Podcasts about mhm

Schlagzeug ist nicht nur Groove, Technik, Timing und Spielweise – Schlagzeug ist auch Sound. Beziehungsweise: Vielleicht gehört ohnehin alles zusammen. Marco Kleebauer ist Schlagzeuger – oder vielmehr ein schlagzeugender Produzent. Unter anderem beliefert er Künstler wie Nina Chuba mit seinen ganz eigenen Groove-Kreationen und hat in den letzten Jahren fleißig bei Bilderbuch mitproduziert. Jemand also, der sein Handwerk versteht. Und genau da sind wir beim Punkt: Früher war alles besser, sagt man manchmal so daher., Handgemachter, die Leute haben ihr Handwerk verstanden – heute ist alles nur noch digital und fake. Aber stimmt das wirklich? Marco ist ein perfektes Beispiel dafür, dass die Symbiose aus beidem der richtige Weg ist. Jahrgang 1994 - Digital Native. Seine ersten Aufnahmen machte er mit Windows und nicht auf irgendeinem Tape-Deck – und doch nutzt er heute beim Produzieren fast nur noch analoge Gerätschaften. Aber stimmt das so? Marco bedient sich der analogen Geräte wie Instrumente und nutzt die digitalen Aufnahmeprogramme als seine Werkzeuge. Das Kreative beginnt für ihn im Experiment mit den analogen Gegebenheiten – ein schlechter Raum ist für ihn der perfekte Spielplatz, um neue Sounds zu entdecken. Ich frage mich: Warum ist dieser Teaser-Text so ernst? Mhm, vielleicht weil ich einfach diese Art zu arbeiten liebe und soooo begeistert war von dem Interview. Darum: BITTE, BITTE hören! Marcos Homepage: https://marcokleebauer.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcokleebauer/ Bilderbuch-Song, produziert von Marco: https://open.spotify.com/intl-de/album/15qdOvExqNH9eVDuupI4tV?si=CohNPzUZS5ONdz4SLTv4jw Tipp: Strawberry Fields https://open.spotify.com/intl-de/track/3Am0IbOxmvlSXro7N5iSfZ?si=67a78c61648b48a5 Patreon Patreon ist endlich online – hoffe ich zumindest. Ihr findet die Seite bei Patreon unter „Trommel Talk – Einfach Schlagzeug“: https://patreon.com/TrommelTalk_EinfachSchlagzeug?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink https://www.patreon.com/posts/hallo-zum-talk-148862844?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link Ich freue mich tierisch, wenn du auf der Seite von Einfach Schlagzeug mal vorbeischaust: https://einfachschlagzeug.de/ Kapitelmarker 00:09 – Start – Strawberry blow my mind 22:36 – The Magical Mystery Textur 28:50 – Let it be the Rec 31:12 – Sgt Peppers Lonely Island Band 40:44 – Help me! 53:17 – Austrian Wood

Mhm! Es wird ganz fein ide neuste Nullnummere - mitem Sevi sine zauberhafte Zaubertränk und Kulinarik usde wiite, schöne Welt. On top: e kontroversi Diskusion über Spontanität.

Forget range anxiety. The electric vehicle market is evolving fast. Host Trevor Freeman welcomes back Plug'n Drive CEO Cara Clairman to unpack Canada's new EV policies. They discuss the surge in used EV sales and the truth about public charging stations. Plus, learn how low-cost salt-based batteries could disrupt the global auto industry. Discover what these massive shifts mean for transportation and the future of energy. Listen to the full episode today. Related links  Plug'n Drive: https://www.plugndrive.ca/ Cara Clairman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cara-clairman-84967318/ thinkenergy episode 71 (EV-olving Transportation): https://thinkenergypodcast.com/episodes/ev-olving-transportation/ Geotab: https://www.geotab.com/  Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-8b612114  Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en      To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405  To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl  To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/  --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/@thinkenergypod Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thinkenergypod/  Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thinkenergypod Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod --- Transcript: [00:00] Trevor Freeman: Welcome to Think Energy, a podcast that dives into the fast-changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators, and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional, and up-and-coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback, or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com. Hi everyone and welcome back. So, any discussion about the energy transition or our efforts to reduce emissions to mitigate the impact of climate change or even just the ongoing adoption of what once might have been considered futuristic technology, inevitably will include electric vehicles, or EVs as we're going to refer to them today. Transportation is one of the major interactions with energy, especially fossil fuel-based energy that most of us have. Heating being the other one. For the average Canadian, how they move around, going to work, going to school, shopping, recreation, etc., very often involves getting into a vehicle which up until maybe 10 years ago, would almost 100% for sure have been a fossil fuel burning vehicle with a few very small exceptions. Today, while the majority of vehicles are still internal combustion engines, there is at least a noteworthy percentage of electric vehicles out there. We probably all know someone who owns an EV, or know someone who knows someone who owns an EV. EVs aren't actually all that new. The first EV showed up in the late 1800s, believe it or not, and at that point and into the early 1900s, it really could have gone either way between electric-powered vehicles and internal combustion vehicles. As we know, internal combustion vehicles definitely won out, and the bulk of the 20th century was all about internal combustion vehicles, and still today that's the dominant method of transportation. But, there is some alternate reality out there where EVs just always were the transportation method of choice. Imagine what the world would look like if that was the case here. But alas, that is not the reality we're living in. The more recent modern EV era kind of sputtered a little bit in the mid-1990s, there was a bit of an attempt, it didn't really pan out, but really got going around let's say 2008-2009, and it's been a steady crawl forward ever since. But, if you are listening to this podcast, chances are you already know all this and you've likely either skipped forward or are listening to me on two times the speed just to get through this to the important stuff, which is EV policy. You never knew you were so excited about policy. So, most of us, including governments, inherently know that the move to EVs is a good thing. It's good for the climate, it's good for consumers, they're kind of better vehicles. But, societal changes don't just happen, and they certainly don't happen fast. So, there has been a suite of policy approaches over the past couple of years or many years to help us get there and help us get there a little bit quicker. In the past year, Canada's EV policy has changed quite a bit. Availability mandates are out, and incentives are back in. Tariffs on Chinese-manufactured vehicles are mostly out, so things are definitely changing. And to help us understand these changes and what they mean, and also just to check in on the state of EVs here in 2026, I'm really excited to have Cara Clairman back on the show. Cara is the President and CEO of Plug'n Drive, a non-profit that strives to accelerate the deployment of electric vehicles to maximize their environmental and economic benefits. And they do this by engaging with Canadians to help dispel myths and fears and uncertainties around EVs using approaches like their EV Discovery Centre, mobile EV education trailer, and their EVs Are for Everyone tour. And this is really about bringing the EV to the individual, to the person, letting them test drive it, touch it, feel it, ask questions of experts. Now, Cara has actually been on the show a number of years ago where she talked to my predecessor, Dan, about the back story of Plug'n Drive a little bit. So, if you're interested in the organization, I encourage you to go back and listen to that episode. We're not going to get into too much of that here today. Cara is a fantastic individual. She's got more than 25 years of experience working in the environmental and sustainability fields, including at Ontario Power Generation where she was OPG's environmental lawyer and later in the role of Vice President of Sustainable Development. Cara was the 2017 recipient of the Women in Renewable Energy's Woman of the Year award, and the 2021 winner of the Al Cormier EV Leadership Award from Electric Mobility Canada. And as you will hear, she is a big fan of EVs, and she thinks you should be, too. Cara Clairman, welcome to the show. [05:01] Cara Clairman: Thank you so much, Trevor. I'm pleased to be here. [05:03] Trevor Freeman: So, this isn't actually your first time on the show, Cara. It's the first time you and I have spoken on this podcast, but you were on our show with my predecessor, Dan, nearly 5 years ago now, and you talked then about how you took Plug'n Drive from just an idea during your time at OPG, to really a national non-profit that's now celebrating its 15th anniversary. And for our listeners, if you're curious about the back story on Plug'n Drive, definitely dig back in the archives and listen to that episode. But, a lot has changed in 15 years, and a lot has changed even in the 4 and a half years since you were last on Think Energy. EVs have gone from kind of this niche idea you'd maybe see one or two around here and there, to, you know, maybe not quite ubiquitous and they're not everywhere, but it seems like they're going in that direction. They're a lot more commonplace. Everybody knows somebody with an EV, or you see them around most times you're out and about. Um, and they are also a very much talked about cornerstone of our national policy. It's an often-talked-about tool for decarbonization. We're going to dive into some of the specifics throughout our conversation, but just looking at the work that you and Plug'n Drive are doing from your EV Discovery Centre to your EVs Are for Everyone tour, how has your mission shifted? Are you moving from convincing people that EVs are a real thing that worked to helping navigate how to get one, what's the complex web of, you know, incentives, etc. What's the difference in your mission now? [06:36] Cara Clairman: Well honestly, I feel like it's really uh the same in a lot of ways. The big difference, as you pointed out, is that we don't really have to explain what an EV is or that it's a decent car. You know, there's some sort of what I would call EV 101 that most people already know now. And like you said, most people have known somebody, or they've at least heard of it. But I would say there's still a high percentage of Canadians that have never ridden or driven one. Uh, and so that's an experience that we find is really the key, like getting the butts in the seats is really the key to helping people get over the hump. And uh, that's sort of the experience that we focus on. We really try to pair a test drive with every event that we do and encourage people to drive so that they can see the benefits go far beyond just the savings and the environmental benefits, that they're just really super fun cars to drive, and if you're a person that likes a quiet, peppy drive, this is the car for you. [07:51] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. Are people coming to your events knowing, "I'm going down the EV path, I'm going to buy one, I need to check this out," or they're coming in kind of thinking, "What are these people doing here at this event or in this parking lot?" Like what draws people to your events? [08:05] Cara Clairman: More more of the former and less of the latter as time goes on, but it depends on the event we're at. So, if it's just they've made an appointment to come see us, which often is the case, we have an appointment system, uh, then they know a little bit, and they're thinking about it, and they want to try it. Uh, if we're just at a festival or fair, which we do, you know, we just are at some event, and they didn't come specifically to see us, uh, then we still meet a lot of people who are like, "What is this?" you know, uh, and so they're earlier in their journey. But what we find is that they need the awareness building, and then they might, you know, make the move a few years down the road, so it still helps them. It's just they're at a different step. [08:50] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, for sure. No, that makes sense. Okay, so what I really want to dive into here today with you is kind of the shifting landscape, or maybe it's already a shifted landscape, um, regarding EV policy, some of the shifts that we've seen even in the last year or two. Um, so recently, you know, we're here in Canada, the federal government repealed the EV availability standard. So, this was the standard that said we want 100% of cars sold in Canada to be zero-emission by the year 2035. [09:27] Cara Clairman: Right. [09:28] Trevor Freeman: And we're moving towards more of an incentive-based strategy. So, a demand-side push rather than an incentive uh sorry, a supply-side push. Does this transition make sense for the average Canadian? Does it risk slowing down the momentum we've built? Kind of where do you stand on on this shift in our approach to EVs? [09:49] Cara Clairman: Right. To be honest, I was a bit disappointed that they repealed what we call a ZEV mandate or ZEV requirement. We were hoping instead of sort of throwing the baby out with the bath water, they would just make the ZEV requirement maybe less onerous and extend the time or something like that, because the benefit of a ZEV mandate um is that it does require dealers to have the vehicles on the lots. And so it actually increases choice, it increases availability, and that's why you hear some people calling it a ZEV availability standard. Trying to explain it to Canadians because it got a bit garbled in the news where it was like, "We're not going to be able to choose a gas car. You're going to be required to buy an EV." Well, that was way down the road. And uh, what it really did in the early years was make sure dealers would have some. And uh, so that's unfortunate, but, you know, got to move on. So, uh, now we're we brought back uh the Feds brought back the rebate, and sales shot up. So, that's good news. And, you know, hopefully, the dealer networks will make the cars available uh in Ontario. The big challenge is that there's still a ZEV availability standard or ZEV mandate in Quebec and British Columbia, which means they get the cars first. And, you know, you do hear, "Oh, this thing doesn't work. This thing is no good." Well, then why do they get the cars and we don't? You know, so it does work. And so, unfortunately, like if you happen to be listening from Quebec or BC, you'll get more choices than we will here in Ontario, and I I, you know, I hope that that, you know, with the demand-side push that, you know, there'll be more showing up. [11:51] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, and we've been through periods where even if you wanted to get uh an EV, even if you wanted if you kind of could afford it, you'd decided this is the right option for me budget-wise, [12:03] Cara Clairman: Yes. [12:04] Trevor Freeman: you're waiting 10 months, or you can't get the option you want and and so [12:08] Cara Clairman: Right. You have to be more tolerant of color or features or whatever. We probably will experience some of that. It's very brand dependent. Like, some brands are very available all across Canada, some aren't. Uh, so it's really quite varied. Um, but um the good news is right now um availability's decent, and there's actually lots available on the used market, and maybe we'll talk about that a little bit later to give people comfort around used, because it's really a great option for people to think about. [12:49] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, absolutely. Let's definitely uh put a pin in that and get back to it. The other big shift I I want to touch on is um or at least it's a big shift that's getting a lot of attention, is the reduction of the previously 100% tariff on Chinese-made EVs down to only a little over 6% now, which effectively opens the doors to Canadians to um have access to these vehicles, so they can be sold in Canada. How do you see this impacting you know, availability and adoption of EVs? Is this going to be a game changer? Are we going to see those kinds of sub-$30,000 EVs on the market? Or is this kind of, you know, one small shift in the market? [13:31] Cara Clairman: Well, the one thing it has done is created tons of curiosity and interest. You know, everybody wants to know about it, everyone wants to see one. Um, there are EV spies, as you may know, everywhere, like EV enthusiasts who are watch, and, you know, we saw some news report that there were a few Chinese EVs on a lot, you know, north of Toronto somewhere, and people are like, "Oh, what brand is this?" and But unfortunately, we don't know uh really the answer to this question that you're asking yet. Um, we're told that the first Chinese EVs will be here in the last quarter of 2026. Uh, and we don't even know yet if they might be brands we already have, you know. They could be Teslas, they could be Volvos or Polestars. Which we already have. [14:22] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. [14:23] Cara Clairman: So, uh, we're hoping we'll see some low cost, you know, BYD or Geelys or whatever else, you know, but we don't know. Yeah. And uh, and it will be exciting to watch, and, you know, we're watching and trying to find out when the first vehicles are going to be available or shown, but nobody knows the answer yet. [14:48] Trevor Freeman: Are you getting like when you interact with people that are in the EV market, are you getting more questions about that? Are people kind of excited about this? Yeah, okay. That's good. [14:56] Cara Clairman: Yes. And it's a mixed bag. You know, some people are very wary about it. Um, and what I try to say is look, we already have you know, these phones. You know, so I'm not worried about the whole security and that someone's going to be watching you know, that part of it I really think is a bit of a red herring. We've already gone there, you know, so so and people's information is out there. You know, I mean, so that's not a big concern to me. Um, I think uh the quality we don't have to worry about. Uh, these cars are widely available in Europe, in uh Mexico, and in South America, and they're good. [15:47] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. [15:48] Cara Clairman: So, we don't have to worry about that. It's just going to be Canadians, you know, be willing to give them a try, and we'll see. Most people say that they would, so we'll see. [15:59] Trevor Freeman: And I guess the, you know, it's either you're trying that car or hopefully the presence of these cars, hopefully a little bit cheaper is also influencing what other manufacturers are doing and realizing, "I've got to compete in that marketplace." [16:11] Cara Clairman: Right, exactly, Trevor. Remember, I mean, you might be too young to remember when the Japanese cars first came to Canada in the 80s. And everyone had these exact same concerns. And you know, what it did was it made the American brands improve. And so, you know, I'm hopeful, and just to remember, these are coming in a very low quantity initially. They're not going to change the market in these next couple of years. If, you know, they open up the door more widely, you know, that's a different thing. But for now, it's a really tiny percentage. It's like less than 50,000 cars, and it's something like 3% of the Canadian auto market, so it's tiny. [17:01] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. Got you. So, the the new uh or the the renewed incentive that the federal government's brought in Electric Vehicle Affordability Program, um which is providing an incentive for electric vehicles or zero-emission vehicles, um there's a strict $50,000 price cap for any imports, meaning some of those higher-end EVs that are made elsewhere won't qualify for this. Is is $50,000 the right price point? I look at just the price of vehicles in general these days, it's definitely trending up, way higher than I would prefer it to be. Is that the right price point given what's available? Is there enough availability under that price point? Um, and you know, does this affect the kind of conversation that you're having with potential buyers? [17:56] Cara Clairman: Right now, there's not a lot available under that price point. I mean, I think it is encouraging certain brands to bring a version that is below the price point. Uh, and it has increased sales, so there obviously are some that, you know, qualify. Uh, the truth is, gas or electric, it's hard to find vehicles under that price point. Um, so yeah, would I have liked it to have been a little more generous? Sure. Uh, but it is helping, and I do see some automakers shifting prices. I mean, I don't know if you saw that Tesla now has brought out a car that fits just under there. Mhm. So it does do that, and uh it does just encourage people to look. And then maybe they'll buy a used EV. Yeah. You know, so it does sort of open the door, it encourages people to have a conversation, to look around, uh it sparks interest, which is a good thing. [19:04] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, and I mean, Ford is looking at how do we come out with a $30,000 truck, and that would qualify for this. [19:11] Cara Clairman: And the Bolt qualifies, the new Bolt, and it's a great car, and the new Leaf, uh, you know, is coming under there. So, there are good cars under there. I mean, Canadians do love their trucks and SUVs, and unfortunately, those do not make it. [19:30] Trevor Freeman: I know. Yeah, you're totally right. Um, so obviously Canadian manufactured EVs are exempt from that price cap. [19:38] Cara Clairman: Yes. [19:39] Trevor Freeman: Are you seeing a game of kind of buy local versus get an incentive? Um, you know, how does this come into play? Is that part of the conversation? [19:51] Cara Clairman: Well, right now, buying local is just about impossible. Yeah. I mean, there's there's literally two vehicles that are made partially in Canada, and, you know, we've heard a bunch of announcements recently that Canadian manufacturing of EVs has either been postponed or gone off the rails altogether, which is really unfortunate, cuz I was really looking forward to being able to buy a Canadian-made EV. Uh, you know, these plans change, they could come back, you don't know. Uh, but right now, it doesn't look that easy to buy a Canadian-made EV. I mean, there's basically the Pacifica and the Dodge Dart. Mhm. You know, that's it uh right now. Uh, and you know, Toyota's going to make some RAV4s, which will be great. Um, you know, Honda just announced they're not going ahead with their plans, um so it's really unfortunate. The thing that I try to remind people is manufacturing is one thing, and EV adoption in a way is completely separate from that, Yeah. because we manufacture cars primarily for the US market. I mean, Canada's almost an afterthought. And so, that's the reason this is happening, it's because of tariffs, it's because of bu- you know, America First policies, it's because of, you know, US politics. And uh, it's really unfortunate for the Canadian auto industry, but it doesn't mean EV adoption won't continue to really grow. It just means we're going to be buying cars that aren't made here. [21:39] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. Well, and that's kind of the next place I want to go with this conversation is our own manufacturing industry, as you've just pointed out, is so tied in with the United States um manufacturing industry and Mexico. That's actually where I grew up in Windsor. My family is an auto family. My first job was kind of in the auto industry. Um, and the intricacies and and interties between those two industries are very, very tight. But, we're at this stage where we seem to be, not seem to be, we definitely are, moving in different directions policy-wise, especially when it comes to EV policy and trade policy in general. Um, that creates challenges and friction. We're trying to build maybe more of a manufacturing base here. The US is trying to pull that back. And that pull is strong. Yeah. It is, yeah. [22:34] Cara Clairman: I mean, they have the population. I mean, we can't fight that very well, and, you know, we'll time will tell. I mean, Trump won't be there forever, but a lot of the damage will have been done. And I know there's a lot of folks really working hard on maintaining the automaker footprint we have here. It's a huge challenge. [22:54] Trevor Freeman: Mhm. Yeah, is there a way to kind of thread that needle for pushing EV adoption? You know, we're kind of falling behind adoption rates that we've seen elsewhere, Europe, Asia, etc. Pushing that while still bolstering our own manufacturing base, trying to maintain these ties with our largest trading partner? Like how how do you I have to admit I'm not an expert on the industrial side, like on the commercial and manufacturing side of things, but from people that are, what I hear is, you know, we may have to let the Chinese, Indian, uh, Vietnamese uh, manufacturers come in and manufacture here in Canada instead of the brands we're used to being manufactured here. And that's something that could happen. That's something that would sort of replace I mean, the ones that are a real problem are the American-made the American brands, you know. They're really feeling the pull to manufacture in the US. Uh, so time will tell. Uh, you know, we may just be making different cars than we were making before. I hope we'll still be making them. [24:14] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, well and there's I mean, you can kind of see the government trying to do exactly what you said, entice companies to do some part of manufacturing here. They've got this tradeable import credit system where, "Hey, if you invest in manufacturing in our country, you get credits to sort of buy your way through our import market. It can offset some of the tariffs that might be in place." You know, that's a mechanism to do exactly what you're saying we might see. [24:41] Cara Clairman: Right. And some of those brands don't mind sending their vehicles anywhere from Canada. You know, they're not as focused on the fact that Canada has what's considered quite a small market, um given our population size. Uh, and I think in the future, well maybe the tariffs are going to change if the American if American politics changes. Yeah. You know, so I do think that's possible, um like I said, some of the damage will have been done if you know, if GM moves production to Detroit or wherever else, you know, they're not going to move back. But um you know, time will tell. I mean, I do think we'll have some manufacturing still in Canada and hopefully more than what it looks like right now. [25:31] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, I mean it'll be interesting to see. As you say, these policies may not be in place forever, but some of the reaction that is going to happen now in terms of do I move my manufacturing base back to the US, that will persist, and you're not going to make two moves, you're going to kind of make a one time tough one. [25:46] Cara Clairman: No, and especially if it creates some job uh you know, a bunch of jobs in the US, the next US president, even if they're Democrat and they get rid of tariffs and stuff, they're not going to move it back. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [25:57] Trevor Freeman: Okay, so um let's let's kind of zoom back in a little bit here. So, Plug'n Drive, um you've been doing these uh EVs Are for Everyone tours, um kind of as we talked about earlier, giving people access that might not otherwise have access to to understand, try out EVs. And you've been doing this kind of across the board, including in smaller communities. Is there something that you hear differently in a small town, a rural area, compared to a big urban center, you know, Toronto, Ottawa, etc. Oh definitely. [26:30] Cara Clairman: Well, the big thing is they don't have access, as you said. So in a smaller community, they might only have a handful of dealers, and those dealers may or may not carry EVs. And so they really don't get a chance to try them, and trying, as I mentioned at the off the top, is the key to buying. Yeah. And uh, whatever preconceived notion you might have had, you know, it kind of melts away once you get behind the wheel, even just the reality of like, "Oh, this is a great car." You know? And and so, whatever that experience, or whatever they thought it might be, it's it's gone. And uh, and so, it's a really important uh part of the process. And so, that's the main thing in a smaller community, they don't have that. Now, the other thing that we noticed is how far people drive. Now, people do drive farther in a smaller community, but what has surprised us is they don't drive as far as they think. Hmm, interesting. Yeah. And most of us actually don't drive as far as we think. Yeah. We might sit in traffic and stuff, even like us, you know, in big cities. Um, but we don't actually go that many kilometers, or not as many as we think. Um, and they don't either. And, you know, what they do is they, you know, into town, back and forth, for soccer, you know, same as anyone. Yeah. You know, so for for for sports or whatever for their kids, and then shopping or see Grandma or whatever. Um, and then once in a while, a long trip. And that is a thing that weighs heavily on Canadian minds is the road trip. Yeah. We are really obsessed with the road trip, and it's a one-off trip. And this is the thing we can't seem to shake loose, which is, you know, "What am I going to do if I need to drive to" and you fill in the X. Yeah. It could be across Canada, which hardly anyone does, or it could be like my trip to Algonquin, or my trip to Maine, or, you know, not right now, trip to uh, PEI let's say. Um, whatever. It's like, that one-off trip is so important to people, and we try to say, "Okay, yeah, that's more challenging in an EV. It can totally be done now, but it's still harder, and we sort of say try to think about your car for the 98-99%, not the 1% of trips." I might have even said this 5 years ago. Like, it's still a thing that we can't seem to, you know, stop people from fixating on, and we sort of say, "You know, with all the money you're going to save, you can" and we should talk about the savings because people do not understand that. Uh, all the money you're going to save, you can rent a car, or do something else, or what I do, once every 2 years, is swap with my brother-in-law who's got a minivan. Mhm. You know, and you can solve that problem for a one-time trip. Don't make that that's a bad way to choose a car anyway, gas or electric. Yeah. You know, because you're going to spend a lot more on gas hauling around a bigger, heavier car. Uh, so, even if you're not ready, it's a bad idea. [30:04] Trevor Freeman: So, in terms of So, availability of charging is one of them, and there's that road trip idea for sure. There's also, I mean, we hear, and me working at the utility, as people are trying to put chargers in, we hear this a lot. People's preferred charging location is at home. We know that, that's where people want to charge, they want to plug in at home. Yes. Not everybody has a driveway or a garage, not everybody can install a charger at home. So, one of the things the federal government has been doing over the last little while is trying to increase access to public charging. Yes. Where are we at with our sort of public charging infrastructure? Is the network kind of built out to handle those road trips, or to handle that kind of, you know, someone who lives in a multi-res building, a condo, an apartment that can't charge at home? Where are we on that front? [31:18] Cara Clairman: Okay. I would say, as a very early adopter, you know, I had my first EV in 2011, so, you know, from my perspective, the network's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was one supercharger, or like, fast, I mean, it was a slow fast charger, uh, in all of Ontario at that time. I mean, so now, there's more than 40,000 chargers across Canada. Uh, there's, you know, about a quarter of those are fast chargers at highway stops and convenient places. If you live in urban suburban Canada, and you commute, it's basically solved. Like, it's so good. I'm- and then, I'm sure someone will listen and say, "Well, for me, it's not." Okay. There- there's still gaps. Is it perfect? No. But it's really quite good, and you just have to go to PlugShare or ChargeHub and take a look, and you'll be shocked at how many chargers there are. I mean, there are a lot. [32:27] Trevor Freeman: For our listeners, PlugShare and ChargeHub are both kinds of resources that map out all the chargers, the status, is it broken, is it fixed, here's what it costs, it's really great resources. [32:39] Cara Clairman: Yes, everything. All the information you need. And all EV drivers will have that app on their phone. Mhm. Uh, then where it is challenging, you know, we got to acknowledge, even like an EV enthusiast like me, got to acknowledge, it's not perfect. Where the big challenges still exist is multi-unit residential, still challenging, and rural remote. Mhm. Still challenging. So, not so much for people who live rural remote, who want to, let's say, drive to town or drive to somewhere, to the city. That's okay. It's if you want to take a really long trip into rural, let's say, from Ottawa to Thunder Bay or Toronto to, you know, Winnipeg. That's still a challenging drive. It's doable, but it's hard. Um, if you're a commuter, which, you know, most of us are, you know, and you can charge at home, I mean, it's done. It's great. I mean, for someone like me, it's fantastic. I mean, I drive about 80 kilometers uh every week, and it's a snap, you know. No problem. Most of the cars have 400-500 kilometers range. I don't even think about it, even on like a minus 30 day. Where where I do think there's the most work that needs to be done is on the MURBs, multi unit residential. And some of the funding that the Feds have put forward for chargers is going into multi-unit, which is great. Mhm. Uh, condos will get done. Condos are getting done. Uh, where it's hard is apartment buildings. I mean, they're so there you need to search for public charging near you. Mhm. And if you're in Quebec, you're probably going to find it pretty easily, BC, it's getting better. Uh, Ontario is still a bit rough, and the Maritimes and the Prairies, super rough. [34:39] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, we do, Hydro Ottawa actually was a recipient of federal funding to install public chargers. We did a lot of public chargers uh public access chargers in multi-unit residential, you know. It's so important, as you said. Everyone wants to charge at home. Exactly, yeah. And, it's the cheapest, it's and we haven't talked about super low night time prices, and being able to plug in overnight and, you know, right now with high gas prices, people are looking into it. It makes a difference. Well, let's talk about the price then, that's kind of the next barrier, is "Ah, it's too expensive, I can't get into it." Um, tell us about the economics around owning an EV. [35:16] Cara Clairman: So, this is a challenge because people see the higher stick- sticker price, and they say, "Oh, EVs are too expensive." Well, they aren't doing the math, and we are trying to, you try to help, we're trying to help. There's other groups trying to help. We have a great calculator on our website to show the total cost of ownership, and to explain that yes, you pay a little bit more upfront, and the $5,000 rebate if you can get it drops that down to about $5K on average. 5k extra, that's the premium, yeah. 5k extra. Yep. Now, you would make that back in 2 to 3 years easily depending on how much you drive, because electricity is like 1/5 the price of gas, and even maybe more like 1/6 now that gas prices have gone up. Mhm. So, if you're paying $2 a liter, um which I hear, is what, you know, We're not far off, yeah. I don't know, I don't buy gas. Yeah. But, uh, $2 a liter, I'm paying the equivalent of, on time of use, of uh, 28¢, and now on ultra-low, 14¢. Um, I mean, a l- per liter equivalent. For the same driving range, yeah. For the same driving. And so, can you imagine that I can fully charge a 500-kilometer car for like 2 bucks overnight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you just can't believe how cheap it is. And if and so if we can get people to sort of understand the pay now to save later, which is hard for people. Yep. And if they lease, it's easier to understand because then they're not sort of shoveling out that money upfront necessarily. Mhm. It's a winner, you know, economically, you know, leaving aside the environmental and health benefits. Mhm. Uh, and so, we really try to help We have a great tool on our website that shows all this called Find Your EV Match, and you can compare any of your own, like all the historic gas cars, like any car that you own is in there. So, let's say you want to compare a 19 99 or a 2015 Civic to a Leaf or a Bolt, or whatever car you're thinking of, uh, you can do the comparison, and it will show you the savings month by month. Mhm. And then it will show you when your kind of hit that crossover and you're in the money. Yeah. And then you basically feel like you're earning money. [37:51] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. I will say, as also, as an EV driver, when I I have two vehicles, one's still a gas car and one's uh an EV, when I have to fill up the gas car, I'm I'm always I compare it to my EV that I don't have to fill up, it's it's night and day when it comes to the cost. It's absolutely night and day. [38:09] Cara Clairman: I mean, it's and also the maintenance. So, there's just no maintenance. I mean, obviously there's a little tiny bit. There's brakes, eventually, even that gets delayed because of the generative braking, Longer, yeah. and, you know, windshield wipers and tires, which you do anyway. I mean, I've now had a Leaf, a Bolt, a Model 3, and an Ioniq 5. Okay, and I have literally never had to do any maintenance except brakes, Mhm on any of them. Yeah, that's amazing. And, they've all been the first gen, right? Like my Leaf was the very first gen Leaf, my Bolt was a first gen Bolt 2017, and uh the Ioniq I think was the second year, which is what I drive now. Yeah. And uh, just nothing. And so, it just to me like, I'm almost like, "I can't believe everybody's not doing it! It's so cheap." Now, I understand some people, if you drive 250 kilometers each way and you, you know, I get it. It's not so simple for everyone. You live in a MURB, but if you live in a single-family home, it's a slam dunk. [39:27] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. So, we've kind of covered charging availability, we've talked about the cost implications. There's a battery performance question of is this battery going to be around for 10 years, the life of the car? [39:39] Cara Clairman: Yes. Especially when used, people are worried about it. [39:41] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, is the range going to get me there, and that kind of ties into charging? Where are we at? Have we seen that technology change in the 15 years that you've been in this space? Where are we at with that? [39:51] Cara Clairman: Yeah. In the early years, I always wanted to be honest, right, because it doesn't help to be overly glowing, and then, you know, people are disappointed, you got to be forthright with people where there are pluses and where there are the minuses. In the early years, of course, the range was really low, and so that was a challenge for people who had to drive long distances. Now the range of the EV is great, that's not an issue for most people anymore. Battery life, people used to say, "Well, how long will the battery last?" And the truthful answer 15 years ago was we don't know, Mhm because there was no information. I mean, Yeah, we hadn't done it. We thought we knew because the Prius had a similar type of battery, as a hybrid, and we thought it should be similar, and those are doing well. Well, now we have 15 years of information, and the batteries are lasting so well. Now, you hear in the news the odd story about a battery crapping out, and it really is anecdotal, and so you can't pay attention to it. Um, it's a lemon situation, right, and that's going to happen, right, there are going to be lemons, just like in a gas car. [41:03] Trevor Freeman: Exactly, yeah. You have to get your engine replaced randomly if you have a lemon, it happens. [41:07] Cara Clairman: Yes, it happens. But the data will tell you, and Geotab has some really good data on their website where they studied how long are these batteries lasting, like 15 years later, and it looks like, for the most part, they're going to outlast the body of the car. Like, 20 years, no problem. So, this idea that you would have to replace a battery is really unrealistic, like, most of us will never have to do that. And no one keeps their car for 20 years, or very few people keep their car for 20 years. No, it's a 10 year window, and if you're like most Canadians, 7 to 10 years, uh, you're not going to be replacing the battery. That's not going to happen. And most of them, uh, sort of a typical battery loss, battery degradation over time is 1 and a half to 2% a year. Hm. So, you're going to see some declines, so let's say at year 5, you should be down no more than 10%, and uh uh, so when you look at a used vehicle, you can do a test on the battery and see how it's doing, something called a State of Health check on the battery. It's a test that any dealer can do, like any service center can do. And you can be confident that it's fine. [42:33] Trevor Freeman: Mhm. So, let's say you brought up used vehicles a couple times here. Let's talk about that as an option for people wanting to get into the EV space maybe a bit more affordably. Yes. Like is the supply out there? Are there a bunch of these sitting around waiting to be scooped up? Yes. Great, now let's talk about it. [42:49] Cara Clairman: Yeah, that's a great news story. So, there's there's um a lot of supply, uh, there's, you know, if you think about it, all the vehicles that come off lease or whatever, you know, even there's now 2023s, you know, available, there're there's a lot of availability. And so, you know, you just go on your favorite, you know, auto trader type magazine, and you will see, uh online, there's tons of availability, and uh, you know, what I say to people if they're worried about battery life, they do that State of Health check on the battery. If you're buying it privately, uh, you can ask. Uh, it's only about a hundred bucks, I think it's worth it. Uh, the other thing you could do, if you just can't figure that out or you don't want to figure that out, is just trickle charge the battery overnight and see, you know, what does it say, how many kilometers uh range you have, and compare that to what the manual says it should have. That's sort of a rule of thumb type of test, it's not as good as the actual test, but it'll give you a good idea. So so the, you know, people should not be afraid of a used EV. And uh, also, if you are really concerned, most of them have, you know, the 8 to 10 year warranty on the battery. And so, if you are really concerned, just make sure you're still in in warranty. Yeah. Uh, you know, don't go older than 8 years, and also check, you know, because sometimes there's a kilometer limit and a year limit, so it's like 8 years or 180,000 kilometers, or you know, they're all a bit different, but um check it, and uh that's a great way of sort of if you still have a year or two left on the on the warranty, then you're sort of safe. Yeah. to see like see how it see how it does. And price point wise, these are coming in at like a reasonable for a used vehicle, a reasonable price point. Totally reasonable, you can get an EVs in the 20s, in the well you can get the oldest ones even lower than that, in like, um, apparently my 2017 Bolt, which we still keep and use, we love it, uh, would only be worth like, I don't know, $12 or $15,000. So, they're cheap, and this one got the battery fixed. I always say to people, the Bolt had a recall on the batteries, 2017 to 2019. And most of them got the battery fixed, so, and then the warranty goes back to year 1. Mhm. So, you basically can get a used Bolt that's almost like a new car because it got a new battery put in, and so those are like gems to find, yeah. Uh, so, they're, you know, that's why we're hanging on to ours, it's great. That's great. [45:41] Trevor Freeman: Okay, Cara, we're getting close to the end of our conversation here. So, uh you know, you've been at this for a while, 15 years of Plug'n Drive, um obviously an EV enthusiast on top of that. What's your general feeling about where we're at right now in 2026? Is it where you thought we would be, maybe looking back a few years ago? Is it, you know, we've got a long road to climb here, where are you? What are you thinking here? [46:08] Cara Clairman: Well, I do tend to be an optimist, but I was probably a little overly optimistic about how fast the transition would happen, and we have had some bumps in the road. Uh, but I would characterize all the stuff that's happened in the last year or two as bumps in the road to eventually everyone having an EV. I mean, I do think it's inevitable still, and I think most of even the, you know, automakers would say it's inevitable. The cars are better, mhm they last better, they perform better, and even without all the environmental and health benefits, they have a lot of other econ- economic benefits. Uh, so I do think it's inevitable. It has been slower than I expected. Mhm. Uh, but, um, I'm still really optimistic about the future, uh, and I think Canadians are going to embrace EVs maybe sooner than than some folks, and and I think all what's happened with with Trump and also this war and all these things has actually got more people asking questions about EVs than ever before, so he accidentally actually spurred on the interest in EVs, which is funny. [47:26] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, and I think we've seen that over over the years, these sort of starts and fits, and no doubt there will be another maybe slow down, but I I tend to agree, we're we're angling in that direction, and there's really no pulling back now. I would, so my oldest is 13, and I remember probably 5, 6, maybe 7 years ago, thinking, "You know, wow, by the time uh he's driving, he may never drive an ICE vehicle, because it'll just all be EVs." So, we haven't quite gotten there, [47:56] Cara Clairman: Yeah, my kids are in their 20s, and they both learned on electric, and they both have never driven a gas car, because we don't have one. Yeah, yeah, that's great. And so I am hopeful, and BC and Quebec have already passed what I would call the tipping point, mhm and so I do think that it's happening, and it's exciting, and it's also a great industry for young people to get into, so um there's lots of lots of pluses. [48:24] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, it's funny on this show, this comes up a lot, and I think all the things that we talked about from utility space to all the energy transition things, EVs being one of them, distributed energy resources, right like if you're a young person looking of what do I get into, what's the thing that I focus on, my goodness, we've got a whole range of things that are are on the cusp, I think of of really taking off, so EVs being one of them. [48:48] Cara Clairman: Electricity, energy, there's a lot of exciting stuff happening in decarbonization, and it's a great field for young people. [48:55] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we always end our interviews with a series of questions to our guests, Cara, so I'm going to throw a few at you here. Um, what's a book that you've read that you think everybody should read? Ah. Uh, so professional or personal? Well, you can go either direction. I'll even give you two if you want to do one of each. [49:15] Cara Clairman: Okay. So, professional, uh, I read a book called, I think it's called, We're All in Sales. And it really helped me when I was starting Plug'n Drive. It sort of helps you get over this like, "Ugh, sales." Yeah. Which I think a lot of people have because they don't want to have to ask for money or you know, pitch for money or whatever. And it made you re- It was just helpful in that it talks about how, I mean, we're all in sales in one way or another. I mean, you have to sell yourself, you have to sell your ideas, you have to sell something. Some of us were more direct than others, but it helped me. Mhm. Um, um, and then, for women who are entering the workforce, uh, I read a book called The Feminine Mistake. And it's a play on The Feminine Mystique, which was a huge book in the 60s. Yeah. And, I found it really helpful as a working mom, and have little kids, and it's hard. It's a really hard phase. And that book really really helped me. Um, and then personal, uh, I just read uh a book that I really enjoyed, um, uh, it's actually just been made into a movie with uh, Sally Field, called Remarkably Bright Creatures. It's about an octopus, and it's from the octopus's point of view. [50:47] Trevor Freeman: Oh, very cool. I just saw a trailer for this movie, actually. Finding it. [50:50] Cara Clairman: Yeah. So read the book before you watch the show, Okay. because books are always better than the movie, and more in depth and everything. So it's a great book, especially if you love the ocean and mhm sea creatures and octo- pi? Octopuses? are so smart and it was just really adorable. It was a really fun book to read. It's not like it's great, it's written really well, but it's not hard to access, it's not, you know, it's it's great. [51:21] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. No, that's a good one, that's a good recommendation. Um, so kind of the same question, but um, you know, for a movie or a show, is there something you've watched recently that really has stood out to you that you kind of think everyone should take a look at? [51:32] Cara Clairman: I went back and watched This Is Spinal Tap, Nice. That's awesome. which I hadn't watched. And my husband had never seen it. Oh, gods. And I was like, "What?" Cuz you know, because of everything that happened with Rob Reiner, we went back and we watched it. Still hilarious. Oh yeah, so good. It really stood the test of time, so funny. [51:53] Trevor Freeman: I've got This has come up before with other guests, I've got a list of you know, those movies that were so great for me as whatever, a teenager, that I'm waiting for my kids, ridiculous though. I mean, I have to warn you, ridiculous. I'm waiting for my kids to get old enough that I can bring them into this or that one, and that's on the list for sure. So we'll crank it up to 11 here. Um, so if someone offers you a free round trip anywhere in the world, where would you go? [52:20] Cara Clairman: Oh wow. Uh, I actually just got back from Morocco, and it was so fantastic. Oh, gods. It was so beautiful. Um, but I've never been anywhere in Asia, I'd love to go to Japan. Mhm. I've never been there, and South Korea, because also they're very advanced in terms of technology and stuff, and I there's so many neat things, like autonomous vans and things that they're already using there, and vehicle-to-grid, and all this stuff, and at the base, I'm an electricity nerd, so I I would love to go there. [52:55] Trevor Freeman: Yeah. Uh, who's someone that you admire? [52:58] Cara Clairman: Oh my gosh, there's so many people I admire. Um, Louise Arbour. Um, our new, for our listeners, our new Canadian, uh, Governor General, yeah. New GG. That's awesome. She is fantastic. What a role model for women. She became a judge from being a professor. Mhm. Um, she ascended in a way that not very many people have. She worked internationally, she's, and, uh, she's also a really nice person, a really good person. Yeah. And, uh, an accessible person, what I would say is that she's not at all arrogant, she's funny, she's nice to talk to. I had the privilege of working with her when I was a student. Oh, very cool. And, uh, she's just amazing, and I watch her with, she's inspiring. [53:57] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, that's uh I I agree, I've been reading obviously about her because she's in the news right now, and for our listeners, that's our new uh Governor General, and if you're not from Canada, you can look up what a Governor General does for us here in Canada. Um, very, very exciting. Um, yeah, I agree. Um, last question, Cara. What's something about the energy sector or its future that you're particularly excited about? [54:21] Cara Clairman: Oh my gosh, well, you know, aside from all the stuff we've just been talking about, Yeah. um, actually, I saw a YouTube video about batteries uh just the other day, a Chinese battery maker. And what they're doing in batteries is really exciting with salt, you know, salt based batteries that are going to be so cheap. Mhm. And they basically have it, like it's not this futuristic thing, it's a salt-based battery that costs like a fraction, and so the cheapest EVs will get made with those, and that's going to be a game changer. Yeah. That's pretty cool. [55:05] Trevor Freeman: It is exciting to think about. Now that we're really focusing on EVs and letting sort of just that normal technological improvement iterative process happen, Right. how quickly we might see some of these barriers that we just talked about get solved. [55:19] Cara Clairman: Yeah, they're putting their new technology into drones, into like air taxis and all this stuff, mhm. It's now, it's not sort of this Jetson's futuristic thing, it's like really happening, so that's pretty exciting. [55:40] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, now the energy transition is here, we say it all the time on this show. It's here. It's here. When people say EVs are the future, I say no, they're right now. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Um, Cara, it's been great chatting with you, thank you so much for making the time this morning. I really appreciate your insight into what's happening. [55:56] Cara Clairman: Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure, nice to talk to you too. [55:58] Trevor Freeman: Yeah, hopefully uh we'll talk again in a few years and be talking about how fast it's moved. [56:02] Cara Clairman: I hope so. [56:03] Trevor Freeman: Awesome. Thanks so much. Take care. Okay, you too. Okay, bye. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Think Energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review, it really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback, comments, or an idea for a show or a guest. You can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com.

En este episodio de The Milk Check en Español, Diego, Yara y Miguel analizan uno de los mercados lácteos más inciertos de los últimos años. El equipo conversa sobre la limitada disponibilidad de leche en algunas regiones de Estados Unidos, la fuerte demanda de leche ultrafiltrada, el sólido mercado de exportación de quesos y por qué el mercado de leche descremada en polvo sigue desconectado de los fundamentos tradicionales. También hablan sobre el incremento en los costos de flete, la creciente necesidad de SMP en México, el cambio en el comportamiento de compra de los clientes al construir inventarios de seguridad y cómo las tensiones geopolíticas, negociaciones comerciales y la volatilidad global están impactando los mercados lácteos alrededor del mundo. Desde NFDM y quesos hasta fletes, futuros y comercio internacional, este episodio cubre los factores más importantes que están definiendo el mercado lácteo actual. ¿Tienes preguntas? Nos encantaría escucharlas. Envíalas abajo y podríamos responderlas en el pódcast. Pregúntale a The Milk Check Diego Carvallo: Buenas tardes a todos nuestros queridos clientes y, proveedores. Los saludamos desde la ciudad de San Luis, donde estamos Miguel, yo, y Yara esta semana reuniéndonos con el equipo para reuniones de estrategia y análisis de mercado. Y bueno, bienvenidos al pódcast de esta semana. Estamos a mediados del mes de mayo con muchísima incertidumbre, muchísimas, eh, comentarios y preguntas sobre el mercado. Yara Morales: Sí, saludos a todos. Miguel Aragón: Así es, sí nos estamos reuniendo aquí en nuestra reunión trimestral, viendo, tratando de, ver la bola de cristal, pero no, no, no, no, está, está- no aparece, no aparece. Yara Morales: Sí, yo creo que las mismas preguntas que nosotros tenemos las tienen todos los clientes y los proveedores también. La verdad, es una incertidumbre todo lo que está pasando con el mercado. Es un año de verdad muy a-atípico, muy diferente a todos los años. O sea, ya, ya muchos clientes hasta nos dicen: «Pues ya no me sirven las referencias que tenemos de todos los estadísticas que teníamos anteriormente». La verdad, ya no, no. Ha sido un año muy difícil para todos. Así es. Diego Carvallo: Si quieren, podemos comenzar hablando un poquito de, de la parte de fluidos y después pasar a, a los productos. Eh, así entendemos un poquito cómo, cómo se sienten los fundamentos. Em, bueno, hemos tenido varias reuniones con el equipo de fluidos y, eh, a pesar de que el número de producción de, de leche de Estados Unidos sigue estando bastante bien, eh, seguimos teniendo un crecimiento bastante sano en la producción de leche, em, estamos viendo, eh, que para el medio del spring flush, que estamos actualmente, no pareciera haber sobrantes de leche, eh, a descuentos tan significativos como lo que había en los años anteriores. Y, eh, eh, la verdad es que ha creado algo de, eh, dudas, algo de preocupación, sobre todo para el equipo de fluidos, porque en estos momentos usualmente estamos viendo la, las cargas de leche descontadas a, a unos descuentos muy importantes y este año no ha sido el caso. Entonces, eh, hay mucha discusión y mucha, eh, como conversaciones sobre la demanda, sobre todo la demanda de lo que son, eh, las cargas ultrafiltradas, que está muy, muy fuerte esa demanda y pareciera que las plantas todavía tienen más capacidad para absorber leche. Em, por el otro lado, la parte de la crema sí está bastante larga, hay bastante producto disponible, pero lo que es la ultrafiltrada y la leche líquida, pareciera que con toda la capacidad nueva que agregamos este año, em… Hay suficiente planta para absorber ese crecimiento. Miguel Aragón: Así es, así es. Eh, un comentario importante que nos hacían los-nuestros compañeros es el de que en estos tiempos las– usualmente las cargas se compran o se mueven a descuento y este año no, se están moviendo a la par, lo cual está causando una incertidumbre bastante alta en el mercado. Diego Carvallo: Si, si ese es el caso ahora en el pleno flush, pues el mercado debería sentirse muy ajustado una vez salgamos del flush. Exacto. Y entremos en periodos de baja producción. Miguel Aragón: Exactamente. Eso lo, lo estamos empezando a ver en, en, en el mercado de futuros, eh, por lo pronto en el lado de lo queso. No sabemos qué tanto se ajuste, pero nos da algo de, de, de pausa ahí de- Sí. Yara Morales: Porque si siguen, este, mandando la leche para la clase uno, que es para toda la leche fortificada, para lo que es el, el, el yogur griego y, y lo que es el cottage, pues la verdad es que mucha leche se va a ir para allá. Eh, va a estar todavía muy escasa. Clase uno y clase tres. Diego Carvallo: Clase tres. Mhm. Exactamente. Clase uno y clase tres. Es importante aclarar también que e-e-ese panorama que estábamos describiendo es sobre todo lo que es, eh, al este de las montañas, de los Rockies. Todo lo que es California y la costa oeste, sí tengo entendido que hay bastante leche. Hay bastante leche. Que la leche sigue bien larga. Sí, así es. De hecho, uno, ayer coment– eh, estaba en plática con un-uno de nuestros proveedores y nos decían que tienen suficiente leche para las plantas de queso, en, por lo menos en California. Eh, y lo que comentabas, Diego, definitivamente esto se está viendo para el lado este y para el, el, de hecho, plantas en el centro del suroes– en el sureste. Sí, sí. El caso de la costa este ha estado muy ajustado de hace muchos años. Bueno, este año, eh, ese nivel, ese tightness, esa falta de leche, se ve aún más, eh, pronunciada. Em, bueno, con eso podemos entonces hacer como un, un cambio y empezar a hablar un poquito más de los, de los subproductos. Eh, Miguel, ¿quieres hablar un poquito de la parte de quesos antes de entrar en, en los polvos? Sí, sí. De hecho, ah, es, el– aunque el mercado doméstico sigue teniendo suficiente producto para la demanda que tenemos, el mercado de exportación es completamente otro tema. Eh, más que u– esta semana estamos viendo algo de movimiento en los mercados de Asia y, este, y Oceanía, con la, una demanda que se está incrementando. Miguel Aragón: Ojo, cuando eso es, esos mercados se llevan bastante producto. Habían estado algo dormidos, eh, las últimas Seis semanas, ocho semanas. Pero estamos viendo que ahora al parecer la están ya buscando producto otra vez. Eso tal vez nos va a poner algo de, de restricciones de producto para México, Centroamérica, Suramérica, porque al parecer lo pagan mejor, eh- Estados Unidos es el país más competitivo en este momento para lo que son quesos, ¿no? Sigue siendo el más competitivo. Así es, así es. Aunque hay algo de, de sobre todo mozzarella, de, de, de– hubo algo de producción en Europa, pero no, seguimos siendo los más competitivos, Diego Carvallo: sobre todo en los cheddar. Ya, ya, ya. Okey, interesante. ¿Y si están viendo, eh, en lo que va de año un aumento en todo lo que son exportaciones a esas regiones? Sí, todo, Miguel Aragón: sí, los, los mercados a los que hemos exportado siguen creciendo, sigue creciendo la demanda. Eh, aún no podemos ver, eh, cómo, se desparrama la demanda o cómo, cómo se– cuándo es más demanda y menos demanda, porque ha sig– ha seguido creciendo constantemente. ¿Y Diego Carvallo: cuál es, eh, tu outlook para el resto del año? ¿Estás– tú sientes que el mercado ha conseguido un soporte bastante claro y que la demanda puede mantener los precios actuales o, o sientes más bien que en algún momento podemos volver a caer? No, la, creo que Miguel Aragón: estamos en un, en un, tenemos un piso. Ya. Y aunque hemos creído que vamos a estar en un rango, al contrario, creemos que tal vez, eh, el mercado empiece a tratar de, de, de, de subir un poco, de apuntar para arriba- De romper esa resistencia. De romper esa resistencia hacia arriba. Pero, ah, todo depende cómo, cómo siga la demanda doméstica, porque eso es lo que nos va, nos va a marcar Diego Carvallo: la pauta. ¿Y el tema de la guerra en Irán está afectando en algo la demanda de los clientes de ustedes en el sureste asiático? Miguel Aragón: Definitivamente, definitivamente. De hecho, tuvimos algo de cargas nosotros que, que anduvieron dando vueltas. Hasta en la India teníamos cargas que, que iban a, a Arabia Saudita, eh, y nos, nos afecta a nosotros, pero está afectando a todos los productores también. Eh, y es un mercado por varias cosas. U-una, porque no podemos entrar, pero otra, la más importante, es porque las aseguradoras no nos están asegurando las cargas que van para ese mercado. Nadie las asegura y si no las aseguran El mercado claro no puede, no puede tomarlo, no puede tomar ese producto Es demasiado riesgo. Ya, Diego Carvallo: ya, ya. Miguel Aragón: Imagínate Yara Morales: el transporte, cómo se está incrementando también Diego Carvallo: con todo eso. Eso es lo siguiente, eso es lo siguiente. Es un tema que vamos a hablar también, que está afectando sobre todo a los productos más económicos, porque representan un porcentaje más alto del, del costo del producto. Sé que ahorita todo el mundo quiere hablar mucho de nonfat, así que si quieren pasamos un poquito a hablar ese tema- Nos dedicamos al nonfat. Que es el más complicado en este momento. Eh, mira, en pocas palabras, yo diría, en este momento estamos viendo un mercado que está de cierta manera desconectado entre lo que es lo, lo que estamos viendo en los fundamentos con lo que estamos viendo en la realidad del mercado físico. Los fundamentos, eh, apuntan y todos los reportes del USDA apuntan a que hay un crecimiento en la producción de nonfat, hay un crecimiento en la producción de SMP y hay inventarios relativamente sanos. Sin embargo, lo que estamos viendo en el mercado spot, en el mercado actual, es algo bastante distinto. Y puede ser por algunos factores como los de los recalls que tuvimos, eh, ¿cómo se dice un recall en español? La- Reclamos. Un reclamo de producción que tuvimos durante los últimos meses que ajustaron el mercado, pero la realidad es que el mercado spot, el mercado físico actualmente sigue estando sumamente ajustado. Hay muy poco producto, la mayoría de las plantas siguen completamente sobrevendidas. Eh, los traders y revendedores tienen muy poco inventario en mano. Y también vemos ese mismo patrón desde el punto de vista de los clientes. La mayoría de los clientes siguen todavía bastante cortos de producto y necesitan may-mayor, mayor volumen para saciar sus inventarios de seguridad y su producción. Entonces, eh, yo diría, en el corto plazo todavía vemos un mercado bastante bien sostenido, pero creemos que una vez pase el spring flush, después de estos dos próximos dos meses, deberíamos ver una mejor correlación entre lo que es el mercado físico o el CME Cash y el mercado de futuros. Y creemos que principalmente el CME Cash debería hacer gran parte de ese trabajo para llegar a un nivel más cercano a donde están los futuros. Es decir, creemos que debería haber cierta, eh, corrección y consolidación en un nivel posiblemente cercano a, a los cuatro mil quinientos, cuatro mil seiscientos, para de ahí poder buscar, eh, opciones de moverse para más arriba o mantenerse firme el resto del año. Sí somos, eh, creyentes de que el resto del año el polo va a seguir bastante ajustado, pero no creemos que nos podamos mantener en los precios que estamos actualmente, que son dos dólares treinta por libra, que es un precio en el que ya empezamos a ver que la demanda se frena un poco Okey. Em, todo lo que son MPC, eh, MPC setenta y MPC ochenta han seguido mucho ese patrón en el que el mercado está muy ajustado, no hay suficiente producto y hay mucha demanda que ha venido de sports nutrition, de otras aplicaciones a buscar, eh, sustitutos en el mercado del MPC. Em, Yarita, cuéntanos un poquito cómo has visto tú la demanda, cómo has visto a tus clientes en México, eh, ¿cuál es la expectativa de mercado desde el punto de vista del cliente mexicano? Yara Morales: Bueno, la, la verdad es que con toda la escasez que hubo en los primeros meses y que no podíamos surtirles la leche, porque todos los proveedores nos agarraron sin inventario y a México lo agarraron sin inventario. Afortunadamente, ya a partir de marzo, abril, ya empezaron a recibir producto. Entonces, ahorita los clientes en México tengo entendido que ya tienen un poquito más de inventario. Aparte, pues están cerrando contratos, eh, se está comprando SMP de, de Europa, los que tienen cupo y el producto va a empezar a llegar ya en mayo y son precios más competitivos. Los precios tan altos, los, eh, clientes finales, pues obviamente tienen una resistencia ya a pagar estos precios tan altos y empezaron a utilizar la leche fresca, que había bastante, ¿verdad? Este, podían encontrar hasta de cuatro pesos por litro. Ahorita ya no hay, se está escaseando. Todo el norte de México, ya la leche fresca está escaseando demasiado. Ahorita hay un poco más en el centro, que es donde también hay bastante producción de leche fresca, pero va a llegar el momento, como ya a finales de junio, julio, que empieza a escasear la leche fresca. Entonces, definitivamente va a haber una necesidad de leche descremada. Aparte de las formulaciones, pues ya las tienen con la leche descremada. Y la verdad es que todavía sigue habiendo, este, demanda. Ya no igual como en un principio que estaba todo mundo desesperado tratando de conseguir y recibir algo, pero de cualquier manera sigue la demanda, sigue todavía los clientes tratando de conseguir producto. Diego Carvallo: Y es difícil que no vengan a comprar a Estados Unidos. Por eso, por eso yo soy de la creencia que el mercado se va a mantener bastante firme por el resto del año, porque las importaciones de Europa sabemos que va a ser un volumen limitado, menos de diez mil toneladas, posiblemente para todo el año. Eh, si hay poca leche bronca en México, no van a tener otra opción que o, o consumir menos o, o venir a comprar a Estados Unidos, en pocas palabras. Entonces, eh, sí, yo creo que eso debería dar soporte. Debería marcar al menos un piso en los precios de, del nonfat. Quería Miguel Aragón: a-adherir un poco una reseña. En el– ahora que estuvimos en Chicago atendiendo el ADPI, estuvimos juntas con algunos, ah, productores de, de, de comida aquí en Estados Unidos y nos comentaban algo que tal, tal vez quisiera ver ustedes qué opinan. Eh, muchos Yo era de la creencia que nada más en México compraban al día, por decirlo así, y, y no había contratos largos. Resulta que en Estados Unidos era la misma situación y con varias de las empresas que nos juntamos nos dijeron: es que ahora estamos tratando de decidir si contratamos toda la segunda mitad del año, eh, a estos precios o nos esperamos. Es la gran cuestión ahí con las empresas que estuvimos platicando dentro de Estados Unidos. Y eso era nonfat Diego Carvallo: también o queso también. Nonfat. Ajá. Principalmente. Nosotros hemos visto exactamente ese mismo patrón. Los clientes en Estados Unidos tenían inventario al día, tenían una carga de, que tenían que utilizar esta semana y a la semana siguiente les llegaba otra carga y no tenían inventario. Ahora la tendencia es comenzar a construir inventario de seguridad, proteger para al menos dos o tres meses para protegerse de que una carga esté demorada o que no haya producto. Así es, exactamente. Miguel Aragón: Creo que Diego Carvallo: es una reseña muy Miguel Aragón: interesante Diego Carvallo: que, no la había Miguel Aragón: visto yo Diego Carvallo: y se ve ahora. Y eso resulta en demanda adicional, porque eso a la final, cuando todos los clientes de Estados Unidos, muchos, tratan de crear inventario de seguridad a la misma vez, cuando el mercado está muy ajustado, crea un crecimiento en la demanda que no es artif– no es orgánico, pero sí crea una subida en la Miguel Aragón: demanda. Así es. Y creo que alarga esta, esta cuestión que estamos viendo ahora. Está ajustado. Sí, Yara Morales: y lo hemos estado viendo con los clientes de México, los queseros, los que tienen plantas de queso, que han querido cuando menos tener la seguridad de que van a tener el producto, por eso pagan los precios. Entonces, han estado comprando con precios hasta meses adelantados. Y es, y era algo que no se veía. ¿Por qué? Pues porque estamos tan cerca que pueden llevarse el producto, pues en una semana o dos semanas y ya tienen la leche. Pero ahorita con esta escasez, pues la verdad que prefieren cerrar contratos largos, aunque sean meses más adelantados. Diego Carvallo: Correcto, correcto. Un punto también importante mencionar es el costo, cómo está afectando el mercado los altos costos de combustible y de flete, sobre todo para productos económicos. Hace poco estuvimos cotizando algunas cargas de permeato a México y a diferentes partes de Asia, y el costo del flete ha subido muchísimo. Eh, es algo que también está afectando a muchos clientes y viene dado a raíz del conflicto en Asia. Eh, ¿cómo está afectando eso a, a su, a la demanda de queso? Miguel Aragón: Definitivamente nos está afectando porque en, en, como saben, manejamos, eh, tres líneas de queso nosotros. Manejamos el queso de primera, eh, que tal vez es el que no, no refleja tanto, eh, el, el incremento en flete, pero lo refleja, pero lo puede absorber un poco más. Pero en el producto, ah, grado B que decimos nosotros, que se supone que era un poco más barato, eh, sí le afecta porque es un producto más barato. Y ahora el producto, eh, que manejamos para reproceso, que es el producto barato, es el producto para extender la proteína en el queso, eh, para hacer más queso, sobre todo queso análogo, ahí sí se sintió fuerte el i-el impacto del flete, porque a veces son– o sea, ha subido cuatro o cinco centavos por libra de diferentes lugares. Depende de, depende de la geografía de Estados Unidos, de donde estemos mandando el queso y es donde más nos ha afectado. Totalmente. En el Diego Carvallo: producto más barato. Igual que- Y, y no solo es en fletes marítimos, sino en fletes terrestres. La parte del transporte en camión en Estados Unidos ha subido mucho. Nosotros solíamos pagar cuatro o cinco centavos para mover una carga de California a El Paso. Hoy en día ese precio está cercano a los seis, o sea, ha subido un cerca de un 20 % En, en la– cuando movemos Miguel Aragón: produ– movemos queso de, de, de Washington a, a El Paso, estábamos pagando trece centavos la libra. Hoy día diecisiete centavos, a veces dieciocho centavos. Y de-dependiendo también si, si se empieza a mover algo como de, digamos, de, del sur, de, de, del suroeste, cuando empieza a moverse mucho melón o cosas así, o cuando viene la temporada de árboles de Navidad, depende de la temporada, esto va, va a incrementarse aún más. Sí. Yara Morales: Igual que el refrigerado. El refrigerado se estaban pagando doce centavos y ahorita ya están cerca de dieciocho centavos. Entonces sí ha Miguel Aragón: subido bastante. Sí, sí, sí, nos está afectando en el queso, en la, en el movimiento del queso y en el movimiento de la mantequilla, definitivamente. Yara Morales: También. El Diego Carvallo: último tema que nos ha preguntado mucho la gente. Cuéntenos un poquito sobre el tratado de libre comercio y qué expectativas hay ahora que se vuelve a negociar entre Estados Unidos y México Bueno, Yara, tú ya has escuchado porque- La verdad, Yara Morales: hay mucha incertidumbre, hay muchas preguntas. Eh, ahora en junio que viene la revisión, pues, mmm, son varios, varios factores, ¿no? Se viene el, la revisión del Tratado de Libre Comercio y se viene el Mundial de fútbol en los tres países. Entonces todo el mundo anda como que muy alterado con todo eso, porque no saben, no sabemos qué es lo que vaya a pasar, no sabemos cómo se vaya a, a mover ese Tratado de Libre Comercio, si se va a renegociar, qué porcentajes pudieran darse o si vamos a quedar en cero, que es lo que todo mundo pretende, porque pues es la economía de México. La economía de México realmente necesita ese Tratado de Libre Comercio. Y, este, y yo creo que todos, porque para todos es un beneficio, ¿no? Inclusive para Estados Unidos. Entonces hay mucha incertidumbre, ¿no? La verdad, mmm, yo pregunto y ando investigando y todos mis clientes pues no saben qué es lo que vaya a pasar. Miguel Aragón: Así es. Y nos está… esta incertidumbre nos afecta día a día, eh, sobre todo con México por la cuestión del tipo de cambio, porque sale un encabezado y se dispara el dólar, eh, sale otro encabezado y se fortalece el peso. Es cuestión de todos los días, todos los días, este, y las, la cuestión política nos, nos, sí nos está afectando bastante. No, Diego Carvallo: no hay certidumbre. Miguel Aragón: Claro. Eh, pero una cosa superimportante que, que, que creo que está, eh, afectando algo lo del tratado y muchas otras cosas es que se nos vienen las elecciones primarias en, en, aquí en noviembre- Estados Unidos. Estados Unidos. Y a eso tú sabes que- Es muy importante. Es muy importante, porque hay que mover el, el, el, el, el, el, lo que piensa el público. Claro, hay que ganar los votos. Y hay que ganar los votos y aquí vamos a ver si se va a hacer cosas para, para tratar de tener algún efecto sobre eso. Y muchas veces no tiene nada que ver con México, Diego Carvallo: obviamente, también las de Irán, pero el mercado, básicamente, yo creo que va a mantener mucha volatilidad, va, va a haber mucha incertidumbre y, eh, las, las monedas van a tener, obviamente, como resultado una variación bastante violenta. Los bancos nos afectan. Exactamente. Yara Morales: Sí. ¿ Diego Carvallo: Qué otro punto importante? Definitivo, Yara Morales: definitivo. Ay, pues yo creo que todo esto es bien interesante. Vamos a ver qué sucede. Este, no sé qué otra cosa podemos Diego Carvallo: manejar. Voy a estar, yo voy a estar en Antad la próxima semana. Eh, lastimosamente, esta vez no me van a poder acompañar Yara y Miguel Pero yo voy a estar en Antalas, así que con mucho gusto, eh, me, me encantaría conocer y encontrarme con algunos de nuestros clientes estando allá. Así que no duden en, en contactarnos. Así es, así es. Desafortunadamente, Miguel Aragón: yo Diego Carvallo: no Miguel Aragón: voy. Sí. Ah, pero yo voy a estar en, en, en Alimentec, en Bogotá, creo que es. Entonces, si alguien nos está viendo en Colombia o que vaya a estar en Alimentec, por ahí estamos. Excelente, excelente. Que Yara Morales: por cierto también va a haber elecciones en Colombia. Miguel Aragón: También. Así es. Sí, Yara Morales: también va a haber elecciones en Colombia. Hay que ver cómo, cómo se- Más volatilidad. Se ve todo. Más volatilidad todavía. Más Diego Carvallo: gasolina al fuego, sí. Bueno, mil gracias a todos. Gracias, Miguel y Yara. Gracias. Gracias, gusto en Yara Morales: saludarlos a todos. Bye

