Podcasts about denominations

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Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Todd Wilson, co-founder of Exponential and a leader at Multipliers, where he helps churches and ministry leaders pursue multiplication and greater Kingdom impact. Todd has spent decades studying church planting, disciple-making, and movements, and his latest book, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward, explores the evolution of the American church growth movement and what it may mean for the future. Are churches working harder while reaching fewer people? Have our systems become better at producing activity than disciples? Todd challenges leaders to examine the operating system beneath modern church ministry and consider what needs to change if we want to see true reproduction and multiplication. We have a disciple-making problem. // For years, Todd has championed the goal of seeing more churches reproduce. Research once showed that fewer than 5% of U.S. churches were reproducing, and while that number has improved, multiplication remains rare. But Todd believes church planting is ultimately an outcome of a deeper issue: most churches do not have a functional culture of disciple-making. If disciples aren’t reproducing disciples, churches will struggle to reproduce churches. Reproduction has to become generational. // Multiplication begins when reproduction continues beyond the first generation. One disciple makes another disciple, who then makes another, and the process keeps going. The same is true with churches. A church plants a church, which plants another church, which plants another. Once reproduction moves across multiple generations, addition becomes multiplication and the potential for movement begins to emerge. The church growth system has slowly changed. // Todd’s research traces roughly 75 years of church growth history, beginning with missionary Donald McGavran. McGavran originally studied why some churches on the mission field grew while others did not and developed principles aimed at helping missionaries reach more people. Over time, those ideas moved into the American church and blended with seeker-sensitive ministry, the megachurch movement, purpose-driven strategies, multisite, church planting networks, and other innovations. Much good came from these eras, but Todd believes the system gradually shifted toward institutional and programmatic growth. Good intentions can still create the wrong outcomes. // Todd is careful not to blame previous generations of church leaders. Many of the people who shaped modern church ministry were deeply evangelistic and sincerely wanted to reach people. Yet over time, the dominant definition of success increasingly became bigger attendance, larger programs, and expanding organizations. The unintended result is a consumer-driven model that can attract people effectively but struggles to produce disciples who reproduce. The angst leaders feel is real. // Todd hears a growing frustration among pastors: churches are spending more money, employing more staff, and working harder while seeing less fruit. Even churches that appear successful can sense something isn’t right beneath the surface. Todd believes much of that angst comes from trying to produce multiplication through an operating system designed primarily for addition. Naming the problem is an important first step toward changing it. Leaders must model what they want reproduced. // Todd believes transformation has to begin with senior leaders. If disciple-making is going to become the church’s growth engine, lead pastors and elders must personally participate in a simple, reproducible disciple-making process. Rather than merely preaching about discipleship, pastors should be able to name the people they are actively discipling and allow those relationships to shape the way they lead and teach. Keep the process simple and reproducible. // Whatever model a church chooses, Todd believes it must be simple enough for anyone to reproduce. The goal isn’t another sophisticated program but a way of following Jesus that can move naturally from person to person. The same approach should work for a lead pastor, a volunteer, or even a teenager. Simplicity increases the possibility of multiplication. Give the next generation permission to experiment. // Todd isn’t calling churches to abandon everything they’ve inherited. Instead, he encourages leaders to learn from the past, retain what is fruitful, and recognize that the current operating system may be losing effectiveness. Churches should create space for younger leaders to experiment, learn, and discover more reproducible approaches to disciple-making without being forced to preserve every assumption of previous generations. To learn more about Todd Wilson, visit multipliers.org. You can also download a free PDF or audio version of How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward at church-growth.org or pick up a paper copy on Amazon.com. In addition, check out Todd Wilson’s conversation with Carey Nieuwhof, and the interview A Simple & Scalable Way to Reproduce Christians with David Putnam. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it's time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have tuned in today for this reason, friends, lean in. um I want you to be a part of the conversation that we’re having today. The leader that we’ve got on the phone, on the I don’t know why say the phone because we have not been on phones for podcasts in, you know, 10 years, but on the line is really pressing on an issue that I know that a large portion, you know, almost 90 percent of the churches in the country need to be doing what we’re talking about today. And they’re not. And I really want you to lean in and learn from Todd Wilson. Rich Birch — If you do not know Todd Wilson, he has been the founding and co-founding member of a number of faith-based organizations, including Exponential and Multipliers. He has designed a number, and been a part of the launch of a multiple of national church planting networks. He’s currently a team member, or team leader at Multipliers and serves leaders and ministries who are pursuing multiplication, helping them develop vision and strategy ultimately for a 100 X impact. You know that I love that. Rich Birch — Recently, he wrote a book that caught my attention that I want to dive in on and kind of um unpack some of the core lessons for us today. It’s called, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward. And it’s really looking at the whole conversation, American church growth movement. Todd, welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Todd Wilson — Rich, it’s great to be here with you. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.Rich Birch — Yeah, me too. So why don’t we start with kind of giving us a picture of Multipliers and the work that you’re focused on now, kind of set the context for us.Todd Wilson — Sure. It’s probably good to have the context, you know, at at my core, my own personal calling. I am an entrepreneurial engineer at my core. I love to envision, envisage opportunities, seek strategies and opportunities of the future. And so where I like to do it anywhere, there’s potential for a hundred X kingdom impact. And that’s what gets me in trouble often is the, wherever there’s potential for a hundred X kingdom impact.Todd Wilson — When I came out of the marketplace over 25 years ago into full-time ministry, the most natural hundred X place for me, in addition to being in the local church was, was church planting. I was just drawn to church planting. I got to spend almost 20 years, ah you know, leading Exponential and co-founding there.Todd Wilson — And in recent years, really trying to get even more focused really on the 100x impact. I want to spend my next decade as I’m getting older here, you know, what’s it look like for every hour, for every dollar, for every bit of energy, to see 100x return.Todd Wilson — And so the idea of Multipliers, and it’s a small team of us that, you know, we have a definite bias within the kingdom space to the disciple-making as the mission and engine of the church. And what’s it look like to get back to Jesus style disciple making. But then church planting and multiplication, what does it look like to be doing things that that are even capable of reproduction that can lead to multiplication and ultimately movement. So our goal is to just help champion at the personal level through personal calling, at the church level through disciple making and cultures of disciple making that can ultimately produce movements.Todd Wilson — And so we are a champion and advocate for that.Rich Birch — That’s fantastic. You and I are are similarly wired. And over the years, you know I’ve heard people talk about, you know, and they always they’ll do like a series at a church on spiritual gifts. And I’ve often wondered because of the kinds of things I’ve been involved in, if, you know, if I have some sort of apostolic gift, just because of the stuff I found myself doing and, you know, launching campuses and all that.Rich Birch — And it’s interesting that gift over the years I’ve heard, which is similar to the kind of work you’ve been doing over the years is the only gift that I’ve ever noticed that preachers, they seem to talk down about it. And they’re like, stop starting things like, you know, they’re like, they always, you know, are like on the negative side of, you know, being the guy who wants to be entrepreneurial and see new things.Rich Birch — And that’s a part of what I admire about you and the good work you’ve done. When you were at Exponential over those, you know, with you that you co-founded, you know, that almost 20 years, you know, they had this, they saw some amazing things happen there under your leadership, where this idea of moving church reproduction from under 5%, really trying to push us towards 16%.Rich Birch — So for people that are unaware of this, I think this is good context to kind of take a step back and talk about why that number, why are we actually, why are you giving decades of your life towards this idea of trying to move towards 16%? What do we mean by that when you you know talk about that? Because I think that’s a good foundational idea for today’s conversation.Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think it’s important it to understand, again, context for me. I didn’t grow up a Christian. I never had a dream to be in full-time vocational ministry. I’ve never wanted to be a lead pastor of anything. You know, ministry was the farthest thing from my mind growing up. When you’re asking kids, what do you want do when you grow up? Todd Wilson — So when God brought me into full-time vocational ministry, and I’m going to say kicking and screaming, I wanted to go start a company. I wanted to go make money. I wanted to go change the world. And so coming into full-time vocational ministry, why in the world would I want to see anything except movements happening? Rich Birch — That’s good.Todd Wilson — We read about movements in the New Testament. Why do I want to be personally satisfied if God’s calling me into a new life of ministry with anything less than seeing movements?Todd Wilson — And so that was my context of stepping in and and leading at Exponential and what was driving us. And your question from 5% to 16%. Well, Houston, we have a problem.Todd Wilson — If movements are multiplication, and multiplication is generational reproduction, and we, at the time we were starting Exponential, there were less than 5% of U.S. churches were reproducing. You just got to let that sink in.Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — 95% of churches just 25 years ago, 95% of churches in the U.S. are not reproducing. It’s physically impossible, both mathematically and biblically, to see multiplication and ultimately movements if less than 5% of churches are reproducing.Todd Wilson — So the answer to where’s the 5 to 16, for me personally, God’s called me into a new life and a new ministry. I don’t want to be satisfied with just status quo, but the state of the U.S. church is such that we physically can’t see 100x impact in the operating system of how things are working. Todd Wilson — So the 5 to 16 was very simple. Let’s measure where we’re at. And so the 16% sociologists say that if you can get 16% of an audience acting a certain way, behaving a certain way, it will become normative for everyone else. I like to say, if you’re in a room and you start quacking like a duck to talk, if you can get 16% of the people in the audience quacking like a duck, then everybody’s going to communicate by quacking like a duck.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And so it just became a conviction. Let’s move the needle from less than 5% to 16%. And then the language we would use is, at 16%, healthy church reproduction would become such a normative thing that we would see multiplication happening.Todd Wilson — Now, the little bit of an elephant in the room before we move on, church planting is just the outcome. So that 5% number, it’s an outcome of the system and what’s happening.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — The more ornery number is that the national studies that we did on what percentage of U.S. churches have a disciple-making culture. That’s also less than 5%.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So 95% of churches don’t have a functional mission of disciple-making, and that’s their normative growth engine through disciple-making. So in reality, we have a disciple-making problem, not a church-planting problem. And so those two became very tied together, as as will become evident as we have this interview.Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. and And just can you define generational reproduction for folks that are listening in? When you when you when you say that, like, hey, we’re trying to move churches towards generational reproduction, kind of just unpack that a little bit more.Todd Wilson — Yeah, let’s let’s start at the personal level of disciple-making. If one person makes a disciple of another person, you’ve got one generation. If that person goes on to make another disciple two generations, that person makes a disciple three generations. We see that biblically. We see that in the leadership pipeline with Paul, that you know we need to see disciples who make disciples who make disciples.Todd Wilson — Once you get to the third or fourth generation of something reproducing itself, if you drew that on paper, one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight, eight becomes 16. That is an exponential or a multiplication curve. So all you have to do to go from addition to multiplication is have healthy reproduction broad and wide multiple generations into the future.Todd Wilson — Now we just take that to the church level, a church that plants a church that plants a church that plants a church broad and wide.Todd Wilson — Now you’ve gone from one church to 16 churches. And now look at the collective attendance of those 16 churches. That’s what you call healthy growth. That’s what you call multiplication when you keep reproducing it over and over.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. And there’s actually been progress against this. This is one of the things that I’ve loved as a person just sitting on the outside looking in as you and the team, you know, Dave and the broader Exponential community have really been hammering away at this. You know, we’re not at 16% yet, but we’re seeing progress, which is which is amazing.Todd Wilson — Right. It’s in the studies that we did, and it’s been repeated a couple of times, the needle has moved to at least 7%. That may not sound like a lot, but if you go take the number of churches we’re talking about…Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — …and that needle moving from less than 5% to 7%. And we’re not taking credit for all that at Exponential. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — We’re getting to ride a wave that really started around 2000. Prior to 2000, denominations planted churches, not really churches or networks. We saw the birth of networks around 2000 in the U.S. It’s hard for people to realize, but like in the church planting world, groups like City to City and GlocalNet and Acts 29 and ARC and Church Multiplication Network and Stadia and New Thing Network, none of them existed.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Todd Wilson — Literally in a five-year time period, we saw the birth of all these church planting networks, and that happened to coincide with that we saw that need to start Exponential to serve those networks.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So We we were a little bit the right group at the right place, advocating for the right thing.Todd Wilson — And I do think that generally the the wonderful thing is that as that needle is starting to move and the visibility is getting more and more, the next generation wants it. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, I would agree.Todd Wilson — They want the scorecard of that. So I feel very optimistic that we’re still a ways away from 16%, but the needle is moving in the right direction.Rich Birch — Yeah, I would echo that too. I think there is, um you know, one of the couple years ago, I had one of those ages in my life flip over with zero on the end that you kind of notice and you reflect back on life a little bit. And I would say one of the things I’ve noticed over, you know, almost 30 years of ministry is this issue is has become more normative. Like it’s it’s a part of the conversation. It’s not that everyone’s doing it, but it’s in the dialogue, which I think is is wonderful.Rich Birch — Well, I, so you know, there’s, you interact with a lot of church leaders across the country. You interact with a lot of people, you have a pulse on a lot of, you know, what’s going on. And there’s a growing sense, you have flagged that there’s a growing sense among leaders that there’s just something wrong. It’s like, you know, there’s like a stink in the bottom of our, our, garbage that’s like, oh it’s a little bit stinky. It’s not like overwhelming, but we can’t put our finger on exactly what that is. Rich Birch — They can’t necessarily name it, but we feel it. We kind of see that there’s maybe something in the way we’re doing what we’re doing that isn’t working. What are you hearing as you sit across the table from church leaders in across the country, you know, around all of these things that we’re talking about?Todd Wilson — Let me describe it a couple of different ways. I think the the word I would put on it is an angst. I think if you look at the definition of an angst, there’s a there’s a growing and an underlying angst. um I’m going to say, if I’m descriptive of the angst, that might not be the way people would exactly say it but it’s how I translate what I’m hearing.Todd Wilson — We are working a lot harder to reach less people and we don’t like the cultural Christian product we’re getting. We’re working a lot harder. We’re spending more money to reach fewer people. And we’re just having this angst that the product we’re producing is a little bit too much consumer cultural Christian as we’re working harder and spending more money. And that leaves somebody full time, know, if I mean, if you’re a full time vocational pastor, there’s an angst that sits in the middle of that dynamic going on. Todd Wilson — My mentor and friend, Robert Lewis, who led Fellowship Bible Church in Little Rock for years, Robert’s handed off the leadership back in 2005. Robert describes it this way. He did the foreword on my recent book, and when he read and reviewed the book, he said, Todd, oh my goodness, this is first and foremost a walk down history lane. It’s like going back and looking at history. Todd Wilson — But he said, here’s the thing. I had this angst in 2005. Everything was up and to the right. We were growing. We were doing new campuses. We had started a church planting. Like we’re doing all of the stuff. People are turning to us. They’re looking at what we’re doing. We had started a leadership conference. And I just had this angst that something wasn’t right.Todd Wilson — And he said, I couldn’t name it. He said, I needed a therapist. But where does a megachurch pastor who’s having nothing but success with up and to the right, who’s feeling angst about the system, where do you go for therapy in that? He’s like, I didn’t know whether to feel like I was being ungrateful or what.Todd Wilson — And his words were, as you’ve traced the 75 years of the church growth movement and its evolution into a consumer-driven operating system, you have named my angst. I wish I would have had this book in 2005 to name my angst because half the battle is getting our hands around understanding why we’re feeling the way we do.Rich Birch — Yeah, I was talking to denominational leader within the last year to kind of add a bit more flavor even to that angst, who was saying, and this is a fantastic denomination, you know, Jesus loving, you know, fantastic group of people um and have, you know, very similar what you’re saying, like lots of good things going on.Rich Birch — And this was one of those like, After dinner conversations, you know, long ah a long ways away from a bunch of leaders, we were just chatting on the sideline. And he said, you know, the interesting thing, when you look at our tribe, his movement, he rattled off all their stats. We have a certain number of churches. We have a certain number of pastors. We have a certain number of, you know, baptisms every year. It rattles all that off.Rich Birch — And he said, you know, if you were to look at where we were 20 years ago, the number of churches is the same, the number of, and rattled off all these stats that are the same. Like we’re baptizing the same number of people, the attendance is the same, the the like all these things. He said, the only thing that’s gone up in the last 20 years is we’ve doubled our staff head count. There’s twice as many staff today as there was. And when I read, heard about your book and you talk about this angst, I was like, ooh, that’s exactly what he was describing. He’s like, wait a second. what’s happening here. And him as a denominational leader, he had the same read, hey, there’s something wrong with the way we set this thing up. Rich Birch — So your book, let’s actually dive into a little bit. It starts really at 70 year arc from Donald McGavron from 1955, all the way to today. And so for a leader who’s never really stepped back and thought about the history of like, what, how did we get here? It’s the name of your book. Why does knowing what got us to where we are today, this kind of consumer operating system that you describe, why does, how does understanding that help us as we think about the future?Todd Wilson — It’s a really good question. And I’m not sure, honestly, that I when I, when I set out to write this book, that, that that was even driving me to begin with, but very quickly that became the, I realized that’s why I need to write this book.Todd Wilson — So let, let me explain. And I need to give you a little bit of background to explain, because it’s an important question.Rich Birch — Yep, yep, for sure.Todd Wilson — So when I think about the moment that, that I realized we had a problem. Like that that, okay, we’re on this trajectory, things are moving the right direction to the 16%, and I’m back in the leadership of Exponential now. And I’m realizing, oh my goodness, we really do have a problem. And here’s here was what that looked like. Todd Wilson — I believed we had started learning communities and we had very vibrant learning communities And our learning communities got started because we felt like we need to shift the paradigm of people’s measure of success in the scorecard of church. It was very much about we need to shift paradigm. Alan Hirsch was involved with this on how do we shift from just growing large things to growing decentralized things that saturate. And it was very much about scorecard.Todd Wilson — And if you think about it, we’re wanting to move the needle from 5% to 16%. That’s a scorecard thing. So our initiating event was scorecard. But as we got into these learning communities, which in my opinion were the best things we were doing at Exponential. I mean, they were six to eight month learning journeys and we would rock people’s paradigm.Todd Wilson — We really would. People would go through it and be like, Oh my goodness, I got to have a different view of success in the church.Rich Birch — Right. yeahTodd Wilson — And guess what? They’d go home and Sunday’s coming. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — There’s, services to run, there’s people to pastor, there’s things to do. And the aha moment for me came, Rich, when I realized the the whole definition of insanity, that if you just keep doing the same thing over and over and hope for a different outcome, but that’s insanity. And here I am trying to lead a national organization to see a change in scorecard to move the needle to 16%.Todd Wilson — And I remember the day that I realized we’re not going to get there with the operating system we have in place in church right now. This operating system is not capable of getting us to the 16% number.Todd Wilson — That was a personal crisis. I’m leading an organization that’s up and to the right that the needle is moving. But as a futurist, I’m realizing we’re not going to get where we need to be with the operating system in the church. So the the operating system part was what drove me to start writing this book. I’ll let you ask a question there, and then we’ll circle back to the how does it relate to understanding how we got here, though.Rich Birch — Yeah, so ah just to underline what you’re saying there, um you know in in other conversations, I’ve heard leaders say, you know it’s like, um you know what you know what you reach people with is what you end up keeping them with. And so if what I hear you saying, just putting, I think, other language around it, but correct me, is kind of a consumer-oriented or a consumer cultural operating system that we’ve we’ve used as a church… Todd Wilson — Right.Rich Birch — …you know, obviously by definition, if you ah use a um consumption-based model, that doesn’t, leave you it’s very difficult to turn around and say, okay, now become a multiplier. You know, we got you here as a consumer. Okay, now how do we make you a multiplier? Is that the core pain?Todd Wilson — It is. And Rich, you’re painting the picture of why looking back to understand how we got here is important. If it’s true, that are ah If it’s true, and I want to suggest people ought to go look at it for themselves, that the underlying operating system that has evolved over the last 75 years, it’s not where it started with Donald McGavern in 1955. And there was never bad intentions by any of the good people through the 70 years.Rich Birch — Yeah, right.Todd Wilson — We have evolved from what was originally one thing. into a consumer model that is way more focused on success is growing big, success is making converts, not necessarily disciples. And we we can diagnose that if there’s a problem today, and I suggest there is a problem today, then how we got here and understanding how over 70 years, what was intended to be one thing, gradually (like the frog getting boiled in cold water) turned into something else.Todd Wilson — We’ve got to go through the the, if we really want to change the operating system, and I’ve seen how hard it is, guys can have the paradigm shift. We need to change. Then they go back home into the operating system that they’re operating in. And it is really, really hard to just throw off one operating system and embrace another oneTodd Wilson — And I wouldn’t even encourage people to do that. Don’t go home and just change your operating system overnight. But if you do want to make thoughtful, progressive change, the best way to do it is to start by going back and learn the lesson of how did we get where we are?Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — How did things get off track to where to where we are?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Todd Wilson — And that’s what ended you know, I started out the book really to go after understanding the operating system itself. And very quickly came to the conclusion, oh, we I’m not sure how we’re going to move to a new operating system if people don’t go through the hard work of looking back and understanding how well-intentioned people over time have delivered for us what we have today in a flawed system.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. You know, I know, again, from my own personal experience, not to bring this back to me, but to my own personal experience, again, it’s been interesting to see similar patterns. You know, every couple years, there’s like some new idea that comes up in the church. And oftentimes I’m like, yeah, this is just like of rehash of a thing I saw 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago.Rich Birch — It’s like, oh, this is is brand new. It’s like, ah, it’s echoes of things we’ve seen in the past. So why don’t we just kind of give people a flyover or a walkover of the kind of eras that you kind of define as you went through the book, just to give people a high level. Rich Birch — Ultimately friends, you know, I’m encouraging you to to do two things out of today. One is to pick up, I think this could be a great book for you and your team to go through. You and your leadership team, buy copies of this, read it. I think it could be an interesting book for you or, and go and listen to Todd’s interview with Carey as well. Carey just takes longer in his podcast and has more time. So there’s going to be, there’s lots packed into that as well. Rich Birch — But why don’t you kind of give us a flyover of the eras? And then maybe when you think about each one of those, something that was like, really positive that came from that area something like hey there’s something good there or maybe there’s something there that we’ve got to be cautious about as we think about the future.Todd Wilson — Yeah. And just to be clear, Rich, you know this, ah I’m a local church guy. My calling is a local church. I’m still on staff at a local church. I love the local church. So this part of the, difficulty for me in spending two years and over a hundred hours of interviews and putting this timeline of history together is I love the church.Todd Wilson — And I I, don’t know that I’d be sitting here talking to you if it weren’t for several of these eras I’m getting ready to name to you. So you’ve got really, I think a common thread through across these areas as we jump into them is typically apostolic, evangelistically driven leaders who really want to reach people. Hell is real. Lost people are going there. We got to reach them. And I think that’s the driving factor across all these eras is well-intentioned people…Todd Wilson — And if I can start with the end point, I think we’ve sort of co-opted the more holistic disciple-making growth engine that’s capable of generational disciple-making with strategies for institutional programmatic growth that are not capable of reproduction. They’re very good at growing large things and reaching lots of people, but not necessarily making, you know, through relational disciple making, disciples who make disciples who plant churches that plant churches.Todd Wilson — So here’s how I would do the flyover. When I got started writing this history, I thought I was doing one chapter of this history in another book. Rich Birch — I love it.Todd Wilson — And one chapter turned into two chapters and three chapters. And eventually my editor said, Todd, you just need to do a full book.Rich Birch — Well, that’s a book.Todd Wilson — And it ends up turning into the longest book I’ve written because of the 75 year history. And ah Rich, seriously, don’t, people don’t need to feel bad if they don’t know all the history. I, I’m like a where’s Waldo through a lot of this history. I’ve had a seat at the table for a lot of the stuff through these eras.Todd Wilson — Until writing this book, I did not know how all the dots connected across these eras. And then it became there were so many, oh, oh, oh. So here’s here’s the shot I’ll give to you. Ididn’t really I knew I had heard of Donald McGavern. I knew he was considered the father of the modern church growth movement. I’ve never, prior to writing this book, read about him, gone off and studied him. Gary McIntosh is his by is Donald McGavern’s biographer. So I spent a lot of time with Gary. He pointed me in the right directions.Todd Wilson — And here’s what I learned. Donald McGavern, born in the late 1800s, international missionary in India. um His father and mother were missionaries in India. He came from the mission field and his context was the international mission field. Todd Wilson — Now, get this as the starting point in 1955. He’s an international missionary. He has planted 15 churches himself in his career, none of which ever grew to more than 100 people. So you got to let that sink in. The father of the modern church growth movement planted 15 churches, none of which grew to more than 100. And yet he’s the father of what we consider now the modern church growth movement.Rich Birch — Right. Interesting.Todd Wilson — So the kind the context was, he became fascinated after reading a research report on why some churches in provinces in India were growing and others weren’t. Sometimes churches in the same village that were growing and just down the street, others weren’t.Todd Wilson — So he kind of took a scientific approach, the study of church growth. Like let’s study this like it’s a science, like what’s causing some churches to grow. And he he had very clear conclusions out of that, but you know, a handful of conclusions of what’s causing that.Todd Wilson — And so ultimately, when he came off the mission field by 1960, 61, he started the Church Growth Institute, not for U.S. pastors, but for international missionaries who were on furlough to come home and learn about church growth principles that they could take back to the international mission field. He had no interest in U.S. pastors. Todd Wilson — So for multiple years in the 60s, he was doing that. And when Fuller wanted to start their International School of World Missions, one of their best faculty member ratings was Donald McGavern. So they invited him to come become the founding dean of the the Fuller School of World Missions.Todd Wilson — But he only agreed to do it if he could bring the Church Growth Institute with him. So by 1970, you’ve got that up and running. He’s built his team. He invited a guy called C. Peter Wagner off the mission field to come be on his faculty staff. And in 1970, 71, Peter Wagner convinced Donald McGavern that they ought to run one class for U.S. pastors on church growth.Todd Wilson — And the rest is history. That one class, it just turned into, Imean, people were very interested in it. Denominations became interested. And literally within a couple of years, you’ve got this up and to the right people latching on to church growth science.Todd Wilson — And that starts the process, you know. Even from the beginning, you start to see a little bit of co-opting away from McGavern’s things. Not fast, but a little bit. Todd Wilson — So right on the heels of that, in the 70s then, you’ve got this young kid, ah Bill Hybels… Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — …who’s running you know going to go into business and he’s running a street ministry with youth. He’s being mentored by Robert Shuler.Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — And Shuler’s got the possibility thinking, think outside the box, very apostolic. Turns out Shuler not only mentors Hybels, but there’s some mentoring of Rick Warren. And so you’ve got the birth of the seeker-sensitive era then.Todd Wilson — You know, if the first era was the McGavern-Roots era, now we’ve got the seeker-sensitive era. And, you know, that can be a positive or a negative stigma. For me, in 1976, I’m in middle school going into high school, not a Christian, live down the street from this movie theater called the Willow Creek Movie Theater. Rich Birch — Right. Right.Todd Wilson — And my mom drags us kicking and screaming into the Willow Creek Movie Theater. We were the avatar family for the Seeker Sensitive family movement.Rich Birch — Right. Movement.Todd Wilson — From Seeker Sensitive, you get out of that the what Peter Drucker and Bob Buford would call the large church phenomena and the birth of Leadership Network then with the large church phenomena, which became the megachurch phenomena.Todd Wilson — You’ve got Rick Warren and his masterful work with the purpose-driven church. Rick’s able to put handles on this church growth part, but Rick was a disciple of Donald McGavern, so he’s got the McGavern roots. Todd Wilson — You’ve got Hybels with the Shuler roots. And in that 80 into the 90s with the birth of the Global Leadership Summit and the other, you’ve you’ve got this very influential large church phenomena, purpose-driven, being shaped by, you know, in large part, the combination of Leadership Network, Hybels, Rick Warren… And that brings us up to you know about 2000. Todd Wilson — And just as a flyover, I would then call the era of the externally focused church. You’ve got the rapid fire birth of church planting networks. You’ve got multi-site. People don’t realize prior to 2000, there’s less than 50 multi-site churches.Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — Leadership Network engages it in 2000. And from 2000 to 2010 you see an up, I mean, radically up and to the right.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — The externally focused church, same thing. Rick Russo has book right in that time period. The missional guys, right in that time period. So the common theme between these church planning networks, the missional guys, the externally focused guys, the multi-site, is we’re now looking outside of ourselves.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — But in large part, we’re still looking outside of ourselves as growth strategies for our things. If you really go look under the hood of a lot of those.Todd Wilson — And then I would say coming out of the externally or outwardly focused era, 2015 to 2025, I just have no other name than the disruption era. As I was doing the research on this book, um I had to stop at like 12 major disruptions that happened in that time period with COVID right in the middle. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — And so that’s the…Rich Birch — Political upheaval. There’s a bunch in there in that same, you know, yeah, that there’s been a schism.Todd Wilson — You’ve got deconstruction of faith.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — You’ve got cynicism. You’ve got platformed individualism with the birth of social media. Now anybody can be their own, you know, playlist influencer. There’s just so many disruptive factors in there.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — Now you look at all those disruptive factors with the evolution of what’s happening in the church and the church operating system. And it leaves us on a very shaky foundation at that point that, you know It kind of brings us up to where we are now, and you can either be a pessimist at that or an optimist. And I choose the optimist path that we’re poised for a new day and a new operating system is my prayer.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s amazing. And friends, as you can see, you just got a real thin slice of, you know, just all the various phases that you do such a great job unpacking for us to help us really understand how we we got here. It was It was wild, it’s wild thinking about a lot of that because I remember, you know, various phases of those over the last particularly 25 years, you know, seeing that up close and seeing, you know, kind of the impact that has had and then wondering about the future and where we go from here. Rich Birch — So thinking about the future and, you know, obviously you’ve, um you know, you’ve you’re making a clear clarion call around, hey, we’ve got to think differently than the consumer driven operating system. We’ve got to we’ve got to come up with something different. After all of that, um and we’ve kind of covered this already, but I’d love to make sure we kind of hone on this, have this resonate with people that are listening in. Why is it so difficult for that system, for the consumer-driven operating system to to really ultimately produce healthy reproduction and multiplication and in churches? What’s structurally ah broken about it? And what what would be some first steps we should be thinking about change to the future as we think about, okay, where we go from here? Todd Wilson — Yeah.Rich Birch — How do we, you know, build on the positive stuff, but also look for something different as we look to the future? Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think we don’t have to make it complex, Rich, if we just keep trying to come back to simplicity for a minute. Like the system that has evolved has actually become pretty complex when you think about it. I would say if we could just focus on, I’m not even going to say changing overnight, but if if I’m a lead pastor, if I’m on staff at a church, I’m really focused on disciple-making as the core mission and growth engine of the church. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — Like what is it, most churches are going to say our mission is disciple making or it’s going to be part of it. They’re going to say we have a culture of disciple making, but it is not what the data shows. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — You know, again, 95% of churches do not have a culture of disciple-making. They have a culture of program activity. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — And so I’m not an advocate of changing everything overnight, but if you want to shift from a culture of program activity to a true culture of disciple-making‚ it has to start with the lead minister having a simple, reproducible, in-practice disciple-making approach that is being modeled for the… I don’t mean discipling the staff. I mean there’s people the lead pastor are personally discipling, modeling that simple, reproducible process. Todd Wilson — Where we’re starting to see traction and where I think the breakthroughs are going to come in getting us to the new operating system of the future, it is going to start, and it’s it’s happening right now, with pastors who say, you know, if I’m really honest, I’ve been preaching the last 52 weeks. I’ve been leading meetings. I’ve been doing, I’ve been doing, I’ve done, but I’m not really personally making disciples. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And I think it’s going to start with the lead pastor, the elders, senior people saying, If we could only have one metric of success in the next 12 months, it’s not growth, it’s not the activities we do, it’s not the new building. If we only have one measure of success, it’s how many disciples have I personally, relationally been involved in? me Not how many have I preached to, not how many outreach events have we done where we’ve got, but what have I personally done on the disciple-making front?Todd Wilson — And I don’t want to make it more complicated than that. That’s what we’re missing right now.Rich Birch — That’s good. No, that’s really good. Yeah, that’s good. I love the practical takeaway of, um yeah, it’s like, who are the three people in your life that you’re actually discipling? Let’s start there. Rich Birch — So this is kind of a sidebar to it.Todd Wilson — Can I just look real quick?Rich Birch — Yes. Yep. Push back. Yep.Todd Wilson — So David Putman, who’s part of what we do at Multipliers, David’s longtime kingdom guy.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — You should have him on as an interview here. David is completely focused on what he calls the 5-3-2 right now. Five simple reproducible principles, three rhythms, and and two relationships. So it’s a triad of three people that just keeps reproducing.Todd Wilson — Anybody can do it. A ninth grader can do it. A lead pastor can do it. I’m watching this model take different groups by storm right now. And whether you embrace the 5-3-2 or some other model like it, the key is going to be having a simple, reproducible process that works for the lead pastor and anyone else in the church. Same model.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah we had David on back in 2020 and I’m like we got to get him back on uh the podcast. Rich Birch — So sidebar issue, so this is not something we’d you know kicked around ahead of time but it’s kind of adjacent to this. So I am not a I'm not a teaching pastor. Similar to you. I’m not, i never saw myself as a lead pastor. I’ve always been in the like, Hey, my job’s to be in the second chair, cheering for other lead pastors. I’ve worked for um really over my career as an XP three incredible communicator lead pastors who it would appear like, and it is, they, all three of them, God gifted them with this ability to speak and gather crowds. Like that was like core. And, and I, I’ve spent a lot of time like listening to them and watching them. And part of it just appears to be like, it’s definitely a gifting that’s going on there.Rich Birch — And I, over time, ah questions like the following would come up that I would I'd struggle with, where it’s like, it would appear like this person can gather a lot of people, and we can build more chairs in front of that person and people will hear that person and they’ll they’ll take steps towards Jesus. Rich Birch — And I understand that that’s not, or that’s not a full picture of discipleship. That’s one piece of the discipleship puzzle, but it’s not… And the the kind of organizational pressure is, okay, let’s keep figuring out how to build more seats in front of this person and and their gift. How do we get them to leverage their gift well? Rich Birch — And to be honest, I’ve been in conversations where I’ve been the voice of like, I want to line 100,000 people up in front of this person to hear this person speak because I think the way they talk about Jesus is different than what I’ve heard other people say and it it’ll make a difference. Rich Birch — That is, I think, at the center of this tension that there’s some there seems to be something about the gift of teaching that it’s not, I don’t know whether it’s not evenly distributed, or there’s like a brokenness in humanity and we only want to listen to certain kinds of people. I don’t know whether it’s one of those two things. So all I’ve done is describe a problem and I’m going to say, comment on it, Todd.Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think you’re right on the mark. I think I want to affirm that, you know, I mean, everybody has their definitions. I believe the preaching role is, and and the teaching and reaching is a piece of the discipleship equation.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — I think if I’m defining the problem statement, We have made it the biggest piece… Rich Birch — Sure. Todd Wilson — …instead of a piece or a playing a role in it. So I think the issue is that how big we’ve made it. Like you, I was an executive pastor for years. And when I look back on that time, my role was not about holistic relational disciple making that could be the growth engine of the church. and it It was how do we get as many people in seats in the auditorium on Sunday? We need great marketing. We need great outreach.Todd Wilson — And again, I think all of those play a role in the disciple-making process ultimately. But let’s just be honest, that’s not disciple-making itself. It plays a role in the disciple-making process.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So the elephant in the room here is, how do we scale disciple-making? If I if I could be If I could be the czar of this, I’m not, but if I could be, I want the genius at the end. I want the unique gifts that are represented across the whole mosaic and the church, starting with that dynamic creature that can attract the crowd. I want it. Todd Wilson — But I also want those senior leaders of the organization I really want to be focused on what is our growth engine and what is our holistic disciple-making process. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And the number one thing I want from those senior leaders is not their unique gift. I want their modeling, their personal modeling of the simple, reproducible, disciple-making growth engine that anybody in the church can do. Rich Birch — That’s good.Todd Wilson — I mean, that that preaching gift you’re talking about, that that one lead pastor can do, how many other people in the church can do that?Rich Birch — Right. Not many. Yep.Todd Wilson — So there’s their paradigm. So we need them doing it.Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — But I would argue what we need them doing even more than that inspiration is modeling the simple reproducible disciple making thing that people know that’s how we’re going to win here.Rich Birch — Yeah. Well, and I’ve that lines up, I’ve said it at probably, well, not a thousand times, but hundreds of times with lead pastors over the years that in the context of this conversation, I would rather them weave in the discussion about their discipleship relationships as like just a normative part of conversation rather than the, we’re doing six weeks on discipleship and how to become disciple making. I’m like, if you just pepper that stuff in week in, week out, it just is a normative part of the conversation that changes culture. Rich Birch — The kind of like, we’re going to make it a program. We’re going to brand it. We’ve got a great name on it. And my experience has been, it’s it’s a little bit like nailing jello to the wall. There’s there’s actually some of that containing of what we’re talking about actually kills the exact thing that we’re trying to do. And so, man, I think there’s a real tension there. And how do we help those people? Rich Birch — Because it’s not like we want them to do a worse job. It’s not like, hey, if you could stop talking in a way that attracts a crowd, that’s not the answer. But we’ve got to, like you say, how do we move them into those personal relationships? That’s fantastic.Rich Birch — Well, this has been a great conversation…Todd Wilson — My question would be, Rich, what what would happen…Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — …if an average lead pastor went on a one-year journey to to of disciple-making themselves? Call it a triad, call it four, five. They’re always, over the next year, going to be in a disciple-making small micro group… Rich Birch — Yep. Todd Wilson — …and all of their preaching is going to be informed.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — That’s their laboratory of learning.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s their paradigm. Yeah, that’s good.Todd Wilson — That’s their paradigm. And now they’re bringing it to life, not just as periodic examples, but, you know, my whole frame of reference of my library is what comes out of that experience. Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — And our problem right now is that’s just lack. It isn’t that it’s inserted a little bit. It’s just lacking.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, this has been great. what ah What a great conversation. And as you can tell, friends, there’s a lot we could talk about there. And a lot you know just there’s a rich conversation that could be had around this. Rich Birch — Let’s let’s pivot and kind of talk a little bit about the book specifically. i want to make sure people pick up copies of this. Again, the name of it is How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward. People can get this on Amazon. Are there other places that you would send people if they want to pick up copies of this?Todd Wilson — Yeah. So if they go to church-growth.org, church-growth.org, that’s the book’s homepage. You can actually get the free PDF there. You can get the free audio version there. There’s a full wiki there that people can contribute to. What you kind of mentioned it in passing, but I’ll highlight, it is impossible to read this book and not see yourself in it. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah.Todd Wilson — Anyone who’s been a Christian for a while, they, the editor of the book said the power of this is going to be, she said, I can tell you the page in the book that I entered the story. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Todd Wilson — So you’ve got the free PDF, the free audio, the wiki, and then for people that just want the paper versions, you can get it on Amazon.Rich Birch — That’s great. And we’ll link to that friends so that you can, you know, find that quickly in the show notes and, and friends, I would encourage you again, to me, I think this could be a great resource to do with your leadership team, as I mentioned earlier. It would be a great kind of conversation starter and really context setter for us to think through these issues as we think about the future. Rich Birch — So kind of as we, as we come to close up today’s conversation, any final words as we wrap up today?Todd Wilson — Rich, I just appreciate the work you’re doing. I want to be an encouragement to pastors. Don’t let this book be, it’s not a deconstruction book. It’s not, oh my goodness, the church has fallen apart.Rich Birch — No, yeah.Todd Wilson — We need to keep plugging away doing what we’re doing, but we also have to have an eye on the future that this operating system that has evolved, everything has a beginning and an end. And this operating system, I believe, is in its final days. I think we’re we’re seeing you know less and less effectiveness with it. And I think we just need to be in a posture of giving permission to the next generations to do some trial and error and experimentation and not be locked into the paradigm of the of the past inheriting previous things.Rich Birch — No, fantastic, Todd. I appreciate you being here. And I would echo that, you know, you’re you’re the kind of leader that’s in our corner trying to help us get better. And so I appreciate the voice that you’ve had for for decades. And so I really appreciate that. Rich Birch — If people want to track with you, get connected, follow along with Multipliers where do we want to send them online?Todd Wilson — Multipliers.org can get me to all the different ways from email to phone to social media. So multipliers.org.Rich Birch — That’s great. Thanks so much, Todd. Appreciate you being here, sir.Todd Wilson — Thank you, Rich. Appreciate it.

