySo actually he he was using a lot of the teenager language, you know, still a lot of slang, the teenager slang saying and.00:28:50JackA lot of slang and yeah, yeah.00:28:54JohnnyI I still, but still you.00:28:56JohnnyYou learn, you learn a.00:28:57JohnnyLot.00:28:57JohnnyYou know from that experience.00:28:59JackYeah. Actually I think that might be the perfect kind of like practice partner is someone who's, you know they're they're not necessarily professional or established yet, you know, so they're not.00:29:06JohnnyYeah.00:29:11JackGetting and you know, he's they're also probably way more relaxed and chill than like, you know, the an older person might be someone in their 40s and so.00:29:22JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:29:25JackIt's much more comfortable.00:29:26JohnnyYeah.00:29:27JohnnyMuch more comfortable exactly.00:29:29JohnnyAnd and and I'm you know.00:29:31JohnnyI'm really thankful that he's not judging because I'm not so fluent in English. You know, because sometimes the teenagers, they're, they're the they, they can be, they can be the.00:29:41JohnnyUh, some little demons, but they can be can also be the nicest person in the world, so you know, I just happened. I'm just so glad that I that I met the the, the, the the nicest person.00:29:46JackRight.00:29:51JohnnyIn the world.00:29:52JohnnyThey will be not judging and but it could be daunting sometimes, you know, to still face the face the customers, because they they can ask your questions, right. And they're they well. And I mean, I wouldn't. I don't want to say.00:30:02JackABC.00:30:02JackAbsolutely.00:30:06JohnnyBut sometimes, as customers, they don't, they do not forgive you because because your native language is not English, right? Because.00:30:14JackThey're just going to get frustrated. They're going to complain.00:30:16JohnnyYeah, if you can't. Yeah, they they. If you can't explain something thoroughly, they're just gonna get complaint. It's very natural.00:30:23JackWell, it's a we we call them. That's a a Karen behavior social and I talked about. Yeah. One of our podcast well, I mean, but you you're gonna eventually you're going to get a Karen. You know what I mean? Like you're gonna get someone who's gonna.00:30:30JohnnyThe shopping game.00:30:39JackThe.00:30:39JohnnyOK.00:30:40JackVery impatient and frustrated because maybe they're not going to give you that extra like I don't know space to like kind of catch up in the conversation. They want to be understood immediately, and if you're not meeting their demands, they're going to start complaining. And so that that could be scary.00:30:57JohnnyYeah. Yeah. And it was. It was. Yeah. And I'm going to just. I'm just going to.00:31:04JohnnyThis, on behalf of all our audience here I are. You, a male, Karen Jack.00:31:10발표자I'm like, yeah.00:31:11JackTo be honest, actually I'm I'm very far from a male. Karen, you know I'm not. I'm not. I don't, I don't.00:31:20JackI I don't practice Karen like behavior in my in my regular day I'm pretty. I'm pretty patient and pretty, pretty laid back when it comes to those things. So yeah, yeah.00:31:26JohnnyAnd I'm just joking, just playing.00:31:32JackYeah. So that was that sounds like that, that job, your part time job was again.00:31:38JackYour philosophy is kind of like, I mean, I'm starting to see a pattern here in like your in your life.00:31:44JackYou first you decide to go to Australia, then you're like ohh. Now I have to learn English, you know. And then you're learning English in Australia and you're like, I'm gonna get a job. Ohh my gosh. Now I have to start speaking on a deeper level to these customers. It's like you put yourself in these situations that are very high stress and then you.00:32:05JackRise to the OK.00:32:06JackVision, which I think is you know, I mean that's like a a trade for of like very successful people will do that they'll they'll jump in first and then they'll be like now I have to figure this out whereas cautious people will you know I'm going to study for 10 years and then maybe I'll apply for that job it's it's much better to just do it your way.00:32:27JackRight. Just jump in and go for it or swim.00:32:29JohnnyWell, I I I guess I I I.00:32:31JohnnyGuess I I I got lucky. I got lucky that I have this opportunity.00:32:36JohnnyMy as my family has been able to support me financially and which allows me to go to another country.00:32:40JackYeah.00:32:44JohnnyTo study so that that's what you know when you're in this country, when you're in this environment. So you could sort of.00:32:51JohnnyTake away your your safe, safe net so you don't have the safe net to fall back on. So you, you.00:32:55JackRight.00:32:59JohnnyYou you have to, you have to.00:33:02JackAnd but you know it, it doesn't have to be extreme like what you did. I mean, what you did is pretty extreme, but.00:33:08JackI'm going to.00:33:09JackI'm going to say to our our listeners out.00:33:11JackThere, you know.00:33:12JohnnySo.00:33:14JackIt's also scary to introduce yourself to a native speaker.00:33:18JackYou know, if you if you see one in your neighborhood, you know, like, that's scary. But you know what? Go introduce yourself. Just take that leap of of faith. And so that's like kind of doing it on like a micro level of what you did. And you don't have to move to Australia. You don't have to get a job.00:33:26JohnnyYeah.00:33:35JackYou know selling mobile phones, but you could just introduce yourself to someone who speaks English, try to befriend that person and and that could be another Ave. to success that doesn't require money. It might require a little bit of time and energy and you, you know.00:33:53JohnnyExactly, yeah.00:33:54JackBut I think.00:33:55JackI think these little things are, there are little ways to do to be, to take risks that will actually benefit you.00:34:02JohnnyHmm. Yes, totally agreed. Yeah. So. So I I think it has to. Yeah. Yeah, I heard this. You have to start somewhere, right. Everything has to start somewhere. So.00:34:14JohnnyI think it's the the, it's. It's really crucial that.00:34:18JohnnyI think it's better.00:34:19JohnnyIf you're determined to to learn this language.00:34:23JohnnyYou better start somewhere or say whether that's uh, that's a really simple sentence. And maybe just saying hello, just like you're saying hello to.00:34:30JohnnyThe to the foreigner in your.00:34:31JohnnyIn your neighborhood? Yeah, something.00:34:34JohnnyYou know, we're not gonna eat.00:34:35JohnnyYou right, so why not? Why not?00:34:37JackThey're.00:34:38JackGonna.00:34:38JackEat you. That's. I like that. That's.00:34:39JohnnyNo. Why not? Yeah.00:34:40JackTrue.00:34:42JackYeah.00:34:43JackUM, that's fascinating. And So what do you? Are you a teacher now? Is that if if.00:34:47JackI'm not mistaken.00:34:47JohnnyI am. Yeah. I I I, I.00:34:49JohnnyAm a teacher. I have a.00:34:51JohnnyI am the Niles teacher.00:34:52JohnnySo I think from that you know.00:34:54JohnnyYeah.00:34:55JohnnyUh, from a mobile phone job many years ago, and I found my interest in learning the language and speaking the language so.00:35:05JohnnyI you know.00:35:06JohnnyWell, I you know, I.00:35:07JohnnyWound up in different.00:35:07JohnnyJobs later, you.00:35:08JohnnyKnow so that that's a long story, but anyway, so I eventually I was able to.00:35:09JackYeah.00:35:15JohnnyFind a true interest which is language and language teaching, I guess.00:35:20JackYeah.00:35:20JohnnyHmm so so I am a teacher now.00:35:21JackThat's amazing.00:35:23JackYeah, I I love your story. I think it's fantastic and I think it's very inspiring. A lot of our listeners out there are going to appreciate it. And and I think some of them have had similar experiences and maybe you know, like you said, a lot of it is luck too, right? The fact that you met the.00:35:24JohnnySo this.00:35:39JackRight, people at the right time.00:35:41JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:35:42JackBut you know, if you.00:35:44JackPut yourself out there. Opportunities are they're floating around, you know, and if you don't try you, you