Unlocking the secret to blending creativity with everyday life, Peter Hickson's surprising journey from accountant to artist reveals how curiosity, humor, and bold experimentation can transform your world. If you've ever felt stuck in a routine or unsure how to start your creative passion, this episode is your blueprint for unleashing the artist within. Peter Hickson is a former accountant, cattle property owner, and award-winning photographer with deep ties to rural Australia. Born in Sydney and raised partly in the Gulf of Carpentaria, he built an international career with Touche Ross and Price Waterhouse before co-founding accounting firm MHM in 1996, later retiring in 2017 after its acquisition by RSM. He continues to own his family’s cattle property, Melinda Downs, and is passionate about travel, golf, and photography. His acclaimed photographic work has won numerous international and domestic awards, with his current series, Australian Gothic, blending humour, rural Australian landscapes, and a touch of absurdity. LINKS: Peter Hickson - Special Guest Instagram: @peterhicksonphotographer Paul Fairweather - Co-host https://www.paulfairweather.com Chris Meredith - Co-host https://www.chrismeredith.com.au See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ever wrestled with a question that felt too big to answer—something that Google couldn't quite help with, and the Bible app just gave a list of verses that didn't really land? We live in a world of instant answers, but spiritual wisdom takes more than a search bar. So, how do we actually find answers to hard questions using God's Word first, not last? Today's episode is called “Bible First: Finding Real Answers to Questions”, and we're talking about how to study, search, and investigate hard topics using Scripture, not just shortcuts. And the episode is less about specific questions and more about methods to use when searching for answers. When you have a question, where do you usually start? Why do you take this approach? Be honest! Here are more questions to consider: Why is our default to Google or search in the Bible app? And is that always bad? What does it look like to actually investigate using Scripture alone? What types of resources can we use when searching for answers? What makes this kind of study so hard for most of us? What fruit comes from doing it “the hard way”—the Bible-first way? What do we really need when we're studying? TIME and PATIENCE! I hope our listeners know that that Google is not our enemy, but we should still question the root, and the effect, of getting quick answers that we seldom meditate upon. How do you need to slow down, read, reread, and ponder God's word? This is a challenge for me, as well. We don't learn everything all at once; growth takes time. We are always learning! We encourage you to keep reading, praying, and talking with the Lord about your questions. Then, speak with mature Christians who have navigated similar questions and know their Bibles well. Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode! UNEDITED TRANSCRIPTION: 00:00:00 Patricia: Have you ever wrestled with a question that felt too big to answer? Something that Google couldn’t quite help you with? And the Bible app just gave a list of verses that didn’t really land. We live in a world of instant answers, but gaining spiritual wisdom takes more than just searching in a search bar. So today’s podcast is about using the Bible first finding real answers to our questions. Welcome to our Patterns of Truth podcast. I’m Patricia, your host, and today we are talking about how to study, search and investigate hard topics using the scriptures and not just shortcuts. Shortcuts are not a bad thing. We’ll talk about that. Um, but we want to kind of reexamine the practices that we engage in when we’re searching for answers. So this episode is about is not really about specific questions, specific hard questions that we seek to answer, but more about the methods that we can use when searching for those answers. So hello to everyone on the podcast today. Hello, Peter. Hello, Roy. Hello, Bethel. How are you all doing today? 00:01:05 Peter: Hello, hello. 00:01:07 Roy: Hey, great. Rainy and cold in Oregon. Oh it’s raining. Yeah. Rainy. 00:01:15 Bethel: Not humid here. 00:01:17 Patricia: Yeah. 00:01:17 Peter: Whereas here Bethel. 00:01:19 Bethel: Right now it’s Jersey. 00:01:21 Patricia: Yeah. 00:01:22 Bethel: It’s not Philly. It’s Jersey today. 00:01:24 Patricia: Jersey. Welcome back. All right. So um I’ll start with a panel question for all of us. So when any of us have a question, something popped into your mind. Somebody talks about something. Where do you usually start to find the answer? It can be any resource. It could be Google, it could be another. Right. So where do you start and why do you take this approach? 00:01:52 Bethel: I’m a Googler. 00:01:54 Patricia: All right. Yeah. 00:01:55 Bethel: Everybody and everybody makes fun of me that I even use Google because everybody just uses AI. Like everybody’s just like, just ask ChatGPT. Just ask ChatGPT. Um, so even googling is like outdated at this point, but depending on how deep I might text my dad. 00:02:11 Patricia: Oh, nice. All right. Cool. Roy? Peter. 00:02:17 Roy: Um, I asked my wife. 00:02:19 Patricia: Okay. 00:02:21 Roy: Um, good place to start. That’s good intuition. Um, my daughter, um, who also has very good insight. Um, and then it depends on what kind of a question. And I appreciate the Google answer. Um, in fact, I did, I used Google just the other day when I wanted to know the initial, um, area that was assigned to the tribe of Dan and I got a pretty good answer. So if the question is specific enough, um, then I think, um, Google is fine or I don’t know about chat, I haven’t used chat GP so I don’t know how that works, but I know Google uses AI underneath. So Google basically a, a front end to an AI program. Yeah. But it has to be specific. It depends on the type of question. 00:03:18 Patricia: Yeah, I like that you mentioned that because sometimes you could do like a broad question and then who knows what you’re going to get just just how Google works. Right. Sorry, Peter. 00:03:28 Peter: Yeah. I, I would say I try to find the shortest article I find, usually from kind of the same circle of church community. Amen. Um, um, and uh, definitely Google. Like sometimes it’s like a specific website that I go to other than, uh, I find got questions sometimes is a website that would help a lot in like general questions. Uh, if it’s something specific, more doctrine, I go back to the like some brief, uh, article and then control F to find. Yeah, the article. So, uh, yeah, I do that. 00:04:12 Patricia: Yeah. All right. That’s practical, I like it. I tend to start with the Bible app for some reason, right? There’s just, I don’t know, it’s, uh, it’s easy and I don’t know, there’s something I like Google, but I feel like So I really slow down and I think about like, what I feel when I Google something, I usually feel fear because I think that there are questions that I may have that when I Google it, there are harmful or anti-God, anti-Christian things that seem to pop up at the top. And I honestly just don’t want to see that when I’m searching out something. I don’t know what it is, but it just really disturbs me. Um, I know some people can see it and just discard it, but for me, it just, it really unsettles me. So I tend to like not want to go to Google for some reason. So maybe the Bible app, I’m trying to protect myself in some way. I’m not sure. But, um, our first question really is about like, why do we think that, um, a more popular default for searching for any question will be Google or a search in the Bible app? Why is that something that we tend to do these days? And is that always a bad thing? 00:05:21 Peter: Well, convenience. 00:05:24 Patricia: Um. 00:05:25 Roy: It depends a lot on the question. 00:05:28 Patricia: Do you ever feel like. Or maybe I should ask it this way? Is there a scenario where you find something on Google or a different tool, and it makes you immediately stop searching? Like you don’t go back to your Bible? Or does the opposite happen? You find what you need and then you say, oh, I want to go deeper. What does that look like? 00:05:50 Roy: Really depends upon the subject matter and the question. Okay. Um, I think, you know. 00:05:56 Peter: Yeah. I mean, for, for Patricia’s point, um, that’s a good point because I think when I Google things, it does stop me from digging more into scripture because I found the solution or at least part of an answer, and then I’m satisfied with it. Um, so that’s a, that’s a good point. I mean, we’re definitely not against technology. We should use technology. Um, if it’s your favorite AI search, LLM or Google, uh, it can be useful. Um, but, um, I think studying scripture as we can talk soon about is and, uh, like changing your heart through studying scripture is more just knowledge. Um, and I think you reach just knowledge if you like, get the answer quickly. 00:06:55 Roy: Yes. That’s very important point. Uh, and I want to emphasize that we are talking about having a specific question or a question about something. We get an answer, but that should lead us to dig deeper. And that should even that even specific studies should not keep us from regular Bible reading. Um, and that’s where we gain a general knowledge of God’s character. Um, you know, there’s a, a rule, there’s apps and whatnot that lead you through the Bible? Genesis to revelation in a year? Well, you may or may not want to use one of those apps, but the point is you have to be generally familiar with your Bible. I found questions that are, quite surprisingly in books like Ecclesiastes or Proverbs or Chronicles, and that seem to have nothing to do with the subject matter, but they. But they’re put in a way that for trigger thinking about things in a different way. So general Bible reading needs to always be done on a regular basis. 00:08:03 Patricia: Yeah. So leading into that, um, or coming out of that point, I should say, uh, if we had no technology, right. I couldn’t use my phone. Google’s down. It does happen from time to time, right? We can’t get to the website that we want. Um, I’m thinking about that AWS blackout from a few weeks ago where people were panicking. They couldn’t find anything. So if we only had our Bible in front of us, the actual physical volume, what does it look like to investigate using Scripture alone? Where does it start? 00:08:38 Roy: Need to know the books of the Bible and where they are. 00:08:41 Patricia: Mhm. Mhm. 00:08:44 Speaker 6: And I think maybe a general gist of what’s happening in each one. 00:08:48 Patricia: Yeah. 00:08:49 Roy: Definitely the difference between the Old and New Testament. Mhm. Um, and it also helps to have a, a mental map like Bethel was saying of what generally goes together. And this is fairly obvious, and I think a lot of people, uh, talk about it. So maybe we don’t need to belabor the point, but there are prophetic books, there are poetry books, there are history books, and there’s the Pentateuch and there’s New Testament. That’s a general classification. But we should know generally how how the different books relate to one another. Like among the Gospels, Matthew presents the Lord Jesus as the King. And I’m not saying anything that is particularly remarkable. I mean, we I think we all know this quote. 00:09:44 Bethel: And maybe instead of just looking up, oh, what does the Bible say about this? Fill in the blank. We could use Google as a resource to say, hey, how is the Bible split up? What is the Old Testament about? What are the parts of the Old Testament? What makes it different from the New Testament? What makes the Gospels different from each other? And you can use the internet as that type of resource to dig deeper in that way. 00:10:10 Patricia: Yeah. I think also if someone is a new believer, I mean, it’s, it might feel like kind of steep, right? Like, oh, before you start, you got to memorize all these things. I think while you’re doing it, I think I’m looking at the front of my Bible. There’s a table of contents, right? So if you’re a new Christian, or maybe it’s been a little while, if you if you need the pages with the numbers, right, start with it, like where each book of the Bible is. And what’s great is like most Bibles, like mine is organized, it tells you what’s in the Old Testament, what’s in the New Testament, and that can help you with organizing. Um, we’re looking at the Bible like how it’s, how it’s organized. And I think that’s a good place to begin. Um, I. 00:10:52 Peter: Think it’s high yield to Patricia. Like knowing the books of the Bible can be very helpful and knowing like the sections that, like Roy was saying, and I can argue also like some of them maybe can, they’re not inspired the chapters, but knowing how many chapters, like, you know, like, oh, you know, for example, Ephesians and Galatians are six chapters. Colossians and Philippians are four chapters. Um, so help you kind of. you know, contain or have a hold of of the book and how, how long it is. 00:11:29 Patricia: Yeah, that’s really good. And I think too, it’s, um, it’s good to think of how while we learned about what the book of the Bible’s are and how the Bible’s organized, that we can still start reading it. I think sometimes it can feel like levels like, oh, I can’t, I can’t do this until I do that. But it’s like, no, start reading while you’re memorizing where the books of the Bible are. So we talked about, I guess, operationally speaking, knowing how the Bible’s organized, but is there another way that we can begin that helps us when we’re just looking at the scripture alone and trying to find an answer? 00:12:08 Peter: We need help from Roy on this one. 00:12:14 Roy: Well, it’s been a long time since I was, uh, first, uh, I was pretty much know where everything is right now, and I hope this is going to be cut out of the. That’s the final deal. Um, well, again, I have to go back to the kind of question, I guess, because questions about the church, for example, if I have a question about that, I’m going to have to look in the New Testament. And I have to start with acts because that’s where the church began. And then Paul’s epistles in particular. So having a knowledge of where things are talked about and explained in Scripture is almost essential. Um, if you need comfort, let me give a couple of examples. We often look to the Psalms for comfort and encouragement, but in doing that, you need to realize that it’s a Jewish book. And so there are things in the Psalms which do not apply to us. Um, the Imprecatory Psalms in particular, which are Psalms which call down judgment upon our enemies. Well, if you’re new to the Bible, you might get confused by some of that. If you haven’t read and absorbed Romans, for example, toward the end where it says, vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. And if you haven’t really digested that. So I guess I’d have to say that we need to start looking through the New Testament to get a feel for the kinds of things that are particularly appropriate for the Christian. I’m thinking of a new believer now. Sometimes we say, okay, start reading John’s gospel. Well, that’s a good one. Um, if I say start reading Matthew, Then I may run across the kingdom of God, where servants are failed, and throw in thrown into outer darkness. And that kind of verses have led to the idea of we can lose our salvation if you don’t really understand what the kingdom of God is. So there is some basic knowledge that’s required. You know, if you keep reading, then you’ll get to John’s Gospel. And there you find out that if you’re in the hand of the Lord, no one can pluck you out. And so there’s the answer. But some of this can be confusing to a new person. So the only solution is, I think, to ask somebody that you can trust, give you a general feeling for what the different books talk about. And then you have to have your general knowledge to have scripture reading it through to, to come up with stuff. And I gotta say this right here too. There are several verses that emphasize that God is compassionate and he preserves the simple. And I think if actually, in my experience, the biggest hindrance is pride. So if we come to the Bible with the proper attitude that this is God’s word, then I think God can lead us. The Holy Spirit leads us to apply things in the right way. Um, striking verses in um, um, Psalm one hundred and sixteen six is perhaps just a good one. Um, and also in Proverbs there’s some. So God and God will guide us if we’re humble enough to learn from him. 00:16:15 Peter: Yeah. Just to add to what Roy was saying is when you’re studying the scripture, uh, it’s good to, uh, uh, look at the context of. 00:16:25 Roy: Right. 00:16:26 Peter: Uh, I think that’s what Roy’s saying also of the whole scripture and the book and the context of the chapter. What does it talk about? 00:16:36 Patricia: So then, okay, so we have the word of God, um, itself, and we have the Holy Spirit who will teach us and reveal things to us that we cannot learn just intellectually on our own. So when we’re Christians, we have that. We have him as a resource. But what about some other resources that we can use when searching for answers? I’m talking about things that other very mature Christians who have studied the Bible have put together. Um, and I’m thinking of a concordance. I’m thinking of biblical commentaries. Um, can we have some commentary on that? What type of resources can we use when searching for answers and how do we use them? 00:17:19 Roy: Concordance is really helpful. I use a concordance frequently. Usually there’s a concordance at the back of most Bibles that is tuned to the particular, um, um, uh, version that you’re using, uh, translation, but you can always do a cross-reference. You know, the standard concordance is ah, Strong’s and Young’s someone that says strongest for the weak and young is for the old. But be that as it may, um, they’re both both good, although they’re different. Um, um, and if you’re not using King James, both of those are based on King James. Maybe they’ve been upgraded, I don’t know, or changed. But anyway, you can always, um, if you have a particular verse in NIV, for example, look it up at the same verse, uh, in, uh, in the King James. Um, and figure out what verse, what word you want to look up and then go to the concordance with that. Now, I use Young’s a lot because it gives the Greek and Hebrew and, um, that can be helpful if you have a good, um, uh, uh, dictionary, uh, specific, you know, the, the, the old Testament, uh, dictionary I use is um, theological wordbook of the old Testament, which is good, good Hebrew, uh, analysis. I don’t know a word of Hebrew. So I just have to depend in that, uh, in Greek, uh, in Hebrew. 00:18:56 Speaker 7: Let me ask you, Roy. 00:18:57 Peter: Um, I, I don’t remember the last time I used the concordance. Bethel. Have you you. 00:19:05 Bethel: Really just just the one in the back of my Bible. 00:19:09 Peter: Uh, are we missing out a lot because we’re not using the concordance or when do you use it? Do you. When is the deep study verse by verse? 00:19:19 Patricia: Wait, so maybe I should define it and it will help to answer the question. Right? I’m thinking that the concordance is actually what the search bar is now in the Bible app. But all right, so the definition of concordance, it’s an alphabetical index of all the words in the Bible or any text. And it lists where each word appears. So it’s an alphabetical index of all the words in a text and lists where each word appears. 00:19:48 Roy: Now the problem is, and this is why I use Young’s analytical concordance, is that there are only about four thousand words in the Hebrew biblical Hebrew. Now, modern Hebrew is totally different, but we’re dealing with an Old Testament text. And if you think about the number of words that we have in the English language, It’s up in the. Millions and more are being added every year. So to have four thousand words in a language means that each word is going to have to do multiple jobs. And so context is really important. And you can get that information. You can look that information up, uh, in the, um, in the back of the Young’s concordance and figure out how the different words are being used in the context in which they’re being used. So you can kind of parse that out. So it is definitely for a deeper study of, of the words. But the basic idea is that it gives you a list of verses where the word is used. 00:20:56 Patricia: Mhm. 00:20:56 Roy: And so you can go and compare where the word is used or how the word is being used in these different verses. And in the back of Young’s Concordance, you also have a reverse cross reference so that you can look up the Hebrew word, for example, and see the different version, the different ways the translators have translated it. So you get a sense of how specific the word is and, um, and what the translators were thinking of when they translated it. You can sort of figure that out. So, um, those kinds of things have to do with puzzling verses that you run across and they just, why? What does that mean? And so if you’re trying to figure out what that means or what a particular verse means, then, uh, a concordance is really helpful. Okay. 00:22:00 Patricia: So on the most basic level, for example, if I have a question about world peace, does the Bible ever talk about world peace? I can look up the word peace in a physical concordance. And I know Strong’s is like big and blue. Maybe they updated it, but the one I grew up seeing was like baby blue. Um, and you could look up the word peace. And when you look it up, it’s got a list of every single place that the word peace is mentioned. And you have to go through each verse to decipher what the definition of peace, I guess you could say is being, or I should say like the part of speech is being used, right? Is it the peace that’s between that passes all understanding for Christians? Is it the peace between God and humans? Now, because of the Lord Jesus? Is it peace that God will establish in the future? So you have to really do some legwork to find out if what you’re looking for is the definition of the word that you found. I guess you would say, is that like how you start at the most basic level? 00:23:04 Roy: Yes. 00:23:05 Patricia: Okay. All right. But if you’re advanced, you’d be like, going towards more nuanced definitions of the word. Um, maybe if they’re in Greek or in Hebrew, there are different words for different types of peace, which I know, like for people who are bilingual, they understand that a lot better than I do. Like being monolingual. I only speak English, but I know there are multiple words. Say, for example, love. So you can’t just look up love. You can. But there’s so much variety in what you’ll find. So it takes effort, right? That’s what it sounds like. Effort. 00:23:42 Roy: Yeah, yeah. You have to do some study. Okay. Probably a real example would be, um, the word corruption in the New Testament. Okay. That has a certain, uh, mental image brought up. But the problem is that in Greek, which is what the base language that the New Testament was translated from, the Greek word uses the same word, same Greek word for two different kinds of corruption. Now we distinguish, for example, corruption from decay. Decay is what results from the law of physics. The entropy. You throw a pile of grass out in the in the backyard and after a while it decays. Um, on the other hand, um, immorality is also corruption. So this, this requires that you kind of look at the verse and try and figure out what is being meant by the word decay. But and some translators will translate them differently. Sometimes they won’t. Okay. 00:24:53 Patricia: So then I guess it’s good to just have a dictionary. Yes. Do I know what the words mean that I’m searching up? Right. That I think that would probably be useful. Like even in your own language, like, you know, the way we use certain words are not necessarily how they’re always used in other contexts? It would be good to have a dictionary as well. Okay. All right. So we got the concordance. So what about biblical commentaries? What are they? When should be the when should they be used and does the publication date matter? 00:25:27 Peter: I thought the use the commentary. 00:25:29 Bethel: Honestly, I’m big on commentaries. I am an enduring word person. Um, I don’t know how the saints feel about that, but I like it. Um, no, I just think it’s very helpful that like sometimes, honestly, I’ll sit and read a passage and I’m like, wow. Um, my reading comprehension is not with us today. I have no idea what I just read. And so sometimes enduring word does a good job of setting the scene of where are we in the chapter? What’s going on? Um, and it breaks it down like couple verses at a time. And then it’ll provide like texts of what certain authors have said about said portion. Um, so it’s very helpful to get a well-rounded picture. Of course, like anything else, we are trying to emphasize that using things as a resource is good. Using things as the source is not good. And so referring back to the Word of God and just kind of, you know, I think we said this, but to, to pray and ask the Lord for wisdom and help. Um, because that’s, that’s the main reason that we can understand any of this because of the help of the Holy Spirit and, um, to kind of be able to have a better understanding of the word of God, but using scriptures in itself to understand you look at a couple commentaries. I mean, like that’s, I really thought about like, how did I learn anything when I was applying for college? How did I learn how any of that process worked? I read a million articles and I read a million Reddit posts, and I read a million everything. And I gathered information on what is what are people saying? And so you can go about it like that, but ultimately approaching it prayerfully and using things, like we said, as a resource, not as the source. 00:27:16 Roy: Yes, that’s that’s a very important principle because no resource I haven’t I’ve been through lots of different translations, for example, and I don’t find any single one that’s perfect or that I, you know, isn’t without some complaint that I can come up with. Uh, and that’s doubly true of commentaries. We have to look at several. And it changes over the years. The commentaries that I looked at when I was, uh, twenty or thirty are quite different than the ones I look at today. But we have to look at different ones and think about what they’re saying in context. And we have to talk to different people to. MM. 00:27:58 Patricia: Oh, one thing I forgot to do was like, define what a commentary is. I know the word comment is in commentary, but there are some people who don’t use a commentary at all. Or maybe they’re nervous about it because it seems like, is it about the Bible? How am I supposed to know? So just by way of defining things, a biblical commentary is a written aid that provides explanations and sometimes interpretations of scriptures to help readers better understand a biblical text. So there are lots of different types. There are some that are about certain topics that are discussing certain topics. And then there are others that are, um, devotional, um, there are some that are historical, cultural. So Bethel, probably the one that you’re talking about. And I’ve seen some in some study Bibles where they give the context of the cultural Sauk, um, backdrop of a particular book of the Bible or a particular passage. And that’s really helpful to help to assist in how we can understand. But like I said, there’s lots of different types of commentaries that we. 00:29:06 Bethel: I think. 00:29:06 Patricia: It is. 00:29:06 Bethel: Helpful along the lines of what you’re saying. I took a class and it’s silly that I had to take a class about this in college to understand it. But always, always, always, no matter what you are looking up, know what the source is and knowing what the point of the source is like. For example, if I’m reading a commentary that is meant for daily encouragement, it’s always going to be not twisted, but the point pulled out of that portion will be to encourage me. And so maybe that’s not exactly what this portion is, or that’s not the point of this portion, or that’s not the context that this portion originally was in. So being able to read a resource and take a step back and put it back in the big picture, is this what the what the scripture is saying? Is this what our context is? Does this fit into what we’re understanding here? AM I getting this right? Always, always, always looking back at what is the source? 00:30:01 Roy: Yes, that’s extremely important. Um, if you pick up something from Legionnaire, for example, which is a reformed, uh, outlet, um, you’re going to have reformed theology woven in and some of what they said is going to be quite wrong. Uh, from my point of view, um, but a lot of it is going to be spot on. You know, I was once riding in a car. This really struck me because I was riding in, in the car listening to some religious program of some kind. It was just a general program. No, it was a Catholic priest, and it was one of the best explanations of a particular subject in Scripture that I had heard. I haven’t heard anything better since, but that was a Catholic priest, but it just happened to be a subject that was so universal that, uh, any denomination basically would, um, would agree to what he said. Uh, but it was, it was very sound and very well put. But if I’m going to listen to him about the remembrance meeting, as we call it, or can, um, confession or something like that, that’s not going to be reliable. So having the source, knowing the source is extremely important. 00:31:15 Patricia: What should people do if they, if the answer they are seeking, the support they’re seeking can be found in a commentary that was written a long time ago, but it just doesn’t make sense to you because we understand things a little bit differently now. What should they do? 00:31:33 Roy: That’s a really tough one. And the best advice that I can say is to talk to somebody about it. Um, an older person, uh, it’s really unfortunate. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s terrible because I, I see exactly what you’re, what you’re talking about. Um, some of these, some of these texts should be rewritten. Um, but who’s going to do that? We just don’t have the energy and the time anymore. Um, if you, if you really want to get into some of the best commentaries I remember, I tell you a funny story. I was in a Bible study at work for a while, and as a miscellaneous group of people there from all kinds of denominations. And, um, we were talking everything and I said, well, I don’t think anything useful has been written about the Bible in the last hundred years. 00:32:27 Patricia: Mhm. 00:32:29 Roy: Well, that was a good talking point. We got off on a real discussion about commentaries. Right. But the problem is it’s it’s almost true. And it’s sad. Um, if you really want to learn about these, then get a dictionary. Sit down and just work at it. MM. That’s all I can say. You know, it’s like if you want, if you want to be really good at something, If you want to be a great basketball player and always be able to sink that shot from beyond the third three shot line, three point line. That’s going to take concentration. It’s going to take work. It’s going to take effort. It’s going to take time. Yeah. So I’m I’m sorry. There’s just no other way. 00:33:18 Patricia: Yeah. No I don’t think you have to be sorry. I do think that there’s something there’s something in the effort that comes forth. And just on the literacy side, like I’ve always got two suggestions. Um, one is using technology and one is just reading out loud. So at times reading out loud, right, can help bring a certain clarity that the voice in your head may not be able to, um, and reading something repeatedly out loud in a conversational voice can be very helpful. Um, in terms of helping you to hear what the author is saying. My second suggestion is that particular sentences or passages you don’t understand, honestly, you can feed it into AI and ask AI, can you please change the level which is literacy? You could change the lexile level. That is what it’s called, or just the reading level of the passage. And you can put it down to like a ninth grade or tenth grade level. If you’re in nine states and it’s going to help you a lot. Just know that it may take away some of the original author’s voice and their particular writing style. Um, but that could be really helpful for you to get the gist of what they’re trying to say. But do be careful because those commentaries are commenting on the Bible, which is God’s Word and AI, and Google those resources. When they summarize, they can lose the original nuances of the words that the Lord intends. So always just know that the technology is not perfect either. Um, and it can also just be a way to just lose the true core meaning of a passage. So just be careful. Thank you, Peter Boy and Bethel for this important conversation about how to answer any question using the Bible. Of course, I’ll go back to the beginning. Knowing the books of the Bible and where they are is always a really great challenge to put upon yourself. Memorize them. We used to have competitions about this when we were younger. There’s some there are there are songs. Right? Exactly. But that’s a really good place to start. Um, I hope that our listeners know that Google is not our enemy. The internet is not our enemy. We love technology, but we should always question the root. The effect of getting quick answers. Um, when we seldom meditate on those answers. So let’s think about how we need to slow down, read, reread, and ponder God’s Word. It’s a challenge for me as well. And just know that we don’t need to learn everything all at once. Growth takes time as well. So we encourage you to keep reading, praying, and talking to the Lord about your questions. And then also, as has been mentioned so many times, talk to mature Christians who have navigated similar questions and they know their Bibles well. They can probably give you some really great supports as to how they have been helped too. For more on this topic, you can check out Patterns of Truth dot org and we will see you next time for another conversation about living this Christian life. 00:36:15 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Patterns of Truth podcast. We invite you to join us for our next episode. And we also encourage you to check out Patterns of truth dot org, where we post articles every week for the encouragement and growth of Christ followers. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to submit them on our website. I’m Peter. Until next time. The post Using God's Word to Answer Hard Questions appeared first on Patterns of Truth.

Mi történt valójában a választás előtt és után? Ebben az adásban végigvettük a kampány legfontosabb pillanatait, a Medián előrejelzéseit, a Tisza párt látványos felívelését és a Fidesz hibáit. Szó lesz a bécsi és budapesti eseményekről, a 141–52-es mandátumbecslés hátteréről, Magyar Péter jelenségről és politikai hatásáról, kampánybaklövésekről és kommunikációs stratégiákról, a Mi Hazánk és más pártok szerepéről, a választási rendszer igazságosságáról, az EU-s pénzekről, euró bevezetéséről és gazdasági kilátásokról, valamint arról, hogy valóban rendszerváltás küszöbén állunk-e. Új podcast arról, hogy merre tart Magyarország politikai és társadalmi jövője.#kampány #választás #TiszaFejezetek:00:00:00 Beköszönés 00:01:08 Április 12 Bécsben 00:06:00 Választás előtt: Tisza 2/3 meglesz? 00:08:33 Április 12 Budapesten 00:10:46 Medián: tökéletesen eltalálták 00:11:47 141 Tisza / 52 Fidesz / 6 MHM 00:13:30 Vásárosnamény 00:15:28 Nemzetiségi lista 00:18:08 Fidesz kampány baklövései 00:18:35 Gyermekvédelem 00:21:20 Nemzeti identitás kisajátítása 00:22:27 Centrális erőtér eldőlése – párhuzam / különbség a lengyel 2023-as választáshoz képest 00:24:09 Magyar Péter jelenség – Zugló, Dunaújváros 00:25:39 Előrejelzések 00:29:06 Győrben Orbán Viktor esete 00:29:50 Fidesz logika 00:31:33 2022-es választás utáni bizalomvesztés 00:32:59 A Tisza felívelése 00:35:00 Tóth Péter – kampányfőnök 00:37:00 MZP vs MP 00:47:33 Korábbi választási eredmények 00:48:11 Mi Hazánk 00:51:20 Tavaszi szél 00:53:05 36 év alatt a szélsőjobb és szélsőbal 00:53:58 Mi Hazánk vs Fidesz 00:59:37 Arányosabb választási rendszer 01:03:28 Fidesz mennyire fiatal 01:05:01 Választási törvény 01:07:27 Alkotmány 01:08:34 A köztársasági elnök 01:11:29 „Gránitszilárdságú” pozíciók 01:14:15 Vagyonvisszaszerzés 01:17:13 EU-s pénz & gazdaság, euró bevezetése 01:22:25 Oktatás és egészségügy 01:23:00 Euró szerepe 01:25:59 V4: a szomszéd országok szerepe 01:29:55 Atlanti kapcsolat – Orbán Anita 01:31:05 MKKP 01:33:47 MKKP & DK és a hazugságok 01:38:00 Az ebek ura 01:39:48 MKKP jövője 01:45:00 MKKP és a civil tevékenység 01:45:20 Tisza szavazók – merre tovább, új pártok? 01:49:20 Rendszerváltás? 01:52:00 Civil kurázsi 01:53:26 Elköszönés

Faith, Doubt, Leaving the Faith A few years ago, I followed a well-known Christian influencer whose faith journey was encouraging many, including me. But recently, he announced he was stepping away from Christianity, citing years of wrestling with doubts about the fundamentals of the faith. He said his doubt was too overwhelming to maintain his Christian life. Hearing this was both difficult and confusing. I don't know his heart or what God is doing in this man's life, but I pray for him and trust him to the Lord's care. His story made me pause and ask: Is he the only one? How many of us have quietly struggled with similar doubts? How much doubt can we carry before it becomes paralyzing or makes us question where we stand with God? Today, we'll ask: What does it mean to doubt as a believer? How does God respond to our questions? Is there space for some doubt that isn't disruptive? And, ultimately, how do we move forward—growing in confidence and resembling Him more, even when we're not sure we have all the answers? Our goal is NOT to spread doubts and “infect” others, so to speak. However, we can acknowledge them without giving them too much power. What type of doubts have you experienced? Doubting the existence of God Struggling with doubts during challenges in life (wondering if there's a point in all of this – seeing God's hand) I hope our listeners know that they are not the only ones who may struggle with similar questions and wonder: how much doubt should I be having? We encourage you to keep reading, praying, and talking with the Lord about your doubts. Then, speak with mature Christians who have navigated these challenges. Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode! UNEDITED TRANSCRIPTION: 00:00:00 Patricia: Welcome to another Patterns of Truth podcast. A few years ago, I followed a well-known Christian Christian influencer whose faith journey was encouraging many, including me. But recently he announced that he was stepping away from Christianity, citing years of wrestling with doubts about the fundamentals of the faith. He said his doubt was too overwhelming to maintain his Christian life. Hearing this was both difficult and confusing. I don’t know his heart or what God is doing in this man’s life, but I pray for him and I trust in the Lord’s care. But his story made me pause and ask, is he the only one? How many of us have quietly struggled with similar doubts? How much doubt can we carry before it becomes paralyzing or makes us question where we stand with God? I’m Patricia, your host for today’s Patterns of Truth podcast. And today we will ask the question, what does it mean to doubt as a believer? How does God respond to our questions and our doubts? And is there space for some doubt that isn’t disruptive? Ultimately, how do we move forward, growing in confidence and resembling the Lord even more, even when we do not have all the answers? Our goal for today’s podcast and conversation is not to spread doubt and infect others with disbelief, so to speak, but we want to acknowledge that we all experience doubt from time to time without giving that doubt too much power. So hey everyone, we have Peter, Roy, and Bethel. How are you guys doing today? 00:01:31 Bethel: Good. How’s it going? Oh. 00:01:34 Patricia: Good. All right. So I want to launch right into our first question. Um and it doesn’t matter who answers, but what type of doubts have you experienced in your Christian life? 00:01:51 Bethel: I think even in my limited amount of life, as I go through different seasons, different phases, there’s always some point that I’m kind of like, Is God who he says he is in terms of, is God as good as he says he is? Is God um, always with me as he says he is? Which I mean, an utmost respect. I don’t mean that in any irreverent way, but I think that that’s normal, that we all kind of go through a point where we’re like, um, God, really with me. Is God really carrying me? Is God really sticking with me? 00:02:26 Patricia: MM. Yeah. Anybody else? What type of doubts have you experienced? 00:02:32 Peter: Like many of us who are new believers, I, uh, at the beginning of my salvation, uh, did doubt being saved. I remember praying multiple times. Um, and every time there was a salvation message, I was always worried, oh, no, if there’s another message. Um, until I reached a point where I prayed, Lord, you know, I don’t know what’s going on. And, um, I remember that I saw a difference in my life. And, uh, that was a shooting to me that, you know, the Lord worked in my heart. People didn’t know. They didn’t see the difference. But I knew the difference. I know that I started, you know, desiring to read scripture more. Um, my attitude towards life changed. Um, when I was I mean, still like a young, maybe thirteen years old. So that’s one of the doubts, um, that I had. Um. 00:03:39 Patricia: Okay. Right. 00:03:42 Roy: I, um, no doubt it’s been a long time. Uh, I’m the old guy on the podcast and I, uh, I don’t remember having doubts like Peter described, but I’m almost certain that I must have, uh, they’re long gone out of my memory, in any case, but, uh, for sure, uh, doubts about, um, details of life. Should I go this road or that road? Uh, what does this scripture mean? Why does, uh, somebody who’s wiser than I am think it means something different than I? Different than I believe it. So those are the kind of doubts that I’ve had mostly. Okay. Uh, and there’s been specific incidences when I’ve had to do something that had no knowledge that it would be the right thing or the wrong thing, but a decision had to be made. And it turns out, uh, years later, it was obvious that, um, that that was the right thing to do. So I think that’s an interesting experience. And I have to say, I was encouraged by a book, uh, by Elsie Cole. And I don’t remember the title of it right at the moment. Um, I’m, this is off the top of my head right now, but she was a missionary to China for many years and expressed the same sort of experience. So I was encouraged by that. Uh, we, we have to sometimes go ahead in our practical life, uh, on faith, uh, believing God is good and that he’s going to make everything work out and not worry about whether I’m doing exactly the right thing or not. Uh, because he’s sovereign and he’s good. And I think those two principles really have to guide us. Yeah. 00:05:39 Patricia: So I want to back up a little bit. Can we define doubt? What is it? Because I think we’re talking about like how it’s functioned in our lives. But, um, what actually is doubt? 00:05:56 Peter: I mean, my simple thought process, uh, um, like in simplicity, I would think is what I believe in is true or not. 00:06:06 Patricia: Mhm. 00:06:07 Peter: Um, what I feel confident about what I put my faith in. Is that true? Or is that just, uh, you know, Another imaginary thing or something that I, I made up. 00:06:24 Patricia: Oh yeah. It’s like a competing idea in your mind. Like, maybe I’m wrong about this whole thing. Yeah. So then thinking along those lines, can we have a little clarity? Are doubts a sign of weak faith, or can they be part of a normal Christian journey? 00:06:49 Bethel: I think we have to doubt at some point everybody’s gonna doubt. I think what differs is maybe what you will have doubts about. But I think that it’s normal that if you care about anything, you are inquisitive about it and you want to see it and you want to experience it. And so to doubt something means that you’re, I believe, spending time in it and that you are invested in it. So I think the same for your faith. If you want to see God’s hand. And maybe sometimes you don’t see it in the way you want to see it. You might doubt if you want to be saved. And so you hear a gospel message and you doubt. Each time it’s because you want. You want to be saved. You want to be sure that you’ve done it right. So I think that that can definitely be normal. Oh. 00:07:38 Roy: Doubt can be the means by which we expand our understanding. Um, I think I, I’m struck by what the Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians thirteen, verse twelve, I think, where we see through a dim window and I think it’s part of our human experience. Um, our limitations. And thankfully that’s going to be done away. Uh, in the new, uh, the new era, the new creation. Um, when we fully realize, um, two things. Uh, I think that’s in the same passage actually. First Corinthians thirteen that, which is, uh, partial will be put away. So, um, doubt prompts us to investigate. It should now it can be debilitating. And that’s where it becomes bad and a real hindrance when we come maybe obsessed with our doubt, but that that actually is a result of not really believing God is good. Because if we really believe that he’s good. Um, and I think scripture from page one enforces that on us. Um, even if we go back to the Garden of Eden and I think so much depends on the Garden of Eden or as revealed there, what happened? Uh, our first parents failed miserably and it was catastrophic. The, the failure. It’s affected every human being that’s ever lived. And yet what has come out of that? Um. The Lord, speaking to his disciples in John twelve said, except the corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone, but if it die, it brings forth much fruit. Well, that is such a profound verse, and it explains why God allowed the fall and what he’s done about it. We could not really be inheritors with Christ if Christ had not come into this life to save us. As a man, he is now risen man and we’re going to be like him. All of that’s made possible by the fall. If you think about it. So here are the most catastrophic failure result in the most catastrophic injustice that the world has ever seen, which resulted in the most incredible blessing that eternity will require us to investigate. So when you think about that pattern, then the only way we can explain it, I think, is by realizing that God is good and that he nothing is going to get slipped through his fingers, as it were. So we can be complacent in our relationship with him. He’s going to take care of us. And that includes, like in Hebrews tells us about the discipline. You know, he will discipline us if need be, but what’s the result of that? It’s going to be so that we learn righteousness and we improve. And so when you when you realize that, then doubts cannot be debilitating. They have to be simply a doorway to understanding more about what God has for us. Well. 00:11:14 Patricia: I appreciate how you mentioned, um, our for parents because I think that, um, for anyone who’s struggling with doubt, maybe they think that they’re the only ones, but there are many doubters that are featured in the Bible with a variety of solutions. And so, um, you mentioned, um, Adam and Eve. So, uh, I’ll just go down the list, right. And we can talk about what each doubt was about and how the doubts were resolved, or if that individual was overwhelmed by doubt. So we’ve got Abraham, Sarah, Barak, Gideon, Jonah, and we’ve got Thomas in the New Testament. So I want to take a crack at it. What was the doubt about and how was it resolved? Anybody? 00:12:05 Roy: Eve doubted the goodness of God. If anything, that’s got to be the fundamental doubt. Oh, she was in a. Are they? I should say, you know, we pick on Eve. But they were both there. Adam and Eve. Um, Adam could have intervened, but he didn’t. Um but. They were surrounded by every possible evidence of the goodness of God. And there was one requirement and basically said Satan came to them and said, okay, this thing that God has kept from you, that’s evidence that he’s not really good. MM. That was really the bottom, I think the bottom line. Temptation. Mhm. And they, they fell for it. 00:12:59 Patricia: Yeah. 00:12:59 Roy: So it was the goodness of God manifested. And they were tricked into doubting God’s goodness. 00:13:09 Patricia: Especially the part of. Well, you will be as gods, right? So then there’s this idea of, oh, he’s withholding something from me. I can be elevated. What is this? Right. The doubt of God’s goodness, but also something about the self. There’s something right. Why can’t be greater than what I am. Why not? Right. Yeah. Well, that’s a really good one. So I guess, well, considering all your comments before like that doubt was not necessarily resolved because we are all where we are right now. Um, it wasn’t. 00:13:41 Bethel: But it had to happen. It had to happen for God’s goodness, God’s ultimate goodness and ultimate grace with us to be presented. So ultimately, and I think that that’s the, what we can learn about all of these examples in the Old Testament is that no matter what doubt they had, God’s will was what it was in the end, and God was who he said he was in the end. And so I think that that’s something beautiful. Like our next example was Abraham. And Abraham doubted God’s promise, and he tried to go about things in his way that he saw fit. But where did he end up? Yes, he made a big mistake with Hagar in Egypt as well with Sarah. But ultimately God’s will came to be what he promised. And, you know, we have Isaac and we have the this blessing. And so sometimes it’s a matter of, yes, we will make the mistakes that we will make. We will doubt even a New Testament example. The disciples were with the Lord in the boat, and they doubted. They feared they panicked. But ultimately, God is going to be who he says he’s going to be. He’s going to do his will. He’s going to carry us through whether we see it or we don’t. Oh. 00:14:56 Patricia: I love that. The question then it kind of goes right back to the same thing Roy was saying. The disciples in the boat, they said, Lord, do you not care that we are about to die? Right. 00:15:07 Speaker 6: And still he was right there with them. 00:15:09 Patricia: Right. The like, don’t you know? Right. Because for us, right. The biggest fear and threat is death, right? We all want to survive death no matter what. And it’s like, well, don’t you see? This is what’s the end is going to be. Um, but he does see. So so you got Sarah Barak Gideon, Jonah Thomas. What was the doubt about? How was it resolved? 00:15:39 Peter: Well, we’ll talk about Abraham and Sarah, right. That, uh, um, they Abraham doubted that God is going to fulfill his promise of having a child under. There was a consequences of that. Oh, there was another child instead of Isaac, Ishmael. And that caused heartache, you know, and, and his life and, you know, in the future too. Um, because he didn’t trust the Lord. And, you know, honestly, if we think about it, we would be in the same place. Uh, imagine being old and not having a child and still trying to trust that the Lord promise will be fulfilled. Uh, I. 00:16:28 Speaker 6: Would have left, too. 00:16:32 Peter: Yeah. 00:16:33 Patricia: And hers was like a very much about the boys. 00:16:35 Peter: Yeah. And he knows exactly what he’s doing, you know? 00:16:38 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:16:40 Patricia: Yeah. And her particular doubt. I’m trying to find it in Genesis was about the limitations of her body. Right in age. Right. And like, how can a dead womb bring forth like, what is this? Like, this is not possible. Right. I know how old I am, right? That’s what she was saying. Um. All right. Uh, Barrett. Gideon. Jonah. Thomas. 00:17:06 Bethel: Can I just add one more thing to the Abraham and Sarah conversation? The good, the beautiful thing is that we don’t just see it in Genesis, but we see it in Hebrews as well. Mhm. That’s that’s the point, I think, because it doesn’t. Go ahead, brother Roy and Galatians. 00:17:25 Roy: Galatians is a very important lesson. 00:17:28 Bethel: Yes. But that it wasn’t just. Yes. They doubted, yes, that that was what happened. But at the end of the day, God was faithful. God was faithful. And even though they doubted, they they still went about it and they still followed the will of the Lord. And in in Hebrews eleven, Sarah has described, uh, in verse eleven, actually, Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed. She bore a child when she was past the age because she judged him. Capital H judged God faithful who had promised. And so it’s that’s the end of their story. And that’s the beautiful part. 00:18:09 Patricia: Yeah, I love that part. She counted him faithful, who had promised. Right. And it wasn’t. He was faithful. Right. The conclusion. Yeah. Not like well, I, you know, I had some really good herbs and I just changed my diet. And then I figured it out. It was. He was faithful. 00:18:26 Bethel: He was faithful. 00:18:27 Patricia: And gave her the power to conceive. Yeah. Peter, I know you had Gideon before. Oh, sorry. 00:18:35 Bethel: Yeah. Give us. Give us some Gideon. Peter. 00:18:39 Peter: Uh, uh, uh, when we were just, uh, planning for the recording, just before we started recording, I. I told the group that how much I love the story of Gideon. 00:18:50 Patricia: Mhm. 00:18:51 Peter: Um, we know typically of the first doubt that he had, which is doubting himself if he’s able to go and fight for the Lord. The enemies and the Lord showed miracle. You know a couple miracles for him to reassure him, but he also doubted afterwards also. Oh, um, if he’s going to win. After they sifted the army to three hundred people, three hundred men, um, and he was not sure. And the Lord answered his doubt too. So, um, doubt will continue to happen. And if we take it to the Lord, um, um, a mighty man like Gideon had multiple doubts and the Lord used him and he can use us also. 00:19:47 Patricia: So kind of going off of that then, Peter, what’s the, what’s the biblical pattern for a dressing down. So we know doubters in the Bible existed, right? This is a human condition, right? We see it in ourselves. We see it there. So what’s the biblical pattern for addressing this type of doubt? 00:20:06 Peter: Well, I’ll start by saying we have to be honest to the Lord. Come to him with Lord, you know, and this is what’s going on. 00:20:18 Speaker 7: Oh, yeah. 00:20:20 Bethel: And isn’t that what he wants? Because I don’t think like we’ve already acknowledged doubt is not necessarily a bad thing. And so doesn’t he want us to come to him with our questions and with our curiosities and with our struggles? 00:20:31 Speaker 7: Mhm. 00:20:31 Bethel: That’s how that’s how I felt that as has shown up in my life. Like sometimes it will literally take me going through something to continuously tell myself. But I know God is good, but I know God will come through. But I know God is who he says he is until I believe it. 00:20:49 Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah. 00:20:50 Bethel: And I, I think we see that in Scripture that we’ve mentioned. 00:20:54 Patricia: It makes me think of the Scripture. Casting all your care upon him, for he cares for you. And sometimes we think of cares as which they can be like the issues of this life. Lord, I don’t know how I’m going to get through this financial problem or Lord, I’ve been praying for something for a long time. But what if someone’s care that constantly is on their heart is Lord, I’m just not sure about this. Fill in the blank, right? Whatever he’s asking someone to do or something to believe. Lord, that’s a care. It’s weighing you down, right? Roll off that care onto him like, Lord, I don’t know what it is. This unbelief is just overwhelming me. Help me. Right. I think that is a it is a care that can affect us, right? Big time depending on what is going on in life. Um, but yeah, so. Roy. Peter oh, sorry, Roy because Peter already answered a biblical pattern for addressing doubt. 00:21:53 Roy: Well, like Peter said, we we first of all have to be honest. And I like the story of the man who brought his paralytic. His paralytic son to, um. To the Lord. Uh, for, um, for help. Uh, he was a a demon, actually a demon possessed boy. Um, who, um, I suppose in modern language, it’d be like an epileptic fit, but, uh, it was demonic. Uh, it wasn’t just epilepsy, but he, um, appealed to the Lord. And, um, the Lord said, um. Um. Uh, Jesus said to him, yeah, I’m looking at the verse. He said to him, if thou couldst believe all things are possible to him that believes. And immediately the father of the young child, crying out, said with tears, I believe, help my unbelief. So, um. 00:23:12 Patricia: Or is that. 00:23:12 Speaker 7: Roy? 00:23:13 Roy: Uh, that’s uh, Mark nine twenty four, the verse I read. Okay. Um, and I think it’s important to realize that God, again, is a good God and he’s going to, um, not base his mercy on the weakness of our faith, but he’s going to take what it is. 00:23:36 Speaker 7: Uh. Huh. Yeah. 00:23:38 Roy: So, um, so the point is to come to the Lord with our difficulties and trust him to guide us. And he will. 00:23:49 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:23:51 Peter: But to what Roy is saying, we don’t base our future and our confidence on our feelings or our emotions, but on or the circumstances. But on truth and truth comes from Scripture. So regardless of how we feel or what we’re going through, we have to go back to the truth and scripture. 00:24:16 Speaker 7: Yeah. Mhm. That’s very good. Um, I know. 00:24:21 Patricia: That before. 00:24:22 Speaker 7: We were. 00:24:23 Patricia: We pressed record, we were talking about two Psalms, um, that have a really nice pattern of what we do when we’re struggling with, um, a doubt or a particular perspective. Um, and obviously these were written a long time ago, um, by Jewish people. So there are some things that are mentioned in both the Psalms that don’t necessarily apply to us here as Christians in twenty twenty five, but the principles are really good to examine. So I know that we mentioned Psalm forty two, which is titled, why are you cast down, O my soul? And Roy, you gave us Psalm seventy three, and Psalm seventy three is a Psalm of Asaph. So Psalm forty two is from the sons of the sons of Korah, and seventy three is a psalm of Asaph. So not from David, but really, really great principles throughout. And, um, we read, we read the two Psalms before we came on the recording, but I would just encourage our listeners to go ahead and read and read those Psalms, because they both follow a pattern of observing hard things right in, in life, looking at the wicked prospering or um, our soul is cast down. And every time the psalmist, these two psalmists go through their doubts, they remind themselves of the goodness of the Lord and how the Lord has delivered them and Israel over and over again. And so even in the face of our own faithlessness, the psalmist keeps coming back to hope in the Lord, hope in the Lord. And I think that this it really matches up with so much of what’s been said already. Um, and it’s really great to see that pattern in scripture that the Lord left this for us to say, this is what you can do when you’re struggling. 00:26:19 Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah. 00:26:24 Patricia: So what does honest prayer look like in seasons of doubt? You’re struggling. You’re overwhelmed. Roy, you mentioned like debilitating doubt where everything feels like you’re not sure. Right. And I imagine that’s really difficult. Right? You walk out the front door, it’s like something’s going to fall on me if my car got to break down. Like it’s so much anxiety. So what does that honest prayer look like when things get intense and it’s not that healthy curiosity, that questioning. 00:26:54 Roy: Well, we’ve talked a lot about the goodness of God, and I think that has to be really the underpinning. If if God is not good, then everything is hopeless. Um, that ends in nihilism. So, um, the goodness of God really is behind our prayers. So we may not see it. And that’s why the Psalm seventy three is so good, because the expressions there can reflect, um, a hopelessness really. 00:27:29 Speaker 7: Um. 00:27:30 Roy: But the conclusion there is when he says, I went into the sanctuary. 00:27:36 Speaker 7: MM. 00:27:36 Roy: So the key that’s, you know, our prayers. And so if we have a sense that God is there and he’s listening. 00:27:46 Speaker 7: Mhm. 00:27:47 Roy: Um, then that forms the basis of whatever appeal, uh, we can put. And I think there is going to be a response. 00:27:56 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:27:57 Patricia: Also, do you feel like that’s a change in perspective to like, sometimes we can become so preoccupied with our own thoughts and our own, I don’t know, our own ideas and doubts. And then we go to where the Lord is, right? We go to his house with his people and something. 00:28:14 Roy: That’s right. The whole first part of the Psalm is an external review. He’s just looking at others. 00:28:20 Speaker 7: Mhm. 00:28:21 Roy: And that’s never a good solution. We have to look to the Lord. 00:28:24 Speaker 7: Mhm. Yeah. 00:28:27 Patricia: So I guess it’s good. Like, if we’re struggling with something, we shouldn’t stay away. We shouldn’t stay away from meeting with other Christians because Lord might have something So precise not might he will have something so precise to say to us that will help us, that we would not get if we just stayed alone in our own minds. 00:28:48 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:28:49 Peter: Well, I say, I encourage I’ve done it once or twice before to write down your prayer on a piece of paper and, uh, um, read it. And while you’re reading it, you can write down underneath it what are the lies that you are believing in? Um, so maybe the lie is God doesn’t care for me or God is not present in my life. Um, or God is withholding something good from me. Um, and then underneath it, write the truth. Uh, from a verse in scripture. 00:29:29 Speaker 7: That’s really good. 00:29:30 Peter: And, uh, this can be a practical, easy way to. Or and you can go back to it, you know, when you’re struggling with the same data again. 00:29:39 Speaker 7: Mhm. 00:29:39 Peter: Read my prayer again. Mhm. That’s why I believe the lie is. And what’s the that’s the truth. And that can be an encouragement. 00:29:49 Speaker 7: That’s really good. 00:29:50 Patricia: I even sorry, Bethel. 00:29:53 Speaker 7: Go ahead. 00:29:53 Bethel: No. Even a step further. A lot of people journal. And so they’ll journal their prayers this way. And it helps even in a few months time, further down, when you’re dealing with a new season or you’re struggling with something else to look back and be able to say, wow, remember when I was struggling with that and the Lord got me through? Wow. Remember how I felt? And he really revealed himself to me. That’s that same God. He hasn’t changed. My circumstances have just risen again and I’m in a new lesson. But he’s still the same God. 00:30:22 Speaker 7: We tend to forget. 00:30:24 Roy: What you just what you just said might sound mechanical to some people, but that’s exactly what many of the Psalms are. their recounting of what God did in the past. 00:30:39 Speaker 7: Okay. 00:30:40 Patricia: That’s good to do it again. I remember I heard a suggestion one time from a preacher who said similar to what you said, Peter, but like when you write down your prayer, you write down next to it the date where you really started praying about it intensely. And when God answers, whether it’s a yes or no or a wait, you put the date next to it. So you see the bookend because our minds naturally go, oh, thanks God, that was great. We just move on up and don’t remember like, oh, like the Lord. Really? He, he solved that for me in a way that I couldn’t have done myself. Um, but yeah, I heard that as an encouragement one time. Now I’m like, I gotta go back and do that. Write down the date where it was answered, right? Because our minds will say, oh, like God hasn’t done anything for me. And that is a that’s a doubt. That’s a lie. Oh, like he hasn’t, but he has. Right. And if we keep a record of that, I really do believe it will help buoy us, um, over time. So, um, but I’d like to ask, is it possible for doubt to strengthen our faith over time? 00:31:51 Peter: Definitely. 00:31:53 Speaker 7: Okay. 00:31:56 Roy: I think in my, my experience, um, like I mentioned before, perhaps my most experiences doubting about what something means, uh, what Scripture means. And I think, um, doubt, as I said before, is really the doorway to understanding more about what the issue is. MM. Um, and I think often people that don’t doubt have shallow thoughts about what something means, um, scripture in particular Is amazingly profound. We don’t realize how profound it is, and very often. Um, even reading a slightly different translation, even reading a translation that’s not very good will sometimes prompt ideas about what a verse means that you would not have otherwise thought of. And of course, the, the, the problem might be that you’ll be led astray, but you have to deal with that. And the way you deal with it is keeping in mind another verse from Isaiah that’s very important. And that is little that we learn little by little here, a little there, a little, uh, line upon line, precept upon precept. So there’s no oh, and the other verse that’s really important is in Peter. Uh, no. Scripture is of its own isolated interpretation. I’m paraphrasing that which I think is misunderstood by some of the modern translations. Um, Darby has it right. These are important principles. We need to have a general knowledge of Scripture, because what one verse seems to say will be if we misinterpret a verse in one place, maybe put it this way, then that can be corrected by a verse in another place. So we have to have a general understanding, a general knowledge of Scripture. 00:34:01 Speaker 7: Oh, okay. 00:34:04 Patricia: So my last question is about, um, encouragement for people who are doubting right now, because I feel like, and I’ve experienced this in my own life, that when we experience doubts or someone close to us or near to us is doubting, we can recoil from that person. Um, if they express a doubt that is scary to us, Like, oh, well, that’s like a fundamental that you should just believe, right? Or we feel very uncomfortable or uncomfortable or unsettled by that doubt. Um, maybe it’s something that we doubt as well, but we don’t want to admit it. Like, how do we deal with other Christians who express doubts that make us uncomfortable? How do we encourage them and deal with that? 00:34:51 Roy: Can I start by talking a little bit more personal about this? Not with other people, but anything that comes up? Uh, a question maybe you hear a preacher on the internet or whatever, a faith in the in a Christian sense. And I think this is so important that we understand that faith is really not gullible. We don’t believe something when we don’t have evidence for it. Christian faith is evidence based. And when John was writing his gospel, he said, I think it’s in verse chapter twenty or so. He said, these things have I written? Okay. John was an eyewitness, and he had other people around him that had also witnessed the same thing. So he had to be accurate in what he said. And he wrote a lot of things that were pretty precise about what the Lord said. So we have to look at that and say, wow, this guy knew what he was talking about. He was a reliable witness. He had people that would have beat him around the head and shoulders if he had said something wrong. Right. You know, Peter would not let some John say something wrong. I think we can. We get we get that from Peter, at least. He was pretty outspoken. So John had to write what he had seen and heard in a pretty accurate way. We have a faith that is based on written records of what people saw. The Apostle Paul wrote about the resurrection in chapter fifteen of First Corinthians. And he could say, look, if you doubt what I’m telling you, go ask those five hundred people that are hanging around. Well, some of them have died, but go ask them. 00:36:51 Speaker 7: Huh? 00:36:51 Roy: They know what they’re talking about. They know what they heard and saw. And so we have solid evidence for what we believe. So doubts come up. What’s your evidence? Where’s your evidence? You know, somebody tells me something. Where’s your evidence? 00:37:12 Speaker 7: Mhm. 00:37:13 Roy: And another principle connected with this is that the first thing that we hear or the first thing that we see might not be the the correct. You know, there’s a proverb. It’s it’s phrased as if someone was telling you something. He. That is, if he that is first in his own cause seemeth just. But his neighbor comes and searches him out. That’s a actually a very fundamental principle. The first thing that I that comes into my mind when I’m reading Scripture might not be correct. I have to keep reading. I have to question it. I have to doubt it, as it were. That’s why I say doubting can be a pathway to deeper understanding. And that’s a principle that we need to realize. If you read something in scripture, come back and read it again next year or a month later, don’t just, you know, it’s something that we have to learn over time. We accumulate evidence that puts our doubts. a side. 00:38:24 Peter: I’d like to share a kind of different side of doubt. If you’re doubting, uh, because of doubting God’s goodness or doubting the Lord’s faithfulness through difficult circumstances, I’d encourage you to write down and memorize verses about perseverance and persevere. And I’d like to share one of them, which is James one twelve. Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial. For once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love him. And there’s multiple others. I have four verses that I keep just so I can. The Lord, you know, tells us to persevere and difficult circumstances and difficult times of doubt. 00:39:11 Speaker 7: That’s good. 00:39:12 Bethel: I don’t think there’s ever been a time that I doubted and didn’t come out Stronger in my faith after going through it with the Lord. And so for me, I just say, let it be a chance for him to prove himself to you. If I can say that so plainly. But let it be a time where God can come through for you again. And this is something you remember in the future. Like, oh, remember when I struggled with this? And then the Lord really came through this way and cling on to that. And like Peter and Roy have said, go back into scripture, find where he has done that for all of mankind. Because every one of those stories, the Lord is still faithful. The Lord is still good. The Lord is still with us. He’s overcome the doubt. He is who he is. And let this be a chance for him to prove that to you again. 00:39:59 Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah. 00:40:01 Patricia: I feel like that’s really, I feel like I think about why memorization is so important. Um, memorizing the word of God because there’s, we have so many thoughts. And when you do memorize scripture, the Holy Spirit will bring it to mind as a block, right? And because sometimes you don’t have time to sit down and write in your journal and go find that because something will come up while you’re driving in your mind or you’re working, you’re doing something right and it comes in your face. And what is the what is the defense against that? Right? I need to be ready. Like, obviously, like the Lord knows all. But when Satan came to him, he said, it is written and I need to be ready with my. It is written right to speak and say no. Like this is like, this is what the truth of Scripture is. So that’s my challenge to myself and to others. Like, I know it’s so easy to just scroll on your Bible app, right? Google it. But memorization is still the way to go. Um, yeah. So, well, thank you, Peter Roy and Bethel for this important conversation about doubt and living as a Christian. I hope that our listeners know that they are not the only ones who may struggle with similar questions. And we touched very, very lightly on people in the Scripture who struggle with doubt. And there were a variety of ways the Lord spoke to them and spoke to what they were struggling with. So I would encourage everyone, of course, I think the best place to start is in the positive. Go to Hebrews eleven, the Hall of Faith, right? Read about faith because we talked about Sarah and Abraham and their struggles. But you know, the conclusion of the matter is that through faith, right? Um, Sarah judged him people, he who, um, had promised and he gave her the strength to conceive. And so we see the end, right? And what the Lord does and how he gives us faith because we can’t get it from ourselves. So, um, we encourage you to keep reading the Bible. That’s the number one thing. Keep reading, keep praying. Talk to the Lord about your doubts. Don’t hide them from him. Tell him that you are struggling. Um, and then I would encourage you to talk to some mature Christians who have navigated these challenges so they can encourage you in ways that you probably have never thought of before. So for more about this topic, you can check out our various articles and Q and A’s at patternsof dot org. See you next time, everybody, for another conversation about how to live this Christian life. Bye. 00:42:33 Patricia: Thank you for listening to the Patterns of Truth podcast. We invite you to join us for our next episode. And we also encourage you to check out Patterns of truth dot org, where we post articles every week for the encouragement and growth of Christ followers. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to submit them on our website. I’m Peter. Until next time. The post Shadow of a Doubt: Can Your Faith Survive It? appeared first on Patterns of Truth.

Ooohh time-space continuum is on the fritz–it's a completely different day and yet…possibly the same day, who could say? They're wearing different clothes, so the evidence suggests either 1) a parallel universe is unfolding before us 2) we're caught in a time loop, or 3) that Lindy and MHM changed clothes between two back to back recordings to present YouTube viewers with a new visually stimulating experience.Here's what's so great about these fancy-pants studio recordings…the girls are spaced out and gabbing, and it's like they pulled up a chair for ya. It's nice!!! And it's all thanks to our devoted, mentally ill Patreon subscribers over at patreon.com/textmebackpod. You're sick and we hope you never get well.This week we talk about:-Reno

Catch Damion Patrick and Kayden on episode 71 of the Levels To It Podcast. We discuss the Air Force, questionable release of certain PDF files and more! #LevelsToItPodcastUSE CODE: "MHM.JUDE" https://n0treal.com/& shoutout Stimulated.. on topDamion https://www.instagram.com/soface/?hl=enPatrickhttps://www.instagram.com/patrick.ramone/Kaydenhttps://www.instagram.com/kadenjudie/

First mom Dani Joy joins me as we discuss spiritual trauma through the lens of adoption. We are reading and discussing the book Holy Hurt, by Hillary L McBride PhD. We hope the listeners will join us in this journey to understand and to navigate adoption related spiritual and religious trauma. https://medium.com/@danijoyhttps://hillarylmcbride.com/holy-hurt-book/https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355967?cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww&cjevent=acd48c2d0b8111f1804e00550a1eba24&cm_mmc=CJ-_-100357191-_-5250933-_-Evergreen+Link+for+Mayo+Clinic+Diet&utm_source=cj&utm_content=100357191&utm_capaign=3-monthshttps://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/txessentials/complex_ptsd_assessment.asphttps://www.nicabm.com/program/a1-brain-trauma-fb2/?del=bing.1718.ptsd&network=o&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=530620131&ad_group_id=1351302280065123&utm_term=traumatic%20stress&utm_content=&del=bing530620131&msclkid=bee2c579db9c177b015bacea48f39198https://www.mhanational.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/MHM-2025-Resource-List.pdfhttps://rainn.org/https://www.thetrevorproject.org/https://health.clevelandclinic.org/vagus-nerve-resethttps://health.clevelandclinic.org/box-breathing-benefitsThe opinions of the host and their guest are just that, our opinions. The host is not a therapist, a lawyer or an adoption professional.

Vi har besøk av Ine Eriksen Søreide, Høyres påtroppende leder. Hva og hvem skal Høyre være? Hva vil hun? Hvorfor vil hun bli leder, hvorfor dumpet hun Jan på en flyplass, og hva synes hun egentlig om slakteriet på Hommersåk? Mhm, alt skal fram!

Woof what a WEEK (spoken for the past 63 weeks in a row).But luckily your angels over at Text Me Back Podcast are here to break it up for you. No AI slop here–just hot juicy human junkyard waste ruminating at room temp for about six days. BUT FIRST: Are you seeing insane or unhinged things in the world, politically speaking? Do you have questions? Are you wondering if the things you're seeing are AI deepfakes or the actual horrors of modern life? Write in to Swamp Person! Email us at deartextmeback@gmail.com with SWAMP PERSON in the subject line, or slide into MHM's DMs instagram.com/importantmeagan. And don't forget to subscribe to Swamp Person here.And fyi, we chat about it briefly in this episode but DON'T TALK TO COPS. Stand with Minnesotans and for your own communities. There are a ton of good options on this list put together by Minnesotans for how you can help the people of Minneapolis and the Twin Cities, including: Donate money. Donate food, diapers, and other necessities. Donate blood. Volunteer. Contact your own reps. Boycott businesses and corporations supportive of ICE. Swampy enough for ya? GOOD.Because we HAVE to talk about AI doing something funny and frog related. We have to chat about Long Lost Family UK. We need to get to the REAL headline news of how bald men are treating each other on Reddit. And we really must remind you about the Antiques Roadshow. Please pipe up in the comments about: Should we let frogs be cops?Do you stan a bald man?What wholesome pro-grum is on your telly?Plus a mini-PSA: For all you anxious kittens out there–the BFF Party Phone (703) 829-0003 runs no risk of actual interpersonal interactions fyi! We welcome your voicemails to tell us anything you like! Tell us a ghost story, give us a mystery, tell us (in the words of Meagan Hatcher-Mays) whater yourzzzz?Last but not least, we finally talk about Heated Rivalry (but ONLY a little!). And do you have thoughts on Bugonia? This is what the discord is for over at patreon.com/textmebackpodNEVER LISTENED TO THE POD BEFORE? HERE IS YOUR STARTER KIT TO BEING BFFS WITH US!Meet Kevin in: Lindy and Meagan Need to Talk About KevinLearn why they keep saying BBW in Lindy and Meagan Are Officially BBWsDiscover the Kayak Dad Lore in: It's Our First Episode!WE NEED OUR ACCOLADES! It helps people find the show.⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (5 stars only please) on Spotify⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (5 stars only please) on Apple PodcastsGive us Rave Reviews and Accolades on Apple Podcasts! REAL LIFE EXAMPLE:I hate my job, I hate it more than anyone who has ever hated a job. It's truly, unbelievably, meaningless and if it disappeared tomorrow not a soul would know about it. I have been looking for another, don't you worry. These ladies get me through my work day in a way no one else can. Just when I think I cannot sit one more minute at my desk they say something so silly that I LAUGH and can persevere toward the end of my day. 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英语交流中，精准表达认同能快速拉近距离、避免对话冷场。今天卡卡老师分享四种程度的表示“赞同”的英文表达，快点学起来吧！初步赞同或不想打断对话时1. Mhm. / Uh-huh.嗯。/ 嗯嗯。2. I see.我明白。3. That makes sense.有道理。4. Please, go on.请继续。中度明确赞同（明确表示同意，常用于日常和工作讨论）5. I agree.我同意。6. You're right.你说得对。7. That's true. / Indeed.确实如此。8. That's a good point.这观点不错。9. I feel the same way.我也有同感。10. That's exactly what I was thinking.这正是我想说的。11. We're on the same page.我们看法一致。直接 / 强烈赞同（表达热情、坚决的支持，用于共鸣强烈时）12. I completely agree!完全同意！13. One hundred percent!百分之百赞同！14. Without a doubt.毋庸置疑。15. You've hit the nail on the head.你说到点子上了。16. That's absolutely right.这绝对正确。17. My thoughts exactly.我的想法和你一模一样。日常生活 / 朋友交谈18. Tell me about it! I feel the same!太对了，我也是这么觉得的！19. You read my mind!你懂我！20. Great minds think alike.英雄所见略同。21. Yeah, that's how it is.没错，事情就是这样的。更多卡卡老师分享公众号：卡卡课堂 卡卡老师微信：kakayingyu002送你一份卡卡老师学习大礼包，帮助你在英文学习路上少走弯路