Perhaps the most Profound of the Great "I AM" statements from Christ where He alone is the way into Heaven. Found out who will make Heaven.

In this episode, Eli addresses the issue of how the existence of multiple denominations does not undermine Sola Scriptura.

In this episode of Counterflow, I'm joined by Neil DeGraide, musician, songwriter, and founding member of Dirt Poor Robins. Neil spent years in the Evangelical world leading worship and creating Christian music before beginning a journey that ultimately led him to the Orthodox Church. We talk about what changed, the assumptions he had to unlearn, and why he came to believe the search for the true Church is about much more than denominations. We also dive into Christianities, the upcoming documentary Neil is helping produce alongside Fr. Peter Heers and John Heers. The film explores the biggest questions in Christianity by interviewing voices from across the Christian world while inviting viewers to seriously consider the claims of the ancient Church. Along the way we discuss worship, storytelling, imagination, culture, filmmaking, and why the stories we live inside shape us far more than we often realize. We Discuss: * Neil's journey from Evangelicalism to Orthodoxy * Leading worship—and why his understanding of worship completely changed * Dirt Poor Robins and storytelling through music * The upcoming documentary Christianities * Why there are so many expressions of Christianity today * The search for the historic Church * Story, imagination, and the Christian life * Recovering a richer vision of worship * The role of artists in rebuilding Christian culture * Why beauty, truth, and story belong together * Hope for the future of Christianity Learn More: Dirt Poor Robins Dirt Poor Robins on YouTube Christianities Documentary Sponsors: Ludwell Orthodox Fellowship Conference, Sept 12th 2026 Donate to the show here: https://www.patreon.com/counterflow Podsworth App: https://podsworth.com  Code: BUCK50 for HALF off your first order! Clean up your recordings, sound like a pro, and support the Counterflow Podcast! Full Ad Read BEFORE processing: https://youtu.be/F4ljjtR5QfA  Full Ad Read AFTER processing: https://youtu.be/J6trRTgmpwE Leave us a review and rating on Apple Podcasts! Thanks!