you 100% chance of failure. So you know you you you got to take you got to take a risk.00:35:55JohnnyExactly, yeah.00:35:58JackUM, so Johnny, you're you're interested in podcasting, if I'm not mistaken, this is something that you're aspiring to do. Yeah. And you said you had some questions for me, so yeah.00:36:04JohnnyYeah.00:36:09JohnnyNot only not. Yes, and thank you, Jack, for.00:36:15JohnnyYou know, actually, I want to thank you to inviting me and thank you for inviting me today here. So I could be on the show and ask you about all these questions.00:36:24JackAbsolutely.00:36:25JohnnyAnd so, yeah, you're you're saying that exactly. I'm. I'm I'm interested in starting a podcast. You know, I've been thinking about that for a long time and actually not not only broadcasting because.00:36:39JohnnyI'm I'm I'm actually.00:36:40JohnnyQuite new to podcasting because it's not the I guess it's not as popular as it is in.00:36:46JohnnyAnd you know basically.00:36:48JohnnyOutside China. OK, so in China it's, it's not a thing.00:36:50JackYeah, yeah. And and these days it's always evolving because what I've noticed is that podcasting without youtubing or being a YouTuber or in China, Billy, Billy, you know, without doing something like that, you know, people want to be able to see you and listen to you. That's what I've I've, I've I've come to realize, is that they really want to see.00:37:03JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:37:12JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:37:12JackAnd listen.00:37:14JackAnd so I I would recommend if you do, you know if I were to do it all over again, I would have made more of an effort to be a podcaster slash like YouTuber and really put the effort into like the video as well, which we haven't, you know, for the last couple of years, we've been mostly just an audio podcast.00:37:14JohnnyExactly.00:37:25JohnnyOK.00:37:34JackI don't know how you did. How did you find us, by the way?00:37:38JohnnyOh, oh, yeah. That's that's an interesting word as well. I think the first summer class.00:37:46JohnnyYour channel on the on the channel, unbelievably.00:37:50JackOh, OK.00:37:51JohnnyYeah. So I was. Yeah, I yeah. So because I was, I was trying to find some of the some of the materials for my students because I don't think they have enough input. So I think they should listen to more of the native speaker conversations and.00:37:52발표자All right.00:38:05발표자Right.00:38:10JohnnyWell, trust me, I I've tried a few a bunch of different. I've tried different things, try different channels. OK so. But you know, because I I teach out.00:38:15발표자Sure.00:38:17JackYeah, yeah.00:38:20JohnnyRight, so I'm not speaking. It's sort of a, it's very conversational English, you know.00:38:27JackRight.00:38:28JohnnyRight, so a lot.00:38:29JohnnyOf students are familiar with the the sort of uh monologue type of uh speech type of English.00:38:36JackMore toic or something like that, where it's like a a kind of presentational or something like a.00:38:42JackLike a.00:38:42JohnnyPresentation or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. Right. So, but not not, you know, the conversational English. So that that's that's.00:38:48JackRight.00:38:50JohnnyI came across your channel and I and I think wow this so this is just fantastic.00:38:56JackThank you so much. We are the least like academic of the podcast that I've come across.00:38:57JohnnyThis is this is.00:39:02JackYou know we.00:39:02JohnnyAnd that that.00:39:04JohnnyHappened to be exactly what I needed.00:39:06JackThat's fantastic. I I love hearing that. It makes us, you know it. It kind of validates, you know, things for, for social and me because we do we have kind of found our lane in which is it's not the most beautiful polished you know kind of podcast.00:39:25JackBut we do just love to have, like, real, genuine conversations with each other. And I feel like that's something that's missing. It's everything's all planned out. It's so clean and so crisp and, you know, conversation is messy and ugly sometimes it's not, you know, it's it's not this like.00:39:43JohnnyYeah, but that's, you know.00:39:44JackBeautiful, yeah.00:39:47JohnnyWell, it doesn't have language, doesn't have to be beautiful. That's that's my take.00:39:49JackRight. Yeah, exactly. We can't all be Shakespeare. It's not all poetry, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So if you, you know, if I. If I were in your your shoes. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions. First are are you thinking of doing like an aisle?00:39:55JohnnyNo, no, no, no.00:40:06JackThe style of podcast or something are you are you going to focus on?00:40:08JohnnySo yeah, that that you.00:40:09JackSomething specific like that.00:40:11JohnnyKnow Jack, that that's where I got stuck. You know, that's kind of where I got stuck because.00:40:17JohnnyThere are some many.00:40:19JohnnyThere are many competitors out there who are doing this kind of content already. OK, so.00:40:25발표자Right.00:40:27JohnnySo if I were to do it now, OK, would I be able to ever compete with them because they started earlier?00:40:34JohnnyOK, so and and and and in doing that I kind of limit myself to uh, you know, to this group of audience that that they are only interested in in outs knowing you know this kind of small group of people you should know that.00:40:35발표자Yeah.00:40:47JackYeah.00:40:49JohnnyYeah. So that's that's that's what I've done.00:40:53JohnnyThat's that's what I'm worrying about. OK, so I I I, you know, in a way, I don't want to.00:40:55발표자Mm-hmm.00:40:58JohnnyLimit myself to only.00:41:00JohnnyThis screwed up audience and I want to. I want a bigger audience but.00:41:04JackYeah, exactly. I, no, no, you got to be greedy because it's there's only, you know, there's only so much bandwidth out there that people have, you know, for for this kind of.00:41:06JohnnyIs that not too greedy?00:41:15JackContent and uh, you know, I mean social and I were still plugging away two years later and we've made some progress. But you know, there are times where our downloads are not as as good as some months. And you know we wish we were more successful like some of the bigger, you know, ESL podcast. But you know we stayed.00:41:36JackYou know, we try to be genuine. We try to be authentic, we try to be true to ourselves and what we enjoy doing.00:41:43JackAnd I guess that's what I think that's my the best advice I could give you is find out like what your what do you authentically enjoy doing, you know like what are are you you know, if if teaching a lesson is your thing then then you know you could take some of your lessons from your alts class and you could actually.00:41:55JohnnyYeah.00:42:03JackYou know, convert those into like podcast form, you know, and do it that way, if you're you're a conversationalist because we're have we had, it's already been 45 minutes. We've been talking. So we're we're having this great conversation.00:42:20JackSo you could go down that lane and or you could do all of those things, you know, and and just and and see what clicks with the, with the audience as well. Because once you get something that people like, you have to follow that, you know, follow that lead that trail because they're they're telling you what they want.00:42:33JohnnyYeah, yeah.00:42:39JackAnd you have to follow it. You know, sniff it out.00:42:42JohnnyYeah, yeah, I know. It's not. It's.00:42:44JohnnyIt's not about, yeah.00:42:45JohnnyDoing the right thing the right time.00:42:47JohnnyAnd uh, so I I guess, uh, videos, uh, the the the short videos are a thing you know since since the.00:42:55JohnnySince TikTok I guess.00:42:57JackYes.00:42:57JohnnySo you have seven other point, yeah, I was.00:42:59JohnnyThinking about maybe I should do a TikTok or should I?00:43:01JohnnyDo TikTok.00:43:02JohnnyOr YouTube, or because YouTube is isn't really a you know, available in in China. So so should I be a YouTuber or so?00:43:07JackRight, right.00:43:12JohnnyA lot of things you have to take into consideration at the moment