[00:00:00] George Buhnici: Invitatul nostru în această seară este profesorul nostru preferat, domnul Dumitru Borțun. [00:00:05] Bine ați revenit, domnul profesor! Mulțumesc! Avem o teme fierbință la ordinea zile și una [00:00:10] dintre cele mai importante. Voi începe cu breaking news-ul săptămânii acestea. [00:00:15] asasinarea în public a unei dintre cei mai importanti să le spunem [00:00:20] așa, exponenței republicanilor MAGA din Statele [00:00:25] Unite Un tânăr de 31 de ani, Charlie Kirk, împușcat de un [00:00:30] aparent radicalizat care credea el că Charlie Kirk [00:00:35] împrăștie ură.[00:00:36] Dumitru Bortun: Da, dar se pare că ăsta e mai fascist decât [00:00:40] Kirk. Sunt doi radicali care au un discurs alurii [00:00:45] și unul și altul. [00:00:47] George Buhnici: Ok. Sunt doar câteva zile de la [00:00:50] moartea lui Charlie Kirk. Noi suntem la un pic de distanță, destul de safe. Acolo spiritele sunt atât de fierbinți [00:00:55] încât... Guvernatorul statului iutaiei le-a recomandat oamenilor să plece de pe social media pentru că era furia [00:01:00] prea mare.Trăim într-o economie a furiei. Însă deci de la distanță din [00:01:05] experiența noastră, când vă uitați și la Charlie Kirk și la asasinul lui, [00:01:10] nu vedeți o victimă și un agresor? [00:01:13] Dumitru Bortun: Ba da. Și [00:01:15] regret că un om tânăr și doar un [00:01:20] influencer, nu un om care apasă pe butoane, care ia decizii politice [00:01:25] Este omorât. Lasă în urma lui [00:01:30] doi copii fără tată, lasă o soție tânără, [00:01:35] neconsolată deci lucrurile astea sunt oribile.Dar [00:01:40] vreau să vă spun că asistăm la [00:01:45] simptomul unei rupturi foarte puternice în societatea americană. [00:01:50] Pentru că un astfel de eveniment nu polarizează o societate în halul ăsta, [00:01:55] dacă societatea respectivă nu este deja polarizată, dacă nu e [00:02:00] ruptă în două părți, cel puțin. Deci ruptura [00:02:05] preexista. [00:02:06] George Buhnici: Ok, vedem deja această ruptură care este [00:02:10] amplificată de toate părțile implicate de an de zile în Statele Unite, nu e nouă.Am văzut o [00:02:15] mâncă dinaintea lui Obama, apoi s-a transferat primar Am Trump [00:02:20] și a lui Biden și acum am ajuns la punctul la care vedem tentative de asasinat tot mai [00:02:25] des. Am văzut și cea împotriva lui Donald Trump, am văzut atentate teroriste, au fost denumite [00:02:30] încindierile showroom-urilor Tesla, tot pe motive politice.În momentul [00:02:35] acesta vedem această ruptură care ajunge în faza pe gloanțe, ca să zicem așa. [00:02:40] Faza pe, cum zic cei din zona militară, faza kinetică. [00:02:44] Dumitru Bortun: [00:02:45] Da, da. Este întâi faza violenței simptomale Simbolice, [00:02:50] când ne vorbim urât și ne jurăm, urmează faza violenței [00:02:55] fizice. După aceea urmează faza [00:03:00] gloanțelor, cum bine ați spus, și, Doamne ferește [00:03:05] următoarea este faza războiului civil.Deci genul [00:03:10] ăsta de conflict este amplificat din păcate de noile [00:03:15] mijloace de comunicare în masă, așa zisele new [00:03:20] media, tot ce ține de internet, de rețele sociale, de bloguri, de [00:03:25] vloguri și așa mai departe. Podcast-uri. [00:03:28] George Buhnici: Charlie Kirk [00:03:30] este un om născut din acest val de social media. Este unul dintre oamenii care a [00:03:35] folosit excepțional de bine algoritmul, avea [00:03:40] propriului podcast și a creat un ONG și a creat această faimă de om care [00:03:45] poate să dezbată cu oricine, mai ales în public, să zicea în universități și transforma chestia asta.[00:03:50]Un pe care îl publica peste tot. A devenit extrem de influent și a atras [00:03:55] destul de mulți oameni care au ajuns să-l susțină pe Donald Trump [00:04:00][00:04:00] Dumitru Bortun: prin aceste [00:04:01] George Buhnici: activări ale lui. [00:04:02] Dumitru Bortun: Sunt de acord că era foarte talentat [00:04:05] și că avea un talent deosebit de a mobiliza, avea o [00:04:10] anumită carismă de la modul în care arăta, la modul în care [00:04:15] vorbea, punea problema.Dar vreau să vă spun că, așa [00:04:20] zisele... Dezbatere ale lui nu erau chiar [00:04:25] dezbateri Vedeți că există pe internet, spun pentru cei care ne [00:04:30] urmăresc, dumneavoastră știți, pentru că le-am primit chiar de la dumneavoastră, sunt [00:04:35] două filme cu un cadru didactic un lecturer de la [00:04:40] Universitatea Cambridge, care face analiză pe text, [00:04:45] face analiză de discurs.[00:04:47] George Buhnici: Și vorbim despre niște dezbateri [00:04:50] pe care Charlie Kirk le-a făcut în Europa, a fost la Cambridge, la [00:04:55] Oxford și s-au zis acolo încercând să convingă universitățile britanice [00:05:00] să se lepede de ochism. [00:05:03] Dumitru Bortun: Să se [00:05:05] lepede de tot ce înseamnă stânga. Ochismul este doar pretextul. Așa. Vor să [00:05:10] scoată universitățile de sub influența mișcărilor [00:05:15] de stânga.Cele care vorbesc despre o societate deschisă despre emanciparea [00:05:20] oamenilor despre libertatea de alegere, despre [00:05:25] progres și care [00:05:30] sunt teme nesuferite celor de dreapta din Statele Unite. [00:05:35] Și am început cu aceste mari universități legendare [00:05:40] universități din Europa. Eu vreau să vă spun că acest film, care este [00:05:45] un...Studiu este un film didactic foarte reușit. Eu mi-am și [00:05:50] scos pe hârtie după ce mi-ați trimis... [00:05:55] Filmul, mi-am scos grășelile, pentru că și eu [00:06:00] predau gândire critică. Fallacies, nu? Fallacies. Erori de gândire [00:06:05] din perspectiva teoriei critical thinking. Și sunt de [00:06:10] pildă moving the goalpost, adică a schimba regulile [00:06:15] sau chiar subiectul sau criteriile după care discuți [00:06:20] și analizezi o problemă în timpul discuției.Sau burden of [00:06:25] prof, datoria de a dovedi ceva, o presiune de a dori ceva [00:06:30] pe care o pui în celuilalt. Sau post hoc, ergo [00:06:35] procter hoc. Post hoc înseamnă în latină după aceea, procter hoc, [00:06:40] din cauza aceea. Acest sofism, că dacă ceva urmează după [00:06:45] altceva, înseamnă că este efectul acelui fenomen. Doar pentru că e [00:06:50] după el.Nu e neapărat o relație. cauzală. El practică această [00:06:55] eroare de argumentare. Formă personal incredibility, [00:07:00] incredality, adică neîncrederea personală. Eu nu cred în ce spui. Tu nu poți [00:07:05] să credi așa ceva. [00:07:05] George Buhnici: Într-o dezbatere științifică chestia asta e inacceptabilă [00:07:08] Dumitru Bortun: E inacceptabilă. Nu mă interesează [00:07:10] că tu nu poți să crezi.E problemă subiectivă. Poate te-a bătut taică tu când erai mic. Poate [00:07:15] ai avut un unchi care era șeptic. Nu știu care e istoria ta [00:07:20] personală. De ce nu crezi treaba asta? Deci... Pe urmă [00:07:25] red herring, cherry picking, sunt mai multe [00:07:28] George Buhnici: [00:07:30] tehnici [00:07:31] Dumitru Bortun: tacticile, numește ele giz galop, [00:07:35] argument from tradition, pentru că s-a mai întâmplat, [00:07:40] înseamnă că e adevărat.Pentru că, așa, [00:07:45] argumentele circulare, de genul avortul e greșit fiindcă este o [00:07:50] crimă iar crimă este greșită. Deci te învârți în același, fără să [00:07:55] demonstrezi de ce este o crimă. Ai sărit peste etapa asta. [00:08:00] Cel care te ascultă aude doar faptul că crimă e [00:08:05] greșită ceea ce e corect, și tragi concluzia că și avortul e greșit.[00:08:10] Fără să... Argumentezi implicația de la mijloc. [00:08:15] Corect Este o crimă. Deflection. Deflection [00:08:20] înseamnă abatere, abatere la subiect. Mă abat de la subiect pentru că simt că tu [00:08:25] îl argumentezi mai bine și că eu nu mai am argumente. Corect Și atunci [00:08:30] schimbă subiectul, mă abat de la... Și în sfârșit special [00:08:35] plating, când decretăm că ceva este o excepție fără să [00:08:40] argumentăm.Bine ce special plating Spui tu, e o excepție În general, lucrurile astea au cum zic eu, fără [00:08:45] să... Toate lucrurile astea au fost depistate de [00:08:50] acest profesor de la Cambridge. Și puse pe film și a arătat fragment [00:08:55] din discuție între Kirk și un student [00:09:00] de la Universitatea în Cambridge, unde arăta cum a făcut această [00:09:05] greșeală.Deci una dintre erorile de [00:09:10] argumentare este că tu nu dovedești adevărul a ceea ce [00:09:15] spui dar aștepți ca celălalt să contrazică, spune, [00:09:20] dovedește-mi că n-am treptate. Nu e datoria lui să dovească că n treptate, e datoria ta să [00:09:25] dovedești că ai treptate. Deci dialogul ăsta era mai mult, cum să vă spun, un show, [00:09:30] un spectacol, din care probabil câștiga și bani, dar era finanțat [00:09:34] George Buhnici: [00:09:35] de mulți miliardari Charlie Kirk și nu doar el, prin acel ONG Turning Point [00:09:40] USA.Pentru cei care vor un pic mai mult context, nu știu câtă răbdare aveți să urmăriți toată [00:09:45] scena asta americana, eu o fac destul de îndeaproape, Charlie Kirk, [00:09:50] într-adevăr folosea exact toate texturile tehnicele pe care le-a spus și ceva în plus, dar reușise să fie atrăgător pentru [00:09:55] social media, pentru că livra soundbites, livra TikTok-uri, livra chestii condensate [00:10:00] într-un minut, în care te convingea că creștinismul este bun, iar islamul este [00:10:05] greșit, că albii sunt mai buni că negrii sunt răi, că omosexualitatea este sau nu [00:10:10] acceptabilă, căsătoria într-un fel Și în momentul în care era pus în fața unei dezbateri cu [00:10:15] oameni cu pregătire, cu educație, argumentele lui de foarte multe ori cedau.Asta s-a [00:10:20] întâmplat inclusiv în anumite universități Însă de cele mai multe ori Reușea să facă chestia asta cu [00:10:25] studenți În scena publică De pe o poziție în asta Nu știu câți dintre voi ați urmărit să tea [00:10:30] într-un cort Cu oameni în fața lui Ca și cum ar propovădui ceva Știți că e [00:10:35] interesantă chestia asta Că toți avem într-un fel sau altul până la un punct Acest cult al lui Iisus Că vrem să ne [00:10:40] împărtășim adevărul nostru Iar cei care interacționea el De foarte multe ori erau puși pe piciorul din [00:10:45] spate Pentru că el era un comunicator Excepțional de bun Ce [00:10:48] Dumitru Bortun: povestiți dumneavoastră [00:10:50] se numește în teoria discursului Miza scenă Punere în scenă [00:10:55] Sau încadrare unui discurs El asta făcea făcea frameworking [00:10:59] George Buhnici: Cu [00:10:59] Dumitru Bortun: [00:11:00] cortul ăla [00:11:01] George Buhnici: Exact, și el din cortul ăla Sătea de vorbă interacțiunea cu oameni pe [00:11:05] care îi bombarda Cu toate argumentele Pe care le-a spus puțin mai devreme Pentru oameni cu [00:11:10] pregătire filozofică Semiotică, comunicare, toate lucrurile astea Erau transparente [00:11:15] vedeau Prin ele, mai ales că făcea de foarte mult Tot ce a spus dumneavoastră Într-o dezbatere foarte [00:11:20] articulată cu acel student De la Cambridge, tot muta ținta Pentru că una dintre [00:11:25] temele De dezbatere de acolo, foarte scurt Ca să vă dau un rezumat o să vă dau link-urile Pentru aceste [00:11:30] analize Să le dați [00:11:31] Dumitru Bortun: neapărat, că sunt instructive Pentru că și [00:11:35] ascultătorii Noșterii trebuie să învețe Să se ferească de [00:11:40] Oratorii păcălici Care păcălesc auditorii [00:11:43] George Buhnici: Corect [00:11:45] Vă dau un exemplu foarte simplu Unul dintre argumentele lui Charlie Kirk este că [00:11:50] Creștinismul a susținut întotdeauna monogamia și asta este căsătorie într-un bărbat și o [00:11:55] femeie.Și că asta este bună pentru că nici o civilizație avansată [00:12:00] nu a avut căsătorie între persoane de același sex. [00:12:05] Și este contrazis. Și atunci nu insistă, nu doar să fie acceptată, să fie în lege, să fie legiferată. Și [00:12:10] studentul vine și spune, a fost legiferată în Mesopotamia. În Mesopotamia putea să ai [00:12:15] căsătorie între un bărbat și un bărbat.[00:12:17] Dumitru Bortun: Legar. O mare civilizație. [00:12:18] George Buhnici: O mare civilizație. Și îl [00:12:20] spune, da, da și la ce i-a ajutat chestia asta? Din nou tot muta ținta. Și zice, păi, a rezistat niște mii ani. Măi, la [00:12:25] civilizație americană nu are încă mii de Dar aminte, mii de ani de civilizație. [00:12:30] Acum, nu trebuie să fim de acord sau nu cu ce au făcut cei din Mesopotamia.Mesopotamia nu mai e [00:12:35] astăzi. Problema este cum [00:12:37] Dumitru Bortun: argumentăm. Exact. [00:12:39] George Buhnici: Bun. [00:12:40] Am vorbit așadar despre care este semnificația acestui asasinat. Nu vom lămuri încă, dar mie [00:12:45] mi-este clar că ce va urma, vor fi mai puține astfel de dezbatări în public. Exista totuși [00:12:50] valoare în ceea ce văd eu că făcea Charlie Kirk, faptul că pornea o conversație și cu oameni care [00:12:55] Nu îl simpatizau, nu erau de acord cu el și care chiar puteau să îl [00:13:00] dezbată.Nu aveau forța lui de expunere, dar puteam să vedem, cei care am urmărit [00:13:05] suficient de mult, că dincolo de prove me wrong a lui Charlie Kirk, da, [00:13:10] erau momente când era wrong. Dar foarte mulți politicieni se feresc de dezbatări. Și asta este [00:13:15] meritul lui, faptul că au umplut un gol. Bun. [00:13:20] Și acum, întrebarea, că noi avem o listă de teme aici prin care trebuie să trecem, nu avem foarte mult [00:13:25] timp la dispoziție, de aia o să ne vedeți că poate că ne grăbim un pic, dar încercăm, nu știu cât puteți să stați, [00:13:30] e seara, e duminică vă mulțumim că ați venit.Întrebarea care vine acum [00:13:35] este, totuși când devine acest free speech, acest absolutism al [00:13:40] libertății [00:13:41] Dumitru Bortun: de expresie, [00:13:41] George Buhnici: că putem să spunem orice, [00:13:45] unde se oprește această unde punem o limită pentru această exprimare, pentru [00:13:50] orice, ca să nu ajungem în astfel de situații în care unul din tabăra cealaltă să spună trebuie să te [00:13:55] opresc cu orice preț, pentru că împrăștii ură, între ghilemele.[00:13:58] Dumitru Bortun: Să fie clar aici sunt [00:14:00] două extreme, domnul Bucnici Primul lucru pe care îl vreau să-l spun este [00:14:05] că nu e cazul să apelăm la așa zisul bun simț, că aud foarte des [00:14:10] lucrurile astea la comentatori superficiali pe postul de [00:14:15] televiziune pe rețele sociale. Bunul simț este un ghid foarte bun, [00:14:20] pentru că bunul simț e definit cultural.El difere de la o [00:14:25] cultură la altă cultură, de la o subcultură la altă subcultură deci e [00:14:30] circumscris unei culturi sau subculturi. Deci bunul simț nu este universal. [00:14:35] Deci nu rezolvă. La nivelul unei societăți imense, cum e societatea nord-americană, [00:14:40] n-ai cum să apelezi la bunul simț ca... La un criteriu [00:14:45] universal valabil pentru a te opri unde trebuie cu libertatea de expresie.Și [00:14:50] atunci vă spun două lucruri. Sunt două extreme aici. Pe de o parte, [00:14:55] libertatea de expresie dusă la paroxism poate să ducă la [00:15:00] [00:15:05] violență. [00:15:10] Deci odată este violența asta [00:15:15] verbală, violență [00:15:20] simbolică, violență psihologică prin priviri, până la [00:15:25] violența gloanțelor, cum spuneați, și până la, Doamne ferește un război [00:15:30] civil.Deci violența poate să ducă pentru că eu îmi exprim [00:15:35] gândurile mele fără să am nicio oprelișe, pentru că mă prevalez [00:15:40] amendamentului al Constituției Americanei, libertatea de expresie. [00:15:45] Ori, libertatea de expresie poate să ducă la faptul că îi jignesc pe seminii mei, că [00:15:50] le dau motive să-mi furie, le dau motive să se răzbune, [00:15:55] să-mi replice și așa mai departe.Pentru asta s-a inventat [00:16:00] ceea ce se numește corectitudine politică. Dar corectitudinea politică [00:16:05] ea limitează la extrema cealaltă pentru că mai e o problemă aici [00:16:10] De atâta corectivine politică ajungi să [00:16:15] sufoci să restrângi reptul la liberă exprimare. [00:16:17] George Buhnici: Exact. [00:16:18] Dumitru Bortun: Se [00:16:18] George Buhnici: ridică pendulul [00:16:20] în extrema cealaltă. În cealaltă [00:16:21] Dumitru Bortun: extremă.Deci nici corectivinea politică nu este [00:16:25] absolut, un criteriu absolut, pentru că asta [00:16:30] acumulează frustrări, acumulează... [00:16:33] George Buhnici: Haideți să dăm două exemple, [00:16:35] dacă vreți. Una dintre chestiile, pe care Charlie Karrick le spunea, este că [00:16:40] tinerii de culoare au mai multe probleme pentru că nu [00:16:45] trăiesc cu un tată în casă pe parcursul [00:16:50] copilăriei lor.E o chestie culturală în familiile de culoare din Statele Unite. [00:16:55] Undeva la trei din patru tați, bărbați, pleacă de acasă. [00:17:00] Și îl zicea că ăsta este un motiv pentru [00:17:05] violența lor, pentru lipsa lor... Delinvență. Delinvență. Copilăria [00:17:08] Dumitru Bortun: în stradă [00:17:09] George Buhnici: [00:17:10] Intră chestia asta la libertate de exprimare? [00:17:13] Dumitru Bortun: Intră, dar când [00:17:15] îți dai seama că jignești și pui pe jar o mare [00:17:20] categorie umană, poți să te abții și să spui așa, [00:17:25] există familii americane în care tații lipsesc, nu își îndeplinești [00:17:30] rolul și nu oferă un pattern cultural, un model cultural de [00:17:35] comportament băieților.De aici ies tinerii responsabili, [00:17:40] bărbați care nu pot întemeia o familie și care nu se vor putea purta cum trebuie cu [00:17:45] soțiile și cu copiilor. De ce? Fiindcă n-au un model anterior. Dar nu spui neapărat că-s [00:17:50] negri. Pentru că s-ar putea ca majoritatea să fie într-adevăr din [00:17:55] populația de culoare pentru că se explică [00:18:00] culturalicește.Din cultura lor există [00:18:05] treaba asta, că bărbatul poate să plece când vrea. Dar nu spui. [00:18:10] Pentru că asta se numește responsabilitate. Domnul Bun, și nu este vorba nici de a încălca... Chiar dacă [00:18:15] e [00:18:15] George Buhnici: adevărat statistic? [00:18:17] Dumitru Bortun: Dacă e adevărat statistic, [00:18:20] adevărul nu e niciodată un scop în sine. Un scop în sine e binele. Eu [00:18:25] pot să imaginez o politică adevărului spus în așa fel, într-un [00:18:30] anumit fel, într-un anumit...În un moment, unor anumiți oameni ca să facem bine nu ca să [00:18:35] facem rău. Pentru că ipocrizia aia să știți că am fost sincer. Nu mă ajută cu nimic. [00:18:40] Cu sinceritatea ta ai distrus o familie. Ai înăgrit [00:18:45] imaginea unui părinte fața copilului său. Ai distrus prestigiul unui profesor în [00:18:50] fața elevului. Poți să faci foarte mult rău fiind sincer.Ai spus adevărul [00:18:55] Sau ai spus ce credeai tu că trebuie spus. De acord. Trebuie să ne înfrânăm singuri. [00:19:00] Asta se numește responsabilitate. Adică să fii conștient de consecințele [00:19:05] faptelor tale. Și când zic fapte, zic și acte de comunicare. [00:19:09] George Buhnici: Asta este cea [00:19:10] importantă lecție pe care mi-ați dat-o și mie în vara lui 2022.Da. Că până la urmă cuvintele [00:19:15] contează. [00:19:15] Dumitru Bortun: Da. [00:19:16] George Buhnici: Pe de altă parte însă, comportamentul și afirmația lui Charlie [00:19:20] Kirk, din nou vin după ce pendulul s-a ridicat prea mult în partea cealaltă și am ajuns în situația în care [00:19:25] putem să permitem unor bărbați să se declare femei. Deși, [00:19:30] biologic, sunt masculi. Doar pentru că au decis [00:19:35] dintr-o dată că vor să se declare femei, că vor să umble pe unde sunt femeile și [00:19:40] nimeni nu se opune la această chestie Ca nu-i [00:19:42] Dumitru Bortun: jignească.[00:19:42] George Buhnici: Ca să nu-i jignească. Acea [00:19:45] corectitudine politică de care vorbiți noastră a dus-o la extrema cealaltă. Sunteți de acord că este și asta o extremă? [00:19:49] Dumitru Bortun: Da. [00:19:50] Și sunt de acord că în istorie sunt... Sunt mii de cazuri de idei [00:19:55] bune care au căput pe mâna unor ticăloși și care s-au transformat în [00:20:00] lucruri oribile. Idei bune.Care se degradează în mâna unor oameni [00:20:05] Care nu sunt la înălțimea ideii. A construi o societate [00:20:10] bazată pe reguli de comportament civilizat. Corectiunea asta politică ar trebui tradusă [00:20:15] corect în românește corectiune socială. Fiindcă la ei politic are mai multe sensuri [00:20:20] Aici e sensul de la polis. De la societate De la societate [00:20:25] Deci corecțiune socială să fim corecți unii cu alții, să nu ne umilim, să [00:20:30] nu facem bullying.Ce mi se pare [00:20:32] George Buhnici: mie grav este că de foarte multe ori oamenii care [00:20:35] ajung să facă rău altora, o fac în numele [00:20:40] altor oameni sau altor ființe mai nou care nu sunt de față. [00:20:45] Nu ați observat lucrul ăsta? Da, da da. E interesant. Ne punem noi ca [00:20:50] apărători ai... Ne erijăm în... Protectorii unei categorii defavorizate. [00:20:55] Da atacăm individul, îl luăm individual din mulțime, deci îl [00:21:00] discriminăm pentru că ar face rău unor [00:21:05] clase care nu sunt prezente.[00:21:06] Dumitru Bortun: Dar eu aș vrea să termin ideea pentru că n-am spus [00:21:10] decât jumătate din ea. Mă scuzează că m-am... Nu, nu m-ați întrebat. [00:21:15] Ați făcut completării necesare. Începusem să spun [00:21:20] cum nu trebuie să gândim să nu venim cu argumentul bunui simț pentru [00:21:25] că nu rezolvăm mare lucru. Bunul simț nu poate fi cuantificat și nu este universal [00:21:30] valabil.Difere de la o cultură la altă Însă, pide la cultura [00:21:35] afroamericanilor la cultura albilor protestanți. Și diferă [00:21:40] bunul simț de la cultura în raport cu cultura catolicilor. Deci [00:21:45] sunt culturi în care ceea ce e de bun simț pentru mine, [00:21:50] pentru ei nu e de bun simț. Deci nu bunul simț trebuie să [00:21:55] prevaleze trebuie să prevaleze ideea de bine comun, codificată în [00:22:00] limbaj politic, interesul public.Interesul public ce înseamnă? [00:22:05] Să încerci să iei drept criteriul de evaluare unde ne oprim [00:22:10] cu libertatea de expresie, acolo unde se pune problema [00:22:15] binelui tuturor, dacă nu al tuturor, pentru că e greu de realizat asta, [00:22:20] binele cât mai mult pentru un număr cât mai mare [00:22:25] de oameni. Este criteriul utilitarismului.[00:22:27] George Buhnici: Ok, sau dacă vreți o întorc eu invers, [00:22:30] lucrurile pe care ne-am vorbit de foarte multe ori aici să reducem suferința. [00:22:33] Dumitru Bortun: Să reducem suferința. [00:22:35] Ăsta e criteriul doctrinei utilitariste o doctrină etică, [00:22:40] reprezentatul cel mai important e John Stuart Mill. Are și o carte apărută în limba română [00:22:45] în librării, se găsește utilitarismul.John Stuart Mill asta spune că [00:22:50] ai un criteriu pentru cât mai mulți [00:22:55] oameni. Criteriul ăla pe care îl spune [00:23:00] în Sinedru, marele preot al [00:23:05] Israelului, că e bine să-l sacrifice pe Iisus decât să facă rău unui [00:23:10] popor întreg, era un sofist de fapt pentru că poporul nu murea dacă [00:23:15] ei nu-l crucificau. Însă el pune, argumentul ăsta este, pentru că [00:23:20] Iisus era un singur individ, iar poporul lui Izrael era format din [00:23:25] milioane.Și atunci dă prioritate celor care [00:23:30] sunt mai mulți. Genul ăsta de a gândi însă este salvator în [00:23:35] multe situații, pentru că alt criteriu nu avem. Nu avem criterii absolute pentru bine și rău. [00:23:40] Și atunci ne oprim cu libertatea de expresie acolo ne simțim că facem rău [00:23:45] mai mare. Și atunci haideți să comparăm.Dacă merg pe [00:23:50] discursul urii ăsta creează niște frustrări și [00:23:55] niște replici. Și feedback-ul ăla pozitiv care [00:24:00] amplifica, am mai vorbit despre el, și care poate să se ducă până la război civil. [00:24:03] George Buhnici: Când ziceți feedback [00:24:05] pozitiv este amplificarea urii. E [00:24:06] Dumitru Bortun: amplificare, nu e negativ, adică nu scade. [00:24:10] Iar ăsta, [00:24:15] libertatea de expresie, care poate să fie [00:24:20] deșântată duce la niște jigniri dar nu duce la violență.Și atunci, [00:24:25] care este mai aproape de binele comun? [00:24:30] Discursul urii sau corectul înapolitic? [00:24:35] Înțelegeți cum trebuie să gândim? Dar [00:24:40] corectitudinea [00:24:43] George Buhnici: politică a fost acuzată de foarte [00:24:45] multe ori de conservatori că este un slippery slope, că este alunecoasă, că ne [00:24:50] aduce către alte probleme Lucru pe care îl vedem și începem să venim ușor către Europa, [00:24:55] că se pare că noi nu am învățat din ce s-a întâmplat în Statele Unite și vedem asta acum în [00:25:00] Marea Britanie.Pas cu pas, britanicii simt că au [00:25:05] alunecat, că au ajuns într-un stat care [00:25:10] încearcă să-i controleze, care încearcă să-i forceze cu [00:25:15] migrație excesivă. Pentru [00:25:18] Dumitru Bortun: că ei nu au ajuns la [00:25:20] nivelul de autocontrol. Deci eu când am vorbit până acum, eu [00:25:25] vorbesc idealizând puțin adică idealizând ființa umană ca fiind o ființă [00:25:30] morală care are responsabilitatea faptelor sale și [00:25:35] consecințele științelor faptelor sale și atunci îți pui problema ce e mai rău [00:25:40] corecturile politică sau discursul lor și până la urmă îmi spui că e mai rău [00:25:45] discursul lor, că poate să ducă la război civil.Dar aveți [00:25:50] dreptate că nu toți oamenii sunt capabili de gândirea asta, pentru că gândirea asta de tip [00:25:55] moral este și o gândire mai abstractă. Ori nu toți oamenii își termină [00:26:00] ciclu de formare spirituală Nu-ți rămân needucați pe la jumătatea [00:26:05] drumului, sunt așa zis și neisprăviți. Oamenii ăștia nu pot să gândească moral, nu pot să [00:26:10] se gândească la...De-aia pleacă de acasă și își lasă copiii de [00:26:15] izbeliște, pentru că nu sunt suficient de responsabili, nu [00:26:20] s-au maturizat, nu au intrat în etapa etică a vârstei a vieții, sunt la [00:26:25] vârsta estetică, fac ce le place. Deci genul ăsta de [00:26:30] comportament l-a țăizat bine. Există [00:26:35] și societatea americană, și în societatea [00:26:40] britanică dar la britanici și știu unde batez la evenimente recente, este vorba de [00:26:45] revoltele care au avut loc de curând împotriva [00:26:50] imigranților.[00:26:50] George Buhnici: Despre ele vreau să vorbim acum. [00:26:52] Dumitru Bortun: Da. [00:26:52] George Buhnici: Așadar am văzut [00:26:55] protestele foarte recente cu peste 100 de 100 de oameni în stradă mult peste 100 de mii În [00:27:00] anumite locuri am văzut 100 de mii că se spunea. Important este că au ieșit mult mai mulți în stradă cei [00:27:05] care scandează împotriva imigrației, în timp ce pe [00:27:10] partea cealaltă am văzut puțini oameni la protestele care să protejeze [00:27:15] imigranții.Am văzut inclusiv pancarte de pe tabara cealaltă [00:27:20] destul de greu găsit, care spunea să-i mulțumim Lui Dumnezeu pentru imigranții. Thank God for [00:27:25] immigration, da, și alte lucruri, că mai bine să ne educăm decât să urăm imigranții și așa mai [00:27:30] departe Pe de altă parte ceilalți vin și spun că imigrația a fost scăpată de sub [00:27:35] control și că imigranții abuzează serviciile sociale, că nu vor să se [00:27:40] integreze, că schimbă țesătura socială a Marii Britanii.[00:27:44] Dumitru Bortun: [00:27:45] Domnul Bucnici, să încep tot cu un adevăr banal dar de multe ori [00:27:50] trebuie să plecăm de la lucruri banale ca să construim un argument. [00:27:55] Imensa majoritatea oamenilor nu sunt filozofii [00:28:00] și cetățenii britanici intră în aceeași categorie. Nu fac filozofie [00:28:05] istoriei și nu gândesc din perspectiva unei [00:28:10] istorie a civilizației.Dacă... [00:28:15] Vedeți am citit cu ani în urmă istoria civilizațiilor al lui Arnold [00:28:20] Toynbee. Pe urmă am citit... citit cartea lui Neagos Juvara, teza lui de [00:28:25] doctorat de istoria civilizațiilor. Știți cât e de șocant [00:28:30] când citești așa ceva? Seamănă cu o vizită la [00:28:35] cimitir. După o vizită la cimitir se devalorizează [00:28:40] totul.Nu mai știi dacă merită să te lupti pentru ce te-ai luptat până în ziua de azi. [00:28:45] Când vezi acolo că cimitirul e plin de oameni de neînlocuit. [00:28:49] George Buhnici: Care [00:28:49] Dumitru Bortun: au [00:28:50] fost cineva la viața lor. Și care până la urmă ajungem tot. [00:28:54] George Buhnici: Deocamdată [00:28:55] Ați văzut liderii din BRICS Care își fac planuri pentru încă [00:29:00] 70 de ani Fiecare Și [00:29:02] Dumitru Bortun: ce vreau să vă spun [00:29:05] Are loc o devalorizare A mizelor Pentru care noi trăim [00:29:10] La fel este când vezi istoria La scară mare [00:29:15] Când am citit Neagul Juvara de pildă Faptul că [00:29:20] Atunci când se schimbă o civilizație Cu alta Ajung în [00:29:25] frunte Oameni care nu au nimic de pierdut Care în civilizația trecută Nu [00:29:30] aveau nimic Și sunt primii Care luptă pentru [00:29:35] schimbare Și în mod firesc ajung în frunte Nu te mai miri Că au ajuns [00:29:40] în fruntea României Cei mai bogați oameni Niște oameni neanalfabeți Sau niște [00:29:45] oameni semidocți Deci [00:29:47] George Buhnici: vorbim despre oportuniști Care [00:29:50] neavând nimic de pierdut Și asumă Riscuri pe care oamenii De treabă [00:29:55] Oamenii civilizati, educați Și care au [00:29:57] Dumitru Bortun: un statut socioprofesional La care [00:30:00] țin s-au învățat în el S-au învățat cu avantajele lui Ăia nu milțează [00:30:05] pentru schimbare Și cu timpul schimbarea Îi ia pe sus și ei rămân în urmă [00:30:10] Rămân printre ultimii Și în frunte se trezesc Ăia care nu aveau nimic de [00:30:15] pierdut Când Neagul Juvara face analiză istorică Și arată că de fiecare dată [00:30:20] S-a întâmplat așa Când s-a trecut de la civilizația agrară la civilizația industrială, [00:30:25] acum se trece de la civilizația industrială la civilizația informațională și sunt la același [00:30:30] lucru.Și zic dom'le, gata, am înțeles. Dar [00:30:35] devii mai calm, devii mai zen, înțelegi cum stau [00:30:40] lucrurile, nu te mai înfurii, nu te mai indignezi, nu mai protestezi. Ori acești [00:30:45] oameni care ies în stradă n-au cum să-și dea seama că există o [00:30:50] tendință la nivel civilizațional de [00:30:55] migrarea oamenilor din spre est spre vest și din spre sud spre nord.[00:30:59] George Buhnici: [00:31:00] Și care va fi amplificată [00:31:01] Dumitru Bortun: Va fi amplificată în viitor. [00:31:03] George Buhnici: Și [00:31:03] Dumitru Bortun: ei nefiind [00:31:05] filozofia istoriei nu pot să zic, da, dom'le, așa stau lucrurile, ăsta e trendul. Ies [00:31:10] și-și apără locurile de muncă, își apără fetele ca să nu fie [00:31:15] violate de niște oameni, care vin din alte țări, sau [00:31:20] pur și simplu își apără identitatea domnului București.Pentru că mulți au [00:31:25] problema asta. Sunt de altă religie. Sunt de altă [00:31:30] factură. Ăștia nu putem ști la ce ne aștept de la ei. Și de multe ori e și [00:31:35] ignoranța. Pentru că ce s-a înzblat în București cu [00:31:40] băiatul ăla pognit în față pentru că e diferit și pentru că e [00:31:45] invadatorul nostru, asta vine din ignoranță. O dată tipul ăla de [00:31:50] 22 de ani care l-a pognit în față nu știe că noi nu avem resursă [00:31:55] umană, nu avem forță de muncă pentru aceste joburi și în al lui el nu știe că oamenii ăștia [00:32:00] sunt ori hinduși ori budiști, ori confucianiști [00:32:05] din țării din care vin, în care sunt oameni pașnici oameni care nu fură, [00:32:10] sunt mai cinstizi decât majoritatea românilor.Noi până nu facem [00:32:15] un chilipir, până nu păcărim pe cineva Pe [00:32:17] George Buhnici: da. Cum? Pe medie da. Pe [00:32:18] Dumitru Bortun: medie vorbesc. [00:32:20] Noi avem o rală a foloaselor necuvenite pe care se vede în toate domeniile. De la ăla [00:32:25] care i-aș pagă până la ăla care plăcează la doctorat în loc să [00:32:29] George Buhnici: [00:32:30] muncească el. Corect. Dar e exact ca în trafic, am mai dat exemplul ăsta de foarte [00:32:35] multe ori, unul singur trebuie să iasă din coloană și îl vedem toți.O să ne fugă atenția la [00:32:40] el. Un singur migrant care creează o problemă, la câteva mii, zeci de [00:32:45] mii, noi avem prea puțin într-adevăr Doar pentru câte nevoie este de resursă umană. Dacă stai de vorbă [00:32:50] cu orice antreprenor din țara, s-o să spună că duce lipsă acută de forță de muncă de [00:32:55] orice nivel de calificare.[00:32:56] Dumitru Bortun: Dar noi schimbarăm puțin subiectul. Asta era doar o [00:33:00] paranteză. Problema era că ăsta fiind străin, fiind diferit, fiind de altă religie s-ar [00:33:05] putea să cine știe ce ne facă. Fiindcă noi nu-l cunoaștem. [00:33:10] Documentează-te, interesează-te. [00:33:12] George Buhnici: Ajungem și acolo pentru că România este într-o situație foarte [00:33:15] interesantă.Această comunicare atât agresivă împotriva [00:33:20] imigranților într-o țară care de fapt are mari probleme de [00:33:25] emigrație, nu de imigrație. Este o țară de emigranți, nu în care se imigrează. Până și [00:33:30] ucrainenii. Era un comedian care a făcut o poantă foarte, foarte faină [00:33:35] care spunea că românii sunt atât de [00:33:40] primitori încât sunt mai mulți ucraineni refugiați în Bulgaria decât în România.Ăia [00:33:45] ca să ajungă în Bulgaria să treacă prin România, nu să oprescă, să duc la Bulgari. Bă, și Bulgaria e mai săracă Și [00:33:50] totuși sunt mai mulți ucraineni per total, ca număr refugiați decât în România. Te pun [00:33:55] un pic pe gânduri chestia asta. Ăia nu sunt nici de altă culoare, nici de altă religie. [00:34:00] Merg la următoare întrebare.[00:34:04] Dumitru Bortun: Dumneavoastră, nu [00:34:05] aveți o explicație? [00:34:06] George Buhnici: Ba da. [00:34:07] Dumitru Bortun: Nu suntem așa cum ne place să credem [00:34:10] că suntem. Că suntem toleranți și primitori. Știți cum suntem noi? Suntem ca [00:34:13] George Buhnici: mașinilele pe care scrie [00:34:15] sport. Dacă scrie sport pe mașină mașina aia nu-i sport. N-ar fi [00:34:20] nevoie [00:34:20] Dumitru Bortun: să scrie. [00:34:21] George Buhnici: Exact. [00:34:22] Dumitru Bortun: Deci noi ne punem aceste podoabe că [00:34:25] suntem toleranți.Dar din când în când în [00:34:30] istorie am dovedit că nu suntem. Dumneavoastră știți cât greu s-a [00:34:35] desfințat sclavia în România? [00:34:36] George Buhnici: Am fost ultimii din Europa care am oprit eobagia. [00:34:40][00:34:40] Dumitru Bortun: Da. [00:34:40] George Buhnici: Am [00:34:41] Dumitru Bortun: fost ultimii în Europa care am destinsat robia. Romii erau [00:34:45] robi. Asta sclavacism. Și era sub [00:34:50] presiunea Europei exact cum este acum.Ne spuneau [00:34:55] dacă vreți să vă primim în cadrele noastre și să deveniți europeni, trebuie să [00:35:00] terminați cu mizeria asta care este sclavacism. [00:35:05] Robii domnești, robii mânăstirești, robii boierești. Și toți erau [00:35:10] romi Deci asta nu înseamnă... Și eu [00:35:15] vă spun, am auzit acum câțiva ani, la aeroport eram la otopeni, o [00:35:20] discuție între niște din poliția de aeroport.Ce mă mai [00:35:25] revede că așteaptă și niște oameni acolo să uită și zice ăia sunt oameni, sunt țigani. Deci [00:35:30] această formă de [00:35:35] rasism și această formă de șovinism există încă, dar nu e [00:35:40] recunoscută palpită Știți? [00:35:45] În populația României și în instituții de multe ori Constituțiile statului au [00:35:50] astfel de atitudini.Deci nu. Pământ, gândiți-vă ce am făcut [00:35:55] în timpul celui de-al doilea război mondial vis-a-vis de evrei. Și [00:36:00] multe alte exemple. Nu mai zic ce au făcut [00:36:05] administratorii români în cadrii la ter în timpul ocupației românești de acolo Cu [00:36:10] turții, cu tătarii. Sau-au făcut [00:36:12] George Buhnici: jandarmii în Basarabia. [00:36:13] Dumitru Bortun: Da, jandarmii care [00:36:15] au lăsat o amintire foarte urâtă acolo.Deci toate lucrurile astea scot [00:36:20] la iveală anumite aspecte ale psihologiei românilor de care [00:36:25] nu ne place să vorbim, le băgăm sub covor, dar care îi zbognesc din când în [00:36:30] când. Iată de ce în România nu se simt foarte [00:36:35] bine niște oameni veniți din afară și preferă să se ducă în Bulgaria, de pildă, care [00:36:40] e mai sărac.[00:36:40] George Buhnici: Vin de la festivalul vinului moldovenesc, [00:36:45] pe Kiselev. Acolo am fost în seara asta și [00:36:50] de fapt profesional mă uit la oameni. Am văzut un cuplu de [00:36:55] japonezi cred că era, și un singur tip de culoare. În [00:37:00] rest nu prea am văzut străini. Pe de altă parte ni se tot spune pe social media că [00:37:05] românii habar nu au ce să Frumoasă țară au și ce [00:37:10] frumoasă e coeziunea noastră socială în care nu suntem invadați și care să [00:37:15] ținem să protejăm chestia asta.Din nou, nu sunt sigur [00:37:20] dacă îmi doresc să văd mult mai mult străini, dar nu sunt sigur [00:37:25] dacă avem prea puțini. [00:37:27] Dumitru Bortun: Eu unul m-aș bucura. Eu sunt [00:37:30] unul dintre oamenii care valorizează pozitiv diferența. [00:37:35] Care cred că diferențele sunt o sursă de dezvoltare, [00:37:40] sunt un bagaj. Apropo de cei care scuiau, [00:37:45] ne-a dat Dumnezeu darul ăsta cu imigranții, [00:37:50] pentru că unii îi urăsc și vor să-i trimită înapoi iar alții spun că este un [00:37:55] dar de la Dumnezeu să ai imigranții, să ai în primul rând o forță de muncă pentru anumite [00:38:00] meserici, în al doilea rând să ai o diversitate culturală religioasă.Care e problema? [00:38:05] Care e problema că sunt diferiți de tine? Te sperii atât mult diferența? Te bag [00:38:10] așa în angoasă și în insecuritate și în incertitudine? Iată, [00:38:15] deci, eu cred că oamenii care îi urăsc pe străini sunt [00:38:20] permite să încalcă principiul corectitudinii politice, [00:38:25] am să fiu liber, ca la exprimare sunt minți înguste și suflete [00:38:30] mici.[00:38:30] George Buhnici: Ok. Pentru că noi toți am profitat de pe urma [00:38:35] prosperității și felul în care am fost primiți în multe alte țări. [00:38:40][00:38:40] Dumitru Bortun: Absolut. [00:38:41] George Buhnici: Și totuși, ce face aceste proteste cum am văzut în Marea [00:38:45] Britanie? Nu bag mâna în foc, că nu o vedem unul curând și pe la noi, deși încă o dată, noi nu avem o problemă urgentă, [00:38:50] dar ce face ca aceste proteste să strângă masea atât de [00:38:55] mari?Încă o dată, eu cred că ce-am văzut la Londra e doar începutul. De unde vine chestia asta? Pentru că e prima [00:39:00] dată când auzim că oamenii sunt mai preocupați de migrație decât de economie. [00:39:05] E o chestie de identitate? E o chestie de manipulare prin presă sau de social media? [00:39:10] Și, și, și. [00:39:11] Dumitru Bortun: În primul rând e o problemă de identitate și oamenii sunt [00:39:15] foarte sensibili la problema asta cu [00:39:20] identitatea Cine sunt?Cine suntem noi? Ne raportăm la alții [00:39:25] prin diferențe și vin ăștia peste noi care sunt diferiți și așa mai [00:39:30] departe. Pe urmă este lipsa de cunoaștere. Dumneavoastră [00:39:35] am mai vorbit cred, la dumneavoastră, am vorbit despre sindromul chinezesc. [00:39:40] Eu folosesc expresia asta, expresia [00:39:45] mea. De la distanță tot chinezii sunt la fel.[00:39:50]Seamănă între ei. Dar ia du-te și stai acolo câteva [00:39:55] luni sau câțiva ani că începi să-i deosebești. Îți dai seama ce vârste au. Ce [00:40:00] înseamnă un chinez tânăr un chinez la vârstă mijlocie, un chinez în vârstă bătrân. [00:40:05] Opa, stai că începi să-mi nuanțezi percepția. De ce? Îi [00:40:10] cunosc. Cu cât îi cunoști mai puțin cu atât îi vezi la fel.[00:40:15] Ăsta-i sindromul chinezesc. Păi asta este cu orice alt grup uman. De la [00:40:20] distanță par toți la fel. Îi bagi într-o categorie fiindcă e mai comod mental. [00:40:25] În momentul în care îi cunoști, viața te obligă să faci diferență Între ei, [00:40:30] ce spună Spună bună dimineața îi spun să rămână. Deci trebuie să știu cu [00:40:35] cine am de-a face, încep să vezi diferențele.Eu cred că [00:40:40] o mare parte dintre aceste [00:40:45] mișcări de masă se bazează pe ignoranță. În [00:40:50] altă parte, în altă măsură, se bazează pe grija [00:40:55] pentru identitate și în altă măsură pe manipulare. [00:41:00] Pe faptul că rețelele sociale amplifică. Și atunci ce se întâmplă, [00:41:05] domnul Bunic? Rețelele astea sociale amplifică, știți cum?[00:41:10] Și intensiv și ca amploare, [00:41:15] extensiv. Ca amploare e normal să înțelege toată lumea. Datorită [00:41:20] multiplicării fără limite a mesajelor, o masă [00:41:25] imensă de oameni... [00:41:25] George Buhnici: Poate să afle orice nenorocire Mesajul. Da [00:41:28] Dumitru Bortun: Și poate să [00:41:30] creadă că mai are puțin și ia foc Marea Britanie. Sau [00:41:33] George Buhnici: că usturoiul ăla chiar [00:41:35] este cât roata de la bicicletă.[00:41:36] Dumitru Bortun: Exact. Și cred, pentru că sunt mai mulți. [00:41:40] Și apare acel sofism, acel argument [00:41:45] fals, că dacă și alții zic înseamnă că așa e. Pe urmă... [00:41:50] Știu [00:41:50] George Buhnici: eu pe cineva care a văzut că pământul e plat. [00:41:51] Dumitru Bortun: Da, da, da. Cunosc și eu un caz la Bacău.[00:41:55]Ceva de genul ăsta. S-a [00:42:00] labuzat. S-a labuzat, labuzat labuzat Labuzat, da. Așa. Deci asta este [00:42:05] un aspect. Dar mai e un aspect. Cu cât discuțiile [00:42:10] sunt mai numeroase pe internet, cu atât oamenii [00:42:15] devin mai fanatici cu propriile opinii. Și știți de ce? Noi am mai [00:42:20] discutat la un podcastul meu astăzi. Aici vorbim de paradigme.Ori într-o paradigmă [00:42:25] argumentele sunt circulare. Ele pleacă de la premisele paradigmei [00:42:30] și confirmă întăresc premisele. Și cu cât un [00:42:35] om își dezvoltă mai mult demonstrația și argumentele, cu atât se [00:42:40] luminează mai mult câtă dreptate are. Ca Charlie Kirk. Exact. Exact [00:42:45] cazul ăsta. Și atunci apare... Această circularitate, cu [00:42:50] cât vorbesc mai mult, cu atât mă convinc mai mult.Deci dialogul nu ne unește. Dialogul ne [00:42:55] desparte și mai rău. Este ceea ce se numește, în teoria comunicării, [00:43:00] dialogul surzilor. Fiecare s-au de pe el, nu l-au de pe celălalt. Deci [00:43:05] rețele sociale au dus la o amplificare și ca amploare, [00:43:10] la o adâncime și adâncire a diferențelor și [00:43:15] a opozițiilor ca intensitate.[00:43:17] George Buhnici: Nu durează puțin chestia asta. Durează [00:43:20] E un proces complex. Dar dacă ne uităm un pic în spate aveam rețele sociale de suficient de multă vreme încât să-și făcut [00:43:25] efectul acești algoritmi Într-o competiție acerbă pentru audiență au amplificat lucrurile care [00:43:30] se viralizează, iar apoi au apărut actorii statali care folosesc [00:43:35] aceste narațiuni pentru politica lor externă.Și aici întrebarea este, cum [00:43:40] lucrează aceste narațiuni, cum ar fi narațiunea invaziei a re-emigrării în aceste emoții [00:43:45] colective? Și cine le orchestrează? Credeți că există păpușari sau este doar furia noastră [00:43:50] care ne ocupă pe noi înșine pe toți? Există păpușari [00:43:54] Dumitru Bortun: care [00:43:55] profită de pe urma acestor furii. [00:44:00] E foarte interesant.Are Salman Rushdie, cel care a scris [00:44:05] versetele satanice, are un roman, Furia, în care [00:44:10] face o analiză de mare subtilitate acolo, acțiunea petrecându-se în Statele Unite ale [00:44:15] Americii. Se izizează manifestările de furie în [00:44:20] diferite domenii și pe diferite niveluri sociale. Furia ca stat. [00:44:25] E spirit, ca spirit al epocii de spirit de taim [00:44:30] Putem spune că furia este emoția [00:44:32] George Buhnici: acestei generații?Da, [00:44:33] Dumitru Bortun: da. Asta [00:44:35] demonstrează Salman Rushdie. E tulburător să [00:44:40] ai zis seama că s-a născut o generație sub ochii noștri și din mâinile noastre [00:44:45] furioasă. Știți că prin anii 60 a păruse un [00:44:50] curent în dramaturgia britanică tinerii furioși. Care au scris [00:44:55] niște piese foarte cunoscute la vremea respectivă, Camera în formă [00:45:00] de el, Fiață sportivă, Privește înapoi cu mânie, [00:45:05] Singurătatea alergătorii de cursă lungă, toate astea au devenit filme de mare [00:45:10] artisticitate.Tinerii furioși era [00:45:15] prima repriză. Au urmat repriza a doua, s-au mai calmat, au [00:45:20] urmat Revoluția sexuală, au urmat mișcări despre înțelegi în 68, hippie [00:45:25] și așa mai departe. Hippie care erau pacifiști la bază. Da erau pacifiști, dar tot [00:45:30] pacifismul ăsta lor retragerea din societate era de fapt o reacție de contestare a [00:45:35] societății moștenite la părinților.Ăștia de astăzi nu mă să mai retrag pur [00:45:40] și simplu for să o distrugă, pentru că nu le place ce au primit ca moștenire. [00:45:44] George Buhnici: O parte [00:45:45] dintre ei, că avem și retrași o vedem în Asia, începem să vedem și [00:45:50] la noi, nu știu dacă ați auzit, n-am apucat eu să vă trimit înainte, vorbim mai nou, să [00:45:55] mă ierte cei mai tineri despre the Gen Z stare, adică [00:46:00] chestia asta, atitudinea asta, că orice îl întrebi, când vorbești cu unul mai [00:46:05] tânăr, care a luat un job, se uită așa la tine, fără reacție.The [00:46:10] stare, adică pur și simplu se uită, această mină pietrificată. Poker face. [00:46:15] Poker face. Acest poker face, generația poker face, am putea să-i spună dacă vreți. Deci [00:46:20] avem genul ăsta de retragere orică un fel de revolt orică ar pur și simplu ca plictiseală [00:46:25] ca demotivare sau pur și simplu descărcare completă de emoție după atât de [00:46:30] multă furie cât este amplificată și refuzul [00:46:32] Dumitru Bortun: de implicare emoțională [00:46:33] George Buhnici: da [00:46:35] deci furie și refuz de implicare aici suntem între astea două [00:46:40] ok, toate astea sunt amplificate de tot felul de [00:46:45] influențări care mulți dintre ei se pun în fața oamenilor dar de fapt sunt niște miliardari [00:46:50] de aici spun că luptă acolo pentru interesea oamenilor și Charlie Kirk era finanțat de miliardari nu era nici el [00:46:55] sărac foarte puternic susținut de Elon Musk transportat [00:47:00] sicriul lui de J.D Vance cu Air Force 2 și [00:47:05] asta este doar exemplul ăsta concret dar mai avem oameni foarte bucăți cum a fost pe exemplu că vă [00:47:10] povesteam la un moment dat vorbeam noi despre acel influencer care a venit cu un avion privat la București [00:47:15] să ia un interviu unei candidate la prezidențiale doar dorind să [00:47:20] salveze democrația românească tot felul de influențări în ăștia parașutați cu foarte mulți bani [00:47:25] de ce credeți că acești miliardari folosesc aceste [00:47:30] narațiuni în acest mod și acești algoritmi împotriva oamenilor [00:47:35] ce [00:47:35] Dumitru Bortun: se iunește pe ei Pe [00:47:40] evanghelicii albi din Middle America parcă de [00:47:45] mijlocul Americii Și pe mari miliardari care vin din aceste [00:47:50] industrie de vârf.[00:47:51] George Buhnici: Așa. [00:47:54] Dumitru Bortun: [00:47:55] Doctrina acceleraționistă. Se numește așa pentru că pleacă de la... [00:48:00] Se duce în multe direcții, dar pleacă de la un trunc comun. De la [00:48:05] constatarea că istoria s-a accelerat și că [00:48:10] ritmul de evoluție tehnologică e atât de mare [00:48:15] încât societatea nu mai face față nu mai ține ritm. Și atunci, [00:48:20] marii reprezentanții ai firmelor tehnologice [00:48:25] vor să limiteze democrația, pe care o simt [00:48:30] înceată, birocratizată o simt că nu ține pasul cu [00:48:35] inovarea tehnologică și domeniul cu care sunteți foarte [00:48:40] familiari, că lucrați în domeniul ăsta și promovați, progresul [00:48:45] tehnologic, bine faceți, dar ei spun așa că democrația este un [00:48:50] regim politic cronofag.Știți? [00:48:53] George Buhnici: Că ține pe loc. [00:48:55][00:48:55] Dumitru Bortun: Mănâncă timp Și până când [00:49:00] ajungi să iei o decizie, a trecut, a zburat [00:49:05] gaia cu mațul. Nu mai ai timp. [00:49:10] A zburat momentul în care trebuia luată decizia Și să [00:49:15] acumulează o serie întreagă de blocaje care până la urmă să intră în criză și ei vor să [00:49:20] deblocheze chestia asta. [00:49:21] George Buhnici: Pentru că se văd într-o competiție cu alții care fac același lucru.Da. [00:49:25] Și vor să... [00:49:26] Dumitru Bortun: Toți ăștia care sunt în jurul lui Trump și [00:49:30] care finanțează MAGA, mișcarea asta, [00:49:35] America Great Again, sunt ăștia, [00:49:40] acceleraționiști. Ei se întâlnesc foarte bine cu aceștii [00:49:45] evanghelici albi din Middle America pentru că și pleacă de la ideea că s-a accelerat [00:49:50] și că dacă vrem să accelerăm, dacă e bine că [00:49:55] s-accelerează, pentru că vine...Mai repede Iisus. A doua venire a lui Iisus să se apropie mai [00:50:00] repede. Și atunci ei au intrat în administrație în politică [00:50:05] în școli, vor să intre peste tot, au teoria celor 8 munți. Nu [00:50:10] știu dacă știți vorbesc cu cei care ne urmăresc, dumneavoastră știți că în [00:50:15] Vechiul Testament există un simbol al muntelui, muntele Sinai, în care [00:50:20] Dumnezeu vorbește cu Moise și îi dă cele 10 [00:50:25] porunci, cele două table cu cele 10 porunci, există [00:50:30] muntele Tabor, există muntele Templului, sunt mai multe munți sfinți [00:50:35] care au o simbolistică foarte puternică pentru [00:50:40] iudaism pentru creștinism.Deci pentru iudeocrăștini, [00:50:45] aceștia evanghelici spun că îi trebuie să cucerească opt munți. Un munte [00:50:50] este administrația, alt munte este învățământul educația în [00:50:55] general, alt munte este sănătatea și trebuie să aibă oameni peste tot. Și [00:51:00] ăștia toți trebuie să accelereze și să țină ritm cât mai mult și s-au [00:51:05] întâlnit în foarte multe obiective, printre care cel antidemocratic, cu oamenii [00:51:10] de afaceri cu mari businessmen.Iată de ce se întâmplă în America. Se [00:51:15] dă peste cap o întreagă tradiție și un întreg mecanism de [00:51:20] evoluție socială. Și totul de la tehnologie, [00:51:25] domnul Bucnici. Cum adică de la tehnologie? Păi întotdeauna a fost așa Karl Marx [00:51:30] a vorbit în alți termeni, dar el spunea așa, forțele de producție determină tipul de relație de [00:51:35] producție.Și a vorbit de legea concordanței, între forțele de producție și relații de producție Ce sunt forțele [00:51:40] de producție? E tehnologia. [00:51:41] George Buhnici: Eu sunt de acord că e tehnologia, dar ce adaugă [00:51:45] marxistile în iniște este că, faimoasa zicere, că nu există câștig fără [00:51:50] ca cineva să-și fost furat. Și în cazul ăsta oamenii munce Nu, [00:51:53] Dumitru Bortun: e pe [00:51:55] altă linie, e pe altă direcție.În ceea ce plăcește mecanismul evoluției sociale În mecanismele de [00:51:58] George Buhnici: producție există un [00:52:00] asupritor care ia roadele acestei productivități de la oamenii muncii și nu [00:52:05] distribuie Știu [00:52:05] Dumitru Bortun: dar nu asta contează acum. Contează ce spuneam că ei spun că modurile de producție sunt [00:52:10] schimbate. Din cauza evoluției tehnologice.[00:52:13] George Buhnici: Așa. [00:52:13] Dumitru Bortun: Că [00:52:15] atunci când mijloacele de producții erau atât rudimentare încât trebuia să ne [00:52:20] ajutăm noi între noi, era comuna primitivă, după care s-au mai [00:52:25] evoluat mijloacele de producții, dar atunci nu erau suficiente pentru [00:52:30] ca toată lumea să stea și să producă, fiindcă nu erau mașini. Și atunci jumătatea din [00:52:35] omenire a fost transformată în sclavi.Și jumătatea au devenit stăpâni de [00:52:40] sclavi. Și au folosit păștea păstă unelte. Unelte vorbitoare cum [00:52:45] definește sclavul Aristotel. Un altă vorbitoare. O dată cu o [00:52:50] revoluție industrială apar mașinile. Opa, în momentul ăsta omul devine [00:52:55] conducător al mașinii, dar mașina face efortul în locul lui. Să termină cu [00:53:00] sclavia, apare capitalismul.Deci toate lucrurile astea sunt trase de [00:53:05] dezvoltarea tehnologică. [00:53:06] George Buhnici: Păi da dar tehnologia despre care ne-ați vorbit și care duce la această [00:53:10] tensiune, este cea care a redus cel mai mult suferința pentru toată planeta. [00:53:14] Dumitru Bortun: Eu n-am spus [00:53:15] că e rea. Eu explic de ce se întâmplă. Se întâmplă această mare transformare [00:53:20] socială în America, ea fiind vârful de lance al civilizației occidentale, se întâmplă [00:53:25] întâi la ei.[00:53:25] George Buhnici: Se [00:53:25] Dumitru Bortun: va întâmpla și la noi. Este vorba de aceste schimbări [00:53:30] produse de progresul tehnologic. Într-adevăr accelerat. [00:53:33] George Buhnici: Trebuie să mai gândiți la asta, [00:53:35] pentru că m-ați pus un pic pe gânduri. [00:53:36] Dumitru Bortun: Da, mai meditați. [00:53:37] George Buhnici: Mai dați un pic de gândire. [00:53:39] Dumitru Bortun: Asta nu [00:53:40] înseamnă că nu trebuie să promovați progresul tehnologii. Promovați-i Dar promovați-i în acea [00:53:45] paradigma [00:53:47] George Buhnici: utilitarismului.Da. Eu la asta mă uit. Spre binele [00:53:50] cât mai mari, pentru cât mai [00:53:51] Dumitru Bortun: mulți. [00:53:52] George Buhnici: Mâi la ceasul de la mâna noastră, care vă poate anunța când [00:53:55] aveți probleme de puls. Da, [00:53:56] Dumitru Bortun: exact. [00:53:56] George Buhnici: E nevoie de [00:53:57] Dumitru Bortun: așa ceva. Da, e un câștig. [00:53:58] George Buhnici: Dar nu putem să-l lăsăm pe [00:54:00] băiatul care deține compania aia să-și pună președinte. [00:54:03] Dumitru Bortun: Să ne pună șeful. [00:54:05] Exact.Pentru că el are companie, e lăudabil, dar nu îl a ales nimeni. [00:54:10] Exact. [00:54:10] George Buhnici: Bun. Revenim către România. România trece la [00:54:15] sfârșitul anului trecut prin anularea alegerilor prezidențiale, apoi vin valurile de proteste și o campanie [00:54:20] rerulată sub umbra acestei ingerințe ruse, despre care vorbim inclusiv în [00:54:25] Moldova cum și în alte locuri.Avem rețele pro-Kremlin și conexiuni [00:54:30] moldovene, inclusiv rețeaua SHORE, despre care aflăm tot mai multe zile la acestea prin cei care urmăresc foarte, [00:54:35] foarte interesant câte informații se laiveau în ultima perioadă despre această rețea SHORE, care [00:54:40] operează și la noi, care au amplificat Narațiuni peste tot, Facebook, Telegram și așa mai departe, [00:54:45] inclusiv mesajele anti-UE, dar și anti-migrație, despre care vorbeam puțin mai devreme.[00:54:50]Acum, întrebarea este. Revin un pic și aș vrea să [00:54:55] închidem această discuție Înțelegem că există aceste forme de manipulare și mult [00:55:00] o să zică, iarăși începe să vorbească buhnici de troli ruși. Dar credeți că există o [00:55:05] legătură între discursul anti-imigrație în România, o țară de emigranți nu de [00:55:10] imigrație, care să fie folosite de aceste rețele de [00:55:15] propagandă rusești?[00:55:16] Dumitru Bortun: Da. Scopul final [00:55:20] al propagandei rusești este dezmembrarea Uniunii [00:55:25] Europene, care reprezintă un mare obstacol din punct de vedere [00:55:30] comercial, tehnologic, economic, politic. Și [00:55:35] pentru asta trebuie să întoarcă popoarele astea [00:55:40] needucate din fosta zonă comunistă, [00:55:45] care au ieșit de curând din regimuri totalitare sau dictatoriale, să [00:55:50] le întoarcă împotriva Uniunii Europene.Și n-ai cum să-i [00:55:55] întorci decât spunându-le ce răi Uniunea Europeană, ce răi sunt [00:56:00] birocrații de la Bruxelles, ce lucruri relevă. Trebuie să le [00:56:05] dezvolți și mândria de a fi români sau de a fi bulgari [00:56:10] să dezvolți identitatea lor naționalistă, suveranistă, să le [00:56:15] propui suveranitate în condițiile în care o lume întreagă să devine [00:56:20] interconectată.Ei propun suveranitatea să rămași răul de tot în urmă. [00:56:25] Ca evoluție istorică Ei nu pricep în ce epocă ne aflăm, dar lucrează [00:56:30] cu materialul clientului. [00:56:31] George Buhnici: Ei vor să aibă telefoane produse în străinătate, internet, să se [00:56:35] uită să vadă, să aibă lumea să aibă o fereastră către lume aici? [00:56:37] Dumitru Bortun: Da, dar asta e tehnologie.Nu este [00:56:40] o imagine despre procesul istoric. Ei habar n-au că a existat [00:56:45] o epocă feudală, că a existat o epocă modernă că noi suntem în postmodernitate. Nu [00:56:50] au poziționat. Și gândesc că a nevăd mediul. [00:56:53] George Buhnici: Au acest fallacy că [00:56:55] poți să păstrezi, să stăm cu toții în ie și în costum popular, dar înconjurați de toate [00:57:00] fructele globalizării.[00:57:01] Dumitru Bortun: Da. Exact cum era în Iran la Revoluția lui Khomeini. Mi-a [00:57:05] spus cineva care a fugit de acolo. Era la noi în țară era studentul meu la [00:57:10] arhitectură. Și mi-a spus că marea majoritate, 80% [00:57:15] erau analfabeți, dar aveau televizor color în bordeile lor [00:57:20] acolo și câte un calașnicov dat de ruși. Așa s-a făcut Revoluția [00:57:25] musulmană.Ca la [00:57:25] George Buhnici: noi. Toată lumea are câte un smartphone și opinie pe TikTok. Și ei [00:57:29] Dumitru Bortun: [00:57:30] analfabetiți funcționă. Și [00:57:31] George Buhnici: totuși, atinge niște anxietăți, așa cum am mai auzit [00:57:35] lucrul ăsta, propaganda folosește anxietăți reale. Lucrează cu materialul [00:57:40] clientului. Piața muncii de identitate Mi-ați vorbit, servicii [00:57:45] publice. [00:57:45] Dumitru Bortun: Păi orice schimbare, domnul Bucurniciu orice schimbare creează anxietate.Prima este să [00:57:50] ești pregătit Sufletește de schimbare? Ești pregătit ideologic? [00:57:55] Ai niște idei care justifică schimbarea? Ți-a spus vreodată cineva că singurul absolut [00:58:00] care există în lume e schimbarea? În lumea de azi, [00:58:05] în lumea de aici, singurul lucru absolut e schimbarea. Restul e relativ, [00:58:10] pentru că totul se schimbă.Numai în cer există cineva care nu se [00:58:15] schimbă. Dumnezeu. Și-o și spune în Maleachi, unul dintre [00:58:20] cei mai interesanții profeți mici spune, eu nu mă schimb. [00:58:25] Eu sunt Dumnezeu nu mă schimb. Deci el e reperul fundamental pentru [00:58:30] noi ca să știm când ne schimbăm, când nu. Avem un reper fix, Dumnezeu [00:58:35] cu legile lui, cu legea morală, cu legea sanitară, cu tot ce [00:58:40] știm, discursul despre fericiri de pe munte.[00:58:45] Deci toate lucrurile astea să [00:58:50] înțelegem cred foarte bine când ai o cultură a schimbării [00:58:55] Și tu îți dai seama că trebuie să faci parte din schimbare, să ții pasul cu schimbarea, că dacă [00:59:00] nu-ți place schimbarea sau nu înțelege problema ta, nu e problema schimbării și că nimeni nu e de [00:59:05] vină. Tu trebuie să ții pasul cu ea.Dacă ai niște copii pe [00:59:10] care nu-i mai înțelegi e problema ta, trebuia să ții pasul cu ei și să înveți și [00:59:15] tu de la copiii tăi, nu doar Ei de la tine Pentru că tu le predai Ce se învețe de [00:59:19] George Buhnici: la [00:59:19] Dumitru Bortun: tine? Păi [00:59:20] ce se învețe de la tine? Ce era sub Ceaușescu? Să le bați, îi bați [00:59:25] la cap că era mai bine înainte sub Ceaușescu?Era mai bine pentru tine că era mai tânăr. Pentru ei n-ar fi [00:59:30] mai bine. Deci toate înapoierile astea ale noastre, [00:59:35] încetinea, inerția de a ne schimba, frica de a ne schimba, comoditatea. [00:59:40] Sunt multe ori care ne țin în loc să nu ne schimbăm. Și începem să înjurăm [00:59:45] schimbarea. Suntem împotriva ei. Și respectiv împotriva progresului [00:59:50] tehnologic, împotriva integrării transnaționale și împotriva [00:59:55] Uniunii Europene.Și ăștia atât așteaptă. Să ne întoarcă împotriva Uniunii Europene. [00:59:59] George Buhnici: Mi s-a [01:00:00] părut maxim când am văzut-o pe Madame Șoșoacă în căruță. Nu și-a căzut [01:00:05] imaginea. Cântând într-o căruță. [01:00:06] Dumitru Bortun: Dar face pe autochronista. [01:00:10][01:00:10] George Buhnici: Așadar avem partii de care au învățat să folosească chestiile astea. [01:00:15] Și folosesc toate acestea anxietate Și le transformă în capital politic.Pe de altă parte [01:00:20] avem și o coaliție la putere Care repetă toate greșelile pe care le-au făcut și alte [01:00:25] coaliții de voință. Din mai multe țări europene. În care ne strângem împreună pentru [01:00:30] interesul public. Nu mai face nimeni o poziție reală. Și atunci singurii care capitalizează [01:00:35] cine sunt. Exact cum s-a întâmplat în Germania.Că și Frau Merkel era într-o alianță [01:00:40] mare de tot acolo la putere. Multă vreme n-a deranjat-o nimeni. A avut [01:00:45] niște mandate foarte lungi și foarte liniștite. Era [01:00:48] Dumitru Bortun: chiar o liniște [01:00:50] suspectă. Știți cum se spune în literatură? Liniștea dinaintea furtunii. Asta era. [01:00:55][01:00:55] George Buhnici: Și acolo unde nu există opoziție, nu există dezbatere, democrația nu este vie, [01:01:00] se ridică întotdeauna extremiștii.Și acum vedem același lucru la noi. Am avut USL [01:01:05] până recent. Eu o-i zic USL, acest PSD-PNL, care acum este [01:01:10] în continuare mângăiat pe creștetă de președintele nostru Nicușor [01:01:15] Dan. Și vedem cum crește de la o zi la alta. Săptămâna asta a ieșit un [01:01:20] sondaj că coaliția de la putere mai are procente puține în [01:01:25] față În condițiile actuale.[01:01:27] Dumitru Bortun: E vreo 4%. [01:01:30] Vreau să vă spun că m-am gândit la aspectul ăsta. Am [01:01:35] trei recomandări, trei soluții. În primul rând ar [01:01:40] trebui să descurajeze statul și chiar să interzică dacă e cazul, [01:01:45] discursul urii Și să o facă până nu va fi prea târziu. [01:01:50] Atenți, unde discursul urii. O să-mi zic, da, dar asta nu e restrângerea libertății de [01:01:55] expresie?Ba da. Dar trebuie făcut. Și am să vă povestesc o [01:02:00] poezie lăsată moștenire de Martin [01:02:05] Niemöller, un pastor luteran din Germania, Care [01:02:10] a trăit 92 de ani, a murit în 1984, a supraviețuit la mai multe [01:02:15] lagăre naziste. Și își se spune în nume alături. Foarte interesan

rom the creators of The Stew Beat Showcase comes the Beat Club Podcast, the #1 destination for beatmakers, producers, and music lovers worldwide. Each Sunday, Dee Loopz< Motivate Merren and Trench Got Game bring you unfiltered conversations, live beat critiques, and the energy of a global producer community.Whether it's Keep It or Cut It, beat battles for Beat of the Week, or spotlighting hidden gems from producers across the globe, the Beat Club Podcast gives you real feedback, industry insights, and plenty of laughs along the way. Expect everything from boom bap to trap, drill to R&B, and everything in between—this is where creativity lives.✅ Upload your beats at BeatClubPodcast.com for a chance to be heard.✅ Join the conversation with producers on Instagram & Twitter: @BeatClubPodcast.✅ Network with creators in our private Facebook group: Stew Beat Club.If you're a music producer, beatmaker, or hip-hop fan looking for inspiration, critiques, and a platform that champions raw talent, you've found your home. Tune in, turn up, and be part of the movement—because this is the Beat Club Podcast, where producers are heard.__________________________________Music game, live music review, music pfp, ortho surgeon music, Kids music, food music, trucks with music, musical theatre dance, spotify music reviewer job, musical chairs alone, beats review, beats fit pro review, beating cancers, stepping on the beat, beating teapot, Mhm beat tutorial, garageband beats, Beats Studio Review, Beats pro, sstepteam beat, Beats, what is hip hop, Hip hop kids, ballerina doing hip hop, hip hop freestyle, hip hop boat in cabo, Beats pro, hip hop class, hip hop dances to learn, lsu hip hop. Upload your beats www.beatclubpodcast.com | #whereproducersareheardFind out about our next LIVE episode by following us on https://www.instagram.com/beatclubpodcastSubscribe & watch exclusive clips on our Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@BeatClubPodcastAnd don't forget to follow our hosts on social media:@Doitallloopz | @MotivateMerren | @Trenchgotgame

Criminal Minds, in "Full Tilt Boogie" from Season 13, addresses the opioid epidemic plaguing America's (white) communities the same way it addresses every societal issue in its purview: poorly. Learn what an Mhm is in the latest episode of Deliver The Profile, your stalwart defense against the forces of bad procedural television.

Ever seen an acronym and thought, “What does THAT mean?” In this episode of The Wake Up Call with Scotch, Tank & Mandy, Mandy brings a list of tricky acronyms—including MHM—and challenges Scotch and Tank to guess their meanings. From hilarious wrong answers to surprising real definitions, this game will keep you laughing and learning. Play along and see if you can figure them out before the guys do!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From the creators of The Stew Beat Showcase comes the Beat Club Podcast, the #1 destination for beatmakers, producers, and music lovers worldwide. Each Sunday, Dee Loopz,  Motivate Merren and Trench Got Game bring you unfiltered conversations, live beat critiques, and the energy of a global producer community.Whether it's Keep It or Cut It, beat battles for Beat of the Week, or spotlighting hidden gems from producers across the globe, the Beat Club Podcast gives you real feedback, industry insights, and plenty of laughs along the way. Expect everything from boom bap to trap, drill to R&B, and everything in between—this is where creativity lives.✅ Upload your beats at BeatClubPodcast.com for a chance to be heard.✅ Join the conversation with producers on Instagram & Twitter: @BeatClubPodcast.✅ Network with creators in our private Facebook group: Stew Beat Club.If you're a music producer, beatmaker, or hip-hop fan looking for inspiration, critiques, and a platform that champions raw talent, you've found your home. Tune in, turn up, and be part of the movement—because this is the Beat Club Podcast, where producers are heard.__________________________________Music game, live music review, music pfp, ortho surgeon music, Kids music, food music, trucks with music, musical theatre dance, spotify music reviewer job, musical chairs alone, beats review, beats fit pro review, beating cancers, stepping on the beat, beating teapot, Mhm beat tutorial, garageband beats, Beats Studio Review, Beats pro, sstepteam beat, Beats, what is hip hop, Hip hop kids, ballerina doing hip hop, hip hop freestyle, hip hop boat in cabo, Beats pro, hip hop class, hip hop dances to learn, lsu hip hop. Upload your beats www.beatclubpodcast.com | #whereproducersareheardFind out about our next LIVE episode by following us on https://www.instagram.com/beatclubpodcastSubscribe & watch exclusive clips on our Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@BeatClubPodcastAnd don't forget to follow our hosts on social media:@Doitallloopz | @MotivateMerren | @Trenchgotgame

From the creators of The Stew Beat Showcase comes the Beat Club Podcast, the #1 destination for beatmakers, producers, and music lovers worldwide. Each Sunday, Dee Loopz,  Motivate Merren and Trench Got Game bring you unfiltered conversations, live beat critiques, and the energy of a global producer community.Whether it's Keep It or Cut It, beat battles for Beat of the Week, or spotlighting hidden gems from producers across the globe, the Beat Club Podcast gives you real feedback, industry insights, and plenty of laughs along the way. Expect everything from boom bap to trap, drill to R&B, and everything in between—this is where creativity lives.✅ Upload your beats at BeatClubPodcast.com for a chance to be heard.✅ Join the conversation with producers on Instagram & Twitter: @BeatClubPodcast.✅ Network with creators in our private Facebook group: Stew Beat Club.If you're a music producer, beatmaker, or hip-hop fan looking for inspiration, critiques, and a platform that champions raw talent, you've found your home. Tune in, turn up, and be part of the movement—because this is the Beat Club Podcast, where producers are heard.__________________________________Music game, live music review, music pfp, ortho surgeon music, Kids music, food music, trucks with music, musical theatre dance, spotify music reviewer job, musical chairs alone, beats review, beats fit pro review, beating cancers, stepping on the beat, beating teapot, Mhm beat tutorial, garageband beats, Beats Studio Review, Beats pro, sstepteam beat, Beats, what is hip hop, Hip hop kids, ballerina doing hip hop, hip hop freestyle, hip hop boat in cabo, Beats pro, hip hop class, hip hop dances to learn, lsu hip hop. Upload your beats www.beatclubpodcast.com | #whereproducersareheardFind out about our next LIVE episode by following us on https://www.instagram.com/beatclubpodcastSubscribe & watch exclusive clips on our Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@BeatClubPodcastAnd don't forget to follow our hosts on social media:@Doitallloopz | @MotivateMerren | @Trenchgotgame

From the creators of The Stew Beat Showcase comes the Beat Club Podcast, the #1 destination for beatmakers, producers, and music lovers worldwide. Each Sunday, Dee Loopz< Motivate Merren and Trench Got Game bring you unfiltered conversations, live beat critiques, and the energy of a global producer community.Whether it's Keep It or Cut It, beat battles for Beat of the Week, or spotlighting hidden gems from producers across the globe, the Beat Club Podcast gives you real feedback, industry insights, and plenty of laughs along the way. Expect everything from boom bap to trap, drill to R&B, and everything in between—this is where creativity lives.✅ Upload your beats at BeatClubPodcast.com for a chance to be heard.✅ Join the conversation with producers on Instagram & Twitter: @BeatClubPodcast.✅ Network with creators in our private Facebook group: Stew Beat Club.If you're a music producer, beatmaker, or hip-hop fan looking for inspiration, critiques, and a platform that champions raw talent, you've found your home. Tune in, turn up, and be part of the movement—because this is the Beat Club Podcast, where producers are heard.__________________________________Music game, live music review, music pfp, ortho surgeon music, Kids music, food music, trucks with music, musical theatre dance, spotify music reviewer job, musical chairs alone, beats review, beats fit pro review, beating cancers, stepping on the beat, beating teapot, Mhm beat tutorial, garageband beats, Beats Studio Review, Beats pro, sstepteam beat, Beats, what is hip hop, Hip hop kids, ballerina doing hip hop, hip hop freestyle, hip hop boat in cabo, Beats pro, hip hop class, hip hop dances to learn, lsu hip hop. Upload your beats www.beatclubpodcast.com | #whereproducersareheardFind out about our next LIVE episode by following us on https://www.instagram.com/beatclubpodcastSubscribe & watch exclusive clips on our Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@BeatClubPodcastAnd don't forget to follow our hosts on social media:@Doitallloopz | @MotivateMerren | @Trenchgotgame

From the creators of The Stew Beat Showcase comes the Beat Club Podcast, the #1 destination for beatmakers, producers, and music lovers worldwide. Each Sunday, Dee Loopz< Motivate Merren and Trench Got Game bring you unfiltered conversations, live beat critiques, and the energy of a global producer community.Whether it's Keep It or Cut It, beat battles for Beat of the Week, or spotlighting hidden gems from producers across the globe, the Beat Club Podcast gives you real feedback, industry insights, and plenty of laughs along the way. Expect everything from boom bap to trap, drill to R&B, and everything in between—this is where creativity lives.✅ Upload your beats at BeatClubPodcast.com for a chance to be heard.✅ Join the conversation with producers on Instagram & Twitter: @BeatClubPodcast.✅ Network with creators in our private Facebook group: Stew Beat Club.If you're a music producer, beatmaker, or hip-hop fan looking for inspiration, critiques, and a platform that champions raw talent, you've found your home. Tune in, turn up, and be part of the movement—because this is the Beat Club Podcast, where producers are heard.__________________________________Music game, live music review, music pfp, ortho surgeon music, Kids music, food music, trucks with music, musical theatre dance, spotify music reviewer job, musical chairs alone, beats review, beats fit pro review, beating cancers, stepping on the beat, beating teapot, Mhm beat tutorial, garageband beats, Beats Studio Review, Beats pro, sstepteam beat, Beats, what is hip hop, Hip hop kids, ballerina doing hip hop, hip hop freestyle, hip hop boat in cabo, Beats pro, hip hop class, hip hop dances to learn, lsu hip hop. Upload your beats www.beatclubpodcast.com | #whereproducersareheardFind out about our next LIVE episode by following us on https://www.instagram.com/beatclubpodcastSubscribe & watch exclusive clips on our Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@BeatClubPodcastAnd don't forget to follow our hosts on social media:@Doitallloopz | @MotivateMerren | @Trenchgotgame

Happy Friday! This week we talk with Michelle Lazor of the Christian Family book sale site Mud Hen Mama! Join us as we chat about what our families need to fight the good fight. Look at the MHM website for trusted resources! And share this resource with your church, Christian school, or homeschool co-op! LINKS Check out Mud Hen Mama's main site Use code CARPE FIDE for 10% off your book purchase! Check out through this link and we receive a small kickback from your purchase! We have RELAUNCHED our store! New shirts, colorways, and shipping options are YOURS for the taking (well, buying really, but you know what I'm talking about...) Head to carpefide.com/shop today to grab your new gear! Visit offgridwarehouse.com and use code CF10 for 10% off your offgrid order!! LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, REVIEW! This year we're making an effort to grow our podcast without being cringey. That said, some cringe must happen, and that's happening now. Please head over to iTunes to leave a rating and a comment, subscribe to us on YouTube, and follow us on all the socials to keep up to date, and most of all, leave us some feedback and dialogue with us. You can also drop us a line at hello@carpefide.com We love hearing from you guys!

Y'all…you are sick and we hope you never get well.This week we wanted to highlight some of our favorite moments from people's princess and Emmy award winning writer Guy Branum, people's princess and star of stage and Twitch stream Alice Wetterlund, and people's menace and certified snack Ronald Young, Jr. Honorable mention and pre-emptive RIP to Meagan's Emo-Meter

In this episode of HHH, Anthonee Yim returns to share his powerful journey of qualifying for the CrossFit Games for the first time. Over the past year, Anthony transitioned from juggling a full-time job in California to moving across the country and joining Proven Fitness in Tennessee. He talks about the sacrifices of leaving his family and sunny SoCal, the demands of elite training, and the mental resilience it takes to perform at the highest level. From nutrition and attention to detail to redefining success, Anthony's story is packed with lessons for athletes and everyday people chasing big goals.