I. Christians are to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace because the church is created by the God who is one in three and three in one, vv4-6. II. Christians are to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, because we are members of one body, v4. III. Christians are to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace because we share one hope, v4. 

In this episode of the AC Podcast, Ben continues our “Denominations in Conversation” series with pastor Tim Woodcock. Pastor Woodcock, the lead pastor of Glad Tidings Pentecostal Church in Burlington, Ontario, Canada, shares insights into Pentecostalism's history, beliefs, and practices. He addresses common misconceptions within the charismatic movement and explores the experience of spiritual gifts, such as speaking in tongues.

Text ASK to 90398 to ask Pastor Mike a Bible Question.Text GOLIVE to 90398 to be notified when ASK Pastor Mike is LIVE.Find more ways to learn your Bible at https://focalpointministries.org/Have a Bible Question? Ask Pastor Mike! https://askpastormike.live/ To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/865/29

Watch Pastor Mike Fabarez from Ask Pastor Mike Live To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/865/29

Send us Fan MailIf Christians worship the same God, follow the same Savior, believe the same gospel, and read the same Bible, why are there so many denominations?In this episode of Ask A Pastor, Pastor Todd explores one of Christianity's most common questions by examining the theological, historical, cultural, and human factors that have shaped the denominational landscape throughout church history. From the Protestant Reformation to modern church movements, you'll discover why divisions have occurred, when they have been necessary, and when they've been fueled by pride, preference, or tradition rather than biblical conviction.More importantly, this conversation points us back to Scripture's vision for the Church: one body united under one Lord. While denominations can preserve important biblical convictions and strengthen ministry, our highest allegiance must never be to a denomination—it must always be to Jesus Christ.In this episode, you'll learn:Why denominations exist and how they developedThe difference between essential Christian doctrines and secondary issuesWhat the Bible teaches about unity, humility, and truthHow Christians can hold strong convictions without hostilityWhy our unity is one of the world's clearest pictures of the gospelWhether you've wondered why churches differ on baptism, spiritual gifts, church government, or worship styles—or you've struggled with division among Christians—this episode offers a biblical perspective on pursuing both truth and unity.As Psalm 133:1 reminds us, "Behold, how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity." The kingdom of God is far bigger than any denomination, and when believers love one another well, the world sees Jesus more clearly.Join us as we seek to answer life's biggest questions through the truth of God's Word.Support the show

Contact us. We'd love to serve youGrow in your ministry preparation through the FREE Practically Trained Pastors Cohort.Give financially to support the work of helping pastors thriveWrite a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Resources(03:20) Framing the Question: Do Pastors Need Seminary?(05:10) Biblical Foundations for Training(06:50) How Seminaries Assumed the Training Role(07:27) Jim's Training Story: Church-Based “Seminary”(10:00) Brian's Training Story: Mentors & “Informal M.Div.”(13:15) Serving at Southern Seminary Without a Seminary Degree(15:45) So, Is Seminary Required? Global & Historical Perspective(18:30) Who Really Needs Seminary? Denominations, Missions, Teaching(21:45) Credentials and Closed Doors(23:30) Seminary as Structure, Deadlines, and Motivation(26:05) The “Educational Bubble,” Enrollment Decline, & Competition(28:10) Tension: “You Need the Church” vs. “You Really Need Us”(29:40) Encouraging Smaller, Church-Connected Seminaries(31:15) Alternative Pathways & Practical Shepherding Cohorts(32:40) Encouragement to Non‑Seminary Pastors(34:45) Pastors, Don't Outsource Training Your Men(37:10) Final Word & Prayer

Contact us. We'd love to serve youGrow in your ministry preparation through the FREE Practically Trained Pastors Cohort.Give financially to support the work of helping pastors thriveWrite a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Resources(03:20) Framing the Question: Do Pastors Need Seminary?(05:10) Biblical Foundations for Training(06:50) How Seminaries Assumed the Training Role(07:27) Jim's Training Story: Church-Based “Seminary”(10:00) Brian's Training Story: Mentors & “Informal M.Div.”(13:15) Serving at Southern Seminary Without a Seminary Degree(15:45) So, Is Seminary Required? Global & Historical Perspective(18:30) Who Really Needs Seminary? Denominations, Missions, Teaching(21:45) Credentials and Closed Doors(23:30) Seminary as Structure, Deadlines, and Motivation(26:05) The “Educational Bubble,” Enrollment Decline, & Competition(28:10) Tension: “You Need the Church” vs. “You Really Need Us”(29:40) Encouraging Smaller, Church-Connected Seminaries(31:15) Alternative Pathways & Practical Shepherding Cohorts(32:40) Encouragement to Non‑Seminary Pastors(34:45) Pastors, Don't Outsource Training Your Men(37:10) Final Word & Prayer

Drop us a note about the podcast. Peter walks into a Gentile home and says the quiet part out loud: “God shows no favoritism.” That single line in Acts 10 collides with the way we sort people, trust institutions, and defend our favorite labels. We read the story of Cornelius and Peter straight through, then sit with the uncomfortable simplicity of the gospel: peace with God comes through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all, and forgiveness of sins is tied to His name, not ours. From there, we talk about the pressure to add “something extra” to salvation. Denominations, personalities, cultural credentials, even our own sense of being right can start to function like a backup plan. We push back on that instinct and ask what it does to our souls and to the people watching us. Along the way we connect the text to the Holy Spirit falling on Gentile believers, baptism, and why the early church's message keeps pointing to Christ alone. We also zoom out to everyday obedience with Colossians 3:18–21 and the hard truth that most of us cherry-pick Scripture when it clashes with modern assumptions about marriage and family. Finally, we bring in Proverbs 17 and an 1803 election sermon to argue that a nation's moral foundation cannot survive on shifting feelings and political whims. If you care about Acts 10, salvation, Christian marriage, and America's Christian heritage, this conversation is built to challenge you and sharpen you. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.#ElectionSermon#ChristianNation#AmericanPatriotSupport the showThe American Soul Podcasthttps://www.buzzsprout.com/1791934/subscribeCountryside Book Serieshttps://www.amazon.com/Countryside-Book-J-T-Cope-IV-ebook/dp/B00MPIXOB2 America's Christian Heritage Podcasthttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2622483

In this special summer series, Pastor Sam Rainer walks through six eras of American history and explains the church's impact in each era. During the 1840s and through the 1870s, the United States experienced a painful division, culminating in the Civil War. Churches and denominations were divided during this period as well. The answer to division is not pretending our differences do not exist. The answer is not institutional uniformity. The answer is being clothed in the righteousness and character of Christ.

Send us Fan MailHow often do you think about denominations? Is this the way Jesus meant for the church to be? Are we actually united without realizing it? Derek, Brad, and Alistair examine the pros and cons of denominations, poke at Rome a little, and pursue authentic catholicity.  —Mere Fidelity is a podcast from Mere Orthodoxy and is listener-supported. If you would like to support this work, become a Mere Orthodoxy Member today at http://mereorthodoxy.com/membership.Get 30% of the Baker Book of the Month, The Pursuit of Character: Recovering the Virtues, by going to: http://bakerbookhouse.com/pages/mere-fidelityRegister for Beeson Divinity School's 2026 Preaching Conference, July 14-16 in Birmingham, Alabama: https://www.samford.edu/beeson-divinity/preaching-institute/preaching-conference?utm_source=Mere+Orthodoxy&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=Preaching+Conference+2026

In this episode, you'll hear a Daily Reminder about Social Buddhism, which encourages us to take the Buddha's teachings as our guiding light every day.Thank You very much, Ji Kwang Dae Poep Sa Nim,hapchang

In honor of the 250th anniversary of the founding of America, Michael Horton, Bob Hiller, Walter Strickland, and Justin Holcomb explore the history of how their Reformational traditions (Reformed, Baptist, Lutheran, and Anglican) found their way to the United States. GET YOUR FREE SOLA NEWSPAPER A quarterly print publication featuring articles on theology, the historic creeds and confessions, and reflections for the Christian life, delivered straight to your mailbox. For free. FOLLOW US YouTube | Instagram | X/Twitter | Facebook | Newsletter WHO WE ARE Sola Media serves today's global church by producing resources for reformation grounded in the historic Christian faith. For over thirty-five years, Sola has walked alongside Christians in their faith, pointing away from novelty and ourselves, and toward Christ and his gospel as proclaimed in the Scriptures, articulated in the ancient Christian Creeds, and summarized in the confessions of the Protestant Reformation. Learn more: https://solamedia.org/

Are you really part of God's church? Not a church — but THE church, the church of the living God? In this devotion from Acts 2 and Acts 8 (KJV), Pastor Roderick Webster of Good News Baptist Church continues the series Words From The Word, examining undeniable evidence of salvation in the lives of early believers.You might be asking... What does it actually mean to be part of the church? Why did the early Christians sell their possessions for one another? Does baptism really matter if I already believe? What does it look like to live daily for God?Key points from this devotion:- Genuine salvation produces a changed attitude toward possessions — believers shared freely because everything belonged to the Lord- The early church met daily with one accord, and God added to the church daily because they were doing His program- Belief always comes before baptism — faith in Jesus Christ is the requirement, and baptism is the public confession of that faith- Acts 8 shows baptism by immersion — they went down into the water and came up out of the water- Denominations are like restaurants; the only church that truly matters is the one made up of all born-again believersIf this devotion encouraged you, please like, leave a comment, share it with someone who needs it, and subscribe for daily Words From The Word.#WordsFromTheWord #KJV #BibleDevotion #ChristianLiving #GoodNewsBaptistChurchStay connected with GNBC:

Sermon Notes: A FATHER'S LEGACY Preacher: Rev. Dr. Ebenezer Okronipa Main Scripture: 1 Corinthians 3:10–15 Cross-References: Matthew 16:18, Ephesians 2:20, John 15:16, Matthew 7:24–27 Core Theme: Understanding our identity as living building materials in God's Church, auditing the spiritual quality of our service, and learning to build sustainably upon the only true foundation—Jesus Christ. 1. Introduction: A Father's Legacy The service opened with a celebratory recognition of fathers, anchored by a moving personal poem titled "A Father's Legacy." A father is far more than a name or a presence; he is a shelter when storms arise, a steady hand under uncertain skies, and a silent sacrifice bearer. The Spiritual Parallel: A father plants what future generations reap, sowing dreams and deep truths. In the exact same way, spiritual leaders and believers are called to be builders who leave a permanent, fireproof legacy within the Kingdom of God. 2. The Scriptural Chain & Exposition Part I: The Blueprint and the Architect 1 Corinthians 3:10 "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it." "According to the grace..." Rev. Dr. Ebenezer Okronipa emphasized that building in the Kingdom is never about human talent, personal ambition, or ego. True kingdom building begins and ends strictly with the specific grace allocated to you by God. "As a wise master builder..." The Greek word used here is architecton (chief architect or master craftsman). Paul treats ministry and church work as a serious, heavy construction project—not a casual hobby. "Let each one take heed..." This is a strict apostolic warning. As a believer, you do not have the creative liberty to build your spiritual life or your church service however you feel like. There is a precise master blueprint to follow. Part II: The Non-Negotiable Foundation 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ." "No other foundation..." The Pastor hammered this point home: Christ is the Chief Cornerstone. Every wall, every department, and every individual life must align with Him. The Danger of False Foundations: He explicitly warned against building your Christian walk or church identity on structurally compromised, sandy foundations: Personality: Chasing a dynamic speaker or charismatic leader instead of anchoring your soul to Christ. Denominations or Traditions: Relying on a church name, its long-standing reputation, or systemic rituals rather than an active relationship with Jesus. Charisma or Trends: Chasing after superficial elements like miracles, signs, or mere social gatherings instead of the foundational, unchanging truth of the gospel. The Ultimate Reality: If your faith is built on a human being or a temporary environment, you will leave the church when they disappoint you. If Christ is your foundation, human offenses cannot move you. Part III: The Two Categories of Building Materials 1 Corinthians 3:12 "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw..." Rev. Dr. Ebenezer Okronipa contrasted these six materials into two distinct spiritual categories, challenging the congregation to audit what they are handing God during their weekly service: Material Group Spiritual Representation & Meaning Fire Endurance Quality Gold God's divine nature, His undeniable glory, and completely pure motives. Survives, Refines, & Purifies Silver Redemption, covenant value, and active, passionate soul-winning. Survives, Refines, & Purifies Precious Stones Spiritual maturity, a transformed character, and a faith tested through trials. Survives, Refines, & Purifies Wood Purely human effort, fleshly reliance, and doing God's work in your own strength. Turns Instantly to Ash Hay Shallow, rootless work—ministry or church service that has no hidden, deep roots in faith. Turns Instantly to Ash Straw / Stubble Superficial, skin-deep service done purely for "face value," performance, or outward show. Turns Instantly to Ash Part IV: The Manifestation and the Fiery Test 1 Corinthians 3:13 "each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is." "The Day will declare it..." There is an appointed day of testing. You can easily hide poor motives, hidden disobedience, or superficial service from the pastors and the congregation now, but the Day will completely strip away the facade. "Revealed by fire..." The Pastor noted that this isn't a gentle water test; it's a fiery test. Fire doesn't care about how loud you shouted on Sunday, how busy you looked in your department, or how long your name has been on the register. It only tests the intrinsic quality and sort of the material you used. Part V: Eternal Rewards vs. Scurrying Through the Fire 1 Corinthians 3:14–15 "If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." "He will receive a reward..." Building with gold, silver, and precious stones yields a permanent, eternal dividend. Every quiet sacrifice, every soul won, and every bit of character maturity under pressure is cataloged for reward. "He will suffer loss..." This is one of the most sobering warnings in the New Testament. A person can spend their entire natural life busy running around the church, but if it was built with wood, hay, and straw (bad attitudes, inconsistency, rebellion, or showing off), they will watch their life's work burn to absolute nothingness. "Yet so as through fire..." They might make it into heaven by the skin of their teeth (saved by grace), but they will enter empty-handed, smelling like smoke, with zero eternal rewards to present to the King. 3. The Supporting Scriptural Framework Rev. Dr. Ebenezer Okronipa built a seamless biblical map to prove that ministry is entirely about building the Church, cross-referencing these key texts: 1. The Prophetic Blueprint of the Church (Matthew 16:18) "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." The Revelation Rock: The Pastor explained that Jesus promised to build His Ecclessia (Church) not on Peter the fragile human being, but on the unshakeable rock of the revelation Peter spoke: that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. The Guarantee: He used this to encourage the congregation that because Christ Himself is the primary Builder, the gates of hell cannot overpower or out-build the Church. He playfully noted that we use the Greek word Ecclessia not just for spiritual deepness, but because it sounds beautiful—but its real, heavy meaning is the unstoppable, ruling assembly of God. 2. Structural Alignment with the Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20) "...having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone..." The Corporate Fabric: Apostles and prophets lay the foundational truths of doctrine, but Jesus Christ Himself is the Chief Cornerstone—the exact guide-stone that determines the trajectory, alignment, and structural fabric of the entire body. Any ministry, department, or individual life that doesn't align with the Cornerstone is structurally compromised. 3. The Structural Mandate to Bear Fruit (John 15:16) "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain..." The Ordination: In launching the Encounter Jesus outreach, the Pastor boomed this scripture to the house. He explained that "appointed" literally means you have been structurally programmed by God to win souls. Remaining Fruit: It is a failure of construction to just bring people to a service once; a wise master builder sets up sustainable systems (like the Micro Churches/Cell Groups) to ensure that the fruit remains, stabilizes, and grows to look exactly like Jesus. 4. Hearing vs. Doing (Matthew 7:24–27) The Pastor paraphrased the story of the Wise and Foolish Builders. He warned that if you hear these heavy words on Sunday but your bad attitude, inconsistency, or prayerlessness remains completely unchanged, you are actively building a spiritual house on loose sand. When the fiery tests and storms of life inevitably hit, a sand-built structure suffers an absolute, tragic collapse. 4. Practical Application: Launching "Encounter Jesus" The culmination of being a "Wise Master Builder" is putting the tools to work. Rev. Dr. Ebenezer Okronipa used this scriptural foundation to officially launch the "Encounter Jesus" outreach ministry, driving home a threefold mandate: Making Jesus Known: Moving beyond corporate comfort to actively win souls and bring people into the body of Christ. Bringing Healing to the Nations: Demonstrating the power of God over spiritual and physical infirmities. Establishing Systems: Discipling new converts through structural integration—moving them from the large corporate gathering into Micro Churches (Cell Groups/SPS), Foundation School, and departmental service. The Pastor's Direct Call to Action: The Challenge on Attitude: He boldly challenged the house regarding their department service. Serving with a bad attitude, treating church work with inconsistency, or walking in rebellion is equivalent to handing God wood, hay, and straw. The Challenge on Depth: True gold and precious stones are forged in secret. He urged the believers to move past a superficial, "surface-only" Sunday face and build a deep, unshakeable private prayer life and Word study life at home. The Demand for Partnership: Every wise builder must choose how they will lay stones upon this foundation. The Pastor called on every member to actively participate in three specific ways: Consistent Prayer: Interceding for the ground-breaking campaigns. Active Missionary Service: Registering as a missionary, usher, or volunteer to go out into the streets, communities, and villages. Financial Sponsorship: Partnering systematically with your finances to fund the heavy logistical costs of advancing the gospel, planting satellite fellowships, and running humanitarian reaches.

This week we dive into who has the right to say what Scripture says and means? For The Love Of Truth is a podcast created through the partnership of Veritas Reformed Baptist Church of West Monroe, LA and Grace Covenant Baptist Church of Monroe, LA. This podcast seeks to discuss current issues through the lens of a Confessional Baptist perspective seeking answers in Scripture and historic Baptist confessionalism.

This week we dive into who has the right to say what Scripture says and means? For The Love Of Truth is a podcast created through the partnership of Veritas Reformed Baptist Church of West Monroe, LA and Grace Covenant Baptist Church of Monroe, LA. This podcast seeks to discuss current issues through the lens of a Confessional Baptist perspective seeking answers in Scripture and historic Baptist confessionalism.

Mijal is back, and this week we're responding to your comments! Spurred on by awesome listeners like you, our reunited hosts ponder the dynamic relationship between Zionism and Reform Judaism, the question of Jewish continuity, the hot-button issue of affordability, and more. We have the best audience in the world, and we hope you'll keep commenting and writing to us at wonderingjews@unpackedmedia.org for the next Q&A episode. Mijal's article "The Future Is Sephardic" can be read here: https://sapirjournal.org/aspiration-ii/2026/the-future-is-sephardic/ Get in touch at WonderingJews@unpacked.media. Follow @wonderingjews on Instagram, and watch and subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ------------ This podcast is brought to you by Unpacked, an OpenDor Media brand. Subscribe to the Unpacked newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://unpacked.bio/22f7b4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ For other podcasts from Unpacked, check out:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jewish History Nerds⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Soulful Jewish Living⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Stars of David with Elon Gold ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unpacking Israeli History⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Welcome to the Grace in Focus podcast. Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr are continuing a discussion about Calvinism from the book, Whosoever Will. What are the major Calvinist denominations in […]

In the next episode of Denominations in Conversation Ben talks with the Rev. Dr. Ephraim Radner, professor emeritus of historical theology at Wycliffe College, about the history and identity of the Anglican Church. Radner traces the fascinating history of Anglicanism from Henry VIII to the formation of the Book of Common Prayer. They explore the role of prayer and Scripture, and how these shaped everyday life in England through the Reformation era.

In this week's episode, Stephen Grove and Jackson Sanford sit down with Senior Teaching Minister Rick Atchley to discuss eternal destiny and different denominations. They cover a variety of topics, including the rapture, heaven, and how to understand denominational differences. Reach out to us at nextgennow@thehills.org and find more information about The Hills Church at www.thehills.org.