so.00:43:15JackYeah. Yeah. Well, I I would tell you, you know, honestly do it for a while because you'd love to do it.00:43:23JackAnd don't worry about the downloads and the success, because if you, you know, you find that that you really enjoy doing it. Like for me this is like very much.00:43:35JackA kind of a hobby. I I always call it a job. It's a jobby. It's like a.00:43:38JohnnyYeah. OK. Is that is that a word?00:43:42JackI just made that up, but it's it's between, yeah.00:43:44JohnnyOK.00:43:47JackYou know it. It's it's, it's something that I would love to do and generate income and survive on, but I'm not there yet. But I keep doing it. Not for for money or for fame or anything like that. I just really enjoy it, you know, it's just something that is really, really good.00:44:06JackAnd I think it's and you're you're doing something good for.00:44:10JackYou're not just wasting people's time, you're actually giving them something that they they need, which is, you know, more, you know, content for language learning. Cause I think there's just, there's never. There can never be enough of that. To be honest, in my opinion, because people are always looking for more ways to learn English and they're connecting with certain personalities.00:44:30JackAnd you know it, you may just resonate with with certain people and and but I would, you know, follow your instincts, be yourself. Don't try to be you know somebody else.00:44:36JohnnyYeah.00:44:41JackI am.00:44:42JackYou know, I tried that in the beginning of podcasting where I tried to have a better broadcasting voice, but the truth is, I stammer. And I I I, you know, repeat myself and I, you know, you know, I do all that kind of stuff. And and that's just who I am, you know. And if if people don't like it, then you know, they they'll tune.00:44:55JohnnyJust feed yourself.00:45:03JackNo, but I I think people will forgive you if they think you're being authentic and genuine as as a, as a presenter, as a podcaster.00:45:12JohnnyYeah, I think.00:45:13JohnnyBeing genuine that that's that's really crucial.00:45:15JohnnyYeah, well, you know, I share the link of your your podcast to many of my students, and I think they they think it's absolutely fantastic. So a lot of my students been listening to. Well, thank you, Jack. Well, thank you for creating such a great.00:45:26JackOh man, thank you so much.00:45:31JackYeah.00:45:33JohnnyAll these great content. OK. Thank you for you. And socials and Kevins and effort. You know, we're actually listening to some of these earlier, earlier episodes where you feature.00:45:46JackYeah.00:45:47JohnnyKevin and I mean.00:45:49JohnnyMaybe someone else. I don't remember the name.00:45:52JackYeah, you're you're going into the deep cuts. Yeah, we had some really good conversations at the beginning, you know, Kevin and I started it together, and then he got too busy and social was a guest on our our podcast. And then she became a my full time podcasting partner. So. Yeah, just kind of funny how that happens.00:45:53JohnnyAre you sure? Yeah.00:46:08JohnnyOh, OK.00:46:12JackUM, but uh, you know. Thank you, Johnny. It means a lot to us. And thank you so much for spreading the word and for our listeners out there. This was my my conversation with Johnny. John. If Johnny gets a podcast started, I will be the first to promote it to all our listeners out there. Of course. Of course.00:46:29JohnnyThank you. Thank you, Jack, my name is.00:46:33JackAnd if you guys want to listen to this episode, go to our website A-Z englishpodcast.com if you want to leave us a message, you can send us an e-mail at at Oz English podcast at Gmail.00:46:43JackCom you can talk to us in our WhatsApp group or in our WeChat group for our our Chinese listeners out there. And with that said, Johnny, thanks again man and listeners. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.00:46:53JohnnyThank you.00:46:55JohnnyThank you.00:46:57JohnnyBye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/culture-corner-my-interview-with-johnny-from-china/Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok: @atozenglish1Instagram: @atozenglish22Twitter: @atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Stugotz, Billy and Mikey go guest free! Billy introduces two new games: Mhm or Nuh-uh and Off the Grid...Iron. Stugotz has his top 5 teams if the season started today and Mikey hosts a game of Over/Under. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Stugotz, Billy and Mikey go guest free! Billy introduces two new games: Mhm or Nuh-uh and Off the Grid...Iron. Stugotz has his top 5 teams if the season started today and Mikey hosts a game of Over/Under. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Grant laughs at Virginia's performance, gets the latest Brewers talking points from the OBABAM Institute and plays Mhm or MmM with Paul Imig. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of The A to Z English Podcast, Xochitl and Jack explain the difference between the active voice and the passive voice.Transcript:00:00:01JackWelcome to the A-Z English podcast. My name is Jack and I'm here with my co-host social. And today we are stepping into the grammar zone and we're going to talk about the active voice versus the passive voice. And so social when we use the active voice, that's.00:00:20JackTends to be our typical like subject, verb, object, sentences, right?00:00:25XochitlYes.00:00:26JackYeah, like the cat chased the mouse. The cat is the subject. Chased is the verb and then the object of the of the cat's interest. What the cat is chasing is the mouse.00:00:43JackWhat if we?00:00:44JackPut that into the passive voice. Uhm, where we kind of basically the subject and the object are inverted. Uh, kind of reversed.00:00:56JackSo for example, the mouse was chased by the cat. Can you think of like a reason why we might use that kind of construction, a passive voice?00:01:10XochitlThe mouse was chased by the cat.00:01:13JackYeah.00:01:14JackI was thinking.00:01:15JackLike we want to emphasize the the mouse instead of the cat, right?00:01:19JackWe're kind of emphasizing that, yeah, because it's like technically it's the object of the of the sentence in the active, you know, the cat chased the mouse. But if we want to emphasize the mouse, we can flip it around and use the passive voice. The mouse was chased by the cat.00:01:19XochitlYeah, I was going to say.00:01:21XochitlToo again.00:01:39JackAnd I wanted to throw one more thing at you here. Like there's another reason sometimes we use the passive voice and and it's when the subject is unknown.00:01:51JackSo.00:01:52XochitlOhh.00:01:53JackCan you think I I was thinking of an example like imagine you're, uh, you wake up in the morning, you go. I know you don't drive, but this is a hypothetical situation. You go out, you you grab your keys, you go out to your your front front yard and your car's gone.00:02:13발표자MHM.00:02:13JackSo we could use, you know, the active voice and we could say someone stole Social's car, but we often don't use the pronoun someone instead of instead you would come back in the house and say, oh, my gosh, my car was stolen.00:02:33XochitlYep, Yep.00:02:33발표자That's.00:02:34JackYeah.00:02:36발표자Yeah.00:02:37JackAnd in the full sentence would be my car was stolen by somebody. But in this case we.00:02:43JackJust the the.00:02:44JackSubject is unknown. We don't know who it is.00:02:46XochitlI think sometimes we do. We might come in and be like someone.00:02:49XochitlStole my car though.00:02:50JackYes, yes, we will say that. Yep.00:02:54XochitlYeah. So I think that's where that would come.00:02:55XochitlInto play.00:02:56JackYes, yes, I and and again this this is the the whole point of like active and passive voice is that you get to choose the style that you and tone that you want to use I think.00:03:08JackThis is. That's why I'm not like a a huge fan of teaching this kind of grammar to my students who are beginners because they it just confuses them. But for students that are like a little bit higher level and want to make their writing a little