Weapons Kids are creepy right? We can all agree on that? Well, you know whats even creepier? When there are meant to be kids and they aren’t there. Or even worse… there’s just one. Weapons is the new horror from Zach Cregger starring Julia Garner, Josh Brolin and Alden Ehrenreich, whose first break out hit Barbarian scared the hell out of us… and guess what? It’s got a whole bunch of creepy not-there kids! But is it actually good? Or is this just a bunch of kids “naruto running” towards oblivion? Dion, Jill and Quinny are all in or this review, with Quinny being the only one who hasn’t been traumatised by Barbarian yet. Synopsis When all but one child from the same classroom mysteriously vanish on the same night at exactly the same time, a community is left questioning who or what is behind their disappearance. https://youtu.be/Mw57elDUcdQ As always, a midnight thank-you to all you crazy kids join in with the conversation on the Twitch stream, live each Tuesday night at 7:30pm AEDT. And an especially huge thanks to any of you naruto running grade schoolers who are kind enough to support us by casting a tip into our jar via Ko-Fi, or subscribing on twitch… every bit helps us to keep the lights on… because we’re scared of the dark. If you feel so inclined drop us a sub we really love them, The more subby mc-sub-faces we get, the more Emotes You get! https://youtu.be/OpThntO9ixc?si=_x20ryvp1bDvS9Mx WE WANT YOUR FEEDBACK! Send in voicemails or emails with your opinions on this show (or any others) to info@theperiodictableofawesome.com Please make sure to join our social networks too!  We're on: Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TPToA/ Twitter: www.twitter.com/TPToA Facebook: www.facebook.com/PeriodicTableOfAwesome Instagram: www.instagram.com/theperiodictableofawesome/ Full text transcript Dion  Oh, well, hello and welcome to the periodic table of awesome. I’m unsure of who I am at the moment. I could be a weapon, I’m not sure. But you know who I know is absolutely a weapon. Jill. Jill is absolutely a weapon.  Quinny  Look at those ******* guns. Boom.  Dion  And and Quinny is potentially a weapon.  Quinny  Look, I I had to register my entire body as deadly weapon as, as, as legally one is bound to when one is as hard as ******* as I.  Jill  Make a gun.  Dion  Am I was actually going to say if you. If you commit to it quinny, if you if you, if you you put yourself on a regime, if you go to the gym, you could build yourself into a weapon. And.  Quinny  Buddy, I I am a weapon. It’s just like I’m a 10 LB ******* gun. I’m like, you know, you you you’re thinking of like a a fast kind of swishy weapon. I’m more like a like a a fat man bomb that gets dropped off, you know.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Quinny  So technically, still the weapon.  Dion  I wasn’t gonna. I wasn’t gonna go there.  Quinny  Yeah, well, I know. And as telling us, there’s better being a weapon than being a tool. What are you?  Dion  Yeah, yeah. Now you’re a ******. Don’t don’t tism me. This is that will go down a rabbit hole. We’re not going to do it. Yes. OK. Weapons. We went and.  Quinny  I know, right?  Dion  Saw weapons. We did, we.  Quinny  Can’t get a water bomb is a weapon too.  Dion  All of that what is a weapon? Yeah.  Quinny  Is that my physique? Is that what? Speaker 7  We’re saying no.  Dion  Philosophically. OK, so story time now. A while back, Jill and I went and saw a.  Jill  Little film we trauma bonded over, but Marion.  Dion  Yeah, we trailer bond, we weren’t. We didn’t know what was going on. We weren’t. It was like, ohh this film. It’s called barbarian. OK, whatever. We’ll go do that. And they were good. They gave us some alcohol. I’m like, oh, yeah. Let’s get on this and started watching a film. And then. Don’t know, maybe. 3045 minutes into it, we started going wait, where the **** is this going? And and it just proceeded to get even ******* more terrifying and crazy all the way to the end. And then we walked out going. That was ******* cool.  Jill  Yes, it was ****** **, but it was cool.  Dion  Yeah, it was.  Speaker  Quinny  You’re not normally a huge horror fan. No, but like you, you will watch it. If it’s in front of.  Dion  I mean, you know, like I’m not the sort of person who’s like, oh, is it gory and horror, sure. Or go and laugh. I’m just more like, I don’t really need to see that. It has to be a good horror, elevated horror. Elevated horror is a discerning horror. Which, you know, like the traditional stuff like nightmare on Elm Street, you know and.  Quinny  13th.  Dion  Friday 13th and I don’t really go into. I don’t need to see Gore for the sake of gore.  Jill  Those are like a sub genre though those are.  Dion  Yeah, yeah. And slasher. Yeah. And but a good.  Speaker 6  Slasher films, yeah.  Quinny  Horror. Torture. ****. Not it’s like, you know, that kind of stuff where it’s just watching people be.  Dion  Nice.  Jill  Like so.  Quinny  Exactly.  Dion  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like all that kind of stuff can kind of get a bit confused in. But you know, I can’t say I’m a fan of it because, you know, given the choice, I’m not sure that I’d go and see barbarian or weapons again in that kind of sense. But was it a good film? Yeah.  Speaker  But.  Dion  You know, it was just that way that it kind of went through. So sure, I’m not a huge horror fan. Jill. Jill though. Yeah, she yeah loves it. Except for.  Jill  You love it. Clowns. No, no, it I’ll never watch it.  Dion  Yeah. So. It.  Quinny  Ohh, but you’re you’re not looking forward to welcome. To Derry then.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Quinny  The the prequel to it.  Jill  Good, because I would have thought it was something to do with dairy.  Dion  Yeah.  Speaker 8  Girls and I would have gone and seen it. And I would have been very upset.  Quinny  Why would you would have? It’s a TV series coming out soon and I’m actually really pumped. I’ve.  Speaker 6  Yeah, no.  Quinny  It was one of those books that ******* creeped this **** out of me as a kid and you know, I’m like, yeah.  Dion  Sure.  Jill  I couldn’t stare at a drain for a very long time because my father would say ohh it lives in the trees and it’s little children. So here I am in the shower, not making eye contact.  Dion  Sure.  Speaker 6  Yeah, yeah.  Jill  With the brain.  Dion  With the train.  Jill  Thinking it was any kind of drain that this ******* clown lived in.  Dion  Which which technically it did. So it does live in every drain and it is a clown.  Jill  Yeah. Yeah. And I’m like, don’t look down there cause you’ll see something staring back and. I was *******. He’s terrified.  Quinny  Hi, Georgie.  Dion  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if if I go down that rabbit hole, I could still easily terrify the **** out of myself.  Quinny  Yep.  Dion  Yes, so.  Jill  I do kind of tend to watch horror as a form of. Therapy. Because I’m in a constant state of fight or.  Speaker 8  Flight with anxiety and if.  Jill  I were to ah. Film. Then I I know that that is something that I can’t control and it’s I just have to go along for the ride. So I just kind of like purges the fright.  Dion  Sure. I mean it’s.  Quinny  Out and also. Yeah, it gives you that, that, that moment of tension and then release, whereas having a life of anxiety means there’s no release. Yeah, exactly.  Speaker 6  Yes.  Quinny  Just tension. Constant ******* ongoing tension.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that totally.  Dion  Quinny, do you consider yourself a fan of horror?  Quinny  As a kid, **** no. Like I was terrified of anything that looked even remotely like horror, you know, like, even seeing a cover of a VHS of something like extra or fright night or something like that was enough to make me, you know. You have nightmares for ages, so it took me a really long time till I ever went anything near horror and I came to horror through so if I.  Dion  Sure.  Quinny  So right, you know, the first horror that I watched was aliens. And yeah, because that wasn’t really a horror. That was, you know, an action film that had horror elements.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Quinny  Then I went back and rewatched or watched alien and was scared ********. But then I started to kind of get into it. No invasion of the body snatchers and. Like that and now I have a thing that I’m not in a huge rush to go and watch a horror.  Speaker 6  Sure. Yeah.  Quinny  But I will watch a good one.  Dion  And so back to this whole sort of story when weapons came out and it’s by Zach Krieger, who Jill and I have had the Zach Cregger experience with barbarian. And while we were like, this is gonna be like I I remember I was looking at.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Speaker  We have.  Dion  Oh great. Ohh wait. OK. Like I’ll go see what this is, but I knew what I was going into. The funniest thing was watching it with Quinn, who had not. Had this experience at. All just going. What the **** I’m like, yeah.  Quinny  No. That’s in fact there. There are multiple times in the film where characters exclaim loudly what the ****? Sure, and I agree wholeheartedly with them.  Jill  Yeah.  Dion  Because there is a part of this where I feel like weapons is communicating with the audio. Once in a really interesting way and it doesn’t spoil anything. I just feel like there are parts of the movie and beats of the story and things that are going where it the the film makers are communicating with the audience going. We’ve just shown you a bunch of ****** ** **** and we’ve had a character on screen and saying what the **** and the whole audience is like. Yeah, what the ****?  Quinny  Yeah, yeah.  Dion  And it really it was an interesting as you were saying, the release of tension and I felt like that came through at the end too where it. Diverged a little bit, but allowed the audience to have that tension released, which has been built up for the whole thing, so I consider this one not particularly a horror, but it is. Let’s be honest. Yeah, it is. Yeah.  Jill  Ohh it is.  Dion  But it is.  Quinny  It’s it’s a proper horror, but you know.  Dion  It’s a it’s a really good tension film.  Jill  Yeah, Arena asked. Is it more of a thriller? But I would say no, it’s definitely.  Speaker 6  And.  Dion  No, no.  Jill  Not not thriller.  Dion  No, because and the horror.  Quinny  It. It does good tension building and it is it has that kind of thriller kind of thing, but no, it’s very definitely.  Dion  Yeah.  Speaker 6  Yes.  Dion  Yeah, as you say, like, oh, I’m not going with jump scares. I’m like, well, maybe this is not for you.  Quinny  In fact, this has moments that are not jump scares, but like there are there are some of the most effective moments of like, skin crawling horror that I have seen in a long time, and hearing a whole.  Dion  Horror. Just dread. That contained no.  Quinny  Audience yeah, react to them and ohh wow.  Dion  With like and they have no blood. It’s just really good ******* creepy ****.  Speaker 1  Yeah, and like.  Dion  That you’re waiting for something.  Jill  I I love all of that stuff. And when one of. The big jump scares happened and I screamed.  Dion  He did.  Speaker  It was great.  Quinny  A big way.  Dion  Yeah, and. And look, let’s be honest, we all knew it was coming. Like that’s one of the great things when you still have that result like ohh ****. Even though I knew it was coming.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Jill  Yes. Yeah. Like, I’m like, oh, my God, I know this is coming. And then it did. And then I screamed. And I’m like, I haven’t screamed and. It jumps Gary and ages. Yeah. So it was it. Was a good pay off do do you wanna know?  Dion  And the.  Quinny  What the film’s actually about? No, no.  Dion  Not yet. One one second, one second. Can I, can I ask you one question because I don’t actually have any music and you’ve caught me off guard.  Quinny  I think. It. Yeah.  Dion  The last movie that I saw that did the same kind of thing that I really actually didn’t enjoy was smile too. Ohh yeah yeah. So watched that. Yeah, and I mean.  Jill  Never.  Quinny  Ohh you should get into that Joe.  Jill  Yeah, it’s on, it’s on telly. I’ll watch it, yeah.  Quinny  Yeah. That for the for the discomforting side of it, Dee or the.  Dion  No, the the way that it like, I mean smile, which I haven’t seen and I saw smile to going in blind which is a bit funny but I understood the craft and I thought they did it really well but they jump scares became a point where it was. Just this is the building to a jump scare. Whereas I liked weapons more because it was like is it a jump scare? Maybe you know? And it was some sort of smarter done and then sometimes was like, hey, it’s not a jump scare. It’s just something absolutely ******* terrifying that doesn’t really do it. Yeah, it’s it’s. And it’s not about some. That is terrifying. It’s the idea of it is built and constructed in such a great way that the audience is filling in their brain about how terrifying and what bad things could happen, and then it doesn’t really happen that way. It just puts the the situation goes, hey, how would you react to this situation? And everyone in the audience is going *******. No, I don’t want to be in that situation. I don’t want. To do this, I want to leave. Anyway.  Quinny  Absolutely. OK.  Dion  Sorry, synopsis time. Do you know what I’ve got? I’ve got on the boards for the music to go behind. It is stuff.  Quinny  I don’t know.  Dion  From Kpop Demon Hunter. So do you want that? Why not? We haven’t had enough.  Speaker 6  No.  Quinny  Why? No, I mean, hey, by the way, the the golden from K pop demon hunters went to number one of the Billboard charts today. Wow.  Dion  Excellent. Hear it again.  Speaker 7  Yeah, well, let’s go with.  Quinny  We’re just increasing its plays.  Dion  Sure.  Quinny  Jill  You’re gonna give us, like a Anna Delphi.  Quinny  Ohh but I can because you’re a poor.  Dion  Yes, do it.  Quinny  OK, when all but one child from the same classroom mysteriously vanish on the same night at exactly the same time because they’re porous.  Speaker 7  Right.  Quinny  A community is left questioning who or what is behind the disappearances. Sorry that just turned into the chick from SBS.  Speaker 8  This is going.  Jill  I was like, it’s like Christoph Waltz and Christopher Walken met Christoph Walton.  Quinny  First off. I apologize. I apologize to everybody that was, that was the absolute peak of **** accent.  Speaker  Yeah.  Jill  Wait, was that the whole boxes?  Quinny  Yeah. When all but one child from the same club, I can.  Speaker  Oh.  Quinny  Do a slightly longer. 1 So it’s a a horror film about a community grappling with the disappearance of 17 children from the same class, all vanishing at the same time on the same. Night and it follows. The aftermath, exploring things of trauma, grief, and the unsettling nature of the events of the townspeople, tried to understand. What happened and who is responsible?  Dion  Double s in officers. OK, one of them was backed by K pop and the other was. Just a flat scare. So. OK, yeah, good.  Quinny  Sorry.  Dion  Good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good so.  Quinny  Right. Yeah. That’s how we should do it. That’s that’s how we work there. Yes. And there was a little gesture.  Dion  Now very.  Quinny  In there I’m.  Dion  Sorry, very, very, very importantly, there was a notice in front of the screening. Which was, hey, don’t spoil it for people where people go in and I thought, OK, it’s a bit naff. Let the thing stand on its own. You know, there’s no need to go through it. But it went on upon reflection.  Speaker 8  Yes.  Dion  Having it’s it’s been out for a while now. I actually kind of go. Yeah, I don’t. Really want to. Do a big spoil because not that I think you’d lose anything from it. I just think it’s a more interesting film to not know. Sort of the last third going into it, I think it has a better effect, not not giving a **** about it. Like, don’t really listen. To. People reviewing it and and spoiling stuff because. You kind of lose.  Jill  It. Yeah, I mean, the trailer was enough and then kind of like discovering what is actually going on is I think lends more to the suspense and and keeps it interesting.  Dion  Yeah.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, I do want to talk like a little bit structurally about what happens at the end of the film, but I don’t want to talk about.  Jill  Oh yeah. OK.  Quinny  The the the facts of it like you know. But anyway, let’s not talk about that bit. Let’s talk about the beginning of the film. So a base concept, a bunch of kids run away one night. But it’s not just that they run away.  Speaker 7  Yeah.  Quinny  They Naruto runner.  Jill  Naruto run, they’re going to storm area 51. Yeah, at 2:17 in the morning? Absolutely.  Dion  At 2:17 and it’s all through grainy camera footage. And I love the little child like voice, voice over narration of, like, this is a true story. This is the stuff that happened and blah blah blah and I’m like.  Speaker 7  Which is.  Jill  Yeah, it gives it a little bit of found footage vibe.  Dion  Bit Nash.  Jill  Which is yeah. It’s like a bit creepy.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, this this does that whole found footage and like, different cameras and stuff like that. So much better than that war of. The world’s ********.  Dion  ****, don’t. Don’t even. It’s it’s an interesting one too, because what I really like about it is it is. It is an easy to understand story. It’s set in suburban Americana. Sort of. There is something creepy going on in a space that generally wouldn’t be considered creepy, and I think you did it also in barbarian like and I and I really enjoy that. It doesn’t necessarily need. Rich people, poor people. It’s not about, you know, X&Y. It’s like, look, this weird thing happened. Hmm, that has probably been going on for a long time. In this and everyone is unsettled by it, but in the end. Life will keep going. And I really, I really like they explained at the start, they’re like ohh this really strange thing and in the end everyone just sort of accepted it. And moved on because it was too upsetting for people and I really like that it gave it a good basis and a good foundation to sort of settle in and go, OK what the?  Quinny  **** did happen but, but also it it does that that very smart thing of going OK how do people in you know, small towns react to bad things happening? They’ll turn.  Dion  You know clue.  Speaker 7  Insect.  Quinny  And and the the most obvious person to turn on is the the the school teacher. So if every kid from the class Bar 1. You know doesn’t show up who’s the first thing you’re gonna look at the school teacher. You’re gonna ask questions there.  Jill  See, I’m the opposite. I’m like, why is this one? Kid left on, yeah.  Quinny  Oh yeah, 100 percent, 100%.  Jill  What’s going on with this kid?  Quinny  And the the the good thing is they actually show you like they they interview the kid, they do a lot of like they go to great lengths to really show you that due diligence has been done. Yeah. You know, and this is just there is no answer. It’s just ******* weird.  Jill  Yeah, it’s it’s puzzling.  Dion  And and like I love that they used quite well in this, like the vignette sort of style, the way they chop it up and they follow, you know, you get introduced to kind of some of the characters and then you get like as you get introduced to more, it starts replaying their stories. And I like the way that they use that quite effectively, which is like here’s. This person, and this is their story. And then we’ll follow someone else and it overlaps and it overlaps and it overlaps until you finally get to the.  Jill  Yeah. And chill, there’s a point where it’s like, hang on a second. Something really *******.  Dion  Yeah.  Jill  Weird’s going on?  Dion  And until it gets to the point where it’s like, OK, we’ve given you enough back story about how all these things are kind of overlapping and then we’re just gonna follow this one. And explain exactly what happened and you were like by that time you’re like ohh ****. Like, how do you resolve this? What the **** did happen?  Quinny  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah, it was a good point to reveal it as well because like, it was a very kind of slow burn intro to the movie. And I was like, ohh, where is this going like?  Dion  Yeah.  Jill  It’s maybe, yeah, becoming a little bit dull until like you do get that pivot point and it’s like, ohh ****. OK now strap in, cause I’m ready for.  Dion  So.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, yeah. She’s gotten real ****** **. Yeah, it it’s interesting because I was watching it and my immediate thought was the film rush him on, which is the one where they they tell the same story, but from different perspectives. And you see the way that interacts. It’s like that. But it it’s sort of.  Jill  The rest of it.  Speaker  Hmm.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  Just showing you different parts, but then continuing the story on. Yeah, which I thought was really smart.  Jill  And thank God you you made the cultural reference and didn’t go with like Pulp Fiction.  Quinny  Sure. Well, you know, because I’ve all filmically ******* knowledgeable.  Dion  I mean, look, you know.  Jill  It was like, where did that reference come from? Russian.  Dion  Barbarian great one much shorter like Barbarians. Only 100 minutes. Yeah, right. This one’s 128 minutes. So we got almost an extra half hour of, you know, additional weirdness, which I think was deserved in this. Like I really like the pacing and the punch of barbarian because it just kind of like starts off real slow and then starts hammering through this one. Get it? Has the same sort of thing. It starts off real slow, but it gives you time to build that tension. And then I think at the end, a little bit more. Time like. When you start explaining things. I thought it would move a little bit quicker, but I have to admit by the end of it I was like, Oh no, I’m fine with how you. Decided you wanted to go with this and by the time you get to that big turn or the big understanding about what is going on, which I say is like 2/3 of the way. Through the film. It does delve into stuff where I’m like, is this funny? Is this not funny? But also, how are you gonna resolve this? And the only way to do it is. Kind of with a little bit of ridiculousness. But I thought it. Was it served it quite well?  Quinny  I think the thing that worked for me about it was the way the characters each sort of had their their very clear part of the story. 3 and when it intersects with one particular place, that’s where **** starts to go badly wrong for everyone you know you’re you’re trying to. Everybody’s trying to work out. Something and they’ve all got their their challenges. So you’ve you’ve got our our Julia Garner. Who’s been Justine, who obviously school teacher Josh Brolin is the dad of one of the. Benedict Wong is one of the the principal principal of the the school. Alden Ehrenreich is one of the cops, and Austin Abrams is is a a junkie for I mean, for lack of any better description.  Jill  He’s.  Dion  Just cop.  Quinny  And each of them.  Speaker 6  They’ve.  Quinny  Their their thing, their story, their interaction, yeah.  Speaker 7  Sure.  Jill  And each of their encounters with what is going on. And so you kind of get their perspective on. Ohh man, how do we trying?  Speaker 8  It’s hard not to spoil it, but.  Dion  Isn’t it you? You get there? It’s, it’s. Yeah, they they put out like, I mean the the, the film posits a strange occurrence, and then all of these different people come into it at different ways, like their their approach that they’re in, they’re affected by it in different ways. And the way that they approach it is. All 100% what everyone knew and I would do like. Yeah, there are no, there is no stupid situation. I have to admit there’s nothing stupid about each of these characters and decisions they’re making along the way. It’s just that there is something else affecting them and we as the audience know that there is something real bad. Happening and we can’t stop them, even though within their characters like, you know, the problem with horror and like that kind of stuff. You’re like, don’t go into there. That’s stupid. You never do that. Stop splitting. Up. I don’t think there’s one character in this that makes a dumb.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Dion  Every single character is like. This is weird. But I need to find the kids. And I’m just going to do something that’s seemingly innocuous but suddenly ends up in a world. Of hurt. Like and, that’s what I thought was great about it. Isn’t one of those things like watch out for the slash? Are they going to get you? It’s like, no, they don’t know they’re. Going to be gotten. Because they’re doing something really boring, like going to a house. In the middle of the day, yeah. And then, you know, bad **** happens not because they made a dumb decision, because something else is affecting them.  Quinny  Yes. Yeah, it’s, it’s smart and it doesn’t treat its audiences in any way stupid. Yeah, it takes some weird turns. Ohh.  Dion  100%.  Quinny  Like, yeah, there’s, I don’t know whether we talk about it afterwards or what, but there’s stuff to in the last act that I was just like, what the ****? And it really there was in some very strange directions. But up until that point, you’ve also had a bunch of pretty ******* weird moments. And there’s a point where.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Like you said, Joe, it’s gone fairly slowly for a while. Yeah. And then there’s a point. Where it just suddenly ramps up and it’s no longer creeping dread. Now it’s running ******* screaming, running, screaming, terrifying.  Jill  Naruto running.  Quinny  This is ******** terror.  Dion  And. Look, I I. Liked it because they set everyone up as an unreliable narrator or character, but everyone is in is is unreliable in this you immediately start following Justine, who’s the school teacher, and they go to great lengths to explain why. Maybe she.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Speaker  It.  Dion  You know, and they do all of that like maybe the father, like is Josh Brolin’s character is maybe he’s got something to do with it because he seems. Overly crazy at certain points of time, but. Ultimately it’s it’s it’s very sane reactions to a very insane situation, and I think that was the success of how it worked.  Speaker 6  For me, does that make sense? Yeah. Here’s one roll. Sorry.  Dion  Hmm, also shot beautifully. Also shot. Beautifully.  Quinny  Shot beautifully and a lot of it in the very, very, very dark.  Dion  But that’s what worked, man.  Quinny  Absolutely. Like there are a lot of sequences moving around through dark houses and at night and stuff like that, which you know is one of those great tropes of all things horror. I do remember watching something recently only in the last couple of years where I was blown away that they did a horror, but in full daylight.  Jill  Oh, OK.  Quinny  And I’m bugged if I remember what it was, but it it it really impressed me that they managed to do. In full light, this one does a bit of it here and then the really.  Speaker 7  The character I.  Quinny  Wanted to call out that I thought was really impressive. Was James the our junkie buddy, really?  Speaker 8  OK, well, I was impressive.  Quinny  His character, like in terms of performance wise. Not likable, not likable at all, but the energy that he came at that with.  Speaker  No.  Quinny  Like the the really nervous ****** ** energy and the like. The complete sort of. Unreliability of the character I was like ****, that’s a really good performance. I don’t like the guy. I don’t like him at all, but that’s cause it’s a really good performance.  Speaker 8  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah, that’s true.  Dion  You know? Yeah. I mean, yeah, that was like, I mean, to be honest, halfway like by the time we got to that character, I didn’t know how they were going to make him scary because he is just a junkie. And they did do some pretty good, scary, scary scenes with that just really boring situation. Technically, when you look back at it after the jump scares and after everything has happened, you’re like ****. That was so tense. For something that was really boring.  Quinny  There is a sequence and I the possibly the sequence that the whole cinema reacted to the most.  Speaker  MHM.  Quinny  And. I don’t. It’s what I love about it and I’m not going to try and describe it because it it would be doing it a disservice to describe the sequence. But what I loved about it was that it was. Fear created almost purely through sound. Like there’s a visual element to it. Something that is this growing danger.  Dion  Yeah.  Quinny  But then the use of sound was the thing that made the whole audience go **** no. Like literally the guy behind me when you heard a particular sound that door open just went oh, no. Oh, no, no.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  No. And I heard.  Jill  The dream sequence.  Speaker 6  No, no, no. OK, it’s.  Dion  It’s this like this, like stalking sequence.  Quinny  In a car.  Speaker 7  Ohh.  Dion  Yeah. Yeah, right.  Speaker 7  Yep, Yep.  Dion  See this is this is what I’m talking about the the the ability to create tension based around very boring, very banal, very normal ****.  Speaker 6  Mm-hmm.  Dion  In this is great. By doing you know great things. I was like, great. It’s gonna be in the middle of night. It’s like 2:00 AM. She’s creepy anyway. Yeah. And now we’re going to make this creepier by, you know, making it sound like there aren’t many sounds like you can hear things, but you don’t need to see it. Like, if you hear, don’t show.  Quinny  Yeah.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  It can be very creepy and I like that too when there are inside certain other houses and they’re doing the low light stuff that you kind of do.  Jill  Not just sound, but like lack of sound.  Dion  And yeah, lack of sound is a great. A great way to do that.  Jill  I think one of my favorite sequences was the dream sequence of Josh Brolin’s character because it was shot from like first person perspective. So really felt like a dream. And because it was like, you know, semi dark and like the cameras turning as if like. A person is walking through a house and you know doors are opening, but you’re not seeing it because it’s as if you’re doing it. Was absolutely terrifying because there’s like. If anybody has ever had a nightmare where, like you can’t control what’s going on and you’re like, fighting with yourself to even accomplish something within the dream, it felt just like that and that. Was that was. Really incredible bit of movie making, I thought.  Quinny  And and the the every time you round a corner or whatever, you’re expecting something to. Be there to to, you know, wanna hurt you or whatever. Cause you know vaguely where what we’re kind of doing here. We’re in horror territory. Yeah, but.  Dion  Yeah, yeah. And on top of that, I also love the the interesting ability here to allow the audience to really use their imagination while they’re watching this because.  Speaker 6  Mm-hmm.  Dion  Setting up a camera. Like we we had in the end of the trailer there or not at the end of the trailer, but like there’s scenes of like an open doorway, it’s pitch black. You can’t really see anything inside, but can you because your mind starts to fill things in?  Speaker 8  Yeah, I know. Cause it felt. It’s exactly like nightmares that I have where you’re like you’re looking and you’re looking. And it’s like you’re trying to make out something and it’s like is that.  Dion  Exactly.  Speaker 8  Something? Or is it just like?  Dion  Is it a shape? Is it a shape in the room or is it just your? Your chair group has come alive, or those those other ones, so I thought was really good, which is moving around the house and everything is normal and fine. But wait.  Speaker  Yeah, my God.  Dion  What is that like when you when your brain finally kicks in and goes, that’s not actually supposed to be there. That is not what you expect in that sort of thing. And you have to come back to it and you realize ****.  Speaker 6  Mm-hmm.  Dion  That’s terrifying. Like, these are the successful things about it, which is why I really hated watching it. But I enjoyed the. **** out of. The movie, like it was just fun and it was really fun. It, like really, as I said, it was really fun taking quinny along. So I recommend someone take someone who hasn’t seen their **** before.  Jill  Hey.  Dion  Hey, sorry Jill.  Jill  Yay on the titz off scale.  Dion  Yes, titz off none left **** all gone flying everywhere.  Jill  None left. That’s a big fat 0 on. The **** off scale.  Dion  They, they they, they were like, you know, Shinkansen hanging out the window. ****, they’re just gone.  Quinny  Love that we both.  Speaker 7  Had the same age. I love that they’re.  Dion  Connected though. I just thought that they’re like.  Quinny  Well, they connected for a while and then they go. Right. I I don’t know how many tips are off for me because I was scared titless.  Speaker 8  Ah, well, there you go. That’s zero as well.  Quinny  Yeah.  Speaker 7  Yeah, like.  Jill  I don’t know, just like in the last couple of movies that I’ve seen this month, I’ve just have not had. A reaction like I did. With this one MMM.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and you, you come out of it with a very distinct sense of man. I’ve watched something. Yeah, like. You know, it wasn’t safe. It wasn’t normal. It it. It didn’t feel like just your average ******* horror. Like, oh, God. What was that movie we watched a couple of years back for? None. Like, based on The Conjuring thing.  Speaker 8  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  And it was just like, yeah, it’s a horror film. Yes. There’s a spooky nun. Cool. Like, in some ways, smile was a little bit like that, though I did find it was creepy as ****. But this, I don’t know, this was doing something different. This was really going into a different level of. Scary.  Dion  I I feel like collectively. Everyone was like in the film that I was sitting there going. And yes and. Everyone just kind of decided not to talk about it anymore, cause too many people died and it was too freaky. And I’m like, yes, kind of like barbarian. Kind of like weapons. We’ve watched it now and ****, you know, a lot of stuff happened and things are good, but like. Just collectively not gonna watch it again. Or not gonna talk about it because you’re still processing stuff about it. Umm. Yeah. Anyway, look. But also, you know, I can see why some people were unhappy with it.  Quinny  What? Where do you think? It didn’t work.  Dion  It’s interesting because, well, I don’t think it it’s. I can see how some people were a bit unhappy with it because they might have wanted to go more into the slasher horror kind of stuff at the end because I feel like there was the turn that happens and it goes into more explanations. You don’t really understand.  Speaker  Oh.  Dion  Exactly what’s going on, but came to me. It became more comedy and I was like ohh, I’m getting this now. You just have to go with it and you know the ending isn’t as satisfying. I think that some people were really after because it has no resolution for the characters. But. You know, I feel like after the tension of the 1st. Aaron, Aaron. A bit. I was like, I’m happy for it to just help me relieve the tension.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  Yeah. And also, you know, people could be sitting there going. Ohh, I didn’t. You know, everyone thought it was great, but I didn’t like it. Like, yeah, OK, I did.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  It was fun.  Quinny  I’d I’d like predicate because thing I went in after hearing a ton of fat, and though I enjoyed it, I’m still firmly bitted.  Dion  Still, yeah, sure.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I can see why. So there is a massive tonal turn. Like. Yeah, and there’s a point where, like it goes. We’ve already talked about where it ramps up, the action, kind of the the like, the threat becomes a lot higher. Mm-hmm. But then there’s another point a little bit later on where it takes a fairly sharp left turn. Into what could be seen as comedy.  Dion  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah. I mean, I think it’s a comedic moment, but it kind of like washes all of the drama and the the evil away and kind of leaves you with. OK, this was a really ****** ** situation and you know a number of horrific things happened, but by the end of it, we’re all able. To walk away. Like and put the situation behind us and I think. If it hadn’t have ended, you know very finally like the way it did. Then it kind of leaves you open to explore that situation maybe happening again. So I think like, yeah, I think I feel like the comedic twist of the ending. Was to relieve all of the tension that we built throughout the whole movie.  Quinny  Absolutely now.  Jill  But to do it in a way that wasn’t necessarily with a scare.  Quinny  Yeah, though I I would say that they I felt like we started to get elements of comedy earlier. Ohh, OK. Like essentially when we’re introduced to one of the characters that we haven’t talked about that does. Kind of push the film into a different space. It goes from being kind of. Of. This uncertainty about what? Is happening too. Suddenly there is a. Focus for it. And the focus is. Or could be. Are let down 4 people and I. Yeah. So I had that that moment where I was like that’s that’s a weird ******* choice and I’m still creeped out. But yeah.  Dion  Should.  Jill  I I’ll stand by that choice because I think it was. It’s a good way to catch you unawares.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, very true. Very, very.  Dion  True. So, Jill while. Try and find your **** to. Reattach them.  Speaker  Shouldn’t.  Quinny  Somewhere in the fields of Japan and all. Through the.  Dion  Quinnie, do you have a rating for for weapons?  Speaker 7  Yeah.  Quinny  Oh yes, that’s a good question. OK, I’m going to go.  Speaker 6  Adding.  Quinny  I was genuinely creeped out by most of the film, and I think it works. Incredibly well as a. Really. Proper, good, scary ******* horror. Your your mileage is going to vary as to whether or not the last bit like the the last. From a certain point onwards, works for you. For me, it did kind of make me go. Huh. But it still kept the tension pretty high. So yeah, that’s where I’m at. It’s 84. If you’ve got a number, drop it. Dion  Jewel. Right.  Quinny  In that chat. I look for them.  Dion  I was going to go 85. Ah, but I’m not. I’m gonna go 86 because I like round math. So, dude, Jill, you could totally frustrate me but.  Jill  Even number.  Dion  Getting an odd number.  Quinny  That prick dangers jumped to 93, so **** you.  Dion  Yeah.  Jill  Well, then I’ll bring it back and. I’ll, I’ll go. For a 91 so that we can.  Speaker 6  Oh ****.  Jill  Even it up.  Dion  All right.  Jill  We’re going to go 90, but because of the odd number, I’ll go 91 even it.  Dion  Yeah. Out again. Yeah, 86. I really. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was just, like, kind of watching barberry and like, what the **** is happening? But it’s really good. Can I recommend it to people? Yes, with, with, with ******* guard rails as in. You know, Peter didn’t come. That’s OK. She’s not going to see this. You know, she’s going to be like, Nope.  Quinny  Not the kind of thing that.  Dion  Beck’s gonna like. No, no, all of those kinds of things like it. It’s not for everyone. But I do think it’s great. So, yeah, that was my 86. And, Jill, you’ve already got not 91.  Speaker  No.  Jill  At 91, I I have a horror friend and I immediately went to her and said hey, I watched weapons and she said Ohh good, I’m going to go and see it on Friday. And then when she came back to me, she.  Speaker 8  Said what the ****? That was so good.  Jill  Like that ending was So what the ****? And I’m like, yeah, but it was great. And like, yeah, we were just, like, dissecting, you know, the way that they built tension and all that kind of stuff and the pay offs were were all really good. I got to say the creative.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Jill  Format for the storytelling was was great. I thought that was very inventive for like a horror film. Yeah, the.  Speaker 8  Anything that made me ******* scream, I’m like, yes. Big ticks so.  Quinny  Yeah, it takes a bit to actually get you to scream. I I heard you scream and I thought that wouldn’t have.  Jill  There were so many moments throughout the film where I actually had to stop eating and drinking because holding on to the chair and I’m like, crawling back into the chair, like with my arms crossed thinking Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God. And yeah, it it made me out loud scream, not just like shock. No, I screamed. And thank God it was like a loud. Tension release in the. Audio of the film as well to kind of cover up. The embarrassment of me screaming in a horror movie, but yeah.  Dion  And. I had the yeah.  Jill  Really thoroughly enjoyed.  Speaker  It.  Dion  I had The thing is like I I like weapons as a journey. Of a film. Like.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  I don’t think that there’s like there’s no point talking about A twist or a turn or this thing and this other what the **** I’m like. I like the journey of the film. Yeah, I mean.  Jill  I feel like you don’t get to have all of this fun in the end of the movie if you don’t put in the work at the start of getting through the build up.  Dion  Yeah. And by chopping it up and following.  Quinny  Yeah, you’ve gotta get to know the characters.  Dion  Yeah. And chopping up and following people with different experiencing not the same time from a different perspective, but also like different times at different perspectives. Once you understood the establishment of the character.  Jill  Yeah, but you kind of start to get little other pieces in within these people stories so that you can, like, try to build what’s happening before it’s just revealed to you in the movie. So like you as an audience are actually doing work in the film.  Dion  Yeah.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Quinny  Too. I like that. I really like the feeling that it was showing me things. But I wasn’t. Being spoon fed them exactly and there are certain things that they showed and implied, but never actually said. So you have to make the assumption that that character did that. They may not have, but did fairly heavily implied. I live with that. I love being asked as an audience to put a little bit of thought in.  Speaker 6  Yeah. MHM.  Dion  Crazy concept. Look, Speaking of James, I actually have a James Heavy trailer for this. Just goes on about that. We’ll do that and then come back and try not to spoil, but still talk about.  Speaker 7  Oh, OK.  Dion  It a bit more depth, OK.  Speaker  I’m calling about the $50,000 reward. For information about the missing kids. Because I know. Where they are. Filter. Help me. Help me. Come on. Please help me.  Dion  Oh yes, we. Yeah, that was James. He was the the junkie, and he had tent and a very bad experience in a tent.  Jill  Sure. Just sure, we’ve all had a bad experience in the tent.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah. Mine was really intense.  Dion  Ohh George yes, and thankfully for people who haven’t seen it. And you’re like, no.  Speaker  ah  Jill  You up for that one?  Dion  Thank you. I’m like, yeah, yeah, but. It’s a really it’s. It’s so good how it makes you go. ****. I don’t wanna know about that, but it gives you an understanding back when you like, I feel like. Having watched it and then you look at all of the tents and and spooky scenes that were through earlier in the movie, you’re like, ohh, that’s not that spooky when you really think about it. It was our own imagination making it spookier than we thought. But again, of course no like.  Speaker 7  No, sure.  Quinny  Like it’s scary.  Dion  Yeah.  Quinny  It’s it’s interesting, I think I said to you guys afterwards, I I thought we were going perhaps to go in a different direction with it. So there’s a there’s a Stephen King short story that I love super short, like, only like 5 or 6 pages or something like that called suffer the little children. It’s in one of his short story collections and it’s about a teacher. Who starts seeing out of the corner of their eyes their their primary school kids? As like little demons like you know that they’re they’re wrong. They’re twisted. There’s something ****** ** about them, but only out of the corner of their eyes. So when they turn and look at them.  Jill  Ohh, I see kids like that all the time.  Quinny  Yeah. So that’s just being a teacher. But then, yeah, one day teacher goes and 1 by 1 calls all the kids at her office. Cool. Yeah. And I thought maybe we were going to go into that direction and I was like, because that’s one. Of my favorite stories, but it’s still ****** **.  Dion  Yeah, the welcome to. The thing about the unreliable like characters that we’re we’re following here and like I think yes, Karina, I’m not. I don’t want to talk about the spoiler of the twists, that of why is it like, why is this all happening? Mainly because I don’t think it’s it. It doesn’t do anything to give you. A reason to go see the movie.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  I’d rather talk around it and let people go and see it and say, hey, did you like that? Cause it’s ****** **, isn’t it? Like I don’t really.  Jill  Yeah, like, don’t be like my mother who told me that. Bruce Willis was dead the whole time, so that I don’t even bother to watch 6th sense. Yeah. And to this day have not watched it.  Dion  You know, Jill, I gotta say I’m. I’m. I’m with you on that because it was spoil. It was spoiled for me in the break room at at a work thing. And I was like, ohh. And they’re like, oh, you haven’t seen I’m like, no, because it came out yesterday.  Jill  What’s the point? There. Yeah. Thanks.  Speaker 6  Thanks.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, I remember.  Dion  So I’ve never actually watched it.  Quinny  Trying to watch like Battlestar Galactica, the the 2000 series, and then somebody said to me, oh, I can’t believe that such and such and such and such and such for the final styles. And I was like. What the ****? And they’re like, ohh. It’s a joke. And I’m like you weren’t ******* joking.  Dion  Thanks.  Quinny  That’s cool. Well, I got to interview them this ******* weekend. So great.  Dion  Well, look, the the I think the the the non spoilery things I can say about it is that I was disappointed with. Was that the whole mystery is all about the kids. All right.  Speaker 6  Dion  And then you really don’t get a good resolution with the kids.  Jill  Yeah.  Dion  And it’s just a little bit you, you, I understand why they did the things that they did, but there isn’t. There isn’t a great resolution really.  Jill  Yeah, I feel like you don’t always have to have that in a film.  Speaker 7  No, and there is something.  Jill  It’s like we said, like it was. It was really. The journey of the movie that was the reward.  Dion  I got to say by the end of it, like the the kid who plays Alex, Carrie Christopher, he like I didn’t give a **** about.  Jill  Gorgeous little kid.  Dion  I yeah, I I was really disappointed with that kid right up until towards the end. And then I’m like ohh, that that kid did a really ******* good. Like having to do with a lot of adult themes and adult concepts by the end. And you’re like, holy ****, that kid is either gonna be a freaking St. or the devil.  Quinny  And I do like that whilst it’s avoiding tropes all over the place, you know, and it’s doing everything it can to try and not be the obvious or whatever you do still end up in a haunted house in a way. And you know it, it’s becomes.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah, with your don’t go in the basement moment.  Quinny  I know you. You’ve got 100%, you’ll do not go in the basement moment. And I was like, yeah, cool. We’re we’re. You know, we’re hitting on those things because I do think there is something like really archetypal about certain ideas and horror concepts. And being chased around your own house. Is terrifying, and people that you know not being themselves is terrifying. Yeah, yeah.  Dion  You know, and now you’ll never look at a kid in a playground running like that with their arms out. Being a plane without going whoop.  Quinny  Have you ever Naruto run? Dion  Didn’t you? You asked that question.  Jill  God, I I. Have dignity.  Quinny  I asked it off microphone.  Jill  I have dignity I.  Quinny  Thank you.  Jill  Run.  Quinny  I have seen so many people Naruto run around conventions.  Jill  I bet you.  Quinny  Have you know I’ve seen so many *******.  Jill  Yes. Yeah, they don’t do it ironically either.  Quinny  You. This. No. And I just wonder, I I I look at this and I was like, was that intentional? Did they know that they were doing that? Oh, isn’t it? No, no.  Jill  This is not a Naruto. Arm is like the arms have to be out back behind you, yeah.  Dion  Out. Yeah, they’re gonna be.  Quinny  Ohh. OK, right. Sorry, right, right. Just like.  Jill  This was like.  Dion  Yeah, this is just.  Jill  Just to the side.  Dion  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of straight down kind of thing, but I mean don’t take anything you see on anime and try and replicate it and realise you’ll just hurt yourself.  Quinny  Yeah. Or someone.  Dion  Else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all parties.  Quinny  Teapots. Right. OK, yeah.  Dion  Fair enough. Kind of planking. If only they were yelling, skippity rears when they ran around.  Quinny  Yeah, like there are. There are so many really good, very quick jump scares. Like, you know, there are there’s moments in a bed, there’s moments, you know, all over the place where you just like, really good. Momentary jump skis, but it also does that very clever thing of going we’re building up to a a jump scare and then we’re going to give you something that isn’t the jump scare. But. That can be really obvious. Like we all know that if you’re gonna build up to a jump scare, you’re not gonna give us the jump scare. You’re gonna add in a a thing. This one I was like actually that were pretty good. Like they weren’t fake outs or anything. These felt like something that still maintained the tension.  Speaker  See.  Dion  See, I really wish we’d had been able to arrange it earlier for you to have seen, barbarian. I get before this.  Speaker 6  One going on about barbaric.  Jill  We keep talking about it. We keep talking about it, but only.  Dion  Like.  Jill  For a very good.  Speaker 7  Reason. OK so so.  Dion  I warn you, I. Don’t you, Connie? It’s not a fun watch. I’m not recommending this to you because I think you’re gonna have a good time. I’m recommending it for you because all of the tense and scary things that you kind of felt from weapons, you’re going to get in barbarian again.  Quinny  OK so. Can you give me a like give me a vague synopsis of what barbarian is about.  Dion  It’s about the dangers of Airbnb.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  Oh, right.  Dion  Sounds boring, huh? Definitely not.  Jill  Yeah, but Justin Long is in it, but. And he’s the red herring.  Speaker 6  Eh.  Quinny  Right, so This is why you were all very excited when. He showed up in this.  Jill  Yeah. We’re Justin long shows up in a horror movie. Yeah, right.  Dion  As the thing like. It’s it’s done it it, it does a little bit of vignette things where it sort of takes the the two things it’s like it’s following Justin Long and it’s following another character. And they’re both standing at the same Airbnb and then it’s following one.  Jill  Yeah, there’s like, a really good fake out in the beginning because you’re like, ohh, this is very much going to be this thing and then it’s not. And then you’re like, but wait, what the **** is actually happening?  Dion  Yeah. Yeah, it’s like. Yeah. And by the time you find out what the **** is actually happening, you’re like. What the **** is happening?  Jill  Yeah. And you’re like, why and why and why?  Dion  No, no. And then it.  Speaker  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Dion  Just turns out it was just really, really ******* creepy.  Speaker  Yeah.  Dion  Yeah. Anyway, but it is more. It is more your traditional horror.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Dion  You know.  Quinny  Right cause I I looked at that and I thought it sounded a bit more like the torture pointy kind of things like.  Speaker 6  This.  Jill  Body horror elements in it, that’s for sure.  Dion  There’s a little bit of torture **** because I’ve gotta also say there was just that thing of like, I don’t want to be in that situation and it’s a bit too graphic for me. Yeah, but you don’t like, you know, it’s. It’s just a good. It was the start of the way of building tension and and confusing you by going. We’re going to present you with a thing that says you’re going down this road, but it’s just going to kind of keep going. And then it’s actually like, wait. I was on on a road at all. I was actually on a lake. How did I get in this lake? And I’m not in a boat. What is going on?  Quinny  Sorry, I just I wanted to look up torture **** films cause I’m trying to think of it and particular one.  Jill  What kind of results did you?  Quinny  Just get well. Yeah, it was not a. Good time hostel. That was the one that I was trying. To. Find the name of hostel and hostel too.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Quinny  But I love it.  Jill  Ohh, not not hostile you’re saying hostel?  Quinny  Hostile. Sorry. Yeah. Like that was one of those ones where it’s just like, you know, bad things happen to people. Human centipede, that kind of thing, bad things happened to people. It’s about the the torture.  Speaker  Oh.  Jill  Yeah, yeah.  Quinny  Salo. 120 days of sort. Sort of I was. I’m looking down this list, and I’m like, oh, yeah, I remember that when I run into that one. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And then I get. Justin Bieber never say never like. Well done to whoever ******* wrote that.  Jill  Well done.  Quinny  List because that was. Comic timing, like you wouldn’t believe.  Speaker  Ohh dear look.  Dion  There’s, you know, like, weapons isn’t a perfect film. There are some beats, I think didn’t quite. Planned and some decisions, as you said like it it goes a bit strange in the end. You’re like you’re going to go with it or you’re just going to be like oh.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  That’s sure that’s. Stupid. It’s like, no, I was. Yeah. No, I was 100% there for it too.  Quinny  I I yeah, I actually thought and I said to a couple of people, I thought it let off the the accelerator a little bit when they introduced the.  Dion  The reason?  Quinny  The reason? Yeah, like the to me when we started to get a few answers as to what was causing this, I felt like the tension ratcheted down a little bit.  Dion  Yep. I feel like they’ve they’ve followed that through with the comedy though, but they did ramp back the they did get back to the tension as they try to resolve everything as you get to the resolution.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  You’re wrapping. You’re ramping that sort of thing up again. Yeah. I thought they did it quite well. And, you know, the the end of it was. Fun.  Jill  I think it’s just like we’re going to blow off all. Of the steam that. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Of this movie? Yeah. And we’re going to do it in a comedic way, just to kind of like, yeah, that all out, you know.  Dion  Yeah. I mean, I feel like by the end of it, the audience was all kind of like, oh, ****, that was weird and ****, and I don’t know, but it was much more. Or interesting to to see that whole audience who had who had. Spent. You know good hour and a half tense as ****, absolutely sitting there going. What the **** is happening? I don’t want to be in this audience or thankfully, we’re all experiencing this together to then have a bit of a OK, well, OK, ****. OK. What was that all about? And I love confusing a confused audience. Not a confused.  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  Audience like why was Ice cube in an ad for Amazon for 80 minutes? But more like that. Was that good like I had that the thing when at the end of it I was like, is that was that a good movie?  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Quinny  And I think people will take away from it what they what they will, you know, they’ll they’ll either enjoy bits of it or they want or they’ll find that some of it worked for them and some. Of it didn’t. Yeah, but. It’s done very well. That’s something that I do, you know, I’m happy to report that it’s. Done a lot better than most of the other films were released this weekend.  Jill  Quinny  Like based on its budget and everything, it’s kicked the **** out of a couple of much bigger films.  Jill  Good for.  Quinny  Them. Yeah, one of them being freakier Friday.  Dion  Look, I’m. I’m.  Jill  The Disney cash grab.  Dion  I’m happy that Zach Cregger, you know, survived the bidding war for weapons.  Speaker 6  Yes.  Dion  And that Jordan Peele fired a couple of people over not getting it.  Jill  Ohh, Jordan Peele movie coming out soon. Him.  Dion  Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes, but he was. Yeah, he was trying like Jordan Peele was trying to get Zach Craig as, Umm, spec script for his production company and did not get it. And then fired two of his management people for not getting it. OK. And I’m like, OK, but the really interesting thing I think for the next project that has been announced for this director is the Resident Evil reboot. Oh ****. And he’s writing directing. It. Ohh so it was like OK. Interesting. Yeah. Hmm. I mean, you never like a franchise with an established fan base, and many temps is fraught with peril. Yeah, absolutely.  Speaker  Yes.  Jill  But it means we don’t have to see *******. Milla Jovovich wheeled out again.  Dion  You’d leave Miller alone. She’s the supreme being.  Quinny  I mean. I love that they even attempted another reboot a few years ago and just nobody paid any attention to.  Dion  It. Yeah, I love that even one of them was a 3D1, which was like, you know, your franchise is in trouble when you’ve gone through an era of 3D coming and going again. Like jaws, jaws through the return jaws, three Jaws 3D. Like what the ****?  Speaker 6  Hmm.  Dion  Anyway.  Quinny  Trying to remember what that ******* ohh yeah. Resident Evil. Welcome to Raccoon City, you know? Yeah, the one that nobody paid any attention to at. All. But it mean.  Dion  Yeah, you know, look had no Miller in.  Quinny  It.  Dion  It’s.  Quinny  Oh well, look, I’m. I’m keen to see what he does next. Absolutely. And if he can make Resident Evil work? Cause like to me, I think that’s that’s not actually it shouldn’t be that hard. Like resident evil’s.  Jill  Yeah, it’s really not. It’s such a straightforward premise.  Quinny  Yeah, if you do a good solid zombie film and you use the characters that are in the in the games, it’s not that hard. I would ******* love to see this guy have a go at Silent Hill.  Jill  Yeah, that could have been.  Quinny  Like.  Jill  Silent Hill would have been better than Resident Evil. For this guy.  Quinny  Yeah, I think he’s his. Disturbing.  Jill  Because this guy is like, so good at, like, suburban. Dystopia.  Quinny  Yeah.  Jill  So I think like silent. Hill would be perfect for.  Quinny  Him absolutely.  Dion  Is am I the only one who didn’t mind the Silent Hill film that came out with rider? Mitchell, like I thought it was alright.  Quinny  No, I quite liked it. If the.  Dion  Freaky and the and the Borg Queen as the evil witch woman.  Speaker 6  Yeah.  Quinny  That was another one where I was like, OK, it it started really well, did some really good creepy stuff and then ended poorly. But yeah, I quite like that.  Speaker  Sure.  Dion  I mean, I’ve I I’m I I think with in return in in the idea of Zach Gregor. I’m kind of like just let him cook. Don’t give him a franchise. Don’t let him don’t make him do other **** just like no let him do his stories he’s doing quite well at the moment.  Jill  Yeah.  Dion  Of just. That’s true. Going barbarian? Yeah, that’s a good one. Weapons pretty good. You know what’s the next one? And I don’t pitch quinnie. Go for him and say, like, can you make a the same horror film, but everything you shot during the? Hi.  Quinny  I would love to see somebody ever go. On. It I haven’t watched Midsummer so.  Dion  Really.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  It answers the question who would you like? Would you prefer a bear or a man?  Speaker 8  Yes.  Dion  In the wheel.  Quinny  I don’t know because I always looked at that and I thought it looked a little bit, Wicker Manish, but now I’m completely confused as. To what that may actually be that.  Dion  Yes, but it’s a woman, so it’s a Wicker woman.  Quinny  Ohh.  Dion  Sorry, there are no. Ease.  Quinny  Good, because they weren’t me in the ******* original.  Dion  Film No, but there was in the Nick Cage one.  Quinny  Don’t don’t say it.  Speaker 7  Not. Why would you mention? ******* ohh. You broke my legs.  Dion  It’s very bad, it’s. Yeah, Speaking of Speaking of bad, what are we doing next week?  Quinny  Oh, oh, well, well.  Speaker  Oh.  Jill  Hopefully it’s not a bad show, yeah.  Dion  Two shows having a bit of. It

K-Pop Demon Hunters K-Pop Demon Hunters sounds like a joke title, but this action packed adventure/romance/musical/ martial arts action film… is really something different! The surprise animated hit of the year which has been not only smashing streaming video records (thats Netflix for ya), but also demolishing the music charts (Golden hitting no. 1 on Spotify!) is something nobody saw coming, but now that it’s here we may never be the same! Its a heady mix of Korean mythology, flying swords-person action, heartbreaking romance, radical self acceptance and all with a K-Pop soundtrack that lets be clear… absolutely slaps. We have a special guest for this show, with our beloved Ardella (Bec) chiming in to profess her undying love of this unexpected gem! Dion may have his demonic grump on, but Jill and Quinny both are singing from the hymn-book of hon-moon creation. Synopsis K-Pop Demon Hunters” tells the story of a K-pop girl group, Huntrix, who are also demon hunters, tasked with protecting the world from demons and their king, Gwi-Ma. They use their music to maintain a magical barrier called the Honmoon and work towards strengthening it into the Golden Honmoon, which would permanently banish demons. Their mission is complicated when a rival demon boy band, the Saja Boys, emerges, stealing their fans and weakening the Honmoon. https://youtu.be/gsMp_Oq-_mY As always, a musical magical thank-you to the K-popping demon hunting divas who join in with the conversation on the Twitch stream, live each Tuesday night at 7:30pm AEDT. And an especially huge thanks to any of the glow stick waving uber fans who are kind enough to support us by programming a tip in our jar via Ko-Fi, or subscribing on twitch… every bit helps us to keep the honmoon strong and if not golden, a bit bronzed… If you feel so inclined drop us a sub we really love them, The more subby mc-sub-faces we get, the more Emotes You get! https://youtu.be/3JTVQTk36R8?si=CPEwLl_mx84YG1Iw https://youtu.be/yebNIHKAC4A?si=ImoyGFkIO-pC3a99 https://youtu.be/983bBbJx0Mk?si=_B-EAl_rChUeZ8c0 WE WANT YOUR FEEDBACK! Send in voicemails or emails with your opinions on this show (or any others) to info@theperiodictableofawesome.com Please make sure to join our social networks too!  We're on: Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TPToA/ Twitter: www.twitter.com/TPToA Facebook: www.facebook.com/PeriodicTableOfAwesome Instagram: www.instagram.com/theperiodictableofawesome/ Full text transcript Dion  Ohh hello and welcome to the periodic Table of awesome. Well, we’re getting on to this Tuesday night, going down the good old road of something Netflix. Are you related? Hello. Yes.  Quinny  Hello, we’re going down. And we’re going down, down, down.  Speaker 3  I know.  Quinny  What, John, why aren’t?  Dion  You singing. I don’t understand the concept. What the **** is happening? This is not a regular. Hi. My name is Dion. I’m joined tonight by Queenie and I’m joined by Jill. And I’m joined by Beck. Pop. Hello, pop. It’s been a while. Thanks for joining us. This one.  Quinny  Hey, welcome back.  Dion  Because yeah, for your viewing pleasure, you’re helping us talk about K pop.  Ardella  I am. I am this cultural phenomenon has been on repeat in my household for the last month, so I’m thrilled to talk about it.  Speaker  Hi.  Jill  Oh.  Dion  Oh.  Ardella  On the Internet.  Dion  A month.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah.  Ardella  OK, we are late to this party.  Dion  I am but I I’m 100% late to this party only because. Yeah, sorry.  Quinny  All right.  Dion  Good to you.  Quinny  No, no, no. I like I said, I actually talked about it. I don’t know the weekend it came out or the like. I watched it because I had nothing else on. I was sitting on the couch and I was like, that looks entertaining. I’ll just put that on in the background. And was then kind of like this is ******* cool. And then when in the next episode, I’m like Jill, Jill, Jill, you gotta you gotta check it out. You gotta check it. And she’s like.  Jill  Like, leave me alone. Otherwise I won’t watch.  Speaker 4  Yeah, yeah. And then the.  Quinny  It was like Jill, Jill, Penny, Penny, Penny, Penny, Penny, and she’s like, leave me alone.  Jill  Next, let’s do yeah. Sorry, it’s it’s the Aries. You can’t tell me what to do.  Quinny  Yeah, the license.  Ardella  Can I just say though, despite being one of the longest bloody trailers in the world, I. I’m so impressed by how little it manages to give away, and I wonder if we can manage to give away a similar level of not spoilers.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, we can. We can. I mean we can. We also do a. Spoilery bit after we’ve done the thing, but.  Ardella  I remember how this works.  Quinny  OK, OK.  Ardella  I also remember that we often suck it, not giving too many spoilers in the free spoiler bit.  Quinny  This is a good point. Well made.  Jill  OK, we’re going to be as vague as.  Quinny  Possible. Yeah. So how did your come to it? Did you just find it on Netflix? Did did somebody recommend?  Jill  It to you. I know. Yeah. Somebody annoyed. Me to watch it, yeah.  Dion  No, Quinn. He made me watch it.  Ardella  Yes. Yeah. Did he tape your eyelids open and struck you to the chair? Yeah.  Dion  Yeah, it’s 100% Clockwork Orange, me. For this but but I’ve got this.  Speaker 1  Yep.  Quinny  And I’m not sad. I’m not. I’m not. Embarrassed about that?  Dion  I’ve got this weird. Sort of tick now that I have to keep kind of doing this and I feel like I need to do choreographed dances every now and again. So I don’t know what’s happening. I don’t know anything about.  Jill  Can teach you.  Quinny  See, I don’t think we were fully aware that Beck was as into this as not as until like you you posted a video to us. You’re like look at.  Dion  Excellent.  Speaker 4  This did you dance?  Dion  Like ohh OK, you know, we’re gonna talk about stuff that, like quite blatantly. I have absolutely no ******* idea what’s going on.  Jill  I mean.  Dion  We might as well open the floor up to people who do know what the **** is.  Ardella  Going on, but have you watched it dear?  Dion  Yes, I watched it from the start to the last song.  Ardella  Great. How? How the **** do you still? Have no idea what is going on then.  Dion  Have you seen the film?  Ardella  It’s a very cromulent storyline.  Speaker 2  No wonder.  Dion  Here’s what’s going on. They’re just doing things on screen and singing songs and going. This is good. Yeah. And you’re watching it.  Jill  Yeah, pop music is a part of Concepto dialog. OK, yeah.  Dion  Sure.  Ardella  Dion should never go and see a.  Jill  Thank you.  Speaker 13  Musical is what?  Ardella  We’re hearing this is an even musical.  Quinny  No, no.  Speaker 13  Devil story.  Dion  No, this isn’t far off though.  Speaker 13  Season.  Dion  This is it. Musical level storytelling and I watched it. And I’m not saying like things are bad or weird or out of my comfort zone. It’s just it’s not really for me.  Speaker 3  Dion  And that’s OK, you know.  Ardella  You’re allowed to be wrong.  Jill  He often is.  Quinny  Also I I will point out that that Dean had had a very, very long bad day by the time that this came onto his screen and I kind of get the feeling that it was like.  Speaker 4  Oh.  Quinny  Is that a reasonably accurate description deal?  Dion  Look, you know I’m not. I’m able to separate church and state here. I can understand the value of something even though my personal opinions may have coloured it slightly. That being said, I still don’t really know what’s going on in Capot demon.  Jill  Would you? Would you like this is not.  Speaker 4  Let’s let’s have us.  Dion  I mean, sure, if you think I’ve got it, I wonder if I’ve got any music somewhere. Hang on a second.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah. OK. K pop. Hang on. What voice am I doing?  Speaker 13  Nothing, right?  Quinny  Well, that’s it. Somebody else better do.  Dion  Ohh no.  Quinny  OK, K pop demon hunters tells the story of A K pop girl group called Hunt Tricks, who are also demon hunters tasked with protecting the world from demons from for their king Guimar. They use their music to maintain a magical barrier called the honeymoon, and work towards strengthening. Hit into the golden Hon moon. Which would permanently vanish.  Ardella  Day and age of Tik toking. And if you’re my age, Instagram, reeling a week after it’s appeared on TikTok. We’ve basically have a a huge collection of people who’ve basically seen half the movie through real. Or tick tocks and then go. OK, I may as well go and watch this movie now. So I think that a lot of people have had that experience when Quinny mentioned it. I then was like, let’s watch the trailer for this and was on board after watching the trailer and.  Speaker 1  Mm-hmm.  Ardella  My partner and I sat down and. Watched it over Friday night. We were amazed by the number of layers that this movie has that you do not get from the trailer, and I was on board just with what that surface level stuff was already.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was the thing that surprised me. It was just the the like from a trailer, like or because I didn’t even see a trailer. I just saw it pop up on Netflix, as you know, the the, The little preview that starts playing. And I was like.  Ardella  Yeah, that’s the trailer.  Quinny  Well, but it I didn’t even watch the whole thing like it was just sort of there in the background and I was. I don’t know what that is. But **** it looks cool.  Dion  Did you just hit it like a fricking pokie machine button? As soon as it popped up, you were like chin, let’s do this.  Quinny  My good addition. Yeah, sorry, Jill. You’re gonna.  Jill  Say something. Yeah, I think at the time, quinny, when you said. Hey, Jill, have you watched K pop demon hunters yet? I think my best friend had also watched it and had, like. Posted a story about it and all I heard all over Instagram was the the main song from it Golden. It was on everything and not just like animated clips of the movie, but like just people’s reels. They’re using that song. And so I was like, oh, no.  Speaker 4  Hmm.  Jill  This is the hype zone. Jill doesn’t like being.  Speaker 4  5th.  Jill  In the hype zone. Jill wants to avoid ever watching stuff that gets into the hype zone. I still have not watched Everything Everywhere, all at once because it got too hyped, so this was heading in that direction and went. Queenie, when you said to me, have you watched it yet? I was like, I’ll get to it.  Ardella  Was interesting that you mentioned that Jill, because there are theme crossovers.  Jill  Yeah. So I don’t push me. But then I. Kept hearing the bloody music. I’m like ****, this is a catchy song and then I think it got to like the following weekend and I’m like, I’m not gonna talk to anybody about this, but I’m gonna watch.  Speaker  It.  Jill  And I was like, oh, that’s great.  Quinny  Because I’ve seen so many people who, like, have watched it, and then it’s just become their whole personality.  Jill  Ohh yeah, I mean that was on heavy rotation like the album it was. It became a hyper fixation for a.  Quinny  Yes.  Jill  Week.  Dion  Wait, so can I just get this one like coming into this just a little bit blind, you know, from this whole stuff. So you’re telling me that there are real people in the real world that saw the small part of this and it’s become a hyper fixed?  Speaker 4  Yeah.  Dion  Which is mirroring the fact that the fans of this band in the fake world have a hyper fixation problem.  Ardella  So interestingly, interestingly, the soda pop song by the Demon Boy Band for a very long time there took over the charts from the actual you know, K pop boy band of the moment BTS.  Quinny  You say?  Speaker 4  Oh yes.  Dion  The soju boys. I love the soju boys, they’re great.  Speaker 4  Ohh I love some soju.  Quinny  Beck, how do you feel about this? Pineapple surgery.  Speaker 1  What?  Dion  Soulja boys.  Jill  I like the lemon one, it’s.  Dion  Delicious.  Jill  Kind of funky, but it’s good.  Dion  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the one with the six pack.  Ardella  But what’s what’s really interesting about the soundtrack to this as compared to a traditional musical, is in a traditional musical, you’ve always got that one song that everyone skips or tunes out goes to the bathroom during it’s usually the one that the token old man sings.  Jill  Ohh OK.  Speaker 13  But.  Ardella  If you think about it, is.  Quinny  It’s the talk singing 1. You give it to the guy who can barely sing.  Jill  Ohh yeah yeah. Jeff Goldblum. Number in wicked. Yeah, exactly.  Ardella  There are no low points in this soundtrack and.  Quinny  In new tiles.  Ardella  I think even. The one song that when I was watching the movie for the first time I was like, this is kind of my bathroom breaks on. When I went back and listened to the soundtrack.  Speaker 13  Through by.  Ardella  Wolf it was still a banger. I was still singing along. I was still fully on board. I was finding all the hidden messages in the lyrics. I don’t think there is a a dud on this soundtrack.  Quinny  Nope. And as of 2 days ago, Golden went to literal #1 on the Billboard chart like it’s ******* stupid.  Ardella  Something that’s really cool about the creatives behind this entire movie is that the movie has so many authentic South Korean cultural elements to it that it has become huge in South Korea as well. And many, many people there.  Speaker 3  Hmm.  Ardella  Absolutely love it, which is so wonderful because there have has been a lot of outcry in the past about South Korean culture being misrepresented. And this is a wonderful example of cultural appreciation rather than appropriation, and one of the reasons behind that is that they have actually included many South Korean genuine K pop stars and producers, writers, and the singing voice of. The main main individual from home tricks. She was a K pop star in training who went away to go to school and stopped Kpop training. And when she came back to try and be a K pop star they told her she was too old and couldn’t do it. Anymore. And so she became a writer and a producer. Of K pop music instead, and now is singing on this and has gone to the top of the charts so incredibly hard. And I think that that lends this incredible authenticity to it, but also is kind of like a stuff you to the industry at the same time, which is amazing.  Dion  Because it’s look, it’s a curious thing about the the making of it, because actually, yes, I did. I watched the whole thing and then I even watched the credits where they showed all the behind the scenes bits of the people in there. And I thought that was really interesting. And then reading more about it and trying to find out more about it. I was like, oh, that’s interesting that they have. A bunch of Korean American. Others. Doing the voice work, but then a bunch of South Korean singers doing the song work and I was just a little bit like oh, oh, OK like why, why the need for the split like?  Ardella  They’re two different skill sets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Quinny  You you don’t find that many actors who can sing that ******* well. Like who can sing to the level that is required of.  Ardella  Yeah. The vocal range in golden is outstanding. That is like 3 octaves of belting. That’s insanity.  Dion  I’m asking the question to not because I’m attacking the I’m not asking the question because I might. Why? They have to get more. You know, why is it a whole bunch of different sort of people in there?  Jill  Deon, Every Disney musical movie had a talking voice actress and a singing voice actress as well. It was.  Dion  I’m pretty sure John Oliver did all the singing for his parts as Zazu, right?  Ardella  Not all. Yeah, not all of them. I think the more recent ones like Moana, the.  Dion  Of course I know.  Jill  Yeah. The more, yeah, I mean, the classic ones, I mean the ones from the.  Ardella  Voice actor sings as well.  Jill  90s when we were kids.  Ardella  Yeah. Speaking of which.  Dion  Sure.  Jill  Yes, the travesty of casting Leah Salonga in this movie.  Ardella  Yeah. And then giving her 30 seconds of background vocals to do. Leah Salonga was the singing voice of Jasmine and Mulan, and is an incredible musical theatre.  Jill  Yeah, crazy.  Ardella  Actress and amazing singer and is in there as like the the main mentor character for the Huntress Girls. And has no real singing. It’s so background that I didn’t even notice when it happened.  Jill  It’s devastating, but.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah. Like, like putting, I don’t know. One of the. Yeah. Mariah Carey is a background character.  Speaker 3  Yeah, yeah. Like what?  Ardella  Mariah would never let that happen.  Quinny  No, no, absolutely not. So what was it about it that that sort of caught your eye? Immediately because I know what put me on the back foot straight away and made me go. That’s different. But I’d love to. Know what you guys thought?  Dion  What? What? Yeah. So there’s two. There’s two parts in that which which caught your eye. And there was a bit that caught you on the back foot which.  Quinny  Was your question what? What caught your what? One you were talking about excited you, really. Grabbed you. What?  Dion  Was that what put you? What put you on the front foot? Linked you into this show?  Quinny  The. What? Yeah, yeah.  Jill  The music I think, like I I enjoy the odd K pop. I’m. I’m not a die hard. I’m not a I don’t have a bias. I’m not like fully into the K pop culture. But I do enjoy the music peripherally, and so I thought like the songs were so catchy. And then when I saw, like, some of the animated stuff, I’m like, ohh, that’s very reminiscent of the spider verse animation. And then I realized it was a Sony thing. And then I’m like, OK. Well, this is probably going to be good.  Ardella  Yeah. I think the thing that put me off was the time.  Speaker 4  Well.  Ardella  What the hell is that? Title K pop Demon Hunters makes me think that this is trash and it is trash, but the best kind of crack trash. It’s amazing.  Jill  Quinny  MHM.  Jill  OK, you know what? It’s 100% tapped into for me was the female power story, but based in music like. I was one of those kids that was like ohh yeah, I wanna be in a girl band like that was like one of my fantasy things when I was. A child, but. Also, like yeah, being a superhero too. And like Sailor Moon. Is so intrinsic for me. It really had those kind of vibes of like, you know, magical girls that can save the planet.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah, that’s one of the first things I why I was like, ohh you would love it. Just for the magical girl factor. Like the the costume changes the.  Speaker 4  What’s this?  Quinny  The that that very Sailor Moon kind of vibe.  Ardella  What’s so interesting for me about? The introduction, just the opening sequence was that.  Speaker 2  Hmm.  Speaker  That.  Ardella  Funky kind of intro music. The the K pop music that it starts with reminds me a lot of earlier K pop when I was into it and some of my South Korean friends just roll their eyes at me because I think that my idea of K pop is like someone. These days, being like my favorite band is the Backstreet Boys. You know, it’s like ohh sweetie.  Jill  OK. Ardella  There we go. Yeah, you’re you’re the the shush now, grandma. Everything’s fine. Because my my favourites were like the Wonder Girls. And you know quite quite early K pop. I think, you know, compared to what’s in today, but.  Dion  You can.  Ardella  It’s just so funky and fun, and the fact that. It immediately started with the classic K pop mixing of Korean lyrics in with English lyrics, and then the flip to rap in there as well, and the rap being in both Korean and English, it really grabbed me in that I was like, OK, this is. Actually K pop it, it’s not just in the name, they are actually going with it and I found it really interesting learning afterwards that the K pop element was the last thing to be added into this storyline.  Dion  Yeah.  Ardella  Interesting. Yeah, that that was the last kind of piece of the puzzle when they were developing this movie was creating it as a K pop story.  Dion  Which is very strange because I think the thing that made me. Sort of get on board a bit with it. Like a bit more was the fact that it was self aware enough to understand some of? The. Insanity behind massive mass market fandom? Not that anyone is immune to it, like it’s all around when you go looking hard and you know the West. The West has borrowed from the that that world very heavily in the past. Our last Spice Girls etcetera, etcetera.  Quinny  Not that hard.  Dion  Was the ability for it to just to be self aware take a bit of fun, have a bit of fun with it, and then continue on go like, yeah, we acknowledge that there’s this there is there is some weird **** that happens in that world and we’re just going to lean into it and understand that it’s part of it. And then move. For with the rest of it, you know, apart from the animation is great and the characters were somewhat likeable.  Quinny  There, there, there are two things that got me straight up. So initially looking at it, I thought oh, wow, this reminds me of what, KD A yeah, which, you know, is the the League of Legends K Pop group. And I was like, OK, we’re obviously kind of gonna. Yes. That’s the thing there.  Dion  Thank you. You’re not like you’re saying things like Katie and I’m like, wait, is it three letter acronym? Should I know? What the **** is going on here? Kill. Kill, death, aggression.  Quinny  K/BA.  Dion  Right, OK. So just just help me with. This it’s a foreign territory.  Quinny  They they are a a AK pop group that was done by the animation company that did League of Legends. So they’ve they’ve got a couple of songs that I actually have no idea how many songs they have about that. And I looked at that and I thought, OK, there’s a touch point. But the thing that and I have the same thing. Hip hop demon hunters. What a stupid ******* name. But watching it, I got to about 5 minutes in and the moment that they’re on the plane and. And they allowed their characters to be ugly and to do stupid faces. And they’re beautiful characters who are fully, you know, gorgeous and made-up, and everything are burping and, like, eating ramen and fighting like ******* demons. But at the same time, they are. Very, very comedic and and I was like oh. ****, this is really kind of like as as soon as I watch it. I was like, this is gonna play to a a female crowd so. Well because it’s not saying look at these perfect, you know, pristine things. These are people who just want to have snacks and lie on the couch and you know relax and be ******* normal. Humans, but at the same time, they want to be super powerful. You know, warlocks that are protecting the world from demons and **** like that. Like this is every little girl’s ******* dream combined and. I was like, holy ****.  Jill  Yeah, like women can be multifaceted. They’re not just put into one box.  Quinny  The power of that.  Jill  As one thing.  Ardella  They can, but there’s absolutely no way an actual K pop band would be allowed to pig out on.  Speaker 4  Junk. Yeah, that’s the thing. It’s.  Ardella  That’s not happening in the real life world, I’m sorry to say. That is. I mean, when we think about.  Dion  But but but. The dropping in out of a plane? Sure.  Speaker 4  Just.  Ardella  Kind of disbelief there. Day on. Yeah, carries through. It carries through. But I do think that it’s interesting having that acknowledgement of. I mean it, it’s it’s an an issue, an underlying issue. I think the treatment of pop stars and this isn’t just a problem in South Korea with K pop or in Japan with J Pop, although it’s a very similar kind of culture from my understanding, yeah, in the their K pop J pop. Machines that churn out these bands that are designed and kind of almost bread to create hype and money and. All of this, we see it in like Dan was saying in. The Spice Girls.  Quinny  Yep.  Ardella  As well, we see it in these manufactured bands that have been created to take our love and to take our money, OK.  Quinny  The eagles.  Jill  There’s literally another program on Netflix right now called building the band.  Ardella  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think it’s really interesting then to look at our K pop demon band. And see that they are. They’re they’re saying the quiet part out loud with with the demon boy band here. But the reality is that that is what all K pop bands are. They are there to take the love to take the energy and to take the money of their fans. And they’ve been created. Expressly to do that. And so I I just find that really interesting to have. That kind of duality on display where we’re saying no hunt tricks are the the good guys when the reality is that. All K pop bands are there to do exactly what the Demon Boy band are doing.  Dion  Yes.  Quinny  And that duality is also encompassed in the lead character as well that, yeah, there are so many elements of things that she is not comfortable with. There’s elements of her public perception that she’s not comfortable with and. You kind of like the stories of the three characters. You know that that one of them is the bad girl who doesn’t get on with her family. The other ones come from, you know, America and is is a a rapper, but she’s also really sweet. All of these things are. Prepackaged they’re made to make them assailable, you know, definable feature.  Ardella  A personality.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, that people can latch on to, but then you’re also watching and going. Yeah, they’re really funny. And they’re really cool. And I like them. And, you know, they’re they’re little horn dogs. And they, they, they just turn into popcorn and.  Dion  Thank, thankfully. Yeah, I mean, thankfully, you know, they they expressed all those lessons and of course that was the end of it. And this is all we have when. There’s one. Oh, no. That’s why there’s going to be sequels and a TV show and a live stage show. And it’s like, oh, oh, no, the demons won. Ohh no.  Jill  That’s one thing that I I would like to talk about a bit more is like the actual structure of the story. I know we’re not gonna give anything away, but I was interested that it was a movie. TV and not a TV series because I felt like there could have been a lot more character development actually happened throughout a TV series. I wanted more about the back story of the girl’s mentor. I wanted a little bit more time with the Saga boys in the demon. From in general, yeah, just a little bit more fleshing out of story I thought would be great.  Ardella  Apparently it was originally 3 hours long and I. Saw. Someone, I think it might have been tally in the in the chat mentioned that earlier.  Jill  I’d watch 3 hours of this.  Quinny  Yeah, I’m there for, I mean.  Speaker 3  Actually really.  Ardella  Joined a 90 minute movie though.  Speaker 4  We have so many long.  Speaker 3  Yeah, yeah.  Ardella  *** films coming out these days and the pacing in this felt great. I would much rather be left wanting more than be left sitting on my couch, scrolling Instagram halfway through because I’m like, this is a this is a.  Speaker  I wanted.  Jill  Sure.  Ardella  Dull bed.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, this is the song that I’m not into. And that’s the reprise of the song. I’m not. Into.  Speaker 13  It’s the old man song again.  Speaker  Ohh.  Quinny  It’s something I did like though is is while I was watching it. I you know the first number I was like ohh yeah, this is pretty cool. And then within the 1st 13 minutes, there were three, you know, musical numbers, completely different songs. Like I was watching, and I was like, oh ****, this is a secret musical. It’s not that secret, but it’s a proper musical and that, I mean, for me, for my, my taste, that was ******* great sick. Amazing and like to your point, Dion, I immediately then go totally see. This is a stage. And to your point, Beck. Ohh one of you. I’m not sure who was. Yes, I could see it working as a series because there’s a lot more to explore, and while Dion, I know that you’re like the capitalist pigs, they’re just trying to make money out of the kids sometimes. That’s OK. Because this is a ******* cool story.  Speaker 4  Yeah, I I mean.  Ardella  If you do like everyone wants our money, it is a we live in a society.  Speaker  Oh.  Jill  Here at the in the high points of the capitalism, my friend.  Ardella  Yeah, but I think that there is a a way that feel feels friendly and genuine to do that and this is hitting that nail for me. And there’s a way that feels inauthentic and.  Speaker  Hmm.  Ardella  Cash grabby and that’s not this at the moment. We’ll see how many spin offs they try and squeeze out of this and when it tips that line.  Speaker  Sure.  Ardella  But I think at the moment it still feels.  Dion  And in 15 years, when Netflix rolls back around and makes a live action version of the K pop Demon Hunters franchise, we will know hey. Yeah, now.  Ardella  Warm and flat.  Quinny  Ohh, so he said. They’re not doing it.  Dion  If you’re talking about.  Quinny  They they they got, they got absolutely ******* pilloried on the Internet when the initial run of things that they announced was live action. Make stage show and ongoing series. Everyone said do not ******* do this live action they.  Dion  Quinny. Went OK. Producers don’t care. It’s just that now there’s a lot of complaints. They’ll wait till they’re less complaints and then they’ll do it anyway for a tax break. That’s how the system works, quinny.  Speaker 4  That.  Quinny  So you’ve got another K pop.  Dion  People.  Speaker 6  Exactly.  Speaker 3  For me.  Speaker  You know like.  Dion  Stuff will happen that way, unfortunately and sometimes, fortunately, anyway, philosophically.  Ardella  Well, the sequel has already been greenlit by Netflix, which is unsurprising given that this is apparently in the couple of months that it’s been out a month and 1/2 that it’s been out. It has already topped all other animated movies on Netflix for the most watched.  Dion  Yeah. And we’re a good time behind as we have already. Explain like in in terms of the pickup of this is that came out in June, you know and it’s now **** me, August.  Quinny  Yes.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  That’s the official date.  Dion  Yeah, yeah. Every time I look at the calendar these days.  Ardella  It is now **** me.  Dion  I’m like ****. Anyway.  Quinny  I’m Jill. I want to know on your your new rating system, how many? How many tips have you got less after this?  Speaker 4  ****. No. I think that’s a good.  Jill  2 tips off.  Dion  Ohh no **** left.  Speaker 4  Yeah, yeah, I it it. Yeah, it. Put my ****.  Jill  Off I enjoyed it a lot more than I.  Dion  Jill is Jill is untited.  Jill  Was expecting to because like. I know Queenie loves animation and so his glowing review was like Oh well, it’s gotta be good. And then also my friend who loves K pop and and animation as well and even her husband who enjoys animation like both raved about it. So I’m like, OK well. This has got to be good. That kind of got me in to watch it, but it’s so strange that like. I then convinced my other friend group to watch it and they were all like, oh, this is very kiddy and every everybody else thought it was. It was quite junior, but I didn’t really. Get that read.  Quinny  No.  Jill  They were like ohh it seems like a bit of a teen bop kind of thing and I’m like, well, I am 15 years old. Guys like, that’s why I like it.  Speaker 4  I think this.  Ardella  Is very Shrek adjacent in the figure. Pitch the kid. TV like category if you want to put.  Jill  Yeah, but there’s.  Ardella  It there, but it’s so grown up.  Jill  This was the stuff for the horn bag older women like.  Speaker 4  Is that what you say, Shrek? Yes.  Quinny  She’s not.  Dion  Shrek can get it.  Speaker  I mean.  Dion  Shrek can’t get. I mean, sorry. Before we go into the ratings, which we should do soon to try.  Speaker 4  Yeah.  Quinny  No, no. We need to talk about so.  Dion  And keep in time.  Quinny  Many more things.  Dion  Yeah, there are many things to talk about. The the Quinny, you did raise a point to me the other day talking about K pop demon hunters, which is going. Yes, it’s an interesting comparison, like an interesting comparison film to perfect blue, which we talked about recently too and.  Speaker 2  Yeah.  Dion  I was like. You may have a point.  Jill  Maybe not a companion piece.  Dion  There.  Quinny  I don’t know. I think I think they’re a fantastic companion faced 11 after the other and just.  Dion  Thematically. Thematically, it’s it’s somewhat similar in in in certain ways, not not the same way, like let’s they’re too.  Jill  Ones are very dark and twisted version.  Dion  Exactly, but they both.  Quinny  Yeah, what’s when’s the demons we met. Along the way.  Dion  But they both talk about fandoms. They both talk about the some of the crushing nature of conformity and having to represent yourself as something you may not be, and the damage that that could do. And. And let’s be honest, yeah, it diverges. Very, very different. But there are interesting themes and it’s really interesting to me to think about that. That film made back in the 90s was like working out these problems then and how far we’ve come and how we relate to it. Now, how creatives are relating to that now in this space with, you know, capable demon hunters is like, yeah, look at all these. Things that are still pretty much a problem, but we’re going to acknowledge that they have been a problem and that, you know, these are the things and but we still keep going because we have good messages that we want to try to put out. And if we could all make some money, that’s. Great. But if we have competition, we will crush. It that’s one take away I got from from like K Pop bands is they crush each other.  Speaker 1  Also.  Dion  As they can.  Jill  In the charts in the.  Dion  Yeah, it’s in the chat, but literally.  Quinny  Charts that I think you know differentiate some really very differently is that in perfect blue fandom is seen as being toxic and dangerous and bad. In this one fandom is is the beautiful glowing. Power of house that will save the world and die on your face. Is telling me that you ain’t buying any of this.  Dion  I think that’s a stretch.  Ardella  Ship, haven’t we all been in a a stadium watching a band that you love and just all singing along at once and just felt that that vibe? I mean, it’s what gets people into cult. So you know that it can be used for good or for ill.  Quinny  I was we we we both watched 11,000 with 11,000 other people. People rolled dice.  Speaker 14  Yeah.  Speaker 1  Yeah.  Dion  I mean I.  Speaker 3  Yeah, it’s.  Dion  Went I went to the Jared Leto 1 and that was fine. I’m normal.  Ardella  It’s a powerful thing, is what I’m getting at, yeah.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  I get.  Speaker  Quinny  You and in the chat a couple of people mentioned that there’s a comparison with the Puss in Boots, the last Wish, same automotive.  Ardella  I thought his favorite movie of all time.  Dion  I still haven’t. I still haven’t watched it. Even though you keep telling me I. I know. I know get that ***** kids. You know, like there’s only so many.  Quinny  Fine.  Ardella  Come here. We will. Clockwork Orange you again.  Dion  Alright, time to go to my friend’s house and be forced. Watched it or something.  Quinny  Yeah.  Ardella  That’s how I feel about the drunk DC. Watches that we’ve.  Dion  Oh yeah, we still gonna. Do that one.  Quinny  Hmm.  Dion  I still haven’t seen Aquaman 2. Can we bookend it? Which? One should go first, is it?  Speaker 2  Oh.  Speaker 13  I didn’t even know.  Ardella  There was an Aquaman. Ohh yeah.  Speaker 4  Yes, ******* all.  Dion  Yeah. Anyway, OK, think of your think of your ratings. Yes, rate, rate and rate and spoil.  Speaker 4  Should we right and then spoil? Yeah, yes, yes, yes.  Quinny  And if you have seen it in the chat, drop me some numbers so that I can put them into the thing I love. I love keeping an eye out for them.  Dion  Look, OK, I’ll look. I’ll start. Cause Get Me Out of the way. Why? Not. RIP the Band-Aid. Off, yeah, I look, I had a fun time because it was quite poppy and exciting and the animation is actually quite flawless. I like the characters all had a bit of humanity in them. They weren’t that way. U. Kind of. Everyone kind of worked. There’s definitely a saleable marketable thing going because that blue cat is why is that not a plushy already?  Speaker 4  Oh yes.  Quinny  Going to tell you about the blue cat.  Ardella  Derpy is his name.  Dion  Derpy is great. Yeah. OK, all the like. It’s good. I can see the the bit of the franchise there. And I can also see.  Speaker  He loves derpy.  Dion  Me having to scream when I hear the song again after the yeah, yeah. Yeah. 100% not for me, but I will give it 75. Because yeah, like, I think it’s good. Like if someone said, hey, you know, should I watch K pop diamonds? I’m like, yeah, like, you know, I recommend it to people with small kids. I don’t recommend all the way up to people who are 75. Yeah. I was the whole gamut. You can get something out of it. There is a good message in there.  Ardella  75 yeah.  Dion  And I think it’s quite a little hidden gem or. Unreleased jam, even if you don’t particularly like K Pop.  Quinny  Fair, Jill. Sorry.  Jill  Yeah. Look, I’m so excited to say that I have no tips after this film. It’s been a while. It’s been a while, but I am going to give it a 90.  Speaker  Off.  Quinny  We yellow.  Jill  Been a while since we’ve hit the nines for me, but I love that animation. There were just some moments where I was like. What am I watching like? This is just like the textures and everything were so ******* beautiful. There were moments where I’m like Christ, that looks almost realistic.  Speaker 1  Mm-hmm.  Jill  Loved how everybody had a personality. Everyone was like, different. Had their clerks had their faults, like had their beautiful moments. The only reason why it’s not getting more is because there were just some like small unresolved story things that I wish had been explored a little bit more, but. Other than that. We loved it.  Quinny  Heck, do you want to drop a number?  Ardella  Quinny  Nice.  Ardella  I’m a harsh marker, but what can I say? It’s interesting that you mentioned the animation, Jill, because one of the beautiful things that I’ve learned is that the hunt tricks characters our protagonists are animated in a very traditional way, which means that every second frame they move. Whereas our demon Boy band animated differently where they move every single frame and there are certain times at where it’s poignant in the movie where they swim.  Speaker  Which?  Ardella  Ohh and so there’s there’s lots of super cool things that happen behind the scenes that we don’t consciously recognise, but it’s doing stuff to our brains and I think it’s really, really cool. So yeah, I think the more that I learn about this movie and the work that’s gone in behind the scenes, the more I love it. And that’s why it’s really reaching those top numbers.  Quinny  Oh.  Dion  You gotta respect a bit of filmmaking.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  Bit of craft work in there.  Ardella  Exactly.  Quinny  And and that’s very much like the first spider verse. Yes, where like they were animating different characters on different frame rates and you know the the attention to detail. And one of the things that gets me about this is the. The absolute love for Korean culture, but also Korean mythology, and it’s also going to be very, very interesting down the track. Seeing people cosplay from it because already there have been people who have gone to do cosplays of the Soulja Boys and so forth and have had to. That that question of appropriation or appreciation. Is very difficult around certain parts of costumes because the hats are an actual part of a very specific part of Korean culture that you really can’t **** with. Yeah. So like the fact.  Ardella  Historical Korean culture, not even current really Korean culture as far as I’m aware as well.  Quinny  Yeah. Hmm. So yeah, whipping one up out of warbler is is kind of not. Not cool, not kosher. And that kind of.  Ardella  Derpy is my next cosplay. Yeah.  Quinny  Thing. And when we come back from the the and everything, I will talk about Derpy because that’s another piece of amazing Korean history and culture right there. My rating is 95. I ******* watched the **** out of it and love the **** out of it. The like the music aspect of it, I I’m not a big K pop fan or anything like that. I I don’t listen to a lot of that music, but I didn’t care because it was super catchy. The vocals were insane. I love that mix of of like the three different voices and the three different styles. Of the girls like that, you know, one will drop into really American style rap, but they’re all capable of rapping. They’ll all take, you know, high parts, low parts. But at the same time, then mix it with a bunch of really cool choreography and and martial arts. Mix in some extra mythology, add some cute characters. I love the fact that you know secondary characters are given a bit of love to like. The band’s manager is. Not a ********. You know how ******* lovely is it that that you know, you’re not just going? Yeah. The traditional ******** band manager? No, he ******* loves.  Dion  Them. Did you not learn anything from Jersey and the Pussycats? What the? ****.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, I I just, I mean, as I was watching, I just kept thinking, Oh my God, this is this is a thing for a generation of of girls to watch and. And relate to and want to be and emulate and I suddenly understood that whole thing that all the girls in primary school would go off and learn dances. And then to tie that whole thing that that you know, people want to do of of singing and dancing with, like, spiritual power and empowerment and protectiveness. I was just like, **** me. So yeah, I got a little love for it. I really don’t have much bad to say about it, which is, I mean, I don’t want to give it 100 because that would be ridiculous, but ****** really enjoyed.  Dion  It you can give it a.  Speaker 13  100 and that’s just the surface story.  Quinny  I know we haven’t even talked about what it all means.  Dion  Can’t wait for you to review the stage musical 350,000 out of.  Quinny  Review it, I’m going. To direct the. *******.  Dion  Which would you like to go? Would you like to meet the? Boys or yeah. With that one, we see who, who we. Talking about here, who are the Sargent boys? Sounds weird?  Speaker  Yeah.  Speaker 3  Look normal.  Speaker 5  Ohh yeah.  Speaker 6  Come on. Take your time. Yeah.  Speaker 14  Just like.  Speaker  Yeah.  Speaker 2  Ohh hot.  Speaker 3  You guys are so gross.  Speaker 6  No, yet you go hot. Then we’ll go. He.  Dion  Ohh that is just harsh. No helping hand there whatsoever. So the Sarja boys are a bit of * ****, really, aren’t they? They’re just *****. Hot *****.  Speaker  Yes.  Jill  Yeah, but they’re hot. They’re hot.  Speaker 4  Hot *****.  Dion  Yeah. Yeah, Jesus.  Jill  I’m going to tell you like we went to smash. What was it like 3 weeks ago? The artist Alley was chocolate block of K pop demon hunters. Art anything? Right with that tiger on, it was sold.  Quinny  Oh.  Dion  Right.  Jill  Out. Yeah, right. Good. There were. There’s a scene in the film where the both of the bands are Hunter Eggs and the Sergeant Boys are doing a meet and greet with fans.  Quinny  Oh my God. So.  Jill  And Abby, the gentleman with the. Tabs instead of signing a piece of paper with his name, he runs like pencil against a piece of paper on his ABS, and that’s his signature. There were drawings of that in the artist Alley for sale. The insanity.  Dion  I love Jesus. Yeah. I mean, OK question here. I don’t understand why I have questions now and spoil the logo is up and we’ll talk about spoil everythings if you like. Yeah, it’s been a month. It’s been out for quite a long time. I get derpy the thing.  Jill  Of this movie.  Speaker 14  Yes.  Dion  But what was with the strange Game of Thrones crossover with the Three Eyed Raven?  Speaker  Quinny  Do you want the?  Speaker 4  It’s not a Game of Thrones crossover deal on.  Dion  Everything’s a Game of Thrones crossover.  Ardella  It’s.  Quinny  Heck, do you wanna take it?  Ardella  Quinty no quinny you take this, you are so keen.  Quinny  No, I was so keen. But I I mean, I’m guessing we’ve probably watched the same explainer videos and stuff.  Speaker 13  No, I I read I don’t. Watch.  Quinny  Ohh God, within you actually.  Jill  Jesus, she’s an intellectual.  Speaker 13  Exactly. Where’s my glasses?  Quinny  Just need to take these things off and becomes derpy. The ******* yeah, well.  Dion  You’re on. You’re on.  Jill  Stick your tongue out.  Dion  New media now not only this traditional lofi media that you may try.  Speaker 2  Oh.  Quinny  Yeah. So OK, it’s not a Raven, it’s a magpie. And in Korean culture, the A, this is a it’s a historical joke. So the, the, the, the tiger and the magpie is the punchline of a historical joke. That tigers were traditionally shown as being the representative of the upper class and of rich culture, and specifically the governing class, and the magpie was the symbol of the lower class, the worker. Pass whatever and the hat which I’ve got to remember the name of. Thank you. If somebody wants to look it up for me, that’d be great. The hat is essentially a symbol of power. And so there’s a joke, or there’s a moment in there where the sorry.  Dion  It’s called a gap. It’s called a get, yeah.  Speaker 4  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah, ginu ginu.  Quinny  So.  Jill  Said he made it for the tiger.  Quinny  So yeah, that’s the joke is that it’s a symbol of power that was meant for the tiger, but the magpie keeps stealing it.  Speaker  Ah.  Quinny  And so it’s the it’s a symbol that the lower class will always get one up on the upper class because the upper class is ******* stupid and that’s why he’s derpy. And you’ll see in a lot of Korean art, tigers are always drawn slightly cross eyed or just a little bit dumb looking.  Jill  Quinny  And it’s because essentially, they’re just going upper class. The stupid look at the smart magpie with three eyes, you can see everything.  Dion  So this is exactly like parasite.  Ardella  Yeah, that’s what we’re saying.  Speaker 4  Yeah.  Dion  No, just that that character representation of the blue cat and the magpie is just parasite as a metaphor.  Quinny  Yeah.  Jill  Yeah. Yep, yeah.  Quinny  And and it makes that sequence where where Derpy comes out and knocks over the plant and then just can’t get it to stand up way too long. Like ohh you stupid.  Speaker  Yes. Thank you.  Dion  But it’s good to know, you know, like, I like those little trivia bits. It’s fun. It’s fun to.  Ardella  Learn. Feel like I I was so. Impressed that for the first time I think ever.  Speaker  Hmm.  Ardella  A Netflix trailer. Managed to intrigue and make me want to watch more and actually get me invested in the story without giving away the actual plot. Yeah, there is. There is a very surface level plot being shown out there and I think now that people are, you know, watching more of the clips on TikTok and Instagram and that sort of thing and watching even the golden video clip, they’ll, you might get spoiled.  Quinny  Hmm.  Ardella  Before watching the movie, if you’ve seen all of that, but for me my first tip popped off in the opening in.  Quinny  In the you’re missing how many sticks are you missing?  Ardella  Well, I have lost the second hit for me when the pattern reveal.  Speaker 7  Hmm.  Ardella  Happened in the.  Speaker  Ah.  Ardella  There was. It is very rare that any movie, a movie directed for adults with high levels of intelligence, they rarely get me with the whoa. What happened there was seeing that coming. This movie did that, I gasped. At that reveal, there were. There was nothing in me that thought that that was coming and that is so rare these days. I am so impressed that this movie called K Pop Demon. And so kind of surface level, you know, just fun on top, managed to have this flip. It had this beautiful level of depth to it. I just really loved that so much. I would have enjoyed, I think, a movie where it was just a, you know, magical girl. Banned fighting demons. I would have enjoyed that anyway, but this went a step further.  Speaker  Hmm.  Quinny  So in when we’re talking about the patterns and we’re talking about that, that reveal and that question about Rumi. What are the? Different like so I think that there are so many different layers of what it could mean. And I think one of the things that’s really smart about the film is that. It. Doesn’t specifically say it means any one thing. But what? What did you guys?  Ardella  Because they’re they’re waiting for the sequel or the spin offs or.  Jill  Yeah. So we’re gonna get the story that gives you the back story about, like who roomie’s father was and what happened to her mother and the the what were they called the Sunshine Sisters or whatever.  Quinny  Yeah.  Speaker  Yeah.  Jill  The.  Quinny  Yeah.  Jill  Band. Was and then we also need to have Gino come back because that was unfair how he went. Out. I know it was a beautiful sacrifice, but no, I want Ginyu back.  Ardella  He’s now in the blade, though. If you if you watch the sequence, you can see his spirit get pulled into the blade, which is an actual thing in Korean.  Quinny  Oh no.  Ardella  Mythology. Spirit blades. I believe. I believe I’m not Korean. Please correct me if I’m wrong.  Jill  OK, well I love. I love me as sexy anthropomorphize spirit coming out. Of the sword. So I’ll take. Yeah.  Speaker 3  And then the grade.  Ardella  Changes once his spirit is absorbed into it, so you can see the two different forms of the the blades are.  Jill  I need to ******* watch this movie again. Don’t.  Ardella  Very, very cool.  Speaker 13  I let’s go right now.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah.  Dion  Let’s see. We’re doing a watch along right now.  Speaker 4  It’s.  Jill  Now become a live stream.  Quinny  So damn, what was your you? You had some different takes on on what, some of that meaning may have? Been.  Dion  Which what do you mean the the meaning of which the whole?  Quinny  Thing of the past.  Dion  There’s a lot going on me was there? Did I say something that I’ve I’ve undoubtedly forgotten since yesterday?  Quinny  On. Yeah, well, quite possibly. So, I mean there there’s, there’s that whole thing of like being, you know, intergenerational trauma, like of this is the Korean trauma. Of what? Their history is the split of the country, North and South Korea, which you can read into that. You could also read into it an LGBT thing of this thing that you have to keep hidden about. Yourself. And whether or not she’s allowed to be, especially in K pop, the idea that is she allowed to be who she actually is. Because that is not appropriate like that whole thing of you wearing marks on your. That. You have to keep hidden. I think it has a lot of meaning for a lot of different people for probably a lot of different reasons.  Speaker 1  MHM.  Ardella  Yes, I would agree. I would hesitate to say that this is implying that Ruby is LGBTQIA plus at all, but I have 100% think that people who are LGBTQ a.  Quinny  No, not necessarily.  Ardella  Us could find a lot of parallels there.  Quinny  Yeah, I think that that’s sort of like that X-Men kind of thing. It’s like, yeah, no, we’re not saying that these characters are gay or whatever, but they are a fantastic.  Ardella  Except the ones that.  Quinny  Are. Yeah. So my my best X-Men guy.  Ardella  I think it’s really interesting. We’re seeing a lot of this storyline coming out in a lot of Asian and Asian American stories over the last decade especially, I’ve noticed a a real through line in a lot of the media that I’ve seen, at least. Where these cultures seem to be very much from an outsider perspective. Very much about conforming and not rocking the boat and being being part of a whole community that works well together because everyone kind of assimilates and and doesn’t step outside of the mold or make anyone uncomfortable. And I think yeah, exactly. I think that there is a lot of media coming out these days.  Jill  Yeah, homogeneous.  Ardella  And it’s interesting, Jill, that you mentioned Everything Everywhere all at once earlier, because that’s definitely part of the story behind that movie and and a real message in that movie is. Is that we need to allow the newer generations to be a little bit more unique and individual and celebrate that as something that is wonderful and and adds colour to our cultures and our societies, rather than being something that we should squash. Or avoid and to me, that’s what the patterns were and that’s what you know, was a a real underlying message behind this story is it’s not about conforming, it’s about celebrating what’s unique and individual about each of us.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, I I did just check and and the reason I brought it up is because of the writer did say that the the intent was that it was a. Bit like coming. Out to your parents? Ohh, so she was. She was. It was a very deliberate piece to say hey, it’s like that. She’s not saying that Remy is, you know.  Dion  So coming out.  Ardella  I mean, could be you go off in your head cannons out there.  Dion  To your friends. Also coming coming out to your friends who have literally been trained to murder. You.  Speaker 13  Your your partner.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  For the whole thing.  Speaker 4  Yes.  Dion  Look, I like the little bit of the sort of Buffy the Vampire Slayer chosen. Ones. You know, how do we do this? We just kind of go and kill these faithless demons which there are thousands and thousands and thousands of them, apart from the very special one.  Quinny  Yeah, very.  Dion  That ohh wait. Yes. Yes. So you know I got that sort of storyline.  Ardella  Although I do think that there is a pot, I mean obviously we see Janus. Progression where he was genuinely villainous. He was * ****. Wow, what * **** we learned.  Dion  Sure. What is it again with? Absolutely ancient men and young women.  Jill  That’s like type.  Speaker 4  Being like can.  Ardella  You I I just want to be rich and wealthy at the expense of my family. What a ******* nightmare, human. But then.  Speaker  And.  Ardella  Obviously evolves and become someone who we can genuinely sympathise with, I think, but I feel like we also, especially in that scene, I think Jill, you mentioned the the signing scene, we see a lot of the other members of the Demon Boy Band of the Sargent Boys.  Speaker 4  Yeah, yeah.  Ardella  Have a little bit more personality and a little bit more empathy, I think, than I was expecting and I I would be interested to see that explored a bit more. As well, yeah.  Speaker 1  Hmm.  Quinny  One thing I do love is also the the historical mythological context of it too, that the the idea of the the Singing priestess is is quite a a long history in Korean culture. So the moon or mudang not mudang. Are a an offshoot of of Korean shamanism who their their whole thing was, you know, singing to keep their people safe and, you know, reach out and and bridge the world between gods and humans and so forth. And you see that at the at the very start, like there’s the flashback to the original ones. They’re they’re all traditional like priestess outfits. But then the fact that they’re, you know, really latching into the the Korean singing group thing. You know that there was another group in the 50s and the 60s called the the Kim Sisters. Who group of three well known all around the world, appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show. Did like 22 shows over the years on Ed Sullivan. Like that kind of thing. We’re going. Yes, we’re gonna do it. I love the idea that we could have, you know, stories told in different time frames.  Ardella  Yeah. And before the Kim’s sisters, there was the Jair Gory sisters. I think it’s pronounced and they were also a three piece girl band who we assume is kind of being referenced in that introduction as well.  Dion  Can can we just make sure that we even if we go across different time periods they still kill demo? That’s right. Yes, as long as there’s still some demon hunting and killing going on in there. I’m fine. I’m on board with it.  Ardella  Like.  Quinny  100%.  Speaker 4  Absolutely.  Ardella  100 percent, 100% yeah. I also need to mention I’m sure many of us already know this, but Saja as the name of the Saja boys also has multiple meanings. It means lion.  Dion  Yeah, yeah.  Ardella  But it is also a kind of slang term for the grim Reaper. So there’s that duality there. So that’s that’s why they have the lion like logo. That’s what they’re saying. That’s the that’s the loud part. They’re like, we’re the Lion Boys essentially, but.  Speaker 2  Oh.  Quinny  I didn’t know.  Dion  That, and also dark and mysterious.  Quinny  And.  Ardella  It’s also. Through. Yeah, slang for the grim Reaper in South Korea.  Quinny  And I don’t think I would have understood or appreciated this film if I hadn’t for the past couple of years had an awful lot to do with idol culture like, yeah, but I I’ve learned a lot in the past few years of working for idol festivals and, you know. The whole idol scene and. And. Something that I find fascinating and is really like key to the film, but it’s sort of unless you’ve seen the crowds doing their thing in person. The relationship between crowd and band. Is incredibly intense. Like and the crowds at these events are not. Just, you know, observers, they’re part of the show and they see their role really importantly, you know, all of the glow glowing sticks that they’re holding up all of the colours that they choose to wear, the fact that they, you know, stand a particular singer or whatever and will then change the.  Ardella  They’re bias.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah. You know, they will do all these things and like, you’ll see them during songs. Like I watch them at smash people climbing up on each other’s shoulders just so that they can. Performatively go. You know, I’m not actually singing at you. I’m just showing you how much I appreciate what you’re doing. Is like if you don’t know about it, you’re gonna think it’s ******* weird as ****, which I did for a while, but then when you see it, you go ohh. OK, I get it. And now I watch this film and you realize why so much time is spent with the fandom as well, like. They they spend a lot of time, you know, looking at the the kinds of fans who have latched on to these people. Is it the the sex starved older ladies? Is it the preteen girls who are just utterly, you know, smitten? Is it the big boofy guys who will cry at the drop of a hat? You know, all of that is.  Ardella  I think it’s interesting, though, to suggest that it’s just a AK pop thing or a J pop thing or something like that where you have these biases when you think about, you know, kiss people would wear their specific band members makeup style to go to a kiss concert. It’s it’s a similar.  Quinny  Oh, not at all.  Speaker 4  Yeah, it’s just all.  Jill  About finding community and the things that. You love, yeah.  Quinny  Yeah. Really. And. And it’s also like I remember I wanted to write a ******* paper on this at one point. It’s the the concept of avatar rism that you wear the thing that you want to take on the, the, the, the feeling of you know, so.  Jill  Dude, I’ve done it for 20 years doing cosplay.  Speaker 13  Exactly. Hello cosplay? Yeah.  Quinny  And cosplay is cosplay is like the the the doing it out loud and doing it at the biggest possible way. But for other people it’s that whole thing of wearing your favorite band T-shirt or wearing a Superman T-shirt or wearing, you know something. It’s that thing of.  Jill  Yeah.  Quinny  This gives me all these feelings. And I want to then wear it so that I can try and, you know.  Jill  Yeah. Now, name five of their. Songs.  Ardella  Jesus.  Speaker 4  Yeah.  Ardella  And when you bring that all together, it really is. Powerful and I.  Quinny  Hmm.  Ardella  Think that that’s what they’re they’re tapping into on both sides here where you know that it can be used for good or for evil.  Quinny  Yeah. And. And the idea that a golden home moon only comes when, like, everybody’s actually being true about who they are, you know, that’s a it’s a pretty powerful ******* feeling. Yeah.  Speaker  Beautiful.  Dion  Yeah, beautiful. Speaking of powerful feelings. What are we doing for the rest of? The month, I don’t know. You don’t. You don’t know. Even though you you know exactly what it is. We’ve got a few things. There’s a lot going on in the month of the Merry, Merry month of August. We’ve got lots of movies that are out there. Things like nobody too.  Quinny  I do have a do in front of.  Dion  And one that we’re gonna see tomorrow night, which is. Weapons.  Quinny  Yeah.  Dion  You need the weapon. Give me the yeah. OK.  Ardella  I saw an ad for weapon the other night which just said 100% on Rotten Tomatoes and it was a print ad and I was like that. That’s a that’s a strong choice.  Dion  Yeah.  Speaker 1  Hmm.  Jill  From the team that brought us barbarian.  Dion  Yeah.  Jill  He ******* loves barbarian.  Dion  Yeah, that was. That was one that came out of left field w