Surveys indicate Christianity in America is on the grow. The surveys also indicate the growth is occurring among Gen-Z. So then, where is this spiritual growth actually occurring? For sure, it is not happening among the old, staid denominations where the church, for the most part, continues to be traditional, ritual, predictable, and in the words of one, boring. Renewal and revival of Christianity in America is coming primarily from non-denominational churches and spirit-filled Pentecostal movements. Those growth churches are offering experiential expressions of faith, real Biblical experiences different from and better than the traditional American protestant denominations. At one time, non-denominational Christian churches consisted of approximately 5% of American protestants (1972). Today, those growing non-denominational churches comprise of roughly 30% of all such protestant churches. Why is such growth occurring, wondered the pundits and especially the non-believers. The answer is simple. Those churches function under the direction and influence of the Holy Spirit where the real, vital, saving, forgiving Gospel of Jesus Christ is believed and preached. Pentecostal churches are growing. The Assemblies of God, among the many spirit-filled churches reported growth in: 1. CHURCH SERVICE ATTENDANCE 2. NEW MEMBERSHIP 3. CONVERSIONS AND SAVING EXPERIENCES 4. BAPTISMS 5. THE BUILDING OF NEW CHURCHES So many people, including the young from Gen-Z, want the real Christianity or nothing at all. Spirit-filled Pentecostal movements offer Christian reality, even as so many churches in denominations turn woke, liberal, social, even political in emphasis and so often replace the Gospel with social agendas. The church should be where the real Gospel is preached, where real spirit-led worship occurs, and where the soul is satisfied and blessed. Holiness and Pentecostal churches reported at least 4% growth in all the above categories, and these non-denominational churches far outperformed the old-line denominational churches. These non-denominational churches are “functionally charismatic” even if they do not describe themselves as Pentecostal. They do not belong to Assemblies of God or THE CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST, or foursquare, but their worship styles and theology clearly emphasize expressive worship, spiritual gifts, and direct encounters with God. The real Gospel, the Holy-Spirit-led worship characterizes the beliefs and the worship services of these growing non-denominational Christian churches. In years past, surveys indicate the younger generations (Gen-Z and more) were indifferent and turned off by Christianity and Christian worship. This may have been the case, but then came the growth of these non-denominational, spirit-filled, spiritually-experiential Christian churches, and therefore membership and involvement dramatically increased. The surveys indicate this younger, non-denominational church-goer and worshipper was significantly more diverse than many of the membership in the historic and traditional protestant denomination. These surveys indicated only 60% of the new non-denominational church worshippers where white. Many of the new worshippers were Hispanic, African American, or even Asian. This new spirit-filled church was truly the right example of diversity in race and ethnicity, equity and equality among all men and women in worship, and the inclusion of all (DEI) in worship led by the Holy Spirit, belief in and the preaching of the real Gospel, and where the Bible ruled. People today are hungry for the real Gospel, the real worship experience, for real Bible teaching. The real Gospel would have us as believers rejoice, be glad, be happy, be exuberant in our faith. The real Gospel, as Jesus said, would have us live life abundantly, emotionally, lovingly. These spirit-filled non-denominational churches offer this spiritual reality and more. The growth in non-denominational churches was incredible. In 2010, there were some 35,000 such churches and congregations. Today, there are 44,000 non-denominational church congregations in America, with an estimated 21 million members and worshipers. 21 MILLION soul-satisfied congregants and adherents. PRAISE THE LORD! Churches exist for one reason only: to proclaim Biblical truth, the real Gospel, the salvation experience, the forgiveness and reconciliation to God the Father, and to worship, all of which allow for direct encounters with the very God and the Son, Jesus Christ. These churches offer this and everything real in Scripture, which is why they are growing, and the growth has only just begun. PRAISE THE LORD!

If Christians worship the same God and follow the same Bible, why are there so many denominations? In this episode of Grace Bond Ministries, we discuss where denominations came from, why theology matters, the difference between essential and secondary doctrines, and how Christians can pursue both truth and unity. We also explore Baptist history, the Protestant Reformation, church creeds, and whether denominations help or hurt the church today.

In this episode of the Eyes on Jesus Podcast, Drew and Tim tackle one of the most divisive conversations in modern Christianity: false teachers, discernment, church culture, and the rise of “heresy hunter” content online. Right now, social media is flooded with clips calling pastors heretics, false teachers, or wolves—and many Christians are left wondering:What actually makes someone a false teacher?Is every bad sermon automatically heresy?Can a pastor say something wrong without being condemned?And what's the difference between biblical discernment and a critical spirit?This episode dives deep into:what scripture says about false teacherswhy context matters with online sermon clipshow church culture can unintentionally produce critical peoplethe dangers of outrage-based Christianityand why believers must know scripture for themselves instead of living off internet callout cultureDrew and Tim also share personal stories from ministry, discuss public Christian leaders like Joel Osteen, Steven Furtick, and Ravi Zacharias, and wrestle honestly with the tension between grace, truth, discernment, and accountability. At the center of the conversation is a simple reminder:Our eyes ultimately belong on Jesus—not internet controversies.

“I walked in and started to cry.” What happens when an Orthodox Divine Liturgy feels more real than anything you've known?One visit to an Orthodox Divine Liturgy can expose a hunger you did not know you had. Hannah describes walking into the church, catching the smell of incense, hearing the choir, seeing the priest with the censer, and suddenly fighting tears. It is not just emotion for its own sake. Something feels ancient, steady, and real enough to set off a relentless chain of questions about the Eastern Orthodox Church, worship, and what it means to actually be formed by faith.Always reforming sounds noble until you ask: reform into what? We talk Reformation fatigue, denominational confusion, and why Orthodoxy feels like “home” for many.Jeremy Jeremiah and Mario Andrew talk with Hannah and Brian about what it feels like to walk into an Orthodox church for the first time and realize something deeper is happening than a new “style” of worship. We follow their move from Protestant assumptions to Orthodox practices that feel like home, and we ask what happens when the Church is meant to hold on to us.• Hannah's first Divine Liturgy experience, from incense to tears to nonstop questions• Curiosity turning into daily research, conversations, and a fast moving sense of conviction• Brian's slower pace, his prayer for truth, and the desire to avoid false teaching• First Holy Week and Pascha, including the beauty and the reality of the marathon• Intentional prayer, written prayers, veiling, icons, saints, and learning to die to self• Denominations, ongoing reform, and why Protestant apologetics can feel like mental gymnasticsWe talk through what happens after that first encounter: the research spiral, the awkward first-timer moments, and the different speeds two people can move at while still walking the same direction. Hannah dives in headfirst, hunting for the “why” behind icons, long services, and Holy Tradition. Brian shares a more cautious posture shaped by prayer, asking God to “lead me in all truth,” and naming the fear many seekers feel about being misled by bad information or falling into false doctrine.Holy Week and Pascha become a turning point, not because everything gets easier, but because the Church's rhythm starts to make sense. We explore the intentionality behind Orthodox practices like written prayers, a prayer rule, fasting, confession, reverence for icons, and learning to “die to self” so prayer becomes real instead of rushed. Along the way, we wrestle with Reformation after Reformation, denominational confusion, and why defending every disagreement can feel like mental gymnastics.If you're exploring converting from Protestant to Orthodox, or you're simply trying to understand why Orthodoxy emphasizes embodied worship, mystery, and continuity, this conversation gives you language for the pull you may already feel. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review to help more people find Cloud of Witnesses.Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdhPlease prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses: https://www.patreon.com/c/CloudofWitnessesFind Cloud of Witnesses on Instagram, X.com, Facebook, and TikTok.Audio: https://cloudofwitnessesradio.buzzsprout.comPlease leave a comment with your thoughts!

In the wake of our Denominations series, many of you wrote to us asking "what about Chabad?" As a leading resource for all Jews, it makes perfect sense to consider how Chabad fits into the denominational puzzle of America. We're off this week, but Noam kicks us off with a fresh greeting and a few words about Chabad before re-introducing our episode from last summer with Rabbi YY Jacobson. We're getting ready to respond to more of your letters about the denominations series (as well as some other recent episodes). If you'd like to have your question considered for a special mailbag episode, don't forget to write to us at wonderingjews@unpacked.media or comment on our Instagram/YouTube pages. Get in touch at WonderingJews@unpacked.media. Follow @wonderingjews on Instagram, and watch and subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ------------ This podcast is brought to you by Unpacked, an OpenDor Media brand. Subscribe to the Unpacked newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://unpacked.bio/22f7b4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ For other podcasts from Unpacked, check out:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jewish History Nerds⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Soulful Jewish Living⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Stars of David with Elon Gold ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unpacking Israeli History⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

In the next episode of the Denominations in Conversation podcast series, Ben sits down with Dr. Anna Robbins, President of Acadia Divinity College, to discuss what it means to be a Baptist: Baptist ethics, views on Scripture, the role of baptism, and the autonomy of the church.Whether you're looking to learn more or just seeking more theological depth, join us for an insightful discussion.

Would you go to a psychic Olympics? Does psi have real-world benefits or is it just a way to make people feel like their special? Hakim Isler served 4 years in the Army as a psi op specialist in special operations forces, is a 6th degree blackbelt in Ninjitsu, a trained remote viewer under Joe McMoneagle himself. He's also the founder of the Psi Games, a family-friendly competition & conference where neuroscientists, consciousness researchers, & military trained remote viewers make up the lecture roster & psi practitioners ready to put their psychic skills to the test line up to compete.  In this episode we explore how developing your psi abilities may have deeply practical benefits, the ethics of psychic “powers,” preventing cult dynamics, when religion and psi clash & what to expect at the psi games 2026.Get 15% off your ticket to the Psi Games using code PG26INTROVERT15 If you liked this episode, you'll also like episode 314: SCIENCE & THE SUPERNATURAL: PROJECT STARGATE, EXPERIMENTAL METAPHYSICS & QUANTUM PHYSICS Guest:https://www.hakim-isler.com/https://psigamesinternational.com/ https://www.instagram.com/hakimisler/ https://www.facebook.com/Boss.kr74/ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61565002172093 https://www.youtube.com/@PsiGamesInternational  Sponsors: https://www.jordanharbinger.com/starterpacks/ https://www.historicpensacola.org/about-us/  01:07 — What “PSI” actually means03:36 — Is intuition a luxury or a lifeline?05:44 — The hidden cost of feeling separate07:50 — How PSI reduces fear09:12 — Is “extra sensory” actually just sensory?11:45 — Convenience vs human potential14:32 — Are psychic abilities intentionally demonized?15:16 — The ethics problem nobody talks about17:57 — Psyops, manipulation & control structures18:05 — PTSD after psychological operations training18:44 — MK Ultra, Tuskegee & algorithmic manipulation23:13 — The danger of hiding your gifts26:19 — What actually happens at the PSI Games34:22 — X-Men, Chronicle & psychic chaos35:32 — Why outsiders are drawn to PSI communities38:54 — Why openness may prevent cult dynamics40:26 — “I want to be a steward, not a king”44:12 — Beyond party tricks & bent spoons46:02 — The martial arts student Hakeem never forgot51:11 — Denominations, jargon & helping your neighbor51:42 — How to attend the PSI GamesRequest to join my private Facebook Group, MFR Curious Insiders: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1BAt3bpwJC/Follow me in all the places:https://www.meredithforreal.com/  https://www.instagram.com/the_curiousintrovert/ meredith@meredithforreal.comhttps://www.youtube.com/meredithforreal https://www.facebook.com/curiousintrovert