bit more interesting, I think the passive voice.00:03:17발표자So.00:03:29JackCan be a useful a useful tool, but but it's definitely not necessary. Definitely not necessary. You could just say someone stole my car, yeah.00:03:40XochitlYes.00:03:41JackYeah.00:03:43JackAnd umm, I'm also thinking like in the newspaper. Uh, this is very common in like headlines.00:03:51JackAm I wrong about that? I'm thinking like.00:03:55XochitlLike.00:03:58XochitlLike, yeah, like yes, because you would say an office building was burned down by 27 year old male instead of a 27 year old male burned in an office building or something.00:04:06JackYes, exactly.00:04:10JackRight, right. Or you just might say like an office building, but an office building was burned down yesterday.00:04:17JackYou know, and we they don't know who the perpetrator is. The person that did it. And so you, you again unknown subject. We can just use the passive voice. An office building was burned down and elderly woman was murdered last night in the park. You know something like that.00:04:17XochitlYes.00:04:38JackSorry for these dark examples everybody but.00:04:43JackIt it tends to be like in crime, you know, crime pages like that, those kinds of headlines, I think.00:04:48XochitlRight, yes.00:04:50JackYeah.00:04:51JackOK. Well, I think we've we've pretty much dug ourselves.00:04:56JackWell, we we put ourselves in a grammar hole, but I think we dug ourselves out mostly in this. Yeah.00:05:01XochitlMostly yes. Alright, listeners, if you have any further questions, any grammar questions that you want to shoot our way, make sure to leave a comment down below at AZ englishpodcast.com. Shoot us an e-mail at AZ englishpodcast@gmail.com and join our WeChat WhatsApp groups to join the conversation. See you guys next time.00:05:21XochitlBye.00:05:22발표자Bye bye.Podcast Website:https://atozenglishpodcast.com/grammar-zone-active-voice-vs-passive-voice/Social Media:WeChat: atozenglishpodcastFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/671098974684413/Tik Tok:@atozenglish1Instagram:@atozenglish22Twitter:@atozenglish22A to Z Facebook Page:https://www.facebook.com/theatozenglishpodcastCheck out our You Tube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCds7JR-5dbarBfas4Ve4h8ADonate to the show: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/9472af5c-8580-45e1-b0dd-ff211db08a90/donationsRobin and Jack started a new You Tube channel called English Word Master. You can check it out here:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2aXaXaMY4P2VhVaEre5w7ABecome a member of Podchaser and leave a positive review!https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-a-to-z-english-podcast-4779670Join our Whatsapp group: https://forms.gle/zKCS8y1t9jwv2KTn7Intro/Outro Music: Daybird by Broke for Freehttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/Directionless_EP/Broke_For_Free_-_Directionless_EP_-_03_Day_Bird/https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcodeSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-a-to-z-english-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Happy Melanin March! We are overjoyed to be joined by "kickboxer turned comedian" Sakinah Daaz as she chats with J.Mix about how she practices de-centering gender roles in her life and the lives of others. Follow Sakinah on all the socials: @sakinahdaazcomedy Join Sakinah at the next RetroSHADE- an astrology roast show @retroshadecomedy Catch J.Mix as Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar IN BURLESQUE on Good Friday >>> Who is currently curating TSAM's social media feed! This could not be possible without The Jazz & Heritage Foundation's Community Partnership grant!SHOUT OUT TO OUR 15 PATRONS! THANK YOU WITH STICKING WITH US THROUGH THIS TRANSITIONAL TIME! If you are a TSAM Patron, your ticket to the upcoming MHM show on April 1st is completely FREE. Just inform Lefty at the door!

HAPPY BLACK HISTORY MONTH! On this special episode of TSAM, J.Mix shares some of her favorite guest interviews from her latest show, Multi-Hyphenate Mondays, which she co-hosts with the amazing, charming, & talented, Pat Smith at the AllWays Lounge! To get your ticket to the next show, visit mhmnola.eventbrite.com and follow @3plethreatmedia on IG for highlights and updates. And follow our featured guests!Laveau Contraire  Yamali SanDJ Big CLyrical Paradigm Shout out to DotDaaz Digital >>>> Who produces a fantastic monthly show called RetroShade - An astrology roast show. Pisces better get ready for the incoming jokes.AND SHOUT OUT TO OUR 15 PATRONS! THANK YOU WITH STICKING WITH US THROUGH THIS TRANSITIONAL TIME! If you are a TSAM Patron, your ticket to the upcoming MHM show on March 4th is completely FREE. Just tell Lefty at the door!

After taking somewhat of a break and deciding on how to move forward with MHM. I'm back and wanted to start back up with being vulnerable with you guys on why I even wanted a break in the first place. Much love y'all

Welcome to the daily304 – your window into Wonderful, Almost Heaven, West Virginia.   Today is Sunday, Feb. 18   #1 – From WVDOE –  The West Virginia Department of Education presents Episode 2 of “Common Factor,” focusing on how operations leading up to and on Bridge Day utilize Mathematical Habit of Mind No. 6: Attend to Precision.  PK-12 Academic Support Coordinator Tim Flatley discusses MHM 6 with Bridge Day Commission Chairwoman Becky Sullivan and BASE Jump Coordinator Marcus Ellison about how they ensure the safety of the BASE jumpers and festival attendees. Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFB2QzghLF8    #2 – From THE INTELLIGENCER – West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice helped hand out millions of dollars in environmental and arts grants during a ceremony recently at the Grave Creek Mound Archaeological Complex in Moundsville. Market Street Now, a real estate firm in Wheeling, was presented a $50,000 state development grant. Another local grant was a $2,012,000 abandoned mine land grant for the Wheeling Gateway Center through the Abandoned Mine Lands Economic Revitalization Program.  The Gateway Center will be located on a plot of land currently occupied by the former Wheeling Inn. A new visitors center, plus possible retail space and more, will be housed in a brand new structure to be built on the land. The local abandoned mine land grant was among 10 handed out across the state, totalling $30,000 in federal dollars. The local arts grants were among 25 across the Northern Panhandle, totalling $738,969. Read more: https://www.theintelligencer.net/news/top-headlines/2024/02/local-groups-get-millions-in-grants-for-arts-environment/   #3 – From WV PRESS – U.S. Department of Agriculture Rural Development is investing $9.3 million to improve water and wastewater infrastructure for five West Virginia communities. “Having adequate, safe, and reliable basic infrastructure is the foundation for community and economic development,” said Ryan Thorn, USDA West Virginia State Director of Rural Development “Strengthening public water and sewer services is at the heart of what we do at Rural Development. The investments announced today will have a lasting economic impact that allows for new opportunities and future generations to make a good life in rural communities across the Mountain State.”  In total, Rural Development is investing $9,253,000 in five projects across West Virginia. Read more: https://wvpress.org/wvpa-sharing/rural-development-invests-9-3-million-to-improve-access-to-clean-water-and-reliable-sewer-systems-in-west-virginia/   Find these stories and more at wv.gov/daily304. The daily304 curated news and information is brought to you by the West Virginia Department of Commerce: Sharing the wealth, beauty and opportunity in West Virginia with the world. Follow the daily304 on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @daily304. Or find us online at wv.gov and just click the daily304 logo.  That's all for now. Take care. Be safe. Get outside and enjoy all the opportunity West Virginia has to offer.  