Superman (2025) Look, up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Is it another confused entry into the DC Extended Universe pantheon of super hero films?! No!!! This is something else entirely! James Gunn (Peacemaker, Guardians of the Galaxy) takes on the D.C. Universe with Superman and is clearly building something new and different… but crucially; is it any good? It's made a butt-tonne of cash, and out-scored the Snyder-verse it is taking over from, but does it have a beating heart? There’s some division in the ranks over this one, with everyone having a very different approach to this film that is not just rebooting a universe, but attempting to wash away some of the bad vibes of 12 years of questionable decisions. The whole team is in for this with Dion and Jill in our legion of Doom and Quinny and Peta suiting up as the Justice Gang. You will believe a podcast can fly!!! Synopsis When Superman gets drawn into conflicts at home and abroad, his actions are questioned, giving tech billionaire Lex Luthor the opportunity to get the Man of Steel out of the way for good. Will intrepid reporter Lois Lane and Superman’s four-legged companion, Krypto, be able to help him before it’s too late? https://youtu.be/4x2C9DIB9Fo A huge shout-out to the beautiful, punk as heck, loveable super crew (and their little dog too) who join in with our moderated live-chat during the Twitch stream, each Tuesday night at 7:30pm AEST. And especially to those who have decided to drop some gold kryptonite in the tip jar. Thanks for supporting us directly via our Ko-Fi jar and now also by subscribing on Twitch! You ALL rock! If you like what we do, drop us a sub!  Every bit of your support helps us to (hopefully) keep entertaining you and making more emotes! Don’t fret if you can’t be there for the recording though as you can catch them on Youtube usually later that very night. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss them! https://youtu.be/Ox8ZLF6cGM0?si=bnRJecS390QIPkMD WE WANT YOUR FEEDBACK! Send in voicemails or emails with your opinions on this show (or any others) to info@theperiodictableofawesome.com Please make sure to join our social networks too!  We’re on: Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TPToA/ Twitter: www.twitter.com/TPToA Facebook: www.facebook.com/PeriodicTableOfAwesome Instagram: www.instagram.com/theperiodictableofawesome/   Full text transcript Dion  Ohh hello and welcome to the periodic table levels. I mean it’s feel good Wednesday night that we’re doing this very special time of Wednesday night. My name is Deon and I’m joined by Peter, Jill and Quinny. And tonight we’re going to be doing. Superman, thanks. Thanks for joining in, but yeah.  Speaker  Yay.  Quinny  OK, great. So look up in this look.  Speaker 5  Moving up a thing.  Peta  If if you want us In Sync like you have to discuss it with. This. Beforehand. No, no, no, no, no, no.  Quinny  Yeah. Just give us a pause and then look at. Us meaningfully. Yeah, well.  Peta  Yes, otherwise our incredible lack of planning is even more obvious.  Speaker 5  All gangs here. Yes. Thank you, Casper. In the chat? Yeah. Whole gangs here and people in. The chat are there, yeah.  Speaker  Day.  Speaker 5  We’re all back. We’re doing this now. You know, finally, the summer blockbuster we’ve all been waiting for. Superman.  Quinny  I’m. I’m excited. I’m super excited.  Dion  Look. You are super excited. No, no, Superman. So parse we’re on to Fantastic Four now, that’s the next new hotness.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah. Well, I mean, I don’t have, I don’t have my glasses to give. You Deon, but yeah.  jill  Yeah. We had our own personal Pedro Pascal last night. We didn’t need no premiere.  Dion  That’s.  Speaker 9  No. Yes. When the girl. The girl that Porto was so excited.  Quinny  Did we? Did we premiere? It was just a. It’s the best thing ever.  Dion  For like 30 seconds and then she was back to serving hot fresh chicken as fast.  Quinny  The the look on this young lady’s face, though, and she was like, OK, you want an Oporto burger? What?  Speaker 9  Yeah. Are you here for this?  Speaker 10  Sure.  Dion  Yeah, yeah. Look, you know, no, it’s not. It’s not me. Pablo Pascal Pablo Pascal, the team Umm Pedro.  jill  The team U version? Yeah.  Quinny  You’re you’re like Orlando blooms. All the color bloom.  Dion  The fat cousin? Yeah, in Pensacola. We all know these things. It’s fine. We’re not there to talk about this. We’re.  Quinny  I’m.  Speaker 5  Happy to talk about.  Dion  Superman, aren’t we focus. Focus back on this. We’re here to talk about Superman. Lex Luthor, Lois Lane and no one else.  Quinny  Right. OK, right.  Speaker 11  Quinny  Talking about the rest of the. Characters.  Dion  No, no, no, just those three. That’s it. OK, that’s what we agreed to right in the pre production meeting. Yeah, that you all attended. I sent you that invitation.  Speaker  Right.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  Dion  No, it’s.  Peta  A joke all of the notes we make, all the proof we do like, yeah.  Dion  Yeah, yeah, you’re right.  Speaker 3  Yeah.  Dion  Yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s 15 hours of. Yeah, it’s, it’s it’s 15 hours of prep work for each hour long show.  jill  The slide deck we built.  Speaker  So.  Dion  Shows doesn’t.  Speaker  It.  Quinny  Sometimes it does feel a bit.  jill  Don’t. You’re reminding me why I stopped doing Animaniacs.  Speaker 5  Ohh.  Quinny  I mean, you know, you’re not wrong.  Speaker 12  Yeah.  Dion  Can we focus on this? Come on, buddy. OK, guys, up here. Let’s go podcast. Alright.  Peta  Right.  Quinny  I’m I’m doing really important stuff.  Dion  We’re. Sick man. Yeah. All right. Last week we had the distinct pleasure of going to see Superman. We did. Water brothers. And. It was a big thing.  Speaker  Wasn’t it?  Quinny  That’s a big thing. How do we all feel?  Dion  Who’s the biggest super fan?  Quinny  Ohh, there’s a good question.  Dion  There here.  Quinny  Yeah. I’m. I’m. I’m big fan of Superman. Love the original 78 film. Probably was, I don’t know for for me, he’s always just been there because of things like super friends, you know? But. I don’t know. I don’t know whether I’d call myself a massive Superman fan, I don’t know.  jill  Yeah, I gotta say, not my favorite superhero. I’m a I’m a Batman girl.  Quinny  I I know this about you.  Dion  Right.  Speaker 9  Yeah. But Superman is there.  Dion  She likes some dark, dark, gritty and rich.  Speaker 12  Yeah.  Quinny  Not traumatised.  Dion  Not, not corn fed worthy and alien.  jill  Look, I do have a new boyfriend and his name is David Cornstein.  Dion  I also have.  jill  We haven’t met yet, but.  Speaker 12  Reviewed.  Dion  I also have a new boyfriend and that is the Star Wars fan David coins, so you know. Yes.  Quinny  Mm-hmm.  Speaker  Quinny  Yeah, David, David, corn sweat. Who said what? What would you like to build? And he said, give me a *******. Lego kit. Yeah, like he, he’s like I want a Superman Lego kit now, like.  Dion  Did you see? Did you see him on the lie detector test where they asked the question of which one would you prefer to do the sequel? The the sequels for Superman or to change and go to become the like into the Star Wars universe and?  jill  Go to Star Wars, yeah.  Dion  He was like.  jill  He’s like, well, they already have me on a contract for another Superman. So I’ll say yes to the Star Wars. Yeah, I’ll take both.  Speaker 3  Yeah.  Quinny  Good answer.  Dion  Peter. Peter, as a lifelong super fan.  Quinny  Mm-hmm.  Dion  Do you? Do you? Would you consider yourself the Superman, Stan?  Peta  I mean, Stan would be taking it a bit far. I I’m I’m not. I I don’t dislike Superman. I think. I mean, my first experience with Superman was the old opening title sequence from the old TV show. You know, and then well, is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s Superman. Which was the only thing we knew about Superman for a little while. So when we played Superman and Wonder Woman.  Quinny  Hang on, which which old TV show? All right.  Peta  Superman could be a bird or a plane, or faster earth speeding bullet, and that was it. That’s all we had. We did not grow up with comics. We grew up with sound bites. And then Lewis and Clark, and he ain’t he ain’t no one Superman anymore, so I’m happy. I’m happy for a new Superman. I mean, I I, I you know. Yeah, I I was excited for Henry at the time but.  Quinny  Yes. No, what a ********.  Speaker  Peta  Wasn’t a fan of the dark?  Speaker 3  MHM.  Peta  The dark reboot. Didn’t some somebody who knows nothing really about the character just didn’t feel right to try to dark reboot? Superman didn’t didn’t really work for me, so I’ve I’ve I jumped off the Super train and.  Speaker 9  Hmm.  Quinny  So so you’re trying to tell me that you you weren’t big on Man of Steel, didn’t get into Batman versus Superman and then didn’t love Justice League? Is that what I’m hearing?  Peta  I didn’t watch Justice League. I didn’t watch Batman versus Superman because when it comes to DC movies, I wait for you guys to watch them and then you tell me if I should watch them. And that’s usually how it goes. Yeah. Wait, who was who was the one that was before Henry and like? 2000 and.  Speaker 11  Brandon, Ralph. Yes, Brandon. Ralph. Yeah.  Speaker  Peta  Yeah, yeah, I like chicks.  jill  I will die on that hill. Yeah, I loved that.  Peta  Movie. I like that movie. I saw it. I saw it like in an IMAX theatre in Minnesota or something.  Dion  Yeah. And it was also shot in Sydney.  jill  Yes, it was. And my my 6° of separation I don’t know how many degrees this makes it, but my father changed the traffic lights in the Sydney CBD to American traffic lights so they could film the scenes in the street.  Quinny  Nice. Yeah, right.  Dion  That’s definitely about 6:00 because he didn’t actually interact with anyone.  Speaker 11  He worked. He worked on the film. He did.  Quinny  Sure. We we did work on the.  Dion  Film it’s true, it’s true. So you gotta you’ve gotta count. Like, who was that then? Who was the person he spoke to that was closest to speaking to Brandon ramp?  Speaker 9  Work on the film. Yeah, I’ll let’s just say 3, that’s great.  Quinny  Great. Look, my degrees of separation with Brandon Ralph is one. I’ve met him. Yeah, he’s a very nice man. I really.  Dion  Queen, we’ve talked that.  Quinny  Liked that? He.  Speaker 11  I bet he’s.  Dion  That’s technically considered.  Quinny  He’s super ******* tall.  Dion  Yeah. OK. And he has vegan power.  Quinny  He does have amazing like.  Dion  Because he he’s part of the vegan police. No, wait. He got his head, then stripped.  Quinny  Yes, yes. Because he had cheese at some point, got some Scott Pilgrim.  Dion  That’s right. This is all Scott Pilgrim work. OK, fine. But he’s also got another DC superhero, hasn’t he? In the TV.  jill  Yeah, he’s been the.  Dion  Adam. Yeah. Anyway, more away from Superman. Don’t forget that that the the Superman movie.  Speaker 11  But he did replay.  jill  Superman in the Elseworlds stuff in.  Quinny  Yes. Yeah, he was the the Kingdom come version of Superman, which I ******* loved.  Speaker  Yes.  Dion  So the last time we saw Superman on screen was in the post credit sequence of Black Adam. You forgot about that one, didn’t you?  Speaker 11  Yes, we did. Nope, unfortunately.  Dion  Which was Henry Cavill’s reintroduction into the DC Universe, only to be told very politely. I hope by James Gunn. Nope. Go on. Go on a different direction. So yeah, man.  Speaker  Ohh yeah. Ouch.  Dion  Yeah, but first up though. Like, I mean before we.  Peta  He’s doing all right. He’ll be fine, OK?  Dion  Get too. Before we get too into it, do we have a a synopsis about this new Superman and do you have any requests of the type of accent that what should accent should Quinney be doing it in?  jill  I’ll do it on the timing news guy.  Peta  I was going to say manic tech bro, but yeah, no. We’ve we’ve had many tech bro recently so.  Quinny  Yeah, right. OK. OK, we, we got we got a musical thing on this one. Dion  No worries. Oh yeah, why not? There you go.  Speaker 13  Quinny  I can’t hear it, but I really want. To do when it. When it hits the its stride.  Speaker 13  When Superman gets drawn into conflict at home and abroad, his actions are questioned, giving tech billionaire Lex Luther the opportunity to get the Man of Steel out of the way for good will. Intrepid reporter Lois Lane and Superman’s 4 legged companion crypto be able to help him before it’s too late. Find out in Superman 2025.  Dion  I don’t give a **** the original music’s. Still banging? Yeah.  Peta  I mean that that that’s that. That’s the most fun **** accent we’ve had in a long time. It was barely even.  Quinny  Good.  Peta  Ship quinny. I don’t know.  Dion  Yeah. There we go. People are saying that’s that’s that’s one of your best.  Quinny  That was actually. Vaguely close to what I was aiming for. ******* terrifying.  Speaker 5  Yeah. All right, so.  Quinny  Yes. So here we are, James Gunn. After being ceremony unceremoniously booted from the Marvel Universe and then welcomed back to it so we can do. The end of his trilogy, but during that that brief period of booting was essentially said. Ohh well, if they don’t want you we we’ll give you like. All this other ****. And he then went and made Suicide Squad. And then. Was essentially given the keys to the Kingdom and said you can make your DC.  jill  I’ll tell you what you can fit so many James Gunn elements in this bad boy you’ve got. Kaiju size aliens. You’ve got a quirky, lovable animal. You’ve got deep cut comic book characters. You’ve got obscure version of a mainstream character and.  Speaker 3  Mm-hmm.  jill  The pistol resistance. The one shot fight sequence.  Quinny  Yes, yes, swoopy camera that does all of the the swooping Ness. Yeah, and lots of fisheye lens stuff.  jill  Not much. Snoopy ******* camera in this film. Yeah, besides the fight scene, a lot of swoopy camera.  Quinny  Yeah. So, yes, what do we do? We like James Gunn as a director. I look, I OK I do. I like James Gunn. I’m gonna say that. But feel free to tell me what you all think.  jill  I mean, I found all of the guardians of the Galaxy films very enjoyable. I do like his, you know, I guess you would call it his vision that he. Makes in his films, you know, he’s. Got a very. Clear aesthetic and it’s like a comedy slant on. Serious issues I guess, but also very heartfelt. Yeah, he tends to put a. Lot of himself in his movies and actually crypto is based on his dog.  Quinny  Yeah, who is very bad dog. Yeah, but I love him nonetheless.  jill  So yeah, I I like James Gunn films.  Speaker 2  Hmm.  Quinny  Pete, where are you at with our J?  Peta  No, I mean I I don’t have super strong feelings, but I don’t think I’ve ever been. Mad at them.  jill  Not even for the tweets that he’s trying to redeem himself from.  Peta  I would have to be reminded a a bit, but.  Dion  Or you can find them, but it’s someone who is like 20.  Peta  I was gonna say it’s like, well in the past. And he’s been like ohh, that was bad, right? Yes, he hasn’t. He hasn’t been like, sorry if you’re offended. No. No. OK, well, then that’s like, people make mistakes when they’re young.  Speaker  Yes.  jill  He’s probably 1. Of the rare people that came away from an attempted cancelling but yeah.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, I would agree with that. Like I think he. Was able to do the the thing of going own it say yeah, that was me. That was back then. I don’t agree with this **** now. I I let my record of the last how many films I’ve made be my kind of my statement as to what kind of a person. I am now. Which I kind of agree with. I think he I think what he’s trying to say most of the time is generally the right thing Ding.  Peta  Ohh, he was he was saying stuff quite loudly this time. But Oh yeah.  Quinny  My God.  Dion  I’ve been a fan of James Gunn’s work since PG ****. Which you might. Yeah, I know. Right. People like wait. What? Yeah, he did a thing called PG **** for Spike TV. She was always great because always cut away before any of the real **** happened. It was quite great. And Nathan fillion’s. In. It if you ever wanted that. So you go look that up. Look, he’s kind of hit and miss, but you know. I like that he came from a very do-it-yourself roots sort of thing, working with chroma when he when he hits his stride really well is is in great filming. Like, you know, some of his films are are actually quite fun and exciting. And he he brings the. UMI think? Sense of joy and a bit of wonder and a bit of stupidity to kind of every single film that he’s in that he does. So yeah, I mean when this was announced that he was gonna be doing Superman or, you know, heading DC into a new direction, I was like, huh, OK can be a bit, Sammy, with your your stuff because you’ve got your formula, which works. And you you’ve been hammering out the same way for a few times, but alright, let’s let’s go see what you’re gonna do with this one. I’ll give it a go. You seem to make. Paining things which is. Exciting. And also he’s happy to. You know, as with peacemaker and suicide, the Suicide Squad. Sorry. He’s happy to to. You’d be a bit creative with what’s going on by not talking about specific characters, but by building a story around misfits and things you wouldn’t really think of. He likes the latitude, I think, rather have to go down the thing like. I mean, I wouldn’t really want to watch James Gunn’s bat.  Speaker 9  Ohh God no, no.  Dion  Was it? Yeah, it’d be a bit. It’d be a bit strange, but James Gunn’s Lobo could work. Yeah.  Quinny  No. I and I think this I think a lot of people were fairly concerned or at least trepidatious about James Gunn, Superman, because what we’ve seen him do before now has always been about. Outsiders, misfits. You know, like peacemaker, people who are not necessarily good people. You know, the the guardians of the Galaxy are all not necessarily good people. So how does how is it going to play? When he is. You know very much, looking at a paragon, you know, how do we deal with somebody who is just straight up good?  Speaker  MHM.  Quinny  You know, is he gonna be able to handle that and personally? I thought he did.  jill  Yeah. Well, I think what aided him was having a a periphery of weirdos. Yeah, yeah.  Quinny  Goofy ********.  Dion  Gotta admit, I was one of the people who was like.  Speaker  Hmm.  Speaker 5  Who is they?  jill  Yes, we all exclaimed after the movie when Dion said, who was that? Who was that? Who was that? And yeah, we said pick up.  Quinny  Yeah.  jill  A DC comic.  Peta  Book. See I’m. I’m. I’m just used to that experience so it.  Speaker  Yes. Yeah.  Peta  Doesn’t bother me. I don’t know who any of these people are. I know Luther. I know, Lois. I know Superman. Yeah, Jimmy.  Quinny  Thank you. Jimmy Olsen.  Peta  That’s.  Speaker  It.  Quinny  So. So Dion, you’ve never run across Mr. Terrific before? Nope, never run across the garden before.  Dion  Now what now?  Quinny  Who was the chick with Wings Hawk girl?  Dion  Ohh and then there was the other one that did.  jill  Come on.  Quinny  Metamorpho.  Dion  No.  Quinny  Right, I guess. Here’s here’s the thing. This is an unashamedly comic book loving movie. Yeah. And the characters that they are choosing to.  Dion  But. Knew the dog.  Quinny  Difference are not just the big triumvirate, not the what do they call them? The big three? Yeah, they’re, they’re they’re. They’re not the big three. They’re not the Justice League. This is the other guys. It’s green. Not just a Green Lantern. It’s the Green Lantern. That everybody.  Dion  Justice gang.  jill  Hates the ******* worst.  Quinny  The ******** Green Lantern with the.  Dion  Worst hair? No, that was that was the Ryan Reynolds one.  Peta  Yeah.  Quinny  It can get worse. You know it’s it’s Mr. Terrific who is, you know, the lot. People have seen him in recent years. He did show up in Arrow as a as a recurring character, but probably not in a way that people would go. Oh, there’s there’s somebody who needs to be on a big screen.  Dion  I had the same reaction when I saw polka dot man. I was like, OK, fine. But then I was watching this going I I don’t know why. Why does Superman even talk to these people? Aren’t they beneath him?  jill  Yeah.  Quinny  No, please.  Peta  Welcome to my side of the fence there.  Dion  It was weird over there.  Quinny  One thing I will say I do think the film look, I’m I’m putting my my word out there right now. I enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was a lot of fun and really, really enjoyable and hit a lot of emotional notes. But the phrase that I have used to describe it to a few people is silly. Like it is willfully silly. And occasionally goofy. And when it does, big action sequences and stuff it it really leans into this, the kind of silliness of. Ridiculous superpowers. You know you can have 100 flying jetpack goons attach themselves to Superman, and he will just spin like a a top and then they all go flying and it’s it’s cartoon world. Whereas. The the other thing is it’s silly, but at the same time it’s very grounded in its emotions.  jill  Yes, yes, I would agree with you.  Speaker 10  Yeah.  Quinny  And I remember watching it and thinking, oh, that one’s going to be that’s going to be divisive.  Dion  Like the whole thing.  Quinny  And. Yeah, the the whole film, because honestly, I think. If you.  jill  But isn’t it? Isn’t it just dividing like people with empathy and ********?  Quinny  But that’s not what I thought was gonna happen. I thought it was going to divide people into people who wanted us a a more serious take on a superhero. Ohh. OK and people.  Speaker  Oh.  Quinny  Who were just like, yeah, comic book superhero, bright colors, Superman robots, you know, crypto.  jill  Yeah, that’s what kind of makes it hard for me to recommend to people because my parents love to watch movies. They like the superhero stuff, and so my mum was like, how was Superman? I said.  Speaker 9  Ohh it was, it was fun.  jill  But at the same time, I’m thinking you’re not going to get half of the references in this film. Like it’s definitely not built for a layman. Peta  You don’t. You don’t need to get the references for it to be fun, though. I think if if you had to get the references.  jill  I feel like 75% of it is references.  Peta  For it to be fun.  Quinny  I mean. Are you? Maybe you need.  Peta  To get into the spirit of it, like I’d never heard it, I didn’t know Superman. Had the dog, but.  Speaker 11  Yeah.  Speaker 13  The Super Dog never had a crypto and never heard.  Peta  Of crypto, but I would say that that that was like the the film signalled what it was very big, very quickly from the beginning in terms of tone and kind of used crypto to do that. And and given I didn’t even watch the trailer for this, I was like, just like we’re going. To see the. New Superman Film Zero other information except for that one still that got released ages ago. I did not know what we were going internally. So so it took that for me to be like, ah, OK, this is where we are. This is what we’re expecting. That’s cool. But like, it didn’t bother me that I’ve never heard of crypto before. Didn’t bother me that I never heard of that particular version of the Green Lantern before, although the head did confuse, confuse me a lot.  Quinny  The volcano.  Peta  Well, maybe because I’m often watching these things with people who do more comics than me. I’m just very used to not getting most of the references and being like along. For the ride.  Quinny  Fair Tari in the chat, saying that the trailer makes it look serious. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that.  Peta  I mean, there’s definitely got serious elements and serious themes. It’s it’s got a serious take, but it it it has a lens of comedy that makes it. It’s very clear from the beginning and that’s what it is. I did find it totally tricky, to be honest. Like I enjoyed the silliness. I enjoyed the comedy, but. I couldn’t quite get my stride in for like. Good first half of the movie. Just totally I I I couldn’t. I couldn’t quite get my hooks into. Into. Where it was and I don’t know if it’s because it didn’t feel. Like if it was like the first episode of A. New TV series. It would have been perfect. There was just something tonally about it that didn’t that didn’t, or maybe it was structurally, that didn’t feel like cinema esque to me.  jill  There was a moment. In the first half of the film, where I did like, make a comment to myself where I was like, this doesn’t really feel like it has a lot of substance. Like it kind of struggles with the message that it wants to convey and. Being comedic like, I don’t know that any of the serious moments really. I don’t know, it held. You long enough to connect. If that makes sense.  Quinny  In in the first half or in. The whole film in.  jill  The whole film I I I there.  Quinny  Were a few moments where I I was really tuned into the series and the emotional like there are a couple of bits with his parents that I was just like, oh Jesus Christ, that that got me right in the in the fields. I.  jill  Don’t know, just some of the some of it just felt rushed. I’m like, it feels like. It’s trying to rush through. These serious beats, or these emotional moments to to get to the next comedy bit, I don’t know.  Quinny  It definitely felt like it was. It was rushing through stuff, agreed. Like there are, there are points where it sort of introduces a concept and then.  Speaker  Hmm.  Quinny  You kind of rushed through to the bit where it’s suddenly the next big. Crisis or whatever.  jill  Yeah.  Quinny  And yeah, it’s. It’s it. It feels like it’s at breakneck pace, kind of a lot of the way through.  jill  Yeah, I was tempted to actually try and catch it again before we chatted. I just to get another go at it.  Quinny  You’ve been very blocky.  Speaker 2  Hmm.  Dion  Look. I mean, I’m down for stuff. And I’m down for all of this thing. But I mean, my one take away that I had for it is ohh, it’s Superman movie. It’s not for me. Like I watched it and I was like, I was there for this. I saw all this just like, I mean, I thought there were. There were bits that that they did, which I really got and I really believed. I thought they, like, knocked it out of the park. I was like, I’m 100% here for certain things, like, certain interpersonal relationships, certain kind of scenes and ideas. I was like, that is. Like, that’s beautiful. You’ve really nailed it and it shows what you’re trying to do. And then there were other stuff there that I was like, why is this? Part. Of this, this doesn’t need to be part of this. I’m slightly confused about where this is all sitting in relation to. It seems like there was a Justice League, but there has been something that happens that has, I know, but this is I’m talking about how I interpreted stuff I was like. I feel like, oh, there was a Justice League for a while there, but now there’s not really a Justice League. But now there’s something else going on, like it was like, oh, we’re we’re going and there’s a world and it’s happening. And some things you won’t know because you haven’t. We haven’t explained, but we’re not going to. You’re just gonna move forward with this. And I was like, OK, that’s all right. I can sort of get on board with it. But it felt like I was being missing critical pieces of information. And then also like, oh, I don’t understand why these other characters are there. This seems like it’s all very haphazard. Some characters are completely underutilised.  Quinny  Examples.  Dion  Like a hot girl, I thought she was. She was pointless if you took her out. I don’t think anything would be missing. There’s no. And that’s a shame because you know, like you want every character. Yeah. Yeah. You want all that stuff to be there?  Quinny  Great actors, but also cool characters.  Dion  Yeah, and and. But to did it look cool in this? Nope. I can say distinctly that I looked at every time she was on screen. Like, ohh. It’s kind of dull. This is a bit better in Black, Adam. I know, right? OK. That was called man. Was it?  Speaker 9  That was.  Dion  One girl. Well, one of them was in. Wasn’t there a hawk girl in one or something?  Quinny  There was a hawk girl in legends of.  jill  Mine.  Quinny  Tomorrow. Sure. Yeah.  Dion  You don’t. I don’t do a lot of DC. Sorry. I wasn’t really a DC person, but I get. Some of the.  Quinny  Ideas. I realize now that I actually am more of a DPDC person than I.  Dion  I had to say.  Quinny  Thought I was.  Dion  I I was so angry when I walked out because one of the things I said quietly to Quinney was like, I’m so so pisssed off because I feel like I need to defend the Snyder verse slightly. And I was angry with my and I still am. I’m still kind of angry with this. I was like, ohh, there’s some things that Snyder verse did a lot better, but I really want to enjoy. The.  Speaker 2  Did.  Dion  This new one I just kind of went. I don’t I I don’t. You know, I think ultimately what I want is I don’t want a Superman movie with all these other people. I just want a Superman movie. Just give me Superman and Lois. And maybe legs loose or throw him in. Sure, he’s OK, but I don’t. I didn’t need the rest. Yeah, and it was.  Speaker 3  Hmm.  jill  Yeah, I will just say for the chat, those that haven’t seen it yet, we’re kind of thrown into the midst of an unfolding situation. There’s there’s not really a beginning, middle and end to it. It’s where where. Thrown into a situation. And it kind of never gets out of that for the whole film. We just always seem to be in a moment and there’s no explanation to, like, some of this stuff. And like I can. Make my way through the movie with plenty of context clues. That’s fine, but I would have loved to have had more moments completely fleshed out and.  Peta  Yeah, be a.  jill  Little bit more on. Board with what’s actually going on, especially like the relationship around Clark and his coworker. I don’t really feel like I got to see a lot of Clarke. Even Lois didn’t really feel fully formed for me and I really have one complaint about her character is that she did not do any journalism. She she was discovered some photos.  Speaker 3  Hmm.  Quinny  Yeah.  jill  By via somebody else and then was able to piece together what was actually happening. In the plot that Superman is trying to uncover. So for me, not a great lowest, even though I love Rachel Brosnahan.  Dion  It’s gonna it’s gonna make absolutely every single journalist who actually does work in research like this scream internally more.  jill  Yeah, but unfortunately I think a lot of modern journalism is just being lucky.  Quinny  Like this so.  Dion  Yeah. No, but like this, this is the thing because it’s kind of I just want to like put that out. It’s going literally. Entire crew of journalists is is together to how do they release the stories like great, we’ll do it on the fly and then they’re doing it like by editing on their. Phones and sending an e-mail and.  Quinny  No, that that is ******* great cause I actually saw a journalist say my favorite part of this movie was Jimmy Publishing the story through a CMS accurately.  Dion  Ohh. Yeah, yeah, sure. But I mean doing. It doing it while they’re running around going. Ohh yeah, it’s ready. Goes press send. Now we have to do it. I’m like.  jill  Yeah, go live.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah. And published too. Social publish.  Peta  In other news, Jimmy can get it apart.  Speaker 11  Like Oh yeah.  Quinny  Sorry.  Speaker 9  Oh.  Peta  Oh no, my. Life.  Quinny  Apparently, yeah. Jimmy lays more cable than anyone in this book. And. I don’t think anyone knows why.  Dion  Jimmy does, and Jimmy needs some.  Quinny  Yeah, Jim. Jimmy. Eat world. Ohh wow.  Dion  Jimmy. Jimmy gets it.  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, I I agree. I think like I I will come to the defense of the movie in a lot of cases because there’s a lot of it that I think is a lot of fun. And you know, the thing that I love about it is that it’s it’s it plays well to kids like the and the Minecraft.  Dion  Of movie.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  But how nice is it to to see a kid wanting to play with a Superman toy as opposed to if I could Minecraft toy anyway? But yeah, like that, that stuff with the the people in the daily Planet definitely feels a bit undercooked. Like you’ve got Cat Grant there who? Is, you know there you know what she does.  jill  Yeah. And then you got. Like a couple of other random reporters, I’m like.  Quinny  You got Steve Lombardo there.  jill  Yeah, why don’t.  Quinny  Who just seems like a ********. Yeah. And they were. Yeah. I love the relationship between Lois and Clark, though. Like, yeah, like.  Speaker  Hey.  jill  Yeah, well, what was it, Clark or was? It Superman, yes.  Dion  Yeah, I it’s, I said, like I really was on board with that. I thought the dynamic between Lois and Clark or Cael, like all of that. Was great. Like I went. Yep, they’re definitely cool, funny people who are trying to work out a relationship in this world that they’ve got around them. And I really got it. And I was like hats. Off to them. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And then there was other things. Like the **** is Mr. Terrific and why does. He have balls.  Speaker 9  They’re tears, fears, tears, fears.  Speaker 12  Yeah, man. Dion  Sure. I mean, you know and it’s it would be alright? Well, like what is the engineer? Why is she dangerous? I don’t.  Speaker  Oh, I’m so I don’t know. Yeah.  jill  They told you she has nanobots.  Dion  You know bots. Yeah, but I. Mean **** that. I mean, there are some. There are some annoying things about comic book movies because you know what? We were all annoyed by the giant sky beam and this one, thankfully, just let you all know there is no giant sky beam, no sky beam. There’s a giant.  jill  There is an underground Fight Club.  Dion  Yes, and the giant. And there’s a giant. There’s a giant crack.  Peta  Yeah.  Dion  Which is the same thing as the giant sky, but it has the same yeah.  Quinny  It’s the exact opposite, in fact.  Peta  It’s a giant wall destroying rift. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Dion  And it’s made of bismuth. Yeah. What the **** is going on with that? It was just.  jill  Yeah.  Dion  Yes, and as until a joke that came later, which was? Oh, yes. Lex Luthor was just a businessman.  Speaker  No.  Dion  Gone. No, exactly. For people going the the the, the, the, the big Destructo thing that whatever is happening, it looks like it’s just macro views of bismuth for me.  jill  Yeah. Do we like Nicholas? Holt’s performance as like we thought.  Peta  I always like Nicholas Holt, so I’m I I I I can’t have that conversation.  Dion  Why not? He got paid $2,000,000. For this film.  Peta  Good for him. Is that all?  Dion  Yes, but do you know how much Superman got paid? The same as Lois, but less, but much less.  jill  A million million.  Dion  700 they 7 they got.  jill  Ohh really? He got the he got the pretty privilege he got. Ohh.  Dion  750 tags each. Yeah, but they also both within written into it that they they had a lower fee because they have a back end deal. So they’ve got.  jill  I want a back end deal please.  Dion  With who? With Nicholas Holt or with?  jill  No. Yeah, with my new boyfriend.  Dion  Torn to it.  Quinny  I love it. You, you ladies, you can. You can divide them up, Pete. You can have Nicholas Holt. Jill, you can have David Corus wet. I’ll take crypto, apparently.  jill  No.  Quinny  And I will pat him, I will pat him and love him and call him George.  Speaker 9  Yes.  Dion  Great. So it just leaves me with the Lois and I haven’t even watched the fabulous Mrs. Maisel.  Peta  Marvel, marvelous.  Speaker 5  See. Marvelous.  Peta  That did distract me because I didn’t realise she was lost because, as I said, I hadn’t looked into the movie at all and just the entire time my brain was like. But it’s the marvelous missus.  Quinny  That would be.  jill  Wow.  Peta  Not Louis.  Dion  Yes, yes.  Quinny  Yeah, you, you get #5 or as he’s better known, Gary.  Dion  Yeah. No, like 100% if I got to hang out with Alan Tudyk for the rest of my life, I would be down for that. I’d be like, yes, please give me.  Quinny  Mm-hmm.  Dion  Screen robot voice.  Quinny  Man, I did. I did love it. I looked up who the other.  Dion  He’s a very funny man.  Quinny  Voices of the robots.  Speaker 9  Ohh.  Quinny  Are. Yeah. So Superman robot number one is Michael Rooker.  Speaker 9  Oh, I was. Wondering why he was credited on who was he?  Quinny  Yep, and Superman robot #5IS. Pom clementia? Yeah. There’s, like, there are a bunch of little things in there, like, you know.  jill  Ah, nice. Just James Gunn’s friends.  Quinny  Yeah, James Gunn’s friends like Bradley Cooper gets to look in.  Speaker 9  So, so shocked to see.  jill  Bradley deal was so shocked that he didn’t. He convinced himself it wasn’t Bradley Cooper.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  I don’t think anyone.  Dion  Yeah, I thought it was to start with. I’m like ohh, that’s funny. And then later I’m like, no, that’s not him. No, it wasn’t him, right? It was someone else.  Quinny  One of my favorite stupid and and something OK, something that probably should be said if you love the 1978 movies like so Superman, Superman 2. Hmm. This has got a lot of love for those films, and that particular kind of style.  Dion  I I feel it’s got more in common with Superman 3 onwards.  Quinny  That two it has a bit of three and four in there as well. In fact, it’s got.  Dion  But I mean. Superman. Superman. A lot of Superman 4. Yeah, I mean, like I like Superman 1. I do not find that this is the same as Superman 1 because it had the stupidity of Superman 2 when he throws his *******. Symbol that wraps like. That’s the kind of somewhat stupid ideas that come out. You’re like, oh, bold choice, but I guess. I feel like that’s OK.  Quinny  Yeah. Like I I think this has got more in common with the the funny parts of Superman 1, like the the Lex Luthor and Otis and Miss Tessmacher, and then stuff like that. Yeah. You know, those kind of elements of Superman 1 and yeah, a lot of Superman four. I was actually really shocked at how much.  Dion  Yeah.  Quinny  Referencing there was to Superman 4, which is make no mistake, the worst of those Mens sure super men super anyway, but my favorite is there’s a character in there who’s Lex, who’s main thug character by the name of. Otis. So Otis, of course, being from the old films. But this new character is called Otis Berg, and that’s the name of the country that Otis wanted to have for himself in the. 78. I’m going to. Mr. Luthor, I’m going to have a place and. It’s gonna be called Eldersburg.  Dion  I mean, look, also I want to I want to put it because a few people in the chat haven’t watched it yet, which is fine. Yeah. It’s OK. There was a lot of dog in this. Like, I mean there’s there’s so much. There’s almost too much dog. I know.  Speaker 9  There’s a lot of dog, it’s got.  jill  The dog in it. Oh, come on.  Speaker 5  See look you.  Dion  Know look at this this whole thing. These were divisive.  jill  What are you, a cat person?  Dion  No, I.  Speaker 3  Yes.  Speaker 5  No, I’m a dog person, but I thought in this there was like there is a little bit too much dog.  Dion  In this and also the dog. Anyway, I can’t explain like the whole thing is I can’t say I I watched it and by the end I’m like it’s not really for me. I don’t. I don’t really, I’m not.  Speaker 5  Sure, I’m down.  Dion  For this, but I want to be is that does that? Does that make sense?  Quinny  You you went in?  Speaker 9  Of course, yeah.  Dion  I went in hoping that this would be kind of for me, you know, like ohh. Great. Maybe this will be a new Ave. to get into the DC cinematic world that they’re probably building and stuff like there’d be something to get and there’s like.  Speaker 5  Oh, I feel like this is absolutely not.  Dion  My kind of jam, but I hope it will.  Speaker  Me.  Dion  I I just wanted to see a movie about soup. Men. Not Superman. Conflicted ideologies of other stuff that people maybe are doing at him or or all this other stuff. And they’re very over complicated **** like, you know, ultimately at the heart, Lex Luthor is still the same. Thing that he was in the original. Gene Hackman dies.  Speaker 11  Yeah, I really think, yeah.  jill  I feel like Nicholas Holt was really channelling Gene Hackman, to be honest.  Quinny  Oh yeah, yeah, big.  Peta  You don’t feel more topical?  Quinny  Though ohh yeah. Yeah.  jill  I’m gonna say Superman has always been this topical.  Speaker 5  Oh yeah.  Peta  But in in terms of that particular character now feels particularly topical.  Speaker 3  Mm-hmm.  jill  I think, well, I think that they’ve just updated it to more modern things and I’m going to say stuff like social media and trolling and that kind of stuff. Because there’s, like a great gag throughout the the film about Superman not reading the comments.  Speaker 9  Because it’s just.  Speaker 3  Yeah.  jill  Just hateful. And then we find out later who is writing those comments. Which is quite humorous, but. It’s. Yeah, I think it’s always had that theme.  Peta  Yeah, I’m and I’m, I’m glad. I’m glad that. Ohh well, I was talking about Luther specifically as a specific character being a billionaire tech bro megalomaniac that.  Quinny  You’re you’re talking about Luther.  Peta  Actually, you know, literally trying to take over the world by helping to engage small countries.  Quinny  Yeah.  jill  I mean, I saw a really great headline that just said Superman is not work, it’s just we have real life super villains now. So that’s why it is so relatable. Yeah.  Peta  Yeah. But you’re right. I mean, all of these things have always had messages. So I was glad in this case that there was like strong messaging within the plot and within. Each of the characters. So even when I wasn’t quite catching up with the tone or like you said you, you kind of do get kind of thrown into the middle of the story and maybe that’s why I didn’t feel like I would catch up. There’s definitely not an origin story. But even when I, you know, was kind of like.  Speaker  Hmm.  Peta  I’m still not sure I’m feeling what this is. I was kind of appreciating that it was staying true to the genre in terms of its. In in in terms of its messaging and how topical it was being.  Quinny  Yeah. Look, I I’m a big fan of the fact that it it it didn’t stutter like when it’s saying hey, you know countries invading other countries as far and you know a fairly thinly. Veiled, like OK, completely thinly veiled thing saying, hey, this country that looks an awful lot like Israel this country. That looks an. Awful lot like Palestine. Yeah. This is a ****** situation. Wouldn’t it be nice if somebody could just, you know, go in and give the middle finger to? You know, literally the middle finger to an oppressive regime, you know, like. I can see where people are jumping around saying it’s woke. Absa, ******* lutely. It’s. It makes no bones about where it’s politics. Like, yeah.  Dion  The only problem is it’s like, that’s just, you know, the group of people who are complaining about this sort of stuff. I feel like, well, you’re the sort of people who, like, say that the Punisher is part of the police force. Like you just you’re not, actually.  Speaker 3  Hmm.  jill  Yeah, they don’t understand it like Superman has been woke since 1938, when he was created like, yeah.  Dion  Yeah, well, the 50s after the Japanese thing, but we won’t go there. Yeah.  Quinny  He was he was fighting the Klan in 1940.  Dion  True, true, you know. But there was a bit of problematic World War 2 stuff. So, but you know, hey. You can’t win them all, but yeah, look, it is a whole thing that. This is someone who’s trying to fight for the underdog, for the little guy to stand up to, to face down bullies and all that sort of stuff. And what happens when the bullies are the ones that are kind of running stuff. You know, then you can’t be surprised. I was like, ohh. Maybe we’re the bad guys like. Yes. That’s what we’re telling you. We’re actually telling you you’re doing **** things and stop it, because that’s not what we want to be.  Speaker 2  Yeah.  jill  That’s the part of this movie that, like, struck me the hardest was when, you know, bullies pile on when the heroes down like Superman has a moment where, you know the press and online is picking him apart and then that’s when you know, people decide to strike you when.  Speaker 3  Hmm.  jill  You’re at your week. Just and have made no secret about having endured bullying through high school, so it was a very resounding moment for me. I ******* hated it, but. Yeah, I think it’s still important to include stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, it was a hard watch.  Dion  So this is what I say. Like when, when, what, when I was watching it and like some of the stuff it when it hits it. It hits. Really, really well and that’s.  jill  Yeah. Very yeah. Poignant stuff.  Dion  Yeah. And then, you know, other times it’ll go from that though, to a scene of a, an entire building collapsing over a particular thing. Or, you know, the fictional idea that Metropolis can be evacuated in about 20 minutes.  Peta  Yeah. I mean, suspension of disbelief. Dion, come.  Speaker 11  What the ****? On.  Dion  Excuse me. What? I I’m a logistics based person and even I know you can’t evacuate patrol. I mean Gotham. Different story. We can get people out, no problem. It’s basically Islam.  Peta  Yeah.  Quinny  What I did enjoy about that that sequence, though, was the difference between. Something like that sequence and Man of Steel where you’ve got like a Superman.  Peta  Which is why I did not like Man of Steel. I was like, I know nothing about Superman, but this don’t feel right.  Quinny  Like just having a a running battle through the streets and smashing through.  Peta  Just shocking a guy through buildings like just the entire battle was him throwing that guy through buildings that had people in them.  Quinny  There’s no. Yeah, yeah. And then at the end of it killing. You know which like is is one of those things that is just like ohh. Whereas in this one.  jill  Yeah, that lost me when he killed Zod. That lost me. I’m like, this is not.  Quinny  Superman. Yeah. And. And OK. He couldn’t. He couldn’t do it any other way. Yeah, he can. He’s Superman. And I love this one for, like, all of those moments where he’s like somebody, you know, does something to the Kaiju and he’s like, come on, man. I was going to put that in a. Like a space prison thing or.  Speaker  Whatever.  Speaker 9  Yeah, and like Superman does have his his little space zoo, like with all his funny little creatures.  Quinny  Yeah. Yeah. Exactly like. But I think to to make him and the the the level of good these and that that altruism where he will save a squirrel where he will, you know try and get a dog out of the way to keep it from being you know hurt whatever to make him work. You kind of have to place him in this almost silly space.  Speaker 13  Please.  Quinny  Like you know, this is this is a Superman who goes and talks to his funny robots and can fly into the heart of a black black hole like this. This is very, very much Frank quietly, kind of All Star Superman, which is, you know, really kind of leaning in on the Silver Age, the. The really kind of over the top stuff. But to do that, that’s why you can have him be so good. But then they ground that I I personally thought it was a ******* incredible kind of balancing act where they allowed him to be, you know, cartoonishly lovely.  Dion  Yeah.  Quinny  But then would ground it with something like when the the mayor and Par Kent first showed up. I was like, holy ****, this is a bit much, isn’t it? Like, you know.  jill  They were really giving adventures of Superman, Marion. Park Kent to be on.  Quinny  Hmm, yeah. But then by the end of it, I was like ohh, I’m fully invested in these sweet, lovely people.  Dion  Yeah. What do you mean? They’re just regular folk?  jill  Yeah, exactly.  Dion  Who were just trying to be good and try to like to think they’re not like Kevin Costner’s saying. No, no, don’t sacrifice it like I wouldn’t. I was.  Peta  Ohh ****.  jill  That movie just reminding me how much I ******* hated Man of Steel.  Quinny  Yeah. No, no. I don’t save me. Don’t reveal your secret. Oh, and by the way, maybe you should have let some.  Dion  No.  Quinny  Kids, kids die.  Dion  Yeah. Yeah, because that’s that’s how you get a Superman that kills people. Rather than this one.  Speaker 11  Anyway.  Dion  It’s like you raised me to be good, and then I found out that I wasn’t supposed to be good. Ohh, but no, I I’m still gonna be good.  jill  Hang on. All right. Any final thoughts before we rate?  Dion  Uh, no.  Quinny  I think I just waxed a little too lyrical then so I I think I’ve said as much as. I need to.  Dion  Great. OK.  Quinny  Clip.  Dion  Yes. Clip then right, mainly because it’s very late. Well done. Good call, Jill, I could join me to start the the clip then. Right. You want to go clip then? Right. Which one? Which one do you want? The you get out of here or the dog? The dog. Do you want to see the dog?  Speaker 2  Yes.  Speaker 9  It’s good for you. Dog. Dog. Ohh.  Speaker 10  So.  Quinny  What is this? Crypto.  Speaker 2  What the hey, dude, I I thought you destroyed the whole Superman robots. I thought I told you to keep an eye on him.  Speaker 10  We feed the canine, but he is unruly and he realizes we are not flesh and blood and couldn’t in our heart of hearts care less whether he lives or. Dies.  Speaker  Don’t eat it.  Speaker 13  Out, out, stop out. Stop. Crypto out. Out. Stop it. Stop, sit, sit, stay.  Dion  Oh, there we go. Yes, the very bad dog who is a good dog but a bad dog. Unless before dog. Yes, trying. Is James going trying to make us all Crypto Bros? OK, ratings hit the ratings. Go on.  Speaker 13  Kneel before dog.  Quinny  Oh.  Speaker  Oh.  Quinny  Rohan, didn’t it?  jill  I wanted to like it more than I did. I really, really wanted to like it more. Than I did.  Speaker 9  Oh, ****. You’re going to be harsh. I’m going to give it.  jill  A 65.  Speaker  Cool.  Speaker 9  Chill. I still.  jill  Had enjoyable moments. But there’s just something about it that didn’t click for me. I don’t ******* know what it was. I mean, I touched on some of the the moments a lot of out of context stuff, just not enough fleshing out of some characters. Like maybe it was doing too much. I.  Speaker 12  Hmm.  Dion  This is so strange.  jill  Don’t know.  Dion  It’s so strange because I was heading towards 60. I’m gonna give it 60. I know, right? I was heading towards 60, which I thought was like rough, but I was like, ohh true. Yeah, that’s the thing like.  Speaker 11  But. I liked it. I had fun it.  Speaker 9  Was just just.  jill  Not enough that did it. For me, yeah, that’s right. Can.  Dion  I go not for me. Like, you know, like.  jill  Even those beautiful dimples.  Dion  I don’t remember. I don’t remember that character.  Quinny  Yeah, beautiful dimples.  Dion  I feel like it’s a song like if. If I were to separate everything out and perhaps put it in a different context, I would enjoy each of those bits more. But yeah, together I just. I was like, oh, it was entertaining. But did I have a good time? With it I’m like fine. You know. If they announce Superman 2 tomorrow, would I be rushing out to see? I’m like depends. It’s gonna be more the same same. Anyway, there I did 60. That’s fine.  Quinny  Pete, where you got with it?  Peta  I’m not gonna. I’m gonna be a little bit kinder to it because, like, I’m genuinely so used to not knowing what’s going on or who anyone is that none of that stuff actually bothered me, and partly because I I appreciate the the messaging that it was going for, and there were lots of bits that I did appreciate, but. I just structurally totally couldn’t quite get my hooks in. To it, but it’s not to say that I wouldn’t recommend it. I still think it’s an entertaining film, so I’m just gonna say 70.  jill  Yeah, I agree with Brent. In the chat. They said it feel like it needs a second viewing to appreciate. And I did kind of want to see it again before we did this show, but didn’t get time. I do wanna watch it again.  Quinny  Hmm.  Speaker 2  Yeah.  Quinny  Yeah, I I do really want to begin.  Peta  And also need to see it twice to make it good. Probably like isn’t like yeah positive rating.  Speaker 11  I think.  Speaker 9  Yeah, yeah, yeah.  jill  So for now, 65 still sticks, yeah.  Speaker  Yeah.  Quinny  Look, I was talking to other person who saw it and had had a conversation online and they gave it a rating, but the.  Speaker 12  Was it a?  Dion  Is that a monkey?  Quinny  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The monkey called Waterworth, but he made a really interesting point, which is the film itself. And the way the film is made. Has some goofy moments, and like there are bits that don’t work, and it’s kind of clunky, and there are sequences that feel rushed and there are characters that feel underused and everything. So the film itself, I said, he said I’d break that about a 60. 5. But. The feeling that I got from it. Was much higher, you know, and there are moments that it hit its stride where you see, like, you know, the the there’s a moment where the the building comes crashing down and it’s just dust. And. You see the the silhouette of Superman rising above it, and I was like, oh **** me. That’s a beautiful shot. You know, and there were moments where he was talking to Luthor, where I was like, God, that’s a ******* rip. A piece of writing. And, you know, there were all these moments throughout that that made me feel a lot. Different about the film and. That’s the thing. Like I remember watching it going. People are gonna be really torn over this one. Turns out they weren’t. It’s made of ****** out of money. But. I think I was also looking at myself going I’m torn on this film like I can see that there are lots of bits that don’t work particularly well, but I’m having a ******* great time. And when it does it, it does it beautifully. So for me, somewhere around that 80 mark.  Speaker 11  Quinny  Like I’ve I’ve really enjoyed it. I think the. Like. It’s not hitting the ******* heights of of Logan, you know, it’s.  jill  Yeah. Didn’t blow my ****.  Speaker 12  Off Peter, how how are your tints? Are they still? Sorry.  Quinny  I am.  Peta  That’s the new rating system.  Dion  2020 I can mine are here still.  Quinny  So mine is still.  Speaker 12  My might.  Quinny  Might have gone.  jill  From now on I’m just writing 1-2 or zero like. That’s how many tips are left.  Dion  No.  Quinny  How they treat you? I like that we’ve been doing this for this many years and. We’ve only now come. To a rating.  Speaker 13  System the perfect all.  Dion  Agree on a perfect natural rating system.  jill  Renaming to the periodic tides of awesome.  Quinny  Wow.  Dion  You heard it here first. In this ultra wide for truth, justice, and. The tight way. How do we get here? Sorry, Kenny, you were talking very earnestly about lucky Superman and now.  Speaker  We’re talking about.  Quinny  No, I’m. I’m all down for.  Speaker 11  I said bring us back to reality.  Quinny  I I think I think I’ve said quite a lot. I talked about this on ABC Radio. I’ve I’ve, yeah, I’ve kind of kind of said my piece on this whole thing.  Dion  You did.  Speaker 5  Like Will, will.  Dion  I watch this Superman in another film or a a successive sequel. Yeah, I will. Like, I’ll come back and give it another go, but I really hope I get to see more. Uh. About like I, I would enjoy watching this Superman interact with other people, but I really just want to see a movie about Superman.  jill  I wanna see this Superman with a with with our touch, Batman.  Quinny  Our pet.  Dion  Our parts.  Quinny  That would be the most astonishing tonal whiplash.  jill  Yeah. It’s gonna be like gloomy boy and sunshine boyfriend. It’s gonna.  Dion  Well, we already know that Lobos Green Litton going ahead. So yeah, this Superman and.  jill  Be so great. Ohh God, just imagining a hot mess from Lobo.  Quinny  I mean. Yeah, but I’m also. There’s a part of me that kind of feels like that’s what Lobo needs to be. But also, I’m not sure he’s, like, getting his own film. I know he’s in Supergirl, but you know.  Dion  Well, who knows, I mean. Wait, we’re in spoiler section yet.  Quinny  I was gonna say should we move into spoiler section just briefly.  Dion  So that does mean changing the bulb. Yes, yes. It’s up now, OK. Right. So. How do we feel about that? And?  Quinny  So.  jill  Yeah, escape the chat if you don’t want spoilers.  Speaker  Quinny  True. Yeah. Yeah. Now, now is your time to exit and.  Dion  We don’t. We’re getting anything. This is what happens with all these films nowadays. It’s like well. You’ve just enjoyed that movie. I know we’re gonna do a.  Speaker 5  Little bit of taste or maybe something?  Quinny  Else you know, I like the fact that they chose not to to follow the forgotten the the way of Marvel doing it. Of yeah, doing it as a post credit sequence or anything, it was like. No, no, we’re gonna put it in the act. So.  Dion  Yeah, fair enough.  Quinny  Yep, thought that was nice. So yes, to anyone who hasn’t ******** off yet. Yeah. What did we think of Australia’s own Milly Alcock as the Super Party girl?  Speaker 9  Yeah, I was surprised to.  jill  See Supergirl appear in the movie I. One thing that escaped me before watching this, but.  Dion  It’s a. It’s a. It’s a bold.  jill  I kind of liked it.  Dion  Choice to introduce that character in that particular way.  Speaker 11  Yeah, I kind of liked.  jill  A A party girl? Supergirl.  Dion  Only cause she was going to a planet with a red sun.  Quinny  So she could get.  Speaker 11  You ****** **.  Speaker 5  But how did she get off the planet?  Quinny  The red well.  jill  Spaceship.  Speaker 13  Yeah.  Quinny  Just cause she she she’s red sun so she can get drunk. But I’m guessing that.  Dion  Too too many Buckleys aren’t there.  Quinny  Maybe she could still fly. Yeah, so interesting idea that I’ve they’ve said that a lot of the Supergirl film is gonna be vaguely based on the Supergirl woman of tomorrow. I think it’s called OK, which is an interesting idea that Supergirl. Unlike Superman, who came as a baby.  Speaker 3  MHM.  Quinny  And therefore, you know it has been raised by lovely parents and stuff like that. Supergirl is dealing with some pretty ******* serious promo.  jill  Yeah.  Quinny  She, you know, saw her family and planet. Die has seen everybody that she knows and loves die. And you know, then spent. God only knows how long in a, you know, intergalactic tube.  Speaker 2  MHM.  Quinny  And yeah, is having not a great time of it and suddenly doesn’t really know how to cope with, you know, superpowers and **** like that. Meanwhile, you got Clarke, who has been growing up with this, so it has a much better grounded understanding of it. I like that idea.  jill  Yeah, I would watch it. Yep.  Dion  And see, that’s a really interesting thing because you got that whole Superman movie with all those other characters and the different things that went on, and yet you’ve built the little world around that. See, This is why I kind of went like ohh Superman. I’m not sure about that movie. Why couldn’t have just been about Superman? Doesn’t he have his own trauma? Wasn’t all of his own traumas enough? You know, having to deal with? He didn’t need everyone else’s. Stuff. Yeah. Does that make sense?  Quinny  I think so, yeah.  Dion  Try not to discredit it.  Quinny  OK, so one of the big things that. Jimmy’z sexual prowess is what saves the day.  jill  Yeah.  Dion  No, but also.  Peta  But also Jimmy’z willingness to, like, use a woman.  Dion  I know, I know. Right. Like, you know, jimmy’z terrible ****, boy. Attitude saves the day.  Peta  Information.  Dion  Conflicting maybe?  jill  I think you’re missing the real hero of the story, and that’s Eve, Tess Markham.  Quinny  1000 percent 1000.  jill  Sure, she’s the one that took all of those photos with all of the crucial information. Mm-hmm.  Dion  Are you saying that selfies and influences do serve a purpose in life?  jill  Yeah, I wanna see the movie with Eve Tessmacher and Madison from Marvel.  Speaker 12  ohh  Dion  Talk about crisis on infinite Earths.  Quinny  I I do love that Miss Tessmacher is actually the person who has saved. Men, both films, she’s also the one that saves him in the 1970.  Dion  Well, yeah. There’s a nice little.  Quinny  8 film.  Dion 

EPISODE 80 of Five At The Door features an engaging conversation with T.J. and Steve from Ghost Town Remedy, two Nashville-based musicians who are making waves in their community. Join us as they share their journey, from their roots in folk music to the evolution of their unique sound and the exciting projects on the horizon.In this episode, T.J. and Steve discuss the challenges and joys of running their DIY festival, Jorts Festival, and the intricate balance of being artists while managing the demands of life and creative endeavors. They dive into the realities of the music industry, including the pressures of promoting their work in a digital age dominated by social media and streaming platforms. Listeners will gain insights into the complexities of booking shows, touring, and the importance of community within the Nashville music scene.The conversation also touches on their upcoming album, which promises to explore deeper themes and showcase a more dynamic sound, as they prepare to release their new single, "Doom Scroll." This track encapsulates the chaos of modern life and the struggle to stay connected in an overwhelming digital landscape. Get ready for a candid discussion about the highs and lows of being a musician today, and the passion that drives them to keep creating.Don't miss this episode as we delve into the vibrant world of Ghost Town Remedy, where creativity and community collide to create something truly special.Show notes penned by your favorite chronicler of the musical journey at Five At The Door.(00:00) Bird flu is working on a new album and touring this month(03:40) Doing this on the side is kind of a nightmare(10:08) Mhm. It's totally worth it. Like that 30 minutes on stage is worth the 12 to 24 hours(11:33) The band is planning a four-date tour with dad Hats(13:08) Over Wild started playing music in, what, 2012? Yeah, 2011(15:49) Why did you want to make the drum jump down to Nashville(19:03) How did you form Dry Spell? Did you do full band or something(21:47) This was your first tour and you had no idea what you were doing(25:34) You have been doing Ghost Town for close to a decade(28:36) What would you say is Nashville missing the most or that it does wrong(33:22) Going to the End is always a blast. Like it's really crazy to kind of watch the space(33:55) There's just so many cool places in Nashville to play. I think Nashville wise, especially, I think touring(37:44) East side bowl has technically three venues. There is the one by the bar(39:23) You have a new song called Doom Scroll coming out next week(43:09) Black: I think that's where brain damage comes from with ad overload(46:42) Have you guys seen the new season of Black Mirror? No, I haven't(47:16) Everyone needs to go see this movie, everyone, I highly recommend it(48:36) Black Mary's new album Itself is expected to come out next spring(51:51) Are you doing, uh. You're y' all are doing this by yourselves through your own record label(57:25) You have to wait longer to start releasing your singles because Spotify has rules(01:02:36) I still love when King Gizzard throws just another record of a year

In this powerful episode of Our Womanity, we sit down with Maisha Sullivan Ongoza, the visionary behind P.A.S.H.I. — the Pan-African Sisterhood Health Initiative. Maisha shares how this community-rooted organisation is tackling period poverty, reducing stigma around menstruation, and centering ancestral wisdom through eco-friendly, reusable menstrual products. From intergenerational teachings led by elders to engaging boys and men in the conversation, Maisha walks us through how P.A.S.H.I. is changing lives across the globe.What We Cover: The origin and mission behind P.A.S.H.I Why menstrual hygiene management (MHM) is a public health and dignity issue The power of reusable pads and eco-conscious period solutions The importance of involving elders as hands-on teachers How P.A.S.H.I. is shifting cultural norms by including men and boys Stories of impact from Philadelphia to Africa and the Caribbean How you can support or replicate this model in your own communityAbout P.A.S.H.I:P.A.S.H.I. empowers girls, women, and others by providing free, eco-friendly, reusable menstrual pads and education on life skills, reproductive health, and MHM. With over 47 global shipments and annual youth workshops in Philadelphia, P.A.S.H.I is restoring dignity and access one pad at a time.Impact Snapshot: 47+ pad shipments to Africa & the Caribbean since 2019Thousands of free menstrual and hygiene kits distributed Annual youth workshops teaching reusable pad creation Hands-on guidance from elders in the communityKey Quote from Maisha: "We're not just handing out products—we're rebuilding a sense of worth, reclaiming ancestral knowledge, and reminding our young people they are worthy of care, dignity, and tradition."Resources & Links:Website: www.pashiglobal.orgEmail: pashi.global@gmail.comPhone: (215) 385-0214Subscribe to Our Womanity wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review to help amplify women-led grassroots change around the world!