Send us a Text Message - include your name!In this Faith Over Breakfast podcast, Pastor Eric and Pastor Andy talk about why churches have such different personalities. What makes one church feel different from another? Is it theology, the pastor, the environment, the music, the denomination, or the way people interact with each other? Could it even be the parking lot?You'll have to listen to find out.Beyond The BeaconJoin Bishop Kevin Sweeney for inspired interviews with Catholics living out our faith!Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the showSupport"Faith Over Breakfast with Pastors Andy & Eric" is a weekly podcast where Pastors Andy and Eric come together over a imaginary delicious breakfast to talk about faith, food, sermons, culture, and more. In each episode, the pastors delve into thought-provoking topics and offer inspiring insights and practical guidance for those seeking to deepen their relationship with Jesus. With occasional guests joining the conversation, "Faith Over Breakfast with Pastors Andy & Eric" provides a unique perspective on what it means to live a life of faith in today's world. Whether you're a seasoned Christian or just starting on your faith journey, this podcast is the perfect companion for your morning routine. So join Pastors Andy and Eric each week as they explore the intersections of faith, food, and life over a delicious breakfast.Support:https://www.buzzsprout.com/97804/support

Falling out in the Spirit? Generational Curses? Flat earth? In this message, Lead Pastor Jamie Nunnally tackles questions submitted by the congregation. 1. If you lay hands on someone in prayer and that person falls out what do you do? 2. Flat earth debate among Christians: What is the point? 3. What is the difference between a generational curse and a generational cycle? Or are they the same? 4. Why does the church still use anointing oil? 5. Do you bless the tank before baptism services? 6. If Jesus said anyone who believes in Him will do the same works He has done, and even greater works, why don't we see or hear anymore about dead people being brought back to life?  7. What are the "churches" that pose as a Christian Denominations but are really false churches? What's the best way to minister to a Jehovah Witness?  8. Do you have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit? 9. When does sports obsession become an idol?  Are you trusting God with your questions?

Welcome to part 2 of our series “Life's Biggest Questions.” Today we are answering “If Christians are to be one, why are there so many denominations?” Open your Bible and follow along with Dr Willie Nolte.

Are you a Christian?; Under what law?; What's your direction? Mt 24:5 "Many"; Christ = Anointed; Mk 13:6; Lk 21:8; Striking accord; Strong delusion?; Personal savior?; Words vs deeds; Checklist; Mystery Babylon vs Kingdom of God; Idolatry = Covetous; Choosing a commander-in-chief; Tribe of Ruben; Acts 13:43; "Grace of God"?; Baptism with Holy Spirit; "Pure Religion"; Unspotted by the "world"; Exercising authority; Legal Charity; Dividing house-to-house; Sharing with the needy; Benefit addiction?; "Nicolaitans"; "Baalam"; Social welfare through Charity alone; Welfare weakening people; Brethren of Christ?; What are WE doing?; Mt 6:14; Prerequisites for being forgiven; Abortion; Making marriages work; Covetousness is not okay; Taking care of parents; What saved Israel?; Knowing Abraham, Moses and Jesus; Sacrifice?; Christian conflict in Rome; Tithing?; Misunderstanding "worship"; Jesus, "Seek, strive, persevere…"; Fire of God?; Public Religion; Calling no man on Earth "father"; Owing Caesar; "Eucharist"?; Jesus appointed a kingdom; Cursing your children; Degenerating society; Love requires sacrifice; Getting separate from the world?; Christian in belief only; 1 John 3:10; 1 Tim 3:7; Baptism with fire and Holy Spirit; Why gather?; Socialism; Opportunities to forgive; Right reason of Christ; John 3:16 - keep reading; Sharing the light; Laying down your life; Strengthening the poor; Denominations?; Being a doer of the word; Christ's commands; Seek His kingdom and His righteousness.

This week, Apologetics Canada dives back into its series, Denominations in Conversation. Ben sits down with Irish Catholic theologian, Dr. David Deane, Professor of Theology at Newman Theological College in Edmonton, AB, as they discuss some challenging and uncomfortable questions: What does it mean to be part of the “one true Church”? How do Roman Catholics understand the Protestant Reformation? And is it possible to find unity across the divide? Join us as we explore the role of tradition, and how we might faithfully engage across denominational lines.

Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist... where do these religious practices come from? What do they even mean? Zev Eleff, the president of Gratz College, is here to lay out the fascinating origins of denominations, and how they intersect with Protestantism and American culture. Plus: Zev, Mijal, and Noam reflect on the rich tapestry of Orthodox Judaism, and what its future might be. Get in touch at WonderingJews@unpacked.media. Follow @wonderingjews on Instagram, and watch and subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ------------ This podcast is brought to you by Unpacked, an OpenDor Media brand. Subscribe to the Unpacked newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://unpacked.bio/22f7b4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ For other podcasts from Unpacked, check out:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jewish History Nerds⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Soulful Jewish Living⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Stars of David with Elon Gold ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unpacking Israeli History⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Join hosts Mike, Dan, and Ben as they delve into church unity, confronting theological divisions, and balancing doctrine with the […]

What you produce belongs to you; Capitalism; Making no covenants; Limiting your rights; Just weights and measures; Real-time exchanges; Social welfare?; Altars; Freewill offerings; Police?; Abraham's altars; Settling disputes; Cities of refuge; Socialism; Owning people?; Shearing metaphor; Globalism = collective; Republic - Libera res publica; Frank marriage?; Early Driver's licenses; Notes; Tesserae; Jesus the capitalist; "Denominations"; Are you following Christ?; Human resources; Man's dominion; World Economic Forum; Puppetry?; "Soul"; New World Order; Babylon; Numbered citizens; No exercising authority; Modern "Israel"; Financial empires?; HJR 192; Seeking God's kingdom; Seeing the formula; Are you merchandise?; Legal title; Waiting and praying; Doing what Christ said; Corrupting religion; "Mystery Babylon"; What you need to do; Having darkened eyes; Waiting upon the Lord; Repentance; Fear not!; Choose the Way of God.

Using a recent study by Ryan Burge, Jess and Thom examine the sobering reality of demographic decline in two groups: the Southern Baptist Convention and non-denominational evangelical churches. The post Denominations That Are on Red Alert for Rapid Decline appeared first on Church Answers.

In the previous podcast, Jess and Thom examined the aging and dying denominations. In this podcast, they discuss the two youngest denominations. The post Two Denominations That Are Surprisingly Young appeared first on Church Answers.

In this mini-series, Jason and Duffey now discuss the commonly identified denomination, The Churches of Christ. Though they do not themselves identify as a denomination, it is nonetheless helpful for the series to see them as one. Due their own personal and family ties with the Churches of Christ, Cole and Jayna Middleton (members at Believers' Baptist Church) join the conversation to help bring clarity as the various issues are discussed. We pray this is a helpful conversation for all who listen.   For further study, see: Who are the Churches of Christ? (YouTube) - https://youtu.be/4bg6fKBaJlM?si=8DbcMfkttFpxAlV4  R. C. Sproul on Augustine and Pelagius - https://www.modernreformation.org/resources/articles/the-pelagian-captivity-of-the-church  Keith Mathison on the pelagian controversy - https://learn.ligonier.org/articles/the-first-controversy-augustine-pelagius  R. C. Sproul on Charles Finney and his pelagianism - https://learn.ligonier.org/devotionals/pelagian-captivity-church 

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we speak with Rabbis Eitan Webb and Ari Israel, head of a campus Chabad and Hillel respectively, about Jewish life on college campuses today. In this episode we discuss:Has there been a recent Jewish awakening on college campuses?How much attention should we pay to campus antisemitism?Are Chabad and Hillel able to work together on college campuses?Tune in to hear a conversation about what comes next for Jewish students in secular colleges. Interview begins at 18:01.Rabbi Eitan Webb co-founded the Princeton University Chabad House in 2002, with his wife Gitty. He has been a Jewish Chaplain at Princeton University since 2007. In addition to his Princeton activities, Eitan serves on the board of directors of the Chabad on Campus International Foundation, and of the Sinai Scholars Society. Rabbi Ari Israel serves as Maryland Hillel's Executive Director—a role he has held for more than 20 years. In addition to Rabbinic ordination, Ari has Master's degrees in Medieval Jewish History as well as Secondary Education. Ari is an adjunct professor at the University of Maryland where he teaches a Jewish Leadership course. References:No Country for Old Men (2007)Tanya by Rabbi Schneur Zalman of LiadiLikkutei Sichot - Volume 10This Is My God by Herman WoukFor more 18Forty:NEWSLETTER: 18forty.org/joinCALL: (212) 582-1840EMAIL: info@18forty.orgWEBSITE: 18forty.orgIG: @18fortyX: @18_fortyWhatsApp: join hereBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we speak with Mark Wildes, founder and director of Manhattan Jewish Experience, about Modern Orthodox outreach.In this episode we discuss:Why aren't more aspiring rabbis attracted to kiruv? How can we help people make the transition from outreach programs to the “real world”?How can we make the case for Shabbos for the masses? Tune in to hear a conversation about the “non-professional kiruv” of the Modern Orthodox community.Interview begins at 22:45.Rabbi Mark Wildes was ordained from Yeshiva University, but before becoming a rabbi, he received a JD from the Cardozo School of Law and a Masters in International Affairs from Columbia University. Since founding MJE 20 years ago, Rabbi Wildes has become one of America's most inspirational and dynamic Jewish educators. He lives with his wife Jill and their children Yosef, Ezra, Judah and Avigayil on the Upper West Side where they maintain a warm and welcoming home for all.References:Stop, in the Name of God: Why Honoring the Sabbath Will Transform Your Life by Charlie KirkThe Lonely Man of Faith by Joseph B. SoloveitchikThis Is My God by Herman Wouk“Is Modern Orthodox Kiruv Possible?” by Steven GotlibFor more 18Forty:NEWSLETTER: 18forty.org/joinCALL: (212) 582-1840EMAIL: info@18forty.orgWEBSITE: 18forty.orgIG: @18fortyX: @18_fortyWhatsApp: join hereBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.