Happy New Year everyone! My first MHM episode of 2024 is about the mental space it takes for Black People have when hearing doubts and dismissal of being told “I don't see Race”. Episode available on all streaming platforms. Subscribe to “Iggy's Loudmouth Podcast” on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and any other platform you stream.

Today's guest is Jay Helms.   Jay Helms is a financial freedom achiever, a real estate investor living a nomadic slow-travel lifestyle with his family of 5, founder of the W2 Capitalist and Amazon #1 Best Selling Author.   Show summary:  In this podcast episode, Jay Helms emphasizes the importance of having "growth friends" who are also focused on real estate investing, and making daily calls to expand this network. He also discusses the evolution of his W-2 Capitalist community, which now includes a hard money lending solution. Jay highlights the importance of strong partnerships in real estate investing and shares his criteria for selecting partners.   -------------------------------------------------------------- The Growth Trends Exercise (00:03:33)   Changing Who You're Talking To (00:07:12)   The Impact of the Exercise (00:09:07)   The W-2 Capitalist Community (00:10:03)   The Importance of Consistent Networking (00:11:52)   Partner Criteria and Building Partnerships (00:16:43)   The W-2 Capitalist Community Growth (00:20:28)   Listening to Community Members' Needs (00:21:26)   Importance of Solid Partnerships (00:27:30) -------------------------------------------------------------- Connect with Jay:  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jay.helms1 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayhelms/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/jay_helms YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/W2Capitalist Phone: 205-249-0248 Connect with Sam: I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/ Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com   SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f -------------------------------------------------------------- Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below: Jay Helms (00:00:00) - So the easy trick to doubling or just growing your portfolio is changing who you're talking to. Now, I'm not saying that you should go out and tell your mom, hey. Or your, you know, your your brother or sister saying, hey, I'm not talking to you anymore, right? I'm not saying do that. I'm just saying take. Make two phone calls a day, right? Most people, if they're working a W2, they get a lunch hour. This is not going to take you 30 minutes to do. You're going to call somebody. You're going to talk to about those things that are where we're focused on growth.   Intro (00:00:32) - Welcome to the how to Scale commercial real estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.   Sam Wilson (00:00:45) - Jay Helms is a financial freedom achiever, a real estate investor living a nomadic, slow travel lifestyle with his family and family of five. He's a founder of the W-2 capitalist, and he's an Amazon number one best selling author.   Sam Wilson (00:00:58) - Jay, welcome to the show.   Jay Helms (00:01:00) - Sam. Thank you. Man, that was. Man, I don't I don't want to say this wrong. This is going to come out wrong. But you got a voice for radio. I got to be careful not to say. Somebody told me once you got a face for radio, I think what it was, I was like, I.   Sam Wilson (00:01:13) - Probably got that too, man. You. You can hurt my feelings. It's all.   Jay Helms (00:01:16) - Good. It's awesome. Thank you for having me.   Sam Wilson (00:01:20) - Absolutely. The pleasure's mine. Jay. There are three questions. However. I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90s or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now? And how did you get there?   Jay Helms (00:01:30) - Yeah. So where I started, uh, like most people who I put in the sophomore level, we started with a single family. Uh, buy and hold, just one, one bedroom, one bath rental property my wife and I bought with a homemaker line of credit.   Jay Helms (00:01:43) - And we have scaled up from there. We've we've done almost anything and everything that does not involve wholesaling and flipping, although we've lived in a couple of living flips and burned a couple of properties. We've joint venture GG LPs. Uh, we're still in a lot of those deals together. That's kind of where we're going to stay, and that's in the small to medium sized multifamily space. And, uh, we've transitioned into lending and hard money lending. Um, and that's kind of where we're at today, even though we've got our portfolio, we've kind of focused on hopefully I see it as a graduation. So we're just, you know, we're lending to people, um, and we're earning a lot higher interest rates. We're not getting to tap into the equity, uh, unless someone a joint venture piece or a GP, uh, or LP deal, but with a lending piece, it's just it's so much more passive than, you know, other stuff. It's just it's incredible. But, uh, how we got there and we're going to talk about this is really through partnerships, right.   Jay Helms (00:02:43) - And getting to know folks and really, uh, learning some, some lessons along the way, uh, about what a great partnership would look like. And, and, uh, you know, I hate that old saying that the only ship doesn't sell as a partnership because it's simply not true. Um, doesn't mean you're going to have some rough seas. Possibly. But, uh, one of the things that I've figured out along the way is not only with investing, do you have to have investing criteria and stick to those investing criteria. You also have to have partnership criteria, and you got to stick to those partnership criteria when an opportunity presents itself.   Sam Wilson (00:03:17) - Man. That's great. That's absolutely great. There's a lot of questions I have probably about kind of that story that you told us, you know, from doing single family residents live in flips, uh, you know, small to medium sized multifamily. And there's a lot of management, I think that goes into that. Maybe we'll get to that partnership side of things.   Sam Wilson (00:03:33) - One of the things that, you know, you and I talked about obviously before, uh, kicking off this show was really talking about a growth trends exercise, which you kind of find is something that I think it's been instrumental in how you've gotten to where you are now. So before we cover those, you know, finer points in your story, maybe we can start there on that growth trends exercise and just tell our listeners what it is and how it applies to them in you.   Jay Helms (00:03:59) - Yeah. And so for clarity, let's give credit where credit is due. I did not create this. I stole this from Hal Elrod, who we, uh, most of us probably know is the author of the Miracle Morning, uh, series. And, uh, so how does this thing where, um, and I heard it from a third party. It doesn't matter where it heard from. I heard from somebody else. It wasn't strictly from Hal, but basically, you take out a piece of paper, right? It doesn't matter how big.   Jay Helms (00:04:24) - Eight and a half by 11. And you draw, uh, two columns on it, right? The left hand column, you're going to label this growth friends and the right hand column you're going to label as maintenance relationships. And I do this exercise with almost everybody who comes to me and says, Jay, I'm having trouble growing. I don't know what what's going on. I'm doing the things like all the all the stuff that people in the podcast say to do. I'm doing this things I'm not growing. But I bet you're not doing this. So here's, here's the exercise is you get out your phone. Right. You got your sheet of paper, you got growth friends and maintenance relationships. For this exercise we're going to label. We're going to define what those two categories are right. Um, growth friends are people who talk about investing in real estate, building wealth, having a better financial future for for yourself and your family. How do you how do you grow your net worth? You're you're talking about growth, right? And the things that are important to you, in this case, real estate investing.   Jay Helms (00:05:20) - Everybody else for the sake of this conversation falls into a maintenance relationship category. Okay? I don't care if it's your mom, your dad, your brother or sister. Everybody else falls into that maintenance relationship category. Okay? Now and I don't know where my phone is, but I was going to show it, like, grab your phone, right. Grab your phone, you scroll to your most recent phone calls. Right. And you're going to go through the top 25, maybe 30 most recent phone calls. And you're going to put folks based on those definitions we just talked about in one of those two columns. Just write down their first name or their initials basically. Once you've done that, now you're going to go to your text message. Because if you're like me, most of your most your conversations or a lot of your conversations are happening over text. Um, I was playing Halo with my son last night, and I'm getting a text from one of my partners. Hey, I found this 12 unit, and so my son and I, we're we're swapping the controller, we're taking turns in Halo and and, uh, while he's doing his turn, I'm sitting here trying to write a property on my phone, you know, as we're doing it.   