Bex Scott welcomes guest Lulu from Lulu J Vintage, a vintage costume jewelry collector and seller, to the show to teach her all about the joys of vintage costume jewelry. Lulu started collecting when she was sixteen years old and worked at the Carol Tanenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection through high school and university. She learned from amazing mentors about the history of jewelry and developed her own collection before starting to sell on Instagram last year. Bex finds out what jewelry Lulu loves best, her philosophy on collecting, and tips for testing authenticity. Lulu describes herself as a “very passionate collector” and her love of vintage costume jewelry shines through in her conversation with Bex. She describes some of her favorite vintage pieces and why she prefers certain styles over others. Though she says she's not a fashion historian, Lulu teaches Bex quite a lot about the history of costume jewelry and styles through the years. Bex learns about the current brooch resurgence, French designer Léa Stein, how to locate the lost mate of her solo Sherman earring, and how to test for true Bakelite. Lulu stresses that collecting should be about what someone loves, and what they're passionate about, not simply focused on what will sell or what's valuable. Join Bex and Lulu for a deep dive into vintage costume jewelry.Resources discussed in this episode:“Vintage Jewellery: Collecting and Wearing Designer Classics” by Caroline CoxKenneth J Lane vintageAvon rose broochCaroline Tanenbaum Vintage CollectionLéa Stein“Sherman Jewelry History” on VintageJewelryGirl.com“6 Ways to Identify Bakelite” by Pamela Wiggins on TheSpruceCrafts.comJoyce's ClosetBEX VintageMr. Mansfield Vintage—Contact Lulu | Lulu J VintageInstagram: @lulujvintageContact Rebecca Scott | Pyrex With Bex: Website: PyrexWithBex.comInstagram: @pyrexwithbex—TranscriptBex Scott: [00:00:02] Hey everybody, it's Bex Scott and welcome to the Pyrex with Bex podcast where you guessed it, I talk about vintage Pyrex, but also all things vintage housewares. I'll take you on my latest thrifting adventures, talk about reselling, chat with other enthusiasts about their collections, and learn about a bunch of really awesome items from the past. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you love listening to podcasts so you don't miss a beat. Hey everybody, this is Bex Scott and you are listening to the Pyrex with Bex podcast. And today I am very excited to introduce to you Lulu of Lulu J vintage on Instagram. Welcome, Lulu. Lulu: [00:00:43] Thanks so much for having me Bex. Bex Scott: [00:00:44] Thanks for being here. So I found you through Instagram and I instantly fell in love with all of your education on vintage costume jewelry and your amazing reels. And every time you post, I want to buy all of the jewelry that you show. So I wanted to make sure I could get you on the podcast to educate my listeners on all of the amazing jewelry. I love jewelry, I have a massive collection of just random things from over the years. I don't wear a lot of it, but I have this thing where I need to buy it and just keep it in a jewelry box and then look at it. So I'm excited to learn from you today as well. Lulu: [00:01:27] I think that's how all collecting starts. You start with coins or jewelry or just things that you love, and it starts to turn in, even your beautiful books behind you and your collection. Bex Scott: [00:01:40] Yeah, it's funny how you don't realize that you're starting a collection. And then you look at everything around you, and you have about 40 more collections than you thought you did. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into the world of vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:01:59] Absolutely. And so I am a very passionate collector of vintage costume jewelry. I've been collecting since I was 16 years old. I worked at the Carol Tannenbaum Vintage Jewelry Collection throughout high school and university, and that was the place I just fell in love with it. I was immersed in jewelry. I learned so much from amazing mentors and learned a lot about the history, and slowly just started to build my collection over time. I began selling just on Instagram last year as really a creative outlet from my full-time job and a way to get back into this industry and to meet like-minded people. Bex Scott: [00:02:46] That's awesome. What is it about vintage costume jewelry that fascinates you the most? Lulu: [00:02:51] That's a great question. I mean, I think I've always been a jewelry girl. I loved playing dress up as a kid. Go through my nana's jewelry box? Yeah, just, I've always loved fashion. There was a period through, I guess, my teens where I thought I wanted to be a fashion designer or a jewelry designer, and working at Carol's Collection, it was really that place that started my interest in costume jewelry and becoming really fascinated with it. And it was just, it's more accessible than collecting, I'd say clothing because you can keep it in a jewelry box. You don't need to have a big closet. And yeah, that's where it started. Bex Scott: [00:03:31] And you can have multiple jewelry boxes and still hide them away. You can't have multiple closets as easily. Lulu: [00:03:39] No. It's true. We live in a small apartment, and my personal collection jewelry box keeps growing because it's one of those ones that stacks on top of each other. And then the pieces to sell, I have an Ikea unit and we keep it in our little more like a storage room den. And I think my fiance is very happy that it's just jewelry and not racks of clothes. Bex Scott: [00:04:09] I love that. I can relate to you mentioning going through your grandma's jewelry, because that's what I used to do with my granny when I was little. We'd go to her house and the first thing I do is run up to her bedroom and start undoing all of her clothes and her jewelry and going through her drawers. So, I don't do that anymore, because that would be strange. But that kind of started me with my tiny jewelry collection. Most of what I have is from her, passed down, and she always says she has a few more pieces that she needs to give me as well. So it's nice. Mhm. And have you come across any interesting or surprising stories behind some of the pieces that you have? Lulu: [00:04:55] Yeah, absolutely. I think in my personal collection, a lot of the pieces I have are of sentimental value or just pieces that I absolutely love. And I just would not want to sell. But I actually recently found a piece that I just sold that looked very 50s in the style, and the woman I bought it from thought it was from the 50s. And then when I went to do a bit more research about it, it turned out to be a 90s German bracelet, and it was marked Germany on the spring clasp. And that you only find that marking if it's pre-war or post, like the fall of the Berlin Wall. So it's really interesting that this piece looked very 50s, and it actually turned out to be newer from my vintage perspective, but kind of just shows that all like fashion is very cyclical. Even with vintage jewelry, you can, designers will look into the past. And yeah, I thought that was really cool. Bex Scott: [00:05:51] That is really cool. When you're researching the jewelry, do you often find things that are really surprising or is like from your experience, do you kind of understand most of what you've found now before you do the research? Lulu: [00:06:04] That's a great question. I think I have a good base knowledge of that history, having worked at Carol's Collection for a very long time. But you're always learning as you find new pieces or like, as I just said, I thought that piece was 50s. It turned out to be a 90s piece. I'm not a fashion historian. I went to school for graphic design not fashion design in the end. So I'm no expert, but you have to always keep learning and it's nice to like, get books. And when I find a piece that I don't know, I like so many Facebook groups that you can join to learn more or help identify pieces. So yeah, always, always you constantly learn as you go. Bex Scott: [00:06:47] Nice. I went to school for graphic design as well, so that's very cool to meet another graphic designer, and I think that partially put me into collecting as well, because it's so creative and like all the colors and the research, it's kind of goes hand in hand with that creative side of your brain. Lulu: [00:07:06] Absolutely. And I even say, like making content for social media, even though it's more screen time than my day job, it's still very creative. It's like a different type of creative muscle that you're flexing and with collecting too, it's yeah, just as you said, like finding different colors or pieces that are really unique. Yeah I love it as a creative outlet. Bex Scott: [00:07:30] Mhm. So what role do you think vintage costume jewelry has played in fashion history. Lulu: [00:07:37] Yeah great question. As I said I'm not a fashion historian. So I'm going to speak more generally on this. But I do think it's played a role especially for couture designers as a way to reach different audiences. I think like Chanel had clothing, but they also had jewelry, and so that became a little bit more accessible. There's a designer, Kenneth Jay Lane, who had a couture costume collection of jewelry. But then it was like, I want to make sure that my audience is more broad and actually sold on Avon. So it's like it made it more, I think, accessible in that sense. Bex Scott: [00:08:22] Neat. I think I've heard that name before. I wouldn't know any of the pieces, but... Lulu: [00:08:28] So his pieces are in the 60s, and some of his couture pieces are these, like beautiful, like chandelier earrings, really colorful with, like, it's called, like diamante, fake diamonds all around it. And then if you ever see says KJL or Kenneth Lane, those are... Bex Scott: [00:08:47] Okay. Lulu: [00:08:47] And then his, his stuff for like, Avon is very different than that. But it's neat need to see the range of work how it, and over different time as well. Bex Scott: [00:08:59] Mhm. Mm. You brought up Avon and I'm kind of curious how do you feel about Avon Jewelry and some of the vintage. I find so much of it. Lulu: [00:09:10] That's a great question. And I actually just bought a lot of jewelry from a collector who, like, only shopped on the shopping channel, and it was all Avon and like KJL, Joan Rivers, like really fun 80s 90s like Gold Tone. And I like it. I think it really, I only buy what I like. So it to me, it doesn't matter if it's a piece really old like from, you know, like 20s or 30s to a 90s piece from Avon. Like, if you like the style and it speaks to you, I say you should buy it. Bex Scott: [00:09:47] Exactly. I keep finding that Avon Rose. You probably know which one it is. It's the gold stem with the little red top. The brooch. Every time I buy jewelry in, like, a big lot, there's about four of them in there. So I think I have a mini collection of just the Avon Rose. Do you see a resurgence in the popularity of vintage costume jewelry, and how can people kind of incorporate it into their modern wardrobes? Lulu: [00:10:15] I definitely think there is a resurgence, especially like the past year and a half of like, the year of the brooch and everyone wearing brooches. And I mean, you see that even with fine jewelry like that trend. But costume is a way that's more accessible. So you're not spending thousands of dollars on a brooch. You can spend it at a more accessible price point. And it's nice to see, like my clients range in age. So I do think it's popular just with different people and it's coming back. Bex Scott: [00:10:45] Mhm. I love it, I like that the younger generation is starting to wear more jewelry and finding fun ways to wear brooches, whether it's their grandmothers or passed down from family, or if they're just collecting it themselves. I think it's really, really fun and refreshing. Totally. Are there certain designers or brands that shaped the industry and are especially collectible today? Lulu: [00:11:11] I think that really depends on where you're from and what type of jewelry you like to collect. I collect primarily North American and few European designers, but as I said, like really, if I see something I love, it can be from anywhere, it just has to speak to me. There's many costume designers and I actually would recommend this book, it's called Vintage Jewelry Collecting and Wearing Vintage Classics by Caroline Cox. It's a nice overview of fashion history, but specifically from a jewelry perspective. And it showcases different designers throughout different decades. It's been a great resource. There's a lot of other great books out there too, but I just like that it shows that different designers. Bex Scott: [00:11:59] I think that sounds great. Lulu: [00:12:00] For myself, I really love her name is Léa, Léa Stein, and she was a French designer who made buttons, brooches and bangles all out of compressed layers of plastic. So it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:12:16] That sounds cool. Lulu: [00:12:17] And like they created a lot of unique designs and patterns. And they're really fun brooches. They're just like, I have one umbrella. I have like a little girl. Some flowers are so fun. And I love, like, plastic jewelry. So it's definitely like she's one of the like the renowned plastic artists. And from a Canadian perspective, Sherman Jewelry is definitely the most collectible. He really used amazing like high quality rhinestones, particularly those aurora borealis stones, and it's really sought after. There's a huge community out there of Sherman collectors. Bex Scott: [00:12:56] I think that's one of the Facebook groups that I'm a part of, and it's always fascinating to see how many different Sherman pieces there were and how some were signed and some weren't. So it's hard to tell if you have one or you don't, and... Lulu: [00:13:11] Totally. And it's neat to see too, that like, there's so many different variations of his jewelry, but then there are some styles that I keep seeing, like, I actually just bought a brooch, it's one of the pinwheel brooches. And I feel like now every time I'm on that Facebook group, that style always pops up. And it's like nice to see. I love when I find other collectors who have similar pieces to you because it's so rare because there's the quantity of the jewelry is a lot smaller back then. So, it's really unique. Bex Scott: [00:13:48] That's fun. I have a couple, I have two sets of Sherman earrings, and then I have a bundle that I bought at an auction, and it came with only one lone Sherman earring. And it's the prettiest earring I've ever seen. And it's just gonna sit there alone forever. Lulu: [00:14:06] You could take it to a jeweler and, like, put it on a necklace or something. You want to do-- Bex Scott: [00:14:11] -- That's a good idea-- Lulu: [00:14:12] -- something with it? Bex Scott: [00:14:13] Yeah. I was thinking they should have kind of like a dating app, but for lost jewelry, where you swipe to find the missing pair of your earring. Lulu: [00:14:24] I will find it for you. I actually think I follow one Instagram that's like to find people's pairs. Like she just has single earrings. She might be based in the US, but I'll follow up with them for you. Bex Scott: [00:14:37] That's amazing. I love that. Yeah. So what would you say are some of the key differences between costume jewelry from different decades. You know, there's so much of it. But even 1920s versus 1960s or now, what would you say are some of the key differences? Lulu: [00:14:55] Yeah, that's a great question. I think the big differences are the materials that are used and as well as like how it mirrored fashion trends at the time. So as I said, I love 60s plastic. And there's so much plastic jewelry that's very like mod and colorful and like really reflective of that style. And so it really just depends on the decade and that example that I said like something that looked 50s but actually was 90s. You just need to do a bit more research on. Bex Scott: [00:15:31] Yeah. What would you say about quality. Do you think it's gotten better? Has it gotten worse? Is it kind of the same? Lulu: [00:15:39] Yeah, that's a great question. I don't collect as much contemporary costume and I've just been a vintage collector for so long. But I will say it's amazing the quality of vintage jewelry, that there are pieces that can last hundreds of years. Yeah, I have a necklace that was one of the first pieces of costume jewelry that I ever got. And this is like beautiful, Czech glass necklace. It's cherry red. I wear it all the time. It's so fun. And it's like 100 years old now. It's from the 20s and yeah, it's still in amazing shape. So the fact that it really stands the test of time is quite amazing. No obviously on everything, but a lot of pieces and especially those designer pieces, if you are following and collecting specific people. Bex Scott: [00:16:33] It's kind of fun to think we collect vintage jewelry now, what is it going to be like 100 years from now? Will the jewelry that we're making now still be around, or will it be all broken and degraded? Lulu: [00:16:47] Totally. I mean, there's so much I've seen online, even from a fashion perspective of, like going to thrift stores and a lot of it being fast fashion clothing. And it's not the quality that it was in the past. And so really high quality vintage pieces are harder to come by. Bex Scott: [00:17:09] Have to hold on to them when you find them. Lulu: [00:17:11] Definitely. Bex Scott: [00:17:13] Are there specific gemstones or materials commonly used in vintage jewelry that we don't see as often today? Lulu: [00:17:20] Yes. So this is a great question. And I immediately thought of Bakelite. I don't... Bex Scott: [00:17:26] Yeah. Lulu: [00:17:27] It's one of my favorite things to collect, as I've said many times, I'm a huge plastic collector. So Bakelite, 60s plastic, all of it I just love. And you really don't see Bakelite anymore because it's a type of plastic that had formaldehyde in it. And that wasn't, pretty much stopped using that after the 40s. And so it's very rare, hard to come by and really collectible. Bex Scott: [00:17:55] I think I have a Bakelite bracelet and, let me know if this is true, but somebody said that you can warm it up and it has a smell, and that's how you know, if it's Bakelite. Lulu: [00:18:05] So you have to like, you warm it up either, and like, I usually just like use my thumb on the Bakelite and just rub it a little and then it will smell like formaldehyde and, you know, it's Bakelite. So it's also like the, I don't know how to describe it other than the, like, softness of the plastic. It's a lot softer than other types of plastic. So it has a different feel as well. Bex Scott: [00:18:34] I'm going to go and smell all my bracelets now. So what advice do you have for someone who wants to start collecting vintage costume jewelry? Lulu: [00:18:49] Yeah. I think they should just collect what they love. Everyone should do their research and learn about the history if they want to collect specific designers. But I think by collecting what you love, you just, you're more passionate about it and you enjoy the pieces more. And it's not about, it's not always about a resale value. It's about how you enjoy the pieces as well. Bex Scott: [00:19:14] I like that, that's, I feel like can be applied to so many different things where especially with things like Pyrex, you collect what you like and there's people on groups who post and say is this a good price for it or should I get it? Should I leave it? And I always like the responses that are, well, if you like it, then nothing, nobody else's opinion should really matter. Just collect it because you want it in your home and you want to use it. And that's all that really matters. Lulu: [00:19:41] Exactly. And like Pyrex especially, it's something that you'll use often like we have like the butterfly set that was my fiance's grandparents and I just love them. Bex Scott: [00:19:57] That's so special. Lulu: [00:19:57] I, we use them every day. And so it's like a reminder of something of them, but also just that it's nice to have in your house. Bex Scott: [00:20:07] Yeah, I love that. And for people who have vintage costume jewelry, is there a good way to store the pieces to keep them in good condition? Lulu: [00:20:16] So I would suggest laying them flat when you can. I learned the very hard way not to keep a necklace on one of those, like necklace trees for a long time. It was this beautiful, like, beaded hand strung necklace. I went to put it on and it just completely broke. Bex Scott: [00:20:35] Oh, no. I never even thought of that. Maybe, does it make it weak? From sitting on the tree? Lulu: [00:20:42] The weight of it, of the beads. And because they were glass beads and like the thread over time, like it could wear. And so lay flat, not don't bend things harder if you have limited space, but just treat it as any other jewelry if you want it to last. You want to take good care of it. Bex Scott: [00:21:03] Yeah. What's the best way to clean the jewelry? Lulu: [00:21:06] That's a good question. I find for like, anything with like, sterling or like gold tone, you can get these like, polishing cloths. So I find that better than, like a sterling and... Bex Scott: [00:21:22] Like an actual paste or a cleaner or something. Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:25] I personally find it a lot better. It's hard with dust, so like you could use those cloths as well just to dust things, dust things off. But if you lay things flat and like in jewelry boxes, that's the best way to store and keep things clean because they're not out in areas collecting a lot of dust. Bex Scott: [00:21:45] That sounds good. I need to do some rearranging and shifting of how I have things stored now. Lulu: [00:21:52] It's okay. I mean, I do have a few things that are on top of each other, but. Bex Scott: [00:21:57] Yeah. Lulu: [00:21:57] It's best if you can. So you can give the piece some space. Bex Scott: [00:22:02] That sounds great. And where can people find you online to give you a follow? And where can they shop for your jewelry? Lulu: [00:22:09] Absolutely. So online I'm just on Instagram. It's at Lulu J vintage. You'll see my content as well as you can always send me a message if there's anything particular that you're looking for, because I only post a few of the pieces that I have either online or in store. And if you're in Calgary, I am at two local shops, so I'm at Joyce's Closet Boutique, which is in Kensington, and I'm at BEX Vintage and Mr. Mansfield's Vintage in the Beltline. They're really awesome mid-century furniture shop. Bex Scott: [00:22:46] Very cool. I've been meaning to go to all of those places. And just so everybody knows, the BEX Vintage has nothing to do with me. We are two separate people. Just in case. Just the same name. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Lulu for being on the podcast. I learned a ton today, and I can't wait to go and organize my jewelry and keep collecting. Lulu: [00:23:10] Thank you so much Bex, this is really great and nice to chat jewelry with you. Bex Scott: [00:23:16] Yeah. Everybody go and give Lulu a follow on Instagram. 

UNiTE Food is a Yorba Linda, California-based company that produces globally inspired protein bars. The brand offers unique flavors such as Churro, Mexican Hot Chocolate, and PB & Jelly, aiming to bring diversity to the wellness industry. Each bar provides around 10 grams of protein and is gluten-free, catering to health-conscious consumers seeking both nutrition and nostalgic tastes. Clara often relied on protein bars during her busy career but found the available flavors uninspiring. Drawing from her diverse culinary background, she recognized a gap in the market for culturally diverse flavors. Clara's father is an entrepreneur. Her family immigrated from Sudan when she was five years old. When they arrived in the United States, her father started a plumbing supply distribution business, which is the business Clara worked in earlier in her career. The idea for UNiTE was something Clara started thinking about in 2018 or 2019 while she was still working in her family's plumbing business. She began experimenting with different recipes and products in her kitchen in the early days of the pandemic in 2020.Clara often visits ethnic markets to learn about new flavors for new products. She also studied flavors and what people were eating when she traveled abroad.  QUOTES “If I'm anything, I'm a very curious person. I'm curious about how the world works and I'm curious about why segments of the population aren't being served.” (Clara) “If you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. If you create value, why would somebody leave you?” (Clara)“For me, it was about making sure we were taking care of our customers. That was the winning strategy. It sounds really simple, but it's way harder to execute.” (Clara)“Business is a framework. Once you understand product liability, you understand how to insure against it. You learn about the certifying bodies in your industry. It's hard and it's not (hard).” (Clara)“It's really about building relationships. Mutually beneficial relationships.” (Clara) “When you're over 40 and you created a new business, you're usually not doing it for money, you're doing it to try to make the world a better place.” (Clara)“I wanted to find common ground. Let's find flavors that will resonate with lots of people.” (Clara)“The essence of the UNiTE brand is to seek to understand and seek to find common ground instead of focusing on how we're different.” (Clara)“At the end of the day, consumers want authenticity and they want brands that create products that are meaningful to them. (Clara)“I don't really worry about copycat brands. I worry more when they stop copying me.” (Clara) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.49vigorbrandingAll right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone. Our guest today is Clara Paye. And I’ve known Clara for a long time. ah She is from Unite Foods. ah Unite’s line of nutritious bars are built around the concept of global flavors, but also comfort foods. Clara has started a brand that’s redefining what protein and nutrition bars can be, and I’m happy to have her as a guest. Clara, welcome. 00:25.55Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michael. Good to be here. 00:27.85vigorbrandingSo again, I know you, I think pretty well, and I’m excited to excited for this. This will be fun. So um I want to go back. I mean, you have a fascinating story. So before we get into Unite, I want to talk about you. How did you, you know, where where do you come from? Where do you, where did you work? You know, talk a little bit about what got you, got you here. 00:46.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, it’s definitely not been a linear path. It’s been really a path led by my own curiosity in the world. And so I think if I’m anything, I’m a very curious person. I’m curious how the world works. I’m curious why, you know, segments of the population aren’t being served. So my journey really started, you know, undergrad, I went to USC and I really went undeclared and thought I but wanted to be a lawyer and. 01:10.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEgot into one political science class and I was like, no, I definitely don’t want to do this. And so kind of was looking around like what else is out there, found the business school at USC, and more importantly, found the entrepreneurship program, which was number one in the nation at the time. And, you know, and I knew I didn’t want to study accounting or finance, and that’s what business was to me in my mind back then. And finding this entrepreneurship route really like kind of opened up the world to me and was like a light bulb. 01:34.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know My dad is an entrepreneur. and We immigrated from Africa and the Sudan when I was five years old. And in Africa, he had an automotive parts distribution business. And when he immigrated to the U.S., he started a plumbing manufacturing and hardware distribution business. And so, you know, having a dad that had kind of modeled entrepreneurship, it was demystified for me. And so I was like, oh, that’s really interesting. You know, I’ve been an entrepreneur kind of since I was a little girl, whether, you know, the classic lemonade stand or side popsicles or, you know, drawing pictures and trying to sell them to my aunts. Like, you know, I always had that entrepreneurial 02:07.53Clara Paye _ UNiTEstart and you know funny and but like at USC I remember them taking a poll of all the entrepreneurship kids and how many of them had like a lemonade stand or something similar as a kid and it was like 95% of the class raised their hand right like it’s something almost innate where you know that entrepreneurship bug grabs you was even a little kid and 02:15.32vigorbrandingMm 02:24.37Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, you know, going into the entrepreneurship program, it was kind of like and equated to like Ted Talks, where you just got to like hear and listen to these really successful entrepreneurs that had launched and they were normal people with good ideas that they just implemented. 02:36.22vigorbrandinghmm. 02:38.93Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I thought I would you know be an entrepreneur straight out of undergrad. I wrote a business plan um and for the apparel industry back then. this is I’ll date myself, but I graduated in 1999 and in 1998, 99. I wrote a business plan for plus size clothing for teenage girls. So I saw that there was this huge segment of the population where kids were kind of, you know, Americans were growing in size. and there weren’t really anything fashionable for young girls to wear if they were plus size. They had to shop, you know, especially in jeans, they had to start in the, you know, shop in the women’s Husky department, women’s department or the boy’s Husky department. And it really wasn’t anything fashionable. And I wrote this great business plan. All my professors told me to do it. And like the only person I knew that had any money was my dad. 03:21.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, being 21 years old and or, you know, barely 21 and asking him to fund, you know, I needed like $30,000 back then to launch this business. And my I was going to do it with my best friend whose father had just invested in the jeans manufacturing plant. 03:34.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEShe had done the entrepreneurship program the year before. It was like this home run idea. The internet was just coming online and we were going to do it all online. We didn’t need storefronts. You know, we’re kind of kind of revolutionize all of these things. 03:44.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd my dad’s like, what? Huh? Like watch yourself humming products. Yeah. 03:48.78vigorbrandingYeah. 03:50.42Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, this is a business that already exists. And he just didn’t see it, didn’t understand. But it’s it’s ironic that like that business would grow on to be like that segment specifically, um where I did all my research at this mall, like, went on to become a billion dollar business, like Torrid went into the same free mall with the same concept. And so that was kind of like always in the back of my mind, my entire career. So from age 20 to now, like, gosh, like, why I should have done that, like, I should have done something like that, you know, why didn’t I try and um I’m telling a really long part of the story so we can edit this, but it’s really like, you know, for me, it was really about that early experience in entrepreneurship that I held on to, but then I would go on. 04:22.93vigorbrandingOh, it’s great. 04:29.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEand work in cosmetics, worked for advertising agencies, you know, um and then eventually my dad lured me into the family business, which was like, you know, about five years after college, I wanted to get my MBA and he said, hey, I’ll make you a deal. You and your best friend want to come work for me, get your and MBAs and I’ll pay for them. And you just have to stay the time that you’re studying. And, you know, we did this executive MBA program where we worked our nine to five and then we went to school from like six to 10. 04:53.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd those are long days, but they were really fun because I got to take what I was learning in the MBA program and immediately apply it to my family business, which was, again, the plumbing and hardware distribution business. And so not that I was in love with plumbing and hardware, like, trust me, if I never see another supply line in my life, it’ll be too soon. But um it was really about this unique experience that I got to learn and apply, learn and apply. And it was just Really? um Really what set me up for like, you know in that curiosity to like really make an impact in my family business Where you know, sometimes when you join a family business you get told well, this is how we’ve always done it So this is why you have to do it this way and for me I got to kind of redefine everything Because of this MBA program that I was doing and my dad trusted, you know, he always had a high regard for education And so was like, okay. Well, yeah, let’s try it and really got you know got in and 05:45.11vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. i mean You bring up a really interesting point, though. Being a so a sibling of an entrepreneur, you you kind of do realize, or you maybe you don’t realize that it’s it’s not easy, but you you know it’s it’s doable, right? If you watch your father do it, like my father had a couple small sporting goods stores. So I thought, well, if you want to start a business, you just go out and start it. You just do it. and You know, my story is I’ve never been smart enough to know what I can’t do. So I’m like, Oh yeah, I can do that. And just, you know, and sometimes you pass, sometimes you fail, but you know, it’s like, Oh, I can try that. Oh yeah, I’ll do that. So, but, but I think our parents really do make it easier for us if they’ve done that, you know, and you sort of, I don’t want to say you take it for granted, but it’s sort of like, it seems doable. It seems attainable, you know, and next thing you know, you you’ve got something special. And I’ll say this, it had to be interesting, difficult, and maybe very educational for you. 06:34.52vigorbrandingah being a young woman in and the and the plumbing supply distribution business. I mean, what was that like? 06:40.78Clara Paye _ UNiTEah You know, it was it’s a very old industry. It’s you know very much like there’s very little product innovation. And so for me, being a curious person, I was always trying to learn. I always wanted to go to like plumbing school. So like I could like learn about the products a little bit more because they’re actually really complex. And if you ever go down a hardware store aisle and you go down the plumbing fittings or the plumbing section, I mean, there’s literally thousands and thousands of SKUs and so many different parts to like toilets and you know faucets and it’s it’s a very confusing um you know you have to have like a lot of deep knowledge in the industry to really make an impact so for me you know i knew i was never going to have that right what i could bring to the table was really an outside the box way of thinking about this industry like you know we created the company’s first website and started selling you know online and really trying to 07:28.80Clara Paye _ UNiTEUm, quantify customer experience, right? Like it wasn’t just about like place, you know, filling orders. It was like, what was the experience of that order for your customer? And so I’ve always been a customer centric leader. So I think it’s because I came up through marketing and entrepreneurship. You know, I really care about the customer and I really care about like the person that’s opening the box, whatever that box is, you know, and so. 07:51.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor me, it was all about aligning the business to be customer-focused, because my thesis was, if you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. 08:01.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEright It’s a win-win. 08:02.46vigorbrandingmean 08:03.15Clara Paye _ UNiTEIf you create value, why would somebody leave you? So it’s when you’re not creating value and you’re creating problems for the customer that you know you have that attrition. 08:13.25Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so for me, it was really about um making sure that we were taking care of our customers. And and that was the winning strategy. I mean, it sounds really simple, but it’s way harder to execute when you get to scale. 08:26.05vigorbrandingThat’s great. I mean, it makes total sense. So basically, you do all your own plumbing now, is that what you’re saying? 08:31.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEnot at all 08:32.01vigorbrandingYeah, I knew about it. Okay, so now let’s jump into something that I know you’re very proud of and should be. the that You founded Unite, okay? and And so let’s talk about that. You founded in March of 2020, right? 08:44.85vigorbrandingIn the middle of that thing called the pandemic with COVID. um but Obviously, that was a part of the story. That’s what sort of infused the story. Can you talk a little bit about that? 08:53.69Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. So, you know you know, I’d been ideating on it for like probably a year and a half before that and really trying, you know, it was working in the plumbing business at my, you know, and the family business that I was kind of like stuck behind my desk. And especially when I became a mom, like I was always just like looking for quick fuel to get me through my day. And that was like kind of when I had the epiphany for Unite and really our main point of differentiation is that we use global flavors. 09:15.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I had this unique experience, again, just just like the plus sized clothing where I was like, wait a minute, like there’s this whole population of people out there, like half the population are immigrants, people like me, or people that are just like really interested in other cultures and really interested in other foods. 09:31.28Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, I live in LA, like there’s, you can eat Thai, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, whatever you want, any time of day you want, you know, it’s all, you know, and that’s what makes America unique is that we are this melting pot of cultures. 09:38.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 09:42.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it very similarly, I saw this demographic shift where, you know, America was just going to continue to grow in, in multiculturalism. And so I was like, okay, if you’re in wellness and you are diagnosed with something like for me, it was a gluten intolerance. Like, and you go and try to find diet compliant food and you go to the shelf and like nothing resonates with you. Like that’s a huge miss. And so I think it was because 10:08.08vigorbrandingbut 10:08.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, i I’m not, everybody that has created protein bars up to that point wasn’t diverse, didn’t have the life experience I had. So I just kind of used my own life experience it to develop it. 10:18.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I developed them in my kitchen, like really, like, you know, as I got my cuisine on out and was like, what would I put in my protein bars? And for me, it was like almond butter and dates and, you know, let’s sweeten it with all natural things. 10:25.68vigorbrandingMm hmm. 10:28.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I i can’t use sugar, alcohols or Stevia. Like I i just, they’re not palatable to me. So I just use natural things. and literally googled what do nutritionists say should be in a protein bar and like made those my macros like it’s not that hard you know you don’t have to like spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to figure it out and um created my first recipes and found a co-packer to make them and I knew you know because I didn’t want any food liability I wanted a really strong co-packer to be the producer for them found one that ah you know where they saw the vision they understood what we were about and supported us and got our product launched and 11:05.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, Expo West was this trade show, you know, it was a trade show in the food industry. It’s the largest natural products convention in the entire world. And if anybody hasn’t been to it, just imagine seven convention centers all smashed together in Anaheim, hundreds of thousands of people, like 3000 plus exhibitors. It’s literally and figuratively like Disneyland. Like it’s just, it’s a zoo. It’s, there’s so many people. And we got our little 10 by 10 booth and at the, you know, they have this like new products part of natural expo that opens a day before or used to. 11:35.43Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we got our booth set up and we were ready to rock. 11:37.30vigorbrandingMm hmm. 11:37.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEWe were going to go show our bars. We had this whole warehouse full of new bars to show buyers. 11:39.71vigorbrandingand 11:41.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s how it’s going to get people excited. And then the pandemic. And that was the first thing to get canceled. And literally we got this call like shows not going to happen. So break down your booth. 11:51.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, and it was like such a wild time. 11:52.43vigorbrandingYep. 11:55.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And people were really, you know, unsure of what was going to happen. And, you know, ah brands were not able to get into stores to pitch or any buyers, everything kind of went on hold because every grocery store was worried about safety for their employees and how to keep cleaning products on shelf and Lysol wipes. 12:13.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like nobody was really thinking about like protein bars, right? 12:16.49vigorbrandingRight, right. 12:16.43Clara Paye _ UNiTELike we’re all trying to, you know, that’s what like, I think we all were baking banana bread every day in this power now and like, you know, consoling ourselves with chips and margaritas at, you know, noon. so 12:26.31vigorbrandingYeah. Well, I remember like for us, I mean, you know, one of my companies is Quench, which is a CPG food and beverage. I said, you know, COVID was truly the greatest sampling program in the face of the earth, food and beverage. If you made a product at that time, if you had an established product, you people bought it, people ate it, they put in their pantry, they stacked in their shells. I mean, it was phenomenal time for food. I mean, unfortunately, it was you were too new, right? You couldn’t even take advantage of it. You didn’t even get a chance to get out of the starting gate. so That’s how to be extremely disappointing. But I think it’s amazing too. Like, okay, so you you come from one industry and and you learn a lot just in business and dealing with people from one industry. But then you you applied to this startup that you didn’t, you’ve never really, you were never in the food business. So you don’t learn how to be a manufacturer, you had to learn about safety, you had to learn about ingredients, legal and and everything and anything. I mean, it’s just, ah it’s an amazing undertaking. How did you how did you learn so much? 13:21.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, like business is a framework. So once you understand product liability, you understand how to ensure against it, right? And you learn that, you know, you have to look, what are the certifying bodies in your industry, right? 13:35.40Clara Paye _ UNiTELike in, you know, for electrical companies, it’s like UL listing, you know, in food, it’s SQF. 13:35.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 13:40.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s not like the information isn’t that hard to find. So I think it’s like, you know, once you have a framework of, it’s, you know, the product is a widget almost, right? Like how you deal with Lowe’s is how you deal with Target. 13:49.40vigorbrandingMm 13:52.55Clara Paye _ UNiTELike it’s a big box. 13:52.83vigorbrandinghmm. 13:53.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEThey care about many of the same things, right? You have to understand what’s going to happen on the back end of your business. You have to understand how to get that product there on time and in full. And that’s what matters to them. 14:04.49Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I, you know, it’s hard and it’s not. And so for me, I’ve always really relied on my network, Michael, like, like if I don’t know the answer, I know somebody that I know must know the answer. 14:16.44vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:17.09Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I spent a lot of time. I don’t want to say networking, but I think it’s really about building relationships, like mutual like mutually beneficial relationships with people, trust. 14:26.75vigorbrandingSure, trust. 14:29.50Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd when I got into the food space, I was like, I just need to great advisors around me. I need people. 14:33.78vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:33.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I didn’t want like consultants. I wanted people who were also running their businesses, who were going in the trenches, doing it with in in real time. 14:38.08vigorbrandingSure. Skin the game. Yep. 14:41.79Clara Paye _ UNiTEand so you know, having a ah YPO forum of YPO, you know, food CPG people was like one of the ways that I accomplished that and like really creating a forum of people around me that were doing the same things as I was. 14:50.42vigorbrandingMm 14:56.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, there’s a lot of symbiotic um experience there. And we all got to go through COVID together. So it was something I did early on, you know, it was like grabbing people who wanted to go on this journey with me. 15:02.72vigorbrandinghmm. Mm hmm. 15:06.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, You know you’re I think networking is like kind of like a bad word sometimes like people think it’s like you’re using people when you say networking but you’re doing networking right you’re actually at creating value for other people first right and that out it works. 15:13.24vigorbrandingwho yeah 15:20.16vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So now let’s talk. You created the, the you had a product, you you got shut down and covered. So let’s talk about the Unite name. You created a brand and I’m a big brand guy, you know that. I love brands and and I love what you did here. I love the name and I’m not just saying that because you’re here, but this is something I did not know. I read an article and I read about the I in Unite. I should have looked and realized that the lowercase I, but to talk about the brand and how you came up with the name. 15:45.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I mean, so for me is all about that what I was trying to do. So this is like the mission part of like this journey when like you’re over 40 and you’re creating new business. Usually you’re not doing it just for money. You’re really doing it because you feel like something’s missing in the world and you want to make the world a better place. At least that’s my journey. 16:01.60Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd for me, it was like, how can I use food as this instrument of inclusion to improve the lives of people, see people who haven’t been seen, welcome them into wellness, right? And kind of create cultural bridges, right? Where like somebody who I think food is has this unique way of binding people, right? Like it’s the cultural equivalent of bringing your, you know, 16:23.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEyour dish to a potluck and like you know kind of like do you like it you know kind of like yeah having that like you know there’s a moment where you’re like are you sure it’s kind of a little strange or like you know when when people used to come to my home and like be like you know my mom made this thing you don’t have to eat it it’s you know you might not like it and then people loving it and you’re like oh Okay, it’s good. Like it’s safe. Like everyone’s accepted now. And so I think for me, it was like how, you know, food can, can also divide people. But if people make fun of somebody’s food or make fun of flavors, you know, and I think it also can unite. And so I wanted to use it as like, you know, let’s, let’s find common ground. Let’s find flavors that like will resonate with lots of people. And so like the flavors we choose typically are not just like country specific. They’re like region specific. 17:04.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo like, you know, churros are eaten in Spain, in Mexico, and like all over Latin America, right? Baklava is eaten in North Africa, in Greece, in Russia, in Croatia, right? 17:15.03Clara Paye _ UNiTEBubble tea, which sounds like just an Asian, Asian flavor. And yes, it was born in Taiwan, but you know, like but the British drink milk with tea. the in Indian people drink milk with tea, and the Middle East drink milk with tea. 17:25.54Clara Paye _ UNiTELike those flavors are, can resonate with lots of different people. 17:29.23vigorbrandingYeah. 17:29.53Clara Paye _ UNiTESo, and then there’s peanut butter and jelly, and that’s the one where people are like, 17:31.64vigorbrandingYeah. 17:32.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEhuh like you know that’s like that’s not global but it’s like my american heritage is just as important and so i want all people to feel represented and the reason the eye is small and as i think because if you’re trying to connect two sides you yourself have to get smaller to understand the other side and so that you you know to understand the other you know and we live in such a time of division and so like really having a name like unites like it’s really the essence of the brand 17:37.39vigorbrandingyeah 17:58.39Clara Paye _ UNiTEis to, you know, ah seek to understand and seek to find common ground and instead of like how we’re different. 18:05.96vigorbrandingI love it. i mean You obviously have a propensity for for marketing. it’s it’s It’s very smart and very sound, the thinking behind it. and and I’ve had the products that are fantastic. and again I’m not just saying that they’re your your products are absolutely delicious, so you should be very, very proud of that. 18:21.31vigorbrandingum you know and now So we talk about the flavors, so ah we do a food trends presentation every year and we always come up with all these funky flavors and and we we I shouldn’t say funky, we we we learn about things that are popping in different parts of the world and starting to you know bubble up and and and ah you know we we try to grab onto them, I mean all of us as manufacturers, as restaurants, as ah marketers And we try to understand these flavors and how to bring them forth and and introduce something fresh. how do How do you go about finding flavors? How do you go about deciding what the next flavor is going to be? 18:54.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEit’s really intuitive for me but like you know my my hero flavor is churro and like that one was really you know born out of you know I live near Disneyland I live like 15 minutes away and I have small kids and so we were always at Disneyland always the line at the churro cart was kind of like around the corner right and like churro was like definitely this very familiar flavor and like churros are you know they’re eaten they’re They’re not just different for different sake. Many people have had a churro, whether it’s at a fair or at Disneyland or at a carnival. Churro was like not that um outside the box for most people, and it was very approachable. and so like That Disneyland car, just like looking at the lines, I was like, yeah, that could be a really good flavor. How come nobody you know hasn’t really done that? and then 19:44.35Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, I would visit ethnic markets a lot to look at the flavors. 19:47.44vigorbrandingSure. 19:47.62Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I go to Hispanic markets, I go to Korean markets, I go to Japanese markets, you know, I live in an area again, where I’m blessed by diversity. And so I study, you know, when I travel, what are people eating? 19:59.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhat, you know, what are people, you know, what do people enjoy? And I really, I mean I the first flavors are really like things that I loved so I just wanted to create things you know flavors and then I tested them on my friends and I probably Michael I probably made like 15 or 20 different flavors before I started right like and kind of like chose the heroes from um the ones that I made and in my kitchen. 20:17.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Now, is there one that you you loved and thought, oh, everyone’s gonna love this and didn’t make it? Is there a flavor that you kind of, what is it? 20:26.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah it was a ah green tea matcha 20:30.55vigorbrandingUh-uh. 20:30.44Clara Paye _ UNiTEflavor and so but green tea powder sometimes can be fishy and it’s like sounds so weird but like it just didn’t work in in scale right and so and there are macho bars out there but I never think that they taste great and so you know I wanted it to have like good product integrity and so like that was like a 20:35.42vigorbrandingOkay. 20:39.37vigorbrandingNot it. 20:45.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 20:48.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, one that like I thought would be, you know, cause if you, if you look at the Starbucks menu, like ah so many, you know, those, those are great flavor cues too. Like, you know, Starbucks spends a lot of time in flavor development. And so you can just, you can take cues from adjacent industries. 21:01.68vigorbrandingSure. We got to work with a lot over the years ah through Quench. We worked with the Hershey Company and we worked with the scientists. And I was always blown away because we’d go in the, and back, this would be like early 90s, we’d go in these rooms or they’d have to swipe a card for the door to open. It seemed very like, 21:17.81vigorbrandingUh, sign sci-fi, you know, and it would it be lab technicians and they’d put drops and they’d be like, here, taste that. What does it taste like? I’m like, well, I taste apple pie. They’re like, wait for it. I’m like, Oh, I taste whipped cream. Wait for it. Oh, I can not taste crust. Like they could do this. I mean, it was like better living through chemistry. They could do all this stuff. 21:36.54vigorbrandingand what it came down to obviously was and this is what is so hard with what you do is now you have to source the ingredients now you have to make sure it’s not a chemical thing and then you have to understand can you can you afford that flavoring at a price point that will be palatable to the consumer so there’s so much involved in all of what you do yeah 21:56.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEThere is so much like, look, all business is hard, but the food business is particularly hard, right? Because you’re, it’s a living, breathing thing, right? And for me, it came down to simplicity. Like I always wanted simple ingredients um because I wanted people to be able to understand what was going into the bar, right? Like I wanted it to be real food and natural. And um so when you have those kinds of like, 22:22.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEBarriers, you know, it’s it helps you and it hurts you right? Like I can’t put in a bunch of processing You know like many large companies can because that’s not the brand value that I’m trying to create or the kind of product I’m trying to create. 22:30.08vigorbrandingRight. Mhm. 22:34.50Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, it’s very hard um You know, we do get a lot of those scientists taking pictures at our booth every year at all the Expos and so people and we have been copied, you know and that’s like just anytime you’re successful at something people are gonna copy you and so 22:45.84vigorbrandingSure. Mhm. 22:50.21Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think at the end of the day, consumers want authenticity. They want you know brands that are creating products that are meaningful to them and will reward those brands. So I don’t really worry about like copycats. I worry more about when they stop copying me. 23:07.91vigorbrandingbut you know and But to your point, and you know weve we’ve been doing a food trends report for over 15 years, and what you are doing and and how you’re doing it is very on trend. It’s not easy. It’s not inexpensive. i mean it’s ah it’s ah you know you there’s you could You could have cut corners along the way on your product, but you don’t do that. I just think that that’s going to pay dividends in the long run. i think that’s such a It’s hard to stick to your ethos, but I think you do a fantastic job of that. so I think it’s something to be proud of. and so and My next thing is, I did not know this, but the I in Unite stands for invite. and I did not realize on the back of every bar there’s an email address that you can people can send directly to you for suggestions on new flavors. Have you have you learned anything from these? Have you gotten anything interesting in the emails? 23:52.30Clara Paye _ UNiTEYes, I love those emails, like those emails come to me. And so I get to interact with the people that write those emails. And, you know, the most meaningful ones are when people will give me a flavor suggestion, but then they’ll also say, thank you for making a bar for us. 24:07.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, thank you. And it’s exactly what I wanted to do. 24:09.63vigorbrandingThat’s super cool. 24:10.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEwhen I, when I set out was like, make the invisible feel seen. 24:12.05vigorbrandingYeah. 24:14.77Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, I know what it’s like to not feel seen. You know, I know what it’s like to like, kind of be in the shadows, like being a woman in the plumbing industry. Perfect example, right? Like you don’t really belong here or you don’t like, you know, somebody that looks like me typically doesn’t work in plumbing, right? 24:29.33Clara Paye _ UNiTElike It’s a very old, old, you know, antiquated kind of industry. And so like when I get those emails, I get really excited and people do have some great ideas and ideas of like things that we’ve actually developed, you know, and just haven’t launched. And, you know, so it’s fun to know that like, it is also on trend for people. 24:49.00vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So I mean, ah um I’m being italian Italian. My wife’s Greek. So yeah, yeah, her mother makes us baklava. So it’s phenomenal. So I love that. I’m really proud to see that you have a baklava in your in your flavors. So you have you have baklava, you have peanut butter and jelly, you have chiro, bubble tea, Mexican hot chocolate. What’s your what’s your favorite? 25:09.34Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it’s like asking me which my favorite kid is. 25:12.05vigorbrandingah We all have one. 25:11.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEum i and I mean, is our hero. 25:12.61vigorbrandingCome on. We all have one. On any given day, we all have one. A favorite kid. 25:18.32Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd churro was like the first bar where I was like, okay, we really have something. 25:19.02vigorbrandingUh-huh. That’s the baby. 25:21.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. But I really also very much like baklava. And it’s similar to churro in that, you know, it’s got kind of like some of the the same kind of spices with the cinnamon. 25:28.18vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut baklava has never been done outside of baklava. 25:31.48vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:32.33Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, think about it, Michael. Like, you’ve never seen a baklava ice cream. You’ve never seen a baklava cracker. 25:35.23vigorbrandingNope. 25:36.56Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you’ve never seen a baklava popcorn. Right? Like it was very unique. 25:40.80vigorbrandingYeah. 25:41.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, when I, before I launched, you know, many of the, the manufacturing partners I met with in the beginning were like, these price flavors are too strange. Like nobody’s going to buy these and like to be, you know, have come full circle and and be like, no, they’re great. 25:54.00Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like Baklava just won a good housekeeping award this year when they’re, you know, best snack award. Churro won the same award last year. 25:59.19vigorbrandingAwesome. 26:00.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like, it’s incredibly validating when, you know, people. like like the product and like, you know, um appreciate it. And it’s got organic honey in it. It’s just really tasty bar. 26:12.34vigorbrandingThat’s great. Well, like I said, you’re the products are amazing. And in a way, I like i look at these flavors and in a way they are they’re kind of all comfort foods, too, right? I mean, they’re, they’re, yeah, they’re all international flavors, but they’re almost like international comfort flavors, you know, it just it kind of feels that way. 26:28.40Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, they’re nostalgic flavors. 26:30.16vigorbrandingYeah. 26:30.11Clara Paye _ UNiTESo they’re foods that you ate in childhood. 26:32.21vigorbrandingRight. 26:32.26Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that was also really important to me. That was also one of the barometers is like childhood flavors. 26:36.76vigorbrandingPerfect. 26:38.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd ironically, I mean, I didn’t develop these for kids, but like kids love our bars and like, duh, they’re childhood flavors, right? Like they’re really for adults, but you know, so we’ve had this like wide range of like consumer interest in our, in our products. And so for me, it’s like about taking you back to kind of like a simpler time. I think, you know, health food specifically is sometimes punitive. Like, Oh, I don’t really like this mushroom powder, but I’m going to drink it because like, i my you know, my, 27:03.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEpodcast said that I’m going to get muscles if I drink it. you know and I’m like more on the other side of wellness. We’re like, let’s make it fun and let’s make it like food you want to eat, not food you have to eat. 27:09.80vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. All right. Well, let’s have some fun here. So, you know, being the research guys that we are and the marketing guys where we came up with our own flavors. So we decided to go around the world. I want your opinion on if these are going to be winners or not. So we’ll start in India, a gulab jambu. It’s very popular dessert. It’s often served during celebrations. It’s fried dough soaked in a rosewater syrup, often garnished with almonds and cashews. 27:40.04Clara Paye _ UNiTE10 out of 10. I think that would like a home run flavor. I’ve actually, you know, my Indian friends have also suggested ah exact flavor and it’s always kind of been in my mind. 27:45.01vigorbrandingYeah. 27:48.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEThe rosewater is the one that’s like, can be polarizing. So, you know, we try to have things that are like, you know, broad appeal, but yeah, I think 10 out of 10 would be a great flavor. 27:57.57vigorbrandingPlus, I’ll say this, I hate to be the total American here, but pronunciation can also be a barrier to people buying something if they can’t if they can’t figure out how to say it. 28:04.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor now, right? 28:06.08vigorbrandingAll right, now we’ll head to Spain, a creamy caramel flan. 28:09.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEI love flan and I think flan is another one of those foods that’s mistaken for like just Latin Americans because lots of people eat flan or you know it’s called sometimes creme caramel it’s called like different things in other regions of the world you know so yeah another great flavor you guys are good at this don um don’t start a bar company Michael. 28:15.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 28:26.72vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, yeah. We would never if we, you know, they’re yours. These are all yours if you want to do them. So you have some friends, we have some employees in Brazil. So um Bolo de Rolo. It’s a light sponge cake. It’s rolled up with a layer of tangy guava jam. 28:43.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEThis one I’ve never heard of, I’ve never had. 28:45.94vigorbrandingright 28:46.23Clara Paye _ UNiTEI’ve not not been to Brazil, so it really piqued my interest. I love guavas. I think tropical fruits, you know, we see that in beverage now. 28:54.85vigorbrandingRight. 28:55.48Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, there’s all kinds of great beverages that have popped up with tropical fruit flavors. 28:56.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:00.70Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd definitely in terms of what global flavor trends, guava I think is still underrated because I love guavas. 29:04.97vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:07.99Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, I think, you know, it’d be interesting to to get the um the sponge cake kind of consistency in a bar because bars tend to be a little bit drier and a little bit harder to to make soft because water stability issues. 29:20.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think that’s super intrigued. I want to go to Brazil, so that’s on my list. 29:24.27vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. There’s an excuse for R and&D. It’s a write-off. um you know Yeah, it’s ah that that’s that’s that’s fun. OK, so we go to Italy ah for some almond biscotti. 29:37.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, I love biscotti, but I think if you’re craving biscotti, eat a biscotti. 29:41.08vigorbrandingYeah, I agree. 29:41.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know 29:42.08vigorbrandingYeah, I don’t think that works in a bar, right? 29:43.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, you know like people tell me, like oh, you should make a hummus flavored bar. I’m like, what? Why don’t you just eat hummus? 29:49.24vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. 29:50.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know For me, it’s about taking some things. Because biscotti is not unhealthy, like typically. like you know If you had one, it’s like it’s fine. 29:55.05vigorbrandingNo. 29:57.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s like a treat. So I typically try to take like higher calorie, higher density things to make them healthy and approachable. 30:02.75vigorbrandingoh 30:05.67vigorbrandingYeah, you’re you’re almost bringing a dessert together to a degree, right? 30:05.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEso i probably Exactly. 30:08.59vigorbrandingYeah. 30:08.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEa 30:09.42vigorbrandingYeah, that totally makes sense. And you know what’s funny? You you just said something that that really kind of stuck with me. though The beverage industry does do a lot of flavors. And it’s really kind of accelerated. I mean, as a company, we were early on with with flavored beverages in the tea category. 30:24.27vigorbrandingAnd we were we had a brand that we worked with for like 15 years. We helped build what’s called Turkey Hill Iced Tea. Excuse me. And it was the first refrigerated tea. a lot of There was teas out there that were shelf-stable, but we were in the refrigerator. Well, the proliferation now of beverages in the refrigerator. You go to a convenience store with just walls of beverages. So there’s a lot of unique flavorings that you see popping up. And I guess that’s that would be a good place to see, I don’t know, what’s acceptable, right? like what are what are What are consumers interested in? 30:53.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I think um it’s a good, again, like I got to take a lot of flavor cues from like a Starbucks or like, you know, what are people drinking? 31:01.08vigorbrandingyeah 31:02.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, what are the flavor cues in beverage that we can borrow from, right? Or we that can inform some of us. I think in beverage, it’s a little bit easier because the flavoring is just like props added to something versus like you’re trying to really create something authentic in food. 31:13.60vigorbrandingYeah, yep, yep. 31:19.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut gosh, I’m just happy I have a shelf stable product. Like I can’t imagine distributing a refrigerated or frozen product. 31:25.52vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah. 31:26.11Clara Paye _ UNiTELike knowing what I know now, it’s like just a whole nother level of of anxiety. 31:30.73vigorbrandingYeah, well in flavoring to own on that side is it’s amazing how if you had some foot, it’s not obvious as a flavor to like what happened to potato chips, right? So we have a snack food category of snack foods. I mean, adding just a new flavor a new fun. It’s it’s amazing how much velocity you get and how much traction we actually did it across the tuna category. 31:49.35vigorbrandingAnd you would think, you know, tuna, we started adding sriracha or different types of hot or or or Thai chili or, I mean, just all these kind of unique flavors. 31:54.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEMm 31:57.94vigorbrandingAnd it’s amazing how it can really ah get you more more ah shelf presence. 31:59.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEhmm. 32:03.65vigorbrandingAnd it also then, ah it creates ah an atmosphere of trial. So it’s ah’s it’s an awful lot of fun for that too. So um so as an entrepreneur who who’s growing and developing a brand that’s still a relatively young brand, ah you just created it four years ago. 32:17.34vigorbrandingWhat are some of your biggest challenges? 32:20.85Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s sad to say, Michael, but like there’s a lot of predatory behavior for emerging brands in the food space, right? 32:26.57vigorbrandinghe 32:26.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhere I think this industry like depends on the turn to a certain degree of like brands to fail, to come in to shoot their shot. And like when they fail, it doesn’t matter because there’s like so many other brands behind them trying to get in that same shelf space. 32:39.58Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I think it’s just being the underdog. like If you look at the shelves that we’re on, we’re competing with behemoths, right? Like billion dollar brands, multi-billion dollar brands, like that control the entire food supply. 32:48.42vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 32:51.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we’re like on the same shelf and like, how can we actually compete to build brand awareness? Like, you know, so you just do it with a radical authenticity. You do it by creating value for the consumer, creating something different, creating a better product. 33:05.17Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut it’s really like having come from a larger company where like, you know, you have some kind of street cred because you are a larger and you’re eight It’s easier to grow a larger company, but to grow from scratch has been like humbling. 33:17.69Clara Paye _ UNiTElike it’s There’s a lot of people who want to put their hand in your pocket, who want to you know take advantage of you, and you have to be astute. 33:18.13vigorbrandingYeah. 33:24.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd again, you have to surround yourself with people that are smart, that will help you avoid the landline, help you clear those paths. but You know, I, um, I also started, um, a nonprofit called included for, you know, people of color in food CPG just because I feel very passionately it’s called included included CPG, um, for people to kind of like not make the same mistakes that I made or kind of try to pull it forward somehow by clearing the path for, you know, I don’t want people to, you know, make the mistakes that we, we’ve made or could have potentially made. 33:49.99vigorbrandingMm hmm. 33:56.73vigorbrandingMm hmm. That’s you’ve you’ve always been one to give back. And I think that’s very admirable. I mean, we were walking around. It was it was it this we were just talking about with the included CPG. 34:09.40vigorbrandingWe were walking around. He was exposed. You had a special section and they they they don’t you had them donate space. What was that for? 34:16.71Clara Paye _ UNiTEum Yes for emerging brands and no for included and so we do do that at the fancy food show and at Expo West every year and so we kind of run kind of a mini incubator accelerator For these brands and help them get that space and be ready to pitch and you know, you have to be market ready So it’s not like for a brand that’s like pre-launch it’s like, you know if you have some kind of like established brand presence and really hoping to elevate them to the next level because those trade shows are so expensive and it’s so primitive and so anything that we can do to 34:18.69vigorbrandingOh, OK. 34:43.19vigorbrandingYeah. 34:46.50Clara Paye _ UNiTELevel the playing field to like help an emerging brand win is like I just it just lights me up I like it makes me so happy because These are the people improving the food systems. 34:57.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people that are bringing healthy Products to market. 34:57.35vigorbrandingRight. 35:01.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people who are you know, taking their family recipes and trying to share them with the world 35:06.90vigorbrandingWell, I mean, I admire you because you’re able to, I could see you walking into those shows and asking for them to give you all this space. And I know how you are. You do with a smile, but you’re pretty emphatic and I’m sure you always get your way. 35:19.64vigorbrandingCause I know I sit in meetings with you and when I’m, and when I miss a meeting, I have to answer to you, but you do with a smile, but you always hold people accountable and you get what you want. And I do respect that. So sure. 35:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, I mean, it’s been a great partnership with New Hope and the Specialty Food Association. And it just, it aligns with their value. So they actually are great partners. And so it’s a, you know, and it’s a team. It’s not just me. There’s like five other founders on the leadership team have included. So, you know, we, we are really working hard to improve um the food systems. 35:51.19vigorbrandingwhat So what ah what do a lot of these folks, i mean thankfully they have you ah to sort of open up the door for them, literally to bring them into the into these shows. so like What do you see a mistake made by ah want to be entrepreneurs? what What do they do wrong? Or what do what do you think and in the brand creation process? What do you what do what do you think that they they do wrong a lot? 36:11.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, it’s probably something we did wrong too, but it’s like trying to pretend you’re a big brand when you’re not, right? Like, yes, you can get on that shelf, but are you ready? Can you support it the same way a big brand does? 36:20.43vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:22.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEDo you know all the levers to pull, right? 36:24.66vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:25.09Clara Paye _ UNiTElike And it’s hard to say, like, it’s hard when the opportunity knocks not to take it, right? 36:30.71vigorbrandingSure. 36:31.30Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like that discipline of knowing, you know, What is the actual contribution margin of this account? And, you know, is it just like, or does it accomplish something else? So I think it’s like biting off a little bit more than you can chew. 36:44.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And then the one that I pay attention very closely to is quality. I think quality can sink your company so fast. You know, one quality issue, one copacker issue, one whatever issue. 36:53.05vigorbrandingyeah 36:54.04Clara Paye _ UNiTESo if you’re not paying attention to your product, you know, so closely, um that can really be a landmine because you can always create more brands. But you know, if your brand name is like tainted, it’s hard for you. 37:07.44vigorbrandingRight. I mean, some people might not even know like that. I think people assume because you have a brand, that you actually make it yourself. And you know, there are co-packers out there and a lot of brands use co-packers and you’re handing off your basically your baby and your promise, you know, a brand is a promise, your promise to the consumer to someone else to make. Obviously, there’s there’s checks and balances there. But it it is a, you know, there’s there’s places along the way that you have to count on a lot of partners. And it’s a, I’m sure it’s a difficult business, you know, 37:36.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEI think you have to think of your co-man relationships as kind of like your investors because they’re investing their line time, their energy you know to develop your brand as well. 37:40.66vigorbrandinghere Yep. 37:44.95Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it is a partnership. You’re not just like, you know. Um, taking and giving, right? is It’s truly a partnership but if done right. And like, yeah, I like to, I like to actually preface a lot of my buyer meetings by saying, Hey, by the way, I don’t make this in my garage. 37:56.50vigorbrandingMm 37:57.57Clara Paye _ UNiTEI, you know, because like the, the bias is if you’re like an emerging, I have a dream person and you’re like, make as far as in your garage and like packaging them up and sending them out. 38:01.10vigorbranding-hmm. 38:07.22Clara Paye _ UNiTEI thought there’s anything wrong with that. But like, when you’re trying to pitch a fortune, you know, 100 company, they got to make sure that, you know, you have your ducks in a row. 38:09.52vigorbrandingRight. eat Yeah. Yeah. 38:14.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that’s a good qualifier. 38:17.32vigorbrandingYeah, Target doesn’t want you like ah to think you’re baking the night before. That’s funny. But I mean, yeah, it’s ah yeah’s it’s true. And it’s amazing all of the the hurdles, I’ll say, that you have to go through. So you have a great, yeah there’s a quote that you like to talk about. lot Winston Churchill, success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. And you’re always enthusiastic. You want to talk a little bit about some of those things that you had to bump up against, some of your failures, some of the things that you had to pivot. 38:44.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEOh, there’s so many, Michael. I mean, every, if it’s, if it was easy, everyone would do it, you know, like I say that, but it’s like, it’s so true. 38:49.31vigorbrandingSure. 38:51.46Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, you know, and every entrepreneur I talk to in the food space or any space, it’s like, you gotta be able to take those hits and get back up. 38:57.56vigorbrandingOh, yeah. 38:59.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut the getting back up is really hard, right? 39:02.31vigorbrandingMm hmm. 39:02.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEEspecially when there’s like, you could do something else with your time. You could do something else with your energy. 39:06.20vigorbrandingGreat. 39:07.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s where like a mission becomes really important. And it’s like, what’s actually driving you? 39:11.03vigorbrandingMm 39:11.36Clara Paye _ UNiTECause if it’s money, you’ll give up. There’s way easier ways to make money. 39:15.17vigorbrandinghmm. 39:15.47Clara Paye _ UNiTELike if I wanted to go make money, I’d just take my money and invest it in real estate or whatever. I’m like, yes, we do that too. but It’s really about mission for me. And so what drives you to like make the world a better place, have a lasting impact, create products that resonate with people. 39:31.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so success is just a barometer. It’s just an outcome of you living that up. But like, you know, there are times, I mean, I think if you’re not ready to throw in the towel every month in your business, are you even an entrepreneur? 39:42.90Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you know, like it’s just, it’s the getting back up. 39:43.50vigorbrandingRight. 39:46.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s like that loss of enthusiasm is what gets you. And like another way to send that is like burnout. If you’ve burned out, it’s too late. So I make sure that I don’t burn out. 39:52.89vigorbrandingYep. Yeah, that’s very smart. That’s actually very sage advice right there. Because look, these businesses, no matter how ah exciting they are, or how long you’ve been doing them, you do hit those those troughs, you do hit the burnout phase. I mean, personally, I started my first agency 33 years ago. And it’s, you know, ah yeah well and during this whole time with COVID, there’s so much change. And and and you know You think, well, you’ve been doing this for a long time. Everything think just should be on autopilot. No. I mean, I probably worked harder in the last couple of years. I did maybe in some of the middle years. I don’t know. It’s just just a different time. So yeah, the entrepreneur thing, I think everyone takes it for granted or everyone looks over and says, oh, you’ve done that. Or you have money because of this. And ah most people don’t realize those days and those sleepless nights and those weekends and the you know the the fears of everything from bankruptcy to lawsuits to everything else. We all go through it. right i mean every 40:45.92vigorbrandingi get to I’m very fortunate i get to talk to a lot of founders, I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, and a lot of successful people, and they all have the same they all have those same stories. Every one of them has that nightmare, like, yeah, there was this time when, and you know you didn’t think there was a tomorrow. so it’s ah ah you know it’s ah It’s good to hear, it because your story, you’ve seen it all all the way around from your father to to starting up now and what you’re doing. and I love that you stick to your guns. because ah Again, you can cut corners. You could do things faster, cheaper, but not better. And I think that what you do is ah is really remarkable. And i again, I know it’s going to pay off in the long run. So so what’s what’s next for you tonight? I mean, are there any new flavors? If you can’t talk about it, I understand. But if theres is there anything new products or flavors or anything exciting on the horizon? 41:29.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, there is a new flavor. It’s called Hot Fudge Sunday. We’ll be launching soon. And so we’re really excited about that flavor, another nostalgic childhood treat. 41:35.70vigorbrandingAwesome. Yep. 41:38.67Clara Paye _ UNiTEAlso some different, you know, we’re looking at different formats, kind of some adjacent things. So definitely an innovation pipeline out there. 41:43.72vigorbrandingthat 41:44.39Clara Paye _ UNiTESo hoping to launch some other products. But really, I want to win at bars first and, um you know, really own our category and really, you know, make sure that our velocities stay up and and everything is is good with bars. 41:59.13vigorbrandingFantastic. All right, so one last question. And you can’t be one of your bars. But if you had one last final meal, what would you eat? Where? Why? 42:09.00Clara Paye _ UNiTESuch a good question. I mean, I’m a California girl, so it’d probably be an In-N-Out cheeseburger, ah you know, and and yeah some french fries and egg steak, animals for sure, animal style. 42:15.08vigorbrandingThere you go. All right. I respect that answer. That’s a great answer. Animal animal style, I hope. 42:25.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEum You know, it’s kind of like, that’s the meal when we travel abroad or something and you get back, you’re like, oh, I just want an In-N-Out burger. 42:26.67vigorbrandingah 42:30.92vigorbrandingYeah. 42:31.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it just, it feels like home. And I think that goes back to nostalgia and childhood too. 42:35.15vigorbrandingAnybody that with work or or or whatever, friends or family that travel with me, they know when I land in California, that’s one of the first things I do and I will not leave until I do it. It might not be the very first thing I get to do if I have a meeting, but I will have in and out before I get on that plane to fly back east. 42:51.43vigorbrandingso That’s a great answer. 42:51.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEThat’s right. 42:52.84vigorbrandinggreat answer so Anyway, Claire, thank you. This was awesome. I you know i appreciate you. ah you know I’ve known you a long time and it’s just so cool to hear your story and see what you’re up to and congratulations. 43:03.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michaels. Fun to be on. 43:06.07vigorbrandingAwesome. Thanks.

Winegrowing regions in Washington State have many unique challenges from salty soils, to low organic matter, to nematodes. Devin Rippner, Research Viticulture Soil Scientist with USDA-ARS and his colleagues at Washington State University are developing a research vineyard to study soil health building practices. They are testing a variety of management strategies including adjusting irrigation volume to correct for salt build-up, mowing for weed management, compost applications and synthetic fertilizers, and different cover crops. The team is tracking the cost of each practice and will ultimately evaluate wine quality in the coming years. Taking a deeper dive into the future of soil sampling, Devin explains X-ray CT imagery. He has used this technology to evaluate the structure and organic matter from soil columns and aggregates. X-ray CT imagery has also been used to evaluate the impact grape seeds have on tannin flavor profiles. Resources:         80: (Rebroadcast) The Goldilocks Principle & Powdery Mildew Management 90: Nematode Management for Washington Grapes A workflow for segmenting soil and plant X-ray CT images with deep learning in Google's Colaboratory Devin Rippner, USDA ARS Functional Soil Health Healthy Soils Playlist Red Wine Fermentation Alters Grape Seed Morphology and Internal Porosity Soil Health in Washington Vineyards Vineyard soil texture and pH effects on Meloidogyne hapla and Mesocriconema xenoplax Washington Soil Health Initiative Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: Wine growing regions in Washington State have many unique challenges from salty soils to low organic matter to nematodes. [00:00:13] Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director. [00:00:23] In today's podcast, Craig McMillan, Critical Resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates, with longtime SIP certified vineyard and the first ever SIP certified winery, speaks with Devin Rippner, Research Viticulture Soil Scientist with USDA ARS. [00:00:41] Devin and his colleagues at Washington State University are developing a research vineyard to study soil health building practices. [00:00:49] They are testing a variety of management strategies, including adjusting irrigation volume to correct for salt buildup, mowing for weed management, Compost applications and synthetic fertilizers and different cover crops. The team is tracking the cost of each practice and will ultimately evaluate wine quality in the coming years. [00:01:08] Taking a deeper dive into the future of soil sampling. Devin explains X ray CT imagery. He has used this technology to evaluate the structure in organic matter from soil columns and soil aggregates. X ray CT imagery has also been used to evaluate the impact that grape seeds have on tannin flavor profiles. [00:01:28] Now let's listen in. [00:01:29] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today is Devin Rippner. He is a research soil scientist with the USDA agricultural research service. He's based out of Prosser, Washington, and he's also an adjunct in the department of crop and soil sciences with Washington state university. [00:01:46] Devin, thanks for being here. [00:01:48] Devin Rippner: Absolutely. Pleasure to be here, Craig. [00:01:50] Craig Macmillan: You are on the leadership team of the Washington State Soil Health Initiative. I think it's a pretty cool little program. Tell us what it is and what it's all about. [00:01:59] Devin Rippner: Yeah, absolutely. So the Washington State Legislature allocated funding to study soil health and soil health building practices in a variety of agricultural systems and so to access that money a number of groups put in competitive proposals at the Prosser Irrigated Agriculture Research and Extension Center, we put in a proposal to study soil health in wine grape systems. [00:02:24] Originally, we actually had it in juice grapes as well, but we were not able to get enough funding for both. Juice grapes are actually a big product out of Washington. [00:02:32] Craig Macmillan: I did not know that. That's interesting. What varieties? [00:02:34] Devin Rippner: Mostly Concord? [00:02:36] I'm less familiar with it. It's something I would, I would like to work in cause they have different constraints than wine grapes. [00:02:41] Ours is focused on wine grapes, but there are systems looking at tree fruit, at potatoes, at small crane cropping systems. There are a variety of systems that are being evaluated. [00:02:54] Craig Macmillan: I looked at a flyer that kind of outlined some of the ideas and issues around , the Wine Grape part. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:03:01] Devin Rippner: we have fairly unique soils. We have pretty alkaline soils here in Washington. We're on the arid side of the Cascades. So think Reno rather than like Seattle. we tend to accumulate salts. We also have very coarse textured soils. So a lot of sands to sandy loams or loamy sands. Very little clay. [00:03:23] We have typically under 10 percent clay in a lot of the grape growing regions of washington. we also have low organic matter, because it doesn't rain much here. There has never been a chance for a lot of plants to grow. And so we just have never really built up organic matter. So we typically have about, let's say, maybe 1 percent to 2 percent organic matter in our soils. [00:03:44] That's about half a percent carbon to 1 percent carbon, which is typically it's pretty low for a lot of soils. [00:03:50] Craig Macmillan: It is. [00:03:51] Devin Rippner: those are some of, some of the like unique challenges around soil health. There's also problems with pests. Haven't had too much of an issue with Phylloxera. That's changing. [00:04:01] There are a variety of nematode pests that cause problems in grapes here. When you plant a vineyard into an old vineyard, you're basically putting baby vines into a place that might have a bunch of pests that aren't a big deal for really mature vines. [00:04:14] But as soon as you put a baby in that environment, it does not thrive. [00:04:18] Finding ways to deal with nematode pests, things like that over time , is really important. So those are kind of the things that we are, we are looking at, at our site. [00:04:27] Craig Macmillan: What kind of practices are you investigating to address these things? I hadn't really thought of that about it till now, but nematode is a good one. that's a tough pest. [00:04:37] Devin Rippner: funny thing is this is a long term site, right? So, so our practices for those will really come later. I had a nematologist that worked for me. And she evaluated our soils for for the pathogenic nematodes for wine grapes, and we don't really have them but the thing is they build over time, right? [00:04:52] Just because there might be a few in that soil But when they start colonizing the grape roots over time, they can become problematic We functionally have a rootstock trial at the end of all of our experimental rows and, and rootstocks have been found to be very effective at preventing nematode problems or decreasing the severity of nematode problems. [00:05:13] We will be able to kind of look at that with our rootstock trial. [00:05:17] Craig Macmillan: Do you have any of the GRN stocks in that? [00:05:19] Devin Rippner: We don't, so we have own rooted vines and then we have Telekey 5c 1103p 110r. Let's see then I think St. George [00:05:30] I'm trying to remember what, what the last one is. It's escaping me right now. I apologize. [00:05:34] Craig Macmillan: Well, no, it's all right. Some of the more common root stocks, basically the ones that are very popular. [00:05:39] Devin Rippner: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:41] The reality is that a lot of the like vitis rupestris, vitis riparia, , they are less prone to nematode parasitism. Than Vinifera. , that's the reality of it. [00:05:50] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. Less susceptible. I think it's probably the best way to put it. Nothing's bulletproof when it comes to this, this problem. [00:05:57] Devin Rippner: And Michelle Moyer in Washington has been doing a lot of work with this, with Inga Zasada, who's a USDA scientist. And their, their results are really cool. They're finding that when you try to fumigate, it helps for a little while, but the rebound is bad, and it's just easier to just use rootstocks. [00:06:15] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. Talk to me a little bit more about, you said salinity can be an issue [00:06:19] Devin Rippner: Yeah, [00:06:20] Craig Macmillan: So here's the, the back and forth on that. You would think that a, a coser, your textured soil salinity would be less of an issue, but you don't get the rain to take advantage of that. Is that , the issue here? [00:06:30] Devin Rippner: 100%. That's exactly it. We build up layers called caliche layers, which are evidence of a lack of water moving downward. [00:06:38] So it's, it's really evidence of water moving down and then back up due to evaporation. We get big buildups of carbonates in our soils and carbonates are a type of salt. [00:06:48] So as you apply other chemicals, Salts, a salty irrigation water , we tend to build up salts in our soils. A lot of our irrigation water comes from the Yakima River or other rivers in the area, columbia River. But there are places where people are on deeper wells and they are seeing salt accumulation in their vineyards. [00:07:06] And it's, it's really challenging to deal with. [00:07:09] Craig Macmillan: Do you have any strategies that you're looking at? Anything you're trying out? [00:07:13] Devin Rippner: at our site over time, we're going to look at higher irrigation volumes versus lower irrigation volumes and seeing if that will change the accumulation of salt at our site. , that's kind of the main experiment around that with our soil health vineyard. [00:07:27] Craig Macmillan: Obviously you're doing this with some pretty salty irrigation water and you're comparing that to less salty water. At one site, you're only gonna have one type of water, right? [00:07:36] Devin Rippner: Right. That's not something that we'll be able to do, but one of the interesting things is we are applying compost and. Our compost can be pretty salty. [00:07:45] So we'll, we'll be getting compost. That'll be kind of four decisiemen per meter. I I'm sorry to use those units and so that, so that is salty. [00:07:54] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, it's salty. [00:07:55] Devin Rippner: Young grapevines, if they grew only in that, they would really struggle. It's over the, the two deciSiemen per meter kind of threshold for grapevines. That's something where we're, you know, we are using clean irrigation water, but some of our amendments coming in can be saltier. [00:08:10] When we have kind of a, a low and high irrigation treatment, we can evaluate the salt accumulation in the root zone. From that particular amendment, right? [00:08:19] Craig Macmillan: What about other types of fertilizer? Are there organic fertilizers or something like that that might be less of a salt contributor than let's say a traditional nitrate based fertilizer? [00:08:28] Devin Rippner: As it turns out, at least for us, we don't apply. a massive amount of nitrogen to our grapevines, so we're often applying between 20 and say 60 pounds of N per year which is not a lot compared to say corn or, tree fruit or, or hops or things like that. [00:08:45] And so we, we don't, Exactly. Expect to see a buildup of, of those salts over time. Honestly, some of the organic amendments end up being saltier than our fertilizer. [00:08:55] That's something when we do a high and low for irrigation, we will be able to look at the accumulation of, of nitrates and things like that. [00:09:02] Cause in our arid environment, you do get accumulations of nitrate, which is kind of funny. [00:09:06] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's interesting. You also mentioned the soil pH, alkalinity. What, what's going on there? How bad is it in different spots? What can you do about it? I, I'm fascinated by this because like when you look at viticulture, you have like a lot of knobs on the mixing board, right? You got a lot of sliders and, Soil , you can't slide it very well. It's like very hard to make changes to soil over time. [00:09:33] Devin Rippner: it is. [00:09:33] Craig Macmillan: very slow and very difficult. So I'm very interested in , this issue here. [00:09:39] Devin Rippner: It's funny at our site, the soil pH isn't too bad. It's about 8. Across the board, from the, from the top that so, so we've been measuring from the top of the soil down to about 90 centimeters. About three feet. We do see a pH tick up in our sub soil, but still it's, it's around the eights. [00:09:56] We actually have a lot of carbonates in our soil. There's only more organic carbon in the top six inches of our soil. And from that point on, most of our carbon is in the form of carbonates. [00:10:06] Which is kind of unique. And so once you get down to like 60 to 90 centimeters, so two to three feet in the soil, functionally, 90 percent of the soil carbon is carbon from carbonate. [00:10:16] So dealing with that in the region there's wide variation, so people that are planting into old wheat ground where they've used a lot of ammonium based fertilizers or urea, the pH can be in the fives. And then I, I mean, I've measured soil pH is up to about 9. 8 around here. So, so quite high. [00:10:35] Those soils are hard to deal with. So these are carbonate buffered systems. So to try to lower the pH, you basically have to get rid of all the carbonates. And that is not really feasible. We do see in some of the vineyards that we work in. And again, a lot of this data is preliminary. [00:10:51] I'm trying to get stuff out right now. Getting the vineyard set up has been a massive undertaking. And I've been lucky to work with a great team to, to get it done, but it has taken a lot of my time. [00:11:01] Um, but we, we do see seasonal fluctuations with irrigation. So soils might start off with a pH around eight drop over the course of the growing season into the sixes and then as they dry down for winter time. So we cut irrigation. The pH will start to rise back up as the carbonates move from the subsoil to the surface. [00:11:21] Craig Macmillan: Interesting. Interesting. Let's talk about your vineyard. If I understand correctly, you have a research vineyard there in Prosser that you are building from scratch or have built from scratch. Is that true? [00:11:30] Devin Rippner: Yes. . It is a new vineyard to study soil health building practices. We just finished our second season. And we were very lucky. Vina Matos which is a company out of Portugal. They mechanically planted it for us. [00:11:45] Scientist, so it's, it was, yeah, it was a bit of an undertaking. Even now I've gotten a lot better on a tractor than I was. And, you know, I like to run, like, I'd like to do x ray stuff. And then I'm out there on a tractor, like, yeah, doing stuff. It's a unique challenge. [00:11:59] So we do have a vineyard manager Dr. Liz Gillespie is the vineyard manager. , she honestly does most of the tracker work. I only sub in when she's down with an illness or something like that. [00:12:09] It's been a team effort for the last couple of years. [00:12:12] Craig Macmillan: What are you doing in there? You've talked about a couple of topics, but, and how big is this, this vineyard? [00:12:17] Devin Rippner: It's not that big. It's about 4. 1 acres. , [00:12:20] Craig Macmillan: that's, you know, for research, that's good. [00:12:22] Devin Rippner: yeah, yeah, it is good. We functionally have a business as usual. So we call it our Washington 2021 standard. So it's kind of what growers just do. So that's spraying undervined for weed control and then just let resident vegetation pop up where it may and mow it down. [00:12:39] Most people don't spray or till , their tractor rows. They just. Kind of let it go. We don't get that much rain. You end up selecting for annual grasses it's actually a pretty good weed composition for a tractor row. So then we start building from there. [00:12:52] One of our treatments is what if you just mowed everywhere, right? The goal is to select for annual grasses everywhere over time. [00:12:59] And then we have another treatment where we're mowing everywhere. But we're applying compost for fertilization. Our other treatments get synthetic fertilizers for fertilization, and then we have our compost treatment where we're mowing. [00:13:12] Then we have an undervined cover crop, so that's like our cover crop treatment. [00:13:16] We're curious about undervine legume cover crops. So we have a short subterranean clover that , we've seated in to hopefully eventually start adding nitrogen to the system and, and hopefully we'll be able to back off on more of the synthetic fertilizers over time in that system, but we'll let the vines guide us, right? [00:13:35] Craig Macmillan: What species of clover is that? [00:13:37] Devin Rippner: I'm not sure the exact, so it would be like Dalkey. [00:13:39] it's a clover that basically has low flowers and shoots seed downward. And so , that allows it to replant itself really effectively. [00:13:47] The flowers tend to be below the foliage. So we won't have to worry about mowing them down too badly. , they stay low. And so that's why we selected that. just to try to keep the flowers low and keep foliage away from our vines. [00:14:01] Craig Macmillan: Anything else? [00:14:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah, so then we have our aspirational treatment, which is kind of a mix of the subterranean clover cover crop. And then we have compost fertilization and then kind of breaking the full factorial. We're actually changing what's in , , the tractor row. We're planting an intermediate wheatgrass. [00:14:20] We started with crusted wheatgrass. It's so funny with these experiments. , we seeded in crusted wheatgrass a couple of times and just did not take it's not very effective for competing against other weeds, and it's not very good with traffic. And so now , we're seeding in intermediate wheatgrass. [00:14:35] , it is more traffic tolerant and is more weed tolerant. So we're hoping that we'll be able to outcompete all the other annual grasses and just have kind of a perennial grass cover crop. [00:14:46] Craig Macmillan: Is it on these courses? So is this camp is compaction less of a problem? I would think. [00:14:53] Devin Rippner: We do have some compaction. That we've seen out there. Certainly mechanical planting can cause some extra compaction. It, it takes a lot of force to, you know, rip a giant hole in the ground to drop the vines into. And so we do see some compaction from that. [00:15:06] We have taken bulk density cores from all over the vineyard. And we're hoping to see changes over time in that compaction. So we've done bulk density course from under vine and then in the tractor row. And so we're hoping that over time, these various practices will alter the bulk density, hopefully lower the bulk density in the tractor row. [00:15:27] Craig Macmillan: And then I'm assuming that you're also keeping track of costs for these things. [00:15:32] Devin Rippner: yes, we have been keeping track of costs. We are keeping track of the hourly labor , for mowing. Honestly, we've, we've purchased some undervine mowers and , we have really struggled to find a good solution for our young vines. [00:15:45] We're going to, Purchase another one soon. The biggest thing is that if you have a swing arm on it, it's got to be gentle enough that it, it'll push out of the way , with a bamboo stake in the ground. [00:15:55] And a lot of the existing swing arm mowers for orchards and vineyards it takes a lot of force to move that swing arm. [00:16:03] It's been a real challenge for us. So, so we ended up having people go out with weed eaters, which is super expensive and is actually something that some vineyards do either biodynamic vineyards in the area that they'll send people out with weed eaters to go control the weeds under vine. [00:16:17] I don't want this to be just like a hyper specialized science experiment. If we're sending people out with weed eaters, it sounds a little bit ridiculous, but there are folks in the industry that do it. So it's not. It's not that ridiculous. [00:16:28] Craig Macmillan: It's not that ridiculous. It's legitimate. [00:16:31] Whatever tool that you can make work, depending on the size of your vineyard and depending on what your conditions are. But yeah, you're in row mode. That's going to be an issue until these vines are mature to no doubt about that. I hope you still have a vineyard after knocking down these bamboo stakes. [00:16:44] You don't have like real results yet. You've only just gotten started. [00:16:47] Devin Rippner: We've only just gotten started you know, some of the results that we got were prior to our planting, there were no differences among our treatment blocks for our treatments across the site. So that's nice kind of starting at a, a pretty even baseline. [00:17:03] We're going to track the changes over time. Honestly. I hate to speculate, we don't have the data for it yet, but we've been applying, our synthetic fertilizers based on our like compost mineralization rate. And one of the things that's pretty obvious when you walk out there is that weed competition is brutal for young vines. [00:17:23] So where we're spraying with herbicide under the vines, there's less weed competition. Those vines are just bigger., [00:17:28] we're going to up the amount of fertilizer that we apply next year to try to, like, get around that. And it's one of the challenges at our site is that for long term research, we have to manage our vineyard in a way that kind of limits how many comparisons that we can make. Functionally, two out of our three rows are buffers. It just eats up an enormous amount of space and I'm, I'm hesitant to start putting other treatments into those areas. Like, oh, what if we vary the fertilizer rate to see what the effect is with relation to mowing, right? [00:18:01] So can we get over the weed pressure by, Applying more fertilizer. One of my main takeaways is that a lot of the recommendations that you might get for like, for conventional management won't necessarily work if you're trying to change your system [00:18:16] That's where, you know, growers are going to have to play around and understand that if they're mowing under vine, there is going to be more weed pressure and those weeds take up nitrogen. [00:18:27] You may have to fertilize more. I mean, that, that's just a consequence of, of weed competition. [00:18:32] Craig Macmillan: yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. And in irrigation water too, [00:18:37] Devin Rippner: Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. They use a lot of water. There's no doubt about it. [00:18:42] Craig Macmillan: Which actually brings me back to the clover. I planted crimson clover in my yard once and I irrigated it and it was really pretty and I actually put two and a half foot, three foot high risers off of my lawn sprinklers to get a sprinkler high enough that I could keep growing it. And I was able to grow it up to about three feet tall and it was gorgeous. It was absolutely amazing. But it does make me wonder if, what's a subterranean clover? It's a low growing clover, but how much effect does irrigation have on it in terms of making it taller or taller? [00:19:13] Devin Rippner: That's a good question. I haven't looked into it that much. I consulted with some colleagues here. Who've done work with a variety of cover crops, and they were the ones that recommended the subterranean clover. It has a short stature and part of it is because of how it flowers and seeds, it can't get that tall because it's, it pushes its seeds into the ground. [00:19:32] And so there's no real benefit for it getting taller because then it will be farther away from where it needs to put its seeds. [00:19:39] That's a real concern. I mean, I've learned so much by , having a vineyard gophers, voles, rats, mice, they can be problematic. Right. And if you have a tall cover crop, that's getting into your vines, like that's an easy pathway up. [00:19:52] Keeping the, those undervine weeds and cover crops short is really important. [00:19:58] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. It's also really important for the success of your predators. [00:20:01] Your barn nows and whatnot. They can't really do much when things are tall. So keep going, keep good luck. You're in it. You're in it now, Devon, [00:20:09] Devin Rippner: Oh, yeah. No, that's what it feels like. I feel like I jumped into the deep end of a pool, but didn't realize it was so deep. And so, yeah, I'm learning. [00:20:17] Craig Macmillan: Because prior to a few years back, cause you were, you were at Davis and you were at the Oakville station. Is that right? For a little while. [00:20:24] Devin Rippner: I pulled some samples from Oakville, but no, I was mostly on main campus. I'm a soil chemist by training. Grapevines are relatively new for me. I worked for Andrew McElrone, who , does some great work a lot of my previous work did not involve grapes, and it was mainly, like, tomatoes or other annual crops, and often, like, pretty lab based stuff. [00:20:47] And so this has been a real deep dive for me to do something different. [00:20:53] Craig Macmillan: which is an excellent transition to some of your work which you did at other crops, but you also did some other interesting things related to vines and to soil. And that is x ray CT imagery. You were the first person to introduce me to this concept. I I had no idea I guess I should say X ray micro CT imagery. What, what are the exact terminology? What is it? What can it do? What can we learn? [00:21:20] Devin Rippner: Thanks for bringing this up. Let me just try to keep it simple and I'll build out from there. Just like a doctor's office where you can get an X ray you can actually X ray soils. And plants and look inside of them. X ray computed tomography is where instead of just taking one x ray, maybe you take 1000 x rays as the sample is slowly moving. And what you end up with is the ability to make a three D reconstruction of that sample. Where you're able to look inside of it. [00:21:50] Materials that absorb x rays look different than materials that don't absorb x rays. And so you're able to start Teasing apart structures that are inside of plants and soils [00:22:01] There's different levels to that. Humans have X ray computed tomography done on them, right? You can go in and have that procedure done to look inside of you. It's very much like an MRI there are some tools that it. look at very big volumes. And then there are some tools that look at very small volumes. [00:22:19] That's where there's the x ray microcomputed tomography is looking at very small volumes. And a lot of times those instruments they're low often located. With synchrotrons. So a synchrotron is a particle accelerator that moves electrons at about the speed of light. And then as they're going at the speed of light, , it bends them, it shifts the path of the electrons. [00:22:43] And in doing so , Theory of relativity says that when you have a big shift , in the direction of these electrons they must lose energy. And so they lose energy as the brightest light that we know of in the known universe. And so some of that light are x rays and those x rays are very tunable, and there's a lot of them. [00:23:03] And so we can basically focus on a really tiny area. And still have a lot of x rays. That lets us look at really small things and still have like good contrast and be able to image them relatively quickly. This field is advancing quickly. I know it sounds pretty crazy to talk about x raying soils and plants and things like that. [00:23:23] But the reality is these x rays can also be used to identify elements. And so you can do elemental speciation. So you can be like, Oh, all of the phosphorus there is as phosphate rather than some other form or it's calcium phosphate, not magnesium phosphate. That's called x ray adsorption, near edge structures. [00:23:42] That's how people do that. A long time ago, these instruments used to be unique. You do like a tomography and then you do like these Zains do elemental information, but those things are converging. Now it's possible to do like x ray CT and also do elemental analysis and speciation on the same sample. [00:24:01] in 100 years, that may be how we do our soil testing is you literally have one of these instruments on the back of a tractor. You pull a soil core. You do a quick scan and you say, here's our structure. We can also see the organic matter inside of the soil column. And then by inference from the outer edge of the soil column, we can get What elements are there and what form they're in and then make predictions on their availability. [00:24:27] Were very far from that, but that's like the vision that I have in my head is that at some point, , these will be sensors that people can just use in the field. Will they use an enormous amount of energy? Absolutely. Technology has, shifted in my lifetime and a lot of things that have seemed absurd in the past are now commonplace. [00:24:47] Craig Macmillan: What kinds of things, and it can be other crops as well, but in particular, there was one you did with, I think, grape seeds. Those are the things that can do what, what have you actually. Zapped [00:24:59] Devin Rippner: Yeah. [00:24:59] Craig Macmillan: a better word. [00:25:01] Devin Rippner: You know. [00:25:01] Craig Macmillan: mind here. Okay. So [00:25:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah. So I work with a lot of folks at different national labs. So the Pacific Northwest National Lab is a lab I work at a lot. And we've done a lot of imaging of soil cores and they're big soil cores. So three inches by 12 inch soil cores and to look at soil structure and we're working on segmenting out organic matter from them. [00:25:22] That's something that was not previously possible, but with modern neural networks and deep learning, we can actually train. Neural networks to identify specific compounds in the soil and identify them. We've done it with soil columns. I've done some work with soil aggregates. [00:25:38] So we can look at very small things as well. I've looked at grape seeds, so we had a little study where working with some folks at Davis they pulled out grape seeds, before, during and after fermentation, functionally, and we looked at how the structures of the seeds were changing. [00:25:58] The idea here is that grapeseeds provide a lot of tannins and they're not necessarily like the best tannins for wine, but they do provide a lot of tannins. [00:26:07] People have always wondered like, why do grapeseeds kind of supply a constant amount of tannins during the fermentation process? And as it turns out, it's because the structure of the seeds is changing during fermentation, [00:26:18] They start cracking. And so the internal structures become more accessible during fermentation. [00:26:23] And so that's what we were seeing using x ray tomography is these internal changes that were happening inside of the grape seeds that could potentially promote tannin extraction. [00:26:32] Craig Macmillan: That is fascinating. That explains a lot. I'm just thinking through, Tannin management. The date currently is in the beginning of November 2024. So we're just wrapping up a harvest here in the Paso Robles, central coast area. And so I've been thinking a lot about tannin management last couple of months on behalf of my friends who make wine, not myself. That's not entirely true. Is there a practical application to that in terms of like timing or conditions or things that would contribute to the, the cracking breakdown of these seeds that you identified? [00:27:05] Devin Rippner: We weren't able to go like that in depth and it's some, it's an area that I would like to build on. But the idea is that. The fermentation is a pretty harsh environment. You have a massive change in pH. Microbes are working hard. You have the production of ethanol, which allows the extraction of different compounds. [00:27:24] The seeds are seemingly being modified during fermentation. There needs to be more work done in this area in terms of seed tanning management. We now have kind of a, the more physical. Explanation for why those cannons are coming out of the seeds. [00:27:39] If you are able to pull your seeds earlier from fermentation, I mean, that's like a ridiculous thing to say, but you know, [00:27:45] Craig Macmillan: no, I mean, winemakers are very clever there's a lot of techniques that have become more prominent, I think, in the last 10, 15 years in terms of things like pressing off early, so getting your extraction fast and then finishing out the fermentation off of skins, off of seeds, you know, that's one way that you can do it really using seed maturity as a major variable in your pick decision is another one that I've seen people really draw to. [00:28:09] I remember people crunching on seeds and going, yeah, that's mature. Now I'm seeing people reject a pick date based on that. [00:28:17] Like we were going to wait for these seeds to mature fully before we pull because of, because of these issues with a seed tannin. So just knowing that I think is fascinating. [00:28:28] And if we can put some time and pH things on that, that would be really cool. Are you going to be using this technology with the with the research plot for anything? [00:28:36] Devin Rippner: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we [00:28:39] already have started that. We've already started down that route. Shortly after planting we collected soil cores from, , the vine row. And then from where the, the planter tires were functionally running just to look at changes in bulk density. So like kind of how compressed the soil is and then trying to get at changes in porosity. [00:28:58] We looked at these cores relative to , a field next door. That has had very relatively little disturbance in the past, like 4 to 10 years. It's kind of variable but has had less disturbance than say, like, right after planting a vineyard mechanically. Some of the things we see are you know, when you mechanically plant a vineyard, the bulk density , in the vine row is much lower than where the tractor tires are running that intrinsically makes sense. [00:29:26] And they're kind of both different than a place that's been no till or low disturbance for four to 10 years. Some of the things that are most interesting, and, and again, this is preliminary, it's got to go through peer review. . But when we look at the CT scans, you can actually see where worms have been moving, [00:29:45] In these, like, low till and no till plots or this field that has just not really been disturbed. [00:29:51] , so worms are actually making sizable holes in the ground, and those holes contribute to the porosity in these, like, low disturbance soils compared to these very disturbed soils. And that was a really interesting thing to visually see. You can see the worm castings in the scan. [00:30:10] I don't know if you've ever seen worm castings before, but they kind of, they're these little, like, kind of football shaped Things that are all clumped together our soils don't really aggregate. [00:30:20] We don't have enough organic matter and we don't have enough clay. And so that's like driving force behind aggregation in our soil seemingly is worm castings. For me, that was just mind blowing. [00:30:31] I was not expecting to see that. I think I was expecting to see a lot of roots or like root channels and they're there, but the worms are like following these roots and root channels around. [00:30:41] I'm a very visual person. And so when I do CT stuff, it's like, Oh, wow. Like I can see it with my eyes. If I can't see it with my eyes, it's hard for me to believe. But when I see it with my eyes, , it's believable. [00:30:52] Craig Macmillan: We've done a number of interviews recently around so the microbiome and just soil biology kind of in general, , is that gonna be part of your analysis as some of these projects go forward? [00:31:03] Devin Rippner: Yeah, absolutely. So we've done something called phospholipid fatty acid analysis. [00:31:09] So that gives us an idea of kind of, The microbial consortium that's there right when we sample phospholipids don't really stick around in soils. They're quickly degraded. We would like to do some sequencing challenges. We don't have a microbiologist on the team. And, and so we would, we would have to pay for the sequencing. [00:31:28] And even then sequencing is really interesting because, you could be like, oh, we did say 16 S-R-R-N-A sequencing. And that's like, that's a particular like region or a particular type of sequencing that is, that only picks up on say bacteria. [00:31:47] Whereas if you want to see fungi, maybe you need to do something called ITS sequencing. And so unless you do like all of the sequencing, you can get an idea of what's happening to the bacterial communities or the fungal communities. But unless you do all of them, it's really hard to get a more holistic picture. [00:32:05] And then, a lot of the sequencing that we do or is done we're missing things. If the regions analyzed aren't big enough, like we can be blind to specific things that we know are there. And so things like my understanding is that fungal mycorrhizae can actually be hard to detect by sequencing. [00:32:21] And so even if you visually see them in the roots by staining, you may not pick them up by sequencing. It is a challenge. Now, I, you know, I think that certainly studying the microbiome and understanding its relationship , with vine performance and soil health is, is crucial and is really, you know, one of the things that it's kind of the Holy grail [00:32:41] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. [00:32:43] Devin Rippner: We're trying to get there. [00:32:44] Craig Macmillan: We're trying to get there. That is definitely the message, but it also, there's definitely the potential. I think that there's a lot of people working on this. I think we're going to get there. It's, genomics is so big. I've talked to people that are like, at some point we, we, we will probably be able to get down to species, so we will know the bad actors from the good actors, we'll get a sense of what the real ecology is. [00:33:05] That's a decade plus away still, but we're going there. Right? We're we're gonna figure it out. We're gonna figure it out at some point. We're gonna get there. [00:33:14] Devin Rippner: Yeah, I agree. And there's, there are some techniques. There's some really cool techniques. So Jennifer Petridge at Lawrence Livermore lab does a lot Carbon 13 labeling of root exudates. So she basically gives plants, she treats them with carbon 13, enriched CO2. And then she looks at how much of the carbon 13 is then incorporated into the DNA of microbes to try to get at how well associated they are with plants. [00:33:41] I think that work is just incredible. And there's some folks at Davis that are, are working that in that area as well. That's kind of the stuff that gets me really excited to seeing when people are trying to really tie it into what's feeding on root carbon, , who's getting these exudates, things like that. [00:33:59] , that to me is one of the, One of the ways that we'll be able to, like, get at these questions is to, to start differentiating, the bulk soil microbiome from like the, the real rhizosphere associated microbiome. [00:34:11] Craig Macmillan: so you got a lot going on. You got , you got a bunch of different things happening. What's the path ahead look like for you? [00:34:17] Devin Rippner: Sure. So, and with with the soil health vineyard. I mean, I'm very excited to keep that going. We'll do another large sampling event in 2027 or 2028. We'll start making wine from our grapes. Not next year, but the year after that. So we'll be excited to see how our different management strategies influence our wine. [00:34:40] The wines that come out of the vineyard, or the wines made, made from the grapes that come out of the vineyard. So those are some of the things , I'm most excited about with regard to the vineyard. [00:34:50] Otherwise, I have a lot of data that I need to process and get out. That's something that's next. [00:34:56] I, I'm collaborating with some folks from the University of Illinois in Berkeley lab to look at changes to the Moro plots in Illinois over time. So that's the oldest agricultural experiment in the United States. The plots there have been in experimental treatments for 149 years. [00:35:15] And the reason I'm involved is because vineyards can be very long lived things, right? I mean, there are vines in California 100 years old. [00:35:23] This is one of the few experiments to me that's like comparable to what we see in vineyards. And so I'm really curious about, you know, how do, how do management practices influence soil structure, microbiome, the metagenome, the metabolome, things like that, on these century long timelines. [00:35:43] That to me is like some of the really interesting questions. If you have a vineyard for, for a century, or if you want a vineyard for a century, what do you need to do? How do you make that work? Knowing that it's going to take 20 years to have your vineyard be profitable. [00:35:57] I mean, you're already on a different timescale than annual crops, right? yeah. And so it's just like, how, how do we make our, our vineyards as sustainable and long lived as possible? Because , that, that initial investment is huge. It is so much money. [00:36:13] Craig Macmillan: I think that's really great. I think coming up with findings on other crops, but with practices that could be transferable is really great. You know, we don't need to be in our little grape silo. All the time. And in fact some of the soil microbiome stuff have been with interviews with people that had no connection to vineyards whatsoever. And it was great. The things that they were learning, they were absolutely transferable to this crop as well. That hasn't gotten that kind of attention. Grapevines are tough little suckers, really from an evolutionary standpoint, they're pretty rugged and so we can kind of get away with a lot just because of that. [00:36:48] And now I think the margin for error is less and less, especially when we get into tougher and tougher sites like you're talking about and different conditions, especially if you've farmed it for a while and things have changed. Being able to look at other, other systems and see what's there. [00:37:03] What is one thing that you would tell growers around this topic of research? [00:37:09] Devin Rippner: vineyard is very informed by grower practices. We have a grower board that like helps us make decisions. A message that I will say is like science is science and science is often pretty, you know, Like straight laced and rigid because it must be. know, We're going to find things and those results hopefully will be interesting. [00:37:27] But it's not the be all and end all . of science and research. Growers continuing to try innovative things push the boundaries of what they think is possible is really how we get progress. And I am hopeful , once this vineyard is more established to start going back out and working with growers. [00:37:48] When I first started in Prosser, I sampled from probably 40 different vineyards around the state just to get an idea of what the soil properties were like. And we've done some, some experiments with that. Some of our results are that permanganate oxidize oxidizable carbon. So this POC C classically it's been called active carbon. [00:38:08] There's some new research that suggests that it's, that's maybe a misnomer and it's really, often plant derived carbon. [00:38:15] It seems like there are some effects from that, that suppress disease. And I think that , that's an area where growers can really kind of play around and see if there's , waste from their vineyard and applying it to their vines trying to look at what that does to their, POC C values and also try, just getting in trying to look at some of the past issues that those vines may have and see if there's any decreases. [00:38:41] A lot of observational science is really important. I like hearing from growers that, yeah, I did this thing and it looks like it made a difference. There's a lot of value in that and, and I don't discount like grower knowledge in any way, shape, or form. Like it is deep knowledge growers know things that I don't, and I find that out all the time. [00:39:02] I value those observations. They they give me guidance on how I want to do my work. And we do try to incorporate that stuff into the soil health vineyard. Over time we are going to have to figure out like, You know, can we sustain funding for a vineyard for, say, 50 years if all we're doing is like a cover crop, some compost, and then a mix? [00:39:23] That seems like it's maybe not the most sustainable thing. Science requires that type of stuff, but it's just not that sustainable. So finding ways to make use of our, border rows and stuff like that is going to be important. And a lot of the research that we do is going to be informed by grower observations. [00:39:39] Craig Macmillan: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Where can people find out more about you and your work? [00:39:44] Devin Rippner: Sure. So you can look me up online. Devin Rippner a lot of stuff will pop up. There's a USDA website that has a listing of my publications and things like that. I also have a personal website. So those are some places to, to check out my work. [00:40:00] I try to make sure that my stuff is open access and usable. So, like the deep learning code, the image segmentation code that I co developed for X ray ct work is now being applied to like other types of imaging on. So people are using it at hops and a variety of other things on. [00:40:18] So that code is online. Like you can find it it's associated with my papers. You can play around with it and try it with your own stuff. Mhm. And, and, and that's a big thing for me is like open data. I, I love sharing a lot of the, the data that I have and the code that I have so that people can, repeat what I did. [00:40:35] Look me up online and yeah, you'll be, you can find that, find those resources. [00:40:40] Craig Macmillan: we will have links to a lot of that on the show page. So please visit the show page and check this stuff out. I was really happy to hear you use the word repeatability. [00:40:49] Devin Rippner: Yeah, [00:40:50] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. And I also was really, it's hard. it's very, very hard and it's often overlooked. You know, the, , the scientific methods we know today was all built around the idea of repeatability. That's how you demonstrate whether something's real, real, or if it's only real under certain conditions, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that's really great. I'm glad you're doing that. [00:41:08] Well, I want to thank you for being on the podcast. This is a Devin Rippner. He is a research soil scientist with USDA agricultural research service and an adjunct position with the crop and soil science department at Washington state university. Really fun conversation, Devin, lots to think about. I will be following this closely. Or annually, probably [00:41:31] Devin Rippner: Cool. [00:41:31] Yeah. [00:41:32] Craig Macmillan: these things are slow. I'm not going to be checking every week. But I just think it's really cool project and is real inspiration. And I would love to see the same kind of thing replicated in other places. [00:41:41] Devin Rippner: Great. Thanks Craig. That was really fun. [00:41:43] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. [00:41:49] If you enjoyed this podcast, Vineyard Team has a couple of in field tailgate meetings coming up this year that you won't want to miss. [00:41:56] The first is on February 20th in Paso Robles, and it is a dry farming grower around table. Now you don't need to be a dry farmer to enjoy this event. There'll be a number of different growers here talking about their experiences, trials, challenges, and successes. [00:42:13] The second event is on March 12th, and it is Grazing as a Sustainable Practice for Vineyards, taking place in Los Olivos, and we hope to have some adorable sheep on site. [00:42:24] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Dev lots of research articles, plus, sustainable wine growing podcast episodes, 80. The Goldilocks principle and powdery mildew management, 90 nematode management for Washington grapes, plus a whole healthy soils playlist. [00:42:42] Now for the fine print, the views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speaker's own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of the USDA ARS. As such, the views, thoughts, and opinions. Presented by the speaker do not constitute an official endorsement or approval by the United States Department of Agriculture or the Agricultural Research Service of any product or service to the exclusion of others that may be suitable. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. [00:43:14] If you liked this show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing, and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast. And you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam. org. [00:43:28] Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard Team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

Many property management business owners out there struggle with having a bad brand, bad pricing, cheapo clients, a lack of confidence, and more. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down in-person with property manager and DoorGrow client, Kelly Rafuse, to talk about her journey with property management. You'll Learn [04:53] How to Be Picky with the Clients You Bring on [10:59] Overcoming the “Hustler” Mindset [15:04] Choosing an Effective Brand [21:07] Cheapos, Normals, and Premium Buyers Tweetables  ”As you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't.” “ The more confident you are, the more some of these… difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them.” “ It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom.” “ Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kelly: You know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:00:07] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:00:08] Kelly: Yes.  [00:00:10] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives. And you're interested in growing in business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:37] You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull, founder and CEO of DoorGrow, and Sarah Hull, the co owner and COO of DoorGrow. And now let's get into the show.  [00:01:13] So our guest today, we're hanging out with Kelly. Kelly, introduce yourself.  [00:01:17] Kelly: Hi there, my name is Kelly Rafuse with Crimson Cape Property Management in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.  [00:01:22] Jason: And you have a really nice logo. Where'd you get that really nice logo?  [00:01:25] Kelly: It's this little mastermind I joined called DoorGrow helped me with that.  [00:01:29] Jason: And it's, I was saying, I think it's cool because it's like you are flying right there. [00:01:33] It's like, it like reminds me of you.  [00:01:37] Kelly: Well, yeah. I had this Marvel Comics stud fetish, so.  [00:01:41] Jason: Yes. Okay. You're the Marvel comic gal. All right. So really excited to be hanging out. We're actually in Pennsylvania because this is kind of the neck of the woods Sarah grew up in and managed properties nearby and you manage properties in a neighboring market and so. [00:01:59] The same market. The same market. She, yeah. Exact same market.  [00:02:02] Sarah: I left and she has the market.  [00:02:05] Kelly: While you were here, I was just managing my own portfolio.  [00:02:08] Jason: Oh, okay.  [00:02:09] Kelly: And people were coming to me to manage theirs, and that's how I got into this mess.  [00:02:15] Jason: Yeah. Well, give us a little more background on you, Kelly. [00:02:18] How'd you get into property management?  [00:02:20] Kelly: Oh, well, I started off as a real estate investor. You know, buying homes out here in Northeast PA. It's a very good place to invest in property. Cash flow is, I mean, I think cap rates were like 12 percent when I got in. So, I mean, it was huge, and honestly, I was trying to replace my income because I'd gotten as far as I could go in my former career, you know, hit a huge glass ceiling, and realized that, you know, real estate was probably my ticket to freedom. [00:02:45] Jason: What was your former career?  [00:02:47] Kelly: I was on the radio.  [00:02:48] Jason: Yeah, okay, you've got a great voice for it, so.  [00:02:51] Thank you very much.  [00:02:53] Yeah, so you were doing the radio.  [00:02:54] Kelly: Yeah, so I actually got into this market, and I liked it here. I actually, I did my two years and then moved to a bigger market. I was in Hartford, Connecticut for a while. [00:03:03] And then an opportunity to come back presented itself. And I came back because I genuinely like the area. And you know, the inexpensive real estate was an attraction. And then My husband and I got into investing in properties. We built up quite a portfolio. We had 25 units of our own at one point. [00:03:20] We're down to 14 now. We sold a few off that, you know, really weren't moneymakers for us. But, you know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:03:33] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:03:34] Kelly: Yes. I made all the mistakes.  [00:03:37] Jason: Yeah. And that's sometimes learning through mistakes and pain. [00:03:41] I sometimes joke that DoorGrow was built on thousands of mistakes.  [00:03:45] Kelly: You're telling me. And I will introduce My biggest pain point in just a second here. So what caused me to join DoorGrow is my husband's a real estate broker. And so people were banging on his door. "Can you manage my property? Can you manage my property?" It's like, "well, I don't do that, but my wife does."  [00:04:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:04] Kelly: And I'm like, well, I can't manage their property. I don't have a real estate license. And so it was a whole year of, "come on! Just get the license. Just do it! Just do it. Come on!" So I got the license. And I took on one of his investor clients, and I joined DoorGrow, like all in the same day. [00:04:23] And what I found out when I joined DoorGrow was I never should have taken on that client.  [00:04:27] Jason: That was the price of tuition. It's one of the key lessons that defines you in business, which is you learn those lessons and not take on bad clients. Well, I mean, for us, it's been really inspiring and exciting to see your journey as an entrepreneur and see you kind of get all this ready and get things developed and start to grow. [00:04:46] And so, we were talking about it, like, what should we talk about on the podcast today with Kelly? And you had mentioned.  [00:04:53] Sarah: Yeah, I had said, I think for me, one of the biggest shifts that I've seen in Kelly again and again and again is shifts in mindset because it was just even a few weeks ago where maybe a month ago or something, was relatively recent, where you were saying like, "oh, I read this book and it changed my life I'm waking up at like 4:30 in the morning and structuring my day different" and it was just again and again. But you've had these little shifts that end up leading to these huge changes for you and how you run things and how you structure your day and like just even your, your energy levels seem to be more protected now. [00:05:32] Kelly: Yeah, I'm not getting up at 4:30 in the morning anymore. Although I just learned yesterday I might have to start again because my daughter wants to join the swim team. Oh. And they practice it. 5 a. m. sometimes, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a struggle because I'm not only a real estate entrepreneur. [00:05:48] I am also, you know, a wife of a whirlwind. I mean, my husband is a broker. He's into wholesaling. He's into flipping. And I go to manage him.  [00:05:58] Jason: The whirlwind broker.  [00:06:00] Kelly: Yeah, and,  [00:06:02] Jason: yeah.  [00:06:02] Kelly: No, we'll say no more about that.  [00:06:04] Sarah: There's a lot going on. [00:06:05] Lots of moving pieces.  [00:06:06] Kelly: He's a genius. He's like a Bill Gates level genius. [00:06:09] I'm just waiting for the ship to come in. Yeah, nice. It's been 30 years, but it's coming.  [00:06:13] Jason: So what do you feel like maybe was the first mindset thing that you noticed in Kelly, kind of overcoming? Or what do you feel like was your first?  [00:06:22] Sarah: I don't know if I can think of a first, but I know that there's been several that I'd like to highlight. [00:06:27] Jason: Okay.  [00:06:27] Sarah: So I think one of the things is being much more picky with what clients you take on and what properties you take on and how you kind of screen and vet people.  [00:06:41] Jason: Maybe that first client helped you learn that lesson.  [00:06:44] Sarah: Yes.  [00:06:45] Jason: Yeah. So what, what was the lesson there? Like, what did you figure out?  [00:06:48] Kelly: Oh, wow. You know, the, the first thing is I have to see if our philosophies match. [00:06:53] Jason: You and the client.  [00:06:54] Kelly: Yes. And when I got into real estate investing, I admit I'm a bit of an idealist. I know you're into personality types.  [00:07:01] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:01] Kelly: And I test as an INFP.  [00:07:03] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:03] Kelly: So I probably have no business being in any business at all, but yet here I am. But I'm a dreamer. I'm a visionary. And so my first company was, and still is called Good People, Good Homes, LLC. [00:07:15] And I own property in that LLC. I'm not really doing business in it. It just holds property for me. But when I started it, it was supposed to be the company and it was: you buy these distressed properties in these neighborhoods and you fix them up and you put great people in them and it brings up the whole neighborhood and then everybody loves you and we hold hands and sing Kumbaya and that didn't really happen. [00:07:36] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:36] Kelly: But I did improve a lot of properties.  [00:07:39] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:39] Kelly: Right. Yeah.  [00:07:41] Sarah: I think arguably in this market, you are outdoing anything that I've ever seen because the befores and afters are just wild. And the rent rates before and after are wild. And this area, yes, you can absolutely get a great deal, a great bargain on real estate, and that doesn't come without its challenges and its problems. [00:08:06] But one of the things that I think is just so great in this area that you do is you take these distressed properties and you make them beautiful and livable and safe. And you provide a wonderful home now on something before that was dilapidated.  [00:08:25] Kelly: And the market's full of C class properties. You know, I hear a lot of property managers say, "Why are you even bothering with those?" [00:08:31] Well, honestly, there isn't anything else. Yeah, that's what we hear. You work with what you got. And I probably wouldn't be a real estate investor if the market wasn't like this. Because that's how I got in. I didn't make a ton of money in radio. I didn't. But I made enough to get in, you know, with a C class property. [00:08:48] And now those C class properties are paying for my life, and my daughter's life, and it's beautiful. The property management company? That's just icing on the cake, but I think it might even eclipse what I've been able to do with my rentals.  [00:09:00] Jason: Oh, I'm sure.  [00:09:01] Kelly: And there's a need for it.  [00:09:02] Jason: Yeah. Big need.  [00:09:04] Kelly: Yeah. So the biggest thing I learned, back to your question about how to vet clients, does their philosophy match mine? Do they believe their C class property could be turned into a desirable place to live? And yes, you will be charging market rent for that, which is a lot more than maybe you thought you could charge. And you'll get a better class tenant that way. Or are they just happy not doing anything to the property, just letting it be what it is and getting whoever they can get into it and, you know, getting whatever money they can for it. I don't really want to work with those people.  [00:09:38] Jason: Do you find part of this though is just selling? [00:09:41] It's like convincing them to align with your vision? Because it sounds like you have a better vision than a lot of the people that might come to you.  [00:09:48] Kelly: Sometimes when I show them the spreadsheet, of, you know, what I've done for some of my other clients, including the first one that I told you about. I mean, I really turned some of his properties around. [00:09:59] And I've tried to fire him twice. Yeah.  [00:10:01] He won't go and, you know, he's also a third of my income, so I'm going to keep him on. And, but the thing is, he's kind of listening to me now. Kind of.  [00:10:11] Sarah: He's open. Well, I think. It's like a walnut shell. We've just cracked it open. Maybe some of the good ideas are seeping through. [00:10:18] Jason: I've talked about this before, but I think also part of it is, as we've seen, you come into your own in more confidence in what you're doing and the more confident you are, the more some of these A personality types or these difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them. [00:10:36] And I talk about metaphorically punching people in the face sometimes. So you probably maybe punched them in the face metaphorically a couple of times since then. And so setting those healthier boundaries. Is something we naturally do when we start to believe in ourselves more. And so what other shifts do you feel like you've noticed in Kelly? [00:10:55] Or what are some of the things that DoorGrow's helped you with? Are you making changes too?  [00:10:59] Kelly: Well, like Sarah said, a lot of the mindset stuff, I mean, a big revelation came to me when I was at DoorGrow live.  [00:11:05] Jason: Yeah, what was that?  [00:11:07] Kelly: Well, first of all, getting to DoorGrow Live was a challenge because I was in the midst of my survival mode. [00:11:13] I'm a solopreneur still. I do everything myself. My husband's my broker of record, but, like, he's off doing his thing. Sure. So.  [00:11:21] Jason: You were doing everything, you're really busy, and you're like, how do I take a break to even just go to DoorGrow Live?  [00:11:26] Kelly: Yeah, and, you know, then I've got this mindset that, you know, how can I afford it? [00:11:30] But the thing is, I did have the money to go. That's another thing. I've got a poverty mindset I need to get past. And when I went to DoorGrow Live, that was really thrown in my face. Because I was talking about the challenges of being a solopreneur. And one of the pieces of advice that I was given by one of the speakers is, "What's your time worth?" [00:11:49] You know, you can't be doing all of these things when you pay somebody. Yeah, and I thought, well, what's my time worth? And then this little voice in the back of my head said, well, not a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:00] Jason: You told everybody that. You said, "not a whole heck of a lot."  [00:12:04] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:04] Jason: And we're like, "oh, okay."  [00:12:06] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:07] Jason: Yeah. [00:12:07] Kelly: Well, I mean, that comes from, you know, my background. I grew up without a lot.  [00:12:11] Jason: Yeah. You know,  [00:12:12] Kelly: I saw my parents struggle. They're working class people. You know, I got into an industry that was on its, you know, downslide when I, I started on the radio in you know, the early nineties, you know, probably right after it started to slide down and, you know, there've been multiple layoffs and, you know, voice tracking and automation and, you know, I survived, but I think one of the reasons I survived was I was willing to work really hard for not a whole lot of compensation. [00:12:40] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:40] Kelly: You know, as people were let go and reductions in force, I was given more duties, but not more money.  [00:12:47] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:48] Kelly: And, you know, you do that long enough, you start getting the message that, oh, well, your time really isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:54] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:55] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:56] Jason: Who decides what your time's worth?  [00:12:57] Kelly: I do.  [00:12:58] Jason: Yeah. I do. [00:12:59] Yes.  [00:12:59] Kelly: I do.  [00:13:00] Yeah!  [00:13:01] And, you know, that's... [00:13:02] you do now. Yes.  [00:13:03] Jason: How has that shifted for you then? What's your perception of your time and the value of it? of your time now?  [00:13:09] Kelly: My perception of my time is, you know, first of all, I don't need to be tied to the Henry Ford 40 hour work week or even the 50-60-70-80 hour work week that I hear people say you "should" do when you're running a business because, you know, it's impractical. [00:13:24] I have a daughter. She's a teenager. She's just started high school this year. She's a field hockey athlete and now she wants to be on the swim team and she's got needs. Mhm. Right? I've got a husband who does not have a cushy job I can fall back on while I do my entrepreneurial thing.  [00:13:40] Jason: Right. Right. [00:13:41] Kelly: He's also an entrepreneur. [00:13:43] We are living off self employment income. So it is a constant, you know, point of stress. So, you know, I need to find out my key productivity time, and that's when I work. And sometimes I get four or five hours a day, and that's it, of key productivity time. But then I find myself, you know, when I'm walking the dog, having all these great ideas. [00:14:06] You know, I do things like I listen to your podcast you know, some great audio books that have been recommended to me. I devoured The One Thing by Gary Keller, the Profit First book. And I'm starting to implement these ideas. And it's just sort of like they're ladder steps.  [00:14:23] Jason: So basically, little by little, you've been investing in yourself by leveraging reading, getting coaching, doing this stuff. [00:14:31] And that's translated into you valuing yourself a little bit more.  [00:14:35] Yeah.  [00:14:35] Awesome.  [00:14:36] Kelly: Absolutely. And I've learned to turn things over, like maintenance, you know, I hired one of the vendors that you recommended, Vendoroo and they're, you know, the tenants still text me with maintenance issues. [00:14:47] Sure. And I text back, "put it in the portal." Right. "If you can't put it in the portal, call this number and they'll teach you how to put it in the portal."  [00:14:55] Jason: But yeah, probably less willing to take phone calls than you were before.  [00:14:58] Kelly: Yeah, I've never really taken phone calls.  [00:15:00] Jason: That's good, that's good. [00:15:02] Kelly: Thanks me. Get it all in writing.  [00:15:04] Jason: So you went through our whole rapid revamp process as well, like with the branding and like getting everything kind of dialed in, pricing. You've implemented a lot of things. And so, has that impacted your confidence level as well?  [00:15:20] Kelly: Oh, absolutely. I really feel like, you know, I'm marketing a real brand now with Crimson Cape. [00:15:25] Jason: Yeah. What, what was it before that?  [00:15:26] Kelly: GPGH Management Company.  [00:15:29] Jason: Oh, the acronym.  [00:15:30] Kelly: Yep. Good People, Good Homes.  [00:15:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:15:32] Kelly: You know, just to take off of that and, you know, everything was GPGH. My husband was GPGH Realty.  [00:15:38] Jason: It sounds like some sort of drug or something. What do you take in GPGH? [00:15:42] Kelly: Well, it's the right market. [00:15:44] Jason: Okay. Well, then there's that GLP 1 joke too that you could put in there. GLP 1. Yeah. But my husband actually reprinted his real estate company because of, you know, he was inspired by what I did.  [00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's his brand?  [00:15:56] Kelly: He's Gorilla Real Estate. That's the little stuffed gorilla you saw on the way in. [00:16:00] Jason: Okay, yeah. Yeah, and they're different, which is nice. They're not like, you know, kind of mixed together.  [00:16:06] Kelly: Right, right. And I don't want, you know, people to really associate us together, even though we do share an office.  [00:16:11] Jason: Yeah.  [00:16:12] For now.  [00:16:13] So you've gone through the branding, your pricing is different than anyone else in the market. [00:16:19] Kelly: Yeah. It's higher than anyone else in the market too. And that keeps a lot of the riffraff away.  [00:16:24] Jason: Yeah. It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom. For sure. Yeah. Especially in a difficult or lower end market. Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. What other changes?  [00:16:36] Sarah: I think, well, how many, we've gone through the rapid revamp a couple of times, so she's done the mindset piece a few times, and I think every time you go through it, you kind of get, like, an extra layer out of it, like almost like the next, like we're stacking like, levels and levels and levels of different like mindset tips and tricks, and then the perception piece, which once we're done with the little pieces on the website, we can get that launched for you. [00:17:04] I think that will make a huge difference. And recently. I mean, for the whole entirety of the time that you were in our program, you had always said "there is no way I can add more units. There is no way I can do more work. There is no way I can even focus on growth." And you are now adding new doors. [00:17:24] Kelly: Yep, I added three last week. I added another two Sunday night from a current client. I didn't know she had another double block. You know how I got those doors? She called me from you know, her poor husband is at the Cleveland Clinic. So she called me from Cleveland and she's like "I got a no heat call from this one building that you're not managing And I can't deal with it. Can you please take these units?"  [00:17:47] Jason: Nice.  [00:17:48] Kelly: So I just got two more doors.  [00:17:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:17:50] Kelly: And I'm hopefully closing on another five by the end of the week.  [00:17:53] Yes! [00:17:55] Jason: So doors are just starting to flow and you're able to dedicate time now towards growth which before you're kind of  [00:18:01] Kelly: yeah  [00:18:01] Jason: Chicken with head cut off running around and dealing with stuff. [00:18:04] Kelly: It's going to get a little iffy again now that I've added these doors, you know, okay. Now I have to onboard all these tenants. And there's a couple that come with the vacant units that they want me to rent in January?  [00:18:16] Jason: Yeah.  [00:18:17] Sarah: The best time of year here.  [00:18:21] Jason: Right. Lots of activity.  [00:18:23] Sarah: Speaking of vacant units, You have none now in the portfolio that you're Managing? [00:18:28] My current portfolio, I filled them all.  [00:18:31] Yeah, and how many did you have? Because I feel like all throughout the year I was getting updates and it was like 20 something and down a little bit, down a little bit, and now you're at zero.  [00:18:41] Kelly: Yeah, I filled I think 17 units over the course of the last year. [00:18:45] Amazing.  [00:18:46] 10 of them were filled between September and now.  [00:18:50] Jason: Nice. Wow.  [00:18:50] Kelly: And I've got a few that are coming up. I've got, you know, two of my tenants are moving into senior housing. So, you know, that means I'm probably going to have to redo their apartments because they've been living there since like 1965 or whatever. [00:19:04] I'm sure they're going to need to be some updates.  [00:19:07] Jason: So in getting this business started, if you hadn't heard about DoorGrow, or say, DoorGrow didn't exist. Where would you be you think right now?  [00:19:15] Kelly: Oh my gosh.  [00:19:16] Jason: What'd be going on?  [00:19:17] Kelly: I'm not sure I'd still be doing it.  [00:19:19] Jason: You think you would have quit?  [00:19:20] Kelly: With this client that I took on from the beginning, if I didn't know any better, I would think this is what property management is. [00:19:27] Jason: And you'd be like, yeah, right, so talking with us saying you should probably fire this client was probably enough to go, "okay, this may not be everybody."  [00:19:35] Kelly: Right. [00:19:36] Jason: Okay. [00:19:36] Kelly: Right, right. And you know, and you also helped me work with this client. So he's still my client, and he could be a very good client now that his buildings are cash flowing. But that remains to be seen because I got a little pushback on a repair last night that I wasn't real happy with, but we'll see. [00:19:53] Jason: You're going to set some strong boundaries with this guy.  [00:19:56] Kelly: I might have to punch him in the face a third time.  [00:19:58] Jason: Metaphorically. Right, right. Metaphorically, we're not advocating violence. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well anything else that we should chat about or cover? I mean, it's really been, like I said at the beginning, it's been inspiring and exciting to see you grow. [00:20:13] We're really excited to see where you take this and we've seen just it and that's why we do what we do. It's great to see clients just grow like you've come so far. Your whole energy is just different. Just how you are from when we saw you at DoorGrow live and you're like, well, what's your time worth? [00:20:29] And you're, you've spouted off, "well, not very much," you know, or whatever you've come a long way. And I'm really excited to see where you go with this because this could be a really great residual income business. I think absolutely it will overshadow what you're making off your rental properties, but then it also feed you some more real estate deals in the future. [00:20:47] For sure as you, as you work this. And so, yeah, I think it'll be interesting. And how does the, the king of Gorilla Real Estate feel about everything that you're doing?  [00:20:56] Kelly: Oh, he's incredibly supportive. Yeah. I think he misses when I used to just, you know, clean up his bookkeeping for him. We now have to hire someone to do that. [00:21:05] Jason: Mm-hmm. Yes. Those wealthy problems. Yeah.  [00:21:07] Kelly: And yeah, and that's another mindset thing I need to get over. And you cover this in the rapid revamp when you're talking about, you know, the three types of clients you got, your, your normals, which you're, you're aiming for.  [00:21:18] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:18] Kelly: But then you've got, you know, your cheapos and your premiums. [00:21:21] Sure.  [00:21:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:21] Kelly: And and, and one of the things you talked about, the cheapos is. Are you a cheapo?  [00:21:27] Jason: Oh. Yeah.  [00:21:27] Kelly: And I realize that, yeah, I kind of am a cheapo.  [00:21:30] Jason: You get what you attract. Huh. And so, yeah, we're blind, we have a blind spot towards which category we are showing up as, and so stretching yourself to not be a cheapo. [00:21:41] Kelly: I grew up with nothing. You know, I grew up with nothing, so, yeah, that's why I'm a cheapo.  [00:21:47] Sarah: Yeah. And I get it, because I too was in that mindset, especially when I lived here.  [00:21:52] This area is in that mindset. [00:21:54] Yes, the whole area is very, and when you find someone who kind of breaks through that bubble, It's odd here, right? [00:22:03] And it's different. And it's weird. And it's like, what are they doing? What is this all about? This is just weird. Like, why are you not, you know, normal like us? And when that was something that I had struggled with for a very, very long time, too, because back when I had lived here, I thought, "okay, well, I want to make more money. And like, I need to make more money. And the only way I can do that is I can either work more hours and maybe get some overtime or maybe I can find a job that's going to pay me more and or ask for a raise, or and this is my go to strategy, was let's just work two jobs, three jobs, four jobs." I was working four jobs at a time. [00:22:44] I was working seven days a week and I did that for years and years and years just because, well, this job I maxed out on and I can't get any more money out of here, but I need more money, so, oh, let me just add on another job. Yeah, so I understand that completely and it was just, it was with time that that started to just crack and shift a little bit. [00:23:02] Jason: Kind of the trap of time for dollars. As if that's the only way.  [00:23:07] Sarah: Absolutely. Absolutely.  [00:23:09] Jason: So yeah, so being exposed just to other people that are not of that mindset probably is cracks that glass ceiling you spoke of a little bit before maybe.  [00:23:19] Kelly: Right. Yeah. And what I'm noticing is that I'm attracting people, local people, that have a similar mindset and they exist. [00:23:28] You know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs in this area. Chris Jones started Pepper Jam, and he decided to keep his company here.  [00:23:34] Sarah: Oh, wow.  [00:23:34] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a few. Tech company, you might have heard of them. But yeah, there's, there's a few.  [00:23:39] Jason: So, you are no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:42] Kelly: No. I, well, I'm working on it. [00:23:45] I'm working on it. I catch myself.  [00:23:46] Jason: You say... [00:23:47] Kelly: I am no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:49] Jason: I am more normal.  [00:23:51] Kelly: I am more normal.  [00:23:52] Jason: Graduating towards premium.  [00:23:53] Kelly: And I'm graduating towards premium.  [00:23:55] Jason: It's good to be premium. We get to decide this, right? We get to decide this. [00:24:00] And so as you stretch yourself into more premium experience and recognizing, like, money is not the painful thing to be focused on, there's, and there's better things to be focused on that are more valuable and more important, like your time. And as you put a greater and greater premium on your time, you shift out of that currency of cash being the, you know, the God of your life controlling you and then you can start to be grateful. [00:24:26] And I think one of the key things for everybody listening is when we start to celebrate all of the things that we used to complain about related to money, I think this is how we shift out of that poverty mindset is, oh, we got to pay this bill. Thank you God that I have lights and power that I'm able to afford to do this. [00:24:44] Or thank you that I'm able to do this. And when we start to be grateful instead of projecting pain every time we see or hear money, And we start to project gratitude, then we start to attract more money. Like we start to be open to that. And as we shift into normal, yeah, we attract more normals. As we shift into premium, we attract more premium clients. [00:25:05] And they recognize you. It's like, there's a knowing between you and them, like, yeah, this is how it works. You come to us and we take care of everything and we take care of you and you get a premium service and product and they're like, "yeah, that's what I want." because premium buyers, when they see people that are cheapos. [00:25:20] They can like kind of smell it on you, right? So then they're like, "I don't want to work with this person. They're not going to take care of my property the way that I would want or do things or take care of me the way that I want." And so investing in ourselves. Sometimes for me, one of my coaches said, "go get a massage, you know, go do things to invest or take care of yourself to where you feel like..." you know, anything where we say, I think the poverty mindset is we hear this voice that says, " I don't need that nicer car. You don't need to go get a massage. Why do you need that?" Normal and premium is about shifting beyond need, right? Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival, and so, and then what happens is we have to create drama or problems in our life in order to justify taking time off, so we have to get sick, or we have to justify it. [00:26:09] Doing something and so when we shift out of that then we shift into a healthier state where we can decide I am going to take a vacation or I am going to take time off. I'm going to go to DoorGrow live. You should all go to DoorGrow live, so.  [00:26:20] Sarah: I highly recommend coming up in May!  [00:26:23] Jason: It's coming up in May. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. So, all right anything else we should touch on?  [00:26:28] Sarah: One thing and I don't know if I've ever said this on the coach a call where you've been on but for me, it was actually Roya Mattis. She, at the time, was in Mary Kay like, and I was in cosmetic sales for Mary Kay, and It was very early in my Mary Kay career and I was kind of learning how to be entrepreneur ish, right? [00:26:53] Like, "Oh, I can write these things off and I can do things differently" and, "Oh, this is an expense, but it's a good expense." And it was a lot of new things for me. And one of the things that she had said is and I'll never forget because it just stuck with me and I went, "Oh, okay." Yeah, I need to stop thinking like that right now. [00:27:11] Is " come tax time, there are people who can't wait for tax time because they're waiting. They're depending on that refund and they're like, 'Oh, thank God I get this refund.' Right?" [00:27:21] A lot of rent gets caught up in it. [00:27:23] It sure does. Yeah. Funny. All of a sudden they have money. So. Once you start really making money, though, you don't get refunds anymore. [00:27:33] What ends up happening is you pay money. And not only do you pay money into it, but you now are, like, quarterly paying money. But you don't have to do that if you're, like, barely scraping by, if you're not making money. So, what she said to me is, " when you're, like, rich and you're making money You're excited to pay this money because you're making so much money that now, not only are not going to get a refund, but you don't, you don't worry about the refund, you're making money and now you're paying the taxes and you are going to hit a point where you want to be paying taxes more often than just once a year because that means you've reached a certain level and now you're making a certain amount of money and your goal at that point is then going to be, 'well, how can I increase this?'" [00:28:24] And that for me, it just stuck in my head forever. And I went, "Oh. Oh, geez. I didn't even realize that." And at that time I was, I was. Like, "well, I'm going to get a couple thousand dollars back, like on my tax refund." I haven't gotten a refund in years. And it's true though. It's just a different way of thinking about things. [00:28:40] It's like, well, you know, if you make this tiny little bit of money and then I can get, you know, a couple thousand dollars back at the end of the year, or I can make a whole lot more money. And then, yes, I have to make some quarterly tax payments. Man, I'd rather make a lot more money and I'll just give the government some of it. [00:28:54] And then what you have to do is just figure out how can we reduce that as much as possible.  [00:28:59] Jason: I would love to see taxes just be reduced dramatically. So, we'll see.  [00:29:04] Kelly: But, who knows what they're going to do.  [00:29:05] Jason: I don't get super excited about paying taxes, but I do get excited. I would rather, like, see more income on my tax return. [00:29:13] You know taxes every time so.  [00:29:14] Sarah: Would you rather make the big amount of money so that you have to pay the taxes in or would you make a really small amount of money so that you get a refund?  [00:29:22] Kelly: Yeah, just a really good accountant that can help you zig when the government zags  [00:29:26] Sarah: So that that was something that she said to me and I went oh, okay, that is a very different way of thinking about it. [00:29:33] And it just, just stuck with me.  [00:29:35] Jason: Yeah. Always looking through the lens of 'why is this positive?' it's a healthy mindset for sure. Yeah. Why are taxes positive? All right. Everybody listening is like, "they're not."  [00:29:45] Sarah: I know. Right. Cool. My brother wants a shout out. So shout out to Jason.  [00:29:50] Jason: What's up, Jason? [00:29:51] Sarah: He's like, "you never shout me out!" Here, here you are. The three of us are waving to you now. So, what's up, Jason?  [00:29:58] Jason: No, he's got the same name as me. Everybody's like, what's that all about?  [00:30:01] He's dating a Sarah.  [00:30:03] Kelly: Oh!  [00:30:04] Jason: Which is funny. And you have a stepsister, that's Sarah, so he's got two, three Sarahs in his life right now. [00:30:13] Three Sarahs, two Jasons, and a partridge in a pear tree. All right. Cool. Well, Kelly, it's been great coming to hang out in your office and to meet you in person like here in Pennsylvania. Thanks for hosting the DoorGrow show and having us hang out with you and we're excited to see where you go and how you progress in the program and all the things you're going to do as you add doors. [00:30:36] And I think the future is really bright for Crimson Property Management, Crimson Cape. Hey, I missed the Cape. It's like superhero stuff here. Yes. I am. I love it. All right. And that's it. So if you are tuning in, make sure to check us out at DoorGrow. com. And if you are wanting to grow your property management business, or you are getting burnt out on it, or you are one of the many sucky property management companies that exist, you don't have to be. [00:31:04] It could be good. It could be better. Then reach out to us. We would love to help you scale and grow your business. We help people from startup all the way to breaking the thousand door barrier. Whatever your goal is reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow. com. Bye everyone.  [00:31:18] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:45] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Gobernadores manifiestan su apoyo a SheinbaumPiden a habitantes de Cumbres del Rubí en Tijuana evacuar la zona por incendioTienes hasta el 25 de enero para llevar tu árbol de Navidad a un centro de acopio en la MHMás información en nuestro Podcast

On the first MHM episode of 2025, Iggy returns from a long break to celebrate a new year and honor the blessings of the last. Iggy discusses setting goals in a balanced and obtainable fashion on this episode and shares some personal goals he wishes to gain this year. Happy new year and enjoy the new episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join hosts Dimity McDowell and Sarah Wassner Flynn as they reflect on the Many Happy Miles program, its vibrant community, and the inspiring stories of members who've become better runners and people through their participation. Dimity shares the origins of Many Happy Miles and how it has grown over the past six years. Then, hear from current Many Happy Miles members about how the program has positively impacted their lives, including: Jenna Molster & Ellen Harr, two best running friends who met through Many Happy Miles; Kate Barbier, who shares how the strength training baked into Many Happy Miles has complemented her running; and, Amy Davis, who reconnected with running (and even got a PR!) after a challenging four-year break, thanks to the support of Many Happy Miles. Throughout the episode, hear from other MHM members who share their highlights from the year. Feeling inspired to join Many Happy Miles in 2025? Registration is still open—don't miss out on the chance to be part of this supportive community! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Worm lizards are strange legless animals that live underground. Turns out they communicate by smell and are able to pass on surprisingly complex messages. There's also a brand new species of these subterranean lizards. Become a Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/herphighlights Merch: https://www.redbubble.com/people/herphighlights/shop Full reference list available here: http://www.herphighlights.podbean.com Main Paper Reference: Martín J, Navarro-Castilla Á, De La Concha A, Cuervo JJ, Barja I, López P. 2024. Heat-altered scent marks of males of a fossorial reptile still allow recognition by females but lose information on male quality. Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology 78:77. DOI: 10.1007/s00265-024-03496-x. Species of the Bi-Week: Ribeiro S, Santos Jr AP, Martins IG, Oliveira ECS, Graboski R, Barbosa Da Silveira T, Benício MHM, Vaz-Silva W. 2024. A new four-pored Amphisbaena Linnaeus, 1758 (Amphisbaenia, Amphisbaenidae) from the north of Espinhaço Mountain Range, Brazil. ZooKeys 1213:1–27. DOI: 10.3897/zookeys.1213.122265. Other Mentioned Papers/Studies: Martín, J., Rodríguez-Ruiz, G., Navarro-Castilla, Á., Barja, I., & López, P. (2024). Blind date: female fossorial amphisbaenians prefer scent marks of large and healthy males. Integrative Zoology. Editing and Music: Intro/outro – Treehouse by Ed Nelson Species Bi-week theme – Michael Timothy Other Music – The Passion HiFi, https://www.thepassionhifi.com Intro visuals – Paul Snelling

Today's guest wants to live forever. He's a longevity expert, biohacker, podcaster, and he's into rejuvenating the body both physically and mentally. Chris Burres, welcome to the Better Call Daddy show. Chris shares his fascinating journey into the world of longevity, biohacking, and the science behind living a longer, healthier life. From creating care packages for Joe Rogan to discussing the most significant scientific hindrances to extended life, Chris dives deep into the realm of health and wellness. He talks about the importance of stem cells, the groundbreaking research on ESS 60, and the potential for humans to live much longer than we currently do. Chris also opens up about his personal experiences, including his SEO podcast, the launch of his new podcast "Live Beyond the Norms," and his book "Live Longer and Better." He discusses the importance of diet, sleep, exercise, and medical screenings, sharing insights from his interviews with top experts in the field of longevity. This episode is a treasure trove of information for anyone interested in living a healthier, longer life. Whether you're a biohacker, a health enthusiast, or just curious about the future of longevity, Chris Burres provides valuable insights and practical advice. (00:00) Reena Friedman Watts welcomes Wayne Friedman to the better call daddy show (01:55) There's a company called ways to that do stem cell research (03:40) ESS 60 molecule responsible for longest longevity experimental result on mammals (05:22) Peter H. Diamandis recently wrote a book with Tony Robbins called Life Force (06:01) Where our stem cells come from shrinks with age, right (12:00) What did you learn from doing the SEO podcast and putting yourself out there (13:13) Ess 60 is the molecule responsible for single longest longevity experimental result on mammals (16:14) Medical community is getting better at extending our lives faster than we're aging (21:37) So I would say I should know because then whatever the things that need to be done (22:15) Living a healthy lifestyle is the number one thing you can do to avoid ALS (24:22) One of the things I really like about intermittent fasting is it works for any diet (30:01) You have lots of conversations with your kids about success, parenting (35:21) My son plays soccer. I played for 25 years, got to semi professional (40:16) A parent confronts his child about sleeping on a fluffy carpet. And he's like, I don't think CPS would like that (41:31) Did you ever give your parents pushback? Yes. What comes up there? Yeah, I did. In high school, I used to go (46:41) You want to talk about craziness with your subconscious. Like, how do they do that across a crowded dance floor bar (47:11) Patrick's mission is to get his SRTT training to as many people as possible (48:37) How long do you intend on living and how long can humans live (53:21) You could ask your dad what would he have done different raising you (56:29) Where has your dad found the most happiness? Mhm. I haven't really asked him that 01:02:30 ">The podcast is called Live beyond the Norms. So it's live beyond the norms (01:04:57) You've interviewed some of the biggest names in longevity and biohacking (01:05:55) Chris Burres says he wants to live forever but wants to be healthy Connect with Chris Burres: - Website: myvitalc.com If you liked this episode check out my episode with Paul Hutchinson from Sound of Freedom https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-call-daddy/id1525296416?i=1000642047299   Connect with Reena: - Website: bettercalldaddy.com - LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/reenafriedmanwatts - Twitter: @reenareena - Instagram: @reenafriedmanwatts - Instagram Podcast: @bettercalldaddypodcast We love hearing your feedback. Leave us a review, share your thoughts, and spread the word about this enriching episode. Share it with someone who appreciates the wisdom of longevity and the importance of living a healthier life. Show notes created by https://headliner.app  

JLP Thu 8-15-24 Bible Thumper Thursday! Hr 1 Kamala lying, evil human nature! 1 Corinthians 7: 32-35, never try to please your wife! Calls: JADEN is Mormon, great call! JASON on BQ. Super… // Hr 2 Supers… "Just my imagination…" Calls: NOAH: African Muslim! JARRON: Forgave! Was difficult! ANNA: Mothers and church. ARI: Olive Israelite. // Hr 3 Jesus given vinegar. SHAE: Wars, Israel. JUSTIN cheated. BRANDI: BQ. SERGIO: prison. Evil black preacher for immigration; migrant R—... // Biblical Question: Why do you think about other people? TIMESTAMPS (0:00:00) HOUR 1 (0:03:08) If you're dumping your kids in Hell… Bible Thumper Thursday! (0:07:53) Human beings are evil! Kamala Harris trying to deceive voters! (0:17:04) Males concerned about marriage forget about God! (0:23:00) 1 Corinthians 7: 32-35, trying to please your wife, husband (0:28:33) JLP sings, Such a sad way to live. You're being controlled. BREAK (0:32:03) Women's Forum! Punchie.TV (0:34:18) JADEN, CA: tried to save trans friend; "My Lord and my God" (0:48:13) JASON, Buffalo, BQ: Human nature, compare self to others (0:52:30) Super: Lin Yen Chin on race, species, ethni (0:55:00) NEWS… HOUR 2 (1:03:08) Bible Thumper Thursday (1:03:56) Hake's shirt, Joel's birthday: He was late (1:15:18) Supers: BQ, Morgan Freeman, we sing "Just my imagination" (1:24:33) NOAH, WA, African Muslim, sorry! Israel, Jews, Allahu Akbar (1:33:23) JARRON, MO, 1st: Forgave father, mother… hard! (1:38:27) ANNA, Canada, mothers destroy their children, and take them to church (1:43:58) ARI, Canada, BQ, olive Israelite (1:47:38) ARI: Do you love the Jews? The whites? God? Enemies? Seen God? (1:52:03) SHAE, AR, HOLD (1:54:00) NEWS… HOUR 3 (2:03:03) Jesus given vinegar: Cruel or merciful? Bitterness of humanity (2:08:28) SHAE: Wars for money. Blessing Israel? Working on yourself? (2:13:18) JUSTIN, NY, 1st: How to help my girlfriend? Cheated. Dump her. (2:16:48) JUSTIN: Don't try to be right for her, don't want to be married! (2:18:20) BRANDI, HI, BQ: Think of people who traumatize me. Surgery. (2:23:48) SERGIO, Los Angeles: God in present, worked in prison, loved it! (2:28:47) Supers: DLive, Joel, Israelites, Samaritans… BREAK (2:32:58) Evil is real. Mothers, children. Homeless… (2:37:18) Bishop James Dixon promotes nonwhite immigration "democracy" (2:39:08) NYC alleged migrant r— from Nicaragua (2:43:17) Supers: Israel, Jesus vinegar (2:45:19) GILBERT, TX, MHM, BQ (2:47:00) SHANT, CA, 1st: Thoughts busy at night; Dealing with evil in others; Call tomorrow! (2:53:18) Closing: Stay in your hell, you're possessed!