Jay Helms (00:06:21) - And so. But go through your text messages and you do the same thing, right? Go for maybe the top 2530 text messages. If it's about growing your real estate portfolio, it's about building wealth. Uh, how to, you know, better secure your future financial future for your family. Then those folks or those messages that you're talking to are going to go in the Growth Friends column. Again, everybody else maintenance relationships, even if it's a funny meme that makes you laugh and it's entertainment, it's going to go into the Maintenance Relationships column. And here's what happens when I when I have this conversation with a lot of people. When we go through this exercise, we get to the end of that exercise and in there complaining about, hey, I haven't grown, I don't know what to do. And I was like, look, and you don't even show me your piece of paper. I know what it looks like. You're really heavy on maintenance relationships, right? Like you may have a handful of growth friends.   Jay Helms (00:07:12) - Everybody else is in maintenance relationships. Yep. Yes, that's exactly it. So the easy trick to doubling or just growing your portfolio is changing who you're talking to. Now, I'm not saying that you should go out and tell your mom hey. Or your, you know, your your brother or sister say, hey, I'm not talking to you anymore, right? I'm not saying do that. I'm just saying take. Make two phone calls a day, right? Most people, if they're working a W-2, they get a lunch hour. This is not going to take you 30 minutes to do. You're going to call somebody. You're going to talk to about those things that are where we're focused on growth. At the end of that phone call, you're going to ask them, hey, who else do you know that likes to talk about this stuff? Right? And you keep building it and you're just making two phone calls every day. Mhm. And you do that for six months and then you do that growth uh growth maintenance exercise again.   Jay Helms (00:08:09) - And it's going to be switched. It's going to flop and your portfolio is going to look different. Your mindset is going to be a lot different. And it's just it's amazing what that little exercise can do and that commitment to making those two phone calls a day. It's incredible.   Sam Wilson (00:08:25) - I love that that's that is brilliant. And it's it you. Of course, I'm sitting here thinking through it while you're talking about it. I'm like, man, I wonder. I mean, because because that even because even and I'm thinking through maybe the last 20 phone calls in my phone, it's I mean, it's everybody from, uh, lenders to distributors to I mean, the list just goes on, but none of those would be classified necessarily as great.   Jay Helms (00:08:52) - Yeah, yeah.   Sam Wilson (00:08:53) - Yeah, yeah. You're a supplier. Okay. That's still not a growth phone call. Yeah, it's work, but it's not like it's. It's a maintenance relationship. That's, uh. It is that's convicting because you got to look back at that and you go, oh, like, man, I need to work more on my growth.   Sam Wilson (00:09:07) - Uh, my growth, um, phone calls every day. So I love that. What what why was there? How was this impactful? May I ask a leading question here? You can be like, well, that's a stupid question, Sam, but like, how was this impactful for you? And obviously, you know, like you're saying this can have, you know, wild impacts for everyone else, but what did it do for you implementing this?   Jay Helms (00:09:27) - So the the reason why I started this W2 right is I fell into this category of I didn't grow up in a family of investors. I didn't have friends who were investors or didn't work with. A lot of people, um, didn't work with anybody who was investing, you know, investing in real estate. And we had bought a few. My wife and I, we had bought three properties and, uh, we're like, all right, we're on to something. We're seeing, you know, income come in. And I'm using passive and air quotes passively, even though we were self managing and um, like we're on to something.   Jay Helms (00:10:03) - But I just we've kind of tapped out our resources. Right. Like if we want to grow past this, I've got to get comfortable with partnering with folks. And how do I do that? So I started reaching out to folks and I started, you know, changing the conversation. And come to find out, there was a lot of people just like me who fell in the same boat, right? They didn't have friends or family who were interested in investing. Matter of fact, they looked at them like they were crazy, you know, like, uh, you know, and it was like, hey, let's start having these phone calls frequently, like, I want to talk to you, Jay. And I was like, I want to talk to you because I'm getting excited just having this conversation. And, uh, and so that just kind of kept steamrolling into what we now know as the W-2 capitalist community. And, you know, you're talking about I get challenged on this sometimes when I, when I ask people to go through this exercise, like, all right, let's go through your phone, mister.   Jay Helms (00:10:54) - You know, Mister hotshot, you know, like, I was like, all right, let's go through my phone. I have no problem. And I'll go through it. And it's like, mastermind member, community member, uh, banker, you know, and it's all these things. And I can go through every almost every one of the conversations is about, uh, growth and about how we can grow our portfolio. Matter of fact. So we're we're, um. Uh, we're recording this at 130. I got up around 630 this morning. Had about an hour to myself. I had about 30 minutes to lunch. And I've been. We homeschool our kids. Everybody's home. Um, and so I've had about 30 minutes of interacting with them as I go to the bathroom or whatever. Take a water break, whatever. And so there's there's a couple of hours where, uh, was that? About three hours or so since I got up roughly. And, and the rest of the time it's been on the phone with partners, it's been on with, uh, with, with other, uh, investors who are looking to grow and just, just constantly and I get more out of that.   Jay Helms (00:11:52) - And a lot of them don't understand this, but I get more out of folks when they call and complain and say, hey, I'm having trouble growing. You know, we kind of walk through it. I get more out of those conversations. They probably they probably do, and they don't understand that. But it's just regurgitating and reciprocating what we've learned in the past. And it's also serves as a reminder because. I started this process a long time ago and I drifted from it, right? Life got busy, I still had a W2 and we kind of get stuck in this spot where we're like, hmm. I'm not really growing. And it took a mastermind member who came in his and, uh, he was getting really excited. It had a lot of momentum. I was like, how do you what are you doing to get this momentum? What are you doing, man? I'm making two phone calls every day at lunch because it's something you taught me a couple of years ago. I was like, oh yeah, I did okay.   Jay Helms (00:12:39) - So I was like, so I drifted from it, right? And we all do that from time to time. And it was a good reminder that it really comes down to who you're talking to and who you're spending your time with. Now, I don't mean that. You know, you again, you don't you don't kick the family to the curb, but you just change your conversations that you're having.   Sam Wilson (00:12:58) - Yep. No, I love it. That's fantastic. Uh, fantastic insight. And it's it's it's. Easily implemented, but difficult to do. Is that the right way to say what?   Jay Helms (00:13:10) - Yeah. You're correct. It's the the discipline to do it. And even even today, like, I know uh, like I have time blocks on my calendars to make sure I connect with a certain amount of people a day. There are days when that reminder goes off. Hey, you got to make 2 or 3 phone calls. I'm like, ah, I'm just not feeling it. I'm not. I'm not feeling it.   