In this milestone 100th episode of the Surf Mastery Podcast, host Michael Frampton welcomes back the stylish surfer Devon Howard. Broadcasting from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara, Devon shares his insights on the elusive concept of style in surfing. The episode delves into the historical evolution of style, its significance in competitive surfing, and the subjective nature of defining style.Devon emphasizes the importance of making difficult maneuvers look effortless and how personal demeanor often mirrors one's surfing style. He contrasts the stylistic approaches of surfers like Joel Parkinson and Kelly Slater with the more explosive style of Adriano de Souza. Listeners are encouraged to focus on form over presentation, maintain a relaxed and efficient approach, and view style as a natural extension of personal expression.Episode Highlights:Introduction to Devon Howard: Recap of Devon's previous appearances on episodes 41, 77, and 86.Importance of Style in Surfing: Exploring the subjective nature of style and its impact on surfing performance and aesthetics.Origins of the Word 'Style': Michael provides a brief etymology of the word 'style' and its various meanings throughout history.Cultural Influence on Style: How different surf cultures and eras emphasize or de-emphasize style.Effortless Style: The concept of making difficult maneuvers look easy and the importance of being relaxed and calm.Influence of Personality on Style: How a surfer's personality often reflects in their surfing style.Contrived vs. Natural Style: The difference between genuinely stylish surfing and trying too hard to look stylish.Technical Aspects of Style: Tips for improving style through form, patience, and not rushing maneuvers.Style in Tube Riding: The inherent style in good tube riding and how it relates to other surfing maneuvers.Practical Advice: Devon's practical advice for surfers aiming to improve their style.Key Quotes:Devon Howard: “Style is oftentimes making the difficult look easy.”Michael Frampton: “You can be quick without being rushed.”Devon Howard: “Don't try to contrive it. Don't rush your surfing.”Follow Devon Howard Check out Devon's surfing and updates on his Instagram.Devon_howardLinkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/devon-howard-a4b2a613/.Connect with Surf Mastery:Surf Mastery Website: Download the free PDF with the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast at surfmastery.com. Instagram: Surf MasteryFull Show Transcript:Devon Howard: When I. When I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps. There's the people that get it and and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and this is episode 100 of the podcast. A little bit of a milestone. Special guest for this episode. And we've also revamped the website Surf Mastery. Com and on the front page of that website is a free PDF listing the top five tips from the Surf Mastery Podcast. So go to Surf mastery.com and you can download that PDF for free. Today's guest. Well, I was looking back through all the stats on this podcast and the the most downloaded episodes have been from Devon Howard, so it made sense to have him on episode 100. And so you can go back and listen to. He first appeared on the show, uh, episode 41, discussing longboarding and nose riding. Then it was back in, uh, episode 77 zero. Uh, we talked about Mid-lengths in episode 86. It was Twin fins. And today in episode 100, Devin Howard joins us again to discuss style. Style is something that is in it's fundamental. It's paramount for every type of surfing that is done, from traditional longboarding all the way through to high performance, short boarding. All of the greats, all of the most memorable surfers have good style. They are stylish. From Joel Tudor in traditional longboarding through to Joel Parkinson as a high performance, competitive short boarder Tom Curren. Uh, mid lengths and twin fins. You got Torin Martin. Michael Frampton: And of course, Devon Howard himself is a very stylish surfer. He's very smooth, very graceful on a longboard, on a mid length and a twin fin. We've even seen some footage of him riding, uh, three thrusters out there on his Instagram. And his style, his technique, his gracefulness runs throughout his surfing. So a perfect topic for us to discuss in episode 100, so I would love to hear your feedback on the show in general. Last 100 episodes and of course this episode. Go ahead, send us an email Mike at Surf mastery.com. Or you can DM me on Instagram or leave a comment under the, uh, the visual for this episode. And of course, support Devin Howard, give his Instagram a follow. And of course, he's, uh, joining us from the Channel Islands office in Santa Barbara. Uh, Devin is currently working with Channel Islands, are working on some new surfboard models as well as he's you know, some of the most popular boards recently have been he's been a part of. So without further adieu, I shall fade in my conversation with Devon Howard. I actually see a lot of agreement between Brett and Chaz on this subject. Yeah, yeah, because there are there are thing right that you go to a Grateful Dead concert and you experience the show and the vibe, you don't really listen to them on Spotify. Devon Howard: Yeah. It's it's something to be enjoyed live. Michael Frampton: Yeah. There's a certain style and vibe to them I think that come across differently in person than it does. And also the audience they sort of draw in. Yeah. Rather to the music on Spotify right there. Devon Howard: There are two bands that I think are better live as well, which I think Radiohead is better live. I like Radiohead, I think a lot of their albums are great. I've been to a few of their shows that I think, no, this is 10 or 15 years ago. I don't know if that's still the case, but at the time when they were really peaking, they were insane live. And then I also saw James Brown live. Oh, wow. 25 years ago. And that was incredible. Mhm. I mean what a showman. Michael Frampton: Yes. Yeah I can imagine I mean there's the Radiohead live from the basement. Um unbelievable. Like gives you I can't remember what album it's they play in full from their studio basement studio and just makes you appreciate them on a whole nother level. Yeah. Just just by watching that on YouTube, not even being there. Well, yeah. Um, I remember seeing a gentleman called AMP Fiddler, another one of the best live acts I ever saw. Um, gave me a new appreciation of his music. He's sort of new, new age funk slash reggae. Um. Interesting music. Yeah. Catch a fire. Catch a fire. They're doing a tour through California at the moment. There are another unbelievable band live. Their live performance and sound is bigger than their their studio albums. I think they actually New Zealand band. You get a chance to see them. They often play in Santa Barbara. I forget the venue names, like a 500 capacity venue in Santa Barbara. They always play there. Devon Howard: Is that the ball? I'm not sure. Michael Frampton: Can't remember. Devon Howard: Anyway, a lot of venues there, but yeah. Michael Frampton: Style. Let's talk about style. Do you? Yeah. What would what do you know the origin of the word. Devon Howard: Um, I don't, but I'd imagine. Uh. Well, I hope you did some research on it. Is it, um, the Latin word is it is it is it Greek? Is it? Where does it come from? Michael Frampton: Let me sort of summarize from etymology online from the early 14th century started out as a writing instrument, pen or stylus, uh, a piece of a piece of written discourse or narrative, uh, characteristic. Characteristic, uh, rhetorical mode of an author, a manner or mode of expression. Uh, a way of life behavior. Uh, then the word sort of transformed, uh, the evolution of the word uh, from writing tool went into writing into manner of writing, into mode of expression, uh, in writing of a particular writer, writer or author. Um, and then it was in the 1500s. It was paired with the word substance, um, which basically meant back then, divine part of essence, sorry, divine part or essence, uh, and that, sort of, that sort of gave the word, uh, a deeper meaning, including finer parents or dashing character. Um, then it was the word then went into an artist's particular mode or form of skilled presentation that was later extended into athletics. Um, then by the 1800s it was distinctive or characteristic mode of dress. Obviously it was more in regards to fashion. Um, and so there's a, there's a little bit of a history of the word. So I think there's a lot of lot of depth to that. And it's certainly, um, it's very, uh, apt for, for surfing. A lot of those meanings, I think. Yes. Had tell me what you think about style and how important it is. Devon Howard: Well, style is um, from my personal experience growing up, it was a, it was a measure of good surfing and, um, it was a marker of, like, one's own presentation of their expression of surfing. Uh, I don't want to cheapen it by, I guess, using the word brand, like your brand of surfing, but, um, everyone has their own form of expression, and style is. Oftentimes I see style as making the difficult look easy and my own belief in, you know, just absorbing what was around me when I was a kid. You know, we're humans. We we sort of mimic and and imitate what's around us. I haven't innovated anything really at all. I've just looked what's around. And you take bits and pieces of first. You take it from your parents, of course. And then as you get out in the world, it's like what's going on around you. And in San Diego, where I grew up. And I think this was the same in many other served cities in not only the US but the world. Um, in the 80s, the older surfers, 10 to 20 years or year older than you, where style focused as opposed to this idea of, um, ripping or tearing something apart and in doing it with reckless abandon. Um, that was something that started getting more popular as I was a kid. So I was sort of born into this era where one thing was kind of falling out of favor. Um, and this other form of surfing was gaining popularity. And, uh, sorry, that was kind of a muddled answer, but it's it's I think it's one of the most difficult subjects in surfing to discuss or to describe because it's so subjective. Um, and it comes with the word style, comes with a lot of different ideas to people ranging from beauty to something that's very contrived and nonfunctional. Michael Frampton: Yeah. I mean, has the word style itself has, as you sort of addressed, has a lot of meanings, like everyone has their own unique style, you could say, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are stylish. So when we think of when we think of stylish surfers, we do. We think of beauty and grace and flow. Um, so and I think it is related to, to that and it's related to efficiency, right? I mean, Rob Machado comes to mind. I think he's sort of an incredibly stylish surfer, but he's also fits in that modern category. Category of radical. Yeah, he encompasses both. And I mean, world champ Joel Parkinson obviously fit the criteria of of competition surfing but remained incredibly smooth and stylish. Devon Howard: Yeah. Well, um, you know, I think depending who where you grew up and what culture you came from or grew up in, um, style could also just not be that important. You know, if, if surfing to to you or just to any individual is about, um, really pushing as hard as they can with maneuvers and being as radical as they can and, you know, tearing apart a wave of, you know, like you think of the Brazilian storm. Guys there for years have been, you know, they're well deserved. They're incredible athletes. They are highly athletic. And it is explosive maneuvers. And they're acrobats in many ways. Um, for some reason, as that game has gained popularity, some aspects of the presentation and sort of fall into the wayside where, uh, in gymnastics, um, presentation and form is still really part of the whole thing was never really let like if you do a floor routine in gymnastics, um, or let's say dance or anything like that, they're doing really kind of athletic, powerful moves, but they also keep the form and I don't know quite the exact reason, but, uh, that sort of started falling out of favor in surfing, mostly because what drives our conversations oftentimes revolves around competition. Surfing, um, like competition surfing drives a lot of the media narratives, um, let's say, who are like, where do we get our information from? It's driven by the cell to, to whatever extent that is, stab in their audience. Devon Howard: Um, surf line kind of, sort of. But they're more focused on cameras and whatnot. And then the most of the magazines have gone out of business. But only ten years ago, a lot of the stories were driven by the the personalities and the folks that competed. And there was a mixed bag in there of surfers that had great style, like Joel Parkinson. He mentioned, um, I would say Kelly Slater has a good style. It's a different style. It's his own. Um, and then on the opposite end of that would be like an Adriano de Souza or somebody like that, where he's clearly just incredibly talented, but sort of putting his surfing together and like one seamless, fluid motion was not a focus of his. And so, um, it's been interesting to watch and the broader conversations of the mainstream, how that sort of played out, uh, in back to where I grew up. I grew up on the fringe of all that. Anyways, so I was riding longboards in the 80s and 90s that was as fringe as it got. And in that world, all through that time, um, style was still important, even when folks were trying to emulate Shortboard maneuvers on longboards, there was still an emphasis of style. Um, sorry. I'll shut up. I don't know where I'm going with that, but yeah. Michael Frampton: So I'm just wondering when you look at, I mean, I think that you mentioned the Brazilian storm. I think Gabriel Medina is quite stylish. Not all the time, but probably actually more so when you see him. Freeserve he sort of. He just seems to be more relaxed when he's not surfing in a competition. And I think that's maybe what separates the I think that's a big part of being stylish is you're very calm and you're relaxed. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going slower or that you're even putting less effort in. It's just maybe you referenced gymnastics. I think a gymnast could do the same routine. They get the same height, the same amount of power. But if one of their runs, they were purposely trying to keep the presentation of themselves relaxed and calm, it would be more visually appealing. Sort of making it look, look easy. Devon Howard: Yeah. That's the that's the thing. Making it difficult look easy. Mhm. In the 60s or 50s or whatever the boards weren't very maneuverable. So um clearly the market did. Surfing was just people who were stylish and could kind of keep it together. Um, hang on one second. Um, are you hearing a beeping on your end? What? I'm getting messages. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Is that your phone? Devon Howard: Yeah. I don't know how to turn off the iMessage on my, uh. Oh, it's on the computer. I'm trying to see how to undo this. Is this on. Michael Frampton: Your phone, a phone or your laptop or your iPad? Devon Howard: It's on my laptop. Oh, sorry. You're going to have to edit this out. That's all right. I'm just getting, like, every one of them. Don't fuck me up. The client. Claudia, um, do you have any idea how to get rid of iMessage off here? Preferences services? Michael Frampton: That's a good question. I don't I don't have my, um, I don't have my laptop linked to my phone, so. Yeah. Devon Howard: Don't do it. References. Let's say. Michael Frampton: I'd say I'd be under notifications, notifications and focus is like a bell symbol. Devon Howard: On, uh, on the computer itself or on the phone. Michael Frampton: I'm looking on my laptop. Devon Howard: Where did you find the notifications in System Preferences? Michael Frampton: Okay. Devon Howard: System preferences notifications. There they are. Look at that. Michael Frampton: And top top right there's a there's a button. Allow notifications so you can turn that off or on I'd say that's it. Devon Howard: Only five messages? There we go. Okay, I want to turn that off. Okay. Apologies for that. Okay. So, um. All right. Michael Frampton: So where were we? Let me throw out some some adjectives that I wrote down after thinking about style a little bit. Um, efficient. Graceful. Functional. Calm. Focused. Relaxed. Grounded. Present. Fearless. Or maybe, better put, courageous. Is there anything you would add to that or you think shouldn't be there? Devon Howard: Uh, no. I just think it's more about a calm and a gracefulness. It's mostly what it is. And it's just a it's just the form of your personal expression. I think a lot of the style, you'll see style of folks from a distance, and a lot of ways it matches up to their personality. Right? You'll see someone who's quite busy, a lot of a lot of kinetic, sort of frantic, uh, motions and, and not always the case, but sometimes, like, okay, this person's a little overcaffeinated in general, you know, they're really mellow, kind of quiet. People have this very quiet. Always meet a really quiet surfer with their style, and they're really loud and and obnoxious. There's exceptions to the rule, but if you think about it quickly, there's not often the case. And so, um, I think a lot of those adjectives actually work pretty well. Um, I don't what did you say? Courageous. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Devon Howard: I don't really know that that applies to it. Really. I don't think it's really much to do with courage other than. Well, I was. Michael Frampton: Thinking that I was just wondering if that was a better word than fearless. Devon Howard: Mhm. Michael Frampton: Because if you, if you look, if you look scared, that's not very stylish is it. Devon Howard: No, no it's very your tent style. And yeah I've said to people I don't do surf coaching, but if I've ever seen someone in the water and looks like they're struggling, if it's appropriate or sort of convenient, like they're just sort of right there. I'll say, do you do you mind if I offer some advice? It's usually well received. Um, a lot of times I've said, I think you just relax a little bit. Your body's too tense. Looks bad, but it also screws up the your ability to surf because now it's affected the form. Like you're sort of hunched over and bracing for, like, some sort of impact where you need to be more relaxed. The arms need to be relaxed, the shoulders should be relaxed. Surely you should be able to sort of slink back and into your knees and your hips and let those kind of bend and sort of sit into the board nicely. And so I think, um, what I, what I often think about style, there's always like there's two camps as the people that get it and, and style is usually it's like you know it when you see it. I said, how do you know that something's pornographic versus art or beauty? And the a lot of times the answer is, well, you know, when you see it, you know, something is gross or smut as opposed to art. Devon Howard: Like you go into an art gallery and there's naked, you know, images of a naked person. How is that not pornography? And it's like, well, you know, when you see it and it's like, style. You sort of know it when you see it, and then you have, um, the other end of that where people will feel style is just posing and looking cool, like you're putting your hands in the air to, to look like Alex Knost or Mickey Dora or Rob Machado, whoever the insert the surfer, you're trying to mimic their hand placement, and sometimes the hand placement provides no real function or value to the to the ride. Other than it. It might feel good, I guess, but it's not making you surf better. Um, where I like to, I often will. I will argue or believe that yes, there are people that pose and that does exist, I exist, grant you that. But good style also brings about, um, really good form. Or I would look at it a different way. Really good form pulls along the style into it. So if you have good form and whether that's in a barrel or a cutback, if your body is doing sort of the right things to make a beautiful, seamless ride easier. Devon Howard: Um, along with that usually comes a pretty good style if you don't have a good style. A lot of times the form is really working against your surfing. So for example, you got to do a cutback in your arm is up and back, um, front side. And let's say I'm turning this way. Front side cut back. Well, if my back arm is in the air waving behind me, I'm really struggling to get my body around and I'm actually having to work really hard for could potentially even injure yourself. Um, so that really hinders your surfing. But if I brought the arm in and drop it down and then have the arm kind of point toward where I want to go, the rest of my body goes. And it's actually quite easy to do the turn and consequently it looks much better. Doesn't look so awkward. Yeah. And and this could be said of your front arm. I've seen folks do cut backs with. I don't know why this happens, but sometimes their front arm is is sort of flailing and going behind them over here. Or they're extending and reaching too far. Um, so when there's this nice balance of the front and the back hand on the front side, cut back looks cool. Hey, that's great. If someone took a photo. Yeah, you probably put on the wall. Devon Howard: Looks pretty good. Looks like Michael Peterson or somebody or whatever. Joel Parkinson Ethan Ewing would be a really good contemporary example, I guess. And, um, but when it's all sort of like the form is there, it looks good, but now you're surfing better and the turn is faster and more complete. And also when you have nice form, you get the board in trim. What I mean by that is when when the boards in trim, it's sort of if you know anything about sailing, when everything's in alignment with the bow and the sail and the the boat is really hitting its top speed, there's nothing really hindering or dragging or fighting against um, that top trim speed. In surfing, you want to get to the top trim speed, because when you have speed, it's easier to complete maneuvers, it's less work. You go into the maneuvers with speed, you can do a lot better. It's like snowboarding. If anyone snowboarded you know that the first few days you're learning, the instructor will say, you just need to get going faster. You know what? We know that's scary. I don't want to go faster, but. Well, you're going so slow that that's why you're tumbling and you're catching an edge and you're getting stuck on the hill. Go faster. And then you see this light bulb moment with people like, my gosh, well, I should have just been going faster all along. Devon Howard: It's the same with surfing. You'll see people struggling to get trim speed because their form is so terrible. They're not understanding that the board is not even in trend. The board then noses out or they're waving their arms. They're there. They're there shaking their body like this, and they're trying to wiggle and do stuff. And you're watching the board underneath. And the board is just like on a gimbal, just like not getting any trim. It's just stop and go, stop and go. So it's this utter fail where if the person just relaxed a little bit, relax their arms, don't try to flop the body around and just get the idea of even going straight, which is hard to do on a chalkboard. Clearly, if you're a beginner, you probably shouldn't even be on the floor. Um, it's just going to be a struggle. Yet a board that's medium like a mid length or something, or a long board where you can kind of stand there and glide and trim, and then you can kind of get that form where your body is body's relaxed. And um, so a lot of times good style, I believe just comes with the right form, if that makes sense. Michael Frampton: I totally agree. Yeah. And that's what I think. That's what a surf coach, the surf coach's job is. And then it's once, once the person becomes at first the new, the better form will feel strange and maybe even, um, abnormal and uncomfortable. And it's only once that form becomes, uh, ingrained and you become comfortable with it, then it looks stylish. So it's it's maybe it's a precursor to style. Is is good form. Devon Howard: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Um, another thing that I've thought about a lot in the last several years about style is, um, it, it sort of belies the, the technique or the difficulty of the maneuver. I think if it looks like someone's trying really super hard to do like a, let's say, a crazy air or just like the craziest turn where like, they blow, they like, blow the tail out and spin the board around and like, oh, whoa, that was insane. That was so difficult. But if you see somebody do a top speed cut back and they don't lose or drift the fins and they just go and mock 20 and just bam, come up fluid and seamless. You might say, man, that was really smooth. That was really stylish. But you don't often think that that was also really difficult. It's interesting. And, um, I'm not trying to get people to cheer more for the stylist, I guess, but I think it's worth sort of acknowledging that Mikey February or Torin Martin and some of those things they're doing, um, we're drawn to them because they're beautiful, which is undeniable. Um, but it's also interesting to think that these are the highest level people at the very upper echelon, at the top peak of, uh, you know, ability of sphere fame. And it something to be learned there, like to not just only acknowledge and only see the style which is great. Devon Howard: I love that I'll watch that stuff all day long, but to like hit the rewind button and look at what they're doing and how on rail that board is and how difficult it is to hold the line and not lose it. Because a lot of times, especially in performance, short boarding it, it's incredible what the surfers do. It's like it's a controlled failure of the surfing. So a lot of times when the fins release, it's a and I know this because I put a lot of thought into fins and foils and whatnot. A lot of the best high performance surfing maneuvers are, um, a controlled failure. Mhm. Um, they're pushing the limits of the board, and a lot of times the fins or the equipment can't really handle what these surfers are giving it. It's really interesting. Look at look at someone laying into a turn and their butt is sliding across the wave and the fins and the board and everything's sliding. Um, and then look at, like a mick Fanning or somebody who can hold that or Ethan Ewing and hold it all the way through. That's gnarly. That is just like peak form. But you're like, man, that was so smooth, but you're not ever saying that was so difficult to do. And I don't know what the point is I'm making. Devon Howard: I guess it comes back to, uh, like the kind of surfing I like to do. It's could be easily scoffed at as pretty easy, like, hey, mid-length surfing, you're just going straight. It's not really difficult. Um, but I don't know, man. At the highest levels. Like, I think what Torin Martin does, I think what February does if he's on a mid lake or other, you know, there's other surfers out there doing it and I cut a watch. Wow, look at that. 5/6 of the rail of that board is buried. And that's what I do myself. And that's to me that's the most thrilling thing is to bury that rail. How how far can I push this thing before it fails me? That's just really, really thrilling. You're just on the edge of disaster. You know, when you go on one of those seven foot boards, go to the bottom, slink, you know, and and coil up into the board and push it as hard as you can. Alex Moss does this really good as well. I can go on forever. People do a great job of this and they push all that board through. And then if you don't watch it, you know, if you're not too far forward or too much weight on your front foot, you'll slingshot up the face as this fast, free feeling, like a flying feeling that's highly addictive. Devon Howard: It's something that you just keep my people that are into those types of boards, they just keep chasing it. Um, and then down the line, do the same thing again. Now I'm going to bury a whole lot of rail on the cutback. How hard can I push it? And when I get down to the bottom of the wave, can I just keep going right back to the whitewater? Oh yes, I can. Damn. Just keep going. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Uh, and if you blow that, you're doing the split that's on the board. Now you've got a torn MCL. Um, but you're going full throttle. And that on that type of equipment. Um, the form is important so that you don't botch it because you really could get injured on some of these things. It probably someone who hears has got a laugh and think, this is a joke. Like, you're being really hyperbolic, bro. Come on. It's just a mid length and you're over water. Um, yeah. When you're pushing it really hard, it's it's it's thrilling and it's exciting and it is difficult to do and it's I think it's, um, it's really appealing to a lot of people. Um, and then they, you know, they go and try and do it and say, man, I, I wish I could surf like Rob Machado on this thing. Yeah. Michael Frampton: Well, all the surfers. Devon Howard: Take ten years. Michael Frampton: Yeah, if not longer. I think all the surfers you mention and the way you talk about their surfing is they're. Can they stay connected? You know, that as, as they're going through the, through the turns and in between turns, there's no there's no radical gain or loss of speed. Right. So that where they do the cutback isn't just a change of direction. It's in sync with that part of the wave. So they stay connected to the power source. So there's a certain it's a radical maneuver, but the speed doesn't waver too much, whereas some surfers might jump up to the top and bust the fins, and they might slow right down and then fall back down into the wave and go again. And it looks good in photos and maybe gets judged well in a competition. But it's not necessarily they're not as connected to the wave as other surfers. Devon Howard: Yeah. And again, that's debatable. I'm sure there's other people who will feel opposite of that. And that's great. You know, surfing's subjective. Yeah. And you know, in in just to bring it back a little bit to competition if that's okay. I know lots of people don't care about surf competition, but it is where a lot of the best surfing's happening. It's where the like the high bar is a lot of times um, and in the 60s and 70s style was just sort of, um, it wasn't like there was a style box that was ticked. It was it was sort of like this nice little cozy little wrapping around the surfing that was just a given, you know, so it didn't really need to be discussed. And then in the 80s, when in probably really the late 70s when the twin fin was really coming on with Mr. pushing that and Sean Thompson and other people chasing him. Um, they were packing in as many maneuvers as they possibly could into a ride to take away more points. And and this isn't my own thought or original idea. I've read these things elsewhere, and I agree with his take, which is somewhere along the way. The beauty just sort of eroded because the focus is now like we're getting really fixated on number of maneuvers. And this like real technical aspect of the difficulty of the maneuvers. Devon Howard: And surfing is already highly subjective. And you have this even more subjective thing, style. Um, and some of them may be, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there was a style element at some point. I'm not aware of it, maybe there was. And um, so anyways, the 80s kind of moves on and there were clearly lots of stylish surfers. I mean, I grew up like many people my age, I'm 50, so I worshiped Tom Curren and I loved Tommy Carroll and a bunch of folks. There was lots of style, but there was also some people with some really hideous style, like Gary Elkerton and David and all these people. Nothing against them, man. Like, I think they're all incredible surfers, but there were some hideous styles and they crushed it in contests because they were just animals, like lacerating, tearing it up. And because the broader culture is being driven by whatever media is being consumed. And the media at the time was really sort of swiveling and craning and watching what's going on in competition, because that's like where the money's being plugged in. So those brands like, hey, we validate this thing we're doing, which is competition surfing. Um, and it just boiled down to what do you got to do to win this thing? And if making it look beautiful was not ever important, why would you spend time doing that? Tom Curran couldn't help himself. Devon Howard: He was stylish no matter what. But, um, lots, lots of other surfers weren't, and they did very well. Um, and so as the decade or two ensues, um, just the sort of broad mainstream viewpoint was, that style just wasn't important. However, the people that were in the sort of the underground, your locals, people that sort of stuck to the fringe and even the in people that short boarded as well, obviously still kind of kept style alive and in it. And the reason style always stayed alive is because the idea that human beings are drawn and attracted to beauty is as old as time, I think. I mean, who knows? When that began, I had a really nice chat with David Scales on, um, Surf Splendor, and we spoke about this there. So if you want to hear more about this, go check that out. I think it was a nice conversation, but I'll sort of reiterate some of the points there was. I read an article by Scott Hewlett in The Surfer's Journal, and he wrote quite a bit about style, and he illustrated a point that I'd never considered. And he sort of talking about this Greek artists. It was like 500 BC. I'm like, where is this thing going? Why are we talking about bronze sculptures? Um, but he made a really brilliant point, which is, okay, why does style matter? Why do we keep talking about it? Um, it's because beauty endures. Devon Howard: It is a common theme in human nature. Now, in recent times, I'd say beauty is being abandoned. If you look at modern architecture and just about any town, everything looks like shit. So I don't know what's going on there. We used to make beautiful buildings and now we're stopping doing it. Um, you we can't control that. But in surfing, we keep getting drawn back to this idea of beauty. Despite all those things that happen that we just talked about in the 80s and 90s competition, surfing and getting derailed. The broad culture still is always known instinctively that this is something that should, um, we should never stop cherishing. We should never stop celebrating. Um, and I think it's backed up by if you go to any Torin Martin video, go down to this thing below the screen that says views. A lot of Torin Martin videos have like a million plus views. Um, go over to Gabrielle Medina or anyone, and I'm not picking on these people. Just pick anybody. I'll bet you right now that Torin is is beating a lot of those surfers, 2 or 3 or 4 to 1 in terms of views. Now, you could argue that, well, there's more a lot more Gabriel Medina type surfers and there's not that many tour Martin's, I'll give you that. Devon Howard: But I, I think it's really because we are drawn to beauty. And so back to that Surfers Journal article, which is he he said, imagine taking those Greek statues and putting a surfboard underneath them. And when I was done reading the article, I went and I googled 500 BC Greek statue and I forget the artist's name, its Greek name, and I was instantly like, huh, look at that. You just put a surfboard under these statues. And some of the form and posture was a little bit silly, but a lot of it was pretty spot on. And then you go right over to Jerry Lopez, or you go to Mikey February or somebody else, and you can see that, um, there's a similarity to this idea of beauty. And then you go take it steps further, take it to, uh, any type of traditional dance. Have you ever seen ugly, poor form at any dance scenario where there's, like, serious people, whether it's ballroom or it's swing or it's foxtrot or it's tango or it's salsa, it's just incredibly beautiful. And it's this expression. The music is coming in. You're viewing and watching and feeling the music. There's that input, and the output is what these people are feeling. And so that our output in surfing is, is that form and that expression. Um, bullfighters. Same thing. Michael Frampton: Mhm. Devon Howard: Now the bullfighters have a little more of a pose at the end, the bulls coming in and the bull goes through the cape and they kind of hold it and they sort of like it's almost like a taunting of the bull. Like you didn't kill me. And look how calm I am right here. And a lot of the surfers in the 50s and 60s, they really admired the bullfighters as a great shot of Joey Cobell in Peru in the 60s. Guys never bullfight, but bull fought before, and he's down there and there's pictures of him in the bull ring with a Hawaiian print shirt on and doing the whole full Ole, you know. And so this idea of style really, um, is always going to matter and always be important to us. Um, so long as we don't ever abandon this, um, attraction of ours to beauty, you know, we're attracted to beautiful people. Clearly, that's a given, right? Um, but we're really drawn to beautiful, um, things art, architecture, wonderful garden, uh, an unmolested landscape. And so it I don't think people really care to give too much thought about style. Devon Howard: I think it's just sort of like I said, you know, when you see it, does it really need to be talked about? But I think in the context of a podcast like yours where people are trying to improve their surfing, um, having a real understanding that this isn't just for show style isn't just to look cool. It's not like putting on a cool outfit to look cool. Um, it's a real purpose driven thing. Certain articles of clothing look great, but they also have a purpose. Maybe it has SPF in it, maybe it's, um, built for a particular, um, activity to make it more comfortable. Um, for us, as I was saying in the very beginning, like the form, um, the style sort of follows the form. And if you, if you really think about your form and you're relaxed and you're sort of paying attention to the things that you talk about on your podcast or where people get their information, There's lots of different YouTube things, obviously. Um, you two could have nice style if you so desire. Michael Frampton: Yeah, I 100% agree. Surfing is first and foremost an art form. Mhm. It's only within competition that it becomes a sport. And then yes, sometimes we don't necessarily we sacrifice a bit of style for progression perhaps as well as what's happening in windsurfing is a sport. I still think the best of the best, the best of the best can buy. Like John John, he's number one at the moment for a reason. Not just because he's progressive, but because he he would do a progressive turn with calm style like no one else. Yeah, yeah. So I still have faith. I think there'll be the odd slip up. You know, Toledo's frantic aerial maneuver that goes higher than everyone else. The judges kind of. They can't not score it, you know. So, you know, there'll be blips in the system, glitches in the matrix, per se, until until the judges, you know, really start to consider style and and make that a point which hopefully, maybe one day they will. I think it would make, uh, I would make surfing more watchable. Devon Howard: Well, they have done so in longboard surfing. Yes. Longboard surfing has a much smaller audience, obviously. Um, but as I believe you and I talked about in the past, I think we did. I was at the WSL for a few years, and I worked on the longboard tour and built into the criteria is the word style also two other words flow and grace. Um, Style. Flow. Grace is in the criteria and it's hard, a little difficult to train the judges on it, you know? Um, it's highly subjective. It's something we could we could sit here for an hour, breaking down style, flow, grace. It will still feel like we barely scratched the surface. Um, because it's it is highly subjective. Just like art is just like music is just like food is just like, what kind of waves I like? Ah, it's just like that. It's just, um, really can be difficult to put your finger on it. But the way we did the training to help, um, these judges, if anyone cares to know this stuff is, um, have them really focus on somebody making something really difficult look easy, but also at the same time, dealt with sight of the positioning of the wave or the difficulty of the maneuver, because to the untrained eye, you could you could see someone doing a nose ride and maybe they're doing something really what you may think is beautiful on the nose. Devon Howard: Maybe their arms are held a certain way. It just looks kind of like cool. But if you pay close attention, they're like ten feet in front of the pocket and you're like, that's not that hard to do. Mhm. So the so what helps is in the other part of the criteria is um, the degree of difficulty that is part of it. So you have to, you're looking at the style of flow and grace but you're applying it to are these surfers in the pocket. Is the surfer using their rail or are they lifting the board out of the water? Because to lift the longboard out of the water and turn it as far easier than engaging the rail in the water and pushing it through a turn. That's much more difficult. And so it has been applied in longboard surfing. Let's see if we can. If anyone cares, we could try to do a campaign to get the Shortboard tour to break more. Michael Frampton: I'm with you. I'm with you. Ultimately, I do think it shines through and the cream always rises to the top. But it would be nice if it was literally in the criteria, and it was considered by each surfer to be a worthy consideration. Um, coming back to form, let me I'm going to share my screen with you. Let me. Hopefully this works. Oh, shit. Did that work? Can you see my screen? Devon Howard: I think so. Let me move my notes here a little bit. Oops. Too many things around here. I'm terrible at computer stuff, but second. So where it is now? Okay, I can see it now. Michael Frampton: So there's an example of a, you know, if that was placed on the nose of a longboard, it'd be quite cool. Devon Howard: Yeah, it's pretty close. Michael Frampton: But then also so here's you see on the left there is the way that a baby learns to stand now because the infant is so weak, there's only one way that they can learn to roll over and learn to stand up and hold themselves. Because their muscles are so weak, their bones have to be placed so accurately in order for them to be able to stand and move. And that's how we learn because of our our weakness and our slow progression into strength, we learn the most efficient way possible. Now it's the athletes that maintain that neurological efficiency that end up with the best form naturally, i.e. the way Kelly Slater's standing there in those barrels. Not only is he standing in a very similar way to the infant there, he's also very calm and relaxed in that position. Devon Howard: Yeah, I would definitely not be that calm in that way. Those waves. Michael Frampton: Exactly. So it does come back to to form. And it's also when when an athlete is standing with their joints in DNS, we call it joint centration and that the bones are stacked on top on top of each other in a very efficient way. It just looks right. Not only does it look right the way the forces are spread throughout the body, it doesn't feel hard. Anyone who's ever tried, if anyone, has ever tried to skate a vert ramp, for example, half pipe, it feels like, oh man, my legs aren't strong enough. How do people and then you watch a 12 year old just go up and down. They're not doing it because their legs are stronger than yours. They're not even doing it because they're stronger relative to their body weight. They're doing it because they're stacking themselves. Their bones and their joints are centered properly, and the force is being transferred throughout their entire body through the center of the bone and into the skateboard. Whereas someone who doesn't know what they're doing, they're trying to muscle their way through it. They only does it feel terrible. It looks terrible. Yeah. So I agree with that. Yeah. So it does come back to efficiency. And you said no good style is that you know it when you see it. My question to you is, do you know it when you feel it? Devon Howard: Yes. Um, I believe so. Um, I know, um, I've even had moments where I just didn't feel like I was in the right form. It just didn't the the turn didn't feel good or the particular move movement. Maybe it's a nose ride or something. Didn't feel great. And if you get a chance to be lucky enough to come across a video or a photo of that moment, you're like, mm, yeah, that that is actually backs it up. It looks a bit awkward. It looks a bit off. So and you definitely can feel good style because you like it, like it's all tethered to, to itself. Like it's it feels good. It looks good. Um, and it, it's sort of like carries on the ride. It's it's like when you get off the very beginning of the ride and the first bottom turn is successful and your feet are in the right place. It really sets up the rest of the ride. Um, if you botch that, let's say you screw it up getting to your feet or off the bottom. Then you get you. You screw up the pace of the wave. So, um, yeah, I've had times where my feet were too far forward or back or whatever. Um, or I hit a chop and my arms sort of waved a little bit, and then I got out of that rhythm. Um, and that didn't that definitely didn't feel good. And it certainly didn't, because it looked like I was rolling up the windows as opposed to my arms being sort of down and going the direction that I want to be headed. Devon Howard: A lot of times the front end, the back end oftentimes are going the direction you want to go. I find that to be very helpful, and that feels good to me because I feel really centered. I or you'd say stacked. You know, I never thought of it that way, but, um, so yeah, I would agree. I would say you definitely. You definitely feel it. Um, my own belief is I don't I don't do anything in the style that I feel is what's called contrived, where I'm trying to present before of some kind that it has a certain look. The form I have is, is really based off of function, and that's because I watched the generation two ahead of me at a waves like wind and sea and Cardiff Reef, and I watched the elders and what the I really watched closely what they were doing. How they were sinking down into the board. And I noticed that their hands, their fingers were never apart. Their, um, hand gestures were sort of always in the direction of where their board and body was heading. It was like this stacking or centering. He kind of like hunkered down, but they never looked stiff or scared or afraid of anything or timid. It was very, a very confident, almost like a martial artist, like a kung fu person or something that has confidence in the form of that particular move. Devon Howard: Um, the really good surfers, the real standout surfers. I, I identified that pretty young and I said, I want I need to learn how to do that. Um, so it was never a contrived thing, like, I need to look good and look cool. I just knew that that was good surfing. And as a consequence of learning going through that, it also felt really good. It was like a good golf swing. I don't golf at all, but I have friends who do and I can understand like how much work they put into that golf swing. And when they do that, clearly it looks good from a distance because they hit the ball and it goes right where they want it to go. So that's pretty awesome. But they'll tell you it feels good. It's like uh, or baseball. If you've ever played baseball, you know the feeling of a homerun. There's a sound of the bat and the feel through the bat into your hands, and you feel it. The follow through of the swing. You're like, that ball is out of here. It's pretty cool. Um, Mhm. A reward to not that it's work but there's sort of like this payoff and a reward to the dedication that it took to learn that, that art form. Mhm. Michael Frampton: But it always comes back to the feeling. Yeah. Devon Howard: It really does. Yeah I didn't I haven't put too much thought into the feeling piece of it. But um yeah. You know it's disgusting and really dumb and shallow. But I've, I've had moments where the way where the ride did it feel good, and I didn't even finish the wave. I was so not into the feeling. I just kicked out. I was like, I've botched this thing so bad that someone else just needs to finish it. I'm just. I just kick out and I go back up to the top and kind of regroup and go, what? What just went wrong there? And then, you know, like surfing. Everyone surfs for different reasons too. Like for some people, surfing is a couple times a month. It's an escape for them. They don't care if they surf. Well, that's not what they're there for. Michael Frampton: Like they're probably not listening to this, though. Devon Howard: Probably not. Um, and I like I've had people say, man, you look so serious when you're surfing. I'm like, I'm pretty serious about it. Like it? I'm to me, it's so strange. It's serious fun and and it's as I've gotten older, I haven't lost interest in it. It's like a it's like a hunt to me. It's really weird. No, and I don't I don't know if it's just some human thing of like the game and the chess moves and the everything involved with observing patterns. I've observed patterns for decades, and now I see the patterns, and the benefit for me is I know which wave to pick. I know where to beat. And by knowing that I've set up the ride and therefore I've sort of like predetermined this feeling that I'm after, which is, as I said, it's highly addicting. Surfing like you, you never satiated. Why is that? You always want another one. You always want more. Um. And but all through this process, the hunt, the enjoying, understanding the patterns, the chasing, the moment, the feeling. Um, there's a there's a tremendous sense of there's like a reward when all the elements have come together and you apply everything you've learned. It's a really cool feeling. I think you could say that about a lot of things in life, whatever your or your craft is. Devon Howard: And for me, surfing isn't just like some waste of time thing, like that's part of it. That's a bonus to me. Like, hey, I'm not doing chores or I'm not at work. That's fantastic. I will take that. But it's also like a craft. It's like a, it's a, it's it's a way I express myself. Some people do that through building things out of wood in their garage or a number of other things. Um, so the style piece of it, it's just sort of come along with it. It never was like, I'm going to really think about this super duper hard. Um, and you just, you learn through time that they the style and the and the form, they sort of, like, are tied together, you know, and you kind of look at it this way, and then you go back and look at it the other way, and they really come together nicely. And if you fight them, you're surfing. You're not going to surf as well. If you're not surfing as well, you're not going to feel it as right. You won't feel that thing we just talked about. Um, and then consequently, not that not that that many people care, but you're surfing is going to be kind of ugly. Michael Frampton: Thing is. Michael Frampton: It'll. Michael Frampton: Because when you are, when you're connected and you're efficient, it feels better. Simple as that. It feels better if you if you close your eyes and just imagine, like an image or a video section of someone who epitomizes style, are they? What are they feeling in the moment? Are they worried about what they look like? No, no. Are they are they are they scared? No. Are they putting in a ton of effort? Devon Howard: I would say no. Michael Frampton: It's in the. Devon Howard: Moment. Yeah. There's probably a small number of people who. It's contrived, like you could go to Byron Bay. Sorry. Sorry. Byron Bay. They pick on you right now. You could go to Malibu. Um, pick your spot. Ah, maybe Montego Bay. I don't know, uh, way inside there. There's going to be places where there are folks that, for whatever reason, this. Well, like, who cares? There's no, like, laws or rules. Like, I'm not mad about this. It's just they're just observations. That's it. They're really controlled. It's just so contrived. They're sort of putting the form or I'm sorry, let me back up. They're putting the presentation ahead of the form. You know, they're worried about all the bells and whistles and the dressing, but, like, at the core of all the ingredients going into making this beautiful thing, they've got it all wrong, you know? And so, um, you. Michael Frampton: Can always smell that though, I think. Devon Howard: And it's a missed opportunity for them. Uh, does it change my life or your life or anybody listening? You do. You, man. Like, I'm very libertarian in that way. I don't really care. But, um, we're on a podcast called Surf Mastery, so we're we're we're nerding out. And if you're here to get better, don't get caught up in the presentation. Get caught up in the form. The presentation is going to come along. And yeah, it's just like this beautiful byproduct. You don't have to really. You shouldn't have to try to have good style. You should you should try to be good at surfing. And then once you have that confidence, you know, if you see a photo or catch a surf line, rewind. If you can see that far and you happen to notice that your your hands are bent at the wrist and going in instead of out, or you happen to notice that your fingers are wide apart, you could pull them in and it looks better, but it also centers and stacks you. You start feeling more stacked over your board, and once you start doing that, it starts improving. Your style just starts improving. And, um, it's interesting that tube riding, this is what we talked about with David the other day, I think. Or maybe we didn't, I can't remember, but he someone I was talking to you about. It's interesting that almost all good tube writing has good style. Most of it you You rarely see someone with really hideous style getting as sick barrel. Yeah. Michael Frampton: So yeah, because the, the, the the wave will hit them in the butt with their post dance. They just don't they don't fit in their ugly. Devon Howard: Yeah I think it's true. He's a lesson there that can be applied to other maneuvers like but but it's not always true. That good tube style now equates to this beautiful style of the face. You'll see what doesn't fall apart. Um. Why is that? I don't know exactly. Maybe the. I think one thing that could help with style, um, from a technique standpoint, is, um, don't rush your surfing. I've noticed, like, folks that, remember we were talking earlier about breaking trim, um, and seeing people that are trying to wiggle. They're sort of swaying. A lot of times it's the upper body that's swaying when that's not really helping them in any way. It's not benefiting the the ride. It's causing the board to lift out of the water and side to side motion, typically. And now you're breaking the trip. Now in a short board. A short board needs to be side to side, but it's also got to be pushed so that it's it's building momentum in a forward fashion. The people that are not very good are kind of not going anywhere, because they don't understand that. They're just sort of wiggling their arms and breaking the trim. Devon Howard: Um, and I think if you just. Yeah, just like think about being a little bit more quiet, um, and, and being a little bit more quiet means you're not in a big hurry like you don't if you're not at a level where you need to try to get eight maneuvers in the wave, don't do it. Take take your time and get the two really nice maneuvers and those will feel really good. Be patient off the bottom when you're. Let's start from the beginning. You go and you paddle in. You go to do a bottom turn. Just be there in that moment with that bottom turn. Don't be thinking about the four moves you want to do down the line, because now it becomes this rut here. You're hurrying up the surfing, and now you're kind of like screwing up the pace of the ride. You're screwing up the pace of the wave. And when you do that, now you're out of sync. When you're out of sync, it doesn't feel or look good. So I think the best advice to like, how do I get good stop, start with the foreign and don't rush your surfing. Devon Howard: Don't try to contrive it. Don't try to Like I'm gonna have. Make sure my hands are up here and I'll go like this. And I'm looking backwards and going, okay, that's go. You do you. But you know, that's not helping you surf better. Michael Frampton: Yeah, yeah. You can you can be quick without being rushed. Devon Howard: Exactly. Michael Frampton: Like like a drummer that's drumming at 160 beats per minute. If they're ahead of the beat slightly. It sounds rushed, but if they're on the beat, it's in time. It's rhythm and they're nice and relaxed. They're still fast. They're just not rushed, utterly. And it's interesting you mentioned, like the hands curled and like this. If your hands are curled in like this, you will feel scared. Your physiology affects your emotions. That's a scared posture. That's a protective posture. So if you forcefully open up your hands, like Tony Robbins says, stand up tall and and straight and relaxed, you will feel better. But if you force yourself to smile, you will feel better inside. So I think that, you know, a bit of video analysis and analyzing your own style can actually and changing it can actually make surfing feel better as well. But, um, I love those tips. You just, um, said and it was a good summary and it's a great place to end. Devin, thank you so much. Devon Howard: All right. I hope we, uh, made some sense there. It's fun to talk about it, because I've felt this stuff for a long time, but I don't really ever talk about it. And it's only just in recent times. And, um, I gotta thank Scott Hulett from The Surfer's Journal for getting the gears going in my mind of how to think about this stuff. Um, it's fun to share it, so I hope people get some value out of this conversation. Michael Frampton: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, we can if you come up with more thoughts on it, let me know. We get you back on and we'll expand because it's an important topic. Devon Howard: Well, we're, um, we're in the middle of some fin placement on a mid lane, so I got to get back down there. So I also got this, um, dust down here. Michael Frampton: All right. Thanks, Devin. I'll let you write. You get back to it. Devon Howard: All right. Thank you. Michael. See you.Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast Devon Howard On Surf Mastery Podcast

A new book from an influential psychologist explains that when it comes to mentoring, educating or parenting teenagers, making them feel respected is key. Dr. David Yeager, Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin and the cofounder of the Texas Behavioral Science and Policy Institute discusses his new book, 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. Plus, listeners call in to talk about their strategies for motivating the young people in their lives.*This segment is guest-hosted by Kousha Navidar

JLP Mon 8-5-24 Female Monday! Hr 1 Last BQ: People love emptiness. Clip: Single mother cries on camera. Calls: Trump vs NABJ woman, New BQ: Suffer consequences? Hr 2 Supers: Wisdom. Calls… Seth, 26: Family trip in Switzerland or band gig in Arlington? Living with grandma… Hr 3 Calls: Seth continues: Bad relationship with dad. Sarah is a ball earth denier! Erica: Nightmares. Dana: Stop idolizing thoughts! Darrell argued with a Bible thumper. Supers… Last week's Biblical Question: Do you love the emptiness of not knowing who you are? (Most do!) NEW Biblical Question: Do you suffer the consequences of your actions? TIMESTAMPS (0:00:00) HOUR 1 (0:03:33) Church, wisdom, BQ: You love the emptiness… New BQ! (0:11:42) MHM, Female Monday, Angry person: Evil society! (0:19:18) Loving misery! Single mother, egotistical female. An act! (0:34:12) JASON, Buffalo: Trump corrected the NABJ woman; Speaking fast (0:39:58) BRANDON, Canada: BQ: Consequences (0:43:36) ARI, Canada, 33yo father of daughters: Beta! Good parents? (0:48:51) ARI: Overcome anger? (0:51:28) Supers (0:55:00) NEWS … HOUR 2 (1:05:16) Supers: Wisdom won't impose; Jason agree? S immoral with ex? (1:15:06) DEAN, SC, went to DC; thoughts on Israel war? BQ, TFS (1:22:01) SETH, VA, 26: Family trip or band gig? Live w grandma, outta gf's, pot (1:32:06) Announcements: PunchieTV live 2 PM PT, Joel Friday… (1:36:01) JLP and Joel Friday: Men providers for women?! (1:41:06) SETH: Mother bought ticket! When you gonna grow up? (1:49:16) SETH: Not praying, Dad cheated on mom way back. He's weak. (1:54:00) NEWS … HOUR 3 (2:02:36) SETH: Dad on adderall, "I'm depressed" … "mind palace" (2:10:05) SARAH, AZ: Not a spinning ball! Hake… Stars stand still?! the Bible (2:31:26) s/o Sarah. Announcements: PunchieTV (2:34:07) ERICA, CO: Nightmare… Stay present; Megan Thee Stallion-Kamala (2:38:16) DANA, WA: mother, mess… (2:44:03) DANA: Stop idolizing thoughts, they're your god! (2:46:31) DARRELL, TX: Argued w/ Bible thumper, "Jesus is God." Don't argue w/ Devil! (2:49:21) Supers: BQ, Trump… Anger (2:55:33) Closing: Forgive

Welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast, where we delve into the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the art of mastering the surf. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Matt Parker from Album Surf to discuss the intricacies of surfboard shaping, the evolution of surf culture, and the joys of riding different types of boards.Matt Parker is a seasoned surfer and shaper from Southern California who started crafting surfboards in his garage in 2001. Now, Album Surf is one of the largest surfboard companies, known for its diverse range of high-quality boards. Matt's philosophy on surfboard design emphasizes the harmonious blend of curves and how they interact with the water, aiming to make every board feel like an extension of the surfer's feet and mind. Episode Highlights:The Origins of Album Surf: Matt shares how he started shaping surfboards in his garage in 2001 and grew Album Surf into a renowned company.Philosophy of Surfboard Design: Discussing his unique approach to shaping, Matt explains the importance of creating boards that blend seamlessly with the water.Surfing in Southern California vs. New Zealand: A comparison of surf conditions and the surfing culture in these two iconic locations.The Evolution of Surfboard Variety: Exploring the trend of surfers, including professionals, moving away from high-performance shortboards to experimenting with various types of boards.Educational Insights: Michael and Matt discuss the importance of riding different boards to improve surfing skills and the misconceptions many surfers have about the type of board they should use.Personal Anecdotes and Experiences: Matt and Michael share personal stories about their favorite boards and memorable surfing experiences.Key Quotes:"The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet and your mind." - Matt Parker"Are you actually having fun? That's what it should be about, not just projecting competency and coolness in the lineup." - Matt Parker"It's the best time to be alive as a surfer because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past." - Matt ParkerFollow Matt Parker:Instagram: @albumsurfLinkedin: matt-parker-7877a17Website: albumsurf.comDon't forget to visit our new website for a free PDF download outlining Michael's top five insights from the show, and reach out if you know anyone at YouTube to help resolve access issues!Enjoy the episode and happy surfing!Full Show Transcript:Matt Parker- Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's guest is Matt Parker from album serf. But before we get into that, a couple of housekeeping items. Firstly, Serf Mastery has a new website, and included on that on the front page is a free PDF download outlining my top five insights from the show and the last eight years or so of focusing on improving my own surfing. Um, so go ahead and download that puppy. Also, does anyone know anyone on YouTube? I have been denied access to my YouTube account and have exhausted all other avenues and have had a dead end. So if anyone knows anyone at YouTube, please reach out. Mike at Serf mastery.com or you can DM me on Instagram as well. Onto the show. Today's guest, like I said, is Matt Parker from album surf. Matt is a surfer from Southern California, and he started shaping surfboards from his garage back in 2001. And now album surf is one of the largest, uh, surfboard companies around. Uh, they specialize in all types of boards. And let me read a little quote from Matt's website, which sort of summarizes the way he thinks about surfboards. This is a quote from Matt. The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet. And your mind is so interesting. There shouldn't be any rules about what a surfboard looks like. I love that quote and you would have seen there's so many pros that when they aren't surfing on tour, they end up on these boards, including one of my favorite surfers of all time, Margo. Yes, one of the best free surfers around. Brendan Marginson is well worth a follow on Instagram as well. He started writing Matt's boards. Anyway, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Matt Parker from album surf. Com two.Matt Parker- How are things? Uh, how are things in New Zealand?Michael Frampton - Are things going swimmingly?Matt Parker- Always there. So you live in the prettiest place on Earth. How could it not?Michael Frampton - Oh, yeah. You're not wrong. Although I have to admit, I do miss California.Matt Parker- Did you have spent time out here before you lived here or just.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I lived in, uh, I lived in Point Dume Malibu for four years. Oh, cool. So I was obviously in a little bit of a bubble surfing Little doom every day, but, uh, you know, the weather, the weather alone in Southern California, I kind of felt like it was a bit monotonous. After four years there, I almost missed winter. But having come back to New Zealand and actually experiencing the four seasons, I take California any day.Matt Parker- Yeah, it's big news. When it rains here. It's like, yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, no one can drive in the rain in California.Matt Parker- No. Definitely not, definitely not.Michael Frampton - And then, of course you can't. Well, you're not supposed to go in the water either.Matt Parker- Uh, so. So whereabouts in New Zealand? What part are you at? Like, where do you surf at and all that?Michael Frampton - I'm in a place called Hawkes Bay, which is on the east coast of the North Island. There's nowhere really famous surf wise around here. The surf is pretty average around here, actually. We have a mass. Uh, continental shelf. So the swell comes in with a, uh, just with almost no energy left in it unless it's a certain period that seems to sneak through. Um, so, yeah, around here is not so good for surfing, to be honest. I came back here to, you know, raise the kids and I think, yeah, that sort of thing.Matt Parker- But there's pretty drivable though, right? I mean, you can get. Oh yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know if you're willing to drive um then yeah you can get waves, probably get good waves almost every day. Uh, in New Zealand actually, if you're willing to drive and put up with a little bit of weather.Matt Parker- Mhm. Not afraid of a little wind. Right. Find the blowing the right way. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Well that's another big thing is I remember in Southern California so many days there's just no wind.Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - Where you don't really get that in New Zealand maybe the first two hours of the day there's not much wind, but you'd never get a day where it's glassy until midday, like in Southern California. That's rare here.Matt Parker- Yeah. That's like the prototypical dreamy Southern California fall day where it's kind of glass a little bit offshore in the morning and kind of glassy and nice and sunny and warm all day with fun combo swells. That's kind of the ideal. It's like that a lot. I'm down in San Clemente. It's pretty clean down here, too. We live like a little valley, kind of, uh, that kind of keeps the wind cleaner here. I don't know if it's just protected a little bit from some of the, you know, more beach break spots up in Huntington and Newport, all those spots. But, um.Michael Frampton - Yeah. No, I, I've spent a little bit of time down your way as well. The Surf lowered and I got to interview Archie on my way down there and I spent some time, um, I love surfing Swami's and just that whole Encinitas area. Spent some time down there?Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - And, uh, what opened? Part of what I wanted to talk about today was, obviously surfboards. But I remember we interviewed Devon Howard, and so I got to surf with Devon and I was surfing this like it was a Stu Jensen 94. And I would just paddle. I would just paddle right out the back as far as you can at Little Doom and surf it like Sarno, almost just catch the swell and just get long, big sweeping rides. And Devon's like, you should just be on a glider. And I was like, what's a glider? And then so I just, I just went out and bought an 11 foot Josh Hall, and that's pretty much all I surf all of the time.Matt Parker- Even further out. You weren't even like another hundred yards out would catch it even out the back. Yeah. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Yeah. And then I'm always swapping around boards. But that 11 foot board just taught me so much about surfing. Just the sheer volume and weight and size of the board. Just you have to think about reading the waves so differently and about you know, your the space around you with other people so differently. And then when you finally do jump back on a board, a short board or whatever, I found it so much easier and more fun and easier to sort of be present after having learnt how to surf such a big surfboard. Yo. Have you experienced anything similar with playing around with lots of different boards?Matt Parker- Yeah, I, um, I, obviously I make boards and so I'm always writing something different. You know, most of the time it's rare that I ride the same board two days in a row. Um, and so I'm very used to, like the initial paddle out where, um, I, I can't try too hard, you know what I mean? I kind of have to just. Feel what the board is going to do and just kind of be open to what it feels like once I'm dropping in and just kind of riding the wave. And so it makes me, um, yeah, it's just a good little lesson every time because you can't, you can't force it. And so, uh, you remain a little bit relaxed and not try to do too much, and then you kind of feel it out in every wave is kind of like a you're learning a little bit more about what the board wants to do and what line it wants to take, and trying to figure out where the gas pedal is. And, and, uh, so that's like the discovery part of surfing for me because I surf, I tend to surf the same place every day. And it's a point break down near, uh, lowers and it's kind of a similar wave, but it's kind of a sectional point break that offers some variety. But it's the same place. You know, I'm surfing in the same spot all the time. And so the variety of boards, um, just kind of changes up. Um, it kind of removes expectations sometimes. I think sometimes if you have a board, you've written a ton and you're kind of like, oh, this is the kind of surfing I want to go do. And these are the, you know, these are the turns I'm going to do or whatever. And when you're surfing a little bit more blind to what the board is going to allow you to do, it just kind of, um, keeps you from having expectations. And then you're kind of, uh, you just find fun in different ways and new experiences every time you surf.Michael Frampton - So I think that really good top level surfers are doing that on a much more refined and accurate level because they're always so close to where the wave is breaking. There's so much in the source and they're feeling all those little bumps and nooks and obviously those sorts of boards at that speed are ridiculously sensitive. So if they're not tuned in to that, it's just not going to happen. Whereas you and I are surfing bigger boards a little further away from the power source, we kind of can get away with not being tuned in, but when we do, they're aware.Matt Parker- Yeah, their awareness level is so next level, so high. I like the little nuances and they can feel a lot of they can and can't always communicate verbally, but they definitely know what they're feeling and experiencing in a different way than most regular people.Michael Frampton - Yeah. You know, what I found that's really [00:10:00] interesting is, all of the pros, well, not all of them. A lot of the pros, when you see them out free surfing or when they take a break off tour, then they're not riding high performance shortboards. You know, Josh Kerr is a great example. Um, you know, even Steph Gilmore and Kelly Slater with fire waves just riding different boards as soon as there's not a camera and a judge looking at them, they're like, I'm on this board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down to the local beach and it's waist high and onshore and it's 11 seconds and there's people out there on toothpicks pumping and getting angry. But the pro even the pros when they're surfing good waves, they're not on those high performance short boards. Are you seeing a similar trend overall in Southern California?Matt Parker- Uh, yeah. I mean, well, specifically with everybody that all the, all the guys and gals I make boards for. But no, no one that rides for us really does contest surfing. Most everyone is just kind of free surfing. And so they're definitely on the track of surfing, whatever feels good and experiencing a lot of different things. But yeah, Josh is a perfect example. I don't think he's touched a thruster since his last heat up pipe, honestly, when he retired and that was probably five years ago or something like that. Even in good waves and every kind of wave, whether he's in Indo or wherever it is, he's always writing something different. And uh, I think obviously like high performance shortboards surf. Amazing. We all love to watch surfing. We love watching contests and, you know, the sport of it all. It's always exciting and entertaining and all that. But I think that type of board, um, directs you to one type of surfing. There's, you know, like everyone's trying to kind of surf the ideal way that that board kind of pushes you to. And the judging and the contest structure is kind of, um, positioned around that ideal as well. So I think, um, when you remove that, that box that you're trying to operate in and you don't have to do the same turns and all that, you know, you're just freed up to do whatever you want to do. That's always going to be a more fun option. And for me personally, I am someone who makes boards, it's true. That's my favorite thing, is to see, uh, people that can surf at a world class level, see them surf a lot of different boards and see the different places those boards can go when it's put under the feet of very, very talented people. Because, um, because for the most part, you know, the most, most of the surf media, the most surf contests, you see these very high level surfers riding very similar type of equipment. So.Michael Frampton - Um, yeah, I've always had this analogy in terms of car racing, whereas the pros in a contest, they're in a finely tuned formula one that's customized for their style. Right. And then for some reason, we want to go race around the local racetrack, and we think we need to be in one of those cars. And yeah, sure, that when the average driver is in a high performance car, yes, you can drive it around the track, but man, it's going to be bumpy. It's going to be shaking if you're not constantly turning the car. It's just not going to be as fun as getting in a V8 supercar that's nowhere near as fast or fine tuned, but is a little more. It's got a little more given it still goes fast. So that's what I'm wondering. You see these pros, when they're surfing outside of the contest, they don't necessarily want to be in a finely tuned formula one. They just want to be in a V8 supercar and just have a little less pressure and a little more give. How does that analogy stack up for you? The car racing one?Matt Parker- Well, I like to me surfing really is about the feeling, right? And like the tactile feeling of driving a car that's fast and that wants to go and that you're feeling it. And there's a little bit of like, uh, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to crash right away, you know, like a regular driver. If they went behind the F1 car, they're probably going to crash pretty quick because they just can't handle it. Right. It's too technical to drive all that kind of stuff. So you get into something that has a better feel. But it is about the feeling. And you know, ultimately that's what we're chasing every time we surf. That's why we want to get another wave, is because you want to get that feeling again. And uh, and so the same with the pros that can surf at the highest level. You know, they're chasing the feeling the contest is like the job side of it. You know, it's ticking the box I feel in to win and do all that. But if they're freed from that, they're chasing the feeling of going fast and finding a tube and not having to fit in as many turns as they as they need to just to get the score, but to actually do the turn where the wave is, allowing them to or not, or just ride the wave.Michael Frampton - So that makes sense. Well, yeah, because I'm always dumbfounded when you see so many surfers spending so much time and money on taking these high performances. You know, they watch stab in the dark and they want to buy the latest version of the ten short boards that they already own. It really doesn't make much sense to me. And I think things are changing, but there certainly is still a large percentage of surfers that fit in that category. Uh, do you think it's trending the other way with companies like yourself and even, you know, Channel Islands are broadening their range of boards? Um, I.Matt Parker- Think it's for me, it definitely is the best time to be alive, to be a surfer, because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past, and you really can ride anything. When I was when I was young, as a teenager in the 90s, surfing, it really was you. Everyone kind of had the same board. I rode the same board, no matter the conditions. It was like a six, three, 18.5, two and a quarter rockered out shortboard no matter what. If it was one foot, if it was six foot, whatever. So nowadays you really do like I think everyone's kind of experienced like, oh yeah, I can have a little bit more of a diverse quiver and it's okay if I'm riding a fish one day or I'm riding like a little stretched out worm another day, or if I'm riding a shortboard one day or whatever, it's like there's a little bit more, um, versatility and variety and, um, so it's a it's a great time to be alive, to be a surfer in that way. I think, um, uh, I just think that, yeah, there's just less rules, less rules about it, more enjoyment.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. I guess the question is, the impetus of the show is education and inspiration for better surfing, really. And I guess when I take on a client myself personally, um, one of the first things I say to them is like, why do you want to? Why are you on that board? Like, this isn't you're not surfing double overhead barrels. Like that's what their board's made for. Like just try.Matt Parker- Yeah, I think I've said this before, but I think a lot of, um, uh, just the culture of surfing is a little bit like, no, everyone wants to look competent. Right. And so a lot, a lot of surfing culture is the perception that you put out there. Right? Like, I'm the cool guy. I got the right board, I got I'm not a kook, you know, I'm wearing the right trunk. So I've got the right wetsuit and I've got the right traction pad and whatever it is, I've got the cool label. This is what I'm, you know, because a lot of people are more concerned with what, how others perceive them in the lineup, because sometimes, you know, how you're perceived in the lineup, gives you status and gives you, you know, if you're competent, you can kind of you get more waves and you get a little bit more respect from people around you. And so there's a little bit of a game that people play in trying to, um, project competency and cool and a cool factor. And I'm not a kook. And so sometimes people put too much weight on that and they're more concerned with what they look like on the beach or in the car park than they actually are.Matt Parker- And then the enjoyment they're actually getting out of it themselves, you know, like, are you actually having fun? If you mentioned like the guys that are flapping around and having a miserable time. There's always people out in the water that are having you kind of wonder sometimes. Do you actually like, what are you actually getting out of this? Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And, uh, I don't know, every different stroke for different folks. People get different things out of it. And maybe that little social status thing is more important than the actual surfing. And I, I think that's obviously short term thinking because and it's like, that's a hollow chase that you're after because you're never going to be satisfied with that. And you shouldn't be. I don't think you should be spending too much time pursuing things for the approval of others. You know, surfing is kind of a solitary pursuit, right? You're you're the one that's doing it, and you're the one that's riding the wave, and you're the one that's having that moment and feeling it. If you're doing it for what other people think about you, I think you're missing. You're missing the point, you know?Michael Frampton - So, yeah, well, I definitely fit it in that category for a while. Um, we all do.Matt Parker- At some point, you know, in a little bit. We all do. You know everyone? No. Like I said, everybody who surfs wants to look competent. Kelly Slater doesn't want to be a kook. He wants to be the cool guy in the lineup. We all kind of have that feeling to a certain degree.Michael Frampton - Um, and there's something to be said, you know, surfing that high performance shortboard in all types of conditions you will develop a very intimate relationship with that surfboard. And when the waves do turn on, you're going to be pretty used to it. And then, you know, you're probably going to have a better surf on that day. Um, but was there a point in your surfing [00:20:00] life where that changed, like where you started riding different boards, more volume, etc.?Matt Parker- Um, yeah. Like I said, I grew up in the like, I started surfing in the late 80s, early, and then through the 90s, I was a teenager and then in the early 90s and, uh, back then it was really about just being competent enough and you just riding what everybody else wrote. And that was really all that was available was just kind of your standard shortboards for, um, I guess for, for me as, like a general public, you know, not in, you know, I didn't have any my dad surfed a little bit when he was young, but I didn't I didn't come from like a long line of family surfing and all that kind of stuff. And so probably I, I started getting curious, more curious about surfboards. Um, and that's kind of what led me into shaping a little bit is that I was interested. I, you know, you get back then this is pre-internet really, you know, but you would get little. To see different little videos. You'd see different things that were just like, oh, you know, like, that looks fun. That looks like more fun. I was surfing Newport Beach. It's two foot closeouts most of the time it's not good. It's, you know, it's hard. Like surfing is hard out there and you're riding equipment that's bad.Matt Parker- So you just have a lot of frustrating sessions and you just like, just gotta, you know, just you would see videos, you'd see guys in good waves. And so that was always like I was interested in, um, trying different boards to get a different experience. You know, I was competent enough, but I was by no means pro or anything like that. I was good enough out in the lineup to get waves and to surf and fine, but it was not. But I always felt like those boards held me back, too, you know, just the normal boards, because they kind of, you know, they you just have like, it can't be this frustrating all the time. So the interest in different boards. So I would go to different shops and I would want to get a board that was different and I could never really find one. You know, it can never really find what I was looking for. And then, um, even when I would order custom boards, you know, from local shapers, you would try to explain what I had in my brain, what I was like trying to go for. And it was never it never like it was probably my fault for not communicating that clearly what I was really after, but it never was it.Matt Parker- And so I was, uh, in design school and art school and taking all these like, sculpture and drawing and painting classes and stuff. And so it was just kind of a natural extension to get a blank and some tools and kind of experiment and just try to make something without any restrictions of what it had to look like, because I was just fooling around, you know. So that was probably the, the, the interest. And that was probably at the time when, like, um, things were coming more online and you had more access to just different things other people were doing. And so you could kind of see, uh, you know, your world was kind of opened up as far as, like, oh, there's like other shapers and all these places making different things. And there are a lot of cool things out there that I just hadn't really experienced and I didn't have. I had never tried or felt or seen in person, but like, it just kind of expanded what was possible. And, the interest level and surfing really grew. And my fun level expanded too, because it was like everything was opened up more.Michael Frampton - Um, and then it sounds like the developer or the birth of album surfboards was quite organic. You saw essentially a gap in the market, right?Matt Parker- Yeah. Why? Initially, for years I was shaping boards with no, no intention of it being a thing, being a business or anything. It was more I just wanted to try different things. And, um, the creation, the creation part of it was really fun, like just designing and trying something and the tactile thing of making something with your hands and then seeing it finished and then going and writing it was very addicting. It was very, um, yeah, just kind of opened my mind a lot. And it was just it's just it made, um, the exploration process of trying different boards, satisfying even if the surf was bad. So in the old days, you know, as a kid when I was a teenager and you're trying to just, like, do all the moves you see in the videos and you're having frustrating sessions because the waves aren't good most of the time, and you're writing boards that aren't good. You just surfing wasn't as fun. And so when I was, when I was making boards and exploring and trying these different types of shapes, just going out and seeing that it worked and making it like get down the line and get the feeling of speed that I was kind of envisioning with it was satisfying.Matt Parker- So the waves didn't have to be good, and my surfing didn't have to be amazing. And I was still, like, very satisfied and validated and surf stoked. I was inspired to go make another board and surf more because I wanted to try out these things that I was, um, that I was playing around with, but. I did that for years. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand boards before it was even, like a real, um, business I was doing. I was a designer by trade, and so I was doing like graphic design work, and that was kind of what my, uh, employment or job focus was, and was making boards was like this side, this just kind of creative art project on the side that I could just have fun with and I could usually like, um, sell, sell one to pay for another one and, you know, find it, you know, put it up like in the used rack at a shop and sell it on consignment. Just turn it over enough to learn the craft without any pressure of having to be a professional at doing it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. So. So did your entrepreneurial journey begin with the album agency?Matt Parker- Yeah, exactly. So that was I was running my own business and just doing client work, client design work that way. And um, the building the surfboards and kind of treating it like my own little micro brand was kind of also an extension of the graphic design side. So I was able to kind of like, you know, you're doing you're doing work on for clients in industries that you're not really interested in, you know, and I was like, here's, here's a chance for me to play around with design and create it and kind of like make this a fun little, like. You know, brand for fun without any, you know, strings attached. Yeah. That's pretty.Michael Frampton - And what inspired you to make the leap? To turn the surfboards into the main business?Matt Parker- Uh, there was just, uh. Well, I was doing it at night, so I would be working, like, in the day, like client work and, um, uh, designing and and, uh, getting projects done. And then I'd go home and have dinner with the family and then put the little kids to bed and go in my garage or go in my backyard and shape at night. And I was doing this a lot. So I was working a lot. I was working a full time plus job and then shaping on the side and demanding just kind of like, you know, we're just kind of we would get out, you know, I was making boards that were probably interesting and that resonated with other people that they hadn't seen either. And there was something unique about what we were doing. And so, um, the age of when we are, you know, in this last 15 years where things are just more accessible and people can find you easier, you know, it just kind of the awareness of what I was doing got out there probably faster than if it was 30 years ago. No, the people in my little community would have known. But then. So then people would just want to order a board, and then that just kind of gets to this, uh, point where, uh, the demand kind of exceeds like the time on the other side. And so just kind of realized like, oh, there's, uh, I think and by that point, too, I had made enough boards and had enough awareness of, like, just the surf industry and kind of where things, where things were that you could kind of see opportunities, uh, or openings in the market. And like, here we have something different to say, and there's people that are interested in what we're doing. So yeah, let's make a little run at it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Well you mentioned supply and demand. I mean that is why business exists. So obviously the culture is changing. You know, people are more interested in, uh, you know, different shapes. And, uh, I would say a higher level of longevity. You get a much more longevity out of a surfboard like yours as opposed to a pop out, um, white shortboard for sure.Matt Parker- I think the other thing, too, was I made boards. I made some boards for some good surfers, some pros and things like that, and they worked really well. And so there was kind of like this validation of like, oh, okay. Like, I mean, I knew like I was like I said, I was competent enough to know that they worked for my level of surfing, and I was having an amazing time at having fun. And my friends were. But then, um, when you when I made some boards for guys that could surf really well, and then they had more fun on that too. It was kind of like, oh, you know, maybe there really is something a little different that we're doing that does work and makes sense of like we should kind of should follow that path because there's, there's something there that hasn't been tapped into yet, and it resonates with guys that can surf at the highest level. So we should kind of pursue that.Michael Frampton - Um, that leads me into a question I have about let's get into your designs a little bit. So. I remember I first got into surfing fish surfboards. I had a Christiansen fish that I used to surf a lot. And then I remember one day the waves turned [00:30:00] on, um, and rising swell. And next thing, next thing you know, I'm surfing almost double overhead waves. And I find man to to be able to surf that fish in those real good solid waves, I would have to move my feet closer to the inside rail to do a bottom turn, and then I go up to do a top turn. It would just slide outside. This is not the right surfboard, but at the same time, I don't want to be surfing a high performance shortboard. And then you look at someone like Josh Kerr surfing the twins men or the, um, insanity. I think it is in the mentor wise in double overhead waves getting barreled and doing airs on what is, I guess, hybrid or alternative high performance shape. Now, is that the kind of board that only he can ride in those waves? Or is it designed so that anyone can have a good time in those overseas waves?Matt Parker- Well, I think there's a misnomer to me, there was always a misnomer in the marketplace that high performance shortboards are for like real surfing and alternative boards are just, you know, for fun or whatever. And, um, I think if you look at the trajectory of surf of surfboards from, you know, longboards logs up into the early 60s, mid 60s to how quickly it progressed and revolutionized, like what people were riding in such a short window of time. There's so many, um, like, design steps along the way and different types of boards along the way that, like, didn't get their full, uh, fleshing out. Right. So there's a lot of ideas in that time and I, I mean, Twin Fins is a perfect example of that. Like where twin fins were really at like their height from, you know, 78 to 81 or something like that, or, you know, 77, like, what is it, 3 or 4 years or something like that, where twin fins were like the, you know, high performance little hot dog board that people were riding and that was with kind of like, I mean, nowadays, like that window of time is a is a blink, you know, three years. It's like most of us have boards that we've surfed for five, six, eight years. You know what I mean? So three years is nothing. And so, you know, you just see like, oh, the fins they were writing, they didn't have enough time to develop the right fins for them, and they didn't have enough time to think about fin placement and, and designing the rail shape and bottom contour to fit like where that goes and like what type of wave that needs to be surfed in and what blanks were available and different glassing, you know, layups and all that.Matt Parker- It was just like it was just too fast. And so, um, I've always felt like, um, alternative boards, twin fins are not, um, like a, a cop out of, like, I'm just I'm just going to screw around. Like, it's like any sort of design, any, any, any place. I'm going to take a surfboard. There's like an intended, uh, performance or design intention for that concept. And so the concept is meant to perform at a high level. It's just a different way of doing it. And um, and so like with Josh, those boards, like he has more fun and more freedom, more speed, they're easier to turn on a twin fin, you know, and so if you can make them and design it to be able to handle any type of wave, there's there's certainly obviously capable and validated by him and others in those types of waves. And so it's it's just a matter of, um, uh, backing it, backing the concept and then proving the concept and then iterating the idea and the concept enough to prove it out and refine it and get it right so that it actually does work in those types of ways.Matt Parker- But I think sometimes when, uh, like, uh, you know, shapers or whatever, if, if they're focused on one thing, if they're focused on high performance shortboards, their version of a twin fin or a fish is like a is not the main design intention. It's almost like a little, it's like a spin off of their shortboard idea. And it's like they take their shortboard idea and they kind of fatten it a little bit and just put two fins in it instead of three and, you know, maybe make it a swallowtail. We'll call it the alternative board. And to me, I'm more focused on the concept of a high performance swim fin that maybe surfs better or is more of an advantage than a shortboard would be in those waves. And so it's like, how would I design it? Where do the fins go? What does that mean for the bottom contour? Like what dimensions are we talking about. You know, and so there's so like the funnest thing about surfing is there's so many variables in the, in the types of waves in the swell and the wind conditions and the interval and the where you're surfing, the type of surfing you want to do. And so there's kind of like these endless rabbit holes of design and conceptual thinking. You can go down and create whatever. And it's so fun too, because I mean, I think surfers should be, should be very grateful and realize how fortunate that we all are.Michael Frampton - That we we we.Matt Parker- Um, participate in this pursuit where we can make all sorts of different things all the time. I mean, if you're like, if you're driving or you're, uh, skiing or whatever it is, it's much more difficult to you're not going you're not going to go make a, a ten different concepts of skis that you're going to go try out every time, every different time you go surfing. But with the surfboards you can make, you know, I can go surf today, have a session out there, get the pros and cons of the Board of Writing. I come back to design something based on that idea, shape it that day, gloss it, and be surfing something next week.Michael Frampton - Mm.Matt Parker- Something that I was intending to design for. That's just like a, it's just a cool thing that we're, we all kind of. And surfing small enough surf industry is small enough that if you're, uh, uh, motivated like you can have access to any of that, it's relatively, you know, for what that is for the for the, uh, access to that kind of R&D and design like options for different types of boards. It's relatively expensive, not super cost prohibitive. You know, if you're if you're into it, if you're committed to it, it's affordable enough. You can, you know.Michael Frampton - Mhm. Yeah I think the importance of a quiver is. Yeah I mean I don't know whether that's why you chose the name album. But you know it makes me think of a good album like Pearl jam ten which is ten really good songs, all with different moods but still the same album. You know, you can sit, you can sit down and listen to the album, or you can sit down and listen to one song and I almost see a. A surfboard quiver is like that. It's, you know, has ten surfboards that are for you, but for the different types of moods and the waves that you're surfing. But it does make me think, because there's also that Swiss Army knife surfboard that kind of does pretty good in most waves and tends to excel in sort of head high. Good waves, for sure. What's that? What's that surfboard for you within your quiver? What would that Swiss army knife board be?Matt Parker- Well, that would probably be like a board I would travel with. Right. Because you're something that you would have that you'd want to have, um, versatility for. And that would probably be like Victor's model. Like a banana. Bunches like a quad, asymmetrical quad. It's kind of a hybrid. It's definitely a performance board, but it definitely is easier to go fast. And it paddles a little bit better. And it turns out to be super easy. And it's versatile in a lot of kinds of ways. Um, it's probably something like that. Um, honestly, uh, if you have the right mindset, though, almost any board in your quiver should be able to fill that slot, I think.Michael Frampton - Yeah, that's a good point.Matt Parker- Yep. It's all I mean, there's a to me there's there's, um, you know, there's sometimes there's people sometimes we all do it where we're no matter what board you're surfing, people try to surf the same way. Right. They have like they're the way I bought them turned. This is my turn. I do, and this is my little re-entry idea. And you'll watch them out there. And it doesn't matter if they're riding their fish or mid length or short board or whatever it is, they kind of surf the same. And uh, that's fine. That's totally fine. But I, I think it's good to, um, be a little bit more open to what the board wants to do and the type of surfing that board is going to allow you to do and, and how it might open up the kind of surfing you do and the enjoyment you get out of that kind of surfing so that it makes you a little bit more versatile in what your approach is like. Victor Bernardo, who writes for us, is like is a really good example of that because I think a lot of times people when they're like when they're building a quiver, they are a little bit too narrow in scope or what like range, they're they're going for like I it happens all the time where I'll have people that they kind of they want their fish and their short board and a twin fin and everything to kind of be all within, like a little volume range, like, here's my leader, here's the leader I [00:40:00] ride, and my boards need to be within 30 to 30 1.5l.Matt Parker- And they try to fit like all their boards. And it's like, I think you're missing out if you're thinking about it in that way. So Victor is this perfect example because he's a young man, 26, 27 years old, the highest level professional surfer can surf as well as anybody in the world. Um. Competed on the show, did all that stuff right. But if you look at his quiver, it is like. From five 0 to 8 zero and everything in between. I mean, obviously he has access to a lot of boards, which helps. It makes it easy to ride a lot of stuff. But still his mindset is like his, if you were just talking about what volume he writes, he writes from 29l to 42l, you know what I mean? So his range is like this and these are all. Different types of what I would call performance sports. So even yesterday or this week we were in Hawaii.Matt Parker- He's still there right now. But we were on the North Shore this past week and he was riding A68 bungee roundtail, which is normal. His normal version is like a five 8 or 5 nine, and he was riding the six eight roundtail version that was plus volume. It was actually one of Brendan Morrison's boards that Margo left there in Hawaii. When Margo went back to Australia, Victor took it out and got a couple amazing waves of pipe, you know, on that on that board. And so it's just I and definitely not limiting his performance, actually enhancing his performance because it was something that unique that he wouldn't have maybe taken out normally, but it just kind of opened up his surfing. And I think if you remain a little bit more, um, open, open to what the board wants to do and what the waves are asking you to do, you will just have more fun. Yeah. Surfing gets to, like you were saying, just like it started right when you're riding the glider and then you go jump onto your shore board, your surfing is better because you're kind of your fundamentals are better. Your timing is a little different. You know, your mindset is a little different.Michael Frampton - So yeah, I think every board you ride opens up. You have to read the waves a little differently and look for different lines. And like you said, your timing has to be better. Or maybe it can be more lax or you're looking for a different type of wave or whatever. So I think it really just helps you to read the ocean better. I think that's the main reason why different surfboards, uh, can improve your surfing when you jump back on your favorite board because you just read the wave with more detail. Writing that glider changed my realization of how big and how fast of a section I can actually make because those boards go ridiculously fast. Um, yeah. And I surprised myself many times with what I could, what section I could get around and that literally translated to surfing other boards. I'm going to try and make that section. I'm going to get a bit lower and stay on the whitewash a bit longer. And lo and behold, surfing that big crazy board just had me making different types of waves and changing my whole perspective on reading the ocean. Um, it sounds like I agree with that. It sounds like Victor Victor needs to go longer as well.Matt Parker- He does. He rides bigger. But I think the point of a querer is to make you surf as much as possible. So no matter what the waves are, you have the right board to have fun that day. And that's really the, to me, the thing that improves you as a surfer the most is water time. So if you're surfing a lot, if you're surfing more days than you're not, you're going to get better. You read the ocean better your time, your timing is better, your strength, your paddle strength is better. All that stuff kind of comes into play the more you surf. And so if you have a quiver that motivates you to want to surf and makes you kind of no matter what the waves are, you're like, oh, I'm stoked to go out today because I have the right board and I'm going to have more fun. And you see those guys struggling and you're having fun and they're miserable. It's like, oh yeah, you made the right choice, and you have the right board to just get out in the water a lot.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think you nailed it that that's that is the point of a quiver. So it's as simple as that. And you're right. I mean, the best thing that ultimately that you can do for your surfing is not only to surf more, but to surf more waves. And if you're on the right surfboard for the condition, you are going to catch more waves when it's knee high. Here at my local point break and there's no one out, I'm I'm literally giddy because I have an 11 foot Josh Hall and no one can compete with that because no one.Matt Parker- How did you ship that thing to New Zealand? How did you get that point there? That's what I want to know.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I know, it.Matt Parker- Just.Michael Frampton -I, I filled a container with all of my stuff. So I've got, I've got my weight, I got my weighing rich nine eight and everything. Everything here. So how. How would you if I just asked you an open question? What is a surfboard?Matt Parker- Uh, well, there's the, you know, it's foam and fiberglass and resin and all that. Right. Uh, but I think it's just it's a tool to allow you to go ride the waves. So whatever that is, it, um, comes in, comes in many forms, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, uh, depending on, you know, the a surfboard for pipeline, like we were where we were at last week is not a surfboard for Upper Trestles, where I surf most every other day. Very, very different tools for those different, different types of waves. And so I think it's a tool that gets you to, to catch a wave and ride a wave. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Simple. How would you describe your current relationship with surfing in the ocean, and how has it evolved over the years?Matt Parker- Um, I surf a lot. To me, it's the most important thing in my job as a designer and shaper and surfboard manufacturer is being in the water as much as I can. So I, I surf 5 or 6 days a week. And, uh, it's kind of a like daily ritual getting out there. And so I surf a lot. Um, I, I'm 47 now, so I'm definitely past my peak of, uh, I've my, my better my best days are behind me as far as, like strength and ability level and all that kind of stuff. But I definitely have more fun surfing now than I ever have in my life. And, uh, I get more enjoyment out of it and I have a better perspective on it. And so, um, you just appreciate different things about sessions that you, you skipped and you missed when you're young and immature. And so, you know, with age comes wisdom. And so I definitely yeah, I appreciate it. Every session I go out I just have a better mindset for, uh, just appreciating the opportunity to go out and surf. I live in a place where I have things like surf boards to ride and just waves most every day that are rideable. It's a real blessing. So I think that my mindset makes me appreciate it more now than ever. So. Mhm.Michael Frampton - Yeah I like that. What's I'm going to go back to. So we talked about the Swiss army, the single board. What if you could take what if you could choose three boards to travel with or just to have what those three boards be.Matt Parker- It's, you know it's funny we were because we're talking about quivers. Right. And I'm actually like, I, I don't have a great quiver because I don't have boards. I hold on to that long. The problem for me is that I'm always, uh, I'm always doing R&D and and working on new models and new boards. And so it's, it's ever changing. So my answer would probably be that if you asked me next month, it would probably be different than it would be a month ago. So it changes all the time. But if I was going to like where we live, going down to Mexico, go down there all the time and surf the points, I would for sure take some form of a fish. I've been riding, um, a version of Asher Pacey's Sunstone with a little hip, and I've been riding it as a quad a bunch lately, and I've been riding it with, um, twin fin like upright twin fins in the lead boxes and little small trailers and the quad trailer boxes, and been having a good old time on that, so I would definitely bring one of those. I'd probably bring a, uh, like a bigger board, like, uh, like one of Margot's models in Vesper or a Delma, which is like a stretched out, kind of like a slot channel. Concave bonds or little bottom quad. I definitely bring one of those. I can hang in good surf, too. And they're really nimble, easy to turn for a big board. I'll ride those six, 8 to 7, 2 to 7, four, seven, six. I have an 80I take out on that all the time. Um, definitely take that. And then I'd probably take something asymmetrical, some sort of a disorder model, which is like my high performance kind of like foolish rails outlines shifted and [00:50:00] or a bungee. Like I was saying, it's probably something to at least like to cover the bases. Yep.Michael Frampton - Okay, cool. I'm taking a whale shark, a Vespa and an insanity.Matt Parker- Oh that's good. That's a good call to the, uh, yeah. The whale shark would tick that glider box for you for sure. Uh, so I.Michael Frampton - Want one so bad just by reading the description. That's it. Yeah.Matt Parker- Uh.Matt Parker- When you're talking about that build up of that section and you're just in so early and you have fun for me, the fun of those boards is that kinetic energy of like, the speed building, like you build the speed and maintain the speed and build the speed some more. And it's just a very satisfying feeling. It's just me and I. We make longboards and I enjoy longboarding. But I prefer it if I'm riding a big bull like a big board. I prefer a glider for a big twin, like a whale shark. I have a little bit more fun just because I. I probably surf more off the back foot than I do in a walking and walking the nose and all that kind of stuff.Michael Frampton - So yeah. Same. Yeah. It's amazing if you, if you got your if you're used to it and you get your timing right, you can step back on an 11 foot board and do a cutback. And like it's so satisfying in the and you're right, it's the main reason the maintenance of the momentum of one of those big boards is such an incredible feeling. And it's amazing what sections you can make. And I've had some of the longest rides ever. Oh, I bet in and on what most people would seem as unmakeable waves just by taking that high line and trusting it. It's uh. Yeah, it's an incredible feeling.Matt Parker- Riding gliders is like it's own form of riding a foil board. It's like you're almost ride those boards. You ride those waves that, um, you know, no one else can really get into depth. Length of ride is insane on those. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it's, um, Joel Tudor says it's the ultimate goal, right? Is Skip Frye.Matt Parker- Oh, yeah, for sure.Michael Frampton - It's the end game.Michael Frampton -Uh, but it's, uh, I mean, I've, I've surfed that board in. I was a few years ago. We had it in Malibu. There's a little doom. There's an outer reef that breaks when you get those, those 18 second northwest swells. I took my glider out there and it was double overhead barreling, and I was like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have bought this. But I managed to get such a high line and set the rail so early that I could just avoid the barrel and still have and still catch the waves and have such a rad time. So there's such versatile boards if you know how to surf them.Matt Parker- And you're doing your own step offs.Michael Frampton - Basically.Matt Parker- Oh it is towed in out the back. Yeah. It's just like being able to paddle that fast. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Oh yeah. And that's the thing. You can pedal around so much. That's what I like about them so much too if you can see a section over there. You can just paddle over to it.Matt Parker- And that board's going to last you forever. 20 years from now, you'll still be searching roughly. You'll have that. You'll have that thing forever. Yeah. Which is special.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Was that so? Obviously it sounds like you've experienced writing. Was that the inspiration for the whale shark writing? Gliders.Matt Parker- Yeah. Just write just just because like I was saying, I'm not like I'm not a longboarder. That's walking on the nose. And you know, I'm more into just trim and glide and that feeling. And obviously you want to have a board that you can ride for us on those longboard days when it's really small and it's just soft and just little open faces. And so that was my preference was to ride that style of board. And so it was. It's just for me it's like an extension of the fish. Obviously it's taking A56 fish and making it ten six and so on. So the same kind of principle is a little bit for me. It's just putting it with a really long rail and with a different, you know, sort of rocker to fit that wave face.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. Just a side note for listeners, if you haven't written a longboard or a log, don't go out and buy a glider. It's, it's get used to a long board first because there are a lot of surfboards. And you're if you don't know how to ride them, you're just going to hurt someone.Matt Parker- You're nine. Four was a perfect little entry point.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now soft tops. I wanted to ask you about soft tips. You guys are making soft tops. I haven't seen or touched or ridden one of your soft tops, but they look quite different to the Cosco or the int style ones. What's your point of difference with soft tops?Matt Parker- We make them in a few different places. We have uh, some that we make that are like injected foam. And so it's where we actually took my shape to board and we made a mold, I shaped a few boards and we made molds off of these finished shaped boards. And that allows you to really put in design detail into that mold. And so like one of them has a little channel bottom, you can put real thin boxes in them. Um, they're obviously not high performance because they're phonies, you know what I mean? But there's a different mindset. There's the right day for that. Even if you surf well, obviously for beginners, they're great because you can surf them into the sand and they just float easy to catch waves. They're kind of a little bit um, they're a little bit slower. So the pacing of them kind of matches the wave when you're just kind of learning to like, ride the trim and ride the like the speed of the wave. So for people, learning is great, but for people that know how to surf, it's like those days when it's closing out and it's on the sand, or you just want to go out and have fun and fool around.Matt Parker- It's something different. So, um, so those ones we do and those are made in the US and there's just like injection foam molded soft tops. And then we also make some in Peru that are, uh, by the surfers in Peru, which are pretty sick. They're kind of more, they've got, um, a foam core and they have stringers and they're kind of like a slick bottom, like, uh, like some of the soft tops, you see. But they actually have like, real shape and they have a better flex to them. And there's real thin boxes. And those are kind of like, uh, a kind of a cool in-between where if you're like a kid or you're someone who's like kind of progressing, it's a great board to kind of progress on because you can actually turn them and you can surf them pretty decently and they're less, you know, less expensive and all that. They're made in a surf country by surfers, which is pretty cool.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I've got a 96 INT that I absolutely love. Um and I've always huh.Matt Parker- Ah It is got really good.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it lasted quite a while actually. It's still going. I actually surfed it every day when I was doing lessons for a long time and then would just end up catching loads of waves on it. I love them so much because it's a boat, right? The nine six int, it's a thick, big surfboard, but because it I think because it flexes so much, it's you can ride it in lots of different types of waves and actually have it actually really turn it much easier than the same amount of surfboard if it was a stiff sort of a is that why? And then you watch Jamie O'Brien surf them and pipe like.Matt Parker- Well, it's just funny.Matt Parker- It's sometimes it looks like he has the right board for them which is insane. He's obviously a.Matt Parker- Freak but that's.Matt Parker- But to me the point of it is, it's like it's a mindset thing. When you're riding those boards, you're kind of like, you're not you're definitely not trying to win a contest. When you're riding one of those, you're definitely going out there to have fun and kind of goof around, which is really good. This is a good reset for surfing, I think, as you kind of, you know. You can't try too hard. We just.Matt Parker- Got out there and.Matt Parker- It's much easier to kind of give, give a wave away to someone else. You're not you're not going to be back paddling people to get waves when you're on those. And so you're it's just it's a good mindset to reset and have fun on them. And that's why it's amazing how many sessions you have on those where you have a lot of fun, because your mindset is in a good place and you're not you're not overdoing it, you're not overcooking it, and you're better. Perspective.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, I guess you're not too worried about it cracking. If you miss time, something close to the sand or the board hits you a little bit, it's not as bad. Yeah, I've always enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed the novelty of riding a soft top. And it's stoked to see you guys making some, some, some more refined looking ones.Matt Parker- Yeah. I mean, the idea is obviously still there. The point is that they're soft tops. But if we can kind of come at it from a different angle, there's no need for us to go to the same factory that Wave storm or Cat surf makes and then just put different graphics on a soft top. Those already exist, right? Like we don't need to just have our that's just another commodity. We don't, we don't need to make another one of those. But if we can like if we can make something that's a little unique or that offers something different from everything else that's out there, and it gives a different feeling and we explore different things, then cool. We'll try it out and we'll give it a go. So.Michael Frampton - Um, cool. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I got one more question I want to leave you with before we sign off, which is what's your best and worst surf advice? That you ever received?Matt Parker- Yeah, I would see. I would say me too. But the worst would be.Matt Parker- I mean, the. Matt Parker- Best would definitely be like we've been talking about is like, uh, I've said this and I've said this before, this is kind of like my running theme a little bit as far as, like, choose the board, you know, when you're going to decide what you're going to ride. Like, think about if there was no one else on the beach and no one else is out in the water like you're talking about that day when you're happy and you're the only one out. Like, what would you actually ride? What do you actually really have the most fun surfing on? And that could be a short board. It could be a high performance short board. You could be. That's the day you take it out because you're not, you know, you're kind of kooky on it, but you want to get good and that's what you want to get out of it. But to me it's like I pick the board that if I don't do it to for the approval of others, you know, like choose what you really want to ride and what you really want to experience and just go do that and go have fun and I think you'll have the most fun. Um, I'm trying to think, like what? Uh, maybe that, um, you need to have an epoxy board for a wave pool. That's the worst.Matt Parker- That's that. That's it. I don't know how applicable that is, but.Michael Frampton - I think it's going to be more and more applicable very soon.Matt Parker- Well, I think and maybe that goes in line with what I think there are in surfing. There shouldn't be hard and fast rules. You know, sometimes there's like these perceptions and there's hard and fast rules like this is what you got to do and this is the way you gotta do it. And I don't like surfing. Doesn't have to like who says who don't have to do.Matt Parker- It's that way.Michael Frampton - Yeah. There's a famous surfer I can't remember. Is it Kelly Slater? I think he surfs a door.Michael Frampton - Yeah, you can. You can surf anything. Even an old door.Matt Parker- Exactly, exactly. I know a table. I think he surfs a table, like upside down.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And isn't there a video with Taj Burrow and Chris Ward all surfing, all sorts of objects. Yeah. So yeah, there's no rules, right?Matt Parker- Like, why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? We want to have fun. Just be out in the ocean. So.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Exactly. Uh, well, Matt, thank you so much for your time, man. Appreciate it.Matt Parker- Yeah.Matt Parker- Great to chat with you. Cool.Michael Frampton - All right. Simple as that. Thanks, man.Matt Parker- Yeah. Good to meet you.Michael Frampton - You too. Guy Kawasaki on the Surf Mastery Podcast