Jay Helms (00:13:30) - And that some days I'll skip it and then some days I'm reminded of, um, this line from um, oh man, I can picture his face. Extreme ownership guy, Jocko willing. Uh, is that he's asked, you know, on days where you don't feel like going to work out, what do you do? And he goes, well, I go anyway because at least I'm going to go through the motions, you know? And and so I, um, I am not perfect in making my phone calls and doing my reach out, but I am consistent enough where it is producing an incredible result. Right? And incredible enough for me to come on here with such passion, energy to make sure your audience is doing the same thing, because it really is the key to to grow and otherwise, you know, rewind back to where we just had those three properties and we were. We were buying about one property every year, maybe. And, uh, there's no way we could have grown the way we have, um, with just because basically what we're doing is we're taking the, the, the earnings from those properties, putting them into an account, taking some savings from my W2, combining all that up till we had enough for another down payment, going and buying another one.   Jay Helms (00:14:42) - So it took us about a year right to do it. And um, and there's just there's just no way there's no way we would have been able to get to where we are doing that.   Sam Wilson (00:14:52) - Tell me about your business. Like what? What is your business look like today?   Jay Helms (00:14:56) - Yeah. So that's that's an open ended question. Right. So which business W2 Coppolas the real estate. Our portfolio. Like which which one.   Sam Wilson (00:15:04) - Whichever one you want to talk about or both.   Jay Helms (00:15:07) - Yeah. So um the our portfolio we've got a mix. We've got a little mix of, we've got my wife and I, we've got a fourplex ourselves. We got a short term rental ourself. Uh, and then the rest of the stuff we're in is through partnerships, either through joint ventures or limited partners. We're not a general partner on anything right now. Um, so joint ventures, limited partners. And then we also do some hard money lending on the side. Uh, and so all kind of real estate focused and then the W2 cap is what feeds a lot of that.   Jay Helms (00:15:41) - So a lot of our partnerships came from the W2 cap. Because back to that investing or partnership criteria is one of the things that I do is I've got to know you got to know you not for just six. You know, I use a rule of six months, and I can't remember if I read that in a book somewhere, or if it's like the SEC guideline for raising money or taking money from somebody, um, uh, to invest in one of your deals. I shouldn't say taken, but having a partner invest with you in your deal. But I use that rule for, you know, six months. Uh, I got to get to know somebody. And, um, it's just it's one of those things where it's not like, you know, Sam, you and I are going to have a phone call today. Six months from today. We have another phone call, and I checked that box. It's. That's not what I'm talking about. Right? You got to get to know, really know somebody and just helps me filter out a lot of folks from, um, uh, tactics essentially, because, like, like you probably your social media probably gets inundated with, hey, Sam, I got this deal.   Jay Helms (00:16:43) - I want to partner with you on it, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like. And I said, hey, look, I'll take a look with you. Uh, but you just you need to know I have this rule. I got to get to know you before I'm going to partner with you. Um, and nine times out of ten, here's how the conversation goes. It's like. Absolutely, I respect that. We'd love your feedback on this. And I was like, great, let's schedule a call. Just want to reconfirm, you know, I'm not looking to partner, but I'll take a look at this and and poke holes in what you may be thinking, like you asked me to. And nine times out of ten, that's the end of the conversation. There's no follow up from them. Um, they tell me they're okay with that guideline that I've given them, and they just. They don't do it. Uh, the ones that do, uh, we've had a really solid run, right? They they ultimately end up joining the deputy capitalist community because they know there are other investors in there like me.   Jay Helms (00:17:38) - And there's just been so much wealth and so many partnerships have been developed through that. It's just incredible. So it's kind of this whole circle. It's it's it's where the earn invest repeat tagline comes from. Right?   Intro (00:17:51) - Right, right.   Sam Wilson (00:17:53) - Now that makes sense. So if I, if I get the picture correctly, you're the proceeds from what you guys do in the W-2 capitalist. You then feed that back into your current real estate business. How did you start? Tell me about the W2 capitalist community, how you started it. Like how did you get that off the ground? Because that's kind of I mean, it seems like a massive undertaking.   Sam Wilson (00:18:17) - And.   Jay Helms (00:18:17) - It is. And, you know, we have three kids who are nine, six and four. And so when we launched that, it was just a little over five years ago, um, you know, so they were were three and I can't even do the math. Right. Three one and not maybe not even on the way yet.   Sam Wilson (00:18:36) - And, um, years ago, would you say that was.   Jay Helms (00:18:39) - Five years ago?   Sam Wilson (00:18:40) - Got it. Okay.   Jay Helms (00:18:41) - So. So, yeah. For for one and not on the way yet. And, um, we started with one. It was me and a couple of guys we started. It was one phone call week. We did it over zoom, and I think we originally connected on, um. Some Facebook group. Matter of fact. And so and it really just started from there and it was just, hey, let's get together, let's talk. There's no agenda. You know, um, I kind of found myself in the space. I know what we were. We were pregnant with number three in. My wife had had some complications along the way with each of them. And so we had a local ria. Um, I don't like going to in-person meetings. I'm growing it. Being an entrepreneur has pushed me out of my introverted personality. It's pushing me out of that. But, you know, five years ago, I didn't want to be in a room full of people I didn't know.   Jay Helms (00:19:38) - And and so, um, the good thing is I've been working from home for about a decade prior to that. Right? So I was extremely comfortable. I was zooming before zooming was was cool. And I know that ages me, but I'm okay with that. Um, but it was, you know, it's one of those things where I was like, all right, I had joined a virtual mastermind. It wasn't dealing with investing. It was more of a how to become a better father and how to be, you know, a better husband kind of thing. And, uh, because I was new at it, you know, new husband, new father. I was like, we got another one on the way. What do I got to do to to to do this right. Had a lot of perfectionism in me at that point in time. And, uh, and so I joined this group and they were already doing it. And a lot of what I did, I just mimicked off of what they were doing, um, and just kind of created my own.   Jay Helms (00:20:28) - So but it was a massive undertaking. It started with one phone call a week is on Tuesday nights that went for about an hour, an hour and a half, uh, sometimes. And now we're up to over 20 calls a month, uh, that sometimes go to three hours, uh, with I think we've got 60 members at the moment and, uh, it's it's incredible. We focus a lot on the various niches. Most of it is buy and hold and, um, and that's. Yeah, it has it's taken. It didn't happen overnight.   Sam Wilson (00:21:03) - Right. No, I can't, I can't imagine that, uh, that it did. And I think you know what you've done. It sounds very organic, though, in its own right. Yeah, it kind of just. I mean, we, like you set out to build it this way.   Jay Helms (00:21:17) - It didn't. And, you know, one of the things, um, you know, the heart I mentioned hard money lending that came out of listening to members in the community.   Jay Helms (00:21:26) - So, um, two years ago, I started, I kept hearing, you know, we had members in our community. They didn't know how to navigate hard money. They didn't know they didn't have connections to private money. And quite frankly, I didn't either. I've never used either one of them. And, and but I just kept hearing folks like, man, I got this really good deal. Like, all right, let's let's underwrite, let's see how good this deal is. And we'd underwrite together. I was like. Are you sure that's. That's a good deal, you know. And so and so many deals would fall through because they couldn't find short term financing for them. Right. And so after about a year of hearing that, um, well, I'd say after about six months of hearing that, I set out to, okay, let's bring a hard money solution to the community. And, um, about six months later, launched it with a few guys who were among the original founders in the community.   Jay Helms (00:22:19) - So I've gotten to know these guys, you know, by this time for years. And, um, and, and we just we just passed. We incorporated in June of 22, did our first loan in September of 22. And this past September, you know, at our our year anniversary mark, with past 4 million in loan originations for fixed and flippers. So it's it's just it's just a constant kind of art listening to those folks. What do you need? All right, let's go out and find it or let's figure it out right now. Uh, what we can do for that. So it's it has grown a lot more organically. We've spent I've spent a lot of money on ads, and it just never works. And so I've completely abandoned that for now.   Sam Wilson (00:23:04) - Right, right. It's funny. Funny you say that. I've got a, uh. Yeah. We're back. When we were doing single family and doing a lot of fixing flip. There's a guy here in Memphis that I borrowed, you know, quite a bit of money from.   Sam Wilson (00:23:15) - We always tell me he's like, don't tell anybody that I do hard money lending. That was kind of his thing. He's like, I loan to you in about five other people and otherwise keep it quiet. I'm like.   Jay Helms (00:23:23) - Yeah.   Sam Wilson (00:23:24) - I'll do that. So, you know, it kind of. But at the same, at the same token, I think you know, when you're when you're in the hard money lending space, like you really have to know who you're working with and. Yeah, yeah. Which is funny because I went back to him here recently for something that, uh, we had, like you said, you know, very short term, like 90 day, 90 day deals. And it was like, I need money. That's really short term. The price is kind of irrelevant. So I went back to him and said, hey, man, you know, let's let's look at this. He's like, yeah, absolutely. So it's helpful. I mean, incredibly helpful when you have opportunities like that, you just can't pass up.   Sam Wilson (00:23:57) - Like, you know, there's quick, quick turns on stuff that has huge upside. You might as well, uh, take advantage of it. So that's really cool. J we're about out of time here. But I do have one, you know, as you've, as you've done all these different things, as you've done the, you know, the variety of real estate investments as you've grown your W-2 capitalist, what are some things maybe over your real estate investing career or otherwise, if you wish to share on that front that maybe you would do differently? That was, you know, some things you said, man, this was either a misstep or something. I had to learn the lesson the hard way.   Jay Helms (00:24:28) - Yeah. So, you know, while we're called the W2, it was because I had a W2, right. And I was, I was whatever wages we were living off that and then um taking part of our savings and whatnot investing um, you know I would encourage and I got laid off during Covid, right.   Jay Helms (00:24:46) - I was running the sales team and we got I got laid off. And at that moment I just it was the most fearful but best kick in the pants I ever received. And I envy people who can make that decision on their own. Right. And it takes you know, it took me a while, like I got the call from my boss, and, you know, I'm. I'm sweating bullets over here. Got cold sweat. I finally collect myself. I got my wife because that time we had.   Sam Wilson (00:25:12) - A.   Jay Helms (00:25:13) - Five, three and a one year old. Right. And I'm like. All right. And so I go to her and I tell her, hey, there's this guy, here's what's going on. And she says, great, now we can go travel like we've been wanting to do. And I'm like, time out. Like I gotta absorb, you know, the six figure income that just evaporated. Like, we gotta we gotta figure out what we're doing here. And.   Jay Helms (00:25:37) - And so it took her, like, really planting that in me and saying, and you know, and it took me about a year to warm up the idea and to realize, okay, we're going to be okay financially. Like, I, you know, I'm um, um, getting outside of my comfort zone doing, you know, traveling, getting out of being a homebody. It's it's really, you know, and I say all that to say it took her and her her, um. She's so solid in her, the way she views things and whatnot, and I'm extremely lucky to have her. And that, you know, I look at her as my best and most valuable partner. One of the things that frustrates me about her, though, is, is I'll be grinding on an issue for like weeks. And I'll go to her and explain it to her. And like instantly she gives me the most brilliant answer. I'm learning like that time period to go to shortening, but I have trouble asking for help, like, I guess most men.   Jay Helms (00:26:34) - But, um, you know, the thing that I would say is who whoever's listening to this is your partnership is not only with your spouse, but with, you know, potential real estate partners has to be solid, right? It has to be solid. There's no need to rush into a deal. Don't get hyped up or get caught up in the hype of how amazing a, um, a return is going to be. And there's a lot of people right now that I talked to who, when they sit down and they absorb kind of how they got in the situation they're at, they're like, I rushed into it. I didn't really know this person a lot. And I'm not just talking about marriage, but I'm talking about, um, investing as well. And so, um, so yeah, I would, you know, focus on creating that partnership criteria. Um, and here's just to kind of give you some guidelines on what mine looks like is a, uh, you've had to do at least one deal before of some, you know, certain size.   Jay Helms (00:27:30) - Uh, I've got to know you for six months. And kind of the kicker amongst all that is, uh, you can't be divorced more than twice. Um, uh, I believe that everybody has, you know, the right to make a mistake and to correct that mistake or whatnot. But if you're on your third spouse, right, there's there's one of two things are happening. Number one, either a, you don't know how to treat people or B, you don't really you don't know how to make important decisions.   Sam Wilson (00:27:58) - Yeah.   Jay Helms (00:27:58) - And and there's plenty of other people I can partner with. And I know those are my criteria. And I know that there's probably going to make a couple of people mad, but, um, I want to provide that as a guideline. You know, as you're sitting down thinking about your partnership criteria and what that should look for, you know, it could be very, very similar, uh, or something along those lines.   Sam Wilson (00:28:19) - I love it, man. And that's, that's hard truth right there that you're sharing.   Sam Wilson (00:28:23) - And so, you know, if you're listening to this and you just got, you just got, uh, got upset by that statement, you know what? It's it's reality. And sometimes, you know, hard truths or they just are what they are. They got to speak for themselves. I had a friend of the family growing up and and this is he always told me, he said, Sam, if you want to, uh, really know somebody, he said, look at the way they treat these three things. He said, look at how they treat food. Look at how they treat sex, and look at how they treat money. And he goes, and once you have a, you know, a clear picture on those three things, you pretty much know the man.   Sam Wilson (00:28:56) - That's good. That's I like it. Interesting food, sex and money.   Sam Wilson (00:29:00) - Just look at those. Yeah I'm like.   Sam Wilson (00:29:02) - All right, what is.   Jay Helms (00:29:04) - Which is almost all of, uh, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or at least the baseline.   Jay Helms (00:29:09) - Right. That's that's interesting.   Sam Wilson (00:29:11) - Anyway, yeah. So it was it was an equal equally as like, you know, the statement you had to think about for me like, okay, Morton divorce. Yeah. Well, I guess that makes sense because. Yeah. Anyway, on all that front, that's a good time. I've really enjoyed you coming on the show today. Certainly appreciate your insights. And, uh, what you shared with us today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?   Jay Helms (00:29:32) - So the best way to do it, I, I offer my cell phone. Now, this is this is my phone number. And so if anybody because very few people take me up on it and the ones who do, uh, I think enjoy it or whatnot, but just text me, don't call me because I have my phone set up that if you're not stored in my contacts, you're going to go directly to voicemail and it's probably full.   Jay Helms (00:29:52) - So just text me and it's (205) 249-0248.   Sam Wilson (00:29:57) - Perfect. We'll include that there in the show notes. Jay, thank you again for coming on the show today. I certainly appreciate it.   Jay Helms (00:30:03) - Thanks for having me, Sam.   Sam Wilson (00:30:04) - Appreciate it. Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.